From mmmm at nv.jakaranda.co.za  Thu Feb  1 09:16:39 2007
From: mmmm at nv.jakaranda.co.za (Nico)
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2007 10:16:39 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Killing a message in the delivery queue
Message-ID: <45C1A1E7.1060603@nv.jakaranda.co.za>

Hi,

I made a blooper and accepted a nasty message instead of deleting it
when moderating.

I've managed to stop Mailman before the mail  started to go out.  It is
somewhere in the Mailman Queue with other "good" messages.

How do I kill it from the queue?

Many thanks

Nico


From sascha.kaempf at arcor.de  Thu Feb  1 16:46:18 2007
From: sascha.kaempf at arcor.de (sascha.kaempf at arcor.de)
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 16:46:18 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2 Questions regarding Archiving
Message-ID: <4768192.1170344778864.JavaMail.ngmail@webmail11>

Hi list,

i have to questions regarding Mailman?s Archive.

1) Is there a possibiliy to "customize" the design of Mailman?s Archive-Page ? 

2) According to Mailman?s Documentation e-Mails are not archived if they have an "X-Archive: No"-Header. Can this function be disabled ? What if we want to archive all Mails, regardless of the value of X-Archive ?

Thanks in advance.

Kind regards
Sascha

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Feb  1 16:51:18 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 09:51:18 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2 Questions regarding Archiving
In-Reply-To: <4768192.1170344778864.JavaMail.ngmail@webmail11>
References: <4768192.1170344778864.JavaMail.ngmail@webmail11>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00702010751u422459d7v543a15e7cc7c00cb@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/1/07, sascha.kaempf at arcor.de <sascha.kaempf at arcor.de> wrote:
> 2) According to Mailman?s Documentation e-Mails are not archived if they have an
> "X-Archive: No"-Header. Can this function be disabled ? What if we want to archive all
> Mails, regardless of the value of X-Archive ?

About line 35 of Handlers/ToArchive.py, we find:

if msg.has_key('x-no-archive') or msg.get('x-archive', '').lower() == 'no':
    return

Commenting out these two lines will get what you want.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb  1 19:11:13 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 10:11:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Killing a message in the delivery queue
In-Reply-To: <45C1A1E7.1060603@nv.jakaranda.co.za>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702011011130796beb162a9@msapiro>

Nico wrote:
>
>I made a blooper and accepted a nasty message instead of deleting it
>when moderating.
>
>I've managed to stop Mailman before the mail  started to go out.  It is
>somewhere in the Mailman Queue with other "good" messages.
>
>How do I kill it from the queue?


If it is still in Mailman, there will be one or more queue entries
associated with it. The queues are the various subdirectories in
Mailman's qfiles/ directory. Depending on how much processing was
done, the message bay be in the qfiles/in/ queue or the qfiles/out/
queue. It may or may not also be in the qfiles/archive/ queue.

You need to look at the individual .pck file entries in the queues with
bin/show_qfiles or bin/dumpdb and identify the one(s) that contain
this message. Then you can just delete the unwanted file(s).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb  1 19:27:43 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 10:27:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2 Questions regarding Archiving
In-Reply-To: <4768192.1170344778864.JavaMail.ngmail@webmail11>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702011027430562d13ccafd@msapiro>

sascha.kaempf at arcor.de wrote:
>
>1) Is there a possibiliy to "customize" the design of Mailman's Archive-Page ? 


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>.



>2) According to Mailman's Documentation e-Mails are not archived if they have an "X-Archive: No"-Header. Can this function be disabled ? 


Patrick answered this in another reply.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From katie1 at mardiweb.com  Thu Feb  1 20:14:16 2007
From: katie1 at mardiweb.com (katie1 at mardiweb.com)
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 11:14:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Monthly Reminders
Message-ID: <4487.69.1.99.192.1170357256.squirrel@mardiweb.com>

I first installed Mailman with the name XXXXX at cohousing-corvallis.com.  I
have since killed that list and have another one active with a different
domain name.  I cancelled the list through the Cpanel on my hosting
service.  But, the three people who were on this list when it was
cancelled are getting monthly reminders.  The new maillist does not send
monthly reminders since I have turned off this option.  So, how do I get
rid of this artifact and kill these reminders from a list that no longer
exists?

Kate

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb  1 21:41:18 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 12:41:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Monthly Reminders
In-Reply-To: <4487.69.1.99.192.1170357256.squirrel@mardiweb.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702011241180437dc59de67@msapiro>

katie1 at mardiweb.com wrote:

>I first installed Mailman with the name XXXXX at cohousing-corvallis.com.  I
>have since killed that list and have another one active with a different
>domain name.  I cancelled the list through the Cpanel on my hosting
>service.  But, the three people who were on this list when it was
>cancelled are getting monthly reminders.  The new maillist does not send
>monthly reminders since I have turned off this option.  So, how do I get
>rid of this artifact and kill these reminders from a list that no longer
>exists?


Clearly the list exists or people wouldn't be getting reminders for it.
Have you tried going to
<http://www.cohousing-corvallis.com/mailman/admin/XXXXX_cohousing-corvallis.com>?

I bet you can go there and log in and delete the members. Also, the
members could follow the link in their reminders, log in and
unsubscribe themselves.

As to why the list hasn't been deleted when you think it has or how to
really delete it, these are cPanel questions. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb  1 22:15:30 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 13:15:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] double attachments
Message-ID: <PC176020070201131530067112dc147d@msapiro>

Back in December, there was a thread on duplicated jpeg images in posts
from Mailman
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-December/054870.html>.

I worked with the OP off line, and I diagnosed the problem as being a
cPanel problem. cPanel Mailman 2.1.9-cp1 has some modification to add
the msg_footer to a text/html part. The affected posts had
multipart/related parts which had a text/html part referencing one or
more image/jpeg parts.

Apparently, cPanel's modification to insert msg_footer in the text/html
part was also adding duplicate references to the images and also
duplicating the image/jpeg parts. I posted this issue to a cPanel
forum <http://forums.cpanel.net/search.php?searchid=1860274> in
December, but there have been no replies.

My suggested avoidance, since the affected list is an announce list, is
to remove msg_footer from the list and add it instead as a signature
to the post. It was not until yesterday that this was tested and
proved viable, but since it did work, I am posting this 'closure'

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From vancleef at lostwells.net  Fri Feb  2 07:25:47 2007
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (vancleef at lostwells.net)
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 23:25:47 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman installation on Solaris 10 crashes
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007013017573807188605df14@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200702020625.l126Pmi9012811@julie.lostwells.net>

A couple of weeks ago there were two or three posts about Mailman
crashing on install of the Japanese and Korean Codecs.  I swapped some
offlist E-mails with Barry Sapiro and told him that I would
investigate this for him when I did a fresh install of Solaris 10 
on a box to be used as a Mailman mail server.

Accordingly, this afternoon I did a default Jumpstart install of 
the Solaris 10 "entire package" on an Ultra 60 and added a gcc 3.3
development system from a Solaris Software Companion disk.  One 
additional item was to set the install default path to pick up 
needed directories that are not included in the Solaris base install.

PATH=$PATH:/usr/ccs/bin:/usr/sfw/bin:/usr/local/bin:/opt/sfw/bin

The last three directories in that order are significant.  

I did a build and install of Python 2.5 in /usr/local, and configured
Mailman with the needed mail and cgi gid statments, then ran a make.

Make install failed.  The key section in the installation output is
this:

    (cd ./$p ; umask 02 ; PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib
/usr/sfw/bin/p
ython setup.py --quiet install --install-lib
/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib  --ins
tall-purelib /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib  --install-data
/usr/local/mailman/pyt
honlib); \
done
/usr/sfw/lib/python2.3/distutils/dist.py:213: UserWarning: 'licence'
distribution option is deprecated; use 'license'
  warnings.warn(msg)
/usr/ucb/cc:  language optional software package not installed
error: command '/usr/sfw/lib/python2.3/pycc' failed with exit status 1
*** Error code 1
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `install-packages'
Current working directory /usr/local/src/mailman-2.1.9/misc

WHOOPS!  What is with the very clear "/opt/sfw/lib/python2.3" when I
just installed 2.5 and put it in /usr/local/bin?  

Yes, Sun has included an older version of Python in the Solaris 10
distribution.  To build and install with a locally-built Python, 
you have to put --with-python=/path/to/python as a flag to the
configure script.  Doing so produced a clean make and install.

Note that while the fact that the wrong version of Python is not
clearly evident until the installation crashes, the make step is also
done with the same version.  

As of this writing, I don't know what issues this raises for Mailman
at runtime.  Nor do I know what issues are raised if the offending 
packages are removed.  The actual version reported is 2.3.3, and
pkginfo includes the notation GNOME, so the runtime, at least, has
some involvement if you are using the gnome desktop.  

An additional (and very well-known) Solaris "gotcha" is the error line

/usr/ucb/cc:  language optional software package not installed

Evidently, the Solaris Python looks for a "cc" in the path.
/usr/ucb/cc is simply a stub that most Solaris sysadmins rename or
move after installation.  The Sun Studio 11 native compiler is
probably compatible with it, but there is still the objection to 
using an older Python.  

Hank

From daniel at ciens.ucv.ve  Fri Feb  2 14:25:42 2007
From: daniel at ciens.ucv.ve (Daniel Villavicencio)
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 09:25:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email Commands
Message-ID: <012b01c746cd$a3b81a20$103411ac@centro.ciens.ucv.ve>

Hi everyone, i?m newbie to linux and even more to mailman, and i would like to know how can i disable email commands from a specific
list, i know i can disable some aliasses for that list, but i would like to know if there is another way not so drastic

thanks.


PD: sorry about my english but i speak spanish....

From barry at python.org  Fri Feb  2 15:49:24 2007
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 09:49:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman installation on Solaris 10 crashes
In-Reply-To: <200702020625.l126Pmi9012811@julie.lostwells.net>
References: <200702020625.l126Pmi9012811@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <83E49038-5E70-4599-ADE6-8554E4D18784@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Feb 2, 2007, at 1:25 AM, vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:

> crashing on install of the Japanese and Korean Codecs.  I swapped some
> offlist E-mails with Barry Sapiro and told him that I would

I'm almost afraid to ask who "Barry Sapiro" is.  Is that some kind of  
mashup of me and Mark?  :)

> WHOOPS!  What is with the very clear "/opt/sfw/lib/python2.3" when I
> just installed 2.5 and put it in /usr/local/bin?

I would additionally make sure /usr/local/bin is first on your $PATH.

> An additional (and very well-known) Solaris "gotcha" is the error line
>
> /usr/ucb/cc:  language optional software package not installed
>
> Evidently, the Solaris Python looks for a "cc" in the path.
> /usr/ucb/cc is simply a stub that most Solaris sysadmins rename or
> move after installation.  The Sun Studio 11 native compiler is
> probably compatible with it, but there is still the objection to
> using an older Python.

It's actually probably the Makefile that's finding /usr/ucb/cc.   
Pretty well-known failure mode on Solaris.  Make sure a usable C  
compiler (either named gcc or cc <wink>) is first on your $PATH.

- -Barry

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin)

iQCVAwUBRcNPeXEjvBPtnXfVAQIYiQP/WF2jmsyk8wPVK8bwF4tWeD88RyEAjK0C
sPYZW2PhOqPNyppovUpf2idrxych+WUwnKimU2y0vcFEbLcwqCDQmdLQjNbClkEA
E+EK6Q2loPQiRMcTRTU9x04RIjNlVb4rdPlHW/FjSktTICXXFyNrPpYaBQ1bugtY
gu+81Nqj0OI=
=no6x
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From atrick at prin.edu  Fri Feb  2 17:56:15 2007
From: atrick at prin.edu (Allan Trick)
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 10:56:15 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail stuck in qfiles/in
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20070202105352.032f0528@mail.prin.edu>

I think I solved my own problem.  Instead of just restarting qrunner, 
I did a stop and then a start.  That did it.

The clue was when I ran
     ps auxww | egrep 'p[y]thon'
as FAQ 3.14 suggests, instead of there being eight processes there, 
there were only two.

So I'm back in business.  Any follow-up thoughts on why this happened?

Anyway, thanks!

Allan


From atrick at prin.edu  Fri Feb  2 17:45:23 2007
From: atrick at prin.edu (Allan Trick)
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 10:45:23 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail stuck in qfiles/in
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20070202102617.02d27770@mail.prin.edu>

Our Mailman 2.1.5 system (on a Red Hat Linux server w/sendmail) 
hasn't been working all week.  I just discovered it, and the first 
thing I did was ./mailmanctl restart ---

It appears to have done what I told it:

Feb 02 09:43:31 2007 (1541) Master watcher caught SIGINT.  Restarting.
Feb 02 09:43:31 2007 (1549) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGINT.  Stopping.
Feb 02 09:43:31 2007 (1549) RetryRunner qrunner exiting.
Feb 02 09:43:31 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 1549, sig: None, sts: 2, class: RetryRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Feb 02 09:43:31 2007 (6814) RetryRunner qrunner started.


Then I sent a message to list 'testlist2' - it appears to have been 
sent (this is from the maillog file):

Feb  2 10:22:52 www sm-mta[9248]: l12GMpDR009246: 
to="|/var/mailman/mail/mailman post testlist2", 
ctladdr=<testlist2 at prin.edu> (8/0), delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:00, 
mailer=prog, pri=30512, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


But it wasn't posted.  The last post to any list was:

Jan 29 20:09:51 2007 (29673) post to 2018 from 
angie.wohlfarth at prin.edu, size=3180, 
message-id=<B66B90CC472EF54C9BAEB1E98C9D7CE80104894E at ss-exc-01.principia.local>, 
success


There are 30 or so messages in qfiles/in waiting to be sent.  The 
oldest ones looked rather large, so I moved them out of that 
directory and sent another message to my testlist.  Still nothing.

Any suggestions?

Allan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb  2 18:09:58 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 09:09:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email Commands
In-Reply-To: <012b01c746cd$a3b81a20$103411ac@centro.ciens.ucv.ve>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702020909580125e08f37d7@msapiro>

Daniel Villavicencio wrote:

>Hi everyone, i'm newbie to linux and even more to mailman, and i would like to know how can i disable email commands from a specific
>list, i know i can disable some aliasses for that list, but i would like to know if there is another way not so drastic


Disabling the -request alias and if you want to disable subscription,
the -subscribe and -join aliases and if you want to disable
unsubscription (which I wouldn't recommend), the -unsubscribe and
-leave aliases is I think the *least* drastic way to disable email
commands for a single list only.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb  2 18:15:13 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 09:15:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail stuck in qfiles/in
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20070202105352.032f0528@mail.prin.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602007020209151307810ef87a1a@msapiro>

Allan Trick wrote:
>
>So I'm back in business.  Any follow-up thoughts on why this happened?


Look at Mailman's error and qrunner logs from the time that the lists
stopped for clues as to why the other seven qrunners died (or why they
all died and only RetryRunner was restarted).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From atrick at prin.edu  Fri Feb  2 18:55:09 2007
From: atrick at prin.edu (Allan Trick)
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 11:55:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail stuck in qfiles/in
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007020209151307810ef87a1a@msapiro>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20070202105352.032f0528@mail.prin.edu>
	<PC17602007020209151307810ef87a1a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20070202115239.032fe3c0@mail.prin.edu>

At 11:15 AM 2/2/2007, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Look at Mailman's error and qrunner logs from the time that the 
>lists stopped for clues as to why the other seven qrunners died (or 
>why they all died and only RetryRunner was restarted).

There's nothing in the error log.  But qrunner's might have a 
clue.  I'm not sure how to read this:

Jan 31 11:38:51 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 29673, sig: None, sts: 1, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 11:38:51 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 29273, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 11:38:51 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 29276, sig: None, sts: 1, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 11:38:51 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 1548, sig: None, sts: 1, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 11:38:51 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 24311, sig: None, sts: 1, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 11:38:51 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 1546, sig: None, sts: 1, class: NewsRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 11:38:51 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 1544, sig: None, sts: 1, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 11:38:51 2007 (18640) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Jan 31 11:38:51 2007 (18643) BounceRunner qrunner started.
Jan 31 11:38:51 2007 (18642) VirginRunner qrunner started.
Jan 31 11:38:51 2007 (18641) ArchRunner qrunner started.
Jan 31 11:38:51 2007 (18644) NewsRunner qrunner started.
Jan 31 11:38:51 2007 (18639) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
Jan 31 11:38:52 2007 (18645) CommandRunner qrunner started.
Jan 31 12:00:36 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 18639, sig: None, sts: 1, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:00:37 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26785, sig: None, sts: 1, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:00:37 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26786, sig: None, sts: 1, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:00:37 2007 (26787) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
Jan 31 12:00:37 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 18645, sig: None, sts: 1, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:00:37 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 18640, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:00:37 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 18641, sig: None, sts: 1, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:00:37 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 18642, sig: None, sts: 1, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:00:37 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 18643, sig: None, sts: 1, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:00:38 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26792, sig: None, sts: 1, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:00:38 2007 (26793) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Jan 31 12:00:38 2007 (26795) VirginRunner qrunner started.
Jan 31 12:00:38 2007 (26794) ArchRunner qrunner started.
Jan 31 12:00:38 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26797, sig: None, sts: 1, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:00:38 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26796, sig: None, sts: 1, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:00:38 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26801, sig: None, sts: 1, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:00:38 2007 (26798) CommandRunner qrunner started.
Jan 31 12:00:38 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26803, sig: None, sts: 1, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:00:38 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26804, sig: None, sts: 1, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:00:38 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26805, sig: None, sts: 1, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:00:41 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26806, sig: None, sts: 1, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:00:41 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26811, sig: None, sts: 127, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:00:41 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26806, sig: None, sts: 1, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:00:41 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26811, sig: None, sts: 127, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:00:42 2007 (1541) Qrunner BounceRunner reached maximum 
restart limit of 10, not restarting.
Jan 31 12:00:45 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26793, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:00:45 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26794, sig: None, sts: 1, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:00:45 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26787, sig: None, sts: 1, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:00:45 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26795, sig: None, sts: 1, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:00:45 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26798, sig: None, sts: 1, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:00:46 2007 (26843) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Jan 31 12:00:46 2007 (26845) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
Jan 31 12:00:46 2007 (26844) ArchRunner qrunner started.
Jan 31 12:00:46 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26846, sig: None, sts: 1, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:00:46 2007 (26847) CommandRunner qrunner started.
Jan 31 12:00:46 2007 (26848) VirginRunner qrunner started.
Jan 31 12:01:08 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26843, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:01:08 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 18644, sig: None, sts: 1, class: NewsRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:01:08 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26847, sig: None, sts: 1, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:01:08 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26844, sig: None, sts: 1, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:01:08 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26958, sig: None, sts: 1, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:01:08 2007 (26955) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Jan 31 12:01:08 2007 (26956) NewsRunner qrunner started.
Jan 31 12:01:08 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26957, sig: None, sts: 1, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:01:08 2007 (26959) ArchRunner qrunner started.
Jan 31 12:01:08 2007 (26962) CommandRunner qrunner started.
Jan 31 12:01:09 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26955, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:01:09 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26969, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:01:09 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26970, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:01:09 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26971, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:01:10 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26972, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Jan 31 12:01:10 2007 (1541) Qrunner IncomingRunner reached maximum 
restart limit of 10, not restarting.
Jan 31 12:01:10 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 26848, sig: None, sts: 1, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]

......

And it goes on and on like that.  Why would it not have been able to restart??

Thanks for any interpretation!

Allan 


From rx7-owner at rx7-world.net  Fri Feb  2 20:25:09 2007
From: rx7-owner at rx7-world.net (John)
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 11:25:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-member approval based on header.
Message-ID: <45C39015.5090701@rx7-world.net>

Has anyone implemented an automatic non-member approval based on a header value?

thanks,
John



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Feb  3 00:34:57 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 15:34:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] non-member approval based on header.
In-Reply-To: <45C39015.5090701@rx7-world.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702021534570390acc3b01f@msapiro>

John wrote:

>Has anyone implemented an automatic non-member approval based on a header value?


A couple of remarks.

You can't do this with header_filter_rules because the accept action
merely passes this check; it doesn't unconditionally accept the
message.

This is not hard to do with a custom handler. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.067.htp>
for information on installing such a handler. A skeleton of the
handler itself is simply

def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
    # Get the contents of the header (X-My-Header:)
    contents = msg['x-my-header']
    if not contents:
        # header not present or was empty - to distinguish these
        # test contents == None for header not present
        return
    # some test on contents here. To accept message set
    # msgdata['approved'] = 1
    return


This handler would need to be in the pipeline preceding Moderate. The
one caveat is it will also bypass all the holds in the Hold handler.
If this is an issue, you could set some new flag in msgdata and modify
Moderate to skip the membership test based on that flag.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Feb  3 02:31:13 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2007 17:31:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail stuck in qfiles/in
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20070202115239.032fe3c0@mail.prin.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702021731130812789dedb9@msapiro>

Allan Trick wrote:
>
>There's nothing in the error log.  But qrunner's might have a 
>clue.  I'm not sure how to read this:
>
>Jan 31 11:38:51 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 29673, sig: None, sts: 1, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]


This says OutgoingRunner quit with exit status 1 with no signal. This
in itself is not too informative, but ...
>Jan 31 11:38:51 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 29273, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 11:38:51 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 29276, sig: None, sts: 1, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 11:38:51 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 1548, sig: None, sts: 1, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 11:38:51 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 24311, sig: None, sts: 1, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 11:38:51 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 1546, sig: None, sts: 1, class: NewsRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 11:38:51 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 1544, sig: None, sts: 1, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 11:38:51 2007 (18640) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
>Jan 31 11:38:51 2007 (18643) BounceRunner qrunner started.
>Jan 31 11:38:51 2007 (18642) VirginRunner qrunner started.
>Jan 31 11:38:51 2007 (18641) ArchRunner qrunner started.
>Jan 31 11:38:51 2007 (18644) NewsRunner qrunner started.
>Jan 31 11:38:51 2007 (18639) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
>Jan 31 11:38:52 2007 (18645) CommandRunner qrunner started.


At 11:38:51+, every runner except RetryRunner quit and was restarted.
Then all seemed OK for about 22 minutes.


>Jan 31 12:00:36 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 18639, sig: None, sts: 1, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:00:37 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26785, sig: None, sts: 1, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:00:37 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26786, sig: None, sts: 1, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]


Then 3 Outgoing runners died. The one that was started 22 minutes ago
(pid 18639) and two others (pids 26785 and 26786). Perhaps 26785 died
before logging its 'started' message and 26786 was started and did the
same thing.


>Jan 31 12:00:37 2007 (26787) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
>Jan 31 12:00:37 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 18645, sig: None, sts: 1, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:00:37 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 18640, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:00:37 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 18641, sig: None, sts: 1, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:00:37 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 18642, sig: None, sts: 1, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:00:37 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 18643, sig: None, sts: 1, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:00:38 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26792, sig: None, sts: 1, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:00:38 2007 (26793) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
>Jan 31 12:00:38 2007 (26795) VirginRunner qrunner started.
>Jan 31 12:00:38 2007 (26794) ArchRunner qrunner started.
>Jan 31 12:00:38 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26797, sig: None, sts: 1, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:00:38 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26796, sig: None, sts: 1, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:00:38 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26801, sig: None, sts: 1, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:00:38 2007 (26798) CommandRunner qrunner started.
>Jan 31 12:00:38 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26803, sig: None, sts: 1, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:00:38 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26804, sig: None, sts: 1, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:00:38 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26805, sig: None, sts: 1, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:00:41 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26806, sig: None, sts: 1, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:00:41 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26811, sig: None, sts: 127, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:00:41 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26806, sig: None, sts: 1, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:00:41 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26811, sig: None, sts: 127, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:00:42 2007 (1541) Qrunner BounceRunner reached maximum 
>restart limit of 10, not restarting.
>Jan 31 12:00:45 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26793, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:00:45 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26794, sig: None, sts: 1, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:00:45 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26787, sig: None, sts: 1, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:00:45 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26795, sig: None, sts: 1, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:00:45 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26798, sig: None, sts: 1, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:00:46 2007 (26843) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
>Jan 31 12:00:46 2007 (26845) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
>Jan 31 12:00:46 2007 (26844) ArchRunner qrunner started.
>Jan 31 12:00:46 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26846, sig: None, sts: 1, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:00:46 2007 (26847) CommandRunner qrunner started.
>Jan 31 12:00:46 2007 (26848) VirginRunner qrunner started.
>Jan 31 12:01:08 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26843, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:01:08 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 18644, sig: None, sts: 1, class: NewsRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:01:08 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26847, sig: None, sts: 1, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:01:08 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26844, sig: None, sts: 1, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:01:08 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26958, sig: None, sts: 1, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:01:08 2007 (26955) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
>Jan 31 12:01:08 2007 (26956) NewsRunner qrunner started.
>Jan 31 12:01:08 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26957, sig: None, sts: 1, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:01:08 2007 (26959) ArchRunner qrunner started.
>Jan 31 12:01:08 2007 (26962) CommandRunner qrunner started.
>Jan 31 12:01:09 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26955, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:01:09 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26969, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:01:09 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26970, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:01:09 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26971, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:01:10 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26972, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Jan 31 12:01:10 2007 (1541) Qrunner IncomingRunner reached maximum 
>restart limit of 10, not restarting.
>Jan 31 12:01:10 2007 (1541) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 26848, sig: None, sts: 1, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>
>......
>
>And it goes on and on like that.  Why would it not have been able to restart??


The fact that beginning at 12:00:37, the runners are dying as fast as
they can be restarted, in some cases it seems before even logging
their 'started' message which they do before actually beginning to
process their queues, seems to point to some external OS condition as
the cause. It is curious that RetryRunner seems to be exempt.

Other than thinking it probably isn't an internal Mailman thing, but
rather an external OS thing, I don't have any ideas.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dhottinger at harrisonburg.k12.va.us  Sat Feb  3 13:51:18 2007
From: dhottinger at harrisonburg.k12.va.us (dhottinger at harrisonburg.k12.va.us)
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2007 07:51:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] permissions denied
Message-ID: <20070203075118.3ugwrakrso0wskgk@webmail.harrisonburg.k12.va.us>

I keep getting a permissions denied error on my mailman que file.
  ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
"||/var/mailman/mail/wrapper post divtech"
     (reason: 1)
     (expanded from: <divtech at harrisonburg.k12.va.us>)

    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/var/mailman/scripts/post", line 94, in ?
     main()
   File "/var/mailman/scripts/post", line 89, in main
     msg.Enqueue(mlist, tolist=1)
   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Message.py", line 176, in Enqueue
     dbfp = Utils.open_ex(dbfile, 'w')
   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 601, in open_ex
     fd = os.open(filename, flags, perms)
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:  
'/var/spool/mailman/qfiles/28b06832587685d7f1a7ebb30c4636a63e9b0a45.db'
554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1

I moved my mailman directory to a new mailserver.  The old one died.   
I pulled my files from my backup.  What permissions needs to be on the  
mailman qfiles?  Or do I have oter issues?  I read through the faq,  
and dont seem to be able to find anything although I am getting a  
little punch drunk from looking at terminal all night.

thanks

ddh

-- 
Dwayne Hottinger
Network Administrator
Harrisonburg City Public Schools


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Feb  3 16:20:19 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 07:20:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] permissions denied
In-Reply-To: <20070203075118.3ugwrakrso0wskgk@webmail.harrisonburg.k12.va.us>
Message-ID: <PC17602007020307201907963662e42f@msapiro>

dhottinger at harrisonburg.k12.va.us wrote:

>I keep getting a permissions denied error on my mailman que file.
>  ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
>"||/var/mailman/mail/wrapper post divtech"
>     (reason: 1)
>     (expanded from: <divtech at harrisonburg.k12.va.us>)
>
>    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/var/mailman/scripts/post", line 94, in ?
>     main()
>   File "/var/mailman/scripts/post", line 89, in main
>     msg.Enqueue(mlist, tolist=1)
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Message.py", line 176, in Enqueue
>     dbfp = Utils.open_ex(dbfile, 'w')
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 601, in open_ex
>     fd = os.open(filename, flags, perms)
>IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:  
>'/var/spool/mailman/qfiles/28b06832587685d7f1a7ebb30c4636a63e9b0a45.db'
>554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1
>
>I moved my mailman directory to a new mailserver.  The old one died.   
>I pulled my files from my backup.  What permissions needs to be on the  
>mailman qfiles?  Or do I have oter issues?  I read through the faq,  
>and dont seem to be able to find anything although I am getting a  
>little punch drunk from looking at terminal all night.


This appears to be a very old (2.0 vintage) Mailman, so I'm not certain
about this, but if you have Mailman's bin/check_perms, run

bin/check_perms -f

as root until it finds no errors.

Essentially, everything needs to be group 'mailman', and group
writable. In addition, /var/mailman/mail/wrapper (abd the other
wrappers in /var/mailman/cgi-bin) needs to be SETGID.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dhottinger at harrisonburg.k12.va.us  Sat Feb  3 16:59:00 2007
From: dhottinger at harrisonburg.k12.va.us (dhottinger at harrisonburg.k12.va.us)
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2007 10:59:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] permissions denied
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007020307201907963662e42f@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007020307201907963662e42f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20070203105900.pqz51ny99wc84cgc@webmail.harrisonburg.k12.va.us>

It is quite old.  I may end up reinstalling everything and  
repopulating the membership.  But, there are quite a few lists and  
quite a few members.  Id say around 70+ lists.

Quoting Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>:

> dhottinger at harrisonburg.k12.va.us wrote:
>
>> I keep getting a permissions denied error on my mailman que file.
>>  ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
>> "||/var/mailman/mail/wrapper post divtech"
>>     (reason: 1)
>>     (expanded from: <divtech at harrisonburg.k12.va.us>)
>>
>>    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "/var/mailman/scripts/post", line 94, in ?
>>     main()
>>   File "/var/mailman/scripts/post", line 89, in main
>>     msg.Enqueue(mlist, tolist=1)
>>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Message.py", line 176, in Enqueue
>>     dbfp = Utils.open_ex(dbfile, 'w')
>>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 601, in open_ex
>>     fd = os.open(filename, flags, perms)
>> IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>> '/var/spool/mailman/qfiles/28b06832587685d7f1a7ebb30c4636a63e9b0a45.db'
>> 554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1
>>
>> I moved my mailman directory to a new mailserver.  The old one died.
>> I pulled my files from my backup.  What permissions needs to be on the
>> mailman qfiles?  Or do I have oter issues?  I read through the faq,
>> and dont seem to be able to find anything although I am getting a
>> little punch drunk from looking at terminal all night.
>
>
> This appears to be a very old (2.0 vintage) Mailman, so I'm not certain
> about this, but if you have Mailman's bin/check_perms, run
>
> bin/check_perms -f
>
> as root until it finds no errors.
>
> Essentially, everything needs to be group 'mailman', and group
> writable. In addition, /var/mailman/mail/wrapper (abd the other
> wrappers in /var/mailman/cgi-bin) needs to be SETGID.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>



-- 
Dwayne Hottinger
Network Administrator
Harrisonburg City Public Schools


From dhottinger at harrisonburg.k12.va.us  Sat Feb  3 17:03:53 2007
From: dhottinger at harrisonburg.k12.va.us (dhottinger at harrisonburg.k12.va.us)
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2007 11:03:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] permissions denied
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007020307201907963662e42f@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007020307201907963662e42f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20070203110353.z536gfjlkwg44o80@webmail.harrisonburg.k12.va.us>

check_ perms comes back ok.

Quoting Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>:

> dhottinger at harrisonburg.k12.va.us wrote:
>
>> I keep getting a permissions denied error on my mailman que file.
>>  ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
>> "||/var/mailman/mail/wrapper post divtech"
>>     (reason: 1)
>>     (expanded from: <divtech at harrisonburg.k12.va.us>)
>>
>>    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "/var/mailman/scripts/post", line 94, in ?
>>     main()
>>   File "/var/mailman/scripts/post", line 89, in main
>>     msg.Enqueue(mlist, tolist=1)
>>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Message.py", line 176, in Enqueue
>>     dbfp = Utils.open_ex(dbfile, 'w')
>>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 601, in open_ex
>>     fd = os.open(filename, flags, perms)
>> IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>> '/var/spool/mailman/qfiles/28b06832587685d7f1a7ebb30c4636a63e9b0a45.db'
>> 554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1
>>
>> I moved my mailman directory to a new mailserver.  The old one died.
>> I pulled my files from my backup.  What permissions needs to be on the
>> mailman qfiles?  Or do I have oter issues?  I read through the faq,
>> and dont seem to be able to find anything although I am getting a
>> little punch drunk from looking at terminal all night.
>
>
> This appears to be a very old (2.0 vintage) Mailman, so I'm not certain
> about this, but if you have Mailman's bin/check_perms, run
>
> bin/check_perms -f
>
> as root until it finds no errors.
>
> Essentially, everything needs to be group 'mailman', and group
> writable. In addition, /var/mailman/mail/wrapper (abd the other
> wrappers in /var/mailman/cgi-bin) needs to be SETGID.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>



-- 
Dwayne Hottinger
Network Administrator
Harrisonburg City Public Schools


From vancleef at lostwells.net  Sat Feb  3 18:48:33 2007
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (vancleef at lostwells.net)
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 10:48:33 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman installation on Solaris 10 crashes
In-Reply-To: <83E49038-5E70-4599-ADE6-8554E4D18784@python.org>
Message-ID: <200702031748.l13HmXsq015456@julie.lostwells.net>

> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On Feb 2, 2007, at 1:25 AM, vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:
> 
> > crashing on install of the Japanese and Korean Codecs.  I swapped some
> > offlist E-mails with Barry Sapiro and told him that I would
> 
> I'm almost afraid to ask who "Barry Sapiro" is.  Is that some kind of  
> mashup of me and Mark?  :)
> 
And another "WHOOPS!"  Another over-the-hill geezer special.  But
since I saw the backside of the big 70 a while back, I suppose I'm
entitled to one once in a while.  

> > WHOOPS!  What is with the very clear "/opt/sfw/lib/python2.3" when I
> > just installed 2.5 and put it in /usr/local/bin?
> 
> I would additionally make sure /usr/local/bin is first on your $PATH.
> 
There is a great deal of discussion (and some religious fervor) on the
Solaris newsgroups about having (or refusing to have) a /usr/local
directory on a Solaris system.   The anti faction has some very strong
points.  Putting the /usr filesystem on its own filesystem mounted
read-only is a good security measure.  I bypass the arguments by
putting /usr/local on its own filesystem.  

A better PATH layout for Solaris 9 or 10 would probably end with 
/usr/ccs/bin:/usr/local/bin:/opt/sfw/bin:/usr/sfw/bin  
Those directories all have to be added locally to the Solaris
distribution defaults.  

Sun has moved to including more and more of what was known to Unix
developers as "the GNU suite" in Solaris in the /usr/sfw directory,
with some GNU things (bash, gzip) in /usr/bin.  Time was (Solaris
2.5.1) that the "GNU suite" was all add-on from packages on the bonus
software companion disk.  

What I'm working out is "a suitable layout for a Solaris 10
development system" that requires a minimum of jiggery-pokery for 
compiling various open source software packages.  The system that
actually runs Mailman in "production" is a different 
minimally-configured hardened-up Solaris box.  A lot of this is
OS-specific and site-specific, and probably discussion here should be
limited to getting Python and Mailman installed.    

> > An additional (and very well-known) Solaris "gotcha" is the error line
> >
> > /usr/ucb/cc:  language optional software package not installed
> >
> > Evidently, the Solaris Python looks for a "cc" in the path.
> > /usr/ucb/cc is simply a stub that most Solaris sysadmins rename or
> > move after installation.  The Sun Studio 11 native compiler is
> > probably compatible with it, but there is still the objection to
> > using an older Python.
> 
> It's actually probably the Makefile that's finding /usr/ucb/cc.   
> Pretty well-known failure mode on Solaris.  Make sure a usable C  
> compiler (either named gcc or cc <wink>) is first on your $PATH.
> 
No doubt.  What I posted was the result of some offlist discussions I
had with Mark about problems building Mailman on Solaris that were 
posted here a week or so ago.  I offered to investigate a few of these
on a fresh install of Solaris 10 11/06 before I had fully configured 
the box to my normal layout.  Ultimately, that box will be configured
to use the Sun development system (Studio 11, has cc and CC <wink>).    

There are decisions that a Solaris administrator has to make, such as
whether to download and compile sendmail, apache, and bind; or to use
the Sun distribution versions.  I think that the decision is clear 
about Python---download and build your own, and configure your system
so that it is the Python of choice on your site.  (I'll note in
passing that I didn't like the looks of the additional compiling in
the Python install, and am going to go back to revisit that).  

Hank 

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Sat Feb  3 21:37:55 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 14:37:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] separate mailman and web servers
In-Reply-To: <200701311457.01835.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>
References: <200701311457.01835.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00702031237p2a5a772frefb968f02ca124b8@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/31/07, Peter Matulis <pmatulis at sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Can someone explain to me how mailman and the web server can exist on
> separate machines?  I am new to mailman and I'm having a hard time
> understanding how mailman communicates with its web server.  I have a
> new client that connects to an external web server to add list members
> but mailman (and postfix) runs on a local system.

I believe this would have to work with Mailman acting upon and reading
from files that are stored in such a way that the external web server
can access them. This means:

(a) The files are stored on the Mailman server, and the web server
accesses them through something like NFS.
(b) The files are stored on the web server, and the mailman server
accesses them through something like NFS.
(c) The files are stored in a third server, and both the web server
and the mailman server access them through something like NFS.

> Any pointers on how postfix fits into this communication are also
> appreciated.  The online docs at list.org for Site Administrators do
> not explain much.
Postfix is used for receiving mail (which is then shunted to Mailman
for processing, as appropriate), and for delivering mail (which is
generated by Mailman, and sent by postfix to list recipients.)
Imagine an arrangements with people: Mailman is responsible for
accepting pieces of paper ("emails") and photocopying them. Postfix
brings Mailman the papers initially, and carries the photocopies away.

> What my client appears to have is a simple diffusion setup.  They use it
> as a means to send info to multiple people.  So members do not
> contribute.
This is fairly standard, and referred to as an 'announce-only' list.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From pmatulis at sympatico.ca  Sat Feb  3 22:05:14 2007
From: pmatulis at sympatico.ca (Peter)
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 16:05:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] separate mailman and web servers
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00702031237p2a5a772frefb968f02ca124b8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200701311457.01835.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>
	<6fbe3da00702031237p2a5a772frefb968f02ca124b8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200702031605.15047.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>

Le Samedi 3 F?vrier 2007 15:37, Patrick Bogen a ?crit?:
> On 1/31/07, Peter Matulis <pmatulis at sympatico.ca> wrote:
> > Can someone explain to me how mailman and the web server can exist
> > on separate machines?  I am new to mailman and I'm having a hard
> > time understanding how mailman communicates with its web server.  I
> > have a new client that connects to an external web server to add
> > list members but mailman (and postfix) runs on a local system.
>
> I believe this would have to work with Mailman acting upon and
> reading from files that are stored in such a way that the external
> web server can access them. This means:
>
> (a) The files are stored on the Mailman server, and the web server
> accesses them through something like NFS.
> (b) The files are stored on the web server, and the mailman server
> accesses them through something like NFS.
> (c) The files are stored in a third server, and both the web server
> and the mailman server access them through something like NFS.

No, the web server is on the internet and the mailman server is on the 
lan.

PM

From barry at python.org  Sat Feb  3 23:57:46 2007
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 17:57:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] My new job
Message-ID: <EC6E6DA9-14A9-4645-B32A-B43BC41134AA@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hello everyone,

I just wanted to drop a quick note to let you know that I have  
started working for Canonical, the folks who distribute Ubuntu Linux  
and develop the Launchpad service for distributed open source  
development.

I'm quite excited to be working for Canonical.  They are a Python and  
Zope shop, very open source friendly, and based on Linux, so I'm  
working in an environment that's both familiar and fun.  They're also  
a distributed company, without traditional offices, but with many  
folks working all over the world. They're also hiring <wink, wink>. :)

While this is good for Barry (and hopefully good for Canonical :), I  
know you're thinking, "what does this mean for Mailman?"  Well, I'm  
glad you asked!

Part of my official duties will be to integrate Mailman with  
Launchpad so as to enable more powerful communication patterns among  
members of a distributed development team.  While I won't be  
spending /all/ of my time on Mailman, it will be getting some  
official love.  I hope that this will help move the current  
development branch closer to a release some time later this year.  
Other than that, not much will really change.  Mailman is and will  
always be released under the GPL, and it will continue to be a GNU  
project.

If you have any questions or concerns, please send them directly to  
me.  I will attempt to answer them as best I can, and if there are  
common themes, I'll post updates here.

Thanks for your support and keep on delivering with Mailman!

- -Barry

Here are some related links:

     http://www.canonical.com
     http://www.ubuntu.com
     http://launchpad.net

P.S. I'll be at PyCon this year so if you're coming too, please say hi!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin)

iQCVAwUBRcUTb3EjvBPtnXfVAQIQKgP/XFVeeDBn6QVXkE9oK1YJxyrLZZET5GxT
TAvTJgfndkcWPuUpbC5D6hcpDNa6sfIgJnR3enoW7MgKpOAtIXTuXqPpNiFMBVT2
qUhlDHhwYzdJWWyzI/oXGRvt0lMqqA69Iu7A6DAKrgksBB128V/mYxTfv8BPmF4W
uASb/9MkmAQ=
=h+IQ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Sun Feb  4 02:49:10 2007
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 10:49:10 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] My new job
In-Reply-To: <EC6E6DA9-14A9-4645-B32A-B43BC41134AA@python.org>
References: <EC6E6DA9-14A9-4645-B32A-B43BC41134AA@python.org>
Message-ID: <45C53B96.4010907@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Congratulations, Barry!

I'm very happy to hear that you can spend more time on Mailman.

I also learned by quick search that Canonical is founded by this nice 
guy. :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Shuttleworth


Barry Warsaw wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> I just wanted to drop a quick note to let you know that I have  
> started working for Canonical, the folks who distribute Ubuntu Linux  
> and develop the Launchpad service for distributed open source  
> development.
> 
> I'm quite excited to be working for Canonical.  They are a Python and  
> Zope shop, very open source friendly, and based on Linux, so I'm  
> working in an environment that's both familiar and fun.  They're also  
> a distributed company, without traditional offices, but with many  
> folks working all over the world. They're also hiring <wink, wink>. :)
> 
> While this is good for Barry (and hopefully good for Canonical :), I  
> know you're thinking, "what does this mean for Mailman?"  Well, I'm  
> glad you asked!
> 
> Part of my official duties will be to integrate Mailman with  
> Launchpad so as to enable more powerful communication patterns among  
> members of a distributed development team.  While I won't be  
> spending /all/ of my time on Mailman, it will be getting some  
> official love.  I hope that this will help move the current  
> development branch closer to a release some time later this year.  
> Other than that, not much will really change.  Mailman is and will  
> always be released under the GPL, and it will continue to be a GNU  
> project.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns, please send them directly to  
> me.  I will attempt to answer them as best I can, and if there are  
> common themes, I'll post updates here.
> 
> Thanks for your support and keep on delivering with Mailman!
> 
> - -Barry
> 
> Here are some related links:
> 
>      http://www.canonical.com
>      http://www.ubuntu.com
>      http://launchpad.net
> 
> P.S. I'll be at PyCon this year so if you're coming too, please say hi!
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin)
> 
> iQCVAwUBRcUTb3EjvBPtnXfVAQIQKgP/XFVeeDBn6QVXkE9oK1YJxyrLZZET5GxT
> TAvTJgfndkcWPuUpbC5D6hcpDNa6sfIgJnR3enoW7MgKpOAtIXTuXqPpNiFMBVT2
> qUhlDHhwYzdJWWyzI/oXGRvt0lMqqA69Iu7A6DAKrgksBB128V/mYxTfv8BPmF4W
> uASb/9MkmAQ=
> =h+IQ
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/

From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb  4 04:36:02 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 19:36:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] permissions denied
In-Reply-To: <20070203105900.pqz51ny99wc84cgc@webmail.harrisonburg.k12.va.us>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702031936020546c95aa904@msapiro>

dhottinger at harrisonburg.k12.va.us wrote:

>It is quite old.  I may end up reinstalling everything and
>repopulating the membership.  But, there are quite a few lists and
>quite a few members.  Id say around 70+ lists.


You should be able to update your existing installation and maintain
your existing lists. The normal update process will update list data
as necessary and preserve membership and map options from old to new.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb  4 04:47:04 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 19:47:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] permissions denied
In-Reply-To: <20070203110353.z536gfjlkwg44o80@webmail.harrisonburg.k12.va.us>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702031947040265c95aa7ed@msapiro>

dhottinger at harrisonburg.k12.va.us wrote:

>check_ perms comes back ok.


Then I'm not sure what's happening, but

>>
>>> I keep getting a permissions denied error on my mailman que file.
>>>  ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
>>> "||/var/mailman/mail/wrapper post divtech"
>>>     (reason: 1)
>>>     (expanded from: <divtech at harrisonburg.k12.va.us>)


/var/mailman/mail/wrapper should be SETGID - normally its permissions
are 2755 and its user:group are root:mailman. The owner need not be
root, it is usually whatever user installed mailman.


>>> IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>>> '/var/spool/mailman/qfiles/28b06832587685d7f1a7ebb30c4636a63e9b0a45.db'
>>> 554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1


And the directory /var/spool/mailman/qfiles/ needs to be writable by
the above group (mailman or ?). Normally, /var/spool/mailman and all
its subordinate directories will have permissions 2775 and user:group
root:mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb  4 04:50:21 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2007 19:50:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] separate mailman and web servers
In-Reply-To: <200702031605.15047.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>
References: <200701311457.01835.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>	<6fbe3da00702031237p2a5a772frefb968f02ca124b8@mail.gmail.com>
	<200702031605.15047.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <45C557FD.7040301@value.net>

Peter wrote:
> Le Samedi 3 F?vrier 2007 15:37, Patrick Bogen a ?crit :
>> On 1/31/07, Peter Matulis <pmatulis at sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>> Can someone explain to me how mailman and the web server can exist
>>> on separate machines?  I am new to mailman and I'm having a hard
>>> time understanding how mailman communicates with its web server.  I
>>> have a new client that connects to an external web server to add
>>> list members but mailman (and postfix) runs on a local system.
>> I believe this would have to work with Mailman acting upon and
>> reading from files that are stored in such a way that the external
>> web server can access them. This means:
>>
>> (a) The files are stored on the Mailman server, and the web server
>> accesses them through something like NFS.
>> (b) The files are stored on the web server, and the mailman server
>> accesses them through something like NFS.
>> (c) The files are stored in a third server, and both the web server
>> and the mailman server access them through something like NFS.
> 
> No, the web server is on the internet and the mailman server is on the 
> lan.


I'm not sure how the fact that one machine is 'on the internet' and the
other is 'on the lan' relates to Patrick's answer, so let's go back to
your original question.

Mailman's web pages are built by CGIs which access basic Mailman
classes, methods and functions defined in a set of Mailman modules.
These classes, methods and functions access various Mailman data. Most
of this is the list's configuration and membership which is normally a
Mailman list object saved as a Python pickle in
/some/path/to/lists/<listname>/config.pck.

Mailman's email processing is done by a set of qrunner processes
accessing the same Modules and data as above. There is one (or possibly
more) qrunner process for each queue - in, out, archive, commands,
bounces, news, retry and virgin.

Incoming mail is normally piped by the incoming MTA to a wrapper which
invokes a script to store the message in a queue to be processed by one
of the qrunners.

If both the web pages and the lists are accessing and updating 'live'
data, and the web server and the qrunners are not on the same machine,
they must be accessing the same list data via some file sharing scheme.
Normally, they would also access the same Mailman modules, but this
isn't necessary.

If the web is used only for inquiry and not update, it could be
operating on copies which are updated periodically, but if the web
interface is used to make any changes, both it and the qrunners must
access the same data and queues.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From artd at nasioncom.net  Sun Feb  4 08:22:09 2007
From: artd at nasioncom.net (artd)
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 15:22:09 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Announce] My new job
In-Reply-To: <EC6E6DA9-14A9-4645-B32A-B43BC41134AA@python.org>
References: <EC6E6DA9-14A9-4645-B32A-B43BC41134AA@python.org>
Message-ID: <45C589A1.5040008@nasioncom.net>

Hello Barry - congratulations on your move but am also relieved that you 
are not leaving Mailman.

Best wishes with you new work!

Aru Rasappan
Malaysia

Barry Warsaw wrote:

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>Hello everyone,
>
>I just wanted to drop a quick note to let you know that I have  
>started working for Canonical, the folks who distribute Ubuntu Linux  
>and develop the Launchpad service for distributed open source  
>development.
>  
>
(Truncated)


From khj at be.cs.appstate.edu  Sun Feb  4 16:43:44 2007
From: khj at be.cs.appstate.edu (Kenneth Jacker)
Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2007 10:43:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] OT:  Firefox Crashing on Admin Pages
In-Reply-To: <200701161609.l0GG92mY008436@bronze.lostwells.net> (Hank van
	Cleef's message of "Tue, 16 Jan 2007 09:09:02 -0700 (MST)")
References: <200701161609.l0GG92mY008436@bronze.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <87sldmc4i7.fsf@be.cs.appstate.edu>

Hank:

Just thought I'd let you know that recent updates to Firefox and
extensions (and maybe something else) solved the problem of FF
crashing on Mm admin pages.  I can again access those pages without
problems ...

Thanks for your ideas to fix it as well!

  -Kenneth


From vancleef at lostwells.net  Sun Feb  4 19:40:08 2007
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (vancleef at lostwells.net)
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 11:40:08 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman user account and login
Message-ID: <200702041840.l14Ie8eD010225@julie.lostwells.net>

I thought I'd pose this question to the list.   

The mailman installation manual seems to imply that the mailman
account should be added with no ability to log in to it.  I translated
what appeared to me to be the sense of the line given to Solaris.

However, after having gone through several fire drills of resetting
file owner from root to mailman, I've set the account up with the 
directory /usr/local/mailman and "NP" in the /etc/shadow file.  
This allows me to su - mailman from root, but not to get a login
from anywhere else.  This is the same setup as is used for other 
Solaris "blind" accounts.  

Is there any real reason not to use the account this way?  I'm aware
that Mailman security is based on group identity, not user, but 
external programs such as htdig running under cron need to have 
uid mailman in files it writes to or to be set up as a mailman-uid
program.  My personal preference is to set the needed uid's in the
mailman runtime tree.

Hank

From pmatulis at sympatico.ca  Mon Feb  5 02:51:27 2007
From: pmatulis at sympatico.ca (Peter)
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 20:51:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] separate mailman and web servers
In-Reply-To: <45C557FD.7040301@value.net>
References: <200701311457.01835.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>
	<200702031605.15047.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>
	<45C557FD.7040301@value.net>
Message-ID: <200702042051.27928.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>

Le Samedi 3 F?vrier 2007 22:50, Mark Sapiro a ?crit?:
> Peter wrote:
> > Le Samedi 3 F?vrier 2007 15:37, Patrick Bogen a ?crit :
> >> On 1/31/07, Peter Matulis <pmatulis at sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >>> Can someone explain to me how mailman and the web server can
> >>> exist on separate machines?  I am new to mailman and I'm having a
> >>> hard time understanding how mailman communicates with its web
> >>> server.  I have a new client that connects to an external web
> >>> server to add list members but mailman (and postfix) runs on a
> >>> local system.
> >>
> >> I believe this would have to work with Mailman acting upon and
> >> reading from files that are stored in such a way that the external
> >> web server can access them. This means:
> >>
> >> (a) The files are stored on the Mailman server, and the web server
> >> accesses them through something like NFS.
> >> (b) The files are stored on the web server, and the mailman server
> >> accesses them through something like NFS.
> >> (c) The files are stored in a third server, and both the web
> >> server and the mailman server access them through something like
> >> NFS.
> >
> > No, the web server is on the internet and the mailman server is on
> > the lan.

Thank you for this informative reply.

> I'm not sure how the fact that one machine is 'on the internet' and
> the other is 'on the lan' relates to Patrick's answer, so let's go
> back to your original question.

Well he is mentioning NFS so it sounded like he presumed both servers 
were on the internal lan.

> Mailman's web pages are built by CGIs which access basic Mailman
> classes, methods and functions defined in a set of Mailman modules.
> These classes, methods and functions access various Mailman data.
> Most of this is the list's configuration and membership which is
> normally a Mailman list object saved as a Python pickle in
> /some/path/to/lists/<listname>/config.pck.

Ok.

> Mailman's email processing is done by a set of qrunner processes
> accessing the same Modules and data as above. There is one (or
> possibly more) qrunner process for each queue - in, out, archive,
> commands, bounces, news, retry and virgin.

Ok.

> Incoming mail is normally piped by the incoming MTA to a wrapper
> which invokes a script to store the message in a queue to be
> processed by one of the qrunners.

Somehow Postfix on my lan must have this wrapper configured to talk to 
the Mailman also running on the localhost.

> If both the web pages and the lists are accessing and updating 'live'
> data, and the web server and the qrunners are not on the same
> machine, they must be accessing the same list data via some file
> sharing scheme. Normally, they would also access the same Mailman
> modules, but this isn't necessary.

There must be some synchronization happening somewhere because changes 
are being made on the web server.

> If the web is used only for inquiry and not update, it could be
> operating on copies which are updated periodically, but if the web
> interface is used to make any changes, both it and the qrunners must
> access the same data and queues.

The client has told me that they access the web server to make changes.

PM

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb  5 04:29:55 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 19:29:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] separate mailman and web servers
In-Reply-To: <200702042051.27928.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702041929550296b9817ebf@msapiro>

Peter wrote:
>
>> Incoming mail is normally piped by the incoming MTA to a wrapper
>> which invokes a script to store the message in a queue to be
>> processed by one of the qrunners.
>
>Somehow Postfix on my lan must have this wrapper configured to talk to
>the Mailman also running on the localhost.


Normally in this situation (Postfix and Mailman on the same machine),
Postfix has a set of aliases for each list address that cause it to
pipe the incoming list mail to Mailman's mail wrapper with the
appropriate 'action' and listname arguments. Often, with Postfix,
these aliases are in a file of Mailman aliases maintained by Mailman.


>> If both the web pages and the lists are accessing and updating 'live'
>> data, and the web server and the qrunners are not on the same
>> machine, they must be accessing the same list data via some file
>> sharing scheme. Normally, they would also access the same Mailman
>> modules, but this isn't necessary.
>
>There must be some synchronization happening somewhere because changes
>are being made on the web server.


Yes, and normally, this is done through some kind of shared file system
so both the web server and the Mailman's qrunners are actually
accessing the same files.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dclark at pobox.com  Mon Feb  5 18:01:43 2007
From: dclark at pobox.com (Daniel Clark)
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 12:01:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Editing values in a lists's config.pck file?
Message-ID: <5422d5e60702050901ve9f5dd6hfc1266903f86de2d@mail.gmail.com>

I need to change the gate_news watermark on one of my mailing lists,
as it got incremented without a message actually being gatewayed from
the usenet newsgroup to the mailing list (because of something to do
with the "list" user's password having expired and cron).

I am using mailman 2.1.5-8sarge5.

I found that this information is contained in the list "config.pck" file:

# /var/lib/mailman/bin/dumpdb /var/lib/mailman/lists/<listname>/config.pck \
| grep -i watermark
    'usenet_watermark': 10,

What I want to do here is change usenet_watermark to 9; however I
haven't been able to find any information on how to modify the
config.pck file - anyone know how that would be done?

Thanks,
-- 
Daniel Clark # http://dclark.us # http://opensysadmin.com

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb  5 18:17:20 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 09:17:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Editing values in a lists's config.pck file?
In-Reply-To: <5422d5e60702050901ve9f5dd6hfc1266903f86de2d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702050917200500b5c40028@msapiro>

Daniel Clark wrote:
>
># /var/lib/mailman/bin/dumpdb /var/lib/mailman/lists/<listname>/config.pck \
>| grep -i watermark
>    'usenet_watermark': 10,
>
>What I want to do here is change usenet_watermark to 9; however I
>haven't been able to find any information on how to modify the
>config.pck file - anyone know how that would be done?


# /var/lib/mailman/bin/withlist -l <listname>
Loading list <listname> (locked)
The variable `m' is the <listname> MailList instance
>>>m.usenet_watermark = 9
>>>m.Save()
>>>                   control-D to quit


See /var/lib/mailman/bin/withlist --help

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dclark at pobox.com  Mon Feb  5 18:39:12 2007
From: dclark at pobox.com (Daniel Clark)
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 12:39:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Editing values in a lists's config.pck file?
In-Reply-To: <5422d5e60702050901ve9f5dd6hfc1266903f86de2d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5422d5e60702050901ve9f5dd6hfc1266903f86de2d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5422d5e60702050939k54fe74e4w4ab4e662b188c5fe@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/5/07, Daniel Clark <dclark at pobox.com> wrote:
> I need to change the gate_news watermark on one of my mailing lists,
> as it got incremented without a message actually being gatewayed from
> the usenet newsgroup to the mailing list (because of something to do
> with the "list" user's password having expired and cron).
>
> I am using mailman 2.1.5-8sarge5.
>
> I found that this information is contained in the list "config.pck" file:
>
> # /var/lib/mailman/bin/dumpdb /var/lib/mailman/lists/<listname>/config.pck \
> | grep -i watermark
>     'usenet_watermark': 10,
>
> What I want to do here is change usenet_watermark to 9; however I
> haven't been able to find any information on how to modify the
> config.pck file - anyone know how that would be done?

I did some more searching and found this technique:

1. Get the name of the variable out of the config.pck file:

# /var/lib/mailman/bin/dumpdb /var/lib/mailman/lists/<listname>/config.pck \
  | grep -i watermark
    'usenet_watermark': 10,

2. Write the new value you want into a temporary file in the format
config_list expects mlist. before the variable), and check to make
sure that the file is correct:

# cat > tmp
mlist.usenet_watermark = 9
# cat tmp
mlist.usenet_watermark = 9

3. Run config_list with the tmp file as the input file against the list:

# config_list -i tmp <listname>

4. Check to make sure the change was successful:

# /var/lib/mailman/bin/dumpdb /var/lib/mailman/lists/<listname>/config.pck \
  | grep -i watermark
    'usenet_watermark': 9,

This worked, and got my message 10 gatewayed to the mailing list.

From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Mon Feb  5 20:44:06 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 13:44:06 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User Passwords and Conversion from Majordomo
Message-ID: <200702051944.l15Ji6t1026955@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

I have to convert all of our Majordomo lists to Mailman.  I have some
questions about the subscriber passwords.  

For each list I convert, I will be taking the existing Majordomo list
subscriber e-mail addresses and doing a "Mass Subscription" via the
Mailman list administrator web page.  

1) If I send welcome messages to the subscribers, then each
   subscriber will get a randomly generated password in the
   welcome message.  If I choose not to send the welcome
   message, then is there a password generated?  If so, how
   does the subscriber authenticate to the web page in
   order to update his/her subscription options?

2) In the initial lists I will be converting, there are persons who
   are subscribed to multiple lists.  These subscribers will receive a
   different password for each list, if I send welcome messages.  Is
   there a way of synchronizing the passwords?  From my reading of the
   FAQ and looking at the web page, a subscriber can use one of the
   lists and the randomly generated password in the welcome message,
   go to the web, and globally change the passwords for all of
   his/her lists.  I would prefer to have some way of generating a
   random password for a user for the first list to which he/she is
   subscribed, and then to use the same password for the subsequent
   lists, as I convert them.

Thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From dhottinger at harrisonburg.k12.va.us  Mon Feb  5 20:51:13 2007
From: dhottinger at harrisonburg.k12.va.us (dhottinger at harrisonburg.k12.va.us)
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 14:51:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman mailing lists and spam filter
Message-ID: <20070205145113.mtsfd7kk0cwsgckc@webmail.harrisonburg.k12.va.us>

I just setup a new mailserver because my old one went south.  I got  
mailman up and running but from the number of posts awaiting approval  
it doesnt look like my mailman stuff is running through my procmail  
scripts that filter my emails.  Im using an older version of mailman  
right now.  Is there someway I can look and see if these posts are  
routing correctly?

-- 
Dwayne Hottinger
Network Administrator
Harrisonburg City Public Schools


From chandler.lists at chapman.edu  Mon Feb  5 21:12:04 2007
From: chandler.lists at chapman.edu (Jay Chandler)
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2007 12:12:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permissions Problems
Message-ID: <45C78F94.20405@chapman.edu>

Did a make install from the FreeBSD Ports tree with the following 
options set (as per a Postfix install):

MM_USERNAME=mailman     The username of the Mailman user.
MM_USERID=91            The user ID of the Mailman user.
MM_GROUPNAME=mailman    The group to which the Mailman user will belong.
MM_GROUPID=MM_USERID    The group ID for the Mailman user.
MM_DIR=mailman          Mailman will be installed in /usr/local/mailman.
CGI_GID=www             The group name or id under which your web server 
executes CGI scripts.
IMGDIR=www/icons        Icon images will be installed in 
/usr/local/www/icons.


However, I attempt to mail the test list I created, and get the 
following error:

Diagnostic-Code: x-unix; Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
    wrapper script to be executed as group "nobody", but the system's mail
    server executed the mail script as group "mailman".  Try tweaking the mail
    server to run the script as group "nobody", or re-run configure,  providing
    the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mailman'.


The permissions on /usr/local/mailman/data/ are:
total 56
-rw-r-----  1 root     mailman     41 Jan 26 13:33 adm.pw
-rw-rw----  1 mailman  mailman   4540 Feb  5 11:26 aliases
-rw-rw----  1 mailman  mailman  16384 Feb  5 11:26 aliases.db
-rw-r--r--  1 root     mailman  13948 Feb  5 11:25 english252.cfg
-rw-r--r--  1 root     mailman     10 Feb  5 11:43 last_mailman_version
-rw-rw----  1 mailman  mailman      6 Feb  5 11:57 master-qrunner.pid
-rw-r--r--  1 root     mailman  14114 Feb  5 11:47 sitelist.cfg

The alias exists nowhere else on this box.

Postfix is set to run as the user postfix.

Does anyone have a clue?  Cookies for solutions-- it's approaching 
crunch time!

-- 
Jay Chandler
Network Administrator, Chapman University
714.628.7249 / chandler at chapman.edu
Today's Excuse: We're upgrading /dev/null 


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb  5 21:27:41 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 12:27:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman mailing lists and spam filter
In-Reply-To: <20070205145113.mtsfd7kk0cwsgckc@webmail.harrisonburg.k12.va.us>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702051227410078aaa4d397@msapiro>

dhottinger at harrisonburg.k12.va.us wrote:

>I just setup a new mailserver because my old one went south.  I got  
>mailman up and running but from the number of posts awaiting approval  
>it doesnt look like my mailman stuff is running through my procmail  
>scripts that filter my emails.  Im using an older version of mailman  
>right now.  Is there someway I can look and see if these posts are  
>routing correctly?


Look at the MTA logs and the procmail logs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb  5 21:37:13 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 12:37:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permissions Problems
In-Reply-To: <45C78F94.20405@chapman.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702051237130500aaa4d521@msapiro>

Jay Chandler wrote:

>Did a make install from the FreeBSD Ports tree with the following 
>options set (as per a Postfix install):
>
>MM_USERNAME=mailman     The username of the Mailman user.
>MM_USERID=91            The user ID of the Mailman user.
>MM_GROUPNAME=mailman    The group to which the Mailman user will belong.
>MM_GROUPID=MM_USERID    The group ID for the Mailman user.
>MM_DIR=mailman          Mailman will be installed in /usr/local/mailman.
>CGI_GID=www             The group name or id under which your web server 
>executes CGI scripts.
>IMGDIR=www/icons        Icon images will be installed in 
>/usr/local/www/icons.
>
>
>However, I attempt to mail the test list I created, and get the 
>following error:
>
>Diagnostic-Code: x-unix; Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
>    wrapper script to be executed as group "nobody", but the system's mail
>    server executed the mail script as group "mailman".  Try tweaking the mail
>    server to run the script as group "nobody", or re-run configure,  providing
>    the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mailman'.
>
>
>The permissions on /usr/local/mailman/data/ are:
>total 56
>-rw-r-----  1 root     mailman     41 Jan 26 13:33 adm.pw
>-rw-rw----  1 mailman  mailman   4540 Feb  5 11:26 aliases
>-rw-rw----  1 mailman  mailman  16384 Feb  5 11:26 aliases.db
>-rw-r--r--  1 root     mailman  13948 Feb  5 11:25 english252.cfg
>-rw-r--r--  1 root     mailman     10 Feb  5 11:43 last_mailman_version
>-rw-rw----  1 mailman  mailman      6 Feb  5 11:57 master-qrunner.pid
>-rw-r--r--  1 root     mailman  14114 Feb  5 11:47 sitelist.cfg
>
>The alias exists nowhere else on this box.
>
>Postfix is set to run as the user postfix.


Postfix will execute the pipe in the aliases in
/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases as user:group mailman:mailman - the
user:group of the aliases (or aliases.db) file.

It is doing this as you can see from the error message in from the
wrapper.

Your question is really a FreeBSD port question and might better be
answered by some support resource more directly oriented to that
package, but just guessing from what you have given above as the
options you set for the package, you might need something like

MAIL_GID=mailman

in addition to the other options.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Mon Feb  5 21:41:04 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 14:41:04 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User Passwords and Conversion from Majordomo
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Mark Sapiro <msapiro@value.net>'
	dated: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 12:25:22 -0800
Message-ID: <200702052041.l15Kf437028512@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

Mark Sapiro wrote, in response to my mail:

>Also, you may or may not realize it, but even if one is a member of
>multiple lists with the same email and password, one still has to log
>in to each list separately to visit that list's private archive and/or
>member options page.

But the process is easier if the user has only one Mailman password
to remember instead of a different one for each list.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From bob at bigcircle.com  Tue Feb  6 23:06:05 2007
From: bob at bigcircle.com (Bob Minor)
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 16:06:05 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <0A44C606-4310-4ACF-91E4-85D1161D521A@bigcircle.com>

I cannot seem to get the list to print out to me, I am this list  
admin and it only prints out the folks who don't have their hide bit  
set. Since that is everyone, almost, I don't get my list. Is there  
another way to export my list of users the html interface is a bit  
unwieldy for 30k users. If there is a command line to print it to a  
file that would be nice too!

TIA for the help.

From chandler.lists at chapman.edu  Wed Feb  7 00:34:02 2007
From: chandler.lists at chapman.edu (Jay Chandler)
Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 15:34:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Displaying Members
In-Reply-To: <0A44C606-4310-4ACF-91E4-85D1161D521A@bigcircle.com>
References: <0A44C606-4310-4ACF-91E4-85D1161D521A@bigcircle.com>
Message-ID: <45C9106A.7060906@chapman.edu>

Bob Minor wrote:
> I cannot seem to get the list to print out to me, I am this list  
> admin and it only prints out the folks who don't have their hide bit  
> set. Since that is everyone, almost, I don't get my list. Is there  
> another way to export my list of users the html interface is a bit  
> unwieldy for 30k users. If there is a command line to print it to a  
> file that would be nice too!
>
> TIA for the help.
>   

bin/list_members should do it for you.

-- 
Jay Chandler
Network Administrator, Chapman University
714.628.7249 / chandler at chapman.edu
Today's Excuse: Too many interrupts 


From cat at burningman.com  Wed Feb  7 02:40:17 2007
From: cat at burningman.com (Cat)
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 17:40:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change moderators and owner password from command
	line or email interface
Message-ID: <b4c6a1f10702061740w488dfc95o26f9beb2889e9fd4@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I've been asked  to do some modifications on 100 mailing lists, to implement
a new owner/moderator policy for all those lists.
There is 1 owner for the 100 lists, and the previous owners of each list
become moderators.

The owner of the 100 lists wants the same owner password of  the 100 lists,
and they also want the same passwd for moderators.

I have written a shell script to do most of the list owners and moderator
changes, but I can't find how to change the moderator and owner password.

change_pw  and withlist seems to change only a user's password (but I might
have missed something there as I'm not fluent in Python()

can the admin and moderator password be changed with a command line?
or an email command that I could include in my shell script?

Thanks in advance,


-- 
Cat
Burning Man Sysadmin Team

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb  7 04:03:48 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 19:03:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change moderators and owner password from
	commandline or email interface
In-Reply-To: <b4c6a1f10702061740w488dfc95o26f9beb2889e9fd4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070206190348067756aab235@msapiro>

Cat wrote:
>
>change_pw  and withlist seems to change only a user's password (but I might
>have missed something there as I'm not fluent in Python()


change_pw changes the list admin password. As written, it doesn't
change the moderator password. See 'bin/change_pw --help'

withlist can change any passwords, but you have to know how to do it in
Python.

The essentials to set either the admin and moderator passwords are

import sha
mlist.password = sha.new('new_admin_pw').hexdigest()
mlist.mod_password = sha.new('new_moderator_pw').hexdigest()

where mlist is the list instance and new_*_pw is the respective new
password.

You could also use the above three lines with appropriate password
values as an input file to bin/config_list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kwz-mm at commpartners.com  Wed Feb  7 16:26:31 2007
From: kwz-mm at commpartners.com (Karl Zander)
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 10:26:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change All Members to nomail
Message-ID: <web-3664406@commpartners.com>

  
Is there a command I can run to change all members of a 
list to a "nomail" setting?  And then change it back?  I 
didn't see anything in the FAQ.  I do have root access on 
the server.  Running MM 2.1.8.

--Karl

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb  7 17:20:10 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 08:20:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change All Members to nomail
In-Reply-To: <web-3664406@commpartners.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007020708201002964843ca92@msapiro>

Karl Zander wrote:
>  
>Is there a command I can run to change all members of a 
>list to a "nomail" setting?  And then change it back?  I 
>didn't see anything in the FAQ.  I do have root access on 
>the server.  Running MM 2.1.8.


You can do this with bin/withlist, but there are complications
depending on what you want to do with members who are already set to
nomail by themselves or by bounce or even by admin.

There is a nomail by unknown reason which is a conversion of a Mailman
2.0 nomail status that didn't have an associated reason. So I would
set all currently enabled members to nomail by unknown and then later
set the nomail by unknown members back to enabled, thus leaving the
admin, bounce and user settings alone.

To do this go to <http://veenet.value.net/~msapiro/scripts/> or
<http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/> and get the reset_bounce.py
script. Then find the lines

        if mlist.getDeliveryStatus(member) == MemberAdaptor.BYBOUNCE:
            mlist.setDeliveryStatus(member, MemberAdaptor.ENABLED)
            count += 1

and change them to

        if mlist.getDeliveryStatus(member) == MemberAdaptor.ENABLED:
            mlist.setDeliveryStatus(member, MemberAdaptor.UNKNOWN)
            count += 1

and run the script under withlist as described in the text at the front
of the script.

Then to set delivery back, change the lines to

        if mlist.getDeliveryStatus(member) == MemberAdaptor.UNKNOWN:
            mlist.setDeliveryStatus(member, MemberAdaptor.ENABLED)
            count += 1


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cat at apm.pt  Wed Feb  7 21:14:43 2007
From: cat at apm.pt (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Centro_de_Apoio_T=E9cnico_da_APM?=)
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 20:14:43 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User with same name of a mailman list not receiving
	e-mails
Message-ID: <69DE5FD0-8117-496B-AA48-8363A64C3A85@apm.pt>

The problem is this:

I have a user with mail account and a mailing-list running in Mailman  
with the same name of the user.

The email for example is this <user at domain.com> and the e-mail of the  
list is this <user at mailinglistsubdomain.com>.

When I send a message to the <user at domain.com>, the message is  
relayed to the list (but not posted) and not to the local box. If I  
send a message to the list there is no problem.

How can I resolve this?
I mean, I want the user to receive the message. Pure and simple.

Xserve   Mac OS X (10.3.9)

Jo?o Loureiro.

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb  7 21:43:39 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 12:43:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User with same name of a mailman list not
	receivinge-mails
In-Reply-To: <69DE5FD0-8117-496B-AA48-8363A64C3A85@apm.pt>
Message-ID: <PC176020070207124339068740ddf276@msapiro>

Centro de Apoio T?cnico da APM wrote:

>The problem is this:
>
>I have a user with mail account and a mailing-list running in Mailman  
>with the same name of the user.
>
>The email for example is this <user at domain.com> and the e-mail of the  
>list is this <user at mailinglistsubdomain.com>.
>
>When I send a message to the <user at domain.com>, the message is
>relayed to the list (but not posted) and not to the local box. If I
>send a message to the list there is no problem.
>
>How can I resolve this?
>I mean, I want the user to receive the message. Pure and simple.
>
>Xserve   Mac OS X (10.3.9)


This is a question better directed to support resources for your MTA.
The answer depends on what MTA you are using and perhaps other things,
but you have to recognize the different domains in your MTA and only
pipe to Mailman that mail which is addressed to the mailing list
domain.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Wed Feb  7 21:45:57 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2007 12:45:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User with same name of a mailman list not
 receiving e-mails
In-Reply-To: <69DE5FD0-8117-496B-AA48-8363A64C3A85@apm.pt>
References: <69DE5FD0-8117-496B-AA48-8363A64C3A85@apm.pt>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070207124031.06a9ac40@crimson-dragon.com>

Centro de Apoio T?cnico da APM sent the message below at 12:14 2/7/2007:
>The problem is this:
>
>I have a user with mail account and a mailing-list running in Mailman
>with the same name of the user.
>
>The email for example is this <user at domain.com> and the e-mail of the
>list is this <user at mailinglistsubdomain.com>.
>
>When I send a message to the <user at domain.com>, the message is
>relayed to the list (but not posted) and not to the local box. If I
>send a message to the list there is no problem.
>
>How can I resolve this?
>I mean, I want the user to receive the message. Pure and simple.
>
>Xserve   Mac OS X (10.3.9)
>
>--------------- End original message. ---------------------


The most direct solution is also simple, but it 
probably isn't going to be something that makes everyone happy.

You cannot have the list name and the user name 
be the same. One of them has to change.

There may be a way to set up virtual domains to 
allow this conflict to resolve correctly but I do not know how to do this.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From douglas at gpc.edu  Tue Feb  6 22:03:51 2007
From: douglas at gpc.edu (Douglas B. Jones)
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 16:03:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] umbrella lists
Message-ID: <021e01c74a32$4dd01050$ee08500a@dbjwork01>


I am using "Using Mailman version: 2.1.5" on rhel4 (what comes
with the box). I am want to set up a list, call it U1, that is
an umbrella list to list L1, L2 and some individual subscribers
S1 and S2. Can an umbrella list be set up this way, or is all
or nothing - ie: all the subscribers are either list or they
are all individual subscribers. If both can be on there, do I
list the sublists as (L1 and L2) as L1-owner and L2-owner? I would
want password reminders and such to go to S1 and S2 but not to
L1 or L2 (although L1-owner and L2-owner would be ok). Also would
want email from U1 to post to L1 lists, but would want L2 to
decide if the post should go through. Is this possible? Thanks!


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb  8 01:50:00 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 16:50:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] umbrella lists
In-Reply-To: <021e01c74a32$4dd01050$ee08500a@dbjwork01>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702071650000531e7d16c93@msapiro>

Douglas B. Jones wrote:
>
>I am using "Using Mailman version: 2.1.5" on rhel4 (what comes
>with the box). I am want to set up a list, call it U1, that is
>an umbrella list to list L1, L2 and some individual subscribers
>S1 and S2. Can an umbrella list be set up this way, or is all
>or nothing - ie: all the subscribers are either list or they
>are all individual subscribers.


There's nothing magic about umbrella lists. All the umbrella list
designation does is append '-owner' (or whatever suffix you choose) to
the local part of the recipient address of various administrative
messages - in particular, password reminders.

You can have both lists and individuals as members of a list, but it
isn't clean.


>If both can be on there, do I
>list the sublists as (L1 and L2) as L1-owner and L2-owner?


No. The sublists have to be L1 and L2 or the posts from U1 will not be
sent to the list members.


>I would
>want password reminders and such to go to S1 and S2 but not to
>L1 or L2 (although L1-owner and L2-owner would be ok).


This is the unclean part. If you declare U1 to be an umbrella list,
password reminders will be sent to S1-owner and S2-owner which is
probably not satisfactory. If U1 is not an umbrella list, then
password reminders will be sent to L1 and L2. You can always turn off
periodic reminders for these (list) members, but that doesn't stop
someone from requesting a password via web or email which then gets
mailed to the list.


>Also would
>want email from U1 to post to L1 lists, but would want L2 to
>decide if the post should go through. Is this possible? Thanks!


This part is easy. You set L1 and L2 (and U1) to
require_explicit_destination. You add U1 to acceptable_aliases for L1,
but not for L2. Then posts relayed from U1 to L2 will be held for
implicit destination and require moderator approval.

In many cases, you need to add U1-bounces as a member of L1 and L2 with
delivery disabled so that posts to U1 are not held by L1 and L2 as
being from a non-member. You could omit this for L2, and posts to L2
from U1 would be held for that reason.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cat at burningman.com  Thu Feb  8 03:06:21 2007
From: cat at burningman.com (Cat)
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 18:06:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Shell that moves admins to moderators,
	change admin and moderator passwd
Message-ID: <b4c6a1f10702071806m2b7e1287ke1d7002a5a579de9@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

not sure anyone will have use for this, but I'm submitting it just in case.

I had to do the following on 100+ lists:

for each list:

the administrator(s) becomes moderator(s)
a new administrator is added
change administrator's password
change moderator's password

the list of affected lists is in a file named reglists
/home/cat/wk is a directory where I store previous admins lists
/home/cat/cfg is a directory where I build the new config file to run on the
lists

for i in `cat /home/cat/reglists`
do
   echo $i
   # create list of administrators
   /usr/sbin/list_admins $i | awk -F: '{print $3;}' | sed -e "s/,/\n/g" |sed
-e
"s/^ //" > /home/cat/wk/$i

   # create new configfile
   echo "# -*- python -*-" > cfg/$i
   echo "# -*- coding: us-ascii -*-" >>cfg/$i

   # new moderators
   MOD="moderator = ["
   for j in `cat wk/$i`; do MOD="$MOD'$j',"; done
   echo $MOD |sed -se "s/,$/]/"  >>cfg/$i

   # new administrator
   echo "owner = ['newadmin at yourmom.com']" >> cfg/$i

   # new passwords
   echo "import sha" >> cfg/$i
   echo "mlist.password = sha.new('newadminpasswde').hexdigest()" >> cfg/$i
   echo "mlist.mod_password = sha.new('newmoderatorpasswd').hexdigest()" >>
cfg/$i

   # apply config file
   /usr/lib/mailman/bin/config_list -i cfg/$i $i

done

thanks to Mark for helping me figuring out the change of passwords in the
config file


-- 
Cat
Burning Man Sysadmin Team

From Kim.Moodley at pcb.co.za  Thu Feb  8 11:40:34 2007
From: Kim.Moodley at pcb.co.za (Kim Moodley)
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 12:40:34 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding a Disclaimer
Message-ID: <s5cb1a5a.011@hal.pcb.co.za>

How do i add a disclaimer within the mailing list. Is there options to
add something like this.

Is there any suggestions?


Thanks


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Thu Feb  8 17:04:43 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 08:04:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding a Disclaimer
In-Reply-To: <s5cb1a5a.011@hal.pcb.co.za>
References: <s5cb1a5a.011@hal.pcb.co.za>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070208080205.06829ab0@crimson-dragon.com>

Kim Moodley sent the message below at 02:40 2/8/2007:
>How do i add a disclaimer within the mailing list. Is there options to
>add something like this.
>
>Is there any suggestions?
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

You could add that text to the footer. It seems like the logical 
place to put it.

In the web interface for the list under Non-digest options, edit the 
msg_footer setting. Under the digest settings, edit the text of digest_footer.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From bgmahesh at gmail.com  Thu Feb  8 17:07:49 2007
From: bgmahesh at gmail.com (BG Mahesh)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 21:37:49 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocking particular domains
Message-ID: <5227ac5c0702080807u6b4de76h6f5c75cb47f6be12@mail.gmail.com>

hi

I had few basic questions about user management in Mailman

1. How do I know when a user registered himself with a mailing list?
2. How do I block particular email ids/emails from a particular domain from
becoming subscribers of a list?


-- 
--
B.G. Mahesh
http://www.greynium.com/
http://www.oneindia.in/
http://www.click.in/ - Free Indian Classifieds

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Feb  8 17:27:15 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 10:27:15 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman user account and login
In-Reply-To: <200702041840.l14Ie8eD010225@julie.lostwells.net>
References: <200702041840.l14Ie8eD010225@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00702080827y27e2df8exa6fe855fce512265@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/4/07, vancleef at lostwells.net <vancleef at lostwells.net> wrote:
> The mailman installation manual seems to imply that the mailman
> account should be added with no ability to log in to it.  I translated
> what appeared to me to be the sense of the line given to Solaris.
As with most daemon accounts..

> However, after having gone through several fire drills of resetting
> file owner from root to mailman, I've set the account up with the
> directory /usr/local/mailman and "NP" in the /etc/shadow file.
> This allows me to su - mailman from root, but not to get a login
> from anywhere else.  This is the same setup as is used for other
> Solaris "blind" accounts.
I don't see any reason that this would cause alarm. For caveat, see below...

> Is there any real reason not to use the account this way?  I'm aware
> that Mailman security is based on group identity, not user, but
> external programs such as htdig running under cron need to have
> uid mailman in files it writes to or to be set up as a mailman-uid
> program.  My personal preference is to set the needed uid's in the
> mailman runtime tree.
The main concern with this type of setup is that someone might be able
to exploit a vulnerability in mailman or htdig or whatever to obtain a
login shell for the users they run as. If that login shell is
/bin/false, well, they can just do whatever they want (i.e., nothing
at all) with that. If it's bash, well- that's another story
altogether.

Please note: The mailman user shouldn't *need* a valid shell for
programs to be running with its privileges. If there's not a reason
you need to login (either via su or something else), you're probably
better off giving mailman an invalid shell.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb  8 17:36:37 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 08:36:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocking particular domains
In-Reply-To: <5227ac5c0702080807u6b4de76h6f5c75cb47f6be12@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702080836370578ad4854c7@msapiro>

BG Mahesh wrote:
>
>1. How do I know when a user registered himself with a mailing list?


General Options->admin_notify_mchanges = yes


>2. How do I block particular email ids/emails from a particular domain from
>becoming subscribers of a list?


Privacy options...->Subscription rules->ban_list

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From monurergin at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  8 18:09:55 2007
From: monurergin at yahoo.com (M. Onur ERGiN)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 09:09:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderated postings return error on reason_notice()
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200702080836370578ad4854c7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <983010.20740.qm@web30306.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi, 
I got a system crush on my linux server, and after I did rescue everything, the following weird problem has appeared. There is no problem with postings of nonmoderated members, but whenever a moderated member sends mail to a list, the message gets lost and following log appears in 'log/error'. 

Thanks for help.

Onur.

Feb 08 18:53:37 2007 (1904) Uncaught runner exception: unbound method reason_notice() must be called with ModeratedMemberPost instance as first argument (got nothing instead)
Feb 08 18:53:37 2007 (1904) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py", line 67, in process
    ModeratedMemberPost)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py", line 216, in hold_for_approval
    reason = Utils.wrap(exc.reason_notice())
TypeError: unbound method reason_notice() must be called with ModeratedMemberPost instance as first argument (got nothing instead)


 
---------------------------------
Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited.

From derek.cicero at sun.com  Thu Feb  8 18:48:26 2007
From: derek.cicero at sun.com (Derek Cicero)
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 09:48:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List subscriptions are 'frozen'
Message-ID: <45CB626A.3010306@sun.com>

I searched the archives for this issue and did not find any relevant 
messages, so I was hoping someone could help me.

We've been running mailman 2.1.4 on Solaris for about 2 years and in the 
last week the subscription confirmations have seemingly stopped being 
sent to users. In looking at the subscription log, it's only been able 
to process 11 new subscriptions today, vs. 5000 pending ones.

Now, the 5000+ subscription requests seems odd, since that would match 
the total number of subscribers to all lists, so I assume those are 
attempts by spam-subscribers. Do we need to dump out the confirmation 
queue? Does mailman eventually get full of bad (spam) sign-up attempts?

Thanks,
Derek

-- 
Derek Cicero
Program Manager
Solaris Kernel Group, Software Division

From paichilee at hotmail.com  Thu Feb  8 19:27:10 2007
From: paichilee at hotmail.com (Michael Lee)
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 10:27:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachment URL's not working
Message-ID: <BAY125-F19B82374DC4B2D4886EB00B99D0@phx.gbl>

I've noticed that when I send e-mails with attachments (for example, either 
an HTML message sent from my gmail account or an attached jpeg) to my test 
list, I get the following footer

blah message
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.myexamples1.org/pipermail/bylaws/attachments/20070208/866=
c1be7/attachment.html

The first part of the URL is clickable, the second is not.

If I actually combine the two portions of the URL into 
http://lists.myexamples1.org/pipermail/bylaws/attachments/20070208/866=c1be7/attachment.html 
and feed it through my web browser, I receive a "404 not found" error.  On 
my Apache webserver, this is the appropriate log entry:

[Thu Feb 08 10:23:51 2007] [error] [client 128.32.226.135] File does not 
exist: 
/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/bylaws/attachments/20070208/866=c1be7

However, if I combine the two halves of the URL and remove the equal sign, 
so it looks like 
http://lists.myexamples1.org/pipermail/bylaws/attachments/20070208/866c1be7/attachment.html, 
then it works.

How do I fix my footers so that no equal sign gets injected into the 
attachment URL, and that the entire URL is clickable?

I'm using the following setup:
Ubuntu 6.0.6
Mailman 2.1.5 (from Ubuntu repository)

Thanks for any help.

Michael

_________________________________________________________________
Check out all that glitters with the MSN Entertainment Guide to the Academy 
Awards?   http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline2


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb  8 19:54:42 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 10:54:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachment URL's not working
In-Reply-To: <BAY125-F19B82374DC4B2D4886EB00B99D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC176020070208105442098431ff3262@msapiro>

Michael Lee wrote:
>
>I've noticed that when I send e-mails with attachments (for example, either 
>an HTML message sent from my gmail account or an attached jpeg) to my test 
>list, I get the following footer
>
>blah message
>-------------- next part --------------
>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>URL: http://lists.myexamples1.org/pipermail/bylaws/attachments/20070208/866=
>c1be7/attachment.html
>
>The first part of the URL is clickable, the second is not.
<snip>
>How do I fix my footers so that no equal sign gets injected into the 
>attachment URL, and that the entire URL is clickable?

This is not a Mailman issue. Apparently, the message you receive is
quoted-printable encoded. Among other things, quoted-printable
encoding allows long lines to be split by adding an '=' just before
the new-line that splits the long line. I.e., the line

abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijkl

could be split in a quoted-printable encoding into

abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklm=
nopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijkl

and the user agent that renders the message is supposed to drop the =
and the immediately following newline, thus rejoining the two pieces
into one long line.

Either your MUA (mail client) is not properly understanding the
quoted-printable encoding or some other agent in the delivery path
from Mailman to you has munged the message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From chandler.lists at chapman.edu  Thu Feb  8 19:59:56 2007
From: chandler.lists at chapman.edu (Jay Chandler)
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 10:59:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [OT] Adding a Disclaimer
In-Reply-To: <s5cb1a5a.011@hal.pcb.co.za>
References: <s5cb1a5a.011@hal.pcb.co.za>
Message-ID: <45CB732C.6080701@chapman.edu>

Kim Moodley wrote:
> How do i add a disclaimer within the mailing list. Is there options to
> add something like this.
>
> Is there any suggestions?
>
>   

Has one of these ever, in any country, stood up in court?  I did some
research and couldn't find anything conclusive...

-- 
Jay Chandler
Network Administrator, Chapman University
714.628.7249 / chandler at chapman.edu
Today's Excuse: Too many interrupts



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb  8 20:13:30 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 11:13:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List subscriptions are 'frozen'
In-Reply-To: <45CB626A.3010306@sun.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070208111330056257f520d0@msapiro>

Derek Cicero wrote:
>
>We've been running mailman 2.1.4 on Solaris for about 2 years and in the 
>last week the subscription confirmations have seemingly stopped being 
>sent to users.


What is the setting for Privacy options...->Subscription
rules->subscribe_policy>?

Is VirginRunner running? See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>
section 1)b).


>In looking at the subscription log, it's only been able 
>to process 11 new subscriptions today, vs. 5000 pending ones.
>
>Now, the 5000+ subscription requests seems odd, since that would match 
>the total number of subscribers to all lists, so I assume those are 
>attempts by spam-subscribers.


What do the log entries say?


>Do we need to dump out the confirmation 
>queue? Does mailman eventually get full of bad (spam) sign-up attempts?


The confirmation cookies expire after mm_cfg.PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE
(default 3 days) and are removed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb  8 22:10:14 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 13:10:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderated postings return error on
	reason_notice()
In-Reply-To: <983010.20740.qm@web30306.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007020813101403128c64c4e6@msapiro>

M. Onur ERGiN wrote:

>I got a system crush on my linux server, and after I did rescue everything, the following weird problem has appeared. There is no problem with postings of nonmoderated members, but whenever a moderated member sends mail to a list, the message gets lost and following log appears in 'log/error'. 

<snip>

>Feb 08 18:53:37 2007 (1904) Uncaught runner exception: unbound method reason_notice() must be called with ModeratedMemberPost instance as first argument (got nothing instead)
>Feb 08 18:53:37 2007 (1904) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
>    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline
>    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py", line 67, in process
>    ModeratedMemberPost)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py", line 216, in hold_for_approval
>    reason = Utils.wrap(exc.reason_notice())
>TypeError: unbound method reason_notice() must be called with ModeratedMemberPost instance as first argument (got nothing instead)



It seems you probably didn't rescue everything properly. This error in
the hold_for_approval() function in Hold.py should not be occurring
unless you wound up post-rescue using a pre 2.1.9 Mailman with Python
2.5

At the point of the exception exc is a class ModeratedMemberPost
instead of an instance of that class, yet the beginning of
hold_for_approval() has

    if isinstance(exc, ClassType) or isinstance(exc, type(type)):
        # Go ahead and instantiate it now.
        exc = exc()

or pre Mailman 2.1.9

    if type(exc) is ClassType:
        # Go ahead and instantiate it now.
        exc = exc()

This should render the exception 'impossible' unless you are using a
pre 2.1.9 Mailman with Python 2.1.5. If so, I think this is an
incompatability.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bob at morsemedia.net  Thu Feb  8 22:40:12 2007
From: bob at morsemedia.net (Bob Morse)
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2007 13:40:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Challenge/response
Message-ID: <C1F0D8BC.419FD%bob@morsemedia.net>

I have a client who is concerned about his list subscriber addresses being
spoofed. In other words someone who knows the addresses of people on the
list can set up a mail server and spoof the subscriber so he can post nasty
things to the list. He would like to set up a challenge/response mechanism
so that when xyz at domain.com posts to the list, xyz at domain.com gets sent a
copy of the message and must confirm that he/she was the sender before it
gets posted. I don?t see any configuration in Mailman for this. Is it
possible?

BTW, searching the archives at mail-arcihve.com gets a 404 error.




From monurergin at yahoo.com  Thu Feb  8 23:49:19 2007
From: monurergin at yahoo.com (M. Onur ERGiN)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 14:49:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderated postings return error on
	reason_notice()
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007020813101403128c64c4e6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <110136.3139.qm@web30309.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Right, I have Mailman 2.1.7 and Python 2.5. Now, should I change the version of Python or Mailman? or, is there anything else better that you could suggest?

Thanks, 
Onur.

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote: M. Onur ERGiN wrote:

>I got a system crush on my linux server, and after I did rescue everything, the following weird problem has appeared. There is no problem with postings of nonmoderated members, but whenever a moderated member sends mail to a list, the message gets lost and following log appears in 'log/error'. 



>Feb 08 18:53:37 2007 (1904) Uncaught runner exception: unbound method reason_notice() must be called with ModeratedMemberPost instance as first argument (got nothing instead)
>Feb 08 18:53:37 2007 (1904) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
>    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline
>    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py", line 67, in process
>    ModeratedMemberPost)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py", line 216, in hold_for_approval
>    reason = Utils.wrap(exc.reason_notice())
>TypeError: unbound method reason_notice() must be called with ModeratedMemberPost instance as first argument (got nothing instead)



It seems you probably didn't rescue everything properly. This error in
the hold_for_approval() function in Hold.py should not be occurring
unless you wound up post-rescue using a pre 2.1.9 Mailman with Python
2.5

At the point of the exception exc is a class ModeratedMemberPost
instead of an instance of that class, yet the beginning of
hold_for_approval() has

    if isinstance(exc, ClassType) or isinstance(exc, type(type)):
        # Go ahead and instantiate it now.
        exc = exc()

or pre Mailman 2.1.9

    if type(exc) is ClassType:
        # Go ahead and instantiate it now.
        exc = exc()

This should render the exception 'impossible' unless you are using a
pre 2.1.9 Mailman with Python 2.1.5. If so, I think this is an
incompatability.

-- 
Mark Sapiro        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



 
---------------------------------
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Feb  9 00:42:25 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 17:42:25 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Challenge/response
In-Reply-To: <C1F0D8BC.419FD%bob@morsemedia.net>
References: <C1F0D8BC.419FD%bob@morsemedia.net>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00702081542k29da42hcd0c9159368d250d@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/8/07, Bob Morse <bob at morsemedia.net> wrote:
> I have a client who is concerned about his list subscriber addresses being
> spoofed. In other words someone who knows the addresses of people on the
> list can set up a mail server and spoof the subscriber so he can post nasty
> things to the list. He would like to set up a challenge/response mechanism
> so that when xyz at domain.com posts to the list, xyz at domain.com gets sent a
> copy of the message and must confirm that he/she was the sender before it
> gets posted. I don?t see any configuration in Mailman for this. Is it
> possible?

So far as I know, this isn't possible in Mailman. You'd have to modify
the code.. If you think you're up to it, other folk should be able to
give you some pointers as to the best way to do this.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Feb  9 00:41:04 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 17:41:04 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderated postings return error on
	reason_notice()
In-Reply-To: <110136.3139.qm@web30309.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <PC17602007020813101403128c64c4e6@msapiro>
	<110136.3139.qm@web30309.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00702081541i7f83c64dr24830788c4bedbee@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/8/07, M. Onur ERGiN <monurergin at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Right, I have Mailman 2.1.7 and Python 2.5. Now, should I change the version of Python or Mailman? or, is there anything else better that you could suggest?

Upgrading to the newest Mailman is always a good choice.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb  9 01:52:56 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 16:52:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderated postings return error on
	reason_notice()
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00702081541i7f83c64dr24830788c4bedbee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702081652560484f2af707c@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>On 2/8/07, M. Onur ERGiN <monurergin at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Right, I have Mailman 2.1.7 and Python 2.5. Now, should I change the version of Python or Mailman? or, is there anything else better that you could suggest?
>
>Upgrading to the newest Mailman is always a good choice.


Agreed!

There are at least 3 modules in pre 2.1.9 Mailman that are not
compatable with Python 2.5. The best bet is to upgrade Mailman to
2.1.9, but for your immediate problem, you could download the
following three modules from sourceforge and copy them to your
installation and restart mailman. The modules/versions you need are:

<http://mailman.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/mailman/branches/Release_2_1-maint/mailman/Mailman/SecurityManager.py?revision=7963&pathrev=7963>

<http://mailman.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/mailman/branches/Release_2_1-maint/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py?revision=7963&pathrev=7963>

and

<http://mailman.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/mailman/branches/Release_2_1-maint/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py?revision=7963>


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb  9 02:04:14 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 17:04:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Challenge/response
In-Reply-To: <C1F0D8BC.419FD%bob@morsemedia.net>
Message-ID: <PC176020070208170414000033192e6e@msapiro>

Bob Morse wrote:
>
>BTW, searching the archives at mail-arcihve.com gets a 404 error.


I see that too, but that is a www.mail-archive.com issue. We can't do
anything about it.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.018.htp>
for info on searching
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/> with Google.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Feb  9 03:56:06 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 20:56:06 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Challenge/response
In-Reply-To: <C1F0D8BC.419FD%bob@morsemedia.net>
References: <C1F0D8BC.419FD%bob@morsemedia.net>
Message-ID: <p06240504c1f192d27c78@[10.0.1.12]>

At 1:40 PM -0800 2/8/07, Bob Morse wrote:

>                     He would like to set up a challenge/response mechanism
>  so that when xyz at domain.com posts to the list, xyz at domain.com gets sent a
>  copy of the message and must confirm that he/she was the sender before it
>  gets posted. I don't see any configuration in Mailman for this. Is it
>  possible?

Challenge/response is one of the most vile inventions that has ever 
been applied to the concept of Internet e-mail.  I would violently 
oppose any integration of such features into any project I was 
involved with.

At the very least, you would have to be very, very careful how such a 
system was created, so as to avoid the problem where the "cure" is 
far worse than any possible disease that you might have.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
Co-author of SAGE Booklet #15 "Internet Postmaster: Duties and 
Responsibilities"
Founding Member and Platinum Individual Sponsor of LOPSA: 
<http://www.lopsa.org>
Papers: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4> LinkedIn Profile: 
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From ptomblin at xcski.com  Fri Feb  9 04:02:55 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 22:02:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Challenge/response
In-Reply-To: <p06240504c1f192d27c78@[10.0.1.12]>
References: <C1F0D8BC.419FD%bob@morsemedia.net>
	<p06240504c1f192d27c78@[10.0.1.12]>
Message-ID: <20070209030255.GA27580@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Brad Knowles (brad at shub-internet.org):
> At 1:40 PM -0800 2/8/07, Bob Morse wrote:
> >                     He would like to set up a challenge/response mechanism
> >  so that when xyz at domain.com posts to the list, xyz at domain.com gets sent a
> >  copy of the message and must confirm that he/she was the sender before it
> >  gets posted. I don't see any configuration in Mailman for this. Is it
> >  possible?
> 
> Challenge/response is one of the most vile inventions that has ever 
> been applied to the concept of Internet e-mail.  I would violently 
> oppose any integration of such features into any project I was 
> involved with.

Somebody should integrate PGP signing into Mailman (as an option) so that
you could set it up so when you subscribe to a list you give it your
public key, and you can't post to the list unless the message is PGP
signed by that key.

<rant>
Digital signatures on email is something that is extremely overdue.  PGP
signatures have been grafted on in a half-assed way, but someday either no
mail will travel unless it's been correctly signed or email will disappear
as a viable means of communication because of the spam problem.
</rant>

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
"Belligerent Design: The theory that life was put on this planet by an
external sentient force just to piss me off." - Lore Brand Comics

From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Feb  9 04:54:14 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 12:54:14 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Challenge/response
In-Reply-To: <p06240504c1f192d27c78@[10.0.1.12]>
References: <C1F0D8BC.419FD%bob@morsemedia.net>
	<p06240504c1f192d27c78@[10.0.1.12]>
Message-ID: <87wt2skmu1.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brad Knowles writes:

 > Challenge/response is one of the most vile inventions that has ever 
 > been applied to the concept of Internet e-mail.

*chuckle*

I wouldn't go so far, since the spam that evoked it is far worse, but
I'm steadfastly opposed to challenge-response.

If you absolutely *must* do this thing, be prepared to get violent
responses and to lose mail from people that you'd really like to get
mail from.

Now that you're properly warned, I believe that there is a description
of how to integrate TMDA, a popular Python-based challenge-response
system, into Mailman in the Mailman FAQ wizard.  If not, I suppose
there would be one on the TMDA home page.



From vancleef at lostwells.net  Fri Feb  9 04:57:44 2007
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (vancleef at lostwells.net)
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 20:57:44 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Challenge/response
In-Reply-To: <C1F0D8BC.419FD%bob@morsemedia.net>
Message-ID: <200702090357.l193via6000011@julie.lostwells.net>

> 
> I have a client who is concerned about his list subscriber addresses being
> spoofed. In other words someone who knows the addresses of people on the
> list can set up a mail server and spoof the subscriber so he can post nasty
> things to the list. He would like to set up a challenge/response mechanism
> so that when xyz at domain.com posts to the list, xyz at domain.com gets sent a
> copy of the message and must confirm that he/she was the sender before it
> gets posted. I don?t see any configuration in Mailman for this. Is it
> possible?
> 
Challenge-response is a well-known spam relay issue, and very
undesirable.   Mailman privacy options allow you to force moderation
of mail purportedly coming from specific addresses  You should also 
investigate methods using your MTA or adding a filter to the mailman 
address input, and not even think about challenge-response.  

Hank

From cat at apm.pt  Fri Feb  9 14:14:18 2007
From: cat at apm.pt (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Centro_de_Apoio_T=E9cnico_da_APM?=)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 13:14:18 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User with same name of a mailman list not
	receivinge-mails
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070207124339068740ddf276@msapiro>
References: <PC176020070207124339068740ddf276@msapiro>
Message-ID: <09D54125-0566-483D-9BAA-B96022CE6747@apm.pt>

Hello,

My MTA is Postfix and I have other lists running of the same  
mailinglist.domain.com just fine.
The problem here is that I have a user in my server that has mail  
running in the domain.com and a list with the same name of that user  
running in mailinglist.domain.com. And now the user wont receive the  
messages.

My point is: how can I prevent the messages sent to user at domain.com  
going to the list?

Thanks,
Jo?o.

On 2007/02/07, at 20:43, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Centro de Apoio T?cnico da APM wrote:
>
>> The problem is this:
>>
>> I have a user with mail account and a mailing-list running in Mailman
>> with the same name of the user.
>>
>> The email for example is this <user at domain.com> and the e-mail of the
>> list is this <user at mailinglistsubdomain.com>.
>>
>> When I send a message to the <user at domain.com>, the message is
>> relayed to the list (but not posted) and not to the local box. If I
>> send a message to the list there is no problem.
>>
>> How can I resolve this?
>> I mean, I want the user to receive the message. Pure and simple.
>>
>> Xserve   Mac OS X (10.3.9)
>
>
> This is a question better directed to support resources for your MTA.
> The answer depends on what MTA you are using and perhaps other things,
> but you have to recognize the different domains in your MTA and only
> pipe to Mailman that mail which is addressed to the mailing list
> domain.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From cat at apm.pt  Fri Feb  9 14:18:03 2007
From: cat at apm.pt (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Centro_de_Apoio_T=E9cnico_da_APM?=)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 13:18:03 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User with same name of a mailman list not
	receiving e-mails
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070207124031.06a9ac40@crimson-dragon.com>
References: <69DE5FD0-8117-496B-AA48-8363A64C3A85@apm.pt>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20070207124031.06a9ac40@crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <572DBB2F-4842-4241-ABC5-BC6E791CBB04@apm.pt>

Hi,

1. Probably the best way is to change the name of the list to not  
match the name of the user of our system.But still there may be way  
to do this?

2. If the solution is in virtual domains configuration of Postfix, is  
there anyone that can help me with the setup?

I am looking for something like this:

user at domain.com should receive messages sent to user at domain.com
user at mailinglist.domain.com should receive messages sent to  
user at mailinglist.domain.com
messages sent to user at domain.com should NOT be sent to  
user at mailinglist.domain.com

Thanks for any help,
Jo?o.

On 2007/02/07, at 20:45, Dragon wrote:

> Centro de Apoio T?cnico da APM sent the message below at 12:14  
> 2/7/2007:
>> The problem is this:
>>
>> I have a user with mail account and a mailing-list running in Mailman
>> with the same name of the user.
>>
>> The email for example is this <user at domain.com> and the e-mail of the
>> list is this <user at mailinglistsubdomain.com>.
>>
>> When I send a message to the <user at domain.com>, the message is
>> relayed to the list (but not posted) and not to the local box. If I
>> send a message to the list there is no problem.
>>
>> How can I resolve this?
>> I mean, I want the user to receive the message. Pure and simple.
>>
>> Xserve   Mac OS X (10.3.9)
>>
>> --------------- End original message. ---------------------
>
>
> The most direct solution is also simple, but it probably isn't  
> going to be something that makes everyone happy.
>
> You cannot have the list name and the user name be the same. One of  
> them has to change.
>
> There may be a way to set up virtual domains to allow this conflict  
> to resolve correctly but I do not know how to do this.
>
> Dragon
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Fri Feb  9 14:54:18 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 08:54:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User with same name of a mailman list not
	receivinge-mails
In-Reply-To: <09D54125-0566-483D-9BAA-B96022CE6747@apm.pt>
References: <PC176020070207124339068740ddf276@msapiro>
	<09D54125-0566-483D-9BAA-B96022CE6747@apm.pt>
Message-ID: <20070209135418.GA8785@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Centro de Apoio T?cnico da APM (cat at apm.pt):
> > This is a question better directed to support resources for your MTA.
> > The answer depends on what MTA you are using and perhaps other things,
> > but you have to recognize the different domains in your MTA and only
> > pipe to Mailman that mail which is addressed to the mailing list
> > domain.
> 
> My MTA is Postfix and I have other lists running of the same  
> mailinglist.domain.com just fine.
> The problem here is that I have a user in my server that has mail  
> running in the domain.com and a list with the same name of that user  
> running in mailinglist.domain.com. And now the user wont receive the  
> messages.
> 
> My point is: how can I prevent the messages sent to user at domain.com  
> going to the list?

Mark is correct, this is a Postfix issue not a Mailman issue, per-se.  The
default setup of Mailman with postfix is that it sets up a virtual table
where listname at listdomain.domain.com is redirected to listname at domain.com,
and if somebody has listname at domain.com, then you're sunk.  CPanel patched
their version of Mailman so that listname at listdomain.domain.com is
redirected to listname-listdomain at domain.com, which would solve your
problem, but you'd probably have to do it by hand.  Look in
/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/virtual-mailman and /var/lib/mailman/aliases.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
I find that anthropomorphism really doesn't help me deal with hardware all
that much, because it lends a certain attitude of disdain to what would
otherwise be a mere malfunction.  -- Carl Jacobs

From jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu  Fri Feb  9 16:35:40 2007
From: jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu (Jewel)
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 09:35:40 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Daylight savings
Message-ID: <45CC94CC.4050203@washburn.edu>

Still a newbie and was concerned about the daylight savings time issue. 
  The server I have which runs Mailman only runs Mailman and nothing 
else.   Will I need to install a patch or will Mailman not be affected 
with the time change?
-- 
J

From cpz at tuunq.com  Fri Feb  9 18:46:47 2007
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 09:46:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Daylight savings
In-Reply-To: <45CC94CC.4050203@washburn.edu> from Jewel at "Feb 9,
	2007 09:35:40 am"
Message-ID: <20070209174647.327C17AF@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Jewel wrote:
> Still a newbie and was concerned about the daylight savings time issue. 
>   The server I have which runs Mailman only runs Mailman and nothing 
> else.   Will I need to install a patch or will Mailman not be affected 
> with the time change?

Mailman, like most applications/services, gets the time from the server 
OS, so you need to get updates for the OS timezone definitions.

z!

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb  9 20:09:52 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 11:09:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User with same name of a mailman list
	notreceiving e-mails
In-Reply-To: <572DBB2F-4842-4241-ABC5-BC6E791CBB04@apm.pt>
Message-ID: <PC17602007020911095201403bf4c300@msapiro>

Centro de Apoio T?cnico da APM wrote:
>
>2. If the solution is in virtual domains configuration of Postfix, is  
>there anyone that can help me with the setup?
>
>I am looking for something like this:
>
>user at domain.com should receive messages sent to user at domain.com
>user at mailinglist.domain.com should receive messages sent to  
>user at mailinglist.domain.com
>messages sent to user at domain.com should NOT be sent to  
>user at mailinglist.domain.com


Yes, I think you can do this with Postfix virtual domains.

See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html>, in
particular the second paragraph, and
http://www.postfix.org/VIRTUAL_README.html>. If you need further help
with the Postfix side of this, I suggest you persue the resources at
<http://www.postfix.org/>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From chandler.lists at chapman.edu  Fri Feb  9 20:22:34 2007
From: chandler.lists at chapman.edu (Jay Chandler)
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 11:22:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Challenge/response
In-Reply-To: <C1F0D8BC.419FD%bob@morsemedia.net>
References: <C1F0D8BC.419FD%bob@morsemedia.net>
Message-ID: <45CCC9FA.7040403@chapman.edu>

Bob Morse wrote:
> I have a client who is concerned about his list subscriber addresses being
> spoofed. In other words someone who knows the addresses of people on the
> list can set up a mail server and spoof the subscriber so he can post nasty
> things to the list. He would like to set up a challenge/response mechanism
> so that when xyz at domain.com posts to the list, xyz at domain.com gets sent a
> copy of the message and must confirm that he/she was the sender before it
> gets posted. I don?t see any configuration in Mailman for this. Is it
> possible?
>
> BTW, searching the archives at mail-arcihve.com gets a 404 error.
>
>   
Realize that should you implement Challenge/Response, your server WILL 
be blacklisted by various DNSBLs out there.  Backscatter is 
indistinguishable from spam to spamtraps.

-- 
Jay Chandler
Network Administrator, Chapman University
714.628.7249 / chandler at chapman.edu
Today's Excuse: positron router malfunction 


From ameyer2 at yahoo.com  Sat Feb 10 00:11:21 2007
From: ameyer2 at yahoo.com (Alan Meyer)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 15:11:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing data from an external source.
Message-ID: <396939.2878.qm@web33002.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Ladies and Gentlemen:

I'm using mailman as the list manager for a club with about
150 members.  We have an online roster system that members
use to update their names, addresses, email addresses, and 
some club specific stuff.  However the roster software (home
grown stuff that I wrote in Perl) can't do the sophisticated
mailing service that mailman handles, so we use both programs.

What I'm hoping for is a way to update the mailman database
from my online roster.  One approach might be an API call I
could use to update the mailman database (I could write my
end in Python if necessary).  Another approach might be an
import function that allows me to specify a file containing
names and email addresses to import.

I searched the archives but got no hits on "import" or "api".

The FAQ suggests searching Google for "import" or "convert" with
"inurl:mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/".  But that
wasn't helpful and I got no hits on the standard archives
search engine.

I did find a tantalizing hint in the FAQ at 5.1.  It looks
like if I create a file in mbox format I might be able to
import it.  It said to place the list as follows:

 archives/private/<list>.mbox/<list>.mbox
  (where <list> is your list name)

and then run:
 bin/arch <list> archives/private/<list>.mbox/<list>.mbox

Will that help me?

I may not actually be able to do it even if it will because
I'm using the computer in a hosted environment that provides
me a Linux user login but it's running mailman under the 
mailman account using cpanel.  I'd have to convince someone
to let me do this - which might be possible if it's a secure
thing to do, but not if it could affect other accounts on the
system.

I can't find any mailman files in my account tree and I'm 
assuming they're kept separately somewhere that I can't 
read much less update.

Thanks in advance for any help or ideas.

    Alan


Alan Meyer
ameyer2 at yahoo.com


 
____________________________________________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
http://new.mail.yahoo.com

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Feb 10 00:43:33 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 15:43:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing data from an external source.
In-Reply-To: <396939.2878.qm@web33002.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702091543330703c6aaa080@msapiro>

Alan Meyer wrote:
>
>I'm using mailman as the list manager for a club with about
>150 members.  We have an online roster system that members
>use to update their names, addresses, email addresses, and 
>some club specific stuff.  However the roster software (home
>grown stuff that I wrote in Perl) can't do the sophisticated
>mailing service that mailman handles, so we use both programs.
>
>What I'm hoping for is a way to update the mailman database
>from my online roster.  One approach might be an API call I
>could use to update the mailman database (I could write my
>end in Python if necessary).  Another approach might be an
>import function that allows me to specify a file containing
>names and email addresses to import.


There are command line tools bin/add_members and bin/sync_members.
add_members will add members from a file of (names and) addresses.
sync_members will add and delete members to mage the membership match
a file of (names and) addresses. You may or may not be given access to
use these.

There is a Python API like interface, but you almost certainly won't be
given access to use it.


>I did find a tantalizing hint in the FAQ at 5.1.  It looks
>like if I create a file in mbox format I might be able to
>import it.  It said to place the list as follows:
>
> archives/private/<list>.mbox/<list>.mbox
>  (where <list> is your list name)
>
>and then run:
> bin/arch <list> archives/private/<list>.mbox/<list>.mbox
>
>Will that help me?


No. It is talking only about importing list archives. It has nothing to
do with membership.


>I may not actually be able to do it even if it will because
>I'm using the computer in a hosted environment that provides
>me a Linux user login but it's running mailman under the 
>mailman account using cpanel.  I'd have to convince someone
>to let me do this - which might be possible if it's a secure
>thing to do, but not if it could affect other accounts on the
>system.
>
>I can't find any mailman files in my account tree and I'm 
>assuming they're kept separately somewhere that I can't 
>read much less update.


That's probably correct (that you can't even read them). The host also
probably won't give you access to any of the command line tools since
they can be used installation-wide. Also, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>
for the 'standard cPanel disclaimer'.

I suggest you investigate using the web admin Mass subscription and
Mass removal interface to add and remove members. You can send the
appropriate HTTP POST (HTTP GET with the post data works too) using
wget or perhaps tools available Perl or a Python script you might
write.

See the thread beginning at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-December/041213.html>
for more information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dfilchak at sympatico.ca  Sat Feb 10 00:58:09 2007
From: dfilchak at sympatico.ca (Dave Filchak)
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 18:58:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approved: <password>
Message-ID: <45CD0A91.9070602@sympatico.ca>

I am trying to post to a one way (announce only) list using a user whose 
moderation bit is set, but am using the method described in the FAQ i.e. 
adding Approved: <password> to the first line of the body, with a 
carriage return and blank line after it. It keeps rejecting it with the 
standard "Sorry, this is an announce only list ...etc etc. Can someone 
tell me if this still works and how and perhaps how I add this to the 
header rather than the body?

Mailman Version 2.1.9

Thanks

Dave

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


From bob at morsemedia.net  Sat Feb 10 00:54:59 2007
From: bob at morsemedia.net (Bob Morse)
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2007 15:54:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Challenge/Response
Message-ID: <C1F249D3.41B65%bob@morsemedia.net>

Thank you all for your insights in the Challenge/Response question. I am
convinced this is not the way to go. In fact, I used some of the same
arguments to the client when he brought it up.

The problem remains, however: How do I prevent spoofing? In this case they
have a real fear due to a board member who is soon to be ejected from the
board and have organizational membership taken away. They feel he is capable
(both emotionally and technically) of major disturbances on one or more of
about a dozen mailing lists the organization maintains.

What makes this even more of a ?challenge? is that the account is on a
shared server.


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Feb 10 02:14:14 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 17:14:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approved: <password>
In-Reply-To: <45CD0A91.9070602@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <PC17602007020917141405001bfdd382@msapiro>

Dave Filchak wrote:

>I am trying to post to a one way (announce only) list using a user whose 
>moderation bit is set, but am using the method described in the FAQ i.e. 
>adding Approved: <password> to the first line of the body, with a 
>carriage return and blank line after it. It keeps rejecting it with the 
>standard "Sorry, this is an announce only list ...etc etc. Can someone 
>tell me if this still works and how and perhaps how I add this to the 
>header rather than the body?


Yes, it works. Possible things that might be wrong are:

the password - it must be the list's admin or moderator password;
neither the site password nor a member's password will work, and it
must not have angle brackets around it.

the format of the post - if the post is HTML, the Approved: line in the
body won't work. The Approved: line must be the first non-blank line
in the first text/plain part of the message. If it is, it is removed
from that part and an attempt is made to remove it from all other text
parts of the message, but the removal from other parts is not
guaranteed to work.

In general, if the post is simple plain text, or multipart/alternative
with text/plain and text/html alternatives, the Approved: line will
work and it will usually be removed from both parts of a
multipart/alternative message, but it can be left in the text/html
part under some circumstances.

If the Approved: line is an actual header rather than a body line, it
will always be recognized and removed regardless of the MIME structure
of the message. How to add such a header or if it is even possible
depends on the user agent (mail client) used to compose and send the
mail. You used Thunderbird to send this post. See
<http://kb.mozillazine.org/Custom_headers> for information on adding
custom headers with Thunderbird.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Feb 10 02:30:04 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 19:30:04 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Challenge/Response
In-Reply-To: <C1F249D3.41B65%bob@morsemedia.net>
References: <C1F249D3.41B65%bob@morsemedia.net>
Message-ID: <p06240507c1f2d013f5c4@[10.0.1.12]>

At 3:54 PM -0800 2/9/07, Bob Morse wrote:

>  The problem remains, however: How do I prevent spoofing?

If the problem is that sensitive, then your only option that I can 
see is to use human moderation.  For each message that comes in, you 
have a human look at it to see if it's legitimate or not, and take 
appropriate action.

>                                                           In this case they
>  have a real fear due to a board member who is soon to be ejected from the
>  board and have organizational membership taken away. They feel he is capable
>  (both emotionally and technically) of major disturbances on one or more of
>  about a dozen mailing lists the organization maintains.

Turn on "emergency moderation" for all lists, until the emergency has passed.

>  What makes this even more of a 'challenge' is that the account is on a
>  shared server.

If he can get onto your shared server, then you've got much, much 
bigger problems.  In that case, there's nothing that Mailman can do 
to save your soul.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
Co-author of SAGE Booklet #15 "Internet Postmaster: Duties and 
Responsibilities"
Founding Member and Platinum Individual Sponsor of LOPSA: 
<http://www.lopsa.org>
Papers: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4> LinkedIn Profile: 
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Feb 10 14:55:21 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 22:55:21 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Challenge/Response
In-Reply-To: <C1F249D3.41B65%bob@morsemedia.net>
References: <C1F249D3.41B65%bob@morsemedia.net>
Message-ID: <87r6sykth2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Bob Morse writes:

 > The problem remains, however: How do I prevent spoofing? In this case they
 > have a real fear due to a board member who is soon to be ejected from the
 > board and have organizational membership taken away. They feel he is capable
 > (both emotionally and technically) of major disturbances on one or more of
 > about a dozen mailing lists the organization maintains.

Wouldn't moderating non-members and requiring admin approval for
subscriptions be enough?  Or is he capable of spoofing a member's From
address?

If not, I've been there (the problem wasn't a board member, more like
a stalker).  However challenge/response wouldn't help anyway, because
it's easy enough to set up an autoresponder for typical C/R systems.
If not, and he's determined, he'll just do the C/R dance by hand.

What we ended up with was blacklisting the guy's known accounts,
hosts, and IP addresses, which caught most of the shrapnel, and human
moderation for about a month.  He gave up after two weeks of zero
success in several hundred attempts to subscribe or otherwise get past
the filters.  Had he come back they were prepared to cross-check IP
addresses from the Received headers against From addresses for the
regular posters.  Don't know if he would have been capable of getting
around that (spoofing both From and Received is easy enough if you
know what you're doing), fortunately we didn't have to go to those
extremes.  Here's hoping you don't have to, either.


From vancleef at lostwells.net  Sat Feb 10 18:42:13 2007
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (vancleef at lostwells.net)
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:42:13 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Challenge/Response
In-Reply-To: <C1F249D3.41B65%bob@morsemedia.net>
Message-ID: <200702101742.l1AHgDaI015952@julie.lostwells.net>

> 
> The problem remains, however: How do I prevent spoofing? In this case they
> have a real fear due to a board member who is soon to be ejected from the
> board and have organizational membership taken away. They feel he is capable
> (both emotionally and technically) of major disturbances on one or more of
> about a dozen mailing lists the organization maintains.
> 
> What makes this even more of a ?challenge? is that the account is on a
> shared server.
> 
I think that you're trying to deal with a sociological problem here.
I'll presume that the organization is prepared to make a statement
about this personnel action.  In general, that's a Public Relations
issue, not a technological one.

I'll also presume that the individual who is involved does not have
administrative access (root, etc.) to the Mailman host site.  The site
administrator(s) need to be informed of the action that is about to
take place, and told to secure the site appropriately, etc.  

So far as handling any fall-out from this action on one or more mail
lists, I'll suggest that you have list moderators (list administrator
level, but the job is "moderation") prepared to weather developments.
It would be very wise to have somebody in a list administration role
who is prepared to handle Public Relations handling of the fallout
from this action.  

Technically, start with embargoing the individual's known accounts
(unsubscribe, or at least put on moderation, and use the Mailman 
filters to catch probable variations, prevent posting from
non-registered addresses, and require moderator review of new
subscriptions).  Then, wait for developments.  

Experience with this sort of thing suggests that the problem
individual will try to post, and will ultimately succeed, but will
have built up such a head of steam that the post will lose whatever
support the individual might have had.  

Mailman has some very good resources a savvy moderator can use
effectively for damage control.  The ultimate weapon, of course, is
putting the entire list on emergency moderation.  

I won't go into detail here, but the major list I set up a Mailman
host site for survived a split between the two co-founders, in which
one was "fired," about three years ago.  The individual who was
removed did have several "bogey" addresses, and once he discovered
that his main addresses were moderated, blew a fuse and posted a
couple of real flames, some months afterward.  Net effect: six
resignations (out of 2500 members),  and some offlist discussion about
"if this is the way the guy really is, who needs him?"  

Hank


From shacker at birdhouse.org  Sat Feb 10 17:38:32 2007
From: shacker at birdhouse.org (Scot Hacker)
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 08:38:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listname-leave - wrong response
Message-ID: <09653D69-17DC-4770-B68E-BD3372FD67C2@birdhouse.org>

  On one of my lists, when a subscriber sends a message to listname- 
leave at domain, instead of the unsub confirmation, they get back the  
"Sorry, you're not allowed to post to this list" message (it's  
configured as a one-way list).

Any idea what could cause this?

Thanks,
Scot



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Feb 10 20:06:40 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:06:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listname-leave - wrong response
In-Reply-To: <09653D69-17DC-4770-B68E-BD3372FD67C2@birdhouse.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602007021011064008430d05ffb3@msapiro>

Scot Hacker wrote:

>  On one of my lists, when a subscriber sends a message to listname- 
>leave at domain, instead of the unsub confirmation, they get back the  
>"Sorry, you're not allowed to post to this list" message (it's  
>configured as a one-way list).
>
>Any idea what could cause this?


The alias or whatever your MTA uses to get the mail to Mailman for the
listname-leave address pipes the mail to

   /path/to/mail/mailman post listname

instead of

   /path/to/mail/mailman leave listname

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kwz-mm at commpartners.com  Sat Feb 10 21:07:16 2007
From: kwz-mm at commpartners.com (Karl Zander)
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 15:07:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Challenge/Response
In-Reply-To: <C1F249D3.41B65%bob@morsemedia.net>
References: <C1F249D3.41B65%bob@morsemedia.net>
Message-ID: <web-3672479@commpartners.com>

On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 15:54:59 -0800
  Bob Morse <bob at morsemedia.net> wrote:
> Thank you all for your insights in the 
>Challenge/Response question. I am
> convinced this is not the way to go. In fact, I used 
>some of the same
> arguments to the client when he brought it up.
> 
> The problem remains, however: How do I prevent spoofing? 
>In this case they
> have a real fear due to a board member who is soon to be 
>ejected from the
> board and have organizational membership taken away. 
>They feel he is capable
> (both emotionally and technically) of major disturbances 
>on one or more of
> about a dozen mailing lists the organization maintains.
> 
> What makes this even more of a ?challenge? is that the 
>account is on a
> shared server.


We are dealing with a similar situation now.  Some member, 
or non-member, is spoofing the From: address of members to 
post to the lists.  We have full emergency moderation 
turned on so all messages are reviewed before posting. 
 And at the MTA we have instituted various other checks 
that help prevent messages from getting to Mailman.  There 
is no (easy) technology now that can prevent this.  If the 
person is inclined to make trouble, they will.  If not 
through the lists, then by some other means. 
 Fundamentally, its not a technology problem.

--Karl

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Feb 10 21:18:26 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:18:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Challenge/Response
In-Reply-To: <web-3672479@commpartners.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702101218260031bf7dae99@msapiro>

Karl Zander wrote:
>
> Fundamentally, its not a technology problem.


Agreed, but as others have suggested, technology can help. For example,
if the 'bad guy' has a fixed IP, you can set header_filter_rules to
discard messages that have that IP in a Received: header. Of course,
that may just force him to go to dial-up for posting IF he figures out
why his messages don't make it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kwz-mm at commpartners.com  Sat Feb 10 21:32:21 2007
From: kwz-mm at commpartners.com (Karl Zander)
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 15:32:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Challenge/Response
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200702101218260031bf7dae99@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200702101218260031bf7dae99@msapiro>
Message-ID: <web-3672502@commpartners.com>

On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:18:26 -0800
  Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Karl Zander wrote:
>>
>> Fundamentally, its not a technology problem.
> 
> 
> Agreed, but as others have suggested, technology can 
>help. 


Yes.  I didn't mean to imply it could not.  We are using 
technology to help us manage the situation and its being 
effective.

But you have to be prepared to ride out the emotional part 
of this.  And if you do clamp down the lists, the person 
may go after "softer" parts of the organization if they 
are inclined to make trouble.  We have seen our interloper 
move on to a sister organization's lists.

--Karl

From dfilchak at sympatico.ca  Sun Feb 11 01:10:29 2007
From: dfilchak at sympatico.ca (Dave Filchak)
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 19:10:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approved: <password>
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007020917141405001bfdd382@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007020917141405001bfdd382@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45CE5EF5.20002@sympatico.ca>

Thanks for the reply. I am using Thunderbird and wanting to send html 
email to Mailman. I looked through the instructions on how to add a 
custom header and I am sad to say ... I don't get it. Any chance you can 
walk me through it? I have opened about:config but I am not sure what I 
am supposed to put in there and really don't want to screw up the install.

Thanks

Dave

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Dave Filchak wrote:
>
>   
>> I am trying to post to a one way (announce only) list using a user whose 
>> moderation bit is set, but am using the method described in the FAQ i.e. 
>> adding Approved: <password> to the first line of the body, with a 
>> carriage return and blank line after it. It keeps rejecting it with the 
>> standard "Sorry, this is an announce only list ...etc etc. Can someone 
>> tell me if this still works and how and perhaps how I add this to the 
>> header rather than the body?
>>     
>
>
> Yes, it works. Possible things that might be wrong are:
>
> the password - it must be the list's admin or moderator password;
> neither the site password nor a member's password will work, and it
> must not have angle brackets around it.
>
> the format of the post - if the post is HTML, the Approved: line in the
> body won't work. The Approved: line must be the first non-blank line
> in the first text/plain part of the message. If it is, it is removed
> from that part and an attempt is made to remove it from all other text
> parts of the message, but the removal from other parts is not
> guaranteed to work.
>
> In general, if the post is simple plain text, or multipart/alternative
> with text/plain and text/html alternatives, the Approved: line will
> work and it will usually be removed from both parts of a
> multipart/alternative message, but it can be left in the text/html
> part under some circumstances.
>
> If the Approved: line is an actual header rather than a body line, it
> will always be recognized and removed regardless of the MIME structure
> of the message. How to add such a header or if it is even possible
> depends on the user agent (mail client) used to compose and send the
> mail. You used Thunderbird to send this post. See
> <http://kb.mozillazine.org/Custom_headers> for information on adding
> custom headers with Thunderbird.
>
>   


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb 11 02:21:22 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 17:21:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] OT Approved: <password>
In-Reply-To: <45CE5EF5.20002@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702101721220546d241c578@msapiro>

Dave Filchak wrote:

>Thanks for the reply. I am using Thunderbird and wanting to send html 
>email to Mailman. I looked through the instructions on how to add a 
>custom header and I am sad to say ... I don't get it. Any chance you can 
>walk me through it? I have opened about:config but I am not sure what I 
>am supposed to put in there and really don't want to screw up the install.

In about:config scroll down to mail.compose.other.header which probably
says Status->default, Type->string and Value will be empty.
Right-click that line (or control-click if you don't have a
multi-button mouse), select 'modify' from the context menu and then
enter 'Approved' (without quotes and without a colon) in the dialog
box and click OK.

Note that there might already be headers listed in the value of
mail.compose.other.header if you have added any customized headers to
any filters. If this is the case, just add Approved to the end of the
list separated by a comma and no spaces.

Then, when you are composing mail, if you click the down arrow you use
to select To:, Cc:, etc. for addresses, you will be able to select
Approved:. Do that and type the password on that line where you would
normally type an email address.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From shacker at birdhouse.org  Sun Feb 11 06:48:59 2007
From: shacker at birdhouse.org (Scot Hacker)
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2007 21:48:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listname-leave - wrong response
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007021011064008430d05ffb3@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007021011064008430d05ffb3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <11CAFA4A-BB39-4168-B199-F8B680250DD9@birdhouse.org>


On Feb 10, 2007, at 11:06 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>>  On one of my lists, when a subscriber sends a message to listname-
>> leave at domain, instead of the unsub confirmation, they get back the
>> "Sorry, you're not allowed to post to this list" message (it's
>> configured as a one-way list).
>>
>> Any idea what could cause this?
>
>
> The alias or whatever your MTA uses to get the mail to Mailman for the
> listname-leave address pipes the mail to
>
>    /path/to/mail/mailman post listname
>
> instead of
>
>    /path/to/mail/mailman leave listname

Hmm... this is a cPanel system, and the entire contents of /etc/ 
aliases is:

mailman-admin: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman  
admin mailman"
mailman-bounces: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman  
bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman  
confirm mailman"
mailman-join: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman join  
mailman"
mailman-leave: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman  
leave mailman"
mailman-owner: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman  
owner mailman"
mailman-request: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman  
request mailman"
mailman-subscribe: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman  
subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/ 
mailman unsubscribe mailman"
mailman: /dev/null
mailman-loopback: /dev/null
owner-mailman: mailman-admin

In other words, no references to specific lists, or to -leave for any  
specific list, are in that file. Maybe cPanel keeps a separate  
aliases file somewhere, but I couldn't locate it if it does. Any  
cPanel experts have a clue where the equivalent file is?

Thanks,
Scot



From dfilchak at sympatico.ca  Sun Feb 11 08:54:36 2007
From: dfilchak at sympatico.ca (Dave Filchak)
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 02:54:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] OT Approved: <password>
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200702101721220546d241c578@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200702101721220546d241c578@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45CECBBC.2070609@sympatico.ca>

Thanks very much ... works like a charm.

Dave


Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Dave Filchak wrote:
>
>   
>> Thanks for the reply. I am using Thunderbird and wanting to send html 
>> email to Mailman. I looked through the instructions on how to add a 
>> custom header and I am sad to say ... I don't get it. Any chance you can 
>> walk me through it? I have opened about:config but I am not sure what I 
>> am supposed to put in there and really don't want to screw up the install.
>>     
>
> In about:config scroll down to mail.compose.other.header which probably
> says Status->default, Type->string and Value will be empty.
> Right-click that line (or control-click if you don't have a
> multi-button mouse), select 'modify' from the context menu and then
> enter 'Approved' (without quotes and without a colon) in the dialog
> box and click OK.
>
> Note that there might already be headers listed in the value of
> mail.compose.other.header if you have added any customized headers to
> any filters. If this is the case, just add Approved to the end of the
> list separated by a comma and no spaces.
>
> Then, when you are composing mail, if you click the down arrow you use
> to select To:, Cc:, etc. for addresses, you will be able to select
> Approved:. Do that and type the password on that line where you would
> normally type an email address.
>
>   


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


From bob at morsemedia.net  Sun Feb 11 14:25:43 2007
From: bob at morsemedia.net (Robert Morse)
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 05:25:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Challenge/Response
In-Reply-To: <web-3672502@commpartners.com>
Message-ID: <C1F45957.9BC0B%bob@morsemedia.net>

Thanks for everyone's thoughts and suggestions. I have recommended setting
each list on emergency moderation. They have about a dozen lists for various
tasks. So, I suggested each list be assigned a moderator/administrator
(Currently one person manages all lists). Since the fear is the person will
be spoofing the From field, the moderators will have to review the contents
of each message and make a judgment about its validity. If there is doubt
the moderator can always do a manual challenge/response to the supposed
sender to see if they really sent a particular message.

I agree that this is as much a social/emotional issue as a technical one.
The organization needs to be very clear to everyone in how the handle the
problem and then just weather the storm.

On 2/10/07 12:32 PM, "Karl Zander" <kwz-mm at commpartners.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:18:26 -0800
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>> Karl Zander wrote:
>>> 
>>> Fundamentally, its not a technology problem.
>> 
>> 
>> Agreed, but as others have suggested, technology can
>> help. 
> 
> 
> Yes.  I didn't mean to imply it could not.  We are using
> technology to help us manage the situation and its being
> effective.
> 
> But you have to be prepared to ride out the emotional part
> of this.  And if you do clamp down the lists, the person
> may go after "softer" parts of the organization if they
> are inclined to make trouble.  We have seen our interloper
> move on to a sister organization's lists.
> 
> --Karl

-- 
Bob Morse
Morse Media
http://www.morsemedia.net
707-444-9566


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb 11 17:39:54 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 08:39:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listname-leave - wrong response
In-Reply-To: <11CAFA4A-BB39-4168-B199-F8B680250DD9@birdhouse.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702110839540640bf7db116@msapiro>

Scot Hacker wrote:
>
>Hmm... this is a cPanel system,


First see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>
and recognize from that that anything I tell you is only a guess.


>and the entire contents of /etc/ 
>aliases is:
>
>mailman-admin: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman  
>admin mailman"
>mailman-bounces: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman  
>bounces mailman"
>mailman-confirm: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman  
>confirm mailman"
>mailman-join: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman join  
>mailman"
>mailman-leave: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman  
>leave mailman"
>mailman-owner: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman  
>owner mailman"
>mailman-request: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman  
>request mailman"
>mailman-subscribe: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman  
>subscribe mailman"
>mailman-unsubscribe: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/ 
>mailman unsubscribe mailman"
>mailman: /dev/null
>mailman-loopback: /dev/null
>owner-mailman: mailman-admin
>
>In other words, no references to specific lists, or to -leave for any  
>specific list, are in that file. Maybe cPanel keeps a separate  
>aliases file somewhere, but I couldn't locate it if it does. Any  
>cPanel experts have a clue where the equivalent file is?


What is your MTA? Your MTA's configuration would probably indicate what
it is doing.

If it is Postfix (or even if not), you might find aliases in
/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/data/.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From shacker at birdhouse.org  Sun Feb 11 20:58:09 2007
From: shacker at birdhouse.org (Scot Hacker)
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:58:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listname-leave - wrong response
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200702110839540640bf7db116@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200702110839540640bf7db116@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6F99B5EE-D289-4C4A-B892-4C8C0B5D013C@birdhouse.org>


On Feb 11, 2007, at 8:39 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Scot Hacker wrote:
>>
>> Hmm... this is a cPanel system,
>

OK, found 'em.
For the archives: On cPanel systems, Mailman aliases are stored in
/etc/valiases/[domain]

So now back to the original problem... for the domain in question,  
where sending to listname-leave at domain results in the user getting  
back a "Not allowed to post" message rather than an unsub  
confirmation, the line looks totally normal:

listname-leave at domain.com: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/ 
mailman leave listname_domain.com"

So that looks fine, and has never been altered.  Sending a message to  
listname-unsubscribe has the same result as listname-leave. Other  
theories?

Thanks,
Scot



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb 11 21:23:05 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 12:23:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listname-leave - wrong response
In-Reply-To: <6F99B5EE-D289-4C4A-B892-4C8C0B5D013C@birdhouse.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702111223050968940002ad@msapiro>

Scot Hacker wrote:
>
>OK, found 'em.
>For the archives: On cPanel systems, Mailman aliases are stored in
>/etc/valiases/[domain]
>
>So now back to the original problem... for the domain in question,  
>where sending to listname-leave at domain results in the user getting  
>back a "Not allowed to post" message rather than an unsub  
>confirmation, the line looks totally normal:
>
>listname-leave at domain.com: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/ 
>mailman leave listname_domain.com"
>
>So that looks fine, and has never been altered.  Sending a message to  
>listname-unsubscribe has the same result as listname-leave. Other  
>theories?


Is the user removed from the list?

What is in the list's General Options->goodbye_msg and the
send_goodbye_msg flag?

What is the setting for the list's Privacy options...->Subscription
rules->subscribe_policy?

Does this generate a pending request in adminbd?

Is there anything in Mailman's 'vette' or 'subscribe' logs?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From shacker at birdhouse.org  Sun Feb 11 22:11:44 2007
From: shacker at birdhouse.org (Scot Hacker)
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 13:11:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listname-leave - wrong response
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200702111223050968940002ad@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200702111223050968940002ad@msapiro>
Message-ID: <10E8CDBB-E58E-40A9-9077-AA622D0F7EEB@birdhouse.org>


On Feb 11, 2007, at 12:23 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Is the user removed from the list?

No.

>
> What is in the list's General Options->goodbye_msg and the
> send_goodbye_msg flag?

One line of plain text. It's set to "Yes."

>
> What is the setting for the list's Privacy options...->Subscription
> rules->subscribe_policy?

Hmm... None of the three options are checked.

>
> Does this generate a pending request in adminbd?

No.

>
> Is there anything in Mailman's 'vette' or 'subscribe' logs?

Yes in vette:
Feb 11 13:09:47 2007 (30321) replied and discard
appears immediately when the request is received.

Nothing in subscribe log.

Thanks,
Scot



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 12 03:12:55 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 18:12:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listname-leave - wrong response
In-Reply-To: <10E8CDBB-E58E-40A9-9077-AA622D0F7EEB@birdhouse.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602007021118125506091d3a27d8@msapiro>

Scot Hacker wrote:
>
>On Feb 11, 2007, at 12:23 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> What is the setting for the list's Privacy options...->Subscription
>> rules->subscribe_policy?
>
>Hmm... None of the three options are checked.


Actually, I meant unsubscribe_policy, but that isn't it anyway..

There is an issue with subscribe_policy, but it doesn't impact your
present issue. It seems the policy is likely set to None, but the
mm_cfg option ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE is set to No so the option doesn't
appear on the page. Unless you really want open subscription without
confirmation, I suggest setting the option you do want.


>> Is there anything in Mailman's 'vette' or 'subscribe' logs?
>
>Yes in vette:
>Feb 11 13:09:47 2007 (30321) replied and discard
>appears immediately when the request is received.


The admin Autoresponder page has autorespond_requests set to Yes,
w/discard so the response in autoresponse_request_text is sent and the
request is discarded.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dgood at independence.k12.ia.us  Mon Feb 12 17:44:19 2007
From: dgood at independence.k12.ia.us (Dan Good)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 10:44:19 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Groups
Message-ID: <5A71ABEE-2195-4688-AE3C-E52A24393902@independence.k12.ia.us>

Hello,

I have recently rebuilt my mail server. Now, after the rebuild I'm  
finding that userA who is a member of groupZ requires approval to  
send to groupZ even though they are a member. How do I set this so  
that doesn't happen.

Also, I'm finding that when userA sends to groupZ I get both a  
notification from the mailman group about this and a notifacation  
from the mailman group concerning the notifiacation being sent as  
well as a notification concerning the initial groupZ. Again, I'm a  
bit confused as to where to change these properties.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

Dan Good
Independence School District
Independence, Iowa

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 12 18:35:22 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 09:35:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Groups
In-Reply-To: <5A71ABEE-2195-4688-AE3C-E52A24393902@independence.k12.ia.us>
Message-ID: <PC17602007021209352206250d05fec7@msapiro>

Dan Good wrote:
>
>I have recently rebuilt my mail server. Now, after the rebuild I'm  
>finding that userA who is a member of groupZ requires approval to  
>send to groupZ even though they are a member. How do I set this so  
>that doesn't happen.


Does this happen with all users' posts, just some users' posts or only
one user?

What is the reason (found in the notice, the admindb interface and the
'vette' log) why the post is held?


>Also, I'm finding that when userA sends to groupZ I get both a  
>notification from the mailman group about this and a notifacation  
>from the mailman group concerning the notifiacation being sent as  
>well as a notification concerning the initial groupZ. Again, I'm a  
>bit confused as to where to change these properties.


Can you be more specific about the subject and contents of the latter
two messages?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From vancleef at lostwells.net  Mon Feb 12 18:51:18 2007
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (vancleef at lostwells.net)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 10:51:18 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Best version of Python to use with Mailman 2.1.9?
Message-ID: <200702121751.l1CHpI5o005095@julie.lostwells.net>

Now that I've got Mailman up and running relatively smoothly in
"production" mode, I've taken some time to revisit questions primarily
involving Python.  The Mailman installation I am running has several
non-standard lashups and workarounds that really need some cleanup,
and Mark Sapiro has convinced me that using Python resources for that
work, plus some extensions, is something I ought to consider
seriously.  

I was aware, when I downloaded the Mailman 2.1.9 sources, that the
recommended Python is given as 2.4.3.  A trip to the Python site
showed that 2.4.4 was the latest in that chain, and strongly suggested
the current version, 2.5.  Since I was under severe time pressure to
get my site up and running, I did fairly simple ./configure, make,
make test, and make install runs, which produced a usable
installation, ending up with the Python 2.5 version.   However, I was
aware that the Python 2.5 build was not particularly complete, and
there were a few regression tests that failed.  

Accordingly, I've audited the Python build situation for both 2.4.4
and 2.5 on Sun Sparc Solaris 9 and 10, using various versions of gcc
and Studio 11 (the Sun Solaris devsys, formerly "Forte").  The
situtation turned out to be far worse than I had thought, and turned
into something of a porting effort.  

I'm left with a nagging impression that perhaps I should fall back to
Python 2.4.4.  I tried to weave my way through the Sourceforge bug
tracker to find out whether I was reinventing the wheel and was unable
to pull up some bug reports listed in the README's in the Python 2.5
distribution that pertained to problems I was seeing on my builds.  Do
the Mailman developers have strong feelings about Python 2.4.4 vs. 2.5?  

Getting both versions of Python to find needed libraries and include
files for such things as Tcl/Tk turned out to be a small matter of
reworking the distribution setup.py.  Once I realized that Makefiles
and environment arguments didn't seem to influence the Python modules
invoked during the build process, adding the needed code to the Python
modules got results.  There were also some minor corrections to
existing Python code.  It leaves me with a strong impression that I'm
sailing in uncharted water.  

I'm a bit dismayed to discover that Python 2.5 includes a ctypes
extension with a very GNU-specific libfbbi implementation.  The only
thing I could find to compile it was a local build of gcc 4.1.1.
Other versions of gcc, including the gcc 3.4.3 that is included with
the Solaris 10 O/S, failed to build this library properly.  

My preference is for a build using the Studio 11 devsys.  I can live
without a working ctypes in 2.5.  But considering the basic changes
needed to get either 2.4.4 or 2.5 to do something resembling a
complete build, I'm concerned about reliability and robustness.
Python is a new language to me, and while I'm beginning to get my arms
around it, I think that learning it by getting the distribution to
build is a strange way to go about this learning.

In short, should I fall back to 2.4.4?

Hank

From dgood at independence.k12.ia.us  Mon Feb 12 18:52:20 2007
From: dgood at independence.k12.ia.us (Dan Good)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 11:52:20 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Groups
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007021209352206250d05fec7@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007021209352206250d05fec7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <F9216069-66A2-4A6C-ADD7-1BFFDDC1F0B0@independence.k12.ia.us>


On Feb 12, 2007, at 11:35 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Dan Good wrote:
>>
>> I have recently rebuilt my mail server. Now, after the rebuild I'm
>> finding that userA who is a member of groupZ requires approval to
>> send to groupZ even though they are a member. How do I set this so
>> that doesn't happen.
>
>
> Does this happen with all users' posts, just some users' posts or only
> one user?
>
All users
> What is the reason (found in the notice, the admindb interface and the
> 'vette' log) why the post is held?
>
How do I get to the admindb interface?
>
>> Also, I'm finding that when userA sends to groupZ I get both a
>> notification from the mailman group about this and a notifacation
>> from the mailman group concerning the notifiacation being sent as
>> well as a notification concerning the initial groupZ. Again, I'm a
>> bit confused as to where to change these properties.
>
>
> Can you be more specific about the subject and contents of the latter
> two messages?

  An example would be userA sends to groupZ. I get a notice form  
mailman-owner concerning appoval of the e-mail. I get a notice from  
groupZ concerning approval, and I get a notice from mailman-owner  
concerning approval forn the approval of the groupZ notice going out.  
This is for all users.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

Thanks

Dan Good
>


From dgood at independence.k12.ia.us  Mon Feb 12 19:08:24 2007
From: dgood at independence.k12.ia.us (Dan Good)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 12:08:24 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Groups
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007021209352206250d05fec7@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007021209352206250d05fec7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <3181E2EC-10EA-4FBC-BF31-EC41857F7474@independence.k12.ia.us>

Mark,

One of the messages states "Message has implicit destination"

Thanks

Dan
On Feb 12, 2007, at 11:35 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Dan Good wrote:
>>
>> I have recently rebuilt my mail server. Now, after the rebuild I'm
>> finding that userA who is a member of groupZ requires approval to
>> send to groupZ even though they are a member. How do I set this so
>> that doesn't happen.
>
>
> Does this happen with all users' posts, just some users' posts or only
> one user?
>
> What is the reason (found in the notice, the admindb interface and the
> 'vette' log) why the post is held?
>
>
>> Also, I'm finding that when userA sends to groupZ I get both a
>> notification from the mailman group about this and a notifacation
>> from the mailman group concerning the notifiacation being sent as
>> well as a notification concerning the initial groupZ. Again, I'm a
>> bit confused as to where to change these properties.
>
>
> Can you be more specific about the subject and contents of the latter
> two messages?
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 12 19:34:33 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 10:34:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Groups
In-Reply-To: <3181E2EC-10EA-4FBC-BF31-EC41857F7474@independence.k12.ia.us>
Message-ID: <PC17602007021210343300462e69e1ef@msapiro>

Dan Good wrote:
>
>One of the messages states "Message has implicit destination"

and:

>> Dan Good wrote:
>>>
>>> I have recently rebuilt my mail server.


Did you change any domain names?

Implicit destination means the list posting address or an acceptable
alias is not found in any To: or Cc: in the post.

See the admin interface Privacy options->Recipient
filters->require_explicit_destination and acceptable_aliases.

If you did change any domain names, if the change affected only the
email domain and not the web domain, you can just change General
Options->host_name to be the correct email domain.

Otherwise see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp>
and don't overlook the section on "Existing versus new lists".
	
-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 12 19:59:41 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 10:59:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Groups
In-Reply-To: <F9216069-66A2-4A6C-ADD7-1BFFDDC1F0B0@independence.k12.ia.us>
Message-ID: <PC176020070212105941006241bb7fc7@msapiro>

Dan Good wrote:
>
>How do I get to the admindb interface?


Something like http://www.example.com/mailman/admindb/listname or via
the "Tend to pending moderator requests" link on the admin pages.


>> Can you be more specific about the subject and contents of the latter
>> two messages?
>
>  An example would be userA sends to groupZ. I get a notice form  
>mailman-owner concerning appoval of the e-mail. I get a notice from  
>groupZ concerning approval, and I get a notice from mailman-owner  
>concerning approval forn the approval of the groupZ notice going out.  
>This is for all users.


Normally, you would receive one message "From:
listname-owner at example.com" with "Subject: listname post from userA
requires approval". The body of this message is something like

--------------------------------
As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the
following mailing list posting:

    List:    groupZ
    From:    userA
    Subject: ...
    Reason:  ...

At your convenience, visit:

    http://www.example.com/mailman/admindb/listname

to approve or deny the request.
--------------------------------

and the original post is attached, and a confirmation message you can
reply to is attached.

This would appear to be the second of your three messages. Can you give
me similar detail about the others. It appears that there may be some
bouncing or MTA misdirection going on.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Feb 12 20:03:20 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 13:03:20 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Best version of Python to use with Mailman
 2.1.9?
In-Reply-To: <200702121751.l1CHpI5o005095@julie.lostwells.net>
References: <200702121751.l1CHpI5o005095@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <p06240502c1f66a05ecec@[10.0.1.14]>

At 10:51 AM -0700 2/12/07, vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:

>  I was aware, when I downloaded the Mailman 2.1.9 sources, that the
>  recommended Python is given as 2.4.3.

That recommendation may be a little old.

>                                         A trip to the Python site
>  showed that 2.4.4 was the latest in that chain, and strongly suggested
>  the current version, 2.5.

Use the latest version of 2.4.x.  As you've demonstrated, the 2.5 
stuff is not yet fully baked, and Mailman 2.1.8 and earlier are not 
compatible with it.  $DEITY-only-knows what else they're going to 
break in the process of trying to "fix" 2.5.

I'll update the FAQ Wizard to reflect this.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
Co-author of SAGE Booklet #15 "Internet Postmaster: Duties and 
Responsibilities"
Founding Member and Platinum Individual Sponsor of LOPSA: 
<http://www.lopsa.org>
Papers: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4> LinkedIn Profile: 
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Feb 12 20:14:44 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 13:14:44 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Best version of Python to use with Mailman
 2.1.9?
In-Reply-To: <p06240502c1f66a05ecec@[10.0.1.14]>
References: <200702121751.l1CHpI5o005095@julie.lostwells.net>
	<p06240502c1f66a05ecec@[10.0.1.14]>
Message-ID: <p06240503c1f66ce6999b@[10.0.1.14]>

At 1:03 PM -0600 2/12/07, Brad Knowles wrote:

>  Use the latest version of 2.4.x.  As you've demonstrated, the 2.5
>  stuff is not yet fully baked, and Mailman 2.1.8 and earlier are not
>  compatible with it.  $DEITY-only-knows what else they're going to
>  break in the process of trying to "fix" 2.5.
>
>  I'll update the FAQ Wizard to reflect this.

We also need to get the manual at 
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node2.html> updated as well. 
Barry?

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
Co-author of SAGE Booklet #15 "Internet Postmaster: Duties and 
Responsibilities"
Founding Member and Platinum Individual Sponsor of LOPSA: 
<http://www.lopsa.org>
Papers: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4> LinkedIn Profile: 
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From mark at paxton.plus.com  Tue Feb 13 00:37:19 2007
From: mark at paxton.plus.com (Mark Paxton)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 23:37:19 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Umbrealla list member verification
Message-ID: <45D0FA2F.7000701@paxton.plus.com>

Hi,

I'm after some advice about the set up of my mailing lists... any help 
would be appreciated!

I have an number of umbrella lists that sends to a combination of 3 
subscriber lists.  e.g. U1 sends to S1, S2 and S3, but U2 sends to S1 
and S2 only.

I'd like it so that any member of a subscriber list can send to an 
umbrella list... but I'm hot sure how to do that.  I think the easiest 
way would be to set up the sender filter so that it allows members of 
another list, though I don't know if that's possible.

Any suggestions would be great!

Thanks,
Mark

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 13 01:20:01 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 16:20:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Umbrealla list member verification
In-Reply-To: <45D0FA2F.7000701@paxton.plus.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007021216200108751f8528ec@msapiro>

Mark Paxton wrote:
>
>I have an number of umbrella lists that sends to a combination of 3 
>subscriber lists.  e.g. U1 sends to S1, S2 and S3, but U2 sends to S1 
>and S2 only.
>
>I'd like it so that any member of a subscriber list can send to an 
>umbrella list... but I'm hot sure how to do that.  I think the easiest 
>way would be to set up the sender filter so that it allows members of 
>another list, though I don't know if that's possible.


I think this should be in the FAQ. I'll try to add it soon.

Anyway, you have three issues:

The first is if S1, S2 and S3 have Privacy options...->Recipient
filters->require_explicit_destination = Yes, then the posting address
for U1 needs to be in Privacy options...->Recipient
filters->acceptable_aliases of S1, S2 and S3 and the posting address
for U2 needs to be in Privacy options...->Recipient
filters->acceptable_aliases of S1 and S2.

The second issue is the membership issue you have identified. There is
a patch at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103>
that will allow you to put @S1, @S2 and @S3 in Privacy
options...->Sender filters->accept_these_nonmembers of U1 and @S1 and
@S2 in Privacy options...->Sender filters->accept_these_nonmembers of
U2. This will allow any member of S1, S2 or S3 to post to U1 and
similarly for U2. Without this patch, if you want the sublist members
posts to go through to all sublists from the umbrella without being
held, You either have to maintain accept_these_nonmembers of U1 and U2
outside of Mailman (you could do it whith a script run by cron that
massages the output from bin/list_members into an input file for
bin/config_list), or you have to essentially run open lists.

The third issue is when a mumber of S1 posts to U1, her post is held by
S2 and S3. There are two ways to deal with this. if the mm_cfg.py
option USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER is Yes or True, you can add the U1-bounces
address to accept_these_nonmembers of S1, S2 and S3, and similarly for
U2, S1 and S2. In any case, you can add the U1-bounces address as a
member with delivery disabled and password reminders off to S1, S2 and
S3, and similarly for U2, S1 and S2.

Also see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.005.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mobiledreamers at gmail.com  Tue Feb 13 01:53:21 2007
From: mobiledreamers at gmail.com (mobiledreamers at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 16:53:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Regarding converting mailman to a yahoo google
	groups type of interface
Message-ID: <c1870d60702121653m38ba5c3aq6eae53d3381170ba@mail.gmail.com>

Hello

I love and use python a lot. And I m trying to make mailman, into a yahoo
groups kind of interface,

In that I want to find out if any of you guys tried to do this and integrate
it into another webservice?

Does mailman uses coroutines to send email, because a coroutine based email
gateway can support much more email messages perday than a thread based one

Mark

From barry at python.org  Tue Feb 13 02:44:43 2007
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 20:44:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Regarding converting mailman to a yahoo google
	groups type of interface
In-Reply-To: <c1870d60702121653m38ba5c3aq6eae53d3381170ba@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c1870d60702121653m38ba5c3aq6eae53d3381170ba@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <118D7485-DA30-4F2B-907E-41C9F97A136E@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Feb 12, 2007, at 7:53 PM, mobiledreamers at gmail.com wrote:

> I love and use python a lot. And I m trying to make mailman, into a  
> yahoo
> groups kind of interface,
>
> In that I want to find out if any of you guys tried to do this and  
> integrate
> it into another webservice?
>
> Does mailman uses coroutines to send email, because a coroutine  
> based email
> gateway can support much more email messages perday than a thread  
> based one

Hi Mark,

Questions like this are probably best asked on the mailman-developers  
list.  Please repost your message there.

Thanks,
- -Barry

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin)

iQCVAwUBRdEYEHEjvBPtnXfVAQIS/wP/R4Np37JoRnipUSv9OV069RAGC7wL958e
4myR0qO+7J380gsCUANdElUQHfs8af3tTfbn/XlMUwZYela9D5cYpvdtLKOf2FsS
+uieCZBENTA99TMFQQ4K6oezACPPPJ5xSDBgehhHA58t1srjon+BB4hd9QoVRySG
FesCh42hRpE=
=Wgkv
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From billb at mousa.uk.com  Tue Feb 13 08:42:34 2007
From: billb at mousa.uk.com (Bill Bedford)
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 07:42:34 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cron errors
Message-ID: <20070213074234437875.6654c750@mousa.uk.com>

I'm getting a number of errors from cron scripts similar to this:-

  File "/Users/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip", line 154, in ?
    main()
  File "/Users/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip", line 110, in main
    mlist = MailList.MailList(name, lock=0)
  File "/Users/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__
    self.Load()
  File "/Users/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 629, in Load
    dict, e = self.__load(file)
  File "/Users/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 595, in __load
    fp = open(dbfile)
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 
'/Users/mailman/lists/e4um/config.pck'


ls on /Users/mailman/lists/e4um gives

-rw-rw----   1 www      mailman  46931 Feb 13 01:45 config.pck
-rw-rw----   1 mailman  mailman  46895 Feb 13 01:37 config.pck.last
drwxrwsr-x   4 mailman  mailman    264 Feb  5 12:44 en
-rwxrwxr-x   1 mailman  mailman     46 Feb 12 10:02 pending.pck
-rwxrwxr-x   1 mailman  mailman     24 Feb 12 10:02 request.pck

Should config.pck be owned by mailman? or is there something else wrong?
-- 
Bill Bedford

From shacker at birdhouse.org  Tue Feb 13 17:17:24 2007
From: shacker at birdhouse.org (Scot Hacker)
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 08:17:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listname-leave - wrong response
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007021118125506091d3a27d8@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007021118125506091d3a27d8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <2955F9DF-96BE-4DE4-9948-706DC20B0B70@birdhouse.org>


On Feb 11, 2007, at 6:12 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>
> Actually, I meant unsubscribe_policy, but that isn't it anyway..
>
> There is an issue with subscribe_policy, but it doesn't impact your
> present issue. It seems the policy is likely set to None, but the
> mm_cfg option ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE is set to No so the option doesn't
> appear on the page. Unless you really want open subscription without
> confirmation, I suggest setting the option you do want.

That setting is intentional - this is a list with special needs (lots  
of cell phone subscribers who have much more trouble unsubbing than  
normal users).

>
>
>>> Is there anything in Mailman's 'vette' or 'subscribe' logs?
>>
>> Yes in vette:
>> Feb 11 13:09:47 2007 (30321) replied and discard
>> appears immediately when the request is received.
>
>
> The admin Autoresponder page has autorespond_requests set to Yes,
> w/discard so the response in autoresponse_request_text is sent and the
> request is discarded.

Bingo - that was it! Many thanks Mark. Much appreciated.

Scot


--
 >>> Birdhouse Hosting <<<
Custom web and mail hosting services
http://hosting.birdhouse.org



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 13 17:51:32 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 08:51:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cron errors
In-Reply-To: <20070213074234437875.6654c750@mousa.uk.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702130851320413c5b4651d@msapiro>

Bill Bedford wrote:

>I'm getting a number of errors from cron scripts similar to this:-
>
>  File "/Users/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip", line 154, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/Users/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip", line 110, in main
>    mlist = MailList.MailList(name, lock=0)
>  File "/Users/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__
>    self.Load()
>  File "/Users/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 629, in Load
>    dict, e = self.__load(file)
>  File "/Users/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 595, in __load
>    fp = open(dbfile)
>IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 
>'/Users/mailman/lists/e4um/config.pck'
>
>
>ls on /Users/mailman/lists/e4um gives
>
>-rw-rw----   1 www      mailman  46931 Feb 13 01:45 config.pck
>-rw-rw----   1 mailman  mailman  46895 Feb 13 01:37 config.pck.last
>drwxrwsr-x   4 mailman  mailman    264 Feb  5 12:44 en
>-rwxrwxr-x   1 mailman  mailman     46 Feb 12 10:02 pending.pck
>-rwxrwxr-x   1 mailman  mailman     24 Feb 12 10:02 request.pck
>
>Should config.pck be owned by mailman? or is there something else wrong?

The owner of config.pck will change depending on whether it was last
updated via the web interface or via a qrunner. That is not the
problem as it should always be group 'mailman' and all processes
including the crons should run as group mailman. That is the question?
Is the user running this cron in the mailman group. If so, is SELinux
or some other security policy managment possibly involved?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jeff at wildernessfringe.com  Tue Feb 13 17:58:00 2007
From: jeff at wildernessfringe.com (Jeff Pflueger)
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 08:58:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change hundreds of digest subscribers to non-digest
Message-ID: <45D1EE18.7090707@wildernessfringe.com>

Thanks for any help on this.
We have a mailman list set-up as a newsletter type list.
We'd like to send basic html formatted email.
This seems to work seamlessly for regular subscribers - they receive the
html email that was sent.
However, "digest" subscribers get a message about the html being
"scrubbed" and are provided with a link to view the message - not good
at all.

So I'd like to resolve this problem by either
1 - Disabling the digest option (easy) and then changing all the
"digest" subscribers to regular subscribers (this appears to be
difficult - doing it by hand would be impossible - big list) How does
one do this?

2 - Somehow prevent the digests from "scrubbing" html

Any help would be great!  Thanks.

Jeff


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Feb 13 19:27:38 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 12:27:38 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change hundreds of digest subscribers to
 non-digest
In-Reply-To: <45D1EE18.7090707@wildernessfringe.com>
References: <45D1EE18.7090707@wildernessfringe.com>
Message-ID: <p06240501c1f7b2a8f29e@[10.0.1.102]>

At 8:58 AM -0800 2/13/07, Jeff Pflueger wrote:

>  So I'd like to resolve this problem by either
>  1 - Disabling the digest option (easy) and then changing all the
>  "digest" subscribers to regular subscribers (this appears to be
>  difficult - doing it by hand would be impossible - big list) How does
>  one do this?

Use "withlist".  There are plenty of examples in the FAQ Wizard and 
the archives.

>  2 - Somehow prevent the digests from "scrubbing" html

That's not really feasible.  The problem is that the process of 
creating the digest does all sorts of things to the message which is 
not compatible with HTML.  So, while you technically could change the 
source code in your version of Mailman to remove the Scrubber 
component from the digest process, the result simply wouldn't work.


Moreover, Mailman usually does a *lot* of things to messages as they 
are passing through, and even if you go out of your way to avoid most 
of them, you're still gambling that the input HTML will be formatted 
in such a way that the minimal modifcations won't hopelessly screw it 
up beyond recognition.

That's a pretty big bet.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
Co-author of SAGE Booklet #15 "Internet Postmaster: Duties and 
Responsibilities"
Founding Member and Platinum Individual Sponsor of LOPSA: 
<http://www.lopsa.org>
Papers: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4> LinkedIn Profile: 
<http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Tue Feb 13 20:11:01 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 13:11:01 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Group mismatch error
Message-ID: <200702131911.l1DJB1bS000808@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

I am having a problem with Mailman.  I have two test machines.
On one (Sun Solaris 10) I installed Mailman 2.1.8 and then upgraded
to 2.1.9.  On the other (Ubuntu dapper), I installed the Mailman
2.1.5 package.  Both installations worked after some simple fixups.

As the Ubuntu Mailman package is 2.1.5 (i.e., some older version with
Ubuntu/Debian changes that have not been sent back to the developers),
I decided to build a Ubuntu/Debian package using the Mailman 2.1.9
source.  After a few problems I built a package.

I installed the package on Ubuntu, replacing the 2.1.5.  When I sent
mail to one of my test lists, I got this message:

Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; Command died with status 2:
    "/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post vm6bsftest3". Command output:
    Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to
    be executed as group "daemon", but the system's mail server executed
    the mail script as group "nogroup".  Try tweaking the mail server
    to run the script as group "daemon", or re-run configure,  providing
    the command line option `--with-mail-gid=nogroup'.

I then ran bin/check_perms -f, and this is the output:

vm6%% sudo /usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms -f
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/icons (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/Mailman (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/bin (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/cron (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/mail (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/scripts (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/templates (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/zh_CN (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/ar (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/ia (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/vi (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/zh_TW (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/zh_CN/LC_MESSAGES (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/ar/LC_MESSAGES (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/ia/LC_MESSAGES (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/vi/LC_MESSAGES (fixing)
directory permissions must be 02775: /var/lib/mailman/messages/zh_TW/LC_MESSAGES (fixing)
/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db owned by root (must be owned by list (fixing)
Problems found: 19
Re-run as list (or root) with -f flag to fix
vm6%% sudo /usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms -f
No problems found
vm6%%

I sent another test message to the same list, and I got this error
messsage:

Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; Command died with status 2: 
    "/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post vm6bsftest3". Command output:
    Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to
    be executed as group "daemon", but the system's mail server executed
    the mail script as group "list".  Try tweaking the mail server to
    run the script as group "daemon", or re-run configure,  providing
    the command line option `--with-mail-gid=list'.

The only differences between the first error and the second are

     Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group
     "daemon", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as
     group "nogroup".   ("nogroup" ==> "list")

     ... or re-run configure,  providing the command line option
     `--with-mail-gid=nogroup'.   (nogroup ==> list)

When I built the Ubuntu 2.1.9 package, the configure had

     --with-mail-gid=daemon

and I assume that the same was true of the Ubuntu 2.1.5 package I had
initially installed.

My questions are these:

1) Where is this group test being made?

2) What in the "check_perms" run caused the change in the message from
   "nogroup" to "list"?

3) My MTA is Postfix.  The 

        /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman

   executable has ownership

        root:list

   in both the Ubuntu 2.1.9 and 2.1.5 installations.
   Is there some file whose ownership has to change to correct this
   mismatch reported in the error message?

Thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 13 20:13:51 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:13:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change hundreds of digest subscribers
	tonon-digest
In-Reply-To: <p06240501c1f7b2a8f29e@[10.0.1.102]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702131113510850eb691085@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 8:58 AM -0800 2/13/07, Jeff Pflueger wrote:
>
>>  2 - Somehow prevent the digests from "scrubbing" html
>
>That's not really feasible.  The problem is that the process of 
>creating the digest does all sorts of things to the message which is 
>not compatible with HTML.  So, while you technically could change the 
>source code in your version of Mailman to remove the Scrubber 
>component from the digest process, the result simply wouldn't work.


The above is correct as far as 'plain' format digests are concerned,
but 'MIME' format digests aren't scrubbed because each individual
messages MIME structure is maintained in the MIME format digest.

So you could set mime_is_default_digest to MIME, and then use withlist
as in Brad's answer to 1 to set all current subscribers to MIME. The
problem with this is that different MUAs render the MIME digest
differently. Users with non-MIME aware MUA's will not like it at all.
Some other user's MUAs will show each message as an attachment which
some find annoying.

OTOH, you could just suggest that those users who don't like the
scrubbed 'plain' digest try the MIME digest instead and choose for
themselves which is better.
	
-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 13 20:35:41 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:35:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Group mismatch error
In-Reply-To: <200702131911.l1DJB1bS000808@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702131135410819abbcbf7c@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:

>I decided to build a Ubuntu/Debian package using the Mailman 2.1.9
>source.  After a few problems I built a package.
>
>I installed the package on Ubuntu, replacing the 2.1.5.  When I sent
>mail to one of my test lists, I got this message:
>
>Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; Command died with status 2:
>    "/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post vm6bsftest3". Command output:
>    Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to
>    be executed as group "daemon", but the system's mail server executed
>    the mail script as group "nogroup".  Try tweaking the mail server
>    to run the script as group "daemon", or re-run configure,  providing
>    the command line option `--with-mail-gid=nogroup'.
>
>I then ran bin/check_perms -f, and this is the output:


This is not a permissions issue. check_perms won't fix it.


>
>I sent another test message to the same list, and I got this error
>messsage:
>
>Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; Command died with status 2: 
>    "/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post vm6bsftest3". Command output:
>    Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to
>    be executed as group "daemon", but the system's mail server executed
>    the mail script as group "list".  Try tweaking the mail server to
>    run the script as group "daemon", or re-run configure,  providing
>    the command line option `--with-mail-gid=list'.
>
>The only differences between the first error and the second are
>
>     Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group
>     "daemon", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as
>     group "nogroup".   ("nogroup" ==> "list")
>
>     ... or re-run configure,  providing the command line option
>     `--with-mail-gid=nogroup'.   (nogroup ==> list)
>
>When I built the Ubuntu 2.1.9 package, the configure had
>
>     --with-mail-gid=daemon
>
>and I assume that the same was true of the Ubuntu 2.1.5 package I had
>initially installed.


See below for remark on packager magic.


>My questions are these:
>
>1) Where is this group test being made?


In the wrapper /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman.


>2) What in the "check_perms" run caused the change in the message from
>   "nogroup" to "list"?


It changed the group of the Postfix aliases file that contains the
aliases for Mailman.


>3) My MTA is Postfix.  The 
>
>        /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman
>
>   executable has ownership
>
>        root:list


Correct. It is also SETGID. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>.

With Postfix, the /usr/lib/mailman/data/aliases* files need to be in
mailman's group ('list' in your case) so that Mailman's Postfix
integration can update them. This causes Postfix to execute the pipe
to the wrapper as group 'list', thus the wrapper must expect to be
executed as group 'list', thus you must configure with
--with-mail-gid=list.


>   in both the Ubuntu 2.1.9 and 2.1.5 installations.
>   Is there some file whose ownership has to change to correct this
>   mismatch reported in the error message?


Postfix AFAIK is the only common MTA that uses ownership of the aliases
to determine user and group under which they run. This is the source
of the group in 'system's mail server executed the mail script as
group "list"'. In a source installation, the 'expected' group is
compiled into the wrapper as a result of configure's --with-mail-gid
option.

In a 'package' installation, the expected group is determined by what
ever magic the packager has resorted to to avoid having to recompile
the wrapper.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From vancleef at lostwells.net  Wed Feb 14 02:30:27 2007
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (vancleef at lostwells.net)
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 18:30:27 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Best version of Python to use with Mailman
In-Reply-To: <p06240502c1f66a05ecec@[10.0.1.14]>
Message-ID: <200702140130.l1E1URMD027368@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed Brad Knowles has said:
> 
> Use the latest version of 2.4.x.  As you've demonstrated, the 2.5 
> stuff is not yet fully baked, and Mailman 2.1.8 and earlier are not 
> compatible with it.  $DEITY-only-knows what else they're going to 
> break in the process of trying to "fix" 2.5.
> 
> I'll update the FAQ Wizard to reflect this.
> 
Thanks for the feedback.  

I think that for Mailman purposes, the good news is that the partial
build of Python 2.5 using Sun's C compiler has been online
"production" for several weeks and hasn't crashed yet.  However, after
assessing the Python build situation, I think that a back-down to
2.4.4 would be wise.

I did post details of what I've done with the Python 2.4.4 and 2.5
build trees to the python-help mail list.  What I got was a suggestion
to take it to the python-dev list, which I've done.

At this point, either I'm missing something pretty basic and
reinventing the wheel, or I've smoked out some long-standing issues
with Python build-install, not all of which are specific to Solaris.

Hank

From jcomeau at mrl.ubc.ca  Wed Feb 14 04:10:58 2007
From: jcomeau at mrl.ubc.ca (Joe Comeau)
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:10:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive -small problem
Message-ID: <45D20D43020000C00001C1E8@mail.mrl.ubc.ca>

I have mailman 2.19 installed with postfix and apache2.

Almost everything is perfect except for the archives.
I have 3 test list, only one with a couple messages.
If you click on the link to go look at the archives for a list, instead of
getting the archive list, you get a files listing (ie no index file for apache) of the public folder
instead of the public/(list name).  If you type in the list name in the url it takes you to the archives and you can browse them.

This happens to any of the lists.  Any suggestions?  I think it might be in relation to the default-server.conf
but I believe that the alias for pipermail is correct.  I have the symbolic links for Apache otherwise I wouldn't be able to browse the archive folder.  Something else?

Maybe the info is wrong for the default-server.conf or maybe it's in the mm_conf.py
Any help would be great


Thanks, j


***CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE***
This electronic message is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential.  Any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication by unauthorized individuals is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete the original and all copies from your system.

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb 14 05:04:30 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 20:04:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive -small problem
In-Reply-To: <45D20D43020000C00001C1E8@mail.mrl.ubc.ca>
Message-ID: <PC17602007021320043004370669fe13@msapiro>

Joe Comeau wrote:
>
>Almost everything is perfect except for the archives.
>I have 3 test list, only one with a couple messages.
>If you click on the link to go look at the archives for a list, instead of
>getting the archive list, you get a files listing (ie no index file for apache) of the public folder
>instead of the public/(list name).  If you type in the list name in the url it takes you to the archives and you can browse them.


I think you have an incorrect setting in mm_cfg.py for
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL. The default setting for this (in Defaults.py is

PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'http://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'

Perhaps you changed this for some reason and left off the /%(listname)s
part.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kamalakannan at adventnet.com  Wed Feb 14 13:06:08 2007
From: kamalakannan at adventnet.com (kamalakannan)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 17:36:08 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mails stuck in shunt folder
Message-ID: <45D2FB30.9030103@adventnet.com>

       I have mailman 2.1.9, some of the mails stuck in shunt folder. 
these mails are not delivered even
after using unshunt command.

Below are the errors in mailman log.

Feb 14 13:36:46 2007 (1196) SHUNTING: 
1171438347.6975739+4557e8bc5545704d99fed8f512cd2de377b05e2e
Feb 14 13:36:47 2007 (1196) Uncaught runner exception: unpickling stack 
underflow
Feb 14 13:36:47 2007 (1196) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/list/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/list/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/list/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose
    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
  File "/list/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 215, in 
ArchiveMail
    h = HyperArch.HyperArchive(self)
  File "/list/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 641, in __init__
    self.__super_init(dir, reload=1, database=db)
  File "/list/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 300, in __init__
    d = pickle.load(f)
UnpicklingError: unpickling stack underflow



Thanks
Kamal


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb 14 16:23:32 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 07:23:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mails stuck in shunt folder
In-Reply-To: <45D2FB30.9030103@adventnet.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702140723320796799c453c@msapiro>

kamalakannan wrote:

>       I have mailman 2.1.9, some of the mails stuck in shunt folder. 
>these mails are not delivered even
>after using unshunt command.


That's because unshunt requeues the message in it's original queue, and
the same error occurs again because you haven't fixed the underlying
problem that causes the shunting in the first place.


>Below are the errors in mailman log.
>
>Feb 14 13:36:46 2007 (1196) SHUNTING: 
>1171438347.6975739+4557e8bc5545704d99fed8f512cd2de377b05e2e
>Feb 14 13:36:47 2007 (1196) Uncaught runner exception: unpickling stack 
>underflow
>Feb 14 13:36:47 2007 (1196) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/list/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/list/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/list/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose
>    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
>  File "/list/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 215, in 
>ArchiveMail
>    h = HyperArch.HyperArchive(self)
>  File "/list/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 641, in __init__
>    self.__super_init(dir, reload=1, database=db)
>  File "/list/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 300, in __init__
>    d = pickle.load(f)
>UnpicklingError: unpickling stack underflow


The underlying problem appears to be a corrupt pickle for the list's
archive. This is the file archives/private/<listname>/pipermail.pck.

I'm guessing this is only happening for one list. If you don't know
which list, you can dump a shunt queue entry with bin/dumpdb and get
the listname from the metadata.

BTW, this only affects archiving. The posts were delivered when
originally processed.  Also, the posts were added to the
archives/private/<listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox file before this
error ocurred, so I think the easiest solution (assuming the
archives/private/<listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox has not been
previously pruned) is to

1) rebuild the archive with
   bin/arch --wipe <listname>
2) examine the shunt queue entries with bin/dumpdb or bin/show_qfiles
   and verify they are in the rebuilt archive.
3) remove the unneeded shunt queue entries.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From greg at headingup.net  Wed Feb 14 18:19:29 2007
From: greg at headingup.net (Greg Sims)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 09:19:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Install Issue -- Qmail/Mailman Interaction
Message-ID: <002701c7505c$49b54be0$650a2b0a@WS>

Hi There,

 

I installed mailman on a system that is running Qmail and virtual domains.
The Mailman GUIs from the web and the command line seem to be working
correctly.  I created a list "testing" and performed a mass subscribe of a
single email address -- mine.  Membership management from the web shows one
person subscribed.  This all seems to be working.

 

I sent an email to testing at dom.ain which was rejected with the following:

 

<testing at dom.ain>:

xx.xx.xx.xx does not like recipient.

Remote host said: 550 sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.7.17) Giving
up on xx.xx.xx.xx.

 

 

I believe there is a basic interface issue between mailman and Qmail.
Please give me some pointers on how to get this sorted out.

 

Thanks!  Greg

 

PS. This could have been caused by configuring this new server while most of
the production DNS records were pointing at the old server including
"list.dom.ain".  All production DNS is now pointing to the new server so
this should no longer be an issue.


From JComeau at mrl.ubc.ca  Wed Feb 14 18:39:52 2007
From: JComeau at mrl.ubc.ca (Joe Comeau)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 09:39:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive -small problem
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007021320043004370669fe13@msapiro>
References: <45D20D43020000C00001C1E8@mail.mrl.ubc.ca>
	<PC17602007021320043004370669fe13@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45D2D8E8.5339.00C0.0@mrl.ubc.ca>

Thanks Mark,
indeed you found the exact problem.

A person before me installed mailman but didn't complete the task.
I re-installed with a clean setup but I didn't/don't fully understand all the settings.
in the mm_cfg.py file the setting for public archives was set to "/pipermail/"
This unfortunately was what the setting for the default_server.conf file was as well.
I must have just assumed they were the same and correct, obviously not.

Really appreciate your help

Joe




>>> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> 2/13/2007 8:04 PM >>>
Joe Comeau wrote:
>
>Almost everything is perfect except for the archives.
>I have 3 test list, only one with a couple messages.
>If you click on the link to go look at the archives for a list, instead of
>getting the archive list, you get a files listing (ie no index file for apache) of the public folder
>instead of the public/(list name).  If you type in the list name in the url it takes you to the archives and you can browse them.


I think you have an incorrect setting in mm_cfg.py for
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL. The default setting for this (in Defaults.py is

PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'http://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'

Perhaps you changed this for some reason and left off the /%(listname)s
part.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




***CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE***
This electronic message is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential.  Any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication by unauthorized individuals is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete the original and all copies from your system.

From greg at headingup.net  Wed Feb 14 21:49:15 2007
From: greg at headingup.net (Greg Sims)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 12:49:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Install Issue -- Qmail/Mailman Interaction
Message-ID: <001201c75079$981b9d80$650a2b0a@WS>

Hi There,

 

I installed mailman on a system that is running Qmail and virtual domains.
The Mailman GUIs from the web and the command line seem to be working
correctly.  I created a list "testing" and performed a mass subscribe of a
single email address -- mine.  Membership management from the web shows one
person subscribed.  This all seems to be working.

 

I sent an email to testing at dom.ain which was rejected with the following:

 

<testing at dom.ain>:

xx.xx.xx.xx does not like recipient.

Remote host said: 550 sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.7.17) Giving
up on xx.xx.xx.xx.

 

 

I believe there is a basic interface issue between mailman and Qmail.
Please give me some pointers on how to get this sorted out.

 

Thanks!  Greg

 

PS. This could have been caused by configuring this new server while most of
the production DNS records were pointing at the old server including
"list.dom.ain".  All production DNS is now pointing to the new server so
this should no longer be an issue.

 

PPS.  I'm sorry if this is the second post for this topic but I can't see
anything in the archives after several hours.


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Wed Feb 14 22:06:31 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 15:06:31 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Group mismatch error
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Mark Sapiro <msapiro@value.net>'
	dated: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:35:41 -0800
Message-ID: <200702142106.l1EL6Vx3009084@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

Mark Sapiro replied to my posting about group-id mismatches, in part:

>>My questions are these:
>>
>>1) Where is this group test being made?


>In the wrapper /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman.
>
>...
>
>In a 'package' installation, the expected group is determined by what
>ever magic the packager has resorted to to avoid having to recompile
>the wrapper.

I was looking at this wrapper executable and how it is compiled.
I needed to determine the "magic" involved.  I have the "script" output
of my installations on Solaris and Ubuntu.  I found this Debian/Ubuntu
patch

     10_wrapper_uid.dpatch

that contains, in part, this change to mail-wrapper.c:

=====================================================================
--- mailman-2.1.4.orig/src/mail-wrapper.c
+++ mailman-2.1.4/src/mail-wrapper.c
@@ -74,7 +74,7 @@
                 fatal(logident, MAIL_ILLEGAL_COMMAND,
                       "Illegal command: %s", argv[1]);
 
-        check_caller(logident, parentgroup);
+       if (getgid() >= 100 && getgid() != 65534) check_caller(logident, LEGAL_PARENT_GROUP);
 
         /* If we got here, everything must be OK */
         status = run_script(argv[1], argc, argv, env);
=====================================================================

The patch contains a similar patch to cgi-wrapper.c .

>From the debian/changelog, with the oldest patch first:

-------------------------------------------
mailman (1.0b7-1) unstable; urgency=low

  * Don't check caller gid in mail-wrapper

 -- Gergely Madarasz <gorgo at caesar.elte.hu>  Fri,  8 Jan 1999 02:24:00 +0100
-------------------------------------------
mailman (2.0.3-2) unstable; urgency=low

  * Applied some old patches which had got lost, including allowing the
    calling of the wrapper scripts if GID == nobody or < 100.  (Closes:
    #36010, #89564, #89848, 89818)

 -- Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen at debian.org>  Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:40:16 +0100
-------------------------------------------

>From the Debian web site:

mailman  (2.0.3-3) unstable; urgency=low 

  * Mailman has supported having nobody as the CGI user for some time
     (closes: #36010)

- Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen at debian.org>  Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:06:44 +0100
-------------------------------------------

There was no additional information on patches #89564, #89848, 89818.

The patch appears to be calling

     check_caller

only if the group is over 99 and not 65534, and it is calling that
routine with a different parent group.  But the mail-wrapper.c code has

     #define LEGAL_PARENT_GROUP MAIL_GROUP
     const char* parentgroup = LEGAL_PARENT_GROUP;

I have no idea for the reasoning behind "Don't check caller gid in
mail-wrapper", nor do I understand the reasoning for the "nobody" and
"< 100" GID checks.  I do not know if the change to the second parameter
of check_caller is significant.

When I built my 2.1.9 package, I did not include any of the Debian
patches except for one that changes two parameters in Defaults.py.in:

     IMAGE_LOGOS
     DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN

What I have on my Ubuntu test system in /etc/group is:

     daemon:x:1:
     list:x:38:

I have to conclude that the straight Ubuntu/Debian package installation
was not checking the group-id because the daemon and list groups have
ID below 100.  When I built and installed the 2.1.9 Ubuntu package
without this patch, the Mailman code began checking the group-id and
found a mismatch.

I would appreciate it if someone would confirm my conclusions.  Thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb 15 03:08:13 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 18:08:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Install Issue -- Qmail/Mailman Interaction
In-Reply-To: <001201c75079$981b9d80$650a2b0a@WS>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702141808130812ec5d1419@msapiro>

Greg Sims wrote:
>
>I installed mailman on a system that is running Qmail and virtual domains.

<snip>

>I sent an email to testing at dom.ain which was rejected with the following:
>
> 
>
><testing at dom.ain>:
>
>xx.xx.xx.xx does not like recipient.
>
>Remote host said: 550 sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.7.17) Giving
>up on xx.xx.xx.xx.
>
> 
>
> 
>
>I believe there is a basic interface issue between mailman and Qmail.
>Please give me some pointers on how to get this sorted out.


I don't know Qmail, and Qmail's aliases have always been a particular
mystery to me, but aliases are required for Qmail to properly pipe
mail to Mailman's wrapper. This is described in the installation
manual at <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/qmail-issues.html>. If
that material doesn't tell you how to proceed, I suggest you ask on a
Qmail list/forum.


>PPS.  I'm sorry if this is the second post for this topic but I can't see
>anything in the archives after several hours.


I don't know why you didn't see anything in the archives (it's there
now), but my server received your original by email from the list
about 7 minutes after you sent it (over 6.6 minutes of that was in
greylisting of your first post).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at python.org  Thu Feb 15 03:27:20 2007
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 21:27:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Best version of Python to use with Mailman
	2.1.9?
In-Reply-To: <p06240503c1f66ce6999b@[10.0.1.14]>
References: <200702121751.l1CHpI5o005095@julie.lostwells.net>
	<p06240502c1f66a05ecec@[10.0.1.14]>
	<p06240503c1f66ce6999b@[10.0.1.14]>
Message-ID: <488D6F81-563D-4EBE-ABB5-74CBEA6F6EFF@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Feb 12, 2007, at 2:14 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 1:03 PM -0600 2/12/07, Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>>  Use the latest version of 2.4.x.  As you've demonstrated, the 2.5
>>  stuff is not yet fully baked, and Mailman 2.1.8 and earlier are not
>>  compatible with it.  $DEITY-only-knows what else they're going to
>>  break in the process of trying to "fix" 2.5.
>>
>>  I'll update the FAQ Wizard to reflect this.
>
> We also need to get the manual at
> <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node2.html> updated as well.
> Barry?

Thanks for giving me a heads up about this.  What I've done is put  
the definitive information in the wiki:

http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/Installation+requirements

then I updated the online documentation to recommend Python 2.4.4 (as  
of its current writing), but point to that wiki page for more up-to- 
date information.

BTW, hopefully we've learned our lessons with Python patch releases.   
There /will/ be a Python 2.5.1 but I'm fairly confident that it will  
not break anything in Mailman 2.1.9 or beyond.

Cheers,
- -Barry

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (Darwin)

iD8DBQFF08UP2YZpQepbvXERAlsJAJ0ZKLgLhQu+SSonF5YE7JLo6FYz4wCglXCy
QtXSItCVVP9QYSDdFzJB96M=
=rRVN
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb 15 06:23:29 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 21:23:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Group mismatch error
In-Reply-To: <200702142106.l1EL6Vx3009084@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC176020070214212329078115945aca@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:
>
>The patch appears to be calling
>
>     check_caller
>
>only if the group is over 99 and not 65534, and it is calling that
>routine with a different parent group.  But the mail-wrapper.c code has
>
>     #define LEGAL_PARENT_GROUP MAIL_GROUP
>     const char* parentgroup = LEGAL_PARENT_GROUP;


It's not really different. MAIL_GROUP is defined in the 'cc' command
generated by configure with value equal to the --with-mail-gid
argument or default. Then the first line above defines
LEGAL_PARENT_GROUP with the value of MAIL_GROUP. the second line
defines parentgroup as a constant character pointer (or string) equal
to LEGAL_PARENT_GROUP. Whether check_caller is called with a second
argument of parentgroup or LEGAL_PARENT_GROUP, the result is going to
be the same although the latter may produce a compiler warning.


>I have no idea for the reasoning behind "Don't check caller gid in
>mail-wrapper", nor do I understand the reasoning for the "nobody" and
>"< 100" GID checks.  I do not know if the change to the second parameter
>of check_caller is significant.


If you didn't read
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>
which I referenced previously, read it now.

In brief summary, the MTA invokes Mailman's wrapper which is SETGID and
Mailman's group ('list' in your case IIRC). Thus, the wrapper and the
scripts it calls run as group 'list' so they have the permissions they
need.

In order to prevent anyone who might have shell access to the server
from running the wrappers as commands and doing whatever they might
do, the wrapper is written to expect to be invoked by a specific group
- the group that the MTA runs it as in the case of the mail wrapper,
the group that the web server runs CGIs as in the case of the CGI
wrappers. If it is not invoked by the expected group, it refuses to
run (it dies in check_caller).


The Debian/Ubuntu patch allows any group with GID <100 in addition to
the precompiled 'expected' group, presumably on the theory that
untrusted users all have GIDs >=100 so letting any GID <100 run the
wrapper is OK.


>When I built my 2.1.9 package, I did not include any of the Debian
>patches except for one that changes two parameters in Defaults.py.in:
>
>     IMAGE_LOGOS
>     DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN
>
>What I have on my Ubuntu test system in /etc/group is:
>
>     daemon:x:1:
>     list:x:38:
>
>I have to conclude that the straight Ubuntu/Debian package installation
>was not checking the group-id because the daemon and list groups have
>ID below 100.  When I built and installed the 2.1.9 Ubuntu package
>without this patch, the Mailman code began checking the group-id and
>found a mismatch.
>
>I would appreciate it if someone would confirm my conclusions.  Thanks.


Your conclusion as I understand it is correct.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From pnavarre at netinteraction.com  Fri Feb 16 04:33:33 2007
From: pnavarre at netinteraction.com (Paul Navarre)
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 19:33:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Plain text message arrives with wrong encoding
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070214212329078115945aca@msapiro>
References: <PC176020070214212329078115945aca@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45D5260D.20105@netinteraction.com>

I have a client who is receiving messages from a Mailman list I run that 
aren't showing up as expected. The list is supposed to be converting to 
plain text and this works fine for me (I use Thunderbird). My client on 
the other hand was getting the messages with a non-plain text font. She 
uses Outlook. After much fumbling around I noticed that the encoding of 
these messages are reported as Central European by Outlook. If I 
manually change the encoding on these messages to West European the 
messages look as I would expect.

I cannot figure out why these messages are showing up with Central 
European encoding. All of the settings in Outlook are set to what I 
would expect for a US user. I can't find anything that would point to 
Outlook converting the message to Central European encoding. The same 
message received by me in Thunderbird show up correctly with Western 
encoding.

She is also receiving messages from other sources and they are showing 
up with the correct plain text font as set in Outlook. In seems that she 
is only having problems with messages from my Mailman server.

Does anybody have any guesses as to what might be happening?

Thanks,

Paul Navarre



From lists at rauchs-home.de  Fri Feb 16 10:14:47 2007
From: lists at rauchs-home.de (Rauch Christian)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:14:47 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not seeing mails with postfix
Message-ID: <45D57607.2060307@rauchs-home.de>

Hi List,

I am having a problem with mailman/postfix and hope, someone can help me :)

I configured Postfix and dovecot with virtual mailboxes and this just
works fine.

Then I installed and configured mailman, well, the result is, I can send
mail _from_ mailman (e.g. invitations from the web interface), but
mailman never receives any responses here.

But postfix receives and saves them!

I saved my output of postconf -n here:
http://rauchs-home.de/tmp/postconf.txt
and configured mailman as below in mm_cfg.py:

MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS=['rauchs-home.dyndns.info']
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'rauchs-home.dyndns.info'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'rauchs-home.dyndns.info'
POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postalias'
POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postmap'
DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
SMTPHOST = '192.168.0.2'
SMTPPORT = '25'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)


I can create lists, I receive creation notification, postfix receives
mails and saves them to a file in /home/postfix.

That's the first weird thing. all 'normal' virtual users have a Mailbox
folder, not a single file

I have the following folder structure in there (with 2 users and one
list created):

domain/user at domain/ << folder
domain/user2 at domain/ << folder
list-request << single file

Anyone knows, how to configure mailman to see these mails?

Regards,

Rauch Christian

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Feb 16 10:21:52 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 03:21:52 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not seeing mails with postfix
In-Reply-To: <45D57607.2060307@rauchs-home.de>
References: <45D57607.2060307@rauchs-home.de>
Message-ID: <p06240501c1fb27f4e388@[10.0.1.102]>

At 10:14 AM +0100 2/16/07, Rauch Christian wrote:

>  I can create lists, I receive creation notification, postfix receives
>  mails and saves them to a file in /home/postfix.

Sounds like you didn't set up your aliases to tell postfix to hand 
all Mailman-related e-mail over to the Mailman programs, and 
therefore it thinks that this is "normal" e-mail for some virtual 
user.

Try setting up your aliases.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From lists at rauchs-home.de  Fri Feb 16 10:28:59 2007
From: lists at rauchs-home.de (Rauch Christian)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 10:28:59 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not seeing mails with postfix
In-Reply-To: <45D57607.2060307@rauchs-home.de>
References: <45D57607.2060307@rauchs-home.de>
Message-ID: <45D5795B.4020706@rauchs-home.de>

Rauch Christian schrieb:
> I saved my output of postconf -n here:
> http://rauchs-home.de/tmp/postconf.txt
>   

*ouch*

Never mind, I found my error, now it works!

I stated for virtual_alias_maps /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases, whereas it should be virtual-mailman!

Sorry for the noise!

Regards,
Rauch Christian


From glen.page at thet.net  Fri Feb 16 12:31:25 2007
From: glen.page at thet.net (Glen Page)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 06:31:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 36, Issue 24
In-Reply-To: <mailman.26.1171623611.24932.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.26.1171623611.24932.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <41C00781-0EEC-4C48-866D-B05BD63FAC9D@thet.net>

Not sure if this is related by I got an odd message from one of my  
moderators. At least one list subscriber is getting messages but the  
top half of the messages is gone. This is puzzling as it is not  
happening to everyone on the list. I do NOT know what client is  
displaying the partial messages. I do know that the moderator sending  
the messages is using OS X Mail Client.

Moderator has found that adding a few carriage returns to the top of  
the original post makes it show up fine.

On Feb 16, 2007, at 6:00 AM, mailman-users-request at python.org wrote:

> From: Paul Navarre <pnavarre at netinteraction.com>
> Date: February 15, 2007 10:33:33 PM EST
> To: Mailman-Users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Plain text message arrives with wrong  
> encoding
>
>
> I have a client who is receiving messages from a Mailman list I run  
> that aren't showing up as expected. The list is supposed to be  
> converting to plain text and this works fine for me (I use  
> Thunderbird). My client on the other hand was getting the messages  
> with a non-plain text font. She uses Outlook. After much fumbling  
> around I noticed that the encoding of these messages are reported  
> as Central European by Outlook. If I manually change the encoding  
> on these messages to West European the messages look as I would  
> expect.
>
> I cannot figure out why these messages are showing up with Central  
> European encoding. All of the settings in Outlook are set to what I  
> would expect for a US user. I can't find anything that would point  
> to Outlook converting the message to Central European encoding. The  
> same message received by me in Thunderbird show up correctly with  
> Western encoding.
>
> She is also receiving messages from other sources and they are  
> showing up with the correct plain text font as set in Outlook. In  
> seems that she is only having problems with messages from my  
> Mailman server.
>
> Does anybody have any guesses as to what might be happening?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul Navarre
>
>
>
>

Glen Page
Technology Systems Administrator
ThetNet

It is fruitless to become lachrymose because of scattered lacteal  
fluid!!!


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 16 17:20:35 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 08:20:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Plain text message arrives with wrong encoding
In-Reply-To: <45D5260D.20105@netinteraction.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070216082035029673113a0b@msapiro>

Paul Navarre  wrote:
>
>I cannot figure out why these messages are showing up with Central 
>European encoding. All of the settings in Outlook are set to what I 
>would expect for a US user. I can't find anything that would point to 
>Outlook converting the message to Central European encoding. The same 
>message received by me in Thunderbird show up correctly with Western 
>encoding.
>
>She is also receiving messages from other sources and they are showing 
>up with the correct plain text font as set in Outlook. In seems that she 
>is only having problems with messages from my Mailman server.
>
>Does anybody have any guesses as to what might be happening?


Not without seeing a message. Using your Tbird, select one of these
messages as received by you from the list, then select 'Message
Source' from the View menu. Then in the source view either select,
copy and paste into a reply, all the headers of the message including
the boundaries and part headers if the message is multipart, or select
File->Save Page As and save it to a file with a .txt extension and
attach that to a reply. If you wish, you may edit addresses, domains
and message body for privacy, but we need to see the message headers
and MIME structure if any of the message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 16 17:34:55 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 08:34:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderated message missing top lines
In-Reply-To: <41C00781-0EEC-4C48-866D-B05BD63FAC9D@thet.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602007021608345502184a411651@msapiro>

Glen Page wrote:

>Not sure if this is related by I got an odd message from one of my  
>moderators. At least one list subscriber is getting messages but the  
>top half of the messages is gone. This is puzzling as it is not  
>happening to everyone on the list. I do NOT know what client is  
>displaying the partial messages. I do know that the moderator sending  
>the messages is using OS X Mail Client.
>
>Moderator has found that adding a few carriage returns to the top of  
>the original post makes it show up fine.


Is the moderator editing the post in some way? It seems perhaps the
moderator is somehow editing the post, perhaps using one of the
techniques in
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.009.htp>
and is not separating the body of the edited messages fron the headers
by at least one empty line. Note that an empty line is different from
a blank line in that an empty line contains no characters while a
blank line may contain spaces, tabs or other whitespace characters.

If the body is not separated from the headers by an empty line, the
first portion of the body up to the first empty line in the body will
be considered part of the headers.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From glen.page at thet.net  Fri Feb 16 17:59:02 2007
From: glen.page at thet.net (Glen Page)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 11:59:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderated message missing top lines
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007021608345502184a411651@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007021608345502184a411651@msapiro>
Message-ID: <AF288341-D980-44F0-9E64-56B1F509A724@thet.net>

Moderator is CREATING the message in the mail client. This a an  
announce list so she is one of the only ones allowed to post to it. I  
suspect that she might be using cut and paste to paste MS Word  
content into the messages. I will tell her to just try adding a few  
carriage returns.

Thanks

On Feb 16, 2007, at 11:34 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Glen Page wrote:
>
>> Not sure if this is related by I got an odd message from one of my
>> moderators. At least one list subscriber is getting messages but the
>> top half of the messages is gone. This is puzzling as it is not
>> happening to everyone on the list. I do NOT know what client is
>> displaying the partial messages. I do know that the moderator sending
>> the messages is using OS X Mail Client.
>>
>> Moderator has found that adding a few carriage returns to the top of
>> the original post makes it show up fine.
>
>
> Is the moderator editing the post in some way? It seems perhaps the
> moderator is somehow editing the post, perhaps using one of the
> techniques in
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.009.htp>
> and is not separating the body of the edited messages fron the headers
> by at least one empty line. Note that an empty line is different from
> a blank line in that an empty line contains no characters while a
> blank line may contain spaces, tabs or other whitespace characters.
>
> If the body is not separated from the headers by an empty line, the
> first portion of the body up to the first empty line in the body will
> be considered part of the headers.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

Glen Page
Technology Systems Administrator
ThetNet

 From Apple Developers Tech Notes - tn2118:
"The Mac OS X kernel should never panic because, when it does, it  
seriously inconveniences the user."






From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 16 18:27:14 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 09:27:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderated message missing top lines
In-Reply-To: <AF288341-D980-44F0-9E64-56B1F509A724@thet.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702160927140359bc35f4d5@msapiro>

Glen Page wrote:
>
>Moderator is CREATING the message in the mail client. This a an  
>announce list so she is one of the only ones allowed to post to it. I  
>suspect that she might be using cut and paste to paste MS Word  
>content into the messages. I will tell her to just try adding a few  
>carriage returns.


Is she using an Approved: line in the body to get the post accepted?
There may be an issue around that, particularly if the 'missing' lines
are missing from an HTML alternative part?

If she is not using an Approved: line, then I don't know what Mailman
might be doing to the message that would require adding empty line(s)
to the beginning.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From glen.page at thet.net  Fri Feb 16 18:26:12 2007
From: glen.page at thet.net (Glen Page)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 12:26:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderated message missing top lines
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200702160927140359bc35f4d5@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200702160927140359bc35f4d5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <2CCEE102-F968-4213-B816-CC4781FEC42E@thet.net>

She is one of a very few that area allowed to post to this list. The  
list is set to always accept messages from her. I don't think she  
knows anything about putting Approve in the body.
not a big problem.. just a minor annoyance.

On Feb 16, 2007, at 12:27 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Glen Page wrote:
>>
>> Moderator is CREATING the message in the mail client. This a an
>> announce list so she is one of the only ones allowed to post to it. I
>> suspect that she might be using cut and paste to paste MS Word
>> content into the messages. I will tell her to just try adding a few
>> carriage returns.
>
>
> Is she using an Approved: line in the body to get the post accepted?
> There may be an issue around that, particularly if the 'missing' lines
> are missing from an HTML alternative part?
>
> If she is not using an Approved: line, then I don't know what Mailman
> might be doing to the message that would require adding empty line(s)
> to the beginning.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

Glen Page
Technology Systems Administrator
ThetNet

If you want a language that tries to lock up all the sharp objects  
and fire-making implements, use Pascal or Ada: the Nerf languages,  
harmless fun for children of all ages, and they won't mar the furniture.

-Scott Fahlman





From julia_frizzell at brown.edu  Fri Feb 16 20:22:41 2007
From: julia_frizzell at brown.edu (Julia Frizzell)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 14:22:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with archive URL
Message-ID: <D0D91308-D711-471A-AD7C-AF097DB9265A@brown.edu>

My mailman is configured to have as its default_email_host  
alliance.brown.edu, but the default_url_host to be  
list.alliance.brown.edu. However, our list information pages list the  
archive link as alliance.brown.edu instead of the proper list.a.b.e  
link as it should be.

We host other virtual hosts at this site, all of them using list.name  
and they have no problem with the archive, it's just this one domain.

How can we ensure the info pages go to the right URL without manually  
editing each list HTML page, but also ensure no changes to the other  
virtual hosts?

---
Julia Frizzell
Systems Administrator/Help Desk Manager
The Education Alliance
222 Richmond Street, Suite 300
Providence, Rhode Island  02903-4226
julia_frizzell at brown.edu
401.274.9548 x311 or 800.521.9550 x311
401.421.7650 (fax)
http://www.alliance.brown.edu



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 16 21:42:48 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 12:42:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with archive URL
In-Reply-To: <D0D91308-D711-471A-AD7C-AF097DB9265A@brown.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702161242480703d250672f@msapiro>

Julia Frizzell wrote:

>My mailman is configured to have as its default_email_host  
>alliance.brown.edu, but the default_url_host to be  
>list.alliance.brown.edu. However, our list information pages list the  
>archive link as alliance.brown.edu instead of the proper list.a.b.e  
>link as it should be.


This is one of two problems. If these are private archives, you
probably need to run fix_url on the lists. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.069.htp>.

If these are public archives, you may have hard coded a host name in
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL in mm_cfg.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From julia_frizzell at brown.edu  Fri Feb 16 21:56:07 2007
From: julia_frizzell at brown.edu (Julia Frizzell)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 15:56:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with archive URL
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200702161242480703d250672f@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200702161242480703d250672f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <9BBBCC23-5780-4806-BC79-405DB9585162@brown.edu>


On Feb 16, 2007, at 3:42 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Julia Frizzell wrote:
>
>> My mailman is configured to have as its default_email_host
>> alliance.brown.edu, but the default_url_host to be
>> list.alliance.brown.edu. However, our list information pages list the
>> archive link as alliance.brown.edu instead of the proper list.a.b.e
>> link as it should be.
>
>
> This is one of two problems. If these are private archives, you
> probably need to run fix_url on the lists. See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
> req=show&file=faq04.069.htp>.
>
> If these are public archives, you may have hard coded a host name in
> PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL in mm_cfg.py.

They're public archives, and I do not have a hard coded host name in  
my mm_cfg.py.

Interestingly enough, ALL of the other links work perfectly. It is  
ONLY the list for the archives that has a problem. Should I worry  
about running the fix_url.py and having it create problems for the  
currently working links and potentially messing up the other virtual  
hosts, or should I just relax and let it do its thing?

BTW, this change will not be done on a Friday at 4:00, so I'm looking  
for a Monday morning solution. :)

---
Julia Frizzell
Systems Administrator/Help Desk Manager
The Education Alliance
222 Richmond Street, Suite 300
Providence, Rhode Island  02903-4226
julia_frizzell at brown.edu
401.274.9548 x311 or 800.521.9550 x311
401.421.7650 (fax)
http://www.alliance.brown.edu



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 16 22:45:53 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 13:45:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with archive URL
In-Reply-To: <9BBBCC23-5780-4806-BC79-405DB9585162@brown.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702161345530296496a741d@msapiro>

Julia Frizzell wrote:
>
>They're public archives, and I do not have a hard coded host name in  
>my mm_cfg.py.
>
>Interestingly enough, ALL of the other links work perfectly. It is  
>ONLY the list for the archives that has a problem. Should I worry  
>about running the fix_url.py and having it create problems for the  
>currently working links and potentially messing up the other virtual  
>hosts, or should I just relax and let it do its thing?


I went to your listinfo overview page to see what Mailman version you
are using, and I see it is 2.1.5.

2.1.5 inverts the VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary, and looks up the lists
host_name attribute (email host) in the inverted dictionary to get the
corresponding web host. This is not done in current Mailman and is
subject to error if the VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary has duplicate values.

I suggest the problem is as follows:

Mailman was configured such that the Defaults.py settings for
DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST are both 'alliance.brown.edu',
and this entry is put in VIRTUAL_HOSTS by the
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) in Defaults.py

mm_cfg.py contains

DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.alliance.brown.edu'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'alliance.brown.edu'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

This results in a VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary =

{'lists.alliance.brown.edu': 'alliance.brown.edu',
 'alliance.brown.edu': 'alliance.brown.edu'}

which, since dictionaries can't have duplicate keys, gets inverted to

{'alliance.brown.edu': 'alliance.brown.edu'}

If I am correct, the solution to this problem is to add

VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()

to mm_cfg.py preceeding the add_virtualhost() as

DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.alliance.brown.edu'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'alliance.brown.edu'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 16 22:52:49 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 13:52:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with archive URL
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200702161345530296496a741d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702161352490093b502618e@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>2.1.5 inverts the VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary, and looks up the lists
>host_name attribute (email host) in the inverted dictionary to get the
>corresponding web host. This is not done in current Mailman and is
>subject to error if the VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary has duplicate values.

I neglected to say that this trick is only done for public archive
URLs, which is why everything else works.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From steele at agora-net.com  Fri Feb 16 22:24:37 2007
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 16:24:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with archive URL
In-Reply-To: <9BBBCC23-5780-4806-BC79-405DB9585162@brown.edu>
References: <PC1760200702161242480703d250672f@msapiro>
	<9BBBCC23-5780-4806-BC79-405DB9585162@brown.edu>
Message-ID: <45D62115.7010600@agora-net.com>

Julia Frizzell wrote:
> On Feb 16, 2007, at 3:42 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>   
>> Julia Frizzell wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> My mailman is configured to have as its default_email_host
>>> alliance.brown.edu, but the default_url_host to be
>>> list.alliance.brown.edu. However, our list information pages list the
>>> archive link as alliance.brown.edu instead of the proper list.a.b.e
>>> link as it should be.
>>>       
>> This is one of two problems. If these are private archives, you
>> probably need to run fix_url on the lists. See
>> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
>> req=show&file=faq04.069.htp>.
>>
>> If these are public archives, you may have hard coded a host name in
>> PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL in mm_cfg.py.
>>     
>
> They're public archives, and I do not have a hard coded host name in  
> my mm_cfg.py.
>
> Interestingly enough, ALL of the other links work perfectly. It is  
> ONLY the list for the archives that has a problem. Should I worry  
> about running the fix_url.py and having it create problems for the  
> currently working links and potentially messing up the other virtual  
> hosts, or should I just relax and let it do its thing?
>
> BTW, this change will not be done on a Friday at 4:00, so I'm looking  
> for a Monday morning solution. :)
>   
I hate to interject here, but wouldn't you rather test during off-peak 
hours, instead of the heat of Monday morning where a mistake might cost 
a lot more?  That being said, you can apply changes to a single list, 
and not all lists in an installation.  Citing the output from bin/withlist:

    --all / -a
        This option only works with the -r option.  Use this if you want to
        execute the script on all mailing lists.  When you use -a you should
        not include a listname argument on the command line.  The 
variable `r'
        will be a list of all the results.

Best,
Ryan

-- 
Ryan Steele                         
Systems Administrator               steele at agora-net.com
AgoraNet, Inc.                      (302) 224-2475
314 E. Main Street, Suite 1         (302) 224-2552 (fax)
Newark, DE 19711                    http://www.agora-net.com


> ---
> Julia Frizzell
> Systems Administrator/Help Desk Manager
> The Education Alliance
> 222 Richmond Street, Suite 300
> Providence, Rhode Island  02903-4226
> julia_frizzell at brown.edu
> 401.274.9548 x311 or 800.521.9550 x311
> 401.421.7650 (fax)
> http://www.alliance.brown.edu
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/steele%40agora-net.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>   


From siffert at museworld.com  Sun Feb 18 23:20:20 2007
From: siffert at museworld.com (Curt Siffert)
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 14:20:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman with sendmail smtp-failure (solved)
Message-ID: <0945380A-1D77-4841-88AC-B0F0083DEE16@museworld.com>


Hi, I am setting up Mailman with sendmail and apache2, and when I try  
to subscribe an address to the list with "send notifications to  
subscriber" turned on, I never receive the email.

logs/smtp says:

Feb 18 01:08:17 2007 (77993) <mailman. 
0.1171789696.78619.mailman at sub.domain.net> smtp to mailman for 1  
recips, completed in 0.018 seconds

logs/smtp-failure says:

Feb 18 01:08:17 2007 (77993) SMTP session failure: 553, 5.3.0  
<mailman-bounces at sub.domain.net>... User unknown, msgid: <mailman. 
0.1171789696.78619.mailman at sub.domain.net>

I'm trying to figure out how to push the email through and I'm  
stuck.  What could the problem be?

(...)

In the process of writing this email, I figured out the problem.  I  
figured I'd send this anyway for future google searches.

Many sendmail utilities automatically put a catchall in virtusertable:
@sub.domain.net	error:nouser User unknown

So even though you wouldn't normally have to put entries in  
virtusertable, you do in this case, BEFORE the catchall, since  
virtusertable is interpreted before the aliases file.  So once I put:

mailman at sub.domain.net         mailman
mailman-admin at sub.domain.net   mailman-admin
mailman-bounces at sub.domain.net mailman-bounces
mailman-confirm at sub.domain.net mailman-confirm
mailman-join at sub.domain.net    mailman-join
mailman-leave at sub.domain.net   mailman-leave
mailman-owner at sub.domain.net   mailman-owner
mailman-request at sub.domain.net mailman-request
mailman-subscribe at sub.domain.net       mailman-subscribe
mailman-unsubscribe at sub.domain.net     mailman-unsubscribe

in the virtusertable and reran /etc/mail/make, things started working.

The mailman documentation doesn't mention this.


From erik at q32.com  Sun Feb 18 23:59:47 2007
From: erik at q32.com (Erik Aronesty)
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 17:59:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] customizable user options login page
Message-ID: <ccd588d90702181459i311bc1f8kb897f6a43352df70@mail.gmail.com>

i added a template file "loginpage.html" and modifies options.py in
order to be able to fully customize the page

it's the only page my users see on a regular basis that isn't in the
full style of my site

http://www.documentroot.com/mailman/ (2 files)
  loginpage.html - english template example
  loginpage-options.py.txt - replacement for the loginpage function in
Mailman/Cgi/options.py

it seems to work fine

(note, this is my first time coding in python)

- erik

From denis.uzvik at gmail.com  Mon Feb 19 18:29:00 2007
From: denis.uzvik at gmail.com (Denis)
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 19:29:00 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pipermail customization
Message-ID: <1249068897.20070219192900@gmail.com>

Hi guys ..
It's possible customize archived message page? (like
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-April/035963.html
)

add custom header-footer-css ?

As I understand this pages by generated by papermail. But
unfortunately i can't find way to customize papermail.


Thanks!



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 19 18:43:33 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 09:43:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pipermail customization
In-Reply-To: <1249068897.20070219192900@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702190943330562509e0773@msapiro>

Denis wrote:

>It's possible customize archived message page? (like
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-April/035963.html
>)
>
>add custom header-footer-css ?


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>.

The template is article.html.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From denis.uzvik at gmail.com  Mon Feb 19 19:00:27 2007
From: denis.uzvik at gmail.com (Denis)
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 20:00:27 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pipermail customization
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200702190943330562509e0773@msapiro>
References: <1249068897.20070219192900@gmail.com>
	<PC1760200702190943330562509e0773@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1448776887.20070219200027@gmail.com>

Thanks, this is interesting!
I can't understand how to force rebild  files from
/usr/local/mailman2/archives/private/webman/2007-February/*

Seems for new files all ok.

/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl restart  - doesn't help : (




Can you advice please?

> Denis wrote:

>>It's possible customize archived message page? (like
>>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-April/035963.html
>>)
>>
>>add custom header-footer-css ?


> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>.

> The template is article.html.





From rb at islandnet.com  Mon Feb 19 21:30:40 2007
From: rb at islandnet.com (Ron Brogden)
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 12:30:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] revisiting Mailman content-type problem
Message-ID: <200702191230.40080.rb@islandnet.com>

Howdy.  While researching a problem that a user was having with long URLs 
getting wrapped in their Mac mail client I came across the following thread 
from last year dicussing the very same problem:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-February/049477.html

To summarize, "delsp=yes; format=flowed" is getting dropped during Mailman's 
parsing of the message.  At the time of the note above Mark Sapiro  said that 
this was due to a mix of issues within Mailman plus the underlaying Python 
libraries.

Has there been any change of the status of this issue or is the only 
workaround still to turn off attachement scrubbing and empty the header / 
footer?

Mark said previously: 

"You might be able to avoid the problem if you set scrub_nondigest to No
and make sure both msg_header and msg_footer are empty, but this may
not be satisfactory for other reasons."

Cheers!

Ron

-- 
islandnet.com
http://www.islandnet.com
support at islandnet.com
ph: (250) 383-0096 fax: (250) 383-6698

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 19 21:39:22 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 12:39:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pipermail customization
In-Reply-To: <1448776887.20070219200027@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007021912392208125df97002@msapiro>

Denis wrote:
>
>I can't understand how to force rebild  files from
>/usr/local/mailman2/archives/private/webman/2007-February/*
>
>Seems for new files all ok.
>
>/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl restart  - doesn't help : (


You have to rebuild the archive. See 'bin/arch --help'. If this archive
is entirely from a recent Mailman, you should have no problem, but if
early parts of the archive are from older Mailman, see 'bin/cleanarch
--help'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 20 01:44:52 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 16:44:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] revisiting Mailman content-type problem
In-Reply-To: <200702191230.40080.rb@islandnet.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007021916445200464c46bd82@msapiro>

Ron Brogden wrote:

>Howdy.  While researching a problem that a user was having with long URLs 
>getting wrapped in their Mac mail client I came across the following thread 
>from last year dicussing the very same problem:
>
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-February/049477.html
>
>To summarize, "delsp=yes; format=flowed" is getting dropped during Mailman's 
>parsing of the message.  At the time of the note above Mark Sapiro  said that 
>this was due to a mix of issues within Mailman plus the underlaying Python 
>libraries.
>
>Has there been any change of the status of this issue or is the only 
>workaround still to turn off attachement scrubbing and empty the header / 
>footer?


It's been on my ToDo list long enough. Attached is a patch you can try
if you are willing. This patch should preserve the format and delsp
parameters on Content-Type headers for the original message body.

A couple of remarks.

If msg_header and/or msg_footer contain lines with trailing spaces, if
these are added to a Format=flowed message body, the header and/or
footer will be flowed by the end MUA - make sure these do not have
trailing spaces.

In looking at the code to develop the patch, I don't really see how the
dropping of the Format and DelSp parameters causes ultimate improper
wrapping of scrubber URLs, so I'm not sure that this patch fixes that.
The problem is real and definitely manifests itself in other ways, so
the patch (assuming it is good - I did test it to make sure it didn't
break anything obvious) is needed. I'm just not sure if it will fix
your immediate problem.

Please try the patch if you can, and report. If it doesn't fix the
wrapped URLs, I'll probably need message samples to figure it out.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: flowed.patch.txt
Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20070219/93ddc3ac/attachment.txt 

From kelly.terry.jones at gmail.com  Tue Feb 20 02:01:45 2007
From: kelly.terry.jones at gmail.com (Kelly Jones)
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 18:01:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Making all bounces, even temporary ones,
	go to list owner ASAP
Message-ID: <26face530702191701i12504aaaka034d4904f25ebc9@mail.gmail.com>

Many of my customers run tightly-controlled lists where it's important
to know (immediately, if possible) if email to any of the members is
bouncing (eg, an ISP mailing its customer base), even if the bounce is
temporary.

Is there a way to do this using the bounce processing options in
Mailman? EG, set the warn threshold really low and have all warnings
be cc'd to the list owner?

An obvious hack is to tweak the alias generator to do things like:

listname-bounces: listname-owner

but is there a cleaner (and "officially supported") way?

I realize the list owners will also get "vacation" replies, but that's
OK (in this situation, it's worth the hassle of getting these to know
when email is really bouncing)

-- 
We're just a Bunch Of Regular Guys, a collective group that's trying
to understand and assimilate technology. We feel that resistance to
new ideas and technology is unwise and ultimately futile.

From justbrits at comcast.net  Tue Feb 20 02:31:56 2007
From: justbrits at comcast.net (JB@comcast)
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 19:31:56 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] revisiting Mailman content-type problem
References: <PC17602007021916445200464c46bd82@msapiro>
Message-ID: <00eb01c7548e$f4b28d60$6701a8c0@actualshop>

Mark said:

"It's been on my ToDo list long enough. ".

While making something that works 100% Mark, why not suggest that Ron's User's (like I have done to all of mine -:) ) use www.tinyurl.com ??  NEVER had a prob with the generated stuff and it is FREE -;):):) !!

Ed

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 20 02:46:01 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 17:46:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Making all bounces, even temporary ones,
	go to list owner ASAP
In-Reply-To: <26face530702191701i12504aaaka034d4904f25ebc9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007021917460105152120cd84@msapiro>

Kelly Jones wrote:

>Many of my customers run tightly-controlled lists where it's important
>to know (immediately, if possible) if email to any of the members is
>bouncing (eg, an ISP mailing its customer base), even if the bounce is
>temporary.
>
>Is there a way to do this using the bounce processing options in
>Mailman? EG, set the warn threshold really low and have all warnings
>be cc'd to the list owner?


There are a couple of settings. You need to set both
bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner and
bounce_notify_owner_on_disable to Yes. The former sends all messages
received at the -bounces address which aren't recognized and handled
by bounce processing to the list owner. This includes the vacation
autoresponders.

This leaves messages which are recognized as bounces. Of these, bounces
for addresses that aren't list members (possibly a DSN reporting a
final delivery address different from the original) will be discarded
as will 'delayed' notices. The rest will be scored. If you set
bounce_score_threshold to 1.0 or less, the member's delivery will be
disabled on the first bounce and the owner notified along with a copy
of the bounce per bounce_notify_owner_on_disable. Now, the owner will
probably want to re-enable delivery for that member if the owner
thinks the bounce is 'temporary'.

Don't be concerned about 'soft bounces' only scoring 0.5. That's wrong
in the documentation. All bounces scored at all are scored 1.0.

Other caveats. If there are any members with bounce scores currently >=
1.0, even if the info is stale, they will be disabled the next time
cron/disabled runs.

If VERP_PROBES is set to Yes in mm_cfg.py, I think it is possible for
the message to bounce for a 'temporary' reason, and the subsequent
probe to not bounce. In this case, the member won't be disabled and
the owner won't be notified of the original message bounce.


>An obvious hack is to tweak the alias generator to do things like:
>
>listname-bounces: listname-owner
>
>but is there a cleaner (and "officially supported") way?


The only problem with the above is you lose the benefits of automated
bounce processing. If you can arrange for your MTA to both pipe the
-bounces mail to the wrapper for bounce processing and deliver it to
-owner, you can have both.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jogresovich at mfm.com  Tue Feb 20 15:16:58 2007
From: jogresovich at mfm.com (Jason Ogresovich)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 09:16:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Excluding one list from nightly htdig
Message-ID: <45DB02DA.1030905@mfm.com>

All,

We have several lists that are indexed with the nightly htdig script. 
There is one list I would like to exclude from htdig (it's too big, not 
very important, and brings the server to a crawl when htdig runs on this 
list). I examined the list configuration options using the config_list 
script, and also took a look at the blow_away_htdig script. Basically, I 
want htdig to run on all my lists except for this one specific list. The 
nightly_htdig script allows me to name all the lists that it would run 
on, but does not allow me to exclude just one. (naming them all would 
get far too tedious, would have to be updated as new lists come and go, 
etc) Is there a simple way to do this or an option for doing this that I 
may not be seeing?

-Jason

-- 
Jason Ogresovich, Customer Support
MFM Software, Inc.
mailto:support at mfm.com
http://www.mfm.com/
http://support.mfm.com/

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Tue Feb 20 17:06:28 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 08:06:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Excluding one list from nightly htdig
In-Reply-To: <45DB02DA.1030905@mfm.com>
References: <45DB02DA.1030905@mfm.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20070220080538.03a6dd18@crimson-dragon.com>

Jason Ogresovich wrote:
>All,
>
>We have several lists that are indexed with the nightly htdig script.
>There is one list I would like to exclude from htdig (it's too big, not
>very important, and brings the server to a crawl when htdig runs on this
>list). I examined the list configuration options using the config_list
>script, and also took a look at the blow_away_htdig script. Basically, I
>want htdig to run on all my lists except for this one specific list. The
>nightly_htdig script allows me to name all the lists that it would run
>on, but does not allow me to exclude just one. (naming them all would
>get far too tedious, would have to be updated as new lists come and go,
>etc) Is there a simple way to do this or an option for doing this that I
>may not be seeing?
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

This is actually very simple. Just remove the htdig configuration 
file for that list and it will be skipped.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From lawrenqj at gmail.com  Tue Feb 20 17:37:06 2007
From: lawrenqj at gmail.com (Lawren Quigley-Jones)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 11:37:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] importing held messages from dr system
Message-ID: <ba8bff030702200837s15b5506fnc00733f9228fa8fc@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a way to import held messages from one mail system to another?  I
have multiple mailman servers but only manage them from one web interface.
When a message gets held on one of the mail servers that is not primary it
is not accessible via the web interface.  I've tried simply copying the pck
file over, but they aren't recognized.  A restart of mailman doesn't do the
trick either.   I imagine that I would need to initiated a rebuild of a
database.

From vancleef at lostwells.net  Tue Feb 20 18:08:15 2007
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (vancleef at lostwells.net)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 10:08:15 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding Mhonarc to existing Mailman installation
Message-ID: <200702201708.l1KH8FG1015195@julie.lostwells.net>

I am building a new Mailman 2.1.9 installation tree, and want to configure
it with Mhonarc and Mnogosearch.  I notice that the Mhonarc patches
change the config.pck version number from 96 to 96.2 because there
seem to be some changes to the file definition.

I have signed up on the mmi  mailman-mnogosearch mail list and see
what's involved, but have mailman-specific questions.

What happens if I move a config.pck running on stock 2.1.9 (version
96) to this new tree?  Is there something in Mailman that figures out
how to remunge the config.pck file?  

Hank

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 20 19:05:21 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 10:05:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding Mhonarc to existing Mailman installation
In-Reply-To: <200702201708.l1KH8FG1015195@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602007022010052105935afb7606@msapiro>

vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:
>
>What happens if I move a config.pck running on stock 2.1.9 (version
>96) to this new tree?  Is there something in Mailman that figures out
>how to remunge the config.pck file?  


Yes! This is the key to migrating a list to a new version in any
context. See the definition of CheckVersion() in Mailman/MailList.py.

Whenever a list is loaded from config.pck (or even a 2.0.x config.db),
the data version from the file is compared to the version of the
installation, and if it is less, Update is imported from
Mailman/versions.py and called to migrate the list data to the current
version. This is why you can drop a config.pck from an older version
into a running newer version and it just works.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 20 18:50:56 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 09:50:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] importing held messages from dr system
In-Reply-To: <ba8bff030702200837s15b5506fnc00733f9228fa8fc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702200950560593a52f7f09@msapiro>

Lawren Quigley-Jones wrote:

>Is there a way to import held messages from one mail system to another?  I
>have multiple mailman servers but only manage them from one web interface.
>When a message gets held on one of the mail servers that is not primary it
>is not accessible via the web interface.  I've tried simply copying the pck
>file over, but they aren't recognized.  A restart of mailman doesn't do the
>trick either.   I imagine that I would need to initiated a rebuild of a
>database.


Sort of, but not really a rebuild. When a message is held, an entry is
made in the list's request.pck file pointing to the held message. This
is what is needed for the message to be recognized on the other
server. There is also a confirmation cookie created in the list's
pending.pck which points to the request.pck entry so that the message
can be approved or discarded via cookie.

I don't really understand how your 'multiple mailman servers' work, but
I think you have two choices.

Perhaps the most straightforward is to set admin_immed_notify to Yes
and then approve or discard the message via email.

The other choice is to make sure there are no held messages for the
list on the primary server and then copy the data/heldmsg* files and
the requests.pck file for the list. Note that there is no way to
rebuild the request.pck entry from the heldmsg file because it
contains necessary information that isn't in the heldmsg file.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From lawrenqj at gmail.com  Tue Feb 20 22:23:04 2007
From: lawrenqj at gmail.com (Lawren Quigley-Jones)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 21:23:04 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] importing held messages from dr system
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200702200950560593a52f7f09@msapiro>
References: <ba8bff030702200837s15b5506fnc00733f9228fa8fc@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200702200950560593a52f7f09@msapiro>
Message-ID: <ba8bff030702201323jf40c46fvab03fa6b35c9e0d6@mail.gmail.com>

That did it.  Thank you very much for the help.

On 2/20/07, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Lawren Quigley-Jones wrote:
>
> >Is there a way to import held messages from one mail system to
> another?  I
> >have multiple mailman servers but only manage them from one web
> interface.
> >When a message gets held on one of the mail servers that is not primary
> it
> >is not accessible via the web interface.  I've tried simply copying the
> pck
> >file over, but they aren't recognized.  A restart of mailman doesn't do
> the
> >trick either.   I imagine that I would need to initiated a rebuild of a
> >database.
>
>
> Sort of, but not really a rebuild. When a message is held, an entry is
> made in the list's request.pck file pointing to the held message. This
> is what is needed for the message to be recognized on the other
> server. There is also a confirmation cookie created in the list's
> pending.pck which points to the request.pck entry so that the message
> can be approved or discarded via cookie.
>
> I don't really understand how your 'multiple mailman servers' work, but
> I think you have two choices.
>
> Perhaps the most straightforward is to set admin_immed_notify to Yes
> and then approve or discard the message via email.
>
> The other choice is to make sure there are no held messages for the
> list on the primary server and then copy the data/heldmsg* files and
> the requests.pck file for the list. Note that there is no way to
> rebuild the request.pck entry from the heldmsg file because it
> contains necessary information that isn't in the heldmsg file.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From greg at headingup.net  Tue Feb 20 23:23:49 2007
From: greg at headingup.net (Greg Sims)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:23:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailbox Not Found
Message-ID: <000601c7553d$ce1e5990$650a2b0a@WS>

Hi There,

 

I have mailman installed, created a list, configured the list, loaded some
email addresses and installed custom .html and .txt files.  I tested the
system by subscribing to the list using the custom subscribe.html file we've
used in the past.  I received a confirmation email requesting that I reply
to confirm my subscription.  When I replied to the email, the email bounced
with a:

 

For <newlist-request at dom.ain>, Site (dom.ain/xx.xx.xx.xx) said: 550 sorry,
no mailbox here by that name. (#5.7.17)

 

I did need to make some updates to mm_cfg.py at install time.  I updated the
DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_URL_EMAIL.  I have not done much of anything
else to customize the install.

 

Please give me a pointer on how to find the problem with this MailBox Not
Found.

 

Thanks, Greg

 


From sfeng at stanford.edu  Tue Feb 20 23:41:21 2007
From: sfeng at stanford.edu (Xueshan Feng)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:41:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages got stuck in "in" queue due to one "bad"
	message
In-Reply-To: <mailman.8920.1169249786.32030.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.8920.1169249786.32030.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <1172011281.25490.411.camel@hoss.stanford.edu>

Hello,

We are running mailman 2.1.9. Recently we had a problem that mailman's
Incoming qrunner died hard, which caused messages accumulated under
qfiles/in directory.  Restarting mailman didn't help. We finally
identified a message on top of the queue, moved it aside, restarted
mailman again, then mail will start flow. 

Putting that message back to the in queue will trigger the problem. The
sender actually tried to send it again, and it caused the same problem.

Before I got into the details of mailman logs, I'd like to ask:

1. What's the best way to detect "stalled" condition like this? We do
monitor qrunner processes but in this case it didn't help because the
qrunners were still running. Now I put in a script to monitor the number
of files in "in" queue, and if it reaches a threshold, sends alert. 

2. Why this message didn't get moved to shunt directory?

3. Can the mailman recover itself without human intervention? 

Details are followed:

The following error message will repeat a couple of times in error log
when this message was processed: 


Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722): Traceback (most recent call last):
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
"/var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in ?
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      main()
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
"/var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      qrunner.run()
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 71, in run
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      msg, msgdata =
self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 164, in dequeue
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      msg =
email.message_from_string(msg, Message.Message)
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/__init__.py", line 52, in message_from_string
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      return Parser(_class,
strict=strict).parsestr(s)
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      return
self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      self._parsebody(root, fp,
firstbodyline)
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Parser.py", line 240, in _parsebody
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      return
self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      self._parsebody(root, fp,
firstbodyline)
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Parser.py", line 146, in _parsebody
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      boundary =
container.get_boundary()
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Message.py", line 743, in get_boundary
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      boundary =
self.get_param('boundary', missing)
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Message.py", line 608, in get_param
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      for k, v in
self._get_params_preserve(failobj, header):
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Message.py", line 555, in _get_params_preserve
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      params =
Utils.decode_params(params)
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Utils.py", line 337, in decode_params
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      charset, language, value =
decode_rfc2231(EMPTYSTRING.join(value))
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Utils.py", line 284, in decode_rfc2231
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      charset, language, s = parts
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722): ValueError :  unpack list of wrong
size

The qrunner log shows:
Feb 20 07:55:52 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 27941, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
[restarting]
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 (25722) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 25722, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
[restarting]
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 (25723) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 25723, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
[restarting]
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 (25724) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 25724, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
[restarting]
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 (25725) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 25725, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
[restarting]
Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 (25726) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Feb 20 07:55:54 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 25726, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
[restarting]
Feb 20 07:55:54 2007 (25727) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Feb 20 07:55:54 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 25727, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
[restarting]
Feb 20 07:55:54 2007 (25728) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Feb 20 07:55:54 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 25728, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
[restarting]
Feb 20 07:55:54 2007 (25729) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Feb 20 07:55:54 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 25729, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
[restarting]
Feb 20 07:55:54 2007 (25731) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Feb 20 07:55:55 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 25731, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
[restarting]
Feb 20 07:55:55 2007 (25734) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Feb 20 07:55:55 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 25734, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
[restarting]


Xueshan
--



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb 21 00:37:12 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 15:37:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages got stuck in "in" queue due to one
	"bad"message
In-Reply-To: <1172011281.25490.411.camel@hoss.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702201537120875c82ba4f7@msapiro>

Xueshan Feng wrote:
>
>We are running mailman 2.1.9. Recently we had a problem that mailman's
>Incoming qrunner died hard, which caused messages accumulated under
>qfiles/in directory.  Restarting mailman didn't help. We finally
>identified a message on top of the queue, moved it aside, restarted
>mailman again, then mail will start flow. 
>
>Putting that message back to the in queue will trigger the problem. The
>sender actually tried to send it again, and it caused the same problem.
>
>Before I got into the details of mailman logs, I'd like to ask:
>
>1. What's the best way to detect "stalled" condition like this? We do
>monitor qrunner processes but in this case it didn't help because the
>qrunners were still running. Now I put in a script to monitor the number
>of files in "in" queue, and if it reaches a threshold, sends alert. 


Actually, If I understand the situation correctly, IncomingRunner will
not be running. It will die and be restarted, but after the 10th
restart/die, it won't restart again (but this seems incorrect - see
below).


>2. Why this message didn't get moved to shunt directory?


I don't know why it didn't shunt. From the traceback, the message
should have shunted and that should have been the end of it. Also, the
problem with decode_rfc2231 in email.Utils that seems to be the
underlying issue here was fixed in email 2.5.8 which shipped with
Mailman 2.1.9 and should be in Mailman's pythonlib directory. Your
traceback says you are getting the email library from your Python 2.3
installation. This is not correct and should not happen if Mailman is
properly installed.

If I understand the actual problem with the message, it is caused by an
error in email 2.5.7 and earlier and is precipitated by a message with
an apostrophe (') in the subject.


>3. Can the mailman recover itself without human intervention? 


I don't understand why the message didn't shunt. I also don't
understand why IncomingRunner was restarted more than 10 times. Have
you changed

MAX_RESTARTS = 10

in bin/mailmanctl?

Was there a second traceback with only one date/time header following
the one you report? If so, what was it?

Have you changed Mailman/Queue/Runner.py in any way?

>
>Details are followed:


More comments below:


>The following error message will repeat a couple of times in error log
>when this message was processed: 
>
>
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722): Traceback (most recent call last):
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
>"/var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in ?
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      main()
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
>"/var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      qrunner.run()
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
>"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 71, in run
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
>"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      msg, msgdata =
>self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
>"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 164, in dequeue
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      msg =
>email.message_from_string(msg, Message.Message)
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
>"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/__init__.py", line 52, in message_from_string


This and subsequent email modules should come from
/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email, not from /usr/lib/python2.3/email.


>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      return Parser(_class,
>strict=strict).parsestr(s)
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
>"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      return
>self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
>"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      self._parsebody(root, fp,
>firstbodyline)
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
>"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Parser.py", line 240, in _parsebody
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
>"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      return
>self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
>"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      self._parsebody(root, fp,
>firstbodyline)
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
>"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Parser.py", line 146, in _parsebody
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      boundary =
>container.get_boundary()
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
>"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Message.py", line 743, in get_boundary
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      boundary =
>self.get_param('boundary', missing)
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
>"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Message.py", line 608, in get_param
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      for k, v in
>self._get_params_preserve(failobj, header):
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
>"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Message.py", line 555, in _get_params_preserve
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      params =
>Utils.decode_params(params)
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
>"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Utils.py", line 337, in decode_params
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      charset, language, value =
>decode_rfc2231(EMPTYSTRING.join(value))
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
>"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Utils.py", line 284, in decode_rfc2231
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      charset, language, s = parts
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722): ValueError :  unpack list of wrong
>size


Is there a second, different traceback immediately following this?



>The qrunner log shows:
>Feb 20 07:55:52 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 27941, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
>[restarting]
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 (25722) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 25722, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
>[restarting]
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 (25723) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 25723, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
>[restarting]
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 (25724) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 25724, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
>[restarting]
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 (25725) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 25725, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
>[restarting]
>Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 (25726) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 20 07:55:54 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 25726, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
>[restarting]
>Feb 20 07:55:54 2007 (25727) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 20 07:55:54 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 25727, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
>[restarting]
>Feb 20 07:55:54 2007 (25728) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 20 07:55:54 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 25728, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
>[restarting]
>Feb 20 07:55:54 2007 (25729) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 20 07:55:54 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 25729, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
>[restarting]
>Feb 20 07:55:54 2007 (25731) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 20 07:55:55 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 25731, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
>[restarting]
>Feb 20 07:55:55 2007 (25734) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
>Feb 20 07:55:55 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 25734, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
>[restarting]


Why more than 10 restarts?

There is a post at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2007-February/019426.html>
about a somewhat different problem with a similar result. There is a
patch attached to that post which may help this situation, but the
real issues here are two: Why isn't your Mailman using pythonlib, and
Why did IncomingRunner die and not shunt the message?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb 21 01:03:31 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 16:03:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailbox Not Found
In-Reply-To: <000601c7553d$ce1e5990$650a2b0a@WS>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702201603310000386ecdff@msapiro>

Greg Sims wrote:
>
>For <newlist-request at dom.ain>, Site (dom.ain/xx.xx.xx.xx) said: 550 sorry,
>no mailbox here by that name. (#5.7.17)


You need aliases or whatever in your MTA to deliver such mail to
Mailman. What you need depends on your MTA which is ?

Searching the FAQ <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> for alias
will return a couple of useful articles (e.g. sec 2 of 3.14 and
perhaps 4.49). Also, see the relevant subsection of
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/mail-server.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Feb 21 03:35:33 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 11:35:33 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages got stuck in "in" queue due to
	one	"bad"message
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200702201537120875c82ba4f7@msapiro>
References: <1172011281.25490.411.camel@hoss.stanford.edu>
	<PC1760200702201537120875c82ba4f7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <87fy90me4q.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > >2. Why this message didn't get moved to shunt directory?
 > 
 > I don't know why it didn't shunt.

At least in earlier implementations of the email lib and Mailman, the
original parse of the message was not enclosed in the shunt mechanism,
so the exception got caught by the catchall handler, not the shunt
handler.

As of 2.1.5, the I18N stuff made assumptions that certain things were
ASCII, and that it was handling MIME conversions correctly.  These
assumptions have been regularly violated, and patches have been
applied piecemeal, but AFAICS (from a 2.1.5 vs. 2.1.8 diff I did a
while back) the fundamental architectural issue was not addressed.  It
would appear that that still hasn't been done.

It's not obvious to me that that's a change that's appropriate for
2.1.


From sfeng at stanford.edu  Wed Feb 21 04:02:02 2007
From: sfeng at stanford.edu (Xueshan Feng)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 19:02:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages got stuck in "in" queue due to
	one	"bad"message
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200702201537120875c82ba4f7@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200702201537120875c82ba4f7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1172026922.25490.465.camel@hoss.stanford.edu>

On Tue, 2007-02-20 at 15:37 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Xueshan Feng wrote:
> >
> >We are running mailman 2.1.9. Recently we had a problem that mailman's
> >Incoming qrunner died hard, which caused messages accumulated under
> >qfiles/in directory.  Restarting mailman didn't help. We finally
> >identified a message on top of the queue, moved it aside, restarted
> >mailman again, then mail will start flow. 
> >
> >Putting that message back to the in queue will trigger the problem. The
> >sender actually tried to send it again, and it caused the same problem.
> >
> >Before I got into the details of mailman logs, I'd like to ask:
> >
> >1. What's the best way to detect "stalled" condition like this? We do
> >monitor qrunner processes but in this case it didn't help because the
> >qrunners were still running. Now I put in a script to monitor the number
> >of files in "in" queue, and if it reaches a threshold, sends alert. 
> 
> 
> Actually, If I understand the situation correctly, IncomingRunner will
> not be running. It will die and be restarted, but after the 10th
> restart/die, it won't restart again (but this seems incorrect - see
> below).

The qrunner log shows they died, but if I do ps -ef |grep
IncomingRunner, they are still there. 


> 
> 
> >2. Why this message didn't get moved to shunt directory?
> 
> 
> I don't know why it didn't shunt. From the traceback, the message
> should have shunted and that should have been the end of it. Also, the
> problem with decode_rfc2231 in email.Utils that seems to be the
> underlying issue here was fixed in email 2.5.8 which shipped with
> Mailman 2.1.9 and should be in Mailman's pythonlib directory. Your
> traceback says you are getting the email library from your Python 2.3
> installation. This is not correct and should not happen if Mailman is
> properly installed.

You nailed it! 

We indeed re-packaged Mailman with a lot of Stanford's own patches. When
we upgrade from 2.1.8 to 2.1.9, I missed  Mailman's own pythonlib/email
installation in Debian rule file.

I just re-packaged it and tested the new package. The message that
caused the problem now is accepted without a problem!


> 
> >3. Can the mailman recover itself without human intervention? 

> I don't understand why the message didn't shunt. I also don't
> understand why IncomingRunner was restarted more than 10 times. Have
> you changed
> 
> MAX_RESTARTS = 10
> 
> in bin/mailmanctl?

No that's not changed. It is still 10. 


> 
> Was there a second traceback with only one date/time header following
> the one you report? If so, what was it?

Yes, there were more similar traceback in the logs. There are 10
actually.

> 
> Have you changed Mailman/Queue/Runner.py in any way?

Not that program.


> 
> >
> >Details are followed:
> 
> 
> More comments below:
> 
> 
> >The following error message will repeat a couple of times in error log
> >when this message was processed: 
> >
> >
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722): Traceback (most recent call last):
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
> >"/var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in ?
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      main()
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
> >"/var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      qrunner.run()
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
> >"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 71, in run
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
> >"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      msg, msgdata =
> >self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
> >"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 164, in dequeue
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      msg =
> >email.message_from_string(msg, Message.Message)
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
> >"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/__init__.py", line 52, in message_from_string
> 
> 
> This and subsequent email modules should come from
> /usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email, not from /usr/lib/python2.3/email.
> 
> 
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      return Parser(_class,
> >strict=strict).parsestr(s)
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
> >"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      return
> >self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
> >"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      self._parsebody(root, fp,
> >firstbodyline)
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
> >"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Parser.py", line 240, in _parsebody
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
> >"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      return
> >self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
> >"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      self._parsebody(root, fp,
> >firstbodyline)
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
> >"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Parser.py", line 146, in _parsebody
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      boundary =
> >container.get_boundary()
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
> >"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Message.py", line 743, in get_boundary
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      boundary =
> >self.get_param('boundary', missing)
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
> >"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Message.py", line 608, in get_param
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      for k, v in
> >self._get_params_preserve(failobj, header):
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
> >"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Message.py", line 555, in _get_params_preserve
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      params =
> >Utils.decode_params(params)
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
> >"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Utils.py", line 337, in decode_params
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      charset, language, value =
> >decode_rfc2231(EMPTYSTRING.join(value))
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):   File
> >"/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Utils.py", line 284, in decode_rfc2231
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722):      charset, language, s = parts
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 qrunner(25722): ValueError :  unpack list of wrong
> >size
> 
> 
> Is there a second, different traceback immediately following this?
> 
> 
> 
> >The qrunner log shows:
> >Feb 20 07:55:52 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> >(pid: 27941, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
> >[restarting]
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 (25722) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> >(pid: 25722, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
> >[restarting]
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 (25723) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> >(pid: 25723, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
> >[restarting]
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 (25724) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> >(pid: 25724, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
> >[restarting]
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 (25725) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> >(pid: 25725, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
> >[restarting]
> >Feb 20 07:55:53 2007 (25726) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 20 07:55:54 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> >(pid: 25726, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
> >[restarting]
> >Feb 20 07:55:54 2007 (25727) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 20 07:55:54 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> >(pid: 25727, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
> >[restarting]
> >Feb 20 07:55:54 2007 (25728) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 20 07:55:54 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> >(pid: 25728, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
> >[restarting]
> >Feb 20 07:55:54 2007 (25729) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 20 07:55:54 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> >(pid: 25729, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
> >[restarting]
> >Feb 20 07:55:54 2007 (25731) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 20 07:55:55 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> >(pid: 25731, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
> >[restarting]
> >Feb 20 07:55:55 2007 (25734) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
> >Feb 20 07:55:55 2007 (27933) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
> >(pid: 25734, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/4)
> >[restarting]
> 

> 
> Why more than 10 restarts?

Hmm, that's 11. I don't know. The following line followed the 11th
restarting:

Feb 20 07:55:55 2007 (27933) Qrunner IncomingRunner reached maximum
restart limit of 10, not restarting.


> 
> There is a post at
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2007-February/019426.html>
> about a somewhat different problem with a similar result. There is a
> patch attached to that post which may help this situation, but the
> real issues here are two: Why isn't your Mailman using pythonlib, and
> Why did IncomingRunner die and not shunt the message?

Is it possible because of it was using python2.3's email lib instead of
Mailman's own?

Thanks a lot! The problem is fixed after the Mailman's own
pythonlib/email is installed.

Xueshan
--


> 
-- 
------------------------------
Xueshan Feng (aka. Susan Feng)            

Shared Services, ITSS
Stanford University, CA 94305-3090

255 Panama St.
Room 157, Polya Hall
Stanford University
Stanford, CA 94305-4136




From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb 21 04:13:39 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 19:13:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages got stuck in "in" queue due to
	one"bad"message
In-Reply-To: <87fy90me4q.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC176020070220191339043792a4153c@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>
>At least in earlier implementations of the email lib and Mailman, the
>original parse of the message was not enclosed in the shunt mechanism,
>so the exception got caught by the catchall handler, not the shunt
>handler.

You're right Stephen. I overlooked that. The dequeue of the message is
in it's own try, not in the main try that runs the process. Thus, the
failure to parse the message in dequeue is supposed to result in the
message being discarded and an 'Ignoring unparseable message:' entry
in the 'error' log. The problem here is ValueError is not one of the
exceptions we catch in the try around dequeue. We only catch
email.Errors.MessageParseError.

Another problem is in implementing backup queue entries to prevent
message loss in the event of catastrophic failure, we forgot to delete
the backup queue entry at this juncture. The attached patch needs to
be applied to Mailman/Queue/Runner.py, but that won't fix this
immediate problem. For that, we need to expand the exceptions we catch
at

            try:
                # Ask the switchboard for the message and metadata
objects
                # associated with this filebase.
                msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
            except email.Errors.MessageParseError, e:

A workaround in the interim is to change the except above to

            except Exception, e:

This will require some more thought for a permanent fix.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: Runner.patch.txt
Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20070220/760fb6e3/attachment-0001.txt 

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb 21 04:28:01 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 19:28:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages got stuck in "in" queue due to
	one"bad"message
In-Reply-To: <1172026922.25490.465.camel@hoss.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020070220192801034392a414b8@msapiro>

Xueshan Feng wrote:

>On Tue, 2007-02-20 at 15:37 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Xueshan Feng wrote:
>> 
>> Actually, If I understand the situation correctly, IncomingRunner will
>> not be running. It will die and be restarted, but after the 10th
>> restart/die, it won't restart again (but this seems incorrect - see
>> below).
>
>The qrunner log shows they died, but if I do ps -ef |grep
>IncomingRunner, they are still there. 


All four of them?


>> >3. Can the mailman recover itself without human intervention? 
>
>> I don't understand why the message didn't shunt.


I understand why the message didn't shunt. See Stephen's post and my
reply in this thread.


>> Why more than 10 restarts?
>
>Hmm, that's 11. I don't know. The following line followed the 11th
>restarting:
>
>Feb 20 07:55:55 2007 (27933) Qrunner IncomingRunner reached maximum
>restart limit of 10, not restarting.


Maybe it counts from zero and gets 11. It looks OK. It reached the
limit and didn't restart, but there should only have been the 3
remaining IncomingRunners, not four when you looked.


>Thanks a lot! The problem is fixed after the Mailman's own
>pythonlib/email is installed.


There are still some remaining Runner issues. These will all be cleaned
up in Mailman 2.1.10. In the mean time, I may release a patch after I
fully work out what to do.

The bottom line is this error should not have caused the IncomingRunner
to die, and it should not have been looping on the bad message. These
will be fixed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From sfeng at Stanford.EDU  Wed Feb 21 05:37:42 2007
From: sfeng at Stanford.EDU (Xueshan Feng)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 20:37:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages got stuck in "in" queue due to
	one"bad"message
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070220192801034392a414b8@msapiro>
References: <PC176020070220192801034392a414b8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1172032662.45dbcc9673b3a@webmail.stanford.edu>

Quoting Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>:

> Xueshan Feng wrote:
> 
> >On Tue, 2007-02-20 at 15:37 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >> Xueshan Feng wrote:
> >> 
> >> Actually, If I understand the situation correctly, IncomingRunner will
> >> not be running. It will die and be restarted, but after the 10th
> >> restart/die, it won't restart again (but this seems incorrect - see
> >> below).
> >
> >The qrunner log shows they died, but if I do ps -ef |grep
> >IncomingRunner, they are still there. 
> 

>> All four of them?

Only 3:

mailman:/var/lib/mailman/qfiles# ps -ef | grep Inco
list     21394 21383  0 18:45 ?        00:00:17 /usr/bin/python
/var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:4 -s
list     21395 21383  0 18:45 ?        00:00:13 /usr/bin/python
/var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:1:4 -s
list     21396 21383  0 18:45 ?        00:00:15 /usr/bin/python
/var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:2:4 -s

A these 3 remaining ones would not do the work?

Xueshan
--


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb 21 06:06:15 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 21:06:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages got stuck in "in" queue due to
	one"bad"message
In-Reply-To: <1172032662.45dbcc9673b3a@webmail.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702202106150531e08b0b42@msapiro>

Xueshan Feng wrote:

>Quoting Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>:
>
>>> All four of them?
>
>Only 3:
>
>mailman:/var/lib/mailman/qfiles# ps -ef | grep Inco
>list     21394 21383  0 18:45 ?        00:00:17 /usr/bin/python
>/var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:4 -s
>list     21395 21383  0 18:45 ?        00:00:13 /usr/bin/python
>/var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:1:4 -s
>list     21396 21383  0 18:45 ?        00:00:15 /usr/bin/python
>/var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:2:4 -s
>
>A these 3 remaining ones would not do the work?


You are processing the 'in' queue in 4 slices with 4 IncomingRunner
instances.

You do this by redefining or modifying the QRUNNERS list in mm_cfg.py.
The entry in the list for IncomingRunner is

    ('IncomingRunner', 4),

meaning that there will be four IncomingRunner instances processing
slices 0:4, 1:4, 2:4 and 3:4 (the 3:4 runner is missing above).

Slicing works by dividing the queue entry hash space into slices (2^n
in general, 4 in this case. Each slice has its own runner. A portion
of each queue entry's name (the part between '+' and '.pck') is a 20
byte hash of a pickle of the message + the list name + the time of
enqueueing expressed as 40 hex digits. In this case, the first quarter
of the hash space is processed by the 0:4 runner, the second quarter
by the 1:4 runner, etc. If one of the four runners isn't running, its
portion of the hash space will not be processed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From sfeng at Stanford.EDU  Wed Feb 21 06:39:22 2007
From: sfeng at Stanford.EDU (Xueshan Feng)
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 21:39:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages got stuck in "in" queue due to
	one"bad"message
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200702202106150531e08b0b42@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200702202106150531e08b0b42@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1172036362.45dbdb0a6cfb0@webmail.stanford.edu>

Quoting Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>:

> Xueshan Feng wrote:
> 
> >Quoting Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>:
> >
> >>> All four of them?
> >
> >Only 3:
> >
> >mailman:/var/lib/mailman/qfiles# ps -ef | grep Inco
> >list     21394 21383  0 18:45 ?        00:00:17 /usr/bin/python
> >/var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:4 -s
> >list     21395 21383  0 18:45 ?        00:00:13 /usr/bin/python
> >/var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:1:4 -s
> >list     21396 21383  0 18:45 ?        00:00:15 /usr/bin/python
> >/var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:2:4 -s
> >
> >A these 3 remaining ones would not do the work?
> 
> 
> You are processing the 'in' queue in 4 slices with 4 IncomingRunner
> instances.
> 
> You do this by redefining or modifying the QRUNNERS list in mm_cfg.py.
> The entry in the list for IncomingRunner is
> 
>     ('IncomingRunner', 4),

That's exactly I have in our mm_cfg.py.
> 
> meaning that there will be four IncomingRunner instances processing
> slices 0:4, 1:4, 2:4 and 3:4 (the 3:4 runner is missing above).

> 
> Slicing works by dividing the queue entry hash space into slices (2^n
> in general, 4 in this case. Each slice has its own runner. A portion
> of each queue entry's name (the part between '+' and '.pck') is a 20
> byte hash of a pickle of the message + the list name + the time of
> enqueueing expressed as 40 hex digits. In this case, the first quarter
> of the hash space is processed by the 0:4 runner, the second quarter
> by the 1:4 runner, etc. If one of the four runners isn't running, its
> portion of the hash space will not be processed.

Wow, that's interesting. I was wondering how the long file name was
generated in the queue. For effective monitoring, I should check total
qrunner instances to match up what's configured in mm_cfg.

Thanks for the explanation!

Xueshan




From alan at blogometer.com  Sun Feb 18 13:14:58 2007
From: alan at blogometer.com (Alan Gutierrez)
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 06:14:58 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List email domain versus archive / web admin domain.
Message-ID: <45D84342.2000609@blogometer.com>

I've just moved my mail server to a new server. I used to run my lists 
on the same server where I hosted web sites, so that I was able to have 
the following.

bloggers at thinknola.com
http://thinknola.com/mailman/listinfo
http://thinknola.com/mailman/listinfo/bloggers
http://thinknola.com/pipermail/bloggers/

The website thinknola.com will stay at the current machine.

My users are not terribly savvy and I don't want to change things too 
much. They should not have to adjust their address books. Links can 
redirect.

I tried using mod_proxy, but that meant that the mailman CGI was unable 
to determine the hostname, and therefore, did not provide for listings 
of hosted lists in /mailman/listinfo

Google recommends this solution:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2003-January/025330.html

Is this the preferred recipe?

Incidentally, the layout of this list...

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
mailman-users at python.org

Would be okay. I'm wondering if it doesn't follow the recipe in the link 
above.

-- 
Alan Gutierrez
504 717 1428 - alan at blogometer.com - http://blogometer.com/
Think New Orleans - http://thinknola.com/

From jmwhitco at samford.edu  Wed Feb 21 18:37:43 2007
From: jmwhitco at samford.edu (Whitcomb, Jeff)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 11:37:43 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Making all bounces, even temporary ones,
	go to list owner
In-Reply-To: <mailman.33.1171969215.27714.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.33.1171969215.27714.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <821AB4E5068CAB43A2539D4DD81F38E304F6304F@SAMFORDMAIL.ad.samford.edu>

In response to Mark's email number 9 below.  I have always received
delayed messages as a list owner, and did not know that I am not
supposed to having the list configured as he mentions.

The message I get is:

"The attached message was received as a bounce, but either the bounce
format was not recognized, or no member addresses could be extracted
from it.  This mailing list has been configured to send all unrecognized
bounce messages to the list administrator(s)."

When I open the attachment, it has:


"Your message has been delayed and is still awaiting delivery to the
following recipient(s):

<email address>
(Was addressed to <email address>)
Message delayed


Could not resolve mail server name because DNS server did not respond in
time."


The delayed message also has two attachments, one is an error status
message that says:


"Reporting-MTA: dns; mailrelay.<originating domain>
Received-From-MTA: dns; server5.<originating domain> (unverified
[xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx])
Arrival-Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 15:44:47 -0600

Final-Recipient: rfc822; <destination email address>
Action: delayed
Status: 0.0.0 (Unknown class - no additional status information
available)"


The other attachment appears to be the header of the original email.

Before I went through and stripped out server addresses and put fake
stuff in, I wanted to see what information I need to send where to
determine if this is an unrecognized bounce format that needs to be
added to MailMan, or if it might be something else?

Thanks,

Jeff Whitcomb, MCP
Technology Services Manager
Cumberland School of Law - Samford University
205-726-4662

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+jmwhitco=samford.edu at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+jmwhitco=samford.edu at python.org] On Behalf
Of mailman-users-request at python.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 5:00 AM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 36, Issue 28

Send Mailman-Users mailing list submissions to
	mailman-users at python.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	mailman-users-request at python.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
	mailman-users-owner at python.org

When replying, lease edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Mailman-Users digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. pipermail customization (Denis)
   2. Re: pipermail customization (Mark Sapiro)
   3. Re: pipermail customization (Denis)
   4. revisiting Mailman content-type problem (Ron Brogden)
   5. Re: pipermail customization (Mark Sapiro)
   6. Re: revisiting Mailman content-type problem (Mark Sapiro)
   7. Making all bounces, even temporary ones,	go to list owner
      ASAP (Kelly Jones)
   8. Re: revisiting Mailman content-type problem (JB at comcast)
   9. Re: Making all bounces, even temporary ones,	go to list owner
      ASAP (Mark Sapiro)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 19:29:00 +0200
From: Denis <denis.uzvik at gmail.com>
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pipermail customization
To: mailman-users at python.org
Message-ID: <1249068897.20070219192900 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi guys ..
It's possible customize archived message page? (like
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-April/035963.html
)

add custom header-footer-css ?

As I understand this pages by generated by papermail. But
unfortunately i can't find way to customize papermail.


Thanks!




------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 09:43:33 -0800
From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] pipermail customization
To: Denis <denis.uzvik at gmail.com>, mailman-users at python.org
Message-ID: <PC1760200702190943330562509e0773 at msapiro>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Denis wrote:

>It's possible customize archived message page? (like
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-April/035963.html
>)
>
>add custom header-footer-css ?


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>.

The template is article.html.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 20:00:27 +0200
From: Denis <denis.uzvik at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] pipermail customization
To: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Message-ID: <1448776887.20070219200027 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Thanks, this is interesting!
I can't understand how to force rebild  files from
/usr/local/mailman2/archives/private/webman/2007-February/*

Seems for new files all ok.

/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl restart  - doesn't help : (




Can you advice please?

> Denis wrote:

>>It's possible customize archived message page? (like
>>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-April/035963.html
>>)
>>
>>add custom header-footer-css ?


> See
>
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>.

> The template is article.html.






------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 12:30:40 -0800
From: Ron Brogden <rb at islandnet.com>
Subject: [Mailman-Users] revisiting Mailman content-type problem
To: Mailman Users <mailman-users at python.org>
Message-ID: <200702191230.40080.rb at islandnet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="us-ascii"

Howdy.  While researching a problem that a user was having with long
URLs 
getting wrapped in their Mac mail client I came across the following
thread 
from last year dicussing the very same problem:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-February/049477.html

To summarize, "delsp=yes; format=flowed" is getting dropped during
Mailman's 
parsing of the message.  At the time of the note above Mark Sapiro  said
that 
this was due to a mix of issues within Mailman plus the underlaying
Python 
libraries.

Has there been any change of the status of this issue or is the only 
workaround still to turn off attachement scrubbing and empty the header
/ 
footer?

Mark said previously: 

"You might be able to avoid the problem if you set scrub_nondigest to No
and make sure both msg_header and msg_footer are empty, but this may
not be satisfactory for other reasons."

Cheers!

Ron

-- 
islandnet.com
http://www.islandnet.com
support at islandnet.com
ph: (250) 383-0096 fax: (250) 383-6698


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 12:39:22 -0800
From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] pipermail customization
To: Denis <denis.uzvik at gmail.com>
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Message-ID: <PC17602007021912392208125df97002 at msapiro>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Denis wrote:
>
>I can't understand how to force rebild  files from
>/usr/local/mailman2/archives/private/webman/2007-February/*
>
>Seems for new files all ok.
>
>/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl restart  - doesn't help : (


You have to rebuild the archive. See 'bin/arch --help'. If this archive
is entirely from a recent Mailman, you should have no problem, but if
early parts of the archive are from older Mailman, see 'bin/cleanarch
--help'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 16:44:52 -0800
From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] revisiting Mailman content-type problem
To: Ron Brogden <rb at islandnet.com>,	Mailman Users
	<mailman-users at python.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602007021916445200464c46bd82 at msapiro>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Ron Brogden wrote:

>Howdy.  While researching a problem that a user was having with long
URLs 
>getting wrapped in their Mac mail client I came across the following
thread 
>from last year dicussing the very same problem:
>
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-February/049477.htm
l
>
>To summarize, "delsp=yes; format=flowed" is getting dropped during
Mailman's 
>parsing of the message.  At the time of the note above Mark Sapiro
said that 
>this was due to a mix of issues within Mailman plus the underlaying
Python 
>libraries.
>
>Has there been any change of the status of this issue or is the only 
>workaround still to turn off attachement scrubbing and empty the header
/ 
>footer?


It's been on my ToDo list long enough. Attached is a patch you can try
if you are willing. This patch should preserve the format and delsp
parameters on Content-Type headers for the original message body.

A couple of remarks.

If msg_header and/or msg_footer contain lines with trailing spaces, if
these are added to a Format=flowed message body, the header and/or
footer will be flowed by the end MUA - make sure these do not have
trailing spaces.

In looking at the code to develop the patch, I don't really see how the
dropping of the Format and DelSp parameters causes ultimate improper
wrapping of scrubber URLs, so I'm not sure that this patch fixes that.
The problem is real and definitely manifests itself in other ways, so
the patch (assuming it is good - I did test it to make sure it didn't
break anything obvious) is needed. I'm just not sure if it will fix
your immediate problem.

Please try the patch if you can, and report. If it doesn't fix the
wrapped URLs, I'll probably need message samples to figure it out.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: flowed.patch.txt
Url:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20070219/93dd
c3ac/attachment-0001.txt 

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 18:01:45 -0700
From: "Kelly Jones" <kelly.terry.jones at gmail.com>
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Making all bounces, even temporary ones,
go
	to list owner ASAP
To: mailman-users at python.org
Message-ID:
	<26face530702191701i12504aaaka034d4904f25ebc9 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Many of my customers run tightly-controlled lists where it's important
to know (immediately, if possible) if email to any of the members is
bouncing (eg, an ISP mailing its customer base), even if the bounce is
temporary.

Is there a way to do this using the bounce processing options in
Mailman? EG, set the warn threshold really low and have all warnings
be cc'd to the list owner?

An obvious hack is to tweak the alias generator to do things like:

listname-bounces: listname-owner

but is there a cleaner (and "officially supported") way?

I realize the list owners will also get "vacation" replies, but that's
OK (in this situation, it's worth the hassle of getting these to know
when email is really bouncing)

-- 
We're just a Bunch Of Regular Guys, a collective group that's trying
to understand and assimilate technology. We feel that resistance to
new ideas and technology is unwise and ultimately futile.


------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 19:31:56 -0600
From: "JB at comcast" <justbrits at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] revisiting Mailman content-type problem
To: "Mailman Users" <mailman-users at python.org>
Message-ID: <00eb01c7548e$f4b28d60$6701a8c0 at actualshop>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Mark said:

"It's been on my ToDo list long enough. ".

While making something that works 100% Mark, why not suggest that Ron's
User's (like I have done to all of mine -:) ) use www.tinyurl.com ??
NEVER had a prob with the generated stuff and it is FREE -;):):) !!

Ed

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 17:46:01 -0800
From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Making all bounces, even temporary ones,
	go to list owner ASAP
To: "Kelly Jones" <kelly.terry.jones at gmail.com>,
	mailman-users at python.org
Message-ID: <PC17602007021917460105152120cd84 at msapiro>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Kelly Jones wrote:

>Many of my customers run tightly-controlled lists where it's important
>to know (immediately, if possible) if email to any of the members is
>bouncing (eg, an ISP mailing its customer base), even if the bounce is
>temporary.
>
>Is there a way to do this using the bounce processing options in
>Mailman? EG, set the warn threshold really low and have all warnings
>be cc'd to the list owner?


There are a couple of settings. You need to set both
bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner and
bounce_notify_owner_on_disable to Yes. The former sends all messages
received at the -bounces address which aren't recognized and handled
by bounce processing to the list owner. This includes the vacation
autoresponders.

This leaves messages which are recognized as bounces. Of these, bounces
for addresses that aren't list members (possibly a DSN reporting a
final delivery address different from the original) will be discarded
as will 'delayed' notices. The rest will be scored. If you set
bounce_score_threshold to 1.0 or less, the member's delivery will be
disabled on the first bounce and the owner notified along with a copy
of the bounce per bounce_notify_owner_on_disable. Now, the owner will
probably want to re-enable delivery for that member if the owner
thinks the bounce is 'temporary'.

Don't be concerned about 'soft bounces' only scoring 0.5. That's wrong
in the documentation. All bounces scored at all are scored 1.0.

Other caveats. If there are any members with bounce scores currently >=
1.0, even if the info is stale, they will be disabled the next time
cron/disabled runs.

If VERP_PROBES is set to Yes in mm_cfg.py, I think it is possible for
the message to bounce for a 'temporary' reason, and the subsequent
probe to not bounce. In this case, the member won't be disabled and
the owner won't be notified of the original message bounce.


>An obvious hack is to tweak the alias generator to do things like:
>
>listname-bounces: listname-owner
>
>but is there a cleaner (and "officially supported") way?


The only problem with the above is you lose the benefits of automated
bounce processing. If you can arrange for your MTA to both pipe the
-bounces mail to the wrapper for bounce processing and deliver it to
-owner, you can have both.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

End of Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 36, Issue 28
*********************************************

From matt at mail.netera.ca  Wed Feb 21 19:51:16 2007
From: matt at mail.netera.ca (Matthew Clarkson)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 11:51:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] retrieving usernames and passwords from mailman
Message-ID: <B7D2EFD0-6FA2-4449-87A2-233766AA993D@mail.netera.ca>

I'm building a simple document sharing application to run alongside  
mailman.  What I would like to do is use mailmans users/passwords for  
this application.
Ultimately what I would like to do is pull out all usernames &  
passwords and throw it all into a file for a given list.  Is this  
possible with a current command line program with mailman?

Thanks in advance
--
Matthew Clarkson
Netera Alliance

From rich at edj.net  Thu Feb 22 02:05:58 2007
From: rich at edj.net (Rich)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 18:05:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix mailman
Message-ID: <1172106358.27305.13.camel@localhost.localdomain>

I have a working postfix server on fc6. I just installed mailman on the
server and used webmin to setup a mailing list.
In /var/log/mailman/smtp-failure I see:

delivery to user at host failed with code -1:(111, Connection Refused)

I find this quite odd since I can send and receive email normally. Ideas
anyone?


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Thu Feb 22 04:02:37 2007
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 16:02:37 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving mailman lists
Message-ID: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A3701495E34@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Hi,

Quick Q,

We have an organisation wanting to use our mailman server, but they want
their own domain. Since mailman does not easily do multiple domains, in
the short term they will accept using our domain but later want to
extract their lists and run them under their own domain on their own
mailman server.

So, how easy would it be to "extract" all the setup info and move it to
the new server and convert it to a new list name and a new domain at a
later date?

Does this involve hacking by hand or would it be easy to automate? Is
there already such a tool?

Could the archived items be "cleansed" of the old domain and the new
domain be substituted? (this is probably a secondary requirement)...

Unless this is easy my preference is to let them wait until they get a
new server but they want something "now".

regards


Steven Jones
Senior  Linux/Unix/San System Administrator
APG -Technology Integration Team
Victoria University of Wellington

 

From cbraxton at iname.com  Thu Feb 22 05:23:44 2007
From: cbraxton at iname.com (Carter Braxton)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 23:23:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possible to forward bounces from mass invitation?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0702212320280.5040@mail.save-a-patriot.org>

I'm running mailman 2.1.5 on a Ubuntu 6.0.1 server, and am going to do
an initial mass invitation to the mailing list. Is there a way to have
any invitations that bounce be forwarded to the list owner? (If not the
bounces can always be culled from the postfix log, but it would be nice
if there were a way to have them forwarded automatically.) I didn't
see anything obvious in the bounce settings that would provide this
functionality.

--
   Carter Braxton

From rich at edj.net  Thu Feb 22 05:56:44 2007
From: rich at edj.net (Rich)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 21:56:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix virtual domain problem
Message-ID: <1172120204.27305.26.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Yes I have read the other threads and the setup procedure in the manual
and tried other suggested setups too. I see the list archives show up
yet no mail ever gets delivered. It always gets stopped on delivery.
In /var/log/mailman/smtp-failure I see:

delivery to user at host failed with code -1:(111, Connection Refused)

I find this quite odd since I can send and receive email normaly
internally and externally. I have disabled pop-before-smtp but it still
doesn't work. I'm on fc6 all files were installed from the standard
packages via yum(which I haven't seen anyone else complaining about).
Postfix config perhaps? Although since it works for everything else I
doubt it. Ideas anyone?



From kalin at el.net  Thu Feb 22 07:02:30 2007
From: kalin at el.net (kalin mintchev)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 01:02:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Your message was rejected?!?
Message-ID: <52336.68.165.89.71.1172124150.squirrel@mail.el.net>

hi all...

the email address the email is coming from is in the field:
"List of non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically
accepted."

i just get: Your message was rejected.  that's all. no explanation...
there is nothing in the logs. just rejected - that's it...

why?

thanks....


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Feb 22 15:43:55 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 08:43:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Your message was rejected?!?
In-Reply-To: <52336.68.165.89.71.1172124150.squirrel@mail.el.net>
References: <52336.68.165.89.71.1172124150.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00702220643n4b498b7dy17ba2b7561bcaac1@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/22/07, kalin mintchev <kalin at el.net> wrote:
> the email address the email is coming from is in the field:
> "List of non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically
> accepted."
>
> i just get: Your message was rejected.  that's all. no explanation...
> there is nothing in the logs. just rejected - that's it...

There should be something in the 'vette' log indicating why the
message was rejected. Some things to consider:

1) Are the logs you're looking at in the right place?
2) Is the rejection happening at the mailman level, or does your MTA
have some sort of spam prevention?

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Feb 22 15:52:52 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 08:52:52 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix virtual domain problem
In-Reply-To: <1172120204.27305.26.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1172120204.27305.26.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00702220652x2328b1c4r11b45d596de0a204@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/21/07, Rich <rich at edj.net> wrote:
> Yes I have read the other threads and the setup procedure in the manual
> and tried other suggested setups too. I see the list archives show up
> yet no mail ever gets delivered. It always gets stopped on delivery.
> In /var/log/mailman/smtp-failure I see:
>
> delivery to user at host failed with code -1:(111, Connection Refused)

This seems to indicate that mailman can't talk to the SMTP server that
it's supposed to used to send mail. What is the setting of
DELIVERY_MODULE? ('SMTPDirect' on my system). How about SMTPHOST? If
you haven't overwritten these in mm_cfg.py, the defaults of SMTPDirect
and '0' should be set, which means to use the default from Smtplib.

I believe this is going to be 'localhost'; if this isn't right for
your system, you need to set these things in mm_cfg.py.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Feb 22 15:57:52 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 08:57:52 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving mailman lists
In-Reply-To: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A3701495E34@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A3701495E34@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00702220657h405d1a55uff57facbaff71477@mail.gmail.com>

As far as I know, there's no 'one click' tool to move lists around,
nor is there anything that will rewrite archives to change the old
domain (that said, a simple sed script could do this, but possibly not
reliably).

See FAQ 3.4 <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.004.htp>

On 2/21/07, Steven Jones <Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Quick Q,
>
> We have an organisation wanting to use our mailman server, but they want
> their own domain. Since mailman does not easily do multiple domains, in
> the short term they will accept using our domain but later want to
> extract their lists and run them under their own domain on their own
> mailman server.
>
> So, how easy would it be to "extract" all the setup info and move it to
> the new server and convert it to a new list name and a new domain at a
> later date?
>
> Does this involve hacking by hand or would it be easy to automate? Is
> there already such a tool?
>
> Could the archived items be "cleansed" of the old domain and the new
> domain be substituted? (this is probably a secondary requirement)...
>
> Unless this is easy my preference is to let them wait until they get a
> new server but they want something "now".
>
> regards
>
>
> Steven Jones
> Senior  Linux/Unix/San System Administrator
> APG -Technology Integration Team
> Victoria University of Wellington
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pdbogen%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Feb 22 16:40:48 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 09:40:48 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Your message was rejected?!?
In-Reply-To: <00de01c75694$de630b90$9b2922b0$@com.tr>
References: <52336.68.165.89.71.1172124150.squirrel@mail.el.net>
	<6fbe3da00702220643n4b498b7dy17ba2b7561bcaac1@mail.gmail.com>
	<00de01c75694$de630b90$9b2922b0$@com.tr>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00702220740p622a455w1fb41e4a59843cf5@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/22/07, Baris Basar <baris at mobilnet.com.tr> wrote:
> I have posted an e-mail to a newly created list. And i want to look at list
> archieves. And i get this message. "No messages have been posted to this
> list yet, so the archives are currently empty." And i wanna ask , what is
> MTA?
The MTA is the piece of software responsible for actually delivering
mail (whether that's delivery to local accounts, forwarding it on to
mailman, or giving it to the MTA at another server). Postfix,
Sendmail, qmail, exim, etc.

Are you the person ('kalin mintchev') that posted the start of this thread?

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Thu Feb 22 17:50:01 2007
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 10:50:01 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Your message was rejected?!?
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00702220740p622a455w1fb41e4a59843cf5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52336.68.165.89.71.1172124150.squirrel@mail.el.net>
	<6fbe3da00702220643n4b498b7dy17ba2b7561bcaac1@mail.gmail.com>
	<00de01c75694$de630b90$9b2922b0$@com.tr>
	<6fbe3da00702220740p622a455w1fb41e4a59843cf5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.58.0702221047460.25727@albion.stonejongleux.com>

On Thu, 22 Feb 2007, Patrick Bogen wrote:

> On 2/22/07, Baris Basar <baris at mobilnet.com.tr> wrote:
> > I have posted an e-mail to a newly created list. And i want to look at list
> > archieves. And i get this message. "No messages have been posted to this
> > list yet, so the archives are currently empty." And i wanna ask , what is
> > MTA?
> The MTA is the piece of software responsible for actually delivering
> mail (whether that's delivery to local accounts, forwarding it on to
> mailman, or giving it to the MTA at another server). Postfix,
> Sendmail, qmail, exim, etc.

And if you're wondering what MTA stands for, it's Mail Transfer Agent.
Likewise, the e-mail client that use (be it Outlook, Eudora, Pine, a
web-mail client, any of the genericly named "Mail" programs, or anything
else) is an MUA or Mail User Agent.

-- Larry Stone
   lstone19 at stonejongleux.com

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb 22 18:20:49 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 09:20:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Your message was rejected?!?
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00702220740p622a455w1fb41e4a59843cf5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702220920490515bc35f594@msapiro>

>On 2/22/07, Baris Basar <baris at mobilnet.com.tr> wrote:
>> I have posted an e-mail to a newly created list. And i want to look at list
>> archieves. And i get this message. "No messages have been posted to this
>> list yet, so the archives are currently empty."

Is archiving turned on for the list?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb 22 19:13:41 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 10:13:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List not archiving (was: Your message was
	rejected?!?)
In-Reply-To: <00fe01c756a6$04ab6610$0e023230$@com.tr>
Message-ID: <PC17602007022210134109536ce6f242@msapiro>

Baris Basar wrote:

>Yes. It's on.

in response to:

>Is archiving turned on for the list?


Was the post delivered to list members? Is there anything in Mailman's
error log? Is ArchRunner Running?

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb 22 19:19:40 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 10:19:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix virtual domain problem
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00702220652x2328b1c4r11b45d596de0a204@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007022210194004216ce6f02d@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>On 2/21/07, Rich <rich at edj.net> wrote:

>> In /var/log/mailman/smtp-failure I see:
>>
>> delivery to user at host failed with code -1:(111, Connection Refused)
>
>This seems to indicate that mailman can't talk to the SMTP server that
>it's supposed to used to send mail. What is the setting of
>DELIVERY_MODULE? ('SMTPDirect' on my system). How about SMTPHOST? If
>you haven't overwritten these in mm_cfg.py, the defaults of SMTPDirect
>and '0' should be set, which means to use the default from Smtplib.
>
>I believe this is going to be 'localhost'; if this isn't right for
>your system, you need to set these things in mm_cfg.py.


As Patrick indicates, The default for the outgoing SMTP server is port
25 on 'localhost' which is refusing your connection. Is your outgoing
MTA listening on localhost (127.0.0.1) port 25?

Can you successfully 'telnet localhost 25' and get a response from your
MTA?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb 22 19:56:02 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 10:56:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Making all bounces, even temporary ones,
	go to list owner
In-Reply-To: <821AB4E5068CAB43A2539D4DD81F38E304F6304F@SAMFORDMAIL.ad.samford.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602007022210560205466ce6f084@msapiro>

Whitcomb, Jeff wrote:

>In response to Mark's email number 9 below.  I have always received
>delayed messages as a list owner, and did not know that I am not
>supposed to having the list configured as he mentions.


I am not trying to say how anyone is 'supposed' to have her or his list
set up in general. I was only trying to say how this one person's
lists could be set up so the owner could see every single bounce.


>The message I get is:
>
>"The attached message was received as a bounce, but either the bounce
>format was not recognized, or no member addresses could be extracted
>from it.  This mailing list has been configured to send all unrecognized
>bounce messages to the list administrator(s)."
>
>When I open the attachment, it has:
>
>
>"Your message has been delayed and is still awaiting delivery to the
>following recipient(s):
>
><email address>
>(Was addressed to <email address>)
>Message delayed
>
>
>Could not resolve mail server name because DNS server did not respond in
>time."
>
>
>The delayed message also has two attachments, one is an error status
>message that says:
>
>
>"Reporting-MTA: dns; mailrelay.<originating domain>
>Received-From-MTA: dns; server5.<originating domain> (unverified
>[xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx])
>Arrival-Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 15:44:47 -0600
>
>Final-Recipient: rfc822; <destination email address>
>Action: delayed
>Status: 0.0.0 (Unknown class - no additional status information
>available)"
>
>
>The other attachment appears to be the header of the original email.


The above information seems to indicate a RFC 1894/3464 compliant DSN
which should be recognized, but for some reason, is not. If it were
recognized properly, it would be ignored because "Action: delayed" is
informational and doesn't indicate delivery failure (yet).


>Before I went through and stripped out server addresses and put fake
>stuff in, I wanted to see what information I need to send where to
>determine if this is an unrecognized bounce format that needs to be
>added to MailMan, or if it might be something else?


The "Uncaught bounce notification" you receive has two MIME parts - the
boilerplate text you quote above and the attached message/rfc822 part
which is the message received by Mailman. I need to see this
message/rfc822 part in its entirety with all it's MIME headers intact.
I don't care if you mung email addresses, host names and IP addresses,
but I need the raw message. I also need to know which Mailman version
this is.

Then I can tell you if the bounce would be recognized by current
Mailman or not, and I would have what I need to add it to the
recognizer if possible.

You can sent the message to me off list if you wish. If you trust me to
preserve the confidentiality of your information, the easiest thing is
to just forward the "Uncaught bounce notification" as an attachment if
your MUA does that conveniently.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb 22 20:10:37 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:10:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] retrieving usernames and passwords from mailman
In-Reply-To: <B7D2EFD0-6FA2-4449-87A2-233766AA993D@mail.netera.ca>
Message-ID: <PC17602007022211103707186ce6f153@msapiro>

Matthew Clarkson wrote:

>I'm building a simple document sharing application to run alongside  
>mailman.  What I would like to do is use mailmans users/passwords for  
>this application.
>Ultimately what I would like to do is pull out all usernames &  
>passwords and throw it all into a file for a given list.  Is this  
>possible with a current command line program with mailman?


You could use a simple bin/withlist script such as

def get_passwords(mlist):
    for member in mlist.getMembers():
        print '%s - %s' % (member, mlist.getMemberPassword(member))

Save that as bin/get_passwords.py and run

 bin/withlist -r get_passwords listname > /path/to/password/list

Alternatively, you could just use bin/dumpdb to dump the list's
config.pck and extract the passwords information from the output.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb 22 20:37:18 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:37:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possible to forward bounces from mass
	invitation?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0702212320280.5040@mail.save-a-patriot.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602007022211371802346ce6ef5c@msapiro>

Carter Braxton wrote:

>I'm running mailman 2.1.5 on a Ubuntu 6.0.1 server, and am going to do
>an initial mass invitation to the mailing list. Is there a way to have
>any invitations that bounce be forwarded to the list owner? (If not the
>bounces can always be culled from the postfix log, but it would be nice
>if there were a way to have them forwarded automatically.) I didn't
>see anything obvious in the bounce settings that would provide this
>functionality.


Upon first glance, it would seem you might be able to do this by
setting all the bounce notifications On and setting
bounce_score_threshold to 1.0 before sending the invitations, but this
won't work because the received bounces (at least the recognized ones)
will be for addresses which aren't yet member addresses, so they will
be ignored.

I think you're stuck with MTA logs or with setting and alias like

listname-bounces: listname-owner

temporarily until the bounces have been received.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jfl1 at duke.edu  Thu Feb 22 22:46:16 2007
From: jfl1 at duke.edu (Jason Luck)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 16:46:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation and sent messages not reaching end-user
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0702221605410.11058@bmeiris.bme.duke.edu>


- Mailman 2.1.7
- RPM
- Redhat Fedora Linux version 2.6.15-1.2054_FC5
- Sendmail

Question: I'm setting up a Mailman system and have hit a roadblock that 
looks to deal with sending and receiving messages.

What I know: I've looked through the FAQ and specfically FAQ 3.14, and am 
able to get a number of the items requested, but don't know enough to be 
able to decipher what the outputs are saying.

I can seemingly create lists...both at the command prompt using newlist 
and through the web-interface, but do not receive any confirmation emails 
once those lists are created.  Additionally, I subscribed to one of the 
lists and tried to send a message to the list and did not receive the 
message.  Also, the archives do not show the message.

I've listed below a few of the responses from the outputs of the FAQ and 
can provide additional log file info if it will be helpful.

Thanks.

FAQ3.14


3) yes uses smrsh, 

grep "smrsh" sendmail.cf

output:
#####  $Id: smrsh.m4,v 8.14 1999/11/18 05:06:23 ca Exp $  #####
Mprog,          P=/usr/sbin/smrsh, F=lsDFMoqeu9, S=EnvFromL/HdrFromL, 
R=EnvToL/HdrToL, D=$z:/,
                A=smrsh -c $u

ls -l smrsh

output:
total 4lrwxrwxrwx 1 root mailman 29 Sep 16 05:18 mailman -> 
/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman

4) Interface
grep "Port" sendmail.cf
O DaemonPortOptions=Port=smtp,Addr=127.0.0.1, Name=MTA
#O ClientPortOptions=Family=inet, Address=0.0.0.0

netstat -na |grep ":25 "

output:
tcp        0      0 127.0.0.1:25                0.0.0.0:*                   
LISTEN      

a bit shady here...

/etc/hosts has nothing in it.

SMTPHOST...in mm_cfg.py...no info on
 DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
     MTA = 'Manual'
     SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
     SMTPPORT = 0               # default from smtplib
     SENDMAIL_CMD = '/usr/lib/sendmail'

5) qrunner is running

6) Locks

Can't find any locks folder under a mailman directory

7) Logs

more post

Feb 21 18:30:00 2007 (6645) post to test from mailman-owner at falconfootball.org, size=1492,
message-id=<mailman.0.1172099747.6557.test @falconfootball.org>, 1 failures

Feb 21 18:30:00 2007 (6645) post to test from mailman-owner at falconfootball.org, size=1845, 
message-id=<mailman.1.1172099747.6557.test at falconfootball.org>, 1 failures

Feb 21 18:30:01 2007 (6645) post to mailman from mailman-owner at falconfootball.org, size=1876, 
message-id=<mailman.0.1172100348.6610.mailman at falconfootball.org>, 1 failures

Feb 21 18:45:00 2007 (6645) post to test from mailman-owner at falconfootball.org, size=1492, 
message-id=<mailman.0.1172099747.6557.test at falconfootball.org>, 1 failures

Feb 21 18:45:00 2007 (6645) post to test from mailman-owner at falconfootball.org, size=1845, 
message-id=<mailman.1.1172099747.6557.test at falconfootball.org>, 1 failures

Feb 21 18:45:00 2007 (6645) post to mailman from mailman-owner at falconfootball.org, size=1876, 
message-id=<mailman.0.1172100348.6610.mailman at falconfootball.org>, 1 failures

Feb 21 18:58:02 2007 (6645) post to test from test-request at falconfootball.org, size=1636, 
message-id=<mailman.0.1172102281.6821.test at falconfootball.org>, 1 failures


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 23 00:32:39 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 15:32:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation and sent messages not reaching
	end-user
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0702221605410.11058@bmeiris.bme.duke.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702221532390453d98e4c2c@msapiro>

Jason Luck 
>
>SMTPHOST...in mm_cfg.py...no info on
> DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
>     MTA = 'Manual'
>     SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
>     SMTPPORT = 0               # default from smtplib
>     SENDMAIL_CMD = '/usr/lib/sendmail'


If the above are actually indented, this is bad. They shouldn't be.

Is this from mm_cfg.py or Defaults.py?


>6) Locks
>
>Can't find any locks folder under a mailman directory


It's somewhere? Is there a setting for LOCK_DIR in mm_cfg.py?


>7) Logs
>
>more post
>
>Feb 21 18:30:00 2007 (6645) post to test from mailman-owner at falconfootball.org, size=1492,
>message-id=<mailman.0.1172099747.6557.test @falconfootball.org>, 1 failures


And most important, what's in the smtp-failure log?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kelly.terry.jones at gmail.com  Fri Feb 23 02:43:28 2007
From: kelly.terry.jones at gmail.com (Kelly Jones)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 18:43:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Alternatives to having a list own itself
Message-ID: <26face530702221743vde4429ne43eca459d686290@mail.gmail.com>

I'm part of a group of people ("sysops") that own several
lists. Because the group changes occasionally, we've created a Mailman
list called "sysops at foo.com", and all of our lists are owned by
"sysops at foo.com". The sysops list also receives other
(non-Mailman-generated) emails.

We tried to make sysops owned by itself, but ran into problems: a
spammer emailed sysops, and the mail was held for moderation. However,
the "sysops post requires approval" message came from sysops-bounces
and went to sysops: Mailman apparently detected a loop and didn't
deliver the message (either that, or Mailman automatically rejects
emails that come from a list itself?)

To be honest, we didn't investigate too deeply: we know that the
sysops list works great for the most part, but doesn't work when we
make it own itself. We even tried cheating by using an alias: we had
"bar at foo.com" forward to "sysops at foo.com" and then made the list owned
by "bar at foo.com", but Mailman figured out our trickery and somehow
disallowed it.

My question: what's the best way to handle a situation like this? Have
a list owned by itself or "effectively" owned by itself. An obvious
hack is to run "list_members sysops" in a cron job and then dump the
results into the 'owner' field, but this seems ugly, especially if
you're using topics (at any given time, only a subset of sysops may
decide to receive "message pending approval" type messages).

Is this the Mailman version of Russell's paradox?

-- 
We're just a Bunch Of Regular Guys, a collective group that's trying
to understand and assimilate technology. We feel that resistance to
new ideas and technology is unwise and ultimately futile.

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 23 04:07:58 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 19:07:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Alternatives to having a list own itself
In-Reply-To: <26face530702221743vde4429ne43eca459d686290@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070222190758025041734cd4@msapiro>

Kelly Jones wrote:
>
>We tried to make sysops owned by itself, but ran into problems: a
>spammer emailed sysops, and the mail was held for moderation. However,
>the "sysops post requires approval" message came from sysops-bounces
>and went to sysops: Mailman apparently detected a loop and didn't
>deliver the message (either that, or Mailman automatically rejects
>emails that come from a list itself?)


Actually, I think that the message comes From: sysops-owner with an
envelope sender of mailman-bounces (or whatever the site list is).
This however is irrelevant. What happens is this notice is sent with a
header

X-BeenThere: sysops at ...

This header is detected when the message is received and processed for
the list, and the message is discarded.


>To be honest, we didn't investigate too deeply: we know that the
>sysops list works great for the most part, but doesn't work when we
>make it own itself. We even tried cheating by using an alias: we had
>"bar at foo.com" forward to "sysops at foo.com" and then made the list owned
>by "bar at foo.com", but Mailman figured out our trickery and somehow
>disallowed it.


Because you didn't remove the X-BeenThere: sysops at ... header.


>My question: what's the best way to handle a situation like this? Have
>a list owned by itself or "effectively" owned by itself. An obvious
>hack is to run "list_members sysops" in a cron job and then dump the
>results into the 'owner' field, but this seems ugly, especially if
>you're using topics (at any given time, only a subset of sysops may
>decide to receive "message pending approval" type messages).
>
>Is this the Mailman version of Russell's paradox?


I don't think so. I think your alias trick will work if you make
foo at example.com the owner and then process mail to foo at example.com by
stripping any X-BeenThere: headers before forwarding to sysops at ...

I haven't thought through the ramifications however. It's possible that
this could result in a real loop. As I say, I haven't thought it
through and it's possible that there are no loop scenarios, but I
won't guarantee it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 23 05:23:26 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 20:23:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List email domain versus archive / web admin
	domain.
In-Reply-To: <45D84342.2000609@blogometer.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070222202326078141734ec7@msapiro>

Alan Gutierrez wrote:
>
>I tried using mod_proxy, but that meant that the mailman CGI was unable 
>to determine the hostname, and therefore, did not provide for listings 
>of hosted lists in /mailman/listinfo


I really don't know what you're trying to do, but if you put

VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off

in mm_cfg.py, you'll see all your lists on the listinfo overview.


>Google recommends this solution:
>
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2003-January/025330.html
>
>Is this the preferred recipe?


For what? If I knew what you wanted to set up/accomplish, I might be
able to answer.


>Incidentally, the layout of this list...
>
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>mailman-users at python.org
>
>Would be okay. I'm wondering if it doesn't follow the recipe in the link 
>above.


No, I don't think it does. I think the python.org lists are just set up
with 

DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mail.python.org'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'python.org'

DNS has an MX record for python.org which points to mail.python.org and
Mailman, Mailman's MTA and Mailman's web server are all on
mail.python.org.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Feb 23 06:28:38 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 23:28:38 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Alternatives to having a list own itself
In-Reply-To: <26face530702221743vde4429ne43eca459d686290@mail.gmail.com>
References: <26face530702221743vde4429ne43eca459d686290@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240500c2042b985028@[10.0.1.102]>

At 6:43 PM -0700 2/22/07, Kelly Jones wrote:

>  My question: what's the best way to handle a situation like this? Have
>  a list owned by itself or "effectively" owned by itself.

What I've done in situations similar to this, is to make the 
listowner list itself owned by an alias that is directly resolvable 
out of /etc/aliases.  So, there is no loop -- owner mail for other 
lists goes to the listowner list, owner mail for the listowner list 
goes to the listmaster alias, and that's that.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From jfl1 at duke.edu  Fri Feb 23 14:46:22 2007
From: jfl1 at duke.edu (Jason Luck)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 08:46:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation and sent messages not reaching
 end-user
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200702221532390453d98e4c2c@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200702221532390453d98e4c2c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0702230822490.11535@bmeiris.bme.duke.edu>

> >SMTPHOST...in mm_cfg.py...no info on
> > DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
> >     MTA = 'Manual'
> >     SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
> >     SMTPPORT = 0               # default from smtplib
> >     SENDMAIL_CMD = '/usr/lib/sendmail'
> 
> 
> If the above are actually indented, this is bad. They shouldn't be.
> 
> Is this from mm_cfg.py or Defaults.py?

Actually the text listed above on SMTP which was in section 4 of 3.14 FAQ 
is not listed in my mm_cfg.py...not there at all.  Is this a problem?
 
> >6) Locks
> >
> >Can't find any locks folder under a mailman directory
> 
> 
> It's somewhere? Is there a setting for LOCK_DIR in mm_cfg.py?

There is no setting for LOCK_DIR in the mm_cfg.py.  I perform a locate on 
either LOCK or LOCK_DIR and the only LOCK I can find deal with items in an 
selinux area.

Within the Mailman directory there is a LockFile.py, LockFile.pyc and 
LockFile.pyo
 
> >7) Logs
> >
> >more post
> >
> >Feb 21 18:30:00 2007 (6645) post to test from mailman-owner at falconfootball.org, size=1492,
> >message-id=<mailman.0.1172099747.6557.test @falconfootball.org>, 1 failures
> 
> 
> And most important, what's in the smtp-failure log?

Here is what the smtp-failure log is saying...

more smtp-failure

Feb 21 18:30:00 2007 (6645) Low level smtp error: (-2, 'Name or service not known'), 
msgid: <mailman.0.1172099747.6557.test at falconfootball.org>

Feb 21 18:30:00 2007 (6645) delivery to mailman-owner at falconfootball.org failed with 
code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')

Feb 21 18:30:00 2007 (6645) Low level smtp error: (-2, 'Name or service not known'), 
msgid: <mailman.1.1172099747.6557.test at falconfootball.org>

Feb 21 18:30:00 2007 (6645) delivery to jfl1 at duke.edu failed with code -1: 
(-2, 'Name or service not known')

Feb 21 18:30:01 2007 (6645) Low level smtp error: (-2, 'Name or service not known'), 
msgid: <mailman.0.1172100348.6610.mailman at falconfootball.org>

Feb 21 18:30:01 2007 (6645) delivery to jfl1 at duke.edu failed with code -1: 
(-2, 'Name or service not known')

Feb 21 18:45:00 2007 (6645) Low level smtp error: (-2, 'Name or service not known'), 
msgid: <mailman.0.1172099747.6557.test at falconfootball.org>

Feb 21 18:45:00 2007 (6645) delivery to mailman-owner at falconfootball.org failed with 
code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')

Feb 21 18:45:00 2007 (6645) Low level smtp error: (-2, 'Name or service not known'), 
msgid: <mailman.1.1172099747.6557.test at falconfootball.org>

This goes on and on and on.

To recap...I've created two lists to-date.  mailman and test.  I have not 
received confirmation emails about starting either list.  Also, I joined 
the list *test* via the web-interface.  I have not as the administrator of 
this list been given a notification to approve my acceptance to the list 
via the admin pending area.  Also, I sent a message via my business email 
to the *test* list and have not received that message and the message is 
not showing up in the mailman provided *test* list archive.

As an aside...and I know this is a bit out-there, and I'm not looking for 
help on this through this group but will bring it up as it may have some 
connection.  I am also unable to view any usage statistics via webalizer 
either remotely or from the localhost.  I've checked all of the normal 
FAQ/info from lists on this and am continually getting the following. 
"Forbidden...You don't have permission to access /usage/ on this server. 
... Apache/2.2.0 (Fedora) Server at www.*****.org Port 80"

Now here is why I bring it up...about two years ago when I set both the 
site up and mailman lists I (a) had no problem with viewing the usage 
characteristics and (b) had no problem with confirmation emails (although 
I did have initial issues with remote users getting and receiving emails).  
That system went down due to a blown power supply and I've since been 
attempting to rebuild.  The new installation of Linux is as listed in the 
initial message and it is my understanding that SELINUX sometimes plays 
some tricks behind the scenes from a security perspective...could this be 
the root of both of my issues?  Just a thought to throw out there.

From jfl1 at duke.edu  Fri Feb 23 15:04:31 2007
From: jfl1 at duke.edu (Jason Luck)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 09:04:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation and sent messages not reaching
 end-user
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200702221532390453d98e4c2c@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200702221532390453d98e4c2c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0702230901210.11561@bmeiris.bme.duke.edu>

Also...I just found a discussion on the mailman archives of...

Low level smtp error.

I have a different error than this individual had, the error they 
listed was...

>an 16 17:12:32 2007 (9353) Low level smtp error: (111, 'Connection 
>refused'), msgid: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Jan 16 17:12:32 2007 (9353) Low level smtp error: please run connect() 
>first, msgid: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Jan 16 17:12:32 2007 (9353) delivery to [EMAIL PROTECTED] failed 
>with code -1: please run connect() first
>Jan 16 17:12:32 2007 (9353) delivery to [EMAIL PROTECTED] failed with 
>code -1: (111, 'Connection refused')

...and folks suggested trying 

telnet localhost 25

...from the mailman box.  I just tried that command from the mailman box 
and received the following...which I'm guessing is potentially a source of 
my problem.

localhost/25: Name or service not known



From jfl1 at duke.edu  Fri Feb 23 15:42:55 2007
From: jfl1 at duke.edu (Jason Luck)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 09:42:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation and sent messages not reaching
 end-user
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200702221532390453d98e4c2c@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200702221532390453d98e4c2c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0702230917220.11561@bmeiris.bme.duke.edu>

On Thu, 22 Feb 2007, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Jason Luck 
> >
> >SMTPHOST...in mm_cfg.py...no info on
> > DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
> >     MTA = 'Manual'
> >     SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
> >     SMTPPORT = 0               # default from smtplib
> >     SENDMAIL_CMD = '/usr/lib/sendmail'
> 
> 
> If the above are actually indented, this is bad. They shouldn't be.
> 
> Is this from mm_cfg.py or Defaults.py?
> 

A bit confused on this...as I mentioned earlier, this was not in the 
mm_cfg.py file, but in looking through the Defaults.py file I have the 
following.

DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
MTA = 'Manual'
SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
SMTPPORT = 0                                      # default from smtplib
SENDMAIL_CMD = '/usr/lib/sendmail'

I did notice in the Defaults.py file the following comment...

# SMTP host and port, when DELIVERY_MODULE is 'SMTPDirect'.  Make sure the
# host exists and is resolvable (i.e., if it's the default of "localhost" 
be
# sure there's a localhost entry in your /etc/hosts file!)

When I look in my /etc/hosts file...I have no entries.

So I just added...

127.0.0.1  localhost

...and restarted the network.



From jfl1 at duke.edu  Fri Feb 23 16:27:36 2007
From: jfl1 at duke.edu (Jason Luck)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 10:27:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation and sent messages not reaching
 end-user
In-Reply-To: <013e01c7575e$635c8aa0$2a159fe0$@com.tr>
References: <PC1760200702221532390453d98e4c2c@msapiro>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0702230917220.11561@bmeiris.bme.duke.edu>
	<013e01c7575e$635c8aa0$2a159fe0$@com.tr>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0702231025540.11597@bmeiris.bme.duke.edu>

In my set-up...mm_cfg.py is located...

/etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py
/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py

...and Defaults.py is located...

/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007, Baris Basar wrote:

> Can i ask you something? Where's mm_cfg.py??
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+baris=mobilnet.com.tr at python.org
> [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+baris=mobilnet.com.tr at python.org] On Behalf Of
> Jason Luck
> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 4:43 PM
> To: Mark Sapiro
> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation and sent messages not reaching
> end-user
> 
> On Thu, 22 Feb 2007, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> > Jason Luck 
> > >
> > >SMTPHOST...in mm_cfg.py...no info on
> > > DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
> > >     MTA = 'Manual'
> > >     SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
> > >     SMTPPORT = 0               # default from smtplib
> > >     SENDMAIL_CMD = '/usr/lib/sendmail'
> > 
> > 
> > If the above are actually indented, this is bad. They shouldn't be.
> > 
> > Is this from mm_cfg.py or Defaults.py?
> > 
> 
> A bit confused on this...as I mentioned earlier, this was not in the 
> mm_cfg.py file, but in looking through the Defaults.py file I have the 
> following.
> 
> DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
> MTA = 'Manual'
> SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
> SMTPPORT = 0                                      # default from smtplib
> SENDMAIL_CMD = '/usr/lib/sendmail'
> 
> I did notice in the Defaults.py file the following comment...
> 
> # SMTP host and port, when DELIVERY_MODULE is 'SMTPDirect'.  Make sure the
> # host exists and is resolvable (i.e., if it's the default of "localhost" 
> be
> # sure there's a localhost entry in your /etc/hosts file!)
> 
> When I look in my /etc/hosts file...I have no entries.
> 
> So I just added...
> 
> 127.0.0.1  localhost
> 
> ...and restarted the network.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/baris%40mobilnet.com.tr
> 
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> 
> 

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 23 16:36:10 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 07:36:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation and sent messages not
	reachingend-user
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0702230822490.11535@bmeiris.bme.duke.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020070223073610068724e8ff39@msapiro>

Jason Luck wrote:

>> >SMTPHOST...in mm_cfg.py...no info on
>> > DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
>> >     MTA = 'Manual'
>> >     SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
>> >     SMTPPORT = 0               # default from smtplib
>> >     SENDMAIL_CMD = '/usr/lib/sendmail'
>> 
>> 
>> If the above are actually indented, this is bad. They shouldn't be.
>> 
>> Is this from mm_cfg.py or Defaults.py?
>
>Actually the text listed above on SMTP which was in section 4 of 3.14 FAQ 
>is not listed in my mm_cfg.py...not there at all.  Is this a problem?


No. That bit in the FAQ is just a listing of the defaults from
Defaults.py and these should be OK.

 
>> >6) Locks
>> >
>> >Can't find any locks folder under a mailman directory
>> 
>> 
>> It's somewhere? Is there a setting for LOCK_DIR in mm_cfg.py?
>
>There is no setting for LOCK_DIR in the mm_cfg.py.  I perform a locate on 
>either LOCK or LOCK_DIR and the only LOCK I can find deal with items in an 
>selinux area.


LOCK_DIR is not a directory, it is a Python name set in Defaults.py and
possibly overridden in mm_cfg.py. Thus, you won't find it with locate,
but you might find it with grep.

If this is a RedHat FHS compliant installation, you will probably find
them in /var/locks/, but if you check the setting for LOCK_DIR in
Defaults.py (since it isn't in mm_cfg.py) you should find it. See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2004-October/017343.html>
for more on RedHat FHS.


>Within the Mailman directory there is a LockFile.py, LockFile.pyc and 
>LockFile.pyo


This is the Mailman module that deals with locking and locks. It is not
the locks themselves, but locks aren't your problem anyway.


>Here is what the smtp-failure log is saying...
>
>more smtp-failure
>
>Feb 21 18:30:00 2007 (6645) Low level smtp error: (-2, 'Name or service not known'), 
>msgid: <mailman.0.1172099747.6557.test at falconfootball.org>

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.014.htp>
and
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.073.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 23 16:39:11 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 07:39:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation and sent messages not
	reachingend-user
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0702230901210.11561@bmeiris.bme.duke.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702230739110500dab4f59f@msapiro>

Jason Luck wrote:

>Also...I just found a discussion on the mailman archives of...
>
>Low level smtp error.


And I wonder why you didn't find FAQ 6.14 which addresses your problem
specifically.


>telnet localhost 25
>
>...from the mailman box.  I just tried that command from the mailman box 
>and received the following...which I'm guessing is potentially a source of 
>my problem.
>
>localhost/25: Name or service not known


Yes, it is the problem. You can't resolve the name 'localhost'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 23 16:41:41 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 07:41:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation and sent messages not
	reachingend-user
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0702230917220.11561@bmeiris.bme.duke.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702230741410531a38667bc@msapiro>

Jason Luck wrote:

>When I look in my /etc/hosts file...I have no entries.
>
>So I just added...
>
>127.0.0.1  localhost
>
>...and restarted the network.


That should help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 23 16:52:17 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 07:52:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation and sent messages not reaching
	end-user
In-Reply-To: <013f01c7575f$cb5d56b0$62180410$@com.tr>
Message-ID: <PC17602007022307521700005c5055d1@msapiro>

Baris Basar wrote:

>I'm using xp pro op. Sys. 


Are you running Mailman on this? If so, and if you have anything to add
to
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq05.002.htp>,
let us know.



Jason Luck wrote:
>
>In my set-up...mm_cfg.py is located...
>
>/etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py
>/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
>
>...and Defaults.py is located...
>
>/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py


And in general, mm_cfg.py and Defaults.py are located with all the
other Mailman modules in the Mailman/ directory in the Mailman
installation, wherever that is.

And in RedHat FHS Mailman, /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py is a symlink to
usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jfl1 at duke.edu  Fri Feb 23 16:58:42 2007
From: jfl1 at duke.edu (Jason Luck)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 10:58:42 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation and sent messages not
	reachingend-user
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200702230739110500dab4f59f@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200702230739110500dab4f59f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0702231056400.11616@bmeiris.bme.duke.edu>

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Jason Luck wrote:
> 
> >Also...I just found a discussion on the mailman archives of...
> >
> >Low level smtp error.
> 
> 
> And I wonder why you didn't find FAQ 6.14 which addresses your problem
> specifically.

I didn't know enough to look into the specific log files that gave me the 
information until I had started this thread.  6.14 looks helpful.  But I 
looked in resolv.conf and have the following:

; generated by /sbin/dhclient-script
search localdomain
nameserver 24.25.5.60
nameserver 24.25.5.61

...the nameserver info is for my domain...is the search localdomain the 
issue?


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 23 17:21:06 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 08:21:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation and sent messages not
	reachingend-user
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0702231056400.11616@bmeiris.bme.duke.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702230821060531a3866799@msapiro>

Jason Luck wrote:
>
>I didn't know enough to look into the specific log files that gave me the 
>information until I had started this thread.  6.14 looks helpful.  But I 
>looked in resolv.conf and have the following:
>
>; generated by /sbin/dhclient-script
>search localdomain
>nameserver 24.25.5.60
>nameserver 24.25.5.61
>
>...the nameserver info is for my domain...is the search localdomain the 
>issue?


I think the issue was the lack of a 'localhost' entry in /etc/hosts.
When you added that, did anything change? Can you now 'telnet
localhost 25'?

If Mailman still can't send, have the log messages changed in
smtp-failure?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From starrm at putzam.com  Fri Feb 23 18:17:05 2007
From: starrm at putzam.com (Mike Starr)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 11:17:05 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto-reject non-member messages?
Message-ID: <s5decd41.081@mail.putzam.com>

I just took over administering a list and get a few spam messages to the
list from non-members. I looked at the available information and
couldn't figure out how to set the list admin controls to automatically
reject any message to the list from a non-member. We're a small group
with a tightly controlled membership so it won't be a problem to just
blanket reject messages from non-subscribers. Thanks for your help.

Mike

--
Mike Starr
Technical writer

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 23 18:47:32 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 09:47:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto-reject non-member messages?
In-Reply-To: <s5decd41.081@mail.putzam.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007022309473201562911cdbc@msapiro>

Mike Starr wrote:

>I just took over administering a list and get a few spam messages to the
>list from non-members. I looked at the available information and
>couldn't figure out how to set the list admin controls to automatically
>reject any message to the list from a non-member. We're a small group
>with a tightly controlled membership so it won't be a problem to just
>blanket reject messages from non-subscribers. Thanks for your help.


Privacy options...->Sender filters->generic_nonmember_action

Discard is better than Reject unless you feel you might receive
non-member posts for which it is important to respond in some way,
i.e. some legitimate request from a non-member who would assume the
request was received in the absence of a negative reply.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 23 18:48:26 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 11:48:26 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto-reject non-member messages?
In-Reply-To: <s5decd41.081@mail.putzam.com>
References: <s5decd41.081@mail.putzam.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00702230948r76074c74s25fcbe96ce1bfc29@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/23/07, Mike Starr <starrm at putzam.com> wrote:
> I just took over administering a list and get a few spam messages to the
> list from non-members. I looked at the available information and
> couldn't figure out how to set the list admin controls to automatically
> reject any message to the list from a non-member. We're a small group
> with a tightly controlled membership so it won't be a problem to just
> blanket reject messages from non-subscribers. Thanks for your help.

Set generic_nonmember_action on Admin -> Privacy Options -> Sender
Filters to 'reject' or 'discard'.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From rmrainey at earthlink.net  Fri Feb 23 20:21:29 2007
From: rmrainey at earthlink.net (Michael Rainey)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 12:21:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message delivered to list but altered for some
Message-ID: <45DF3EB9.3070801@earthlink.net>


A message is delivered to all list members, but some members get full 
message, while some a very abbreviated message with much of message not  
included.  (There are many links in message but this has not been an 
issue previously.) I cannot now ascertain how many recipients fall into 
each category. I assume those who get only part of message may have 
something in common on their end, but it seems to be a quite significant 
number and I cannot identify.

Is there anything on my admin or server settings I should be looking for?

I am sure I read this before in list but cannot find in archives, must 
not be using correct search terms.

Thank you.

Michael

From vancleef at lostwells.net  Fri Feb 23 20:52:07 2007
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (vancleef at lostwells.net)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 12:52:07 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list member address change by moderator
Message-ID: <200702231952.l1NJq7NK021781@julie.lostwells.net>

Is there a mechanism for a list administrator to change a list member
address without going through the confirmation dialog.

I've got a case where listmember at bellyup.com wants to become
listmember at newisp.com.  While the confirmation goes to newisp.com
and requires the listmember response, I'd prefer to have a "just do it
now" administrator method.  Is there one?

Hank

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 23 20:53:58 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 11:53:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto-reject non-member messages?
In-Reply-To: <s5dedb26.070@mail.putzam.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007022311535803907df58360@msapiro>

Mike Starr wrote:

>Thanks so much for the help; I've set it to Reject for the moment. Could
>you expand on why Discard might be better? Are there spam issues with
>the concept of sending a rejection email?


Yes. I send spam to your list spoofing joe at example.com as the sender.
You send a reject message to joe at example.com which has my original
spam attached. Poor joe receives my spam from you - not a good thing.

Mailman 2.1.10 will have the ability to not include the original
message in the rejection notice which will help, but currently it is
included.

So if the messages are just spam, it is better to discard them.

OTOH, if there might be an occasional legitimate message from say a
member posting from the wrong address or a non-member legitimately
trying to reach the list, and you want to respond to these messages,
then choose reject.

The best practice is to filter spam ahead of Mailman so as little spam
as possible even gets to Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 23 22:50:20 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 13:50:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list member address change by moderator
In-Reply-To: <200702231952.l1NJq7NK021781@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702231350200437e1ba1049@msapiro>

vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:

>Is there a mechanism for a list administrator to change a list member
>address without going through the confirmation dialog.

You can do it with a withlist script. In fact, I just wrote one. See
<http://veenet.value.net/~msapiro/scripts/> or
<http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 23 22:56:34 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 13:56:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message delivered to list but altered for some
In-Reply-To: <45DF3EB9.3070801@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <PC176020070223135634029670a46eea@msapiro>

Michael Rainey wrote:

>
>A message is delivered to all list members, but some members get full 
>message, while some a very abbreviated message with much of message not  
>included.  (There are many links in message but this has not been an 
>issue previously.) I cannot now ascertain how many recipients fall into 
>each category. I assume those who get only part of message may have 
>something in common on their end, but it seems to be a quite significant 
>number and I cannot identify.
>
>Is there anything on my admin or server settings I should be looking for?


It's hard to even guess what's going on without seeing the raw message
as received from the list.

Possibly there is something broken in the MIME structure of the message
either as sent to Mailman or broken by Mailman, but without the raw
message, I can't even guess.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 23 22:59:09 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 13:59:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list member address change by moderator
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200702231350200437e1ba1049@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702231359090718658b8a77@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:
>
>>Is there a mechanism for a list administrator to change a list member
>>address without going through the confirmation dialog.
>
>You can do it with a withlist script. In fact, I just wrote one. See
><http://veenet.value.net/~msapiro/scripts/> or
><http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/>.


I neglected to say, but there is no way to do this via the web
interface.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Fri Feb 23 23:25:09 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 14:25:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list member address change by moderator
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200702231359090718658b8a77@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200702231350200437e1ba1049@msapiro>
	<PC1760200702231359090718658b8a77@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200702232225.l1NMP9CG003462@unreal.eroded.org>

Mark Sapiro sent the message below at 13:59 2/23/2007:
>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
> >vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:
> >
> >>Is there a mechanism for a list administrator to change a list member
> >>address without going through the confirmation dialog.
> >
> >You can do it with a withlist script. In fact, I just wrote one. See
> ><http://veenet.value.net/~msapiro/scripts/> or
> ><http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/>.
>
>
>I neglected to say, but there is no way to do this via the web
>interface.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Just to add my two cents...

It would be a very desirable feature in the web interface.

The only other option as of now is to unsubscribe the user and then 
re-subscribe him or her via the mass subscription interface. The big 
problem with that approach is that it sets all user settings (digest, 
mail delivery, etc.) to the list defaults.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From jfl1 at duke.edu  Sat Feb 24 02:34:00 2007
From: jfl1 at duke.edu (Jason Luck)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 20:34:00 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation and sent messages not
	reachingend-user
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200702230821060531a3866799@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200702230821060531a3866799@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0702231126520.11638@bmeiris.bme.duke.edu>

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Jason Luck wrote:
> >
> >I didn't know enough to look into the specific log files that gave me the 
> >information until I had started this thread.  6.14 looks helpful.  But I 
> >looked in resolv.conf and have the following:
> >
> >; generated by /sbin/dhclient-script
> >search localdomain
> >nameserver 24.25.5.60
> >nameserver 24.25.5.61
> >
> >...the nameserver info is for my domain...is the search localdomain the 
> >issue?
> 
> 
> I think the issue was the lack of a 'localhost' entry in /etc/hosts.
> When you added that, did anything change? Can you now 'telnet
> localhost 25'?

yes. I can telnet to localhost 25.

> 
> If Mailman still can't send, have the log messages changed in
> smtp-failure?
> 

I just checked my mail and both confirmations, one for the mailman list 
and one for the test list have hit my external business mailbox.  Also, 
the subscription request for the test list has also hit my mailbox.

6.14 has seemingly helped out a bit.  I've changed a few things and to be 
honest am not completely sure at what time things started flowing.

I used python for the first time...and did the following and got the 
following result

>>> import smtplib
 >>> connection = smtplib.SMTP()
 Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.4/smtplib.py", line 255, in __init__
    addr = socket.gethostbyname(socket.gethostname()) 
 socket.gaierror: (-2, 'Name or service not known')
 >>>

I suppose no surprise...I then checked the resolv.conf and that was the 
previous message.

Then I did the following per  6.14...

>>> import socket
 >>> x = socket.gethostname()
 >>> print x
 (response)
 >>> y = socket.gethostbyname(x)
 >>> print y
 (response)
 >>> 

...In my reponses, for x I obtained what I had been locally calling my 
machine, but not what my static IP is known as to the outside world.  When 
I attempted the *y=* line I received no response.  After making the 
appropriate hostname changes the above python routine connected the IP to 
the name of the machine.

Another problem though...it looks like I am...
(a) able to create lists
(b) receive notification emails about the creation of lists
(c) able to subscribe to lists
(d) receive notification about subscribing to a lists

...but...I'm not able to...

(a) receive any email when posted to a list I'm subscribed to.
(b) and there is not record in the archives of these messages.
(c) I've checked the following logs...maillog, smtp, smtp-failure and they 
are not posting anything.

It seems as though the messages may have left my external email, but never 
reached my local MTA or mailman?

Listed below is a message I received from my business email side...

The original message was received at Fri, 23 Feb 2007 12:34:05 -0500
from localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
<test at falconfootball.org>... Deferred: Connection refused by
falconfootball.org.
Warning: message still undelivered after 4 hours
Will keep trying until message is 5 days old

    [ Part 2: "Delivery Status" ]

Reporting-MTA: dns; [business email]
Arrival-Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 12:34:05 -0500

Final-Recipient: RFC822; test at falconfootball.org
Action: delayed
Status: 4.4.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; falconfootball.org
Last-Attempt-Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 16:35:54 -0500

Any ideas...I've looked through all of the titles on the FAQs and don't 
see anything about not receiving emails and also not having anything in 
the log files.  Also, per the initial messages that started this 
discussion, I've run through all of the 3.14 FAQs and all seems to be 
working as best as I can decipher working means by the info in the FAQ.

Thanks.


> 

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Feb 24 02:55:29 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 17:55:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation and sent messages not
	reachingend-user
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0702231126520.11638@bmeiris.bme.duke.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702231755290187ae124c58@msapiro>

Jason Luck wrote:
>
>...but...I'm not able to...
>
>(a) receive any email when posted to a list I'm subscribed to.
>(b) and there is not record in the archives of these messages.
>(c) I've checked the following logs...maillog, smtp, smtp-failure and they 
>are not posting anything.
>
>It seems as though the messages may have left my external email, but never 
>reached my local MTA or mailman?


That's right. The delay notice below says it was unable to connect to
an SMTP server at falconfootball.org. Is your MTA at
falconfootball.org listening for connects on port 25 from the outside?


>Listed below is a message I received from my business email side...
>
>The original message was received at Fri, 23 Feb 2007 12:34:05 -0500
>from localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]
>
>   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
><test at falconfootball.org>... Deferred: Connection refused by
>falconfootball.org.
>Warning: message still undelivered after 4 hours
>Will keep trying until message is 5 days old
<snip>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jfl1 at duke.edu  Sat Feb 24 03:11:31 2007
From: jfl1 at duke.edu (Jason Luck)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 21:11:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation and sent messages not
	reachingend-user
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200702231755290187ae124c58@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200702231755290187ae124c58@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0702232108460.12101@bmeiris.bme.duke.edu>

> That's right. The delay notice below says it was unable to connect to
> an SMTP server at falconfootball.org. Is your MTA at
> falconfootball.org listening for connects on port 25 from the outside?

grep "Port" sendmail.cf

O DaemonPortOptions=Port=smtp,Addr=127.0.0.1, Name=MTA
#O ClientPortOptions=Family=inet, Address=0.0.0.0

netstat -na |grep ":25 "

tcp        0      0 127.0.0.1:25                0.0.0.0:*                   
LISTEN

and in the etc/hosts file

IPAddress       Hosts           Alias
127.0.0.1       localhost
[##.###.##.##]    falconfootball.org


> 
> 
> >Listed below is a message I received from my business email side...
> >
> >The original message was received at Fri, 23 Feb 2007 12:34:05 -0500
> >from localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]
> >
> >   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> ><test at falconfootball.org>... Deferred: Connection refused by
> >falconfootball.org.
> >Warning: message still undelivered after 4 hours
> >Will keep trying until message is 5 days old
> <snip>
> 
> 

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Feb 24 03:31:46 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 18:31:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation and sent messages not
	reachingend-user
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0702232108460.12101@bmeiris.bme.duke.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020070223183146065619aa3c7e@msapiro>

Jason Luck wrote:
>
>grep "Port" sendmail.cf
>
>O DaemonPortOptions=Port=smtp,Addr=127.0.0.1, Name=MTA
>#O ClientPortOptions=Family=inet, Address=0.0.0.0



I don't know sendmail configuration, but it seems you've only told it
to listen on the local loopback port 127.0.0.1


>netstat -na |grep ":25 "
>
>tcp        0      0 127.0.0.1:25                0.0.0.0:*                   
>LISTEN


And netstat confirms that. You should also see something like

tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:25                0.0.0.0:*    LISTEN

You should be able to telnet to port 25 of this host from outside. You
can't (or at least I can't - I get a refusal to my connect
negotiation).


>and in the etc/hosts file
>
>IPAddress       Hosts           Alias
>127.0.0.1       localhost
>[##.###.##.##]    falconfootball.org

Not relevant. This only directs connects to falconfootball.org
from this machine to the given IP address. It has no effect on what's
listening on this machine for connects from the outside.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jfl1 at duke.edu  Sat Feb 24 03:45:19 2007
From: jfl1 at duke.edu (Jason Luck)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 21:45:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation and sent messages not
	reachingend-user
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070223183146065619aa3c7e@msapiro>
References: <PC176020070223183146065619aa3c7e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0702232144230.12117@bmeiris.bme.duke.edu>

Thanks for the response, unfortunately my limited knowledge on these 
matters leaves me at a dead end.  Not sure how to change any of these 
items or where to go from here.

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Jason Luck wrote:
> >
> >grep "Port" sendmail.cf
> >
> >O DaemonPortOptions=Port=smtp,Addr=127.0.0.1, Name=MTA
> >#O ClientPortOptions=Family=inet, Address=0.0.0.0
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know sendmail configuration, but it seems you've only told it
> to listen on the local loopback port 127.0.0.1
> 
> 
> >netstat -na |grep ":25 "
> >
> >tcp        0      0 127.0.0.1:25                0.0.0.0:*                   
> >LISTEN
> 
> 
> And netstat confirms that. You should also see something like
> 
> tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:25                0.0.0.0:*    LISTEN
> 
> You should be able to telnet to port 25 of this host from outside. You
> can't (or at least I can't - I get a refusal to my connect
> negotiation).
> 
> 
> >and in the etc/hosts file
> >
> >IPAddress       Hosts           Alias
> >127.0.0.1       localhost
> >[##.###.##.##]    falconfootball.org
> 
> Not relevant. This only directs connects to falconfootball.org
> from this machine to the given IP address. It has no effect on what's
> listening on this machine for connects from the outside.
> 
> 

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Feb 24 03:59:48 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 18:59:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation and sent messages not
	reachingend-user
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0702232144230.12117@bmeiris.bme.duke.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602007022318594808593548e48b@msapiro>

Jason Luck wrote:

>Thanks for the response, unfortunately my limited knowledge on these 
>matters leaves me at a dead end.  Not sure how to change any of these 
>items or where to go from here.


You fix it in your sendmail configuration by telling sendmail to listen
for port 25 connects from anywhere. I can't tell you how to do that
because I don't know.

Perhaps you can read some sendmail documentation or ask on a sendmail
list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Feb 24 06:30:00 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 23:30:00 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto-reject non-member messages?
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007022309473201562911cdbc@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007022309473201562911cdbc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240501c2057d727ec5@[10.0.1.102]>

At 9:47 AM -0800 2/23/07, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  Discard is better than Reject unless you feel you might receive
>  non-member posts for which it is important to respond in some way,
>  i.e. some legitimate request from a non-member who would assume the
>  request was received in the absence of a negative reply.

Whereas I would turn that around and say that Reject is better than 
Discard, because it's generally better to notify legitimate senders 
that their post was rejected as opposed to simply throwing it away 
silently.

Of course, this method can lend itself to certain other types of 
abuses (e.g., Joe Jobs), although Mailman does work hard to try to 
mitigate those.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Feb 24 06:32:34 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 23:32:34 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto-reject non-member messages?
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007022311535803907df58360@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007022311535803907df58360@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240502c2057e04a113@[10.0.1.102]>

At 11:53 AM -0800 2/23/07, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  Yes. I send spam to your list spoofing joe at example.com as the sender.
>  You send a reject message to joe at example.com which has my original
>  spam attached. Poor joe receives my spam from you - not a good thing.

Yes, but Mailman will only send one rejection notice per day to a 
given sender, regardless of how many messages were originally 
submitted to Mailman.  So, while Mailman can be used to help Joe Job 
someone, it cannot be used as a Joe Job amplifier.

This is why I say that it's better to Reject as opposed to Discard.

>  The best practice is to filter spam ahead of Mailman so as little spam
>  as possible even gets to Mailman.

Agreed.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From vancleef at lostwells.net  Sat Feb 24 07:31:42 2007
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (vancleef at lostwells.net)
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 23:31:42 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation and sent messages not
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007022318594808593548e48b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200702240631.l1O6VgAK008593@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed Mark Sapiro has said:
> 
> Jason Luck wrote:
> 
> >Thanks for the response, unfortunately my limited knowledge on these 
> >matters leaves me at a dead end.  Not sure how to change any of these 
> >items or where to go from here.
> 
> 
> You fix it in your sendmail configuration by telling sendmail to listen
> for port 25 connects from anywhere. I can't tell you how to do that
> because I don't know.
> 
> Perhaps you can read some sendmail documentation or ask on a sendmail
> list.
> 
I'll chime in with some quick observations (I run sendmail 8.13.8 on
Solaris 9).  

The two first places I'd look are:

1.  The tcp-ip services file (/etc/inet/services on Solaris) needs a
line that says:
smtp     25/tcp      mail

2.  There needs to be a sendmail -bd daemon running.  That is the one
that listens for incoming smtp. 

I don't see anything specific to port 25 in the .cf files.  

I would also check any router/firewall between your sendmail client
machine to make sure that incoming port 25 traffic is not being
blocked; also any ipfilter setup.  

Hank

From jfl1 at duke.edu  Sat Feb 24 07:44:13 2007
From: jfl1 at duke.edu (Jason Luck)
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 01:44:13 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation and sent messages not
In-Reply-To: <200702240631.l1O6VgAK008593@julie.lostwells.net>
References: <200702240631.l1O6VgAK008593@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0702240136060.12241@bmeiris.bme.duke.edu>

On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:

> The esteemed Mark Sapiro has said:
> > 
> > Jason Luck wrote:
> > 
> > >Thanks for the response, unfortunately my limited knowledge on these 
> > >matters leaves me at a dead end.  Not sure how to change any of these 
> > >items or where to go from here.
> > 
> > 
> > You fix it in your sendmail configuration by telling sendmail to listen
> > for port 25 connects from anywhere. I can't tell you how to do that
> > because I don't know.
> > 
> > Perhaps you can read some sendmail documentation or ask on a sendmail
> > list.
> > 
> I'll chime in with some quick observations (I run sendmail 8.13.8 on
> Solaris 9).  
> 
> The two first places I'd look are:
> 
> 1.  The tcp-ip services file (/etc/inet/services on Solaris) needs a
> line that says:
> smtp     25/tcp      mail
> 
> 2.  There needs to be a sendmail -bd daemon running.  That is the one
> that listens for incoming smtp. 
> 
> I don't see anything specific to port 25 in the .cf files.  
> 
> I would also check any router/firewall between your sendmail client
> machine to make sure that incoming port 25 traffic is not being
> blocked; also any ipfilter setup.  
> 
> Hank
> 

Looks like I have it up and working.  Just received one of my first test
messages all the way through.  I think there were a number of things
wrong, not the least of which was that I had the DaemonPortOptions set for
the loopback and so it was in no way looking for external mail as I
understand it now.  I made the changes listed in some sendmail lists and
although the changes took affect seemingly in the files based on time
stamp changes when I ran netstat I saw no difference in what sendmail was
listening to.  I did all of the restarts on the networking and mailman but
it didn't seem like it was working.

So...I did a full shutdown and restart of the entire system.

And...all is working seemingly.  In fact as I type this message it looks 
like two test messages from earlier today have just hit.

Why is the default in DaemonPortOptions set for 127.0.0.1 as opposed to a 
broader range?  It would seem most folks would want to be able to external 
mail through their box and from what I'm learning would require the 
127.0.0.1 to be changed.  Also by changing this...does one open themselve 
up to security issues?

Mark and Hank, thanks for all of the help!  

From barry at python.org  Sat Feb 24 17:10:22 2007
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 10:10:22 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list member address change by moderator
In-Reply-To: <200702232225.l1NMP9CG003462@unreal.eroded.org>
References: <PC1760200702231350200437e1ba1049@msapiro>
	<PC1760200702231359090718658b8a77@msapiro>
	<200702232225.l1NMP9CG003462@unreal.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <76E3D969-3C0F-4F80-822F-5076483C7509@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Feb 23, 2007, at 4:25 PM, Dragon wrote:

> Just to add my two cents...
>
> It would be a very desirable feature in the web interface.

I totally agree.  We'll get this into the next version.  Generally I  
only do this in response to a user request so I /want/ them to do the  
confirmation dance.  Still, I recognize this as an important use case.

(I tried to update the wiki, but I don't have access to my password  
while here at the Python conference and Firefox doesn't remember the  
right one ;).

- -Barry

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin)

iQCVAwUBReBjb3EjvBPtnXfVAQLfvQQAnOZzztO+/IRR05YKoU7Qfg43lDWkBlqd
9FIRQNtTmEY3VvOeD1emli4cAVFGemym6e+M0mjF3HvtAPquVY5MVLAZ/TZB9kBO
Se67R3AfvT+OMhV0G+bs18A6V3EEAY2P3TTvK9Tji6ZgT/HhJW7pMo1+GYGcj3mL
OFKf1q99hfI=
=XIsx
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Feb 24 17:43:47 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 08:43:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation and sent messages not
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0702240136060.12241@bmeiris.bme.duke.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020070224084347068774f31dbe@msapiro>

Jason Luck wrote:
>
>Why is the default in DaemonPortOptions set for 127.0.0.1 as opposed to a 
>broader range?  It would seem most folks would want to be able to external 
>mail through their box and from what I'm learning would require the 
>127.0.0.1 to be changed.  Also by changing this...does one open themselve 
>up to security issues?


These are good questions, but they are Sendmail questions. There are
whole books (e.g. the 'bat' book) devoted to Sendmail, and I haven't
read any of them.

The important thing is to not be an open relay - i.e. only accept mail
from outside for local delivery; do not accept mail from outside to be
relayed to another outside location; only accept 'outside delivery'
mail from the localhost.

I would think that the default Sendmail configuration would not be an
open relay, but I don't know. There are various services, e.g.,
<http://www.abuse.net/relay.html>, that will test to see if your
server is an open relay.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From vancleef at lostwells.net  Mon Feb 26 05:37:43 2007
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (vancleef at lostwells.net)
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 21:37:43 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation and sent messages not
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070224084347068774f31dbe@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200702260437.l1Q4biQj013545@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed Mark Sapiro has said:
> 
> Jason Luck wrote:
> >
> >Why is the default in DaemonPortOptions set for 127.0.0.1 as opposed to a 
> >broader range?  It would seem most folks would want to be able to external 
> >mail through their box and from what I'm learning would require the 
> >127.0.0.1 to be changed.  Also by changing this...does one open themselve 
> >up to security issues?
> 
> 
> These are good questions, but they are Sendmail questions. There are
> whole books (e.g. the 'bat' book) devoted to Sendmail, and I haven't
> read any of them.
> 
> The important thing is to not be an open relay - i.e. only accept mail
> from outside for local delivery; do not accept mail from outside to be
> relayed to another outside location; only accept 'outside delivery'
> mail from the localhost.
> 
> I would think that the default Sendmail configuration would not be an
> open relay, but I don't know. There are various services, e.g.,
> <http://www.abuse.net/relay.html>, that will test to see if your
> server is an open relay.
> 
Speaking from the vantage point of a sendmail user, I think virtually
all of the issues involving sendmail+Mailman are basic sendmail
configuration issues.  

In short, that means that if sendmail+Mailman are not working
properly, odds are that sendmail is not working properly with a simple
MUA like elm or mutt.  Test your configuration for both incoming mail
from the Internet backbone and outgoing mail to it.   If your Mailman
installation is going to take mail to listname at domain.com, then set up
a local user account as username at domain.com and use it to check out
your sendmail installation.  

Once you have your sendmail working properly, Mailman is a very simple
drop-in.  The defaults in the distribution Defaults.py are correct for
a simple sendmail configuration; you don't have to override anything
in mm_cfg.py.  

One step that you do have to perform, that I do not see in Barry
Warsaw's otherwise-excellent Mailman build-install manual is the need
to add the Mailman address pipes to the sendmail aliases file, and run
newaliases.  This has to be done for each list.  The aliases list that
Mailman generates when you create a list is correct for sendmail; just
copy it into the aliases file and run newaliases.   

Barry's manual does include a comprehensive and clear how-to on adding
smrsh (sendmail restricted shell) for Mailman.  However, you also have
to add 
FEATURE(smrsh, /usr/lib/smrsh)dnl
to your main.mc file and recompile.  

Don't try to manage sendmail by editing the .cf files.  Use the .mc
(and .m4) files for everything.  

You absolutly need to have the O'Reilly book "Sendmail," commonly
referred to as the "bat book" because it has a picture of a bat on the
cover.  The recent O'Reilly "Sendmail 8.13 Companion" is another
must-have, and is valuable not only for the 8.13 references, but for a
lot of information that clarifies thing about sendmail in general.
The bat book is 1200 pages of information and nothing if not
comprehensive.  

Additional resources are the Sendmail FAQ and the Usenet newsgroup 
comp.mail.sendmail.  You'll get answers there AFTER you summarize your
researches in the bat book and the FAQ.  

On relaying: the distribution sendmail sources should compile with all
relaying disabled.  If you are running a Solaris system with the Sun
sendmail distribution, you have to change the DOMAIN statements in
both main.mc and subsidiary.mc to
DOMAIN(`solaris-antispam')dnl
For reasons known only to $DEITIES, Sun distributes sendmail with
relaying enabled.  On any other installation, the bat book has a
comprehensive section (several pages) on relaying, and it will tell
you exactly what to check and how to turn on the relaying you need, if
any.  

Virtually everything I've covered above is covered in the sendmail
literature in copious detail.  

One additional comment that I haven't seen clearly outlined in any
documentation, except perhaps the O'Reilly book DNS and BIND 5th
edition (2006) is that sendmail is DNS-intensive.  If you are running
Mailman lists, you should have, at minimum, a caching DNS server on
your local network.  This is both a performance and a netiquette
issue.  In short, don't flood somebody else's DNS with your Mailman
lookups, flood your own.  For best performance, put a DNS server of
some sort on the same box that is running Mailman.  

Hank



From barry at python.org  Mon Feb 26 05:41:34 2007
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 22:41:34 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation and sent messages not
In-Reply-To: <200702260437.l1Q4biQj013545@julie.lostwells.net>
References: <200702260437.l1Q4biQj013545@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <0868D945-98B8-4D77-8FD2-91D268A8E109@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Feb 25, 2007, at 10:37 PM, vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:

> One step that you do have to perform, that I do not see in Barry
> Warsaw's otherwise-excellent Mailman build-install manual is the need
> to add the Mailman address pipes to the sendmail aliases file, and run
> newaliases.  This has to be done for each list.  The aliases list that
> Mailman generates when you create a list is correct for sendmail; just
> copy it into the aliases file and run newaliases.

Thanks Hank.  I haven't used Sendmail in 20 years, so if there is  
some specific text you'd like to see added (or preferably a patch to  
the latex file), please feel free to send it directly to me and I'll  
push up a doc update.

Thanks,
- -Barry

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin)

iQCVAwUBReJk/3EjvBPtnXfVAQK+TQQAuAc+w8c6aq1XcODoVjRPDPKJKimBITrU
0naOycJZRwC92a7IEiUymQexUHGoKMY39b8YwfdkioNis0I+xK1+ePZLCyFmX30+
h4ogtjbhHSbZqvnJWM+38iTINd6kbRHbe+P0gWAyKMxYcCUvv6dEDI/1V6kBNZqN
Au9xQ9RDtxM=
=Twl7
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From sean at sweetbourbon.com  Mon Feb 26 16:50:34 2007
From: sean at sweetbourbon.com (Sean)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 10:50:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] line breaks
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0702260942360.67396@seyyav.pair.com>


This is probably an old topic to this list but I'm at a loss of how to
explain the issue to some my mailman list users.

Basically, they report messages coming through the list with odd line
breaks.  For example:

 This is the text of their message.  After it is received from the list it
 places
 a line break so that some lines only contain one word and a new line
 starts.

They feel it is the list doing this as they report the message looks fine
when they send it to themselves.

As I understand it has to do with the display system and how the mail is
composed.  Some mail clients will send the paragraph as one long line with
a line break at the end of it, while some mail clients put a new line at
the end of each line.  Then the display system may have less columns than
than where the new line is placed at and thus results in the mangled
text.

Does that sound right?  Any feedback on the issue is welcomed and
appreciated.

Thanks,
Sean



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 26 18:49:19 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:49:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] line breaks
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0702260942360.67396@seyyav.pair.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702260949190125752192f0@msapiro>

Sean wrote:
>
>Basically, they report messages coming through the list with odd line
>breaks.  For example:
>
> This is the text of their message.  After it is received from the list it
> places
> a line break so that some lines only contain one word and a new line
> starts.
>
>They feel it is the list doing this as they report the message looks fine
>when they send it to themselves.


At least in some cases, the problem is the original message is sent as
RFC 3676 format="flowed". In this format, the sending MUA creates
'paragraphs' and arbitrarily wraps lines at space characters leaving
trailing spaces in wrapped lines to indicate they should be joined to
the following line. The receiving MUA is supposed to rejoin the flowed
lines and then wrap them to its own display width, but Mailman, in the
process of adding message header and/or footer, and in the process of
scrubbing (if scrub-nondigest is Yes), removes the format="flowed"
parameter from the Content-Type: header, so the receiving MUA thinks
the format is "fixed".

I am currently testing a fix for this problem. See the bug report at
<https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1495122&group_id=103&atid=100103>
for further information and a patch.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From martin at hagelin.nu  Tue Feb 27 10:56:04 2007
From: martin at hagelin.nu (Martin Hagelin)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:56:04 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe command doesn't check for spam?
Message-ID: <11463.195.17.227.132.1172570164.squirrel@intranet.hagelin.nu>

Hi,

I'm using Mailman v. 2.1.9 on a Debian Linux platform. I'm running Exim4
as the MTA with spamassassin doing spam checking when messages are recived
in Exim (Exiscan-acl).

I've set up spam filtering rules in Mailman that will throw away messages
that match ^X-Spam: YES in the headers. This works fine with most of the
spam but messages that are sent to the *-subscribe address are accepted
and not rejected.

This means that mailman sends out confirmation requests to the spammers
mail address, which most often is not valid or goes to some bogus address.
I'm also adding to the flow of unwanted mail messages on the net...

Is this a bug or a feature or have I gotten the things backwards?

Shouldn't postings to the subscribe address be checked in the spam filter?


Regards,
/Martin



From kelly.terry.jones at gmail.com  Tue Feb 27 14:43:21 2007
From: kelly.terry.jones at gmail.com (Kelly Jones)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 06:43:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Alternatives to having a list own itself
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c2042b985028@10.0.1.102>
References: <26face530702221743vde4429ne43eca459d686290@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240500c2042b985028@10.0.1.102>
Message-ID: <26face530702270543u115a5965tb9fa178453f43188@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/22/07, Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:
> At 6:43 PM -0700 2/22/07, Kelly Jones wrote:
>
> >  My question: what's the best way to handle a situation like this? Have
> >  a list owned by itself or "effectively" owned by itself.
>
> What I've done in situations similar to this, is to make the
> listowner list itself owned by an alias that is directly resolvable
> out of /etc/aliases.  So, there is no loop -- owner mail for other
> lists goes to the listowner list, owner mail for the listowner list
> goes to the listmaster alias, and that's that.

Thanks, Brad. My problem here is that the 'sysops' list changes
frequently, and I don't want to maintain it in two places
(/etc/mail/aliases and the list membership). I suppose I could have a
script update /etc/mail/aliases using the output of "list_members
sysops", but this seems kludgey.

I'd also like members of 'sysops' to decide whether they want "message
to 'sysops' awaiting approval" or not. If I make it an alias, everyone
will get these emails. If I send it to a mailing list, I can setup a
topic so that only people who want those messages will receive them.

-- 
We're just a Bunch Of Regular Guys, a collective group that's trying
to understand and assimilate technology. We feel that resistance to
new ideas and technology is unwise and ultimately futile.

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 27 17:26:48 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 08:26:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe command doesn't check for spam?
In-Reply-To: <11463.195.17.227.132.1172570164.squirrel@intranet.hagelin.nu>
Message-ID: <PC176020070227082648050248f06346@msapiro>

Martin Hagelin wrote:
>
>I've set up spam filtering rules in Mailman that will throw away messages
>that match ^X-Spam: YES in the headers. This works fine with most of the
>spam but messages that are sent to the *-subscribe address are accepted
>and not rejected.
>
>This means that mailman sends out confirmation requests to the spammers
>mail address, which most often is not valid or goes to some bogus address.
>I'm also adding to the flow of unwanted mail messages on the net...
>
>Is this a bug or a feature or have I gotten the things backwards?


It is a problem.


>Shouldn't postings to the subscribe address be checked in the spam filter?


Mailman's spam filters are designed to prevent unwanted mail from being
delivered to the list or the list owner (i.e. humans). Thus only mail
to the posting address and the -owner address is processed through
Mailman's SpamDetect module.

As you note above and I acknowledge, sending autoresponses and/or
subscription confirmation requests to spoofed addresses is a problem.
We intend to mitigate this somewhat in Mailman 2.1.10 by optionally
not including the original message in autoresponses, thus not relaying
the spam itself, but this doesn't affect subscription confirmations.

The real question here is why aren't you just rejecting the spam at the
MTA level instead of flagging and forwarding it, and then wanting to
discard it in Mailman?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Feb 27 17:33:16 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 10:33:16 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Alternatives to having a list own itself
In-Reply-To: <26face530702270543u115a5965tb9fa178453f43188@mail.gmail.com>
References: <26face530702221743vde4429ne43eca459d686290@mail.gmail.com>	
	<p06240500c2042b985028@10.0.1.102>
	<26face530702270543u115a5965tb9fa178453f43188@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240501c20a0d1fc87a@[10.0.1.102]>

At 6:43 AM -0700 2/27/07, Kelly Jones wrote:

>  I'd also like members of 'sysops' to decide whether they want "message
>  to 'sysops' awaiting approval" or not. If I make it an alias, everyone
>  will get these emails. If I send it to a mailing list, I can setup a
>  topic so that only people who want those messages will receive them.

But you get into loop issues.  That's why I do things the way I do -- 
I don't get loops.

You've got to decide which is more important to you:

	1)  Avoiding loops and things working right virtually all the time?

Or:

	2)  Convenience?

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From dgood at independence.k12.ia.us  Tue Feb 27 21:16:48 2007
From: dgood at independence.k12.ia.us (Dan Good)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 14:16:48 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Alternatives to having a list own itself
In-Reply-To: <26face530702270543u115a5965tb9fa178453f43188@mail.gmail.com>
References: <26face530702221743vde4429ne43eca459d686290@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240500c2042b985028@10.0.1.102>
	<26face530702270543u115a5965tb9fa178453f43188@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <96BF7269-09EA-40DC-99A4-D94D1D7ACB2B@independence.k12.ia.us>

Where can I find more information concerning the uses of aliases and  
some examples?

Dan Good

On Feb 27, 2007, at 7:43 AM, Kelly Jones wrote:

> On 2/22/07, Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:
>> At 6:43 PM -0700 2/22/07, Kelly Jones wrote:
>>
>>>  My question: what's the best way to handle a situation like  
>>> this? Have
>>>  a list owned by itself or "effectively" owned by itself.
>>
>> What I've done in situations similar to this, is to make the
>> listowner list itself owned by an alias that is directly resolvable
>> out of /etc/aliases.  So, there is no loop -- owner mail for other
>> lists goes to the listowner list, owner mail for the listowner list
>> goes to the listmaster alias, and that's that.
>
> Thanks, Brad. My problem here is that the 'sysops' list changes
> frequently, and I don't want to maintain it in two places
> (/etc/mail/aliases and the list membership). I suppose I could have a
> script update /etc/mail/aliases using the output of "list_members
> sysops", but this seems kludgey.
>
> I'd also like members of 'sysops' to decide whether they want "message
> to 'sysops' awaiting approval" or not. If I make it an alias, everyone
> will get these emails. If I send it to a mailing list, I can setup a
> topic so that only people who want those messages will receive them.
>
> -- 
> We're just a Bunch Of Regular Guys, a collective group that's trying
> to understand and assimilate technology. We feel that resistance to
> new ideas and technology is unwise and ultimately futile.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users% 
> 40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ 
> dgood%40independence.k12.ia.us
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
> req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Feb 27 23:03:41 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 16:03:41 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Alternatives to having a list own itself
In-Reply-To: <96BF7269-09EA-40DC-99A4-D94D1D7ACB2B@independence.k12.ia.us>
References: <26face530702221743vde4429ne43eca459d686290@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240500c2042b985028@10.0.1.102>
	<26face530702270543u115a5965tb9fa178453f43188@mail.gmail.com>
	<96BF7269-09EA-40DC-99A4-D94D1D7ACB2B@independence.k12.ia.us>
Message-ID: <p06240503c20a5ae4083b@[10.0.1.102]>

At 2:16 PM -0600 2/27/07, Dan Good wrote:

>  Where can I find more information concerning the uses of aliases and
>  some examples?

That's going to depend on your MTA.

We have a little information in the Mailman documentation, the FAQ 
Wizard, etc... but most of the useful information will probably be 
found within the documentation that is specific to your MTA.

If you use sendmail, then try sendmail.org.  If you use postfix, then 
try postfix.org.  Or whatever is appropriate for your MTA.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From vancleef at lostwells.net  Wed Feb 28 04:44:29 2007
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (vancleef at lostwells.net)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 20:44:29 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail and solaris stuff
In-Reply-To: <0868D945-98B8-4D77-8FD2-91D268A8E109@python.org>
Message-ID: <200702280344.l1S3iT81022500@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed Barry Warsaw has said:
> 
> Thanks Hank.  I haven't used Sendmail in 20 years, so if there is  
> some specific text you'd like to see added (or preferably a patch to  
> the latex file), please feel free to send it directly to me and I'll  
> push up a doc update.
> 
Barry (and Mark)

Just to acknowledge your note.  I am installing Mailman on a Solaris
10 cold O/S install, and am right at the point in the install manual
where I have to configure sendmail to work with Mailman.  This is the
fourth or fifth time I've gone through the process, so as they say in
the automotive trades, I'm "able to make flat rate."  

Since you guys aren't working with either Sendmail or Solaris, I think
it would be best for me to walk through and record the entire process,
and give that to you as a basis for inclusion where and however you
want to use it.  

I'll note that the sendmail.org faq on setting up virtual domains is
broken, and while the bat book covers doing it, the discussion is not
complete.  I think that including the relevant part of the main.mc
file, as well as the configuration of the local-domain-name file 
(known as the "cw file"), to give the novice admin. all of what is
needed to set up a virtual domain system might be wise.  That would
save you guys from having to answer FAQ questions constantly. 

Mark, I still owe you a how-to on moving an existing list to a new
host.  Your notes on my first stab at it made clear that I was
overcomplicating things.  

Hank


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Feb 28 05:10:31 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 22:10:31 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail and solaris stuff
In-Reply-To: <200702280344.l1S3iT81022500@julie.lostwells.net>
References: <200702280344.l1S3iT81022500@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <p06240501c20ab0a47171@[10.0.1.201]>

At 8:44 PM -0700 2/27/07, vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:

>  Since you guys aren't working with either Sendmail or Solaris, I think
>  it would be best for me to walk through and record the entire process,
>  and give that to you as a basis for inclusion where and however you
>  want to use it.

The ironic thing is that I was the comp.mail.sendmail FAQ maintainer 
for a couple of years -- but that was ten years ago.  It's been so 
long since that I really don't have the recent experience necessary 
to be able to comment usefully on the sendmail-related documentation 
that we have.

>                                                           That would
>  save you guys from having to answer FAQ questions constantly.

Yeah, we need to get all this in one place.

>  Mark, I still owe you a how-to on moving an existing list to a new
>  host.  Your notes on my first stab at it made clear that I was
>  overcomplicating things.

That would also be appreciated.  Thanks!

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From bob at bobcatos.com  Wed Feb 28 05:32:19 2007
From: bob at bobcatos.com (Bob McClure Jr)
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 22:32:19 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No mail and no posts from mailman
Message-ID: <20070228043219.GA3136@bobcat.bobcatos.com>

I am befuddled.

mailman-2.1.8-0.FC4.1 (from RPM)
Fedora Core 4 (kept up to date with nightly yum)
postfix-2.2.2-2 (from RPM)

This is an established list server that has had one functioning list
(albeit very low volume, so I can't swear that it is still working).

I added a new list, put myself and one other person as the
administrator, set it to send notifications of new subscribers, and
subscribed both of us to the list.

Then I sent two test emails to the list, but they seem to have gone into a
black hole.  My workstation mail server sent them:

Feb 26 18:07:33 bobcat postfix/smtp[1119]: 5B3EF42C8: to=<foobarlist at lists.bobcatos.com>, relay=bubba.bobcatos.com[192.168.3.2], delay=0, status=sent (250 Ok: queued as AC98C2057)
Feb 26 22:08:54 bobcat postfix/smtp[11974]: DFFA742C8: to=<foobarlist at lists.bobcatos.com>, relay=bubba.bobcatos.com[192.168.3.2], delay=1, status=sent (250 Ok: queued as 429CA2056)

My list server got it:

Feb 26 18:07:41 bubba postfix/local[17421]: AC98C2057: to=<foobarlist at lists.bobcatos.com>, relay=local, delay=0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post foobarlist)
Feb 26 22:09:03 bubba postfix/local[20514]: 429CA2056: to=<foobarlist at lists.bobcatos.com>, relay=local, delay=1, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post foobarlist)

But nothing came out.  Nothing held for moderation.  Nothing in the
/var/log/mailman/* logs about them.  Nothing in the archives.
Following FAQ 3.14:

0) Did it.

1) # ps auxww| grep mailmanctl |grep -v grep
mailman   7087  0.0  0.3  13048  1672 ?        Ss    2006   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start
# ps auxww | egrep 'p[y]thon'
mailman   7087  0.0  0.3  13048  1672 ?        Ss    2006   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start
mailman   7097  0.0  0.5  12912  2508 ?        S     2006   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s

2) My /etc/mailman/aliases contains (among other things)

# STANZA START: foobarlist
# CREATED: Sat Feb 24 18:33:52 2007
foobarlist:             "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post foobarlist"
foobarlist-admin:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin foobarlist"
foobarlist-bounces:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces foobarlist"
foobarlist-confirm:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm foobarlist"
foobarlist-join:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join foobarlist"
foobarlist-leave:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave foobarlist"
foobarlist-owner:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner foobarlist"
foobarlist-request:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request foobarlist"
foobarlist-subscribe:   "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe foobarlist"
foobarlist-unsubscribe: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe foobarlist"
# STANZA END: foobarlist

And the aliases.db file was updated.  But then we knew that from the
maillog entries.  Also, my postfix main.cf contains

alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases

But then we knew that from the maillog entries, too.

3) Smrsh (not applicable)

4) Interface:  This is a full-bore company mail server and has
   serviced the other list just fine, not to mention Squirrelmail and
   several daemons and cron jobs that send mail.

5) qrunner: Mailman is started by /etc/rc.d/init.d/mailman, and
# service mailman status
mailman (pid 7087) is running...

6) Locks:

# ls -l ~mailman/locks
ls: /usr/lib/mailman/locks: No such file or directory

7) Logs:  The only things in the logs are the subscriptions:

[root at bubba mailman]# cat qrunner
Feb 25 04:08:42 2007 (7087) Master watcher caught SIGHUP.  Re-opening log files.
Feb 25 04:08:44 2007 (7097) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.  Reopening logs.
[root at bubba mailman]# cat subscribe
Feb 26 17:42:35 2007 (10359) foobarlist: new bob at bobcatos.com, admin mass sub
Feb 26 17:42:35 2007 (10359) foobarlist: new otherperson at domain.com, admin mass sub

   The only thing in error is the result of running mailmanctl with no
   arguments.  /var/log/mailman/smtp is zero-length.

8) Qfiles: # ls -l ~mailman/qfiles
ls: /usr/lib/mailman/qfiles: No such file or directory
# locate qfiles
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/show_qfiles

   Okay, with this and (6), I'm wondering if some directories are
   missing.  But if so, why is (or was) the other list functioning,
   and why is there nothing in the logs about it?

   Also, the server has been up for 216 days, and the other list was
   created since the last boot, so there's been no system crash to
   take something out.

9) SMTPHOST: /var/log/mailman/smtp shows no signs of distress, in
   fact, it is zero-length (and owned by mailman).

10) Sendmail + mm-handler (not applicable)

For FAQ 1.7:

a) N/A since this is v2.1.8.

b, c, and d) Aliases are ok by inspection and log entries, above.

e) qrunner is running.

f) No messages for moderation.

g) /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py contains

DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = "www.bobcatos.com"
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = "lists.bobcatos.com"
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

What clues am I missing?

Cheers,
-- 
Bob McClure, Jr.             Bobcat Open Systems, Inc.
bob at bobcatos.com             http://www.bobcatos.com
"But what about you?" Jesus asked. "Who do you say I am?"
Peter answered, "You are the Christ."  Mark 8:29 (NIV)

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb 28 16:32:49 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 07:32:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No mail and no posts from mailman
In-Reply-To: <20070228043219.GA3136@bobcat.bobcatos.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007022807324901091325761e@msapiro>

Bob McClure Jr wrote:
>
>1) # ps auxww| grep mailmanctl |grep -v grep
>mailman   7087  0.0  0.3  13048  1672 ?        Ss    2006   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start
># ps auxww | egrep 'p[y]thon'
>mailman   7087  0.0  0.3  13048  1672 ?        Ss    2006   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start
>mailman   7097  0.0  0.5  12912  2508 ?        S     2006   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s


Seven of eight qrunner processes are missing. Please reread FAQ 3.14,
sec 1, and let us know how to emphasize that all eight qrunners should
be running.


>6) Locks:
>
># ls -l ~mailman/locks
>ls: /usr/lib/mailman/locks: No such file or directory


I think in FC4 you'll find them in /var/locks/mailman.


>7) Logs:  The only things in the logs are the subscriptions:
>
>[root at bubba mailman]# cat qrunner
>Feb 25 04:08:42 2007 (7087) Master watcher caught SIGHUP.  Re-opening log files.
>Feb 25 04:08:44 2007 (7097) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.  Reopening logs.
>[root at bubba mailman]# cat subscribe
>Feb 26 17:42:35 2007 (10359) foobarlist: new bob at bobcatos.com, admin mass sub
>Feb 26 17:42:35 2007 (10359) foobarlist: new otherperson at domain.com, admin mass sub
>
>   The only thing in error is the result of running mailmanctl with no
>   arguments.  /var/log/mailman/smtp is zero-length.


Your logs rotate. (The default for Fedora is weekly for 4 generations I
think.) Check the old qrunner.[1234] and error.[1234] logs to see if
there is info there as to why the qrunners died.

Meanwhile, manually do 'bin/mailmanctl stop' and 'bin/mailmanctl
start'. Don't do just a restart.


>8) Qfiles: # ls -l ~mailman/qfiles
>ls: /usr/lib/mailman/qfiles: No such file or directory
># locate qfiles
>/usr/lib/mailman/bin/show_qfiles


I think they're in /var/spool/mailman, and you'll find all your
messages in the 'in' queue and the 'virgin' queue and they will be
sent when Mailman's qrunners are running again.


>   Okay, with this and (6), I'm wondering if some directories are
>   missing.  But if so, why is (or was) the other list functioning,
>   and why is there nothing in the logs about it?


They're not missing. You just aren't looking in the right places. And
the log entries have rotated to older logs or oblivion.


>What clues am I missing?


See above.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From sruli at alsonetworks.com  Wed Feb 28 17:16:28 2007
From: sruli at alsonetworks.com (Sruli Shaffren)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 18:16:28 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] shunting - archive problem?
Message-ID: <4750.24.185.49.235.1172679388.squirrel@24.185.49.235>

Hi,

I am looking for help on a problem with one of my lists.  Currently
everything is shunting.  This is using version 2.1.6 of Mailman:
Feb 28 08:04:24 2007 (16894) Uncaught runner exception:
356461.34359.qm at web50307.mail.yahoo.com
Feb 28 08:04:24 2007 (16894) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 89, in _dispose
    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 217, in
ArchiveMail
    h.close()
  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 321, in close
    self.write_TOC()
  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 1324, in
write_TOC
    rss.write(self.RSS())
  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 1023, in RSS
    article = items[i] = self.database.getArticle(self.archive, items[i])
  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 284,
in getArticle
    buf = self.articleIndex[msgid]
  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 146,
in __getitem__
    return self.dict[item]
KeyError: 356461.34359.qm at web50307.mail.yahoo.com

Feb 28 08:04:26 2007 (16894) SHUNTING:
1164951564.8909371+0c84386d68f178608e0aa40e88a8aaac49173559

I have tried to shut down the qrunner and have rebuilt the archives using
this command:
# bin/arch --wipe list

Any suggestions?

-- 
Sruli Shaffren
Also Networks
sruli at alsonetworks.com

From pkey at sgul.ac.uk  Wed Feb 28 17:11:02 2007
From: pkey at sgul.ac.uk (Paul Key)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 16:11:02 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can email notification of approval be done?
Message-ID: <45E5A996.3090201@sgul.ac.uk>

Hi

When a user posts to a moderated list and the list admin rejects their 
post they get an email to tell them their post has been rejected.

What I want to do is when a poster to a moderated list is approved - 
they are sent an email by mailman telling them about the approval AND it 
would be nice if a third party could be cc'd this email at the same time.

Can approval notification by email be done by mailman (in the same way 
it is done automatically for rejections)?

Thanks

Paul

From bob at bobcatos.com  Wed Feb 28 17:43:59 2007
From: bob at bobcatos.com (Bob McClure Jr)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:43:59 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No mail and no posts from mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007022807324901091325761e@msapiro>
References: <20070228043219.GA3136@bobcat.bobcatos.com>
	<PC17602007022807324901091325761e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20070228164359.GB29311@bobcat.bobcatos.com>

On Wed, Feb 28, 2007 at 07:32:49AM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Bob McClure Jr wrote:
> >
> >1) # ps auxww| grep mailmanctl |grep -v grep
> >mailman   7087  0.0  0.3  13048  1672 ?        Ss    2006   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start
> ># ps auxww | egrep 'p[y]thon'
> >mailman   7087  0.0  0.3  13048  1672 ?        Ss    2006   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start
> >mailman   7097  0.0  0.5  12912  2508 ?        S     2006   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
> 
> 
> Seven of eight qrunner processes are missing. Please reread FAQ 3.14,
> sec 1, and let us know how to emphasize that all eight qrunners should
> be running.

I wondered about that, but when I ran "mailmanctl status", it didn't
report anything amiss, so I didn't know what to think.  Now I know
that there are eight of those suckers to account for.

> >6) Locks:
> >
> ># ls -l ~mailman/locks
> >ls: /usr/lib/mailman/locks: No such file or directory
> 
> 
> I think in FC4 you'll find them in /var/locks/mailman.

/var/lock/mailman, actually.  Thanks for the clue.

> >7) Logs:  The only things in the logs are the subscriptions:
> >
> >[root at bubba mailman]# cat qrunner
> >Feb 25 04:08:42 2007 (7087) Master watcher caught SIGHUP.  Re-opening log files.
> >Feb 25 04:08:44 2007 (7097) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.  Reopening logs.
> >[root at bubba mailman]# cat subscribe
> >Feb 26 17:42:35 2007 (10359) foobarlist: new bob at bobcatos.com, admin mass sub
> >Feb 26 17:42:35 2007 (10359) foobarlist: new otherperson at domain.com, admin mass sub
> >
> >   The only thing in error is the result of running mailmanctl with no
> >   arguments.  /var/log/mailman/smtp is zero-length.
> 
> 
> Your logs rotate. (The default for Fedora is weekly for 4 generations I
> think.) Check the old qrunner.[1234] and error.[1234] logs to see if
> there is info there as to why the qrunners died.

There are no clues in there, so they must have died over a month ago.
Do I need to put in a cron-driven monitor to check up on the qrunners
or is there a more sophisticated way to do that?

> Meanwhile, manually do 'bin/mailmanctl stop' and 'bin/mailmanctl
> start'. Don't do just a restart.

Excellent!  It's up and has flushed all the messages it had queued.
Thank you, sir.

> >8) Qfiles: # ls -l ~mailman/qfiles
> >ls: /usr/lib/mailman/qfiles: No such file or directory
> ># locate qfiles
> >/usr/lib/mailman/bin/show_qfiles
> 
> 
> I think they're in /var/spool/mailman, and you'll find all your
> messages in the 'in' queue and the 'virgin' queue and they will be
> sent when Mailman's qrunners are running again.

Ah, another great clue.  Never thought of looking there, though it's
perfectly logical.

> >   Okay, with this and (6), I'm wondering if some directories are
> >   missing.  But if so, why is (or was) the other list functioning,
> >   and why is there nothing in the logs about it?
> 
> 
> They're not missing. You just aren't looking in the right places. And
> the log entries have rotated to older logs or oblivion.

Yep.

> >What clues am I missing?
> 
> 
> See above.

Excellent!  Thank you again.

> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

Cheers,
-- 
Bob McClure, Jr.             Bobcat Open Systems, Inc.
bob at bobcatos.com             http://www.bobcatos.com
Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with
God all things are possible."  Matthew 19:26 (NIV)

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb 28 18:32:13 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 09:32:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] shunting - archive problem?
In-Reply-To: <4750.24.185.49.235.1172679388.squirrel@24.185.49.235>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702280932130765ae05a52a@msapiro>

Sruli Shaffren wrote:
>
>I am looking for help on a problem with one of my lists.  Currently
>everything is shunting.  This is using version 2.1.6 of Mailman:
>Feb 28 08:04:24 2007 (16894) Uncaught runner exception:
>356461.34359.qm at web50307.mail.yahoo.com
>Feb 28 08:04:24 2007 (16894) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 89, in _dispose
>    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
>  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 217, in
>ArchiveMail
>    h.close()
>  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 321, in close
>    self.write_TOC()
>  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 1324, in
>write_TOC
>    rss.write(self.RSS())


This is not Mailman 2.1.6 as distributed by the Mailman project. Our
2.1.6 Hyperarch.py contains only 1297 lines and no RSS method.


>  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 1023, in RSS
>    article = items[i] = self.database.getArticle(self.archive, items[i])
>  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 284,
>in getArticle
>    buf = self.articleIndex[msgid]
>  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 146,
>in __getitem__
>    return self.dict[item]
>KeyError: 356461.34359.qm at web50307.mail.yahoo.com
>
>Feb 28 08:04:26 2007 (16894) SHUNTING:
>1164951564.8909371+0c84386d68f178608e0aa40e88a8aaac49173559
>
>I have tried to shut down the qrunner and have rebuilt the archives using
>this command:
># bin/arch --wipe list


That said, it looks like there might be a problem with the last message
in the archive. I suggest looking in the listname.mbox/listname.mbox
file for a message with Message-ID: containing
356461.34359.qm at web50307.mail.yahoo.com.

If you can see anything strange about this message or its Message-ID:,
try 'fixing' it or removing it from listname.mbox/listname.mbox and
running 'bin/arch --wipe listname' again.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bill at vesa.org  Wed Feb 28 23:24:17 2007
From: bill at vesa.org (Bill Lempesis)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 14:24:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation issues
Message-ID: <004d01c75b87$38a77680$6601a8c0@BILLHP>

I want members to be able to send to the list unmoderated but reject all
non-member postings. Can't figure this out with 2.1.9

 

Bill

 


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb 28 23:32:53 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 14:32:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation issues
In-Reply-To: <004d01c75b87$38a77680$6601a8c0@BILLHP>
Message-ID: <PC1760200702281432530765c38cf092@msapiro>

Bill Lempesis wrote:

>I want members to be able to send to the list unmoderated but reject all
>non-member postings. Can't figure this out with 2.1.9


In the admin interface Privacy options...->Sender filters:

    default_member_moderation = No
    generic_nonmember_action = Reject

Then go to Membership Management->Membership List, scroll down to
Additional Member Tasks and select Off under "Set everyone's
moderation bit, including those members not currently visible" and
click 'Set' to turn off moderation for any currently moderated members.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan