From linux at zamirfamily.com  Mon Apr  2 08:54:08 2007
From: linux at zamirfamily.com (Dov Zamir)
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 09:54:08 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Connection Refused" errors in smtp-failure
Message-ID: <4610A890.4070701@zamirfamily.com>

Hi all,

After trying everything in the Wiki, i got to the bottom where it says, 
if all else fails, ask the list, so here goes:


I have compiled mailman 2.1.9 from source on Fedora Core 6, using 
sendmail ver. 8.13.8.

Sendmail is working ccorrectly sending and receiving mail, and the 
aliases file has been updated with the aliases received through mailman.

Mailman accepts mail sent to it, and does everything it is supposed to, 
except sending mail. All mail gets errors similar to the follwing (all 
related to the same mail):

in post:
Apr 02 09:48:51 2007 (2950) post to mailman from 
mailman-owner at mail.deezed.com, size=2462, 
message-id=<mailman.1.1175392801.8059.mailman at mail.deezed.com>, 1 failures

in smtp:
Apr 02 09:48:51 2007 (2950) 
<mailman.1.1175392801.8059.mailman at mail.deezed.com> smtp to mailman for 
1 recips, completed in 0.005 seconds

in smtp-failure:
Apr 02 09:48:51 2007 (2950) delivery to dov at zamirfamily.com failed with 
code -1: (111, 'Connection refused')


There are no entries in error or in sendmail's log or in the system 
error log.


Any suggestions?
_________________________________________________________________________
This message has been scanned by Kibbutz Beit Kama's Anti Virus software,
and is believed to be clean of any viruses.
_________________________________________________________________________

From md6969 at gmail.com  Mon Apr  2 09:10:45 2007
From: md6969 at gmail.com (Martin Dennett)
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 08:10:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topics and senders
Message-ID: <4610AC75.1020901@gmail.com>

Hi

I have a topic set up which I use to be able to send to ALL members of 
the list, even if they choose to read on the web only (similar to the 
Yahoo Special Notices feature). However, if anyone replies to a mail 
that follows the rule, all members subscribed to the topic also receive 
those replies. Is there anyway I can amend the topic so that only mails 
from a moderator address are sent to the list, and not the replies?

Rgds

MD

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Apr  2 10:33:41 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 03:33:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topics and senders
In-Reply-To: <4610AC75.1020901@gmail.com>
References: <4610AC75.1020901@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240501c2367027cc55@[172.16.1.2]>

At 8:10 AM +0100 4/2/07, Martin Dennett wrote:

>  I have a topic set up which I use to be able to send to ALL members of
>  the list, even if they choose to read on the web only (similar to the
>  Yahoo Special Notices feature). However, if anyone replies to a mail
>  that follows the rule, all members subscribed to the topic also receive
>  those replies. Is there anyway I can amend the topic so that only mails
>  from a moderator address are sent to the list, and not the replies?

You can make everyone on the list moderated, so that only the 
moderator is allowed to post to the list, or is required to approve 
posts before they go through.

But there's no per-topic control over this sort of thing.  At least, 
not without making source-code modifications.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Apr  2 10:36:28 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 03:36:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Connection Refused" errors in smtp-failure
In-Reply-To: <4610A890.4070701@zamirfamily.com>
References: <4610A890.4070701@zamirfamily.com>
Message-ID: <p06240502c23670cef366@[172.16.1.2]>

At 9:54 AM +0300 4/2/07, Dov Zamir wrote:

>  After trying everything in the Wiki, i got to the bottom where it says,
>  if all else fails, ask the list, so here goes:

You mention the wiki, but you don't say anything about the FAQ 
Wizard.  Did you try everything mentioned in FAQ 3.14 (and related 
FAQs), as well as FAQ 4.73?

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From linux at zamirfamily.com  Mon Apr  2 11:06:42 2007
From: linux at zamirfamily.com (Dov Zamir)
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 12:06:42 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Connection Refused" errors in smtp-failure
In-Reply-To: <p06240502c23670cef366@[172.16.1.2]>
References: <4610A890.4070701@zamirfamily.com>
	<p06240502c23670cef366@[172.16.1.2]>
Message-ID: <4610C7A2.2090900@zamirfamily.com>

????? Brad Knowles:
> At 9:54 AM +0300 4/2/07, Dov Zamir wrote:
>
>> After trying everything in the Wiki, i got to the bottom where it says,
>> if all else fails, ask the list, so here goes:
>
> You mention the wiki, but you don't say anything about the FAQ Wizard. 
> Did you try everything mentioned in FAQ 3.14 (and related FAQs), as 
> well as FAQ 4.73?
>
Thanks. Didn't see FAQ 4.73 (but did 3.14). Added the debugging to 
SMTPdirect and found the eror message. There seems to be a IP4-IP6 
problem. Trying to fix it now...

From R.E.Sonneveld at sonnection.nl  Mon Apr  2 11:40:14 2007
From: R.E.Sonneveld at sonnection.nl (Rolf E. Sonneveld)
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 11:40:14 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Infamous error "ImportError: ld.so.1: python:
	fatal: libgcc_s.so.1"
Message-ID: <4610CF7E.8090309@sonnection.nl>

Hi,

I installed tcl/tk, Python and Mailman on a Solaris 10 system. 
Everything seems to install fine, I can use the command line interface 
to create a mailman list, set the site and delegate password etc. 
However, when I try to access Mailman via my browser (using Apache on 
the server side) I get the infamous error message:

[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] Traceback 
(most recent call last):
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]   File 
"/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 77, in run_main
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]     from 
Mailman.Logging.StampedLogger import StampedLogger
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]   File 
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py", line 18, in <module>
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]     import time
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] ImportError: 
ld.so.1: python: fatal: libgcc_s.so.1: open failed: No such file or 
directory

The Solaris 10 system info:

SunOS hostname 5.10 Generic_118833-24 sun4u sparc SUNW,UltraAX-i2

Versions installed:

tcl/tk: 8.4.14
Python: 2.5
Mailman: 2.1.9

All software was compiled from sources. The libgcc_s.so.1 lives in:

bash-3.00# find / -name libgcc_s.so.1
/usr/sfw/lib/sparcv9/libgcc_s.so.1
/usr/sfw/lib/libgcc_s.so.1
/usr/local/lib/libgcc_s.so.1
/usr/local/lib/sparcv9/libgcc_s.so.1

The /usr/local/lib version seems to be more recent. Before installation, 
I made sure that LD_LIBRARY_PATH was set to 
/lib:/usr/lib:/usr/local/lib:/usr/share/lib and I compiled using 
LDFLAGS="-L/usr/local/lib". I also added this directory to the 
LD_LIBRARY_PATH for apache in the file: /usr/local/apache/bin/envvars:

LD_LIBRARY_PATH="/usr/local/apache/lib:/usr/local/lib:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH"
export LD_LIBRARY_PATH

Stopped and started apache, to make sure it would get the right 
environment variables.

As 'python' was present in the error message, I did an ldd of python. It 
shows:

bash-3.00# ldd /usr/local/python/bin/python
        libresolv.so.2 =>        /lib/libresolv.so.2
        libsocket.so.1 =>        /lib/libsocket.so.1
        libnsl.so.1 =>   /lib/libnsl.so.1
        librt.so.1 =>    /lib/librt.so.1
        libdl.so.1 =>    /lib/libdl.so.1
        libm.so.2 =>     /lib/libm.so.2
        libc.so.1 =>     /lib/libc.so.1
        libmp.so.2 =>    /lib/libmp.so.2
        libmd5.so.1 =>   /lib/libmd5.so.1
        libscf.so.1 =>   /lib/libscf.so.1
        libaio.so.1 =>   /lib/libaio.so.1
        libdoor.so.1 =>  /lib/libdoor.so.1
        libuutil.so.1 =>         /lib/libuutil.so.1
        /platform/SUNW,UltraAX-i2/lib/libc_psr.so.1
        /platform/SUNW,UltraAX-i2/lib/libmd5_psr.so.1

When I visit the page http://hostname/mailman/admin I get:

<quote>


    Bug in Mailman version 2.1.9


      We're sorry, we hit a bug!

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of 
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, 
but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.
</quote>

The traceback information can be found from the Apache log file and the 
complete log shows:

[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] [----- Mailman 
Version: 2.1.9 -----]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] [----- 
Traceback ------]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] Traceback 
(most recent call last):
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]   File 
"/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line

77, in run_main
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]     from 
Mailman.Logging.StampedLogger import

StampedLogger
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]   File

"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py", line 18, in <module>
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]     import time
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] ImportError: 
ld.so.1: python: fatal: libgcc_s.so.1:

open failed: No such file or directory
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] [----- Python 
Information -----]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] sys.version     =
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] 2.5 
(r25:51908, Apr  2 2007, 10:26:44)
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] [GCC 3.4.6]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] sys.executable  =
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] 
/usr/local/python/bin/python
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] sys.prefix      =
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] /usr/local/python
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] sys.exec_prefix =
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] /usr/local/python
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] sys.path        =
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] /usr/local/python
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] sys.platform    =
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] sunos5
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] [----- 
Environment Variables -----]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] 
\tSERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/2.2.3 (Unix)
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] \tSCRIPT_NAME: 
/mailman/admin
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] 
\tSERVER_SIGNATURE:
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] 
\tREQUEST_METHOD: GET
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] 
\tHTTP_KEEP_ALIVE: 300
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] 
\tSERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] \tQUERY_STRING:
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] 
\tHTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET:

ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] 
\tHTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows

NT 5.1; nl; rv:1.8.1.3) Gecko/20070309 Firefox/2.0.0.3
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] \tTZ: MET
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] \tSERVER_NAME: 
hostname.domain.com
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] \tREMOTE_ADDR: 
192.168.10.10
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] \tSERVER_PORT: 80
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] \tSERVER_ADDR: 
192.168.10.20
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] 
\tDOCUMENT_ROOT: /usr/local/apache/htdocs
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] \tPYTHONPATH: 
/usr/local/mailman
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] 
\tSCRIPT_FILENAME: /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/admin
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] 
\tSERVER_ADMIN: unix_operations at domain.com
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] \tHTTP_HOST: 
hostname.domain.com
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] 
\tHTTP_CONNECTION: keep-alive
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] \tREQUEST_URI: 
/mailman/admin
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] \tHTTP_ACCEPT:

text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] 
\tGATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] \tREMOTE_PORT: 
4655
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] 
\tHTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: nl,en-us;q=0.7,en;q=0.3
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10] 
\tHTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip,deflate
[Mon Apr 02 11:07:06 2007] [error] [client 192.168.10.10]

Any help greatly appreciated!

/rolf










From linux at zamirfamily.com  Mon Apr  2 12:59:59 2007
From: linux at zamirfamily.com (Dov Zamir)
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 13:59:59 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Connection Refused" errors in smtp-failure
In-Reply-To: <4610C7A2.2090900@zamirfamily.com>
References: <4610A890.4070701@zamirfamily.com>	<p06240502c23670cef366@[172.16.1.2]>
	<4610C7A2.2090900@zamirfamily.com>
Message-ID: <4610E22F.9020103@zamirfamily.com>

????? Dov Zamir:
> ????? Brad Knowles:
>   
>> At 9:54 AM +0300 4/2/07, Dov Zamir wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> After trying everything in the Wiki, i got to the bottom where it says,
>>> if all else fails, ask the list, so here goes:
>>>       
>> You mention the wiki, but you don't say anything about the FAQ Wizard. 
>> Did you try everything mentioned in FAQ 3.14 (and related FAQs), as 
>> well as FAQ 4.73?
>>
>>     
> Thanks. Didn't see FAQ 4.73 (but did 3.14). Added the debugging to 
> SMTPdirect and found the eror message. There seems to be a IP4-IP6 
> problem. Trying to fix it now...
>   
The problem is an inability to connect to 'localhost'. I added the host 
ip address to mm_cfg.py and solved th problem.
Now I'm trying to figure out why I can't access localhost on port 25.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/linux%40zamirfamily.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>
>
> !DSPAM:506,4610ca2c93101804284693!
>   

_________________________________________________________________________
This message has been scanned by Kibbutz Beit Kama's Anti Virus software,
and is believed to be clean of any viruses.
_________________________________________________________________________

From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Mon Apr  2 13:12:51 2007
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 06:12:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Connection Refused" errors in smtp-failure
In-Reply-To: <4610E22F.9020103@zamirfamily.com>
Message-ID: <C2364F63.3BEB1%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 4/2/07 5:59 AM, Dov Zamir at linux at zamirfamily.com wrote:

> The problem is an inability
> to connect to 'localhost'. I added the host 
ip address to mm_cfg.py and
> solved th problem.
Now I'm trying to figure out why I can't access localhost
> on port 25.


Is sendmail configured to listen on localhost (127.0.0.1) as well the host's
TCP/IP address. I'm have very little sendmail experience (and what I have is
years ago) but I know for some of the other MTAs you must explicitly
configure it to listen to localhost separately from the outside TCP/IP
address.

-- 
Larry Stone
lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/



From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Mon Apr  2 13:58:25 2007
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 20:58:25 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Infamous error "ImportError: ld.so.1: python:
 fatal: libgcc_s.so.1"
In-Reply-To: <4610CF7E.8090309@sonnection.nl>
References: <4610CF7E.8090309@sonnection.nl>
Message-ID: <4610EFE1.2000107@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>


> However, when I try to access Mailman via my browser (using Apache on 
> the server side) I get the infamous error message:

> The /usr/local/lib version seems to be more recent. Before installation, 
> I made sure that LD_LIBRARY_PATH was set to 

So, the apache was not running under LD_LIBRARY_PATH envrironment.  You 
should setenv LD_RUN_PATH while compiling or use crle.  Read the crle 
man for detail.

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/

From R.E.Sonneveld at sonnection.nl  Mon Apr  2 14:13:29 2007
From: R.E.Sonneveld at sonnection.nl (Rolf E. Sonneveld)
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 14:13:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Infamous error "ImportError: ld.so.1: python:
 fatal: libgcc_s.so.1"
In-Reply-To: <4610EFE1.2000107@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <4610CF7E.8090309@sonnection.nl>
	<4610EFE1.2000107@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <4610F369.6020502@sonnection.nl>

Dear Tokio,

first of all, thanks for your reply.

Tokio Kikuchi schreef:
>
>> However, when I try to access Mailman via my browser (using Apache on 
>> the server side) I get the infamous error message:
>
>> The /usr/local/lib version seems to be more recent. Before 
>> installation, I made sure that LD_LIBRARY_PATH was set to 
>
> So, the apache was not running under LD_LIBRARY_PATH envrironment.  
> You should setenv LD_RUN_PATH while compiling or use crle.  Read the 
> crle man for detail.

I forgot to mention that: before I compiled Python and Mailman, I 
changed the crle from:

Configuration file [version 4]: /var/ld/ld.config
  Default Library Path (ELF):   /lib:/usr/lib  (system default)
  Trusted Directories (ELF):    /usr/lib/secure:/opt/SUNWmsgsr/lib

into:

Configuration file [version 4]: /var/ld/ld.config
  Default Library Path (ELF):   /lib:/usr/lib  (system default)
  Trusted Directories (ELF):    
/usr/lib/secure:/opt/SUNWmsgsr/lib:/usr/local/lib

Then I rebooted the system and only after that was done, I started 
compiling. However, Apache was compiled under the old crle settings. Do 
you mean I should recompile Apache?

/rolf

From linux at zamirfamily.com  Mon Apr  2 14:29:41 2007
From: linux at zamirfamily.com (Dov Zamir)
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 15:29:41 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Connection Refused" errors in smtp-failure
In-Reply-To: <C2364F63.3BEB1%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
References: <C2364F63.3BEB1%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <4610F735.8000405@zamirfamily.com>

????? Larry Stone:
> On 4/2/07 5:59 AM, Dov Zamir at linux at zamirfamily.com wrote:
>
>   
>> The problem is an inability
>> to connect to 'localhost'. I added the host 
>>     
> ip address to mm_cfg.py and
>   
>> solved th problem.
>>     
> Now I'm trying to figure out why I can't access localhost
>   
>> on port 25.
>>     
>
>
> Is sendmail configured to listen on localhost (127.0.0.1) as well the host's
> TCP/IP address. I'm have very little sendmail experience (and what I have is
> years ago) but I know for some of the other MTAs you must explicitly
> configure it to listen to localhost separately from the outside TCP/IP
> address.
>
>   
Sendmail is configured to listen on all addresses, this should include 
the localhost address. This server (my test server) is supposedly 
configured identical to my production machines, which all accept 
connects just fine. I'm sure it is a very simple overlook on my side, 
but I can;t find it!
_________________________________________________________________________
This message has been scanned by Kibbutz Beit Kama's Anti Virus software,
and is believed to be clean of any viruses.
_________________________________________________________________________

From R.E.Sonneveld at sonnection.nl  Mon Apr  2 14:59:30 2007
From: R.E.Sonneveld at sonnection.nl (Rolf E. Sonneveld)
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 14:59:30 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Infamous error "ImportError: ld.so.1: python:
 fatal: libgcc_s.so.1" (followup)
In-Reply-To: <4610EFE1.2000107@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <4610CF7E.8090309@sonnection.nl>
	<4610EFE1.2000107@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <4610FE32.8060404@sonnection.nl>

Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
>> However, when I try to access Mailman via my browser (using Apache on 
>> the server side) I get the infamous error message:
>>     
>
>   
>> The /usr/local/lib version seems to be more recent. Before installation, 
>> I made sure that LD_LIBRARY_PATH was set to 
>>     
>
> So, the apache was not running under LD_LIBRARY_PATH envrironment.  You 
> should setenv LD_RUN_PATH while compiling or use crle.  Read the crle 
> man for detail.
>   

as a followup to my previous message: I just did a ldd for httpd and 
this is the result:

bash-3.00# ldd /usr/local/apache/bin/httpd
        libm.so.2 =>     /lib/libm.so.2
        libaprutil-1.so.0 =>     /usr/local/apache/lib/libaprutil-1.so.0
        libexpat.so.0 =>         /usr/local/apache/lib/libexpat.so.0
        libiconv.so.2 =>         /usr/local/lib/libiconv.so.2
        libapr-1.so.0 =>         /usr/local/apache/lib/libapr-1.so.0
        libuuid.so.1 =>  /lib/libuuid.so.1
        libsendfile.so.1 =>      /lib/libsendfile.so.1
        librt.so.1 =>    /lib/librt.so.1
        libsocket.so.1 =>        /lib/libsocket.so.1
        libnsl.so.1 =>   /lib/libnsl.so.1
        libpthread.so.1 =>       /lib/libpthread.so.1
        libc.so.1 =>     /lib/libc.so.1
        libgcc_s.so.1 =>         /usr/local/lib/libgcc_s.so.1
        libaio.so.1 =>   /lib/libaio.so.1
        libmd5.so.1 =>   /lib/libmd5.so.1
        libmp.so.2 =>    /lib/libmp.so.2
        libscf.so.1 =>   /lib/libscf.so.1
        libdoor.so.1 =>  /lib/libdoor.so.1
        libuutil.so.1 =>         /lib/libuutil.so.1
        /platform/SUNW,UltraAX-i2/lib/libc_psr.so.1
        /platform/SUNW,UltraAX-i2/lib/libmd5_psr.so.1


So here libgcc_s.so.1 seems to be fine too. Or?

Regards,
/rolf

From dave at ddwsvcs.com  Mon Apr  2 17:20:42 2007
From: dave at ddwsvcs.com (David Devereaux-Weber)
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 10:20:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Installing Mailman 2.1.9 on
	Solaris 10
In-Reply-To: <200703260405.l2Q45UxE009692@julie.lostwells.net>
References: <200703260405.l2Q45UxE009692@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <46111F4A.7020307@ddwsvcs.com>

Hank,

Thanks for your help!

I installed Python 2.4.4.  I did receive errors that tcl and something 
else didn't install.  Now, the Mailman install script still finds 
/opt/csw/lib/python2.3/distutils/dist.py:213 .  Can you tell me where 
Python 2.4.4 puts the distutils?

Dave

vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:
> The esteemed David Devereaux-Weber has said:
>   
>> I'm having a problem with building mailman 2.1.9 on Solaris 10.  No problems with configure or make, but make install breaks.
>>
>> Here is an extract:
>>
>> /opt/csw/lib/python2.3/distutils/dist.py:213: 
>>     
>
> There's your problem.
>   
>> Does anyone see something here?
>>
>>     
> You're using the wrong Python.  I don't know where you got this Python
> (/opt/csw is not a Solaris 10 directory), but it's behaving the same
> as the Python 2.3 that is in the Solaris 10 distribution installed in
> /usr/sfw.  My recollection is that /opt/csw is being used by one or
> more prebuilt services who have religious tabus about using
> /usr/local, and presume you've downloaded a prebuilt Python package
> and installed it.  
>
> Download the Python 2.4.4 source (not 2.5 or later), configure, and
> build that.  It will not build completely, but what doesn't build
> (tcl and the ssl functions) isn't needed for Mailman.  Solaris 10
> comes with gcc 3.4.2 in /usr/sfw/bin, which can be used to build both
> Python and Mailman.  
>
> When you've got Python 2.4.4 built and installed, use "which python"
> to make sure it's the first one in your path.  
> /usr/local/bin/python
>
> Also, on a Solaris system (all versions), I strongly recommend
> renaming /usr/ucb/cc to something else so that configure scripts don't
> think the system has a working cc.  That particular cc is a shell
> script stub that is there for historical reasons dating from the
> original SVR4 specification in 1988.  
>
> If you have downloaded and installed the Sun development system
> (Studio 11 is the current marketing name for it) that installs by
> default in /opt/SUNWspro, use that cc and CC instead of the GNU stuff.
> Note that you'll have to force the configure scripts not to use gcc
> when you run them.  
>
> Hank 
>
>   

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr  2 17:23:23 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 08:23:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topics and senders
In-Reply-To: <p06240501c2367027cc55@[172.16.1.2]>
Message-ID: <PC17602007040208232302810669fd70@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 8:10 AM +0100 4/2/07, Martin Dennett wrote:
>
>>  Is there anyway I can amend the topic so that only mails
>>  from a moderator address are sent to the list, and not the replies?
>
>But there's no per-topic control over this sort of thing.  At least, 
>not without making source-code modifications.


But there is a better way. Include a header in the post

Urgent: <password>

where <password> is the list admin or moderator password and the post
will be sent to all list members regardless of topic filters, delivery
status or regular/digest.

Note that this must be a message header. putting it in the body will
only result in the password being sent to the list.

Martin used Thunderbird to send the OP. See
<http://kb.mozillazine.org/Custom_headers> for information on adding
custom headers with Thunderbird, and if you need additional help, see
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-February/055732.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cwieland at uci.edu  Mon Apr  2 19:54:49 2007
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 10:54:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <17E785BB-4D5C-4EB5-AAAF-CAC942532879@uci.edu>

I have found the following bad address using ./find_member -l sscm-l  
"[^\w\-+ at .%]":

constance.frei^M
constance.frei at lettres.unige.ch found in:
      sscm-l

On the web page the address appears as:

constance.frei constance.frei at lettres.unige.ch

when using list_members <listname> I get

constance.frei
constance.frei at lettres.unige.ch

  have tried using the examples in the FAQ "3.13. How do I remove a  
user name or email address with an illegal character in it?" to remove:

constance.fre
constance.frei^M
constance.frei constance.frei at lettres.unige.ch
constance.frei^Mconstance.frei at lettres.unige.ch

All produced errors.
Any help would be appreciated

Con Wieland
Network and Academic Computing Services
University of California at Irvine

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Apr  2 20:21:25 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 13:21:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <17E785BB-4D5C-4EB5-AAAF-CAC942532879@uci.edu>
References: <17E785BB-4D5C-4EB5-AAAF-CAC942532879@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00704021121u57d582d5j5d35d5ac42020e38@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/2/07, Con Wieland <cwieland at uci.edu> wrote:
> I have found the following bad address using ./find_member -l sscm-l
> "[^\w\-+ at .%]":
>
> constance.frei^M
> constance.frei at lettres.unige.ch found in:
>       sscm-l
'^M' is the control character for a carriage return. With bash, doing:
~$ foo '
 > '

will let you type a literal carriage return. This is :
(1) Type your command
(2) Type a single quote ( ' )
(3) Type anything before the line break
(4) Press enter, as if you were going to execute the command
(5) Bash gives you the '> ' prompt; type anything after the line break
(6) Type the closing single quote ( ' )
(7) Press enter, or type in more arguments.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr  2 20:32:37 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 11:32:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing member with <CR> in key - was:(no
	subject)
In-Reply-To: <17E785BB-4D5C-4EB5-AAAF-CAC942532879@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602007040211323702508ea337bf@msapiro>

Con Wieland wrote:

>I have found the following bad address using ./find_member -l sscm-l  
>"[^\w\-+ at .%]":
>
>constance.frei^M
>constance.frei at lettres.unige.ch found in:
>      sscm-l
>
>On the web page the address appears as:
>
>constance.frei constance.frei at lettres.unige.ch
>
>when using list_members <listname> I get
>
>constance.frei
>constance.frei at lettres.unige.ch
>
>  have tried using the examples in the FAQ "3.13. How do I remove a  
>user name or email address with an illegal character in it?" to remove:
>
>constance.fre
>constance.frei^M
>constance.frei constance.frei at lettres.unige.ch
>constance.frei^Mconstance.frei at lettres.unige.ch
>
>All produced errors.
>Any help would be appreciated


First, did you see and try the following from FAQ 3.13

----------------------------------------------------

Before trying the method(s) below, first try

 % bin/list_members -i listname

If that lists the addresses you want removed, try

 % bin/list_members -i listname | bin/remove_members -f - listname

----------------------------------------------------

If that doesn't work, try the following withlist fragment

 >>> m.removeMember("""constance.frei
 ... constance.frei at lettres.unige.ch""")
 >>> m.Save()
 >>> ^D

and if that doesn't work, try

 >>> del m.members["""constance.frei
 ... constance.frei at lettres.unige.ch"""]
 >>> m.Save()
 >>> ^D

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Mon Apr  2 20:55:55 2007
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 13:55:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting users to confirm
Message-ID: <A73BC7A3-6D4A-44C9-87DC-53DE0BE41BF6@goldmark.org>

I run list for some very non-technical users, with my site being  
their only experience with any MLM system for many of them.

The single biggest problem that I have is that users fail to  
recognize that they need to act on confirmation requests.  As far as  
I can tell, they treat the confirmation request as an actual  
confirmation that everything is done.

Where would I go about changing the subject line of the confirmation  
requests, and what would people recommend.

Am I the only experiencing this?  I believe that I've made things  
clear to users on my static pages

   http://lists.shepard-families.org/

and in all of the administrative messages I send to the list.  But  
this just doesn't seem to be enough.

Also is there a way to get a listing of all things pending  
confirmation (not just subscriptions, but address changes as well)?

-j

-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From michael_shanti at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  2 20:49:56 2007
From: michael_shanti at yahoo.com (Michael Hodgson)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 11:49:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Do I need to be on this list to be on other lists?
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00704021121u57d582d5j5d35d5ac42020e38@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20070402184956.35629.qmail@web52002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I am trying to get on the "new-imc" list, but somehow I got here, and so far have not gotten emails from that email list. Can anyone help me? I don't think I belong here :p

Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:  On 4/2/07, Con Wieland wrote:
> I have found the following bad address using ./find_member -l sscm-l
> "[^\w\-+ at .%]":
>
> constance.frei^M
> constance.frei at lettres.unige.ch found in:
> sscm-l
'^M' is the control character for a carriage return. With bash, doing:
~$ foo '
> '

will let you type a literal carriage return. This is :
(1) Type your command
(2) Type a single quote ( ' )
(3) Type anything before the line break
(4) Press enter, as if you were going to execute the command
(5) Bash gives you the '> ' prompt; type anything after the line break
(6) Type the closing single quote ( ' )
(7) Press enter, or type in more arguments.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/michael_shanti%40yahoo.com

Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp






Better to ask forgiveness than permission.

 
---------------------------------
No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go 
with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started.

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr  2 21:11:04 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 12:11:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Do I need to be on this list to be on other
	lists?
In-Reply-To: <20070402184956.35629.qmail@web52002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070402121104042166b660a9@msapiro>

Michael Hodgson wrote:

>I am trying to get on the "new-imc" list, but somehow I got here, and so far have not gotten emails from that email list. Can anyone help me? I don't think I belong here :p


No, you don't need to be on this list. To unsubscribe, send an email to
mailman-users-unsubscribe at python.org.

We have no information about the "new-imc" list which presumably uses
Mailman software, but otherwise seems to have no connection to the
Mailman project or python.org.

You may find the List Member Manual at
<http://www.list.org/mailman-member/index.html> to be helpful.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From cwieland at uci.edu  Mon Apr  2 21:25:04 2007
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 12:25:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing member with <CR> in key - was:(no
	subject)
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007040211323702508ea337bf@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007040211323702508ea337bf@msapiro>
Message-ID: <D059F4F2-473D-4545-BE7A-7BCCB78E391F@uci.edu>


On Apr 2, 2007, at 11:32 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Con Wieland wrote:
>
>> I have found the following bad address using ./find_member -l sscm-l
>> "[^\w\-+ at .%]":
>>
>> constance.frei^M
>> constance.frei at lettres.unige.ch found in:
>>      sscm-l
>>
>> On the web page the address appears as:
>>
>> constance.frei constance.frei at lettres.unige.ch
>>
>> when using list_members <listname> I get
>>
>> constance.frei
>> constance.frei at lettres.unige.ch
>>
>>  have tried using the examples in the FAQ "3.13. How do I remove a
>> user name or email address with an illegal character in it?" to  
>> remove:
>>
>> constance.fre
>> constance.frei^M
>> constance.frei constance.frei at lettres.unige.ch
>> constance.frei^Mconstance.frei at lettres.unige.ch
>>
>> All produced errors.
>> Any help would be appreciated
>
>
> First, did you see and try the following from FAQ 3.13
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Before trying the method(s) below, first try
>
>  % bin/list_members -i listname
>
> If that lists the addresses you want removed, try
>
>  % bin/list_members -i listname | bin/remove_members -f - listname

Yes I did, it didn't show up that way.

>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> If that doesn't work, try the following withlist fragment
>
>>>> m.removeMember("""constance.frei
>  ... constance.frei at lettres.unige.ch""")
>>>> m.Save()
>>>> ^D
>

I get this error:

 >>> m.removeMember("""constance.frei
... constance.frei at lettres.unige.ch""")
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<console>", line 1, in ?
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line  
219, in removeMember
     assert self.__mlist.Locked()
AssertionError


> and if that doesn't work, try
>
>>>> del m.members["""constance.frei
>  ... constance.frei at lettres.unige.ch"""]
>>>> m.Save()
>>>> ^D

and with this I get:

 >>> del m.members["""constance.frei
... constance.frei at lettres.unige.ch"""]
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "<console>", line 1, in ?
KeyError: 'constance.frei\nconstance.frei at lettres.unige.ch'



>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

Con Wieland
University of California at Irvine
Network and Academic Computing
Network and Support Programming

cwieland at uci.edu
949.824.6134
949.824.2270 fax


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr  2 21:39:49 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 12:39:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting users to confirm
In-Reply-To: <A73BC7A3-6D4A-44C9-87DC-53DE0BE41BF6@goldmark.org>
Message-ID: <PC176020070402123949057882249993@msapiro>

Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:
>
>Where would I go about changing the subject line of the confirmation  
>requests, and what would people recommend.


You may have already done this, but if the subject you are seeing is
"confirm <hex token>", You can change it to "Your confirmation is
required to join the %(listname)s mailing list" by setting

VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes

in mm_cfg.py, assuming your MTA can handle the VERP like address in the
reply.

If you have done this, and you are asking about changing the "Your
confirmation is required to join the %(listname)s mailing list"
subject, this requires patching the text in the
GetConfirmJoinSubject() definition in Mailman/MailList.py.

You can also edit the body of the message by making an edited version
of the verify.txt template. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>.


>Am I the only experiencing this?  I believe that I've made things  
>clear to users on my static pages
>
>   http://lists.shepard-families.org/
>
>and in all of the administrative messages I send to the list.  But  
>this just doesn't seem to be enough.
>
>Also is there a way to get a listing of all things pending  
>confirmation (not just subscriptions, but address changes as well)?


bin/dumpdb lists/<listname>/pending.pck

will show them, albeit in a cryptic form. Also, it shows some that are
expired so you have to look at the timestamps in the 'evictions'
dictionary.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr  2 22:05:06 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 13:05:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing member with <CR> in key - was:(no
	subject)
In-Reply-To: <D059F4F2-473D-4545-BE7A-7BCCB78E391F@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704021305060046028aaf14@msapiro>

Con Wieland wrote:
>
>On Apr 2, 2007, at 11:32 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> First, did you see and try the following from FAQ 3.13
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Before trying the method(s) below, first try
>>
>>  % bin/list_members -i listname
>>
>> If that lists the addresses you want removed, try
>>
>>  % bin/list_members -i listname | bin/remove_members -f - listname
>
>Yes I did, it didn't show up that way.


OK.


>> If that doesn't work, try the following withlist fragment
>>
>>>>> m.removeMember("""constance.frei
>>  ... constance.frei at lettres.unige.ch""")
>>>>> m.Save()
>>>>> ^D
>>
>
>I get this error:
>
> >>> m.removeMember("""constance.frei
>... constance.frei at lettres.unige.ch""")
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<console>", line 1, in ?
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line  
>219, in removeMember
>     assert self.__mlist.Locked()
>AssertionError


Because you didn't specify the -l (or --lock) option on the withlist
command.


>> and if that doesn't work, try
>>
>>>>> del m.members["""constance.frei
>>  ... constance.frei at lettres.unige.ch"""]
>>>>> m.Save()
>>>>> ^D
>
>and with this I get:
>
> >>> del m.members["""constance.frei
>... constance.frei at lettres.unige.ch"""]
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "<console>", line 1, in ?
>KeyError: 'constance.frei\nconstance.frei at lettres.unige.ch'


Is this invalid member a regular member, or a digest member? If digest,
the above needs to be

 >>> del m.digest_members["""constance.frei
 ... constance.frei at lettres.unige.ch"""]

BUT you should first try the removeMember() method with the list locked.

If none of these work, there something transparent in the key beyond
just the simple new-line. Try

% bin/find_member -l listname "[^\w\-+ at .%]" | od -t c to see what
besides \n is in 'constance.frei\nconstance.frei at lettres.unige.ch'.

Possibly it is '\r' instead of '\n', in which case, try

>>> m.removeMember('constance.frei\rconstance.frei at lettres.unige.ch')

in withlist with the list locked.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Neven.Luetic at hanse.net  Mon Apr  2 22:04:33 2007
From: Neven.Luetic at hanse.net (Neven Luetic)
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 22:04:33 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] group mismatch error with postfix
Message-ID: <1175544273.5334.59.camel@linuxpc.lune>

Hello,

when I send mail a mailinglist using mailman 2.1.5 and postfix 2.1.5 on
a debian sarge system I get:

Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
wrapper script to be executed as group "list", but
the system's mail server executed the mail script as
group "root".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the
script as group "list", or re-run configure, 
providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=root'.

I read the FAQ, and the hints about file ownership of the mailman
aliases file in combination with postfix. It is set correctly to user
and owner "list" and 660:
-rw-rw----  1 list list 6,7K 2006-09-18 16:37 aliases
-rw-rw----  1 list list  12K 2006-09-18 16:37 aliases.db

Then I tried to install mailman from source giving --with-mail-gid=list
in case some other file is involved, but that didn't help either.

The wrapper-script has ownership root:list and guid bit set:
-rwxr-xr-x  1 root list 6,5K 2006-09-20 14:19 mailman

I just started using mailman, but I believe to have configured
everything as required by the documentation.

What else could be the problem?

Greetings 

Neven



From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Mon Apr  2 22:32:48 2007
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 15:32:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting users to confirm
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070402123949057882249993@msapiro>
References: <PC176020070402123949057882249993@msapiro>
Message-ID: <B6E105D7-7FF2-411C-A993-402E7F0453D9@goldmark.org>

[mailed and posted]

On Apr 2, 2007, at 2:39 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:
>>
>> Where would I go about changing the subject line of the confirmation
>> requests, and what would people recommend.
>
>
> You may have already done this, but if the subject you are seeing is
> "confirm <hex token>", You can change it to "Your confirmation is
> required to join the %(listname)s mailing list" by setting
>
> VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes
>
> in mm_cfg.py, assuming your MTA can handle the VERP like address in  
> the
> reply.

Great.  That does exactly what I want.  I believe that I've already  
set up postfix to do the right thing with "username+something"  
addresses.  Yes. I've just tested and it works like a charm.

>> Also is there a way to get a listing of all things pending
>> confirmation (not just subscriptions, but address changes as well)?
>
>
> bin/dumpdb lists/<listname>/pending.pck
>
> will show them, albeit in a cryptic form.

Thanks that works.

> Also, it shows some that are
> expired so you have to look at the timestamps in the 'evictions'
> dictionary.

Where do I find the evictions dictionary?  And how do I query it?

   find /usr/local/mailman -name "evict*" -ls

turned up nothing.  (In my set-up, FreeBSD, the stuff that's  
typically in /var/lib/mailman is under /usr/local/mailman)

Cheers,

-j


-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr  2 22:34:09 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 13:34:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing member with <CR> in key -
	was:(nosubject)
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200704021305060046028aaf14@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC176020070402133409035904ead210@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>If none of these work, there something transparent in the key beyond
>just the simple new-line. Try
>
>% bin/find_member -l listname "[^\w\-+ at .%]" | od -t c to see what
>besides \n is in 'constance.frei\nconstance.frei at lettres.unige.ch'.


Just in case it's difficult to distinguish the command from the rest of
the above, the command is

 bin/find_member -l listname "[^\w\-+ at .%]" | od -t c

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr  2 22:45:05 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 13:45:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] group mismatch error with postfix
In-Reply-To: <1175544273.5334.59.camel@linuxpc.lune>
Message-ID: <PC176020070402134505092199856c1e@msapiro>

Neven Luetic wrote:
>
>Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
>wrapper script to be executed as group "list", but
>the system's mail server executed the mail script as
>group "root".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the
>script as group "list", or re-run configure, 
>providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=root'.
>
>I read the FAQ, and the hints about file ownership of the mailman
>aliases file in combination with postfix. It is set correctly to user
>and owner "list" and 660:
>-rw-rw----  1 list list 6,7K 2006-09-18 16:37 aliases
>-rw-rw----  1 list list  12K 2006-09-18 16:37 aliases.db


This looks correct assuming that the particular alias in question came
from the above aliases file and not from /etc/aliases* or some other
file owned by root.


>Then I tried to install mailman from source giving --with-mail-gid=list
>in case some other file is involved, but that didn't help either.


You have it backwards. The wrapper already expected group 'list'. You
would have had to specify --with-mail-gid=root to fix the above
mismatch. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>.


>The wrapper-script has ownership root:list and guid bit set:
>-rwxr-xr-x  1 root list 6,5K 2006-09-20 14:19 mailman


It doesn't look like SETGID is set. It should be -rwxr-sr-x.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From md6969 at gmail.com  Mon Apr  2 23:07:25 2007
From: md6969 at gmail.com (Martin Dennett)
Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 22:07:25 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topics and senders
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007040208232302810669fd70@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007040208232302810669fd70@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4611708D.1030406@gmail.com>

Mark

Thanks for that. I'm wasn't familiar with customising Thunderbird, and 
my other co-moderator uses OE (for his sins). I did manage to follow the 
latter link of your mail to set up the header though.

I have a test list, and tried this out. I subscribed a couple of extra 
accounts of mine to the list, and set them to No Mail (disabled by 
administrator). Sending a mail to the list with the "Urgent: <password>" 
header worked for my normal account (this one), but not for the other 
accounts. Any ideas as to why? I assume it's the (A) flag?

On a better note, I checked the headers and found that the password 
doesn't appear ;-). Don't want my more savvy members checking things out 
and discovering what they shouldn't ;-)

Rgds

MD

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>   
>> At 8:10 AM +0100 4/2/07, Martin Dennett wrote:
>>
>>     
>>>  Is there anyway I can amend the topic so that only mails
>>>  from a moderator address are sent to the list, and not the replies?
>>>       
>> But there's no per-topic control over this sort of thing.  At least, 
>> not without making source-code modifications.
>>     
>
>
> But there is a better way. Include a header in the post
>
> Urgent: <password>
>
> where <password> is the list admin or moderator password and the post
> will be sent to all list members regardless of topic filters, delivery
> status or regular/digest.
>
> Note that this must be a message header. putting it in the body will
> only result in the password being sent to the list.
>
> Martin used Thunderbird to send the OP. See
> <http://kb.mozillazine.org/Custom_headers> for information on adding
> custom headers with Thunderbird, and if you need additional help, see
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-February/055732.html>.
>
>   


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr  2 23:23:39 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 14:23:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting users to confirm
In-Reply-To: <B6E105D7-7FF2-411C-A993-402E7F0453D9@goldmark.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704021423390734881a4765@msapiro>

Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:
>
>On Apr 2, 2007, at 2:39 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:

>>> Also is there a way to get a listing of all things pending
>>> confirmation (not just subscriptions, but address changes as well)?
>>
>>
>> bin/dumpdb lists/<listname>/pending.pck
>>
>> will show them, albeit in a cryptic form.
>
>Thanks that works.
>
>> Also, it shows some that are
>> expired so you have to look at the timestamps in the 'evictions'
>> dictionary.
>
>Where do I find the evictions dictionary?  And how do I query it?


The 'evictions' dictionary is one of the attributes of the pickled
object in pending.pck.

Items you see in the dumpdb output mostly look like

 'c34dcd5ffbb70a207f4cac165fff807315aefadd': ('H', 16686),
 'c72443543da4ddd5fd2d4e13b3b33cc09d6ebb8d': ('H', 16704),
 'cbced5736c28706cf70b9106d2ab39ef02c05621': ('S', <UserDesc>)

These are key:value pairs. The key is the confirm token and the value
is a 2-tuple consisting of a request type and data. The types are

# Types of pending records
SUBSCRIPTION = 'S'
UNSUBSCRIPTION = 'U'
CHANGE_OF_ADDRESS = 'C'
HELD_MESSAGE = 'H'
RE_ENABLE = 'E'
PROBE_BOUNCE = 'P'

The data depend on the request type. For a HELD_MESSAGE data is the
message number. For a SUBSCRIPTION it's a UserDesc instance (the
details of which are removed in my example); for an UNSUBSCRIPTION,
its just the address; for a CHANGE_OF_ADDRESS, it's a tuple of (old
addr, new addr, global flag), etc.

Amongst these entries (in hashed, i.e. virtually random sequence) is
one that looks like

 'evictions': {...}

i.e., the key is 'evictions' and the value is a (multi-line)
dictionary. The entries in this dictionary look like

  '0374376b960f19345b85b41e6abd9ea3d70319b1': 1175729853.4594159,

where the key is one of the confirm tokens and the value is the
expiration time of that token in floating point seconds since the
epoch.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From mgrant at grant.org  Mon Apr  2 23:48:11 2007
From: mgrant at grant.org (Michael Grant)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 23:48:11 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on a different port
Message-ID: <62b856460704021448y287bd8efn2d6a48b095abc102@mail.gmail.com>

I installed mailman on a vhost on a different port number other than port 80 and
I noticed that when I went to the admin page, the links on that page
did not include the :portnumber in them, hence, they didn't work.

That shouldn't be too hard to fix.  Is there some way to configure
that in the meantime?

Michael Grant

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr  2 23:58:30 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 14:58:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topics and senders
In-Reply-To: <4611708D.1030406@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704021458300156881a451a@msapiro>

Martin Dennett wrote:
>
>I have a test list, and tried this out. I subscribed a couple of extra 
>accounts of mine to the list, and set them to No Mail (disabled by 
>administrator). Sending a mail to the list with the "Urgent: <password>" 
>header worked for my normal account (this one), but not for the other 
>accounts. Any ideas as to why? I assume it's the (A) flag?


It shouldn't be. The Urgent: header does one of two things. If the
password is correct, it bypasses all the filters including nomail for
any reason and makes the recipient list equal to all the list members,
regular and digest.. If the password is not correct, it just sends the
message back to you with the same subject and wrapped with another
part that says

  Your urgent message to the <listname> mailing list was not authorized
  for delivery.  The original message as received by Mailman is
  attached.

Are you sure that's not what you received?


>On a better note, I checked the headers and found that the password 
>doesn't appear ;-). Don't want my more savvy members checking things out 
>and discovering what they shouldn't ;-)


That's right. The Urgent: header will be removed before the message is
sent to the list members.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr  3 00:05:13 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 15:05:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] group mismatch error with postfix
In-Reply-To: <1175549409.5334.69.camel@linuxpc.lune>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704021505130656881a46fd@msapiro>

Neven Luetic wrote:
>
>Meanwhile I noticed that I get the same error, even if I move the
>mailman file away. 


The group mismatch error is coming from some Mailman mail/mailman
wrapper, so if you move yours aside and still get the error, Postfix
is piping to a different wrapper.

Look at your Postfix configuration and find every alias file it
references and look in all those files. There is some aliases* file
somewhere referenced by Postfix and probably owned by root which is
piping mail for this list to some other wrapper.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr  3 00:12:41 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 15:12:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on a different port
In-Reply-To: <62b856460704021448y287bd8efn2d6a48b095abc102@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007040215124108436e5526b4@msapiro>

Michael Grant wrote:

>I installed mailman on a vhost on a different port number other than port 80 and
>I noticed that when I went to the admin page, the links on that page
>did not include the :portnumber in them, hence, they didn't work.
>
>That shouldn't be too hard to fix.  Is there some way to configure
>that in the meantime?


Add the port to DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN. If it is currently the default, set

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s:nn/mailman/'

in mm_cfg.py where nn is the port you want. Also modify
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL as in

PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'http://%(hostname)s:nn/pipermail/%(listname)s'

Then you need to run fix_url under bin/withlist to fix the existing
lists (run bin/fix_url.py for help).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Tue Apr  3 01:52:09 2007
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 08:52:09 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Infamous error "ImportError: ld.so.1: python:
 fatal: libgcc_s.so.1" (followup)
In-Reply-To: <4610FE32.8060404@sonnection.nl>
References: <4610CF7E.8090309@sonnection.nl>	<4610EFE1.2000107@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
	<4610FE32.8060404@sonnection.nl>
Message-ID: <46119729.80605@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Rolf E. Sonneveld wrote:
> Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
>>> However, when I try to access Mailman via my browser (using Apache on 
>>> the server side) I get the infamous error message:
>>>     
>>   
>>> The /usr/local/lib version seems to be more recent. Before installation, 
>>> I made sure that LD_LIBRARY_PATH was set to 
>>>     
>> So, the apache was not running under LD_LIBRARY_PATH envrironment.  You 
>> should setenv LD_RUN_PATH while compiling or use crle.  Read the crle 
>> man for detail.
>>   
> 
> as a followup to my previous message: I just did a ldd for httpd and 
> this is the result:
> 
> bash-3.00# ldd /usr/local/apache/bin/httpd

It's not httpd which caused that error.  Maybe its python and/or a 
module which resides in python library path (.../lib/python2.x/) which 
is called from httpd running environment.  You should set LD_RUN_PATH 
properly while compiling python, mailman, and httpd.  LD_LIBRARY_PATH is 
only effective when the compiled executable is running.  So, you might 
want to startup httpd like:
# LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/whatever/lib /some/where/bin/apachectl start


-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/

From i_was_yah00ed at yahoo.com  Tue Apr  3 01:59:14 2007
From: i_was_yah00ed at yahoo.com (No One)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 16:59:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Traceback
Message-ID: <594052.85781.qm@web34813.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'm struggling with a host of issues trying to install Mandriva 2007.0. One of the problems I'm having is getting mailman configured from a working config on Mandrake 10.1. I copied what I thought I needed but get a trace back when I try to start mailman. Here is the trace back:

Starting mailman: Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/sbin/mailmanctl", line 548, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/sbin/mailmanctl", line 367, in main
    check_for_site_list()
  File "/usr/sbin/mailmanctl", line 277, in check_for_site_list
    sitelist = MailList(sitelistname, lock=0)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__
    self.Load()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 665, in Load
    self.CheckVersion(dict)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 707, in CheckVersion
    self.InitVars()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 413, in InitVars
    if Utils.GetCharSet(self.preferred_language) == 'us-ascii':
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 675, in GetCharSet
    return mm_cfg.LC_DESCRIPTIONS[lang][1]
KeyError: 'en_US'

Can someone help me with this? TIA.

 
---------------------------------
8:00? 8:25? 8:40?  Find a flick in no time
 with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr  3 03:04:26 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 18:04:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Traceback
In-Reply-To: <594052.85781.qm@web34813.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007040218042603906e5524e0@msapiro>

No One wrote:

>I'm struggling with a host of issues trying to install Mandriva 2007.0. One of the problems I'm having is getting mailman configured from a working config on Mandrake 10.1. I copied what I thought I needed but get a trace back when I try to start mailman. Here is the trace back:
>
>Starting mailman: Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/sbin/mailmanctl", line 548, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/usr/sbin/mailmanctl", line 367, in main
>    check_for_site_list()
>  File "/usr/sbin/mailmanctl", line 277, in check_for_site_list
>    sitelist = MailList(sitelistname, lock=0)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__
>    self.Load()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 665, in Load
>    self.CheckVersion(dict)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 707, in CheckVersion
>    self.InitVars()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 413, in InitVars
>    if Utils.GetCharSet(self.preferred_language) == 'us-ascii':
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 675, in GetCharSet
>    return mm_cfg.LC_DESCRIPTIONS[lang][1]
>KeyError: 'en_US'


This is a Mandravia issue. There is no 'en-US' language in Mailman. See
the thread at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-February/049533.html>
for the solution.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr  3 03:28:06 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 18:28:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Traceback
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007040218042603906e5524e0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704021828060859d9ed14e1@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>This is a Mandravia issue. There is no 'en-US' language in Mailman. See
>the thread at
><http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-February/049533.html>
>for the solution.


BTW, the above thread is broken in the archive. It continues at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-February/049543.html>.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From md6969 at gmail.com  Tue Apr  3 09:38:31 2007
From: md6969 at gmail.com (Martin Dennett)
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 08:38:31 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topics and senders
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200704021458300156881a451a@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200704021458300156881a451a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <46120477.6080708@gmail.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Martin Dennett wrote:
>   
>> I have a test list, and tried this out. I subscribed a couple of extra 
>> accounts of mine to the list, and set them to No Mail (disabled by 
>> administrator). Sending a mail to the list with the "Urgent: <password>" 
>> header worked for my normal account (this one), but not for the other 
>> accounts. Any ideas as to why? I assume it's the (A) flag?
>>     
>
>
> It shouldn't be. The Urgent: header does one of two things. If the
> password is correct, it bypasses all the filters including nomail for
> any reason and makes the recipient list equal to all the list members,
> regular and digest.. If the password is not correct, it just sends the
> message back to you with the same subject and wrapped with another
> part that says
>
>   Your urgent message to the <listname> mailing list was not authorized
>   for delivery.  The original message as received by Mailman is
>   attached.
>
> Are you sure that's not what you received?
>   
No, definitely not. As explained above, this account I'm sending from 
now received the message OK. I amended the settings for this account to 
digest only and the mail got through as a regular mail, as you 
explained, so I'm at a loss as to explain why. Any further ideas?

MD

From Neven.Luetic at hanse.net  Tue Apr  3 13:55:46 2007
From: Neven.Luetic at hanse.net (Neven Luetic)
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 13:55:46 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] group mismatch error with postfix
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200704021505130656881a46fd@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200704021505130656881a46fd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1175601346.5923.73.camel@linuxpc.lune>


> >Meanwhile I noticed that I get the same error, even if I move the
> >mailman file away. 
> 
> 
> The group mismatch error is coming from some Mailman mail/mailman
> wrapper, so if you move yours aside and still get the error, Postfix
> is piping to a different wrapper.
> 
> Look at your Postfix configuration and find every alias file it
> references and look in all those files. There is some aliases* file
> somewhere referenced by Postfix and probably owned by root which is
> piping mail for this list to some other wrapper.

I checked the aliases used by postfix and every occurence of
"mail/mailman" or "mail/wrapper", renamed them all, restarted mailman
and postfix and - using commandline "mail" from mailx - still got the
same error! 

After replacing package "mailx" by "mail" the command "mailman" finally
could not be found as expected. Now with the new source installation of
mailman everything is ok. 

If You have a sensible explanation for this, I would be interested. 
Seems that the whole installation was pretty broken.

Thank You for Your help

Neven


From mgrant at grant.org  Tue Apr  3 15:48:05 2007
From: mgrant at grant.org (Michael Grant)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 15:48:05 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman+drupal+apache+modsuexec+sendmail
Message-ID: <62b856460704030648wa3f6313xf9bed0066f78b74b@mail.gmail.com>

My goal is to set up mailman to work with drupal so that registered
drupal users can sign up certain lists.  However, I can't seem to get
mailman alone in my environment which is freebsd and apache 2 and
sendmail.  I'm using mod_suexec in apache.  And it's all under a
virtual host, there could be several vhosts.

I have mailman more or less working with apache and suexec, though I
suspect I may have problems here.  Suexec does not like group write or
setgid on the cgi files nor the cgi-bin dir, so I turned that off.  I
can get to the admin and create pages.

On permissions, I'm running the mailman web page as user=mailman and
group=mailman using this suexec line in the virtual host:
    SuexecUserGroup mailman mailman
which should do away with needing to setgid the cgi files.

Mailman itself (the qrunner) is running as userid=mailman and
groupid=mailman as well.  The doc says that this is not good because
it gives access to my private archives (if I ever have any private
archives).  I'm not sure quite what to do about this.

On the sendmail side, I have smrsh configured and when I send mail to
my test mailman list, I see in the maillog the message going to
mailman and I get a message back from mailman telling me I can't post
to my list because I'm not on it.  So it is at least getting into the
mailman program.

I created my initial 'mailman' list using bin/newlist mailman without errors.
However and here is where my problems seem to start, when I go to
listinfo web page, I don't see any lists at all.  I don't see how to
add myself to that list.

When I try to create a list from the web interface and I get the
following error:
Error: You are not authorized to create new mailing lists

I've tried both the site password and the list creator's password, same.

There is nothing in logs/error.

The first step seems to be to be able to add myself to the 'mailman'
list on my server.  By the way, is this list necessary?  If I have
multiple vhosts, what is this list for?  I don't really want mailman
messages coming from mailman at myserver, I want it coming from
mailman at vhost, for each vhost.

Any help appreciated!  Thanks!

Michael Grant

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr  3 17:44:00 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 08:44:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topics and senders
In-Reply-To: <46120477.6080708@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704030844000703ca46517f@msapiro>

Martin Dennett wrote:

>No, definitely not. As explained above, this account I'm sending from 
>now received the message OK. I amended the settings for this account to 
>digest only and the mail got through as a regular mail, as you 
>explained, so I'm at a loss as to explain why. Any further ideas?


Check Mailman's smtp and smtp-failure logs to see how many recipients
Mailman sent to and if there were any failures at the smtp level. Also
check the bounce log for bounces and the MTA logs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Lainie.Strange at dese.mo.gov  Tue Apr  3 17:14:03 2007
From: Lainie.Strange at dese.mo.gov (Strange, Lainie)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 10:14:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hi new to the list - ADA question with Mailman
Message-ID: <1DAFA743D97FF645B13260CA6BFC006F397D55@EXCHVS32.mx.state.mo.us>

Hi - the state of Missouri started using Mailman this past year
(currently using 2.1.9)
 
I searched the archives and couldn't find an answer - the admin and
subscriber mailman Web interfaces - are there plans to make the code ADA
compliant (Section 508)? For example, using label for tagging to
identify labels with form fields.  We are required to be compliant with
Section 508.
 
Any help greatly appreciated!
 
`````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Lainie Strange, Web Developer
Office of Admin./ITSD-DESE Support
http://dese.mo.gov <http://dese.mo.gov/> 

`````````````````````````````````````````````````````
 

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr  3 22:47:11 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 13:47:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman+drupal+apache+modsuexec+sendmail
In-Reply-To: <62b856460704030648wa3f6313xf9bed0066f78b74b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007040313471101098cbf3df8@msapiro>

Michael Grant wrote:
>
>I have mailman more or less working with apache and suexec, though I
>suspect I may have problems here.  Suexec does not like group write or
>setgid on the cgi files nor the cgi-bin dir, so I turned that off.  I
>can get to the admin and create pages.


As you're finding out, Mailman and SuExec don't work too well together.
There is a FAQ at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.017.htp>
which you may have seen.


>On permissions, I'm running the mailman web page as user=mailman and
>group=mailman using this suexec line in the virtual host:
>    SuexecUserGroup mailman mailman
>which should do away with needing to setgid the cgi files.


That';s effectively what you need to do. You can use a different
user:group, but whatever user:group you use needs read/write access to
Mailman, so mailman:mailman is the easiest.


>Mailman itself (the qrunner) is running as userid=mailman and
>groupid=mailman as well.  The doc says that this is not good because
>it gives access to my private archives (if I ever have any private
>archives).  I'm not sure quite what to do about this.


I think you misunderstand. Normally, mailmanctl must run as the
user:group configured for Mailman or as root in which case, it will
switch to Mailman's user:group anyway. Thus you are doing what needs
to be done.

The problem with access to private archives comes about if the web
server runs as Mailman's user:group, which is what you have to do with
SuExec because you can't SETGID. This in turn means that the web
server has permission to access private archives without going through
the private CGI. Thus, if it is possible to target Mailman's
archives/private directory directly via some URL, it is not possible
to block access.


>On the sendmail side, I have smrsh configured and when I send mail to
>my test mailman list, I see in the maillog the message going to
>mailman and I get a message back from mailman telling me I can't post
>to my list because I'm not on it.  So it is at least getting into the
>mailman program.


That seems correct.


>I created my initial 'mailman' list using bin/newlist mailman without errors.
>However and here is where my problems seem to start, when I go to
>listinfo web page, I don't see any lists at all.  I don't see how to
>add myself to that list.


Two things control whether or not a list appears on the overview pages.
The list's own 'advertised' attribute, and if VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW is
Yes (the default), whether the host name in the list's hidden
web_page_url attribute matches the accessing host. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.017.htp>
and
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.062.htp>.


>When I try to create a list from the web interface and I get the
>following error:
>Error: You are not authorized to create new mailing lists
>
>I've tried both the site password and the list creator's password, same.


There have been other reports of this and I've never seen a good answer.

The "You are not authorized to create new mailing lists" error occurs
only if the provided "List creator's (authentication) password:"
doesn't match either the site password or the list creator password.
Other validation tests on the list name, the owner and the list
password if any are applied before this, so presumably the form data
are getting to the create CGI, but the only explanation I can come up
with is that either the passwords aren't what you think they are (try
resetting them with bin/mmsitepass), the password isn't being
correctly transmitted by the web browse/web server, or the web server
isn't accessing the same mailman installation as the command line
utilities are accessing.
 

>There is nothing in logs/error.
>
>The first step seems to be to be able to add myself to the 'mailman'
>list on my server.  By the way, is this list necessary?  If I have
>multiple vhosts, what is this list for?  I don't really want mailman
>messages coming from mailman at myserver, I want it coming from
>mailman at vhost, for each vhost.


This list is the source of monthly password reminders and certain
bounce notifications that could otherwise cause bounce loops if a list
owner's address bounces. It is required in Mailman 2.1.x, but it is
going away in Mailman 2.2. Note that the password reminders are sent
separately per vhost and do come from mailman at vhost, but since there
is only one name space for list names (also going away in 2.2), all
the mailman at vhost lists are really the same list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From md6969 at gmail.com  Tue Apr  3 22:58:47 2007
From: md6969 at gmail.com (Martin Dennett)
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 21:58:47 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topics and senders
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200704030844000703ca46517f@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200704030844000703ca46517f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4612C007.7000205@gmail.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Martin Dennett wrote:
>
>   
>> No, definitely not. As explained above, this account I'm sending from 
>> now received the message OK. I amended the settings for this account to 
>> digest only and the mail got through as a regular mail, as you 
>> explained, so I'm at a loss as to explain why. Any further ideas?
>>     
>
>
> Check Mailman's smtp and smtp-failure logs to see how many recipients
> Mailman sent to and if there were any failures at the smtp level. Also
> check the bounce log for bounces and the MTA logs.
>   
Out of my reach unfortunately - I don't have access to them :-(

Rgds

MD

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr  3 23:31:07 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 14:31:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topics and senders
In-Reply-To: <4612C007.7000205@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704031431070515daa6354a@msapiro>

Martin Dennett wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> Check Mailman's smtp and smtp-failure logs to see how many recipients
>> Mailman sent to and if there were any failures at the smtp level. Also
>> check the bounce log for bounces and the MTA logs.
>>   
>Out of my reach unfortunately - I don't have access to them :-(


OK.

If you enable delivery for these test members, do they receive either
ordinary or urgent posts?
	
-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr  4 00:14:20 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 15:14:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Traceback
In-Reply-To: <374100.45651.qm@web34806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070403151420078177e03fc1@msapiro>

No One wrote:
>
>Anyway I am now at the next layer of the onion. I am getting another trace back complaining about permissions when trying to create the lock file. The mailman directory (/var/mailman) from the top down is owned by mailman:mailman and both owner and group permissions are r/w. I am using the 'service mailman start' command as root.


Well, I don't know what 'service mailman start' does in your case, but
I assume it ultimately runs 'bin/mailmanctl start' which should be OK.

What is the content of this traceback?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr  4 02:14:17 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 17:14:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Traceback
In-Reply-To: <980050.58855.qm@web34809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007040317141708750669ffbc@msapiro>

No One wrote:
>
>Thanks. Here it is:
>
>Starting mailman: Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/sbin/mailmanctl", line 548, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/usr/sbin/mailmanctl", line 367, in main
>    check_for_site_list()
>  File "/usr/sbin/mailmanctl", line 277, in check_for_site_list
>    sitelist = MailList(sitelistname, lock=0)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__
>    self.Load()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 665, in Load
>    self.CheckVersion(dict)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 715, in CheckVersion
>    self.Lock()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 161, in Lock
>    self.__lock.lock(timeout)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 243, in lock
>    self.__write()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 422, in __write
>    fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
>IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/locks/mailman.lock.dap002.8626.0'


There are two things going on here. First, and not really relevant to
the big picture, it appears you must be upgrading lists because the
section of code you're in is only reached if the data version of the
/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck file is less that the
current software version.

That aside, you will have problems anyway if the software can't create
and write lock files.

Have you run bin/check_perms to check permissions. You should run it as
root with the -f option until it runs cleanly.

If you're sure that all directories in the /var/lib/mailman/locks/ path
have search (x or maybe group s) permission for Mailman's group (or
world in the case of /var/ and /var/lib/) and the
/var/lib/mailman/locks/ directory itself also has read and write for
Mailman's group and you still get the above error, it may be due to
SeLinux or some other security policy
.
-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dhottinger at harrisonburg.k12.va.us  Wed Apr  4 02:38:05 2007
From: dhottinger at harrisonburg.k12.va.us (dhottinger at harrisonburg.k12.va.us)
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 20:38:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message may contain administrivia
Message-ID: <20070403203805.jrzpj0vr400s44sk@webmail.harrisonburg.k12.va.us>

What signifys a message as being labeled administrivia?  I dont get to  
many needing approval because of this, but I have yet to figure out  
why they are being flagged as such.

-- 
Dwayne Hottinger
Network Administrator
Harrisonburg City Public Schools


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr  4 03:22:43 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 18:22:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message may contain administrivia
In-Reply-To: <20070403203805.jrzpj0vr400s44sk@webmail.harrisonburg.k12.va.us>
Message-ID: <PC17602007040318224305936f0e477c@msapiro>

dhottinger at harrisonburg.k12.va.us wrote:

>What signifys a message as being labeled administrivia?  I dont get to  
>many needing approval because of this, but I have yet to figure out  
>why they are being flagged as such.


First, you can control whether or not messages are held for this reason
with the 'administrivia' setting on the list's general options page.

(Administrivia filter) Check postings and intercept ones that seem to
be administrative requests?

If administrivia is set to Yes, then a post will be held if it looks
like something that should have been sent to the -request address.

The test is not too sophisticated. It misses many 'get me off this
list' type posts. A message is judged administrivia if the body	up to
a '-- ' signature line consists of a single word from the list of
valid email commands or if the subject or one of the first few lines
of the body begins with a valid email command word followed by the
correct number of arguments (additional white space separated words).

The following is a list of command words and the minimum and maximum
number of arguments for each.

ADMINDATA = {
    # admin keyword: (minimum #args, maximum #args)
    'confirm':     (1, 1),
    'help':        (0, 0),
    'info':        (0, 0),
    'lists':       (0, 0),
    'options':     (0, 0),
    'password':    (2, 2),
    'remove':      (0, 0),
    'set':         (3, 3),
    'subscribe':   (0, 3),
    'unsubscribe': (0, 1),
    'who':         (0, 0),
    }


So if the subject of a message or one of the first few body lines has
unsubscribe as it's first word followed by 0 or 1 more words as in

 unsubscribe
or
 unsubscribe user at example.com
or
 Unsubscribe me!

it is administrivia, but not if it has

 unsubscribe me from this list.

In my experience, this catches messages from people who know what they
are doing and inadvertently send to the list instead of list-request,
but it catches few if any of the messages from clueless people who are
trying to get off the list or whatever by mailing to the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Jason at Weatherserver.net  Wed Apr  4 04:41:01 2007
From: Jason at Weatherserver.net (Jason [WeatherServer])
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:41:01 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RSS
Message-ID: <001901c77662$aedf4990$1400000a@newpc>

Anyone have the RSS patch working with the latest version of Mailman or does Mailman have RSS built in and I just can't find it.


--------------------------------------------
http://listserver.weatherserver.net
Weather Alerts, Traffic Alerts, Toronto Fire CAD Alerts
All to your email, 24/7/365
*****Visit us today*****

From pmatulis at sympatico.ca  Wed Apr  4 05:56:27 2007
From: pmatulis at sympatico.ca (Peter)
Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 23:56:27 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix error: "User unknown in virtual mailbox
	table"
Message-ID: <200704032356.27826.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>

I have seen this error on the net but I cannot locate the problem/solution:

Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual mailbox table;

I am having trouble with Postfix and Mailman integration.  I am using SQL 
lookups for virtual mailbox domains.  I believe my setup was working until I 
added the SQL part.

The following command yields no output:

$ postmap -q list at example.com hash:/var/spool/mailman/data/aliases

Finally, my setup:

$ postconf -n

alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/aliases, hash:/var/spool/mailman/data/aliases
biff = no
command_directory = /usr/local/sbin
config_directory = /etc/postfix
daemon_directory = /usr/local/libexec/postfix
debug_peer_level = 2
disable_vrfy_command = yes
empty_address_recipient = MAILER-DAEMON
html_directory = /usr/local/share/doc/postfix/html
mail_owner = _postfix
mailbox_size_limit = 1000000000
mailq_path = /usr/local/sbin/mailq
manpage_directory = /usr/local/man
message_size_limit = 80000000
mydomain = example.com
myhostname = mail.example.com
mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8, 10.9.0.0/16, 192.168.0.0/16
myorigin = $mydomain
newaliases_path = /usr/local/sbin/newaliases
notify_classes = resource,software
queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix
queue_minfree = 120000000
readme_directory = /usr/local/share/doc/postfix/readme
relay_domains = hash:/etc/postfix/relay_domains
relayhost = smtp.isp.com
sample_directory = /etc/postfix
sendmail_path = /usr/local/sbin/sendmail
setgid_group = _postdrop
smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP
smtpd_data_restrictions = reject_multi_recipient_bounce        
reject_unauth_pipelining
smtpd_helo_required = yes
smtpd_recipient_restrictions = reject_non_fqdn_recipient        
reject_non_fqdn_sender        reject_unknown_sender_domain        
permit_mynetworks        reject_unauth_destination        
reject_unknown_reverse_client_hostname        check_helo_access 
regexp:/etc/postfix/helo_checks        check_sender_mx_access 
cidr:/etc/postfix/bogus_mx        reject_rbl_client zen.spamhaus.org        
permit
unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550
virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/virtual_alias_maps.cf
virtual_gid_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/virtual_gid_maps.cf
virtual_mailbox_base = /var/spool/virtual_mailboxes
virtual_mailbox_domains = mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/virtual_mailbox_domains.cf
virtual_mailbox_limit = 80000000
virtual_mailbox_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/virtual_mailbox_recipients.cf
virtual_transport = maildrop
virtual_uid_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/virtual_uid_maps.cf


Thank you for any assistance.

Pedro

From md6969 at gmail.com  Wed Apr  4 09:20:53 2007
From: md6969 at gmail.com (Martin Dennett)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 08:20:53 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topics and senders
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200704031431070515daa6354a@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200704031431070515daa6354a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <461351D5.8010200@gmail.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Martin Dennett wrote:
>
>   
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>     
>>> Check Mailman's smtp and smtp-failure logs to see how many recipients
>>> Mailman sent to and if there were any failures at the smtp level. Also
>>> check the bounce log for bounces and the MTA logs.
>>>   
>>>       
>> Out of my reach unfortunately - I don't have access to them :-(
>>     
>
>
> OK.
>
> If you enable delivery for these test members, do they receive either
> ordinary or urgent posts?
Yep - both types. Just tried them out now.

MD

From macek at fortech.cz  Wed Apr  4 12:58:44 2007
From: macek at fortech.cz (Tomas Macek)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 12:58:44 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] default settings for newly created lists
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.98.0704041250010.7175@maca.fortech.cz>

Hi, I'm running Mailman 2.1.5.1-34 on RHEL4 machine. I will have to create some lists and I don't want to go throught the bin/config_list -o list.cfg list -> edit the cfg file -> bin/config_list -i list.cfg list, but I want to edit the options, that are the source for the creating new lists when I type the ./newlist command. Where is the default setting for new lists stored? I really can't find it.
For example I'd like to have 'msg_footer' option set the same for all my lists, 'generic_nonmember_action' and many others set to my own default, when I create a new list. Is it possible? Where can I do it?

Many thanks, Tomas




From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr  4 17:05:47 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 08:05:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topics and senders
In-Reply-To: <461351D5.8010200@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007040408054701093c6b9c9c@msapiro>

Martin Dennett wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> If you enable delivery for these test members, do they receive either
>> ordinary or urgent posts?
>Yep - both types. Just tried them out now.


What Mailman version is this, and is it a package or a source install?

I've only actually tested this on 2.1.5, but I see nothing in the code
in other versions that would affect it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From fred at kwotidian.com  Wed Apr  4 17:25:26 2007
From: fred at kwotidian.com (Fred Leber)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:25:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] kwotidian.com
Message-ID: <000a01c776cd$7de82e90$2f01a8c0@TOSHIBA>

Dear Mailman Users,

I am looking to put together a small team for Kwotidian.com, a startup which will create and distribute bilingual language development email. Kwotidian will use Mailman and we need 1-3 persons to handle the technical side.

The idea for Kwotidian began with a company named Wordburger in 1999. Wordburger sent out bite-size, witty, bilingual language lessons. Subscribers learned a few useful English words each day. Wordburger grew rapidly to 140,000 subscribers who wanted to learn or improve their English, 95% of whom were in non-English speaking countries. Our most successful edition was the Chinese, with 55,000 subscribers. We shut down in 2001 because our primary revenue model at that time was advertising and the reputation of internet advertising had gone down the drain. Now we intend to try again. The goal is not to have hundreds of thousands of subscribers  -  it is to have millions of subscribers.  Kwotidian.com needs a small team whose essential ingredient is enthusiasm and energy. Mailman and html experience would be good and experience with international character set encodings would be desirable but not essential.

Kwotidian is not yet operational but the basic idea and a sample Kwotidian daily message can be seen at kwotidian.com.

Please get in touch with me if you are interested. I will be glad to provide more details.

Fred Leber
Williamstown, Massachusetts USA
fred at kwotidian.com

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr  4 17:36:37 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 08:36:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] default settings for newly created lists
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.0.98.0704041250010.7175@maca.fortech.cz>
Message-ID: <PC176020070404083637078129c4acf2@msapiro>

Tomas Macek wrote:

>Where is the default setting for new lists stored? I really can't find it.
>For example I'd like to have 'msg_footer' option set the same for all my lists, 'generic_nonmember_action' and many others set to my own default, when I create a new list. Is it possible? Where can I do it?


There is no default new list configuration per se, but most defaults
can be set in mm_cfg.py, for example DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER and
DEFAULT_GENERIC_NONMEMBER_ACTION.

Read Defaults.py for the full list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From vancleef at lostwells.net  Wed Apr  4 17:48:16 2007
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (vancleef at lostwells.net)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 09:48:16 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Installing Mailman 2.1.9 on
	Solaris 10
In-Reply-To: <46111F4A.7020307@ddwsvcs.com>
Message-ID: <200704041548.l34FmGdo018608@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed David Devereaux-Weber has said:
> 
> Hank,
> 
> Thanks for your help!
> 
> I installed Python 2.4.4.  I did receive errors that tcl and something 
> else didn't install.  Now, the Mailman install script still finds 
> /opt/csw/lib/python2.3/distutils/dist.py:213 .  Can you tell me where 
> Python 2.4.4 puts the distutils?
> 
> Dave
> 
If you built python 2.4.4 to install in /usr/local, you should have a
/usr/local/lib/python2.4 directory that has the distutils in it.  

I assume you're building Mailman 2.1.9 from downloaded source; if not,
I recommend you do that, rather than using somebody else's prebuilt
source.  

Make sure the correct python is in your PATH.  If you've already built
Mailman with the /opt/csw python2.3, do a make clean, rerun configure,
make, and make install on Mailman.  

As I've said, /opt/csw is not a Solaris 10 directory, but is used by
one or more of the package prebuilders.  I would do an audit on what
is in that directory and pkgrm anything you don't actually need on
your system.  

Using the Solaris release sendmail and apache works well, but I'd
build Python 2.4.4 and Mailman 2.1.9 from source.  The default gid for
sendmail is "other" and for apache is "nobody", for the Mailman
configure script on Solaris 9/10.

Hank


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Wed Apr  4 16:55:52 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 07:55:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] default settings for newly created lists
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.0.98.0704041250010.7175@maca.fortech.cz>
References: <alpine.LFD.0.98.0704041250010.7175@maca.fortech.cz>
Message-ID: <200704041356.l34DttxW009006@unreal.eroded.org>

Tomas Macek wrote:
>Hi, I'm running Mailman 2.1.5.1-34 on RHEL4 machine. I will have to 
>create some lists and I don't want to go throught the 
>bin/config_list -o list.cfg list -> edit the cfg file -> 
>bin/config_list -i list.cfg list, but I want to edit the options, 
>that are the source for the creating new lists when I type the 
>./newlist command. Where is the default setting for new lists 
>stored? I really can't find it.
>For example I'd like to have 'msg_footer' option set the same for 
>all my lists, 'generic_nonmember_action' and many others set to my 
>own default, when I create a new list. Is it possible? Where can I do it?
>
>Many thanks, Tomas
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

All of the list and server defaults are in the Defaults.py file but 
DO NOT change that one. It gets overwritten when Mailman is upgraded.

You can put the settings you want in the mm_cfg.py file, this file is 
used to override defaults and set other options like msg_footer etc. 
at list creation. The settings you want have to be in that file when 
you create the list or they won't be set.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From md6969 at gmail.com  Wed Apr  4 22:46:02 2007
From: md6969 at gmail.com (Martin Dennett)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 21:46:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topics and senders
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007040408054701093c6b9c9c@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007040408054701093c6b9c9c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <46140E8A.2090209@gmail.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Martin Dennett wrote:
>
>   
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>     
>>> If you enable delivery for these test members, do they receive either
>>> ordinary or urgent posts?
>>>       
>> Yep - both types. Just tried them out now.
>>     
>
>
> What Mailman version is this, and is it a package or a source install?
>
> I've only actually tested this on 2.1.5, but I see nothing in the code
> in other versions that would affect it.
It's version 2.1.9.cp2, and a package. I'm with Site 5.

Any replies may not get a response until Monday evening (UK time) as I'm 
away for the weekend starting Thursday morning.

MD

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr  5 01:17:28 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:17:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topics and senders
In-Reply-To: <46140E8A.2090209@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007040416172800466905a9aa@msapiro>

Martin Dennett wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> What Mailman version is this, and is it a package or a source install?
>>
>> I've only actually tested this on 2.1.5, but I see nothing in the code
>> in other versions that would affect it.
>It's version 2.1.9.cp2, and a package. I'm with Site 5.


OK. I've tested this now with Mailman 2.1.9+ with the same result,
namely an urgent message is sent to all list members regardless of
delivery status, regular/digest or other filters.

Thus, not sending urgent messages to delivery disabled members in your
case is most likely a cPanel 'feature'. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.

In any case, it seems that using the Urgent: header for these kinds of
messages is still a good solution for you as your Topics method didn't
deliver to delivery disabled members either, nor did it deliver
immediately to digest members, and the Urgent: header avoids the reply
problem with topics.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr  5 01:22:20 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:22:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Traceback
In-Reply-To: <631431.92917.qm@web34801.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007040416222000936a25eed1@msapiro>

No One wrote:
>
>You are correct about the versions. I was assuming (I know, I know) that when I get mailman going it will handle the conversion. Is there something else I should do first?


No. Mailman should handle the conversion without problem. It was the
permissions problem that was preventing it from doing so.


>As to the rest, I ran check_perms a bunch of times and it reported no problems. However, with all the installing and uninstalling I must have not done it this last time.  It fixed a host of problems that are usually there after an install. Now it runs. Thanks for your help.


You're welcome. I'm glad it's working.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From i_was_yah00ed at yahoo.com  Thu Apr  5 02:39:07 2007
From: i_was_yah00ed at yahoo.com (No One)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 17:39:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman scripts running with wrong group
Message-ID: <82881.20533.qm@web34814.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I have mailman up an running but message are bouncing because of a complaint about the group that the scripts are running as. Here is the error:

 Command output: Group
     mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be  executed as
     group "mail", but the system's mail server executed the mail script  as
     group "nogroup".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as  group
     "mail", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option
     `--with-mail-gid=nogroup'.

I have no idea what it is talking about. Is this a postfix issue or a mailman issue. Since I installed mailman as an rpm, I never ran a configure script. This was never an issue in the previous version. What do I need to do now? Thanks.



 
---------------------------------
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.

From justin.denick at gmail.com  Wed Apr  4 21:24:25 2007
From: justin.denick at gmail.com (Justin Denick)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 15:24:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Size Limits of Files?
Message-ID: <81e08d920704041224q2fb7b5edqc4bad1d318deaf15@mail.gmail.com>

I had a user complain that she could not send mail, reply, or check Sent
Mail.
She would click on "Sent" and after awhile it would just download a file
called right_main.php.

After some checking I found that the file was pretty large 193MB, though
there were other files that were larger, but still accessible.

My 'fix' or hack, whatever you will call it, was to split the file into
three sets (2005, 2006, 2007), using the same MAILMAN header for each file.
I then subscribed to these new 'folders' and viola she had access to all of
her Sent mail. I then moved the data from 2007 back into the actual Sent
mail file. Now when she composes mail it will have some semblance of working
correctly.

My question is why did it break in the first place.


-- 
In vino veritas.
        [In wine there is truth.]
                -- Pliny

From pmatulis at sympatico.ca  Thu Apr  5 03:36:35 2007
From: pmatulis at sympatico.ca (Peter)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 21:36:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman scripts running with wrong group
In-Reply-To: <82881.20533.qm@web34814.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <82881.20533.qm@web34814.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200704042136.36340.pmatulis@sympatico.ca>

Le Mercredi 4 Avril 2007 20:39, No One a ?crit?:
> I have mailman up an running but message are bouncing because of a
> complaint about the group that the scripts are running as. Here is the
> error:
>
>  Command output: Group
>      mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be 
> executed as group "mail", but the system's mail server executed the mail
> script  as group "nogroup".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script
> as  group "mail", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option
> `--with-mail-gid=nogroup'.
>
> I have no idea what it is talking about. Is this a postfix issue or a
> mailman issue. Since I installed mailman as an rpm, I never ran a configure
> script. This was never an issue in the previous version. What do I need to
> do now? Thanks.

Check the archives of this list.  This issue has been covered.

Pete

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr  5 03:38:36 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 18:38:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman scripts running with wrong group
In-Reply-To: <82881.20533.qm@web34814.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007040418383605930669feb5@msapiro>

No One wrote:

>I have mailman up an running but message are bouncing because of a complaint about the group that the scripts are running as. Here is the error:
>
> Command output: Group
>     mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be  executed as
>     group "mail", but the system's mail server executed the mail script  as
>     group "nogroup".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as  group
>     "mail", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option
>     `--with-mail-gid=nogroup'.
>
>I have no idea what it is talking about. Is this a postfix issue or a mailman issue. Since I installed mailman as an rpm, I never ran a configure script. This was never an issue in the previous version. What do I need to do now? Thanks.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>
for information about this kind of error.

What you really need to do is contact your packager, however I think in
most cases, Postfix excecutes the pipe to Mailman using the user and
group of the file in which it found the alias that contains the pipe
to Mailman. So, you could try adjusting that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr  5 03:45:39 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 18:45:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Size Limits of Files?
In-Reply-To: <81e08d920704041224q2fb7b5edqc4bad1d318deaf15@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070404184539026530e52f90@msapiro>

Justin Denick wrote:

>I had a user complain that she could not send mail, reply, or check Sent
>Mail.
>She would click on "Sent" and after awhile it would just download a file
>called right_main.php.
>
>After some checking I found that the file was pretty large 193MB, though
>there were other files that were larger, but still accessible.
>
>My 'fix' or hack, whatever you will call it, was to split the file into
>three sets (2005, 2006, 2007), using the same MAILMAN header for each file.
>I then subscribed to these new 'folders' and viola she had access to all of
>her Sent mail. I then moved the data from 2007 back into the actual Sent
>mail file. Now when she composes mail it will have some semblance of working
>correctly.
>
>My question is why did it break in the first place.


Did you really mean to send this question to the Mailman-Users list?

If so, you have to provide a lot more detail to enable us to understand
how it relates to Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From david at midrange.com  Thu Apr  5 04:03:42 2007
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 22:03:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RSS
In-Reply-To: <001901c77662$aedf4990$1400000a@newpc>
References: <001901c77662$aedf4990$1400000a@newpc>
Message-ID: <461458FE.7050000@midrange.com>

Jason [WeatherServer] wrote:
> Anyone have the RSS patch working with the latest version of Mailman 
> or does Mailman have RSS built in and I just can't find it.

I've got an RSS feed working with MhonArc, which I'm using as an
external archiver.

http://david.fallingrock.net/2005/07/22/rss-from-mhonarc/

david

From kalin at el.net  Thu Apr  5 04:37:38 2007
From: kalin at el.net (kalin mintchev)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 22:37:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] join vs subscribe
Message-ID: <60462.68.165.89.71.1175740658.squirrel@mail.el.net>

hi all..

what is the difference between listname-join and listname-subscribe?!

thanks....


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr  5 05:02:43 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 20:02:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] join vs subscribe
In-Reply-To: <60462.68.165.89.71.1175740658.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602007040420024305000669fe5f@msapiro>

kalin mintchev wrote:
>
>what is the difference between listname-join and listname-subscribe?!


They're spelled differently. Otherwise, none. listname-join is a
synonym for listname-subscribe just as listname-leave is a synonym for
listname-unsubscribe.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kalin at el.net  Thu Apr  5 07:17:04 2007
From: kalin at el.net (kalin mintchev)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 01:17:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] join vs subscribe
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007040420024305000669fe5f@msapiro>
References: <60462.68.165.89.71.1175740658.squirrel@mail.el.net>      
	<PC17602007040420024305000669fe5f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <61042.68.165.89.71.1175750224.squirrel@mail.el.net>

so then what does it mean when i sent 3 different email requests to
subscribe to a list and nothing happens..

the ways are: sending a message to list-subscribe at host, list-join at host and
list-request at host with the subject and body 'subscribe'.
mail log says:

l350hXwM001076: to="|/var/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe list",
ctladdr=<list-subscribe at caiman.el.net> (8/0), delay=00:00:01, xdelay=
00:00:01, mailer=prog, pri=30923, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent

or in other words this is turned over to mailman.
after A FEW HOURS this turns up in the mailman subscribe log:


Apr 04 20:17:21 2007 (5670) list: pending kalin at el.net  kalin at el.net Apr
04 20:17:21 2007 (5670) list: pending kalin at el.net  kalin at el.net Apr 04
20:17:24 2007 (5670) list: pending kalin at el.net  kalin at el.net Apr 04
20:17:25 2007 (5670) list: pending kalin at el.net  kalin at el.net Apr 04
20:17:25 2007 (5670) list: pending kalin at el.net  kalin at el.net Apr 04
20:17:25 2007 (5670) list: pending kalin mintchev <kalin at el.net> 
kalin at el.net

still i have not gotten the email where i'm supposed to confirm my
subscription.

my name is not in the queue?

what's up with the delay?

thanks....




> kalin mintchev wrote:
>>what is the difference between listname-join and listname-subscribe?!
>
>
> They're spelled differently. Otherwise, none. listname-join is a synonym
for listname-subscribe just as listname-leave is a synonym for
listname-unsubscribe.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers, San
Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/kalin%40el.net
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>







From kalin at el.net  Thu Apr  5 07:57:16 2007
From: kalin at el.net (kalin mintchev)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 01:57:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] join vs subscribe
In-Reply-To: <61042.68.165.89.71.1175750224.squirrel@mail.el.net>
References: <60462.68.165.89.71.1175740658.squirrel@mail.el.net>      
	<PC17602007040420024305000669fe5f@msapiro>
	<61042.68.165.89.71.1175750224.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <61150.68.165.89.71.1175752636.squirrel@mail.el.net>


i just got the emails - all of them at once - hours after the requests
were made...

and i'm seeing something in the maillog i haven't seen before:
timeout waiting for input from local during Draining Input

i just confirmed one. by replying. still not a member...

this has never happened before. i found this thread without a resolution
of the problem:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-July/045582.html

anyone knows how that story ended?

my mailman version is 2.1.5. it has been working fine so far except i have
to restart mailman with cron because the bounce runner crashes for some
reason...



> so then what does it mean when i sent 3 different email requests to
> subscribe to a list and nothing happens..
>
> the ways are: sending a message to list-subscribe at host, list-join at host and
> list-request at host with the subject and body 'subscribe'.
> mail log says:
>
> l350hXwM001076: to="|/var/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe list",
> ctladdr=<list-subscribe at caiman.el.net> (8/0), delay=00:00:01, xdelay=
> 00:00:01, mailer=prog, pri=30923, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
>
> or in other words this is turned over to mailman.
> after A FEW HOURS this turns up in the mailman subscribe log:
>
>
> Apr 04 20:17:21 2007 (5670) list: pending kalin at el.net  kalin at el.net Apr
> 04 20:17:21 2007 (5670) list: pending kalin at el.net  kalin at el.net Apr 04
> 20:17:24 2007 (5670) list: pending kalin at el.net  kalin at el.net Apr 04
> 20:17:25 2007 (5670) list: pending kalin at el.net  kalin at el.net Apr 04
> 20:17:25 2007 (5670) list: pending kalin at el.net  kalin at el.net Apr 04
> 20:17:25 2007 (5670) list: pending kalin mintchev <kalin at el.net>
> kalin at el.net
>
> still i have not gotten the email where i'm supposed to confirm my
> subscription.
>
> my name is not in the queue?
>
> what's up with the delay?
>
> thanks....
>
>
>
>
>> kalin mintchev wrote:
>>>what is the difference between listname-join and listname-subscribe?!
>>
>>
>> They're spelled differently. Otherwise, none. listname-join is a synonym
> for listname-subscribe just as listname-leave is a synonym for
> listname-unsubscribe.
>>
>> --
>> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers, San
> Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list
>> Mailman-Users at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>> Searchable Archives:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/kalin%40el.net
>>
>> Security Policy:
>> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/kalin%40el.net
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>



From macek at fortech.cz  Thu Apr  5 08:13:26 2007
From: macek at fortech.cz (Tomas Macek)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 08:13:26 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] default settings for newly created lists
In-Reply-To: <200704041356.l34DttxW009006@unreal.eroded.org>
References: <alpine.LFD.0.98.0704041250010.7175@maca.fortech.cz>
	<200704041356.l34DttxW009006@unreal.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.98.0704050802370.7175@maca.fortech.cz>



On Wed, 4 Apr 2007, Dragon wrote:

> Tomas Macek wrote:
>> Hi, I'm running Mailman 2.1.5.1-34 on RHEL4 machine. I will have to create 
>> some lists and I don't want to go throught the bin/config_list -o list.cfg 
>> list -> edit the cfg file -> bin/config_list -i list.cfg list, but I want 
>> to edit the options, that are the source for the creating new lists when I 
>> type the ./newlist command. Where is the default setting for new lists 
>> stored? I really can't find it.
>> For example I'd like to have 'msg_footer' option set the same for all my 
>> lists, 'generic_nonmember_action' and many others set to my own default, 
>> when I create a new list. Is it possible? Where can I do it?
>> 
>> Many thanks, Tomas
> ---------------- End original message. ---------------------
>
> All of the list and server defaults are in the Defaults.py file but DO NOT 
> change that one. It gets overwritten when Mailman is upgraded.
>
> You can put the settings you want in the mm_cfg.py file, this file is used to 
> override defaults and set other options like msg_footer etc. at list 
> creation. The settings you want have to be in that file when you create the 
> list or they won't be set.
>
> Dragon
>

I knew about the changes in Defaults.py and mm_cfg.py but I didn't try to write lists config variables in it. Now I have this settings in my mm_cfg.py:

...
generic_nonmember_action = 0
GENERIC_NONMEMBER_ACTION = 0
...

I did not know, if the variables in mm_cfg.py are case sensitive, so I wrote both. But still when I try to create a new list ("./newlist x") and then dump the config, I still see generic_nonmember_action = 1. Why? What should I change?



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr  5 16:05:52 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 07:05:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] join vs subscribe
In-Reply-To: <61150.68.165.89.71.1175752636.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704050705520375a26e7e2b@msapiro>

kalin mintchev wrote:
>
>i just got the emails - all of them at once - hours after the requests
>were made...
>
>and i'm seeing something in the maillog i haven't seen before:
>timeout waiting for input from local during Draining Input
>
>i just confirmed one. by replying. still not a member...
>
>this has never happened before. i found this thread without a resolution
>of the problem:
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-July/045582.html
>
>anyone knows how that story ended?
>
>my mailman version is 2.1.5. it has been working fine so far except i have
>to restart mailman with cron because the bounce runner crashes for some
>reason...


So you have qrunner problems possibly affecting more than bounce runner.


>> so then what does it mean when i sent 3 different email requests to
>> subscribe to a list and nothing happens..
>>
>> the ways are: sending a message to list-subscribe at host, list-join at host and
>> list-request at host with the subject and body 'subscribe'.
>> mail log says:
>>
>> l350hXwM001076: to="|/var/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe list",
>> ctladdr=<list-subscribe at caiman.el.net> (8/0), delay=00:00:01, xdelay=
>> 00:00:01, mailer=prog, pri=30923, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
>>
>> or in other words this is turned over to mailman.
>> after A FEW HOURS this turns up in the mailman subscribe log:
>>
>>
>> Apr 04 20:17:21 2007 (5670) list: pending kalin at el.net  kalin at el.net Apr
>> 04 20:17:21 2007 (5670) list: pending kalin at el.net  kalin at el.net Apr 04
>> 20:17:24 2007 (5670) list: pending kalin at el.net  kalin at el.net Apr 04
>> 20:17:25 2007 (5670) list: pending kalin at el.net  kalin at el.net Apr 04
>> 20:17:25 2007 (5670) list: pending kalin at el.net  kalin at el.net Apr 04
>> 20:17:25 2007 (5670) list: pending kalin mintchev <kalin at el.net>
>> kalin at el.net
>>
>> still i have not gotten the email where i'm supposed to confirm my
>> subscription.
>>
>> my name is not in the queue?


Look in all Mailman's logs for relevant entries. Look at Mailman's
qfiles/*/ directories. In short, go through all of
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>.

Report the full detail of anything unusual you find.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr  5 16:14:45 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 07:14:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] default settings for newly created lists
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.0.98.0704050802370.7175@maca.fortech.cz>
Message-ID: <PC17602007040507144502653f3b1ed6@msapiro>

Tomas Macek 
>
>I knew about the changes in Defaults.py and mm_cfg.py but I didn't try to write lists config variables in it. Now I have this settings in my mm_cfg.py:
>
>...
>generic_nonmember_action = 0
>GENERIC_NONMEMBER_ACTION = 0
>...
>
>I did not know, if the variables in mm_cfg.py are case sensitive,


They are.


>so I wrote both. But still when I try to create a new list ("./newlist x") and then dump the config, I still see generic_nonmember_action = 1. Why? What should I change?


Did you see my reply to your post at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-April/056442.html>?

You can't set anything in mm_cfg.py that isn't already set in
Defaults.py. You can only override Defaults.py settings in mm_cfg.py.

Read Defaults.py, or if you've read it, read it again. The settings you
want are things like DEFAULT_GENERIC_NONMEMBER_ACTION,
DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER, etc.

These are all described in Defaults.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From R.E.Sonneveld at sonnection.nl  Thu Apr  5 16:20:10 2007
From: R.E.Sonneveld at sonnection.nl (Rolf E. Sonneveld)
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 16:20:10 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Infamous error "ImportError: ld.so.1: python:
 fatal: libgcc_s.so.1" (solved)
In-Reply-To: <46119729.80605@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <4610CF7E.8090309@sonnection.nl>
	<4610EFE1.2000107@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <4610FE32.8060404@sonnection.nl>
	<46119729.80605@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <4615059A.2070806@sonnection.nl>

Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
> Rolf E. Sonneveld wrote:
>> Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
>>>> However, when I try to access Mailman via my browser (using Apache 
>>>> on the server side) I get the infamous error message:
>>>>     
>>>  
>>>> The /usr/local/lib version seems to be more recent. Before 
>>>> installation, I made sure that LD_LIBRARY_PATH was set to     
>>> So, the apache was not running under LD_LIBRARY_PATH envrironment.  
>>> You should setenv LD_RUN_PATH while compiling or use crle.  Read the 
>>> crle man for detail.
>>>   
>>
>> as a followup to my previous message: I just did a ldd for httpd and 
>> this is the result:
>>
>> bash-3.00# ldd /usr/local/apache/bin/httpd
>
> It's not httpd which caused that error.  Maybe its python and/or a 
> module which resides in python library path (.../lib/python2.x/) which 
> is called from httpd running environment.  You should set LD_RUN_PATH 
> properly while compiling python, mailman, and httpd.  LD_LIBRARY_PATH 
> is only effective when the compiled executable is running.  So, you 
> might want to startup httpd like:
> # LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/whatever/lib /some/where/bin/apachectl start

Great! I removed Python and Mailman, recompiled again using the proper 
LD_RUN_PATH (in addition to the LD_LIBRARY_PATH) and now it works like a 
charm. I didn't have to recompile Apache. Thanks a lot for your help!

/rolf


From chal.arun at gmail.com  Thu Apr  5 14:58:48 2007
From: chal.arun at gmail.com (simply arun)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 18:58:48 +0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem adding virtual domains in sendmail
Message-ID: <4689d6590704050558x55bfd0e7sa65521edf4c7633f@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everybody
Can any one explain me how to add virtual domains in sendmail server and how
to configure mailing list for the virtual domains
thanks and regards

-- 
            arunanchal behera(RHCE)
seek to understand than to be understood
         mob no:+919440147694

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Apr  5 17:57:33 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 10:57:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Size Limits of Files?
In-Reply-To: <81e08d920704041224q2fb7b5edqc4bad1d318deaf15@mail.gmail.com>
References: <81e08d920704041224q2fb7b5edqc4bad1d318deaf15@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240503c23acc490a67@[192.168.132.151]>

At 3:24 PM -0400 4/4/07, Justin Denick wrote:

>  I had a user complain that she could not send mail, reply, or check Sent
>  Mail.
>  She would click on "Sent" and after awhile it would just download a file
>  called right_main.php.

I'm pretty sure that Mailman doesn't use PHP -- It's Python, instead. 
So, whatever is going on here, I don't think it has anything to do 
with Mailman per se.

>  After some checking I found that the file was pretty large 193MB, though
>  there were other files that were larger, but still accessible.
>
>  My 'fix' or hack, whatever you will call it, was to split the file into
>  three sets (2005, 2006, 2007), using the same MAILMAN header for each file.
>  I then subscribed to these new 'folders' and viola she had access to all of
>  her Sent mail. I then moved the data from 2007 back into the actual Sent
>  mail file. Now when she composes mail it will have some semblance of working
>  correctly.

Split the file?  Mailman headers?  Folders?  Sent mail?  None of this 
sounds like it has anything remotely to do with Mailman at all.  This 
all sounds like a webmail problems, or maybe a problem with whatever 
program she uses to send e-mail.

>  My question is why did it break in the first place.

Seeing that this doesn't seem to have anything at all to do with 
Mailman, I have no clue why it may have broken, or what may have been 
the problem.  I don't even understand what you're talking about 
having fixed.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Apr  5 19:04:22 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 12:04:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Size Limits of Files?
In-Reply-To: <p06240503c23acc490a67@192.168.132.151>
References: <81e08d920704041224q2fb7b5edqc4bad1d318deaf15@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240503c23acc490a67@192.168.132.151>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00704051004w4cfc12dcg9d4c8129ec254ebf@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/5/07, Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:
> At 3:24 PM -0400 4/4/07, Justin Denick wrote:
>
> >  I had a user complain that she could not send mail, reply, or check Sent
> >  Mail.
> >  She would click on "Sent" and after awhile it would just download a file
> >  called right_main.php.
>
> I'm pretty sure that Mailman doesn't use PHP -- It's Python, instead.
> So, whatever is going on here, I don't think it has anything to do
> with Mailman per se.

Indeed, 'right_main.php' reminds me of squirrelmail, which, IIRC, is PHP.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From zipfel at greenacrestechnology.com  Thu Apr  5 22:37:37 2007
From: zipfel at greenacrestechnology.com (Krystal F. Zipfel)
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 16:37:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Language encoding and digests...
Message-ID: <46155E11.2050107@greenacrestechnology.com>

Random question, and unfortunately I'm having trouble finding answers 
since most of the things I have found aren't in my language...

Has anyone here ever attempted to use EUC-JP encoding along with 
digests? I recently ran into an issue with a list whom was using 
Japanese as they're language, and the digest mbox file actually caused 
any other list on that server to not receive digests and I have 
absolutely no clue why or how.

Just a thought,
Krystal

From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Thu Apr  5 23:02:08 2007
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 06:02:08 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Language encoding and digests...
In-Reply-To: <46155E11.2050107@greenacrestechnology.com>
References: <46155E11.2050107@greenacrestechnology.com>
Message-ID: <461563D0.9080007@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Krystal F. Zipfel wrote:
> Random question, and unfortunately I'm having trouble finding answers 
> since most of the things I have found aren't in my language...
> 
> Has anyone here ever attempted to use EUC-JP encoding along with 
> digests? I recently ran into an issue with a list whom was using 
> Japanese as they're language, and the digest mbox file actually caused 
> any other list on that server to not receive digests and I have 
> absolutely no clue why or how.


I don't fully understand your situation but there is a common problem in 
Japanese people who don't care (or ignorant) about 'machine dependent 
characters' like number in circle or double width roman numerals.  If 
those characters are used in 'iso-2022-jp' declaration of charset, 
mailman and python codecs fail to process such characters and single 
processes like 'cron/senddigests' stops working.

My advice is to remove (or rename for later inspection) the digest.mbox 
file from the Japanese list directory and set digestable=0 if they keep 
using the 'machine dependent characters'.


> 
> Just a thought,
> Krystal
> ------------------------------------------------------


-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/

From jhg at jhmg.net  Thu Apr  5 22:58:19 2007
From: jhg at jhmg.net (Jim Garrison)
Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 15:58:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permanent subscription ban?
Message-ID: <461562EB.6030403@jhmg.net>

Is there a way to tell Mailman to never allow a specific
email address to be subscribed? 

I.e. is there a master "banned email address" list within
Mailman, and if so how to I add addresses to it?



From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Apr  5 23:20:19 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 16:20:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permanent subscription ban?
In-Reply-To: <461562EB.6030403@jhmg.net>
References: <461562EB.6030403@jhmg.net>
Message-ID: <p06240508c23b174b536a@[192.168.132.151]>

At 3:58 PM -0500 4/5/07, Jim Garrison wrote:


>  Is there a way to tell Mailman to never allow a specific
>  email address to be subscribed?
>
>  I.e. is there a master "banned email address" list within
>  Mailman, and if so how to I add addresses to it?

Sure.  From the web admin interface for your list, click on "Privacy 
options...", and the first sub-page is "Subscription rules".  Scroll 
down to the "ban_list" field, which has the short description:

	List of addresses which are banned from membership in this
	mailing list.

Then you can either enter specific addresses which are banned, or you 
can use Python regular expressions to ban an entire domain.


In the latter case, to take a couple of examples that were recently 
banned on the mailman-users mailing list, we added:

	^@rnp.br
	^@thehensleys.com

This is because they had subscribed to the mailman-users list from 
addresses that were themselves pointed at mis-configured mailing 
lists, causing every single post to the list to result in a bounce.

When the people who administer these sites figure out that they've 
been unsubscribed and their entire domain has been banned, they can 
come back to us and ask why we took this action, and then we will 
explain the severity of the situation to them.  Once they can 
convince us that this will never, ever happen again, we can re-enable 
subscription access for their domain.


Note that there is no leading whitespace in these regular expressions 
-- the caret ("^") symbol has to be the first character on the line.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr  6 02:03:47 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 17:03:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman scripts running with wrong group
In-Reply-To: <338036.72416.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070405170347081227cde4fb@msapiro>

No One wrote:
>
>Thanks but that link doesn't help. I installed using an rpm binary so there is/was no configure script.


I referred you to FAQ article 6.16 to help you understand the source of
the error and the reason for it. Not because I thought it would give
you a cookbook solution.


>On the other hand this is beginning to look like a Mandriva problem. The 'mailman' script has a group of 'mail' and the set gid bit is on so it should be running as mail. As far as the packager is concerned that probably also Mandriva but I don't expect to get anything there very quickly.


If you had read and comprehended the FAQ article, you would understand
that the SETGID wrapper is group 'mail' and runs with effective group
'mail', but it has a check for the real invoking group for security
reasons to prevent just anyone from successfully running it.

I wrote:

>What you really need to do is contact your packager, however I think in
>most cases, Postfix excecutes the pipe to Mailman using the user and
>group of the file in which it found the alias that contains the pipe
>to Mailman. So, you could try adjusting that.


I believe this is the solution in this case. If you properly set up
Mailman-Postfix integration as described at
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html>, the Mailman aliases
for Postfix will be automatically maintained in Mailman's
data/aliases* files, and if these are user:group mail:mail, I think
that will solve your problem.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Fri Apr  6 02:32:45 2007
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 19:32:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman scripts running with wrong group
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007040418383605930669feb5@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007040418383605930669feb5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <AA17B609-BCBD-4230-A3C5-BF9059DFFD54@goldmark.org>

On Apr 4, 2007, at 8:38 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> I think in
> most cases, Postfix excecutes the pipe to Mailman using the user and
> group of the file in which it found the alias that contains the pipe
> to Mailman.

I can confirm this.  I had the problem that the original poster  
described after moving my mailman installation from one machine to  
another.  Postfix does instead use the owner of the particular .db  
file to determine what user delivery (whether to files or pipes)  
should be run under.

-j


-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp  Fri Apr  6 05:10:18 2007
From: turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 12:10:18 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Language encoding and digests...
In-Reply-To: <461563D0.9080007@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <46155E11.2050107@greenacrestechnology.com>
	<461563D0.9080007@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <878xd6ryed.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Krystal writes:

 > > Has anyone here ever attempted to use EUC-JP encoding along with 
 > > digests? I recently ran into an issue with a list whom was using 
 > > Japanese as they're language, and the digest mbox file actually caused 
 > > any other list on that server to not receive digests and I have 
 > > absolutely no clue why or how.

Please file a bug report.  I am just as frustrated as Kikuchi-san is
with the Japanese attitude toward standards, but this behavior of
Mailman is a violation of the Postel Principle ("be strict in what you
emit, but lax in what you accept").  Mailman functionality should not
be disabled by the contents of posts it handles; if it doesn't like
them, it should strip them or quarantine them without impeding the
flow of other posts.

In the short run, you probably should disable digestible for that
list.  Mailman's I18N is not very robust in this respect, and it
may take some time to fix.

Tokio, is it possible that you could just default the error policy for
codecs as "replace" for charsets that are known to be prone to "vendor
extension"?  And add an option for the set of "replace-able" charsets
to be set by the list admin?


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Apr  6 05:05:53 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 22:05:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Language encoding and digests...
In-Reply-To: <878xd6ryed.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <46155E11.2050107@greenacrestechnology.com>
	<461563D0.9080007@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
	<878xd6ryed.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06240507c23b692c57e9@[192.168.132.151]>

At 12:10 PM +0900 4/6/07, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>  In the short run, you probably should disable digestible for that
>  list.  Mailman's I18N is not very robust in this respect, and it
>  may take some time to fix.

More importantly, I'm not sure where the bug is.  If this is a 
problem in the handling of charsets in the mail package within Python 
or within Python itself, then that's a deeper problem than Mailman. 
In that case, we can try to find a way to work around it better than 
we've done in the past, but I'm not sure we can actually "fix" it.

Tokio?

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Apr  6 11:02:27 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 18:02:27 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Language encoding and digests...
In-Reply-To: <p06240507c23b692c57e9@[192.168.132.151]>
References: <46155E11.2050107@greenacrestechnology.com>
	<461563D0.9080007@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
	<878xd6ryed.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06240507c23b692c57e9@[192.168.132.151]>
Message-ID: <871wixswnw.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brad Knowles writes:

 > At 12:10 PM +0900 4/6/07, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
 > 
 > >  In the short run, you probably should disable digestible for that
 > >  list.  Mailman's I18N is not very robust in this respect, and it
 > >  may take some time to fix.
 > 
 > More importantly, I'm not sure where the bug is.  If this is a 
 > problem in the handling of charsets in the mail package within Python 
 > or within Python itself, then that's a deeper problem than Mailman. 
 > In that case, we can try to find a way to work around it better than 
 > we've done in the past, but I'm not sure we can actually "fix" it.

No, this is a problem that Mailman can handle, at least in theory.
I'm not familiar enough with Python codecs to deny that Python's codec
API and implementation may admit some improvements we'd like to see,
ditto the email module's usage of codecs.  However, Mailman can
definitely catch the UnicodeError that the codec throws, and shunt or
munge the offending message (eg, replace unknown characters).  For
safety's sake, save off a copy, maybe.  This doesn't have to shut down
even the affected list's digests, and should not.


From problem_python at yahoo.co.in  Fri Apr  6 13:04:16 2007
From: problem_python at yahoo.co.in (python python)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 12:04:16 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscriber problem
Message-ID: <759171.51783.qm@web94214.mail.in2.yahoo.com>

Hi 

I have mailman 2.1.8. along with postfix. Everything
is fine. now from few days i watching few of my
sunscriber from list automatic get unsubscribe,
without knowing anyone. Could you tel me the causes
??? On membership list i am finding B option in nomail
reason??? whats this???


		
__________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Answers: Share what you know. Learn something new
http://in.answers.yahoo.com/

From barry at python.org  Fri Apr  6 15:17:20 2007
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 09:17:20 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Language encoding and digests...
In-Reply-To: <871wixswnw.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <46155E11.2050107@greenacrestechnology.com>
	<461563D0.9080007@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
	<878xd6ryed.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06240507c23b692c57e9@[192.168.132.151]>
	<871wixswnw.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <05868FEC-B17F-4AF7-B54A-C4C809F1A214@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Apr 6, 2007, at 5:02 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> No, this is a problem that Mailman can handle, at least in theory.
> I'm not familiar enough with Python codecs to deny that Python's codec
> API and implementation may admit some improvements we'd like to see,
> ditto the email module's usage of codecs.  However, Mailman can
> definitely catch the UnicodeError that the codec throws, and shunt or
> munge the offending message (eg, replace unknown characters).  For
> safety's sake, save off a copy, maybe.  This doesn't have to shut down
> even the affected list's digests, and should not.

+1
- -Barry

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin)

iQCVAwUBRhZIYHEjvBPtnXfVAQJfpAQAs4N8KN4ghGebh3p/sNeuWRiTOB8Nz5EQ
OMi064RzRXpp8AbvzUD32n/8VPtFl7LfNFGqVxamCfS1+pHPxcIwWLW+TOG2dhRa
eMXw6l5ibqpk2Iqm/8uQQcuBEwo8tpZxxeXnldH2WdL+lhqa7qBtZx6/zaHvzGBu
rtW2gyr24WU=
=z5lT
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From billb at mousa.uk.com  Fri Apr  6 15:28:52 2007
From: billb at mousa.uk.com (Bill Bedford)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 14:28:52 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription confirmation
Message-ID: <20070406142852538607.4a51ae6c@mousa.uk.com>

Can some tell me, please, where I can increase the time allowed for 
subscription confirmations?


-- 
Bill Bedford

"Nothing is as important as model railways and even that isn't very 
important" 

-some wiseguy somewhere 

From rbartholomew at mcclatchyinteractive.com  Fri Apr  6 16:07:15 2007
From: rbartholomew at mcclatchyinteractive.com (Robin Bartholomew)
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 10:07:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] /var/mailman/cron/checkdbs
Message-ID: <46165413.6060505@mcclatchyinteractive.com>

I am trying to track down the cause of the following error message and 
have been quite unsuccessful.  Has anyone dealt with this or something 
similar before?  I thought the number of pending requests might have 
been too large on some of the lists; however I am still receiving the 
error after purging the pending requests.

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 178, in ?
    main()
  File "/var/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 109, in main
    text += '\n' + pending_requests(mlist)
  File "/var/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 128, in pending_requests
    for id in mlist.GetSubscriptionIds():
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 140, in GetSubscriptionIds
    return self.__getmsgids(SUBSCRIPTION)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 132, in __getmsgids
    ids = [k for k, (op, data) in self.__db.items() if op == rtype]
ValueError: unpack tuple of wrong size


Thank you for any information you might have.

-- 
Robin D. Bartholomew


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Fri Apr  6 16:49:29 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 07:49:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscriber problem
In-Reply-To: <759171.51783.qm@web94214.mail.in2.yahoo.com>
References: <759171.51783.qm@web94214.mail.in2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200704061452.l36EpP4v029055@unreal.eroded.org>

python python sent the message below at 04:04 4/6/2007:
>Hi
>
>I have mailman 2.1.8. along with postfix. Everything
>is fine. now from few days i watching few of my
>sunscriber from list automatic get unsubscribe,
>without knowing anyone. Could you tel me the causes
>??? On membership list i am finding B option in nomail
>reason??? whats this???
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

This means that the subscriber's e-mail address is bouncing. In other 
words, the addresses are returning either permanent or transient 
errors (unknown user, mailbox full, etc.)

Mailman keeps track of these errors and disables delivery to these 
addresses until the problem is resolved.

Go to the list admin page and select Bounce Processing. There is a 
description on that page of how this works and you can configure when 
or if it is triggered. You can shut off the bounce processing, but 
this is not recommended for a number of reasons.


Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From i_was_yah00ed at yahoo.com  Fri Apr  6 17:19:27 2007
From: i_was_yah00ed at yahoo.com (No One)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 08:19:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman scripts running with wrong group
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200704052005560015aa8faea7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <429023.74818.qm@web34804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Sorry, I did not realize that I was not replying to the group. It is this stupid browser based mail reader I have to use. The reply all apparently doesn't work. The problem is my ISP, for some reason, cannot send anything from me to mail.python.org. After 3 days I get a bounced mail telling me the server is not responding. I wrote to the admins (fortuantely one had a non-python address) and they checked the log and found all kinds of mail coming through from other users with the same ISP. They suggested it was my ISP. Probably is but my ISP says everything is fine (I bet they didn't even check). Anyway, I can't use my normal address or my normal reader. Again I am sorry and just didn't realize it was not working. Welcome to my world of frustration. I even wind up getting those trying to help me PO'ed.

Now for the good news. I got it working. It apparenlty was a corrupt postfix rpm. In a frustrated desperate attempt to do SOMETHING, I uninstalled postscript and then reinstalled it. As bizzare as it may sound, that fixed the problem. The only difference is that rather then installing it from CD, I installed it from one of the Mandriva mirrors. Partly my fault, I should have suspected something like this sooner. This is the 2nd rmp on that CD that proved to be problematic. They are in the trash now.

Thanks again for your help, especially narrowing it down to postfix.

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
A large part of my frustration is the fact that not once have you
copied the list in any of your replies. This says to me that you don't
want help from the community, just from me.


>However, I did read and comprehend the FAQ. Let me restate that this is Mandriva which is apparently different then the version you are using.


And let me restate that I just referred you to the FAQ for an
understanding of the problem, not for a solution.

And, of course Mandravia is different which is why the first two
paragraphs of 
say


This mailing list is for site administrators, list administrators, list
moderators, and other parties interested in the operations and
maintenance of the Mailman mailing list management system, as provided
for download via the resources shown at
http://www.list.org/download.html. There is a separate mailing list
for people interested in discussion about development of the system -
mailman-developers.

Unofficially, we will try to provide what support we can for versions
of Mailman that come from other sources (e.g., vendor-provided binary
packages, vendor-provided pre-installed software, etc...), but there
will be a limit to the level of support that we can provide for
versions of Mailman other than those which were built directly from
code downloaded directly from the resources shown at
http://www.list.org/download.html.



>1. The paths used are not per mailman documentation (this is one of the many things that frustrates me about Mandriva). It took a while to figure out that the mailman installation directory is seperate from the data directory but I accomplished that before starting this thread:
>      /usr/lib/mailman - install
>      /var/lib/mailman - data
>
>2. The aliases files in /var/lib/mailman/data are and always have had a group of 'mailman'. Changing the user and group to 'mail', instead of 'mailman' didn't help nor had I really expected it to. Remember, the error message said the group used was 'nogroup'. No files associated with mailman anywhere have that group.


Are these files the only place where your Mailman aliases appear? If
so, and if the user:group of these (aliases and aliases.db) files are
mail:mail and yet Postfix is still executing the wrapper as group
'nogroup', then there is something about your Postfix or its
configuration that is different from most others who've had this
problem.


>3. That postfix executes the pipe based on the group of the aliases file is very peculiar to me. I am not aware of anything in postfix that would do that nor is there anything in the documentation to indicate that. Of the various Unix flavors I've worked with this is the first I heard that and it seems that at least with Mandriva, OS X, HPUX, AIX and Unicos that is not the case. However, this is clearly not the problem because 'nogroup' is not associated with either postfix or mailman files.


So where does 'nogroup' come from? Is the 'mail' group a registered
group?

Another user has recently posted in this thread at

that the user:group under which the pipe is run are determined by the
ownership of the aliases.db file. There are other archived posts that
confirm this is true.

I don't use Postfix, nor do I know much about it, so I can't confirm
this from personal experience, nor have I been able to find it in
Postfix documentation either, but in every case I've seen on this list
that has followed through to resolution, that has been the case.


>Unforutnately I cannot find anyone that seems to be running mailman on Mandriva, or at least anyone running it that will at reply on the Mandriva forums. This was the whole purpose of this thread. I don't have a clue where that group is coming from and it is becoming painfully obvious, to me anyway, that this is not really a mailman problem.


You could just download the source and configure and install it. It
would probably be a lot less work than trying to make this rpm work.


-- 
Mark Sapiro        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



 
---------------------------------
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels 
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.

From aym-slm at teaser.fr  Fri Apr  6 16:55:13 2007
From: aym-slm at teaser.fr (Andre Majorel)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 16:55:13 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Temporarily rejecting all attempts to post
Message-ID: <20070406145513.GB30518@aym.net2.nerim.net>

Looking for something similar to emergency moderation but where
attempts to post are rejected as opposed to forewarded for
moderation. If you attempt to post, you get a bounce saying that
posting is temporarily disabled on this list. This happens
automatically, without anyone having to do anything.

Since there's this TODO, I suppose not but I thought I'd ask :

| - Allow a list to be marked `disabled' so things like the replybot
|   still works, and the archives are still available, but mail
|   posted to the list is always returned unsent.

-- 
Andr? Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
Do not use this account for regular correspondence.
See the URL above for contact information.

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr  6 18:07:11 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 09:07:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription confirmation
In-Reply-To: <20070406142852538607.4a51ae6c@mousa.uk.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704060907110906b584d235@msapiro>

Bill Bedford wrote:

>Can some tell me, please, where I can increase the time allowed for 
>subscription confirmations?


Set PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE in mm_cfg.py. The default is

PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE = days(3)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr  6 18:16:20 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 09:16:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] /var/mailman/cron/checkdbs
In-Reply-To: <46165413.6060505@mcclatchyinteractive.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704060916200546bc35f596@msapiro>

Robin Bartholomew wrote:

>I am trying to track down the cause of the following error message and 
>have been quite unsuccessful.  Has anyone dealt with this or something 
>similar before?  I thought the number of pending requests might have 
>been too large on some of the lists; however I am still receiving the 
>error after purging the pending requests.
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/var/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 178, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/var/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 109, in main
>    text += '\n' + pending_requests(mlist)
>  File "/var/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 128, in pending_requests
>    for id in mlist.GetSubscriptionIds():
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 140, in GetSubscriptionIds
>    return self.__getmsgids(SUBSCRIPTION)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 132, in __getmsgids
>    ids = [k for k, (op, data) in self.__db.items() if op == rtype]
>ValueError: unpack tuple of wrong size


This error is produced by a corrupt request.pck, not pending.pck. There
are reports of this from time to time, so possibly there is a bug
somewhere that causes the corruption.

It might help to find the underlying problem if you could move the
offending request.pck aside, and dump it with bin/dumpdb, and report
the dumpdb output.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From igoldste at gw.neric.org  Fri Apr  6 18:50:43 2007
From: igoldste at gw.neric.org (Ira Goldstein)
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 12:50:43 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts
Message-ID: <46164223.D1AB.0042.0@gw.neric.org>

Hi.  I'm using Mailman with postfix on SUSE, and have gotten to the point where mail to list at dom1.ain and mail to list2 at dom2.ain distribute correctly (and even show up in the appropriate list of lists in dom1.ain/mailman/listinfo and dom2.ainmailman/listinfo .  The problem that I am encountering is if the host is dom1.ain and the virtual is dom2.ain, when I send mail to list2 at dom2.ain, it appears as if it is coming from list2 at dom1.ain,  even after changing the reply_goes_to_list to Explicit address of list at dom2.ain.

Is there a way that mail to  lists on dom2.ain appears as if it comes from dom2.ain, while keeping mail to lists at dom1.ain appearing as if it comes from dom1.ain?

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.
--Ira


-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: Ira.VCF
Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20070406/6087d286/attachment.asc 

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr  6 19:51:47 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 10:51:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts
In-Reply-To: <46164223.D1AB.0042.0@gw.neric.org>
Message-ID: <PC176020070406105147018746b1cfaa@msapiro>

Ira Goldstein wrote:
>
>Is there a way that mail to  lists on dom2.ain appears as if it comes from
>dom2.ain, while keeping mail to lists at dom1.ain appearing as if it comes
>from dom1.ain?


If the list's host_name attributes on the General Options page ("Host
name this list prefers for email." near the bottom of the page)
reflect the correct virtual domain, then the issue is that your
outgoing MTA is rewriting the domain.


If the host_name attributes are not correct, then you need to look at
your add_virtualhost() directives and perhaps run fix_url (Mailman's
bin/fix_url.py).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rbartholomew at mcclatchyinteractive.com  Fri Apr  6 21:51:46 2007
From: rbartholomew at mcclatchyinteractive.com (Robin Bartholomew)
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 15:51:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] /var/mailman/cron/checkdbs
In-Reply-To: <46169E56.4040508@value.net>
References: <PC1760200704060916200546bc35f596@msapiro>
	<46169981.6030107@mcclatchyinteractive.com>
	<46169E56.4040508@value.net>
Message-ID: <4616A4D2.8070201@mcclatchyinteractive.com>

Mark,

Thank you.  The added print statement narrowed the offending request.pck 
down very quickly.  I am posting the solution to the list so other 
non-python programmer can make use of this useful information.

Problem: cron/checkdbs error.

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/var/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 178, in ?
    main()
  File "/var/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 109, in main
    text += '\n' + pending_requests(mlist)
  File "/var/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 128, in pending_requests
    for id in mlist.GetSubscriptionIds():
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 140, in GetSubscriptionIds
    return self.__getmsgids(SUBSCRIPTION)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 132, in __getmsgids
    ids = [k for k, (op, data) in self.__db.items() if op == rtype]
ValueError: unpack tuple of wrong size

Cause: corrupt request.pck file in one of the lists
Mark's Solution: Find these lines in cron/checkdbs near the beginning of 
the defininton of main()

    for name in Utils.list_names():
        # the list must be locked in order to open the requests database
        mlist = MailList.MailList(name)
        try:

and add a line to make it

    for name in Utils.list_names():
        print >> sys.stderr, 'Processing list %s' % name
        # the list must be locked in order to open the requests database
        mlist = MailList.MailList(name)
        try:

Then you can run cron/checkdbs by hand and the last 'Processing list 
<name>' that appears is the bad one. Then you can remove the added line 
and look at that lists request.pck.

Thank you again!

Robin D. Bartholomew




From janedoe at mardiweb.com  Sat Apr  7 01:16:00 2007
From: janedoe at mardiweb.com (janedoe at mardiweb.com)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 16:16:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two Problems with Mailman
Message-ID: <20070406231603.8C0341E4006@bag.python.org>

My first problem is that the program seems to be inserting a carriage return
at 80 characters in the archives and in the digests.  This is causing URL's
to be truncated and has elicited a lot of complaints from my users.

The second is not really a problem, but a request.  Is there any way to sort
the archives by date in descending order rather than ascending order?  It
makes no sense for the newest posts to be at the bottom of the list.

Thanks.

Jane Doe

From raquel at thericehouse.net  Sat Apr  7 02:02:49 2007
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 17:02:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two Problems with Mailman
In-Reply-To: <20070406231603.8C0341E4006@bag.python.org>
References: <20070406231603.8C0341E4006@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <20070406170249.60621cef.raquel@thericehouse.net>

On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 16:16:00 -0700
<janedoe at mardiweb.com> wrote:

> 
> The second is not really a problem, but a request.  Is there any
> way to sort the archives by date in descending order rather than
> ascending order?  It makes no sense for the newest posts to be at
> the bottom of the list.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Jane Doe
> 

And yet, that's the way most of us read, from top to bottom.

-- 
Raquel
============================================================
Violence is anything that denies human integrity, and leads to
hopelessness and helplessness.
  --Martin Luther King, Jr.


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Apr  7 02:04:21 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 17:04:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two Problems with Mailman
In-Reply-To: <20070406231603.8C0341E4006@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704061704210015ae1890a4@msapiro>

<janedoe at mardiweb.com> wrote:

>My first problem is that the program seems to be inserting a carriage return
>at 80 characters in the archives and in the digests.  This is causing URL's
>to be truncated and has elicited a lot of complaints from my users.


See
<https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1495122&group_id=103&atid=100103>
for a description of the problem that I think is probably causing this
and a patch to fix it.


>The second is not really a problem, but a request.  Is there any way to sort
>the archives by date in descending order rather than ascending order?  It
>makes no sense for the newest posts to be at the bottom of the list.


I suggest that it does make sense to some people, particularly those
who like to read the question before the answer, however, to answer
your question, no there is not a way short of modifying the archiving
code.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Sat Apr  7 02:09:54 2007
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 19:09:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two Problems with Mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200704061704210015ae1890a4@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200704061704210015ae1890a4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <E1C6A0D4-BCF9-4F1F-99AA-391E69B0C052@goldmark.org>

On Apr 6, 2007, at 7:04 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> See
> <https://sourceforge.net/tracker/ 
> index.phpfunc=detail&aid=1495122&group_id=103&atid=100103>
> for a description of the problem that I think is probably causing this
> and a patch to fix it.

>> It
>> makes no sense for the newest posts to be at the bottom of the list.
>
> I suggest that it does make sense to some people, particularly those
> who like to read the question before the answer,


Somebody has to point out that the link you gave points to a  
discussion in which the most recent contribution is at the top.

Cheers,

-j


-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Apr  7 02:18:56 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 17:18:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two Problems with Mailman
In-Reply-To: <E1C6A0D4-BCF9-4F1F-99AA-391E69B0C052@goldmark.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704061718560593a6ac54e9@msapiro>

Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:
>
>Somebody has to point out that the link you gave points to a  
>discussion in which the most recent contribution is at the top.


I'm aware of that, but it's the SourceForge tracker, not mine.

I would have added "You'll enjoy reading the comment thread from the
bottom up" to my post, but I didn't think of that until after I'd sent
it. Thanks for the second chance. :-)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Apr  7 04:28:25 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 11:28:25 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Two Problems with Mailman
In-Reply-To: <20070406231603.8C0341E4006@bag.python.org>
References: <20070406231603.8C0341E4006@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <87slbcrk8m.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

janedoe at mardiweb.com writes:

 > The second is not really a problem, but a request.  Is there any
 > way to sort the archives by date in descending order rather than
 > ascending order?  It makes no sense for the newest posts to be at
 > the bottom of the list.

This is a Your Mileage May Vary king of thing.  The answer is to get
an archiver more suited to your use case.  Mailman is designed to
allow interfacing to all kinds of useful utilities (and will become
even more so in Mailman 3, all hail Barry!), so it can concentrate on
subscriber management (especially self-management of subscriptions) and
on distribution.

In the interest of getting people off the ground fast, it does provide
a number of additional utilities (in particular, the archiver, but
also spam-filtering, etc).  However, these are not the main focus, so
simple implementations are all you get in the Mailman package.  AFAIK
there are no concrete plans to improve the archiver; rather to
concentrate on making use of 3rd party archivers easier.  (I'm sure
contributions would be accepted, of course, but it's not the
developers' main priority.)

A lot of people like MHonArc as the archiver, but I don't know if it
provides a most-recent-first summary page.  There are more
database-like archivers that provide user options (sorry, no reference
offhand) such as sorting order.


From boettiger at pobox.com  Sat Apr  7 06:28:13 2007
From: boettiger at pobox.com (Adam Boettiger)
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 21:28:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nth post moderation?
Message-ID: <46171DDD.2000307@pobox.com>

I see from the FAQ that it is possible to set all list 
member settings to moderated. I also see that it is possible 
to set the privacy settings such that future new subscribers 
have the moderated flag. What I don't see is if it is 
possible to do what I want, which is to set the settings 
such that for all new subscribers the first five posts or N 
posts are moderated, after which the moderated flag is removed.

Is this possible to do?

From bill at glacierwa.com  Sat Apr  7 08:45:16 2007
From: bill at glacierwa.com (Bill Loy)
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 23:45:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unknown User
Message-ID: <1175928316.4995.43.camel@apollo.glacierwa.com>

I have set up mailman on a server with postfix, I duplicated the
settings (I think I got them all the same) from the old server which was
working fine, but now when i send an e-mail to my list I get back a
mailer-deamon 
<list at domain.name>: unknown user: "list"

Any ideas??

Bill


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Apr  7 16:52:59 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 07:52:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nth post moderation?
In-Reply-To: <46171DDD.2000307@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704070752590265ad940d24@msapiro>

Adam Boettiger wrote:

>What I don't see is if it is 
>possible to do what I want, which is to set the settings 
>such that for all new subscribers the first five posts or N 
>posts are moderated, after which the moderated flag is removed.
>
>Is this possible to do?


Not automatically. After approving the Nth post, you have to manually
clear the moderate flag, but if you approve the post via the web
admindb interface, there is a check box to clear the flag at the same
time you approve the post, so all you need to do is count to N and
remember to check the box.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Apr  7 16:58:24 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 07:58:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unknown User
In-Reply-To: <1175928316.4995.43.camel@apollo.glacierwa.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007040707582408125b3cdcc4@msapiro>

Bill Loy wrote:

>I have set up mailman on a server with postfix, I duplicated the
>settings (I think I got them all the same) from the old server which was
>working fine, but now when i send an e-mail to my list I get back a
>mailer-deamon 
><list at domain.name>: unknown user: "list"


Did you set up Mailman-Postfix integration as described at
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html> or otherwise create
Postfix aliases for Mailman?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From boettiger at pobox.com  Sat Apr  7 17:56:43 2007
From: boettiger at pobox.com (Adam Boettiger)
Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 08:56:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages not being removed from server in IMAP mode
Message-ID: <4617BF3B.8060007@pobox.com>

I've checked settings in both prefs and each account but 
when I delete a message in an IMAP account in TB other mail 
clients are still downloading it later on. Is there a 
setting that I've missed that is causing messages to remain 
on the server?

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Apr  7 18:02:37 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 11:02:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages not being removed from server in IMAP
 mode
In-Reply-To: <4617BF3B.8060007@pobox.com>
References: <4617BF3B.8060007@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <p06240500c23d70b51ec7@[192.168.132.149]>

At 8:56 AM -0700 4/7/07, Adam Boettiger wrote:

>  I've checked settings in both prefs and each account but
>  when I delete a message in an IMAP account in TB other mail
>  clients are still downloading it later on. Is there a
>  setting that I've missed that is causing messages to remain
>  on the server?

This is an IMAP question, and has nothing to do with Mailman.

Find out what IMAP software you're using on the client or the server, 
and that should give you a clue as to what other FAQs, documentation, 
mailing list archives, etc... that you can use to try to obtain 
assistance.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From boettiger at pobox.com  Sat Apr  7 18:20:33 2007
From: boettiger at pobox.com (Adam Boettiger)
Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 09:20:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages not being removed from server in IMAP
 mode
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c23d70b51ec7@[192.168.132.149]>
References: <4617BF3B.8060007@pobox.com>
	<p06240500c23d70b51ec7@[192.168.132.149]>
Message-ID: <4617C4D1.5060006@pobox.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> This is an IMAP question, and has nothing to do with Mailman.

So sorry. It's early and haven't had the first cup of coffee 
yet. That was meant for the Thunderbird Support list...

From boettiger at pobox.com  Sat Apr  7 19:30:04 2007
From: boettiger at pobox.com (Adam Boettiger)
Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 10:30:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Standard address protocol for joining by email?
Message-ID: <4617D51C.2070305@pobox.com>

I checked the FAQ and found no entry for this. I assume it 
is probably a very standard question so admins may want to 
add to the FAQ.

Is there a standard address protocol for list members who 
wish to join a mailman list by email without using the web 
form? I have tried 'join-listname at domain.com' and it didn't 
install as a joining address on mailman.

Thanks

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Apr  7 20:16:38 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 11:16:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Standard address protocol for joining by email?
In-Reply-To: <4617D51C.2070305@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704071116380640c6d4ca66@msapiro>

Adam Boettiger wrote:
>
>Is there a standard address protocol for list members who 
>wish to join a mailman list by email without using the web 
>form? I have tried 'join-listname at domain.com' and it didn't 
>install as a joining address on mailman.


Any email to listname-join at example.com or
listname-subscribe at example.com or an email with 'subscribe' as the
subject or body to listname-request at example.com.

See the List Member Manual at
<http://www.list.org/mailman-member/index.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bill at glacierwa.com  Sat Apr  7 20:27:50 2007
From: bill at glacierwa.com (Bill Loy)
Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 11:27:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unknown User
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007040707582408125b3cdcc4@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007040707582408125b3cdcc4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1175970470.4995.64.camel@apollo.glacierwa.com>

I checked and it is set up there as per the instructions, I also tried
re-installing mailman just in case

Bill
On Sat, 2007-04-07 at 07:58 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Bill Loy wrote:
> 
> >I have set up mailman on a server with postfix, I duplicated the
> >settings (I think I got them all the same) from the old server which was
> >working fine, but now when i send an e-mail to my list I get back a
> >mailer-deamon 
> ><list at domain.name>: unknown user: "list"
> 
> 
> Did you set up Mailman-Postfix integration as described at
> <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html> or otherwise create
> Postfix aliases for Mailman?
> 


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Apr  7 20:49:04 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 11:49:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unknown User
In-Reply-To: <1175970470.4995.64.camel@apollo.glacierwa.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007040711490405784e769166@msapiro>

Bill Loy wrote:

>I checked and it is set up there as per the instructions, I also tried
>re-installing mailman just in case

It is not a Mailman issue, it is a Postfix configuration issue. Postfix
is not seeing the alias for <list at domain.name>.

If the aliases are in Mailman's data/aliases, and postalias has been
run to update aliases.db (you could run Mailman's bin/genaliases to
make sure aliases and aliases.db are up to date), and Mailman's
data/aliases is referenced in Postfix's alias_maps, then this is some
other Postfix issue which might better be persued on a Postfix list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From billb at mousa.uk.com  Sun Apr  8 08:55:34 2007
From: billb at mousa.uk.com (Bill Bedford)
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 07:55:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] confirmation problems
Message-ID: <20070408075534041491.37990884@mousa.uk.com>

I am getting a number of confirmations failing with SMTP errors similar 
to this

Out: 220 mousa.uk.com ESMTP Postfix
 In:  HELO smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com
 Out: 250 mousa.uk.com
 In:  MAIL FROM:<xxxxxxxx at btopenworld.com>
 Out: 250 Ok
 In:  RCPT
     
TO:<bbmodels-confirm+9cb3f11ed497099e1a64a5c4e87f08dee4b6448e at mousa.uk.com>
 Out: 550
     
<bbmodels-confirm+9cb3f11ed497099e1a64a5c4e87f08dee4b6448e at mousa.uk.com>:
     Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table
 In:  QUIT


I presume this is a mailer (Outlook?) problem, but can anyone suggest a 
work around?


-- 
Bill Bedford

"Nothing is as important as model railways and even that isn't very 
important" 

-some wiseguy somewhere 

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Apr  8 10:59:34 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 17:59:34 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  confirmation problems
In-Reply-To: <20070408075534041491.37990884@mousa.uk.com>
References: <20070408075534041491.37990884@mousa.uk.com>
Message-ID: <871wivqm15.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Bill Bedford writes:
 > I am getting a number of confirmations failing with SMTP errors similar 
 > to this
 > 
 > Out: 220 mousa.uk.com ESMTP Postfix

Your mailer is Postfix, good ...

 >  In:  HELO smtp806.mail.ukl.yahoo.com
 >  Out: 250 mousa.uk.com
 >  In:  MAIL FROM:<xxxxxxxx at btopenworld.com>
 >  Out: 250 Ok
 >  In:  RCPT TO:<bbmodels-confirm+9cb3f11ed497099e1a64a5c4e87f08dee4b6448e at mousa.uk.com>
 >  Out: 550 <bbmodels-confirm+9cb3f11ed497099e1a64a5c4e87f08dee4b6448e at mousa.uk.com>:
 >      Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table
 >  In:  QUIT

 > I presume this is a mailer (Outlook?) problem, but can anyone suggest a 
 > work around?

This is almost certainly a Postfix problem.  The feature that
recognizes "additional data" in the mailbox name (ie, the
"+9cb3f11e..." confirmation code) is apparently turned off.

Or it's possible that your aliases are configured incorrectly so that
"bbmodels-confirm" is not recognized as a local address.


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Sun Apr  8 15:34:51 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 09:34:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] confirmation problems
In-Reply-To: <871wivqm15.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <20070408075534041491.37990884@mousa.uk.com>
	<871wivqm15.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <4618EF7B.9070209@xcski.com>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Bill Bedford writes:

>  > I presume this is a mailer (Outlook?) problem, but can anyone suggest a 
>  > work around?
> 
> This is almost certainly a Postfix problem.  The feature that
> recognizes "additional data" in the mailbox name (ie, the
> "+9cb3f11e..." confirmation code) is apparently turned off.
> 
To expand on that, in /etc/postfix/main.cf, you need to have:
recipient_delimiter = +

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com>
"Stay calm, be brave, and wait for the signs!"

From dave at ddwsvcs.com  Sun Apr  8 18:43:03 2007
From: dave at ddwsvcs.com (David Devereaux-Weber, P.E.)
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 11:43:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Installing Mailman 2.1.9 on
 Solaris 10
In-Reply-To: <200704041548.l34FmGdo018608@julie.lostwells.net>
References: <200704041548.l34FmGdo018608@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <46191B97.3050505@ddwsvcs.com>

Hank,

I'm still not succeeding in building Mailman.  I'd like to follow 
another path.  Can you explain why Tcl/TK don't build?  The Python make 
install command fatals there, and doesn't complete copying some of the 
modules into the right places.

Dave

vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:
> The esteemed David Devereaux-Weber has said:
>> Hank,
>>
>> Thanks for your help!
>>
>> I installed Python 2.4.4.  I did receive errors that tcl and something 
>> else didn't install.  Now, the Mailman install script still finds 
>> /opt/csw/lib/python2.3/distutils/dist.py:213 .  Can you tell me where 
>> Python 2.4.4 puts the distutils?
>>
>> Dave
>>
> If you built python 2.4.4 to install in /usr/local, you should have a
> /usr/local/lib/python2.4 directory that has the distutils in it.  
> 
> I assume you're building Mailman 2.1.9 from downloaded source; if not,
> I recommend you do that, rather than using somebody else's prebuilt
> source.  
> 
> Make sure the correct python is in your PATH.  If you've already built
> Mailman with the /opt/csw python2.3, do a make clean, rerun configure,
> make, and make install on Mailman.  
> 
> As I've said, /opt/csw is not a Solaris 10 directory, but is used by
> one or more of the package prebuilders.  I would do an audit on what
> is in that directory and pkgrm anything you don't actually need on
> your system.  
> 
> Using the Solaris release sendmail and apache works well, but I'd
> build Python 2.4.4 and Mailman 2.1.9 from source.  The default gid for
> sendmail is "other" and for apache is "nobody", for the Mailman
> configure script on Solaris 9/10.
> 
> Hank

-- 

David Devereaux-Weber, P.E.
DDW Services
dave at ddwsvcs.com
(608)576-2599
<http://ddwsvcs.com>

From ptomblin at xcski.com  Sun Apr  8 21:39:48 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 15:39:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No hitches
Message-ID: <46194504.9030301@xcski.com>

Debian just marked Debian 4.0 (etch) as stable, so I upgrade my Debian 
3.1 (sarge) colo box to Debian 4.0.  Along the way, it upgraded Mailman 
from 2.1.5 to 2.1.9.  Just wanted to let anybody else contemplating such 
an upgrade that it went without a hitch.  The stage where it says 
"Updating old qfiles" takes rather a long time, but it eventually 
finishes.  Mail continues to flow, the web interface works, the archives 
work.


-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com>
"Stay calm, be brave, and wait for the signs!"

From rowan at sylvester-bradley.org  Mon Apr  9 00:40:00 2007
From: rowan at sylvester-bradley.org (Rowan Sylvester-Bradley)
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 23:40:00 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Locking mailbox files
Message-ID: <46196F40.5020904@sylvester-bradley.org>

Hi,

Does Mailman need to lock Mailbox files? If so, how does it do so?

My hosting company runs Mailman. I'm writing a script which modifies my
mailbox files to delete old messages, and I need to be able to lock the
files before I do so to stop any other process from trying to modify
them at the same time. The way that Mailman does this may give me a clue
how to do it...

Thanks - Rowan




From ptomblin at xcski.com  Mon Apr  9 00:54:15 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 18:54:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Privacy policy
Message-ID: <46197297.3050909@xcski.com>

Juno and NetZero are refusing email from my mailing list server because 
they think that 25 messages over the course of 3 days makes me some sort 
of spammer.  They're refusing to whitelist me until I can provide a link 
to a "Privacy Policy" and "Terms of Service".  Has anybody else 
encountered this, and do you have samples of those two documents, and 
information how to embed this in my mailman listinfo page?


-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com>
"Stay calm, be brave, and wait for the signs!"

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr  9 01:34:31 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 16:34:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Locking mailbox files
In-Reply-To: <46196F40.5020904@sylvester-bradley.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704081634310656176ff76f@msapiro>

Rowan Sylvester-Bradley wrote:
>
>Does Mailman need to lock Mailbox files? If so, how does it do so?


Mailman locks lists, not Mailbox files.


>My hosting company runs Mailman. I'm writing a script which modifies my
>mailbox files to delete old messages, and I need to be able to lock the
>files before I do so to stop any other process from trying to modify
>them at the same time. The way that Mailman does this may give me a clue
>how to do it...


Locks are generally implemented as lock files. I.e. to lock a file
named /a/b/c, attempt to create /a/b/c.lock (or some other file whose
name is a function of /a/b/c). If that file doesn't already exist, you
can access /a/b/c and then remove /a/b/c.lock when you have commited
your changes. If it does already exist, the resource is locked by
another process; you have to wait and retry.

This scheme relies on every process wanting access to the resource
obeying the same rules and using the same lockfile name. Fortunately,
this is usually the case for Mailbox files. See

man lockfile

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Mon Apr  9 02:31:19 2007
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 19:31:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Privacy policy
In-Reply-To: <46197297.3050909@xcski.com>
References: <46197297.3050909@xcski.com>
Message-ID: <BF7E1261-9805-437E-829B-FAB3D9DCC6D3@goldmark.org>

[mailed and posted]

On Apr 8, 2007, at 5:54 PM, Paul Tomblin wrote:

> Juno and NetZero are refusing email from my mailing list server  
> because
> they think that 25 messages over the course of 3 days makes me some  
> sort
> of spammer.  They're refusing to whitelist me until I can provide a  
> link
> to a "Privacy Policy" and "Terms of Service".  Has anybody else
> encountered this, and do you have samples of those two documents, and
> information how to embed this in my mailman listinfo page?

I have those on the main (only) static page for my site

    http://lists.shepard-families.org/

I doubt that they are as formal as what Juno and NetZero are asking  
for.  At least you actually got to talk to someone about white listing.

For similar problems with AOL, I found that making sure that my HELO  
string had an appropriate DNS PTR record back to the same IP.   
Getting my provider, Verizon, to understand what I was asking for was  
the hard part.

-j





From igoldste at gw.neric.org  Mon Apr  9 14:33:53 2007
From: igoldste at gw.neric.org (Ira Goldstein)
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 08:33:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070406105147018746b1cfaa@msapiro>
References: <46164223.D1AB.0042.0@gw.neric.org>
	<PC176020070406105147018746b1cfaa@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4619FA71.D1AB.0042.0@gw.neric.org>

Mark --
  Hi.  The list's host_name on the web page does reflect the desired virtual host name.  I've tried the add_virtualhost as

add_virtualhost('dom2.ain', 'dom2.ain')

both with and without:

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

but did not see any difference in the system response.

I've spent the weekend reading up on postfix, but can not see where postfix is rewriting the header (I'm not saying that it isn't doing this, just that with my limited knowledge, I don't see it). 
The  local_header_rewrite_clients  in canonical is commented out (as is every line in the file).
The alias_database and local_recipient_maps are commented out in main.cf
The relocated and generic files also contains just comments

The masquerade* and virtual commands in main.cf are:
masquerade_exceptions = root
masquerade_classes = envelope_sender, header_sender, header_recipient
masquerade_domains = 
virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virt-mailman2
virtual_alias_domains = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual
virtual_mailbox_domains = dom2.ain
virtual_uid_maps = static:1001
virtual_gid_maps = static:1050
virtual_mailbox_base = /var/spool/virtual_mailboxes

Interestingly, the lists from dom2.ain appear in both /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases as well as in /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman, for example, for the list "nine":
aliases:    nine-request:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request nine"
virtual-mailman:nine-request at dom2.ain      nine-request

I tried /usr/sbin/sendmail -bv nine at dom2.ain and saw the following

Enclosed is the mail delivery report that you requested.

                        The Postfix program

<nine at dom.ain> (expanded from <nine at dom2.ain>): delivery
    via local: delivers to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post nine


 Any suggestions as to which postfix parameters to change would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
--Ira
>>> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> 4/6/2007 1:51 PM >>>
Ira Goldstein wrote:
>
>Is there a way that mail to  lists on dom2.ain appears as if it comes from
>dom2.ain, while keeping mail to lists at dom1.ain appearing as if it comes
>from dom1.ain?


If the list's host_name attributes on the General Options page ("Host
name this list prefers for email." near the bottom of the page)
reflect the correct virtual domain, then the issue is that your
outgoing MTA is rewriting the domain.


If the host_name attributes are not correct, then you need to look at
your add_virtualhost() directives and perhaps run fix_url (Mailman's
bin/fix_url.py).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: Ira.VCF
Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20070409/be59bda6/attachment.asc 

From fernando.barros at sipam.gov.br  Mon Apr  9 16:03:48 2007
From: fernando.barros at sipam.gov.br (Fernando Barros)
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 11:03:48 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman web interface does not save changes
Message-ID: <461A47C4.5060304@sipam.gov.br>

Hi Lits,

The Mailman admin web interface does not save my changes.

I've search Mailman FAQ and find a related issue 
(http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=all#4.45) which points 
that the access to the site via redirect is tossing away the POST 
changes. The workaround would be to capture the POST data from the 
original request, convert it to a GET and redirect to that.

Can anybody show me how to configure that ?

Thanks in advance.

Fernando Barros.
P.S. I am using Mailman version  2.1.9 on top of Apache/2.2.3.


From rick at niof.net  Mon Apr  9 17:37:38 2007
From: rick at niof.net (Rick Pasotto)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 11:37:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] content filtering problem
Message-ID: <20070409153738.GA32238@niof.net>

Today I received a message that had been rejected by the content
filtering system and I'm not sure why. The sections of the message were:

 I  1 <no description>                 [text/plain, 7bit, us-ascii, 0.2K]
 I  2 Toastmaster Meeting for Tmrw            [message/rfc822, 7bit, 26K]
 I  3   ><no description>                    [multipa/related, 7bit, 24K]
 I  4     ><no description>              [multipa/alternativ, 7bit, 3.7K]
 I  5       ><no description>        [text/plain, quoted, us-ascii, 0.5K]
 I  6       ><no description>         [text/html, quoted, us-ascii, 2.9K]
 I  7     >NewCiscoLogo.jpg                     [image/jpeg, base64, 20K]

In the pass_mime_types I have:

multipart/mixed
multipart/alternative
text/plain

Was the message rejected because the text/plain was quoted?

-- 
"As blushing will sometimes make a whore pass for a virtuous
 woman, so modesty may make a fool seem a man of sense."
		-- Jonathan Swift
    Rick Pasotto    rick at niof.net    http://www.niof.net

From rick at niof.net  Mon Apr  9 17:43:10 2007
From: rick at niof.net (Rick Pasotto)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 11:43:10 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message archiving problem
Message-ID: <20070409154310.GA32502@niof.net>

I have a couple of lists that I send a weekly message to. This message
has sections that I separate using a line of 60 hyphens. When the
message gets archived the sections are archived separately but only
the first has the correct subject line and the others show 'No Subject'.

Why is this happening?

-- 
"Government should be concerned with anti-social conduct,
 not with utterances." -- Justice William Orville Douglas
    Rick Pasotto    rick at niof.net    http://www.niof.net

From vancleef at lostwells.net  Mon Apr  9 19:22:08 2007
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (vancleef at lostwells.net)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 11:22:08 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Installing Mailman 2.1.9 on Solaris
In-Reply-To: <46191B97.3050505@ddwsvcs.com>
Message-ID: <200704091722.l39HM8Qn018232@julie.lostwells.net>

The esteemed David Devereaux-Weber, P.E. has said:
> 
> Hank,
> 
> I'm still not succeeding in building Mailman.  I'd like to follow 
> another path.  Can you explain why Tcl/TK don't build?  The Python make 
> install command fatals there, and doesn't complete copying some of the 
> modules into the right places.
> 
> Dave
> 
You're running into problems I haven't encountered, if you can't
install Python without tcl and ssl.  I'd suggest clearing the build
and install directories, doing a fresh unpack of the Python sources, 
and running through the build process again.  My recollection is that
both Python and Mailman will build with the gcc 3.4.2 that is in the
Solaris 10 distribution /usr/sfw directory tree, but that you have to
do some jiggery-pokery with LD_RUN_PATH, LD_LIBRARY_PATH, or crle to
get the builds to find the GNU libraries.  My installations were built
with the Sun development system (Studio 11, installs in
/opt/SUNWspro), so I haven't explored the implications of running with
a GNU build on Solaris 10 very far.

Why Python won't build with the extensions in Solaris is that the
build process doesn't look in /opt/sfw.  I've done enough porting
exploration to see that a "fix" involves adding a search to those
directories in setup.py (in the Python build base directory), but
haven't explored everything I need to know to assure that I've got an
appropriate fix.  Some queries to the Python users and Python
developers mail lists didn't produce meaningful results, and I'm left
with the feeling that "yer on yer own" with Python reliability.  What
I can tell you is that my builds of Python 2.4.4 and 2.5, using the
Sun devsys, and without doing any porting work, install and support
Mailman on my systems.  

I'd suggest capturing the outputs of the configure and make steps and
reviewing them.  Also, the various log, makefile, and status files that 
configure generates.  I'm not really prepared to wear a Python
developer hat and try to work Python-on-Solaris problems beyond
getting a Python that will support Mailman.

Hank

From dave at ddwsvcs.com  Mon Apr  9 19:29:33 2007
From: dave at ddwsvcs.com (David Devereaux-Weber)
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 12:29:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Installing Mailman 2.1.9 on Solaris
In-Reply-To: <200704091722.l39HM8Qn018232@julie.lostwells.net>
References: <200704091722.l39HM8Qn018232@julie.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <461A77FD.3020409@ddwsvcs.com>

Hank,

I finally succeeded in getting python and mailman to build and install.  
There were a series of issues.  I had an error in the path for the root 
user, and I had an error in PYTHONHOME for my user.  Since I was using 
the standard location for python, I removed PYTHONHOME, and I fixed the 
path for root (used for "make install" for python).

Thanks for your patience!

Dave

vancleef at lostwells.net wrote:

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 10 02:08:23 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 17:08:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts
In-Reply-To: <4619FA71.D1AB.0042.0@gw.neric.org>
Message-ID: <PC176020070409170823092189ef80d0@msapiro>

Ira Goldstein wrote:

>  Hi.  The list's host_name on the web page does reflect the desired
>virtual host name.


Then this is an issue with the outgoing MTA. I can't tell you what you
need to do to fix it, but I can tell you that Mailman is already using
the host_name attribute as the domain in list email addresses.


>I've tried the add_virtualhost as
>
>add_virtualhost('dom2.ain', 'dom2.ain')
>
>both with and without:
>
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>
>but did not see any difference in the system response.


If DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST are correct in Defaults.py,
then

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

in mm_cfg.py would be redundant and make no difference, but

add_virtualhost('dom2.ain', 'dom2.ain')

is required in mm_cfg.py, but it only affects newly created lists
unless you run fix_url. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.069.htp>.


>I've spent the weekend reading up on postfix, but can not see where
>postfix is rewriting the header (I'm not saying that it isn't doing this,
>just that with my limited knowledge, I don't see it).

I'm sorry, but I probably know less about Postfix than you. Perhaps
someone else on this list can help, but the best resource for this
issue is probably one dedicated to Postfix.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 10 02:24:13 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 17:24:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] content filtering problem
In-Reply-To: <20070409153738.GA32238@niof.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704091724130343bc35f4c4@msapiro>

Rick Pasotto wrote:

>Today I received a message that had been rejected by the content
>filtering system and I'm not sure why. The sections of the message were:
>
> I  1 <no description>                 [text/plain, 7bit, us-ascii, 0.2K]
> I  2 Toastmaster Meeting for Tmrw            [message/rfc822, 7bit, 26K]
> I  3   ><no description>                    [multipa/related, 7bit, 24K]
> I  4     ><no description>              [multipa/alternativ, 7bit, 3.7K]
> I  5       ><no description>        [text/plain, quoted, us-ascii, 0.5K]
> I  6       ><no description>         [text/html, quoted, us-ascii, 2.9K]
> I  7     >NewCiscoLogo.jpg                     [image/jpeg, base64, 20K]
>
>In the pass_mime_types I have:
>
>multipart/mixed
>multipart/alternative
>text/plain
>
>Was the message rejected because the text/plain was quoted?


No.

You have two problems.

What is the overall message type in the main message headers? I suspect
it was not multipart/mixed or multipart/alternative; possibly
multipart/related or some such which would cause all of its sub-parts
to be skipped because multipart/whatever is not accepted.

Further, even if the main message is multipart/mixed, you don't accept
the message/rfc822 part so the only thing left would be the initial
0.2K text/plain part.

You need to accept every multipart/ type that could possibly contain a
sub-part of interest. A better choice for pass_mime_types is

multipart
message/rfc822
text/plain

In your example above, this would pass all the multipart types
regardless of sub-type as well as the message/rfc822 part. This
doesn't mean the entire message will be passed. It just means that the
various sub-parts of those parts will be examined and the text/plain
parts accepted.

Even though the above seems very liberal, it ultimately only accepts
text/plain and elemental message/rfc822 parts, in this case only the
two text/plain parts.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Apr 10 03:27:48 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 20:27:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070409170823092189ef80d0@msapiro>
References: <PC176020070409170823092189ef80d0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240501c24097ffaf15@[192.168.132.163]>

At 5:08 PM -0700 4/9/07, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  Then this is an issue with the outgoing MTA. I can't tell you what you
>  need to do to fix it, but I can tell you that Mailman is already using
>  the host_name attribute as the domain in list email addresses.

Most likely the desired virtual host name is a CNAME alias for the 
real canonical name.  The RFCs require that all CNAME aliases be 
resolved into their true canonical names, before delivering the 
message.  The solution is to remove the CNAME records and have the 
desired virtual host name resolve directly to an IP address record 
(either an IPv4 "A" record, or an IPv6 "AAAA" record).

I believe that all this is documented in the FAQ.

>>I've spent the weekend reading up on postfix, but can not see where
>>postfix is rewriting the header (I'm not saying that it isn't doing this,
>>just that with my limited knowledge, I don't see it).
>
>  I'm sorry, but I probably know less about Postfix than you. Perhaps
>  someone else on this list can help, but the best resource for this
>  issue is probably one dedicated to Postfix.

It's not just postfix.  Sendmail does this too.  As does Exim.  And 
all other MTAs that are operating correctly according to the RFCs on 
this subject.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Apr 10 03:29:35 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 20:29:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman web interface does not save changes
In-Reply-To: <461A47C4.5060304@sipam.gov.br>
References: <461A47C4.5060304@sipam.gov.br>
Message-ID: <p06240502c24098c4dd3d@[192.168.132.163]>

At 11:03 AM -0300 4/9/07, Fernando Barros wrote:

>  I've search Mailman FAQ and find a related issue
>  (http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=all#4.45) which points
>  that the access to the site via redirect is tossing away the POST
>  changes. The workaround would be to capture the POST data from the
>  original request, convert it to a GET and redirect to that.
>
>  Can anybody show me how to configure that ?

You don't.  You eliminate the redirect instead.

See all the other FAQ entries and linked archive articles from the 
mailman-users list.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From rick at niof.net  Tue Apr 10 04:11:05 2007
From: rick at niof.net (Rick Pasotto)
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 22:11:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] content filtering problem
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200704091724130343bc35f4c4@msapiro>
References: <20070409153738.GA32238@niof.net>
	<PC1760200704091724130343bc35f4c4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20070410021105.GB5169@niof.net>

On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 05:24:13PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Rick Pasotto wrote:
> 
> >Today I received a message that had been rejected by the content
> >filtering system and I'm not sure why. The sections of the message were:
> >
> > I  1 <no description>                 [text/plain, 7bit, us-ascii, 0.2K]
> > I  2 Toastmaster Meeting for Tmrw            [message/rfc822, 7bit, 26K]
> > I  3   ><no description>                    [multipa/related, 7bit, 24K]
> > I  4     ><no description>              [multipa/alternativ, 7bit, 3.7K]
> > I  5       ><no description>        [text/plain, quoted, us-ascii, 0.5K]
> > I  6       ><no description>         [text/html, quoted, us-ascii, 2.9K]
> > I  7     >NewCiscoLogo.jpg                     [image/jpeg, base64, 20K]
> >
> >In the pass_mime_types I have:
> >
> >multipart/mixed
> >multipart/alternative
> >text/plain
> >
> >Was the message rejected because the text/plain was quoted?
> 
> No.
> 
> You have two problems.
> 
> What is the overall message type in the main message headers? I suspect
> it was not multipart/mixed or multipart/alternative; possibly
> multipart/related or some such which would cause all of its sub-parts
> to be skipped because multipart/whatever is not accepted.

I can see that I was insufficiently clear. What I posted above is the
sections of the reject message that Mailman sent me. The
'message/rfc822' appears to be Mailman's encapsulation of the original
message. From your explanation I see that the problem was that the
original message was 'multipart/related'.

> Further, even if the main message is multipart/mixed, you don't accept
> the message/rfc822 part so the only thing left would be the initial
> 0.2K text/plain part.
> 
> You need to accept every multipart/ type that could possibly contain a
> sub-part of interest. A better choice for pass_mime_types is
> 
> multipart
> message/rfc822
> text/plain
> 
> In your example above, this would pass all the multipart types
> regardless of sub-type as well as the message/rfc822 part. This
> doesn't mean the entire message will be passed. It just means that the
> various sub-parts of those parts will be examined and the text/plain
> parts accepted.
> 
> Even though the above seems very liberal, it ultimately only accepts
> text/plain and elemental message/rfc822 parts, in this case only the
> two text/plain parts.

Excellent. This is what I want. Thanks.

-- 
"Only one thing can conquer war - that attitude of mind which can see
 nothing in war but destruction and annihilation" -- Ludwig von Mises
    Rick Pasotto    rick at niof.net    http://www.niof.net

From westerpark at fastmail.fm  Tue Apr 10 13:04:41 2007
From: westerpark at fastmail.fm (Ray)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 13:04:41 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 38, Issue 18
In-Reply-To: <mailman.41.1176199209.17329.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.41.1176199209.17329.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <1176203081.4571.1183821344@webmail.messagingengine.com>


On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:00:09 +0200, mailman-users-request at python.org
said:
> Send Mailman-Users mailing list submissions to
> 	mailman-users at python.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	mailman-users-request at python.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	mailman-users-owner at python.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Mailman-Users digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Mailman web interface does not save changes (Brad Knowles)
>    2. Re: content filtering problem (Rick Pasotto)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 20:29:35 -0500
> From: Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman web interface does not save
> 	changes
> To: Fernando Barros <fernando.barros at sipam.gov.br>,
> 	mailman-users at python.org
> Message-ID: <p06240502c24098c4dd3d@[192.168.132.163]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
> 
> At 11:03 AM -0300 4/9/07, Fernando Barros wrote:
> 
> >  I've search Mailman FAQ and find a related issue
> >  (http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=all#4.45) which points
> >  that the access to the site via redirect is tossing away the POST
> >  changes. The workaround would be to capture the POST data from the
> >  original request, convert it to a GET and redirect to that.
> >
> >  Can anybody show me how to configure that ?
> 
> You don't.  You eliminate the redirect instead.
> 
> See all the other FAQ entries and linked archive articles from the 
> mailman-users list.
> 
> -- 
> Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
> LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
> Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2007 22:11:05 -0400
> From: Rick Pasotto <rick at niof.net>
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] content filtering problem
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Message-ID: <20070410021105.GB5169 at niof.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> On Mon, Apr 09, 2007 at 05:24:13PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> > Rick Pasotto wrote:
> > 
> > >Today I received a message that had been rejected by the content
> > >filtering system and I'm not sure why. The sections of the message were:
> > >
> > > I  1 <no description>                 [text/plain, 7bit, us-ascii, 0.2K]
> > > I  2 Toastmaster Meeting for Tmrw            [message/rfc822, 7bit, 26K]
> > > I  3   ><no description>                    [multipa/related, 7bit, 24K]
> > > I  4     ><no description>              [multipa/alternativ, 7bit, 3.7K]
> > > I  5       ><no description>        [text/plain, quoted, us-ascii, 0.5K]
> > > I  6       ><no description>         [text/html, quoted, us-ascii, 2.9K]
> > > I  7     >NewCiscoLogo.jpg                     [image/jpeg, base64, 20K]
> > >
> > >In the pass_mime_types I have:
> > >
> > >multipart/mixed
> > >multipart/alternative
> > >text/plain
> > >
> > >Was the message rejected because the text/plain was quoted?
> > 
> > No.
> > 
> > You have two problems.
> > 
> > What is the overall message type in the main message headers? I suspect
> > it was not multipart/mixed or multipart/alternative; possibly
> > multipart/related or some such which would cause all of its sub-parts
> > to be skipped because multipart/whatever is not accepted.
> 
> I can see that I was insufficiently clear. What I posted above is the
> sections of the reject message that Mailman sent me. The
> 'message/rfc822' appears to be Mailman's encapsulation of the original
> message. From your explanation I see that the problem was that the
> original message was 'multipart/related'.
> 
> > Further, even if the main message is multipart/mixed, you don't accept
> > the message/rfc822 part so the only thing left would be the initial
> > 0.2K text/plain part.
> > 
> > You need to accept every multipart/ type that could possibly contain a
> > sub-part of interest. A better choice for pass_mime_types is
> > 
> > multipart
> > message/rfc822
> > text/plain
> > 
> > In your example above, this would pass all the multipart types
> > regardless of sub-type as well as the message/rfc822 part. This
> > doesn't mean the entire message will be passed. It just means that the
> > various sub-parts of those parts will be examined and the text/plain
> > parts accepted.
> > 
> > Even though the above seems very liberal, it ultimately only accepts
> > text/plain and elemental message/rfc822 parts, in this case only the
> > two text/plain parts.
> 
> Excellent. This is what I want. Thanks.
> 
> -- 
> "Only one thing can conquer war - that attitude of mind which can see
>  nothing in war but destruction and annihilation" -- Ludwig von Mises
>     Rick Pasotto    rick at niof.net    http://www.niof.net
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> 
> End of Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 38, Issue 18
> *********************************************

-- 
  Ray
  westerpark at fastmail.fm


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 10 19:13:17 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:13:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts
In-Reply-To: <p06240501c24097ffaf15@[192.168.132.163]>
Message-ID: <PC17602007041010131706096f0c4fd2@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>Most likely the desired virtual host name is a CNAME alias for the 
>real canonical name.  The RFCs require that all CNAME aliases be 
>resolved into their true canonical names, before delivering the 
>message.  The solution is to remove the CNAME records and have the 
>desired virtual host name resolve directly to an IP address record 
>(either an IPv4 "A" record, or an IPv6 "AAAA" record).


Thanks Brad. Now that you mention it, I recall seeing this on the list
several times before.


>I believe that all this is documented in the FAQ.


It isn't AFAICT. I was going to add it, but I am looking for a specific
RFC reference. I have looked at several RFCs and I don't see anything
that talks about rewriting domains in headers. All I found was RFC
1123 (STD 3), sec 5.2.2 which requires that canonical names, not
aliases, be used in MAIL and RCPT commands. Can you tell me where to
look?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Shadow at shadowsnetwork.com  Tue Apr 10 21:53:04 2007
From: Shadow at shadowsnetwork.com (Shadow)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:53:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Build Archives after moving to new server
Message-ID: <83D7454B0DEBE94E8CCAC763F83BE8E60B57A5@sbs-server.portal.shadowsnetwork.com>

Hi everyone - I have only been working with MailMan a couple of months
and now have run into a real test. I checked your archives and found
nothing that helps -  We moved to a new server a couple of months ago -
now my administrator want me to restore the old archives for the mailing
lists (I inherited this job).  Before the move, I had our old ISP tar
the old server root so I think that I have the old MailMan files but now
don't have a clue to how can I build the archive from these files (I
don't have access to the server root but can send the necessary info
and/or files to the customer support for our ISP).  Can someone point me
in the right direction as to what must be done?
 
Also, I have been going crazy trying to figure out how to make our
current archives display as a thread rather than the FTP style folders -
two of our lists display as threads but the remander show as FTP folders
------ can someone point me in the right direction for that?
 
Shadow

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Apr 10 22:01:22 2007
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:01:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Build Archives after moving to new server
In-Reply-To: <83D7454B0DEBE94E8CCAC763F83BE8E60B57A5@sbs-server.portal.shadowsnetwork.com>
References: <83D7454B0DEBE94E8CCAC763F83BE8E60B57A5@sbs-server.portal.shadowsnetwork.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00704101301o6942a32ai4ea84f02496fff49@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/10/07, Shadow <Shadow at shadowsnetwork.com> wrote:
> lists (I inherited this job).  Before the move, I had our old ISP tar
> the old server root so I think that I have the old MailMan files but now
> don't have a clue to how can I build the archive from these files (I
> don't have access to the server root but can send the necessary info
> and/or files to the customer support for our ISP).  Can someone point me
> in the right direction as to what must be done?

FAQ 3.3 <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp>
includes instructions on how to locate the archives for a list.

FAQ 5.1 <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq05.001.htp>
tells you how to add an old archive to a new list.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Tue Apr 10 22:21:47 2007
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:21:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Are edits to data/aliases preserved
Message-ID: <E29EA266-DC16-45BE-8D4A-D82C8F375E1B@goldmark.org>

I'm using mailman with postfix.  Mailman creates and modifies the file

    mailman/data/aliases

which is (indirectly) used by postfix for the aliases that mailman uses.

I would like to edit some of the content of that file by hand, in  
particularly I want bounces to both be processed by mailman and sent  
to the list owner.  So I'd like to change the line

spirit-bounces:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces spirit"

to

spirit-bounces:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces  
spirit", spirit-owner

Will such an edit survive any future mailman additions to data/ 
aliases?  Also, is there some other/better way of achieving what I  
want to achieve (seeing all bounces and having mailman process them

Cheers,

-j

-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 10 22:45:34 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 13:45:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Are edits to data/aliases preserved
In-Reply-To: <E29EA266-DC16-45BE-8D4A-D82C8F375E1B@goldmark.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602007041013453409530de2a8db@msapiro>

Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:
>
>I'm using mailman with postfix.  Mailman creates and modifies the file
>
>    mailman/data/aliases
>
>which is (indirectly) used by postfix for the aliases that mailman uses.
>
>I would like to edit some of the content of that file by hand, in  
>particularly I want bounces to both be processed by mailman and sent  
>to the list owner.  So I'd like to change the line
>
>spirit-bounces:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces spirit"
>
>to
>
>spirit-bounces:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces  
>spirit", spirit-owner
>
>Will such an edit survive any future mailman additions to data/ 
>aliases?  Also, is there some other/better way of achieving what I  
>want to achieve (seeing all bounces and having mailman process them


Making the listname-bounces alias go to both 'bounces' and 'owner' is
probably the most convenient way for the owner to see every bounce.
With list settings, you can see unrecognized bounces and those bounces
that cause a disable, but the normal bounces that are recognized as
such but do not cause a disable (i.e. are not the bounce that puts the
score over the threshold) will not be seen unless you either modify
the code or do something with the alias as you suggest.

As far as the edit surviving changes is concerned, it will as long as
you don't run Mailman's bin/genaliases. Normal addition or deletion of
lists only adds or removes stanzas to/from the data/aliases file, but
bin/genaliases rebuilds it from scratch.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Shadow at shadowsnetwork.com  Tue Apr 10 22:52:53 2007
From: Shadow at shadowsnetwork.com (Shadow)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 13:52:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Build Archives after moving to new server
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00704101301o6942a32ai4ea84f02496fff49@mail.gmail.com>
References: <83D7454B0DEBE94E8CCAC763F83BE8E60B57A5@sbs-server.portal.shadowsnetwork.com>
	<6fbe3da00704101301o6942a32ai4ea84f02496fff49@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <83D7454B0DEBE94E8CCAC763F83BE8E60B57A7@sbs-server.portal.shadowsnetwork.com>

Thanks for the links

shadow

From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Wed Apr 11 00:04:27 2007
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:04:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Are edits to data/aliases preserved
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007041013453409530de2a8db@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007041013453409530de2a8db@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C7683A21-23D4-4CC1-800A-D8EF7D902D9E@goldmark.org>

On Apr 10, 2007, at 3:45 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Making the listname-bounces alias go to both 'bounces' and 'owner' is
> probably the most convenient way for the owner to see every bounce.

OK.  That is what I will do then.

> With list settings, you can see unrecognized bounces and those bounces
> that cause a disable, but the normal bounces that are recognized as
> such but do not cause a disable

Yes.  I did see that.

> (i.e. are not the bounce that puts the
> score over the threshold) will not be seen unless you either modify
> the code or do something with the alias as you suggest.

I'm interested in doing this for a very low frequency announce-only  
list with less than 300 members.  So while I'm happy to have mailman  
do its bounce processing, there really is no configuration for it  
that will do the job needed.  A human (me) will need to look at each  
bounce.

I now see that I can get the bounce information from bin/dumpdb lists/ 
listname/config.pck, so I can look through my mail logs and see if  
that gives me a clue for the reason for the bounce.

> As far as the edit surviving changes is concerned, it will as long as
> you don't run Mailman's bin/genaliases. Normal addition or deletion of
> lists only adds or removes stanzas to/from the data/aliases file, but
> bin/genaliases rebuilds it from scratch.

Thanks.  I might move or disable genaliases since I'm bound to forget  
this tidbit years from now.

Cheers,

-j

-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From justin at seafelt.com  Wed Apr 11 01:44:27 2007
From: justin at seafelt.com (Justin Warren)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:44:27 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Fwd: TypeError: us-ascii with python2.4 and
	mailman 2.1.8-1	(debian)]
Message-ID: <1176248667.7789.8.camel@localhost>

Hi folks,

I hit the same sort of problem as a couple of other people apparently
have, eg:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-November/054246.html

I hit this when Mailman attempts to send digests.

I thought I'd tracked the issue to the way Charset is used within
Mailman/Scrubber.py, on line 193 (some modifications by me to print
debug output):

    charset = None                                                                                                     
    lcset = Utils.GetCharSet(mlist.preferred_language)                                                                 
    print "getting charset for preferred language:", repr(lcset)                                                       
    lcset_out = Charset(lcset).output_charset or lcset                                                                 
    print "lcset_out is:", repr(lcset_out) 

Which yields:

getting charset for preferred language: 'us-ascii'
lcset_out is: u'us-ascii'

It appears that Charset returns a unicode string for
its .output_charset, which python2.4 email.Message.set_charset() does
not recognise as a string, and it isn't a Charset either, so a TypeError
is raised.

I don't know enough about why .output_charset is being used, or why it
is unicode, but it seems that changing line 193 to read:

    lcset_out = Charset(lcset) or lcset

would prevent this error.

However, something else is also returning a unicode string, since after
changing Scrubber, you end up with this error:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 94, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 86, in main
    mlist.send_digest_now()
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 60, in send_digest_now
    ToDigest.send_digests(self, mboxfp)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 142, in send_digests
    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 339, in send_i18n_digests
    mcset = msg.get_content_charset('')
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/email/Message.py", line 805, in get_content_charset
    charset = unicode(charset, 'us-ascii').encode('us-ascii')
TypeError: decoding Unicode is not supported

I haven't worked out what this other thing is as yet.

Alternately, patching email/Message.py (line 803) to ignore a charset
that is a unicode string seems to work, but is probably fragile or
broken in other ways:

        # charset character must be in us-ascii range                                                                  
        try:                                                                                                           
            if not isinstance(charset, unicode):                                                                       
                charset = unicode(charset, 'us-ascii').encode('us-ascii')                                              
        except UnicodeError:                                                                                           
            return failobj 

I hope this helps someone more knowledgable about Mailman to work out
what the underlying problem is.

-- 
Justin Warren <justin at seafelt.com>
seafelt.com: Making sense of a sea of data.

From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Wed Apr 11 02:13:11 2007
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:13:11 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Fwd: TypeError: us-ascii with python2.4 and
 mailman 2.1.8-1	(debian)]
In-Reply-To: <1176248667.7789.8.camel@localhost>
References: <1176248667.7789.8.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <461C2817.2030203@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi developers,

This particular problem is caused by a bug in email 4.0.1 package which 
was fixed in the most recent subversion repository.
http://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Lib/email/message.py?rev=54333&r1=50840&r2=54333

Maybe it's time to think of next bug fix release of mailman 2.1.10 as 
soon as the email 4.0.2(?) is out.



Justin Warren wrote:
> Hi folks,
> 
> I hit the same sort of problem as a couple of other people apparently
> have, eg:
> 
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-November/054246.html
> 
> I hit this when Mailman attempts to send digests.
> 
> I thought I'd tracked the issue to the way Charset is used within
> Mailman/Scrubber.py, on line 193 (some modifications by me to print
> debug output):
> 
>     charset = None                                                                                                     
>     lcset = Utils.GetCharSet(mlist.preferred_language)                                                                 
>     print "getting charset for preferred language:", repr(lcset)                                                       
>     lcset_out = Charset(lcset).output_charset or lcset                                                                 
>     print "lcset_out is:", repr(lcset_out) 
> 
> Which yields:
> 
> getting charset for preferred language: 'us-ascii'
> lcset_out is: u'us-ascii'
> 
> It appears that Charset returns a unicode string for
> its .output_charset, which python2.4 email.Message.set_charset() does
> not recognise as a string, and it isn't a Charset either, so a TypeError
> is raised.
> 
> I don't know enough about why .output_charset is being used, or why it
> is unicode, but it seems that changing line 193 to read:
> 
>     lcset_out = Charset(lcset) or lcset
> 
> would prevent this error.
> 
> However, something else is also returning a unicode string, since after
> changing Scrubber, you end up with this error:
> 
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 94, in ?
>     main()
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 86, in main
>     mlist.send_digest_now()
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 60, in send_digest_now
>     ToDigest.send_digests(self, mboxfp)
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 142, in send_digests
>     send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 339, in send_i18n_digests
>     mcset = msg.get_content_charset('')
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/email/Message.py", line 805, in get_content_charset
>     charset = unicode(charset, 'us-ascii').encode('us-ascii')
> TypeError: decoding Unicode is not supported
> 
> I haven't worked out what this other thing is as yet.
> 
> Alternately, patching email/Message.py (line 803) to ignore a charset
> that is a unicode string seems to work, but is probably fragile or
> broken in other ways:
> 
>         # charset character must be in us-ascii range                                                                  
>         try:                                                                                                           
>             if not isinstance(charset, unicode):                                                                       
>                 charset = unicode(charset, 'us-ascii').encode('us-ascii')                                              
>         except UnicodeError:                                                                                           
>             return failobj 
> 
> I hope this helps someone more knowledgable about Mailman to work out
> what the underlying problem is.
> 


-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 11 02:20:38 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:20:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Fwd: TypeError: us-ascii with python2.4
	andmailman 2.1.8-1	(debian)]
In-Reply-To: <1176248667.7789.8.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <PC17602007041017203800150356bf35@msapiro>

Justin Warren wrote:
>
>I hit the same sort of problem as a couple of other people apparently
>have, eg:
>
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-November/054246.html
>
>I hit this when Mailman attempts to send digests.
>
>I thought I'd tracked the issue to the way Charset is used within
>Mailman/Scrubber.py, on line 193 (some modifications by me to print
>debug output):
>
>    charset = None                                                                                                     
>    lcset = Utils.GetCharSet(mlist.preferred_language)                                                                 
>    print "getting charset for preferred language:", repr(lcset)                                                       
>    lcset_out = Charset(lcset).output_charset or lcset                                                                 
>    print "lcset_out is:", repr(lcset_out) 
>
>Which yields:
>
>getting charset for preferred language: 'us-ascii'
>lcset_out is: u'us-ascii'
>
>It appears that Charset returns a unicode string for
>its .output_charset, which python2.4 email.Message.set_charset() does
>not recognise as a string, and it isn't a Charset either, so a TypeError
>is raised.


The real underlying question is are you using the email 2.5.7 package
that is distributed with Mailman 2.1.8 and normally installed in
Mailman's pythonlib, or is your Debian Mailman package broken in some
way?

Do you have a pythonlib directory in your Mailman installation? Does it
have an email subdirectory? What is the version in
pythonlib/email/__init__.py?

Does Mailman's bin/paths.py contain

  sys.path.insert(0, os.path.join(prefix, 'pythonlib'))


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 11 02:29:39 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:29:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] [Fwd: TypeError:
	us-asciiwith python2.4 and mailman 2.1.8-1	(debian)]
In-Reply-To: <461C2817.2030203@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC17602007041017293907507dd803f5@msapiro>

Tokio Kikuchi wrote:

>Hi developers,
>
>This particular problem is caused by a bug in email 4.0.1 package which 
>was fixed in the most recent subversion repository.
>http://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Lib/email/message.py?rev=54333&r1=50840&r2=54333
>
>Maybe it's time to think of next bug fix release of mailman 2.1.10 as 
>soon as the email 4.0.2(?) is out.


But Mailman 2.1.x ships with and should be installed with the email
2.5.x branch, so unless this bug was also introduced and subsequently
fixed in that branch as well, it shouldn't affect a properly installed
Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Wed Apr 11 02:51:07 2007
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:51:07 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] [Fwd:
 TypeError:	us-asciiwith python2.4 and mailman 2.1.8-1	(debian)]
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007041017293907507dd803f5@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007041017293907507dd803f5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <461C30FB.8050703@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
> 
>> Hi developers,
>>
>> This particular problem is caused by a bug in email 4.0.1 package which 
>> was fixed in the most recent subversion repository.
>> http://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Lib/email/message.py?rev=54333&r1=50840&r2=54333
>>
>> Maybe it's time to think of next bug fix release of mailman 2.1.10 as 
>> soon as the email 4.0.2(?) is out.
> 
> 
> But Mailman 2.1.x ships with and should be installed with the email
> 2.5.x branch, so unless this bug was also introduced and subsequently
> fixed in that branch as well, it shouldn't affect a properly installed
> Mailman.
> 

Oh yes, you're right, Mark.  I was too much involved in mailman 2.2 
which will be shipped with email 4.0.x.  Perhaps, we should make warning 
against package distributers that 'misc' directory (pythonlib) in the 
mailman source tree can't be omitted.

BTW, I'm looking forward to see email 4.0.2 out. ;-)


-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/

From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Apr 11 03:51:02 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:51:02 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007041010131706096f0c4fd2@msapiro>
References: <p06240501c24097ffaf15@[192.168.132.163]>
	<PC17602007041010131706096f0c4fd2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <87odlvwuex.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > It isn't AFAICT. I was going to add it, but I am looking for a specific
 > RFC reference. I have looked at several RFCs and I don't see anything
 > that talks about rewriting domains in headers. All I found was RFC
 > 1123 (STD 3), sec 5.2.2

As Lucy van Pelt ("The Doctor is 'In'") used to say to Charlie Brown,

                           THAT'S IT!!!!!!

<wink>

If you look at RFC 2821, you will discover that in section 2.3.5, it
specifically allows CNAME aliases in the "domain name" part of a
mailbox.  I conclude that only the EHLO (HELO) command (and possibly
the server's greeting messages) has the restriction.  The rationale is
that it is an error-reporting mechanism, which needs to be more
carefully specified since the system is known to be in a problem
state.  See section 4.1.1, which specifies that the host specified by
a domain in EHLO should have a reverse mapping.  Since a CNAME can't
have a corresponding PTR, the restriction in STD 3 follows.

"MX names" are also allowed, for what it is worth.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Apr 11 03:59:34 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 20:59:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007041010131706096f0c4fd2@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007041010131706096f0c4fd2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240501c241f01d73a6@[192.168.132.163]>

At 10:13 AM -0700 4/10/07, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>>I believe that all this is documented in the FAQ.
>
>  It isn't AFAICT.

I thought it was, but I'll take your word for it.

>                   I was going to add it, but I am looking for a specific
>  RFC reference. I have looked at several RFCs and I don't see anything
>  that talks about rewriting domains in headers. All I found was RFC
>  1123 (STD 3), sec 5.2.2 which requires that canonical names, not
>  aliases, be used in MAIL and RCPT commands. Can you tell me where to
>  look?

RFC 1123 has been superceded.  For these things, look at RFC 2821, 
section 2.3.5:

2.3.5 Domain

    A domain (or domain name) consists of one or more dot-separated
    components.  These components ("labels" in DNS terminology [22]) are
    restricted for SMTP purposes to consist of a sequence of letters,
    digits, and hyphens drawn from the ASCII character set [1].  Domain
    names are used as names of hosts and of other entities in the domain
    name hierarchy.  For example, a domain may refer to an alias (label
    of a CNAME RR) or the label of Mail eXchanger records to be used to
    deliver mail instead of representing a host name.  See [22] and
    section 5 of this specification.

    The domain name, as described in this document and in [22], is the
    entire, fully-qualified name (often referred to as an "FQDN").  A
    domain name that is not in FQDN form is no more than a local alias.
    Local aliases MUST NOT appear in any SMTP transaction.

See also section 3.6:

3.6 Domains

    Only resolvable, fully-qualified, domain names (FQDNs) are permitted
    when domain names are used in SMTP.  In other words, names that can
    be resolved to MX RRs or A RRs (as discussed in section 5) are
    permitted, as are CNAME RRs whose targets can be resolved, in turn,
    to MX or A RRs.  Local nicknames or unqualified names MUST NOT be
    used.  There are two exceptions to the rule requiring FQDNs:

    -  The domain name given in the EHLO command MUST BE either a primary
       host name (a domain name that resolves to an A RR) or, if the host
       has no name, an address literal as described in section 4.1.1.1.

    -  The reserved mailbox name "postmaster" may be used in a RCPT
       command without domain qualification (see section 4.1.1.3) and
       MUST be accepted if so used.



I'm still looking for a specific reference from RFC 2822 that would 
be applicable to the case of the "From:" header.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Apr 11 04:27:30 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 21:27:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts
In-Reply-To: <87odlvwuex.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <p06240501c24097ffaf15@[192.168.132.163]>
	<PC17602007041010131706096f0c4fd2@msapiro>
	<87odlvwuex.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06240504c241f678f0c3@[192.168.132.163]>

At 10:51 AM +0900 4/11/07, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>  If you look at RFC 2821, you will discover that in section 2.3.5, it
>  specifically allows CNAME aliases in the "domain name" part of a
>  mailbox.

RFC 2821 covers only the SMTP transport protocol, not the message 
format.  That would be RFC 2822.  And I found a reference in section 
3.4.1 of RFC 2822 which implies that CNAME aliases are *not* allowed 
in mailbox names.  I'll quote the whole section here, and then go 
back and highlight the reference:

| 3.4.1. Addr-spec specification
|
|   An addr-spec is a specific Internet identifier that contains a
|   locally interpreted string followed by the at-sign character ("@",
|   ASCII value 64) followed by an Internet domain.  The locally
|   interpreted string is either a quoted-string or a dot-atom.  If the
|   string can be represented as a dot-atom (that is, it contains no
|   characters other than atext characters or "." surrounded by atext
|   characters), then the dot-atom form SHOULD be used and the
|   quoted-string form SHOULD NOT be used. Comments and folding white
|   space SHOULD NOT be used around the "@" in the addr-spec.
|
| addr-spec       =       local-part "@" domain
|
| local-part      =       dot-atom / quoted-string / obs-local-part
|
| domain          =       dot-atom / domain-literal / obs-domain
|
| domain-literal  =       [CFWS] "[" *([FWS] dcontent) [FWS] "]" [CFWS]
|
| dcontent        =       dtext / quoted-pair
|
| dtext           =       NO-WS-CTL /     ; Non white space controls
|                         %d33-90 /       ; The rest of the US-ASCII
|                         %d94-126        ;  characters not including "[",
|                                         ;  "]", or "\"
|
|   The domain portion identifies the point to which the mail is
|   delivered. In the dot-atom form, this is interpreted as an Internet
|   domain name (either a host name or a mail exchanger name) as
|   described in [STD3, STD13, STD14].  In the domain-literal form, the
|   domain is interpreted as the literal Internet address of the
|   particular host.  In both cases, how addressing is used and how
|   messages are transported to a particular host is covered in the mail
|   transport document [RFC2821].  These mechanisms are outside of the
|   scope of this document.
|
|   The local-part portion is a domain dependent string.  In addresses,
|   it is simply interpreted on the particular host as a name of a
|   particular mailbox.

The important sentence here is:

|              In the dot-atom form, this is interpreted as an Internet
|   domain name (either a host name or a mail exchanger name) as
|   described in [STD3, STD13, STD14].

In particular, note that it says "host name" or "mail exchanger 
name", and specifically omits "CNAME alias", and refers you to STD3 
(RFCs 1122 and 1123) and STD13 (RFC 1034) for definitions of these 
terms.

>            I conclude that only the EHLO (HELO) command (and possibly
>  the server's greeting messages) has the restriction.

It does have this restriction, but it is not the only part that does.

>                                                        The rationale is
>  that it is an error-reporting mechanism, which needs to be more
>  carefully specified since the system is known to be in a problem
>  state.  See section 4.1.1, which specifies that the host specified by
>  a domain in EHLO should have a reverse mapping.  Since a CNAME can't
>  have a corresponding PTR, the restriction in STD 3 follows.
>
>  "MX names" are also allowed, for what it is worth.

See above.  I believe that the CNAME re-writing behaviour, as 
originally described, is required by the RFCs.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From justin at seafelt.com  Wed Apr 11 05:14:30 2007
From: justin at seafelt.com (Justin Warren)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 13:14:30 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] [Fwd: TypeError:
	us-ascii	with python2.4 and mailman 2.1.8-1 (debian)]
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007041017293907507dd803f5@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007041017293907507dd803f5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1176261271.7789.38.camel@localhost>

On Tue, 2007-04-10 at 17:29 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
> 
> >Hi developers,
> >
> >This particular problem is caused by a bug in email 4.0.1 package which 
> >was fixed in the most recent subversion repository.
> >http://svn.python.org/view/python/trunk/Lib/email/message.py?rev=54333&r1=50840&r2=54333
> >
> >Maybe it's time to think of next bug fix release of mailman 2.1.10 as 
> >soon as the email 4.0.2(?) is out.
> 
> 
> But Mailman 2.1.x ships with and should be installed with the email
> 2.5.x branch, so unless this bug was also introduced and subsequently
> fixed in that branch as well, it shouldn't affect a properly installed
> Mailman.

M'kay. I've fixed the shunting issue and upgraded to mailman 2.1.9-7
(debian) so hopefully things will be smooth from now on.

Thanks for all the rapid responses.

-- 
Justin Warren <justin at seafelt.com>
seafelt.com: Making sense of a sea of data.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Apr 11 05:55:13 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 22:55:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts
In-Reply-To: <p06240504c241f678f0c3@[192.168.132.163]>
References: <p06240501c24097ffaf15@[192.168.132.163]>
	<PC17602007041010131706096f0c4fd2@msapiro>
	<87odlvwuex.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06240504c241f678f0c3@[192.168.132.163]>
Message-ID: <p06240501c2420a2c8f0e@[192.168.132.163]>

At 9:27 PM -0500 4/10/07, Brad Knowles wrote:

>  The important sentence here is:
>
>  |              In the dot-atom form, this is interpreted as an Internet
>  |   domain name (either a host name or a mail exchanger name) as
>  |   described in [STD3, STD13, STD14].
>
>  In particular, note that it says "host name" or "mail exchanger name",
>  and specifically omits "CNAME alias", and refers you to STD3 (RFCs 1122
>  and 1123) and STD13 (RFC 1034) for definitions of these terms.

In contrast, here's a quote from the cf/README file for sendmail 8.13.8:

| confDONT_EXPAND_CNAMES  DontExpandCnames
|                                        [False] If set, $[ ... $] lookups that
|                                        do DNS based lookups do not expand
|                                        CNAME records.  This 
currently violates
|                                        the published standards, but the IETF
|                                        seems to be moving toward legalizing
|                                        this.  For example, if "FTP.Foo.ORG"
|                                        is a CNAME for "Cruft.Foo.ORG", then
|                                        with this option set a lookup of
|                                        "FTP" will return "FTP.Foo.ORG"; if
|                                        clear it returns 
"Cruft.FOO.ORG".  N.B.
|                                        you may not see any effect until your
|                                        downstream neighbors stop doing CNAME
|                                        lookups as well.

And the HISTORY file for postfix-2.4.1-RC1:

| 20021207
|
|        Performance: RFC 2821 blesses the use of CNAME domain names
|        in MAIL FROM and RCPT TO. Not having to expand CNAME domain
|        names speeds things up a bit.  File:  smtp/smtp_proto.c.

Now, I'm still not seeing the part that Wietse is referring to.  I'm 
still checking the document.


However, Eric's comment in the sendmail cf/README file makes it plain 
that this is a common behaviour that has been done for as long as 
Internet e-mail has existed, and therefore it's going to be a very, 
very long time before we can assume that most sites won't do this 
kind of thing -- even if the IETF does finally codify the practice.

So, we're still going to need a FAQ on this subject, regardless of 
whether the then-current RFCs require that CNAME aliases be resolved 
to their actual canonical names or not.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org  Wed Apr 11 09:23:31 2007
From: zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 09:23:31 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-bounces with wrong domain
Message-ID: <4275.192.168.11.11.1176276211.squirrel@lists.lc-words.com>

Hello,

I have a problem with just one list - the main list called mailman. It was
created with 192.168.11.51 IP as default for this list but since then I
ran fix_url to point it to my current domain and when I visit the general
options page for mailman, I can see the appropriate domain there.

But when I write to listname-owner at mydomain, I get an email from
mailman-bounces at 192.168.11.51

Where do I set this to the domain name? Many thanks in advance!


-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Apr 11 17:26:09 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 00:26:09 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts
In-Reply-To: <p06240504c241f678f0c3@[192.168.132.163]>
References: <p06240501c24097ffaf15@[192.168.132.163]>
	<PC17602007041010131706096f0c4fd2@msapiro>
	<87odlvwuex.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06240504c241f678f0c3@[192.168.132.163]>
Message-ID: <87k5wjvsoe.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brad Knowles writes:

 > |              In the dot-atom form, this is interpreted as an Internet
 > |   domain name (either a host name or a mail exchanger name) as
 > |   described in [STD3, STD13, STD14].
 > 
 > In particular, note that it says "host name" or "mail exchanger 
 > name", and specifically omits "CNAME alias", and refers you to STD3 
 > (RFCs 1122 and 1123) and STD13 (RFC 1034) for definitions of these 
 > terms.

"Host name" is not defined in STD 3 or STD 13, unfortunately, and IMO
usage throughout both clearly includes CNAMEs in most cases, in
particular in sections describing handling of CNAMEs.  RFC 2821
section 3.6 does define "primary host name" as one corresponding to an
A RR in the DNS, by omission allowing a host name to be a CNAME.

 > 
 > >            I conclude that only the EHLO (HELO) command (and possibly
 > >  the server's greeting messages) has the restriction.

This is an egregious error on my part; RFC 1123 (STD 3) is absolutely
clear on this point.  Section 5.2.2 states that in the MAIL FROM and
RCPT TO commands the address must be a *primary* host name (ie, not a
CNAME, but this includes domain literals) or an MX name.  Section
5.2.5 states that the HELO (or ELHO) command must contain a valid
principal host name (including a domain literal).  ("Principal host
name" is apparently intended to be a synonym for "primary host name.")

However, RFC 2821 section 3.6 is emphatic that the only exceptions to
the requirement that the domain part of an address be an FQDN which is
an A, MX, or CNAME are (a) the reserved mailbox "postmaster" and (b)
the address in EHLO.  Then, RFC 2821 section 5 clearly mandates that
CNAME processing MUST be done at connection time (emphasis in the
RFC).

I would conclude (conservatively) that implementations based on RFC
1123 are quite possibly common, and therefore host addresses in EHLO,
MAIL, and RCPT should be primary host names (and of course MX
addresses are allowed in MAIL and RCPT).  However, RFC 2821 allows
CNAMEs IMHO.

I think it's odd that RFC 2821 section 3.6 fails to mention that it
contradicts RFC 1123 section 5.2.2.  Nor does RFC 2821 claim to
supersede or update RFC 1123 or STD 3.  The fact that in both 3.6 and
throughout section 5 it implausibly restricts primary names to A RRs
(omitting IPv6 AAAA RRs) suggests to me that there was a long
political battle, and everybody was too tired to even kick the tires
to make sure there was air in them before publishing the RFC.  :-/

Late-breaking news:  somebody who I suspect knows what they're doing
agrees with me that RFC 2821 should say it updates RFC 1123:

http://mirror.switch.ch/ftp/mirror/internet-drafts/draft-klensin-rfc2821bis-01.txt

specifically, section 1.4 of that draft says it replaces the entire
mail section of RFC 1123.  Granted, it's just a draft ... it's time
for me to go to bed, so I'll use that as an excuse not to read it just
yet.<wink>

 > See above.  I believe that the CNAME re-writing behaviour, as 
 > originally described, is required by the RFCs.

Well, it is required by RFC 1123, but RFC 2821 clearly envisions a
world where CNAMEs are always resolved by the client at the time of
contacting the server, with the exception of the ELHO command, which
must already be a primary host name.

I believe that the restrictions on address fields in messages in RFC
2822 format are much weaker, ie, purely syntactic.  There's no reason
to suppose that the MUA will have an Internet connection or be
available to revise addresses if the MTA doesn't like them; on the
other hand, the MTA should not rewrite headers.



From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Wed Apr 11 18:34:16 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 11:34:16 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No hitches
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Paul Tomblin <ptomblin@xcski.com>'
	dated: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 15:39:48 -0400
Message-ID: <200704111634.l3BGYGGS029698@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> wrote:

>Debian just marked Debian 4.0 (etch) as stable, so I upgrade my Debian 
>3.1 (sarge) colo box to Debian 4.0.  Along the way, it upgraded Mailman 
>from 2.1.5 to 2.1.9.  Just wanted to let anybody else contemplating such 
>an upgrade that it went without a hitch.  The stage where it says 
>"Updating old qfiles" takes rather a long time, but it eventually 
>finishes.  Mail continues to flow, the web interface works, the archives 
>work.

>From my experience with Ubuntu/Debian distributions, just because it
is labelled 2.1.9 does not mean that the distribution was built from
the SourceForge 2.1.9 source tree.  As I could not guarantee that the
Ubuntu/Debian package was the real 2.1.9 source, I built a package
from the 2.1.9 source tree.

I tried a build on dapper using a 2.1.9 edgy-backport distribution.
This was supposedly a 2.1.9 source tree.  I saw these patch files:

     debian/patches/00_stolen_from_HEAD.patch
     debian/patches/01_defaults.debian.patch
     debian/patches/07_snooze.patch
     debian/patches/10_wrapper_uid.patch
     debian/patches/11_handle_propfind.patch
     debian/patches/15_mailmanctl_daemonize.patch
     debian/patches/16_update_debian.patch
     debian/patches/20_qmail_to_mailman.debian.patch
     debian/patches/21_newlist_help.patch
     debian/patches/30_pipermail_threads.patch
     debian/patches/32_MIME_fixup.patch
     debian/patches/51_nocompile.pyc.patch
     debian/patches/52_check_perms_lstat.patch
     debian/patches/53_disable_addons.patch
     debian/patches/56_fix_de_broken_links.patch
     debian/patches/58_fix_es_translation.patch
     debian/patches/59_fix_missing_language_crash.patch
     debian/patches/61_fix_ru_siteowner.patch
     debian/patches/62_new_list_bad_pending_requests.patch
     debian/patches/63_update_default_server_language.patch
     debian/patches/64_correct_html_nesting.patch
     debian/patches/65_handle_templates_directories.patch
     debian/patches/66_donot_let_cache_html_pages.patch
     debian/patches/67_update_handle_old_versions.patch
     debian/patches/70_invalid_utf8_dos.patch
     debian/patches/71_date_overflows.patch
     debian/patches/72_fblast_add_shebang.patch
     debian/patches/74_admin_non-ascii_emails.patch
     debian/patches/77_header_folding_in_attachments.patch
     debian/patches/78_DeprecationWarning.patch
     debian/patches/79_archiver_slash.patch
     debian/patches/80_fix_string_search.patch
     debian/patches/99_js_templates.patch

I stopped building the process when I discovered that the patch
process had changed from dapper to edgy, and I was not sure how
to handle the changes in dapper.  And for most of the patches, there
was no cross-reference to a Debian patch number, so I could not
tell the reason for the patch without close examination of the source
code.  I did not do this because I have learned from this mailman-users
list that complete help is not available here for non-standard source
modifications.

I did a build, using the Debian mailman_2.1.5-9ubuntu4.1 distribution
and using the SourceForge 2.1.9 source tree.  I saw these patches:

     debian/patches/00_stolen_from_HEAD.dpatch
     debian/patches/01_defaults.debian.dpatch
     debian/patches/02_CAN-2004-1177_driver_css.dpatch
     debian/patches/03_CAN-2004-1143.dpatch
     debian/patches/04_CAN-2005-0202.dpatch
     debian/patches/05_config_list_member_options.dpatch
     debian/patches/07_snooze.dpatch
     debian/patches/10_wrapper_uid.dpatch
     debian/patches/11_handle_propfind.dpatch
     debian/patches/12_savannah_wrapper.dpatch
     debian/patches/15_mailmanctl_daemonize.dpatch
     debian/patches/16_update_debian.dpatch
     debian/patches/20_qmail_to_mailman.debian.dpatch
     debian/patches/21_newlist_help.dpatch
     debian/patches/23_fix_urls.dpatch
     debian/patches/30_pipermail_threads.dpatch
     debian/patches/31_buggy_queuefiles.dpatch
     debian/patches/32_MIME_fixup.dpatch
     debian/patches/50_README.EXIM.paths.dpatch
     debian/patches/50_README.POSTFIX.dpatch
     debian/patches/51_nocompile.pyc.dpatch
     debian/patches/52_check_perms_lstat.dpatch
     debian/patches/53_disable_addons.dpatch
     debian/patches/56_fix_de_broken_links.dpatch
     debian/patches/57_fix_missing_da_template.dpatch
     debian/patches/58_fix_translations.dpatch
     debian/patches/59_fix_missing_language_crash.dpatch
     debian/patches/60_french_archtocentry.dpatch
     debian/patches/61_fix_ru_siteowner.dpatch
     debian/patches/62_new_list_bad_pending_requests.dpatch
     debian/patches/63_update_default_server_language.dpatch
     debian/patches/64_correct_html_nesting.dpatch
     debian/patches/65_donot_add_empty_cc.dpatch
     debian/patches/65_handle_templates_directories.dpatch
     debian/patches/66_donot_let_cache_html_pages.dpatch
     debian/patches/67_update_handle_old_versions.dpatch
     debian/patches/68_python24_bouncehandler_datetime.dpatch
     debian/patches/68_translation_update_nl.dpatch
     debian/patches/70_invalid_utf8_dos.dpatch
     debian/patches/71_invalid_date_dos.dpatch
     debian/patches/72_mime_None_payload.dpatch
     debian/patches/99_js_templates.dpatch
     debian/patches/XX_po-debconf_hack.dpatch
     debian/patches/handle-from-in-non-ascii.dpatch
     debian/patches/security-CVE-2006-2941.dpatch
     debian/patches/security-CVE-2006-3636-XSS.dpatch
     debian/patches/security-error_log.dpatch

Of the three three security patches added to the 2.1.5 source, two
matched the SourceForge patches and one did not match - the patch
was placed in a different source file.  Out of all of these patches,
the only one I kept was 

     01_defaults.debian

that changes Defaults.py.in in three places:

     -IMAGE_LOGOS = '/icons/'
     +IMAGE_LOGOS = '/doc/mailman/images/'

     -DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
     +DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/cgi-bin/mailman/'

     -PIDFILE = os.path.join(DATA_DIR, 'master-qrunner.pid')
     +PIDFILE = "/var/run/mailman/mailman.pid"

I kept this patch because I wanted the install to place the resulting
files in the directories where Debian/Ubuntu expected them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 11 19:08:36 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:08:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-bounces with wrong domain
In-Reply-To: <4275.192.168.11.11.1176276211.squirrel@lists.lc-words.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070411100836098467021c7c@msapiro>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>
>I have a problem with just one list - the main list called mailman. It was
>created with 192.168.11.51 IP as default for this list but since then I
>ran fix_url to point it to my current domain and when I visit the general
>options page for mailman, I can see the appropriate domain there.
>
>But when I write to listname-owner at mydomain, I get an email from
>mailman-bounces at 192.168.11.51
>
>Where do I set this to the domain name? Many thanks in advance!


What are your settings for DEFAULT_URL_HOST, and add_virtualhost() for
that host.

If the settings are correct, did you restart Mailman (mailmanctl
restart) since you made them correct?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org  Wed Apr 11 19:16:44 2007
From: zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 19:16:44 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-bounces with wrong domain
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070411100836098467021c7c@msapiro>
References: <4275.192.168.11.11.1176276211.squirrel@lists.lc-words.com>
	<PC176020070411100836098467021c7c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <61142.192.168.11.7.1176311804.squirrel@lists.lc-words.com>

Dear Mark,

>>But when I write to listname-owner at mydomain, I get an email from
>>mailman-bounces at 192.168.11.51
>>
> What are your settings for DEFAULT_URL_HOST, and add_virtualhost() for
> that host.

The only ones that I use are:

OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'DOMAIN.TLD'
SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes

>
> If the settings are correct, did you restart Mailman (mailmanctl
> restart) since you made them correct?

Yes, I did. That's the strange part. But still when I do:

find -f /usr/local/mailman |grep "192.168.11.51"

I get:
/usr/local/mailman/locks/master-qrunner.192.168.11.51.85053

Thank you again!

-- 



From dkall at pasco.k12.fl.us  Wed Apr 11 20:23:12 2007
From: dkall at pasco.k12.fl.us (Dave Kall)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:23:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription Help
Message-ID: <1BFA946F-2FC9-4046-8CD6-1CA6D3D1FA09@pasco.k12.fl.us>

I'm trying to write a script to add users through the url address:  
Seems that this should work.


The address I have is like:

http://my.domain.org/mailman/admin/scoop/members/add? 
subscribe_or_invite=0&send_welcome_msg_to_this_batch=0&send_notification 
s_to_list_owner=0&subscribees=&subscribees_upload=&invitation=&setmember 
opts_btn=Submit Your Changes

My school system will not allow mail to travel beyond our mail server  
inside the  firewall. So users can't email my list server from  
outside the firewall. Thus I need to automate  the collection of  
users and do an import and then modify their settings.

I want to automate the process; thus I'm down to adding users through  
the URL.

If someone has a way to automate the submit button that would work  
too; but I'm finding that all the more diffiucult.

I already tried to simply replace subscribees=&subscribees_upload  
with address' and that didn't seem to work.

I do thank you for any time any of you might invest in this riddle.

Sincerely,
Dave Kall
Technology Specialist
PCSB




From reikiiii at comcast.net  Wed Apr 11 22:13:01 2007
From: reikiiii at comcast.net (reikiiii at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 20:13:01 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocked from moderating the list
Message-ID: <041120072013.8926.461D414D000C7199000022DE22007507440707070705070A9D@comcast.net>

I was doing my daily chores of dealing with pending messages just fine. Suddenly, this is the message I get when I try to approve or dump emails to the list. (I've changed only what shows as the listname here.)  I'm hoping there is an easy fix to this. Thanks for helping a newbie like me. :)

Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /mailman/admindb/listname.com on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request. 

--
Blessings,
Toni

From ptomblin at xcski.com  Wed Apr 11 22:16:06 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 16:16:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocked from moderating the list
In-Reply-To: <041120072013.8926.461D414D000C7199000022DE22007507440707070705070A9D@comcast.net>
References: <041120072013.8926.461D414D000C7199000022DE22007507440707070705070A9D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20070411201606.GA10198@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting reikiiii at comcast.net (reikiiii at comcast.net):
> Forbidden
> You don't have permission to access /mailman/admindb/listname.com on this server.

Did you really put "listname.com" in the URL, or did your browser spaz out
and put it the ".com" in?

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
One could teach a child to Google but one _still_ should
make them think.
              -- Maarten Wiltink

From reikiiii at comcast.net  Wed Apr 11 22:21:56 2007
From: reikiiii at comcast.net (reikiiii at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 20:21:56 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocked from moderating the list
Message-ID: <041120072021.13116.461D4363000F28480000333C22007348300707070705070A9D@comcast.net>

I just put in 'listname'... it was originally the listname at thedomain.com in that slot.

--
Blessings,
Toni


 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com>
> Quoting reikiiii at comcast.net (reikiiii at comcast.net):
> > Forbidden
> > You don't have permission to access /mailman/admindb/listname.com on this 
> server.
> 
> Did you really put "listname.com" in the URL, or did your browser spaz out
> and put it the ".com" in?
> 
> -- 
> Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
> One could teach a child to Google but one _still_ should
> make them think.
>               -- Maarten Wiltink
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/reikiiii%40comcast.net
> 
> Security Policy: 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr 12 01:42:08 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 16:42:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-bounces with wrong domain
In-Reply-To: <61142.192.168.11.7.1176311804.squirrel@lists.lc-words.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704111642080421b5c996ed@Notebook>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>
>>>But when I write to listname-owner at mydomain, I get an email from
>>>mailman-bounces at 192.168.11.51
>>>
>> What are your settings for DEFAULT_URL_HOST, and add_virtualhost() for
>> that host.
>
>The only ones that I use are:
>
>OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'DOMAIN.TLD'
>SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
>VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes


What is in Defaults.py for DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST?

Add the following lines to mm_cfg.py following the assignment to
DEFAULT_URL_HOST.

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'correct FQDN'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

and then restart Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr 12 01:55:15 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 16:55:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription Help
In-Reply-To: <1BFA946F-2FC9-4046-8CD6-1CA6D3D1FA09@pasco.k12.fl.us>
Message-ID: <PC17602007041116551500627961e46d@Notebook>

Dave Kall wrote:
>
>The address I have is like:
>
>http://my.domain.org/mailman/admin/scoop/members/add? 
>subscribe_or_invite=0&send_welcome_msg_to_this_batch=0&send_notification 
>s_to_list_owner=0&subscribees=&subscribees_upload=&invitation=&setmember 
>opts_btn=Submit Your Changes


You have extra stuff you don't need, but the problem is that you're
missing the list admin password.

See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-December/041214.html>
and possibly other posts in that thread or returned by
<http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amail.python.org+inurl%3Amailman+wget>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr 12 02:04:55 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:04:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocked from moderating the list
In-Reply-To: <041120072021.13116.461D4363000F28480000333C22007348300707070705070A9D@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602007041117045501712615dc22@Notebook>

reikiiii at comcast.net wrote:

>I just put in 'listname'... it was originally the listname at thedomain.com in that slot.
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
>From: Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com>
>> Quoting reikiiii at comcast.net (reikiiii at comcast.net):
>> > Forbidden
>> > You don't have permission to access /mailman/admindb/listname.com on this 
>> server.
>> 
>> Did you really put "listname.com" in the URL, or did your browser spaz out
>> and put it the ".com" in?


This looks like cPanel, so see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.

That said, assuming you are accessing the admindb pages via the same
URL that used to work, something has changed in either the web server
or the underlying Mailman installation and you'll have to contact
whoever is responsible for those things.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr 12 02:49:05 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:49:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts
In-Reply-To: <p06240501c2420a2c8f0e@[192.168.132.163]>
Message-ID: <PC17602007041117490500785029dc93@Notebook>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>So, we're still going to need a FAQ on this subject, regardless of 
>whether the then-current RFCs require that CNAME aliases be resolved 
>to their actual canonical names or not.


I have added FAQ 6.22
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.022.htp>.
Look it over and comment/fix as appropriate.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Apr 12 03:59:36 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 10:59:36 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007041117490500785029dc93@Notebook>
References: <p06240501c2420a2c8f0e@[192.168.132.163]>
	<PC17602007041117490500785029dc93@Notebook>
Message-ID: <87bqhuwdx3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > I have added FAQ 6.22
 > <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.022.htp>.
 > Look it over and comment/fix as appropriate.

Basic format, especially the length, looks good to me.  Two
suggestions: my feeling is that the first line should mention the
*places* where replacement has been observed (envelope address, RFC
2822 addresses, whatever).

Second, while I'm not real keen on the idea that the Mailman faq
should contain a large email vocabulary list, do we have a single
"jargon faq" that gives pointers to RFCs that are frequently
referenced and also mail FAQs That Are Maintained By Somebody (for
values of Somebody != mailman developers)?  It would be cool if
generic mail jargon (eg, "envelope address") could be linked to that
FAQ.

Obviously the second comment is a generic, while I'm thinking of it,
kind of thing.  I'll try to get back to it myself, later, but I won't
cry if somebody beats me to it.<wink>

Also, I have fixed a typo (aditionally -> additionally).


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Apr 12 04:34:46 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 21:34:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts
In-Reply-To: <87k5wjvsoe.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <p06240501c24097ffaf15@[192.168.132.163]>
	<PC17602007041010131706096f0c4fd2@msapiro>
	<87odlvwuex.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06240504c241f678f0c3@[192.168.132.163]>
	<87k5wjvsoe.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06240500c2434a1ccf2a@[192.168.132.164]>

At 12:26 AM +0900 4/12/07, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>  I think it's odd that RFC 2821 section 3.6 fails to mention that it
>  contradicts RFC 1123 section 5.2.2.  Nor does RFC 2821 claim to
>  supersede or update RFC 1123 or STD 3.  The fact that in both 3.6 and
>  throughout section 5 it implausibly restricts primary names to A RRs
>  (omitting IPv6 AAAA RRs) suggests to me that there was a long
>  political battle, and everybody was too tired to even kick the tires
>  to make sure there was air in them before publishing the RFC.  :-/

I was on the DRUMS working group for a while, and I know that there's 
a lot of stuff that fell through because of certain interpersonal 
conflicts between some of the individuals involved.  It got to the 
point where my contributions were nothing but taking the opposite 
position of another person on the WG, regardless of what their 
positions were.  That was the point at which I decided it was no 
longer practical for me to remain on DRUMS, although since that 
particular individual had long-running arguments with several other 
people, I have to assume that the same sort of thing continued even 
after I left.

>  Late-breaking news:  somebody who I suspect knows what they're doing
>  agrees with me that RFC 2821 should say it updates RFC 1123:
>
> 
>http://mirror.switch.ch/ftp/mirror/internet-drafts/draft-klensin-rfc2821bis-01.txt

I'll have to take some time to read that properly.  Now is not that time.

>  Well, it is required by RFC 1123, but RFC 2821 clearly envisions a
>  world where CNAMEs are always resolved by the client at the time of
>  contacting the server, with the exception of the ELHO command, which
>  must already be a primary host name.

That does seem likely, but that is also a paradigm shift from the 
first twenty-something (or whatever) years of Internet e-mail, and 
there's going to be a very long time before most MTAs implement the 
new behaviour.

In the meanwhile, we have to continue to deal with the issue of the 
old behaviour.

>  I believe that the restrictions on address fields in messages in RFC
>  2822 format are much weaker, ie, purely syntactic.  There's no reason
>  to suppose that the MUA will have an Internet connection or be
>  available to revise addresses if the MTA doesn't like them; on the
>  other hand, the MTA should not rewrite headers.

The MTA needs to rewrite headers that the MTA needs to rewrite.  The 
question is which headers should the MTA be rewriting?

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Apr 12 04:40:49 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 21:40:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts
In-Reply-To: <87bqhuwdx3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <p06240501c2420a2c8f0e@[192.168.132.163]>
	<PC17602007041117490500785029dc93@Notebook>
	<87bqhuwdx3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06240501c2434bf53e03@[192.168.132.164]>

At 10:59 AM +0900 4/12/07, Stephen J. Turnbull quoted Mark Sapiro:

>   > I have added FAQ 6.22
>   > <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.022.htp>.
>   > Look it over and comment/fix as appropriate.
>
>  Basic format, especially the length, looks good to me.

Agreed.

>                                                          Two
>  suggestions: my feeling is that the first line should mention the
>  *places* where replacement has been observed (envelope address, RFC
>  2822 addresses, whatever).

It may be my anti-histamine-fogged brain, but I'm not quite sure I 
understand what you mean.  Could you clarify?

>  Second, while I'm not real keen on the idea that the Mailman faq
>  should contain a large email vocabulary list, do we have a single
>  "jargon faq" that gives pointers to RFCs that are frequently
>  referenced and also mail FAQs That Are Maintained By Somebody (for
>  values of Somebody != mailman developers)?

I'm not aware of anything we're keeping in this area with regard to 
Mailman.  We could link to some of the FAQs and RFCs on faqs.org, but 
there are so many different FAQs and RFCs that I fear we would 
seriously scare the bejeebies out of anyone who actually read such an 
entry.

>                                              It would be cool if
>  generic mail jargon (eg, "envelope address") could be linked to that
>  FAQ.

There is always the Jargon File.  ;)

>  Obviously the second comment is a generic, while I'm thinking of it,
>  kind of thing.  I'll try to get back to it myself, later, but I won't
>  cry if somebody beats me to it.<wink>

Please, feel free to take a whack at it.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From manyacool81 at list.ru  Thu Apr 12 07:11:53 2007
From: manyacool81 at list.ru (Elly cool)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:11:53 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header intact
Message-ID: <E1Hbrb7-00029O-00.manyacool81-list-ru@f24.mail.ru>



Elly

From zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org  Thu Apr 12 07:25:17 2007
From: zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 07:25:17 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-bounces with wrong domain
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200704111642080421b5c996ed@Notebook>
References: <61142.192.168.11.7.1176311804.squirrel@lists.lc-words.com>
	<PC1760200704111642080421b5c996ed@Notebook>
Message-ID: <3062.192.168.11.11.1176355517.squirrel@lists.lc-words.com>

Hello again,

>>The only ones that I use are:
>>
>>OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
>>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'DOMAIN.TLD'
>>SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
>>VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = Yes
>
>
> What is in Defaults.py for DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST?
>
> Add the following lines to mm_cfg.py following the assignment to
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST.

Well, shame to say it pointed to 11.51... Thank you Mark. I guess my
searching for 11.51 string was incorrect.

All is OK now. Thank you for your patience!

-- 
Zbigniew Szalbot


From chal.arun at gmail.com  Thu Apr 12 07:30:42 2007
From: chal.arun at gmail.com (simply arun)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 11:30:42 +0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PROBLEM
Message-ID: <4689d6590704112230u3c389697mef2b66c42f0c3467@mail.gmail.com>

Hello ALL
I have a new requirement for my company
As per the requirement I need to add multiple domains.........for example
list.web2ph.net and list.ispai.in in the same mail server

Requirement
When i will create a mailing list for ispai.in it should show me to
subscribe to the list send mail to test at list.ispai.in but as per my
configuration it shows send mail to test at list.web2ph.net to subscribe.
The requirement which i asked can it be possible.
If yes please help me
thanks in advance

-- 
            arunanchal behera(RHCE)
seek to understand than to be understood
         mob no:+919440147694

From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Apr 12 09:05:57 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 16:05:57 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c2434a1ccf2a@[192.168.132.164]>
References: <p06240501c24097ffaf15@[192.168.132.163]>
	<PC17602007041010131706096f0c4fd2@msapiro>
	<87odlvwuex.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06240504c241f678f0c3@[192.168.132.163]>
	<87k5wjvsoe.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06240500c2434a1ccf2a@[192.168.132.164]>
Message-ID: <87abxevzqi.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brad Knowles writes:

[[ Aside:
 > I was on the DRUMS working group for a while,

Thank you!
]]

 > The MTA needs to rewrite headers that the MTA needs to rewrite.  The 
 > question is which headers should the MTA be rewriting?

RFC 2821 section 3.8.4 (IIRC) mandates that gateways rewrite non-FQDN
addresses in RFC 2822 headers.  But in the cases in point, we already
have FQDNs most of the time or can trivially generate them (eg, for
locally generated mail append the host's domain name).  My take would
be that MTAs should *translate* FQDNs to primary hostnames for use in
SMTP commands, but that there should be no need to rewrite headers
that are supplied to it, as the remote MTA as an MTA shouldn't care
about the content (including the RFC 2822 headers) of the message.

To the extent that some policy mechanism (which of course is most
efficiently implemented by the MTA, eg a Sendmail milter) is analyzing
the headers, the local MTA is obviously in the best position to check
and if appropriate rewrite addresses in the headers to conform with
policy (at least to the extent that making thing look consistent with
the DNS are going to help).  But that's going to depend on what common
policies are, and what policies any given user will encounter.  AFAIK
there are as yet no BCPs, let alone standards, for that.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Apr 12 09:25:35 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 16:25:35 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts
In-Reply-To: <p06240501c2434bf53e03@[192.168.132.164]>
References: <p06240501c2420a2c8f0e@[192.168.132.163]>
	<PC17602007041117490500785029dc93@Notebook>
	<87bqhuwdx3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06240501c2434bf53e03@[192.168.132.164]>
Message-ID: <878xcyvyts.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brad Knowles writes:

 > >                                                          Two
 > >  suggestions: my feeling is that the first line should mention the
 > >  *places* where replacement has been observed (envelope address, RFC
 > >  2822 addresses, whatever).
 > 
 > It may be my anti-histamine-fogged brain, but I'm not quite sure I 
 > understand what you mean.  Could you clarify?

As I read the thread, I saw no examples of RFC 2822 headers being
munged, but I did see lots of discussion of SMTP commands like ELHO,
MAIL, and RCPT.  RFC 1123 requires that addresses in MAIL and RCPT
commands be canonicalized, but says nothing about the RFC 2822 headers
that I can see.  So I've been thinking in terms of envelope addresses,
which often are visible to users in various ways.  Are the message's
headers actually being rewritten?  If so, which ones?

And on which host?  Ie, is it that joe at example.com composes a message
"To: nine at virtual.dom", and the MTA at example.com is rewriting that
to "To: nine at hosting-service.dom"?  If so, it's purely a DNS issue and
neither Mailman nor Mailman's MTA can do anything about it.  Or is the
MTA at hosting-service.dom rewriting it before redistributing?  Or
what?


From khany at ukzn.ac.za  Thu Apr 12 09:23:08 2007
From: khany at ukzn.ac.za (Yasean Khan)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 09:23:08 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help: Digests not working after upgrade
Message-ID: <461DFA7B.78CA.00B0.1@ukzn.ac.za>

Hi 
 
I hope you can help. I work at a University in South Africa and cannot
find any information on how Mailman digests work so I can troubleshoot
why the digests are not working. We are running :
 
Using Mailman version: 2.1.9
on
 Suse 2.4.19
with Python 2.2
 
We just recently upgraded to this version of Mailman and it all used to
work.
 
This is what the cron says:
0 12 * * * /usr/local/bin/python -S /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests
 
dbnmail2:/usr/lib/mailman/cron # ls
.   bumpdigests  crontab     disabled   mailpasswds   paths.py  
qrunner
..  checkdbs     crontab.in  gate_news  nightly_gzip  paths.pyc 
senddigests
 
Senddigests when executed does nothing.. nothing gets written to the
log either.
 
My Logs:
lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     mailman        21 Mar 23 13:12 logs ->
/var/lib/mailman
/logs
Certain logfiles still have the date when they last worked which is the
28th March when we did the upgrade
 
drwxrwsr-x    2 root     mailman       384 Apr 11 11:38 .
drwxrwsr-x   10 root     mailman       296 Mar 28 15:04 ..
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman  43086358 Apr 11 14:32 bounce
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman     14331 Apr  4 08:06 config
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman    637800 Mar 23 12:00 digest
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman    439909 Apr 11 14:14 error
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman       370 Aug  2  2006 fromusenet
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman      4649 Mar 25 04:08 locks
-rw-rw-r--    1 wwwrun   mailman      2864 Apr 10 17:22 mischief
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman   6752139 Apr 11 14:16 post
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman   1888706 Apr 11 13:19 qrunner
-rw-rw-r--    1 root     mailman  35377508 Apr 11 14:31 smtp
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman  30603926 Mar 29 18:48 smtp-failure
-rw-rw-r--    1 wwwrun   mailman   1114291 Apr 11 14:14 subscribe
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman  11264856 Apr 11 14:31 vette
 
Regards,
Yasean

Please find our Email Disclaimer here: http://www.ukzn.ac.za/disclaimer/

From manyacool81 at list.ru  Thu Apr 12 06:35:09 2007
From: manyacool81 at list.ru (Elly cool)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 11:35:09 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header intact
Message-ID: <E1Hbr1Z-0002JK-00.manyacool81-list-ru@f69.mail.ru>



Elly

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr 12 15:28:03 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 06:28:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PROBLEM
In-Reply-To: <4689d6590704112230u3c389697mef2b66c42f0c3467@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007041206280300319aa03f02@Notebook>


simply arun wrote:

>I have a new requirement for my company
>As per the requirement I need to add multiple domains.........for example
>list.web2ph.net and list.ispai.in in the same mail server
>
>Requirement
>When i will create a mailing list for ispai.in it should show me to
>subscribe to the list send mail to test at list.ispai.in but as per my
>configuration it shows send mail to test at list.web2ph.net to subscribe.


Assuming for example the web domain for this host is www.ispai.in, add

add_virtualhost('www.ispai.in', 'list.ispai.in')

to mm_cfg.py. You can have as many add_virtualhost('web host', 'email
host') entries in mm_cfg.py, but they all need to have distinct host
names ('web host' and 'email host' can be the same, but 'web host'
must be different from that in other add_virtualhost including
DEFAULT_URL_HOST).

Run Mailman's bin/fix_url.py for instructions on how to actually run it
under bin/withlist to fix the existing test list.

That's all you need to do in Mailman unless you need
POSTFIX_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS. The rest is done in your MTA and web server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Thu Apr 12 16:29:28 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 09:29:28 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question About acceptable_aliases
Message-ID: <200704121429.l3CETSE8028435@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

I have a question about the format of  acceptable_aliases .

I want to know how to specify addresses in a template config file
that I then use to create new lists.  I have a test list, and in the
administrator web interface under

     o Privacy options...
          o [Recipient filters]

in the "Alias names (regexps) ..." box I entered

     aaa at example.com
     bbb at example.com

(two full addresses on two separate lines).  Note that I am using full
e-mail addresses and not regular expressions here.  When I used 

     config_list -o ttbsf.config test-transmit

to produce a config file, I saw in ttbsf.config:

     acceptable_aliases = """aaa at example.com
     bbb at example.com"""

The details page says, "This option takes a list of regular expressions,
one per line,...".  If I want to add e-mail addresses to an existing
template file, do I use the format I saw in the config file, with
three initial quotation marks, each address on a separate line, and
three closing quotation marks?  This format does not seem user-friendly,
but I assume that it is the product of the translation of regular
expressions to config file format.
Thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From dkall at pasco.k12.fl.us  Thu Apr 12 19:34:36 2007
From: dkall at pasco.k12.fl.us (Dave Kall)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:34:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription Help
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007041116551500627961e46d@Notebook>
References: <PC17602007041116551500627961e46d@Notebook>
Message-ID: <7ECEC2BF-A43C-477B-ACA9-11DC951C1B24@pasco.k12.fl.us>

I've already authenticated by the using the password in a separate  
url. Are you saying I need to putt it "all in one url it should  
work?  I'll look into doing that. Then where would I put the  
subscribers to add?

Thanks, this is driving me buggy.

Dave


On Apr 11, 2007, at 7:55 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Dave Kall wrote:
>>
>> The address I have is like:
>>
>> http://my.domain.org/mailman/admin/scoop/members/add?
>> subscribe_or_invite=0&send_welcome_msg_to_this_batch=0&send_notificat 
>> ion
>> s_to_list_owner=0&subscribees=&subscribees_upload=&invitation=&setmem 
>> ber
>> opts_btn=Submit Your Changes
>
>
> You have extra stuff you don't need, but the problem is that you're
> missing the list admin password.
>
> See
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-December/ 
> 041214.html>
> and possibly other posts in that thread or returned by
> <http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amail.python.org+inurl% 
> 3Amailman+wget>.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Apr 13 06:23:21 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 23:23:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts
In-Reply-To: <878xcyvyts.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <p06240501c2420a2c8f0e@[192.168.132.163]>
	<PC17602007041117490500785029dc93@Notebook>
	<87bqhuwdx3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06240501c2434bf53e03@[192.168.132.164]>
	<878xcyvyts.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06240500c244b5e8b03e@[192.168.132.144]>

At 4:25 PM +0900 4/12/07, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>  As I read the thread, I saw no examples of RFC 2822 headers being
>  munged, but I did see lots of discussion of SMTP commands like ELHO,
>  MAIL, and RCPT.  RFC 1123 requires that addresses in MAIL and RCPT
>  commands be canonicalized, but says nothing about the RFC 2822 headers
>  that I can see.  So I've been thinking in terms of envelope addresses,
>  which often are visible to users in various ways.

Fair enough.

>  And on which host?  Ie, is it that joe at example.com composes a message
>  "To: nine at virtual.dom", and the MTA at example.com is rewriting that
>  to "To: nine at hosting-service.dom"?  If so, it's purely a DNS issue and
>  neither Mailman nor Mailman's MTA can do anything about it.  Or is the
>  MTA at hosting-service.dom rewriting it before redistributing?  Or
>  what?

Well, the way that the standards were previously interpreted was that 
this sort of transformation should always be done, and on all hosts 
that would be touching the message.  So, even if you didn't do it, 
the machine downstream should.

It's going to take a very long time to turn that ship around.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 13 07:19:54 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 22:19:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question About acceptable_aliases
In-Reply-To: <200704121429.l3CETSE8028435@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC17602007041222195406253e4809e7@Notebook>

Barry Finkel wrote:

>I have a question about the format of  acceptable_aliases .
>
>I want to know how to specify addresses in a template config file
>that I then use to create new lists.  I have a test list, and in the
>administrator web interface under
>
>     o Privacy options...
>          o [Recipient filters]
>
>in the "Alias names (regexps) ..." box I entered
>
>     aaa at example.com
>     bbb at example.com
>
>(two full addresses on two separate lines).  Note that I am using full
>e-mail addresses and not regular expressions here.  When I used 
>
>     config_list -o ttbsf.config test-transmit
>
>to produce a config file, I saw in ttbsf.config:
>
>     acceptable_aliases = """aaa at example.com
>     bbb at example.com"""
>
>The details page says, "This option takes a list of regular expressions,
>one per line,...".


Correct. so you add addresses and/or regexps in the box, one per line,
and the data are posted to the CGI script which converts them to the
value of the list attribute acceptable_aliases which happens to be a
string which is the list of addresses separated by newlines.


>If I want to add e-mail addresses to an existing
>template file, do I use the format I saw in the config file, with
>three initial quotation marks, each address on a separate line, and
>three closing quotation marks?  This format does not seem user-friendly,
>but I assume that it is the product of the translation of regular
>expressions to config file format.


It is more the translation of the entry in a web page text box into the
actual value of the list attribute.

What is in the input to config_list must be syntactically valid Python
that assigns values to list attributes. In this case, the value is a
single string consisting of the addresses/regexps separated by
newlines.

There are two ways to do this in Python

- as a single-quoted string, all on one line, with newlines represented
as \n as in

acceptable_aliases = "aaa at example.com\nbbb at example.com"

- as a triple-quoted string with literal newlines as in

acceptable_aliases = """aaa at example.com
bbb at example.com"""

(note the actual quote character in either single or triple quoted
strings may be either ' or ".)

I don't know what you might think a "user friendly" format for this
might be, but it probably isn't syntactically correct Python that says
what it needs to.

Note also, that not all list attributes are represented in this way. As
another example, the owner attribute is an actual Python list of
addresses as in

owner = ['owner1 at example,com', 'owner2 at example.com']

so you have to look at an actual config_list output and emulate what
you see there for the form of each attribute you want to change.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 13 07:33:22 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 22:33:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription Help
In-Reply-To: <7ECEC2BF-A43C-477B-ACA9-11DC951C1B24@pasco.k12.fl.us>
Message-ID: <PC17602007041222332208753e480ac1@Notebook>

Dave Kall wrote:

>I've already authenticated by the using the password in a separate  
>url. Are you saying I need to putt it "all in one url it should  
>work?  I'll look into doing that. Then where would I put the  
>subscribers to add?


It depends what you are doing. If you already logged in and got the
login cookie and are returning the cookie in the headers of the GET of
the 'subscribe' URL, then you don't need to provide the password a
second time, but I suspect you aren't doing that.

As far as the addresses are concerned, I again refer you to
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-December/041214.html>
where you will see part of the URL is
subscribees=[user_email_address], e.g. subscribees=user at example.com or
maybe even subscribees=user1 at example.com%0D%0Auser2 at example.com.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 13 07:45:03 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 22:45:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help: Digests not working after upgrade
In-Reply-To: <461DFA7B.78CA.00B0.1@ukzn.ac.za>
Message-ID: <PC17602007041222450303283e48088b@Notebook>

Yasean Khan wrote:
> 
>Using Mailman version: 2.1.9
>on
> Suse 2.4.19
>with Python 2.2
> 
>We just recently upgraded to this version of Mailman and it all used to
>work.
> 
>This is what the cron says:
>0 12 * * * /usr/local/bin/python -S /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests
> 
>dbnmail2:/usr/lib/mailman/cron # ls
>.   bumpdigests  crontab     disabled   mailpasswds   paths.py  
>qrunner
>..  checkdbs     crontab.in  gate_news  nightly_gzip  paths.pyc 
>senddigests
> 
>Senddigests when executed does nothing.. nothing gets written to the
>log either.


Is there a lists/<listname>/digest.mbox file? Is the list's
digest_send_periodic attribute set to Yes?

 
>My Logs:
>lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     mailman        21 Mar 23 13:12 logs ->
>/var/lib/mailman
>/logs
>Certain logfiles still have the date when they last worked which is the
>28th March when we did the upgrade
> 
>drwxrwsr-x    2 root     mailman       384 Apr 11 11:38 .
>drwxrwsr-x   10 root     mailman       296 Mar 28 15:04 ..
>-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman  43086358 Apr 11 14:32 bounce
>-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman     14331 Apr  4 08:06 config
>-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman    637800 Mar 23 12:00 digest


I'm curious about this 'digest' log as it isn't one of Mailman's normal
log files.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Apr 13 09:57:27 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 16:57:27 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c244b5e8b03e@[192.168.132.144]>
References: <p06240501c2420a2c8f0e@[192.168.132.163]>
	<PC17602007041117490500785029dc93@Notebook>
	<87bqhuwdx3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06240501c2434bf53e03@[192.168.132.164]>
	<878xcyvyts.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06240500c244b5e8b03e@[192.168.132.144]>
Message-ID: <87zm5cvh94.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brad Knowles writes:
 > At 4:25 PM +0900 4/12/07, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

 > >  And on which host?  Ie, is it that joe at example.com composes a message
 > >  "To: nine at virtual.dom", and the MTA at example.com is rewriting that
 > >  to "To: nine at hosting-service.dom"?  If so, it's purely a DNS issue and
 > >  neither Mailman nor Mailman's MTA can do anything about it.  Or is the
 > >  MTA at hosting-service.dom rewriting it before redistributing?  Or
 > >  what?
 > 
 > Well, the way that the standards were previously interpreted was that 
 > this sort of transformation should always be done, and on all hosts 
 > that would be touching the message.  So, even if you didn't do it, 
 > the machine downstream should.

Right, my point is that readers of the Mailman FAQ are are there
because they're thinking "Mailman 'should' be able to do something
about this", but as I understand it (I haven't actually had to deal
with, so I haven't seen it "in the wild") you've saying the rewriting
could be happening *anywhere*, so there's not much that Mailman can
do.

So site admins need to make sure via the DNS, not Mailman, that what
goes out is what is going to come back.  Right?

From R.E.Sonneveld at sonnection.nl  Fri Apr 13 12:47:25 2007
From: R.E.Sonneveld at sonnection.nl (Rolf E. Sonneveld)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 12:47:25 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hostname appears in URLs,
 despite hostname is not set in DEFAULT_URL_HOST
Message-ID: <461F5FBD.2040600@sonnection.nl>

Hi,

running Mailman 2.1.9. I have tried to find the answer to this question 
in the FAQs but didn't succeed. Please bear with me if this has been 
asked before.

As per the configure parameters --with-mailhost and --with-urlhost I 
have in my Defaults.py the following definitions:

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.domain.com'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.domain.com'

Mailman is running on a host with name 'hostname.domain.com'

When I first tried to create a list, Mailman gave the following error 
message:

Error: Unknown virtual host: hostname.domain.com

Then I added the line:

add_virtualhost('hostname.domain.com','lists.domain.com')

to the end of mm_cfg.py. Now that solved my problem of the list 
creation. However, whenever a new list is created, the URL's in all list 
related messsages contain http://hostname.domain.com and NOT 
http://lists.domain.com

How can I use the lists.domain.com to show up in the URL in messages 
that go to subscribers, moderators etc.?

/rolf


From R.E.Sonneveld at sonnection.nl  Fri Apr 13 13:42:24 2007
From: R.E.Sonneveld at sonnection.nl (Rolf E. Sonneveld)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 13:42:24 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hostname appears in URLs,
 despite hostname is not set in DEFAULT_URL_HOST (solved)
In-Reply-To: <461F5FBD.2040600@sonnection.nl>
References: <461F5FBD.2040600@sonnection.nl>
Message-ID: <461F6CA0.8050600@sonnection.nl>

Rolf E. Sonneveld schreef:
> Hi,
>
> running Mailman 2.1.9. I have tried to find the answer to this question 
> in the FAQs but didn't succeed. Please bear with me if this has been 
> asked before.
>
> As per the configure parameters --with-mailhost and --with-urlhost I 
> have in my Defaults.py the following definitions:
>
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.domain.com'
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.domain.com'
>
> Mailman is running on a host with name 'hostname.domain.com'
>
> When I first tried to create a list, Mailman gave the following error 
> message:
>
> Error: Unknown virtual host: hostname.domain.com
>
> Then I added the line:
>
> add_virtualhost('hostname.domain.com','lists.domain.com')
>
> to the end of mm_cfg.py. Now that solved my problem of the list 
> creation. However, whenever a new list is created, the URL's in all list 
> related messsages contain http://hostname.domain.com and NOT 
> http://lists.domain.com
>
> How can I use the lists.domain.com to show up in the URL in messages 
> that go to subscribers, moderators etc.?
>   

I have solved my problem by adding lists.domain.com as a CNAME to 
host.domain.com in DNS. Then I was able to connect to 
http://lists.domain.com and new mailing lists were created with the 
proper settings. No need to use 'add_virtualhost'. Sorry to have 
bothered you; hopefully this mail helps someone in the future to solve 
his/her problems when he/she looks it up in the mail archives.

/rolf


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 13 15:37:08 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 06:37:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hostname appears in URLs,
	despite hostname is not set in DEFAULT_URL_HOST (solved)
In-Reply-To: <461F6CA0.8050600@sonnection.nl>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704130637080265fcc1b411@Notebook>

Rolf E. Sonneveld wrote:
>
>I have solved my problem by adding lists.domain.com as a CNAME to 
>host.domain.com in DNS. Then I was able to connect to 
>http://lists.domain.com and new mailing lists were created with the 
>proper settings. No need to use 'add_virtualhost'. Sorry to have 
>bothered you; hopefully this mail helps someone in the future to solve 
>his/her problems when he/she looks it up in the mail archives.


It is better not to use a CNAME. Rather use an A record with the same
address as the primary host. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.022.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From R.E.Sonneveld at sonnection.nl  Fri Apr 13 15:47:29 2007
From: R.E.Sonneveld at sonnection.nl (Rolf E. Sonneveld)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 15:47:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hostname appears in URLs,
 despite hostname is not set in DEFAULT_URL_HOST (solved)
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200704130637080265fcc1b411@Notebook>
References: <PC1760200704130637080265fcc1b411@Notebook>
Message-ID: <461F89F1.9050402@sonnection.nl>

Mark Sapiro schreef:
> Rolf E. Sonneveld wrote:
>   
>> I have solved my problem by adding lists.domain.com as a CNAME to 
>> host.domain.com in DNS. Then I was able to connect to 
>> http://lists.domain.com and new mailing lists were created with the 
>> proper settings. No need to use 'add_virtualhost'. Sorry to have 
>> bothered you; hopefully this mail helps someone in the future to solve 
>> his/her problems when he/she looks it up in the mail archives.
>>     
>
>
> It is better not to use a CNAME. Rather use an A record with the same
> address as the primary host. See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.022.htp>.
>   

Thanks for the information. I knew that an MX record may not point to a 
CNAME (RFC974, later RFC2821) but I didn't came across a mailer which 
does rewriting based upon a CNAME (unless explicitely configured to do 
so). FYI: I'm integrating Mailman with Sun Java System Messaging Server.

Anyway, I fully agree with you that at the end of the day, an CNAME 
record will probably cause more problems than an A record, so I'll 
change it. Thanks for your feedback.

/rolf


From gianrubio at gmail.com  Fri Apr 13 16:33:55 2007
From: gianrubio at gmail.com (Giancarlo Rubio)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 11:33:55 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with virtual domain
Message-ID: <d8e57f270704130733g7c45e0bcrf891142a450a1d0@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all

I'm try to configure mailman with postfix and have a mistake when send
mail to server. The web interface is run correctly.


My list (virtual domain)
openbsd at openbsd-br.org

My real domain
pontonetsistemas.com.br

When i send a mail to list i get this message (int the mta)

Apr 13 08:29:27 fileserver postfix/qmgr[53878]: E38C71CCD1:
from=<gianrubio at gmail.com>, size=1722, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Apr 13 08:29:27 fileserver postfix/virtual[68735]: E38C71CCD1:
to=<openbsd at pontonetsistemas.com.br>,
orig_to=<openbsd at openbsd-br.org>, relay=virtual, delay=0.49,
delays=0.47/0.01/0/0.01, dsn=5.1.1, status=bounced (unknown user:
"openbsd at pontonetsistemas.com.br")
- Mostrar texto das mensagens anteriores -

I find similar errors on this list, but no way to solve this

My configurations files

##### main.cf #############
owner_request_special = no
recipient_delimiter = +

queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix
command_directory = /usr/local/sbin
daemon_directory = /usr/local/libexec/postfix
mail_owner = postfix
default_privs = nobody
default_transport = smtp
alias_maps = hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases,hash:/usr/local/etc/postfix/aliases
alias_database = hash:/usr/local/etc/postfix/aliases
readme_directory = no
sample_directory = /usr/local/etc/postfix
sendmail_path = /usr/local/sbin/sendmail
setgid_group = maildrop
manpage_directory = /usr/local/man
newaliases_path = /usr/local/bin/newaliases
mailq_path = /usr/local/bin/mailq
smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP "Version no disponible"
disable_vrfy_command = yes

myhostname=pontonetsistemas.com.br
mydomain=pontonetsistemas.com.br
myorigin= $mydomain
mydestination= $mydomain, $transport_maps

virtual_alias_maps =
hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman,pgsql:/usr/local/etc/postfix/cnf/virtual_alias_maps.cnf
virtual_mailbox_base = /home/postfix
virtual_mailbox_maps = pgsql:/usr/local/etc/postfix/cnf/virtual_mailbox_maps.cnf
virtual_uid_maps = pgsql:/usr/local/etc/postfix/cnf/virtual_uid_maps.cnf
virtual_gid_maps =  pgsql:/usr/local/etc/postfix/cnf/virtual_gid_maps.cnf
transport_maps = pgsql:/usr/local/etc/postfix/cnf/transport_maps.cnf
local_transport = virtual
local_recipient_maps = $virtual_mailbox_maps

virtual_mailbox_limit_inbox = no
virtual_mailbox_limit_maps=
pgsql:/usr/local/etc/postfix/cnf/virtual_mailbox_limit_maps.cnf
virtual_mailbox_limit_override = yes
virtual_maildir_extended = yes
virtual_create_maildirsize = yes
virtual_mailbox_limit = 100000000
virtual_maildir_limit_message = Mensaje a sobrepasado la quota de
disco de esta cuenta
virtual_overquota_bounce = yes

smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
smtpd_sasl_security_options = noanonymous
#smtpd_sender_login_maps= hash:/usr/local/etc/postfix/map_sender
broken_sasl_auth_clients = yes
smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_sasl_authenticated,
permit_mynetworks,reject_unauth_destination
html_directory = no
##### FIM ##################


############ mailman/aliases ############

# STANZA START: mailman
# CREATED: Fri Apr 13 10:13:07 2007
mailman:             "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe:   "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"
# STANZA END: mailman

# STANZA START: openbsd
# CREATED: Fri Apr 13 11:31:49 2007
openbsd:             "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post openbsd"
openbsd-admin:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin openbsd"
openbsd-bounces:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces openbsd"
openbsd-confirm:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm openbsd"
openbsd-join:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join openbsd"
openbsd-leave:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave openbsd"
openbsd-owner:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner openbsd"
openbsd-request:     "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request openbsd"
openbsd-subscribe:   "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe openbsd"
openbsd-unsubscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe openbsd"
# STANZA END: openbsd
#######################################


############### data/virtual-mailman ######################
openbsd-br.org                  anything
# STANZA START: openbsd
# CREATED: Fri Apr 13 11:31:49 2007
openbsd at openbsd-br.org              openbsd
openbsd-admin at openbsd-br.org        openbsd-admin
openbsd-bounces at openbsd-br.org      openbsd-bounces
openbsd-confirm at openbsd-br.org      openbsd-confirm
openbsd-join at openbsd-br.org         openbsd-join
openbsd-leave at openbsd-br.org        openbsd-leave
openbsd-owner at openbsd-br.org        openbsd-owner
openbsd-request at openbsd-br.org      openbsd-request
openbsd-subscribe at openbsd-br.org    openbsd-subscribe
openbsd-unsubscribe at openbsd-br.org  openbsd-unsubscribe
# STANZA END: openbsd
##############


############mailman/mm_cf.py########
MTA = 'Postfix'

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['openbsd-br.org','openbsd-br.org']
add_virtualhost('listas.openbsd-br.org','openbsd-br.org')

###################################


########### mailman/Default.py #############

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'openbsd-br.org'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.openbsd-br.org'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'

###########################

Thanks
-- 
Giancarlo Rubio

From mkabot at soarol.com  Fri Apr 13 23:37:21 2007
From: mkabot at soarol.com (Michael Kabot)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 17:37:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML causing list-wide bounce?
Message-ID: <004701c77e13$eb961b30$650aa8c0@office>


Hi all,
 
I've been using Mailman to run 200+ lists for almost a year now.  Love the
software, very flexibile.  Earlier this week, one of the list owners
notified me that one of his lists had mysteriously removed all of its
members.  
 
After some investigation I found the following:
- Whenever an HTML message was sent from the owner's business address
- The email was processed by Mailman
- Sent to all list members
- All list members immediately bounced, the email never reaches the list
members
- The bounce score threshold causes the list to delete everyone after two
days (as it should)
- I can repeat the behavior from the owner's email account
- If he switches to text email, there is no problem
- no other member of the list is having the issue
- The bounce messages are not being forwarded to the list admin/owner..
 
I am at the end of my level of knowledge and could use some help
diagnosing/fixing what is going on.
 
Here is my server setup:
- Red Hat Fedora Core 4
- Intel Pentium 4 - 3.0 GHz
- 2GB Memory
- Apache 2.0.54
- Qmail 1.03
- Python 2.4.3
- Mailman 2.1.8
- Preconfigured dedicated server with Plesk 8.1
 
Here is additional information
 
The email message causing the issue
-- .html format http://www.soarol.com/tmp/EmailList-HTMLerror-2.html
-- .msg format http://www.soarol.com/tmp/EmailList-HTMLerror-2.msg
-- Its not the attachment, I've checked that...
 
The mailing list configuration
-- http://www.soarol.com/tmp/mailing-list-config.cfg
-- pretty basic
-- No filters
 
SMTP Log is fine
-------------------------
Apr 13 12:10:07 2007 (2020)
<C42C157596C2E148A6C2B9335F1A223A01240F8C at ga016e0m12.<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
smtp to elmont704p-sthtml for 3 recips, completed in 0.075 seconds
-------------------------
POST Log is fine
Apr 13 12:10:07 2007 (2020) post to elmont704p-sthtml from <[EMAIL
PROTECTED]>, size=88340,
message-id=<C42C157596C2E148A6C2B9335F1A223A01240F8C at ga016e0m12.<[EMAIL
PROTECTED]>>, success
-------------------------
BOUNCE Log shows issue
- This is a test list I have setup to replicate the problem
- The email is not received by any party
- The list admin/owner receives no messages about the bounce 
- Eventually, as expected, the email addresses will be deleted from the list
by automatic bounce processing scores
Apr 13 12:10:09 2007 (2015) <BounceRunner at -1211075860> processing 3
queued bounces
Apr 13 12:10:09 2007 (2015) elmont704p-sthtml: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, already
scored a bounce for date 13-Apr-2007
Apr 13 12:10:09 2007 (2015) elmont704p-sthtml: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, already
scored a bounce for date 13-Apr-2007
Apr 13 12:10:09 2007 (2015) elmont704p-sthtml: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, already
scored a bounce for date 13-Apr-2007
-------------------------
SMTP-FAILURE
- no record of an issue
 
First question.... is this a Mailman or QMail issue?
Second question... I am surprised that anything in HTML could trigger this
behavior.
 
Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

In Service,

Michael Kabot 
President - SOAR 
mkabot at soarol.com  
585-388-0211  
www.soarol.com 
 


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Fri Apr 13 23:49:17 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 17:49:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML causing list-wide bounce?
In-Reply-To: <004701c77e13$eb961b30$650aa8c0@office>
References: <004701c77e13$eb961b30$650aa8c0@office>
Message-ID: <20070413214917.GA1292@allhats.xcski.com>

> The email message causing the issue
> -- .html format http://www.soarol.com/tmp/EmailList-HTMLerror-2.html

First comment - why the hell is he sending javascript in an email message?
That plus the Paypal thing probably screams "scammer" to most mail
filters.  Because it's happening to everybody, I'm betting it's an
outgoing mail filter.

> SMTP Log is fine
> -------------------------
> Apr 13 12:10:07 2007 (2020)
> <C42C157596C2E148A6C2B9335F1A223A01240F8C at ga016e0m12.<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
> smtp to elmont704p-sthtml for 3 recips, completed in 0.075 seconds
> -------------------------

Where is the smtp log for the incoming bounces?  Better yet, replace the
-bounces alias with a real mail address and have a look at the bounce
message.


-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore we must do this."
- Military and Corporate Logic

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Apr 14 15:55:44 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 08:55:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual hosts
In-Reply-To: <87zm5cvh94.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <p06240501c2420a2c8f0e@[192.168.132.163]>
	<PC17602007041117490500785029dc93@Notebook>
	<87bqhuwdx3.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06240501c2434bf53e03@[192.168.132.164]>
	<878xcyvyts.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06240500c244b5e8b03e@[192.168.132.144]>
	<87zm5cvh94.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06240500c2468d8eb204@[192.168.0.2]>

At 4:57 PM +0900 4/13/07, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>  Right, my point is that readers of the Mailman FAQ are are there
>  because they're thinking "Mailman 'should' be able to do something
>  about this", but as I understand it (I haven't actually had to deal
>  with, so I haven't seen it "in the wild") you've saying the rewriting
>  could be happening *anywhere*, so there's not much that Mailman can
>  do.

Correct.  There's nothing that Mailman can do to help with this situation.

>  So site admins need to make sure via the DNS, not Mailman, that what
>  goes out is what is going to come back.  Right?

Also correct.  But we need something in our FAQ to identify what the 
real problem is and what the appropriate admins will have to do, 
because Mailman administrators will certainly be affected by this 
kind of thing, even if there's nothing they can do to prevent it.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Apr 14 15:59:39 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 08:59:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML causing list-wide bounce?
In-Reply-To: <20070413214917.GA1292@allhats.xcski.com>
References: <004701c77e13$eb961b30$650aa8c0@office>
	<20070413214917.GA1292@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <p06240501c2468e48dd67@[192.168.0.2]>

At 5:49 PM -0400 4/13/07, Paul Tomblin wrote:

>>  The email message causing the issue
>>  -- .html format http://www.soarol.com/tmp/EmailList-HTMLerror-2.html
>
>  First comment - why the hell is he sending javascript in an email message?
>  That plus the Paypal thing probably screams "scammer" to most mail
>  filters.  Because it's happening to everybody, I'm betting it's an
>  outgoing mail filter.

If so, then Michael would be well advised to look at the mail 
filtering process that is being used on the mail system and the 
Mailman server.  For obvious performance reasons, you want to do all 
mail filtering on the inbound leg only, and avoid any further 
filtering on the outbound leg.

If that had been done in this case, the message would have been 
rejected before it ever got to Mailman, and once the message was 
cleaned up, it wouldn't have resulted in all the rejections from the 
outbound filter -- because there wouldn't have been any outbound 
filter.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From ptomblin at xcski.com  Sat Apr 14 16:43:57 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 10:43:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML causing list-wide bounce?
In-Reply-To: <p06240501c2468e48dd67@[192.168.0.2]>
References: <004701c77e13$eb961b30$650aa8c0@office>
	<20070413214917.GA1292@allhats.xcski.com>
	<p06240501c2468e48dd67@[192.168.0.2]>
Message-ID: <4620E8AD.4000005@xcski.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 5:49 PM -0400 4/13/07, Paul Tomblin wrote:
> 
>>>  The email message causing the issue
>>>  -- .html format http://www.soarol.com/tmp/EmailList-HTMLerror-2.html
>>
>>  First comment - why the hell is he sending javascript in an email 
>> message?
>>  That plus the Paypal thing probably screams "scammer" to most mail
>>  filters.  Because it's happening to everybody, I'm betting it's an
>>  outgoing mail filter.
> 
> If so, then Michael would be well advised to look at the mail filtering 
> process that is being used on the mail system and the Mailman server.  
> For obvious performance reasons, you want to do all mail filtering on 
> the inbound leg only, and avoid any further filtering on the outbound leg.

I found that the postfix /etc/postfix/access file allows you to specify 
domains that can't send you email (for instance, I reject anything from 
*.com.cn), but it also prevents you from sending email to those domains.
So it's possible that a locally created email would not trigger any 
incoming mail filter but would trigger those same filters on the outbound.


-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com>
"Stay calm, be brave, and wait for the signs!"

From msapiro at value.net  Sun Apr 15 04:20:11 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 19:20:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with virtual domain
In-Reply-To: <d8e57f270704130733g7c45e0bcrf891142a450a1d0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704141920110296abc4ef93@Notebook>

Giancarlo Rubio wrote:
>
>I'm try to configure mailman with postfix and have a mistake when send
>mail to server. The web interface is run correctly.
>
>
>My list (virtual domain)
>openbsd at openbsd-br.org
>
>My real domain
>pontonetsistemas.com.br
>
>When i send a mail to list i get this message (int the mta)
>
>Apr 13 08:29:27 fileserver postfix/qmgr[53878]: E38C71CCD1:
>from=<gianrubio at gmail.com>, size=1722, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>Apr 13 08:29:27 fileserver postfix/virtual[68735]: E38C71CCD1:
>to=<openbsd at pontonetsistemas.com.br>,
>orig_to=<openbsd at openbsd-br.org>, relay=virtual, delay=0.49,
>delays=0.47/0.01/0/0.01, dsn=5.1.1, status=bounced (unknown user:
>"openbsd at pontonetsistemas.com.br")
>- Mostrar texto das mensagens anteriores -
>
>I find similar errors on this list, but no way to solve this
>
>My configurations files
<snip>

>############mailman/mm_cf.py########
>MTA = 'Postfix'
>
>POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['openbsd-br.org','openbsd-br.org']


It is unnecessary to have a domain listed more than once in
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS (but it does no harm).



Warning, I know almost nothing about Postfx.

All the mailman stuff, and as far as I can tell the Postfix stuff too,
looks fine to me. This is really a Postfix question, not a Mailman
question.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Apr 15 04:42:38 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 19:42:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help: Digests not working after upgrade
In-Reply-To: <461F794E.78CA.00B0.1@ukzn.ac.za>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704141942380453abc4f04b@Notebook>

Yasean Khan wrote:
>> 
>>Senddigests when executed does nothing.. nothing gets written to the
>>log either.
>
>
>Is there a lists/<listname>/digest.mbox file? Is the list's
>digest_send_periodic attribute set to Yes?
>====>  yes to both


Then assuming cron/sendigests is pointing at the right Mailman, a
digest should be sent or there should be some error reported in
Mailman's error log.

Is prefix set correctly in cron/paths.py? it should contain in your
case there should be

prefix = '/usr/lib/mailman/'

in cron/paths.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From md6969 at gmail.com  Sun Apr 15 11:49:57 2007
From: md6969 at gmail.com (Martin Dennett)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 10:49:57 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topics and senders
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007040416172800466905a9aa@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007040416172800466905a9aa@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4621F545.8060301@gmail.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Martin Dennett wrote:
>
>   
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>     
>>> What Mailman version is this, and is it a package or a source install?
>>>
>>> I've only actually tested this on 2.1.5, but I see nothing in the code
>>> in other versions that would affect it.
>>>       
>> It's version 2.1.9.cp2, and a package. I'm with Site 5.
>>     
>
>
> OK. I've tested this now with Mailman 2.1.9+ with the same result,
> namely an urgent message is sent to all list members regardless of
> delivery status, regular/digest or other filters.
>
> Thus, not sending urgent messages to delivery disabled members in your
> case is most likely a cPanel 'feature'. See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.
>
> In any case, it seems that using the Urgent: header for these kinds of
> messages is still a good solution for you as your Topics method didn't
> deliver to delivery disabled members either, nor did it deliver
> immediately to digest members, and the Urgent: header avoids the reply
> problem with topics.
Mark

Sorry for the delay - it's been a busy week...

I'll accept that it's down to cPanel - but I won't push my provider, for 
reasons I need not go into here.

I got my Topics issue sorted a while back, thanks to another member 
(whose name escapes me). What I did at that time was to edit the HTML 
page for user options to remove the disable delivery option, so that 
everybody either *has* to get mail that matches the topic, or sees it in 
the digest. I think in future I'll go with the Urgent: header though as 
it does avoid being bombarded with loads of emails asking "why am I 
getting this?"

Thanks for all you help

MD


From mkabot at soarol.com  Sun Apr 15 22:56:00 2007
From: mkabot at soarol.com (Michael Kabot)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 16:56:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML causing list-wide bounce?
In-Reply-To: <20070413214917.GA1292@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <000001c77fa0$79956fc0$650aa8c0@office>


Paul,

My apologies... The link got messed up, the HTML content of the email is at
http://www.soarol.com/tmp/EmailList-HTMLerror-2.txt.  The other link you saw
was a web page, which did have javascript and links to PayPal.

Excellent suggestion.  I will replace the -bounces address and see what I
get on Monday when I can get the customer to send more test messages.

I am not fluent in Qmail.  Finally found the logs for Qmail which was not in
the /var/log location, but rather deep under a Plesk directory.

The logs shows:
- the email coming into Mailman
- Mailman sending to each of the 3 list members
- my service provider's SMTP server (64.202.189.86) rejecting the message

Looks like you are right, just not my SMTP server rejecting it.

Am I reading these right?

Apr 13 12:10:05 mtws1 relaylock: /var/qmail/bin/relaylock: mail from [IP
PROTECTED]:6416 (mx5.[DOMAIN PROTECTED])
Apr 13 12:10:06 mtws1 qmail: 1176491406.512017 new msg 7808057
Apr 13 12:10:06 mtws1 qmail: 1176491406.512113 info msg 7808057: bytes 88145
from <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> qp 8993 uid 2020
Apr 13 12:10:06 mtws1 qmail: 1176491406.520469 starting delivery 102: msg
7808057 to local 127-sthtml at pack704.com
Apr 13 12:10:06 mtws1 qmail: 1176491406.520524 status: local 1/10 remote
0/20
Apr 13 12:10:06 mtws1 qmail: 1176491406.694746 delivery 102: success:
did_0+0+1/
Apr 13 12:10:06 mtws1 qmail: 1176491406.694895 status: local 0/10 remote
0/20
Apr 13 12:10:06 mtws1 qmail: 1176491406.694942 end msg 7808057
Apr 13 12:10:07 mtws1 relaylock: /var/qmail/bin/relaylock: mail from
127.0.0.1:58283 (localhost)
Apr 13 12:10:07 mtws1 qmail: 1176491407.760007 new msg 7808057
Apr 13 12:10:07 mtws1 qmail: 1176491407.760087 info msg 7808057: bytes 88547
from <elmont704p-sthtml-bounces at pack704.com> qp 9002 uid 2020
Apr 13 12:10:07 mtws1 qmail: 1176491407.778612 starting delivery 103: msg
7808057 to remote [LIST MEMBER #1]
Apr 13 12:10:07 mtws1 qmail: 1176491407.778706 status: local 0/10 remote
1/20
Apr 13 12:10:07 mtws1 qmail: 1176491407.778753 starting delivery 104: msg
7808057 to remote [LIST MEMBER #2]
Apr 13 12:10:07 mtws1 qmail: 1176491407.778796 status: local 0/10 remote
2/20
Apr 13 12:10:07 mtws1 qmail: 1176491407.778840 starting delivery 105: msg
7808057 to remote [LIST MEMBER #3]
Apr 13 12:10:07 mtws1 qmail: 1176491407.778883 status: local 0/10 remote
3/20
Apr 13 12:10:08 mtws1 qmail: 1176491408.245950 delivery 105: failure:
64.202.189.86_failed_after_I_sent_the_message./Remote_host_said:_554_Message
_refused./
Apr 13 12:10:08 mtws1 qmail: 1176491408.246040 status: local 0/10 remote
2/20
Apr 13 12:10:08 mtws1 qmail: 1176491408.287645 delivery 103: failure:
64.202.189.86_failed_after_I_sent_the_message./Remote_host_said:_554_Message
_refused./
Apr 13 12:10:08 mtws1 qmail: 1176491408.287696 status: local 0/10 remote
1/20
Apr 13 12:10:08 mtws1 qmail: 1176491408.325981 delivery 104: failure:
64.202.189.86_failed_after_I_sent_the_message./Remote_host_said:_554_Message
_refused./
Apr 13 12:10:08 mtws1 qmail: 1176491408.326036 status: local 0/10 remote
0/20
Apr 13 12:10:08 mtws1 qmail: 1176491408.355290 bounce msg 7808057 qp 9006
Apr 13 12:10:08 mtws1 qmail: 1176491408.355361 end msg 7808057
Apr 13 12:10:08 mtws1 qmail: 1176491408.356514 new msg 7808062
Apr 13 12:10:08 mtws1 qmail: 1176491408.356564 info msg 7808062: bytes 89388
from <> qp 9006 uid 2522
Apr 13 12:10:08 mtws1 qmail: 1176491408.364749 starting delivery 106: msg
7808062 to local 127-elmont704p-sthtml-bounces at pack704.com
Apr 13 12:10:08 mtws1 qmail: 1176491408.364803 status: local 1/10 remote
0/20
Apr 13 12:10:08 mtws1 qmail: 1176491408.544829 delivery 106: success:
did_0+0+1/
Apr 13 12:10:08 mtws1 qmail: 1176491408.544974 status: local 0/10 remote
0/20
Apr 13 12:10:08 mtws1 qmail: 1176491408.545021 end msg 7808062

  
In Service,
 
Michael Kabot
President - SOAR
  Scouting Online
    Affordable & Reliable
mkabot at soarol.com
585-388-0211

www.soarol.com 
 
 


| -----Original Message-----
| From: Paul Tomblin [mailto:ptomblin at xcski.com]
| Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 5:49 PM
| To: mailman-users at python.org
| Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] HTML causing list-wide bounce?
| 
| 
| > The email message causing the issue
| > -- .html format http://www.soarol.com/tmp/EmailList-HTMLerror-2.html
| 
| First comment - why the hell is he sending javascript in an
| email message? That plus the Paypal thing probably screams 
| "scammer" to most mail filters.  Because it's happening to 
| everybody, I'm betting it's an outgoing mail filter.
| 
| > SMTP Log is fine
| > -------------------------
| > Apr 13 12:10:07 2007 (2020)
| > <C42C157596C2E148A6C2B9335F1A223A01240F8C at ga016e0m12.<[EMAIL 
| > PROTECTED]>> smtp to elmont704p-sthtml for 3 recips, completed in 
| > 0.075 seconds
| > -------------------------
| 
| Where is the smtp log for the incoming bounces?  Better yet,
| replace the -bounces alias with a real mail address and have 
| a look at the bounce message.
| 
| 
| --
| Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
| "We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore we must 
| do this."
| - Military and Corporate Logic
| 
| 


From matt.l.zimmerman at gmail.com  Mon Apr 16 00:12:09 2007
From: matt.l.zimmerman at gmail.com (Matt Zimmerman)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 18:12:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Last Email
Message-ID: <50852730704151512r4dbd8073xc7332656cae7ee40@mail.gmail.com>

Mailman-users,

I have about 1200 lists in mailman 2.1.8. I looking to try and clean these
lists up. Has anybody written any scripts to look through the archives and
find out when the last email was sent to each list.

Thanks.

From ptomblin at xcski.com  Mon Apr 16 00:25:38 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 18:25:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Last Email
In-Reply-To: <50852730704151512r4dbd8073xc7332656cae7ee40@mail.gmail.com>
References: <50852730704151512r4dbd8073xc7332656cae7ee40@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4622A662.7090002@xcski.com>

Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> Mailman-users,
> 
> I have about 1200 lists in mailman 2.1.8. I looking to try and clean these
> lists up. Has anybody written any scripts to look through the archives and
> find out when the last email was sent to each list.
> 

If I were looking for lists that haven't been posted to for a while, I'd 
use the modified time on the mbox files:

cd /var/lib/mailman/archives/private
find . -type f -name \*.mbox -mtime +180 -print


-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com>
"Stay calm, be brave, and wait for the signs!"

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 16 00:29:48 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 15:29:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Last Email
In-Reply-To: <50852730704151512r4dbd8073xc7332656cae7ee40@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070415152948064024cb7e70@msapiro>

Matt Zimmerman wrote:
>
>I have about 1200 lists in mailman 2.1.8. I looking to try and clean these
>lists up. Has anybody written any scripts to look through the archives and
>find out when the last email was sent to each list.

Save the data between the dashed lines as bin/last_post_date.py and run

bin/withlist -a -r last_post_date

----------------------------------------------------------------
import time

def last_post_date(mlist):
    print 'list - %s: last post - %s' % (mlist.real_name,
                        time.ctime(mlist.last_post_time))
----------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 16 01:20:52 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 16:20:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message archiving problem
In-Reply-To: <20070409154310.GA32502@niof.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602007041516205205312fecfec7@msapiro>

Rick Pasotto wrote:

>I have a couple of lists that I send a weekly message to. This message
>has sections that I separate using a line of 60 hyphens. When the
>message gets archived the sections are archived separately but only
>the first has the correct subject line and the others show 'No Subject'.
>
>Why is this happening?


What archiver is this? I don't think pipermail would separate one
message into several apparent messages on boundaries of 60 hyphens.

Apparently what happens is the archiver you are using (which is ?) is
splitting the message into separate messages on the hyphen line
boundaries, and since the subsequent parts have no subject header,
they get archived without a subject. I don't think Mailman/pipermail
is doing this separation. A single post should be archived as one
message unless it containes lines beginning with "From " (*nix mbox
separators), but I think the current archiver escapes extraneous "From
" lines, so even these won't cause a single message to be separated in
the archive.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From manyacool81 at list.ru  Mon Apr 16 02:33:31 2007
From: manyacool81 at list.ru (Elly cool)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 07:33:31 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] program for tel.
Message-ID: <E1HdF9u-000M58-00.manyacool81-list-ru@f77.mail.ru>



looking for somthings new for mobails.

From tracey at fairhousing.com  Mon Apr 16 02:40:34 2007
From: tracey at fairhousing.com (Tracey McCartney)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 19:40:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Support for Cpanel users?
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20070415193707.02fc71b8@getmail.mccartney.net>

I understand from reading the archives that this is not the best place for people to get support if they are simply administering Mailman lists on remote hosts through Cpanel.  Does anyone know of a good source of such support?  User-to-user support is fine, because I know the Cpanel forums are intended to assist purchasers rather than end-users.  Most of the hosts I've dealt with also know precious little about Mailman.


Thanks,

Tracey


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.4.0/761 - Release Date: 4/14/2007 9:36 PM





From rick at niof.net  Mon Apr 16 03:35:04 2007
From: rick at niof.net (Rick Pasotto)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 21:35:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message archiving problem
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007041516205205312fecfec7@msapiro>
References: <20070409154310.GA32502@niof.net>
	<PC17602007041516205205312fecfec7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20070416013503.GB24191@niof.net>

On Sun, Apr 15, 2007 at 04:20:52PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Rick Pasotto wrote:
> 
> >I have a couple of lists that I send a weekly message to. This message
> >has sections that I separate using a line of 60 hyphens. When the
> >message gets archived the sections are archived separately but only
> >the first has the correct subject line and the others show 'No Subject'.
> >
> >Why is this happening?
> 
> 
> What archiver is this?

It must be the default as I certainly haven't changed anything. 

If I were using some external archiver why would I ask about it on this
list?

> I don't think pipermail would separate one
> message into several apparent messages on boundaries of 60 hyphens.

Just reporting the facts.

> Apparently what happens is the archiver you are using (which is ?) is
> splitting the message into separate messages on the hyphen line
> boundaries, and since the subsequent parts have no subject header,
> they get archived without a subject. I don't think Mailman/pipermail
> is doing this separation. A single post should be archived as one
> message unless it containes lines beginning with "From " (*nix mbox
> separators), but I think the current archiver escapes extraneous "From
> " lines, so even these won't cause a single message to be separated in
> the archive.

What should happen and what *does* happen evidently are not the same.

-- 
"In 1792, there was [enacted] a death penalty for counterfeiting.
 I think it should be applied to the Federal Reserve." -- Ron Paul
    Rick Pasotto    rick at niof.net    http://www.niof.net

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 16 04:47:21 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 19:47:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message archiving problem
In-Reply-To: <20070416013503.GB24191@niof.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602007041519472105156a25f078@msapiro>

Rick Pasotto wrote:

>On Sun, Apr 15, 2007 at 04:20:52PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> What archiver is this?
>
>It must be the default as I certainly haven't changed anything. 
>
>If I were using some external archiver why would I ask about it on this
>list?


Stranger things have happened.


>> I don't think pipermail would separate one
>> message into several apparent messages on boundaries of 60 hyphens.
>
>Just reporting the facts.

<snip>

>What should happen and what *does* happen evidently are not the same.


What Mailman version is this?

Can you provide a sample message that will illustrate the problem when
posted to a list?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rick at niof.net  Mon Apr 16 04:58:32 2007
From: rick at niof.net (Rick Pasotto)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 22:58:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message archiving problem
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007041519472105156a25f078@msapiro>
References: <20070416013503.GB24191@niof.net>
	<PC17602007041519472105156a25f078@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20070416025831.GC24191@niof.net>

On Sun, Apr 15, 2007 at 07:47:21PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> What Mailman version is this?

Sorry. I should have specified before. I'm running debian 2.1.9.

> Can you provide a sample message that will illustrate the problem when
> posted to a list?

attached

If you'll go to http://qctm.org/pipermail/qctm/2007-March/thread.html
you'll see the three pieces.

-- 
"Only one thing can conquer war - that attitude of mind which can see
 nothing in war but destruction and annihilation" -- Ludwig von Mises
    Rick Pasotto    rick at niof.net    http://www.niof.net
-------------- next part --------------
>From qctm-bounces at qctm.org Sat Mar 10 16:33:01 2007
Return-path: <qctm-bounces at qctm.org>
Envelope-to: rick at niof.net
Delivery-date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 16:33:01 -0500
Received: from localhost
	([127.0.0.1] helo=mnr.niof.net ident=list)
	by mnr.niof.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63)
	(envelope-from <qctm-bounces at qctm.org>)
	id 1HQ9BL-0003LW-42; Sat, 10 Mar 2007 16:32:57 -0500
Received: from rick by mnr.niof.net with local (Exim 4.63)
	(envelope-from <rick at niof.net>) id 1HQ9B8-0003LO-NC
	for qctm at qctm.org; Sat, 10 Mar 2007 16:32:44 -0500
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 16:32:38 -0500
To: qctm at qctm.org
Message-ID: <20070310213238.GA12704 at niof.net>
Mail-Followup-To: qctm at qctm.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Disposition: inline
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11)
From: Rick Pasotto <rick at niof.net>
X-BeenThere: qctm at qctm.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: <qctm.qctm.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://qctm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/qctm>,
	<mailto:qctm-request at qctm.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://qctm.org/pipermail/qctm>
List-Post: <mailto:qctm at qctm.org>
List-Help: <mailto:qctm-request at qctm.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://qctm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/qctm>,
	<mailto:qctm-request at qctm.org?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: qctm-bounces at qctm.org
Errors-To: qctm-bounces at qctm.org
X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1
X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: qctm-bounces at qctm.org
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.7-deb (2006-10-05) on mnr.niof.net
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.2 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL 
	autolearn=unavailable version=3.1.7-deb
Subject: [Qctm] Weekly Report for 03/06/2007
X-SA-Exim-Version: 4.2.1 (built Tue, 09 Jan 2007 17:23:22 +0000)
X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes (on mnr.niof.net)
Content-Length: 3206
Lines: 76


The audio files for this week's meeting are:
http://qctm.org/audio/qctm-070306-all.mp3
http://qctm.org/audio/qctm-070306-evals.mp3
http://qctm.org/audio/qctm-070306-pasotto.mp3
http://qctm.org/audio/qctm-070306-teeters.mp3
http://qctm.org/audio/qctm-070306-topics.mp3

Here's what happened at this week's meeting of Queen City Toastmasters:

         Toastmaster: Phil Neufeld   
 Table Topics Master: Robyn Benjamin 
Table Topics Speaker:*Peter Bolton   Underage partying next door
Table Topics Speaker: Steve Murphy   Annoying neighborhood light
Table Topics Speaker: Phil Neufeld   Neighbor violates HOA covenant
Table Topics Speaker: Roger Pierce   Neighbor's son damages you lawn
             Speaker: Rick Pasotto   An Irreplaceable Spark
             Speaker:*Guest Speaker  Fear
    Master Evaluator: Roger Pierce   
   Speaker Evaluator:*Peter Bolton   (Scott Teeters)
   Speaker Evaluator: Steve Murphy   (Rick Pasotto)
          Grammarian: Peter Bolton   (resplendent)
               Timer: Roger Pierce   

----------------------------------------------------------------------

  resplendent adj
       1: having great beauty and splendor; "a glorious spring
          morning"; "a glorious sunset"; "splendid costumes"; "a
          kind of splendiferous native simplicity" [syn: {glorious},
           {splendid}, {splendiferous}]
       2: richly and brilliantly colorful [syn: {flamboyant}, {unrestrained}]

>From Moby Thesaurus II by Grady Ward, 1.0 [moby-thes]:

  47 Moby Thesaurus words for "resplendent":
     beaming, bedazzling, blazing, blinding, blooming, bright,
     bright and shining, brilliant, charismatic, dazzling, devastating,
     divine, effulgent, flamboyant, flaming, fulgent, fulgid, garish,
     glamorous, glaring, glary, glorious, glowing, gorgeous, heavenly,
     illustrious, killing, lustrous, magic, magnificent, numinous,
     proud, radiant, raving, ravishing, refulgent, shining, sparkling,
     splendent, splendid, splendiferous, splendorous, splendrous,
     stunning, sublime, superb, vivid

----------------------------------------------------------------------

And here's who's currently scheduled for next week (Mar 13, 2007):

Please email Alex Klaus at vpe at qctm.org with any necessary changes or
to get your name added to the schedule.

         Toastmaster: Steve Murphy   
 Table Topics Master: Roger Pierce   
             Speaker: Peter Bolton   
    Master Evaluator: Rick Pasotto   
   Speaker Evaluator: Phil Neufeld   
          Grammarian: Robyn Benjamin 

Hope to see everyone next Tuesday evening, Greystone Restaurant,
3039 South Blvd, for another stimulating meeting of QCTM!
Please arrive at 6:00pm to order your meal.
The meeting starts promptly at 6:30pm.

-- 
"What is morality or ethics? It is a code of values to guide man's
 choices and actions -- the choices and actions that determine the
 purpose and the course of his life. Ethics, as a science, deals
 with discovering and defining such a code."
	-- Ayn Rand, "The Objectivist Ethics"
    Rick Pasotto    rick at niof.net    http://www.niof.net

_______________________________________________
Qctm mailing list
Qctm at qctm.org
http://qctm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/qctm


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 16 05:49:42 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 20:49:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message archiving problem
In-Reply-To: <20070416025831.GC24191@niof.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602007041520494205934537125b@msapiro>

Rick Pasotto wrote:
>
>On Sun, Apr 15, 2007 at 07:47:21PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> 
>> What Mailman version is this?
>
>Sorry. I should have specified before. I'm running debian 2.1.9.
>
>> Can you provide a sample message that will illustrate the problem when
>> posted to a list?
>
>attached
>
>If you'll go to http://qctm.org/pipermail/qctm/2007-March/thread.html
>you'll see the three pieces.
<snip>

<portion of message>

>    Master Evaluator: Roger Pierce   
>   Speaker Evaluator:*Peter Bolton   (Scott Teeters)
>   Speaker Evaluator: Steve Murphy   (Rick Pasotto)
>          Grammarian: Peter Bolton   (resplendent)
>               Timer: Roger Pierce   
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>  resplendent adj
>       1: having great beauty and splendor; "a glorious spring
>          morning"; "a glorious sunset"; "splendid costumes"; "a
>          kind of splendiferous native simplicity" [syn: {glorious},
>           {splendid}, {splendiferous}]
>       2: richly and brilliantly colorful [syn: {flamboyant}, {unrestrained}]
>
>>From Moby Thesaurus II by Grady Ward, 1.0 [moby-thes]:
>
>  47 Moby Thesaurus words for "resplendent":
>     beaming, bedazzling, blazing, blinding, blooming, bright,
>     bright and shining, brilliant, charismatic, dazzling, devastating,
>     divine, effulgent, flamboyant, flaming, fulgent, fulgid, garish,
>     glamorous, glaring, glary, glorious, glowing, gorgeous, heavenly,
>     illustrious, killing, lustrous, magic, magnificent, numinous,
>     proud, radiant, raving, ravishing, refulgent, shining, sparkling,
>     splendent, splendid, splendiferous, splendorous, splendrous,
>     stunning, sublime, superb, vivid
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>And here's who's currently scheduled for next week (Mar 13, 2007):
>
>Please email Alex Klaus at vpe at qctm.org with any necessary changes or
>to get your name added to the schedule.

<snip>


I do not see three pieces in your archive, I see two pieces, and the
split is not at a hyphen line, it is at the "From " line.

The first archive piece is at
<http://qctm.org/pipermail/qctm/2007-March/000318.html> and the second
piece is at <http://qctm.org/pipermail/qctm/2007-March/000319.html>.

I also see a reply to the original post which is split in the same way
at <http://qctm.org/pipermail/qctm/2007-March/000320.html> and
<http://qctm.org/pipermail/qctm/2007-March/000321.html>, and another
reply at <http://qctm.org/pipermail/qctm/2007-March/000322.html> which
is not split because the "From " line is "quoted" in the reply and
thus does not contain "From " in columns 1-5.

I said in my first reply

 A single post should be archived as one message unless it containes
 lines beginning with "From " (*nix mbox separators), but I think the
 current archiver escapes extraneous "From " lines, so even these won't
 cause a single message to be separated in the archive.

For some reason, in your case the "From " line in the body of the
message is not escaped (written as ">From ") when written for the
archiver. Presumably, it is also not escaped when written for delivery
to the list either as it was unescaped in one of the replies.

The actual adding of the initial ">" to lines beginning with "From " is
done by the Python email library. There are known problems resulting
from packagers not including the email library that ships with a
particular Mailman version in Mailman's pythonlib, so it's possible
your Mailman is using an old email library from your Python
installation.

What happens if you do

  bin/withlist -i

and then at the Python (>>>) prompts type

>>> import email
>>> email.__version__

It should print 2.5.8 for Mailman 2.1.9. (Type a control-D to a >>>
prompt to quit.)


In any case, because lines beginning with "From " are mailbox
separators, most MUAs (email clients) will escape such lines in
composed messages, but apparently your MUA doesn't do this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp  Mon Apr 16 06:34:30 2007
From: turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 13:34:30 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message archiving problem
In-Reply-To: <20070416013503.GB24191@niof.net>
References: <20070409154310.GA32502@niof.net>
	<PC17602007041516205205312fecfec7@msapiro>
	<20070416013503.GB24191@niof.net>
Message-ID: <87irbxuecp.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Rick Pasotto writes:

 > It must be the default as I certainly haven't changed anything. 

On the default archiver (pipermail) in default configuration, the
60-hyphen separators are preserved intact in this test:

http://calypso.tux.org/pipermail/xemacs-test/2007-April/000004.html


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Apr 16 06:47:00 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 13:47:00 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message archiving problem
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007041520494205934537125b@msapiro>
References: <20070416025831.GC24191@niof.net>
	<PC17602007041520494205934537125b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <87hcrhudrv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > I said in my first reply
 > 
 >  A single post should be archived as one message unless it containes
 >  lines beginning with "From " (*nix mbox separators), but I think the
 >  current archiver escapes extraneous "From " lines, so even these won't
 >  cause a single message to be separated in the archive.

Are you sure?  pipermail's command line tool obviously has to respect
From_ separators, since it processes whole mailboxes in one gulp.  The
email module does optionally do from-stuffing when it writes out a
message, but it might be tricky to get this right on input, since the
archiver function can operate either pipelined on a single message or
batch processing a whole mbox file.


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Mon Apr 16 13:37:39 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 07:37:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message archiving problem
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007041520494205934537125b@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007041520494205934537125b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <46236003.3010402@xcski.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> What happens if you do
> 
>   bin/withlist -i
> 
> and then at the Python (>>>) prompts type
> 
>>>> import email
>>>> email.__version__
> 
> It should print 2.5.8 for Mailman 2.1.9. (Type a control-D to a >>>
> prompt to quit.)

On my Debian "Stable" (aka "etch") system, it does print out "2.5.8".


-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com>
"Stay calm, be brave, and wait for the signs!"

From khany at ukzn.ac.za  Mon Apr 16 15:05:15 2007
From: khany at ukzn.ac.za (Yasean Khan)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 15:05:15 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help: Digests not working after upgrade
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200704141942380453abc4f04b@Notebook>
References: <461F794E.78CA.00B0.1@ukzn.ac.za>
	<PC1760200704141942380453abc4f04b@Notebook>
Message-ID: <462390AA.78CA.00B0.1@ukzn.ac.za>



>>> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> 15 April 2007 4:42 AM >>>
Yasean Khan wrote:
>> 
>>Senddigests when executed does nothing.. nothing gets written to the
>>log either.
>
>
>Is there a lists/<listname>/digest.mbox file? Is the list's
>digest_send_periodic attribute set to Yes?
>====>  yes to both


Then assuming cron/sendigests is pointing at the right Mailman, a
digest should be sent or there should be some error reported in
Mailman's error log.
===> How does one check that senddigests is pointing to the right
mailman?
 
I can execute senddigests and its sits there for a bit ... but no log
etc is created..
 

Is prefix set correctly in cron/paths.py? it should contain in your
case there should be

prefix = '/usr/lib/mailman/'

in cron/paths.py.
===> yes there are those pre-fixes in that file
 
prefix = '/usr/lib/mailman'
exec_prefix = '${prefix}'
 

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


Please find our Email Disclaimer here: http://www.ukzn.ac.za/disclaimer/

From gherzig at fmed.uba.ar  Mon Apr 16 15:40:04 2007
From: gherzig at fmed.uba.ar (Gerardo Herzig)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 10:40:04 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list of disabled address?
Message-ID: <46237CB4.9090107@fmed.uba.ar>

Hi all. I would like to know if there is some way to view all the 
accounts who has been disabled (p.e. due for a bounce threshold limit 
reached) for a mailman list.

Thanks!
Gerardo

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 16 17:10:25 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 08:10:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list of disabled address?
In-Reply-To: <46237CB4.9090107@fmed.uba.ar>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704160810250828bc35f6b5@msapiro>

Gerardo Herzig wrote:

>Hi all. I would like to know if there is some way to view all the 
>accounts who has been disabled (p.e. due for a bounce threshold limit 
>reached) for a mailman list.


If you have command line access to your Mailman installation, use
bin/list_members for this. See 'bin/list_members --help'.

If you don't have command line access to your Mailman installation, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>.
You can use the script referred to in that FAQ to extract the list of
members and flags via the admin web interface, and post-process the
result to get the subset you want.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From calvin at siryn.co.za  Sun Apr 15 00:49:21 2007
From: calvin at siryn.co.za (Calvin Muller)
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 00:49:21 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can someone help me?
Message-ID: <20070414224849.M27406@siryn.co.za>

I?m trying to use Mailman on an Ubuntu 6.10 system with Postfix but when I
send mails it gets sent to the shunt folder, and if I try run the unshunt
command I get the following error in the /var/log/mailman/error

Apr 15 00:42:40 2007 (21596) send_digests() failed: us-ascii
Apr 15 00:42:41 2007 (21593) uncaught archiver exception at filepos: 0
Apr 15 00:42:41 2007 (21593) Uncaught runner exception: us-ascii
Apr 15 00:42:41 2007 (21593) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose
    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 214, in ArchiveMail
    h.processUnixMailbox(f)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 564, in
processUni                                                                   
         xMailbox
    m = mbox.next()
  File "mailbox.py", line 35, in next
    return self.factory(_Subfile(self.fp, start, stop))
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 89, in scrubber
    return mailbox.scrub(msg)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 109, in scrub
    return self._scrubber(self._mlist, msg)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 397, in process
    replace_payload_by_text(msg, sep.join(text), charset)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 175, in
replace_pay                                                                  
          load_by_text
    msg.set_payload(text, charset)
  File "email/Message.py", line 218, in set_payload
  File "email/Message.py", line 242, in set_charset
TypeError: us-ascii

Apr 15 00:42:41 2007 (21593) SHUNTING:
1176590559.6214781+80fc2b5dadb33ed764461f                                    
                                        

--
Calvin Muller


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 16 17:25:02 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 08:25:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help: Digests not working after upgrade
In-Reply-To: <462390AA.78CA.00B0.1@ukzn.ac.za>
Message-ID: <PC17602007041608250207505c784c70@msapiro>

Yasean Khan wrote:
>
>>>> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> 15 April 2007 4:42 AM >>>
>
>Then assuming cron/sendigests is pointing at the right Mailman, a
>digest should be sent or there should be some error reported in
>Mailman's error log.
>===> How does one check that senddigests is pointing to the right
>mailman?


By checking cron/paths.py as below.

 
>I can execute senddigests and its sits there for a bit ... but no log
>etc is created..


Do you mean by this that nothing is written to Mailman's error log? If
so, then I am as puzzled as you.


>Is prefix set correctly in cron/paths.py? it should contain in your
>case there should be
>
>prefix = '/usr/lib/mailman/'
>
>in cron/paths.py.
>===> yes there are those pre-fixes in that file
> 
>prefix = '/usr/lib/mailman'
>exec_prefix = '${prefix}'

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 16 17:38:09 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 08:38:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can someone help me?
In-Reply-To: <20070414224849.M27406@siryn.co.za>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704160838090000fcf5c089@msapiro>

Calvin Muller wrote:

>I'm trying to use Mailman on an Ubuntu 6.10 system with Postfix but when I
>send mails it gets sent to the shunt folder, and if I try run the unshunt
>command I get the following error in the /var/log/mailman/error
>
>Apr 15 00:42:40 2007 (21596) send_digests() failed: us-ascii
>Apr 15 00:42:41 2007 (21593) uncaught archiver exception at filepos: 0
>Apr 15 00:42:41 2007 (21593) Uncaught runner exception: us-ascii
>Apr 15 00:42:41 2007 (21593) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
<snip>
>  File "email/Message.py", line 218, in set_payload
>  File "email/Message.py", line 242, in set_charset
>TypeError: us-ascii
>
>Apr 15 00:42:41 2007 (21593) SHUNTING:
>1176590559.6214781+80fc2b5dadb33ed764461f                                  


See the thread at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-April/056531.html>.
This is a bug in Python's email library version 4.0.1, but the problem
in your case, is your Mailman package does not contain the email
library in Mailman's pythonlib/ directory.

There should be an email 2.5.x (depending on Mailman version) library
in Mailman's pythonlib/. This is a packaging issue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From david at vizion2000.net  Mon Apr 16 17:50:10 2007
From: david at vizion2000.net (David Southwell)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 08:50:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Relative path rather than absolute???
Message-ID: <200704160850.10450.david@vizion2000.net>

Difficulty with list creation procedures.

My webserver is intended to host a number of sites each one of which will 
provide, among other things,maillists. The primary site is www.vizion200.net.
Access to www.vizion2000.net/mailman/create responds with the result that the 
mailing list has been created. The source code read by the browser,for the 
page is shown below:

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<LINK REL="SHORTCUT ICON" HREF="/usr2/virtualwebs/icons/mm-icon.png">
<META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<TITLE>Mailing list creation results</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgcolor="white">

<table WIDTH="100%" BORDER="0">
? <tr>
? ? <td BGCOLOR="#99ccff"><center><strong><font size="+1">Mailing list
creation results</font></strong></center></td>
? </tr>
? <tr>
? ? <td>You have successfully created the mailing list
? ? <b>mytest6</b> and notification has been sent to the list owner
? ? <b>david at vizion2000.net</b>. ?You can now:</td>
? </tr>
? <tr>
? ? <td>
? ? ? ? <ul>
? ? ? ? <li><a
href="http://www.vizion2000.net/mailman/listinfo/mytest5">Visit the list's
info page</a>
? ? ? ? <li><a href="http://www.vizion2000.net/mailman/admin/mytest5">Visit
the list's admin page</a>
? ? ? ? <li><a href="http://www.vizion2000.net/mailman/create">Create
another list</a>
? ? ? ? </ul>
</td>
? </tr>
</table>
<hr>Return to the <a
href="http://www.vizion2000.net/mailman/listinfo">general list
overview</a><br>Return to the <a
href="http://www.vizion2000.net/mailman/admin">administrative list
overview</a>
<table WIDTH="100%" BORDER="0">
? <tr>
? ? <td><img src="/usr2/virtualwebs/icons/mailman.jpg" alt="Delivered by
Mailman" border=0><br>version 2.1.9</td>
? ? <td><img src="/usr2/virtualwebs/icons/PythonPowered.png" alt="Python
Powered" border=0></td>
? ? <td><img src="/usr2/virtualwebs/icons/powerlogo.gif" alt="Powered by
FreeBSD" border=0></td>
? </tr>
</table>

</BODY>
</HTML>

Each of the above referrer lines for the img_src are shown with the absolute 
path correctly specified in the page source.
-------------------------------------------------------

However the apache server is receiving incorrect path requests from mailman:
_______________________________________________________________________

[Mon Apr 16 08:28:18 2007] [error] [client 192.168.15.1] File does not 
exist: /usr2/virtualwebs/vizion2000.net/usr2, referer:
                                                            ^^
 http://www.vizion2000.net/mailman/create
[Mon Apr 16 08:28:18 2007] [error] [client 192.168.15.1] File does not 
exist: /usr2/virtualwebs/vizion2000.net/usr2, referer: 
http://www.vizion2000.net/mailman/create
[Mon Apr 16 08:28:18 2007] [error] [client 192.168.15.1] File does not 
exist: /usr2/virtualwebs/vizion2000.net/usr2, referer: 
http://www.vizion2000.net/mailman/create
[Mon Apr 16 08:28:54 2007] [error] [client 192.168.15.1] File does not 
exist: /usr2/virtualwebs/vizion2000.net/usr2, referer: 
http://www.vizion2000.net/mailman/create
[Mon Apr 16 08:28:54 2007] [error] [client 192.168.15.1] File does not 
exist: /usr2/virtualwebs/vizion2000.net/usr2, referer: 
http://www.vizion2000.net/mailman/create
[Mon Apr 16 08:28:54 2007] [error] [client 192.168.15.1] File does not 
exist: /usr2/virtualwebs/vizion2000.net/usr2, referer: 
http://www.vizion2000.net/mailman/create

__________________________________________

It looks as though mailman is trying to add whole or part of the absolute path 
to the absolute path!! weird.
_______________________________
When I checked the properties for each of the three icons at the bottom of the 
mail list creation page I found that the sought path is, for example:
http://www.vizion2000.net/usr2/virtualwebs/icons/PythonPowered.png
but should be
/usr2/virtualwebs/icons/PythonPowered.png

The relevant line in mm_cfg.py
IMAGE_LOGOS = '/usr2/virtualwebs/icons/'

I am not certain whether it may/maynot help to know that all web sites are 
located at the absolute paths /usr2/virtualwebs/<my.domain.ain>.

Freebsd 6.1
Postfix
Apache22
Thanks in advance 

David

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 16 17:56:04 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 08:56:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message archiving problem
In-Reply-To: <87hcrhudrv.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704160856040390b2c1b92a@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>Mark Sapiro writes:
>
> > I said in my first reply
> > 
> >  A single post should be archived as one message unless it containes
> >  lines beginning with "From " (*nix mbox separators), but I think the
> >  current archiver escapes extraneous "From " lines, so even these won't
> >  cause a single message to be separated in the archive.
>
>Are you sure?  pipermail's command line tool obviously has to respect
>From_ separators, since it processes whole mailboxes in one gulp.  The
>email module does optionally do from-stuffing when it writes out a
>message, but it might be tricky to get this right on input, since the
>archiver function can operate either pipelined on a single message or
>batch processing a whole mbox file.


I tested it with the current 2.1 branch and the From_ lines are stuffed
in the outgoing message, the digests and the archive. This works
because Mailman is working with a message object which is flattened to
text for all of these purposes via a generator which uses the default
True value for mangle_from_.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 16 18:36:21 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 09:36:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Relative path rather than absolute???
In-Reply-To: <200704160850.10450.david@vizion2000.net>
References: <200704160850.10450.david@vizion2000.net>
Message-ID: <4623A605.60208@value.net>

David Southwell wrote:
> Difficulty with list creation procedures.


If I understand what follows, the problem is not with list creation, but 
rather it is with the icon images on all Mailman web pages.

<snip>
>     <td><img src="/usr2/virtualwebs/icons/mailman.jpg" alt="Delivered by
> Mailman" border=0><br>version 2.1.9</td>
>     <td><img src="/usr2/virtualwebs/icons/PythonPowered.png" alt="Python
> Powered" border=0></td>
>     <td><img src="/usr2/virtualwebs/icons/powerlogo.gif" alt="Powered by
> FreeBSD" border=0></td>
<snip>

> Each of the above referrer lines for the img_src are shown with the absolute 
> path correctly specified in the page source.

But it is not the path which will get Apache to the icons because Apache 
is going to prepend the DocumentRoot

> -------------------------------------------------------
> 
> However the apache server is receiving incorrect path requests from mailman:


Because you told Mailman to do this.


> It looks as though mailman is trying to add whole or part of the absolute path 
> to the absolute path!! weird.


Not Mailman, Apache.

> _______________________________
> When I checked the properties for each of the three icons at the bottom of the 
> mail list creation page I found that the sought path is, for example:
> http://www.vizion2000.net/usr2/virtualwebs/icons/PythonPowered.png
> but should be
> /usr2/virtualwebs/icons/PythonPowered.png
> 
> The relevant line in mm_cfg.py
> IMAGE_LOGOS = '/usr2/virtualwebs/icons/'


Which is the root of the problem. If you remove this line from 
mm_cfg.py, you will be left with the Defaults.py setting

IMAGE_LOGOS = '/icons/'

This then will be matched by the

Alias /icons/ "/usr2/virtualwebs/icons/"

that probably exists in the Apache configuration. I may have the details 
of this path wrong, but the idea is that there is already an alias in 
the Apache configuration that points to Apache's icons. You add 
Mailman's icon files to Apache's icons directory, and if necessary, you 
set IMAGE_LOGOS to match Apache's alias for icons.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Apr 16 19:27:45 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 12:27:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML causing list-wide bounce?
In-Reply-To: <000001c77fa0$79956fc0$650aa8c0@office>
References: <000001c77fa0$79956fc0$650aa8c0@office>
Message-ID: <p06240500c2496264a2c4@[192.168.1.64]>

At 4:56 PM -0400 4/15/07, Michael Kabot wrote:

>  I am not fluent in Qmail.  Finally found the logs for Qmail which was not in
>  the /var/log location, but rather deep under a Plesk directory.

Ahh.  Plesk.  See FAQ 6.15.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Apr 16 19:42:39 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 12:42:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message archiving problem
In-Reply-To: <20070416013503.GB24191@niof.net>
References: <20070409154310.GA32502@niof.net>
	<PC17602007041516205205312fecfec7@msapiro>
	<20070416013503.GB24191@niof.net>
Message-ID: <p06240501c24965404e76@[192.168.1.64]>

At 9:35 PM -0400 4/15/07, Rick Pasotto wrote:

>  What should happen and what *does* happen evidently are not the same.

You report what you see, but the description you give in your report 
may have little to do with what is actually happening under the hood.

We need to figure out if there's anything you're leaving out that you 
didn't see or don't think is important/relevant, or if there's 
anything you are reporting which is not actually relevant to the real 
problem, etc....

This is a debugging process we have to go through, and sometimes it 
takes a while.  Please help us to help you.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From mkabot at soarol.com  Mon Apr 16 20:51:18 2007
From: mkabot at soarol.com (Michael Kabot)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:51:18 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML causing list-wide bounce?
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c2496264a2c4@[192.168.1.64]>
Message-ID: <000001c78058$386eeea0$650aa8c0@office>


Brad,

Thanks for the pointer.  

I have Mailman running successfully under Plesk 8.1 including
- an upgraded to the 2.1.8 release last year
- mailman serving lists for virtual domains through an integration with
Plesk & Qmail  

You & Paul helped me greatly, simply by suggesting it was an MTA filter -
which caused me to take a more detailed look at my system and find the Qmail
logs - which then pointed to the issue, my hosting provider's relay server
rejecting the message.

I will stay on the mailman-users list to assist others who may be using
Plesk.  The hosting providers and SWSOFT will be of no use to those trying
to figure out Mailman....
  
In Service,
 
Michael Kabot
President - SOAR
  Scouting Online
    Affordable & Reliable
mkabot at soarol.com
585-388-0211

www.soarol.com 
 
 


| -----Original Message-----
| From: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad at shub-internet.org] 
| Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 1:28 PM
| To: mkabot at soarol.com; mailman-users at python.org
| Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] HTML causing list-wide bounce?
| 
| 
| At 4:56 PM -0400 4/15/07, Michael Kabot wrote:
| 
| >  I am not fluent in Qmail.  Finally found the logs for 
| Qmail which was 
| > not in  the /var/log location, but rather deep under a Plesk 
| > directory.
| 
| Ahh.  Plesk.  See FAQ 6.15.
| 
| -- 
| Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author 
| LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> Slides from 
| Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>
| 


From dennis at e-aa.org  Mon Apr 16 22:50:01 2007
From: dennis at e-aa.org (Dennis Morgan)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 15:50:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] customizing list info pages
Message-ID: <4623E179.3060209@e-aa.org>

I have what is most likely a silly question. At the bottom of every list 
info page you something like this:
<listname> run by mailuser at host.com

Where mailuser at host.com is a mailto link to the list-owner at host.com.

I would like to remove that mailto and substitute a throw away email 
address - one that be changed when the spam level starts to get to high.

Where is the footer info stored, and can I make these changes without 
breaking mailman?

Thank you,

Dennis Morgan

From dennis at e-aa.org  Mon Apr 16 23:53:56 2007
From: dennis at e-aa.org (Dennis Morgan)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 16:53:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] customizing list info pages
In-Reply-To: <4623E179.3060209@e-aa.org>
References: <4623E179.3060209@e-aa.org>
Message-ID: <4623F074.4060202@e-aa.org>

After searching the archives differently I found references to 
"HTMLFormater.py" and the section GetmailmanFooter

The statement/line/what ever you call it that seems to apply reads:
innertext = _('%(listinfo_link)s list run by %(owner_link)s')

Can I just comment that out with a hash?
# innertext = _('%(listinfo_link)s list run by %(owner_link)s')

And then add a line somewhere in the editable section of the HTML (The 
part that can be reached via the admin pages)?

The whole section of HTMLFormater.py is below.

Thank you!

Dennis


class HTMLFormatter:
    def GetMailmanFooter(self):
        ownertext = COMMASPACE.join([Utils.ObscureEmail(a, 1)
                                     for a in self.owner])
        # Remove the .Format() when htmlformat conversion is done.
        realname = self.real_name
        hostname = self.host_name
        listinfo_link  = Link(self.GetScriptURL('listinfo'), 
realname).Format()
        owner_link = Link('mailto:' + self.GetOwnerEmail(), 
ownertext).Format()
        innertext = _('%(listinfo_link)s list run by %(owner_link)s')

Dennis Morgan wrote:
> I have what is most likely a silly question. At the bottom of every list 
> info page you something like this:
> <listname> run by mailuser at host.com
>
> Where mailuser at host.com is a mailto link to the list-owner at host.com.
>
> I would like to remove that mailto and substitute a throw away email 
> address - one that be changed when the spam level starts to get to high.
>
> Where is the footer info stored, and can I make these changes without 
> breaking mailman?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Dennis Morgan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dennis%40e-aa.org
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>
>   

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 16 23:52:36 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:52:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] customizing list info pages
In-Reply-To: <4623E179.3060209@e-aa.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602007041614523601715b5c334f@msapiro>

Dennis Morgan wrote:

>I have what is most likely a silly question. At the bottom of every list 
>info page you something like this:
><listname> run by mailuser at host.com
>
>Where mailuser at host.com is a mailto link to the list-owner at host.com.


mailuser at host.com is the value of the list's owner attribute.


>I would like to remove that mailto and substitute a throw away email 
>address - one that be changed when the spam level starts to get to high.
>
>Where is the footer info stored, and can I make these changes without 
>breaking mailman?


There are various ways to do this, but the way that doesn't require any
code hacking is to edit the listinfo template, but this only works for
the list specific listinfo pages. It doesn't work for the pages of the
admin or admindb interfaces, but since they are password protected,
they probably aren't an issue.

The listinfo template (listinfo.html) can be edited and the edited
template made a list specific, domain specific or site wide template
by following the suggestions in
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>.

You can also edit the listinfo.html template for a single list via the
web by following the "Edit the public HTML pages" link from the admin
pages.

Which ever method you choose, you have to remove the
<MM-Mailman-Footer> pseudo tag at the bottom of the html body and
replace it with the actual html to generate what you want.

If the "list run by" link is going to be a throw away, you can just
leave it out. You can use other <mm-*> pseudo tags in this html. For
example, a different way to generate similar html to that generated by
the <MM-Mailman-Footer> tag is as follows:

<hr><address><a
href="http://<mm-host>/mailman/listinfo/<mm-email-user>"><mm-list-name></a>
list run by <a href="mailto:<mm-owner>">owner_address at
example.com</a><br><a
href="http://<mm-host>/mailman/admin/<mm-email-user>"><mm-list-name>
administrative interface</a> (requires authorization)<br><a
href="http://<mm-host>/mailman/listinfo">Overview of all <mm-host>
mailing lists</a><p>
<table WIDTH="100%" BORDER="0">
  <tr>
    <td><img src="/icons/mailman.jpg" alt="Delivered by Mailman"
border=0><br>version 2.1.9</td>
    <td><img src="/icons/PythonPowered.png" alt="Python Powered"
border=0></td>
    <td><img src="/icons/gnu-head-tiny.jpg" alt="GNU's Not Unix"
border=0></td>
  </tr>
</table>
</address>


Notes:

<mm-*> tags are not case sensitive.

A list of the <mm-*> tags you can use can be found in the definition of
the GetStandardReplacements method in Mailman/HTMLFormatter.py

The tag <mm-email-user> is counterintuitive. It is just the lower case
list name. It is called <mm-email-user> because it is sometimes used
as the 'user' part of the list's email address.

The above html is going to be line-wrapped in some way by my MUA which
may result in extra white space if you use it literally.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 17 00:17:16 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 15:17:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] customizing list info pages
In-Reply-To: <4623F074.4060202@e-aa.org>
Message-ID: <PC176020070416151716053111282bc3@msapiro>

Dennis Morgan wrote:

>After searching the archives differently I found references to 
>"HTMLFormater.py" and the section GetmailmanFooter
>
>The statement/line/what ever you call it that seems to apply reads:
>innertext = _('%(listinfo_link)s list run by %(owner_link)s')
>
>Can I just comment that out with a hash?
># innertext = _('%(listinfo_link)s list run by %(owner_link)s')


After I worked so hard to give you a way that doesn't involve hacking
the code, you say you don't mind hacking the code :-).


>
>And then add a line somewhere in the editable section of the HTML (The 
>part that can be reached via the admin pages)?


You can't simply comment out the "innertext =" line above because then
innertext is undefined and it is still referenced.

The best thing is to replace the line

        innertext = _('%(listinfo_link)s list run by %(owner_link)s')

with

        innertext = something

where 'something' is what you want and exactly how you express
'something' depends on what you want, or it could be just

        innertext = ''

in which case you will get a blank line unless you change

                Container(
                   innertext,
                    '<br>',
                    Link(self.GetScriptURL('admin'),

to

                Container(
                    Link(self.GetScriptURL('admin'),

lower down in the code. Note that in all the above, the exact
indentation must be preserved as it is significant in Python.

Also, this won't really allow you to add the reference in the
listinfo.html template, as everything from the horizontal rule through
the end of the page is generated by the <MM-Mailman-Footer> tag, so
anything you add would be above the horizontal rule or after the logos.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Apr 16 20:58:25 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 13:58:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML causing list-wide bounce?
In-Reply-To: <000001c78058$386eeea0$650aa8c0@office>
References: <000001c78058$386eeea0$650aa8c0@office>
Message-ID: <p06240502c249775c8ce1@[192.168.1.64]>

At 2:51 PM -0400 4/16/07, Michael Kabot wrote:

>  You & Paul helped me greatly, simply by suggesting it was an MTA filter -
>  which caused me to take a more detailed look at my system and find the Qmail
>  logs - which then pointed to the issue, my hosting provider's relay server
>  rejecting the message.

I'm glad you were able to find the root cause of the problem.

>  I will stay on the mailman-users list to assist others who may be using
>  Plesk.  The hosting providers and SWSOFT will be of no use to those trying
>  to figure out Mailman....

That would be greatly appreciated.  So far as I know, we don't have a 
lot of Plesk users on the list, although we do get questions related 
to Mailman under Plesk.  Since we don't have or use Plesk ourselves, 
it's difficult for us to help debug some of those problems.

Thanks again!

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Apr 16 21:06:46 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:06:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Support for Cpanel users?
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20070415193707.02fc71b8@getmail.mccartney.net>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20070415193707.02fc71b8@getmail.mccartney.net>
Message-ID: <p06240503c249786fcd52@[192.168.1.64]>

At 7:40 PM -0500 4/15/07, Tracey McCartney wrote:

>  I understand from reading the archives that this is not the best place
>  for people to get support if they are simply administering Mailman lists
>  on remote hosts through Cpanel.

We don't have or use CPanel ourselves, and they provide a modified 
version of Mailman with their package, so our ability to support 
their modified version is limited.

>                                   Does anyone know of a good source of
>  such support?

If so, please let us know.  We've tried to provide as much 
information and pointers to other resources in the FAQ entry 
regarding CPanel, but we would welcome any additional information 
that we can add to the list.


Of course, if there isn't any other resource, then CPanel users are 
welcome to try to help each other through this list.

Maybe it's also time we set up a separate mailman-cpanel-users list, 
as well as a mailman-plesk-users list.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Tue Apr 17 01:34:06 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 16:34:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Support for Cpanel users?
In-Reply-To: <p06240503c249786fcd52@[192.168.1.64]>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20070415193707.02fc71b8@getmail.mccartney.net>
	<p06240503c249786fcd52@[192.168.1.64]>
Message-ID: <200704162333.l3GNXHC9002215@unreal.eroded.org>

Brad Knowles sent the message below at 12:06 4/16/2007:

>Maybe it's also time we set up a separate mailman-cpanel-users list,
>as well as a mailman-plesk-users list.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

I see the problem with that idea being that there won't be many 
subscribers to either list and the core folks who provide a large 
part of the help on this list won't be on either of those lists 
because they don't use Plesk/cPanel.

In which case, it really becomes next to useless. A critical mass of 
knowledgeable/dedicated people are needed to make user-based support 
lists such as this function in a useful manner.

BTW, I do have access to a Plesk-based server (and I must say I hate 
it, for every task it makes easy, it makes nine more inordinately 
convoluted and hard).

No promises, but there is a possibility from time to time that such 
access could be useful. And to be honest, even though I have such 
access, it is unlikely that I would add yet another list to my many 
subscriptions just on the off chance I might be able to help somebody 
over there.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp  Tue Apr 17 03:38:55 2007
From: turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 10:38:55 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Support for Cpanel users?
In-Reply-To: <p06240503c249786fcd52@[192.168.1.64]>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20070415193707.02fc71b8@getmail.mccartney.net>
	<p06240503c249786fcd52@[192.168.1.64]>
Message-ID: <87irbvu6ds.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brad Knowles writes:

 > Of course, if there isn't any other resource, then CPanel users are 
 > welcome to try to help each other through this list.

+1

Such help might even leak into the FAQ occasionally.

 > Maybe it's also time we set up a separate mailman-cpanel-users list, 
 > as well as a mailman-plesk-users list.

-1

I agree with Dragon's reasoning.


From mkabot at soarol.com  Tue Apr 17 03:45:37 2007
From: mkabot at soarol.com (Michael Kabot)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:45:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Support for Cpanel users?
In-Reply-To: <87irbvu6ds.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <002d01c78092$19ea3b30$650aa8c0@office>


There may be some install/config specific issues for Cpanel & Plesk.  

At the same time, I would guess these users also have a lot of common
mailman questions that have nothing to do with Cpanel/Plesk as well....

I'm for keeping 1 list.  As I stated earlier, I'll stay on to assist with
Plesk users.

  
In Service,
 
Michael Kabot
President - SOAR
  Scouting Online
    Affordable & Reliable
mkabot at soarol.com
585-388-0211

www.soarol.com 
 
 


| -----Original Message-----
| From: mailman-users-bounces+mkabot=soarol.com at python.org 
| [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+mkabot=soarol.com at python.org] 
| On Behalf Of Stephen J. Turnbull
| Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 9:39 PM
| To: Brad Knowles
| Cc: mailman-users at python.org; Tracey McCartney
| Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Support for Cpanel users?
| 
| 
| Brad Knowles writes:
| 
|  > Of course, if there isn't any other resource, then CPanel 
| users are 
|  > welcome to try to help each other through this list.
| 
| +1
| 
| Such help might even leak into the FAQ occasionally.
| 
|  > Maybe it's also time we set up a separate 
| mailman-cpanel-users list, 
|  > as well as a mailman-plesk-users list.
| 
| -1
| 
| I agree with Dragon's reasoning.
| 
| ------------------------------------------------------
| Mailman-Users mailing list
| Mailman-Users at python.org 
| http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
| Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
| Searchable Archives: 
| http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
| Unsubscribe: 
| http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mkabot%40
soarol.com

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From jalmario at nc.rr.com  Tue Apr 17 04:08:43 2007
From: jalmario at nc.rr.com (Jojo Almario)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 22:08:43 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] flowed.text
Message-ID: <00a601c78095$5358a7f0$64010a0a@Jojo>

I had found a fix for inserted line breaks in Mailman on source fourge
(<https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail
<https://mail.intrahealth.org/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=https://sourceforge.
net/tracker/index.php?func=detail%26aid=1495122%26group_id=103%26atid=100103
> &aid=1495122&group_id=103&atid=100103> and one of Mark Sapiro's posts),
but I don't have any idea how to apply it?  I am not the admin for the
mailman server, but I do have an account on that server and I can do some
command line.  Has anyone applied the patch that can lend some guidance.

 

thanks


From justbrits at comcast.net  Tue Apr 17 06:03:48 2007
From: justbrits at comcast.net (JB@comcast)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 22:03:48 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Support for Cpanel users?
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20070415193707.02fc71b8@getmail.mccartney.net><p06240503c249786fcd52@[192.168.1.64]>
	<200704162333.l3GNXHC9002215@unreal.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <04c701c780a5$66d78cf0$6401a8c0@actualshop>

<<I see the problem with that idea being that there won't be many subscribers to either list and the core folks who provide a large part of the help on this list won't be on either of those lists because they don't use Plesk/cPanel.>>

As a "captive" of cPanel, I feel the need to add my .02 here.

Dragon is 100% correct.

Even tho I don't have command access I have learned a LOT about MailMan via THIS List for which I am very grateful!!

Now to "stir the pot" -:), is it possible for a Server Provider (bluehost.com is THE BEST with the BEST "bang-for-the-buck" and the MOST responsive Tech group I have EVER been exposed to!!) to dump the cPanel version of MM and do a source install that would work similar to the pre-package version??

My sincerest THANKS to all you "solvers/teachers" !!

Ed
www.justbrits.com

From kalin at el.net  Tue Apr 17 05:36:55 2007
From: kalin at el.net (kalin mintchev)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 23:36:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_POLICY
Message-ID: <60994.68.165.89.71.1176781015.squirrel@mail.el.net>

hi all...

i'm really tired of clients batching over the subscription confirmation:
"but why?", "nobody will do it and we goanna lose people?", "it's to
difficult", "can we do it without it?!", "our list is special..", etc,
etc...

so i did change the settings in Defaults.py but it's still asking for
confirmation...  what am i doing wrong?

in the mm_cfg.py it says:

from Defaults import *

so that should take care of it if i change it in Defaults.py?!?

relevant section from Defaults.py:

#

Yes = yes = On = on = True
No = no = Off = off = False

# SUBSCRIBE POLICY
# 0 - open list (only when ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE is set to 1) **
# 1 - confirmation required for subscribes
# 2 - admin approval required for subscribes
# 3 - both confirmation and admin approval required
#
# ** please do not choose option 0 if you are not allowing open
# subscribes (next variable)
### DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_POLICY = 1
DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_POLICY = 0

# Does this site allow completely unchecked subscriptions?
#### ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE = No
ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE = 1  ### => i tried Yes, True, yes

.... then restart the runners ......

how, if at all, can i do this per list and not for the whole site?!


thanks....





From mkabot at soarol.com  Tue Apr 17 05:41:51 2007
From: mkabot at soarol.com (Michael Kabot)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 23:41:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Support for Cpanel users?
In-Reply-To: <04c701c780a5$66d78cf0$6401a8c0@actualshop>
Message-ID: <000801c780a2$566ade10$650aa8c0@office>


Ed,

| Now to "stir the pot" -:), is it possible for a Server 
| Provider (bluehost.com is THE BEST with the BEST 
| "bang-for-the-buck" and the MOST responsive Tech group I have 
| EVER been exposed to!!) to dump the cPanel version of MM and 
| do a source install that would work similar to the 
| pre-package version??

I doubt you will get a hosting company to do that.... 

That would require the provider to directly support mailman themselves vs.
keeping it bundled under Cpanel.

It might be a thought to create a FAQ on how to upgrade Cpanel/Plesk to the
latest version of Mailman and keep it up to date.  I'm not familiar with
Cpanel.....

  
In Service,
 
Michael Kabot
President - SOAR
  Scouting Online
    Affordable & Reliable
mkabot at soarol.com
585-388-0211

www.soarol.com 
 
 


| -----Original Message-----
| From: mailman-users-bounces+mkabot=soarol.com at python.org 
| [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+mkabot=soarol.com at python.org] 
| On Behalf Of JB at comcast
| Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 12:04 AM
| To: mailman-users at python.org
| Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Support for Cpanel users?
| 
| 
| <<I see the problem with that idea being that there won't be 
| many subscribers to either list and the core folks who 
| provide a large part of the help on this list won't be on 
| either of those lists because they don't use Plesk/cPanel.>>
| 
| As a "captive" of cPanel, I feel the need to add my .02 here.
| 
| Dragon is 100% correct.
| 
| Even tho I don't have command access I have learned a LOT 
| about MailMan via THIS List for which I am very grateful!!
| 
| 
| My sincerest THANKS to all you "solvers/teachers" !!
| 
| Ed
| www.justbrits.com
| ------------------------------------------------------
| Mailman-Users mailing list
| Mailman-Users at python.org 
| http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
| Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
| Searchable Archives: 
| http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
| Unsubscribe: 
| http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mkabot%40
soarol.com

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Apr 17 05:56:01 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:56:01 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Support for Cpanel users?
In-Reply-To: <04c701c780a5$66d78cf0$6401a8c0@actualshop>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20070415193707.02fc71b8@getmail.mccartney.net>
	<p06240503c249786fcd52@[192.168.1.64]>
	<200704162333.l3GNXHC9002215@unreal.eroded.org>
	<04c701c780a5$66d78cf0$6401a8c0@actualshop>
Message-ID: <87d523u01a.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

JB at comcast writes:

 > is it possible for a Server Provider to dump the cPanel version of
 > MM and do a source install that would work similar to the
 > pre-package version??

Depends on what you mean by "work similarly", of course.  There are
four points of view: list user, list admin, site admin, and ISP tech
support.  The first two will see no change, the site admin will see
little adverse change, I suppose.  But to the ISP tech support, there
are several possible issues.

IIRC, one technical advantage of cPanel (and maybe Plesk) is that they
seamlessly handle large-scale virtual hosting.  Mailman normally has a
restriction that no two lists handled by a single installation may
have the same name, even if they are on different virtual hosts.
cPanel covers this up, not only from users and the list/site admins,
but from tech support at the hosting service as well.  This feature is
planned for a future release, but IIRC for 2.2, not in the 2.1 series.

Second, cPanel provides a single virtual host management interface.
Although any given site manager (== you) will probably not mind very
much, the ISP tech support has to worry about a significant increase
in workload (long term) from users confused by a somewhat different MI
for Mailman.

Third, any such transition imposes a (short-term) workload.  They have
to think about this as an investment.  Are the returns to them
sufficient to justify it?  They may not be, given that you're already
very satisfied with your host and unlikely to leave.

Fourth, cPanel may also provide services to the ISP (log management
and summaries, MI troubleshooting, don't-ask-me-I-don't-use-cPanel ;-)
that they will be loth to forego.

I think you should ask your provider what they think about this
issue.  Make it plain how much work you personally are willing to put
in as a liaison to Mailman development, and things like that.  They
are likely to take the position that the tradeoff they have chosen is
still the correct one, but if you can show them that exploring
alternatives will cost them very little, and that you're in it for the
long term, I can't see that they'd do anything but rejoice.


From kalin at el.net  Tue Apr 17 05:55:10 2007
From: kalin at el.net (kalin mintchev)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 23:55:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_POLICY
In-Reply-To: <60994.68.165.89.71.1176781015.squirrel@mail.el.net>
References: <60994.68.165.89.71.1176781015.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <61030.68.165.89.71.1176782110.squirrel@mail.el.net>


nevermind...   sorry...  figured it out...   thanks...


> hi all...
>
> i'm really tired of clients batching over the subscription confirmation:
> "but why?", "nobody will do it and we goanna lose people?", "it's to
> difficult", "can we do it without it?!", "our list is special..", etc,
> etc...
>
> so i did change the settings in Defaults.py but it's still asking for
> confirmation...  what am i doing wrong?
>
> in the mm_cfg.py it says:
>
> from Defaults import *
>
> so that should take care of it if i change it in Defaults.py?!?
>
> relevant section from Defaults.py:
>
> #
>
> Yes = yes = On = on = True
> No = no = Off = off = False
>
> # SUBSCRIBE POLICY
> # 0 - open list (only when ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE is set to 1) **
> # 1 - confirmation required for subscribes
> # 2 - admin approval required for subscribes
> # 3 - both confirmation and admin approval required
> #
> # ** please do not choose option 0 if you are not allowing open
> # subscribes (next variable)
> ### DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_POLICY = 1
> DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_POLICY = 0
>
> # Does this site allow completely unchecked subscriptions?
> #### ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE = No
> ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE = 1  ### => i tried Yes, True, yes
>
> .... then restart the runners ......
>
> how, if at all, can i do this per list and not for the whole site?!
>
>
> thanks....
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/kalin%40el.net
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>



From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Apr 17 06:36:43 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 23:36:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Support for Cpanel users?
In-Reply-To: <000801c780a2$566ade10$650aa8c0@office>
References: <000801c780a2$566ade10$650aa8c0@office>
Message-ID: <p06240503c249fe968742@[10.0.1.199]>

At 11:41 PM -0400 4/16/07, Michael Kabot wrote:

>  It might be a thought to create a FAQ on how to upgrade Cpanel/Plesk to the
>  latest version of Mailman and keep it up to date.  I'm not familiar with
>  Cpanel.....

CPanel has made source-code level changes to the version of Mailman 
they ship, so no version of Mailman you install from our sources will 
include that changed functionality.  I think that this solution is a 
non-starter for CPanel.


For Plesk, they use an ancient version of Python, and an ancient 
version of all the Python libraries, but if you know what you're 
doing and you hold your mouth right while doing the correct dance 
while waving a dead chicken, you can jury-rig things so that you can 
actually replace the version of Mailman that is installed without 
disturbing Plesk too much.

However, the moment you do this, you wipe out any possibility of ever 
getting any kind of support on anything else related to Plesk -- your 
hosting provider isn't going to touch the machine unless it's their 
official plain-jane installed version, and the Plesk folks aren't 
even going to talk to you at all.

So, this probably isn't a good option for use with Plesk, either.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From mkabot at soarol.com  Tue Apr 17 07:15:52 2007
From: mkabot at soarol.com (Michael Kabot)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 01:15:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Support for Cpanel users?
In-Reply-To: <p06240503c249fe968742@[10.0.1.199]>
Message-ID: <000001c780af$78eb7f00$650aa8c0@office>


| For Plesk, they use an ancient version of Python, and an ancient 
| version of all the Python libraries, but if you know what you're 
| doing and you hold your mouth right while doing the correct dance 
| while waving a dead chicken, you can jury-rig things so that you can 
| actually replace the version of Mailman that is installed without 
| disturbing Plesk too much.
| 
| However, the moment you do this, you wipe out any possibility of ever 
| getting any kind of support on anything else related to Plesk -- your 
| hosting provider isn't going to touch the machine unless it's their 
| official plain-jane installed version, and the Plesk folks aren't 
| even going to talk to you at all.
| 
| So, this probably isn't a good option for use with Plesk, either.

The latest release of Plesk (8.1) from Feb 07 is only 1.1 revs out on python
and 0.4 revs out for mailman.  That's not too bad for commercial software.

As for support... I've found your hosting provider and Plesk won't really
give you the level of support you need anyhow if you need to be on the
latest release or tweak something in the config.  That's why these forums
exist !  Also, if you have the ability to change versions - usually it means
your are in a virtual or dedicated server which has very little technical
support anyhow.

I'll have to go back and pull out my notes on how I got Plesk, Mailman, &
Qmail to work together.  I know out of the box that unlike Cpanel/Mailman,
Plesk/Mailman is limited to a single namespace for list names across virtual
domains.  
  
In Service,
 
Michael Kabot
President - SOAR
  Scouting Online
    Affordable & Reliable
mkabot at soarol.com
585-388-0211

www.soarol.com 
 
 


| -----Original Message-----
| From: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad at shub-internet.org] 
| Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 12:37 AM
| To: mkabot at soarol.com; 'JB at comcast'; mailman-users at python.org
| Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Support for Cpanel users?
| 
| 
| At 11:41 PM -0400 4/16/07, Michael Kabot wrote:
| 
| >  It might be a thought to create a FAQ on how to upgrade 
| Cpanel/Plesk 
| > to the  latest version of Mailman and keep it up to date.  I'm not 
| > familiar with  Cpanel.....
| 
| CPanel has made source-code level changes to the version of Mailman 
| they ship, so no version of Mailman you install from our sources will 
| include that changed functionality.  I think that this solution is a 
| non-starter for CPanel.
| 
| 
| For Plesk, they use an ancient version of Python, and an ancient 
| version of all the Python libraries, but if you know what you're 
| doing and you hold your mouth right while doing the correct dance 
| while waving a dead chicken, you can jury-rig things so that you can 
| actually replace the version of Mailman that is installed without 
| disturbing Plesk too much.
| 
| However, the moment you do this, you wipe out any possibility of ever 
| getting any kind of support on anything else related to Plesk -- your 
| hosting provider isn't going to touch the machine unless it's their 
| official plain-jane installed version, and the Plesk folks aren't 
| even going to talk to you at all.
| 
| So, this probably isn't a good option for use with Plesk, either.
| 
| -- 
| Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author 
| LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu> Slides from 
| Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>
| 


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 17 07:50:44 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 22:50:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] flowed.text
In-Reply-To: <00a601c78095$5358a7f0$64010a0a@Jojo>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704162250440046f438ce9a@msapiro>

Jojo Almario wrote:

>I had found a fix for inserted line breaks in Mailman on source fourge
>(<https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1495122&group_id=103&atid=100103> and one of Mark Sapiro's posts),
>but I don't have any idea how to apply it?  I am not the admin for the
>mailman server, but I do have an account on that server and I can do some
>command line.  Has anyone applied the patch that can lend some guidance.


You may or may not have sufficient access to apply the patch, but even
if you do, it would not be appropriate for you to do so without the
knowledge and consent of whoever administers Mailman on the server.

The procedure is

1) download the flowed.patch.txt file from the above sourceforge page.
2) cd to Mailman's Mailman/Handlers/ directory
3) give the command

  patch -b < /path/to/flowed.patch.txt

This will apply the patch to Decorate.py and Scrubber.py and create
backup files Decorate.py.orig and Scrubber.py.orig.

4) give the command

  /path/to/mailmans/bin/mailmanctl restart

At step 3) you need to be able to understand the output from the patch
command sufficiently to know whether or not the application of the
patch succeeded.

I strongly suggest that you need to get the server's Mailman
administrator to do this for you.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 17 07:55:09 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 22:55:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_POLICY
In-Reply-To: <61030.68.165.89.71.1176782110.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704162255090875aa04c8d4@msapiro>

kalin mintchev wrote:

>> in the mm_cfg.py it says:
>>
>> from Defaults import *
>>
>> so that should take care of it if i change it in Defaults.py?!?


Do not ever under any circumstances change Defaults.py as explained at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.021.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From calvin at siryn.co.za  Tue Apr 17 09:18:25 2007
From: calvin at siryn.co.za (Calvin Muller)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 09:18:25 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman post mail to list error
Message-ID: <003a01c780c0$999b0ca0$ccd125e0$@co.za>

I'm trying to use Mailman on an Ubuntu 6.10 system with Postfix but when I
send mails it gets sent to the shunt folder, and if I try run the unshunt
command I get the following error in the /var/log/mailman/error

 

Apr 15 00:42:40 2007 (21596) send_digests() failed: us-ascii

Apr 15 00:42:41 2007 (21593) uncaught archiver exception at filepos: 0

Apr 15 00:42:41 2007 (21593) Uncaught runner exception: us-ascii

Apr 15 00:42:41 2007 (21593) Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop

    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile

    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose

    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)

  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 214, in
ArchiveMail

    h.processUnixMailbox(f)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 564, in
processUni
xMailbox

    m = mbox.next()

  File "mailbox.py", line 35, in next

    return self.factory(_Subfile(self.fp, start, stop))

  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 89, in scrubber

    return mailbox.scrub(msg)

  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 109, in scrub

    return self._scrubber(self._mlist, msg)

  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 397, in process

    replace_payload_by_text(msg, sep.join(text), charset)

  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 175, in
replace_pay
load_by_text

    msg.set_payload(text, charset)

  File "email/Message.py", line 218, in set_payload

  File "email/Message.py", line 242, in set_charset

TypeError: us-ascii

 

Apr 15 00:42:41 2007 (21593) SHUNTING:
1176590559.6214781+80fc2b5dadb33ed764461f
650fc9e353c4990233


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Apr 17 09:57:01 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 02:57:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Support for Cpanel users?
In-Reply-To: <000001c780af$78eb7f00$650aa8c0@office>
References: <000001c780af$78eb7f00$650aa8c0@office>
Message-ID: <p06240500c24a2dfaa28f@[10.0.1.199]>

At 1:15 AM -0400 4/17/07, Michael Kabot wrote:

>  I'll have to go back and pull out my notes on how I got Plesk, Mailman, &
>  Qmail to work together.  I know out of the box that unlike Cpanel/Mailman,
>  Plesk/Mailman is limited to a single namespace for list names across virtual
>  domains.

So far as I know, Plesk doesn't make any source-code level 
modifications to the Python and Mailman code that they ship as part 
of their product.  They just tend to be horribly, horribly 
out-of-date, and it's very difficult to bring things up-to-date and 
still keep them working properly.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From dennis at e-aa.org  Tue Apr 17 14:57:03 2007
From: dennis at e-aa.org (Dennis Morgan)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 07:57:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] customizing list info pages
Message-ID: <4624C41F.4090809@e-aa.org>

Not only do you know a lot more about mail than I - you type a lot 
faster! :-) Our replies crossed in the mail.

Not having to hack code is good for me. Our server is selinux Core 4 
with Plesk and resists changing. (Relating to another thread - I 
personally think control panels cause more problems than they solve).

Changing the HTML works for me, and I thank you greatly for your time 
and consideration!

Dennis

Mark Sapiro wrote:
 > Dennis Morgan wrote:<snip away of Dennis>
 >
 > After I worked so hard to give you a way that doesn't involve hacking
 > the code, you say you don't mind hacking the code :-).
 >
 >
 >   
 >> And then add a line somewhere in the editable section of the HTML (The
 >> part that can be reached via the admin pages)?
 >>     
 >
 >
 > You can't simply comment out the "innertext =" line above because then
 > innertext is undefined and it is still referenced.


 > snip

From vizion at vizion.occoxmail.com  Tue Apr 17 16:05:11 2007
From: vizion at vizion.occoxmail.com (Vizion)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 7:05:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creation of virtual-mailman.db
Message-ID: <20070417140512.EYSN12099.dukecmmtao03.coxmail.com@dukecmmtao03>

I am missing something in facilitating the creation of virtual-mailman.db.

I get the failure line in maillog
(Freebsd 6.1 
postfix-2.4.0,1
mailman-2.1.9_1)

postfix/master[687] fatal: open database /usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman.db: No such file or directory

I have gone through the docs but am obviously missing something.There is no virtual-mailman.db or virtual-mailman in /usr/local/mailman/data. aliases and aliases.db are present and of owner:group mailman.


Could anyone please let me know:
1. How virtual-mailman.db is created and what confifuration parameters affect its creation.
2. Ideally some examples from relevant config files would be ideal.

I do seem to ne struggling with getting mailman running properly!!!

Thanks in advance

David



From matt.l.zimmerman at gmail.com  Tue Apr 17 16:58:15 2007
From: matt.l.zimmerman at gmail.com (Matt Zimmerman)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 10:58:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Last Email
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070415152948064024cb7e70@msapiro>
References: <50852730704151512r4dbd8073xc7332656cae7ee40@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC176020070415152948064024cb7e70@msapiro>
Message-ID: <50852730704170758k1aa99ba2qc0911cfbaaee4eab@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the script.

The only error I am getting is:

AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'py'

Does this make any sense?

On 4/15/07, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> >
> >I have about 1200 lists in mailman 2.1.8. I looking to try and clean
> these
> >lists up. Has anybody written any scripts to look through the archives
> and
> >find out when the last email was sent to each list.
>
> Save the data between the dashed lines as bin/last_post_date.py and run
>
> bin/withlist -a -r last_post_date
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> import time
>
> def last_post_date(mlist):
>     print 'list - %s: last post - %s' % (mlist.real_name,
>                         time.ctime(mlist.last_post_time))
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

From dkall at pasco.k12.fl.us  Tue Apr 17 17:09:37 2007
From: dkall at pasco.k12.fl.us (Dave Kall)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 11:09:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription Help
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007041116551500627961e46d@Notebook>
References: <PC17602007041116551500627961e46d@Notebook>
Message-ID: <6EF4235D-1589-4E5B-9B47-E3E558F3DFA2@pasco.k12.fl.us>

Ok,
Thanks for this I now have this working.

I've looked through the archives for url and wget to discover my next  
and last issue and can't find anything.

I need to set the mod bit for new members. I may be able to hack the  
config file and have it always set the mod bit on for new list  
members but haven't found any good references to that file and what's  
where.

I would rather just send the  info in a url and be done with it and  
not change any of the file settings so when I update mailman I don't  
have to redo anything.


So this is where I'm at: I tried

http://mydomain.org/mailman/admin/tips/members? 
shogie at earthlink.net_mod=on&setmemberopts_btn&adminpw=mypassword

Is it possible to set this from a URL?  I think it must be but I'm  
missing something. I would love to be able to set it when I make the  
add record request but don't know if that is possible.

Thanks for the help. The last hint really saved me a lot of time.

Dave Kall



On Apr 11, 2007, at 7:55 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Dave Kall wrote:
>>
>> The address I have is like:
>>
>> http://my.domain.org/mailman/admin/scoop/members/add?
>> subscribe_or_invite=0&send_welcome_msg_to_this_batch=0&send_notificat 
>> ion
>> s_to_list_owner=0&subscribees=&subscribees_upload=&invitation=&setmem 
>> ber
>> opts_btn=Submit Your Changes
>
>
> You have extra stuff you don't need, but the problem is that you're
> missing the list admin password.
>
> See
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-December/ 
> 041214.html>
> and possibly other posts in that thread or returned by
> <http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amail.python.org+inurl% 
> 3Amailman+wget>.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From martyn at drake.org.uk  Tue Apr 17 17:10:01 2007
From: martyn at drake.org.uk (Martyn Drake)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:10:01 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Managing lists as a non-root/Mailman user
Message-ID: <6e12ee760704170810j24c5181eu8e8bebdc845782a8@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

For the purposes of automation, I need to be able to run the various
management scripts neither as root or Mailman (primarily because the
script will be run by a network account not local to the Mailman
machine).  What would be the easiest way of doing this?  Create a
network group called Mailman and add the user to that?

Regards,

Martyn
-- 
Email  : martyn at drake.org.uk

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Tue Apr 17 17:18:34 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 08:18:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription Help
In-Reply-To: <6EF4235D-1589-4E5B-9B47-E3E558F3DFA2@pasco.k12.fl.us>
References: <PC17602007041116551500627961e46d@Notebook>
	<6EF4235D-1589-4E5B-9B47-E3E558F3DFA2@pasco.k12.fl.us>
Message-ID: <200704171518.l3HFHgwV009286@unreal.eroded.org>

Dave Kall wrote:
>Ok,
>Thanks for this I now have this working.
>
>I've looked through the archives for url and wget to discover my next
>and last issue and can't find anything.
>
>I need to set the mod bit for new members. I may be able to hack the
>config file and have it always set the mod bit on for new list
>members but haven't found any good references to that file and what's
>where.
>
>I would rather just send the  info in a url and be done with it and
>not change any of the file settings so when I update mailman I don't
>have to redo anything.
>
>
>So this is where I'm at: I tried
>
>http://mydomain.org/mailman/admin/tips/members?
>shogie at earthlink.net_mod=on&setmemberopts_btn&adminpw=mypassword
>
>Is it possible to set this from a URL?  I think it must be but I'm
>missing something. I would love to be able to set it when I make the
>add record request but don't know if that is possible.
>
>Thanks for the help. The last hint really saved me a lot of time.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

You can set a list default to have all new members on moderated 
status. Have you tried setting that for the list and then adding a 
member via this method?

It's worth a try.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 17 17:44:59 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 08:44:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Last Email
In-Reply-To: <50852730704170758k1aa99ba2qc0911cfbaaee4eab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704170844590328836cd163@msapiro>

Matt Zimmerman wrote:
>
>The only error I am getting is:
>
>AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'py'
>
>Does this make any sense?


It means you are running

 bin/withlist -a -r last_post_date.py

instead of

 bin/withlist -a -r last_post_date


The name of the file is last_post_date.py, but module/callable name in
the withlist command doesn't have the .py extension.


>On 4/15/07, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

>> Save the data between the dashed lines as bin/last_post_date.py and run
>>
>> bin/withlist -a -r last_post_date

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 17 18:01:09 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 09:01:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creation of virtual-mailman.db
In-Reply-To: <20070417140512.EYSN12099.dukecmmtao03.coxmail.com@dukecmmtao03>
Message-ID: <PC17602007041709010909379b174772@msapiro>

Vizion wrote:

>I am missing something in facilitating the creation of virtual-mailman.db.
<snip>
>I have gone through the docs but am obviously missing something.There is no virtual-mailman.db or virtual-mailman in /usr/local/mailman/data. aliases and aliases.db are present and of owner:group mailman.


What I think you are missing is an assignment to
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS in mm_cfg.py.


>Could anyone please let me know:
>1. How virtual-mailman.db is created and what confifuration parameters affect its creation.


virtual-mailman is created/maintained based on lists which are in one
of the domains listed in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS, and then
POSTFIX_MAP_CMD (default /usr/sbin/postmap) is run to update
virtual-mailman.db.

Once you get POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS set, if you actually have
lists in one of those domains, you can run bin/genaliases to rebuild
Mailman's data/aliases* and data/virtual-mailman* files.


>2. Ideally some examples from relevant config files would be ideal.


<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html> may help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From vizion at vizion.occoxmail.com  Tue Apr 17 18:36:30 2007
From: vizion at vizion.occoxmail.com (Vizion)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 9:36:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creation of virtual-mailman.db
Message-ID: <20070417163630.RCQV12099.dukecmmtao03.coxmail.com@dukecmmtao03>


> 
> From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
> Date: 2007/04/17 Tue AM 09:01:09 PDT
> To: Vizion <vizion at vizion.occoxmail.com>, 
> 	<mailman-users at python.org>
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] creation of virtual-mailman.db
> 
> Vizion wrote:
> 
> >I am missing something in facilitating the creation of virtual-mailman.db.
> <snip>
> >I have gone through the docs but am obviously missing something.There is no virtual-mailman.db or virtual-mailman in /usr/local/mailman/data. aliases and aliases.db are present and of owner:group mailman.
> 
> 
> What I think you are missing is an assignment to
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS in mm_cfg.py.

in mm_cfg.py I have:
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['atf4.com',
'vizion2000.net',
'methulselaproject.org',
'methuselaproject.com',
'ispyforum.com',
'workplacemassage.co.uk',
]
MTA ='Postfix'

> 
> 
> >Could anyone please let me know:
> >1. How virtual-mailman.db is created and what confifuration parameters affect its creation.
> 
> 
> virtual-mailman is created/maintained based on lists which are in one
> of the domains listed in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS, and then
> POSTFIX_MAP_CMD (default /usr/sbin/postmap) is run to update
> virtual-mailman.db.
> 
> Once you get POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS set, if you actually have
> lists in one of those domains, you can run bin/genaliases to rebuild
> Mailman's data/aliases* and data/virtual-mailman* files.
> 
> 
> >2. Ideally some examples from relevant config files would be ideal.
> 
> 
> <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html> may help.
> 
from what you say it seems that maybe I need to create lists???

IAm I on the right track?

David


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 17 18:58:59 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 09:58:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription Help
In-Reply-To: <6EF4235D-1589-4E5B-9B47-E3E558F3DFA2@pasco.k12.fl.us>
Message-ID: <PC17602007041709585907509dbcdd29@msapiro>

Dave Kall wrote:
>
>I need to set the mod bit for new members. I may be able to hack the  
>config file and have it always set the mod bit on for new list  
>members but haven't found any good references to that file and what's  
>where.


As Dragon replied, the normal way to do this is to set Privacy
options...->Sender filters->default_member_moderation to Yes.

Unfortunately there is no good Mailman list admin reference. The two
references are linked from <http://www.list.org/admins.html>, but
Chris Kolar's manual is for Mailman 2.0 and Terri Oda's manual is
incomplete.


>I would rather just send the  info in a url and be done with it and  
>not change any of the file settings so when I update mailman I don't  
>have to redo anything.
>
>
>So this is where I'm at: I tried
>
>http://mydomain.org/mailman/admin/tips/members? 
>shogie at earthlink.net_mod=on&setmemberopts_btn&adminpw=mypassword
>
>Is it possible to set this from a URL?  I think it must be but I'm  
>missing something. I would love to be able to set it when I make the  
>add record request but don't know if that is possible.


Yes, it's possible, but it's tricky. I tried it myself and wasn't able
to get it right. You need to look at the actual code in
Mailman/Cgi/admin.py to see what cgi data are required. In addition to
what you have, you definitely need the hidden 'user' field
(user=shogie at earthlink.net in your example above). You also need to
provide the realname and all the other options that are checked or
they will be cleared.

It's much easier to just set default_member_moderation to Yes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 17 20:00:49 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 11:00:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creation of virtual-mailman.db
In-Reply-To: <20070417163630.RCQV12099.dukecmmtao03.coxmail.com@dukecmmtao03>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704171100490515a2d9b094@msapiro>

Vizion wrote:
>
>in mm_cfg.py I have:
>POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['atf4.com',
>'vizion2000.net',
>'methulselaproject.org',
>'methuselaproject.com',
>'ispyforum.com',
>'workplacemassage.co.uk',
>]
>MTA ='Postfix'


Good.


>from what you say it seems that maybe I need to create lists???
>
>IAm I on the right track?


Yes. Until you create at least one list in one of those domains, there
will be no virtual-mailman. As soon as you create such a list, Mailman
will create virtual-mailman and run postmap.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 17 20:08:03 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 11:08:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman post mail to list error
In-Reply-To: <003a01c780c0$999b0ca0$ccd125e0$@co.za>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704171108030812a2d9b18f@msapiro>

Calvin Muller wrote:

>I'm trying to use Mailman on an Ubuntu 6.10 system with Postfix but when I
>send mails it gets sent to the shunt folder, and if I try run the unshunt
>command I get the following error in the /var/log/mailman/error
>
> 
>
>Apr 15 00:42:40 2007 (21596) send_digests() failed: us-ascii
<snip>


I replied to your prior post of this issue yesterday. My reply is at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-April/056604.html>.

If you didn't see that reply, please look at it. If you did see it and
don't understand it, please ask specific questions about the
information in that reply.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Tue Apr 17 20:18:51 2007
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 13:18:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_POLICY
In-Reply-To: <60994.68.165.89.71.1176781015.squirrel@mail.el.net>
References: <60994.68.165.89.71.1176781015.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <E56B2818-D202-418D-8647-716B7E31EDCC@goldmark.org>

On Apr 16, 2007, at 10:36 PM, kalin mintchev wrote:

> i'm really tired of clients batching over the subscription  
> confirmation:
> "but why?", "nobody will do it and we goanna lose people?", "it's to
> difficult", "can we do it without it?!", "our list is special..", etc,
> etc...

I agree that for many lists and many users the confirmation step is a  
point where legitimate subscription attempts fail.  But ...

List bombing (maliciously subscribing people to lots of lists) does  
happen.  (I have been a victim of it several times).  What I've seen  
is that known anti-spammers get their addresses added  to lists that  
don't do proper confirmation.   Maybe not this year, or maybe not the  
next year, but it is almost certain that you will end up getting  
yourself blacklisted.

Anyway, I see from a later post of yours that you found out how to do  
the configuration you want.  Please consider that step carefully.

Also look at enabling VERP_CONFIRMATIONS, which will result in having  
confirmation requests go out with a more helpful Subject header.  You  
need to configure your MTA appropriately for VERP (basically handling  
"username+whatever" local parts correctly).

-j

-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Apr 17 20:47:29 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 13:47:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_POLICY
In-Reply-To: <E56B2818-D202-418D-8647-716B7E31EDCC@goldmark.org>
References: <60994.68.165.89.71.1176781015.squirrel@mail.el.net>
	<E56B2818-D202-418D-8647-716B7E31EDCC@goldmark.org>
Message-ID: <p06240505c24ac5a92fcc@[10.0.1.199]>

At 1:18 PM -0500 4/17/07, Jeffrey Goldberg replied to Kalin Mintchev:

>  List bombing (maliciously subscribing people to lots of lists) does
>  happen.  (I have been a victim of it several times).  What I've seen
>  is that known anti-spammers get their addresses added  to lists that
>  don't do proper confirmation.   Maybe not this year, or maybe not the
>  next year, but it is almost certain that you will end up getting
>  yourself blacklisted.

Especially since there are some very aggressive anti-spammers lurking 
about on various mailing lists like this, and they may well add you 
to a blacklist just because you say that you're running a mailing 
list that doesn't do confirmation.  And it will be virtually 
impossible for you to get yourself removed from many blacklists like 
that.

>  Anyway, I see from a later post of yours that you found out how to do
>  the configuration you want.  Please consider that step carefully.

Inded, Kalin -- be very, very careful.

I'm sorely tempted to submit you to some blacklists myself, and I 
know that I'm not the most violently aggressive anti-spammer around.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Apr 17 20:54:23 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 13:54:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Managing lists as a non-root/Mailman user
In-Reply-To: <6e12ee760704170810j24c5181eu8e8bebdc845782a8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6e12ee760704170810j24c5181eu8e8bebdc845782a8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240506c24ac6c872ca@[10.0.1.199]>

At 4:10 PM +0100 4/17/07, Martyn Drake wrote:

>  For the purposes of automation, I need to be able to run the various
>  management scripts neither as root or Mailman (primarily because the
>  script will be run by a network account not local to the Mailman
>  machine).  What would be the easiest way of doing this?  Create a
>  network group called Mailman and add the user to that?

In terms of running the command-line scripts, you really have no 
option -- they have to be run as root or the Mailman user, and on the 
local box.  The files that they would be operating on simply don't 
exist anywhere else.

Now, if your Mailman server is operating on files that are mounted 
via NFS, then the command-line scripts would need to be executed as 
root or the Mailman user on the remote system where the files are 
visible, but keep in mind that NFS causes a lot of problems for file 
locking which would typically be required for proper use of the 
administration tools, especially anything that would be opening and 
working with Python "pickle" files for internal list configuration, 
list membership, messages that are currently being processed by 
Mailman, etc....


In terms of scripting the web-based GUI administration of the list, 
see FAQ 3.53.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From calvin at siryn.co.za  Tue Apr 17 23:09:00 2007
From: calvin at siryn.co.za (Calvin Muller)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 23:09:00 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman post mail to list error
Message-ID: <000401c78134$9f5f64a0$de1e2de0$@co.za>

When using Ubuntu and apt-get, it seems like there is no such directory as a
pytonlib. I don't know if it's called something else, but how do I install
the email module for python, your help is greatly appreciated.

 

 

From: Calvin Muller [mailto:calvin at siryn.co.za] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 9:18 AM
To: 'mailman-users at python.org'
Subject: mailman post mail to list error

 

I'm trying to use Mailman on an Ubuntu 6.10 system with Postfix but when I
send mails it gets sent to the shunt folder, and if I try run the unshunt
command I get the following error in the /var/log/mailman/error

 

Apr 15 00:42:40 2007 (21596) send_digests() failed: us-ascii

Apr 15 00:42:41 2007 (21593) uncaught archiver exception at filepos: 0

Apr 15 00:42:41 2007 (21593) Uncaught runner exception: us-ascii

Apr 15 00:42:41 2007 (21593) Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop

    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile

    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose

    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)

  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 214, in
ArchiveMail

    h.processUnixMailbox(f)

  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 564, in
processUni
xMailbox

    m = mbox.next()

  File "mailbox.py", line 35, in next

    return self.factory(_Subfile(self.fp, start, stop))

  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 89, in scrubber

    return mailbox.scrub(msg)

  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 109, in scrub

    return self._scrubber(self._mlist, msg)

  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 397, in process

    replace_payload_by_text(msg, sep.join(text), charset)

  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 175, in
replace_pay
load_by_text

    msg.set_payload(text, charset)

  File "email/Message.py", line 218, in set_payload

  File "email/Message.py", line 242, in set_charset

TypeError: us-ascii

 

Apr 15 00:42:41 2007 (21593) SHUNTING:
1176590559.6214781+80fc2b5dadb33ed764461f
650fc9e353c4990233


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 18 00:45:59 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 15:45:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman post mail to list error
In-Reply-To: <000401c78134$9f5f64a0$de1e2de0$@co.za>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704171545590687acc5a8ea@msapiro>

Calvin Muller wrote:

>When using Ubuntu and apt-get, it seems like there is no such directory as a
>pytonlib. I don't know if it's called something else, but how do I install
>the email module for python, your help is greatly appreciated.


I can't help you with Ubuntu/Debian packaging issues per se. You should
really contact Ubuntu/Debian and see if they have a fix/workaround/bug
report for this issue, and if not, report it there.

A normal Mailman installation from source contains a pythonlib/
directory (note pythonlib, not pytonlib). This in turn contains the
email package and possibly japanese and korean codecs packages.

If your package contains none of this, you can try the following:

In your Mailman installation, there are bin/ and cron/ directories. In
each of these there is a file paths.py. The two paths.py files should
be the same. Further, each file should contain near the beginning a
line

prefix = '/path/to/mailman'

It should also contain near the middle

sys.path.insert(0, os.path.join(prefix, 'pythonlib'))

If it contains this line, that's good. If not, add it to both files
following the line

sys.path.insert(0, prefix)

Then if there is no pythonlib directory in the 'prefix' directory,
create it with group = Mailman's group and mode 2775. Then create the
directory pythonlib/email, also with group = Mailman's group and mode
2775.

Then (assuming Mailman 2.1.9) go to
<http://mailman.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/mailman/tags/Release_2_1_9/misc/email-2.5.8.tar.gz?view=log>
and click "Links to HEAD:(download)" to download the package.

If your Mailman isn't 2.1.9, navigate to 'tags' in the above URL, find
your release and get its email package.

Then gunzip and extract the package and copy all the *.py files from
the email-2.5.8/email directory you extracted to the pythonlib/email
directory you created above.

Finally, restart mailman with

bin/mailmanctl restart

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From puttwill at gmail.com  Wed Apr 18 01:45:36 2007
From: puttwill at gmail.com (Bill Putt)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 19:45:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual doman set up with ensimpro x and duplicate
	msgs
Message-ID: <657451c80704171645s6e1e0e2ja5ac654ff7101b10@mail.gmail.com>

hey all,
     not by choice, our temporary server has ensimpro. i'm trying to get
mailman installed so that we can have our mailing list back up. i know ensim
pro won't let me set up the aliases properly in the
/virtserverpath/etc/aliases, so i put the aliases in the main /etc/aliases.
the mail list works, but obviously the email is "
listname at domainofmainserver.com" rather then "listname at virtdoman.com"

i'd like to solve that, but that's not my main issue. my MAIN issue is users
are getting 2 to 4 duplicate msgs every time some one posts. this happens
weather it is a new post or a reply to a post, so it's not a problem that is
solved by checking ...

Filter out duplicate messages to list members

which has been checked from the start. the duplicates arrive any where from
1 to 5 minutes after the 1st msg arrives. some are the full msg, some are
completely blank, and some say...

<<< No Message Collected >>>

i installed mailman 2.1.8 on fedora using the rpm package manager. any idea
why i'm getting these duplicate msgs? i made sure i only have one qrunner
running and only have the mailman aliases in one of the etc/aliases.

as for the virt doman, i tried putting the emails in the form..

"listname-command at virtdomain.com listname-command"

into virtuseraliases and ran the make hash into /etc/mail/virtuseraliases.db
and restarted sendmail, but no luck. any ideas how to get the virtdomain to
work with ensimpro? thanks.
-- 
Bill Putt

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 18 02:51:20 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 17:51:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual doman set up with ensimpro x and
	duplicatemsgs
In-Reply-To: <657451c80704171645s6e1e0e2ja5ac654ff7101b10@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704171751200421a741b019@msapiro>

Bill Putt wrote:
>
>i'd like to solve that, but that's not my main issue. my MAIN issue is users
>are getting 2 to 4 duplicate msgs every time some one posts. this happens
>weather it is a new post or a reply to a post, so it's not a problem that is
>solved by checking ...
>
>Filter out duplicate messages to list members


That doesn't do much anyway. All it does is tell Mailman to not send to
a member whose address is in a To:, Cc:, Resent-To: or Resent-Cc:
header of the message.


>which has been checked from the start. the duplicates arrive any where from
>1 to 5 minutes after the 1st msg arrives. some are the full msg, some are
>completely blank, and some say...
>
><<< No Message Collected >>>



Mailman isn't creating duplicates per se. Either the incoming MTA is
delivering the same message to Mailman more than once, or there is
some smtp glitch between Mailman and the outgoing MTA causing Mailman
to retry sending a message which has been accepted by the MTA, or the
problem doesn't involve Mailman at all.

Check Mailman's smtp and smtp-failure logs and the MTA logs and the
Received headers in the duplicated messages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 18 03:54:05 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 18:54:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Managing lists as a non-root/Mailman user
In-Reply-To: <p06240506c24ac6c872ca@[10.0.1.199]>
Message-ID: <PC17602007041718540507969cad6f81@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>In terms of running the command-line scripts, you really have no 
>option -- they have to be run as root or the Mailman user,

Or a user in Mailman's group

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Apr 18 08:41:27 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 01:41:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Managing lists as a non-root/Mailman user
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007041718540507969cad6f81@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007041718540507969cad6f81@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240508c24b6d9e8d31@[10.0.1.199]>

At 6:54 PM -0700 4/17/07, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>>  In terms of running the command-line scripts, you really have no
>>  option -- they have to be run as root or the Mailman user,
>
>  Or a user in Mailman's group

If you're talking about a remote server, there is no guarantee that 
the same numeric group id number would be used for the same group on 
different systems, so even though a given user would appear to be in 
the correct group, that might still not work.

You'd have to ensure that the numeric group ids were identical on all 
possible places where these files might be accessed or modified -- 
otherwise you risk allowing others to access information that they 
shouldn't be able to see, and you risk legitimate access being 
inappropriately denied.

This is not a given in NFS server environments.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From david at vizion2000.net  Wed Apr 18 09:55:47 2007
From: david at vizion2000.net (David Southwell)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 00:55:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Format for multiple add_virtualhost entries
Message-ID: <200704180055.47488.david@vizion2000.net>

What is the correct format for multiple add_virtualhost entries in mm_cfg.py
Single is shown as:

add_virtualhost('virtualURL', 'virtualmailserver')

Could someone please give an example for multiples where more than one entry 
line is required (prefer one url and mailserver pair per line.

Thanks in advance



david

From srb at umich.edu  Wed Apr 18 12:16:31 2007
From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 06:16:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Managing lists as a non-root/Mailman user
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007041718540507969cad6f81@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007041718540507969cad6f81@msapiro>
Message-ID: <36A396A6124E0E3C8CB25965@srb.local>

--On April 17, 2007 6:54:05 PM -0700 Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Or a user in Mailman's group

To which I reply:

And this is the answer to the originally-posted question; I do all my 
Mailman management tasks as "myself", by virtue of the fact that I'm in the 
mailman group.

-- 
Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910

From srb at umich.edu  Wed Apr 18 12:19:00 2007
From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 06:19:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Managing lists as a non-root/Mailman user
In-Reply-To: <p06240508c24b6d9e8d31@[10.0.1.199]>
References: <PC17602007041718540507969cad6f81@msapiro>
	<p06240508c24b6d9e8d31@[10.0.1.199]>
Message-ID: <9A8AED0672A84D105A19F5B5@srb.local>

--On April 18, 2007 1:41:27 AM -0500 Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> 
wrote:

> If you're talking about a remote server, there is no guarantee that
> the same numeric group id number would be used for the same group on
> different systems, so even though a given user would appear to be in
> the correct group, that might still not work.
>
> You'd have to ensure that the numeric group ids were identical on all
> possible places where these files might be accessed or modified --
> otherwise you risk allowing others to access information that they
> shouldn't be able to see, and you risk legitimate access being
> inappropriately denied.
>
> This is not a given in NFS server environments.

To which I reply:

It's a given in well-managed NFS environments.

-- 
Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910

From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Wed Apr 18 15:40:17 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:40:17 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman post mail to list error
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Mark Sapiro <msapiro@value.net>'
	dated: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 15:45:59 -0700
Message-ID: <200704181340.l3IDeHJB028417@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

Calvin Muller wrote:

>>When using Ubuntu and apt-get, it seems like there is no such directory as a
>>pytonlib. I don't know if it's called something else, but how do I install
>>the email module for python, your help is greatly appreciated.

and Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> replied, in part:

>I can't help you with Ubuntu/Debian packaging issues per se. You should
>really contact Ubuntu/Debian and see if they have a fix/workaround/bug
>report for this issue, and if not, report it there.
>
>A normal Mailman installation from source contains a pythonlib/
>directory (note pythonlib, not pytonlib). This in turn contains the
>email package and possibly japanese and korean codecs packages.

There was a thread about pythonlib a few months ago, and I did some
research when I was building a Mailman 2.1.9 package for Ubuntu.
Here are dates and Subject lines for two threads:

     27 Sep 2006   Re: [Mailman-Users] Mail Man Help
     10 Jan 2007   Re: [Mailman-Users] us-ascii problem with new install in Ubuntu (SOLVED)

Basically, Debian change 242740 was created because at one time there
was a problem (or more than one) with the pythonlib, so the Debian
solution (incorrect) was to delete that library.  In the

     debian/rules

file there is this line:

     rmdir debian/$(package)/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib

When I first attempted the build using the 2.1.5 Debian rules and the
2.1.9 Mailman source, I received an error message stating that this
pythonlib was not empty and thus could not be removed.   I had to
comment this line in the debian/rules file to keep the directory.

Look at the two threads referenced above for more details.

This is one reason why I chose to build a Mailman 2.1.9 package for
Ubuntu from the 2.1.9 SourceForge source, and not rely on the source
that Debian/Ubuntu claims is 2.1.9.  In my case, I did not need
pythonlib, but I had no idea what other changes Debian/Ubuntu had made
to the source.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From martyn at drake.org.uk  Wed Apr 18 16:12:48 2007
From: martyn at drake.org.uk (Martyn Drake)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:12:48 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Managing lists as a non-root/Mailman user
In-Reply-To: <9A8AED0672A84D105A19F5B5@srb.local>
References: <PC17602007041718540507969cad6f81@msapiro>
	<p06240508c24b6d9e8d31@10.0.1.199>
	<9A8AED0672A84D105A19F5B5@srb.local>
Message-ID: <6e12ee760704180712q30cb3ba9q285206b23e739ecc@mail.gmail.com>

On 18/04/07, Steve Burling <srb at umich.edu> wrote:

> It's a given in well-managed NFS environments.

Just to say that it now works; I've added the relevant network
accounts as a member of the mailman group and I can happily do my
administrative work without hindrance.

Thanks everyone.

Regards,

Martyn
-- 
Email  : martyn at drake.org.uk
Blog   : http://www.drake.org.uk
Photos : http://www.flickr.com/photos/mbdrake

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 18 16:40:39 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 07:40:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Format for multiple add_virtualhost entries
In-Reply-To: <200704180055.47488.david@vizion2000.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704180740390140cb344d13@msapiro>

David Southwell wrote:

>What is the correct format for multiple add_virtualhost entries in mm_cfg.py
>Single is shown as:
>
>add_virtualhost('virtualURL', 'virtualmailserver')
>
>Could someone please give an example for multiples where more than one entry 
>line is required (prefer one url and mailserver pair per line.



add_virtualhost('www.one.example.com', 'mail.one.example.com')
add_virtualhost('www.two.example.com', 'mail.two.example.com')
add_virtualhost('www.three.example.com', 'mail.three.example.com')


Note that all add_virtualhost(x, y) does is add an entry to the
VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary with key = x and value = y. For this reason
all the web hosts MUST be unique; if not the second entry with the
same web host will replace the first. It used to be the case that some
code in the archiver inverted this dictionary to look up the web host
corresponding to a mail host and for that reason, the mail hosts
needed to be unique. This is no longer the case in current Mailman,
but it is still a good idea not to have two entries with the same mail
host.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From calvin at siryn.co.za  Wed Apr 18 18:21:24 2007
From: calvin at siryn.co.za (Calvin Muller)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:21:24 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman post mail to list error
In-Reply-To: <200704181340.l3IDeHJB028417@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
References: Mail from 'Mark Sapiro <msapiro@value.net>'	dated: Tue,
	17 Apr 2007 15:45:59 -0700
	<200704181340.l3IDeHJB028417@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <002001c781d5$9cfecd30$d6fc6790$@co.za>

I have followed every one of those posts that state the problem in ubuntu
but there is no fix for it that I can seem to find, If you know how to
correct these issues I would greatly appreciate it.

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+calvin=siryn.co.za at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+calvin=siryn.co.za at python.org] On Behalf Of
Barry Finkel
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 3:40 PM
To: Mailman-Users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman post mail to list error

Calvin Muller wrote:

>>When using Ubuntu and apt-get, it seems like there is no such directory as
a
>>pytonlib. I don't know if it's called something else, but how do I install
>>the email module for python, your help is greatly appreciated.

and Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> replied, in part:

>I can't help you with Ubuntu/Debian packaging issues per se. You should
>really contact Ubuntu/Debian and see if they have a fix/workaround/bug
>report for this issue, and if not, report it there.
>
>A normal Mailman installation from source contains a pythonlib/
>directory (note pythonlib, not pytonlib). This in turn contains the
>email package and possibly japanese and korean codecs packages.

There was a thread about pythonlib a few months ago, and I did some
research when I was building a Mailman 2.1.9 package for Ubuntu.
Here are dates and Subject lines for two threads:

     27 Sep 2006   Re: [Mailman-Users] Mail Man Help
     10 Jan 2007   Re: [Mailman-Users] us-ascii problem with new install in
Ubuntu (SOLVED)

Basically, Debian change 242740 was created because at one time there
was a problem (or more than one) with the pythonlib, so the Debian
solution (incorrect) was to delete that library.  In the

     debian/rules

file there is this line:

     rmdir debian/$(package)/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib

When I first attempted the build using the 2.1.5 Debian rules and the
2.1.9 Mailman source, I received an error message stating that this
pythonlib was not empty and thus could not be removed.   I had to
comment this line in the debian/rules file to keep the directory.

Look at the two threads referenced above for more details.

This is one reason why I chose to build a Mailman 2.1.9 package for
Ubuntu from the 2.1.9 SourceForge source, and not rely on the source
that Debian/Ubuntu claims is 2.1.9.  In my case, I did not need
pythonlib, but I had no idea what other changes Debian/Ubuntu had made
to the source.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/calvin%40siryn.co.za

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Wed Apr 18 21:32:38 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:32:38 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman post mail to list error
In-Reply-To: Mail from '"Calvin Muller" <calvin@siryn.co.za>'
	dated: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:21:24 +0200
Message-ID: <200704181932.l3IJWcji006585@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

Calvin Muller wrote regarding the missing pythonlib directory:

>I have followed every one of those posts that state the problem in ubuntu
>but there is no fix for it that I can seem to find, If you know how to
>correct these issues I would greatly appreciate it.

You can get a copy of pythonlib and install it in the location where
Ubuntu/Debian expect it:

     /var/lib/mailman/pythonlib

I have no idea if there would be any incompatibilities between the
pythonlib directory as produced from a SourceForge Mailman 2.1.9
installation and the rest of Mailman as distributed in the Ubuntu
package.

Here is a directory listing on my production Mailman 2.1.9 machine:

xxxxx# ls -alR /var/lib/mailman/pythonlib
/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib:
total 28
drwxrwsr-x  6 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 .
drwxrwsr-x 10 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 ..
drwxrwsr-x  2 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 email
drwxrwsr-x  6 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 japanese
drwxrwsr-x  5 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 korean
-rw-r--r--  1 root list   22 2007-02-16 09:13 korean.pth
drwxrwsr-x  3 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 lib

/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email:
total 400
drwxrwsr-x 2 root list  4096 2007-03-08 14:12 .
drwxrwsr-x 6 root list  4096 2007-03-08 14:12 ..
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  5866 2006-06-12 22:43 base64MIME.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  5686 2007-02-16 09:12 base64MIME.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 16129 2006-06-12 22:43 Charset.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 13689 2007-02-16 09:12 Charset.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  2263 2006-06-12 22:43 _compat21.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  2727 2007-02-16 09:12 _compat21.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  2116 2006-06-12 22:43 _compat22.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  2650 2007-02-16 09:12 _compat22.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  2533 2006-06-12 22:43 Encoders.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  2672 2007-02-16 09:12 Encoders.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list   595 2006-06-12 22:43 Errors.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  1259 2007-02-16 09:12 Errors.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 14085 2006-06-12 22:43 Generator.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 10708 2007-02-16 09:12 Generator.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 21985 2006-06-12 22:43 Header.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 14196 2007-02-16 09:12 Header.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  1879 2006-07-25 08:10 __init__.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  1854 2007-02-16 09:12 __init__.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list   686 2006-06-12 22:43 Iterators.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list   978 2007-02-16 09:12 Iterators.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 33037 2006-06-12 22:43 Message.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 30300 2007-02-16 09:12 Message.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  2598 2006-06-12 22:43 MIMEAudio.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  2983 2007-02-16 09:12 MIMEAudio.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list   756 2006-06-12 22:43 MIMEBase.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  1094 2007-02-16 09:12 MIMEBase.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  1749 2006-06-12 22:43 MIMEImage.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  2107 2007-02-16 09:12 MIMEImage.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  1244 2006-06-12 22:43 MIMEMessage.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  1438 2007-02-16 09:12 MIMEMessage.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  1329 2006-06-12 22:43 MIMEMultipart.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  1637 2007-02-16 09:12 MIMEMultipart.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list   703 2006-06-12 22:43 MIMENonMultipart.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list   883 2007-02-16 09:12 MIMENonMultipart.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  1841 2006-06-12 22:43 MIMEText.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  1961 2007-02-16 09:12 MIMEText.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 14860 2006-06-12 22:43 _parseaddr.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 13297 2007-02-16 09:12 _parseaddr.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 12804 2006-06-12 22:43 Parser.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  7747 2007-02-16 09:12 Parser.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 10601 2006-06-12 22:43 quopriMIME.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  8854 2007-02-16 09:12 quopriMIME.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 11026 2006-07-25 08:10 Utils.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 10442 2007-02-16 09:12 Utils.pyc

/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib/japanese:
total 128
drwxrwsr-x 6 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 .
drwxrwsr-x 6 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 ..
drwxrwsr-x 2 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 aliases
drwxrwsr-x 2 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 c
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  141 2001-09-24 09:19 euc_jp.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  308 2007-02-16 09:12 euc_jp.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  149 2002-09-30 12:33 __init__.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  262 2007-02-16 09:12 __init__.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  155 2001-09-25 00:34 iso_2022_jp_1.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  329 2007-02-16 09:12 iso_2022_jp_1.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  159 2001-09-25 00:35 iso_2022_jp_ext.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  335 2007-02-16 09:12 iso_2022_jp_ext.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  151 2001-09-25 00:34 iso_2022_jp.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  323 2007-02-16 09:12 iso_2022_jp.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list   73 2000-12-12 14:59 jis_7.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  228 2007-02-16 09:12 jis_7.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 1014 2001-09-26 18:01 jis_x_0201_katakana.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 1830 2007-02-16 09:12 jis_x_0201_katakana.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 1002 2001-09-26 18:01 jis_x_0201_roman.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 1798 2007-02-16 09:12 jis_x_0201_roman.pyc
drwxrwsr-x 2 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 mappings
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list   65 2002-03-01 12:50 ms932.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  224 2007-02-16 09:12 ms932.pyc
drwxrwsr-x 2 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 python
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  147 2001-09-24 10:06 shift_jis.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  317 2007-02-16 09:12 shift_jis.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list   71 2000-12-12 14:59 sjis.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  225 2007-02-16 09:12 sjis.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list   68 2000-12-12 14:59 ujis.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  222 2007-02-16 09:12 ujis.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list   68 2002-09-24 02:02 windows_31j.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  228 2007-02-16 09:12 windows_31j.pyc

/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib/japanese/aliases:
total 16
drwxrwsr-x 2 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 .
drwxrwsr-x 6 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 ..
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  948 2003-11-29 17:31 __init__.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  845 2007-02-16 09:12 __init__.pyc

/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib/japanese/c:
total 324
drwxrwsr-x 2 root list   4096 2007-03-08 14:12 .
drwxrwsr-x 6 root list   4096 2007-03-08 14:12 ..
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list   1788 2004-11-28 03:13 euc_jp.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list   2555 2007-02-16 09:12 euc_jp.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list     38 2001-09-24 09:21 __init__.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list    190 2007-02-16 09:12 __init__.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list   2783 2004-11-28 03:13 iso_2022_jp_1.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list   3438 2007-02-16 09:12 iso_2022_jp_1.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list   2971 2004-11-28 03:14 iso_2022_jp_ext.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list   3503 2007-02-16 09:12 iso_2022_jp_ext.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list   2616 2004-11-28 03:13 iso_2022_jp.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list   3252 2007-02-16 09:12 iso_2022_jp.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 261776 2007-02-16 09:13 _japanese_codecs.so
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list   1828 2004-11-28 03:13 ms932.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list   2598 2007-02-16 09:12 ms932.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list   1837 2004-11-28 03:14 shift_jis.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list   2610 2007-02-16 09:12 shift_jis.pyc

/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib/japanese/mappings:
total 1292
drwxrwsr-x 2 root list   4096 2007-03-08 14:12 .
drwxrwsr-x 6 root list   4096 2007-03-08 14:12 ..
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 158313 2002-09-21 11:59 euc_jp.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 165837 2007-02-16 09:12 euc_jp.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list     37 2000-12-19 00:13 __init__.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list    197 2007-02-16 09:12 __init__.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 158313 2002-09-21 12:00 jis_x_0208.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 165841 2007-02-16 09:12 jis_x_0208.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 139637 2000-12-18 14:29 jis_x_0212.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 146151 2007-02-16 09:12 jis_x_0212.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 158313 2002-09-21 11:59 shift_jis.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 165840 2007-02-16 09:12 shift_jis.pyc

/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib/japanese/python:
total 96
drwxrwsr-x 2 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 .
drwxrwsr-x 6 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 ..
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 4842 2004-11-28 03:14 euc_jp.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 5304 2007-02-16 09:12 euc_jp.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list   38 2001-09-24 09:15 __init__.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  195 2007-02-16 09:12 __init__.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 6047 2004-11-28 03:14 iso_2022_jp_1.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 5690 2007-02-16 09:12 iso_2022_jp_1.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 6544 2004-11-28 03:14 iso_2022_jp_ext.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 5956 2007-02-16 09:12 iso_2022_jp_ext.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 5670 2004-11-28 03:14 iso_2022_jp.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 5392 2007-02-16 09:12 iso_2022_jp.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 4186 2004-11-28 03:14 shift_jis.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 4971 2007-02-16 09:12 shift_jis.pyc

/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib/korean:
total 92
drwxrwsr-x 5 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 .
drwxrwsr-x 6 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 ..
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 1595 2002-07-18 19:01 aliases.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  772 2007-02-16 09:13 aliases.pyc
drwxrwsr-x 2 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 c
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  976 2002-07-18 19:01 cp949.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  299 2007-02-16 09:13 cp949.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  979 2002-07-18 19:01 euc_kr.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  302 2007-02-16 09:13 euc_kr.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  967 2002-07-18 19:01 hangul.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  274 2007-02-16 09:13 hangul.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  882 2002-07-18 19:01 __init__.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  186 2007-02-16 09:13 __init__.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  994 2002-07-18 19:01 iso_2022_kr.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  317 2007-02-16 09:13 iso_2022_kr.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  976 2002-07-18 19:01 johab.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  299 2007-02-16 09:13 johab.pyc
drwxrwsr-x 2 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 mappings
drwxrwsr-x 2 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 python
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  991 2002-07-18 19:01 qwerty2bul.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  314 2007-02-16 09:13 qwerty2bul.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  985 2002-07-18 19:01 unijohab.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  308 2007-02-16 09:13 unijohab.pyc

/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib/korean/c:
total 972
drwxrwsr-x 2 root list   4096 2007-03-08 14:12 .
drwxrwsr-x 5 root list   4096 2007-03-08 14:12 ..
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list   1264 2002-07-18 19:01 cp949.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list    946 2007-02-16 09:13 cp949.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list   1268 2002-07-18 19:01 euc_kr.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list    950 2007-02-16 09:13 euc_kr.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  19352 2007-02-16 09:13 hangul.so
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list    882 2002-07-18 19:01 __init__.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list    188 2007-02-16 09:13 __init__.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 936536 2007-02-16 09:13 _koco.so

/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib/korean/mappings:
total 996
drwxrwsr-x 2 root list   4096 2007-03-08 14:12 .
drwxrwsr-x 5 root list   4096 2007-03-08 14:12 ..
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list    882 2002-07-18 19:01 __init__.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list    195 2007-02-16 09:13 __init__.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  78253 2002-07-18 19:01 johab_ideograph.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  81155 2007-02-16 09:13 johab_ideograph.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  55035 2002-07-18 19:01 ksc5601_hangul.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  56918 2007-02-16 09:13 ksc5601_hangul.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 113412 2002-07-18 19:01 ksc5601_ideograph.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 118033 2007-02-16 09:13 ksc5601_ideograph.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  23707 2002-07-23 13:00 ksc5601_misc.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  23949 2007-02-16 09:13 ksc5601_misc.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 193062 2002-07-18 19:01 uhc.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 212746 2007-02-16 09:13 uhc.pyc

/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib/korean/python:
total 120
drwxrwsr-x 2 root list  4096 2007-03-08 14:12 .
drwxrwsr-x 5 root list  4096 2007-03-08 14:12 ..
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  1034 2002-07-18 19:01 cp949.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list   416 2007-02-16 09:13 cp949.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  5682 2002-07-18 19:01 euc_kr.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  4628 2007-02-16 09:13 euc_kr.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list 10404 2002-07-18 19:01 hangul.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  9891 2007-02-16 09:13 hangul.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list   882 2002-07-18 19:01 __init__.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list   193 2007-02-16 09:13 __init__.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  6873 2002-07-18 19:01 iso_2022_kr.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  4456 2007-02-16 09:13 iso_2022_kr.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  7166 2002-07-18 19:01 johab.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  6427 2007-02-16 09:13 johab.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  7208 2002-07-18 19:01 qwerty2bul.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  6173 2007-02-16 09:13 qwerty2bul.pyc
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  1758 2002-07-18 19:01 unijohab.py
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  1597 2007-02-16 09:13 unijohab.pyc

/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib/lib:
total 12
drwxrwsr-x 3 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 .
drwxrwsr-x 6 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 ..
drwxrwsr-x 3 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 python2.4

/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib/lib/python2.4:
total 12
drwxrwsr-x 3 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 .
drwxrwsr-x 3 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 ..
drwxrwsr-x 2 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 site-packages

/var/lib/mailman/pythonlib/lib/python2.4/site-packages:
total 12
drwxrwsr-x 2 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 .
drwxrwsr-x 3 root list 4096 2007-03-08 14:12 ..
-rw-r--r-- 1 root list  110 2002-06-04 04:39 japanese.pth
xxxxx#  

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From kwz-mm at commpartners.com  Thu Apr 19 03:29:21 2007
From: kwz-mm at commpartners.com (Karl Zander)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 21:29:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Placing a list member on "hold"
Message-ID: <web-3856708@commpartners.com>

  
Is there a away to place a list member on "hold".  That 
is, set them to "nomail" and prevent them from logging in 
to change back to getting mail.  Of course we can 
unsubscribe the member.  We have a need to sometimes 
review a member's membership status on the lists.  The 
list administrators would like to temporarily place them 
on hold without have to unsubscribe them while this review 
is underway.

--Karl


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Apr 19 04:55:48 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 21:55:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Managing lists as a non-root/Mailman user
In-Reply-To: <9A8AED0672A84D105A19F5B5@srb.local>
References: <PC17602007041718540507969cad6f81@msapiro>
	<p06240508c24b6d9e8d31@[10.0.1.199]>
	<9A8AED0672A84D105A19F5B5@srb.local>
Message-ID: <p06240504c24c8a79505f@[10.0.1.199]>

At 6:19 AM -0400 4/18/07, Steve Burling quoted me:

>>  This is not a given in NFS server environments.
>
>  To which I reply:
>
>  It's a given in well-managed NFS environments.

In the nearly twenty years I've been doing this sort of stuff, I 
don't think I've ever ran into a single NFS environment that I would 
call "well-managed".  Some were not as badly managed as others, but 
they all had major problems.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From david at vizion2000.net  Thu Apr 19 14:01:42 2007
From: david at vizion2000.net (David Southwell)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 05:01:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuration check
Message-ID: <200704190501.42656.david@vizion2000.net>


Hi

Is there a mailman command that dumps the current running configuration 
options?

I have been having trouble with the --with-mail-gid=mailman option and errors 
reports. I am wanting to check whether I am getting the errors messages. This 
means either --with-mail-gid=mailman is not set OR something else is going 
wrong. I believe the latter to be the case OR something is not correct with 
the compile.

david

From david at vizion2000.net  Thu Apr 19 14:06:37 2007
From: david at vizion2000.net (David Southwell)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 05:06:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuration check
In-Reply-To: <200704190501.42656.david@vizion2000.net>
References: <200704190501.42656.david@vizion2000.net>
Message-ID: <200704190506.37251.david@vizion2000.net>

On Thursday 19 April 2007 05:01:42 David Southwell wrote:
> Hi
>
> Is there a mailman command that dumps the current running configuration
> options?
>
> I have been having trouble with the --with-mail-gid=mailman option and
> errors reports. I am wanting to check whether I am getting the errors
                                                            ^^^^^ typo 
should                         -----------------------------------be why!!

> messages. This means either --with-mail-gid=mailman is not set OR something
> else is going wrong. I believe the latter to be the case OR something is
> not correct with the compile.
>
> david


From david at vizion2000.net  Thu Apr 19 14:23:40 2007
From: david at vizion2000.net (David Southwell)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 05:23:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List owner changes anomalies
Message-ID: <200704190523.40483.david@vizion2000.net>

Hi

On a list the email address for the list owner was changed.

1. When logging on to admin/listname the old owner run by address is shown on 
the Administrator Authentication page.
2. Clicking on the run by address in the Administrator Authentication page 
causes the old address to be passed to mail program.
3. On the Mailing list general options page the new owners run by address is 
shown.
4 Clicking on the run by address in Mailing list general options page causes 
the old address to be passed to mail program.
5. All other pages are as 1 & 2 unless they are reloaded. Following reload 
they behave as 3&4.
6. After logout state 5 is again applicable.

Solutions anyone?

david
fmailman-2.1.9_1     
postfix-2.4.0,1     


From srb at umich.edu  Thu Apr 19 15:05:38 2007
From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 09:05:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Managing lists as a non-root/Mailman user
In-Reply-To: <p06240504c24c8a79505f@[10.0.1.199]>
References: <PC17602007041718540507969cad6f81@msapiro>
	<p06240508c24b6d9e8d31@[10.0.1.199]>
	<9A8AED0672A84D105A19F5B5@srb.local>
	<p06240504c24c8a79505f@[10.0.1.199]>
Message-ID: <5F18DCFAF6192F7D4A7DDDA1@srb.local>

--On April 18, 2007 9:55:48 PM -0500 Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> 
wrote:

> In the nearly twenty years I've been doing this sort of stuff, I don't
> think I've ever ran into a single NFS environment that I would call
> "well-managed".  Some were not as badly managed as others, but they all
> had major problems.

To which I reply:

That's to bad.  In the nearly thirty years that I've been doing this sort 
of stuff, I've come across a few.  I work in (and help manage) one now.

-- 
Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910

From david at vizion2000.net  Thu Apr 19 15:41:41 2007
From: david at vizion2000.net (David Southwell)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 06:41:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Managing lists as a non-root/Mailman user
In-Reply-To: <5F18DCFAF6192F7D4A7DDDA1@srb.local>
References: <PC17602007041718540507969cad6f81@msapiro>
	<p06240504c24c8a79505f@[10.0.1.199]>
	<5F18DCFAF6192F7D4A7DDDA1@srb.local>
Message-ID: <200704190641.41797.david@vizion2000.net>

On Thursday 19 April 2007 06:05:38 Steve Burling wrote:
> --On April 18, 2007 9:55:48 PM -0500 Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
>
> wrote:
> > In the nearly twenty years I've been doing this sort of stuff, I don't
> > think I've ever ran into a single NFS environment that I would call
> > "well-managed".  Some were not as badly managed as others, but they all
> > had major problems.
>
> To which I reply:
>
> That's to bad.  In the nearly thirty years that I've been doing this sort
> of stuff, I've come across a few.  I work in (and help manage) one now.

well if I remember correctly NFS was developed by Sun but not first introduced 
fully until  very early spring of 1989 (RFC 1094). However the degree of time 
over which any one of us has been associated, to one degree or another, with 
its use, is IMHO, far less significant than the facts that have emerged in 
practice. The evidence does seem to point pretty conclusively towards the 
notion that what might be interpreted as a "well-managed" environment depends 
very heavily upon flow-control conditions. This is a factor that is not under 
the total control of administrators. 

NFS dynamics over flow-controlled wide area networks by Chang, Morris & Kung 
of Harvard ( INFOCOM '97) is recomended reading. The evidence clearly shows 
that NFS over TCP works badly with small packets but is pretty much OK over 
ATM WANS if the flow control keeps the cell loss rate under 1%.

NFS is like anything else - it reflects not how long we have been doing it for 
but how well we perform in the currently prevailing conditions!!

David

From mcnutt at utk.edu  Thu Apr 19 18:14:34 2007
From: mcnutt at utk.edu (McNutt Jr, William R)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 12:14:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Users NOT getting multiple copies of the same
	message, and they WANT them
In-Reply-To: <mailman.28.1176976823.4290.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <0913EC48F2B05C4FBE4878BAFCABBFEC3601F3@KFSVS2.utk.tennessee.edu>

I have some users who post the same message to multiple lists.  They are
on these lists.  And they want to see each copy of the message from each
list.  That way they "know the lists are working."

Recently they've noticed that although the messages show up in the
archives, they are not getting a copy of the message from each list,
only the first one.

Is this a mailman feature?

Bill McNutt

From rhealy at whoi.edu  Thu Apr 19 18:17:51 2007
From: rhealy at whoi.edu (Richard Healy)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 12:17:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman receiving mail, but mail not going out.
Message-ID: <4627962F.2080805@whoi.edu>

I'm running mailman 2.1.5 on RH FC3.
Okay, I've searched the list and have read through many posts.  I've read the 
FAQ about what to check 
(http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp).  Checked 
everyone and made sure all was working: crons, mailmanctl, etc. Qrunner is 
running, all 8 processes.  Sendmail is using smrsh, but mailman is in /etc/smrsh 
linking correctly. Mail is being received and passed to mailman and placed in 
the mailman queue - where it sits.

I'm using sendmail as the MTA and the problem is probably with it, but I can't 
figure it out. I've configured it to accept mail from all domains, to not do a 
DNS lookup. All the aliases are in /etc/aliases. The db has been refreshed. 
Sendmail restarted.

The ~mailman/logs/qrunner shows nothing except when I stop and restart mailmanctl:
Apr 19 11:55:56 2007 (9492) VirginRunner qrunner started.
Apr 19 11:55:56 2007 (9491) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.

Nothing shows up /usr/local/mailman/logs/error.
Nothing shows up /usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp.

Here's the tail maillog:

Apr 19 12:14:06 cuttyhunk sendmail[9604]: l3JGE6lr009604: from=rjh, size=7226, 
class=0, nrcpts=1, 
msgid=<200704191614.l3JGE6lr009604 at cuttyhunk.nosams.whoi.edu>, relay=rjh at localhost
Apr 19 12:14:06 cuttyhunk sendmail[9605]: l3JGE610009605: 
from=<rjh at cuttyhunk.nosams.whoi.edu>, size=7557, class=0, nrcpts=1, 
msgid=<200704191614.l3JGE6lr009604 at cuttyhunk.nosams.whoi.edu>, proto=ESMTP, 
daemon=MTA, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
Apr 19 12:14:06 cuttyhunk sendmail[9604]: l3JGE6lr009604: 
to=test_mail at cuttyhunk, ctladdr=rjh (500/500), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, 
mailer=relay, pri=37226, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent 
(l3JGE610009605 Message accepted for delivery)
Apr 19 12:14:06 cuttyhunk sendmail[9606]: l3JGE610009605: 
to="|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test_mail", 
ctladdr=<test_mail at cuttyhunk.nosams.whoi.edu> (8/0), delay=00:00:00, 
xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=37806, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent

The mail sits in /var/spool/mailman/in.

Any ideas? Any suggestions?  I'm completely stuck.

-Rick


-- 
Richard J. Healy :: Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution/NOSAMS
http://www.nosams.whoi.edu :: email:rhealy at whoi.edu ph: 508-289-3514 fx: 
508-457-2183


From ivanlan at pauahtun.org  Thu Apr 19 18:53:35 2007
From: ivanlan at pauahtun.org (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:53:35 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing archives again
Message-ID: <ba5cdc4b0704190953h6eed3239h8955132783df0aa8@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All--
There's a FAQ entry on importing archives.  However, if the
instructions are followed, the existing list.mbox would be overwritten
with an old archive.  That surely cannot be right.  Can I put it
someplace else in order to import it?  Shouldn't I lock the list while
running bin/arch?

I've got seven years worth of archives to do for as many lists, so I'd
really like to get this right.  I'd be happy to edit the FAQ once I
know the proper steps.  (And if I missed the answers in my admittedly
cursory search of the mailman-users archives, they should still be
inserted into the FAQ.)

Thanks all.

Metta,
Ivan
-- 
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.pauahtun.org/
http://www.python.org/workshops/1998-11/proceedings/papers/laningham/laningham.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Apr 19 21:33:26 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:33:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuration check
In-Reply-To: <200704190501.42656.david@vizion2000.net>
References: <200704190501.42656.david@vizion2000.net>
Message-ID: <p06240501c24d745e2c8c@[10.0.1.199]>

At 5:01 AM -0700 4/19/07, David Southwell wrote:

>  Is there a mailman command that dumps the current running configuration
>  options?

Did you search the FAQ Wizard or the documentation?  Did you see FAQ 4.9?

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Apr 19 21:35:28 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:35:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List owner changes anomalies
In-Reply-To: <200704190523.40483.david@vizion2000.net>
References: <200704190523.40483.david@vizion2000.net>
Message-ID: <p06240502c24d74c043ba@[10.0.1.199]>

At 5:23 AM -0700 4/19/07, David Southwell wrote:

>  1. When logging on to admin/listname the old owner run by address is shown on
>  the Administrator Authentication page.
>  2. Clicking on the run by address in the Administrator Authentication page
>  causes the old address to be passed to mail program.
>  3. On the Mailing list general options page the new owners run by address is
>  shown.
>  4 Clicking on the run by address in Mailing list general options page causes
>  the old address to be passed to mail program.
>  5. All other pages are as 1 & 2 unless they are reloaded. Following reload
>  they behave as 3&4.
>  6. After logout state 5 is again applicable.

Hmm.  This sounds like it might be related to the kinds of problems 
discussed in FAQ 4.45, 4.65, and 4.71, although I may be wrong.  You 
should at least check them out and follow the relevant links that are 
provided.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Apr 19 21:37:26 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:37:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Users NOT getting multiple copies of the same
 message, and they WANT them
In-Reply-To: <0913EC48F2B05C4FBE4878BAFCABBFEC3601F3@KFSVS2.utk.tennessee.edu>
References: <0913EC48F2B05C4FBE4878BAFCABBFEC3601F3@KFSVS2.utk.tennessee.edu>
Message-ID: <p06240503c24d750f5609@[10.0.1.199]>

At 12:14 PM -0400 4/19/07, McNutt Jr, William R wrote:

>  Recently they've noticed that although the messages show up in the
>  archives, they are not getting a copy of the message from each list,
>  only the first one.

My guess is that they're using Google, which has this "helpful" 
concept of eliminating any copies of messages that it thinks might 
potentially be duplicates of other messages, and sometimes it is 
wrong.

I think that this issue is discussed in the FAQ, but I could be wrong.

>  Is this a mailman feature?

Nope, at least not unless I've misunderstood what you're asking.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Apr 19 21:40:12 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:40:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman receiving mail, but mail not going out.
In-Reply-To: <4627962F.2080805@whoi.edu>
References: <4627962F.2080805@whoi.edu>
Message-ID: <p06240504c24d757d6ff1@[10.0.1.199]>

At 12:17 PM -0400 4/19/07, Richard Healy wrote:

>                   Mail is being received and passed to mailman and placed in
>  the mailman queue - where it sits.

If the mail is getting into the Mailman queue and not being 
processed, that tells me that the inbound queue runner is either not 
running at all, or not working properly.

>  The ~mailman/logs/qrunner shows nothing except when I stop and restart
>  mailmanctl:
>  Apr 19 11:55:56 2007 (9492) VirginRunner qrunner started.
>  Apr 19 11:55:56 2007 (9491) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.

There's no "IncomingRunner" being shown.  There's your problem.

There's also a bunch of other runners that aren't being shown, which 
is also a problem.  The stuff you show above should look more like 
this:

Apr 18 20:22:56 2007 (79940) VirginRunner qrunner started.
Apr 18 20:22:56 2007 (79936) CommandRunner qrunner started.
Apr 18 20:22:56 2007 (79939) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
Apr 18 20:22:56 2007 (79934) ArchRunner qrunner started.
Apr 18 20:22:56 2007 (79937) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Apr 18 20:22:56 2007 (79938) NewsRunner qrunner started.
Apr 18 20:22:56 2007 (79941) RetryRunner qrunner started.
Apr 18 20:22:56 2007 (79935) BounceRunner qrunner started.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Apr 19 21:43:08 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:43:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing archives again
In-Reply-To: <ba5cdc4b0704190953h6eed3239h8955132783df0aa8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ba5cdc4b0704190953h6eed3239h8955132783df0aa8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240505c24d7622969a@[10.0.1.199]>

At 10:53 AM -0600 4/19/07, Ivan Van Laningham wrote:

>  There's a FAQ entry on importing archives.  However, if the
>  instructions are followed, the existing list.mbox would be overwritten
>  with an old archive.

No, I don't think so.  It just reads from the specified mbox file, or 
from the default mbox file if you don't give it a different one.  The 
"cooked" text & HTML indexes will be rebuilt during the process, but 
the "raw" mbox file should be read by the process, but otherwise 
untouched.

Of course, if you want to be extra careful, you could always copy the 
mbox file to a backup location, before doing any work with it.

>                        That surely cannot be right.  Can I put it
>  someplace else in order to import it?  Shouldn't I lock the list while
>  running bin/arch?

In my experience, that's not necessary.  And I've imported mboxes 
that were larger than 2GB in size, when rebuilding the archives for 
some ultra-busy mailing lists hosted on python.org.

>  I've got seven years worth of archives to do for as many lists, so I'd
>  really like to get this right.  I'd be happy to edit the FAQ once I
>  know the proper steps.  (And if I missed the answers in my admittedly
>  cursory search of the mailman-users archives, they should still be
>  inserted into the FAQ.)

So far as I know, the FAQ is pretty complete on this topic.  If 
there's anything missing, please let us know.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From rhealy at whoi.edu  Thu Apr 19 22:05:34 2007
From: rhealy at whoi.edu (Richard Healy)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 16:05:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman receiving mail, but mail not going out.
In-Reply-To: <p06240504c24d757d6ff1@[10.0.1.199]>
References: <4627962F.2080805@whoi.edu> <p06240504c24d757d6ff1@[10.0.1.199]>
Message-ID: <4627CB8E.8050503@whoi.edu>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 12:17 PM -0400 4/19/07, Richard Healy wrote:
> 
>>                   Mail is being received and passed to mailman and 
>> placed in
>>  the mailman queue - where it sits.
> 
> If the mail is getting into the Mailman queue and not being processed, 
> that tells me that the inbound queue runner is either not running at 
> all, or not working properly.
> 
>>  The ~mailman/logs/qrunner shows nothing except when I stop and restart
>>  mailmanctl:
>>  Apr 19 11:55:56 2007 (9492) VirginRunner qrunner started.
>>  Apr 19 11:55:56 2007 (9491) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
> 
> There's no "IncomingRunner" being shown.  There's your problem.
> 
> There's also a bunch of other runners that aren't being shown, which is 
> also a problem.  The stuff you show above should look more like this:
> 
> Apr 18 20:22:56 2007 (79940) VirginRunner qrunner started.
> Apr 18 20:22:56 2007 (79936) CommandRunner qrunner started.
> Apr 18 20:22:56 2007 (79939) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
> Apr 18 20:22:56 2007 (79934) ArchRunner qrunner started.
> Apr 18 20:22:56 2007 (79937) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
> Apr 18 20:22:56 2007 (79938) NewsRunner qrunner started.
> Apr 18 20:22:56 2007 (79941) RetryRunner qrunner started.
> Apr 18 20:22:56 2007 (79935) BounceRunner qrunner started.
> 


Apologies.  I didn't copy and paste enough of the log file.  Looks like all the 
qrunners are going (evidenced by a ps aux | grep python as well).

This is what the log says:

Apr 19 12:43:57 2007 (4432) ArchRunner qrunner started.
Apr 19 12:43:57 2007 (4434) CommandRunner qrunner started.
Apr 19 12:43:57 2007 (4435) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Apr 19 12:43:57 2007 (4433) BounceRunner qrunner started.
Apr 19 12:43:58 2007 (4436) NewsRunner qrunner started.
Apr 19 12:43:59 2007 (4438) VirginRunner qrunner started.
Apr 19 12:43:59 2007 (4437) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
Apr 19 12:43:59 2007 (4439) RetryRunner qrunner started.


So that doesn't appear to be the problem.

-Rick

-- 
Richard J. Healy :: Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution/NOSAMS
http://www.nosams.whoi.edu :: email:rhealy at whoi.edu ph: 508-289-3514 fx: 
508-457-2183


From david at vizion2000.net  Thu Apr 19 22:30:41 2007
From: david at vizion2000.net (David Southwell)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 13:30:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List owner changes anomalies
In-Reply-To: <p06240502c24d74c043ba@[10.0.1.199]>
References: <200704190523.40483.david@vizion2000.net>
	<p06240502c24d74c043ba@[10.0.1.199]>
Message-ID: <200704191330.42120.david@vizion2000.net>

On Thursday 19 April 2007 12:35:28 Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 5:23 AM -0700 4/19/07, David Southwell wrote:
> >  1. When logging on to admin/listname the old owner run by address is
> > shown on the Administrator Authentication page.
> >  2. Clicking on the run by address in the Administrator Authentication
> > page causes the old address to be passed to mail program.
> >  3. On the Mailing list general options page the new owners run by
> > address is shown.
> >  4 Clicking on the run by address in Mailing list general options page
> > causes the old address to be passed to mail program.
> >  5. All other pages are as 1 & 2 unless they are reloaded. Following
> > reload they behave as 3&4.
> >  6. After logout state 5 is again applicable.
>
> Hmm.  This sounds like it might be related to the kinds of problems
> discussed in FAQ 4.45, 4.65, and 4.71, although I may be wrong.  You
> should at least check them out and follow the relevant links that are
> provided.
Thanks for your input BUT...

UMPh - nothing like the circumstances referred to in any of the FAQ,s which 
focus on the need for reauthentication . The circumstances I describe, have  
nothing to do with that issue as the need for re-authorization does not 
occur.

This seems to be a bug where the [list-owner_ID] is not being properly 
maintained. I realize I have a possible clue that may help someone who is 
familiar with mailman's logic. The original email address for the owner was 
given in error. It was an email address that would not have been validatable! 
Does that help anyone to get to the bottom of this?
david


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Thu Apr 19 22:32:41 2007
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:32:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List owner changes anomalies
In-Reply-To: <200704191330.42120.david@vizion2000.net>
References: <200704190523.40483.david@vizion2000.net>
	<p06240502c24d74c043ba@[10.0.1.199]>
	<200704191330.42120.david@vizion2000.net>
Message-ID: <52CD8B25-765C-48B8-8604-C237FACD3097@goldmark.org>

On Apr 19, 2007, at 3:30 PM, David Southwell wrote:

> This seems to be a bug where the [list-owner_ID] is not being properly
> maintained. I realize I have a possible clue that may help someone  
> who is
> familiar with mailman's logic. The original email address for the  
> owner was
> given in error. It was an email address that would not have been  
> validatable!
> Does that help anyone to get to the bottom of this?

Can you please post the result of

   ls -la mailman/data

As I understand things, you installed mailman from FreeBSD ports.  Am  
I correct in that assumption?

If you did, did you modify the Makefile or use any special settings  
when installing?

Did you use the Postfix option when installing mailman from ports?

If so the mailman wrapper should have been compiled with mail-gid=nobody

Did you also install postfix from ports?  Did you modify the  
installation process at all?  Postfix (at least the version installed  
with ports on FreeBSD is happy  to have the various aliases files and  
databases owned by "nobody"

Anyway, answering these questions should help clear things up.   
Especially give that directly listing I asked for.

Cheers,

-j


-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 20 00:12:25 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:12:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman post mail to list error
In-Reply-To: <002001c781d5$9cfecd30$d6fc6790$@co.za>
Message-ID: <PC17602007041915122503439514ee90@msapiro>

Calvin Muller wrote:

>I have followed every one of those posts that state the problem in ubuntu
>but there is no fix for it that I can seem to find, If you know how to
>correct these issues I would greatly appreciate it.


Did you see my actual post which is archived at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-April/056648.html>?
If not, I think it would be good to add me to your whitelist.

That post attempts to tell you how you can correct this problem. If you
attempt to follow that procedure and have problems, please ask
specific questions related to that procedure.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 20 00:38:10 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:38:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Placing a list member on "hold"
In-Reply-To: <web-3856708@commpartners.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070419153810076550696b07@msapiro>

Karl Zander wrote:
>  
>Is there a away to place a list member on "hold".  That 
>is, set them to "nomail" and prevent them from logging in 
>to change back to getting mail.  Of course we can 
>unsubscribe the member.  We have a need to sometimes 
>review a member's membership status on the lists.  The 
>list administrators would like to temporarily place them 
>on hold without have to unsubscribe them while this review 
>is underway.


Not really. A list admin can set a member to nomail and change the
members password so the member can't log in, but there's no way for a
list admin without additional access to the Mailman installation to
find the original password before changing it so it can be changed
back.

Also, members could still post even though set to nomail so you'l
probably need to moderate them too.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 20 01:06:45 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 16:06:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuration check
In-Reply-To: <200704190501.42656.david@vizion2000.net>
Message-ID: <PC176020070419160645051550696a30@msapiro>

David Southwell wrote:
>
>Is there a mailman command that dumps the current running configuration 
>options?


If you mean the options specified to configure when the software was
initially configured, the answer is No. Some options are evident in
certain settings in Defaults.py, but --with-mail-gid isn't one of them.


>I have been having trouble with the --with-mail-gid=mailman option and errors 
>reports. I am wanting to check whether I am getting the errors messages. This 
>means either --with-mail-gid=mailman is not set OR something else is going 
>wrong. I believe the latter to be the case OR something is not correct with 
>the compile.


Did you configure and make Mailman? If so, the configure command line
should be available in config.log in the directory you configured in.

If this is a package, be aware that various packagers use various
tricks to enable setting of the expected mail group at run time.

Also see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 20 01:22:36 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 16:22:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List owner changes anomalies
In-Reply-To: <200704190523.40483.david@vizion2000.net>
Message-ID: <PC176020070419162236051506356147@msapiro>

David Southwell wrote:
>
>On a list the email address for the list owner was changed.


How?


>1. When logging on to admin/listname the old owner run by address is shown on 
>the Administrator Authentication page.


Sounds like a page cached in a proxy.


>2. Clicking on the run by address in the Administrator Authentication page 
>causes the old address to be passed to mail program.


The target address of the mailto: link is listname-owner at example.com
regardless of who the owner is.


>3. On the Mailing list general options page the new owners run by address is 
>shown.


What is in the owner box on this page?


>4 Clicking on the run by address in Mailing list general options page causes 
>the old address to be passed to mail program.


What do you mean by the old address? The address should be
listname-owner at example.com (with appropriate listname and domain) in
all cases. Changing 'owner' changes the displayed text for the mailto:
link and it changes the address to which Mailman ultimately delivers
listname-owner email, but it doesn't change the target of the mailto:
link.


>5. All other pages are as 1 & 2 unless they are reloaded. Following reload 
>they behave as 3&4.
>6. After logout state 5 is again applicable.


Still sounds like cached pages (outside Mailman), although why cache
wouldn't be permanently refreshed on a reload, I don't know.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Apr 20 01:20:21 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:20:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman receiving mail, but mail not going out.
In-Reply-To: <4627CB8E.8050503@whoi.edu>
References: <4627962F.2080805@whoi.edu>
	<p06240504c24d757d6ff1@[10.0.1.199]> <4627CB8E.8050503@whoi.edu>
Message-ID: <p06240508c24da9759dfd@[10.0.1.199]>

At 4:05 PM -0400 4/19/07, Richard Healy wrote:

>  Apologies.  I didn't copy and paste enough of the log file.  Looks like
>  all the qrunners are going (evidenced by a ps aux | grep python as well).

Ahh, okay.  I misunderstood.  Nevermind.


If you've got all the queue runners going, I have no idea why 
incoming mail would just be sitting in the queue and not being 
processed.

Maybe Mark Sapiro or Tokio Kikuchi can help.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Apr 20 01:22:17 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:22:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List owner changes anomalies
In-Reply-To: <200704191330.42120.david@vizion2000.net>
References: <200704190523.40483.david@vizion2000.net>
	<p06240502c24d74c043ba@[10.0.1.199]>
	<200704191330.42120.david@vizion2000.net>
Message-ID: <p06240509c24da9c0af9c@[10.0.1.199]>

At 1:30 PM -0700 4/19/07, David Southwell wrote:

>  UMPh - nothing like the circumstances referred to in any of the FAQ,s which
>  focus on the need for reauthentication . The circumstances I describe, have
>  nothing to do with that issue as the need for re-authorization does not
>  occur.

Those FAQ entries relate to changes being made in the user interface, 
but not being saved by Mailman, and this kind of problem can have a 
number of different causes.

I referenced those FAQ entries because your problem sounded vaguely 
similar, albeit not identical.

>  This seems to be a bug where the [list-owner_ID] is not being properly
>  maintained. I realize I have a possible clue that may help someone who is
>  familiar with mailman's logic. The original email address for the owner was
>  given in error. It was an email address that would not have been validatable!
>  Does that help anyone to get to the bottom of this?

That's as far as I can go.  Maybe Mark or Tokio will have more luck.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 20 01:54:44 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 16:54:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Users NOT getting multiple copies of the
	samemessage, and they WANT them
In-Reply-To: <p06240503c24d750f5609@[10.0.1.199]>
Message-ID: <PC176020070419165444087536a3ec57@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 12:14 PM -0400 4/19/07, McNutt Jr, William R wrote:
>
>>  Recently they've noticed that although the messages show up in the
>>  archives, they are not getting a copy of the message from each list,
>>  only the first one.
>
>My guess is that they're using Google, which has this "helpful" 
>concept of eliminating any copies of messages that it thinks might 
>potentially be duplicates of other messages, and sometimes it is 
>wrong.
>
>I think that this issue is discussed in the FAQ, but I could be wrong.


It's mentioned at the bottom of
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.042.htp>,
but my understanding of the gmail issue is that the gmail poster would
see no messages from any list because they 'match' the sent message.
Other gmail list members would see only one of the list posts because
the ones from other lists all match.


>>  Is this a mailman feature?
>
>Nope, at least not unless I've misunderstood what you're asking.


The original 'no dups' patch was intended to do this, but it was never
distributed in an official release. Currently, Mailman delivers from
each list to all regular members of that list except the poster if the
poster selects 'not metoo' and any members in To:, Cc:, Resent-To: or
Resent-Cc: who have selected 'no dups' for that list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 20 02:08:22 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:08:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman receiving mail, but mail not going out.
In-Reply-To: <p06240508c24da9759dfd@[10.0.1.199]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704191708220750f6b43d64@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>If you've got all the queue runners going, I have no idea why 
>incoming mail would just be sitting in the queue and not being 
>processed.
>
>Maybe Mark Sapiro or Tokio Kikuchi can help.


Is your 'in' queue sliced? I.e., do you have anything involving
QRUNNERS in mm_cfg.py?  Or from the other view, in the 'ps' output
does the command for IncomingRunner contain the option
'--runner=IncomingRunner:0:1'? If it says 0:1, it's not sliced, but if
for example, the second digit is 2, you must have both a 0:2 and a 1:2
IncomingRunner. This is covered in the last paragraph of sec 5)b) of
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>.


What are the files in the 'in' queue? Are they .pck files or .bak files?

Are there any errors in Mailman's error log?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 20 02:37:08 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:37:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing archives again
In-Reply-To: <p06240505c24d7622969a@[10.0.1.199]>
Message-ID: <PC17602007041917370804212799462d@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 10:53 AM -0600 4/19/07, Ivan Van Laningham wrote:
>
>>  There's a FAQ entry on importing archives.  However, if the
>>  instructions are followed, the existing list.mbox would be overwritten
>>  with an old archive.
>
>No, I don't think so.  It just reads from the specified mbox file, or 
>from the default mbox file if you don't give it a different one.  The 
>"cooked" text & HTML indexes will be rebuilt during the process, but 
>the "raw" mbox file should be read by the process, but otherwise 
>untouched.


I believe Ivan is concerned about the first step in the FAQ which says
"If your archive is in mbox format copy it to
archives/private/<list>.mbox/<list>.mbox".

That is written in the context of importing an archive into a brand new
list which has no posts yet. If the list has been running for a while
and has a non-empty archives/private/<list>.mbox/<list>.mbox file, you
don't want to overwrite it with the old archive .mbox file.


>>                        That surely cannot be right.  Can I put it
>>  someplace else in order to import it?  Shouldn't I lock the list while
>>  running bin/arch?


You have lots of choices. You don't need to lock the list. bin/arch
locks the archive.

Your choices depend on whether or not you care about message numbers in
the archive and whether they should be preserved (they are part of the
message URL), and how much trouble you want to go to the 'next time'.
Here's a rough summary of your choices. You may want to briefly stop
mailman if you are merging into the existing .mbox to prevent it from
being updated while you are manipulating it.

1) append the old archive .mbox to the existing archive .mbox and run
bin/arch --wipe <listname>

2) prepend the old archive .mbox to the existing archive .mbox and run
bin/arch --wipe <listname>

3) just run bin/arch <listname> /path/to/old/.mbox

Choice 1) preserves the message numbers for the current archive but
gives a non-chronological .mbox file.

Choice 2) gives a chronological .mbox file, but alters message numbers
for the current archive.

Choice 3) is the simplest, but it complicates future rebuilding and
makes it very difficult to preserve message numbers in a future
rebuild.

Also note, it is a good idea to run bin/cleanarch to at least check all
the .mbox files.


>>  I've got seven years worth of archives to do for as many lists, so I'd
>>  really like to get this right.  I'd be happy to edit the FAQ once I
>>  know the proper steps.  (And if I missed the answers in my admittedly
>>  cursory search of the mailman-users archives, they should still be
>>  inserted into the FAQ.)
>
>So far as I know, the FAQ is pretty complete on this topic.  If 
>there's anything missing, please let us know.


The FAQ could be updated for the 'merging archives' case. Please do if
you feel you could help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From justbrits at comcast.net  Fri Apr 20 04:39:55 2007
From: justbrits at comcast.net (JB@comcast)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 20:39:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cPanel Purgatory??!!??
References: <000801c780a2$566ade10$650aa8c0@office>
Message-ID: <015101c782f5$2e32d470$6401a8c0@actualshop>

Gents:

I am going INSANE!!!    Below are 3 different examples of footers sent out with posts from just 3 out of the dozen+ Lists I have behind cPanel.  I have spent HOURS
trying to find differences between the 3 for the settings for "footers" and their HTML
"sending" and CANNOT!!

Not sure if the actual "pictures" of either actual html or just "print" with come thru, so...
******************************************************************************
in this one just the 4th line comes thru as clickable and I added it just as you can read.  no "code".
_______________________________________________
50thcommittee mailing list
50thcommittee at sprite-midgetclub.info
http://sprite-midgetclub.info/mailman/listinfo/50thcommittee_sprite-midgetclub.info
http://www.sprite-midgetclub.org
**********************************************************************
**********************************************************************
in this one both lines 2 + 3 come thru as "clickable".  As do most of the others.
_______________________________________________
50thcommittee mailing list
50thcommittee at spritespree.org
http://spritespree.org/mailman/listinfo/50thcommittee_spritespree
*******************************************************************************
*******************************************************************************
in this one NONE come thru as "clickable"?!?  Nor did I add the "leave" line??
_______________________________________________
Notify mailing list
Notify at justbrits.com
Notify-leave at justbrits.com
http://justbrits.com/mailman/listinfo/notify_justbrits.com
###as the end of Line 4 was the end of my "paste" it changed to "clickable".###

The only reason I am posting to group is that maybe it (and the solution) would help
others "trapped" like I am -:)-:)

Thanks!!

Ed
www.justbrits.com
Please feel free to join my "Joke Section" at above.  
571 "items"(mostly) videos!!

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 20 05:45:33 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 20:45:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cPanel Purgatory??!!??
In-Reply-To: <015101c782f5$2e32d470$6401a8c0@actualshop>
Message-ID: <PC176020070419204533092137e3c93a@msapiro>

JB at comcast wrote:
>
>I am going INSANE!!!    Below are 3 different examples of footers sent out with posts from just 3 out of the dozen+ Lists I have behind cPanel.  I have spent HOURS
>trying to find differences between the 3 for the settings for "footers" and their HTML
>"sending" and CANNOT!!


cPanel has it's own mods having to do with footers and I have no idea
exactly what they are or what they do, except I know that they can
cause duplication of attached images in posts. See
<http://forums.cpanel.net/showthread.php?t=61603> (registration
required). Also see
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-February/055639.html>.


>Not sure if the actual "pictures" of either actual html or just "print" with come thru, so...


What would actually be helpful would be just the contents of msg_footer.


What follows talks about two things - our mailman package and MUAs. The
Mailman stuff may or may not apply to cPanel.

In general you can't put html tags in msg_footer and have them work as
html in the message, because the footer is always inserted/attached in
a text/plain part. Thus if I put

<a
href="http://www.sprite-midgetclub.org">http://www.sprite-midgetclub.org</a>

in msg_footer, what you will see in the email is exactly what you see
in this post. It may look like raw html without any 'clickable' link.
It may have somm clickable part(s) which may or may not be exactly
http://www.sprite-midgetclub.org. What it looks like is a function of
your MUA.

If I just put the URL or the URL in <> brackets as I have done with
several URLs already in this post, it may or may not show as
'clickable' when you view the mail. This depends entirely on your MUA
and whether or not it tries to make text that looks like a URI/URL
into a clickable link.


>******************************************************************************
>in this one just the 4th line comes thru as clickable and I added it just as you can read.  no "code".
>_______________________________________________
>50thcommittee mailing list
>50thcommittee at sprite-midgetclub.info
>http://sprite-midgetclub.info/mailman/listinfo/50thcommittee_sprite-midgetclub.info
>http://www.sprite-midgetclub.org
>**********************************************************************


The MUA I'm using to read/reply to this message shows both the 3rd and
4th lines as clickable.


>**********************************************************************
>in this one both lines 2 + 3 come thru as "clickable".  As do most of the others.
>_______________________________________________
>50thcommittee mailing list
>50thcommittee at spritespree.org
>http://spritespree.org/mailman/listinfo/50thcommittee_spritespree
>*******************************************************************************


Above, I see only the 3rd line as clickable.


>*******************************************************************************
>in this one NONE come thru as "clickable"?!?  Nor did I add the "leave" line??
>_______________________________________________
>Notify mailing list
>Notify at justbrits.com
>Notify-leave at justbrits.com
>http://justbrits.com/mailman/listinfo/notify_justbrits.com
>###as the end of Line 4 was the end of my "paste" it changed to "clickable".###


This is your MUA doing this.


>The only reason I am posting to group is that maybe it (and the solution) would help
>others "trapped" like I am -:)-:)
>
>Thanks!!
>
>Ed
>www.justbrits.com


The MUA I'm using shows the domain above as clickable because it begins
with "www."

The MUA I'm using shows no email addresses as clickable. Others do.

Bottom line:

You can't control what other people's MUA's are going to do. You can't
put actual html tags in msg_footer. Going through contortions to make
something look a certain way when YOU view it with YOUR MUA is wasted
effort because it won't look the same with other MUA's. Just put plain
email addresses and URIs/URLs in msg_footer; it's the only way to
guarantee that everyone sees something reasonable.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Fri Apr 20 06:28:41 2007
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 23:28:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Placing a list member on "hold"
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070419153810076550696b07@msapiro>
References: <PC176020070419153810076550696b07@msapiro>
Message-ID: <60873138-D9CF-4FAD-9F20-538FB66C15A9@goldmark.org>

On Apr 19, 2007, at 5:38 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> A list admin can set a member to nomail and change the
> members password so the member can't log in, but there's no way for a
> list admin without additional access to the Mailman installation to
> find the original password before changing it so it can be changed
> back.

Also the member can always request to have their password mailed to  
them.  So this really isn't a solution.

-j


-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From as.gozzi at vp44.net  Fri Apr 20 10:24:27 2007
From: as.gozzi at vp44.net (Andrea S. Gozzi)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 10:24:27 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Troubles with mailman+postfix
Message-ID: <1177057468.18766.1.camel@osmosis>

I'm currently running Postfix with SQL backend for virtual domains.
One of the domain owners wants to set up a mailing list and I decided to
go with Mailman (great web administration).

I installed Mailman and configured it (along with Postfix) following the
instructions here:
http://workaround.org/moin/PostfixTutorialContributions and everything
seems to work. I can create/delete/manage mailing lists but now postfix
is unable to delivery any message.

Postfix is 'mail.vp44.net' and I added an A record for
'lists.vp44.net' .
This came out in mail.warn:


> Apr 18 16:44:46 bnix postfix/smtp[9141]: warning: host
> lists.vp44.net[212.68.198.73]:25 greeted me with my own hostname
> mail.vp44.net
> Apr 18 16:44:46 bnix postfix/smtp[9141]: warning: host
> lists.vp44.net[212.68.198.73]:25 replied to HELO/EHLO with my own
> hostname mail.vp44.net

And that's in delivery failed e-mail:


> <***@gmail.com>: mail for lists.vp44.net loops back to myself


Would somebody know how to fix this?


Andrea S. Gozzi


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Apr 20 11:16:17 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 18:16:17 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Troubles with mailman+postfix
In-Reply-To: <1177057468.18766.1.camel@osmosis>
References: <1177057468.18766.1.camel@osmosis>
Message-ID: <877is7quce.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Andrea S. Gozzi writes:

 > > <***@gmail.com>: mail for lists.vp44.net loops back to myself

 > Would somebody know how to fix this?

You probably need to tell postfix that it accepts mail addressed to
"lists.vp44.net" for local delivery.  I would guess that the parameter
is virtual_alias_domains in main.cf.  HTH

From ptomblin at xcski.com  Fri Apr 20 13:26:42 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:26:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Troubles with mailman+postfix
In-Reply-To: <1177057468.18766.1.camel@osmosis>
References: <1177057468.18766.1.camel@osmosis>
Message-ID: <4628A372.8070700@xcski.com>

Andrea S. Gozzi wrote:
> I'm currently running Postfix with SQL backend for virtual domains.
> One of the domain owners wants to set up a mailing list and I decided to
> go with Mailman (great web administration).
> 
> I installed Mailman and configured it (along with Postfix) following the
> instructions here:
> http://workaround.org/moin/PostfixTutorialContributions and everything
> seems to work. I can create/delete/manage mailing lists but now postfix
> is unable to delivery any message.
> 
> Postfix is 'mail.vp44.net' and I added an A record for
> 'lists.vp44.net' .
> This came out in mail.warn:
> 
> 
>> Apr 18 16:44:46 bnix postfix/smtp[9141]: warning: host
>> lists.vp44.net[212.68.198.73]:25 greeted me with my own hostname
>> mail.vp44.net
>> Apr 18 16:44:46 bnix postfix/smtp[9141]: warning: host
>> lists.vp44.net[212.68.198.73]:25 replied to HELO/EHLO with my own
>> hostname mail.vp44.net
> 

You need to add lists.vp44.net to virtual_alias_domains (if you're using 
virtual alias domains) or to mydestination.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com>
"Stay calm, be brave, and wait for the signs!"

From rhealy at whoi.edu  Fri Apr 20 15:20:26 2007
From: rhealy at whoi.edu (Richard Healy)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 09:20:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman receiving mail, but mail not going out.
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200704191708220750f6b43d64@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200704191708220750f6b43d64@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4628BE1A.7060902@whoi.edu>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> 
> Is your 'in' queue sliced? I.e., do you have anything involving
> QRUNNERS in mm_cfg.py?  Or from the other view, in the 'ps' output
> does the command for IncomingRunner contain the option
> '--runner=IncomingRunner:0:1'? If it says 0:1, it's not sliced, but if
> for example, the second digit is 2, you must have both a 0:2 and a 1:2
> IncomingRunner. This is covered in the last paragraph of sec 5)b) of
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>.
> 
> 

No. It's not being sliced. 'ps' output shows --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1.

> What are the files in the 'in' queue? Are they .pck files or .bak files?
> 

The files in the 'in' queue are .pck files.

> Are there any errors in Mailman's error log?
> 

There are errors in the error log, but they date back almost a year from when I 
first installed mailman.  There is nothing new in the log since I restarted 
mailman (several times), but here is the output from the log from last year:

Jun 14 14:49:26 2006 mailmanctl(7116): Traceback (most recent call last):
Jun 14 14:49:26 2006 mailmanctl(7116):   File 
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 548, in ?
Jun 14 14:49:26 2006 mailmanctl(7116):      main()
Jun 14 14:49:26 2006 mailmanctl(7116):   File 
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 474, in main
Jun 14 14:49:26 2006 mailmanctl(7116):      pid, status = os.wait()
Jun 14 14:49:26 2006 mailmanctl(7116):   File 
"/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 434, in sigalrm_handler
Jun 14 14:49:26 2006 mailmanctl(7116):      lock.refresh()
Jun 14 14:49:26 2006 mailmanctl(7116):   File 
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 229, in refresh
Jun 14 14:49:26 2006 mailmanctl(7116):      raise NotLockedError, '%s: %s' % 
(repr(self), self.__read())Jun 14 14:49:26 2006 mailmanctl(7116): 
Mailman.LockFile . NotLockedError :  <LockFile -1212642388: 
/usr/local/mailman/locks/master-qrunner [unlocked: 108000sec] pid=7116>: 
/usr/local/mailman/locks/master-qrunner.cuttyhunk.nosams.whoi.edu.7127

The contents of the /usr/local/mailman/locks directory is recent, though:

-rw-rw-r--  2 mailman mailman 70 Apr 20  2007 master-qrunner
-rw-rw-r--  2 mailman mailman 70 Apr 20  2007 
master-qrunner.cuttyhunk.nosams.whoi.edu.4431


-Rick




From mcnutt at utk.edu  Fri Apr 20 16:33:02 2007
From: mcnutt at utk.edu (McNutt Jr, William R)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 10:33:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Users NOT getting multiple copies of
	thesamemessage, and they WANT them
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070419165444087536a3ec57@msapiro>
Message-ID: <0913EC48F2B05C4FBE4878BAFCABBFEC360613@KFSVS2.utk.tennessee.edu>

What's the difference between "no dups" and "no metoo?"

>>>>

The original 'no dups' patch was intended to do this, but it was never
distributed in an official release. Currently, Mailman delivers from
each list to all regular members of that list except the poster if the
poster selects 'not metoo' and any members in To:, Cc:, Resent-To: or
Resent-Cc: who have selected 'no dups' for that list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From david at vizion2000.net  Fri Apr 20 17:41:53 2007
From: david at vizion2000.net (David Southwell)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 08:41:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman gid problem
Message-ID: <200704200841.53857.david@vizion2000.net>

/usr/local/share/doc/mailman/mailman-install.txt

6.1.1 Integrating Postfix and Mailman
.
.
* When you configure Mailman, use the --with-mail-gid=mailman
       switch; this will be the default if you configured Mailman after
       adding the mailman owner. Because the owner of the aliases.db file
       is mailman, Postfix will execute Mailman's wrapper program as uid
       and gid mailman.
_______________________________
Extract  from my mm_cfg.py
add_virtualhost('www.vizion2000.net', 'vizion2000.net')
add_virtualhost('www.atf4.com', 'atf4.com')
add_virtualhost('www.methuselaproject.org', 'methuselaproject.org')
add_virtualhost('www.methuselaproject.com', 'methuselaproject.com')
add_virtualhost('www.ispyforum.com', 'ispyforum.com')
add_virtualhost('www.workplacemassage.co.uk', 'workplacemassage.co.uk')
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['atf4.com', 
'vizion2000.net', 
'methuselaproject.org', 
'methuselaproject.com', 
'ispyforum.com', 
'workplacemassage.co.uk',
]
MTA ='Postfix'
SMTPHOST = 'dns1.vizion2000.net'
___________________________________
Extract from /var/maillog
Apr 20 08:24:58 dns1 Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.  Mailman 
expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group "nobody", but the 
system's mail server executed the mail script as group "mailman".  Try 
tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "nobody", or re-run 
configure,  providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mailman'.
Apr 20 08:24:58 dns1 postfix/local[23091]: A271B1CC47: 
to=<hanhamphoto at vizion2000.net>, orig_to=<hanhamphoto at atf4.com>, relay=local, 
delay=526, delays=526/0.02/0/0.01, dsn=4.3.0, status=SOFTBOUNCE (Command died 
with status 2: "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post hanhamphoto". Command 
output: Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be 
executed as group "nobody", but the system's mail server executed the mail 
script as group "mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as 
group "nobody", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option 
`--with-mail-gid=mailman'. )
Apr 20 08:26:23 dns1 postfix/anvil[23079]: statistics: max connection rate 
1/60s for (smtp:168.100.1.7) at Apr 20 08:23:03
__________________________________________________

I have tried to rebuild mailman BUT the configuration option screen does not 
appear. I have tried 
# make with-mail-gid=mailman
but still get the same results
#./configure --with-mail-gid=mailman 
is not available 
There seems that mailman does not keep a record of relevant configuration 
setting and the  command to extract current settings for mailman  
bin/config_list does not report this setting either.

What should I be doing here?

Thanks in advance
david

From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Fri Apr 20 18:17:29 2007
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 11:17:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman gid problem
In-Reply-To: <200704200841.53857.david@vizion2000.net>
References: <200704200841.53857.david@vizion2000.net>
Message-ID: <A30D315C-EAD9-49CB-9CCA-D7571EAAF728@goldmark.org>

On Apr 20, 2007, at 10:41 AM, David Southwell wrote:

> ___________________________________
> Extract from /var/maillog
> Apr 20 08:24:58 dns1 Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.   
> Mailman
> expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group "nobody",  
> but the
> system's mail server executed the mail script as group "mailman".  Try
> tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "nobody", or re- 
> run
> configure,  providing the command line option `--with-mail- 
> gid=mailman'.

This is the third and final time I'll ask you give a long directory  
listing of your mailman/data directory.  (Twice here and once on the  
FreeBSD list).

That information is needed to diagnose and fix the problem.  In all  
likelihood, the problem will be fixed by a simple chown command.  But  
the reason that I ask for information is because it is useful in  
getting the problem sorted out.

If you have some privacy concerns or something that is making you  
reluctant to provide the information I asked for please say so.  Or  
if you don't understand the questions, please say so.

Asking for help, getting requests for more information, ignoring  
those requests, and than asking for more help on things that could  
have most likely been solved if you'd provided the requested  
information can get annoying.

I recently set up mailman on a system extremely similar to yours  
(FreeBSD 6.*, postfix).  And I've been a long time user of mailman  
(although with sendmail and exim).  I really am in a good position to  
help, but I might have to leave it to people with more patience.

Please see my previous post

  http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/msg44296.html

where I ask for this information and ask a series of yes or no  
questions.

> I have tried to rebuild mailman BUT the configuration option screen  
> does not
> appear. I have tried
> # make with-mail-gid=mailman
> but still get the same results
> #./configure --with-mail-gid=mailman
> is not available

If you wish to override this when doing the build from BSD ports then  
you would use

  make -DMAIL_GID=mailman reinstall

However, I STRONGLY advise against that.  It is best to keep things  
as close to the default settings as possible.

I do think that these problems are better served by doing the  
appropriate chown on the mailman/data directory instead of tinkering  
with the build which would probably lead to harder to diagnose problems.

-j
-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 20 18:23:06 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 09:23:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Users NOT getting multiple copies
	ofthesamemessage, and they WANT them
In-Reply-To: <0913EC48F2B05C4FBE4878BAFCABBFEC360613@KFSVS2.utk.tennessee.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602007042009230600627201eac4@msapiro>

McNutt Jr, William R wrote:

>What's the difference between "no dups" and "no metoo?"


No dups means don't send me the post if I am also a direct addressee.

Not metoo means don't send me my own post.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Fri Apr 20 18:38:03 2007
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 11:38:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman GID problem
In-Reply-To: <200704200842.48793.david@vizion2000.net>
References: <200704200842.48793.david@vizion2000.net>
Message-ID: <CA436D2A-08D1-4CC9-B300-7FF4E7F929F0@goldmark.org>

On Apr 20, 2007, at 10:42 AM, David Southwell wrote:

> Extract from /var/maillog
> Apr 20 08:24:58 dns1 Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.   
> Mailman
> expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group "nobody",  
> but the
> system's mail server executed the mail script as group "mailman".  Try
> tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "nobody", or re- 
> run
> configure,  providing the command line option `--with-mail- 
> gid=mailman'.

I've given a complementary response on the mailman-users list (to  
which I'm also cc'ing this)

Nothing I say below takes away from what I said in that previous  
post.  The answers to the questions I've asked would have resolved  
this problem long ago.

There appears to be a bug in the pkg-install file that comes with the  
current mailman port.  When one installs (through FreeBSD ports)  
mailman selecting postfix as the MTA, the MAIL_GID correctly gets set  
to "nobody"

But in the pkg-install script all of the mailman files get set with

     echo "---> Creating Mailman directory (/usr/local/mailman)"
     (umask 002 && /bin/mkdir -p "/usr/local/mailman") || exit 1
     /usr/sbin/chown -R "mailman:mailman" "/usr/local/mailman" || exit 1
     /bin/chmod g+s "/usr/local/mailman" || exit 1

Which is correct for everything except for /usr/local/mailman/data  
which should actually be set with

    chown -R nobody:mailman /usr/local/mailman/data

I don't know enough about ports to actually find the source pkg- 
install fine (the one I looked at and quoted from is after make has  
edited it with sed).  So I'm not certain whether the problem is in  
the Makefile or in the source for the pkg-install.

I experienced the same problem David had just a few weeks ago, but I  
attributed the problem (which I fixed by manually doing the chown) to  
me having moved my mailman set up from one machine to another.  So I  
thought that I had the wrong permissions for /usr/local/mailman/data  
as a consequence of the move and not because the mailman FreeBSD port  
was broken.

When I saw some of David's problems I started to have some  
suspicions, but I wasn't able to get enough information from him to  
really look at the ownerships the port set up.

Cheers,

-j

-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 20 19:00:37 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 10:00:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman receiving mail, but mail not going out.
In-Reply-To: <4628BE1A.7060902@whoi.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704201000370609a975b0e6@msapiro>

Richard Healy wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> What are the files in the 'in' queue? Are they .pck files or .bak files?
>> 
>
>The files in the 'in' queue are .pck files.


This is very strange. I can only think of a few things that might cause
this and none of them seem likely. Either IncomingRunner is somehow
suspended so it appears in 'ps' but is not actually running or it is
somehow really broken (which would probably cause errors in the error
log), or the installation is wrong in that the mail wrapper is queuing
the messages in one qfiles/in directory and IncomingRunner is looking
in a different qfiles/in directory.


>> Are there any errors in Mailman's error log?
>> 
>
>There are errors in the error log, but they date back almost a year from when I 
>first installed mailman.  There is nothing new in the log since I restarted 
>mailman (several times), <snip>

To elaborate on the "installation is wrong" theory, if the mail wrapper
is built pointing to a scripts/ directory with a paths.py with a
'prefix' different from the 'prefix' in the bin/ directory, this could
mess things up.

I gather Mailman was working and stopped working. If this is the case,
did you change anything before it stopped?

You could check for more that one scripts/ directory in different
places or check to see that scripts/paths.py is the same as
bin/paths.py?

Does the web interface work?

Can Mailman send mail, e.g. if you subscribe someone via the web, do
the notifications/confirmations get sent?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 20 19:14:30 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 10:14:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalization [was: mailman post mail to list
	error]
In-Reply-To: <005801c78335$8a1d4d70$9e57e850$@co.za>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704201014300234a975af68@msapiro>

Calvin Muller wrote:

>Thank you very much, I did actually manage to get it to work. :) Thanks
>again very much. If I am sending out a newsletter to people I create the
>HTML newsletter in Outlook and then I send it to mailman at hostname.blah it
>sends and is archived but how do I add unsubscribe links and personalize the
>emails?


Set 

OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes

in mm_cfg.py. Then go to the admin Non-digest options page and set
personalize to Yes or Full as desired and set msg_header and/or
msg_footer as desired. See the "Details for ..." links for a list of
allowable replacements.

Also if on General Options you set include_rfc2369_headers to Yes (and
probably include_list_post_header to No for a 'newsletter') the RFC
2369 List-* headers will be included in messages from Mailman and
these include a List-Unsubscribe: header, but not all MUAs recognize
or display these headers.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org  Fri Apr 20 19:22:49 2007
From: zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org (zs)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 19:22:49 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalization [was: mailman post mail to list
 error]
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200704201014300234a975af68@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200704201014300234a975af68@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4628F6E9.2000306@szalbot.homedns.org>

Mark Sapiro pisze:
> Calvin Muller wrote:
>
>   
>> Thank you very much, I did actually manage to get it to work. :) Thanks
>> again very much. If I am sending out a newsletter to people I create the
>> HTML newsletter in Outlook and then I send it to mailman at hostname.blah it
>> sends and is archived but how do I add unsubscribe links and personalize the
>> emails?
>>     
>
>
> Set 
>
> OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
>
> in mm_cfg.py. Then go to the admin Non-digest options page and set
> personalize to Yes or Full as desired and set msg_header and/or
> msg_footer as desired. See the "Details for ..." links for a list of
> allowable replacements.
>   
And restart mailman for the changes to take effect. At least I think you 
need to do it.
> Also if on General Options you set include_rfc2369_headers to Yes (and
> probably include_list_post_header to No for a 'newsletter') the RFC
> 2369 List-* headers will be included in messages from Mailman and
> these include a List-Unsubscribe: header, but not all MUAs recognize
> or display these headers.
>   
And be aware of one more thing - personalization comes at a price. If 
you have many users and send relatively big newsletter (say each message 
is about 200KB) and you have many users, your mail server must have a 
bit of RAM. Otherwise, it will have hard time trying to swallow a couple 
hundred of emails in a very short period time.

There's a setting to limit the number of emails mailman passes to a 
mailserver in one go. I don't remember it off hand, though.


Warm regards,

Zbigniew Szalbot

From americasroof.49613477 at bloglines.com  Fri Apr 20 19:17:53 2007
From: americasroof.49613477 at bloglines.com (americasroof.49613477 at bloglines.com)
Date: 20 Apr 2007 17:17:53 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman List Address as Part of Another Mailman
	List on Same Server?
Message-ID: <1177089473.2104669204.23221.sendItem@bloglines.com>

Is it possible to include a mailman list address as part of another mailman
address?

I am trying to maintain a discussion list for a board of directors
and would like to send the email to another board that would not have posting
capabilties.

Thanks

From rhealy at whoi.edu  Fri Apr 20 20:19:08 2007
From: rhealy at whoi.edu (Richard Healy)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 14:19:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman receiving mail, but mail not going out.
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200704201000370609a975b0e6@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200704201000370609a975b0e6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4629041C.1060302@whoi.edu>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

> To elaborate on the "installation is wrong" theory, if the mail wrapper
> is built pointing to a scripts/ directory with a paths.py with a
> 'prefix' different from the 'prefix' in the bin/ directory, this could
> mess things up.
> 
> I gather Mailman was working and stopped working. If this is the case,
> did you change anything before it stopped?
> 
> You could check for more that one scripts/ directory in different
> places or check to see that scripts/paths.py is the same as
> bin/paths.py?
> 
> Does the web interface work?
> 
> Can Mailman send mail, e.g. if you subscribe someone via the web, do
> the notifications/confirmations get sent?
> 

As it turns out there are two installations of mailman on the server, one in 
/usr/local/mailman (2.1.8) and the other in /usr/lib/mailman (2.1.5).  The 
daemons are running under the /usr/local/mailman, but the web interface (which 
is working) is under /usr/lib/mailman.  Oddly enough the apache server is 
looking in /usr/local/mailman but when I renamed /usr/lib/mailman the web 
interface no longer worked. I renamed /usr/lib/mailman and linked 
/usr/lib/mailman over to the 2.1.8 installation.  Also, the mm_cfg.py script 
under /usr/local/mailman had MTA incorrectly specified as Postfix. I had assumed 
the mm_cfg.py was in /usr/lib/mailman and edited that version, which turned out 
to have no effect.

  I now get this error message in maillog:

Apr 20 14:06:48 cuttyhunk sendmail[13390]: l3KI6mg8013390: 
from=<rjh at cuttyhunk.nosams.whoi.edu>, size=389, class=0, nrcpts=1, 
msgid=<200704201806.l3KI6ma0013389 at cuttyhunk.nosams.whoi.edu>, proto=ESMTP, 
daemon=MTA, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
Apr 20 14:06:48 cuttyhunk sendmail[13389]: l3KI6ma0013389: 
to=test_mail at cuttyhunk, ctladdr=rjh (500/500), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, 
mailer=relay, pri=30058, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent 
(l3KI6mg8013390 Message accepted for delivery)
Apr 20 14:06:48 cuttyhunk Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.  Mailman 
expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman other mail 
daemon", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group "mail". 
  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "mailman other mail 
daemon", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option 
`--with-mail-gid=mail'.
Apr 20 14:06:48 cuttyhunk sendmail[13391]: l3KI6mg8013390: 
to="|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test_mail", 
ctladdr=<test_mail at cuttyhunk.nosams.whoi.edu> (8/0), delay=00:00:00, 
xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=30637, dsn=5.3.0, stat=unknown mailer error 2
Apr 20 14:06:48 cuttyhunk sendmail[13391]: l3KI6mg8013390: l3KI6mg8013391: DSN: 
unknown mailer error 2
Apr 20 14:06:48 cuttyhunk sendmail[13391]: l3KI6mg8013391: to=rhealy at whoi.edu, 
delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=esmtp, pri=31661, 
relay=tassadar.whoi.edu. [128.128.76.63], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (Ok: queued as 
B8CC8162B27)

Why does the mailman expect the group to be "mailman other mail daemon"?  Sounds 
like it should be one of the four but is expecting the group name to actually be 
"mailman other mail daemon".  I guess I can rerun the installation as it suggests.

-Rick


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 20 20:20:08 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 11:20:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman List Address as Part of Another
	MailmanList on Same Server?
In-Reply-To: <1177089473.2104669204.23221.sendItem@bloglines.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070420112008090687fcc732@msapiro>

americasroof.49613477 at bloglines.com wrote:

>Is it possible to include a mailman list address as part of another mailman
>address?


Yes.


>I am trying to maintain a discussion list for a board of directors
>and would like to send the email to another board that would not have posting
>capabilties.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.069.htp>
and
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-February/055687.html>
for more information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From david at vizion2000.net  Fri Apr 20 20:32:13 2007
From: david at vizion2000.net (David Southwell)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 11:32:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman GID problem
In-Reply-To: <CA436D2A-08D1-4CC9-B300-7FF4E7F929F0@goldmark.org>
References: <200704200842.48793.david@vizion2000.net>
	<CA436D2A-08D1-4CC9-B300-7FF4E7F929F0@goldmark.org>
Message-ID: <200704201132.14391.david@vizion2000.net>

On Friday 20 April 2007 09:38:03 Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:
> On Apr 20, 2007, at 10:42 AM, David Southwell wrote:
> > Extract from /var/maillog
> > Apr 20 08:24:58 dns1 Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.
> > Mailman
> > expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group "nobody",
> > but the
> > system's mail server executed the mail script as group "mailman".  Try
> > tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "nobody", or re-
> > run
> > configure,  providing the command line option `--with-mail-
> > gid=mailman'.
>
> I've given a complementary response on the mailman-users list (to
> which I'm also cc'ing this)
>
> Nothing I say below takes away from what I said in that previous
> post.  The answers to the questions I've asked would have resolved
> this problem long ago.
>
> There appears to be a bug in the pkg-install file that comes with the
> current mailman port.  When one installs (through FreeBSD ports)
> mailman selecting postfix as the MTA, the MAIL_GID correctly gets set
> to "nobody"
>
> But in the pkg-install script all of the mailman files get set with
>
>      echo "---> Creating Mailman directory (/usr/local/mailman)"
>      (umask 002 && /bin/mkdir -p "/usr/local/mailman") || exit 1
>      /usr/sbin/chown -R "mailman:mailman" "/usr/local/mailman" || exit 1
>      /bin/chmod g+s "/usr/local/mailman" || exit 1
>
> Which is correct for everything except for /usr/local/mailman/data
> which should actually be set with
>
>     chown -R nobody:mailman /usr/local/mailman/data
>
> I don't know enough about ports to actually find the source pkg-
> install fine (the one I looked at and quoted from is after make has
> edited it with sed).  So I'm not certain whether the problem is in
> the Makefile or in the source for the pkg-install.
>
> I experienced the same problem David had just a few weeks ago, but I
> attributed the problem (which I fixed by manually doing the chown) to
> me having moved my mailman set up from one machine to another.  So I
> thought that I had the wrong permissions for /usr/local/mailman/data
> as a consequence of the move and not because the mailman FreeBSD port
> was broken.
>
> When I saw some of David's problems I started to have some
> suspicions, but I wasn't able to get enough information from him to
> really look at the ownerships the port set up.

The problem is I was not able to actually rebuild the ports doing a config. It 
seems once mailman has been installed once you cannot       get the config 
screne up and another make install leaves things exactly as they were for the 
previous installation. The original installation preferences are preserved - 
so I cannot tell you how the port created the ownership orininally. All I can 
tell you is that I followed the instructions in docs.
Sorry to appear to be unhelpful -- but if there is anything I can do please 
let me know.

Thanks agian for your warmth and help
\david
>
> Cheers,
>
> -j



From david at vizion2000.net  Fri Apr 20 20:38:48 2007
From: david at vizion2000.net (David Southwell)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 11:38:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman gid problem
In-Reply-To: <A30D315C-EAD9-49CB-9CCA-D7571EAAF728@goldmark.org>
References: <200704200841.53857.david@vizion2000.net>
	<A30D315C-EAD9-49CB-9CCA-D7571EAAF728@goldmark.org>
Message-ID: <200704201138.48756.david@vizion2000.net>

On Friday 20 April 2007 09:17:29 Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:
> On Apr 20, 2007, at 10:41 AM, David Southwell wrote:
> > ___________________________________
> > Extract from /var/maillog
> > Apr 20 08:24:58 dns1 Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.
> > Mailman
> > expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group "nobody",
> > but the
> > system's mail server executed the mail script as group "mailman".  Try
> > tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "nobody", or re-
> > run
> > configure,  providing the command line option `--with-mail-
> > gid=mailman'.
>
> This is the third and final time I'll ask you give a long directory
> listing of your mailman/data directory.  (Twice here and once on the
> FreeBSD list).
I'm sorry -- I did in fact try to send it but mailman trashed my mail system 
and I lost the thread.

Here it is

-rw-r-----  1 root     mailman     41 Apr 16 07:51 adm.pw
-rw-rw----  1 root     mailman   4364 Apr 20 06:39 aliases
-rw-rw----  1 mailman  mailman  16384 Apr 20 06:39 aliases.db
-rw-r-----  1 root     mailman     41 Apr 16 07:52 creator.pw
-rw-r--r--  1 root     mailman     10 Apr 20 07:11 last_mailman_version
-rw-rw----  1 mailman  mailman      5 Apr 20 02:49 master-qrunner.pid
-rw-r--r--  1 root     mailman  14114 Apr 20 07:11 sitelist.cfg
-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman  mailman      0 Apr 17 09:52 virtual-aliases
-rw-rw----  1 www      mailman   2275 Apr 20 06:39 virtual-mailman
-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman  mailman  16384 Apr 20 06:39 virtual-mailman.db

>

>
> I recently set up mailman on a system extremely similar to yours
> (FreeBSD 6.*, postfix).  And I've been a long time user of mailman
> (although with sendmail and exim).  I really am in a good position to
> help, but I might have to leave it to people with more patience.

You have been great

OK ask away for any further info you need.
>
> Please see my previous post
>
>   http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/msg44296.html
>
> where I ask for this information and ask a series of yes or no
> questions.
>
> > I have tried to rebuild mailman BUT the configuration option screen
> > does not
> > appear. I have tried
> > # make with-mail-gid=mailman
> > but still get the same results
> > #./configure --with-mail-gid=mailman
> > is not available
>
> If you wish to override this when doing the build from BSD ports then
> you would use
>
>   make -DMAIL_GID=mailman reinstall
>
> However, I STRONGLY advise against that.  It is best to keep things
> as close to the default settings as possible.
>
> I do think that these problems are better served by doing the
> appropriate chown on the mailman/data directory instead of tinkering
> with the build which would probably lead to harder to diagnose problems.
>
> -j



From david at vizion2000.net  Fri Apr 20 20:44:14 2007
From: david at vizion2000.net (David Southwell)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 11:44:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman GID problem
In-Reply-To: <CA436D2A-08D1-4CC9-B300-7FF4E7F929F0@goldmark.org>
References: <200704200842.48793.david@vizion2000.net>
	<CA436D2A-08D1-4CC9-B300-7FF4E7F929F0@goldmark.org>
Message-ID: <200704201144.14617.david@vizion2000.net>

On Friday 20 April 2007 09:38:03 Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:
> chown -R nobody:mailman /usr/local/mailman/data

Here is what happens if I do that command:

[root at dns1 /usr/local/mailman/data]# ls -l
total 64
-rw-r-----  1 root     mailman     41 Apr 16 07:51 adm.pw
-rw-rw----  1 root     mailman   4364 Apr 20 06:39 aliases
-rw-rw----  1 mailman  mailman  16384 Apr 20 06:39 aliases.db
-rw-r-----  1 root     mailman     41 Apr 16 07:52 creator.pw
-rw-r--r--  1 root     mailman     10 Apr 20 07:11 last_mailman_version
-rw-rw----  1 mailman  mailman      5 Apr 20 02:49 master-qrunner.pid
-rw-r--r--  1 root     mailman  14114 Apr 20 07:11 sitelist.cfg
-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman  mailman      0 Apr 17 09:52 virtual-aliases
-rw-rw----  1 www      mailman   2275 Apr 20 06:39 virtual-mailman
-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman  mailman  16384 Apr 20 06:39 virtual-mailman.db
[root at dns1 /usr/local/mailman/data]# chown -R 
nobody:mailman /usr/local/mailman/data
[root at dns1 /usr/local/mailman/data]# ls -l
total 64
-rw-r-----  1 nobody  mailman     41 Apr 16 07:51 adm.pw
-rw-rw----  1 nobody  mailman   4364 Apr 20 06:39 aliases
-rw-rw----  1 nobody  mailman  16384 Apr 20 06:39 aliases.db
-rw-r-----  1 nobody  mailman     41 Apr 16 07:52 creator.pw
-rw-r--r--  1 nobody  mailman     10 Apr 20 07:11 last_mailman_version
-rw-rw----  1 nobody  mailman      5 Apr 20 02:49 master-qrunner.pid
-rw-r--r--  1 nobody  mailman  14114 Apr 20 07:11 sitelist.cfg
-rw-rw-r--  1 nobody  mailman      0 Apr 17 09:52 virtual-aliases
-rw-rw----  1 nobody  mailman   2275 Apr 20 06:39 virtual-mailman
-rw-rw-r--  1 nobody  mailman  16384 Apr 20 06:39 virtual-mailman.db
[root at dns1 /usr/local/mailman/data]# cd ..
[root at dns1 /usr/local/mailman]# ls -l
total 36
drwxrwsr-x  11 root    mailman  1536 Apr 20 07:11 Mailman
drwxrwsr-x   4 root    mailman   512 Apr 16 07:07 archives
drwxrwsr-x   2 root    mailman  1024 Apr 20 07:11 bin
drwxrwsr-x   2 root    mailman   512 Apr 20 07:11 cgi-bin
drwxrwsr-x   2 root    mailman   512 Apr 20 07:11 cron
drwxrwsr-x   2 nobody  mailman  2048 Apr 20 08:24 data
drwxrwsr-x   2 root    mailman   512 Apr 20 07:11 icons
drwxrwsr-x   7 root    mailman   512 Apr 20 06:39 lists
drwxrwsr-x   2 root    mailman   512 Apr 20 11:40 locks
drwxrwsr-x   2 root    mailman   512 Apr 20 07:20 logs
drwxrwsr-x   2 root    mailman   512 Apr 20 07:11 mail
drwxrwsr-x  34 root    mailman   512 Apr 20 07:11 messages
drwxrwsr-x   6 root    mailman   512 Apr 20 07:11 pythonlib
drwxrwsr-x  11 root    mailman   512 Apr 20 02:49 qfiles
drwxrwsr-x   2 root    mailman   512 Apr 20 07:11 scripts
drwxrwsr-x   2 root    mailman   512 Apr 20 07:11 spam
drwxrwsr-x  35 root    mailman   512 Apr 20 07:11 templates
drwxrwsr-x   4 root    mailman   512 Apr 20 07:11 tests
[root at dns1 /usr/local/mailman]# postfix reload
postfix/postfix-script: refreshing the Postfix mail system
[root at dns1 /usr/local/mailman]# bin/check_perms
/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases.db owned by nobody (must be owned by mailman
/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman.db owned by nobody (must be owned by 
mailman
Problems found: 2
Re-run as mailman (or root) with -f flag to fix
[root at dns1 /usr/local/mailman]# 

David

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 20 20:35:05 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 11:35:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalization [was: mailman post mail to
	listerror]
In-Reply-To: <4628F6E9.2000306@szalbot.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <PC176020070420113505000087fcc3a5@msapiro>

zs wrote:
>
>Mark Sapiro pisze:
>>
>> Set 
>>
>> OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
>>
>> in mm_cfg.py. Then go to the admin Non-digest options page and set
>> personalize to Yes or Full as desired and set msg_header and/or
>> msg_footer as desired. See the "Details for ..." links for a list of
>> allowable replacements.
>>   
>And restart mailman for the changes to take effect. At least I think you 
>need to do it.


I don't think you do in this case. Of course, it never hurts to restart
mailman after changing mm_cfg.py (unless you made a mistake, but still
better to find it now), and often it is required, but it is only
necessary if the things you changed affect mail processing.

The web CGIs are loaded each time they are used so they always read the
current mm_cfg.py. Also, the list configuration is loaded each time it
is used, so if you are only changing things that affect the web UI and
then changing list settings via the web UI, you don't need to restart
Mailman.


>There's a setting to limit the number of emails mailman passes to a 
>mailserver in one go. I don't remember it off hand, though.


I think you are thinking of SMTP_MAX_RCPTS which controls the maximum
number of recipients (RCPT commands) for one SMTP transaction from
Mailman. This has no effect for a personalized list since if the list
is personalized, the post is sent to each member in a separate
transaction since the message is personalized - i.e., each SMTP
transaction has exactly one recipient.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Fri Apr 20 20:36:41 2007
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 13:36:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman gid problem
In-Reply-To: <200704201138.48756.david@vizion2000.net>
References: <200704200841.53857.david@vizion2000.net>
	<A30D315C-EAD9-49CB-9CCA-D7571EAAF728@goldmark.org>
	<200704201138.48756.david@vizion2000.net>
Message-ID: <E4AA8E8B-0CF9-4216-BA60-0D49DB17C4D3@goldmark.org>

[I'm adding ports at freebsd.org to the cc in the hopes of making it  
easier for everyone following this discussion to follow it.]

On Apr 20, 2007, at 1:38 PM, David Southwell wrote:

> I'm sorry -- I did in fact try to send it but mailman trashed my  
> mail system
> and I lost the thread.

OK, thanks.

>
> Here it is
>
> -rw-r-----  1 root     mailman     41 Apr 16 07:51 adm.pw
> -rw-rw----  1 root     mailman   4364 Apr 20 06:39 aliases
> -rw-rw----  1 mailman  mailman  16384 Apr 20 06:39 aliases.db
> -rw-r-----  1 root     mailman     41 Apr 16 07:52 creator.pw
> -rw-r--r--  1 root     mailman     10 Apr 20 07:11  
> last_mailman_version
> -rw-rw----  1 mailman  mailman      5 Apr 20 02:49 master-qrunner.pid
> -rw-r--r--  1 root     mailman  14114 Apr 20 07:11 sitelist.cfg
> -rw-rw-r--  1 mailman  mailman      0 Apr 17 09:52 virtual-aliases
> -rw-rw----  1 www      mailman   2275 Apr 20 06:39 virtual-mailman
> -rw-rw-r--  1 mailman  mailman  16384 Apr 20 06:39 virtual-mailman.db

OK, the aliases files need to be owned by "nobody" so

  chown nobody aliases* virtual-aliases* virtual-mailman*

will fix that.  When new files are added, we want them to be owned by  
"nobody" so also do a

  chown nobody /usr/local/mailman/data

Those chown's will have to be done as root.

Cheers,

-j


-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From crey at cnri.reston.va.us  Fri Apr 20 20:23:50 2007
From: crey at cnri.reston.va.us (Catherine Rey)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 14:23:50 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server Error When Using admindb Web Page
Message-ID: <46290536.60203@cnri.reston.va.us>

I have a list set to hold all incoming messages. I am getting 100+ spam 
messages per day.  When using the web page to update the database to 
remove them from the queue, I get back (after a long delay) an Internal 
Server Error 500 from Apache instead of the web page telling me the 
database has been updated.  After getting the Server Error and 
requesting the admindb page again, it shows that all messages have been 
deleted, so they are being removed from the queue.  This doesn't happen 
when the queue contains only 40 - 45 messages or less -- only when the 
queue is larger than that.

Any comments on the cause or the fix will be appreciated.

Catherine Rey
Corporation for National Research Initiatives
crey at cnri.reston.va.us


From zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org  Fri Apr 20 20:45:39 2007
From: zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org (Zbigniew Szalbot)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 20:45:39 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalization [was: mailman post mail to
	listerror]
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070420113505000087fcc3a5@msapiro>
References: <PC176020070420113505000087fcc3a5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <46290A53.8010600@szalbot.homedns.org>

Dear Mark,

Thanks for correcting me!


>> There's a setting to limit the number of emails mailman passes to a 
>> mailserver in one go. I don't remember it off hand, though.
>>     
>
> I think you are thinking of SMTP_MAX_RCPTS which controls the maximum
> number of recipients (RCPT commands) for one SMTP transaction from
> Mailman. This has no effect for a personalized list since if the list
> is personalized, the post is sent to each member in a separate
> transaction since the message is personalized - i.e., each SMTP
> transaction has exactly one recipient.
>   
But isn't there a setting you can use to limit how many emails are 
passed to MTA before mailman pauses a bit? I know I am not really using 
technical jargon here but I thought there was a way to control how fast 
emails are passed to an MTA.


Thanks!

Zbigniew Szalbot

From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Fri Apr 20 20:51:07 2007
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 13:51:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman GID problem
In-Reply-To: <200704201144.14617.david@vizion2000.net>
References: <200704200842.48793.david@vizion2000.net>
	<CA436D2A-08D1-4CC9-B300-7FF4E7F929F0@goldmark.org>
	<200704201144.14617.david@vizion2000.net>
Message-ID: <1598419F-7ABB-42F0-8895-1807421E0BE6@goldmark.org>

On Apr 20, 2007, at 1:44 PM, David Southwell wrote:

> On Friday 20 April 2007 09:38:03 Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:
>> chown -R nobody:mailman /usr/local/mailman/data
>
> Here is what happens if I do that command:
>
> [root at dns1 /usr/local/mailman]# bin/check_perms
> /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases.db owned by nobody (must be owned  
> by mailman
> /usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman.db owned by nobody (must be  
> owned by
> mailman
> Problems found: 2
> Re-run as mailman (or root) with -f flag to fix
> [root at dns1 /usr/local/mailman]#

Hmmm.  Now that I check, I get the same warning.  However, my system  
does work with owners and permissions like this

Still, I guess this isn't a proper solution to the problem since the  
next time we run

   bin/check_perms -f

we will actually break things on our systems.

Maybe the correct solution is use owner "mailman" and MAIL_GID as  
"mailman", which means a simple fix to the mailman ports Makefile.

In which case, your attempt to recompile with mailman as the GID  
would have been the right approach.

The way to reset the OPTIONS for a FreeBSD port is to run

   make config

in the port directory.  But the MAIL_GID is not among the options  
settable that way.

I believe that if you use

   make -DMAIL_GID=mailman reinstall

then that will pass the correct option to the configure script that  
comes with mailman.

Cheers,

-j

-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 20 21:00:32 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 12:00:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalization [was: mailman post mail to
	listerror]
In-Reply-To: <46290A53.8010600@szalbot.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704201200320218fa36d87a@msapiro>

Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:
>>   
>But isn't there a setting you can use to limit how many emails are 
>passed to MTA before mailman pauses a bit? I know I am not really using 
>technical jargon here but I thought there was a way to control how fast 
>emails are passed to an MTA.


No. There is no such delay or throttling setting in Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From as.gozzi at vp44.net  Fri Apr 20 22:07:02 2007
From: as.gozzi at vp44.net (Andrea S. Gozzi)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 22:07:02 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Troubles with mailman+postfix
In-Reply-To: <4628A372.8070700@xcski.com>
References: <1177057468.18766.1.camel@osmosis>  <4628A372.8070700@xcski.com>
Message-ID: <1177099622.15168.4.camel@osmosis>

'relay_domains = lists.vp44.net' fixed it.

Andrea

On Fri, 2007-04-20 at 07:26 -0400, Paul Tomblin wrote:
> Andrea S. Gozzi wrote:
> > I'm currently running Postfix with SQL backend for virtual domains.
> > One of the domain owners wants to set up a mailing list and I decided to
> > go with Mailman (great web administration).
> > 
> > I installed Mailman and configured it (along with Postfix) following the
> > instructions here:
> > http://workaround.org/moin/PostfixTutorialContributions and everything
> > seems to work. I can create/delete/manage mailing lists but now postfix
> > is unable to delivery any message.
> > 
> > Postfix is 'mail.vp44.net' and I added an A record for
> > 'lists.vp44.net' .
> > This came out in mail.warn:
> > 
> > 
> >> Apr 18 16:44:46 bnix postfix/smtp[9141]: warning: host
> >> lists.vp44.net[212.68.198.73]:25 greeted me with my own hostname
> >> mail.vp44.net
> >> Apr 18 16:44:46 bnix postfix/smtp[9141]: warning: host
> >> lists.vp44.net[212.68.198.73]:25 replied to HELO/EHLO with my own
> >> hostname mail.vp44.net
> > 
> 
> You need to add lists.vp44.net to virtual_alias_domains (if you're using 
> virtual alias domains) or to mydestination.
> 


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 20 21:12:15 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 12:12:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server Error When Using admindb Web Page
In-Reply-To: <46290536.60203@cnri.reston.va.us>
Message-ID: <PC17602007042012121507038511bbae@msapiro>

Catherine Rey wrote:

>I have a list set to hold all incoming messages. I am getting 100+ spam 
>messages per day.  When using the web page to update the database to 
>remove them from the queue, I get back (after a long delay) an Internal 
>Server Error 500 from Apache instead of the web page telling me the 
>database has been updated.  After getting the Server Error and 
>requesting the admindb page again, it shows that all messages have been 
>deleted, so they are being removed from the queue.  This doesn't happen 
>when the queue contains only 40 - 45 messages or less -- only when the 
>queue is larger than that.
>
>Any comments on the cause or the fix will be appreciated.


You need to check the Apache error_log to see more detail about what's
happening. I'm just guessing, but there is likely some Apache limit on
how long a CGI can run before Apache either kills it or gives up.

You also need to check Mailman's data/ directory to make sure that the
actual heldmsg-<listname>-*.pck message files were deleted along with
the entries in lists/<listname>/request.pck.

Again, my guess is that there is nothing wrong with Mailman per se. It
is just that apache is not giving the admindb CGI enough time to
finish when the number of held messages to be deleted is large.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From goldzwei at oswego.edu  Fri Apr 20 21:05:50 2007
From: goldzwei at oswego.edu (Andy Goldzweig)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 15:05:50 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing to list problems
Message-ID: <0A4B9F0B-4BA2-4F16-9003-AF0EA2AB03D4@oswego.edu>

I have a brand new box that I am using to setup mailman.  I've got  
solaris 10 and sendmail.  Mailman is installed and apache is  
configured.  I can create lists with newlist and then I add the lines  
to /etc/aliases.   View the admin pages for the list works.  When the  
list is created the owner is emailed correctly.  When a member is  
added they are emailed correctly.  When I send a message to the list  
the only place I get the message is locally on the box and not to  
names listed as members.

Both values are sent to the hostname of the box in Defaults.py
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'myhost.domain.edu'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'myhost.domain.edu'

I am using the stock sendmail.cf file

I can send mail using the Mail command to individuals but am failing  
when sending to the list.

#Mail mailman-test-list
Subject: test
test
.
EOT
# mailman-test-list... Connecting to [127.0.0.1] via relay...
220 myhost.domain.edu ESMTP Sendmail 8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8; Fri, 20 Apr  
2007 14:54:46 -0400 (EDT)
 >>> EHLO myhost.domain.edu
250-myhost.domain.edu Hello localhost [127.0.0.1], pleased to meet you
250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
250-PIPELINING
250-EXPN
250-VERB
250-8BITMIME
250-SIZE
250-DSN
250-ETRN
250-DELIVERBY
250 HELP
 >>> VERB
250 2.0.0 Verbose mode
 >>> MAIL From:<goldzwei at myhost.domain.edu> SIZE=60
250 2.1.0 <goldzwei at myhost.domain.edu>... Sender ok
 >>> RCPT To:<mailman-test-list at myhost.domain.edu>
 >>> DATA
050 <mailman-test-list at myhost.domain.edu>... aliased to "|/export/ 
mailman/mail/mailman post mailman-test-list"
250 2.1.5 <mailman-test-list at myhost.domain.edu>... Recipient ok
354 Enter mail, end with "." on a line by itself
 >>> .
050 "|/export/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman-test-list"...  
Connecting to prog...
050 <goldzwei at myhost.domain.edu>... Connecting to local...
050 220 myhost LMTP ready
050 >>> LHLO myhost.domain.edu
050 250-myhost
050 250-8BITMIME
050 250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
050 250 PIPELINING
050 >>> MAIL From:<>
050 250 2.5.0 ok
050 >>> RCPT To:<goldzwei>
050 >>> DATA
050 250 2.1.5 ok
050 354 go ahead
050 >>> .
050 250 2.1.5 goldzwei OK
050 <goldzwei at myhost.domain.edu>... Sent
250 2.0.0 l3KIsk2L008903 Message accepted for delivery
mailman-test-list... Sent (l3KIsk2L008903 Message accepted for delivery)
Closing connection to [127.0.0.1]
 >>> QUIT


Andy Goldzweig
Academic Systems Programmer
Campus Technology Services
SUNY Oswego
7a Snygg Hall
315-312-2826
goldzwei at oswego.edu



From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Fri Apr 20 21:23:14 2007
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 14:23:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman GID problem
In-Reply-To: <94592079D5FE1208BC6F7D03@utd59514.utdallas.edu>
References: <200704200842.48793.david@vizion2000.net>
	<CA436D2A-08D1-4CC9-B300-7FF4E7F929F0@goldmark.org>
	<94592079D5FE1208BC6F7D03@utd59514.utdallas.edu>
Message-ID: <F7A906EA-FA63-42C2-8E42-20F0B575A810@goldmark.org>

On Apr 20, 2007, at 1:44 PM, Paul Schmehl wrote:

> *If* what you say is true [...]

which I am increasingly doubtful of.

> then this should fix it:
>
> --- pkg-install.orig    Fri Apr 20 13:42:17 2007
> +++ pkg-install Fri Apr 20 13:42:47 2007
> @@ -43,6 +43,7 @@
>     (umask 002 && /bin/mkdir -p "%%MAILMANDIR%%") || exit 1
>     /usr/sbin/chown -R "%%USER%%:%%GROUP%%" "%%MAILMANDIR%%" || exit 1
>     /bin/chmod g+s "%%MAILMANDIR%%" || exit 1
> +    /usr/sbin/chown -R "nobody" "%%MAILMANDIR%%/data" || exit 1
>   fi
>   ;;

Can you tell me where to find the unprocessed version of pkg- 
install?  What is in work/ has already been processed by sed, and I  
didn't see anything obvious in files/

I know I should read the porters' handbook, but at this point I'm  
just poking around to try to get some sense of how the pieces come  
together.

I'm beginning to think that the fix will be as simple as

--- Makefile.orig       Fri Apr 20 14:17:08 2007
+++ Makefile    Fri Apr 20 14:18:14 2007
@@ -88,7 +88,7 @@
.if defined(WITH_SENDMAIL) || defined(WITH_EXIM3) || defined(WITH_EXIM4)
BROKEN=        choose only one MTA integration
.endif
-MAIL_GID?=     nobody
+MAIL_GID?=     mailman
.endif
.if defined(WITH_CHINESE)

But I haven't tested.  And I don't know what the original reason was  
for using "nobody", so I may very well be talking nonsense.

Cheers,

-j


-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 20 21:28:32 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 12:28:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing archives again
In-Reply-To: <ba5cdc4b0704201149j3b028c3aqd705ca91c4c43b83@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007042012283206254ebdfdd1@msapiro>

Ivan Van Laningham wrote:

>Hi All--
>This is very helpful.  What I have are basically three sets of archives.
>
>1)  Archives from the current list, fairly small and created about two
>months ago after a disastrous ISP debacle (the yo-yos got themselves
>_evicted_, for heaven's sake);
>
>2)  Archives from the previous host and list incarnation and a much
>earlier version--but still > 2.0--of Mailman;
>
>3)  Archives from the previous host, same list, but a version of
>Mailman that might have started with the digit one. ;-)  The person
>who upgraded Mailman in Feb 2002 didn't bother to import the existing
>archives, so now is the first time I've tried to import such old
>archives.
>
>I have successfully dealt with 1 and 2.  Appending the two mboxes
>works well, probably because there is a two-week gap between the two
>latest incarnations of the list.
>
>However, 3 is a problem.  I don't have an mbox for the earliest
>archives; instead, I have the text files--2002-February.txt,
>etc.--which appear to me to be in mbox format.


The .txt files are similar to .mbox files, but there are various
differences. Many headers have been removed and, most importantly,
email addresses may have been obscured by changing user at example.com to
user at example.com.


>If I run cleanarch on these text files before running arch on them,
>they do not appear in the archives.


Probably because cleanarch escapes all the "From " separators because
the email address has " at " instead of "@".


>If I skip cleanarch, then I get
>bad addresses in the posts in the archives (and yes, I did use the
>--wipe option).  The bad addresses look like the following in the
>index page:
>
>[Sangha] Anger and its expression   Ryunyokingryunyo at earthlink.net
>
>The address is supposed to be "ryunyo at earthlink.net".


No, it is supposed to be "ryunyo at earthlink.net".


>How can I preprocess the text files to fix the problem addresses?  I
>assume it's because the old text files have something like From:
>Ryunyo King<"ryunyo at earthlink.com"> in the from line.  Is there a
>secret option to cleanarch I didn't see?


cleanarch won't do this. You need to process the .txt files your self
with your own script or by hand to replace " at " with "@" in email
addresses before using cleanarch.

Obviously, you can't just globally replace " at " with "@" as there
will be many occurrences of " at " outside email addresses.

You might limit your self to "From " lines and From: headers. That will
probably work. You could also try to use some regexp that only matches
" at " if it looks like it's in an email address.


>(I also ended up with a slew of duplicates when the upgrade happened
>in Feb 2002; half the messages are right, the other half of the
>duplicate messages have addresses similar to the above.  But I'm
>pretty sure I can deal with those.)
>
>Thanks for all the help.
>
>Metta,
>Ivan

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 20 21:44:14 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 12:44:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing to list problems
In-Reply-To: <0A4B9F0B-4BA2-4F16-9003-AF0EA2AB03D4@oswego.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602007042012441402501d30e688@msapiro>

Andy Goldzweig wrote:

>I have a brand new box that I am using to setup mailman.  I've got  
>solaris 10 and sendmail.  Mailman is installed and apache is  
>configured.  I can create lists with newlist and then I add the lines  
>to /etc/aliases.   View the admin pages for the list works.  When the  
>list is created the owner is emailed correctly.  When a member is  
>added they are emailed correctly.  When I send a message to the list  
>the only place I get the message is locally on the box and not to  
>names listed as members.


I'm not clear on what you mean by "the only place I get the message is
locally on the box and not to names listed as members".

Do you mean the message is delivered to Mailman, but not sent out at
all, or do you mean the message is sent out to local users, but remote
users don't receive it? It seems you mean the former, but I'm not sure.


>I can send mail using the Mail command to individuals but am failing  
>when sending to the list.
>
>#Mail mailman-test-list
>Subject: test
>test
>.
>EOT


This message has no body. You need an empty line between

Subject: test

and

test


># mailman-test-list... Connecting to [127.0.0.1] via relay...
>220 myhost.domain.edu ESMTP Sendmail 8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8; Fri, 20 Apr  
>2007 14:54:46 -0400 (EDT)
> >>> EHLO myhost.domain.edu
>250-myhost.domain.edu Hello localhost [127.0.0.1], pleased to meet you
>250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
>250-PIPELINING
>250-EXPN
>250-VERB
>250-8BITMIME
>250-SIZE
>250-DSN
>250-ETRN
>250-DELIVERBY
>250 HELP
> >>> VERB
>250 2.0.0 Verbose mode
> >>> MAIL From:<goldzwei at myhost.domain.edu> SIZE=60
>250 2.1.0 <goldzwei at myhost.domain.edu>... Sender ok
> >>> RCPT To:<mailman-test-list at myhost.domain.edu>
> >>> DATA
>050 <mailman-test-list at myhost.domain.edu>... aliased to "|/export/ 
>mailman/mail/mailman post mailman-test-list"
>250 2.1.5 <mailman-test-list at myhost.domain.edu>... Recipient ok
>354 Enter mail, end with "." on a line by itself
> >>> .
>050 "|/export/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman-test-list"...  
>Connecting to prog...
>050 <goldzwei at myhost.domain.edu>... Connecting to local...
>050 220 myhost LMTP ready
>050 >>> LHLO myhost.domain.edu
>050 250-myhost
>050 250-8BITMIME
>050 250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
>050 250 PIPELINING
>050 >>> MAIL From:<>
>050 250 2.5.0 ok
>050 >>> RCPT To:<goldzwei>
>050 >>> DATA
>050 250 2.1.5 ok
>050 354 go ahead
>050 >>> .
>050 250 2.1.5 goldzwei OK
>050 <goldzwei at myhost.domain.edu>... Sent
>250 2.0.0 l3KIsk2L008903 Message accepted for delivery
>mailman-test-list... Sent (l3KIsk2L008903 Message accepted for delivery)
>Closing connection to [127.0.0.1]
> >>> QUIT


I'm not sure, but it looks like two messages above. The message to the
list which was delivered to the wrapper, and a message to you. What is
the message to you?

Check all of Mailman's logs for anything relevant.

Are there any candidate recipients of the message? I.e. is there a list
regular (not digest) member with delivery enabled who is not the
poster and who is not a direct addressee of the post?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From rhealy at whoi.edu  Fri Apr 20 21:43:45 2007
From: rhealy at whoi.edu (Richard Healy)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 15:43:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman receiving mail, but mail not going out.
In-Reply-To: <4629041C.1060302@whoi.edu>
References: <PC1760200704201000370609a975b0e6@msapiro>
	<4629041C.1060302@whoi.edu>
Message-ID: <462917F1.5000101@whoi.edu>

Richard Healy wrote:
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
>> To elaborate on the "installation is wrong" theory, if the mail wrapper
>> is built pointing to a scripts/ directory with a paths.py with a
>> 'prefix' different from the 'prefix' in the bin/ directory, this could
>> mess things up.
>>
>> I gather Mailman was working and stopped working. If this is the case,
>> did you change anything before it stopped?
>>
>> You could check for more that one scripts/ directory in different
>> places or check to see that scripts/paths.py is the same as
>> bin/paths.py?
>>
>> Does the web interface work?
>>
>> Can Mailman send mail, e.g. if you subscribe someone via the web, do
>> the notifications/confirmations get sent?
>>
> 
> Apr 20 14:06:48 cuttyhunk sendmail[13390]: l3KI6mg8013390: 
> from=<rjh at cuttyhunk.nosams.whoi.edu>, size=389, class=0, nrcpts=1, 
> msgid=<200704201806.l3KI6ma0013389 at cuttyhunk.nosams.whoi.edu>, proto=ESMTP, 
> daemon=MTA, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
> Apr 20 14:06:48 cuttyhunk sendmail[13389]: l3KI6ma0013389: 
> to=test_mail at cuttyhunk, ctladdr=rjh (500/500), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, 
> mailer=relay, pri=30058, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent 
> (l3KI6mg8013390 Message accepted for delivery)
> Apr 20 14:06:48 cuttyhunk Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.  Mailman 
> expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman other mail 
> daemon", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group "mail". 
>   Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "mailman other mail 
> daemon", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option 
> `--with-mail-gid=mail'.
> Apr 20 14:06:48 cuttyhunk sendmail[13391]: l3KI6mg8013390: 
> to="|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test_mail", 
> ctladdr=<test_mail at cuttyhunk.nosams.whoi.edu> (8/0), delay=00:00:00, 
> xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=30637, dsn=5.3.0, stat=unknown mailer error 2
> Apr 20 14:06:48 cuttyhunk sendmail[13391]: l3KI6mg8013390: l3KI6mg8013391: DSN: 
> unknown mailer error 2
> Apr 20 14:06:48 cuttyhunk sendmail[13391]: l3KI6mg8013391: to=rhealy at whoi.edu, 
> delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=esmtp, pri=31661, 
> relay=tassadar.whoi.edu. [128.128.76.63], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (Ok: queued as 
> B8CC8162B27)
> 
> Why does the mailman expect the group to be "mailman other mail daemon"?  Sounds 
> like it should be one of the four but is expecting the group name to actually be 
> "mailman other mail daemon".  I guess I can rerun the installation as it suggests.
> 
> -Rick
> 


Problem solved after recompiling with --with-mail-gid=mail, fixing links. Now 
receiving mail.

-Rick


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Apr 20 21:41:55 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 14:41:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalization [was: mailman post mail to
 listerror]
In-Reply-To: <46290A53.8010600@szalbot.homedns.org>
References: <PC176020070420113505000087fcc3a5@msapiro>
	<46290A53.8010600@szalbot.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <p06240500c24ec7dcacb4@[10.0.1.199]>

At 8:45 PM +0200 4/20/07, Zbigniew Szalbot wrote:

>  But isn't there a setting you can use to limit how many emails are passed
>  to MTA before mailman pauses a bit?

Mailman doesn't pause, at least not intentionally.

>                                      I know I am not really using technical
>  jargon here but I thought there was a way to control how fast emails are
>  passed to an MTA.

See FAQ 4.51.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From goldzwei at oswego.edu  Fri Apr 20 22:02:44 2007
From: goldzwei at oswego.edu (Andy Goldzweig)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 16:02:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing to list problems
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007042012441402501d30e688@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007042012441402501d30e688@msapiro>
Message-ID: <B34573DC-E1A2-4F26-9FE4-FD1BD034A8F5@oswego.edu>

Sorry for the confusion.  I'm not well versed with mail and that is  
certainly showing in my question.

Andy Goldzweig
Academic Systems Programmer
Campus Technology Services
SUNY Oswego
7a Snygg Hall
315-312-2826
goldzwei at oswego.edu


On Apr 20, 2007, at 3:44 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Andy Goldzweig wrote:
>
>> I have a brand new box that I am using to setup mailman.  I've got
>> solaris 10 and sendmail.  Mailman is installed and apache is
>> configured.  I can create lists with newlist and then I add the lines
>> to /etc/aliases.   View the admin pages for the list works.  When the
>> list is created the owner is emailed correctly.  When a member is
>> added they are emailed correctly.  When I send a message to the list
>> the only place I get the message is locally on the box and not to
>> names listed as members.
>
>
> I'm not clear on what you mean by "the only place I get the message is
> locally on the box and not to names listed as members".
>
> Do you mean the message is delivered to Mailman, but not sent out at
> all, or do you mean the message is sent out to local users, but remote
> users don't receive it? It seems you mean the former, but I'm not  
> sure.

What I mean is that I put myself as a member goldzwei at domain.edu

And I am sending the mail as root from the box I am on to the list.   
But the only mail I see show up is to goldzwei at myhost.domain.edu


>
>
>> I can send mail using the Mail command to individuals but am failing
>> when sending to the list.
>>
>> #Mail mailman-test-list
>> Subject: test
>> test
>> .
>> EOT
>
>
> This message has no body. You need an empty line between
>
> Subject: test
>
> and
>
> test
>

I tried that and got the same output.
>
>> # mailman-test-list... Connecting to [127.0.0.1] via relay...
>> 220 myhost.domain.edu ESMTP Sendmail 8.13.8+Sun/8.13.8; Fri, 20 Apr
>> 2007 14:54:46 -0400 (EDT)
>>>>> EHLO myhost.domain.edu
>> 250-myhost.domain.edu Hello localhost [127.0.0.1], pleased to meet  
>> you
>> 250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
>> 250-PIPELINING
>> 250-EXPN
>> 250-VERB
>> 250-8BITMIME
>> 250-SIZE
>> 250-DSN
>> 250-ETRN
>> 250-DELIVERBY
>> 250 HELP
>>>>> VERB
>> 250 2.0.0 Verbose mode
>>>>> MAIL From:<goldzwei at myhost.domain.edu> SIZE=60
>> 250 2.1.0 <goldzwei at myhost.domain.edu>... Sender ok
>>>>> RCPT To:<mailman-test-list at myhost.domain.edu>
>>>>> DATA
>> 050 <mailman-test-list at myhost.domain.edu>... aliased to "|/export/
>> mailman/mail/mailman post mailman-test-list"
>> 250 2.1.5 <mailman-test-list at myhost.domain.edu>... Recipient ok
>> 354 Enter mail, end with "." on a line by itself
>>>>> .
>> 050 "|/export/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman-test-list"...
>> Connecting to prog...
>> 050 <goldzwei at myhost.domain.edu>... Connecting to local...
>> 050 220 myhost LMTP ready
>> 050 >>> LHLO myhost.domain.edu
>> 050 250-myhost
>> 050 250-8BITMIME
>> 050 250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
>> 050 250 PIPELINING
>> 050 >>> MAIL From:<>
>> 050 250 2.5.0 ok
>> 050 >>> RCPT To:<goldzwei>
>> 050 >>> DATA
>> 050 250 2.1.5 ok
>> 050 354 go ahead
>> 050 >>> .
>> 050 250 2.1.5 goldzwei OK
>> 050 <goldzwei at myhost.domain.edu>... Sent
>> 250 2.0.0 l3KIsk2L008903 Message accepted for delivery
>> mailman-test-list... Sent (l3KIsk2L008903 Message accepted for  
>> delivery)
>> Closing connection to [127.0.0.1]
>>>>> QUIT
>
>
> I'm not sure, but it looks like two messages above. The message to the
> list which was delivered to the wrapper, and a message to you. What is
> the message to you?

That is where I am stuck.  Why is it sending a message to my local  
account when that user is not on the list.

>
> Check all of Mailman's logs for anything relevant.

error log is empty
smtp show the emails when the list is created and when users are added

>
> Are there any candidate recipients of the message? I.e. is there a  
> list
> regular (not digest) member with delivery enabled who is not the
> poster and who is not a direct addressee of the post?

I didn't make any changes to the list.  I created it with newlist and  
used my @domain.edu address as the owner

>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>


From ivanlan at pauahtun.org  Fri Apr 20 22:05:16 2007
From: ivanlan at pauahtun.org (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 14:05:16 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing archives again
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007042012283206254ebdfdd1@msapiro>
References: <ba5cdc4b0704201149j3b028c3aqd705ca91c4c43b83@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602007042012283206254ebdfdd1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <ba5cdc4b0704201305x4bc71fefmf4219deb1fc1eca1@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All--
Mark writes:

>
> >
> >[Sangha] Anger and its expression   Ryunyokingryunyo at earthlink.net
> >
> >The address is supposed to be "ryunyo at earthlink.net".
>
>
> No, it is supposed to be "ryunyo at earthlink.net".
>

Not exactly.  On the index pages for the archives, index lines take
one of two forms:

# [Sangha] Welcome Home   mag at swcp.com

or

# [Sangha] Welcome Home   Pat Stacy

Nowhere are @ signs supposed to be used in the archives.  Or at least
in the version of Mailman I'm using and the way I've got it set up.

I looked at .txt files produced by the new list and compared them with
the old .txt files I've got.

>From lines from new .txt file:
>>>
>From erstad at nilsandreas.info  Thu Feb  1 01:01:49 2007
From: erstad at nilsandreas.info (Nils Andreas Erstad)
<<<

>From lines from an old .txt file:
>>>
>From ivanlan at home.com Mon, 31 Jul 2000 23:34:46 -0600
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 23:34:46 -0600
From: Ivan Van Laningham ivanlan at home.com
<<<

>From lines from existing mbox file:
>>>
>From ivanlan at pauahtun.org Wed Feb 28 01:40:24 2007
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:38:34 -0700
From: Ivan Van Laningham <ivanlan at pauahtun.org>
<<<
<<<

The difference appears to be in the address on the From: line:  that
is, "Ivan Van Laningham ivanlan at home.com" fails but "Ivan Van
Laningham <ivanlan at pauahtun.org>"

If that's correct, I can modify those lines easily.

Metta,
Ivan



On 4/20/07, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Ivan Van Laningham wrote:
>
> >Hi All--
> >This is very helpful.  What I have are basically three sets of archives.
> >
> >1)  Archives from the current list, fairly small and created about two
> >months ago after a disastrous ISP debacle (the yo-yos got themselves
> >_evicted_, for heaven's sake);
> >
> >2)  Archives from the previous host and list incarnation and a much
> >earlier version--but still > 2.0--of Mailman;
> >
> >3)  Archives from the previous host, same list, but a version of
> >Mailman that might have started with the digit one. ;-)  The person
> >who upgraded Mailman in Feb 2002 didn't bother to import the existing
> >archives, so now is the first time I've tried to import such old
> >archives.
> >
> >I have successfully dealt with 1 and 2.  Appending the two mboxes
> >works well, probably because there is a two-week gap between the two
> >latest incarnations of the list.
> >
> >However, 3 is a problem.  I don't have an mbox for the earliest
> >archives; instead, I have the text files--2002-February.txt,
> >etc.--which appear to me to be in mbox format.
>
>
> The .txt files are similar to .mbox files, but there are various
> differences. Many headers have been removed and, most importantly,
> email addresses may have been obscured by changing user at example.com to
> user at example.com.
>
>
> >If I run cleanarch on these text files before running arch on them,
> >they do not appear in the archives.
>
>
> Probably because cleanarch escapes all the "From " separators because
> the email address has " at " instead of "@".
>
>
> >If I skip cleanarch, then I get
> >bad addresses in the posts in the archives (and yes, I did use the
> >--wipe option).  The bad addresses look like the following in the
> >index page:
> >
> >[Sangha] Anger and its expression   Ryunyokingryunyo at earthlink.net
> >
> >The address is supposed to be "ryunyo at earthlink.net".
>
>
> No, it is supposed to be "ryunyo at earthlink.net".
>
>
> >How can I preprocess the text files to fix the problem addresses?  I
> >assume it's because the old text files have something like From:
> >Ryunyo King<"ryunyo at earthlink.com"> in the from line.  Is there a
> >secret option to cleanarch I didn't see?
>
>
> cleanarch won't do this. You need to process the .txt files your self
> with your own script or by hand to replace " at " with "@" in email
> addresses before using cleanarch.
>
> Obviously, you can't just globally replace " at " with "@" as there
> will be many occurrences of " at " outside email addresses.
>
> You might limit your self to "From " lines and From: headers. That will
> probably work. You could also try to use some regexp that only matches
> " at " if it looks like it's in an email address.
>
>
> >(I also ended up with a slew of duplicates when the upgrade happened
> >in Feb 2002; half the messages are right, the other half of the
> >duplicate messages have addresses similar to the above.  But I'm
> >pretty sure I can deal with those.)
> >
> >Thanks for all the help.
> >
> >Metta,
> >Ivan
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ivanlan9%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


-- 
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.pauahtun.org/
http://www.python.org/workshops/1998-11/proceedings/papers/laningham/laningham.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Apr 20 22:25:58 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 15:25:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing archives again
In-Reply-To: <ba5cdc4b0704201305x4bc71fefmf4219deb1fc1eca1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ba5cdc4b0704201149j3b028c3aqd705ca91c4c43b83@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602007042012283206254ebdfdd1@msapiro>
	<ba5cdc4b0704201305x4bc71fefmf4219deb1fc1eca1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240502c24ed1d202a9@[10.0.1.199]>

At 2:05 PM -0600 4/20/07, Ivan Van Laningham wrote:

>  Nowhere are @ signs supposed to be used in the archives.  Or at least
>  in the version of Mailman I'm using and the way I've got it set up.

The .txt files are the text version of the "cooked" archives.  They 
are not in "raw" mbox format.  The format is close to that of a "raw" 
mbox, and it wouldn't take too much work to turn them back into a 
"raw" mbox format file.  However, a lot of headers and other 
information will have been thrown away.

If at all possible, when you're working with archives and you want to 
import or regenerate them, you always want to work from the original 
"raw" mbox format files.  That way you minimize the amount of 
information that might accidentally be lost.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From americasroof.49613477 at bloglines.com  Fri Apr 20 22:32:02 2007
From: americasroof.49613477 at bloglines.com (americasroof.49613477 at bloglines.com)
Date: 20 Apr 2007 20:32:02 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman List Address as Part of Another
	MailmanList on Same Server?
Message-ID: <1177101122.13976387.12213.sendItem@bloglines.com>

Thanks for the amazingingly fast response.  I was kind of hoping I could do
it through the online interface as running code is probably beyond me.  Thanks
again.

--- Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net wrote:
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.069.htp>

> and
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-February/055687.html>

> for more information.


From ivanlan at pauahtun.org  Fri Apr 20 22:42:22 2007
From: ivanlan at pauahtun.org (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 14:42:22 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing archives again
In-Reply-To: <p06240502c24ed1d202a9@10.0.1.199>
References: <ba5cdc4b0704201149j3b028c3aqd705ca91c4c43b83@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17602007042012283206254ebdfdd1@msapiro>
	<ba5cdc4b0704201305x4bc71fefmf4219deb1fc1eca1@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240502c24ed1d202a9@10.0.1.199>
Message-ID: <ba5cdc4b0704201342i586a2befsec6960ffdfe9524c@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All--

On 4/20/07, Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:
> At 2:05 PM -0600 4/20/07, Ivan Van Laningham wrote:
>
> The .txt files are the text version of the "cooked" archives.  They
> are not in "raw" mbox format.  The format is close to that of a "raw"
> mbox, and it wouldn't take too much work to turn them back into a
> "raw" mbox format file.  However, a lot of headers and other
> information will have been thrown away.
>

I realize that.  However, the person who upgraded from an early
version of Mailman to an early version of Mailman 2 failed to keep the
raw mboxen.

> If at all possible, when you're working with archives and you want to
> import or regenerate them, you always want to work from the original
> "raw" mbox format files.  That way you minimize the amount of
> information that might accidentally be lost.
>

It would have been nice, yes, but sadly it is not possible to recover
the mbox files from five years ago.  For one thing, the server they
were on has been completely trashed (as in sent to the recyclers).

I'll be happy to simply retrieve the text and whatever headers that I
can.  I've actually been able to do that, although the recovered early
archives have really sucky headers.  What I've got right now is a vast
improvement over nothing at all.  But if I can make it better without
risking archive loss I'd like to.

Metta,
Ivan
-- 
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.pauahtun.org/
http://www.python.org/workshops/1998-11/proceedings/papers/laningham/laningham.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Apr 21 00:10:24 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 15:10:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman receiving mail, but mail not going out.
In-Reply-To: <462917F1.5000101@whoi.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020070420151024021823d11472@msapiro>

Richard Healy wrote:

>Richard Healy wrote:
>> 
>> Apr 20 14:06:48 cuttyhunk Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.  Mailman 
>> expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman other mail 
>> daemon", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group "mail". 
>>   Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "mailman other mail 
>> daemon", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option 
>> `--with-mail-gid=mail'.
<snip>
>> 
>> Why does the mailman expect the group to be "mailman other mail daemon"?  Sounds 
>> like it should be one of the four but is expecting the group name to actually be 
>> "mailman other mail daemon".  I guess I can rerun the installation as it suggests.


This list of four groups is the default list used by configure if no
--with-mail-gid= is specified to configure. What is supposed to happen
is the first one of these group names that is actually found as a
registered group on the machine is the one that is used. If however,
the --without-permcheck option is given to configure and none of the
four groups exists at configure time, the whole list is passed to the
wrapper at compile time instead of a single group and this results in
the above error.


>Problem solved after recompiling with --with-mail-gid=mail, fixing links. Now 
>receiving mail.


Good.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Apr 21 00:27:10 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 15:27:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing archives again
In-Reply-To: <ba5cdc4b0704201305x4bc71fefmf4219deb1fc1eca1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704201527100656cf45c45a@msapiro>

Ivan Van Laningham wrote:

>Mark writes:
>> >
>> >The address is supposed to be "ryunyo at earthlink.net".
>>
>>
>> No, it is supposed to be "ryunyo at earthlink.net".
>>
>
>Not exactly.  On the index pages for the archives, index lines take
>one of two forms:
>
># [Sangha] Welcome Home   mag at swcp.com
>
>or
>
># [Sangha] Welcome Home   Pat Stacy
>
>Nowhere are @ signs supposed to be used in the archives.  Or at least
>in the version of Mailman I'm using and the way I've got it set up.


You are missing my point. The address has been munged by archiving for
the .txt file, but the address in the .mbox file is not a munged
address. It is the original address with "@".

What you are trying to do is recreate a .mbox file from the .txt files.
Thus you must unmung the address.



>I looked at .txt files produced by the new list and compared them with
>the old .txt files I've got.
>
>>From lines from new .txt file:
>>>>
>>From erstad at nilsandreas.info  Thu Feb  1 01:01:49 2007
>From: erstad at nilsandreas.info (Nils Andreas Erstad)


This is not acceptable for the .mbox input to bin/cleanarch and
bin/arch.


>>From lines from an old .txt file:
>>>>
>>From ivanlan at home.com Mon, 31 Jul 2000 23:34:46 -0600
>Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 23:34:46 -0600
>From: Ivan Van Laningham ivanlan at home.com


The "From " line is OK, but the From: header is not. It needs to be
either

From: Ivan Van Laningham <ivanlan at home.com>

or

From: (Ivan Van Laningham) ivanlan at home.com


>>From lines from existing mbox file:
>>>>
>>From ivanlan at pauahtun.org Wed Feb 28 01:40:24 2007
>Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:38:34 -0700
>From: Ivan Van Laningham <ivanlan at pauahtun.org>


Yes, this is how it should look.


>The difference appears to be in the address on the From: line:  that
>is, "Ivan Van Laningham ivanlan at home.com" fails but "Ivan Van
>Laningham <ivanlan at pauahtun.org>"
>
>If that's correct, I can modify those lines easily.


That's what you need to do.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Apr 21 00:37:50 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 15:37:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing to list problems
In-Reply-To: <B34573DC-E1A2-4F26-9FE4-FD1BD034A8F5@oswego.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704201537500796ba55ecce@msapiro>

Andy Goldzweig wrote:
>
>On Apr 20, 2007, at 3:44 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Andy Goldzweig wrote:
>>
>>> When I send a message to the list
>>> the only place I get the message is locally on the box and not to
>>> names listed as members.
>>
>>
>> I'm not clear on what you mean by "the only place I get the message is
>> locally on the box and not to names listed as members".
>>
>> Do you mean the message is delivered to Mailman, but not sent out at
>> all, or do you mean the message is sent out to local users, but remote
>> users don't receive it? It seems you mean the former, but I'm not  
>> sure.
>
>What I mean is that I put myself as a member goldzwei at domain.edu
>
>And I am sending the mail as root from the box I am on to the list.   
>But the only mail I see show up is to goldzwei at myhost.domain.edu


So perhaps what is happening is the message is being held for approval
because it is from a non-list member and a notice is being sent to the
list owner (you?)



>That is where I am stuck.  Why is it sending a message to my local  
>account when that user is not on the list.


Maybe because it is sending something back to the sender (root) and
that goes to you. Maybe because it is sending to the list-owner and
that is you.

What is the content of the message that it sends to you?


>> Check all of Mailman's logs for anything relevant.
>
>error log is empty
>smtp show the emails when the list is created and when users are added


What about vette and smtp-failure? Do they exist? If so, what's in
them. What about qrunner?


>> Are there any candidate recipients of the message? I.e. is there a  
>> list
>> regular (not digest) member with delivery enabled who is not the
>> poster and who is not a direct addressee of the post?
>
>I didn't make any changes to the list.  I created it with newlist and  
>used my @domain.edu address as the owner


Did you add any members? Are those members regular or digest?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Sat Apr 21 02:54:45 2007
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 19:54:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman GID problem
In-Reply-To: <DB6C056281A25168ECD2A048@utd59514.utdallas.edu>
References: <200704200842.48793.david@vizion2000.net>
	<CA436D2A-08D1-4CC9-B300-7FF4E7F929F0@goldmark.org>
	<94592079D5FE1208BC6F7D03@utd59514.utdallas.edu>
	<F7A906EA-FA63-42C2-8E42-20F0B575A810@goldmark.org>
	<DB6C056281A25168ECD2A048@utd59514.utdallas.edu>
Message-ID: <A6A80B58-976B-4C70-BD05-712EBA601B00@goldmark.org>

On Apr 20, 2007, at 4:31 PM, Paul Schmehl wrote:

> --On Friday, April 20, 2007 14:23:14 -0500 Jeffrey Goldberg  
> <jeffrey at goldmark.org> wrote:
>
>> Can you tell me where to find the unprocessed version of pkg-install?
>> What is in work/ has already been processed by sed, and I didn't see
>> anything obvious in files/

> /usr/ports/mail/mailman/pkg-install

Ah.  It was right under my nose.

>> I'm beginning to think that the fix will be as simple as
>>
>> --- Makefile.orig       Fri Apr 20 14:17:08 2007
>> +++ Makefile    Fri Apr 20 14:18:14 2007
>> @@ -88,7 +88,7 @@
>> .if defined(WITH_SENDMAIL) || defined(WITH_EXIM3) || defined 
>> (WITH_EXIM4)
>> BROKEN=        choose only one MTA integration
>> .endif
>> -MAIL_GID?=     nobody
>> +MAIL_GID?=     mailman
>> .endif
>> .if defined(WITH_CHINESE)
>>
> No, that's *absolutely* the wrong fix.  The group required for  
> mailman to work depends on the mail server you are using.   
> Sendmail, postfix, qmail, etc. all require different groups.  So  
> using a fixed group might work for you, but it would break it for a  
> lot of other people's setups.

I think I'm beginning to understand where that "nobody" comes from  
and why you are right about that.

Here is an excerpt from the postfix aliases(5)

   In the absence of a user context,  the  local(8)  daemon  uses   
the  owner
   rights  of  the :include: file or alias database.  When those  
files are
   owned by the superuser, delivery is made with the rights specified  
with
   the default_privs configuration parameter.

I had been looking at the first half of that (which I was already  
aware of).  So I thought that if the wrapper were compiled to only  
run as "nobody" than the relevant alias files had to be owned by  
"nobody".  I wasn't, until looking this up, aware of what happens  
when the aliases file is owned by root.

In the postfix out of ports on FreeBSD, default_privs is set to  
"nobody".

So the first fix (modifying the owner of data/aliases{,.db}) is the  
right way to go, but instead of making those files owned by  
"nobody" (which does seem dangerous because than anything running as  
"nobody" could change those file) they should be owned by root with  
mailman as the group and permissions like 664.

Let me just test that now... Yes.  Mail delivery seems to work with

[jeffrey at dobby /usr/local/mailman/data]$ ls -la .
total 78
drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman   1024 Apr 19 16:03 .
drwxrwsr-x  20 mailman  mailman    512 Mar 30 13:57 ..
-rw-r-----   1 root     mailman     41 Sep 11  2006 adm.pw
-rw-rw----   1 root     mailman   3523 Mar 31 16:10 aliases
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     mailman  16384 Mar 31 16:10 aliases.db
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     mailman  12288 Sep 13  2006 aliases.db.rpmsave
-rw-r-----   1 root     mailman     41 Sep 11  2006 creator.pw
-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman     10 Mar 30 13:57 last_mailman_version
-rw-rw----   1 root     mailman      4 Apr 17 14:34 master-qrunner.pid
-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman  14114 Mar 30 13:57 sitelist.cfg
-rw-rw----   1 root     mailman   3334 Mar 31 16:10 virtual-mailman
-rw-rw-r--   1 root     mailman  16384 Mar 31 16:10 virtual-mailman.db

I haven't yet tested list creation, but the permissions look fine to  
me.  All of the relevant files (as well as the data directory itself)  
are writable by members of the mailman group.

But I think I now see the problem

$ ../bin/check_perms
/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases.db owned by root (must be owned by  
mailman
/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman.db owned by root (must be  
owned by mailman
Problems found: 2
Re-run as mailman (or root) with -f flag to fix

Somehow check_perms doesn't seem to know how postfix does things.  If  
I were to actually run

   check_perms -f

it would break to ownership of the aliases file so that we would have  
the mismatch between what the uid postfix gives the the wrapper  
("mailman") and what the wrapper demands ("nobody").

So maybe the problem is with check_perms and not with the port at all  
(well the port would still need to get the aliases files owned by root).

While setting the aliases files to be owned by "nobody" or by making  
the wrapper want "mailman" instead of "nobody" would be work-arounds,  
both of those lose out on the security achieved by having the aliases  
files owned by root.

Of course my two previous "understandings" of how things were  
supposed to work were wrong.  So please take my current analysis with  
a large grain of salt.

And thank you all for your patience in putting up with my half-baked  
postings.

Cheers,

-j

-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp  Sat Apr 21 05:05:28 2007
From: turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 12:05:28 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Troubles with mailman+postfix
In-Reply-To: <1177099622.15168.4.camel@osmosis>
References: <1177057468.18766.1.camel@osmosis> <4628A372.8070700@xcski.com>
	<1177099622.15168.4.camel@osmosis>
Message-ID: <87mz12pguf.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Andrea S. Gozzi writes:

 > 'relay_domains = lists.vp44.net' fixed it.

Why is this a right way to do it?  I would think that if it's all the
same host you would want something to say "I'll handle it", which is
what mydestination does for "real" domains, and virtual_alias_domains
does for virtual aliases.

If this a better way, maybe we should write up a FAQ.


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Sat Apr 21 06:59:46 2007
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 23:59:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman GID problem
In-Reply-To: <241A5B7DB4C2BB1A9FE54C99@paul-schmehls-powerbook59.local>
References: <200704200842.48793.david@vizion2000.net>
	<CA436D2A-08D1-4CC9-B300-7FF4E7F929F0@goldmark.org>
	<94592079D5FE1208BC6F7D03@utd59514.utdallas.edu>
	<F7A906EA-FA63-42C2-8E42-20F0B575A810@goldmark.org>
	<DB6C056281A25168ECD2A048@utd59514.utdallas.edu>
	<A6A80B58-976B-4C70-BD05-712EBA601B00@goldmark.org>
	<241A5B7DB4C2BB1A9FE54C99@paul-schmehls-powerbook59.local>
Message-ID: <2D8F0EEC-CA1A-403E-8799-8E6D27C11475@goldmark.org>

On Apr 20, 2007, at 9:26 PM, Paul Schmehl wrote:

> --On April 20, 2007 7:54:45 PM -0500 Jeffrey Goldberg  
> <jeffrey at goldmark.org> wrote:

>> So the first fix (modifying the owner of data/aliases{,.db}) is the
>> right way to go, but instead of making those files owned by "nobody"
>> (which does seem dangerous because than anything running as "nobody"
>> could change those file) they should be owned by root with mailman as
>> the group and permissions like 664.
>>
> Nobody is an unprivileged user.

Thank you.  I forgot about that.  I was treating "nobody" like "www"  
or "mail".  It entirely slipped my mind that "nobody" really is  
different.

>> it would break to ownership of the aliases file so that we would have
>> the mismatch between what the uid postfix gives the the wrapper
>> ("mailman") and what the wrapper demands ("nobody").
>>
> Nope.  I've been running mailman for years now, and it works  
> perfectly fine.  The owner of the data directory is mailman, and  
> the group is mailman.
> ls -lsa /usr/local/mailman/data/
> total 132
> 2 drwxrwsr-x   2 mailman  mailman    512 Apr  7 19:47 .
> 2 drwxrwsr-x  20 mailman  mailman    512 Nov 28 17:48 ..
> 48 -rw-r--r--   1 mailman  mailman  65536 Sep  6  2005 .db
> 2 -rw-r-----   1 mailman  mailman     41 Sep  6  2005 adm.pw
> 6 -rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman   4383 Oct 14  2005 aliases
> 4 -rw-r-----   1 mailman  mailman   3984 Sep  8  2005 aliases.bak
> 48 -rw-r-----   1 mailman  mailman  49152 May  5  2006 aliases.db
> 0 -rw-rw-rw-   1 mailman  mailman      0 Sep  9  2005 bounce- 
> events-00446.pck
> 0 -rw-rw-rw-   1 mailman  mailman      0 Sep  9  2005 bounce- 
> events-00449.pck
> 0 -rw-rw-rw-   1 mailman  mailman      0 Sep  9  2005 bounce- 
> events-00467.pck
> 0 -rw-rw-rw-   1 mailman  mailman      0 Jan 27  2006 bounce- 
> events-00567.pck
> 0 -rw-rw-rw-   1 mailman  mailman      0 Oct 13  2005 bounce- 
> events-38840.pck
> 2 -rw-r-----   1 mailman  mailman     41 Sep  6  2005 creator.pw
> 2 -rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman     10 Nov 28 17:48  
> last_mailman_version
> 2 -rw-rw----   1 mailman  mailman      4 Apr  1 08:31 master- 
> qrunner.pid
> 14 -rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman  14114 Nov 28 17:48 sitelist.cfg

I am fairly confident that if that is working for you, than you are  
not running with /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman that was compiled  
with the current port with the postfix option set.  The binary  
mailman has a gid compiled into it.  Given the current port  
WITH_POSTFIX.

Installing the current port WITH_POSTFIX will produce a mailman  
binary which will only allow itself to be run by "nobody".  Yours  
must have "mailman" compiled in where "nobody" is in what I (and  
David) get.

[jeffrey at dobby /usr/local/mailman/mail]$ strings mailman | tail
leave
post
owner
request
unsubscribe
Mailman mail-wrapper
nobody
Illegal command: %s
Usage: %s program [args...]
$FreeBSD: src/lib/csu/i386-elf/crtn.S,v 1.6 2005/05/19 07:31:06 dfr  
Exp $


What is your result on your system?  If you get "mailman" where I  
have "nobody" then one of my earlier suggestions (change MAIL_GID for  
the postfix setting from "nobody" to "mailman" in the port Makefile)  
may be the right thing.  That is what is most consistent with the  
mailman install instructions.

 From /usr/local/share/doc/mailman/mailman-install.txt

  In section  6.1.1 Integrating Postfix and Mailman


    * When you configure Mailman, use the --with-mail-gid=mailman
      switch;

However, the current ports Makefile compiles mailman --with-mail- 
gid=nobody

The same section also says

        Make sure that the owner of the data/aliases and data/aliases.db
        file is mailman, that the group owner for those files is  
mailman,
        or whatever user and group you used in the configure command,  
and
        that both files are group writable:
        % su
        % chown mailman:mailman data/aliases*
        % chmod g+w data/aliases*

>
> It is the *group* that matters to postfix, *not* the owner.  Per  
> the pkg-message file:
> Mailman has been installed, but requires further configuration  
> before use!
>
> You will have to configure both your MTA (mail server) and web  
> server to
> integrate with Mailman.  If the port's documentation has been  
> installed,
> extensive post-installation instructions may be found in:
>
>  %%DOCSDIR%%/FreeBSD-post-install-notes
>
> Note (1):  If you use an alternate (non-Sendmail) MTA, you MUST be  
> sure
> that the correct value of MAIL_GID was used when this port or package
> was built.  Performing a "make options" in the Mailman port directory
> will list required values for various mail servers.
>
> Note that MAIL_GID is what matters.  That is the *group* not the  
> owner of the files.  Note also that the group only has read writes  
> to the aliases file, although it does have read/write access to the  
> bounce-events files.

However it is the owner of the file containing the pipe alias that  
matters to postfix local deliveries.  See local(8).


>> So maybe the problem is with check_perms and not with the port at all
>> (well the port would still need to get the aliases files owned by  
>> root).
>>
> There's nothing at all wrong with the check_perms script.

I am coming to that conclusion.  I now think that my second  
suggestion of changing the ports Makefile to set MAIL_GID to mailman  
instead of nobody when configuring for postfix is the correct  
direction to go.

> mailman owns the aliases db for mailman:
> ls -lsa /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases*
> 6 -rw-r--r--  1 root     mailman   4383 Oct 14  2005 /usr/local/ 
> mailman/data/aliases
> 4 -rw-r-----  1 mailman  mailman   3984 Sep  8  2005 /usr/local/ 
> mailman/data/aliases.bak
> 48 -rw-r-----  1 mailman  mailman  49152 May  5  2006 /usr/local/ 
> mailman/data/aliases.db
>
> And this is a working setup of mailman and postfix that's been  
> running for years.

But I don't believe that that set-up will work with the configure  
options that get passed for compiling mailman with the current port.

PORTNAME=       mailman
DISTVERSION=    2.1.9
PORTREVISION=   1
CATEGORIES?=    mail

Thus, with a bit more confidence that before I present the same  
Makefile diff I recommend:

--- Makefile.orig       Fri Apr 20 14:17:08 2007
+++ Makefile    Fri Apr 20 23:57:22 2007
@@ -7,7 +7,7 @@
PORTNAME=      mailman
DISTVERSION=   2.1.9
-PORTREVISION=  1
+PORTREVISION=  2
CATEGORIES?=   mail
MASTER_SITES=  ${MASTER_SITE_SOURCEFORGE} \
                 http://www.list.org/
@@ -88,7 +88,7 @@
.if defined(WITH_SENDMAIL) || defined(WITH_EXIM3) || defined(WITH_EXIM4)
BROKEN=        choose only one MTA integration
.endif
-MAIL_GID?=     nobody
+MAIL_GID?=     mailman
.endif
.if defined(WITH_CHINESE)

Cheers,

-j

-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Sat Apr 21 14:53:30 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 08:53:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Troubles with mailman+postfix
In-Reply-To: <87mz12pguf.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <1177057468.18766.1.camel@osmosis>	<4628A372.8070700@xcski.com>	<1177099622.15168.4.camel@osmosis>
	<87mz12pguf.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <462A094A.90705@xcski.com>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Andrea S. Gozzi writes:
> 
>  > 'relay_domains = lists.vp44.net' fixed it.
> 
> Why is this a right way to do it?  I would think that if it's all the
> same host you would want something to say "I'll handle it", which is
> what mydestination does for "real" domains, and virtual_alias_domains
> does for virtual aliases.
> 
> If this a better way, maybe we should write up a FAQ.

It's not a better way.  It's a kluge that happens to work for that one case.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com>
"Stay calm, be brave, and wait for the signs!"

From dennis at e-aa.org  Sun Apr 22 16:43:51 2007
From: dennis at e-aa.org (Dennis Morgan)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 09:43:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] customizing list info pages!
Message-ID: <462B74A7.1050704@e-aa.org>

Thanks to Mark, we now have a very spiffy looking (well I like it!) 
Mailman site. For an example see here:
http://lists.eaachat.org/mailman/listinfo/nb

There is one page left - this one:
http://lists.eaachat.org/mailman/listinfo

Is there someway to edit that one?

BTW - everyone here is very impressed with Mailman's ease and speed.

Thanks in advance!

Dennis

From msapiro at value.net  Sun Apr 22 16:58:49 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 07:58:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] customizing list info pages!
In-Reply-To: <462B74A7.1050704@e-aa.org>
Message-ID: <PC176020070422075849065688ddfb41@msapiro>

Dennis Morgan wrote:
>
>There is one page left - this one:
>http://lists.eaachat.org/mailman/listinfo
>
>Is there someway to edit that one?


You can set the colors of this and other web UI pages in mm_cfg.py. See
the

#####
# Web UI defaults
#####

section in Defaults.py for more info.

The listinfo overview page is not built from a template. It is created
on the fly by code in the Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py module. To change
more than colors, you have to edit this code.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From calvin at siryn.co.za  Sun Apr 22 21:10:33 2007
From: calvin at siryn.co.za (Calvin Muller)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 21:10:33 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalization [was: mailman post mail to list
	error]
In-Reply-To: <4628F6E9.2000306@szalbot.homedns.org>
References: <PC1760200704201014300234a975af68@msapiro>
	<4628F6E9.2000306@szalbot.homedns.org>
Message-ID: <000f01c78511$e7634790$b629d6b0$@co.za>

Okay, I did what you said but I notice that the Unsubscribe footer is sent
in a .txt file which is attached to the email. Is there anyway you could
append this to the bottom on the mail and not in an attachment form..

Thanks
Calvin Muller

-----Original Message-----
From: zs [mailto:zbyszek at szalbot.homedns.org] 
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 7:23 PM
To: Mailman Users
Cc: Calvin Muller
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Personalization [was: mailman post mail to list
error]

Mark Sapiro pisze:
> Calvin Muller wrote:
>
>   
>> Thank you very much, I did actually manage to get it to work. :) Thanks
>> again very much. If I am sending out a newsletter to people I create the
>> HTML newsletter in Outlook and then I send it to mailman at hostname.blah it
>> sends and is archived but how do I add unsubscribe links and personalize
the
>> emails?
>>     
>
>
> Set 
>
> OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
>
> in mm_cfg.py. Then go to the admin Non-digest options page and set
> personalize to Yes or Full as desired and set msg_header and/or
> msg_footer as desired. See the "Details for ..." links for a list of
> allowable replacements.
>   
And restart mailman for the changes to take effect. At least I think you 
need to do it.
> Also if on General Options you set include_rfc2369_headers to Yes (and
> probably include_list_post_header to No for a 'newsletter') the RFC
> 2369 List-* headers will be included in messages from Mailman and
> these include a List-Unsubscribe: header, but not all MUAs recognize
> or display these headers.
>   
And be aware of one more thing - personalization comes at a price. If 
you have many users and send relatively big newsletter (say each message 
is about 200KB) and you have many users, your mail server must have a 
bit of RAM. Otherwise, it will have hard time trying to swallow a couple 
hundred of emails in a very short period time.

There's a setting to limit the number of emails mailman passes to a 
mailserver in one go. I don't remember it off hand, though.


Warm regards,

Zbigniew Szalbot


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Apr 22 22:58:46 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 15:58:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalization [was: mailman post mail to list
 error]
In-Reply-To: <000f01c78511$e7634790$b629d6b0$@co.za>
References: <PC1760200704201014300234a975af68@msapiro>
	<4628F6E9.2000306@szalbot.homedns.org>
	<000f01c78511$e7634790$b629d6b0$@co.za>
Message-ID: <p06240501c2517cf285ee@[10.0.1.199]>

At 9:10 PM +0200 4/22/07, Calvin Muller wrote:

>  Okay, I did what you said but I notice that the Unsubscribe footer is sent
>  in a .txt file which is attached to the email. Is there anyway you could
>  append this to the bottom on the mail and not in an attachment form..

Search the FAQ Wizard for "footer".  That should answer your question.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From felixtp at webmail.co.za  Mon Apr 23 07:52:19 2007
From: felixtp at webmail.co.za (felixtp at webmail.co.za)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:52:19 +0200 (SAST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] script
Message-ID: <48462.196.212.253.142.1177307539.squirrel@mail.webmail.co.za>

Hi

Can someone help, i need a script to check all user accounts last login
against dormancy period and be able to delete users who haven't updated
their in 30 days detail then send an email to them.

Thank you


-------------------------------------------
South Africas premier free email service - www.webmail.co.za 
------------------------------------------------------------------
For super low premiums, click here http://www.webmail.co.za/dd.pwm


From david at vizion2000.net  Mon Apr 23 12:51:49 2007
From: david at vizion2000.net (David Southwell)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 03:51:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating mailman with joomla/mambo
Message-ID: <200704230351.49610.david@vizion2000.net>

Hi

Has anyone done this?
If so how successful?
How about username/password integration?
It would be really great to have mailman as a joomla/mambo module
If not does anyone have any ideas how to go about this?
I am posting a similar question in the joomla forum

David

From david at vizion2000.net  Mon Apr 23 14:20:20 2007
From: david at vizion2000.net (David Southwell)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:20:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating mailman with joomla/mambo
In-Reply-To: <200704230351.49610.david@vizion2000.net>
References: <200704230351.49610.david@vizion2000.net>
Message-ID: <200704230520.20497.david@vizion2000.net>

On Monday 23 April 2007 03:51:49 David Southwell wrote:
> Hi
>
> Has anyone done this?
> If so how successful?
> How about username/password integration?
> It would be really great to have mailman as a joomla/mambo module
> If not does anyone have any ideas how to go about this?
> I am posting a similar question in the joomla forum
>
> David
I have received one encouraging reply from Brian on the Joomla  Integration 
forum who says:

>The only thing I have seen is this module for subscribing
>http://forge.joomla.org/sf/frs/do/viewRelease/projects.gesellix/frs.mailman_
>subscripe.2_4
This module handles subscriptions to the mailman maillists within a joomla 
module.
A little bit more would be really great but this is well worth looking at -- 
this module may be capable of being extended.

david



From david at vizion2000.net  Mon Apr 23 16:21:21 2007
From: david at vizion2000.net (David Southwell)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 07:21:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating mailman with joomla/mambo
In-Reply-To: <441B2E72-CD8D-4DFA-A92B-7BCE0291F41B@us.army.mil>
References: <200704230351.49610.david@vizion2000.net>
	<441B2E72-CD8D-4DFA-A92B-7BCE0291F41B@us.army.mil>
Message-ID: <200704230721.22321.david@vizion2000.net>

On Monday 23 April 2007 06:06:32 David Ravetti wrote:

> On Apr 23, 2007, at 06:51 , David Southwell wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > Has anyone done this?
> > If so how successful?
> > How about username/password integration?
> > It would be really great to have mailman as a joomla/mambo module
> > If not does anyone have any ideas how to go about this?
> > I am posting a similar question in the joomla forum
> >
> > David
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users mailing list
> > Mailman-Users at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%
> > 40python.org/
> > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/
> > david.ravetti%40us.army.mil
> >
> > Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?
> > req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

> David,
>
> We have a site that uses Joomla and also produces a newsletter
> through Mailman. There is no integration between the two in the way
> that you're thinking of - they're on separate servers in fact - but
> from a user perspective it all appears to be a single site.
>
> They have the newsletter signup form within the Joomla site. They
> simply copied the form commands that would be used from within the
> Mailman subscription page. The subscription confirmation page was
> then customized within Mailman to reflect the site's look and feel
> (it could also have been customized to redirect to a page within the
> site to keep everything within Joomla).
>
> Another site has done a similar setup within Moveable Type.
>
> I wouldn't feel comfortable with doing username/password integration,
> at least not with our setup, since Mailman's password system is less
> rigorous than Joomla's. It could probably be done with some
> customization and proxying if you own the server, but since Mailman
> sends passwords in the clear it would reduce the security of the
> Joomla site.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> David Ravetti
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Technical Manager, Army Homepage
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
Thanks very much for your interesting comment which I have forwarded to the 
list along with my reply.. I hope you don't mind but I have changed this 
round to the standard bottom post because top posting tends to confuse.

I have received one encouraging reply from Brian on the Joomla ?Integration 
forum who says:

>>The only thing I have seen is this module for subscribing
>>http://forge.joomla.org/sf/frs/do/viewRelease/projects.gesellix/frs.mailman_
>>subscripe.2_4

I think this could provide an interesting basis for building further extension 
modules. For my part, as I use my own server, I would prefer to shift away 
from sending passwords in the clear (apart possibly an initial use one time 
use for mass subscriptions followed by logon verfication).

Thanks for your input, it is apprecaited

david



From dave at ddwsvcs.com  Mon Apr 23 16:51:36 2007
From: dave at ddwsvcs.com (David Devereaux-Weber, P.E.)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:51:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Making "Your Name" Mandatory?
Message-ID: <462CC7F8.1010001@ddwsvcs.com>

Is there a way to make "Your Name" a mandatory part of the subscription 
process?  This is a great help to list operators trying to troubleshoot 
email problems.

Dave

-- 
David Devereaux-Weber, P.E.
DDW Services <http://ddwsvcs.com>
dave at ddwsvcs.com
(608)576-2599

From linux at zamirfamily.com  Mon Apr 23 17:04:36 2007
From: linux at zamirfamily.com (Dov Zamir)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:04:36 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-i18n] Hebrew Mailman Support
In-Reply-To: <4617AA95.2090602@zamirfamily.com>
References: <PC1760200703070715220140d6e8b4a2@msapiro>	<4634.88.155.215.223.1174402444.squirrel@webmail.beitkama.org.il>	<232F5C14-C9B8-4025-996F-73077C89BA6F@python.org>
	<4617AA95.2090602@zamirfamily.com>
Message-ID: <462CCB04.8030701@zamirfamily.com>

Hi all,


I am resending this email, as well as to the other mailing lists, since 
I have received zero feedback since sending the original over two weeks ago.


Should I assume there is no interest in this translation, and just keep 
it for my own sites?


????? Dov Zamir:

> ????? Barry Warsaw:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>>
>> It's probably best to open a patch issue on SourceForge and attach 
>> your .po file to the patch.  Then send a link to that issue here.  
>> One of us will pull it into svn from there.
>>
>
> I have just uploaded the Hebrew translation files to Sourceforge as 
> issue number 1696053. Here is the attached description:
>
> Attached are the Hebrew files for Mailman 2.1.9
> I added a parameter to the LC_DESCRIPTION function, and these are the 
> files
> that are affected by the addition of 'direction' to the 'LC_DESCRIPTION'
> function. They have been changed, and diffs are attached...
>
> ./Mailman/Cgi/create.py
> ./Mailman/Defaults.py.in
> ./Mailman/Defaults.py
> ./Mailman/Utils.py
> ./messages/es/README.es
> ./messages/ja/README.ja
> ./messages/ja/doc/Defaults.py.in
> ./messages/eu/README.eu
>
> Likewise, all translation files are attached.
>
> There is still a problem displaying command line output in the correct
> direction. Still looking for a solution...
> !DSPAM:506,4617aaa384346205613798!
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailman-i18n mailing list
> Posts: Mailman-i18n at python.org
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-i18n/linux%40zamirfamily.com
>
>
> !DSPAM:506,4617aaa384346205613798!
>   


From shacky83 at gmail.com  Mon Apr 23 18:06:02 2007
From: shacky83 at gmail.com (shacky)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:06:02 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail problems
Message-ID: <7fedbc910704230906p1a54df99mae0c8129250c1e6d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi.
I'm trying to install Mailman 2.1.9 on a system running Debian Stable (Etch
4.0) and Qmail+Vpopmail.
I installed Mailman with apt-get, I added a new virtual domain (
lists.mydomain.com) in Vpopmail and I configured the web interface.
I created a new test list, but if I try to subscribe myself by the web
interface I don't receive any confirmation message.
The /usr/sbin/sendmail executable is correct and points to the Qmail
installation.
In the Qmail logs I dont' see anything special, it seems Mailman isn't
sending any e-mail.

How I could solve?

Thank you very much!
Bye.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Mon Apr 23 18:17:44 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:17:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating mailman with joomla/mambo
In-Reply-To: <200704230351.49610.david@vizion2000.net>
References: <200704230351.49610.david@vizion2000.net>
Message-ID: <p06240500c2528b56eda4@[10.0.1.199]>

At 3:51 AM -0700 4/23/07, David Southwell wrote:

>  Has anyone done this?

Yes.

>  If so how successful?

Pretty successful.

>  How about username/password integration?

Hard to say.  I know people who've done it (e.g., Curtis Preston), 
but I have not done it myself.

>  It would be really great to have mailman as a joomla/mambo module
>  If not does anyone have any ideas how to go about this?
>  I am posting a similar question in the joomla forum

If you search the FAQ Wizard for "joomla", or "content management 
systems", or "web board discussion systems", or "PHP", or "forum", or 
various related terms then you should come across FAQ 1.26.  So far 
as I know, that is the latest information we have on this subject.

If you had already searched the FAQ Wizard on these subjects, please 
let us know what search terms you used that did *not* pull up FAQ 
1.26, and we'll try to get it modified to suit.

If you have any more information to add to that FAQ entry, please 
feel free to make your own contribution (using the instructions 
provided in the FAQ Wizard itself) and let us know.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From barry at python.org  Mon Apr 23 18:48:09 2007
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:48:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] [Mailman-i18n] Hebrew
	Mailman Support
In-Reply-To: <462CCB04.8030701@zamirfamily.com>
References: <PC1760200703070715220140d6e8b4a2@msapiro>	<4634.88.155.215.223.1174402444.squirrel@webmail.beitkama.org.il>	<232F5C14-C9B8-4025-996F-73077C89BA6F@python.org>
	<4617AA95.2090602@zamirfamily.com>
	<462CCB04.8030701@zamirfamily.com>
Message-ID: <552B238A-6C13-47DD-928A-3EE0540B1B9D@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Apr 23, 2007, at 11:04 AM, Dov Zamir wrote:

> I am resending this email, as well as to the other mailing lists,  
> since
> I have received zero feedback since sending the original over two  
> weeks ago.
>
>
> Should I assume there is no interest in this translation, and just  
> keep
> it for my own sites?

Dov, I'm sorry.  It's definitely been on my list of things to do, but  
I just haven't had time yet.  We will definitely get it in for a  
Mailman 2.1.10 release.

Thanks,
- -Barry

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin)

iQCVAwUBRizjT3EjvBPtnXfVAQJ1BQP/akGQ0hxsT3Kl9p+xfuhOtQV7HUSnXQdr
boA4uvfGtB1mN/yRC3YQklDPaklSgLowx+WMKxNcloxWkVgWoT8ywi/8a4uLm5II
2OdHIBUT6iqagO3H+qeGQVmaK/MNCZWBRklzcbPyfD5+GDp2aG0arbTVvBJcSzGI
6kugxxXSg4o=
=nGX/
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 23 19:16:43 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:16:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail problems
In-Reply-To: <7fedbc910704230906p1a54df99mae0c8129250c1e6d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070423101643015697baa387@msapiro>

shacky wrote:

>I created a new test list, but if I try to subscribe myself by the web
>interface I don't receive any confirmation message.
>The /usr/sbin/sendmail executable is correct and points to the Qmail
>installation.
>In the Qmail logs I dont' see anything special, it seems Mailman isn't
>sending any e-mail.
>
>How I could solve?


Start with
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 23 19:27:03 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:27:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Making "Your Name" Mandatory?
In-Reply-To: <462CC7F8.1010001@ddwsvcs.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007042310270301874d869a9e@msapiro>

David Devereaux-Weber, P.E. wrote:

>Is there a way to make "Your Name" a mandatory part of the subscription 
>process?  This is a great help to list operators trying to troubleshoot 
>email problems.


Only by modifying code.

It would be fairly easy to modify Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py to require a
real name be provided for a web based subscribe.

Email subscribe would be trickier because the real name comes from the
From: header of the subscribe email, so what do you tell the user if
there isn't a real name?

You might also want to look at the web based confirm -
Mailman/Cgi/confirm.py, as that allows override of the initial real
name.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From david at vizion2000.net  Mon Apr 23 19:55:45 2007
From: david at vizion2000.net (David Southwell)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:55:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating mailman with joomla/mambo
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c2528b56eda4@[10.0.1.199]>
References: <200704230351.49610.david@vizion2000.net>
	<p06240500c2528b56eda4@[10.0.1.199]>
Message-ID: <200704231055.46300.david@vizion2000.net>

On Monday 23 April 2007 09:17:44 Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 3:51 AM -0700 4/23/07, David Southwell wrote:
> >  Has anyone done this?
>
> Yes.
>
> >  If so how successful?
>
> Pretty successful.
>
> >  How about username/password integration?
>
> Hard to say.  I know people who've done it (e.g., Curtis Preston),
> but I have not done it myself.
>
> >  It would be really great to have mailman as a joomla/mambo module
> >  If not does anyone have any ideas how to go about this?
> >  I am posting a similar question in the joomla forum
>
> If you search the FAQ Wizard for "joomla", or "content management
> systems", or "web board discussion systems", or "PHP", or "forum", or
> various related terms then you should come across FAQ 1.26.  So far
> as I know, that is the latest information we have on this subject.
>
> If you had already searched the FAQ Wizard on these subjects, please
> let us know what search terms you used that did *not* pull up FAQ
> 1.26, and we'll try to get it modified to suit.
>
> If you have any more information to add to that FAQ entry, please
> feel free to make your own contribution (using the instructions
> provided in the FAQ Wizard itself) and let us know.

Yes I did read the FAQ but what was written there was not really specific 
enough. I did not want to be too critical of the FAQ so I did not mention 
what I had seen there when I originally posted.. but maybe that was remiss of 
me.

There was a interesting aside about some work done by Scot Harris but no link 
to  him e or to the software mentioned or even an indication that the results 
of his work are available in the public domain. The implication of the FAQ 
was a need to look elsewhere for a generic solution for providing a module 
giving a full integration for Joomla and mailman. What the FAQ did do was to 
reinforce what I knew.. that such integration was possible.. but took me no 
further towards actually doing it.

Unfortunately, as in many other places, the FAQ, whilst providing many 
apparently hopeful mentions, which can be very useful in some instances, it 
seems that there have not been enough informed contributions. This means the 
work does not, in many places, have sufficient specific follow ups. Perhaps 
this is an indication that those of us who are new to mailman might perhaps 
pay more attention to turning the results of our learning experience into 
well written contributions that  improve the quality of the  FAQ over time. 

Do not get me wrong-- I have found the FAQ can be really useful at times, but 
the Mailman FAQ is a bit of a curates egg. Sometimes it seems like an FAQ but 
it often seems more like a personal blog rather than a well focused piece of 
work, written to a consistent, disciplined standard,  giving comprehensive  
step by step instructions  in response to very specific and well crafted  
questions.

My two pennorth with a big thank you to everyone who has got it to the current 
level.

david

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 24 01:53:02 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:53:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] script
In-Reply-To: <48462.196.212.253.142.1177307539.squirrel@mail.webmail.co.za>
Message-ID: <PC17602007042316530201252c22b4ff@msapiro>

felixtp at webmail.co.za wrote:
>
>Can someone help, i need a script to check all user accounts last login
>against dormancy period and be able to delete users who haven't updated
>their in 30 days detail then send an email to them.


First of all, you can't do it. Mailman doesn't keep track of a list
member's log-ins to visit archives, roster or options page, so 'last
log-in' information isn't available.

Second, I don't think it would be a good idea. Once I have set my
options appropriately, I may just read the posts that are delivered to
me and not have occasion to ever log in, yet very much desire to
remain on the list.

If you are trying to identify 'dead' addresses, that's what bounce
processing is for.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Tue Apr 24 02:21:44 2007
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:21:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] script
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007042316530201252c22b4ff@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007042316530201252c22b4ff@msapiro>
Message-ID: <462D4D98.8010209@xcski.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> felixtp at webmail.co.za wrote:
>> Can someone help, i need a script to check all user accounts last login
>> against dormancy period and be able to delete users who haven't updated
>> their in 30 days detail then send an email to them.
> 
> 
> First of all, you can't do it. Mailman doesn't keep track of a list
> member's log-ins to visit archives, roster or options page, so 'last
> log-in' information isn't available.
> 
> Second, I don't think it would be a good idea. Once I have set my
> options appropriately, I may just read the posts that are delivered to
> me and not have occasion to ever log in, yet very much desire to
> remain on the list.

Not to mention the addresses I subscribe to lists (set no-mail) just so 
I can occasionally post to those lists when my main mail is not working. 
  Those addresses (specifically, my gmail account) never visit the web 
site, almost never post to the list, etc.  But if you were to 
unsubscribe it, I'd be pretty upset.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com>
"Stay calm, be brave, and wait for the signs!"

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Apr 24 02:22:00 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:22:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating mailman with joomla/mambo
In-Reply-To: <200704231055.46300.david@vizion2000.net>
References: <200704230351.49610.david@vizion2000.net>
	<p06240500c2528b56eda4@[10.0.1.199]>
	<200704231055.46300.david@vizion2000.net>
Message-ID: <p06240500c252fb3b2ac6@[10.0.1.199]>

At 10:55 AM -0700 4/23/07, David Southwell wrote:

>  There was a interesting aside about some work done by Scot Harris but no link
>  to  him e or to the software mentioned or even an indication that the results
>  of his work are available in the public domain.

What I put in the FAQ is still the last word I heard from Curtis, and 
my understanding is that he helped fund an important step forward in 
the area of integrating Joomla! and Mailman.  I have not heard of any 
new information on this front.

If you have more recent information in this area, or know of someone 
who does, please feel free to update the FAQ and let us know.

If you've got better contact with Curtis than I do, and you can drag 
out of him more detail than I've been able to get so far, then please 
do go ahead and update the FAQ entry.

>                                                  The implication of the FAQ
>  was a need to look elsewhere for a generic solution for providing a module
>  giving a full integration for Joomla and mailman. What the FAQ did do was to
>  reinforce what I knew.. that such integration was possible.. but took me no
>  further towards actually doing it.

My understanding is that this is still a pretty raw area.  Mailman 
itself does not provide any hooks to assist with this process, so 
there's a limit to how much we can help.  If there are any tools out 
there to help integrate CMSes with Mailman, the unfortunate fact is 
that the authors of those tools have not coordinated well with the 
Mailman project, and they have not let us know about the work they've 
done.

>  Unfortunately, as in many other places, the FAQ, whilst providing many
>  apparently hopeful mentions, which can be very useful in some instances, it
>  seems that there have not been enough informed contributions.

We've done the best we can based on what anecdotal information we can 
gather, but that's always going to be a hit-or-miss proposition.  If 
the authors of the tools don't coordinate with us, there's not much 
we can do about that.

>                                                                This means the
>  work does not, in many places, have sufficient specific follow ups. Perhaps
>  this is an indication that those of us who are new to mailman might perhaps
>  pay more attention to turning the results of our learning experience into
>  well written contributions that  improve the quality of the  FAQ over time.

That would certainly be a good step forward, yes.  However, it is a 
community-supported document, and if the community does not choose to 
put the effort into doing the work necessary to keep it up-to-date 
and filled with as much useful information as possible, then we will 
all suffer.

I've certainly done as much as I can to contribute to the FAQ Wizard, 
both in terms of generating content itself as well as providing 
editorial assistance to try to make things as easy to understand as I 
can.  But I'm only one person.  We need more people to do the same 
kind of thing, or the FAQ will die -- probably a slow death, but 
perhaps much faster than would otherwise be expected.

>  Do not get me wrong-- I have found the FAQ can be really useful at times, but
>  the Mailman FAQ is a bit of a curates egg. Sometimes it seems like an FAQ but
>  it often seems more like a personal blog rather than a well focused piece of
>  work, written to a consistent, disciplined standard,  giving comprehensive
>  step by step instructions  in response to very specific and well crafted
>  questions.

Yeah, well -- you get what you pay for.

Pay tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars per year, and maybe you 
can get a good professional author to spend their entire life to make 
the FAQ a world-class document, the equal to which cannot be found 
anywhere else in the world.

Otherwise, this is the kind of thing you can expect to get.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Apr 24 06:46:39 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:46:39 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating mailman with joomla/mambo
In-Reply-To: <200704231055.46300.david@vizion2000.net>
References: <200704230351.49610.david@vizion2000.net>
	<p06240500c2528b56eda4@[10.0.1.199]>
	<200704231055.46300.david@vizion2000.net>
Message-ID: <87zm4yl6q8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

David Southwell writes:

 > the Mailman FAQ is a bit of a curates egg. Sometimes it seems like
 > an FAQ but it often seems more like a personal blog

That's a FAQ.  Excerpts from mailing list posts, with those questions
that are most frequently answered gradually acquiring improved wording
and more references.

 > rather than a well focused piece of work, written to a consistent,
 > disciplined standard, giving comprehensive step by step
 > instructions in response to very specific and well crafted
 > questions.

That's an O'Reilly Nutshell book.  :-)

A good idea, but who's going to bell the cat?

From david at vizion2000.net  Tue Apr 24 12:58:52 2007
From: david at vizion2000.net (David Southwell)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 03:58:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating mailman with joomla/mambo
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c252fb3b2ac6@[10.0.1.199]>
References: <200704230351.49610.david@vizion2000.net>
	<200704231055.46300.david@vizion2000.net>
	<p06240500c252fb3b2ac6@[10.0.1.199]>
Message-ID: <200704240358.52852.david@vizion2000.net>

On Monday 23 April 2007 17:22:00 Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 10:55 AM -0700 4/23/07, David Southwell wrote:
> >  There was a interesting aside about some work done by Scot Harris but no
> > link to  him e or to the software mentioned or even an indication that
> > the results of his work are available in the public domain.
>
> What I put in the FAQ is still the last word I heard from Curtis, and
> my understanding is that he helped fund an important step forward in
> the area of integrating Joomla! and Mailman.  I have not heard of any
> new information on this front.
>
> If you have more recent information in this area, or know of someone
> who does, please feel free to update the FAQ and let us know.
>
> If you've got better contact with Curtis than I do, and you can drag
> out of him more detail than I've been able to get so far, then please
> do go ahead and update the FAQ entry.
>
> >                                                  The implication of the
> > FAQ was a need to look elsewhere for a generic solution for providing a
> > module giving a full integration for Joomla and mailman. What the FAQ did
> > do was to reinforce what I knew.. that such integration was possible..
> > but took me no further towards actually doing it.
>
> My understanding is that this is still a pretty raw area.  Mailman
> itself does not provide any hooks to assist with this process, so
> there's a limit to how much we can help.  If there are any tools out
> there to help integrate CMSes with Mailman, the unfortunate fact is
> that the authors of those tools have not coordinated well with the
> Mailman project, and they have not let us know about the work they've
> done.
>
> >  Unfortunately, as in many other places, the FAQ, whilst providing many
> >  apparently hopeful mentions, which can be very useful in some instances,
> > it seems that there have not been enough informed contributions.
>
> We've done the best we can based on what anecdotal information we can
> gather, but that's always going to be a hit-or-miss proposition.  If
> the authors of the tools don't coordinate with us, there's not much
> we can do about that.
>
> >                                                                This means
> > the work does not, in many places, have sufficient specific follow ups.
> > Perhaps this is an indication that those of us who are new to mailman
> > might perhaps pay more attention to turning the results of our learning
> > experience into well written contributions that  improve the quality of
> > the  FAQ over time.
>
> That would certainly be a good step forward, yes.  However, it is a
> community-supported document, and if the community does not choose to
> put the effort into doing the work necessary to keep it up-to-date
> and filled with as much useful information as possible, then we will
> all suffer.

I agree - you do a lot -  I think it helps encourage people to make positive 
contributions to the FAQ when your contributions regret the lack of 
specificity in a particular FAQ. 
>
> I've certainly done as much as I can to contribute to the FAQ Wizard,
> both in terms of generating content itself as well as providing
> editorial assistance to try to make things as easy to understand as I
> can.  But I'm only one person.  We need more people to do the same
> kind of thing, or the FAQ will die -- probably a slow death, but
> perhaps much faster than would otherwise be expected.

I agree -- and have also noted that responses are more positive when you quote  
extracts from particular FAQ's on the lines of "you might find this useful 
[extract] - it is from FAQ [#]".
>
> >  Do not get me wrong-- I have found the FAQ can be really useful at
> > times, but the Mailman FAQ is a bit of a curates egg. Sometimes it seems
> > like an FAQ but it often seems more like a personal blog rather than a
> > well focused piece of work, written to a consistent, disciplined
> > standard,  giving comprehensive step by step instructions  in response to
> > very specific and well crafted questions.
>
> Yeah, well -- you get what you pay for.

Well we all contribute a bit in this open source world and the success of open 
source is IMHO largely due to the fact we are able to be openly critical 
about the results while being simultaneously encouraging to other 
contributors within the community.
>
> Pay tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars per year, and maybe you
> can get a good professional author to spend their entire life to make
> the FAQ a world-class document, the equal to which cannot be found
> anywhere else in the world.
>
> Otherwise, this is the kind of thing you can expect to get.

IMHO some of the best FAQ's are to be found in the Open Source World and many 
of the worst come from over highly paid professionals with too much attention 
to hype and too little devotion to meeting end user requirements. The 
advantage of  open source world is that the best contributions are crafted 
with care and passion and not with a focus on self interest.
my 2 pennorth
david



From jpa3nos at yahoo.com  Tue Apr 24 13:00:36 2007
From: jpa3nos at yahoo.com (John Papapanos)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 04:00:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable member configuration options
Message-ID: <392439.46046.qm@web53904.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi to all,
Is there a way to disable users-members from changing 
some or all of their configuration options?

I think this is very important because some of these 
options should in some cases be available only to
administrators.

In my case I want to have a public list in terms on
who
can post to the list but I want the list to be private
in terms of who can access the archives and to whom
messages can be forwarded to.
About the private archives there is an option and can
be configured only by the admin. But for me I want
posts to be forwarded only to people that are members
of the list and belong to my domain and not to the
members that do not belong to my domain. 

This way my mail server wont forward spam to other
domains (via the list) and people outside my domain
will still be able to read the list's posts.

This could be solved if the option to Enable mail
delivery was not available in user's configuration
page, or if the user could be dissalowed to change 
his options somehow.

Thank you 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Tue Apr 24 15:19:14 2007
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 15:19:14 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting the FONT globally for the mailman GUI?
Message-ID: <20070424131914.GF16895@charite.de>

How do I globally set the font the mailman HTML pages use?

Right now the pages look ugly as hell in IE, which my lusers use. I
never noticed, since I don't use IE :)

Basically, I want to use a serifless font. How can I do that in a
simple fashion?

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                    send no mail to plonk at charite.de

From dennis at e-aa.org  Tue Apr 24 15:42:14 2007
From: dennis at e-aa.org (Dennis Morgan)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:42:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable member configuration options
In-Reply-To: <392439.46046.qm@web53904.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <392439.46046.qm@web53904.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <462E0936.3000806@e-aa.org>

As far as the public list for posting with private for receiving and 
viewing archives you could
create a mail address on your website (or use the default 
<list-owner at yourdom.ain>) and forward all mail to the list

open the admin web page
Click privacy options
Click Senders filters
Go to:
List of non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically 
accepted.
Enter the email address that forwards to the list
Click submit changes.

Hope that helps!




John Papapanos wrote:
> Hi to all,
> Is there a way to disable users-members from changing 
> some or all of their configuration options?
>
> I think this is very important because some of these 
> options should in some cases be available only to
> administrators.
>
> In my case I want to have a public list in terms on
> who
> can post to the list but I want the list to be private
> in terms of who can access the archives and to whom
> messages can be forwarded to.
> About the private archives there is an option and can
> be configured only by the admin. But for me I want
> posts to be forwarded only to people that are members
> of the list and belong to my domain and not to the
> members that do not belong to my domain. 
>
> This way my mail server wont forward spam to other
> domains (via the list) and people outside my domain
> will still be able to read the list's posts.
>
> This could be solved if the option to Enable mail
> delivery was not available in user's configuration
> page, or if the user could be dissalowed to change 
> his options somehow.
>
> Thank you 
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dennis%40e-aa.org
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>
>   

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 24 16:59:28 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 07:59:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable member configuration options
In-Reply-To: <392439.46046.qm@web53904.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704240759280796ee932b18@msapiro>

John Papapanos  wrote:

>Is there a way to disable users-members from changing 
>some or all of their configuration options?


Only by changing the code in Mailman/Cgi/options.py and
Mailman/Commands/cmd_set.py.


>I think this is very important because some of these 
>options should in some cases be available only to
>administrators.


Perhaps this is the case in some highly unusual situations, but in
general it is appropriate for users to have control of their own
options.


>In my case I want to have a public list in terms on
>who
>can post to the list but I want the list to be private
>in terms of who can access the archives and to whom
>messages can be forwarded to.


So set Privacy options...->Sender filters->generic_nonmember_action to
Accept so anyone can post and set Privacy options...->Subscription
rules->ban_list to a regex that matches all addresses not in your
domain. E.g.,

^.*@(?!example\.com)$

or if you want to allow sub-domains within your domain

^.*@(.*\.)?(?!example\.com)$

See <http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html>.


>About the private archives there is an option and can
>be configured only by the admin. But for me I want
>posts to be forwarded only to people that are members
>of the list and belong to my domain and not to the
>members that do not belong to my domain. 


If you do the above, anyone can post to the list, member or not, but
only people with addresses in your domain can join the list and visit
archives and receive posts.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Tue Apr 24 18:47:29 2007
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:47:29 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the Name of the Mailman Machine
Message-ID: <200704241647.l3OGlTVA003832@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

If I need to change the name of the Mailman machine, I can run

     bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url

to update for each list the configuration parameters

     mlist.web_page_url
     mlist.host_name

I am not sure what to do with the archives, which have the current/old
machine name buried therein.  Will the

     bin/arch

utility accomplish that task?  It is not clear from the help displayed
with the "-h" option.

I know that there will be apache2 and Postfix changes in addition to
the mm_cfg.py changes.  Thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 24 19:26:10 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:26:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the Name of the Mailman Machine
In-Reply-To: <200704241647.l3OGlTVA003832@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704241026100000bc35f36a@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:
>
>I am not sure what to do with the archives, which have the current/old
>machine name buried therein.  Will the
>
>     bin/arch
>
>utility accomplish that task?  It is not clear from the help displayed
>with the "-h" option.

bin/arch --wipe

will rebuild the entire archive with the current host in the listinfo
link. It is a good idea to first run bin/cleanarch against the
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox files to make sure there
won't be any problems from unescaped lines beginning with "From ". You
can use the --dry-run option to check the file without writing a new
file.

Alternatively, those pages which are updated such as the table of
contents and the current and future periodic indexes and new messages
will all get the correct name when they are (re)written even if you do
nothing, but you'd need to run some kind of editing script to fix the
links on pages that won't be updated.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Tue Apr 24 19:35:52 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:35:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the Name of the Mailman Machine
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200704241026100000bc35f36a@msapiro>
References: <200704241647.l3OGlTVA003832@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
	<PC1760200704241026100000bc35f36a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200704241734.l3OHY486007029@unreal.eroded.org>

Mark Sapiro sent the message below at 10:26 4/24/2007:


>It is a good idea to first run bin/cleanarch against the
>archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox files to make sure there
>won't be any problems from unescaped lines beginning with "From ". You
>can use the --dry-run option to check the file without writing a new
>file.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

I am curious about this... if the mbox file in question was produced 
entirely by the stock pipermail archiving functionality of Mailman, 
is this step really necessary?

Also one thing I don't like about the bin/arch script is that it sets 
the file creation date of the generated HTML files to the date the 
file was processed. What I would really prefer is that it sets it to 
the message date. The reason I would prefer to see that is because I 
use htdig to index my archives for searches and it is the only way 
that I know of to get the message date displayed within the search results.

About a year ago when I was importing and updating some previous 
archives from a majordomo/MHonarc installation, I wrote a Perl script 
to extract the message date and time and used that to set the 
creation date of the message file. While that works, it would be nice 
to have this built into the arch script as an option for those who 
would like it.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Apr 24 19:43:39 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:43:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting the FONT globally for the mailman GUI?
In-Reply-To: <20070424131914.GF16895@charite.de>
References: <20070424131914.GF16895@charite.de>
Message-ID: <p06240802c253f1a1d5cc@[10.0.1.197]>

At 3:19 PM +0200 4/24/07, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:

>  How do I globally set the font the mailman HTML pages use?

Mailman does not (currently) have those kinds of facilities.  See FAQ 3.40.


If you add anything along these lines to Mailman, we would love to 
see your modifications be contributed back to the community.

You should also check the SourceForge patches page to see if anyone 
else has made this kind of a modification, and contributed their 
changes back to the Mailman project, although they may not have (yet) 
been accepted into the mainstream codebase.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Apr 24 19:49:06 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:49:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the Name of the Mailman Machine
In-Reply-To: <200704241734.l3OHY486007029@unreal.eroded.org>
References: <200704241647.l3OGlTVA003832@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
	<PC1760200704241026100000bc35f36a@msapiro>
	<200704241734.l3OHY486007029@unreal.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <p06240803c253f29b1075@[10.0.1.197]>

At 10:35 AM -0700 4/24/07, Dragon wrote:

>  I am curious about this... if the mbox file in question was produced
>  entirely by the stock pipermail archiving functionality of Mailman,
>  is this step really necessary?

The .../listname.mbox/listname.mbox files are the "raw" 7th edition 
mbox-format archives for the list.  They were not created by 
pipermail.  Pipermail takes those files to create the "cooked" 
archives which live in .../archive/private/listname/*, in both text 
and HTML forms.

>  About a year ago when I was importing and updating some previous
>  archives from a majordomo/MHonarc installation, I wrote a Perl script
>  to extract the message date and time and used that to set the
>  creation date of the message file. While that works, it would be nice
>  to have this built into the arch script as an option for those who
>  would like it.

Well, htdig is not a standard part of the Mailman package.  While the 
kind of functionality you'd like to see would be a nice addition, 
it's not there -- at least not yet.

If you'd like to add that feature to bin/arch, we'd love to see that 
contributed back to the Mailman community.  Of course, you should 
also check the SourceForge "patch" page to see if anyone else has 
already added that feature and contributed their code back to the 
community, but which has not (yet) been accepted into the main 
codebase.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 24 20:26:32 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:26:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the Name of the Mailman Machine
In-Reply-To: <200704241734.l3OHY486007029@unreal.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704241126320906dd99dc6a@msapiro>

Dragon wrote:
>
>I am curious about this... if the mbox file in question was produced 
>entirely by the stock pipermail archiving functionality of Mailman, 
>is this step really necessary?


It depends on how old the archives are. Current Mailman relies on the
email library to escape "From " lines in the body of messages written
to the .mbox file, and these should be OK. I think in the distant
past, this wasn't done, so if the .mbox file is old enough, it might
have unescaped "From " lines.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Apr 24 20:29:19 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:29:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating mailman with joomla/mambo
In-Reply-To: <200704240358.52852.david@vizion2000.net>
References: <200704230351.49610.david@vizion2000.net>
	<200704231055.46300.david@vizion2000.net>
	<p06240500c252fb3b2ac6@[10.0.1.199]>
	<200704240358.52852.david@vizion2000.net>
Message-ID: <p06240804c253fa10cfd4@[10.0.1.197]>

At 3:58 AM -0700 4/24/07, David Southwell wrote:

>  IMHO some of the best FAQ's are to be found in the Open Source World and many
>  of the worst come from over highly paid professionals with too much attention
>  to hype and too little devotion to meeting end user requirements.

Pretty much by definition, FAQs and all things like them come from 
the community, and they usually tend to be solely supported by the 
community.  As such, it makes sense that the Free/Libre/Open-Source 
Software (FLOSS) community would be responsible for producing some of 
the best FAQs around, since they're probably one of the biggest and 
most active communities around.

>  The advantage of  open source world is that the best contributions are
>  crafted with care and passion and not with a focus on self interest.

Right, but there's a difference between a FAQ and a definitive O'Reilly book.

What we've got today is the FAQ.  What you're asking for is the O'Reilly book.


While there are people in this community who have the technical 
knowledge that would be required to produce an O'Reilly book, there 
are few people in the world who make good technical writers, and 
there are damn few technical writers who are O'Reilly-quality.  I 
know that I'm not O'Reilly quality.

When it comes to Mailman, there is no known overlap between the 
people who have the necessary technical knowledge and the people who 
have the necessary technical writing talent & skills.

If you have information otherwise, please say so.  I'm sure that 
Barry and others will be relieved to know that someone else is taking 
care of this issue.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From donald.teed at gmail.com  Tue Apr 24 21:17:24 2007
From: donald.teed at gmail.com (D G Teed)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 16:17:24 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Request for some additional configuration features
Message-ID: <dd4da0390704241217r70240076y5d2dede5abb5bdce@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not sure if these are features which I've just not figured out
how to do, or feature requests.

1. We are not interested in RFC 2369 headers in email.  None of our mailing
lists are public lists driven by users opting in/out.  Users are on the list
and
we don't allow them access to the website to flick their options on/off.
I'd like all mailing lists created to have List-* headers suppressed.
I have not seen an option for that in Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py

2. We have an announcements only list to which we would like
to have the moderator-only post it, hold it for moderation
(to prevent accidental use of Send), and also receive a copy to verify
if there were any delivery delays.  We have played with moderation
tag on the user, and followed the guide on how to make a one way
list, but it seems the only solution is to have the moderator
subscribe on another email address so that they can post to
the list as well as receive, while it is one-way list.  Am I missing
a combination of options which provides for this sort of one
way list with a hold for moderation?

Any suggestions are appreciated.

--Donald Teed

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Apr 24 21:37:11 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:37:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Request for some additional configuration
 features
In-Reply-To: <dd4da0390704241217r70240076y5d2dede5abb5bdce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <dd4da0390704241217r70240076y5d2dede5abb5bdce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240806c2540abeb8a1@[10.0.1.197]>

At 4:17 PM -0300 4/24/07, D G Teed wrote:

>  1. We are not interested in RFC 2369 headers in email.  None of our mailing
>  lists are public lists driven by users opting in/out.  Users are on the list
>  and we don't allow them access to the website to flick their options on/off.
>  I'd like all mailing lists created to have List-* headers suppressed.
>  I have not seen an option for that in Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py

See FAQ 4.1.

>  2. We have an announcements only list to which we would like
>  to have the moderator-only post it, hold it for moderation
>  (to prevent accidental use of Send), and also receive a copy to verify
>  if there were any delivery delays.  We have played with moderation
>  tag on the user, and followed the guide on how to make a one way
>  list, but it seems the only solution is to have the moderator
>  subscribe on another email address so that they can post to
>  the list as well as receive, while it is one-way list.  Am I missing
>  a combination of options which provides for this sort of one
>  way list with a hold for moderation?

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking for.  It is possible for a 
list moderator to also be a list member, so that they receive copies 
of all posts to the list.  All that needs to happen there is that 
they go through the same list subscription process as everyone else, 
although you may need to clear their moderation bit depending on how 
they handle the moderation process.

Setting up announcement-only lists is covered in FAQ 3.11, with some 
additional hints in FAQ 3.34.  The only difference might be that you 
set the member_moderation_action to be "hold" instead of "reject".


If there's something about this process which is not clear, please 
help us to understand what you're trying to do and which instructions 
you've tried to follow, and we'll see if there's anything else we can 
do for you.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From ivanlan at pauahtun.org  Tue Apr 24 22:04:12 2007
From: ivanlan at pauahtun.org (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:04:12 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting the FONT globally for the mailman GUI?
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c253f1a1d5cc@10.0.1.197>
References: <20070424131914.GF16895@charite.de>
	<p06240802c253f1a1d5cc@10.0.1.197>
Message-ID: <ba5cdc4b0704241304x383cec85ja68c946aec9e42e5@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All--

On 4/24/07, Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:
> At 3:19 PM +0200 4/24/07, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
>
> >  How do I globally set the font the mailman HTML pages use?
>
> Mailman does not (currently) have those kinds of facilities.  See FAQ 3.40.
>
>
> If you add anything along these lines to Mailman, we would love to
> see your modifications be contributed back to the community.
>
> You should also check the SourceForge patches page to see if anyone
> else has made this kind of a modification, and contributed their
> changes back to the Mailman project, although they may not have (yet)
> been accepted into the mainstream codebase.
>

There's no global option for this, but it's not particularly hard to
do, just a bit fiddly.  I've done it with my lists, with only a few
false starts.  The basic idea is to grep -i through all the config
files, templates and .py files looking for '<head'.  Then edit the
file and plug in a style sheet, something like this:

  <style type="text/css">
  <!--
    td {font-family: Helvetica}
    th {font-family: Helvetica}
     p {font-family: Helvetica}
    h1 {font-family: Helvetica}
    h2 {font-family: Helvetica}
    h3 {font-family: Helvetica}
    caption {font-family: Helvetica}
    li {font-family: Helvetica}
    ul {font-family: Helvetica}
    ol {font-family: Helvetica}
    dl {font-family: Helvetica}
    div {font-family: Helvetica}
    address {font-family: Helvetica}
    body {background-attachment: fixed;font-family:Helvetica;}
  -->
  </style>

Once you make all the changes, restart Mailman for the changes to take effect.

It'd be nice to have an easier way, yes.  We'd have to have a special
web page devoted to Mailman settings, not list settings.  Threel ways
to organize such a meta-page would be: 1) on a per-machine basis; 2)
on a per-list basis; and 3) on a per-virtual-host basis.

Metta,
Ivan
-- 
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.pauahtun.org/
http://www.python.org/workshops/1998-11/proceedings/papers/laningham/laningham.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Tue Apr 24 22:30:26 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:30:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting the FONT globally for the mailman GUI?
In-Reply-To: <ba5cdc4b0704241304x383cec85ja68c946aec9e42e5@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <20070424131914.GF16895@charite.de>
	<p06240802c253f1a1d5cc@10.0.1.197>
	<ba5cdc4b0704241304x383cec85ja68c946aec9e42e5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200704242029.l3OKScfL008692@unreal.eroded.org>

Ivan Van Laningham sent the message below at 13:04 4/24/2007:

>It'd be nice to have an easier way, yes.  We'd have to have a special
>web page devoted to Mailman settings, not list settings.  Threel ways
>to organize such a meta-page would be: 1) on a per-machine basis; 2)
>on a per-list basis; and 3) on a per-virtual-host basis.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Actually no, those are not the best way to do this IMO. If ALL of the 
web pages were template-based, it would be a simple matter of 
defining the CSS you want in a CSS file and adding it to the page header.

Wasn't somebody working on moving everything to a template system for 
the 2.2 branch or was that for 3.0? If so, that would be a nice new 
feature to have.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From ki at knifecenter.com  Tue Apr 24 22:18:54 2007
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 16:18:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] The results of your email commands
Message-ID: <C253DE6E.6D7E%ki@knifecenter.com>

Is there a way to disable to message that is sent automatically from Mailman
when a person subscribes to a list through the mailinglist-join at domain.com
command?

I only want to "welcome message" to be sent, not the "Results of your email
commands" email.

Thanks!



From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Apr 24 22:53:22 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 15:53:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting the FONT globally for the mailman GUI?
In-Reply-To: <200704242029.l3OKScfL008692@unreal.eroded.org>
References: <20070424131914.GF16895@charite.de>
	<p06240802c253f1a1d5cc@10.0.1.197>
	<ba5cdc4b0704241304x383cec85ja68c946aec9e42e5@mail.gmail.com>
	<200704242029.l3OKScfL008692@unreal.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <p06240802c2541d9a2427@[10.0.1.197]>

At 1:30 PM -0700 4/24/07, Dragon wrote:

>  Actually no, those are not the best way to do this IMO. If ALL of the
>  web pages were template-based, it would be a simple matter of
>  defining the CSS you want in a CSS file and adding it to the page header.

Yup, that would be nice.

>  Wasn't somebody working on moving everything to a template system for
>  the 2.2 branch or was that for 3.0? If so, that would be a nice new
>  feature to have.

So far as I know, the latest status on this stuff is in the Mailman 
Wiki Dashboard.  For Mailman 2.2, see 
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Mailman+2.2>.  There are also some 
templating notes at 
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/TemplatingNotes>.

So far as I can tell, the Google Summer of Code 2006 project that 
Ethan Freman was working on to improve the Mailman UI was never 
completed, although he does say that he's hoping to work towards 
getting this stuff incorporated into the 2.3 tree (see 
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/2006/08/20/Summer+of+Code+summary>).

I don't see any other obvious mentions of CSS or templating for 2.x, 
but maybe I've missed something.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 25 00:00:17 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 15:00:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] The results of your email commands
In-Reply-To: <C253DE6E.6D7E%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070424150017043787872086@msapiro>

Ki Song wrote:

>Is there a way to disable to message that is sent automatically from Mailman
>when a person subscribes to a list through the mailinglist-join at domain.com
>command?
>
>I only want to "welcome message" to be sent, not the "Results of your email
>commands" email.


There are two ways. The first, which I recommend, is to require
subscription confirmation. In this case, only the confirmation request
is sent, not the command results message.

The only other way is to modify the code in
Mailman/Commands/cmd_subscribe.py by changing the code at the very end
of the module from

    else:
        # Everything is a-ok
        res.results.append(_('Subscription request succeeded.'))

to

    else:
        # Everything is a-ok
        res.respond = 0

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jhaugen at ctap1.org  Tue Apr 24 23:41:57 2007
From: jhaugen at ctap1.org (Jeff Haugen)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:41:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newb to list serv having errors
Message-ID: <003101c786b9$622608c0$5503010a@vessel008>

Hello Mailman Users:

I am new to list servs and am experiencing the following error when sending
out to the ctap_survey mailing list. Looking for some advice to
remedy...Please advise if you have experienced and resolved this error.
Could someone dechiper this for me. The mailing lists were working with no
known changes...Thank you!

Mailman version 2.1.5


This is the Postfix program at host borg.ctap1.org.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be be delivered
to one or more recipients. It's attached below.

For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster>

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own
text from the attached returned message.

			The Postfix program

<ctap_survey-request at borg.ctap1.org>: Command died with status 2:
    "/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman request ctap_survey". Command output:
    Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be
    executed as group "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the
mail
    script as group "nobody".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the
script
    as group "mailman", or re-run configure,  providing the command line
option
    `--with-mail-gid=nobody'.

Jeff Haugen
Technology Manager
CTAP Region 1
Mendocino Office of Education
(707) 467-5085 office
(707) 468-5781 fax



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 25 00:23:29 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 15:23:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newb to list serv having errors
In-Reply-To: <003101c786b9$622608c0$5503010a@vessel008>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704241523290500270a2f91@msapiro>

Jeff Haugen wrote:
>
>Mailman version 2.1.5
>
>
>This is the Postfix program at host borg.ctap1.org.
>
>I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be be delivered
>to one or more recipients. It's attached below.
>
>For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster>
>
>If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own
>text from the attached returned message.
>
>			The Postfix program
>
><ctap_survey-request at borg.ctap1.org>: Command died with status 2:
>    "/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman request ctap_survey". Command output:
>    Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be
>    executed as group "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the
>mail
>    script as group "nobody".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the
>script
>    as group "mailman", or re-run configure,  providing the command line
>option
>    `--with-mail-gid=nobody'.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>
for information on what this error means.

Normally, if Mailman and Postfix are 'integrated', the Postfix aliases
for Mailman lists are in Mailman's data/aliases* files and these files
are owned by Mailman's user:group.

It seems that perhaps the ownership of these files has changed causing
the above error (Postfix runs the pipe as the user:group of the owner
of the alias file in which the pipe alias is found), or possibly this
is a new list and someone added aliases for it to /etc/aliases or ?
instead of relying on Mailman/Postfix integration to automatically add
the aliases to data/aliases.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Apr 25 04:41:15 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:41:15 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting the FONT globally for the mailman GUI?
In-Reply-To: <200704242029.l3OKScfL008692@unreal.eroded.org>
References: <20070424131914.GF16895@charite.de>
	<p06240802c253f1a1d5cc@10.0.1.197>
	<ba5cdc4b0704241304x383cec85ja68c946aec9e42e5@mail.gmail.com>
	<200704242029.l3OKScfL008692@unreal.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <87tzv5jhv8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Dragon writes:

 > Actually no, those are not the best way to do this IMO. If ALL of the 
 > web pages were template-based, it would be a simple matter of 
 > defining the CSS you want in a CSS file and adding it to the page header.

There's no reason why the programmatically generated pages can't have
a LINK element added to their headers.  Then what needs to be done is
to add appropriate class attributes to the elements in generated content.

I believe it may be possible *now* to accomplish what the OP
requested, however, by the simple expedient of adding an appropriate
header to the HTTP response specifying a style sheet.  I'm pretty sure
that such a header exists, but I have no idea whether IE respects it.


From ivanlan at pauahtun.org  Wed Apr 25 05:42:25 2007
From: ivanlan at pauahtun.org (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 21:42:25 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting the FONT globally for the mailman GUI?
In-Reply-To: <87tzv5jhv8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <20070424131914.GF16895@charite.de>
	<p06240802c253f1a1d5cc@10.0.1.197>
	<ba5cdc4b0704241304x383cec85ja68c946aec9e42e5@mail.gmail.com>
	<200704242029.l3OKScfL008692@unreal.eroded.org>
	<87tzv5jhv8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <ba5cdc4b0704242042hc1926a7u5f047918fd593bec@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All--
Example:

<head>
 <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="/Javascript/GodN.css">
 <link rel="shortcut icon" href="favicon.ico">
 <link rel="icon" href="animated_favicon1.gif" type="image/gif">
 <title>Your Title Here</title>

However, note that the "/Javascript/" path in the link above wouldn't
work for Mailman pages, unless the icons parent directory happened to
coincide with the DocumentRoot directory, and there was a Javascript
directory.  On my particular system, Mailman's idea of DocumentRoot
happens to be /var/www, but none of the virtual hosts has a
DocumentRoot anywhere near that. ;-)

I thought about using the link, actually, but since I had to hand-edit
all the template pages and muck about in the Python code anyway, it
seemed like a toss-up whether I pasted a style sheet or a link to a
style sheet.

If there's an easier way, I'm happy to go back and un-edit those files
in order to do less work to use the link. ;-)

Metta,
Ivan

On 4/24/07, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:
> Dragon writes:
>
>  > Actually no, those are not the best way to do this IMO. If ALL of the
>  > web pages were template-based, it would be a simple matter of
>  > defining the CSS you want in a CSS file and adding it to the page header.
>
> There's no reason why the programmatically generated pages can't have
> a LINK element added to their headers.  Then what needs to be done is
> to add appropriate class attributes to the elements in generated content.
>
> I believe it may be possible *now* to accomplish what the OP
> requested, however, by the simple expedient of adding an appropriate
> header to the HTTP response specifying a style sheet.  I'm pretty sure
> that such a header exists, but I have no idea whether IE respects it.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ivanlan9%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


-- 
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.pauahtun.org/
http://www.python.org/workshops/1998-11/proceedings/papers/laningham/laningham.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Wed Apr 25 07:53:34 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 22:53:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting the FONT globally for the mailman GUI?
In-Reply-To: <87tzv5jhv8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <20070424131914.GF16895@charite.de>
	<p06240802c253f1a1d5cc@10.0.1.197>
	<ba5cdc4b0704241304x383cec85ja68c946aec9e42e5@mail.gmail.com>
	<200704242029.l3OKScfL008692@unreal.eroded.org>
	<87tzv5jhv8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20070425055337.TRPO1235.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>

Stephen J. Turnbull did speak thusly:
>Dragon writes:
>
>  > Actually no, those are not the best way to do this IMO. If ALL of the
>  > web pages were template-based, it would be a simple matter of
>  > defining the CSS you want in a CSS file and adding it to the page header.
>
>There's no reason why the programmatically generated pages can't have
>a LINK element added to their headers.  Then what needs to be done is
>to add appropriate class attributes to the elements in generated content.
>
>I believe it may be possible *now* to accomplish what the OP
>requested, however, by the simple expedient of adding an appropriate
>header to the HTTP response specifying a style sheet.  I'm pretty sure
>that such a header exists, but I have no idea whether IE respects it.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Yes, it could be done now, but it requires changes to the mailman 
code that generates the page.

But, I think that in the long run, converting all HTML output of 
mailman to a template based system with the ability to fully 
customize the interface is the direction it should go.

As for the CSS link header, IE does respect such links, why should it not?

A whole lot of web sites would not display properly on it if it didn't.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Apr 25 08:55:33 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 15:55:33 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting the FONT globally for the mailman GUI?
In-Reply-To: <20070425055337.TRPO1235.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>
References: <20070424131914.GF16895@charite.de>
	<p06240802c253f1a1d5cc@10.0.1.197>
	<ba5cdc4b0704241304x383cec85ja68c946aec9e42e5@mail.gmail.com>
	<200704242029.l3OKScfL008692@unreal.eroded.org>
	<87tzv5jhv8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<20070425055337.TRPO1235.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>
Message-ID: <87lkghj63e.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Dragon writes:

 > Yes, it could be done now, but it requires changes to the mailman 
 > code that generates the page.

But the header I'm talking about is an *HTTP* header.  It seems
plausible that it requires only *one* change to the routine that
marshals the headers or to the httpd configuration, giving a mildly
enormous increase in flexibility.  And it would be a very safe change
for the distribution: simply provide an empty style sheet as default.
IIRC that HTTP header has a rather low precedence in the cascade.

Being suboptimal doesn't prevent it from being pretty useful.<wink>

 > As for the CSS link header, IE does respect such links, why should
 > it not?

Experience shows that Microsoft products don't always conform to
standards, and I can't say that in this case IE does from my own
knowledge, that's all.  My point is simply that the browsers whose
behavior needs tweaking should be checked before going to the effort
of making that change.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Apr 25 08:49:18 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 01:49:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting the FONT globally for the mailman GUI?
In-Reply-To: <20070425055337.TRPO1235.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>
References: <20070424131914.GF16895@charite.de>
	<p06240802c253f1a1d5cc@10.0.1.197>
	<ba5cdc4b0704241304x383cec85ja68c946aec9e42e5@mail.gmail.com>
	<200704242029.l3OKScfL008692@unreal.eroded.org>
	<87tzv5jhv8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<20070425055337.TRPO1235.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>
Message-ID: <p06240801c254aa27158b@[10.0.1.197]>

At 10:53 PM -0700 4/24/07, Dragon wrote:

>  But, I think that in the long run, converting all HTML output of
>  mailman to a template based system with the ability to fully
>  customize the interface is the direction it should go.

I think that Barry (and pretty much everyone else related to the 
project) would agree.  However, who's actually going to write the 
code to do this?  When is that going to be incorporated into the 
mainstream codebase, and for which version?

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From ivanlan at pauahtun.org  Wed Apr 25 13:02:30 2007
From: ivanlan at pauahtun.org (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 05:02:30 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting the FONT globally for the mailman GUI?
In-Reply-To: <87lkghj63e.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <20070424131914.GF16895@charite.de>
	<p06240802c253f1a1d5cc@10.0.1.197>
	<ba5cdc4b0704241304x383cec85ja68c946aec9e42e5@mail.gmail.com>
	<200704242029.l3OKScfL008692@unreal.eroded.org>
	<87tzv5jhv8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<20070425055337.TRPO1235.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>
	<87lkghj63e.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <ba5cdc4b0704250402n74790a7dw3353742e0ff35e4c@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All--

On 4/25/07, Stephen J. Turnbull <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:
>
> But the header I'm talking about is an *HTTP* header.  It seems
> plausible that it requires only *one* change to the routine that
> marshals the headers or to the httpd configuration, giving a mildly
> enormous increase in flexibility.  And it would be a very safe change
> for the distribution: simply provide an empty style sheet as default.
> IIRC that HTTP header has a rather low precedence in the cascade.
>

But the <head> element is not being produced in one place.  It's
inside the templates and it's hard-coded in the Python code.  It would
indeed be both flexible and cool to plug in the link header and
provide an empty css file, but I'm pretty sure you can't do it at a
single place.  It's possible I misunderstand, of course.

> Being suboptimal doesn't prevent it from being pretty useful.<wink>
>

<g>  You could say that about a lot of things.

>  > As for the CSS link header, IE does respect such links, why should
>  > it not?
>
> Experience shows that Microsoft products don't always conform to
> standards, and I can't say that in this case IE does from my own
> knowledge, that's all.  My point is simply that the browsers whose
> behavior needs tweaking should be checked before going to the effort
> of making that change.

All modern major generals--er, browsers obey CSS; there are some
differences in the details, so you end up specifying some things twice
in different ways.  And providing an empty style sheet to start with
means that tweaking is the province of the Mailman-modifier, not the
Mailman-developer. ;-)

Metta,
Ivan
-- 
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.andi-holmes.com/
http://www.python.org/workshops/1998-11/proceedings/papers/laningham/laningham.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours

From carbonnb at gmail.com  Wed Apr 25 14:15:28 2007
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:15:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting the FONT globally for the mailman GUI?
In-Reply-To: <p06240802c2541d9a2427@10.0.1.197>
References: <20070424131914.GF16895@charite.de>
	<p06240802c253f1a1d5cc@10.0.1.197>
	<ba5cdc4b0704241304x383cec85ja68c946aec9e42e5@mail.gmail.com>
	<200704242029.l3OKScfL008692@unreal.eroded.org>
	<p06240802c2541d9a2427@10.0.1.197>
Message-ID: <e04a6c920704250515v7ffd6092x5d2122a9de0d89d7@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/24/07, Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:
> At 1:30 PM -0700 4/24/07, Dragon wrote:
>
> >  Actually no, those are not the best way to do this IMO. If ALL of the
> >  web pages were template-based, it would be a simple matter of
> >  defining the CSS you want in a CSS file and adding it to the page header.
>
> Yup, that would be nice.

I did write a patch a while back to make Mailman's UI XHTML compliant using CSS.

The patch for 2.1.7 is sourceforge tracker # 1415956
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1415956&group_id=103&atid=300103

It also gives the UI the ability to have sitewide headers and footers,
giving the UI the ability to look more the hosts site in general.

Updting it to MM 2.1.9 is one of the many things on my TODO list.
Hopefully soon as I want to get my site upgraded to 2.1.9

-- 
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"

From matt.l.zimmerman at gmail.com  Wed Apr 25 14:55:43 2007
From: matt.l.zimmerman at gmail.com (Matt Zimmerman)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:55:43 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Query
Message-ID: <50852730704250555h30d0164en49488169004619e0@mail.gmail.com>

In mailman is it possible to send a email to a certain list and recieve a
list of the members on that list?

Thanks,

Matt

From chris at westnet.com  Wed Apr 25 15:26:12 2007
From: chris at westnet.com (Christopher X. Candreva)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:26:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting the FONT globally for the mailman GUI?
In-Reply-To: <p06240801c254aa27158b@[10.0.1.197]>
References: <20070424131914.GF16895@charite.de>
	<p06240802c253f1a1d5cc@10.0.1.197>
	<ba5cdc4b0704241304x383cec85ja68c946aec9e42e5@mail.gmail.com>
	<200704242029.l3OKScfL008692@unreal.eroded.org>
	<87tzv5jhv8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<20070425055337.TRPO1235.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>
	<p06240801c254aa27158b@[10.0.1.197]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0704250925370.11466@westnet.com>

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007, Brad Knowles wrote:

> project) would agree.  However, who's actually going to write the 
> code to do this?  When is that going to be incorporated into the 
> mainstream codebase, and for which version?

Is there a standard template library for Python, ala Template::Toolkit for 
perl or Smarty for php ?


==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 948-3162
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/

From ivanlan at pauahtun.org  Wed Apr 25 15:34:43 2007
From: ivanlan at pauahtun.org (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:34:43 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting the FONT globally for the mailman GUI?
In-Reply-To: <e04a6c920704250515v7ffd6092x5d2122a9de0d89d7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070424131914.GF16895@charite.de>
	<p06240802c253f1a1d5cc@10.0.1.197>
	<ba5cdc4b0704241304x383cec85ja68c946aec9e42e5@mail.gmail.com>
	<200704242029.l3OKScfL008692@unreal.eroded.org>
	<p06240802c2541d9a2427@10.0.1.197>
	<e04a6c920704250515v7ffd6092x5d2122a9de0d89d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ba5cdc4b0704250634s1aa5cc50l4df73d6dd550917d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All--
I did a quick experiment.  Here's the <head> I came up with.  Note
that what I had posted earlier, "/Javascript/mailman.css", will not
work, and neither "/mailman.css" nor "mailman.css" will work.
However, it would be easy to make the style sheet dependent on the
list name also:  instead of href="/icons/mailman.css" use
href="/icons/<MM-List-Name>.css", or some permutation of same.

  <HEAD>
  <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="/icons/mailman.css">
  <link rel="shortcut icon" href="/icons/<MM-List-Name>-favicon.ico">
  <link rel="icon" href="/icons/<MM-List-Name>-animated_favicon1.gif"
type="image/gif">
  <TITLE><MM-List-Name> Info Page</TITLE>
  </HEAD>

Remember, I'm on a multiple virtual-host system, with the mailman
setup administered through a control panel (Plesk), so a system on
which one has full control of both the Mailman source code and the
Mailman installation, as well as the web-base administration, might
work otherwise.

Metta,
Ivan

On 4/25/07, Bryan Carbonnell <carbonnb at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 4/24/07, Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:
> > At 1:30 PM -0700 4/24/07, Dragon wrote:
> >
> > >  Actually no, those are not the best way to do this IMO. If ALL of the
> > >  web pages were template-based, it would be a simple matter of
> > >  defining the CSS you want in a CSS file and adding it to the page header.
> >
> > Yup, that would be nice.
>
> I did write a patch a while back to make Mailman's UI XHTML compliant using CSS.
>
> The patch for 2.1.7 is sourceforge tracker # 1415956
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1415956&group_id=103&atid=300103
>
> It also gives the UI the ability to have sitewide headers and footers,
> giving the UI the ability to look more the hosts site in general.
>
> Updting it to MM 2.1.9 is one of the many things on my TODO list.
> Hopefully soon as I want to get my site upgraded to 2.1.9
>
> --
> Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
> Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
> preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
> shouting "What a great ride!"
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ivanlan9%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


-- 
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.pauahtun.org/
http://www.python.org/workshops/1998-11/proceedings/papers/laningham/laningham.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours

From donald.teed at gmail.com  Wed Apr 25 15:44:43 2007
From: donald.teed at gmail.com (D G Teed)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:44:43 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Request for some additional configuration
	features
In-Reply-To: <p06240806c2540abeb8a1@10.0.1.197>
References: <dd4da0390704241217r70240076y5d2dede5abb5bdce@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06240806c2540abeb8a1@10.0.1.197>
Message-ID: <dd4da0390704250644y42fd682v88a2c3cc8b3fb469@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/24/07, Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:
>
> At 4:17 PM -0300 4/24/07, D G Teed wrote:
>
> >  1. We are not interested in RFC 2369 headers in email.  None of our
> mailing
> >  lists are public lists driven by users opting in/out.  Users are on the
> list
> >  and we don't allow them access to the website to flick their options
> on/off.
> >  I'd like all mailing lists created to have List-* headers suppressed.
> >  I have not seen an option for that in Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py
>
> See FAQ 4.1.


If ALLOW_RFC2369_OVERRIDES = NO actually suppresses all LIST-*
headers, I wish it said that.  It doesn't.  It says that it removes the
ability for list admins to suppress the headers.

Inside Defaults.py it says:

# By setting it to No, list
# owners will not be given the option to suppress these headers (although
some
# header suppression may still take place, i.e. for announce-only lists, or
# lists with no archives).

That seems to say that it merely toggles the appearance of the controls for
suppressing
the RFC2369 headers in the web administration.

Is that correct?  What we want is for all lists created, no matter what
sort, to default to
no RFC2369 headers.  It is not practical to edit 2300 lists, although if it
were possible
to script a solution that might be a workaround.


>  2. We have an announcements only list to which we would like
> >  to have the moderator-only post it, hold it for moderation
> >  (to prevent accidental use of Send), and also receive a copy to verify
> >  if there were any delivery delays.  We have played with moderation
> >  tag on the user, and followed the guide on how to make a one way
> >  list, but it seems the only solution is to have the moderator
> >  subscribe on another email address so that they can post to
> >  the list as well as receive, while it is one-way list.  Am I missing
> >  a combination of options which provides for this sort of one
> >  way list with a hold for moderation?
>
> I'm not entirely sure what you're asking for.  It is possible for a
> list moderator to also be a list member, so that they receive copies
> of all posts to the list.  All that needs to happen there is that
> they go through the same list subscription process as everyone else,
> although you may need to clear their moderation bit depending on how
> they handle the moderation process.
>
> Setting up announcement-only lists is covered in FAQ 3.11, with some
> additional hints in FAQ 3.34.  The only difference might be that you
> set the member_moderation_action to be "hold" instead of "reject".
>
>
> If there's something about this process which is not clear, please
> help us to understand what you're trying to do and which instructions
> you've tried to follow, and we'll see if there's anything else we can
> do for you.
>

Yes, we are using reject.  We prefer reject as then it isn't necessary to
go in and search for the real message to release amongst the ones held
from others, and it is better for most list members or non-members to
immediately get a notification that posting is not available to them.

Essentially, we want a one way list, where the list admin is a recipient,
and postings
from the list admin are held for moderation as a safety valve, and all other
posts are rejected with a "I'm sorry you can't post to the list" message.
I would think this combination would be common in the case where
the one way communications to the subscribers requires careful crafting and
double checking before sending, as well as verification of the delivery.

If the list admin was set for no moderation, and yet the list requires
all postings to be held for moderation, then the posting is not held.
So that combo didn't work for us.

The current workaround I've made, is to subscribe the list admin as
recipient
through a gmail account, and have gmail forward emails to her regular work
email
since she does not want to check the second account.  With this method,
I've listed the list admin's work email under Privacy options as a
non-member who can post to the list.  All non-members or members
who post to the list get an immediate reject.  This might be the best
solution
for the present time.

Regards,

--Donald Teed

From srb at umich.edu  Wed Apr 25 16:00:02 2007
From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:00:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] data/pending.pck
Message-ID: <7241A94700C28B0804C61E23@srb.icpsr.umich.edu>

Only because I'm anal-retentive...

Now that our upgrade/migration of Mailman has settled down, I've noticed 
from my nightly 'mmdsr' run that data/pending.pck is just sitting there, 
unchanging.  The last change date on the file is the date of our migration, 
so I have two questions:

    1) What's it used for?
    2) Can I safely delete this copy, assuming that it'll get re-created
       as necessary?

-- 
Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 25 16:27:20 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:27:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] data/pending.pck
In-Reply-To: <7241A94700C28B0804C61E23@srb.icpsr.umich.edu>
Message-ID: <PC176020070425072720015682cd20f0@msapiro>

Steve Burling wrote:
>
>Now that our upgrade/migration of Mailman has settled down, I've noticed 
>from my nightly 'mmdsr' run that data/pending.pck is just sitting there, 
>unchanging.  The last change date on the file is the date of our migration, 
>so I have two questions:
>
>    1) What's it used for?
>    2) Can I safely delete this copy, assuming that it'll get re-created
>       as necessary?


>From the NEWS file for 2.1.5

 - The pending database has been changed from a global pickle file, to a
   unique pickle file per mailing list.

i.e. in 2.1.5 data/pending.pck was deprecated in favor of individual
lists/listname/pending.pck files.

It held information about pending requests such as subscribe and change
of address that were waiting confirmation. It also has the information
about held posts that can be discarded or approved via 'confirm'.

When you send a "confirm xxxxxxxxx" command to listname-request or go
to the web confirm/xxxxxxxxx page, pending.pck is where the xxxxxxxxx
token is looked up to se what's being confirmed.

Pending.pck is not used for admindb requests. Those are kept in
lists/listname/request.pck.

Assuming you upgraded to 2.1.5 or later, your data/pending.pck was
converted to individual lists/listname/pending.pck files and can be
deleted as it is no longer used. Even if it wasn't converted by your
upgrade process, it can still be deleted as all the requests in it
have expired by now.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Apr 25 16:51:01 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 23:51:01 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting the FONT globally for the mailman GUI?
In-Reply-To: <ba5cdc4b0704250402n74790a7dw3353742e0ff35e4c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070424131914.GF16895@charite.de>
	<p06240802c253f1a1d5cc@10.0.1.197>
	<ba5cdc4b0704241304x383cec85ja68c946aec9e42e5@mail.gmail.com>
	<200704242029.l3OKScfL008692@unreal.eroded.org>
	<87tzv5jhv8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<20070425055337.TRPO1235.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>
	<87lkghj63e.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<ba5cdc4b0704250402n74790a7dw3353742e0ff35e4c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87hcr4jyne.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Ivan Van Laningham writes:

 > But the <head> element is not being produced in one place.

I'm not talking about the HEAD element.  Before the HTML, the gods
have placed the HTTP headers.  It seems reasonably likely that there
is one place where an appropriate HTTP header could be inserted in all
replies.

I had a vague recollection that there was an HTTP header that could be
used to associate external resources with an HTTP reply, just as the
LINK element does for an HTML document).  Now that I have time to
look, I can't find a reference to such an entity, so even if it does
exist, it's hardly likely to be implemented.  (If it did, it would be
oh-so-convenient for this purpose ... <shrug> sometimes you just get
lucky, worth a try, no?)

Unless that rings a bell with somebody, we should just forget it, and
move on to discussion of which template language to use for Mailman
2.3.




From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Wed Apr 25 17:02:38 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:02:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting the FONT globally for the mailman GUI?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0704250925370.11466@westnet.com>
References: <20070424131914.GF16895@charite.de>
	<p06240802c253f1a1d5cc@10.0.1.197>
	<ba5cdc4b0704241304x383cec85ja68c946aec9e42e5@mail.gmail.com>
	<200704242029.l3OKScfL008692@unreal.eroded.org>
	<87tzv5jhv8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<20070425055337.TRPO1235.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>
	<p06240801c254aa27158b@[10.0.1.197]>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0704250925370.11466@westnet.com>
Message-ID: <200704251501.l3PF0jct015959@unreal.eroded.org>

Christopher X. Candreva sent the message below at 06:26 4/25/2007:
>On Wed, 25 Apr 2007, Brad Knowles wrote:
>
> > project) would agree.  However, who's actually going to write the
> > code to do this?  When is that going to be incorporated into the
> > mainstream codebase, and for which version?
>
>Is there a standard template library for Python, ala Template::Toolkit for
>perl or Smarty for php ?
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

No, that is why this discussion is going on.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 25 17:12:03 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:12:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Query
In-Reply-To: <50852730704250555h30d0164en49488169004619e0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070425081203089082cd23bd@msapiro>

Matt Zimmerman wrote:

>In mailman is it possible to send a email to a certain list and recieve a
>list of the members on that list?


Send a 'who' command to listname-request at example.com.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 25 17:42:51 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 08:42:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Request for some additional
	configurationfeatures
In-Reply-To: <dd4da0390704250644y42fd682v88a2c3cc8b3fb469@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020070425084251056282cd22a5@msapiro>

D G Teed wrote:
>
>If ALLOW_RFC2369_OVERRIDES = NO actually suppresses all LIST-*
>headers, I wish it said that.  It doesn't.  It says that it removes the
>ability for list admins to suppress the headers.


And that is what it does. It just removes the include_rfc2369_headers
item from the General Options page.


>What we want is for all lists created, no matter what
>sort, to default to
>no RFC2369 headers.  It is not practical to edit 2300 lists, although if it
>were possible
>to script a solution that might be a workaround.


file=`mktemp`
echo > $file include_rfc2369_headers = 0
for list in `bin/list_lists --bare`
do bin/config_list -i $file
done
rm $file

or some such.


To actually make the default for new lists be no rfc 2369 headers, you
would have to edit Mailman/MialList.py. In the definition of InitVars,
change

        self.include_rfc2369_headers = 1

to

        self.include_rfc2369_headers = 0

or you could put say

DEFAULT_INCLUDE_RFC2369_HEADERS = No

in mm_cfg.py and then change the above to

        self.include_rfc2369_headers = \
             mm_cfg.DEFAULT_INCLUDE_RFC2369_HEADERS




>The current workaround I've made, is to subscribe the list admin as
>recipient
>through a gmail account, and have gmail forward emails to her regular work
>email
>since she does not want to check the second account.  With this method,
>I've listed the list admin's work email under Privacy options as a
>non-member who can post to the list.  All non-members or members
>who post to the list get an immediate reject.  This might be the best
>solution
>for the present time.


I guess that works for you, but the preferred method would be to forget
the gmail address and include the list admin's regular email as
another moderated member (moderated so no one can post by spoofing her
address).

Then she can post by including an

Approved: <list_pw>

header in her post.

The Approved: line can also be the first line of the message, but
unless she posts plain text only, this is not a good solution. The
Approved: line will not be recognized in an HTML only post and it is
not 100% reliably removed from the HTML part of a
multipart/alternative post.


The way you are doing it, if I understand correctly, someone else can
post by spoofing her address, so it is no different from just having
her  preferred address as an unmoderated list member.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 25 18:01:02 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:01:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Request for some additionalconfigurationfeatures
In-Reply-To: <PC176020070425084251056282cd22a5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC176020070425090102040682cd21d8@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>file=`mktemp`
>echo > $file include_rfc2369_headers = 0
>for list in `bin/list_lists --bare`
>do bin/config_list -i $file
>done
>rm $file
>
>or some such.


Well, the "or some such" was intended to indicate it wasn't "production
ready", but just to avoid total confusion, the config_list command
should be

do bin/config_list -i $file $list

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at python.org  Wed Apr 25 18:46:09 2007
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:46:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting the FONT globally for the mailman GUI?
In-Reply-To: <200704251501.l3PF0jct015959@unreal.eroded.org>
References: <20070424131914.GF16895@charite.de>
	<p06240802c253f1a1d5cc@10.0.1.197>
	<ba5cdc4b0704241304x383cec85ja68c946aec9e42e5@mail.gmail.com>
	<200704242029.l3OKScfL008692@unreal.eroded.org>
	<87tzv5jhv8.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<20070425055337.TRPO1235.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>
	<p06240801c254aa27158b@[10.0.1.197]>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0704250925370.11466@westnet.com>
	<200704251501.l3PF0jct015959@unreal.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <AA3A2EF1-920F-4EA8-8587-8D949A80EF4D@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Apr 25, 2007, at 11:02 AM, Dragon wrote:

> Christopher X. Candreva sent the message below at 06:26 4/25/2007:
>> On Wed, 25 Apr 2007, Brad Knowles wrote:
>>
>>> project) would agree.  However, who's actually going to write the
>>> code to do this?  When is that going to be incorporated into the
>>> mainstream codebase, and for which version?
>>
>> Is there a standard template library for Python, ala  
>> Template::Toolkit for
>> perl or Smarty for php ?
> ---------------- End original message. ---------------------
>
> No, that is why this discussion is going on.

I invite anyone who is interested in working on this for the next  
version of Mailman to join mailman-developers and discuss the issue  
over there.  Now is a good time, because we have a lot of choices,  
some requirements, and there are lots of opportunities to contribute!

- -Barry

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin)

iQCVAwUBRi+F13EjvBPtnXfVAQJ3lgP+NuOtyrBQFsD4QoL7TIm50nnNA5OPNsRo
lB32vMBXeR9C4DY/brKRmAOoYszEtCFlOGtWv7GQ+vfdI4RBqh8V/IAoJ41n5kvC
01os9O9HCE8LJkJufZ0ijeYzEMduiaFjgjYzMwMd4vNdDg5+TTtEO9NlRgiwTGZT
dR+NbjVDCw8=
=pkf0
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From ACrosman at afsc.org  Thu Apr 26 20:22:19 2007
From: ACrosman at afsc.org (Aaron Crosman)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:22:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server migration problems
Message-ID: <B91F108ADD81414AB2C9CB7449D3CEC703AA5306@DELTA.AFSC.local>

I know this comes up all the time, but having carefully reviewed the FAQ
and archives, I still haven't been able to solve my problem.

 

I'm working on migrating my mailman setup from an old SuSE server to a
new Debian (4.0) server.  For the most part everything has gone
smoothly, but the existing lists have a couple of problems I can't find
the cause.  I  moved the lists, archive, and data directories from the
old server, and ran update, check_perms and check_db on all the lists.

 

If I run list_lists, mailman sees all the lists just fine, but when just
the web interface I don't see anything.  I naturally assumed that had
somehow become private during the move, so I exported the configuration
of one of them, and saw "advertised = True" and while I know in python
it shouldn't matter, I went ahead and updated it to be "advertised = 1",
no difference.  If I browse to the list's admin interface directly it
seems to work.

 

I'm also having trouble getting into the archives.  The files are there,
and the sym-links are correct but the permissions seem to be wrong.  I'm
assuming I'm having a problem similar to the advertising (that mm seems
to be over-tightening permissions somewhat), but I can't find the root
cause.  Any suggestions on where to look?

 

Aaron


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 27 03:23:33 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 18:23:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable member configuration options
In-Reply-To: <284042.70767.qm@web53910.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704261823330343efe1e5d8@msapiro>

John Papapanos wrote:

>
>Thanks both for your replies,
>
>But either I didn't understand your solution correclty
>or I failed to explain my problem adequately in the
>first place.
>
>> John Papapanos  wrote:
>> 
>> >Is there a way to disable users-members from
>> changing 
>> >some or all of their configuration options?
>> 
>> 
>> Only by changing the code in Mailman/Cgi/options.py
>> and
>> Mailman/Commands/cmd_set.py.
>> 
>
>But wouldn't smt like this affect all my lists and 
>not only the one I am interested in ? 


Yes, it would, so the answer is No if you only want to do it for a
subset of lists, unless your modifications included testing for the
list(s) of interest.


>> Perhaps this is the case in some highly unusual
>> situations, but in
>> general it is appropriate for users to have control
>> of their own
>> options.
>
>Well maybe it is not so unusual. My intention on using
>mailman is to provide a web mailing list for my users.
>Up to now all the lists were implemented via the
>/etc/aliases of my mail server. The problem arises
>with
>the fact that my /etc/aliases for a specific list
>apart from the mail addresses in my domain also
>contains some external addresses (eq. yahoo, gmail
>etc.).
>When a spam message that wasn't filtered by my spam
>filter arives to the list it is also forwarded to the
>external addresses making my mail server smt like an
>open relay.
>So I came up with web based lists so that external
>member users can only view the mails from web and not
>messages be delivered to their external accounts.


This is not what Mailman is designed to do.


>> If you do the above, anyone can post to the list,
>> member or not, but
>> only people with addresses in your domain can join
>> the list and visit
>> archives and receive posts.
> 
>I think this is different from what I aim to
>accomplish. In my case I want:
>People from inside and outside my domain to be able to
>become members, post to the list and read the archives
>(as long as they are members)
>But I want mails posted to the list to be forwarded
>only to members whose mail accounts belong to my
>domain.


I misunderstood. From the OP I thought you didn't want non-local users
to be able to read the archive either.


>For eq.
>user1 at mydomain.com and user2 at otherdomain.com are both
>members to the mailman private list
>mylist at mydomain.com.
>
>I want user1 and user2 to be able to read the archives
>and post to the list, but postings would be forwarded
>only to user1 and not user2.
>user2 can only read the mails via the web interface
>while user1 can both read the mails from the web
>interface and his/her mail client.


If I were going to do this, I would implement a custom handler (see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.067.htp>)
to be installed only for the target list(s). I would also make the
target list(s) digestable = No because this won't work for digests.

The custom handler would be installed in a pipline attribute for the
target list(s) immediately following CalcRecips, and it would remove
all addresses from the recips list (in the message metadata) that
aren't in the local domain.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 27 04:31:09 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 19:31:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server migration problems
In-Reply-To: <B91F108ADD81414AB2C9CB7449D3CEC703AA5306@DELTA.AFSC.local>
Message-ID: <PC17602007042619310901407ac52255@msapiro>



----- Original Message ---------------

Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server migration problems
   From: "Aaron Crosman" <ACrosman at afsc.org>
   Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:22:19 -0400
     To: <mailman-users at python.org>

>I know this comes up all the time, but having carefully reviewed the FAQ
>and archives, I still haven't been able to solve my problem.
>
> 
>
>I'm working on migrating my mailman setup from an old SuSE server to a
>new Debian (4.0) server.  For the most part everything has gone
>smoothly, but the existing lists have a couple of problems I can't find
>the cause.  I  moved the lists, archive, and data directories from the
>old server, and ran update, check_perms and check_db on all the lists.
>
> 
>
>If I run list_lists, mailman sees all the lists just fine, but when just
>the web interface I don't see anything.  I naturally assumed that had
>somehow become private during the move, so I exported the configuration
>of one of them, and saw "advertised = True" and while I know in python
>it shouldn't matter, I went ahead and updated it to be "advertised = 1",
>no difference.  If I browse to the list's admin interface directly it
>seems to work.


This certainly seems like FAQ 4.62 to me
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.062.htp>.
Have you run fix_url?


>I'm also having trouble getting into the archives.  The files are there,
>and the sym-links are correct but the permissions seem to be wrong.


And what are they? And what's in the web server's error log?


>I'm
>assuming I'm having a problem similar to the advertising (that mm seems
>to be over-tightening permissions somewhat), but I can't find the root
>cause.  Any suggestions on where to look?


Look at the permissions and whether the web server is allowed to follow
symlinks, and if all that is OK, it might be a SeLinux or other kind
of security polict issue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bjames at cisco.com  Fri Apr 27 07:49:21 2007
From: bjames at cisco.com (bjames at cisco.com)
Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 22:49:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Lists stop working
Message-ID: <200704270549.l3R5nL910030@cathode.cisco.com>

Did you ever find a solution to this issue?

I realize that this is a really old posting:

	I send an eMail to one of the lists, I can see in my /var/log/maillog;

	     Jun 10 11:27:03 osiris sendmail[2756]: h5A9R392002756:
	     from=<Niklas.Nikitin at xxx
             <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users> >,
             size=502, class=0, nrcpts=1,
	     msgid=<5.2.1.1.2.20030610112857.00b9b740 at xxx
             <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users> >,
             proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA,
	     relay=cassini.xxx [193.10.220.37]

	     Jun 10 11:27:03 osiris sendmail[2757]: h5A9R392002756:
	     to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post nicke-test",
	     ctladdr=<nicke-test at xxx
             <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users> > (8/0),
             delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00,
	     mailer=prog, pri=30704, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent

	that the server is receiving the eMail and is forwarding it to
        Mailman. But in Mailman's logs I will not find any information
        that it has received the eMail and no eMail is sent to the members
        on the list. If I dump all members of the list to a file, remove
        the list, create the list again and add all members, the list is
        working again for a while, and then it repeats again.

but I've run into a very similar problem with two mailing lists that are
managed using the current release of Mailman.

The first symptom was that messages sent to the mailing lists were not
distributed to the list, and did not show up in the list archive.

After my ISP reinstalled Mailman, messages to the list started to show
up in the list archive again. But the messages were still not distributed
to members of the list.

We found that if we add a new user, then a message to the list *is*
delivered to that new user, but still not to any of the existing users.

If the *new* user posts a message, that message appears in the list
archive and the message is delivered to the entire mailing list.

There doesn't seem to be a way to dump and reload the mailing list that
preserves all per-list-member configuration options, so if possible,
we'd like to avoid that workaround.  Especially if it only works
temporarily.

Any insight / help / pointers appreciated.

Beau

From david at vizion2000.net  Fri Apr 27 10:58:48 2007
From: david at vizion2000.net (David Southwell)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 01:58:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists stop working
In-Reply-To: <200704270549.l3R5nL910030@cathode.cisco.com>
References: <200704270549.l3R5nL910030@cathode.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <200704270158.48900.david@vizion2000.net>

On Thursday 26 April 2007 22:49:21 bjames at cisco.com wrote:
> Did you ever find a solution to this issue?
>
> I realize that this is a really old posting:
>
> 	I send an eMail to one of the lists, I can see in my /var/log/maillog;
>
> 	     Jun 10 11:27:03 osiris sendmail[2756]: h5A9R392002756:
> 	     from=<Niklas.Nikitin at xxx
>              <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users> >,
>              size=502, class=0, nrcpts=1,
> 	     msgid=<5.2.1.1.2.20030610112857.00b9b740 at xxx
>              <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users> >,
>              proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA,
> 	     relay=cassini.xxx [193.10.220.37]
>
> 	     Jun 10 11:27:03 osiris sendmail[2757]: h5A9R392002756:
> 	     to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post nicke-test",
> 	     ctladdr=<nicke-test at xxx
>              <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users> >
> (8/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00,
> 	     mailer=prog, pri=30704, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
>
> 	that the server is receiving the eMail and is forwarding it to
>         Mailman. But in Mailman's logs I will not find any information
>         that it has received the eMail and no eMail is sent to the members
>         on the list. If I dump all members of the list to a file, remove
>         the list, create the list again and add all members, the list is
>         working again for a while, and then it repeats again.
>
> but I've run into a very similar problem with two mailing lists that are
> managed using the current release of Mailman.
>
> The first symptom was that messages sent to the mailing lists were not
> distributed to the list, and did not show up in the list archive.
>
> After my ISP reinstalled Mailman, messages to the list started to show
> up in the list archive again. But the messages were still not distributed
> to members of the list.
>
> We found that if we add a new user, then a message to the list *is*
> delivered to that new user, but still not to any of the existing users.
>
> If the *new* user posts a message, that message appears in the list
> archive and the message is delivered to the entire mailing list.
>
> There doesn't seem to be a way to dump and reload the mailing list that
> preserves all per-list-member configuration options, so if possible,
> we'd like to avoid that workaround.  Especially if it only works
> temporarily.
>
> Any insight / help / pointers appreciated.
>
I had an oddity which may/maynot have some relevance..

We subscribed someone to a list with a specific email address. They confirmed 
the subscription using web interface. Subsequently mails from that member 
were received in the way you described and were passed to mailman but did not 
get posted to the list.

I suggest you  examine the headers  of incoming mails,as they are intially 
received, and outgoing mails to those subscribers who are not receiving the 
mails.. There could be some changes being made to the headers either by the 
subscribers server or your own that is causing mails to be not delivered.

david


From R.E.Sonneveld at sonnection.nl  Fri Apr 27 13:12:40 2007
From: R.E.Sonneveld at sonnection.nl (Rolf E. Sonneveld)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:12:40 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists stop working
In-Reply-To: <200704270549.l3R5nL910030@cathode.cisco.com>
References: <200704270549.l3R5nL910030@cathode.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <4631DAA8.2050907@sonnection.nl>

bjames at cisco.com wrote:
> Did you ever find a solution to this issue?
>
> I realize that this is a really old posting:
>
> 	I send an eMail to one of the lists, I can see in my /var/log/maillog;
>
> 	     Jun 10 11:27:03 osiris sendmail[2756]: h5A9R392002756:
> 	     from=<Niklas.Nikitin at xxx
>              <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users> >,
>              size=502, class=0, nrcpts=1,
> 	     msgid=<5.2.1.1.2.20030610112857.00b9b740 at xxx
>              <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users> >,
>              proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA,
> 	     relay=cassini.xxx [193.10.220.37]
>
> 	     Jun 10 11:27:03 osiris sendmail[2757]: h5A9R392002756:
> 	     to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post nicke-test",
> 	     ctladdr=<nicke-test at xxx
>              <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users> > (8/0),
>              delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00,
> 	     mailer=prog, pri=30704, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
>
> 	that the server is receiving the eMail and is forwarding it to
>         Mailman. But in Mailman's logs I will not find any information
>         that it has received the eMail and no eMail is sent to the members
>         on the list. If I dump all members of the list to a file, remove
>         the list, create the list again and add all members, the list is
>         working again for a while, and then it repeats again.
>
> but I've run into a very similar problem with two mailing lists that are
> managed using the current release of Mailman.
>
> The first symptom was that messages sent to the mailing lists were not
> distributed to the list, and did not show up in the list archive.
>
> After my ISP reinstalled Mailman, messages to the list started to show
> up in the list archive again. But the messages were still not distributed
> to members of the list.
>
> We found that if we add a new user, then a message to the list *is*
> delivered to that new user, but still not to any of the existing users.
>
> If the *new* user posts a message, that message appears in the list
> archive and the message is delivered to the entire mailing list.
>
> There doesn't seem to be a way to dump and reload the mailing list that
> preserves all per-list-member configuration options, so if possible,
> we'd like to avoid that workaround.  Especially if it only works
> temporarily.
>
> Any insight / help / pointers appreciated.
>   

today I have a similar (or the same?) problem. Running Mailman V2.1.9. 
Symptoms in my case: a new member (added with the command line utility 
add_members) is subscribed properly, the associated mail address gets a 
welcome message (so far so good), but mail to the mailing list arrives 
at Mailman, but is not distributed to the new user. I tried adding a 
second user, but the same problem.

I have checked a number of things from the FAQ to diagnose the problem 
but I see nothing unusual. No traces in the logs directory. And I'm sure 
Mailman has accepted the mail for further processing (I can see from the 
mail logs).

How can I trace these messages in Mailman? I looked in the qfiles/ 
subdirectories, but no files there... Is there any logging/debugging 
that can be turned on to see what steps Mailman takes to a) process the 
mail, (b) expand the mailing list and c) deliver the mail to the mail 
server. SMTP settings are default. Or is there any utility to quickly 
see what messages are in the Mailman queue for processing?

/rolf


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Apr 27 14:39:34 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 21:39:34 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists stop working
In-Reply-To: <4631DAA8.2050907@sonnection.nl>
References: <200704270549.l3R5nL910030@cathode.cisco.com>
	<4631DAA8.2050907@sonnection.nl>
Message-ID: <87ps5qhtyx.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Rolf E. Sonneveld writes:

 > today I have a similar (or the same?) problem. Running Mailman V2.1.9. 
 > Symptoms in my case: a new member (added with the command line utility 
 > add_members) is subscribed properly, the associated mail address gets a 
 > welcome message (so far so good), but mail to the mailing list arrives 
 > at Mailman, but is not distributed to the new user. I tried adding a 
 > second user, but the same problem.

Have posts ever been delivered to any user?  If not, the most likely
Mailman-related problem is that due to your settings, the posts are
being held.  Have you checked the moderation interface?  More likely
IMO is that Mailman never received the posts because of failure to
start Mailman's qrunners properly, or misconfiguration of the MTA.

 > I have checked a number of things from the FAQ to diagnose the problem 
 > but I see nothing unusual. No traces in the logs directory. And I'm sure 
 > Mailman has accepted the mail for further processing (I can see from the 
 > mail logs).

On the contrary, if Mailman isn't writing to its logs and there's
nothing in the qfiles directories, it seems very likely that Mailman
has never received the messages.

Are there entries in logs/qrunner showing that all qrunners are
working?  Mine says:

    Oct 18 17:14:29 2006 (15648) ArchRunner qrunner started.
    Oct 18 17:14:30 2006 (15649) BounceRunner qrunner started.
    Oct 18 17:14:33 2006 (15650) CommandRunner qrunner started.
    Oct 18 17:14:35 2006 (15653) NewsRunner qrunner started.
    Oct 18 17:14:35 2006 (15655) VirginRunner qrunner started.
    Oct 18 17:14:35 2006 (15651) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
    Oct 18 17:14:35 2006 (15654) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
    Oct 18 17:14:36 2006 (15656) RetryRunner qrunner started.

Does ps show that they are still running?

Fairly early in message processing, Mailman logs to either logs/post
(showing that the post was accepted) or to logs/vette (indicating that
the post was held or rejected, and why).  When the post is delivered,
there will be an entry in logs/smtp for each batch of deliveries
(usually one per remote host, or one per user if personalization or
VERP is being used).  Are there really no logs at all?  If there are
logs, what do they say?

 > How can I trace these messages in Mailman? I looked in the qfiles/ 
 > subdirectories, but no files there...

Have you checked your MTA's queue?  Based on your statements that
there is nothing in the logs and nothing in the queues, I have to
believe they're never getting to Mailman at all.

 > Is there any logging/debugging  that can be turned on

No; the logs described plus the qfiles contain all the information
that you should need for problems related to the delivery pipeline.

 > Or is there any utility to quickly see what messages are in the
 > Mailman queue for processing?

To see what's there, I just use "ls -R /var/lib/mailman/qfiles" (YMMV
depending on where Mailman is installed).  To examine the qfiles
themselves, use "cd /var/lib/mailman; bin/show_qfiles qfiles/in/*"
(again, the cd directory will vary according to your installation).



From jrlamar at owu.edu  Fri Apr 27 16:12:00 2007
From: jrlamar at owu.edu (Jason LaMar)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:12:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Quick question about spam filtering
Message-ID: <C2577CF0.2F427%jrlamar@owu.edu>

Lately, our Mailman lists have been getting more "self-addressed" junk
messages -- that is, listname at whatever.com gets spam that is spoofing
listname at whatever.com as the sender.

In the spam filtering interface, what would be the easiest regex combination
to ensure that, as an example, listname at whatever.com would automatically
discard any "self-addressed" messages in this manner? One of the related
complications seems to be that the sender (From) name identity is always
different -- but the @ address is always the same, of course.

This is probably really easy, but I'm still a regular expression novice.



Thanks,

Jason

_________________________

Jason LaMar
Director of Information Services
Ohio Wesleyan University | Delaware, OH 43015
IP Tel: 740-368-3131 | AIM/Yahoo IM: jasonrlamar
Fax: 740-368-3272 | Web: http://www.owu.edu/



From david at vizion2000.net  Fri Apr 27 17:01:10 2007
From: david at vizion2000.net (David Southwell)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:01:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] certificates for subscribers..application to
	provide and check???
Message-ID: <200704270801.10325.david@vizion2000.net>

Hi

Before starting to build it ?I am wondering if anyone knows of a port that 
will do what I require. I am reluctant (and too lazy <chuckles>) to want to 
reinvent the wheel!!!

I want to offer?maillist users a certificate, signed 
by us, that they will be asked ?to use to certify their identity when posting 
to the list. 

I want them to apply and obtain  the certificate using the the maillist 
web site and for us to keep the records in ?a mysql database. 

I would also like to incorporate certificate checking as part of the process 
of validating incoming mails presented for posting to a list. 

For some lists, where we have a means of being able to be sure of user 
identity and a security need, ?I want to reject uncertified mails. In other 
cases I simply want to add a warning in the first line of the Body when the 
mail is uncertified.

Thanks in advance
david

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 27 18:08:07 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:08:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists stop working
In-Reply-To: <87ps5qhtyx.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704270908070031a8601b46@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>
>Fairly early in message processing, Mailman logs to either logs/post
>(showing that the post was accepted) or to logs/vette (indicating that
>the post was held or rejected, and why).


One minor point here. The post log entry is not written until the
message is delivered by SMTPDirect.


>When the post is delivered,
>there will be an entry in logs/smtp for each batch of deliveries
>(usually one per remote host, or one per user if personalization or
>VERP is being used).


Actually, if nothing goes wrong, there will be only one entry in the
smtp log covering all deliveries. If things go wrong there will be
perhaps multiple entries in both smtp and smtp-failure logs.


In spite of the minor corrections above, Stephen's advice is excellent.

To elaborate on Rolf's question about how Mailman processes a post.
Assuming a standard configuration where the MTA delivers to the
mail/mailman wrapper.

1) The MTA pipes the message to the wrapper which passes it to the
scripts/post script which in turn places it in the qfiles/in queue.
Nothing is logged in Mailman, but the MTA normally logs the delivery.

2) IncomingRunner picks up the queue entry from qfiles/in and passes it
through a pipeline of handlers (GLOBAL_PIPELINE - defined in
Defaults.py, possibly modified in mm_cfg.py - unless the list defines
a pipeline attribute to override it). The initial handlers check
header_filter_rules, look for an Approved: header and possibly
generate an autoresponse. The next set of handlers checks for
moderation and other holds and does content filtering, emergency
moderation and topic flagging. Any of these handlers can raise
exceptions to request IncomingRunner to discard, reject or hold the
message at that point. Discards and holds are logged in the vette log.
Rejects are not logged, but result in a reject message to the poster.
Any other exceptions cause the message to be moved to qfiles/shunt and
the exception is logged in the error log.

The next set of handlers determines the recipient addresses and
possibly removes and/or modifies some message headers.

Then handlers add the message to lists/<listname>/digest.mbox if the
list is digestable (and possibly trigger a digest on size), add the
message to qfiles/archive for processing by ArchRunner, possibly add
the message to qfiles/news for processing by NewsRunner, update the
list's last_post_time, send an acknowledgement to the poster if
requested, and add the message to qfiles/out for processing by
OutgoingRunner.

3) ArchRunner picks up the queue entry from qfiles/archive and adds it
the the list's archive.

4)NewsRunner picks up the queue entry from qfiles/news and delivers it
to Usenet.

5)OutgoingRunner picks up the queue entry from qfiles/out and calls
SMTPDirect to deliver it to the outgoing MTA via SMTP. SMTPDirect logs
posts to the post log and logs a bit more detail to the smtp log. Any
SMTP failures are logged to the smtp-failure log and treated as
bounces or queued for retry as appropriate.

6) Any unanticipated exceptions in any of the runners cause the message
to be moved to qfiles/shunt and the exception to be logged in the
error log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 27 18:21:22 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:21:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server migration problems
In-Reply-To: <B91F108ADD81414AB2C9CB7449D3CEC703AA55A1@DELTA.AFSC.local>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704270921220593ef3fe167@msapiro>

Aaron Crosman wrote:
>
>The archives problem persists.  You gave me the right place to look here
>as well.  The archives are all owned by list (group list), but the
>private archives have restricted access that blocks other users from
>getting in:
>ls of /var/lib/mailman/archives:
>drwxrws--- 200 list list 8.0K 2007-04-25 14:26 private
>drwxrwsr-x   2 list list 4.0K 2007-04-25 14:23 public


I think this is OS dependent, but in most cases, permissions on
archives/private need to be 'drwxrws--x'. It is the o+x that is
critical for public archive access.

archives/public/listname is a symlink to archives/private/listname, and
archives/private/listname is world readable, but it still can't be
accessed by others, at least in most *nix flavors, unless
archives/private/ is world searchable.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From acrosman at afsc.org  Fri Apr 27 18:24:30 2007
From: acrosman at afsc.org (Aaron Crosman)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:24:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server migration problems
Message-ID: <C2579BFE.29CDA%acrosman@afsc.org>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 10:31 PM
> To: Aaron Crosman; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Server migration problems
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ---------------
> 
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server migration problems
>    From: "Aaron Crosman" <ACrosman at afsc.org>
>    Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:22:19 -0400
>      To: <mailman-users at python.org>
> 
> >I know this comes up all the time, but having carefully reviewed the
> FAQ
> >and archives, I still haven't been able to solve my problem.
> >
> >
> >
> >I'm working on migrating my mailman setup from an old SuSE server to
a
> >new Debian (4.0) server.  For the most part everything has gone
> >smoothly, but the existing lists have a couple of problems I can't
> find
> >the cause.  I  moved the lists, archive, and data directories from
the
> >old server, and ran update, check_perms and check_db on all the
lists.
> >
> >
> >
> >If I run list_lists, mailman sees all the lists just fine, but when
> just
> >the web interface I don't see anything.  I naturally assumed that had
> >somehow become private during the move, so I exported the
> configuration
> >of one of them, and saw "advertised = True" and while I know in
python
> >it shouldn't matter, I went ahead and updated it to be "advertised =
> 1",
> >no difference.  If I browse to the list's admin interface directly it
> >seems to work.
> 
> 
> This certainly seems like FAQ 4.62 to me
>
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.062.htp>.
> Have you run fix_url?
> 
> 
> >I'm also having trouble getting into the archives.  The files are
> there,
> >and the sym-links are correct but the permissions seem to be wrong.
> 
> 
> And what are they? And what's in the web server's error log?
> 
> 
> >I'm
> >assuming I'm having a problem similar to the advertising (that mm
> seems
> >to be over-tightening permissions somewhat), but I can't find the
root
> >cause.  Any suggestions on where to look?
> 
> 
> Look at the permissions and whether the web server is allowed to
follow
> symlinks, and if all that is OK, it might be a SeLinux or other kind
> of security polict issue.
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

Thanks, you were right on about the domain problem.  I looked right
passed it, since the server will end up at the same domain, but
currently I'm accessing by IP address (I hosts file update on my local
machine solved that problem).

The archives problem persists.  You gave me the right place to look here
as well.  The archives are all owned by list (group list), but the
private archives have restricted access that blocks other users from
getting in:  
ls of /var/lib/mailman/archives:
drwxrws--- 200 list list 8.0K 2007-04-25 14:26 private
drwxrwsr-x   2 list list 4.0K 2007-04-25 14:23 public

A sample from the private directory is:
drwxrwsr-x  4 list list 4.0K 2007-04-25 14:18 itd_test

Apache's error log:
[Fri Apr 27 11:42:14 2007] [error] [client 172.17.201.205] Symbolic link
not allowed or link target not accessible:
/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/itd_test, referer:
http://server.org/mailman/listinfo/itd_test

I can't browse the file system (in bash) to those directories.  I did
double check the links in public as root, and they do work just fine, so
I'm at a permissions problem.  What should the perms here be?  Or am I
missing something else?

Aaron


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 27 18:31:44 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 09:31:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Quick question about spam filtering
In-Reply-To: <C2577CF0.2F427%jrlamar@owu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602007042709314409843b885424@msapiro>

Jason LaMar 
>
>In the spam filtering interface, what would be the easiest regex combination
>to ensure that, as an example, listname at whatever.com would automatically
>discard any "self-addressed" messages in this manner?

In header_filter_rules, put the following regexp.

^from:.*\slistname at whatever\.com\s

This will match a header beginning with From: (these regexps are
matched case insensitively) followed by anything followed by the
whitespace delimited email address.

See <http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tamakh at gmail.com  Fri Apr 27 18:50:53 2007
From: tamakh at gmail.com (Tamakh)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:50:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] multiple list in the To: field
Message-ID: <3aaf864f0704270950m5ca5a8e6oe5a3a48da739b3e1@mail.gmail.com>

I have 12 school list that at times I need to post the same message to ALL
the list but the server rejects it thinking its spam.  Is there an option
that I can turn off or is there a way to send to 12 mailman list all at
once?

Thank you!
-Tam

From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Apr 27 19:08:49 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:08:49 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists stop working
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200704270908070031a8601b46@msapiro>
References: <87ps5qhtyx.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<PC1760200704270908070031a8601b46@msapiro>
Message-ID: <87lkgdiw2m.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:
 > Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

 > >When the post is delivered,
 > >there will be an entry in logs/smtp for each batch of deliveries
 > >(usually one per remote host, or one per user if personalization or
 > >VERP is being used).
 > 
 > Actually, if nothing goes wrong, there will be only one entry in the
 > smtp log covering all deliveries. If things go wrong there will be
 > perhaps multiple entries in both smtp and smtp-failure logs.

Ah, OK ... the "1 recips" logs I'm seeing are mass signups and perhaps
bounce checks.  Sorry for the inaccuracy.

From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Apr 27 19:15:40 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:15:40 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Quick question about spam filtering
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007042709314409843b885424@msapiro>
References: <C2577CF0.2F427%jrlamar@owu.edu>
	<PC17602007042709314409843b885424@msapiro>
Message-ID: <87k5vxivr7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > In header_filter_rules, put the following regexp.
 > 
 > ^from:.*\slistname at whatever\.com\s

Isn't that going to lose on (1) Bogus Name <listname at whatever.com> and
on (2) ... listname at whatever.com{END-OF-LINE} ?


From test at social.soc.uoc.gr  Fri Apr 27 18:37:09 2007
From: test at social.soc.uoc.gr (test at social.soc.uoc.gr)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:37:09 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maiman, problem with greek characters
Message-ID: <9911.194.63.217.205.1177691829.squirrel@social.soc.uoc.gr>

X-Faculty of Social Sciences-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information
X-Faculty of Social Sciences-MailScanner: Found to be clean
X-Faculty of Social Sciences-MailScanner-From: test at social.soc.uoc.gr
X-Spam-Status: No

Hi,

I have installed the latest version of mailman in a mail server running
postfix. The problem is with emails that contain greek characters. If the
encoding is iso-8859-7 or windows-1253, all the body text is encoded as
base64. The result of it is that the recipients cannot read the received
emails.
 In case a user sends an email with multipart/mixed encoding everything is
ok.
 I've added a new line in Defauls.py containing the iso-8859-7 but it does
not work.

Does anyone have a better idea?

Thanks in advance,

Alexandros


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


From ivanlan at pauahtun.org  Fri Apr 27 19:58:16 2007
From: ivanlan at pauahtun.org (Ivan Van Laningham)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:58:16 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Server migration problems
In-Reply-To: <C2579BFE.29CDA%acrosman@afsc.org>
References: <C2579BFE.29CDA%acrosman@afsc.org>
Message-ID: <ba5cdc4b0704271058w570bb225s76f4f22f111a816b@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All--

On 4/27/07, Aaron Crosman <acrosman at afsc.org> wrote:
>
> Apache's error log:
> [Fri Apr 27 11:42:14 2007] [error] [client 172.17.201.205] Symbolic link
> not allowed or link target not accessible:
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/itd_test, referer:
> http://server.org/mailman/listinfo/itd_test
>
> I can't browse the file system (in bash) to those directories.  I did
> double check the links in public as root, and they do work just fine, so
> I'm at a permissions problem.  What should the perms here be?  Or am I
> missing something else?
>

Unless I'm missing something, this is an Apache configuration problem.
 It both has to know about the mailman directories and be allowed to
follow symbolic links.  Permissions have to be correct yes, but if
Apache can't follow links then the permissions are moot.  Include this
directive in your httpd.conf file:

	Options FollowSymLinks

You must provide it for any directory you need to put symlinks in.  For example:

Alias /icons/ "/usr/share/apache2/icons/"
<Directory "/usr/share/apache2/icons">
    Options FollowSymLinks
    blah blah blah ...
</Directory>

Of course, the directories listed in httpd.conf are dependent on your
*nix, as is the location (and name) of the httpd.conf file.

Metta,
Ivan
-- 
Ivan Van Laningham
God N Locomotive Works
http://www.pauahtun.org/
http://www.python.org/workshops/1998-11/proceedings/papers/laningham/laningham.html
Army Signal Corps:  Cu Chi, Class of '70
Author:  Teach Yourself Python in 24 Hours

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 27 20:01:16 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:01:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] multiple list in the To: field
In-Reply-To: <3aaf864f0704270950m5ca5a8e6oe5a3a48da739b3e1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007042711011608901dbe27ca@msapiro>

Tamakh wrote:

>I have 12 school list that at times I need to post the same message to ALL
>the list but the server rejects it thinking its spam.


Rejects or Holds?


>Is there an option
>that I can turn off or is there a way to send to 12 mailman list all at
>once?


Set Privacy options->Recipient filters->max_num_recipients to a number
> 12 or to 0 for no limit.

Or create an umbrella list with the 12 lists as members and post to the
umbrella. Search the FAQ wizard
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> for umbrella.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Apr 27 19:41:24 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:41:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] certificates for subscribers..application to
 provide and check???
In-Reply-To: <200704270801.10325.david@vizion2000.net>
References: <200704270801.10325.david@vizion2000.net>
Message-ID: <p06240800c257e5d60cf3@[10.0.1.197]>

On 4/27/07, David Southwell wrote:

>  For some lists, where we have a means of being able to be sure of user
>  identity and a security need,  I want to reject uncertified mails. In other
>  cases I simply want to add a warning in the first line of the Body when the
>  mail is uncertified.

Everything you've talked about is completely outside the realm of 
Mailman.  The certificate database creation/management system (with 
web user interface), the certificate database checking system (within 
the MTA), etc....

I'm not sure that there's anything that we can do to help you with 
any of these things.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Apr 27 20:12:48 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:12:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maiman, problem with greek characters
In-Reply-To: <9911.194.63.217.205.1177691829.squirrel@social.soc.uoc.gr>
References: <9911.194.63.217.205.1177691829.squirrel@social.soc.uoc.gr>
Message-ID: <p06240805c257ec047fbc@[10.0.1.197]>

On 4/27/07, test at social.soc.uoc.gr wrote:

>  I have installed the latest version of mailman in a mail server running
>  postfix. The problem is with emails that contain greek characters. If the
>  encoding is iso-8859-7 or windows-1253, all the body text is encoded as
>  base64. The result of it is that the recipients cannot read the received
>  emails.

This is not a Mailman problem.  This is caused by either your mail 
client generating base64, or the message being converted when it hits 
the MTA.

Get the client or the MTA fixed, and Mailman should handle the result 
just fine.

>  In case a user sends an email with multipart/mixed encoding everything is
>  ok.

So what's the problem with having them send multipart/mixed?


Keep in mind that your content-transfer-encoding is completely 
orthogonal to the charset, and both of which are completely 
orthogonal to the MIME bodypart type.  A client or intermediary MTA 
could change just one of these three things, and some recipients 
would deal with that change just fine, while others would freak out.

Theoretically, all clients should be fine with all possible values in 
each of these three categories, and they should handle it properly. 
In practice, most of them are extremely fragile in their handling of 
these things, and even just looking at them cross-eyed can make them 
barf and die horribly.

Welcome to the wonderful world of MIME.

>  I've added a new line in Defauls.py containing the iso-8859-7 but it does
>  not work.

Don't edit Defaults.py.  That file will get overwritten in an 
upgrade.  Edit mm_cfg.py instead.  Also make sure that you restart 
Mailman after changes to mm_cfg.py.  Note that many changes to 
mm_cfg.py will only affect lists created after the change is made, 
and won't have any impact on any existing lists.  So, you may need to 
delete and re-create your list(s) after making changes to mm_cfg.py.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 27 20:18:37 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:18:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Quick question about spam filtering
In-Reply-To: <87k5vxivr7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704271118370328c932d3ed@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>Mark Sapiro writes:
>
> > In header_filter_rules, put the following regexp.
> > 
> > ^from:.*\slistname at whatever\.com\s
>
>Isn't that going to lose on (1) Bogus Name <listname at whatever.com>


Yes. I totally overlooked <>. It needs to be

^from:.*[\s<]listname at whatever\.com[\s>]


>and
>on (2) ... listname at whatever.com{END-OF-LINE} ?


No. \s will match end of line (\n or \r).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Brandon at WebsterRidge.com  Fri Apr 27 20:37:36 2007
From: Brandon at WebsterRidge.com (Brandon Sussman)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:37:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Placing a copyright notice in list messages.
Message-ID: <463242F0.30806@WebsterRidge.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Can a copyright notice containing the sender's name be automatically placed in
regular mailman list messages?
- --
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
|/\/\ /\/\ /\/\   Webster Ridge Farm       |    http://WebsterRidge.com |
|\oo/ \--/ \--/   Brandon and Mary Sussman |              (603)648-2595 |
|=\/= =\/= =\/=   1482 Pleasant St.        |      N 43.32558 W 71.70835 |
| Sleep Well...   Webster, NH, 03303-7613  |                19TBJ800015 |
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Lamb, Poultry, Eggs, Quilts and Web Sites |Think Locally, Buy Locally! |
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux)

iQEVAwUBRjJC7NN2DJl/zagkAQLILAf/QH3O9RorXp6qka/VO9fdKWez6ZMbnJqP
0T7+RZ4M5479EUK6Lj5msDWilK6r33wxHRXTnioo3nKfc+o9XJeeqwPQSEpJeLvu
Zb8DAOZolbXqryjzP3EmzCBOnsSuXEEtu+BYPG4QnO2PIIN3Mck0vUcwttFEqLhM
wRgzF0a1COWBoTHvN3EB4QmzFgW4lwnwKv/fvtKyTXBoAXqRiaSo3HjkaMmlpGFH
X9A2TCu+k9Ni/M4BymzSwtS8KU5xMZT3igYgRvZhPhmzF7/efFQdM36JTStCuwuQ
IIjtFH4JxISQ525WraoFW+qvG15yfNqvnrzGOEJTCQ5XmgxexhCQBA==
=TUox
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 27 20:56:18 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:56:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maiman, problem with greek characters
In-Reply-To: <p06240805c257ec047fbc@[10.0.1.197]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704271156180968d642a3da@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>On 4/27/07, test at social.soc.uoc.gr wrote:
>
>>  I have installed the latest version of mailman in a mail server running
>>  postfix. The problem is with emails that contain greek characters. If the
>>  encoding is iso-8859-7 or windows-1253, all the body text is encoded as
>>  base64. The result of it is that the recipients cannot read the received
>>  emails.
>
>This is not a Mailman problem.  This is caused by either your mail 
>client generating base64, or the message being converted when it hits 
>the MTA.


Actually, it is Mailman (or Python if you prefer). When various
processes (scrubbing attachments and/or adding msg_header and/or
msg_footer) set the message payload with character set iso-8859-7, the
Python email library encodes the payload as base64.


>Get the client or the MTA fixed, and Mailman should handle the result 
>just fine.


Yes! base64 is a standard MIME encoding which the recipient's MUAs
should recognize. Why do the recipients have difficulty reading a
base64 encoded message?


>>  In case a user sends an email with multipart/mixed encoding everything is
>>  ok.


I notice your list post was sent with

Content-Type: text/plain;charset=multipart/mixed

This is completely bogus. There is no such character set as
multipart/mixed. I don't know if your SquirrelMail MUA did this on its
own or you somehow told it to, but it's wrong.

The reason this may work to avoid base64 is that Mailman/Python doesn't
recognize this charset and treats it as unknown resulting in the
messages Content-Transfer-Encoding: being 8bit instead of base64.


<snipped good advice from Brad>


>>  I've added a new line in Defauls.py containing the iso-8859-7 but it does
>>  not work.
>
>Don't edit Defaults.py.  That file will get overwritten in an 
>upgrade.  Edit mm_cfg.py instead.


Absolutely. But, what exactly did you add? Adding arbitrary things that
aren't already defined won't do anything because Mailman won't
reference them.

Adding a new language to the LC_DESCRIPTIONS list via an add_language
line without adding all the translated messages and templates for that
language will just create a mess.

Changing the characterset associated with a language won't affect this
issue, because the character set in this case is the character set of
the message body, not the character set of the list language.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 27 21:20:03 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:20:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Placing a copyright notice in list messages.
In-Reply-To: <463242F0.30806@WebsterRidge.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007042712200300788c0e9771@msapiro>

Brandon Sussman wrote:
>
>Can a copyright notice containing the sender's name be automatically placed in
>regular mailman list messages?


Not really. You could put the notice in msg_header or msg_footer, but
even if the list is personalized, the sender is not one of the
available substitutions for these (It could be added by modifying the
code in Mailman/Handlers/Decorate.py).

Even if you modified the code on Decorate.py to enable a substitution
for the sender in the header and footer, it wouldn't appear in the
digest version of the message.

I think I would do this with a generic sort of header/footer along the
lines of "posts to this list are copyright by the poster..." and
"mesages in this digest are copyright by the individual posters...".

If you reall want a notice with the poster explicitly named in the
notice, I suggest a custom handler (see <>) that would add the notice
to the message body (or as a separate part as done by Decorate.py for
message bodies that can't easily be added to). This way, the notice
would also appear in each message in the digest (unless it was a
separate part and scrubbed).

However, is this even a good idea at all. What if I post something
which includes significant material quoted from someone elses post and
I don't preserve the copyright from that post. Or I do preserve the
copyrights from the quoted material, but the attributions aren't
clear. I foresee a post with material from several authors and
multiple copyright notices with no clear identification of what is
copyright by whom.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From anne.ramey at ncmail.net  Fri Apr 27 21:04:54 2007
From: anne.ramey at ncmail.net (Anne Ramey)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:04:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SMS/text messaging
Message-ID: <46324956.5010603@ncmail.net>

I have some users interested in setting up lists to send out text 
messages to phones/PDAs.  We have figured out that the confirmation 
messages for subscription do not work on these devices.  We figured out 
that the approve method of subscription works, but the email it sends to 
let the user know their subscription is waiting is rather long.  Has 
anyone tweaked Mailman to work with these devices?  I don't see any 
patches out there for it.

-- 

Anne 


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Fri Apr 27 21:33:38 2007
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:33:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Placing a copyright notice in list  messages.
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007042712200300788c0e9771@msapiro>
References: <463242F0.30806@WebsterRidge.com>
	<PC17602007042712200300788c0e9771@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200704271932.l3RJVh4V005584@unreal.eroded.org>

Mark Sapiro sent the message below at 12:20 4/27/2007:
>Brandon Sussman wrote:
> >
> >Can a copyright notice containing the sender's name be 
> automatically placed in
> >regular mailman list messages?

<snip>

>However, is this even a good idea at all. What if I post something
>which includes significant material quoted from someone elses post and
>I don't preserve the copyright from that post. Or I do preserve the
>copyrights from the quoted material, but the attributions aren't
>clear. I foresee a post with material from several authors and
>multiple copyright notices with no clear identification of what is
>copyright by whom.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

I've got to agree with Mark, I think it very quickly becomes 
problematic to do this. It's very common for attributions to get 
mixed up or be ambiguous in replies, especially in long discussion threads.

If somebody is truly concerned about their own copyright protection, 
that person should be making such a disclaimer on their own as part 
of their post and such a disclaimer should take a form something like:

"Except where otherwise indicated, all material in this post is 
copyright <current year> <poster's name>, all rights reserved."

The problem with this is that the poster using it must be extremely 
careful to ensure that all quoted material is indicated unambiguously 
as being not under the copyright notice.

It's fraught with all sorts of legal implications if it is not done correctly.



Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 27 21:48:24 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:48:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Placing a copyright notice in list messages.
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007042712200300788c0e9771@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC176020070427124824093713f80d21@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>If you reall want a notice with the poster explicitly named in the
>notice, I suggest a custom handler (see <>) that would add the notice
>to the message body ...


Ooops. That should be

If you really want a notice with the poster explicitly named in the
notice, I suggest a custom handler (see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.067.htp>)
that would add the notice to the message body ...


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Apr 27 22:16:21 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:16:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SMS/text messaging
In-Reply-To: <46324956.5010603@ncmail.net>
References: <46324956.5010603@ncmail.net>
Message-ID: <p06240800c25809e780ed@[10.0.1.197]>

On 4/27/07, Anne Ramey wrote:

>  I have some users interested in setting up lists to send out text
>  messages to phones/PDAs.  We have figured out that the confirmation
>  messages for subscription do not work on these devices.  We figured out
>  that the approve method of subscription works, but the email it sends to
>  let the user know their subscription is waiting is rather long.  Has
>  anyone tweaked Mailman to work with these devices?  I don't see any
>  patches out there for it.

Mailman does Internet e-mail.  Are these phones/PDAs doing Internet 
e-mail?  If so, then the mail clients shouldn't have any problems 
with the messages Mailman is sending out -- I know I don't have any 
such problems on my Palm Treo 680.  Heck, in an emergency I can even 
handle the web-based moderation queue for Mailman-hosted mailing 
lists on my Treo -- that's one advantage of a simple web user 
interface.

Now, if these phones/PDAs are doing SMS messages that have been 
gatewayed from Internet e-mail, then you're talking about a problem 
with the gateway system, and there may not be a whole lot we can do 
to help you.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From john at gintell.org  Fri Apr 27 22:46:04 2007
From: john at gintell.org (John W Gintell)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:46:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Number of message limits by web hosting services
Message-ID: <A9ECD05A-B58F-46D4-BEAA-93CD5281B582@gintell.org>

Many of the web hosting services that offer mailman place a limit on  
the number of messages/hour that a given domain can deliver. This is   
presumably done to avoid saturating their servers. If you exceed the  
limit, they just ignore some of the recipients. Two hosts that we use  
have 300 and 500 as their limits. We have several largish email lists  
with several hundred addresses, one of which has ~400. If several  
people send to one or more of these lists in a given hour or one  
person sends to several lists at once, some of the recipients don't  
get the mail intended for them.

These hosts recommend using PHPlist instead which has a feature that  
can control the timing of the messages so as to not exceed the list,  
but PHPlist  doesn't work for members of the list sending mail since  
it is really designed to be a Newsletter distribution mechanism.

Is there any feature (I found nothing in the documentation) in  
Mailman that would help out here, or are there people on this email  
list  who have found encountered and solved this problem?

From R.E.Sonneveld at sonnection.nl  Fri Apr 27 23:54:50 2007
From: R.E.Sonneveld at sonnection.nl (Rolf E. Sonneveld)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 23:54:50 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists stop working
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200704270908070031a8601b46@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200704270908070031a8601b46@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4632712A.1090105@sonnection.nl>

Hello, Mark,

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>   
>> Fairly early in message processing, Mailman logs to either logs/post
>> (showing that the post was accepted) or to logs/vette (indicating that
>> the post was held or rejected, and why).
>>     
>
>
> One minor point here. The post log entry is not written until the
> message is delivered by SMTPDirect.
>   

OK, thus only after the message has been delivered to at least one 
subscriber (or the first MTA in the chain of delivery to at least one 
subscriber).

>   
>> When the post is delivered,
>> there will be an entry in logs/smtp for each batch of deliveries
>> (usually one per remote host, or one per user if personalization or
>> VERP is being used).
>>     
>
>
> Actually, if nothing goes wrong, there will be only one entry in the
> smtp log covering all deliveries. If things go wrong there will be
> perhaps multiple entries in both smtp and smtp-failure logs.
>   

In my case there were no entries in smtp nor in smtp-failure.

> In spite of the minor corrections above, Stephen's advice is excellent.
>
> To elaborate on Rolf's question about how Mailman processes a post.
>   

Thanks _very much_ for the detailed explanation of the inner working of 
Mailman. I really appreciate your detailed description!

> Assuming a standard configuration where the MTA delivers to the
> mail/mailman wrapper.
>
> 1) The MTA pipes the message to the wrapper which passes it to the
> scripts/post script which in turn places it in the qfiles/in queue.
> Nothing is logged in Mailman, but the MTA normally logs the delivery.
>   

Now here's the problem, I think. The MTA logs the message as being 
delivered to Mailman (via the wrapper script 
$MAILMANDIR/mailman/bin/mailman), so from the MTA's point of view it's 
done. Now, as the sent message cannot be found under qfiles, and as none 
of the $MAILMANDIR/logs/* files is modified, it seems as if the message 
disappeared in a black hole. Is there no way to enable debugging in the 
wrapper script? It would show the first action of Mailman, I assume.

> 2) IncomingRunner picks up the queue entry from qfiles/in and passes it
> through a pipeline of handlers (GLOBAL_PIPELINE - defined in
> Defaults.py, possibly modified in mm_cfg.py - unless the list defines
> a pipeline attribute to override it). The initial handlers check
> header_filter_rules, look for an Approved: header and possibly
> generate an autoresponse. The next set of handlers checks for
> moderation and other holds and does content filtering, emergency
> moderation and topic flagging. Any of these handlers can raise
> exceptions to request IncomingRunner to discard, reject or hold the
> message at that point. Discards and holds are logged in the vette log.
> Rejects are not logged, but result in a reject message to the poster.
> Any other exceptions cause the message to be moved to qfiles/shunt and
> the exception is logged in the error log.
>
> The next set of handlers determines the recipient addresses and
> possibly removes and/or modifies some message headers.
>
> Then handlers add the message to lists/<listname>/digest.mbox if the
> list is digestable (and possibly trigger a digest on size), add the
> message to qfiles/archive for processing by ArchRunner, possibly add
> the message to qfiles/news for processing by NewsRunner, update the
> list's last_post_time, send an acknowledgement to the poster if
> requested, and add the message to qfiles/out for processing by
> OutgoingRunner.
>   

FYI I made sure that the recipients where no digest users.

> 3) ArchRunner picks up the queue entry from qfiles/archive and adds it
> the the list's archive.
>
> 4)NewsRunner picks up the queue entry from qfiles/news and delivers it
> to Usenet.
>
> 5)OutgoingRunner picks up the queue entry from qfiles/out and calls
> SMTPDirect to deliver it to the outgoing MTA via SMTP. SMTPDirect logs
> posts to the post log and logs a bit more detail to the smtp log. Any
> SMTP failures are logged to the smtp-failure log and treated as
> bounces or queued for retry as appropriate.
>
> 6) Any unanticipated exceptions in any of the runners cause the message
> to be moved to qfiles/shunt and the exception to be logged in the
> error log.
>
>   

/rolf

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Apr 28 00:40:04 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:40:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists stop working
In-Reply-To: <4632712A.1090105@sonnection.nl>
Message-ID: <PC17602007042715400405627f8ff9d6@msapiro>

Rolf E. Sonneveld wrote:
>
>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> One minor point here. The post log entry is not written until the
>> message is delivered by SMTPDirect.
>>   
>
>OK, thus only after the message has been delivered to at least one 
>subscriber (or the first MTA in the chain of delivery to at least one 
>subscriber).


Yes, the first MTA, namely the one on localhost, port 25 unless
overridden by SMTPHOST/SMTPPORT in mm_cfg.py. There is no guarantee
this MTA has sent the message further. You need to refer the the MTA's
logs for that.


>In my case there were no entries in smtp nor in smtp-failure.


So the message didn't get that far.


>> 1) The MTA pipes the message to the wrapper which passes it to the
>> scripts/post script which in turn places it in the qfiles/in queue.
>> Nothing is logged in Mailman, but the MTA normally logs the delivery.
>>   
>
>Now here's the problem, I think. The MTA logs the message as being 
>delivered to Mailman (via the wrapper script 
>$MAILMANDIR/mailman/bin/mailman), so from the MTA's point of view it's 
>done. Now, as the sent message cannot be found under qfiles, and as none 
>of the $MAILMANDIR/logs/* files is modified, it seems as if the message 
>disappeared in a black hole. Is there no way to enable debugging in the 
>wrapper script? It would show the first action of Mailman, I assume.


There are at least two possibilities here.

1) The post was rejected (not held or discarded). A reject is not
logged, but there should be an associated entry in Mailman's smtp log
with a mailman generated message-id and 1 recipient for the reject
message sent to the poster.

2) The wrapper is for a different Mailman installation with a different
qfiles directory and probably no qrunners running and probably
different log files too.

The wrapper itself (I would expect it to be located at
$MAILMANDIR/mail/mailman, not $MAILMANDIR/mailman/bin/mailman) has the
path to the scripts/ directory compiled in and doesn't have any debug
switches. It will invoke the scripts/post script and presumably this
happens OK or it will return a failure status to the MTA which would
be logged by the MTA.

You can add debugging to the scripts/post script. If you look at this
script, you will see that it already detects a missing or invalid list
name from the wrapper and writes to stderr which is logged to both the
post and error logs.

You could add some more output, say by adding the last two lines of

    inq = get_switchboard(mm_cfg.INQUEUE_DIR)
    inq.enqueue(sys.stdin.read(),
                listname=listname,
                tolist=1, _plaintext=1)
    print >> sys.stderr, 'Post for %s queued in %s' \
                        % (listname, mm_cfg.INQUEUE_DIR)

If you don't see this in the post and error logs, you are not looking
at the right installation or (third possibility) the right log files.
Look in mm_cfg.py/Defaults.py for the definition of LOG_DIR and
anything else used in its definition.

This can be tricky. LOG_DIR is defined in Defaults.py in terms of
VAR_PREFIX. If VAR_PREFIX is redefined in mm_cfg.py, this will not
redefine LOG_DIR as LOG_DIR was already defined in Defaults.py in
terms of the Defaults.py definition of VAR_PREFIX.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bjames at cisco.com  Sat Apr 28 02:02:45 2007
From: bjames at cisco.com (bjames at cisco.com)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:02:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists stop working
Message-ID: <200704280002.l3S02jM07010@cathode.cisco.com>

--> On Thursday 26 April 2007 22:49:21 bjames at cisco.com wrote:
--> > Did you ever find a solution to this issue?
--> >
--> > I realize that this is a really old posting:
--> >
--> > 	I send an eMail to one of the lists, I can see in my /var/log/maillog;
--> >
--> > 	     Jun 10 11:27:03 osiris sendmail[2756]: h5A9R392002756:
--> > 	     from=<Niklas.Nikitin at xxx
--> >              <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users> >,
--> >              size=502, class=0, nrcpts=1,
--> > 	     msgid=<5.2.1.1.2.20030610112857.00b9b740 at xxx
--> >              <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users> >,
--> >              proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA,
--> > 	     relay=cassini.xxx [193.10.220.37]
--> >
--> > 	     Jun 10 11:27:03 osiris sendmail[2757]: h5A9R392002756:
--> > 	     to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post nicke-test",
--> > 	     ctladdr=<nicke-test at xxx
--> >              <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users> >
--> > (8/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00,
--> > 	     mailer=prog, pri=30704, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
--> >
--> > 	that the server is receiving the eMail and is forwarding it to
--> >         Mailman. But in Mailman's logs I will not find any information
--> >         that it has received the eMail and no eMail is sent to the members
--> >         on the list. If I dump all members of the list to a file, remove
--> >         the list, create the list again and add all members, the list is
--> >         working again for a while, and then it repeats again.
--> >
--> > but I've run into a very similar problem with two mailing lists that are
--> > managed using the current release of Mailman.
--> >
--> > The first symptom was that messages sent to the mailing lists were not
--> > distributed to the list, and did not show up in the list archive.
--> >
--> > After my ISP reinstalled Mailman, messages to the list started to show
--> > up in the list archive again. But the messages were still not distributed
--> > to members of the list.
--> >
--> > We found that if we add a new user, then a message to the list *is*
--> > delivered to that new user, but still not to any of the existing users.
--> >
--> > If the *new* user posts a message, that message appears in the list
--> > archive and the message is delivered to the entire mailing list.
--> >
--> > There doesn't seem to be a way to dump and reload the mailing list that
--> > preserves all per-list-member configuration options, so if possible,
--> > we'd like to avoid that workaround.  Especially if it only works
--> > temporarily.
--> >
--> > Any insight / help / pointers appreciated.
--> >
--> I had an oddity which may/maynot have some relevance..
--> 
--> We subscribed someone to a list with a specific email address.
--> They confirmed the subscription using web interface. Subsequently
--> mails from that member were received in the way you described and
--> were passed to mailman but did not get posted to the list.
--> 
--> I suggest you  examine the headers  of incoming mails,as they are
--> intially received, and outgoing mails to those subscribers who are
--> not receiving the mails.. There could be some changes being made to
--> the headers either by the subscribers server or your own that is
--> causing mails to be not delivered.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't believe it applies in our case.
There are several hundred subscribers on each list, with over 200
different mail domains (hence many different servers).

A message from a newly added subscriber is accepted, logged in the
archive, and distributed to all the members of the mailing list.

A message from a existing subscriber is accepted, logged in the
archive, confirming that it was seen and processed (at some level)
by Mailman.  The message *is* distributed to the newly added members
of the mailing list.  But it is not distributed to any of the existing
members.

I do not have direct access to the list server system; I am working
through our ISP's support service.  Any suggestions for what I can
tell them to look for, in Mailman log files or queues or other places,
to see why Mailman does not redistribute a message:

    - from an existing subscriber
    - to any existing subscriber

but (as far as we can tell) is working correctly in all other permutations?

Thanks.

Beau

--> david
--> 

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Apr 28 02:37:32 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:37:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists stop working
In-Reply-To: <200704280002.l3S02jM07010@cathode.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704271737320546c9c402c2@msapiro>

bjames at cisco.com wrote:
>
>Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't believe it applies in our case.
>There are several hundred subscribers on each list, with over 200
>different mail domains (hence many different servers).
>
>A message from a newly added subscriber is accepted, logged in the
>archive, and distributed to all the members of the mailing list.
>
>A message from a existing subscriber is accepted, logged in the
>archive, confirming that it was seen and processed (at some level)
>by Mailman.  The message *is* distributed to the newly added members
>of the mailing list.  But it is not distributed to any of the existing
>members.


This makes no sense in terms of Mailman. Mailman builds the recipient
list for a message independently of where it came from except that the
sender only will be removed if the sender's 'not metoo' option is
selected.


>I do not have direct access to the list server system; I am working
>through our ISP's support service.  Any suggestions for what I can
>tell them to look for, in Mailman log files or queues or other places,
>to see why Mailman does not redistribute a message:
>
>    - from an existing subscriber
>    - to any existing subscriber
>
>but (as far as we can tell) is working correctly in all other permutations?


They should look in Mailman's smtp log for entries like

Apr 27 16:31:49 2007 (pid) <message-id> smtp for nnn recips, completed
in t.ttt seconds

to verify that nnn is the expected number, i.e. the number of regular
(non-digest) members with delivery enabled, possibly minus 1 for the
poster if the poster has 'not metoo' and possibly minus a very few
more if the post has direct To:, Cc:, Resent-To: or Resent-Cc:
recipients who are candidate recipients with the 'nodups' option
selected.

Also look in the smtp-failure log to see if there are any failed
recipients of the message.

Assuming this is OK, the problem is outbound of mailman. They should
check MTA logs to see that the message is received from Mailman It may
be received in more that one transaction with anywhere between 1 and
several hundred recipients per transaction depending on Mailman
settings, but they should add up to the number Mailman reports in the
smtp log.

Then only the MTA can say what it did with the message(s) after that.

If it should turn out that the smtp log verifies that mailman is not
sending from 'existing subscribers' to 'existing subscribers', i.e.
messages from existing subscribers have a small 'nnn recips' equal to
only 'new subscribers', then we can look at adding debugging logging
to the handlers that build the recips list.

BTW, what do you consider the 'current release' of Mailman?

Also, I just had a sudden thought. Do your list(s) have topics defined
and if not, did they ever?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Apr 28 02:45:46 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:45:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Number of message limits by web hosting services
In-Reply-To: <A9ECD05A-B58F-46D4-BEAA-93CD5281B582@gintell.org>
References: <A9ECD05A-B58F-46D4-BEAA-93CD5281B582@gintell.org>
Message-ID: <p06240801c258497465e2@[10.0.1.197]>

On 4/27/07, John W Gintell wrote:

>  Is there any feature (I found nothing in the documentation) in
>  Mailman that would help out here, or are there people on this email
>  list  who have found encountered and solved this problem?

So far as I know, we do not currently have a solution for you.  See 
FAQ 4.51 for the details.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Apr 28 02:58:34 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:58:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Number of message limits by web hosting services
In-Reply-To: <A9ECD05A-B58F-46D4-BEAA-93CD5281B582@gintell.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602007042717583406566cd20b12@msapiro>

John W Gintell wrote:

>Many of the web hosting services that offer mailman place a limit on  
>the number of messages/hour that a given domain can deliver. This is   
>presumably done to avoid saturating their servers. If you exceed the  
>limit, they just ignore some of the recipients. Two hosts that we use  
>have 300 and 500 as their limits. We have several largish email lists  
>with several hundred addresses, one of which has ~400. If several  
>people send to one or more of these lists in a given hour or one  
>person sends to several lists at once, some of the recipients don't  
>get the mail intended for them.


Yes, this is a significant problem for the operation of Mailman.


>These hosts recommend using PHPlist instead which has a feature that  
>can control the timing of the messages so as to not exceed the list,  
>but PHPlist  doesn't work for members of the list sending mail since  
>it is really designed to be a Newsletter distribution mechanism.


We recommend finding a new host ;-)


>Is there any feature (I found nothing in the documentation) in  
>Mailman that would help out here, or are there people on this email  
>list  who have found encountered and solved this problem?


Mailman has no throttling/rate limiting knobs built in. That's not to
say you couldn't add one without much difficulty, but it wouldn't
help. What will happen is Mailman will delay delivery, posters won't
get their post and will repost making the problem worse. Soon Mailman
will become so backlogged as to be essentially useless.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bjames at cisco.com  Sat Apr 28 03:21:05 2007
From: bjames at cisco.com (bjames at cisco.com)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 18:21:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists stop working
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200704271737320546c9c402c2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200704280121.l3S1L5x03305@cathode.cisco.com>

--> BTW, what do you consider the 'current release' of Mailman?

Sorry, I should have been specific:

    X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp2

which my ISP said was "current".  I don't know the significance of
the ".cp2", but 2.1.9 is the latest stable release according to
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=103

--> Also, I just had a sudden thought. Do your list(s) have topics defined
--> and if not, did they ever?

No and no.

--> >Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't believe it applies in our case.
--> >There are several hundred subscribers on each list, with over 200
--> >different mail domains (hence many different servers).
--> >
--> >A message from a newly added subscriber is accepted, logged in the
--> >archive, and distributed to all the members of the mailing list.

I just reconfirmed this, by adding myself again with yet another new
address, then sending a message to the list from that new subscriber.
The message was logged in the archive and was distributed to all members;
I received a copy of the message at my "old" email address.

--> >A message from a existing subscriber is accepted, logged in the
--> >archive, confirming that it was seen and processed (at some level)
--> >by Mailman.  The message *is* distributed to the newly added members
--> >of the mailing list.  But it is not distributed to any of the existing
--> >members.

This I cannot reconfirm at the moment.

I sent another message to the list from my "old" address.  The message
was logged in the list archive, but does not appear to have been
distributed to anyone on the mailing list (new or old).

However: the first new user account we added to the list posted one
message.  That message is in the list archive, and I have the copy
of that message that I received via the mailing list at my "old" address.

So, something is going on but I have not yet characterized it completely.

--> This makes no sense in terms of Mailman. Mailman builds the recipient
--> list for a message independently of where it came from except that the
--> sender only will be removed if the sender's 'not metoo' option is
--> selected.

    Side note: the "not metoo" option is not working for us.
    I verified that the new accounts that I added do not have
    the "not metoo" option set, and the the default setting for
    the list does not have the "not metoo" option enable.d

    (Too many double negatives :-) ) The point being that for
    our mailing lists, the poster should receive a copy of his
    own message, but that is not happening.

--> >I do not have direct access to the list server system; I am working
--> >through our ISP's support service.  Any suggestions for what I can
--> >tell them to look for, in Mailman log files or queues or other places,
--> >to see why Mailman does not redistribute a message:
--> >
--> >    - from an existing subscriber
--> >    - to any existing subscriber
--> >
--> >but (as far as we can tell) is working correctly in all other permutations?

Thanks very much for the pointers below.  I've passed them on to our ISP
and I'll follow up to the list once I hear back.

Beau

--> They should look in Mailman's smtp log for entries like
--> 
--> Apr 27 16:31:49 2007 (pid) <message-id> smtp for nnn recips, completed
--> in t.ttt seconds
--> 
--> to verify that nnn is the expected number, i.e. the number of regular
--> (non-digest) members with delivery enabled, possibly minus 1 for the
--> poster if the poster has 'not metoo' and possibly minus a very few
--> more if the post has direct To:, Cc:, Resent-To: or Resent-Cc:
--> recipients who are candidate recipients with the 'nodups' option
--> selected.
--> 
--> Also look in the smtp-failure log to see if there are any failed
--> recipients of the message.
--> 
--> Assuming this is OK, the problem is outbound of mailman. They should
--> check MTA logs to see that the message is received from Mailman It may
--> be received in more that one transaction with anywhere between 1 and
--> several hundred recipients per transaction depending on Mailman
--> settings, but they should add up to the number Mailman reports in the
--> smtp log.
--> 
--> Then only the MTA can say what it did with the message(s) after that.
--> 
--> If it should turn out that the smtp log verifies that mailman is not
--> sending from 'existing subscribers' to 'existing subscribers', i.e.
--> messages from existing subscribers have a small 'nnn recips' equal to
--> only 'new subscribers', then we can look at adding debugging logging
--> to the handlers that build the recips list.
--> 
--> BTW, what do you consider the 'current release' of Mailman?
--> 
--> Also, I just had a sudden thought. Do your list(s) have topics defined
--> and if not, did they ever?
--> 
--> -- 
--> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
--> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
--> 

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Apr 28 03:33:17 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 20:33:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists stop working
In-Reply-To: <200704280121.l3S1L5x03305@cathode.cisco.com>
References: <200704280121.l3S1L5x03305@cathode.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <p06240800c258546cf83a@[10.0.1.197]>

On 4/27/07, bjames at cisco.com wrote:

>  Sorry, I should have been specific:
>
>     X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp2

That's cPanel.  See FAQ 6.11.

We have no way of verifying what they may have done to the stock 
Mailman code once they took it and modified it to their purposes.  At 
best, we can try to guess.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Apr 28 04:20:03 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:20:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists stop working
In-Reply-To: <200704280121.l3S1L5x03305@cathode.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007042719200306407f8ffa23@msapiro>

bjames at cisco.com wrote:
>
>    X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp2
>
>which my ISP said was "current".  I don't know the significance of
>the ".cp2", but 2.1.9 is the latest stable release according to
>http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=103


As Brad points out this is a cPanel release (specifically the second
Cpanel release based on 2.1.9), and Brad refers you to the FAQ on
cPanel Mailman.


>    Side note: the "not metoo" option is not working for us.
>    I verified that the new accounts that I added do not have
>    the "not metoo" option set, and the the default setting for
>    the list does not have the "not metoo" option enable.d
>
>    (Too many double negatives :-) ) The point being that for
>    our mailing lists, the poster should receive a copy of his
>    own message, but that is not happening.


This could be a cPanel issue. Also, there is a gmail issue. A user with
a gmail account will never receive a copy of her own post because
gmail sees it as a duplicate of the outgoing message in the 'sent'
folder and discards it. This is a gmail feature. People have
complained to gmail, so far AFAIK without any relief or known
workaround.

As far as cPanel is concerned, as Brad says, we can only guess. They
modify Mailman in significant ways, and they don't share those mods
with us. Someone once pressed them referring to the GPL and they
shared some of their virtual hosting mods, but they have mods in
several areas that we have never seen (although we have seen some of
the negative consequences).

Needless to say, this creates a very bad situation when we try to help
cPanel users, since unless the issue is something we specifically
recognize, we don't know whether it is a general Mailman issue or a
cPanel issue, and if it's the latter we can't get under the hood to do
a more detailed diagnosis.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Apr 28 04:24:42 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 21:24:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists stop working
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007042719200306407f8ffa23@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007042719200306407f8ffa23@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240800c2586073ca87@[10.0.1.197]>

On 4/27/07, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  Needless to say, this creates a very bad situation when we try to help
>  cPanel users, since unless the issue is something we specifically
>  recognize, we don't know whether it is a general Mailman issue or a
>  cPanel issue, and if it's the latter we can't get under the hood to do
>  a more detailed diagnosis.

I should point out that there are other cPanel users on this list, 
and they may be able to give you some assistance that we cannot. 
We'll continue to try to help as best we can, but we're going to be 
limited in what we can do.

Unfortunately, we're dependant on the rest of the cPanel/Mailman 
community to help pitch in here, because the assistance we can 
provide is very limited.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Sat Apr 28 06:29:27 2007
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 23:29:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Placing a copyright notice in list messages.
In-Reply-To: <463242F0.30806@WebsterRidge.com>
References: <463242F0.30806@WebsterRidge.com>
Message-ID: <93AF0606-4944-473D-A79B-A5B502FD71FD@goldmark.org>

On Apr 27, 2007, at 1:37 PM, Brandon Sussman wrote:

> Can a copyright notice containing the sender's name be  
> automatically placed in
> regular mailman list messages?

As others have pointed out, it would probably be a mistake to do that  
unless you can be absolutely certain that all of those who post to  
the list want such a copyright statement.  There will be cases where  
it won't be appropriate.

I suspect that your intention as a list manager isn't so much as to  
assert copyright, but to disclaim responsibility.  For this you could  
just add text to the footer saying that the responsibility for the  
content of a posting belongs to the poster.

-j

-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Apr 28 07:18:33 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 14:18:33 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maiman, problem with greek characters
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200704271156180968d642a3da@msapiro>
References: <p06240805c257ec047fbc@[10.0.1.197]>
	<PC1760200704271156180968d642a3da@msapiro>
Message-ID: <87irbhhyae.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > Yes! base64 is a standard MIME encoding which the recipient's MUAs
 > should recognize. Why do the recipients have difficulty reading a
 > base64 encoded message?

Because they use non-conforming MUAs localized to the environment.
These MUAs are typically popular with users and admins because they
"just work" in the common cases encountered by naive users, and don't
require admins to use MIME-aware tools to examine messages.

We may as well just accept it; even in Japan, which is starting to get
its MUA act together after 30 years of self-imposed confusion (there
are three commonly used native encodings of the national standard
character set, all preferred to Unicode), just yesterday I received a
partially unreadable message generated by a portable telephone, using
"corporate standard" characters with code points in a reserved area of
the national standard set.

Unfortunately, I don't see an "everybody happy" policy for Mailman.

Sure, it's conceptually possible to add a configuration variable that
permits 8-bit transfer encodings, but it seems to me that would need
to be list- and Content-Type-specific (including charset!) which would
be complex.  Or we could assume that the originating MUA's transfer
encoding was well-chosen, but that would require tracking transfer
encodings for each subobject of a message, and deciding on
initialization etc.  Not worth it in a world that increasingly
supports all the MIME standard that Mailman uses, IMO.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Apr 28 08:01:17 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 15:01:17 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Placing a copyright notice in list  messages.
In-Reply-To: <200704271932.l3RJVh4V005584@unreal.eroded.org>
References: <463242F0.30806@WebsterRidge.com>
	<PC17602007042712200300788c0e9771@msapiro>
	<200704271932.l3RJVh4V005584@unreal.eroded.org>
Message-ID: <87hcr1hwb6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Dragon writes:
 > Mark Sapiro sent the message below at 12:20 4/27/2007:
 > >Brandon Sussman wrote:

 > > > Can a copyright notice containing the sender's name be 
 > > > automatically placed in regular mailman list messages?

 > >However, is this even a good idea at all.

 > I've got to agree with Mark, I think it very quickly becomes
 > problematic to do this. It's very common for attributions to get
 > mixed up or be ambiguous in replies, especially in long discussion
 > threads.

That's right.  However, the OP may be in a situation where
attributions are uncommon, or everybody invariably top-posts.  The
real issue is that it has absolutely no legal effect establishing
copyright in about 140 countries.

Copyright is automatic under the Berne Convention and other relevant
international treaties, including WIPO.  Unless the poster makes
explicit assignment of the content, or the post constitutes a work for
hire, she owns copyright in all original expression in her post.

In some jurisdictions, such as the U.S., additional protection is
contingent on registering the work.  But a notice is insufficient.

However, there is legal risk involved, in that such a notice might
indvertantly make a false claim.  Suppose the poster forwards
another's message?  Or quotes enough to be a copyright issue?  How
about attachments?  Then the list has made that false claim on behalf
of the poster, which is a real mess, especially for the list admin,
who can presumably be sued by both sides.

So what we're left with is nannying people to be respectful of others'
copyrights, and that can be done with a generic disclaimer: "Please
remember that all material distributed on this list is copyright by
somebody, and get permission from all copyright holders before
redistributing in any way.  See the FAQ for description of use that
does not require permission."

If the OP is being nagged by his lawyers, I suppose there are
conditions I'm not aware of.  But please be very careful.  Creating a
disclaimer that covers all posts is not possible.  Crafting posts that
conform to the disclaimer is likely to be nontrivial, and require
careful user training, unless the disclaimer is as vague as the one I
suggested.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Apr 28 08:50:53 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 15:50:53 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Number of message limits by web hosting services
In-Reply-To: <A9ECD05A-B58F-46D4-BEAA-93CD5281B582@gintell.org>
References: <A9ECD05A-B58F-46D4-BEAA-93CD5281B582@gintell.org>
Message-ID: <87fy6lhu0i.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

John W Gintell writes:

 > Many of the web hosting services that offer mailman place a limit on  
 > the number of messages/hour that a given domain can deliver. This is   
 > presumably done to avoid saturating their servers. If you exceed the  
 > limit, they just ignore some of the recipients.

If they simply drop the mail on the floor, they are in violation of
Internet standards.  According to those standards, they should either
hold the outgoing mail (ie, to individual recipients) for later
delivery, refuse to accept the mail, or return an error message to the
submission agent.  The last case is arguably worse than ignoring it---
Mailman will treat it as a bounce and eventually disable delivery to
some users.

Mark put a smiley on it, but I don't think losing mail is a joking
matter.  Get better service.

 > Is there any feature (I found nothing in the documentation) in  
 > Mailman that would help out here, or are there people on this email  
 > list who have found encountered and solved this problem?

It's a FAQ.  This is caused by the physical rate limit imposed by your
host, and Mailman cannot do anything about it.  Your users expect mail
to be reliable and fairly close to instantaneous.  There is typically
at least one user who will notice non-delivery or delay (the poster).
The only solutions (other than to train your users to accept sloppy
service) are (a) to get better mail service or (b) switch your lists
to a protocol that generate a more consistent load on servers (Usenet
newsgroups, Google Groups, weblogs are examples).

It would be possible to naively throttle Mailman, but consider the
consequences.  If your users generate a burst of activity, you could
easily end up with several days' backlog.  (Note that in many cases
there are likely to be CCs to other users, who will receive the mail
directly, and respond immediately, adding to the backlog.)  If several
lists are hosted by the same provider, there would be an issue of how
to prioritize; an urgent message from a low-traffic list could easily
be delayed for quite a while due to queued gossip on a popular list.
These issues are difficult to impossible for Mailman to resolve.  So
the current version doesn't even try.

It's quite likely you can find a provider who does not rate limit
Mailman for the same cost (even zero!) if you look hard.  I encourage
you to do so; there have been a number of people who have posted about
their excellent providers in the last few weeks, it must be dozens
over the last couple of years---archives of this list would be a
reasonable place to start looking for recommendations.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Apr 28 09:56:22 2007
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 16:56:22 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists stop working
In-Reply-To: <200704280002.l3S02jM07010@cathode.cisco.com>
References: <200704280002.l3S02jM07010@cathode.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <87ejm5hqzd.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

bjames at cisco.com writes:

 > I do not have direct access to the list server system; I am working
 > through our ISP's support service.  Any suggestions for what I can
 > tell them to look for

I'd suggest just giving them this address.

"Support" implies that they know what they are doing, and will do it
for you.  That includes getting consulting help when they don't have
expertise in-house.  Support is part of the advertised service, isn't
it?  Why should you have to be posting here, except to provide details
that the support staff overlooked or doesn't have?  Why should we be
guessing what information the ISP is looking at, but isn't telling us?

OTOH, we don't charge ISPs to post to this list, any more than we
charge list admins or users.  There are plenty of people who ask for
help on this list as part of their paid duties, and nobody asks or
cares; we just help them out.

So tell your ISP to *please* write us.  This is *their* problem, and
they should not impose it on you.  It can't slow things down, either,
as there is almost certainly nothing useful you can do without their
intervention.

If they won't, I think it's obvious what your next step is.

Cheers,


From turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp  Sat Apr 28 10:08:30 2007
From: turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 17:08:30 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists stop working
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007042715400405627f8ff9d6@msapiro>
References: <4632712A.1090105@sonnection.nl>
	<PC17602007042715400405627f8ff9d6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <87d51oj4zl.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > This can be tricky. LOG_DIR is defined in Defaults.py in terms of
 > VAR_PREFIX. If VAR_PREFIX is redefined in mm_cfg.py, this will not
 > redefine LOG_DIR as LOG_DIR was already defined in Defaults.py in
 > terms of the Defaults.py definition of VAR_PREFIX.

2.1.9's Defaults.py has the following warning, which applies to both
LOG_DIR and VAR_PREFIX.  So if either appears in mm_cfg.py, there are
legitimate grounds for a harsh complaint to the vendor or installer.

#####
# Nothing below here is user configurable.  Most of these values are in this
# file for internal system convenience.  Don't change any of them or override
# any of them in your mm_cfg.py file!
#####


From Brandon at WebsterRidge.com  Sat Apr 28 15:02:41 2007
From: Brandon at WebsterRidge.com (Brandon Sussman)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 09:02:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Placing a copyright notice in list messages.
In-Reply-To: <93AF0606-4944-473D-A79B-A5B502FD71FD@goldmark.org>
References: <463242F0.30806@WebsterRidge.com>
	<93AF0606-4944-473D-A79B-A5B502FD71FD@goldmark.org>
Message-ID: <463345F1.8080505@WebsterRidge.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Thank you all for your comments.  They have been helpful.

On Apr 27, 2007, at 1:37 PM, I wrote:

|> Can a copyright notice containing the sender's name be
|> automatically placed in regular mailman list messages?

My inquiry was technical, not legal, social, or creative.

The justification for what I asked about is "Because my (paying) client wants
it".  Unless there is possible harm and his lawyer objects, this is good
enough for me.

Perhaps I should have asked instead:  "Where are is the documentation stating
what (if any) fields are available for insertion into default header and
footer blocks?".

~From the responses so far, I think "Mailman doesn't provide the facility and
or field" is the answer.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux)

iQEVAwUBRjNF7tN2DJl/zagkAQKxjggAoT142FUbk2oenFhnFH3R2vChiQpcUbIV
F+4TPNc06if32sjumMtzoOfo+SCLIbW3xjG2ud5xudMZ7q0nheSlYPIQKf9frR1+
gdv3iOq8AiycEmUckaFsNra70RyWUmzi5EBeESYa67tmvGARRGMj8S0IYRdZSDyO
5Q9bJP7cNaDGDf4wML8AMZE8EHQfFTmXN3nY5Ec/eZ8Z7jCxxWHxvdG7oK0hRs4M
qNw3QNcaNYimWRk1noJkz5r4TGlEoWmyXMCQ1L/Z9F09Iz87eJZ/bLxctVQ7oTrX
6ntJBAMzYhOgfnu2RJ7sX/P5ekdBx/2ME8JagddizmTEAWpTiyywNw==
=ibV9
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Apr 28 17:28:47 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 08:28:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Placing a copyright notice in list messages.
In-Reply-To: <463345F1.8080505@WebsterRidge.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602007042808284704373cca45c4@msapiro>

Brandon Sussman wrote:
>
>Perhaps I should have asked instead:  "Where are is the documentation stating
>what (if any) fields are available for insertion into default header and
>footer blocks?".


In the "details for" links for msg_header, msg_footer, digest_header
and digest_footer.

Note that if OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION is set to Yes in
mm_cfg.py, additional replacements having to do with the individual
message recipient are described for msg_header and msg_footer and are
available if personalize is set to Yes or Full.

An example is the Unsubscribe: link in the footer of the
mailman-users at python.org list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Apr 28 18:31:04 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 11:31:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Placing a copyright notice in list messages.
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007042808284704373cca45c4@msapiro>
References: <PC17602007042808284704373cca45c4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240800c25926521da8@[10.0.1.197]>

On 4/28/07, Mark Sapiro quoted Brandon Sussman:

>>  Perhaps I should have asked instead:  "Where are is the 
>>documentation stating
>>  what (if any) fields are available for insertion into default header and
>>  footer blocks?".
>
>  In the "details for" links for msg_header, msg_footer, digest_header
>  and digest_footer.

Which can be found in FAQ 3.41.

However, I would also suggest searching through the FAQ Wizard for 
"footer" and reading all articles that are returned.  There's lots of 
technical issues here that have to do with how mail clients structure 
MIME and MIME/HTML messages and the limitations on what Mailman can 
do.

Also, the FAQ 3.40/3.18/3.37 set of articles is another good one to 
look at, when it comes to making customizations to Mailman, and the 
limits on what you can do to change the look & feel, etc....

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From test at social.soc.uoc.gr  Sat Apr 28 18:34:48 2007
From: test at social.soc.uoc.gr (test at social.soc.uoc.gr)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 19:34:48 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to avoid base64 encoding
Message-ID: <55126.85.73.234.86.1177778088.squirrel@social.soc.uoc.gr>

X-Faculty of Social Sciences-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information
X-Faculty of Social Sciences-MailScanner: Found to be clean
X-Faculty of Social Sciences-MailScanner-From: test at social.soc.uoc.gr
X-Spam-Status: No

Hi,

Is there any way i can force mailman not to encode the emails with base64
encoding?

Thanks,

Alex




-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Apr 28 18:49:02 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 11:49:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to avoid base64 encoding
In-Reply-To: <55126.85.73.234.86.1177778088.squirrel@social.soc.uoc.gr>
References: <55126.85.73.234.86.1177778088.squirrel@social.soc.uoc.gr>
Message-ID: <p06240801c2592aee3245@[10.0.1.197]>

On 4/28/07, test at social.soc.uoc.gr wrote:

>  Is there any way i can force mailman not to encode the emails with base64
>  encoding?

You already posted this question -- see 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-April/056811.html>.

Mark Sapiro, Stephen J. Turnbull, and I have already responded.  See 
the other messages in that thread.


If there is anything that you are confused about, please let us know 
specifically which parts are confusing, and we'll try to explain.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From test at social.soc.uoc.gr  Sat Apr 28 19:23:34 2007
From: test at social.soc.uoc.gr (test at social.soc.uoc.gr)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 20:23:34 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Base64 Encoding -Greek characters- Part of the
	problem solved
Message-ID: <55176.85.73.234.86.1177781014.squirrel@social.soc.uoc.gr>

Hi,

I've managed to solve the biggest part of the problem. The problem was
initiated by Mailscanner. For every email in my mail server, the header of
every email was modified and lines like the following were added:

"X-Faculty of Social Sciences-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the
ISP for more information X-Faculty of Social Sciences-MailScanner: Found
to be clean X-Faculty of Social Sciences-MailScanner-From:
test at social.soc.uoc.gr
X-Spam-Status: No"

For some reason this caused mailman to encode emails with base64, so being
unreadable by the recipients.
I reconfigured Mailscanner so as the headers are not modified and my
(happy) recipients can now read the emails.

Regards,

Alex




-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Apr 28 19:43:35 2007
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 12:43:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Base64 Encoding -Greek characters- Part of the
 problem solved
In-Reply-To: <55176.85.73.234.86.1177781014.squirrel@social.soc.uoc.gr>
References: <55176.85.73.234.86.1177781014.squirrel@social.soc.uoc.gr>
Message-ID: <p06240800c25936e4ffc6@[10.0.1.197]>

On 4/28/07, test at social.soc.uoc.gr wrote:

>  I've managed to solve the biggest part of the problem. The problem was
>  initiated by Mailscanner. For every email in my mail server, the header of
>  every email was modified and lines like the following were added:

If you check your previous message at 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2007-April/056811.html>, 
you will note that these are not being inserted as actual headers in 
the message, although it probably appears that way to you.  There was 
a blank line between the last "real" header and these lines, which 
made them part of the message body.

If you look at the original message as you sent it, it had the MIME headers:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

So, SquirrelMail was sending things just fine, without a 
content-transfer-encoding of base64.  And it doesn't look like 
MailScanner changed anything here.  Of course, the original message 
was probably 7-bit clean in US-ASCII (as opposed to using eight-bit 
accented Greek characters), so without more information we don't know 
for sure where the conversion to base64 was happening.

>  For some reason this caused mailman to encode emails with base64, so being
>  unreadable by the recipients.
>  I reconfigured Mailscanner so as the headers are not modified and my
>  (happy) recipients can now read the emails.

The clients should still have been able to deal with base64 in a 
transparent manner, so this is clearly also a client problem.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>, Consultant & Author
LinkedIn Profile: <http://tinyurl.com/y8kpxu>
Slides from Invited Talks: <http://tinyurl.com/tj6q4>

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Apr 28 19:54:29 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 10:54:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Base64 Encoding -Greek characters- Part of
	theproblem solved
In-Reply-To: <55176.85.73.234.86.1177781014.squirrel@social.soc.uoc.gr>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704281054290937be0918e6@msapiro>

test at social.soc.uoc.gr wrote:
>
>I've managed to solve the biggest part of the problem. The problem was
>initiated by Mailscanner. For every email in my mail server, the header of
>every email was modified and lines like the following were added:
>
>"X-Faculty of Social Sciences-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the
>ISP for more information X-Faculty of Social Sciences-MailScanner: Found
>to be clean X-Faculty of Social Sciences-MailScanner-From:
>test at social.soc.uoc.gr
>X-Spam-Status: No"
>
>For some reason this caused mailman to encode emails with base64, so being
>unreadable by the recipients.
>I reconfigured Mailscanner so as the headers are not modified and my
>(happy) recipients can now read the emails.


This will only work if both msg_header and msg_footer are empty and
scrub_nondigest is No. Even in this case, There will be an issue with
the plain format digest if the character set of the list's
preferred_language does not support Greek characters.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From test at social.soc.uoc.gr  Sat Apr 28 20:09:03 2007
From: test at social.soc.uoc.gr (test at social.soc.uoc.gr)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 21:09:03 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Base64 Encoding -Greek characters- Part of
 theproblem solved
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200704281054290937be0918e6@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200704281054290937be0918e6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <55197.85.73.234.86.1177783743.squirrel@social.soc.uoc.gr>

Before changing the configuration of mailscanner, i performed a test that
gave surprising results (for me).

I sent an email to "mylist" containing greek characters.
Then, i opened mailman's web interface as the list's moderator to decide
about the fate of the incoming email.
In the email's body there were unreadable characters such as =E1=E2=E3. 
Then, i chose "Additionally, forward this message to:
anotherguy at mydomain.com" and then "Approve".

The members of the list received unreadable base64 encoded characters
while the anotherguy at mydomain.com received proper greek characters.

Is this not strange?

Alex



> test at social.soc.uoc.gr wrote:
>>
>>I've managed to solve the biggest part of the problem. The problem was
>>initiated by Mailscanner. For every email in my mail server, the header
>> of
>>every email was modified and lines like the following were added:
>>
>>"X-Faculty of Social Sciences-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the
>>ISP for more information X-Faculty of Social Sciences-MailScanner: Found
>>to be clean X-Faculty of Social Sciences-MailScanner-From:
>>test at social.soc.uoc.gr
>>X-Spam-Status: No"
>>
>>For some reason this caused mailman to encode emails with base64, so
>> being
>>unreadable by the recipients.
>>I reconfigured Mailscanner so as the headers are not modified and my
>>(happy) recipients can now read the emails.
>
>
> This will only work if both msg_header and msg_footer are empty and
> scrub_nondigest is No. Even in this case, There will be an issue with
> the plain format digest if the character set of the list's
> preferred_language does not support Greek characters.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>



-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Apr 28 20:54:30 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 11:54:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Base64 Encoding -Greek characters- Part
	oftheproblem solved
In-Reply-To: <55197.85.73.234.86.1177783743.squirrel@social.soc.uoc.gr>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704281154300312ca2f5316@msapiro>

test at social.soc.uoc.gr wrote:
>
>I sent an email to "mylist" containing greek characters.
>Then, i opened mailman's web interface as the list's moderator to decide
>about the fate of the incoming email.
>In the email's body there were unreadable characters such as =E1=E2=E3.

These are quoted-printable encoded characters (each
non-us-ascii-printable 8-bit byte is encoded as an '=' followed by two
hex digits). In the iso-8859-7 character set they correspond to the
upper case greek letters alpha, beta and gamma.


>Then, i chose "Additionally, forward this message to:
>anotherguy at mydomain.com" and then "Approve".
>
>The members of the list received unreadable base64 encoded characters
>while the anotherguy at mydomain.com received proper greek characters.
>
>Is this not strange?


No, it is not strange at all. The forwarded message was sent as is to
the address you forwarded it to. That address received the
quoted-printable encoded message and the MUA used to view it
understood and properly decoded the quoted-printable encoding.

The list message probably had a msg_header or msg_footer added or some
other Mailman manipulation done to it that caused Mailman to reset the
contents of the message body which in turn cause the Python email
library to encode the body with its encoding for iso-8859-7 (or
windows-1253) which is base64.

I doubt very much that Mailman's encoding or not encoding the message
body as base64 is really caused by the presence/absence of the
mailscanner headers. I think you probably also changed some list
configuration (such as removing msg_footer) at the same time and this
is what changed Mailman's behavior.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From teck at dollteck.com  Sun Apr 29 21:27:40 2007
From: teck at dollteck.com (Teck)
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 16:27:40 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix/mailman
Message-ID: <005601c78a94$7462e6a0$6cf5fea9@tecks>

i have been trying to figure this out for the last day and a half google is 
not my friend !:(

config  suse 10.0   postfix spanassassin amavisd clamd freshclam all running 
mailman DID work.  im not sure just yet when it quit.  anyone of the members 
can send to it and mailman does its thing and mail gets delivered to any 
members of MY domain. it will not send to outside domains  in the mail log 
all i get it  connection timed out and the mail returned to postfix 
deferred. everytime i try to flush it same result.
 from any machine in my network(windows machines) i can send mail via my 
mail server same as usual. sending via mailman to outside domains seems to 
have broken during my install of..   mhonarc mharc and namazu....

anyone have any ideas where to start looking? i have seen what seems like 
thousands of hits on google about it and most that are closest to my config 
refer to using postfix to do sasl auth with my isp...   i didnt have to 
befire so im guessing i shouldnt have to now.... what could i have broken 
that will only allow mailman/postfix to send to my local domain but receive 
from everywhere?   keeping in mind that i can send to anywhere as is evident 
in thi semail  its just when passing through mailman...... 


From hesco at reclaimedcomputers.ca  Sun Apr 29 23:01:16 2007
From: hesco at reclaimedcomputers.ca (Hugh Esco)
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 14:01:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New list fails to archive
Message-ID: <20070429140116.1555ebd5.hesco@reclaimedcomputers.ca>

I've been using multiple instances of mailman for probably close to a
hundred different lists on dozens of projects since 2000.  I've
administered dozens of mailman installations on at least six servers,
many of them with command line access.  I have never run into this issue
before.  

I have set up two new lists using the mailman/create web interface (a
first for me). This server is new to me and its uses mm 2.1.5 from the
Debian apt-get repository.  Although I've built dozens of Debian
machines and use Debian at home and on most of the servers where I
host production projects, I've always installed mailman from a source
tarball before. But this is not my server and I'm only adding a few
lists to an existing instance of mailman.

The moderation que appropriately snags unauthorized mail.  The list is
passing traffic through to the list.  But so far, I have seen no
evidence that anything is being archived, although I believe I've
appropriately configured these new lists to do that.  

The root administrator on this server tells me that other lists hosted
with his server are being archived.  

I've poked around and found the code, the lists, the archives
(directories have been created for my new lists, which seem to have the
same permissions and ownership as the lists who's archives do work) and
the logs.  But I haven't found any clues to my issue.  

Can anyone here please recommend my next steps to debugging this issue? 
We have ads coming out Wednesday advertsiing a new site and I'm hoping
to have our lists working and a subscription form up by then.  

Thanks,
-- Hugh Esco

From bjames at cisco.com  Sun Apr 29 23:16:14 2007
From: bjames at cisco.com (bjames at cisco.com)
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 14:16:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists stop working
Message-ID: <200704292116.l3TLGEp07953@cathode.cisco.com>

A correction to the 'analysis' below:

--> --> >A message from a newly added subscriber is accepted, logged in the
--> --> >archive, and distributed to all the members of the mailing list.
--> 
--> I just reconfirmed this, by adding myself again with yet another new
--> address, then sending a message to the list from that new subscriber.
--> The message was logged in the archive and was distributed to all members;
--> I received a copy of the message at my "old" email address.

The comment "... and was distributed to all members" turns out to be
incorrect.  Messages from 'new' subscribers are delivered by MailMan
to *some* existing members of the mailing list, but definitely not all
of them.

The bottom line is that for the moment, our attempts to detect any pattern
in what messages get redistributed to whom has been unsuccessful.

We do know that the messages are being received, logged in the list archive,
and (at least sometimes) distributed to *some* members of the mailing list.
I suspect that MailMan logs will point to the root cause of the problem
fairly quickly, at least for someone with even a moderate understanding
of how MailMan processes list messages and where MailMan logs those
activities.

Our ISP's tech support person is trying again to escalate our problem
to cPanel.

Beau

--> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 18:21:05 -0700 (PDT)
--> 
--> --> BTW, what do you consider the 'current release' of Mailman?
--> 
--> Sorry, I should have been specific:
--> 
-->     X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp2
--> 
--> which my ISP said was "current".  I don't know the significance of
--> the ".cp2", but 2.1.9 is the latest stable release according to
--> http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=103
--> 
--> --> Also, I just had a sudden thought. Do your list(s) have topics defined
--> --> and if not, did they ever?
--> 
--> No and no.
--> 
--> --> >Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't believe it applies in our case.
--> --> >There are several hundred subscribers on each list, with over 200
--> --> >different mail domains (hence many different servers).
--> --> >
--> --> >A message from a newly added subscriber is accepted, logged in the
--> --> >archive, and distributed to all the members of the mailing list.
--> 
--> I just reconfirmed this, by adding myself again with yet another new
--> address, then sending a message to the list from that new subscriber.
--> The message was logged in the archive and was distributed to all members;
--> I received a copy of the message at my "old" email address.
--> 
--> --> >A message from a existing subscriber is accepted, logged in the
--> --> >archive, confirming that it was seen and processed (at some level)
--> --> >by Mailman.  The message *is* distributed to the newly added members
--> --> >of the mailing list.  But it is not distributed to any of the existing
--> --> >members.
--> 
--> This I cannot reconfirm at the moment.
--> 
--> I sent another message to the list from my "old" address.  The message
--> was logged in the list archive, but does not appear to have been
--> distributed to anyone on the mailing list (new or old).
--> 
--> However: the first new user account we added to the list posted one
--> message.  That message is in the list archive, and I have the copy
--> of that message that I received via the mailing list at my "old" address.
--> 
--> So, something is going on but I have not yet characterized it completely.
--> 
--> --> This makes no sense in terms of Mailman. Mailman builds the recipient
--> --> list for a message independently of where it came from except that the
--> --> sender only will be removed if the sender's 'not metoo' option is
--> --> selected.
--> 
-->     Side note: the "not metoo" option is not working for us.
-->     I verified that the new accounts that I added do not have
-->     the "not metoo" option set, and the the default setting for
-->     the list does not have the "not metoo" option enable.d
--> 
-->     (Too many double negatives :-) ) The point being that for
-->     our mailing lists, the poster should receive a copy of his
-->     own message, but that is not happening.
--> 
--> --> >I do not have direct access to the list server system; I am working
--> --> >through our ISP's support service.  Any suggestions for what I can
--> --> >tell them to look for, in Mailman log files or queues or other places,
--> --> >to see why Mailman does not redistribute a message:
--> --> >
--> --> >    - from an existing subscriber
--> --> >    - to any existing subscriber
--> --> >
--> --> >but (as far as we can tell) is working correctly in all other permutations?
--> 
--> Thanks very much for the pointers below.  I've passed them on to our ISP
--> and I'll follow up to the list once I hear back.
--> 
--> Beau
--> 
--> --> They should look in Mailman's smtp log for entries like
--> --> 
--> --> Apr 27 16:31:49 2007 (pid) <message-id> smtp for nnn recips, completed
--> --> in t.ttt seconds
--> --> 
--> --> to verify that nnn is the expected number, i.e. the number of regular
--> --> (non-digest) members with delivery enabled, possibly minus 1 for the
--> --> poster if the poster has 'not metoo' and possibly minus a very few
--> --> more if the post has direct To:, Cc:, Resent-To: or Resent-Cc:
--> --> recipients who are candidate recipients with the 'nodups' option
--> --> selected.
--> --> 
--> --> Also look in the smtp-failure log to see if there are any failed
--> --> recipients of the message.
--> --> 
--> --> Assuming this is OK, the problem is outbound of mailman. They should
--> --> check MTA logs to see that the message is received from Mailman It may
--> --> be received in more that one transaction with anywhere between 1 and
--> --> several hundred recipients per transaction depending on Mailman
--> --> settings, but they should add up to the number Mailman reports in the
--> --> smtp log.
--> --> 
--> --> Then only the MTA can say what it did with the message(s) after that.
--> --> 
--> --> If it should turn out that the smtp log verifies that mailman is not
--> --> sending from 'existing subscribers' to 'existing subscribers', i.e.
--> --> messages from existing subscribers have a small 'nnn recips' equal to
--> --> only 'new subscribers', then we can look at adding debugging logging
--> --> to the handlers that build the recips list.
--> --> 
--> --> BTW, what do you consider the 'current release' of Mailman?
--> --> 
--> --> Also, I just had a sudden thought. Do your list(s) have topics defined
--> --> and if not, did they ever?
--> --> 
--> --> -- 
--> --> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
--> --> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
--> --> 
--> ------------------------------------------------------
--> Mailman-Users mailing list
--> Mailman-Users at python.org
--> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
--> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
--> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
--> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/bjames%40cisco.com
--> 
--> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
--> 

From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Mon Apr 30 01:03:23 2007
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 18:03:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix/mailman
In-Reply-To: <005601c78a94$7462e6a0$6cf5fea9@tecks>
References: <005601c78a94$7462e6a0$6cf5fea9@tecks>
Message-ID: <181D1144-0E15-4683-9767-4F4C7830D7FC@goldmark.org>

On Apr 29, 2007, at 2:27 PM, Teck wrote:

> i have been trying to figure this out for the last day and a half  
> google is
> not my friend !:(
>
> config  suse 10.0   postfix spanassassin amavisd clamd freshclam  
> all running
> mailman DID work.  im not sure just yet when it quit.  anyone of  
> the members
> can send to it and mailman does its thing and mail gets delivered  
> to any
> members of MY domain. it will not send to outside domains  in the  
> mail log
> all i get it  connection timed out and the mail returned to postfix
> deferred. everytime i try to flush it same result.

Can you post an excerpt from your postfix logs?

-j


-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 30 02:01:41 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 17:01:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New list fails to archive
In-Reply-To: <20070429140116.1555ebd5.hesco@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
Message-ID: <PC17602007042917014108592f3a2344@msapiro>

Hugh Esco wrote:
>
>The moderation que appropriately snags unauthorized mail.  The list is
>passing traffic through to the list.  But so far, I have seen no
>evidence that anything is being archived, although I believe I've
>appropriately configured these new lists to do that.  
>
>The root administrator on this server tells me that other lists hosted
>with his server are being archived.  


Do you believe this? It seems you may have shell access. If so, do

ps -fAw | grep python

to be sure that 1) ArchRunner is running and 2) if the command option
is something other than --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 (i.e. if it is sliced)
that all slices are running. E.g. if you see a process with option
--runner=ArchRunner:0:2, there must be s second one with option
--runner=ArchRunner:1:2. Whatever the second 'n' is there should be n
processes with first number 0,1,...,n-1.


>I've poked around and found the code, the lists, the archives
>(directories have been created for my new lists, which seem to have the
>same permissions and ownership as the lists who's archives do work) and
>the logs.  But I haven't found any clues to my issue.  


Also look in qfiles/archive to see if there are messages waiting to be
archived.

If the lists are working, the list's archive attributes are 'Yes',
ArchRunner is running and qfiles/archive is empty, yet your messages
aren't being archived, I think there have to be exceptions in
Mailman's error log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 30 02:12:35 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 17:12:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists stop working
In-Reply-To: <200704292116.l3TLGEp07953@cathode.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704291712350015b5285d52@msapiro>

bjames at cisco.com wrote:
>
>The comment "... and was distributed to all members" turns out to be
>incorrect.  Messages from 'new' subscribers are delivered by MailMan
>to *some* existing members of the mailing list, but definitely not all
>of them.
>
>The bottom line is that for the moment, our attempts to detect any pattern
>in what messages get redistributed to whom has been unsuccessful.
>
>We do know that the messages are being received, logged in the list archive,
>and (at least sometimes) distributed to *some* members of the mailing list.
>I suspect that MailMan logs will point to the root cause of the problem
>fairly quickly, at least for someone with even a moderate understanding
>of how MailMan processes list messages and where MailMan logs those
>activities.


I suspect that Mailman's logs will not point to the root cause, because
I suspect this problem is outbound from Mailman. I may be wrong about
this, but whether or not it's Mailman's problem, Mailman's smtp log
will verify whether or not the posts are being sent from Mailman to
the expected number of recipients in each case.


>Our ISP's tech support person is trying again to escalate our problem
>to cPanel.


Your ISP's tech support should first use Mailman's smtp log to see
whether or not it is Mailman dropping recipients. If it is Mailman,
then cPanel is the correct place to go. If not, then start looking at
the outgoing MTA's logs to see what happens after Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From teck at dollteck.com  Mon Apr 30 02:26:49 2007
From: teck at dollteck.com (Teck)
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 21:26:49 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix/mailman
Message-ID: <00e901c78abe$3e8659c0$6cf5fea9@tecks>


> On Apr 29, 2007, at 2:27 PM, Teck wrote:
>
>> i have been trying to figure this out for the last day and a half  google
>> is
>> not my friend !:(
>>
>> config  suse 10.0   postfix spanassassin amavisd clamd freshclam  all
>> running
>> mailman DID work.  im not sure just yet when it quit.  anyone of  the
>> members
>> can send to it and mailman does its thing and mail gets delivered  to any
>> members of MY domain. it will not send to outside domains  in the  mail
>> log
>> all i get it  connection timed out and the mail returned to postfix
>> deferred. everytime i try to flush it same result.
>
> Can you post an excerpt from your postfix logs?
>
> -j
>
>
> -- 
> Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/
>
==> mail <==
Apr 29 20:45:01 www postfix/qmgr[14988]: E82BA16BA31:
to=<lissa***l at yahoo.com>, relay=none, delay=35229, status=deferred (delivery
temporarily suspended: connect to yahoo.com[216.109.112.135]: server dropped
connection without sending the initial SMTP greeting)
Apr 29 20:45:01 www postfix/qmgr[14988]: E273516BA01: to=<dfr at yahoo.com>,
relay=none, delay=35112, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended:
connect to yahoo.com[216.109.112.135]: server dropped connection without
sending the initial SMTP greeting)
Apr 29 20:45:01 www postfix/qmgr[14988]: E273516BA01: to=<ell at yahoo.com>,
relay=none, delay=35112, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended:
connect to yahoo.com[216.109.112.135]: server dropped connection without
sending the initial SMTP greeting)
Apr 29 20:45:01 www postfix/qmgr[14988]: E273516BA01: to=<ha at yahoo.com>,
relay=none, delay=35112, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended:
connect to yahoo.com[216.109.112.135]: server dropped connection without
sending the initial SMTP greeting)
Apr 29 20:45:01 www postfix/qmgr[14988]: E273516BA01: to=<lissal at yahoo.com>,
relay=none, delay=35112, status=deferred (delivery temporarily suspended:
connect to yahoo.com[216.109.112.135]: server dropped connection without
sending the initial SMTP greeting)
Apr 29 20:45:12 www postfix/smtpd[23657]: connect from
n19.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com[69.147.64.216]
Apr 29 20:45:13 www postfix/smtpd[23657]: 323C516C973:
client=n19.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com[69.147.64.216]
Apr 29 20:45:13 www postfix/cleanup[23758]: 323C516C973:
message-id=<46352DC2.000007.03808 at CINDY>
Apr 29 20:45:13 www postfix/qmgr[14988]: 323C516C973:
from=<sentto-13564268-2774-1177890332-d=dollteck.com at returns.groups.yahoo.com>,
size=12998, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Apr 29 20:45:13 www postfix/smtpd[23657]: disconnect from
n19.bullet.sp1.yahoo.com[69.147.64.216]

this what you need to see?


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 30 02:49:21 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 17:49:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix/mailman
In-Reply-To: <005601c78a94$7462e6a0$6cf5fea9@tecks>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704291749210500f3d402c9@msapiro>

Teck wrote:
>
>config  suse 10.0   postfix spanassassin amavisd clamd freshclam all running 
>mailman DID work.  im not sure just yet when it quit.  anyone of the members 
>can send to it and mailman does its thing and mail gets delivered to any 
>members of MY domain. it will not send to outside domains  in the mail log 
>all i get it  connection timed out and the mail returned to postfix 
>deferred. everytime i try to flush it same result.
> from any machine in my network(windows machines) i can send mail via my 
>mail server same as usual. sending via mailman to outside domains seems to 
>have broken during my install of..   mhonarc mharc and namazu....


So Mailman is delivering to postfix for ALL recipients, and Postfix
can't deliver the mail to external domains, but it tries. This
certainly seems like a pure Postfix or beyond issue to me.

This and similar log entries

Apr 29 20:45:01 www postfix/qmgr[14988]: E82BA16BA31:
to=<lissa***l at yahoo.com>, relay=none, delay=35229, status=deferred
(delivery
temporarily suspended: connect to yahoo.com[216.109.112.135]: server
dropped
connection without sending the initial SMTP greeting)

say to me that either yahoo is not accepting connects or just doesn't
like you, BUT there is some Postfix/DNS issue here. The address
216.109.112.135 is in the A record for yahoo.com, but it is not
associated with any of the MX names for the yahoo.com domain. Postfix
should be connecting to the MX servers for a domain and only
connecting to the A address if there are no MX records.

Are you sure you can mail directly to yahoo.com via the same Postfix?
Is your direct mail connecting to the same IP and port as Mailman is?
(Mailman is connecting to 'localhost' port 25 unless overriden by
SMTPHOST/SMTPPORT in mm_cfg.py.)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hesco at reclaimedcomputers.ca  Mon Apr 30 03:57:27 2007
From: hesco at reclaimedcomputers.ca (Hugh Esco)
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 18:57:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New list fails to archive
In-Reply-To: <PC17602007042917014108592f3a2344@msapiro>
References: <20070429140116.1555ebd5.hesco@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
	<PC17602007042917014108592f3a2344@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20070429185727.1389da6c.hesco@reclaimedcomputers.ca>

Thanks Mark.  Just the advise that was needed.  

Turns out that my script in init.d/ couldn't find its pid and so didn't
known how to shut anything down.  I had to use kill pid commands from
the ps listing.  But when it restarted, the archive runner started up
with the rest of them and the archives I was watching got populated with
a few tests.  

I think I'm in business here.  

Thanks for the help.

-- Hugh

On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 17:01:41 -0700
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Hugh Esco wrote:
> >
> >The moderation que appropriately snags unauthorized mail.  The list is
> >passing traffic through to the list.  But so far, I have seen no
> >evidence that anything is being archived, although I believe I've
> >appropriately configured these new lists to do that.  
> >
> >The root administrator on this server tells me that other lists hosted
> >with his server are being archived.  
> 
> 
> Do you believe this? It seems you may have shell access. If so, do
> 
> ps -fAw | grep python
> 
> to be sure that 1) ArchRunner is running and 2) if the command option
> is something other than --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 (i.e. if it is sliced)
> that all slices are running. E.g. if you see a process with option
> --runner=ArchRunner:0:2, there must be s second one with option
> --runner=ArchRunner:1:2. Whatever the second 'n' is there should be n
> processes with first number 0,1,...,n-1.
> 
> 
> >I've poked around and found the code, the lists, the archives
> >(directories have been created for my new lists, which seem to have the
> >same permissions and ownership as the lists who's archives do work) and
> >the logs.  But I haven't found any clues to my issue.  
> 
> 
> Also look in qfiles/archive to see if there are messages waiting to be
> archived.
> 
> If the lists are working, the list's archive attributes are 'Yes',
> ArchRunner is running and qfiles/archive is empty, yet your messages
> aren't being archived, I think there have to be exceptions in
> Mailman's error log.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 

From Brandon at WebsterRidge.com  Mon Apr 30 14:28:27 2007
From: Brandon at WebsterRidge.com (Brandon Sussman)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 08:28:27 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Placing a copyright notice in list messages.
In-Reply-To: <p06240800c25926521da8@[10.0.1.197]>
References: <PC17602007042808284704373cca45c4@msapiro>
	<p06240800c25926521da8@[10.0.1.197]>
Message-ID: <4635E0EB.4010505@WebsterRidge.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Brad Knowles wrote:
> On 4/28/07, Mark Sapiro quoted Brandon Sussman:
> 
>>>  Perhaps I should have asked instead:  "Where are is the 
>>> documentation stating
>>>  what (if any) fields are available for insertion into default header and
>>>  footer blocks?".
>>  In the "details for" links for msg_header, msg_footer, digest_header
>>  and digest_footer.
> 
> Which can be found in FAQ 3.41.
> 
> However, I would also suggest searching through the FAQ Wizard for 
> "footer" and reading all articles that are returned.  There's lots of 
> technical issues here that have to do with how mail clients structure 
> MIME and MIME/HTML messages and the limitations on what Mailman can 
> do.
> 
> Also, the FAQ 3.40/3.18/3.37 set of articles is another good one to 
> look at, when it comes to making customizations to Mailman, and the 
> limits on what you can do to change the look & feel, etc....
> 
Mark/Brad - thanks, that helps!

- --
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iQEVAwUBRjXg6tN2DJl/zagkAQKuewf9EqRv+dOTqQBGiI314BzmG9WgQo85DyXa
HzRsMgE9hKK4tXFCLIXSb71m8IDqv8bC0JVJgZSg8wZy0B8pJbFCCPDLgpL5y96k
sXULjSHaNnPTQLPBlM7RxSr+412d7e0Hr/iNXzYAjAk0xC1jxirKtAqHTz2eHPvC
JdO0Z2b3BIIHxFAOGBvtee06byP4yYm9iArGbdw40+pZLsptkMX5EAk6yE0NOqUJ
iHda8AV9lbPyhY9qtpoCo9ifMOi1tMYPxHOaGXLD5jdk+zWvgJtaJYv5xEt9bd8z
j/9flu07MI8GPCLO1weVhE01BiEcBo1R/6Afs5wz3xR5NLkw4txzQw==
=xXyo
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From jamielist at gmail.com  Mon Apr 30 20:03:59 2007
From: jamielist at gmail.com (Jamie Lists)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:03:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation Flag off but still needing to approve?
Message-ID: <b77f4b410704301103s39761a69w380b94ecdba4c1d0@mail.gmail.com>

We started using mailman for announce only mailing list for our school
district. We have all the subscribers setup to be moderated so they
can't post to the list.

The school principals and school secretaries are subscribers as well
but have the moderation bit turned off.

For some reason when they post I still have to goto a web-page and
approve the request.

I listed them as moderators and also as admin yet I still have to goto
the web page and approve the request. Is there anyway around this?
(other than adding a password to the email header)

We just need a list where a specified list of people can post to send
news to our parents, without me having to intervene for every email
they want to send out.

I've google searched this, searched for "announce only" in the mailman
list archives and read the FAQ here
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=all

Thanks,
Jamie

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 30 21:42:37 2007
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:42:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation Flag off but still needing to
	approve?
In-Reply-To: <b77f4b410704301103s39761a69w380b94ecdba4c1d0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200704301242370156b324cd01@msapiro>

Jamie Lists wrote:

>We started using mailman for announce only mailing list for our school
>district. We have all the subscribers setup to be moderated so they
>can't post to the list.
>
>The school principals and school secretaries are subscribers as well
>but have the moderation bit turned off.
>
>For some reason when they post I still have to goto a web-page and
>approve the request.


And for what reason is the message held? The reason is available in the
held message notice, the web admindb interface and Mailman's vette log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jamielist at gmail.com  Mon Apr 30 22:21:30 2007
From: jamielist at gmail.com (Jamie Lists)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:21:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation Flag off but still needing to
	approve?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200704301242370156b324cd01@msapiro>
References: <b77f4b410704301103s39761a69w380b94ecdba4c1d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200704301242370156b324cd01@msapiro>
Message-ID: <b77f4b410704301321t2d52b8c8y244f721bddc768c3@mail.gmail.com>

I figured out the problem. Turns out my end users we're bcc ing the
messages and so it was getting hung up with a "Message has implicit
destination" error.

It's working now.

Thanks!
Jamie

On 4/30/07, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Jamie Lists wrote:
>
> >We started using mailman for announce only mailing list for our school
> >district. We have all the subscribers setup to be moderated so they
> >can't post to the list.
> >
> >The school principals and school secretaries are subscribers as well
> >but have the moderation bit turned off.
> >
> >For some reason when they post I still have to goto a web-page and
> >approve the request.
>
>
> And for what reason is the message held? The reason is available in the
> held message notice, the web admindb interface and Mailman's vette log.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>