[Mailman-Users] List Topics (was: accept_these_nonmembers not working)

[Cyndi Norwitz]

   Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:08:34 -0600
   From: Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>

   Mailman was never intended to be used in a service provider environment.
   To the extent it is, the onus of providing all support for the product
   as installed falls upon the service provider.  It's not really fair for
   them to install something and then take a completely hands-off attitude
   towards supporting it.

   You wouldn't buy a car from a dealer who was unwilling to do any repairs
   or warranty work, but who instead forced you to ship the vehicle back to
   the manufacturer every time.  I don't see any difference here.

   We try to be as helpful as we can, but we really shouldn't be the
   support department for every single ISP in the world who wants to
   install our software but who then can't be bothered to provide any local
   support.

Okay, this explains your attitude in previous replies to me.  I just
couldn't figure out why you kept dissing my ISP, who is pretty local
(though spreading out around Calif) so you probably don't even know them.

I love my ISP and I don't say that lightly.  Nor am I implying they've
never pissed me off before.  This is a place where the CEO replies
helpfully to newsgroup posts (that's their prefered customer communication
area, sonic.* usenet groups), even (rare) ones that insult him, a place
where they keep adding new features and functions without raising prices
(completely opposite of my old ISP which was the excellent best.com until
they got bought out by Verio and features started going poof and support
went out the window...or over the ocean).

It is the case though that Mailman isn't one of their top priorities.  Oh,
they maintain it and they have dealt with my more pressing needs.  It's
hardly "hands-off."  When I posted to the usenet group about mass subscribe
not working, they agreed to migrate my subscription lists for me.  When I
had trouble starting new lists, they tracked it down to a bug on their end
and fixed it.  They are responsive.

On the other hand, bothering the ISP staff isn't what I want to do for
general Mailman questions.  Like this issue of accept_these_nonmembers.  Or
questions about setup and features.  These belong in a general discussion.

I have tried very hard to separate out my questions into things that appear
to be local issues and things that are about Mailman in general.  The
former goes to the Sonic group, though it's not well populated there.

When I did a search for a general Mailman support discussion list, I found
this one.  If I am wrong about this list's purpose, please tell me!  Is
this list mainly for announcing version updates, reporting bugs, and asking
for new features?  If so, I'd still stay, because those things interest me.
But if there is a better list for the general user "how do I do X?" or
"help me troubleshoot Y" questions, let me know and I'll go join it.

Cyndi