From carconni at earthlink.net  Sat Jul  1 21:57:56 2006
From: carconni at earthlink.net (Carconni)
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 12:57:56 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] isolating mailman attributes/variables
Message-ID: <18888785.1151783876301.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


Hi,

Hi

I have a few hundred lists.  During migration some of my reply to variables were over written with wrong reply to address.  This didn't happen to all of the lists but those that did have this overwrite need to be corrected.  (All my lists have explicit reply to).

For example:  List A at abc.xyz.com  has an explicit reply to A at xyz.com, List B at abc.xyz.com has an explicit reply to B at xyz.com.

Now C at abc.xyz.com should have an explicit reply to C at xyz.com but somehow wound up with B at xyz.com as it's reply to address.
In addition, B at xyz.com was written to some other lists as well.

Is there a way to weed out which lists have a given reply to address?  I don't really want to walk through each list to find out which list contains the wrong variable.

We have ./find_member.  Is there something like  ./find_variable?  I tried to use config_list to print out all my lists into one file so I can grep the reply to info but unfortunately each time the script looped to the next list it overwrote the results of the last result.

Thanks









From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jul  2 00:25:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 15:25:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] isolating mailman attributes/variables
In-Reply-To: <18888785.1151783876301.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607011525500250995fe28c@msapiro>

Carconni wrote:
>
>I have a few hundred lists.  During migration some of my reply to variables were over written with wrong reply to address.  This didn't happen to all of the lists but those that did have this overwrite need to be corrected.  (All my lists have explicit reply to).
>
>For example:  List A at abc.xyz.com  has an explicit reply to A at xyz.com, List B at abc.xyz.com has an explicit reply to B at xyz.com.
>
>Now C at abc.xyz.com should have an explicit reply to C at xyz.com but somehow wound up with B at xyz.com as it's reply to address.
>In addition, B at xyz.com was written to some other lists as well.


It seems from your example that just setting all your lists'
reply_goes_to_list to 'This list' would do what you want without
bothering with reply_to_address.


>Is there a way to weed out which lists have a given reply to address?  I don't really want to walk through each list to find out which list contains the wrong variable.


You could put the following 3-line script:

begins on next line------------------------------------
def find_reply_to_address(mlist):
    print 'List: %s: reply_to_address = %s' % \
        (mlist.real_name, mlist.reply_to_address)
ends on previous line----------------------------------

in the file bin/find_reply_to_address.py and then run

bin/withlist -a -r find_reply_to_address > output_file

Of course, you could put other logic in the script to only print the
list name if reply_to_address = 'b at xyz.com' or even to figure what the
address should be and change it, but the latter requires locking,
saving and unlocking the list in the script.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From bob at eawf.com  Sun Jul  2 01:11:23 2006
From: bob at eawf.com (Bob Holden)
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 16:11:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Passwords in Monthly Reminders Encrypted?
Message-ID: <200607011611230093.48C7159E@eawf.com>

I'm administering a group of lists and have monthly reminders set, and the reminder is being sent out on time and such, however, when I receive my copy of the password reminder, the passwords listed are incorrect, and it's almost like they're encrypted or something.

For an example, assume the password is "password", which works fine in the system.  When the reminder arrives, it shows the password as dkhbkesd, or something like that.

I've searched through the archives for a problem like this and haven't found anything yet.  Is there some setting that I'm missing, or have set incorrectly that is causing this?




From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jul  2 01:34:37 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 16:34:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Passwords in Monthly Reminders Encrypted?
In-Reply-To: <200607011611230093.48C7159E@eawf.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060701163437006276e059a3@msapiro>

Bob Holden wrote:
>
>For an example, assume the password is "password", which works fine in the system.  When the reminder arrives, it shows the password as dkhbkesd, or something like that.


I suspect that what you are seeing in this example is your original,
randomly generated, member password in the reminder which is
"dkhbkesd", and the password "password" is actually the list admin
password, not your member password.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tmbuff77 at iowatelecom.net  Sun Jul  2 01:50:16 2006
From: tmbuff77 at iowatelecom.net (Troy Buffum)
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 18:50:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Install
References: <PC174020060701163437006276e059a3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <00f301c69d69$1ce4c740$020fa8c0@DCR08M71>

Hi Everyone,
    I'm new to the group, and this is my first post.  In trying to determine 
wheather or not I can install Mailman on my hosting service, I've been 
speaking with their tech support.  One thing they told me was, "Anything 
that requires SSH to performa an install, will not be supported."
    I'm not really sure what SSH means.  I'm new to web hosting, and using 
servers.  But, a previous provider I had, used Mailman, which was already 
installed for each of their users.  So, I'm looking to use it again.  If 
someone can help with this, I'd greatly appreciate it.
   Thanks, Troy
PS:    The service I'm using is Webmasters.com, at www.webmasters.com. 



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jul  2 02:55:36 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 17:55:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Install
In-Reply-To: <00f301c69d69$1ce4c740$020fa8c0@DCR08M71>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607011755360640a024d224@msapiro>

Troy Buffum wrote:

>    I'm new to the group, and this is my first post.  In trying to determine 
>wheather or not I can install Mailman on my hosting service, I've been 
>speaking with their tech support.  One thing they told me was, "Anything 
>that requires SSH to performa an install, will not be supported."
>    I'm not really sure what SSH means.


ssh is "secure shell". It is a simple "secure" alternative to telnet.
Both are ways to remotely log in and access a command shell on the
host server.

I am assuming that by telling you that you can't have ssh access, they
are really saying you can't have any kind of shell access at all, be
it ssh, telnet, Kerberos, SSL or whatever. Since this is only a part
of what is required to install Mailman - one needs not only shell
access, but the ability to create a user and group, configure a web
server and configure an MTA - I seriously doubt that this host will
support your doing it.


>I'm new to web hosting, and using 
>servers.  But, a previous provider I had, used Mailman, which was already 
>installed for each of their users.  So, I'm looking to use it again.  If 
>someone can help with this, I'd greatly appreciate it.
>   Thanks, Troy
>PS:    The service I'm using is Webmasters.com, at www.webmasters.com. 


I doubt you are going to be able to have Mailman on this host. I
suggest you look for a separate Mailman hosting service for your lists
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.017.htp>
or a hosting service like your former service that offers both web
hosting and Mailman lists.
 
-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tmbuff77 at iowatelecom.net  Sun Jul  2 04:27:45 2006
From: tmbuff77 at iowatelecom.net (Troy Buffum)
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 21:27:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Install
References: <PC1740200607011755360640a024d224@msapiro>
Message-ID: <010601c69d7f$1d7c7160$020fa8c0@DCR08M71>

Thanks for the info Mark.  I think I may have found a provider, but still 
shopping around.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
To: "Troy Buffum" <tmbuff77 at iowatelecom.net>; <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] New Install


> Troy Buffum wrote:
>
>>    I'm new to the group, and this is my first post.  In trying to 
>> determine
>>wheather or not I can install Mailman on my hosting service, I've been
>>speaking with their tech support.  One thing they told me was, "Anything
>>that requires SSH to performa an install, will not be supported."
>>    I'm not really sure what SSH means.
>
>
> ssh is "secure shell". It is a simple "secure" alternative to telnet.
> Both are ways to remotely log in and access a command shell on the
> host server.
>
> I am assuming that by telling you that you can't have ssh access, they
> are really saying you can't have any kind of shell access at all, be
> it ssh, telnet, Kerberos, SSL or whatever. Since this is only a part
> of what is required to install Mailman - one needs not only shell
> access, but the ability to create a user and group, configure a web
> server and configure an MTA - I seriously doubt that this host will
> support your doing it.
>
>
>>I'm new to web hosting, and using
>>servers.  But, a previous provider I had, used Mailman, which was already
>>installed for each of their users.  So, I'm looking to use it again.  If
>>someone can help with this, I'd greatly appreciate it.
>>   Thanks, Troy
>>PS:    The service I'm using is Webmasters.com, at www.webmasters.com.
>
>
> I doubt you are going to be able to have Mailman on this host. I
> suggest you look for a separate Mailman hosting service for your lists
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.017.htp>
> or a hosting service like your former service that offers both web
> hosting and Mailman lists.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> 



From mangoo at wpkg.org  Mon Jul  3 00:46:13 2006
From: mangoo at wpkg.org (Tomasz Chmielewski)
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 00:46:13 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman minimal (memory) requirements?
Message-ID: <44A84CB5.8020204@wpkg.org>

I'm trying to run mailman 2.1.8 on a system with only 32 MB RAM (and 
~100 MB swap).

However, it fails to start - the system swaps very heavily, and then 
mailman gets killed by the kernel.

Without mailman started, the system uses about 12 MB RAM.


What are the minimal memory requirements for mailman (~1 post a day)?

Is it possible to minimize the memory usage by only running some parts 
of mailman (i.e., I only want the archive be viewable via the web 
interface).

-- 
Tomasz Chmielewski
http://syneticon.net


From andyk at spunge.org  Mon Jul  3 01:33:30 2006
From: andyk at spunge.org (Andy)
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 18:33:30 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 24 h delays in e-mails distribution.
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0607021832540.8905@chi.spunge.org>

> >From your description, I am guessing that you are doing some time
> consuming validation on SMTP transactions in your outgoing MTA and
> OutgoingRunner is hopelessly backlogged. If this is the case, it
> should be obvious from a detailed look at Mailman's 'smtp' log. If
> you're seeing SMTP for hundreds of recipients taking more than a few
> seconds and the difference between the timestamps of adjacent entries
> equal to the duration of the first entry, this is your problem.
>
> For starters, don't do DNS validation of RCPT commands in the MTA. Then
> look at the tuning tips for your MTA in section 6 of the FAQ
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py>.

Thank you for your reply.
The cause: the qrunner was sticking.
Rebooting the machine after deleting the E-mail that it was sticking on seems
to have fixed the problem.

andy



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jul  3 02:10:56 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 20:10:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman minimal (memory) requirements?
In-Reply-To: <44A84CB5.8020204@wpkg.org>
References: <44A84CB5.8020204@wpkg.org>
Message-ID: <34559.72.177.126.107.1151885456.squirrel@mail.his.com>

Tomasz Chmielewski wrote:

> I'm trying to run mailman 2.1.8 on a system with only 32 MB RAM (and
> ~100 MB swap).

I think that's unlikely to work well.

> However, it fails to start - the system swaps very heavily, and then
> mailman gets killed by the kernel.

I'm not surprised.

> Without mailman started, the system uses about 12 MB RAM.
>
> What are the minimal memory requirements for mailman (~1 post a day)?

There is some info in FAQ 1.24 on this subject (see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.024.htp>),
but this doesn't include the kinds of hard numbers that I think you're
probably looking for.


I don't know what the absolute minimum requirements are, but keep in mind
that you not only have to have memory and swap for Mailman, but also the
MTA and the web server.

Checking the memory requirements for just Mailman on a relatively
low-traffic server that I have access to, I find that it currently takes
about 130MB of virtual memory, and 26MB of real RAM, just for the Mailman
stuff alone.

The web server component looks like it's running about 77MB swap and 19MB
RAM, while the MTA is 29MB swap and 11MB RAM.


So, at an absolute minimum, this machine would require ~236MB swap space
and ~56MB of real RAM, plus the OS requirements.  Given these numbers, I
wouldn't try to run Mailman on a machine with less than 512MB of swap and
128MB of RAM.

> Is it possible to minimize the memory usage by only running some parts
> of mailman (i.e., I only want the archive be viewable via the web
> interface).

I don't think you're going to cut down those memory requirements by much,
at least not for Mailman itself.  You might be able to find a web server
that requires less swap and RAM, and an MTA that is lighter in
requirements, but in my experience Mailman itself is pretty much the same
all over.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jul  3 03:23:00 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 18:23:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman minimal (memory) requirements?
In-Reply-To: <34559.72.177.126.107.1151885456.squirrel@mail.his.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607021823000625ab014e91@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>Tomasz Chmielewski wrote:
>
>> Is it possible to minimize the memory usage by only running some parts
>> of mailman (i.e., I only want the archive be viewable via the web
>> interface).
>
>I don't think you're going to cut down those memory requirements by much,
>at least not for Mailman itself.  You might be able to find a web server
>that requires less swap and RAM, and an MTA that is lighter in
>requirements, but in my experience Mailman itself is pretty much the same
>all over.


To elaborate a bit, as Brad says, you need to have a web server and MTA
running. Other than that, there is no constant, even when idle, memory
usage by Mailman to support the web interface or incoming mail.
Incoming mail causes the MTA to invoke the mail wrapper which receives
the mail and passes it to a python process which stores it it the
appropriate queue and exits. Likewise, a web request causes the web
server to invoke a CGI wrapper which passes the request to a python
process which produces the output page and exits.

The heavy, continuous memory usage is in the queue runners. You may not
need to run NewsRunner at all. You can eliminate it by adding

QRUNNERS.remove(('NewsRunner',1))

to mm_cfg.py. The other 7 runners are required at least occasionally so
you can't just remove them. With a moderate amount of hacking, you
could probably revert to the old method of qrunners being started at
intervals by cron and exiting when they have nothing to do. If you
staggered the schedule, you might be able to achieve a situation where
only one or two runners were ever running at the same time. Also, some
runners like BounceRunner and RetryRunner could be run significantly
less frequently than others.

The downside to this is there is a lot of repeated work in starting the
runners, but if you have sufficient cpu and disk i/o capacity, this
might be a viable way to cut down on memory utilization.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mangoo at wpkg.org  Mon Jul  3 08:38:21 2006
From: mangoo at wpkg.org (Tomasz Chmielewski)
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 08:38:21 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman minimal (memory) requirements?
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607021823000625ab014e91@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200607021823000625ab014e91@msapiro>
Message-ID: <44A8BB5D.7020704@wpkg.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

(...)

> To elaborate a bit, as Brad says, you need to have a web server and MTA
> running. Other than that, there is no constant, even when idle, memory
> usage by Mailman to support the web interface or incoming mail.
> Incoming mail causes the MTA to invoke the mail wrapper which receives
> the mail and passes it to a python process which stores it it the
> appropriate queue and exits. Likewise, a web request causes the web
> server to invoke a CGI wrapper which passes the request to a python
> process which produces the output page and exits.
> 
> The heavy, continuous memory usage is in the queue runners. You may not
> need to run NewsRunner at all. You can eliminate it by adding
> 
> QRUNNERS.remove(('NewsRunner',1))
> 
> to mm_cfg.py. The other 7 runners are required at least occasionally so
> you can't just remove them. With a moderate amount of hacking, you
> could probably revert to the old method of qrunners being started at
> intervals by cron and exiting when they have nothing to do. If you
> staggered the schedule, you might be able to achieve a situation where
> only one or two runners were ever running at the same time. Also, some
> runners like BounceRunner and RetryRunner could be run significantly
> less frequently than others.
> 
> The downside to this is there is a lot of repeated work in starting the
> runners, but if you have sufficient cpu and disk i/o capacity, this
> might be a viable way to cut down on memory utilization.

Hmm, so I guess my plan of running mailman on a tiny mipsel-based router 
will not succeed :(


Right now, with a mail and web servers it uses about 12 MB RAM, I just 
had hope ~20 MB RAM would be far enough for mailman.

But it seems that without a fair amount of hacking, it won't be possible 
(or even it won't be possible at all).


Anyone knows some lighter list archivers (if I just want to display 
messages from a mailing list via a web interface, sorted by months, 
years etc.)?


-- 
Tomasz Chmielewski
http://wpkg.org


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  3 09:17:33 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 03:17:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Next Gen stuff (was: mailman minimal (memory)
	requirements?)
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607021823000625ab014e91@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200607021823000625ab014e91@msapiro>
Message-ID: <44A8C48D.1070506@yahoo.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> To elaborate a bit, as Brad says, you need to have a web server and MTA
> running. 

Personally, I would like to see Mailman break it's reliance on a local 
local webserver.  Currently you can't really move the Mailman logic 
(queue, archives, notifications, sign-up pages, admin pages, etc) to 
separate hosts without involving NFS or other shared fs technology.  I 
think with a little RPC or other technology it would be *great* to start 
breaking things apart in the next generation stuff.  Not so much for 
scalability, but for redundancy.  Just my $.02.

-Jim P.


From tmbuff77 at iowatelecom.net  Mon Jul  3 16:41:41 2006
From: tmbuff77 at iowatelecom.net (Troy Buffum)
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 09:41:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Next Generation
References: <PC1740200607021823000625ab014e91@msapiro>
	<44A8C48D.1070506@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <008001c69eae$cf24c770$020fa8c0@DCR08M71>


-----"Jim Popovitch" wrote----- 
> Personally, I would like to see Mailman break it's reliance on a local
> local webserver.  Currently you can't really move the Mailman logic
> (queue, archives, notifications, sign-up pages, admin pages, etc) to
> separate hosts without involving NFS or other shared fs technology.  I
> think with a little RPC or other technology it would be *great* to start
> breaking things apart in the next generation stuff.  Not so much for
> scalability, but for redundancy.  Just my $.02.
>
> -Jim P.

This sounds like a great idea; especially for memory consumption, at least 
in my opinion.  But then, I'm not too knowledgable when it comes to 
networking; as of yet.  I'm wondering, what other purposes could this serve. 
I'm thinking, if there's a decent benifit scale, it may draw some attention 
to the developers.  Hmmm?
   Troy B. 



From cpz at tuunq.com  Mon Jul  3 18:31:49 2006
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 09:31:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman minimal (memory) requirements?
In-Reply-To: <34559.72.177.126.107.1151885456.squirrel@mail.his.com> from Brad
	Knowles at "Jul 2, 2006 08:10:56 pm"
Message-ID: <20060703163149.9AA387AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Brad Knowles wrote:
> Tomasz Chmielewski wrote:
> 
> > I'm trying to run mailman 2.1.8 on a system with only 32 MB RAM (and
> > ~100 MB swap).

> So, at an absolute minimum, this machine would require ~236MB swap space
> and ~56MB of real RAM, plus the OS requirements.  Given these numbers, I
> wouldn't try to run Mailman on a machine with less than 512MB of swap and
> 128MB of RAM.

FWIW, I'm running mailman on an openbsd system w/ 64M ram and 200M swap
on an old Compaq P90.  Active software includes mailman (2.1.5), apache, 
postfix, and bind.  Not very speedy, but works well enough for <50 member 
lists.

top tells me:
Memory: Real: 23M/47M act/tot  Free: 11M  Swap: 41M/200M used/tot

> I don't think you're going to cut down those memory requirements by much,
> at least not for Mailman itself.  You might be able to find a web server
> that requires less swap and RAM, and an MTA that is lighter in
> requirements, but in my experience Mailman itself is pretty much the same
> all over.

There are tiny web and smtp servers, but I suspect that most of them will
be missing -some- feature that mailman needs. While trying to shoehorn a
working system onto some "interesting" platform can be fun, life will be
easier if you can add a bunch of memory.

z!


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jul  3 19:21:51 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 13:21:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Next Gen stuff (was: mailman minimal (memory)
 requirements?)
In-Reply-To: <44A8C48D.1070506@yahoo.com>
References: <PC1740200607021823000625ab014e91@msapiro>
	<44A8C48D.1070506@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <35943.72.177.126.107.1151947311.squirrel@mail.his.com>

Jim Popovitch wrote:

> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> To elaborate a bit, as Brad says, you need to have a web server and MTA
>> running.
>
> Personally, I would like to see Mailman break it's reliance on a local
> local webserver.  Currently you can't really move the Mailman logic
> (queue, archives, notifications, sign-up pages, admin pages, etc) to
> separate hosts without involving NFS or other shared fs technology.

Feel free to put that on the wish list via the Mailman wiki at
<http://wiki.list.org/>, or file an RFE via the SourceForge page at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=350103>.

If you could help code up such a feature, please take the rest of this
discussion to the mailman-developers list.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jul  3 19:45:59 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 13:45:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman minimal (memory) requirements?
In-Reply-To: <20060703163149.9AA387AE@mail.tuunq.com>
References: <34559.72.177.126.107.1151885456.squirrel@mail.his.com> from Brad
	Knowles at "Jul 2, 2006 08:10:56 pm"
	<20060703163149.9AA387AE@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <36233.72.177.126.107.1151948759.squirrel@mail.his.com>

Carl Zwanzig wrote:

>> > I'm trying to run mailman 2.1.8 on a system with only 32 MB RAM (and
>> > ~100 MB swap).
>
>> So, at an absolute minimum, this machine would require ~236MB swap space
>> and ~56MB of real RAM, plus the OS requirements.  Given these numbers, I
>> wouldn't try to run Mailman on a machine with less than 512MB of swap
>> and 128MB of RAM.
>
> FWIW, I'm running mailman on an openbsd system w/ 64M ram and 200M swap
> on an old Compaq P90.  Active software includes mailman (2.1.5), apache,
> postfix, and bind.  Not very speedy, but works well enough for <50 member
> lists.

Cool.  I'll update the FAQ entry with this info.

> top tells me:
> Memory: Real: 23M/47M act/tot  Free: 11M  Swap: 41M/200M used/tot

Can you get more process-specific information about Mailman, apache,
postfix, and BIND?

On the BSD system I previously quoted from, I was running commands like:

    % ps auxww | grep -i mailman | awk '{ sum+=$5 } END { print sum }'

... in order to get the VSZ (virtual size) information, and using
"...$6..." to get the physical RAM usage.

> There are tiny web and smtp servers, but I suspect that most of them will
> be missing -some- feature that mailman needs. While trying to shoehorn a
> working system onto some "interesting" platform can be fun, life will be
> easier if you can add a bunch of memory.

Yup.  But it would be interesting to do some tests and see if we can find
out what a reasonable minimum system configuration really is for these
kinds of things.  Your 64MB/200MB system is smaller than I thought would
work even moderately well (based on the information I had gathered), but
it may be that we could cut things down even more.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From mangoo at wpkg.org  Mon Jul  3 23:00:03 2006
From: mangoo at wpkg.org (Tomasz Chmielewski)
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 23:00:03 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman minimal (memory) requirements?
In-Reply-To: <36233.72.177.126.107.1151948759.squirrel@mail.his.com>
References: <34559.72.177.126.107.1151885456.squirrel@mail.his.com> from Brad
	Knowles at "Jul 2,
	2006 08:10:56 pm" <20060703163149.9AA387AE@mail.tuunq.com>
	<36233.72.177.126.107.1151948759.squirrel@mail.his.com>
Message-ID: <44A98553.7020709@wpkg.org>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> Carl Zwanzig wrote:
> 
>>>> I'm trying to run mailman 2.1.8 on a system with only 32 MB RAM (and
>>>> ~100 MB swap).
>>> So, at an absolute minimum, this machine would require ~236MB swap space
>>> and ~56MB of real RAM, plus the OS requirements.  Given these numbers, I
>>> wouldn't try to run Mailman on a machine with less than 512MB of swap
>>> and 128MB of RAM.
>> FWIW, I'm running mailman on an openbsd system w/ 64M ram and 200M swap
>> on an old Compaq P90.  Active software includes mailman (2.1.5), apache,
>> postfix, and bind.  Not very speedy, but works well enough for <50 member
>> lists.
> 
> Cool.  I'll update the FAQ entry with this info.
> 
>> top tells me:
>> Memory: Real: 23M/47M act/tot  Free: 11M  Swap: 41M/200M used/tot

You can update it with "really minimal system": I added some more swap, 
and mailman started :)

So right now, it is:

- debian running on a 200 MHz mipsel CPU / 32 MB router (ASUS WL-500G 
deluxe)
- usb stick with 256 MB swap
- system on another USB-stick
- it runs apache2, postfix, sshd, openvpn, ez-ipupdate, crond, pppd and 
syslog
- it acts as a internet gateway to a couple of PCs

I wouldn't say that mailman is speedy there - an average operation in 
the mailman web interface can take even 10-15-20 seconds.

But the thing that was the most important to me: web archive, works 
fast, and on average, it takes less than a second to serve a page.

Provided that it's not a PC, but a router with a size of a book, with 
filesystem and swap on usb-sticks, I would say it's OK to keep an 
archive of a small site.


-- 
Tomasz Chmielewski

Software deployment with Samba
http://wpkg.org



From timo.schoeler at riscworks.net  Mon Jul  3 23:05:41 2006
From: timo.schoeler at riscworks.net (Timo Schoeler)
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 23:05:41 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman minimal (memory) requirements?
In-Reply-To: <44A98553.7020709@wpkg.org>
References: <34559.72.177.126.107.1151885456.squirrel@mail.his.com> from
	Brad	Knowles at "Jul 2, 2006 08:10:56 pm"
	<20060703163149.9AA387AE@mail.tuunq.com>	<36233.72.177.126.107.1151948759.squirrel@mail.his.com>
	<44A98553.7020709@wpkg.org>
Message-ID: <44A986A5.5010007@riscworks.net>

thus Tomasz Chmielewski spake:
> Brad Knowles wrote:
>> Carl Zwanzig wrote:
>>
>>>>> I'm trying to run mailman 2.1.8 on a system with only 32 MB RAM (and
>>>>> ~100 MB swap).
>>>> So, at an absolute minimum, this machine would require ~236MB swap space
>>>> and ~56MB of real RAM, plus the OS requirements.  Given these numbers, I
>>>> wouldn't try to run Mailman on a machine with less than 512MB of swap
>>>> and 128MB of RAM.
>>> FWIW, I'm running mailman on an openbsd system w/ 64M ram and 200M swap
>>> on an old Compaq P90.  Active software includes mailman (2.1.5), apache,
>>> postfix, and bind.  Not very speedy, but works well enough for <50 member
>>> lists.
>> Cool.  I'll update the FAQ entry with this info.
>>
>>> top tells me:
>>> Memory: Real: 23M/47M act/tot  Free: 11M  Swap: 41M/200M used/tot
> 
> You can update it with "really minimal system": I added some more swap, 
> and mailman started :)
> 
> So right now, it is:
> 
> - debian running on a 200 MHz mipsel CPU / 32 MB router (ASUS WL-500G 
> deluxe)
> - usb stick with 256 MB swap
> - system on another USB-stick
> - it runs apache2, postfix, sshd, openvpn, ez-ipupdate, crond, pppd and 
> syslog
> - it acts as a internet gateway to a couple of PCs
> 
> I wouldn't say that mailman is speedy there - an average operation in 
> the mailman web interface can take even 10-15-20 seconds.

hm, that might be python causing paging on the machine; however, maybe 
if you use a httpd with smaller footprint (lighthttpd, thttpd) this 
avoids paging and makes the machine faster. just speculation, tho...

> But the thing that was the most important to me: web archive, works 
> fast, and on average, it takes less than a second to serve a page.
> 
> Provided that it's not a PC, but a router with a size of a book, with 
> filesystem and swap on usb-sticks, I would say it's OK to keep an 
> archive of a small site.

MIPS rules ;)

-- 
Timo Schoeler | http://riscworks.net/~tis | timo.schoeler at riscworks.net
RISCworks -- Perfection is a powerful message
ISP | POWER & PowerPC afficinados | Networking, Security, BSD services
GPG Key fingerprint = B5F6 68A4 EC45 C309 6770  38C4 50E8 2740 9E0C F20A

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary
and those who don't.


From mangoo at wpkg.org  Mon Jul  3 23:18:38 2006
From: mangoo at wpkg.org (Tomasz Chmielewski)
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 23:18:38 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman minimal (memory) requirements?
In-Reply-To: <44A986A5.5010007@riscworks.net>
References: <34559.72.177.126.107.1151885456.squirrel@mail.his.com> from
	Brad	Knowles at "Jul 2, 2006 08:10:56 pm"
	<20060703163149.9AA387AE@mail.tuunq.com>	<36233.72.177.126.107.1151948759.squirrel@mail.his.com>
	<44A98553.7020709@wpkg.org> <44A986A5.5010007@riscworks.net>
Message-ID: <44A989AE.4060907@wpkg.org>

Timo Schoeler wrote:

(...)

>> You can update it with "really minimal system": I added some more 
>> swap, and mailman started :)
>>
>> So right now, it is:
>>
>> - debian running on a 200 MHz mipsel CPU / 32 MB router (ASUS WL-500G 
>> deluxe)
>> - usb stick with 256 MB swap
>> - system on another USB-stick
>> - it runs apache2, postfix, sshd, openvpn, ez-ipupdate, crond, pppd 
>> and syslog
>> - it acts as a internet gateway to a couple of PCs
>>
>> I wouldn't say that mailman is speedy there - an average operation in 
>> the mailman web interface can take even 10-15-20 seconds.
> 
> hm, that might be python causing paging on the machine; however, maybe 
> if you use a httpd with smaller footprint (lighthttpd, thttpd) this 
> avoids paging and makes the machine faster. just speculation, tho...

I'd gain a megabyte or two, perhaps I could get rid of postfix and 
install something smaller, too, but I'm too lazy :)


>> But the thing that was the most important to me: web archive, works 
>> fast, and on average, it takes less than a second to serve a page.
>>
>> Provided that it's not a PC, but a router with a size of a book, with 
>> filesystem and swap on usb-sticks, I would say it's OK to keep an 
>> archive of a small site.
> 
> MIPS rules ;)

I forgot some numbers:

# free
              total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:         29664      25360       4304          0        652       7364
-/+ buffers/cache:      17344      12320
Swap:       255744      33296     222448



-- 
Tomasz Chmielewski

Software deployment with Samba
http://wpkg.org



From jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu  Mon Jul  3 23:24:53 2006
From: jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu (Jewel)
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 16:24:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Script problem
Message-ID: <44A98B25.1030204@washburn.edu>

I am trying to write a script which will email me a list of all the 
lists and their members.  I was able to find the following below but 
keep getting errors when I try and execute it.   I have made the file 
executable.

   for i in `/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_lists -b`;
   do
     j=`/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_members $i |wc -l`
     echo "list $i has $j members"
   done


Jewel



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jul  3 23:54:56 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 17:54:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman minimal (memory) requirements?
In-Reply-To: <44A98553.7020709@wpkg.org>
References: <34559.72.177.126.107.1151885456.squirrel@mail.his.com> from Brad
	Knowles at "Jul 2, 2006 08:10:56 pm"   
	<20060703163149.9AA387AE@mail.tuunq.com>
	<36233.72.177.126.107.1151948759.squirrel@mail.his.com>
	<44A98553.7020709@wpkg.org>
Message-ID: <38591.72.177.126.107.1151963696.squirrel@mail.his.com>

Tomasz Chmielewski wrote:

> You can update it with "really minimal system": I added some more swap,
> and mailman started :)

Cool.  I've updated the page.

> I wouldn't say that mailman is speedy there - an average operation in
> the mailman web interface can take even 10-15-20 seconds.

It would be interesting to know how much memory (both virtual and real)
were being taken up by Mailman, your MTA, your webserver, etc....  If we
can get those kinds of numbers for your system, Carl's, the systems I have
access to, and maybe some others, then we can start to put together a
better set of recommendations based on traffic and resources.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From tmz at pobox.com  Tue Jul  4 01:11:03 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 19:11:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Script problem
In-Reply-To: <44A98B25.1030204@washburn.edu>
References: <44A98B25.1030204@washburn.edu>
Message-ID: <20060703231103.GP28055@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Jewel wrote:
> I am trying to write a script which will email me a list of all the 
> lists and their members.

The script below will only output a count of list members (that's what
the |wc -l does).

> I was able to find the following below but keep getting errors when
> I try and execute it.

What are the errors?

> I have made the file executable.

You'd also need to include a #!/path/to/your/shell at the top,
probably #!/bin/sh in this case.

>    for i in `/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_lists -b`;
>    do
>      j=`/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_members $i |wc -l`
                                                 ^^^^^^
Remove the |wc -l if you want to get the list members.  With the -l
option, wc will simply print the number of lines in the output it's
given.

I think this is more like what you're asking for:

#!/bin/sh

for list in `/usr/local/mailman/bin/list_lists -b`; do
    echo "$list members:"
    /usr/local/mailman/bin/list_members "$list"
    echo
done

You could also create a separate email for each list which might make
it easier to keep track of once it reached your mailbox.  There are
probably some scripts like this in the FAQ, and there are surely some
in the list archives.  Jon Carnes posted some way back, IIRC.

- -- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
Everyone needs to believe in something. I believe I'll have another
beer.

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Version: GnuPG v1.4.4 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkSppAcmGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1plGACeOnGm0E3XF49YbTJKRWX0eSGkG38An3fXl4BC
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=qO/Q
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From rtscruiser at gmail.com  Tue Jul  4 17:00:43 2006
From: rtscruiser at gmail.com (Robert Temple)
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 11:00:43 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Install Suggestion
Message-ID: <33b3b19d0607040800v737ed51drd535e527cb07d5f@mail.gmail.com>

This is my first post to the group, so first off - hello everyone!

I am a small hosting provider, and have been using Mailman for all my
clients seeking a group email list. Recently, Mailman stopped working for
all of my clients. My server company is blaming CPanel for not "getting
along" with Mailman and says there's nothing they can do.

I would be happy to do a manual install myself, but I don't have shell
access on my shared server.

So I'm wondering why there isn't a simpler install proceedure for Mailman
that doesn't require shell access? I've installed other open source programs
that deal with mail servers with no problem, i.e. Dadamail, WebCalendar,
etc.

There really isn't any other open source program that does what Mailman does
as well as Mailman does, but I'm going to have to move to Dadamail for these
kinds of lists in the future.

I'm guessing this would require a major re-write of Mailman or an easier
install would already be available, but just thought I'd through the idea
out there.

Thanks, everyone.


From wash at wananchi.com  Tue Jul  4 16:53:49 2006
From: wash at wananchi.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 17:53:49 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-2.2 whereis?
Message-ID: <20060704145349.GD15493@wananchi.com>

Hi,

Is there a way to preview the features that will be coming in 
Mailman-2.2, if any such beast is in the cooking? I tried looking
at the CVS, but somehow I failed to get it.


        cheers
       - wash 
+----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
Odhiambo Washington            		. WANANCHI ONLINE LTD (Nairobi, KE)  |
wash () WANANCHI ! com			. 1ere Etage, Loita Hse, Loita St.,  |
GSM: (+254) 722 743 223			. # 10286, 00100 NAIROBI             |
GSM: (+254) 733 744 121			. (+254) 020 313 985 - 9             |
+---------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!"  
						 --from a /. post


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jul  4 17:37:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 08:37:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Install Suggestion
In-Reply-To: <33b3b19d0607040800v737ed51drd535e527cb07d5f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607040837560125273df095@msapiro>

Robert Temple wrote:
>
>I am a small hosting provider, and have been using Mailman for all my
>clients seeking a group email list. Recently, Mailman stopped working for
>all of my clients. My server company is blaming CPanel for not "getting
>along" with Mailman and says there's nothing they can do.


I think there certainly is something they can do. They can follow the
applicable steps (mostly 5 - 8 for lists that 'stop working') at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>
to try to determine and fix the problem.


>I would be happy to do a manual install myself, but I don't have shell
>access on my shared server.
>
>So I'm wondering why there isn't a simpler install proceedure for Mailman
>that doesn't require shell access? I've installed other open source programs
>that deal with mail servers with no problem, i.e. Dadamail, WebCalendar,
>etc.


Currently, even after installation, a Mailman site administrator needs
shell access to the Mailman 'command line' tools to effectively
administer the installation.

Perhaps as the GUI gets extended and it becomes more practical to
administer an installation without shell access, we can consider
trying to do something with the install process. I don't have any real
experience at the 'nuts and bolts' level with non-command line
installations so I don't know how difficult this would be, but I see
several potential issues such as the need to create a 'mailman'
user/group and the need for configuration changes to both the incoming
MTA and the web server to integrate with Mailman, not to mention the
multiple MTAs and web servers that need to be supported.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jul  4 17:47:30 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 08:47:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-2.2 whereis?
In-Reply-To: <20060704145349.GD15493@wananchi.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006070408473006407353917e@msapiro>

Odhiambo Washington wrote:
>
>Is there a way to preview the features that will be coming in 
>Mailman-2.2, if any such beast is in the cooking? I tried looking
>at the CVS, but somehow I failed to get it.

It's the Subversion trunk -
<http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/mailman/trunk/>.

It's of course a work in progress, but I think a current snapshot
actually works. If you're going to try it, set up a separate test
installation. If you install it over your current Mailman, it will be
difficult to back it out. The NEWS file is probably not completely up
to date.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From noc at iem.at  Wed Jul  5 12:30:14 2006
From: noc at iem.at (IEM - network operating center)
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 12:30:14 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] accepting posts based on a header-field
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006053107430805319fc6303b@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006053107430805319fc6303b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <44AB94B6.3090906@iem.at>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> so my second thought was to auto-accept postings to the "users" list 
>> which has a special header-field (i thought that the "List-ID"-field 
>> would just be ok for my purposes).
>> unfortunately i found that this wasn't possible (i am running debian and 
>> tried both 2.1.5-8sarge2 (which is basically 2.1.5 with some 
>> cross-site-scripting security issues fixed) and 2.1.8)
> 
> 
> You could do this with a custom handler which is not a patch in that
> once it is implemented and installed, it survives upgrades. See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.067.htp>

yes true, i thought of that.
but then i didn't want to spend to much time in learning how to do such 
a handler in a "clean" way. it is quite important to me that code and 
configuration are kept separately.
i guess this is possible (but i haven't dived too deep into this)
as far as i could overlook the custom handler thing, it also means that 
i would have to add such handler for each mailing list (e.g. copy the 
code snippet to each list i would want to enable my feature). so it was 
all too much of a hazzle...


anyhow, i have set up a small HOW-TO about my solution (using 
exim&procmail) at http://iem.at/Members/zmoelnig/mailmanprocmail

feel free, if you want to put it into a more "official" place.


mfg.asd.r
IOhannes


From lists.james.edwards at gmail.com  Wed Jul  5 20:22:06 2006
From: lists.james.edwards at gmail.com (james edwards)
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 12:22:06 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving mailman to a new box
Message-ID: <b7f636a60607051122m3413cbe7yc11bd38c2a377f66@mail.gmail.com>

I am moving our mailman server to a new box. On the old box I was running
mailman-2.1.5.32.FC3 and on the new box mailman-2.1.5.1-34rhel4.3.
What dirs and files do I need to copy over from the old to the new box
to make mailman work ?

james


From ivanrolim at bol.com.br  Thu Jul  6 02:58:16 2006
From: ivanrolim at bol.com.br (Ivan Aedler)
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 17:58:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix + Mailman with GID errors - fixed!
Message-ID: <5192191.post@talk.nabble.com>


>Has anyone set up mailman and Postfix on their RedHat box??
>I am getting the dreaded GID error,

>Mar 11 11:21:01 cascade postfix/local[8621]: A84803EF5: 
>to=<test at cascade.off.ournet.com.au>, relay=local, delay=1,
status=bounced 
>(Command died with status 2: "/var/mailman/mail/wrapper post test". Command 
>output: Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 99.  (Reconfigure to 
>take 99?) 

>And have read the mailman help file as to the fix, It suggests rebuilding 
>mailman with;

>./configure --with-mail-gid=thegid

>thegid = the result of running;
>% python -c'import os; print os.getgid()
>as the mailman user (which if I do this, I get thegid=41

>(Which I am suspect about as 12 or 99 != 41)

>If I am installing from a Redhat RPM, I cannot do this...  I have altered 
>the postfix option of:

>default_privs = mail

>(which is the gid of 12) and this allows me to use mailman, but it may have 
>some effect on postfix and privs??

>Can anyone enlighten me to if this is ok, or if I need to un-install the 
>RPM and install mailman from source and configure with my options.

Thanks
Brian 
-----------------------------------------
Hi Brian, I had also this problem on SUSE (wanted GID 67, GOT 65533), where
65533 was NOBODY user (very strange , no?), but I just edited
/etc/postfix/main.cf and included:

default_privs: mailman

Man, this DESTROYED the ?dread GID? mith :) All is working perfectly! This
is because POSTFIX sometimes messes with GIDs (God knows why!!), thats
because DEFAULT values for GID are created in other areas of the system (I
tried to UNINSTALL, reboot and then REINSTALL postfix again TO NO AVAIL) :(

I?m just putting this add on because there was NO responses from other
forums (I discovered this BY MYSELF), so now people can search for ?GID
errors SUSE?, for example, and try other names, not just mail and mailman. 
Thanks , thanks really :) We dont need to reinvent the well :).
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Postfix-%2B-Mailman-with-GID-errors---fixed%21-tf1897988.html#a5192191
Sent from the Mailman - Users forum at Nabble.com.



From ivanrolim at bol.com.br  Thu Jul  6 13:52:07 2006
From: ivanrolim at bol.com.br (Ivan Aedler)
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 04:52:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix + Mailman with GID errors - fixed!
In-Reply-To: <5192191.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <5192191.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <5198176.post@talk.nabble.com>


Yesterday, it also threw the error, while accessing my mail list in FIREFOX:
------------------------------
Mailman CGI error!!!
The Mailman CGI wrapper encountered a fatal error. This entry is being
stored in your syslog:

Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 67, GOT gid 8
-----------------------------
The fix: just edit /etc/mailman/mailman.mail-gid
                             /etc/mailman/mailman.cgi-gid

and put the expected GID.
Just dont ask me why..... I just restarted my PC when this problem occurred
for the first time. But now it? documented :)
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Postfix-%2B-Mailman-with-GID-errors---fixed%21-tf1897988.html#a5198176
Sent from the Mailman - Users forum at Nabble.com.



From brenno at webspees.nl  Thu Jul  6 16:00:40 2006
From: brenno at webspees.nl (brenno at webspees.nl)
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 16:00:40 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <13059.195.99.66.216.1152194440.squirrel@webmail.webspees.nl>

Hi all,

First posting here....

I have a mailman (2.1.8) running on a Debian (testing - etch) box.

Unfortunately I am encountering problems with sending HTML email to the
mailing lists. Mailman seems to alter the email message and add the
original HTML email as an attachment.

I dont want mailman to do that! But I can't seem to find how and where
mailman does this.

I have content filtering switched off and the option 'convert text/html to
text/plain' has been switched off as well.

Can you point me to some directions where I can disable this 'feature'?

Many thanks!



Brenno.



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jul  6 16:38:15 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 07:38:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML converted to attachment was:(no subject)
In-Reply-To: <13059.195.99.66.216.1152194440.squirrel@webmail.webspees.nl>
Message-ID: <PC17402006070607381501563f450dcb@msapiro>

brenno at webspees.nl wrote:
>
>Unfortunately I am encountering problems with sending HTML email to the
>mailing lists. Mailman seems to alter the email message and add the
>original HTML email as an attachment.
>
>I have content filtering switched off and the option 'convert text/html to
>text/plain' has been switched off as well.

Remove the message header and footer (msg_header and msg_footer on the
admin Non-digest options page. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Jul  6 18:27:13 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 11:27:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving mailman to a new box
In-Reply-To: <b7f636a60607051122m3413cbe7yc11bd38c2a377f66@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b7f636a60607051122m3413cbe7yc11bd38c2a377f66@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607060927n6e4d305cnedeee33454667810@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/5/06, james edwards <lists.james.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:
> I am moving our mailman server to a new box. On the old box I was running
> mailman-2.1.5.32.FC3 and on the new box mailman-2.1.5.1-34rhel4.3.
> What dirs and files do I need to copy over from the old to the new box
> to make mailman work ?

FAQ 3.4 <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.004.htp>
should be helpful in this matter. If you have any questions or issues
after reading that, feel free to ask.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From tmbuff77 at iowatelecom.net  Sun Jul  2 01:04:38 2006
From: tmbuff77 at iowatelecom.net (Troy Buffum)
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 18:04:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Check
Message-ID: <00e201c69d62$bd4cf150$020fa8c0@DCR08M71>

Just checking to see if my subscription to this list went through...

From Jason at Weatherserver.net  Thu Jul  6 21:05:12 2006
From: Jason at Weatherserver.net (Jason [WeatherServer])
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 15:05:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Check
References: <00e201c69d62$bd4cf150$020fa8c0@DCR08M71>
Message-ID: <001701c6a12f$1bcafae0$1400000a@workstation>

It didn't sorry.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Troy Buffum" <tmbuff77 at iowatelecom.net>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 7:04 PM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Check


Just checking to see if my subscription to this list went through...
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jason%40weatherserver.net

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp




From briano at aiaa.org  Fri Jul  7 03:59:17 2006
From: briano at aiaa.org (Brian Oliver)
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 21:59:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Capital Letter (first letter) Maillist Issue
Message-ID: <44ADBFF5.4020006@aiaa.org>

Here is my issue.  I have a maillist named 
itservices at mailman.whatever.org when I post to the list nothing 
happens.  But when I capitalize the "I" in itservices to 
Itservices at mailman.whatever.org the message goes through.  I have tried 
tweaking the listname in the general settings page, and I even deleted 
the list and recreated it.  Both ways produces the same results.  All of 
my other mailists (about 75 of them) appear to work if the first letter 
is capitalized or not. 

Does anyone have any ideas on what is causing this to occur?

Thanks,

Brian


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul  7 05:07:59 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 20:07:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Capital Letter (first letter) Maillist Issue
In-Reply-To: <44ADBFF5.4020006@aiaa.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607062007590406c7be17b1@msapiro>

Brian Oliver wrote:

>Here is my issue.  I have a maillist named 
>itservices at mailman.whatever.org when I post to the list nothing 
>happens.  But when I capitalize the "I" in itservices to 
>Itservices at mailman.whatever.org the message goes through.  I have tried 
>tweaking the listname in the general settings page, and I even deleted 
>the list and recreated it.  Both ways produces the same results.  All of 
>my other mailists (about 75 of them) appear to work if the first letter 
>is capitalized or not. 


What happens to posts to itservices at mailman.whatever.org? Are they
returned as undeliverable? Do they wind up in some local mailbox
instead of being piped to Mailman. Is there anything in Mailman's logs
for these? What's in the MTA's log?

I'm only guessing, but I think this is an MTA issue. Does your MTA use
aliases to deliver to Mailman? Are the aliases for this list
Itservices... and all the others all lower case?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brenno at webspees.nl  Fri Jul  7 11:22:51 2006
From: brenno at webspees.nl (brenno at webspees.nl)
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 11:22:51 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML converted to attachment was:(no subject)
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006070607381501563f450dcb@msapiro>
References: <13059.195.99.66.216.1152194440.squirrel@webmail.webspees.nl>   
	<PC17402006070607381501563f450dcb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <33802.80.126.202.35.1152264171.squirrel@webmail.webspees.nl>

> brenno at webspees.nl wrote:
>>Unfortunately I am encountering problems with sending HTML email to the
mailing lists. Mailman seems to alter the email message and add the
original HTML email as an attachment.
>>I have content filtering switched off and the option 'convert text/html
>> to
>>text/plain' has been switched off as well.
>
> Remove the message header and footer (msg_header and msg_footer on the
admin Non-digest options page. See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp>.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers, San
Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

Unfortunately this didn't help. I already configured in my mm_cfg.py to
remove the footer.

I've added my mm_cfg.py information at the bottom of this email.
Thanks for your help.



Brenno.


=== mm_cfg.py config ===

# -*- python -*-

# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
# modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
# as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
# of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
#
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
# GNU General Public License for more details.
#
# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
# along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
# Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307,
USA.


"""This is the module which takes your site-specific settings.

>From a raw distribution it should be copied to mm_cfg.py.  If you
already have an mm_cfg.py, be careful to add in only the new settings
you want.  The complete set of distributed defaults, with annotation,
are in ./Defaults.  In mm_cfg, override only those you want to
change, after the

  from Defaults import *

line (see below).

Note that these are just default settings - many can be overridden via
the
admin and user interfaces on a per-list or per-user basis.

Note also that some of the settings are resolved against the active list
setting by using the value as a format string against the
list-instance-object's dictionary - see the distributed value of
DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER for an example."""

#######################################################
#    Here's where we get the distributed defaults.    #

from Defaults import *

##############################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific configuration below, in mm_cfg.py . #
# See Defaults.py for explanations of the values.            #

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# The name of the list Mailman uses to send password reminders
# and similar. Don't change if you want mailman-owner to be
# a valid local part.
MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# If you change these, you have to configure your http server
# accordingly (Alias and ScriptAlias directives in most httpds)
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/generic/debuf9/cgi-bin/mailman/'
PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/cgi-bin/mailman/private'
IMAGE_LOGOS         = '/images/mailman/'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Default domain for email addresses of newly created MLs
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.eu.bt.net'
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Default host for web interface of newly created MLs
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'ncca-intra.eu.bt.net'
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Required when setting any of its arguments.
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# The default language for this server.
DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Iirc this was used in pre 2.1, leave it for now
USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER    = 0              # Still used?

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Unset send_reminders on newly created lists
DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = 1

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment this if you configured your MTA such that it
# automatically recognizes newly created lists.
# (see /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.{EXIM,...})
# MTA=None   # Misnomer, suppresses alias output on newlist

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment if you use Postfix virtual domains, but be sure to
# read /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.POSTFIX first.
# MTA='Postfix'

# Note - if you're looking for something that is imported from mm_cfg,
but you
# didn't find it above, it's probably in
/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py.

#
# Custom archiving settings
#

DEFAULT_ARCHIVE = On
DEFAULT_ARCHIVE_PRIVATE = 1
ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 0
DEFAULT_ARCHIVE_VOLUME_FREQUENCY = 4
ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER = 3

#
# Custom delivery settings
#

#
# Custom general settings
#

USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = Yes

ADMIN_CATEGORIES = [
    # First column
    'general', 'passwords', 'language', 'members',
    # Second column
    'privacy', 'archive',
    ]


#
# Custom list settings
#

DEFAULT_LIST_ADVERTISED = No
DEFAULT_MAX_NUM_RECIPIENTS = 1000
DEFAULT_MAX_MESSAGE_SIZE = 10000000           # KB

DEFAULT_MSG_HEADER = " "
DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER = """ """

DEFAULT_ADMIN_NOTIFY_MCHANGES = Yes
DEFAULT_DEFAULT_MEMBER_MODERATION = No
DEFAULT_GENERIC_NONMEMBER_ACTION = 0
DEFAULT_REQUIRE_EXPLICIT_DESTINATION = No
DEFAULT_PRIVATE_ROSTER = 2
DEFAULT_OBSCURE_ADDRESSES = No
ALLOW_RFC2369_OVERRIDES = No
DEFAULT_FILTER_CONTENT = No
DEFAULT_CONVERT_HTML_TO_PLAINTEXT = No
DEFAULT_FILTER_ACTION = 3

DEFAULT_PASS_MIME_TYPES = ['multipart/mixed',
                           'multipart/alternative',
                           'text/html',
                           'text/plain']

#
# Custom digestification defaults
#

DEFAULT_DIGESTABLE = No

#
# Custom time limits
#

PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE = days(10)






From ldb at freestandards.org  Fri Jul  7 12:37:25 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 06:37:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weird mailing list issues
Message-ID: <44AE3965.6020209@freestandards.org>

I have a mailing list that will not accept a specific
HTML message from a subscribing user. It will accept
other messages but not this particular. I tested the
message against a test list and the message posted just
fine. So, I can probably conclude that there is
something wrong with that particular list.

Is that correct?

Any ideas? Will rebuilding the archives help?

Thanks,

LDB



From michael at acrobat-technology.com  Fri Jul  7 13:23:59 2006
From: michael at acrobat-technology.com (Michael Barnard)
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 12:23:59 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments Typ x-zip-compressed being converted to
	bin
Message-ID: <002f01c6a1b7$d808cba0$0a00a8c0@Michael>

Hi All


We are using Mailman 2.1.5 on RaQ550 Kernel 2.4.19C12_V-1.

When we mail the list with an attached zip file the extension is changed to bin in the list archive.
The list members receive a zip file with the correct extension.

Is there a fix for this.

Thanks in advance


Michael Barnard
michael at acrobat-technology.com


From anne.ramey at ncmail.net  Fri Jul  7 14:09:32 2006
From: anne.ramey at ncmail.net (Anne Ramey)
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 08:09:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML converted to attachment
Message-ID: <44AE4EFC.8050904@ncmail.net>


> > brenno at webspees.nl wrote:
>   
>> >>Unfortunately I am encountering problems with sending HTML email to the
>>     
mailing lists. Mailman seems to alter the email message and add the
original HTML email as an attachment.

>> >>I have content filtering switched off and the option 'convert text/html
>> >> to
>> >>text/plain' has been switched off as well.
>>     
> >
> > Remove the message header and footer (msg_header and msg_footer on the
>   
admin Non-digest options page. See

> > <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp>.
> >
> > --
> > Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers, San
>   
Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

> >
>   

Unfortunately this didn't help. I already configured in my mm_cfg.py to
remove the footer.

I've added my mm_cfg.py information at the bottom of this email.
Thanks for your help.



Brenno.

I've had this problem before.  It was because some email clients actually send the html as an attachment.  They appear usually, as inline, because of how most mail clients are set up, but mailman treats it like the attachment it is. Outlook does this, or at least it used to (I haven't tried lately).  I've used Thunderbird successfully.  There are also tools out there that create html mails correctly specifically for sending to lists.

-- 
Anne Ramey




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul  7 19:04:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:04:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML converted to attachment was:(no subject)
In-Reply-To: <33802.80.126.202.35.1152264171.squirrel@webmail.webspees.nl>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607071004560187e3c27553@msapiro>

brenno at webspees.nl wrote:
>
>Unfortunately this didn't help. I already configured in my mm_cfg.py to
>remove the footer.
>
>I've added my mm_cfg.py information at the bottom of this email.
>Thanks for your help.


<snip>
>DEFAULT_MSG_HEADER = " "
>DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER = """ """


Two things here. These only set defaults. The actual list msg_header
and msg_footer are on the Non-digest options page in the admin
interface for the list.

More importantly, those settings specify a header and a footer
consisting of a single blank space. This is very different from no
header or footer. If you don't want Mailman to add anything to the
message and thus, potentially alter the MIME structure of the message,
the header and footer must be the null string. I.e.,

DEFAULT_MSG_HEADER = ""
DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER = ""

Then go the the Non-digest options page and select and delete all text
including stray white space in msg_header and msg_footer and 'Submit
Your Changes'.

I promise that if Content filtering->filter_content is No and if the
Non-digest options, msg_header and msg_footer are truely empty with no
white space and Non-digest options->scrub_nondigest is No, Mailman
will not change the MIME structure of the non-digest messages it sends.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul  7 19:12:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:12:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weird mailing list issues
In-Reply-To: <44AE3965.6020209@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607071012330093e3c274de@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:

>I have a mailing list that will not accept a specific
>HTML message from a subscribing user. It will accept
>other messages but not this particular. I tested the
>message against a test list and the message posted just
>fine. So, I can probably conclude that there is
>something wrong with that particular list.
>
>Is that correct?


I'm not sure without seeing the actual message as sent by the poster
and the list settings.

What happens to the post? If it is held, what is the reason? What is in
Mailman's 'vette' log for this post?


>Any ideas? Will rebuilding the archives help?


Rebuilding the archives will not help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul  7 20:20:49 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 11:20:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachments Typ x-zip-compressed being
	converted tobin
In-Reply-To: <002f01c6a1b7$d808cba0$0a00a8c0@Michael>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607071120490046dc54395f@msapiro>

Michael Barnard wrote:
>
>We are using Mailman 2.1.5 on RaQ550 Kernel 2.4.19C12_V-1.
>
>When we mail the list with an attached zip file the extension is changed to bin in the list archive.
>The list members receive a zip file with the correct extension.


In Mailman 2.1.5, if the attachment has a filename with an extension
and if the extension is one of the extensions that maps to the
Content-Type: according to the maps in your particular Python version,
the filename extension is used. Otherwise, the extension is 'guessed'
from the Content-Type. This should result in an extension of '.zip'
for a content type of 'application/x-zip-compressed', but it may not
depending on your Python version.

In Mailman 2.1.6, a new mm_cfg.py setting
SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION was added to force using
the filename extension if any.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ricardo at tdwg.org  Fri Jul  7 21:04:42 2006
From: ricardo at tdwg.org (Ricardo Scachetti Pereira)
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 16:04:42 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving mailman to a new box
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00607060927n6e4d305cnedeee33454667810@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b7f636a60607051122m3413cbe7yc11bd38c2a377f66@mail.gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00607060927n6e4d305cnedeee33454667810@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44AEB04A.4010401@tdwg.org>

    James,

    Mark Sapiro posted a very useful set of instructions about moving 
mailman lists around. The message is at:

http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg39615.html

    Here's the important part:

"... Moving lists from one installation to another is generally fairly simple. A rough outline is

1) move the lists/listname/config.pck file.
2a) move the archives/private/listname/ directory
2b) move the archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file
3) run fix_url on the list (bin/withlist -l -r fix_url listname)
4) If desired because of absolute URLs on some archive pages or other
reasons, rebuild archives with bin/arch --wipe listname

If you are going to do step 4), you can skip step 2a)"

    I hope this helps.

    Regards,

Ricardo


Patrick Bogen wrote:
> On 7/5/06, james edwards <lists.james.edwards at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> I am moving our mailman server to a new box. On the old box I was running
>> mailman-2.1.5.32.FC3 and on the new box mailman-2.1.5.1-34rhel4.3.
>> What dirs and files do I need to copy over from the old to the new box
>> to make mailman work ?
>>     
>
> FAQ 3.4 <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.004.htp>
> should be helpful in this matter. If you have any questions or issues
> after reading that, feel free to ask.
>
>   



From dandrews at visi.com  Fri Jul  7 21:32:40 2006
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2006 14:32:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Using Old Membership List
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060707142857.02c0a080@visi.com>

I run Mailman 2.1.6 on a sun Cobalt RAQ 550 server.  There are about 
100 lists with memberships ranging from 50 to 350.  On several 
occasions, several of the lists seem to have reverted to using 
membership lists from the past.  People who had unsubscribed as much 
as two years ago, were suddenly subscribed again.

Is this possible?  If so, how does it happen, and how can it be 
prevented?  finally, my UPS has gone bad, and is in the process of 
being replaced, so the server has had some ungraceful shutdowns 
recently.  Would this cause problems with Mailman?

Dave



David Andrews and white cane Harry.




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul  7 23:50:47 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 14:50:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Using Old Membership List
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060707142857.02c0a080@visi.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607071450470078eeb76e9d@msapiro>

David Andrews wrote:

>I run Mailman 2.1.6 on a sun Cobalt RAQ 550 server.  There are about 
>100 lists with memberships ranging from 50 to 350.  On several 
>occasions, several of the lists seem to have reverted to using 
>membership lists from the past.  People who had unsubscribed as much 
>as two years ago, were suddenly subscribed again.


It's hard to imagine how this could happen. Is this a 'stock' Mailman
or do you have a custom member adaptor? If it is a custom member
adaptor, I suppose anything can happen depending on the member adaptor
and it's underlying storage scheme.

If this is a 'stock' mailman, all the membership information is kept in
the lists/<listname>/config.pck file with a one generation backup in
lists/<listname>/config.pck.last, and the config.pck.last is very up
to date representing the list's state just before it was last touched.

One possibliity is if the installation was upgraded from a 2.0.x
installation, there may be old, pre-upgrade config.db files
repersenting the pre-upgrade list settings and membership. If the
config.pck files somehow became unusable, Mailman could fall back to
the config.db which would be way out of date. However, because of the
way that config.pck/config.pck.last are updated/rotated, it's hard to
see how both could become unusable at the same time.

The message here though is that once a list has successfully
upgraded/converted from config.db to config.pck files, the config.db
files should be removed.


>Is this possible?  If so, how does it happen, and how can it be 
>prevented?


See above.


>finally, my UPS has gone bad, and is in the process of 
>being replaced, so the server has had some ungraceful shutdowns 
>recently.  Would this cause problems with Mailman?


Maybe. Losing power during disk i/o can cause all kinds of corruption.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lists.james.edwards at gmail.com  Sat Jul  8 00:43:41 2006
From: lists.james.edwards at gmail.com (james edwards)
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 16:43:41 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving mailman to a new box
In-Reply-To: <44AEB04A.4010401@tdwg.org>
References: <b7f636a60607051122m3413cbe7yc11bd38c2a377f66@mail.gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00607060927n6e4d305cnedeee33454667810@mail.gmail.com>
	<44AEB04A.4010401@tdwg.org>
Message-ID: <b7f636a60607071543q177718ccq31e0fb3a7d7f230f@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/7/06, Ricardo Scachetti Pereira <ricardo at tdwg.org> wrote:
>
>     James,
>
>     Mark Sapiro posted a very useful set of instructions about moving
> mailman lists around. The message is at:




Thanks, everything went well.

james


From md6969 at gmail.com  Sat Jul  8 13:18:43 2006
From: md6969 at gmail.com (Martin Dennett (Gmail))
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 12:18:43 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocking entire domains
Message-ID: <44AF9493.7060407@gmail.com>



Probably in common with most list admins, I get lots of requests to join 
from spam addresses. A lot of these seem to be from the same domain name 
for example joe.bloggs at 123abc.com. How do I add an entry into the banned 
members list which would stop all 123abc.com members joining - in such a 
way that I would never see the request and therefore have to action it?

Rgds

MD




From pdbogen at gmail.com  Sat Jul  8 15:24:46 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 08:24:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocking entire domains
In-Reply-To: <44AF9493.7060407@gmail.com>
References: <44AF9493.7060407@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607080624u8468170v7f944d497719a90@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/8/06, Martin Dennett (Gmail) <md6969 at gmail.com> wrote:
> for example joe.bloggs at 123abc.com. How do I add an entry into the banned
> members list which would stop all 123abc.com members joining - in such a
> way that I would never see the request and therefore have to action it?

Admin Screen > Privacy Options > ban_list

Add:
^.*@123abc.com

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From tmbuff77 at iowatelecom.net  Sat Jul  8 17:47:28 2006
From: tmbuff77 at iowatelecom.net (Troy Buffum)
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 10:47:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocking entire domains
References: <44AF9493.7060407@gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00607080624u8468170v7f944d497719a90@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004a01c6a2a5$d3a7c950$020fa8c0@DCR08M71>

On 7/8/06, Martin Dennett (Gmail) <md6969 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Admin Screen > Privacy Options > ban_list
>
> Add:
> ^.*@123abc.com

I never would have thought of using a wildcard entry for this purpose.  I 
wonder if you could "invite" an entire domain with this command?  Not that 
anyone would be crazy enough to want to, just food for thought.
   Have a great weekend everyone!
   Troy 



From md6969 at gmail.com  Sat Jul  8 18:28:09 2006
From: md6969 at gmail.com (Martin Dennett (Gmail))
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 17:28:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocking entire domains
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00607080624u8468170v7f944d497719a90@mail.gmail.com>
References: <44AF9493.7060407@gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00607080624u8468170v7f944d497719a90@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44AFDD19.3060203@gmail.com>

Patrick Bogen wrote:
> On 7/8/06, Martin Dennett (Gmail) <md6969 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> for example joe.bloggs at 123abc.com. How do I add an entry into the banned
>> members list which would stop all 123abc.com members joining - in such a
>> way that I would never see the request and therefore have to action it?
>
> Admin Screen > Privacy Options > ban_list
>
> Add:
> ^.*@123abc.com
>
Cheers Patrick - I'd previously missed the "*" out ;-)

MD


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jul  8 18:59:47 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 09:59:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocking entire domains
In-Reply-To: <004a01c6a2a5$d3a7c950$020fa8c0@DCR08M71>
Message-ID: <PC17402006070809594701717c49e8da@msapiro>

Troy Buffum wrote:

>On 7/8/06, Martin Dennett (Gmail) <md6969 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Admin Screen > Privacy Options > ban_list
>>
>> Add:
>> ^.*@123abc.com
>
>I never would have thought of using a wildcard entry for this purpose.  I 
>wonder if you could "invite" an entire domain with this command?  Not that 
>anyone would be crazy enough to want to, just food for thought.


The ban_list and all the *_these_nonmembers entries accept regular
expressions (not exactly 'wildcards' see
<http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html> for syntax) as indicated
in the 'details' for these entries.

And no, you can't use a regular expression for an invitation as it
could generate an infinite number of addresses. E.g., the number of
syntactically valid email addresses in a domain is a huge number even
if you limit the length, and there is no way to know which of these
might be in the very small proportion that are valid without sending
mail to all of them.

Even if you limit the local part to no more than 12 characters and
allow only case insensitive letters, digits, dash, underscore and
period, there are over 10^19 combinations. If you could test these for
validity at 1 per microsecond (1,000,000 per second) it would still
take over 300,000 years to test all of them. In fact, it would
probably take that long just to generate them.

Theres no limit to what one can think up with a little 'food' :-)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From md6969 at gmail.com  Sat Jul  8 20:49:19 2006
From: md6969 at gmail.com (Martin Dennett (Gmail))
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 19:49:19 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocking entire domains
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00607080624u8468170v7f944d497719a90@mail.gmail.com>
References: <44AF9493.7060407@gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00607080624u8468170v7f944d497719a90@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44AFFE2F.9010107@gmail.com>

Patrick Bogen wrote:
> On 7/8/06, Martin Dennett (Gmail) <md6969 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> for example joe.bloggs at 123abc.com. How do I add an entry into the banned
>> members list which would stop all 123abc.com members joining - in such a
>> way that I would never see the request and therefore have to action it?
>
> Admin Screen > Privacy Options > ban_list
>
> Add:
> ^.*@123abc.com
Would that also be applicable to, for example, addresses after the @ 
where more than one option exists? I'm thinking of "ms*.hinet.net" - 
I've got a lot of banned members where the "*" is a number, and I don't 
fancy having to block ms1.hinet.net, ms2.hinet.net, ms3.hinet.net etc.

MD



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jul  8 21:05:53 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 12:05:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocking entire domains
In-Reply-To: <44AFFE2F.9010107@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607081205530671d44da154@msapiro>

Martin Dennett (Gmail) wrote:

>Would that also be applicable to, for example, addresses after the @ 
>where more than one option exists? I'm thinking of "ms*.hinet.net" - 
>I've got a lot of banned members where the "*" is a number, and I don't 
>fancy having to block ms1.hinet.net, ms2.hinet.net, ms3.hinet.net etc.


You don't have quite the right syntax for regular expressions (they're
not wildcards). See <http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html>.

The above example can be coded as

^.*@.*\.hinet\.net

The start of the string (^) followed by any character (.) zero or more
times (*) followed by @ followed by zero or more of anything (.*)
followed by a literal . (\.) followed by hinet followed by a literal .
(\.) followed by net followed by anything. This would match
abcxyz at ms3.hinet.net, asdfg at qwe.hinet.net.ca and many others.

It could also be

^[^@]+ at ms[0-9]\.hinet\.net$

The start of the string followed by at at least one (+) non @ character
([^@]) followed by @ms followed by a digit ([0-9]) followed by
.hinet.net followed by the end of the string.

It could also be many other regexps depending on how tight or loose you
want to be.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From md6969 at gmail.com  Sat Jul  8 22:27:31 2006
From: md6969 at gmail.com (Martin Dennett (Gmail))
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2006 21:27:31 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocking entire domains
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607081205530671d44da154@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200607081205530671d44da154@msapiro>
Message-ID: <44B01533.4080402@gmail.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Martin Dennett (Gmail) wrote:
>
>   
>> Would that also be applicable to, for example, addresses after the @ 
>> where more than one option exists? I'm thinking of "ms*.hinet.net" - 
>> I've got a lot of banned members where the "*" is a number, and I don't 
>> fancy having to block ms1.hinet.net, ms2.hinet.net, ms3.hinet.net etc.
>>     
>
>
> You don't have quite the right syntax for regular expressions (they're
> not wildcards). See <http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html>.
>
> The above example can be coded as
>
> ^.*@.*\.hinet\.net
>
> The start of the string (^) followed by any character (.) zero or more
> times (*) followed by @ followed by zero or more of anything (.*)
> followed by a literal . (\.) followed by hinet followed by a literal .
> (\.) followed by net followed by anything. This would match
> abcxyz at ms3.hinet.net, asdfg at qwe.hinet.net.ca and many others.
>
> It could also be
>
> ^[^@]+ at ms[0-9]\.hinet\.net$
>
> The start of the string followed by at at least one (+) non @ character
> ([^@]) followed by @ms followed by a digit ([0-9]) followed by
> .hinet.net followed by the end of the string.
>
> It could also be many other regexps depending on how tight or loose you
> want to be.
*Very* tight - believe me! I've added the syntax as you described it - 
hopefully there'll be less domains trying to request membership now!

MD


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Sun Jul  9 22:51:14 2006
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 08:51:14 +1200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Injecting a global reject into all lists
Message-ID: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A378C0108@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>


Hi All,

I want to ban a particular email address from all lists..

eg

spammer at gmail.com

Is there a CLI command or something to do this?

Regards

Steven


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jul 10 00:13:37 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 15:13:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Injecting a global reject into all lists
In-Reply-To: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A378C0108@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <PC17402006070915133709379d64b56e@msapiro>

Steven Jones wrote:
>
>I want to ban a particular email address from all lists..
>
>eg
>
>spammer at gmail.com


Save the following as bin/add_banned.py

cut here -----------------------------------------------
"""Add an email address or regexp to ban_list for all lists.

Save as bin/add_banned.py

Run via

   bin/withlist -a -r add_banned -- <address_to_ban>

where <address_to_ban> is the actual email address or regexp
to be added to ban_list for all lists.
"""

def add_banned(mlist, address):
    if not mlist.Locked():
        mlist.Lock()
    mlist.ban_list.append(address)
    mlist.Save()
    mlist.Unlock()
cut here -----------------------------------------------

and then run

bin/withlist -a -r add_banned -- spammer at gmail.com

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Mon Jul 10 01:26:42 2006
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 11:26:42 +1200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Injecting a global reject into all lists
Message-ID: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A378C0142@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>


Great thanks....!

:D

Regards

Steven

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Monday, 10 July 2006 10:14 a.m.
To: Steven Jones; Mailman - Users
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Injecting a global reject into all lists

Steven Jones wrote:
>
>I want to ban a particular email address from all lists..
>
>eg
>
>spammer at gmail.com


Save the following as bin/add_banned.py

cut here -----------------------------------------------
"""Add an email address or regexp to ban_list for all lists.

Save as bin/add_banned.py

Run via

   bin/withlist -a -r add_banned -- <address_to_ban>

where <address_to_ban> is the actual email address or regexp
to be added to ban_list for all lists.
"""

def add_banned(mlist, address):
    if not mlist.Locked():
        mlist.Lock()
    mlist.ban_list.append(address)
    mlist.Save()
    mlist.Unlock()
cut here -----------------------------------------------

and then run

bin/withlist -a -r add_banned -- spammer at gmail.com

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ke6isf at chez-vrolet.net  Sun Jul  9 19:27:49 2006
From: ke6isf at chez-vrolet.net (Dennis Carr)
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 10:27:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Altering the URL for admin pages?
Message-ID: <20060709102749.e7712416.ke6isf@chez-vrolet.net>

OK, I have a small number of MLs, here, but there's been a slight
change in URL scheme to the point where http://chez-vrolet.net no
longer resolves correctly (it must now be http://www.chez-vrolet.net).
Problem is, though, on my admin pages, everything still wants to go to
http://chez-vrolet.net/url/to/admin/etc.  Where do I make the change to
this behavior?

-Dennis


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jul 10 02:46:44 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2006 17:46:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Altering the URL for admin pages?
In-Reply-To: <20060709102749.e7712416.ke6isf@chez-vrolet.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607091746440328ff82ceb4@msapiro>

Dennis Carr wrote:

>OK, I have a small number of MLs, here, but there's been a slight
>change in URL scheme to the point where http://chez-vrolet.net no
>longer resolves correctly (it must now be http://www.chez-vrolet.net).
>Problem is, though, on my admin pages, everything still wants to go to
>http://chez-vrolet.net/url/to/admin/etc.  Where do I make the change to
>this behavior?


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp>
and
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.069.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ahmed.shubbar at gmail.com  Mon Jul 10 06:20:31 2006
From: ahmed.shubbar at gmail.com (Ahmed Shubbar)
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 07:20:31 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] arabic translation
Message-ID: <d323d8790607092120j49f8133drf269b22067fd0b08@mail.gmail.com>

I don't see the arabic translation of mailman in new releases, though it is
available as a patch since March.
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1459897&group_id=103&atid=300103

Unfortuntly, I am on shared webhosting and mailman is shared, so my
webhoster will not include this patch just for me. I would like to see this
translation in upcoming releases.


From tmbuff77 at iowatelecom.net  Mon Jul 10 07:23:45 2006
From: tmbuff77 at iowatelecom.net (Troy Buffum)
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 00:23:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] arabic translation
References: <d323d8790607092120j49f8133drf269b22067fd0b08@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <009501c6a3e1$06cb3e70$020fa8c0@DCR08M71>

"Ahmed Shubbar" wrote:

>I don't see the arabic translation of mailman in new releases, though it is
> available as a patch since March.
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1459897&group_id=103&atid=300103
>
> Unfortuntly, I am on shared webhosting and mailman is shared, so my
> webhoster will not include this patch just for me. I would like to see 
> this
> translation in upcoming releases.

Hey guys,
    Well, I know how those shared hosting services can work.  I use one of 
those myself.  There can unfortunately be many problems.  Besides what Ahmed 
mentioned about installing patches, and possible updates that probably 
should happen.  One problem that I've run into, is that I'd like access to 
modify the code, and different configurations that have to be done "across 
the board" so to speak.  But, all we can do is hang in there, and hope that 
we learn enough, and can eventually take on our own servers.  I know that 
I'd like to eventually do that, but don't nearly enough knowledge to know 
what the heck I'm doing.  Nor do I really have the money.  But, at least 
eBay's around for those of us in that predikement. 



From Kucerar at hhmi.org  Mon Jul 10 18:45:48 2006
From: Kucerar at hhmi.org (Kucera, Rich)
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 12:45:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How To Leverage Subversion To Customize Mailman
Message-ID: <0EDA935F3B86D04E8408C7BC487B8C0E017F33A3@hqexch3.hhmi.org>

How To Leverage Subversion To Customize Mailman

 

The key to this is bringing only the customized files in the production
distribution under subversion control. Not the entire distribution as the
Subversion community seems to recommend (this is not possible, it doesn't
work in my experience (mailman)), but only the modified files.

 

This procedure can be viewed in general as a controlled way to customize open
source systems,  and still be able to upgrade.

 

Required sub-procedure (issue, svn will not overwrite for checkout, by
design)

 

   1. checkout to temp

 

   2. tar cvf checkout dir

 

   3. tar xvf checkout over in-production distribution

 

 

Steps of new procedure (test as appropriate between each step):

 

   1. delete current trunk (if any bad attempts so far)

 

   2. import all of prod

 

   3. prune repo down to only mods, not entire installation

 

   4. tag mods current

 

   5. delete test install, put back original test install (bad attempt)

 

   6. check out mods to test

 

   7. move .svn directories out of templates/en (any runtime dirs) because
they confuse upgrade scripts

 

   8. upgrade in-place to mailman 2.1.8

 

   9. commit changes

 

  10. checkout trunk to PC (easier to work there)

 

  11. diff 2.1.7 mods with 2.1.8 files

 

  12. move 2.1.7 into 2.1.8

 

  13. commit new 2.1.8 mods

 

  14. update mods in test

 

  15. delete entire install in test.

 

  16. replace with original 2.1.7 install

 

  17. upgrade in-place to 2.1.8

 

  18. check out 2.1.8 mods to test

 

  19. backup

 

  20. upgrade in-place production to 2.1.8

 

  21. check out 2.1.8 mods to production

 

  22. backup 

 

 

 

-----------------------------------------

Rich Kucera

Senior Web Applications Developer

Howard Hughes Medical Institute 
4000 Jones Bridge Road 
Chevy Chase, MD 20815 
(301) 215-8714

 

 



From Jon.Slater at LPBroadband.Net  Mon Jul 10 19:09:05 2006
From: Jon.Slater at LPBroadband.Net (Jon D. Slater)
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 11:09:05 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trying to tighten up my security...
Message-ID: <01b401c6a443$8d1a1a20$0a01a8c0@UgukuPC>

Hi All,

 

I have two lists one called 'Board at blahblah.com' which is the board of
directors and one called 'Members at blahblah.com'.

 

My Member's list changes frequently.

 

I would like to be able to allow anyone on the 'Members' list to send e-mail
to the 'Board' with out having to add each member to the board list.

 

I found this clue:

> How do I allow subscribers from another list to post in my list without
adding them as members?

> 

>     This particular feature might be useful if you manage multiple lists,
but would like common 

>     senders among them all without needing to update each one when a new
subscriber is added.

> 

>     To do this, log into the list's administrative interface:

> 

>       * Go to Privacy options

>       * Go to Sender filters

>       * Add another list's address into accept_these_listsenders
(including @mailman.ucalgary.ca, one address per line)

>       * Press the Submit Your Changes button when finished 

 

But I don't see 'accept_these_listsenders' on any of my Board at blahblah.com
administrative pages.

 

How do I do this?

 

Stats:

Mailman:  2.1.8

OS: Fedora Core 4 (kernel-2.6.17-1.2141_FC4)

Apache: 2.0

 

Thanks!!!

 

Jon

 

 

 



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jul 10 20:17:09 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 11:17:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trying to tighten up my security...
In-Reply-To: <01b401c6a443$8d1a1a20$0a01a8c0@UgukuPC>
Message-ID: <PC17402006071011170902037d339b74@msapiro>

Jon D. Slater wrote:
>
>I found this clue:


Where?


>> How do I allow subscribers from another list to post in my list without
>adding them as members?
>
>> 
>
>>     This particular feature might be useful if you manage multiple lists,
>but would like common 
>
>>     senders among them all without needing to update each one when a new
>subscriber is added.
>
>> 
>
>>     To do this, log into the list's administrative interface:
>
>> 
>
>>       * Go to Privacy options
>
>>       * Go to Sender filters
>
>>       * Add another list's address into accept_these_listsenders
>(including @mailman.ucalgary.ca, one address per line)
>
>>       * Press the Submit Your Changes button when finished 
>
> 
>
>But I don't see 'accept_these_listsenders' on any of my Board at blahblah.com
>administrative pages.


I think the above is referring to some locally modified Mailman (at
ucalgary.ca ?).

See
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103>
for another way to do this. This patch implements the ability to, in
your case, add @members to the board list's accept_these_nonmembers to
allow any member of the members list to post to the board list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Jon.Slater at LPBroadband.Net  Mon Jul 10 20:21:48 2006
From: Jon.Slater at LPBroadband.Net (Jon D. Slater)
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 12:21:48 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trying to tighten up my security...
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006071011170902037d339b74@msapiro>
Message-ID: <01c201c6a44d$b547b390$0a01a8c0@UgukuPC>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
> Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 12:17 PM
> To: Jon D. Slater; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Trying to tighten up my security...
> 
> Jon D. Slater wrote:
> >
> >I found this clue:
> 
> 
> Where?

Here:
http://www.ucalgary.ca/it/self_help/email/mailman/mailmanfaq.html

at the very bottom


> 
> 
> >> How do I allow subscribers from another list to post in my list without
> >adding them as members?
> >
> >>
> >
> >>     This particular feature might be useful if you manage multiple
> lists,
> >but would like common
> >
> >>     senders among them all without needing to update each one when a
> new
> >subscriber is added.
> >
> >>
> >
> >>     To do this, log into the list's administrative interface:
> >
> >>
> >
> >>       * Go to Privacy options
> >
> >>       * Go to Sender filters
> >
> >>       * Add another list's address into accept_these_listsenders
> >(including @mailman.ucalgary.ca, one address per line)
> >
> >>       * Press the Submit Your Changes button when finished
> >
> >
> >
> >But I don't see 'accept_these_listsenders' on any of my
> Board at blahblah.com
> >administrative pages.
> 
> 
> I think the above is referring to some locally modified Mailman (at
> ucalgary.ca ?).
> 
> See
> <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id
> =103&atid=300103>
> for another way to do this. This patch implements the ability to, in
> your case, add @members to the board list's accept_these_nonmembers to
> allow any member of the members list to post to the board list.
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 
> 
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 7/7/2006




From matt at mail.netera.ca  Mon Jul 10 20:11:10 2006
From: matt at mail.netera.ca (Matthew Clarkson)
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 12:11:10 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trying to tighten up my security...
In-Reply-To: <01b401c6a443$8d1a1a20$0a01a8c0@UgukuPC>
References: <01b401c6a443$8d1a1a20$0a01a8c0@UgukuPC>
Message-ID: <056BB055-1DBB-4F06-A003-92E5E7E1E0BE@mail.netera.ca>

On Jul 10, 2006, at 11:09 AM, Jon D. Slater wrote:


>
> I would like to be able to allow anyone on the 'Members' list to  
> send e-mail
> to the 'Board' with out having to add each member to the board list.
>
>

Hi Jon, I don't believe there is a straight forward way to do this  
(maybe someone can correct me though).
One way I can think of for doing this is creating a script, which  
would run as a cronjob to add any members in your Members list to the  
accept_these_nonmembers field of your Board list, this would however  
have to be done through the wishlist command.
I have an announce script, which could be modified to do this fairly  
easily to do what you wish located at http://www.netera.ca/ 
mailinglists/MakeAnnounce.sh, also you will have to get http:// 
www.netera.ca/mailinglists/changemod.py to run it.

Let me know if you need a hand with modifying it if you would like to  
go this route, it shouldn't be too difficult.

--
Matthew Clarkson
Netera Alliance.

>
> I found this clue:
>
>> How do I allow subscribers from another list to post in my list  
>> without
> adding them as members?
>
>>
>
>>     This particular feature might be useful if you manage multiple  
>> lists,
> but would like common
>
>>     senders among them all without needing to update each one when  
>> a new
> subscriber is added.
>
>>
>
>>     To do this, log into the list's administrative interface:
>
>>
>
>>       * Go to Privacy options
>
>>       * Go to Sender filters
>
>>       * Add another list's address into accept_these_listsenders
> (including @mailman.ucalgary.ca, one address per line)
>
>>       * Press the Submit Your Changes button when finished
>
>
>
> But I don't see 'accept_these_listsenders' on any of my  
> Board at blahblah.com
> administrative pages.
>
>
>
> How do I do this?
>
>
>
> Stats:
>
> Mailman:  2.1.8
>
> OS: Fedora Core 4 (kernel-2.6.17-1.2141_FC4)
>
> Apache: 2.0
>
>
>
> Thanks!!!
>
>
>
> Jon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users% 
> 40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ 
> matt%40mail.netera.ca
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
> req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From fabiano.breves at gmail.com  Mon Jul 10 22:32:47 2006
From: fabiano.breves at gmail.com (Fabiano Breves)
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:32:47 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange problem with password.
Message-ID: <1c22506e0607101332r47e39491x3c063b5d71c88a27@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

This problem came out of nowhere. Everything was just fine till today. I
have a large announce-only list and use the 'Approved: password on the first
line' method to securely send messages to the list. As I said it was working
just fine, but today, the user responsable of sending the announces (and I),
had a surprise - the password was revealed troughout the list. I changed the
password, no ane had the time to use it to spam into the list (thank God).

I have a test list with just a few internal users, and tried to replicate
the problem without much success.

The user is sending the message from an Outlook Express client in Rich Text
format (HTML). This seemed not to be a problem till now.

As I couldn't replicate the problem within the test list I'm afraid that the
password will be revealed again.

I checked the source code of the messages and noticed there are two texts,
one in plain text format (without the password) and one in HTML format (with
the password).

If do not use the password the message can't be send. Did anyone have a
similar problem ?? Does anyone knows a better way to securely send
announce-only messages ??

thanks for your help.



-- 
Fabiano de Carvalho Breves
fabiano.breves at gmail.com


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jul 10 23:12:26 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 14:12:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange problem with password.
In-Reply-To: <1c22506e0607101332r47e39491x3c063b5d71c88a27@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060710141226009365969b97@msapiro>

Fabiano Breves wrote:
>
>This problem came out of nowhere. Everything was just fine till today. I
>have a large announce-only list and use the 'Approved: password on the first
>line' method to securely send messages to the list. As I said it was working
>just fine, but today, the user responsable of sending the announces (and I),
>had a surprise - the password was revealed troughout the list. I changed the
>password, no ane had the time to use it to spam into the list (thank God).
>
>I have a test list with just a few internal users, and tried to replicate
>the problem without much success.
>
>The user is sending the message from an Outlook Express client in Rich Text
>format (HTML). This seemed not to be a problem till now.


This is definitely a problem and always has been. See below. If your
Mailman is 2.1.7 or later, it should be OK, but maybe the poster
upgraded OE or something that changed the message format.


>As I couldn't replicate the problem within the test list I'm afraid that the
>password will be revealed again.
>
>I checked the source code of the messages and noticed there are two texts,
>one in plain text format (without the password) and one in HTML format (with
>the password).



This indicates either one of two things.

If you are using a Mailman version prior to 2.1.7, this has always been
the case. The Approved: line is only found in and removed from the
first text/plain part of the message.

If you are using Mailman 2.1.7 or later, we still look for the
Approved: line in the first text/plain part in the message, but if we
find it, we attempt to remove it from all text parts. This may have
failed. If so, please send me (off list) a copy of the message (as an
attachment so I see it exactly with all headers and MIME structure).
Ideally, in this case, I would like to see the post as received by
Mailman, but if this isn't available, the post from the list will do.


>If do not use the password the message can't be send. Did anyone have a
>similar problem ?? Does anyone knows a better way to securely send
>announce-only messages ??


Provide the Approved: line as an actual message header rather than as
the first body line, but that's probably not possible with Outlook
Express. Next best is to post plain text only without any HTML parts.
In this case if the Approved: line isn't found and removed, the post
won't go to the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mardin at comcast.net  Tue Jul 11 01:15:18 2006
From: mardin at comcast.net (mardin at comcast.net)
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 23:15:18 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving mailman
Message-ID: <071020062315.13270.44B2DF8600006707000033D6220588617202070B9D0E03@comcast.net>

Hi,

The Mailman 2.1.5 was running well. We wanted to move it to another computer with more powerfull hardware. We installed the same Linux system on the new computer.
  
Then we moved all Mailman related data from the original computer to the new computer:
/usr/local/mailman
/home/mailman
/etc/passwd
/etc/group
/etc/httpd
/etc/init.d/mailman
/etc/mail
/etc/aliases

We powered off the original computer and renamed the new computer with the original hostname and IP address. After that we restarted mailman on the new computer and got the master qrunner lock errors::
# su - mailman
$ cd /usr/local/mailman
$ bin/mailmanctl start
The master qrunner lock could not be acquired. It appears as though there is a stale master qrunner lock. Try re-running mailmanctl with the -s flag.

We re-run mailmanctl with the -s flag without errors: 
$ bin/mailmanctl -s start

then restart mailman again:
$ bin/mailmanctl -s -q start

The maiman daeman were up but both mailman and http://hostname/mailman/admin/ didn't work. Does anyone know how to resolve it?

questions: Is the above moving method correct or not? Did we forget something else? Is there a better way to move mailman without re-compile it to another same hostname, IP address, and same OS system machine?

Thanks for your help!
Mardin


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jul 11 01:35:13 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 16:35:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving mailman
In-Reply-To: <071020062315.13270.44B2DF8600006707000033D6220588617202070B9D0E03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607101635130937caeeae56@msapiro>

mardin at comcast.net wrote:
>
>The Mailman 2.1.5 was running well. We wanted to move it to another computer with more powerfull hardware. We installed the same Linux system on the new computer.
>  
>Then we moved all Mailman related data from the original computer to the new computer:
>/usr/local/mailman
>/home/mailman
>/etc/passwd
>/etc/group
>/etc/httpd
>/etc/init.d/mailman
>/etc/mail
>/etc/aliases
>
>We powered off the original computer and renamed the new computer with the original hostname and IP address. After that we restarted mailman on the new computer and got the master qrunner lock errors::
># su - mailman
>$ cd /usr/local/mailman
>$ bin/mailmanctl start
>The master qrunner lock could not be acquired. It appears as though there is a stale master qrunner lock. Try re-running mailmanctl with the -s flag.


Because you moved /usr/local/mailman while Mailman was running on the
old system so you moved the lock files.


>We re-run mailmanctl with the -s flag without errors: 
>$ bin/mailmanctl -s start


OK


>then restart mailman again:
>$ bin/mailmanctl -s -q start


Unless you stopped Mailman in between, you now have two masters and
sets of qrunners running. This is bad. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.068.htp>
and stop all the Mailman processes as described there and then do
'bin/mailmanctl start' just once.


>The maiman daeman were up but both mailman and http://hostname/mailman/admin/ didn't work. Does anyone know how to resolve it?


Didn't work how? What happens when you post to a list? What happens
when you go to that URL?


>questions: Is the above moving method correct or not? Did we forget something else? Is there a better way to move mailman without re-compile it to another same hostname, IP address, and same OS system machine?


I would stop the MTA, web server, Mailman and all other services on the
source machine before moving the directories and files, but I would
prefer to actually install and test all the software on the new box
and then just move the list and archive data for Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brenno at webspees.nl  Tue Jul 11 12:22:52 2006
From: brenno at webspees.nl (brenno at webspees.nl)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:22:52 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML converted to attachment was:(no subject)
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607071004560187e3c27553@msapiro>
References: <33802.80.126.202.35.1152264171.squirrel@webmail.webspees.nl>
	<PC1740200607071004560187e3c27553@msapiro>
Message-ID: <47507.195.99.66.216.1152613372.squirrel@webmail.webspees.nl>

Mark,

Your assumptions about the footers/headers are correct. After I removed
the white space everything started working.

Many thanks,



Brenno

>>DEFAULT_MSG_HEADER = " "
>>DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER = """ """
>
>
> Two things here. These only set defaults. The actual list msg_header
> and msg_footer are on the Non-digest options page in the admin
> interface for the list.
>
> More importantly, those settings specify a header and a footer
> consisting of a single blank space. This is very different from no
> header or footer. If you don't want Mailman to add anything to the
> message and thus, potentially alter the MIME structure of the message,
> the header and footer must be the null string. I.e.,
>
> DEFAULT_MSG_HEADER = ""
> DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER = ""
>
> Then go the the Non-digest options page and select and delete all text
> including stray white space in msg_header and msg_footer and 'Submit
> Your Changes'.
>
> I promise that if Content filtering->filter_content is No and if the
> Non-digest options, msg_header and msg_footer are truely empty with no
> white space and Non-digest options->scrub_nondigest is No, Mailman
> will not change the MIME structure of the non-digest messages it sends.





From dcarvalho at xsmail.com  Tue Jul 11 14:23:28 2006
From: dcarvalho at xsmail.com (Daniel Carvalho)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:23:28 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error messages in the archive
Message-ID: <1152620609.15781.265760571@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Our SMTP server has a limitation in the number of messages it can send
per hour, so it started to reject messages, and the Mailman server
interpreted then as bounces. Until now, everything normal. 

What seem strange is that some error messages appeared in the mailing
list archive page.

These lines were taken from the "archive by date" page:

# [CA-info] Status   The Post Office
# [CA-info] Returned mail: Data format error   Mail Delivery Subsystem
# [CA-info] Mail System Error - Returned Mail   Automatic Email Delivery
Software

The archive is supposed to show the messages that were send to the list.
This means that all subscribers receibed these error message? Or mailman
get confused and put these message in the archive?

This is the content of one of the messages that were in the archive:


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
The original message was received at Tue, 6 Jun 2006 12:52:32 +0100
from meusite.pt [180.66.14.200]
----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<lista-info at meusite.pt>
----- Transcript of session follows -----
  while talking to meusite.pt.:
>>> MAIL From:"The Post Office" <postmaster at meusite.pt>
<<< 501 "The Post Office" <postmaster at meusite.pt>... Refused

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: message.zip
Type: application/octet-stream
Size: 22140 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


These is the second message:


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Message could not be delivered
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: message.zip
Type: application/octet-stream
Size: 22416 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>




From henmarrina at gmail.com  Tue Jul 11 15:46:15 2006
From: henmarrina at gmail.com (henmar rina)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:16:15 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] group creation
Message-ID: <63a9a5880607110646w3c5d4024p23d2b7e1365d53cb@mail.gmail.com>

can we use mailman to create group mailinglist like yahoo and google or
Is there is any site already done this feature.


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jul 11 16:21:25 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 09:21:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] group creation
In-Reply-To: <63a9a5880607110646w3c5d4024p23d2b7e1365d53cb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <63a9a5880607110646w3c5d4024p23d2b7e1365d53cb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607110721s251bf2aaxb7c1340d13d4b3ff@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/11/06, henmar rina <henmarrina at gmail.com> wrote:
> can we use mailman to create group mailinglist like yahoo and google or
Yes. However, the normal use case with mailman is that you run your
own server to handle this.

> Is there is any site already done this feature.
 I don't know of any public mailman installations (it seems like a
Really Bad Idea), but someone else might be able to point you in the
right direction.


-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From mdbiker at goldray.com  Tue Jul 11 16:52:06 2006
From: mdbiker at goldray.com (Harold Goldstein)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:52:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spams directed to list owner.
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00606141606j4383e2aeq34a8f557a9275aa5@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <6.1.2.0.0.20060614171720.02970b10@mail.goldray.com>
	<6fbe3da00606141606j4383e2aeq34a8f557a9275aa5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20060711104743.0291f110@mail.goldray.com>

here is the header of a spam received this morning by 2 of us listed as 
pptc-announce-owner ...
it is not being directed to the list itself.
i shouldmention that a month ago the list was spammed before i marked to 
discard unauthorized posts

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
X-From_: mailman-bounces at phred.org  Tue Jul 11 09:27:32 2006
X-Envelope-From: mailman-bounces at phred.org
Delivered-To: pptc-announce-owner at bikelist.org
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 09:27:25 -0540
From: "Jeffrey Lyon" <JeffreyLyon at 09.com>
X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.00.5) Educational
Reply-To: "Jeffrey Lyon" <JeffreyLyon at 09.com>
To: pptc-announce-owner at bikelist.org
Subject: BHT
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 11 Jul 2006 09:23:33.0046 (UTC)
         FILETIME=[ADF4DD60:01C6A4CB]
Sender: mailman-bounces at phred.org ?
---------------------------------------------------------


                                                               harold ...
------------------------------------------------------------
  Harold Goldstein - mdbiker at goldray.com ~~,__o   ~^^
  Goldray Consulting:  http://goldray.com/ ~_-\  < ,   ~  o \
  Web Development/Internet Training         (*)/ (*)  ~  / {   \
  Save The Apes: http://bushmeat.net/                     /   { o}
amber for everyone - http://amberlady.com - fossil bugs too  

From richardgruver at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 11 17:30:41 2006
From: richardgruver at hotmail.com (Richard Gruver)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 08:30:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Authorization Failed
Message-ID: <BAY103-DAV664B724C972051FBD1049A9680@phx.gbl>

I tried a bunch of times to logon to my Classmates Administrator
Authentication page, but I entered the wrong password every time.  I then
found the password in an old email, but that didn't work either.  Is it
locking me out due to too many attempts, and if so, how long before I can
try again?

 

-Richard Gruver



From georg.koch at cochrane.de  Tue Jul 11 17:57:49 2006
From: georg.koch at cochrane.de (Georg Koch)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:57:49 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] split Yahoo DomainKey-Signature problem
Message-ID: <44B3CA7D.5080906@imbi.uni-freiburg.de>

Hi mailman-users,

Messages from members @yahoo arrive here with a split
DomainKey-Signature header, like this:

"DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
  s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk;


h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding;


b=Uc/ihJik20W+F4B1kI03/P7ZnZPQ3vrXKZfXUuiBydSKcRvO3PmKbR1kuGo1cwT2adlDeX+fFtw89MyS4NRRhtTkHHO1b2aLePh48p1FStbOycsrHfOdnoQ7M2d7EJyrdtZ2Kks9LmX8UQO+yVqVXYSTCFPoGh6lTHbDrNaceWs=
    ;
"

Since an empty line divides header from body, other list subscribers see
an email starting with the second line and all remaining headers
(apparently no sender and no subject), and attachments are shown
encoded, since the boundary-definition header field is below the
DomainKey-Signature. If I manually delete these empty lines from the
mbox file and rearchive, everything looks fine.

What can I do to get rid of these empty lines before the messages are
sent out?

(I couldn't find it in the list-archives nor in the faq).
This pertains to Debian-Sarge, mailman 2.1.5-8sarge2 (and postfix
2.1.5-9, if that matters).

Thanks
    Georg

-- 
Georg Koch (mailto:koch at imbi.uni-freiburg.de)| Phone: +49 761 203 6710
German Cochrane Centre                       | Fax:   +49 761 203 6712
Mail: Institute of Medical Biometry and Medical Informatics
      Stefan-Meier-Strasse 26, D-79104 Freiburg, Germany






From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jul 11 18:28:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 09:28:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error messages in the archive
In-Reply-To: <1152620609.15781.265760571@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607110928500062dcd6d450@msapiro>

Daniel Carvalho wrote:

>Our SMTP server has a limitation in the number of messages it can send
>per hour, so it started to reject messages, and the Mailman server
>interpreted then as bounces. Until now, everything normal. 
>
>What seem strange is that some error messages appeared in the mailing
>list archive page.
>
>These lines were taken from the "archive by date" page:
>
># [CA-info] Status   The Post Office
># [CA-info] Returned mail: Data format error   Mail Delivery Subsystem
># [CA-info] Mail System Error - Returned Mail   Automatic Email Delivery
>Software
>
>The archive is supposed to show the messages that were send to the list.
>This means that all subscribers receibed these error message? Or mailman
>get confused and put these message in the archive?


It appears that there are two different issues. The messages in your
archive are not the kind of bounce messages that you would see from an
SMTP "number of messages" limitation, so what I think is happening is
that some non-compliant MTA at the intended recipient's end is
returning a bounce to the address in some header which happens to be
the list posting address rather than returning the bounce to the
envelope sender which is the list-bounces address.

Then your list is accepting these messages and they are archived and
sent to the list.

There is another possibility. The intended recipient in the first
archived bounce message is <lista-info at meusite.pt>. This seems an
unlikely address to be a list member, so maybe what is happening is
some spammer sent out a bunch of spam which spoofed your list as the
sender, and the bounces are being returned to your list, and your list
is accepting them.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jul 11 18:34:51 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 09:34:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] group creation
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00607110721s251bf2aaxb7c1340d13d4b3ff@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060711093451026592a2837c@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>On 7/11/06, henmar rina <henmarrina at gmail.com> wrote:
>> can we use mailman to create group mailinglist like yahoo and google or

>Yes. However, the normal use case with mailman is that you run your
>own server to handle this.


Also see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.026.htp>.


>> Is there is any site already done this feature.

> I don't know of any public mailman installations (it seems like a
>Really Bad Idea), but someone else might be able to point you in the
>right direction.


I don't know of any "free, public maillist service" a la Yahoo or
Google that uses Mailman, but see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.017.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jul 11 18:46:09 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 09:46:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spams directed to list owner.
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20060711104743.0291f110@mail.goldray.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060711094609032849f349b1@msapiro>

Harold Goldstein wrote:

>here is the header of a spam received this morning by 2 of us listed as 
>pptc-announce-owner ...
>it is not being directed to the list itself.
>i shouldmention that a month ago the list was spammed before i marked to 
>discard unauthorized posts


Is there a question here, or is this perhaps an off-list thread that
sudddenly bacame public?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jul 11 18:49:37 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:49:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spams directed to list owner.
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060711094609032849f349b1@msapiro>
References: <6.1.2.0.0.20060711104743.0291f110@mail.goldray.com>
	<PC174020060711094609032849f349b1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607110949q5f434459r2460ba1302322d31@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/11/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Is there a question here, or is this perhaps an off-list thread that
> sudddenly bacame public?

Not my doing, this time. It's as new to me as it is to you.

I think Harold is asking why the spam was directed to
pptc-announce-owner. From the headers (I may or may not be
interpreting correctly), it looks like the message was directly
addressed to pptc-announce-owner.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jul 11 19:12:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:12:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] split Yahoo DomainKey-Signature problem
In-Reply-To: <44B3CA7D.5080906@imbi.uni-freiburg.de>
Message-ID: <PC174020060711101250062572e7f0c3@msapiro>

Georg Koch wrote:
>
>Messages from members @yahoo arrive here with a split
>DomainKey-Signature header, like this:
>
>"DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
>  s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk;
>
>
>h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding;
>
>
>b=Uc/ihJik20W+F4B1kI03/P7ZnZPQ3vrXKZfXUuiBydSKcRvO3PmKbR1kuGo1cwT2adlDeX+fFtw89MyS4NRRhtTkHHO1b2aLePh48p1FStbOycsrHfOdnoQ7M2d7EJyrdtZ2Kks9LmX8UQO+yVqVXYSTCFPoGh6lTHbDrNaceWs=
>    ;


Are you sure? I think what you are seeing is an artifact of long line
wrapping by whatever you are using to look at this. Based on messages
I receive from Yahoo, I think the above is actually sent by Yahoo as


DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
  s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk;
  h=Message-ID:Received: <middle snipped> Content-Transfer-Encoding;
  b=Uc/ihJik20W <middle snipped> THbDrNaceWs=


IE the header content begins with a=, q=, c= and continues with s= and
d= and continues again with h= and finally with b=

What you are seeing is the long line that begins with two spaces and h=
is wrapped into a line of two spaces followed by the line that begins
h=, and similarly for the line that begins with two spaces and b=.



>Since an empty line divides header from body, other list subscribers see
>an email starting with the second line and all remaining headers
>(apparently no sender and no subject), and attachments are shown
>encoded, since the boundary-definition header field is below the
>DomainKey-Signature. If I manually delete these empty lines from the
>mbox file and rearchive, everything looks fine.
>
>What can I do to get rid of these empty lines before the messages are
>sent out?

Beginning with 2.1.7, Mailman removes the DomainKey-Signature and
DKIM-Signature headers from posts, but if you are actually seeing
empty lines in posts and the archive .mbox files that stop the headers
at that point, then I think something must be munging the message
before it gets to Mailman. I could be mistaken, but I don't think
Mailman itself, even 2.1.5, will do this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From fabiano.breves at gmail.com  Tue Jul 11 19:23:31 2006
From: fabiano.breves at gmail.com (Fabiano Breves)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:23:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange problem with password.
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060710141226009365969b97@msapiro>
References: <1c22506e0607101332r47e39491x3c063b5d71c88a27@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC174020060710141226009365969b97@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1c22506e0607111023h5d3a21c6uc281daa35d62d79a@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/10/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Fabiano Breves wrote:
> >
> >This problem came out of nowhere. Everything was just fine till today. I
> >have a large announce-only list and use the 'Approved: password on the
> first
> >line' method to securely send messages to the list. As I said it was
> working
> >just fine, but today, the user responsable of sending the announces (and
> I),
> >had a surprise - the password was revealed troughout the list. I changed
> the
> >password, no ane had the time to use it to spam into the list (thank
> God).
> >
> >I have a test list with just a few internal users, and tried to replicate
> >the problem without much success.
> >
> >The user is sending the message from an Outlook Express client in Rich
> Text
> >format (HTML). This seemed not to be a problem till now.
>
>
> This is definitely a problem and always has been. See below. If your
> Mailman is 2.1.7 or later, it should be OK, but maybe the poster
> upgraded OE or something that changed the message format.


Sorry I did not told what version (2.1.8rc1) we are using. After a little
more digging I tihink the problem is the Outlook Express but I need more
time to be sure and I'm not in the office right now.



> >As I couldn't replicate the problem within the test list I'm afraid that
> the
> >password will be revealed again.
> >
> >I checked the source code of the messages and noticed there are two
> texts,
> >one in plain text format (without the password) and one in HTML format
> (with
> >the password).
>
>
>
> This indicates either one of two things.
>
> If you are using a Mailman version prior to 2.1.7, this has always been
> the case. The Approved: line is only found in and removed from the
> first text/plain part of the message.


As I'm in 2.1.8rc1 I think we don't need to worry about this firt one.



> If you are using Mailman 2.1.7 or later, we still look for the
> Approved: line in the first text/plain part in the message, but if we
> find it, we attempt to remove it from all text parts. This may have
> failed. If so, please send me (off list) a copy of the message (as an
> attachment so I see it exactly with all headers and MIME structure).
> Ideally, in this case, I would like to see the post as received by
> Mailman, but if this isn't available, the post from the list will do.


As soon I get to the office (probably tomorrow) I'll send to your e-mail the
message.



> >If do not use the password the message can't be send. Did anyone have a
> >similar problem ?? Does anyone knows a better way to securely send
> >announce-only messages ??
>
>
> Provide the Approved: line as an actual message header rather than as
> the first body line, but that's probably not possible with Outlook
> Express. Next best is to post plain text only without any HTML parts.
> In this case if the Approved: line isn't found and removed, the post
> won't go to the list.


We have a web application that can send mail to lists. Maybe I can change
the way the poster sends the announce message. The aplication is based on
ASP language. What header should I use and how I use it. Send msgs with this
method seems to be the solution because I can take out the responsability of
putting the password of the poster.

Thanks for your help.


> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


-- 
Fabiano de Carvalho Breves
fabiano.breves at gmail.com


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jul 11 19:27:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:27:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spams directed to list owner.
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00607110949q5f434459r2460ba1302322d31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006071110275002340761809c@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
>I think Harold is asking why the spam was directed to
>pptc-announce-owner. From the headers (I may or may not be
>interpreting correctly), it looks like the message was directly
>addressed to pptc-announce-owner.


Yes. The spam was sent From: "Jeffrey Lyon" <JeffreyLyon at 09.com>
(probably spoofed) and To: pptc-announce-owner at bikelist.org and then
resent by Mailman to the actual owner/moderator addresses. This is
exactly what Mailman is supposed to do with mail sent to the -owner
address.

If the question is "why was spam sent to pptc-announce-owner" or "how
did spammers get the pptc-announce-owner address", the address is in a
mailto: link at the bottom of
<http://www.bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo/pptc-announce>. There are
probably other ways that it can be found or guessed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jul 11 19:44:31 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:44:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange problem with password.
In-Reply-To: <1c22506e0607111023h5d3a21c6uc281daa35d62d79a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607111044310890bd2d3179@msapiro>

Fabiano Breves wrote:

>On 7/10/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
>As I'm in 2.1.8rc1 I think we don't need to worry about this firt one.
>
>
>
>> If you are using Mailman 2.1.7 or later, we still look for the
>> Approved: line in the first text/plain part in the message, but if we
>> find it, we attempt to remove it from all text parts. This may have
>> failed. If so, please send me (off list) a copy of the message (as an
>> attachment so I see it exactly with all headers and MIME structure).
>> Ideally, in this case, I would like to see the post as received by
>> Mailman, but if this isn't available, the post from the list will do.
>
>
>As soon I get to the office (probably tomorrow) I'll send to your e-mail the
>message.


Good. I'll look for it. When I first implemented the removal from HTML
parts, I tested with MS-OE 6, but things may have changed or it may do
tricky things depending on the password. For example, if one puts

Approved: xyz

in the message, this may wind up looking like

</head><body>Approved:&nbsp;xyz<br>Some more text...

in the HTML. Actually, I'll find that one and change it to

</head><body><br>Some more text...

but there may be variants that I don't find.


>We have a web application that can send mail to lists. Maybe I can change
>the way the poster sends the announce message. The aplication is based on
>ASP language. What header should I use and how I use it. Send msgs with this
>method seems to be the solution because I can take out the responsability of
>putting the password of the poster.


You put exactly the same

Approved: password

line, but you put it in the message headers instead of the message
body. Thus, you still need to provide the password, but since it is in
a recognizable header rather than in a body part and perhaps 'hidden'
in additional body parts, it can be reliably removed from the post
before it is sent out.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jul 11 20:04:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:04:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Authorization Failed
In-Reply-To: <BAY103-DAV664B724C972051FBD1049A9680@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607111104560125b05b7075@msapiro>

Richard Gruver wrote:

>I tried a bunch of times to logon to my Classmates Administrator
>Authentication page, but I entered the wrong password every time.  I then
>found the password in an old email, but that didn't work either.  Is it
>locking me out due to too many attempts, and if so, how long before I can
>try again?


There is no lockout. If you are entering the password in the correct
case (with 'caps lock' off), it must have been changed since the old
email.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.008.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu  Tue Jul 11 20:50:56 2006
From: jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu (Jewel)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:50:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Searchable Archives
Message-ID: <44B3F310.5010506@washburn.edu>

Is there a built in option in Mailman to search all of the archives in a 
particular list?  I saw this one listserv which has the option:
http://lists.seyza.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gnu-arch-dev

I am aware that the archives must be public and can't be private.

Thanks,

-- 
J



From mdbiker at goldray.com  Tue Jul 11 20:59:55 2006
From: mdbiker at goldray.com (Harold Goldstein)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:59:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spams directed to list owner.
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00607110949q5f434459r2460ba1302322d31@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <6.1.2.0.0.20060711104743.0291f110@mail.goldray.com>
	<PC174020060711094609032849f349b1@msapiro>
	<6fbe3da00607110949q5f434459r2460ba1302322d31@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20060711145825.03f90e60@mail.goldray.com>

At 12:49 PM 7/11/2006, Patrick Bogen wrote:
>On 7/11/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>>Is there a question here, or is this perhaps an off-list thread that
>>sudddenly bacame public?
>
>I think Harold is asking why the spam was directed to
>pptc-announce-owner. From the headers (I may or may not be
>interpreting correctly), it looks like the message was directly
>addressed to pptc-announce-owner.

yes, exactly ... sorry about not being more specific ... i am wondering if 
anyone else has this experience oft he list =-owner being spammed in this 
manner and if there is anyway to guard against it.


                                                               harold ...
------------------------------------------------------------
  Harold Goldstein - mdbiker at goldray.com ~~,__o   ~^^
  Goldray Consulting:  http://goldray.com/ ~_-\  < ,   ~  o \
  Web Development/Internet Training         (*)/ (*)  ~  / {   \
  Save The Apes: http://bushmeat.net/                     /   { o}
amber for everyone - http://amberlady.com - fossil bugs too  

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jul 11 21:01:41 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:01:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Searchable Archives
In-Reply-To: <44B3F310.5010506@washburn.edu>
References: <44B3F310.5010506@washburn.edu>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607111201l5e5c447er5b33f8cc41ff349e@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/11/06, Jewel <jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu> wrote:
> Is there a built in option in Mailman to search all of the archives in a
> particular list?  I saw this one listserv which has the option:
> http://lists.seyza.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gnu-arch-dev

Others will probably correct me if I'm wrong, but to get searchable
archives, you need to change the archiver, or include an additional
package.
A name I see tossed around fairly frequently is 'htdig'.

FAQ here:
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.011.htp>
-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jul 11 21:03:15 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:03:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spams directed to list owner.
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20060711145825.03f90e60@mail.goldray.com>
References: <6.1.2.0.0.20060711104743.0291f110@mail.goldray.com>
	<PC174020060711094609032849f349b1@msapiro>
	<6fbe3da00607110949q5f434459r2460ba1302322d31@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.1.2.0.0.20060711145825.03f90e60@mail.goldray.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607111203p44d2c099y52cfc56ebe74be44@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/11/06, Harold Goldstein <mdbiker at goldray.com> wrote:
>  yes, exactly ... sorry about not being more specific ... i am wondering if
> anyone else has this experience oft he list =-owner being spammed in this
> manner and if there is anyway to guard against it.

I think that the usual anti-spam methods should be used here. E.g.,
spamassassin integrated with your MTA.

The bottom line in this case is that Mailman is functioning correctly
(it's forwarding correspondence send from $USER to $LIST-owner to the
people regisetered as $LIST-owner). Your question is more suited to a
general email-related mailing list, or a mailing list dedicate to your
MTA (e.g., sendmail, exim, qmail, etc.)

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From rb at islandnet.com  Tue Jul 11 21:20:52 2006
From: rb at islandnet.com (Ron Brogden)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:20:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spams directed to list owner.
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20060711104743.0291f110@mail.goldray.com>
References: <6.1.2.0.0.20060614171720.02970b10@mail.goldray.com>
	<6fbe3da00606141606j4383e2aeq34a8f557a9275aa5@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.1.2.0.0.20060711104743.0291f110@mail.goldray.com>
Message-ID: <200607111220.52315.rb@islandnet.com>

On Tuesday 11 July 2006 07:52, Harold Goldstein wrote:
> here is the header of a spam received this morning by 2 of us listed as 
> pptc-announce-owner ...
> it is not being directed to the list itself.

My personal solution to this issue was to only allow posts to that address 
from the machine itself.  After adding that rule to the Exim configuration 
the amount of Mailman injected spam I have to deal with dropped by at least 
80% percent. 

Here's the ACL rule I use that deals with this case: 

deny   !hosts = +relay_from_hosts
         local_parts = ^[-a-z0-9]*-owner
         message  = unknown user

Cheers

-- 
islandnet.com
http://www.islandnet.com
support at islandnet.com
ph: (250) 383-0096 fax: (250) 383-6698


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jul 11 21:39:22 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:39:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spams directed to list owner.
In-Reply-To: <200607111220.52315.rb@islandnet.com>
References: <6.1.2.0.0.20060614171720.02970b10@mail.goldray.com>
	<6fbe3da00606141606j4383e2aeq34a8f557a9275aa5@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.1.2.0.0.20060711104743.0291f110@mail.goldray.com>
	<200607111220.52315.rb@islandnet.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607111239o6090b43dw4d83fc22e534b7c3@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/11/06, Ron Brogden <rb at islandnet.com> wrote:
> My personal solution to this issue was to only allow posts to that address
> from the machine itself.  After adding that rule to the Exim configuration
> the amount of Mailman injected spam I have to deal with dropped by at least
> 80% percent.

This somehow subverts the purpose of that address, though, which is to
allow outside persons to easily contact the owner of the list, without
necessarily knowing anything about the list.

At least, that's how I understand it.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From rb at islandnet.com  Tue Jul 11 21:47:07 2006
From: rb at islandnet.com (Ron Brogden)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:47:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spams directed to list owner.
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00607111239o6090b43dw4d83fc22e534b7c3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6.1.2.0.0.20060614171720.02970b10@mail.goldray.com>
	<200607111220.52315.rb@islandnet.com>
	<6fbe3da00607111239o6090b43dw4d83fc22e534b7c3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200607111247.07801.rb@islandnet.com>

On Tuesday 11 July 2006 12:39, Patrick Bogen wrote:
> This somehow subverts the purpose of that address, though, which is to
> allow outside persons to easily contact the owner of the list, without
> necessarily knowing anything about the list.

Most lists seem to display the real address anyway so I am not sure how much 
this obfuscation step really helps:

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

"Mailman-Users list run by barry at python.org, brad at python.org, mm-admin05 
at equinephotoart.com"

I doubt that spammers are incapable of automating searches for "foo @ 
domain.name".

=)

Cheers  

-- 
islandnet.com
http://www.islandnet.com
support at islandnet.com
ph: (250) 383-0096 fax: (250) 383-6698


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Tue Jul 11 21:59:18 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:59:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spams directed to list owner.
In-Reply-To: <200607111247.07801.rb@islandnet.com>
References: <6.1.2.0.0.20060614171720.02970b10@mail.goldray.com>
	<200607111220.52315.rb@islandnet.com>
	<6fbe3da00607111239o6090b43dw4d83fc22e534b7c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<200607111247.07801.rb@islandnet.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060711125338.03797508@crimson-dragon.com>

Ron Brogden sent the message below at 12:47 7/11/2006:

>Most lists seem to display the real address anyway so I am not sure how much
>this obfuscation step really helps:
>
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>
>"Mailman-Users list run by barry at python.org, brad at python.org, 
>mm-admin05
>at equinephotoart.com"
>
>I doubt that spammers are incapable of automating searches for "foo @
>domain.name".
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Such "obfuscation" is virtually useless. It is a pretty trivial 
exercise to write a Perl program  to collect e-mail addresses from 
such schemes (I could do it in a matter of less than an hour to cover 
all of the common variations). Same goes for all sorts of other 
schemes that try to hide the e-mail address.

Since there is little that can be done to prevent a determined person 
from harvesting addresses and nothing that can be done to prevent 
spammers from sending, the best tactic that can be used today is a 
good bayesian spam filter. But that is only part of the solution, it 
also requires a conscientious administrator who is willing to take 
the time to train it on both ham and spam.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jul 11 22:08:56 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:08:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spams directed to list owner.
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060711125338.03797508@crimson-dragon.com>
References: <6.1.2.0.0.20060614171720.02970b10@mail.goldray.com>
	<200607111220.52315.rb@islandnet.com>
	<6fbe3da00607111239o6090b43dw4d83fc22e534b7c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<200607111247.07801.rb@islandnet.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20060711125338.03797508@crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607111308o2c13ed5ct3e763ad3b8829752@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/11/06, Dragon <dragon at crimson-dragon.com> wrote:
> Such "obfuscation" is virtually useless. It is a pretty trivial
> exercise to write a Perl program  to collect e-mail addresses from
> such schemes (I could do it in a matter of less than an hour to cover
> all of the common variations). Same goes for all sorts of other
> schemes that try to hide the e-mail address.
>
> Since there is little that can be done to prevent a determined person
> from harvesting addresses and nothing that can be done to prevent
> spammers from sending, the best tactic that can be used today is a
> good bayesian spam filter. But that is only part of the solution, it
> also requires a conscientious administrator who is willing to take
> the time to train it on both ham and spam.

FWIW, the mini-turing-test ideas seem fairly reasonable, if you build
in enough variations.
E.g.,:
pdsalmonbogen at gmail.com (remove fish)

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jul 11 22:23:59 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:23:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spams directed to list owner.
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00607111308o2c13ed5ct3e763ad3b8829752@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607111323590156713f77f7@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
>FWIW, the mini-turing-test ideas seem fairly reasonable, if you build
>in enough variations.
>E.g.,:
>pdsalmonbogen at gmail.com (remove fish)


Yes, but what do you do when pdsalmonbogen at gmail.com threatens to sue
you over all the spam she gets because you published her address? :-)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Tue Jul 11 21:42:54 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 12:42:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Searchable Archives
In-Reply-To: <44B3F310.5010506@washburn.edu>
References: <44B3F310.5010506@washburn.edu>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060711124034.06238c08@crimson-dragon.com>

Jewel wrote:
>Is there a built in option in Mailman to search all of the archives in a
>particular list?  I saw this one listserv which has the option:
>http://lists.seyza.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gnu-arch-dev
>
>I am aware that the archives must be public and can't be private.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

If you want to use something like Google to index it, then yes, it 
must be public so their robot can crawl the archive site.

If you have access to the server directly and can add a search 
engine, the archives can be private. I have a private list with 
private archives that uses htdig to index the archive. There are a 
few other search packages you can use and they are mentioned in the FAQ.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Tue Jul 11 22:20:43 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 13:20:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spams directed to list owner.
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00607111308o2c13ed5ct3e763ad3b8829752@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <6.1.2.0.0.20060614171720.02970b10@mail.goldray.com>
	<200607111220.52315.rb@islandnet.com>
	<6fbe3da00607111239o6090b43dw4d83fc22e534b7c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<200607111247.07801.rb@islandnet.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20060711125338.03797508@crimson-dragon.com>
	<6fbe3da00607111308o2c13ed5ct3e763ad3b8829752@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060711131921.037b23d8@crimson-dragon.com>

Patrick Bogen sent the message below at 13:08 7/11/2006:
>On 7/11/06, Dragon <dragon at crimson-dragon.com> wrote:
>>Such "obfuscation" is virtually useless. It is a pretty trivial
>>exercise to write a Perl program  to collect e-mail addresses from
>>such schemes (I could do it in a matter of less than an hour to cover
>>all of the common variations). Same goes for all sorts of other
>>schemes that try to hide the e-mail address.
>>
>>Since there is little that can be done to prevent a determined person
>>from harvesting addresses and nothing that can be done to prevent
>>spammers from sending, the best tactic that can be used today is a
>>good bayesian spam filter. But that is only part of the solution, it
>>also requires a conscientious administrator who is willing to take
>>the time to train it on both ham and spam.
>
>FWIW, the mini-turing-test ideas seem fairly reasonable, if you build
>in enough variations.
>E.g.,:
>pdsalmonbogen at gmail.com (remove fish)
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

But even those sort of schemes can be defeated fairly easily with a 
lookup table. Yeah, it takes somebody to set up the tables in the 
first place but after that, it is simply a matter of clever regular 
expression design.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From richardgruver at hotmail.com  Tue Jul 11 23:12:09 2006
From: richardgruver at hotmail.com (Richard Gruver)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 14:12:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <BAY103-DAV12A8BF2E12C80250C0FA42A9680@phx.gbl>

What do I do if I forgot the admin. password?

 

 

 

 

 

-Richard Gruver

 



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jul 11 23:45:57 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 16:45:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <BAY103-DAV12A8BF2E12C80250C0FA42A9680@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY103-DAV12A8BF2E12C80250C0FA42A9680@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607111445p398541acnc967c51acaedc89b@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/11/06, Richard Gruver <richardgruver at hotmail.com> wrote:
> What do I do if I forgot the admin. password?

If you don't know the site password, use bin/mmsitepass to set it, and
then use that to login and change the admin password. (You should know
the site pass.)

Or, just use bin/change_pw to change the list password.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jul 12 00:24:18 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 15:24:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <BAY103-DAV12A8BF2E12C80250C0FA42A9680@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607111524180296678a5ada@msapiro>

Richard Gruver wrote:

>What do I do if I forgot the admin. password?

Perhaps you didn't see my reply to your earlier post
(<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-July/052151.html>)
in which I referred you to the FAQ article which answers this question.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mardin at comcast.net  Wed Jul 12 01:00:28 2006
From: mardin at comcast.net (mardin at comcast.net)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 23:00:28 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving mailman
Message-ID: <071120062300.19177.44B42D8C000C568F00004AE9220699849902070B9D0E03@comcast.net>

Mark,

Please see the errors after moving to the new mailman server with same hostname and IP address:

> Didn't work how? What happens when you post to a list? What happens
> when you go to that URL?

(1) Went to URL (http://mailman_server.domain.net/mailman/admin/) and got errors:

Not Found
The request URL /mailman/admin/ was not found on this server

(2) Errors of post to the mailing list test at mailman_server.domain.net

Jul 11 8:02:20 mailman_server sendmail[5791]: k6BM2ALL005791: from=<mardin at domain.net>, size=418, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<44B41F46.3080604 at domain.net>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=mardin.domain.net [163.10.21.33]
Jul 11 8:02:20 mailman_server smrsh: uid 8: attempt to use "mailman post test" (stat failed)
Jul 11 8:02:20 mailman_server sendmail[5792]: k6BM2ALL005791: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post test", ctladdr=<test at mailman_server.domain.net> (8/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=30624, dsn=5.0.0, stat=Service unavailable
Jul 11 8:02:20 mailman_server sendmail[5792]: k6BM2ALL005791: k6BM2ALL005792: DSN: Service unavailable

Thanks for your help!
Mardin


 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
> mardin at comcast.net wrote:
> >
> >The Mailman 2.1.5 was running well. We wanted to move it to another computer 
> with more powerfull hardware. We installed the same Linux system on the new 
> computer.
> >  
> >Then we moved all Mailman related data from the original computer to the new 
> computer:
> >/usr/local/mailman
> >/home/mailman
> >/etc/passwd
> >/etc/group
> >/etc/httpd
> >/etc/init.d/mailman
> >/etc/mail
> >/etc/aliases
> >
> >We powered off the original computer and renamed the new computer with the 
> original hostname and IP address. After that we restarted mailman on the new 
> computer
 and got the master qrunner lock errors::
> ># su - mailman
> >$ cd /usr/local/mailman
> >$ bin/mailmanctl start
> >The master qrunner lock could not be acquired. It appears as though there is a 
> stale master qrunner lock. Try re-running mailmanctl with the -s flag.
> 
> 
> Because you moved /usr/local/mailman while Mailman was running on the
> old system so you moved the lock files.
> 
> 
> >We re-run mailmanctl with the -s flag without errors: 
> >$ bin/mailmanctl -s start
> 
> 
> OK
> 
> 
> >then restart mailman again:
> >$ bin/mailmanctl -s -q start
> 
> 
> Unless you stopped Mailman in between, you now have two masters and
> sets of qrunners running. This is bad. See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.068.htp>
> and stop all the Mailman processes as described there and then do
> 'bin/mailmanctl start' just once.
> 
> 
> >The maiman daeman were up but both mailman and http://hostname/mailman/admin/ 
> didn't work. Does anyone know how to resolve it?
> 
> 
> Didn't work how? What happens when you post to a list? What happens
> when you go to that URL?
> 
> 
> >questions: Is the above moving method correct or not? Did we forget something 
> else? Is there a better way to move mailman without re-compile it to another 
> same hostname, IP address, and same OS system machine?
> 
> 
> I would stop the MTA, web server, Mailman and all other services on the
> source machine before moving the directories and files, but I would
> prefer to actually install and test all the software on the new box
> and then just move the list and archive data for Mailman.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 




From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jul 12 02:36:59 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 17:36:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving mailman
In-Reply-To: <071120062300.19177.44B42D8C000C568F00004AE9220699849902070B9D0E03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607111736590203ebb34ba6@msapiro>

mardin at comcast.net wrote:
>
>Please see the errors after moving to the new mailman server with same hostname and IP address:
>
>> Didn't work how? What happens when you post to a list? What happens
>> when you go to that URL?
>
>(1) Went to URL (http://mailman_server.domain.net/mailman/admin/) and got errors:
>
>Not Found
>The request URL /mailman/admin/ was not found on this server


There is a problem in httpd.conf or mailman. Either

ScriptAlias /mailman/ ...

doesn't point to the mailman cgi-bin/ directory or it doesn't contain
the wrappers.

What does the web server error_log say?



>(2) Errors of post to the mailing list test at mailman_server.domain.net
>
>Jul 11 8:02:20 mailman_server sendmail[5791]: k6BM2ALL005791: from=<mardin at domain.net>, size=418, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<44B41F46.3080604 at domain.net>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=mardin.domain.net [163.10.21.33]
>Jul 11 8:02:20 mailman_server smrsh: uid 8: attempt to use "mailman post test" (stat failed)
>Jul 11 8:02:20 mailman_server sendmail[5792]: k6BM2ALL005791: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post test", ctladdr=<test at mailman_server.domain.net> (8/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=30624, dsn=5.0.0, stat=Service unavailable
>Jul 11 8:02:20 mailman_server sendmail[5792]: k6BM2ALL005791: k6BM2ALL005792: DSN: Service unavailable


Sendmail is using smrsh and is unable to execute the mailman wrapper.
Do you have a /etc/smrsh directory? Does it contain a symlink from
'mailman' to '/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman'. See item 3) in
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 12 04:38:17 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 22:38:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] email footers
Message-ID: <44B46099.2090705@yahoo.com>

I've been using demime for years to strip reduna nt email footers (Sent 
by..., Post: ..., Options: ..., etc.) in addition to stripping 
attachments.  I am now setting up a new server and plan to migrate 
existing lists to it.  In the past we have not used Mailman's content 
filtering mechanisms, but I plan to do so now (mm v2.1.8).   So.... a 
cursory look at this list seems to show that MM can strip existing 
footers off of email relies, is this true or does python.org use 
something else?

-Jim P.




From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jul 12 05:11:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 20:11:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] email footers
In-Reply-To: <44B46099.2090705@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607112011430904ebb34e53@msapiro>

Jim Popovitch wrote:

>I've been using demime for years to strip reduna nt email footers (Sent 
>by..., Post: ..., Options: ..., etc.) in addition to stripping 
>attachments.  I am now setting up a new server and plan to migrate 
>existing lists to it.  In the past we have not used Mailman's content 
>filtering mechanisms, but I plan to do so now (mm v2.1.8).   So.... a 
>cursory look at this list seems to show that MM can strip existing 
>footers off of email relies, is this true or does python.org use 
>something else?


Mailman can strip footers if they are a separate MIME part with a
content-type that you don't want to accept for the list. If the
footers are simply appended to the body of the mail or if they are
added as a separate MIME part but with the same content-type (e.g.
text/plain) as the body you want to accept, then Mailman's content
filtering can't remove them without also removing the body unless they
are in a separate MIME part with a 'filename' with a reliable
extension that you can filter on, but this is not likely to be the
case.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 12 05:21:35 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 23:21:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] email footers
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607112011430904ebb34e53@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200607112011430904ebb34e53@msapiro>
Message-ID: <44B46ABF.90805@yahoo.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Jim Popovitch wrote:
> 
>> I've been using demime for years to strip reduna nt email footers (Sent 
>> by..., Post: ..., Options: ..., etc.) in addition to stripping 
>> attachments.  I am now setting up a new server and plan to migrate 
>> existing lists to it.  In the past we have not used Mailman's content 
>> filtering mechanisms, but I plan to do so now (mm v2.1.8).   So.... a 
>> cursory look at this list seems to show that MM can strip existing 
>> footers off of email relies, is this true or does python.org use 
>> something else?
> 
> 
> Mailman can strip footers if they are a separate MIME part with a
> content-type that you don't want to accept for the list. If the
> footers are simply appended to the body of the mail or if they are
> added as a separate MIME part but with the same content-type (e.g.
> text/plain) as the body you want to accept, then Mailman's content
> filtering can't remove them without also removing the body unless they
> are in a separate MIME part with a 'filename' with a reliable
> extension that you can filter on, but this is not likely to be the
> case.

Hmmm.  Makes sense.  How does this list work then, it appears that the 
footers of this list are a stripped in replies.  I imagine some people 
do it themselves, but is there anything used to automatically strip old 
footers that might appear in replies?  I noticed that some of this 
behavior might be due to me using Thunderbird which appears to not 
include footers following "--" in a message.

-Jim P.

--
Test footer
Test footer two






From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jul 12 05:49:29 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 20:49:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] email footers
In-Reply-To: <44B46ABF.90805@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607112049290263ebb34bc4@msapiro>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
>
>Hmmm.  Makes sense.  How does this list work then, it appears that the 
>footers of this list are a stripped in replies.

Not true. See for example
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-July/052098.html>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 12 05:56:44 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 23:56:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] email footers
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607112049290263ebb34bc4@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200607112049290263ebb34bc4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <44B472FC.9030603@yahoo.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Jim Popovitch wrote:
>> Hmmm.  Makes sense.  How does this list work then, it appears that the 
>> footers of this list are a stripped in replies.
> 
> Not true. See for example
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-July/052098.html>
> 

Very interesting.  So it's the MUA doing it not the backend.  OK, (last 
follow-up for now ;-)), what would it take to have Mailman strip lines 
that begin with special characters.  For instance, if I change my 
footers on the "top posters" lists to something like this:

     ++ -----------------------------
     ++ Top Posters mailing list at lusers.tld
     ++ http://lusers.tld/mailman/listinfo/top-posters
     ++ FAQ: (not needed since they won't read it)
     ++ Search http://.......

could Mailman be modified/configure to remove all "footer" messages that 
begin with "++ "?   I know of the possibilities for things to go bad 
when editing the body, but it just seems like a good oppty to auto clean 
up messages that others don't.

-Jim P.



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Jul 12 05:15:16 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 22:15:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Searchable Archives
In-Reply-To: <44B3F310.5010506@washburn.edu>
References: <44B3F310.5010506@washburn.edu>
Message-ID: <p06200700c0da1986c3e1@[10.0.1.213]>

At 1:50 PM -0500 2006-07-11, Jewel wrote:
>  Is there a built in option in Mailman to search all of the archives in a
>  particular list?

	Built-in?  No.  There are the ht:dig patches that Richard 
Barrett maintains (search the FAQ Wizard), and we hope to be able to 
fix this issue with Mailman 2.2, but not in the current version.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Jul 12 05:17:38 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 22:17:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spams directed to list owner.
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20060711145825.03f90e60@mail.goldray.com>
References: <6.1.2.0.0.20060711104743.0291f110@mail.goldray.com>
	<PC174020060711094609032849f349b1@msapiro>
	<6fbe3da00607110949q5f434459r2460ba1302322d31@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.1.2.0.0.20060711145825.03f90e60@mail.goldray.com>
Message-ID: <p06200701c0da19d8d71a@[10.0.1.213]>

At 2:59 PM -0400 2006-07-11, Harold Goldstein wrote:

>  yes, exactly ... sorry about not being more specific ... i am wondering if
>  anyone else has this experience oft he list =-owner being spammed in this
>  manner

Yup.  Happens to me all the time.

>         and if there is anyway to guard against it.

Improve your anti-spam measures within your MTA.  Look for tools like 
SpamAssassin, D-SPAM, SpamBayes, etc....  You can find some pointers 
to such programs in the FAQ Wizard.

Beyond that, no -- Mailman is working as designed, and listowners 
will get more spam that they have to deal with, in order that 
listmembers will get less spam.  That's one of the prices you pay for 
being a listowner.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 12 06:11:15 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 00:11:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Searchable Archives
In-Reply-To: <p06200700c0da1986c3e1@[10.0.1.213]>
References: <44B3F310.5010506@washburn.edu>
	<p06200700c0da1986c3e1@[10.0.1.213]>
Message-ID: <44B47663.7060408@yahoo.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 1:50 PM -0500 2006-07-11, Jewel wrote:
>>  Is there a built in option in Mailman to search all of the archives in a
>>  particular list?
> 
> 	Built-in?  No.  There are the ht:dig patches that Richard 
> Barrett maintains (search the FAQ Wizard), and we hope to be able to 
> fix this issue with Mailman 2.2, but not in the current version.

I second Richard's patches, they rock!  They are easy to add to Mailman, 
and assuming your server supports htdig 3.2 (Debian Sarge doesn't) then 
you will be good to go.

-Jim P.


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jul 12 06:31:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 21:31:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] email footers
In-Reply-To: <44B472FC.9030603@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607112131560076840fd084@msapiro>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
>
>what would it take to have Mailman strip lines 
>that begin with special characters.  For instance, if I change my 
>footers on the "top posters" lists to something like this:
>
>     ++ -----------------------------
>     ++ Top Posters mailing list at lusers.tld
>     ++ http://lusers.tld/mailman/listinfo/top-posters
>     ++ FAQ: (not needed since they won't read it)
>     ++ Search http://.......
>
>could Mailman be modified/configure to remove all "footer" messages that 
>begin with "++ "?   I know of the possibilities for things to go bad 
>when editing the body, but it just seems like a good oppty to auto clean 
>up messages that others don't.


There is no configuration option to do this. If you want to do it in
code, you could implement a custom handler to do it (see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.067.htp>).

It may not be straightforward depending on what content filtering you
already do. I would add the handler after the existing content
filtering (MimeDel) handler so you don't have to deal with parts that
are going to be removed anyway.

I used to manage some Topica.com lists and they did it by enclosing the
footer between funny lines like

     ---^---------------------------------------------
     Top Posters mailing list at lusers.tld
     http://lusers.tld/mailman/listinfo/top-posters
     FAQ: (not needed since they won't read it)
     Search http://.......
     ---^---------------------------------------------

They figured that '---^---------------------------------------------'
wouldn't ever appear in a post other than in their footer and they
could recognize the line even if it were preceded by various quoting
characters. So they just looked for that line and deleted it and
everything up to and including the next one.

This worked OK for plain text except it got their footer, but not those
added by Yahoo, Hotmail, etc. so it was only partly effective.

HTML was another story. It worked OK some of the time, but what they
did was when they found the funny pattern, they deleted the entire
line that contained it. This didn't work too well with MUAs that
formatted HTML parts without any line breaks in the raw HTML source
since it deleted the entire contents of the HTML part resulting in a
'blank' message. MSN Explorer 7.02 was the MUA that was responsible
for this at that time, but there may be others.

The moral is if you're going to programatically remove parts of the
message body, be careful.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From techjedi at gmail.com  Wed Jul 12 07:00:13 2006
From: techjedi at gmail.com (Chris McKeever)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 00:00:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] incorrect archive time (daylight savings)
Message-ID: <d9aa9070607112200y2993db7by4c5bf1dce51cec4@mail.gmail.com>

Only found one past entry for this in the archives/google, but
unfortunately no answer/resolution.

When an email comes into the list and it gets archived, it is gettings
timestamped as CDT as opposed to CST, which then causes the archive to
be offset by that hour difference.

Is this intended behaviour, or a fixable issue?

Thanks -
Chris


-- 
----------------------------------
please respond to the list .. if you need to contact me direct
cgmckeever is the account
prupref.com is the domain

<A href="http://www.prupref.com">Simply Chicago Real Estate</A>


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Jul 12 09:18:44 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 02:18:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] incorrect archive time (daylight savings)
In-Reply-To: <d9aa9070607112200y2993db7by4c5bf1dce51cec4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d9aa9070607112200y2993db7by4c5bf1dce51cec4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06200704c0da52370d36@[10.0.1.213]>

At 12:00 AM -0500 2006-07-12, Chris McKeever wrote:

>  When an email comes into the list and it gets archived, it is gettings
>  timestamped as CDT as opposed to CST, which then causes the archive to
>  be offset by that hour difference.
>
>  Is this intended behaviour, or a fixable issue?

It all depends on where that "Date:" header is being added.  If it's 
coming from the sender's end, then there's probably not much you can 
do to fix that, certainly not within Mailman (at least, not without 
making some source code changes).  If it's being added by your local 
MTA, then you should fix the timezone settings on that machine.

But since RFC 822 and 2822 specify the "Date:" header as being 
required for Internet messages, odds are pretty good that's coming 
from the remote end.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From t.d.lee at durham.ac.uk  Wed Jul 12 11:00:21 2006
From: t.d.lee at durham.ac.uk (David Lee)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:00:21 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] incorrect archive time (daylight savings)
In-Reply-To: <p06200704c0da52370d36@[10.0.1.213]>
References: <d9aa9070607112200y2993db7by4c5bf1dce51cec4@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06200704c0da52370d36@[10.0.1.213]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0607120930190.4332@arachne.dur.ac.uk>

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006, Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 12:00 AM -0500 2006-07-12, Chris McKeever wrote:
>
> >  When an email comes into the list and it gets archived, it is gettings
> >  timestamped as CDT as opposed to CST, which then causes the archive to
> >  be offset by that hour difference.
> >
> >  Is this intended behaviour, or a fixable issue?
>
> It all depends on where that "Date:" header is being added.  If it's
> coming from the sender's end, then there's probably not much you can
> do to fix that, certainly not within Mailman (at least, not without
> making some source code changes).  If it's being added by your local
> MTA, then you should fix the timezone settings on that machine.
>
> But since RFC 822 and 2822 specify the "Date:" header as being
> required for Internet messages, odds are pretty good that's coming
> from the remote end.

I wonder whether there might be a deeper and more general problem of which
this CST/CDT is just one surface symptom?

For many people (generators of emails heading towards Mailman and its
archives), having the correct time and date on their PC may not even have
been considered.  Or even if it has (once, at purchase time), it could
have got itself changed without anyone ever noticing (e.g. domestically by
an enthusiastically experimental offspring).

Whatever the cause, the "Date:" field is unreliable, sometimes being days,
months or even a year or so out.  Yes, the majority of PCs will be
reasonably well set up.  But a significant minority (wild guess 5%) will
probably be far enough out for their outbound emails to get significantly
misplaced in (for instance) date-dependent Mailman archives.

Might it not be better, if reasonably possible, for Mailman to base its
archive timings upon the arrival time (suggest UTC-based) at the server,
which we can safely assume to be reasonably good and, more importantly, to
be reliably montonically increasing, rather than upon the unreliable
user-supplied "Date:"?  And the CST/CDT issue would automatically be OK.

(For those who like choice, there could be a Mailman-admin option of which
date (email "Date:" or server arrival-time (or ...?)) to use.  And for
those who really like choice, that could even have a per-list option.)

Just a thought...


-- 

:  David Lee                                I.T. Service          :
:  Senior Systems Programmer                Computer Centre       :
:                                           Durham University     :
:  http://www.dur.ac.uk/t.d.lee/            South Road            :
:                                           Durham DH1 3LE        :
:  Phone: +44 191 334 2752                  U.K.                  :


From fabiano.breves at gmail.com  Wed Jul 12 15:21:16 2006
From: fabiano.breves at gmail.com (Fabiano Breves)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:21:16 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange problem with password.
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607111044310890bd2d3179@msapiro>
References: <1c22506e0607111023h5d3a21c6uc281daa35d62d79a@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200607111044310890bd2d3179@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1c22506e0607120621r73d4a9b3r2b81ff460e68282e@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/11/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Fabiano Breves wrote:
>
> >On 7/10/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> >
> >As I'm in 2.1.8rc1 I think we don't need to worry about this firt one.
> >
> >
> >
> >> If you are using Mailman 2.1.7 or later, we still look for the
> >> Approved: line in the first text/plain part in the message, but if we
> >> find it, we attempt to remove it from all text parts. This may have
> >> failed. If so, please send me (off list) a copy of the message (as an
> >> attachment so I see it exactly with all headers and MIME structure).
> >> Ideally, in this case, I would like to see the post as received by
> >> Mailman, but if this isn't available, the post from the list will do.
> >
> >
> >As soon I get to the office (probably tomorrow) I'll send to your e-mail
> the
> >message.
>
>
> Good. I'll look for it. When I first implemented the removal from HTML
> parts, I tested with MS-OE 6, but things may have changed or it may do
> tricky things depending on the password. For example, if one puts
>
> Approved: xyz
>
> in the message, this may wind up looking like
>
> </head><body>Approved:&nbsp;xyz<br>Some more text...
>
> in the HTML. Actually, I'll find that one and change it to
>
> </head><body><br>Some more text...
>
> but there may be variants that I don't find.


Ok, sent to your e-mail address a txt file with the source code of the
message.

Just wondering ( I don't know how the software does it ) could mailman just
get the Approved from the text part and search for it in the other parts of
the msg ??


>We have a web application that can send mail to lists. Maybe I can change
> >the way the poster sends the announce message. The aplication is based on
> >ASP language. What header should I use and how I use it. Send msgs with
> this
> >method seems to be the solution because I can take out the responsability
> of
> >putting the password of the poster.
>
>
> You put exactly the same
>
> Approved: password
>
> line, but you put it in the message headers instead of the message
> body. Thus, you still need to provide the password, but since it is in
> a recognizable header rather than in a body part and perhaps 'hidden'
> in additional body parts, it can be reliably removed from the post
> before it is sent out.



Ok, I think I'll do it from now on. Just looking for the asp command to
inster a mail header.

thanks a lot for your help.


--
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


-- 
Fabiano de Carvalho Breves
fabiano.breves at gmail.com


From dcarvalho at xsmail.com  Wed Jul 12 16:21:32 2006
From: dcarvalho at xsmail.com (Daniel Carvalho)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:21:32 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error messages in the archive
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607110928500062dcd6d450@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200607110928500062dcd6d450@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1152714092.28858.265860810@webmail.messagingengine.com>



On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 09:28:50 -0700, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
said:
> Daniel Carvalho wrote:
> 
> >Our SMTP server has a limitation in the number of messages it can send
> >per hour, so it started to reject messages, and the Mailman server
> >interpreted then as bounces. Until now, everything normal. 
> >
> >What seem strange is that some error messages appeared in the mailing
> >list archive page.
> >
> >These lines were taken from the "archive by date" page:
> >
> ># [CA-info] Status   The Post Office
> ># [CA-info] Returned mail: Data format error   Mail Delivery Subsystem
> ># [CA-info] Mail System Error - Returned Mail   Automatic Email Delivery
> >Software
> >
> >The archive is supposed to show the messages that were send to the list.
> >This means that all subscribers receibed these error message? Or mailman
> >get confused and put these message in the archive?
> 
> 
> It appears that there are two different issues. The messages in your
> archive are not the kind of bounce messages that you would see from an
> SMTP "number of messages" limitation, so what I think is happening is
> that some non-compliant MTA at the intended recipient's end is
> returning a bounce to the address in some header which happens to be
> the list posting address rather than returning the bounce to the
> envelope sender which is the list-bounces address.
> 
> Then your list is accepting these messages and they are archived and
> sent to the list.
> 



i forgot to say that "lista-info at meusite.pt" is the name of the mailing
list (i only changed the hostname to the fictious name, "meusite.pt")

The list is configured so that ONLY email addresses that end in
"@meusite.pt" can post. This means that a message whose sender is
"lista-info at meusite.pt" would be accepted...

I did that through the setting "List of non-member addresses whose
postings should be automatically accepted." with the value
"^.*@meusite.pt". I think i need to change that!

thanks, Mark





From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jul 12 16:57:37 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 07:57:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange problem with password.
In-Reply-To: <1c22506e0607120621r73d4a9b3r2b81ff460e68282e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607120757370578880e4987@msapiro>

Fabiano Breves wrote:
>
>Ok, sent to your e-mail address a txt file with the source code of the
>message.
>
>Just wondering ( I don't know how the software does it ) could mailman just
>get the Approved from the text part and search for it in the other parts of
>the msg ??


That's exactly what it does, but the problem in this case is that the
HTML part is quoted-printable encoded and the approved: line was split
across two lines of the message HTML part. I.e. '=\n' was inserted
between Approved: and the password so the search failed.

This could be accounted for by adjusting the search pattern, but the
real fix is to 'decode' the encoded part (which could be base64
encoded) before searching. This in turn has other implications for
resetting the part after removing the Approved: line, but I'll work on
it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From phanh at canby.k12.or.us  Wed Jul 12 17:35:35 2006
From: phanh at canby.k12.or.us (Hung Phan)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 08:35:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Query the available lists
Message-ID: <90D6B2DE-2CFF-41A8-883B-78138D4633F3@canby.k12.or.us>

The log file shows many queries looking for available lists. Is there  
a way to find out who queried the available lists?
OS 10.4.6, Mailman 2.1.5

Jul 12 02:21:08 2006 (10579) No such list "polaris-parents":
Jul 12 02:23:08 2006 (10596) No such list "orion-parents":
Jul 12 02:29:24 2006 (10645) No such list "assessment":
Jul 12 02:30:24 2006 (10654) admin.py access for non-existent  
list:delta-parents
Jul 12 02:36:54 2006 (10710) No such list "kosmos-parents":
Jul 12 02:37:24 2006 (10713) No such list "teamdelta":
Jul 12 02:41:10 2006 (10746) admin.py access for non-existent  
list:endeavor-parents
Jul 12 02:42:56 2006 (10761) admin.py access for non-existent list:  
parents
Jul 12 02:50:26 2006 (10820) admin.py access for non-existent list:staff
Jul 12 02:50:40 2006 (10821) No such list "staff":
Jul 12 02:50:56 2006 (10830) No such list "volunteers":

Thank you,


From techjedi at gmail.com  Wed Jul 12 17:42:07 2006
From: techjedi at gmail.com (Chris McKeever)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 10:42:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] incorrect archive time (daylight savings)
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607120722570593880e49aa@msapiro>
References: <d9aa9070607112200y2993db7by4c5bf1dce51cec4@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200607120722570593880e49aa@msapiro>
Message-ID: <d9aa9070607120842r4feb7fe3q1ec3eff408d76af2@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/12/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Chris McKeever wrote:
> >
> >When an email comes into the list and it gets archived, it is gettings
> >timestamped as CDT as opposed to CST, which then causes the archive to
> >be offset by that hour difference.
> >
> >Is this intended behaviour, or a fixable issue?
>
>
> This is bug # 1433673
> <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1433673&group_id=103&atid=100103>.
>
> It is fixed in Mailman 2.1.8


Thanks!!!
just as I was about to post all my pertinent header and date information! ;)



>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


-- 
----------------------------------
please respond to the list .. if you need to contact me direct
cgmckeever is the account
prupref.com is the domain

<A href="http://www.prupref.com">Simply Chicago Real Estate</A>


From fabiano.breves at gmail.com  Wed Jul 12 19:44:16 2006
From: fabiano.breves at gmail.com (Fabiano Breves)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 14:44:16 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange problem with password.
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607120757370578880e4987@msapiro>
References: <1c22506e0607120621r73d4a9b3r2b81ff460e68282e@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200607120757370578880e4987@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1c22506e0607121044l1cda5629v1000a451eada62e@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/12/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Fabiano Breves wrote:
> >
> >Ok, sent to your e-mail address a txt file with the source code of the
> >message.
> >
> >Just wondering ( I don't know how the software does it ) could mailman
> just
> >get the Approved from the text part and search for it in the other parts
> of
> >the msg ??
>
>
> That's exactly what it does, but the problem in this case is that the
> HTML part is quoted-printable encoded and the approved: line was split
> across two lines of the message HTML part. I.e. '=\n' was inserted
> between Approved: and the password so the search failed.
>
> This could be accounted for by adjusting the search pattern, but the
> real fix is to 'decode' the encoded part (which could be base64
> encoded) before searching. This in turn has other implications for
> resetting the part after removing the Approved: line, but I'll work on
> it.


I think the problem migth started with an upgrade or update on the senders
Outlook Express. Because the procedure worked for some time.

If this is the case, isn't better to forget the 1st line method and use just
the header one? Or maybe use the subject line to do the job ?

Just an idea. Don't want to mess with your business.

I'll be talking to my development team to change our application so it
include the Approved header in the message as it is more reliable.

Thank you very much for your time and help.


-- 
Fabiano de Carvalho Breves
fabiano.breves at gmail.com


From scott_list at mischko.com  Thu Jul 13 00:00:14 2006
From: scott_list at mischko.com (Scott Chapman)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:00:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] To: is being rewritten by some mail agents
Message-ID: <44B570EE.7040105@mischko.com>

I have a mailing list on my server, running Postfix as my MTA with virtual 
domains.  I'm using Dax Kelson's postfix-to-mailman.py which appears to be 
working fine (see here: http://listes.rezo.net/how.php).

I send a message to one of my lists.

The "To:" line in the header reads:
   To: iae-staff at lists.appliedeco.org
... when I send it.

Some users are seeing it when it arrives as:
   To: iae-staff at www.mischko.com
... which is the name my server EHLO's as when it sends email out, and is the 
canonical name for my server.

I packet-sniffed the email going to one of these servers that rewrites the To: 
line and find that it's using Sendmail.  I also confirmed that the To: line 
_is_ going out correctly.  I have an account on one of these offending servers 
and I see it as www.mischko.com on that account also.

Anyone else seen stuff like this?

Any thing I can do to fix this?

It's causing problems because users try sending to iae-staff at www.mischko.com 
by clicking on the address they see and that's not the right address for my lists.

Scott


From mardin at comcast.net  Thu Jul 13 00:26:48 2006
From: mardin at comcast.net (mardin at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 22:26:48 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving mailman
Message-ID: <071220062226.22146.44B577280000CB1100005682220073747802070B9D0E03@comcast.net>

Mark,

Thanks for your help! Both URL and post are working now after following your instructions!

But I met a new problem. After I used URL of https://mailman_server/mailman/admin/, I could log in the list successfully. But I could not modify the contents of configurations and do other administration work. When I wanted to submit the changes, I got the following message:

"Although this page is encrypted, the information you have entered is to be sent over an unencrypted    connection and could easily be read by a third party.
Are you sure you want to continue sending this information? -> Continue"

After I clicked the Continue Botton, nothing changed about the list. What were the problems about the above message? Do you know how to resolve it?

Mardin
 

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
> mardin at comcast.net wrote:
> >
> >Please see the errors after moving to the new mailman server with same hostname 
> and IP address:
> >
> >> Didn't work how? What happens when you post to a list? What happens
> >> when you go to that URL?
> >
> >(1) Went to URL (http://mailman_server.domain.net/mailman/admin/) and got 
> errors:
> >
> >Not Found
> >The request URL /mailman/admin/ was not found on this server
> 
> 
> There is a problem in httpd.conf or mailman. Either
> 
> ScriptAlias /mailman/ ...
> 
> doesn't point to the mailman cgi-bin/ directory or it doesn't contain
> the wrappers.
> 
> What does the web server error_log say?
> 
> 
> 
> >(2) Errors of post to the mailing list test at mailman_server.domain.net
> >
> >Jul 11 8:02:20 mailman_server sendmail[5791]: k6BM2ALL005791: 
> from=<mardin at domain.net>, size=418, class=0, nrcpts=1, 
> msgid=<44B41F46.3080604 at domain.net>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, 
> relay=mardin.domain.net [163.10.21.33]
> >Jul 11 8:02:20 mailman_server smrsh: uid 8: attempt to use "mailman post test" 
> (stat failed)
> >Jul 11 8:02:20 mailman_server sendmail[5792]: k6BM2ALL005791: 
> to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post test", 
> ctladdr=<test at mailman_server.domain.net> (8/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, 
> mailer=prog, pri=30624, dsn=5.0.0, stat=Service unavailable
> >Jul 11 8:02:20 mailman_server sendmail[5792]: k6BM2ALL005791: k6BM2ALL005792: 
> DSN: Service unavailable
> 
> 
> Sendmail is using smrsh and is unable to execute the mailman wrapper.
> Do you have a /etc/smrsh directory? Does it contain a symlink from
> 'mailman' to '/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman'. See item 3) in
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 




From ki at knifecenter.com  Thu Jul 13 00:34:13 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 18:34:13 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You are not authorized to create new mailing lists
	(WEB ONLY)
Message-ID: <C0DAF125.2946C%ki@knifecenter.com>

I believe I have setup everything properly for a new mailman install.
I have the following system:
Fedora Core 4
Postfix
mailman 2.1.5

I am able to post a help request and subscribe request to the mail server.
I get valid responses.

However, for example, when I try and acknowledge the subscribe request by
clicking on a link to subscribe using the web, the web interface shows that
there is no such list.

Furthermore, when I try and create a new list from the web, it says that I
am unauthorized to create a list, even though I entered in the correct
passwords that are required: List creator's (authentication) password.

I believe it has something to do with group id, but I don't know how to fix
this.

Regards,
Ki Song



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jul 12 16:22:57 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 07:22:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] incorrect archive time (daylight savings)
In-Reply-To: <d9aa9070607112200y2993db7by4c5bf1dce51cec4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607120722570593880e49aa@msapiro>

Chris McKeever wrote:
>
>When an email comes into the list and it gets archived, it is gettings
>timestamped as CDT as opposed to CST, which then causes the archive to
>be offset by that hour difference.
>
>Is this intended behaviour, or a fixable issue?


This is bug # 1433673
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1433673&group_id=103&atid=100103>.

It is fixed in Mailman 2.1.8

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jul 13 02:02:06 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 17:02:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Query the available lists
In-Reply-To: <90D6B2DE-2CFF-41A8-883B-78138D4633F3@canby.k12.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC17402006071217020601714d9d66b1@msapiro>

Hung Phan wrote:

>The log file shows many queries looking for available lists. Is there  
>a way to find out who queried the available lists?
>OS 10.4.6, Mailman 2.1.5
>
>Jul 12 02:21:08 2006 (10579) No such list "polaris-parents":
>Jul 12 02:23:08 2006 (10596) No such list "orion-parents":
<snip>

Look in the apache access_log to find the access at the corresponding
time and the url including the non-existent list name. This will give
you the IP address of the requestor. That's all the identifying
information you can get.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Jon.Slater at LPBroadband.Net  Thu Jul 13 02:02:41 2006
From: Jon.Slater at LPBroadband.Net (Jon D. Slater)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 18:02:41 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trying to tighten up my security...
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006071011170902037d339b74@msapiro>
Message-ID: <006a01c6a60f$ab8d6b10$0a01a8c0@UgukuPC>

Just curious... Do you know if this patch still checks the 'mod' bit for
entries in the accept_these_non_members?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
> Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 12:17 PM
> To: Jon D. Slater; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Trying to tighten up my security...
> 
> Jon D. Slater wrote:
> >
> >I found this clue:
> 
> 
> Where?
> 
> 
> >> How do I allow subscribers from another list to post in my list without
> >adding them as members?
> >
> >>
> >
> >>     This particular feature might be useful if you manage multiple
> lists,
> >but would like common
> >
> >>     senders among them all without needing to update each one when a
> new
> >subscriber is added.
> >
> >>
> >
> >>     To do this, log into the list's administrative interface:
> >
> >>
> >
> >>       * Go to Privacy options
> >
> >>       * Go to Sender filters
> >
> >>       * Add another list's address into accept_these_listsenders
> >(including @mailman.ucalgary.ca, one address per line)
> >
> >>       * Press the Submit Your Changes button when finished
> >
> >
> >
> >But I don't see 'accept_these_listsenders' on any of my
> Board at blahblah.com
> >administrative pages.
> 
> 
> I think the above is referring to some locally modified Mailman (at
> ucalgary.ca ?).
> 
> See
> <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id
> =103&atid=300103>
> for another way to do this. This patch implements the ability to, in
> your case, add @members to the board list's accept_these_nonmembers to
> allow any member of the members list to post to the board list.
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 
> 
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 7/7/2006




From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jul 13 02:26:31 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 17:26:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving mailman
In-Reply-To: <071220062226.22146.44B577280000CB1100005682220073747802070B9D0E03@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607121726310156396cd85b@msapiro>

mardin at comcast.net wrote:
>
>But I met a new problem. After I used URL of https://mailman_server/mailman/admin/, I could log in the list successfully. But I could not modify the contents of configurations and do other administration work. When I wanted to submit the changes, I got the following message:
>
>"Although this page is encrypted, the information you have entered is to be sent over an unencrypted    connection and could easily be read by a third party.
>Are you sure you want to continue sending this information? -> Continue"
>
>After I clicked the Continue Botton, nothing changed about the list. What were the problems about the above message? Do you know how to resolve it?

I'm not sure I know what ALL the problems are, but my question is are
you trying to access Mailman via SSL (i.e. https scheme URLs) or not.
If so, it appears that the POST URLs in the admin pages are http, not
https. To change this, you need to have

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'

in mm_cfg.py and then run fix_url on all the lists to update them. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.027.htp>.

If you are not trying to use SSL, then go to
http://mailman_server/mailman/admin/ and not to
https://mailman_server/mailman/admin/.

If you are getting the https URLs because of a redirect in your web
server, that is probably causing a loss of the POST data from the
form. The above should fix it. See also,
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jul 13 02:38:07 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 17:38:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You are not authorized to create new mailing
	lists(WEB ONLY)
In-Reply-To: <C0DAF125.2946C%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607121738070406d2429a5d@msapiro>

Ki Song wrote:
>
>However, for example, when I try and acknowledge the subscribe request by
>clicking on a link to subscribe using the web, the web interface shows that
>there is no such list.
>
>Furthermore, when I try and create a new list from the web, it says that I
>am unauthorized to create a list, even though I entered in the correct
>passwords that are required: List creator's (authentication) password.
>
>I believe it has something to do with group id, but I don't know how to fix
>this.


It is not a group mismatch error. If it were, you would get a specific
'group mismatch' response from the wrapper and would never get as far
as getting the 'no such list' or 'unauthorized' messages.

I think it is your web server, but I don't know specifically what. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.065.htp>
for a brief description of a problem where the system language was
Turkish and the web server was misspelling certain environment
variable names with Turkish characters. You may have a similar problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jul 13 02:49:52 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 17:49:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trying to tighten up my security...
In-Reply-To: <006a01c6a60f$ab8d6b10$0a01a8c0@UgukuPC>
Message-ID: <PC17402006071217495209066de0f1de@msapiro>

Jon D. Slater wrote (referring to
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103>):


>Just curious... Do you know if this patch still checks the 'mod' bit for
>entries in the accept_these_non_members?


It does not. It only checks if the non-member address is a member of
the other list and if so, it is the same as if the actual address were
in accept_these_nonmembers.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jul 13 03:19:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 18:19:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange problem with password.
In-Reply-To: <1c22506e0607121044l1cda5629v1000a451eada62e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006071218194309062e93b1d5@msapiro>

Fabiano Breves wrote:
>
>I think the problem migth started with an upgrade or update on the senders
>Outlook Express. Because the procedure worked for some time.


It might have, but I also note the thing that made the quoted-printable
encoded line long enough to require folding is the two font tags:

<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT size=3D3>APPROVED: =
xxxxxxxx</FONT></FONT></DIV>

I.e. there is the presumably default <FONT face=Arial size=2> tag
followed by the size increase <FONT size=3> tag. Perhaps this time the
poster changed the font size for the APPROVED: line and this
precipitated the failure.


>If this is the case, isn't better to forget the 1st line method and use just
>the header one? Or maybe use the subject line to do the job ?


Yes, it is better to use a real header if you can, but some people just
can't conveniently do this so we allow the first body line and try to
remove it.

I don't like the Subject: idea. Granted it is a single place to look
and deal with approval, but it is after all a post and should have a
meaningful subject, and I don't like the idea of trying to parse
approval information out of the Subject: and remove just that and
leave the intended subject. I'm most concerned about trying to remove
some approval keyword with a potentially misspelled passord vs. not
munging a subject that just happens to begin with the keyword.


>Just an idea. Don't want to mess with your business.


I appreciate your input. Community input is always important in the
design and implementation of any feature. And the fact that I don't
like an idea, doesn't mean I can't be persuaded by additional
arguments.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Jul 13 04:28:28 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 21:28:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] To: is being rewritten by some mail agents
In-Reply-To: <44B570EE.7040105@mischko.com>
References: <44B570EE.7040105@mischko.com>
Message-ID: <p0620070bc0db5fd33d60@[10.0.1.213]>

At 3:00 PM -0700 2006-07-12, Scott Chapman wrote:

>  I packet-sniffed the email going to one of these servers that 
>rewrites the To:
>  line and find that it's using Sendmail.  I also confirmed that the To: line
>  _is_ going out correctly.  I have an account on one of these 
>offending servers > and I see it as www.mischko.com on that account 
>also.

The receiving server is doing address canonicalization, as required 
by the RFCs.  The fact that your server is not doing the address 
canonicalization is a serious bug, and should be fixed.

>  Any thing I can do to fix this?

The real solution is not to use CNAMEs at all in your DNS, but 
instead to have the hostnames resolve directly into the appropriate 
IP addresses, and to make sure that the reverse DNS for that IP 
address includes all the appropriate hostnames.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From HisWeedness at gmx.net  Thu Jul 13 10:22:38 2006
From: HisWeedness at gmx.net (Martin Hasselmann)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:22:38 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix virtual domains and mailman
Message-ID: <44B602CE.4040403@gmx.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hello everybody,

having spent many hours searching for an applicable HowTo I hope to get
some help here.

A former admin has setup Postfix on our servers running with virtual
domains. As described in here http://workaround.org/articles/ispmail/ he
configured mailman with alias-maps and virtual maps.

It seems to me that this is an old way of configuring postfix.

Following the instructions given by the mailman install guide, my
problem is now that every try to post on a mailinglist named testlist
(how creative *;)*) ends up with good ol error "unkown user".

Just to get it right: Mailman should handle incoming emails to a
recipient itself an use postfix to answer from the adressed mailadress.
To do this postfix first catches every incoming email and with the
/etc/aliases, where mailman at my.domain is the recipient, postfix should
pipe such an email to /var/lib/mailman/mailman[...].

It seems to me as if postfix fails exactly here and that no mail reaches
 mailman.

My question is: Afaik mailman does not need to work with mysql (where
all virtual emails, mailadress owners etc. are stored in). How can I
force postfix to lookup not only in the mysql-db, but also in
/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases? I have no more ideas! I was pretty sure,
that everything concerning mailman has to be added to postfix's
main.cf-variable "virtual_maps" because there isn't another variable
that seemed applicable for me, too.

Thank you for your help in advance!

MfG,

Martin
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFEtgLOoAQ/BgYpd2QRAn07AJ4rvpuSwQIxtjTyKbMZWey6jTUF1gCeMHkl
Tdtm4wEL588qB5lQr6GW1aY=
=QX9n
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From paul at rubinsoftware.com  Thu Jul 13 14:05:31 2006
From: paul at rubinsoftware.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:05:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with long term mailman setup.
Message-ID: <002801c6a674$a3a38e60$1000a8c0@intelp43200>

Hello,
 
Yesterday at 9:40 in the morning mail just stopped flowing.  Messages came
were stored in the archive and never sent out.  I tried restarting
everything and looking for locks, etc.  There were no messages in the log to
indicate anything out of the ordinary.  
 
The only thing I could find strange was the the qfiles/out directory had
hundreds of file in it.
 
Finally with no other ideas I Upgraded from Mailman 2.1.6 to Mailman 2.1.8
and mail started flowing.  When 2.1.8 was started there were a large number
of errors:
 
Jul 12 17:46:08 2006 (22768) SHUNTING:
1152740247.566874+dc88e771186bc6266faeda03363eb2b3a3076cd2
Jul 12 17:46:08 2006 (22768) Uncaught runner exception: 'str' object has no
attribute 'get_sender'
Jul 12 17:46:08 2006 (22768) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 159, in _onefile
    sender = msg.get_sender()
AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'get_sender'

After that some mail went out and some was lost.
 
Now this morning, after sending half a dozen messages, it appears to be
happening again.  The seventh message showed up in the archive and has not
apparently gone anywhere else.
 
Is there any information from the mailman daily status report that might
provide any clue to what is happening?
 
Thanks.
Paul.


From jumper99 at gmx.de  Thu Jul 13 15:38:07 2006
From: jumper99 at gmx.de (Helmut Schneider)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 15:38:07 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not sending password reminders,
	subscription confirmations
References: <d9aa9070607112200y2993db7by4c5bf1dce51cec4@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06200704c0da52370d36@[10.0.1.213]>
Message-ID: <077f01c6a681$93576c90$609b65c1@vpe.de>

Hi,

I'm using mailman 2.1.8 on OpenBSD. I have 5 lists, 2 are really used, 1 is 
for testing purposes.
A admin of that 2 lists claims that subscription confirmations are not sent 
to the users allthough the checkbox is active (I checked that). For my test 
list the confirmations work for each new user.

Moreover on none of the (5) lists the monthly password reminders are working 
anymore.

I started using mailman with 2.1.2(?) and always upgraded the lists with 
every new release.

Where should I start to look at? I grepped my maillog files (which are on 
the same machine, postfix 2.1.8) but did not find anything.

Thanks, Helmut 



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jul 13 15:50:02 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 06:50:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix virtual domains and mailman
In-Reply-To: <44B602CE.4040403@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402006071306500200783dd9f5d0@msapiro>

Martin Hasselmann wrote:
>
>A former admin has setup Postfix on our servers running with virtual
>domains. As described in here http://workaround.org/articles/ispmail/ he
>configured mailman with alias-maps and virtual maps.
>
>It seems to me that this is an old way of configuring postfix.


You need alias_maps to tell postfix to use
/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases (and /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db).


>My question is: Afaik mailman does not need to work with mysql (where
>all virtual emails, mailadress owners etc. are stored in). How can I
>force postfix to lookup not only in the mysql-db, but also in
>/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases? I have no more ideas! I was pretty sure,
>that everything concerning mailman has to be added to postfix's
>main.cf-variable "virtual_maps" because there isn't another variable
>that seemed applicable for me, too.


See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html> and
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html>. You need
virtual_maps with virtual domains. You need alias_maps in any case.

The former admin's configuration was probably what you need. If you
really think there is a better way, this is a Postfix issue and would
better be addressed on a Postfix list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jul 13 16:10:00 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 07:10:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with long term mailman setup.
In-Reply-To: <002801c6a674$a3a38e60$1000a8c0@intelp43200>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607130710000984a007cd38@msapiro>

Paul Rubin wrote:
> 
>Yesterday at 9:40 in the morning mail just stopped flowing.  Messages came
>were stored in the archive and never sent out.  I tried restarting
>everything and looking for locks, etc.  There were no messages in the log to
>indicate anything out of the ordinary.  
> 
>The only thing I could find strange was the the qfiles/out directory had
>hundreds of file in it.


So apparently your OutgoingRunner either died or somehow quit
processing. What was in Mailman's 'qrunner' log?


>Finally with no other ideas I Upgraded from Mailman 2.1.6 to Mailman 2.1.8
>and mail started flowing.  When 2.1.8 was started there were a large number
>of errors:
> 
>Jul 12 17:46:08 2006 (22768) SHUNTING:
>1152740247.566874+dc88e771186bc6266faeda03363eb2b3a3076cd2
>Jul 12 17:46:08 2006 (22768) Uncaught runner exception: 'str' object has no
>attribute 'get_sender'
>Jul 12 17:46:08 2006 (22768) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 159, in _onefile
>    sender = msg.get_sender()
>AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'get_sender'
>
>After that some mail went out and some was lost.


There was some problem with queue entries. Those that were shunted for
some reason have an unparsed (raw) message instead of a
Mailman.Message.Message object but don't have the _parsemsg flag set
in the message data to indicate this.

The 'lost' messages are probably in the shunt queue. You can examine
these with bin/show_qfiles or bin/dumpdb. and reprocess then with
bin/unshunt, however if they are defective, the error will probably
recur.

 
>Now this morning, after sending half a dozen messages, it appears to be
>happening again.  The seventh message showed up in the archive and has not
>apparently gone anywhere else.


Is it in the out queue. Is OutgoingRunner running?

Check all of Mailman's logs and check if OutgoingRunner is running. You
might try 'bin/mailmanctl stop' followed by 'bin/mailmanctl start'.


>Is there any information from the mailman daily status report that might
>provide any clue to what is happening?


Only the "Queue Directory Contents" listing, but that will just tell
you where the messages are stuck, not why.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jul 13 16:19:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 07:19:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not sending password reminders,
	subscription confirmations
In-Reply-To: <077f01c6a681$93576c90$609b65c1@vpe.de>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607130719430218a007ca65@msapiro>

Helmut Schneider wrote:
>
>I'm using mailman 2.1.8 on OpenBSD. I have 5 lists, 2 are really used, 1 is 
>for testing purposes.
>A admin of that 2 lists claims that subscription confirmations are not sent 
>to the users allthough the checkbox is active (I checked that). For my test 
>list the confirmations work for each new user.


Do you mean the message for the user to confirm before being subscribed
or the welcome message after subscription is completed?

The former is Privacy Options...->Subscription rules->subscribe_policy;
the latter is GeneralOptions->welcome_message.


>Moreover on none of the (5) lists the monthly password reminders are working 
>anymore.


Are the cron jobs running?. Is General Options->send_reminders on for
all the lists.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Jean.Bausch at fujitsu-siemens.com  Thu Jul 13 16:35:17 2006
From: Jean.Bausch at fujitsu-siemens.com (Bausch, Jean)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 16:35:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Missing host name in attachment URL
Message-ID: <DE26E293539224499409D3E333E3367F0418B23C@ABGEX02E.abg.fsc.net>

Hi all,

I have just upgraded my Mailman from 2.1.2 to 2.1.8 hoping to resolve
this problem, but it still persists:

when I have a message with an attachment, the URL to the attachment
doesn't contain the host name:

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: OSD installation guide.doc
Type: application/msword
Size: 134182 bytes
Desc: OSD installation guide.doc
Url :
/pipermail/testlist/attachments/20060713/2adc5366/attachment-0001.doc 

The same truncated URL is included in the mails forwarded to the
subscribers.

I have set in mm_cfg.py:

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'myhost.mch.fsc.net'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'myhost.mch.fsc.net'
DEFAULT_URL       = 'http://myhost.mch.fsc.net/mailman'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

      Jean


From jumper99 at gmx.de  Thu Jul 13 16:57:46 2006
From: jumper99 at gmx.de (Helmut Schneider)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 16:57:46 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not sending password reminders,
	subscription confirmations
References: <PC1740200607130719430218a007ca65@msapiro>
Message-ID: <07c201c6a68c$b3d634f0$609b65c1@vpe.de>

From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
> Helmut Schneider wrote:
>>
>>I'm using mailman 2.1.8 on OpenBSD. I have 5 lists, 2 are really used, 1
>> is  for testing purposes.
>>A admin of that 2 lists claims that subscription confirmations are not
>> sent  to the users allthough the checkbox is active (I checked that).
>> For my test  list the confirmations work for each new user.
>
> Do you mean the message for the user to confirm before being subscribed
> or the welcome message after subscription is completed?

Membership Management-Mass Subscription-"Send welcome messages to new 
subscribees"and "Send notifications of new subscriptions to the list". On 
the test list it works, on the two other lists it doesn't.

> The former is Privacy Options...->Subscription rules->subscribe_policy;
> the latter is GeneralOptions->welcome_message.

Gereral option-notifications. Every checkbox ist selected (YES to all).

>>Moreover on none of the (5) lists the monthly password reminders are
>> working  anymore.
>
> Are the cron jobs running?. Is General Options->send_reminders on for
> all the lists.

cron jobs?! Oh dear, mentioning that I remember that there was a note about 
creting cron jobs at the end of installation. LART on me :( 



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jul 13 17:12:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:12:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Missing host name in attachment URL
In-Reply-To: <DE26E293539224499409D3E333E3367F0418B23C@ABGEX02E.abg.fsc.net>
Message-ID: <PC174020060713081241028122527442@msapiro>

Bausch, Jean wrote:
>
>I have just upgraded my Mailman from 2.1.2 to 2.1.8 hoping to resolve
>this problem, but it still persists:
>
>when I have a message with an attachment, the URL to the attachment
>doesn't contain the host name:
>
>-------------- next part --------------
>A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>Name: OSD installation guide.doc
>Type: application/msword
>Size: 134182 bytes
>Desc: OSD installation guide.doc
>Url :
>/pipermail/testlist/attachments/20060713/2adc5366/attachment-0001.doc 
>
>The same truncated URL is included in the mails forwarded to the
>subscribers.
>
>I have set in mm_cfg.py:
>
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'myhost.mch.fsc.net'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'myhost.mch.fsc.net'
>DEFAULT_URL       = 'http://myhost.mch.fsc.net/mailman'
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)


DEFAULT_URL is a deprecated setting. Don't use it. If you need to
change the form of the URL, the setting to use is DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN,
but the default setting

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'

should be OK in your case so you don't need this in mm_cfg.py. Also
confirm what you have for PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL. The default

PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'http://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'

should be OK here too.

After fixing mm_cfg.py, do 'bin/mailmanctl restart' and then run
fix_url on your list. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.069.htp>.

Actually, I believe the problem must be in your setting for
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL, and you don't need to run fix_url for that change
to be effective, but you do need to restart Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From robertj at linux4free.com  Thu Jul 13 19:00:02 2006
From: robertj at linux4free.com (Rob Jackson)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 11:00:02 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Double unsubscribe messages
Message-ID: <200607131659.k6DGxweT002228@resources.rootsweb.com>

If you put the word unsubscribe in both the subject and the body, I am
getting 2 unsubscribe messages.  Each message has a uniq link to
unsubscribe, but the both get sent out from the same unsubscribe message.
 
If you only put it in the subject, you get a single unsubscribe message.
 
Where would be the best place to start looking as to why this is happening?
 
-Rob
 


From ki at knifecenter.com  Thu Jul 13 19:15:04 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 13:15:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] make install error
In-Reply-To: <200607131659.k6DGxweT002228@resources.rootsweb.com>
Message-ID: <C0DBF7D8.29616%ki@knifecenter.com>

I've installed mailman 2.1.8 and believe that I made a mistake earlier.
I'm trying to reinstall it.

After doing ./configure, I tried to run make install, and here's the error
message I get:

chmod: changing permissions of '/usr/local/mailman/archives/private':
Operation not permitted

The only thing is, I'm logged in as a user that has read/write priveleges
for this folder.

What am I doing wrong?

Ki Song



From robertj at linux4free.com  Thu Jul 13 19:19:41 2006
From: robertj at linux4free.com (Rob Jackson)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 11:19:41 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Double unsubscribe messages
In-Reply-To: <200607131659.k6DGxweT002228@resources.rootsweb.com>
Message-ID: <200607131719.k6DHJbeT007337@resources.rootsweb.com>

 You know what...I just commented out the password check function so it
immediately removes the user without the use of a password so no
confirmation is needed.  This takes care of the issue because the user will
get unsubscribed before the body command can be processed. 

But I did learn that this is how the process is supposed to work.  I just
needed to make sure it wasn't something I did to break it.

-Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+robertj=linux4free.com at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+robertj=linux4free.com at python.org] On Behalf
Of Rob Jackson
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 11:00 AM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Double unsubscribe messages

If you put the word unsubscribe in both the subject and the body, I am
getting 2 unsubscribe messages.  Each message has a uniq link to
unsubscribe, but the both get sent out from the same unsubscribe message.
 
If you only put it in the subject, you get a single unsubscribe message.
 
Where would be the best place to start looking as to why this is happening?
 
-Rob
 
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/robertj%40linux4free.co
m

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From scott_list at mischko.com  Thu Jul 13 19:21:05 2006
From: scott_list at mischko.com (Scott Chapman)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:21:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] To: is being rewritten by some mail agents
In-Reply-To: <p0620070bc0db5fd33d60@[10.0.1.213]>
References: <44B570EE.7040105@mischko.com> <p0620070bc0db5fd33d60@[10.0.1.213]>
Message-ID: <44B68101.6020906@mischko.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> The receiving server is doing address canonicalization, as required by 
> the RFCs.  The fact that your server is not doing the address 
> canonicalization is a serious bug, and should be fixed.
> 
>>  Any thing I can do to fix this?
> 
> The real solution is not to use CNAMEs at all in your DNS, but instead 
> to have the hostnames resolve directly into the appropriate IP 
> addresses, and to make sure that the reverse DNS for that IP address 
> includes all the appropriate hostnames.

How does one implement the real solution when the DNS records that are being 
virtual hosted are from different registrars? Since I only have one IP 
address, the reverse DNS would have to be handled by the outfit I'm hosting 
from, right?  I didn't know you could even have more than one name come up in 
a reverse DNS lookup.  I thought it was always supposed to be the canonical 
name only (if I'm using that term correctly).

I also wonder why the RFC's require address canonicalization in email like 
that.  That seems a holdover from a bygone era.  The reason I have all the 
CNAME's is so that I can move to a different IP address and have to change the 
DNS record in only one place.  I don't mind getting rid of the CNAME's but 
getting the reverse DNS all configured correctly will be interesting.

Scott



From cacities at gmail.com  Thu Jul 13 19:24:03 2006
From: cacities at gmail.com (The League CA Cities)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:24:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing a list
Message-ID: <7c7532580607131024h2bc2023ay21b958f8d079bfd7@mail.gmail.com>

i have tried looking through the FAQs just looking to remove some out of
date lists


From scott_list at mischko.com  Thu Jul 13 19:25:28 2006
From: scott_list at mischko.com (Scott Chapman)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:25:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix virtual domains and mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006071306500200783dd9f5d0@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006071306500200783dd9f5d0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <44B68208.60100@mischko.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Martin Hasselmann wrote:
>> A former admin has setup Postfix on our servers running with virtual
>> domains. As described in here http://workaround.org/articles/ispmail/ he
>> configured mailman with alias-maps and virtual maps.
>>
>> It seems to me that this is an old way of configuring postfix.
> 
> 
> You need alias_maps to tell postfix to use
> /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases (and /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db).
> 
> 
>> My question is: Afaik mailman does not need to work with mysql (where
>> all virtual emails, mailadress owners etc. are stored in). How can I
>> force postfix to lookup not only in the mysql-db, but also in
>> /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases? I have no more ideas! I was pretty sure,
>> that everything concerning mailman has to be added to postfix's
>> main.cf-variable "virtual_maps" because there isn't another variable
>> that seemed applicable for me, too.
> 
> 
> See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html> and
> <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html>. You need
> virtual_maps with virtual domains. You need alias_maps in any case.
> 
> The former admin's configuration was probably what you need. If you
> really think there is a better way, this is a Postfix issue and would
> better be addressed on a Postfix list.
> 

You may want to check out:

http://www.gurulabs.com/goodies/downloads.php [search for mailman on the page]

It enables you to do the trick with no aliases at all.  Very clean and nice.

If I could just get mailman to not even build the alias file....

Scott


From ki at knifecenter.com  Thu Jul 13 19:48:56 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 13:48:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] make install error
In-Reply-To: <C0DBF7D8.29616%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <C0DBFFC8.29626%ki@knifecenter.com>

> I've installed mailman 2.1.8 and believe that I made a mistake earlier.
> I'm trying to reinstall it.
> 
> After doing ./configure, I tried to run make install, and here's the error
> message I get:
> 
> chmod: changing permissions of '/usr/local/mailman/archives/private':
> Operation not permitted
> 
> The only thing is, I'm logged in as a user that has read/write priveleges
> for this folder.
> 
looking at the ls -l of the private folder, I see the following:
drwxrws--- 6 apache mailman 4096 Jul 12 13:10 private

I'm assuming that apache is the Uid and mailman is the Gid

The user that I am logged in as belogs to the mailman group.

Please help!



From ki at knifecenter.com  Thu Jul 13 21:35:20 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 15:35:20 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ScriptAlias and Alias entries in httpd.conf
In-Reply-To: <C0DBFFC8.29626%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <C0DC18B8.29668%ki@knifecenter.com>

I've been trying to update my Apache webserver per the instructions in the
mailman install manual. The lines:

ScriptAlias /mailman/   $prefix/cgi-bin/
and
Alias /pipermail/   $varprefix/archives/public/

are showing up as errors when I try and restart the Apache server.

The error messages are as follows:
The ScriptAlias directive in /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf at line 549 will
probably never match because it overlaps in earlier ScriptAlias

The Alias directive in /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf at line 823 will probably
never match because it overlaps an earlier Alias

ANOTHER probably unrelated error that happens when I am restarting the
Apache server is:

NameVirtualHost 70.88.225.1:80 has no VirtualHosts

I'M STUCK!!



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Thu Jul 13 23:34:35 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 14:34:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using the inject script
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060713143027.06095028@crimson-dragon.com>

Just a quick question about using the inject script to put a message 
in a list queue...

What exactly is the inject script expecting? As in what exactly is 
the format of the file that gets fed into it?

I searched the FAQ and found nothing but a very unhelpful, terse 
description of what the script does but nothing on exactly how to use 
it. I was thinking about using a cron job to call the inject script 
to send a monthly list policy e-mail.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From adamsca at gmail.com  Fri Jul 14 00:16:40 2006
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 15:16:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header/footer attachments
Message-ID: <27572d930607131516q76101272y373a52040a405d60@mail.gmail.com>

I am trying to verify that this is normal behavior for Mailman. I have
been doing this for a number of years and never
realized this. According to a previous post to the list:

>Are you saying that the original posts to the list contain attachments
>that go to the list? If so, the list header and footer will always be
>added as separate MIME parts (attachments).

I interpret this to mean that ANY message with an attachment, sent to
a list that has header and footers appended, will
put the footer and header into an attachment, along with the original
attachment.

I would like to verify that this is true before I pass the information
on to list owners.

-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com


From brian at intercarve.net  Thu Jul 13 23:50:32 2006
From: brian at intercarve.net (Brian Cohen)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 15:50:32 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hit a bug but no error in logs
Message-ID: <44B6C028.1030503@intercarve.net>

Hi there,

When I try to login to the admin interface for one specific mailing list
on my site (the others work ok) I get this:

----------
Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited,
but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.
----------


However when I check the error log on my server (it's
/var/log/mailman/error) there is nothing.

Any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!

-Brian


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Jul 14 00:30:48 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 17:30:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using the inject script
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060713143027.06095028@crimson-dragon.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060713143027.06095028@crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607131530w473f5fd2o388b6e235e597921@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/13/06, Dragon <dragon at crimson-dragon.com> wrote:
> Just a quick question about using the inject script to put a message
> in a list queue...
>
> What exactly is the inject script expecting? As in what exactly is
> the format of the file that gets fed into it?

pdbogen at vmmail:~$ /usr/lib/mailman/bin/inject
Inject a message from a file into Mailman's incoming queue.

Usage: inject [options] [filename]

Options:

    -h / --help
        Print this text and exit.

    -l listname
    --listname=listname
        The name of the list to inject this message to.  Required.

    -q queuename
    --queue=queuename
        The name of the queue to inject the message to.  The queuename must be
        one of the directories inside the qfiles directory.  If omitted, the
        incoming queue is used.

filename is the name of the plaintext message file to inject.  If omitted,
standard input is used.

A list name is required


So, inject --listname=<list> <file>

<file> should be just an email in a text file.. I.e.,
From: user at host
To: <listname>@<listhost>
Subject: Foo

etc. All of the necessary headers. If your mail client has a way to
export a mail, it's that format. AKA, .eml, I guess. Refer to the SMTP
specifications for details on this, perhaps.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Fri Jul 14 00:50:02 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 15:50:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using the inject script
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00607131530w473f5fd2o388b6e235e597921@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060713143027.06095028@crimson-dragon.com>
	<6fbe3da00607131530w473f5fd2o388b6e235e597921@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060713154024.061166b0@crimson-dragon.com>

Patrick Bogen sent the message below at 15:30 7/13/2006:
>On 7/13/06, Dragon <dragon at crimson-dragon.com> wrote:
>>Just a quick question about using the inject script to put a message
>>in a list queue...
>>
>>What exactly is the inject script expecting? As in what exactly is
>>the format of the file that gets fed into it?
>
>pdbogen at vmmail:~$ /usr/lib/mailman/bin/inject
>Inject a message from a file into Mailman's incoming queue.
>
>Usage: inject [options] [filename]
>
>Options:
>
>    -h / --help
>        Print this text and exit.
>
>    -l listname
>    --listname=listname
>        The name of the list to inject this message to.  Required.
>
>    -q queuename
>    --queue=queuename
>        The name of the queue to inject the message to.  The queuename must be
>        one of the directories inside the qfiles directory.  If omitted, the
>        incoming queue is used.
>
>filename is the name of the plaintext message file to inject.  If omitted,
>standard input is used.
>
>A list name is required
>
>
>So, inject --listname=<list> <file>


Yeah, that part I got.

It's not the usage I am concerned with, I can issue the command and 
it seems to accept the file, but then nothing seems to happen. The 
message definitely does not get delivered to the intended list.

My specific question was about what should be in the file that gets injected.

So far it doesn't work with the variations in format I have tried so 
I am not sure what I am missing here.

><file> should be just an email in a text file.. I.e.,
>From: user at host
>To: <listname>@<listhost>
>Subject: Foo
>
>etc. All of the necessary headers. If your mail client has a way to
>export a mail, it's that format. AKA, .eml, I guess. Refer to the SMTP
>specifications for details on this, perhaps.

I tried what I thought was a reasonable approximation of the needed 
headers, essentially I added something like this (followed by the two 
blank lines required for the mail format):

         To: list at domain.com
         From: list-owner at domain.com
         Subject: List Guidelines
         MIME-Version: 1.0
         Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
         Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I also tried it with and without a date header with the date/time 
close to when I tried to inject the message.

In every case, the message just seems to have disappeared. I see no 
evidence of it in any of the qfiles directories.

Would mailman log a failure with the inject script? I suppose I ought 
to go look at the logs to see if anything is there but that will have 
to wait until later this evening.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Jul 14 01:09:02 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 18:09:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using the inject script
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060713154024.061166b0@crimson-dragon.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060713143027.06095028@crimson-dragon.com>
	<6fbe3da00607131530w473f5fd2o388b6e235e597921@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20060713154024.061166b0@crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607131609y334cae72o802d6e595f583a82@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/13/06, Dragon <dragon at crimson-dragon.com> wrote:

> I tried what I thought was a reasonable approximation of the needed
> headers, essentially I added something like this (followed by the two
> blank lines required for the mail format):

snip

> In every case, the message just seems to have disappeared. I see no
> evidence of it in any of the qfiles directories.

Can you check the Mailman logs around the time of when you try to
inject? Specifically, thinks like vette, to see if your message is
getting rejected for some other reason.

Also, it might be worthwhile to try to inject a *real* email, in case
there's something you're forgetting.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Jul 14 01:27:30 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 18:27:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] To: is being rewritten by some mail agents
In-Reply-To: <44B68101.6020906@mischko.com>
References: <44B570EE.7040105@mischko.com>
	<p0620070bc0db5fd33d60@[10.0.1.213]> <44B68101.6020906@mischko.com>
Message-ID: <p0620070ec0dc856e0d4b@[10.0.1.213]>

At 10:21 AM -0700 2006-07-13, Scott Chapman wrote:

>  How does one implement the real solution when the DNS records that are
>  being virtual hosted are from different registrars? Since I only have one
>  IP address, the reverse DNS would have to be handled by the outfit I'm
>  hosting from, right?

Whoever assigned you that IP address should have full control over 
the reverse DNS for that IP address, and they should be the ones to 
make sure that the reverse DNS matches whatever forward hostnames you 
want to point there.

If not, then you're using the wrong hosting provider, and you need to 
find someone else.

>  I didn't know you could even have more than one name come up in a reverse
>  DNS lookup.  I thought it was always supposed to be the canonical name
>  only (if I'm using that term correctly).

There can be more than one "canonical name".  Any name that resolves 
directly to an IP address is considered to be in canonical form.  A 
"CNAME" record is actually an alias that should point at a canonical 
name, so while they chose a very bad name to give it, it actually 
makes a kind of twisted sense if you think about it.

>  I also wonder why the RFC's require address canonicalization in email
>  like that.  That seems a holdover from a bygone era.

It's an old requirement.  It's been around about as long as Internet 
e-mail has existed.  Many, many, many applications have been written 
to this standard, and continue to be in operation.

Would you have everyone on the Internet throw out all their server 
software, just because you don't want to be bothered to adhere to the 
same standard everyone else does?  Would you want to have to throw 
out all your server software, just because someone else decides that 
there is some old rule that they don't want to be bothered to have to 
conform to?

>  The reason I have all the CNAME's is so that I can move to a different
>  IP address and have to change the DNS record in only one place.

Yup.  That's the reason for it.  Problem is, it doesn't play well 
with e-mail or in nameserver records.

Internet e-mail existed long before the DNS did, so they have the 
right to bring with them old requirements (to which old software has 
been written and is still in operation), and nameserver records were 
invented as part of the DNS, so they also have the right to have 
their own rules.

>                                                                   I don't
>  mind getting rid of the CNAME's but getting the reverse DNS all
>  configured correctly will be interesting.

Yup.  That's a problem that everyone has if they want to host 
multiple domains on the same machine.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 14 03:13:42 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 18:13:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not sending password reminders,
	subscription confirmations
In-Reply-To: <07c201c6a68c$b3d634f0$609b65c1@vpe.de>
Message-ID: <PC17402006071318134209374f48e6d3@msapiro>

Helmut Schneider wrote:
>
>Membership Management-Mass Subscription-"Send welcome messages to new 
>subscribees"and "Send notifications of new subscriptions to the list". On 
>the test list it works, on the two other lists it doesn't.


Does the owner receive the owner notification?

Are there any list specific templates in lists/<listname>/<lang>/ for
two lists that don't work?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mardin at comcast.net  Fri Jul 14 03:20:55 2006
From: mardin at comcast.net (mardin at comcast.net)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 01:20:55 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving mailman
Message-ID: <071420060120.10078.44B6F1770009E1420000275E220075109002070B9D0E03@comcast.net>

Mark,

> To change this, you need to have 
> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/' 
> in mm_cfg.py and then run fix_url on all the lists to update them. 

The problem was resolved by your suggestions above.

Thanks very much for your help!
Mardin


-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> 

> mardin at comcast.net wrote: 
> > 
> >But I met a new problem. After I used URL of 
> https://mailman_server/mailman/admin/, I could log in the list successfully. But 
> I could not modify the contents of configurations and do other administration 
> work. When I wanted to submit the changes, I got the following message: 
> > 
> >"Although this page is encrypted, the information you have entered is to be 
> sent over an unencrypted connection and could easily be read by a third 
> party. 
> >Are you sure you want to continue sending this information? -> Continue" 
> > 
> >After I clicked the Continue Botton, nothing changed about the list. What were 
> the problems about the above message? Do you know how to resolve it? 
> 
> I'm not sure I know what ALL the problems are, but my question is are 
> you trying to access Mailman via SSL (i.e. https scheme URLs) or not. 
> If so, it appears that the POST URLs in the admin pages are http, not 
> https. To change this, you need to have 
> 
> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/' 
> 
> in mm_cfg.py and then run fix_url on all the lists to update them. See 
> . 
> 
> If you are not trying to use SSL, then go to 
> http://mailman_server/mailman/admin/ and not to 
> https://mailman_server/mailman/admin/. 
> 
> If you are getting the https URLs because of a redirect in your web 
> server, that is probably causing a loss of the POST data from the 
> form. The above should fix it. See also, 
> . 
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, 
> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan 
> 

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 14 03:22:57 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 18:22:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] make install error
In-Reply-To: <C0DBFFC8.29626%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060713182257009373a83616@msapiro>

Ki Song wrote:
>> 
>> After doing ./configure, I tried to run make install, and here's the error
>> message I get:
>> 
>> chmod: changing permissions of '/usr/local/mailman/archives/private':
>> Operation not permitted
>> 
>> The only thing is, I'm logged in as a user that has read/write priveleges
>> for this folder.
>> 
>looking at the ls -l of the private folder, I see the following:
>drwxrws--- 6 apache mailman 4096 Jul 12 13:10 private
>
>I'm assuming that apache is the Uid and mailman is the Gid
>
>The user that I am logged in as belogs to the mailman group.

'make install' is trying to do

  chmod o+x /usr/local/mailman/archives/private

What happens if you try this as the user that belongs to the mailman
group? If it succeeds, then you can probably complete the 'make
install', but then I wouldn't know why you could do it directly and
'make install' couldn't, and if it fails, I don't know why, but it
isn't a Mailman issue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 14 03:38:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 18:38:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing a list
In-Reply-To: <7c7532580607131024h2bc2023ay21b958f8d079bfd7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607131838010656fdcb3ad1@msapiro>

The League CA Cities wrote:

>i have tried looking through the FAQs just looking to remove some out of
>date lists


If the installation has

OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = Yes

in mm_cfg.py, there will be a 'Delete this mailing list' link under
'Other Administrative Activities' on the web admin interface.

If not, you can use

bin/rmlist listname

to remove the list and keep the archives or

bin/rmlist -a listname

to remove everything, or you can just remove the directories

lists/listname
archives/private/listname
archives/private/listname.mbox

and the corresponding symlinks in archives/public if the archives are
public.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 14 03:40:40 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 18:40:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix virtual domains and mailman
In-Reply-To: <44B68208.60100@mischko.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607131840400765b396e9c5@msapiro>

Scott Chapman wrote:
>
>If I could just get mailman to not even build the alias file....


Put

MTA = None

in mm_cfg.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 14 04:02:37 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 19:02:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ScriptAlias and Alias entries in httpd.conf
In-Reply-To: <C0DC18B8.29668%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006071319023703902973e58b@msapiro>



----- Original Message ---------------

Subject: [Mailman-Users] ScriptAlias and Alias entries in httpd.conf
   From: Ki Song <ki at knifecenter.com>
   Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 15:35:20 -0400
     To: <mailman-users at python.org>

>I've been trying to update my Apache webserver per the instructions in the
>mailman install manual. The lines:
>
>ScriptAlias /mailman/   $prefix/cgi-bin/
>and
>Alias /pipermail/   $varprefix/archives/public/
>
>are showing up as errors when I try and restart the Apache server.


That's because you are suposed to replace $prefix and $varprefix with
their actual values in your installation. Something like

ScriptAlias /mailman/   /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
and
Alias /pipermail/   /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/

if you used the defaults to configure.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 14 04:16:51 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 19:16:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header/footer attachments
In-Reply-To: <27572d930607131516q76101272y373a52040a405d60@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006071319165103282973e55b@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:

>I am trying to verify that this is normal behavior for Mailman. I have
>been doing this for a number of years and never
>realized this. According to a previous post to the list:
>
>>Are you saying that the original posts to the list contain attachments
>>that go to the list? If so, the list header and footer will always be
>>added as separate MIME parts (attachments).
>
>I interpret this to mean that ANY message with an attachment, sent to
>a list that has header and footers appended, will
>put the footer and header into an attachment, along with the original
>attachment.
>
>I would like to verify that this is true before I pass the information
>on to list owners.


Attachment is a very vague word in this context. What happens to list
headers and footers depends on the MIME structure of the message. Most
messages that have what are normally called 'attachments' have a main
MIME type of multipart/mixed. For this type of message, Mailman will
add the header by inserting it in a text/plain sub-part as the first
sub-part of the multipart/mixed message and will add the footer by
inserting it in a text/plain sub-part as the last sub-part of the
multipart/mixed message.

It will not add the header and footer to the 'attachment'. Whether the
header and footer appear as inline text along with the 'message body'
or as separate attachments is entirely a function of the MUA used to
view the message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 14 04:25:19 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 19:25:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hit a bug but no error in logs
In-Reply-To: <44B6C028.1030503@intercarve.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607131925190656df3f94e3@msapiro>

Brian Cohen wrote:
>
>When I try to login to the admin interface for one specific mailing list
>on my site (the others work ok) I get this:
>
>----------
>Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5
>
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
>Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
>traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited,
>but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.
>----------
>
>
>However when I check the error log on my server (it's
>/var/log/mailman/error) there is nothing.


Are you sure that's where Mailman's logs are? Check the setting of
LOG_DIR in mm_cfg.py. If there isn't one, the logs are probably in the
logs/ directory in the same mailman directory as lists/, data/,
archives/, etc.


That said, does anything work for this list? Can you get its listinfo
page or its admindb page? Does it process mail, requests, etc.? If the
answer to all of these is no, the lists/listname/config.pck file is
probably corrupt. The first try is do move it aside, e.g. rename it
config.pck.bad, and thus let Mailman try the config.pck.last which may
be OK.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brian at intercarve.net  Fri Jul 14 07:21:18 2006
From: brian at intercarve.net (Brian Cohen)
Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 23:21:18 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hit a bug but no error in logs
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607131925190656df3f94e3@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200607131925190656df3f94e3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <44B729CE.7020602@intercarve.net>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Brian Cohen wrote:
>> When I try to login to the admin interface for one specific mailing list
>> on my site (the others work ok) I get this:
>>
>> ----------
>> Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5
>>
>> We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>>
>> Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
>> traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited,
>> but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.
>> ----------
>>
>>
>> However when I check the error log on my server (it's
>> /var/log/mailman/error) there is nothing.
> 
> 
> Are you sure that's where Mailman's logs are? Check the setting of
> LOG_DIR in mm_cfg.py. If there isn't one, the logs are probably in the
> logs/ directory in the same mailman directory as lists/, data/,
> archives/, etc.

On my distro, the logs/ directory is symlinked to /var/log/mailman. It's 
definitely the right dir, there's other stuff being logged in the files 
there.

> 
> 
> That said, does anything work for this list? Can you get its listinfo
> page or its admindb page? Does it process mail, requests, etc.? If the
> answer to all of these is no, the lists/listname/config.pck file is
> probably corrupt. The first try is do move it aside, e.g. rename it
> config.pck.bad, and thus let Mailman try the config.pck.last which may
> be OK.
> 

Everything else works: listinfo, admindb, mail processing and requests. 
  Just admin triggers a bug.

-Brian


From tmekdes at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 14 10:27:24 2006
From: tmekdes at yahoo.com (mekdes tesfaye)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 01:27:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <20060714082724.93356.qmail@web34314.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dear Sir;
   
  Thank  you very much for your soon replay. So please answer to me my Question.I am waiting your replay.
   
   
   
  Regards.
   
   
  Mekdes
   
   

 		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free. 

From jumper99 at gmx.de  Fri Jul 14 10:44:16 2006
From: jumper99 at gmx.de (Helmut Schneider)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 10:44:16 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not sending password reminders,
	subscription confirmations
References: <PC17402006071318134209374f48e6d3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <089b01c6a721$b0f392b0$609b65c1@vpe.de>

Hi Mark,

From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
> Helmut Schneider wrote:
>>
>>Membership Management-Mass Subscription-"Send welcome messages to new
>>subscribees"and "Send notifications of new subscriptions to the list". On
>>the test list it works, on the two other lists it doesn't.
>
>
> Does the owner receive the owner notification?

No.

> Are there any list specific templates in lists/<listname>/<lang>/ for
> two lists that don't work?

No.

I have 2 other lists which were not used anymore and checked them, they also 
work fine and notifications are sent. The only difference is that the 
concerned lists (the 2 which aren't sending notifications) contain an 
underscore, but I am quite unsure if this is relevant. 



From david at johmar.com  Fri Jul 14 10:55:22 2006
From: david at johmar.com (david at johmar.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 09:55:22 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footers converted to nuisance text attachments for
	html emails
Message-ID: <004101c6a723$3deca250$d85c8956@computername>

I can't find this in the FAQ, they only cover user-sent attachments.

Our mailman 2.1.5 is correctly adding the footer we set up  
for text emails but for html format ones it adds it as a text 
attachment.  Unfortunately most of our members post in html  
(they know no better and wouldn't know how to change it)  
therefore we keep sending out small attachments to the emails.  
  
I tried 'convert html to text' but that didn't seem to do  
anything.  My preference would be to somehow incorporate the  
footer in the html of the email or failing that just not to  
add the footer to html emails.



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Jul 14 12:39:11 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 05:39:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footers converted to nuisance text attachments
 for html emails
In-Reply-To: <004101c6a723$3deca250$d85c8956@computername>
References: <004101c6a723$3deca250$d85c8956@computername>
Message-ID: <p06200704c0dd24a95ece@[10.0.1.213]>

At 9:55 AM +0100 2006-07-14, <david at johmar.com> wrote:

>  I tried 'convert html to text' but that didn't seem to do
>  anything.  My preference would be to somehow incorporate the
>  footer in the html of the email or failing that just not to
>  add the footer to html emails.

See FAQ 4.39.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From lists.james.edwards at gmail.com  Fri Jul 14 16:15:01 2006
From: lists.james.edwards at gmail.com (james edwards)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 08:15:01 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List does not show on the overview page
Message-ID: <b7f636a60607140715j5c6c839dn9e66773a25daeb90@mail.gmail.com>

I migrated mailman to a new box and everything went fine except one list
does not show on the overview page.
I ran "withlist -l -r fix_url" on the list, as I did with the others, but it
still does not show on the overview of all lists pages.
I am running mailman-2.1.5.1-34.rhel4.3 & the list has a dir at
/var/lib/mailman/lists. If I go directly to the lists url,
the admin interface is there. Any suggestions ?

-- 
James H. Edwards
Network Systems Administrator
Judicial Information Division
jedwards at nmcourts.com


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 14 16:47:09 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 07:47:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hit a bug but no error in logs
In-Reply-To: <44B729CE.7020602@intercarve.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402006071407470900008538b229@msapiro>

Brian Cohen wrote:
>
>Everything else works: listinfo, admindb, mail processing and requests. 
>  Just admin triggers a bug.


And only for one list? And there's nothing in the 'error' log? This is
strange.

Edit the file mailman/scripts/driver. About 30 lines into the file you
will see

STEALTH_MODE = 1

change this to

STEALTH_MODE = 0

You don't have to restart Mailman. That's only required after changes
affecting the queue runners, not the web interface.

After making this change, the error information should display on the
web page. Please report this information, and we can help further.

Once you get the error information and traceback, you can set
STEALTH_MODE back to 1 if you don't want this info displayed in
general.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brian at intercarve.net  Fri Jul 14 16:48:45 2006
From: brian at intercarve.net (Brian Cohen)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 08:48:45 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hit a bug but no error in logs
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006071407470900008538b229@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006071407470900008538b229@msapiro>
Message-ID: <44B7AECD.9020504@intercarve.net>

Ok, cool. Here's the traceback:

Traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 250, in ?
     run_main()
   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 120, in run_main
     print_traceback(logger)
   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 147, in print_traceback
     traceback.print_exc(file=logfp)
   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/traceback.py", line 210, in print_exc
     print_exception(etype, value, tb, limit, file)
   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/traceback.py", line 123, in print_exception
     print_tb(tb, limit, file)
   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/traceback.py", line 68, in print_tb
     line = linecache.getline(filename, lineno)
   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/linecache.py", line 14, in getline
     lines = getlines(filename)
   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/linecache.py", line 40, in getlines
     return updatecache(filename)
   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/linecache.py", line 93, in updatecache
     lines = fp.readlines()
MemoryError


Thanks,

-Brian

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Brian Cohen wrote:
>> Everything else works: listinfo, admindb, mail processing and requests. 
>>  Just admin triggers a bug.
> 
> 
> And only for one list? And there's nothing in the 'error' log? This is
> strange.
> 
> Edit the file mailman/scripts/driver. About 30 lines into the file you
> will see
> 
> STEALTH_MODE = 1
> 
> change this to
> 
> STEALTH_MODE = 0
> 
> You don't have to restart Mailman. That's only required after changes
> affecting the queue runners, not the web interface.
> 
> After making this change, the error information should display on the
> web page. Please report this information, and we can help further.
> 
> Once you get the error information and traceback, you can set
> STEALTH_MODE back to 1 if you don't want this info displayed in
> general.
> 



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 14 17:24:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 08:24:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footers converted to nuisance text attachments
	forhtml emails
In-Reply-To: <004101c6a723$3deca250$d85c8956@computername>
Message-ID: <PC17402006071408245405312b0e7509@msapiro>

david at johmar.com wrote:
>
>I tried 'convert html to text' but that didn't seem to do  
>anything.


convert_html_to_plaintext is only effective if filter_content is Yes.
There have also been issues in the past with some systems with the
default HTML_TO_PLAINTEXT_COMMAND. See for example,
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2003-January/025369.html>
	


>My preference would be to somehow incorporate the  
>footer in the html of the email or failing that just not to  
>add the footer to html emails.


Brad has already referred you to FAQ 4.39 which explains why footers
aren't simply be added to HTML parts.

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 14 17:34:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 08:34:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List does not show on the overview page
In-Reply-To: <b7f636a60607140715j5c6c839dn9e66773a25daeb90@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006071408344100002b0e72e9@msapiro>

james edwards wrote:

>I migrated mailman to a new box and everything went fine except one list
>does not show on the overview page.
>I ran "withlist -l -r fix_url" on the list, as I did with the others, but it
>still does not show on the overview of all lists pages.
>I am running mailman-2.1.5.1-34.rhel4.3 & the list has a dir at
>/var/lib/mailman/lists. If I go directly to the lists url,
>the admin interface is there. Any suggestions ?


Have you checked that Privacy options...->Subscription
rules->advertised is set to Yes?

Are you using virtual hosts, and if so, is this list on a different
virtual host? If so, you need to use the --urlhost option with fix_url.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From adamsca at gmail.com  Fri Jul 14 17:41:40 2006
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 08:41:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing a list
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607131838010656fdcb3ad1@msapiro>
References: <7c7532580607131024h2bc2023ay21b958f8d079bfd7@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200607131838010656fdcb3ad1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <27572d930607140841j484f55f9neffe18902c484a96@mail.gmail.com>

If  mm_cfg.py is set as 'OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = Yes', is there
a way to set the default for 'Also Delete Archives' to 'Yes'. For the
purposes of most of the lists that I administer, they are only used for a
limited period of time and then the subscribers/owners want the whole thing
scrubbed.

I have full access to the installation on the server, and have always
removed lists and archives from the command line on request. However, I have
been thinking of giving list owners the opportunity to delete their own
lists, but I don't want archives left behind.


On 7/13/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> The League CA Cities wrote:
>
> >i have tried looking through the FAQs just looking to remove some out of
> >date lists
>
>
> If the installation has
>
> OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = Yes
>
> in mm_cfg.py, there will be a 'Delete this mailing list' link under
> 'Other Administrative Activities' on the web admin interface.
>
> If not, you can use
>
> bin/rmlist listname
>
> to remove the list and keep the archives or
>
> bin/rmlist -a listname
>
> to remove everything, or you can just remove the directories
>
> lists/listname
> archives/private/listname
> archives/private/listname.mbox
>
> and the corresponding symlinks in archives/public if the archives are
> public.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/adamsca%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>



-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com


From adamsca at gmail.com  Fri Jul 14 17:42:40 2006
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 08:42:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header/footer attachments
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006071319165103282973e55b@msapiro>
References: <27572d930607131516q76101272y373a52040a405d60@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006071319165103282973e55b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <27572d930607140842h6940f0cy7acc25e3cd0e6221@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for your reply.

I think you misunderstood me. I didn't mean that the header and/or footer
was added to other attachments.

Typically, what happens  is that  list subscribers attach a PDF or Word
document, using Outlook or Groupwise mail. All the lists have a standard
footer set by default. Many times they send in HTML format, even when they
think they are sending in plain text, as that is what it appears like to
them. In my experience with Outlook and based on information from previous
list messages here, if a message with PDF or Word attachment is sent in
plain text or HTML to a list with a footer set in Mailman, the message will
come across with the document attached as well as a separate footer
attachment. If no document is attached, regardless of the mail format, the
footer will appear in the message. However, yahoo mail handles it normally
and Thunderbird includes a footer attachment, but also displays it.

I guess I was surprised that I hadn't figured out that it depended on
whether a document was attached.

So, I will put that one to rest.

I also am wondering how much other mailman administrators and list owners
make use of the built-in content filtering. As I understand it, if content
filtering is activated and say, for example,  text/plain is added to 'Remove
message attachments that have a matching content type', any footer that is
attached should be removed. Again, based on the description of
content-filtering, in the 'filter_action' option, "This action is not taken
if after filtering the message still contains content. In that case the
message is always forwarded on to the list membership" means that any
message body would be delivered and only the attached footer would be
dropped.

On 7/13/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Christopher Adams wrote:
>
> >I am trying to verify that this is normal behavior for Mailman. I have
> >been doing this for a number of years and never
> >realized this. According to a previous post to the list:
> >
> >>Are you saying that the original posts to the list contain attachments
> >>that go to the list? If so, the list header and footer will always be
> >>added as separate MIME parts (attachments).
> >
> >I interpret this to mean that ANY message with an attachment, sent to
> >a list that has header and footers appended, will
> >put the footer and header into an attachment, along with the original
> >attachment.
> >
> >I would like to verify that this is true before I pass the information
> >on to list owners.
>
>
> Attachment is a very vague word in this context. What happens to list
> headers and footers depends on the MIME structure of the message. Most
> messages that have what are normally called 'attachments' have a main
> MIME type of multipart/mixed. For this type of message, Mailman will
> add the header by inserting it in a text/plain sub-part as the first
> sub-part of the multipart/mixed message and will add the footer by
> inserting it in a text/plain sub-part as the last sub-part of the
> multipart/mixed message.
>
> It will not add the header and footer to the 'attachment'. Whether the
> header and footer appear as inline text along with the 'message body'
> or as separate attachments is entirely a function of the MUA used to
> view the message.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro < msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 14 17:54:27 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 08:54:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hit a bug but no error in logs
In-Reply-To: <44B7AECD.9020504@intercarve.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402006071408542705783addb07d@msapiro>

Brian Cohen wrote:

>Ok, cool. Here's the traceback:
>
>Traceback:


This should be the traceback of the original error, but the attempt to
produce it produced the MemoryError exception which produced the
second traceback below. This is why the original traceback is not in
the 'error' log.


>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 250, in ?
>     run_main()
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 120, in run_main
>     print_traceback(logger)
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 147, in print_traceback
>     traceback.print_exc(file=logfp)
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/traceback.py", line 210, in print_exc
>     print_exception(etype, value, tb, limit, file)
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/traceback.py", line 123, in print_exception
>     print_tb(tb, limit, file)
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/traceback.py", line 68, in print_tb
>     line = linecache.getline(filename, lineno)
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/linecache.py", line 14, in getline
>     lines = getlines(filename)
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/linecache.py", line 40, in getlines
>     return updatecache(filename)
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/linecache.py", line 93, in updatecache
>     lines = fp.readlines()
>MemoryError


So what we know is we encounter a MemoryError in trying to print the
original traceback, so my guess is that was probably also due to a
MemoryError.

Does the list that fails have a large number of members compared to the
other lists?

MemoryError means the underlying Python interpreter got a denial on an
attempt to allocate more memory (C's malloc() function). Is your web
server enforcing some memory limit on CGI processes?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brian at intercarve.net  Fri Jul 14 17:55:16 2006
From: brian at intercarve.net (Brian Cohen)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 09:55:16 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hit a bug but no error in logs
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006071408542705783addb07d@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006071408542705783addb07d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <44B7BE64.8020101@intercarve.net>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Brian Cohen wrote:
> 
>> Ok, cool. Here's the traceback:
>>
>> Traceback:
> 
> 
> This should be the traceback of the original error, but the attempt to
> produce it produced the MemoryError exception which produced the
> second traceback below. This is why the original traceback is not in
> the 'error' log.
> 
> 
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 250, in ?
>>     run_main()
>>   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 120, in run_main
>>     print_traceback(logger)
>>   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 147, in print_traceback
>>     traceback.print_exc(file=logfp)
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/traceback.py", line 210, in print_exc
>>     print_exception(etype, value, tb, limit, file)
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/traceback.py", line 123, in print_exception
>>     print_tb(tb, limit, file)
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/traceback.py", line 68, in print_tb
>>     line = linecache.getline(filename, lineno)
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/linecache.py", line 14, in getline
>>     lines = getlines(filename)
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/linecache.py", line 40, in getlines
>>     return updatecache(filename)
>>   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/linecache.py", line 93, in updatecache
>>     lines = fp.readlines()
>> MemoryError
> 
> 
> So what we know is we encounter a MemoryError in trying to print the
> original traceback, so my guess is that was probably also due to a
> MemoryError.
> 
> Does the list that fails have a large number of members compared to the
> other lists?

Just two members on this list.

> 
> MemoryError means the underlying Python interpreter got a denial on an
> attempt to allocate more memory (C's malloc() function). Is your web
> server enforcing some memory limit on CGI processes?
> 

Not that I know of...

Thanks!

-Brian


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 14 17:59:29 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 08:59:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing a list
In-Reply-To: <27572d930607140841j484f55f9neffe18902c484a96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607140859290750d2429bcb@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:
>
>I have full access to the installation on the server, and have always
>removed lists and archives from the command line on request. However, I have
>been thinking of giving list owners the opportunity to delete their own
>lists, but I don't want archives left behind.


If owners can delete lists from the web interface, they have the option
of deleting the archives or not. If you want to remove the option and
force archive deletion, you'd have to modify Mailman/Cgi/rmlist.py do
do this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 14 18:06:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 09:06:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hit a bug but no error in logs
In-Reply-To: <44B7BE64.8020101@intercarve.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607140906330218e0da221b@msapiro>

Brian Cohen wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> 
>> Does the list that fails have a large number of members compared to the
>> other lists?
>
>Just two members on this list.


I am puzzled. Is the size of the lists/<listname>/config.pck file for
this list as small as or smaller than the others for lists that work?

If you want to send me off list the config.pck file, I'll see what I
can figure out, but first what does 'ls -l lists/<listname>/' show?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 14 18:12:34 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 09:12:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not sending password reminders,
	subscription confirmations
In-Reply-To: <089b01c6a721$b0f392b0$609b65c1@vpe.de>
Message-ID: <PC17402006071409123407503addb130@msapiro>

Helmut Schneider wrote:
>
>I have 2 other lists which were not used anymore and checked them, they also 
>work fine and notifications are sent. The only difference is that the 
>concerned lists (the 2 which aren't sending notifications) contain an 
>underscore, but I am quite unsure if this is relevant. 


I don't know either, but it seems to be the only distinguishing
characteristic of the lists that fail.

If you look in Mailman's 'smtp' log, can you find any evidence that the
notices were sent?

You might try setting up another test_list with an underscore in the
name and see if that fails too.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brian at intercarve.net  Fri Jul 14 18:16:21 2006
From: brian at intercarve.net (Brian Cohen)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 10:16:21 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hit a bug but no error in logs
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607140906330218e0da221b@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200607140906330218e0da221b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <44B7C355.6020803@intercarve.net>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Brian Cohen wrote:
> 
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>> Does the list that fails have a large number of members compared to the
>>> other lists?
>> Just two members on this list.
> 
> 
> I am puzzled. Is the size of the lists/<listname>/config.pck file for
> this list as small as or smaller than the others for lists that work?

Yes it's a few bytes smaller than a working list that has about 9 members.

> 
> If you want to send me off list the config.pck file, I'll see what I
> can figure out, but first what does 'ls -l lists/<listname>/' show?
> 

drwxrwsr-x 2 root   list 4096 Jul 14 12:00 .
drwxrwsr-x 8 root   list 4096 Jan 20 11:44 ..
-rw-rw---- 1 root   list 3324 Feb 19  2005 config.db
-rw-rw---- 1 root   list 3324 Feb 19  2005 config.db.last
-rw-rw---- 1 list   list 4280 Jul 14 12:00 config.pck
-rw-rw---- 1 list   list 4280 Jul 14 11:28 config.pck.last
-rw-r--r-- 1 root   list  189 Feb 19  2005 handle_opts.html
-rw-rw---- 1 list   list  133 Jul  7 04:08 pending.pck
-rw-rw-r-- 1 apache list   24 Jul 14 01:23 request.pck


Thanks,

-Brian


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 14 18:35:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 09:35:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hit a bug but no error in logs
In-Reply-To: <44B7C355.6020803@intercarve.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402006071409353309683addb209@msapiro>

Brian Cohen wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> 
>> If you want to send me off list the config.pck file, I'll see what I
>> can figure out, but first what does 'ls -l lists/<listname>/' show?
>> 
>
>drwxrwsr-x 2 root   list 4096 Jul 14 12:00 .
>drwxrwsr-x 8 root   list 4096 Jan 20 11:44 ..
>-rw-rw---- 1 root   list 3324 Feb 19  2005 config.db
>-rw-rw---- 1 root   list 3324 Feb 19  2005 config.db.last
>-rw-rw---- 1 list   list 4280 Jul 14 12:00 config.pck
>-rw-rw---- 1 list   list 4280 Jul 14 11:28 config.pck.last
>-rw-r--r-- 1 root   list  189 Feb 19  2005 handle_opts.html
>-rw-rw---- 1 list   list  133 Jul  7 04:08 pending.pck
>-rw-rw-r-- 1 apache list   24 Jul 14 01:23 request.pck


The files config.db and config.db.last are left over from an old
Mailman 2.0.x. When you upgraded to 2.1.x these were converted to the
corresponding config.pck files. I'm sure it has nothing to do with
your problem, but it is a good idea to remove the config.db files
because there is a remote possibility that both config.pck files could
become unusable and Mailman would automatically revert to the outdated
config.db and reconvert it.

If you want to send me the config.pck off list, I'll look at it and see
what I can find.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From catmaxx at berrach.com  Fri Jul 14 18:42:23 2006
From: catmaxx at berrach.com (Catherine Maxwell)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:42:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to disable "lists" display in email
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060714113815.039bec30@aplonis.com>

Hello,

When someone sends a request message to our Mailman server with the 
command "lists" it returns a list of mailing lists on the server -- 
even those lists that are set to private. We would like to either 
find out how to make sure private lists are not returned in the 
message or to disable the "lists" command entirely. How do we do that?

Thanks.

--Catherine



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Jul 14 19:20:17 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:20:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to disable "lists" display in email
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060714113815.039bec30@aplonis.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060714113815.039bec30@aplonis.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607141020h78cfb998iffb2916e0dadca9d@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/14/06, Catherine Maxwell <catmaxx at berrach.com> wrote:
> When someone sends a request message to our Mailman server with the
> command "lists" it returns a list of mailing lists on the server --
> even those lists that are set to private. We would like to either
> find out how to make sure private lists are not returned in the
> message or to disable the "lists" command entirely. How do we do that?

See FAQ 4.24 <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.024.htp>

If this doesn't do what you want, come back and I'll try to help more.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Fri Jul 14 19:36:46 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 10:36:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to disable "lists" display in email
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060714113815.039bec30@aplonis.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060714113815.039bec30@aplonis.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060714102719.0617c9e0@crimson-dragon.com>

Catherine Maxwell sent the message below at 09:42 7/14/2006:
>Hello,
>
>When someone sends a request message to our Mailman server with the
>command "lists" it returns a list of mailing lists on the server --
>even those lists that are set to private. We would like to either
>find out how to make sure private lists are not returned in the
>message or to disable the "lists" command entirely. How do we do that?
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Hmm... that is kind of strange. I didn't think it is supposed to work 
like that but I decided to double-check on my installation to ensure 
I didn't have the same problem. (I have mailman 2.1.5 installed, I 
eventually need to update to 2.1.8, maybe this weekend).

So when I sent the lists command to 
mailman-requests at crimson-dragon.com, it replied with the correct 
information for my server (only the two public lists and not the two 
private ones):

>The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your
>original message.
>
>- Results:
>     Public mailing lists at crimson-dragon.com:
>       1. List name:   Cuisine
>          Description: An e-mail list for anyone interested in food
>          Requests to: cuisine-request at crimson-dragon.com
>
>       2. List name:   Mailman
>          Description: Mailman site list
>          Requests to: mailman-request at crimson-dragon.com
>
>- Unprocessed:
>     end
>
>- Done.


Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 14 19:55:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 10:55:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header/footer attachments
In-Reply-To: <27572d930607140842h6940f0cy7acc25e3cd0e6221@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006071410551002036549d175@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:
>
>I think you misunderstood me. I didn't mean that the header and/or footer
>was added to other attachments.


It wasn't clear to me whether you thought that or not.


>Typically, what happens  is that  list subscribers attach a PDF or Word
>document, using Outlook or Groupwise mail.


Which will normally result in Mailman receiving a message with MIME
structure as follows:

multipart/mixed
    multipart/alternative
        text/plain
        text/html
    application/pdf  (or application/msword)

Mailman will add a footer to this as a separate part and the result
will look like:

multipart/mixed
    multipart/alternative
        text/plain
        text/html
    application/pdf  (or application/msword)
    text/plain  (the footer)


>All the lists have a standard
>footer set by default. Many times they send in HTML format, even when they
>think they are sending in plain text, as that is what it appears like to
>them. In my experience with Outlook and based on information from previous
>list messages here, if a message with PDF or Word attachment is sent in
>plain text or HTML to a list with a footer set in Mailman, the message will
>come across with the document attached as well as a separate footer
>attachment.


Essentially correct although I prefer the term 'MIME part' over
'attachment'


>If no document is attached, regardless of the mail format, the
>footer will appear in the message. However, yahoo mail handles it normally
>and Thunderbird includes a footer attachment, but also displays it.
>
>I guess I was surprised that I hadn't figured out that it depended on
>whether a document was attached.


If the message is just text/plain, Mailman will normally add the footer
to the end if the text/plain message and the result will be a simple
text/plain message with the footer at the end.

However if the message is for example multipart alternative with a
structure like:

multipart/alternative
    text/plain
    text/html

Mailman will add the footer as follows:

multipart/mixed
    multipart/alternative
        text/plain
        text/html
    text/plain  (the footer)

i.e., it will create a multipart/mixed message with the original
message as the first part and the footer as the next part. As you note
above, how that looks when viewed with a particular MUA/email client
depends on the users MUA settings and the MUAs own notions of how this
structure should be rendered.


>So, I will put that one to rest.
>
>I also am wondering how much other mailman administrators and list owners
>make use of the built-in content filtering. As I understand it, if content
>filtering is activated and say, for example,  text/plain is added to 'Remove
>message attachments that have a matching content type', any footer that is
>attached should be removed.


And so will the text/plain message body! 

Also, content filtering can't remove Mailman's headers and footers
because they haven't been added yet at content filtering time (see
below for more).

>Again, based on the description of
>content-filtering, in the 'filter_action' option, "This action is not taken
>if after filtering the message still contains content. In that case the
>message is always forwarded on to the list membership" means that any
>message body would be delivered and only the attached footer would be
>dropped.


No. If filtering removes all the content, there is no message left and
nothing will be delivered.

I think your confusion arises from the notion of 'attachment', which is
an MUA notion, not a MIME notion. Filtering applies to MIME parts, not
just 'attachments'. There is really no way to determine from the MIME
structure of a message which part is the message 'body' and which
parts are 'attachments'.

There is no way in Mailman to filter out just those text/plain parts
which are attachments from those which are the message body.

Besides, this whole discussion is moot because headers and footers are
added after content filtering is completed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 14 20:01:09 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:01:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to disable "lists" display in email
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060714102719.0617c9e0@crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006071411010907036549d368@msapiro>

Dragon wrote:

>Catherine Maxwell sent the message below at 09:42 7/14/2006:
>>Hello,
>>
>>When someone sends a request message to our Mailman server with the
>>command "lists" it returns a list of mailing lists on the server --
>>even those lists that are set to private. We would like to either
>>find out how to make sure private lists are not returned in the
>>message or to disable the "lists" command entirely. How do we do that?
>---------------- End original message. ---------------------
>
>Hmm... that is kind of strange. I didn't think it is supposed to work 
>like that but I decided to double-check on my installation to ensure 
>I didn't have the same problem. (I have mailman 2.1.5 installed, I 
>eventually need to update to 2.1.8, maybe this weekend).
>
>So when I sent the lists command to 
>mailman-requests at crimson-dragon.com, it replied with the correct 
>information for my server (only the two public lists and not the two 
>private ones):

Dragon is correct. The code hasn't changed since 2002 and it only
reports 'advertised' lists with the one exception that if listx is
unadvertised, we show it anyway if you sent the command to
listx-request since you already are aware of that list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From doctorjc1 at comcast.net  Fri Jul 14 20:16:00 2006
From: doctorjc1 at comcast.net (Dr. John Caccavale)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:16:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] implicit destination
Message-ID: <44B7DF60.4040709@comcast.net>

I just cannot seem to get a workable solution to a problem I am having
with Mailman. Although the list is set up to be unmoderated, I am still
getting message to "accept or deny" a message from members. The reason
is always the same: "implicit destination".  I have tried everything but 
nothing works.
Can anyone steer me to an appropriate solution?

John


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - Release Date: 7/14/2006



From ki at knifecenter.com  Fri Jul 14 20:33:05 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:33:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail-gid for Postfix install
Message-ID: <C0DD5BA1.298B7%ki@knifecenter.com>

When installing mailman (using Postfix as the mail server), what should be
the mail-gid option? I'm looking at the main.cf file for postfix and the
setgid-group = postdrop

So, does that mean that when I run the install for mailman, I should set the
following option:

--with-mail-gid=postdrop


Is that correct? If not, where do I find out what the main-gid should be?

Regards,
Ki



From cpz at tuunq.com  Fri Jul 14 20:45:38 2006
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:45:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] implicit destination
In-Reply-To: <44B7DF60.4040709@comcast.net> from "Dr. John Caccavale" at "Jul
	14, 2006 11:16:00 am"
Message-ID: <20060714184539.543777AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Dr. John Caccavale wrote:
> I just cannot seem to get a workable solution to a problem I am having
> with Mailman. Although the list is set up to be unmoderated, I am still
> getting message to "accept or deny" a message from members. The reason
> is always the same: "implicit destination".  I have tried everything but 
> nothing works.

FAQ 1.9 ..  (it's usually because the list was BCC'd on the message)

z!


From ki at knifecenter.com  Fri Jul 14 20:54:41 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:54:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] implicit destination
In-Reply-To: <20060714184539.543777AE@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <C0DD60B1.298C2%ki@knifecenter.com>

Should the files in $prefix/cgi-bin be owned by root:mailman?

Shouldn't it be mailman:mailman?



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 14 20:59:03 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:59:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail-gid for Postfix install
In-Reply-To: <C0DD5BA1.298B7%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006071411590307341ff61ca1@msapiro>

Ki Song wrote:

>When installing mailman (using Postfix as the mail server), what should be
>the mail-gid option? I'm looking at the main.cf file for postfix and the
>setgid-group = postdrop
>
>So, does that mean that when I run the install for mailman, I should set the
>following option:
>
>--with-mail-gid=postdrop
>
>
>Is that correct? If not, where do I find out what the main-gid should be?


This may or may not be correct. I believe that when postfix finds
mailman aliases in an aliases.db file it will run the pipe as the
user:group that owns the file. If you have configured Mailman/Postfix
integration and the aliases are in data/aliases and data/aliases.db,
the group of these files in normally 'mailman' so Mailman should be
configured using --with-mail-gid=mailman (or the default).

I'm not any kind of Postfix expert, so this behavior may depend on
other Postfix configuration settings.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 14 21:04:22 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 12:04:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] file ownership - was: implicit destination
In-Reply-To: <C0DD60B1.298C2%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060714120422068738ab1005@msapiro>

Ki Song wrote:

>Should the files in $prefix/cgi-bin be owned by root:mailman?
>
>Shouldn't it be mailman:mailman?


It doesn't matter. Only the group is important. They must be SETGID and
group 'mailman' (or whatever the mailman group is if not 'mailman').

And please don't start new threads by replying to old messages. It
messes up threading in the archives and may cause your post to be
ignored.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From catmaxx at berrach.com  Fri Jul 14 21:20:40 2006
From: catmaxx at berrach.com (Catherine Maxwell)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:20:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to disable "lists" display in email
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006071411010907036549d368@msapiro>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060714102719.0617c9e0@crimson-dragon.com>
	<PC17402006071411010907036549d368@msapiro>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060714141510.037d2ad8@berrach.com>

Thanks Mark, Patrick and Dragon. That is also the conclusion that I 
have arrived at. It is the listname-request list that was throwing us 
as to why it was appearing.

Now through my testing of that issue I have come up with something 
else that is a puzzle.

I have virtual hosting enabled and setup for 8 different domains in 
the mm_cfg.py. All lists are working well. For the sake of 
explanation, let's say there are four list hosting domains: 
domain1.com, domain2.com, domain3.com and domain4.com.

If I send a "lists" request to mailman-request at domain1.com, I get the 
results for all advertised lists on domain1.com.

If I send a "lists" request to mailman-request at domain2.com, I get the 
results for all advertised lists on domain1.com.

If I send a "lists" request to mailman-request at domain3.com, I get the 
results for all advertised lists on domain1.com.

If I send a "lists" request to mailman-request at domain4.com, I get the 
results for all advertised lists on domain1.com.

My mm_cfg.py is set up as:

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, 'domain1.com')
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST, 'domain1.com')
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, 'domain2.com')
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST, 'domain2.com')
and so on ...

Apparently only giving the results for the first domain in the 
lineup. Is it supposed to be that way or is there something that I am 
missing that is making it so that the request is not being fulfilled 
for the other domains?

--Catherine

At 01:01 PM 7/14/2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>Dragon is correct. The code hasn't changed since 2002 and it only
>reports 'advertised' lists with the one exception that if listx is
>unadvertised, we show it anyway if you sent the command to
>listx-request since you already are aware of that list.



From ki at knifecenter.com  Fri Jul 14 21:21:27 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 15:21:27 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error: You are not authorized to create new mailing
	lists
Message-ID: <C0DD66F7.298E7%ki@knifecenter.com>

I've setup mailman to the letter using the GNU Mailman Installation Manual
(Release 2.1), and I have been getting this error message when trying to
create a new list using: http://mail.knifecenter.com/mailman/create

Error: You are not authorized to create new mailing lists

I have configured the List creator's (authentication) password and entered
it in the last field.

Also, I have tried to manually create a list using a text interface by
ssh'ing into the server, and that looks like it is working. The list has
been created. But I can't see these lists under
http://mail.knifecenter.com/mailman/admin or
http://mail.knifecenter.com/mailman/listinfo

What's going on?



From ki at knifecenter.com  Fri Jul 14 21:27:36 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 15:27:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-request@domain1.com request not processing
Message-ID: <C0DD6867.298FC%ki@knifecenter.com>

I've sent a request email to an existing (I think) list on my mailman
server: mailman-request at mail.knifecenter.com

My postfix server log shows this:
delivered to command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman

however, I am not getting the help request that I asked for sent to the
e-mail address that is requesting this information.

What is happening?



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 14 22:07:36 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 13:07:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to disable "lists" display in email
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060714141510.037d2ad8@berrach.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006071413073600002d75ae44@msapiro>

Catherine Maxwell wrote:
>
>Now through my testing of that issue I have come up with something 
>else that is a puzzle.
>
>I have virtual hosting enabled and setup for 8 different domains in 
>the mm_cfg.py. All lists are working well. For the sake of 
>explanation, let's say there are four list hosting domains: 
>domain1.com, domain2.com, domain3.com and domain4.com.
>
>If I send a "lists" request to mailman-request at domain1.com, I get the 
>results for all advertised lists on domain1.com.
>
>If I send a "lists" request to mailman-request at domain2.com, I get the 
>results for all advertised lists on domain1.com.
>
>If I send a "lists" request to mailman-request at domain3.com, I get the 
>results for all advertised lists on domain1.com.
>
>If I send a "lists" request to mailman-request at domain4.com, I get the 
>results for all advertised lists on domain1.com.
>
>My mm_cfg.py is set up as:
>
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, 'domain1.com')
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST, 'domain1.com')
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, 'domain2.com')
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST, 'domain2.com')
>and so on ...


There are a couple of issues.

First, your mm_cfg.py is all wrong.

If we assume that DEFAULT_URL_HOST is www.domain1.com and
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST is domain1.com and you have similar domain naming
for domain2, etc. and the DEFAULT_*_HOST settings form configure are
correct in Defaults.py, what you need in defaults.py is:

add_virtualhost('www.domain2.com', 'domain2.com')
add_virtualhost('www.domain3.com', 'domain3.com')
etc.

What you have above gives you a VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary with at most
two entries (assuming DEFAULT_URL_HOST  and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST are
different), both of which have values domainx.com where domainx is the
last one.

These entries are ultimately responsible for the values that get put in
the list attribute host_name and the (hidden from the GUI) attribute
web_page_url. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.062.htp>.

You are going to have to correct mm_cfg.py, restart Mailman and run
fix_url with the appropriate --urlhost option on each list in order to
fix them. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp>
and also run bin/fix_url.py for more information.

Now if VIRTUAL_HOSTS_OVERVIEW is on (the default), when you send a
'lists' command to listname-request at ..., the advertised lists you are
going to see are those whose host_name attribute matches the host_name
attribute of the list to which you sent the command regardless of the
domain in the email address you sent the command to.

So when you send the 'lists' command to mailman-request at domainx.com,
the lists you'll see are those whose host_name matches that of the
mailman list (domain1.com) regardless of which domainx.com you send it
to.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 14 23:01:07 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:01:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman-request@domain1.com request not
	processing
In-Reply-To: <C0DD6867.298FC%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006071414010706093addb088@msapiro>

Ki Song wrote:

>I've sent a request email to an existing (I think) list on my mailman
>server: mailman-request at mail.knifecenter.com
>
>My postfix server log shows this:
>delivered to command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman
>
>however, I am not getting the help request that I asked for sent to the
>e-mail address that is requesting this information.
>
>What is happening?


Look in Mailman's 'smtp' log and determine if the response is being
sent. If it is, look in your Postfix log to see what it did with it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 14 23:10:11 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:10:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error: You are not authorized to create new
	mailinglists
In-Reply-To: <C0DD66F7.298E7%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006071414101106253addb09c@msapiro>

Ki Song wrote:

>I've setup mailman to the letter using the GNU Mailman Installation Manual
>(Release 2.1), and I have been getting this error message when trying to
>create a new list using: http://mail.knifecenter.com/mailman/create
>
>Error: You are not authorized to create new mailing lists
>
>I have configured the List creator's (authentication) password and entered
>it in the last field.


See my reply at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-July/052194.html>.
 If you don't understand it, let's try to diagnose the specific
problem rather than your starting over with a new install and winding
up two days later with the same problem.

Also, the information at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp>
about lost POST data due to a redirect may be relevant if you have
redirects in your web browser.


>Also, I have tried to manually create a list using a text interface by
>ssh'ing into the server, and that looks like it is working. The list has
>been created. But I can't see these lists under
>http://mail.knifecenter.com/mailman/admin or
>http://mail.knifecenter.com/mailman/listinfo


For this issue, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.062.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From catmaxx at berrach.com  Fri Jul 14 23:38:24 2006
From: catmaxx at berrach.com (Catherine Maxwell)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:38:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to disable "lists" display in email
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006071413073600002d75ae44@msapiro>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060714141510.037d2ad8@berrach.com>
	<PC17402006071413073600002d75ae44@msapiro>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060714163734.0352dd30@berrach.com>

Thanks Mark. I did as you instructed and all is as it should be. I 
really appreciate the help.

--Catherine



From lists.james.edwards at gmail.com  Sat Jul 15 00:43:28 2006
From: lists.james.edwards at gmail.com (james edwards)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 16:43:28 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List does not show on the overview page
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006071408344100002b0e72e9@msapiro>
References: <b7f636a60607140715j5c6c839dn9e66773a25daeb90@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006071408344100002b0e72e9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <b7f636a60607141543m2326b74doe8a272e0b77420ab@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/14/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
>
> Have you checked that Privacy options...->Subscription
> rules->advertised is set to Yes?


That was it. Thanks.



-- 
James H. Edwards
Network Systems Administrator
Judicial Information Division
jedwards at nmcourts.com


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Sat Jul 15 01:21:54 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 18:21:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] implicit destination
In-Reply-To: <C0DD60B1.298C2%ki@knifecenter.com>
References: <20060714184539.543777AE@mail.tuunq.com>
	<C0DD60B1.298C2%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607141621v37118846sea94c30140f5c85@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/14/06, Ki Song <ki at knifecenter.com> wrote:
> Should the files in $prefix/cgi-bin be owned by root:mailman?
>
> Shouldn't it be mailman:mailman?

This depends on how you ran the configure script, if I understand correctly.

Why was this question attached to a thread about Implicit Destination errors?

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From chad at shire.net  Sat Jul 15 04:37:05 2006
From: chad at shire.net (Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 20:37:05 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] lists stop working
Message-ID: <3B441020-84BB-4448-8300-AB952A1758ED@shire.net>

I have a small mailman (2.1.x) installation with a few lists.  They  
just stopped working the other day.  I did a mailmanctl restart and  
that did not fix it but a stop and then a start did.  I saw nothing  
in the logs to indicate why the lists stopped working.

How does one go about debugging this sort of thing?

Thanks
Chad

---
Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC
Your Web App and Email hosting provider
chad at shire.net





From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jul 15 05:20:05 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 20:20:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] lists stop working
In-Reply-To: <3B441020-84BB-4448-8300-AB952A1758ED@shire.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402006071420200500158bd43514@msapiro>

Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC wrote:

>I have a small mailman (2.1.x) installation with a few lists.  They  
>just stopped working the other day.  I did a mailmanctl restart and  
>that did not fix it but a stop and then a start did.  I saw nothing  
>in the logs to indicate why the lists stopped working.
>
>How does one go about debugging this sort of thing?


Probably one or more of your qrunners stopped. At this point, you can
look at Mailman's qrunner log and possibly see entries about runners
stopping and being restarted until the limit is reached. If so, there
will also be a small bit of information as to why (what signal or
condition) caused the runner to stop. There may also be something in
Mailman's 'error' log from the same time.

If it happens again see items 5 - 8 at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From chad at shire.net  Sat Jul 15 05:25:58 2006
From: chad at shire.net (Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 21:25:58 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] lists stop working
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006071420200500158bd43514@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006071420200500158bd43514@msapiro>
Message-ID: <3E219C6E-4BD7-4CEC-92C7-33045D845A84@shire.net>


On Jul 14, 2006, at 9:20 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC wrote:
>
>> I have a small mailman (2.1.x) installation with a few lists.  They
>> just stopped working the other day.  I did a mailmanctl restart and
>> that did not fix it but a stop and then a start did.  I saw nothing
>> in the logs to indicate why the lists stopped working.
>>
>> How does one go about debugging this sort of thing?
>
>
> Probably one or more of your qrunners stopped. At this point, you can
> look at Mailman's qrunner log and possibly see entries about runners
> stopping and being restarted until the limit is reached. If so, there
> will also be a small bit of information as to why (what signal or
> condition) caused the runner to stop.

Jul 12 16:51:50 2006 (70376) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 5860, sig: None, sts: 1, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1)  
[restarting]
Jul 12 16:51:50 2006 (70376) Qrunner OutgoingRunner reached maximum  
restart limit of 10, not restarting.


> There may also be something in
> Mailman's 'error' log from the same time.

Jul 12 16:51:50 2006 qrunner(5860): Traceback (most recent call last):
Jul 12 16:51:50 2006 qrunner(5860):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/ 
qrunner", line 270, in ?
Jul 12 16:51:50 2006 qrunner(5860):      main()
Jul 12 16:51:50 2006 qrunner(5860):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/ 
qrunner", line 230, in main
Jul 12 16:51:50 2006 qrunner(5860):      qrunner.run()
Jul 12 16:51:50 2006 qrunner(5860):   File "/usr/local/mailman/ 
Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 87, in run
Jul 12 16:51:50 2006 qrunner(5860):      self._cleanup()
Jul 12 16:51:50 2006 qrunner(5860):   File "/usr/local/mailman/ 
Mailman/Queue/OutgoingRunner.py", line 134, in _cleanup
Jul 12 16:51:50 2006 qrunner(5860):      BounceMixin._cleanup(self)
Jul 12 16:51:50 2006 qrunner(5860):   File "/usr/local/mailman/ 
Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 132, in _cleanup
Jul 12 16:51:50 2006 qrunner(5860):      self._register_bounces()
Jul 12 16:51:50 2006 qrunner(5860):   File "/usr/local/mailman/ 
Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 120, in _register_bounces
Jul 12 16:51:50 2006 qrunner(5860):      mlist.registerBounce(addr,  
msg, day=day)
Jul 12 16:51:50 2006 qrunner(5860):   File "/usr/local/mailman/ 
Mailman/Bouncer.py", line 131, in registerBounce
Jul 12 16:51:50 2006 qrunner(5860):      time.strftime('%d-%b-%Y',  
day + (0,)*6))
Jul 12 16:51:50 2006 qrunner(5860): ValueError :  day of year out of  
range



>
> If it happens again see items 5 - 8 at
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
> req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>.

I shall take a look.

thanks
Chad
>

---
Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC
Your Web App and Email hosting provider
chad at shire.net





From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jul 15 05:36:31 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 20:36:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] lists stop working
In-Reply-To: <3E219C6E-4BD7-4CEC-92C7-33045D845A84@shire.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607142036310546d2429b01@msapiro>

Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC wrote:

>Jul 12 16:51:50 2006 qrunner(5860):   File "/usr/local/mailman/ 
>Mailman/Bouncer.py", line 131, in registerBounce
>Jul 12 16:51:50 2006 qrunner(5860):      time.strftime('%d-%b-%Y',  
>day + (0,)*6))
>Jul 12 16:51:50 2006 qrunner(5860): ValueError :  day of year out of  
>range


This is a known incompatibility between Mailman 2.1.5 (and below) and
python 2.4 and up. See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-March/043640.html>
and
<https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=1394696&group_id=103>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From fraktal at gmx.de  Sat Jul 15 12:35:31 2006
From: fraktal at gmx.de (Oliver Gassner)
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 12:35:31 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderating and unmoderating for Newsletters
Message-ID: <44B8C4F3.7050608@gmx.de>

HI,

I have a mailman version 2.1.5 I want to run as a Newsletter thing (I 
have several discusson lists, too).

Now what I want is
* aggregate Mails Daily (as they are delivered by rss2mail)
** that works

* generally disallow members of the list to post there

* generally allow the rss-mail-source to post w/o me having to wave 
through the posts manually

* (I think) the rss-mail-source can/should not be a member of the list 
as it is an outside service

(I think) I set the rss-source to 'non meers who are allowed to post to 
the list' but the system requires me to moderate.

I have poked in the innards of the system and cannot figure out how to 
configure the above.

Any chance?

Thanks

Oliver

PS: If you are interested I can describe the rss2mail setup in a 
seperate post ;)


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Sat Jul 15 16:53:23 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 09:53:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderating and unmoderating for Newsletters
In-Reply-To: <44B8C4F3.7050608@gmx.de>
References: <44B8C4F3.7050608@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607150753t5af46d9bm36d2fe1265d6f626@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/15/06, Oliver Gassner <fraktal at gmx.de> wrote:
> I have a mailman version 2.1.5 I want to run as a Newsletter thing (I
> have several discusson lists, too).
You should 'probably' upgrade to 2.1.8.

> * aggregate Mails Daily (as they are delivered by rss2mail)
digests

> * generally disallow members of the list to post there
Privacy Options > Sender Filters > default_member_moderation to Yes
and member_moderation_action to whatever you want (Hold if you still
want to see their attempts, Reject if you want them to know it failed,
Discard if you want to silently drop the messages. I believe Reject is
the Correct answer, in this case.)

Note that you'll have to go in and manually set all members to be
moderated. You can do this at the command line somehow, I'm sure, but
I don't know how. If you have a bunch of members, someone here will
probably post the way to do it at command-line.

> * generally allow the rss-mail-source to post w/o me having to wave
> through the posts manually
Same screen as above, add sender address to accept_these_nonmembers

Alternatively, if you can coerce rss-mail-source ot include an
'Approved: <list password>' header in its submissions, that'll work,
too. This is a better solution, because it can't be 'spoofed'. (I.e.,
in theory, anyone can send an email and claim it came from whatever
rss-mail-source comes from.)

> * (I think) the rss-mail-source can/should not be a member of the list
> as it is an outside service
That's fine; see above.

> (I think) I set the rss-source to 'non meers who are allowed to post to
> the list' but the system requires me to moderate.
Is emergency moderation turned on? What, exactly, did you put in
accept_these_nonmembers? (If that is, in fact, what you set...) What
email address is rss-mail-source coming from?

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From catmaxx at berrach.com  Sat Jul 15 17:20:57 2006
From: catmaxx at berrach.com (Catherine Maxwell)
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:20:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderating and unmoderating for Newsletters
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00607150753t5af46d9bm36d2fe1265d6f626@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <44B8C4F3.7050608@gmx.de>
	<6fbe3da00607150753t5af46d9bm36d2fe1265d6f626@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060715101834.0344de50@berrach.com>

At 09:53 AM 7/15/2006, Patrick Bogen wrote:
>Note that you'll have to go in and manually set all members to be
>moderated. You can do this at the command line somehow, I'm sure, but
>I don't know how. If you have a bunch of members, someone here will
>probably post the way to do it at command-line.

You can do that in the control panel too. Go to Membership 
Management, toward the bottom of the page see "Set everyone's 
moderation bit, including those members not currently visible" set 
that to On and click the Set button.

--Catherine 



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Sat Jul 15 17:25:54 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 10:25:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderating and unmoderating for Newsletters
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060715101834.0344de50@berrach.com>
References: <44B8C4F3.7050608@gmx.de>
	<6fbe3da00607150753t5af46d9bm36d2fe1265d6f626@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20060715101834.0344de50@berrach.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607150825o6c5948bbs857458c67ab8f0de@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/15/06, Catherine Maxwell <catmaxx at berrach.com> wrote:
> You can do that in the control panel too. Go to Membership
> Management, toward the bottom of the page see "Set everyone's
> moderation bit, including those members not currently visible" set
> that to On and click the Set button.

Huzzah.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jul 15 18:24:49 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 09:24:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderating and unmoderating for Newsletters
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00607150753t5af46d9bm36d2fe1265d6f626@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060715092449039067b54997@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
>Note that you'll have to go in and manually set all members to be
>moderated. You can do this at the command line somehow, I'm sure, but
>I don't know how. If you have a bunch of members, someone here will
>probably post the way to do it at command-line.


On the admin Membership Management page, scroll down to "Additional
Member Tasks", click "On" under "Set everyone's moderation bit,
including those members not currently visible" and click the "Set"
button.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From fraktal at gmx.de  Sat Jul 15 23:12:13 2006
From: fraktal at gmx.de (Oliver Gassner)
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 23:12:13 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderating and unmoderating for Newsletters
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00607150753t5af46d9bm36d2fe1265d6f626@mail.gmail.com>
References: <44B8C4F3.7050608@gmx.de>
	<6fbe3da00607150753t5af46d9bm36d2fe1265d6f626@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44B95A2D.1070507@gmx.de>

Patrick Bogen schrieb:

 >> (I think) I set the rss-source to 'non meers who are allowed to post to
 >> the list' but the system requires me to moderate.

 > Is emergency moderation turned on? What, exactly, did you put in
 > accept_these_nonmembers? (If that is, in fact, what you set...) What
 > email address is rss-mail-source coming from?
 >

The adress is rss at rssfwd.com (a cool service ;) )

I put this adress and others (my Mailadresses so that I can post) below 
each other one line each.

Emergency moderation is off.

As far as I have (had!) I have exactly the setup you described I'll see 
what happens.


The password in header option is not given. I once had the problem that 
a spammer with my sending adress posted to the list. But this has only 
happened once in six years or so. So after that I even moderated myself 
;) But with te new setup this would not work when I am gone...

OK I'll see and ask again if it does not work ;)

Thanks.


From lists at lists.schubbe.org  Sun Jul 16 02:23:17 2006
From: lists at lists.schubbe.org (Til Schubbe)
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 02:23:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem creating mailinglist
Message-ID: <20060716002317.GH14941@schubbi-net.local>

Hello,

I created the mailing list 'test' by using the web interface. As a
confirmation I get:

| You have successfully created the mailing list test [...]

But after that it provides 2 buggy links without a slash:
http://lists.royal-bonn.de/cgi-bin/mailmanlistinfo/test
                                          ^
http://lists.royal-bonn.de/cgi-bin/mailmanadmin/test
                                          ^

Earlier I have added
---->8----
ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/
Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
---->8----
to /etc/apache/httpd.conf.

Why do the links omit the slash?


My second problem: When I invoke
http://lists.royal-bonn.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/test

and subscribe my email-address, I get the confirmation request.
Replying to it results in the following:

| <test-request at lists.royal-bonn.de>: host
| lists.royal-bonn.de[193.138.180.4]
|     said: 550 <test-request at lists.royal-bonn.de>: Recipient address
| rejected:
|     User unknown in virtual mailbox table (in reply to RCPT TO
| command)

My /etc/postfix/main.cf contains this:
owner_request_special = no
recipient_delimiter = +
virtual_mailbox_domains =
  [...]
  lists.royal-bonn.de
virtual_alias_maps =
  hash:/etc/postfix/virtual_alias_maps
  hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
alias_maps =
  hash:/etc/aliases
  hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
alias_database =
  hash:/etc/aliases
  hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases

/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases contains:
[...]
test-request:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request test"
[...]

I invoked 'postalias /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases' and
'postfix reload'.

Why doesn't postfix accept a mail addressed to
test-request at lists.royal-bonn.de?

I read the specific parts of
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/
but it didn't help me.

I'm running Debian stable with apache 1.3.33, mailman 2.1.5 and
postfix 2.1.5.

TIA
Til


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Sun Jul 16 02:57:58 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 19:57:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderating and unmoderating for Newsletters
In-Reply-To: <44B95A2D.1070507@gmx.de>
References: <44B8C4F3.7050608@gmx.de>
	<6fbe3da00607150753t5af46d9bm36d2fe1265d6f626@mail.gmail.com>
	<44B95A2D.1070507@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607151757t3c2353a3o33e7a2b2bc4c10d2@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/15/06, Oliver Gassner <fraktal at gmx.de> wrote:
> The adress is rss at rssfwd.com (a cool service ;) )
>
> I put this adress and others (my Mailadresses so that I can post) below
> each other one line each.
>
> Emergency moderation is off.
>
> As far as I have (had!) I have exactly the setup you described I'll see
> what happens.

You can also check your 'vette' logs to see why, exactly, the messages
in question are being held.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jul 16 03:08:14 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 18:08:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem creating mailinglist
In-Reply-To: <20060716002317.GH14941@schubbi-net.local>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607151808140468701e7302@msapiro>

Til Schubbe wrote:
>
>I created the mailing list 'test' by using the web interface. As a
>confirmation I get:
>
>| You have successfully created the mailing list test [...]
>
>But after that it provides 2 buggy links without a slash:
>http://lists.royal-bonn.de/cgi-bin/mailmanlistinfo/test
>                                          ^
>http://lists.royal-bonn.de/cgi-bin/mailmanadmin/test
>                                          ^
>
>Earlier I have added
>---->8----
>ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/
>Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
>---->8----
>to /etc/apache/httpd.conf.
>
>Why do the links omit the slash?


Bacause when you overrode DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN in mm_cfg.py with

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/cgi-bin/mailman'

you ommitted the trailing slash. It should be

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/cgi-bin/mailman/'

However, with the ScriptAlias that you have above, you don't want to
change DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN at all. You want it to be the default of

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'

so your URLs will be like
http://lists.royal-bonn.de/mailman/listinfo/test




>My second problem: When I invoke
>http://lists.royal-bonn.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/test
>
>and subscribe my email-address, I get the confirmation request.
>Replying to it results in the following:
>
>| <test-request at lists.royal-bonn.de>: host
>| lists.royal-bonn.de[193.138.180.4]
>|     said: 550 <test-request at lists.royal-bonn.de>: Recipient address
>| rejected:
>|     User unknown in virtual mailbox table (in reply to RCPT TO
>| command)
>
>My /etc/postfix/main.cf contains this:
>owner_request_special = no
>recipient_delimiter = +
>virtual_mailbox_domains =
>  [...]
>  lists.royal-bonn.de
>virtual_alias_maps =
>  hash:/etc/postfix/virtual_alias_maps
>  hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
>alias_maps =
>  hash:/etc/aliases
>  hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
>alias_database =
>  hash:/etc/aliases
>  hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases


The only place you want 'hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases' is in
alias_maps. See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html>

>
>/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases contains:
>[...]
>test-request:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request test"
>[...]
>
>I invoked 'postalias /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases' and
>'postfix reload'.
>
>Why doesn't postfix accept a mail addressed to
>test-request at lists.royal-bonn.de?
>
>I read the specific parts of
>http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/
>but it didn't help me.


Well, it specifically says NOT to put the path to your mailman aliases
in your alias_database variable. Also, unless you are using Postfix
virtual domains, you dont want any Mailman stuff in virtual_maps either

If you are using Postfix virtual domains, the thing you want in
virtual_maps is the path to Mailman's 'virtual-mailman' file.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jul 16 03:13:14 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2006 18:13:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem creating mailinglist
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607151808140468701e7302@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607151813140000f0646e2e@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>Bacause when you overrode DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN in mm_cfg.py with
>
>DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/cgi-bin/mailman'
>
>you ommitted the trailing slash. It should be
>
>DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/cgi-bin/mailman/'
>
>However, with the ScriptAlias that you have above, you don't want to
>change DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN at all. You want it to be the default of
>
>DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
>
>so your URLs will be like
>http://lists.royal-bonn.de/mailman/listinfo/test


Also, after changing or removing DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN in mm_cfg.py, you
will have to run fix_url to fix any existing lists. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.069.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hansen at rc.org  Sun Jul 16 17:41:54 2006
From: hansen at rc.org (Allan Hansen)
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 08:41:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] text/html problem
Message-ID: <p06230903c0e00a32f7dc@[10.0.1.4]>

Mailman Gurus,

One of my list members is sending messages to one of my list as follows:

MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/html; format=flowed
<x-html><!x-stuff-for-pete base="" src="" id="0" charset="iso-8859-1/macintosh"><html>...

At first, the message was rejected as having an unacceptable content. Adding 
text/html to the list of 'pass_mime_types' got her past that rejection.

But now, while the message now got through, the message contents did not.

Other text/html messages are passing through, but with charset="" instead, so I assume
that that might be part of the problem.



The settings as they appear in the 'Content filtering' section are:

Filter? 
Yes

Remove attachments of matching content type: 
None

Remove attachments not matching content type:
multipart/mixed
multipart/alternative
text/plain
text/html

Convert text/html to plain text:
Yes

Action:
Reject

Mailman 2.1.5 on OS X Server

Thanks in advance for any hints (yes, I searched for text/html,
charset and iso-8859-1 in the archive, but found only stuff releated to
footers.

Allan

-- 
 _________________________________________________________________
| Allan Hansen, Ph.D.                                             |
|    P.O. Box 2423, Cypress, CA 90630, U.S.A.                     |
|                                                                 |
| Work:                              Home:                        |
| Phone: +1-714/952-6015             +1-714/875-8870              |
| Fax:   +1-714/952-6746                                          |
| Email: allan.hansen at ugs.com        hansen at rc.org                |
| WWW:   http://www.ugs.com          http://www.rc.org/           |
|                                                                 |
|_Anything is possible with the right tools and right information_|


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jul 16 19:10:14 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 10:10:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] text/html problem
In-Reply-To: <p06230903c0e00a32f7dc@[10.0.1.4]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607161010140734978e020c@msapiro>

Allan Hansen wrote:
>
>One of my list members is sending messages to one of my list as follows:
>
>MIME-version: 1.0
>Content-type: text/html; format=flowed
><x-html><!x-stuff-for-pete base="" src="" id="0" charset="iso-8859-1/macintosh"><html>...
>
>At first, the message was rejected as having an unacceptable content. Adding 
>text/html to the list of 'pass_mime_types' got her past that rejection.
>
>But now, while the message now got through, the message contents did not.

If you are quoting the message exactly, it is defective as it does not
have an empty line separating the headers from the body. If there is
in fact an empty line as in

MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/html; format=flowed

<x-html><!x-stuff-for-pete base="" src="" id="0"
charset="iso-8859-1/macintosh"><html>...

Then the content should be in the raw message sent from the list, even
if some MUA doesn't show it.

Just my .02, but I think a better solution is to continue to strip html
and teach your member to post plain text.
<http://www.expita.com/nomime.html> may help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lists at lists.schubbe.org  Sun Jul 16 19:51:33 2006
From: lists at lists.schubbe.org (Til Schubbe)
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 19:51:33 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [SOLVED] Problem creating mailinglist
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607151808140468701e7302@msapiro>
References: <20060716002317.GH14941@schubbi-net.local>
	<PC1740200607151808140468701e7302@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060716175133.GG24066@schubbi-net.local>

* On 15.07. Mark Sapiro (msapiro at value.net) muttered:

> Til Schubbe wrote:

> >Why do the links omit the slash?
> 
> Bacause when you overrode DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN in mm_cfg.py with
> 
> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/cgi-bin/mailman'

Yes, you're right.

> The only place you want 'hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases' is in
> alias_maps. See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html>

The first time I did it, it didn't work.  Don't know what went wrong.
Now it works.

> If you are using Postfix virtual domains, the thing you want in
> virtual_maps is the path to Mailman's 'virtual-mailman' file.

That's it.

Thanks a lot!

Regards
Til


From hansen at rc.org  Mon Jul 17 04:31:01 2006
From: hansen at rc.org (Allan Hansen)
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 19:31:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] text/html problem
Message-ID: <p06230914c0e0a6c5aa11@[10.0.1.4]>

Aha! My installation didn't have Lynx. I now have installed it and pointed
mm_cfg.py at the right program. I have notified my subscriber of this.
I'll report back if it works (I could not get my own mail client to
send the same kind of mail she did, but when I tried, it still had the
xhtml stuff.

Allan

>From Mark Sapiro:
>
>It seems you have "convert html to plain text" On in content filtering.
>The body is getting lost in this process. I don't know why. I tried
>"converting" the body of the second message with both lynx and links
>and it worked for me. What, if anything, do you have in mm_cfg.py for
>HTML_TO_PLAIN_TEXT_COMMAND? If you have nothing in mm_cfg.py, the
>default is
>
>HTML_TO_PLAIN_TEXT_COMMAND = '/usr/bin/lynx -dump %(filename)s'
>
>-- 
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
-- 
 _________________________________________________________________
| Allan Hansen, Ph.D.                                             |
|    P.O. Box 2423, Cypress, CA 90630, U.S.A.                     |
|                                                                 |
| Work:                              Home:                        |
| Phone: +1-714/952-6015             +1-714/875-8870              |
| Fax:   +1-714/952-6746                                          |
| Email: allan.hansen at ugs.com        hansen at rc.org                |
| WWW:   http://www.ugs.com          http://www.rc.org/           |
|                                                                 |
|_Anything is possible with the right tools and right information_|


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jul 17 05:05:31 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 20:05:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] text/html problem
In-Reply-To: <p06230914c0e0a6c5aa11@[10.0.1.4]>
Message-ID: <PC174020060716200531098497f69dd7@msapiro>

Allan Hansen wrote:

>Aha! My installation didn't have Lynx. I now have installed it and pointed
>mm_cfg.py at the right program. I have notified my subscriber of this.
>I'll report back if it works (I could not get my own mail client to
>send the same kind of mail she did, but when I tried, it still had the
>xhtml stuff.


There is another issue with 'convert html to plain text' and Mailman
prior to 2.1.7. The result may be garbled if the original HTML part
was quoted-printable or base64 encoded. This is bug
1367783<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1367783&group_id=103&atid=100103>,
fixed in 2.1.7.

(The sample you sent me off list was 8bit encoded and thus would be OK
even prior to 2.1.7)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From prasanta.baruah at gmail.com  Mon Jul 17 11:55:13 2006
From: prasanta.baruah at gmail.com (Prasanta Baruah)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:25:13 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug or
Message-ID: <2e401ffa0607170255yc293b4dgace96970267b707@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,
We have mailman installed in our machine and that has been working
fine. Recently there was a post in our list regarding a certain topic
and what seemed interesting to me is that the mail was dated 16th July
18:34:39 hrs, on the daily digest while on the archives it appeared on
the 17th July 00:04:39 hrs. I checked the server's system date also
which is fine. Now the question is how come the same mail have two
dates. Is it because of the timezone set by the user or there is some
bug in mailman? I ran through this list archives and found out that
there are archives for dates which are far in the future. Is this a
bug or what?

-- 
Prasanta
http://assam-glug.org
http://gnowledge.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gnowsys-dev

:-) [ Life was a funny thing that happened to me on the way to the grave ] (-:


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jul 17 18:44:18 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 09:44:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug or
In-Reply-To: <2e401ffa0607170255yc293b4dgace96970267b707@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607170944180265b2c2ac3b@msapiro>

Prasanta Baruah wrote:

>We have mailman installed in our machine and that has been working
>fine. Recently there was a post in our list regarding a certain topic
>and what seemed interesting to me is that the mail was dated 16th July
>18:34:39 hrs, on the daily digest while on the archives it appeared on
>the 17th July 00:04:39 hrs. I checked the server's system date also
>which is fine. Now the question is how come the same mail have two
>dates.


The time in the message header is in whatever time zone was put there
by the user or the user's MUA. The timezone in the archives is always
server local time, but both should actually be the same time. For
example the Date: header in your post to which I'm replying is

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:25:13 +0530

and the timestamp in the pipermail archive is

Mon Jul 17 11:55:13 CEST 2006

Since CEST is +0200, these are both the same time.


>Is it because of the timezone set by the user or there is some
>bug in mailman?


It's the user's timezone.


>I ran through this list archives and found out that
>there are archives for dates which are far in the future. Is this a
>bug or what?


Those are very old posts that had wildly out of range dates. This issue
is addressed in current Mailman via the settings
ARCHIVER_CLOBBER_DATE_POLICY and ARCHIVER_ALLOWABLE_SANE_DATE_SKEW.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From william.twomey at gmail.com  Mon Jul 17 20:20:59 2006
From: william.twomey at gmail.com (Will Twomey)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:20:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No such list
Message-ID: <5e073d110607171120i49e73782hb29b06e604b12b68@mail.gmail.com>

I was trying to rename my list, as per http://www.list.org/faq.html
(last question on that page).

It wasn't working, and I figured I'd just use forwardings (postfix +
mysql setup).

I went back (find /var/lib/mailman | grep newlistname) and changed
everything back (including removing the " RedirectMatch permanent"
from httpd.conf in apache2).

However, after restarting mailman/postfix/apache2 I find that I cannot
access my list.

Going to http://domain.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/list tries to send me
to http://domain.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/1stCDDems

I've tried genaliases, but no luck.

Does anyone know what could be up?
(http://domain.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/list works)

I figured it was something wrong with apache; are 'RedirectMatch
permanent' fields really permanent, ever after being removed and the
server being reloaded? If so, how can I remove them?

Thanks for any help you can offer. :)

-Will


From Luis.Talora at iesa.com.br  Mon Jul 17 20:21:16 2006
From: Luis.Talora at iesa.com.br (Luis Fernando C. Talora)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:21:16 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lost admin password
Message-ID: <33890CBC7E2B00458D4D486A552DA2C104FD6BE6@svnt8-20.inepar.com.br>

Friends,
 
I know it?s probably a dummy question, but I?ve lost the admin password for
a test list I?ve created. How can I change that password?
 
Thanks a lot!
 
Regards,
 
Lu?s Talora

-- 
Esta mensagem foi verificada pelo sistema de antiv?rus e
 acredita-se estar livre de perigo.



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jul 17 21:21:59 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:21:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No such list
In-Reply-To: <5e073d110607171120i49e73782hb29b06e604b12b68@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006071712215906568a00d28b@msapiro>

Will Twomey wrote:

>I was trying to rename my list, as per http://www.list.org/faq.html
>(last question on that page).


This FAQ is for Mailman 2.0.x. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.070.htp>.


>It wasn't working, and I figured I'd just use forwardings (postfix +
>mysql setup).
>
>I went back (find /var/lib/mailman | grep newlistname) and changed
>everything back (including removing the " RedirectMatch permanent"
>from httpd.conf in apache2).


Note that this redirect is just so you can continue to access the list
via the old name after you've renamed it and the old name no longer
exists as an actual list.


>However, after restarting mailman/postfix/apache2 I find that I cannot
>access my list.
>
>Going to http://domain.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/list tries to send me
>to http://domain.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/1stCDDems
>
>I've tried genaliases, but no luck.


genaliases is only for the MTA, it has nothing to do with the web
interface.


>Does anyone know what could be up?
>(http://domain.com/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/list works)


Then you've successfully removed the redirect from Apache.


>I figured it was something wrong with apache; are 'RedirectMatch
>permanent' fields really permanent, ever after being removed and the
>server being reloaded? If so, how can I remove them?


No, but your browser or some proxy might remember them. Try accessing
from a different machine or browser that hadn't accessed the page with
the redirect in effect.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jul 17 21:25:35 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:25:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lost admin password
In-Reply-To: <33890CBC7E2B00458D4D486A552DA2C104FD6BE6@svnt8-20.inepar.com.br>
Message-ID: <PC17402006071712253502188a00d0bd@msapiro>

Luis Fernando C. Talora wrote:
>
>I know it's probably a dummy question, but I've lost the admin password for
>a test list I've created. How can I change that password?


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.008.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jrlamar at owu.edu  Mon Jul 17 21:31:18 2006
From: jrlamar at owu.edu (Jason LaMar)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:31:18 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Quick spam regex question
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607170944180265b2c2ac3b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C0E15DC6.1B510%jrlamar@owu.edu>

If I wanted to set up my Mailman spam filter to only accept list submissions
for approval from *@fubar.com (for example) -- and automatically discard
messages sent from any other domain -- what would be the easiest way to set
that up in the spam filter rules?



Thanks,

Jason

_________________________

Jason LaMar
Director of Information Services
Ohio Wesleyan University | Delaware, OH 43015
AIM/Yahoo IM: jasonrlamar | MSN/Google Talk: jasonrlamar at gmail.com
Tel: 740-368-3131 | Fax: 740-368-3272 | Web: http://www.owu.edu/




From ki at knifecenter.com  Mon Jul 17 21:49:01 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:49:01 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ScriptAlias and Alias Entries in httpd.conf
Message-ID: <C0E161EC.29F0C%ki@knifecenter.com>

I'm having trouble with the ScriptAlias and Alias settings in the httpd.conf
file.

Basically, I added the following lines to my Apache server's httpd.conf
file:
ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/

When I try and restart the Apache server, however, these errors show up:

The ScriptAlias directive in /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf at line 1013
will probably never match because it overlaps an earlier ScriptAlias.

The Alias directive in /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf at line 1014
will probably never match because it overlaps an earlier Alias.


I searched through the httpd.conf file and couldn't find another reference
to the ScripAlias or Alias directives for these directories.

What's going on?



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jul 17 22:06:12 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:06:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ScriptAlias and Alias Entries in httpd.conf
In-Reply-To: <C0E161EC.29F0C%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060717130612042121316eb1@msapiro>

Ki Song wrote:
>
>Basically, I added the following lines to my Apache server's httpd.conf
>file:
>ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
>Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/
>
>When I try and restart the Apache server, however, these errors show up:
>
>The ScriptAlias directive in /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf at line 1013
>will probably never match because it overlaps an earlier ScriptAlias.
>
>The Alias directive in /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf at line 1014
>will probably never match because it overlaps an earlier Alias.
>
>
>I searched through the httpd.conf file and couldn't find another reference
>to the ScripAlias or Alias directives for these directories.
>
>What's going on?


Try looking for /etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf or something similar,
and/or look in httpd.conf for 'Include' directives.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ki at knifecenter.com  Mon Jul 17 22:29:31 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 16:29:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error: You are not authorized to create
	new	mailinglists
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006071414101106253addb09c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C0E16B6B.29F29%ki@knifecenter.com>

>> I've setup mailman to the letter using the GNU Mailman Installation Manual
>> (Release 2.1), and I have been getting this error message when trying to
>> create a new list using: http://mail.knifecenter.com/mailman/create
>> 
>> Error: You are not authorized to create new mailing lists
>> 
>> I have configured the List creator's (authentication) password and entered
>> it in the last field.
> 
> 
> See my reply at
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-July/052194.html>.
> If you don't understand it, let's try to diagnose the specific
> problem rather than your starting over with a new install and winding
> up two days later with the same problem.
> 
> Also, the information at
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp>
> about lost POST data due to a redirect may be relevant if you have
> redirects in your web browser.

I've looked at those links and tried to see if any of these applied to my
particular situation. AFAIK, they do not apply. I am not trying to access
mailman via an SSL connection. I have english as my default installation.
I still get the error: You are not authorized to create new mailing lists.

...



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jul 17 22:51:03 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:51:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Quick spam regex question
In-Reply-To: <C0E15DC6.1B510%jrlamar@owu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607171351030312915fa13b@msapiro>

Jason LaMar wrote:

>If I wanted to set up my Mailman spam filter to only accept list submissions
>for approval from *@fubar.com (for example) -- and automatically discard
>messages sent from any other domain -- what would be the easiest way to set
>that up in the spam filter rules?

This is complicated by the fact that prior to Mailman 2.1.7,
header_filter_rules regexps were not compiled in multiline mode, so
regexps involving ^ (beginning of line) matches probably won't match
in pre-2.1.7 Mailman. So avoiding that issue by using '\n' instead,
put the following regexp in Privacy options...->Spam
filters->header_filter_rules->Spam Filter Rule 1->Spam Filter Regexp:

  \nfrom:[^@]*@(?!fubar.com[>\s])

and set the action to discard. This pattern matches (case
insensitively) a newline followed by from: followed by anything up to
and including the first @ followed by anything other than fubar.com
and either > or white space (including newline).  See
<http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jul 17 23:04:49 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 14:04:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error: You are not authorized to
	createnew	mailinglists
In-Reply-To: <C0E16B6B.29F29%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607171404490234b1a62f3b@msapiro>

Ki Song wrote:

>>> Error: You are not authorized to create new mailing lists
>>> 
>>> I have configured the List creator's (authentication) password and entered
>>> it in the last field.

and

>I have english as my default installation.
>I still get the error: You are not authorized to create new mailing lists.


There are at least two possibilities.

1) you have more than one Mailman installation and the list creator
password file /usr/local/mailman/data/creator.pw that you set with
/usr/local/mailman/bin/mmsitepass -c is not the file that's being used
by your Mailman 2.1.5 web create module.

2) something is causing your web server to not deliver the exact
password you enter.

After you rule out 1) and you still have a problem, post again and I'll
give you some debug code to add to create.py to diagnose 2).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ki at knifecenter.com  Mon Jul 17 23:12:37 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 17:12:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error: You are not authorized to
	createnew	mailinglists
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607171404490234b1a62f3b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C0E17585.29F40%ki@knifecenter.com>

>>>> Error: You are not authorized to create new mailing lists
>>>> 
>>>> I have configured the List creator's (authentication) password and entered
>>>> it in the last field.
> 
> and
> 
>> I have english as my default installation.
>> I still get the error: You are not authorized to create new mailing lists.
> 
> 
> There are at least two possibilities.
> 
> 1) you have more than one Mailman installation and the list creator
> password file /usr/local/mailman/data/creator.pw that you set with
> /usr/local/mailman/bin/mmsitepass -c is not the file that's being used
> by your Mailman 2.1.5 web create module.
> 

I FOUND A SECOND INSTALLATION! How do I uninstall this second installation
safely?



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jul 18 00:41:58 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:41:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error: You are not authorized
	tocreatenew	mailinglists
In-Reply-To: <C0E17585.29F40%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006071715415800311d3d8b39@msapiro>

Ki Song wrote:
>
>I FOUND A SECOND INSTALLATION! How do I uninstall this second installation
>safely?


How was it installed? By whom? You might try 'rpm -q -a' to see if it
was installed via rpm, in which case you can try to remove it with
'rpm -e ...'

If it was not installed by a package manager or can't be uninstalled by
the package manager that installed it, you can remove its installed
directories (maybe /var/mailman) and other associated stuff such as
any mailman.* files in /etc/httpd/conf.d, /etc/cron.d and /var/log.

You might try 'find / -user mailman -or -group mailman' to look for
things.

You might also check things like /etc/services.

You might also want to have some idea of how/why it's there in the
first place unless you are the sole person responsible for this box.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From greg at headingup.net  Tue Jul 18 02:34:11 2006
From: greg at headingup.net (Greg Sims)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 17:34:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No One Can Post a Message but the Server
Message-ID: <000c01c6aa01$e4080d60$650a2b0a@WS>

Hi There,

 

I created a list that is for the distribution of a newsletter from a server.
I need to make sure that No One Can Every post to this list except for the
bash script that sends out the newsletter.

 

The newsletter is constructed daily by a bash script running out of CronTab
of a server.  The newsletter is constructed with an email header line that
looks like this:

 

            From: newsletter at raystedman.org

 

The script is run from a linux user-id that is "greg".  This means the mail
is actually coming from greg at raystedman.org.

 

So here's the big question.  How do I configure mailman so that Only this
script is allowed to post to the newsletter list?  Any other mail sent to
newsletter at raystedman.org should be discarded without notification.

 

This seems like a simple question but I need to be sure I am correct on this
point.

 

Thanks!  Greg



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jul 18 02:44:47 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 19:44:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No One Can Post a Message but the Server
In-Reply-To: <000c01c6aa01$e4080d60$650a2b0a@WS>
References: <000c01c6aa01$e4080d60$650a2b0a@WS>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607171744m1f00c2a8sf46174cab388fd34@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/17/06, Greg Sims <greg at headingup.net> wrote:
> I created a list that is for the distribution of a newsletter from a server.
> I need to make sure that No One Can Every post to this list except for the
> bash script that sends out the newsletter.
Just set:
Privacy -> Sender Filters -> default_member_moderation to Yes
Privacy -> Sender Filters -> member_moderation_action to Discard
Privacy -> Sender Filters -> generic_nonmember_action to Discard
Membership Management -> Set Everyone's Moderation Bit

...And then either (a) set the sender for the bash script to
unmoderated, or (b) (better idea) code the bash script to include the
'Approved: <list password>' as the first line or as a header.
-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From greg at headingup.net  Tue Jul 18 03:32:00 2006
From: greg at headingup.net (Greg Sims)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 18:32:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW:  No One Can Post a Message but the Server
Message-ID: <001501c6aa09$f79d3320$650a2b0a@WS>

Thanks Patrick!

It appears this password is striped from the email header before it is sent
out.  This is important as the list password would be disclosed to everyone!

Should the <list password> be the administrator for the list?  This is the
way it is setup for the server early Tuesday morning.  I hope it is correct.

Thanks again!  Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Bogen [mailto:pdbogen at gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 5:45 PM
To: Greg Sims
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] No One Can Post a Message but the Server

On 7/17/06, Greg Sims <greg at headingup.net> wrote:
> I created a list that is for the distribution of a newsletter from a
server.
> I need to make sure that No One Can Every post to this list except for the
> bash script that sends out the newsletter.
Just set:
Privacy -> Sender Filters -> default_member_moderation to Yes
Privacy -> Sender Filters -> member_moderation_action to Discard
Privacy -> Sender Filters -> generic_nonmember_action to Discard
Membership Management -> Set Everyone's Moderation Bit

...And then either (a) set the sender for the bash script to
unmoderated, or (b) (better idea) code the bash script to include the
'Approved: <list password>' as the first line or as a header.
-- 
- Patrick Bogen




From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jul 18 03:35:52 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 20:35:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: No One Can Post a Message but the Server
In-Reply-To: <001501c6aa09$f79d3320$650a2b0a@WS>
References: <001501c6aa09$f79d3320$650a2b0a@WS>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607171835n10be3f55qacd62be69a07614@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/17/06, Greg Sims <greg at headingup.net> wrote:
> Should the <list password> be the administrator for the list?  This is the
> way it is setup for the server early Tuesday morning.  I hope it is correct.

I believe it should be the list admin password, or the site admin password.


-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jul 18 03:57:24 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 18:57:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: No One Can Post a Message but the Server
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00607171835n10be3f55qacd62be69a07614@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060717185724096890650320@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>On 7/17/06, Greg Sims <greg at headingup.net> wrote:
>> Should the <list password> be the administrator for the list?  This is the
>> way it is setup for the server early Tuesday morning.  I hope it is correct.
>
>I believe it should be the list admin password, or the site admin password.


The site password specifically won't work because we don't want to
encourage it to be sent in plain text in email. Either the list admin
password or the list moderator password will work. The owner's member
password (if the owner is a member) will not work.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Tue Jul 18 03:40:46 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 18:40:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW:  No One Can Post a Message but the  Server
In-Reply-To: <001501c6aa09$f79d3320$650a2b0a@WS>
References: <001501c6aa09$f79d3320$650a2b0a@WS>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060717183422.07f7a450@crimson-dragon.com>

Greg Sims sent the message below at 06:32 PM 7/17/2006:
>Thanks Patrick!
>
>It appears this password is striped from the email header before it is sent
>out.  This is important as the list password would be disclosed to everyone!

Yes, the Approved: line with the password gets stripped from the mail 
if and ONLY if it meets one of two criteria.

1. It is the very first line in the body of the e-mail, there can be 
no other lines before it.

2. It is used as a header (I think this is really the best approach 
if you can do it, I am certain this can be done in Python, Perl and 
PHP, not so sure, about a bash script).

>Should the <list password> be the administrator for the list?  This is the
>way it is setup for the server early Tuesday morning.  I hope it is correct.

I believe the moderator password will work too. I am sure somebody 
will correct me if I am wrong. If so, you ought to use it because if 
it somehow becomes disclosed accidentally, there is much less 
potential for damage by malicious people than with the administrator password.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jul 18 05:00:22 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 20:00:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW:  No One Can Post a Message but the  Server
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060717183422.07f7a450@crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607172000220968d435253e@msapiro>

Dragon wrote:
>
>Yes, the Approved: line with the password gets stripped from the mail 
>if and ONLY if it meets one of two criteria.
>
>1. It is the very first line in the body of the e-mail, there can be 
>no other lines before it.


Actually, if it is in the body, it can be preceded by blank lines, but
it must be the first non-blank line in the first text/plain part of
the message.

However, there is a safety valve in that if the password is incorrect
or the Approved: line is somewhere where it won't be recognized and
stripped, the post will be held/rejected/discarded and will not be
sent to the list.


>2. It is used as a header (I think this is really the best approach 
>if you can do it, I am certain this can be done in Python, Perl and 
>PHP, not so sure, about a bash script).


The Header is definitely better. If it is in the body, there can be
issues in removing it from all alternative parts of a
multipart/alternative message. I'm working on improving this process,
but it currently can fail (and isn't even attempted pre Mailman 2.1.7).


>>Should the <list password> be the administrator for the list?  This is the
>>way it is setup for the server early Tuesday morning.  I hope it is correct.
>
>I believe the moderator password will work too. I am sure somebody 
>will correct me if I am wrong. If so, you ought to use it because if 
>it somehow becomes disclosed accidentally, there is much less 
>potential for damage by malicious people than with the administrator password.


Excellent suggestion!

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From gtnet at hok.juris.u-szeged.hu  Mon Jul 17 22:27:10 2006
From: gtnet at hok.juris.u-szeged.hu (gtnet at hok.juris.u-szeged.hu)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 22:27:10 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subject filtering
Message-ID: <20060717222710.zlresdw5sqpwgwko@hok.juris.u-szeged.hu>

Dear Mailman users and admins!

My server is behind a router, and all the mails coming via that router. THAT
router tag the mails with a ****SPAM***** subject line when it reaches a
limited spam score.

ANd now comes my problem: i cannot filter it out via the mailman admin
interface. all the spams get into the list, and my users and me getting
annoyed.

what do you suggesst me to do ?

i w8ing for ur reply

greets
Tamas Gabor



----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.


From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Tue Jul 18 07:44:45 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 22:44:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Quick spam regex question
In-Reply-To: <C0E15DC6.1B510%jrlamar@owu.edu>
Message-ID: <C0E1C35D.DAF7%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 7/17/06 12:31 PM, "Jason LaMar" <jrlamar at owu.edu> wrote:

> from *@fubar.com (for example)

Mark has answered your question well.  I'm just jumping in as I sometimes do
to point out that any likely example domain name one comes up with is likely
taken.  This one is relatively new in that context, only going back to 1997.

This particular fubar is
Films Unlimited Blizzards Avalanches and Rainstorms
(not what we thought at all  ;-) )

example.com is "guaranteed" never to exist, and is useful for purposes of
examples.

  --John




From jumper99 at gmx.de  Tue Jul 18 09:32:58 2006
From: jumper99 at gmx.de (Helmut Schneider)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 09:32:58 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not sending password reminders,
	subscription confirmations
References: <PC17402006071409123407503addb130@msapiro>
Message-ID: <000801c6aa3c$64c416d0$609b65c1@vpe.de>

From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
> Helmut Schneider wrote:
>>
>> I have 2 other lists which were not used anymore and checked them, they
>> also  work fine and notifications are sent. The only difference is that
>> the  concerned lists (the 2 which aren't sending notifications) contain
>> an  underscore, but I am quite unsure if this is relevant.
>
> I don't know either, but it seems to be the only distinguishing
> characteristic of the lists that fail.
>
> If you look in Mailman's 'smtp' log, can you find any evidence that the
> notices were sent?

Nope.

> You might try setting up another test_list with an underscore in the
> name and see if that fails too.

Does no fail. Is there a way to backup everything and then recreate those 
two lists?

Thanks, Helmut 



From it-support at asta.tu-darmstadt.de  Tue Jul 18 13:31:14 2006
From: it-support at asta.tu-darmstadt.de (IT-Support @ AStA TU Darmstadt)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 13:31:14 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists not shown on "listinfo"-site
Message-ID: <44BCC682.4000805@asta.tu-darmstadt.de>

Hello,

we had some problems with apache2 and mailman - after upgrading the
server the lists are not shown anymore on the listinfo-site

http://myserver/mailman/listinfo

Under /var/lib/mailman/list my lists are still there - i guess the
databaseconfig isn't read properly or could it be missconfiguration in
apache2?

Thanks!

Ivan


From greg at headingup.net  Tue Jul 18 14:58:30 2006
From: greg at headingup.net (Greg Sims)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 05:58:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: FW: No One Can Post a Message but the Server
Message-ID: <001201c6aa69$de7363f0$650a2b0a@WS>

Thank you for the feedback on this issue ... I wanted to give you an update
about the newsletter this morning.  The newsletter was generated by the
server but it was never distributed to the mailing list.

My first action was to get the newsletter out.  I added the server mail id
and the "From: " mail id in the header of the email to
accept_these_nonmembers.  I ran the script from the server manually and the
newsletter was distributed.

I looked at the header of the newsletter I received.  The "Approved: <list
password> line was removed before the newsletter was distributed.  Version
says I am "Using Mailman version: 2.1.5" by the way.

I had some new people subscribe to the list last night.
Default_member_moderation is set to Yes but the moderation bit of the new
members is not being set.

It still looks like we have some bugs to work out with this scheme.  

Thanks again for your help!  Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 8:00 PM
To: Dragon; Greg Sims; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] FW: No One Can Post a Message but the Server

Dragon wrote:
>
>Yes, the Approved: line with the password gets stripped from the mail 
>if and ONLY if it meets one of two criteria.
>
>1. It is the very first line in the body of the e-mail, there can be 
>no other lines before it.


Actually, if it is in the body, it can be preceded by blank lines, but
it must be the first non-blank line in the first text/plain part of
the message.

However, there is a safety valve in that if the password is incorrect
or the Approved: line is somewhere where it won't be recognized and
stripped, the post will be held/rejected/discarded and will not be
sent to the list.


>2. It is used as a header (I think this is really the best approach 
>if you can do it, I am certain this can be done in Python, Perl and 
>PHP, not so sure, about a bash script).


The Header is definitely better. If it is in the body, there can be
issues in removing it from all alternative parts of a
multipart/alternative message. I'm working on improving this process,
but it currently can fail (and isn't even attempted pre Mailman 2.1.7).


>>Should the <list password> be the administrator for the list?  This is the
>>way it is setup for the server early Tuesday morning.  I hope it is
correct.
>
>I believe the moderator password will work too. I am sure somebody 
>will correct me if I am wrong. If so, you ought to use it because if 
>it somehow becomes disclosed accidentally, there is much less 
>potential for damage by malicious people than with the administrator
password.


Excellent suggestion!

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan





From ki at knifecenter.com  Tue Jul 18 15:09:50 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 09:09:50 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error: You are not authorized
	tocreatenew	mailinglists
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006071715415800311d3d8b39@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C0E255DE.2A07E%ki@knifecenter.com>

> Ki Song wrote:
>> 
>> I FOUND A SECOND INSTALLATION! How do I uninstall this second installation
>> safely?
> 
> 
> How was it installed? By whom? You might try 'rpm -q -a' to see if it
> was installed via rpm, in which case you can try to remove it with
> 'rpm -e ...'
> 
> If it was not installed by a package manager or can't be uninstalled by
> the package manager that installed it, you can remove its installed
> directories (maybe /var/mailman) and other associated stuff such as
> any mailman.* files in /etc/httpd/conf.d, /etc/cron.d and /var/log.
> 
> You might try 'find / -user mailman -or -group mailman' to look for
> things.
> 
> You might also check things like /etc/services.
> 
> You might also want to have some idea of how/why it's there in the
> first place unless you are the sole person responsible for this box.
> 
I am the only person that maintains this box.
I installed this program, to the best of my knowledge, through apt-get
install. Regardless, I have just deleted the whole directory and all
subdirectories under '/var/mailman/' and kept the "correct" installation
under '/usr/local/mailman'

I am going to reconfigure the installation to make sure it is working
properly.

Fingers crossed!



From dacuy at psb.ugent.be  Tue Jul 18 15:56:04 2006
From: dacuy at psb.ugent.be (Dany Cuyt)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 15:56:04 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listinfo page
Message-ID: <44BCE874.8000304@psb.ugent.be>

Our listinfo page looks as follows:

Welcome!

Below is a listing of all the public mailing lists on 
maillists.psb.ugent.be. Click on a list name to get more information 
about the list, or to subscribe, unsubscribe, and change the preferences 
on your subscription. To visit the general information page for an 
unadvertised list, open a URL similar to this one, but with a '/' and 
the list name appended.

List administrators, you can visit the list admin overview page 
<https://maillists.psb.ugent.be/mailman/admin> to find the management 
interface for your list.

If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact 
mailman at maillists.psb.ugent.be <mailto:mailman at maillists.psb.ugent.be>

How can I change the mail address at the end to contact in case of 
trouble using the lists. mailman at maillists.psb.ugent.be should be 
mailman at psb.ugent.be. The rest of mailman is working fine.

gr,
Dany



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jul 18 16:11:51 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 09:11:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: FW: No One Can Post a Message but the Server
In-Reply-To: <001201c6aa69$de7363f0$650a2b0a@WS>
References: <001201c6aa69$de7363f0$650a2b0a@WS>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607180711p2fdb4ce8v408fb4b7cbf2a7c@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/18/06, Greg Sims <greg at headingup.net> wrote:
> Thank you for the feedback on this issue ... I wanted to give you an update
> about the newsletter this morning.  The newsletter was generated by the
> server but it was never distributed to the mailing list.

Can you double-check that the bash script is including the header
properly? Redirect the To: address to your personal account instead of
to Mailman, and look at the raw message.

<snip>

> I had some new people subscribe to the list last night.
> Default_member_moderation is set to Yes but the moderation bit of the new
> members is not being set.

As far as I know, this "should work". Can someone else with more
knowledge of why this might fail weigh in?

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jul 18 16:15:10 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 09:15:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subject filtering
In-Reply-To: <20060717222710.zlresdw5sqpwgwko@hok.juris.u-szeged.hu>
References: <20060717222710.zlresdw5sqpwgwko@hok.juris.u-szeged.hu>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607180715l38629217udab3c6659c0a3523@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/17/06, gtnet at hok.juris.u-szeged.hu <gtnet at hok.juris.u-szeged.hu> wrote:
> My server is behind a router, and all the mails coming via that router. THAT
> router tag the mails with a ****SPAM***** subject line when it reaches a
> limited spam score.
>
> ANd now comes my problem: i cannot filter it out via the mailman admin
> interface. all the spams get into the list, and my users and me getting
> annoyed.

Is the ****SPAM***** at the beginning or end of the subject? Or does
it replace the subject?

Anyway, add to Privacy Options > bounce_matching_headers:
subject: .*\*SPAM\*.*

..This will match and filter anything that has '*SPAM*' in the subject.
-- 
- Patrick Bogen

P.s.:
w8ing? Come on. :P


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jul 18 16:18:00 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 09:18:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists not shown on "listinfo"-site
In-Reply-To: <44BCC682.4000805@asta.tu-darmstadt.de>
References: <44BCC682.4000805@asta.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607180718w5fdb56e4jfcfccd3dd60196b2@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/18/06, IT-Support @ AStA TU Darmstadt
<it-support at asta.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote:
> we had some problems with apache2 and mailman - after upgrading the
> server the lists are not shown anymore on the listinfo-site
>
> http://myserver/mailman/listinfo
>
> Under /var/lib/mailman/list my lists are still there - i guess the
> databaseconfig isn't read properly or could it be missconfiguration in
> apache2?

Most likely ah issue with apache2. Can you paste your Apache config
directives regarding Mailman, and the ones you included in your
Apache2 config?

(Grepping the old configfiles for 'mailman' should be sufficient to
find the interesting ones.)

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From greg at headingup.net  Tue Jul 18 17:02:20 2006
From: greg at headingup.net (Greg Sims)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 08:02:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: FW: No One Can Post a Message but the Server
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00607180711p2fdb4ce8v408fb4b7cbf2a7c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000601c6aa7b$2b7783f0$650a2b0a@WS>

Patrick,

I did two things as a result of your request:

(1) I logged in as moderator to verify the password is correct.

(2) I sent the newsletter to myself.  Here are the last few lines of the
header:
	Cc:
	Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
	Approved: <password>
I removed the password for this message.  The bash script seems to be
working.

Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Bogen [mailto:pdbogen at gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 7:12 AM
To: Greg Sims
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] FW: FW: No One Can Post a Message but the
Server

On 7/18/06, Greg Sims <greg at headingup.net> wrote:
> Thank you for the feedback on this issue ... I wanted to give you an
update
> about the newsletter this morning.  The newsletter was generated by the
> server but it was never distributed to the mailing list.

Can you double-check that the bash script is including the header
properly? Redirect the To: address to your personal account instead of
to Mailman, and look at the raw message.

<snip>

> I had some new people subscribe to the list last night.
> Default_member_moderation is set to Yes but the moderation bit of the new
> members is not being set.

As far as I know, this "should work". Can someone else with more
knowledge of why this might fail weigh in?

-- 
- Patrick Bogen




From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jul 18 17:04:22 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 10:04:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: FW: No One Can Post a Message but the Server
In-Reply-To: <000601c6aa7b$2b7783f0$650a2b0a@WS>
References: <6fbe3da00607180711p2fdb4ce8v408fb4b7cbf2a7c@mail.gmail.com>
	<000601c6aa7b$2b7783f0$650a2b0a@WS>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607180804l504a3dbbk708ceedff90acac@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/18/06, Greg Sims <greg at headingup.net> wrote:
> (2) I sent the newsletter to myself.  Here are the last few lines of the
> header:
>         Cc:
>         Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
>         Approved: <password>

Just in case... the password shouldn't be in angle brackets. I.e., if
the password is 'fish', it should be:

Approved: fish
not
Approved: <fish>

Assuming that's fine, I'm not sure what the problem is. Can you check
your mailman logs (vette, specifically) to see what happened to this
message?

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From it-support at asta.tu-darmstadt.de  Tue Jul 18 17:35:48 2006
From: it-support at asta.tu-darmstadt.de (IT-Support @ AStA TU Darmstadt)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 17:35:48 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists not shown on "listinfo"-site
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00607180718w5fdb56e4jfcfccd3dd60196b2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <44BCC682.4000805@asta.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<6fbe3da00607180718w5fdb56e4jfcfccd3dd60196b2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44BCFFD4.6090702@asta.tu-darmstadt.de>

Patrick Bogen schrieb:
> On 7/18/06, IT-Support @ AStA TU Darmstadt
> <it-support at asta.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote:
>> we had some problems with apache2 and mailman - after upgrading the
>> server the lists are not shown anymore on the listinfo-site
>>
>> http://myserver/mailman/listinfo
>>
>> Under /var/lib/mailman/list my lists are still there - i guess the
>> databaseconfig isn't read properly or could it be missconfiguration in
>> apache2?
> 
> Most likely ah issue with apache2. Can you paste your Apache config
> directives regarding Mailman, and the ones you included in your
> Apache2 config?
> 
> (Grepping the old configfiles for 'mailman' should be sufficient to
> find the interesting ones.)
> 

Hello Patrick,

thhanks ffor your mail!

The mailman listinfo-site is available, but the lists are not shown.

The conf under /etc/apache2/sites-available/default looks like this
(Debian):

NameVirtualHost *
<VirtualHost *:80>
	ServerAdmin webmaster at localhost
	
	DocumentRoot /var/www/
	<Directory />
		Options FollowSymLinks
		AllowOverride None
	</Directory>
	<Directory /var/www/>
		Options Indexes FollowSymLinks MultiViews
		AllowOverride None
		Order allow,deny
		allow from all
		# This directive allows us to have apache2's default start page
                # in /apache2-default/, but still have / go to the right
place
#		RedirectMatch ^/$ /asta/

		<FilesMatch "^cms$">
			ForceType application/x-httpd-php
		</FilesMatch>

	</Directory>
	
	ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ /usr/lib/cgi-bin/
	<Directory "/usr/lib/cgi-bin">
		AllowOverride None
		Options ExecCGI -MultiViews +SymLinksIfOwnerMatch
		Order allow,deny
		Allow from all
	</Directory>

	ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/
	<Directory /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/>
		AllowOverride None
		Options ExecCGI
		Order allow,deny
		Allow from all
	</Directory>


	ErrorLog /var/log/apache2/error.log

	# Possible values include: debug, info, notice, warn, error, crit,
	# alert, emerg.
	LogLevel warn

	CustomLog /var/log/apache2/access.log combined
	ServerSignature On

	Alias /doc/ "/usr/share/doc/"
	<Directory "/usr/share/doc/">
		Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks
		AllowOverride None
		Order deny,allow
		Deny from all
		Allow from 127.0.0.0/255.0.0.0 ::1/128
	</Directory>

</VirtualHost>


Apache2.conf:

# Based upon the NCSA server configuration files originally by Rob McCool.
# Changed extensively for the Debian package by Daniel Stone
<daniel at sfarc.net>
# and also by Thom May <thom at debian.org>.

# ServerRoot: The top of the directory tree under which the server's
# configuration, error, and log files are kept.
#
# NOTE!  If you intend to place this on an NFS (or otherwise network)
# mounted filesystem then please read the LockFile documentation
# (available at <URL:http://www.apache.org/docs/mod/core.html#lockfile>);
# you will save yourself a lot of trouble.

ServerRoot "/etc/apache2"

# The LockFile directive sets the path to the lockfile used when Apache
# is compiled with either USE_FCNTL_SERIALIZED_ACCEPT or
# USE_FLOCK_SERIALIZED_ACCEPT. This directive should normally be left at
# its default value. The main reason for changing it is if the logs
# directory is NFS mounted, since the lockfile MUST BE STORED ON A LOCAL
# DISK. The PID of the main server process is automatically appended to
# the filename.

LockFile /var/lock/apache2/accept.lock

# PidFile: The file in which the server should record its process
# identification number when it starts.

PidFile /var/run/apache2.pid

# Timeout: The number of seconds before receives and sends time out.

TimeOut 300

# KeepAlive: Whether or not to allow persistent connections (more than
# one request per connection). Set to "Off" to deactivate.

KeepAlive on

# MaxKeepAliveRequests: The maximum number of requests to allow
# during a persistent connection. Set to 0 to allow an unlimited amount.
# We recommend you leave this number high, for maximum performance.

MaxKeepAliveRequests 100

# KeepAliveTimeout: Number of seconds to wait for the next request from the
# same client on the same connection.

KeepAliveTimeout 15

##
## Server-Pool Size Regulation (MPM specific)
##

# prefork MPM
# StartServers ......... number of server processes to start
# MinSpareServers ...... minimum number of server processes which are
kept spare
# MaxSpareServers ...... maximum number of server processes which are
kept spare
# MaxClients ........... maximum number of server processes allowed to start
# MaxRequestsPerChild .. maximum number of requests a server process serves
<IfModule prefork.c>
StartServers         5
MinSpareServers      5
MaxSpareServers     10
MaxClients          20
MaxRequestsPerChild  0
</IfModule>

# pthread MPM
# StartServers ......... initial  number of server processes to start
# MaxClients ........... maximum  number of server processes allowed to
start
# MinSpareThreads ...... minimum  number of worker threads which are
kept spare
# MaxSpareThreads ...... maximum  number of worker threads which are
kept spare
# ThreadsPerChild ...... constant number of worker threads in each
server process
# MaxRequestsPerChild .. maximum  number of requests a server process serves
<IfModule worker.c>
StartServers         2
MaxClients         150
MinSpareThreads     25
MaxSpareThreads     75
ThreadsPerChild     25
MaxRequestsPerChild  0
</IfModule>

# perchild MPM
# NumServers ........... constant number of server processes
# StartThreads ......... initial  number of worker threads in each
server process
# MinSpareThreads ...... minimum  number of worker threads which are
kept spare
# MaxSpareThreads ...... maximum  number of worker threads which are
kept spare
# MaxThreadsPerChild ... maximum  number of worker threads in each
server process
# MaxRequestsPerChild .. maximum  number of connections per server
process (then it dies)
<IfModule perchild.c>
NumServers           5
StartThreads         5
MinSpareThreads      5
MaxSpareThreads     10
MaxThreadsPerChild  20
MaxRequestsPerChild  0
AcceptMutex fcntl
</IfModule>

User www-data
Group www-data

# The following directives define some format nicknames for use with
# a CustomLog directive (see below).
LogFormat "%h %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %b \"%{Referer}i\" \"%{User-Agent}i\""
combined
LogFormat "%h %l %u %t \"%r\" %>s %b" common
LogFormat "%{Referer}i -> %U" referer
LogFormat "%{User-agent}i" agent


# Global error log.
ErrorLog /var/log/apache2/error.log

# Include module configuration:
Include /etc/apache2/mods-enabled/*.load
Include /etc/apache2/mods-enabled/*.conf

# Include all the user configurations:
Include /etc/apache2/httpd.conf

# Include ports listing
Include /etc/apache2/ports.conf

# Include generic snippets of statements
Include /etc/apache2/conf.d/[^.#]*

#Let's have some Icons, shall we?
Alias /icons/ "/usr/share/apache2/icons/"
<Directory "/usr/share/apache2/icons">
    Options Indexes MultiViews
    AllowOverride None
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>

# Set up the default error docs.
#
# Customizable error responses come in three flavors:
# 1) plain text 2) local redirects 3) external redirects
#
# Some examples:
#ErrorDocument 500 "The server made a boo boo."
#ErrorDocument 404 /missing.html
#ErrorDocument 404 "/cgi-bin/missing_handler.pl"
#ErrorDocument 402 http://www.example.com/subscription_info.html
#

#
# Putting this all together, we can Internationalize error responses.
#
# We use Alias to redirect any /error/HTTP_<error>.html.var response to
# our collection of by-error message multi-language collections.  We use
# includes to substitute the appropriate text.
#
# You can modify the messages' appearance without changing any of the
# default HTTP_<error>.html.var files by adding the line;
#
#   Alias /error/include/ "/your/include/path/"
#
# which allows you to create your own set of files by starting with the
# /usr/local/apache2/error/include/ files and
# copying them to /your/include/path/, even on a per-VirtualHost basis.
#

<IfModule mod_negotiation.c>
<IfModule mod_include.c>
    Alias /error/ "/usr/share/apache2/error/"

    <Directory "/usr/share/apache2/error">
        AllowOverride None
        Options IncludesNoExec
        AddOutputFilter Includes html
        AddHandler type-map var
        Order allow,deny
        Allow from all
        LanguagePriority en es de fr
        ForceLanguagePriority Prefer Fallback
    </Directory>

    ErrorDocument 400 /error/HTTP_BAD_REQUEST.html.var
    ErrorDocument 401 /error/HTTP_UNAUTHORIZED.html.var
    ErrorDocument 403 /error/HTTP_FORBIDDEN.html.var
    ErrorDocument 404 /error/HTTP_NOT_FOUND.html.var
    ErrorDocument 405 /error/HTTP_METHOD_NOT_ALLOWED.html.var
    ErrorDocument 408 /error/HTTP_REQUEST_TIME_OUT.html.var
    ErrorDocument 410 /error/HTTP_GONE.html.var
    ErrorDocument 411 /error/HTTP_LENGTH_REQUIRED.html.var
    ErrorDocument 412 /error/HTTP_PRECONDITION_FAILED.html.var
    ErrorDocument 413 /error/HTTP_REQUEST_ENTITY_TOO_LARGE.html.var
    ErrorDocument 414 /error/HTTP_REQUEST_URI_TOO_LARGE.html.var
    ErrorDocument 415 /error/HTTP_SERVICE_UNAVAILABLE.html.var
    ErrorDocument 500 /error/HTTP_INTERNAL_SERVER_ERROR.html.var
    ErrorDocument 501 /error/HTTP_NOT_IMPLEMENTED.html.var
    ErrorDocument 502 /error/HTTP_BAD_GATEWAY.html.var
    ErrorDocument 503 /error/HTTP_SERVICE_UNAVAILABLE.html.var
    ErrorDocument 506 /error/HTTP_VARIANT_ALSO_VARIES.html.var

</IfModule>
</IfModule>

DirectoryIndex index.php index.html index.cgi index.pl index.xhtml

# UserDir is now a module
#UserDir public_html
#UserDir disabled root

#<Directory /home/*/public_html>
#	AllowOverride FileInfo AuthConfig Limit
#	Options Indexes SymLinksIfOwnerMatch IncludesNoExec
#</Directory>

AccessFileName .htaccess

<Files ~ "^\.ht">
    Order allow,deny
    Deny from all
</Files>

<Files ~ "\.ini$">
    Order allow,deny
    Deny from all
</Files>

UseCanonicalName Off

TypesConfig /etc/mime.types
DefaultType text/plain

HostnameLookups Off

IndexOptions FancyIndexing VersionSort

AddIconByEncoding (CMP,/icons/compressed.gif) x-compress x-gzip

AddIconByType (TXT,/icons/text.gif) text/*
AddIconByType (IMG,/icons/image2.gif) image/*
AddIconByType (SND,/icons/sound2.gif) audio/*
AddIconByType (VID,/icons/movie.gif) video/*

# This really should be .jpg.

AddIcon /icons/binary.gif .bin .exe
AddIcon /icons/binhex.gif .hqx
AddIcon /icons/tar.gif .tar
AddIcon /icons/world2.gif .wrl .wrl.gz .vrml .vrm .iv
AddIcon /icons/compressed.gif .Z .z .tgz .gz .zip
AddIcon /icons/a.gif .ps .ai .eps
AddIcon /icons/layout.gif .html .shtml .htm .pdf
AddIcon /icons/text.gif .txt
AddIcon /icons/c.gif .c
AddIcon /icons/p.gif .pl .py
AddIcon /icons/f.gif .for
AddIcon /icons/dvi.gif .dvi
AddIcon /icons/uuencoded.gif .uu
AddIcon /icons/script.gif .conf .sh .shar .csh .ksh .tcl
AddIcon /icons/tex.gif .tex
AddIcon /icons/bomb.gif core

AddIcon /icons/back.gif ..
AddIcon /icons/hand.right.gif README
AddIcon /icons/folder.gif ^^DIRECTORY^^
AddIcon /icons/blank.gif ^^BLANKICON^^


# This is from Matty J's patch. Anyone want to make the icons?
#AddIcon /icons/dirsymlink.jpg ^^SYMDIR^^
#AddIcon /icons/symlink.jpg ^^SYMLINK^^

DefaultIcon /icons/unknown.gif

ReadmeName README.html
HeaderName HEADER.html

IndexIgnore .??* *~ *# HEADER* RCS CVS *,t

AddEncoding x-compress Z
AddEncoding x-gzip gz tgz

AddLanguage da .dk
AddLanguage nl .nl
AddLanguage en .en
AddLanguage et .et
AddLanguage fr .fr
AddLanguage de .de
AddLanguage el .el
AddLanguage it .it
AddLanguage ja .ja
AddLanguage pl .po
AddLanguage ko .ko
AddLanguage pt .pt
AddLanguage no .no
AddLanguage pt-br .pt-br
AddLanguage ltz .ltz
AddLanguage ca .ca
AddLanguage es .es
AddLanguage sv .se
AddLanguage cz .cz
AddLanguage ru .ru
AddLanguage tw .tw
AddLanguage zh-tw .tw

LanguagePriority en da nl et fr de el it ja ko no pl pt pt-br ltz ca es
sv tw


#AddDefaultCharset	ISO-8859-1

AddCharset ISO-8859-1  .iso8859-1  .latin1
AddCharset ISO-8859-2  .iso8859-2  .latin2 .cen
AddCharset ISO-8859-3  .iso8859-3  .latin3
AddCharset ISO-8859-4  .iso8859-4  .latin4
AddCharset ISO-8859-5  .iso8859-5  .latin5 .cyr .iso-ru
AddCharset ISO-8859-6  .iso8859-6  .latin6 .arb
AddCharset ISO-8859-7  .iso8859-7  .latin7 .grk
AddCharset ISO-8859-8  .iso8859-8  .latin8 .heb	
AddCharset ISO-8859-9  .iso8859-9  .latin9 .trk
AddCharset ISO-2022-JP .iso2022-jp .jis
AddCharset ISO-2022-KR .iso2022-kr .kis
AddCharset ISO-2022-CN .iso2022-cn .cis
AddCharset Big5        .Big5       .big5
# For russian, more than one charset is used (depends on client, mostly):
AddCharset WINDOWS-1251 .cp-1251   .win-1251
AddCharset CP866       .cp866
AddCharset KOI8-r      .koi8-r .koi8-ru
AddCharset KOI8-ru     .koi8-uk .ua
AddCharset ISO-10646-UCS-2 .ucs2
AddCharset ISO-10646-UCS-4 .ucs4
AddCharset UTF-8       .utf8

AddCharset GB2312      .gb2312 .gb
AddCharset utf-7       .utf7
AddCharset utf-8       .utf8
AddCharset big5	       .big5 .b5
AddCharset EUC-TW      .euc-tw	
AddCharset EUC-JP      .euc-jp
AddCharset EUC-KR      .euc-kr
AddCharset shift_jis   .sjis

#AddType application/x-httpd-php .php
#AddType application/x-httpd-php-source .phps

AddType application/x-tar .tgz

# To use CGI scripts outside /cgi-bin/:
#
#AddHandler cgi-script .cgi

# To use server-parsed HTML files
#
<FilesMatch "\.shtml(\..+)?$">
    SetOutputFilter INCLUDES
</FilesMatch>

# If you wish to use server-parsed imagemap files, use
#
#AddHandler imap-file map

BrowserMatch "Mozilla/2" nokeepalive
BrowserMatch "MSIE 4\.0b2;" nokeepalive downgrade-1.0 force-response-1.0
BrowserMatch "RealPlayer 4\.0" force-response-1.0
BrowserMatch "Java/1\.0" force-response-1.0
BrowserMatch "JDK/1\.0" force-response-1.0

#
# The following directive disables redirects on non-GET requests for
# a directory that does not include the trailing slash.  This fixes a
# problem with Microsoft WebFolders which does not appropriately handle
# redirects for folders with DAV methods.
#

BrowserMatch "Microsoft Data Access Internet Publishing Provider"
redirect-carefully
BrowserMatch "^WebDrive" redirect-carefully
BrowserMatch "^gnome-vfs" redirect-carefully
BrowserMatch "^WebDAVFS/1.[012]" redirect-carefully

# Allow server status reports, with the URL of
http://servername/server-status
# Change the ".your_domain.com" to match your domain to enable.
#
#<Location /server-status>
#    SetHandler server-status
#    Order deny,allow
#    Deny from all
#    Allow from .your_domain.com
#</Location>

# Allow remote server configuration reports, with the URL of
#  http://servername/server-info (requires that mod_info.c be loaded).
# Change the ".your_domain.com" to match your domain to enable.
#
#<Location /server-info>
#    SetHandler server-info
#    Order deny,allow
#    Deny from all
#    Allow from .your_domain.com
#</Location>

# Include the virtual host configurations:
Include /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/[^.#]*


mm_cfg.py:
# -*- python -*-

# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
# modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
# as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
# of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
#
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
# GNU General Public License for more details.
#
# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
# along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
# Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA.


"""This is the module which takes your site-specific settings.

>From a raw distribution it should be copied to mm_cfg.py.  If you
already have an mm_cfg.py, be careful to add in only the new settings
you want.  The complete set of distributed defaults, with annotation,
are in ./Defaults.  In mm_cfg, override only those you want to
change, after the

  from Defaults import *

line (see below).

Note that these are just default settings - many can be overridden via the
admin and user interfaces on a per-list or per-user basis.

Note also that some of the settings are resolved against the active list
setting by using the value as a format string against the
list-instance-object's dictionary - see the distributed value of
DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER for an example."""


#######################################################
#    Here's where we get the distributed defaults.    #

from Defaults import *

##############################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific configuration below, in mm_cfg.py . #
# See Defaults.py for explanations of the values.            #

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# The name of the list Mailman uses to send password reminders
# and similar. Don't change if you want mailman-owner to be
# a valid local part.
MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# If you change these, you have to configure your http server
# accordingly (Alias and ScriptAlias directives in most httpds)
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/mailman/private/'
IMAGE_LOGOS         = '/images/mailman/'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Default domain for email addresses of newly created MLs
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'asta.tu-darmstadt.de'
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Default host for web interface of newly created MLs
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'www.asta.tu-darmstadt.de'
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Required when setting any of its arguments.


add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# The default language for this server.
DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'de'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Iirc this was used in pre 2.1, leave it for now
USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER    = 0              # Still used?

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Unset send_reminders on newly created lists
DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = 0

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment this if you configured your MTA such that it
# automatically recognizes newly created lists.
# (see /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.{EXIM,...})
# MTA=None   # Misnomer, suppresses alias output on newlist

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment if you use Postfix virtual domains, but be sure to
# read /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.POSTFIX first.
# MTA='Postfix'

# Note - if you're looking for something that is imported from mm_cfg,
but you
# didn't find it above, it's probably in
/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py.


Thanks!

Ivan






From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jul 18 17:39:26 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 10:39:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists not shown on "listinfo"-site
In-Reply-To: <44BCFFD4.6090702@asta.tu-darmstadt.de>
References: <44BCC682.4000805@asta.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<6fbe3da00607180718w5fdb56e4jfcfccd3dd60196b2@mail.gmail.com>
	<44BCFFD4.6090702@asta.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607180839j5a2a4ccj9401143797e7dcb3@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/18/06, IT-Support @ AStA TU Darmstadt
<it-support at asta.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote:
> The mailman listinfo-site is available, but the lists are not shown.

Ah, sorry, that wasn't very clear.

Have you tried following FAQ 4.62
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.062.htp>
?
-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From ki at knifecenter.com  Tue Jul 18 17:44:36 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 11:44:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Group Mismatch Error
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00607180804l504a3dbbk708ceedff90acac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C0E27A24.2A118%ki@knifecenter.com>

If I have a Group mismatch error, where my postfix server is trying to
execute a script as "web2" but mailman is trying to execute it as group
"mailman", can I simply run configure and provide the command line option
--with-mail-gid=web2

OR

do I have to run configure again with ALL of my custom configuration
options. For example, do I have to run configure with ALL of my options
again, or can I simply just run configure with the --with-mail-gid=web2
option changed?



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jul 18 18:17:36 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 11:17:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Group Mismatch Error
In-Reply-To: <C0E27A24.2A118%ki@knifecenter.com>
References: <6fbe3da00607180804l504a3dbbk708ceedff90acac@mail.gmail.com>
	<C0E27A24.2A118%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607180917w63525e0byd1633aafbe295bf9@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/18/06, Ki Song <ki at knifecenter.com> wrote:
> If I have a Group mismatch error, where my postfix server is trying to
> execute a script as "web2" but mailman is trying to execute it as group
> "mailman", can I simply run configure and provide the command line option
> --with-mail-gid=web2
>
> OR
>
> do I have to run configure again with ALL of my custom configuration
> options. For example, do I have to run configure with ALL of my options
> again, or can I simply just run configure with the --with-mail-gid=web2
> option changed?

You'd need to include all configure options that you want.

That said, you should be able to just change the GID that postfix is
running things as to 'mailman' instead of 'web2'. If I understand
correctly, postfix uses the GID of the aliases file that it's pulling
the alias from.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From ki at knifecenter.com  Tue Jul 18 18:21:26 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 12:21:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SOLVED Mailman Group Mismatch Error
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00607180917w63525e0byd1633aafbe295bf9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C0E282C6.2A142%ki@knifecenter.com>

> On 7/18/06, Ki Song <ki at knifecenter.com> wrote:
>> If I have a Group mismatch error, where my postfix server is trying to
>> execute a script as "web2" but mailman is trying to execute it as group
>> "mailman", can I simply run configure and provide the command line option
>> --with-mail-gid=web2
>> 
>> OR
>> 
>> do I have to run configure again with ALL of my custom configuration
>> options. For example, do I have to run configure with ALL of my options
>> again, or can I simply just run configure with the --with-mail-gid=web2
>> option changed?
> 
> You'd need to include all configure options that you want.
> 
> That said, you should be able to just change the GID that postfix is
> running things as to 'mailman' instead of 'web2'. If I understand
> correctly, postfix uses the GID of the aliases file that it's pulling
> the alias from.
> 
I just re-ran configure with all the options.

> -- 
> - Patrick Bogen



From ki at knifecenter.com  Tue Jul 18 18:24:14 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 12:24:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML Formatted Email
Message-ID: <C0E2836E.2A143%ki@knifecenter.com>

How do I send an HTML formatted e-mail to all the subscribers to my mailing
list? 
Basically, I'm trying to use Mailman to send a monthly newsletter to all of
our customers. This newsletter will only be an announcement list, where only
the administrator can post to the list.



From greg at headingup.net  Tue Jul 18 19:28:33 2006
From: greg at headingup.net (Greg Sims)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 10:28:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: FW: No One Can Post a Message but the Server
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00607180804l504a3dbbk708ceedff90acac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001f01c6aa8f$991a9820$650a2b0a@WS>

Patrick,

We did not use "<" and ">" around the password.  It seems like we still need
to figure out why the newsletter was not distributed this morning and why
the moderation bit is not being set for new subscribers.

Thanks again, Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Bogen [mailto:pdbogen at gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 8:04 AM
To: Greg Sims
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] FW: FW: No One Can Post a Message but the
Server

On 7/18/06, Greg Sims <greg at headingup.net> wrote:
> (2) I sent the newsletter to myself.  Here are the last few lines of the
> header:
>         Cc:
>         Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
>         Approved: <password>

Just in case... the password shouldn't be in angle brackets. I.e., if
the password is 'fish', it should be:

Approved: fish
not
Approved: <fish>

Assuming that's fine, I'm not sure what the problem is. Can you check
your mailman logs (vette, specifically) to see what happened to this
message?

-- 
- Patrick Bogen




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Jul 18 19:19:09 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 12:19:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML Formatted Email
In-Reply-To: <C0E2836E.2A143%ki@knifecenter.com>
References: <C0E2836E.2A143%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <p06200705c0e2c838d708@[10.0.1.213]>

At 12:24 PM -0400 2006-07-18, Ki Song wrote:

>  How do I send an HTML formatted e-mail to all the subscribers to my mailing
>  list?

You generate an HTML-formatted message, and then submit that to the 
list.  Whatever program you use to generate that HTML-formatted 
message doesn't really matter as far as Mailman is concerned, because 
that's an outside process.

>  Basically, I'm trying to use Mailman to send a monthly newsletter to all of
>  our customers. This newsletter will only be an announcement list, where only
>  the administrator can post to the list.

The administrator needs to use a program that will generate an 
HTML-formatted message, which will then be submitted to Mailman.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jul 18 19:59:14 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 12:59:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: FW: No One Can Post a Message but the Server
In-Reply-To: <001f01c6aa8f$991a9820$650a2b0a@WS>
References: <6fbe3da00607180804l504a3dbbk708ceedff90acac@mail.gmail.com>
	<001f01c6aa8f$991a9820$650a2b0a@WS>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607181059j22b1a0b3m9ca06940652990d@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/18/06, Greg Sims <greg at headingup.net> wrote:
> We did not use "<" and ">" around the password.  It seems like we still need
> to figure out why the newsletter was not distributed this morning and why
> the moderation bit is not being set for new subscribers.

Can you check your vette log to see what the reason was for discarding
the message?

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From ki at knifecenter.com  Tue Jul 18 20:07:04 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:07:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML Formatted Email
In-Reply-To: <p06200705c0e2c838d708@[10.0.1.213]>
Message-ID: <C0E29B88.2A19B%ki@knifecenter.com>

>> How do I send an HTML formatted e-mail to all the subscribers to my mailing
>> list?
> 
> You generate an HTML-formatted message, and then submit that to the
> list.  Whatever program you use to generate that HTML-formatted
> message doesn't really matter as far as Mailman is concerned, because
> that's an outside process.
>
Is there a web interface built into mailman that allows me to post these
HTML messages to the list?
The reason I ask is because I was using a program called Listserv by LSoft
that allowed me to post message via a web interface and had a check mark
that allowed me to send messages as HTML.

I'm guessing the best method to do what I want to do (send HTML newsletters)
is to:
- send a message to the list I created via an e-mail client like Outlook or
Thunderbird
- Make sure it is encoded as HTML



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jul 18 20:10:07 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 13:10:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML Formatted Email
In-Reply-To: <C0E29B88.2A19B%ki@knifecenter.com>
References: <p06200705c0e2c838d708@10.0.1.213>
	<C0E29B88.2A19B%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607181110h1015dbbay7e8c4483e5d77106@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/18/06, Ki Song <ki at knifecenter.com> wrote:
> Is there a web interface built into mailman that allows me to post these
> HTML messages to the list?
No, but there /are/ some fairly easy to use webmail solutions around.

> I'm guessing the best method to do what I want to do (send HTML newsletters)
> is to:
> - send a message to the list I created via an e-mail client like Outlook or
> Thunderbird
> - Make sure it is encoded as HTML

Barring the above, yes, this is the best way to do it.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From ki at knifecenter.com  Tue Jul 18 20:12:22 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:12:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML Formatted Email
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00607181110h1015dbbay7e8c4483e5d77106@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C0E29CC6.2A1A3%ki@knifecenter.com>

> On 7/18/06, Ki Song <ki at knifecenter.com> wrote:
>> Is there a web interface built into mailman that allows me to post these
>> HTML messages to the list?
> No, but there /are/ some fairly easy to use webmail solutions around.

What are some good webmail solutions?



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jul 18 20:20:56 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 13:20:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML Formatted Email
In-Reply-To: <C0E29CC6.2A1A3%ki@knifecenter.com>
References: <6fbe3da00607181110h1015dbbay7e8c4483e5d77106@mail.gmail.com>
	<C0E29CC6.2A1A3%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607181120u2acf935enf881ea79cab8c018@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/18/06, Ki Song <ki at knifecenter.com> wrote:
> What are some good webmail solutions?

We use Horde, but there might be something more straightforward. If
you have someone that knows a bit of PHP, it's pretty trivial to have
a page that generates an email.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From ki at knifecenter.com  Tue Jul 18 21:44:05 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 15:44:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML Formatted Email
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00607181120u2acf935enf881ea79cab8c018@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C0E2B245.2A1F6%ki@knifecenter.com>

> On 7/18/06, Ki Song <ki at knifecenter.com> wrote:
>> What are some good webmail solutions?
> 
> We use Horde, but there might be something more straightforward. If
> you have someone that knows a bit of PHP, it's pretty trivial to have
> a page that generates an email.
> 
Thanks for the suggestion. After some research, it looks like Horde and
Squirrel Mail are some good options.

Question: Does Horde and/or Squirrel Mail send HTML Mail that is sent as
source code? I've found that these programs allow me to send HTML email that
is already FORMATTED, but I want to be able to just copy/paste HTML code
from an HTML editor (Dreamweaver) and insert it into the body of the e-mail.
Then, I just want to tell the mail composer that I am sending HTML Source
Code that is supposed to be formatted after I send the message.



From cpz at tuunq.com  Tue Jul 18 21:55:13 2006
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 12:55:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML Formatted Email
In-Reply-To: <C0E2B245.2A1F6%ki@knifecenter.com> from Ki Song at "Jul 18, 2006
	03:44:05 pm"
Message-ID: <20060718195513.CC3FA7AF@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Ki Song wrote:

> Question: Does Horde and/or Squirrel Mail send HTML Mail that is sent as
> source code? I've found that these programs allow me to send HTML email that
> is already FORMATTED, but I want to be able to just copy/paste HTML code
> from an HTML editor (Dreamweaver) and insert it into the body of the e-mail.
> Then, I just want to tell the mail composer that I am sending HTML Source
> Code that is supposed to be formatted after I send the message.

I think you really need to be researching these on the lists/websites
for those programs. Likewise for other mail clients & html editors. Not
to put words in other people's mouths, but this is a list for mailman,
not for squirrelmail, thunderbird, postfix, etc.

I'd start with google.

z!


From ki at knifecenter.com  Tue Jul 18 22:45:26 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:45:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Scaling Question
Message-ID: <C0E2C0A6.2A227%ki@knifecenter.com>

First, I'd like to thank everyone for helping me through this installation.
I made it so much harder than it needed to be (made 2 installations at the
beginning, and forgot about the first installation)!

Anyways, I just wanted to hear some feedback as far as the scalability of
mailman. I have a mailing list of approximately 50,000+ subscribers. I just
wanted to know if mailman would be able to handle it without any issues.

I am on a business cable connection with approx 384k upstream / 6000k
downstream.



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Jul 18 22:49:46 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 15:49:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Scaling Question
In-Reply-To: <C0E2C0A6.2A227%ki@knifecenter.com>
References: <C0E2C0A6.2A227%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607181349g66c58360v2cfc5c8673c9999c@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/18/06, Ki Song <ki at knifecenter.com> wrote:
> Anyways, I just wanted to hear some feedback as far as the scalability of
> mailman. I have a mailing list of approximately 50,000+ subscribers. I just
> wanted to know if mailman would be able to handle it without any issues.
>
> I am on a business cable connection with approx 384k upstream / 6000k
> downstream.

See FAQ 1.15 <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.015.htp>

I'm not sure about bandwidth issues, but I think that you should have
enough, especially with the fact that a lot of those probably have
common mail servers, so you only have to send one message (more or
less).

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From dewey at ku.edu  Wed Jul 19 01:05:51 2006
From: dewey at ku.edu (Dewhirst, Rob)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:05:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Rebuilding archives, stop mailman?
Message-ID: <C9F4FE51E4DB3B4EBCA6B115331EB72304F9285E@MAILBOXTWO.home.ku.edu>

I am importing about 66MB worth of converted mail into an active list
.mbox file.  Should I shutdown mailman while I do this?  Basically I
want to know what mailman will do if the listname.mbox file is gone for
a few minutes.


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Wed Jul 19 01:48:46 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:48:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Rebuilding archives, stop mailman?
In-Reply-To: <C9F4FE51E4DB3B4EBCA6B115331EB72304F9285E@MAILBOXTWO.home.k u.edu>
References: <C9F4FE51E4DB3B4EBCA6B115331EB72304F9285E@MAILBOXTWO.home.ku.edu>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060718164649.063938e8@crimson-dragon.com>

Dewhirst, Rob sent the message below at 16:05 7/18/2006:
>I am importing about 66MB worth of converted mail into an active list
>.mbox file.  Should I shutdown mailman while I do this?  Basically I
>want to know what mailman will do if the listname.mbox file is gone for
>a few minutes.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

My suggestion to minimize impact is to create a copy of the .mbox 
file in another directory, edit it as needed. Shut down mailman, move 
the file over to where it needs to be using the mv command. Restart mailman.

Better safe than sorry.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jul 19 01:55:44 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 16:55:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Quick spam regex question
In-Reply-To: <C0E29417.1B5D5%jrlamar@owu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC174020060718165544032828a2fcf4@msapiro>

Jason LaMar wrote:

>Thanks for helping me out with this. As a follow-up question, because
>(obviously) I'm a regexp newbie: If I wanted to use this statement as a
>basis ...
>
>\nfrom:[^@]*@(?!fubar.com[>\s])
>
>... BUT I also wanted to allow messages from any fubar.com sub-domain
>(mail.fubar.com, as an example), how should I modify this regexp to
>accommodate that? If it would make it any easier, the specific (additional)
>sub-domain I would need would be cc.fubar.com.


Actually, my original regexp is not quite right. In practice it
probably makes no difference, but fubar.com in the above will also
match and accept fubarxcom or fubarzcom, etc. since . matches
anything, but since without an actual ., it wouldn't be a valid
domain, it really doesn't matter. The strictly correct version of the
above is

\nfrom:[^@]*@(?!fubar\.com[>\s])

i.e, put a \ in front of the . to make it match literally a .

For fubar.com and cc.fubar.com, you could use

\nfrom:[^@]*@(?!(cc\.)?fubar\.com[>\s])

which will match 0 or 1 'cc.' followed by fubar.com or you could use

\nfrom:[^@]*@(?![^@>\s]*fubar\.com[>\s])

which will match 0 or more of any single character except @, > or white
space followed by fubar.com.

There are lots of other ways to do this too, but those should get what
you want.

A different approach which is more flexible for adding more domains is
to have a series of 'accept' rules each matching a simple pattern (or
one accept rule with multiple patterns) followed by a discard rule
that matches anything. E.g., in the accept rule put

\nfrom:[^@]*@fubar\.com[>\s]
\nfrom:[^@]*@cc\.fubar\.com[>\s]

and in the discard rule just put

^

(which will match at the beginning of the headers string and thus will
match any message at all and discard any message that wasn't matched
in the preceding rule(s)). Then you can easily add additional patterns
to the accept rule if it becomes necessary to accept additional
domains.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dewey at ku.edu  Wed Jul 19 02:03:08 2006
From: dewey at ku.edu (Dewhirst, Rob)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 19:03:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Rebuilding archives, stop mailman?
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060718164649.063938e8@crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <C9F4FE51E4DB3B4EBCA6B115331EB72304F92860@MAILBOXTWO.home.ku.edu>


> My suggestion to minimize impact is to create a copy of the 
> .mbox file in another directory, edit it as needed. Shut down 
> mailman, move the file over to where it needs to be using the 
> mv command. Restart mailman.
> 
> Better safe than sorry.

that very close to my plan -- I've already done the editing and /arch
--wipe on a test system, but my main question was whether or not mailman
should be running while the arch script was running.  Sounds like it's
not a good idea, which was my suspicion.


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jul 19 02:26:55 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 17:26:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not sending password reminders,
	subscription confirmations
In-Reply-To: <000801c6aa3c$64c416d0$609b65c1@vpe.de>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607181726550890ec17ad31@msapiro>

Helmut Schneider wrote:

>From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
>
>> You might try setting up another test_list with an underscore in the
>> name and see if that fails too.
>
>Does no fail. Is there a way to backup everything and then recreate those 
>two lists?


A combination of bin/config_list and bin/list_members can be used to
dump the list config and the digest and non-digest membership which
can be then applied to a new list with bin/config_list and
bin/add_members, but this does not preserve all user options.

Before doing this, I would suggest using bin/config_list to dump the
configurations of a problem list and a working list and diff the
results. If this doesn't reveal the problem, you can try the same
thing with the results of bin/dumpdb on the lists/listname/config.pck
files. For this latter diff, you'll have to ignore differences in
various attributes which are lists of members with other member info,
but if there is something peculiar in the config of these lists which
causes the problem, this should reveal it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Wed Jul 19 02:59:10 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 17:59:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Rebuilding archives, stop mailman?
In-Reply-To: <C9F4FE51E4DB3B4EBCA6B115331EB72304F92860@MAILBOXTWO.home.k u.edu>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060718164649.063938e8@crimson-dragon.com>
	<C9F4FE51E4DB3B4EBCA6B115331EB72304F92860@MAILBOXTWO.home.ku.edu>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060718175554.07f73fd8@crimson-dragon.com>

Dewhirst, Rob sent the message below at 05:03 PM 7/18/2006:

> > My suggestion to minimize impact is to create a copy of the
> > .mbox file in another directory, edit it as needed. Shut down
> > mailman, move the file over to where it needs to be using the
> > mv command. Restart mailman.
> >
> > Better safe than sorry.
>
>that very close to my plan -- I've already done the editing and /arch
>--wipe on a test system, but my main question was whether or not mailman
>should be running while the arch script was running.  Sounds like it's
>not a good idea, which was my suspicion.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Good question, though I don't think it matters much when running the 
arch script. But I could be wrong...

It never hurts to take the conservative approach though. I'd say shut 
it down and do the update during a low traffic period like late at night.



Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jul 19 03:20:40 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:20:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: FW: No One Can Post a Message but the Server
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00607181059j22b1a0b3m9ca06940652990d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607181820400781537162d5@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>On 7/18/06, Greg Sims <greg at headingup.net> wrote:
>> We did not use "<" and ">" around the password.  It seems like we still need
>> to figure out why the newsletter was not distributed this morning and why
>> the moderation bit is not being set for new subscribers.
>
>Can you check your vette log to see what the reason was for discarding
>the message?


Yes. please check the vette log.

Regarding the other issues, the contents of the header (following
Approved:) must be exactly the list admin or moderator password. There
may be 0 or more spaces between Approved: and the password, but there
must be no characters and no trailing spaces after the password.

If the list's Privacy options->Sender
filters->default_member_moderation is Yes, new members should be
moderated. Note that this is a list attribute, not the
Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py setting DEFAULT_DEFAULT_MEMBER_MODERATION which
only sets the default for a new list. I don't see in the code how a
new member can avoid having their mod bit set to the Privacy
options->Sender filters->default_member_moderation setting.	

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jul 19 03:43:58 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 18:43:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listinfo page
In-Reply-To: <44BCE874.8000304@psb.ugent.be>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607181843580562a9d4308c@msapiro>

Dany Cuyt wrote:
>
>If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact 
>mailman at maillists.psb.ugent.be <mailto:mailman at maillists.psb.ugent.be>
>
>How can I change the mail address at the end to contact in case of 
>trouble using the lists. mailman at maillists.psb.ugent.be should be 
>mailman at psb.ugent.be. The rest of mailman is working fine.


This indicates a problem in Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py with the definition
of the VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary. If you have no other virtual hosts,
DEFAULT_URL_HOST should be 'maillists.psb.ugent.be' and
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST should be 'psb.ugent.be'. If these are not the
settings in Defaults.py, you need to have

DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'maillists.psb.ugent.be'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'psb.ugent.be'.
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

in mm_cfg.py. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From greg at headingup.net  Wed Jul 19 04:09:42 2006
From: greg at headingup.net (Greg Sims)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 19:09:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: FW: No One Can Post a Message but the Server
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607181820400781537162d5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <002901c6aad8$660f89b0$650a2b0a@WS>

Guys,

I found /var/log/vette and see an entry that matches the time the newsletter
cron was run.  Here is the log entry:

Jul 18 04:23:01 2006 (8553) Message discarded, msgid:
<20060718112301.22011.qmail at raystedman.org>

I hope this gives you more clues.  Is there some way for mailman to be
verbose in the logs?

With respect to the moderator bit not being set on new subscriptions to the
list -- I believe I saw a timing problem that is not longer an issue.  I
followed your suggestion to set the moderated bit for all subscribers
initially.  I believe someone might have been in the process of subscribing
at the time I did this.  I now see additional new subscriptions with the
moderated but set. I believe this portion of the problem is behind us.

Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 6:21 PM
To: Patrick Bogen; Greg Sims
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] FW: FW: No One Can Post a Message but the
Server

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>On 7/18/06, Greg Sims <greg at headingup.net> wrote:
>> We did not use "<" and ">" around the password.  It seems like we still
need
>> to figure out why the newsletter was not distributed this morning and why
>> the moderation bit is not being set for new subscribers.
>
>Can you check your vette log to see what the reason was for discarding
>the message?


Yes. please check the vette log.

Regarding the other issues, the contents of the header (following
Approved:) must be exactly the list admin or moderator password. There
may be 0 or more spaces between Approved: and the password, but there
must be no characters and no trailing spaces after the password.

If the list's Privacy options->Sender
filters->default_member_moderation is Yes, new members should be
moderated. Note that this is a list attribute, not the
Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py setting DEFAULT_DEFAULT_MEMBER_MODERATION which
only sets the default for a new list. I don't see in the code how a
new member can avoid having their mod bit set to the Privacy
options->Sender filters->default_member_moderation setting.	

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan





From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jul 19 04:39:20 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 19:39:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: FW: No One Can Post a Message but the Server
In-Reply-To: <002901c6aad8$660f89b0$650a2b0a@WS>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607181939200046ee6aa3e2@msapiro>

Greg Sims wrote:
>
>I found /var/log/vette and see an entry that matches the time the newsletter
>cron was run.  Here is the log entry:
>
>Jul 18 04:23:01 2006 (8553) Message discarded, msgid:
><20060718112301.22011.qmail at raystedman.org>
>
>I hope this gives you more clues.  Is there some way for mailman to be
>verbose in the logs?


I suggest until you get this debugged that you set Privacy
options...->Sender filters->member_moderation_action and Privacy
options...->Sender filters->generic_nonmember_action to Hold. Then the
vette log, the held message notice and the admindb interface will all
give the specific reason for the hold.

Also, if Content filtering->filter_content is Yes, set Content
filtering->filter_action to "Forward to List Owner".

Then after you get this debugged, you can set these back to Discard.

My best guess at this point is that your "Approved: pw" header has
trailing spaces.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From greg at headingup.net  Wed Jul 19 04:51:18 2006
From: greg at headingup.net (Greg Sims)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 19:51:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: FW: No One Can Post a Message but the Server
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607181939200046ee6aa3e2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <003401c6aade$360b4e10$650a2b0a@WS>

OK Mark -- Will do.

The bash script generates the approve header line in the newsletter header
with the following command:

	echo 'Approved: password' >>newsletter

This seems pretty straightforward with respect to trailing spaces. The
password is 12 characters long and contains upper and lower case characters.
I have verified that I can enter admindb for the list via the web using this
password.

Greg
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 7:39 PM
To: Greg Sims; 'Patrick Bogen'
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] FW: FW: No One Can Post a Message but the
Server

Greg Sims wrote:
>
>I found /var/log/vette and see an entry that matches the time the
newsletter
>cron was run.  Here is the log entry:
>
>Jul 18 04:23:01 2006 (8553) Message discarded, msgid:
><20060718112301.22011.qmail at raystedman.org>
>
>I hope this gives you more clues.  Is there some way for mailman to be
>verbose in the logs?


I suggest until you get this debugged that you set Privacy
options...->Sender filters->member_moderation_action and Privacy
options...->Sender filters->generic_nonmember_action to Hold. Then the
vette log, the held message notice and the admindb interface will all
give the specific reason for the hold.

Also, if Content filtering->filter_content is Yes, set Content
filtering->filter_action to "Forward to List Owner".

Then after you get this debugged, you can set these back to Discard.

My best guess at this point is that your "Approved: pw" header has
trailing spaces.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan





From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Jul 19 04:51:54 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 21:51:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML Formatted Email
In-Reply-To: <C0E29B88.2A19B%ki@knifecenter.com>
References: <C0E29B88.2A19B%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <p06200700c0e34e42412d@[10.0.1.213]>

At 2:07 PM -0400 2006-07-18, Ki Song wrote:

>  Is there a web interface built into mailman that allows me to post these
>  HTML messages to the list?

No.  See FAQ 1.26.

>  The reason I ask is because I was using a program called Listserv by LSoft
>  that allowed me to post message via a web interface and had a check mark
>  that allowed me to send messages as HTML.

Right, but Mailman freely available (free as in beer) open source 
software and is not a complete drop-in replacement for Listserv, 
which is a very expensive commercial program.

>  I'm guessing the best method to do what I want to do (send HTML newsletters)
>  is to:
>  - send a message to the list I created via an e-mail client like Outlook or
>  Thunderbird
>  - Make sure it is encoded as HTML

That's one way to do it, sure.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Jul 19 04:54:15 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 21:54:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML Formatted Email
In-Reply-To: <C0E29CC6.2A1A3%ki@knifecenter.com>
References: <C0E29CC6.2A1A3%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <p06200701c0e34ed7642d@[10.0.1.213]>

At 2:12 PM -0400 2006-07-18, Ki Song wrote:
>>  On 7/18/06, Ki Song <ki at knifecenter.com> wrote:
>>>  Is there a web interface built into mailman that allows me to post these
>>>  HTML messages to the list?
>>  No, but there /are/ some fairly easy to use webmail solutions around.
>
>  What are some good webmail solutions?

When looking at this problem at a previous employer, we found that 
IMP/Horde relied too much on JavaScript, and was not well-supported 
on many browsers.  We found that TWIG worked better for us.  Of 
course, this was many years ago, and things may have changed since 
then.  I have also used SquirrelMail, and it seems to be okay.

That's at least three different packages you could check out.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Jul 19 04:56:53 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 21:56:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Scaling Question
In-Reply-To: <C0E2C0A6.2A227%ki@knifecenter.com>
References: <C0E2C0A6.2A227%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <p06200702c0e34fa293a8@[10.0.1.213]>

At 4:45 PM -0400 2006-07-18, Ki Song wrote:

>  Anyways, I just wanted to hear some feedback as far as the scalability of
>  mailman. I have a mailing list of approximately 50,000+ subscribers. I just
>  wanted to know if mailman would be able to handle it without any issues.

See FAQ 1.15.

>  I am on a business cable connection with approx 384k upstream / 6000k
>  downstream.

A lot is going to depend on your hardware and your provider.  Many 
providers place limits on your ability to send outgoing e-mail, so 
even though your theoretical bandwidth might be suitable, in practice 
it may not work for you.

These are questions that you need to be talking about with your provider.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jul 19 05:07:52 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 20:07:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: FW: No One Can Post a Message but the Server
In-Reply-To: <003401c6aade$360b4e10$650a2b0a@WS>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607182007520293ee6aa4f9@msapiro>

Greg Sims wrote:

>OK Mark -- Will do.
>
>The bash script generates the approve header line in the newsletter header
>with the following command:
>
>	echo 'Approved: password' >>newsletter
>
>This seems pretty straightforward with respect to trailing spaces.


It certainly does. If you change the script to just generate the
newsletter file and not mail it, and you look at the file, do the
headers all look OK?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From greg at headingup.net  Wed Jul 19 06:35:52 2006
From: greg at headingup.net (Greg Sims)
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 21:35:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: FW: No One Can Post a Message but the Server
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607182007520293ee6aa4f9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <003901c6aaec$d1870b50$650a2b0a@WS>


The headers all look great after doing what you suggested ... there is no
white space after the password.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 8:08 PM
To: Greg Sims; 'Patrick Bogen'
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] FW: FW: No One Can Post a Message but the
Server

Greg Sims wrote:

>OK Mark -- Will do.
>
>The bash script generates the approve header line in the newsletter header
>with the following command:
>
>	echo 'Approved: password' >>newsletter
>
>This seems pretty straightforward with respect to trailing spaces.


It certainly does. If you change the script to just generate the
newsletter file and not mail it, and you look at the file, do the
headers all look OK?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan





From gtnet at hok.juris.u-szeged.hu  Wed Jul 19 15:09:22 2006
From: gtnet at hok.juris.u-szeged.hu (gtnet at hok.juris.u-szeged.hu)
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:09:22 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subject filtering
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00607180715l38629217udab3c6659c0a3523@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060717222710.zlresdw5sqpwgwko@hok.juris.u-szeged.hu>
	<6fbe3da00607180715l38629217udab3c6659c0a3523@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060719150922.6cv5zora0b0g44k4@hok.juris.u-szeged.hu>

Hi Patrick!

I've tried to put the
"subject: .*\*SPAM\*.*" line into the bounce_matching_headers and it 
gave me an
error , i try to translate it to english from hungarian. : "in the bounce
matching headers box you must give a valid filter line, unless it will be
ignored"

and u asked me wheather *****SPAM***** is at the begining or at the end of the
subject: AT THE BEGINNING.

thanks for ur reply and for your help in advance!

greets

Tamas Gabor



> On 7/17/06, gtnet at hok.juris.u-szeged.hu <gtnet at hok.juris.u-szeged.hu> wrote:
>> My server is behind a router, and all the mails coming via that router. THAT
>> router tag the mails with a ****SPAM***** subject line when it reaches a
>> limited spam score.
>>
>> ANd now comes my problem: i cannot filter it out via the mailman admin
>> interface. all the spams get into the list, and my users and me getting
>> annoyed.
>
> Is the ****SPAM***** at the beginning or end of the subject? Or does
> it replace the subject?
>
> Anyway, add to Privacy Options > bounce_matching_headers:
> subject: .*\*SPAM\*.*
>
> ..This will match and filter anything that has '*SPAM*' in the subject.
> -- - Patrick Bogen
>
> P.s.:
> w8ing? Come on. :P
>



----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Jul 19 16:37:14 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:37:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subject filtering
In-Reply-To: <20060719150922.6cv5zora0b0g44k4@hok.juris.u-szeged.hu>
References: <20060717222710.zlresdw5sqpwgwko@hok.juris.u-szeged.hu>
	<6fbe3da00607180715l38629217udab3c6659c0a3523@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060719150922.6cv5zora0b0g44k4@hok.juris.u-szeged.hu>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607190737k79cc2119mdd1fb6161e71ade7@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/19/06, gtnet at hok.juris.u-szeged.hu <gtnet at hok.juris.u-szeged.hu> wrote:
> I've tried to put the
> "subject: .*\*SPAM\*.*" line into the bounce_matching_headers and it
> gave me an
> error , i try to translate it to english from hungarian. : "in the bounce
> matching headers box you must give a valid filter line, unless it will be
> ignored"

What version of mailman are you running? 2.1.8 doesn't seem to do any
validation on this field- or, at least, that regex is valid in my
setup. Perhaps someone else knows more about where this error is
coming from?

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From anne.ramey at ncmail.net  Wed Jul 19 16:45:05 2006
From: anne.ramey at ncmail.net (Anne Ramey)
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 10:45:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] stange domain/url question
Message-ID: <44BE4571.6020504@ncmail.net>

Not too long ago, we switched out domain from wwwadm.mydomain.com to 
lists.mydomain.com.  I used fix-url on all the lists, and when we create 
all lists now, we create then as
./newlist listname at lists.mydomain.com

But when the email is sent to the administrator for these new lists it 
has wwwadm.mydomain.com referenced in it:

There is also an email-based interface for users (not administrators)
of your list; you can get info about using it by sending a message
with just the word `help' as subject or in the body, to:

    annes.test-request at wwwadm.mydomain.com

To unsubscribe a user: from the mailing list 'listinfo' web page,
click on or enter the user's email address as if you were that user.
Where that user would put in their password to unsubscribe, put in
your admin password.  You can also use your password to change
member's options, including digestification, delivery disabling, etc.

Please address all questions to mailman-admin at wwwadm.mydomain.com


Does anyone know why this is happening?  Or how I get this to change to 
lists.mydomain.com?  My users are pretty much computer novices and this 
will confuse them.

Any assistance is appreciated.

Anne


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jul 19 17:01:11 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:01:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subject filtering
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00607190737k79cc2119mdd1fb6161e71ade7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607190801110453bdb19ab0@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>On 7/19/06, gtnet at hok.juris.u-szeged.hu <gtnet at hok.juris.u-szeged.hu> wrote:
>> I've tried to put the
>> "subject: .*\*SPAM\*.*" line into the bounce_matching_headers and it
>> gave me an
>> error , i try to translate it to english from hungarian. : "in the bounce
>> matching headers box you must give a valid filter line, unless it will be
>> ignored"
>
>What version of mailman are you running? 2.1.8 doesn't seem to do any
>validation on this field- or, at least, that regex is valid in my
>setup. Perhaps someone else knows more about where this error is
>coming from?


I think Patrick is correct here, but what exactly did you put in
bounce_matching headers. If it is exactly as above, it should be OK.
Also, the '.*' is not really necessary at the beginning and end of the
regexp since the regexp is found anywhere in the header, so you could
use just

subject: \*SPAM\*

and it would be the same.

You may not really want to use bounce_matching_headers since a match
there will cause the message to be held and you may want to discard
it. If you want it discarded, you have to use header_filter_rules.

You may also find it easier to look at a different Spamassassin header
such as the

X-Spam-Flag: Yes

header.


See <http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html>. Also see
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-July/052298.html>
for a bit of general information about header_filter_rules.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jul 19 17:23:47 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:23:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] stange domain/url question
In-Reply-To: <44BE4571.6020504@ncmail.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607190823470781dafd65dc@msapiro>

Anne Ramey wrote:

>Not too long ago, we switched out domain from wwwadm.mydomain.com to 
>lists.mydomain.com.  I used fix-url on all the lists, and when we create 
>all lists now, we create then as
>./newlist listname at lists.mydomain.com
>
<snip>
>
>you can get info about using it by sending a message
>with just the word `help' as subject or in the body, to:
>
>    annes.test-request at wwwadm.mydomain.com
>
<snip>
>
>Please address all questions to mailman-admin at wwwadm.mydomain.com


This makes no sense. It shouldn't be -admin because that's a Mailman
2.0.x artifact, but the 'mailman' site list didn't appear until 2.1.

Assuming this is a typo and is really mailman at wwwadm.mydomain.com, I
proceed.


>Does anyone know why this is happening?  Or how I get this to change to 
>lists.mydomain.com?  My users are pretty much computer novices and this 
>will confuse them.


This is really the same issue as
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-July/052345.html>
which see.

If you only have the one domain, and it is DEFAULT_URL_HOST and
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and is the only entry in VIRTUAL_HOSTS, you
shouldn't need to specify a domain to newlist and everything should be
OK.

In your case, the domain in the mailman address comes directly from a
lookup of DEFAULT_URL_HOST in the VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary. The domain
in the list-request address is the host_name attribute of the list (on
the General Settings page) which came from a lookup of
lists.mydomain.com (based on your newlist command) in VIRTUAL_HOSTS or
if not found, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From gtnet at hok.juris.u-szeged.hu  Wed Jul 19 19:49:49 2006
From: gtnet at hok.juris.u-szeged.hu (gtnet at hok.juris.u-szeged.hu)
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 19:49:49 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subject filtering
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607190801110453bdb19ab0@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200607190801110453bdb19ab0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060719194949.mlzhfqqb6ven4kco@hok.juris.u-szeged.hu>

Id?zet (Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>):

> Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
>> On 7/19/06, gtnet at hok.juris.u-szeged.hu <gtnet at hok.juris.u-szeged.hu> wrote:
>>> I've tried to put the
>>> "subject: .*\*SPAM\*.*" line into the bounce_matching_headers and it
>>> gave me an
>>> error , i try to translate it to english from hungarian. : "in the bounce
>>> matching headers box you must give a valid filter line, unless it will be
>>> ignored"
>>
>> What version of mailman are you running? 2.1.8 doesn't seem to do any
>> validation on this field- or, at least, that regex is valid in my
>> setup. Perhaps someone else knows more about where this error is
>> coming from?
>

my mailman v is 2.1.5

>
> I think Patrick is correct here, but what exactly did you put in
> bounce_matching headers. If it is exactly as above, it should be OK.
> Also, the '.*' is not really necessary at the beginning and end of the
> regexp since the regexp is found anywhere in the header, so you could
> use just
>
> subject: \*SPAM\*

i tried with it also  on bounce matching header , but i got the same error as
above.

>
> and it would be the same.
>
> You may not really want to use bounce_matching_headers since a match
> there will cause the message to be held and you may want to discard
> it. If you want it discarded, you have to use header_filter_rules.

Yes, it'd be better not to discard each spam.

>
> You may also find it easier to look at a different Spamassassin header
> such as the
>
> X-Spam-Flag: Yes
>
> header.


i've looked into the spam mail header, and i see these:
X-SZTE-Spam-Status: YES
X-Spam-Status: YES
X-Spam-Flag: YES

SZTE is my univ mail firewall server and it make this tag on the spams' header
so whit this "new" info, what dou suggest me to do, to filter spam by subject?


thanks you folks!
greets:
Tamas Gabor
>
>
> See <http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html>. Also see
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-July/052298.html>
> for a bit of general information about header_filter_rules.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>



----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.



From greg at headingup.net  Wed Jul 19 19:54:35 2006
From: greg at headingup.net (Greg Sims)
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 10:54:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: FW: No One Can Post a Message but the Server
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607181939200046ee6aa3e2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <001c01c6ab5c$664581d0$650a2b0a@WS>

And the answer is ... The newsletter was held.

[1] Subject: God's Vineyard -- The Power of His Presence 
  Size: 6493 bytes 
  Reason: Post by non-member to a members-only list 
  Received: Wed Jul 19 04:23:01 2006

The header line in the newsletter looks like this:
	From: Devotional at RayStedman.org
This is also the name of the list that manages the newsletter distribution.

The account the mail is sent from is lambert at RayStedman.org.  This is simply
a server userid where the cron script is executed.  No one receives mail on
this server account and there is no pop mailbox setup for this user name.

More clues!  Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 7:39 PM
To: Greg Sims; 'Patrick Bogen'
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] FW: FW: No One Can Post a Message but the
Server

Greg Sims wrote:
>
>I found /var/log/vette and see an entry that matches the time the
newsletter
>cron was run.  Here is the log entry:
>
>Jul 18 04:23:01 2006 (8553) Message discarded, msgid:
><20060718112301.22011.qmail at raystedman.org>
>
>I hope this gives you more clues.  Is there some way for mailman to be
>verbose in the logs?


I suggest until you get this debugged that you set Privacy
options...->Sender filters->member_moderation_action and Privacy
options...->Sender filters->generic_nonmember_action to Hold. Then the
vette log, the held message notice and the admindb interface will all
give the specific reason for the hold.

Also, if Content filtering->filter_content is Yes, set Content
filtering->filter_action to "Forward to List Owner".

Then after you get this debugged, you can set these back to Discard.

My best guess at this point is that your "Approved: pw" header has
trailing spaces.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan





From anne.ramey at ncmail.net  Wed Jul 19 20:08:41 2006
From: anne.ramey at ncmail.net (Anne Ramey)
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:08:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] stange domain/url question
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607190823470781dafd65dc@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200607190823470781dafd65dc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <44BE7529.2000303@ncmail.net>


Mark Sapiro wrote:
<snip>
>> >
>> >Please address all questions to mailman-admin at wwwadm.mydomain.com
>>     
> This makes no sense. It shouldn't be -admin because that's a Mailman
> 2.0.x artifact, but the 'mailman' site list didn't appear until 2.1.
>
> Assuming this is a typo and is really mailman at wwwadm.mydomain.com, I
> proceed.
>
>   
You are incorrect.  That is not a typo...it was copied and pasted from 
the email I was sent this morning when I did a test.  I'm running 2.1.8, 
but it's been upgraded time and again.

>> Does anyone know why this is happening?  Or how I get this to change to 
>> lists.mydomain.com?  My users are pretty much computer novices and this 
>> will confuse them.
>>     
>
>
> This is really the same issue as
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-July/052345.html>
> which see.
>
> If you only have the one domain, and it is DEFAULT_URL_HOST and
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and is the only entry in VIRTUAL_HOSTS, you
> shouldn't need to specify a domain to newlist and everything should be
> OK.
>
> In your case, the domain in the mailman address comes directly from a
> lookup of DEFAULT_URL_HOST in the VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary. The domain
> in the list-request address is the host_name attribute of the list (on
> the General Settings page) which came from a lookup of
> lists.mydomain.com (based on your newlist command) in VIRTUAL_HOSTS or
> if not found, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST.
>   
My default url host was still the old.  I'll change it and see if that 
makes the difference.
Anne


From qralston+ml.mailman-users at andrew.cmu.edu  Wed Jul 19 19:53:41 2006
From: qralston+ml.mailman-users at andrew.cmu.edu (James Ralston)
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 13:53:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rejecting spam disables local subscribers on remote
	lists
Message-ID: <27E32D5CB3587FDD1D548611@emerald.sei.cmu.edu>

We recently implemented a policy such that any incoming message that
scores higher than 10 with SpamAssassin is rejected at our MX servers
with:

    550 5.7.0 message not delivered due to suspect content

We've discovered that this policy has interaction problems with
recipients at our site who are subscribed to external mailing lists.
Here's what happens:

    1.  Someone at our site is subscribed to a random Mailman mailing
        list on the Internet.

    2.  The owners of the mailing list have made little to no attempt
        to filter spam.  As a result, the mailing list passes on spam
        to subscribers at our site.

    3.  We detect the spam that Mailman attempts to relay to our
        subscribers and reject it per above.

    4.  Mailman, upon receiving the bounces, assumes that the messages
        bounced because the recipient addresses are no longer valid,
        and disables and/or removes them.

    5.  Our users, upon being given the brush-off by Mailman at the
        remote site, blame us.

The fundamental problem is that the owners of the mailing list, by not
taking steps to protect their list from spam, are essentially
operating an opt-in spam amplification and relaying system.  But given
that we have no control over how these individuals [mis]manage their
mailing lists, we are pondering how to best address this issue on our
end.

I just looked at Mailman/Bouncers/DSN.py, to see if Mailman was
looking at the Status field of the message/delivery-status part, but
alas, Mailman only pays attention to the Action field.  Therefore, no
matter what we return as the DSN code, Mailman will assume that any
permanent failure occurred because the recipient address was invalid.

One possibility would be to not reject incoming messages if they
appear to be from Mailman.  (We use David Skoll's excellent MIMEDefang
package, so we easily have this capability.)  But spammers are a
devious and clever lot; I have no doubts that they'd quickly realize
that they could bypass our spam blocking simply by adding a few
Mailman headers to their messages.

Another possibility would be to allow our recipients to opt out of the
spam rejecting.  But this is a last-ditch option.

Have others encountered this situation?  If so, how did you deal with
it?

Thanks,
James



From tmiller at eagle-designs.com  Wed Jul 19 23:05:25 2006
From: tmiller at eagle-designs.com (Tiffany Miller)
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:05:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.7.cp2
Message-ID: <0a0f01c6ab77$0edb2a60$9865fea9@TiffOffice>

Mailman version: 2.1.7.cp2
Operating System: Linux
Apache version 1.3.36 (unix)

I was trying to edit the welcome message subscribers receive upon confirming subscription to a newsletter mailing list for my client.

I accessed the admin interface through cpanel and clicked on the link to "edit public html pages" then clicked on "welcome email text file." I made the necessary changes and clicked "submit changes."

That's when I received the *bug* message:

* * * * *

Bug in Mailman version 2.1.7.cp2

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.

* * * * *

I had previously edited the other files without a problem, and those versions are still in tact, performing perfectly. Now, I need to edit this welcome message and can't. I tried the FAQs, but no matches were found for my problem...including going through the full index.

Please advise.

Thank you,
Tiffany

__________________________
Eagle Designs
Custom Web and Graphic Design
"Soaring Above the Competition"
ph: 302-540-7681
fax: 302-834-2416
www.eagle-designs.com

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jul 19 23:10:36 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:10:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: FW: No One Can Post a Message but the Server
In-Reply-To: <001c01c6ab5c$664581d0$650a2b0a@WS>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607191410360906cd2e016e@msapiro>

Greg Sims wrote:

>And the answer is ... The newsletter was held.
>
>[1] Subject: God's Vineyard -- The Power of His Presence 
>  Size: 6493 bytes 
>  Reason: Post by non-member to a members-only list 
>  Received: Wed Jul 19 04:23:01 2006


The "Approved: pw" header is not working. I don't know why.

To debug further, look at Mailman/Handlers/Approve.py in the Mailman
installation.  Immediately following the lines:


from Mailman import mm_cfg
from Mailman import Errors


add the line

from Mailman.Logging.Syslog import syslog


Then about 26 lines further, you will see the following 3 lines:

    missing = []
    passwd = msg.get('approved', msg.get('approve', missing))
    if passwd is missing:

Add two lines so it reads:

    missing = []
    passwd = msg.get('approved', msg.get('approve', missing))
    syslog('error', 'List: %s, Approved pw ->%s<-',
            mlist.real_name, passwd)
    if passwd is missing:

Preserve the indentation exactly

Then do 'bin/mailmanctl restart'. This will put an entry in Mailman's
'error' log for each post that contains "List: listname, Approved pw
->%s<-" (with a time stamp and a pid), where %s is replaced either by
the contents of the Approved: (or Approve:) header or by "[]" if there
is no Approve(d): header.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jul 19 23:22:46 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:22:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.7.cp2
In-Reply-To: <0a0f01c6ab77$0edb2a60$9865fea9@TiffOffice>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607191422460468cd2dffc2@msapiro>

Tiffany Miller wrote:

>Mailman version: 2.1.7.cp2
>Operating System: Linux
>Apache version 1.3.36 (unix)


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>


>I was trying to edit the welcome message subscribers receive upon confirming subscription to a newsletter mailing list for my client.
>
>I accessed the admin interface through cpanel and clicked on the link to "edit public html pages" then clicked on "welcome email text file." I made the necessary changes and clicked "submit changes."
>
>That's when I received the *bug* message:
>
>* * * * *
>
>Bug in Mailman version 2.1.7.cp2
>
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
>Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.
>


If you have access to Mailman's 'error' log, please provide the
complete traceback from this error. Without this information, no one
has much of a clue as to why this happened.


>I had previously edited the other files without a problem, and those versions are still in tact, performing perfectly. Now, I need to edit this welcome message and can't. I tried the FAQs, but no matches were found for my problem...including going through the full index.


If you are able to 'see' the file system, you should see within
Mailman's structure a lists/<listname> directory where <listname> is
the name of your list followed by an underscore and the host domain,
and in that directory, there will be a config.pck and other files and
(assuming English language) an en/ subdirectory containing your edited
templates. If you can, you can look at the permissions of the files
and see what might be different about the subscribeack.txt file (which
is the welcome message) vs. the html files you previously edited.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jul 19 23:34:40 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:34:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subject filtering
In-Reply-To: <20060719194949.mlzhfqqb6ven4kco@hok.juris.u-szeged.hu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607191434400546cd2e000a@msapiro>

gtnet at hok.juris.u-szeged.hu wrote:
>>
>> subject: \*SPAM\*
>
>i tried with it also  on bounce matching header , but i got the same error as
>above.


Perhaps there is some issue with the character set. Those characters
must be entered as equivalent to us-ascii and must not be translated
by your web server.


>> You may also find it easier to look at a different Spamassassin header
>> such as the
>>
>> X-Spam-Flag: Yes
>>
>> header.
>
>
>i've looked into the spam mail header, and i see these:
>X-SZTE-Spam-Status: YES
>X-Spam-Status: YES
>X-Spam-Flag: YES
>
>SZTE is my univ mail firewall server and it make this tag on the spams' header
>so whit this "new" info, what dou suggest me to do, to filter spam by subject?

The prefixing of the subject with *****SPAM***** and the addition of
the X-Spam-Status: and X-Spam-Flag: headers is done by Spamassassin
(not a part of Mailman). I don't know about the X-SZTE-Spam-Status:
header. The easiest thing is to filter on the "X-Spam-Flag: YES"
header as that will be present only in "spam" and doesn't need special
characters. Just put

X-Spam-Flag: YES

in bounce_matching_headers, or if you want to use header_filter_rules,
you could just put

X-Spam-Flag:

as the rule since the header is only present in 'spam' and set the
action to Hold for testing, and if you are confident it is working,
you can set the action to Discard.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jul 19 23:47:49 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:47:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] stange domain/url question
In-Reply-To: <44BE7529.2000303@ncmail.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607191447490281cd2dff0a@msapiro>

Anne Ramey wrote:
>
>Mark Sapiro wrote:
><snip>
>>> >
>>> >Please address all questions to mailman-admin at wwwadm.mydomain.com
>>>     
>> This makes no sense. It shouldn't be -admin because that's a Mailman
>> 2.0.x artifact, but the 'mailman' site list didn't appear until 2.1.
>>   
>You are incorrect.  That is not a typo...it was copied and pasted from 
>the email I was sent this morning when I did a test.  I'm running 2.1.8, 
>but it's been upgraded time and again.


Well then is your site list named 'mailman-admin' (I assumed it was
'mailman')?


>My default url host was still the old.  I'll change it and see if that 
>makes the difference.


You need to not only make sure your DEFAULT_URL_HOST and
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST are correct, you also have to insure that old
values from Defaults.py are removed from VIRTUAL_HOSTS. You do this by
putting the following in mm_cfg.py:

# Remove old VIRTUAL_HOSTS entry from Defaults.py
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
# Set correct Domains
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'correct.web.domain'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'correct.email.domain'.
# Add to VIRTUAL_HOSTS
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

(You don't need the comments). Then restart Mailman (bin/mailmanctl
restart) and run fix_url on all lists via

bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jul 20 00:26:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 15:26:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rejecting spam disables local subscribers on
	remotelists
In-Reply-To: <27E32D5CB3587FDD1D548611@emerald.sei.cmu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607191526560703eb5d7117@msapiro>

James Ralston wrote:

>We recently implemented a policy such that any incoming message that
>scores higher than 10 with SpamAssassin is rejected at our MX servers
>with:
>
>    550 5.7.0 message not delivered due to suspect content


A SpamAssassin score of 10 is pretty liberal. I suspect your users are
getting copious spam from their list subscriptions with scores in the
< 3 to 9.9 range :-)


>We've discovered that this policy has interaction problems with
>recipients at our site who are subscribed to external mailing lists.
>Here's what happens:
>
>    1.  Someone at our site is subscribed to a random Mailman mailing
>        list on the Internet.
>
>    2.  The owners of the mailing list have made little to no attempt
>        to filter spam.  As a result, the mailing list passes on spam
>        to subscribers at our site.
>
>    3.  We detect the spam that Mailman attempts to relay to our
>        subscribers and reject it per above.
>
>    4.  Mailman, upon receiving the bounces, assumes that the messages
>        bounced because the recipient addresses are no longer valid,
>        and disables and/or removes them.
>
>    5.  Our users, upon being given the brush-off by Mailman at the
>        remote site, blame us.


Yes, I see the problem.


>The fundamental problem is that the owners of the mailing list, by not
>taking steps to protect their list from spam, are essentially
>operating an opt-in spam amplification and relaying system.  But given
>that we have no control over how these individuals [mis]manage their
>mailing lists, we are pondering how to best address this issue on our
>end.


And I wonder how the users separate the wheat from the chaff on these
lists and why they want to subscribe to them in the first place, but I
digress ...


>I just looked at Mailman/Bouncers/DSN.py, to see if Mailman was
>looking at the Status field of the message/delivery-status part, but
>alas, Mailman only pays attention to the Action field.  Therefore, no
>matter what we return as the DSN code, Mailman will assume that any
>permanent failure occurred because the recipient address was invalid.


Well, really just undeliverable. That's why bounce processing is
tunable to require bounces on n separate days with no m-day
bounce-free periods in between and to disable delivery and send a
number of warning messages at intervals before actually removing the
user.

But you're right, we could be more discerning about specific status,
but even if we change this, by the time these offending sites install
the upgrade, you will have solved the problem some other way anyway.


>One possibility would be to not reject incoming messages if they
>appear to be from Mailman.  (We use David Skoll's excellent MIMEDefang
>package, so we easily have this capability.)  But spammers are a
>devious and clever lot; I have no doubts that they'd quickly realize
>that they could bypass our spam blocking simply by adding a few
>Mailman headers to their messages.


You are possibly correct here, but I doubt that spammers would spend
the effort just for CMU (where the recipient base is possibly
sophisticated enough that their response rate is at the 'too low to
bother if there's any cost involved' level anyway).


>Another possibility would be to allow our recipients to opt out of the
>spam rejecting.  But this is a last-ditch option.


Actually, as a user, this would be the option I'd prefer, but I'm
probably not a typical user.


>Have others encountered this situation?  If so, how did you deal with
>it?


I don't recall seeing this on the list before, but I hope others will
jump in with ideas.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Jul 20 02:09:14 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 19:09:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rejecting spam disables local subscribers on
 remote lists
In-Reply-To: <27E32D5CB3587FDD1D548611@emerald.sei.cmu.edu>
References: <27E32D5CB3587FDD1D548611@emerald.sei.cmu.edu>
Message-ID: <p06200700c0e4792a4f09@[10.0.1.213]>

At 1:53 PM -0400 2006-07-19, James Ralston wrote:

>  Another possibility would be to allow our recipients to opt out of the
>  spam rejecting.  But this is a last-ditch option.

I'm in the process of writing an anti-spam article to be published on 
the LOPSA.org website.

Suffice it to say that, if you are a "service provider" of some sort 
to multiple customers, it is your responsibility to provide a way to 
either opt out of the anti-spam processing that you typically 
perform, or to give your users a way to customize those rules to suit 
their particular needs.

If you're not willing or able to do that, then you're not doing your 
job -- plain and simple.  In that circumstance, your customers should 
vote with their feet.  Their failure to vote with their feet does not 
absolve you of the responsibility to provide these features to them.


And yes, I include myself and my responsibilities as a member of the 
mail services/postmaster team at python.org in this list.

So far, we've gotten lucky and we've had to make relatively few 
customizations to the rules for specific users.  But I don't know how 
much longer that's going to last.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From tmiller at eagle-designs.com  Thu Jul 20 03:32:04 2006
From: tmiller at eagle-designs.com (Tiffany Miller)
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 21:32:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.7.cp2
References: <PC1740200607191422460468cd2dffc2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <0a7001c6ab9c$4f119cc0$9865fea9@TiffOffice>

Mark, thanks for the tips. Unfortunately, I do not have access to the root level of this web site, as it's hosted on another server. I'm almost to the point where I will have my own space on a server with access to the root level for my clients, but until then, I'm stuck.

So, I can't 'see' the mailman error logs or the file system. I can only view the file manager through my FTP program or cpanel. I checked the error logs for the site, but nothing shows from today.

And not sure if it helps, but when I try to edit *any* of the public html files for the newsletter list, I get the same error. Thankfully, the previous changes I made to other 3 files remained stored.

Any other suggestions?

Tiffany

__________________________
Eagle Designs
Custom Web and Graphic Design
"Soaring Above the Competition"
ph: 302-540-7681
fax: 302-834-2416
www.eagle-designs.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Mark Sapiro 
To: Tiffany Miller ; mailman-users at python.org 
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.7.cp2


Tiffany Miller wrote:

>Mailman version: 2.1.7.cp2
>Operating System: Linux
>Apache version 1.3.36 (unix)


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>


>I was trying to edit the welcome message subscribers receive upon confirming subscription to a newsletter mailing list for my client.
>
>I accessed the admin interface through cpanel and clicked on the link to "edit public html pages" then clicked on "welcome email text file." I made the necessary changes and clicked "submit changes."
>
>That's when I received the *bug* message:
>
>* * * * *
>
>Bug in Mailman version 2.1.7.cp2
>
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
>Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.
>


If you have access to Mailman's 'error' log, please provide the
complete traceback from this error. Without this information, no one
has much of a clue as to why this happened.


>I had previously edited the other files without a problem, and those versions are still in tact, performing perfectly. Now, I need to edit this welcome message and can't. I tried the FAQs, but no matches were found for my problem...including going through the full index.


If you are able to 'see' the file system, you should see within
Mailman's structure a lists/<listname> directory where <listname> is
the name of your list followed by an underscore and the host domain,
and in that directory, there will be a config.pck and other files and
(assuming English language) an en/ subdirectory containing your edited
templates. If you can, you can look at the permissions of the files
and see what might be different about the subscribeack.txt file (which
is the welcome message) vs. the html files you previously edited.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From Jon.Slater at LPBroadband.Net  Thu Jul 20 05:58:46 2006
From: Jon.Slater at LPBroadband.Net (Jon D. Slater)
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 21:58:46 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trying to tighten up my security...
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607171556480421689dc675@msapiro>
Message-ID: <038c01c6abb0$ccd80220$0a01a8c0@UgukuPC>


Okay... Next hitch...

I installed the patch, and tested it (by trying to send an e-mail to the
group from an e-mail that I knew wasn't in the group).  It was rejected (as
expected).

I just had an e-mail get through from a non-member!

The e-mail is from: "Bernardo Spicer" <BernardoSpicer at 1000000000.com>

Who is definitely *not* on any of my lists.

The group sender filter is set to 'Reject' postings from non-members for
which no explicit action is defined.

But, I was still notified.  Here's the full header of the message that
requested approval:

Received: from mxs.mail.ru ([203.146.112.225])
	by steeplechase-hoa.org (8.13.7/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6K3TmZt017041
	for <designreview at steeplechase-hoa.org>; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 21:30:03
-0600
Message-Id: <200607200330.k6K3TmZt017041 at steeplechase-hoa.org>
From: "Bernardo Spicer" <BernardoSpicer at 1000000000.com>
To: <designreview at steeplechase-hoa.org>
Subject: RE: wave surface
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 03:40:10 -0420
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478
Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative";
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006A_01C6ABE8.DFCD64A0"


Why did I get a request to approve this message?

Thanks!!!

Jon


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
> Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 4:57 PM
> To: Jon D. Slater
> Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Trying to tighten up my security...
> 
> >Since I'm running 2.1.8 (instead of 2.1.6 as the patch requires), I made
> the
> >changes by hand, which broke MM.  So now I've put it all back the way it
> was
> >and, at least, MM is back...  (Without the patch.)
> 
> 
> The 2.1.6 listinclusion patch applies cleanly to 2.1.8 without change.
> 
> cd path/to/2.1.8mailman/Mailman
> patch -p2 < path_to_listinclusion.patch
> 
> or
> 
> cd path/to/2.1.8mailman
> patch -p1 < path_to_listinclusion.patch
> 
> 
> After applying the patch you need to do 'mailmanctl restart' so
> IncomingRunner will pick up the change to Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py.
> 
> What broke?
> 
> When you patched by hand, did you preserve indentation exactly?
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 
> 
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/389 - Release Date: 7/14/2006




From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jul 20 07:55:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 22:55:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trying to tighten up my security...
In-Reply-To: <038c01c6abb0$ccd80220$0a01a8c0@UgukuPC>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607192255330718a09a1f6f@msapiro>

Jon D. Slater wrote:
>
>I installed the patch, and tested it (by trying to send an e-mail to the
>group from an e-mail that I knew wasn't in the group).  It was rejected (as
>expected).
>
>I just had an e-mail get through from a non-member!
>
>The e-mail is from: "Bernardo Spicer" <BernardoSpicer at 1000000000.com>
>
>Who is definitely *not* on any of my lists.
>
>The group sender filter is set to 'Reject' postings from non-members for
>which no explicit action is defined.
>
>But, I was still notified.  Here's the full header of the message that
>requested approval:
>
>Received: from mxs.mail.ru ([203.146.112.225])
>	by steeplechase-hoa.org (8.13.7/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6K3TmZt017041
>	for <designreview at steeplechase-hoa.org>; Wed, 19 Jul 2006 21:30:03
>-0600
>Message-Id: <200607200330.k6K3TmZt017041 at steeplechase-hoa.org>
>From: "Bernardo Spicer" <BernardoSpicer at 1000000000.com>
>To: <designreview at steeplechase-hoa.org>
>Subject: RE: wave surface
>Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 03:40:10 -0420
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>X-Priority: 3
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478
>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478
>Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative";
>boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006A_01C6ABE8.DFCD64A0"
>
>
>Why did I get a request to approve this message?


What was the reason in the approval notice you received (it's also in
the 'vette' log).

Do you have any header_filter_rules defined (in Privacy
options...->Spam filters) with Hold action? These are applied before
membership tests.


Also, it's not relevant to this issue, but I am still interested in the
entry from the 'error' log from the admindb "bug" from the first patch
attempt.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jul 20 08:17:23 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 23:17:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in Mailman version 2.1.7.cp2
In-Reply-To: <0a7001c6ab9c$4f119cc0$9865fea9@TiffOffice>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607192317230296ac13355f@msapiro>

Tiffany Miller wrote:

>So, I can't 'see' the mailman error logs or the file system. I can only view the file manager through my FTP program or cpanel. I checked the error logs for the site, but nothing shows from today.
>
>And not sure if it helps, but when I try to edit *any* of the public html files for the newsletter list, I get the same error. Thankfully, the previous changes I made to other 3 files remained stored.


Clearly something has changed, but I don't know what. It could be that
for some reason, the edithtml CGI as invoked by the web server no
longer has permission to access the list specific templates, but this
seems really unlikely, since it created them in the first place, and
presumably the web server can still access them to display them to
users.

Without knowing what's in Mailman's error log, I really haven't a clue.
The web server log will be no help because all the web server knows is
it invoked the edithtml CGI, and it got a page back. The page said
Mailman Bug, but the web server doesn't know that. As far as it's
concerned, everything is normal.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jumper99 at gmx.de  Thu Jul 20 09:29:35 2006
From: jumper99 at gmx.de (Helmut Schneider)
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 09:29:35 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not sending password reminders,
	subscription confirmations
References: <PC1740200607181726550890ec17ad31@msapiro>
Message-ID: <036001c6abce$40532000$609b65c1@vpe.de>

From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>

> Helmut Schneider wrote:
>
>>From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
>>
>>> You might try setting up another test_list with an underscore in the
>>> name and see if that fails too.
>>
>>Does no fail. Is there a way to backup everything and then recreate those
>>two lists?
>
>
> A combination of bin/config_list and bin/list_members can be used to
> dump the list config and the digest and non-digest membership which
> can be then applied to a new list with bin/config_list and
> bin/add_members, but this does not preserve all user options.
>
> Before doing this, I would suggest using bin/config_list to dump the
> configurations of a problem list and a working list and diff the
> results. If this doesn't reveal the problem, you can try the same
> thing with the results of bin/dumpdb on the lists/listname/config.pck
> files. For this latter diff, you'll have to ignore differences in
> various attributes which are lists of members with other member info,
> but if there is something peculiar in the config of these lists which
> causes the problem, this should reveal it.

I'll try.

Thanks, Helmut 



From anne.ramey at ncmail.net  Thu Jul 20 13:48:33 2006
From: anne.ramey at ncmail.net (Anne Ramey)
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 07:48:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] stange domain/url question
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607191447490281cd2dff0a@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200607191447490281cd2dff0a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <44BF6D91.2030309@ncmail.net>


Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Anne Ramey wrote:
>   
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> <snip>
>>     
>>>>> Please address all questions to mailman-admin at wwwadm.mydomain.com
>>>>>           
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>> This makes no sense. It shouldn't be -admin because that's a Mailman
>>> 2.0.x artifact, but the 'mailman' site list didn't appear until 2.1.
>>>   
>>>       
>> You are incorrect.  That is not a typo...it was copied and pasted from 
>> the email I was sent this morning when I did a test.  I'm running 2.1.8, 
>> but it's been upgraded time and again.
>>     
>
>
> Well then is your site list named 'mailman-admin' (I assumed it was
> 'mailman')?
>   
No, it's names mailman.  I can only assume the admin address is left 
over after upgrade.

>   
>> My default url host was still the old.  I'll change it and see if that 
>> makes the difference.
>>     
>
>
> You need to not only make sure your DEFAULT_URL_HOST and
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST are correct, you also have to insure that old
> values from Defaults.py are removed from VIRTUAL_HOSTS. You do this by
> putting the following in mm_cfg.py:
>
> # Remove old VIRTUAL_HOSTS entry from Defaults.py
> VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
> # Set correct Domains
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'correct.web.domain'
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'correct.email.domain'.
> # Add to VIRTUAL_HOSTS
> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>
> (You don't need the comments). Then restart Mailman (bin/mailmanctl
> restart) and run fix_url on all lists via
>
> bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url
>   
I think it may have been the clear command I was missing.  Thanks



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jul 20 17:10:18 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 08:10:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] stange domain/url question
In-Reply-To: <44BF6D91.2030309@ncmail.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607200810180781bf91665f@msapiro>

Anne Ramey wrote:
>
>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> Well then is your site list named 'mailman-admin' (I assumed it was
>> 'mailman')?
>>   
>No, it's names mailman.  I can only assume the admin address is left 
>over after upgrade.


I've looked more deeply and found it is a bug in pre-Mailman 2.1.6
bin/newlist. That address is created as x-y at z where x comes from the
Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py setting MAILMAN_SITE_LIST, y should be 'owner'
but pre-2.1.6 is 'admin', and z is the list's host_name attribute.

Fixing the VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary and DEFAULT_*_HOST in mm_cfg.py
will take care of the host_name for new lists.

If you can live with the mailman-admin address in the notice, that's
fine, but note that if you actually mail to that address, it will only
get to the 'mailman' list owner if unrecognized bounce forwarding is
on and will be forwarded as an unrecognized bounce.

If you want to fix this in pre-2.1.6, find the line

        siteadmin = Utils.get_site_email(mlist.host_name, 'admin')

and change it to

        siteadmin = Utils.get_site_email(mlist.host_name, 'owner')

in both bin/newlist and Mailman/Cgi/create.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kwz-mm at commpartners.com  Thu Jul 20 18:21:42 2006
From: kwz-mm at commpartners.com (Karl Zander)
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 12:21:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customizing Mailman Messages
Message-ID: <web-3101280@commpartners.com>

  
We are interesting in customizing some of the messages 
Mailman generates back to members.  We would like to 
customize the message a non-member gets if they try to 
post.

The FAQ talks about how to customize a welcome message for 
an announcement list.
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=all#3.11

Can I use the same technique, but modify the approve.txt 
file?

Is it possible to customize the message on the monthly 
password reminder?  We would like to send not only the 
password but use it to remind members of posting policies.

--Karl


From johnedwardclement at hotmail.com  Thu Jul 20 18:52:22 2006
From: johnedwardclement at hotmail.com (John Clement)
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:52:22 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] customising: from listname-bounce@domain on behalf
	of poster@theirdomain
Message-ID: <BAY102-F29F3EB6B9D3344B901A029B5610@phx.gbl>

I've setup mailman with qmail, using lists.domain.com so it works, then 
setup aliases for lists so we can still have ourlist at domain.com rather than 
ourlist at lists.domain.com, I've also added this to mailman's config so itss 
happy accepting posts to domain.com.

The only problem I have now is when a member receives a post they receive it 
as

[listname] listname at domain.com list posting.
listname-bounce at lists.domain.com on behalf of (orig poster)

I'd like to change listname-bounce at lists.domain.com to 
listname-admin at domain.com

I can find info on customising pretty much everything else but this! Any 
suggestions?

Thanks - jc




From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jul 20 19:24:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 10:24:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customizing Mailman Messages
In-Reply-To: <web-3101280@commpartners.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060720102441096848e1b171@msapiro>

Karl Zander wrote:
>
>The FAQ talks about how to customize a welcome message for 
>an announcement list.
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=all#3.11
>
>Can I use the same technique, but modify the approve.txt 
>file?


Yes, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>


>Is it possible to customize the message on the monthly 
>password reminder?  We would like to send not only the 
>password but use it to remind members of posting policies.


Yes, the template is cronpass.txt, but in this case, the message is not
for a specific list, so the modified template has to be in the
templates/site/<lang> directory/directories as described in FAQ 4.48.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jul 20 19:52:00 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 10:52:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] customising: from listname-bounce@domain on
	behalfof poster@theirdomain
In-Reply-To: <BAY102-F29F3EB6B9D3344B901A029B5610@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC174020060720105200042148e1af25@msapiro>

John Clement wrote:

>I've setup mailman with qmail, using lists.domain.com so it works, then 
>setup aliases for lists so we can still have ourlist at domain.com rather than 
>ourlist at lists.domain.com, I've also added this to mailman's config so itss 
>happy accepting posts to domain.com.
>
>The only problem I have now is when a member receives a post they receive it 
>as
>
>[listname] listname at domain.com list posting.
>listname-bounce at lists.domain.com on behalf of (orig poster)
>
>I'd like to change listname-bounce at lists.domain.com to 
>listname-admin at domain.com
>
>I can find info on customising pretty much everything else but this! Any 
>suggestions?


There are two different things going on here. For information on the
'on behalf of' as displayed by MS Outlook, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>

Changing any of this may require modification of the code in
Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.com. You can change -bounce to -admin by
changing

    if envsender is None:
        if mlist:
            envsender = mlist.GetBouncesEmail()
        else:
            envsender = Utils.get_site_email(extra='bounces')

in SMTPDirect.py to

    if envsender is None:
        if mlist:
            envsender = mlist.getListAddress('admin')
        else:
            envsender = Utils.get_site_email(extra='admin')

Bounce processing will still work OK since -admin is a (deprecated)
synonym for -bounces.

To fix the domain, If I understand your configuration correctly, you
can put (I'm changing domain to example per RFCs)

DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.example.com'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'example.com'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

in mm_cfg.py and do 'bin/mailmanctl restart'

Then you need to update the lists with

bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url

or in this case, if only DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST changed, you can skip
fix_url and change the host_name attribute on the admin General
Options page.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.069.htp>
and
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp>


You can also get rid of the 'on behalf of' all together by looking at
the lines

    del msg['sender']
    del msg['errors-to']
    msg['Sender'] = envsender
    msg['Errors-To'] = envsender

in the bulkdeliver() function in SMTPDirect.py.

To have outlook just say From: original poster, delete or comment

    msg['Sender'] = envsender

To have outlook say From: original sender (if any) on behalf of
original poster, also delete the line

    del msg['sender']

leaving onle the two 'errors-to' lines.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From fhouston at usa.net  Thu Jul 20 22:17:17 2006
From: fhouston at usa.net (FH)
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:17:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about topics
Message-ID: <849kgTuqR8032S25.1153426637@cmsweb25.cms.usa.net>

I'm trying to figure out how the topic feature works.  We have an expression
in the regexp box (ie Foo[1]) and the body lines variable is set to 0 since
the expression should be in the subject line.  However everyone on the list is
still receiving the messages sent w/ "Subject: Foo".  The filter is enabled,
the person who is subscribed to the topic also has "yes" on the "Do you want
to receive messages that do not match any topic filter?", everyone else (who
is not subscribed to the topic) has "no" for this.  BTW we are using mailman
2.1.5.

At first I thought it might be a problem w/ the regexp, but reading through
the archives I found 
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg34182.html
"Members who don't select topics continue to receive all posts. "
and the wording on the end of the "Do you want to receive..." question ("If no
topics of interest are selected above, then you will receive every message
sent to the mailing list.") is bringing up the question of whether or not the
list/membership is configured properly.  Do I have to change something on the
membership page of those who are NOT to receive the messages related to the
topic I'm trying to configure (it's the only one btw)?  If so what needs to
change and is there any way to configure the topic such that only those who
are interested have it configured and everyone else is left alone (it's a
relatively small list but it seems very cumbersome to change everyone if a
single topic is added to a large list).


Any suggestions would be appreciated.  If there's more info that is needed
please let me know and I'll see if I can get it to you.

Thanks


[1] we've also tried 
^foo
^*foo
\*foo
\*foo\*
and probably a few other derivations that I can't recall off hand ;)




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 21 00:21:20 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:21:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about topics
In-Reply-To: <849kgTuqR8032S25.1153426637@cmsweb25.cms.usa.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607201521200671cba45fb3@msapiro>

FH wrote:

>I'm trying to figure out how the topic feature works.  We have an expression
>in the regexp box (ie Foo[1]) and the body lines variable is set to 0 since
>the expression should be in the subject line.  However everyone on the list is
>still receiving the messages sent w/ "Subject: Foo".  The filter is enabled,
>the person who is subscribed to the topic also has "yes" on the "Do you want
>to receive messages that do not match any topic filter?", everyone else (who
>is not subscribed to the topic) has "no" for this.  BTW we are using mailman
>2.1.5.


The person subscribed to Foo should receive all posts because of "Yes"
for "Do you want to receive messages that do not match any topic
filter?"

The people not subscribed to any topics should receive all posts
because as it says "Do you want to receive messages that do not match
any topic filter?" "only takes effect if you've subscribed to at least
one topic above".

In short, Your list is working as it should. In order to filter on
Topics, the user MUST subscribe to at least one topic. Otherwise, the
user always receives all posts.


>At first I thought it might be a problem w/ the regexp,


There might be. If it is literally 'foo' as you say, it is OK. It is
also OK if it contains no white space or # characters, but although it
doesn't say so, the regexp is compiled in verbose mode which means #
introduces a comment and whitespace is ignored so to include either a
# or whitespace in the regexp, it must be backslash escaped or in a
character class. This is changed for Mailman 2.2 (not yet released)
and existing topic regexps will be converted if necessary when you
upgrade.


>but reading through
>the archives I found 
>http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg34182.html
>"Members who don't select topics continue to receive all posts. "
>and the wording on the end of the "Do you want to receive..." question ("If no
>topics of interest are selected above, then you will receive every message
>sent to the mailing list.") is bringing up the question of whether or not the
>list/membership is configured properly.  Do I have to change something on the
>membership page of those who are NOT to receive the messages related to the
>topic I'm trying to configure (it's the only one btw)?  If so what needs to
>change and is there any way to configure the topic such that only those who
>are interested have it configured and everyone else is left alone (it's a
>relatively small list but it seems very cumbersome to change everyone if a
>single topic is added to a large list).
>
>
>Any suggestions would be appreciated.  If there's more info that is needed
>please let me know and I'll see if I can get it to you.


If I understand correctly, You want to have a 'foo' topic, and some
people want to get all messages and some want all messages except
those matching the 'foo' topic.

If I have it right, you can't do this the way you are trying to. You
have two possible options as I see it.

1) instead of defining a 'foo' topic, define a 'not foo' topic. This
may or may not be possible, but a regexp like

(?!.*foo)

might work. See <http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html>.

Then people who want all messages don't subscribe to any topics and
people who want just 'not foo' messages subscribe to the 'not foo'
topic and say "no" to "Do you want to receive messages that do not
match any topic filter?"

I think a better method is

2) Define a 'foo' topic as you have. Also define a 'none' topic with a
regexp such as '$.' that won't match anything. Then people who want
all posts subscribe to 'foo' (and 'none' if they want) and say 'yes'
to "Do you want to receive messages that do not match any topic
filter?"

People who don't want 'foo' subscribe to only 'none' and also say 'yes'
to "Do you want to receive messages that do not match any topic
filter?"
They won't receive 'foo' posts because they are subscribed to a topic
and they are not subscribed to 'foo', but they will receive all other
(non-matching) posts.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 21 00:44:05 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 15:44:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about topics
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607201521200671cba45fb3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC174020060720154405004681700b93@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>FH wrote:
>
>>... is there any way to configure the topic such that only those who
>>are interested have it configured and everyone else is left alone (it's a
>>relatively small list but it seems very cumbersome to change everyone if a
>>single topic is added to a large list).


I didn't address this directly in my first reply, but the answer is No.
No matter how topics are defined, any user who doesn't want to receive
all posts must be subscribed to at least one topic. The default user
receives all posts which is I think what most lists want.

What you are asking is not really for everyone else to be left alone.
You are asking for the ability to passively exclude users from
receiving certain messages by putting those messages in a topic. I
don't think this is fair to the users in general. I think it is up to
the user to actively choose not to receive all messages.

I realize your situation may be different, but instead of trying to set
up the users, you could just post instructions to the list and let
each user set herself up as she desires.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From bgmahesh at gmail.com  Fri Jul 21 08:36:09 2006
From: bgmahesh at gmail.com (BG Mahesh)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:06:09 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fedora 5/Mailman: Lot of memory being used while
	sending email
Message-ID: <5227ac5c0607202336m2366bb59ga146d875722931c6@mail.gmail.com>

hi

The configuration of our setup is

Mailman: 2.1.8
Processor: Xeon 3GHz dual processor
2GB RAM server with 80GB SATA
Fedora 5.x

When we post anything on a list that has about 360k email ids, python is
using 4GB of memory
[2 GB physical and 2 GB of virtual] and the process is taking a long time
[to send out emails]

How do  I fine tune it?

--
B.G. Mahesh


From cpz at tuunq.com  Fri Jul 21 09:06:53 2006
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 00:06:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fedora 5/Mailman: Lot of memory being used
 while sending email
In-Reply-To: <5227ac5c0607202336m2366bb59ga146d875722931c6@mail.gmail.com> from
	BG Mahesh at "Jul 21, 2006 12:06:09 pm"
Message-ID: <20060721070653.9B0177AE@mail.tuunq.com>

B.G. Mahesh wrote:

> When we post anything on a list that has about 360k email ids, python is
> using 4GB of memory
> [2 GB physical and 2 GB of virtual] and the process is taking a long time
> [to send out emails]
> 
> How do  I fine tune it?

You might start with FAQ 4.11 and possibly the appropriate part of
section 6 for your MTA.  See the footer for the URL.

z!


From johnedwardclement at hotmail.com  Fri Jul 21 11:42:33 2006
From: johnedwardclement at hotmail.com (John Clement)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 09:42:33 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] customising: from listname-bounce@domain on
	behalfof poster@
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060720105200042148e1af25@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BAY102-F30AC973FDE2FA93E53C83AB5660@phx.gbl>

>Changing any of this may require modification of the code in
>Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.com. You can change -bounce to -admin by
>changing
>
>     if envsender is None:
>         if mlist:
>             envsender = mlist.GetBouncesEmail()
>         else:
>             envsender = Utils.get_site_email(extra='bounces')
>
>in SMTPDirect.py to
>
>     if envsender is None:
>         if mlist:
>             envsender = mlist.getListAddress('admin')
>         else:
>             envsender = Utils.get_site_email(extra='admin')
>
>Bounce processing will still work OK since -admin is a (deprecated)
>synonym for -bounces.

Thanks Mark, that's exactly what I needed!  Its all working just as the old 
server is now, which is just what the powers that be are after.

Thanks again!

john




From ldb at freestandards.org  Fri Jul 21 13:52:22 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 07:52:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list automatically removing users
Message-ID: <44C0BFF6.7060003@freestandards.org>

I do not have bounce processing enabled but yet one morning
I have a list of about 15 users unsubscribed from the list.
According to logs, they all look like this,


  someone at example.com auto-unsubscribed [reason: BYBOUNCE]


This obviously says it was removed because of some
measure of bounces were exceeded. But once again, I do not
have bounce processing enabled.

Any explanation would be nice ..

Thanks,

LDB



From thomas.stocker at acceleris.ch  Fri Jul 21 15:23:23 2006
From: thomas.stocker at acceleris.ch (Thomas Stocker)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 15:23:23 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fatal make error on Solaris 10/SPARC
Message-ID: <web-2241111@bersier.net>

What do I do wrong? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

python / gcc from sunfreeware.com

root at bahamas # gcc -v
Reading specs from 
/usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/sparc-sun-solaris2.10/3.3.2/specs
Configured with: ../configure --with-as=/usr/ccs/bin/as 
--with-ld=/usr/ccs/bin/ld --disable-nls
Thread model: posix
gcc version 3.3.2

root at bahamas # python -V
Python 2.4.2


root at bahamas # cat /etc/release
                        Solaris 10 1/06 s10s_u1wos_19a 
SPARC
            Copyright 2005 Sun Microsystems, Inc.  All 
Rights Reserved.
                         Use is subject to license terms.
                            Assembled 07 December 2005


root at bahamas # ./configure -prefix=/usr/local/mailman 
        \
              --with-python=/usr/local/bin/python \
              --with-mail-gid=other               \
              --with-cgi-gid=nobody

configure: warning: prefix=/usr/local/mailman: invalid 
host type
loading cache ./config.cache
checking for --with-python... /usr/local/bin/python
checking Python interpreter... /usr/local/bin/python
checking Python version... 2.4.2
checking that Python has a working distutils... yes
checking for a BSD compatible install... ./install-sh -c
checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... (cached) yes
checking for true... (cached) /usr/bin/true
checking for --without-gcc... no
checking for gcc... (cached) gcc
checking whether the C compiler (gcc  ) works... yes
checking whether the C compiler (gcc  ) is a 
cross-compiler... no
checking whether we are using GNU C... (cached) yes
checking whether gcc accepts -g... (cached) yes
checking whether #! works in shell scripts... (cached) yes
checking for --with-var-prefix... no
checking for --with-permcheck... yes
checking for --with-username... mailman
checking for user name "mailman"... okay
checking for --with-groupname... mailman
checking for group name "mailman"... okay
checking permissions on /usr/local/mailman... okay
checking for mail wrapper group; i.e. --with-mail-gid... 
other
checking for CGI wrapper group; i.e. --with-cgi-gid... 
nobody
checking for CGI extensions... no
checking for --with-mailhost... no
checking for --with-urlhost... no
checking for default mail host name... bahamas
checking for default URL host component... bahamas
checking for strerror... (cached) no
checking for setregid... (cached) no
checking for syslog... (cached) no
checking for syslog in -lbsd... no
checking for syslog in -lsocket... yes
checking how to run the C preprocessor... (cached) 
/lib/cpp
checking for ANSI C header files... (cached) no
checking for syslog.h... (cached) no
checking for uid_t in sys/types.h... (cached) no
checking type of array argument to getgroups... (cached) 
int
checking for vsnprintf... (cached) no
creating ./config.status
creating misc/paths.py
creating Mailman/Defaults.py
creating Mailman/mm_cfg.py.dist
creating src/Makefile
creating misc/Makefile
creating bin/Makefile
creating Mailman/Makefile
creating Mailman/Cgi/Makefile
creating Mailman/Logging/Makefile
creating Mailman/Archiver/Makefile
creating Mailman/Commands/Makefile
creating Mailman/Handlers/Makefile
creating Mailman/Bouncers/Makefile
creating Mailman/Queue/Makefile
creating Mailman/MTA/Makefile
creating Mailman/Gui/Makefile
creating templates/Makefile
creating cron/Makefile
creating scripts/Makefile
creating messages/Makefile
creating cron/crontab.in
creating misc/mailman
creating Makefile
creating tests/Makefile
creating tests/bounces/Makefile
creating tests/msgs/Makefile
creating build/bin/add_members
creating build/bin/arch
creating build/bin/change_pw
creating build/bin/check_db
creating build/bin/check_perms
creating build/bin/cleanarch
creating build/bin/clone_member
creating build/bin/config_list
creating build/bin/convert.py
creating build/bin/discard
creating build/bin/dumpdb
creating build/bin/find_member
creating build/bin/fix_url.py
creating build/bin/genaliases
creating build/bin/inject
creating build/bin/list_admins
creating build/bin/list_lists
creating build/bin/list_members
creating build/bin/list_owners
creating build/bin/mailmanctl
creating build/bin/mmsitepass
creating build/bin/msgfmt.py
creating build/bin/newlist
creating build/bin/pygettext.py
creating build/bin/qrunner
creating build/bin/remove_members
creating build/bin/reset_pw.py
creating build/bin/rmlist
creating build/bin/show_qfiles
creating build/bin/sync_members
creating build/bin/transcheck
creating build/bin/unshunt
creating build/bin/update
creating build/bin/version
creating build/bin/withlist
creating build/bin/b4b5-archfix
creating build/bin/rb-archfix
creating build/contrib/check_perms_grsecurity.py
creating build/contrib/qmail-to-mailman.py
creating build/contrib/rotatelogs.py
creating build/cron/bumpdigests
creating build/cron/checkdbs
creating build/cron/disabled
creating build/cron/gate_news
creating build/cron/mailpasswds
creating build/cron/nightly_gzip
creating build/cron/senddigests
configuration completed at Fri Jul 21 15:07:55 CEST 2006
root at bahamas # make
for d in bin cron misc Mailman scripts src templates 
messages tests; \
do \
     (cd $d; make); \
done
for d in Cgi Logging Archiver Handlers Bouncers Queue MTA 
Gui Commands; \
do \
     (cd $d; make); \
done
gcc -c -I. -DPREFIX="\"/usr/local/mailman\"" 
 -DPYTHON="\"/usr/local/bin/python\""  -DHELPFUL -g -O2 -g 
-O2 -DHAVE_SYSLOG=1 -Duid_t=int -Dgid_t=int 
-DGETGROUPS_T=int -lsocket ./common.c
common.c: In function `fatal':
common.c:84: error: `LOG_CONS' undeclared (first use in 
this function)
common.c:84: error: (Each undeclared identifier is 
reported only once
common.c:84: error: for each function it appears in.)
common.c:84: error: `LOG_MAIL' undeclared (first use in 
this function)
common.c:85: error: `LOG_ERR' undeclared (first use in 
this function)
*** Error code 1
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `common.o'
Current working directory /usr/local/src/mailman-2.1.8/src


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 21 16:57:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 07:57:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list automatically removing users
In-Reply-To: <44C0BFF6.7060003@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006072107570106565e521ab1@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:

>I do not have bounce processing enabled but yet one morning
>I have a list of about 15 users unsubscribed from the list.
>According to logs, they all look like this,
>
>
>  someone at example.com auto-unsubscribed [reason: BYBOUNCE]
>
>
>This obviously says it was removed because of some
>measure of bounces were exceeded. But once again, I do not
>have bounce processing enabled.


Is bounce processing turned off for the list and not just
DEFAULT_BOUNCE_PROCESSING = No in mm_cfg.py?

Did these unsubscribes occur at the time that cron/disabled runs
(default 9:00 a.m. server time)?

Was bounce processing ever enabled for the list? If so, once a member
is disabled for bouncing, cron/disabled will continue to send warning
messages and eventually remove the member, even if bounce processing
is turned off for the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 21 17:47:23 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 08:47:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fatal make error on Solaris 10/SPARC
In-Reply-To: <web-2241111@bersier.net>
Message-ID: <PC174020060721084723006263b8a135@msapiro>

Thomas Stocker wrote:


>checking for syslog... (cached) no
>checking for syslog in -lbsd... no
>checking for syslog in -lsocket... yes


>checking for syslog.h... (cached) no


>gcc -c -I. -DPREFIX="\"/usr/local/mailman\"" 
> -DPYTHON="\"/usr/local/bin/python\""  -DHELPFUL -g -O2 -g 
>-O2 -DHAVE_SYSLOG=1 -Duid_t=int -Dgid_t=int 
>-DGETGROUPS_T=int -lsocket ./common.c
>common.c: In function `fatal':
>common.c:84: error: `LOG_CONS' undeclared (first use in 
>this function)
>common.c:84: error: (Each undeclared identifier is 
>reported only once
>common.c:84: error: for each function it appears in.)
>common.c:84: error: `LOG_MAIL' undeclared (first use in 
>this function)
>common.c:85: error: `LOG_ERR' undeclared (first use in 
>this function)
>*** Error code 1
>make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `common.o'
>Current working directory /usr/local/src/mailman-2.1.8/src


LOG_CONS, LOG_MAIL and LOG_ERR should be defined in <syslog.h> which is
included from /usr/local/src/mailman-2.1.8/src/common.h when
HAVE_SYSLOG is defined. I am no configure expert, but configure seems
to have found a useable syslog in -lsocket, although its test snippet
only checks LOG_DEBUG.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ldb at freestandards.org  Fri Jul 21 18:32:12 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:32:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list automatically removing users
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006072107570106565e521ab1@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006072107570106565e521ab1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <44C1018C.8020201@freestandards.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
> 
> 
>>I do not have bounce processing enabled but yet one morning
>>I have a list of about 15 users unsubscribed from the list.
>>According to logs, they all look like this,
>>
>>
>> someone at example.com auto-unsubscribed [reason: BYBOUNCE]
>>
>>
>>This obviously says it was removed because of some
>>measure of bounces were exceeded. But once again, I do not
>>have bounce processing enabled.
> 
> 
> 
> Is bounce processing turned off for the list and not just
> DEFAULT_BOUNCE_PROCESSING = No in mm_cfg.py?

Does not exists anywhere in my config.

> 
> Did these unsubscribes occur at the time that cron/disabled runs
> (default 9:00 a.m. server time)?

Yes, it did.

> 
> Was bounce processing ever enabled for the list? If so, once a member
> is disabled for bouncing, cron/disabled will continue to send warning
> messages and eventually remove the member, even if bounce processing
> is turned off for the list.
> 

Bounce process was not enabled at all.



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 21 19:05:09 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:05:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list automatically removing users
In-Reply-To: <44C1018C.8020201@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607211005090406c31b293f@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> 
>> Is bounce processing turned off for the list and not just
>> DEFAULT_BOUNCE_PROCESSING = No in mm_cfg.py?
>
>Does not exists anywhere in my config.


So new lists are created with bounce_processing on and you manually
turn it off.


>> Did these unsubscribes occur at the time that cron/disabled runs
>> (default 9:00 a.m. server time)?
>
>Yes, it did.


So presumably, it was cron/disabled that did the unsubscribes. If
Mailman's bounce log (or logs if rotated) goes back a month ago, check
for any occurrences of entries for the involved users. Also, try

bin/list_members --nomail=bybounce listname

and see if you currently have any members disabled by bounce.


>> Was bounce processing ever enabled for the list? If so, once a member
>> is disabled for bouncing, cron/disabled will continue to send warning
>> messages and eventually remove the member, even if bounce processing
>> is turned off for the list.
>> 
>
>Bounce process was not enabled at all.


As I note above, when the list was first created, bounce_processing was
on by default. Are you sure you turned it off immediately after
creating the list?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ldb at freestandards.org  Fri Jul 21 19:25:22 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 13:25:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list automatically removing users
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607211005090406c31b293f@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200607211005090406c31b293f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <44C10E02.3090409@freestandards.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
> 
> 
>>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>>>Is bounce processing turned off for the list and not just
>>>DEFAULT_BOUNCE_PROCESSING = No in mm_cfg.py?
>>
>>Does not exists anywhere in my config.
> 
> 
> 
> So new lists are created with bounce_processing on and you manually
> turn it off.
> 

This is an old list. I am referring to and it explicitly turned off
via the web interface.


> 
> 
>>>Did these unsubscribes occur at the time that cron/disabled runs
>>>(default 9:00 a.m. server time)?
>>
>>Yes, it did.
> 
> 
> 
> So presumably, it was cron/disabled that did the unsubscribes. If
> Mailman's bounce log (or logs if rotated) goes back a month ago, check
> for any occurrences of entries for the involved users. Also, try
> 
> bin/list_members --nomail=bybounce listname
> 
> and see if you currently have any members disabled by bounce.
> 

There were not any users revealed after this command was executed.

> 
> 
>>>Was bounce processing ever enabled for the list? If so, once a member
>>>is disabled for bouncing, cron/disabled will continue to send warning
>>>messages and eventually remove the member, even if bounce processing
>>>is turned off for the list.
>>>
>>
>>Bounce process was not enabled at all.
> 
> 
> 
> As I note above, when the list was first created, bounce_processing was
> on by default. Are you sure you turned it off immediately after
> creating the list?
> 

Cannot be sure all I know it turned off now and it was NOT recently turned
off.



From it-support at asta.tu-darmstadt.de  Sat Jul 22 20:31:23 2006
From: it-support at asta.tu-darmstadt.de (IT-Support @ AStA TU Darmstadt)
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 20:31:23 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists not shown on "listinfo"-site
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00607180839j5a2a4ccj9401143797e7dcb3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <44BCC682.4000805@asta.tu-darmstadt.de>	
	<6fbe3da00607180718w5fdb56e4jfcfccd3dd60196b2@mail.gmail.com>	
	<44BCFFD4.6090702@asta.tu-darmstadt.de>
	<6fbe3da00607180839j5a2a4ccj9401143797e7dcb3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44C26EFB.2070709@asta.tu-darmstadt.de>

Patrick Bogen schrieb:
> On 7/18/06, IT-Support @ AStA TU Darmstadt
> <it-support at asta.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote:
>> The mailman listinfo-site is available, but the lists are not shown.
> 
> Ah, sorry, that wasn't very clear.
> 
> Have you tried following FAQ 4.62
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.062.htp>
> ?

Hello Patrick,

thanks for your message!

I could not figure it out yet - I still have to study the FAQ article
you told me - I'll give you feedback as soon as possible!

Thanks again!

Ivan



From ldb at freestandards.org  Sun Jul 23 14:55:46 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 08:55:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Best practices
Message-ID: <44C371D2.5070108@freestandards.org>

I have been rejecting messages from non-members but I am
not sure that is the best practice. Is it better to "discard"
rather than "reject" non-members messages?

Thanks,

LDB


From david at midrange.com  Sun Jul 23 17:45:06 2006
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 10:45:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Best practices
In-Reply-To: <44C371D2.5070108@freestandards.org>
References: <44C371D2.5070108@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <44C39982.4@midrange.com>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:
> I have been rejecting messages from non-members but I am
> not sure that is the best practice. Is it better to "discard"
> rather than "reject" non-members messages?

It depends on the message ... if the message is topical, then I reject
the message indicating that to post a person must be subscribed, and if
they are subscribed, then they might be posting from a different email
address.

If the message isn't topical, then I just discard it (for which the
'discard all messages marked as deferred' check box is a boon), as those
are usually just spam.

david


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jul 23 18:03:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 09:03:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lists not shown on "listinfo"-site
In-Reply-To: <44C26EFB.2070709@asta.tu-darmstadt.de>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607230903100625a1b81efb@msapiro>

IT-Support @ AStA TU Darmstadt wrote:

>Patrick Bogen schrieb:
>> 
>> Have you tried following FAQ 4.62
>> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.062.htp>
>> ?
>
>I could not figure it out yet - I still have to study the FAQ article
>you told me - I'll give you feedback as soon as possible!


I have edited the above FAQ article to try to make it more clear. If
you've looked at the prior version, you might find the current version
more helpful.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jul 23 18:31:49 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 09:31:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Best practices
In-Reply-To: <44C39982.4@midrange.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607230931490937a1b8205a@msapiro>

David Gibbs wrote:

>Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>> I have been rejecting messages from non-members but I am
>> not sure that is the best practice. Is it better to "discard"
>> rather than "reject" non-members messages?
>
>It depends on the message ... if the message is topical, then I reject
>the message indicating that to post a person must be subscribed, and if
>they are subscribed, then they might be posting from a different email
>address.
>
>If the message isn't topical, then I just discard it (for which the
>'discard all messages marked as deferred' check box is a boon), as those
>are usually just spam.


So you have generic_nonmember_action set to 'Hold', and you (or a
moderator) make a decision on each post.

I think Lawrence is asking a different question, namely, should
generic_nonmember_action be 'reject' or 'discard'?

This is a controversial question, and the answer really depends on the
list. The 'good' answer is that spam should be filtered out ahead of
Mailman. Then Mailman and the list owner don't have to worry about
'blowback' and spam forwarding issues, but this solution isn't always
available.

If you have spam reaching Mailman, it is clearly best to discard the
spam without sending any kind of 'reply'. Note that holding and then
discarding the message only does this if respond_to_post_requests is
set to 'No'. Otherwise, by the time the moderator sees the message, a
hold notification reply has already been sent.

Unfortunately, once the post gets to Mailman, Mailman applies the
generic_nonmember_action in every case. I think we all agree that for
spam (if it gets this far), this should be discard, but there are
lists for which this is not appropriate if the message is not spam.

In the past, Brad has posted examples to this list of situations where
silently discarding an attempted post has caused significant problems
for the non-member who thought the post had been received.

In short, this is a list specific decision. Is your list one where you
have non-members attempting to post? What are the consequences if that
post is discarded without notice? How do these balance with spam
blowback/forwarding considerations to the extent that spam gets this
far?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From carbonnb at gmail.com  Mon Jul 24 01:18:03 2006
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 19:18:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] Anyone have a pickle /
	mbox to spare?
In-Reply-To: <44C3DC6E.90806@mindlace.net>
References: <44C3DC6E.90806@mindlace.net>
Message-ID: <e04a6c920607231618j93637e6wa085ff33c3a7e8f6@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/23/06, emf <i at mindlace.net> wrote:

> It would sincerely help me if I could test my UI against actual mailman
> pickles to make sure I can deal with vagaries of configuration, etc.

> I'd be happy to provide a script to randomize all users passwords before
> you sent it over, but would prefer that the email addresses stay valid.
>
> I don't need generated archive files; just list pickles and mbox files,
> if you've been generating them.

I've got a 213MB mbox, and associated pickle although it's a public
list. Just let me know where to send it.

-- 
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"


From noga at aucegypt.edu  Mon Jul 24 11:56:04 2006
From: noga at aucegypt.edu (Naglaa El-Deeb)
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 12:56:04 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Hardware Requirements
Message-ID: <014d01c6af07$60e91e00$74f5b5d5@Naglaa>

Dear Sir,
          I am looking for suggestions on a hardware purchase. I am setting up a new mailing list server for our University. It will host up to 500 lists ranging from 20 subscribers to 10000 with an average of 200 . Number of messages broadcast by the list server ranging from two to four mails per day,one of those mails is a  daily bulletin mail broad cast by the list server to 10000 subscribers.The OS will be RedHat Linux v4 , "MTA"will be Sendmail ,and Mailman  will be v2.8.  Most of subscribers will have the same domain , so most of target MXes will be locally.

Please advice.

Regards,
Naglaa El-Deeb
System & Operation Engineer
University Network Services
American University in Cairo
Tel: 2027975344

From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jul 24 12:03:05 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 05:03:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hardware Requirements
In-Reply-To: <014d01c6af07$60e91e00$74f5b5d5@Naglaa>
References: <014d01c6af07$60e91e00$74f5b5d5@Naglaa>
Message-ID: <p06200700c0ea4b2c9ff5@[10.0.1.213]>

At 12:56 PM +0300 2006-07-24, Naglaa El-Deeb wrote:

>           I am looking for suggestions on a hardware purchase.

See FAQ 1.15 and 1.24.  Start at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> if you don't know what I'm 
talking about.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From anne.ramey at ncmail.net  Mon Jul 24 14:21:58 2006
From: anne.ramey at ncmail.net (Anne Ramey)
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 08:21:58 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Welcome messages
Message-ID: <44C4BB66.9040305@ncmail.net>

Question about welcome message options.  If I have my welcome message 
option under General Options turned off, it doesn't send out welcome 
messages.  Period.  Even if I say to do so on the mass subscription 
page.  I thought the individual subscription options would override what 
you have under general options, not the other way around.  Is it 
supposed to work like this or do I have a problem?  I'm using mailman 
2.1.8 on RHEL 4

-- 
Anne Ramey




From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jul 24 17:03:44 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 08:03:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Welcome messages
In-Reply-To: <44C4BB66.9040305@ncmail.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607240803440187aa632f07@msapiro>

Anne Ramey wrote:

>Question about welcome message options.  If I have my welcome message 
>option under General Options turned off, it doesn't send out welcome 
>messages.  Period.  Even if I say to do so on the mass subscription 
>page.  I thought the individual subscription options would override what 
>you have under general options, not the other way around.  Is it 
>supposed to work like this or do I have a problem?  I'm using mailman 
>2.1.8 on RHEL 4

It's supposed to send the welcome if you check the box regardless of
the list setting, but there is a bug. In this case, the mass subscribe
process calls the SendSubscribeAck method in Deliverer.py to send the
welcome, but SendSubscribeAck erroneously checks the list setting and
doesn't send the welcome if the list setting is Off.

This check needs to be removed from SendSubscribeAck. I'll fix it for
the next release.
 
-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From day7pettersens at gmail.com  Mon Jul 24 18:57:34 2006
From: day7pettersens at gmail.com (Craig Pettersen)
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 11:57:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Huge slowdown reflected in smtp logs
Message-ID: <6e6f44850607240957u281de73co95849e3d8ad15484@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,
  A couple of months ago we added a 35,000 member list to our new mailman
installation.   Checking the mailman smtp logs, we were very please with the
performance - the whole list went out in 250 seconds.  Individual messages
were logging in at a fraction of a second.  Mailings to this newsletter list
go out about every 2-3 weeks.  The first three mailings went out just fine -
one in as little as 43 seconds to all 35000 members.  But suddenly the time
shot up to over 4000 seconds on the fourth mailing, and individual messages
are going out at between 3 and 120 seconds.  Subsequent mailings have had
similar numbers and haven't coincided with any particularly busy times for
the server, nor has any configuration of the server been changed.  We use
qmail, by the way.
   I'm not sure how to account for this huge slowdown.  I suspect it may
have something to do with the bounce system, because it was the fourth
mailing that we first saw a reduction (about 500) in the mailing due to
bounce-disabled subscribers.  Currently there are about 11000
bounce-disabled subscribers which is not particularly a concern since the
list had never been purged before.  I would just like to know if anyone out
there might have a clue as to the cause of the slowdown and if there might
be anything we can do to speed things up.
  Regards,
  Craig


From bgmahesh at gmail.com  Mon Jul 24 18:59:23 2006
From: bgmahesh at gmail.com (BG Mahesh)
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 22:29:23 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fedora 5/Mailman: Lot of memory being used
	while sending email
In-Reply-To: <5227ac5c0607202336m2366bb59ga146d875722931c6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5227ac5c0607202336m2366bb59ga146d875722931c6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5227ac5c0607240959l663075a6vc82fb977e9de319@mail.gmail.com>

We went back to Fedora 4.x and the memory is being flushed. It appears there
is some problem with Fedora 5.x kernel :-(

On 7/21/06, BG Mahesh <bgmahesh at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> hi
>
> The configuration of our setup is
>
> Mailman: 2.1.8
> Processor: Xeon 3GHz dual processor
> 2GB RAM server with 80GB SATA
> Fedora 5.x
>
> When we post anything on a list that has about 360k email ids, python is
> using 4GB of memory
> [2 GB physical and 2 GB of virtual] and the process is taking a long time
> [to send out emails]
>
> How do  I fine tune it?
>
> --
> B.G. Mahesh
>
>


-- 
--
B.G. Mahesh
http://www.greynium.com/
http://www.oneindia.in/
http://www.click.in/ - Free Indian Classifieds


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jul 24 20:24:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 11:24:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Huge slowdown reflected in smtp logs
In-Reply-To: <6e6f44850607240957u281de73co95849e3d8ad15484@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607241124430734caa83c49@msapiro>

Craig Pettersen wrote:

>  A couple of months ago we added a 35,000 member list to our new mailman
>installation.   Checking the mailman smtp logs, we were very please with the
>performance - the whole list went out in 250 seconds.  Individual messages
>were logging in at a fraction of a second.  Mailings to this newsletter list
>go out about every 2-3 weeks.  The first three mailings went out just fine -
>one in as little as 43 seconds to all 35000 members.  But suddenly the time
>shot up to over 4000 seconds on the fourth mailing, and individual messages
>are going out at between 3 and 120 seconds.  Subsequent mailings have had
>similar numbers and haven't coincided with any particularly busy times for
>the server, nor has any configuration of the server been changed.  We use
>qmail, by the way.
>   I'm not sure how to account for this huge slowdown.


This is between Mailman and your outgoing MTA. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.011.htp>

If you haven't changed things like SMTP_MAX_RCPTS,
SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION, and VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL in
mm_cfg.py, it almost has to be because of some change outside Mailman.


>I suspect it may
>have something to do with the bounce system, because it was the fourth
>mailing that we first saw a reduction (about 500) in the mailing due to
>bounce-disabled subscribers.  Currently there are about 11000
>bounce-disabled subscribers which is not particularly a concern since the
>list had never been purged before.


I don't think it has anything to do with bounces in any way. Members
who are 'bounce disabled' have absolutely no effect on smtp delivery
to the list other than the fact they aren't being delivered to. If
anything, having some members who are disabled rather that not, would
speed up the smtp delivery.


>I would just like to know if anyone out
>there might have a clue as to the cause of the slowdown and if there might
>be anything we can do to speed things up.


See the FAQ referred to above and the others it points to. I think
something must have changed in the MTA or the underlying
infrastructure.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mailman at veggiechinese.net  Mon Jul 24 21:36:17 2006
From: mailman at veggiechinese.net (William Yardley)
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 12:36:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mutt script / macro for mailman moderation?
In-Reply-To: <20050920201252.GG5725@monkey.uchicago.edu>
References: <20050920162437.GD13423@mitch.veggiechinese.net>
	<20050920163828.GB5725@monkey.uchicago.edu>
	<20050920192701.GI13423@mitch.veggiechinese.net>
	<20050920201252.GG5725@monkey.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <20060724193617.GA10262@mitch.veggiechinese.net>

In case it's helpful to anyone, I put the first draft of a little script
for mutt to simplify moderation tasks. Feedback welcome. Thought I'd
post here in case it's useful to anyone.

http://veggiechinese.net/mutt_mailman_approve.txt

It's a perl script; it requires File::Copy, File::Temp and
Term::ReadLine, which should all be pretty standard, I think. I'm sure
it could be done in other languages too... this is just how I ended up
doing it.

Basically, to use this for approving / rejecting messages from the
Mailman list manager, setup macros for the pager / index like the
following:

 macro index M ":set editor=~/bin/mutt_mailman_approve.pl<enter> \
<view-attachments><last-entry><search-reverse>message/rfc822<enter> \
<reply><send-message>:set editor=\"vim +'/^$/+2'\"<enter><exit>"

(where ~/bin/mutt_mailman_approve.pl is the path to the script)
- replacing "vim ...." with your normal editor.

This macro doesn't work quite perfectly if you try and use it on a
message that isn't a Mailman confirm message, if the message is a
single-part one. Let me know if you come up with an improved version of
this macro.

You could also presumably use message-hooks so that just hitting "r"
would run this. It would be pretty easy to allow it to take a password
as the second argument; in my case, I am the site admin for all of the
lists I moderate, but I guess things could get a little more complicated
if you moderate a lot of lists with different passwords.

w



From eric at 1.com.my  Tue Jul 25 10:17:57 2006
From: eric at 1.com.my (Eric Oye)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 01:17:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Add and Removelist from .txt file
Message-ID: <5481510.post@talk.nabble.com>


I have few member lists under Mailman and I came across a situation where I
would like to remove quite some members from different lists. What I'm doing
now is browse through each list, searching for the particular email address
and delete it. This method cost me alot of time. 
 
Is there any way for me to remove email addresses which compiled in a text
file from all the lists? Is there any command which able to import the email
from text file and remove from Mailman automatically?
 
For those who came across the same situation before, please kindly advice.
My mailman version is 2.1.6.
 
Many thanks!
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Add-and-Removelist-from-.txt-file-tf1996930.html#a5481510
Sent from the Mailman - Users forum at Nabble.com.



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Jul 25 11:13:43 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 04:13:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Add and Removelist from .txt file
In-Reply-To: <5481510.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <5481510.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <p06200700c0eb9087034a@[10.0.1.213]>

At 1:17 AM -0700 2006-07-25, Eric Oye wrote:

>  Is there any way for me to remove email addresses which compiled in a text
>  file from all the lists? Is there any command which able to import the email
>  from text file and remove from Mailman automatically?

See FAQ 4.9.  There is the find_member command, as well as the 
list_members and list_lists commands.  It should be easy enough to 
script these commands, if they don't do everything you want and you 
don't want to try to write some of your own Python using the withlist 
command.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From Michael.Menge at zdv.uni-tuebingen.de  Tue Jul 25 10:20:03 2006
From: Michael.Menge at zdv.uni-tuebingen.de (Michael Menge)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 10:20:03 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing Member Options or Import dumpdb
Message-ID: <44C5D433.5070602@zdv.uni-tuebingen.de>

Hi,

I want to change the language of all members in a mailinglist. I did't 
find a direct way so I thought I dump the config.pck file with dumpdb 
edit the language with search and import the changed output back.

But i did't find a way to import the output of dumpdb back to the 
config.pck.

Is ther a way to do so, or is ther a other way to change the language of 
all members?

Thx

       Michael
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
M.Menge                                 Tel.: (49) 7071/29-70316
Universitaet Tuebingen                  Fax.: (49) 7071/29-5912
Zentrum fuer Datenverarbeitung          mail: menge at zdv.uni-tuebingen.de
Waechterstrasse 76
72074 Tuebingen


From eric at 1.com.my  Tue Jul 25 11:41:13 2006
From: eric at 1.com.my (Eric Oye)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 02:41:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Add and Removelist from .txt file
In-Reply-To: <p06200700c0eb9087034a@[10.0.1.213]>
References: <5481510.post@talk.nabble.com> <p06200700c0eb9087034a@[10.0.1.213]>
Message-ID: <5482377.post@talk.nabble.com>


i know about that command, but it cant help to add or remove the email i
written in the text file. Do you have any idea or any command that can
retreive those email address i store at the text file and do adding n
removing on mailman? Thanks a lot
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Add-and-Removelist-from-.txt-file-tf1996930.html#a5482377
Sent from the Mailman - Users forum at Nabble.com.



From catmaxx at berrach.com  Tue Jul 25 15:34:57 2006
From: catmaxx at berrach.com (Catherine Maxwell)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 08:34:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Add and Removelist from .txt file
In-Reply-To: <5482377.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <5481510.post@talk.nabble.com> <p06200700c0eb9087034a@[10.0.1.213]>
	<5482377.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060725082325.036c47a0@berrach.com>

What Brad said is correct. You will find the answer to your question 
in the /bin directory. You should read the find_member file for how 
to locate the members that are subscribed to what list and read the 
add_members and remove_members files to help you construct a command.

A simple example for mass adding regular subscribers to a list from a 
text file is:

      bin/add_members -r /path/to/textfile -w n -a n listname

A simple example for mass removing subscribers using a text file:

      bin/remove_members -f /path/to/textfile -n -N listname


--Catherine

At 04:41 AM 7/25/2006, Eric Oye wrote:
>i know about that command, but it cant help to add or remove the email i
>written in the text file. Do you have any idea or any command that can
>retreive those email address i store at the text file and do adding n
>removing on mailman? Thanks a lot



From cnatale at nyc.rr.com  Tue Jul 25 17:17:53 2006
From: cnatale at nyc.rr.com (glgavpc)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 08:17:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman export/import
Message-ID: <5487348.post@talk.nabble.com>


How do you export the mail list from one server and import it into another???
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/mailman-export-import-tf1998873.html#a5487348
Sent from the Mailman - Users forum at Nabble.com.



From cpz at tuunq.com  Tue Jul 25 17:46:34 2006
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 08:46:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman export/import
In-Reply-To: <5487348.post@talk.nabble.com> from glgavpc at "Jul 25,
	2006 08:17:53 am"
Message-ID: <20060725154634.3770A7AF@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, glgavpc wrote:
> How do you export the mail list from one server and import it into another???

you check the FAQ?  (or the message archive)

> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

z!


From adamsca at gmail.com  Tue Jul 25 20:51:03 2006
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 11:51:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Best practices
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607230931490937a1b8205a@msapiro>
References: <44C39982.4@midrange.com>
	<PC1740200607230931490937a1b8205a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <27572d930607251151n4602098dj5988e451eac6d499@mail.gmail.com>

Mostly, I agree with Mark on this. You really have to balance what
individual list owners want, how individual lists operate, and the fact that
you may host/administer so many lists that the best choice is the same for
all.

We host over 500 lists. Originally, the default was to 'Hold' messages from
non-members. This might include subscribers who's address had changed or
individuals who thought they were on the list. This is where we needed to
reevaluate the situation. Many list owners are busy and don't want to
continually take action on posts from non-members. However, many list owners
also don't want messages from 'non-members' to be automatically discarded.

Our solution was to make the default to 'Reject', but send a message to the
sender, indicating that their message was rejected because either they are
not a member or their address has changed. One problem with this solution is
that the option for multiple languages becomes a bit of  an issue.

On 7/23/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> David Gibbs wrote:
>
> >Lawrence Bowie wrote:
> >> I have been rejecting messages from non-members but I am
> >> not sure that is the best practice. Is it better to "discard"
> >> rather than "reject" non-members messages?
> >
> >It depends on the message ... if the message is topical, then I reject
> >the message indicating that to post a person must be subscribed, and if
> >they are subscribed, then they might be posting from a different email
> >address.
> >
> >If the message isn't topical, then I just discard it (for which the
> >'discard all messages marked as deferred' check box is a boon), as those
> >are usually just spam.
>
>
> So you have generic_nonmember_action set to 'Hold', and you (or a
> moderator) make a decision on each post.
>
> I think Lawrence is asking a different question, namely, should
> generic_nonmember_action be 'reject' or 'discard'?
>
> This is a controversial question, and the answer really depends on the
> list. The 'good' answer is that spam should be filtered out ahead of
> Mailman. Then Mailman and the list owner don't have to worry about
> 'blowback' and spam forwarding issues, but this solution isn't always
> available.
>
> If you have spam reaching Mailman, it is clearly best to discard the
> spam without sending any kind of 'reply'. Note that holding and then
> discarding the message only does this if respond_to_post_requests is
> set to 'No'. Otherwise, by the time the moderator sees the message, a
> hold notification reply has already been sent.
>
> Unfortunately, once the post gets to Mailman, Mailman applies the
> generic_nonmember_action in every case. I think we all agree that for
> spam (if it gets this far), this should be discard, but there are
> lists for which this is not appropriate if the message is not spam.
>
> In the past, Brad has posted examples to this list of situations where
> silently discarding an attempted post has caused significant problems
> for the non-member who thought the post had been received.
>
> In short, this is a list specific decision. Is your list one where you
> have non-members attempting to post? What are the consequences if that
> post is discarded without notice? How do these balance with spam
> blowback/forwarding considerations to the extent that spam gets this
> far?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/adamsca%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp>
>



-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com


From clawson at jungle.ca  Tue Jul 25 21:27:46 2006
From: clawson at jungle.ca (Chris Lawson)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:27:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GID mismatch with Postfix on Fedora Core 5 install
	of mailman RPM
Message-ID: <D270D01E-B7AA-4668-9650-C50F63A2F633@jungle.ca>

Hi folks.

Please excuse what may well be an FAQ but I did search the list  
archive and couldn't get an answer.

I am running Postfix and Mailman on Fedora Core 5 system. More  
specifically:

[root at production bin]# rpm -qv mailman
mailman-2.1.8-0.FC5.1
[root at production bin]# rpm -qv postfix
postfix-2.2.8-1.2

I have a bunch of lists that *were* working under Sendmail, but now  
with Postfix, I get a GID mismatch error for the mail wrapper.

More specifically:

> Command output: Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail  
> wrapper script to be executed as group "mail", but the system's  
> mail server executed the mail script as group "nobody".  Try  
> tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "mail", or re- 
> run configure,  providing the command line option `--with-mail- 
> gid=nobody'. )

Is there a way of getting the RPM version of mailman to expect a  
different mail wrapper GID?

If I try to tweak the mail server (change main.cf to run as nobody)  
postfix fails. The process that's failing (local) already has the  
privileged flag set in master.cf.

What am I missing? Or do I have to delete the RPM install and install  
from source --with-mail-gid=nobody?

cmkl
--
Chris Lawson
http://www.jungle.ca/




From akostocker at gmail.com  Tue Jul 25 22:34:41 2006
From: akostocker at gmail.com (Tony Stocker)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:34:41 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web refreshes but does not apply changes
Message-ID: <7801ad8f0607251334m379d2d3yd34d4ce2c4404912@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I'm setting up Mailman and have a bit of a difficulty.  I've sent a
'subscribe' email to a list, and received back that it's awaiting
admin approval.  I login to the web page, go to the Pending Requests
section and see the subscribe request.  I then click the accept radio
button and the Submit All Data.  But all that happens is that I get a
security warning window about encrypted communication and the web page
refreshes and resets itself.  I can't find anything in the httpd log
files, the mailman log files, or the system log files that explain why
this happens.  This happens no matter which action button I choose,
accept, decline, etc.

I've installed packages rather than compiled from scratch so here are
my relevant version stats:

postfix-2.1.5-4.2.RHEL4
httpd-2.0.52-22.ent
mailman-2.1.5.1-34.rhel4.3

Also this appears there is a similar problem when I go to list
management and attempt to add addresses via the mass subscriptions.
In this case, I fill in the information and choose submit changes, and
then it just blanks out the entries and presents the page again.

FWIW: I have added a change to the httpd.conf file to rewrite all
http: requests to https: requests.

Any ideas?


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Tue Jul 25 23:06:10 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 14:06:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web refreshes but does not apply changes
In-Reply-To: <7801ad8f0607251334m379d2d3yd34d4ce2c4404912@mail.gmail.com
 >
References: <7801ad8f0607251334m379d2d3yd34d4ce2c4404912@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060725140510.0625a640@crimson-dragon.com>

Tony Stocker sent the message below at 13:34 7/25/2006:
>Hello,
>
>I'm setting up Mailman and have a bit of a difficulty.  I've sent a
>'subscribe' email to a list, and received back that it's awaiting
>admin approval.  I login to the web page, go to the Pending Requests
>section and see the subscribe request.  I then click the accept radio
>button and the Submit All Data.  But all that happens is that I get a
>security warning window about encrypted communication and the web page
>refreshes and resets itself.  I can't find anything in the httpd log
>files, the mailman log files, or the system log files that explain why
>this happens.  This happens no matter which action button I choose,
>accept, decline, etc.
>
>I've installed packages rather than compiled from scratch so here are
>my relevant version stats:
>
>postfix-2.1.5-4.2.RHEL4
>httpd-2.0.52-22.ent
>mailman-2.1.5.1-34.rhel4.3
>
>Also this appears there is a similar problem when I go to list
>management and attempt to add addresses via the mass subscriptions.
>In this case, I fill in the information and choose submit changes, and
>then it just blanks out the entries and presents the page again.
>
>FWIW: I have added a change to the httpd.conf file to rewrite all
>http: requests to https: requests.
>
>Any ideas?
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

You have to have cookies enabled in your browser. If you do not, it won't work.



Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From akostocker at gmail.com  Tue Jul 25 23:11:41 2006
From: akostocker at gmail.com (Tony Stocker)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 21:11:41 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web refreshes but does not apply changes
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060725140510.0625a640@crimson-dragon.com>
References: <7801ad8f0607251334m379d2d3yd34d4ce2c4404912@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20060725140510.0625a640@crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <7801ad8f0607251411j6a92018avd4c38d6aff9da070@mail.gmail.com>

>
> You have to have cookies enabled in your browser. If you do not, it won't work.
>
> Dragon

I do have cookies enabled, and just to doublecheck I turned off the
privacy settings and set it to allow all cookies but the results were
the same.  I have also since tried a second browser program but the
results are the same.  I've now tried Netscape 7.2 and Firefox 1.0.2.


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Tue Jul 25 23:26:57 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 14:26:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web refreshes but does not apply changes
In-Reply-To: <7801ad8f0607251411j6a92018avd4c38d6aff9da070@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <7801ad8f0607251334m379d2d3yd34d4ce2c4404912@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20060725140510.0625a640@crimson-dragon.com>
	<7801ad8f0607251411j6a92018avd4c38d6aff9da070@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060725142110.061ecbd8@crimson-dragon.com>

Tony Stocker sent the message below at 14:11 7/25/2006:
> >
> > You have to have cookies enabled in your browser. If you do not, 
> it won't work.
> >
> > Dragon
>
>I do have cookies enabled, and just to doublecheck I turned off the
>privacy settings and set it to allow all cookies but the results were
>the same.  I have also since tried a second browser program but the
>results are the same.  I've now tried Netscape 7.2 and Firefox 1.0.2.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Hmm... well then I don't know. Generally when people see this 
behavior it is because they have cookies blocked in their browser.

Somebody with more experience will have to take it from here.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From akostocker at gmail.com  Tue Jul 25 23:33:24 2006
From: akostocker at gmail.com (Tony Stocker)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 21:33:24 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web refreshes but does not apply changes
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060725142110.061ecbd8@crimson-dragon.com>
References: <7801ad8f0607251334m379d2d3yd34d4ce2c4404912@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20060725140510.0625a640@crimson-dragon.com>
	<7801ad8f0607251411j6a92018avd4c38d6aff9da070@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20060725142110.061ecbd8@crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <7801ad8f0607251433x3c88505dx305d32fafe8f47be@mail.gmail.com>

FWIW here's the actual popup warning message that I get from Netscape
upon trying to submite my changes:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Although this page is encrypted, the information you have entered is
to be sent over an
unencrypted connection and could easily be read by a third party.

Are you sure you want to continue sending this information?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I doubt that that's very helpful, but thought I'd add it anyway.  It's
a little confusing to me since I don't know how/why it thinks it's
going to send stuff over an unencrypted channel since all connections
are supposed to be routed to the https port.  But I'm wondering if
that rewriting of the destination could be the problem.  I'm going to
temporarily comment out the rewrite and see what happens.


From akostocker at gmail.com  Tue Jul 25 23:38:00 2006
From: akostocker at gmail.com (Tony Stocker)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 21:38:00 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web refreshes but does not apply changes
In-Reply-To: <7801ad8f0607251433x3c88505dx305d32fafe8f47be@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7801ad8f0607251334m379d2d3yd34d4ce2c4404912@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20060725140510.0625a640@crimson-dragon.com>
	<7801ad8f0607251411j6a92018avd4c38d6aff9da070@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20060725142110.061ecbd8@crimson-dragon.com>
	<7801ad8f0607251433x3c88505dx305d32fafe8f47be@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7801ad8f0607251438n16e2da5bsb9f88cca48c6cd2b@mail.gmail.com>

> I doubt that that's very helpful, but thought I'd add it anyway.  It's
> a little confusing to me since I don't know how/why it thinks it's
> going to send stuff over an unencrypted channel since all connections
> are supposed to be routed to the https port.  But I'm wondering if
> that rewriting of the destination could be the problem.  I'm going to
> temporarily comment out the rewrite and see what happens.

Well that's what it is.

I disabled the SSL rewrite rule in the httpd.conf file, and tried
again and it worked.  So the Mailman program doesn't like something
about the URL's getting rewritten I'm guessing.  However, I don't want
to run this program "in the clear" - or any programs really for this
server - so what do I need to do to fix this issue?  Any ideas?


From akostocker at gmail.com  Wed Jul 26 00:14:36 2006
From: akostocker at gmail.com (Tony Stocker)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 22:14:36 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web refreshes but does not apply changes
In-Reply-To: <7801ad8f0607251438n16e2da5bsb9f88cca48c6cd2b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7801ad8f0607251334m379d2d3yd34d4ce2c4404912@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20060725140510.0625a640@crimson-dragon.com>
	<7801ad8f0607251411j6a92018avd4c38d6aff9da070@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20060725142110.061ecbd8@crimson-dragon.com>
	<7801ad8f0607251433x3c88505dx305d32fafe8f47be@mail.gmail.com>
	<7801ad8f0607251438n16e2da5bsb9f88cca48c6cd2b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7801ad8f0607251514v38d68079k52871d51e963fe8d@mail.gmail.com>

> I disabled the SSL rewrite rule in the httpd.conf file, and tried
> again and it worked.  So the Mailman program doesn't like something
> about the URL's getting rewritten I'm guessing.  However, I don't want
> to run this program "in the clear" - or any programs really for this
> server - so what do I need to do to fix this issue?  Any ideas?
>

Okay for the sake of posterity here's the fix that I've found:

Modify mm_cfg.py:
     DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
[NOTE the 's' in 'https']

Then run:
     $prefix/bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url

[This is to fix the URL's in any lists you've created.]

I then reenabled my rewrite condition in httpd.conf.  Then restarted Apache.

As the saying goes I should have RTFM before posting, sorry about that.


From tmz at pobox.com  Wed Jul 26 04:35:46 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 22:35:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GID mismatch with Postfix on Fedora Core 5
	install of mailman RPM
In-Reply-To: <D270D01E-B7AA-4668-9650-C50F63A2F633@jungle.ca>
References: <D270D01E-B7AA-4668-9650-C50F63A2F633@jungle.ca>
Message-ID: <20060726023546.GA2637@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Chris Lawson wrote:
> Please excuse what may well be an FAQ but I did search the list
> archive and couldn't get an answer.
> 
> I am running Postfix and Mailman on Fedora Core 5 system.
[...]
> I have a bunch of lists that *were* working under Sendmail, but now
> with Postfix, I get a GID mismatch error for the mail wrapper.
> 
> More specifically:
> 
>> Command output: Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
>> wrapper script to be executed as group "mail", but the system's
>> mail server executed the mail script as group "nobody".  Try
>> tweaking the mail server to run the script as group "mail", or re-
>> run configure,  providing the command line option `--with-mail-
>> gid=nobody'. )
> 
> Is there a way of getting the RPM version of mailman to expect a
> different mail wrapper GID?

This isn't really an rpm issue.  It's a difference between sendmail
and postfix.  Postfix will execute the wrapper script using the group
of the alias file where the wrapper command is defined.

Are your list aliases kept in the system-wide alias file or in a
mailman-specific alias file?  I've used the postfix integration that
is built in to mailman for ages and find that it's very convenient.

See section "6.1.1 Integrating Postfix and Mailman" in the
installation manual for complete details.  The manual is available on
FC5 at:

    /usr/share/doc/mailman-2.1.8/admin/www/mailman-install/

> If I try to tweak the mail server (change main.cf to run as nobody)
> postfix fails. The process that's failing (local) already has the
> privileged flag set in master.cf.
> 
> What am I missing? Or do I have to delete the RPM install and
> install  from source --with-mail-gid=nobody?

No need to do that.  The rpm's should work.  I've used them
successfully.

- -- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
I would like to electrocute everyone who uses the word "fair" in
connection with income tax policies.
    -- William F. Buckley

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From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jul 26 05:27:46 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:27:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing Member Options or Import dumpdb
In-Reply-To: <44C5D433.5070602@zdv.uni-tuebingen.de>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607252027460095ab45524d@msapiro>

Michael Menge wrote:
>
>I want to change the language of all members in a mailinglist. I did't 
>find a direct way so I thought I dump the config.pck file with dumpdb 
>edit the language with search and import the changed output back.
>
>But i did't find a way to import the output of dumpdb back to the 
>config.pck.

You can do it with either bin/config_list or bin/withlist. Using
config_list is probably easier.

The output of bin/dumpdb contains

    'language': {   'u1 at example.com': 'l1',
                    'u2 at example.com': 'l2',
                     ...
                    'un at example.com': 'ln'},

assuming you have edited this to

    'language': {   'u1 at example.com': 'll',
                    'u2 at example.com': 'll',
                     ...
                    'un at example.com': 'll'},

Edit it further to

mlist.language = {   'u1 at example.com': 'll',
                    'u2 at example.com': 'll',
                     ...
                    'un at example.com': 'll'},

and use it as the input to

bin/config_list -i input listname

See "bin/config_list --help".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From michael.menge at zdv.uni-tuebingen.de  Wed Jul 26 08:25:48 2006
From: michael.menge at zdv.uni-tuebingen.de (Michael Menge)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 08:25:48 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing Member Options or Import dumpdb
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607252027460095ab45524d@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200607252027460095ab45524d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060726082548.hfcf9i0m00k4kc8s@wm02_test.uni-tuebingen.de>

Thanks, that was the hint i was looking for.

Quoting Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>:

> Michael Menge wrote:
>>
>> I want to change the language of all members in a mailinglist. I did't
>> find a direct way so I thought I dump the config.pck file with dumpdb
>> edit the language with search and import the changed output back.
>>
>> But i did't find a way to import the output of dumpdb back to the
>> config.pck.
>
> You can do it with either bin/config_list or bin/withlist. Using
> config_list is probably easier.
>
> The output of bin/dumpdb contains
>
>     'language': {   'u1 at example.com': 'l1',
>                     'u2 at example.com': 'l2',
>                      ...
>                     'un at example.com': 'ln'},
>
> assuming you have edited this to
>
>     'language': {   'u1 at example.com': 'll',
>                     'u2 at example.com': 'll',
>                      ...
>                     'un at example.com': 'll'},
>
> Edit it further to
>
> mlist.language = {   'u1 at example.com': 'll',
>                     'u2 at example.com': 'll',
>                      ...
>                     'un at example.com': 'll'},
>
> and use it as the input to
>
> bin/config_list -i input listname
>
> See "bin/config_list --help".
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:   
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/michael.menge%40zdv.uni-tuebingen.de
>
> Security Policy:   
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
M.Menge                                 Tel.: (49) 7071/29-70316
Universitaet Tuebingen                  Fax.: (49) 7071/29-5912
Zentrum fuer Datenverarbeitung          mail: menge at zdv.uni-tuebingen.de
Waechterstrasse 76
72074 Tuebingen

From michael.menge at zdv.uni-tuebingen.de  Wed Jul 26 08:44:01 2006
From: michael.menge at zdv.uni-tuebingen.de (Michael Menge)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 08:44:01 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing Member Options or Import dumpdb
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607252027460095ab45524d@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200607252027460095ab45524d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060726084401.cljrflpkr4c8ss04@wm02_test.uni-tuebingen.de>

I hit one smale mistake. The last , must not be there

>
> mlist.language = {   'u1 at example.com': 'll',
>                     'u2 at example.com': 'll',
>                      ...
>                     'un at example.com': 'll'},

mlist.language = {   'u1 at example.com': 'll',
                      'u2 at example.com': 'll',
                       ...
                      'un at example.com': 'll'


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
M.Menge                                 Tel.: (49) 7071/29-70316
Universitaet Tuebingen                  Fax.: (49) 7071/29-5912
Zentrum fuer Datenverarbeitung          mail: menge at zdv.uni-tuebingen.de
Waechterstrasse 76
72074 Tuebingen

From johnedwardclement at hotmail.com  Wed Jul 26 11:58:28 2006
From: johnedwardclement at hotmail.com (John Clement)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 09:58:28 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] http://server/mailman/admin/
Message-ID: <BAY102-F31C9E082DC0ECF59EA77F9B55B0@phx.gbl>

If I browse to that URL on our current server it shows a list of lists.  If 
I go to the equivalent url on the new server (where I've already created 
some lists) I'm setting up I get

There currently are no publicly-advertised Mailman mailing lists on.....

however if I then add a list name to the url and put the password in, 
authenticate, then go back to the original url I get the list of lists I 
expected.

Have I missed a 'don't require authentication to see list of lists' tick box 
somewhere?

Thanks - jc




From catmaxx at berrach.com  Wed Jul 26 16:00:51 2006
From: catmaxx at berrach.com (Catherine Maxwell)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 09:00:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and SpamAssassin
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060726085123.0377da20@aplonis.com>

I would like to hear feedback about any issues that may be caused by 
using SpamAssassin on a Mailman server. Spam is getting out of 
control and the spammers are hitting the listname-owner and 
listname-request addresses hard. We need to get this under control 
but we are getting mixed reviews here about using SpamAssassin with 
Mailman so I thought that I would ask you guys. Can you give me your 
feelings about this? If it is not a good idea, could you suggest an 
alternate method to get the job done? Thanks.

--Catherine



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jul 26 16:05:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 07:05:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing Member Options or Import dumpdb
In-Reply-To: <20060726084401.cljrflpkr4c8ss04@wm02_test.uni-tuebingen.de>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607260705280484d8997c60@msapiro>

Michael Menge wrote:
>
>I hit one smale mistake. The last , must not be there
>
>>
>> mlist.language = {   'u1 at example.com': 'll',
>>                     'u2 at example.com': 'll',
>>                      ...
>>                     'un at example.com': 'll'},
>
>mlist.language = {   'u1 at example.com': 'll',
>                      'u2 at example.com': 'll',
>                       ...
>                      'un at example.com': 'll'


Yes, but the closing brace is needed (I assume its omission was a typo
in your email)

mlist.language = {   'u1 at example.com': 'll',
                      'u2 at example.com': 'll',
                       ...
                      'un at example.com': 'll'}

Sorry about the comma :-(

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jul 26 16:10:32 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 07:10:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] http://server/mailman/admin/
In-Reply-To: <BAY102-F31C9E082DC0ECF59EA77F9B55B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607260710320875d8997deb@msapiro>

John Clement wrote:

>If I browse to that URL on our current server it shows a list of lists.  If 
>I go to the equivalent url on the new server (where I've already created 
>some lists) I'm setting up I get
>
>There currently are no publicly-advertised Mailman mailing lists on.....
>
>however if I then add a list name to the url and put the password in, 
>authenticate, then go back to the original url I get the list of lists I 
>expected.
>
>Have I missed a 'don't require authentication to see list of lists' tick box 
>somewhere?

No.

Are you sure the second time the host part of the URL is identical to
the first time? See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.062.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From aoliver3050 at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 26 17:25:07 2006
From: aoliver3050 at yahoo.com (Aaron Oliver)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 08:25:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exporting Lists
Message-ID: <20060726152507.1483.qmail@web39611.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hopefully someone can help me out.  The list server that is currently in use in our organization has completely stopped sending e-mails.  It has been restarted several times and will no longer function like it should.  
   
  I need to export the e-mail lists to move to a more reliable and stable system.  However, when I export the file list, it does not match what is showing in the web interface.  In fact, the web interface shows about 1000 more members than the file I exported.  
   
  Can someone please point me in the right direction to find the proper file.
   
  I have used the list_members command to export the file.
   
  Thanks for you help.
   
  Aaron


From catmaxx at berrach.com  Wed Jul 26 17:45:05 2006
From: catmaxx at berrach.com (Catherine Maxwell)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:45:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exporting Lists
In-Reply-To: <20060726152507.1483.qmail@web39611.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060726152507.1483.qmail@web39611.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060726103658.039211c8@berrach.com>

The difference in the number of subscribers you retrieved may be that 
you only got the regular subscribers and not the digest, bounced, 
etc. addresses. You need to run the command again for them. The 
bounced addressed are separated as byuser, byadmin and bybounce (or 
something like that). The tags to use are located inside the list_members file.

HTH

--Catherine

At 10:25 AM 7/26/2006, you wrote:
>Hopefully someone can help me out.  The list server that is 
>currently in use in our organization has completely stopped sending 
>e-mails.  It has been restarted several times and will no longer 
>function like it should.
>
>   I need to export the e-mail lists to move to a more reliable and 
> stable system.  However, when I export the file list, it does not 
> match what is showing in the web interface.  In fact, the web 
> interface shows about 1000 more members than the file I exported.
>
>   Can someone please point me in the right direction to find the proper file.
>
>   I have used the list_members command to export the file.
>
>   Thanks for you help.
>
>   Aaron



From clawson at jungle.ca  Wed Jul 26 16:56:44 2006
From: clawson at jungle.ca (Chris Lawson)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 10:56:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GID mismatch with Postfix on Fedora Core 5	
	install of mailman RPM
In-Reply-To: <mailman.29.1153908022.11448.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.29.1153908022.11448.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <E8B0CE61-255D-4747-A9F2-603899F57EBA@jungle.ca>

On Jul 26, 2006, at 6:00 AM, Todd wrote:

> This isn't really an rpm issue.  It's a difference between sendmail
> and postfix.  Postfix will execute the wrapper script using the group
> of the alias file where the wrapper command is defined.

Thank you for taking the trouble to explain something even though  
it's written in the docs in various places. I've got it working  
thanks to you. In case anyone else has this problem, (recovering from  
a sendmail addiction while moving from FC4 to FC5) I'm documenting  
what I did to get this working.

> Are your list aliases kept in the system-wide alias file or in a
> mailman-specific alias file?

They were in /etc/aliases (the system-wide one). After I got the  
postfix-mailman alias file working I did need to remove them from the  
system-wide one. It took precedence over the postfix-mailman alias  
file, it seems.

> See section "6.1.1 Integrating Postfix and Mailman" in the
> installation manual for complete details.  The manual is available on
> FC5 at:
>
>     /usr/share/doc/mailman-2.1.8/admin/www/mailman-install/

This is a good start, but you also have to read /usr/share/doc/ 
mailman-2.1.8/INSTALL.REDHAT which tells you the directories mailman  
uses in FC5 have changed. Where once they were installed in /usr/ 
local/mailman, the binaries and what not are now in /usr/lib/mailman

Most importantly, the output of the genaliases command, once you've  
changed your mm_cfg.py file to set your MTA = 'Postfix', doesn't go  
to /usr/lib/mailman/data/ it goes to /etc/mailman/data/

So postfix's main.cf has to point to /etc/mailman/aliases in addition  
to any other alias files you need to parse, the system-wide aliases  
file cannot have any mailman list entries in it, and the mm_cfg.py  
file (also found in /etc/mailman) has to specify MTA =  
'Postfix' (case sensitive).

cmkl
--
Chris Lawson
http://www.jungle.ca/




From cpz at tuunq.com  Wed Jul 26 18:00:22 2006
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 09:00:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exporting Lists
In-Reply-To: <20060726152507.1483.qmail@web39611.mail.mud.yahoo.com> from Aaron
	Oliver at "Jul 26, 2006 08:25:07 am"
Message-ID: <20060726160022.0019B7AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Aaron Oliver wrote:
> Hopefully someone can help me out.  The list server that is currently in 
>use in our organization has completely stopped sending e-mails.  It has been 
>restarted several times and will no longer function like it should.  

What doesn't work? Does mailman not send the mail to the MTA? Does the MTA
not send the mail out? What do the logs say? (etc etc)

>   I need to export the e-mail lists to move to a more reliable and stable 
>system.  However, when I export the file list, it does not match what is 
>showing in the web interface.  In fact, the web interface shows about 1000 
>more members than the file I exported.  
>   Can someone please point me in the right direction to find the proper file.

Moving lists is a FAQ, however you don't need to extract the member list,
you move the list dirs & their .pck file(s). Please check the FAQ.

Is there a reason that you can't fix the original server? that usually
easier than moving lists and getting everyone pointed at a new server.

z!


From dave at umiacs.umd.edu  Wed Jul 26 18:12:03 2006
From: dave at umiacs.umd.edu (Dave Stern)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:12:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] held-messages and discard
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0607261201320.25833@reticle.umiacs.umd.edu>

I have a several thousand files in $MM/data/held-msg-LISTNAME-XXX.pck
I presume these are spam or messages that have otherwise ended up 
queued, perhaps waiting for admin approval. I want to delete them so I

> $MM/bin/discard $MM/data/heldmsg-somelist-4586.pck
Discarded held msg #4586 for list somelist

And often it works as indicated above. In some cases, I get a traceback

> $MM/bin/discard $MM/data/heldmsg-anotherlist-2466.pck
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/export/mailman/bin/discard", line 120, in ?
     main()
   File "/export/mailman/bin/discard", line 106, in main
     mlist = MailList(listname)
   File "/export/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 126, in __init__
     self.Lock()
   File "/export/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 163, in Lock
     self.Load()
   File "/export/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 580, in Load
     raise Errors.MMUnknownListError
Mailman.Errors.MMUnknownListError

I presume this is simply from a list that no longer exists.

So why do I have so many? Or to put it another way, is there some way I can
sanely determine which should be removed. As a first go round, I'm thinking
of just saying, anything providing traceback, delete and anything older
than one month delete as the admin is obviously ignoring the list.

Does this sound reasonable?

Thanks

  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-  generated by /dev/dave -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  David Stern                                    University of Maryland
            Institute for Advanced Computer Studies


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Jul 26 19:09:58 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:09:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and SpamAssassin
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060726085123.0377da20@aplonis.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060726085123.0377da20@aplonis.com>
Message-ID: <p06200708c0ed50ca32f3@[10.0.1.213]>

At 9:00 AM -0500 2006-07-26, Catherine Maxwell wrote:

>  I would like to hear feedback about any issues that may be caused by
>  using SpamAssassin on a Mailman server. Spam is getting out of
>  control and the spammers are hitting the listname-owner and
>  listname-request addresses hard. We need to get this under control
>  but we are getting mixed reviews here about using SpamAssassin with
>  Mailman so I thought that I would ask you guys. Can you give me your
>  feelings about this? If it is not a good idea, could you suggest an
>  alternate method to get the job done? Thanks.

Don't integrate SpamAssassin into Mailman.  Integrate it into your 
MTA instead.  That way you'll catch spam before it hits Mailman. 
Make sure to have a separate instance of the MTA which does not 
integrate SpamAssassin, so that you can use that for sending outbound 
e-mail.

If you don't use SpamAssassin, then use SpamBayes, D-SPAM, or 
something else that is adaptive and uses Bayesian-style rules based 
classification.  You may also want to incorporate some spam scoring 
methods such as dcc, Vipul's Razor, or Pyzor, which can then be fed 
into your adaptive rules-based system.

You should also seriously consider whether you want just the 
anti-spam system, or if you want to make that a part of a larger 
anti-crap framework, which would also include anti-virus scanning, 
etc....  In that case, SpamAssassin (or whatever) would become one 
part of a tool like amavisd-new, but also running under amavisd-new 
would be other parts like ClamAV or other anti-virus scanning 
systems, etc....


But don't try to integrate all this stuff into Mailman.  Do it in the 
MTA, before those messages get to Mailman.  We do this kind of thing 
at python.org for all the mailing lists hosted there (including 
mailman-users and mailman-developers), although for historical 
reasons we use SpamBayes instead of SpamAssassin.


If you go through the FAQ on this subject, you should get pretty good advice.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From s.wyles at abdn.ac.uk  Wed Jul 26 16:00:36 2006
From: s.wyles at abdn.ac.uk (Stuart Wyles)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 15:00:36 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] keep html & scrub attachments
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20060726144403.00bcd628@mailms.abdn.ac.uk>


Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere....

how do you preserve html formatting in the original message, and at the 
same time scrub any attachments, without the html being escaped? ie. I'm 
wanting messages arriving both at a subscribers inbox, and in the archive, 
to look like the original message (html intact) with only difference from 
the original being url's replacing attachments. I'm using Mailman 2.1.6 + 
mhonarc.

Is it possible? I can't seem to set the right combination of options. What 
options should i set?

thanks.

------------
stuart.





From jjloose at yahoo.co.uk  Wed Jul 26 21:21:49 2006
From: jjloose at yahoo.co.uk (Jon Loose)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:21:49 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Contemplating new installation
Message-ID: <20060726192149.1740.qmail@web25711.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I'm contemplating using mailman in a new system setup, and am hoping I could get a "heads up" warning about potential problems from the list before killing too much time on it.

I have installed mailman before, using postfix on a redhat (ClarkConnect) server.  It took a bit of fiddling with, but I got there in the end.

The new project is a fedora core based server, purchased on a subscription.  It runs qmail by default, and has plesk running to give some web-based admin.  Given the constraint that we need to keep Plesk running, I'd be most pleased to be able to run mailman on top of qmail.

Two points: 

First off, I've read that there are some unique issues with qmail/mailman.  Does this make installation significantly harder than with a postfix system (it was as much as I could do to get the postfix/mailman system going - but I'm willing to persevere!)  What are the main issues?  Also, is Plesk likely to foul up the installation if it is used post the mailman install?

Second, my previous install of mailman was 2.1.x running under /usr/local/mailman.  I note that the fedora installation already seems to have mailman files distributed around the filesystem.  Is there a standard installation now as part of fedora, and am I better to use this or stick with a fresh installation into /usr/local/mailman?

One final related issue:  this system has a greater need for security than the last one.  Is it simple to administer the web side of mailman using https so that user login is ecrypted?  Is there much needed for apache to be able to do this?

As ever, many thanks in advance for any advice.  The speed, knowledge and helpfulness of people on this list when I last had occasion to be here was just great!

With thanks,

Jon




From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jul 27 02:06:59 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 17:06:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] keep html & scrub attachments
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20060726144403.00bcd628@mailms.abdn.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607261706590562ad112a6d@msapiro>

Stuart Wyles wrote:
>
>I'm 
>wanting messages arriving both at a subscribers inbox, and in the archive, 
>to look like the original message (html intact) with only difference from 
>the original being url's replacing attachments. I'm using Mailman 2.1.6 + 
>mhonarc.
>
>Is it possible? I can't seem to set the right combination of options. What 
>options should i set?


This is not possible with Pipermail. With Pipermail, the control is
ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER which defaults to 1 meaning save any HTML parts
as HTML-escaped files referenced by URLs in the archive. Other
settings you might want are 2 - Leave it inline, but HTML-escape it or
3 - Remove text/html as attachments but don't HTML-escape them. See
the comments in Defaults.py for further information, particularly
about the danger of allowing links to unescaped HTML - it exposes you
to cross site scripting (XSS) attack.

However, you are using Mhonarc as an external archiver, so this may not
apply to your archives. Do you have your list's scrub_nondigest
attribute set to yes? If so, the message will be scrubbed according to
the above settings before either archiving or non-digest delivery. If
scrub_nondigest is set to no, individual messages will be sent as is
after content filtering, and the same unscrubbed message will be
passed to the external archiver, and from there, what happens is up to
Mhonarc.

If you are saying, you want Mailman to scrub the message (by setting
scrub_nondigest to yes), then you can't have unescaped, inline HTML
without actually modifying the code in Scrubber.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jul 27 02:39:34 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 17:39:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] held-messages and discard
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0607261201320.25833@reticle.umiacs.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402006072617393408280812ac3e@msapiro>

Dave Stern wrote:

>I have a several thousand files in $MM/data/held-msg-LISTNAME-XXX.pck
>I presume these are spam or messages that have otherwise ended up 
>queued, perhaps waiting for admin approval.


Not 'perhaps', definitely they are (or at least once were) held
messages waiting for admin action.


>I want to delete them so I
>
>> $MM/bin/discard $MM/data/heldmsg-somelist-4586.pck
>Discarded held msg #4586 for list somelist
>
>And often it works as indicated above. In some cases, I get a traceback
>
>> $MM/bin/discard $MM/data/heldmsg-anotherlist-2466.pck
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/export/mailman/bin/discard", line 120, in ?
>     main()
>   File "/export/mailman/bin/discard", line 106, in main
>     mlist = MailList(listname)
>   File "/export/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 126, in __init__
>     self.Lock()
>   File "/export/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 163, in Lock
>     self.Load()
>   File "/export/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 580, in Load
>     raise Errors.MMUnknownListError
>Mailman.Errors.MMUnknownListError
>
>I presume this is simply from a list that no longer exists.


Exactly.


>So why do I have so many?


You're in a University environment and your list owners are clueless.
Or to put it more kindly, you have a lot of list owners who don't
understand the responsibility of running a list or don't understand
how to set a list up to work in a way that is good for them.


>Or to put it another way, is there some way I can
>sanely determine which should be removed. As a first go round, I'm thinking
>of just saying, anything providing traceback, delete and anything older
>than one month delete as the admin is obviously ignoring the list.
>
>Does this sound reasonable?


It sounds too lenient to me.

What mailman version are you running? If it is 2.1.6 or later, each
list has a max_days_to_hold setting with a default set im mm_cfg.py
via DEFAULT_MAX_DAYS_TO_HOLD which in turn defaults to zero meaning
unlimited. In your case, I would suggest that setting

DEFAULT_MAX_DAYS_TO_HOLD = 7

might be appropriate. Also, in any case, as the list name is part of
the heldmsg file name, you can see if only a few lists are offenders
or if there are many lists. I would consider coercing the offending
list owners to set their lists for some reasonably short
max_days_to_hold if that is available.

Also, it might be worthwhile to actually visit the admindb interface
for some offending lists and see if all the held messages are visible.
It is possible that some of these are orphans. If they aren't visible
in the admindb interface, they definitely should be deleted. At first
pass, simply counting the heldmsg files for a list and the admindb
held messages for the list will tell you if there are orphans. Beyond
that, you'd probably have to use bin/dumpdb on the heldmsg*.pck to see
the message to know if that specific one is in the admindb or not. Or
you could look directly at the list's request.pck.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jul 27 02:47:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 17:47:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GID mismatch with Postfix on Fedora Core
	5	install of mailman RPM
In-Reply-To: <E8B0CE61-255D-4747-A9F2-603899F57EBA@jungle.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607261747330312c54c93f9@msapiro>

Chris Lawson wrote:
>
>This is a good start, but you also have to read /usr/share/doc/ 
>mailman-2.1.8/INSTALL.REDHAT which tells you the directories mailman  
>uses in FC5 have changed. Where once they were installed in /usr/ 
>local/mailman, the binaries and what not are now in /usr/lib/mailman
>
>Most importantly, the output of the genaliases command, once you've  
>changed your mm_cfg.py file to set your MTA = 'Postfix', doesn't go  
>to /usr/lib/mailman/data/ it goes to /etc/mailman/data/


These issues, while quite valid issues, are all specific to the RedHat
package. If you chose to install a package, you should always consider
the packager's documentation to take precedence. Our documentation
refers to Mailman as distributed by us and installed from source. We
can't keep up with what packagers do after the fact.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jul 27 03:03:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:03:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Contemplating new installation
In-Reply-To: <20060726192149.1740.qmail@web25711.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607261803330453c54c9486@msapiro>

Jon Loose wrote:
>
>First off, I've read that there are some unique issues with qmail/mailman.  Does this make installation significantly harder than with a postfix system (it was as much as I could do to get the postfix/mailman system going - but I'm willing to persevere!)  What are the main issues?  Also, is Plesk likely to foul up the installation if it is used post the mailman install?


I can't answer your qmail/Plesk questions. I have no experience with
either.


>Second, my previous install of mailman was 2.1.x running under /usr/local/mailman.  I note that the fedora installation already seems to have mailman files distributed around the filesystem.  Is there a standard installation now as part of fedora, and am I better to use this or stick with a fresh installation into /usr/local/mailman?


RedHat has done this in order to make the installation Filesystem
Hierarchy Standard (FHS) compliant. So far, this is just RedHat's
package. Which way you go I think should be decided on your preference
for install from source vs. install from package.

That said, if you need help from this list, we are going to be more
familiar with the source install.


>One final related issue:  this system has a greater need for security than the last one.  Is it simple to administer the web side of mailman using https so that user login is ecrypted?  Is there much needed for apache to be able to do this?


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.027.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Jul 27 03:03:29 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:03:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Contemplating new installation
In-Reply-To: <20060726192149.1740.qmail@web25711.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <20060726192149.1740.qmail@web25711.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06200711c0edaed93e74@[10.0.1.213]>

At 7:21 PM +0000 2006-07-26, Jon Loose wrote:

>  The new project is a fedora core based server, purchased on a subscription.
>  It runs qmail by default,

Ouch.

>                            and has plesk running to give some web-based
>  admin.

Double ouch.

>          Given the constraint that we need to keep Plesk running, I'd be
>  most pleased to be able to run mailman on top of qmail.

Understood.

>  First off, I've read that there are some unique issues with qmail/mailman.

Yeah, not too many people run with this configuration.  Most people 
using qmail use ezmlm instead of Mailman.

That said, I know that at least some versions of Plesk actually 
integrate a version of Mailman into their system.  Unfortunately, 
what I've seen is a really ancient version (not even the latest 2.0.x 
release), and depends on an old version of Python, etc....  It is 
very difficult to upgrade that version of Python and that version of 
Mailman, without causing everything else on the system to break.


I think you need to have a talk with your system provider to see what 
options are available to you.

>  Does this make installation significantly harder than with a postfix
>  system (it was as much as I could do to get the postfix/mailman system
>  going - but I'm willing to persevere!)  What are the main issues?

IMO, postfix and sendmail are the most natural MTAs to use with 
Mailman, although I believe that postfix tends to work better 
out-of-the-box as an MTA that handles the kinds of loads that a 
mailing list may tend to generate.

You can get equal or better performance from sendmail (especially if 
you're doing a lot of anti-spam/anti-virus processing or other type 
of filtering on your mail), but it takes more work to get there with 
sendmail than it does with postfix, and it takes more work to keep 
the system operating at that level with sendmail than it does with 
postfix.

But all of this should be covered in the instructions.

>                                                                     Also,
>  is Plesk likely to foul up the installation if it is used post the
>  mailman install?

Generally speaking, my view is that if you're going to use Plesk, 
then you should stick with whatever they provide, or at least 
whatever they make easy to integrate.  That may very well mean that 
Mailman is not a part of that picture, at least not anything we would 
consider to be a reasonably modern version of Mailman.

>  Second, my previous install of mailman was 2.1.x running under
>  /usr/local/mailman.  I note that the fedora installation already seems to
>  have mailman files distributed around the filesystem.  Is there a standard
>  installation now as part of fedora, and am I better to use this or stick
>  with a fresh installation into /usr/local/mailman?

They've done whatever they've done and didn't ask for any involvement 
from us.  You need to choose whether you want to stick with their way 
of doing things, or if you want to do things our way.  If you're 
going to go with doing things their way, you need to be aware that 
some of your support issues will need to be addressed to them and not 
us, and you'll need to be able to figure out which types of support 
issues need to be addressed where.

>  One final related issue:  this system has a greater need for security than
>  the last one.  Is it simple to administer the web side of mailman using
>  https so that user login is ecrypted?

My personal belief is that all interactions between any user or admin 
and the web interface of Mailman should go through an SSL encrypted 
connection.  All.  That's not too hard to set up, if you follow the 
instructions.

>                                         Is there much needed for apache to
>  be able to do this?

It's not too hard to set up, and apache should be able to handle 
things just fine.

Just make sure to read all the instructions, and to search the FAQ 
and the archives.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Jul 27 01:44:22 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:44:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] keep html & scrub attachments
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20060726144403.00bcd628@mailms.abdn.ac.uk>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20060726144403.00bcd628@mailms.abdn.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <p06200710c0edae4a1cd1@[10.0.1.213]>

At 3:00 PM +0100 2006-07-26, Stuart Wyles wrote:

>  how do you preserve html formatting in the original message, and at the
>  same time scrub any attachments, without the html being escaped? ie. I'm
>  wanting messages arriving both at a subscribers inbox, and in the archive,
>  to look like the original message (html intact) with only difference from
>  the original being url's replacing attachments. I'm using Mailman 2.1.6 +
>  mhonarc.

There's a distinction here between what Mailman does and what mhonarc 
does.  Mailman will either strip any MIME message bodyparts that 
don't match your specified criteria, or only allow through certain 
MIME message bodypart types that you specify.  It can also convert 
html-formatted messages into plain text.  Other than that, it doesn't 
do anything to change the formatting of the message.

What mhonarc does to what it gets passed from Mailman, that is a 
totally separate question which you should bring up with with 
maintainers of mhonarc.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From tmz at pobox.com  Thu Jul 27 04:22:26 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 22:22:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Contemplating new installation
In-Reply-To: <p06200711c0edaed93e74@[10.0.1.213]>
References: <20060726192149.1740.qmail@web25711.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<p06200711c0edaed93e74@[10.0.1.213]>
Message-ID: <20060727022226.GA13978@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 7:21 PM +0000 2006-07-26, Jon Loose wrote:
[...]
>>  Second, my previous install of mailman was 2.1.x running under
>>  /usr/local/mailman.  I note that the fedora installation already
>>  seems to have mailman files distributed around the filesystem.  Is
>>  there a standard installation now as part of fedora, and am I
>>  better to use this or stick with a fresh installation into
>>  /usr/local/mailman?
> 
> They've done whatever they've done and didn't ask for any
> involvement from us.

That doesn't seem entirely fair to the Red Hat/Fedora folks.  John
Dennis of Red Hat very clearly solicited comment on these changes on
mailman-developers back in Oct 2004 and submitted a patch as well[1].

I agree with pretty much everything else though. :-)

[1] http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers at python.org/msg08110.html

- -- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
If quizzes are quizzical, what are tests?

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From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Jul 27 05:17:11 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 22:17:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Contemplating new installation
In-Reply-To: <20060727022226.GA13978@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
References: <20060726192149.1740.qmail@web25711.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<p06200711c0edaed93e74@[10.0.1.213]>
	<20060727022226.GA13978@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <p06200700c0eddeb9fb7a@[10.0.1.213]>

At 10:22 PM -0400 2006-07-26, Todd Zullinger wrote:

>>  They've done whatever they've done and didn't ask for any
>>  involvement from us.
>
>  That doesn't seem entirely fair to the Red Hat/Fedora folks.  John
>  Dennis of Red Hat very clearly solicited comment on these changes on
>  mailman-developers back in Oct 2004 and submitted a patch as well[1].

I don't recall anyone ever contacting us regarding how we would like 
to see Mailman get packaged together, but clearly I have at least 
missed his message if nothing else.  I will also state that John is 
one of the more active participants on our lists, and we appreciate 
his involvement in the community.

That said, they have certain goals towards their packaged 
installation of Mailman (such as making it FHS compliant), and that 
leads to their making a fairly substantial number of changes to the 
system.  And that's probably not really avoidable, but it does mean 
that supporting the Red Hat packaged version of Mailman can be 
somewhat different than supporting a source-installed version, if for 
no other reason than the files are stored in different places.


As far as things go, the official Red Hat package is probably as 
close to the source-installed version as they could reasonably manage 
under the circumstances, and would probably be a good guide for other 
vendors to follow -- assuming they have similar goals.

If we had the same level of involvement in our community from other 
vendors as we get from John and the Red Hat folks, I think we'd be 
much happier campers.


Thanks for the correction, and giving me the opportunity to clarify my views.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From eric at 1.com.my  Thu Jul 27 05:22:30 2006
From: eric at 1.com.my (Eric Oye)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:22:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Add and Removelist from .txt file
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060725082325.036c47a0@berrach.com>
References: <5481510.post@talk.nabble.com> <p06200700c0eb9087034a@[10.0.1.213]>
	<5482377.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20060725082325.036c47a0@berrach.com>
Message-ID: <5514685.post@talk.nabble.com>


Thanks for the help, i had try the remove command you provide. It do help for
removing members from list to list. But wat if i have lots of list in my
server. Is impossible for me to remove the members by entering the list name
one by one. 

bin/remove_members -f /path/to/textfile -n -N listname

THis command sure can delete member by retreive the email address from the
text file. But it just can delete by entering one list name at a time. I had
try to put all the email address in a text file name membersname.txt while
enter all the list i have in a text file name listname.txt. Below is the
command i came out with, but it doesn't work.

bin/remove_members -f bin/membersname.txt -n -N -f bin/listname.txt

Does anyone have the solution to solve my problem. I wan to delete members
that i enter in a text file and need the server to search for the correct
list to delete them but not manually find the list to delete members. Thanks
fort the support.

Eric



-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Add-and-Removelist-from-.txt-file-tf1996930.html#a5514685
Sent from the Mailman - Users forum at Nabble.com.



From catmaxx at berrach.com  Thu Jul 27 05:57:18 2006
From: catmaxx at berrach.com (Catherine Maxwell)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 22:57:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Add and Removelist from .txt file
In-Reply-To: <5514685.post@talk.nabble.com>
References: <5481510.post@talk.nabble.com> <p06200700c0eb9087034a@[10.0.1.213]>
	<5482377.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20060725082325.036c47a0@berrach.com>
	<5514685.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060726224612.03409228@berrach.com>

Try something like this:

     bin/remove_members -f /path/to/file --fromall -n -N

That will remove members listed in the "/path/to/file" from "all 
lists" without sending user or admin acknowledgements.

Hint1: Backup your lists.
Hint2: Don't put your text file inside your /bin directory. You can 
have it located anywhere on your server, e.g., /home/www/subsfile.txt

--Catherine

At 10:22 PM 7/26/2006, Eric Oye wrote:
>Thanks for the help, i had try the remove command you provide. It do help for
>removing members from list to list. But wat if i have lots of list in my
>server. Is impossible for me to remove the members by entering the list name
>one by one.
>
>bin/remove_members -f /path/to/textfile -n -N listname
>
>THis command sure can delete member by retreive the email address from the
>text file. But it just can delete by entering one list name at a time. I had
>try to put all the email address in a text file name membersname.txt while
>enter all the list i have in a text file name listname.txt. Below is the
>command i came out with, but it doesn't work.
>
>bin/remove_members -f bin/membersname.txt -n -N -f bin/listname.txt
>
>Does anyone have the solution to solve my problem. I wan to delete members
>that i enter in a text file and need the server to search for the correct
>list to delete them but not manually find the list to delete members. Thanks
>fort the support.
>
>Eric



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jul 27 05:58:20 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:58:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Add and Removelist from .txt file
In-Reply-To: <5514685.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006072620582008287a2af170@msapiro>

Eric Oye wrote:
>
>But wat if i have lots of list in my
>server. Is impossible for me to remove the members by entering the list name
>one by one. 
>
>bin/remove_members -f /path/to/textfile -n -N listname

#!/bin/sh
for list in `ls lists`
do bin/remove_members -f /path/to/textfile -n -N $list
done

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From eric at 1.com.my  Thu Jul 27 09:47:11 2006
From: eric at 1.com.my (Eric Oye)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 00:47:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Add and Removelist from .txt file
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006072620582008287a2af170@msapiro>
References: <5481510.post@talk.nabble.com> <p06200700c0eb9087034a@[10.0.1.213]>
	<5482377.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20060725082325.036c47a0@berrach.com>
	<5514685.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<PC17402006072620582008287a2af170@msapiro>
Message-ID: <5516725.post@talk.nabble.com>


Thanks Mark, it do help, really thanks for the solution.

Anyway, those had involve in the forum, thanks you very much as well
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Add-and-Removelist-from-.txt-file-tf1996930.html#a5516725
Sent from the Mailman - Users forum at Nabble.com.



From jjloose at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Jul 27 10:40:19 2006
From: jjloose at yahoo.co.uk (Jon Loose)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 08:40:19 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Contemplating new installation
In-Reply-To: <p06200711c0edaed93e74@[10.0.1.213]>
Message-ID: <20060727084019.66804.qmail@web25703.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Thanks for the swift replies.  Food for thought!  No doubt I'll be back to you soon.

Jon

----- Original Message ----
From: Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
To: Jon Loose <jjloose at yahoo.co.uk>; mailman-users at python.org
Sent: Thursday, 27 July, 2006 2:03:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Contemplating new installation

At 7:21 PM +0000 2006-07-26, Jon Loose wrote:

>  The new project is a fedora core based server, purchased on a subscription.
>  It runs qmail by default,

Ouch.

>                            and has plesk running to give some web-based
>  admin.

Double ouch.

>          Given the constraint that we need to keep Plesk running, I'd be
>  most pleased to be able to run mailman on top of qmail.

Understood.

>  First off, I've read that there are some unique issues with qmail/mailman.

Yeah, not too many people run with this configuration.  Most people 
using qmail use ezmlm instead of Mailman.

That said, I know that at least some versions of Plesk actually 
integrate a version of Mailman into their system.  Unfortunately, 
what I've seen is a really ancient version (not even the latest 2.0.x 
release), and depends on an old version of Python, etc....  It is 
very difficult to upgrade that version of Python and that version of 
Mailman, without causing everything else on the system to break.


I think you need to have a talk with your system provider to see what 
options are available to you.

>  Does this make installation significantly harder than with a postfix
>  system (it was as much as I could do to get the postfix/mailman system
>  going - but I'm willing to persevere!)  What are the main issues?

IMO, postfix and sendmail are the most natural MTAs to use with 
Mailman, although I believe that postfix tends to work better 
out-of-the-box as an MTA that handles the kinds of loads that a 
mailing list may tend to generate.

You can get equal or better performance from sendmail (especially if 
you're doing a lot of anti-spam/anti-virus processing or other type 
of filtering on your mail), but it takes more work to get there with 
sendmail than it does with postfix, and it takes more work to keep 
the system operating at that level with sendmail than it does with 
postfix.

But all of this should be covered in the instructions.

>                                                                     Also,
>  is Plesk likely to foul up the installation if it is used post the
>  mailman install?

Generally speaking, my view is that if you're going to use Plesk, 
then you should stick with whatever they provide, or at least 
whatever they make easy to integrate.  That may very well mean that 
Mailman is not a part of that picture, at least not anything we would 
consider to be a reasonably modern version of Mailman.

>  Second, my previous install of mailman was 2.1.x running under
>  /usr/local/mailman.  I note that the fedora installation already seems to
>  have mailman files distributed around the filesystem.  Is there a standard
>  installation now as part of fedora, and am I better to use this or stick
>  with a fresh installation into /usr/local/mailman?

They've done whatever they've done and didn't ask for any involvement 
from us.  You need to choose whether you want to stick with their way 
of doing things, or if you want to do things our way.  If you're 
going to go with doing things their way, you need to be aware that 
some of your support issues will need to be addressed to them and not 
us, and you'll need to be able to figure out which types of support 
issues need to be addressed where.

>  One final related issue:  this system has a greater need for security than
>  the last one.  Is it simple to administer the web side of mailman using
>  https so that user login is ecrypted?

My personal belief is that all interactions between any user or admin 
and the web interface of Mailman should go through an SSL encrypted 
connection.  All.  That's not too hard to set up, if you follow the 
instructions.

>                                         Is there much needed for apache to
>  be able to do this?

It's not too hard to set up, and apache should be able to handle 
things just fine.

Just make sure to read all the instructions, and to search the FAQ 
and the archives.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.





From ldb at freestandards.org  Thu Jul 27 14:07:29 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 08:07:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Best practices
In-Reply-To: <27572d930607251151n4602098dj5988e451eac6d499@mail.gmail.com>
References: <44C39982.4@midrange.com>	<PC1740200607230931490937a1b8205a@msapiro>
	<27572d930607251151n4602098dj5988e451eac6d499@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44C8AC81.5090204@freestandards.org>

Excellent .. Thanks guys .. good and informative responses.

LDB

Christopher Adams wrote:
> Mostly, I agree with Mark on this. You really have to balance what
> individual list owners want, how individual lists operate, and the fact that
> you may host/administer so many lists that the best choice is the same for
> all.
> 
> We host over 500 lists. Originally, the default was to 'Hold' messages from
> non-members. This might include subscribers who's address had changed or
> individuals who thought they were on the list. This is where we needed to
> reevaluate the situation. Many list owners are busy and don't want to
> continually take action on posts from non-members. However, many list owners
> also don't want messages from 'non-members' to be automatically discarded.
> 
> Our solution was to make the default to 'Reject', but send a message to the
> sender, indicating that their message was rejected because either they are
> not a member or their address has changed. One problem with this solution is
> that the option for multiple languages becomes a bit of  an issue.
> 
> On 7/23/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> 
>>David Gibbs wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>>>
>>>>I have been rejecting messages from non-members but I am
>>>>not sure that is the best practice. Is it better to "discard"
>>>>rather than "reject" non-members messages?
>>>
>>>It depends on the message ... if the message is topical, then I reject
>>>the message indicating that to post a person must be subscribed, and if
>>>they are subscribed, then they might be posting from a different email
>>>address.
>>>
>>>If the message isn't topical, then I just discard it (for which the
>>>'discard all messages marked as deferred' check box is a boon), as those
>>>are usually just spam.
>>
>>
>>So you have generic_nonmember_action set to 'Hold', and you (or a
>>moderator) make a decision on each post.
>>
>>I think Lawrence is asking a different question, namely, should
>>generic_nonmember_action be 'reject' or 'discard'?
>>
>>This is a controversial question, and the answer really depends on the
>>list. The 'good' answer is that spam should be filtered out ahead of
>>Mailman. Then Mailman and the list owner don't have to worry about
>>'blowback' and spam forwarding issues, but this solution isn't always
>>available.
>>
>>If you have spam reaching Mailman, it is clearly best to discard the
>>spam without sending any kind of 'reply'. Note that holding and then
>>discarding the message only does this if respond_to_post_requests is
>>set to 'No'. Otherwise, by the time the moderator sees the message, a
>>hold notification reply has already been sent.
>>
>>Unfortunately, once the post gets to Mailman, Mailman applies the
>>generic_nonmember_action in every case. I think we all agree that for
>>spam (if it gets this far), this should be discard, but there are
>>lists for which this is not appropriate if the message is not spam.
>>
>>In the past, Brad has posted examples to this list of situations where
>>silently discarding an attempted post has caused significant problems
>>for the non-member who thought the post had been received.
>>
>>In short, this is a list specific decision. Is your list one where you
>>have non-members attempting to post? What are the consequences if that
>>post is discarded without notice? How do these balance with spam
>>blowback/forwarding considerations to the extent that spam gets this
>>far?
>>
>>--
>>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------
>>Mailman-Users mailing list
>>Mailman-Users at python.org
>>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>>
>>Unsubscribe:
>>http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/adamsca%40gmail.com
>>
>>Security Policy:
>>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp>
>>
> 
> 
> 



From ifetch at du.edu  Thu Jul 27 18:58:04 2006
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 10:58:04 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTA only for Mailman
Message-ID: <20060727104355.D18298@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>

Hello,


    I'd like to have an MTA who's only purpose is to accept SMTP 
connections for Mailman mailing lists and spawn the appropriate Mailman 
binary.  This MTA will be fed emails from our Sun Internet Mail Server 
(IMS) 5.2 cluster.

    We are moving away from having IMS 5.2 pipe to a wrapper, which intern 
spawns the proper Mailman binary, because of an issue with patching 
breaking the IMS pipe channel (omitting the longer story behind this). 
The thought now is that IMS will deliver mail destined for a mailing list 
to another "mailhost" which is running this MTA which will spawn to 
Mailman.  The "Mailman MTA" is just another Ip on the same nodes - 
although it is introducing an extra hop in delivery to mailing lists, it 
factors out the Sun / IMS issue we find outself stuck in...


    Is anyone using a light weight MTA to just hand emails off to Mailman 
and deny anything else?

    I'm looking at Sun Sendmail (I know, it's definitely not light weight) 
to do this, simply because it's already on the boxes in question - I'm 
still sorting out how to get Sendmail to deliver to aliases, but not local 
accounts.


Thanks for any feedback on MTAs, or a more sensable way to accomplish 
this.

- Ivan Fetch.



From heather at madrone.com  Thu Jul 27 20:02:40 2006
From: heather at madrone.com (Heather Madrone)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 11:02:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTA only for Mailman
In-Reply-To: <20060727104355.D18298@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
References: <20060727104355.D18298@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
Message-ID: <p0623093bc0eeafa86dee@[192.168.123.137]>

At 10:58 AM -0600 7/27/06, Ivan Fetch wrote:
>    Is anyone using a light weight MTA to just hand emails off to Mailman
>and deny anything else?

I was using exim for this purpose and now am using postfix.  I can
recommend either, but postfix is superior in every way.

>    I'm looking at Sun Sendmail (I know, it's definitely not light weight)
>to do this, simply because it's already on the boxes in question - I'm
>still sorting out how to get Sendmail to deliver to aliases, but not local
>accounts.

Sendmail is definitely the most difficult MTA to configure and maintain.
You can get postfix downloaded, installed, and running in a fraction of
the time that it will take to get sendmail to do most of what you want to
do.

-- 
Heather Madrone <heather at madrone.com>
The Home-Ed List:  http://www.madrone.com/Home-ed/helist.html

You can lead a child to learning, but you can't make her think.


From drechsau at Geeks.ORG  Thu Jul 27 20:28:59 2006
From: drechsau at Geeks.ORG (Mike Horwath)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 13:28:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTA only for Mailman
In-Reply-To: <p0623093bc0eeafa86dee@[192.168.123.137]>
References: <20060727104355.D18298@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
	<p0623093bc0eeafa86dee@[192.168.123.137]>
Message-ID: <20060727182859.GB25180@Geeks.ORG>

On Thu, Jul 27, 2006 at 11:02:40AM -0700, Heather Madrone wrote:
> At 10:58 AM -0600 7/27/06, Ivan Fetch wrote:
> >    Is anyone using a light weight MTA to just hand emails off to Mailman
> >and deny anything else?
> 
> I was using exim for this purpose and now am using postfix.  I can
> recommend either, but postfix is superior in every way.

I would concur.

> >    I'm looking at Sun Sendmail (I know, it's definitely not light weight)
> >to do this, simply because it's already on the boxes in question - I'm
> >still sorting out how to get Sendmail to deliver to aliases, but not local
> >accounts.
> 
> Sendmail is definitely the most difficult MTA to configure and
> maintain.  You can get postfix downloaded, installed, and running in
> a fraction of the time that it will take to get sendmail to do most
> of what you want to do.

Postfix can be set up, resources are quite low, and once delivery
starts will send out your messages without hassle, slow down or a lot
of maintenance.

best of luck.

-- 
Mike Horwath, reachable via drechsau at Geeks.ORG


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Jul 27 22:21:19 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 15:21:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTA only for Mailman
In-Reply-To: <20060727104355.D18298@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
References: <20060727104355.D18298@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
Message-ID: <p06200705c0eecd69ec80@[10.0.1.213]>

At 10:58 AM -0600 2006-07-27, Ivan Fetch wrote:

>     Is anyone using a light weight MTA to just hand emails off to Mailman
>  and deny anything else?

The issues here are that you need to have certain features in your 
MTA in order to get that to work well with Mailman, such as a 
mechanism for adding aliases or some other method of identifying to 
the MTA which mailing lists are in existence and how to deliver mail 
to the appropriate addresses for each, etc....

In essence, this means that you can use a lighter-weight MTA than a 
more standard MTA sendmail, postfix, or Exim, but if you go that 
direction then you're going to be on your own.  Alternatively, you 
could use sendmail, postfix, or Exim, and just not use those other 
features of the program that you don't need.

>     I'm looking at Sun Sendmail (I know, it's definitely not light weight)
>  to do this, simply because it's already on the boxes in question - I'm
>  still sorting out how to get Sendmail to deliver to aliases, but not local
>  accounts.

Sendmail, postfix, and Exim are the three MTAs that integrate most 
naturally with Mailman.  On python.org (where the mailman-users 
mailing list is hosted, among many others), we currently use postfix. 
So, we can pretty much guarantee that the integration there is going 
to work well.

I've been involved in the postfix community for many years (since the 
days it was called VMailer), and I can tell you that Wietse has done 
a lot of things that make postfix a good MTA to use out-of-the-box 
for mailing lists.

I can also say that postfix is one of the very few programs I know of 
that can have a truly useful configuration file that is just two or 
three lines long, with everything else being taken from built-in 
defaults.


Many people in the community also use sendmail, and the integration 
there is also pretty good -- that is, assuming you're running a 
pretty standard source-based install, because most vendors do some 
pretty heavy (and weird) customization of sendmail to work "better" 
in their environment.

Now, it turns out that John Beck is a longtime member of the Sendmail 
Consortium (the group that supports the open source version), and has 
been "the sendmail guy" at Sun for many years, and he's been working 
to get all those bizarre Sun-isms eliminated from the version they've 
been shipping.  Still, there are some oddities that have remained.

Your choices there are to either install the source-based version of 
sendmail and get that configured to work in your environment, or 
figure out what needs to be done to the Sun version in order to get 
it to work well with Mailman.

 From an objective viewpoint, it takes more work to get sendmail 
configured to work well for mailing lists than it does to get postfix 
configured to serve that same environment, but if you're more 
familiar with sendmail then it may be less work to stick with that 
than to try to rip that out and replace it with a completely 
different package.  It will also take more work to maintain sendmail 
suitably in this kind of environment as compared to postfix, but if 
you're doing lots of mail filtering (e.g., anti-spam or anti-virus 
processing), then you reach a point where sendmail will scale and 
perform better than postfix on the same hardware.


I can't speak too much for Exim, although I know a number of people 
in the Exim community make use of Mailman, and they've made it pretty 
easy to set things up so that you never need to update the aliases or 
anything in order to get the two working together.  I can tell you 
that Exim is pretty different from either sendmail or postfix, and if 
you've been used to using one of those two packages then it may take 
you some time to warp your mind around the Exim way of doing things.

That said, I know that Exim is an excellent MTA if properly 
configured, and is perfectly suitable for use with Mailman.

>  Thanks for any feedback on MTAs, or a more sensable way to accomplish
>  this.

Not knowing anything more about your environment, I'd guess that it 
should be pretty easy to get postfix installed and configured for 
your system, and we know that it integrates well with Mailman.


IIRC, pretty much all these issues are covered in the archives, and 
they should also be covered in the FAQ.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From steele at agora-net.com  Thu Jul 27 22:47:40 2006
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:47:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Information
Message-ID: <44C9266C.6050304@agora-net.com>

Greetings,

I was wondering where Mailman actually stores a member's bounce 
information.  Recently a client had a number of list members unsubbed 
for excessive bounces due to an SMTP server misconfiguration.  He wants 
to resub all those people, and going through all his old email to find 
the bounce notifications seems cumbersome.  If anyone could point me in 
the right direction, I'd greatly appreciate it!  I haven't been able to 
figure out where Mailman stores that.

Best Regards,
Ryan Steele


From steele at agora-net.com  Thu Jul 27 22:59:52 2006
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:59:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Information
In-Reply-To: <44C9266C.6050304@agora-net.com>
References: <44C9266C.6050304@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <44C92948.7070207@agora-net.com>

So, I found this information in the logs directory, but I was wondering 
if there was a web interface for this at all?

Best,
Ryan

Ryan Steele wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I was wondering where Mailman actually stores a member's bounce 
> information.  Recently a client had a number of list members unsubbed 
> for excessive bounces due to an SMTP server misconfiguration.  He wants 
> to resub all those people, and going through all his old email to find 
> the bounce notifications seems cumbersome.  If anyone could point me in 
> the right direction, I'd greatly appreciate it!  I haven't been able to 
> figure out where Mailman stores that.
>
> Best Regards,
> Ryan Steele
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/steele%40agora-net.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>   


-- 



From ki at knifecenter.com  Thu Jul 27 23:12:11 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:12:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stop Already Subscribed Message
Message-ID: <C0EEA46B.2BC02%ki@knifecenter.com>

I recently installed mailman.

How do I stop mailman from sending a confirmation e-mail if the e-mail
address is already subscribed to the list?

Right now, a message is sent stating that the e-mail address is already
subscribed.



From dav4is at yahoo.com  Thu Jul 27 23:33:31 2006
From: dav4is at yahoo.com (Rod Dav4is)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:33:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] First posting: A question re listnames
Message-ID: <44C9312B.5010600@yahoo.com>

Is there any particular reason for not choosing Mailman listnames ending 
in "-L"?
Is there any reason such names should be avoided?

-- 
Regards, Rod Dav4is / P.O. Box 118 / Hyde Park, NY 12538 / USA
Genealogy, et Cetera: http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~dav4is/
447 ancestral & collateral families, mostly 17?-19? century 
New England & European roots. Total population: 107,700+
Annex: http://www.gencircles.com/users/dav4is/
email: DAV4IS at YAHOO.COM
"It's always something!"
	-Gilda Radner



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Thu Jul 27 23:54:12 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 14:54:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] First posting: A question re listnames
In-Reply-To: <44C9312B.5010600@yahoo.com>
References: <44C9312B.5010600@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060727145030.06085438@crimson-dragon.com>

Rod Dav4is sent the message below at 14:33 7/27/2006:
>Is there any particular reason for not choosing Mailman listnames ending
>in "-L"?
>Is there any reason such names should be avoided?
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

It's a convention some people use to designate that an address is a 
list address and not an address going to a specific person or 
functional position like a web master or admin.

I don't think Mailman cares one way or another how you name your 
lists. All it requires is that the list name be valid in the sense 
that it will resolve to a valid e-mail address.

So what it really comes down to is personal preference. If you like 
the convention, use it. If not, then don't use it.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Jul 28 00:38:53 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:38:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Information
In-Reply-To: <44C92948.7070207@agora-net.com>
References: <44C9266C.6050304@agora-net.com> <44C92948.7070207@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <p06200707c0eef0ce3806@[10.0.1.213]>

At 4:59 PM -0400 2006-07-27, Ryan Steele wrote:

>  So, I found this information in the logs directory, but I was wondering
>  if there was a web interface for this at all?

Nope.  At least, not yet.  We'd like to fix this in a future version, 
but I don't recall if this is on the official "To Do" list for 
Mailman 2.2, or if this may end up having to wait for Mailman3.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 28 01:11:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:11:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stop Already Subscribed Message
In-Reply-To: <C0EEA46B.2BC02%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006072716111007968916d326@msapiro>

Ki Song wrote:

>I recently installed mailman.
>
>How do I stop mailman from sending a confirmation e-mail if the e-mail
>address is already subscribed to the list?
>
>Right now, a message is sent stating that the e-mail address is already
>subscribed.


First, this only happens when the subscribe attempt is from the web. If
it is by email, the email command results just say you are already
subscribed.

That said, Mailman's behavior when an attempt is made to subscribe a
member depends on the setting of Privacy options...->Subscription
rules->private_roster.

If the roster can be viewed by anyone, the web subscribe interface will
simply report that you are already a member.

If however, the roster can be viewed only by list members or the admin,
we do not report that you are already a member because this may be an
attempt by a third party to determine if you are a member, and we
notify the member to alert the member that someone may be 'probing'
for her list membership.

So the answer to your question is make the list roster viewable by
anyone. If you don't want to do that (because of potential spam
harvesting or other reasons), you'll have to hack the code in
Mailman/Cgi/Subscribe.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From webmaster at electrocities.com  Fri Jul 28 05:13:39 2006
From: webmaster at electrocities.com (ElectroCities)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 23:13:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Legal Problem
Message-ID: <020f01c6b1f3$d60f3d10$fc97a544@electrocities.com>

Hi,

We are using Mailman version 2.1.1 for several radio stations.  New FCC laws
require these radio stations to keep a hard copy printout of the names and
email addresses of the persons on their mailing lists.

I need to know how to export the names from the database to something like a
text file or Excel so that we can print it out and keep a copy for
compliance.

Thank you,

Chuck Walker, Webmaster
http://ElectroCities.com
Phone - 856-218-1789
Fax 856-269-0761

Despite the cost of living, have you noticed how it remains so popular?




From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Jul 28 05:29:45 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 22:29:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Legal Problem
In-Reply-To: <020f01c6b1f3$d60f3d10$fc97a544@electrocities.com>
References: <020f01c6b1f3$d60f3d10$fc97a544@electrocities.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00607272029g2c22bc51w5f54719771f862b1@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/27/06, ElectroCities <webmaster at electrocities.com> wrote:
> We are using Mailman version 2.1.1 for several radio stations.  New FCC laws
> require these radio stations to keep a hard copy printout of the names and
> email addresses of the persons on their mailing lists.
>

$PREFIX/bin/list_members -f <listname>


-- 
- Patrick Bogen


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 28 06:32:43 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 00:32:43 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Legal Problem
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00607272029g2c22bc51w5f54719771f862b1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <020f01c6b1f3$d60f3d10$fc97a544@electrocities.com>
	<6fbe3da00607272029g2c22bc51w5f54719771f862b1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44C9936B.2000302@yahoo.com>

Patrick Bogen wrote:
> On 7/27/06, ElectroCities <webmaster at electrocities.com> wrote:
>> We are using Mailman version 2.1.1 for several radio stations.  New FCC laws
>> require these radio stations to keep a hard copy printout of the names and
>> email addresses of the persons on their mailing lists.
>>
> 
> $PREFIX/bin/list_members -f <listname>

No, no. That won't work.  You need to do this:
$PREFIX/bin/remove_members --fromall jimpop at yahoo.com
$PREFIX/bin/list_members -f <listname>


;-)

-Jim P.




From Jason at Weatherserver.net  Fri Jul 28 09:19:22 2006
From: Jason at Weatherserver.net (Jason [WeatherServer])
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 03:19:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Legal Problem
References: <020f01c6b1f3$d60f3d10$fc97a544@electrocities.com><6fbe3da00607272029g2c22bc51w5f54719771f862b1@mail.gmail.com>
	<44C9936B.2000302@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <003f01c6b216$28b716b0$1400000a@workstation>

why not just email  listname-request at domain.com
and put the command

who "adminpassword"

mailman will mail back a list of all the names.


--------------------------------------------
http://listserver.weatherserver.net
Weather Alerts, Traffic Alerts, Toronto Fire CAD Alerts
All to your email, 24/7/365
*****Visit us today*****
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Popovitch" <jimpop at yahoo.com>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 12:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Legal Problem


Patrick Bogen wrote:
> On 7/27/06, ElectroCities <webmaster at electrocities.com> wrote:
>> We are using Mailman version 2.1.1 for several radio stations.  New FCC 
>> laws
>> require these radio stations to keep a hard copy printout of the names 
>> and
>> email addresses of the persons on their mailing lists.
>>
>
> $PREFIX/bin/list_members -f <listname>

No, no. That won't work.  You need to do this:
$PREFIX/bin/remove_members --fromall jimpop at yahoo.com
$PREFIX/bin/list_members -f <listname>


;-)

-Jim P.


------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jason%40weatherserver.net

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp




From carbonnb at gmail.com  Fri Jul 28 15:26:43 2006
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 09:26:43 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Legal Problem
In-Reply-To: <003f01c6b216$28b716b0$1400000a@workstation>
References: <020f01c6b1f3$d60f3d10$fc97a544@electrocities.com>
	<6fbe3da00607272029g2c22bc51w5f54719771f862b1@mail.gmail.com>
	<44C9936B.2000302@yahoo.com>
	<003f01c6b216$28b716b0$1400000a@workstation>
Message-ID: <e04a6c920607280626p7532992ey1e10a222419318b1@mail.gmail.com>

On 7/28/06, Jason [WeatherServer] <Jason at weatherserver.net> wrote:
> why not just email  listname-request at domain.com
> and put the command
>
> who "adminpassword"
>
> mailman will mail back a list of all the names.

That doesn't give you the addresses of the members who have been are
hidden ie. set Conceal yourself from subscriber list? to yes in their
options page)

-- 
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 28 15:52:06 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 06:52:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Legal Problem
In-Reply-To: <e04a6c920607280626p7532992ey1e10a222419318b1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607280652060093fb591b23@msapiro>

Bryan Carbonnell wrote:

>On 7/28/06, Jason [WeatherServer] <Jason at weatherserver.net> wrote:
>> why not just email  listname-request at domain.com
>> and put the command
>>
>> who "adminpassword"
>>
>> mailman will mail back a list of all the names.
>
>That doesn't give you the addresses of the members who have been are
>hidden ie. set Conceal yourself from subscriber list? to yes in their
>options page)

Right!

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>
for other options and their pros and cons.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ki at knifecenter.com  Fri Jul 28 15:56:12 2006
From: ki at knifecenter.com (Ki Song)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 09:56:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stop Already Subscribed Message
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006072716111007968916d326@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C0EF8FBC.2BD76%ki@knifecenter.com>

> Ki Song wrote:
> 
>> I recently installed mailman.
>> 
>> How do I stop mailman from sending a confirmation e-mail if the e-mail
>> address is already subscribed to the list?
>> 
>> Right now, a message is sent stating that the e-mail address is already
>> subscribed.
> 
> 
> First, this only happens when the subscribe attempt is from the web. If
> it is by email, the email command results just say you are already
> subscribed.

May I should have clarified: This is an announce-only list where we are
sending out monthly newsletters to our customers. Therefore, they have no
idea that there is a "webpage" that allows them to setup their account or to
modify their subscription settings. Basically, they have no idea that it is
mailman that they are using.
I just setup an html form that automatically sends an e-mail to the
list-subscribe at domain.com e-mail address to subscribe and sends an e-mail to
list-leave at domain.com e-mail address to unsubscribe users.
They have no interaction with the default mailman web interface.

> 
> That said, Mailman's behavior when an attempt is made to subscribe a
> member depends on the setting of Privacy options...->Subscription
> rules->private_roster.
> 
> If the roster can be viewed by anyone, the web subscribe interface will
> simply report that you are already a member.
> 
> If however, the roster can be viewed only by list members or the admin,
> we do not report that you are already a member because this may be an
> attempt by a third party to determine if you are a member, and we
> notify the member to alert the member that someone may be 'probing'
> for her list membership.
> 
> So the answer to your question is make the list roster viewable by
> anyone. If you don't want to do that (because of potential spam
> harvesting or other reasons), you'll have to hack the code in
> Mailman/Cgi/Subscribe.py.

Since I do not want the e-mail list to be viewable by potential spam
harvesters, or even  the other subscribers, for that matter, I do not want
the list roster to be viewable by anyone other than myself.



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 28 16:34:30 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 07:34:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stop Already Subscribed Message
In-Reply-To: <C0EF8FBC.2BD76%ki@knifecenter.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607280734300859f6e72a39@msapiro>

Ki Song wrote:
>
>May I should have clarified: This is an announce-only list where we are
>sending out monthly newsletters to our customers. Therefore, they have no
>idea that there is a "webpage" that allows them to setup their account or to
>modify their subscription settings. Basically, they have no idea that it is
>mailman that they are using.
>I just setup an html form that automatically sends an e-mail to the
>list-subscribe at domain.com e-mail address to subscribe and sends an e-mail to
>list-leave at domain.com e-mail address to unsubscribe users.
>They have no interaction with the default mailman web interface.


And email commands send an email response to the 'sender'. So anyone
who attempts to subscribe or unsubscribe via your web page gets some
kind of email reply. Further, in the case of an unsubscribe (and maybe
subscribe depending on list settings), they get a 'confirm' email that
requires further action.

In the case of someone who is already a member, the email response says
that.

If you want to change this behavior, you can

1) modify Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py and/or the appropriate
Mailman/Commands/cmd-* scripts to do what you want, but you may need
to do this in a list specific way if you have other lists, or

2) change your web page to post to your own CGI or to run the
bin/add_members and bin/remove_members commands, although the latter
will have permission problems unless you make the command files SETGID
which you may not want depending on who has shell access to the
server. To avoid this, you can access the commands through a SETGID
wrapper.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ifetch at du.edu  Fri Jul 28 17:19:22 2006
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 09:19:22 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTA only for Mailman
In-Reply-To: <p06200705c0eecd69ec80@[10.0.1.213]>
References: <20060727104355.D18298@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
	<p06200705c0eecd69ec80@[10.0.1.213]>
Message-ID: <20060728091007.K25659@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>

Hello,

    Thank you Heather Madrone, Mike Horwath, and Brad Knowles for your 
replies.


    I'm running Postfix other places with mailman and it is indeed very 
nice.  Since this MTA instance is just for handing off to Mailman, we're 
not doing any spam filtering or munging of emails.

    I have sendmail working here with Mailman (as a test), but I'm having 
difficulty getting it to ignore local accounts; I'd like it to handle 
aliases (which it is) but not deliver email to local users on the box. 
With Postfix I could just set local_recipient_maps, but I haven't found 
simelar functionality in Sendmail's m4 files yet. ;)  Any Sendmial experts 
out there who know this right off the top of their head?


    I certainly could install Postfix in global storage (so all cluster 
nodes can use it) and go that route too.


Thanks,

Ivan Fetch.





On Thu, 27 Jul 2006, Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 10:58 AM -0600 2006-07-27, Ivan Fetch wrote:
>
>>     Is anyone using a light weight MTA to just hand emails off to Mailman
>>  and deny anything else?
>
> The issues here are that you need to have certain features in your MTA in 
> order to get that to work well with Mailman, such as a mechanism for adding 
> aliases or some other method of identifying to the MTA which mailing lists 
> are in existence and how to deliver mail to the appropriate addresses for 
> each, etc....
>
> In essence, this means that you can use a lighter-weight MTA than a more 
> standard MTA sendmail, postfix, or Exim, but if you go that direction then 
> you're going to be on your own.  Alternatively, you could use sendmail, 
> postfix, or Exim, and just not use those other features of the program that 
> you don't need.
>
>>     I'm looking at Sun Sendmail (I know, it's definitely not light weight)
>>  to do this, simply because it's already on the boxes in question - I'm
>>  still sorting out how to get Sendmail to deliver to aliases, but not local
>>  accounts.
>
> Sendmail, postfix, and Exim are the three MTAs that integrate most naturally 
> with Mailman.  On python.org (where the mailman-users mailing list is hosted, 
> among many others), we currently use postfix. So, we can pretty much 
> guarantee that the integration there is going to work well.
>
> I've been involved in the postfix community for many years (since the days it 
> was called VMailer), and I can tell you that Wietse has done a lot of things 
> that make postfix a good MTA to use out-of-the-box for mailing lists.
>
> I can also say that postfix is one of the very few programs I know of that 
> can have a truly useful configuration file that is just two or three lines 
> long, with everything else being taken from built-in defaults.
>
>
> Many people in the community also use sendmail, and the integration there is 
> also pretty good -- that is, assuming you're running a pretty standard 
> source-based install, because most vendors do some pretty heavy (and weird) 
> customization of sendmail to work "better" in their environment.
>
> Now, it turns out that John Beck is a longtime member of the Sendmail 
> Consortium (the group that supports the open source version), and has been 
> "the sendmail guy" at Sun for many years, and he's been working to get all 
> those bizarre Sun-isms eliminated from the version they've been shipping. 
> Still, there are some oddities that have remained.
>
> Your choices there are to either install the source-based version of sendmail 
> and get that configured to work in your environment, or figure out what needs 
> to be done to the Sun version in order to get it to work well with Mailman.
>
> From an objective viewpoint, it takes more work to get sendmail configured to 
> work well for mailing lists than it does to get postfix configured to serve 
> that same environment, but if you're more familiar with sendmail then it may 
> be less work to stick with that than to try to rip that out and replace it 
> with a completely different package.  It will also take more work to maintain 
> sendmail suitably in this kind of environment as compared to postfix, but if 
> you're doing lots of mail filtering (e.g., anti-spam or anti-virus 
> processing), then you reach a point where sendmail will scale and perform 
> better than postfix on the same hardware.
>
>
> I can't speak too much for Exim, although I know a number of people in the 
> Exim community make use of Mailman, and they've made it pretty easy to set 
> things up so that you never need to update the aliases or anything in order 
> to get the two working together.  I can tell you that Exim is pretty 
> different from either sendmail or postfix, and if you've been used to using 
> one of those two packages then it may take you some time to warp your mind 
> around the Exim way of doing things.
>
> That said, I know that Exim is an excellent MTA if properly configured, and 
> is perfectly suitable for use with Mailman.
>
>>  Thanks for any feedback on MTAs, or a more sensable way to accomplish
>>  this.
>
> Not knowing anything more about your environment, I'd guess that it should be 
> pretty easy to get postfix installed and configured for your system, and we 
> know that it integrates well with Mailman.
>
>
> IIRC, pretty much all these issues are covered in the archives, and they 
> should also be covered in the FAQ.
>
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
>
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
>
>    -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>    Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
>
> Founding Individual Sponsor of LOPSA.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.
>


From heather at madrone.com  Fri Jul 28 20:45:37 2006
From: heather at madrone.com (Heather Madrone)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 11:45:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] topics and the digest
In-Reply-To: <p06230900bf8ffaac4d99@[192.168.123.137]>
References: <55259.164.144.240.25.1131035969.squirrel@www2.seaplace.org>
	<p06230900bf8ffaac4d99@[192.168.123.137]>
Message-ID: <p06230948c0f00b38e575@[192.168.123.137]>

Does anyone know whether digest subscribers can also select topics to
receive and avoid?  I've looked in the knowledge base and googled, but
I can't find the answer.

-- 
Heather Madrone <heather at madrone.com> 
The Home-Ed List:  http://www.madrone.com/Home-ed/helist.html

You can lead a child to learning, but you can't make her think.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jul 28 21:06:59 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 12:06:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] topics and the digest
In-Reply-To: <p06230948c0f00b38e575@[192.168.123.137]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607281206590937c6983da4@msapiro>

Heather Madrone wrote:

>Does anyone know whether digest subscribers can also select topics to
>receive and avoid?  I've looked in the knowledge base and googled, but
>I can't find the answer.


Topics do not apply to digests. There are only two digests prepared,
the plain text version and the MIME version, and then the appropriat
one is sent to each digest subscriber. Both digests contain all
messages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From heather at madrone.com  Fri Jul 28 21:09:28 2006
From: heather at madrone.com (Heather Madrone)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 12:09:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] topics and the digest
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200607281206590937c6983da4@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200607281206590937c6983da4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p0623094cc0f011455060@[192.168.123.137]>

At 12:06 PM -0700 7/28/06, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>Heather Madrone wrote:
>
>>Does anyone know whether digest subscribers can also select topics to
>>receive and avoid?  I've looked in the knowledge base and googled, but
>>I can't find the answer.
>
>
>Topics do not apply to digests. There are only two digests prepared,
>the plain text version and the MIME version, and then the appropriat
>one is sent to each digest subscriber. Both digests contain all
>messages.

That's what I guessed.  Thanks for your quick response.

-- 
Heather Madrone  (heather at madrone.com)  http://www.madrone.com

"The world is too dangerous for anything but truth and
too small for anything but love." 

-- Reverend William Sloane Coffin, Jr.


From dandrews at visi.com  Fri Jul 28 21:25:24 2006
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 14:25:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocking a User
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060728142404.037b20a0@visi.com>

Hi:

I know it is possible to ban a user from all the lists in my Mailman installation at once.  I know I can ban him from an individual list, however, I have almost 100 lists, and when I ban him from one, he just moves to another.  Is there a way to ban him once and for all?

Dave



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Fri Jul 28 22:17:16 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 13:17:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocking a User
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060728142404.037b20a0@visi.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20060728142404.037b20a0@visi.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060728124957.060e8588@crimson-dragon.com>

David Andrews sent the message below at 12:25 7/28/2006:
>Hi:
>
>I know it is possible to ban a user from all the lists in my Mailman 
>installation at once.  I know I can ban him from an individual list, 
>however, I have almost 100 lists, and when I ban him from one, he 
>just moves to another.  Is there a way to ban him once and for all?
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

I think you contradicted yourself there unless you are asking how to 
ban an address (which is all you can do) from all of the lists at once.

I know the answer is you can and you have to use a bin/withlist 
script to do it but I don't know enough to actually right the script for you.

I know that isn't very helpful but I really wanted to address another 
deeper issue here and that is that there really is no way you can ban 
somebody permanently. All somebody has to do to get back on a public, 
open-subscription list is to get a new e-mail address. So you could 
ban one e-mail address and this person could get another free account 
at yahoo or msn or somewhere else and you are back where you started. 
It can be quite maddening and frustrating.


Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From jnguyen at ncmir.ucsd.edu  Fri Jul 28 23:02:56 2006
From: jnguyen at ncmir.ucsd.edu (Jana Nguyen)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 14:02:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archives has bad group of list, how to fix?
Message-ID: <44CA7B80.4030501@ncmir.ucsd.edu>

Hi there,

I ran the "bin/check_perms script" and got the following output to be 
fix, I'm not sure what is the problem, and how to fix it:

/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/birntest bad group (has: jnguyen, 
expected mailman) (fixing)

p.s. 'jnguyen' is my username.

Thanks!





From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Fri Jul 28 23:25:03 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 14:25:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archives has bad group of list, how to fix?
In-Reply-To: <44CA7B80.4030501@ncmir.ucsd.edu>
References: <44CA7B80.4030501@ncmir.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060728142048.06110bd8@crimson-dragon.com>

Jana Nguyen sent the message below at 14:02 7/28/2006:
>Hi there,
>
>I ran the "bin/check_perms script" and got the following output to be
>fix, I'm not sure what is the problem, and how to fix it:
>
>/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/birntest bad group (has: jnguyen,
>expected mailman) (fixing)
>
>p.s. 'jnguyen' is my username.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Did you run the script with the -f option to fix the problems it found?

If you don't have sufficient permissions to change the file 
permissions and owners when logged in under your own account, you may 
have to get somebody with root access to do it or have an admin add 
you to the appropriate group to allow it. The default user:group in 
default install is mailman:mailman but that could have been changed 
using configure when mailman was installed.



Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From winerat at villagecorner.com  Fri Jul 28 23:06:42 2006
From: winerat at villagecorner.com (Sally K Scheer)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 17:06:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hit a bug in 2.1.7.cp2
Message-ID: <002801c6b289$bbe46910$fb5a56d8@sallyz7dwc2ci1>

I know I've seen answers to similar questions in the past but I can't 
remember the answers and I'm away from my desktop for several weeks. Please 
forgive the repetition.

I have two mailing lists running just fine and have now created a new one 
which has hit a snag. When I try to "tend to pending moderator..." after 
logging into the admin page, I get an error message

"Bug in Mailman version 2.1.7.cp2

We're sorry, we hit a bug!"

I asked my hosting company to trace it back in the mailman error logs and 
see what's causing it and they replied that they've seen this on other 
servers and have no idea how to fix it at this time. Hmmm. They're really 
good on everything else I've asked them so...

Can anyone out there help?

Sally Scheer
villagecorner.com





From winerat at villagecorner.com  Fri Jul 28 23:52:17 2006
From: winerat at villagecorner.com (Sally K Scheer)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 17:52:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hit a bug problem solved
Message-ID: <003401c6b290$1c0dd0a0$fb5a56d8@sallyz7dwc2ci1>

The problem has been solved. Tech support discovered the solution on a 
cpanel discussion list. Here's the solution that worked:

"I found that the issue was an empty request.pck file in the list's 
directory:

/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/lists/<listname>

I found that if you remove the request.pck file it is recreated when you log 
back in.

I am not exactly sure if this is a good solution or not, I'm not real sure 
what the request.pck file does, but it is never very big (usually around 24 
bytes). I only had this issue on a couple of lists, and removing the 0 byte 
request.pck file for those lists seemed to fix the issue and I am not aware 
of any further issues that came about because the file was deleted and 
recreated. However, somebody else who is more aware of Mailman's inner 
workings may know whether or not removing this file is a good or bad idea."

While this solved the problem, it doesn't explain why it happened really. I 
wouldn't mind hearing something about that from the real experts.

Sally Scheer



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jul 29 01:05:32 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:05:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hit a bug problem solved
In-Reply-To: <003401c6b290$1c0dd0a0$fb5a56d8@sallyz7dwc2ci1>
Message-ID: <PC174020060728160532054641ee3322@msapiro>

Sally K Scheer wrote:

>The problem has been solved. Tech support discovered the solution on a 
>cpanel discussion list. Here's the solution that worked:


Which is probably a better place to be in the first place. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.


>"I found that the issue was an empty request.pck file in the list's 
>directory:
>
>/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/lists/<listname>
>
>I found that if you remove the request.pck file it is recreated when you log 
>back in.


This is normal.


>I am not exactly sure if this is a good solution or not, I'm not real sure 
>what the request.pck file does, but it is never very big (usually around 24 
>bytes).


request.pck contains information about the outstanding moderator
requests for the list. 24 bytes is 'empty' - it contains one 'version'
record.


>I only had this issue on a couple of lists, and removing the 0 byte 
>request.pck file for those lists seemed to fix the issue and I am not aware 
>of any further issues that came about because the file was deleted and 
>recreated. However, somebody else who is more aware of Mailman's inner 
>workings may know whether or not removing this file is a good or bad idea."


If it is 0 bytes, removing it is probably a good idea.


>While this solved the problem, it doesn't explain why it happened really. I 
>wouldn't mind hearing something about that from the real experts.


I'm afraid this is a cPanel question. I've never heard of the standard
Mailman distribution creating a 0 length request.pck. Prior to Mailman
2.1.5, the file was a Python marshal named request.db, and there was
an issue when migrating from pre-2.1.5 to 2.1.5 in that there was no
request.pck and cron/checkdbs would mail the list admin/moderator a
daily reminder about "-1 moderator requests" but simply going to the
admindb page would create the request.pck and fix it. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.038.htp>.

The '-1 requests' issue was fixed in our distribution in 2.1.6.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jim.vanderveen at owp.csus.edu  Sat Jul 29 00:56:26 2006
From: jim.vanderveen at owp.csus.edu (Jim Vanderveen)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 15:56:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Per-list setting for ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER?
Message-ID: <C3DFA0E1-C2F8-436D-BD43-B44C49DEF7CE@owp.csus.edu>

Hey all,

Can ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER be set on a per-list basis? It seems to be  
a global setting, but I just wanted to check with all the brains  
behind Mailman before I pursue other options.

Jim Vanderveen
IT Manager, Office of Water Programs
Calif State University Sacramento
jim.vanderveen at owp.csus.edu





From jim.vanderveen at owp.csus.edu  Sat Jul 29 01:13:53 2006
From: jim.vanderveen at owp.csus.edu (Jim Vanderveen)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:13:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Per-list setting for ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER?
Message-ID: <67C22DC0-489C-486B-A0FE-FC20C56C474A@owp.csus.edu>

Hey all,

Can ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER be set on a per-list basis? It seems to be  
a global setting, but I just wanted to check with all the brains  
behind Mailman before I pursue other options.

BTW, we're running Mailman 2.1.2

Jim Vanderveen
IT Manager, Office of Water Programs
Calif State University Sacramento
jim.vanderveen at owp.csus.edu





From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jul 29 01:22:58 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:22:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archives has bad group of list, how to fix?
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060728142048.06110bd8@crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607281622580687f7b9e229@msapiro>

Dragon wrote:

>Jana Nguyen sent the message below at 14:02 7/28/2006:
>>Hi there,
>>
>>I ran the "bin/check_perms script" and got the following output to be
>>fix, I'm not sure what is the problem, and how to fix it:
>>
>>/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/birntest bad group (has: jnguyen,
>>expected mailman) (fixing)
>>
>>p.s. 'jnguyen' is my username.
>---------------- End original message. ---------------------
>
>Did you run the script with the -f option to fix the problems it found?

the '(fixing)' notation says 'yes', but this is very puzzling in a
couple of ways.

What Mailman version is this? In current versions at least,
bin/check_perms doesn't check archives/public/*. Also,
/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/birntest should be a symlink to
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/birntest, and its ownership and
permissions shouldn't matter as it's those of the target that count.

The bottom line is cane you access the public archives for this list
via a 'pipermail' URL. If so, you don't have a problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jul 29 01:36:19 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:36:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Per-list setting for ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER?
In-Reply-To: <67C22DC0-489C-486B-A0FE-FC20C56C474A@owp.csus.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607281636190750cf0bfb01@msapiro>

Jim Vanderveen wrote:
>
>Can ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER be set on a per-list basis? It seems to be  
>a global setting, but I just wanted to check with all the brains  
>behind Mailman before I pursue other options.
>
>BTW, we're running Mailman 2.1.2


No, it can't. At least one reason why not is setting it to allow
unescaped HTML enables XSS attacks through the archives, and this is a
choice that should be made by a site admin, not a list owner.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From winerat at villagecorner.com  Sat Jul 29 02:54:49 2006
From: winerat at villagecorner.com (Sally K Scheer)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 20:54:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hit a bug problem solved
References: <PC174020060728160532054641ee3322@msapiro>
Message-ID: <001901c6b2a9$9b929590$da5a56d8@sallyz7dwc2ci1>

Thanks so much. I'll forward this full answer to our host tech support 
folks.
Sally Scheer
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
To: "Sally K Scheer" <winerat at villagecorner.com>; <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] hit a bug problem solved


> Sally K Scheer wrote:
>
>>The problem has been solved. Tech support discovered the solution on a
>>cpanel discussion list. Here's the solution that worked:
>
>
> Which is probably a better place to be in the first place. See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.
>
>
>>"I found that the issue was an empty request.pck file in the list's
>>directory:
>>
>>/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/lists/<listname>
>>
>>I found that if you remove the request.pck file it is recreated when you 
>>log
>>back in.
>
>
> This is normal.
>
>
>>I am not exactly sure if this is a good solution or not, I'm not real sure
>>what the request.pck file does, but it is never very big (usually around 
>>24
>>bytes).
>
>
> request.pck contains information about the outstanding moderator
> requests for the list. 24 bytes is 'empty' - it contains one 'version'
> record.
>
>
>>I only had this issue on a couple of lists, and removing the 0 byte
>>request.pck file for those lists seemed to fix the issue and I am not 
>>aware
>>of any further issues that came about because the file was deleted and
>>recreated. However, somebody else who is more aware of Mailman's inner
>>workings may know whether or not removing this file is a good or bad 
>>idea."
>
>
> If it is 0 bytes, removing it is probably a good idea.
>
>
>>While this solved the problem, it doesn't explain why it happened really. 
>>I
>>wouldn't mind hearing something about that from the real experts.
>
>
> I'm afraid this is a cPanel question. I've never heard of the standard
> Mailman distribution creating a 0 length request.pck. Prior to Mailman
> 2.1.5, the file was a Python marshal named request.db, and there was
> an issue when migrating from pre-2.1.5 to 2.1.5 in that there was no
> request.pck and cron/checkdbs would mail the list admin/moderator a
> daily reminder about "-1 moderator requests" but simply going to the
> admindb page would create the request.pck and fix it. See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.038.htp>.
>
> The '-1 requests' issue was fixed in our distribution in 2.1.6.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.4/402 - Release Date: 7/27/2006
>
> 



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jul 29 07:17:27 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 22:17:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocking a User
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060728124957.060e8588@crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607282217270906db32e985@msapiro>

Dragon wrote:

>David Andrews sent the message below at 12:25 7/28/2006:
>>
>>I know it is possible to ban a user from all the lists in my Mailman 
>>installation at once.  I know I can ban him from an individual list, 
>>however, I have almost 100 lists, and when I ban him from one, he 
>>just moves to another.  Is there a way to ban him once and for all?
>---------------- End original message. ---------------------
>
>I think you contradicted yourself there unless you are asking how to 
>ban an address (which is all you can do) from all of the lists at once.
>
>I know the answer is you can and you have to use a bin/withlist 
>script to do it but I don't know enough to actually right the script for you.


There are a couple of ways to do this. The withlist method for exactly
this is described at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-July/052121.html>.

The other method is to run bin/config_list with appropriate input ofer
all lists via a shell script such as


#!/bin/sh
for list in `bin/list_lists --bare`
do bin/config_list -i input_file $list
done


where input_file contains

mlist.ban_list.append('address_to_ban at example.com')

See 'bin/config_list --help' and 'bin/list_lists --help'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From webbrd at comcast.net  Sat Jul 29 17:11:32 2006
From: webbrd at comcast.net (Marty Beilin)
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 11:11:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need help for small non-profit
Message-ID: <003301c6b321$4688f030$6401a8c0@mycompaq>

We are a small non-profit organization.  We send out a few email
announcements each month using Mailman residing at our website hosting
service.  We are moving our website to another hosting service that does not
offer mass emailing.

 

Is Mailman software we can download and use on our office computer?  Would
our computer have to be connected to the Web at all times?

 

Is there a better solution available?  Basically we send out 5-10 email
messages a month to our list subscribers.   Sometimes the email messages
contain pdf or Word attachments.

 

 

Thanks, 

Marty Beilin

Well Spouse Association

www.wellspouse.org <http://www.wellspouse.org/> 

 



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jul 29 17:38:53 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 08:38:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need help for small non-profit
In-Reply-To: <003301c6b321$4688f030$6401a8c0@mycompaq>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607290838530296f2cfe6bd@msapiro>

Marty Beilin wrote:
>
>Is Mailman software we can download and use on our office computer?  Would
>our computer have to be connected to the Web at all times?


In addition to Mailman, you would need a Mail Transport Agent (MTA) and
if you want a web interface for managing your lists, a web server.

All this is not too difficult on a Unix like computer or Mac OS X. It
can be done on Windows, but it requires additional software (Cygwin),
and is not particularly secure.

It is best to have a full time internet connection with a fixed IP
address and a domain name. Otherwise many recipient servers won't
accept your mail.

This is a project that requires a fair degree of computer 'savvy'. It
is not a simple 'run the installer and you're done' installation. It
also opens your computer to various access from the internet which may
be undesirable.


>Is there a better solution available?  Basically we send out 5-10 email
>messages a month to our list subscribers.   Sometimes the email messages
>contain pdf or Word attachments.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.017.htp>
for references to lists of organizations that offer Mailman hosting.
There are services that are free or low cost for non-profits.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dscollon at scotwebsolutions.com  Sat Jul 29 21:35:25 2006
From: dscollon at scotwebsolutions.com (Derek Scollon)
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2006 20:35:25 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error message from mailmanctl start
Message-ID: <1383685264.20060729203525@scotwebsolutions.com>

Dear mailman-users,

I've been having problems getting Mailman to send any messages. After doing some reading and searching this list's archives, I've discovered that I'm getting exactly the same error message as the one given here http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg35582.html

However, this is on a rented server with Mailman pre-installed and I don't want to do an uninstall and reinstall having never done this before. Is there a way to fix this error without an uninstall/reinstall? I can't find the config.pck files referred to and the error log just shows the same error message over and over again.

Any help on how to diagnose and fix this problem would be greatly appreciated.

Derek Scollon



From dscollon at scotwebsolutions.com  Sun Jul 30 16:14:42 2006
From: dscollon at scotwebsolutions.com (Derek Scollon)
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 15:14:42 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error message from mailmanctl start
In-Reply-To: <1383685264.20060729203525@scotwebsolutions.com>
References: <1383685264.20060729203525@scotwebsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <951600491.20060730151442@scotwebsolutions.com>

Sorry, please ignore this. I plugged away at the problem and have found a solution. I found and deleted the config.pck file in the lists/mailman directory and created the mailman list again from scratch as described in the latter stages of the install process. This created a new config.pck file and I was able to start mailman without any errors.

Derek Scollon
Scotweb Solutions Ltd.

On Saturday, July 29, 2006, 8:35:25 PM, you wrote:

> Dear mailman-users,

> I've been having problems getting Mailman to send any messages.
> After doing some reading and searching this list's archives, I've
> discovered that I'm getting exactly the same error message as the
> one given here
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg35582.html

> However, this is on a rented server with Mailman pre-installed and
> I don't want to do an uninstall and reinstall having never done this
> before. Is there a way to fix this error without an
> uninstall/reinstall? I can't find the config.pck files referred to
> and the error log just shows the same error message over and over again.

> Any help on how to diagnose and fix this problem would be greatly appreciated.

> Derek Scollon

> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dscollon%40scotwebsolutions.com

> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From mailman at veggiechinese.net  Mon Jul 31 03:32:14 2006
From: mailman at veggiechinese.net (William Yardley)
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 18:32:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need help for small non-profit
In-Reply-To: <003301c6b321$4688f030$6401a8c0@mycompaq>
References: <003301c6b321$4688f030$6401a8c0@mycompaq>
Message-ID: <20060731013214.GD16464@mitch.veggiechinese.net>

On Sat, Jul 29, 2006 at 11:11:32AM -0400, Marty Beilin wrote:

> We are a small non-profit organization.  We send out a few email
> announcements each month using Mailman residing at our website hosting
> service.  We are moving our website to another hosting service that
> does not offer mass emailing.
 
> Is Mailman software we can download and use on our office computer?
> Would our computer have to be connected to the Web at all times?
 
> Is there a better solution available?  Basically we send out 5-10
> email messages a month to our list subscribers.   Sometimes the email
> messages contain pdf or Word attachments.

There are some third party providers who might do a good job for you
(listbox comes to mind), or there are providers with free or discounted
services for non-profits who provide Mailman.

If you want to install / configure it yourself under a shared hosting
account, Mailman is probably not your best bet, and I wouldn't
personally recommend setting up Mailman on an office machine unless you
have some technical expertise in dealing with the types of systems that
Mailman runs on most easily. Plus, depending on the type of connection
you have at your office, you might run into problems with your messages
getting blocked.

You could look into DADA mail (formerly mojo mail) or similar systems
designed specifically for announcement only lists, which will install
more easily in a shared hosting environment, and which won't be quite as
difficult to install or configure properly.

So depending on your budget and technical resources, I'd try to find a
cheap or free mailing list setup somewhere. It doesn't have to be the
same place as you're hosting your site. You could try posting on the
NOSI list too - I'm guessing there are folks there who can help you out.
If you don't find anything, write me offlist and I'll see if I can help
out, either directly or indirectly.

I know I'm coming from a geek perspective, but I'd really suggest
linking to PDF / Word files rather than attaching them directly.

w



From jbn at forestfield.org  Mon Jul 31 03:40:43 2006
From: jbn at forestfield.org (J.B. Nicholson-Owens)
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 20:40:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to make moderation messages only go to
	moderators, not list owners?
Message-ID: <44CD5F9B.3030903@forestfield.org>

I'm the owner of a GNU Mailman-run mailing list.  I don't want moderation
messages.  What settings would I have to change to make moderation messages go
to moderators and not list owners?

I've tried reading the FAQ through the FAQ Wizard (at
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py) and the entire FAQ (at
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=all) but I didn't see anything
that addressed this issue.  If I've overlooked something, please do feel free
to point out what I've overlooked.

Thanks.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jul 31 05:22:22 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 20:22:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to make moderation messages only go
	tomoderators, not list owners?
In-Reply-To: <44CD5F9B.3030903@forestfield.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200607302022220593b0baadc7@msapiro>

J.B. Nicholson-Owens wrote:

>I'm the owner of a GNU Mailman-run mailing list.  I don't want moderation
>messages.  What settings would I have to change to make moderation messages go
>to moderators and not list owners?


You couldn't find a way to do it because there isn't one. The method
for generating an owner notification has an optional argument that
allows excluding moderators. The only place this is used is in
notifying the owner of an unrecognized bounce. All other notifications
go to both the owner(s) and moderator(s). No notifications go to
moderator and not owner.

What you would have to do would be to set the moderator address(es) as
owner and leave moderator empty. The owner could still administer the
list and the moderator only use the admindb interface as access is via
password, not email address, but then the real owner wouldn't get any
notifications of any kind.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jesse at robertgordon.com  Mon Jul 31 12:01:40 2006
From: jesse at robertgordon.com (Jesse Gold)
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 06:01:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 29, Issue 58
Message-ID: <fc.000f8297007d7f023b9aca00d4174335.7d7f03@robertgordon.com>

This is an automated message: Hello everyone, I will be on vacation and
thus out of the office (and province) from July 31st until August 10th,
inclusive. Any inquiries during this time may be directed to my associate,
Boaz Rotaro (boaz_rotaro at robertgordon.com). Thanks!

Jesse A. Gold
Educational IT Consultant
Robert Gordon & Associates



From trent at cs.pdx.edu  Mon Jul 31 18:06:06 2006
From: trent at cs.pdx.edu (Trent Fisher)
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 09:06:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with abusive user...
Message-ID: <44CE2A6E.2050102@cs.pdx.edu>

I have a big problem, and I am hoping someone here has some advice... I have a person on my mailing list who has been very abusive, but has recently taken a turn to the creepy (I would call it cyberstalking), and so I have been trying to eject him from the list.

First, I set his address to "moderate".  He promptly resubscribes with a new email address and continues where he left off.  We did a couple iterations of that.

Then I set new subscribers to be moderated by default.  Then after a pause of a week or so, he starts posting again.  But he cannot as only members may post to the list.  Looking at the email headers it is clear that he must be forging the email messages to look, to the casual observer, like they are going through the mailing list, but his messages lack the proper "Reply-To" and all the "List-*" headers... but he is somehow "on" the mailing list to be getting the messages to respond to.

So, I set all recent subscribers to "nomail", under the assumption one of them is him.  But his posts (that is, replys to mailing list messages) continue.  So he still has an address on the list, but I cannot figure out which one.

Here's something weird: someone subscribed a week or so ago, but I cannot find them on the web interface.  I get both subscribe and unsubscribe notifications, so I know he didn't unsubscribe.  Could this guy be exploiting a bug?

One thought I had, was to write a script to send out a specially constructed message to each individual on the list.  The message would be "forged" to look like it came from the list, and each message would have a slight variation which I can map back to the email address that got the message.  Then I could know which address is his.  This seems like a lot of work and it may not even work.  But it's the only thought I've got at this point short of shutting the list down.

I have thought about contacting his ISP (Comcast) and seeing if they could help... but I am reluctant to do this as he seems to have no end of energy and can carry a grudge to the end of the earth... and, I have heard that he is a lawyer!  So, I have a feeling that would be a very rocky, and ultimately futile, road to go down.

Anyway, if anybody has any advice for how to deal with this, or any ideas, I would be ever so grateful!

++thanks,
trent...


From tom at detroitonline.com  Mon Jul 31 18:35:41 2006
From: tom at detroitonline.com (Tom Ray)
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 12:35:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with abusive user...
In-Reply-To: <44CE2A6E.2050102@cs.pdx.edu>
References: <44CE2A6E.2050102@cs.pdx.edu>
Message-ID: <44CE315D.7060506@detroitonline.com>

Trent Fisher wrote:
> I have a big problem, and I am hoping someone here has some advice... I have a person on my mailing list who has been very abusive, but has recently taken a turn to the creepy (I would call it cyberstalking), and so I have been trying to eject him from the list.
>
> First, I set his address to "moderate".  He promptly resubscribes with a new email address and continues where he left off.  We did a couple iterations of that.
>
> Then I set new subscribers to be moderated by default.  Then after a pause of a week or so, he starts posting again.  But he cannot as only members may post to the list.  Looking at the email headers it is clear that he must be forging the email messages to look, to the casual observer, like they are going through the mailing list, but his messages lack the proper "Reply-To" and all the "List-*" headers... but he is somehow "on" the mailing list to be getting the messages to respond to.
>
> So, I set all recent subscribers to "nomail", under the assumption one of them is him.  But his posts (that is, replys to mailing list messages) continue.  So he still has an address on the list, but I cannot figure out which one.
>
> Here's something weird: someone subscribed a week or so ago, but I cannot find them on the web interface.  I get both subscribe and unsubscribe notifications, so I know he didn't unsubscribe.  Could this guy be exploiting a bug?
>
> One thought I had, was to write a script to send out a specially constructed message to each individual on the list.  The message would be "forged" to look like it came from the list, and each message would have a slight variation which I can map back to the email address that got the message.  Then I could know which address is his.  This seems like a lot of work and it may not even work.  But it's the only thought I've got at this point short of shutting the list down.
>
> I have thought about contacting his ISP (Comcast) and seeing if they could help... but I am reluctant to do this as he seems to have no end of energy and can carry a grudge to the end of the earth... and, I have heard that he is a lawyer!  So, I have a feeling that would be a very rocky, and ultimately futile, road to go down.
>
> Anyway, if anybody has any advice for how to deal with this, or any ideas, I would be ever so grateful!
>
> ++thanks,
> trent...
> 1.027.htp
>   
Have you warned this guy already? I don't mean just removed him from the 
list but sent him an email(s) that basically stated "Stop or you'll be 
banned" or "Hey, I warned you. You are now banned."? Is do, did he reply 
to any of them? I run a small hosting/ISP company and things like this 
can not be tolerated regardless of the rumored profession. *IF* he is a 
lawyer then it's even better for you because everything he is doing now 
to your list is considered SPAM. He's forging headers, he's sending 
unwanted emails to your list, etc.. The bottom line is this guy is 
breaking the law and you have recourse.

The next big question is do you have a TOS or AUP anywhere the members 
of this list are supposed to follow and is viewable by the public? If 
you do then he is definitely violating those agreements and it's really 
time to stomp on this guy. From the sounds of it you've been nice and 
now it's time not to be nice.

My advice is to go through everything you have that you know is from him 
and that you suspect is from him and get all the header information, 
mail server info, etc.. Compile a nice little file showing how this guy 
has abused your mailing list with SPAM, etc. and then call Comcast and 
anyone else he's used to do this with, get to their Abuse Dept. and do 
everything you can to nail this guy to the wall. You have everything you 
need to drive the nails in so just do it. It also might be worth it to 
get a consultation from a lawyer who knows about this kind of law. It 
will be worth the consultation fee for this and future incidents.

The reason I say consult a lawyer is because if this guy really is a 
lawyer and is practicing in one of the 50 states, you maybe able to 
report him to the Bar Association. I figure they might have a problem 
with a lawyer breaking the law and using his position as a lawyer to do 
it. I can't be a 100% on that but it's something to look into.

No matter what you need to contact his ISP and get them to do something 
and you need to not be nice about it. ISPs won't take the risk of legal 
action being brought against them and will generally remove the customer 
from their services.

Let me know what happens.


From raquel at thericehouse.net  Mon Jul 31 19:54:35 2006
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel Rice)
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 10:54:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with abusive user...
In-Reply-To: <44CE315D.7060506@detroitonline.com>
References: <44CE2A6E.2050102@cs.pdx.edu> <44CE315D.7060506@detroitonline.com>
Message-ID: <20060731105435.26fa74ec.raquel@thericehouse.net>

On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 12:35:41 -0400
Tom Ray <tom at detroitonline.com> wrote:

> Trent Fisher wrote:
> > I have a big problem, and I am hoping someone here has some
> > advice... I have a person on my mailing list who has been very
> > abusive, but has recently taken a turn to the creepy (I would
> > call it cyberstalking), and so I have been trying to eject him
> > from the list.
> >

<snip>

> >   

<snip>

> 
> No matter what you need to contact his ISP and get them to do
> something  and you need to not be nice about it. ISPs won't take
> the risk of legal  action being brought against them and will
> generally remove the customer  from their services.
> 
> Let me know what happens.

I've been in a similar situation.  I'd certainly follow the advice
of Tom.  In the meantime I'd put the list on full moderation.  If
it's a large list with lots of traffic, enlist the help of some
trustworthy members who can help moderate.  Arrange with those
people on the QT, then send an email to members explaining the
situation (without details), then set to full moderation and deal
with the problem child.  Once it's all been dealt with, remove
moderation and thank everyone for their cooperation.

Whatever you do may cause some people to leave your list.  But, it's
a much better alternative than to allow this person to totally
destroy what you've worked so hard to create ... a community of
like-minded people.

-- 
Raquel
============================================================
When you're finally up on the moon, looking back at the earth, all
these differences and nationalistic traits are pretty well going to
blend and you're going to get a concept that maybe this is really
one world and why the Hell can't we learn to live together like
decent people?
  --Frank Borman, American astronaut



From akostocker at gmail.com  Mon Jul 31 20:21:03 2006
From: akostocker at gmail.com (Tony Stocker)
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 18:21:03 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with abusive user...
In-Reply-To: <20060731105435.26fa74ec.raquel@thericehouse.net>
References: <44CE2A6E.2050102@cs.pdx.edu> <44CE315D.7060506@detroitonline.com>
	<20060731105435.26fa74ec.raquel@thericehouse.net>
Message-ID: <7801ad8f0607311121i76a2181rfb98cc26e87efa60@mail.gmail.com>

Are you sure that he's receiving the list emails directly?  Is it
possible that he has a confederate or sympathizer on the list who is
forwarding him the original list emails that he is then forging
replies to?

I would double-check to make sure that even list members cannot see
the addresses of other list members, because he may have gotten the
email addresses that way.

Your original idea of a 'red herring' message with a per-address
uniquie identifier is theoretically sound, but it would have to be a
message such that it would entice your abusive user to respond to it
in order to find your 'leak'.

The other responses have the best approach I think.  If you don't have
Terms of Service already that people had to agree to, then you need to
retroactively come up with some, inform your users and require that
they respond in the affirmative to the new rules or they're removed
from the list.  Then if the abuse continues, you definitely need to
bite the bullet and move this towards legal action.  I think this is
especially true depending on what activities of the person lead you to
categorize it as cyberstalking.


From dewey at ku.edu  Mon Jul 31 22:23:47 2006
From: dewey at ku.edu (Dewhirst, Rob)
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 15:23:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Namazu search engine w/Mailman
Message-ID: <C9F4FE51E4DB3B4EBCA6B115331EB72305480866@MAILBOXTWO.home.ku.edu>

Would someone mind pointing me to a site where they've incorporated this
engine into their mailman archives?  I'd like to see the interface and
operation before I try to set it up.


From troubleshooter at jimstudebaker.org  Fri Jul 28 05:25:34 2006
From: troubleshooter at jimstudebaker.org (troubleshooter at jimstudebaker.org)
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 23:25:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Where do I find mm_cfg.py
Message-ID: <46029.24.147.51.102.1154057134.squirrel@www.jimstudebaker.org>

I wish to filter the emails to a mail list owner by doing the following:

insert the line:
OWNER_PIPELINE.insert(1, 'SpamAssassin')
in mm_cfg.py.


I am using fedora core linux server system.
Thank you in advance for your reply.



From troubleshooter at jimstudebaker.org  Sun Jul 30 16:32:59 2006
From: troubleshooter at jimstudebaker.org (troubleshooter at jimstudebaker.org)
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2006 10:32:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Where do I find mm_cfg.py
Message-ID: <54213.24.147.51.102.1154269979.squirrel@www.jimstudebaker.org>

I wish to filter the emails to a mail list owner by doing the following:

insert the line:
OWNER_PIPELINE.insert(1, 'SpamAssassin')
in mm_cfg.py.


I am using fedora core linux server system.
Thank you in advance for your reply.