From msapiro at value.net  Wed Aug  1 02:15:18 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 17:15:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Missing reject message
In-Reply-To: <20070731042331.GR16573@sitsika>
Message-ID: <PC176020070731171518054627d211d4@msapiro>

Par Leijonhufvud wrote:
>
>The error log contains batches of lines like:
>
>: Jul 30 18:54:24 2007 (22938) SHUNTING: 1185814463.897408+034ae029c666d13146eca9da915230fe846786c9
>: Jul 31 00:47:55 2007 (22938) Uncaught runner exception: incomplete format
>: Jul 31 00:47:55 2007 (22938) Traceback (most recent call last):
>:   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
>:     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>:   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, in _onefile
>:     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>:   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
>:     more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>:   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline
>:     sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>:   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py", line 111, in process
>:     do_reject(mlist)
>:   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py", line 139, in do_reject
>:     raise Errors.RejectMessage, \
>:   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/i18n.py", line 90, in _
>:     return tns % dict
>: ValueError: incomplete format


The nonmember_rejection_notice for the non working list contains a 'bad
format'. This is probably because it contains a bare percent symbol
(%). If you want to include percent symbols in the text of this
message, they have to be doubled as in "More than 98%% of the
non-member posts to this list are spam". This will result in a single
'%' in the result.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Aug  1 02:42:48 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 17:42:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Looping Moderator Approval
	Requests/	Mailman&Exim
In-Reply-To: <46AF1896.5040909@jennic.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070731174248003174ecf58f@msapiro>

Mike Peachey wrote:

>Mike Peachey wrote:
>> 
>> This then suggests that we have two options:
>> 1. Find a way to stop mailman from attaching the held message to a 
>> moderator approval request e-mail


This is on the ToDo list for Mailman 2.1.10. In the mean time see
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=760567&group_id=103&atid=300103>
for a patch.


>> 2. Find a way to reconfigure Exim & SpamAssassin so that all messages 
>> are passed through SpamAssasin, except those that are routed to Mailman, 
>> and then use the info available for integrating mailman and SpamAssassin 
>> to have Mailman call SpamAssassin itself, although this does seem like a 
>> pretty inefficient way to deal with it because everything will still end 
>> up going through spamd.
>> 
>> I heartily appreciate any comments on this as I'm a bit stuck with the 
>> best way to proceed.
>
>Or option 3. find a way to get Mailman to ignore the list Spam Filter 
>settings for the -owner addresses.

put these four lines (lines 1 and 3 at the left margin, lines 2 and 4
indented 4 spaces) in mm_cfg.py.

try:
    del OWNER_PIPELINE[OWNER_PIPELINE.index('SpamDetect')]
except ValueError:
    pass

This will remove SpamDetect from the pipeline of handlers through which
messages to list-owner are processed, thus skiping the processing of
header_filter_rules and mm_cfg.KNOWN_SPAMMERS for mail to the
list-owner addresses.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cengao at gmail.com  Wed Aug  1 03:06:19 2007
From: cengao at gmail.com (Cen Gao)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 21:06:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] web interface bug after restore mailman
In-Reply-To: <e5add1ba0707311803h4f69f3eck8a0e7d88ab52e6e1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e5add1ba0707311803h4f69f3eck8a0e7d88ab52e6e1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e5add1ba0707311806p1ed6567ld7018e33236d784a@mail.gmail.com>

Dear mailman users:

I've some problems after I restore the mailman list from backup on my mac.
By restoring the list, I simply follow the step  described in the link below.

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2002-March/018084.html


Now mailman works well and it can distribute mail without any problem.
The only problem I get is I can not access any web interface pages and
it shows the error message as below.

*********
Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited,
but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.
**********

I am pretty sure that my httpd is configured well.(Otherwise, I should get a "
404 not found" error rather than this)
check_perms  shows no permission problem.
I even did a reinstall from source and the problem remains.

And it seems that the  $mailman/logs/error didn't show any error, nor
I can found any in /var/logs/

Any ideas? Or beside the entire $mailman folder, the httpd.config
file, the postfix alias database, is there any other file I should
restore also?


thanks a lot


Cen

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Aug  1 03:54:14 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 18:54:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] web interface bug after restore mailman
In-Reply-To: <e5add1ba0707311806p1ed6567ld7018e33236d784a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070731185414065625fef07e@msapiro>

Cen Gao wrote"
>
>Now mailman works well and it can distribute mail without any problem.
>The only problem I get is I can not access any web interface pages and
>it shows the error message as below.
>
>*********
>Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9
>
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
>Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
>traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited,
>but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.
>**********
>
>I am pretty sure that my httpd is configured well.(Otherwise, I should get a "
>404 not found" error rather than this)
>check_perms  shows no permission problem.
>I even did a reinstall from source and the problem remains.
>
>And it seems that the  $mailman/logs/error didn't show any error, nor
>I can found any in /var/logs/


Look in mm_cfg.py for a definition of LOG_DIR. If there isn't one, then
look in Defaults.py ( there it should be
LOG_DIR         = os.path.join(VAR_PREFIX, 'logs')
), and if so, then look in Defaults.py for the definition of
VAR_PREFIX. This should tell you where the logs are.

If you still can't find them, or if the problem is the error log isn't
being written (are the smtp and post logs in the same directory being
written?), you can edit $mailman/scripts/driver and find line 31 or so
which says

STEALTH_MODE = 0

and change it to

STEALTH_MODE = 1

which will display the error information in your browser. Without this
information, there's not much more we can do.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Luke.Daly at newcastle.edu.au  Wed Aug  1 04:06:51 2007
From: Luke.Daly at newcastle.edu.au (Luke Daly)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 12:06:51 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] few seperate issues
Message-ID: <46B0775B.2D70.00D6.1@newcastle.edu.au>

Hi Guys

Always very useful. Iam from Newcastle University so will go add to
organisations that use mailman at the wiki.

few questions please forgive me only lived with the system for a week
or so and iam a windows sysad so extra dumb and have ALOT of lists.

1. I have a list that all members are set to moderated yet all users
seem to be able to post to it. I have checked setting against a working
list was wondering what i should check next?

2. is there an easy way i can get list administrators to spit out a
list of all users in there list into a text file? or something that can
be cut and pasted nicely?

3. Is there some way I can see a list of all people able to post to
the list?



Luke Daly
Systems Officer
IT Infrastructure
Newcastle University
17000
 

 


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Aug  1 05:23:32 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:23:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] few seperate issues
In-Reply-To: <46B0775B.2D70.00D6.1@newcastle.edu.au>
Message-ID: <PC1760200707312023320343fd2ecbd7@msapiro>

Luke Daly wrote:
>
>1. I have a list that all members are set to moderated yet all users
>seem to be able to post to it. I have checked setting against a working
>list was wondering what i should check next?


Are the members really moderated? Is the 'mod' box checked for each
user on the Membership Management...->Membership List pages?

If not, under "Additional Member Tasks" on that page set "Set
everyone's moderation bit, including those members not currently
visible" to 'on' and click 'Set'


>2. is there an easy way i can get list administrators to spit out a
>list of all users in there list into a text file? or something that can
>be cut and pasted nicely?


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>.


>3. Is there some way I can see a list of all people able to post to
>the list?


Not per se. The list of everyone who can post without moderation is
those members in the membership list whose 'mod' flag is off plus
those non-members whose address is in or matches a pattern in
accept_these_nonmembers plus every non-member if
generic_nonmember_action is 'Accept'.

Also, anyone, member or not, who knows the list's admin or moderator
password can post with an "Approved: password" header.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cengao at gmail.com  Wed Aug  1 06:14:04 2007
From: cengao at gmail.com (Cen Gao)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 00:14:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] web interface bug after restore mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070731185414065625fef07e@msapiro>
References: <e5add1ba0707311806p1ed6567ld7018e33236d784a@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC176020070731185414065625fef07e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <e5add1ba0707312114v16ce8af7w4d2dd9f8b00304a5@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark:
thanks a  lot for your suggestion.
the error log is as follows


Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy
of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what
happened. Thanks!

Traceback:


Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman//scripts/driver", line 82, in run_main
immediate=1)
  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman//Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py",
line 52, in __init__
    Logger.__init__(self, category, nofail, immediate)
  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman//Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 50, in __init__
    self.__get_f()
  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman//Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 68, in __get_f
    1)
  File "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/codecs.py",
line 566, in open
    file = __builtin__.open(filename, mode, buffering)
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/bin/mailman/logs/error'
Python information:

Variable	Value
sys.version	 2.3.5 (#1, Dec 25 2005, 07:24:19) [GCC 4.0.1 (Apple
Computer, Inc. build 5250)]
sys.executable	 /usr/bin/python
sys.prefix	 /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3
sys.exec_prefix	 /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3
sys.path	 /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3
sys.platform	 darwin



FYI, the log directory and even all the mailman directory is owned by
mailman:mailman

And in /logs/error , it says


Aug 01 00:02:04 2007 (432) Uncaught runner exception: multipart message with
 no defined boundary
Aug 01 00:02:04 2007 (432) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman//Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman//Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 164, in dequ
eue
    msg = email.message_from_string(msg, Message.Message)
  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init__.py", line 51, in message
_from_string
    return Parser(_class, strict=strict).parsestr(s)
  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
    return self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 246, in _parsebo
dy
    raise Errors.BoundaryError(
BoundaryError: multipart message with no defined boundary
Aug 01 00:02:04 2007 (432) Ignoring unparseable message: 1181090435.8718021+ee06
64d951288e0b7e6fb4b4e2b0efdc18362709

and this error log has only been written twice since I restored this
directory, although I've accessed the web page tons of times.


thanks again for your help


Cen


On 7/31/07, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Cen Gao wrote"
> >
> >Now mailman works well and it can distribute mail without any problem.
> >The only problem I get is I can not access any web interface pages and
> >it shows the error message as below.
> >
> >*********
> >Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9
> >
> >We're sorry, we hit a bug!
> >
> >Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
> >traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited,
> >but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.
> >**********
> >
> >I am pretty sure that my httpd is configured well.(Otherwise, I should get a "
> >404 not found" error rather than this)
> >check_perms  shows no permission problem.
> >I even did a reinstall from source and the problem remains.
> >
> >And it seems that the  $mailman/logs/error didn't show any error, nor
> >I can found any in /var/logs/
>
>
> Look in mm_cfg.py for a definition of LOG_DIR. If there isn't one, then
> look in Defaults.py ( there it should be
> LOG_DIR         = os.path.join(VAR_PREFIX, 'logs')
> ), and if so, then look in Defaults.py for the definition of
> VAR_PREFIX. This should tell you where the logs are.
>
> If you still can't find them, or if the problem is the error log isn't
> being written (are the smtp and post logs in the same directory being
> written?), you can edit $mailman/scripts/driver and find line 31 or so
> which says
>
> STEALTH_MODE = 0
>
> and change it to
>
> STEALTH_MODE = 1
>
> which will display the error information in your browser. Without this
> information, there's not much more we can do.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From pkey at sgul.ac.uk  Wed Aug  1 09:39:11 2007
From: pkey at sgul.ac.uk (Paul Key)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 08:39:11 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the received time on an outgoing
	authorized email message?
Message-ID: <46B0389F.3080607@sgul.ac.uk>

When authorizing a moderated list posting is it possible to change the 
date/time on the outgoing authorized list message to the time it was 
approved instead of the message showing the time it was first received 
by mailman?

Thanks

Paul

From andrew at cnet.org  Wed Aug  1 10:30:45 2007
From: andrew at cnet.org (Andrew Steele)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 09:30:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman refusing to stop/start with errors PID
	unreadable
Message-ID: <46B052C5.8545.1A114423@andrew.cnet.org>

We are currently in the process of moving our mailing lists to a new 
virtual server.  The new server is using Webmin/Virtualmin 'control 
panel'.

When installed, Mailman appears in the control panel and we can set up 
our lists without a problem.

However, we have, twice had Mailman suddenly stop working.

If we issue a shell command to mailmanctl to STOP using 
/var/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl stop we get the following warning that 
the PID in unreadable.

     Shutting down Mailman's master qrunner
     PID unreadable in: /var/run/mailman/mailman.pid
     [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/var/run/mailman/mailman.pid'
     Is qrunner even running?

Attempting to restart the qrunner using: 

     /var/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start

Produces a series of warning messages and the qrunner does not restart. 

     Traceback (most recent call last):
       File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 554, in ?
         main()
       File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 389, in main
         lock = acquire_lock(force)
       File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 213, in acquire_lock
         lock = acquire_lock_1(force)
       File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 198, in 
     acquire_lock_1
         lock.lock(0.1)
       File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 243, in lock
         self.__write()
       File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 422, in __write
         fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
     IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 
     '/var/lib/mailman/locks/master-qrunner.airedale.9290.1'

Our only solution, so far, has been to remove and reinstall Mailman.  
This is OK whilst we are setting everything up but will not be adequate 
once we 'go live'.

Can anyone offer a solution?  It isn't clear what is triggering this 
occurrence... :-(

Any insight and advice gratefully received.

Andrew


From mike.peachey at jennic.com  Wed Aug  1 13:02:40 2007
From: mike.peachey at jennic.com (Mike Peachey)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 12:02:40 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible to filter what is archived?
Message-ID: <46B06850.4050102@jennic.com>

If you assume Mailman is configured for an organisation as a 
hierarchical structure of umbrealla lists.. e.g.:

ALL@ -> Dept1@, Dept2@, Dept3@
Dept1@ -> Dept1admin@, dept1engineers@
Dept2@ -> Dept2admin@, dept2engineers@
Dept3@ -> Dept3admin@, dept3engineers@

When archiving, it can get a bit messy when e-mails to ALL@ get archived 
in all of the sub lists the messages pass through.

What I would like to do is filter what gets archived so that if a 
message originates in mailman (ie from an umbrella list) it doesn't get 
archived.

Any thoughts?

I appreciate this may not be possible.
-- 
Kind Regards,

__________________________________________________

Mike Peachey, IT
Tel: +44 114 281 2655
Fax: +44 114 281 2951
Jennic Ltd, Furnival Street, Sheffield, S1 4QT, UK
Comp Reg No: 3191371 - Registered In England
http://www.jennic.com
__________________________________________________

From mailman at johncom.net  Wed Aug  1 13:08:58 2007
From: mailman at johncom.net (Trevor Dodds)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 13:08:58 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing
Message-ID: <A228CEC350D4DD4B97BC9F2F7073BA9C011A798E@rbkmbx01.johncom.johnnic.dom>

Hi,

My bounce processing is set to:

The maximum member bounce score before the member's subscription is
disabled. This value can be a floating point number.  3.0
The number of days after which a member's bounce information is
discarded, if no new bounces have been received in the interim. This
value must be an integer.  4
How many Your Membership Is Disabled warnings a disabled member should
get before their address is removed from the mailing list. Set to 0 to
immediately remove an address from the list once their bounce score
exceeds the threshold. This value must be an integer.  2
The number of days between sending the Your Membership Is Disabled
warnings. This value must be an integer. 2

The problem is that on the 25 July I had 2000 users accounts set to
disabled as they reached the threshold of 3.0 warning emails were sent
out. Nothing has happened since no second warning message also the
accounts haven't been unsubscribed. 

Is there anything I can check to see why this process is not working?

Thanks
Trevor
 
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From james at freecharity.org.uk  Wed Aug  1 13:49:54 2007
From: james at freecharity.org.uk (James Davis)
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 12:49:54 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with archives and escaping of "From"
Message-ID: <46B07362.1010201@freecharity.org.uk>

Running mailman 2.1.9-7 on Debian 4.0.

The archive for one of my lists played up today and two extra entries
appeared containing only the tail end of a seperate post. It turns out
that the archive software got confused when it came across a line in the
body that started "From" and had been properly escaped to ">From" in the
mbox file.

It treated that as the start of the e-mail. Deleting the ">" appears to
unconfused the archive software and the messages appeared as they
should. Am I getting my head in a twist, shouldn't the behavior have
been the other way around?

Thanks,

James

-- 
http://www.freecharity.org.uk/ - Free IT services for charities
http://www.freecharity.org.uk/wiki/ - The VCSWiki

From melick.andy at ncocc.k12.oh.us  Wed Aug  1 15:39:35 2007
From: melick.andy at ncocc.k12.oh.us (Melick Andy)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 09:39:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 550 User Unknown when trying to post to
	mailman/sendmail list
Message-ID: <04817796C25A0A48BC3A659D1ADB64630486494A@NCOLV01VS1.ncocc-k12.org>

Hello,
 
I setup mailman without any issues "I think". I also have configured sendmail to work with mailman. I followed the directions by David Champion to integrate these two applications. I can telnet and my sendmail server seems to be responding fine as well as I can create email lists in the mailman web interface. 
 
Im confused at this point from the directions. I do not understand how mailman interacts with sendmail. I do not have anything in my virtusertable and my mm-handler is default. I have compiled my mailman.mc as sendmail.cf and put it in the "working dir". How does mailman create the sendmail users or does it use an alias for all of the lists?
 
All I get is unknown user when I try to send to my lists.
 
Any help would be great
 
Thanks,
 
Andy

From fbsdolot at cit.ru  Wed Aug  1 16:14:06 2007
From: fbsdolot at cit.ru (Geo)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 18:14:06 +0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fw: 550 User Unknown when trying to post
	tomailman/sendmail list
Message-ID: <046901c7d446$384b80e0$e50010ac@gkt>




What about OS?  I have the same problems FreeBSD 6.2...
 Geo

> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Melick Andy" <melick.andy at ncocc.k12.oh.us>
> To: <mailman-users at python.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 5:39 PM
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] 550 User Unknown when trying to post 
> tomailman/sendmail list
>
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I setup mailman without any issues "I think". I also have configured 
>> sendmail to work with mailman. I followed the directions by David 
>> Champion to integrate these two applications. I can telnet and my 
>> sendmail server seems to be responding fine as well as I can create email 
>> lists in the mailman web interface.
>>
>> Im confused at this point from the directions. I do not understand how 
>> mailman interacts with sendmail. I do not have anything in my 
>> virtusertable and my mm-handler is default. I have compiled my mailman.mc 
>> as sendmail.cf and put it in the "working dir". How does mailman create 
>> the sendmail users or does it use an alias for all of the lists?
>>
>> All I get is unknown user when I try to send to my lists.
>>
>> Any help would be great
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Andy
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list
>> Mailman-Users at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>> Searchable Archives: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe: 
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/fbsdolot%40cit.ru
>>
>> Security Policy: 
>> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>>
> 


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Aug  1 16:16:48 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 07:16:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] web interface bug after restore mailman
In-Reply-To: <e5add1ba0707312114v16ce8af7w4d2dd9f8b00304a5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007080107164804688d268224@msapiro>

Cen Gao wrote:
>
>Traceback:
>
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman//scripts/driver", line 82, in run_main
>immediate=1)
>  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman//Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py",
>line 52, in __init__
>    Logger.__init__(self, category, nofail, immediate)
>  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman//Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 50, in __init__
>    self.__get_f()
>  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman//Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 68, in __get_f
>    1)
>  File "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/codecs.py",
>line 566, in open
>    file = __builtin__.open(filename, mode, buffering)
>IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/bin/mailman/logs/error'
<snip>
>
>
>FYI, the log directory and even all the mailman directory is owned by
>mailman:mailman


The web server cannot write the error log. Are all the wrappers in
$mailman/cgi-bin/ group mailman and do they all have the SETGID bit
set?

E.g., -rwxr-sr-x xxxx mailman


If this is OK, I seem to recall some Apple issue mentioned on this list
a couple of years ago. Search the archives.
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.018.htp>


Was there anything else on the page before this about the initial
problem that it was trying to write to the error log?



>And in /logs/error , it says
>
>
>Aug 01 00:02:04 2007 (432) Uncaught runner exception: multipart message with
> no defined boundary
>Aug 01 00:02:04 2007 (432) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman//Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
>    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman//Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 164, in dequ
>eue
>    msg = email.message_from_string(msg, Message.Message)
>  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init__.py", line 51, in message
>_from_string
>    return Parser(_class, strict=strict).parsestr(s)
>  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
>    return self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
>  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
>    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
>  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 246, in _parsebo
>dy
>    raise Errors.BoundaryError(
>BoundaryError: multipart message with no defined boundary
>Aug 01 00:02:04 2007 (432) Ignoring unparseable message: 1181090435.8718021+ee06
>64d951288e0b7e6fb4b4e2b0efdc18362709


This error is from an incoming post that is unparseable - almost
certainly spam. The message was discarded.


>and this error log has only been written twice since I restored this
>directory, although I've accessed the web page tons of times.


The web server can't write the error log.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From carbonnb at gmail.com  Wed Aug  1 16:17:54 2007
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 10:17:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 550 User Unknown when trying to post to
	mailman/sendmail list
In-Reply-To: <04817796C25A0A48BC3A659D1ADB64630486494A@NCOLV01VS1.ncocc-k12.org>
References: <04817796C25A0A48BC3A659D1ADB64630486494A@NCOLV01VS1.ncocc-k12.org>
Message-ID: <e04a6c920708010717m464b4843p2ea2f1f33d3223c1@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/1/07, Melick Andy <melick.andy at ncocc.k12.oh.us> wrote:

> I setup mailman without any issues "I think". I also have configured sendmail to work with mailman. I followed the directions by David Champion to integrate these two applications. I can telnet and my sendmail server seems to be responding fine as well as I can create email lists in the mailman web interface.
>
> Im confused at this point from the directions. I do not understand how mailman interacts with sendmail. I do not have anything in my virtusertable and my mm-handler is default. I have compiled my mailman.mc as sendmail.cf and put it in the "working dir". How does mailman create the sendmail users or does it use an alias for all of the lists?
>
> All I get is unknown user when I try to send to my lists.
>
> Any help would be great

Did you add the list aliases to the Sendmail alias file?

If you did, did you run newaliases?

I can't recall if you need to restart Sendmail for the new aliases to
take effect, but I always do, so did you restart Sendmail?

-- 
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Aug  1 16:27:43 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 07:27:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing
In-Reply-To: <A228CEC350D4DD4B97BC9F2F7073BA9C011A798E@rbkmbx01.johncom.johnnic.dom>
Message-ID: <PC176020070801072743053164565ede@msapiro>

Trevor Dodds wrote:
>
>The problem is that on the 25 July I had 2000 users accounts set to
>disabled as they reached the threshold of 3.0 warning emails were sent
>out. Nothing has happened since no second warning message also the
>accounts haven't been unsubscribed. 


Once delivery is disabled by bounce, the rest of the process depends on
Mailman's cron jobs, specifically cron/disabled. Are these being run?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From melick.andy at ncocc.k12.oh.us  Wed Aug  1 16:26:54 2007
From: melick.andy at ncocc.k12.oh.us (Melick Andy)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 10:26:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 550 User Unknown when trying to post to
	mailman/sendmail list
References: <04817796C25A0A48BC3A659D1ADB64630486494A@NCOLV01VS1.ncocc-k12.org>
	<e04a6c920708010717m464b4843p2ea2f1f33d3223c1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <04817796C25A0A48BC3A659D1ADB64630486494C@NCOLV01VS1.ncocc-k12.org>

Bryan,
 
I didn't see anything like this in the mailman directions about creating an alias file. I do not have a alias file do I need to create one? Can you provide me with an example of an entry?
 
How do I run newaliases?
 
Thanks,
 
Andy
 
 

________________________________

From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:carbonnb at gmail.com]
Sent: Wed 8/1/2007 10:17 AM
To: Melick Andy
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] 550 User Unknown when trying to post to mailman/sendmail list



On 8/1/07, Melick Andy <melick.andy at ncocc.k12.oh.us> wrote:

> I setup mailman without any issues "I think". I also have configured sendmail to work with mailman. I followed the directions by David Champion to integrate these two applications. I can telnet and my sendmail server seems to be responding fine as well as I can create email lists in the mailman web interface.
>
> Im confused at this point from the directions. I do not understand how mailman interacts with sendmail. I do not have anything in my virtusertable and my mm-handler is default. I have compiled my mailman.mc as sendmail.cf and put it in the "working dir". How does mailman create the sendmail users or does it use an alias for all of the lists?
>
> All I get is unknown user when I try to send to my lists.
>
> Any help would be great

Did you add the list aliases to the Sendmail alias file?

If you did, did you run newaliases?

I can't recall if you need to restart Sendmail for the new aliases to
take effect, but I always do, so did you restart Sendmail?

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Aug  1 16:33:49 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 07:33:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 550 User Unknown when trying to post
	tomailman/sendmail list
In-Reply-To: <04817796C25A0A48BC3A659D1ADB64630486494C@NCOLV01VS1.ncocc-k12.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602007080107334908750b49db1c@msapiro>

Melick Andy wrote:
> 
>I didn't see anything like this in the mailman directions about creating an alias file. I do not have a alias file do I need to create one? Can you provide me with an example of an entry?
> 
>How do I run newaliases?


These don't apply with mm-handler.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cengao at gmail.com  Wed Aug  1 16:59:49 2007
From: cengao at gmail.com (Cen Gao)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 10:59:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] web interface bug after restore mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007080107164804688d268224@msapiro>
References: <e5add1ba0707312114v16ce8af7w4d2dd9f8b00304a5@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602007080107164804688d268224@msapiro>
Message-ID: <e5add1ba0708010759u6d69c085jb43b144134445035@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark:
thanks again for your help

On 8/1/07, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Cen Gao wrote:
> >
> >Traceback:
> >
> >
> >Traceback (most recent call last):
> >  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman//scripts/driver", line 82, in run_main
> >immediate=1)
> >  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman//Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py",
> >line 52, in __init__
> >    Logger.__init__(self, category, nofail, immediate)
> >  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman//Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 50, in __init__
> >    self.__get_f()
> >  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman//Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 68, in __get_f
> >    1)
> >  File "/System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3/lib/python2.3/codecs.py",
> >line 566, in open
> >    file = __builtin__.open(filename, mode, buffering)
> >IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/bin/mailman/logs/error'
> <snip>
> >
> >
> >FYI, the log directory and even all the mailman directory is owned by
> >mailman:mailman
>
>
> The web server cannot write the error log. Are all the wrappers in
> $mailman/cgi-bin/ group mailman and do they all have the SETGID bit
> set?
>
> E.g., -rwxr-sr-x xxxx mailman
>

Yes, all the wrappers in cgi-bin have -rwxr-sr-x mailman:mailman.
Does this bug come out just because of the webserver cannot write error logs?
It seems that everything in the logs/ directory has been written
correctly. (smtp,post,etc.) Ever the error log, if I mistakenly type
in bin/mailmanctl without any argument,this action was immediately
written this in the error log


>
> If this is OK, I seem to recall some Apple issue mentioned on this list
> a couple of years ago. Search the archives.
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.018.htp>
>
>
> Was there anything else on the page before this about the initial
> problem that it was trying to write to the error log?
>

no, I paste every line in the trackback & python informtaion sections here.

And the weird thing is mailman works prefectly well even yesterday
morning on exactly the same machine. Then I backup it, reinstall the
OS, copy it back, Set the httpd and cron. Now the mailman works but
just the web interface down.I carefully checked every singe directory
to make sure the file owner and privilege are exactly the same as
before.
I really have no clue here.


>
> >And in /logs/error , it says
> >
> >
> >Aug 01 00:02:04 2007 (432) Uncaught runner exception: multipart message with
> > no defined boundary
> >Aug 01 00:02:04 2007 (432) Traceback (most recent call last):
> >  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman//Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
> >    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
> >  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman//Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 164, in dequ
> >eue
> >    msg = email.message_from_string(msg, Message.Message)
> >  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init__.py", line 51, in message
> >_from_string
> >    return Parser(_class, strict=strict).parsestr(s)
> >  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
> >    return self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
> >  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
> >    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
> >  File "/usr/local/bin/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 246, in _parsebo
> >dy
> >    raise Errors.BoundaryError(
> >BoundaryError: multipart message with no defined boundary
> >Aug 01 00:02:04 2007 (432) Ignoring unparseable message: 1181090435.8718021+ee06
> >64d951288e0b7e6fb4b4e2b0efdc18362709
>
>
> This error is from an incoming post that is unparseable - almost
> certainly spam. The message was discarded.
>
>
Yeah, checked the pervious error log, it seems those same errors have
been written all the time even when mailman works well. So I don't
think that will cause a problem either.

> >and this error log has only been written twice since I restored this
> >directory, although I've accessed the web page tons of times.
>
>
> The web server can't write the error log.
>
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From melick.andy at ncocc.k12.oh.us  Wed Aug  1 17:05:12 2007
From: melick.andy at ncocc.k12.oh.us (Melick Andy)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 11:05:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 550 User Unknown when trying to post
	tomailman/sendmail list
References: <PC17602007080107334908750b49db1c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <04817796C25A0A48BC3A659D1ADB646304864955@NCOLV01VS1.ncocc-k12.org>

I added an entry to virtusertable and now I get this error when trying to send messages to my list. Before I was getting user doesn't exist. Mailman is a subdomain on my domain. I did this from looking at someone else example, but not certain if its right.
 
my virtusertable:
mailman.domain.com    mailman at mailman.domain.com
 
<#5.0.0 smtp;554 5.0.0 rewrite: excessive recursion (max 50), ruleset canonify> 

________________________________

From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
Sent: Wed 8/1/2007 10:33 AM
To: Melick Andy; Bryan Carbonnell
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] 550 User Unknown when trying to post tomailman/sendmail list



Melick Andy wrote:
>
>I didn't see anything like this in the mailman directions about creating an alias file. I do not have a alias file do I need to create one? Can you provide me with an example of an entry?
>
>How do I run newaliases?


These don't apply with mm-handler.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From cengao at gmail.com  Wed Aug  1 17:16:52 2007
From: cengao at gmail.com (Cen Gao)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 11:16:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] web interface bug after restore mailman
In-Reply-To: <e5add1ba0708010759u6d69c085jb43b144134445035@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e5add1ba0707312114v16ce8af7w4d2dd9f8b00304a5@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602007080107164804688d268224@msapiro>
	<e5add1ba0708010759u6d69c085jb43b144134445035@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e5add1ba0708010816w463a1874ma0ad7825ca22f224@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark:

Thanks for your help. Never mind, now it works
I simply remove the log file and let mailman regenerate it, just as
you advised in a previous email on this list.
Now the owner is www instead of mailman, and the web interface is back online.
I thought it might be the group +w thing that cause www user cannot
write to error log.
Sorry that I should check it more carefully.


Thanks

Cen

From jon at greenolivetree.net  Wed Aug  1 15:51:27 2007
From: jon at greenolivetree.net (Jon Berry)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 09:51:27 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stuck Notifications
Message-ID: <026701c7d443$0eaee9f0$2c0cbdd0$@net>

I have a mailing list that every day sends me reminders that there are
messages awaiting moderation, however, when I go to the admin area, there
are no messages shown.

 

I have even removed and replaced the list.

 

Anyone know how to get rid of these inaccurate daily notices?

 

 

Jon Berry

Green Olive Tree

 


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Aug  1 20:10:34 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 13:10:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the received time on an outgoing
 authorized email message?
In-Reply-To: <46B0389F.3080607@sgul.ac.uk>
References: <46B0389F.3080607@sgul.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <p06240800c2d67ca58d73@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/1/07, Paul Key wrote:

>  When authorizing a moderated list posting is it possible to change the
>  date/time on the outgoing authorized list message to the time it was
>  approved instead of the message showing the time it was first received
>  by mailman?

I'm not aware of any ability to do this with Mailman, although there 
are aspects of the moderation interface that I don't use.  You might 
be able to make changes to the message, re-submit the message as the 
originator, and then go through the moderation process again.

Other than that, I don't see any obvious solution to this problem 
that doesn't involve writing custom code.  However, you should check 
the Mailman patches page on SourceForge to see if anyone else has had 
this problem and created a suggested solution.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Aug  1 20:16:27 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 13:16:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible to filter what is archived?
In-Reply-To: <46B06850.4050102@jennic.com>
References: <46B06850.4050102@jennic.com>
Message-ID: <p06240802c2d67e31ea48@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/1/07, Mike Peachey wrote:

>  What I would like to do is filter what gets archived so that if a
>  message originates in mailman (ie from an umbrella list) it doesn't get
>  archived.

If you write some custom code and put that into the appropriate 
handler, or you write your own custom handler, it should not be 
difficult to achieve what you're looking for.  Check the Mailman 
patches page at SourceForge, just in case someone has already done 
the same sort of thing.

Other than that, I am not personally aware of any obvious ways to 
achieve your goal.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Aug  1 20:15:08 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 13:15:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman refusing to stop/start with errors PID
 unreadable
In-Reply-To: <46B052C5.8545.1A114423@andrew.cnet.org>
References: <46B052C5.8545.1A114423@andrew.cnet.org>
Message-ID: <p06240801c2d67d31ae2b@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/1/07, Andrew Steele wrote:

>  We are currently in the process of moving our mailing lists to a new
>  virtual server.  The new server is using Webmin/Virtualmin 'control
>  panel'.

Unfortunately, when you incorporate other packages into the mix, it's 
difficult for us to tell what problems might be caused by what parts 
of the system.

>  Our only solution, so far, has been to remove and reinstall Mailman.
>  This is OK whilst we are setting everything up but will not be adequate
>  once we 'go live'.

Looking at what you've given us so far, it's hard to tell but I'm 
wondering if maybe you don't have two separate and competing 
installations of Mailman on this machine?  Perhaps one that expects 
things to be in one set of locations, and one that expects things to 
be in a different set of locations.

At least one of these installations appears to be a binary package 
that was created by your OS vendor or someone else not associated 
with the Mailman project, so they may be better suited to answering 
your questions.

>  Can anyone offer a solution?  It isn't clear what is triggering this
>  occurrence... :-(
>
>  Any insight and advice gratefully received.

Unfortunately, you're using a lot of other software that we are not 
generally familiar with, and from our perspective we can't think of 
anything that might cause these problems from within our code, but of 
course we can't be 100% certain.

You really need to find someone who has deep knowledge of those other 
bits of code, as well as knowledge of how those interface to Mailman.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Aug  1 20:18:49 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 13:18:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing
In-Reply-To: <A228CEC350D4DD4B97BC9F2F7073BA9C011A798E@rbkmbx01.johncom.johnnic.dom>
References: <A228CEC350D4DD4B97BC9F2F7073BA9C011A798E@rbkmbx01.johncom.johnnic.dom>
Message-ID: <p06240803c2d67e9902a9@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/1/07, Trevor Dodds wrote:

>  Is there anything I can check to see why this process is not working?

Check your queue runners to see if they're working.  It's not 
directly related to what you're talking about, but there's a good set 
of troubleshooting suggestions in FAQ 4.78 that should be mostly 
applicable to your situation.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Aug  1 20:21:16 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 13:21:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stuck Notifications
In-Reply-To: <026701c7d443$0eaee9f0$2c0cbdd0$@net>
References: <026701c7d443$0eaee9f0$2c0cbdd0$@net>
Message-ID: <p06240804c2d67f7335c0@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/1/07, Jon Berry wrote:

>  I have a mailing list that every day sends me reminders that there are
>  messages awaiting moderation, however, when I go to the admin area, there
>  are no messages shown.

Did you read FAQ 3.38?

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From fbsdolot at cit.ru  Wed Aug  1 23:48:08 2007
From: fbsdolot at cit.ru (Geo)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 01:48:08 +0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fw: problem in Makefile for mailman
Message-ID: <053e01c7d485$a5f36880$e50010ac@gkt>




Mailman  Makefile contains:
 ---------------------------------- 
 .if defined(WITH_SENDMAIL)
 MAIL_GID?=       mailnull
 .endif
 ------------------------------------ 
 But after installation (FreeBSD 6.2, /usr/ports/mail/mailman) when I send
 any message
 to mailman list I receive the error:
 -----Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mailwrapper script to be
 executed as group "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail
 script as group "mailnull".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script
 as group "mailman", or re-run configure, providing the command line option
 `--with-mail-gid=mailnull'.--------------
 What (and how!) can I do to set MAIL_GID= mailnull?

 If I understand I'll describe this in detail for mailman users!


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug  2 05:01:27 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 20:01:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the received time on an
	outgoingauthorized email message?
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c2d67ca58d73@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708012001270843e5061a46@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>On 8/1/07, Paul Key wrote:
>
>>  When authorizing a moderated list posting is it possible to change the
>>  date/time on the outgoing authorized list message to the time it was
>>  approved instead of the message showing the time it was first received
>>  by mailman?
>
>I'm not aware of any ability to do this with Mailman, although there 
>are aspects of the moderation interface that I don't use.  You might 
>be able to make changes to the message, re-submit the message as the 
>originator, and then go through the moderation process again.


See FAQ at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.009.htp>
for more on this.


>Other than that, I don't see any obvious solution to this problem 
>that doesn't involve writing custom code.


Correct, however mailman does currently add an X-Mailman-Approved-At:
header to the approved post with the local time of approval. For some
purposes at least, this might suffice (now that you know it's there).

You could also modify the code in Mailman/ListAdmin.py that adds this
header to mung the Date: header instead if that's really important,
but my opinion is the poster's original date should be preserved.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug  2 05:07:53 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 20:07:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible to filter what is archived?
In-Reply-To: <46B06850.4050102@jennic.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708012007530578e5061957@msapiro>

Mike Peachey wrote:
>
>What I would like to do is filter what gets archived so that if a 
>message originates in mailman (ie from an umbrella list) it doesn't get 
>archived.


I'm pretty sure this isn't what you're asking for, but you could just
turn off archiving on all the umbrella lists so the posts are only
archived in the 'final' lists.

I know this results in duplicate archived messages for different
'final' lists, but if I'm a member of listx, I want to see listx posts
in listx's archive regardless of whether they came directly or via one
or more umbrellas.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug  2 05:23:41 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 20:23:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with archives and escaping of "From"
In-Reply-To: <46B07362.1010201@freecharity.org.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708012023410000c9fab4c9@msapiro>

James Davis wrote:

>Running mailman 2.1.9-7 on Debian 4.0.
>
>The archive for one of my lists played up today and two extra entries
>appeared containing only the tail end of a seperate post. It turns out
>that the archive software got confused when it came across a line in the
>body that started "From" and had been properly escaped to ">From" in the
>mbox file.
>
>It treated that as the start of the e-mail. Deleting the ">" appears to
>unconfused the archive software and the messages appeared as they
>should. Am I getting my head in a twist, shouldn't the behavior have
>been the other way around?


I'm just agreeing with you that the above seems backwards.

The archiver 'stringifies' the message both for the .mbox file and for
the subsequent archiving in the pipermail archive. The conversion of
an email message object to a string will always escape any "From_"
lines in the body with ">". The subsequent archiver should not
consider any ">From_" body lines as message separators.

I have no idea what's going on in the above scenario.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug  2 05:33:22 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 20:33:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stuck Notifications
In-Reply-To: <026701c7d443$0eaee9f0$2c0cbdd0$@net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708012033220390d8d3327c@msapiro>

Jon Berry wrote

>I have a mailing list that every day sends me reminders that there are
>messages awaiting moderation, however, when I go to the admin area, there
>are no messages shown.


Unless this is the "-1 requests" of FAQ 3.38, and I doubt that it is,
in every one of these occurrences for which a resolution has been
reported, the problem is that there is a second set of Mailman cron
jobs (or maybe the only set of Mailman cron jobs) that are pointing to
a different (old, test, whatever) Mailman installation.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug  2 05:40:15 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 20:40:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] web interface bug after restore mailman
In-Reply-To: <e5add1ba0708010816w463a1874ma0ad7825ca22f224@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007080120401502658e9f2918@msapiro>

Cen Gao wrote:
>
>Thanks for your help. Never mind, now it works
>I simply remove the log file and let mailman regenerate it, just as
>you advised in a previous email on this list.
>Now the owner is www instead of mailman, and the web interface is back online.


This is a workaround. It is not the proper fix for the underlying
problem. The log files should not need to be owned by the web server
user because the wrappers are group mailman and SETGID, y the time the
web server wants to write a log, et should be executing with effective
GID 'mailman' and the logs should be group mailman and group writable.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Thu Aug  2 05:04:38 2007
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 15:04:38 +1200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages take over an hour to pass through mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200708012001270843e5061a46@msapiro>
Message-ID: <EC33A0DA57F53C448E5C9452CC58F57C02912F4D@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

I am trying to determine why emails to lists sometimes take well in
excess of an hour....sometimes 4....

Is there anyway to determine where the issue lies?

regards

Steven Jones
Senior  Linux/Unix/San System Administrator
APG -Technology Integration Team
Victoria University of Wellington
Phone: +64 4 463 6272

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug  2 06:00:28 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 21:00:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] web interface bug after restore mailman
In-Reply-To: <e5add1ba0708010759u6d69c085jb43b144134445035@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708012100280781446b2249@msapiro>

Cen Gao wrote:
>
>Yes, all the wrappers in cgi-bin have -rwxr-sr-x mailman:mailman.
>Does this bug come out just because of the webserver cannot write error logs?


No. The original error is something else which may or may not have
anything to do with log files, but then scripts/driver attempts to log
the error and can't write the error log, and this is the traceback.


>It seems that everything in the logs/ directory has been written
>correctly. (smtp,post,etc.) Ever the error log, if I mistakenly type
>in bin/mailmanctl without any argument,this action was immediately
>written this in the error log


That's because all the log entries you mention are written by
mailmanctl or qrunners which presumably are executing as group
mailman. It is only the web server that can't write the log(s).

>>
>> If this is OK, I seem to recall some Apple issue mentioned on this list
>> a couple of years ago. Search the archives.
>> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.018.htp>


Is this Max OS X Server with Apple's mailman or is it your own Mailman
installed from source? If the former, item 8) in
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-July/038388.html>
might be of interest.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Aug  2 06:03:50 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 23:03:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages take over an hour to pass through
 mailman
In-Reply-To: <EC33A0DA57F53C448E5C9452CC58F57C02912F4D@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <EC33A0DA57F53C448E5C9452CC58F57C02912F4D@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <p06240802c2d707cf33a0@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/2/07, Steven Jones wrote:

>  I am trying to determine why emails to lists sometimes take well in
>  excess of an hour....sometimes 4....
>
>  Is there anyway to determine where the issue lies?

Look at the logs.  Correlate the message-ids in the MTA logs 
(sendmail, postfix, whatever) with the message-ids in the Mailman 
logs (presumably in /usr/local/mailman/logs, or elsewhere as 
appropriate for your installation), and then do the same for the 
outbound traffic (going back to the MTA logs with the ids of the 
messages as they are generated by Mailman).

That's about the only way I know of.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug  2 06:07:34 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 21:07:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] web interface bug after restore mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007080120401502658e9f2918@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC176020070801210734057826ba2904@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>This is a workaround. It is not the proper fix for the underlying
>problem. The log files should not need to be owned by the web server
>user because the wrappers are group mailman and SETGID, y the time the
>web server wants to write a log, et should be executing with effective
>GID 'mailman' and the logs should be group mailman and group writable.


Sorry, part of that was a bit garbled. It should say "... at the time
the web server wants to write a log, it should be executing ..."

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug  2 06:18:52 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 21:18:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fw: problem in Makefile for mailman
In-Reply-To: <053e01c7d485$a5f36880$e50010ac@gkt>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708012118520296c9fab5fc@msapiro>

Geo wrote:
>
>Mailman  Makefile contains:
> ---------------------------------- 
> .if defined(WITH_SENDMAIL)
> MAIL_GID?=       mailnull
> .endif
> ------------------------------------ 


This is not our Makefile. I can only guess that it is a FreeBSD port
Makefile.


> But after installation (FreeBSD 6.2, /usr/ports/mail/mailman) when I send
> any message
> to mailman list I receive the error:
> -----Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mailwrapper script to be
> executed as group "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail
> script as group "mailnull".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script
> as group "mailman", or re-run configure, providing the command line option
> `--with-mail-gid=mailnull'.--------------
> What (and how!) can I do to set MAIL_GID= mailnull?
>
> If I understand I'll describe this in detail for mailman users!


I answered this question as best as I could a few days ago. The answer
is at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-July/057812.html>.
If you have questions about my answer, please be specific as to what
they are.

Otherwise, this is a FreeBSD issue and you might have better luck
persuing it using FreeBSD resources.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug  2 06:25:07 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 21:25:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages take over an hour to pass
	throughmailman
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c2d707cf33a0@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708012125070125c9fab524@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>On 8/2/07, Steven Jones wrote:
>
>>  I am trying to determine why emails to lists sometimes take well in
>>  excess of an hour....sometimes 4....
>>
>>  Is there anyway to determine where the issue lies?
>
>Look at the logs.  Correlate the message-ids in the MTA logs 
>(sendmail, postfix, whatever) with the message-ids in the Mailman 
>logs (presumably in /usr/local/mailman/logs, or elsewhere as 
>appropriate for your installation), and then do the same for the 
>outbound traffic (going back to the MTA logs with the ids of the 
>messages as they are generated by Mailman).
>
>That's about the only way I know of.


Also see
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-July/057755.html>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug  2 06:39:21 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 21:39:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 550 User Unknown when trying to post
	tomailman/sendmail list
In-Reply-To: <04817796C25A0A48BC3A659D1ADB646304864955@NCOLV01VS1.ncocc-k12.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708012139210890c9fab82f@msapiro>

Melick Andy wrote:
>
>I added an entry to virtusertable and now I get this error when trying
>to send messages to my list. Before I was getting user doesn't exist.
>Mailman is a subdomain on my domain. I did this from looking at someone
>else example, but not certain if its right.
>
>my virtusertable:
>mailman.domain.com    mailman at mailman.domain.com
>=20
><#5.0.0 smtp;554 5.0.0 rewrite: excessive recursion (max 50), ruleset canonify>


All I know about mm-handler is what I read in README.mm-handler. I know
even less about Sendmail. This is contributed software provided as-is
without support be the Mailman project.

See the README file in the contrib directory.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Thu Aug  2 06:39:34 2007
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 16:39:34 +1200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages take over an hour to pass
	throughmailman
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200708012125070125c9fab524@msapiro>
Message-ID: <EC33A0DA57F53C448E5C9452CC58F57C02912F53@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Thanks to both, I don't think its DNS as the mailman server is
smarthost'd in sendmail to go to a outgoing smtp server....so why it
would do dns lookups I don't know...

regards

Steven Jones
Senior  Linux/Unix/San System Administrator
APG -Technology Integration Team
Victoria University of Wellington
Phone: +64 4 463 6272 Mobile: +64 27 563 6272 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 2 August 2007 4:25 p.m.
To: Brad Knowles; Steven Jones; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Messages take over an hour to pass
throughmailman

Brad Knowles wrote:

>On 8/2/07, Steven Jones wrote:
>
>>  I am trying to determine why emails to lists sometimes take well in
>>  excess of an hour....sometimes 4....
>>
>>  Is there anyway to determine where the issue lies?
>
>Look at the logs.  Correlate the message-ids in the MTA logs 
>(sendmail, postfix, whatever) with the message-ids in the Mailman 
>logs (presumably in /usr/local/mailman/logs, or elsewhere as 
>appropriate for your installation), and then do the same for the 
>outbound traffic (going back to the MTA logs with the ids of the 
>messages as they are generated by Mailman).
>
>That's about the only way I know of.


Also see
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-July/057755.html>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Aug  2 06:56:06 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 23:56:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages take over an hour to pass
 throughmailman
In-Reply-To: <EC33A0DA57F53C448E5C9452CC58F57C02912F53@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <EC33A0DA57F53C448E5C9452CC58F57C02912F53@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <p06240800c2d7141c15b6@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/2/07, Steven Jones wrote:

>  Thanks to both, I don't think its DNS as the mailman server is
>  smarthost'd in sendmail to go to a outgoing smtp server....so why it
>  would do dns lookups I don't know...

It all depends on the MTA configuration of whatever machine Mailman 
is connecting to port 25 and doing the initial delivery.  That's the 
machine you need to check.  As far as this is concerned, there's 
nothing within Mailman itself that you can check or fix -- this is an 
MTA issue instead.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From cengao at gmail.com  Thu Aug  2 07:12:56 2007
From: cengao at gmail.com (Cen Gao)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 01:12:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] web interface bug after restore mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070801210734057826ba2904@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007080120401502658e9f2918@msapiro>
	<PC176020070801210734057826ba2904@msapiro>
Message-ID: <e5add1ba0708012212jb0ba0eeic1f245ed3a236665@mail.gmail.com>

thanks mark.
I'll look into it and see if any other problem come around in the future.
My mailman is complied from the source,since my OS X is not a server version.
So I should be on the same boat as most of you guys .:) I'll keep you updated.

Thanks again.

Cen

On 8/2/07, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >
> >This is a workaround. It is not the proper fix for the underlying
> >problem. The log files should not need to be owned by the web server
> >user because the wrappers are group mailman and SETGID, y the time the
> >web server wants to write a log, et should be executing with effective
> >GID 'mailman' and the logs should be group mailman and group writable.
>
>
> Sorry, part of that was a bit garbled. It should say "... at the time
> the web server wants to write a log, it should be executing ..."
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From mdale at geniusmoon.com.au  Thu Aug  2 07:45:09 2007
From: mdale at geniusmoon.com.au (Mark Dale)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 15:45:09 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin access for list creator
Message-ID: <46B16F65.2060101@geniusmoon.com.au>


Hello Mailman Users

Is there a way for a list-creator to access the admin section of 
different lists?

My password allows me to create lists, but not access the admin section 
of various lists whose administrators have their own passwords.

Thanks in advance for any clues.

regards
Mark Dale



  --------------------------------------
     Mark Dale

         phone: 02  6112 8632
        mobile:     0403 831 748
         email: mdale at geniusmoon.com.au

  --------------------------------------




From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug  2 08:03:39 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2007 23:03:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin access for list creator
In-Reply-To: <46B16F65.2060101@geniusmoon.com.au>
Message-ID: <PC176020070801230339020323073ab2@msapiro>

Mark Dale wrote:
>
>Is there a way for a list-creator to access the admin section of 
>different lists?


Only with the list's admin password or the Mailman site password. The
list-creator password conveys no additional authority.

Of course, when you create a list, you know the admin password because
you specified it, but after you turn the list over to an admin who
changes the password, you either need that password or the site
password to admin the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From andrew at cnet.org  Thu Aug  2 09:24:52 2007
From: andrew at cnet.org (Andrew Steele)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 08:24:52 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman refusing to stop/start with errors PID
	unreadable
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c2d67d31ae2b@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <46B052C5.8545.1A114423@andrew.cnet.org>,
	<p06240801c2d67d31ae2b@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <46B194D4.16584.1A02D5@andrew.cnet.org>

On 1 Aug 2007 at 13:15, Brad Knowles wrote:

> Unfortunately, you're using a lot of other software that we are not
> generally familiar with, and from our perspective we can't think of
> anything that might cause these problems from within our code, but of
> course we can't be 100% certain. 
> 
> You really need to find someone who has deep knowledge of those other
> bits of code, as well as knowledge of how those interface to Mailman. 

Hi Brad!

Thanks for your reply.  I suppose I was hoping that one or other of the 
wiser list members might be able to say: "That issue is typically caused 
by such and such and the normal method of resolving is to do so and 
so..."

Even agreement that reinstalling Mailman is the only option would help - 
slightly :-)

But you're right... The Webmin/Virtualmin factor does make it a slightly 
more complex mix.

If I discover anything through the other enquiries I've made I'll post 
back here and, in the meantime, if anyone has inspiration then I'm all 
ears.

Andrew

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Aug  2 09:30:33 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 02:30:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin access for list creator
In-Reply-To: <46B16F65.2060101@geniusmoon.com.au>
References: <46B16F65.2060101@geniusmoon.com.au>
Message-ID: <551B6A55-EAF8-4CE8-8703-52899035F633@shub-internet.org>

The site admin password gives you full web admin access, at least as  
far as Mailman goes. You can access any list you want -- this is the  
Mailman equivalent of root password, and should be treated with great  
care.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-Internet.org>

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 2, 2007, at 12:45 AM, Mark Dale <mdale at geniusmoon.com.au> wrote:

>
> Hello Mailman Users
>
> Is there a way for a list-creator to access the admin section of
> different lists?
>
> My password allows me to create lists, but not access the admin  
> section
> of various lists whose administrators have their own passwords.
>
> Thanks in advance for any clues.
>
> regards
> Mark Dale
>
>
>
>  --------------------------------------
>     Mark Dale
>
>         phone: 02  6112 8632
>        mobile:     0403 831 748
>         email: mdale at geniusmoon.com.au
>
>  --------------------------------------
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brad%40shub-internet.org
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

From andrew at cnet.org  Thu Aug  2 09:41:17 2007
From: andrew at cnet.org (Andrew Steele)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 08:41:17 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] URL to obtain List overview page...
Message-ID: <46B198AD.2363.2906FE@andrew.cnet.org>

We are experimenting with hosting our Mailman installation alongside the 
Webmin/Virtualmin control panel.

By default this presumes that list management will take place within the 
Virtualmin area but this 'hides' the normal Mailman URLs for viewing 
lists etc etc.

Mostly these can be recovered by discovering the appropriate new aliases 
to create.

However, there is one URL that I cannot figure out...  Viewing the 
standard List Overview for a domain.  In the traditional approach 

http://domain/mailman/listinfo/list-name takes a user to the user 
preferences and information screen for the list called list-name at doman

Equally http://domain/mailman/listinfo/ provides the standard rosta of 
lists at domain.

The URL we have for the first situation is in the form: 
https://domain/virtualmin-mailman/unauthenticated/listinfo.cgi/list-name

This works just fine.

https://domain/virtualmin-mailman/unauthenticated/listinfo.cgi might be 
expected to produce the rosta of lists but does not do so.  

However, put a non-existent list name at the end as in 
.../unauthenticated/listinfo.cgi/noexist-list and the lists of lists 
appears (but with a brief message saying the nonexistent list does not 
exist).

Does anyone know what, if any, argument can go after listinfo.cgi to 
generate the list of lists?

The same issue with the admin list or lists.

Andrew

From miguel8883 at gmail.com  Thu Aug  2 09:48:03 2007
From: miguel8883 at gmail.com (miguel8883)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 00:48:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I don't get the message saying that your message is
 pending to be approved
Message-ID: <11959879.post@talk.nabble.com>


Hello.

I've got a problem with my mailman list.

When I send a message to the list I usually got a mail saying that I had a
message pending to be approved and that I had to go to a url to accept this
message. Now, I don't get this message, but if I go through the
administrator's list menu I can accept (or reject or discard) the delivery
and it's been delivered to all the recipients.

So, do you know how could I mend it? Is there any process that should be
running or something like that?

Thank you very much

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/I-don%27t-get-the-message-saying-that-your-message-is-pending-to-be-approved-tf4204626.html#a11959879
Sent from the Mailman - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


From infayouthuganda at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  2 09:50:30 2007
From: infayouthuganda at yahoo.com (infa youth)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 00:50:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] inqury
Message-ID: <51442.80881.qm@web37007.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

hulo

l was asking to know if there similar codes in php 
and mysql that l acn implement the mailing list in and if any please post for me 
one or give me a link and the other thing is that l have some codes in realtion 
to the mailing list creation could add for me more functionality so that every 
member subscribed to aminling list acn be able to communicate to each 
other

thanks 

hope to hear from you

infayouthuganda at yahoo.com




      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect.  Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 

From infayouthuganda at yahoo.com  Thu Aug  2 09:50:30 2007
From: infayouthuganda at yahoo.com (infa youth)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 00:50:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] inqury
Message-ID: <51442.80881.qm@web37007.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

hulo

l was asking to know if there similar codes in php 
and mysql that l acn implement the mailing list in and if any please post for me 
one or give me a link and the other thing is that l have some codes in realtion 
to the mailing list creation could add for me more functionality so that every 
member subscribed to aminling list acn be able to communicate to each 
other

thanks 

hope to hear from you

infayouthuganda at yahoo.com




      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect.  Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 

From mike.peachey at jennic.com  Thu Aug  2 10:04:47 2007
From: mike.peachey at jennic.com (Mike Peachey)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 09:04:47 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible to filter what is archived?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200708012007530578e5061957@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200708012007530578e5061957@msapiro>
Message-ID: <46B1901F.30302@jennic.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Mike Peachey wrote:
>> What I would like to do is filter what gets archived so that if a 
>> message originates in mailman (ie from an umbrella list) it doesn't get 
>> archived.
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure this isn't what you're asking for, but you could just
> turn off archiving on all the umbrella lists so the posts are only
> archived in the 'final' lists.
> 
> I know this results in duplicate archived messages for different
> 'final' lists, but if I'm a member of listx, I want to see listx posts
> in listx's archive regardless of whether they came directly or via one
> or more umbrellas.
> 

If only it were that easy, the problem I have is that I have list admins 
complaining to me (and my boss' boss) that their archive is polluted 
with messages from top-level lists and they want their archive to just 
contain messages sent directly to their list.
-- 
Kind Regards,

__________________________________________________

Mike Peachey, IT
Tel: +44 114 281 2655
Fax: +44 114 281 2951
Jennic Ltd, Furnival Street, Sheffield, S1 4QT, UK
Comp Reg No: 3191371 - Registered In England
http://www.jennic.com
__________________________________________________

From Jesus.Olivan at uab.es  Thu Aug  2 10:42:06 2007
From: Jesus.Olivan at uab.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_Oliv=E1n?=)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 10:42:06 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rare problem
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200707131111230875f3f2f142@Notebook>
References: <PC1760200707131111230875f3f2f142@Notebook>
Message-ID: <46B198DE.3080404@uab.es>

Sorry for delay, it was holidays time and today i've returned.

When i try to send a mail with a from like this:

From: test <prova at uab.cat>

It works fine and mail arrived to list.

Problem seems to appear when From line exceeds certain number of 
characters (>50) and contains accents, when it occurs From line splits 
in two, and mail didn't arrive to destiny list. Another problem comes 
when system tries to send returned mail to sender and From line didn't 
exist, then sender never knows that its mail hasd not arrived to list.

Thanks!

Mark Sapiro escribi?:
> Jes?s Oliv?n wrote:
>
>   
>> Yes, patch is installed.
>>
>> Sorry, pattern was *@uab.cat, but we own uab.es too.
>>
>> When message is sent, we receive this response:
>>
>> El missatge adjunt ha estat autom?ticament descartat.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Asunto:
>> tttt
>> De:
>> test12345?6789-12345?6789-12345?6789-12345?6789-12345?6789- <prova at uab.cat>
>>     
>
>
> So it appears that with the patch installed, Mailman is properly
> unfolding and decoding the the folded RFC 2047 encoded From: header in
> the post.
>
>
>   
>> Fecha:
>> Wed, 04 Jul 2007 13:57:02 +0200
>>
>> Para:
>> prova-rest-l at llistes.uab.es
>>     
>
>
> However, I find it very curious that this 'forwarded post' seems to be
> missing the Date:, From:, Subject and To: headers from the original
> post and the User-Agent: header has been changed to 'Agente de
> usuario::'.
>
>
>
> What happens if you attempt to post a message with simply
>
> From: test <prova at uab.cat>
>
> instead of the RFC 2047 encoded and folded From: header?
>
>   


From mdale at geniusmoon.com.au  Thu Aug  2 15:15:52 2007
From: mdale at geniusmoon.com.au (Mark Dale)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 23:15:52 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin access for list creator
In-Reply-To: <551B6A55-EAF8-4CE8-8703-52899035F633@shub-internet.org>
References: <46B16F65.2060101@geniusmoon.com.au>
	<551B6A55-EAF8-4CE8-8703-52899035F633@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <46B1D908.5070106@geniusmoon.com.au>



Thanks. sudo mmsitepass did the trick.

regards
Mark Dale

Brad Knowles wrote:
> The site admin password gives you full web admin access, at least as far 
> as Mailman goes. You can access any list you want -- this is the Mailman 
> equivalent of root password, and should be treated with great care.
> 
> --Brad Knowles <brad at shub-Internet.org>
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Aug 2, 2007, at 12:45 AM, Mark Dale <mdale at geniusmoon.com.au> wrote:
> 
>>
>> Hello Mailman Users
>>
>> Is there a way for a list-creator to access the admin section of
>> different lists?
>>
>> My password allows me to create lists, but not access the admin section
>> of various lists whose administrators have their own passwords.
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any clues.
>>
>> regards
>> Mark Dale
>>
>>
>>
>>  --------------------------------------
>>     Mark Dale
>>
>>         phone: 02  6112 8632
>>        mobile:     0403 831 748
>>         email: mdale at geniusmoon.com.au
>>
>>  --------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list
>> Mailman-Users at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>> Searchable Archives: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe: 
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brad%40shub-internet.org 
>>
>>
>> Security Policy: 
>> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> 
> 

-- 



  --------------------------------------
     Mark Dale

         phone: 02  6112 8632
        mobile:     0403 831 748
         email: mdale at geniusmoon.com.au

  --------------------------------------




From melick.andy at ncocc.k12.oh.us  Thu Aug  2 15:27:06 2007
From: melick.andy at ncocc.k12.oh.us (Melick Andy)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 09:27:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 550 User Unknown when trying to post
	tomailman/sendmail list
References: <PC1760200708012139210890c9fab82f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <04817796C25A0A48BC3A659D1ADB646304864964@NCOLV01VS1.ncocc-k12.org>

Mark,
 
Can you do it another way? I heard talk of setting up aliases? I really only have a few lists that I need setup I don't mind manual intervention.
 
Andy

________________________________

From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
Sent: Thu 8/2/2007 12:39 AM
To: Melick Andy; Bryan Carbonnell
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] 550 User Unknown when trying to post tomailman/sendmail list



Melick Andy wrote:
>
>I added an entry to virtusertable and now I get this error when trying
>to send messages to my list. Before I was getting user doesn't exist.
>Mailman is a subdomain on my domain. I did this from looking at someone
>else example, but not certain if its right.
>
>my virtusertable:
>mailman.domain.com    mailman at mailman.domain.com
>=20
><#5.0.0 smtp;554 5.0.0 rewrite: excessive recursion (max 50), ruleset canonify>


All I know about mm-handler is what I read in README.mm-handler. I know
even less about Sendmail. This is contributed software provided as-is
without support be the Mailman project.

See the README file in the contrib directory.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug  2 16:03:39 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 07:03:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] URL to obtain List overview page...
In-Reply-To: <46B198AD.2363.2906FE@andrew.cnet.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708020703390796e5061a23@msapiro>

Andrew Steele wrote:
>
>https://domain/virtualmin-mailman/unauthenticated/listinfo.cgi might be 
>expected to produce the rosta of lists but does not do so.  


What does it produce?


>However, put a non-existent list name at the end as in 
>.../unauthenticated/listinfo.cgi/noexist-list and the lists of lists 
>appears (but with a brief message saying the nonexistent list does not 
>exist).
>
>Does anyone know what, if any, argument can go after listinfo.cgi to 
>generate the list of lists?


How about just a trailing slash?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug  2 16:10:24 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 07:10:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I don't get the message saying that your
	message ispending to be approved
In-Reply-To: <11959879.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007080207102409534f668831@msapiro>

miguel8883 wrote:
>
>When I send a message to the list I usually got a mail saying that I had a
>message pending to be approved and that I had to go to a url to accept this
>message. Now, I don't get this message, but if I go through the
>administrator's list menu I can accept (or reject or discard) the delivery
>and it's been delivered to all the recipients.
>
>So, do you know how could I mend it? Is there any process that should be
>running or something like that?


There are two possibilities. If VirginRunner is not running, no Mailman
generated messages will be delivered and they will all sit in
qfiles/virgin/ (see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>
for more information).

The other possibility is General Options->admin_immed_notify is set to
'No'.
	

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Marco.DeRossi at roma1.infn.it  Thu Aug  2 16:17:19 2007
From: Marco.DeRossi at roma1.infn.it (Marco De Rossi)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 16:17:19 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman, attachment and digital sign
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0708021616450.14530@login1.roma1.infn.it>

Hello, we have installed "Mailman, the GNU Mailing List Manager" version 
2.1.5
If we send a digital signed e-mail *with attachment* to a list we obtain 
the following message:

   Digital Signature Is Not Valid
   This message includes a digital signature, but the signature is 
   invalid.
   The signature does not match the message content correctly. The message 
   appears to have been altered after the sender signed it. You should not 
   trust the validity of this message until you verify its contents with 
   the sender.

Without attachment, digital sign is OK.

In the past we have had the same problem even send simply digital signed 
e-mail (without attachment), but in the past mailman was used to add a 
message footer in all e-mail.
We have modifed mailman so now it not add the message footer anymore.
Now we still have this problem only when we send digital signed e-mail 
*with attachment*.

Thanks.

   Marco De Rossi

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug  2 16:23:18 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 07:23:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible to filter what is archived?
In-Reply-To: <46B1901F.30302@jennic.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007080207231808434f6687bd@msapiro>

Mike Peachey wrote:
>
>If only it were that easy, the problem I have is that I have list admins 
>complaining to me (and my boss' boss) that their archive is polluted 
>with messages from top-level lists and they want their archive to just 
>contain messages sent directly to their list.



Make a custom handler (see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.067.htp>)
that checks mlist.umbrella_list, and if true add an X-No-Archive:
header to the message. E.g.

def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
    if mlist.umbrella_list:
        msg['X-No-Archive'] = 'Yes'

The handler has to be in the pipeline prior to 'ToArchive'.


The header

X-Archive: No

also works.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug  2 16:39:53 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 07:39:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 550 User Unknown when trying to post
	tomailman/sendmail list
In-Reply-To: <04817796C25A0A48BC3A659D1ADB646304864964@NCOLV01VS1.ncocc-k12.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602007080207395301400225c2c1@msapiro>

Melick Andy wrote:
>Can you do it another way? I heard talk of setting up aliases? I really 
>only have a few lists that I need setup I don't mind manual intervention.

1) Undo everything you did for mm-handler.

2) Be sure that the Defaults.py setting

MTA = 'Manual'

is not overridden in mm_cfg.py (You may have put MTA = None in
mm_cfg.py for mm-handler).

3) Run Mailman's bin/genaliases. This will give you a list of 10
aliases per list. Add these exact aliases to /etc/aliases.

4) Run Sendmail's /usr/bin/newaliases command.

That's it.

After that, each time a list is created or deleted, you will get a
notice of the aliases to be added or deleted in /etc/aliases. Make the
change and run newaliases again.

If you want to automate this process, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.049.htp>,
but if list creation/deletion is rare, it may not be worth it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug  2 16:52:25 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 07:52:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] URL to obtain List overview page...
In-Reply-To: <46B1F7F4.31849.19D3209@andrew.cnet.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602007080207522507960225c535@msapiro>

Andrew Steele wrote:
>
>Thanks for replying...  It simply produces an invalid URL message within 
>the Webmin/Virtualmin interface as if it is looking for an undeclared 
>variable - which it finds if the trailing list name is provided.


I looked at your examples.

It seems that the
https://domain/virtualmin-mailman/unauthenticated/listinfo.cgi URI
gets 'errored' in the Webmin/Virtualmin interface and never gets to
Mailman.

I also tried things like

https://domain/virtualmin-mailman/unauthenticated/listinfo.cgi?junk=none

and

https://domain/virtualmin-mailman/unauthenticated/listinfo.cgi/?junk=none

and they don't work either. If you can't convince Webmin/Virtualmin
that https://domain/virtualmin-mailman/unauthenticated/listinfo.cgi
and https://domain/virtualmin-mailman/unauthenticated/listinfo.cgi/
are valid URIs, I think you're stuck. I don't think there's any X that
you can put in
https://domain/virtualmin-mailman/unauthenticated/listinfo.cgi/X that
won't be interpreted by Mailman as a list name.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug  2 17:16:43 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 08:16:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rare problem
In-Reply-To: <46B198DE.3080404@uab.es>
Message-ID: <PC17602007080208164305934f8a4c9c@msapiro>

Jes?s Oliv?n wrote:
>
>When i try to send a mail with a from like this:
>
>From: test <prova at uab.cat>
>
>It works fine and mail arrived to list.
>
>Problem seems to appear when From line exceeds certain number of 
>characters (>50) and contains accents, when it occurs From line splits 
>in two, and mail didn't arrive to destiny list. Another problem comes 
>when system tries to send returned mail to sender and From line didn't 
>exist, then sender never knows that its mail hasd not arrived to list.


Have you installed the patch I gave you in an earlier reply and which
can be found at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20070709/c08e6575/attachment.txt>,
and did you restart mailman (bin/mailmanctl restart) after installing
the patch?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cpz at tuunq.com  Thu Aug  2 17:46:30 2007
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 08:46:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fw: problem in Makefile for mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200708012118520296c9fab5fc@msapiro> from Mark Sapiro at
	"Aug 1, 2007 09:18:52 pm"
Message-ID: <20070802154630.258107AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> This is not our Makefile. I can only guess that it is a FreeBSD port
> Makefile.
> 
> > But after installation (FreeBSD 6.2, /usr/ports/mail/mailman) when I send

Yep, it's a FreeBSD port.  While I run both free and open bsd, I've found
that there are a few things better installed from original source. 
Mailman is one of them.  The only thing that the port really gives is
the uname/group consistent with fbsd standards. You can easily pull that
out of the makefile.

(ISTR that the tcl port lags the actual release a bit, too. Can't think
of the others off hand.)

z!

From runner at winning.com  Thu Aug  2 17:48:21 2007
From: runner at winning.com (runner at winning.com)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 08:48:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating from 1.0 to 2.1.9
Message-ID: <20070802154821.940321F50B1@ws1-2.us4.outblaze.com>

> > Looks like I jumped to a conclusion on the dumpdb script.  The 
> > mailman/bin directory on the old server does not contain a dumpdb 
> > script however, I just realized that it may be due to the fact 
> > that someone may have deleted it and not that there was no such 
> > script for Mailman 1.0.  Will a dumpdb script from a newer 
> > version of Mailman work on the old 1.0 version?
> 
> 
> It appears there was no dumpdb in Mailman 1.0 or 1.1. There is one in
> Mailman 2.0, but I don't know it it will work. You could try it.
> 
> However, even Mailman 1.0 has a withlist which might be useful.
> 
> Here are some other thoughts.
> 
> There's no way to convert the list admin and moderator passwords. See
> the 2.1.9 change_pw for why and what to do about it.
> 
> There's code in Mailman/versions.py that goes back to 1.0. Instead of
> creating new lists in the new installation, you could try just moving
> the old lists/<listname>/config.db, at least for one test to see what
> happens. It might work. It won't solve the password problem, but if it
> works, it should save you a bunch of work.
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

I moved the config.db file from a test list to the new server.  I logged in to the web interface and all the members were there and the settings looked good.  Moving the archives over and rebuilding them even worked.  However, if I try to run dumpdb on the newly migrated list I get this error:

NameError: global name 'DumperSwitchboard' is not defined

Although there are other posts in the mailman-users archives where people saw this problem; there was no resolution.  So it seems that even though the list appears to function properly and the web intercase works, something is not quite right with the config.db file and Mailman version 2.1.9.  It makes me a little nervous to run the migrated lists in production knowing that I can never run dumpdb and I don't know what else might be broken.  I think I will go with my original plan of pre-creating each list on the new server, importing the list member's email addresses and manually setting up the list.  With 150 lists, I think I can do it in a week.

I'd like to try the transfer of config data programatically using withlist but I can't seem to find any comprehensive documentation on the use this command.   There are lots of posts in the archives and on google concerning specific uses of the command but no comprehensive usage instructions in one place.   I'll keep searching.

-- 
We've Got Your Name at http://www.mail.com!
Get a FREE E-mail Account Today - Choose From 100+ Domains


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Thu Aug  2 19:16:54 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 12:16:54 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fw: problem in Makefile for mailman
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'cpz@tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)'
	dated: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 08:46:30 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <200708021716.l72HGsjc002335@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

>Yep, it's a FreeBSD port.  While I run both free and open bsd, I've
>found that there are a few things better installed from original
>source.  Mailman is one of them.

Look at the changes that FreeBSD has made.  You will probably find
some that you do not understand.  I did the same with Ubuntu, and
most of the changes were not documented, so I had no idea why they
were made.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From cwaltham at bowdoin.edu  Thu Aug  2 20:12:29 2007
From: cwaltham at bowdoin.edu (Chris Waltham)
Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2007 14:12:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sanity-checking individual lists for health?
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007072419465505156d73f09a@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007072419465505156d73f09a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <16C3F41F-15E8-4801-ABEC-88F07C700EF2@bowdoin.edu>

On Jul 24, 2007, at 10:46 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Chris Waltham wrote:
>>
>> I have been tasked with moving a Mailman 2.0.12 installation from a
>> Solaris (SPARC) server to a Linux (x86) server. The Linux server will
>> be receiving a copy of Mailman 2.1.9, so obviously I am making the
>> 2.0.x -> 2.1.x jump in there. Also, on Solaris, Mailman lives in /
>> home/mailman but on Linux I will be putting it in /blender/mailman
>> (and thus using move_list to update archives, fix_url, etc.)
>>
>> What makes this migration slightly tricky is that the server hosts
>> around 840 lists. Therefore, going through each list pre- and post-
>> migration by hand would be a little time-consuming for me, so I want
>> to avoid that where possible :-)I noticed that, when doing a "make
>> update" when installing 2.1.9, a couple of lists from 2.0.12 failed
>> the update process and I had to Control-C them for the process to
>> continue. I'm not sure what the exact problem was, hence I'm
>> wondering if there is any kind of check that I can run in a FOR loop
>> to verify a list's integrity. And, yes, I've run check_db and
>> check_perms and neither report problems, this just seems to be a
>> handful of lists out of the 800-odd that seem a little flaky.
>
>
> There is little you can do to verify the integrity of a list other  
> than
> trying to instantiate it which will also update it if necessary (and
> possible). check_perms only checks permissions (and it has a bug
> regarding archives/private). check_db only checks that list data can
> be loaded from lists/<listname>/config.* files. It doesn't sanity
> check the result.
>
> Do you know which lists failed in bin/update (run by make update)? If
> so do these lists have lists/<listname>/config.pck files which are
> converted from the config.db files and indicate the conversion of the
> list data was probably successful. In any case, are there any lists
> that don't have lists/<listname>/config.pck files? These would be the
> problem lists.

One list that failed both "make update" and the below-mentioned  
"config_list" is named "bowsun". Here is a copy of its contents:

drwxrwsr-x    2 mailman mailman   4096 Jul 24 11:03 ./
drwxrwsr-x  844 mailman mailman  65536 Jul 24 11:01 ../
-rwxr-xr--    1 mailman mailman   1692 Jul 30  2003  
admindbpreamble.html*
-rwxr-xr--    1 mailman mailman    357 Jan 19  2001 archives.html*
-rw-rw----    1 root    mailman  15076 Jul 23 15:37 config.db
-rw-rw----    1 mailman mailman  15075 Jun 29 07:03 config.db.last
-rw-rw----    1 root    mailman  12578 Jul 24 11:03 config.pck
-rw-rw----    1 root    mailman  12578 Jul 24 10:51 config.pck.last
-rwxr-xr--    1 mailman mailman    189 Jan 19  2001 handle_opts.html*
-rwxr-xr--    1 mailman mailman   1026 Jan 19  2001 headfoot.html*
-rwxr-xr--    1 mailman mailman   3136 Jan 19  2001 listinfo.html*
-rwxr-xr--    1 mailman mailman   4106 Jan 19  2001 options.html*
-rw-rw-r--    1 root    mailman 443875 Jul 24 08:41 request.pck
-rwxr-xr--    1 mailman mailman   1169 Jan 19  2001 roster.html*
-rwxr-xr--    1 mailman mailman    198 Jan 19  2001 subscribe.html*

I'm not sure how to start troubleshooting that one..?

> One way to do a better sanity check or problem detection on these (or
> even on all) lists is
>
>   bin/config_list -i /dev/null listname
>
> This will attempt to instantiate the list and if it's a 2.0.12 list
> convert the data in config.db and save as config.pck.

Okay great, I'm giving that a try now in the background.

> One bit of advice. Once the lists are all converted, remove the
> config.db and config.db.last files from the lists/<listname>/
> directories. If you don't do this, it is possible that at some future
> time, the config.pck and config.pck.last files could become corrupt
> and cause Mailman to fall back to the then ancient config.db.

Good tip, I'll be sure to use it! One thing I've noticed is a problem  
with genaliases. Going off this URL: http://acd.ucar.edu/~fredrick/ 
linux/mailman/upgrading.html it suggests running "genaliases", saving  
the output to a text file, and merging that with my current /etc/ 
aliases. However, when I run genaliases, it returns no output and no  
errors. Is there a place I should start troubleshooting that from?

Thanks!


Chris



From adamsca at gmail.com  Thu Aug  2 20:58:12 2007
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 11:58:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest not being sent
Message-ID: <27572d930708021158n7a001f21s8b4e2c1e7d355322@mail.gmail.com>

At least a couple (maybe all) of my lists are not sending out the
digest automatically. I can see the digest.mbox file and it is up to
date, but a couple of weeks old. Subscribers who have chosen digest
mode alerted me that they weren't getting messages.

I looked at one list and the threshold is set to 200 KB and daily if
the threshold is not reached.

I know there is a senddigests cron, but how does this actually work,
and what could be the reason that no lists are sending the digest
unless I manually choose that it be sent?

-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Aug  2 23:47:20 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 16:47:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman, attachment and digital sign
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0708021616450.14530@login1.roma1.infn.it>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0708021616450.14530@login1.roma1.infn.it>
Message-ID: <p06240801c2d8001764f6@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/2/07, Marco De Rossi wrote:

>  We have modifed mailman so now it not add the message footer anymore.
>  Now we still have this problem only when we send digital signed e-mail
>  *with attachment*.

I can see two likely possibilities:

	1.  The digital signature is being done against the whole message,
	headers included.  When the message passes through Mailman, some
	headers end up getting changed or added, and the signature is no
	longer valid.

	2.  Mailman is still stripping or changing some of the attachment
	MIME types or filenames, which causes the signature to be invalidated.

Problem is, cryptographic signatures on messages are extremely 
fragile.  If even the slightest thing is changed, the signature is 
likely to be broken.  If you make the signature process more robust, 
then you increase the possibility that an attacker could slip 
something through that would still appear to be correct, but where 
they've actually secretly modified something.

Try turning off all filtering, HTML conversion, etc... within 
Mailman.  See if that "fixes" the signature problem.  If so, then you 
have to decide which is more important -- the signature on some 
messages or the probability that some malware could get through the 
system and sent out to all recipients of the list, because you'd 
turned off the filtering.

Unfortunately, this is a binary decision.  There is no option to 
leave signed messages unfiltered and to apply the filtering rules 
only to unsigned messages.  Even if there were such a method, the 
attackers could get through by simply forging fake signatures that 
look valid.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Aug  2 23:48:28 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 16:48:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest not being sent
In-Reply-To: <27572d930708021158n7a001f21s8b4e2c1e7d355322@mail.gmail.com>
References: <27572d930708021158n7a001f21s8b4e2c1e7d355322@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240802c2d80194be2b@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/2/07, Christopher Adams wrote:

>  I know there is a senddigests cron, but how does this actually work,
>  and what could be the reason that no lists are sending the digest
>  unless I manually choose that it be sent?

Did you search the FAQ wizard on this matter?

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From carconni at earthlink.net  Fri Aug  3 00:14:12 2007
From: carconni at earthlink.net (carconni)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 15:14:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weird problem data format error. Command output
	Mailbox does'nt exist
Message-ID: <1208A387-CC06-4F69-94CA-E248FF15D57C@earthlink.net>

HI,

I have an odd problem.  I have over a hundred lists and all but one  
is working properly.  The initial support call was a complaint that  
the mail server was bouncing back the emails sent to the list  
claiming that there was no such user (list-name).

I thought it was odd, so I rmlist -a and recreated it using newlist.   
I tested the list, mail went to the user and everyone was happy.

Oddly, the mailserver bounced that night (we aren't sure why) but the  
next day I got another call about the same list.  I thought that it  
was a fluke, maybe some weird setting had been reverted when the  
server bounced, so again I removed the list (rmlist but without  
removing the archives) and recreated the list using newlist.  I  
tested the list by sending an email and everyone (except the  
administrator who now had to repopulate the list was happy)

It is day 3.  I got phone call today.  The same list is broken  
again.  All the other lists work fine but this one seems to be  
unrecognized by the system:

Aug  2 13:36:36 mail postfix/smtpd[5008]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from  
sjc.mailserver.com[63.80.14.252]: 550 <qvc- 
requests at mail.mailserver.com>: Recipient address rejected: User  
unknown in local recipient table; from=<carconni at mailserver.com>  
to=<qvc-requests at mail.mailserver.com> proto=ESMTP helo=<[172.16.246.5]>
Aug  2 13:42:02 mail postfix/smtpd[5066]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from  
sjc.mailserver.com[63.80.14.252]: 550 <qvc- 
requests at mail.mailserver.com>: Recipient address rejected: User  
unknown in local recipient table; from=<carconni at mailserver.com>  
to=<qvc-requests at mail.mailserver.com> proto=ESMTP helo=<[172.16.246.5]>
Aug  2 13:45:31 mail postfix/pipe[6401]: 9E219166485D: to=<qvc- 
requests at mailserver.com>, relay=cyrus, delay=0, status=bounced (data  
format error. Command output: qvc-requests: Mailbox does not exist )
Aug  2 13:57:17 corp-admin2 postfix/pipe[7594]: 222591665614: to=<qvc- 
requests at mailserver.com>, relay=cyrus, delay=0, status=bounced (data  
format error. Command output: qvc-requests: Mailbox does not exist )
Aug  2 14:05:45 mail postfix/pipe[7722]: 34A081666003: to=<qvc- 
requests at mailserver.com>, relay=cyrus, delay=0, status=bounced (data  
format error. Command output: qvc-requests: Mailbox does not exist )

I have spent the better part of 6 hours looking for a reason.  I've  
checked permissions, not just with checkperms but manually, step by  
step, directory by directory comparing the broken list to a list that  
is known to be working.


/private/var/mailman/archives/private/qvc-requests/database "other"  
perms must be 000 (fixing)

drwxrwsr-x    3 root     mailman   102 Jun 18 13:30 production
drwxrwsr-x    2 root     mailman    68 Jun 18 13:30 production.mbox
drwxrwsr-x   10 root     mailman   340 Aug  1 11:18 qvc-requests
drwxrwsr-x    3 root     mailman   102 Jul 26 09:02 qvc-requests.mbox


/var/mailman/lists root# ls -l qvc-requests
total 56
-rw-rw----   1 mailman  mailman   3777 Aug  2 11:25 config.pck
-rw-rw----   1 mailman  mailman   3778 Aug  2 11:24 config.pck.last
-rw-rw----   1 mailman  mailman  11089 Aug  1 14:16 digest.mbox
-rw-rw----   1 mailman  mailman    131 Aug  1 10:24 pending.pck
-rw-rw-r--   1 www      mailman     24 Aug  1 11:18 request.pck

/var/mailman/archives/private/qvc-requests root# ls -l
total 160
drwxrwsr-x   10 mailman  mailman    340 Aug  1 14:16 2007-August
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman   2476 Aug  1 14:16 2007-August.txt
drwxrwsr-x   28 mailman  mailman    952 Jul 31 15:08 2007-July
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman  66954 Jul 31 15:08 2007-July.txt
drwxrwsr-x    7 root     mailman    238 Aug  1 11:59 attachments
drwxrwx---   12 mailman  mailman    408 Aug  1 14:16 database
-rw-rw-r--    1 root     mailman   1465 Aug  1 14:16 index.html
-rw-rw----    1 mailman  mailman    892 Aug  1 14:16 pipermail.pck



I've checked the alias file in /var/mailman/data/aliases:   
(Everything looks ok)

# STANZA START: qvc-requests
# CREATED: Wed Aug  1 09:09:12 2007
qvc-requests:             "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman post qvc- 
requests"
qvc-requests-admin:       "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman admin qvc- 
requests"
qvc-requests-bounces:     "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman bounces  
qvc-requests"
qvc-requests-confirm:     "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman confirm  
qvc-requests"
qvc-requests-join:        "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman join qvc- 
requests"
qvc-requests-leave:       "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman leave qvc- 
requests"
qvc-requests-owner:       "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman owner qvc- 
requests"
qvc-requests-request:     "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman request  
qvc-requests"
qvc-requests-subscribe:   "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe  
qvc-requests"
qvc-requests-unsubscribe: "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman  
unsubscribe qvc-requests"
# STANZA END: qvc-requests

I've checked locks: - nothing regarding this list there.

main.cf shows: alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/lmail/ 
company.aliases,hash:/var/mailman/data/aliases

Where else can I check?

Thank you


From adamsca at gmail.com  Fri Aug  3 01:18:46 2007
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 16:18:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest not being sent
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c2d80194be2b@192.168.1.199>
References: <27572d930708021158n7a001f21s8b4e2c1e7d355322@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240802c2d80194be2b@192.168.1.199>
Message-ID: <27572d930708021618r7b7acbc7i55e5190bc2f46b41@mail.gmail.com>

Actually, I have read the FAQ, but didn't seem to reap any useful
information in this regard. I did find something in my search of the
mailman-users list that talks about  a corrupt digest.mbox file.
Before I had a chance to check that out, the digest was sent. Odd.

So, what controls the time that the daily digest is sent out if the
threshold hasn't been reached? There is a 'senddigests' script in the
/mailman/cron directory, but I am at a loss as to when it is fired
off.

I can generate digests based on threshold with no problem, and I know
the daily delivery problem is happening with more than one list, so
what else to look for?



On 8/2/07, Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:
> On 8/2/07, Christopher Adams wrote:
>
> >  I know there is a senddigests cron, but how does this actually work,
> >  and what could be the reason that no lists are sending the digest
> >  unless I manually choose that it be sent?
>
> Did you search the FAQ wizard on this matter?
>
> --
> Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
> Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>
>
> 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
>


-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From adamsca at gmail.com  Fri Aug  3 01:58:05 2007
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 16:58:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest not being sent
In-Reply-To: <27572d930708021618r7b7acbc7i55e5190bc2f46b41@mail.gmail.com>
References: <27572d930708021158n7a001f21s8b4e2c1e7d355322@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240802c2d80194be2b@192.168.1.199>
	<27572d930708021618r7b7acbc7i55e5190bc2f46b41@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <27572d930708021658r606d840em9ed9f1ceb549403c@mail.gmail.com>

Okay, I think I found it. I'm not sure how I missed it during install.
I didn't find the answer in the FAQ, but rather in the Mailman install
doc:

http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node41.html

So, I have installed the mailman crontab and the digests that haven't
been sent  by reaching the threshold should now be sent out at 12 am
every night.

On 8/2/07, Christopher Adams <adamsca at gmail.com> wrote:
> Actually, I have read the FAQ, but didn't seem to reap any useful
> information in this regard. I did find something in my search of the
> mailman-users list that talks about  a corrupt digest.mbox file.
> Before I had a chance to check that out, the digest was sent. Odd.
>
> So, what controls the time that the daily digest is sent out if the
> threshold hasn't been reached? There is a 'senddigests' script in the
> /mailman/cron directory, but I am at a loss as to when it is fired
> off.
>
> I can generate digests based on threshold with no problem, and I know
> the daily delivery problem is happening with more than one list, so
> what else to look for?
>
>
>
> On 8/2/07, Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:
> > On 8/2/07, Christopher Adams wrote:
> >
> > >  I know there is a senddigests cron, but how does this actually work,
> > >  and what could be the reason that no lists are sending the digest
> > >  unless I manually choose that it be sent?
> >
> > Did you search the FAQ wizard on this matter?
> >
> > --
> > Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
> > LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
> > Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>
> >
> > 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
> >
>
>
> --
> Christopher Adams
> adamsca at gmail.com
>


-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From carconni at earthlink.net  Fri Aug  3 02:01:02 2007
From: carconni at earthlink.net (carconni)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 17:01:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Follow-up Weird problem data format error. Command
	output Mailbox does'nt exist
References: <1208A387-CC06-4F69-94CA-E248FF15D57C@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <F033207C-4968-41B2-966C-60F0BBD533AC@earthlink.net>

Hi,

I've just been updated by more of the users/list admins.  It seems  
that every-time the mail-server bounces/restarts, configurations are  
lost.  Members fall off lists, lists stop running, or are no longer  
recognized by the mail server.  Is there a central DB or something  
that is rolling back to an earlier version?

I haven't made any changes to lists since they moved -  but then  
again - this could be a result of the move since our mail server  
really doesn't get restarted often.

Any ideas?


Begin forwarded message:

> From: carconni <carconni at earthlink.net>
> Date: August 2, 2007 3:14:12 PM PDT
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weird problem data format error. Command  
> output Mailbox does'nt exist
>
> HI,
>
> I have an odd problem.  I have over a hundred lists and all but one
> is working properly.  The initial support call was a complaint that
> the mail server was bouncing back the emails sent to the list
> claiming that there was no such user (list-name).
>
> I thought it was odd, so I rmlist -a and recreated it using newlist.
> I tested the list, mail went to the user and everyone was happy.
>
> Oddly, the mailserver bounced that night (we aren't sure why) but the
> next day I got another call about the same list.  I thought that it
> was a fluke, maybe some weird setting had been reverted when the
> server bounced, so again I removed the list (rmlist but without
> removing the archives) and recreated the list using newlist.  I
> tested the list by sending an email and everyone (except the
> administrator who now had to repopulate the list was happy)
>
> It is day 3.  I got phone call today.  The same list is broken
> again.  All the other lists work fine but this one seems to be
> unrecognized by the system:
>
> Aug  2 13:36:36 mail postfix/smtpd[5008]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from
> sjc.mailserver.com[63.80.14.252]: 550 <qvc-
> requests at mail.mailserver.com>: Recipient address rejected: User
> unknown in local recipient table; from=<carconni at mailserver.com>
> to=<qvc-requests at mail.mailserver.com> proto=ESMTP helo=< 
> [172.16.246.5]>
> Aug  2 13:42:02 mail postfix/smtpd[5066]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from
> sjc.mailserver.com[63.80.14.252]: 550 <qvc-
> requests at mail.mailserver.com>: Recipient address rejected: User
> unknown in local recipient table; from=<carconni at mailserver.com>
> to=<qvc-requests at mail.mailserver.com> proto=ESMTP helo=< 
> [172.16.246.5]>
> Aug  2 13:45:31 mail postfix/pipe[6401]: 9E219166485D: to=<qvc-
> requests at mailserver.com>, relay=cyrus, delay=0, status=bounced (data
> format error. Command output: qvc-requests: Mailbox does not exist )
> Aug  2 13:57:17 corp-admin2 postfix/pipe[7594]: 222591665614: to=<qvc-
> requests at mailserver.com>, relay=cyrus, delay=0, status=bounced (data
> format error. Command output: qvc-requests: Mailbox does not exist )
> Aug  2 14:05:45 mail postfix/pipe[7722]: 34A081666003: to=<qvc-
> requests at mailserver.com>, relay=cyrus, delay=0, status=bounced (data
> format error. Command output: qvc-requests: Mailbox does not exist )
>
> I have spent the better part of 6 hours looking for a reason.  I've
> checked permissions, not just with checkperms but manually, step by
> step, directory by directory comparing the broken list to a list that
> is known to be working.
>
>
> /private/var/mailman/archives/private/qvc-requests/database "other"
> perms must be 000 (fixing)
>
> drwxrwsr-x    3 root     mailman   102 Jun 18 13:30 production
> drwxrwsr-x    2 root     mailman    68 Jun 18 13:30 production.mbox
> drwxrwsr-x   10 root     mailman   340 Aug  1 11:18 qvc-requests
> drwxrwsr-x    3 root     mailman   102 Jul 26 09:02 qvc-requests.mbox
>
>
> /var/mailman/lists root# ls -l qvc-requests
> total 56
> -rw-rw----   1 mailman  mailman   3777 Aug  2 11:25 config.pck
> -rw-rw----   1 mailman  mailman   3778 Aug  2 11:24 config.pck.last
> -rw-rw----   1 mailman  mailman  11089 Aug  1 14:16 digest.mbox
> -rw-rw----   1 mailman  mailman    131 Aug  1 10:24 pending.pck
> -rw-rw-r--   1 www      mailman     24 Aug  1 11:18 request.pck
>
> /var/mailman/archives/private/qvc-requests root# ls -l
> total 160
> drwxrwsr-x   10 mailman  mailman    340 Aug  1 14:16 2007-August
> -rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman   2476 Aug  1 14:16 2007-August.txt
> drwxrwsr-x   28 mailman  mailman    952 Jul 31 15:08 2007-July
> -rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman  66954 Jul 31 15:08 2007-July.txt
> drwxrwsr-x    7 root     mailman    238 Aug  1 11:59 attachments
> drwxrwx---   12 mailman  mailman    408 Aug  1 14:16 database
> -rw-rw-r--    1 root     mailman   1465 Aug  1 14:16 index.html
> -rw-rw----    1 mailman  mailman    892 Aug  1 14:16 pipermail.pck
>
>
>
> I've checked the alias file in /var/mailman/data/aliases:
> (Everything looks ok)
>
> # STANZA START: qvc-requests
> # CREATED: Wed Aug  1 09:09:12 2007
> qvc-requests:             "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman post qvc-
> requests"
> qvc-requests-admin:       "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman admin qvc-
> requests"
> qvc-requests-bounces:     "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman bounces
> qvc-requests"
> qvc-requests-confirm:     "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman confirm
> qvc-requests"
> qvc-requests-join:        "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman join qvc-
> requests"
> qvc-requests-leave:       "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman leave qvc-
> requests"
> qvc-requests-owner:       "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman owner qvc-
> requests"
> qvc-requests-request:     "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman request
> qvc-requests"
> qvc-requests-subscribe:   "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe
> qvc-requests"
> qvc-requests-unsubscribe: "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman
> unsubscribe qvc-requests"
> # STANZA END: qvc-requests
>
> I've checked locks: - nothing regarding this list there.
>
> main.cf shows: alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/lmail/
> company.aliases,hash:/var/mailman/data/aliases
>
> Where else can I check?
>
> Thank you
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users% 
> 40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ 
> carconni%40earthlink.net
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
> req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Aug  3 02:16:35 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 17:16:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the received time on
	anoutgoingauthorized email message?
In-Reply-To: <46B1AD85.3040201@sgul.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708021716350578e5061945@msapiro>

Paul Key <pkey at sgul.ac.uk> wrote:

>Thanks - can't see the forward option - any ideas? Mailman V 2.1.3
>
>Use the "forward this message" feature in the admindb page to forward 
>the message to yourself.


On the admindb page, in the left box of the held messages item,
underneath "Action to take on all these held messages:" there are a
few checkboxes. The first two of these are "Preserve messages for the
site administrator" and "Forward messages (individually) to:". It is
the latter of these that is referred to.

However, you don't need to do that. If the list's admin_immed_notify is
Yes, you already have a copy of the message in the admin notice.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Aug  3 02:34:21 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 19:34:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest not being sent
In-Reply-To: <27572d930708021618r7b7acbc7i55e5190bc2f46b41@mail.gmail.com>
References: <27572d930708021158n7a001f21s8b4e2c1e7d355322@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240802c2d80194be2b@192.168.1.199>
	<27572d930708021618r7b7acbc7i55e5190bc2f46b41@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c2d828336d38@[192.168.168.122]>

On 8/2/07, Christopher Adams wrote:

>  So, what controls the time that the daily digest is sent out if the
>  threshold hasn't been reached? There is a 'senddigests' script in the
>  /mailman/cron directory, but I am at a loss as to when it is fired
>  off.

You have to put that cron job in your crontab, usually for the root 
user.  If not for root, then at least for the mailman user.

If your digest exceeds the maximum size you set, then Mailman will go 
ahead and fire off a digest anyway, even if you haven't reached the 
deadline.


If you've got problems with digests, the first thing to look for is 
the cron jobs.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Aug  3 02:53:26 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 17:53:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating from 1.0 to 2.1.9
In-Reply-To: <20070802154821.940321F50B1@ws1-2.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708021753260718925217c8@msapiro>

 runner at winning.com wrote:
>
>I moved the config.db file from a test list to the new server.  I logged in to the web interface and all the members were there and the settings looked good.  Moving the archives over and rebuilding them even worked.  However, if I try to run dumpdb on the newly migrated list I get this error:
>
>NameError: global name 'DumperSwitchboard' is not defined
>
>Although there are other posts in the mailman-users archives where people saw this problem; there was no resolution.  So it seems that even though the list appears to function properly and the web intercase works, something is not quite right with the config.db file and Mailman version 2.1.9.


Once you move the config.db to the new server and visit the list via
the web interface, the config.db is converted to a config.pck, and the
config.db (and config.db.last) should be discarded at that point, and
you should only be looking at the config.pck.

As far as bin/dumpdb throwing the NameError is concerned, this is a
known (to me at least) error in every version of dumpdb from 2.1.5
through 2.1.9 that prevents it from dumping Marshals. I can't explain
why it hasen't been fixed before, but I will fix it for 2.1.10.

The following patch should allow you to dump .db files.

--- bin/dumpdb  2007-06-18 08:35:57.000000000 -0700
+++ bin/dumpdb  2007-08-02 17:45:42.187500000 -0700
@@ -49,6 +49,7 @@
 import sys
 import getopt
 import pprint
+import marshal
 from cPickle import load
 from types import StringType

@@ -121,9 +122,7 @@
     # Handle dbs
     pp = pprint.PrettyPrinter(indent=4)
     if filetype == 1:
-        # BAW: this probably doesn't work if there are mixed types of
.db
-        # files (i.e. some marshals, some bdbs).
-        d = DumperSwitchboard().read(filename)
+        d = marshal.load(open(filename))
         if doprint:
             pp.pprint(d)
         return d


>It makes me a little nervous to run the migrated lists in production knowing that I can never run dumpdb and I don't know what else might be broken.  I think I will go with my original plan of pre-creating each list on the new server, importing the list member's email addresses and manually setting up the list.  With 150 lists, I think I can do it in a week.


As I said, the configuration of the migrated list is the config.pck.
The config.db should be removed after migration and creation of the
config.pck. You can dump the config.pck with an unmodified bin/dumpdb
and you can dump the config.db with bin/dumpdb patched as above.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Aug  3 03:03:16 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 18:03:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest not being sent
In-Reply-To: <27572d930708021658r606d840em9ed9f1ceb549403c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708021803160046d891ea9e@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:
>
>So, I have installed the mailman crontab and the digests that haven't
>been sent  by reaching the threshold should now be sent out at 12 am
>every night.

Actually, with the default Mailman crontab, they will be sent at noon.
If you want them at midnight, you need to change the 12 in the
senddigests crontab entry to 0.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Aug  3 03:12:43 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 18:12:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sanity-checking individual lists for health?
In-Reply-To: <16C3F41F-15E8-4801-ABEC-88F07C700EF2@bowdoin.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708021812430531d891ec9e@msapiro>

Chris Waltham wrote:
>
>One list that failed both "make update" and the below-mentioned  
>"config_list" is named "bowsun". Here is a copy of its contents:
>
>drwxrwsr-x    2 mailman mailman   4096 Jul 24 11:03 ./
>drwxrwsr-x  844 mailman mailman  65536 Jul 24 11:01 ../
>-rwxr-xr--    1 mailman mailman   1692 Jul 30  2003  
>admindbpreamble.html*
>-rwxr-xr--    1 mailman mailman    357 Jan 19  2001 archives.html*
>-rw-rw----    1 root    mailman  15076 Jul 23 15:37 config.db
>-rw-rw----    1 mailman mailman  15075 Jun 29 07:03 config.db.last
>-rw-rw----    1 root    mailman  12578 Jul 24 11:03 config.pck
>-rw-rw----    1 root    mailman  12578 Jul 24 10:51 config.pck.last
>-rwxr-xr--    1 mailman mailman    189 Jan 19  2001 handle_opts.html*
>-rwxr-xr--    1 mailman mailman   1026 Jan 19  2001 headfoot.html*
>-rwxr-xr--    1 mailman mailman   3136 Jan 19  2001 listinfo.html*
>-rwxr-xr--    1 mailman mailman   4106 Jan 19  2001 options.html*
>-rw-rw-r--    1 root    mailman 443875 Jul 24 08:41 request.pck
>-rwxr-xr--    1 mailman mailman   1169 Jan 19  2001 roster.html*
>-rwxr-xr--    1 mailman mailman    198 Jan 19  2001 subscribe.html*
>
>I'm not sure how to start troubleshooting that one..?


What did bin/config_list do when you ran it on this list? Did it issue
any sort of error or traceback? If it gave you no information (I don't
know why this would be), you could try running bin/dumpdb on the
config.pck (and maybe the config.pck.last), and also on a good lists
config.pck and compare the two.

Obviously, the output will be different, but what you are looking for
is whether or not the actual attribute names and the types (string,
list of strings, list of tuples, numbers) of the attribute values
correspond between the two lists.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Aug  3 03:40:52 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 18:40:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Follow-up Weird problem data format error.
	Commandoutput Mailbox does'nt exist
In-Reply-To: <F033207C-4968-41B2-966C-60F0BBD533AC@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708021840520078bb2238e2@msapiro>

carconni wrote:
>
>I've just been updated by more of the users/list admins.  It seems  
>that every-time the mail-server bounces/restarts, configurations are  
>lost.  Members fall off lists, lists stop running, or are no longer  
>recognized by the mail server.  Is there a central DB or something  
>that is rolling back to an earlier version?


Could be, but it is pretty clear to me that the problem is with your
MTA, not with mailman. Since your MTA is Postfix, and delivery is via
aliases, this can't be a Mailman (other than aliases) issue because
the mail is being bounced by Postfix because "Recipient address
rejected: User unknown in local recipient table" which means that
somehow the aliases for this list are being lost.


When the problem occurs, are the aliases still in
/var/mailman/data/aliases? What is the mod time on
/var/mailman/data/aliases.db? Are all the list's (working and
non-working) aliases in /var/mailman/data/aliases and nowhere else (eg
/etc/postfix/lmail/company.aliases or /etc/aliases)?


>> I have spent the better part of 6 hours looking for a reason.  I've
>> checked permissions, not just with checkperms but manually, step by
>> step, directory by directory comparing the broken list to a list that
>> is known to be working.


Nothing in Mailman is causing this. It is postfix that 'forgets' how to
deliver to qvc-requests at mail.mailserver.com. Apparently deleting and
recreating the list fixes the problem because it runs Postfix's
/usr/sbin/postalias command abd rebuilds /var/mailman/data/aliases.db
from /var/mailman/data/aliases. Probably just running postalias would
fix it too without the pain of recreating the list.


<stuff not relevant to the issue snipped>

>> I've checked the alias file in /var/mailman/data/aliases:
>> (Everything looks ok)
>>
>> # STANZA START: qvc-requests
>> # CREATED: Wed Aug  1 09:09:12 2007
>> qvc-requests:             "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman post qvc-
>> requests"
>> qvc-requests-admin:       "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman admin qvc-
>> requests"
>> qvc-requests-bounces:     "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman bounces
>> qvc-requests"
>> qvc-requests-confirm:     "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman confirm
>> qvc-requests"
>> qvc-requests-join:        "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman join qvc-
>> requests"
>> qvc-requests-leave:       "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman leave qvc-
>> requests"
>> qvc-requests-owner:       "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman owner qvc-
>> requests"
>> qvc-requests-request:     "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman request
>> qvc-requests"
>> qvc-requests-subscribe:   "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe
>> qvc-requests"
>> qvc-requests-unsubscribe: "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman
>> unsubscribe qvc-requests"
>> # STANZA END: qvc-requests
>>
>> I've checked locks: - nothing regarding this list there.


Mailman locks aren't relevant to this.


>> main.cf shows: alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/lmail/
>> company.aliases,hash:/var/mailman/data/aliases


Looks OK to me, but I'm not a postfix guy?


>> Where else can I check?

Something is happening when Postfix is restarted that is causing this,
but I don't know what or why. I'm guessing the
/var/mailman/data/aliases.db file gets modified somehow using data
other than that in /var/mailman/data/aliases, but I have no idea how
this can happen.

But, I can tell you, look to Postfix, not Mailman. Other than
/var/mailman/data/aliases*, there's nothing in Mailman that's relevant
to this issue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Aug  3 06:10:48 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 21:10:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible to filter what is archived?
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007080207231808434f6687bd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708022110480656b9f11ec0@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>Make a custom handler (see
><http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.067.htp>)
>that checks mlist.umbrella_list, and if true add an X-No-Archive:
>header to the message. E.g.
>
>def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
>    if mlist.umbrella_list:
>        msg['X-No-Archive'] = 'Yes'
>
>The handler has to be in the pipeline prior to 'ToArchive'.


I should know better than to post code when I'm in a hurry, but ...

The above is a bit too simple. Something like

def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
    if mlist.umbrella_list:
        del msg['x-no-archive']
        msg['X-No-Archive'] = 'Yes'

is probably better to avoid creating multiple X-No-Archive: headers.

Also, if you insert the handler prior to 'ToArchive', the message (any
message to an umbrella list) will not be archived at all. If you
insert the handler after 'ToArchive' but prior to 'ToOutgoing', the
message will be archived in the archive of the first umbrella list it
hits, but won't be archived in any subsequent lists which is probably
more like what you want.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ru916b at hotmail.com  Fri Aug  3 06:21:29 2007
From: ru916b at hotmail.com (BugsBunny)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 12:21:29 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change xxx-bounces@mydomain.com address in
	mailman
Message-ID: <BAY131-W27556B9BF08C8F602FEA9194EA0@phx.gbl>


Hi,I installed mailman 2.1.9 on fedora core 5.  My host name was originally set as mydomain.net. Everything seemed working fine. Then I changed my host name to mydomain.com. (from .net to .com).I changed this from /etc/sysconfigure/network.I also checked my mm_cfg.py and default.py to make sure no "mydomain.net" specified. But whenever I get mailing list email,  the email header  still says it  comes from "mydomain.net" instead of "mydoamin.com".   This caused my email going into spam folder like yahoo.Can anyone help me on where I can change this?  Do I have to re-install mailman ?Thanks-- James
_________________________________________________________________
???????????? MSN Messenger??
http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=zh-cn&source=wlmailtagline
From msapiro at value.net  Fri Aug  3 06:31:08 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 21:31:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change xxx-bounces@mydomain.com address
	inmailman
In-Reply-To: <BAY131-W27556B9BF08C8F602FEA9194EA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708022131080453c9fab66d@msapiro>

BugsBunny wrote:
>
>Hi,I installed mailman 2.1.9 on fedora core 5.  My host name was originally set as mydomain.net. Everything seemed working fine. Then I changed my host name to mydomain.com. (from .net to .com).I changed this from /etc/sysconfigure/network.I also checked my mm_cfg.py and default.py to make sure no "mydomain.net" specified. But whenever I get mailing list email,  the email header  still says it  comes from "mydomain.net" instead of "mydoamin.com".   This caused my email going into spam folder like yahoo.Can anyone help me on where I can change this?  Do I have to re-install mailman ?Thanks-- James


No, you don't have to reinstall Mailman. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp>.
Don't overlook the part about running fix_url on existing lists.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From carconni at earthlink.net  Fri Aug  3 07:35:10 2007
From: carconni at earthlink.net (carconni)
Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 22:35:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Follow-up Weird problem data format error.
	Commandoutput Mailbox does'nt exist
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200708021840520078bb2238e2@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200708021840520078bb2238e2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <8690B369-9C10-453F-8DF3-258654F41966@earthlink.net>

Hi Mark,

Thank you for your advice and I will certainly look into what postfix  
is doing.  In addition, I'll try your suggestion to run postalias to  
see if that corrects the problem.  I've now had 3 more lists become  
undeliverable.  They are all in the /var/mailman/data/alias file, so  
I'll keep digging.

The other thing that troubles me is that I can't figure out why lists  
are loosing members.  When the mailserver bounced tuesday, users  
added several days beforehand disappeared from the list.  The users  
were re-added, only for the problem to reoccur after a server  
restart.  I should point out this isn't occurring with the lists that  
became undeliverable, maybe it's a coincidence, and the 2 are unrelated.

I'll update the list with what I find - and thank you again for  
taking the time help me.

Carconni



On Aug 2, 2007, at 6:40 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> carconni wrote:
>>
>> I've just been updated by more of the users/list admins.  It seems
>> that every-time the mail-server bounces/restarts, configurations are
>> lost.  Members fall off lists, lists stop running, or are no longer
>> recognized by the mail server.  Is there a central DB or something
>> that is rolling back to an earlier version?
>
>
> Could be, but it is pretty clear to me that the problem is with your
> MTA, not with mailman. Since your MTA is Postfix, and delivery is via
> aliases, this can't be a Mailman (other than aliases) issue because
> the mail is being bounced by Postfix because "Recipient address
> rejected: User unknown in local recipient table" which means that
> somehow the aliases for this list are being lost.
>
>
> When the problem occurs, are the aliases still in
> /var/mailman/data/aliases? What is the mod time on
> /var/mailman/data/aliases.db? Are all the list's (working and
> non-working) aliases in /var/mailman/data/aliases and nowhere else (eg
> /etc/postfix/lmail/company.aliases or /etc/aliases)?
>
>
>>> I have spent the better part of 6 hours looking for a reason.  I've
>>> checked permissions, not just with checkperms but manually, step by
>>> step, directory by directory comparing the broken list to a list  
>>> that
>>> is known to be working.
>
>
> Nothing in Mailman is causing this. It is postfix that 'forgets'  
> how to
> deliver to qvc-requests at mail.mailserver.com. Apparently deleting and
> recreating the list fixes the problem because it runs Postfix's
> /usr/sbin/postalias command abd rebuilds /var/mailman/data/aliases.db
> from /var/mailman/data/aliases. Probably just running postalias would
> fix it too without the pain of recreating the list.
>
>
> <stuff not relevant to the issue snipped>
>
>>> I've checked the alias file in /var/mailman/data/aliases:
>>> (Everything looks ok)
>>>
>>> # STANZA START: qvc-requests
>>> # CREATED: Wed Aug  1 09:09:12 2007
>>> qvc-requests:             "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman post  
>>> qvc-
>>> requests"
>>> qvc-requests-admin:       "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman admin  
>>> qvc-
>>> requests"
>>> qvc-requests-bounces:     "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman bounces
>>> qvc-requests"
>>> qvc-requests-confirm:     "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman confirm
>>> qvc-requests"
>>> qvc-requests-join:        "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman join  
>>> qvc-
>>> requests"
>>> qvc-requests-leave:       "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman leave  
>>> qvc-
>>> requests"
>>> qvc-requests-owner:       "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman owner  
>>> qvc-
>>> requests"
>>> qvc-requests-request:     "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman request
>>> qvc-requests"
>>> qvc-requests-subscribe:   "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman  
>>> subscribe
>>> qvc-requests"
>>> qvc-requests-unsubscribe: "|/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman
>>> unsubscribe qvc-requests"
>>> # STANZA END: qvc-requests
>>>
>>> I've checked locks: - nothing regarding this list there.
>
>
> Mailman locks aren't relevant to this.
>
>
>>> main.cf shows: alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/lmail/
>>> company.aliases,hash:/var/mailman/data/aliases
>
>
> Looks OK to me, but I'm not a postfix guy?
>
>
>>> Where else can I check?
>
> Something is happening when Postfix is restarted that is causing this,
> but I don't know what or why. I'm guessing the
> /var/mailman/data/aliases.db file gets modified somehow using data
> other than that in /var/mailman/data/aliases, but I have no idea how
> this can happen.
>
> But, I can tell you, look to Postfix, not Mailman. Other than
> /var/mailman/data/aliases*, there's nothing in Mailman that's relevant
> to this issue.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From fbsdolot at cit.ru  Fri Aug  3 13:42:46 2007
From: fbsdolot at cit.ru (Geo)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 15:42:46 +0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fw: problem in Makefile for mailman
References: <200708021716.l72HGsjc002335@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <04e501c7d5c3$698ce990$e50010ac@gkt>

Thanks!
Now I can see the problem in detail...(It's seems.to me..)
I installed FreeBSD6.2 by FTP from ftp.freebsd.org and installed Mailman
by the port /usr/ports/mail/mailman   (after #portsnap fetch, #portsnap 
extract).
During installation I choosed SENDMAIL option by indikator in MTA select 
window
but command #make -V MAIL_GID show empty string (both before and after 
installation):
...--with-mail-gid=    --with-cgi-gid=www
and so on..
Can I  set MAIL_GID=mailnull by make-utility or anyway?
I am ready show step by step of my actions...



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Barry Finkel" <b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
To: <Mailman-Users at python.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Fw: problem in Makefile for mailman


> >Yep, it's a FreeBSD port.  While I run both free and open bsd, I've
>>found that there are a few things better installed from original
>>source.  Mailman is one of them.
>
> Look at the changes that FreeBSD has made.  You will probably find
> some that you do not understand.  I did the same with Ubuntu, and
> most of the changes were not documented, so I had no idea why they
> were made.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Barry S. Finkel
> Computing and Information Systems Division
> Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
> 9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
> Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
> Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/fbsdolot%40cit.ru
>
> Security Policy: 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 


From japruim at raoset.com  Fri Aug  3 15:04:36 2007
From: japruim at raoset.com (Jason Pruim)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 09:04:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Quick Question...
Message-ID: <DAD40C1A-57B5-4BAB-9DB4-8808F01DA595@raoset.com>

I have seen people complaining about mailman hosts limiting their  
outgoing messages to X per hour/day... Is that something that the  
host puts in? Or is there something with mailman that's limiting?

I think I know the answer I just want to double check :)


--

Jason Pruim
Raoset Inc.
Technology Manager
MQC Specialist
3251 132nd ave
Holland, MI, 49424
www.raoset.com
japruim at raoset.com



From prieheck at iwu.edu  Fri Aug  3 16:32:49 2007
From: prieheck at iwu.edu (Pat Riehecky)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 09:32:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Any way to prevent password reminders from being
	set at a server	level?
Message-ID: <1186151569.31655.21.camel@thales.iwu.edu>

I am in the process of configuring a secondary mailman system for use as
a hotspare.  I noticed just a few days ago that both the primary and the
backup system sent out list password reminders.  There really is no
reason to send out both reminders as they contain the exact same text.

Is there a way to tell the server not to send those out.  I know each
user can set this up on a per list basis, but since the backup does an
rsync of the list data from the primary any such change in the list
would be short lived.   

I found in Defaults.py DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS, but this seems to set the
default upon list creation.  I am just looking for a way to suspend
those messages so that my live backup system doesn't confuse the users.

The FAQ didn't seem to have anything helpful (at least not that I could
find).

Pat


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Aug  3 16:47:27 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 07:47:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Quick Question...
In-Reply-To: <DAD40C1A-57B5-4BAB-9DB4-8808F01DA595@raoset.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708030747270265e5061804@msapiro>

Jason Pruim wrote:

>I have seen people complaining about mailman hosts limiting their  
>outgoing messages to X per hour/day... Is that something that the  
>host puts in? Or is there something with mailman that's limiting?


This is something that some ISPs/hosting services put in their outgoing
mail service in order to limit the ability of their users to send bulk
mail. Whether or not they consider the effect of this on the Mailman
service they offer to their users is unknown, but it effectively
limits their Mailman service to small and/or low volume lists.

There is nothing in Mailman itself that does this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Aug  3 16:51:32 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 07:51:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Any way to prevent password reminders from
	beingset at a server	level?
In-Reply-To: <1186151569.31655.21.camel@thales.iwu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708030751320562549cadd2@msapiro>

Pat Riehecky wrote:
>
>Is there a way to tell the server not to send those out.  I know each
>user can set this up on a per list basis, but since the backup does an
>rsync of the list data from the primary any such change in the list
>would be short lived.   


Don't run the Mailman cron jobs on the backup. Just install Mailman's
crontab at the time of the switch over.


>I found in Defaults.py DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS, but this seems to set the
>default upon list creation.


Correct.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Aug  3 16:57:54 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 07:57:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fw: problem in Makefile for mailman
In-Reply-To: <04e501c7d5c3$698ce990$e50010ac@gkt>
Message-ID: <PC17602007080307575403906375297c@msapiro>

Geo wrote:
>Now I can see the problem in detail...(It's seems.to me..)
>I installed FreeBSD6.2 by FTP from ftp.freebsd.org and installed Mailman
>by the port /usr/ports/mail/mailman   (after #portsnap fetch, #portsnap 
>extract).
>During installation I choosed SENDMAIL option by indikator in MTA select 
>window
>but command #make -V MAIL_GID show empty string (both before and after 
>installation):
>...--with-mail-gid=    --with-cgi-gid=www
>and so on..
>Can I  set MAIL_GID=mailnull by make-utility or anyway?
>I am ready show step by step of my actions...


This is not our Makefile. We don't know what it looks like. We can't
tell you how to make it work.

There is probably some way you can rerun the relevant portion of the
Makefile with the correct setting, but we don't know what it is. If
you can't figure it out for yourself, the place to go for help is to
the support resources of whoever made the port you are installing.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From wes9999 at myfastmail.com  Fri Aug  3 16:53:57 2007
From: wes9999 at myfastmail.com (Wes)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 09:53:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Quick Question...
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200708030747270265e5061804@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200708030747270265e5061804@msapiro>
Message-ID: <46B34185.3000004@myfastmail.com>


>> I have seen people complaining about mailman hosts limiting their  
>> outgoing messages to X per hour/day... Is that something that the  
>> host puts in? Or is there something with mailman that's limiting?
>>     
>
>
> This is something that some ISPs/hosting services put in their outgoing
> mail service in order to limit the ability of their users to send bulk
> mail. Whether or not they consider the effect of this on the Mailman
> service they offer to their users is unknown, but it effectively
> limits their Mailman service to small and/or low volume lists.
>
> There is nothing in Mailman itself that does this.
>
>   
Assuming a host does this, is there any type of throttling mechanism in 
mailman?  I've had to set up throttling with a php based newsletter 
mailer in the past, and so I presume I'll have to deal with this when I 
move those lists to mailman, as I plan to do soon.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Aug  3 17:01:08 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 08:01:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Quick Question...
In-Reply-To: <46B34185.3000004@myfastmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007080308010807181ac889f6@msapiro>

Wes quoted me and wrote:
>>
>> This is something that some ISPs/hosting services put in their outgoing
>> mail service in order to limit the ability of their users to send bulk
>> mail. Whether or not they consider the effect of this on the Mailman
>> service they offer to their users is unknown, but it effectively
>> limits their Mailman service to small and/or low volume lists.
>>
>> There is nothing in Mailman itself that does this.
>>
>>   
>Assuming a host does this, is there any type of throttling mechanism in 
>mailman?  I've had to set up throttling with a php based newsletter 
>mailer in the past, and so I presume I'll have to deal with this when I 
>move those lists to mailman, as I plan to do soon.


Mailman has no throttling mechanisms. You would have to hack the code
in Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py to create one.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Aug  3 17:07:22 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 08:07:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Follow-up Weird problem data format
	error.Commandoutput Mailbox does'nt exist
In-Reply-To: <8690B369-9C10-453F-8DF3-258654F41966@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708030807220250637528d0@msapiro>

carconni wrote:
>
>The other thing that troubles me is that I can't figure out why lists  
>are loosing members.


Check the lists' bounce processing settings and look at Mailman's
'bounce' and 'smtp-failure' logs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cpz at tuunq.com  Fri Aug  3 18:32:35 2007
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 09:32:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fw: problem in Makefile for mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007080307575403906375297c@msapiro> from Mark Sapiro at
	"Aug 3, 2007 07:57:54 am"
Message-ID: <20070803163236.2013F7AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Geo wrote:
> >I installed FreeBSD6.2 by FTP from ftp.freebsd.org and installed Mailman

> This is not our Makefile. We don't know what it looks like. We can't
> tell you how to make it work.

To repeat myself, the solution is to -not- use the freebsd port. Install
mailman from it's source, using it's procedures. You'll have less headaches.

The bsd ports/packages system is a wonderful thing, IMHO better than 
pretty much all of the linux-based ones, but sometimes a software
package just installs better from it's released source code or sometimes
you need a compile option that just isn't handled by the port makefiles.
/usr/local/src can be your friend :-)

z!
part-time bsd geek

From Alan.Sill at ttu.edu  Fri Aug  3 18:34:29 2007
From: Alan.Sill at ttu.edu (Alan Sill)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 11:34:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate messages and unpickling errors on Mailman
	lists after upgrading Mac OS X Server
Message-ID: <42CC2EA1-80DF-44A9-9DF2-5F0E0798DF44@ttu.edu>

After applying the most recent Security Update to our Mac OS X Server  
10.4.10 installation, we are encountering the following two problems  
with Mailman lists hosted on this server that were working fine earlier:

1) Each message sent to any of our Mailman-based e-mail lists appears  
to be sent in duplicate to each member of the list

2) Under some conditions we encounter an "unpickling error" that from  
Googling around would appear to be a python error, as follows:

Aug 03 01:22:25 2007 (7442) Uncaught runner exception: invalid load  
key, 'm'.
Aug 03 01:22:25 2007 (7442) Traceback (most recent call last):
UnpicklingError: invalid load key, 'm'.

Aug 03 01:22:25 2007 (7442) SHUNTING: 1186122145.370055 
+f2ab5fac4a7b2dc159498a36ed5c91b5de42f490

The condition that produced this particular error involved sending a  
message to the "mailman" list on our server.

Any advice from anyone on either of these two problems? Is it  
possible that the security update left an old copy of mailman around  
with a different python, or is this a bug in the copy of mailman that  
we have in effect after the update?

We have tried disabling and re-enabling the mailing lists under  
Server Admin, stopping and starting the Mail service entirely,  
rebooting, stopping and starting mailman using mailmanctl from the  
command line, stopping mailman and running the check_db and check- 
perms commands and then re-enabling it, all to no avail.

Help would be much appreciated. How can I debug the duplicate  
outgoing messages problem?  Separately, is there a way to debug or  
repair the "UnpicklingError" we see?

Thanks.


From carconni at earthlink.net  Fri Aug  3 20:17:33 2007
From: carconni at earthlink.net (carconni)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 11:17:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Follow-up Weird problem data format
	error.Commandoutput Mailbox does'nt exist
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200708030807220250637528d0@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200708030807220250637528d0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <403E571F-7239-45CE-8265-4A4A7C899827@earthlink.net>

Hi Mark,

I decided to make a copy of the /var/mailman/data/aliases.db file  
yesterday.  I wanted to see if it changed after the server rebooted.   
Well the server rebooted a couple of minutes ago and I took a look at  
the directory:

-rw-r-----         1 root     mailman                 41 Apr 12 11:39  
adm.pw
-rw-rw----       1 root     mailman        228933 Aug  2 15:17 aliases
-rwxrwxr-x     1 mailman  mailman     81920 Aug  2 15:17 aliases.db
-rwxr-xr-x       1 mailman  mailman  344064 Aug  2 22:32 aliases.db.bak
-rwxrwsr-x      1 mailman  mailman             0 Aug  1  2006 bounce- 
events-00481.pck

(notice how the aliases, aliases.db and aliases.db.bak are all  
different sizes?)

It appears that the aliase.db does somehow get reverted to an earlier  
version of itself (very weird) - but it would explain why I loosing  
lists and users.  I took your advice and postalias aliases/postfix  
reload and that worked:

corp-admin2:/var/mailman/data root# ls -l
total 5376
-rw-r-----   1 root     mailman      41 Apr 12 11:39 adm.pw
-rw-rw----   1 root     mailman  228933 Aug  2 15:17 aliases
-rwxrwxr-x   1 mailman  mailman  344064 Aug  3 11:04 aliases.db
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman  mailman  344064 Aug  2 22:32 aliases.db.bak

Your absolutely right, postifx isn't doing what it should on boot  
up.  But where is that old db file coming from?

still looking....


On Aug 3, 2007, at 8:07 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> carconni wrote:
>>
>> The other thing that troubles me is that I can't figure out why lists
>> are loosing members.
>
>
> Check the lists' bounce processing settings and look at Mailman's
> 'bounce' and 'smtp-failure' logs.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Aug  3 20:36:02 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 11:36:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate messages and unpickling errors on
	Mailmanlists after upgrading Mac OS X Server
In-Reply-To: <42CC2EA1-80DF-44A9-9DF2-5F0E0798DF44@ttu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708031136020656ada93332@msapiro>

Alan Sill wrote:

>After applying the most recent Security Update to our Mac OS X Server  
>10.4.10 installation, we are encountering the following two problems  
>with Mailman lists hosted on this server that were working fine earlier:


Since Apple's OS X Server Mailman is modified from our distribution
(and is it still based on Mailman 2.1.5), and we have no idea what
parts of Mailman, if any, this security update touched, we're pretty
much only going to be able to give you the most general advice.


>1) Each message sent to any of our Mailman-based e-mail lists appears  
>to be sent in duplicate to each member of the list


Compare the chain of Received: headers between the two duplicates to
see if you can tell where the duplication occured.

Check your MTA logs to see whether the MTA sent 2 copies to Mailman and
whether it received 2 copies from Mailman.

Check Mailman's smtp and post logs to see how many copies Mailman sent
and to how many recipients.


>2) Under some conditions we encounter an "unpickling error" that from  
>Googling around would appear to be a python error, as follows:
>
>Aug 03 01:22:25 2007 (7442) Uncaught runner exception: invalid load  
>key, 'm'.
>Aug 03 01:22:25 2007 (7442) Traceback (most recent call last):
>UnpicklingError: invalid load key, 'm'.
>
>Aug 03 01:22:25 2007 (7442) SHUNTING: 1186122145.370055 
>+f2ab5fac4a7b2dc159498a36ed5c91b5de42f490


Is this the complete traceback? Normally there are also file paths and
code fragments with line numbers as well as the above.



>The condition that produced this particular error involved sending a  
>message to the "mailman" list on our server.
>
>Any advice from anyone on either of these two problems? Is it  
>possible that the security update left an old copy of mailman around  
>with a different python, or is this a bug in the copy of mailman that  
>we have in effect after the update?


Anything is possible until it is ruled out. How many qrunners are
running? (ps -Aw | grep python)


>We have tried disabling and re-enabling the mailing lists under  
>Server Admin, stopping and starting the Mail service entirely,  
>rebooting, stopping and starting mailman using mailmanctl from the  
>command line, stopping mailman and running the check_db and check- 
>perms commands and then re-enabling it, all to no avail.
>
>Help would be much appreciated. How can I debug the duplicate  
>outgoing messages problem?  Separately, is there a way to debug or  
>repair the "UnpicklingError" we see?


What happens if you run bin/dumpdb on
qfiles/shunt/1186122145.370055+f2ab5fac4a7b2dc159498a36ed5c91b5de42f490.pck

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Aug  3 20:42:25 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 11:42:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Follow-up Weird problem data
	formaterror.Commandoutput Mailbox does'nt exist
In-Reply-To: <403E571F-7239-45CE-8265-4A4A7C899827@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <PC176020070803114225046896335bcd@msapiro>

carconni 
>
>Your absolutely right, postifx isn't doing what it should on boot  
>up.  But where is that old db file coming from?
>
>still looking....


Have you looked in /etc/init.d/postfix (or maybe elsewhere) to see if
it may be copying an old aliases.db?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From wes9999 at myfastmail.com  Fri Aug  3 21:33:34 2007
From: wes9999 at myfastmail.com (Wes)
Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2007 14:33:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] customizing pages
Message-ID: <46B3830E.8050103@myfastmail.com>

I'm trying to figure out how to customize all the pages that an end user 
will see when interfacing with the mailman system.  I want a one way 
list, so I want to have the fewest options available to the user.

I'd like them to just:
1. subscribe on a web form
2. confirm via a link in their email client
3. unsubscribe if necessary following instructions at the bottom of each 
email
4. unsub/resub if they want to change their email delivery address

In other words, I don't care to let them see their other subscriptions, 
make use of their password, etc.

I've found where I can change most of the pages.  Here's a summary of 
the flow, with notes on which of the pages can be changed or not:

1. signup (can be changed via customizing "General List Information Page")

2. page displayed after signup (changed via customizing "Subscribe 
Results Page")

3. text of confirmation email (cannot be changed)

4. page seen after clicking confirmation link in the email (cannot be 
changed)

5. page seen after clicking "yes subscribe me" on the page mentioned 
above (cannot be changed)
(this page contains another link to the "user specific options Page")

6. welcome email is received (this can be changed by editing "Welcome 
Email Text File")

7. page seen after clicking "proceed to your membership login page" 
(changed via editing "User Specific Options Page")

If anyone knows how I can edit any of the pages mentioned above that I 
cannot seem to change, please let me know. (I'm on a shared host so I 
only have access to the web interface)

I'm on version 2.1.9.cp2

Thank you in advance



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Aug  3 22:57:37 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 13:57:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] customizing pages
In-Reply-To: <46B3830E.8050103@myfastmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708031357370515d68e5ba8@msapiro>

Wes wrote:
>
>I've found where I can change most of the pages.  Here's a summary of 
>the flow, with notes on which of the pages can be changed or not:
<snip>
>3. text of confirmation email (cannot be changed)


This is the verify.txt template. It cannot be edited via the list admin
web UI, but you might be able to convince your host to install an
edited template for your list. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>
for the info you need to explain it to them. You can get a copy of the
base template to edit by going to
<http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/files/>
and browsing to templates/en/verify.txt.


>4. page seen after clicking confirmation link in the email (cannot be 
>changed)


This is built on the fly in the CGI confirm module. It can only be
changed by hacking the code, a process that would be difficult if the
changes were not to apply to all lists in the installation.


>5. page seen after clicking "yes subscribe me" on the page mentioned 
>above (cannot be changed)
>(this page contains another link to the "user specific options Page")


Same comment as 4)


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From BobLaJolla at aol.com  Fri Aug  3 23:01:15 2007
From: BobLaJolla at aol.com (BobLaJolla at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 17:01:15 EDT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] antispam patch, and private archives not found
Message-ID: <cc7.180946a0.33e4f19b@aol.com>

Hi - I've been working on the anti-spam harvest patch to  dynamically X out 
the addresses in the mailman archives via the private.py  script, but have been 
running across an error.  After putting in the  httpd.conf rewrite rule, I 
get the error:
 
Private archive file not found
 
 
This is generated from the patched portion of the private.py  script, so it 
looks like I have the patch applied properly, but the private  script can't for 
some reason locate the archive.  Checking the  /archives/private directory, 
the list I'm referencing does indeed appear in  there.  However, checking the 
error log in /mailman/logs I  see
 
Private archive file not found:  /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/list/
 
 
What is "list" supposed to be?  This /list/ doesn't exist  as either a 
directory or a symlink  in the private (or public)  archives directory - has mailman 
been rewritten since this patch came out to no  longer use this 
link/directory?  Or have I installed the build or the patch  incorrectly?
 
Any insight into my problem?
 
Thanks  :o)



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Aug  4 02:51:41 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 19:51:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fw: problem in Makefile for mailman
In-Reply-To: <04e501c7d5c3$698ce990$e50010ac@gkt>
References: <200708021716.l72HGsjc002335@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
	<04e501c7d5c3$698ce990$e50010ac@gkt>
Message-ID: <p06240802c2d97de48a45@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/3/07, Geo wrote:

>  Can I  set MAIL_GID=mailnull by make-utility or anyway?
>  I am ready show step by step of my actions...

That's a FreeBSD question, since you're using their port of the 
Mailman software.  Try asking on a FreeBSD mailing list, because I 
doubt you're going to be able to get much help here, at least in 
terms of answering FreeBSD questions.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From shieldfire at gmail.com  Sat Aug  4 07:00:03 2007
From: shieldfire at gmail.com (Martin S)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 07:00:03 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam rule not stopping
Message-ID: <7ad4c500708032200x55a2f62by719769ffdd2e3c85@mail.gmail.com>

I've got

X-Spam-Level: xxxx

in my spam rule 1 under Privacy options. Still Mailman doesn't stop mail
directed to the maillist with a score of 8+.
What's up with that?


Regards,

Martin S

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Aug  4 16:22:54 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 07:22:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam rule not stopping
In-Reply-To: <7ad4c500708032200x55a2f62by719769ffdd2e3c85@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007080407225402184337ecd0@msapiro>

Martin S wrote:
>
>X-Spam-Level: xxxx
>
>in my spam rule 1 under Privacy options. Still Mailman doesn't stop mail
>directed to the maillist with a score of 8+.
>What's up with that?


What is the action for this rule?

With default spamassassin settings (which uses an asterisk (*), not an
x), I would use the following regexp (they are case insensitive).

^x-spam-level: \*\*\*\*

to match any X-Spam-Level: header that has 4 or more asterisks. See
<http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mdale at geniusmoon.com.au  Sun Aug  5 03:19:43 2007
From: mdale at geniusmoon.com.au (Mark Dale)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 11:19:43 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing URLS in a py file
Message-ID: <46B525AF.7020003@geniusmoon.com.au>


Hello Mailman Users

In the email that gets sent to new subscribers, there is a message like 
the one below:

+-------------------------------------------------+

Welcome to the pcst at geniusmoon.com.au mailing list!

General information about the mailing list is at:

http://geniusmoon.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pcst

+-------------------------------------------------+

Is it possible to change those URLs in one of the .py files somewhere?

I'd like it to show "http://pcst.geniusmoon.com.au"  instead, which 
would have a redirect (that I create manually) that sends the user to 
the above URL.

I'm thinking that it would be a matter of changing what wraps around the 
variables - domain and list name.

http://$DOMAIN/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/$LISTNAME
to
http://$LISTNAME.$DOMAIN


Any clues greatly appreciated.

regards
Mark Dale




  --------------------------------------
     Mark Dale

         phone: 02  6112 8632
        mobile:     0403 831 748
         email: mdale at geniusmoon.com.au

  --------------------------------------




From mdale at geniusmoon.com.au  Sun Aug  5 03:19:43 2007
From: mdale at geniusmoon.com.au (Mark Dale)
Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2007 11:19:43 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing URLS in a py file
Message-ID: <46B525AF.7020003@geniusmoon.com.au>


Hello Mailman Users

In the email that gets sent to new subscribers, there is a message like 
the one below:

+-------------------------------------------------+

Welcome to the pcst at geniusmoon.com.au mailing list!

General information about the mailing list is at:

http://geniusmoon.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pcst

+-------------------------------------------------+

Is it possible to change those URLs in one of the .py files somewhere?

I'd like it to show "http://pcst.geniusmoon.com.au"  instead, which 
would have a redirect (that I create manually) that sends the user to 
the above URL.

I'm thinking that it would be a matter of changing what wraps around the 
variables - domain and list name.

http://$DOMAIN/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/$LISTNAME
to
http://$LISTNAME.$DOMAIN


Any clues greatly appreciated.

regards
Mark Dale




  --------------------------------------
     Mark Dale

         phone: 02  6112 8632
        mobile:     0403 831 748
         email: mdale at geniusmoon.com.au

  --------------------------------------




From msapiro at value.net  Sun Aug  5 04:48:45 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 19:48:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing URLS in a py file
In-Reply-To: <46B525AF.7020003@geniusmoon.com.au>
Message-ID: <PC17602007080419484505785efc722f@msapiro>

It appears this message was delivered twice from relay00.pair.com to
bag.python.org. The relevant Received: headers from one copy are

Received: from relay00.pair.com (relay00.pair.com [209.68.5.9])
	by bag.python.org (Postfix) with SMTP
	for <mailman-users at python.org>; Sun,  5 Aug 2007 03:25:22 +0200 (CEST)
Received: (qmail 93650 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2007 01:18:41 -0000
Received: from 210.9.136.80 (HELO ?192.168.1.102?) (210.9.136.80)
	by relay00.pair.com with SMTP; 5 Aug 2007 01:18:41 -0000

and from the other copy

Received: from relay00.pair.com (relay00.pair.com [209.68.5.9])
	by bag.python.org (Postfix) with SMTP
	for <mailman-users at python.org>; Sun,  5 Aug 2007 03:18:42 +0200 (CEST)
Received: (qmail 93650 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2007 01:18:41 -0000
Received: from 210.9.136.80 (HELO ?192.168.1.102?) (210.9.136.80)
	by relay00.pair.com with SMTP; 5 Aug 2007 01:18:41 -0000

Note the identical first two (bottom two) headers followed by different
receive times in the third header.


Mark Dale wrote:
>
>In the email that gets sent to new subscribers, there is a message like 
>the one below:
>
>+-------------------------------------------------+
>
>Welcome to the pcst at geniusmoon.com.au mailing list!
>
>General information about the mailing list is at:
>
>http://geniusmoon.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pcst
>
>+-------------------------------------------------+
>
>Is it possible to change those URLs in one of the .py files somewhere?
>
>I'd like it to show "http://pcst.geniusmoon.com.au"  instead, which 
>would have a redirect (that I create manually) that sends the user to 
>the above URL.
>
>I'm thinking that it would be a matter of changing what wraps around the 
>variables - domain and list name.
>
>http://$DOMAIN/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/$LISTNAME
>to
>http://$LISTNAME.$DOMAIN


This URL and essentially all others for all the CGI modules, not just
listinfo, is built by calling the ScriptURL() function in
Mailman/Utils.py with the scriptname (listinfo in this case) as an
argument. That function returns the
http://$DOMAIN/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ part. See that function for
what it does. The actual list name is appended to the ScriptURL()
result by the caller and this is done all over the place.

 grep -r ScriptURL\(\'listinfo\' *

in the Mailman directory finds 25 different calls from 17 different
modules.

If all you want to change is the one occurrence of this URL in the
list's welcome email, just edit the Welcome email text file
(subscribeack.txt) template via the admin web interface to make a list
specific version and replace

  %(listinfo_url)s

with

  http://pcst.geniusmoon.com.au

or whatever URL you want.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From carl at carlejones.com  Sun Aug  5 06:25:29 2007
From: carl at carlejones.com (Carl E. Jones, CFP)
Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2007 23:25:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] LOVED, your email program for many years
Message-ID: <0ad301c7d718$c4d52b40$6801a8c0@CJ>

HI

I have an account at THE PLANET, here in Dallas. I've used, and LOVED, your email program for many years.

However......... (I'm not very computer literate in this area) the one thing I can't figure out, is how to get a list of the email addresses I have in my email lists. I have several lists that change daily and I need to print a list of all email addresses in each list about once per month. How can I do that?

Thanks!
Carl E Jones
www.carlejones.com


From carl at carlejones.com  Sun Aug  5 07:07:43 2007
From: carl at carlejones.com (Carl E. Jones, CFP)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 00:07:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] just figured it out!
References: <0ad301c7d718$c4d52b40$6801a8c0@CJ>
Message-ID: <0c7401c7d71e$90326140$6801a8c0@CJ>

I found what I needed to pull the list members out of the list.
Thanks
carl


From saraellars at gmail.com  Mon Aug  6 06:23:20 2007
From: saraellars at gmail.com (Sara Ellars)
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 22:23:20 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hello! And Emails Stuck on my lists
Message-ID: <adf8a84b0708052123w468520dbvd973ef9522ab7e0c@mail.gmail.com>

Hello, I am new, my name is Sara. I have been using the MailMan Mailing
lists for about 5 years now I think. I have loved it.

I just got a new problem that is pretty annoying. First, I don't have FULL
control of my servers. I have tech guys who run it, but my clients have run
into a problem of emails not sending. They can access everything, the emails
show up in the list archives. But it won't send to the users on the list. I
have searched all past posts and tried to tell my tech guys that it seemed
as if they were getting stuck in cache. All the rest of the emails work on
the server, they all go to the person they should, just the mailing list
won't send out.

Can someone please give me something I can tell them? Or even where I can
maybe see if it is something I can do myself? We are running on a Cpanel
server and I know that makes it a bit harder, but I would love any
suggestions anyone can offer me. Thank you again for the wonderful lists, I
would be so lost with out them! Which I am feeling that now lol

Sara

From peter.willendrup at risoe.dk  Mon Aug  6 08:38:49 2007
From: peter.willendrup at risoe.dk (Willendrup, Peter Kj=?ISO-8859-1?B?5g==?=r)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 08:38:49 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Add to filter from commandline?
Message-ID: <C2DC8E99.3B02%PKWI@exchange.Risoe.dk>

Hello everyone,


(Sorry if this one is documented elsewhere - did not find anything similar
in the FAQ...)

I have two mailinglists sitting on the same machine, one being the general
user mailinglist (A) and the other one the software developer list (B) (B is
reachable by a commonly known 'support' email adress).

Is there an easy way to allow members of list A to write messages to list B
without being members of B?


My current solution is to add the members of A to the accepts filter of list
B - something that I am currently doing using the web interface...

My real question is: Is it possible to add addresses to the 'accepts' filter
of a mailinglist from the commandline?

(I would then let a cron job periodically extract the A members using
list_members and add those to the 'accepts' of B.)



Regards,

Peter


From mike.peachey at jennic.com  Mon Aug  6 14:57:00 2007
From: mike.peachey at jennic.com (Mike Peachey)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 13:57:00 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible to filter what is archived?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200708022110480656b9f11ec0@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200708022110480656b9f11ec0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <46B71A9C.1070902@jennic.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Make a custom handler (see
>> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.067.htp>)
>> that checks mlist.umbrella_list, and if true add an X-No-Archive:
>> header to the message. E.g.
>>
>> def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
>>    if mlist.umbrella_list:
>>        msg['X-No-Archive'] = 'Yes'
>>
>> The handler has to be in the pipeline prior to 'ToArchive'.
> 
> 
> I should know better than to post code when I'm in a hurry, but ...
> 
> The above is a bit too simple. Something like
> 
> def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
>     if mlist.umbrella_list:
>         del msg['x-no-archive']
>         msg['X-No-Archive'] = 'Yes'
> 
> is probably better to avoid creating multiple X-No-Archive: headers.
> 
> Also, if you insert the handler prior to 'ToArchive', the message (any
> message to an umbrella list) will not be archived at all. If you
> insert the handler after 'ToArchive' but prior to 'ToOutgoing', the
> message will be archived in the archive of the first umbrella list it
> hits, but won't be archived in any subsequent lists which is probably
> more like what you want.
> 


This is just what I need, thank you!

However it seems that the "if mlist.umbrella_list:" statement is 
superfluous. On the assumption that the handler is being inserted AFTER 
the first archiving, then surely it's safe to assume that no message 
should be archived a second time and so ALL messages should get an 
X-No-Archive as soon as they've been archived once.

Let me know if I'm off base here.

-- 
Kind Regards,

__________________________________________________

Mike Peachey, IT
Tel: +44 114 281 2655
Fax: +44 114 281 2951
Jennic Ltd, Furnival Street, Sheffield, S1 4QT, UK
Comp Reg No: 3191371 - Registered In England
http://www.jennic.com
__________________________________________________

From adamsca at gmail.com  Mon Aug  6 17:34:24 2007
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 08:34:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about entries in Mailman logs
Message-ID: <27572d930708060834s6aed8296r34446dd32284d4ec@mail.gmail.com>

A list subscriber (joe.blow at server.com) regularly posts to his list
(listX) successfully. However, the mailman logs fill up daily with
these kind of entries, coming seconds apart. They have the same
message-id.

I don't know how to interpret this and if it is a Postfix problem or
related to Mailman. I would appreciate some clarification.

smtp.log.6:Aug 01 03:56:06 2007 (10919)
<F01D445F5D607141A78EDA56F4B6FBD702175A0C at dpsstex01.dpsst.local> smtp
to listX for 72 recips, completed in 17.070 seconds


post.log.4:Aug 03 03:56:25 2007 (30474) post to listX from
joe.blow at server.com, size=5318,
message-id=<F01D445F5D607141A78EDA56F4B6FBD702175A0C at dpsstex01.dpsst.local>,
72 failures


smtp-failure.log.4:Aug 03 03:56:25 2007 (30474) Low level smtp error:
Server not connected, msgid:
<F01D445F5D607141A78EDA56F4B6FBD702175A0C at dpsstex01.dpsst.local>


-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From manlio_perillo at libero.it  Mon Aug  6 20:51:46 2007
From: manlio_perillo at libero.it (Manlio Perillo)
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2007 20:51:46 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a few questions about the NNTP gateway
Message-ID: <46B76DC2.50702@libero.it>

Hi all.

I'm using Mailman 2.1.5.

I have enabled the NNTP Gateway but there are some problems.

1) The messages from the newsgroup are not sent on the mailing list.
    I don't know why, there is nothing in the error log
2) When sending a message to the newsgroup, Mailman does not obscure the
    email address
    (there is an obscure_addresses, but it only works for the web
    archiver)

I would like to know if 2) has been implemented in recent Mailman releases.

One last thing.
What happens when Mailman have to send an email message with a broken 
Subject header (R: instead of Re) to the newsgroup?



Thanks  Manlio Perillo

From msilva at nmcourts.com  Tue Aug  7 00:09:18 2007
From: msilva at nmcourts.com (Mario Silva)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 16:09:18 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help syncronizing privite/public archives
Message-ID: <002e01c7d876$6f41c3f0$4dc54bd0$@gov>

Hi all:

 

This is Mario Silva, and I am asking you assistance with an issue
administering Mailman software.

 

First at all, I am completely new administering Mailman software, so please
if you can help me I ask you patient if I reply your email asking you more
details about your answer.

 

Another issue is, if you do not understand what I am asking please do  not
hesitate to reply my email in order to give you back more details about my
situation.

 

I have a server running Mailman software version 2.1.5 , and my boss told me
the Mailman server did stop to synchronize the public and private archives
before July 2006, we do not why and I?ve been trying to read about how to
solve this issue. 

 

Can someone please help me out whit this issue ?

 

mario

 

 

-- 
Mario Silva
Systems Administrator
Supreme Court of New Mexico
Judicial Information Division 
2905 Rodeo Park Dr. East, Bldg. #5 
Santa Fe, NM 87505 
Phone:  (505) 476-6959 / Mobil: (505) 660-1026 
Fax:  (505) 476-6952

Website:   <http://www.nmcourts.gov/> http://www.nmcourts.gov
mailto:  <mailto:msilva at nmcourts.gov> msilva at nmcourts.gov

LEGAL DISCLAIMER:


The content of this data transmission is not considered as an offer,
proposal, understanding, or agreement unless it is confirmed in a document
signed by a legal representative of Supreme Court of the State of New Mexico
or the Judicial Information Division. The content of this data transmission
is confidential and it is intended to be delivered only to the addresses,
therefore, it shall not be distributed and/or disclosed through any mean
without the original sender's previous authorization. If you are not the
addressee you are forbidden to use it, either totally or partially, for any
purpose.

AVISO LEGAL:


El contenido de este mensaje de datos no se considera oferta, propuesta o
acuerdo, sino hasta que sea confirmado en  documento por escrito que
contenga la firma aut?grafa del apoderado legal de La Suprema Corte del
Estado de Nuevo Mexico o de la Division de Informatica del Estado. El
contenido de este mensaje de datos es confidencial y se entiende dirigido y
para uso exclusivo del destinatario, por lo que no podr? distribuirse y/o
difundirse por ning?n medio sin la previa autorizaci?n del emisor original.
Si usted no es el destinatario, se le proh?be su utilizaci?n total o parcial
para cualquier fin.

 


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Aug  7 00:47:25 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 17:47:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help syncronizing privite/public archives
In-Reply-To: <002e01c7d876$6f41c3f0$4dc54bd0$@gov>
References: <002e01c7d876$6f41c3f0$4dc54bd0$@gov>
Message-ID: <p06240804c2dd55310244@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/6/07, Mario Silva wrote:

>  I have a server running Mailman software version 2.1.5 , and my boss told me
>  the Mailman server did stop to synchronize the public and private archives
>  before July 2006, we do not why and I?ve been trying to read about how to
>  solve this issue.

Mailman doesn't "synchronize" archives of any sort, either private or public.

Can you explain in more detail what it is that 
was previously happening but which doesn't happen 
now?  Maybe then we'll be more likely to be able 
to help.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Aug  7 00:46:01 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 17:46:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a few questions about the NNTP gateway
In-Reply-To: <46B76DC2.50702@libero.it>
References: <46B76DC2.50702@libero.it>
Message-ID: <p06240803c2dd538fa06e@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/6/07, Manlio Perillo wrote:

>  I'm using Mailman 2.1.5.

BTW, the most recent version of Mailman is 2.1.9, which has a number 
of new features and some fixes for certain security holes.  I'd 
strongly encourage you to upgrade.

>  I have enabled the NNTP Gateway but there are some problems.
>
>  1) The messages from the newsgroup are not sent on the mailing list.
>     I don't know why, there is nothing in the error log

Go to the web admin page for your list, then go to the sub-page for 
"Mail<->News gateways".  Is the news server hostname filled in?  Is 
the newsgroup name filled in?  Is the moderation policy set 
correctly?  Do you have the radio buttons set correctly for passing 
traffic both ways?

In your mm_cfg.py file, do you have the correct definitions for the 
username and password you need to use when logging into the news 
server to retrieve and post articles?

>  2) When sending a message to the newsgroup, Mailman does not obscure the
>     email address
>     (there is an obscure_addresses, but it only works for the web
>     archiver)

Correct.  Mailman does not attempt to obscure addresses when posting 
mail messages to a newsgroup.

>  I would like to know if 2) has been implemented in recent Mailman releases.

Not so far as I know, but it shouldn't be hard to add.  However, one 
problem you'll have is that many news servers will reject your 
articles, if you use an address obfuscation scheme that they don't 
support.

So, your choices are to not do any obfuscation at all for news 
articles (which is what Mailman does today), or see if there is some 
common format of obfuscation that virtually all news servers are 
known to support.

Of course, if they support it then the spammers probably already know 
about it as well, and anything you can do they are likely to be able 
to un-do.

>  One last thing.
>  What happens when Mailman have to send an email message with a broken
>  Subject header (R: instead of Re) to the newsgroup?

I think what happens is that the subject header will get treated as a 
normal subject, and may have additional things tacked onto the front 
of the subject line, whereas normally Mailman would have recognized 
the "Re:" portion and potentially tacked those things on between the 
"Re:" string(s) and the rest of the subject.

But one of the core Mailman developers would be more likely to know 
the answer to that question, and they're also on this list. 
Hopefully they'll be able to respond to you within a few days.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From BobLaJolla at aol.com  Tue Aug  7 01:30:55 2007
From: BobLaJolla at aol.com (BobLaJolla at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 19:30:55 EDT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] antispam patch, and private archives not found
Message-ID: <c05.1c8c92d1.33e9092f@aol.com>

 
In a message dated 8/3/2007 2:01:15 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, BobLaJolla  
writes:

Hi - I've been working on the anti-spam harvest patch to  dynamically X out 
the addresses in the mailman archives via the private.py  script, but have been 
running across an error.  After putting in the  httpd.conf rewrite rule, I 
get the error:
 
Private archive file not found
 
 
This is generated from the patched portion of the private.py  script, so it 
looks like I have the patch applied properly, but the private  script can't for 
some reason locate the archive.  Checking the  /archives/private directory, 
the list I'm referencing does indeed appear in  there.  However, checking the 
error log in /mailman/logs I  see
 
Private archive file not found:  /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/list/
 
 
What is "list" supposed to be?  This /list/ doesn't  exist as either a 
directory or a symlink  in the private (or public)  archives directory - has mailman 
been rewritten since this patch came out to  no longer use this 
link/directory?  Or have I installed the build or the  patch incorrectly?
 
Any insight into my problem?
 
Thanks  :o)



 
 
I have made some progress on this issue, apparently the antispam  patch was 
munging a variable for the list name or URL, and instead of looking  for the 
actual list archive named "clist" I was testing, it looked for  "list".  It 
seems to be taking the first letter off the list name, and thus  for a list 
entitled "events" was showing in my error log as 
 
Private archive file not found:  /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/vents/
 
 
Admittedly I can't program much Python, but any idea where I might  look for 
the mangling of this list name in the private.py script (I don't think  it's 
from the rewrite rule the patch had me insert in the httpd.conf  file)?
 
Thoughts?



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From manlio_perillo at libero.it  Tue Aug  7 07:05:20 2007
From: manlio_perillo at libero.it (Manlio Perillo)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 07:05:20 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a few questions about the NNTP gateway
In-Reply-To: <p06240803c2dd538fa06e@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <46B76DC2.50702@libero.it> <p06240803c2dd538fa06e@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <46B7FD90.5090008@libero.it>

Brad Knowles ha scritto:
> On 8/6/07, Manlio Perillo wrote:
> 
>>  I'm using Mailman 2.1.5.
> 
> BTW, the most recent version of Mailman is 2.1.9, which has a number of 
> new features and some fixes for certain security holes.  I'd strongly 
> encourage you to upgrade.
> 

Mailman runs on a Debian Sarge server, so this can be a problem without 
an upgrade to Etch (but security problems are not a problem, with Debian).

>>  I have enabled the NNTP Gateway but there are some problems.
>>
>>  1) The messages from the newsgroup are not sent on the mailing list.
>>     I don't know why, there is nothing in the error log
> 
> Go to the web admin page for your list, then go to the sub-page for 
> "Mail<->News gateways".  
 > Is the news server hostname filled in?
Yes

> Is the newsgroup name filled in?  
Yes

> Is the moderation policy set correctly?  
The mailing list is not moderated (but requires subscription), the 
newsgroup is not moderated, so I have set the value "None"


> Do you have the radio buttons set correctly for passing traffic both ways?
Yes

> 
> In your mm_cfg.py file, do you have the correct definitions for the 
> username and password you need to use when logging into the news server 
> to retrieve and post articles?
> 

The NNTP server requires no password

>>  2) When sending a message to the newsgroup, Mailman does not obscure the
>>     email address
>>     (there is an obscure_addresses, but it only works for the web
>>     archiver)
> 
> Correct.  Mailman does not attempt to obscure addresses when posting 
> mail messages to a newsgroup.
> 

Ok.

>>  I would like to know if 2) has been implemented in recent Mailman 
>> releases.
> 
> Not so far as I know, but it shouldn't be hard to add.  However, one 
> problem you'll have is that many news servers will reject your articles, 
> if you use an address obfuscation scheme that they don't support.
> 

Not sure.
As an example I always use an obsured email address on usenet, without 
problems.
But, indeed, I see that on comp.lang.python many people use their real 
email address.

> So, your choices are to not do any obfuscation at all for news articles 
> (which is what Mailman does today), or see if there is some common 
> format of obfuscation that virtually all news servers are known to support.
> 
> Of course, if they support it then the spammers probably already know 
> about it as well, and anything you can do they are likely to be able to 
> un-do.
> 

Yes, this is true, unfortunately.

>>  One last thing.
>>  What happens when Mailman have to send an email message with a broken
>>  Subject header (R: instead of Re) to the newsgroup?
> 
> I think what happens is that the subject header will get treated as a 
> normal subject, and may have additional things tacked onto the front of 
> the subject line, whereas normally Mailman would have recognized the 
> "Re:" portion and potentially tacked those things on between the "Re:" 
> string(s) and the rest of the subject.
> 

It would be nice if mailman can apply a filter to the subject, and to 
fix it.


> But one of the core Mailman developers would be more likely to know the 
> answer to that question, and they're also on this list. Hopefully 
> they'll be able to respond to you within a few days.
> 


Thanks and regards  Manlio Perillo

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Aug  7 07:35:36 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 00:35:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a few questions about the NNTP gateway
In-Reply-To: <46B7FD90.5090008@libero.it>
References: <46B76DC2.50702@libero.it>
	<p06240803c2dd538fa06e@[192.168.1.199]> <46B7FD90.5090008@libero.it>
Message-ID: <p06240802c2ddb31c059e@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/7/07, Manlio Perillo wrote:

>  Mailman runs on a Debian Sarge server, so this can be a problem without
>  an upgrade to Etch (but security problems are not a problem, with Debian).

You could always install Mailman from source on that system, or you 
may be able to find a pre-built package that is based on the latest 
source.

This is one of the typical problems when using programs from 
pre-built packages, because you're totally dependant on the 
person/group/entity that creates the packages.


And I'm not at all convinced that "security problems are not a 
problem, with Debian" or any other OS, for that matter.  Especially 
not with an old binary package that is based on old code that is 
known to have security flaws.

I help run the Mailman server and the mail servers for python.org, 
and we use Debian Linux for the OS.  But we don't use any binary 
pre-packaged software, at least not for the critical bits like 
Mailman.

>>  Not so far as I know, but it shouldn't be hard to add.  However, one
>>  problem you'll have is that many news servers will reject your articles,
>>  if you use an address obfuscation scheme that they don't support.
>
>  Not sure.
>  As an example I always use an obsured email address on usenet, without
>  problems.
>  But, indeed, I see that on comp.lang.python many people use their real
>  email address.

In part, that's because we provide the news gateway function for this 
newsgroup via the mail servers at python.org -- using the same 
Mailman server and the same mail servers that are used to host this 
mailing list.  Mailman is a Python project, after all.  ;)

And certainly, addresses that come in from USENET in an obscured 
fashion will most likely have their messages thrown away by most 
modern mail servers, even if the Mailman server accepts them and 
processes them as normal.


So, when you run that gateway, you pretty much always want to use 
real addresses and not make any attempt to obfuscate addresses 
crossing one way or the other.

>>  I think what happens is that the subject header will get treated as a
>>  normal subject, and may have additional things tacked onto the front of
>>  the subject line, whereas normally Mailman would have recognized the
>>  "Re:" portion and potentially tacked those things on between the "Re:"
>>  string(s) and the rest of the subject.
>
>  It would be nice if mailman can apply a filter to the subject, and to
>  fix it.

There's a limit to what Mailman can do to fix the subject line, at 
least in terms of out-of-the-box code.

If you're a Python programmer, it shouldn't be hard for you to add 
your own module to the system to handle these things, and to hook 
that into the appropriate place in the flow of messages through the 
system.  In that case, we'd ask you to contribute your changes back 
to the project via the Mailman patch page on SourceForge, so that 
others may benefit from your experience.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From manlio_perillo at libero.it  Tue Aug  7 07:54:19 2007
From: manlio_perillo at libero.it (Manlio Perillo)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 07:54:19 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a few questions about the NNTP gateway
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c2ddb31c059e@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <46B76DC2.50702@libero.it> <p06240803c2dd538fa06e@[192.168.1.199]>
	<46B7FD90.5090008@libero.it>
	<p06240802c2ddb31c059e@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <46B8090B.3080002@libero.it>

Brad Knowles ha scritto:
> On 8/7/07, Manlio Perillo wrote:
> 
>>  Mailman runs on a Debian Sarge server, so this can be a problem without
>>  an upgrade to Etch (but security problems are not a problem, with 
>> Debian).
> 
> You could always install Mailman from source on that system, or you may 
> be able to find a pre-built package that is based on the latest source.
> 
> This is one of the typical problems when using programs from pre-built 
> packages, because you're totally dependant on the person/group/entity 
> that creates the packages.
> 

Well, having a pre-built packages systems has also some benefits.

> 
> And I'm not at all convinced that "security problems are not a problem, 
> with Debian" or any other OS, for that matter.  Especially not with an 
> old binary package that is based on old code that is known to have 
> security flaws.
> 

The Debian Secutiry team still supports Debian Sarge.
And in theory, if a security problem is found in an upstream package, 
the fix should be back ported on the Debian package.

> I help run the Mailman server and the mail servers for python.org, and 
> we use Debian Linux for the OS.  But we don't use any binary 
> pre-packaged software, at least not for the critical bits like Mailman.
> 

Ok, thanks.
I will try to install the new version.

> [...] 
> And certainly, addresses that come in from USENET in an obscured fashion 
> will most likely have their messages thrown away by most modern mail 
> servers, even if the Mailman server accepts them and processes them as 
> normal.
> 
> 
> So, when you run that gateway, you pretty much always want to use real 
> addresses and not make any attempt to obfuscate addresses crossing one 
> way or the other.
> 

Well, the question of email in clear was raised by an 
it.comp.lang.python newsgroup user.
And on this newsgroup, many of us do not use their real email address.

>>>  I think what happens is that the subject header will get treated as a
>>>  normal subject, and may have additional things tacked onto the front of
>>>  the subject line, whereas normally Mailman would have recognized the
>>>  "Re:" portion and potentially tacked those things on between the "Re:"
>>>  string(s) and the rest of the subject.
>>
>>  It would be nice if mailman can apply a filter to the subject, and to
>>  fix it.
> 
> There's a limit to what Mailman can do to fix the subject line, at least 
> in terms of out-of-the-box code.
> 
> If you're a Python programmer, it shouldn't be hard for you to add your 
> own module to the system to handle these things, and to hook that into 
> the appropriate place in the flow of messages through the system.  In 
> that case, we'd ask you to contribute your changes back to the project 
> via the Mailman patch page on SourceForge, so that others may benefit 
> from your experience.
> 

Ok.



Thanks and regards  Manlio Perillo

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Aug  7 09:20:36 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 02:20:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a few questions about the NNTP gateway
In-Reply-To: <46B8090B.3080002@libero.it>
References: <46B76DC2.50702@libero.it>
	<p06240803c2dd538fa06e@[192.168.1.199]>	<46B7FD90.5090008@libero.it>
	<p06240802c2ddb31c059e@[192.168.1.199]> <46B8090B.3080002@libero.it>
Message-ID: <p06240801c2ddcac09029@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/7/07, Manlio Perillo wrote:

>  Well, having a pre-built packages systems has also some benefits.

True enough, and where it makes sense we do make wide use of binary 
packages for other things on the system.

>  The Debian Secutiry team still supports Debian Sarge.
>  And in theory, if a security problem is found in an upstream package,
>  the fix should be back ported on the Debian package.

The crux of that problem is the "... in theory ..." part.

In practice, we know that they make a lot of modifications that they 
don't share with us (for whatever reason), and because of all of the 
internal code changes, we can't be sure that when we fix a bug in our 
code that they fix the same bug in theirs, or that they don't create 
other bugs that we don't have.

Also, we know that they tend to be slow to update, and they tend to 
limit the stuff they back-port.


So, for critical stuff, I strongly believe that you really do want to 
run from the source tarballs themselves.

>  Well, the question of email in clear was raised by an
>  it.comp.lang.python newsgroup user.
>  And on this newsgroup, many of us do not use their real email address.

If you're used to address obfuscation, then you probably don't know 
how many news servers out there that are silently throwing away your 
articles.  And you probably do care more about the address 
obfuscation than getting your articles to the widest possible 
audience.

However, as a system administrator who would be supporting a 
reasonably large group of people, the problem you've got is that what 
particular individuals think is good for them is not necessarily good 
for the group as a whole, and may not even be good for the particular 
individuals who don't know any better.

You will need to choose where to balance the expectations and 
benefits of single individuals against those of the group, and you 
will also have to take into account the capabilities of the software.


One thing to keep in mind is that e-mail users generally assume that 
the addresses will not be obfuscated, and so if they start seeing 
obfuscated addresses then they are likely to be confused -- 
especially if they try to reply to that person directly.  So, they 
may have a benefit by having their e-mail addresses obfuscated when 
the cross the gateway, but they don't generally have an expectation 
that the gateway would do this for them.  Overall, obfuscated 
addresses for e-mail users are a bad thing.

In the case of USENET users, they may well be used to the address 
obfuscation of their choice, and they shouldn't be too surprised to 
see some users whose addresses are not obfuscated.  However, you may 
not be able to re-generate a valid e-mail address for them based on 
their obfuscation scheme, so it's going to be difficult to 
un-scramble that egg.  Overall, obfuscated addresses for USENET users 
may somewhat reduce their spam load, but these days spammers have 
multiple address snarfing techniques, so any obfuscation that is done 
is likely to be of minimal real benefit, although they may perceive a 
much larger benefit than is actually achieved.


When you mix these communities via a gateway, you get some 
interesting problems where the expectations of one group conflict 
with the expectations of the other.  And I'm not sure that anyone 
here can give you any hard rules to follow in such cases.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Tue Aug  7 15:53:34 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 08:53:34 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a few questions about the NNTP gateway
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Brad Knowles <brad@shub-internet.org>'
	dated: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 00:35:36 -0500
Message-ID: <200708071353.l77DrYhv021826@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

Brad Knowles wrote in reply to a posting:

>And I'm not at all convinced that "security problems are not a 
>problem, with Debian" or any other OS, for that matter.  Especially 
>not with an old binary package that is based on old code that is 
>known to have security flaws.

When I was comparing the sources for Ubuntu/Debian Mailman 2.1.5
against the SourceForge 2.1.9 source, I had to check the three
security patches in 2.1.9.  Two of the patches matched; one was
completely different (different code in a different module).
I do not have enough knowledge of the internals of Mailman to be
able to determine if this third patch resolved the security
problem.  I ended up building my own Ubuntu package from the 2.1.9
SourceForge source, in the process eliminating almost all of the
Debian/Ubuntu patches.  The patches were, for the most part,
undocumented, so I had no idea exactly what they did.  Nor did I know
if they would fit into the 2.1.9 source, as some of the patches were
based on pre-2.1.5 code.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From manlio_perillo at libero.it  Tue Aug  7 16:20:58 2007
From: manlio_perillo at libero.it (Manlio Perillo)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 16:20:58 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a few questions about the NNTP gateway
In-Reply-To: <200708071353.l77DrYhv021826@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
References: <200708071353.l77DrYhv021826@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <46B87FCA.9030607@libero.it>

Barry Finkel ha scritto:
> Brad Knowles wrote in reply to a posting:
> 
>> And I'm not at all convinced that "security problems are not a 
>> problem, with Debian" or any other OS, for that matter.  Especially 
>> not with an old binary package that is based on old code that is 
>> known to have security flaws.
> 
> When I was comparing the sources for Ubuntu/Debian Mailman 2.1.5
> against the SourceForge 2.1.9 source, I had to check the three
> security patches in 2.1.9.  Two of the patches matched; one was
> completely different (different code in a different module).
> I do not have enough knowledge of the internals of Mailman to be
> able to determine if this third patch resolved the security
> problem.  I ended up building my own Ubuntu package from the 2.1.9
> SourceForge source, in the process eliminating almost all of the
> Debian/Ubuntu patches.  The patches were, for the most part,
> undocumented, so I had no idea exactly what they did.  Nor did I know
> if they would fit into the 2.1.9 source, as some of the patches were
> based on pre-2.1.5 code.

This was unexpected!
Do you have opened a bug report?

However the life of a Debian package maintainer is not easy.
It should maintain a package to a stable version for 1-2 years.


Regards  Manlio Perillo

From dave.list at pixelhammer.com  Tue Aug  7 17:19:40 2007
From: dave.list at pixelhammer.com (DAve)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 11:19:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can this be done using Mailman?
Message-ID: <46B88D8C.1050103@pixelhammer.com>

Good morning/Afternoon/evening,

I've been looking for a possible solution now for a few days, checked 
the docs, archives, search engines, etc. No clue.

We maintain several large mail lists for a client, excess of 40k 
subscribers, all opt-in - verified - signed in blood addresses. We use 
verp to purge the list of mis behaving subscribers. People who use the 
AOL spam button to unsubscribe and their ilk. No issues there, all is 
working fine.

The client is asking for the ability to manage list messages in a new 
way. We are unable to do so using our current software, ezmlm. Here is 
the scoop. The client has twenty mail lists, and subscribers can sign up 
for any number of lists. The client wants to be able to send a common 
message to some lists without sending duplicate messages if a subscriber 
is on more then one list. The key is some lists must be excluded from 
receiving the message. Think distributors vs retailers vs wholesales vs 
consumers.

This brought us to looking at Mailman topics.

As we understand it you can have topics, and subscribers will only 
receive messages directed at the topics they subscribe to. This means a 
subscriber could subscribe to [members], [stores], and [retailers], if 
we send a message to [stores] they will receive it. If we send a message 
to all topics, subscribers will receive only one message. This is what 
we want.

However, if we send a message only to [stores] and to [members], 
subscribers will receive two copies. This is not what we want. In order 
to have a subscriber receive only one copy of the message, the message 
must go to ALL topics, [stores], [members], [retailers], [malls], 
[gas_stations], [gas_stations_with_inside_bathrooms], 
[gas_stations_with_outside_bathrooms_in_north_dakota], etc. Not what we 
want.

Is this correct? Can we send a message to only three of twenty topics 
and subscribers who are only subscribed to one of the seventeen excluded 
topics will receive no message, and subscribers subscribed to two of the 
three included topics will receive only one message?

It is not clear to us from the docs or from any information we have been 
able to find. Thanks,

DAve
-- 
Three years now I've asked Google why they don't have a
logo change for Memorial Day. Why do they choose to do logos
for other non-international holidays, but nothing for
Veterans?

Maybe they forgot who made that choice possible.

From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Tue Aug  7 17:49:08 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 10:49:08 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a few questions about the NNTP gateway
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Manlio Perillo <manlio_perillo@libero.it>'
	dated: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 16:20:58 +0200
Message-ID: <200708071549.l77Fn8XB025028@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

Barry Finkel ha scritto:
> Brad Knowles wrote in reply to a posting:
> 
>> And I'm not at all convinced that "security problems are not a 
>> problem, with Debian" or any other OS, for that matter.  Especially 
>> not with an old binary package that is based on old code that is 
>> known to have security flaws.
> 
> When I was comparing the sources for Ubuntu/Debian Mailman 2.1.5
> against the SourceForge 2.1.9 source, I had to check the three
> security patches in 2.1.9.  Two of the patches matched; one was
> completely different (different code in a different module).
> I do not have enough knowledge of the internals of Mailman to be
> able to determine if this third patch resolved the security
> problem.  I ended up building my own Ubuntu package from the 2.1.9
> SourceForge source, in the process eliminating almost all of the
> Debian/Ubuntu patches.  The patches were, for the most part,
> undocumented, so I had no idea exactly what they did.  Nor did I know
> if they would fit into the 2.1.9 source, as some of the patches were
> based on pre-2.1.5 code.

Manlio Perillo replied:
>This was unexpected!
>Do you have opened a bug report?

No, because

     1) I have built an Ubuntu Mailman package from the 2.1.9 SF source,
        and I am no longer interested in whatever Debian/Ubuntu did/does
        with their patches.  I built a package, it works, and I know
        how to build a package from the next Mailman source release.
        I know which Debian/Ubuntu patches to include (those that put
        files in the proper Debian directories).

     2) I have no idea if there is a bug.  I have to assume that the
        third security patch they put into their Mailman package does
        resolve the security problem.  I really have no way to test,
        nor do I have a desire to test.  What bug do you suspect from
        what I wrote?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From JLeavelle at PensionRights.org  Tue Aug  7 21:51:13 2007
From: JLeavelle at PensionRights.org (Joellen Leavelle)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 15:51:13 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to export my list of members to an
	excel spreadsheet?
Message-ID: <5B204A7D0543C44DB984C8305F14496738DA98@studebaker.PRC.Local>

Hi,

 

I'm trying to export one of my lists into an excel spreadsheet.  I'm not
sure how to do it.  Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

Joellen Leavelle
Communications Coordinator and Logistics Manager
Pension Rights Center
1350 Connecticut Avenue, NW
Suite 206
Washington, DC 20036
Phone: (202) 296-3776
Fax:     (202) 296-1571
www.pensionrights.org 

 


From gus at clacso.edu.ar  Tue Aug  7 22:09:56 2007
From: gus at clacso.edu.ar (Gustavo U. Navarro)
Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2007 17:09:56 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages approved
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070313161306050727883061@msapiro>
References: <PC176020070313161306050727883061@msapiro>
Message-ID: <46B8D194.1020701@clacso.edu.ar>

Mark

I have a problem...
I autorizate a message for the list pendent of approve ,,, but I need 
that the message not can be send...

Could you help me for stop the message

I have use mailman and postfix

thanks
gustavo

From adamsca at gmail.com  Tue Aug  7 23:53:11 2007
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:53:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to export my list of members to
	an excel spreadsheet?
In-Reply-To: <5B204A7D0543C44DB984C8305F14496738DA98@studebaker.PRC.Local>
References: <5B204A7D0543C44DB984C8305F14496738DA98@studebaker.PRC.Local>
Message-ID: <27572d930708071453l78d4e881jcfbd49670648d982@mail.gmail.com>

Joellen,

If you have command line access, you can runt the /bin/list_members
command to get a list of addresses.

If you don't have command line access, you can send an email to the
list-request address and include this in the first line of your
message:

who <yourlistpassword>

In either case, you can then take the text and open it in Excel.

I hope that helps.

On 8/7/07, Joellen Leavelle <JLeavelle at pensionrights.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I'm trying to export one of my lists into an excel spreadsheet.  I'm not
> sure how to do it.  Any help would be greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Joellen Leavelle
> Communications Coordinator and Logistics Manager
> Pension Rights Center
> 1350 Connecticut Avenue, NW
> Suite 206
> Washington, DC 20036
> Phone: (202) 296-3776
> Fax:     (202) 296-1571
> www.pensionrights.org
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/adamsca%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From Luke.Daly at newcastle.edu.au  Wed Aug  8 04:28:20 2007
From: Luke.Daly at newcastle.edu.au (Luke Daly)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 12:28:20 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] user passwords
Message-ID: <46B9B6E4.2D70.00D6.1@newcastle.edu.au>

Hello
One of my lists doesn't seem to have sent out the password for users
when they were moved from the previous system. My question is is there
an easy way to resend the passwords out manually to all members? the
monthly reminder doesnt seem to be sending them out. iam kind of at a
loss as to why. Thanks again guys hope to be able to post some responses
to other peoples issues soon rather than the leech i am at the moment.

Luke Daly
Systems Officer
IT Infrastructure
Newcastle University
17000
 

 


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Aug  8 04:25:34 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 21:25:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages approved
In-Reply-To: <46B8D194.1020701@clacso.edu.ar>
References: <PC176020070313161306050727883061@msapiro>
	<46B8D194.1020701@clacso.edu.ar>
Message-ID: <p06240801c2ded93af51b@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/7/07, Gustavo U. Navarro wrote:

>  I have a problem...
>  I autorizate a message for the list pendent of approve ,,, but I need
>  that the message not can be send...
>
>  Could you help me for stop the message
>
>  I have use mailman and postfix

Once you approve the message, there's nothing else in the Mailman 
system that will stop that message going out.  At least, not in the 
web administration part of the system.

If you have command-line access to the server, you can stop the 
Mailman and/or postfix processes as soon as you realize the problem, 
but there's probably going to be a certain number of messages that 
will already have been delivered and you won't have any way to get 
those back.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Aug  8 04:20:57 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 21:20:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can this be done using Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <46B88D8C.1050103@pixelhammer.com>
References: <46B88D8C.1050103@pixelhammer.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c2ded7e2a492@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/7/07, DAve wrote:

>  The client is asking for the ability to manage list messages in a new
>  way. We are unable to do so using our current software, ezmlm. Here is
>  the scoop. The client has twenty mail lists, and subscribers can sign up
>  for any number of lists. The client wants to be able to send a common
>  message to some lists without sending duplicate messages if a subscriber
>  is on more then one list.

Mailman is able to eliminate some duplicate messages, depending on 
the exact nature of the situation.  In particular, if the headers 
show that a certain address is a named recipient in the "To:" or 
"Cc:" headers but is also a subscriber to the list, then the 
additional list copy can be avoided.

However, one list has no idea what the other lists are doing, or what 
traffic may have already been sent through there.  So, if the same 
message is posted to multiple lists and the same person is subscribed 
to multiple lists, then they'd still get multiple copies.  I don't 
see any obvious way around that problem.

>  As we understand it you can have topics, and subscribers will only
>  receive messages directed at the topics they subscribe to. This means a
>  subscriber could subscribe to [members], [stores], and [retailers], if
>  we send a message to [stores] they will receive it. If we send a message
>  to all topics, subscribers will receive only one message. This is what
>  we want.

As far as it goes, that sounds correct.

>  However, if we send a message only to [stores] and to [members],
>  subscribers will receive two copies. This is not what we want.

If there's just one list, with multiple topics, then a recipient on 
that list should only get one copy of the message, even if they're 
subscribed to multiple topics.

At least, that's the way I understand it.

>  It is not clear to us from the docs or from any information we have been
>  able to find. Thanks,

If I haven't been able to clarify this issue for you, please let me know.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Aug  8 05:08:22 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 22:08:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] user passwords
In-Reply-To: <46B9B6E4.2D70.00D6.1@newcastle.edu.au>
References: <46B9B6E4.2D70.00D6.1@newcastle.edu.au>
Message-ID: <p06240807c2dee3c26d1e@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/8/07, Luke Daly wrote:

>  One of my lists doesn't seem to have sent out the password for users
>  when they were moved from the previous system. My question is is there
>  an easy way to resend the passwords out manually to all members? the
>  monthly reminder doesnt seem to be sending them out. iam kind of at a
>  loss as to why. Thanks again guys hope to be able to post some responses
>  to other peoples issues soon rather than the leech i am at the moment.

There are a number of standard cron jobs that you're supposed to run 
as part of the standard installation process for Mailman, and one of 
those is the one to handle the sending out of passwords.

After making sure that you've got all the right cron jobs created for 
Mailman, you could take the specific cron entry for sending out the 
passwords and instead do that one by hand, as a one-time operation.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From just.mailman at lesve.org  Wed Aug  8 09:13:33 2007
From: just.mailman at lesve.org (just.mailman at lesve.org)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 09:13:33 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Better Bounce Log
Message-ID: <46B96D1D.8080401@lesve.org>

Id there any configuration in Mailman which can be set so you can see the reason
for the bounce in the logfile ( bounce.log)

Example:
     550 Unrouteable address
     552 Mailbox disk quota exceeded
     550 Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable

It could also be
     555 Account xxx is changed to yyy


             Regards




From oli at chaoszwerg.de  Wed Aug  8 09:41:02 2007
From: oli at chaoszwerg.de (oli at chaoszwerg.de)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 09:41:02 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too much spam = how to hide a list?
Message-ID: <20070808094102.52km3zwzogg4ogwo@webmail.chaoszwerg.de>

Hi,

since i installed mailman 2.1.9 i get a lot of spam on my list. how  
can i configure the list that it is not visible for people which are  
not on list?

And how can i configure a list in this way, when a message is received  
from outside the list, it will be automatically deletet?

I real have search through the internet and alot of FAQ and cant find  
a answer!

Thanks
Oli

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Aug  8 09:59:27 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 02:59:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Better Bounce Log
In-Reply-To: <46B96D1D.8080401@lesve.org>
References: <46B96D1D.8080401@lesve.org>
Message-ID: <p06240800c2df27df63e8@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/8/07, just.mailman at lesve.org wrote:

>  Id there any configuration in Mailman which can be set so you can see
>  the reason for the bounce in the logfile ( bounce.log)

Regretfully, the information that is currently written in the logs is 
all the current code is configured to provide.  There is no debug 
mode or anything else I'm aware of that would result in additional 
log information being generated.

If you're a Python programmer, you should be able to add some 
additional logging statements without too much difficulty.  In that 
case, we'd ask that you share those changes with the community 
through the appropriate Mailman patches page on SourceForge.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Aug  8 10:03:56 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 03:03:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too much spam = how to hide a list?
In-Reply-To: <20070808094102.52km3zwzogg4ogwo@webmail.chaoszwerg.de>
References: <20070808094102.52km3zwzogg4ogwo@webmail.chaoszwerg.de>
Message-ID: <p06240801c2df28b796be@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/8/07, oli at chaoszwerg.de wrote:

>  since i installed mailman 2.1.9 i get a lot of spam on my list. how
>  can i configure the list that it is not visible for people which are
>  not on list?

This is documented in the Mailman List Administrator's Manual at 
<http://www.list.org/mailman-admin/node20.html>.

>  And how can i configure a list in this way, when a message is received
>  from outside the list, it will be automatically deletet?

That's at <http://www.list.org/mailman-admin/node22.html>.

>  I real have search through the internet and alot of FAQ and cant find
>  a answer!

When looking for information about a package, product, program, 
etc... on the Internet, it is usually a good idea to take a look at 
their official "Documentation" page.  In our case, that's at 
<http://www.list.org/docs.html>, and it has links to the appropriate 
online manual for Mailman, as well as documentation for other roles.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From fliggle at pobox.com  Wed Aug  8 14:32:18 2007
From: fliggle at pobox.com (fliggle at pobox.com)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 08:32:18 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email commands for administrators
Message-ID: <46B9B7D2.4060303@pobox.com>

Is there any way for a list administrator can subscribe/unsubscribe 
users via an email command?  I would also like to be able to set/clear 
the "no mail" flag.

Background:  I administrate several lists and maintain an Excel 
spreadsheet that contains membership data.  Some folks are members of 
several lists.  I use a macro to add or remove users, change their email 
addresses, etc.  I would like to modify the macro to send email commands 
to mailman.  This way I could, for example, change a person's email 
address in one location and all lists of which they are a member could 
be updated automatically.  For various reasons, I do not want to send 
emails to mailman using the member's "from" address

If no email command exists for the administrator to do this, is there 
another way to accomplish the same result?

I could not find anything about this in the documentation.  I get "page 
not found" when I click on the archive link.

Many thanks for any help.

From dave.list at pixelhammer.com  Wed Aug  8 20:26:30 2007
From: dave.list at pixelhammer.com (DAve)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 14:26:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can this be done using Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c2ded7e2a492@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <46B88D8C.1050103@pixelhammer.com>
	<p06240800c2ded7e2a492@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <46BA0AD6.7000503@pixelhammer.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> On 8/7/07, DAve wrote:
> 
>>  The client is asking for the ability to manage list messages in a new
>>  way. We are unable to do so using our current software, ezmlm. Here is
>>  the scoop. The client has twenty mail lists, and subscribers can sign up
>>  for any number of lists. The client wants to be able to send a common
>>  message to some lists without sending duplicate messages if a subscriber
>>  is on more then one list.
> 
> Mailman is able to eliminate some duplicate messages, depending on the 
> exact nature of the situation.  In particular, if the headers show that 
> a certain address is a named recipient in the "To:" or "Cc:" headers but 
> is also a subscriber to the list, then the additional list copy can be 
> avoided.
> 
> However, one list has no idea what the other lists are doing, or what 
> traffic may have already been sent through there.  So, if the same 
> message is posted to multiple lists and the same person is subscribed to 
> multiple lists, then they'd still get multiple copies.  I don't see any 
> obvious way around that problem.

Agreed

> 
>>  As we understand it you can have topics, and subscribers will only
>>  receive messages directed at the topics they subscribe to. This means a
>>  subscriber could subscribe to [members], [stores], and [retailers], if
>>  we send a message to [stores] they will receive it. If we send a message
>>  to all topics, subscribers will receive only one message. This is what
>>  we want.
> 
> As far as it goes, that sounds correct.
> 
>>  However, if we send a message only to [stores] and to [members],
>>  subscribers will receive two copies. This is not what we want.
> 
> If there's just one list, with multiple topics, then a recipient on that 
> list should only get one copy of the message, even if they're subscribed 
> to multiple topics.
> 
> At least, that's the way I understand it.

So in the idea of an announcement only list, we should be able to have 
the list owner post a message to multiple topics, correct? I did not see 
where cross posting a message to multiple topics within a single list 
was possible. Do you know if it is?

> 
>>  It is not clear to us from the docs or from any information we have been
>>  able to find. Thanks,
> 
> If I haven't been able to clarify this issue for you, please let me know.
> 

Thank you very much.

DAve


-- 
Three years now I've asked Google why they don't have a
logo change for Memorial Day. Why do they choose to do logos
for other non-international holidays, but nothing for
Veterans?

Maybe they forgot who made that choice possible.

From JLeavelle at PensionRights.org  Wed Aug  8 22:30:22 2007
From: JLeavelle at PensionRights.org (Joellen Leavelle)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 16:30:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to export my list of members
	toan excel spreadsheet?
In-Reply-To: <27572d930708071453l78d4e881jcfbd49670648d982@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5B204A7D0543C44DB984C8305F14496738DA98@studebaker.PRC.Local>
	<27572d930708071453l78d4e881jcfbd49670648d982@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5B204A7D0543C44DB984C8305F14496738DAEE@studebaker.PRC.Local>

Thanks.  I tried this, but I received a message saying Undeliverable:
Delivery Status Notification (Failure).  I think I sent my request to
the wrong e-mail address.  Can you tell me what the proper format is?  I
tried listname-request at pensionrights.org.

Thanks so much!

 

 
 
Joellen Leavelle
Communications Coordinator and Logistics Manager
Pension Rights Center
1350 Connecticut Avenue, NW
Suite 206
Washington, DC 20036
Phone: (202) 296-3776
Fax:     (202) 296-1571
www.pensionrights.org 

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+jleavelle=pensionrights.org at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+jleavelle=pensionrights.org at python.org] On
Behalf Of Christopher Adams
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 5:53 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to export my list of members
toan excel spreadsheet?

Joellen,

If you have command line access, you can runt the /bin/list_members
command to get a list of addresses.

If you don't have command line access, you can send an email to the
list-request address and include this in the first line of your
message:

who <yourlistpassword>

In either case, you can then take the text and open it in Excel.

I hope that helps.

On 8/7/07, Joellen Leavelle <JLeavelle at pensionrights.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I'm trying to export one of my lists into an excel spreadsheet.  I'm
not
> sure how to do it.  Any help would be greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Joellen Leavelle
> Communications Coordinator and Logistics Manager
> Pension Rights Center
> 1350 Connecticut Avenue, NW
> Suite 206
> Washington, DC 20036
> Phone: (202) 296-3776
> Fax:     (202) 296-1571
> www.pensionrights.org
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/adamsca%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jleavelle%40pension
rights.org

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

From jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu  Thu Aug  9 00:20:08 2007
From: jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu (Jewel Makda)
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2007 17:20:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam
Message-ID: <46BA4198.1090204@washburn.edu>

I am receiving spam from a listserv on my server and I am not even 
subscribed to it. The spam is not getting through to the list members 
which is a good thing.  The name of the list is: maineattorneys-l and 
sometimes the email will be to:
maineattorneys-l-request at domain.com
maineattorneys-l-admin at domain.com
maineattorneys-l-bounces at domain.com

I even turned on the Emergency moderation switch and am still getting 
spam.  Any ideas as to what is happening?  I tried to look at the 
mailman archives but didn't find anything similar to this, that or I 
didn't search well.  Thanks!

-- 
J


From dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net  Thu Aug  9 02:18:00 2007
From: dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net (dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 17:18:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam
Message-ID: <14387650.1186618696788.JavaMail.teamon@b306.teamon.com>

Are you able to expose full headers on the messages?  What do you see?

Dennis Carr

-----Original Message-----
From: Jewel Makda <jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu>
Sent: Wed,  8 Aug 2007 16:26:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam

>I am receiving spam from a listserv on my server and I am not even 
>subscribed to it. The spam is not getting through to the list members 
>which is a good thing.  The name of the list is: maineattorneys-l and 
>sometimes the email will be to:
>maineattorneys-l-request at domain.com
>maineattorneys-l-admin at domain.com
>maineattorneys-l-bounces at domain.com
>
>I even turned on the Emergency moderation switch and am still getting 
>spam.  Any ideas as to what is happening?  I tried to look at the 
>mailman archives but didn't find anything similar to this, that or I 
>didn't search well.  Thanks!
>
>-- 
>J
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dennisthetiger%40chez-vrolet.net
>
>Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>



From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Aug  9 04:00:01 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 11:00:01 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Spam
In-Reply-To: <46BA4198.1090204@washburn.edu>
References: <46BA4198.1090204@washburn.edu>
Message-ID: <87k5s579i6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Jewel Makda writes:

 > I am receiving spam from a listserv on my server and I am not even 
 > subscribed to it. The spam is not getting through to the list members 
 > which is a good thing.  The name of the list is: maineattorneys-l and 
 > sometimes the email will be to:
 > maineattorneys-l-request at domain.com
 > maineattorneys-l-admin at domain.com
 > maineattorneys-l-bounces at domain.com

Uneasy rests the head of the boss.  Users' mail is often very broken.
It makes sense to reject or discard that mail when sent to the list,
because if you do pass spam anywhere from one to hundreds of thousands
of unsuspecting users will be annoyed by it.

However, if the user has a problem, then there has to be a way for
them to contact the "responsible party" to help get it solved.
Determining whether a particular oddball mail is spam, or is from a
user who has managed to mangle the expected format into something
unrecognizable to Mailman, requires (human) intelligence.  That's you.

AFAIK Mailman makes no provision at all for filtering on those
addresses.  But (if you have administrative access to the mail server)
you can put your own filters in at that level, or (with shell access
to Mailman) you can add one either to the Mailman administrative
pipeline or (I believe) customize the admin pipeline for lists where
you're getting spam.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Aug  9 04:36:45 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 21:36:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can this be done using Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <46BA0AD6.7000503@pixelhammer.com>
References: <46B88D8C.1050103@pixelhammer.com>
	<p06240800c2ded7e2a492@[192.168.1.199]>
	<46BA0AD6.7000503@pixelhammer.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c2e02e0ad69e@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/8/07, DAve wrote:

>  So in the idea of an announcement only list, we should be able to have
>  the list owner post a message to multiple topics, correct? I did not see
>  where cross posting a message to multiple topics within a single list
>  was possible. Do you know if it is?

I would think so, yes.  But you should probably wait for an answer 
from someone who knows better how that part of the code actually 
works, like maybe Mark Sapiro or Tokio.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net  Thu Aug  9 18:18:51 2007
From: dennisthetiger at chez-vrolet.net (Dennis Carr)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 09:18:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spontaneous spillover at a certain cue
Message-ID: <46BB3E6B.5070506@chez-vrolet.net>

OK, here's what's going on.

Just got a report from my users that the mailman archiver I'm using -
Pipermail (comes with the package, AFAICT) - is doing weird things.

First half of a message is here:

http://www.chez-vrolet.net/pipermail/ffml/2007-July/000080.html

...and the second half of a message is here:

http://www.chez-vrolet.net/pipermail/ffml/2007-July/000081.html

Note how in this case on the second message there seems to be a line
missing - as near as we can tell, if it hits a paragraph that starts
with the word "From", it cuts off, starts a new archive file, and
eliminates that first line from the new archive file.

What's going on, and how do I fix this?

-Dennis

From par at hunter-gatherer.org  Thu Aug  9 20:30:44 2007
From: par at hunter-gatherer.org (Par Leijonhufvud)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 20:30:44 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hold_these_nonmembers
Message-ID: <20070809183044.GB6990@sitsika>

I have a group of lists on a server, all for different parts of an
organisation. What I would like is a way to set things up such that when
someone who is a meber of one list posts to another the message is held
for moderation. Due to spam load the generic_nonmember_action is
currently set to reject, otherwise that would be a solution.

I can't find a "native" solution in the web interface, but I can extract
membership lists with the list_members command (using sort and uniq to
fix any duplications) and then add them using config_list. 

Is this a sane plan?  Will the world end if someone is both a member and
is in the hold_these_nonmembers list, or can I use one single master
list of "everyone"? Which takes precendence?

/Par

-- 
Par Leijonhufvud                               par at hunter-gatherer.org
Can we skip the boring intelligent part of the debate and save time by
jumping straight to the ad hominems?            -- Simon Cozens

From msilva at nmcourts.com  Thu Aug  9 23:54:16 2007
From: msilva at nmcourts.com (Mario Silva)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 15:54:16 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with mailman v2.1.5
Message-ID: <00ec01c7dacf$d51c0fe0$7f542fa0$@com>

Hi all:

 

I have this problem with mailman.

 

When a person who is not member of a list, the manager of the list gets the
message to approve the delivery of the message, but when a member of the
list send a message, the message just gets disappears, the message never
gets to the list.

 

I deleted the list then recreate it, it worked just for a day, but at the
next day the list was broken again, I am going to recreate de list again,
but I do not want to come tomorrow at office and then to do the same
procedure, obviously there?s something wrong but to be honest I don?t know
if the problem might be something related with the mailman version and
probably I should update it, but first I need to be sure.

 

 

Thank you

 

 

-- 
Mario Silva
Systems Administrator
Supreme Court of New Mexico
Judicial Information Division 
2905 Rodeo Park Dr. East, Bldg. #5 
Santa Fe, NM 87505 
Phone:  (505) 476-6959 / Mobil: (505) 660-1026 
Fax:  (505) 476-6952

Website:   <http://www.nmcourts.gov/> http://www.nmcourts.gov
mailto:  <mailto:msilva at nmcourts.gov> msilva at nmcourts.gov

LEGAL DISCLAIMER:


The content of this data transmission is not considered as an offer,
proposal, understanding, or agreement unless it is confirmed in a document
signed by a legal representative of Supreme Court of the State of New Mexico
or the Judicial Information Division. The content of this data transmission
is confidential and it is intended to be delivered only to the addresses,
therefore, it shall not be distributed and/or disclosed through any mean
without the original sender's previous authorization. If you are not the
addressee you are forbidden to use it, either totally or partially, for any
purpose.

AVISO LEGAL:


El contenido de este mensaje de datos no se considera oferta, propuesta o
acuerdo, sino hasta que sea confirmado en  documento por escrito que
contenga la firma aut?grafa del apoderado legal de La Suprema Corte del
Estado de Nuevo Mexico o de la Division de Informatica del Estado. El
contenido de este mensaje de datos es confidencial y se entiende dirigido y
para uso exclusivo del destinatario, por lo que no podr? distribuirse y/o
difundirse por ning?n medio sin la previa autorizaci?n del emisor original.
Si usted no es el destinatario, se le proh?be su utilizaci?n total o parcial
para cualquier fin.

 


From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Fri Aug 10 01:43:08 2007
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2007 16:43:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with mailman v2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <00ec01c7dacf$d51c0fe0$7f542fa0$@com>
Message-ID: <C2E0F49C.14223%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 8/9/07 2:54 PM, "Mario Silva" <msilva at nmcourts.com> wrote:

> I have this problem with mailman.
> 
>  
> 
> When a person who is not member of a list, the manager of the list gets the
> message to approve the delivery of the message, but when a member of the
> list send a message, the message just gets disappears, the message never
> gets to the list.
> 
>  
> 
> I deleted the list then recreate it, it worked just for a day, but at the
> next day the list was broken again, I am going to recreate de list again,
> but I do not want to come tomorrow at office and then to do the same
> procedure, obviously there?s something wrong but to be honest I don?t know
> if the problem might be something related with the mailman version and
> probably I should update it, but first I need to be sure.

Once the list has become broken, have the ownership and/or permissions
changed?  Are the Mailman queue runners still running?

One possibility is that a helpful overnight job is "improving" things.  If
not improving permissions, then perhaps stopping the Mailman queue runners
for some reason and not restarting them.

(I thought first of the permissions, so wrote that first.  But the queue
runners are easier to check and perhaps more likely, so if it were me I'd
look at that first.)

  --John



From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Aug 10 03:34:36 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 20:34:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spontaneous spillover at a certain cue
In-Reply-To: <46BB3E6B.5070506@chez-vrolet.net>
References: <46BB3E6B.5070506@chez-vrolet.net>
Message-ID: <p06240802c2e170dd80aa@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/9/07, Dennis Carr wrote:

>  Note how in this case on the second message there seems to be a line
>  missing - as near as we can tell, if it hits a paragraph that starts
>  with the word "From", it cuts off, starts a new archive file, and
>  eliminates that first line from the new archive file.

Looks like your local delivery agent munged the message and didn't do 
proper "^From_" escaping, so that got misinterpreted by Pipermail.

IIRC, there are command-line tools to massage the archives which 
should be able to fix this problem, but you may have to re-generate 
the archives once the "raw" mbox is fixed.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Aug 10 03:36:47 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 20:36:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hold_these_nonmembers
In-Reply-To: <20070809183044.GB6990@sitsika>
References: <20070809183044.GB6990@sitsika>
Message-ID: <p06240803c2e1712e93d6@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/9/07, Par Leijonhufvud wrote:

>  I have a group of lists on a server, all for different parts of an
>  organisation. What I would like is a way to set things up such that when
>  someone who is a meber of one list posts to another the message is held
>  for moderation. Due to spam load the generic_nonmember_action is
>  currently set to reject, otherwise that would be a solution.

There's an unofficial patch for this which allows you to specify that 
subscribers to specified other lists are also allowed to post, but 
I'm not sure if it has been brought up to compatibility for Mailman 
2.1.9, although I know it worked for Mailman 2.1.5.  Search the 
archives and the Mailman patch page on SourceForge.

I know this doesn't quite do what you want, but if you moderate new 
members by default and you explicitly un-moderate actual subscribers 
to the list, then the result should be the same.  I think.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Aug 10 04:04:40 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:04:40 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Spontaneous spillover at a certain cue
In-Reply-To: <46BB3E6B.5070506@chez-vrolet.net>
References: <46BB3E6B.5070506@chez-vrolet.net>
Message-ID: <87wsw45emf.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Dennis Carr writes:

 > Note how in this case on the second message there seems to be a line
 > missing - as near as we can tell, if it hits a paragraph that starts
 > with the word "From", it cuts off, starts a new archive file, and
 > eliminates that first line from the new archive file.

That's Unix mbox format.  See http://www.jwz.org/doc/content-length.html
for the expletives-retained explanation of why things are done this
way.  Use the bin/cleanarch script to mangle those lines.

See also FAQs 3.36 and 3.63:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq03.036.htp
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq03.063.htp

There are plans in the works to improve the archiving system in the
future; pipermail is not industrial-strength, and never was intended
to be.  That said it has proved to be very usable.


From Luke.Daly at newcastle.edu.au  Fri Aug 10 04:20:09 2007
From: Luke.Daly at newcastle.edu.au (Luke Daly)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 12:20:09 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] another issue
Message-ID: <46BC57F7.2D70.00D6.1@newcastle.edu.au>

And again
Could you please advise me if there is some setting in Mailman I could
use to allow subscriptions from @newcastle and @studentmail addresses
(both our domains) to
be accepted automatically.  Currently, as owner, I am asked to
authorise
all subscriptions for our three mail lists.  This is becoming a daily
task lately.

Prior to Mailman, our email lists were set up to only hold/reject
subscription requests that came from non-staff or non-student
accounts,
(as it is quite acceptable that any staff or student subscribe to our
lists).  I would then receive a warning message that gave me the
chance
to check with the person about their affiliation with this university.

Most of the time I never heard back from them, but in some instances
people had legitimate need to be on our lists even though they were
not
staff. Any ideas guys?

Luke Daly
Systems Officer
IT Infrastructure
Newcastle University
17000
 

 


From shieldfire at gmail.com  Fri Aug 10 06:23:23 2007
From: shieldfire at gmail.com (Martin S)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 06:23:23 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd:  spam rule not stopping
In-Reply-To: <7ad4c500708062014x148d0fa9k17b833f09d8838f0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7ad4c500708032200x55a2f62by719769ffdd2e3c85@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602007080407225402184337ecd0@msapiro>
	<7ad4c500708042054t139d48b0v3f5b14699bfd25a2@mail.gmail.com>
	<7ad4c500708062014x148d0fa9k17b833f09d8838f0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7ad4c500708092123r736ab225kdef9270bc405109f@mail.gmail.com>

Not sure this got to the list...
Apologies if it did.

MArtin S

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Martin S <shieldfire at gmail.com>
Date: 2007-aug-07 05:14
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] spam rule not stopping
To: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>



2007/8/5, Martin S <shieldfire at gmail.com>:
>
>
>
> 2007/8/4, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>:
> >
> > Martin S wrote:
> > >
> > >X-Spam-Level: xxxx
> > >
> > >in my spam rule 1 under Privacy options. Still Mailman doesn't stop
> > mail
> > >directed to the maillist with a score of 8+.
> > >What's up with that?
> >
> >
> > What is the action for this rule?
> >
> > With default spamassassin settings (which uses an asterisk (*), not an
> > x), I would use the following regexp (they are case insensitive).
> >
> > ^x-spam-level: \*\*\*\*
> >
> > to match any X-Spam-Level: header that has 4 or more asterisks. See
> > < http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html>.
> >
> > I have "Discard" as the action. Changed to your suggested syntax, I'll
> see if things improve.



Apparently it doesn't - I still get highly classed spam mail on the list.
(X-Spam-Level is over 7)

Regards,

Martin S


-- 
Regards,

Martin S

From BobLaJolla at aol.com  Fri Aug 10 09:52:57 2007
From: BobLaJolla at aol.com (BobLaJolla at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 03:52:57 EDT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] preventing mailto and http links in archives,
	trimming hotmail footers etc.
Message-ID: <d49.e32c520.33ed7359@aol.com>

Is there a setting to turn off the mailto and URL embedding of  links in the 
web archive of list mail?  I have added the anti-spam  harvesting patch, and 
these are less than useful now.
 
Also, I noticed the email addresses have a superfluous underscore  prepended 
to them in the archives (e.g., __user at aol.com_ (mailto:_user at aol.com) ).  Is 
that a common bug, and  where might I track that down?
 
Finally, is there a patch or setting to kill the common footers  that some 
mailers (like Hotmail) append to their outgoing emails?  For  example, aol 
generously adds the footer below:
 
 
"...Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at..."  etc.  
 
 
Any way to automatically trim the most common of these before they  get to 
the subscribers and archive?

Thanks...!  :o)
 



************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at 
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

From par at hunter-gatherer.org  Fri Aug 10 13:09:40 2007
From: par at hunter-gatherer.org (Par Leijonhufvud)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 13:09:40 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hold_these_nonmembers
In-Reply-To: <p06240803c2e1712e93d6@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <20070809183044.GB6990@sitsika>
	<p06240803c2e1712e93d6@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <20070810110940.GJ6990@sitsika>

Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> [2007.08.10] wrote:
> There's an unofficial patch for this which allows you to specify that 
> subscribers to specified other lists are also allowed to post, but 
> I'm not sure if it has been brought up to compatibility for Mailman 
> 2.1.9, although I know it worked for Mailman 2.1.5.  Search the 
> archives and the Mailman patch page on SourceForge.

Claims to work for 2.1.9 (listinclusion.patch).

> I know this doesn't quite do what you want, but if you moderate new 
> members by default and you explicitly un-moderate actual subscribers 
> to the list, then the result should be the same.  I think.

My concern with going that route is twofold:

        1. Stability over future upgrades
        2. I know the list-admins, and I do not trust all of them to get
           a two step process right every time.

Would my solution work? What is the result if someone is both in the
membeshp list and on the hold_these_nonmembers list?

/Par

-- 
Par Leijonhufvud                               par at hunter-gatherer.org
<dhd> even though I know what a 'one time pad' is, it still sounds like
a feminine hygiene product.

From dawn.kolb at gmail.com  Fri Aug 10 15:31:10 2007
From: dawn.kolb at gmail.com (Dawn Kolb)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:31:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] max emails exceeded
Message-ID: <2d1d74650708100631q30d3c187p92e01108ef1b59ff@mail.gmail.com>

 I don't know if this issue has been brought up before, but I am new
to the listserv so.....

I run an online chat forum with Mailman, and several people are not
getting all the messages.  Occasionally I get a message saying "Domain
<omitted> has exceeded the max emails per hour.  Message discarded."
What does that mean?  What is the maximum number of emails per hour
permitted?

 I have looked through the FAQs but nothing there could help me.
Everyone on the list signed up themselves, and each have written
something in the last few days so nobody is notifying their ISP that
it is spam.  I have told everyone to search their spam folders just in
case, and they do that now as well.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Dawn Kolb
dawn.kolb at gmail.com

From wes9999 at myfastmail.com  Fri Aug 10 16:01:16 2007
From: wes9999 at myfastmail.com (Wes)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 09:01:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] max emails exceeded
In-Reply-To: <2d1d74650708100631q30d3c187p92e01108ef1b59ff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2d1d74650708100631q30d3c187p92e01108ef1b59ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46BC6FAC.4090107@myfastmail.com>

This might be due to a restriction of your webhost.  Are you using a 
shared hosting service?  If so, contact them and see if they have any 
limits on outgoing mail...

How many subscribers are there and how many typical messages do you have 
per day?
Dawn Kolb wrote:
>  I don't know if this issue has been brought up before, but I am new
> to the listserv so.....
>
> I run an online chat forum with Mailman, and several people are not
> getting all the messages.  Occasionally I get a message saying "Domain
> <omitted> has exceeded the max emails per hour.  Message discarded."
> What does that mean?  What is the maximum number of emails per hour
> permitted?
>
>  I have looked through the FAQs but nothing there could help me.
> Everyone on the list signed up themselves, and each have written
> something in the last few days so nobody is notifying their ISP that
> it is spam.  I have told everyone to search their spam folders just in
> case, and they do that now as well.
>
> Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Dawn Kolb
> dawn.kolb at gmail.com
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/wes9999%40myfastmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>   

From brian at emwd.com  Fri Aug 10 16:20:57 2007
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 10:20:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] max emails exceeded
In-Reply-To: <2d1d74650708100631q30d3c187p92e01108ef1b59ff@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2d1d74650708100631q30d3c187p92e01108ef1b59ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAPy4MrPRNNZGh9IPjC9bIqvCgAAAEAAAAMK1Iw3YutdCiLbIgv2vvZIBAAAAAA==@emwd.com>

Hi Dawn:

You are probably on a cpanel server. To get the answer to your question, "
What is the maximum number of emails per hour permitted?" you should contact
your hosting provider. They are ones that have set this limit.

Kind regards,
Brian Carpenter
--------------------------------------
EMWD -  Executive Officer
 

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Dawn
Kolb
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 9:31 AM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] max emails exceeded

 I don't know if this issue has been brought up before, but I am new
to the listserv so.....

I run an online chat forum with Mailman, and several people are not
getting all the messages.  Occasionally I get a message saying "Domain
<omitted> has exceeded the max emails per hour.  Message discarded."
What does that mean?  What is the maximum number of emails per hour
permitted?

 I have looked through the FAQs but nothing there could help me.
Everyone on the list signed up themselves, and each have written
something in the last few days so nobody is notifying their ISP that
it is spam.  I have told everyone to search their spam folders just in
case, and they do that now as well.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Dawn Kolb
dawn.kolb at gmail.com
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brian%40emwd.com

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From donald.teed at gmail.com  Fri Aug 10 16:28:55 2007
From: donald.teed at gmail.com (D G Teed)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:28:55 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Any problem with removing lower case list name
	conversion in newlist?
Message-ID: <dd4da0390708100728j39a91fd7k18050998628e72be@mail.gmail.com>

Inside newlist there is a line:

   listname = listname.lower()

Is there any hard reason this can't be removed so that list names
are created in the original case entered?

Also, I'd like the subject prefix to keep that
original case when lists are created by default.
What would be the best place to set that preference?

--Donald

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Aug 10 19:09:04 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 12:09:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hold_these_nonmembers
In-Reply-To: <20070810110940.GJ6990@sitsika>
References: <20070809183044.GB6990@sitsika>
	<p06240803c2e1712e93d6@[192.168.1.199]> <20070810110940.GJ6990@sitsika>
Message-ID: <p06240800c2e24b3baf26@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/10/07, Par Leijonhufvud wrote:

>  My concern with going that route is twofold:
>
>         1. Stability over future upgrades

I believe that Mark has already said that this patch (or something 
very much like it) will be added to the official Mailman code in the 
near future, so I would think that the only problem might be that 
it's not incorporated in the very next version and that you might 
have to re-apply the patch when you upgrade.

>         2. I know the list-admins, and I do not trust all of them to get
>            a two step process right every time.

Fair enough.

>  Would my solution work?

Let's go back to that:

|                                                        ... I can extract
| membership lists with the list_members command (using sort and uniq to
| fix any duplications) and then add them using config_list.

As far as this goes, it does seem like it should work.

| Is this a sane plan?  Will the world end if someone is both a member and
| is in the hold_these_nonmembers list,

The world should not end, and Mailman should not crash.

|                                       or can I use one single master
| list of "everyone"? Which takes precendence?

You should be able to have a master list of "everyone", but I 
couldn't tell you which takes precedence.  You'd need to hear from 
Mark, Tokio, or Barry on that.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From par at hunter-gatherer.org  Fri Aug 10 21:32:58 2007
From: par at hunter-gatherer.org (Par Leijonhufvud)
Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 21:32:58 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hold_these_nonmembers
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c2e24b3baf26@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <20070809183044.GB6990@sitsika>
	<p06240803c2e1712e93d6@[192.168.1.199]>
	<20070810110940.GJ6990@sitsika>
	<p06240800c2e24b3baf26@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <20070810193258.GK6990@sitsika>

Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> [2007.08.10] wrote:
> I believe that Mark has already said that this patch (or something 
> very much like it) will be added to the official Mailman code in the 
> near future, so I would think that the only problem might be that 
> it's not incorporated in the very next version and that you might 
> have to re-apply the patch when you upgrade.

If so that is an argument in favour (except that I like the freeBSD
ports system...)

> |                                                        ... I can extract
> | membership lists with the list_members command (using sort and uniq to
> | fix any duplications) and then add them using config_list.
> 
> As far as this goes, it does seem like it should work.

Good.

> | Is this a sane plan?  Will the world end if someone is both a member and
> | is in the hold_these_nonmembers list,
> 
> The world should not end, and Mailman should not crash.

Good one at least the latter bit (I'll leave the question open on the
first).

> |                                       or can I use one single master
> | list of "everyone"? Which takes precendence?
> 
> You should be able to have a master list of "everyone", but I 
> couldn't tell you which takes precedence.  You'd need to hear from 
> Mark, Tokio, or Barry on that.

I'll avait an authorative comment before implementing, or code around the
problem. I culd of course run an experiment, but that would
leave a nagging doubt that things *allways* will work in the same
order.  

/Par

-- 
Par Leijonhufvud                               par at hunter-gatherer.org
Prisons are built with stones of law, brothels with bricks of Religion.
		-- William Blake

From td3201 at gmail.com  Sun Aug 12 23:46:55 2007
From: td3201 at gmail.com (Terry)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2007 16:46:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] apache permissions issue
Message-ID: <8ee061010708121446p19466504sc7df08ffcb9ee49a@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

The lists appear to be working fine.  However, I cannot perform any
administrative functions via the web interface.  It does not return
any errors when I submit and I can't see any errors in the apache
error log for that vhost.   I tried adding the apache user to the
mailman group with no luck.  Any other ideas?

Thanks!

From donald.teed at gmail.com  Mon Aug 13 16:45:50 2007
From: donald.teed at gmail.com (D G Teed)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:45:50 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Any problem with removing lower case list name
	conversion in newlist?
In-Reply-To: <dd4da0390708100728j39a91fd7k18050998628e72be@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd4da0390708100728j39a91fd7k18050998628e72be@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dd4da0390708130745q289a38celdea1eabb34c0f935@mail.gmail.com>

It doesn't really matter if the list name is in any particular case,
but I'd like the DEFAULT_SUBJECT_PREFIX
to keep the original case of the list name.  Because we have
lists named after course names, it would look a little odd for
only the first char to be upper case (e.g. [Srmk4563a1] rather than
[SRMK4563A1].

Looking at MailList.py, I see where realname is being set:

        self.real_name = internalname[0].upper() + internalname[1:]

I considered adding another variable on the next line and then
reference that in  my defaults file.  However, I think it
would require that I map all of my lists to uppercase
in the new variable, since it seems like the original name
is converted to lowercase internally when the list is created.
I'm not sure whether mapping all mailing lists to upper case
for the DEFAULT_SUBJECT_PREFIX would be acceptable.

So it gets back to my original question, which I have googled and
can't see the answer: can I safely remove the line inside the newlist
script which maps the list name to lowercase?

--Donald

On 8/10/07, D G Teed <donald.teed at gmail.com> wrote:
> Inside newlist there is a line:
>
>    listname = listname.lower()
>
> Is there any hard reason this can't be removed so that list names
> are created in the original case entered?
>
> Also, I'd like the subject prefix to keep that
> original case when lists are created by default.
> What would be the best place to set that preference?
>
> --Donald
>

From cwaltham at bowdoin.edu  Mon Aug 13 22:08:14 2007
From: cwaltham at bowdoin.edu (Chris Waltham)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 16:08:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to protect list archives?
Message-ID: <182B0B54-8A28-4252-A991-2AEB062F486D@bowdoin.edu>

Is there a relatively straightforward mechanism to protecting list  
archives from prying eyes? From what I can tell, anyone that can  
guess the URL of the archives (e.g. www.foo.org/pipermail/listname)  
can view the archives of the list, even if they're not a subscriber  
to the list.

Rather than make a .htaccess file for each list, or even disable  
archives altogether, what can I do to secure this? This is with  
mailman-2.1.9, built-in pipermail on RHEL 4. I have ~ 830 lists with  
a couple hundred messages per list, on average.

Thanks,


Chris



From brian at emwd.com  Mon Aug 13 22:59:30 2007
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 16:59:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML Filtering
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAPy4MrPRNNZGh9IPjC9bIqvCgAAAEAAAADWMiP54xSFPnR2LAn+uRqMBAAAAAA==@emwd.com>

Hi All:

 

I have a client who has some members that use a translation software to
translate list messages. The client has the list configured to convert html
to plain text. However certain characters still make it through the
conversion process:

 

&lt

&gt

&quot

 

Is this normal or is there a mis-configuration somewhere? Is mailman not
supposed to strip these types of characters out? I am running version 2.1.9.


 

Thanks for any help.

 

Kind regards,

Brian Carpenter

--------------------------------------

EMWD -  Executive Officer

 


From andersonthomas at gmail.com  Mon Aug 13 23:24:49 2007
From: andersonthomas at gmail.com (Thomas Anderson)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 23:24:49 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to enable piping in /etc/aliases?
Message-ID: <46C0CC21.8070707@gmail.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I want to enable piping in /etc/aliases. GNU/Debian Etch has piping
disabled by default and that makes Mailman not work with Exim4.

- --
Regards,

Thomas Anderson
"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur"

OpenPGP fingerprint: ED7E 1E98 225A 3FCC 458C B3D7 D625 20E6 F316 BD21
OpenPGP public key: http://todu.dyndns.org/pubkey.txt
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Aug 14 00:25:03 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 17:25:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to protect list archives?
In-Reply-To: <182B0B54-8A28-4252-A991-2AEB062F486D@bowdoin.edu>
References: <182B0B54-8A28-4252-A991-2AEB062F486D@bowdoin.edu>
Message-ID: <p06240801c2e68a04687c@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/13/07, Chris Waltham wrote:

>  Is there a relatively straightforward mechanism to protecting list
>  archives from prying eyes? From what I can tell, anyone that can
>  guess the URL of the archives (e.g. www.foo.org/pipermail/listname)
>  can view the archives of the list, even if they're not a subscriber
>  to the list.

Make the archives private, and only subscribers will be able to log 
in and see it.  This is independent of whether or not the list itself 
is advertised or not.

>  Rather than make a .htaccess file for each list, or even disable
>  archives altogether, what can I do to secure this? This is with
>  mailman-2.1.9, built-in pipermail on RHEL 4. I have ~ 830 lists with
>  a couple hundred messages per list, on average.

You shouldn't need to do anything unusual here.  For a single list, 
you should be able to go to the web admin page for the list, then go 
down to the "Archiving Options" section, and click the radio button 
to make the archives private as opposed to public, then click the 
button at the bottom which says "Submit Your Changes".

Now, for automating this for ~830 lists, you'll probably want to do 
that using a "withlist" script and a bit of Python code.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Aug 14 05:52:51 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 22:52:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML Filtering
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAPy4MrPRNNZGh9IPjC9bIqvCgAAAEAAAADWMiP54xSFPnR2LAn
	+uRqMBAAAAAA==@emwd.com>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAPy4MrPRNNZGh9IPjC9bIqvCgAAAEAAAADWMiP54xSFPnR2LAn
	+uRqMBAAAAAA==@emwd.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c2e6d7037475@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/13/07, Brian Carpenter wrote:

>  I have a client who has some members that use a translation software to
>  translate list messages. The client has the list configured to convert html
>  to plain text. However certain characters still make it through the
>  conversion process:

The actual conversion is done by a command-line program that you can 
specify during the build/installation process, but defaults to 
something like:

HTML_TO_PLAIN_TEXT_COMMAND = '/usr/local/bin/lynx -dump %(filename)s'

If you have a better command to use for handling the filtering, you 
could make this change in your mm_cfg.py file, and that should 
resolve your issue.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Aug 14 05:50:11 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 22:50:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to enable piping in /etc/aliases?
In-Reply-To: <46C0CC21.8070707@gmail.com>
References: <46C0CC21.8070707@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c2e6d6965add@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/13/07, Thomas Anderson wrote:

>  I want to enable piping in /etc/aliases. GNU/Debian Etch has piping
>  disabled by default and that makes Mailman not work with Exim4.

This is a Debian/Etch or Exim problem, and has nothing to do with 
Mailman, except that Mailman gets caught by the fallout.

Try using their documentation, their FAQs, their mailing lists, 
etc... to sort out this issue.  You're not likely to be able to get 
anything in the way of support on an OS or MTA-specific question like 
this on a mailing list devoted to supporting Mailman.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From andersonthomas at gmail.com  Tue Aug 14 12:35:29 2007
From: andersonthomas at gmail.com (Thomas Anderson)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 12:35:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to enable piping in /etc/aliases?
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c2e6d6965add@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <46C0CC21.8070707@gmail.com>
	<p06240800c2e6d6965add@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <46C18571.3090207@gmail.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

>>  I want to enable piping in /etc/aliases. GNU/Debian Etch has piping
>>  disabled by default and that makes Mailman not work with Exim4.
> 
> This is a Debian/Etch or Exim problem, and has nothing to do with
> Mailman, except that Mailman gets caught by the fallout.

I was hoping someone reading this mailing list has had the same problem
and could share the solution.

> Try using their documentation, their FAQs, their mailing lists, etc...
> to sort out this issue.  You're not likely to be able to get anything in
> the way of support on an OS or MTA-specific question like this on a
> mailing list devoted to supporting Mailman.

I tried to ask the question at Debians mailing list before I asked here.
I guess it has equally little to do with Exim as it has with Mailman.
Asking here was the last resort since no one answered me on the Debian
list. I'll try to ask at the Exim list. In the meantime; if anyone knows
the answer on this list, feel free to enlighten me :).

Thanks for your directions though.

- --
Regards,

Thomas Anderson
"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur"

OpenPGP fingerprint: ED7E 1E98 225A 3FCC 458C B3D7 D625 20E6 F316 BD21
OpenPGP public key: http://todu.dyndns.org/pubkey.txt
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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XaWoHCFYb5+9Bc9kqM5xasA=
=m4Iu
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From fliggle at pobox.com  Tue Aug 14 14:35:03 2007
From: fliggle at pobox.com (fliggle at pobox.com)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:35:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Does mailman have email commands for administrators?
Message-ID: <46C1A177.3030000@pobox.com>

Does mailman have any email commands that would allow a list admin to 
subscribe/unsubscribe list members?
If you know that it does or does not, please reply with that info.  If 
it does, do you know how can I learn about them?
Thanks!

From cwaltham at bowdoin.edu  Tue Aug 14 15:00:45 2007
From: cwaltham at bowdoin.edu (Chris Waltham)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:00:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to protect list archives?
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c2e68a04687c@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <182B0B54-8A28-4252-A991-2AEB062F486D@bowdoin.edu>
	<p06240801c2e68a04687c@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <B5A6F27D-9746-4D24-966D-9B1650672C78@bowdoin.edu>

On Aug 13, 2007, at 6:25 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:

> On 8/13/07, Chris Waltham wrote:
>
>>  Is there a relatively straightforward mechanism to protecting list
>>  archives from prying eyes? From what I can tell, anyone that can
>>  guess the URL of the archives (e.g. www.foo.org/pipermail/listname)
>>  can view the archives of the list, even if they're not a subscriber
>>  to the list.
>
> Make the archives private, and only subscribers will be able to log  
> in and see it.  This is independent of whether or not the list  
> itself is advertised or not.

Thanks Brad, I got this suggestion privately right about the same  
time you sent this one. :-)

>
>>  Rather than make a .htaccess file for each list, or even disable
>>  archives altogether, what can I do to secure this? This is with
>>  mailman-2.1.9, built-in pipermail on RHEL 4. I have ~ 830 lists with
>>  a couple hundred messages per list, on average.
>
> You shouldn't need to do anything unusual here.  For a single list,  
> you should be able to go to the web admin page for the list, then  
> go down to the "Archiving Options" section, and click the radio  
> button to make the archives private as opposed to public, then  
> click the button at the bottom which says "Submit Your Changes".
>
> Now, for automating this for ~830 lists, you'll probably want to do  
> that using a "withlist" script and a bit of Python code.

I'll try searching the archives to see if there's a command to do  
what I want, otherwise I could just input and output some config  
files and run sed over them ;-)


Chris



From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Tue Aug 14 18:17:29 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:17:29 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML-format Attachments in the List Archives
Message-ID: <200708141617.l7EGHTVs000478@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

I have a question about Mailman 2.1.9 archives and HTML attachments.
I have a list where the poster has sent mail that contains

     This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

     --===============7294073253759616889==
     Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
     Content-Type: multipart/related;
	     boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7DE7E.868176F5";
	     type="multipart/alternative"

     This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

     ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7DE7E.868176F5
     Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	     boundary="----_=_NextPart_002_01C7DE7E.868176F5"


     ------_=_NextPart_002_01C7DE7E.868176F5
     Content-Type: text/plain;
	     charset="iso-8859-1"
     Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
	  {The text of the mail in q-p format}
     ------_=_NextPart_002_01C7DE7E.868176F5
     Content-Type: text/html;
	     charset="iso-8859-1"
     Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
	  {HTML-format of the text}
     ------_=_NextPart_002_01C7DE7E.868176F5--

     ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7DE7E.868176F5
     Content-Type: image/gif;
	     name="att6e63a.gif"
     Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
     Content-ID: <814212114 at 14082007-29C6>
     Content-Description: att6e63a.gif
     Content-Location: att6e63a.gif
	  {a small gif image}
     ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7DE7E.868176F5
     Content-Type: image/jpeg;
	     name="ray.jpg"
     Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
     Content-Description: ray.jpg
     Content-Location: http:/....
	  {a jpg image}
     --===============7294073253759616889==
     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
     MIME-Version: 1.0
     Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
     Content-Disposition: inline
	  {the list footer from Mailman}>
     --===============7294073253759616889==--

When I look at the mail in the list archives, my Firefox browser in
Unix shows

     The plain text of the message, converted from q-p format to basic
     ASCII text.
     ------------- next part --------------
     An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
     URL: https:.../attachment.htm
     -------------- next part --------------
     A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
     Name: not available
     Type: image/gif
     Size: 1857 bytes
     Desc: att6e63a.gif
     Url : https://.../attachment.gif 
     -------------- next part --------------
     A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
     Name: not available
     Type: image/jpeg
     Size: 14513 bytes
     Desc: ray.jpg
     Url : https://.../attachment.jpeg 

When I click on the .gif or .jpeg hyperlinks, I see the images.
But when I click on the .htm hyperlink, I see the HTML text.
If I take that HTML text, save it to /tmp, and then open that file
with Firefox, I see the mail message properly formatted.

I have looked at the ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER variable in Defaults.py,
and I am not clear what value to set so that the .htm hyperlink
will display the formatted HTML source instead of the raw HTML source.
Is this the parameter that I need to change?

I do not do much with HTML-formatted attachments, as I (like others
on this list) believe that they do not belong in e-mail.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Aug 14 23:44:26 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:44:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to enable piping in /etc/aliases?
In-Reply-To: <46C18571.3090207@gmail.com>
References: <46C0CC21.8070707@gmail.com>
	<p06240800c2e6d6965add@[192.168.1.199]> <46C18571.3090207@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c2e7d21e4f39@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/14/07, Thomas Anderson wrote:

>>  This is a Debian/Etch or Exim problem, and has nothing to do with
>>  Mailman, except that Mailman gets caught by the fallout.
>
>  I was hoping someone reading this mailing list has had the same problem
>  and could share the solution.

I understand, but the problem is that there are a lot more people 
running Debian/Etch and/or Exim who are likely to have run into this 
problem and who are subscribed to their respective mailing lists, as 
opposed to running the exact same configuration you are and 
subscribed to this one.

We support a wide variety of OSes and several different MTAs, in 
conjunction with Mailman.  That said, we don't have that many 
subscribers as a whole.  So, the odds of finding someone here with 
the exact same configuration you do is pretty slim.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Aug 14 23:49:49 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:49:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Does mailman have email commands for
 administrators?
In-Reply-To: <46C1A177.3030000@pobox.com>
References: <46C1A177.3030000@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <p06240802c2e7d2e17d0f@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/14/07, fliggle at pobox.com wrote:

>  Does mailman have any email commands that would allow a list admin to
>  subscribe/unsubscribe list members?

Mailman doesn't have a whole lot of e-mail commands that it supports. 
There are e-mail commands that users can use when interacting with 
Mailman, but that would mean that your list admin would have to forge 
e-mail as coming from a given user in order to request that they be 
subscribed, etc....

As far as the admin side of the house is concerned, you're expected 
to do pretty much everything either via the web administrative 
interface, or via the command-line interface while logged into the 
server.

>  If you know that it does or does not, please reply with that info.  If
>  it does, do you know how can I learn about them?

So far, the only e-mail interface documentation I know of is at 
<http://www.list.org/mailman-member/node10.html>, and is intended for 
end-users and not admins.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Aug 14 23:52:36 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:52:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML-format Attachments in the List Archives
In-Reply-To: <200708141617.l7EGHTVs000478@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
References: <200708141617.l7EGHTVs000478@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <p06240803c2e7d432cc09@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/14/07, Barry Finkel wrote:

>  When I click on the .gif or .jpeg hyperlinks, I see the images.
>  But when I click on the .htm hyperlink, I see the HTML text.
>  If I take that HTML text, save it to /tmp, and then open that file
>  with Firefox, I see the mail message properly formatted.

I believe that this is likely a problem with the mimetypes database 
on your webserver.  It's sending the file as a text/plain when it 
should be using an HTML MIME type.

>  I have looked at the ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER variable in Defaults.py,
>  and I am not clear what value to set so that the .htm hyperlink
>  will display the formatted HTML source instead of the raw HTML source.
>  Is this the parameter that I need to change?

I don't think that this has anything to do with Mailman or Python, 
but I may be wrong.  At the very least, check out your mimetypes 
database for your webserver and see if there's anything obvious there.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From andersonthomas at gmail.com  Wed Aug 15 01:42:14 2007
From: andersonthomas at gmail.com (Thomas Anderson)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 01:42:14 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to enable piping in /etc/aliases?
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c2e7d21e4f39@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <46C0CC21.8070707@gmail.com>
	<p06240800c2e6d6965add@[192.168.1.199]>
	<46C18571.3090207@gmail.com>
	<p06240801c2e7d21e4f39@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <46C23DD6.9000902@gmail.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

>>>  This is a Debian/Etch or Exim problem, and has nothing to do with
>>>  Mailman, except that Mailman gets caught by the fallout.
>>
>>  I was hoping someone reading this mailing list has had the same problem
>>  and could share the solution.
> 
> I understand, but the problem is that there are a lot more people
> running Debian/Etch and/or Exim who are likely to have run into this
> problem and who are subscribed to their respective mailing lists, as
> opposed to running the exact same configuration you are and subscribed
> to this one.
> 
> We support a wide variety of OSes and several different MTAs, in
> conjunction with Mailman.  That said, we don't have that many
> subscribers as a whole.  So, the odds of finding someone here with the
> exact same configuration you do is pretty slim.

Thanks for the explanation of the circumstances. I got a tip from
another forum on the internet. It suggested to try to replace Exim4 with
Postfix because it is claimed not to have piping disabled and that it is
tightly compatible with Mailman. I post this here in case someone
googles this lists archives.

- --
Regards,

Thomas Anderson
"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur"

OpenPGP fingerprint: ED7E 1E98 225A 3FCC 458C B3D7 D625 20E6 F316 BD21
OpenPGP public key: http://todu.dyndns.org/pubkey.txt
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFGwj3W1iUg5vMWvSERAouQAJ9GRGYuEbVcjFuCSJ5SKduihbKDwgCgsNJO
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From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Aug 15 05:38:28 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 22:38:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to enable piping in /etc/aliases?
In-Reply-To: <46C23DD6.9000902@gmail.com>
References: <46C0CC21.8070707@gmail.com>
	<p06240800c2e6d6965add@[192.168.1.199]>	<46C18571.3090207@gmail.com>
	<p06240801c2e7d21e4f39@[192.168.1.199]> <46C23DD6.9000902@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c2e8244d9270@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/15/07, Thomas Anderson wrote:

>  Thanks for the explanation of the circumstances. I got a tip from
>  another forum on the internet. It suggested to try to replace Exim4 with
>  Postfix because it is claimed not to have piping disabled and that it is
>  tightly compatible with Mailman. I post this here in case someone
>  googles this lists archives.

Certainly, postfix is known to work well with Mailman.  We use it in 
conjunction with the various Mailman-hosted mailing lists at 
python.org.  However, sendmail also works fine, and I also know that 
a number of people have set up Exim to work well.


In the case of Exim, I believe that the recommended method is to use 
their "router" feature, so that you don't need to set up any aliases, 
and therefore you presumably wouldn't need to use piping in your 
aliases file.

However, if you are unable or unwilling to use the Exim "router" 
solution, I believe that they can also make use of the standard 
aliases file, including the use of pipes.

That said, beyond the Exim documentation that we link to, provided at 
<http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman.html>, I'm not personally familiar 
with how to integrate Mailman and Exim.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From pkey at sgul.ac.uk  Wed Aug 15 11:56:16 2007
From: pkey at sgul.ac.uk (Paul Key)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:56:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribing by email?
Message-ID: <46C2CDC0.8010900@sgul.ac.uk>

Mailman 2.1.3
Solaris 9

Hi

I am looking to get users to subscribe and unsubscribe from certain 
lists using email.  I am getting them to emal 
<listname>-request at blah.blah with "subscribe" in the message body. This 
works fine with an empty subject field (they get one confirmation email 
as expected) but if they put a subject on the subscription request email 
they receive two subscription confirmation emails from mailman in reply. 
Anyone no why this happens?  They would like to put something in the 
subject.

Also does mailman 2.1.3 support the sending of a blank email to 
<listname>-subscribe at blah.blah ? (or some similar address) instead of 
the subscribe email via request?

Thanks

Paul

From bcanty at apsa.org  Wed Aug 15 16:15:51 2007
From: bcanty at apsa.org (Brian Canty)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:15:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe Message
Message-ID: <6B3A7025196C1A49AABB0E6C80AD5AE2917FDD@apsaserv.APSA.local>

I have looked in the FAQ and can not seem to find how you can modify the
standard unsubscribe message.  Can someone tell me if there is somewhere
on the menu where this can be done or does it have to be done in a CF
file.

Thanks


Brian Canty
Manager Computer Information Services
American Psychoanalytic Association
212-752-0450 x17



From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Aug 15 20:47:03 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:47:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe Message
In-Reply-To: <6B3A7025196C1A49AABB0E6C80AD5AE2917FDD@apsaserv.APSA.local>
References: <6B3A7025196C1A49AABB0E6C80AD5AE2917FDD@apsaserv.APSA.local>
Message-ID: <p06240803c2e8fa1aaebe@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/15/07, Brian Canty wrote:

>  I have looked in the FAQ and can not seem to find how you can modify the
>  standard unsubscribe message.  Can someone tell me if there is somewhere
>  on the menu where this can be done or does it have to be done in a CF
>  file.

Go to the main web admin page for your list.  Scroll down to the 
field where it says "Edit goodbye_msg" and right below that is 
"send_goodbye_msg".

However, whatever you put in this field would simply be added to the 
standard "goodbye message", and not in place of it.  If you wanted to 
replace the standard goodby message, I think you'd need to modify the 
source code.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Aug 15 20:44:29 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:44:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribing by email?
In-Reply-To: <46C2CDC0.8010900@sgul.ac.uk>
References: <46C2CDC0.8010900@sgul.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <p06240802c2e8f97f8a9d@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/15/07, Paul Key wrote:

>  Mailman 2.1.3
>  Solaris 9

Keep in mind that Mailman 2.1.3 is pretty old, and there have been 
several security-related releases since then.  I would strongly 
encourage you to upgrade to the latest version, which is 2.1.9.

>  I am looking to get users to subscribe and unsubscribe from certain
>  lists using email.  I am getting them to emal
>  <listname>-request at blah.blah with "subscribe" in the message body. This
>  works fine with an empty subject field (they get one confirmation email
>  as expected) but if they put a subject on the subscription request email
>  they receive two subscription confirmation emails from mailman in reply.
>  Anyone no why this happens?  They would like to put something in the
>  subject.

I'm not sure, but I'd suggest looking through the list of bugs on the 
Mailman Sourceforge page.  This sounds vaguely familiar, and I 
suspect that this is an old problem which has since been fixed.

>  Also does mailman 2.1.3 support the sending of a blank email to
>  <listname>-subscribe at blah.blah ? (or some similar address) instead of
>  the subscribe email via request?

Sure.  Just set up your aliases to support that.  Mailman doesn't 
actually see anything of the addresses that were used to submit the 
messages, it just takes the command-line options it's passed via the 
alias definition.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From cjgeier at wisc.edu  Wed Aug 15 22:06:54 2007
From: cjgeier at wisc.edu (Chris Geier)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:06:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new users not getting email
Message-ID: <001601c7df77$d3c71390$0402a8c0@ad.ophth.wisc.edu>

I have a problem that just started.

Any new email addresses I add to my lists do not get any email.

It says that they were successfully added to the lists and they show up
under the membership.

Users added before last week are all getting the emails.

Any ideas why new additions are not getting the mail?

Thanks.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Aug 16 05:33:49 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:33:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new users not getting email
In-Reply-To: <001601c7df77$d3c71390$0402a8c0@ad.ophth.wisc.edu>
References: <001601c7df77$d3c71390$0402a8c0@ad.ophth.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <p06240802c2e975dfb132@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/15/07, Chris Geier wrote:

>  Any new email addresses I add to my lists do not get any email.
>
>  It says that they were successfully added to the lists and they show up
>  under the membership.
>
>  Users added before last week are all getting the emails.

As a first step, search the FAQ Wizard for "troubleshooting", and 
follow the guidelines there.  If that doesn't turn up anything, come 
back and tell us what you got at each stage, and we'll see if we can 
provide any more specific assistance.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From nbogaty at idpf.org  Thu Aug 16 12:05:27 2007
From: nbogaty at idpf.org (nbogaty at idpf.org)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 03:05:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Out of the Office Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 42,
	Issue 27
Message-ID: <84AAED9495D54887894BB4CE8D2E652A@secureserver.net>

I will be out of the office beginning on Friday, August 17th and will return to the office on Monday, August 27th.  I will be checking email only occasionally.  If this is an emergency, you can leave a voicemail at 212-924-9081.  Otherwise, I will respond to your email when I return to the office on 8/27.

Thanks,
Nick Bogaty

--
Nick Bogaty
Executive Director
International Digital Publishing Forum (IDPF)
nbogaty at idpf.org
www.idpf.org
(212) 924-9081 direct
(212) 208-0978 fax



From bert.homveld at milieudefensie.nl  Thu Aug 16 12:27:06 2007
From: bert.homveld at milieudefensie.nl (Bert Homveld)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 12:27:06 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restore deleted list!
Message-ID: <46C4267A.5010308@milieudefensie.nl>

Dear Mailman-users,

How can I restore a mailinglist, which has been deleted?

Greetings,

Bert Homveld
ICT




From pablo at lacnic.net  Thu Aug 16 16:54:19 2007
From: pablo at lacnic.net (Pablo Allietti)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:54:19 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Traslator?
Message-ID: <20070816145419.GA77943@micron2.lacnic.net.uy>

Hi all i have running mailman in my server and i received in a list
messages from 3 members languages

English - Spanish - French

is possible to use any tool to traslate this messages in a web like 

http://www.carisnet.org/index.php?path=en/prj_imp

this server have a list and the mailman file, and traslate any message
automagically to the 3 languages..
-- 


From tmz at pobox.com  Thu Aug 16 17:40:59 2007
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:40:59 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribing by email?
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c2e8f97f8a9d@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <46C2CDC0.8010900@sgul.ac.uk>
	<p06240802c2e8f97f8a9d@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <20070816154059.GM29583@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>>  Also does mailman 2.1.3 support the sending of a blank email to
>>  <listname>-subscribe at blah.blah ? (or some similar address) instead
>>  of the subscribe email via request?
> 
> Sure.  Just set up your aliases to support that.  Mailman doesn't
> actually see anything of the addresses that were used to submit the
> messages, it just takes the command-line options it's passed via the
> alias definition.

There should be no need to add aliases for that, they already exist.
The <listname>-join (and <listname>-leave) aliases will ignore the
subject and body.

The mailman list admin manual says this:

1.1 A List's Email Addresses

[...]

  ? mylist-join at example.com - by sending a message to this address, a
    new member can request subscription to the list. Both the
    Subject: header and body of such a message are ignored. Note that
    mylist-subscribe at example.com is an alias for the -join address.

  ? mylist-leave at example.com - by sending a message to this address,
    a member can request unsubscription from the list. As with the
    -join address, the Subject: header and body of the message is
    ignored. Note that mylist-unsubscribe at example.com is an alias for
    the -leave address.

I don't know for sure if these were in 2.1.3, but I suspect they were.

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't
matter and those who matter don't mind.
    -- Dr Seuss, "Oh the Places You'll Go"

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From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Aug 16 22:01:52 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:01:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restore deleted list!
In-Reply-To: <46C4267A.5010308@milieudefensie.nl>
References: <46C4267A.5010308@milieudefensie.nl>
Message-ID: <p06240803c2ea5d89fda2@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/16/07, Bert Homveld wrote:

>  How can I restore a mailinglist, which has been deleted?

Restore the affected Python "pickle" files from your most recent backup.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at python.org  Thu Aug 16 22:01:00 2007
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:01:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Out of the Office Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 42,
 Issue 27
In-Reply-To: <84AAED9495D54887894BB4CE8D2E652A@secureserver.net>
References: <84AAED9495D54887894BB4CE8D2E652A@secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <p06240802c2ea5c8cc22a@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/16/07, <nbogaty at idpf.org> wrote:

>  I will be out of the office beginning on Friday, August 17th and will
>  return to the office on Monday, August 27th.  I will be checking email
>  only occasionally.  If this is an emergency, you can leave a voicemail
>  at 212-924-9081.  Otherwise, I will respond to your email when I return
>  to the office on 8/27.

Your out-of-office auto-reply went out to the entire mailing list. 
This is not appropriate.

I've set you to NOMAIL and moderated, and when you get back in the 
office you can come talk to us about the problems your auto-responder 
has caused -- please send a note to postmaster at python.org.  If we can 
be convinced that this problem will not recur, we will allow you to 
be unmoderated and to start receiving mail again from the list.

And yes, I did mean for a copy of this response to be posted to the 
list as well.

>
>Thanks,
>Nick Bogaty
>
>--
>Nick Bogaty
>Executive Director
>International Digital Publishing Forum (IDPF)
>nbogaty at idpf.org
>www.idpf.org
>(212) 924-9081 direct
>(212) 208-0978 fax
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe: 
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brad%40shub-internet.org
>
>Security Policy: 
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>
Member of the Python.org Postmaster Team
Co-moderator of mailman-users and mailman-developers mailing lists

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From Daniel.A.Ojo at noaa.gov  Fri Aug 17 00:27:03 2007
From: Daniel.A.Ojo at noaa.gov (Daniel Ojo)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:27:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto-discard notification
Message-ID: <46C4CF37.4010407@noaa.gov>

Help,

I am trying to send a message to a list I am an owner of and I received this 
message.


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 	Auto-discard notification
Date: 	Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:45:40 -0400
From: 	list-bounces at mydomain.com
To: 	list-owner at mydomain.com


The attached message has been automatically discarded.


Anyone have an idea what the issue is?

Thanks, Daniel.




From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Fri Aug 17 01:03:16 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 16:03:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto-discard notification
In-Reply-To: <46C4CF37.4010407@noaa.gov>
References: <46C4CF37.4010407@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <200708162303.l7GN2Op7003149@unreal.eroded.org>

Daniel Ojo sent the message below at 15:27 8/16/2007:
>Help,
>
>I am trying to send a message to a list I am an owner of and I received this
>message.
>
>
>-------- Original Message --------
>Subject:        Auto-discard notification
>Date:   Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:45:40 -0400
>From:   list-bounces at mydomain.com
>To:     list-owner at mydomain.com
>
>
>The attached message has been automatically discarded.
>
>
>Anyone have an idea what the issue is?
>
>Thanks, Daniel.
>
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

The owner and/or moderator are not automatically members of a list, 
in order to post to a members only list, you must be subscribed to it 
and have your moderation bit turned off.

If you are not a member and you have the non-member post action set 
to discard, the post you attempt to send will be discarded.


Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From dawn.kolb at gmail.com  Fri Aug 17 01:35:52 2007
From: dawn.kolb at gmail.com (Dawn Kolb)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:35:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Out of the Office Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 42,
	Issue 27
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c2ea5c8cc22a@192.168.1.199>
References: <84AAED9495D54887894BB4CE8D2E652A@secureserver.net>
	<p06240802c2ea5c8cc22a@192.168.1.199>
Message-ID: <2d1d74650708161635o6885cfc2y6e59c7752173a9ab@mail.gmail.com>

Am I missing something?  What problems did his auto-responder cause?  I just
want to know in case I forget to disable any lists that I am on.  Or is it
something specific to him because he is a co-moderator of this list?

Dawn Kolb

On 8/16/07, Brad Knowles <brad at python.org> wrote:
>
> On 8/16/07, <nbogaty at idpf.org> wrote:
>
> >  I will be out of the office beginning on Friday, August 17th and will
> >  return to the office on Monday, August 27th.  I will be checking email
> >  only occasionally.  If this is an emergency, you can leave a voicemail
> >  at 212-924-9081.  Otherwise, I will respond to your email when I return
> >  to the office on 8/27.
>
> Your out-of-office auto-reply went out to the entire mailing list.
> This is not appropriate.
>
> I've set you to NOMAIL and moderated, and when you get back in the
> office you can come talk to us about the problems your auto-responder
> has caused -- please send a note to postmaster at python.org.  If we can
> be convinced that this problem will not recur, we will allow you to
> be unmoderated and to start receiving mail again from the list.
>
> And yes, I did mean for a copy of this response to be posted to the
> list as well.
>
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Nick Bogaty
> >
> >--
> >Nick Bogaty
> >Executive Director
> >International Digital Publishing Forum (IDPF)
> >nbogaty at idpf.org
> >www.idpf.org
> >(212) 924-9081 direct
> >(212) 208-0978 fax
>

From xurizaemon at gmail.com  Fri Aug 17 06:08:26 2007
From: xurizaemon at gmail.com (chris burgess)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 16:08:26 +1200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unpack list of wrong size - debugging a single list
Message-ID: <70d16a930708162108g53e0ddeevf5bad7abdcdecb1d@mail.gmail.com>

We run 159 lists for an organisation on Mailman 2.1.5 (Debian Stable).
All other lists appear to be behaving fine, but one list seems to be
having issues. This list (and others) have run fine for several years,
and I don't think

I have done as much debugging as I know how, but I can't get this one
list to behave. I've checked for oversize files, the permissions of
the config directory entries, and even restored the list config.pck
from backups to a version that was working before it stopped. But it
seems the problem isn't any of these, as it persists in gobbling any
incoming mail on that list and putting it in the shunt file.

I'd appreciate any suggestions in how to usefully debug this list from
here - it's knocked out one of our organisation's more active
discussion systems.

Here's an example of what I see in the mailman error log for any
message to this list:

---

Aug 17 15:39:16 2007 (29254) Uncaught runner exception: unpack list of
wrong size
Aug 17 15:39:16 2007 (29254) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153,
in _dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 91, in process
    send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132, in
send_digests
    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 306, in
send_i18n_digests
    msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 273, in process
    url = save_attachment(mlist, part, dir)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 373, in
save_attachment
    fnext = os.path.splitext(msg.get_filename(''))[1]
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Message.py", line 725, in get_filename
    filename = self.get_param('filename', missing, 'content-disposition')
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Message.py", line 608, in get_param
    for k, v in self._get_params_preserve(failobj, header):
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Message.py", line 555, in _get_params_preserve
    params = Utils.decode_params(params)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Utils.py", line 337, in decode_params
    charset, language, value = decode_rfc2231(EMPTYSTRING.join(value))
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Utils.py", line 284, in decode_rfc2231
    charset, language, s = parts
ValueError: unpack list of wrong size

---

This is the resulting pickle file in qfiles/shunt for the same message:

---

[----- start pickle file -----]
<----- start object 1 ----->
>From m.m at domain.com Fri Aug 17 15:39:14 2007
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1])
        by domain.com with smtp (Exim 4.50 #1 (Debian))
        id 1ILsfb-0007gx-Gn
        for <cc at domain.com>; Fri, 17 Aug 2007 15:39:14 +1200
From: m.m at domain.com
To: cc at domain.com
X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1
X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: m.m at domain.com
X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on domain.com); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Subject: [CC] test message
X-BeenThere: cc at domain.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Campaign Committee <cc at domain.com>
List-Id: Campaign Committee <cc.domain.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://domain.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cc>,
        <mailto:cc-request at domain.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://domain.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/cc>
List-Post: <mailto:cc at domain.com>
List-Help: <mailto:cc-request at domain.com?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://domain.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cc>,
        <mailto:cc-request at domain.com?subject=subscribe>

Hi, test here


<----- start object 2 ----->
{   '_parsemsg': False,
    'lang': 'en',
    'listname': 'cc',
    'original_sender': 'm.m at domain.com',
    'origsubj': 'test message',
    'pipeline': [   'ToDigest',
                    'ToArchive',
                    'ToUsenet',
                    'AfterDelivery',
                    'Acknowledge',
                    'ToOutgoing'],
    'received_time': 1187321954.8111341,
    'recips': [   'example at domain.com' ],
    'tolist': 1,
    'version': 3,
    'whichq': '/var/lib/mailman/qfiles/in'}
[----- end pickle file -----]

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Aug 17 06:08:29 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 23:08:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Out of the Office Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 42,
 Issue 27
In-Reply-To: <2d1d74650708161635o6885cfc2y6e59c7752173a9ab@mail.gmail.com>
References: <84AAED9495D54887894BB4CE8D2E652A@secureserver.net>
	<p06240802c2ea5c8cc22a@192.168.1.199>
	<2d1d74650708161635o6885cfc2y6e59c7752173a9ab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240802c2eacefdfb27@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/16/07, Dawn Kolb wrote:

>  Am I missing something?  What problems did his auto-responder cause?

Everyone on the list got a copy.  All auto-responders should be set 
up so that they do not respond to any list traffic.

He's a digest user, so if he were to see another digest, he'd 
generate another auto-response to the whole list.  If he weren't a 
digest user, he'd be generating an auto-response for every single 
post to the list -- including all of his own auto-responses.  Imagine 
if two such people were on the list, so that they both replied to all 
posts on the list, including the auto-responses from the other guy.

That's one of the quickest possible ways to kill a mailing list, and 
to bury all the mailing list recipients with hundreds of thousands or 
millions of copies of the same damn stupid auto-response.

>                                                                        I just
>  want to know in case I forget to disable any lists that I am on.  Or is it
>  something specific to him because he is a co-moderator of this list?

He's not the co-moderator, I am.

And I kill subscriptions from people with bad auto-responders, with 
extreme prejudice.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From dave.list at pixelhammer.com  Fri Aug 17 15:28:57 2007
From: dave.list at pixelhammer.com (DAve)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 09:28:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can this be done using Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c2e02e0ad69e@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <46B88D8C.1050103@pixelhammer.com>
	<p06240800c2ded7e2a492@[192.168.1.199]>
	<46BA0AD6.7000503@pixelhammer.com>
	<p06240801c2e02e0ad69e@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <46C5A299.8070609@pixelhammer.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> On 8/8/07, DAve wrote:
> 
>>  So in the idea of an announcement only list, we should be able to have
>>  the list owner post a message to multiple topics, correct? I did not see
>>  where cross posting a message to multiple topics within a single list
>>  was possible. Do you know if it is?
> 
> I would think so, yes.  But you should probably wait for an answer from 
> someone who knows better how that part of the code actually works, like 
> maybe Mark Sapiro or Tokio.
> 

Doesn't look like that answer is coming, I must be treading new ground. 
Is anyone interested in the answer if I setup a test install and try it?

DAve

-- 
Three years now I've asked Google why they don't have a
logo change for Memorial Day. Why do they choose to do logos
for other non-international holidays, but nothing for
Veterans?

Maybe they forgot who made that choice possible.

From subscribed-lists at sterndata.com  Fri Aug 17 17:52:49 2007
From: subscribed-lists at sterndata.com (Steven Stern)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 10:52:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footers and Outlook: Looking for patch updated to
	2.1.9
Message-ID: <46C5C451.4020902@sterndata.com>

I need to have Outlook compatible footers (i.e., inline) and found a
patch for 2.1.5 here:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2005-February/017850.html

It appears there have been significant changes between 2.1.5 and 2.1.9.
Has anyone updated this for 2.1.9?




From td3201 at gmail.com  Fri Aug 17 18:33:05 2007
From: td3201 at gmail.com (Terry)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 11:33:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] apache permissions issue
In-Reply-To: <8ee061010708121446p19466504sc7df08ffcb9ee49a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8ee061010708121446p19466504sc7df08ffcb9ee49a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8ee061010708170933v3b65974cx50000d9edd3764dd@mail.gmail.com>

Any ideas on this one?

On 8/12/07, Terry <td3201 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> The lists appear to be working fine.  However, I cannot perform any
> administrative functions via the web interface.  It does not return
> any errors when I submit and I can't see any errors in the apache
> error log for that vhost.   I tried adding the apache user to the
> mailman group with no luck.  Any other ideas?
>
> Thanks!
>

From jacartaya at computatio.com  Fri Aug 17 21:27:03 2007
From: jacartaya at computatio.com (Julio A. Cartaya)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 21:27:03 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass defection?
Message-ID: <46C5F687.7030006@computatio.com>

A customer of mine has a broadcast (i.e. one-way), low-traffic list with
close to 3000 members. The list contains a mix of business and personal
addresses.  As usual, the list of member addresses can be seen only by
administrators (private_roster).

The date of the last message broadcasted to members is July 17(this
year).  On Aug 7 we received 2700 messages stating "johndoe at somesite.com
has cancelled his subscription to mylist" (where johndoe at somesite.com
changes - of course - for each cancellation message).

Other relevant data

   * This list has been stable, hovering around 3000 members for 3 years
   * It is unlikely all 2700 decided to drop from the list at the same time
   * The host logs show no sign of intrusion
   * I am inclined to dismiss vandalism, since there are 300 members
     whose suscription was not affected
   * There was no obvious pattern on the email addresses that were dropped

Note this is happening in *Spain*, where the entire country closes
during July and August and flocks to the Mediterranean, so chances are
that many mailboxes are full and rejecting incoming messages. The July
17th message could have caused an avalanche of bounced messages, and
automated bounce processing may have dropped all of those addresses a
few days later (bounce_score_threshold is 4.0,
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings is 3).

In the end, my questions are

  1. *Is bounce processing a plausible cause (all 2700 addresses at the
     same time)?*
  2. *I found no way to distinguish user-driven dropout messages, from
     dropout messages caused by bounce processing; is there any?
     *
  3. *Is there a way to avoid this from happening again next year?
     (other than setting bounce_processing to 'no')*

Clearly this is not the end of the World (we had backups, and members
have been invited to re-join the list), but it is very unsettling for
my customer.

Thanks

Julio
*


*




From juliez at iographix.com  Fri Aug 17 22:08:22 2007
From: juliez at iographix.com (Julie Zbeetnoff)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 13:08:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribing to my list
Message-ID: <1187381302.46c60036460b6@webmail.iographix.com>

After not getting any response and not being able to send out to my list for
over 24 hours. I decided to test the subscription option.

I did not receive confirmation to join my own list but rather I received a
confirmation to join this mailman list which I realize powers my list
googalistic at horizenplus.com

Which brings me to my technical question. What the heck is going on?

Why is my list not working and why am I here and not at Googalistic after
subscribing?

Since it is a public list your prompt attention would be appreciated.

Julie Zbeetnoff

-- 
Free Business Advertising - Advertise for Free. Reach 1000s Instantly :
http://salespider.com/signup.php?id=382871





From Daniel.A.Ojo at noaa.gov  Fri Aug 17 23:04:55 2007
From: Daniel.A.Ojo at noaa.gov (Daniel Ojo)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 17:04:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto-discard notification
In-Reply-To: <200708162303.l7GN2Op7003149@unreal.eroded.org>
References: <46C4CF37.4010407@noaa.gov>
	<200708162303.l7GN2Op7003149@unreal.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <46C60D77.7060804@noaa.gov>

Thanks Dragon,

Turning off the moderation bit solved it all.

Daniel.
 
Dragon wrote:
> Daniel Ojo sent the message below at 15:27 8/16/2007:
>   
>> Help,
>>
>> I am trying to send a message to a list I am an owner of and I received this
>> message.
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject:        Auto-discard notification
>> Date:   Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:45:40 -0400
>> From:   list-bounces at mydomain.com
>> To:     list-owner at mydomain.com
>>
>>
>> The attached message has been automatically discarded.
>>
>>
>> Anyone have an idea what the issue is?
>>
>> Thanks, Daniel.
>>
>>     
> ---------------- End original message. ---------------------
>
> The owner and/or moderator are not automatically members of a list, 
> in order to post to a members only list, you must be subscribed to it 
> and have your moderation bit turned off.
>
> If you are not a member and you have the non-member post action set 
> to discard, the post you attempt to send will be discarded.
>
>
> Dragon
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>   Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/daniel.a.ojo%40noaa.gov
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>   


From guilherme.funchal at gmail.com  Sat Aug 18 00:23:03 2007
From: guilherme.funchal at gmail.com (Guilherme Funchal)
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2007 19:23:03 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderation bit
Message-ID: <e368268e0708171523v11b19976g9f09c53258c47e3c@mail.gmail.com>

Hi!

How to turn-off moderation bit from command line for one user ?

One big hug !

-- 
"Voc? cria o seu pr?prio universo a medida que caminha"


==============================
Guilherme Funchal da Silva .`.

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Aug 18 04:03:11 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 11:03:11 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Subscribing to my list
In-Reply-To: <1187381302.46c60036460b6@webmail.iographix.com>
References: <1187381302.46c60036460b6@webmail.iographix.com>
Message-ID: <87sl6h38gw.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Julie Zbeetnoff writes:

 > After not getting any response and not being able to send out to my list for
 > over 24 hours. I decided to test the subscription option.
 > 
 > I did not receive confirmation to join my own list but rather I received a
 > confirmation to join this mailman list which I realize powers my list
 > googalistic at horizenplus.com
 >
 > Which brings me to my technical question. What the heck is going on?

We don't know; we supply software which is configured and administered
by your service provider.  It seems that your list is misconfigured,
but that will have to be addressed by you as list owner or the site
administrator.  In difficult cases we can probably help with diagnosis
and recommend configuration changes, but we need certain information
from you and the service provider.

 > Why is my list not working and why am I here and not at Googalistic after
 > subscribing?

Please tell us the exact set of steps you followed to arrive at the
current state of being subscribed to the Mailman Users list.  FYI, I
did the following:

1.  Google for "googalistic site:horizenplus.com".
2.  Click on the link to "http://horizenplus.com/mailman/listinfo/googalistic_horizenplus.com".

The resulting page seems to be correct in a brief review; it's the
standard Mailman 2.1.9 subscription template, and all the URLs related
to subscriber services link to something about
googalistic_horizenplus.com.

Such an URL indicates that your provider is not using Mailman as
distributed by the Mailman project (if it were, only the list name
"googalistic" would be in the URL), but has applied some patches.  It
seems likely that these patches are related to your problem, but
you'll need to ask your provider about it.  We don't know what they are.

Are you accessing Mailman via cPanel or Plesk?  If so, the FAQ may be
of help:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.032.htp

 > Since it is a public list your prompt attention would be appreciated.

Since you're openly running a business which involves spamming 400
Google Groups for each post to your mailing list, be warned: your
provider is likely to terminate your account for abuse on *any*
complaint, and Google is likely to make one.  Many of the posts look a
lot like MLM, too, which won't make them any happier.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Aug 18 07:39:06 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 00:39:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] apache permissions issue
In-Reply-To: <8ee061010708170933v3b65974cx50000d9edd3764dd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8ee061010708121446p19466504sc7df08ffcb9ee49a@mail.gmail.com>
	<8ee061010708170933v3b65974cx50000d9edd3764dd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240803c2ec35a20a9e@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/17/07, Terry wrote:

>>  The lists appear to be working fine.  However, I cannot perform any
>>  administrative functions via the web interface.  It does not return
>>  any errors when I submit and I can't see any errors in the apache
>>  error log for that vhost.   I tried adding the apache user to the
>>  mailman group with no luck.  Any other ideas?

There's a variety of reasons why this kind of thing might happen.  We 
document the ones we know about in the FAQ Wizard, such as FAQs 4.45, 
4.65, 4.69, 4.71, and others.  You should definitely take a closer 
look at all the various related entries in the FAQ Wizard.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Aug 18 07:34:52 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 00:34:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footers and Outlook: Looking for patch updated
 to 2.1.9
In-Reply-To: <46C5C451.4020902@sterndata.com>
References: <46C5C451.4020902@sterndata.com>
Message-ID: <p06240802c2ec3535f120@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/17/07, Steven Stern wrote:

>  It appears there have been significant changes between 2.1.5 and 2.1.9.
>  Has anyone updated this for 2.1.9?

Talk to the developer of this patch.  I don't think you're going to 
see this incorporated into the official Mailman source code, but 
maybe they're interested in continuing to try to bring this forward.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Aug 18 07:40:54 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 00:40:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribing to my list
In-Reply-To: <1187381302.46c60036460b6@webmail.iographix.com>
References: <1187381302.46c60036460b6@webmail.iographix.com>
Message-ID: <p06240804c2ec36984441@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/17/07, Julie Zbeetnoff wrote:

>  I did not receive confirmation to join my own list but rather I received a
>  confirmation to join this mailman list which I realize powers my list
>  googalistic at horizenplus.com

They may use Mailman to run their mailing lists, but they have 
complete control over their systems and if you have any questions as 
to what is going on, you need to talk to them -- we don't run your 
mailing lists, until you told us about this site we had no idea they 
were using our software, and we do not have any influence with them.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Aug 18 07:32:49 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 00:32:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can this be done using Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <46C5A299.8070609@pixelhammer.com>
References: <46B88D8C.1050103@pixelhammer.com>
	<p06240800c2ded7e2a492@[192.168.1.199]>
	<46BA0AD6.7000503@pixelhammer.com>
	<p06240801c2e02e0ad69e@[192.168.1.199]>
	<46C5A299.8070609@pixelhammer.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c2ec34c3d653@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/17/07, DAve wrote:

>  Doesn't look like that answer is coming, I must be treading new ground.
>  Is anyone interested in the answer if I setup a test install and try it?

Heck, even if no one else is interested in seeing how this test goes, 
then you can certainly sign me up.  I've always wondered how the 
"topics" stuff worked, and I've never had the chance to do much work 
with them....

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Aug 18 23:28:39 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 14:28:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible to filter what is archived?
In-Reply-To: <46B71A9C.1070902@jennic.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708181428390140086b5773@msapiro>

Mike Peachey wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> 
>> The above is a bit too simple. Something like
>> 
>> def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
>>     if mlist.umbrella_list:
>>         del msg['x-no-archive']
>>         msg['X-No-Archive'] = 'Yes'
>> 
>> is probably better to avoid creating multiple X-No-Archive: headers.
>> 
>> Also, if you insert the handler prior to 'ToArchive', the message (any
>> message to an umbrella list) will not be archived at all. If you
>> insert the handler after 'ToArchive' but prior to 'ToOutgoing', the
>> message will be archived in the archive of the first umbrella list it
>> hits, but won't be archived in any subsequent lists which is probably
>> more like what you want.
>> 
>
>
>This is just what I need, thank you!
>
>However it seems that the "if mlist.umbrella_list:" statement is 
>superfluous. On the assumption that the handler is being inserted AFTER 
>the first archiving, then surely it's safe to assume that no message 
>should be archived a second time and so ALL messages should get an 
>X-No-Archive as soon as they've been archived once.
>
>Let me know if I'm off base here.


Sorry for the long delay in replying. I have been away with no online
access.

You are correct for what you want to accomplish. I.e. if you only want
any message to be archived once in the archive of the first list it
hits, then it is safe to add the X-No-Archive header to all messages
after ToArchive and before ToOutging. However, there may be other
cases where one might have a list (e.g. mailman-users at python.org)
which is not an umbrella list and which has, e.g. a mail-archive.com
or some other external archive address as a member to provide a
searchable archive or some other archiving benefit, and in this case,
one wouldn't want to send the message to the external archiver with an
X-No-Archive header.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Aug 18 23:48:06 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 14:48:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam rule not stopping
In-Reply-To: <7ad4c500708062014x148d0fa9k17b833f09d8838f0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708181448060375509e069d@msapiro>

Martin S wrote:
>>
>> 2007/8/4, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>:
>> >
>> > Martin S wrote:
>> > >
>> > >X-Spam-Level: xxxx
>> > >
>> > >in my spam rule 1 under Privacy options. Still Mailman doesn't stop
>> > mail
>> > >directed to the maillist with a score of 8+.
>> > >What's up with that?
>> >
>> >
>> > What is the action for this rule?
>> >
>> > With default spamassassin settings (which uses an asterisk (*), not an
>> > x), I would use the following regexp (they are case insensitive).
>> >
>> > ^x-spam-level: \*\*\*\*
>> >
>> > to match any X-Spam-Level: header that has 4 or more asterisks. See
>> > <http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html>.
>> >
>> > I have "Discard" as the action. Changed to your suggested syntax, I'll
>> see if things improve.
>
>
>
>Apparently it doesn't - I still get highly classed spam mail on the list.
>(X-Spam-Level is over 7)


Are you using method 2) of
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.023.htp>,
(i.e. the SpamAssassin.py handler as described at
<http://www.jamesh.id.au/articles/mailman-spamassassin/>)?

If so, and if you have installed it as described, you can't use
header_filter_rules to catch spamassassin flagged messages because the
documentation says to put

GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(1, 'SpamAssassin')

in mm_cfg.py which processes the message through spamassassin after
header_filter_rules have been processed. If you want to apply
header_filter_rules to the spamassassin processed message, you need

GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(0, 'SpamAssassin')

instead.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Aug 19 03:24:00 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 18:24:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hello! And Emails Stuck on my lists
In-Reply-To: <adf8a84b0708052123w468520dbvd973ef9522ab7e0c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <adf8a84b0708052123w468520dbvd973ef9522ab7e0c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46C79BB0.2000403@value.net>

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Sara Ellars wrote:
> 
> I just got a new problem that is pretty annoying. First, I don't have FULL
> control of my servers. I have tech guys who run it, but my clients have run
> into a problem of emails not sending. They can access everything, the emails
> show up in the list archives. But it won't send to the users on the list. I
> have searched all past posts and tried to tell my tech guys that it seemed
> as if they were getting stuck in cache. All the rest of the emails work on
> the server, they all go to the person they should, just the mailing list
> won't send out.
> 
> Can someone please give me something I can tell them? Or even where I can
> maybe see if it is something I can do myself? We are running on a Cpanel
> server and I know that makes it a bit harder, but I would love any
> suggestions anyone can offer me. Thank you again for the wonderful lists, I
> would be so lost with out them! Which I am feeling that now lol


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>
and <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>

- --
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From msapiro at value.net  Sun Aug 19 03:37:29 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 18:37:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Add to filter from commandline?
In-Reply-To: <C2DC8E99.3B02%PKWI@exchange.Risoe.dk>
References: <C2DC8E99.3B02%PKWI@exchange.Risoe.dk>
Message-ID: <46C79ED9.30707@value.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Willendrup, Peter Kj?r wrote:
> 
> I have two mailinglists sitting on the same machine, one being the general
> user mailinglist (A) and the other one the software developer list (B) (B is
> reachable by a commonly known 'support' email adress).
> 
> Is there an easy way to allow members of list A to write messages to list B
> without being members of B?


See
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103>
for a patch to allow this.


> My current solution is to add the members of A to the accepts filter of list
> B - something that I am currently doing using the web interface...
> 
> My real question is: Is it possible to add addresses to the 'accepts' filter
> of a mailinglist from the commandline?


Not directly, but in a shell script you could prepare a file that looks like

mlist.accept_these_nonmembers.append('usera at example.com')
mlist.accept_these_nonmembers.append('userb at example.com')

and so on for all the non-members you want to add and then run

bin/config_list -i filename listname

where filename is the name of the above file.

Alternatively, you could just prepare an input file that looks like

accept_these_nonmembers = [
'usera at example.com',
'userb at example.com',
'userc at example.net',
'userd at example.net',
]

wherein all the addresses (not just adds) for accept_these_nonmembers
are listed, and then run the same config_list command. See

bin/config_list --help

- --
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From msapiro at value.net  Sun Aug 19 03:51:48 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 18:51:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unpack list of wrong size - debugging a single
 list
In-Reply-To: <70d16a930708162108g53e0ddeevf5bad7abdcdecb1d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <70d16a930708162108g53e0ddeevf5bad7abdcdecb1d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46C7A234.3070309@value.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

chris burgess wrote:
> 
> Here's an example of what I see in the mailman error log for any
> message to this list:
> 
> ---
> 
> Aug 17 15:39:16 2007 (29254) Uncaught runner exception: unpack list of
> wrong size
> Aug 17 15:39:16 2007 (29254) Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
>     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
>     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
>     more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153,
> in _dopipeline
>     sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 91, in process
>     send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132, in
> send_digests
>     send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 306, in
> send_i18n_digests
>     msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 273, in process
>     url = save_attachment(mlist, part, dir)
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 373, in
> save_attachment
>     fnext = os.path.splitext(msg.get_filename(''))[1]
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Message.py", line 725, in get_filename
>     filename = self.get_param('filename', missing, 'content-disposition')
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Message.py", line 608, in get_param
>     for k, v in self._get_params_preserve(failobj, header):
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Message.py", line 555, in _get_params_preserve
>     params = Utils.decode_params(params)
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Utils.py", line 337, in decode_params
>     charset, language, value = decode_rfc2231(EMPTYSTRING.join(value))
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Utils.py", line 284, in decode_rfc2231
>     charset, language, s = parts
> ValueError: unpack list of wrong size
> 
> ---
> 
> This is the resulting pickle file in qfiles/shunt for the same message:


The shunted message is not the one causing the problem. The problem is
one of the older messages in the lists/<listname>/digest.mbox file.

Every post to the list attempts to produce a digest based on size and
scrubber encounters this error (which is most likely due to a known and
recently fixed bug in RFC 2231 header decoding).

See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-July/057768.html>
for additional info on what to look for in the digest.mbox to fix this.

- --
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From msapiro at value.net  Sun Aug 19 03:56:06 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 18:56:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about entries in Mailman logs
In-Reply-To: <27572d930708060834s6aed8296r34446dd32284d4ec@mail.gmail.com>
References: <27572d930708060834s6aed8296r34446dd32284d4ec@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46C7A336.7050304@value.net>

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Hash: SHA1

Christopher Adams wrote:
> A list subscriber (joe.blow at server.com) regularly posts to his list
> (listX) successfully. However, the mailman logs fill up daily with
> these kind of entries, coming seconds apart. They have the same
> message-id.
> 
> I don't know how to interpret this and if it is a Postfix problem or
> related to Mailman. I would appreciate some clarification.
> 
> smtp.log.6:Aug 01 03:56:06 2007 (10919)
> <F01D445F5D607141A78EDA56F4B6FBD702175A0C at dpsstex01.dpsst.local> smtp
> to listX for 72 recips, completed in 17.070 seconds
> 
> 
> post.log.4:Aug 03 03:56:25 2007 (30474) post to listX from
> joe.blow at server.com, size=5318,
> message-id=<F01D445F5D607141A78EDA56F4B6FBD702175A0C at dpsstex01.dpsst.local>,
> 72 failures
> 
> 
> smtp-failure.log.4:Aug 03 03:56:25 2007 (30474) Low level smtp error:
> Server not connected, msgid:
> <F01D445F5D607141A78EDA56F4B6FBD702175A0C at dpsstex01.dpsst.local>


Mailman is either misconfigured or there is some intermittent issue
between Mailman and the outgoing MTA. Does any mail ever get delivered
or does it sit in Mailman's 'retry' queue being retried forever?

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.073.htp>
for some advice.

- --
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From msapiro at value.net  Sun Aug 19 04:03:17 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 19:03:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a few questions about the NNTP gateway
In-Reply-To: <46B76DC2.50702@libero.it>
References: <46B76DC2.50702@libero.it>
Message-ID: <46C7A4E5.9020905@value.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Manlio Perillo wrote:
> 
> 1) The messages from the newsgroup are not sent on the mailing list.
>     I don't know why, there is nothing in the error log


Is Mailman's cron/gate_news being run every five minutes from Mailman's
crontab?

If so, it might somehow be the case that the list's usenet_watermark
attribute is greater that the last message number in the newsgroup
(e.g., if you changed news servers).

- --
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From msapiro at value.net  Sun Aug 19 04:29:25 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 19:29:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can this be done using Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <46C5A299.8070609@pixelhammer.com>
References: <46B88D8C.1050103@pixelhammer.com>	<p06240800c2ded7e2a492@[192.168.1.199]>	<46BA0AD6.7000503@pixelhammer.com>	<p06240801c2e02e0ad69e@[192.168.1.199]>
	<46C5A299.8070609@pixelhammer.com>
Message-ID: <46C7AB05.4020104@value.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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DAve wrote:
> Brad Knowles wrote:
>> On 8/8/07, DAve wrote:
>>
>>>  So in the idea of an announcement only list, we should be able to have
>>>  the list owner post a message to multiple topics, correct? I did not see
>>>  where cross posting a message to multiple topics within a single list
>>>  was possible. Do you know if it is?
>> I would think so, yes.  But you should probably wait for an answer from 
>> someone who knows better how that part of the code actually works, like 
>> maybe Mark Sapiro or Tokio.
>>
> 
> Doesn't look like that answer is coming, I must be treading new ground. 
> Is anyone interested in the answer if I setup a test install and try it?


Sometimes people are out of electronic contact for weeks at a time :)

Topics are defined for a list.

Each member may subscribe to zero or more of the defined topics, and may
additionally choose to receive messages which don't match any topic. If
the member subscribes to zero topics, she receives all list messages. If
the member subscribes to one or more topics, she receives (one copy) of
all messages matching any of the subscribed topics, and if opted, those
messages which match no topic.

Each topic definition includes a regexp which is matched against the
Subject: header, the Keywords: header if any, and any initial body lines
that look like Subject: or Keywords: headers up to the first non-header
like body line or topics_bodylines_limit, whichever comes first.


> As we understand it you can have topics, and subscribers will only 
> receive messages directed at the topics they subscribe to.


Plus messages which match no topic if they choose. But, since this is an
announce list, you should be able to guarantee that all messages will
match one or more topics.


> This means a 
> subscriber could subscribe to [members], [stores], and [retailers], if 
> we send a message to [stores] they will receive it. If we send a message 
> to all topics, subscribers will receive only one message. This is what 
> we want.


I don't understand what you mean by "all topics".


> However, if we send a message only to [stores] and to [members], 
> subscribers will receive two copies.


No. Those members subscribed to either [stores] or to [members] or to
both will each receive exactly one copy of the message.


> This is not what we want. In order
> to have a subscriber receive only one copy of the message, the message 
> must go to ALL topics, [stores], [members], [retailers], [malls], 
> [gas_stations], [gas_stations_with_inside_bathrooms], 
> [gas_stations_with_outside_bathrooms_in_north_dakota], etc. Not what we 
> want.


The above is not correct. Each list member will receive either zero or
one message depending on whether or not the message matches at least one
subscribed topic.

- --
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From msapiro at value.net  Sun Aug 19 04:36:53 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 19:36:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to export my list of
 members	toan excel spreadsheet?
In-Reply-To: <5B204A7D0543C44DB984C8305F14496738DAEE@studebaker.PRC.Local>
References: <5B204A7D0543C44DB984C8305F14496738DA98@studebaker.PRC.Local>	<27572d930708071453l78d4e881jcfbd49670648d982@mail.gmail.com>
	<5B204A7D0543C44DB984C8305F14496738DAEE@studebaker.PRC.Local>
Message-ID: <46C7ACC5.7050507@value.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Joellen Leavelle wrote:
> Thanks.  I tried this, but I received a message saying Undeliverable:
> Delivery Status Notification (Failure).  I think I sent my request to
> the wrong e-mail address.  Can you tell me what the proper format is?  I
> tried listname-request at pensionrights.org.


If the listname-request address is undeliverable, your Mailman
installation (specifically the incoming MTA) is not properly configured
(unless you sent to literally listname-request instead of
the_actual_name_of_the_list-request).

However, for the answer to your original question, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>.

- --
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From msapiro at value.net  Sun Aug 19 04:42:17 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 19:42:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] user passwords
In-Reply-To: <p06240807c2dee3c26d1e@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <46B9B6E4.2D70.00D6.1@newcastle.edu.au>
	<p06240807c2dee3c26d1e@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <46C7AE09.40509@value.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Brad Knowles wrote:
> On 8/8/07, Luke Daly wrote:
> 
>>  One of my lists doesn't seem to have sent out the password for users
>>  when they were moved from the previous system. My question is is there
>>  an easy way to resend the passwords out manually to all members? the
>>  monthly reminder doesnt seem to be sending them out. iam kind of at a
>>  loss as to why. Thanks again guys hope to be able to post some responses
>>  to other peoples issues soon rather than the leech i am at the moment.
> 
> There are a number of standard cron jobs that you're supposed to run 
> as part of the standard installation process for Mailman, and one of 
> those is the one to handle the sending out of passwords.
> 
> After making sure that you've got all the right cron jobs created for 
> Mailman, you could take the specific cron entry for sending out the 
> passwords and instead do that one by hand, as a one-time operation.


Right!

See Mailman's

cron/mailpasswds --help

Also, make sure that the list's Send monthly password reminders?
(send_reminders) is set to Yes.

- --
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From msapiro at value.net  Sun Aug 19 04:47:24 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 19:47:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Traslator?
In-Reply-To: <20070816145419.GA77943@micron2.lacnic.net.uy>
References: <20070816145419.GA77943@micron2.lacnic.net.uy>
Message-ID: <46C7AF3C.8040203@value.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Pablo Allietti wrote:
> Hi all i have running mailman in my server and i received in a list
> messages from 3 members languages
> 
> English - Spanish - French
> 
> is possible to use any tool to traslate this messages in a web like 
> 
> http://www.carisnet.org/index.php?path=en/prj_imp
> 
> this server have a list and the mailman file, and traslate any message
> automagically to the 3 languages..


There is no facility to do this in standard Mailman.

- --
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From xurizaemon at gmail.com  Sun Aug 19 05:03:54 2007
From: xurizaemon at gmail.com (chris burgess)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 15:03:54 +1200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unpack list of wrong size - debugging a single
	list
In-Reply-To: <46C7A234.3070309@value.net>
References: <70d16a930708162108g53e0ddeevf5bad7abdcdecb1d@mail.gmail.com>
	<46C7A234.3070309@value.net>
Message-ID: <70d16a930708182003q442dcc9bk52d2f4d188a8ef3a@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Mark.

It was as you suggested - a message with an attachment containing an
apostrophe in the filename. This had also knocked out a list a year
ago, and the cause was identical (but we didn't find the solution for
that list until now).

Is this bug #1518281 on SF, or if not, which release of Mailman fixes
this? I'd like to be able to get my Mailman install (currently Debian
stable's 2.1.5-8sarge5) fixed for that specific bug - it's the only
thing which has knocked service out on our listserver in several years
:)

At least I'll know what to look for next time - much appreciated, Mark!

On 8/19/07, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> chris burgess wrote:
> >
> > Here's an example of what I see in the mailman error log for any
> > message to this list:
> >
> > ---
> >
> > Aug 17 15:39:16 2007 (29254) Uncaught runner exception: unpack list of
> > wrong size
> > Aug 17 15:39:16 2007 (29254) Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
> >     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
> >   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
> >     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> >   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
> >     more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
> >   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153,
> > in _dopipeline
> >     sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> >   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 91, in process
> >     send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
> >   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132, in
> > send_digests
> >     send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
> >   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 306, in
> > send_i18n_digests
> >     msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
> >   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 273, in process
> >     url = save_attachment(mlist, part, dir)
> >   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 373, in
> > save_attachment
> >     fnext = os.path.splitext(msg.get_filename(''))[1]
> >   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Message.py", line 725, in get_filename
> >     filename = self.get_param('filename', missing, 'content-disposition')
> >   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Message.py", line 608, in get_param
> >     for k, v in self._get_params_preserve(failobj, header):
> >   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Message.py", line 555, in _get_params_preserve
> >     params = Utils.decode_params(params)
> >   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Utils.py", line 337, in decode_params
> >     charset, language, value = decode_rfc2231(EMPTYSTRING.join(value))
> >   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Utils.py", line 284, in decode_rfc2231
> >     charset, language, s = parts
> > ValueError: unpack list of wrong size
> >
> > ---
> >
> > This is the resulting pickle file in qfiles/shunt for the same message:
>
>
> The shunted message is not the one causing the problem. The problem is
> one of the older messages in the lists/<listname>/digest.mbox file.
>
> Every post to the list attempts to produce a digest based on size and
> scrubber encounters this error (which is most likely due to a known and
> recently fixed bug in RFC 2231 header decoding).
>
> See
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-July/057768.html>
> for additional info on what to look for in the digest.mbox to fix this.
>
> - --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32)
>
> iD8DBQFGx6I0VVuXXpU7hpMRAu7oAKDH3P0pn4ZhUxlgO/3TL14uwGZSZACfRt9T
> h8+azlACjBJ7tjclze/zIJ8=
> =1z+H
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>


-- 
-- chris burgess, giant robot ltd
-- emailing you from gmail.com
--

From msapiro at value.net  Sun Aug 19 05:03:21 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 20:03:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spontaneous spillover at a certain cue
In-Reply-To: <46BB3E6B.5070506@chez-vrolet.net>
References: <46BB3E6B.5070506@chez-vrolet.net>
Message-ID: <46C7B2F9.5010309@value.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Dennis Carr wrote:
> 
> Note how in this case on the second message there seems to be a line
> missing - as near as we can tell, if it hits a paragraph that starts
> with the word "From", it cuts off, starts a new archive file, and
> eliminates that first line from the new archive file.

Both Brad and Stephen have given good responses to this, however there
is something else wrong. In recent Mailman (your's appears to be 2.1.9 -
the latest) with recent versions of the Python email library, any lines
that begin with "From " should be escaped to "^From " when the message
is passed to pipermail.

What is your Python version, and is there an email package in Mailman's
pythonlib/ directory?

- --
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From msapiro at value.net  Sun Aug 19 05:33:23 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 20:33:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hold_these_nonmembers
In-Reply-To: <20070810193258.GK6990@sitsika>
References: <20070809183044.GB6990@sitsika>	<p06240803c2e1712e93d6@[192.168.1.199]>	<20070810110940.GJ6990@sitsika>	<p06240800c2e24b3baf26@[192.168.1.199]>
	<20070810193258.GK6990@sitsika>
Message-ID: <46C7BA03.9060003@value.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Par Leijonhufvud wrote:
> Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> [2007.08.10] wrote:
>>
>> You should be able to have a master list of "everyone", but I 
>> couldn't tell you which takes precedence.  You'd need to hear from 
>> Mark, Tokio, or Barry on that.
> 
> I'll avait an authorative comment before implementing, or code around the
> problem. I culd of course run an experiment, but that would
> leave a nagging doubt that things *allways* will work in the same
> order.  


Membership tests are applied first, i.e. is the sender a list member, if
so, is she moderated and if so, what is member_moderation_action?

The non_member tests are only applied if the sender is not a member.
They are applied in the following order:

accept_these_nonmembers
hold_these_nonmembers
reject_these_nonmembers
discard_these_nonmembers
generic_nonmember_action

The first match applies.

- --
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From msapiro at value.net  Sun Aug 19 06:01:46 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 21:01:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] another issue
In-Reply-To: <46BC57F7.2D70.00D6.1@newcastle.edu.au>
References: <46BC57F7.2D70.00D6.1@newcastle.edu.au>
Message-ID: <46C7C0AA.10207@value.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Luke Daly wrote:
> And again
> Could you please advise me if there is some setting in Mailman I could
> use to allow subscriptions from @newcastle and @studentmail addresses
> (both our domains) to
> be accepted automatically.  Currently, as owner, I am asked to
> authorise
> all subscriptions for our three mail lists.  This is becoming a daily
> task lately.


This feature has been implemented for what is now Mailman 3.0. I intend
to backport it to Mailman 2.2 and possibly to 2.1.10.

There is a patch for the 2.1.8 base at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=403066&group_id=103&atid=350103>.
This should not be hard to apply to 2.1.9.

- --
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From msapiro at value.net  Sun Aug 19 06:22:26 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 21:22:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Any problem with removing lower case list name
 conversion in newlist?
In-Reply-To: <dd4da0390708130745q289a38celdea1eabb34c0f935@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd4da0390708100728j39a91fd7k18050998628e72be@mail.gmail.com>
	<dd4da0390708130745q289a38celdea1eabb34c0f935@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46C7C582.1000205@value.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

D G Teed wrote:
> It doesn't really matter if the list name is in any particular case,
> but I'd like the DEFAULT_SUBJECT_PREFIX
> to keep the original case of the list name.  Because we have
> lists named after course names, it would look a little odd for
> only the first char to be upper case (e.g. [Srmk4563a1] rather than
> [SRMK4563A1].
> 
> Looking at MailList.py, I see where realname is being set:
> 
>         self.real_name = internalname[0].upper() + internalname[1:]


You could just change that to

        self.real_name = internalname.upper()

which would set the initial real_name of the list to all upper case and
the subject_prefix would follow.


> I considered adding another variable on the next line and then
> reference that in  my defaults file.  However, I think it
> would require that I map all of my lists to uppercase
> in the new variable, since it seems like the original name
> is converted to lowercase internally when the list is created.
> I'm not sure whether mapping all mailing lists to upper case
> for the DEFAULT_SUBJECT_PREFIX would be acceptable.


The internal_name should be all lower case.  I'm not certain, but I
think lots would break if it weren't.  The real_name can be changed via
the web admin interface and can be anything at all as long as it
differsd from the internal_name only by case, i.e., any combination of
letters of the internal_name can be upper-cased for the real_name.


> So it gets back to my original question, which I have googled and
> can't see the answer: can I safely remove the line inside the newlist
> script which maps the list name to lowercase?


I don't think so.

- --
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From msapiro at value.net  Sun Aug 19 06:38:42 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 21:38:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to protect list archives?
In-Reply-To: <B5A6F27D-9746-4D24-966D-9B1650672C78@bowdoin.edu>
References: <182B0B54-8A28-4252-A991-2AEB062F486D@bowdoin.edu>	<p06240801c2e68a04687c@[192.168.1.199]>
	<B5A6F27D-9746-4D24-966D-9B1650672C78@bowdoin.edu>
Message-ID: <46C7C952.5010002@value.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Chris Waltham wrote:
> 
> I'll try searching the archives to see if there's a command to do  
> what I want, otherwise I could just input and output some config  
> files and run sed over them ;-)


You don't need to do anything that tricky. Just run

#! /bin/bash
file=`mktemp`
echo 'archive_private = 1' > $file
cd path/to/mailman
for list in `bin/list_lists --bare`
do bin/config_list -i $file $list
done
rm $file

to set every list's archive to private. bin/config_list -i doesn't
change anything that isn't in it's input file.

- --
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From msapiro at value.net  Sun Aug 19 06:47:57 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 21:47:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML-format Attachments in the List Archives
In-Reply-To: <200708141617.l7EGHTVs000478@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
References: <200708141617.l7EGHTVs000478@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <46C7CB7D.6040100@value.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Barry Finkel wrote:
> 
> When I click on the .gif or .jpeg hyperlinks, I see the images.
> But when I click on the .htm hyperlink, I see the HTML text.
> If I take that HTML text, save it to /tmp, and then open that file
> with Firefox, I see the mail message properly formatted.
> 
> I have looked at the ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER variable in Defaults.py,
> and I am not clear what value to set so that the .htm hyperlink
> will display the formatted HTML source instead of the raw HTML source.
> Is this the parameter that I need to change?


Yes, and you need to set it to 3, BUT read the comment in Defaults.py
about this and think long and hard about it before doing this.


3 - Remove text/html as attachments but don't HTML-escape them. Note:
    this is very dangerous because it essentially means anybody can send
    an HTML email to your site containing evil JavaScript or web bugs,
    or other nasty things, and folks viewing your archives will be
    susceptible.  You should only consider this option if you do heavy
    moderation of your list postings.

- --
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From msapiro at value.net  Sun Aug 19 06:57:41 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 21:57:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribing by email?
In-Reply-To: <46C2CDC0.8010900@sgul.ac.uk>
References: <46C2CDC0.8010900@sgul.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <46C7CDC5.50909@value.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Paul Key wrote:
> 
> I am looking to get users to subscribe and unsubscribe from certain 
> lists using email.  I am getting them to emal 
> <listname>-request at blah.blah with "subscribe" in the message body. This 
> works fine with an empty subject field (they get one confirmation email 
> as expected) but if they put a subject on the subscription request email 
> they receive two subscription confirmation emails from mailman in reply. 
> Anyone no why this happens?  They would like to put something in the 
> subject.


When mail is sent to the listname-request address, both the subject and
body are scanned for commands. If the subject doesn't contain a valid
command, it is ignored, but if both the subject and body contain
'subscribe' there are two subscribe commands.

They can send a mail to listname-request with 'subscribe' in the subject
and an empty body, or as has been mentioned in other replies, they can
mail listname-join or listname-subscribe and the subject and body will
be ignored.

- --
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From msapiro at value.net  Sun Aug 19 07:06:29 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 22:06:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderation bit
In-Reply-To: <e368268e0708171523v11b19976g9f09c53258c47e3c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e368268e0708171523v11b19976g9f09c53258c47e3c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46C7CFD5.3030402@value.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Guilherme Funchal wrote:
> 
> How to turn-off moderation bit from command line for one user ?


See <http://veenet.value.net/~msapiro/scripts/set_mod.py> (mirrored at
<http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/set_mod.py>).

- --
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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=kyMc
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From msapiro at value.net  Sun Aug 19 07:30:37 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 22:30:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unpack list of wrong size - debugging a single
	list
In-Reply-To: <70d16a930708182003q442dcc9bk52d2f4d188a8ef3a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007081822303702185ea6057f@msapiro>

chris burgess wrote:
>
>It was as you suggested - a message with an attachment containing an
>apostrophe in the filename. This had also knocked out a list a year
>ago, and the cause was identical (but we didn't find the solution for
>that list until now).
>
>Is this bug #1518281 on SF, or if not, which release of Mailman fixes
>this? I'd like to be able to get my Mailman install (currently Debian
>stable's 2.1.5-8sarge5) fixed for that specific bug - it's the only
>thing which has knocked service out on our listserver in several years
>:)


Yes, it is bug #1518281, but this bug is not completely/correctly fixed
until Mailman 2.1.9 and it's associated email 2.5.8 library.

Mailman 2.1.7 and up contain a fix to prevent this type of error,
regardless of cause, from blocking regular delivery, although errors
can still block digest delivery.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From falko at tahoe.reservoir.com  Sun Aug 19 08:11:57 2007
From: falko at tahoe.reservoir.com (falko at tahoe.reservoir.com)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 02:11:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner refuses to pass mail to users
Message-ID: <20070819061157.GE14916@tahoe.reservoir.com>

Hi everyone,

I have the following setup: 

Postfix -> Dspam -> Procmail -> Mailman -> Users

I've tried taking Dspam out of the equation, but that did not change a thing.

When users send to a mailing list, the message appears to be deilvered to mailman. 
However, mailman does not do anything afterwards: i.e. its does not send the 
messages to the users. 

qrunner is running. I traced the problem to the following: 

In logs/post I saw this:

Aug 19 02:01:09 2007 (15427) post to list from falko at reservoir.com, size=1215, message-id=<20070819054804.GC14916 at reservoir.com>, 12 failures
Aug 19 02:01:09 2007 (15428) post to list from falko at reservoir.com, size=1215, message-id=<20070819054804.GC14916 at reservoir.com>, 12 failures

The message is repeated more than 12 times.

In logs/error I see this: 

Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838): Traceback (most recent call last):
Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in ?
Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):      main()
Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):      qrunner.run()
Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 71, in run
Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):      msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 150, in dequeue
Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):      fp = open(filename)
Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838): IOError :  [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/var/lib/mailman/qfiles/out/1187500584.
9663761+5f32a14b80df78b4db0d2455318501cdaa1d6f0f.pck'
Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(15103): Traceback (most recent call last):
Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(15103):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in ?
Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(15103):      main()
Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(15103):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(15103):      qrunner.run()
Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(15103):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 71, in run
Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(15103):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(15103):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(15103):      msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(15103):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 150, in dequeue
Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(15103):      fp = open(filename)
Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(15103): IOError :  [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/var/lib/mailman/qfiles/out/1187501967
.345715+3df12527015dd9faf50eaa9a346b286119526e4c.pck'
Aug 19 01:48:05 2007 (15098) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/sys
admin/index.html'
Aug 19 01:48:05 2007 (15098) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose
    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 217, in ArchiveMail
    h.close()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 324, in close
    self.write_TOC()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 1094, in write_TOC
    toc = open(os.path.join(self.basedir, 'index.html'), 'w')
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/sysadmin/index.html'
Aug 19 01:48:05 2007 (15098) SHUNTING: 1187502485.4463329+7a7b88a8b7bb48e961dc70e6ecfb9012cb8d588b
Aug 19 01:48:32 2007 qrunner(15130): Traceback (most recent call last):
Aug 19 01:48:32 2007 qrunner(15066): Traceback (most recent call last):
Aug 19 01:48:32 2007 qrunner(15130):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in ?
Aug 19 01:48:32 2007 qrunner(15066):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in ?
Aug 19 01:48:32 2007 qrunner(15066):      main()
Aug 19 01:48:32 2007 qrunner(15130):      main()
Aug 19 01:48:32 2007 qrunner(15066):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
Aug 19 01:48:32 2007 qrunner(15130):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
Aug 19 01:48:32 2007 qrunner(15066):      qrunner.run()
Aug 19 01:48:32 2007 qrunner(15130):      qrunner.run()
Aug 19 01:48:32 2007 qrunner(15066):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 71, in run
Aug 19 01:48:32 2007 qrunner(15130):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 71, in run
Aug 19 01:48:32 2007 qrunner(15066):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
Aug 19 01:48:32 2007 qrunner(15130):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
Aug 19 01:48:32 2007 qrunner(15066):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
Aug 19 01:48:32 2007 qrunner(15130):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
Aug 19 01:48:32 2007 qrunner(15066):      msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
Aug 19 01:48:32 2007 qrunner(15130):      msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
Aug 19 01:48:32 2007 qrunner(15066):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 150, in dequeue
Aug 19 01:48:32 2007 qrunner(15130):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 150, in dequeue
Aug 19 01:48:32 2007 qrunner(15066):      fp = open(filename)
Aug 19 01:48:32 2007 qrunner(15130):      fp = open(filename)
Aug 19 01:48:32 2007 qrunner(15066): IOError :  [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/var/lib/mailman/qfiles/out/1187499921
.1946001+c02f833f5c58eae54691abf67b00931a8e1c163e.pck'
Aug 19 01:48:32 2007 qrunner(15130): IOError :  [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/var/lib/mailman/qfiles/out/1187500584
.9663761+e5cf2faf725111861019d282cc9557ca9ba9db31.pck'
Aug 19 01:48:33 2007 (15173) Failed to unlink backup file: /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/out/1187500584.9663761+e5cf2faf7251118610
19d282cc9557ca9ba9db31.bak
Aug 19 01:48:33 2007 qrunner(15173): Traceback (most recent call last):
Aug 19 01:48:33 2007 qrunner(15173):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in ?
Aug 19 01:48:33 2007 qrunner(15173):      main()
Aug 19 01:48:33 2007 qrunner(15173):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
Aug 19 01:48:33 2007 (15174) Failed to unlink backup file: /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/out/1187500584.9663761+e5cf2faf7251118610
19d282cc9557ca9ba9db31.bak
Aug 19 01:48:33 2007 qrunner(15173):      qrunner.run()
Aug 19 01:48:33 2007 qrunner(15173):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 71, in run
Aug 19 01:48:33 2007 qrunner(15174): Traceback (most recent call last):
Aug 19 01:48:33 2007 qrunner(15173):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
Aug 19 01:48:33 2007 qrunner(15174):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in ?
Aug 19 01:48:33 2007 qrunner(15173):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
Aug 19 01:48:33 2007 qrunner(15173):      msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
Aug 19 01:48:33 2007 qrunner(15173):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 150, in dequeue
Aug 19 01:48:33 2007 qrunner(15174):      main()
Aug 19 01:48:33 2007 qrunner(15173):      fp = open(filename)
Aug 19 01:48:33 2007 qrunner(15174):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
Aug 19 01:48:33 2007 qrunner(15173): IOError :  [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/var/lib/mailman/qfiles/out/1187501967
.345715+5a4803da70f7617e09e586ea434c85c0c1ac7d78.pck'
Aug 19 01:48:33 2007 qrunner(15174):      qrunner.run()
Aug 19 01:48:33 2007 qrunner(15174):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 71, in run
Aug 19 01:48:33 2007 qrunner(15174):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
Aug 19 01:48:33 2007 qrunner(15174):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
Aug 19 01:48:33 2007 qrunner(15174):      msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
Aug 19 01:48:33 2007 qrunner(15174):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 150, in dequeue
Aug 19 01:48:33 2007 qrunner(15174):      fp = open(filename)
Aug 19 01:48:33 2007 qrunner(15174): IOError :  [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/var/lib/mailman/qfiles/out/1187501967
.345715+5a4803da70f7617e09e586ea434c85c0c1ac7d78.pck'
Aug 19 01:48:34 2007 (15175) Failed to unlink backup file: /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/out/1187502485.4463329+b3340e5f92da810eba
c21917ba159eb5fc70593a.bak

At 1:56 and 2:00 I see very simular stuff.




I have run bin/check_perms multiple times, but it tells me that there are no problems.



I appreciate any help. Thanks!


Best regards,
Andrey Falko

From msapiro at value.net  Sun Aug 19 09:02:52 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 00:02:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner refuses to pass mail to users
In-Reply-To: <20070819061157.GE14916@tahoe.reservoir.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708190002520156e50617b0@msapiro>

falko at tahoe.reservoir.com
>
>I have the following setup: 
>
>Postfix -> Dspam -> Procmail -> Mailman -> Users
>
>I've tried taking Dspam out of the equation, but that did not change a thing.
>
>When users send to a mailing list, the message appears to be deilvered to mailman. 
>However, mailman does not do anything afterwards: i.e. its does not send the 
>messages to the users. 
>
>qrunner is running. I traced the problem to the following: 
>
>In logs/post I saw this:
>
>Aug 19 02:01:09 2007 (15427) post to list from falko at reservoir.com, size=1215, message-id=<20070819054804.GC14916 at reservoir.com>, 12 failures
>Aug 19 02:01:09 2007 (15428) post to list from falko at reservoir.com, size=1215, message-id=<20070819054804.GC14916 at reservoir.com>, 12 failures
>
>The message is repeated more than 12 times.


And what is in the smtp-failure log?


>In logs/error I see this: 
>
>Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838): Traceback (most recent call last):
>Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in ?
>Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):      main()
>Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
>Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):      qrunner.run()
>Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 71, in run
>Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
>Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
>Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):      msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 150, in dequeue
>Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):      fp = open(filename)
>Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838): IOError :  [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/var/lib/mailman/qfiles/out/1187500584.
>9663761+5f32a14b80df78b4db0d2455318501cdaa1d6f0f.pck'


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.068.htp>


<snip>

>Aug 19 01:48:05 2007 (15098) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/sys
>admin/index.html'
>Aug 19 01:48:05 2007 (15098) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose
>    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 217, in ArchiveMail
>    h.close()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 324, in close
>    self.write_TOC()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 1094, in write_TOC
>    toc = open(os.path.join(self.basedir, 'index.html'), 'w')
>IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/sysadmin/index.html'
>Aug 19 01:48:05 2007 (15098) SHUNTING: 1187502485.4463329+7a7b88a8b7bb48e961dc70e6ecfb9012cb8d588b


There is a bug in check_perms. It does not check for sufficient access
to archives/private/ - permissions should be at least drwxrws--- and
group mailman.


<snip>

>Aug 19 01:48:33 2007 (15173) Failed to unlink backup file: /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/out/1187500584.9663761+e5cf2faf7251118610
>19d282cc9557ca9ba9db31.bak


This too looks like multiple qrunners processing the same queue slice.


<snip>

>I have run bin/check_perms multiple times, but it tells me that there are no problems.


See above.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From falko at tahoe.reservoir.com  Sun Aug 19 18:28:54 2007
From: falko at tahoe.reservoir.com (falko at tahoe.reservoir.com)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 12:28:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner refuses to pass mail to users
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200708190002520156e50617b0@msapiro>
References: <20070819061157.GE14916@tahoe.reservoir.com>
	<PC1760200708190002520156e50617b0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20070819162854.GH14916@tahoe.reservoir.com>

On Sun, Aug 19, 2007 at 12:02:52AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> falko at tahoe.reservoir.com
> >
> >I have the following setup: 
> >
> >Postfix -> Dspam -> Procmail -> Mailman -> Users
> >
> >I've tried taking Dspam out of the equation, but that did not change a thing.
> >
> >When users send to a mailing list, the message appears to be deilvered to mailman. 
> >However, mailman does not do anything afterwards: i.e. its does not send the 
> >messages to the users. 
> >
> >qrunner is running. I traced the problem to the following: 
> >
> >In logs/post I saw this:
> >
> >Aug 19 02:01:09 2007 (15427) post to list from falko at reservoir.com, size=1215, message-id=<20070819054804.GC14916 at reservoir.com>, 12 failures
> >Aug 19 02:01:09 2007 (15428) post to list from falko at reservoir.com, size=1215, message-id=<20070819054804.GC14916 at reservoir.com>, 12 failures
> >
> >The message is repeated more than 12 times.
> 
> 
> And what is in the smtp-failure log?
> 

I saw the following: 

Aug 19 12:12:03 2007 (4347) delivery to addr1 at reservoir.com failed with code -1: (111, 'Connection refused')
Aug 19 12:12:03 2007 (4347) delivery to addr2 at reservoir.com failed with code -1: (111, 'Connection refused')
Aug 19 12:12:03 2007 (4347) delivery to addr3 at reservoir.com failed with code -1: (111, 'Connection refused')

Ever since then, I see things like in logs/smtp:

Aug 19 06:01:19 2007 (15455) <20070819051624.GB13998 at tahoe.reservoir.com> smtp to list for 12 recips, completed in 0.001
 seconds
Aug 19 06:01:19 2007 (15455) <20070819051624.GB13998 at tahoe.reservoir.com> smtp to list for 12 recips, completed in 0.001
 seconds
Aug 19 06:01:19 2007 (15455) <20070819051624.GB13998 at tahoe.reservoir.com> smtp to list for 12 recips, completed in 0.001
 seconds

Noting is still going through though. 

The errors in logs/error appear to have stopped at 8:00 AM.


> 
> >In logs/error I see this: 
> >
> >Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838): Traceback (most recent call last):
> >Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in ?
> >Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):      main()
> >Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
> >Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):      qrunner.run()
> >Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 71, in run
> >Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
> >Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
> >Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):      msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
> >Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 150, in dequeue
> >Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):      fp = open(filename)
> >Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838): IOError :  [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/var/lib/mailman/qfiles/out/1187500584.
> >9663761+5f32a14b80df78b4db0d2455318501cdaa1d6f0f.pck'
> 
> 
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.068.htp>
> 
> 
> <snip>
> 
> >Aug 19 01:48:05 2007 (15098) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/sys
> >admin/index.html'
> >Aug 19 01:48:05 2007 (15098) Traceback (most recent call last):
> >  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
> >    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
> >  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, in _onefile
> >    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> >  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose
> >    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
> >  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 217, in ArchiveMail
> >    h.close()
> >  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 324, in close
> >    self.write_TOC()
> >  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 1094, in write_TOC
> >    toc = open(os.path.join(self.basedir, 'index.html'), 'w')
> >IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/sysadmin/index.html'
> >Aug 19 01:48:05 2007 (15098) SHUNTING: 1187502485.4463329+7a7b88a8b7bb48e961dc70e6ecfb9012cb8d588b
> 
> 
> There is a bug in check_perms. It does not check for sufficient access
> to archives/private/ - permissions should be at least drwxrws--- and
> group mailman.
> 

I set those perms to all files (some files did not have those perms just now.

> 
> <snip>
> 
> >Aug 19 01:48:33 2007 (15173) Failed to unlink backup file: /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/out/1187500584.9663761+e5cf2faf7251118610
> >19d282cc9557ca9ba9db31.bak
> 
> 
> This too looks like multiple qrunners processing the same queue slice.
> 

This was true. I killed all of them off. And removed the -s option from the init script I was using. 

> 
> <snip>
> 
> >I have run bin/check_perms multiple times, but it tells me that there are no problems.
> 
> 
> See above.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/falko%40reservoir.com
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

From falko at tahoe.reservoir.com  Sun Aug 19 19:16:47 2007
From: falko at tahoe.reservoir.com (falko at tahoe.reservoir.com)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 13:16:47 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner refuses to pass mail to users
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200708190002520156e50617b0@msapiro>
References: <20070819061157.GE14916@tahoe.reservoir.com>
	<PC1760200708190002520156e50617b0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20070819171647.GF6676@tahoe.reservoir.com>

On Sun, Aug 19, 2007 at 12:02:52AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> falko at tahoe.reservoir.com
> >
> >I have the following setup: 
> >
> >Postfix -> Dspam -> Procmail -> Mailman -> Users
> >
> >I've tried taking Dspam out of the equation, but that did not change a thing.
> >
> >When users send to a mailing list, the message appears to be deilvered to mailman. 
> >However, mailman does not do anything afterwards: i.e. its does not send the 
> >messages to the users. 
> >
> >qrunner is running. I traced the problem to the following: 
> >
> >In logs/post I saw this:
> >
> >Aug 19 02:01:09 2007 (15427) post to list from falko at reservoir.com, size=1215, message-id=<20070819054804.GC14916 at reservoir.com>, 12 failures
> >Aug 19 02:01:09 2007 (15428) post to list from falko at reservoir.com, size=1215, message-id=<20070819054804.GC14916 at reservoir.com>, 12 failures
> >
> >The message is repeated more than 12 times.
> 
> 
> And what is in the smtp-failure log?
> 

This stuff: 

Aug 19 13:09:18 2007 (7258) delivery to addr1 at reservoir.com failed with code -1: (111, 'Connection refused')
Aug 19 13:09:18 2007 (7258) delivery to addr2 at reservoir.com failed with code -1: (111, 'Connection refused')
Aug 19 13:09:18 2007 (7258) delivery to addr... at reservoir.com failed with code -1: (111, 'Connection refused')

So the question I guess is, why is postfix refusing the connnection? How does mailman connect to 
postfix?

I am using this in mm_cfg.py:

# Maildir
USE_MAILDIR = Yes
QRUNNERS.append(('MaildirRunner', 1))

DEFAULT_DIGESTABLE = No

# Uses genaliases as covered by mailman docs.
MTA = 'Postfix'


In /etc/postfix/main.cf I have this:

alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases

Inside /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases:

# STANZA START: list
# CREATED: Sun Aug 19 01:13:18 2007
list:             /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/maildir/
list-admin:       /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/maildir/
list-bounces:     /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/maildir/
list-confirm:     /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/maildir/
list-join:        /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/maildir/
list-leave:       /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/maildir/
list-owner:       /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/maildir/
list-request:     /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/maildir/
list-subscribe:   /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/maildir/
list-unsubscribe: /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/maildir/
# STANZA END: list

> 
> >In logs/error I see this: 
> >
> >Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838): Traceback (most recent call last):
> >Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 278, in ?
> >Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):      main()
> >Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 238, in main
> >Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):      qrunner.run()
> >Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 71, in run
> >Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
> >Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
> >Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):      msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
> >Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 150, in dequeue
> >Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838):      fp = open(filename)
> >Aug 19 01:46:09 2007 qrunner(5838): IOError :  [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/var/lib/mailman/qfiles/out/1187500584.
> >9663761+5f32a14b80df78b4db0d2455318501cdaa1d6f0f.pck'
> 
> 
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.068.htp>
> 
> 
> <snip>
> 
> >Aug 19 01:48:05 2007 (15098) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/sys
> >admin/index.html'
> >Aug 19 01:48:05 2007 (15098) Traceback (most recent call last):
> >  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
> >    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
> >  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, in _onefile
> >    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> >  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose
> >    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
> >  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 217, in ArchiveMail
> >    h.close()
> >  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 324, in close
> >    self.write_TOC()
> >  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 1094, in write_TOC
> >    toc = open(os.path.join(self.basedir, 'index.html'), 'w')
> >IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/sysadmin/index.html'
> >Aug 19 01:48:05 2007 (15098) SHUNTING: 1187502485.4463329+7a7b88a8b7bb48e961dc70e6ecfb9012cb8d588b
> 
> 
> There is a bug in check_perms. It does not check for sufficient access
> to archives/private/ - permissions should be at least drwxrws--- and
> group mailman.
> 
> 
> <snip>
> 
> >Aug 19 01:48:33 2007 (15173) Failed to unlink backup file: /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/out/1187500584.9663761+e5cf2faf7251118610
> >19d282cc9557ca9ba9db31.bak
> 
> 
> This too looks like multiple qrunners processing the same queue slice.
> 
> 
> <snip>
> 
> >I have run bin/check_perms multiple times, but it tells me that there are no problems.
> 
> 
> See above.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/falko%40reservoir.com
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

From par at hunter-gatherer.org  Sun Aug 19 19:39:33 2007
From: par at hunter-gatherer.org (Par Leijonhufvud)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 19:39:33 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hold_these_nonmembers
In-Reply-To: <46C7BA03.9060003@value.net>
References: <20070809183044.GB6990@sitsika>
	<p06240803c2e1712e93d6@[192.168.1.199]>
	<20070810110940.GJ6990@sitsika>
	<p06240800c2e24b3baf26@[192.168.1.199]>
	<20070810193258.GK6990@sitsika> <46C7BA03.9060003@value.net>
Message-ID: <20070819173932.GP21704@sitsika>

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> [2007.08.19] wrote:
> Membership tests are applied first, i.e. is the sender a list member, if
> so, is she moderated and if so, what is member_moderation_action?
> 
> The non_member tests are only applied if the sender is not a member.
> They are applied in the following order:
> 
> accept_these_nonmembers
> hold_these_nonmembers
> reject_these_nonmembers
> discard_these_nonmembers
> generic_nonmember_action
> 
> The first match applies.

Great. I was assuming that it was done in a logical order and fashion,
but the functional paranoia wanted it verified first.

Thanks!

/Par

-- 
Par Leijonhufvud                               par at hunter-gatherer.org
[Pern books] They're women's rape-fantasy SF, not really the kind of story
that indulges in pragmatic wankery.
                -- Kurt Busiek

From msapiro at value.net  Sun Aug 19 20:27:01 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 11:27:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass defection?
In-Reply-To: <46C5F687.7030006@computatio.com>
References: <46C5F687.7030006@computatio.com>
Message-ID: <46C88B75.6080605@value.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Julio A. Cartaya wrote:
> A customer of mine has a broadcast (i.e. one-way), low-traffic list with
> close to 3000 members. The list contains a mix of business and personal
> addresses.  As usual, the list of member addresses can be seen only by
> administrators (private_roster).
> 
> The date of the last message broadcasted to members is July 17(this
> year).  On Aug 7 we received 2700 messages stating "johndoe at somesite.com
> has cancelled his subscription to mylist" (where johndoe at somesite.com
> changes - of course - for each cancellation message).
> 
> Other relevant data
> 
>    * This list has been stable, hovering around 3000 members for 3 years
>    * It is unlikely all 2700 decided to drop from the list at the same time
>    * The host logs show no sign of intrusion
>    * I am inclined to dismiss vandalism, since there are 300 members
>      whose suscription was not affected
>    * There was no obvious pattern on the email addresses that were dropped
> 
> Note this is happening in *Spain*, where the entire country closes
> during July and August and flocks to the Mediterranean, so chances are
> that many mailboxes are full and rejecting incoming messages. The July
> 17th message could have caused an avalanche of bounced messages, and
> automated bounce processing may have dropped all of those addresses a
> few days later (bounce_score_threshold is 4.0,
> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings is 3).
> 
> In the end, my questions are
> 
>   1. *Is bounce processing a plausible cause (all 2700 addresses at the
>      same time)?*


Yes.


>   2. *I found no way to distinguish user-driven dropout messages, from
>      dropout messages caused by bounce processing; is there any?
>      *


Look in Mailman's 'bounce' log.


>   3. *Is there a way to avoid this from happening again next year?
>      (other than setting bounce_processing to 'no')*


I think there is more going on than a simple bounce of the July 17
message. With bounce_score_threshold = 4.0 and
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings = 3, it would require 4 bounces with no
two consecutive bounces separated by more than bounce_info_stale_after
days to disable a member, and then the member wouldn't be unsubscribed
for another 3 times bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval days.

If bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval is 8, that would explain
the 24 days from July 17 to Aug 7, but that still doesn't explain why
2700 users would have had non-stale bounce scores of 3 and then got a
4th bounce on July 17.

Mailman's 'bounce' log should have more clues.

There is also a possible issue with changing bounce_score_threshold. If
a member has old, stale bounce info with a score of x, and
bounce_score_threshold is reduced from a value greater than x to one
less than or equal to x, that member will be disabled even though the
score is stale. Could this be a reason?

- --
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From msapiro at value.net  Sun Aug 19 20:42:32 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 11:42:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner refuses to pass mail to users
In-Reply-To: <20070819171647.GF6676@tahoe.reservoir.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708191142320031109f969f@msapiro>

falko at tahoe.reservoir.com wrote:

>On Sun, Aug 19, 2007 at 12:02:52AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>> 
>> And what is in the smtp-failure log?
>> 
>
>This stuff: 
>
>Aug 19 13:09:18 2007 (7258) delivery to addr1 at reservoir.com failed with code -1: (111, 'Connection refused')
>Aug 19 13:09:18 2007 (7258) delivery to addr2 at reservoir.com failed with code -1: (111, 'Connection refused')
>Aug 19 13:09:18 2007 (7258) delivery to addr... at reservoir.com failed with code -1: (111, 'Connection refused')
>
>So the question I guess is, why is postfix refusing the connnection? How does mailman connect to 
>postfix?


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.073.htp>.

Mailman attempts to connect to SMTPPORT on SMTPHOST (defaults are port
25 on 'localhost') to deliver mail.


>I am using this in mm_cfg.py:
>
># Maildir
>USE_MAILDIR = Yes
>QRUNNERS.append(('MaildirRunner', 1))
>
>DEFAULT_DIGESTABLE = No
>
># Uses genaliases as covered by mailman docs.
>MTA = 'Postfix'
>
>
>In /etc/postfix/main.cf I have this:
>
>alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
>
>Inside /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases:
>
># STANZA START: list
># CREATED: Sun Aug 19 01:13:18 2007
>list:             /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/maildir/
>list-admin:       /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/maildir/
>list-bounces:     /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/maildir/
>list-confirm:     /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/maildir/
>list-join:        /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/maildir/
>list-leave:       /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/maildir/
>list-owner:       /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/maildir/
>list-request:     /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/maildir/
>list-subscribe:   /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/maildir/
>list-unsubscribe: /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/maildir/
># STANZA END: list


All of the above is relevant only for incoming mail to Mailman.  None
of it is relevant to the smtp failures.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Aug 19 22:06:00 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 13:06:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] preventing mailto and http links in archives,
 trimming hotmail footers etc.
In-Reply-To: <d49.e32c520.33ed7359@aol.com>
References: <d49.e32c520.33ed7359@aol.com>
Message-ID: <46C8A2A8.30908@value.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

BobLaJolla at aol.com wrote:
> Is there a setting to turn off the mailto and URL embedding of  links in the 
> web archive of list mail?  I have added the anti-spam  harvesting patch, and 
> these are less than useful now.


There is no such setting. You'd have to modify the code in the
__processbody_URLquote() function in Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py.


> Also, I noticed the email addresses have a superfluous underscore  prepended 
> to them in the archives (e.g., __user at aol.com_ (mailto:_user at aol.com) ).  Is 
> that a common bug, and  where might I track that down?


I don't see this in Mailman 2.1.9. What version/package is this?


> Finally, is there a patch or setting to kill the common footers  that some 
> mailers (like Hotmail) append to their outgoing emails?  For  example, aol 
> generously adds the footer below:
>  
>  
> "...Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at..."  etc.  
>  
>  
> Any way to automatically trim the most common of these before they  get to 
> the subscribers and archive?


There is no setting for this. You'd need something like a custom handler
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.067.htp>
to remove these. I'm not aware of any existing one.

- --
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Sun Aug 19 23:53:12 2007
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 16:53:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outlook user's reply went to -bounce address
Message-ID: <6B7601C6-EDF1-4550-AF28-0DA646C19FF0@goldmark.org>

I have a member of a list who attempted to reply to a posting to one  
of my lists and her reply went to the -bounces address instead of to  
the address in the From field of the message that she should have  
received.  Here is a header fragment of what see sent.


  To: <pta-board-bounces at lists.shepard-families.org>
  Message-id: <0JN000JJK4V8O8YA at vms044.mailsrvcs.net>
  MIME-version: 1.0
  X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
  X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510
  Content-type: multipart/alternative;
  	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7E1E8.D4BDA890"
  Thread-index: AcfiEr1Ir6dhRiUeQQ+HOAlSF6YEwg==

She doesn't know what she did.  In fact she has asked me what she did  
wrong.

The list is a perfectly ordinary list with no reply-to manipulation  
or the like.  And the message that she replied to others have  
successfully replied to without problem.

I really don't think that she's behind some stupid gateway that is  
mangling incoming mail.  She has a perfectly normal verizon.net address.

Does anyone know how an Outhouse user could have managed to reply to  
the -bounces address?  It strikes me that that would take a special  
effort.

-j

-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Aug 20 00:30:28 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 15:30:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outlook user's reply went to -bounce address
In-Reply-To: <6B7601C6-EDF1-4550-AF28-0DA646C19FF0@goldmark.org>
Message-ID: <PC176020070819153028078119f80d69@msapiro>

Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:

>I have a member of a list who attempted to reply to a posting to one  
>of my lists and her reply went to the -bounces address instead of to  
>the address in the From field of the message that she should have  
>received.  Here is a header fragment of what see sent.

<snip>

>Does anyone know how an Outhouse user could have managed to reply to  
>the -bounces address?  It strikes me that that would take a special  
>effort.


This is just one more manifestation of the issue discussed at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Luke.Daly at newcastle.edu.au  Mon Aug 20 03:22:26 2007
From: Luke.Daly at newcastle.edu.au (Luke Daly)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 11:22:26 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] enail commands
Message-ID: <46C97972.2D70.00D6.1@newcastle.edu.au>

Hi again

When getting your list administrators to use email commands that
require authentication where in the email is the password put in? in the
body? the subject? I imagine this is very easy and once again I have
shown my ignorance.

Luke Daly
Systems Officer
IT Infrastructure
Newcastle University
17000
 

 


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Aug 20 04:15:40 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 19:15:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] enail commands
In-Reply-To: <46C97972.2D70.00D6.1@newcastle.edu.au>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708191915400187ef3bb1e3@msapiro>

Luke Daly wrote:
>
>When getting your list administrators to use email commands that
>require authentication where in the email is the password put in? in the
>body? the subject? I imagine this is very easy and once again I have
>shown my ignorance.


Can you be more specific about what you are trying to do?

The syntax of the various email commands is described in the output
from the 'help' and 'set help' commands sent to the listname-request
address.

The one exception is email approval of a held message in which case, an

Approved: password

header needs to be included in the message containing the 'confirm'
command ('password' is the list's admin or moderator password).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Luke.Daly at newcastle.edu.au  Mon Aug 20 03:24:39 2007
From: Luke.Daly at newcastle.edu.au (Luke Daly)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 11:24:39 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] last request
Message-ID: <46C979F6.2D70.00D6.1@newcastle.edu.au>

Iam sorry next time ill continue the next few lines...RTFM

Luke Daly
Systems Officer
IT Infrastructure
Newcastle University
17000
 

 


From john at themellons.net  Mon Aug 20 06:49:22 2007
From: john at themellons.net (John Mellon)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:49:22 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing
Message-ID: <KKEEJBNMBACILCPDKKPAMECODKAA.john@themellons.net>

Hi there
I am new to this, please excuse.

My ISP has created a Mailman mailing list service, which is working fine,
except for one problem:

As list moderator/administrator, if I send an email to my subscribers, and
some subscribers have bad email addresses, I would like to receive a list of
those addresses that are bad.

My ISP does not seem to be able to help with this.

I understand from the FAQs that there is a bounce log file generated by
Mailman, but being removed from the technical admin of the service, I have
no access to that.

Has anyone got any experience in configuring Mailman to do what I need?

ps, we use 2.1.9
Kind regards

John Mellon
0414 447 631

From manlio_perillo at libero.it  Mon Aug 20 09:18:46 2007
From: manlio_perillo at libero.it (Manlio Perillo)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 09:18:46 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a few questions about the NNTP gateway
In-Reply-To: <46C7A4E5.9020905@value.net>
References: <46B76DC2.50702@libero.it> <46C7A4E5.9020905@value.net>
Message-ID: <46C94056.1040000@libero.it>

Mark Sapiro ha scritto:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Manlio Perillo wrote:
>> 1) The messages from the newsgroup are not sent on the mailing list.
>>     I don't know why, there is nothing in the error log
> 
> 
> Is Mailman's cron/gate_news being run every five minutes from Mailman's
> crontab?
> 

Thanks: the cron tab entry is still commented.
However I think that this should be documented in the admnistrative web 
interface.



Regards  Manlio Perillo

From mike.peachey at jennic.com  Mon Aug 20 09:33:28 2007
From: mike.peachey at jennic.com (Mike Peachey)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 08:33:28 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible to filter what is archived?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200708181428390140086b5773@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200708181428390140086b5773@msapiro>
Message-ID: <46C943C8.70000@jennic.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Mike Peachey wrote:
> 
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>> The above is a bit too simple. Something like
>>>
>>> def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
>>>     if mlist.umbrella_list:
>>>         del msg['x-no-archive']
>>>         msg['X-No-Archive'] = 'Yes'
>>>
>>> is probably better to avoid creating multiple X-No-Archive: headers.
>>>
>>> Also, if you insert the handler prior to 'ToArchive', the message (any
>>> message to an umbrella list) will not be archived at all. If you
>>> insert the handler after 'ToArchive' but prior to 'ToOutgoing', the
>>> message will be archived in the archive of the first umbrella list it
>>> hits, but won't be archived in any subsequent lists which is probably
>>> more like what you want.
>>>
>>
>> This is just what I need, thank you!
>>
>> However it seems that the "if mlist.umbrella_list:" statement is 
>> superfluous. On the assumption that the handler is being inserted AFTER 
>> the first archiving, then surely it's safe to assume that no message 
>> should be archived a second time and so ALL messages should get an 
>> X-No-Archive as soon as they've been archived once.
>>
>> Let me know if I'm off base here.
> 
> 
> Sorry for the long delay in replying. I have been away with no online
> access.
> 
> You are correct for what you want to accomplish. I.e. if you only want
> any message to be archived once in the archive of the first list it
> hits, then it is safe to add the X-No-Archive header to all messages
> after ToArchive and before ToOutging. However, there may be other
> cases where one might have a list (e.g. mailman-users at python.org)
> which is not an umbrella list and which has, e.g. a mail-archive.com
> or some other external archive address as a member to provide a
> searchable archive or some other archiving benefit, and in this case,
> one wouldn't want to send the message to the external archiver with an
> X-No-Archive header.
> 

Thanks for the reply. Since all our lists are archived, this is the way 
we're dealing with it and it has been working well so far.
-- 
Kind Regards,

__________________________________________________

Mike Peachey, IT
Tel: +44 114 281 2655
Fax: +44 114 281 2951
Jennic Ltd, Furnival Street, Sheffield, S1 4QT, UK
Comp Reg No: 3191371 - Registered In England
http://www.jennic.com
__________________________________________________

From guilherme.funchal at gmail.com  Mon Aug 20 15:09:24 2007
From: guilherme.funchal at gmail.com (Guilherme Funchal)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 10:09:24 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unset/set moderation bit
Message-ID: <e368268e0708200609x56d53910q2c2948461d4aaf9f@mail.gmail.com>

turn-off moderation bit from command line for one user...

Copy set_mod.py to /usr/sbin

To set...
withlist -r set_mod <listname> -s <email of user>

To unset
withlist -r set_mod <listname> -u <email of user>


One big hug for all...

-- 
"Voc? cria o seu pr?prio universo a medida que caminha"


==============================
Guilherme Funchal da Silva .`.

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Aug 20 16:14:54 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 07:14:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing
In-Reply-To: <KKEEJBNMBACILCPDKKPAMECODKAA.john@themellons.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708200714540843e5061a61@msapiro>

John Mellon wrote:
>
>My ISP has created a Mailman mailing list service, which is working fine,
>except for one problem:
>
>As list moderator/administrator, if I send an email to my subscribers, and
>some subscribers have bad email addresses, I would like to receive a list of
>those addresses that are bad.
>
>My ISP does not seem to be able to help with this.
>
>I understand from the FAQs that there is a bounce log file generated by
>Mailman, but being removed from the technical admin of the service, I have
>no access to that.
>
>Has anyone got any experience in configuring Mailman to do what I need?


Since you have no access to the 'bounce' log, here's what you can do.

Go to the Bounce  processing page in the web admin interface.

Read the whole page including the details links for the various
settings.

Set all the notifications to 'Yes'.

Set the other parameters appropriately for the volume of your list.

You will not see most individual bounces, but when a member with a bad
address reaches bounce_score_threshold, that member's delivery will be
disabled and you will receive an email notice including the actual
bounce DSN. When the bad address is removed, you will receive another
notice.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Aug 20 16:23:35 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 07:23:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a few questions about the NNTP gateway
In-Reply-To: <46C94056.1040000@libero.it>
Message-ID: <PC17602007082007233500621a04d361@msapiro>

Manlio Perillo 

>Mark Sapiro ha scritto:
>> 
>> Is Mailman's cron/gate_news being run every five minutes from Mailman's
>> crontab?
>> 
>
>Thanks: the cron tab entry is still commented.
>However I think that this should be documented in the admnistrative web 
>interface.


The istallation of the crontab is documented in the installation manual
(http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node41.html>.

I don't think it is appropriate to document cron/gate_news in the web
admin interface because the typical list admin can't do anything about
it anyway. It is an installation responsibility, not a list admin
responsibility.

Also, in Mailman as we ship it, the cron/gate_news entry is not
commented out. That was done either by your site or by some repackager.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dave.list at pixelhammer.com  Mon Aug 20 17:05:59 2007
From: dave.list at pixelhammer.com (DAve)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 11:05:59 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can this be done using Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <46C7AB05.4020104@value.net>
References: <46B88D8C.1050103@pixelhammer.com>	<p06240800c2ded7e2a492@[192.168.1.199]>	<46BA0AD6.7000503@pixelhammer.com>	<p06240801c2e02e0ad69e@[192.168.1.199]>
	<46C5A299.8070609@pixelhammer.com> <46C7AB05.4020104@value.net>
Message-ID: <46C9ADD7.4090703@pixelhammer.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> DAve wrote:
>> Brad Knowles wrote:
>>> On 8/8/07, DAve wrote:
>>>
>>>>  So in the idea of an announcement only list, we should be able to have
>>>>  the list owner post a message to multiple topics, correct? I did not see
>>>>  where cross posting a message to multiple topics within a single list
>>>>  was possible. Do you know if it is?
>>> I would think so, yes.  But you should probably wait for an answer from 
>>> someone who knows better how that part of the code actually works, like 
>>> maybe Mark Sapiro or Tokio.
>>>
>> Doesn't look like that answer is coming, I must be treading new ground. 
>> Is anyone interested in the answer if I setup a test install and try it?
> 
> 
> Sometimes people are out of electronic contact for weeks at a time :)

Hey I wasn't complaining! I figured I would just go try it myself so I 
did. It works exactly as you describe below which is what we want.

Now we just have to figure out how to manage the addresses and user 
preferences for it looks like it could go 100k subscribers. Currently we 
use ezmlm and we manage all subscriptions via a management interface and 
SQL which syncs the subscriber list with the client's AS400. We will 
check out the xmlrpc patch as well.

We are reading the FAQ on high volume lists and searching the archives now.

Thanks,

DAve

> 
> Topics are defined for a list.
> 
> Each member may subscribe to zero or more of the defined topics, and may
> additionally choose to receive messages which don't match any topic. If
> the member subscribes to zero topics, she receives all list messages. If
> the member subscribes to one or more topics, she receives (one copy) of
> all messages matching any of the subscribed topics, and if opted, those
> messages which match no topic.
> 
> Each topic definition includes a regexp which is matched against the
> Subject: header, the Keywords: header if any, and any initial body lines
> that look like Subject: or Keywords: headers up to the first non-header
> like body line or topics_bodylines_limit, whichever comes first.
> 
> 
>> As we understand it you can have topics, and subscribers will only 
>> receive messages directed at the topics they subscribe to.
> 
> 
> Plus messages which match no topic if they choose. But, since this is an
> announce list, you should be able to guarantee that all messages will
> match one or more topics.
> 
> 
>> This means a 
>> subscriber could subscribe to [members], [stores], and [retailers], if 
>> we send a message to [stores] they will receive it. If we send a message 
>> to all topics, subscribers will receive only one message. This is what 
>> we want.
> 
> 
> I don't understand what you mean by "all topics".
> 
> 
>> However, if we send a message only to [stores] and to [members], 
>> subscribers will receive two copies.
> 
> 
> No. Those members subscribed to either [stores] or to [members] or to
> both will each receive exactly one copy of the message.
> 
> 
>> This is not what we want. In order
>> to have a subscriber receive only one copy of the message, the message 
>> must go to ALL topics, [stores], [members], [retailers], [malls], 
>> [gas_stations], [gas_stations_with_inside_bathrooms], 
>> [gas_stations_with_outside_bathrooms_in_north_dakota], etc. Not what we 
>> want.
> 
> 
> The above is not correct. Each list member will receive either zero or
> one message depending on whether or not the message matches at least one
> subscribed topic.
> 
> - --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
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> =WVdO
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> 


-- 
Three years now I've asked Google why they don't have a
logo change for Memorial Day. Why do they choose to do logos
for other non-international holidays, but nothing for
Veterans?

Maybe they forgot who made that choice possible.

From dave.list at pixelhammer.com  Mon Aug 20 17:07:48 2007
From: dave.list at pixelhammer.com (DAve)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 11:07:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can this be done using Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c2ec34c3d653@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <46B88D8C.1050103@pixelhammer.com>
	<p06240800c2ded7e2a492@[192.168.1.199]>
	<46BA0AD6.7000503@pixelhammer.com>
	<p06240801c2e02e0ad69e@[192.168.1.199]>
	<46C5A299.8070609@pixelhammer.com>
	<p06240801c2ec34c3d653@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <46C9AE44.9060001@pixelhammer.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> On 8/17/07, DAve wrote:
> 
>>  Doesn't look like that answer is coming, I must be treading new ground.
>>  Is anyone interested in the answer if I setup a test install and try it?
> 
> Heck, even if no one else is interested in seeing how this test goes, 
> then you can certainly sign me up.  I've always wondered how the 
> "topics" stuff worked, and I've never had the chance to do much work 
> with them....
> 

Mark Sapiro answered my query very well, see his message. If you have 
any questions let me know. We played with it quite a bit Friday and it 
is still configured so I can goof around with it if needed.

DAve

-- 
Three years now I've asked Google why they don't have a
logo change for Memorial Day. Why do they choose to do logos
for other non-international holidays, but nothing for
Veterans?

Maybe they forgot who made that choice possible.

From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Mon Aug 20 21:24:25 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:24:25 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding One Address to accept_these_nonmembers
Message-ID: <200708201924.l7KJOPpD018560@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

I have a number of similarly named lists.  Is there a way through the
command line with withlist to ADD one e-mail address to the

     accept_these_nonmembers

list of e-mail addresses without going through the admin web interface
for each list to make the addition?  Each of the lists currently has
its own set of non-member posters, so I do not want to have the same
list of non-member posters for each list.  I know from a recent posting
how to change one variable setting in a number of lists, but this
request is slightly different.  Thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Aug 20 22:44:09 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 13:44:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding One Address to accept_these_nonmembers
In-Reply-To: <200708201924.l7KJOPpD018560@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC17602007082013440904064a41363f@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:

>I have a number of similarly named lists.  Is there a way through the
>command line with withlist to ADD one e-mail address to the
>
>     accept_these_nonmembers
>
>list of e-mail addresses without going through the admin web interface
>for each list to make the addition?  Each of the lists currently has
>its own set of non-member posters, so I do not want to have the same
>list of non-member posters for each list.  I know from a recent posting
>how to change one variable setting in a number of lists, but this
>request is slightly different.  Thanks.


Perhaps you're referring to
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-August/058051.html>,
but see
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-August/058038.html>
for a way to use bin/config_list (probably simpler than withlist) to
append to accept_these_nonmembers.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mpant at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Mon Aug 20 23:20:13 2007
From: mpant at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Meenal Pant)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:20:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Check for mailman
Message-ID: <46CA058D.6090302@ncsa.uiuc.edu>

My software uses Mailman. I am using GNU autotools to bundle my software
for distribution.  During ./configure I want to check if mailman is
installed and capture the path and version in  some variables. How do I
achieve this ?
Thanks
Meenal

From dbuntin at gvtc.com  Tue Aug 21 00:21:13 2007
From: dbuntin at gvtc.com (David Buntin)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 17:21:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual host problem - mail not originating from
	subdomain
Message-ID: <004f01c7e378$6c7c3ad0$5264010a@engineering.econtrols.com>

I'm a newbie to Mailman. I've read through the archives and seen many posts
around this topic. None of the threads seem to fit my problem. The solution
may be there, but perhaps I just can't see it. I apologize if it is.

 

Here's my problem with details changed to keep it generic:

 

- I have a server at www.domain.com <http://www.domain.com/>  and host a
list with address list1 at domain.com.

- I have configured a subdomain for a customer at www.subdomain.domain.com
<http://www.subdomain.domain.com/>  and host a list for that customer with
address list2 at subdomain.domain.com.

- I configured a Mailman virtual host per all the instructions and advice.
It works great with one exception.

- The "To:" field in all mail forwarded by Mailman from subdomain.domain.com
appears as list2 at domain.com. <--notice the "subdomain" has been omitted.

- Upon closer inspection of the email headers, it appears the subdomain is
also omitted from the "Return-Path:", "Sender:", and "Errors-To:" fields as
well.

 

I've tweaked the log messages generated by SMTPDirect to also log the "To"
field and see that the subdomain is omitted in the log message as well.

 

I'm using Mailman 2.1.9.

 

Can anyone help me with this problem??

 

Thanks

David Buntin

 

 


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Aug 21 01:45:47 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:45:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual host problem - mail not originating
	fromsubdomain
In-Reply-To: <004f01c7e378$6c7c3ad0$5264010a@engineering.econtrols.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070820164547009354987e0c@msapiro>

David Buntin wrote:
>
>Here's my problem with details changed to keep it generic:
>
> 
>
>- I have a server at www.domain.com <http://www.domain.com/>  and host a
>list with address list1 at domain.com.
>
>- I have configured a subdomain for a customer at www.subdomain.domain.com
><http://www.subdomain.domain.com/>  and host a list for that customer with
>address list2 at subdomain.domain.com.
>
>- I configured a Mailman virtual host per all the instructions and advice.
>It works great with one exception.
>
>- The "To:" field in all mail forwarded by Mailman from subdomain.domain.com
>appears as list2 at domain.com. <--notice the "subdomain" has been omitted.
>
>- Upon closer inspection of the email headers, it appears the subdomain is
>also omitted from the "Return-Path:", "Sender:", and "Errors-To:" fields as
>well.


Run the following command in Mailman's directory:

  bin/withlist -l -r fix_url list2 -u www.subdomain.domain.com

If that doesn't fix it, report the contents of mm_cfg.py and the
settings for DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST from Defaults.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dbuntin at gvtc.com  Tue Aug 21 05:48:05 2007
From: dbuntin at gvtc.com (David Buntin)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 22:48:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual host problem - mail not originating
	fromsubdomain
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070820164547009354987e0c@msapiro>
References: <004f01c7e378$6c7c3ad0$5264010a@engineering.econtrols.com>
	<PC176020070820164547009354987e0c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <006a01c7e3a6$14e9a040$0202a8c0@trout>

Mark,

Thanks for your offer to help.

For what it's worth, I created the lists after creating the subdomain and
virtual host. I created the lists with newlist and the appropriate --urlhost
and --email host options.

To be safe I tried running the fix_url script as you suggested with the same
results (no change.)

The contents of my mm_cfg.py are:

   from Defaults import *
   SMTPHOST='domain.com'
   add_virtualhost('www.subdomain.domain.com','subdomain.domain.com')
   SMTP_LOG_EVERY_MESSAGE = ('smtp','%(msg_message-id)s smtp to %(listname)s
or %(#recips)d recips, completed in %(time).3f seconds. To=%(msg_to)s Return
Path=%(msg_return-path)s Sender=%(msg_sender)s Errors To=%(msg_errors-to)s')


The contents of Default.py that you requested are:

   DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'domain.com'
   DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'domain.com'


Thanks again for your help,
David

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 6:46 PM
To: David Buntin; Mailman-Users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] virtual host problem - mail not originating
fromsubdomain

David Buntin wrote:
>
>Here's my problem with details changed to keep it generic:
>
> 
>
>- I have a server at www.domain.com <http://www.domain.com/>  and host a
>list with address list1 at domain.com.
>
>- I have configured a subdomain for a customer at www.subdomain.domain.com
><http://www.subdomain.domain.com/>  and host a list for that customer with
>address list2 at subdomain.domain.com.
>
>- I configured a Mailman virtual host per all the instructions and advice.
>It works great with one exception.
>
>- The "To:" field in all mail forwarded by Mailman from
subdomain.domain.com
>appears as list2 at domain.com. <--notice the "subdomain" has been omitted.
>
>- Upon closer inspection of the email headers, it appears the subdomain is
>also omitted from the "Return-Path:", "Sender:", and "Errors-To:" fields as
>well.


Run the following command in Mailman's directory:

  bin/withlist -l -r fix_url list2 -u www.subdomain.domain.com

If that doesn't fix it, report the contents of mm_cfg.py and the
settings for DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST from Defaults.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From msapiro at value.net  Tue Aug 21 06:21:27 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 21:21:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual host problem - mail not originating
	fromsubdomain
In-Reply-To: <006a01c7e3a6$14e9a040$0202a8c0@trout>
Message-ID: <PC176020070820212127003176c0173a@msapiro>

David Buntin wrote:
>
>For what it's worth, I created the lists after creating the subdomain and
>virtual host. I created the lists with newlist and the appropriate --urlhost
>and --email host options.


Good.


>To be safe I tried running the fix_url script as you suggested with the same
>results (no change.)


That's what I would have expected given that you created the list
appropriately in the first place.


>The contents of my mm_cfg.py are:
>
>   from Defaults import *
>   SMTPHOST='domain.com'
>   add_virtualhost('www.subdomain.domain.com','subdomain.domain.com')


This is good.


>   SMTP_LOG_EVERY_MESSAGE = ('smtp','%(msg_message-id)s smtp to %(listname)s
>or %(#recips)d recips, completed in %(time).3f seconds. To=%(msg_to)s Return
>Path=%(msg_return-path)s Sender=%(msg_sender)s Errors To=%(msg_errors-to)s')


Here it makes a difference if you are using VERP like delivery or not.
With VERP, msg_return-path, msg_sender and msg_errors-to will be as in
the incoming message. Without VERP, msg_sender and msg_errors-to will
be as set by Mailman for the outgoing message. See the 'MAS' comment
about 30 lines into SMTPDirect.process() for why.


>The contents of Default.py that you requested are:
>
>   DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'domain.com'
>   DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'domain.com'


Good.


>>It works great with one exception.
>>
>>- The "To:" field in all mail forwarded by Mailman from
>subdomain.domain.com
>>appears as list2 at domain.com. <--notice the "subdomain" has been omitted.
>>
>>- Upon closer inspection of the email headers, it appears the subdomain is
>>also omitted from the "Return-Path:", "Sender:", and "Errors-To:" fields as
>>well.


I don't think the problem is in Mailman. I think your incoming MTA is
rewriting these headers in the inbound message.  FAQ 6.22
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.022.htp>,
although written with outgoing messages in mind, may provide some
insight to this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Aug 21 06:30:54 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 21:30:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual host problem - mail not
	originatingfromsubdomain
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070820212127003176c0173a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC176020070820213054032876c0187e@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>I don't think the problem is in Mailman. I think your incoming MTA is
>rewriting these headers in the inbound message.


Or maybe the MTA sending to Mailman is doing the rewriting.


>FAQ 6.22
><http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.022.htp>,
>although written with outgoing messages in mind, may provide some
>insight to this.


The bottom line is in DNS, subdomain.domain.com must not have a CNAME.
It must have an A record or an MX record with the name of a domain
with an A record.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dbuntin at gvtc.com  Tue Aug 21 06:43:30 2007
From: dbuntin at gvtc.com (David Buntin)
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 23:43:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual host problem - mail not
	originatingfromsubdomain
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070820213054032876c0187e@msapiro>
References: <PC176020070820212127003176c0173a@msapiro>
	<PC176020070820213054032876c0187e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <00a301c7e3ad$d2818760$0202a8c0@trout>

Thanks.

This is what I've come to suspect as well (that the incoming MTA is doing
the rewriting.) With SMTPDirect.py it is easy to log the output of Mailman.
Is there an equivalent way to log the input before any processing of the
incoming mail has been performed?

I'm using sendmail as my MTA. I know this is beyond Mailman, but do you know
if there is an easy way to get sendmail to log its output to Mailman??

I am using a CNAME DNS alias for subdomain.domain.com. I've tried using a MX
record without luck. I'll try again and take it up the issues with my server
host.

Thanks again for your help,
David


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 11:31 PM
To: David Buntin; Mailman-Users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] virtual host problem - mail not
originatingfromsubdomain

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>I don't think the problem is in Mailman. I think your incoming MTA is
>rewriting these headers in the inbound message.


Or maybe the MTA sending to Mailman is doing the rewriting.


>FAQ 6.22
><http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.022.htp>,
>although written with outgoing messages in mind, may provide some
>insight to this.


The bottom line is in DNS, subdomain.domain.com must not have a CNAME.
It must have an A record or an MX record with the name of a domain
with an A record.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Aug 21 07:25:08 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 00:25:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual host problem - mail not
 originatingfromsubdomain
In-Reply-To: <00a301c7e3ad$d2818760$0202a8c0@trout>
References: <PC176020070820212127003176c0173a@msapiro>
	<PC176020070820213054032876c0187e@msapiro>
	<00a301c7e3ad$d2818760$0202a8c0@trout>
Message-ID: <p06240801c2f026d193ac@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/20/07, David Buntin wrote:

>  This is what I've come to suspect as well (that the incoming MTA is doing
>  the rewriting.) With SMTPDirect.py it is easy to log the output of Mailman.
>  Is there an equivalent way to log the input before any processing of the
>  incoming mail has been performed?

Mailman logs pretty much everything it knows how to log.  There 
aren't any "debug" modes you can turn on to increase the logging.

If you want to add more code to increase the logging, that would 
work, but then you'd need to have full privileged access to the 
server where Mailman is running, and you'd need to have at least some 
minimal idea of how to add new Python code to a program.

>  I'm using sendmail as my MTA. I know this is beyond Mailman, but do you know
>  if there is an easy way to get sendmail to log its output to Mailman??

With sendmail, you can turn up or down the logging detail in 
excruciatingly fine increments.  If you turn it up high enough, you 
should be able to get it to log the full contents of every message it 
handles.

Alternatively, you could have sendmail send the message to something 
like "tee" so that the full contents of the message(s) can be saved 
to a file somewhere, prior to their being handed to Mailman.

>  I am using a CNAME DNS alias for subdomain.domain.com. I've tried using a MX
>  record without luck. I'll try again and take it up the issues with my server
>  host.

Use an A record.  Even if it is exactly the same A record you use for 
other machines.  It will work.  Trust me.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From manlio_perillo at libero.it  Tue Aug 21 10:09:26 2007
From: manlio_perillo at libero.it (Manlio Perillo)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:09:26 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a few questions about the NNTP gateway
In-Reply-To: <200708071549.l77Fn8XB025028@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
References: <200708071549.l77Fn8XB025028@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <46CA9DB6.4010109@libero.it>

Barry Finkel ha scritto:
> [...]

> The patches were, for the most part,
>> undocumented, so I had no idea exactly what they did.  Nor did I know
>> if they would fit into the 2.1.9 source, as some of the patches were
>> based on pre-2.1.5 code.
> 
> Manlio Perillo replied:
>> This was unexpected!
>> Do you have opened a bug report?
> 
> No, because
> [...]
>      2) I have no idea if there is a bug.  I


Sorry for the late response.
I think that the lack of documentation in the code can be considered a bug.




Regards  Manlio Perillo

From dbuntin at gvtc.com  Tue Aug 21 22:01:08 2007
From: dbuntin at gvtc.com (David Buntin)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 15:01:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual host problem - mail not
	originatingfromsubdomain
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c2f026d193ac@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <PC176020070820212127003176c0173a@msapiro>
	<PC176020070820213054032876c0187e@msapiro>
	<00a301c7e3ad$d2818760$0202a8c0@trout>
	<p06240801c2f026d193ac@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <00eb01c7e42e$053fbc00$5264010a@engineering.econtrols.com>


>Alternatively, you could have sendmail send the message to something 
>like "tee" so that the full contents of the message(s) can be saved 
>to a file somewhere, prior to their being handed to Mailman.

OK. I modified my aliases file to pipe email to tee before it goes to
Mailman. (The line in the aliases file reads: mailman: "|tee /tmp/email-log
|/home/user/mailman/mail/mailman post list2") This works great and confirms
our suspicion. The log clearly reveals that the "To" field in the email is
replaced before it is delivered to Mailman. With a little more
investigation, I found that a neighboring MTA is replacing the "To" field
before it even gets to my server. As the mail RFCs require, the MTA is
expanding the CNAME alias subdomain.domain.com with the MX record of
domain.com. Mailman allows this "To" field with the missing subdomain to
pass through unmodified and forwards it to the mailing list. This gives the
appearance that Mailman is omitting the subdomain from the "To" field.

>Use an A record.  Even if it is exactly the same A record you use for 
>other machines.  It will work.  Trust me.

I deleted the DNS CNAME record and created a DNS A record for
subdomain.domain.com with a parameter equal to the IP address of my server
(the same address as domain.com.) This did not work at first. I found that
all email to subdomain.domain.com was rejected by my incoming MTA (sendmail)
with an error "config error: mail loops back to me (MX problem?) 554 5.3.5
Local configuration error"

This was the result of a sendmail configuration error. Sendmail was not
aware that it should service mail addressed to subdomain.domain.com. Now
that the CNAME record was gone and the neighboring MTA wasn't replacing
subdomain.domain.com with domain.com, sendmail on my server was no longer
able to receive mail originally sent to subdomain.domain.com.

To solve the problem, I made a change to my /etc/mail/sendmail.cw and added
subdomain.domain.com to the list. This change made sendmail accept email to
subdomain.domain.com. (This is the solution for my server running sendmail
on Red Hat Enterprise 2. I'm sure there is a similar setting for other
MTAs.)

Now it all works well.

Sorry for the long explanation. I wanted the resolution to be documented for
any others who may find and read this in the archives.

Mark/Brad, thank you for your dedication and willingness to help out the
inexperienced. I very much appreciate your efforts.

David Buntin



From mk at epasella.com  Tue Aug 21 23:31:18 2007
From: mk at epasella.com (Mervyn Kahn)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 23:31:18 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2 problems i cannot resolve
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAJq7y1NnJLdBgtUIpM+JAMnCgAAAEAAAAEGOMnygZERIj4KxG+AH5QoBAAAAAA==@epasella.com>

I have searched all the FAQ and cannot find answers to resolve my problem:
Requesting assistance with the following:
1)     How do I set up mailman so that the recipients email address appears
in the To section
And not my address which I an using to trigger the sending of the mailer?
2)     I would prefer that the from section does not contain all the extra
information how do I clean this up?
 Eg this appears Such as epasella-bounce at gmail.com on behalf of ******
 
Assistance in helping me resolve this issue would be appreciated.
 
Thank you.  Mervyn Kahn
 
 

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Aug 22 01:33:30 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 16:33:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2 problems i cannot resolve
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAJq7y1NnJLdBgtUIpM+JAMnCgAAAEAAAAEGOMnygZERIj4KxG+AH5QoBAAAAAA==@epasella.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708211633300484f5f2de02@msapiro>

Mervyn Kahn wrote:

>I have searched all the FAQ and cannot find answers to resolve my problem:
>Requesting assistance with the following:
>1)     How do I set up mailman so that the recipients email address appears
>in the To section
>And not my address which I an using to trigger the sending of the mailer?


In the web admin interface on the Non-digest options page, set
personalize to 'Full Personalization'.

If you don't see the personalize setting, set

OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes

in mm_cfg.py. If you don't have access to mm_cfg.py, you'll have to
negotiate with whoever does.


>2)     I would prefer that the from section does not contain all the extra
>information how do I clean this up?
> Eg this appears Such as epasella-bounce at gmail.com on behalf of ******


This is a Microsoft Outlook issue. Most other MUAs do not do this. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bob at tania.servebbs.org  Wed Aug 22 14:55:08 2007
From: bob at tania.servebbs.org (Bob)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:55:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bin/arch failing
Message-ID: <20070822085508.02133848@tania.servebbs.org>


Hi:

I am having a problem regenerating my archive.

Everything was going along fine, with daily updates being added to the
archive. I then wanted to refresh the entire archive and ran bin/arch
--wipe list1 

it failed. 

Archive articles go from 0000 to 66990

list1.mbox is: 526313754 Aug 21 20:19 list1.mbox

The server NetBSD 3.1, has 2GB memory

bin/arch first went through every article

Week-of-Mon-20070702
#65136 <20070703134009.74f75a8e at viola.tamara-b.org>
figuring article archives
[...]

then after many 

Updating HTML for article 4584
Updating HTML for article 4585
Updating HTML for article 4586
Updating index files for archive [Week-of-Mon-20050321]
  Date
  Subject
  Author
  Thread
Computing threaded index
Updating HTML for article 4587
Updating HTML for article 4588
Updating HTML for article 4589
Updating HTML for article 4590
Updating HTML for article 4591
Updating HTML for article 4592
Updating HTML for article 4593

[...]

Updating HTML for article 9353
Updating index files for archive [Week-of-Mon-20041122]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "bin/arch", line 200, in ?
    main()
  File "bin/arch", line 190, in main
    archiver.close()
  File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 322,
in close self.update_dirty_archives()
  File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 538,
in update_dirty_archives self.update_archive(i)
  File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 1121,
in update_archive self.__super_update_archive(archive)
  File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 439,
in update_archive self.__set_parameters(archive)
  File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 354,
in __set_parameters firstdate = self.database.firstdate(archive)
  File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line
209, in firstdate self.__openIndices(archive)
  File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line
240, in __openIndices self.__closeIndices()
  File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line
265, in __closeIndices index.close()
  File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line
187, in close fp.write(marshal.dumps(self.dict))
MemoryError

So I ran a subset of the archive:

bin/arch -s 10000 -e 66990 list1

And after a while:
Updating HTML for article 11689
Updating HTML for article 11690
Updating index files for archive [Week-of-Mon-20050815]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "bin/arch", line 200, in ?
    main()
  File "bin/arch", line 190, in main
    archiver.close()
  File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 322,
in close self.update_dirty_archives()
  File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 538,
in update_dirty_archives self.update_archive(i)
  File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 1121,
in update_archive self.__super_update_archive(archive)
  File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 439,
in update_archive self.__set_parameters(archive)
  File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 354,
in __set_parameters firstdate = self.database.firstdate(archive)
  File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line
209, in firstdate self.__openIndices(archive)
  File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line
240, in __openIndices self.__closeIndices()
  File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line
265, in __closeIndices index.close()
  File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line
187, in close fp.write(marshal.dumps(self.dict))
MemoryError

====================
_dirty_archives ??? something corrupt?

Is there a fix for this?


I can successfully run about the last 10,000 

bin/arch -s 50000 -e 66990 list1

But that is about 1/7th of the archive
Can I produce a complete archive in chunks of 10,000? How?

Best regards
Bob





From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Wed Aug 22 16:55:46 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 09:55:46 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a few questions about the NNTP gateway
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Manlio Perillo <manlio_perillo@libero.it>'
	dated: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:09:26 +0200
Message-ID: <200708221455.l7MEtkdP027327@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

Barry Finkel ha scritto:
>> [...]
>
>> The patches were, for the most part,
>>> undocumented, so I had no idea exactly what they did.  Nor did I know
>>> if they would fit into the 2.1.9 source, as some of the patches were
>>> based on pre-2.1.5 code.
>> 
>> Manlio Perillo replied:
>>> This was unexpected!
>>> Do you have opened a bug report?
>> 
>> No, because
>> [...]
>>      2) I have no idea if there is a bug.  I


Manlio Perillo replied:
>Sorry for the late response.
>I think that the lack of documentation in the code can be considered a bug.

Then I would have to file a bug report on almost all of the
Debian/Ubuntu patches to Mailman.  I looked at them all, and I discarded
most.  I kept a few that were related to where libraries were put.
I was not interested in making source code modifications where
1) I don't fully understand the source that comes from SourceForge, and
2) there is no documentation as to what the Debian changes do.

It would be nice to know what each change does, but since I am
not installing most of them, it really does not matter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Aug 22 17:01:12 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:01:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bin/arch failing
In-Reply-To: <20070822085508.02133848@tania.servebbs.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708220801120140ab4f5478@msapiro>

Bob wrote:
>
>Everything was going along fine, with daily updates being added to the
>archive. I then wanted to refresh the entire archive and ran bin/arch
>--wipe list1 
>
>it failed. 
>
>Archive articles go from 0000 to 66990
>
>list1.mbox is: 526313754 Aug 21 20:19 list1.mbox
>
>The server NetBSD 3.1, has 2GB memory
>
>bin/arch first went through every article
>
>Week-of-Mon-20070702
>#65136 <20070703134009.74f75a8e at viola.tamara-b.org>
>figuring article archives
>[...]
>
>then after many 
>
>Updating HTML for article 4584
>Updating HTML for article 4585
>Updating HTML for article 4586
>Updating index files for archive [Week-of-Mon-20050321]
>  Date
>  Subject
>  Author
>  Thread
>Computing threaded index
>Updating HTML for article 4587
>Updating HTML for article 4588
>Updating HTML for article 4589
>Updating HTML for article 4590
>Updating HTML for article 4591
>Updating HTML for article 4592
>Updating HTML for article 4593
>
>[...]
>
>Updating HTML for article 9353
>Updating index files for archive [Week-of-Mon-20041122]
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "bin/arch", line 200, in ?
>    main()
>  File "bin/arch", line 190, in main
>    archiver.close()
>  File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 322,
>in close self.update_dirty_archives()
>  File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 538,
>in update_dirty_archives self.update_archive(i)
>  File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 1121,
>in update_archive self.__super_update_archive(archive)
>  File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 439,
>in update_archive self.__set_parameters(archive)
>  File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 354,
>in __set_parameters firstdate = self.database.firstdate(archive)
>  File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line
>209, in firstdate self.__openIndices(archive)
>  File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line
>240, in __openIndices self.__closeIndices()
>  File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line
>265, in __closeIndices index.close()
>  File "/usr/pkg/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line
>187, in close fp.write(marshal.dumps(self.dict))
>MemoryError
>


This problem is mentioned in the description of the -e option of
bin/arch --help.


>I can successfully run about the last 10,000 
>
>bin/arch -s 50000 -e 66990 list1
>
>But that is about 1/7th of the archive
>Can I produce a complete archive in chunks of 10,000? How?


bin/arch --wipe -e 99999 list1
bin/arch -s 10000 -e 19999 list1
bin/arch -s 20000 -e 29999 list1
...
bin/arch -s 60000 list1

Note that --wipe is specified only on the first command.

Also, it is a good idea to stop Mailman during this process. The reason
is that if a new message arrives and is archived say between the
second and third commands, it will be assigned message number 20000 in
the new archive, but it will be message number 66991 in the .mbox.
This will guarantee that if you ever rebuild the archive again, all
message numbers from 20000 on will change, thus invalidating any saved
archive URLs.

Finally, it is a good idea to first check the .mbox file with
bin/cleanarch to make sure there are no unescaped From_ lines in
message bodies.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Aug 22 17:12:13 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:12:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bin/arch failing
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200708220801120140ab4f5478@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC17602007082208121307034e8fe4ac@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>bin/arch --wipe -e 99999 list1


Ooops! That should be

bin/arch --wipe -e 9999 list1


>bin/arch -s 10000 -e 19999 list1
>bin/arch -s 20000 -e 29999 list1
>...
>bin/arch -s 60000 list1

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Alan.Nicoll at xerox.com  Thu Aug 23 01:48:36 2007
From: Alan.Nicoll at xerox.com (Nicoll, Alan)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 16:48:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <5B0414FCF56DF04FB608605781957A995031E5@usaesm1mf01.na.xerox.net>

We are migrating about 300 lists from majordomo to mailman and would like
some help finding how to setup a few properties.  We've worked at this a
while and been unable to find where/how to set these.  (See below for
background.)

 

1.  We don't want any 'list owners' or 'moderators'.  Just we lucky few
admins will run the lists.

2.  We want the majority of the lists to be open for users to
subscribe/unsubscribe without any passwords required.

3.  We want the other very few lists to be setup so only the single list
admin(s) adds and removes names from the list.

4.  All of the lists are for broadcast only with the majority being used by
automated processes that do not react nicely to bounces or other
administrivia and are not members of each list.

 

Background:

We are producing a large mechatronics application with ~700
developers/testers, etc.  Our bug tracking, build and other automated
systems generate emails that get broadcast via these lists (the majority of
them).  The other lists are used by admins for system outage and other such
communications.

 

Alan E (Nick) Nicoll

DocuSP Problem System Administrator

Xerox Corporation

Xerox Centre Drive, MS: ESC1-615

El Segundo, CA 90245

Phone 310 333-5081  Internal 8*823-5081

Fax 310 333-6898

alan.nicoll at xerox.com 

 

XEROX

Technology   Document Management   Consulting Services

 

www.xerox.com 

 

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the addressee. If you have received this email in
error please delete it. Any views or opinions presented in this email are
solely those of the sender and do not necessarily represent those of Xerox
Corporation. Finally, the recipient should check this email is authentic and
examine it for the presence of viruses. Xerox does perform virus checks but
cannot accept liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by
this email.

 


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug 23 02:36:39 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 17:36:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <5B0414FCF56DF04FB608605781957A995031E5@usaesm1mf01.na.xerox.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708221736390921f964a580@msapiro>

Nicoll, Alan wrote:
>
>We are migrating about 300 lists from majordomo to mailman and would like
>some help finding how to setup a few properties.  We've worked at this a
>while and been unable to find where/how to set these.  (See below for
>background.)
>
> 
>
>1.  We don't want any 'list owners' or 'moderators'.  Just we lucky few
>admins will run the lists.


You don't need 'moderators', but you do need 'owners'. Mailman sends
various notices to listname-owner and this is in turn forwarded to the
list owner address(es) which should be deliverable. Presumably the
owner(s) will be you few lucky admins.


>2.  We want the majority of the lists to be open for users to
>subscribe/unsubscribe without any passwords required.


I'm not sure what you really are asking. List members have passwords to
allow them to authenticate for things like visiting private archives,
changing user options and unsubscribing without confirmation, but if
they don't need to do these things, they don't need to know/use any
password.

If you want users to be able to subscribe without confirmation, you
need to set

ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE = Yes

in mm_cfg.py and then set the list's Privacy options...->Subscription
rules->subscribe_policy to None.

Users cannot unsubscribe without either a password, a confirmation
email, or admin action.


>3.  We want the other very few lists to be setup so only the single list
>admin(s) adds and removes names from the list.


Set Privacy options...->Subscription rules->subscribe_policy to Require
Aproval and set Privacy options...->Subscription
rules->unsubscribe_policy to Yes to prevent users from (un)subscribing
themselves and then manage the membership via the admin Membership
Management...->Mass Subscription and Mass Removal pages or the
bin/add_members and bin/remove_members command line tools.


>4.  All of the lists are for broadcast only with the majority being used by
>automated processes that do not react nicely to bounces or other
>administrivia and are not members of each list.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp>
for advice on one-way lists.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Thu Aug 23 02:36:59 2007
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 19:36:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disabling confirmtionless subscriptions by list
	admins
Message-ID: <0469737C-489B-4A24-A8B6-F743CBAED3EE@goldmark.org>

Hello,

I'm a site administrator running mailman 2.1.9 and am beginning to  
delegate some responsibility to list administrators.  While I trust  
(the integrity of) these people, I am not fully confident that they  
completely grasp the importance of the confirmation process  
(particularly since some list members seem to have trouble with it).   
I do not want any of these list administrators to subscribe anyone  
(or change email addresses of members) without the member having to  
go through the confirmation process.

To my knowledge, the one place that a list administrator could by- 
pass the confirmation process for members is on the mass subscription  
page.  Are there other locations as well?  And, the heart of my  
question, can I disable those?

Cheers,

-j

-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Aug 23 03:08:24 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 20:08:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <5B0414FCF56DF04FB608605781957A995031E5@usaesm1mf01.na.xerox.net>
References: <5B0414FCF56DF04FB608605781957A995031E5@usaesm1mf01.na.xerox.net>
Message-ID: <p06240805c2f28c32577e@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/22/07, Nicoll, Alan wrote:

>  1.  We don't want any 'list owners' or 'moderators'.  Just we lucky few
>  admins will run the lists.

Then use a single central alias or mailing list as the list owner for 
each of those lists, and have that be directed to your admins.  For 
one site I help administer, "listmaster" is the registered owner of 
virtually all mailing lists on the system, and that in turn is an 
alias which gets sent out to a few admins on the project.

>  2.  We want the majority of the lists to be open for users to
>  subscribe/unsubscribe without any passwords required.

If your lists are publicly accessible, this will open you up to being 
abused as a DDOS facility.  Imagine your personal e-mail address 
being subscribed to several hundred mailing lists that don't do any 
validation or require any confirmation that you do actually want to 
be subscribed.

If these lists are not publicly accessible, and you have adequate 
security controls elsewhere, then you should be okay.


However, even if the users are directly subscribed and without 
confirmation, they'll still be issued passwords and those passwords 
will be sent out to them on a monthly basis, so that they have the 
ability to log into a web site on your server and manage their 
subscriptions.

I guess you could simply choose not to run the standard cron job for 
"mailpasswds", but that won't prevent the system from generating the 
passwords for the user, just from having it send out those password 
reminders on a monthly basis.

You're not going to get completely rid of this feature, at least not easily.

>  3.  We want the other very few lists to be setup so only the single list
>  admin(s) adds and removes names from the list.

As above, but make sure that these lists require approval (from the 
list owner/admin staff).

>  4.  All of the lists are for broadcast only with the majority being used by
>  automated processes that do not react nicely to bounces or other
>  administrivia and are not members of each list.

Mailman should handle issues with bounces internally, unless the 
recipient has a broken mail system which sends bounces back to the 
original sender.  You've seen some of that on this list, and I nuked 
the users in question very quickly, because I didn't want them to get 
into auto-responder wars with others on the list.

That said, you could always configure your automated processes to use 
a sender address that can handle bounces or auto-replies, and which 
is on the appropriate "white list" for each mailing list, so that it 
no longer matters whether bounces or auto-replies are sent back to 
the original sender or not.

Since you provide the sender address as input to the process when the 
message is generated, you can make this whatever you want.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug 23 03:47:41 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 18:47:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <p06240805c2f28c32577e@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <PC17602007082218474103599a8208b0@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>However, even if the users are directly subscribed and without 
>confirmation, they'll still be issued passwords and those passwords 
>will be sent out to them on a monthly basis, so that they have the 
>ability to log into a web site on your server and manage their 
>subscriptions.


The sending of reminders is a list option (on General
Options/Notifications). It can be defaulted to Off with

DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = No

in mm_cfg.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug 23 05:03:28 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 20:03:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disabling confirmtionless subscriptions by
	listadmins
In-Reply-To: <0469737C-489B-4A24-A8B6-F743CBAED3EE@goldmark.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602007082220032803281a5f4e44@msapiro>

Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:
>
>To my knowledge, the one place that a list administrator could by- 
>pass the confirmation process for members is on the mass subscription  
>page.  Are there other locations as well?


The only other way I can think of offhand is to set subscribe_policy to
'Require approval'. Then the admin can request a subscription by email
or listinfo subscribe form and approve the request without a
confirmation from the user.


>And, the heart of my  
>question, can I disable those?


Of course, you can do anything if you're willing to hack the code, but
short of that, all you can do is eliminate the entire Membership
Management... section including the Membership List from the admin
interface.

You probably don't want to do that, but if you did, you'd either copy
the entire ADMIN_CATEGORIES definition from Defaults.py to mm_cfg.py,
but leave out "'members',", or add

del ADMIN_CATEGORIES[ADMIN_CATEGORIES.index('members')]

to mm_cfg.py, but even doing this doesn't stop subscribes with approval
and no confirmation.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu  Thu Aug 23 17:40:09 2007
From: jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu (Jewel Makda)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 10:40:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 403 forbidden on public archives
Message-ID: <46CDAA59.80609@washburn.edu>

I am really lost as to why I have some archives which are public working 
fine but I one some of my lists if I make them public I receive the 
following:

Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /pipermail/listname/ on this server.

I have read the discussion archives and have not found a solution to 
this.  I am running Mailman 2.1.7.

Thanks,

-- 
Jewel


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Thu Aug 23 17:40:30 2007
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 10:40:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disabling confirmtionless subscriptions by
	listadmins
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007082220032803281a5f4e44@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007082220032803281a5f4e44@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4E7E08A8-3A95-4A2E-A04F-77EE26EF041F@goldmark.org>

On Aug 22, 2007, at 10:03 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:

>> And, the heart of my
>> question, can I disable those [ways a list admin could add  
>> addresses without confirmation]?

> Of course, you can do anything if you're willing to hack the code, but
> short of that, all you can do is eliminate the entire Membership
> Management... section including the Membership List from the admin
> interface.

I don't want to do that.  I do want the list admin to be able send  
out invites, for example.

I think I will just have to either leave things as they are or modify  
the code.  Probably the easiest modification would simply be to  
remove the "subscribe" option from the mass subscription page.  Of  
course someone could work around that by sending a properly crafted  
HTTP POST, but those aren't the sorts of list-admins I'm worried about.

-j

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug 23 17:56:44 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 08:56:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 403 forbidden on public archives
In-Reply-To: <46CDAA59.80609@washburn.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020070823085644017160601317@msapiro>

Jewel Makda wrote:

>I am really lost as to why I have some archives which are public working 
>fine but I one some of my lists if I make them public I receive the 
>following:
>
>Forbidden
>You don't have permission to access /pipermail/listname/ on this server.
>
>I have read the discussion archives and have not found a solution to 
>this.  I am running Mailman 2.1.7.


This is puzzling since most permission or web server config issues
would affect all public archives, not just some.

What is in your web server (apache?) error_log for this 403 error?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug 23 19:30:27 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 10:30:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 403 forbidden on public archives
In-Reply-To: <46CDB341.6000708@washburn.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708231030270921aed839b4@msapiro>

Jewel Makda wrote:

>[error] Symbloic link not allowed: /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/mylist

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> This is puzzling since most permission or web server config issues
>> would affect all public archives, not just some.
>>
>> What is in your web server (apache?) error_log for this 403 error?



I think you need

<Directory /usr/local/mailman/archives/public>
    Options +FollowSymLinks
</Directory>
  
in your httpd.conf. I suspect you have multiple virtual hosts and you
may have this where it applies to some, but not all hosts.

You need to have the above in a place where it applies globally, or you
need to have it in each VirtualHost section that has Mailman lists.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mk at epasella.com  Thu Aug 23 19:36:49 2007
From: mk at epasella.com (Mervyn Kahn)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 19:36:49 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem updating mailman in Plesk from 2.15 to 2.19
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAJq7y1NnJLdBgtUIpM+JAMnCgAAAEAAAAKRxdmtvkN5NgfoLu7Ct2+oBAAAAAA==@epasella.com>

 
Can anyone assist with resolving this problem for me?
Need to know about updating Mailman in Plesk from 2.15 to 2.19
I received the following response from Support at tecktonic who tried to
update Mailman for me:
 
I worked on this for quite a bit yesterday and came to the conclusion today
after talking 
with my senior that it runs the risk of breaking plesk by forcing an
install.
 
Also, there are currently no mailman 2.1.9 releases for the current distro 
you are running, CentOS 4.5. 
The release that I had been looking at in plesk was for CentOS 5.
 
If one is released it can be upgraded easily without fear of breaking
anything. 
This, however, is not the case at the moment.
 
Thank you.
 
Mervyn Kahn

From bluria at gmail.com  Thu Aug 23 20:00:45 2007
From: bluria at gmail.com (Brian Luria)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 14:00:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman -request problem
In-Reply-To: <fed90af00708231042n9b173a5u5465a72517733590@mail.gmail.com>
References: <fed90af00708231042n9b173a5u5465a72517733590@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fed90af00708231100j76d89184ufec4f8dbd45fb69a@mail.gmail.com>

>
> I have mulitple mailing lists setup - just set up and getting to know
> mailman (over majordomo)
>
> I am trying to use the -request option to have member lists sent to me
>
> Format:
>
> To: list-request at domain.com
>
> Subject: who password
>
> At first I didn't think it was working at all, then (literally as I was
> typing this post, they came to my inbox - 40 minutes later!)
>
> Is there a setting that is making it take that long?!
>

From mpant at ncsa.uiuc.edu  Thu Aug 23 20:12:18 2007
From: mpant at ncsa.uiuc.edu (Meenal Pant)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:12:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gnu Autotools: Mailman
Message-ID: <46CDCE02.4090300@ncsa.uiuc.edu>

My software uses Mailman. I am using GNU autotools to bundle my software
for distribution.  During ./configure I want to check if mailman is
installed and capture the path and version in  some variables. What rules should I define in configure.ac ? Look for mailmanctl using AC_CHECK_PROGS ? 
Thanks
Meenal


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug 23 20:30:44 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 11:30:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman -request problem
In-Reply-To: <fed90af00708231100j76d89184ufec4f8dbd45fb69a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708231130440609b9cf6fcd@msapiro>

Brian Luria wrote:
>>
>> I am trying to use the -request option to have member lists sent to me
>>
>> Format:
>>
>> To: list-request at domain.com
>>
>> Subject: who password
>>
>> At first I didn't think it was working at all, then (literally as I was
>> typing this post, they came to my inbox - 40 minutes later!)
>>
>> Is there a setting that is making it take that long?!


No.

Check the Received: headers in the response to see where the delay
occurred. If it occurred in Mailman, the most likely reason is a
backlogged 'out' queue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug 23 20:47:19 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 11:47:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Gnu Autotools: Mailman
In-Reply-To: <46CDCE02.4090300@ncsa.uiuc.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708231147190812b9cf707f@msapiro>

Meenal Pant wrote:

>My software uses Mailman. I am using GNU autotools to bundle my software
>for distribution.  During ./configure I want to check if mailman is
>installed and capture the path and version in  some variables. What rules should I define in configure.ac ? Look for mailmanctl using AC_CHECK_PROGS ? 


This is more an autoconf question than a Mailman question, but ...

I don't know how you can do this in general, since on a given system,
Mailman can be installed anywhere and there is no guarantee or even
likelyhood that Mailman's bin/ directory is in the user's path. Also,
there is no guarantee that the Mailman userid is 'mailman'.

If you can find the Mailman installation, version information is in the
file Mailman/Version.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Aug 24 03:12:17 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 20:12:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem updating mailman in Plesk from 2.15 to
 2.19
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAJq7y1NnJLdBgtUIpM+JAMnCgAAAEAAAAKRxdmtvkN5NgfoLu7
	Ct2+oBAAAAAA==@epasella.com>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAJq7y1NnJLdBgtUIpM+JAMnCgAAAEAAAAKRxdmtvkN5NgfoLu7
	Ct2+oBAAAAAA==@epasella.com>
Message-ID: <p06240804c2f3df58d50e@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/23/07, Mervyn Kahn wrote:

>  If one is released it can be upgraded easily without fear of breaking
>  anything.  This, however, is not the case at the moment.

I've worked at a project where they were using Plesk, and after a 
great deal of customization work by the hosting facility staff, they 
were able to work out a way to upgrade the system.


What they ended up doing was a from-source (not binary package) 
install of the appropriate recent version of Python for the updated 
version of Mailman, but in a separate non-standard location.  This 
way, you don't step on any programs or processes that are built-in to 
the system that need the old version of Python, but you can tell 
other programs where they can get the more up-to-date version.

Then they did a from-source (not binary package) install of the 
Mailman code, again in a non-standard location, and told it where to 
find the non-standard location for the more recent version of Python 
they had installed.  They then worked to integrate the new version of 
Mailman into the Plesk package, changing calling paths in the 
appropriate programs, using symlinks to change locations in binary 
programs that could not be edited, etc....


My understanding is that, in the end, they were able to get most of 
the standard Plesk stuff working with the updated version of Mailman, 
but that some of what we consider to be Mailman-standard stuff was 
broken.  They didn't care, since they had their Plesk integration.

Oh, and since they needed to do the same sort of thing for various 
other packages on the system, and each one was dependant on a 
different version of Python, they ended up with about four or five 
versions of Python installed in various different locations.


Not fun.  But if you know what you're doing and you can handle doing 
installs direct from the original source code as opposed to keyboard 
monkeys who can't deal with anything that doesn't come in a 
pre-digested binary package, then you should be able to get where you 
want to be.

Just don't try to do this at Rackspace, 1&1, or any of those other 
lowest-common-denominator hosting facilities.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From ivan at elabor.homelinux.org  Fri Aug 24 13:03:42 2007
From: ivan at elabor.homelinux.org (Ivan Ricotti)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 13:03:42 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix/mailman problem: gorup mismatch error
Message-ID: <46CEBB0E.7080905@elabor.homelinux.org>

Hello,

recently I tried to change my MTA on my server (Debian Etch) from Sendmail to
Postfix. Everything was ok except the Mailman! :(

Anytime I tried to post a message I had:

<my_list at my.domain.org>: Command died with status 2:
    "/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post my_list". Command output: Group
    mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as
    group "daemon", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as
    group "smmta".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group
    "daemon", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option
    `--with-mail-gid=smmta'.

Now, I read the mailman faq and now I fully understand the problem but I cannot
say how to solve it: since I'm using Debian and I installed mailman from the
package how can I change the GID option?

Thank you very much,
Ivan

-- 
Ivan Ricotti				
-------------------------------------------	
eLabor sc - via G. Garibaldi 33, 56127 Pisa
tel: +39 050970363 web: http://www.elabor.biz
email: ivan at elabor.homelinux.org
GnuPG KeyID: DFD581C5 - 13/11/2003

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Aug 24 16:00:12 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 07:00:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix/mailman problem: gorup mismatch error
In-Reply-To: <46CEBB0E.7080905@elabor.homelinux.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708240700120843fda491f7@msapiro>

Ivan Ricotti wrote:
>
>Anytime I tried to post a message I had:
>
><my_list at my.domain.org>: Command died with status 2:
>    "/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post my_list". Command output: Group
>    mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as
>    group "daemon", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as
>    group "smmta".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group
>    "daemon", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option
>    `--with-mail-gid=smmta'.
>
>Now, I read the mailman faq and now I fully understand the problem but I cannot
>say how to solve it: since I'm using Debian and I installed mailman from the
>package how can I change the GID option?


I can't tell you how to change the wrapper's expected group in a Debian
package. That's a Debian question, not a Mailman question.

But I can tell you that Postfix will pipe to Mailman using the
owner:group of the aliases* files in which it finds the Mailman
aliases, so you may be able to fix this on the Postfix side by
changing that owner:group or by putting Mailman's aliases in separate
files with appropriate owner:group.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From crakup at hotmail.com  Sat Aug 25 04:18:44 2007
From: crakup at hotmail.com (=?Windows-1252?Q?carlos_narv=E1ez?=)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 21:18:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help please
Message-ID: <BAY141-W12049834BDA0AC5099C1E7D1D00@phx.gbl>

Hi: I'm a bit of a newbie so bare with me. I'm trying to figure out how to setup a newsletter submission field for my sites www.aerolineasmexicanas.com.mx and www.juegopixel.com , so i have mailman setup on my hosted server and a db created in it, but i don't know where to get the script for my page itself and then how to do the rest of the setup. There has to be some kind of instruction for this process somewhere online i just have no idea where. Can someone please point me in the right direction?  My host isn't offering any help and my searches are fruitless, also the mailman docs don't seem to explain this, just the actual mailman setup. I think i'm looking for php script but i don?t know for sure. Please help, Thanks.
_________________________________________________________________
?Descarga m?s de 30 emoticones GRATIS y haz m?s divertidas tus charlas!
http://emoticons.prodigymsn.com/

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Aug 25 04:52:43 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 19:52:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help please
In-Reply-To: <BAY141-W12049834BDA0AC5099C1E7D1D00@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY141-W12049834BDA0AC5099C1E7D1D00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <46CF997B.7040202@value.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

carlos narv?ez wrote:
> Hi: I'm a bit of a newbie so bare with me. I'm trying to figure out
> how to setup a newsletter submission field for my sites
> www.aerolineasmexicanas.com.mx and www.juegopixel.com , so i have
> mailman setup on my hosted server and a db created in it, but i don't
> know where to get the script for my page itself and then how to do
> the rest of the setup. There has to be some kind of instruction for
> this process somewhere online i just have no idea where. Can someone
> please point me in the right direction?  My host isn't offering any
> help and my searches are fruitless, also the mailman docs don't seem
> to explain this, just the actual mailman setup. I think i'm looking
> for php script but i don?t know for sure. Please help, Thanks. 


If I understand correctly, you are trying to set something up to post to
a Mailman list from a web form. Mailman is designed to receive posts by
email, not by web forms. You are correct that you would need some php,
java or other kind of script in your web page to email the post to the
Mailman list. Such a thing would not be hard to create, but I am not
aware of any that exist.

- --
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Aug 25 06:14:00 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 23:14:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help please
In-Reply-To: <BAY141-W12049834BDA0AC5099C1E7D1D00@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY141-W12049834BDA0AC5099C1E7D1D00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <p06240801c2f55c3118f4@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/24/07, carlos narv?ez wrote:

>  My host isn't offering any help and my searches are fruitless, also
>  the mailman docs don't seem to explain this, just the actual mailman
>  setup. I think i'm looking for php script but i don't know for sure.
>  Please help, Thanks.

Mailman is not designed to be used in a hosted 
environment without the host providing local 
support for their users.  If your hosting 
provider is not providing support, then you've 
got the wrong hosting provider.

The primary intended environment for Mailman is 
where you own the entire machine (or you 
effectively own it through a lease), and you've 
got full privileged access to all the affected 
systems.  There's lots of stuff that will 
probably need to be done on a periodic or ad-hoc 
basis to support the system, and some of those 
things require this level of access.  Therefore, 
if you try to use Mailman outside of this 
environment, you are then completely dependant on 
the hosting provider.


If you want to look for a more friendly provider, 
take a look at the Mailman FAQ Wizard page at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.017.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brian at emwd.com  Sat Aug 25 14:08:45 2007
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 08:08:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help please
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c2f55c3118f4@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <BAY141-W12049834BDA0AC5099C1E7D1D00@phx.gbl>
	<p06240801c2f55c3118f4@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAPy4MrPRNNZGh9IPjC9bIqvCgAAAEAAAAG9pIW8oDrVIn0Iy332S+FEBAAAAAA==@emwd.com>

Hi Carlos:

Just to let you know we fully support mailman and have been doing so for
years now. We also have a knowledgeable php programmer on staff who has
developed some custom applications to work with mailman. Our programming
service is not free but we do offer reasonable rates. You can read more
about our mailman services at http://www.emwd.com/mailman.html. We are also
listed in the URL of mailman hosting providers that Brad has provided.

Kind regards,
Brian Carpenter
--------------------------------------
EMWD -  Executive Officer
 
-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Brad
Knowles
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 12:14 AM
To: carlos narv?ez; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Help please

On 8/24/07, carlos narv?ez wrote:

>  My host isn't offering any help and my searches are fruitless, also
>  the mailman docs don't seem to explain this, just the actual mailman
>  setup. I think i'm looking for php script but i don't know for sure.
>  Please help, Thanks.

Mailman is not designed to be used in a hosted 
environment without the host providing local 
support for their users.  If your hosting 
provider is not providing support, then you've 
got the wrong hosting provider.

The primary intended environment for Mailman is 
where you own the entire machine (or you 
effectively own it through a lease), and you've 
got full privileged access to all the affected 
systems.  There's lots of stuff that will 
probably need to be done on a periodic or ad-hoc 
basis to support the system, and some of those 
things require this level of access.  Therefore, 
if you try to use Mailman outside of this 
environment, you are then completely dependant on 
the hosting provider.


If you want to look for a more friendly provider, 
take a look at the Mailman FAQ Wizard page at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.017.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brian%40emwd.com

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From manlio_perillo at libero.it  Sat Aug 25 19:16:06 2007
From: manlio_perillo at libero.it (Manlio Perillo)
Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2007 19:16:06 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a few questions about the NNTP gateway
In-Reply-To: <200708221455.l7MEtkdP027327@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
References: <200708221455.l7MEtkdP027327@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <46D063D6.30809@libero.it>

Barry Finkel ha scritto:
> [...]
>> Sorry for the late response.
>> I think that the lack of documentation in the code can be considered a bug.
> 
> Then I would have to file a bug report on almost all of the
> Debian/Ubuntu patches to Mailman.  I looked at them all, and I discarded
> most.  I kept a few that were related to where libraries were put.
> I was not interested in making source code modifications where
> 1) I don't fully understand the source that comes from SourceForge, and
> 2) there is no documentation as to what the Debian changes do.
> 
> It would be nice to know what each change does, but since I am
> not installing most of them, it really does not matter.

Do the debian maintainer of Mailman frequent this mailing list?



Regards  Manlio Perillo

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Aug 26 07:39:25 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 00:39:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a few questions about the NNTP gateway
In-Reply-To: <46D063D6.30809@libero.it>
References: <200708221455.l7MEtkdP027327@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
	<46D063D6.30809@libero.it>
Message-ID: <p06240806c2f6c20bf89f@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/25/07, Manlio Perillo wrote:

>  Do the debian maintainer of Mailman frequent this mailing list?

Not so far as I know.

Improved contact between our project and the other projects which 
take our code and create binary packages is one thing that we would 
like to work on, but of course the two biggest problems are:

	1.  Finding out which projects are actually doing what with
		our code

And:

	2.  Motivating them to actually come talk to us about their
		changes


If you know who the maintainer of the Debian packages is, and you can 
light a fire under them to get them to come participate on this list, 
we'd appreciate that.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From tmz at pobox.com  Sun Aug 26 07:42:35 2007
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 01:42:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a few questions about the NNTP gateway
In-Reply-To: <p06240806c2f6c20bf89f@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <200708221455.l7MEtkdP027327@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
	<46D063D6.30809@libero.it> <p06240806c2f6c20bf89f@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <20070826054235.GC4498@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

(Disclaimer: I'm not a Debian maintainer or user)

Brad Knowles wrote:
> On 8/25/07, Manlio Perillo wrote:
> 
>>  Do the debian maintainer of Mailman frequent this mailing list?
> 
> Not so far as I know.
> 
> Improved contact between our project and the other projects which 
> take our code and create binary packages is one thing that we would 
> like to work on, but of course the two biggest problems are:
> 
> 	1.  Finding out which projects are actually doing what with
> 		our code

AFAICS, The Debian patches to Mailman are here:

http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-mailman/trunk/debian/patches/

> If you know who the maintainer of the Debian packages is, and you can 
> light a fire under them to get them to come participate on this list, 
> we'd appreciate that.

For anyone interested, the maintainer contact addresses and quite a
bit of other info is available on the package info pages:

http://packages.debian.org/stable/mail/mailman
http://packages.qa.debian.org/m/mailman.html

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nothing is so simple that it cannot be misunderstood.
    -- Teague's Paradox

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From manlio_perillo at libero.it  Sun Aug 26 09:16:40 2007
From: manlio_perillo at libero.it (Manlio Perillo)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 09:16:40 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a few questions about the NNTP gateway
In-Reply-To: <p06240806c2f6c20bf89f@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <200708221455.l7MEtkdP027327@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
	<46D063D6.30809@libero.it> <p06240806c2f6c20bf89f@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <46D128D8.9020103@libero.it>

Brad Knowles ha scritto:
> On 8/25/07, Manlio Perillo wrote:
> 
>>  Do the debian maintainer of Mailman frequent this mailing list?
> 
> Not so far as I know.
> 
> Improved contact between our project and the other projects which take 
> our code and create binary packages is one thing that we would like to 
> work on, but of course the two biggest problems are:
> 

 > [...]

That's strange.
One of the Debian policicy is the strict contact between the package 
maintainer and the upstream software authors.

The Debian maintainer(s) of Mailman can be easily found at:
http://packages.qa.debian.org/m/mailman.html



Regards  Manlio Perillo

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Aug 27 03:45:52 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 20:45:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a few questions about the NNTP gateway
In-Reply-To: <46D128D8.9020103@libero.it>
References: <200708221455.l7MEtkdP027327@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
	<46D063D6.30809@libero.it> <p06240806c2f6c20bf89f@[192.168.1.199]>
	<46D128D8.9020103@libero.it>
Message-ID: <p06240801c2f7dcf948f3@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/26/07, Manlio Perillo wrote:

>  That's strange.
>  One of the Debian policicy is the strict contact between the package
>  maintainer and the upstream software authors.

See my previous message on this thread.

>  The Debian maintainer(s) of Mailman can be easily found at:
>  http://packages.qa.debian.org/m/mailman.html

And they should already know how to contact us, and where all of our 
respective resources are.  If they're going to be making 
modifications to our code, the only scalable option is for them to 
use our mechanisms to send their changes to us, and then it's up to 
us as to whether or not those are accepted and incorporated into the 
mainstream codebase.

There simply are no other scalable options.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Aug 27 03:44:16 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 20:44:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a few questions about the NNTP gateway
In-Reply-To: <20070826054235.GC4498@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
References: <200708221455.l7MEtkdP027327@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
	<46D063D6.30809@libero.it> <p06240806c2f6c20bf89f@[192.168.1.199]>
	<20070826054235.GC4498@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <p06240800c2f7dbc20034@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/26/07, Todd Zullinger wrote:

>  AFAICS, The Debian patches to Mailman are here:
>
>  http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/pkg-mailman/trunk/debian/patches/

And our development page on SourceForge is at 
<http://sourceforge.net/projects/mailman>, although internally all 
the new work is being maintained through Bazar on Launchpad (see 
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/2007/06/22/Bye+bye+Subversion%2C+Hello+Bazaar>). 
The Debian developers are welcome to send their patches to us through 
one of these two mechanisms.

>  For anyone interested, the maintainer contact addresses and quite a
>  bit of other info is available on the package info pages:
>
>  http://packages.debian.org/stable/mail/mailman
>  http://packages.qa.debian.org/m/mailman.html

And all of our contact information is at <http://www.list.org/>, and 
the related pages.


There's no way we can possibly track down every single developer on 
every single platform that is creating localized patches for Mailman 
on their platform.  The only way this process can possibly work is if 
they use our mechanisms to send their patches to us.

There are no other scalable options.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From tmz at pobox.com  Mon Aug 27 03:19:07 2007
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 21:19:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] a few questions about the NNTP gateway
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c2f7dbc20034@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <200708221455.l7MEtkdP027327@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
	<46D063D6.30809@libero.it> <p06240806c2f6c20bf89f@[192.168.1.199]>
	<20070826054235.GC4498@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<p06240800c2f7dbc20034@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <20070827011907.GB4498@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> There's no way we can possibly track down every single developer on
> every single platform that is creating localized patches for Mailman
> on their platform.  The only way this process can possibly work is
> if they use our mechanisms to send their patches to us.

FWIW, I was not suggesting that the Mailman developer's track down the
Debian maintainers (or any other packagers).  I only provided the
links to the Debian info in case someone on this list wanted to
contact them and ask about the patches they have.

I don't follow the developer list so I don't know if any of the Debian
maintainers are on it or if they've submitted any non-debian-specific
patches to the Mailman developers.

If they haven't, then I think they're being quite negligent -- as,
apparently, does the Debian policy guidelines.

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nothing says, "Obey me!" like a bloody head on a fence post.
    -- Stewie Griffin

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From jean at dancecentral.com.au  Mon Aug 27 07:21:48 2007
From: jean at dancecentral.com.au (Jean Stora)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 15:21:48 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting all names and addresses from a list
Message-ID: <02f401c7e86a$30083490$0202a8c0@Adele>

Hello,

I use mailman 2.1.9 cp2.

Hypothetical data:
site: www.mysite.com
List name: news

I am using the web interface only to modify the list, that means I am not at the server.
I need to export the entire list of names and email addresses.
I have had a hard time but finally got this imput to give me the email addresses:
http://mail.mysite.com/mailman/roster/news_mysite.com

I have 2 problems:

1- I am able to only get a partial list because somehow it's hiding some private members.
2- I need the names as well.

Can you help solving the problem....

I need the entire list to display including names and email addresses.

I had a look at the archives and info like: 
To export the list of users subscribed to the list:
 ~mailman/bin/get_members <listname> 

But I can't figure out how to use that command... do I insert it in my url request in the browser?

Help....

Thanks

Jean

From mk at epasella.com  Mon Aug 27 11:56:41 2007
From: mk at epasella.com (Mervyn Kahn)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 11:56:41 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Where to obtain an updated version
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAJq7y1NnJLdBgtUIpM+JAMnCgAAAEAAAAKCdtyfN2mdEkN1ZgOVJUgcBAAAAAA==@epasella.com>

 
Can anyone assist with the following information?
 
Where can I obtain the latest version of mailman for downloading.
 
Currently have 2.015 installed.
 
Looking for where to download the version 2.09
 
 
Thank you.
 
Mervyn Kahn

From yan at jointtech.com  Mon Aug 27 12:48:28 2007
From: yan at jointtech.com (Yan Herndon)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 03:48:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Relaying error
Message-ID: <5693401817AB114984AB28E0F435B69C06B03E@jtlserver1.JointTechnologiesLtd.lan>

Hi all-

I'm having a problem with my lists.  All remote mail stopped being
delivered.

I'm running Plesk 8.2 on CentOS.

Dedicated server.

Mailman was preinstalled.

 

I have done some googleing.  Well actually my eyes are bleeding from all
the reading.  Seems like the problem is that mailman wants to send mail
as localhost which is not allowed by Qmail.

The lists were working and I'm suspicious of a plesk update that
happened a couple days ago via the updater.  I know plesk isn't your
responsibility but thought you may know something.  

 

The smtp-error log contains many similar entries to this:

Aug 12 07:55:55 2007 (3353) : {'iitgr at DOMAIN.edu': (553, "sorry, that
domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)")}, msgid:
<mailman.58.1186919753.3350.list at mydomain.com>

Aug 12 07:55:55 2007 (3353) delivery to iitgr at domain.edu failed with
code 553: sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts
(#5.7.1)

 

Thanks,

Yan Herndon

Director of Technology

Joint Technologies LTD

949-361-1158

 


From jean at dancecentral.com.au  Mon Aug 27 14:56:43 2007
From: jean at dancecentral.com.au (Jean Stora)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 22:56:43 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting all names and addresses from a list
	including private members
Message-ID: <066201c7e8a9$ba5afa30$0202a8c0@Adele>

Hello,

Using the request option with "who password", I was able to retrieve the names and email addresses on my list, however it's hiding some private members.

I tried "help" but the command for that wasn't there.

Anybody knows the command or keyword to retrieve the entire list including private member and their names?


Jean

From matt.l.zimmerman at gmail.com  Mon Aug 27 16:36:33 2007
From: matt.l.zimmerman at gmail.com (Matt Zimmerman)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:36:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Templates
Message-ID: <50852730708270736p521eb3edtf22216be93405ed6@mail.gmail.com>

Mailman-users,

I am using Mailman 2.18 on Solaris 10. The issue that I am having is that I
need to add a prefix in front of the certain %(url)s so that it will reflect
our vpn. I can change a few but when I try to change the %(confirmurl)s to:

(/usr/local/mailman/templates/en)
vi postheld.txt

 hostname.com/mailman/confirm/%(listname)s/%(cookie)s The email looks like
this

hostname.com/mailman/confirm/fake_list/%(cookie)s

Is there anyway I can fix this? If you need me to go into more detail please
let me know.

Thanks


 <https://igc.infragard.org/http/listserv.infragard.org:8080/mailman/confirm/Test/%%28cookie%29s>

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Aug 27 17:36:34 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 08:36:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting all names and addresses from a
	listincluding private members
In-Reply-To: <066201c7e8a9$ba5afa30$0202a8c0@Adele>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708270836340187162e213d@msapiro>

Jean Stora wrote:
>
>Anybody knows the command or keyword to retrieve the entire list including private member and their names?


In Mailman 2.1.10 (not released yet), the email command 'who password'
with the list admin or moderator password will show all members. In
the mean time, given that you don't have access to Mailman's
bin/list_members command on the server, the only way to do this is by
a script which screen scrapes the web admin membership pages. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Aug 27 17:43:34 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 08:43:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Where to obtain an updated version
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAJq7y1NnJLdBgtUIpM+JAMnCgAAAEAAAAKCdtyfN2mdEkN1ZgOVJUgcBAAAAAA==@epasella.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708270843340812162e23ae@msapiro>

Mervyn Kahn wrote:
> 
>Looking for where to download the version 2.09


<http://sourceforge.net/projects/mailman>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Aug 27 17:51:01 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 08:51:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Relaying error
In-Reply-To: <5693401817AB114984AB28E0F435B69C06B03E@jtlserver1.JointTechnologiesLtd.lan>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708270851010140162e20ed@msapiro>

Yan Herndon wrote:
>
>I'm having a problem with my lists.  All remote mail stopped being
>delivered.
>
>I'm running Plesk 8.2 on CentOS.
>
>Dedicated server.
>
>Mailman was preinstalled.
>
> 
>
>I have done some googleing.  Well actually my eyes are bleeding from all
>the reading.  Seems like the problem is that mailman wants to send mail
>as localhost which is not allowed by Qmail.
>
>The lists were working and I'm suspicious of a plesk update that
>happened a couple days ago via the updater.  I know plesk isn't your
>responsibility but thought you may know something.  


Neither is Qmail, but ...

Mailman delivers to the SMTP server and port defined by SMTPHOST and
SMTPPORT which default to 'localhost' and 0 (which really means 25)
respectively. You can assign these any values you wish in mm_cfg.py
(or remove or change an existing assignment) if that will solve the
problem.

However, it really seems that Qmail is not configured properly if it
won't relay mail originating at 'localhost'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Aug 27 18:19:42 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 09:19:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Templates
In-Reply-To: <50852730708270736p521eb3edtf22216be93405ed6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007082709194205935d55723b@msapiro>

Matt Zimmerman" <matt.l.zimmerman at gmail.com>
   Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:36:33 -0400
     To: Mailman-Users at python.org

>Mailman-users,
>
>I am using Mailman 2.18 on Solaris 10. The issue that I am having is that I
>need to add a prefix in front of the certain %(url)s


To you need to change only some URLs or can you change all?  The proper
way to change all urls is to change DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN in mm_cfg.py
and then run fix_url on all lists. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=default_url_pattern&querytype=simple&casefold=yes&req=search>.


>so that it will reflect
>our vpn. I can change a few but when I try to change the %(confirmurl)s to:
>
>(/usr/local/mailman/templates/en)
>vi postheld.txt
>
> hostname.com/mailman/confirm/%(listname)s/%(cookie)s The email looks like
>this
>
>hostname.com/mailman/confirm/fake_list/%(cookie)s


First, never edit files in /usr/local/mailman/templates/en. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>
for the way to create edited versions of templates to apply sitewide
or to a particular domain or list.

Your change doesn't work because the replacement dictionary for this
template contains an entry for 'confirmurl', but it doesn't contain an
entry for 'cookie'.


>Is there anyway I can fix this? If you need me to go into more detail please
>let me know.

> <https://igc.infragard.org/http/listserv.infragard.org:8080/mailman/confirm/Test/%%28cookie%29s>

Fix it by putting something like

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://igc.infragard.org/http/%s:8080/mailman/'

in mm_cfg.py and running fix_url on the lists.

If you can't do that, you'll have to modify code, in this case by
adding something like

        d['cookie'] = cookie

to the appropriate place in the hold_for_approval function in
Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From li.chenglun at gmail.com  Mon Aug 27 19:07:36 2007
From: li.chenglun at gmail.com (Jack Li)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:07:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Retaining mails in inbox
Message-ID: <61f5d20e0708271007h1f602f74qf995ac9f7e89843d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all:
I am currently managing a mailing list providing by mailman.
Recently I am thinking of archiving the mails into a forum.
The tools I am using to make that happen goes into the INBOX of an email
account to retrieve emails.
I have tested it with my personal email account and it works.
However, it seems that mailman doesn't keep the mails in inbox so I couldn't
retrieve any mail from it.
Is there a way to retain mails in in box?
Thanks in advance!

[PS: I am actually using "mailhandler", a module of drupal to get mails from
email account]

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Aug 27 19:44:49 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:44:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Retaining mails in inbox
In-Reply-To: <61f5d20e0708271007h1f602f74qf995ac9f7e89843d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708271044490843e4f542fc@msapiro>

Jack Li wrote:

>I have tested it with my personal email account and it works.
>However, it seems that mailman doesn't keep the mails in inbox so I couldn't
>retrieve any mail from it.
>Is there a way to retain mails in in box?


There is no 'inbox' for Mailman as normally installed. Incoming mail is
piped by the MTA directly to Mailman without ever being stored in an
'inbox'.

What you need to do is subscribe some local address to the list(s) so
that list posts are delivered to the inbox of that address and use
that as the source of messages for the archive forum.

Alternatively, you may be able to use Mailman's
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file(s) directly as the
inbox for the archive forum.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jon.slater at mesanetworks.net  Tue Aug 28 02:06:32 2007
From: jon.slater at mesanetworks.net (Jon Slater)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 18:06:32 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I include myself?
Message-ID: <009c01c7e907$4a8324e0$df896ea0$@slater@mesanetworks.net>

Hi Everyone,

I know this is a really dumb question, but until recently, I have always
received a copy of any e-mail I sent to a list that I'm a member of.

But now, I'm not.  I send e-mail to the board list, and I never receive a
copy.   I know (by the fact I get responses) that everyone else is getting
the message, but not me.  :-( 

I don't want to have to CC myself.  What don't I have checked?

Thanks!

Jon



 


No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.9/975 - Release Date: 8/26/2007
9:34 PM
 

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Tue Aug 28 02:50:48 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 17:50:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I include myself?
In-Reply-To: <009c01c7e907$4a8324e0$df896ea0$@slater@mesanetworks.net>
References: <009c01c7e907$4a8324e0$df896ea0$@slater@mesanetworks.net>
Message-ID: <26137.144.189.5.201.1188262248.squirrel@www.crimson-dragon.com>


On Mon, August 27, 2007 17:06, Jon Slater wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I know this is a really dumb question, but until recently, I have always
> received a copy of any e-mail I sent to a list that I'm a member of.
>
> But now, I'm not.  I send e-mail to the board list, and I never receive a
> copy.   I know (by the fact I get responses) that everyone else is getting
> the message, but not me.  :-(
>
> I don't want to have to CC myself.  What don't I have checked?
>
> Thanks!


Go to your subscription options page and ensure that the option entitled
"Receive your own posts to the list?" is set to yes.

Also ensure that "Mail delivery?" is set to Enabled.

If there are topics defined and you are subscribed to them, you won't see
anything not matching the topic(s) unless you also set "Do you want to
receive messages that do not match any topic filter?" to Yes.

That should do it.

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From madduck at madduck.net  Tue Aug 28 15:23:17 2007
From: madduck at madduck.net (martin f krafft)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:23:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cloning subscriber list to another list
Message-ID: <20070828132317.GA27508@piper.oerlikon.madduck.net>

Dear list,

I am faced with the situation of forking a list of several hundred
subscribers in such a way that the result is two lists with exactly
the same subscriber set, but with different settings.

I am aware of list_members and sync_members, but that will not
migrate nomail and digest users properly.

I have also searched the web and the FAQ and found a bit of a hint
here and there, but no solution to the problem.

I have seen the mailman-subscribers.py scripts, and cannot get it
working (possibly my fault, still trying), but even if I did,
sync_members cannot import nomail subscribers (or user passwords),
so it would not really help to have a dump.

Is anyone aware of a method to port subscriber sets from one list to
another, without copying the settings?

Or should I just duplicate the list
(/var/lib/mailman/{archives,lists}) and then proceed to reconfigure
the new one? In that case, does it matter that the old one will be
on a 2.1.5 instance while the new one is 2.1.9?

Thanks for any comments.

-- 
martin;              (greetings from the heart of the sun.)
  \____ echo mailto: !#^."<*>"|tr "<*> mailto:" net at madduck
 
"i am a deeply superficial person."
                                                      -- andy warhol
 
spamtraps: madduck.bogus at madduck.net
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From ona at its.ac.id  Tue Aug 28 18:12:59 2007
From: ona at its.ac.id (Andi Mappesona)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 23:12:59 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need Help...
Message-ID: <46D4498B.2040306@its.ac.id>

I've tried to build a web interface for mailman with php. Until now i 
can do mass subcription, mass unsubsribe. I use mailman shell command to 
make it all. But I can't find a way to make a moderator page, I can't 
find a command that can retrieve the pending subscriber, to make a 
banlist and the others privacy policy like in the mailman cgi-bin web 
interface. Is  there a way to make it all ?

Thank's In Advance

Andi Mappesona
ona at its.ac.id

From jeffrice at finity.org  Tue Aug 28 18:33:43 2007
From: jeffrice at finity.org (Jeffrey Rice)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 10:33:43 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman, Lighttpd, & file permissions
Message-ID: <46D44E67.1070104@finity.org>


Hello,
This seems like it should be in a FAQ somewhere, but I can't find the 
answer there or in the archives.

I am setting up Mailman to run with my chrooted Lighttpd installation. 
Lighttpd runs as www-data:www-data, and is chrooted to /var/www. 
Mailman is running is list:list, as installed by the Debian package.  I 
am trying to work out the best way to get the file permissions sorted 
out.  These should be more-or-less the same as would be needed for 
Apache.  Is there a good reference for this?

A number of directories I have chowned to www-data: the cgi-bin, and so 
on.  But I am unclear on which directories mailman itself needs to have 
write access to, or the most elegant way to resolve this.

Does anyone simply run mailman as www-data?  When I tried adding 
www-data to the list group, it didn't solve the errors I was getting.

Jeff


From fbsdolot at cit.ru  Tue Aug 28 19:57:07 2007
From: fbsdolot at cit.ru (Geo)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 21:57:07 +0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bug in mailman2.1.9
Message-ID: <03d701c7e99c$d92a0c50$e70010ac@gkt>

Help...

When I try  http://ml.inters.ru/mailman/admin (and others)
I  see the text:
---------------------------------- 
Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9
We're sorry, we hit a bug!   etc.
------------------------------------ 
the traceback is below..

help!

------------------------------------ 

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 284, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 264, in main
    process_lists(lock)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 199, in process_lists
    mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__
    self.Load()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 644, in Load
    raise Errors.MMCorruptListDatabaseError, e
Mailman.Errors.MMCorruptListDatabaseError: [Errno 2] No such file or 
directory: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/euro/config.db.last'


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Tue Aug 28 21:15:25 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:15:25 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange? Bounce Processing
Message-ID: <200708281915.l7SJFPYu005225@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

I am trying to understand Mailman 2.1.9 bounce processing.  I run a
cron job each morning to capture all of the e-mail addresses for all
of my Mailman lists where the bounce score is greater than 0.

I have one list were there were bounces recorded for one e-mail address

     Jul 17  ==> score = 1.0
     Jul 24  ==> score = 2.0
     Jul 27  ==> score = 3.0
     Jul 31  ==> score = 4.0
     Aug 07  ==> score = 5.0

I have to assume that there were bounces on those days to this
particular address.  I cannot tell from the syslog on the smart mailer
to which Mailman sends all its outbound mail, as this address is on
a MS Exchange Server, and Exchange will accept all of the mail and
then reject some that it does not like.  Exchange does not do an SMTP
5xx-level reject during the SMTP portion of the inter-mailer dialog.

There was subsequent mail to this list

     Aug 14
     Aug 21

I do not know if there were bounces from these two postings, as the
bounce score for the address in question remained at 5.0.

This morning I received mail from Mailman that this particular address
had been unsubscribed from the list.  Here are the bounce settings for
this list:

     bounce_processing: Yes
     bounce_score_threshold: 5.0
     bounce_info_stale_after: 40
     bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings: 3
     bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval : 7

     bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner: Yes
     bounce_notify_owner_on_disable: Yes
     bounce_notify_owner_on_removal: Yes

I would have expected an unsubscribe message on Aug 08, the morning
after the bounce score reached 5.0.  I do not understand why the
unsubscribe occurred this morning.

Can someone explain what is happening?  Thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From morgan at hahaha.org  Wed Aug 29 02:08:21 2007
From: morgan at hahaha.org (Morgan Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 17:08:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipe for (mailman+postfix) <-> exchange?
Message-ID: <46D4B8F5.5020303@hahaha.org>

Hi. I work at a small company with an externally hosted Exhange server 
for an MTA. DNS is also externally managed. We'd like to set up mailing 
lists and I'd like to use Mailman to do it. We have a linux machine 
internally on which I've installed Mailman & Postfix. I can configure 
this machine to be aliased lists.domain.com and get our local name 
server to make it available as such. What else do I have to do to get 
mail from and to lists.domain.com via Exchange? Some list members would 
be within our company network, some would be external. We'd make the 
necessary ports on lists.domain.com accessible to the outside world.

I apologize if this is an inappropriate request. I'm hoping someone here 
has done this and would be willing to share their recipe. I can share 
mine once it's working.

Morgan

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Aug 29 02:49:07 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 17:49:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cloning subscriber list to another list
In-Reply-To: <20070828132317.GA27508@piper.oerlikon.madduck.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708281749070750b89e53d5@msapiro>

martin f krafft wrote:
>
>I am faced with the situation of forking a list of several hundred
>subscribers in such a way that the result is two lists with exactly
>the same subscriber set, but with different settings.

<snip>

>Or should I just duplicate the list
>(/var/lib/mailman/{archives,lists}) and then proceed to reconfigure
>the new one? In that case, does it matter that the old one will be
>on a 2.1.5 instance while the new one is 2.1.9?


Unless you want to write your own Python script to populate the new
list from the old, I think duplication is your easiest choice. Here's
an outline of what I suggest you can do.

1) Create the new list on the 2.1.9 installation. This step is not
necessary, but it simplifies archive considerations. Do not configure
anything on the new list until after step 2.

2) remove the lists/newlistname/config.pck and
lists/newlistname/config.pck.last files from the 2.1.9 server and then
copy the lists/oldlistname/config.pck from the 2.1.5 server to
lists/newlistname/config.pck on the 2.1.9 server.

3) Now configure the new list. It will have all the old list's
membership with member options and all the old list settings including
things like real_name and subject_prefix which you will probably want
to change (real_name will initially be 'oldlistname' except for case -
you will only be able to change it to 'newlistname' except for case).

4) You will probably need to run fix_url on the new list assuming the
host names are different.

The first time the list is accessed after copying the old config.pck,
Mailman will upgrade the config.pck automatically and you will then
have a 2.1.9 format config.pck and config.pck.last.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Aug 29 03:03:28 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 18:03:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bug in mailman2.1.9
In-Reply-To: <03d701c7e99c$d92a0c50$e70010ac@gkt>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708281803280781b89e5409@msapiro>

Geo wrote:
>
>When I try  http://ml.inters.ru/mailman/admin (and others)
>I  see the text:
>---------------------------------- 
>Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!   etc.
>------------------------------------ 
>the traceback is below..


Wrong traceback! The traceback below is from cron/gate_news (and
probably appears every 5 minutes). It is not the traceback produced
from trying to access the web interface.


>------------------------------------ 
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 284, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 264, in main
>    process_lists(lock)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 199, in process_lists
>    mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__
>    self.Load()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 644, in Load
>    raise Errors.MMCorruptListDatabaseError, e
>Mailman.Errors.MMCorruptListDatabaseError: [Errno 2] No such file or 
>directory: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/euro/config.db.last'


This error is a bit misleading. Mailman is attempting to load the list
data for a list named 'euro' it tries four files in the
/usr/local/mailman/lists/euro/ directory in the order 'config.pck',
'config.pck.last', 'config.db' and 'config.db.last' and only reports
the last error. In a normal 2.1.9 installation, only the first two
files will exist. In your case, these either don't exist or are
corrupt in some way.

The traceback we need to see for the web access error is one which
starts with File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Aug 29 03:20:54 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 18:20:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange? Bounce Processing
In-Reply-To: <200708281915.l7SJFPYu005225@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708281820540843b89e5461@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:

>I am trying to understand Mailman 2.1.9 bounce processing.  I run a
>cron job each morning to capture all of the e-mail addresses for all
>of my Mailman lists where the bounce score is greater than 0.
>
>I have one list were there were bounces recorded for one e-mail address
>
>     Jul 17  ==> score = 1.0
>     Jul 24  ==> score = 2.0
>     Jul 27  ==> score = 3.0
>     Jul 31  ==> score = 4.0
>     Aug 07  ==> score = 5.0
>
>I have to assume that there were bounces on those days to this
>particular address.


Yes.

Presumably your script gets this info from Mailman's 'bounce' log which
contains a lot more relevant information. Or if you get it directly
from the list, you might consider getting it from the bounce log
instead.


>I cannot tell from the syslog on the smart mailer
>to which Mailman sends all its outbound mail, as this address is on
>a MS Exchange Server, and Exchange will accept all of the mail and
>then reject some that it does not like.  Exchange does not do an SMTP
>5xx-level reject during the SMTP portion of the inter-mailer dialog.


But presumably it logs somewhere that it returned a DSN to the
listname-bounces address.


>There was subsequent mail to this list
>
>     Aug 14
>     Aug 21
>
>I do not know if there were bounces from these two postings, as the
>bounce score for the address in question remained at 5.0.


There were no bounces as there was no delivery attempt to this user.

The bounce_score_threshold for this list is 5.0, so the user in
question had delivery disabled by bounce on Aug 7. You should have
been notified of this on Aug 7 (bounce_notify_owner_on_disable is
Yes). Perhaps that notice got lost or overlooked or
bounce_notify_owner_on_disable was changed subsequent to the disabling
bounce.
	

>This morning I received mail from Mailman that this particular address
>had been unsubscribed from the list.


Because the user had been sent the 3 bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings
on Aug 7, Aug 14 and Aug 21, and had not logged on and re-enabled
delivery by Aug 28.


>Here are the bounce settings for
>this list:
>
>     bounce_processing: Yes
>     bounce_score_threshold: 5.0
>     bounce_info_stale_after: 40
>     bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings: 3
>     bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval : 7
>
>     bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner: Yes
>     bounce_notify_owner_on_disable: Yes
>     bounce_notify_owner_on_removal: Yes
>
>I would have expected an unsubscribe message on Aug 08, the morning
>after the bounce score reached 5.0.  I do not understand why the
>unsubscribe occurred this morning.


As I explain above, when the user reaches threshold, delivery is
disabled by bounce. The user is not removed for another
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings x
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval (3 x 7 = 21 in this case)
days.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Aug 29 03:44:22 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 18:44:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman, Lighttpd, & file permissions
In-Reply-To: <46D44E67.1070104@finity.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708281844220296b89e521e@msapiro>

Jeffrey Rice wrote:

>This seems like it should be in a FAQ somewhere, but I can't find the 
>answer there or in the archives.


See
<http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=site%3Amail.python.org++inurl%3Amailman++chroot>


>I am setting up Mailman to run with my chrooted Lighttpd installation. 


Mailman is not designed or intended to be run in this way. Mailman is
normally installed with all of its files and directories in Mailman's
group with appropriate group permissions and the cgi-bin wrappers run
as SETGID.


>Lighttpd runs as www-data:www-data, and is chrooted to /var/www. 
>Mailman is running is list:list, as installed by the Debian package.  I 
>am trying to work out the best way to get the file permissions sorted 
>out.  These should be more-or-less the same as would be needed for 
>Apache.  Is there a good reference for this?


See above.


>A number of directories I have chowned to www-data: the cgi-bin, and so 
>on.  But I am unclear on which directories mailman itself needs to have 
>write access to, or the most elegant way to resolve this.


A normal Mailman installation has the following directories: Mailman,
archives, bin, cgi-bin, cron, data, lists, locks, logs, mail,
messages, pythonlib, qfiles, scripts, spam, templates and tests.

The 'tests' directory is only used if you run unit tests. Other than
that, Mailman (the qrunners started by bin/mailmanctl), the incoming
MTA via the mail/mailman wrapper and the web server via the cgi-bin/*
wrappers need to be able to read everything and write to the archives,
data, lists, locks, logs, qfiles and spam directories.


>Does anyone simply run mailman as www-data?  When I tried adding 
>www-data to the list group, it didn't solve the errors I was getting.


You will probably get group mismatch errors. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>
for more info.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Aug 29 03:50:37 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 18:50:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need Help...
In-Reply-To: <46D4498B.2040306@its.ac.id>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708281850370875a9c5d830@msapiro>

Andi Mappesona wrote:

>I've tried to build a web interface for mailman with php. Until now i 
>can do mass subcription, mass unsubsribe. I use mailman shell command to 
>make it all. But I can't find a way to make a moderator page, I can't 
>find a command that can retrieve the pending subscriber, to make a 
>banlist and the others privacy policy like in the mailman cgi-bin web 
>interface. Is  there a way to make it all ?


There are at least two ways to do this. One is to create your own
Python/Mailman scripts to supplement add_members, remove_members, etc.
to do what you want and invoke those from your php scripts.

The other is to get and post to the web admindb interface directly from
your php scripts. This search
<http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=site%3Amail.python.org++inurl%3Amailman++wget>
may help you find more on this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Aug 29 04:38:33 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:38:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipe for (mailman+postfix) <-> exchange?
In-Reply-To: <46D4B8F5.5020303@hahaha.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708281938330921a9c5d85a@msapiro>

Morgan Fletcher wrote:

>Hi. I work at a small company with an externally hosted Exhange server 
>for an MTA. DNS is also externally managed. We'd like to set up mailing 
>lists and I'd like to use Mailman to do it. We have a linux machine 
>internally on which I've installed Mailman & Postfix. I can configure 
>this machine to be aliased lists.domain.com and get our local name 
>server to make it available as such. What else do I have to do to get 
>mail from and to lists.domain.com via Exchange? Some list members would 
>be within our company network, some would be external. We'd make the 
>necessary ports on lists.domain.com accessible to the outside world.


Can the Linux machine communicate directly with the internet at large?

If not, most of this is Exchange configuration. I.e. Exchange needs to
route incoming mail to the lists.domain.com domain to the Linux
machine. This may require an MX record to first route mail to
lists.domain.com to the Exchange server, and something to tell
exchange where to send this mail.

Also, Postfix will need to be configured to route all mail to the
Exchange server and Exchange configured to relay mail from the Linux
machine.

OTOH, if the Linux machine can communicate with the internet, it seems
you can bypass Exchange alltogether and let the Linux machine handle
its own incoming and outgoing mail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Aug 29 04:21:41 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 21:21:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipe for (mailman+postfix) <-> exchange?
In-Reply-To: <46D4B8F5.5020303@hahaha.org>
References: <46D4B8F5.5020303@hahaha.org>
Message-ID: <p06240802c2fa8818be0e@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/28/07, Morgan Fletcher wrote:

>                                       What else do I have to do to get
>  mail from and to lists.domain.com via Exchange? Some list members would
>  be within our company network, some would be external. We'd make the
>  necessary ports on lists.domain.com accessible to the outside world.

This sounds to me like an Exchange problem.  I'm not sure we can help 
you there.

If you wanted to run Mailman with postfix on a publicly accessible 
system, that's a very well known and supported configuration -- we do 
that for all the mailing lists hosted here on python.org, including 
this one.

>  I apologize if this is an inappropriate request. I'm hoping someone here
>  has done this and would be willing to share their recipe. I can share
>  mine once it's working.

Please let us know what kind of success you have.  We can't really 
officially support such configurations, but it doesn't hurt us to 
have more information we can provide to people when they ask about 
them.  At the very least, it can be handy for us to know where to 
point people when this question comes up again.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From diane at wittygal.com  Wed Aug 29 09:52:59 2007
From: diane at wittygal.com (wittygal)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 00:52:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for each list?
Message-ID: <007f01c7ea11$9ed21460$dc763d20$@com>

Hi,
I have my account hosted on bluehost. I have 5 new email lists that have
been transferred to me from other mailman lists on a closing isp.  

The problem is there are delays from when a message is receive until it is
sent out.  Blue host support tells me that mailman only supports up to 150
subscribers per list.  Is this true?

What other reason could there be for such a problem.  They tell me that
phplist doesn't have the problems mailman does.

Is there some response to this I could refer them to.


From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Wed Aug 29 13:22:50 2007
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 06:22:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for each
 list?
In-Reply-To: <007f01c7ea11$9ed21460$dc763d20$@com>
Message-ID: <C2FAC13A.474BC%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 8/29/07 2:52 AM, wittygal at diane at wittygal.com wrote:

> Hi,
> I have my account hosted on bluehost. I have 5 new email lists that have
> been transferred to me from other mailman lists on a closing isp.
> 
> The problem is there are delays from when a message is receive until it is
> sent out.  Blue host support tells me that mailman only supports up to 150
> subscribers per list.  Is this true?

No. There are people running mailman with thousands of people on a list. I
think there is some information on this in FAQ.

> What other reason could there be for such a problem.  They tell me that
> phplist doesn't have the problems mailman does.

Other reasons? Misconfiguration by them; resource limits they've applied.
Who knows other than them.

-- 
Larry Stone
lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Aug 29 16:23:50 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 07:23:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for eachlist?
In-Reply-To: <C2FAC13A.474BC%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708290723500218fafacb6c@msapiro>

Larry Stone wrote:

>On 8/29/07 2:52 AM, wittygal at diane at wittygal.com wrote:
>
>> Blue host support tells me that mailman only supports up to 150
>> subscribers per list.  Is this true?
>
>No. There are people running mailman with thousands of people on a list. I
>think there is some information on this in FAQ.


<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.015.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Aug 29 16:34:50 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:34:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for each
 list?
In-Reply-To: <007f01c7ea11$9ed21460$dc763d20$@com>
References: <007f01c7ea11$9ed21460$dc763d20$@com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c2fb31f369c2@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/29/07, wittygal wrote:

>  The problem is there are delays from when a message is receive until it is
>  sent out.  Blue host support tells me that mailman only supports up to 150
>  subscribers per list.  Is this true?

As far as the Mailman code is concerned, there is no hard limit to 
the number of subscribers you can have.  There are performance issues 
that you are more likely to run into as you try to scale into the 
hundreds of thousands of subscribers, but there is no hard limit 
imposed by our code.

To get more of an idea of what is possible with Mailman, see FAQ 1.15 
at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.015.htp>.

>  What other reason could there be for such a problem.

I strongly suspect that they are doing rate-limiting on their mail 
servers, which is causing problems for Mailman.  FAQ 4.51 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.051.htp> 
discusses the issue of Mailman and rate-limiting, although it's not 
directly related to the problem you're having.

>                                                        They tell me that
>  phplist doesn't have the problems mailman does.

That's a total load of bull.  Some of the largest mailing lists and 
mailing list servers in the world are running Mailman.  I've been a 
professional Unix system administrator for almost twenty years, and 
I've been specializing in Internet e-mail administration for about 
fifteen years, including two years as the Sr. Internet Mail 
Administrator for America Online.  Over the years, I've worked with 
many different mailing list managers.  Until today, I had never heard 
of this "phplist" program.

I guarantee you that whatever this "phplist" program is, they don't 
have the number of installations we do, or the scale.

>  Is there some response to this I could refer them to.

Well, you could first have them read each and every entry in the 
Mailman FAQ Wizard at <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py>, and 
then have them tell you why they are not properly supporting the 
product that they have installed and made available to you.

Alternatively, you could find another provider that is more 
responsive to your requirements.  See FAQ 1.17 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.017.htp> 
for links to lists of alternative providers you may want to take a 
look at.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From madduck at madduck.net  Wed Aug 29 17:26:44 2007
From: madduck at madduck.net (martin f krafft)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:26:44 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cloning subscriber list to another list
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200708281749070750b89e53d5@msapiro>
References: <20070828132317.GA27508@piper.oerlikon.madduck.net>
	<PC1760200708281749070750b89e53d5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20070829152644.GA30826@piper.oerlikon.madduck.net>

also sprach Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> [2007.08.29.0249 +0200]:
> Unless you want to write your own Python script to populate the new
> list from the old, I think duplication is your easiest choice. Here's
> an outline of what I suggest you can do.

This sounds like sound advice. Thanks, Mark.

-- 
martin;              (greetings from the heart of the sun.)
  \____ echo mailto: !#^."<*>"|tr "<*> mailto:" net at madduck
 
"my father, a good man, told me:
'never lose your ignorance; you cannot replace it.'"
                                               -- erich maria remarque
 
spamtraps: madduck.bogus at madduck.net
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From msapiro at value.net  Wed Aug 29 17:28:41 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 08:28:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for eachlist?
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c2fb31f369c2@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <PC17602007082908284102659e3b5992@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>On 8/29/07, wittygal wrote:
>
>>                                                        They tell me that
>>  phplist doesn't have the problems mailman does.
>
>That's a total load of bull.


Agreed.

First, phplist only does one-way (announcement) lists so if you want a
discussion list, phplist is not an option.

Second, if phplist on bluehost is able to deliver mail to many
recipients faster than Mailman on bluehost, this is a result of
conscious or unconscious configuration decisions made by bluehost in
the installation of Mailman, phplist and their MTAs. It is not because
of any inherent superiority of phplist.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From diane at wittygal.com  Wed Aug 29 18:23:45 2007
From: diane at wittygal.com (wittygal)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:23:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for eachlist?
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007082908284102659e3b5992@msapiro>
References: <p06240800c2fb31f369c2@[192.168.1.199]>
	<PC17602007082908284102659e3b5992@msapiro>
Message-ID: <003e01c7ea58$f977fb40$ec67f1c0$@com>

Well, it seemed like a load of bull. Then they suggested I find a special
email list provider.  Is there such a thing?

And how would I find it. You see I am doing this as a charity thing for
about 5 online email groups for debtorsanonymous.org

I thought this should be a no sweat thing since I supposedly can have
unlimited email lists under my premium subscription.

Thanks for the info. I am going to try to get back with them with regard to
this and point them to the url in question for the faqs. Does anyone have a
problem with me copying select portions of your emails on this subject?

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 8:29 AM
To: Brad Knowles; wittygal; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for
eachlist?

Brad Knowles wrote:

>On 8/29/07, wittygal wrote:
>
>>                                                        They tell me that
>>  phplist doesn't have the problems mailman does.
>
>That's a total load of bull.


Agreed.

First, phplist only does one-way (announcement) lists so if you want a
discussion list, phplist is not an option.

Second, if phplist on bluehost is able to deliver mail to many
recipients faster than Mailman on bluehost, this is a result of
conscious or unconscious configuration decisions made by bluehost in
the installation of Mailman, phplist and their MTAs. It is not because
of any inherent superiority of phplist.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jeffrice at finity.org  Wed Aug 29 18:41:08 2007
From: jeffrice at finity.org (Jeffrey Rice)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 10:41:08 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman, Lighttpd, & file permissions
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200708281844220296b89e521e@msapiro>
	(sfid-20070828_194444_532881_1A3518E1)
References: <PC1760200708281844220296b89e521e@msapiro>
	(sfid-20070828_194444_532881_1A3518E1)
Message-ID: <46D5A1A4.1040404@finity.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Jeffrey Rice wrote:
>> I am setting up Mailman to run with my chrooted Lighttpd installation. 
> 
> 
> Mailman is not designed or intended to be run in this way. Mailman is
> normally installed with all of its files and directories in Mailman's
> group with appropriate group permissions and the cgi-bin wrappers run
> as SETGID.

Thank you for the reply.  I have actually made some good progress on 
this.  The biggest thing I did that helped was switch from the Debian 
package, which scatters files across the system, to compiling from 
source and pointing it (./configure --prefix) to a directory inside the 
jail.  This worked much better, since everything was in the some tree, 
and I only had a few permissions to sort out.

So far, it appears to work well.  I have one error with the postalias 
call, but since I'm using postfix-to-mailman.py I don't think I need it 
and the list is created despite that crash.

Once I have done more testing, I will try to write this up (maybe for 
the Wiki?) if it seems it would be helpful.


Jeff

From brian at emwd.com  Wed Aug 29 19:02:22 2007
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 13:02:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for eachlist?
In-Reply-To: <003e01c7ea58$f977fb40$ec67f1c0$@com>
References: <p06240800c2fb31f369c2@[192.168.1.199]>	<PC17602007082908284102659e3b5992@msapiro>
	<003e01c7ea58$f977fb40$ec67f1c0$@com>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAPy4MrPRNNZGh9IPjC9bIqvCgAAAEAAAAGRZj6ixsTVPtrDEWwCnircBAAAAAA==@emwd.com>

It is possible that Bluehost is limiting the amount of messages that are
sent out from your account per hour. This is called smtp throttling and it
is a common practice amount hosting companies. Another issue is that your
mailing lists could simply be on a very busy server that is not able to keep
up with mail delivery. What is troubling is the answer you received from
Bluehost which reveals their ignorance about mailman.

" Then they suggested I find a special
email list provider.  Is there such a thing?"

Yes there is. We offer a special service for those who run mailman mailing
lists. You can read more about our service at
http://www.emwd.com/mailman.html. 

Kind regards,
Brian Carpenter
--------------------------------------
EMWD -  Executive Officer
 

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+brian=emwd.com at python.org] On Behalf Of
wittygal
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 12:24 PM
To: 'Mark Sapiro'
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for
eachlist?

Well, it seemed like a load of bull. Then they suggested I find a special
email list provider.  Is there such a thing?

And how would I find it. You see I am doing this as a charity thing for
about 5 online email groups for debtorsanonymous.org

I thought this should be a no sweat thing since I supposedly can have
unlimited email lists under my premium subscription.

Thanks for the info. I am going to try to get back with them with regard to
this and point them to the url in question for the faqs. Does anyone have a
problem with me copying select portions of your emails on this subject?

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 8:29 AM
To: Brad Knowles; wittygal; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for
eachlist?

Brad Knowles wrote:

>On 8/29/07, wittygal wrote:
>
>>                                                        They tell me that
>>  phplist doesn't have the problems mailman does.
>
>That's a total load of bull.


Agreed.

First, phplist only does one-way (announcement) lists so if you want a
discussion list, phplist is not an option.

Second, if phplist on bluehost is able to deliver mail to many
recipients faster than Mailman on bluehost, this is a result of
conscious or unconscious configuration decisions made by bluehost in
the installation of Mailman, phplist and their MTAs. It is not because
of any inherent superiority of phplist.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brian%40emwd.com

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From ivanlan at pauahtun.org  Wed Aug 29 20:02:48 2007
From: ivanlan at pauahtun.org (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 12:02:48 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Size threshold
Message-ID: <46D5B4C8.4070507@pauahtun.org>

Hi All--
For version 2.1.8, I've got "Should a digest be dispatched daily when 
the size threshold isn't reached?" set to "Yes", but no digests have 
gone out for two days.  The size is set to 128k, and the digest.mbox is 
only 43k.  Individual emails are being distributed and being appended to 
the digest.mbox.  Is there a known bug here?  Do I need to worry?

Metta,
Ivan
-- 
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.pauahtun.org/
http://www.python.org/workshops/1998-11/proceedings/papers/laningham/laningham.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Aug 29 20:19:10 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 13:19:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for eachlist?
In-Reply-To: <003e01c7ea58$f977fb40$ec67f1c0$@com>
References: <p06240800c2fb31f369c2@[192.168.1.199]>
	<PC17602007082908284102659e3b5992@msapiro>
	<003e01c7ea58$f977fb40$ec67f1c0$@com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c2fb652533c7@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/29/07, wittygal wrote:

>  Well, it seemed like a load of bull. Then they suggested I find a special
>  email list provider.  Is there such a thing?

Sure.  Some Mailman-specific hosting groups are listed in FAQ 1.17 at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.017.htp>, 
and there are other groups there that do more general hosting but 
which also provide Mailman hosting as part of their package of 
services.

>  And how would I find it. You see I am doing this as a charity thing for
>  about 5 online email groups for debtorsanonymous.org

FAQ 1.17 has a partial list of Mailman-specific hosting sites, but 
I'm sure there are other sites that have similar lists of providers.

>  I thought this should be a no sweat thing since I supposedly can have
>  unlimited email lists under my premium subscription.

Funny thing about that word "unlimited".  It doesn't actually mean 
"unlimited" anymore.  Now it means:

	We don't advertise any limits because we want to get your business
	at any cost, but as soon as you exceed the low limits we secretly
	place on you, we'll kick your sorry butt out the door as quickly
	as we possibly can.

It's kind of like that secret no-fly list that no one can ever tell 
you whether or not you're on the list or how you got on it or how you 
can get off it, but they won't let you fly if your name is there.

>  Thanks for the info. I am going to try to get back with them with regard to
>  this and point them to the url in question for the faqs. Does anyone have a
>  problem with me copying select portions of your emails on this subject?

Feel free to quote any of my messages, and if they have any further 
questions I'll be more than happy to whop them upside the head with a 
clue-by-four.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From bluria at gmail.com  Wed Aug 29 20:30:29 2007
From: bluria at gmail.com (Brian Luria)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 14:30:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for eachlist?
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c2fb652533c7@192.168.1.199>
References: <p06240800c2fb31f369c2@192.168.1.199>
	<PC17602007082908284102659e3b5992@msapiro>
	<003e01c7ea58$f977fb40$ec67f1c0$@com>
	<p06240801c2fb652533c7@192.168.1.199>
Message-ID: <fed90af00708291130l5969f804m8983b01bfe4ca2ef@mail.gmail.com>

I am actually using bluehost as well (recently started)
Haven't reached a limit for now - I was having major delays with messages
being sent - found out it was b/c I was sharing a server with mulitple other
users so we would all be in 'que' waiting for a msg to be sent.

So, a thought I had - is it a 'crazy' idea to set up my own webserver and
install mailman on it? Or is that a bit too much.

Not sure if anyone out there has done that.


On 8/29/07, Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:
>
> On 8/29/07, wittygal wrote:
>
> >  Well, it seemed like a load of bull. Then they suggested I find a
> special
> >  email list provider.  Is there such a thing?
>
> Sure.  Some Mailman-specific hosting groups are listed in FAQ 1.17 at
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.017.htp>,
> and there are other groups there that do more general hosting but
> which also provide Mailman hosting as part of their package of
> services.
>
> >  And how would I find it. You see I am doing this as a charity thing for
> >  about 5 online email groups for debtorsanonymous.org
>
> FAQ 1.17 has a partial list of Mailman-specific hosting sites, but
> I'm sure there are other sites that have similar lists of providers.
>
> >  I thought this should be a no sweat thing since I supposedly can have
> >  unlimited email lists under my premium subscription.
>
> Funny thing about that word "unlimited".  It doesn't actually mean
> "unlimited" anymore.  Now it means:
>
>        We don't advertise any limits because we want to get your business
>        at any cost, but as soon as you exceed the low limits we secretly
>        place on you, we'll kick your sorry butt out the door as quickly
>        as we possibly can.
>
> It's kind of like that secret no-fly list that no one can ever tell
> you whether or not you're on the list or how you got on it or how you
> can get off it, but they won't let you fly if your name is there.
>
> >  Thanks for the info. I am going to try to get back with them with
> regard to
> >  this and point them to the url in question for the faqs. Does anyone
> have a
> >  problem with me copying select portions of your emails on this subject?
>
> Feel free to quote any of my messages, and if they have any further
> questions I'll be more than happy to whop them upside the head with a
> clue-by-four.
>
> --
> Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/bluria%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>



-- 
Brian J. Luria DVM, DACVIM
Florida Veterinary Specialists
3000 Busch Lake Blvd
Tampa, FL 33614
Phone: (813) 933-8944
Fax: (813) 936-9595
http://www.fvs.com

From Brandon at WebsterRidge.com  Wed Aug 29 20:40:00 2007
From: Brandon at WebsterRidge.com (Brandon Sussman)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 14:40:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for eachlist?
In-Reply-To: <003e01c7ea58$f977fb40$ec67f1c0$@com>
References: <p06240800c2fb31f369c2@[192.168.1.199]>	<PC17602007082908284102659e3b5992@msapiro>
	<003e01c7ea58$f977fb40$ec67f1c0$@com>
Message-ID: <46D5BD80.3000105@WebsterRidge.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

wittygal wrote:
> Well, it seemed like a load of bull. Then they suggested I find a special
> email list provider.  Is there such a thing?
>
> And how would I find it. You see I am doing this as a charity thing for
> about 5 online email groups for debtorsanonymous.org
>

DreamHost gives away their best account to 501(c)(3) groups and supports
MailMan just fine.

- -- Brandon
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iQEVAwUBRtW9gNN2DJl/zagkAQKofAf9FLn64gzNX2fZfBEHHXEnm6VBwyYQAY5n
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From adamsca at gmail.com  Wed Aug 29 21:10:25 2007
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 12:10:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] more help with mailman configure and GID
Message-ID: <27572d930708291210v417a97dbqb7a2fe370e83ed3c@mail.gmail.com>

Okay, another migration, another GID problem. I configured mailman to
run as mail GID=mailman (which is 502) and cgi-gid = apache (which is
48). The configuration and installation went fine and check_perms
showed no problems.

Setting up lists works okay. However, when I try to send a mesage to
the list, I get this:

 test7 at myserver.com on 8/29/2007 11:36 AM
            Failed (Command died with status 8:
"/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post test7". Command output: Failure
to    find group name for GID 1004.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper
to be    executed as group "mailman", but the system's mail server
executed the    wrapper as GID 1004 for which the name could not be
found.  Try adding GID    1004 to your system as "mailman", or tweak
your mail server to run the    wrapper as group "mailman".)

Why is it looking at mailman GID=1004 when it is 502? Mailman UID is
1004, but not GID.  I tried reconfiguring it with mail GID = nobody,
which I have done before, but still get this message.

Help is most welcome.

-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Wed Aug 29 21:44:47 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 12:44:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for eachlist?
In-Reply-To: <fed90af00708291130l5969f804m8983b01bfe4ca2ef@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <p06240800c2fb31f369c2@192.168.1.199>
	<PC17602007082908284102659e3b5992@msapiro>
	<003e01c7ea58$f977fb40$ec67f1c0$@com>
	<p06240801c2fb652533c7@192.168.1.199>
	<fed90af00708291130l5969f804m8983b01bfe4ca2ef@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200708291944.l7TJhTJX010450@unreal.eroded.org>

Brian Luria wrote:
>I am actually using bluehost as well (recently started)
>Haven't reached a limit for now - I was having major delays with messages
>being sent - found out it was b/c I was sharing a server with mulitple other
>users so we would all be in 'que' waiting for a msg to be sent.
>
>So, a thought I had - is it a 'crazy' idea to set up my own webserver and
>install mailman on it? Or is that a bit too much.
>
>Not sure if anyone out there has done that.
>
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Why is that crazy?

Lots of us have done just that. I run my lists on a server owned by a 
friend and have pretty much free reign to do whatever I want.

If you can justify the costs of doing so, it is a good solution. For 
people like me who do this both as a hobby and for a non-profit 
organization, the trick is finding a place to host that server that 
won't cost an arm and a leg.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Aug 29 22:57:57 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:57:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman, Lighttpd, & file permissions
In-Reply-To: <46D5A1A4.1040404@finity.org>
References: <PC1760200708281844220296b89e521e@msapiro>
	(sfid-20070828_194444_532881_1A3518E1) <46D5A1A4.1040404@finity.org>
Message-ID: <p06240803c2fb8e36d3c6@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/29/07, Jeffrey Rice wrote:

>  Once I have done more testing, I will try to write this up (maybe for
>  the Wiki?) if it seems it would be helpful.

That would make a good addition to go along side FAQ 1.14 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.014.htp>.

Thanks!

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Wed Aug 29 23:09:08 2007
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:09:08 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for eachlist?
In-Reply-To: <200708291944.l7TJhTJX010450@unreal.eroded.org>
References: <p06240800c2fb31f369c2@192.168.1.199>
	<PC17602007082908284102659e3b5992@msapiro>
	<003e01c7ea58$f977fb40$ec67f1c0$@com>
	<p06240801c2fb652533c7@192.168.1.199>
	<fed90af00708291130l5969f804m8983b01bfe4ca2ef@mail.gmail.com>
	<200708291944.l7TJhTJX010450@unreal.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.58.0708291603210.14662@albion.stonejongleux.com>

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007, Dragon wrote:

> Lots of us have done just that. I run my lists on a server owned by a
> friend and have pretty much free reign to do whatever I want.

> If you can justify the costs of doing so, it is a good solution. For
> people like me who do this both as a hobby and for a non-profit
> organization, the trick is finding a place to host that server that
> won't cost an arm and a leg.

Other than my time of installing it and configuring it, I have no costs. I
run it on my iMac that sits at home. My DSL provider has no problems with
servers. Volume is low enough that my 384Kbps upstream is adequate. Until
a few months ago, that iMac was also my main desktop machine. While it's
now a dedicated server, there's nothing about Mailman and whatever MTA you
use that requires them to be on a dedicated server - they'll be quite
happy to chug along in the background.

-- Larry Stone
   lstone19 at stonejongleux.com

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Aug 29 23:04:28 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:04:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Size threshold
In-Reply-To: <46D5B4C8.4070507@pauahtun.org>
References: <46D5B4C8.4070507@pauahtun.org>
Message-ID: <p06240805c2fb8f932590@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/29/07, Ivan Van Laningham wrote:

>  For version 2.1.8, I've got "Should a digest be dispatched daily when
>  the size threshold isn't reached?" set to "Yes", but no digests have
>  gone out for two days.  The size is set to 128k, and the digest.mbox is
>  only 43k.  Individual emails are being distributed and being appended to
>  the digest.mbox.  Is there a known bug here?  Do I need to worry?

Unless I'm mistaken, if the Mailman cron jobs are properly running, 
there should be a nightly digest sent out, if there is anything at 
all in the digest.mbox file to be sent, regardless of whether or not 
you have reached the threshold.

Check your cron jobs and the log files to see if there are any errors 
preventing digests from being sent.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Aug 29 23:07:06 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:07:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for eachlist?
In-Reply-To: <fed90af00708291130l5969f804m8983b01bfe4ca2ef@mail.gmail.com>
References: <p06240800c2fb31f369c2@192.168.1.199>	
	<PC17602007082908284102659e3b5992@msapiro>	
	<003e01c7ea58$f977fb40$ec67f1c0$@com>	
	<p06240801c2fb652533c7@192.168.1.199>
	<fed90af00708291130l5969f804m8983b01bfe4ca2ef@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240806c2fb8fe13809@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/29/07, Brian Luria wrote:

>  So, a thought I had - is it a 'crazy' idea to set up my own webserver
>  and install mailman on it? Or is that a bit too much.

That is not a crazy idea.  In fact, if you did that, you would be 
installing and using Mailman in the manner for which it was actually 
originally designed.

>  Not sure if anyone out there has done that.

In effect, that's what we are doing for python.org and all the other 
mailing lists hosted here, including this one.  The folks at 
XS4ALL.nl provide the hardware and hands-on operations support, and a 
team of volunteers provides the application level installation, 
configuration, monitoring, and management.  You'd just be operating 
on a somewhat smaller scale than we do.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From sgruver at cis.ctc.edu  Wed Aug 29 23:22:51 2007
From: sgruver at cis.ctc.edu (Gruver, Sandi)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 14:22:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] simple newbie question re: Defaults.py
Message-ID: <A28996BB367AA74E89600FC38E9BBDB701D7F963@athens.CISI.ctc.edu>

Installed Mailman from rpm file.
I do not see guidelines on where/how to configure mm_cfg.py.
Is it to simply copy the lines needed from the Defaults.py file?

Red Hat EL4
Mailman 2.1.5
Sendmail 8.13
Python 2.3.4

Thank you




From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Wed Aug 29 23:43:20 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 14:43:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for eachlist?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSX.4.58.0708291603210.14662@albion.stonejongleux.com
 >
References: <p06240800c2fb31f369c2@192.168.1.199>
	<PC17602007082908284102659e3b5992@msapiro>
	<003e01c7ea58$f977fb40$ec67f1c0$@com>
	<p06240801c2fb652533c7@192.168.1.199>
	<fed90af00708291130l5969f804m8983b01bfe4ca2ef@mail.gmail.com>
	<200708291944.l7TJhTJX010450@unreal.eroded.org>
	<Pine.OSX.4.58.0708291603210.14662@albion.stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <200708292142.l7TLg0eF011785@unreal.eroded.org>

Larry Stone sent the message below at 14:09 8/29/2007:
>On Wed, 29 Aug 2007, Dragon wrote:
>
> > Lots of us have done just that. I run my lists on a server owned by a
> > friend and have pretty much free reign to do whatever I want.
>
> > If you can justify the costs of doing so, it is a good solution. For
> > people like me who do this both as a hobby and for a non-profit
> > organization, the trick is finding a place to host that server that
> > won't cost an arm and a leg.
>
>Other than my time of installing it and configuring it, I have no costs. I
>run it on my iMac that sits at home. My DSL provider has no problems with
>servers. Volume is low enough that my 384Kbps upstream is adequate. Until
>a few months ago, that iMac was also my main desktop machine. While it's
>now a dedicated server, there's nothing about Mailman and whatever MTA you
>use that requires them to be on a dedicated server - they'll be quite
>happy to chug along in the background.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

The problem is that not everyone has an ISP that is willing to allow 
a user to run an SMTP server or web server on a home machine.

The server my friend owns that hosts my stuff is on a Cox business 
account with a static IP. Cox is one of many ISPs that won't allow 
their subscribers to run such a server on a standard home broadband 
connection, they will only allow such traffic on a business account.

As with everything, your mileage will vary.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Wed Aug 29 23:54:15 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 14:54:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] simple newbie question re: Defaults.py
In-Reply-To: <A28996BB367AA74E89600FC38E9BBDB701D7F963@athens.CISI.ctc.e
 du>
References: <A28996BB367AA74E89600FC38E9BBDB701D7F963@athens.CISI.ctc.edu>
Message-ID: <200708292153.l7TLquO8011874@unreal.eroded.org>

Gruver, Sandi sent the message below at 14:22 8/29/2007:
>Installed Mailman from rpm file.
>I do not see guidelines on where/how to configure mm_cfg.py.
>Is it to simply copy the lines needed from the Defaults.py file?
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

There is nothing difficult about this. Most settings made in 
Defaults.py can be overridden in mm_cfg.py, those that cannot are 
appropriately labelled in the comments in Defaults.py.

To override a setting, copy the relevant line from Defaults.py and 
put it in mm_cfg.py, edit the setting as desired and save the file. 
When done, restart mailman.

Please be aware that some settings only apply at list creation and 
any lists created prior to the change in mm_cfg.py will not reflect 
those updates. In those cases you will either have to change the 
setting through the administrative interface or via a withlist script.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Thu Aug 30 00:27:16 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:27:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] simple newbie question re: Defaults.py
In-Reply-To: <fed90af00708291513w72276d4xcbf24b6b4c8cbf2a@mail.gmail.com
 >
References: <A28996BB367AA74E89600FC38E9BBDB701D7F963@athens.CISI.ctc.edu>
	<200708292153.l7TLquO8011874@unreal.eroded.org>
	<fed90af00708291513w72276d4xcbf24b6b4c8cbf2a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200708292226.l7TMPu94012184@unreal.eroded.org>

Brian Luria sent the message below at 15:13 8/29/2007:
>I dont suppose you know of a newbie sort of pinned note or FAQ of 
>setting up a mailman install from scratch, including the other items 
>needed (sendmail, etc).
>
>I'm a relatively advanced user, but, haven't set up a webserver and 
>a step by step would be awesome. Plus since i really dont 
>NEEEEEEEEED to set it up from scratch, would rather not spend hours on it.
>
>Thanks in advance.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

You mean something like this?

http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/index.html

I found a previous version of that document to be very clear and 
helpful when I first setup Mailman on my server a couple years ago.

BTW, that is the first result returned if you Google on "mailman 
installation manual".

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Aug 30 00:31:19 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:31:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] simple newbie question re: Defaults.py
In-Reply-To: <A28996BB367AA74E89600FC38E9BBDB701D7F963@athens.CISI.ctc.edu>
References: <A28996BB367AA74E89600FC38E9BBDB701D7F963@athens.CISI.ctc.edu>
Message-ID: <p06240808c2fba3dde724@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/29/07, Gruver, Sandi wrote:

>  I do not see guidelines on where/how to configure mm_cfg.py.
>  Is it to simply copy the lines needed from the Defaults.py file?

For anything you want that is different from what is defined in 
Defaults.py, then yes -- copy the affected lines to mm_cfg.py and 
then make your modifications there.

When you upgrade, the Defaults.py file should also be updated, but 
the mm_cfg.py file should remain untouched.  At least, that's the way 
the upgrade should happen, if the binary packagers do their job 
correctly.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From adamsca at gmail.com  Thu Aug 30 01:45:05 2007
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:45:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] more help with mailman configure and GID
In-Reply-To: <27572d930708291210v417a97dbqb7a2fe370e83ed3c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <27572d930708291210v417a97dbqb7a2fe370e83ed3c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <27572d930708291645i43ff1885n2d7a597605e2dab6@mail.gmail.com>

I honestly like it when my questions are skimmed over. It makes me
realize that I have way more resources to fix things than I initially
think.

In this case, it was a "simple" case of the mailman /etc/passwd user
entry showing a GID that didn't match the /etc/group mailman entry. I
did try changing the /etc/group mailman entry to the actual GID that
it was looking for, but the mailman installation broke. Eventually, I
noticed that there was a mismatch.

So, all should be okay. Thanks for ignoring me.

On 8/29/07, Christopher Adams <adamsca at gmail.com> wrote:
> Okay, another migration, another GID problem. I configured mailman to
> run as mail GID=mailman (which is 502) and cgi-gid = apache (which is
> 48). The configuration and installation went fine and check_perms
> showed no problems.
>
> Setting up lists works okay. However, when I try to send a mesage to
> the list, I get this:
>
>  test7 at myserver.com on 8/29/2007 11:36 AM
>             Failed (Command died with status 8:
> "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post test7". Command output: Failure
> to    find group name for GID 1004.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper
> to be    executed as group "mailman", but the system's mail server
> executed the    wrapper as GID 1004 for which the name could not be
> found.  Try adding GID    1004 to your system as "mailman", or tweak
> your mail server to run the    wrapper as group "mailman".)
>
> Why is it looking at mailman GID=1004 when it is 502? Mailman UID is
> 1004, but not GID.  I tried reconfiguring it with mail GID = nobody,
> which I have done before, but still get this message.
>
> Help is most welcome.
>
> --
> Christopher Adams
> adamsca at gmail.com
>


-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From yan at jointtech.com  Thu Aug 30 02:03:11 2007
From: yan at jointtech.com (Yan Herndon)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:03:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for eachlist?
In-Reply-To: <200708292142.l7TLg0eF011785@unreal.eroded.org>
References: <p06240800c2fb31f369c2@192.168.1.199><PC17602007082908284102659e3b5992@msapiro><003e01c7ea58$f977fb40$ec67f1c0$@com><p06240801c2fb652533c7@192.168.1.199><fed90af00708291130l5969f804m8983b01bfe4ca2ef@mail.gmail.com><200708291944.l7TJhTJX010450@unreal.eroded.org><Pine.OSX.4.58.0708291603210.14662@albion.stonejongleux.com>
	<200708292142.l7TLg0eF011785@unreal.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <5693401817AB114984AB28E0F435B69C06B09D@jtlserver1.JointTechnologiesLtd.lan>

No-ip.com will relay mail on an alt port.  I;ve been running a MS SBS
from my home on Cox home cable for about 2 years.  Full exchange and
remote access using no-ip.com to fix the DHCP issue and alt port SMTP.
Cant beat the price/speed of a home account ;-) I think I pay about 20 a
year for no-ip  I cant remember.

Thanks,
Yan Herndon
Director of Technology
Joint Technologies LTD
949-361-1158


-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+yan=jointtech.com at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+yan=jointtech.com at python.org] On Behalf Of
Dragon
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 2:43 PM
To: mailman mailing list
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for
eachlist?

Larry Stone sent the message below at 14:09 8/29/2007:
>On Wed, 29 Aug 2007, Dragon wrote:
>
> > Lots of us have done just that. I run my lists on a server owned by
a
> > friend and have pretty much free reign to do whatever I want.
>
> > If you can justify the costs of doing so, it is a good solution. For
> > people like me who do this both as a hobby and for a non-profit
> > organization, the trick is finding a place to host that server that
> > won't cost an arm and a leg.
>
>Other than my time of installing it and configuring it, I have no
costs. I
>run it on my iMac that sits at home. My DSL provider has no problems
with
>servers. Volume is low enough that my 384Kbps upstream is adequate.
Until
>a few months ago, that iMac was also my main desktop machine. While
it's
>now a dedicated server, there's nothing about Mailman and whatever MTA
you
>use that requires them to be on a dedicated server - they'll be quite
>happy to chug along in the background.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

The problem is that not everyone has an ISP that is willing to allow 
a user to run an SMTP server or web server on a home machine.

The server my friend owns that hosts my stuff is on a Cox business 
account with a static IP. Cox is one of many ISPs that won't allow 
their subscribers to run such a server on a standard home broadband 
connection, they will only allow such traffic on a business account.

As with everything, your mileage will vary.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/yan%40jointtech.com

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug 30 02:38:40 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:38:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] more help with mailman configure and GID
In-Reply-To: <27572d930708291210v417a97dbqb7a2fe370e83ed3c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070829173840089098e7b422@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:

>Okay, another migration, another GID problem. I configured mailman to
>run as mail GID=mailman (which is 502) and cgi-gid = apache (which is
>48). The configuration and installation went fine and check_perms
>showed no problems.
>
>Setting up lists works okay. However, when I try to send a mesage to
>the list, I get this:
>
> test7 at myserver.com on 8/29/2007 11:36 AM
>            Failed (Command died with status 8:
>"/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post test7". Command output: Failure
>to    find group name for GID 1004.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper
>to be    executed as group "mailman", but the system's mail server
>executed the    wrapper as GID 1004 for which the name could not be
>found.  Try adding GID    1004 to your system as "mailman", or tweak
>your mail server to run the    wrapper as group "mailman".)
>
>Why is it looking at mailman GID=1004 when it is 502? Mailman UID is
>1004, but not GID.  I tried reconfiguring it with mail GID = nobody,
>which I have done before, but still get this message.


The message above is telling you that the mail wrapper is expecting to
be invoked as group 'mailman' (which you already know because you told
it to expect that when you configured with --with-mail-gid=mailman),
but the MTA is executing the pipe to Mailman as GID 1004.

rerunning configure with --with-mail-gid=1004 may fix this or you could
try to change whatever is required in your MTA or its Mailman aliases
to make it run the pipe to Mailman as group Mailman.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mk at epasella.com  Thu Aug 30 02:43:38 2007
From: mk at epasella.com (Mervyn Kahn)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 02:43:38 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fixed the To address problem now additional issues
In-Reply-To: <6B3A7025196C1A49AABB0E6C80AD5AE2918090@apsaserv.APSA.local>
References: <6B3A7025196C1A49AABB0E6C80AD5AE2918090@apsaserv.APSA.local>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAJq7y1NnJLdBgtUIpM+JAMnCgAAAEAAAAPGgvUHcIRtIiqLw4ltDKnEBAAAAAA==@epasella.com>

As per instructions below, Tecktonic set up the small change and corrected
the TO address issue.
After running a test, I now have an e mail address appearing in the CC when
it arrives.
How do I get rid of this?
And how do I correct the From issue so that it only has the following:
teamepasella at gmail.com
 
BELOW IS HOW THE MAIL IS ARRIVING
FROM: epasella-bounces at gmail.com; on behalf of; Teamepasella
[teamepasella at gmail.com]
TO: info at epasella.com   this is now correct
CC: [Epasella]  actually is this address epasella at gmail.com
Subject: Dedicated newsletter and special competition     all okay no
problem here 
 
Is there a link that will take me to a set up page with a diagram of
samples?
 
Thank you.
 
Mervyn Kahn
 
In the web admin interface on the Non-digest options page, set
personalize to 'Full Personalization'.
 
If you don't see the personalize setting, set
 
OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
 
in mm_cfg.py. If you don't have access to mm_cfg.py, you'll have to
negotiate with whoever does.
 
 
>2)     I would prefer that the from section does not contain all the
extra
>information how do I clean this up?
> Eg this appears Such as epasella-bounce at gmail.com on behalf of ******
 
 
This is a Microsoft Outlook issue. Most other MUAs do not do this. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.
 
-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
 

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug 30 02:44:13 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:44:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] more help with mailman configure and GID
In-Reply-To: <27572d930708291645i43ff1885n2d7a597605e2dab6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708291744130968e4c6eb35@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:
>
>So, all should be okay. Thanks for ignoring me.


Hey, I wasn't ignoring you. I was just out all day :-)

So now you can ignore my initial reply, and I'm glad you've got it
working.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug 30 02:46:15 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:46:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for eachlist?
In-Reply-To: <003e01c7ea58$f977fb40$ec67f1c0$@com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708291746150906e4c6eaf9@msapiro>

wittygal wrote:

>Thanks for the info. I am going to try to get back with them with regard to
>this and point them to the url in question for the faqs. Does anyone have a
>problem with me copying select portions of your emails on this subject?


Please feel free to quote anything I've posted in this thread or to
provide links to the list archives, and thanks for asking.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug 30 03:10:55 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 18:10:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fixed the To address problem now additional
	issues
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAJq7y1NnJLdBgtUIpM+JAMnCgAAAEAAAAPGgvUHcIRtIiqLw4ltDKnEBAAAAAA==@epasella.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070829181055084369e4ea22@msapiro>

Mervyn Kahn wrote:

>After running a test, I now have an e mail address appearing in the CC when
>it arrives.
>How do I get rid of this?


Did you send the post with a Cc: to epasella at gmail.com? That's what it
looks like. If you don't want Cc:s in the delivered posts, don't put
any Cc:s in the original.


>And how do I correct the From issue so that it only has the following:
>teamepasella at gmail.com


The mail being sent by Mailman has

From: teamepasella at gmail.com

It is Microsoft Outlook that is making up

FROM: epasella-bounces at gmail.com; on behalf of;
Teamepasella[teamepasella at gmail.com]

when it displays the received mail. To 'correct' this problem, read the
mail with some mail client other than MS Outlook. As I said before,

>This is a Microsoft Outlook issue. Most other MUAs do not do this. See
><http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Aug 30 05:10:03 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 22:10:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fixed the To address problem now additional
 issues
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAJq7y1NnJLdBgtUIpM+JAMnCgAAAEAAAAPGgvUHcIRtIiqLw4l
	tDKnEBAAAAAA==@epasella.com>
References: <6B3A7025196C1A49AABB0E6C80AD5AE2918090@apsaserv.APSA.local>
	<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAJq7y1NnJLdBgtUIpM+JAMnCgAAAEAAAAPGgvUHcIRtIiqLw4l
	tDKnEBAAAAAA==@epasella.com>
Message-ID: <p06240801c2fbe5082d5d@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/30/07, Mervyn Kahn wrote:

>  FROM: epasella-bounces at gmail.com; on behalf of; Teamepasella
>  [teamepasella at gmail.com]

If this is what you're trying to fix, then the problem is with 
Microsoft.  See FAQ 2.3 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.

>  CC: [Epasella]  actually is this address epasella at gmail.com

I'd be willing to bet that this problem is also the fault of 
Microsoft, but I do not have any direct experience to back up that 
gut feeling.

>  Is there a link that will take me to a set up page with a diagram of
>  samples?

Not sure what you're looking for here.  Not sure that we can help.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From Marco.DeRossi at roma1.infn.it  Thu Aug 30 12:43:02 2007
From: Marco.DeRossi at roma1.infn.it (Marco De Rossi)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:43:02 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman, attachment and digital sign
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c2d8001764f6@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0708021616450.14530@login1.roma1.infn.it>
	<p06240801c2d8001764f6@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0708301239590.15546@login1.roma1.infn.it>

I tried to turn off all "Content Filtering" but it didn't fixed the 
signature problem.
Some other suggestion?

Thanks, Marco De Rossi


On Thu, 2 Aug 2007, Brad Knowles wrote:

> On 8/2/07, Marco De Rossi wrote:
> 
> >  We have modifed mailman so now it not add the message footer anymore.
> >  Now we still have this problem only when we send digital signed e-mail
> >  *with attachment*.
> 
> I can see two likely possibilities:
> 
> 	1.  The digital signature is being done against the whole message,
> 	headers included.  When the message passes through Mailman, some
> 	headers end up getting changed or added, and the signature is no
> 	longer valid.
> 
> 	2.  Mailman is still stripping or changing some of the attachment
> 	MIME types or filenames, which causes the signature to be invalidated.
> 
> Problem is, cryptographic signatures on messages are extremely 
> fragile.  If even the slightest thing is changed, the signature is 
> likely to be broken.  If you make the signature process more robust, 
> then you increase the possibility that an attacker could slip 
> something through that would still appear to be correct, but where 
> they've actually secretly modified something.
> 
> Try turning off all filtering, HTML conversion, etc... within 
> Mailman.  See if that "fixes" the signature problem.  If so, then you 
> have to decide which is more important -- the signature on some 
> messages or the probability that some malware could get through the 
> system and sent out to all recipients of the list, because you'd 
> turned off the filtering.
> 
> Unfortunately, this is a binary decision.  There is no option to 
> leave signed messages unfiltered and to apply the filtering rules 
> only to unsigned messages.  Even if there were such a method, the 
> attackers could get through by simply forging fake signatures that 
> look valid.
> 
> -- 
> Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
> Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>
> 
> 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug 30 16:44:42 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 07:44:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman, attachment and digital sign
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0708301239590.15546@login1.roma1.infn.it>
Message-ID: <PC17602007083007444205784018464c@msapiro>

Marco De Rossi wrote:

>I tried to turn off all "Content Filtering" but it didn't fixed the 
>signature problem.
>Some other suggestion?
>
>Thanks, Marco De Rossi
>
>
>On Thu, 2 Aug 2007, Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>> On 8/2/07, Marco De Rossi wrote:
>> 
>> >  We have modifed mailman so now it not add the message footer anymore.
>> >  Now we still have this problem only when we send digital signed e-mail
>> >  *with attachment*.


What kind of signature are you using? Are you using PGP/MIME to sign
the message with attachment? Mailman doesn't normally break these
signatures.

Can you look at the raw messages to and from Mailman and identify what
changes cause the signature to break? This information will help us
suggest a solution.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Marco.DeRossi at roma1.infn.it  Thu Aug 30 16:47:53 2007
From: Marco.DeRossi at roma1.infn.it (Marco De Rossi)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:47:53 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman, attachment and digital sign
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0708301239590.15546@login1.roma1.infn.it>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0708021616450.14530@login1.roma1.infn.it>
	<p06240801c2d8001764f6@[192.168.1.199]>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0708301239590.15546@login1.roma1.infn.it>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0708301644460.16085@login1.roma1.infn.it>

If it could be helpful: it seems happen only sending e-mail from a Windows 
XP operating system (sending e-mail from a linux OS the digital signature 
is OK).

Thanks, Marco De Rossi


On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Marco De Rossi wrote:

> I tried to turn off all "Content Filtering" but it didn't fixed the 
> signature problem.
> Some other suggestion?
> 
> Thanks, Marco De Rossi
> 
> 
> On Thu, 2 Aug 2007, Brad Knowles wrote:
> 
> > On 8/2/07, Marco De Rossi wrote:
> > 
> > >  We have modifed mailman so now it not add the message footer anymore.
> > >  Now we still have this problem only when we send digital signed e-mail
> > >  *with attachment*.
> > 
> > I can see two likely possibilities:
> > 
> > 	1.  The digital signature is being done against the whole message,
> > 	headers included.  When the message passes through Mailman, some
> > 	headers end up getting changed or added, and the signature is no
> > 	longer valid.
> > 
> > 	2.  Mailman is still stripping or changing some of the attachment
> > 	MIME types or filenames, which causes the signature to be invalidated.
> > 
> > Problem is, cryptographic signatures on messages are extremely 
> > fragile.  If even the slightest thing is changed, the signature is 
> > likely to be broken.  If you make the signature process more robust, 
> > then you increase the possibility that an attacker could slip 
> > something through that would still appear to be correct, but where 
> > they've actually secretly modified something.
> > 
> > Try turning off all filtering, HTML conversion, etc... within 
> > Mailman.  See if that "fixes" the signature problem.  If so, then you 
> > have to decide which is more important -- the signature on some 
> > messages or the probability that some malware could get through the 
> > system and sent out to all recipients of the list, because you'd 
> > turned off the filtering.
> > 
> > Unfortunately, this is a binary decision.  There is no option to 
> > leave signed messages unfiltered and to apply the filtering rules 
> > only to unsigned messages.  Even if there were such a method, the 
> > attackers could get through by simply forging fake signatures that 
> > look valid.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
> > LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
> > Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>
> > 
> > 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug 30 16:49:48 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 07:49:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fixed the To address problem now additional
	issues
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAJq7y1NnJLdBgtUIpM+JAMnCgAAAEAAAAECwHFm7jwtCrMJuvEazT3MBAAAAAA==@epasella.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070830074948029640184538@msapiro>

Mervyn Kahn wrote:

>Thanks for responding.
>No I do not have any address in the outgoing CC
>The problem only started after the correction in Mailman of the To Line
>So that it would display the recipients address.
> Up until the correction or update, it would not display the address of the
>recipient.
>As soon as that was corrected --Bingo the CC address started appearing.
>Strangely though there is no address epasella at gmail.com


Please provide an exact copy of all the headers of the message to and
from Mailman. I.e., send a message to Mailman with a Bcc: to yourself
and then get the raw headers of this Bcc: and those of the message
Mailman sends. You may edit addresses/domains for privacy if you wish,
but post these sets of headers for our analysis.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug 30 16:59:44 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 07:59:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fixed the To address problem now additional
	issues
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAJq7y1NnJLdBgtUIpM+JAMnCgAAAEAAAAHe/Q+R2lsxDs0v8Jsdfmw4BAAAAAA==@epasella.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070830075944085983bae2a7@msapiro>

Mervyn Kahn wrote:

>The same problem occurs in Hotmail.
>
>As I stated this problem only started after correcting the TO line so that
>it displays the recipients correct e mail address.
>
>Prior to that , it was not a problem at all.


I assume you're talking about the CC: problem as the 'on behalf of'
problem which is the Microsoft Outlook problem was mentioned in your
original post
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-August/058089.html>.

I have replied separately to the CC: problem
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-August/058185.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Marco.DeRossi at roma1.infn.it  Thu Aug 30 17:03:30 2007
From: Marco.DeRossi at roma1.infn.it (Marco De Rossi)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:03:30 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman, attachment and digital sign
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007083007444205784018464c@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007083007444205784018464c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0708301659001.16099@login1.roma1.infn.it>

We use X.509 certificate.
Could I send to the list a little attachment to see if problem is present 
with mailman-users mailing list too?

Thanks, Marco De Rossi


On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Marco De Rossi wrote:
> 
> >I tried to turn off all "Content Filtering" but it didn't fixed the 
> >signature problem.
> >Some other suggestion?
> >
> >Thanks, Marco De Rossi
> >
> >
> >On Thu, 2 Aug 2007, Brad Knowles wrote:
> >
> >> On 8/2/07, Marco De Rossi wrote:
> >> 
> >> >  We have modifed mailman so now it not add the message footer anymore.
> >> >  Now we still have this problem only when we send digital signed e-mail
> >> >  *with attachment*.
> 
> 
> What kind of signature are you using? Are you using PGP/MIME to sign
> the message with attachment? Mailman doesn't normally break these
> signatures.
> 
> Can you look at the raw messages to and from Mailman and identify what
> changes cause the signature to break? This information will help us
> suggest a solution.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Aug 30 17:04:49 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:04:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman, attachment and digital sign
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0708301644460.16085@login1.roma1.infn.it>
Message-ID: <PC176020070830080449065683bae1e1@msapiro>

Marco De Rossi wrote:

>If it could be helpful: it seems happen only sending e-mail from a Windows 
>XP operating system (sending e-mail from a linux OS the digital signature 
>is OK).


What (broken?) mail client on Windows and what kind of signature? See
my other reply at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-August/058183.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Marco.DeRossi at roma1.infn.it  Thu Aug 30 17:10:06 2007
From: Marco.DeRossi at roma1.infn.it (Marco De Rossi)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:10:06 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman, attachment and digital sign
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070830080449065683bae1e1@msapiro>
References: <PC176020070830080449065683bae1e1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0708301709080.16150@login1.roma1.infn.it>

I used Netscape Mail v7.2 and Mozilla Thunderbird v2.0.0.6 with X.509 
Certificate.

Marco De Rossi


On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Marco De Rossi wrote:
> 
> >If it could be helpful: it seems happen only sending e-mail from a Windows 
> >XP operating system (sending e-mail from a linux OS the digital signature 
> >is OK).
> 
> 
> What (broken?) mail client on Windows and what kind of signature? See
> my other reply at
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-August/058183.html>.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 

From Marco.DeRossi at roma1.infn.it  Thu Aug 30 17:24:27 2007
From: Marco.DeRossi at roma1.infn.it (Marco De Rossi)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:24:27 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman, attachment and digital sign
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0708301659001.16099@login1.roma1.infn.it>
References: <PC17602007083007444205784018464c@msapiro>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0708301659001.16099@login1.roma1.infn.it>
Message-ID: <46D6E12B.5070809@Roma1.infn.it>

Test

Marco De Rossi

Marco De Rossi wrote:

>We use X.509 certificate.
>Could I send to the list a little attachment to see if problem is present 
>with mailman-users mailing list too?
>
>Thanks, Marco De Rossi
>
>
>On Thu, 30 Aug 2007, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Marco De Rossi wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>I tried to turn off all "Content Filtering" but it didn't fixed the 
>>>signature problem.
>>>Some other suggestion?
>>>
>>>Thanks, Marco De Rossi
>>>
>>>
>>>On Thu, 2 Aug 2007, Brad Knowles wrote:
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>On 8/2/07, Marco De Rossi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>> We have modifed mailman so now it not add the message footer anymore.
>>>>> Now we still have this problem only when we send digital signed e-mail
>>>>> *with attachment*.
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>What kind of signature are you using? Are you using PGP/MIME to sign
>>the message with attachment? Mailman doesn't normally break these
>>signatures.
>>
>>Can you look at the raw messages to and from Mailman and identify what
>>changes cause the signature to break? This information will help us
>>suggest a solution.
>>
>>-- 
>>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>>    
>>


From Ted.Fitzpatrick at dof.ca.gov  Thu Aug 30 19:42:11 2007
From: Ted.Fitzpatrick at dof.ca.gov (Fitzpatrick, Ted)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 10:42:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman post being blocked / filtered
Message-ID: <DA1D6951A4720F4FBC5BF398E4D5B12203B44546@dofmail.DOF.FINANCE>

Hi,

 

I recently set up some new mailing lists in Mailman, and I've received
reports that some recipients aren't receiving the message because spam
filters on their end are blocking the mailman message.

 

How can I ensure that their spam filters aren't blocking mailman
messages?

 

Thanks,

 

Ted


From kyle.banerjee at gmail.com  Thu Aug 30 20:31:22 2007
From: kyle.banerjee at gmail.com (Kyle Banerjee)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:31:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message received by mailman and archives,
	but won't deliver
Message-ID: <47eed6660708301131o39f085e6xdffdcc57cbd65f5b@mail.gmail.com>

Howdy all,

I've been stumped with a problem with my installation of mailman
2.1.9. OS is BSD, and MTA is sendmail if that matters.

Problem is that if I send mail to a list, it never gets sent out

I can see the mail come through in maillog just fine. It shows up as
posted with success in post. It shows up in smtp  as sent to the
number of recipients. I even see an outgoing message in maillog. But
no one gets it. I really don't think it is a spam thing because the
lists are huge and no one is getting them.

Yet if I send messages to people directly from the server (not using
mailman), everything gets through in a jiffy. Any light that could be
shed on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,

kyle

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Aug 30 20:37:45 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:37:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman post being blocked / filtered
In-Reply-To: <DA1D6951A4720F4FBC5BF398E4D5B12203B44546@dofmail.DOF.FINANCE>
References: <DA1D6951A4720F4FBC5BF398E4D5B12203B44546@dofmail.DOF.FINANCE>
Message-ID: <614444B5-8FAC-41A6-9215-967AADA8C8DB@shub-internet.org>

That's like asking how you keep criminals from breaking into other  
peoples houses -- you don't.


If you control the mail servers in question, then you can ensure that  
they don't reject amy of your list messages.

Otherwise, the best you can do is ensure that your reverse DNS is set  
up correctly and do daily checks of all the known blacklists to see if  
the IP address of your mailing list server has been listed.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-Internet.org>

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 30, 2007, at 12:42 PM, "Fitzpatrick, Ted" <Ted.Fitzpatrick at dof.ca.gov 
 > wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
>
> I recently set up some new mailing lists in Mailman, and I've received
> reports that some recipients aren't receiving the message because spam
> filters on their end are blocking the mailman message.
>
>
>
> How can I ensure that their spam filters aren't blocking mailman
> messages?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Ted
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brad%40shub-internet.org
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Aug 30 20:41:25 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:41:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message received by mailman and archives,
	but won't deliver
In-Reply-To: <47eed6660708301131o39f085e6xdffdcc57cbd65f5b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47eed6660708301131o39f085e6xdffdcc57cbd65f5b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E74F29FF-C8CA-474C-AA72-826B06E92857@shub-internet.org>

You see just one outgoing message in your mail log? What, precisely is  
actually showing up in your outgoing sendmail logs?

Are you sure that your outgoing mail isn't being routed through  
another mail server somewhere, which might be throwing it away or  
causing it to be mis-recognized as spam?

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-Internet.org>

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 30, 2007, at 1:31 PM, "Kyle Banerjee" <kyle.banerjee at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> Howdy all,
>
> I've been stumped with a problem with my installation of mailman
> 2.1.9. OS is BSD, and MTA is sendmail if that matters.
>
> Problem is that if I send mail to a list, it never gets sent out
>
> I can see the mail come through in maillog just fine. It shows up as
> posted with success in post. It shows up in smtp  as sent to the
> number of recipients. I even see an outgoing message in maillog. But
> no one gets it. I really don't think it is a spam thing because the
> lists are huge and no one is getting them.
>
> Yet if I send messages to people directly from the server (not using
> mailman), everything gets through in a jiffy. Any light that could be
> shed on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,
>
> kyle
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brad%40shub-internet.org
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

From kyle.banerjee at gmail.com  Thu Aug 30 20:55:07 2007
From: kyle.banerjee at gmail.com (Kyle Banerjee)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:55:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message received by mailman and archives,
	but won't deliver
In-Reply-To: <E74F29FF-C8CA-474C-AA72-826B06E92857@shub-internet.org>
References: <47eed6660708301131o39f085e6xdffdcc57cbd65f5b@mail.gmail.com>
	<E74F29FF-C8CA-474C-AA72-826B06E92857@shub-internet.org>
Message-ID: <47eed6660708301155k4b93114ejd91220868583a9f2@mail.gmail.com>

> You see just one outgoing message in your mail log? What, precisely is
> actually showing up in your outgoing sendmail logs?
>
> Are you sure that your outgoing mail isn't being routed through
> another mail server somewhere, which might be throwing it away or
> causing it to be mis-recognized as spam?

There are a number of lists, one has about 5K people on it. If I send
a message to one that has only 5 people on it, I see something like:

Aug 30 18:25:00 innopacusers sm-mta[32967]: l7UIOfmI032960:
to=<name.removed at colorado.edu>, delay=00:00:13, xdelay=00:00:03,
mailer=esmtp, pri=155445, relay=mx15.colorado.edu. [128.138.128.115],
dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (Ok: queued as D091E692112)
Aug 30 18:25:02 innopacusers sm-mta[32967]: l7UIOfmI032960:
to=<name.removed2 at mail.lib.msu.edu>, delay=00:00:15, xdelay=00:00:02,
mailer=esmtp, pri=155445, relay=mail1.mail.lib.msu.edu. [35.8.223.61],
dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (
<47eed6660708301124u6bda99bbo92e00b4180ccad48 at mail.gmail.com> Queued
mail for delivery)
Aug 30 18:25:02 innopacusers sm-mta[32967]: STARTTLS=client,
relay=relay.oregonstate.edu., version=TLSv1/SSLv3, verify=FAIL,
cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA, bits=256/256
Aug 30 18:25:02 innopacusers sm-mta[32967]: l7UIOfmI032960:
to=<name.removed3 at oregonstate.edu>, delay=00:00:15, xdelay=00:00:00,
mailer=esmtp, pri=155445, relay=relay.oregonstate.edu.
[128.193.15.33], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (Ok: queued as 90B39410794)
Aug 30 18:25:03 innopacusers sm-mta[32960]: l7UIOfmJ032960:
from=<webguru-bounces at innopacusers.org>, size=11445, class=-30,
nrcpts=1, msgid=<47eed6660708301124u6bda99bbo92e00b4180ccad48 at mail.gmail.com>,
proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
Aug 30 18:25:04 innopacusers sm-mta[32976]: l7UIOfmJ032960:
to=<name.removed4 at gmail.com>, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01,
mailer=esmtp, pri=95445, relay=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com.
[64.233.167.114], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (OK 1188498304 u62si752714pyb)

"webguru" is the name of this test list. The strange thing is that
we've been running for years with no problems. Yesterday, I was
getting errors with invalid character sets that seemed to be gumming
things up. I messed around with it to no avail, so I upgraded to the
latest version. I cleared out everything in process just to make sure
that nothing that hadn't been processed wasn't blocking everything
else.

When the problem was first reported, the logs looked OK to me, so I
told them there was a a delivery problem at their end. Then calls and
emails started pouring in, and I realized that I hadn't received any
messages even though I use gmail with no filters and I usually get
dozens of messages from one of our lists each day. I checked to make
sure we're not blacklisted and that seemed OK too. The weird thing is
that I can send email from the command line no problem, and
administrative messages (subscribe, unsubscribe, etc) seem to get
through just fine.

kyle

From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Thu Aug 30 22:17:34 2007
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:17:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman post being blocked / filtered
In-Reply-To: <DA1D6951A4720F4FBC5BF398E4D5B12203B44546@dofmail.DOF.FINANCE>
References: <DA1D6951A4720F4FBC5BF398E4D5B12203B44546@dofmail.DOF.FINANCE>
Message-ID: <DA5DFFA7-643F-4848-9CAC-2B27E303FE75@goldmark.org>

On Aug 30, 2007, at 12:42 PM, Fitzpatrick, Ted wrote:

> How can I ensure that their spam filters aren't blocking mailman
> messages?

It really depends on why the mail filters are blocking the mail.  Do  
you see anything in your MTA logs that is useful?

You can improve your chances by doing things like making sure that  
all of the DNS checks that spam filters might run against your mail  
server succeed.  Having an SPF record for your mailserver might  
help.  But these are general sorts of answers.  Without details of  
who's blocking and why such vague help is the best anyone can offer.

-j


From kyle.banerjee at gmail.com  Thu Aug 30 23:14:01 2007
From: kyle.banerjee at gmail.com (Kyle Banerjee)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:14:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message received by mailman and archives,
	but won't deliver
In-Reply-To: <47eed6660708301155k4b93114ejd91220868583a9f2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47eed6660708301131o39f085e6xdffdcc57cbd65f5b@mail.gmail.com>
	<E74F29FF-C8CA-474C-AA72-826B06E92857@shub-internet.org>
	<47eed6660708301155k4b93114ejd91220868583a9f2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47eed6660708301414j220f9583oa3ac2c2cb0bbae3f@mail.gmail.com>

Further clarification on this problem.

It turns out that not everything is showing in the post log. After a
certain amount of time, the messages that are not getting through
appear in qfiles/out/*.pck

I turned debug=1 in SMTPDirect.py but haven't uncovered anything.

This is nuts, I'm willing to entertain even crazy speculation at this point.

kyle

On 8/30/07, Kyle Banerjee <kyle.banerjee at gmail.com> wrote:
> > You see just one outgoing message in your mail log? What, precisely is
> > actually showing up in your outgoing sendmail logs?
> >
> > Are you sure that your outgoing mail isn't being routed through
> > another mail server somewhere, which might be throwing it away or
> > causing it to be mis-recognized as spam?
>
> There are a number of lists, one has about 5K people on it. If I send
> a message to one that has only 5 people on it, I see something like:
>
> Aug 30 18:25:00 innopacusers sm-mta[32967]: l7UIOfmI032960:
> to=<name.removed at colorado.edu>, delay=00:00:13, xdelay=00:00:03,
> mailer=esmtp, pri=155445, relay=mx15.colorado.edu. [128.138.128.115],
> dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (Ok: queued as D091E692112)
> Aug 30 18:25:02 innopacusers sm-mta[32967]: l7UIOfmI032960:
> to=<name.removed2 at mail.lib.msu.edu>, delay=00:00:15, xdelay=00:00:02,
> mailer=esmtp, pri=155445, relay=mail1.mail.lib.msu.edu. [35.8.223.61],
> dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (
> <47eed6660708301124u6bda99bbo92e00b4180ccad48 at mail.gmail.com> Queued
> mail for delivery)
> Aug 30 18:25:02 innopacusers sm-mta[32967]: STARTTLS=client,
> relay=relay.oregonstate.edu., version=TLSv1/SSLv3, verify=FAIL,
> cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA, bits=256/256
> Aug 30 18:25:02 innopacusers sm-mta[32967]: l7UIOfmI032960:
> to=<name.removed3 at oregonstate.edu>, delay=00:00:15, xdelay=00:00:00,
> mailer=esmtp, pri=155445, relay=relay.oregonstate.edu.
> [128.193.15.33], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (Ok: queued as 90B39410794)
> Aug 30 18:25:03 innopacusers sm-mta[32960]: l7UIOfmJ032960:
> from=<webguru-bounces at innopacusers.org>, size=11445, class=-30,
> nrcpts=1, msgid=<47eed6660708301124u6bda99bbo92e00b4180ccad48 at mail.gmail.com>,
> proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
> Aug 30 18:25:04 innopacusers sm-mta[32976]: l7UIOfmJ032960:
> to=<name.removed4 at gmail.com>, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01,
> mailer=esmtp, pri=95445, relay=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com.
> [64.233.167.114], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (OK 1188498304 u62si752714pyb)
>
> "webguru" is the name of this test list. The strange thing is that
> we've been running for years with no problems. Yesterday, I was
> getting errors with invalid character sets that seemed to be gumming
> things up. I messed around with it to no avail, so I upgraded to the
> latest version. I cleared out everything in process just to make sure
> that nothing that hadn't been processed wasn't blocking everything
> else.
>
> When the problem was first reported, the logs looked OK to me, so I
> told them there was a a delivery problem at their end. Then calls and
> emails started pouring in, and I realized that I hadn't received any
> messages even though I use gmail with no filters and I usually get
> dozens of messages from one of our lists each day. I checked to make
> sure we're not blacklisted and that seemed OK too. The weird thing is
> that I can send email from the command line no problem, and
> administrative messages (subscribe, unsubscribe, etc) seem to get
> through just fine.
>
> kyle
>


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------
Kyle Banerjee
Digital Services Program Manager
Orbis Cascade Alliance
banerjek at uoregon.edu / 541.359.9599

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Aug 31 00:23:09 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:23:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message received by mailman and archives,
	but won't deliver
In-Reply-To: <47eed6660708301414j220f9583oa3ac2c2cb0bbae3f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47eed6660708301131o39f085e6xdffdcc57cbd65f5b@mail.gmail.com>
	<E74F29FF-C8CA-474C-AA72-826B06E92857@shub-internet.org>
	<47eed6660708301155k4b93114ejd91220868583a9f2@mail.gmail.com>
	<47eed6660708301414j220f9583oa3ac2c2cb0bbae3f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <15EDA1A0-8423-4154-A861-5232F57DF840@shub-internet.org>

Check your Mailman "error" log file. I'm guessing that there is one or  
more malformed messages in the Mailman queue that is hosing things up.

Problem is, the real problem is usually before the errors start  
showing up in the logs. Start with what shows up in the logs and work  
backwards.

I don't recall the exact FAQ number or URL, but search the FAQ wizard  
for "troubleshooting".

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-Internet.org>

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 30, 2007, at 4:14 PM, "Kyle Banerjee" <kyle.banerjee at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> Further clarification on this problem.
>
> It turns out that not everything is showing in the post log. After a
> certain amount of time, the messages that are not getting through
> appear in qfiles/out/*.pck
>
> I turned debug=1 in SMTPDirect.py but haven't uncovered anything.
>
> This is nuts, I'm willing to entertain even crazy speculation at  
> this point.
>
> kyle
>
> On 8/30/07, Kyle Banerjee <kyle.banerjee at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> You see just one outgoing message in your mail log? What,  
>>> precisely is
>>> actually showing up in your outgoing sendmail logs?
>>>
>>> Are you sure that your outgoing mail isn't being routed through
>>> another mail server somewhere, which might be throwing it away or
>>> causing it to be mis-recognized as spam?
>>
>> There are a number of lists, one has about 5K people on it. If I send
>> a message to one that has only 5 people on it, I see something like:
>>
>> Aug 30 18:25:00 innopacusers sm-mta[32967]: l7UIOfmI032960:
>> to=<name.removed at colorado.edu>, delay=00:00:13, xdelay=00:00:03,
>> mailer=esmtp, pri=155445, relay=mx15.colorado.edu. [128.138.128.115],
>> dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (Ok: queued as D091E692112)
>> Aug 30 18:25:02 innopacusers sm-mta[32967]: l7UIOfmI032960:
>> to=<name.removed2 at mail.lib.msu.edu>, delay=00:00:15, xdelay=00:00:02,
>> mailer=esmtp, pri=155445, relay=mail1.mail.lib.msu.edu.  
>> [35.8.223.61],
>> dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (
>> <47eed6660708301124u6bda99bbo92e00b4180ccad48 at mail.gmail.com> Queued
>> mail for delivery)
>> Aug 30 18:25:02 innopacusers sm-mta[32967]: STARTTLS=client,
>> relay=relay.oregonstate.edu., version=TLSv1/SSLv3, verify=FAIL,
>> cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA, bits=256/256
>> Aug 30 18:25:02 innopacusers sm-mta[32967]: l7UIOfmI032960:
>> to=<name.removed3 at oregonstate.edu>, delay=00:00:15, xdelay=00:00:00,
>> mailer=esmtp, pri=155445, relay=relay.oregonstate.edu.
>> [128.193.15.33], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (Ok: queued as 90B39410794)
>> Aug 30 18:25:03 innopacusers sm-mta[32960]: l7UIOfmJ032960:
>> from=<webguru-bounces at innopacusers.org>, size=11445, class=-30,
>> nrcpts=1, msgid=<47eed6660708301124u6bda99bbo92e00b4180ccad48 at mail.gmail.com 
>> >,
>> proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
>> Aug 30 18:25:04 innopacusers sm-mta[32976]: l7UIOfmJ032960:
>> to=<name.removed4 at gmail.com>, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01,
>> mailer=esmtp, pri=95445, relay=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com.
>> [64.233.167.114], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (OK 1188498304 u62si752714pyb)
>>
>> "webguru" is the name of this test list. The strange thing is that
>> we've been running for years with no problems. Yesterday, I was
>> getting errors with invalid character sets that seemed to be gumming
>> things up. I messed around with it to no avail, so I upgraded to the
>> latest version. I cleared out everything in process just to make sure
>> that nothing that hadn't been processed wasn't blocking everything
>> else.
>>
>> When the problem was first reported, the logs looked OK to me, so I
>> told them there was a a delivery problem at their end. Then calls and
>> emails started pouring in, and I realized that I hadn't received any
>> messages even though I use gmail with no filters and I usually get
>> dozens of messages from one of our lists each day. I checked to make
>> sure we're not blacklisted and that seemed OK too. The weird thing is
>> that I can send email from the command line no problem, and
>> administrative messages (subscribe, unsubscribe, etc) seem to get
>> through just fine.
>>
>> kyle
>>
>
>
> -- 
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Kyle Banerjee
> Digital Services Program Manager
> Orbis Cascade Alliance
> banerjek at uoregon.edu / 541.359.9599
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brad%40shub-internet.org
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Aug 31 02:10:53 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:10:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman, Lighttpd, & file permissions
In-Reply-To: <46D5A1A4.1040404@finity.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708301710530234354d2f7f@msapiro>

Jeffrey Rice wrote:
>
>So far, it appears to work well.  I have one error with the postalias 
>call, but since I'm using postfix-to-mailman.py I don't think I need it 
>and the list is created despite that crash.


If you are using postfix-to-mailman.py, you should have

MTA = None

(note no quotes) and not

MTA = 'Postfix'

in mm_cfg.py. MTA = 'Postfix' is only for automating the creation of
Postfix aliases for Mailman lists, and with postfix-to-mailman.py, you
aren't using aliases for Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Aug 31 02:26:02 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:26:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message received by mailman and archives,
	but won't deliver
In-Reply-To: <47eed6660708301414j220f9583oa3ac2c2cb0bbae3f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708301726020937354d320b@msapiro>

Kyle Banerjee wrote:

>Further clarification on this problem.
>
>It turns out that not everything is showing in the post log. After a
>certain amount of time, the messages that are not getting through
>appear in qfiles/out/*.pck


How much time? They should appear almost immediately in qfiles/out/
unless they've been spending time in qfiles/retry/.

What is in Mailman's smtp-failure log? What does Mailman's smtp log
look like? does it show the symptom of a backlogged qfiles/out/ queue?
Namely, many successive entries being timestamped at intervals equal
to the processing time of the entry.


>I turned debug=1 in SMTPDirect.py but haven't uncovered anything.


What 'debug=1'? If you mean you just set

debug=1

in SMTPDirect.py, this will do nothing. The only additional debugging
switch that applies to SMTPDirect.py is described at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.073.htp>,
and be sure to note that this won't work and will only cause
additional problems if your Python version is less than 2.4.


>This is nuts, I'm willing to entertain even crazy speculation at this point.


If the messages that aren't being delivered are remaining in Mailman's
qfiles/retry and qfiles/out queues, report what you find in Mailman's
smtp-failure (and as Brad suggested, error) logs and what you find
from examination of Mailman's smtp log.

If the messages are accepted by sendmail and then fail to be delivered,
that part at least is a sendmail issue.

Also see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.078.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Aug 31 03:17:38 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 18:17:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman, attachment and digital sign
In-Reply-To: <46D6E12B.5070809@Roma1.infn.it>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708301817380000f5fd6e86@msapiro>

Marco De Rossi wrote:
>
>Marco De Rossi wrote:
>
>>We use X.509 certificate.
>>Could I send to the list a little attachment to see if problem is present 
>>with mailman-users mailing list too?


The message you sent has a PKCS7 (RFC 2315) signature. Of course, the
signature was broken by the mailman-users list because content
filtering removed one of the signed parts.

For the specific issue of your lists, here's what I think, but I'm not
at all knowledgable about PKCS7, so I'm not sure.

I skimmed over RFC 2315 and also looked at the message structure. The
original message has

Content-Type: multipart/signed;
protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1;

The content consists of a

Content-Type: multipart/mixed;

part and a

Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s"

part. The multipart/mixed part consists of a text/plain part and an
image/gif part.

Such a message structure with a Open PGP/MIME signature rather than a
PKCS7 signature can pass through a Mailman list without breaking the
signature as long as the list does no content filtering and doesn't
add any list header or footer. Depending on the client verifying the
signature, even the addition of a list header or footer may not break
the signature (actually, the signature doesn't break, but clients may
refuse to recognize the message as signed if the multipart/signed
content is not the top level of the message).

In your case, I would expect the message could also pass through a
Mailman list with no content filtering and no added list header or
footer without breaking the signature, and in fact you said it does if
the message originates from a Linux system.

So the question is, what is different about the Windows system that
results in Mailman's breaking the signature.

I see the following in RFC 2315 section 9 step 1.

  1.   For each signer, a message digest is computed on
       the content with a signer-specific message-digest
       algorithm. (If two signers employ the same message-digest
       algorithm, then the message digest need be computed for
       only one of them.) If the signer is authenticating any
       information other than the content (see Section 9.2), the
       message digest of the content and the other information are
       digested with the signer's message digest algorithm, and
       the result becomes the "message digest."

This says to me that the "message digest" which is signed can
optionally include some message headers which may be altered by
Mailman - e.g., perhaps a Subject: which has a prefix added - thus,
breaking the signature.

Or, possibly the Windows client is doing some unorthodox treatment of
trailing whitespace in the message content, but this seems unlikely if
the signatures normally validate.

Thus, you could try making the list's subject_prefix empty and see if
that helps, or better still, if you can set the Windows clients to
sign only the content and not any headers, try that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Aug 31 03:28:05 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 18:28:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message received by mailman and archives,
	but won't deliver
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200708301726020937354d320b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708301828050218f5fd6f3f@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>How much time? They should appear almost immediately in qfiles/out/
>unless they've been spending time in qfiles/retry/.


In fact, in a well running Mailman installation qfiles/out/ is normally
empty except for the occasional entry you see for a second or so while
it's waiting to be picked up. (In 2.1.9, it will remain longer as a
*.bak file while it is being processed by
OutgoingRunner/SMTPDirect.py.)

If *.pck files are hanging around in qfiles/out/, either there is a
backlog (probably due to a configuration issue if it persists), or
there is some problem with OutgoingRunner.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jonathan at nerds.net  Fri Aug 31 04:24:58 2007
From: jonathan at nerds.net (Jonathan Dill)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:24:58 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with new web host and "too many complaints"
Message-ID: <46D77BFA.6050803@nerds.net>

Greetings,

I hope this is not too OT, hopefully someone here has had a similar 
experience and can offer some practical advice, I'm not sure what to 
tell this customer at this point.

I have a customer who has a fairly large opt-in only mailman mailing 
list (~40,000 subscribers) that they use to send out a weekly 
newsletter, people seem to primarily subscribe for the weekly contest 
for free tickets to events.  Unsubscribe links are conspicuous, and 
people who otherwise complain are unsubscribed from the list.

Recently, they moved their web hosting to a new service, and the new 
service shut down their website because they had received "too many 
complaints" about the newsletter, which mentions the website address.  I 
would have thought it would be easier to follow the unsubscribe link 
than track down the hosting company for the website, which makes me 
wonder if these "complaints" are being generated by some kind of 
antispam software.  The host forwarded a "sample" but stripped out some 
of the message headers, so all I can tell is that it really was in 
response to the newsletter.

Now the web host is talking about requiring that all of the subscribers 
be required to "opt in" again or be unsubscribed from the list--to be 
honest, that might not be a bad idea, but the customer wants to avoid this.

Has anyone else run into a situation like this and have some practical 
advice?  They have been asking me about technical ways to circumvent the 
problem, but that sounds like a really bad idea to me for several 
reasons, I don't want to be a party to that.  I'm wondering if they 
should just say to heck with this hosting company, but the customer is 
concerned that moving to yet another ISP is going to be just as painful 
a process as it was moving to this one, and I am not entirely sure that 
they wouldn't run into the same "complaint" problem with another host.

Thanks,
Jonathan

From kyle.banerjee at gmail.com  Fri Aug 31 05:10:52 2007
From: kyle.banerjee at gmail.com (Kyle Banerjee)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:10:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message received by mailman and archives,
	but won't deliver
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200708301828050218f5fd6f3f@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200708301726020937354d320b@msapiro>
	<PC1760200708301828050218f5fd6f3f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47eed6660708302010x334f5d5end3d08162402ccfe8@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the advice -- I believe your suggestion that the issue is
related to OutgoingRunner is most likely correct, but I'm not out of
the woods yet.

> >How much time? They should appear almost immediately in qfiles/out/
> >unless they've been spending time in qfiles/retry/.

This was probably the wrong thing to do, but out of frustration, I
blasted out my installation, put in a clean install, and recovered the
list itself from backup using instructions at
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.004.htp

This has had the effect of clearing logs and removing ineffective and
possibly harmful changes I made. I'm still having problems delivering
mail.

I've sent a few messages to the lists over the past couple hours. Here
is what I'm seeing:

1) The files are appearing almost immediately in qfiles/out/ where
they seem to stay. Nothing is in retry or the other qfiles
directories.

2) Even a couple hours later, nothing shows up in post, smtp, or
smtp-failure. However, someone who belonged to one of the lists sent
one through. I found the entry

Aug 31 02:18:53 2007 (40546)
<01F67337-E566-4AA4-B684-01C9E2F3F9FB at mac.com> smtp to innopac for
2014 recips, completed in 11231.212 seconds

The amount of time for the transaction seems insane. Load is
practically nonexistent.

3) When I send a message to the list, maillog makes it look like
everything happened. For example, if I send it to the list with 4
people in it

Aug 31 02:47:54 innopacusers sm-mta[52010]: l7V2lmww052010:
from=<namedeleted at gmail.com>, size=5888, class=0, nrcpts=1,
msgid=<47eed6660708301947g661c9557ocaeb52af48e48260 at mail.gmail.com>,
proto=ESMTP, daemon
=MTA-v4, relay=wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.180]
Aug 31 02:48:01 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]: l7V2lmww052010:
to=namedeleted2 at bus.umich.edu, delay=00:00:07, xdelay=00:00:02,
mailer=esmtp, pri=156118, relay=bus-ex02.bus.umich.edu.
[141.211.239.195], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (
<47eed6660708301947g661c9557ocaeb52af48e48260 at mail.gmail.com> Queued
mail for delivery)
Aug 31 02:48:02 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]: l7V2lmww052010:
to=namedeleted3 at Colorado.edu , delay=00:00:08
, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=esmtp, pri=156118, relay=mx10.colorado.edu.
[128.138.128.110], dsn=2.0.0, stat=
Sent (Ok: queued as 31AB7C4A4B0)
Aug 31 02:48:03 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]: l7V2lmww052010:
to=namedeleted4 at gmail.com, delay=00:00:09, x
delay=00:00:01, mailer=esmtp, pri=156118,
relay=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com. [64.233.167.27], dsn=2.0.0,
stat=Sent (OK 1188528483 a70si1963649pye)
Aug 31 02:48:04 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]: l7V2lmww052010:
to=fleckn at mail.lib.msu.edu, delay=00:00:10, x
delay=00:00:01, mailer=esmtp, pri=156118,
relay=mail1.mail.lib.msu.edu. [35.8.223.61], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (
<47eed6660708301947g661c9557ocaeb52af48e48260 at mail.gmail.com> Queued
mail for delivery)
Aug 31 02:48:22 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]:
l7V2lmww052010:to=namedeleted5 at oregonstate.edu, delay=00:00:28,
xdelay=00:00:18, mailer=esmtp, pri=156118,
relay=relay.oregonstate.edu. [128.193.15.33], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
(Ok: queued as 5D01C410AE6)

The handoff to mailman shows up and it appears in /qfiles/out
Aug 31 02:40:58 innopacusers sm-mta[51781]: l7V2ep7j051777:
to="|/usr/local/bin/stripmime.pl|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post
webguru" , ctladdr=<webguru at innopacusers.org> (26/0), delay=00:00:01,
xdelay=00:
00:01, mailer=prog, pri=31857, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent

> In fact, in a well running Mailman installation qfiles/out/ is normally
> empty except for the occasional entry you see for a second or so while
> it's waiting to be picked up. (In 2.1.9, it will remain longer as a
> *.bak file while it is being processed by
> OutgoingRunner/SMTPDirect.py.)
>
> If *.pck files are hanging around in qfiles/out/, either there is a
> backlog (probably due to a configuration issue if it persists), or
> there is some problem with OutgoingRunner.

This sounds like my problem. OutgoingRunner is running

mailman 40546  0.0  1.7 19204 17236  ??  S    11:11PM   0:01.49
/usr/local/bin/python2.4 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner
--runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s

I can easily buy that there's a config issue, but the strange thing is
that we were functional for years and all of a sudden quit working
(having said that, we have a hosted server, so it's conceivable
something was done to our machine -- it's happened before).

I don't understand how OutgoingRunner works -- any suggestions for
directions for me to explore in seeing if my sendmail or mailman
config is screwing things up? Thanks,

kyle

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Aug 31 05:57:30 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:57:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message received by mailman and archives,
	but won't deliver
In-Reply-To: <47eed6660708302010x334f5d5end3d08162402ccfe8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200708302057300875341c1589@msapiro>

Kyle Banerjee wrote:
>
>I've sent a few messages to the lists over the past couple hours. Here
>is what I'm seeing:
>
>1) The files are appearing almost immediately in qfiles/out/ where
>they seem to stay. Nothing is in retry or the other qfiles
>directories.
>
>2) Even a couple hours later, nothing shows up in post, smtp, or
>smtp-failure. However, someone who belonged to one of the lists sent
>one through. I found the entry
>
>Aug 31 02:18:53 2007 (40546)
><01F67337-E566-4AA4-B684-01C9E2F3F9FB at mac.com> smtp to innopac for
>2014 recips, completed in 11231.212 seconds
>
>The amount of time for the transaction seems insane. Load is
>practically nonexistent.


Your SMTP delivery to sendmail is incredibly slow. This is your entire
problem. Your out queue is hoplessly backlogged due to the time it is
taking to process SMTP. You will never catch up.

You need to make changes in sendmail. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=performance&querytype=simple&casefold=yes&req=search>,
particularly 4.11 and 6.3, and make sure you are not doing DNS
verifies on mail from Mailman.


>3) When I send a message to the list, maillog makes it look like
>everything happened. For example, if I send it to the list with 4
>people in it
>
>Aug 31 02:47:54 innopacusers sm-mta[52010]: l7V2lmww052010:
>from=<namedeleted at gmail.com>, size=5888, class=0, nrcpts=1,
>msgid=<47eed6660708301947g661c9557ocaeb52af48e48260 at mail.gmail.com>,
>proto=ESMTP, daemon
>=MTA-v4, relay=wa-out-1112.google.com [209.85.146.180]


This doesn't look like a message from Mailman. A message from a mailman
list will normally be from listname-bounces at example.com
(webguru-bounces at innopacusers.org in this case). And, if this came
from Mailman, there would be entries in Mailman's post and smtp logs.


>Aug 31 02:48:01 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]: l7V2lmww052010:
>to=namedeleted2 at bus.umich.edu, delay=00:00:07, xdelay=00:00:02,
>mailer=esmtp, pri=156118, relay=bus-ex02.bus.umich.edu.
>[141.211.239.195], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (
><47eed6660708301947g661c9557ocaeb52af48e48260 at mail.gmail.com> Queued
>mail for delivery)
>Aug 31 02:48:02 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]: l7V2lmww052010:
>to=namedeleted3 at Colorado.edu , delay=00:00:08
>, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=esmtp, pri=156118, relay=mx10.colorado.edu.
>[128.138.128.110], dsn=2.0.0, stat=
>Sent (Ok: queued as 31AB7C4A4B0)
>Aug 31 02:48:03 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]: l7V2lmww052010:
>to=namedeleted4 at gmail.com, delay=00:00:09, x
>delay=00:00:01, mailer=esmtp, pri=156118,
>relay=gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com. [64.233.167.27], dsn=2.0.0,
>stat=Sent (OK 1188528483 a70si1963649pye)
>Aug 31 02:48:04 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]: l7V2lmww052010:
>to=fleckn at mail.lib.msu.edu, delay=00:00:10, x
>delay=00:00:01, mailer=esmtp, pri=156118,
>relay=mail1.mail.lib.msu.edu. [35.8.223.61], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (
><47eed6660708301947g661c9557ocaeb52af48e48260 at mail.gmail.com> Queued
>mail for delivery)
>Aug 31 02:48:22 innopacusers sm-mta[52012]:
>l7V2lmww052010:to=namedeleted5 at oregonstate.edu, delay=00:00:28,
>xdelay=00:00:18, mailer=esmtp, pri=156118,
>relay=relay.oregonstate.edu. [128.193.15.33], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
>(Ok: queued as 5D01C410AE6)
>
>The handoff to mailman shows up and it appears in /qfiles/out
>Aug 31 02:40:58 innopacusers sm-mta[51781]: l7V2ep7j051777:
>to="|/usr/local/bin/stripmime.pl|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post
>webguru" , ctladdr=<webguru at innopacusers.org> (26/0), delay=00:00:01,
>xdelay=00:
>00:01, mailer=prog, pri=31857, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


Mailman can do content filtering with I think more control than
stripmime.pl


>> In fact, in a well running Mailman installation qfiles/out/ is normally
>> empty except for the occasional entry you see for a second or so while
>> it's waiting to be picked up. (In 2.1.9, it will remain longer as a
>> *.bak file while it is being processed by
>> OutgoingRunner/SMTPDirect.py.)
>>
>> If *.pck files are hanging around in qfiles/out/, either there is a
>> backlog (probably due to a configuration issue if it persists), or
>> there is some problem with OutgoingRunner.
>
>This sounds like my problem. OutgoingRunner is running
>
>mailman 40546  0.0  1.7 19204 17236  ??  S    11:11PM   0:01.49
>/usr/local/bin/python2.4 /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner
>--runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
>
>I can easily buy that there's a config issue, but the strange thing is
>that we were functional for years and all of a sudden quit working


What Mailman version is this?


>(having said that, we have a hosted server, so it's conceivable
>something was done to our machine -- it's happened before).
>
>I don't understand how OutgoingRunner works -- any suggestions for
>directions for me to explore in seeing if my sendmail or mailman
>config is screwing things up? Thanks,


OutgoingRunner picks up the oldest qfiles/out/*.pck file, gets the
message and metadata from it and passes them to SMTPDirect.py for
processing. When SMTPDirect.py returns, it picks up the next entry and
repeats until there are no entries left. Then it sleeps for
QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME (default 1 second) and looks for any new entries.

That's the basic flow assuming no errors or exceptions.

See the above FAQ articles.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Aug 31 06:39:33 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 23:39:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with new web host and "too many
 complaints"
In-Reply-To: <46D77BFA.6050803@nerds.net>
References: <46D77BFA.6050803@nerds.net>
Message-ID: <p06240800c2fd4b8e5b3a@[192.168.1.199]>

On 8/30/07, Jonathan Dill wrote:

>  Has anyone else run into a situation like this and have some practical
>  advice?  They have been asking me about technical ways to circumvent the
>  problem, but that sounds like a really bad idea to me for several
>  reasons, I don't want to be a party to that.  I'm wondering if they
>  should just say to heck with this hosting company, but the customer is
>  concerned that moving to yet another ISP is going to be just as painful
>  a process as it was moving to this one, and I am not entirely sure that
>  they wouldn't run into the same "complaint" problem with another host.

Well, you haven't really given us any real details as to the nature 
of the problem or the nature of the complaints.  So, I'm not sure 
that anyone can give you any advice that will be useful.

I can say that I'd expect to see more support from your new ISP, and 
if they're willing to treat you this way this soon after you 
switched, I have to wonder how they're going to treat you in the 
future.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>

From kyle.banerjee at gmail.com  Fri Aug 31 07:29:57 2007
From: kyle.banerjee at gmail.com (Kyle Banerjee)
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:29:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message received by mailman and archives,
	but won't deliver
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200708302057300875341c1589@msapiro>
References: <47eed6660708302010x334f5d5end3d08162402ccfe8@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200708302057300875341c1589@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47eed6660708302229i7c0d2c09v2db50e6fd4f0f2c1@mail.gmail.com>

> Your SMTP delivery to sendmail is incredibly slow. This is your entire
> problem. Your out queue is hoplessly backlogged due to the time it is
> taking to process SMTP. You will never catch up.
>
> You need to make changes in sendmail. See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=performance&querytype=simple&casefold=yes&req=search>,
> particularly 4.11 and 6.3, and make sure you are not doing DNS
> verifies on mail from Mailman.

Thanks for the tip -- this sounds like it's most likely what I need to
fix. I'll read up and see if I can't nail this.

> This doesn't look like a message from Mailman. A message from a mailman
> list will normally be from listname-bounces at example.com
> (webguru-bounces at innopacusers.org in this case). And, if this came
> from Mailman, there would be entries in Mailman's post and smtp logs.

Hmmm... It just so happens that this listname coincides with a former
alias that forwarded messages to the same people. The aliases file
looks OK, but I wonder if sendmail is getting the info from someplace
else. I need to test this process with a list that doesn't have this
issue.

> What Mailman version is this?

2.1.9

> OutgoingRunner picks up the oldest qfiles/out/*.pck file, gets the
> message and metadata from it and passes them to SMTPDirect.py for
> processing. When SMTPDirect.py returns, it picks up the next entry and
> repeats until there are no entries left. Then it sleeps for
> QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME (default 1 second) and looks for any new entries.
>
> That's the basic flow assuming no errors or exceptions.

Thanks for the info -- this helps me understand what's going on better.

kyle

From diane at wittygal.com  Fri Aug 31 12:01:17 2007
From: diane at wittygal.com (wittygal)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 03:01:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Thanks regarding my earlier issue about list limit
Message-ID: <00a301c7ebb5$e148efd0$a3dacf70$@com>

Thank you all to everyone who responded. Since I already owned a large
account on dreamhost. I started moving the hosting over there and the
accounts I have moved are working great now. Posts are flowing really fast.

Thanks again.


From jonathan at nerds.net  Fri Aug 31 14:29:32 2007
From: jonathan at nerds.net (Jonathan Dill)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 08:29:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with new web host and "too many
	complaints"
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c2fd4b8e5b3a@[192.168.1.199]>
References: <46D77BFA.6050803@nerds.net>
	<p06240800c2fd4b8e5b3a@[192.168.1.199]>
Message-ID: <46D809AC.1090609@nerds.net>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> Well, you haven't really given us any real details as to the nature of 
> the problem or the nature of the complaints.  So, I'm not sure that 
> anyone can give you any advice that will be useful.
>
> I can say that I'd expect to see more support from your new ISP, and 
> if they're willing to treat you this way this soon after you switched, 
> I have to wonder how they're going to treat you in the future.
First, I want to say thanks to Kyle Banerjee who responded off list with 
a lot of great advice.  To summarize the problem again, the complaints 
are really in response to the newsletter.  The web host in question has 
had some bad press lately, mainly with respect to being a major source 
of blog comment spam, so possibly they are overreacting to compensate.

In a nutshell, it is way too easy for people to sign up for the list, 
which is what I have been telling them all along, but unfortunately, 
they had to learn this the hard way.  They should include their phone 
number in the newsletter to give people another way to respond, since 
some people are paranoid about clicking on links in messages.  For 
CAN-SPAM compliance, they should also include their postal address, 
which they have not been doing.

Trying to find a technical solution to the problem, such as using a 
different domain name in the messages, is pretty much begging to have 
their account terminated altogether per AUP, especially since the host's 
AUP is incredibly vague with respect to spam--they pretty much get to 
dictate whether they think it's spam or not, including requiring to ask 
all of the subscribers to opt-in again or be removed from the list.

Jonathan

From justbrits at comcast.net  Fri Aug 31 15:42:14 2007
From: justbrits at comcast.net (JB@comcast)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 08:42:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for eachlist?
References: <p06240800c2fb31f369c2@[192.168.1.199]><PC17602007082908284102659e3b5992@msapiro>
	<003e01c7ea58$f977fb40$ec67f1c0$@com>
Message-ID: <06e701c7ebd4$bd8cbda0$6601a8c0@actualshop>

Wittygal:

Finally one I CAN assist with -:) !

I am 1 of their FIRST premium account and what you need is a Level 3 Tech and Stephen Trelz has been the one who assisted me.  You also HAVE to ask to have you outgoing usage opened up from 50/hr (SOP) to 500/hr.  It's the little things their FAQs don't say -:).

Also, the following is an excerpt from an announcement the Pres. sent out on 4/17/06 (spec. folder for ALL B.H. communications-:) ):
> On behalf of the development team, I'm pleased to announce the release
> of GNU Mailman 2.1.8.  In this release, we have fixed a cross-site
> scripting security bug in the previous release (CVE-2006-1712),
> integrated a new version of email library (email-2.5.7), and added
> bounce processing supports for number of sites and MUAs.  It is highly
> recommended that all sites using 2.1.7 and before should update to this
> release.

Regards...

Ed
www.justbrits.com

From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Fri Aug 31 21:23:55 2007
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 14:23:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with new web host and "too many
	complaints"
In-Reply-To: <46D77BFA.6050803@nerds.net>
References: <46D77BFA.6050803@nerds.net>
Message-ID: <74C0D7CB-BAE4-4619-B42E-7EEDCA9CE85F@goldmark.org>

On Aug 30, 2007, at 9:24 PM, Jonathan Dill wrote:

> I have a customer who has a fairly large opt-in only mailman mailing
> list (~40,000 subscribers) that they use to send out a weekly
> newsletter,

How was the "opt-in" done?  Was it done with Mailman's confirmation  
process, or  would it have been possible for person A to accidently  
or maliciously get person B on the list?  If the latter, I would  
consider the list mailing unacceptable.

> people seem to primarily subscribe for the weekly contest
> for free tickets to events.  Unsubscribe links are conspicuous, and
> people who otherwise complain are unsubscribed from the list.

A great deal of spam contains fake unsubscribe information.  Indeed  
following the "unsubscribe" information in spam often gets you "opted  
in" to more lists because you have proved (1) that a human actually  
reads the mail sent to that address, and (2) that the human who does  
read that mail is gullible.

> Recently, they moved their web hosting to a new service, and the new
> service shut down their website because they had received "too many
> complaints" about the newsletter, which mentions the website address.

Obviously there are "too many" members of the list who do not believe  
that they opted in to it.  Why might that be?

> I
> would have thought it would be easier to follow the unsubscribe link
> than track down the hosting company for the website, which makes me
> wonder if these "complaints" are being generated by some kind of
> antispam software.

You sound like someone defending "opt-out" mass mailing.  I've  
described above why people (correctly) avoid the opt-out instructions  
in what the think might be spam.

> The host forwarded a "sample" but stripped out some
> of the message headers, so all I can tell is that it really was in
> response to the newsletter.

This is normal practice to prevent the list managers from merely  
engaging in "list washing" (removing the complainers while continuing  
to send the spam to many people who never really wanted it but don't  
bother to complain.

> Now the web host is talking about requiring that all of the  
> subscribers
> be required to "opt in" again or be unsubscribed from the list--to be
> honest, that might not be a bad idea, but the customer wants to  
> avoid this.

That is a good idea.  This is really the only way your customer can  
continue with the mass mailing.  There may have been things that your  
customer might have done earlier to prevent this state of affairs,  
but at this point, what the hosting providers are suggesting is the  
only way forward, unless your customer can document how each address  
came to be added to the list with some evidence that the  person who  
reads mail at that addresses confirmed the process.

> Has anyone else run into a situation like this and have some practical
> advice?

I certainly have experience from the other end.  A few years ago some  
unknown person signed me up to scores of lists that didn't do proper  
confirmation.  Apparently, this bit of abuse is known as "list bombing".

> They have been asking me about technical ways to circumvent the
> problem, but that sounds like a really bad idea to me for several
> reasons,

Your customer will either have to

   (1) do what the hosting company says (and that can be done with  
mailman) or
   (2) prove that each address was added by the person behind that  
address or
   (3) close up shop or
   (4) find a spammer friendly hosting service.

-j



-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From jonathan at nerds.net  Fri Aug 31 22:50:57 2007
From: jonathan at nerds.net (Jonathan Dill)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 16:50:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with new web host and "too many
	complaints"
In-Reply-To: <74C0D7CB-BAE4-4619-B42E-7EEDCA9CE85F@goldmark.org>
References: <46D77BFA.6050803@nerds.net>
	<74C0D7CB-BAE4-4619-B42E-7EEDCA9CE85F@goldmark.org>
Message-ID: <46D87F31.1040000@nerds.net>

Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:
>
> How was the "opt-in" done?  Was it done with Mailman's confirmation 
> process, or  would it have been possible for person A to accidently or 
> maliciously get person B on the list?  If the latter, I would consider 
> the list mailing unacceptable.
If the list was hosted on one of our servers, we definitely would have 
refused to host the list under these conditions.  However, in this case 
they own the server, which is located at their own office, and they have 
asked me for advice as a consultant.  I have told them before that they 
should require confirmation and explained why they should do that.  
Sometimes, people have to learn things the hard way, nothing I can do 
about that.  However, sometimes it is helpful to have comments from 
other people and other sources that I can point to that corroborate what 
I have been telling them all along, "best practices" and all that.

My position at this point is "this is a policy issue, not a technical 
issue."  I have warned them that trying to sneak around the problem by 
technical means is just begging to have their account terminated as a 
violation of the TOS, and that moving to another hosting service is no 
guarantee that they won't run into the same objections again.
> That is a good idea.  This is really the only way your customer can 
> continue with the mass mailing.  There may have been things that your 
> customer might have done earlier to prevent this state of affairs, but 
> at this point, what the hosting providers are suggesting is the only 
> way forward, unless your customer can document how each address came 
> to be added to the list with some evidence that the  person who reads 
> mail at that addresses confirmed the process.
They do have a paper trail for some of the subscriptions from paper 
forms that people filled out at certain events, but I don't think the 
documentation has been maintained with the thought in mind that someday 
this could be "audited", but again, this is really a policy and clerical 
issue and not a technical issue.  Possibly, I could help them to find a 
solution to better manage the documentation, beyond that, it is really 
outside my scope of work.  I have managed several other lists for other 
customers on other servers (albeit much smaller than this uber list) all 
of those have required confirmation, have never run into to this type of 
problem with the other lists.

Jonathan

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Aug 31 23:12:45 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 16:12:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Limit to the Number of Subscribers for eachlist?
In-Reply-To: <06e701c7ebd4$bd8cbda0$6601a8c0@actualshop>
References: <p06240800c2fb31f369c2@[192.168.1.199]><PC17602007082908284102659e3b5992@msapiro>
	<003e01c7ea58$f977fb40$ec67f1c0$@com>
	<06e701c7ebd4$bd8cbda0$6601a8c0@actualshop>
Message-ID: <424E9B59-2BB2-443E-BF3A-6DA5104CF209@shub-internet.org>

Of course, the current version is 2.1.9, and, IIRC the reason we  
quickly moved up to that version was a security hole. And 2.1.10 is  
pretty close to release.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-Internet.org>

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 31, 2007, at 8:42 AM, "JB at comcast" <justbrits at comcast.net> wrote:

> Wittygal:
>
> Finally one I CAN assist with -:) !
>
> I am 1 of their FIRST premium account and what you need is a Level 3  
> Tech and Stephen Trelz has been the one who assisted me.  You also  
> HAVE to ask to have you outgoing usage opened up from 50/hr (SOP) to  
> 500/hr.  It's the little things their FAQs don't say -:).
>
> Also, the following is an excerpt from an announcement the Pres.  
> sent out on 4/17/06 (spec. folder for ALL B.H. communications-:) ):
>> On behalf of the development team, I'm pleased to announce the  
>> release
>> of GNU Mailman 2.1.8.  In this release, we have fixed a cross-site
>> scripting security bug in the previous release (CVE-2006-1712),
>> integrated a new version of email library (email-2.5.7), and added
>> bounce processing supports for number of sites and MUAs.  It is  
>> highly
>> recommended that all sites using 2.1.7 and before should update to  
>> this
>> release.
>
> Regards...
>
> Ed
> www.justbrits.com
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/brad%40shub-internet.org
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp