From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Jan  1 01:10:03 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 31 Dec 2005 18:10:03 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] falling back to login screen (repeat)
In-Reply-To: <20051231225414.49795.qmail@web30302.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051231225414.49795.qmail@web30302.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p0620076bbfdccdef13f4@[192.168.1.100]>

At 2:54 PM -0800 2005-12-31, M. Onur ERGiN wrote:

>  My problem is somehow related to httpd update or binaries in
>  /usr/bin /usr/sbin or /sbin. Does mailmanusing anything placed in
>  those directories? Because until those changes i have mentioned in
>  the previous mail, everything was going fine.

	Certainly, if something has changed your web server configuration 
or the binaries for the web server, that would affect Mailman.

	Other than the Python interpreter/compiler (wherever that is kept 
on your machine), Mailman should not be making any use of any other 
binaries in /usr/bin, /usr/sbin, or /sbin, although it will almost 
certainly be using system libraries in /usr/lib, etc....

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From monurergin at yahoo.com  Sun Jan  1 10:55:42 2006
From: monurergin at yahoo.com (M. Onur ERGiN)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 01:55:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] falling back to login screen (repeat)
In-Reply-To: <p0620076bbfdccdef13f4@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <20060101095542.15461.qmail@web30315.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

nah, nothing works. I've checked all off the binaries in bin's and sbin's. Also tryed the cookie modules of the web server and verified that they work. 

>From this point, would you have some recommendations? should I reinstall mailman? or should I start with trying reinstalling web server?

Thanks,
Onur.

Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote: At 2:54 PM -0800 2005-12-31, M. Onur ERGiN wrote:

>  My problem is somehow related to httpd update or binaries in
>  /usr/bin /usr/sbin or /sbin. Does mailmanusing anything placed in
>  those directories? Because until those changes i have mentioned in
>  the previous mail, everything was going fine.

 Certainly, if something has changed your web server configuration 
or the binaries for the web server, that would affect Mailman.

 Other than the Python interpreter/compiler (wherever that is kept 
on your machine), Mailman should not be making any use of any other 
binaries in /usr/bin, /usr/sbin, or /sbin, although it will almost 
certainly be using system libraries in /usr/lib, etc....

-- 
Brad Knowles, 


"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See .



		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
 Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.

From webdev90 at googlemail.com  Sun Jan  1 15:47:30 2006
From: webdev90 at googlemail.com (Web Developer)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 15:47:30 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Msg Delivery Problem
Message-ID: <6b77cc2b0601010647h659ac0f8v92636406b7b72844@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I am a new user here and this is the first time that I use mailman as
mailing list solution.

I have a dedicated server on a German ISP (Strato) and mailman was
preinstalled on my system.

I just made settings for users and status of service as described below.

- I have Plesk 7.5 on a Suse 9.3
- Mail man was activated direct on Plesk interface. I do not installed
anything manulaly.
- When I create a list, list owner gets a notification msg.
- When I add a user, this new user gets welcome msg.
- Users would login direct web interface for mailman and can do any action
direct there.
- BUT when a user sends a msg to the list THERE IS NOT MSG DELIVERED TO THE
LIST.
- There is also no information list admin for any action.

Is that a configuration problem, or general what is the problem and what can
I do now?

TIA!

Cenk Eder


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Sun Jan  1 15:59:57 2006
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 15:59:57 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Msg Delivery Problem
In-Reply-To: <6b77cc2b0601010647h659ac0f8v92636406b7b72844@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6b77cc2b0601010647h659ac0f8v92636406b7b72844@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060101145957.GW21156@charite.de>

* Web Developer <webdev90 at googlemail.com>:

> - BUT when a user sends a msg to the list THERE IS NOT MSG DELIVERED TO THE
> LIST.
> - There is also no information list admin for any action.

/etc/init.d/mailman start

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                 send no mail to spamtrap at charite.de


From esj at harvee.org  Sun Jan  1 17:40:50 2006
From: esj at harvee.org (Eric S. Johansson)
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 11:40:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sorting out bounces
Message-ID: <dp90md$f79$1@sea.gmane.org>

I recently merged together a bunch of mailing list from different 
machines onto one.  When the monthly notices were sent out, all of the 
bounces went to one address.  Is it anyway to set up mailman so that 
bounces go to the list owner and not the general mailman address?

Many thanks
---eric



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Jan  1 20:05:50 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 13:05:50 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sorting out bounces
In-Reply-To: <dp90md$f79$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <dp90md$f79$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <p06200779bfddd85d8644@[192.168.1.100]>

At 11:40 AM -0500 2006-01-01, Eric S. Johansson wrote:

>  I recently merged together a bunch of mailing list from different
>  machines onto one.  When the monthly notices were sent out, all of the
>  bounces went to one address.  Is it anyway to set up mailman so that
>  bounces go to the list owner and not the general mailman address?

	Mailman manages the bounces internally, so as to automatically 
handle unsubscriptions due to excessive bounces, nonexistent 
accounts, etc....

	That's the way it is supposed to work.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From esj at harvee.org  Sun Jan  1 22:20:14 2006
From: esj at harvee.org (Eric S. Johansson)
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 16:20:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sorting out bounces
In-Reply-To: <p06200779bfddd85d8644@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <dp90md$f79$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<p06200779bfddd85d8644@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <dp9h29$n3j$1@sea.gmane.org>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> 	Mailman manages the bounces internally, so as to automatically 
> handle unsubscriptions due to excessive bounces, nonexistent 
> accounts, etc....
> 
> 	That's the way it is supposed to work.
> 

correct behavior but totally useless.

if you have three or four people, each managing a group of lists on a 
machine, is there no way for them to find out which addresses are 
bouncing for their list sets without receiving all of the bounces for 
every other lists?  maybe it's the responsibility of one person to sort 
out and forward a hundred or more messages to three other people every 
month.

  I don't dispute it may be the best you can do but at this point, the 
best solution is to throw all of those bounce messages into /dev/null 
and ignore the problem of admin directed bounce messages entirely.

and on the subject of bounce messages, more often than not a bounce 
message has insufficient information to tell me what user on what list 
should be removed.  Again, this is the fault of the bounce return data 
but some mechanism for searching the entire subscriber list for all 
lists would be helpful when eliminating no longer valid addresses.

and third, when searching user list visually, it would be helpful to 
have all the subscribers displayed at once.  It's often easier for this 
human to operate on larger data sets than arbitrarily fragmented ones.

---eric



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Jan  1 22:46:40 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 15:46:40 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sorting out bounces
In-Reply-To: <dp9h29$n3j$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <dp90md$f79$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<p06200779bfddd85d8644@[192.168.1.100]>
	<dp9h29$n3j$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <p0620077ebfddfcd712f8@[192.168.1.100]>

At 4:20 PM -0500 2006-01-01, Eric S. Johansson wrote:

>  Brad Knowles wrote:
>>  	Mailman manages the bounces internally, so as to automatically
>>  handle unsubscriptions due to excessive bounces, nonexistent
>>  accounts, etc....
>>
>>  	That's the way it is supposed to work.
>
>  correct behavior but totally useless.

	No, it's not totally useless.  If it was, then the feature would 
never have been implemented that way.

	Now, maybe it doesn't work the way you want, but it is absolutely 
*NOT* "totally useless".

>  if you have three or four people, each managing a group of lists on a
>  machine, is there no way for them to find out which addresses are
>  bouncing for their list sets without receiving all of the bounces for
>  every other lists?

	List admins don't receive the bounces.  The system does.  There 
are many examples of groups of multiple list admins all managing the 
same mailing lists, and having absolutely no problems whatsoever with 
this method.

	Now, one thing you can do is to have the admin get notified when 
a user gets unsubscribed, and a copy of the bounce that resulted in 
that unsubscription.  Alternatively, you can effectively disable the 
bounce management process altogether, but then all list admins would 
receive copies of all bounces.

>    I don't dispute it may be the best you can do but at this point, the
>  best solution is to throw all of those bounce messages into /dev/null
>  and ignore the problem of admin directed bounce messages entirely.

	Then let bounce management work properly within the Mailman 
context, and let the system do what it was designed to do.

	Mailman is an open-source project.  You're perfectly welcome to 
write code to implement a feature the way you want, and contribute 
that code back to the project so that you don't have to keep 
maintaining your patch and re-applying it every time a new version 
comes out.

>  and on the subject of bounce messages, more often than not a bounce
>  message has insufficient information to tell me what user on what list
>  should be removed.

	Which is why you use VERP and personalization.  Try searching the 
FAQ Wizard.

>                      Again, this is the fault of the bounce return data
>  but some mechanism for searching the entire subscriber list for all
>  lists would be helpful when eliminating no longer valid addresses.

	That wouldn't help anyway.  VERP and personalization does.

>  and third, when searching user list visually, it would be helpful to
>  have all the subscribers displayed at once.  It's often easier for this
>  human to operate on larger data sets than arbitrarily fragmented ones.

	Doesn't work when you've got 500,000 subscribers.  If you don't 
like the point at which subscribers are broken into separate groups, 
you can always change that through a setting in mm_cfg.py -- again, 
try searching the FAQ Wizard and the archives of the list.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From thomas at elements.dk  Sun Jan  1 22:43:45 2006
From: thomas at elements.dk (Thomas von Hassel)
Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 22:43:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Shunting msgs.
Message-ID: <F9639581-EB61-4F04-9D37-8FE508330062@elements.dk>

Hi

i have a mailman 2.1.6 installation on freebsd 4.9

Many of the msgs. to my lists are beging shunted with this error:

Uncaught runner exception: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe6 in  
position 18: ordinal not in range(128)

Most of these msgs. are normal, plaintext msgs. Is there a way to  
force these msgs to the list, or is there something i could look at  
so these msgs. don't get shunted.


/thomas




-- 
Thomas von Hassel
thomas at elements.dk

"If it's not on fire then it's a software problem"




From esj at harvee.org  Sun Jan  1 23:22:32 2006
From: esj at harvee.org (Eric S. Johansson)
Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 17:22:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sorting out bounces
In-Reply-To: <p0620077ebfddfcd712f8@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <dp90md$f79$1@sea.gmane.org>	<p06200779bfddd85d8644@[192.168.1.100]>	<dp9h29$n3j$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<p0620077ebfddfcd712f8@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <dp9kn4$vna$1@sea.gmane.org>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> 
> 	Now, maybe it doesn't work the way you want, but it is absolutely 
> *NOT* "totally useless".

your explanations further on were quite helpful and correct my 
misunderstandings.  Therefore I stand corrected on this feature.

> 	List admins don't receive the bounces.  The system does.  There 
> are many examples of groups of multiple list admins all managing the 
> same mailing lists, and having absolutely no problems whatsoever with 
> this method.

and obviously something is broken with my environment and has been for 
years with various distributions.  When the monthly notices go out, the 
human associated with the mailman address gets all of the bounces.

> 	Now, one thing you can do is to have the admin get notified when 
> a user gets unsubscribed, and a copy of the bounce that resulted in 
> that unsubscription.  Alternatively, you can effectively disable the 
> bounce management process altogether, but then all list admins would 
> receive copies of all bounces.

I'm not sure where that setting is because it must be disabled with the 
stock mailman from (running on) sourceforge, ubuntu and gentoo because 
that's how it behaves.  Bounces go to list administrators or the mailman 
owner.

> 	Mailman is an open-source project.  You're perfectly welcome to 
> write code to implement a feature the way you want, and contribute 
> that code back to the project so that you don't have to keep 
> maintaining your patch and re-applying it every time a new version 
> comes out.

I recognize that invitation.  I've handed out many of them on ipcop, 
camram, and akasha in recent times and fig-forth, atari st uupc, and 
cgos kermit in the past.  pray we won't get fooled again (mebby).

> 	Which is why you use VERP and personalization.  Try searching the 
> FAQ Wizard.

thank you for the reference, it's done and looks like it's working.

> 	Doesn't work when you've got 500,000 subscribers.  If you don't 
> like the point at which subscribers are broken into separate groups, 
> you can always change that through a setting in mm_cfg.py -- again, 
> try searching the FAQ Wizard and the archives of the list.

I had months ago and came up empty.  Maybe I should've let my wife do 
that, she has the talent with searches no matter how 'quirky' the engine 
may be.

we shall see how well verping works over the next 35 days and see if 
bounces are handled properly.

--- eric



From rocky at panix.com  Mon Jan  2 06:54:09 2006
From: rocky at panix.com (R. Bernstein)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 00:54:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reducing/redistributing the effort in moderation
	for general lists
Message-ID: <17336.49153.820128.146990@panix3.panix.com>

I've recently become aware that a number of GNU bug and help mailing
lists have gotten bogged down because of the continuous work needed in
modereration. However there is reason to believe that this is problem
is not just related to either GNU or bug and help mailing lists.

If folks have solutions, thoughts or ideas or on this matter, I'd like
to hear them. 

In general I think what is needed is a way to reduce the moderation
effort or make such lists more self-sufficient or "self moderating" to
weed out spam.

Some of this has already been discussed a little on the
mailman-developer list. I guess the main thread on this starts here:

  http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1394592&group_id=103&atid=350103

(Note: some of the thread above strays a little from the above
topic)



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jan  2 07:19:00 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 00:19:00 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reducing/redistributing the effort in
 moderation for general lists
In-Reply-To: <17336.49153.820128.146990@panix3.panix.com>
References: <17336.49153.820128.146990@panix3.panix.com>
Message-ID: <p06200784bfde76308418@[192.168.1.100]>

At 12:54 AM -0500 2006-01-02, R. Bernstein wrote:

>  Some of this has already been discussed a little on the
>  mailman-developer list. I guess the main thread on this starts here:
>
> 
>http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1394592&group_id=103&atid=350103

	That's the SourceForge tracker for the original request.  The 
mailman-developers thread in question actually starts at 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2006-January/018466.html>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From he at reclaimedcomputers.ca  Mon Jan  2 10:47:34 2006
From: he at reclaimedcomputers.ca (Hugh Esco)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 01:47:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List not archiving, please help.
Message-ID: <20060102014734.7604ddfb.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>

Hey folks:

Looking forward to trying out the 2.1.7.

But in the mean time, I'm debugging an archiving issue with
2.1.6.

At: http://<ourhost>/mailman/admin/<listname>/archive

I've set a list configuration to: Publicly archive with
weekly volumes.

The cron jobs are loaded and at least some of the configured
lists are sending mail.  (The others have not yet been tested).
And my apache configuration includes a line like this: 
	Alias /pipermail/ /<install/path>/mailman/archives/public/

But now when there should be four or six messages available
in the archive, I'm seeing only a browser message reading:
	The requested URL /pipermail/<listname>/ was not found
	on this server.

Afraid I have no real background in python, except to have
administered a few mailman installations over the years.

I'd appreciate any clues folks here might share about why my
list is not archiving its traffic.

Thanks, 
-- Hugh 

-- 
RCK Computer Services 
http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/



From thomas at elements.dk  Mon Jan  2 11:44:15 2006
From: thomas at elements.dk (Thomas von Hassel)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:44:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Shunting msgs.
In-Reply-To: <F9639581-EB61-4F04-9D37-8FE508330062@elements.dk>
References: <F9639581-EB61-4F04-9D37-8FE508330062@elements.dk>
Message-ID: <EC9F3F39-20DC-456E-8B2D-1A2B1C25C1C3@elements.dk>


On Jan 1, 2006, at 22:43, Thomas von Hassel wrote:

> Hi
>
> i have a mailman 2.1.6 installation on freebsd 4.9
>
> Many of the msgs. to my lists are beging shunted with this error:
>
> Uncaught runner exception: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe6 in
> position 18: ordinal not in range(128)
>
> Most of these msgs. are normal, plaintext msgs. Is there a way to
> force these msgs to the list, or is there something i could look at
> so these msgs. don't get shunted.
>



Hi again, i really hate to bump threads like this, but after  
extensive searching i could not find a resolution to this problem, or  
a good explanation. ?


/thomas




From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Mon Jan  2 12:34:06 2006
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 20:34:06 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Shunting msgs.
In-Reply-To: <F9639581-EB61-4F04-9D37-8FE508330062@elements.dk>
References: <F9639581-EB61-4F04-9D37-8FE508330062@elements.dk>
Message-ID: <43B90FAE.7020608@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi,

Thomas von Hassel wrote:
> Hi
> 
> i have a mailman 2.1.6 installation on freebsd 4.9
> 
> Many of the msgs. to my lists are beging shunted with this error:
> 
> Uncaught runner exception: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe6 in  
> position 18: ordinal not in range(128)
> 
> Most of these msgs. are normal, plaintext msgs. Is there a way to  
> force these msgs to the list, or is there something i could look at  
> so these msgs. don't get shunted.

Now mailman 2.1.7 is out and more robust with such error, I believe.
Can you send me more details of error log, if you don't mind ?
> 
> 
> /thomas
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/


From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Mon Jan  2 12:41:03 2006
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 20:41:03 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] manual upgrade
In-Reply-To: <20051231152058.46514.qmail@web30409.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051231152058.46514.qmail@web30409.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43B9114F.2020901@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I normally build mailman (./configure; make install) on a dev system then tar/rsync it to a production machine.  I checked the UPGRADING notes in the 2.1.7 release and there is no mention of anything (i.e. withlist, fix_url, etc) that needs to be done when upgrading from 2.1.5 to 2.1.7.    Are lists (and specifically everything in "--with-var-prefix") from a 2.1.5 install compatible with 2.1.7?  If not, what post-install actions need to be taken to upgrade an existing system from 2.1.5 to 2.1.7?
> 

Upgrading from 2.1.5 to 2.1.7 should have no problems.  Everything 
needed is done during the bin/update run in 'make install'.

Cheers,
-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Jan  2 12:41:54 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 20:41:54 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sorting out bounces
In-Reply-To: <dp9kn4$vna$1@sea.gmane.org> (Eric S. Johansson's message of
	"Sun, 01 Jan 2006 17:22:32 -0500")
References: <dp90md$f79$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<p06200779bfddd85d8644@[192.168.1.100]> <dp9h29$n3j$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<p0620077ebfddfcd712f8@[192.168.1.100]> <dp9kn4$vna$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <87hd8monzx.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Eric" == Eric S Johansson <esj at harvee.org> writes:

    >> List admins don't receive the bounces.  The system does.  There
    >> are many examples of groups of multiple list admins all
    >> managing the same mailing lists, and having absolutely no
    >> problems whatsoever with this method.

    Eric> and obviously something is broken with my environment and
    Eric> has been for years with various distributions.  When the
    Eric> monthly notices go out, the human associated with the
    Eric> mailman address gets all of the bounces.

Could you take a look at the bounce processing page
(http://YOUR-SERVER.TLD/lists/admin/LISTNAME/bounce or so) and tell us
what the settings are?

Since you say "monthly notices", I suppose you're not seeing
spam-related bounces (that would be daily...).  For the sake of
completeness, I mention that I've seen a _lot_ of bounces coming back
because spammers have picked up on the mailman admin addresses.  These
get through to a human because they're "unrecognized bounces".


-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Jan  2 12:48:36 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 20:48:36 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Shunting msgs.
In-Reply-To: <F9639581-EB61-4F04-9D37-8FE508330062@elements.dk> (Thomas von
	Hassel's message of "Sun, 1 Jan 2006 22:43:45 +0100")
References: <F9639581-EB61-4F04-9D37-8FE508330062@elements.dk>
Message-ID: <87d5jaonor.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Thomas" == Thomas von Hassel <thomas at elements.dk> writes:

    Thomas> Hi i have a mailman 2.1.6 installation on freebsd 4.9

    Thomas> Many of the msgs. to my lists are beging shunted with this
    Thomas> error:

    Thomas> Uncaught runner exception: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte
    Thomas> 0xe6 in position 18: ordinal not in range(128)

My guess it that you have a lot of users with MUAs that don't conform
to RFC 822 (let alone RFC 2822), and they are sending non-ASCII in the
headers.  Mailman doesn't like that.  (Do your users normally use the
"ae" ligature---ISO-8859-1 value of 0xE6?)

    Thomas> Most of these msgs. are normal, plaintext msgs. Is there a
    Thomas> way to force these msgs to the list, or is there something
    Thomas> i could look at so these msgs. don't get shunted.

If it's what I think it is, no.  Mailman 2.1.x simply assumes that
(raw) headers are not going to contain non-ASCII, period.  *All*
headers that will display as non-ASCII must be MIME-encoded.


-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From thomas at elements.dk  Mon Jan  2 13:02:18 2006
From: thomas at elements.dk (Thomas von Hassel)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 13:02:18 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Shunting msgs.
In-Reply-To: <87d5jaonor.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <F9639581-EB61-4F04-9D37-8FE508330062@elements.dk>
	<87d5jaonor.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <CEDAEB75-A0EE-45E3-A692-D826C3F77B43@elements.dk>

Hi

I think i found a solution to my problem at least. On further  
inspection the function that produced the error was the one appending  
the standard footer. When i remove the footer text in mailman, the  
msgs. are deliverd normally


/thomas


On Jan 2, 2006, at 12:48, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>>>>>> "Thomas" == Thomas von Hassel <thomas at elements.dk> writes:
>
>     Thomas> Hi i have a mailman 2.1.6 installation on freebsd 4.9
>
>     Thomas> Many of the msgs. to my lists are beging shunted with this
>     Thomas> error:
>
>     Thomas> Uncaught runner exception: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte
>     Thomas> 0xe6 in position 18: ordinal not in range(128)
>
> My guess it that you have a lot of users with MUAs that don't conform
> to RFC 822 (let alone RFC 2822), and they are sending non-ASCII in the
> headers.  Mailman doesn't like that.  (Do your users normally use the
> "ae" ligature---ISO-8859-1 value of 0xE6?)
>
>     Thomas> Most of these msgs. are normal, plaintext msgs. Is there a
>     Thomas> way to force these msgs to the list, or is there something
>     Thomas> i could look at so these msgs. don't get shunted.
>
> If it's what I think it is, no.  Mailman 2.1.x simply assumes that
> (raw) headers are not going to contain non-ASCII, period.  *All*
> headers that will display as non-ASCII must be MIME-encoded.
>
>
> -- 
> School of Systems and Information Engineering http:// 
> turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
> University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba  
> 305-8573 JAPAN
>                Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
>               ask what your business can "do for" free software.

Thomas von Hassel
thomas at elements.dk

"Foiled in yellow this direction, the lawyer next spoon advised  
making the
hot attempt"




From esj at harvee.org  Mon Jan  2 18:00:44 2006
From: esj at harvee.org (Eric S. Johansson)
Date: Mon, 02 Jan 2006 12:00:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sorting out bounces
In-Reply-To: <87hd8monzx.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <dp90md$f79$1@sea.gmane.org>	<p06200779bfddd85d8644@[192.168.1.100]>
	<dp9h29$n3j$1@sea.gmane.org>	<p0620077ebfddfcd712f8@[192.168.1.100]>
	<dp9kn4$vna$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<87hd8monzx.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <dpbm7o$n6g$1@sea.gmane.org>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>>>>>> "Eric" == Eric S Johansson <esj at harvee.org> writes:
> Could you take a look at the bounce processing page
> (http://YOUR-SERVER.TLD/lists/admin/LISTNAME/bounce or so) and tell us
> what the settings are?


bounce_processing: yes
bounce_score_threshold: 5.0
bounce_info_stale_after: 7
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings: 3
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval: 7
bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner: yes
bounce_notify_owner_on_disable: yes
bounce_notify_owner_on_removal: yes

> Since you say "monthly notices", I suppose you're not seeing
> spam-related bounces (that would be daily...).  For the sake of
> completeness, I mention that I've seen a _lot_ of bounces coming back
> because spammers have picked up on the mailman admin addresses.  These
> get through to a human because they're "unrecognized bounces".

I really hate to brag, but I must.  My antispam system reduces those 
kind of bounce notices to one or two a week at most with no false 
positives for any list.   However in its current form, I wouldn't 
recommended it for sites with a traffic rate of greater than 4-8 
messages per second.  On the other hand, it is running on a Pentium 
III/500 MHz machine with heavy logging and I have never really pushed it.

--- eric



From munzirtaha at gmail.com  Mon Jan  2 22:39:05 2006
From: munzirtaha at gmail.com (Munzir Taha)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 00:39:05 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Invalid :                    @hotmail.com
Message-ID: <200601030039.10365.munzirtaha@gmail.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi sirs,

# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/sync_members -w=no -f myfile.list mylistname
Invalid :                    @hotmail.com

Any hint why I got this error? I checked the myfile.list and can't see any 
mail without the username part.

$ grep '^@' myfile.list
$

- -- 
Munzir Taha
Telecommunications and Electronics Engineer
Maintainer of Fedora Arabic Translation Project
https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-ar
Maintainer of the OpenBugs project page at
http://www.arabic-fedora.org/munzir/OpenBugs.html
Master CIW Designer, ICDL, MOUS, Linux+, LPI 101
Riyadh, SA
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFDuZ1+OBlicvBnGCERAsJsAJ9gWG6mMNV0K9Eql+u/uRnMblAplACfbuX1
1Ip1iDaiCZDF1J1tGeoMdxY=
=+SOs
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in  Mon Jan  2 18:06:46 2006
From: nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in (Kabilan L)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 22:36:46 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help !!! Having Subgroups/Subsets a group
Message-ID: <20060102165912.M51465@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>

Hello!!!

I have Centos sever having mailman-2.1.5-33.rhel4 installed and configured it
is working fine.I have LDAP running on my server.I have an doubt in the
creating new lists/groups.I want to have subgroups.For example
i have students suppose in 
ms group
phd group
btech group
Here all of them are students i don't want to add their ids to the group
students ratheri i want this 
         students
   |---------|------------|
   ms        phd          btech 
that is ms/phd/btech subgroups of students.
Is it possible?
THANKING U ALL 



Kabilan.L
Department of Electrical Engineering
IIT Madras
Chennai - 600 036
Tamil Nadu, INDIA


"The secret to winning football games is working more as a team, less as
individuals. I play not my 11 best, but my best 11." ->Knute Rockne



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jan  2 23:10:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 14:10:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Invalid :                    @hotmail.com
In-Reply-To: <200601030039.10365.munzirtaha@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601021410150984cb653167@msapiro>

Munzir Taha wrote:
>
># /usr/lib/mailman/bin/sync_members -w=no -f myfile.list mylistname
>Invalid :                    @hotmail.com
>
>Any hint why I got this error? I checked the myfile.list and can't see any 
>mail without the username part.
>
>$ grep '^@' myfile.list
>$

Maybe there's a space, tab, backspace or other 'transparent' character
preceding the '@'. What do you get if you do

grep '[^[:alnum:]]@' myfile.list

or

grep '[[:cntrl:][:space:]]@' myfile.list

etc.?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Irosenblum at nyc.rr.com  Mon Jan  2 23:43:20 2006
From: Irosenblum at nyc.rr.com (Ira Rosenblum)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 17:43:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages not being sent
Message-ID: <AD250B40-7740-43C9-86A8-8B37A34554B6@nyc.rr.com>

I set up a mailing list using Mailman 2.1.6 and all the configuration  
seems correct, yet some messages sent to the list are not making it  
to the group members (even though the messages appear in the list  
archives). Has anyone else had this problem and if so, what did you  
do to solve it? I am not a "tekkie" so the simpler the instructions,  
the better!
I.R.


From carbonnb at gmail.com  Tue Jan  3 01:24:14 2006
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 19:24:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Logging Archive Creation in MM2.1.7
Message-ID: <e04a6c920601021624h4efa87eeq@mail.gmail.com>

Does Mailman log anything when you try and rebuild the archive from
the commandline?

The reason I am asking is that I have just installed MM2.1.7 on a test
box and tried to rebuild the archive and I get an error with every
archive I try and rebuild and I would like to try and track down what
is causing the error.

The error I get is:
Pickling archive state into /var/mailman/archives/private/dba-vb/pipermail.pck
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./bin/arch", line 200, in ?
    main()
  File "./bin/arch", line 188, in main
    archiver.processUnixMailbox(fp, start, end)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 585, in
processUnixMailbox
    self.add_article(a)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 626, in add_article
    filename))
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 1116, in write_article
    f.write(article.as_text())
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 579, in as_text
    '\g<1>' + _(' at ') + '\g<2>', body)
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/sre.py", line 143, in sub
    return _compile(pattern, 0).sub(repl, string, count)
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xa3 in position
2025: ordinal not in range(128)

I have looked through the mbox file and all the ascii characters
greater than 128 are in the body of the e-mails. The 2 characters that
i can find are the British Pound sign and what appears to be a MS
"smart" single quote.

I even brought the mbox over to my Windows box (I only know how to
read a text file in a windows environment) and examined each character
individually and didn't find any invalid characters in the headers.

Can anyone help me try and debug this?

Thanks,

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"


From carbonnb at gmail.com  Tue Jan  3 01:27:55 2006
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 19:27:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Logging Archive Creation in MM2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <e04a6c920601021624h4efa87eeq@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e04a6c920601021624h4efa87eeq@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e04a6c920601021627h4dadce2ap@mail.gmail.com>

On 02/01/06, Bryan Carbonnell <carbonnb at gmail.com> wrote:
> Does Mailman log anything when you try and rebuild the archive from
> the commandline?

> I have looked through the mbox file and all the ascii characters
> greater than 128 are in the body of the e-mails. The 2 characters that
> i can find are the British Pound sign and what appears to be a MS
> "smart" single quote.
>
> I even brought the mbox over to my Windows box (I only know how to
> read a text file in a windows environment) and examined each character
> individually and didn't find any invalid characters in the headers.
>
> Can anyone help me try and debug this?

Whoops, should have added that i get the error using Python 2.3.5 and
just upgraded 2.4.2 on a RedHat Linux 7.3 box.

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"


From munzirtaha at gmail.com  Tue Jan  3 02:23:09 2006
From: munzirtaha at gmail.com (Munzir Taha)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 04:23:09 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Invalid :                    @hotmail.com
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601021410150984cb653167@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200601021410150984cb653167@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200601030423.14331.munzirtaha@gmail.com>

?? ??? ????????? 03 ?? ?????? 1426 01:10, ??? Mark Sapiro:
> Munzir Taha wrote:
> ># /usr/lib/mailman/bin/sync_members -w=no -f myfile.list mylistname
> >Invalid :                    @hotmail.com
> >
> >Any hint why I got this error? I checked the myfile.list and can't see any
> >mail without the username part.
> >
> >$ grep '^@' myfile.list
> >$

Thanks Mark for your always generous help

> Maybe there's a space, tab, backspace or other 'transparent' character
> preceding the '@'. What do you get if you do
>
> grep '[^[:alnum:]]@' myfile.list

This gave me a list of all the users with underscore (_) before @

$ grep '[^[:alnum:]]@' islamqa-en.list |wc -l
21
$ grep '_@' islamqa-en.list |wc -l
21

> or
>
> grep '[[:cntrl:][:space:]]@' myfile.list

no result.

> etc.?


I will try to figure which name is the culprit but the mystry lies behind the 
fact that since I compiled all these names from running list_members > 
myfile.list how come that email (if defected) was there?!


-- 
Munzir Taha
Telecommunications and Electronics Engineer
Maintainer of Fedora Arabic Translation Project
https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-ar
Maintainer of the OpenBugs project page at
http://www.arabic-fedora.org/munzir/OpenBugs.html
Master CIW Designer, ICDL, MOUS, Linux+, LPI 101
Riyadh, SA
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From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan  3 03:22:42 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 18:22:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Logging Archive Creation in MM2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <e04a6c920601021624h4efa87eeq@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601021822420109f2b462d7@msapiro>

Bryan Carbonnell wrote:
>
>The error I get is:
>Pickling archive state into /var/mailman/archives/private/dba-vb/pipermail.pck
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "./bin/arch", line 200, in ?
>    main()
>  File "./bin/arch", line 188, in main
>    archiver.processUnixMailbox(fp, start, end)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 585, in
>processUnixMailbox
>    self.add_article(a)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 626, in add_article
>    filename))
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 1116, in write_article
>    f.write(article.as_text())
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 579, in as_text
>    '\g<1>' + _(' at ') + '\g<2>', body)
>  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.3/sre.py", line 143, in sub
>    return _compile(pattern, 0).sub(repl, string, count)
>UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xa3 in position
>2025: ordinal not in range(128)
>
>I have looked through the mbox file and all the ascii characters
>greater than 128 are in the body of the e-mails. The 2 characters that
>i can find are the British Pound sign and what appears to be a MS
>"smart" single quote.

The problem occurs when the archiver tries to obscure email addresses
in the body of a post (read from the .mbox file with bin/arch or
presumably, a new post being archived too) before adding it to the
monthly .txt file, and the body of the post contains a non-ascii
character or characters.

See
<https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1395683&group_id=103&atid=100103>
for another report and a patch that can be applied to allow rebuilding
of the archive.

The patch in the above report will not actually fix the problem as the
rebuilt archive will not have email addresses obscured in the .txt
files in the bodies of those posts with non-ascii characters.

Also the problem doesn't occur if

ARCHIVER_OBSCURES_EMAILADDRS = No

in mm_cfg.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From carbonnb at gmail.com  Tue Jan  3 04:02:15 2006
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 22:02:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Logging Archive Creation in MM2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601021822420109f2b462d7@msapiro>
References: <e04a6c920601021624h4efa87eeq@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200601021822420109f2b462d7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <e04a6c920601021902n6c89217bl@mail.gmail.com>

On 02/01/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Bryan Carbonnell wrote:
> >
> >The error I get is:
<snip>
> >UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xa3 in position
> >2025: ordinal not in range(128)
> >
> >I have looked through the mbox file and all the ascii characters
> >greater than 128 are in the body of the e-mails. The 2 characters that
> >i can find are the British Pound sign and what appears to be a MS
> >"smart" single quote.
>
> The problem occurs when the archiver tries to obscure email addresses
> in the body of a post (read from the .mbox file with bin/arch or
> presumably, a new post being archived too) before adding it to the
> monthly .txt file, and the body of the post contains a non-ascii
> character or characters.
>
> See
> <https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1395683&group_id=103&atid=100103>
> for another report and a patch that can be applied to allow rebuilding
> of the archive.
>
> The patch in the above report will not actually fix the problem as the
> rebuilt archive will not have email addresses obscured in the .txt
> files in the bodies of those posts with non-ascii characters.
>
> Also the problem doesn't occur if
>
> ARCHIVER_OBSCURES_EMAILADDRS = No
>
> in mm_cfg.py.

So, let me just see if I have this right, this error only happens when
I rebuild the archive?

Will it happen when new posts are sent to the list, and therefore archived?

I don't rebuild archives often, it's just one of the things I do when
I'm testing out a new version.

I'm not really sure if I want to deploy this version if it doesn't
obscure the addresses in the archives. I understand that it's just the
.txt files and not the HTML files, but I'm not sure if I want to
expose my users to a possible spam harvesting goldmine.

Thanks though Mark. I do appreciate the quick response.

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan  3 04:39:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 19:39:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Logging Archive Creation in MM2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <e04a6c920601021902n6c89217bl@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006010219393300008ba16ac1@msapiro>

Bryan Carbonnell wrote:
>
>So, let me just see if I have this right, this error only happens when
>I rebuild the archive?


I think it happens with new posts too.


>Will it happen when new posts are sent to the list, and therefore archived?


I haven't actually checked this out, but what I think will happen is if
the post contains only ascii in the body, it will be archived
normally. If it contains non-ascii in the body, it will be properly
added to the global listname.mbox/listname.mbox file and the HTML
archive, but it won't be added to the monthly .txt file. If you
install the avoidance patch, it will be added to the .txt file without
obscuring addresses in the body (e.g., signatures).


>I don't rebuild archives often, it's just one of the things I do when
>I'm testing out a new version.
>
>I'm not really sure if I want to deploy this version if it doesn't
>obscure the addresses in the archives. I understand that it's just the
>.txt files and not the HTML files, but I'm not sure if I want to
>expose my users to a possible spam harvesting goldmine.


If you install the patch I referred to, it will only be the non-ascii
posts that are not obscured and only addresses in the body such as
signatures. Addresses in the headers will be obscured normally.


>Thanks though Mark. I do appreciate the quick response.


I intend to develop a proper fix within a day or two. As soon as I can
get a grasp on what 2.1.7 change is causing this changed behavior.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan  3 06:27:14 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 21:27:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Logging Archive Creation in MM2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006010219393300008ba16ac1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC17402006010221271405159afc4271@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>I intend to develop a proper fix within a day or two. As soon as I can
>get a grasp on what 2.1.7 change is causing this changed behavior.

Please go to
<https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1395683&group_id=103&atid=100103>
and download and try the HyperArch.patch id 161935.

I think this patch should completely fix the problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From he at reclaimedcomputers.ca  Tue Jan  3 07:05:14 2006
From: he at reclaimedcomputers.ca (Hugh Esco)
Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 22:05:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with Archives, please help
Message-ID: <20060102220514.6d10dd22.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>

Hey folks:

Looking forward to trying out the 2.1.7.

But in the mean time, I'm debugging an archiving issue with
2.1.6.

At: http://<ourhost>/mailman/admin/<listname>/archive

I've set a list configuration to: Publicly archive with
weekly volumes.

The cron jobs are loaded and at least some of the configured
lists are sending mail.  (The others have not yet been tested).
And my apache configuration includes a line like this: 
	Alias /pipermail/ /<install/path>/mailman/archives/public/

But now when there should be four or six messages available
in the archive, I'm seeing only a browser message reading:
	The requested URL /pipermail/<listname>/ was not found
	on this server.

Afraid I have no real background in python, except to have
administered a few mailman installations over the years.

I'd appreciate any clues folks here might share about why my
list is not archiving its traffic.

Thanks, 
-- Hugh 

-- 
RCK Computer Services 
http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/


From alba01 at dfki.de  Tue Jan  3 11:26:55 2006
From: alba01 at dfki.de (Alexander Baldauf)
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 11:26:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] It's not possible to add new members
Message-ID: <43BA516F.4030106@dfki.de>

Hi

last weekend, we updated mailman to version 2.1.5, but after the update, 
it's not possible to add new members to any list. There ist just a error 
message like this:


    Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5


      We're sorry, we hit a bug!

If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy 
of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what 
happened. Thanks!


        Traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
    main()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 175, in main
    change_options(mlist, category, subcat, cgidata, doc)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 1339, in change_options
    whence='admin mass sub')
TypeError: ApprovedAddMember() got an unexpected keyword argument 'whence'



------------------------------------------------------------------------


        Python information:

Variable 	Value
sys.version 	2.3+ (#1, Feb 7 2005, 18:30:23) [GCC 3.3.1 (SuSE Linux)]
sys.executable 	/usr/bin/python
sys.prefix 	/usr
sys.exec_prefix 	/usr
sys.path 	/usr
sys.platform 	linux2

------------------------------------------------------------------------


        Environment variables:

Variable 	Value
HTTP_X_FORWARDED_SERVER 	www.dfki.de
HTTP_REFERER 	http://www.dfki.de/mailman/admin/anvil/members/add
HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE 	en-us,en;q=0.5
SERVER_SOFTWARE 	Apache/1.3.28 (Linux/SuSE)
SCRIPT_NAME 	/mailman/admin
SERVER_SIGNATURE 	
REQUEST_METHOD 	POST
PATH_INFO 	/anvil/members/add
SERVER_PROTOCOL 	HTTP/1.1
QUERY_STRING 	
CONTENT_LENGTH 	1031
HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET 	ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7
HTTP_USER_AGENT 	Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.12) 
Gecko/20050920 Firefox/1.0.7 SUSE/1.0.7-0.1
HTTP_CONNECTION 	close
HTTP_COOKIE 
anvil+admin=280200000069bd4cba43732800000063326537613465663231353832383565386130353662306339343964616164383166393062313963 

SERVER_NAME 	www.dfki.de/pipermail
REMOTE_ADDR 	134.96.188.10
PATH_TRANSLATED 	/srv/www/htdocs/anvil/members/add
SERVER_PORT 	80
SERVER_ADDR 	134.96.188.26
DOCUMENT_ROOT 	/srv/www/htdocs
PYTHONPATH 	/usr/lib/mailman
SCRIPT_FILENAME 	/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/admin
SERVER_ADMIN 	you at your.address
HTTP_HOST 	mail.dfki.de
REQUEST_URI 	/mailman/admin/anvil/members/add
HTTP_ACCEPT 
text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5 

GATEWAY_INTERFACE 	CGI/1.1
HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR 	134.96.188.153
REMOTE_PORT 	43279
HTTP_X_FORWARDED_HOST 	www.dfki.de
CONTENT_TYPE 	multipart/form-data; 
boundary=---------------------------185487932018472925631678055047
HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING 	gzip,deflate

We searched in the admin.py but we didn't find the error.

Greets
Alexander Baldauf

P.S. A happy new year to all


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------
+++ German Research Center for Artificial Intelligence +++
+++    I N F R A  -  S T R U C T U R E  -  G R O U P   +++
----------------------------------------------------------
DFKI GmbH, ISG, Stuhlsatzenhausweg 3, D-66123 Saarbruecken
@office: +49-681-302-5572/5514/5078 @fax: +49-681-302-5341
mailto:isg-sb at dfki.de ++ Germany ++ http://www.dfki.de/isg
----------------------------------------------------------



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Jan  3 13:55:17 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 06:55:17 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with Archives, please help
In-Reply-To: <20060102220514.6d10dd22.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
References: <20060102220514.6d10dd22.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
Message-ID: <p06200794bfe0243b4f29@[192.168.1.100]>

At 10:05 PM -0800 2006-01-02, Hugh Esco wrote:

>  But now when there should be four or six messages available
>  in the archive, I'm seeing only a browser message reading:
>  	The requested URL /pipermail/<listname>/ was not found
>  	on this server.

	This sounds like you may not have done the Apache/web server 
configuration correctly.  You might want to re-check the installation 
instructions against your Apache config, character for character.

>  Afraid I have no real background in python, except to have
>  administered a few mailman installations over the years.

	This doesn't seem to me like it would be a Python problem.  This 
feels more like an Apache/web server problem.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Jan  3 13:58:41 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 06:58:41 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] It's not possible to add new members
In-Reply-To: <43BA516F.4030106@dfki.de>
References: <43BA516F.4030106@dfki.de>
Message-ID: <p06200795bfe025218512@[192.168.1.100]>

At 11:26 AM +0100 2006-01-03, Alexander Baldauf wrote:

>          Python information:
>
>  Variable 	Value
>  sys.version 	2.3+ (#1, Feb 7 2005, 18:30:23) [GCC 3.3.1 (SuSE Linux)]
>  sys.executable 	/usr/bin/python
>  sys.prefix 	/usr
>  sys.exec_prefix 	/usr
>  sys.path 	/usr
>  sys.platform 	linux2

	Are you sure that this is the version of Python that is being 
used by Mailman?  Is there any other version of Python installed that 
might be used instead?  Can you confirm precisely which version of 
Python this is?

	IIRC, Mailman 2.1.5 requires Python 2.3, but any later version of 
2.3.x should also work.  However, Python 2.4 may or may not work 
correctly with Mailman 2.1.5.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From carbonnb at gmail.com  Tue Jan  3 14:18:05 2006
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 08:18:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Logging Archive Creation in MM2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006010221271405159afc4271@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006010219393300008ba16ac1@msapiro>
	<PC17402006010221271405159afc4271@msapiro>
Message-ID: <e04a6c920601030518r7118185fo@mail.gmail.com>

On 03/01/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >
> >I intend to develop a proper fix within a day or two. As soon as I can
> >get a grasp on what 2.1.7 change is causing this changed behavior.
>
> Please go to
> <https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1395683&group_id=103&atid=100103>
> and download and try the HyperArch.patch id 161935.
>
> I think this patch should completely fix the problem.

I gave the patch a whirl this morning, and all looks good.

Thanks again Mark.

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"


From alba01 at dfki.de  Tue Jan  3 15:00:05 2006
From: alba01 at dfki.de (Alexander Baldauf)
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 15:00:05 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] It's not possible to add new members
In-Reply-To: <p06200795bfe025218512@[192.168.1.100]>
References: <43BA516F.4030106@dfki.de> <p06200795bfe025218512@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <43BA8365.7040209@dfki.de>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 11:26 AM +0100 2006-01-03, Alexander Baldauf wrote:
>
>>          Python information:
>>
>>  Variable     Value
>>  sys.version     2.3+ (#1, Feb 7 2005, 18:30:23) [GCC 3.3.1 (SuSE 
>> Linux)]
>>  sys.executable     /usr/bin/python
>>  sys.prefix     /usr
>>  sys.exec_prefix     /usr
>>  sys.path     /usr
>>  sys.platform     linux2
>
>     Are you sure that this is the version of Python that is being used 
> by Mailman?  Is there any other version of Python installed that might 
> be used instead?  Can you confirm precisely which version of Python 
> this is?
>
>     IIRC, Mailman 2.1.5 requires Python 2.3, but any later version of 
> 2.3.x should also work.  However, Python 2.4 may or may not work 
> correctly with Mailman 2.1.5.
>
Hi
yes, this is the only version of python running on this server.


From mcnutt at utk.edu  Tue Jan  3 16:29:44 2006
From: mcnutt at utk.edu (mcnutt)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 10:29:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Output from "cron" command
Message-ID: <UTK-CLSwSA1XvpFVjCR0000005f@utk-cls.UTKCLS>

My Mailman installation appears to be working okay, but I'm getting this
message once per day.

What's wrong?

Bill McNutt
IT Administrator, UT Center for Literacy Studies
http://cls.coe.utk.edu

-----Original Message-----
From: Mailman [mailto:mailman at cls.coe.utk.edu] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 8:00 AM
To: mailman at cls.coe.utk.edu
Subject: Output from "cron" command

Your "cron" job on cls
/usr/local/bin/python -S /usr/local/mailman/cron/checkdbs

produced the following output:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 203, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 104, in main
    discarded = auto_discard(mlist)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 192, in auto_discard
    heldmsgs = mlist.GetHeldMessageIds()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 143, in
GetHeldMessageIds
    return self.__getmsgids(HELDMSG)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 138, in __getmsgids
    ids = [k for k, (op, data) in self.__db.items() if op == rtype]
ValueError: too many values to unpack




From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan  3 18:35:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 09:35:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Logging Archive Creation in MM2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <e04a6c920601030518r7118185fo@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006010309355007034135c891@msapiro>

Bryan Carbonnell wrote:

>On 03/01/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>>
>> Please go to
>> <https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1395683&group_id=103&atid=100103>
>> and download and try the HyperArch.patch id 161935.
>>
>> I think this patch should completely fix the problem.
>
>I gave the patch a whirl this morning, and all looks good.


Patch # 161935 didn't work in all circumstances. I have replaced it
with # 161995 attached to the above tracker item. This should be
better.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sean at adoptionmedia.com  Tue Jan  3 18:29:54 2006
From: sean at adoptionmedia.com (Sean Roe)
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 10:29:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domains problem
Message-ID: <43BAB492.7030705@adoptionmedia.com>

Hi All,

I am setting up a mailman server running Debian sarge, exim4, and 
mailman 2.1.6 that supports several domains, and have run into a bit of 
a problem.  I have set up the virtual domains per the documentation but 
I am running into an issue when I test the installations.  Here is the 
output from the mainlog in exim4:

2006-01-03 09:42:52 1EtpFL-0003iz-RY == test_emag at adoptionweek.com 
R=mailman_router T=mailman_transport defer (2): No such file or 
directory: failed to chdir to /data/mailman/:adoptionweek.com


I believe the problem is the colon at the begining of sub directory 
name.  I cant seem to find where that is coming from.  Below are the 
changes I made to exim to deal with the virt domains:

in 01_exim4-config_listmacrosdefs:

MM_HOME=/data/mailman/${lc::$domain}
MM_UID=mailman
MM_GID=mailman
domainlist 
mm_domains=adoptionweek.com:lists.adoptionweek.com:e-magazine.adoption.com:lists.adoption.com:adoption.c
om:adoptionlists.com
MM_WRAP=MM_HOME/mail/mailman
MM_LISTCHK=MM_HOME/lists/${lc::$local_part}/config.pck

in 099_exim4-config_mailman:

mailman_router:
    driver = accept
    domains = +mm_domains
    require_files = MM_LISTCHK
    local_part_suffix_optional
    local_part_suffix = -admin     : \
                        -bounces   : -bounces+* : \
                        -confirm   : -confirm+* : \
                        -join      : -leave     : \
                        -owner    : -request   : \
                        -subscribe : -unsubscribe
    transport = mailman_transport


in 30_exim4-config_mailman:
  mailman_transport:
    driver = pipe
    command = MM_WRAP \
              '${if def:local_part_suffix \
                    {${sg{$local_part_suffix}{-(\\w+)(\\+.*)?}{\$1}}} \
                    {post}}' \
              $local_part
    current_directory = MM_HOME
    home_directory = MM_HOME
    user = MM_UID
    group = MM_GID



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan  3 18:50:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 09:50:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Invalid :                    @hotmail.com
In-Reply-To: <200601030423.14331.munzirtaha@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601030950100750accd2558@msapiro>

Munzir Taha wrote:
>
>I will try to figure which name is the culprit but the mystry lies behind the
>fact that since I compiled all these names from running list_members >
>myfile.list how come that email (if defected) was there?!

Pre 2.1.6 Mailman was not as fussy about 'funny' characters in email
addresses as 2.1.6 and subsequent are. Thus, it is possible to have an
older address on a list which is not currently considered valid.

Have you tried 

grep '@hotmail.com' myfile.list

Also, if you made the list with --fullnames, there may be something in
the name that is causing confusion.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hujjah313 at hotmail.com  Tue Jan  3 18:51:40 2006
From: hujjah313 at hotmail.com (Hujjah 313)
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 17:51:40 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Backing up your mailing list
Message-ID: <BAY114-F11B99BC0F8BDC4E1025E29EA2C0@phx.gbl>

Dear all,

Is there a feature on mailman whereby we can backup our mailing list on hard 
disk?

Its quite necessary to have a hard copy of your list when dealing with 
10,000+ emails where people constantly want to subscribe and unsubscribe.

Thank you for any replies.

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN Search Toolbar now includes Desktop search! 
http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/



From cpz at tuunq.com  Tue Jan  3 18:59:01 2006
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 09:59:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Backing up your mailing list
In-Reply-To: <BAY114-F11B99BC0F8BDC4E1025E29EA2C0@phx.gbl> from Hujjah 313 at
	"Jan 3, 2006 05:51:40 pm"
Message-ID: <20060103175901.562897AF@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Hujjah 313 wrote:

> Is there a feature on mailman whereby we can backup our mailing list on hard 
> disk?

Well, they're already on the server's hard disks. If you want to back up the
lists, all you need to do is copy them, they're in the mailman/lists dir.
Given the size of the rest of MM, you might as well copy out the entire
mailman directory tree. (OTOH, all server disks ought to be backed up 
already.) 

> Its quite necessary to have a hard copy of your list when dealing with 
> 10,000+ emails where people constantly want to subscribe and unsubscribe.

That's a lot of members to keep on hard copy, so I'm sure I don't understand
the reasoning. I don't bother keeping lists of 20 on hard copy. If you just 
need a list of all members, list_members will produce that. Run it w/o
arguments for help.

z!


From jwblist at loricamail.com  Tue Jan  3 19:05:36 2006
From: jwblist at loricamail.com (John W. Baxter)
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 10:05:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domains problem
In-Reply-To: <43BAB492.7030705@adoptionmedia.com>
Message-ID: <BFDFFCF0.A325%jwblist@loricamail.com>

On 1/3/06 9:29 AM, "Sean Roe" <sean at adoptionmedia.com> wrote:

The macro
> MM_LISTCHK=MM_HOME/lists/${lc::$local_part}/config.pck
is later used in a list context
>     require_files = MM_LISTCHK

So I to would expect the : in $(lc:$local_part) to have to be doubled.  But
what seems to be happening is that the second of the pair of colons is being
picked up as part of the string to be lower-cased.

You could make certain that the colon *doesn't* need to be doubled by
changing the list separator character in the require_files option:
require_files = <; MM_LISTCHK

If you do that, then for sure you only need a single : in the MM_LISTCHK
macro.  (You need to do the same magic other places the macro is used in
list context.)

  --John




From tristan at teslamotors.com  Tue Jan  3 20:08:27 2006
From: tristan at teslamotors.com (Tristan Colson)
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 11:08:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman page won't display in browser (using VPN)
Message-ID: <43BACBAB.3080206@teslamotors.com>

When I try to invoke our Mailman installation in a browser (Firefox, 
although it doesn't work in IE either), via our corporate VPN 
(Netscreen-Remote on Windows XP), instead of displaying the page in the 
browser, it attempts to download a file.
 I see the message:
-------------------------------------
You have chosen to open

which is a: application/x-httpd-php
from: http://mailman.ourcompany.com

What should Firefox do with this file?
--------------------------------------
(Note: the filename above is blank)

Mailman works fine from directly within our network, it just doesn't 
work when I am using the VPN. I imagine it has more to do with the VPN 
than with Mailman, but so far Mailman is the only web application that 
behaves in this fashion, so I am looking for clues as to what might be 
causing this behaviour. Seems like some kind of weird MIME-type bug, but 
I'm not sure what (other PHP applications behave fine within our VPN).

Would appreciate any clues...



______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email 
______________________________________________________________________


From sean at adoptionmedia.com  Tue Jan  3 23:09:53 2006
From: sean at adoptionmedia.com (Sean Roe)
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 15:09:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domains problem
In-Reply-To: <BFDFFCF0.A325%jwblist@loricamail.com>
References: <BFDFFCF0.A325%jwblist@loricamail.com>
Message-ID: <43BAF631.2060809@adoptionmedia.com>

Hi All,

The changes I made were to exim's list_macrodefs:
from:
MM_LISTCHK=MM_HOME/lists/${lc::$local_part}/config.pck
to:
MM_LISTCHK=MM_HOME/lists/${lc:$local_part}/config.pck

and mailman_router:
from:
require_files = MM_LISTCHK
to:
require_files = <; MM_LISTCHK

I made the changes above, but now exim4 says the addresses are unroutable:
#exim4 -bt test_emag at adoptionweek.com
R: system_aliases for test_emag at localhost
test_emag at adoptionweek.com is undeliverable:
  Unrouteable address

I reverted the changes and get this:
#exim4 -bt test_emag at adoptionweek.com
test_emag at adoptionweek.com
  router = mailman_router, transport = mailman_transport

Is there anything else I need to do to make this work?  I didn't see any 
other reference to MM_LISTCHK

Thanks,
Sean

John W. Baxter wrote:
> On 1/3/06 9:29 AM, "Sean Roe" <sean at adoptionmedia.com> wrote:
>
> The macro
>   
>> MM_LISTCHK=MM_HOME/lists/${lc::$local_part}/config.pck
>>     
> is later used in a list context
>   
>>     require_files = MM_LISTCHK
>>     
>
> So I to would expect the : in $(lc:$local_part) to have to be doubled.  But
> what seems to be happening is that the second of the pair of colons is being
> picked up as part of the string to be lower-cased.
>
> You could make certain that the colon *doesn't* need to be doubled by
> changing the list separator character in the require_files option:
> require_files = <; MM_LISTCHK
>
> If you do that, then for sure you only need a single : in the MM_LISTCHK
> macro.  (You need to do the same magic other places the macro is used in
> list context.)
>
>   --John
>
>   



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan  3 23:25:32 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 14:25:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domains problem
In-Reply-To: <43BAB492.7030705@adoptionmedia.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601031425320281dd26a599@msapiro>

Sean Roe wrote:
>
>2006-01-03 09:42:52 1EtpFL-0003iz-RY == test_emag at adoptionweek.com 
>R=mailman_router T=mailman_transport defer (2): No such file or 
>directory: failed to chdir to /data/mailman/:adoptionweek.com
>
>
>I believe the problem is the colon at the begining of sub directory 
>name.  I cant seem to find where that is coming from.  Below are the 
>changes I made to exim to deal with the virt domains:
>
>in 01_exim4-config_listmacrosdefs:
>
>MM_HOME=/data/mailman/${lc::$domain}

Where does this come from? Normally it would just be something like

MM_HOME=/data/mailman/

and not include any reference to $domain. It is the path to but not
including the lists/ directory in the Mailman installation.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sean at adoptionmedia.com  Tue Jan  3 23:37:25 2006
From: sean at adoptionmedia.com (Sean Roe)
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 15:37:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domains problem
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601031425320281dd26a599@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200601031425320281dd26a599@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43BAFCA5.4010406@adoptionmedia.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Sean Roe wrote:
>   
>> 2006-01-03 09:42:52 1EtpFL-0003iz-RY == test_emag at adoptionweek.com 
>> R=mailman_router T=mailman_transport defer (2): No such file or 
>> directory: failed to chdir to /data/mailman/:adoptionweek.com
>>
>>
>> I believe the problem is the colon at the begining of sub directory 
>> name.  I cant seem to find where that is coming from.  Below are the 
>> changes I made to exim to deal with the virt domains:
>>
>> in 01_exim4-config_listmacrosdefs:
>>
>> MM_HOME=/data/mailman/${lc::$domain}
>>     
>
> Where does this come from? Normally it would just be something like
>
> MM_HOME=/data/mailman/
>
> and not include any reference to $domain. It is the path to but not
> including the lists/ directory in the Mailman installation.
>
>   
this is a virtual domain installation.  /data/mailman/{domain} refers 
different mailman installations:

/data/mailman/adoptionlists.com
/data/mailman/adoptionweek.com
ect.

Sean


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan  3 23:39:53 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 14:39:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domains problem
In-Reply-To: <43BAFCA5.4010406@adoptionmedia.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601031439530312dd26a5cd@msapiro>

Sean Roe wrote:

>this is a virtual domain installation.  /data/mailman/{domain} refers 
>different mailman installations:
>
>/data/mailman/adoptionlists.com
>/data/mailman/adoptionweek.com
>ect.


Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were using Mailman virtual
domains, not separate Mailman instances.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From neil at alia.org.au  Tue Jan  3 23:17:27 2006
From: neil at alia.org.au (Neil Muller)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 09:17:27 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] failure to exec script
Message-ID: <63538.203.28.120.238.1136326647.squirrel@webmail.alia.org.au>

We've just started having a problem with posts to our mailman lists. Posts
are being rejected with an error of "Command died with status 2:
    "/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post list-name-here". Command output:
Failure
    to exec script. WANTED gid 67, GOT gid 65533."

This started after a system reboot. The system is SUSE SLES9 with latest
patches installed. I have read the various posts in the mailman-users
archives and although there are many the talk about the same problem none
of the solutions suggested seems to resolve the problems we are having.

I have checked the SUSE sysconfig and updated it  to the correct gids for
cgi and mail. I have also checked /etc/mailman and updated the
mailman.mail-gid file to the correct mailman gid. /etc/group has mailman
as gid 67. I have also run check_perms -f which reported no errors. In the
end I downgraded the SUSE mailman rpm to the previous version (which was
working fine) but this reports the same error as the update version did. I
checked ownership and group for all the files in /usr/lib/mailman and
/var/lib/mailman and they appear to be correct with gid of mailman and uid
of root or mailman.

mailman was installed/updated via rpm and YAST online updates although
with the downgrade I manually updated /etc/sysconfig/mailman and ran then
SuSEconfig --modules mailman command separately. I checked/updated
/etc/mailman/mailman.mail-gid after SuSEconfig had done its thing.

The currently installed version of mailman is 2.1.4-83.7 (the version I
downgraded from was 2.1.4-83.18) and the OS is "2.6.5-7.244-smp #1 SMP Mon
Dec 12 18:32:25 UTC 2005 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux".

I'm not sure where to look next so any ideas or suggestions would be
appreciated.

Neil
email: neil at alia.org.au








From sean at adoptionmedia.com  Wed Jan  4 00:07:55 2006
From: sean at adoptionmedia.com (Sean Roe)
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 16:07:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domains problem
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601031439530312dd26a5cd@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200601031439530312dd26a5cd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43BB03CB.5050004@adoptionmedia.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Sean Roe wrote:
>
>   
>> this is a virtual domain installation.  /data/mailman/{domain} refers 
>> different mailman installations:
>>
>> /data/mailman/adoptionlists.com
>> /data/mailman/adoptionweek.com
>> ect.
>>     
>
>
> Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were using Mailman virtual
> domains, not separate Mailman instances.
>
>   
Unfortunately, I have to do it this way, with multiple instances, as one 
group of lists are using the mysql adapter and one group isn't.  Getting 
back to the original posting, do you know why I am picking up that colon 
on the beguining of the domainname?

Sean


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan  4 00:05:42 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 15:05:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] failure to exec script
In-Reply-To: <63538.203.28.120.238.1136326647.squirrel@webmail.alia.org.au>
Message-ID: <PC174020060103150542028146759d43@msapiro>

Neil Muller wrote:

>We've just started having a problem with posts to our mailman lists. Posts
>are being rejected with an error of "Command died with status 2:
>    "/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post list-name-here". Command output:
>Failure
>    to exec script. WANTED gid 67, GOT gid 65533."
>
>This started after a system reboot. The system is SUSE SLES9 with latest
>patches installed. I have read the various posts in the mailman-users
>archives and although there are many the talk about the same problem none
>of the solutions suggested seems to resolve the problems we are having.
>
>I have checked the SUSE sysconfig and updated it  to the correct gids for
>cgi and mail. I have also checked /etc/mailman and updated the
>mailman.mail-gid file to the correct mailman gid. /etc/group has mailman
>as gid 67.


The message says the wrapper expects to be invoked as gid 67 and is
being invoked as gid 65533. In SUSE, I think the expected 67 comes
from the mail-gid file. The 65533 is the gid used by your MTA to
invoke the wrapper. If your MTA is Postfix, this comes from the group
owner of the alaises file that contains the mailman aliases.

You can either change the mail-gid file to have gid 65533, or you can
change the MTA to use gid 67 when invoking the wrapper.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From elvisfern at gmail.com  Wed Jan  4 00:41:09 2006
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 15:41:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turn off receipt of duplicate emails
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50601031541s25bd73d0j753504c10d0f7816@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

Does the mailman administrator have a command to turn off duplicate emails
to a user?

I have a mail list (a.list) that includes a couple of sub list's (b.list,
c.list).
Some users are members of both these sub lists.

Currently, if I send out an email to a.list, then users who are common
members of b.list and c.list will receive the same email two times.
Right? I want to avoid that.

Is there an option in mailman (for either the sysadmin or the user).

The user level subsciption option "*Avoid duplicate copies of messages?"
does not do this task. *

Best,
Elvis Fernandes


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan  4 01:13:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 16:13:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domains problem
In-Reply-To: <43BB03CB.5050004@adoptionmedia.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060103161350071805b60580@msapiro>

Sean Roe wrote:

>Unfortunately, I have to do it this way, with multiple instances, as one 
>group of lists are using the mysql adapter and one group isn't.  


If you use the extend.py mechanism to specify the MysqlMemberships.py
MemberAdaptor rather than patching MailList.py, you can use
MysqlMemberships.py for only a subset of lists. It is not quite
automatic as you would have to manually copy an extend.py file to the
lists/listname/ directory following creation of a list that would use
MysqlMemberships.py, but it can be done.
 

>Getting 
>back to the original posting, do you know why I am picking up that colon 
>on the beguining of the domainname?


It is not clear to me from the prior posts in this thread exactly what
you've tried. You said in a prior post -

The changes I made were to exim's list_macrodefs:
from:
MM_LISTCHK=MM_HOME/lists/${lc::$local_part}/config.pck
to:
MM_LISTCHK=MM_HOME/lists/${lc:$local_part}/config.pck

and mailman_router:
from:
require_files = MM_LISTCHK
to:
require_files = <; MM_LISTCHK

but it is not clear if you also changed MM_HOME. There is possibly
confusion over whether or not a doubled colon is required in MM_HOME
for

MM_LISTCHK=MM_HOME/lists/${lc::$local_part}/config.pck

but the several other places where MM_HOME is used definitely do not
want the colon to be doubled.

Thus it seems to me you want

MM_HOME=/data/mailman/${lc:$domain}

and

MM_LISTCHK=MM_HOME/lists/${lc:$local_part}/config.pck

and to be sure you don't need doubled colons in MM_LISTCHK,

require_files = <; MM_LISTCHK


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan  4 01:29:29 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 16:29:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turn off receipt of duplicate emails
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc50601031541s25bd73d0j753504c10d0f7816@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601031629290921dd26a816@msapiro>

Elvis Fernandes wrote:
>
>I have a mail list (a.list) that includes a couple of sub list's (b.list,
>c.list).
>Some users are members of both these sub lists.
>
>Currently, if I send out an email to a.list, then users who are common
>members of b.list and c.list will receive the same email two times.
>Right? I want to avoid that.
>
>Is there an option in mailman (for either the sysadmin or the user).


No, but see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.005.htp>
for possible work arounds.


>The user level subsciption option "*Avoid duplicate copies of messages?"
>does not do this task. *

Right. This only controls whether or not you receive a post from the
list if your address is in To: or Cc:.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan  4 01:48:52 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 16:48:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman page won't display in browser (using
	VPN)
In-Reply-To: <43BACBAB.3080206@teslamotors.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601031648520906dd26a81e@msapiro>

Tristan Colson wrote:

>When I try to invoke our Mailman installation in a browser (Firefox, 
>although it doesn't work in IE either), via our corporate VPN 
>(Netscreen-Remote on Windows XP), instead of displaying the page in the 
>browser, it attempts to download a file.
> I see the message:
>-------------------------------------
>You have chosen to open
>
>which is a: application/x-httpd-php
>from: http://mailman.ourcompany.com
>
>What should Firefox do with this file?
>--------------------------------------
>(Note: the filename above is blank)
>
>Mailman works fine from directly within our network, it just doesn't 
>work when I am using the VPN. I imagine it has more to do with the VPN 
>than with Mailman, but so far Mailman is the only web application that 
>behaves in this fashion, so I am looking for clues as to what might be 
>causing this behaviour. Seems like some kind of weird MIME-type bug, but 
>I'm not sure what (other PHP applications behave fine within our VPN).
>
>Would appreciate any clues...

I don't know why this would happen with Mailman only, and it does seem
like a VPN issue or a VPN/web server integration issue.

All Mailman pages except for public archives are served by CGI scripts
(which may account for the lack of filename) and they all begin with a

Content-Type: text/html; charset=xxx

header where 'xxx' is the character set associated with the language of
the page. PHP should not be involved at all. Certainly, the
application/x-httpd-php content type does not come from Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From david at midrange.com  Wed Jan  4 02:09:28 2006
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 19:09:28 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman page won't display in browser (using
	VPN)
In-Reply-To: <43BACBAB.3080206@teslamotors.com>
References: <43BACBAB.3080206@teslamotors.com>
Message-ID: <dpf78c$8tp$1@sea.gmane.org>

Tristan Colson wrote:
> Mailman works fine from directly within our network, it just doesn't 
> work when I am using the VPN. 

Any chance there's a web proxy being used that is intercepting web
requests and doing some kind of filtering or translation?

david



From john at wa9als.com  Wed Jan  4 02:31:06 2006
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 20:31:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman page won't display in browser (usingVPN)
References: <PC1740200601031648520906dd26a81e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <005f01c610ce$8cceac60$6501a8c0@wa9als>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
To: "Tristan Colson" <tristan at teslamotors.com>; <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman page won't display in browser 
(usingVPN)


> Tristan Colson wrote:
>
>>When I try to invoke our Mailman installation in a browser (Firefox,
>>although it doesn't work in IE either), via our corporate VPN
>>(Netscreen-Remote on Windows XP), instead of displaying the page in the
>>browser, it attempts to download a file.
>> I see the message:
>>-------------------------------------
>>You have chosen to open
>>
>>which is a: application/x-httpd-php
>>from: http://mailman.ourcompany.com
>>
>>What should Firefox do with this file?
>>--------------------------------------
>>(Note: the filename above is blank)
>>
>>Mailman works fine from directly within our network, it just doesn't
>>work when I am using the VPN. I imagine it has more to do with the VPN
>>than with Mailman, but so far Mailman is the only web application that
>>behaves in this fashion, so I am looking for clues as to what might be
>>causing this behaviour. Seems like some kind of weird MIME-type bug, but
>>I'm not sure what (other PHP applications behave fine within our VPN).
>>
>>Would appreciate any clues...
>
> I don't know why this would happen with Mailman only, and it does seem
> like a VPN issue or a VPN/web server integration issue.

I've had similar experience from an improperly configured Apache httpd.conf 
when using SSL.  I have no idea how that relates to a VPN, but the result 
was similar, ie it wanted to download a file, so I agree its probably a 
VPN/webserver issue.  - John



From Irosenblum at nyc.rr.com  Wed Jan  4 03:01:34 2006
From: Irosenblum at nyc.rr.com (Ira Rosenblum)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 21:01:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail not being distributed
Message-ID: <1E1422BA-FB50-45CD-8D9A-ACA2D0746963@nyc.rr.com>

Messages that are being sent to my my group's mailing list (using  
Mailman 2.1.6) are not being sent to the list members, but they are  
showing up in the archive. They seem to be bouncing and causing  
members' bounce scores to go up. I don't know what is preventing the  
messages from going out. Can anyone please help?


From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Wed Jan  4 03:15:16 2006
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 21:15:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about ban_list...
Message-ID: <43BB2FB4.3000505@wingfoot.org>

Let's say I want no users on a mailing list from sitename.com. So, I
have a ban_list address of:

^.*@sitename\.com

Is this the correct form of RegExp? If not, could someone give me a pointer?

Thanks in advance!

Best,
--Glenn

-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary 
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." 
          ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan  4 03:39:27 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 18:39:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about ban_list...
In-Reply-To: <43BB2FB4.3000505@wingfoot.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601031839270187dd26a536@msapiro>

Glenn Sieb wrote:

>Let's say I want no users on a mailing list from sitename.com. So, I
>have a ban_list address of:
>
>^.*@sitename\.com
>
>Is this the correct form of RegExp?


Yes.

Note also that the ban_list applies to more things as of 2.1.7. From
NEWS:

    - The list's ban_list now applies to address changes, admin mass
      subscribes and invites, and to confirmations/approvals of address
      changes, subscriptions and invitations.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Wed Jan  4 03:45:37 2006
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 21:45:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about ban_list...
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601031839270187dd26a536@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200601031839270187dd26a536@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43BB36D1.5010507@wingfoot.org>

Mark Sapiro said the following on 1/3/2006 9:39 PM:
> Yes.
>
> Note also that the ban_list applies to more things as of 2.1.7. From
> NEWS:
>
>     - The list's ban_list now applies to address changes, admin mass
>       subscribes and invites, and to confirmations/approvals of address
>       changes, subscriptions and invitations.
>   

Ok--then I guess on my 2.1.5 server, the moderators must have added
people, without thinking, using the web interface--I'll have to upgrade
to 2.1.7 as soon as I see the ht://dig patches come out!

Thanks, Mark!
Best,
--Glenn

-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary 
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." 
          ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan  4 03:48:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 18:48:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Probe Problems
In-Reply-To: <20051226221321.GA12569@argentina.genwebserver.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601031848500843dd26a7dd@msapiro>

mailbag wrote:
>
>For some reason, users who have bounced mails back, end up getting the
>probe email later - and it includes attachments with all the other
>bounced probe emails, which includes other user's passwords to the list.
>
>I haven't been able to track down the cause, nor have I found references
>to anyone else having this problem.  Any suggestions would be
>appreciated.


This is related to the MTA's handling of bounces. Because of this
potential password leak, as of 2.1.7, probe messages no longer include
passwords.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Wed Jan  4 04:04:20 2006
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Tue, 03 Jan 2006 22:04:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about ban_list...
In-Reply-To: <43BB36D1.5010507@wingfoot.org>
References: <PC1740200601031839270187dd26a536@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BAYC1-PASMTP12CCAD0D99E6B43FBACBA2AE2F0@CEZ.ICE>

On 3 Jan 2006 at 21:45, Glenn Sieb wrote:

> Ok--then I guess on my 2.1.5 server, the moderators must have added
> people, without thinking, using the web interface--I'll have to upgrade
> to 2.1.7 as soon as I see the ht://dig patches come out!

I applied the ht://dig patches to 2.1.7 on my test box with no 
problems. IIRC there were just a few ofsets for a few hunks.

So it appears to apply cleanly.

-- 
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
I am a nobody, and nobody is perfect; therefore, I am perfect.




From munzirtaha at gmail.com  Wed Jan  4 04:57:15 2006
From: munzirtaha at gmail.com (Munzir Taha)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 06:57:15 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] stat=Service unavailable
Message-ID: <200601040657.20385.munzirtaha@gmail.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi sirs, or shall I say hi Mark? ;)

I have a miling list at lists.domain.ws and wanted to subscribe to it with an 
email of lists at domain.ws but the confirmation message didn't reach me. I 
checked the log files and can see

# grep lists at domain.ws /var/log/maillog
Jan  4 04:10:37 server2 sendmail[4248]: k041Abbp004246: to=<lists at domain.ws>, 
delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00,mailer=esmtp, pri=229720, 
relay=control.mynet.net. [63.175.195.228], dsn=5.0.0, stat=Service 
unavailable

where
;; ANSWER SECTION:
domain.ws.               1165    IN      MX      10 control.mynet.net.

# sendmail -bv list at domain.ws
list at domain.ws... deliverable: mailer esmtp, host domain.ws., user 
list at domain.ws

I can also send and receive to/from this  lists at domain.ws email properly. Any 
hint please?

- -- 
Munzir Taha
Telecommunications and Electronics Engineer
Maintainer of Fedora Arabic Translation Project
https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-ar
Maintainer of the OpenBugs project page at
http://www.arabic-fedora.org/munzir/OpenBugs.html
Master CIW Designer, ICDL, MOUS, Linux+, LPI 101
Riyadh, SA
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFDu0egOBlicvBnGCERAl9mAJ0Tfqubky8qdrwHf+7KrmXuPvJFEwCgoUYp
VKlcTzS4x3rPrdo54qtIO+4=
=ElOZ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan  4 05:56:24 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 20:56:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] merge archives
In-Reply-To: <6e8101c60b2e$94516040$6401a8c0@sarna>
Message-ID: <PC17402006010320562408901a789a72@msapiro>

Manuel Kissoyan wrote:
>
>We saved one of the accounts archives and then deleted and re-created the 
>mailing list, were running for a week, now we need merge the saved archives 
>with the existing one after the list re-creation. If were another month is 
>easy but how you merge same month archives?


If you saved the old archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file,
just concatenate the old and new files to make a
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox that contains all the
messages, and then rebuild the archives with

bin/arch --wipe listname

If you didn't save the old archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox
file, you can make an approximate reconstruction by editing the old
archives/private/listname/yyyy-mmmmm.txt file to unobscure the email
addresses.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan  4 05:59:39 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 20:59:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange problem...
In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.0.20051228221202.01ec2a80@ptg1.spd.analog.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601032059390203d0444632@msapiro>

Robin Getz wrote:

>I am running into a bit of a problem - mail seems to be coming into, and 
>being accepted by mailman, and it stacks up in ./qfiles/in/[key].pck files, 
>and nothing every seems to be sent out.
>
>Any ideas?
>
>Thanks
>-Robin
>
>Running SuSe 9.3 if that makes a difference, all the mailman scripts seem 
>to be running...

What exactly is running? In particular, is IncomingRunner running? See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan  4 06:03:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 21:03:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie -  Help
In-Reply-To: <20051228151234.ngyzcok4oglc0gg4@webmail.tomsfish.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402006010321035602509a1ea6f2@msapiro>

Tom at tomsfish.net wrote:
>
>My inslation came preinstalled on a server from 1 and 1 using redhat and apache
>but NOT python...they have it worked around they claim....anyway...


Perhaps they're shipping Mailman as a frozen binary, but what does that
do for configuring via mm_cfg.py?


>I can set up lists...go thru all the steps but users cannot subscribe...it says
>they have but it never sends out the confirmation email and it doesnt show them
>as subscribed users. I have scoured the options and i cant find anythign not set
>properly, but newbies can be dummies...so ideas are welcome.


Is Mailman running (bin/mailmanctl start - or however you start the
qrunners on this system)?

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From avatar819 at twcny.rr.com  Wed Jan  4 06:04:20 2006
From: avatar819 at twcny.rr.com (Eric)
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 00:04:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can I use my ISP's SMTP server?
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060104000344.01e9ba78@twcny.rr.com>

Hello all, I've recently upgraded to mailman-2.1.6 from an older version.
I currently host lists via a dynamic IP address, and because of reverse
DNS lookup, many IPS's will not accept mail from my server because
it is a dynamic IP. Is there any way to configure mailman to use my
ISP's mail server instead of my own sendmail smtp MTA?
Thanks!
Eric



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan  4 06:07:38 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 21:07:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help sending to multiple lists
In-Reply-To: <003001c60d51$461dd4b0$6501a8c0@HPNC6000>
Message-ID: <PC174020060103210738026575ace34f@msapiro>

Andy Bardwell wrote:

>I am working with a community radio station which has multiple lists in
>Mailman that are used to contact volunteers.  A volunteer can be on
>several of the lists.  We frequently want to send to all volunteers.  Is
>there a way to send to all the lists, with out duplicates?  One way this
>could happen would be to merge all the lists, eliminate duplicates, and
>send to the resulting list.  Is there a script that will do this or some
>other way of accomplishing sending an email to multiple lists without
>duplicates?  Any suggestions welcome.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.005.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan  4 06:14:05 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 21:14:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] falling back to login screen (repeat)
In-Reply-To: <20060101095542.15461.qmail@web30315.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601032114050828714d6281@msapiro>

M. Onur ERGiN wrote:

>nah, nothing works. I've checked all off the binaries in bin's and sbin's. Also tryed the cookie modules of the web server and verified that they work. 
>
>From this point, would you have some recommendations? should I reinstall mailman? or should I start with trying reinstalling web server?

In a recent thread
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-November/047677.html>
this problem was caused a personal firewall on the affected computer.
In your case, perhaps some more global, network firewall or proxy is
involved.

Also, I know you said you saw FAQ 4.45, but since there were httpd
changes, I would look at these very carefully to see if some redirect
or other httpd change may be losing post data or cookies.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Jan  4 06:11:21 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 23:11:21 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domains problem
In-Reply-To: <43BAF631.2060809@adoptionmedia.com>
References: <BFDFFCF0.A325%jwblist@loricamail.com>
	<43BAF631.2060809@adoptionmedia.com>
Message-ID: <p062007a0bfe1095200ab@[192.168.1.100]>

At 3:09 PM -0700 2006-01-03, Sean Roe wrote:

>  Is there anything else I need to do to make this work?  I didn't see any
>  other reference to MM_LISTCHK

	This is really an Exim problem, and I suspect that you're more 
likely to get useful assistance by going to their documentation, 
reading their FAQs, posting to their mailing lists, etc....

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan  4 06:28:38 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 21:28:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can I use my ISP's SMTP server?
In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.0.20060104000344.01e9ba78@twcny.rr.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601032128380734aa48e3e4@msapiro>

   From: Eric <avatar819 at twcny.rr.com>
   Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 00:04:20 -0500
     To: mailman-users at python.org

>Hello all, I've recently upgraded to mailman-2.1.6 from an older version.
>I currently host lists via a dynamic IP address, and because of reverse
>DNS lookup, many IPS's will not accept mail from my server because
>it is a dynamic IP. Is there any way to configure mailman to use my
>ISP's mail server instead of my own sendmail smtp MTA?

Yes. You can set SMTPHOST and SMTPPORT in mm_cfg.py to point to your
ISP's server, but you will probably encounter other problems.

You may now or shortly or eventually run up against limits on outgoing
messages.

You may also have to validate yourself to the server. See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-October/047082.html>
for more on this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dylan.limwc at gmail.com  Wed Jan  4 06:50:40 2006
From: dylan.limwc at gmail.com (dylan lim)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 13:50:40 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] permission denied error on sending mails to mailing
	list
Message-ID: <d3275f430601032150i221d26d4l3246af7ece128f38@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I have set up Postfix+Mailman+htdig on a box and upon sending mails to the
mailing list I have encountered an error of

fatal: execvp /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman: Permission denied

in my maillog. On my email client, I received a notification that
/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post has failed with an error of 1. Can
anyone point me in the right direction? Thank you.


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan  4 06:57:57 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 21:57:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail not being distributed
In-Reply-To: <1E1422BA-FB50-45CD-8D9A-ACA2D0746963@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006010321575705939e0aae4a@msapiro>

Ira Rosenblum wrote:

>Messages that are being sent to my my group's mailing list (using  
>Mailman 2.1.6) are not being sent to the list members, but they are  
>showing up in the archive. They seem to be bouncing and causing  
>members' bounce scores to go up. I don't know what is preventing the  
>messages from going out. Can anyone please help?

Have you checked Mailman's 'smtp' and 'smtp-failure' logs? Also, the
'error' log?

When the members start getting disabled, if you have the owner
notification on, you'll get some detail in the disabled notification.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan  4 07:05:39 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 22:05:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] permission denied error on sending mails to
	mailinglist
In-Reply-To: <d3275f430601032150i221d26d4l3246af7ece128f38@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006010322053903289e0aad2f@msapiro>

dylan lim wrote:
>
>I have set up Postfix+Mailman+htdig on a box and upon sending mails to the
>mailing list I have encountered an error of
>
>fatal: execvp /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman: Permission denied
>
>in my maillog. On my email client, I received a notification that
>/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post has failed with an error of 1. Can
>anyone point me in the right direction? Thank you.

Postfix is unable to pipe mail to the wrapper
(/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman) because it doesn't have permission
to execute it. Permissions should be 2755 and group 'mailman' on all
wrappers.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dylan.limwc at gmail.com  Wed Jan  4 07:13:23 2006
From: dylan.limwc at gmail.com (dylan lim)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 14:13:23 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] permission denied error on sending mails to
	mailinglist
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006010322053903289e0aad2f@msapiro>
References: <d3275f430601032150i221d26d4l3246af7ece128f38@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006010322053903289e0aad2f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <d3275f430601032213o61391b06g208a58b76a343d1b@mail.gmail.com>

This is what I have done:

I cd into my /usr/local/mailman directory.
Did a

chown mailman.mailman scripts
chown mailman.mailman /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
chmod 2755 scripts
chmod 2755 /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman

But I still got the same error.

On 1/4/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> dylan lim wrote:
> >
> >I have set up Postfix+Mailman+htdig on a box and upon sending mails to
> the
> >mailing list I have encountered an error of
> >
> >fatal: execvp /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman: Permission denied
> >
> >in my maillog. On my email client, I received a notification that
> >/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post has failed with an error of 1. Can
> >anyone point me in the right direction? Thank you.
>
> Postfix is unable to pipe mail to the wrapper
> (/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman) because it doesn't have permission
> to execute it. Permissions should be 2755 and group 'mailman' on all
> wrappers.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan  4 07:45:24 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 22:45:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] permission denied error on sending mails to
	mailinglist
In-Reply-To: <d3275f430601032213o61391b06g208a58b76a343d1b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601032245240890fe47cab2@msapiro>

dylan lim wrote:
>
>This is what I have done:
>
>I cd into my /usr/local/mailman directory.
>Did a
>
>chown mailman.mailman scripts
>chown mailman.mailman /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
>chmod 2755 scripts


Actually, the scripts directory should be 2775. The wrappers that
should be 2755 are /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman and
/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/*, but the cgi-bin/* wrappers are probably
OK if the web interface works.


>chmod 2755 /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
>
>But I still got the same error.


At this point, run

bin/check_perms -f

as root until you get no errors. That should fix most permissions. Then
if Postfix still can't execute the /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
wrapper for no permission (with status 1), and you can't figure out
why, you might try asking on a Postfix group or list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan  4 07:54:03 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 22:54:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Backing up your mailing list
In-Reply-To: <BAY114-F11B99BC0F8BDC4E1025E29EA2C0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601032254030921fe47cabc@msapiro>

Hujjah 313 wrote:
>
>Is there a feature on mailman whereby we can backup our mailing list on hard 
>disk?
>
>Its quite necessary to have a hard copy of your list when dealing with 
>10,000+ emails where people constantly want to subscribe and unsubscribe.


I'm not sure I understand what you want. The list configuration,
membership and member options are all saved in
lists/listname/config.pck. You can make periodic copies of that file
as a backup in case of failure. You can also use bin/list_members to
make a copy of the membership list in a plain text file.

If your list is hosted elsewhere, and you don't have access to these
tools/files, you can use the email 'who' command to get a (possibly
incomplete) member list, or you can script the web interface as
suggested at
<http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#throughtheweb>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan  4 08:06:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 23:06:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Output from "cron" command
In-Reply-To: <UTK-CLSwSA1XvpFVjCR0000005f@utk-cls.UTKCLS>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601032306100343fe47c881@msapiro>

mcnutt wrote:

>My Mailman installation appears to be working okay, but I'm getting this
>message once per day.
>
<snip>
>
>Your "cron" job on cls
>/usr/local/bin/python -S /usr/local/mailman/cron/checkdbs
>
>produced the following output:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 203, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 104, in main
>    discarded = auto_discard(mlist)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 192, in auto_discard
>    heldmsgs = mlist.GetHeldMessageIds()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 143, in
>GetHeldMessageIds
>    return self.__getmsgids(HELDMSG)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 138, in __getmsgids
>    ids = [k for k, (op, data) in self.__db.items() if op == rtype]
>ValueError: too many values to unpack


It looks like some lists/listname/request.pck (or request.db for pre
2.1.5) file may be corrupted. Also, see
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-August/046235.html>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan  4 08:43:32 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2006 23:43:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] It's not possible to add new members
In-Reply-To: <43BA516F.4030106@dfki.de>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601032343320531fe47c953@msapiro>

Alexander Baldauf wrote:
>
>last weekend, we updated mailman to version 2.1.5, but after the update, 
>it's not possible to add new members to any list. There ist just a error 
>message like this:
>
>
>    Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5
>
>
>      We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
>If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy 
>of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what 
>happened. Thanks!
>
>
>        Traceback:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
>    main()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 175, in main
>    change_options(mlist, category, subcat, cgidata, doc)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 1339, in change_options
>    whence='admin mass sub')
>TypeError: ApprovedAddMember() got an unexpected keyword argument 'whence'
>
<snip>
>
>We searched in the admin.py but we didn't find the error.


I suspect this is some issue with the particular SuSE Mailman package
and patch level you installed. In the base source distribution of
Mailman 2.1.5, the

            change_options(mlist, category, subcat, cgidata, doc)

is at line 175, but

                mlist.ApprovedAddMember(userdesc, send_welcome_msg,
                                        send_admin_notif, invitation,
                                        whence='admin mass sub')

is at lines 1335-1337, not 1337-1339 (note I removed a level of
indentation in hopes the above wouldn't wrap).

The real question is what do you have for the definition of
ApprovedAddMember in Mailman/MailList.py? The base has at lines 897-898

    def ApprovedAddMember(self, userdesc, ack=None, admin_notif=None,
text='',
                          whence=''):

The whence= argument got added between 2.1.3 and 2.1.4 which seems to
say that your Mailman/MailList.py is older than 2.1.4.

Either this is some SuSE problem or you have residue of your old
version, some of which is being used.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From simon.alexandre at cetic.be  Wed Jan  4 10:45:37 2006
From: simon.alexandre at cetic.be (Simon ALEXANDRE)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 10:45:37 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug encountered after archive private/public option
	change
Message-ID: <20060104094422.6DA114EC29@ceticsun.cetic.be>


Hi,

Sorry for bugging you with this problem again but my sys admin is ill for
two weeks and our mailman server used for an important project is down since
I tried to change in the archive menu the option of archive visibility from
public to private.

I have the following message on the web interface: " Bug in Mailman version
2.1.5 we're sorry, we hit a bug! " 

And in the error log file:

Jan 04 10:05:21 2006 admin(14840):
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 
admin(14840): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.5 -----] 
admin(14840): [----- Traceback ------] 
admin(14840): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(14840):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 110, in
run_main
admin(14840):     main()
admin(14840):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 200, in
main
admin(14840):     mlist.Save()
admin(14840):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 529, in
Save
admin(14840):     self.CheckHTMLArchiveDir()
admin(14840):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line
235, in CheckHTMLArchiveDir
admin(14840):     breaklink(pubdir)
admin(14840):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line
55, in breaklink
admin(14840):     os.unlink(link)
admin(14840): OSError: [Errno 21] Is a directory:
'/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/members'

How may I fix this problem to be able to log in & manage again this list?

Thanks ins advance

Simon




From dylan.limwc at gmail.com  Wed Jan  4 11:21:59 2006
From: dylan.limwc at gmail.com (dylan lim)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 18:21:59 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] permission denied error on sending mails to
	mailinglist
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601032245240890fe47cab2@msapiro>
References: <d3275f430601032213o61391b06g208a58b76a343d1b@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200601032245240890fe47cab2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <d3275f430601040221y63416788j34bd4ae6c539ee9@mail.gmail.com>

Mayb this will make it clearer. Postfix is installed using yum install
postfix.
While mailman is compiled from source with the following options:

./configure --with-mail-gid=postfix --with-cgi-gid=apache

However, I keep encountering errors where postfix is unable to execute the
wrapper for /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman

The errors on my maillog are here:

fatal: execvp /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman : Permission denied

Can anyone point me in the right direction? Posting to postfix doesnt seem
to yield any remedies. Thanks


On 1/4/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> dylan lim wrote:
> >
> >This is what I have done:
> >
> >I cd into my /usr/local/mailman directory.
> >Did a
> >
> >chown mailman.mailman scripts
> >chown mailman.mailman /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
> >chmod 2755 scripts
>
>
> Actually, the scripts directory should be 2775. The wrappers that
> should be 2755 are /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman and
> /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/*, but the cgi-bin/* wrappers are probably
> OK if the web interface works.
>
>
> >chmod 2755 /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
> >
> >But I still got the same error.
>
>
> At this point, run
>
> bin/check_perms -f
>
> as root until you get no errors. That should fix most permissions. Then
> if Postfix still can't execute the /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
> wrapper for no permission (with status 1), and you can't figure out
> why, you might try asking on a Postfix group or list.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From simon.alexandre at cetic.be  Wed Jan  4 11:38:59 2006
From: simon.alexandre at cetic.be (Simon ALEXANDRE)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:38:59 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FIX - RE: Bug encountered after archive
	private/public optionchange
In-Reply-To: <20060104094422.6DA114EC29@ceticsun.cetic.be>
Message-ID: <20060104103744.CDD6E4EC29@ceticsun.cetic.be>

Hi again

I found the problem and a workaround:

Problem: in /archive/public normally I should only found symb link to
directories located in /private. But on our system (and I don't know why)
there was no symb link but directories with archives files. 

Fix: I deleted the directory of the list in /public and replaced it by a
correct symb link pointing to ../private/myList (containing all archives
files)

And it works again

S.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+simon.alexandre=cetic.be at python.org
> [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+simon.alexandre=cetic.be at python.org] On
Behalf Of
> Simon ALEXANDRE
> Sent: mercredi 4 janvier 2006 10:46
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug encountered after archive private/public
optionchange
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Sorry for bugging you with this problem again but my sys admin is ill for
> two weeks and our mailman server used for an important project is down
since
> I tried to change in the archive menu the option of archive visibility
from
> public to private.
> 
> I have the following message on the web interface: " Bug in Mailman
version
> 2.1.5 we're sorry, we hit a bug! "
> 
> And in the error log file:
> 
> Jan 04 10:05:21 2006 admin(14840):
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> @
> admin(14840): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.5 -----]
> admin(14840): [----- Traceback ------]
> admin(14840): Traceback (most recent call last):
> admin(14840):   File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 110, in
> run_main
> admin(14840):     main()
> admin(14840):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 200, in
> main
> admin(14840):     mlist.Save()
> admin(14840):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 529, in
> Save
> admin(14840):     self.CheckHTMLArchiveDir()
> admin(14840):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line
> 235, in CheckHTMLArchiveDir
> admin(14840):     breaklink(pubdir)
> admin(14840):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line
> 55, in breaklink
> admin(14840):     os.unlink(link)
> admin(14840): OSError: [Errno 21] Is a directory:
> '/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/members'
> 
> How may I fix this problem to be able to log in & manage again this list?
> 
> Thanks ins advance
> 
> Simon
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-
> users/simon.alexandre%40cetic.be
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-
> mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From william at rtrc.net  Wed Jan  4 12:05:45 2006
From: william at rtrc.net (William F. Hill, Jr.)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 06:05:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting my mailing list
In-Reply-To: <20060104103744.CDD6E4EC29@ceticsun.cetic.be>
Message-ID: <20060104110533.D43D31E4018@bag.python.org>

Okay...

I have asked this question in the past and still cannot find a simple,
layman's way of getting my membership list downloaded.   Some of you have
been very kind and told me some ways using "cron jobs" and stuff like that
but to be honest that is over my head unless you tell me point by point the
exact things to do.  My goal is to get my list downloaded and then create a
NEW list on another server but I do not want to manually type all the email
addresses again (though there are only 62 addresses).  

Also, why doesn't mailman have this feature built in?  It seems that this
would be a normal thing to want to do from time to time for backup purposes.
Other than that I think the program is wonderful.

Thanks for your help... 

Coram Deo,

William F. Hill, Jr.
Member, Calvary Reformed Presbyterian Church, PCA
Hampton, VA. USA
http://www.rtrc.net
http://www.theparchment.org 


The Parchment 






From bob at cousy.net  Wed Jan  4 12:37:18 2006
From: bob at cousy.net (Bob Tourkow)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:37:18 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two questions
Message-ID: <00b901c61123$3b7e2c50$0300000a@bobacer>

Hello everyone,

 

My organization makes extensive use of multiple Mailman lists, and I am
involved in the administration of a couple ?easy? lists.  But there are two
things I would like to do that I can?t seem to find out how to do.  Maybe
one of you can tell me what to do.

 

1.  (Seemingly simple question)  How can I print out a complete list of the
names and email addresses of all members of the list?

 

2. I have a list that was once used for a one-time mailing, and I now need
to remove all of the subscribers from it, without them receiving
un-subscribed messages.  Unfortunately, I don?t have the original list I
mass-subscribed (which I know if I had, I could simply do a
mass-unsubscribe).  Is there an easy way to do this?

 

Thanks, in advance for your help (assuming someone has the answers.

 

            Bob Tourkow


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.12/220 - Release Date: 1/3/2006
 


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Jan  4 14:03:19 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 07:03:19 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting my mailing list
In-Reply-To: <20060104110533.D43D31E4018@bag.python.org>
References: <20060104110533.D43D31E4018@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <p062007a4bfe17737c27f@[192.168.1.100]>

At 6:05 AM -0500 2006-01-04, William F. Hill, Jr. wrote:

>                                                          Some of you have
>  been very kind and told me some ways using "cron jobs" and stuff like that
>  but to be honest that is over my head unless you tell me point by point the
>  exact things to do.  My goal is to get my list downloaded and then create a
>  NEW list on another server but I do not want to manually type all the email
>  addresses again (though there are only 62 addresses).

	The e-mail interface is probably the simplest method, but the 
problem is that some (or all) of the addresses may be hidden from you 
via this method.  The other methods are going to be more complete, 
but as you point out they are also more complex.

	You may want to go ahead and try the e-mail method and see what 
that gives you, as compared to what you can see via the web interface.

>  Also, why doesn't mailman have this feature built in?  It seems that this
>  would be a normal thing to want to do from time to time for backup purposes.

	It's kind of like asking why a pen doesn't work like a pencil. 
It just wasn't designed that way.  It was designed to do other things 
that a pencil can't do.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From thomas at elements.dk  Wed Jan  4 14:18:40 2006
From: thomas at elements.dk (Thomas von Hassel)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 14:18:40 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two questions
In-Reply-To: <00b901c61123$3b7e2c50$0300000a@bobacer>
References: <00b901c61123$3b7e2c50$0300000a@bobacer>
Message-ID: <90311F5C-E4A9-406D-BD73-B6AEB54CA4B5@elements.dk>


On Jan 4, 2006, at 12:37, Bob Tourkow wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
>
>
> My organization makes extensive use of multiple Mailman lists, and  
> I am
> involved in the administration of a couple ?easy? lists.  But there  
> are two
> things I would like to do that I can?t seem to find out how to do.   
> Maybe
> one of you can tell me what to do.
>
>
>
> 1.  (Seemingly simple question)  How can I print out a complete  
> list of the
> names and email addresses of all members of the list?
>
>

in your mailman/bin directory type:

./list_members --fullnames listname

>
> 2. I have a list that was once used for a one-time mailing, and I  
> now need
> to remove all of the subscribers from it, without them receiving
> un-subscribed messages.


in your mailman/bin directory type:

./remove_members --all --nouserack listname


/thomas






From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Jan  4 15:20:01 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 23:20:01 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting my mailing list
In-Reply-To: <20060104110533.D43D31E4018@bag.python.org> (William F. Hill,
	Jr.'s message of "Wed, 4 Jan 2006 06:05:45 -0500")
References: <20060104110533.D43D31E4018@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <87lkxwjcry.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "William" == William F Hill, <william at rtrc.net> writes:

    William> I have asked this question in the past and still cannot
    William> find a simple, layman's way of getting my membership list
    William> downloaded.

One way: Go to the list information page using your web browser.  It
usually has a URL like

http://SERVER.DOM/lists/listinfo/LIST

or

http://SERVER.DOM/mailman/lists/listinfo/LIST

where SERVER.DOM is the name of the server and list is the name of
your list.  (My listserver is heavily customized, so it probably is
not anything like yours; maybe somebody else can fill you in on the
usual setup.)  Somewhere on that page there should be a box to log in
as the administrator, next to a button that says "Visit Subscriber
List".  The necessary address is probably printed at the bottom of the
page where it says "XXX list run by YYY at ZZZZ.COM".  Don't use the
word "at", use the at-sign to get the admin address "YYY at ZZZZ.COM".
The password should the one you use to manage your list.

The page you get will have the member roster you want.  (However, if
you have well-informed users, some may have turned off display of
their addresses.  For those users you will have to go to the
membership management page.  This page should have almost everybody,
though.)  You can copy and paste the list from there into another
browser window with the membership management page for the new
list/new server.  You may need to enter carriage returns by hand so
that there is one address per line.  The rest you pick up by hand from
the membership management page.

Another way: save the membership management pages to files, and edit
them into the format that "mass subscribe" expects.  Depending on your
skill with the editor and the features of your editor this may be
prohibitively tedious, or surprisingly easy.

    William> Also, why doesn't mailman have this feature built in?  It
    William> seems that this would be a normal thing to want to do
    William> from time to time for backup purposes.

Mailman was written by and for people who run mailing list servers.
They have direct access to the files, so no problem in getting those
lists.

It was quite unexpected that Mailman would be so successful in
simplifying administrative tasks that mass-market Internet providers
would be using it to allow just about anybody to run their own lists.
That history, combined with the fact that most list administrators
either do have access or don't need a copy of the list, has meant that
a straightforward way to do this task hasn't been implemented yet.

As for backup, in most cases the server host provides regular on-line
and offsite back up; a backup by the list admin should not be
necessary.


-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From manuel at arteryplanet.net  Wed Jan  4 15:32:29 2006
From: manuel at arteryplanet.net (ArteryPlanet.Net :: Manuel Kissoyan)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:32:29 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] merge archives
References: <PC17402006010320562408901a789a72@msapiro>
Message-ID: <0d8e01c6113b$b1ef9910$6401a8c0@sarna>

Thank you Mark!



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
To: <manuel at arteryplanet.net>
Cc: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 1:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] merge archives


> Manuel Kissoyan wrote:
>>
>>We saved one of the accounts archives and then deleted and re-created the
>>mailing list, were running for a week, now we need merge the saved 
>>archives
>>with the existing one after the list re-creation. If were another month is
>>easy but how you merge same month archives?
>
>
> If you saved the old archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file,
> just concatenate the old and new files to make a
> archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox that contains all the
> messages, and then rebuild the archives with
>
> bin/arch --wipe listname
>
> If you didn't save the old archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox
> file, you can make an approximate reconstruction by editing the old
> archives/private/listname/yyyy-mmmmm.txt file to unobscure the email
> addresses.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
>
> 




From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Wed Jan  4 16:00:47 2006
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 10:00:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about ban_list...
In-Reply-To: <BAYC1-PASMTP12CCAD0D99E6B43FBACBA2AE2F0@CEZ.ICE>
References: <PC1740200601031839270187dd26a536@msapiro>
	<BAYC1-PASMTP12CCAD0D99E6B43FBACBA2AE2F0@CEZ.ICE>
Message-ID: <43BBE31F.2030504@wingfoot.org>

Bryan Carbonnell wrote:

>I applied the ht://dig patches to 2.1.7 on my test box with no 
>problems. IIRC there were just a few ofsets for a few hunks.
>
>So it appears to apply cleanly.
>
>  
>
Agreed... the upgrade seemed to go very smoothly last night.

Best,
--Glenn


From thomaswaters at mac.com  Wed Jan  4 18:33:17 2006
From: thomaswaters at mac.com (Thomas Waters)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 12:33:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman or postfix problem?
Message-ID: <584C4D89-CCD3-4B9C-A815-0EBCDCC57DB3@mac.com>

<rxtesttuesday at pharmacy.pitt.edu>: Command died with status 2:
     "/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman post rxtesttuesday". Command  
output: Group
     mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be  
executed as
     group "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail  
script as
     group "tcwaters".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the  
script as group
     "mailman", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option
     `--with-mail-gid=tcwaters'.


I ask if this is mailman or postfix because I was trying to move the  
mail lists to a new server, so I have "handled" the mailman files,  
but never touched the Postfix files.  Is this a file permissions issue?



Thx
--
Thomas Waters
Director of Information and Communication Services
University of Pittsburgh School of Pharmacy
412-383-7471
waterstc at pitt.edu
http://www.pharmacy.pitt.edu




From cpz at tuunq.com  Wed Jan  4 18:39:17 2006
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 09:39:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman or postfix problem?
In-Reply-To: <584C4D89-CCD3-4B9C-A815-0EBCDCC57DB3@mac.com> from Thomas Waters
	at "Jan 4, 2006 12:33:17 pm"
Message-ID: <20060104173918.328EF7AF@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Thomas Waters wrote:
> <rxtesttuesday at pharmacy.pitt.edu>: Command died with status 2:
>      "/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman post rxtesttuesday". Command  
> output: Group
>      mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be  
> executed as
>      group "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail  
> script as
>      group "tcwaters".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the  
> script as group
>      "mailman", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option
>      `--with-mail-gid=tcwaters'.
> 
> 
> I ask if this is mailman or postfix because I was trying to move the  
> mail lists to a new server, so I have "handled" the mailman files,  
> but never touched the Postfix files.  Is this a file permissions issue?

Yes :-).  Since groups are specified with a name which is them mapped to
a number, is that number the same?  I've seen new versions of an OS come
with different /etc/group files.  I assume that tcwaters is not the group
that you expected to be there.  (See the FAQ also, you'll probably need to
either change the group tcwaters to be called mailman and reset all the
file groups or rebuild mailman on that new system.)

z!


From jdennis at redhat.com  Wed Jan  4 18:40:08 2006
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 12:40:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman or postfix problem?
In-Reply-To: <584C4D89-CCD3-4B9C-A815-0EBCDCC57DB3@mac.com>
References: <584C4D89-CCD3-4B9C-A815-0EBCDCC57DB3@mac.com>
Message-ID: <43BC0878.1060507@redhat.com>

Thomas Waters wrote:

><rxtesttuesday at pharmacy.pitt.edu>: Command died with status 2:
>     "/usr/share/mailman/mail/mailman post rxtesttuesday". Command  
>output: Group
>     mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be  
>executed as
>     group "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail  
>script as
>     group "tcwaters".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the  
>script as group
>     "mailman", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option
>     `--with-mail-gid=tcwaters'.
>
>
>I ask if this is mailman or postfix because I was trying to move the  
>mail lists to a new server, so I have "handled" the mailman files,  
>but never touched the Postfix files.  Is this a file permissions issue?
>
>  
>
You probably touched the mailman aliases file leaving it with your 
username as the owner. Postfix will execute commands found in an alias 
file with the userid of the user who owns the alias file. This is a 
configurable option in postfix, its usually on by default because in 
most circumstances it is what you want. When you add a new list and 
mailman updates the alias file it will write the file with the owner as 
mailman.


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan  4 18:46:19 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 09:46:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] permission denied error on sending mails to
	mailinglist
In-Reply-To: <d3275f430601040221y63416788j34bd4ae6c539ee9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601040946190843f211717e@msapiro>

dylan lim wrote:
>
>Mayb this will make it clearer. Postfix is installed using yum install
>postfix.
>While mailman is compiled from source with the following options:
>
>./configure --with-mail-gid=postfix --with-cgi-gid=apache


The --with-mail-gid=postfix doesn't come into play yet, because you
aren't getting that far. This causes the
/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman wrapper to check that it was invoked
from the postfix group to prevent just anyone from running it. In your
case it isn't being executed because the OS is saying postfix doesn't
have permission to run it.


>However, I keep encountering errors where postfix is unable to execute the
>wrapper for /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
>
>The errors on my maillog are here:
>
>fatal: execvp /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman : Permission denied
>
>Can anyone point me in the right direction? Posting to postfix doesnt seem
>to yield any remedies. Thanks


What happens if you log in as the postfix user/group (or su to the
postfix user/group) and try to run the wrapper?

/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman

should produce

Usage: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman program [args...]

or something similar? If you get permission denied, you have to solve
that. If you don't, you have to figure out what is different between
your doing it and Postfix's doing it.


BTW, I believe that Postfix will try to execute the wrapper as the
user/group that owns the aliases.db file that contains the mailman
aliases. This may not be consistent with your --with-mail-gid=postfix
configure option.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan  4 19:06:24 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 10:06:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting my mailing list
In-Reply-To: <20060104110533.D43D31E4018@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006010410062404849b94545c@msapiro>

William F. Hill, Jr. wrote:
>
>I have asked this question in the past and still cannot find a simple,
>layman's way of getting my membership list downloaded.   Some of you have
>been very kind and told me some ways using "cron jobs" and stuff like that
>but to be honest that is over my head unless you tell me point by point the
>exact things to do.  My goal is to get my list downloaded and then create a
>NEW list on another server but I do not want to manually type all the email
>addresses again (though there are only 62 addresses).  


Your posts in December lead me to assume that your Mailman installation
is hosted by a provider and you only have access to it via email and
the web. If this is the case, here are your choices:

- Use the email 'who' command. Send blank email with subject 'help'
(without the quotes) to the listname-request at example.com address for
more info.

- Visit the roster via the listinfo page or directly at something like
<http://www.example.com/mailman/roster/listname> and copy/paste/edit
the result.

The above two methods have the drawback that 'hidden' members (those
who have opted to be excluded from those lists) are not shown.

- Visit the admin Membership Management...->Membership List pages one
by one and copy/paste/edit the results.

- Script the above process to automate it. See
<http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#throughtheweb> for an
example.


>Also, why doesn't mailman have this feature built in?  It seems that this
>would be a normal thing to want to do from time to time for backup purposes.


It does, but it is only available through the command-line tool
bin/list_members to which you apparently don't have access. Such a
feature may be added to the web and/or email interface in the future
as there appears to be a need for it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From berk0081 at umn.edu  Wed Jan  4 18:56:18 2006
From: berk0081 at umn.edu (Michael Berkowski)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 11:56:18 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spamassassin/Mailman - filter messages to
	list-owners
Message-ID: <005201c61158$2a49c630$900f5ea0@minitex.umn.edu>

Greetings All, 

I have just joined this list and I hope that I am not cluttering it up with
an easy or common question.  I have spent quite a bit of time searching
Google, the list archive, and FAQ without success for the answer.

I work for a library organization which runs ~100 different lists for
various library and reference resources.  These lists are moderated by a few
dozen individuals.  I have recently implemented SpamAssassin with Mailman on
our server, using the spamd.py and spamassassin.py handlers described here:
http://www.jamesh.id.au/articles/mailman-spamassassin/
The spamd/spamassassin handlers are called with GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(1,
'SpamAssassin') in mm_cfg.py.

This method has far exceeded our expectations for reducing the amount of
spam held for moderation, but it does not seem to have any effect on spam
messages sent to the *-owner@ or *-request@ addresses.  It would appear that
all messages to those addresses pass straight through without being scanned
by the handlers, leaving phishing scams in our moderators' inboxes by the
hundreds.  I never see anything related to these in the mailman logs.

We have configured /etc/postfix/aliases for each list as:
## test mailing list
test:              "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test"
test-admin:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin test"
test-owner:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner test"
etc...

I had assumed that since a similar process is used to resolve the correct
address when posting to the list or sending to the owner that the spam
handler would respond similarly to each.  Could anyone recommend a fix or a
how-to for this?  It does seem like a question which would have been asked
and answered many times over but I have not been able to find the info and
apologize if I missed it in a FAQ.

Using Mailman 2.1.2
Spamassassin 3.1.0

Thanks very much,
Michael Berkowski
---
MINITEX Library Information Network / MnLINK
University of Minnesota




From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan  4 19:16:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 10:16:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two questions
In-Reply-To: <00b901c61123$3b7e2c50$0300000a@bobacer>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601041016160093f2116e8d@msapiro>

Bob Tourkow wrote:
>
>1.  (Seemingly simple question)  How can I print out a complete list of the
>names and email addresses of all members of the list?


The command line tool

bin/list_members

Run it with the --help option for instructions.

If you don't have access to this and there is no one else in your
organization that does, see the thread at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-January/048473.html>


>2. I have a list that was once used for a one-time mailing, and I now need
>to remove all of the subscribers from it, without them receiving
>un-subscribed messages.  Unfortunately, I don?t have the original list I
>mass-subscribed (which I know if I had, I could simply do a
>mass-unsubscribe).  Is there an easy way to do this?

bin/remove_members

Run it with the --help option for instructions.

If you don't have access to this and there is no one else in your
organization that does, see the above thread for ways to make a list
you can use in a mass unsub.

Or just delete the list if you can.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan  4 19:35:20 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 10:35:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spamassassin/Mailman - filter messages
	tolist-owners
In-Reply-To: <005201c61158$2a49c630$900f5ea0@minitex.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601041035200406f2116fca@msapiro>

Michael Berkowski wrote:

>I have recently implemented SpamAssassin with Mailman on
>our server, using the spamd.py and spamassassin.py handlers described here:
>http://www.jamesh.id.au/articles/mailman-spamassassin/
>The spamd/spamassassin handlers are called with GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(1,
>'SpamAssassin') in mm_cfg.py.
>
>This method has far exceeded our expectations for reducing the amount of
>spam held for moderation, but it does not seem to have any effect on spam
>messages sent to the *-owner@ or *-request@ addresses.  It would appear that
>all messages to those addresses pass straight through without being scanned
>by the handlers, leaving phishing scams in our moderators' inboxes by the
>hundreds.  I never see anything related to these in the mailman logs.

There is a separate pipeline for messages to the owner, so if you want
to filter these, you need to add

OWNER_PIPELINE.insert(1, 'SpamAssassin')

in mm_cfg.py. Also note that this and the

GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(1, 'SpamAssassin')

insert SpamAssassin after Mailman's own SpamDetect module. It doesn't
really matter, but if you want to put it first, use

xxx_PIPELINE.insert(0, 'SpamAssassin').

OWNER_PIPELINE will directly take care of messages to -owner addresses.
Messages to the -admin and -bounces (admin is a synonym for bounces)
address will not be filtered, but if they are unrecognized and
forwarded to the owner, they will be processed through the
OWNER_PIPELINE at that point.

Messages to the -request address will not be filtered, but spam to this
address is normally just returned to the sender with an error message,
not forwarded to an owner/moderator.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From chris at westnet.com  Wed Jan  4 19:49:24 2006
From: chris at westnet.com (Christopher X. Candreva)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 13:49:24 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spamassassin/Mailman - filter messages
	tolist-owners
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601041035200406f2116fca@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200601041035200406f2116fca@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.62.0601041348060.24611@westnet.com>

On Wed, 4 Jan 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Messages to the -request address will not be filtered, but spam to this
> address is normally just returned to the sender with an error message,
> not forwarded to an owner/moderator.

Except spam often has a forged sender address, so sending an error to this 
address is usless at best, at worst part of a DDOS attack on the poor guy 
who's address is forged.

I would be interested in this as a way of preventing mailman from replying 
to anything that might be spam, so the ability to filter the -request 
addresses would be a good idea.

==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/


From berk0081 at umn.edu  Wed Jan  4 19:57:59 2006
From: berk0081 at umn.edu (Michael Berkowski)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 12:57:59 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spamassassin/Mailman - filter messages
	tolist-owners
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601041035200406f2116fca@msapiro>
Message-ID: <005d01c61160$c828af80$900f5ea0@minitex.umn.edu>

Thanks for the response, Mark.

I set this up and threw a few dozen messages at it with a VB test spamming
macro.  It works perfectly. 

Will messages discarded from OWNER_PIPELINE appear in any log as those
discarded from GLOBAL_PIPELINE appear in vette?

Thanks again,
Michael
---
MINITEX Library Information Network / MnLINK
University of Minnesota

> There is a separate pipeline for messages to the owner, so if you want
> to filter these, you need to add
> 
> OWNER_PIPELINE.insert(1, 'SpamAssassin')
> 
> in mm_cfg.py. Also note that this and the
> 
> GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(1, 'SpamAssassin')
> 
> insert SpamAssassin after Mailman's own SpamDetect module. It doesn't
> really matter, but if you want to put it first, use
> 
> xxx_PIPELINE.insert(0, 'SpamAssassin').
> 
> OWNER_PIPELINE will directly take care of messages to -owner addresses.
> Messages to the -admin and -bounces (admin is a synonym for bounces)
> address will not be filtered, but if they are unrecognized and
> forwarded to the owner, they will be processed through the
> OWNER_PIPELINE at that point.




From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan  4 21:04:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 12:04:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spamassassin/Mailman - filter messages
	tolist-owners
In-Reply-To: <005d01c61160$c828af80$900f5ea0@minitex.umn.edu>
Message-ID: <PC174020060104120410046802ba8b7e@Notebook>

Michael Berkowski wrote:
>
>Will messages discarded from OWNER_PIPELINE appear in any log as those
>discarded from GLOBAL_PIPELINE appear in vette?

Yes. They are processed by IncomingRunner just like normal posts. Only
the pipeline is different. Anything that results in a discarded
message will be logged to vette by IncomingRunner just as for normal
posts..

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From berk0081 at umn.edu  Wed Jan  4 22:39:22 2006
From: berk0081 at umn.edu (Michael Berkowski)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 15:39:22 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spamassassin/Mailman - filter messages
	tolist-owners
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060104120410046802ba8b7e@Notebook>
Message-ID: <008a01c61177$538dcc20$900f5ea0@minitex.umn.edu>

I see now why they didn't first appear in the log.  They never passed to the
SpamAssassin handler at all because I had a typo in my
OWNER_PIPELINE.insert() line.  My test spams were just being dropped
altogether. I've corrected it and the owner messages are now being properly
scored and logged in vette.

Thanks, you've been really helpful.
-Michael
---
MINITEX Library Information Network / MnLINK
University of Minnesota

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 2:04 PM
> To: Michael Berkowski; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Spamassassin/Mailman - filter messages
tolist-
> owners
> 
> Michael Berkowski wrote:
> >
> >Will messages discarded from OWNER_PIPELINE appear in any log as those
> >discarded from GLOBAL_PIPELINE appear in vette?
> 
> Yes. They are processed by IncomingRunner just like normal posts. Only
> the pipeline is different. Anything that results in a discarded
> message will be logged to vette by IncomingRunner just as for normal
> posts..
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Jan  4 22:56:39 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 15:56:39 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spamassassin/Mailman - filter messages
 tolist-owners
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601041035200406f2116fca@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200601041035200406f2116fca@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p062007a8bfe1f49e26bb@[192.168.1.100]>

At 10:35 AM -0800 2006-01-04, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  OWNER_PIPELINE will directly take care of messages to -owner addresses.
>  Messages to the -admin and -bounces (admin is a synonym for bounces)
>  address will not be filtered, but if they are unrecognized and
>  forwarded to the owner, they will be processed through the
>  OWNER_PIPELINE at that point.

	Also keep in mind that SpamAssassin can be integrated into the 
MTA instead of Mailman, which would give everyone on the server (and 
everything passing through) the same anti-spam benefits.  Combined 
with Mailman 2.1.6 (or later), and you can use the anti-spam features 
within Mailman to automatically throw away messages that have been 
marked by SpamAssassin.

	More information on these methods can be found in the Mailman FAQ Wizard.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From berk0081 at umn.edu  Wed Jan  4 23:17:01 2006
From: berk0081 at umn.edu (Michael Berkowski)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 16:17:01 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spamassassin/Mailman - filter messages
	tolist-owners
In-Reply-To: <p062007a8bfe1f49e26bb@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <009b01c6117c$96649970$900f5ea0@minitex.umn.edu>

Hi Brad, 

We had begun to run SpamAssassin directly with Postfix, but since that
server is really only used to manage our many Mailman lists, we found it
more convenient from an admin standpoint just to use the spamd.py and
spamassassin.py handlers for now.  There are no other email addresses active
on that system and only two of us have accounts as administrators anyway.
In the future we'll probably integrate SpamAssassin with Postfix, but for
now we're really pleased with how well it's working with Mailman alone.

I'm glad to know that's in the FAQ wizard though.

Thanks,
Michael
---
MINITEX Library Information Network / MnLINK
University of Minnesota

> 	Also keep in mind that SpamAssassin can be integrated into the
> MTA instead of Mailman, which would give everyone on the server (and
> everything passing through) the same anti-spam benefits.  Combined
> with Mailman 2.1.6 (or later), and you can use the anti-spam features
> within Mailman to automatically throw away messages that have been
> marked by SpamAssassin.
> 
> 	More information on these methods can be found in the Mailman FAQ
> Wizard.
> 
> --
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
> 
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
> 
>      -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>      Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
> 
>   LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.



From igueths at lava-net.com  Thu Jan  5 00:24:30 2006
From: igueths at lava-net.com (Igor Gueths)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 18:24:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem running Mailman on 2.6.11.7
Message-ID: <20060104232430.GA31476@lava-net.com>

Hi all. I'm attempting to get Mailman running on a Slackware-10.0 machine with 2.6.11.7 and Grsecurity installed. After running check_perms_grsecurity.py and then running ./mailmanctl start, I 
received several errors such as this:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 76, in ?
    import CheckFixUid
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/CheckFixUid.py", line 6, in ?
    class CheckFixUid:
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/CheckFixUid.py", line 12, in CheckFixUid
    if os.geteuid() != uid:
NameError: name 'uid' is not defined
I googled for checkfixuid, and the closest I came to a fix is http://www.mail-archive.com/cooker at linux-mandrake.com/msg126675.html
Unfortunately, I can't test that patch since its been packaged within an RPM. Any other ideas on how to fix this are appreciated. Thanks.
-- 
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little
   security will deserve neither and lose both.
-- Benjamin Franklin
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From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jan  5 01:28:19 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 16:28:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem running Mailman on 2.6.11.7
In-Reply-To: <20060104232430.GA31476@lava-net.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601041628190375cb49e54a@Notebook>

Igor Gueths wrote:
>
>Hi all. I'm attempting to get Mailman running on a Slackware-10.0 machine with 2.6.11.7 and Grsecurity installed. After running check_perms_grsecurity.py and then running ./mailmanctl start, I
>received several errors such as this:
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 76, in ?
>    import CheckFixUid
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/CheckFixUid.py", line 6, in ?
>    class CheckFixUid:
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/CheckFixUid.py", line 12, in CheckFixUid
>    if os.geteuid() != uid:
>NameError: name 'uid' is not defined
>I googled for checkfixuid, and the closest I came to a fix is http://www.mail-archive.com/cooker at linux-mandrake.com/msg126675.html
>Unfortunately, I can't test that patch since its been packaged within an RPM. Any other ideas on how to fix this are appreciated. Thanks.

check_perms_grsecurity.py and its 'child' CheckFixUid.py are user
contributed software. I suggest you follow up with the contributor.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From andy at bardwellconsulting.com  Thu Jan  5 06:11:23 2006
From: andy at bardwellconsulting.com (Andy Bardwell)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 22:11:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help sending to multiple lists
Message-ID: <003001c60d51$461dd4b0$6501a8c0@HPNC6000>

I am working with a community radio station which has multiple lists in
Mailman that are used to contact volunteers.  A volunteer can be on
several of the lists.  We frequently want to send to all volunteers.  Is
there a way to send to all the lists, with out duplicates?  One way this
could happen would be to merge all the lists, eliminate duplicates, and
send to the resulting list.  Is there a script that will do this or some
other way of accomplishing sending an email to multiple lists without
duplicates?  Any suggestions welcome.
 
Bardwell Consulting 
Robert A(ndy) Bardwell, Ph.D.
4801 W. Yale Ave.
Denver, CO  80219
Voice:  303-934-3851
Cell:  720-219-3627
Fax:  303-975-8513
www.bardwellconsulting.com
 


From dylan.limwc at gmail.com  Thu Jan  5 06:29:50 2006
From: dylan.limwc at gmail.com (dylan lim)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 13:29:50 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems running genaliases
Message-ID: <d3275f430601042129p325df09ehf8dbe2daa97b0bc1@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

While trying to generate the data/aliases.db files using genaliases, I have
encountered a problem:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./genaliases", line 116, in ?
    main()
  File "./genaliases", line 106, in main
    MTA.create(mlist, nolock=True, quiet=quiet)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 232, in create
    _update_maps()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 53, in _update_maps
    raise RuntimeError, msg % (acmd, status, errstr)
RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias
/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases (status: 1, Operation not permitted)


I am not sure how to resolve this. Can anyone point me in the right
direction? Thanks.


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jan  5 06:35:18 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 21:35:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sorting out bounces
In-Reply-To: <87hd8monzx.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC17402006010421351801402bbbfc7e@msapiro>

>>>>>> "Eric" == Eric S Johansson <esj at harvee.org> writes:
>
>    Eric> and obviously something is broken with my environment and
>    Eric> has been for years with various distributions.  When the
>    Eric> monthly notices go out, the human associated with the
>    Eric> mailman address gets all of the bounces.


I'm coming in very late on this thread, but I just want to point out
one thing.

Monthly password reminders are sent from the site list because they
contain the passwords for ALL the user's list memberships at that site
(or virtual domain), and thus don't come from a single list.

Thus when a password reminder bounces, the bounce goes to the site
list. I don't know why this is a problem in general, since if the
bounce is recognizable, it is usually for an address that isn't a
member of the list and is just ignored. Meanwhile, if the address is
truly bouncing, posts from the list(s) it is a member of should be
bouncing and processed as normal bounces for the list(s).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jan  5 06:50:42 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 21:50:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help sending to multiple lists
In-Reply-To: <003001c60d51$461dd4b0$6501a8c0@HPNC6000>
Message-ID: <PC17402006010421504209842bbbffe2@msapiro>

Andy Bardwell wrote:

>I am working with a community radio station which has multiple lists in
>Mailman that are used to contact volunteers.  A volunteer can be on
>several of the lists.  We frequently want to send to all volunteers.  Is
>there a way to send to all the lists, with out duplicates?  One way this
>could happen would be to merge all the lists, eliminate duplicates, and
>send to the resulting list.  Is there a script that will do this or some
>other way of accomplishing sending an email to multiple lists without
>duplicates?  Any suggestions welcome.

As noted in the reply at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-January/048458.html>
to your previous post, See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.005.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jan  5 06:58:45 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 21:58:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help !!! Having Subgroups/Subsets a group
In-Reply-To: <20060102165912.M51465@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>
Message-ID: <PC17402006010421584500782bbbfc5b@msapiro>

Kabilan L wrote:
>
>I have Centos sever having mailman-2.1.5-33.rhel4 installed and configured it
>is working fine.I have LDAP running on my server.I have an doubt in the
>creating new lists/groups.I want to have subgroups.For example
>i have students suppose in 
>ms group
>phd group
>btech group
>Here all of them are students i don't want to add their ids to the group
>students ratheri i want this 
>         students
>   |---------|------------|
>   ms        phd          btech 
>that is ms/phd/btech subgroups of students.
>Is it possible?

It seems like you want an umbrella list. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.005.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jan  5 07:14:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2006 22:14:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems running genaliases
In-Reply-To: <d3275f430601042129p325df09ehf8dbe2daa97b0bc1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006010422144308902bbbff85@msapiro>

dylan lim wrote:
>
>While trying to generate the data/aliases.db files using genaliases, I have
>encountered a problem:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "./genaliases", line 116, in ?
>    main()
>  File "./genaliases", line 106, in main
>    MTA.create(mlist, nolock=True, quiet=quiet)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 232, in create
>    _update_maps()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 53, in _update_maps
>    raise RuntimeError, msg % (acmd, status, errstr)
>RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias
>/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases (status: 1, Operation not permitted)


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.009.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dylan.limwc at gmail.com  Thu Jan  5 07:31:17 2006
From: dylan.limwc at gmail.com (dylan lim)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 14:31:17 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems running genaliases
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006010422144308902bbbff85@msapiro>
References: <d3275f430601042129p325df09ehf8dbe2daa97b0bc1@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006010422144308902bbbff85@msapiro>
Message-ID: <d3275f430601042231o795a6b10ha4b2476f3e60ee3e@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Thanks for your help. I have read this faq before. However, my problem is
that I do not have aliases or aliases.db file at all after I have done my
compilation of mailman. Creating a newlist and running genaliases to
generate these files gave me the above errors.

Thank you for your time.

On 1/5/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> dylan lim wrote:
> >
> >While trying to generate the data/aliases.db files using genaliases, I
> have
> >encountered a problem:
> >
> >Traceback (most recent call last):
> >  File "./genaliases", line 116, in ?
> >    main()
> >  File "./genaliases", line 106, in main
> >    MTA.create(mlist, nolock=True, quiet=quiet)
> >  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 232, in create
> >    _update_maps()
> >  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 53, in
> _update_maps
> >    raise RuntimeError, msg % (acmd, status, errstr)
> >RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias
> >/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases (status: 1, Operation not permitted)
>
>
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.009.htp>
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From Hugo.Rodriguez at alhambra-eidos.com  Thu Jan  5 13:45:34 2006
From: Hugo.Rodriguez at alhambra-eidos.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Hugo_Rodr=EDguez_Pinillos?=)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 13:45:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Management
Message-ID: <5383F55524AE6748B360645F92DCCB3F018898@ALHM3SRV.ae.local>

Please, anyone knows how doing this?

 
I'm using the mailman software and I have a question.

When the bounce emails are generated I receive them in my email account but I would need to have another type of management of those emails. For example, one inform of those emails or statistics of them.
 
Do you help me? Exits any software for this or any option for doing this?
 

Thank you very much.
Hugo


From monurergin at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  5 21:41:18 2006
From: monurergin at yahoo.com (M. Onur ERGiN)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 12:41:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] falling back to login screen (repeat)
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601032114050828714d6281@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060105204118.85228.qmail@web30313.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

configuration of httpd is not changed. In this server, I also run sqwebmail, a cgi based user interface for maildirs, and it runs just perfect. I am sure, nothing is wrong with the post information.. And when I check the cookies, I just see the following hex data as mailman's cookies:
2802000000691b8fbd43732800000062363332363834313838613135333262393534636264633432616634373730316532353532316665

is there a way to verify this data?

And for the firewall, there is one in the network, but i also try to access the admin console from the lan. I don't think the network firewall would affect my server that way, but if it does so, is there a way to detect it?

Thanks,
Onur.

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote: M. Onur ERGiN wrote:

>nah, nothing works. I've checked all off the binaries in bin's and sbin's. Also tryed the cookie modules of the web server and verified that they work. 
>
>From this point, would you have some recommendations? should I reinstall mailman? or should I start with trying reinstalling web server?

In a recent thread

this problem was caused a personal firewall on the affected computer.
In your case, perhaps some more global, network firewall or proxy is
involved.

Also, I know you said you saw FAQ 4.45, but since there were httpd
changes, I would look at these very carefully to see if some redirect
or other httpd change may be losing post data or cookies.

-- 
Mark Sapiro        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




		
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less

From dylan.limwc at gmail.com  Fri Jan  6 02:26:40 2006
From: dylan.limwc at gmail.com (dylan lim)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 09:26:40 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem creating aliases.db
Message-ID: <d3275f430601051726q12ea3050s5fa4f545965d7ed8@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I am encountering a weird problem when I run

postalias /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases

A aliases.db file should have been created in
/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases but instead I obtain this from my maillog:

Jan  6 08:53:18 localhost postfix/postalias[23346]: fatal: open database
/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases.db: Permission denied

I have ran check_perms -f
and my directory permissions for /usr/local/mailman/data looks like this:

total 104
drwxrwsr-x   2 root    mailman  4096 Jan  6 08:51 .
drwxrwsr-x  20 root    mailman  4096 Jan  4 18:09 ..
-rw-r-----   1 root    mailman    41 Jan  4 18:12 adm.pw
-rwxrwxrwx   1 mailman mailman  1154 Jan  5 18:19 aliases
-rwxrwxrwx   1 mailman mailman 12288 Jan  5 09:51 aliases.db.old
-rw-rw-rw-   1 mailman mailman     0 Jan  5 09:26 bounce-events-32361.pck
-rw-rw-rw-   1 mailman mailman     0 Jan  5 09:26 bounce-events-32377.pck
-rw-rw-rw-   1 mailman mailman     0 Jan  5 09:27 bounce-events-32403.pck
-rw-rw-rw-   1 mailman mailman     0 Jan  5 09:36 bounce-events-32561.pck
-rw-rw-rw-   1 mailman mailman     0 Jan  5 09:44 bounce-events-32686.pck
-rw-r--r--   1 root    mailman    10 Jan  4 18:12 last_mailman_version
-rw-rw----   1 mailman mailman     5 Jan  5 14:37 master-qrunner.pid
-rw-r--r--   1 root    mailman 14110 Jan  5 13:36 sitelist.cfg

Can anyone point me in the right direction? I have been looking for an
answer for this for sometime. Thank you for your help.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan  6 02:51:40 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 17:51:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem creating aliases.db
In-Reply-To: <d3275f430601051726q12ea3050s5fa4f545965d7ed8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601051751400421f1826fed@msapiro>

dylan lim wrote:
>
>I am encountering a weird problem when I run
>
>postalias /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
>
>A aliases.db file should have been created in
>/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases but instead I obtain this from my maillog:


Actually in /usr/local/mailman/data/


>Jan  6 08:53:18 localhost postfix/postalias[23346]: fatal: open database
>/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases.db: Permission denied
>
>I have ran check_perms -f
>and my directory permissions for /usr/local/mailman/data looks like this:
>
>total 104
>drwxrwsr-x   2 root    mailman  4096 Jan  6 08:51 .


So only root or the mailman group can write to /usr/local/mailman/data/
and create a file (aliases.db) there. As what user:group are you
running the postalias command?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From elvisfern at gmail.com  Fri Jan  6 04:17:27 2006
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 19:17:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turn off receipt of duplicate emails
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601031629290921dd26a816@msapiro>
References: <5b1c0dc50601031541s25bd73d0j753504c10d0f7816@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200601031629290921dd26a816@msapiro>
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50601051917i3128b354m7e6d598b89a1aaed@mail.gmail.com>

Mark,

Thanks! That should work for me.

Regards
Elvis

On 1/3/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Elvis Fernandes wrote:
> >
> >I have a mail list (a.list) that includes a couple of sub list's (b.list,
> >c.list).
> >Some users are members of both these sub lists.
> >
> >Currently, if I send out an email to a.list, then users who are common
> >members of b.list and c.list will receive the same email two times.
> >Right? I want to avoid that.
> >
> >Is there an option in mailman (for either the sysadmin or the user).
>
>
> No, but see
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.005.htp>
> for possible work arounds.
>
>
> >The user level subsciption option "*Avoid duplicate copies of messages?"
> >does not do this task. *
>
> Right. This only controls whether or not you receive a post from the
> list if your address is in To: or Cc:.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan  6 06:14:13 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 21:14:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] falling back to login screen (repeat)
In-Reply-To: <20060105204118.85228.qmail@web30313.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006010521141304379523bf82@msapiro>

M. Onur ERGiN wrote:
>
>configuration of httpd is not changed. In this server, I also run sqwebmail, a cgi based user interface for maildirs, and it runs just perfect. I am sure, nothing is wrong with the post information.. And when I check the cookies, I just see the following hex data as mailman's cookies:
>2802000000691b8fbd43732800000062363332363834313838613135333262393534636264633432616634373730316532353532316665
>
>is there a way to verify this data?


What is the name of this cookie? It should be 'LISTNAME+admin'. The
data is of the correct form (110 hex digits). For more info, see the
comments at the beginning of Mailman/SecurityManager.py. I think it is
highly unlikely that the cookie is set with invalid data. If there is
any problem with the cookie, it would be that it isn't accepted or
returned by the browser or that it is blocked somehow, not that the
data would be wrong.


>And for the firewall, there is one in the network, but i also try to access the admin console from the lan. I don't think the network firewall would affect my server that way, but if it does so, is there a way to detect it?


I agree that if you have the same problem from the local side if the
firewall, then the firewall probably isn't involved.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mark at phillipsmarketing.biz  Fri Jan  6 07:08:11 2006
From: mark at phillipsmarketing.biz (Mark Phillips)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 23:08:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail List Question for Mailman
Message-ID: <200601052308.12246.mark@phillipsmarketing.biz>

I am new to mailman, so please excuse this newbie question. Our ISP has 
mailman installed on our web server, but I am not sure it will solve our mail 
list problem. I have looked through the documentation on the mailman web 
site, but I have not found an answer to my questions.

We are a large little league with a player/family base of about 1200. I need 
to create several email lists. For example, on the softball side, we have 5 
divisions of 6- 8 teams per division. That is 40 email lists just for players 
and their families, not to mention commissioners, team managers, team 
coaches, team moms, and other volunteers. The baseball side is twice as big.

I don't want mail for one team to always go to the other teams. Nor mail for 
the commissioner and managers in one division to necessarily go to the other 
divisions. Do I have to create a separate email list for every possible 
combination of players, coaches, managers, team, commissioners, etc.? Is 
there a way to simplify this and pull addresses from a mysql database based 
on some criteria? For example, send an email to all the players, coaches, 
managers, and commissioner to the Chicago Colleens in the Farm division. Or 
send mail to all the softball managers and commissioners.

I am a Java programmer, not a python programmer, so I may be out of luck if 
the answer is to change the mailman source code. Also, I am pretty sure our 
ISP will not allow me to modify the mailman source and then install it on our 
shared server.

Do I have to build a solution from scratch using jsp/servlets/mysql in Java?  
Can I use mailman to solve my email list problem?

Thanks for any thoughts or suggestions you may have!

-- 
Mark Phillips
Phillips Marketing, Inc
mark at phillipsmarketing.biz
602 524-0376
480 945-9197 fax


From monurergin at yahoo.com  Fri Jan  6 11:26:29 2006
From: monurergin at yahoo.com (M. Onur ERGiN)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 02:26:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] falling back to login screen (repeat)
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006010521141304379523bf82@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060106102629.13537.qmail@web30309.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The name of the cookie, is LISTNAME+admin
Path: /mailman/
Send For: Any type of connection
Expires: at end of session

Cookie seems correct. Also, again, this problem happens everywhere. Not just on one specific computer. 

Another detail that may be useful is; one day my web server crashed, an it took some time to find out the problem. It was related to mod_mime_magic module. In the httpd.conf, there were a line: MIMEMagicFile /etc/httpd/conf/magic . This line was preventing me from starting the http service. and its status was :  httpd stopped but subsys locked!

When I changed that line to "MimeMagicFile /etc/httpd/conf/magic " (MIME --> Mime) I could be able to start the web service, and it is now working fine. Can the problem be somehow related to mod_mime_magic ?? (I suppose, it shouldn't be)

Thanks, 
Onur.

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote: M. Onur ERGiN wrote:
>
>configuration of httpd is not changed. In this server, I also run sqwebmail, a cgi based user interface for maildirs, and it runs just perfect. I am sure, nothing is wrong with the post information.. And when I check the cookies, I just see the following hex data as mailman's cookies:
>2802000000691b8fbd43732800000062363332363834313838613135333262393534636264633432616634373730316532353532316665
>
>is there a way to verify this data?


What is the name of this cookie? It should be 'LISTNAME+admin'. The
data is of the correct form (110 hex digits). For more info, see the
comments at the beginning of Mailman/SecurityManager.py. I think it is
highly unlikely that the cookie is set with invalid data. If there is
any problem with the cookie, it would be that it isn't accepted or
returned by the browser or that it is blocked somehow, not that the
data would be wrong.


>And for the firewall, there is one in the network, but i also try to access the admin console from the lan. I don't think the network firewall would affect my server that way, but if it does so, is there a way to detect it?


I agree that if you have the same problem from the local side if the
firewall, then the firewall probably isn't involved.


-- 
Mark Sapiro        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




			
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos
 Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.

From dpifer at odu.edu  Fri Jan  6 16:52:02 2006
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 10:52:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User unknown messages
Message-ID: <1136562722.3838.115.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

Hello,

      One of our list serve admins is trying to send out a bunch of
email to several list serves. He has defined a group in Lotus Notes,
which comprises the different list serves, and when he sends mail to
the group, the mail is not being delivered. The mail logs show that
mail is coming from the list serve but is not being delivered because
of 'user unknown' messages. We use LDAP, specifically OpenLDAP on a
Linux, for our user lookups. The directory is working properly.
Here are a few of the 'user unknown' messages:

Jan  6 10:36:07 sendmail[31936]: 
Jan  6 10:36:07 sendmail[31936]: k06Fa6Cl031936: to=<twa at odu.edu>,
delay=00:00:01, pri=989527, stat=User unknown
[bunches of other addresses come out the same]

Even though LDAP knows about the user:

[dpifer syslog]$ sendmail -bv twa at odu.edu

Terry/OCCS/AF/ODU at notes.odu.edu... deliverable: mailer esmtp, host
notes.odu.edu., user Terry/OCCS/AF/ODU at notes.odu.edu

I can deliver mail to this user okay but the problem is when the
mail comes through mailman. I am not seeing anything in the
mailman or sendmail logs to see any other failures.

Has any one seen this? Are we reaching some threshold causing
this problem? We need to get this mail out today for our list
serve admin.

Darren
ODU



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan  6 17:46:53 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 08:46:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] falling back to login screen (repeat)
In-Reply-To: <20060106102629.13537.qmail@web30309.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006010608465301096e215422@msapiro>

M. Onur ERGiN wrote:
>
>Another detail that may be useful is; one day my web server crashed, an it took some time to find out the problem. It was related to mod_mime_magic module. In the httpd.conf, there were a line: MIMEMagicFile /etc/httpd/conf/magic . This line was preventing me from starting the http service. and its status was :  httpd stopped but subsys locked!
>
>When I changed that line to "MimeMagicFile /etc/httpd/conf/magic " (MIME --> Mime) I could be able to start the web service, and it is now working fine. Can the problem be somehow related to mod_mime_magic ?? (I suppose, it shouldn't be)

Two things here. Apache directive names (as opposed to arguments) are
case-insensitive, so your change above shouldn't make any difference.
And, assuming /etc/httpd/conf/magic is the default, I don't think this
could be involved.

If this were my problem, I would run a packet sniffer on the host and
make sure that the cookie is being properly returned in the GET and
POST requests.

Or I might start by modifying Mailman/Cgi/admin.py to log some
additional debugging information - in particular,
os.environ.get('HTTP_COOKIE').

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan  6 18:25:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 09:25:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User unknown messages
In-Reply-To: <1136562722.3838.115.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC174020060106092508017175a777f3@msapiro>

Darren G Pifer wrote:
>
>      One of our list serve admins is trying to send out a bunch of
>email to several list serves. He has defined a group in Lotus Notes,
>which comprises the different list serves, and when he sends mail to
>the group, the mail is not being delivered. The mail logs show that
>mail is coming from the list serve but is not being delivered because
>of 'user unknown' messages. We use LDAP, specifically OpenLDAP on a
>Linux, for our user lookups. The directory is working properly.
>Here are a few of the 'user unknown' messages:

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying there is a group in Lotus
Notes which consists of the addresses of some Mailman lists and mail
to that group is sent to the Mailman lists and resent by Mailman to
the list members and is ultimately not delivered because the outgoing
MTA says 'user unknown'?

What happens when a post is sent directly to one of these lists, not
via the Lotus Notes group?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dpifer at odu.edu  Fri Jan  6 18:25:18 2006
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 12:25:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User unknown messages
In-Reply-To: <1136562722.3838.115.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
References: <1136562722.3838.115.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <1136568318.3838.133.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

I want to include some more information that may help try to figure
this out. Mail was sent to one list serve with 19 members, another
list serve that had 32 members was not delivered. BTW, the person
sending the mail is not the list owner that I originally reported but is
a list member. This user does not have the moderate flag set on either
list in membership management. Also, if it matters we are using MM
2.1.6b4.

Darren

On Fri, 2006-01-06 at 10:52 -0500, Darren G Pifer wrote:
> Hello,
> 
>       One of our list serve admins is trying to send out a bunch of
> email to several list serves. He has defined a group in Lotus Notes,
> which comprises the different list serves, and when he sends mail to
> the group, the mail is not being delivered. The mail logs show that
> mail is coming from the list serve but is not being delivered because
> of 'user unknown' messages. We use LDAP, specifically OpenLDAP on a
> Linux, for our user lookups. The directory is working properly.
> Here are a few of the 'user unknown' messages:
> 
> Jan  6 10:36:07 sendmail[31936]: 
> Jan  6 10:36:07 sendmail[31936]: k06Fa6Cl031936: to=<twa at odu.edu>,
> delay=00:00:01, pri=989527, stat=User unknown
> [bunches of other addresses come out the same]
> 
> Even though LDAP knows about the user:
> 
> [dpifer syslog]$ sendmail -bv twa at odu.edu
> 
> Terry/OCCS/AF/ODU at notes.odu.edu... deliverable: mailer esmtp, host
> notes.odu.edu., user Terry/OCCS/AF/ODU at notes.odu.edu
> 
> I can deliver mail to this user okay but the problem is when the
> mail comes through mailman. I am not seeing anything in the
> mailman or sendmail logs to see any other failures.
> 
> Has any one seen this? Are we reaching some threshold causing
> this problem? We need to get this mail out today for our list
> serve admin.
> 
> Darren
> ODU
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dpifer%40odu.edu
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> 
-- 



From dpifer at odu.edu  Fri Jan  6 18:29:32 2006
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 12:29:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User unknown messages
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060106092508017175a777f3@msapiro>
References: <PC174020060106092508017175a777f3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1136568572.3838.138.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

Hello,

On Fri, 2006-01-06 at 09:25 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Darren G Pifer wrote:
> >
> >      One of our list serve admins is trying to send out a bunch of
> >email to several list serves. He has defined a group in Lotus Notes,
> >which comprises the different list serves, and when he sends mail to
> >the group, the mail is not being delivered. The mail logs show that
> >mail is coming from the list serve but is not being delivered because
> >of 'user unknown' messages. We use LDAP, specifically OpenLDAP on a
> >Linux, for our user lookups. The directory is working properly.
> >Here are a few of the 'user unknown' messages:
> 
> I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying there is a group in Lotus
> Notes which consists of the addresses of some Mailman lists and mail
> to that group is sent to the Mailman lists and resent by Mailman to
> the list members and is ultimately not delivered because the outgoing
> MTA says 'user unknown'?

That is correct. According to the sender, this used to work but does
not now. No changes have been made to the list (AFAIK) and none to
the mailman software.

> What happens when a post is sent directly to one of these lists, not
> via the Lotus Notes group?

I asked the user to send mail from Lotus Notes to the listserve and it
does the same thing. Just to you know, the sender has several list
serves he is mailing to. In one case, the mail was delivered (to 19
members), the other was not delivered (to 32 members). I am checking
the configuration of both list serves and conparing them. I will let
you know what I find out.

Darren
ODU



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan  6 18:48:31 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 09:48:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User unknown messages
In-Reply-To: <1136568572.3838.138.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402006010609483103592b732726@msapiro>

Darren G Pifer wrote:
>
>On Fri, 2006-01-06 at 09:25 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> What happens when a post is sent directly to one of these lists, not
>> via the Lotus Notes group?
>
>I asked the user to send mail from Lotus Notes to the listserve and it
>does the same thing. Just to you know, the sender has several list
>serves he is mailing to. In one case, the mail was delivered (to 19
>members), the other was not delivered (to 32 members). I am checking
>the configuration of both list serves and conparing them. I will let
>you know what I find out.


So in both cases Mailman sends to the list members (does everything
look normal in Mailman's 'post' and 'smtp' logs?), but in one case,
all 19 member posts are delivered and in the other all 32 are not
delivered because the MTA says 'user unknown'. Perhaps it is the
sender (LISTNAME-bounces) that is unknown to the MTA.

Can anyone successfully post to the problem list?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sean at adoptionmedia.com  Fri Jan  6 19:20:43 2006
From: sean at adoptionmedia.com (Sean Roe)
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 11:20:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce issue
Message-ID: <43BEB4FB.8090709@adoptionmedia.com>

Hi All,

I think I am on the down hill slide of this adventure but I am still 
stuck on a couple of things.  for a little back story:  I have two 
mailman installs on one machine, due primarily to one using the mysql 
connector and one being a vanilla install.  I am in the process of 
trying to figure out why my mysql based list isn't working. the test 
list on it sends out list mail but it shows as coming from the bounce 
address.  the From field shows correctly, but the sender field shows 
test_emag-bounces at adoptionweek.com.  Im looking in the logs and I see that:

Jan 06 11:03:09 2006 (19833) post to test_emag from 
emageditor at adoptionweek.com, size=52564, 
message-id=<E1EuvHu-0007Lm-MP at ws02.adoption.com>, success

it was posted successfully.  What else can I check?

Thanks,
Sean Roe
 


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan  6 19:42:00 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 10:42:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce issue
In-Reply-To: <43BEB4FB.8090709@adoptionmedia.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006010610420009378096fd69@msapiro>

Sean Roe wrote:
>
>I am in the process of 
>trying to figure out why my mysql based list isn't working. the test 
>list on it sends out list mail but it shows as coming from the bounce 
>address.  the From field shows correctly, but the sender field shows 
>test_emag-bounces at adoptionweek.com.

This is exactly what it's supposed to be. The envelope is from the
-bounces address so that bounces will be returned to the -bounces
address for automated bounce processing.

The -bounces address is also placed in Sender: and Errors-To: headers
for the benefit of non-compliant MTAs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sean at adoptionmedia.com  Fri Jan  6 19:52:14 2006
From: sean at adoptionmedia.com (Sean Roe)
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 11:52:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce issue
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006010610420009378096fd69@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006010610420009378096fd69@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43BEBC5E.5080203@adoptionmedia.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Sean Roe wrote:
>   
>> I am in the process of 
>> trying to figure out why my mysql based list isn't working. the test 
>> list on it sends out list mail but it shows as coming from the bounce 
>> address.  the From field shows correctly, but the sender field shows 
>> test_emag-bounces at adoptionweek.com.
>>     
>
> This is exactly what it's supposed to be. The envelope is from the
> -bounces address so that bounces will be returned to the -bounces
> address for automated bounce processing.
>
> The -bounces address is also placed in Sender: and Errors-To: headers
> for the benefit of non-compliant MTAs.
>
>   
Ooops my bad.  Sorry I misunderstood what the field is for.  So it is 
working as promised.  I guess I'll try sending out the big list now 
~120k users.

Thanks,
Sean


From dpifer at odu.edu  Fri Jan  6 20:56:27 2006
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 14:56:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User unknown messages
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060106105254096823ed05de@msapiro>
References: <PC174020060106105254096823ed05de@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1136577387.3838.186.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

Hello,

       Thanks for all the help but I got resolution from our spam
filter vendor Roaring Penguin. Apparently, the issue was a side effect
of the interaction of the Mailman and CanIt-PRO, the spam filter
software we have implemented on our mail machines. It seems that if
there was one address in the list that was bad it would cause the whole
message to be rejected. Their recommendation changes cause Mailman to
submit mail through the mail server's address rather than from
localhost. Since the mail no longer appears to be coming from
'localhost', CanIt-PRO will do address validation at RCPT time rather
than waiting until after the DATA phase. Before the change, canit would
reject the message if there was one bad recipient, now it will rejects
only the bad recipients.

On Fri, 2006-01-06 at 10:52 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Darren G Pifer wrote:
> 
> These log entries indicate that in both cases the outgoing message was
> accepted for delivery by the outgoing MTA. Whatever the issue is that
> is preventing delivery of the 32, it is not detected until later in
> the process when the MTA attempts to deliver to the 32 recipients.
> 
> Is there any difference in the form of the actual member addresses
> between the two lists?

Here are the recommended changes from the vendor:

1) In /etc/mail/access, add this line:

Connect:mailserver1.odu.edu         RELAY

2) Rebuild the access DB:  make -C /etc/mail

3) Edit Mailman's "Defaults.py" file.

Make sure the following two settings are set as follows:

DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
SMTPHOST = 'mailserver1.odu.edu'

Darren
ODU



From td3201 at gmail.com  Fri Jan  6 20:36:56 2006
From: td3201 at gmail.com (Terry)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 13:36:56 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] poster receives copy of post
Message-ID: <8ee061010601061136r5815e464ocf168eb568559a92@mail.gmail.com>

Where can I configure it so the poster receives a copy of the post?  I
am using version 2.1.5.

Thanks!


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan  6 21:26:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 12:26:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User unknown messages
In-Reply-To: <1136577387.3838.186.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC174020060106122608015657c5b3e4@msapiro>

Darren G Pifer wrote:
>
>3) Edit Mailman's "Defaults.py" file.
>
>Make sure the following two settings are set as follows:
>
>DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
>SMTPHOST = 'mailserver1.odu.edu'


Never edit Defaults.py!

You make changes by setting things in mm_cfg.py. These settings will
override the Defaults.py settings.

In this case, Defaults.py contains

DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'

and

SMTPHOST = 'localhost'

So you would put

SMTPHOST = 'mailserver1.odu.edu'

in mm_cfg.py. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.021.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan  6 21:32:02 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 12:32:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] poster receives copy of post
In-Reply-To: <8ee061010601061136r5815e464ocf168eb568559a92@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060106123202015657c5b3de@msapiro>

Terry wrote:

>Where can I configure it so the poster receives a copy of the post?  I
>am using version 2.1.5.

This is a per-member setting. The default for new members is set on the
list's General Options page under "Default options for new members
joining this list." For existing members, it is the "not metoo"
setting on the Membership Management...->Membership List pages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From carbonnb at gmail.com  Fri Jan  6 21:34:30 2006
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 15:34:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] poster receives copy of post
In-Reply-To: <8ee061010601061136r5815e464ocf168eb568559a92@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8ee061010601061136r5815e464ocf168eb568559a92@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e04a6c920601061234le6e441ck@mail.gmail.com>

On 06/01/06, Terry <td3201 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Where can I configure it so the poster receives a copy of the post?  I
> am using version 2.1.5.

If the post is using GMail, then they won't see a copy even if one os
delivered. GMail does something with the incoming e-mail and if they
sent it, it won't show the received one.

I believe there are other services that do this as well.

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"


From Irosenblum at nyc.rr.com  Sat Jan  7 13:39:39 2006
From: Irosenblum at nyc.rr.com (Ira Rosenblum)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 07:39:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail not reaching everyone on mailing list
Message-ID: <87000324-041A-4DD5-A44F-D9056ECC49F8@nyc.rr.com>

Last week I wrote that none of the mail (using Mailman 2.1.6) being  
sent to my list was reaching the list members, but I have since  
discovered that about 25% of the members (that's a rough estimate)  
are receiving mail, while the rest are not. It makes no sense to me.  
The list has about 310 names on it, most of which were mass  
subscribed by my cutting and pasting e-mail addresses (as text only;  
I removed the hyperlinks from them first) from an excel spreadsheet.
Last week, Mark answered by asking: Have you checked Mailman's 'smtp'  
and 'smtp-failure' logs? Also, the error log?
I don't have access to the logs. I've asked someone who does to  
check, but I haven't heard from them yet. Meanwhile, does this make  
any sense at all, that the mail is so sporadic? Has anyone else had  
this problem, and if so, how did you resolve it?
Ira


From heather at madrone.com  Sat Jan  7 19:10:52 2006
From: heather at madrone.com (Heather Madrone)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 10:10:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail not reaching everyone on mailing list
In-Reply-To: <87000324-041A-4DD5-A44F-D9056ECC49F8@nyc.rr.com>
References: <87000324-041A-4DD5-A44F-D9056ECC49F8@nyc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <p06230918bfe5b4016caa@[192.168.123.137]>

At 7:39 AM -0500 1/7/06, Ira Rosenblum wrote:
>Last week I wrote that none of the mail (using Mailman 2.1.6) being 
>sent to my list was reaching the list members, but I have since 
>discovered that about 25% of the members (that's a rough estimate) 
>are receiving mail, while the rest are not. It makes no sense to me. 
>The list has about 310 names on it, most of which were mass 
>subscribed by my cutting and pasting e-mail addresses (as text only; 
>I removed the hyperlinks from them first) from an excel spreadsheet.
>Last week, Mark answered by asking: Have you checked Mailman's 'smtp' 
>and 'smtp-failure' logs? Also, the error log?
>I don't have access to the logs. I've asked someone who does to 
>check, but I haven't heard from them yet. Meanwhile, does this make 
>any sense at all, that the mail is so sporadic? Has anyone else had 
>this problem, and if so, how did you resolve it?

Did you strip off the human-readable part of the addresses before you
put them in the bulk subscription box?  My hunch would be that you
still have something more than a bare email address there, and
some mail servers are snuffy about the format of the address.  Gmail
is one such.

-- 
Heather Madrone  (heather at madrone.com)  http://www.madrone.com

"Ye shall know the Truth and the Truth shall make you Fret."
	-- Terry Pratchett



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jan  7 20:13:47 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 11:13:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail not reaching everyone on mailing list
In-Reply-To: <p06230918bfe5b4016caa@[192.168.123.137]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601071113470890fedb53c9@msapiro>

Heather Madrone wrote:

>At 7:39 AM -0500 1/7/06, Ira Rosenblum wrote:
>>Last week I wrote that none of the mail (using Mailman 2.1.6) being 
>>sent to my list was reaching the list members, but I have since 
>>discovered that about 25% of the members (that's a rough estimate) 
>>are receiving mail, while the rest are not.
>
>Did you strip off the human-readable part of the addresses before you
>put them in the bulk subscription box?  My hunch would be that you
>still have something more than a bare email address there, and
>some mail servers are snuffy about the format of the address.  Gmail
>is one such.

In a prior post, you indicated mail was bouncing and incrementing
member's bounce scores.

If Heather's suggestion doesn't solve the problem, do the following.

Be sure you have bounce_notify_owner_on_disable set to yes. Also
consider setting bounce_score_threshold to a fairly low value (e.g. 2)
so the bouncing members will be disabled soon. Then, as members are
disabled, notifications with the actual bounce notice attached will be
sent to the list owner. This should enable you to figure out why the
addresses are not deliverable.
	
-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jon-arne at bueklubb.no  Sun Jan  8 02:21:11 2006
From: jon-arne at bueklubb.no (Jon-Arne Storelv (bueklubb.no))
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 02:21:11 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Send a rejection message when a message is too big
Message-ID: <002e01c613f1$cfe62390$6500a8c0@MILO>

Is there any possibility to send a rejection message when a message is
bigger than the max_message_size?

Regards

Jon-Arne 


From mark at phillipsmarketing.biz  Sun Jan  8 04:46:17 2006
From: mark at phillipsmarketing.biz (Mark Phillips)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 20:46:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need help setting up a list
Message-ID: <200601072046.17742.mark@phillipsmarketing.biz>

How do I set up a list so it is for announcements only?  The recipients can 
respond to the sender, but I don't want the recipients to be able to send to 
each other. I guess the senders' email address should be in the rely-to 
field, but the cc: field should be blank?

I read through the documentation at 
http://staff.imsa.edu/~ckolar/mailman/mailman-administration-v2.html, but 
since I am brand new at creating and running a list, I am not really sure how 
to make one of my lists announcement only.

Thanks!
-- 
Mark Phillips
Phillips Marketing, Inc
mark at phillipsmarketing.biz
602 524-0376
480 945-9197 fax


From cpz at tuunq.com  Sun Jan  8 05:59:38 2006
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 20:59:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need help setting up a list
In-Reply-To: <200601072046.17742.mark@phillipsmarketing.biz> from Mark Phillips
	at "Jan 7, 2006 08:46:17 pm"
Message-ID: <20060108045938.EC69D7AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Mark Phillips wrote:
> How do I set up a list so it is for announcements only?  The recipients can 

> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
          ^^^

Go to the FAQ, search for 'annouunce', read 3.11...

About replies, just configure the list set as 'reply to sender' not
'reply to list'.

In general, you should take some time to look at -all- the config
pages for your new list. You'll find all sorts of interestin things, and
most of them have help available.

z!


From stig at 8620.dk  Sun Jan  8 07:54:53 2006
From: stig at 8620.dk (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Stig_N=F8rgaard_F=E6rch?=)
Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 07:54:53 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is Mailman3 still being developed?
In-Reply-To: <43C0086E.9010308@8620.dk>
References: <43C0086E.9010308@8620.dk>
Message-ID: <43C0B73D.9090108@8620.dk>

Stig N?rgaard F?rch wrote:

> I was wondering if Mailman3 still is being developed?
> The mailing list for MM3 seems pretty dead.
>
> Also - are there any good alternatives to Mainman which have native 
> support for lists with the same listname but on different domains 
> (like one at domain.com and one at domain2.com).
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> /Stig




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Jan  8 08:12:59 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 01:12:59 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is Mailman3 still being developed?
In-Reply-To: <43C0B73D.9090108@8620.dk>
References: <43C0086E.9010308@8620.dk> <43C0B73D.9090108@8620.dk>
Message-ID: <p06200709bfe66baefcc7@[10.33.183.210]>

At 7:54 AM +0100 2006-01-08, Stig N?rgaard F?rch wrote:

>>  I was wondering if Mailman3 still is being developed?
>>  The mailing list for MM3 seems pretty dead.

	There hasn't been much list activity lately, but the package is 
definitely still being developed.  You should ask this question on 
the mm3 list, and hopefully that will kick off some activity.  ;)

>>  Also - are there any good alternatives to Mainman which have native
>>  support for lists with the same listname but on different domains
>>  (like one at domain.com and one at domain2.com).

	I'm not personally aware of anything that handles this kind of 
thing better than Mailman, but please let us know if you find 
anything.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jan  8 08:48:35 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 23:48:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Send a rejection message when a message is too
	big
In-Reply-To: <002e01c613f1$cfe62390$6500a8c0@MILO>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601072348350250be44d5dd@msapiro>

Jon-Arne Storelv wrote:

>Is there any possibility to send a rejection message when a message is
>bigger than the max_message_size?

Currently Mailman only holds these messages. Automatically rejecting
them requires patching Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py. If you wish to do
this, see the thread that begins at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-December/048070.html>.
This outlines the required patch for messages with implicit
destination, but the same ideas apply to messages that are too big.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in  Sun Jan  8 14:05:55 2006
From: nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in (Kabilan L)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 18:35:55 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Urgent Help on LDAP Member Adaptor
Message-ID: <20060108124148.M2766@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>

Hello!!!

I am trying to fix LDAP Member Adaptor V3.0 with my Mailman.I have Centos and
Openldap-2.2.13.2.I am trying do the same as said in this
http://webserver.offal.homelinux.org/LDAPMemberAdaptor/V3.0/LDAPMemberAdaptor/ 
website.ie i have done the following

Copied LDAPMemberships.py to /usr/local/mailman/Mailman, I didn't edit this
file.Is it ok? Now created a list and put the extend.py like this

from Mailman.LDAPMemberships import LDAPMemberships

def extend(list):
    ldap = LDAPMemberships(list)
    ldap.ldapsearch = "(uid=recipient)"   # your LDAP search here
    ldap.ldapserver = "127.0.0.1"  # your LDAP server
    ldap.ldapbasedn = "dc=domain dc=com" # your base DN
    ldap.ldapbinddn = 'cn=Manager,dc=domain,dc=com'                 # bind DN
that can access 'mail' field
    ldap.ldappasswd = 'secret'                 # bind password for ldapbinddn

    ldap.LDAP_URL = "ldap://127.0.0.1:389/"
    ldap.LDAP_MAIL_ATTRS = ("mail",)
    ldap.LDAP_LOCALDOMAIN = "sbc.ac.uk" -----> MY Sever name sts.domain.com
    ldap.LDAP_REALNAME_ATTR = "cn"
    ldap.LDAP_MAILMEMBER_ATTRS = ("rfc822MailMember",)
    ldap.LDAP_MEMBER_ATTRS = ("uniqueMember","memberUID")
    ldap.LDAP_OWNER_ATTR = "owner"
    ldap.LDAP_LIST_RDN_ATTR = "cn"
    ldap.LDAP_LIST_CLASSFILTER =
"(|(objectclass=groupOfUniqueNames)(objectclass=nisMailAlias)(objectclass=groupOfNames))"
#    ldap.LDAP_BASE = "ou=groups,dc=sbirmc,dc=ac,dc=uk"
    ldap.LDAP_BASE = "ou=Group,dc=domain,dc=com"
#    list._memberadaptor = ldap

I don't know what is list._memberadaptor because when i leave this unhashed
i unable to see the lists membership managent via webpage,so i hasehed it.when
i send an mail to group it reaches the archives but not to the member
Inbox.Please help me fixing it.Tell how to do it?What i have to do with
extend.py. 
Thanking You ALL

Kabilan.L
Department of Electrical Engineering
IIT Madras
Chennai - 600 036
Tamil Nadu, INDIA


"The secret to winning football games is working more as a team, less as
individuals. I play not my 11 best, but my best 11." ->Knute Rockne



From kd5de at nwla.com  Sun Jan  8 14:50:36 2006
From: kd5de at nwla.com (Mel Sojka)
Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 07:50:36 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with 2.1.7
Message-ID: <43C118AC.4000204@nwla.com>

I just a few minutes ago finished upgrading from 2.1.6 to 2.1.7. 
Everything went fine mail coming in and being posted but not being sent 
out. I added a new user one on my other ads an it is not sending out 
susbscription notifies. 2.1.6 was working fine and never had this sort 
of problem with mailman all the way back to the 1 versions?? What did I 
miss. Using sendmail configured it proper mail-gid and cgi-gid. What the 
deal? Point me to the faq or whatever.
                                                                         
                                                               Mel

-- 
System Janitor/Network Plumber http://www.nwla.com
Linux User #25446    Linux 2.6.14



From john at wa9als.com  Sun Jan  8 15:33:38 2006
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 09:33:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need help setting up a list
References: <200601072046.17742.mark@phillipsmarketing.biz>
Message-ID: <003d01c61460$84bc0b90$6501a8c0@wa9als>

> How do I set up a list so it is for announcements only? 

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=all

FAQ 3.11




From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jan  8 17:39:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 08:39:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with 2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <43C118AC.4000204@nwla.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006010808394102962a3bbb91@msapiro>

Mel Sojka wrote:

>I just a few minutes ago finished upgrading from 2.1.6 to 2.1.7. 
>Everything went fine mail coming in and being posted but not being sent 
>out. I added a new user one on my other ads an it is not sending out 
>susbscription notifies. 2.1.6 was working fine and never had this sort 
>of problem with mailman all the way back to the 1 versions?? What did I 
>miss. Using sendmail configured it proper mail-gid and cgi-gid. What the 
>deal? Point me to the faq or whatever.

<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>

In particular, is OutgoingRunner running?

Check logs, particularly 'error', 'smtp' and 'smtp-failure'.

Check qfiles/* to see where the messages are (e.g., shunt, out, ?)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jan  8 17:52:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 08:52:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Urgent Help on LDAP Member Adaptor
In-Reply-To: <20060108124148.M2766@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601080852540953be44d8af@msapiro>

Kabilan L wrote:
>
>I am trying to fix LDAP Member Adaptor V3.0 with my Mailman.I have Centos and
>Openldap-2.2.13.2.I am trying do the same as said in this
>http://webserver.offal.homelinux.org/LDAPMemberAdaptor/V3.0/LDAPMemberAdaptor/ 
>website.ie i have done the following
>
>Copied LDAPMemberships.py to /usr/local/mailman/Mailman, I didn't edit this
>file.Is it ok? Now created a list and put the extend.py like this
>
>from Mailman.LDAPMemberships import LDAPMemberships
>
>def extend(list):
>    ldap = LDAPMemberships(list)
<snip>
>#    list._memberadaptor = ldap
>
>I don't know what is list._memberadaptor because when i leave this unhashed
>i unable to see the lists membership managent via webpage,so i hasehed it.


Which means you are not replacing the default OldStyleMemberships.py
MemberAdaptor for this list with LDAPMemberships. Thus you are not
getting members from the LDAP database so your list probably has no
members.


>when
>i send an mail to group it reaches the archives but not to the member
>Inbox.Please help me fixing it.Tell how to do it?What i have to do with
>extend.py. 


You have to have the

    list._memberadaptor = ldap

line uncommented (unhashed). Then you have to look at the 'error' log
and/or the result when you go to the membership management page and
figure out what isn't working and why. It probably has something to do
with the other settings in extend.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kd5de at nwla.com  Sun Jan  8 17:57:15 2006
From: kd5de at nwla.com (Mel Sojka)
Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 10:57:15 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with 2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006010808394102962a3bbb91@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006010808394102962a3bbb91@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43C1446B.4050009@nwla.com>

Well I really don't know what happened. I think I am going to clean out 
the crontab entry dump the mailman directory and start from scratch. 
Never eveh had this sort of thing sendmail says it sending the post but 
they are going nowhere. It won't even notify the owner on newlist. I 
have six server running 2.1.5 and this one was running 2.1.6 but I need 
to get out all traces and go again, the box will not go into production 
as scheduled but such is life. Thanks Mark but the FAQ is a bit out of 
date Since it has been many years since mailman had anything in the 
/home directory that had to do with the program.
FYI Slackware 10.2
Sendmail 8.13.4 no smrsh

-- 
System Janitor/Network Plumber http://www.nwla.com
Linux User #25446    Linux 2.6.14



From michael at michaelshiloh.com  Mon Jan  9 07:06:22 2006
From: michael at michaelshiloh.com (michael at michaelshiloh.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 22:06:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List created on localhost;
 now configuration has "localhost" instead of real domain name
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0601082201011.13720@mail.magrittesystems.com>

Hello,

I've have mailman running on my linux redhat 8.0 setup for a couple of
years now. Today I added a new list, and for some reason I used the web
interface instead of the commands, as I have in the past.

My workstation is my web server, so in order to reach the mailman web
interface I had to browse to "http://localhost/...".

Perhaps due to this, if I visit my list web page from another domain, I
can't reach various pages, because they list the domain as "localhost"
instead of the real domain.

Is there a nice way to fix this? Or perhaps I should just remove the
list, then set it up again from a different domain (I have a couple at
home, so this is not too hard to do)?

Thanks,
Michael


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jan  9 03:08:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 18:08:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List created on localhost;
	now configuration has "localhost" instead of real domain name
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0601082201011.13720@mail.magrittesystems.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601081808010879ccc69c50@msapiro>

michael at michaelshiloh.com wrote:
>
>My workstation is my web server, so in order to reach the mailman web
>interface I had to browse to "http://localhost/...".
>
>Perhaps due to this, if I visit my list web page from another domain, I
>can't reach various pages, because they list the domain as "localhost"
>instead of the real domain.
>
>Is there a nice way to fix this? Or perhaps I should just remove the
>list, then set it up again from a different domain (I have a couple at
>home, so this is not too hard to do)?

Run bin/fix_url.py stand alone for instructions on how to use it to fix
this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From michael at michaelshiloh.com  Mon Jan  9 09:05:43 2006
From: michael at michaelshiloh.com (michael at michaelshiloh.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 00:05:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List created on localhost;
 now configuration has "localhost" instead of real domain name
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601081808010879ccc69c50@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200601081808010879ccc69c50@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0601090005310.13720@mail.magrittesystems.com>



On Sun, 8 Jan 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> michael at michaelshiloh.com wrote:
>>
>> My workstation is my web server, so in order to reach the mailman web
>> interface I had to browse to "http://localhost/...".
>>
>> Perhaps due to this, if I visit my list web page from another domain, I
>> can't reach various pages, because they list the domain as "localhost"
>> instead of the real domain.
>>
>> Is there a nice way to fix this? Or perhaps I should just remove the
>> list, then set it up again from a different domain (I have a couple at
>> home, so this is not too hard to do)?
>
> Run bin/fix_url.py stand alone for instructions on how to use it to fix
> this.
>
That's it - thanks!


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jan  9 06:58:40 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 23:58:40 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with 2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <43C1446B.4050009@nwla.com>
References: <PC17402006010808394102962a3bbb91@msapiro>
	<43C1446B.4050009@nwla.com>
Message-ID: <p0620070abfe7ab55b0f0@[10.33.183.210]>

At 10:57 AM -0600 2006-01-08, Mel Sojka wrote:

>                                  Thanks Mark but the FAQ is a bit out of
>  date Since it has been many years since mailman had anything in the
>  /home directory that had to do with the program.

	The point of the examples used is to show you what they might 
look like -- the default standard location as we ship the code is 
/usr/local/mailman, but I know that a lot of package managers will 
install it somewhere else.


	It doesn't really matter where it's installed, what matters is 
the overall kinds of things you could expect to see there, and the 
overall processes you go through to try to debug the problems, and 
with regards to those two areas nothing has changed since Mailman 
2.0.x.

	As such, it's not really appropriate to take Mark to task for not 
keeping the FAQ up-to-date, since there's not really much of anything 
that needs to be updated in that area.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From munzirtaha at gmail.com  Mon Jan  9 15:24:10 2006
From: munzirtaha at gmail.com (Munzir Taha)
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 17:24:10 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 461 Too many unknown users from your host
Message-ID: <200601091724.16413.munzirtaha@gmail.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi Sirs,
My mailing list sends me lots of "Bounce action notification" messages. Each 
messge has lots of emails that have permanent fatal errors

First, why one notification cotains lots of emails? Do mailman group many 
bounces in one message or what? Any doc to explain this?

Second, one of the errors I got is:

>>> DATA
<<< 461 Too many unknown users from your host. Possibly an open relay. Address 
added to blacklist. If you think this is not correct please contact 
blocked at gawab.biz and don't forget to include your network address and time 
of seeing this message (#4.3.1)
<someone at gawab.com>... Deferred: 461 Too many unknown users from your host. 
Possibly an open relay. Address added to blacklist. If you think this is not 
correct please contact blocked at gawab.biz and don't forget to include your 
network address and time of seeing this message (#4.3.1)
451 4.4.1 reply: read error from mx2.gawab.com.

I tested my server very well and it's not an open relay so is this still a 
problem I can fix? As far as I understand no user would get subscribed if he 
has no valid email. Which means all those unknown users are used to be known 
at one point of time until something happened. So, what?

- -- 
Munzir Taha
Telecommunications and Electronics Engineer
Maintainer of Fedora Arabic Translation Project
https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-ar
Maintainer of the OpenBugs project page at
http://www.arabic-fedora.org/munzir/OpenBugs.html
Master CIW Designer, ICDL, MOUS, Linux+, LPI 101
Riyadh, SA
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFDwnIQOBlicvBnGCERAm/XAJ9OY9FSpEZ/0yzAfvRUXiWPWR3uOgCeJhUn
/DzQpxkTojoP7bvEzydOgL8=
=PB5Y
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From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jan  9 17:46:44 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 08:46:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 461 Too many unknown users from your host
In-Reply-To: <200601091724.16413.munzirtaha@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060109084644012582597189@msapiro>

Munzir Taha wrote:

>My mailing list sends me lots of "Bounce action notification" messages. Each 
>messge has lots of emails that have permanent fatal errors
>
>First, why one notification cotains lots of emails? Do mailman group many 
>bounces in one message or what? Any doc to explain this?


Mailman doesn't group bounces, but it does group outgoing mail that
isn't VERPed or personalized. Thus, Mailman is sending one message to
many recipients in the same domain. The receiving MTA may thus reply
with one bounce message for all the undeliverable addressees in that
domain. Also, Your outgoing MTA may by sending a single DSN covering
all the undeliverable addresses in finds in one message.


>Second, one of the errors I got is:
>
>>>> DATA
><<< 461 Too many unknown users from your host. Possibly an open relay. Address 
>added to blacklist. If you think this is not correct please contact 
>blocked at gawab.biz and don't forget to include your network address and time 
>of seeing this message (#4.3.1)
><someone at gawab.com>... Deferred: 461 Too many unknown users from your host. 
>Possibly an open relay. Address added to blacklist. If you think this is not 
>correct please contact blocked at gawab.biz and don't forget to include your 
>network address and time of seeing this message (#4.3.1)
>451 4.4.1 reply: read error from mx2.gawab.com.
>
>I tested my server very well and it's not an open relay so is this still a 
>problem I can fix?


You have two problems. First, you have a number of bad addresses in the
gawab.com domain on your list and you have to stop trying to send to
them. Either unsubscribe them or disable delivery to them - also,
maybe set bounce processing so it is more agressive about disabling
bouncing users.

Second, because of your sending to unknown users at gawab.com, that
domain is now blocking all mail from you. You need to contact them
about removing the block.


>As far as I understand no user would get subscribed if he 
>has no valid email. Which means all those unknown users are used to be known 
>at one point of time until something happened. So, what?


If subscription to your list requires confirmation, then a user at an
address must be capable of receiving mail at that address in order to
subscribe in the first place, but such an address can later become
invalid. Also, there is no check on admin Mass Subscriptions. You can
subscribe any syntactically valid address via mass subscribe without
any check that it is actually deliverable.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From michael at michaelshiloh.com  Mon Jan  9 23:34:19 2006
From: michael at michaelshiloh.com (michael at michaelshiloh.com)
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 14:34:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTA (postfix) and web server (apache2) on different
 machines - how to configure mailman?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0601091424380.4083@mail.magrittesystems.com>

I have an odd situation and it's making my head heard just trying to
explain it to you.

I have two (Linux) machines behind a NATing firewall. One machine (Miro) 
is my web server, and the other (Marien) is my mail machine.

The NATing firewall directs all http traffic to Miro, and all mail 
traffic to Marien.

Miro runs apache2 and sendmail. Marien runs postfix. Both serve multiple
virtual domains: Miro serves the virtual websites and Marine serves the
virtual email addresses.

I have mailman running on Miro, and I can use it locally, and I can even
manipulate and control the mailing lists from outside my domain via the
web interface.

The trouble is as soon as I send email to the mailman system, it goes to
Marien, which doesn't know what to do with it.

Is there a reasonable solution to my problem?

Long term, I'd like to move my web server to marien, so if the solution
is very complicated, I might just wait until after the move.

I haven't tried this yet, but it might be simple to create aliases on
marien to direct all mailman traffic to miro.

Any ideas and suggestions welcome.

Michael


From monurergin at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  9 23:23:32 2006
From: monurergin at yahoo.com (M. Onur ERGiN)
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 14:23:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] falling back to login screen (repeat)
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006010608465301096e215422@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060109222332.65427.qmail@web30307.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

nah, everything goes worse.. I have updated to 2.1.7 and now it does not even deliver the messages..
 
 Anyway,
 Another interesting detail that I noticed is; when I click on Logout, and then try to login, it does not authenticates me directly, and I can enter the web interface after a second login. After that, as i have described before, each click requires re-login. 
 
 Anyone having idea??

Onur.

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote: M. Onur ERGiN wrote:
>
>Another detail that may be useful is; one day my web server crashed, an it took some time to find out the problem. It was related to mod_mime_magic module. In the httpd.conf, there were a line: MIMEMagicFile /etc/httpd/conf/magic . This line was preventing me from starting the http service. and its status was :  httpd stopped but subsys locked!
>
>When I changed that line to "MimeMagicFile /etc/httpd/conf/magic " (MIME --> Mime) I could be able to start the web service, and it is now working fine. Can the problem be somehow related to mod_mime_magic ?? (I suppose, it shouldn't be)

Two things here. Apache directive names (as opposed to arguments) are
case-insensitive, so your change above shouldn't make any difference.
And, assuming /etc/httpd/conf/magic is the default, I don't think this
could be involved.

If this were my problem, I would run a packet sniffer on the host and
make sure that the cookie is being properly returned in the GET and
POST requests.

Or I might start by modifying Mailman/Cgi/admin.py to log some
additional debugging information - in particular,
os.environ.get('HTTP_COOKIE').

-- 
Mark Sapiro        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




		
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Photos ? Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover
 Photo Books. You design it and we?ll bind it!

From sgarcia at bak.rr.com  Mon Jan  9 23:58:34 2006
From: sgarcia at bak.rr.com (Steve Garcia)
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 14:58:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some questions on moderation
Message-ID: <43C2EA9A.3050907@bak.rr.com>

Hi,

I'm new to Mailman, and it seems like there have been changes in how
moderation works since the documentation was written.

I want my lists to be moderated -- actually, I want them to be announce
only lists.  The documentation indicates a setting "Must posts be
approved by an administrator?"  However, I haven't found any such
setting in the web interface.  I *have* found an "Emergency moderation"
setting which looks like it might do the same thing, but the name makes
me a little concerned.  Is there a downside to using "emergency
moderation" to making a list moderated?  Is there a more straightforward
way to do it?

Also, I would like to set up a separate moderator.  How do I give that
moderator access?  I have defined the moderator's email address and I
have defined a moderator's password, but I have no idea how the
moderator logs in to approve requests.  I've tried going in through the
regular "List Administrator" page, but it doesn't accept the moderator's
password here.  How is this accessed?

Thanks!
Steve Garcia


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan 10 01:49:35 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:49:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some questions on moderation
In-Reply-To: <43C2EA9A.3050907@bak.rr.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601091649350328ca21ff8b@msapiro>

Steve Garcia 
>
>I want my lists to be moderated -- actually, I want them to be announce
>only lists.  The documentation indicates a setting "Must posts be
>approved by an administrator?"  However, I haven't found any such
>setting in the web interface.  I *have* found an "Emergency moderation"
>setting which looks like it might do the same thing, but the name makes
>me a little concerned.  Is there a downside to using "emergency
>moderation" to making a list moderated?


Yes, moderators aren't notified of 'emergency moderation' messages
pending.


>Is there a more straightforward
>way to do it?


The settings you want are Privacy options...->Sender
filters->default_member_moderation (yes to make all new members
moderated) and  "Set everyone's moderation bit, including those
members not currently visible" under Additional Member Tasks on the
Membership Management...->Membership List page to set current members
to 'moderated'.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp>
for much more on setting up announce lists. 

>Also, I would like to set up a separate moderator.  How do I give that
>moderator access?


Tell her the password.


>I have defined the moderator's email address and I
>have defined a moderator's password, but I have no idea how the
>moderator logs in to approve requests.  I've tried going in through the
>regular "List Administrator" page, but it doesn't accept the moderator's
>password here.  How is this accessed?


The moderators interface is the 'admindb' page. This is the "Tend to
pending moderator requests" link on the admin pages (which you can't
get to with the moderator password). The URL (link) is also included
in the email sent to admins and moderators about pending requests.

It is of the form <http://www.example.com/mailman/admindb/LIST_NAME>.

 See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.045.htp>
and
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.060.htp>
for more on the distinction between owners and moderators.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From qgil at desdeamericaconamor.org  Mon Jan  9 00:55:11 2006
From: qgil at desdeamericaconamor.org (Quim Gil)
Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 00:55:11 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Link from list info pages to MHonArc archives
Message-ID: <43C1A65F.4000903@desdeamericaconamor.org>

We have a small but annoying problem at http//mail.gnome.org

If you go to any list info page, the link to "Go to [list] archives"

links to http://mail.gnome.org/archives/

instead of http://mail.gnome.org/archives/[list]

making users find manually the list, and we have lots.


We are using MHonArc for the archiving. Any hint of what is wrong and
how can be fixed?

More:

Bug 172780 ? Links to mail archives are not correct
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=172780

Thank you.

-- 
Quim Gil - http://desdeamericaconamor.org

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From ibarra_sp at yahoo.com.br  Tue Jan 10 15:49:13 2006
From: ibarra_sp at yahoo.com.br (Daniel Ibarra)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:49:13 -0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Management log
Message-ID: <020001c615f5$0a2b79b0$85ec1209@dibarra>

Hello,

I would like to know if theres a log with the actions of the moderatores of the list since the list was made active.

I need to trace an action of my moderators on my list and i dont know where to do it.

Thank you

Daniel

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan 10 17:15:55 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:15:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Link from list info pages to MHonArc archives
In-Reply-To: <43C1A65F.4000903@desdeamericaconamor.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006011008155500463b464945@msapiro>

Quim Gil wrote:
>
>If you go to any list info page, the link to "Go to [list] archives"
>
>links to http://mail.gnome.org/archives/
>
>instead of http://mail.gnome.org/archives/[list]
>
>making users find manually the list, and we have lots.

It appears these are public archives. Thus, this URL is generated from
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL which is
'http://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s' by default.

It looks like in your case, you have

PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'http://%(hostname)s/archives/
or
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'http://%(hostname)s/archives

instead of

PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'http://%(hostname)s/archives/%(listname)s'

im mm_cfg.py

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From root at home.mbg.it  Tue Jan 10 17:04:24 2006
From: root at home.mbg.it (root)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 17:04:24 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail from GioMBG > /usr/lib/mailman/cron/crontab.in
Message-ID: <200601101704.24705.root@home.mbg.it>

I Man!
Kindly to have one help only.

My mailman go very well but I have only a little problem:

Every 5 minutes I receive to admin list an e mail with the message:
/bin/sh: mailman: command not found

I think is because I haven't any gate news so:
I've comment this line in:

/usr/lib/mailman/cron/crontab.in

# Every 5 mins, try to gate news to mail. ?You can comment this one out
# if you don't want to allow gating, or don't have any going on right now,
# or want to exclusively use a callback strategy instead of polling.
# 0,5,10,15,20,25,30,35,40,45,50,55 * * * * 

I've restart mailman daemon and check that 
/etc/cron.d/mailman 
is succesfull edited after

But I have a new e mail every 5 minutes so long... :(
What I can to do?

MANY THANKs
GioMBG
-- 
Gio "MBG" Canepa - E mail: server at home.mbg.it
Phone Fax +39 0541 985 737 Mobile +39 393 33 567 07
http://www.home.mbg.it | http://www.GioMBG.com
Snail mail P.O. Box 59 47854 Riccione (RN) Italy


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan 10 17:25:34 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:25:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Management log
In-Reply-To: <020001c615f5$0a2b79b0$85ec1209@dibarra>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601100825340140f111f7ee@msapiro>

Daniel Ibarra wrote:
>
>I would like to know if theres a log with the actions of the moderatores of the list since the list was made active.
>
>I need to trace an action of my moderators on my list and i dont know where to do it.

Look at Mailman's 'vette' log. It logs held messages and actions taken
on them. If subscription requires owner approval, a held subscription
request will be in the 'vette' log, but the approval will be in the
'subscribe' log.

If your mailman was installed from a package, the logs may be rotated
and may not go back more that a few weeks. Even if installed from
source, someone may have set up log rotation.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan 10 17:46:35 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:46:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail from GioMBG >
	/usr/lib/mailman/cron/crontab.in
In-Reply-To: <200601101704.24705.root@home.mbg.it>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601100846350421f111f908@msapiro>

root wrote:
>
>Every 5 minutes I receive to admin list an e mail with the message:
>/bin/sh: mailman: command not found


It looks like you have a crontab in the wrong place. Normal, per user,
crontab entries are:

minute hour day_of_month month day_of_week command

Crontab entries in /etc/cron.d have an additional username field to
specify the user under which to run the command

minute hour day_of_month month day_of_week username command

If you have a crontab with entries like

0,5,10,15,20,25,30,35,40,45,50,55 * * * * mailman /usr/bin/python -S
/cygdrive/f/test-mailman/cron/gate_news

and you install this with the crontab command, cron will attempt to
execute the command

mailman /usr/bin/python -S /cygdrive/f/test-mailman/cron/gate_news

instead of executing

/usr/bin/python -S /cygdrive/f/test-mailman/cron/gate_news

as user mailman.


>I think is because I haven't any gate news so:
>I've comment this line in:
>
>/usr/lib/mailman/cron/crontab.in
>
># Every 5 mins, try to gate news to mail. =A0You can comment this one out
># if you don't want to allow gating, or don't have any going on right now,
># or want to exclusively use a callback strategy instead of polling.
># 0,5,10,15,20,25,30,35,40,45,50,55 * * * * =
>
>
>I've restart mailman daemon and check that =
>
>/etc/cron.d/mailman =
>
>is succesfull edited after

Do you perhaps have two crontabs running in parallel? One in
/etc/cron.d/mailman and one installed by crontab in (perhaps)
/var/spool/cron/mailman. You definitely want one or the other, but not
both.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From imacat at mail.imacat.idv.tw  Tue Jan 10 19:41:44 2006
From: imacat at mail.imacat.idv.tw (imacat)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 02:41:44 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unexpected code byte in Header.py
Message-ID: <20060111024135.AB9F.IMACAT@mail.imacat.idv.tw>

Dear all,

    I have problem upgrading my Mailman 2.1.5 to Mailman 2.1.7.  I got
the following error in /var/lib/mailman/logs/error when I tried to send
the "who" request:

Jan 11 02:33:06 2006 (12256) Uncaught runner exception: 'utf8' codec
can't decode byte 0xb4 in position 8: unexpected code byte
Jan 11 02:33:06 2006 (12256) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Queue/VirginRunner.py", line 38, in _dispose
    return IncomingRunner._dispose(self, mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 188, in process
    i18ndesc = uheader(mlist, mlist.description, 'List-Id', maxlinelen=998)
  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 65, in uheader
    return Header(s, charset, maxlinelen, header_name, continuation_ws)
  File "/opt/mailman/pythonlib/email/Header.py", line 188, in __init__
    self.append(s, charset, errors)
  File "/opt/mailman/pythonlib/email/Header.py", line 272, in append
    ustr = unicode(s, incodec, errors)
UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode byte 0xb4 in position 8: unexpected code byte

    The mail I sent is:

X-SMTP-Result: 250 2.0.0 k0AIX3a5012284 Message accepted for delivery
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 02:33:03 +0800
From: imacat <imacat at mail.imacat.idv.tw>
To: tmm-request at rinse.wov.idv.tw
Subject: who_
Message-Id: <20060111023256.AB99.IMACAT at mail.imacat.idv.tw>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.24.02 [en]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

who (somepassword)

    Anyone could help please?  Thank you

--
Best regards,
imacat ^_*' <imacat at mail.imacat.idv.tw>
PGP Key: http://www.imacat.idv.tw/me/pgpkey.txt

<<Woman's Voice>> News: http://www.wov.idv.tw/
Tavern IMACAT's: http://www.imacat.idv.tw/
TLUG List Manager: http://lists.linux.org.tw/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tlug
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From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan 10 21:27:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:27:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unexpected code byte in Header.py
In-Reply-To: <20060111024135.AB9F.IMACAT@mail.imacat.idv.tw>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601101227430296ed64d4f3@msapiro>

imacat wrote:
>
>    I have problem upgrading my Mailman 2.1.5 to Mailman 2.1.7.  I got
>the following error in /var/lib/mailman/logs/error when I tried to send
>the "who" request:
>
>Jan 11 02:33:06 2006 (12256) Uncaught runner exception: 'utf8' codec
>can't decode byte 0xb4 in position 8: unexpected code byte
>Jan 11 02:33:06 2006 (12256) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Queue/VirginRunner.py", line 38, in _dispose
>    return IncomingRunner._dispose(self, mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
>    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline
>    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 188, in process
>    i18ndesc = uheader(mlist, mlist.description, 'List-Id', maxlinelen=998)
>  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 65, in uheader
>    return Header(s, charset, maxlinelen, header_name, continuation_ws)
>  File "/opt/mailman/pythonlib/email/Header.py", line 188, in __init__
>    self.append(s, charset, errors)
>  File "/opt/mailman/pythonlib/email/Header.py", line 272, in append
>    ustr = unicode(s, incodec, errors)
>UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode byte 0xb4 in position 8: unexpected code byte
>
>    The mail I sent is:
>

The trace indicates this has nothing to do with the message you sent or
that it was a who request.

The error occurs in the attempt to add the RFC 2369 List-Id: header to
the response message. It seems the error will occur any time Mailman
sends anything for this list.

The problem is in processing the 'description' for the list. Some of
the logic involved changed between 2.1.5 and 2.1.6.

Check the list description on the General Options page for non-ascii
(an acute accent in position 8?), although it is not clear to me why
this would cause the error as the code seems to test for non-ascii and
use iso-8859-1 encoding if there is any non-ascii.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From chris at westnet.com  Tue Jan 10 22:06:33 2006
From: chris at westnet.com (Christopher X. Candreva)
Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 16:06:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in 2.1.7,
	can't edit Public HTML pages & text files
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.62.0601101602490.23679@westnet.com>


Mailman is telling me there is a bug whenever I try to submit a page from 
the "Edit the public HTML pages and text files" menu. The page returned 
says:

Bug in Mailman version 2.1.7

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of 
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but 
the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. 

The most usefull thing I've found in the logs is:

Jan 10 15:52:55 2006 admin(6592): 
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(6592): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.7 -----]
admin(6592): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(6592): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(6592):   File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in run_main
admin(6592):     main()
admin(6592):   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/edithtml.py", line 125, in 
main
admin(6592):     ChangeHTML(mlist, cgidata, template_name, doc)
admin(6592):   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/edithtml.py", line 160, in 
ChangeHTML
admin(6592):     code = re.sub(r'<([/]?script.*?)>', r'&lt;\1&gt;', code)
admin(6592): NameError: global name 're' is not defined
admin(6592): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(6592): sys.version     =   2.4.2 (#1, Nov 11 2005, 14:28:34)
[GCC 3.4.4]

I would be surprised if I was the only person to try to submit a changed 
HTML/text page in 2.1.7, but I suppose it's possible. However I haven't 
found anything in a search, and check_perms tells me everything is OK.

Have I done something stupid, or is it a real bug and I should open a bug 
report ?

-Chris


==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/


From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Tue Jan 10 22:02:59 2006
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 06:02:59 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unexpected code byte in Header.py
In-Reply-To: <20060111024135.AB9F.IMACAT@mail.imacat.idv.tw>
References: <20060111024135.AB9F.IMACAT@mail.imacat.idv.tw>
Message-ID: <43C42103.6060707@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

imacat wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
>     I have problem upgrading my Mailman 2.1.5 to Mailman 2.1.7.  I got
> the following error in /var/lib/mailman/logs/error when I tried to send
> the "who" request:
> 
> Jan 11 02:33:06 2006 (12256) Uncaught runner exception: 'utf8' codec
> can't decode byte 0xb4 in position 8: unexpected code byte
> Jan 11 02:33:06 2006 (12256) Traceback (most recent call last):

>   File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 188, in process
>     i18ndesc = uheader(mlist, mlist.description, 'List-Id', maxlinelen=998)
>   File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 65, in uheader
>     return Header(s, charset, maxlinelen, header_name, continuation_ws)
>   File "/opt/mailman/pythonlib/email/Header.py", line 188, in __init__
>     self.append(s, charset, errors)
>   File "/opt/mailman/pythonlib/email/Header.py", line 272, in append
>     ustr = unicode(s, incodec, errors)
> UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode byte 0xb4 in position 8: unexpected code byte

As Mark has responded, it is a error in CookHeaders.py 'List-Id' 
processing.  The language code and charset for 'Traditional Chinese' 
have changes from big5/big5 to zh_TW/utf-8 because of compliance and 
code handling difficulty in python gettext.  If you have set description 
in chinese previously by mailman-2.1.5, then you may have to reset it 
via the admin interface or by bin/withlist script.

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/


From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Tue Jan 10 22:28:47 2006
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 06:28:47 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in 2.1.7,
 can't edit Public HTML pages & text files
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.62.0601101602490.23679@westnet.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.62.0601101602490.23679@westnet.com>
Message-ID: <43C4270F.5090109@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Christopher X. Candreva wrote:
> Mailman is telling me there is a bug whenever I try to submit a page from 
> the "Edit the public HTML pages and text files" menu. The page returned 
> says:
> 
> Bug in Mailman version 2.1.7
> 
> We're sorry, we hit a bug!
> 
> Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of 
> traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but 
> the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. 
> 
> The most usefull thing I've found in the logs is:
> 
> Jan 10 15:52:55 2006 admin(6592): 
> @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> admin(6592): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.7 -----]
> admin(6592): [----- Traceback ------]
> admin(6592): Traceback (most recent call last):
> admin(6592):   File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in run_main
> admin(6592):     main()
> admin(6592):   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/edithtml.py", line 125, in 
> main
> admin(6592):     ChangeHTML(mlist, cgidata, template_name, doc)
> admin(6592):   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/edithtml.py", line 160, in 
> ChangeHTML
> admin(6592):     code = re.sub(r'<([/]?script.*?)>', r'&lt;\1&gt;', code)
> admin(6592): NameError: global name 're' is not defined
> admin(6592): [----- Python Information -----]
> admin(6592): sys.version     =   2.4.2 (#1, Nov 11 2005, 14:28:34)
> [GCC 3.4.4]
> 
> I would be surprised if I was the only person to try to submit a changed 
> HTML/text page in 2.1.7, but I suppose it's possible. However I haven't 
> found anything in a search, and check_perms tells me everything is OK.
> 
> Have I done something stupid, or is it a real bug and I should open a bug 
> report ?
> 
Sorry for the inconvenience but I've put a new bug in the code while 
tighten up the security of the script.  Work around is to put a line

import re

in the top part of the Mailman/Cgi/edithtml.py.

The bug was reported in
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1400128&group_id=103&atid=100103


-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/


From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Wed Jan 11 06:16:39 2006
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 00:16:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mhonarc patch 2.1.6  and mailman 2.1.7
Message-ID: <43C494B7.7070803@wingfoot.org>

Hey everyone! Have a bit of a problem happening, and I'm hoping it's an
easy fix...

I went to set up the mhonarc patch with mailman 2.1.7 tonight.

I know, I know.. different versions (2.1.6 patch for mhonarc versus
mailman 2.1.7), so I'm taking my life in my hands.. but it seemed to
apply cleanly (though I had to hack the templates/Makefile so that it
didn't install the *.mrc files, and manually copied them from en/ to
$prefix/mailman/templates/en/ :) )

Anywho.. I untarred the mailman-2.1.7.tgz file, in a fresh directory,
and after applying the patches, in order:

indexing
htdig
modinc
mhonarc
(all the latest from Richard's website, though, in modinc's case, I
modified DATA_FILE_VERSION = 95.1 to be 96.1 to keep with what I assumed
was the scheme happening.)

And after ./configure && make && make install && cp templates/en/*.mrc
/usr/local/mailman/templates/en/. , I put the following in mm_cfg.py,
which is all I could glean needed to be done for this patch:

#######################################
## Change for MHonArc 1/11/06
#######################################
# Which archiver to use by default to generate archive pages:
# 0 - pipermail
# 1 - mhonarc
DEFAULT_WHICH_ARCHIVER = 1
MHONARC_ARCHIVER_PATH = '/usr/local/bin/mhonarc'


When I try to do bin/arch --wipe a-test-listname, I get:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./arch", line 202, in ?
    main()
  File "./arch", line 166, in main
    mlist.archiver_when_wiped = mlist.which_archiver
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 146, in __getattr__
    raise AttributeError, name
AttributeError: which_archiver

I tried changing back to DEFAULT_WHICH_ARCHVER = 0 with no different
results..

And, just in case you wonder:
$ which mhonarc
/usr/local/bin/mhonarc

I'm running Apache 2.0.55 on FreeBSD 4.11-RELEASE, Postfix 2.2.8,
mailman 2.1.7, mhonarc 2.6.15, perl 5.8.7

Any help would be muchly appreciated!

And, an aside to Richard, who donates his time and resources to
providing these patches:

Thanks so much for all of your work on these patches, Richard!
Seriously--they make Mailman all the better!

Best,
--Glenn

-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
          ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759


From chris at westnet.com  Wed Jan 11 16:39:36 2006
From: chris at westnet.com (Christopher X. Candreva)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:39:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug in 2.1.7,
 can't edit Public HTML pages & text files
In-Reply-To: <43C4270F.5090109@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.62.0601101602490.23679@westnet.com>
	<43C4270F.5090109@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.62.0601111039050.22664@westnet.com>

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006, Tokio Kikuchi wrote:

> Sorry for the inconvenience but I've put a new bug in the code while tighten
> up the security of the script.  Work around is to put a line
> 
> import re
> 
> in the top part of the Mailman/Cgi/edithtml.py.
> 
> The bug was reported in
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1400128&group_id=103&atid=100103

Thanks, sorry I missed the existing bug. I really did check !

==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/


From imacat at mail.imacat.idv.tw  Wed Jan 11 16:49:17 2006
From: imacat at mail.imacat.idv.tw (imacat)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 23:49:17 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unexpected code byte in Header.py
In-Reply-To: <43C42103.6060707@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <20060111024135.AB9F.IMACAT@mail.imacat.idv.tw>
	<43C42103.6060707@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20060111234900.370D.IMACAT@mail.imacat.idv.tw>

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 06:02:59 +0900
Tokio Kikuchi <tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp> wrote:
> >   File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 188, in process
> >     i18ndesc = uheader(mlist, mlist.description, 'List-Id', maxlinelen=998)
> > UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode byte 0xb4 in position 8: unexpected code byte
> 
> As Mark has responded, it is a error in CookHeaders.py 'List-Id' 
> processing.  The language code and charset for 'Traditional Chinese' 
> have changes from big5/big5 to zh_TW/utf-8 because of compliance and 
> code handling difficulty in python gettext.  If you have set description 

    Oh... :p  I see now.  I don't know why somehow I missed the error
message.  Maybe I was just too tired.

    The problem seems to be solved after changing them.  Thank you.

--
Best regards,
imacat ^_*' <imacat at mail.imacat.idv.tw>
PGP Key: http://www.imacat.idv.tw/me/pgpkey.txt

<<Woman's Voice>> News: http://www.wov.idv.tw/
Tavern IMACAT's: http://www.imacat.idv.tw/
TLUG List Manager: http://lists.linux.org.tw/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tlug
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From benson at music.mcgill.ca  Wed Jan 11 18:34:12 2006
From: benson at music.mcgill.ca (David Benson)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 12:34:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creating a list of moderators
Message-ID: <200601111734.k0BHYCXS016095@mailscan2.cc.mcgill.ca>

Hi,
 
I'm a site administrator and I'd like to be able to send messages out to all
of my moderators at once.  Does the current version of Mailman have
functionality to do this, i.e. can it automatically generate a 'list' of
moderators? ...or will I have to write my own code to make it happen?
 
Any ideas?
 
Many thanks!
 

Dave Benson


From rme at grc.nasa.gov  Wed Jan 11 19:32:54 2006
From: rme at grc.nasa.gov (Matt Emerson)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:32:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creating a list of moderators
In-Reply-To: <200601111734.k0BHYCXS016095@mailscan2.cc.mcgill.ca>
References: <200601111734.k0BHYCXS016095@mailscan2.cc.mcgill.ca>
Message-ID: <FEA2B378-F57A-47C5-B754-DF4B659BE47F@grc.nasa.gov>


On Jan 11, 2006, at 12:34 PM, David Benson wrote:

> I'm a site administrator and I'd like to be able to send messages  
> out to all of my moderators at once.  Does the current version of  
> Mailman have functionality to do this, i.e. can it automatically  
> generate a 'list' of moderators? ...or will I have to write my own  
> code to make it happen?

We created a mailing list called "list-owners", which we update once  
a day via the following command.

/usr/share/mailman/bin/withlist -q -a -r printowners | tr A-Z a-z |  
sort | uniq | /usr/share/mailman/bin/sync_members -w=no -g=no -f -  
list-owners >>/tmp/list-owner-updates

The printowners helper script, which we put in /usr/share/mailman/bin/ 
printowners.py, contains the following.  (It's probably better to  
keep local stuff out of Mailman's bin directory, but since I'm a  
python caveman, I just put the local script there anyway.)

#!/usr/bin/python

def printowners(m):
     for i in m.owner:
         print i

If you want the list moderators (distinct from the list owners),  
you'd want to use m.moderator in lieu of m.owner.

-- 
Matt Emerson
rme at grc.nasa.gov




From fnmjd at voicenet.com  Wed Jan 11 19:51:32 2006
From: fnmjd at voicenet.com (Mike D.)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:51:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] huge delays in email posts?
Message-ID: <p06230922bfeb028719ed@[192.168.1.109]>

Hi everyone,

I hope someone can help me out with this.  I just last month has to 
move my mailman list from one hosting company to another.  The new 
company has installed mailman 2.1.5 on the latest version of their 
Plesk server.  Everything seems to be running fine with the exception 
of mail coming out of the server with delays up to 24 hours.  I have 
a moderated list and messages sent to it are immediately showing up 
in the pending que.

I notice the delays in two areas.  The first is pending notices 
awaiting approval emails.  I will often not get an email of a pending 
post for hours or even a day after it appears in the pending que. 
The second delay is after I approve the email.  It will often not 
show up in members inboxes for hours and even a day.  The new hosting 
company has been very patient and wanting to help, but they don't 
know where to go from here.  They are new to mailman.

I can tell you that they don't use email throttling.  I know there 
may be one or two crons that mailman may have set up, but they don't 
know what they may be or what they do.  Can anyone offer some advice 
that I can pass on to them to check?  Any help would be greatly 
appreciated.

-- 
Take care,
Mike D.
AOL Instant Messenger "fnmjd"
Yahoo Instant Messenger "fnmjd"


From zackbeatty at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 11 20:11:22 2006
From: zackbeatty at yahoo.com (Zack Beatty)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 11:11:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maximum size of list (# of recipients)?
Message-ID: <20060111191122.93363.qmail@web30504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I've searched the mailman docs, as well as Google, and
turned up nothing.   This seems to be such a simple
question, that should appear in the mailman FAQ, or at
least the main feature list.

What is the maximum numbers of recipients that Mailman
can send to?   
Another way of putting it: how many members can a
Mailman list have?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Jan 11 20:21:39 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 13:21:39 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maximum size of list (# of recipients)?
In-Reply-To: <20060111191122.93363.qmail@web30504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060111191122.93363.qmail@web30504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06200703bfeb0b305016@[192.168.1.100]>

At 11:11 AM -0800 2006-01-11, Zack Beatty wrote:

>  What is the maximum numbers of recipients that Mailman
>  can send to?
>  Another way of putting it: how many members can a
>  Mailman list have?

	See FAQ 1.15 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.015.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From Jason at Weatherserver.net  Wed Jan 11 20:16:26 2006
From: Jason at Weatherserver.net (Jason (WeatherServer))
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:16:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] huge delays in email posts?
References: <p06230922bfeb028719ed@[192.168.1.109]>
Message-ID: <001e01c616e3$84cf8e60$1400000a@workstation>

I've heard of other providers with this issue. It turned out there mail 
systems had a limit of how much email per hour you could send out. Every 
other email over that limit is just rejected until the next hour when your 
limits are reset. Now you said they don't do throttling but could they be 
doing this and just not counting it as part of there throttling process?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike D." <fnmjd at voicenet.com>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 1:51 PM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] huge delays in email posts?


Hi everyone,

I hope someone can help me out with this.  I just last month has to
move my mailman list from one hosting company to another.  The new
company has installed mailman 2.1.5 on the latest version of their
Plesk server.  Everything seems to be running fine with the exception
of mail coming out of the server with delays up to 24 hours.  I have
a moderated list and messages sent to it are immediately showing up
in the pending que.

I notice the delays in two areas.  The first is pending notices
awaiting approval emails.  I will often not get an email of a pending
post for hours or even a day after it appears in the pending que.
The second delay is after I approve the email.  It will often not
show up in members inboxes for hours and even a day.  The new hosting
company has been very patient and wanting to help, but they don't
know where to go from here.  They are new to mailman.

I can tell you that they don't use email throttling.  I know there
may be one or two crons that mailman may have set up, but they don't
know what they may be or what they do.  Can anyone offer some advice
that I can pass on to them to check?  Any help would be greatly
appreciated.

-- 
Take care,
Mike D.
AOL Instant Messenger "fnmjd"
Yahoo Instant Messenger "fnmjd"
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jason%40weatherserver.net

Security Policy: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp




From zackbeatty at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 11 20:22:54 2006
From: zackbeatty at yahoo.com (Zack Beatty)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 11:22:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Maximum size of list (# of recipients)?
Message-ID: <20060111192254.99497.qmail@web30509.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I've searched the mailman docs, as well as Google, and
turned up nothing.   This seems to be such a simple
question, that should appear in the mailman FAQ, or at
least the main feature list.

What is the maximum numbers of recipients that Mailman
can send to?   
Another way of putting it: how many members can a
Mailman list have?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan 11 20:43:32 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 11:43:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creating a list of moderators
In-Reply-To: <FEA2B378-F57A-47C5-B754-DF4B659BE47F@grc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <PC174020060111114332092103ccdcb9@msapiro>

Matt Emerson wrote:
>
>We created a mailing list called "list-owners", which we update once  
>a day via the following command.
>
>/usr/share/mailman/bin/withlist -q -a -r printowners | tr A-Z a-z |  
>sort | uniq | /usr/share/mailman/bin/sync_members -w=no -g=no -f -  
>list-owners >>/tmp/list-owner-updates
>
>The printowners helper script, which we put in /usr/share/mailman/bin/ 
>printowners.py, contains the following.  (It's probably better to  
>keep local stuff out of Mailman's bin directory, but since I'm a  
>python caveman, I just put the local script there anyway.)
>
>#!/usr/bin/python
>
>def printowners(m):
>     for i in m.owner:
>         print i


You could probably replace the

/usr/share/mailman/bin/withlist -q -a -r printowners | tr A-Z a-z |  
sort | uniq

part of this pipe with

/usr/share/mailman/bin/list_owners

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan 11 20:53:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 11:53:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maximum size of list (# of recipients)?
In-Reply-To: <20060111191122.93363.qmail@web30504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601111153540640150428b6@msapiro>

Zack Beatty wrote:

>I've searched the mailman docs, as well as Google, and
>turned up nothing.   This seems to be such a simple
>question, that should appear in the mailman FAQ, or at
>least the main feature list.
>
>What is the maximum numbers of recipients that Mailman
>can send to?   
>Another way of putting it: how many members can a
>Mailman list have?

It's in the FAQ -
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.015.htp>.

The number there (147,000) is somewhat out of date. There was a recent
report
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-December/048283.html>
of a server with 4 lists of 200,000 members each, but it was
"performing non-optimally".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From david at midrange.com  Wed Jan 11 21:11:19 2006
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 14:11:19 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SpamDetect loop?
Message-ID: <dq3op8$pdn$1@sea.gmane.org>

Folks:

Since I upgraded to MM 2.1.7 I've noticed something odd in my admin
queue ... it appears that messages coming through the SpamDetect
pipeline for the owner-address are getting into a loop.

Basically, if I get a message in my admin queue for 'out of office'
(simple spam filter), I get dozens if not hundreds of the following also
in my admin queue ...

-------
As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the
following mailing list posting:

    List:    RPG400-L at midrange.com
    From:    rpg400-l-owner at midrange.com
    Subject: RPG400-L post from user.cv.rao at example.com requires approval
    Reason:  The message headers matched a filter rule

At your convenience, visit:

    http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/admindb/rpg400-l

to approve or deny the request.
As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the
following mailing list posting:

    List:    RPG400-L at midrange.com
    From:    user.cv.rao at example.com
    Subject: user CV Rao/PGG/example is out of the office.
    Reason:  The message headers matched a filter rule

At your convenience, visit:

    http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/admindb/rpg400-l

to approve or deny the request.

I will be out of the office starting  11/01/2006 and will not return until
07/02/2006.
-------

It *APPEARS* to me that the spam detect filters are keying on the "out
of office" message that is included in the original message.

As an experiment, I've removed the SpamDetect entry from the
OWNER_PIPELINE entry in mm_cfg.py.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks!

david



From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Wed Jan 11 21:20:14 2006
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:20:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creating a list of moderators
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060111114332092103ccdcb9@msapiro>
References: <PC174020060111114332092103ccdcb9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43C5687E.2030305@wingfoot.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>You could probably replace the
>
>/usr/share/mailman/bin/withlist -q -a -r printowners | tr A-Z a-z |  
>sort | uniq
>
>part of this pipe with
>
>/usr/share/mailman/bin/list_owners
>  
>

It appears to also do the uniq for you... I own a few lists on my box, 
and that command lists me once (which is fine for the purpose intended 
by the OP).

Best,
--Glenn



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan 11 21:48:49 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 12:48:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SpamDetect loop?
In-Reply-To: <dq3op8$pdn$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006011112484904375f387986@msapiro>

David Gibbs wrote:
>
>Since I upgraded to MM 2.1.7 I've noticed something odd in my admin
>queue ... it appears that messages coming through the SpamDetect
>pipeline for the owner-address are getting into a loop.
>
>Basically, if I get a message in my admin queue for 'out of office'
>(simple spam filter), I get dozens if not hundreds of the following also
>in my admin queue ...
>
<snip>
>
>It *APPEARS* to me that the spam detect filters are keying on the "out
>of office" message that is included in the original message.
>
>As an experiment, I've removed the SpamDetect entry from the
>OWNER_PIPELINE entry in mm_cfg.py.
>
>Any other suggestions?

There are a few things going on. Did you upgrade from 2.1.6 or from
pre-2.1.6? Starting in 2.1.6, header_filter_rules are applied to the
headers of sub-parts which might cause a problem if the admin
notification contains something that matches, BUT there is a safety
valve in that the SpamDetect process is never supposed to be applied
to internally generated messages such as admin notifications.

So something is going wrong here, but I don't know what. I will
investigate, but if you could send me off list what your
header_filter_rules are and a copy of the original problem message, it
may help me.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From zackbeatty at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 11 21:54:49 2006
From: zackbeatty at yahoo.com (Zack Beatty)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 12:54:49 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maximum size of list (# of recipients)?
In-Reply-To: <p06200703bfeb0b305016@[192.168.1.100]>
Message-ID: <20060111205450.53624.qmail@web30501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thanks, everyone.

--- Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote:

> At 11:11 AM -0800 2006-01-11, Zack Beatty wrote:
> 
> >  What is the maximum numbers of recipients that
> Mailman
> >  can send to?
> >  Another way of putting it: how many members can a
> >  Mailman list have?
> 
> 	See FAQ 1.15 at 
>
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.015.htp>.
> 
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
> 
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to
> purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor
> Safety."
> 
>      -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the
> Pennsylvania
>      Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
> 
>   LOPSA member since December 2005.  See
> <http://www.lopsa.org/>.
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From drew.tenenholz at isid.org  Wed Jan 11 22:26:39 2006
From: drew.tenenholz at isid.org (Drew Tenenholz)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:26:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] huge delays in email posts?
In-Reply-To: <p06230926bfeb19c718d2@[192.168.1.109]>
References: <p06230922bfeb028719ed@[192.168.1.109]>
	<v04220806bfeb0c1c2de3@[192.168.209.102]>
	<p06230926bfeb19c718d2@[192.168.1.109]>
Message-ID: <v04220809bfeb25ea3dca@[192.168.209.102]>

Mike --

Receiving mail to the server and the server sending the mail are 
independent actions.  So it it certainly possible for inbound 
messages to arrive just fine while outbound traffic is very slow.

Each of your outbound messages has to have the domain translated into 
numbers  (e.g. *@python.org goes to mail.python.org which is 
194.109.207.14).  If your server cannot do this translation for 
itself (i.e. is a DNS server as well as a Mailman server), then it 
has to ask an assigned DNS server for the translation.  If this Plesk 
server's settings are not well-formed, then it may take a long time 
for each message to get the translation done, resulting in outbound 
delays for all messages.  That's what happened to us.

Our Majordomo server had been doing it's own DNS, then someone turned 
it off without really directing it to use a different DNS server.  So 
it sort of hunted around for an available DNS server somewhere in the 
world for EACH outbound message.  Once the sysadmin tracked down what 
was happening and reinstated the server's own DNS resolution, 
everything returned to normal speed.

HTH,
Drew Tenenholz


>Hi Drew,
>
>Thanks for getting back to me.  Would it matter that messages making 
>it to the mailman Plesk server are getting there just fine very 
>fast? In other words, sending email to the domain seems fine, it 
>just routing it back out to members is what is taking so long.
>
>Mike D.
>
>>Mike --
>>
>>You might want to look into how the DNS resolution is being done 
>>for this server.  We're just getting started with mailman, but saw 
>>major delays with our much larger (38,000 subscriber) majordomo 
>>list when DNS resolution was turned off on the server and all DNS 
>>queries were rerouted to an outside DNS server.
>>
>>Things that had taken minutes started taking several hoursor even a 
>>day to complete, just like you.  Since the moderators of the list 
>>have all signed contracts to deal with posts within 4 hours, they 
>>were understandably upset over the delays.
>>
>>HTH,
>>Drew Tenenholz
>
>--
>Take care,
>Mike D.
>AOL Instant Messenger "fnmjd"
>Yahoo Instant Messenger "fnmjd"



From david at midrange.com  Wed Jan 11 22:19:28 2006
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:19:28 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SpamDetect loop?
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006011112484904375f387986@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006011112484904375f387986@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43C57660.4020304@midrange.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> There are a few things going on. Did you upgrade from 2.1.6 or from
> pre-2.1.6? 

2.1.5 with some custom patches (nothing major, just text changes & the
like).

> Starting in 2.1.6, header_filter_rules are applied to the
> headers of sub-parts which might cause a problem if the admin
> notification contains something that matches, BUT there is a safety
> valve in that the SpamDetect process is never supposed to be applied
> to internally generated messages such as admin notifications.

Ok, that does appear to be what is happening ... but the safety valve
doesn't seem to be kicking in.

> So something is going wrong here, but I don't know what. I will
> investigate, but if you could send me off list what your
> header_filter_rules are and a copy of the original problem message, it
> may help me.

I'll send that under separate cover :)

david



From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Wed Jan 11 22:44:05 2006
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 06:44:05 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SpamDetect loop?
In-Reply-To: <43C57660.4020304@midrange.com>
References: <PC17402006011112484904375f387986@msapiro>
	<43C57660.4020304@midrange.com>
Message-ID: <43C57C25.7090804@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi,

I've coded that bug in the last minute of releasing. :-(
I think I can generate a patch, but in the meantime, please copy the 
SpamDetect.py file from 2.1.6 distribution and restart.

David Gibbs wrote:
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
>>There are a few things going on. Did you upgrade from 2.1.6 or from
>>pre-2.1.6? 
> 
> 
> 2.1.5 with some custom patches (nothing major, just text changes & the
> like).
> 
> 
>>Starting in 2.1.6, header_filter_rules are applied to the
>>headers of sub-parts which might cause a problem if the admin
>>notification contains something that matches, BUT there is a safety
>>valve in that the SpamDetect process is never supposed to be applied
>>to internally generated messages such as admin notifications.
> 
> 
> Ok, that does appear to be what is happening ... but the safety valve
> doesn't seem to be kicking in.
> 
> 
>>So something is going wrong here, but I don't know what. I will
>>investigate, but if you could send me off list what your
>>header_filter_rules are and a copy of the original problem message, it
>>may help me.
> 
> 
> I'll send that under separate cover :)
> 
> david

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/


From david at midrange.com  Wed Jan 11 22:48:36 2006
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:48:36 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SpamDetect loop?
In-Reply-To: <43C57C25.7090804@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <PC17402006011112484904375f387986@msapiro>
	<43C57660.4020304@midrange.com> <43C57C25.7090804@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <43C57D34.70403@midrange.com>

Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
> I've coded that bug in the last minute of releasing. :-(

Doh!

> I think I can generate a patch, but in the meantime, please copy the
> SpamDetect.py file from 2.1.6 distribution and restart.

I've temporarily removed the SpamDetect module from the owner pipeline
and it seems to be working ok for now.

david



From rme at grc.nasa.gov  Wed Jan 11 23:47:20 2006
From: rme at grc.nasa.gov (Matt Emerson)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 17:47:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creating a list of moderators
In-Reply-To: <43C5687E.2030305@wingfoot.org>
References: <PC174020060111114332092103ccdcb9@msapiro>
	<43C5687E.2030305@wingfoot.org>
Message-ID: <AC768A2B-5918-48EE-B9DE-B77BD72294A0@grc.nasa.gov>


On Jan 11, 2006, at 3:20 PM, Glenn Sieb wrote:

> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> You could probably replace the
>>
>> /usr/share/mailman/bin/withlist -q -a -r printowners | tr A-Z a-z |
>> sort | uniq
>>
>> part of this pipe with
>>
>> /usr/share/mailman/bin/list_owners
>>
> It appears to also do the uniq for you... I own a few lists on my box,
> and that command lists me once (which is fine for the purpose intended
> by the OP).

I think I didn't use the list_owners command because it treats email  
addresses which differ only in capitalization as distinct.

-- 
Matt Emerson
rme at grc.nasa.gov




From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Thu Jan 12 01:17:09 2006
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 09:17:09 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SpamDetect loop?
In-Reply-To: <43C57D34.70403@midrange.com>
References: <PC17402006011112484904375f387986@msapiro>	<43C57660.4020304@midrange.com>
	<43C57C25.7090804@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <43C57D34.70403@midrange.com>
Message-ID: <43C5A005.4060905@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

David Gibbs wrote:

> 
>>I think I can generate a patch, but in the meantime, please copy the
>>SpamDetect.py file from 2.1.6 distribution and restart.
> 
> 
> I've temporarily removed the SpamDetect module from the owner pipeline
> and it seems to be working ok for now.
> 

David,

Can you test this patch?

Removing SpamDetect from the owner pipeline means spams pass through to 
the list owner.  This should be inconvenient.


-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/
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From david at midrange.com  Thu Jan 12 02:46:13 2006
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 19:46:13 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SpamDetect loop?
In-Reply-To: <43C5A005.4060905@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <PC17402006011112484904375f387986@msapiro>	<43C57660.4020304@midrange.com>
	<43C57C25.7090804@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <43C57D34.70403@midrange.com>
	<43C5A005.4060905@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <43C5B4E5.9050600@midrange.com>

> Can you test this patch?

Ok.

> Removing SpamDetect from the owner pipeline means spams pass through to
> the list owner.  This should be inconvenient.

Eh ... I'm not 100% sure that particular module is all that effective.
I've been using one of the SpamAssassin integrations (from the patches
repository on sf) to great effect.

I'll let you know how the patch works ... I've applied it and re-enabled
the SpamDetect module in the owners pipeline.

david



From munzirtaha at gmail.com  Thu Jan 12 05:47:30 2006
From: munzirtaha at gmail.com (Munzir Taha)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 07:47:30 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 461 Too many unknown users from your host
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060109084644012582597189@msapiro>
References: <PC174020060109084644012582597189@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200601120747.35783.munzirtaha@gmail.com>

?? ??? ??????? 09 ?? ?????? 1426 19:46, ??? Mark Sapiro:
> Mailman doesn't group bounces, but it does group outgoing mail that
> isn't VERPed or personalized. Thus, Mailman is sending one message to
> many recipients in the same domain. The receiving MTA may thus reply
> with one bounce message for all the undeliverable addressees in that
> domain. Also, Your outgoing MTA may by sending a single DSN covering
> all the undeliverable addresses in finds in one message.
>

Thanks a lot Mark for taking the time to explain it clearly.
Keep up the good work.

--
Munzir Taha
Telecommunications and Electronics Engineer
Maintainer of Fedora Arabic Translation Project
https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-ar
Maintainer of the OpenBugs project page at
http://www.arabic-fedora.org/munzir/OpenBugs.html
Master CIW Designer, ICDL, MOUS, Linux+, LPI 101
Riyadh, SA
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From ler at lerctr.org  Thu Jan 12 18:21:50 2006
From: ler at lerctr.org (Larry Rosenman)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:21:50 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTA='None': causes an error (2.1.6)
Message-ID: <Pine.UW2.4.62.0601121119030.24312@lerami.lerctr.org>


I tried to follow the instructions in $MAILMANHOME/Mailman/Defaults.py to turn
off the alias create/destroy emails by setting MTA='None'.  When my client
tried to create a new list, he garnered the following error log:


Jan 12 12:11:38 2006 admin(4601): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 
admin(4601): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.6 -----] 
admin(4601): [----- Traceback ------] 
admin(4601): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(4601):   File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in run_main
admin(4601):     main()
admin(4601):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 55, in main
admin(4601):     process_request(doc, cgidata)
admin(4601):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 226, in process_request
admin(4601):     __import__(modname)
admin(4601): ImportError: No module named None
admin(4601): [----- Python Information -----] 
admin(4601): sys.version     =   2.4.1 (#2, Jul 29 2005, 04:04:23) 
[GCC 3.4.2 [FreeBSD] 20040728] 
admin(4601): sys.executable  =   /usr/local/bin/python 
admin(4601): sys.prefix      =   /usr/local 
admin(4601): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr/local 
admin(4601): sys.path        =   /usr/local 
admin(4601): sys.platform    =   freebsd5 
admin(4601): [----- Environment Variables -----] 
admin(4601): 	HTTP_REFERER: http://elists.isoc.org/mailman/create 
admin(4601): 	SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/1.3.34 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.8.25 OpenSSL/0.9.7d 
admin(4601): 	SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/create 
admin(4601): 	SERVER_SIGNATURE: <ADDRESS>Apache/1.3.34 Server at elists.isoc.org Port 80</ADDRESS>
admin(4601): 
admin(4601): 	REQUEST_METHOD: POST 
admin(4601): 	SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1 
admin(4601): 	QUERY_STRING: 
admin(4601): 	CONTENT_LENGTH: 135 
admin(4601): 	HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322) 
admin(4601): 	HTTP_CONNECTION: Keep-Alive 
admin(4601): 	SERVER_NAME: elists.isoc.org 
admin(4601): 	REMOTE_ADDR: 213.3.13.1 
admin(4601): 	SERVER_PORT: 80 
admin(4601): 	SERVER_ADDR: 66.77.130.70 
admin(4601): 	DOCUMENT_ROOT: /usr/local/www/data 
admin(4601): 	PYTHONPATH: /usr/local/mailman 
admin(4601): 	SCRIPT_FILENAME: /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/create 
admin(4601): 	SERVER_ADMIN: you at your.address 
admin(4601): 	SCRIPT_URI: http://elists.isoc.org/mailman/create 
admin(4601): 	HTTP_HOST: elists.isoc.org 
admin(4601): 	SCRIPT_URL: /mailman/create 
admin(4601): 	HTTP_CACHE_CONTROL: no-cache 
admin(4601): 	REQUEST_URI: /mailman/create 
admin(4601): 	HTTP_ACCEPT: image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, image/pjpeg, application/vnd.ms-excel, application/vnd.ms-powerpoint, application/msword, application/x-shockwave-flash, */* 
admin(4601): 	GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1 
admin(4601): 	REMOTE_PORT: 4896 
admin(4601): 	HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en-gb 
admin(4601): 	CONTENT_TYPE: application/x-www-form-urlencoded 
admin(4601): 	HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate 
admin(4601): 	UNIQUE_ID: Q8aNykJNgkYAAWbDCS4

Any help would be appreciated :)


-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 512-248-2683                 E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
US Mail: 430 Valona Loop, Round Rock, TX 78681-3893


From jnguyen at ncmir.ucsd.edu  Thu Jan 12 22:19:43 2006
From: jnguyen at ncmir.ucsd.edu (Jana Nguyen)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 13:19:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migration of mailing list to mailman?
Message-ID: <43C6C7EF.2070103@ncmir.ucsd.edu>

Hi there,

I have .archive files of mailing lists that I need to migrate over to 
mailman.  Where do I copy these
.archive files on to mailman, where does it locate?  I need to test out 
if our existing mailing list work on mailman.

Thanks,
Jana


From tmz at pobox.com  Thu Jan 12 23:39:26 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 17:39:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTA='None': causes an error (2.1.6)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.UW2.4.62.0601121119030.24312@lerami.lerctr.org>
References: <Pine.UW2.4.62.0601121119030.24312@lerami.lerctr.org>
Message-ID: <20060112223926.GO25627@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Larry Rosenman wrote:

> I tried to follow the instructions in $MAILMANHOME/Mailman/Defaults.py to turn
> off the alias create/destroy emails by setting MTA='None'.  When my client
> tried to create a new list, he garnered the following error log:
>
>
> Jan 12 12:11:38 2006 admin(4601): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 
> admin(4601): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.6 -----] 
> admin(4601): [----- Traceback ------] 
> admin(4601): Traceback (most recent call last):
> admin(4601):   File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in run_main
> admin(4601):     main()
> admin(4601):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 55, in main
> admin(4601):     process_request(doc, cgidata)
> admin(4601):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 226, in process_request
> admin(4601):     __import__(modname)
> admin(4601): ImportError: No module named None

Use MTA=None.  No quotes.  Perhaps the text in Defaults.py could be
more explicit about that.  If you read them carefully, you notice that
it says 'Postfix' and 'Manual' with quotes and None without - it just
doesn't mention that this small detail is quite important.

- -- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
Whenever 'A' attempts by law to impose his moral standards upon 'B',
'A' is most likely a scoundrel.
    -- H. L. Mencken

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkPG2p0mGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1o7zwCg/HYaikpWkUZUEEOu1ofZzrAdxJgAoNS1Z7z3
5UOF4Q/ybUjwtQ89fj5n
=RQ27
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From ler at lerctr.org  Thu Jan 12 23:54:39 2006
From: ler at lerctr.org (Larry Rosenman)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 16:54:39 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTA='None': causes an error (2.1.6)
In-Reply-To: <20060112223926.GO25627@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <00e101c617cb$2b3b62f0$0a0a0a0a@aus.pervasive.com>

Todd Zullinger wrote:

> Use MTA=None.  No quotes.  Perhaps the text in Defaults.py could be
> more explicit about that.  If you read them carefully, you notice that
> it says 'Postfix' and 'Manual' with quotes and None without - it just
> doesn't mention that this small detail is quite important.
> 
Thank You.  Yes, if we can improve the wording, or explicitly check for
this method of foot-shooting, it would be a good thing(tm).


-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 512-248-2683                 E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
US Mail: 430 Valona Loop, Round Rock, TX 78681-3893



From elvisfern at gmail.com  Fri Jan 13 00:22:14 2006
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 15:22:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Goes to moderation with reason "too many recepients"
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50601121522m2009ac87p2c4f0dccdaf292ae@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

Here is a scenario:
I have a user who is a member of "amail-list". This user is sending out an
email to a bunch of non-"amail-list" users, and CC's "amail-list".
This e-mail goes into moderation with reason "Too many receipients to the
message"
The "amail-list" is setup so that non-members can send e-mail to this list.

Does mailman have a limit for the number of users that a non-mail list
e-mail can be send to, without considering it as spam?
Can someone share their experiences.

Thanks
Elvis Fernandes


From elvisfern at gmail.com  Fri Jan 13 01:06:42 2006
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 16:06:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Goes to moderation with reason "too many
	recepients"
In-Reply-To: <E3861B17-F6D3-4DAB-9393-DD72D23B4E28@memphis.edu>
References: <5b1c0dc50601121522m2009ac87p2c4f0dccdaf292ae@mail.gmail.com>
	<E3861B17-F6D3-4DAB-9393-DD72D23B4E28@memphis.edu>
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50601121606i588e0eb1y120142f10ae08833@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Dan,

Okay, the default setting was 10. I have set it to 0 now.
That should take care of the emails not getting into the moderation
requests.

Thanks
Elvis Fernandes

On 1/12/06, Dan Phillips <dhphllps at memphis.edu> wrote:
>
>
> On Jan 12, 2006, at 5:22 PM, Elvis Fernandes wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > Here is a scenario:
> > I have a user who is a member of "amail-list". This user is sending
> > out an
> > email to a bunch of non-"amail-list" users, and CC's "amail-list".
> > This e-mail goes into moderation with reason "Too many receipients
> > to the
> > message"
> > The "amail-list" is setup so that non-members can send e-mail to
> > this list.
> >
> > Does mailman have a limit for the number of users that a non-mail list
> > e-mail can be send to, without considering it as spam?
> > Can someone share their experiences.
>
>
> That's set on a per list basis under privacy options-->recipient
> filters. Set the number to whatever you like, or zero for no limit.
> It doesn't matter whether the sender is a member o the list or not.
>
> Dan
>


From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Fri Jan 13 03:02:00 2006
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 21:02:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error in 2.1.7...
Message-ID: <43C70A18.7070905@wingfoot.org>

I tried to edit the listinfo page of a list, and got the following in
logs/error:

Jan 12 21:01:18 2006 admin(87363):
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(87363): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.7 -----]
admin(87363): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(87363): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(87363):   File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in
run_main
admin(87363):     main()
admin(87363):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/edithtml.py", line
125, in main
admin(87363):     ChangeHTML(mlist, cgidata, template_name, doc)
admin(87363):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/edithtml.py", line
160, in ChangeHTML
admin(87363):     code = re.sub(r'<([/]?script.*?)>', r'&lt;\1&gt;', code)
admin(87363): NameError: global name 're' is not defined
admin(87363): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(87363): sys.version     =   2.4.2 (#2, Dec  5 2005, 17:46:01)
[GCC 2.95.4 20020320 [FreeBSD]]
admin(87363): sys.executable  =   /usr/local/bin/python
admin(87363): sys.prefix      =   /usr/local
admin(87363): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr/local
admin(87363): sys.path        =   /usr/local
admin(87363): sys.platform    =   freebsd4
admin(87363): [----- Environment Variables -----]
admin(87363):   HTTP_COOKIE:
offthemap+admin=280200000069d909c743732800000065633030336561333261313239303966313631383333656431303338376338326266346632306363;
dbx-postmeta=grabit=0-,1-,2-,3-,4-,5-,6-&advancedstuff=0-,1-,2-
admin(87363):   SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/2.0.55 (FreeBSD) PHP/4.4.1
mod_fastcgi/2.4.2 mod_ssl/2.0.55 OpenSSL/0.9.8a
admin(87363):   SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/edithtml
admin(87363):   SERVER_SIGNATURE: <address>Apache/2.0.55 (FreeBSD)
PHP/4.4.1 mod_fastcgi/2.4.2 mod_ssl/2.0.55 OpenSSL/0.9.8a Server at
www.wingfoot.org Port 443</address>
admin(87363):
admin(87363):   REQUEST_METHOD: POST
admin(87363):   HTTP_KEEP_ALIVE: 300
admin(87363):   SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1
admin(87363):   QUERY_STRING:
admin(87363):   CONTENT_LENGTH: 10249
admin(87363):   HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7
admin(87363):   HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT
5.1; en-US; rv:1.8) Gecko/20051111 Firefox/1.5
admin(87363):   TZ: America/New_York
admin(87363):   HTTP_REFERER:
https://www.wingfoot.org/mailman/edithtml/offthemap/listinfo.html
admin(87363):   SERVER_NAME: www.wingfoot.org
admin(87363):   REMOTE_ADDR: 68.196.127.120
admin(87363):   PATH_TRANSLATED: /usr/local/www/ssl/offthemap/listinfo.html
admin(87363):   SERVER_PORT: 443
admin(87363):   SERVER_ADDR: 64.32.179.50
admin(87363):   DOCUMENT_ROOT: /usr/local/www/ssl/
admin(87363):   PYTHONPATH: /usr/local/mailman
admin(87363):   SCRIPT_FILENAME: /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/edithtml
admin(87363):   SERVER_ADMIN: webmaster at wingfoot.org
admin(87363):   HTTP_HOST: www.wingfoot.org
admin(87363):   HTTPS: on
admin(87363):   HTTP_CONNECTION: keep-alive
admin(87363):   REQUEST_URI: /mailman/edithtml/offthemap/listinfo.html
admin(87363):   HTTP_ACCEPT:
text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5
admin(87363):   GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
admin(87363):   REMOTE_PORT: 1373
admin(87363):   HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en-us,en;q=0.5
admin(87363):   CONTENT_TYPE: application/x-www-form-urlencoded
admin(87363):   HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip,deflate
admin(87363):   UNIQUE_ID: 1z7tOUAgszIAAVJSCPYAAAAA
admin(87363):   PATH_INFO: /offthemap/listinfo.html


-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
          ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan 13 06:01:23 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 21:01:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error in 2.1.7...
In-Reply-To: <43C70A18.7070905@wingfoot.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601122101230140df006363@msapiro>

Glenn Sieb wrote:

>I tried to edit the listinfo page of a list, and got the following in
>logs/error:


See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-January/048560.html>
and
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1400128&group_id=103&atid=100103>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan 13 16:56:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 07:56:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] migration of mailing list to mailman?
In-Reply-To: <43C6C7EF.2070103@ncmir.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402006011307565003593d9120d9@msapiro>

Jana Nguyen wrote:
>
>I have .archive files of mailing lists that I need to migrate over to 
>mailman.  Where do I copy these
>.archive files on to mailman, where does it locate?  I need to test out 
>if our existing mailing list work on mailman.

If these '.archive' files are in *nix mbox format, they can be used
directly. Otherwise they first need to be converted to mbox format -
i.e., flat text files containing raw messages separated by 'From '
lines.

If, for example, you have a new Mailman list named mmlist, you can copy
such an archive file to archives/private/mmlist.mbox/mmlist.mbox and
then run

bin/arch --wipe mmlist

To create pipermail archives from the old mbox.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jp at pifiu.com  Fri Jan 13 18:59:12 2006
From: jp at pifiu.com (Jp Possenti)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:59:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Does Mailman do the following? Not sure if this is
	what I need.
Message-ID: <20060113181941.013451E4007@bag.python.org>

I have a list of customers (2,500) who decided that they would be interested
in receiving monthly, quarterly or yearly specials or information on our new
products, discounts or coupons.
I was wondering if Mailman would do the following:
Allow me to create an html flyer or text flyer, and send it out to one
address for example: newsletter at domain.com , and that address include the
2,500 e-mails, so that basically the users who receive them do not see the
other user's emails, and also have the recipient be newsletter at domain.com .
Basically send an email from newsletter at domain.com to newsletter at domain.com
and in there include the html site or text.
 
Now the second part of this question is, can mailman work without the need
to show the customers the mailman interface site? I would just like to
perhaps use mailman myself (the admin), and send it to them and if they ever
want to unsubscribe, just to reply to an email for example
unsubscribe at domain.com with maybe the word unsubscribe in the subject line?
 
So is there a way to add my 2,500 clients, send the masked emails so they
don't see other client's emails, send html, hide the mailman interface so
they don't get confused, and if they ever want to unsubscribe just send a
reply email with the subject unsubscribe or to a specific email?
In short, a lot of the question is if mailman web interface can be skipped
completely.
 
So is Mailman the appropriate program for what I am looking for? If not can
anyone recommend something that is?
 
Thanks in advance. 
 
Kind regards,
 
Jp
 


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan 13 19:40:23 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:40:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Does Mailman do the following? Not sure if this
	iswhat I need.
In-Reply-To: <20060113181941.013451E4007@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601131040230828807b2cd3@msapiro>

Jp Possenti wrote:

>I was wondering if Mailman would do the following:
>Allow me to create an html flyer or text flyer, and send it out to one
>address for example: newsletter at domain.com , and that address include the
>2,500 e-mails, so that basically the users who receive them do not see the
>other user's emails, and also have the recipient be newsletter at domain.com .
>Basically send an email from newsletter at domain.com to newsletter at domain.com
>and in there include the html site or text.


Yes, it will.

 
>Now the second part of this question is, can mailman work without the need
>to show the customers the mailman interface site? I would just like to
>perhaps use mailman myself (the admin), and send it to them and if they ever
>want to unsubscribe, just to reply to an email for example
>unsubscribe at domain.com with maybe the word unsubscribe in the subject line?


Yes to this too.

 
>So is there a way to add my 2,500 clients, send the masked emails so they
>don't see other client's emails, send html, hide the mailman interface so
>they don't get confused, and if they ever want to unsubscribe just send a
>reply email with the subject unsubscribe or to a specific email?
>In short, a lot of the question is if mailman web interface can be skipped
>completely.


You can do all this. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp>
for more information on how you might set this up.

 
>So is Mailman the appropriate program for what I am looking for? If not can
>anyone recommend something that is?


Maybe, Maybe not. Mailman will do what you've outlined above, but it
won't go much if any beyond that. If you later decide that you want to
customize the text of your messages or select recipients based on
customer profiles, or any of a number of other things along these
lines, you will need something more oriented toward 'customer
relations management'. So if you don't see your requirements
expanding, Mailman may be a good solution for you, but if you do, you
are probably better off starting with something that can handle these
requirements.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in  Sat Jan 14 05:03:04 2006
From: nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in (Kabilan L)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 09:33:04 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Very Urgent Help on LDAPMemberAdaptor-V3.0
Message-ID: <20060114035429.M75265@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>

Hello All!!!!
I am still trying my best to fix this Adaptor with the LDAP.I getting failed.
Please do Help me in Fixing this tool LDAPMemberAdaptor-V3.0.Give me How do
step by step.My list is still empty with no member ids there as i have put
extend.py in the lists.
please help me!!!!

Thanking You All
Kabilan.L
Department of Electrical Engineering
IIT Madras
Chennai - 600 036
Tamil Nadu, INDIA


"The secret to winning football games is working more as a team, less as
individuals. I play not my 11 best, but my best 11." ->Knute Rockne



From myozaw at ait.ac.th  Sat Jan 14 17:45:43 2006
From: myozaw at ait.ac.th (Myo Zaw Nyunt)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:45:43 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't find smrsh wrapper in sendmail
Message-ID: <1137257143.43c92ab73cb94@webmail.ait.ac.th>

Hi All,

As I am a new mailman user, I have a problem in using it. I can't find "smrsh
wrapper in my sendmail program according to this article
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node32.html. I am using
freebsd 5.3 with sendmail 8.13.1.

Next quesiton is do I need to create a user account manually for each mailing
list. I got a bounce mail back for my "Test" mailing list becase the sytem said
I don't have this "test at domain.com" account.

Or, do I need to add aliases in /etc/mail/aliases. If, how do I add?

Thanks for reply.

Myo Gyi


----------------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through AIT WebMail : http://www.ait.ac.th/



From Dimitrios.Gerasimatos at jpl.nasa.gov  Sat Jan 14 17:57:37 2006
From: Dimitrios.Gerasimatos at jpl.nasa.gov (Dimitrios Gerasimatos)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 08:57:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Test
Message-ID: <IIEIICBCGNHCIDMMDOIECEFECGAA.Dimitrios.Gerasimatos@jpl.nasa.gov>



My previous message (and lengthy) message seems lost. This is
a test.


Dimitri

--
Dimitrios Gerasimatos       dimitrios.gerasimatos at jpl.nasa.gov
Section 343 System Administration    Jet Propulsion Laboratory
4800 Oak Grove Dr.    Mail Stop 301-276,   Pasadena, CA  91109
Voice: 818.354.4910    FAX: 818.393.7102    Cell: 818.726.8617




From Dimitrios.Gerasimatos at jpl.nasa.gov  Sat Jan 14 17:42:27 2006
From: Dimitrios.Gerasimatos at jpl.nasa.gov (Dimitrios Gerasimatos)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 08:42:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with uuencoded attachments
Message-ID: <IIEIICBCGNHCIDMMDOIEOEFDCGAA.Dimitrios.Gerasimatos@jpl.nasa.gov>



If I send an attachment encoded with old HP-UX uuencode or
Eudora 6.2.3 uuencode then mailman shunts the message. The
error is "Warning: Trailing garbage" which is actually coming
from Python's uu.py module, which in turn gets it from the
binascii library. I wrote a little script to decode the file
in the shunt directory after running show_qfiles on it:


#!/usr/bin/python


import uu
import os, sys


infile = "myfile"
uu.decode(infile, sys.stdout)


This is where the above error message is coming from. Looking
at the C source code to binascii, this message results because
there are trailing characters in the message which are not
blanks, newlines, or '`' (a special character which means ' '
to some encoders). The character is above the 'end' tag and is
actually the last character in the encoding. Here are the last
few lines:


M,3,P,3(S,B`P,#`P,"!N(`IT<F%I;&5R"CP\("]3:7IE(#DR("]2;V]T(#@Y
M(#`@4B`O26YF;R`Y,"`P(%(@+TE$(#DQ(#`@4B`^/@IS=&%R='AR968*,3,P
+,3,R, at HE)45/1 at HY
`
end


The character Python complains about is the 'Y'. I actually
tried two different files (a PDF and an Excel file) and both
failed with the same error and complained about the last
character. I thought this must be a Python bug, because when I
take the same original file and encode it on an HP-UX command
line I get the same as above, therefore absolving Eudora. However,
if I uuencode the file using MS Outlook I get the following:


M,3,P,3(S,B P,# P,"!N( IT<F%I;&5R"CP\("]3:7IE(#DR("]2;V]T(#@Y
M(# @4B O26YF;R Y," P(%(@+TE$(#DQ(# @4B ^/@IS=&%R='AR968*,3,P
+,3,R, at HE)45/1 at H`
`
end


Mailman/python have no problems with this file sent via Outlook.
Notice the final character is a '`' and not a 'Y'.


I have a few questions:


1. Why do Eudora and HP-UX both produce code different from
   Outlook? Did two vendors make the same bug or is this a
   specification issue?


2. What can I do to mailman such that it can process the
   attachments sent by these rogue mailers like Eudora
   under MacOS X (definitely modern software)? Right now
   it chokes with:


Jan 14 06:36:21 2006 (2768) SHUNTING:
1137189869.4197209+f52dada65a850f1abfbdd0e
2044e7a117a6828f9
Jan 14 06:36:21 2006 (2768) uncaught archiver exception at filepos: 0
Jan 14 06:36:21 2006 (2768) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 32] Broken
pipe
Jan 14 06:36:21 2006 (2768) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose
    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 216, in
ArchiveMail
    h.processUnixMailbox(f)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 569, in
processUni
xMailbox
    m = mbox.next()
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/mailbox.py", line 35, in next
    return self.factory(_Subfile(self.fp, start, stop))
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 89, in scrubber
    return mailbox.scrub(msg)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 109, in scrub
    return self._scrubber(self._mlist, msg)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 290, in process
    payload = part.get_payload(decode=True)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 223, in
get_payload
    uu.decode(StringIO(payload+'\n'), sfp)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/uu.py", line 139, in decode
    sys.stderr.write("Warning: %s\n" % str(v))
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/MultiLogger.py", line 45, in write
    _logexc(logger, msg)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.py", line 22, in _logexc
    sys.__stderr__.write('Logging error: %s\n' % logger)
IOError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe


3. Is this possibly a python bug? HP-UX uudecode can decode
   these files no problem, but python gives me the
   "Warning: Trailing garbage" error. What's more, if I
   mail from Eudora to an IMAP account (not mailman) I have
   no problem opening the Eudora attachment in MS Outlook.
   Therefore, why does mailman dislike it?


This is mailman 2.1.7 with python 2.4.


Thanks for the help!


Dimitri

--
Dimitrios Gerasimatos       dimitrios.gerasimatos at jpl.nasa.gov
Section 343 System Administration    Jet Propulsion Laboratory
4800 Oak Grove Dr.    Mail Stop 301-276,   Pasadena, CA  91109
Voice: 818.354.4910    FAX: 818.393.7102    Cell: 818.726.8617




From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jan 14 18:37:00 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 09:37:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't find smrsh wrapper in sendmail
In-Reply-To: <1137257143.43c92ab73cb94@webmail.ait.ac.th>
Message-ID: <PC174020060114093700064076201460@msapiro>

Myo Zaw Nyunt wrote:
>
>As I am a new mailman user, I have a problem in using it. I can't find "smrsh
>wrapper in my sendmail program according to this article
>http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node32.html. I am using
>freebsd 5.3 with sendmail 8.13.1.


If you can't find 'smrsh' in your sendmail.cf per
<http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node32.html> then
probably your sendmail is not using smrsh which means that this
section (6.3.1) of the installation manual doesn't apply to you. Also,
section 6.3.2 is only for 'unusual' situations so skip that too.


>Next quesiton is do I need to create a user account manually for each mailing
>list. I got a bounce mail back for my "Test" mailing list becase the sytem said
>I don't have this "test at domain.com" account.


No. You need aliases.


>Or, do I need to add aliases in /etc/mail/aliases. If, how do I add?


If you really mean 'how', the answer is 'with a text editor'. Also see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.049.htp>.

If you mean 'what', if you haven't overridden the Defaults.py
MTA='Manual' setting, the list creation process should inform you of
the required aliases.

Here is a typical set for the site list named 'mailman'

## mailman mailing list
mailman:            "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe:  "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe:"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe
mailman"

The '/usr/local/mailman' part of the path is the default, but may be
diferent if you specified different directories via the --prefix= or
--exec-prefix= options to configure. Also, some of the above lines may
be wrapped.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pc2a at pi4cc.nl  Sat Jan 14 21:41:07 2006
From: pc2a at pi4cc.nl (Peter)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:41:07 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Edit archive
Message-ID: <43C961E3.473BD746@pi4cc.nl>

Hi

In Suse 10.0 there is a nice script to edit the archive files.
This is installed with mailman
The mailman download at list.org doen't have this script.
Debian too hasn't  this script.
Where can I download this script?
Its a nice tool to make some corrections (deleting files)

Peter



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jan 14 22:53:00 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 13:53:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with uuencoded attachments
In-Reply-To: <IIEIICBCGNHCIDMMDOIEOEFDCGAA.Dimitrios.Gerasimatos@jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601141353000531fb77f313@msapiro>

Dimitrios Gerasimatos wrote:
>
>If I send an attachment encoded with old HP-UX uuencode or
>Eudora 6.2.3 uuencode then mailman shunts the message.


This occurs during archiving (see below). The message is delivered - at
least to non-digest subscribers.


>The
>error is "Warning: Trailing garbage" which is actually coming
>from Python's uu.py module, which in turn gets it from the
>binascii library. I wrote a little script to decode the file
>in the shunt directory after running show_qfiles on it:
>
>
>#!/usr/bin/python
>
>
>import uu
>import os, sys
>
>
>infile = "myfile"
>uu.decode(infile, sys.stdout)
>
>
>This is where the above error message is coming from. Looking
>at the C source code to binascii, this message results because
>there are trailing characters in the message which are not
>blanks, newlines, or '`' (a special character which means ' '
>to some encoders). The character is above the 'end' tag and is
>actually the last character in the encoding. Here are the last
>few lines:
>
>
>M,3,P,3(S,B`P,#`P,"!N(`IT<F%I;&5R"CP\("]3:7IE(#DR("]2;V]T(#@Y
>M(#`@4B`O26YF;R`Y,"`P(%(@+TE$(#DQ(#`@4B`^/@IS=&%R='AR968*,3,P
>+,3,R, at HE)45/1 at HY
>`
>end
>
>
>The character Python complains about is the 'Y'. I actually
>tried two different files (a PDF and an Excel file) and both
>failed with the same error and complained about the last
>character. I thought this must be a Python bug, because when I
>take the same original file and encode it on an HP-UX command
>line I get the same as above, therefore absolving Eudora. However,
>if I uuencode the file using MS Outlook I get the following:
>
>
>M,3,P,3(S,B P,# P,"!N( IT<F%I;&5R"CP\("]3:7IE(#DR("]2;V]T(#@Y
>M(# @4B O26YF;R Y," P(%(@+TE$(#DQ(# @4B ^/@IS=&%R='AR968*,3,P
>+,3,R, at HE)45/1 at H`
>`
>end
>
>
>Mailman/python have no problems with this file sent via Outlook.


For one or both of two reasons.


>Notice the final character is a '`' and not a 'Y'.


That's one reason. The other is if Outlook is like OE, the uuencoded
'attachment' is not a separate MIME part so it will not be 'scrubbed'.


>I have a few questions:
>
>
>1. Why do Eudora and HP-UX both produce code different from
>   Outlook? Did two vendors make the same bug or is this a
>   specification issue?


The last line of your encoded file encodes 11 bytes or 88 bits - the
count is '+' which in Python means there are ord('+') - ord(' ') bytes
in the line. This requires 15 characters to encode, however the number
of characters in a line is required to be a multiple of 4, so there
are 16 characters in the encoding, the last of which is immaterial.
Most encoders will set these pad characters to '`', but it's not
required, however Python will complain with a warning message if
uu.decode() is called without a 'quiet=True' argument when these pad
bytes are not ' ' or '`'.

In my testing, Windows Eudora 5.2.0.9 encoded a file which required two
pad characters and they were both '`'. So this version of Eudora seems
to do what Python expects. Brief testing with HP-UX B.11.00 and
examination of your data indicates that in HP-UX uuencode, the pad
characters are residue from the same positions in the previous line.

Also, here are a few other things to consider.

MS Outlook Express and maybe Outlook does not actually 'attach'
uuencoded attachments. It just puts the uuencoded file in the
text/plain body of the message. Of course, when it receives a message
with a uuencoded file in the text/plain body, it calls it an
'attachment' even though it is not an attachment in the MIME sense.

Eudora however, will place the uuencoded file in a separate MIME part
with an appropriate 'Content-Type:' and 'Content-Transfer-Encoding:
x-uuencode'. Private x-* Content-Transfer-Encodings are strongly
discouraged by RFC 2045.



>2. What can I do to mailman such that it can process the
>   attachments sent by these rogue mailers like Eudora
>   under MacOS X (definitely modern software)? Right now
>   it chokes with:
>
>
>Jan 14 06:36:21 2006 (2768) SHUNTING:
>1137189869.4197209+f52dada65a850f1abfbdd0e
>2044e7a117a6828f9
>Jan 14 06:36:21 2006 (2768) uncaught archiver exception at filepos: 0
>Jan 14 06:36:21 2006 (2768) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 32] Broken
>pipe
>Jan 14 06:36:21 2006 (2768) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose
>    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 216, in
>ArchiveMail
>    h.processUnixMailbox(f)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 569, in
>processUni
>xMailbox
>    m = mbox.next()
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/mailbox.py", line 35, in next
>    return self.factory(_Subfile(self.fp, start, stop))
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 89, in scrubber
>    return mailbox.scrub(msg)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Mailbox.py", line 109, in scrub
>    return self._scrubber(self._mlist, msg)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 290, in process
>    payload = part.get_payload(decode=True)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 223, in
>get_payload
>    uu.decode(StringIO(payload+'\n'), sfp)
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/uu.py", line 139, in decode
>    sys.stderr.write("Warning: %s\n" % str(v))
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/MultiLogger.py", line 45, in write
>    _logexc(logger, msg)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.py", line 22, in _logexc
>    sys.__stderr__.write('Logging error: %s\n' % logger)
>IOError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe


The scrubber is trying to remove the attachment from the original
message to store it separately in the archive. It calls the
get_payload(decode=True) method to get the decoded attachment to save.
This ultimately calls Pytnon's uu.decode function which trys to write
the Warning to sys.stderr. The real problem is that at this point
sys.stderr is not writable, so that throws the IOError exception which
causes the message to be shunted.


>3. Is this possibly a python bug? HP-UX uudecode can decode
>   these files no problem, but python gives me the
>   "Warning: Trailing garbage" error. What's more, if I
>   mail from Eudora to an IMAP account (not mailman) I have
>   no problem opening the Eudora attachment in MS Outlook.
>   Therefore, why does mailman dislike it?


I would say it's not a Python bug since Python is only trying to issue
a warning and provides a means to suppress the warning.

I think this could be fixed by changing
"/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 223 from

                    uu.decode(StringIO(payload+'\n'), sfp)

to

                    uu.decode(StringIO(payload+'\n'), sfp, quiet=True)


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jeremy at lexpublib.org  Sun Jan 15 00:45:13 2006
From: jeremy at lexpublib.org (J. Horton)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:45:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hello and newbie question(s)
Message-ID: <B10FCEE8-AA6B-4F87-846A-1EFBB14FAA4D@lexpublib.org>

Hello-

Been a regular user of Mailman for a while now (it's fantastic), but  
only recently digging into the command line side of things.  Our  
network guy did all the install, and slowly started showing me tips  
and tricks to do in Terminal (Mac).

I'm very adept at configuring list via the web interface, but I now  
have a bit of a problem.

Recently, we decided to set up individual lists for each Kentucky  
county represented in our organization's BIG LIST.  I created these  
lists (120 in all) using the command lines, and they are now set up  
and running (though empty).   Problem is, I'd like to set the same  
bounce processing variables for each list, without having to go into  
the web interface to each individually (a huge time killer).

Is there anyway to do this kind of work globally via the command  
line?  Here are the configurations I would like to try and do all at  
one time, and I was wondering not only how to type the command, but  
also how to enter the values (whether integer or Yes/No):

Configs with values the are integers:

bounce_score_threshold
bounce_info_stale_after
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval

Configs with values that are Yes/No:

bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner
bounce_notify_owner_on_disable
bounce_notify_owner_on_removal


Also, I have yet to import email addresses into these 120 individual  
lists.  I have, however, separated all the lists into individual text  
files ("countyX.txt", "countyY.txt", etc.)  Is there a way (again) to  
do this import via the command line (thus bypassing the web interface?)

My apologies for the newbie questions, but I'm on a bit of a  
deadline, so I wanted to see if there was an answer before I blocked  
out the next 10 hours digging into 120 Mailman web interfaces...

Thank you!

Jeremy Horton


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jan 15 01:57:00 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 16:57:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hello and newbie question(s)
In-Reply-To: <B10FCEE8-AA6B-4F87-846A-1EFBB14FAA4D@lexpublib.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601141657000406e1b77036@msapiro>

J. Horton wrote:
>
>I'm very adept at configuring list via the web interface, but I now  
>have a bit of a problem.
>
>Recently, we decided to set up individual lists for each Kentucky  
>county represented in our organization's BIG LIST.  I created these  
>lists (120 in all) using the command lines, and they are now set up  
>and running (though empty).   Problem is, I'd like to set the same  
>bounce processing variables for each list, without having to go into  
>the web interface to each individually (a huge time killer).
>
>Is there anyway to do this kind of work globally via the command  
>line?  Here are the configurations I would like to try and do all at  
>one time, and I was wondering not only how to type the command, but  
>also how to enter the values (whether integer or Yes/No):

You need a combination of things.

bin/config_list -i file_name list_name

will do the work of configuring one list. Run

bin/config_list --help

for details of the command. Run

bin/config_list -o file_name some_list_name

to get an example of what things need to look like in the input file.
Keep in mind that the input file need have only those attributes you
want to change.

Then you need to wrap the above command in a shell script that will run
it for each list.


>Also, I have yet to import email addresses into these 120 individual  
>lists.  I have, however, separated all the lists into individual text  
>files ("countyX.txt", "countyY.txt", etc.)  Is there a way (again) to  
>do this import via the command line (thus bypassing the web interface?)


bin/add_members is what you want here. Again, run

bin/add_members --help

for details. and you'll need to wrap this in a shell script to run the
command once for each list/input combination.

I have no idea what the scripting commands look like in the Mac
Terminal shell, but this kind of script is fairly simple.

For example, suppose you have the listnames in a file named
/path/to/listnames, and further suppose for simplicity that the list
names are "countyX", "countyY", etc. as in the file names above.

Then if this were a *nix sh compatible shell, the script might look like

for name in `cat /path/to/listnames`
do bin/config_list -i /path/to/config/input ${name}
bin/add_members -r /path/to/${name}.txt -w n -a n ${name}
done


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From matt at giampapa.com  Sun Jan 15 02:40:49 2006
From: matt at giampapa.com (matt at giampapa.com)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:40:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Odd CGI problem
Message-ID: <10705.68.38.203.64.1137289249.squirrel@webmail.modwest.com>

Ok,

I'm installing mailman on FreeBSD 6.0 from ports and using apache 2.0.55.
I have the following in the virtual host definition.

    ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/"
    ScriptAlias /pipermail/ "/usr/local/mailmain/archives/public/"
    <Directory "/www/lists/mailman">
        AllowOverride None
        Options Indexes FollowSymLinks ExecCGI
        Order allow,deny
        Allow from all
    </Directory>
    <Directory "/www/lists/pipermail">
        AllowOverride None
        Options Indexes FollowSymLinks ExecCGI
        Order allow,deny
        Allow from all
    </Directory>
    AddHandler cgi-script .cgi

However, when I try to access /mailman/admin or /mailman/listinfo I get
alot of garbage... then this

Mailman CGI error!!!

--with-cgi-gidwebCGImail--with-mail-gid-S%sThe Mailman CGI wrapper
encountered a fatal error. This entry is being stored in your syslog:Group
mismatch error. Mailman expected the %s wrapper script to be executed as
group "%s", but the system's %s server executed the %s script as group
"%s". Try tweaking the %s server to run the script as group "%s", or
re-run configure, providing the command line option `%s=%s'.Failure to
find group name %s. Try adding this group to your system, or re-run
configure, providing an existing group name with the command line option
%s.wwwlistinfodriverMailman cgi-wrapper (listinfo)$FreeBSD:
src/lib/csu/i386-elf/crtn.S,v 1.6 2005/05/19

followed by more garbage.

I have tried setting apache to run as a user instead of nobody, but I stll
get the same thing. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Matt



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jan 15 03:34:04 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:34:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Odd CGI problem
In-Reply-To: <10705.68.38.203.64.1137289249.squirrel@webmail.modwest.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006011418340405465d6b2086@msapiro>

matt at giampapa.com wrote:
>
>I'm installing mailman on FreeBSD 6.0 from ports and using apache 2.0.55.
>I have the following in the virtual host definition.
>
>    ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/"
>    ScriptAlias /pipermail/ "/usr/local/mailmain/archives/public/"

This should be

    Alias /pipermail/ "/usr/local/mailmain/archives/public/"

not ScriptAlias.


>    <Directory "/www/lists/mailman">


This should be

    <Directory "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin">


>        AllowOverride None
>        Options Indexes FollowSymLinks ExecCGI
>        Order allow,deny
>        Allow from all
>    </Directory>
>    <Directory "/www/lists/pipermail">

This should be

    <Directory "/usr/local/mailmain/archives/public">


>        AllowOverride None
>        Options Indexes FollowSymLinks ExecCGI

Should be

        Options Indexes FollowSymLinks


>        Order allow,deny
>        Allow from all
>    </Directory>
>    AddHandler cgi-script .cgi


All this does is treat any files with .cgi extensions as cgi programs.
This is not normally reqired for Mailman.


>However, when I try to access /mailman/admin or /mailman/listinfo I get
>alot of garbage... then this
>
>Mailman CGI error!!!
>
>--with-cgi-gidwebCGImail--with-mail-gid-S%sThe Mailman CGI wrapper
>encountered a fatal error. This entry is being stored in your syslog:Group
>mismatch error. Mailman expected the %s wrapper script to be executed as
>group "%s", but the system's %s server executed the %s script as group
>"%s". Try tweaking the %s server to run the script as group "%s", or
>re-run configure, providing the command line option `%s=%s'.Failure to
>find group name %s. Try adding this group to your system, or re-run
>configure, providing an existing group name with the command line option
>%s.wwwlistinfodriverMailman cgi-wrapper (listinfo)$FreeBSD:
>src/lib/csu/i386-elf/crtn.S,v 1.6 2005/05/19
>
>followed by more garbage.


It looks like what you are getting is the result of Apache 'displaying'
the contents of the wrapper instead of executing it.

This may be the result of some of the above errors


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From carbonnb at gmail.com  Sun Jan 15 03:56:52 2006
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:56:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hello and newbie question(s)
In-Reply-To: <B10FCEE8-AA6B-4F87-846A-1EFBB14FAA4D@lexpublib.org>
References: <B10FCEE8-AA6B-4F87-846A-1EFBB14FAA4D@lexpublib.org>
Message-ID: <e04a6c920601141856o7b88107cj@mail.gmail.com>

On 14/01/06, J. Horton <jeremy at lexpublib.org> wrote:

> and running (though empty).   Problem is, I'd like to set the same
> bounce processing variables for each list, without having to go into
> the web interface to each individually (a huge time killer).
>
> Is there anyway to do this kind of work globally via the command
> line?  Here are the configurations I would like to try and do all at
> one time, and I was wondering not only how to type the command, but
> also how to enter the values (whether integer or Yes/No):

I use a shell script with a config file to do things like this.

The shell scripts (mm_cfg_change) is:

#!/bin/bash
# To use this script, change the variable in mm_cfg_change.dat to the
# variable you want changes and the new value you want to assign it
for i in $( /var/mailman/bin/list_lists -b); do
    /var/mailman/bin/config_list -i ./mm_cfg_change.dat $i
done

and the config file mm_cfg_change.dat hold a single line with the
variable and value:

max_days_to_hold=2

Then all you have to do is change the .dat file and not worry about
messing up the shell script.

To run the changes just use
./mm_cfg_change
and away it goes.

> Also, I have yet to import email addresses into these 120 individual
> lists.  I have, however, separated all the lists into individual text
> files ("countyX.txt", "countyY.txt", etc.)  Is there a way (again) to
> do this import via the command line (thus bypassing the web interface?)

I would imagine that this could be done in a similar fashion, but I've
nver done this before so ican't offer any advice.

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"


From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Sun Jan 15 03:59:37 2006
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 11:59:37 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with uuencoded attachments
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601141353000531fb77f313@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200601141353000531fb77f313@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43C9BA99.90308@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro wrote:


>> File "/usr/lib/python2.3/uu.py", line 139, in decode
>>   sys.stderr.write("Warning: %s\n" % str(v))
>> File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/MultiLogger.py", line 45, in write
>>   _logexc(logger, msg)
>> File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.py", line 22, in _logexc
>>   sys.__stderr__.write('Logging error: %s\n' % logger)
>>IOError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe
> 

> I think this could be fixed by changing
> "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 223 from
> 
>                     uu.decode(StringIO(payload+'\n'), sfp)
> 
> to
> 
>                     uu.decode(StringIO(payload+'\n'), sfp, quiet=True)
> 
> 


There should be other chances that Python builtin modules spew warnings 
to sys.stderr.  How about this patch for Logging/Utils.py to write these 
messages into syslog facility.



-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/
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From matt at giampapa.com  Sun Jan 15 06:18:33 2006
From: matt at giampapa.com (matt at giampapa.com)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 00:18:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Odd CGI problem
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006011418340405465d6b2086@msapiro>
References: <10705.68.38.203.64.1137289249.squirrel@webmail.modwest.com>
	<PC17402006011418340405465d6b2086@msapiro>
Message-ID: <11171.68.38.203.64.1137302313.squirrel@webmail.modwest.com>

Thanks Mark, unfortunately these changes still yield the same output. I
didn't put 2 and 2 together about it just displaying the file. At least
now I know apache isn't trying to execute it.

Anyone else have an idea?

Thanks,
Matt

> matt at giampapa.com wrote:
>>
>>I'm installing mailman on FreeBSD 6.0 from ports and using apache 2.0.55.
>>I have the following in the virtual host definition.
>>
>>    ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/"
>>    ScriptAlias /pipermail/ "/usr/local/mailmain/archives/public/"
>
> This should be
>
>     Alias /pipermail/ "/usr/local/mailmain/archives/public/"
>
> not ScriptAlias.
>
>
>>    <Directory "/www/lists/mailman">
>
>
> This should be
>
>     <Directory "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin">
>
>
>>        AllowOverride None
>>        Options Indexes FollowSymLinks ExecCGI
>>        Order allow,deny
>>        Allow from all
>>    </Directory>
>>    <Directory "/www/lists/pipermail">
>
> This should be
>
>     <Directory "/usr/local/mailmain/archives/public">
>
>
>>        AllowOverride None
>>        Options Indexes FollowSymLinks ExecCGI
>
> Should be
>
>         Options Indexes FollowSymLinks
>
>
>>        Order allow,deny
>>        Allow from all
>>    </Directory>
>>    AddHandler cgi-script .cgi
>
>
> All this does is treat any files with .cgi extensions as cgi programs.
> This is not normally reqired for Mailman.
>
>
>>However, when I try to access /mailman/admin or /mailman/listinfo I get
>>alot of garbage... then this
>>
>>Mailman CGI error!!!
>>
>>--with-cgi-gidwebCGImail--with-mail-gid-S%sThe Mailman CGI wrapper
>>encountered a fatal error. This entry is being stored in your
>> syslog:Group
>>mismatch error. Mailman expected the %s wrapper script to be executed as
>>group "%s", but the system's %s server executed the %s script as group
>>"%s". Try tweaking the %s server to run the script as group "%s", or
>>re-run configure, providing the command line option `%s=%s'.Failure to
>>find group name %s. Try adding this group to your system, or re-run
>>configure, providing an existing group name with the command line option
>>%s.wwwlistinfodriverMailman cgi-wrapper (listinfo)$FreeBSD:
>>src/lib/csu/i386-elf/crtn.S,v 1.6 2005/05/19
>>
>>followed by more garbage.
>
>
> It looks like what you are getting is the result of Apache 'displaying'
> the contents of the wrapper instead of executing it.
>
> This may be the result of some of the above errors
>
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
>
>




From matt at giampapa.com  Sun Jan 15 06:58:30 2006
From: matt at giampapa.com (matt at giampapa.com)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 00:58:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Odd CGI problem
In-Reply-To: <11171.68.38.203.64.1137302313.squirrel@webmail.modwest.com>
References: <10705.68.38.203.64.1137289249.squirrel@webmail.modwest.com>
	<PC17402006011418340405465d6b2086@msapiro>
	<11171.68.38.203.64.1137302313.squirrel@webmail.modwest.com>
Message-ID: <11361.68.38.203.64.1137304710.squirrel@webmail.modwest.com>

Ok, fixed it... forgot to Load the cgi module.. duh

Thanks,
Matt

> Thanks Mark, unfortunately these changes still yield the same output. I
> didn't put 2 and 2 together about it just displaying the file. At least
> now I know apache isn't trying to execute it.
>
> Anyone else have an idea?
>
> Thanks,
> Matt
>
>> matt at giampapa.com wrote:
>>>
>>>I'm installing mailman on FreeBSD 6.0 from ports and using apache
>>> 2.0.55.
>>>I have the following in the virtual host definition.
>>>
>>>    ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/"
>>>    ScriptAlias /pipermail/ "/usr/local/mailmain/archives/public/"
>>
>> This should be
>>
>>     Alias /pipermail/ "/usr/local/mailmain/archives/public/"
>>
>> not ScriptAlias.
>>
>>
>>>    <Directory "/www/lists/mailman">
>>
>>
>> This should be
>>
>>     <Directory "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin">
>>
>>
>>>        AllowOverride None
>>>        Options Indexes FollowSymLinks ExecCGI
>>>        Order allow,deny
>>>        Allow from all
>>>    </Directory>
>>>    <Directory "/www/lists/pipermail">
>>
>> This should be
>>
>>     <Directory "/usr/local/mailmain/archives/public">
>>
>>
>>>        AllowOverride None
>>>        Options Indexes FollowSymLinks ExecCGI
>>
>> Should be
>>
>>         Options Indexes FollowSymLinks
>>
>>
>>>        Order allow,deny
>>>        Allow from all
>>>    </Directory>
>>>    AddHandler cgi-script .cgi
>>
>>
>> All this does is treat any files with .cgi extensions as cgi programs.
>> This is not normally reqired for Mailman.
>>
>>
>>>However, when I try to access /mailman/admin or /mailman/listinfo I get
>>>alot of garbage... then this
>>>
>>>Mailman CGI error!!!
>>>
>>>--with-cgi-gidwebCGImail--with-mail-gid-S%sThe Mailman CGI wrapper
>>>encountered a fatal error. This entry is being stored in your
>>> syslog:Group
>>>mismatch error. Mailman expected the %s wrapper script to be executed as
>>>group "%s", but the system's %s server executed the %s script as group
>>>"%s". Try tweaking the %s server to run the script as group "%s", or
>>>re-run configure, providing the command line option `%s=%s'.Failure to
>>>find group name %s. Try adding this group to your system, or re-run
>>>configure, providing an existing group name with the command line option
>>>%s.wwwlistinfodriverMailman cgi-wrapper (listinfo)$FreeBSD:
>>>src/lib/csu/i386-elf/crtn.S,v 1.6 2005/05/19
>>>
>>>followed by more garbage.
>>
>>
>> It looks like what you are getting is the result of Apache 'displaying'
>> the contents of the wrapper instead of executing it.
>>
>> This may be the result of some of the above errors
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/matt%40giampapa.com
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>
>
>




From myozaw at ait.ac.th  Sun Jan 15 08:55:10 2006
From: myozaw at ait.ac.th (Myo Zaw Nyunt)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 14:55:10 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't find smrsh wrapper in sendmail
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060114093700064076201460@msapiro>
References: <PC174020060114093700064076201460@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1137311710.43c9ffdea10af@webmail.ait.ac.th>

Dear Mark,

Thanks for your reply. But after I read this article at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-June/037514.html, I do not
understand very well about this section. I can't find /etc/sudoers fiels in my
FreeBSD.

4. We need permission for apache and mailman to run our script from step 1.
In the /etc/sudoers file (use the command /usr/sbin/visudo) we need two
lines:
apache ALL= NOPASSWD: /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases
mailman ALL= NOPASSWD: /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases

And I still get userunkonw as bounced back mail.

I created for mailman aliases file like this : for example I created list named
"test" and members in this list are test1 at server.com and test2 at server.com

So, I created as:

test       test1 test2

Is that right?

I can use mailman adimn and create new lists from web interface.

Thanks,
MyoGyi










Quoting Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>:

> Myo Zaw Nyunt wrote:
> >
> >As I am a new mailman user, I have a problem in using it. I can't find
> "smrsh
> >wrapper in my sendmail program according to this article
> >http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node32.html. I am using
> >freebsd 5.3 with sendmail 8.13.1.
>
>
> If you can't find 'smrsh' in your sendmail.cf per
> <http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node32.html> then
> probably your sendmail is not using smrsh which means that this
> section (6.3.1) of the installation manual doesn't apply to you. Also,
> section 6.3.2 is only for 'unusual' situations so skip that too.
>
>
> >Next quesiton is do I need to create a user account manually for each
> mailing
> >list. I got a bounce mail back for my "Test" mailing list becase the sytem
> said
> >I don't have this "test at domain.com" account.
>
>
> No. You need aliases.
>
>
> >Or, do I need to add aliases in /etc/mail/aliases. If, how do I add?
>
>
> If you really mean 'how', the answer is 'with a text editor'. Also see
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.049.htp>.
>
> If you mean 'what', if you haven't overridden the Defaults.py
> MTA='Manual' setting, the list creation process should inform you of
> the required aliases.
>
> Here is a typical set for the site list named 'mailman'
>
> ## mailman mailing list
> mailman:            "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
> mailman-admin:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
> mailman-bounces:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
> mailman-confirm:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
> mailman-join:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
> mailman-leave:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
> mailman-owner:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
> mailman-request:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
> mailman-subscribe:  "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
> mailman-unsubscribe:"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe
> mailman"
>
> The '/usr/local/mailman' part of the path is the default, but may be
> diferent if you specified different directories via the --prefix= or
> --exec-prefix= options to configure. Also, some of the above lines may
> be wrapped.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>




----------------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through AIT WebMail : http://www.ait.ac.th/



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jan 15 16:21:18 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 07:21:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't find smrsh wrapper in sendmail
In-Reply-To: <1137311710.43c9ffdea10af@webmail.ait.ac.th>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601150721180156596348ce@msapiro>

Myo Zaw Nyunt wrote:
>
>Thanks for your reply. But after I read this article at
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-June/037514.html, I do not
>understand very well about this section. I can't find /etc/sudoers fiels in my
>FreeBSD.


You probably have to create it. See 'man sudo'. BUT, you don't have to
follow the procedure in the above post. It is for automating Mailman
alias creation with sendmail.

I suggest you just create aliases manually until you get sendmail
properly delivering to your list(s). Then you can go back and do the
procedure outlined in the above post if you wish.

I.e., start with MTA='Manual' and manually add aliases for the
'mailman' list and your test list to /etc/aliases. Then, only after
everything is working, consider doing the above. If you are not going
to be adding and/or deleting lists frequently, you can probably just
stay with a manual process for aliases.



>And I still get userunkonw as bounced back mail.
>
>I created for mailman aliases file like this : for example I created list named
>"test" and members in this list are test1 at server.com and test2 at server.com
>
>So, I created as:
>
>test       test1 test2
>
>Is that right?


No. That would not use Mailman at all. You want sendmail to deliver
mail to 'test' to Mailman, and Mailman resends to 'test1 and test2'.
If sendmail is rerouting mail to 'test' to 'test1 and test2', you
aren't using Mailman at all.


See my prior response that you quote below for the form of these aliases
You need the folowing aliases for the 'mailman' site list which you
must have (quoted from my prior post).

>>
>> Here is a typical set for the site list named 'mailman'
>>
>> ## mailman mailing list
>> mailman:            "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
>> mailman-admin:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
>> mailman-bounces:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
>> mailman-confirm:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
>> mailman-join:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
>> mailman-leave:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
>> mailman-owner:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
>> mailman-request:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
>> mailman-subscribe:  "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
>> mailman-unsubscribe:"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"
>>

You also need a set for your 'test' list as follows, and similarly for
each additional list you create.

## test mailing list
test:            "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post test"
test-admin:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin test"
test-bounces:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces test"
test-confirm:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm test"
test-join:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join test"
test-leave:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave test"
test-owner:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner test"
test-request:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request test"
test-subscribe:  "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe test"
test-unsubscribe:"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe test"

Also note from my prior post -
>> The '/usr/local/mailman' part of the path is the default, but may be
>> diferent if you specified different directories via the --prefix= or
>> --exec-prefix= options to configure. Also, some of the above lines may
>> be wrapped.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jan 15 16:40:29 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 07:40:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with uuencoded attachments
In-Reply-To: <43C9BA99.90308@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC174020060115074029042175a77902@msapiro>

Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
>
>There should be other chances that Python builtin modules spew warnings 
>to sys.stderr.  How about this patch for Logging/Utils.py to write these 
>messages into syslog facility.

The patch looks good to me, and I think is a good thing in general.
It's clearly better than supressing warnings one at a time.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From barry at python.org  Sun Jan 15 16:49:47 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 10:49:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] Problems with uuencoded
	attachments
In-Reply-To: <43C9BA99.90308@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <PC1740200601141353000531fb77f313@msapiro>
	<43C9BA99.90308@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <91129E11-A54A-4236-BA17-8C2CD0B96782@python.org>

On Jan 14, 2006, at 9:59 PM, Tokio Kikuchi wrote:

> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>
>>> File "/usr/lib/python2.3/uu.py", line 139, in decode
>>>   sys.stderr.write("Warning: %s\n" % str(v))
>>> File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/MultiLogger.py", line 45,  
>>> in write
>>>   _logexc(logger, msg)
>>> File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.py", line 22, in  
>>> _logexc
>>>   sys.__stderr__.write('Logging error: %s\n' % logger)
>>> IOError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe
>
>> I think this could be fixed by changing
>> "/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 223 from
>>                     uu.decode(StringIO(payload+'\n'), sfp)
>> to
>>                     uu.decode(StringIO(payload+'\n'), sfp,  
>> quiet=True)
>
>
> There should be other chances that Python builtin modules spew  
> warnings to sys.stderr.  How about this patch for Logging/Utils.py  
> to write these messages into syslog facility.

The only problem is that currently Mailman does not use the syslog  
module, and I'm uncomfortable with adding it for this one situation  
(are there others?).  We should definitely be passing the quiet flag  
to uu.decode(), but OTOH maybe we should also be testing whether  
sys.__stderr__ is detached and then redirecting that to logs/errors?

-Barry



From jeremy at lexpublib.org  Sun Jan 15 19:47:52 2006
From: jeremy at lexpublib.org (J. Horton)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 13:47:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hello and newbie question(s)
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601141657000406e1b77036@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200601141657000406e1b77036@msapiro>
Message-ID: <3113D3DB-EA3D-4EDC-A796-CC1E2D4A2A28@lexpublib.org>

Thank you to Mark and Bryan for the help.  Trying to figure out what  
this all this means (I'm still in the deep water.)  I've asked our  
network guy to take a look, though I know I'm driving him crazy.

I might perhaps need to come back and ask some for some further  
simplification, but here's hoping I can figure it out.

Thanks again!

Jeremy

On Jan 14, 2006, at 7:57 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> J. Horton wrote:
>>
>> I'm very adept at configuring list via the web interface, but I now
>> have a bit of a problem.
>>
>> Recently, we decided to set up individual lists for each Kentucky
>> county represented in our organization's BIG LIST.  I created these
>> lists (120 in all) using the command lines, and they are now set up
>> and running (though empty).   Problem is, I'd like to set the same
>> bounce processing variables for each list, without having to go into
>> the web interface to each individually (a huge time killer).
>>
>> Is there anyway to do this kind of work globally via the command
>> line?  Here are the configurations I would like to try and do all at
>> one time, and I was wondering not only how to type the command, but
>> also how to enter the values (whether integer or Yes/No):
>
> You need a combination of things.
>
> bin/config_list -i file_name list_name
>
> will do the work of configuring one list. Run
>
> bin/config_list --help
>
> for details of the command. Run
>
> bin/config_list -o file_name some_list_name
>
> to get an example of what things need to look like in the input file.
> Keep in mind that the input file need have only those attributes you
> want to change.
>
> Then you need to wrap the above command in a shell script that will  
> run
> it for each list.
>
>
>> Also, I have yet to import email addresses into these 120 individual
>> lists.  I have, however, separated all the lists into individual text
>> files ("countyX.txt", "countyY.txt", etc.)  Is there a way (again) to
>> do this import via the command line (thus bypassing the web  
>> interface?)
>
>
> bin/add_members is what you want here. Again, run
>
> bin/add_members --help
>
> for details. and you'll need to wrap this in a shell script to run the
> command once for each list/input combination.
>
> I have no idea what the scripting commands look like in the Mac
> Terminal shell, but this kind of script is fairly simple.
>
> For example, suppose you have the listnames in a file named
> /path/to/listnames, and further suppose for simplicity that the list
> names are "countyX", "countyY", etc. as in the file names above.
>
> Then if this were a *nix sh compatible shell, the script might look  
> like
>
> for name in `cat /path/to/listnames`
> do bin/config_list -i /path/to/config/input ${name}
> bin/add_members -r /path/to/${name}.txt -w n -a n ${name}
> done
>
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>



From david at midrange.com  Mon Jan 16 01:14:00 2006
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:14:00 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SpamDetect loop?
In-Reply-To: <43C5A005.4060905@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <PC17402006011112484904375f387986@msapiro>	<43C57660.4020304@midrange.com>
	<43C57C25.7090804@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <43C57D34.70403@midrange.com>
	<43C5A005.4060905@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <43CAE548.1090400@midrange.com>

Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
> Can you test this patch?

Seems to be working fine.

david


From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Mon Jan 16 01:25:08 2006
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:25:08 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] Problems with uuencoded
 attachments
In-Reply-To: <91129E11-A54A-4236-BA17-8C2CD0B96782@python.org>
References: <PC1740200601141353000531fb77f313@msapiro>	<43C9BA99.90308@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
	<91129E11-A54A-4236-BA17-8C2CD0B96782@python.org>
Message-ID: <43CAE7E4.2060801@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Jan 14, 2006, at 9:59 PM, Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
> 
> 
>>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>>File "/usr/lib/python2.3/uu.py", line 139, in decode
>>>>  sys.stderr.write("Warning: %s\n" % str(v))
>>>>File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/MultiLogger.py", line 45,  
>>>>in write
>>>>  _logexc(logger, msg)
>>>>File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.py", line 22, in  
>>>>_logexc
>>>>  sys.__stderr__.write('Logging error: %s\n' % logger)
>>>>IOError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe
>>
>>>I think this could be fixed by changing
>>>"/usr/lib/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 223 from
>>>                    uu.decode(StringIO(payload+'\n'), sfp)
>>>to
>>>                    uu.decode(StringIO(payload+'\n'), sfp,  
>>>quiet=True)
>>
>>
>>There should be other chances that Python builtin modules spew  
>>warnings to sys.stderr.  How about this patch for Logging/Utils.py  
>>to write these messages into syslog facility.
> 
> 
> The only problem is that currently Mailman does not use the syslog  
> module, and I'm uncomfortable with adding it for this one situation  
> (are there others?).  We should definitely be passing the quiet flag  
> to uu.decode(), but OTOH maybe we should also be testing whether  
> sys.__stderr__ is detached and then redirecting that to logs/errors?
> 
In usual mailman qrunner execs, stderr is logged into logs/errors.  It 
is the additional tee_to_real_stderr in LogStdErr() setting which wants 
to print the error into real stderr.

Isn't it safe to put the tee_to_real_stderr value 0 in bin/qrunner script ?


-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/


From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Mon Jan 16 01:37:40 2006
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:37:40 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SpamDetect loop?
In-Reply-To: <43CAE548.1090400@midrange.com>
References: <PC17402006011112484904375f387986@msapiro>	<43C57660.4020304@midrange.com>	<43C57C25.7090804@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
	<43C57D34.70403@midrange.com>	<43C5A005.4060905@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
	<43CAE548.1090400@midrange.com>
Message-ID: <43CAEAD4.4070501@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

David Gibbs wrote:
> Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
> 
>>Can you test this patch?
> 
> 
> Seems to be working fine.
> 
> david
> 
> 
> 
Thank you David.  I changed the patch slightly and checked into the CVS. 
  See also this patch tracker entry:
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1405790&group_id=103&atid=300103

Cheers,
-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/


From barry at python.org  Mon Jan 16 02:31:49 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 20:31:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] Problems with
	uuencoded	attachments
In-Reply-To: <43CAE7E4.2060801@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <PC1740200601141353000531fb77f313@msapiro>
	<43C9BA99.90308@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
	<91129E11-A54A-4236-BA17-8C2CD0B96782@python.org>
	<43CAE7E4.2060801@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <1137375109.5898.34.camel@geddy.wooz.org>

On Mon, 2006-01-16 at 09:25 +0900, Tokio Kikuchi wrote:

> In usual mailman qrunner execs, stderr is logged into logs/errors.  It 
> is the additional tee_to_real_stderr in LogStdErr() setting which wants 
> to print the error into real stderr.
> 
> Isn't it safe to put the tee_to_real_stderr value 0 in bin/qrunner script ?

Ideally, tee_to_real_stderr would be !AS_SUBPROC (i.e. tee when not
running qrunner under mailmanctl).  That would have to be done in main()
after processing the command line arguments.

-Barry

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From joe at techieworld.org  Wed Jan 11 17:33:27 2006
From: joe at techieworld.org (joe at techieworld.org)
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 16:33:27 -0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman setup help....
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1403.1137008627.27774.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.1403.1137008627.27774.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <58140.131.193.35.159.1136997207.squirrel@esamir.com>

Hi all,

  I'm running postfix with virtual host and mysql.
I mainly followed the following guide:
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/virt-mail-howto.xml


I was wondering if there was any mailman documentation that is more
detailed.  I ran through the setup instructions and as far as I can tell.
it's just not doing anything... added the aliases etc.  The owner is not
getting notified.. nor can I send/receive emails sent to that account.

Any ideas suggestion would be appreciated.

Joe.






From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Mon Jan 16 03:03:47 2006
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:03:47 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] Problems with	uuencoded
 attachments
In-Reply-To: <1137375109.5898.34.camel@geddy.wooz.org>
References: <PC1740200601141353000531fb77f313@msapiro>	<43C9BA99.90308@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>	<91129E11-A54A-4236-BA17-8C2CD0B96782@python.org>	<43CAE7E4.2060801@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
	<1137375109.5898.34.camel@geddy.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <43CAFF03.9010401@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Mon, 2006-01-16 at 09:25 +0900, Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
> 
> 
>>In usual mailman qrunner execs, stderr is logged into logs/errors.  It 
>>is the additional tee_to_real_stderr in LogStdErr() setting which wants 
>>to print the error into real stderr.
>>
>>Isn't it safe to put the tee_to_real_stderr value 0 in bin/qrunner script ?
> 
> 
> Ideally, tee_to_real_stderr would be !AS_SUBPROC (i.e. tee when not
> running qrunner under mailmanctl).  That would have to be done in main()
> after processing the command line arguments.
> 
Yeah, I noticed that too and played around.  How about this patch.

I assumed running qrunner independently is for debugging purpose and
quit redirecting stderr into logs/error.

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/
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From nospam2 at mcswartz.org  Mon Jan 16 03:23:54 2006
From: nospam2 at mcswartz.org (John Swartzentruber)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 21:23:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages shunted and kept out of archives
Message-ID: <dqf03q$uno$1@sea.gmane.org>

I recently upgraded to Mailman 2.1.7. A user (and co-moderator) on one 
of the lists that I run reported that some of his messages were missing 
from the archives and that one of them had been delivered to him without 
  the normal Mailman footers and subject modification.

I looked into it today and saw that there were three messages in the 
shunt directory. At least one of these was the primary message that we 
had discovered was missing from the archives.

I tried bin/unshunt, but it had no affect. The information from the 
error log is as follows:

Jan 15 19:39:13 2006 (7863) Uncaught runner exception: 'ascii' codec 
can't decode byte 0xe4 in position 5749: ordinal not in range(128)
Jan 15 19:39:13 2006 (7863) Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in 
_dispose
     mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 216, in 
ArchiveMail
     h.processUnixMailbox(f)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 585, in 
processUnixMailbox
     self.add_article(a)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 626, in 
add_article
     filename))
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 1116, 
in write_article
     f.write(article.as_text())
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 579, in 
as_text
     '\g<1>' + _(' at ') + '\g<2>', body)
   File "/usr/lib/python2.3/sre.py", line 143, in sub
     return _compile(pattern, 0).sub(repl, string, count)
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe4 in position 
5749: ordinal not in range(128)

Jan 15 19:39:13 2006 (7863) SHUNTING: 
1137283434.787801+8fcbe00f31f4008afd66221d0d9397ade1228077



Because this is a new problem, I decided to try downgrading back to 
2.1.6 (by running "make install" in the 2.1.6 source directory). After I 
did this and ran bin/unshunt, the shunt directory was empty. 
Unfortunately, I'm an idiot and I didn't look to see whether it was the 
downgrade or the unshunt that emptied the directory. I also then ran 
bin/arch to rebuild the archives, and the previously missing message now 
shows up.

So it is possible that there is a problem introduced in 2.1.7, or it is 
possible that I still have the problem, but have worked around it. In 
case it is the former, I'm reporting it here. It seems like this might 
be similar to the "Shunting msgs." thread from a couple weeks ago, but 
that person was running 2.1.6.

I'll be happy to attempt to provide additional information if I can. 
This is just a personal server that I also use to host two or three 
small mailing lists.



From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Mon Jan 16 03:44:15 2006
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:44:15 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages shunted and kept out of archives
In-Reply-To: <dqf03q$uno$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <dqf03q$uno$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <43CB087F.6010204@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

John Swartzentruber wrote:
> I recently upgraded to Mailman 2.1.7. A user (and co-moderator) on one 
> of the lists that I run reported that some of his messages were missing 
> from the archives and that one of them had been delivered to him without 
>   the normal Mailman footers and subject modification.
> 

>    File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 579, in 
> as_text
>      '\g<1>' + _(' at ') + '\g<2>', body)
>    File "/usr/lib/python2.3/sre.py", line 143, in sub
>      return _compile(pattern, 0).sub(repl, string, count)
> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe4 in position 
> 5749: ordinal not in range(128)
> 
> Jan 15 19:39:13 2006 (7863) SHUNTING: 
> 1137283434.787801+8fcbe00f31f4008afd66221d0d9397ade1228077
> 

Please fetch this patch from SF tracker and apply it in mailman-2.1.7 
source.
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1405790&group_id=103&atid=300103

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jan 16 06:51:21 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 21:51:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman setup help....
In-Reply-To: <58140.131.193.35.159.1136997207.squirrel@esamir.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006011521512100318150e834@msapiro>

joe at techieworld.org wrote:
>
>  I'm running postfix with virtual host and mysql.
>I mainly followed the following guide:
>http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/virt-mail-howto.xml
>
>
>I was wondering if there was any mailman documentation that is more
>detailed.  I ran through the setup instructions and as far as I can tell.
>it's just not doing anything... added the aliases etc.  The owner is not
>getting notified.. nor can I send/receive emails sent to that account.


It is not clear to me from your post whether your problem is in
delivery from postfix to Mailman, or if it is Mailman not processing
messages after receipt.

Are your qrunners running? (bin/mailmanctl start)

You may find the following helpful

<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html>

<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From nospam2 at mcswartz.org  Mon Jan 16 15:28:45 2006
From: nospam2 at mcswartz.org (John Swartzentruber)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 09:28:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages shunted and kept out of archives
In-Reply-To: <43CB087F.6010204@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <dqf03q$uno$1@sea.gmane.org> <43CB087F.6010204@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <dqgait$q7i$1@sea.gmane.org>

On 1/15/2006 9:44 PM Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
> John Swartzentruber wrote:
>> I recently upgraded to Mailman 2.1.7. A user (and co-moderator) on one 
>> of the lists that I run reported that some of his messages were missing 
>> from the archives and that one of them had been delivered to him without 
>>   the normal Mailman footers and subject modification.
>>
> 
>>    File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 579, in 
>> as_text
>>      '\g<1>' + _(' at ') + '\g<2>', body)
>>    File "/usr/lib/python2.3/sre.py", line 143, in sub
>>      return _compile(pattern, 0).sub(repl, string, count)
>> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe4 in position 
>> 5749: ordinal not in range(128)
>>
>> Jan 15 19:39:13 2006 (7863) SHUNTING: 
>> 1137283434.787801+8fcbe00f31f4008afd66221d0d9397ade1228077
>>
> 
> Please fetch this patch from SF tracker and apply it in mailman-2.1.7 
> source.
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1405790&group_id=103&atid=300103

Thanks for your quick reply. I've applied the patch and reinstalled 
2.1.7. Now I just need to have some list activity to verify that it all 
works. Thanks again for your help.





From BScriber at icat.com  Tue Jan 17 00:21:39 2006
From: BScriber at icat.com (Scriber, Brian)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 16:21:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (Beer) problem accessing the archive (403)
Message-ID: <E323160E08E560459CD05A883546C3CE050D4C50@earthquake.ICAT.COM>

I have completed the installation and everything seems to be working
perfectly... except being able to access the archives for my lists.

I have searched the archives and it seems like many people have had this
problem in the past, but the solutions which seem to have worked for
them do not appear to be solving my configuration issues.

This is the error message I'm receiving:

Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /pipermail/is_pmc_interest/ on this
server.
Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use
an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
  _____  
Apache/2.0.47 (Linux/SuSE) Server at jedi.icat.com Port 80



I have run the check_perms script and I have no errors.
I have the following configuration in my default-server.conf apache
file:

#########################
####   MAILMAN
#########################

ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/"

<Directory "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/">
	AllowOverride None
	Options ExecCGI
	Order allow,deny
	Allow from all
</Directory>

Alias /pipermail/ "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/"

<Directory "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/">
	AddDefaultCharset Off
	Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks
	AllowOverride None
	Order allow,deny
	Allow from all
</Directory>

RedirectMatch /mailman[/]*$ http://jedi.icat.com/mailman/listinfo

#########################
#####   End Mailman
#########################



Has anyone else run across this problem and solved it?
Getting to the archives is my primary objective, but I'm curious about
the third line in the error page as well.  Ideas?
If you're anwhere near the Denver area I'd be happy to thank you for
your help (beer).

Thanks in advance for even reading this far!
Brian A. Scriber

 
Confidentiality Note: This message contains information that may be confidential and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not use, copy, disclose, distribute or take any action based on this message. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply email and delete this message. Although ICAT Managers, LLC scans e-mail and attachments for viruses, it does not guarantee that either are virus-free and accepts no liability for any damage sustained as a result of viruses.  Thank you.



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan 17 01:36:39 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 16:36:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (Beer) problem accessing the archive (403)
In-Reply-To: <E323160E08E560459CD05A883546C3CE050D4C50@earthquake.ICAT.COM>
Message-ID: <PC174020060116163639004665cf71d5@msapiro>

Scriber, Brian wrote:
>
>This is the error message I'm receiving:
>
>Forbidden
>You don't have permission to access /pipermail/is_pmc_interest/ on this
>server.
>Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use
>an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
>  _____  
>Apache/2.0.47 (Linux/SuSE) Server at jedi.icat.com Port 80
>
>
>
>I have run the check_perms script and I have no errors.
>I have the following configuration in my default-server.conf apache
>file:
>
>#########################
>####   MAILMAN
>#########################
>
>ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/"
>
><Directory "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/">
>	AllowOverride None
>	Options ExecCGI
>	Order allow,deny
>	Allow from all
></Directory>
>
>Alias /pipermail/ "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/"
>
><Directory "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/">
>	AddDefaultCharset Off
>	Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks
>	AllowOverride None
>	Order allow,deny
>	Allow from all
></Directory>
>
>RedirectMatch /mailman[/]*$ http://jedi.icat.com/mailman/listinfo


This is not the cause of your problem, but the above should be

RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$ http://jedi.icat.com/mailman/listinfo

or you'll have difficulty reaching the admin pages for the 'mailman'
list.


>#########################
>#####   End Mailman
>#########################
>
>
>
>Has anyone else run across this problem and solved it?


Lots of people have solved it, but the solution depends on the cause
which we don't yet know in your case.

Are you perhaps running SELinux or some other 'enhanced' access
controls that might be blocking your access?


>Getting to the archives is my primary objective, but I'm curious about
>the third line in the error page as well.  Ideas?


You can probably access the archives via
<http://jedi.icat.com/mailman/private/is_pmc_interest/> except that
way requires authorization as a list owner or member, and when I try
it, I find no DNS entry for jedi.icat.com.

As far as the 403 on attempting to access an error document is
concerned, check your Apache error_log and see what it says. You might
get additional info about the initial error too.


>If you're anwhere near the Denver area I'd be happy to thank you for
>your help (beer).


Sorry, it's a bit far for me to go :-)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From nospam2 at mcswartz.org  Tue Jan 17 15:37:44 2006
From: nospam2 at mcswartz.org (John Swartzentruber)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 09:37:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (Beer) problem accessing the archive (403)
In-Reply-To: <E323160E08E560459CD05A883546C3CE050D4C50@earthquake.ICAT.COM>
References: <E323160E08E560459CD05A883546C3CE050D4C50@earthquake.ICAT.COM>
Message-ID: <dqivfp$4vf$1@sea.gmane.org>

On 1/16/2006 6:21 PM Scriber, Brian wrote:
> I have completed the installation and everything seems to be working
> perfectly... except being able to access the archives for my lists.
> 
> I have searched the archives and it seems like many people have had this
> problem in the past, but the solutions which seem to have worked for
> them do not appear to be solving my configuration issues.
> 
> This is the error message I'm receiving:
> 
> Forbidden
> You don't have permission to access /pipermail/is_pmc_interest/ on this
> server.
> Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use
> an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
>   _____  
> Apache/2.0.47 (Linux/SuSE) Server at jedi.icat.com Port 80

<snip>

> Has anyone else run across this problem and solved it?
> Getting to the archives is my primary objective, but I'm curious about
> the third line in the error page as well.  Ideas?
> If you're anwhere near the Denver area I'd be happy to thank you for
> your help (beer).

After I upgraded to 2.1.7, I encountered a similar problem when 
accessing scrubbed attachments for a list (this list didn't have 
archives, but the scrubbed attachments are stored with the archives). 
They were working sometime before the upgrade, but not after. As in your 
case, check_perms didn't help. I believe what I did was change the 
ownership on one of the archive directories. It might have been 
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private, but I forget for sure. I believe I 
changed the owner from "root" to "apache" or something like that. 
Basically I fiddled around with stuff until it started working. I'm 
running Fedora, so you might need to change "apache" to whatever is 
appropriate under SuSE.

I know this isn't very specific or helpful, but it might give you a 
direction to look.


> Thanks in advance for even reading this far!
> Brian A. Scriber



From carbonnb at gmail.com  Tue Jan 17 15:54:22 2006
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 09:54:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (Beer) problem accessing the archive (403)
In-Reply-To: <E323160E08E560459CD05A883546C3CE050D4C50@earthquake.ICAT.COM>
References: <E323160E08E560459CD05A883546C3CE050D4C50@earthquake.ICAT.COM>
Message-ID: <e04a6c920601170654p261c6afcm@mail.gmail.com>

On 16/01/06, Scriber, Brian <BScriber at icat.com> wrote:
> I have completed the installation and everything seems to be working
> perfectly... except being able to access the archives for my lists.
>
> I have searched the archives and it seems like many people have had this
> problem in the past, but the solutions which seem to have worked for
> them do not appear to be solving my configuration issues.
>
> This is the error message I'm receiving:
>
> Forbidden
> You don't have permission to access /pipermail/is_pmc_interest/ on this
> server.
> Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use
> an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

<snip>

> Has anyone else run across this problem and solved it?
> Getting to the archives is my primary objective, but I'm curious about
> the third line in the error page as well.  Ideas?
> If you're anwhere near the Denver area I'd be happy to thank you for
> your help (beer).

Have a look at the warning box at http://list.org/mailman-install/node9.html

There are some permission issues that may be affecting the installation.

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"


From christer.edwards at gmail.com  Tue Jan 17 19:19:36 2006
From: christer.edwards at gmail.com (Christer Edwards)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 11:19:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installation & combining with apache
Message-ID: <9dbd3d650601171019x16b93564odcfd9f68fb76d470@mail.gmail.com>

I have not been able to completely understand the instructions
included in the docs concerning installing mailman to an apache
virtual host machine (ie; I host multiple sites on a single machine).

I have mailman installed following the instructions but I am stuck
after that point in joining it with apache & a specific domain for
access.

Thank you in advance

From lists at nabble.com  Tue Jan 17 20:44:02 2006
From: lists at nabble.com (JaclynF (sent by Nabble.com))
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 11:44:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help getting list info from mailman
Message-ID: <2432315.post@talk.nabble.com>


Hi-

I'm running a mailman listserv through my webserver's cpanelx interface.  I'm trying to get a complete list of the subscribed emails (nearly 2500) using the who and/or list_members commands.  The security is set so that list members can see who's on the list.  I've used this command successfully on smaller lists I run, but I keep getting blank responses on this one.  Here's an example:

The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your
original message.

- Results:
   Ignoring non-text/plain MIME parts

- Done.


Any help or advice would be ridiculously welcome.

Best,
Jaclyn
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Help-getting-list-info-from-mailman-t938820.html#a2432315
Sent from the Mailman - Users forum at Nabble.com.


From zackbeatty at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 17 21:04:19 2006
From: zackbeatty at yahoo.com (Zack Beatty)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 12:04:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] user is removed, but they still receive list emails
Message-ID: <20060117200419.60249.qmail@web30510.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I've removed sevaral list members, using the Mailman
Admin interface.  However, they're still gettting my
mailings, and are threatening to complain to the spam
cops?  I've double checked to confirm that these email
addresses are NOT in my membership list.

What's the deal?

ZB

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From jaclyn at centerfornewwords.org  Tue Jan 17 21:27:38 2006
From: jaclyn at centerfornewwords.org (Center for New Words)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:27:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] trouble getting subscriber list
Message-ID: <1552fdf6701eceb33e1451870825beda@centerfornewwords.org>

I'm running a listserv through my webserver's cpanelx interface, and 
I'm trying to get a list of all of my listserv members.  I'm using 
"list_members" and "who" and they're coming back blank like the message 
below. Security is set so all list members can see who's on the list.   
I've used "who" on other (smaller) lists run on the same system and it 
works.  The list in question has about 2500 members.  Could that be a 
problem, and either way, can you help me figure out how to get the list 
of my members?

Best,
Jaclyn Friedman

> The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your
> original message.
>
> - Results:
>    Ignoring non-text/plain MIME parts
>
> - Done.


________________________
Center for New Words
Where Women's Words Matter

617-876-5310
www.centerfornewwords.org

7 Temple Street
Cambridge, MA  02139



From rb at islandnet.com  Tue Jan 17 21:20:31 2006
From: rb at islandnet.com (Ron Brogden)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 12:20:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] user is removed,
	but they still receive list emails
In-Reply-To: <20060117200419.60249.qmail@web30510.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060117200419.60249.qmail@web30510.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200601171220.31491.rb@islandnet.com>

On Tuesday 17 January 2006 12:04, Zack Beatty wrote:
> I've removed sevaral list members, using the Mailman
> Admin interface.  However, they're still gettting my
> mailings, and are threatening to complain to the spam
> cops?  I've double checked to confirm that these email
> addresses are NOT in my membership list.

Howdy.  Have you asked this user to forward you one of the messages they have 
received with all headers intact so you can a) see if it even originated with 
your server and b) if so, compare it against your SMTP logs to see why it is 
being sent out?

Sounds like either they are on your Mailman list under a different email 
address than the one you unsubscribed or the message they received came from 
an external site (virus generated message, another user forwarding it, etc.).

Cheers,

Ron

-- 
islandnet.com
http://www.islandnet.com
support at islandnet.com
ph: (250) 383-0096 fax: (250) 383-6698


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan 17 22:01:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 13:01:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] trouble getting subscriber list
In-Reply-To: <1552fdf6701eceb33e1451870825beda@centerfornewwords.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601171301330046a02fb1ef@msapiro>

Jaclyn Friedman wrote:

>I'm running a listserv through my webserver's cpanelx interface, and 
>I'm trying to get a list of all of my listserv members.  I'm using 
>"list_members" and "who" and they're coming back blank like the message 
>below. Security is set so all list members can see who's on the list.   
>I've used "who" on other (smaller) lists run on the same system and it 
>works.  The list in question has about 2500 members.  Could that be a 
>problem, and either way, can you help me figure out how to get the list 
>of my members?

Most likely, all the members of your list are hidden - probably because
"Conceal the member's address" is one of the new_member_options
selected on the list's General Options page. Hidden members do not
appear in the list from the email "who" or on the web roster
(http://www.example.com/mailman/roster/LIST_NAME/>.

Presumably, you can't use the command line

bin/list_members

to get the membership list. If you have the standard web admin
interface, you can script it to get a membership list or to "unhide"
all the members. See
<http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#throughtheweb> for
examples.

Also see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan 17 22:11:57 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 13:11:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] user is removed,
	but they still receive list emails
In-Reply-To: <200601171220.31491.rb@islandnet.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060117131157017131ced8c4@msapiro>

Ron Brogden wrote:

>On Tuesday 17 January 2006 12:04, Zack Beatty wrote:
>> I've removed sevaral list members, using the Mailman
>> Admin interface.  However, they're still gettting my
>> mailings, and are threatening to complain to the spam
>> cops?  I've double checked to confirm that these email
>> addresses are NOT in my membership list.
>
>Howdy.  Have you asked this user to forward you one of the messages they have 
>received with all headers intact so you can a) see if it even originated with 
>your server and b) if so, compare it against your SMTP logs to see why it is 
>being sent out?

In addition to Ron's suggestions, If you can personalize the list, you
can include the recipients address in the list footer for non-digest
subscribers. Also, the monthly password reminders (which you can
manually send any time if you have command line access - see
'cron/mailpasswds --help') show the address they are sent to (Assuming
of course that these users haven't opted out of reminders).

It is very likely that these users are receiving list posts via some
other 'forwarding' address that they don't remember subscribing to the
list. The Received: headers in the mesages can provide clues.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan 17 22:21:53 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 13:21:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help getting list info from mailman
In-Reply-To: <2432315.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060117132153075031cedb03@msapiro>

"JaclynF (sent by Nabble.com)" <lists at nabble.com> wrote:
>
>The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your
>original message.
>
>- Results:
>   Ignoring non-text/plain MIME parts
>
>- Done.
>

I replied to your other post which you sent directly to
mailman-users at python.org. That reply is at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-January/048635.html>.
But I didn't notice the "Ignoring non-text/plain MIME parts" above.

Your "who" command must be in the subject of the request or it must be
in a text/plain part. If the message you are sending to the
LIST-request address is HTML or rich text only, and the commands are
in the message body, it won't work. If the command is not in the
subject, it must be in a text/plain body part, preferably in a
text/plain only message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan 18 03:32:44 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 18:32:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installation & combining with apache
In-Reply-To: <9dbd3d650601171019x16b93564odcfd9f68fb76d470@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601171832440000a08be76c@msapiro>

Christer Edwards wrote:

>I have not been able to completely understand the instructions
>included in the docs concerning installing mailman to an apache
>virtual host machine (ie; I host multiple sites on a single machine).
>
>I have mailman installed following the instructions but I am stuck
>after that point in joining it with apache & a specific domain for
>access.


I'm not clear on what you want.

Do you want just one of your virtual hosts to access Mailman? If so,
just put the various Alias and ScriptAlias and maybe Directory, etc
things that the documentation refers to inside the <VirtualHost>
</VirtualHost> block for that host.

If you want multiple virtual hosts to access Mailman, put those things
in the 'main server configuration' part of your Apache config. In this
case, you will need an add_virtualhost() line in mm_cfg.py for each of
your hosts.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Neilrey.Espino at FundSERV.com  Thu Jan 19 00:06:26 2006
From: Neilrey.Espino at FundSERV.com (Neilrey Espino)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:06:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Public Mailing List
Message-ID: <CBDB236C3C437A43BF5D93D66E58929A028BB3BA@pegasus.fundserv.com>



Hi Guys,

I'm still new to Mailman,,, just wondering if anyone can tell me how do
I publicly advertise my lists.

On my main web page I got 11 public lists....but when I typed in
/bin/list_lists it showed 55 lists.

How Do I advertised the rest ?

Many thanks in advance.

__________________________
Neilrey Espino
416-350-2532
neilrey.espino at fundserv.com
FundSERV Inc.
The Exchange Tower
130 King Street West ,Suite 1700
P.O. Box 485 ,Toronto, Ontario ,M5X 1E5




From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jan 19 01:16:14 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 16:16:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Public Mailing List
In-Reply-To: <CBDB236C3C437A43BF5D93D66E58929A028BB3BA@pegasus.fundserv.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060118161614043726cd7ac3@msapiro>

Neilrey Espino wrote:
>
>On my main web page I got 11 public lists....but when I typed in
>/bin/list_lists it showed 55 lists.
>
>How Do I advertised the rest ?

It depends why the others aren't advertised. There are two posibilities.

The list's 'advertised' attribute (on Privacy options...->Subscription
rules) is No.

VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW is On and the host name part of the list's
web_page_url attribute is not the same as the host name part of the
URI you are using to access the overview page.

If it is the first reason, you could create set_adv.py in the bin/
directory containing----------------------
def set_adv(mlist):
    if not mlist.Locked():
        mlist.Lock()
    mlist.advertised = True
    mlist.Save()
    mlist.Unlock()
preceding is last line--------------------

and run it with

bin/withlist -a -r set_adv

and it will set every list advertised.

If it is the second reason, and you are not accessing different lists
from different virtual hosts, and the differences in web_page_url are
OK, set

VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off

in mm_cfg.py. If the differences in web_page_url are errors, you can
fix that with fix_url. Run

bin/fix_url.py

for instructions.

If you are actually accessing Mailman from different virtual hosts,
then it is intended that each host see only its own lists. If you want
each host to see all lists, you can set VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off as
above.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From aptgetd at gmail.com  Thu Jan 19 03:27:06 2006
From: aptgetd at gmail.com (noc ops)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 18:27:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delay=10
Message-ID: <43CEF8FA.8060503@gmail.com>

hi,

a little intro as to what's i'm facing.

i have created a list called dev at mailman.domain.com on my mailman
(v2.1.5-8) server. I can send newly created messages to it with no
problems. when i try and forward messages (which worked earlier) it
intermittently and other times i get delay=10 and the message doesn't
make it to the list.

i even added "text/html" to the pass_mime_types list with no avail. this
list also has "text/plain".

there's no message limitation or changes occurred that i know of which
might be causing the server to block or hold messages.

let me know if you need any specific log outputs.


any insight will be appreciated.


regards,
/virendra


From usacomp2k3 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 19 07:14:38 2006
From: usacomp2k3 at gmail.com (AJ Peck)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 01:14:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new setup
Message-ID: <002701c61cbf$a10ad210$5808e40a@atlas>

Hey all,

I'm in the midst of a project, but need to get the steps worked out
individually.

My server is a Ubuntu box, with LAMPP setup as the apache/mySQL software.

I installed mailman by doing the whole configuring myself as opposed to
apt-get due to having to integrate it into lampp.

Anyway, I have it set up, and it seems like it should be working. I get the
confirmation messages when I add some of my e-mail accounts. 

The problem lies, however, in the fact that when I send e-mails to account
that I've setup, they don't go through. Neither do they go through when I
send them via the web interface. I'm curious how the registration e-mails
come through and not any of the others. 

I'd love some help on this.

Some more info:

hosting over a cable connection using a no-ip.com dynamic DNS service.

using mailman 2.1.7

Apache/2.0.54 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.0.54 OpenSSL/0.9.8 PHP/5.0.5 DAV/2
mod_perl/2.0.1 Perl/v5.8.7

 

Thanks for the help

 

-AJ Peck

 

PS, i'm not a linux guru, so it's possible I messed up in the install
somewhere, but didn't realize it.



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jan 19 17:11:22 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 08:11:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new setup
In-Reply-To: <002701c61cbf$a10ad210$5808e40a@atlas>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601190811220500ecd452aa@msapiro>

AJ Peck wrote:
>
>Anyway, I have it set up, and it seems like it should be working. I get the
>confirmation messages when I add some of my e-mail accounts. 
>
>The problem lies, however, in the fact that when I send e-mails to account
>that I've setup, they don't go through. Neither do they go through when I
>send them via the web interface. I'm curious how the registration e-mails
>come through and not any of the others. 


You are getting outgoing messages from Mailman, but apparently,
incoming messages are either not reaching Mailman or are being held
within Mailman. Check Mailman's 'vette' and 'error' logs and the web
admindb interface. Also see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>

Also check your MTA logs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jan 19 17:15:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 08:15:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delay=10
In-Reply-To: <43CEF8FA.8060503@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601190815010828ecd453dd@msapiro>

noc ops wrote:
>
>i have created a list called dev at mailman.domain.com on my mailman
>(v2.1.5-8) server. I can send newly created messages to it with no
>problems. when i try and forward messages (which worked earlier) it
>intermittently and other times i get delay=10 and the message doesn't
>make it to the list.

Where does "delay=10" come from? In what context?

This seems more like a problem in delivering to Mailman than a problem
within Mailman.

You could look at Mailman's 'error' and 'vette' logs for anything
relevant.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From aptgetd at gmail.com  Thu Jan 19 17:52:00 2006
From: aptgetd at gmail.com (noc ops)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 08:52:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delay=10
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601190815010828ecd453dd@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200601190815010828ecd453dd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43CFC3B0.8090502@gmail.com>



Mark Sapiro wrote:
> noc ops wrote:
> 
>>i have created a list called dev at mailman.domain.com on my mailman
>>(v2.1.5-8) server. I can send newly created messages to it with no
>>problems. when i try and forward messages (which worked earlier) it
>>intermittently and other times i get delay=10 and the message doesn't
>>make it to the list.
> 
> 
> Where does "delay=10" come from? In what context?
-----------
/var/log/syslog

> 
> This seems more like a problem in delivering to Mailman than a problem
> within Mailman.
------------
what's perplexing is that it intermittently delivers messages to the
same alias. if i sent a test message to the same alias it go through at
all times?


> 
> You could look at Mailman's 'error' and 'vette' logs for anything
> relevant.
------------
/var/log/mailman/error is empty
/var/log/mailman/vetter shows nothing that i can point my finger at.


anything else that i can look at?




regards,
/virendra

> 


From ssrjazz at gmail.com  Thu Jan 19 18:50:23 2006
From: ssrjazz at gmail.com (Jeff Schoby)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 11:50:23 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need help with rss patch.
Message-ID: <d2e2567a0601190950p54499602t9b8739b9f14fce93@mail.gmail.com>

Anyone out there got the infamous rss.patch running properly?  Send me an
email offlist to ssrjazz at gmail.com please, I could use your assistance.

Thanks!

-Jeff


From aptgetd at gmail.com  Thu Jan 19 19:51:41 2006
From: aptgetd at gmail.com (noc ops)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:51:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delay=10
In-Reply-To: <43CFC3B0.8090502@gmail.com>
References: <PC1740200601190815010828ecd453dd@msapiro>
	<43CFC3B0.8090502@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <43CFDFBD.8080703@gmail.com>

another observation.

the messages that don't make it to the list "dev at mailman.domain.com" do
get archived?



regards,
/virendra


noc ops wrote:
> 
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
>>noc ops wrote:
>>
>>
>>>i have created a list called dev at mailman.domain.com on my mailman
>>>(v2.1.5-8) server. I can send newly created messages to it with no
>>>problems. when i try and forward messages (which worked earlier) it
>>>intermittently and other times i get delay=10 and the message doesn't
>>>make it to the list.
>>
>>
>>Where does "delay=10" come from? In what context?
> 
> -----------
> /var/log/syslog
> 
> 
>>This seems more like a problem in delivering to Mailman than a problem
>>within Mailman.
> 
> ------------
> what's perplexing is that it intermittently delivers messages to the
> same alias. if i sent a test message to the same alias it go through at
> all times?
> 
> 
> 
>>You could look at Mailman's 'error' and 'vette' logs for anything
>>relevant.
> 
> ------------
> /var/log/mailman/error is empty
> /var/log/mailman/vetter shows nothing that i can point my finger at.
> 
> 
> anything else that i can look at?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> regards,
> /virendra
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/aptgetd%40gmail.com
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 


From chris.a.adams at state.or.us  Thu Jan 19 21:08:21 2006
From: chris.a.adams at state.or.us (Christopher Adams)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:08:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] modify auto-discard message
Message-ID: <43CFF1B5.60309@state.or.us>

I would like to be able to auto discard messages from non-members and 
generate a more descriptive message to list owners or senders. Currently 
the subject is:

Auto-discard notification

and the message is:

The attached message has been automatically discarded.

I searched the archives and found some mention of a patch from 2003 that 
allows a modification and I am wondering if anyone has other ideas about 
how to do this. The message is somewhat misleading to novices. I would 
allow notifications to the list owners when a message is auto-discarded, 
but they tend to get confused as to what actually happened.

One other option would be to select 'Reject' and add a rejection notice, 
but I would like as little communication with non-members as possible, 
as many are spammers. However, the list owner should know when a message 
is discarded and why.

Any suggestions would be helpful


-- 


Christopher Adams



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan 20 01:47:30 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 16:47:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delay=10
In-Reply-To: <43CFDFBD.8080703@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601191647300468f19aed32@msapiro>

noc ops wrote:

>another observation.
>
>the messages that don't make it to the list "dev at mailman.domain.com" do
>get archived?
>
>
>
>regards,
>/virendra
>
>
>noc ops wrote:
>> 
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>>
>>>Where does "delay=10" come from? In what context?
>> 
>> -----------
>> /var/log/syslog


Mailman doesn't write to syslog. I don't know what this means.

If your messages are archived, but not delivered to the list members,
they may either be in the 'out' or 'retry' queues (qfiles/out/,
qfiles/retry/) or there should be some indication in Mailman's
'error', 'post', 'smtp' and/or 'smtp-failure' logs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From carbonnb at gmail.com  Fri Jan 20 01:50:05 2006
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 19:50:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Determine List Bandwidth
Message-ID: <e04a6c920601191650l1c6944c9v@mail.gmail.com>

Is there any facility within Mailman to determine the bandwidth used
by a specific list?

If not, is there a way to do it using Sendmail?

Thanks,
--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan 20 02:02:59 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:02:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] modify auto-discard message
In-Reply-To: <43CFF1B5.60309@state.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601191702590609c350ad7c@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:

>I would like to be able to auto discard messages from non-members and 
>generate a more descriptive message to list owners or senders.

<snip>

>I searched the archives and found some mention of a patch from 2003 that 
>allows a modification and I am wondering if anyone has other ideas about 
>how to do this.

Upgrade to Mailman 2.1.7 which allows you to configure this message per
list.

Also note, if you do upgrade, see
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1405790&group_id=103&atid=300103>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Jan 20 03:10:56 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 03:10:56 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Determine List Bandwidth
In-Reply-To: <e04a6c920601191650l1c6944c9v@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e04a6c920601191650l1c6944c9v@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06200708bff5f6900c23@[10.0.1.210]>

At 7:50 PM -0500 2006-01-19, Bryan Carbonnell wrote:

>  Is there any facility within Mailman to determine the bandwidth used
>  by a specific list?

	No.  This is closely related to the Mailman FAQ Wizard entries at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.051.htp> 
and 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.030.htp>.

>  If not, is there a way to do it using Sendmail?

	There's a certain amount that you can do with log processing 
tools like lire (see logreport.org), or the kinds of tools that I 
used to use and maintain about ten years ago (see 
<http://www.shub-internet.org/brad/sendmail/index.html>), but I am 
not personally aware of anything that would seem to fill the gap you 
seem to be looking for.  If you find something, please let us know.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From carbonnb at gmail.com  Fri Jan 20 03:28:34 2006
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:28:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Determine List Bandwidth
In-Reply-To: <p06200708bff5f6900c23@10.0.1.210>
References: <e04a6c920601191650l1c6944c9v@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06200708bff5f6900c23@10.0.1.210>
Message-ID: <e04a6c920601191828r626e20a1m@mail.gmail.com>

On 19/01/06, Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote:
> At 7:50 PM -0500 2006-01-19, Bryan Carbonnell wrote:
>
> >  Is there any facility within Mailman to determine the bandwidth used
> >  by a specific list?
>
>         No.  This is closely related to the Mailman FAQ Wizard entries at
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.051.htp>
> and
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.030.htp>.
>
> >  If not, is there a way to do it using Sendmail?
>
>         There's a certain amount that you can do with log processing
> tools like lire (see logreport.org), or the kinds of tools that I
> used to use and maintain about ten years ago (see
> <http://www.shub-internet.org/brad/sendmail/index.html>), but I am
> not personally aware of anything that would seem to fill the gap you
> seem to be looking for.  If you find something, please let us know.

Thanks Brad. It looks like I've got some reading and surfing to do.

If I find anything that fits the bill, I'll let everyone know.

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"


From aptgetd at gmail.com  Fri Jan 20 04:28:39 2006
From: aptgetd at gmail.com (noc ops)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 19:28:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delay=10
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601191647300468f19aed32@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200601191647300468f19aed32@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43D058E7.2060902@gmail.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> noc ops wrote:
> 
> 
>>another observation.
>>
>>the messages that don't make it to the list "dev at mailman.domain.com" do
>>get archived?
>>
>>
>>
>>regards,
>>/virendra
>>
>>
>>noc ops wrote:
>>
>>>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>>
>>>>Where does "delay=10" come from? In what context?
>>>
>>>-----------
>>>/var/log/syslog
> 
> 
> 
> Mailman doesn't write to syslog. I don't know what this means.
------------
hmm..apparently it is logging events related to the postfix/smtpd which
are configured for mailman.

> 
> If your messages are archived, but not delivered to the list members,
> they may either be in the 'out' or 'retry' queues (qfiles/out/,
> qfiles/retry/) or there should be some indication in Mailman's
> 'error', 'post', 'smtp' and/or 'smtp-failure' logs.
------------
i will look into qfiles logs but from what i can tell,
error/smtp/smtp-failure shows zero file size.



regards,
/virendra
> 


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan 20 04:44:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 19:44:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delay=10
In-Reply-To: <43D058E7.2060902@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006011919441004535219f0cf@msapiro>

noc ops wrote:

>hmm..apparently it is logging events related to the postfix/smtpd which
>are configured for mailman.


Then it would be a postfix issue. It might have to do with messages
being delayed after being accepted from Mailman for delivery.


>i will look into qfiles logs but from what i can tell,
>error/smtp/smtp-failure shows zero file size.


Then these are not the correct log files. The 'smtp' log at least is
written every time mailman sends anything.

Some packagers (Red Hat, others?) create log files in say
/var/mailman/logs, but change the log directory so that the actual
logs that are written are in /var/log/mailman/.

Check mm_cfg.py for assignment to LOG_DIR.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From aptgetd at gmail.com  Fri Jan 20 04:54:09 2006
From: aptgetd at gmail.com (noc ops)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 19:54:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delay=10
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006011919441004535219f0cf@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006011919441004535219f0cf@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43D05EE1.7010605@gmail.com>


Mark Sapiro wrote:
> noc ops wrote:
> 
> 
>>hmm..apparently it is logging events related to the postfix/smtpd which
>>are configured for mailman.
> 
> 
> 
> Then it would be a postfix issue. It might have to do with messages
> being delayed after being accepted from Mailman for delivery.
--------------
i'll dig deeper into this.

> 
> 
> 
>>i will look into qfiles logs but from what i can tell,
>>error/smtp/smtp-failure shows zero file size.
> 
> 
> 
> Then these are not the correct log files. The 'smtp' log at least is
> written every time mailman sends anything.
> 
> Some packagers (Red Hat, others?) create log files in say
> /var/mailman/logs, but change the log directory so that the actual
> logs that are written are in /var/log/mailman/.
-------------
i'm running debian sarge 3.1. /var/mailman/logs is correct.



> 
> Check mm_cfg.py for assignment to LOG_DIR.
------
ok.



regards,
/virendra

> 


From kelecsenyi at gmail.com  Fri Jan 20 11:39:04 2006
From: kelecsenyi at gmail.com (Laszlo Kelecsenyi)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:39:04 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stats
Message-ID: <552f2eed0601200239m6481510fn4579c617d9f0cf23@mail.gmail.com>

Hello guys,

Is there anyone who could help me to create statistics for my mailing
list? I am a list owner (so not the system admin) at my university
where we use mailman. And I would like to make a cool statistics page
just like this that I made about my favourite IRC channel:
http://www.freeweb.hu/papdavid/lastyear/index.html

It would be good if the stats script didnt have to be on the same
server as the list itself, I mean I have a shell account elsewhere and
it'd be great if I could run a program there to recieve mails from the
list and generate stats that can be found on that server.

If you think you can help please reply soon, I'd really appreciate
your help. Expect that I'm a n00b at linux. :)

David


From Neilrey.Espino at FundSERV.com  Fri Jan 20 15:41:16 2006
From: Neilrey.Espino at FundSERV.com (Neilrey Espino)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 09:41:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving Mailman to New Server
Message-ID: <CBDB236C3C437A43BF5D93D66E58929A028BB3C6@pegasus.fundserv.com>

Hi Guys,

Currently , our mailman is installed on our MTA and DNS server. I'm now
planning to move it to a new RHEL4 dedicated server.


I already have copied the entire /var/lib/mailman directory to the new
server.

/bin/list_lists  and list_members now has shown me my lists. Apart from
that these are the files that I copied over.

/etc/mailman/adm.pw
/etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py
/etc/mailman/sitelist.cfg

/etc/aliases

/etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf


What else do you think, I need to ensure that my migration would run
smoothly ??

Thanks in advance!

________________________________
Neilrey Espino
FundSERV Inc.
The Exchange Tower
130 King Street West ,Suite 1700
P.O. Box 485 ,Toronto, Ontario ,M5X 1E5
 


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan 20 16:11:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 07:11:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving Mailman to New Server
In-Reply-To: <CBDB236C3C437A43BF5D93D66E58929A028BB3C6@pegasus.fundserv.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006012007110806713a01e647@msapiro>

Neilrey Espino wrote:
>
>Currently , our mailman is installed on our MTA and DNS server. I'm now
>planning to move it to a new RHEL4 dedicated server.
>
<snip>
>
>What else do you think, I need to ensure that my migration would run
>smoothly ??

Will the new server have the same hostname(s) (server.example.com) as
the old?
Will it have an MTA and a web server for Mailman?

If the answers are yes, then you're probably OK.

If the name is different, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp>.

If the new server doesn't have an MTA, you will have issues with
sending and receiving mail. If it doesn't have a web server, you will
have issues with the web interface.

In any case,
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.004.htp>
may be of interest.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Neilrey.Espino at FundSERV.com  Fri Jan 20 16:26:25 2006
From: Neilrey.Espino at FundSERV.com (Neilrey Espino)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 10:26:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving Mailman to New Server
Message-ID: <CBDB236C3C437A43BF5D93D66E58929A028BB3C7@pegasus.fundserv.com>


Thanks Mark,,,

And yes to your questions 

I will call it the same name,  the IP address will be changed but I will
just change the DNS entry and point it to my new IP...


I will install sendmail on it(but any suggestions ?)  and apache will be
installed as well.... I'll read on the links u sent...

I will do a test tonight,,,, 6PM EST......   

Many thanks again..


________________________________
Neilrey 



-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 10:11 AM
To: Neilrey Espino; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Moving Mailman to New Server


Neilrey Espino wrote:
>
>Currently , our mailman is installed on our MTA and DNS server. I'm now

>planning to move it to a new RHEL4 dedicated server.
>
<snip>
>
>What else do you think, I need to ensure that my migration would run 
>smoothly ??

Will the new server have the same hostname(s) (server.example.com) as
the old? Will it have an MTA and a web server for Mailman?


If the answers are yes, then you're probably OK.

If the name is different, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp>.

If the new server doesn't have an MTA, you will have issues with sending
and receiving mail. If it doesn't have a web server, you will have
issues with the web interface.

In any case,
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.004.htp>
may be of interest.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sathish082000 at india.com  Fri Jan 20 17:00:12 2006
From: sathish082000 at india.com (sathishkumar swaminathan)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 00:00:12 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] i need password
Message-ID: <20060120160012.3E5C17B52A@ws5-10.us4.outblaze.com>

sir mam:
         i need password this yahoo id;
malus082000 at yahoo.com i need this email address password
help me

-- 
India.com free e-mail - www.india.com. 
Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for mail storage, POP3, e-mail forwarding, and ads-free mailboxes!


From chris.a.adams at state.or.us  Fri Jan 20 18:11:25 2006
From: chris.a.adams at state.or.us (Christopher Adams)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 09:11:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with qrunner
Message-ID: <43D119BD.8060800@state.or.us>

I noticed that messages weren't being delivered. So, I checked the 
mailman error logs and noticed something about a master qrunner lock. I 
found something in the /locks directory names master qrunner and deleted 
it. Then I restarted mailman and got this:

./mailmanctl restart
Restarting Mailman's master qrunner
PID unreadable in: /lists/data/master-qrunner.pid
[Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/lists/data/master-qrunner.pid'
Is qrunner even running?

Any ideas about how to get it restarted?
-- 


Christopher Adams



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan 20 18:24:02 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 09:24:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with qrunner
In-Reply-To: <43D119BD.8060800@state.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601200924020656a1ef2552@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:

>I noticed that messages weren't being delivered. So, I checked the 
>mailman error logs and noticed something about a master qrunner lock. I 
>found something in the /locks directory names master qrunner and deleted 
>it. Then I restarted mailman and got this:
>
>./mailmanctl restart
>Restarting Mailman's master qrunner
>PID unreadable in: /lists/data/master-qrunner.pid
>[Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/lists/data/master-qrunner.pid'
>Is qrunner even running?
>
>Any ideas about how to get it restarted?

Using ps, find the pid of the master qrunner process (the one with a
command line like "/usr/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q
start") and send it a SIGTERM. After it and all the qrunners stop,
make sure there are no master-qrunner* files left in data/ and locks/,
and do

bin/mailmanctl start

In the future, don't delete these files. The locks/ files are to
prevent starting a second mailmanctl when one is already running and
are normally always present as is data/master-qrunner.pid when
mailmanctl is running.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From aptgetd at gmail.com  Fri Jan 20 19:57:17 2006
From: aptgetd at gmail.com (noc ops)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 10:57:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delay=10
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601191647300468f19aed32@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200601191647300468f19aed32@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43D1328D.3000701@gmail.com>



Mark Sapiro wrote:
> noc ops wrote:
> 
> 
>>another observation.
>>
>>the messages that don't make it to the list "dev at mailman.domain.com" do
>>get archived?
>>
>>
>>
>>regards,
>>/virendra
>>
>>
>>noc ops wrote:
>>
>>>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>>
>>>>Where does "delay=10" come from? In what context?
>>>
>>>-----------
>>>/var/log/syslog
> 
> 
> 
> Mailman doesn't write to syslog. I don't know what this means.
> 
> If your messages are archived, but not delivered to the list members,
> they may either be in the 'out' or 'retry' queues (qfiles/out/,
> qfiles/retry/) or there should be some indication in Mailman's
> 'error', 'post', 'smtp' and/or 'smtp-failure' logs.
--------------------
couldn't locate qfiles/retry or qfiles/out? where this directory located?

also, error is empty, post shows that my messages were sent successfully
and smtp-failure is empty.

not sure what else to look for because it appears that i can send first
three messages to the list and anything after that gets blackholed?



regards,
/virendra


> 


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan 20 20:34:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:34:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delay=10
In-Reply-To: <43D1328D.3000701@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601201134280109200d1469@msapiro>

noc ops wrote:

>couldn't locate qfiles/retry or qfiles/out? where this directory located?


Based on a prior post in this thread, I'm guessing
/var/mailman/qfiles/retry and /var/mailman/qfiles/out, however this is
moot. See below.


>also, error is empty, post shows that my messages were sent successfully
>and smtp-failure is empty.
>
>not sure what else to look for because it appears that i can send first
>three messages to the list and anything after that gets blackholed?


If the post log shows the post was sent, it's out of Mailman's hands.
It has been passed to the outgoing MTA and whatever happens after that
is up to the MTA and beyond.

Based on 'everything after three messages is blackholed', I'd say the
outgoing MTA/ISP has a limit on the number of
messages/recipients/whatever that can be sent within some time period.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From itp1 at nysernet.org  Fri Jan 20 21:30:08 2006
From: itp1 at nysernet.org (IT Purchases)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 15:30:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can I showed held messages from a particular list
 from the command line?
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20060120153001.04699520@nysernet.org>


Hi,

Our MM web interface is currently offline.  Is there a way to view held
messages from the command line for particular list?

A.



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan 20 22:08:12 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 13:08:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can I showed held messages from a particular
	listfrom the command line?
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20060120153001.04699520@nysernet.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006012013081203907aa6e9d2@msapiro>

IT Purchases wrote:
>
>Our MM web interface is currently offline.  Is there a way to view held
>messages from the command line for particular list?


The messages themselves are in files named

data/heldmsg-LIST_NAME-nnnn.pck

which can be 'viewed' with bin/dumpdb.

A summary of the held messages can be seen by

bin/dumpdb lists/LIST_NAME/requests.pck

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ldb at freestandards.org  Sat Jan 21 01:26:21 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 19:26:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] additional accounts
Message-ID: <43D17FAD.7060607@freestandards.org>

If create a mailing list called test-list, then do I have to create aliases
like this

	mailman:              "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
	mailman-admin:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
	mailman-bounces:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
	mailman-confirm:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
	mailman-join:         "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
	mailman-leave:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
	mailman-owner:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
	mailman-request:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
	mailman-subscribe:    "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
	mailman-unsubscribe:  "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"



for test-list ...

	test-list:              "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test-list"
	test-list-admin:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin test-list"
	test-list-bounces:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces test-list"
	test-list-confirm:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm test-list"
	test-list-join:         "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join test-list"
	test-list-leave:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave test-list"
	test-list-owner:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner test-list"
	test-list-request:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request test-list"
	test-list-subscribe:    "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe test-list"
	test-list-unsubscribe:  "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe test-list"


Thanks,

LDB





From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Sat Jan 21 02:37:09 2006
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 20:37:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] additional accounts
In-Reply-To: <43D17FAD.7060607@freestandards.org>
References: <43D17FAD.7060607@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <43D19045.8030404@wingfoot.org>

Lawrence Bowie said the following on 1/20/2006 7:26 PM:
> If create a mailing list called test-list, then do I have to create aliases
> like this

Hey Lawrence!

If you take a look in $PREFIX/mailman/data/aliases, you'll see that
Mailman's nice enough to do it for you :-)

Just make sure you include $PREFIX/mailman/data/aliases in your main
/etc/aliases file. (Refer to your MTA's documenation for how to do this.)

However, if you're using Postfix, you have two options that I know of:

At the end of /etc/aliases:
:include: $PREFIX/mailman/data/aliases

...or go here: http://www.gurulabs.com/goodies/downloads.php and grab a
copy of postfix-to-mailman-2.1.py and read the instructions within. :)

Best!
--Glenn

-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
          ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jan 21 05:13:03 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 20:13:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] additional accounts
In-Reply-To: <43D17FAD.7060607@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC174020060120201303023443092bcd@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:

>If create a mailing list called test-list, then do I have to create aliases
>like this
>
>	mailman:              "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
>	mailman-admin:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
<snip>
>
>for test-list ...
>
>	test-list:              "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test-list"
>	test-list-admin:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin test-list"
<snip>


Unless your MTA is Postfix in which case list creation handles this
'automagically' or Exim or another MTA which can be set up to
interface with Mailman without aliases, then yes, you do.

Also see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.049.htp>
for links to information about using the Postfix method with Sendmail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jan 21 05:16:13 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 20:16:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] additional accounts
In-Reply-To: <43D19045.8030404@wingfoot.org>
Message-ID: <PC174020060120201613003143092b0c@msapiro>

Glenn Sieb wrote:

>Lawrence Bowie said the following on 1/20/2006 7:26 PM:
>> If create a mailing list called test-list, then do I have to create aliases
>> like this
>
>Hey Lawrence!
>
>If you take a look in $PREFIX/mailman/data/aliases, you'll see that
>Mailman's nice enough to do it for you :-)


Only if MTA='Postfix'


>Just make sure you include $PREFIX/mailman/data/aliases in your main
>/etc/aliases file. (Refer to your MTA's documenation for how to do this.)
>
>However, if you're using Postfix, you have two options that I know of:
>
>At the end of /etc/aliases:
>:include: $PREFIX/mailman/data/aliases
>
>...or go here: http://www.gurulabs.com/goodies/downloads.php and grab a
>copy of postfix-to-mailman-2.1.py and read the instructions within. :)


Or read the Postfix integration section of the installation manual at
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From myozaw at ait.ac.th  Sat Jan 21 08:42:44 2006
From: myozaw at ait.ac.th (Myo Zaw Nyunt)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 14:42:44 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Group Mismatch error
Message-ID: <MDEEIKPHIEJFAJBLIEMCIEPICBAA.myozaw@ait.ac.th>

HI All,

I got the following error after I post my first mail to the list. I am using
Sendmail. I don't know what to do.

Regards,
Myo Gyi

Servername Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the
mail wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman", but the system's mail
server executed the mail script as group "mailnull".  Try tweaking the mail
server to run the script as group "mailman", or re-run configure,  providing
the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mailnull'.

server1 sm-mta[624]: k0LDB3ZM000623: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
post
test"\r, ctladdr=<test at server.domain.com> (26/0), delay=00:00:00,
xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=30760, dsn=5.3.0, stat=unknown mailer
error 2

server1 sm-mta[624]: k0LDB3ZM000623: k0LDB3ZM000624: DSN: unknown mailer
error 2


From Neilrey.Espino at FundSERV.com  Sat Jan 21 16:35:57 2006
From: Neilrey.Espino at FundSERV.com (Neilrey Espino)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 10:35:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List not receiving emails
Message-ID: <CBDB236C3C437A43BF5D93D66E58929A028BB3D5@pegasus.fundserv.com>


Hi guys,

I have created a list called "group-mailman"....  I sent some invites
and people responded and now have 10 members. But when they try to send
a message they got the following error messages :

"The e-mail account does not exist at the organization this message was
sent to.  Check the e-mail address, or contact the recipient directly to
find out the correct address."

I verified with netstat -na,,,,  port 25 is indeed open,,,,

What else can I possibly look into ?

Many thanks.

neilrey


From ldb at freestandards.org  Sat Jan 21 16:35:08 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 10:35:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] additional accounts
In-Reply-To: <43D19045.8030404@wingfoot.org>
References: <43D17FAD.7060607@freestandards.org>
	<43D19045.8030404@wingfoot.org>
Message-ID: <43D254AC.1070707@freestandards.org>

Glenn Sieb wrote:
> Lawrence Bowie said the following on 1/20/2006 7:26 PM:
>> If create a mailing list called test-list, then do I have to create aliases
>> like this
> 
> Hey Lawrence!
> 
> If you take a look in $PREFIX/mailman/data/aliases, you'll see that
> Mailman's nice enough to do it for you :-)
> 
> Just make sure you include $PREFIX/mailman/data/aliases in your main
> /etc/aliases file. (Refer to your MTA's documenation for how to do this.)
> 
> However, if you're using Postfix, you have two options that I know of:
> 
> At the end of /etc/aliases:
> :include: $PREFIX/mailman/data/aliases
> 
> ...or go here: http://www.gurulabs.com/goodies/downloads.php and grab a
> copy of postfix-to-mailman-2.1.py and read the instructions within. :)
> 
> Best!
> --Glenn
> 

Thank you for the help Glenn ..

LDB


From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Sat Jan 21 18:21:51 2006
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:21:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List not receiving emails
In-Reply-To: <CBDB236C3C437A43BF5D93D66E58929A028BB3D5@pegasus.fundserv.com>
Message-ID: <BAYC1-PASMTP08FDC37C1E286FC787F404AE1E0@CEZ.ICE>

On 21 Jan 2006 at 10:35, Neilrey Espino wrote:

> I have created a list called "group-mailman"....  I sent some invites
> and people responded and now have 10 members. But when they try to send
> a message they got the following error messages :
> 
> "The e-mail account does not exist at the organization this message was
> sent to.  Check the e-mail address, or contact the recipient directly to
> find out the correct address."
> 
> I verified with netstat -na,,,,  port 25 is indeed open,,,,
> 
> What else can I possibly look into ?

Did you add the aliases to your alias file?

Also look in the FAQ at Article 1.7 http://www.python.org/cgi-
bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.007.htp

-- 
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
I've learned.... 
That the easiest way for me to grow as a person is to surround myself 
with people smarter than I am.




From carbonnb at gmail.com  Sat Jan 21 21:55:59 2006
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 15:55:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Determine List Bandwidth
In-Reply-To: <e04a6c920601191650l1c6944c9v@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e04a6c920601191650l1c6944c9v@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e04a6c920601211255m46d9d645u@mail.gmail.com>

On 19/01/06, Bryan Carbonnell <carbonnb at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is there any facility within Mailman to determine the bandwidth used
> by a specific list?

Since there is no inbuilt way to do this with Mailman, I wrote a
Python script to parse the POST log and take the size of the posts to
a specific list and then multiply that by the number of active
subscribers at the time this script was run.

This gets the "stats" from the day before the script is run.

I also said that I would let everyone know if I found a way to do it,
here is the script.

Keep in mind that I don't know Python (I spent an awful lot of time
googling and read Python Docs :) That  and I haven't actually tried
this on my live server, just a backup of the post log file.

Let me know if you see anything that can be improved.

#!/usr/local/bin/python

import os
import re
import datetime
import commands

# Full path to the post log file
FILE = '/full/path/to/post'
# The list of interest
LISTNAME = 'listname'

n = 0
bw = 0
# Get yesterdays date
yesterday = datetime.datetime.today() - datetime.timedelta(days=1)

# check for existence of file
if os.path.exists(FILE):
  # open file if it exists
  input = open(FILE, 'r')
  #Loop through file line by line
  for line in input:
    # Check to see if we are on a record from yesterday
    restr = yesterday.strftime("%b %d ") + "\d\d:\d\d:\d\d" \
        + yesterday.strftime(" %Y")
    if re.findall(r'%s' % restr, line):
        # Check to see if the listname is in the line
        # Check to see if the listname is in the line
        if re.findall(r'%s' % LISTNAME, line):
            ret = re.findall(r'size=\d*', line)
            ret2 = re.findall(r'\d*', ret[0])
            bw = bw + long(ret2[5])
            n = n + 1

  print n, 'posts to %s yesterday' % LISTNAME
  print bw, ' bytes received'

  # Now check and see how many members are subscribed to the listi
  memb = 0
  op = commands.getoutput('/var/mailman/bin/list_members %s' % LISTNAME)
  #print op
  for line in op.splitlines():
      memb = memb + 1
  print memb, " members subscribed"

  # Now get rid of the mebers that are set to nomail
  op = commands.getoutput('/var/mailman/bin/list_members --nomail %s'
% LISTNAME)
  for line in op.splitlines():
      memb = memb - 1

  print memb, " members receiving list mail"

  # Now calculate the bandwidth
  tbw = bw * memb
  print "Approximately ", tbw, " bytes sent"

else:
  print "log file not found"


--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"


From matt at crazylogic.net  Sun Jan 22 03:18:50 2006
From: matt at crazylogic.net (Matt Gostick)
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 21:18:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] notification system
Message-ID: <33413.66.207.217.142.1137896330.squirrel@www.gostick.ca>

I have installed Mailman in hopes of using it as a type of 'notification' system.  For example, a
user subscribes to the list, and after subscribing I can send him/her an email notifiying them an
event that happens on my website.  The event would be unique for this user and should only be sent
to him/her.  Is mailman the appropriate program for me?  If not, can anyone suggest another
standard program that would do the job?

Thanks,
Matt



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Jan 22 03:47:14 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 03:47:14 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] notification system
In-Reply-To: <33413.66.207.217.142.1137896330.squirrel@www.gostick.ca>
References: <33413.66.207.217.142.1137896330.squirrel@www.gostick.ca>
Message-ID: <p06200718bff8a224fcf0@[10.0.1.210]>

At 9:18 PM -0500 2006-01-21, Matt Gostick wrote:

>  I have installed Mailman in hopes of using it as a type of 'notification'
>  system.  For example, a user subscribes to the list, and after subscribing
>  I can send him/her an email notifiying them an event that happens on my
>  website.

	Send a notice to that list, and all recipients will receive a 
copy.  But you don't have a list per recipient.  If you did, then why 
would you bother with a mailing list system -- why not just send a 
message directly to each of those users?

>            The event would be unique for this user and should only be sent
>  to him/her.

	That's not going to work.

>               Is mailman the appropriate program for me?  If not, can
>  anyone suggest another standard program that would do the job?

	If every user has a unique event that only they care about, you 
will probably need to build your own system -- just have a database 
of users and what events they're interested in, and then send out 
e-mail messages every time one of those events happen.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Sun Jan 22 06:22:23 2006
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 00:22:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] additional accounts
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060120201613003143092b0c@msapiro>
References: <PC174020060120201613003143092b0c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43D3168F.60701@wingfoot.org>

Mark Sapiro said the following on 1/20/2006 11:16 PM:
> Only if MTA='Postfix'

You mean... there are *other* MTAs?? *grin, duck & run*

(Seriously, though--thanks for the catch.. :) I guess I just ASS-U-ME
everyone loves Postfix as much as I do ;-) )

ObReflection: It's hard to believe I've been running this software for
going on 5 years now. And, as easy as it was to install, it's been
completely painless to upgrade. The lovely thing about that is: It
encourages people to run the latest release, thus benefiting from the
security patches and new features. Kudos to the team! :)

(And, yes, the first sentence is completely tongue-in-cheek. I know
there are other MTAs, and that people use them! :P~ )

Best,
--Glenn

-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
          ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759


From kd5de at nwla.com  Sun Jan 22 12:10:28 2006
From: kd5de at nwla.com (Mel Sojka)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 05:10:28 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Host problem with 2.1.7
Message-ID: <43D36824.2030507@nwla.com>

I am moving a couple list from a server that was running version 2.0.8.  
I have got the list in place and the archives in place ran bin/withlist 
-l -r fix_url listname -u  This may be where I messed up since I used 
the virtual hostname (should I have used the default host name?) But 
whatever when I attempted to start mailman I get 
add_vituralhost(virtual1.tld, mail.vurtual1.tld)
NameError: name 'virtual1.tld' is not defined. Where did I miss the boat.
I do have my mm_cfg.py configured

-- 
System Janitor/Network Plumber http://www.nwla.com
Linux User #25446    Linux 2.6.14



From kd5de at nwla.com  Sun Jan 22 13:00:40 2006
From: kd5de at nwla.com (Mel Sojka)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 06:00:40 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Host problem with 2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <43D36824.2030507@nwla.com>
References: <43D36824.2030507@nwla.com>
Message-ID: <43D373E8.6030002@nwla.com>

Well I found the problem missed a silly tic in the add_virtualhost in 
the host name, now How can I fix the archives so they are visible?

-- 
System Janitor/Network Plumber http://www.nwla.com
Linux User #25446    Linux 2.6.14



From bastian at bastian-friedrich.de  Sun Jan 22 15:18:49 2006
From: bastian at bastian-friedrich.de (Bastian Friedrich)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 15:18:49 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] broken mbox files: No blank lines before "From"
Message-ID: <200601221518.49396.bastian@bastian-friedrich.de>

Hi,

I've been browsing the archives, bug lists and google for a while but 
was unable to find a solution for my problem, so I'm asking here.

The mbox archive of one of my lists (~ 15.000 mails in 2 years) is a 
little broken:  In approx. 5% (guessed) of the cases, two mails are not 
correctly separated by a blank line, i.e. the "From " header of the 
latter email is directly under the last (non-empty) line of the 
preceding letter. This results in some problems:

1) I am in the process of converting the mbox file to a different format 
- this will not work with broken mbox files like this.
2) List archives are not correctly rebuilt by "~mailman/bin/arch"

Do you know how this problem occurs? Should I report this to mailman's 
bug tracker?

Do you have any idea how to fix the problem? I'd be happy to hack a 
newline in all necessary places - but the box is a little big...

Do you have any knowledge of some "fix-my-mbox-program" that does the 
job? Can anyone help me with a perl one-liner or sth?

Thx,
   Bastian

-- 
 Bastian Friedrich                  bastian at bastian-friedrich.de
 Adress & Fon available on my HP   http://www.bastian-friedrich.de/
\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\
\ A chicken is an egg's way of producing more eggs.



From matt at crazylogic.net  Sun Jan 22 17:34:39 2006
From: matt at crazylogic.net (Matt Gostick)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 11:34:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] notification system
In-Reply-To: <p06200718bff8a224fcf0@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <33413.66.207.217.142.1137896330.squirrel@www.gostick.ca>
	<p06200718bff8a224fcf0@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <33345.66.207.217.142.1137947679.squirrel@www.gostick.ca>

> At 9:18 PM -0500 2006-01-21, Matt Gostick wrote:
>
>>  I have installed Mailman in hopes of using it as a type of 'notification'
>>  system.  For example, a user subscribes to the list, and after subscribing
>>  I can send him/her an email notifiying them an event that happens on my
>>  website.
>
> 	Send a notice to that list, and all recipients will receive a
> copy.  But you don't have a list per recipient.  If you did, then why
> would you bother with a mailing list system -- why not just send a
> message directly to each of those users?\
>
>>            The event would be unique for this user and should only be sent
>>  to him/her.
>
> 	That's not going to work.
>
>>               Is mailman the appropriate program for me?  If not, can
>>  anyone suggest another standard program that would do the job?
>
> 	If every user has a unique event that only they care about, you
> will probably need to build your own system -- just have a database
> of users and what events they're interested in, and then send out
> e-mail messages every time one of those events happen.
>

Yeah, that is what I do now, but I am at the point where I am sending so many emails per day that
my penetration rate is decreasing b/c of Junk/Spam folders.  I was hoping that using a standard
program where the unsubscribe/subscribe system was known and trusted by isp's that I would get
better penetration.

Thanks,
Matt.




From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jan 22 18:31:06 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 09:31:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Group Mismatch error
In-Reply-To: <MDEEIKPHIEJFAJBLIEMCIEPICBAA.myozaw@ait.ac.th>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601220931060656a583cbd6@msapiro>

Myo Zaw Nyunt wrote:
>
>I got the following error after I post my first mail to the list. I am using
>Sendmail. I don't know what to do.
>
>Regards,
>Myo Gyi
>
>Servername Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the
>mail wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman", but the system's mail
>server executed the mail script as group "mailnull".  Try tweaking the mail
>server to run the script as group "mailman", or re-run configure,  providing
>the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mailnull'.

Do what it says. If you installed from source, rerun configure, adding
or changing the option --with-mail-gid=mailnull, and then run 'make
install'

If you installed from a package, there may be some package dependent
way of changing the group the wrapper expects.

Or, if you can, you can tell sendmail to run as gropp 'mailman' when
executing the wrapper.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jan 22 19:08:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 10:08:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] notification system
In-Reply-To: <33345.66.207.217.142.1137947679.squirrel@www.gostick.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601221008100500762c78fe@msapiro>

Matt Gostick wrote:

>I was hoping that using a standard
>program where the unsubscribe/subscribe system was known and trusted by isp's that I would get
>better penetration.

I don't think that's the way ISP's work in general. I think they
consider the source IP of the mail, not the software that apparently
delivered it. In any case, I doubt that any ISP would whitelist mail
simply because it appeared to be sent from Mailman. Mailman can be a
abused too.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jan 22 19:28:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 10:28:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Host problem with 2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <43D373E8.6030002@nwla.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006012210282806875d99628b@msapiro>

Mel Sojka wrote:

>now How can I fix the archives so they are visible?


I'm not sure what the issue is with your archives. Can you give more
details of the problem?

You may have to run bin/arch --wipe to rebuild the archives in order to
update embedded URLs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From carbonnb at gmail.com  Sun Jan 22 19:27:58 2006
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 13:27:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Determine List Bandwidth
In-Reply-To: <e04a6c920601211255m46d9d645u@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e04a6c920601191650l1c6944c9v@mail.gmail.com>
	<e04a6c920601211255m46d9d645u@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e04a6c920601221027t44eb936cn@mail.gmail.com>

On 21/01/06, Bryan Carbonnell <carbonnb at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 19/01/06, Bryan Carbonnell <carbonnb at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Is there any facility within Mailman to determine the bandwidth used
> > by a specific list?
>
> Since there is no inbuilt way to do this with Mailman, I wrote a
> Python script to parse the POST log and take the size of the posts to
> a specific list and then multiply that by the number of active
> subscribers at the time this script was run.
>
> This gets the "stats" from the day before the script is run.
>
> I also said that I would let everyone know if I found a way to do it,
> here is the script.
>
> Keep in mind that I don't know Python (I spent an awful lot of time
> googling and read Python Docs :)

This is an updated version, which now includes that facility to e-mail
the results.

I have also tried it on my server and it works fine for me. I think
that some of the commands or modules require Python 2.3 or higher.

I have set it up as a cron job, so tomorrow will be the really big
test. If I get an e-mail with the stats, then I know my first Python
program really does work :-)

Again, let me know if you see any way this can be improved.

Also, is there someplace on Sourceforge that I can post this, so that
everyone can "enjoy" it too?

#!/usr/local/bin/python

import os
import re
import datetime
import commands
import smtplib
from email.MIMEText import MIMEText

# Full path to the post log file
FILE = '/var/log/mailman/post'
# The list of interest
LISTNAME = 'LISTNAME'
# E-Mail Address of sender of e-mail
SENDER = "MAILMAN at YOURSERVER.COM"
RECPTS = "SOMEONE at YOURISP.COM"
# Prefix of the Mailman Installation
PREFIX = '/var/mailman'

# No changes should be required below here
# Setup some default values
n = 0
bw = 0
# Get yesterdays date
yesterday = datetime.datetime.today() - datetime.timedelta(days=1)

# check for existence of file
if os.path.exists(FILE):
  # open file if it exists
  input = open(FILE, 'r')
  #Loop through file line by line
  for line in input:
    # Check to see if we are on a record from yesterday
    restr = yesterday.strftime("%b %d ") + "\d\d:\d\d:\d\d" \
        + yesterday.strftime(" %Y")
    if re.findall(r'%s' % restr, line):
        # Check to see if the listname is in the line
        if re.findall(r'%s' % LISTNAME, line):
            ret = re.findall(r'size=\d*', line)
            ret2 = re.findall(r'\d*', ret[0])
            bw = bw + long(ret2[5])
            n = n + 1

  # Now check and see how many members are subscribed to the listi
  membs = 0
  op = commands.getoutput('%s/bin/list_members %s' % (PREFIX, LISTNAME))
  for line in op.splitlines():
      membs = membs + 1

  # Now count mebers that are set to nomail
  membn = 0
  op = commands.getoutput('%s/bin/list_members --nomail %s' % (PREFIX,LISTNAME))
  for line in op.splitlines():
      membn = membn + 1

  # Now calculate members that are receiving mail
  membt = membs - membn

  # Now calculate the bandwidth
  tbw = bw * membt

  # Now lets send an e-mail
  # Build the body text
  msg = '%s posts to %s on %s\n' %(n, LISTNAME, yesterday.strftime('%b %d, %Y'))
  msg = msg + '%s bytes received\n' % bw
  msg = msg + '%s members subscribed\n' % membs
  msg = msg + '%s members receiving list mail\n' % membt
  msg = msg + "Approximately %s bytes sent\n" % tbw

  msgMIME = MIMEText(msg)
  msgMIME['Subject'] = 'Bandwidth of %s - %s' % (LISTNAME,
yesterday.strftime('%b %d, %Y'))
  msgMIME['From'] = SENDER
  msgMIME['To'] = RECPTS

  # Send the message via our own SMTP server, but don't include the
  # envelope header.
  s = smtplib.SMTP()
  s.connect()
  s.sendmail(SENDER, RECPTS, msgMIME.as_string())
  s.close()

else:
  print "log file not found"




--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jan 22 19:55:22 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 10:55:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] broken mbox files: No blank lines before "From"
In-Reply-To: <200601221518.49396.bastian@bastian-friedrich.de>
Message-ID: <PC174020060122105522075054158ca4@msapiro>

Bastian Friedrich wrote:
>
>The mbox archive of one of my lists (~ 15.000 mails in 2 years) is a 
>little broken:  In approx. 5% (guessed) of the cases, two mails are not 
>correctly separated by a blank line, i.e. the "From " header of the 
>latter email is directly under the last (non-empty) line of the 
>preceding letter. This results in some problems:


>Do you have any knowledge of some "fix-my-mbox-program" that does the 
>job? Can anyone help me with a perl one-liner or sth?


bin/cleanarch

should do the job.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jan 22 20:19:46 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 11:19:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Determine List Bandwidth
In-Reply-To: <e04a6c920601221027t44eb936cn@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006012211194600627523ee8c@msapiro>

Bryan Carbonnell 
>
>Again, let me know if you see any way this can be improved.


I haven't looked in great detail, but here are some random thoughts I
have on the subject for your consideration.

If you rotate logs on your system, you may need to concatenate the two
most recent logs to be sure you have all the info for one day.

If you have digest members, you may or may not be concerned that the
digest may not be sent until the 'next day'. Also, if a post is
scrubbed for the digest, it may be significantly smaller than the size
in the post log.

You could match message id's from the post log with the smtp log to get
the exact number of recipients without counting members, but this will
only get the message recipients, not digest. You can see digests in
the smtp log, but not how big or even for what list

>Also, is there someplace on Sourceforge that I can post this, so that
>everyone can "enjoy" it too?

You can post it to the Mailman patches tracker. See
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1123383&group_id=103&atid=300103>
for an example of a different script with a different purpose to see
how this works.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kd5de at nwla.com  Sun Jan 22 20:27:38 2006
From: kd5de at nwla.com (Mel Sojka)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 13:27:38 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Host problem with 2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060122105837028146e7971e@msapiro>
References: <PC174020060122105837028146e7971e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43D3DCAA.3080504@nwla.com>

Well I might need to post this to the list but I am now having errors on 
the moved list that got it locked down can't find the config.pck.last no 
such file or directory. Below is what I am getting form the error log. 
Last few entries are new looks like I have problems related to the move. 
Need a FAQ for sure.

-- 
System Janitor/Network Plumber http://www.nwla.com
Linux User #25446    Linux 2.6.14

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From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jan 22 21:06:59 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 12:06:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Host problem with 2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <43D3DCAA.3080504@nwla.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006012212065904377523f010@msapiro>

Mel Sojka 

>I am now having errors on 
>the moved list that got it locked down can't find the config.pck.last no 
>such file or directory. Below is what I am getting form the error log. 
>Last few entries are new looks like I have problems related to the move. 
>Need a FAQ for sure.


>
>Jan 14 12:00:01 2006 (20978) couldn't load config file /usr/local/mailman/lists/maillist/config.pck.last
>[Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/maillist/config.pck.last'


These are two different errors. The one above, is something is having
some diffilcuty with /usr/local/mailman/lists/maillist/config.pck. The
mention of config.pck.last may be a red herring because lists
instantiation tries all the names and only reports the last one.


>Jan 22 11:18:12 2006 mailmanctl(248): Traceback (most recent call last):
>Jan 22 11:18:12 2006 mailmanctl(248):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 547, in ?
>Jan 22 11:18:12 2006 mailmanctl(248):      main()
>Jan 22 11:18:12 2006 mailmanctl(248):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 473, in main
>Jan 22 11:18:12 2006 mailmanctl(248):      pid, status = os.wait()
>Jan 22 11:18:12 2006 mailmanctl(248):   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 433, in sigalrm_handler
>Jan 22 11:18:12 2006 mailmanctl(248):      lock.refresh()
>Jan 22 11:18:12 2006 mailmanctl(248):   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 229, in refresh
>Jan 22 11:18:12 2006 mailmanctl(248):      raise NotLockedError, '%s: %s' % (repr(self), self.__read())
>Jan 22 11:18:12 2006 mailmanctl(248): Mailman.LockFile . NotLockedError :  <LockFile 1080919564: /usr/local/mailman/locks/master-qrunner [unlocked: 108000sec] pid=248>: /usr/local/mailman/locks/master-qrunner.cat1.9186 


This one seems to say that somehow the master qrunner lock got removed
within the preceding 24 hours. Was a 'bin/mailmanctl -s start' run
while another bin/mailmanctl was still running?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jan 22 21:52:07 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 12:52:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] broken mbox files: No blank lines before "From"
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060122105522075054158ca4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601221252070531a977ad7a@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>bin/cleanarch
>
>should do the job.


bin/cleanarch seems to be broken. A patch is attached that will fix it,
or you can download a fixed version at
<http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/mailman/mailman/bin/cleanarch?view=log>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Jan 22 21:50:38 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 21:50:38 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] notification system
In-Reply-To: <33345.66.207.217.142.1137947679.squirrel@www.gostick.ca>
References: <33413.66.207.217.142.1137896330.squirrel@www.gostick.ca>   
	<p06200718bff8a224fcf0@[10.0.1.210]>
	<33345.66.207.217.142.1137947679.squirrel@www.gostick.ca>
Message-ID: <p0620071bbff9a03686d5@[10.0.1.210]>

At 11:34 AM -0500 2006-01-22, Matt Gostick wrote:

>  Yeah, that is what I do now, but I am at the point where I am sending so
>  many emails per day that my penetration rate is decreasing b/c of Junk/Spam
>  folders.

	Ahh.  Yes, that could be a problem.

>            I was hoping that using a standard program where the
>  unsubscribe/subscribe system was known and trusted by isp's that I would
>  get better penetration.

	There are lots of spammers out there that use Mailman to spew 
their sewage, or they do a pretty decent job of spoofing Mailman 
while actually using other tools.  Just having the Mailman name on 
the outgoing message wouldn't save you anything.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Jan 22 21:48:39 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 21:48:39 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] broken mbox files: No blank lines before "From"
In-Reply-To: <200601221518.49396.bastian@bastian-friedrich.de>
References: <200601221518.49396.bastian@bastian-friedrich.de>
Message-ID: <p0620071abff99f835cb3@[10.0.1.210]>

At 3:18 PM +0100 2006-01-22, Bastian Friedrich wrote:

>  Do you know how this problem occurs? Should I report this to mailman's
>  bug tracker?

	I have no idea.  You could always file something in the tracker, 
and if it's a known issue or something that is out of the control of 
Mailman, they can provide that information at that time.  I would 
also hope that they would update the FAQ Wizard in this case.

>  Do you have any idea how to fix the problem? I'd be happy to hack a
>  newline in all necessary places - but the box is a little big...

	Editors like emacs, nvi, or vim can usually handle arbitrarily 
large binary files without too much problems.  But there may be 
better ways to resolve this issue.

>  Do you have any knowledge of some "fix-my-mbox-program" that does the
>  job? Can anyone help me with a perl one-liner or sth?

	There are probably some Perl or Python scripts that have been 
hacked together, but I also believe that the "formail" program from 
the "procmail" package would be useful in this case.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Jan 22 21:59:12 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 21:59:12 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Determine List Bandwidth
In-Reply-To: <e04a6c920601221027t44eb936cn@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e04a6c920601191650l1c6944c9v@mail.gmail.com>
	<e04a6c920601211255m46d9d645u@mail.gmail.com>
	<e04a6c920601221027t44eb936cn@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p0620071cbff9a17cd344@[10.0.1.210]>

At 1:27 PM -0500 2006-01-22, Bryan Carbonnell wrote:

>>  > Is there any facility within Mailman to determine the bandwidth used
>>  > by a specific list?
>>
>>  Since there is no inbuilt way to do this with Mailman, I wrote a
>>  Python script to parse the POST log and take the size of the posts to
>>  a specific list and then multiply that by the number of active
>>  subscribers at the time this script was run.
>>
>>  This gets the "stats" from the day before the script is run.

	[ ... deletia ... ]

>  This is an updated version, which now includes that facility to e-mail
>  the results.
>
>  I have also tried it on my server and it works fine for me. I think
>  that some of the commands or modules require Python 2.3 or higher.

	Thinking about this some more, this sounds kind of like what I'm 
doing with the "MailMan Daily Status Report (mmdsr)" script, which 
you can find at 
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1123383&group_id=103&atid=300103>. 
I'm working to get this included in the contrib/ directory of 
Mailman, so that everyone will get a copy of it with the tarball, as 
opposed to having to download it separately.


	Of course, my stuff is written in Bourne shell and not Python, 
but there might be some stuff there that you find useful.  I 
recommend you check it out and see what you think.

	If you find anything useful and that you want to incorporate into 
your tool, I would ask that you please let me know, although that 
isn't required according to the terms of the BSD-style license that I 
use.

	If you've got stuff that you think I might find interesting, I'd 
appreciate getting more information from you on the kind of output 
you think is useful and how you're creating it.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From bastian at bastian-friedrich.de  Sun Jan 22 22:20:24 2006
From: bastian at bastian-friedrich.de (Bastian Friedrich)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 22:20:24 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] broken mbox files: No blank lines before "From"
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060122105522075054158ca4@msapiro>
References: <PC174020060122105522075054158ca4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200601222220.25148.bastian@bastian-friedrich.de>

Hi,

On Sunday 22 January 2006 19:55, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Bastian Friedrich wrote:
> > not correctly separated by a blank line, i.e. the "From " header of
> > the latter email is directly under the last (non-empty) line of the
> > preceding letter.
>
> bin/cleanarch

There it was... directly at my hands... :)

Thx a lot, cleanarch did a perfect job (although my fscked up SuSE Linux 
installation will not execute it... *grrr*)

   Bastian

-- 
 Bastian Friedrich                  bastian at bastian-friedrich.de
 Adress & Fon available on my HP   http://www.bastian-friedrich.de/
\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\
\ My keyboard has an F1 key. Where is the NASCAR key?



From ml at ancalagon.inka.de  Sun Jan 22 23:41:10 2006
From: ml at ancalagon.inka.de (Thomas Hochstein)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 23:41:10 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] broken mbox files: No blank lines before "From"
References: <200601221518.49396.bastian@bastian-friedrich.de>
Message-ID: <alm.0601222341.689@windlord.akallabeth.de>

Bastian Friedrich schrieb:

> Do you have any knowledge of some "fix-my-mbox-program" that does the 
> job? Can anyone help me with a perl one-liner or sth?

Look for a "typical" From-Line like
| From abcdze at abc.def.ghi Fri Sep 8 13:21:43 2003
(I'd use a regular expression for that) with a non-empty line before
it and replace that $line with "\n$line".

-thh


From manuel at arteryplanet.net  Mon Jan 23 00:01:47 2006
From: manuel at arteryplanet.net (ArteryPlanet.Net :: Manuel Kissoyan)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 20:01:47 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] is driving me crazy
Message-ID: <014901c61fa7$eb821c50$6401a8c0@sarna>

We moved this client from one server to other because his mailing list were going down every week, in fact for some reason is shutid donw the whole mailman, hope someone could help us with this, we re installed mailman and also we deleted and created the list again, it ran for a month now again every week is going down, just a note...before we moved this list the mailman was working without problem in this server, so is something specific with this list, is crazy...any help?

I did find some logs probably could help.....

---------------
Jan 18 17:59:46 2006 admin(4202): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 

admin(4202): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.6 -----] 

admin(4202): [----- Traceback ------] 

admin(4202): Traceback (most recent call last):

admin(4202):   File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/scripts/driver", line 109, in run_main

admin(4202):     sys.stdout.write(tempstdout.getvalue())

admin(4202): IOError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe

admin(4202): [----- Python Information -----] 

admin(4202): sys.version     =   2.2.3 (#1, Feb  2 2005, 12:20:51) 

[GCC 3.2.3 20030502 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.3-49)] 

admin(4202): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python2 

admin(4202): sys.prefix      =   /usr 

admin(4202): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr 

admin(4202): sys.path        =   /usr 

admin(4202): sys.platform    =   linux2 

admin(4202): [----- Environment Variables -----] 

admin(4202):    PATH_INFO: /mercedes_striplin.net 

admin(4202):    HTTP_COOKIE: banned_striplin.net+admin=xxxxxxxxxxxxeaa7cdxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx64623739; mercedes_striplin.net+admin=xxxxxxxxxxxx4b51cexxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx66366534 

admin(4202):    SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache 

admin(4202):    PYTHONPATH: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman 

admin(4202):    SCRIPT_FILENAME: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/cgi-bin/admindb 

admin(4202):    SERVER_ADMIN: webmaster at striplin.net 

admin(4202):    SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/admindb 

admin(4202):    REQUEST_METHOD: GET 

admin(4202):    HTTP_HOST: striplin.net 

admin(4202):    HTTP_KEEP_ALIVE: 300 

admin(4202):    SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1 

admin(4202):    QUERY_STRING:  

admin(4202):    REQUEST_URI: /mailman/admindb/mercedes_striplin.net 

admin(4202):    HTTP_ACCEPT: text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5 

admin(4202):    HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7 

admin(4202):    HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) 

admin(4202):    HTTP_CONNECTION: keep-alive 

admin(4202):    SERVER_NAME: www.striplin.net 

admin(4202):    REMOTE_ADDR: 70.184.21.183 

admin(4202):    REMOTE_PORT: 3450 

admin(4202):    HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en-us,en;q=0.5 

admin(4202):    PATH_TRANSLATED: /home/okiebenz/public_html/mercedes_striplin.net 

admin(4202):    SERVER_PORT: 80 

admin(4202):    GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1 

admin(4202):    HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip,deflate 

admin(4202):    SERVER_ADDR: 67.18.66.132 

admin(4202):    DOCUMENT_ROOT: /home/okiebenz/public_html 
---------------------




Also when i loged in shell, in fact right now after i restarted mailman and was the shell open....it geting the following messages....


Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
    qrunner.run()
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
    filecnt = self._oneloop()
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop
    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 143, in dequeue
    fp = open(filename)
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/qfiles/in/1137970125.9761269+9cb39062150386402d39380ce999525996a8a87c.pck'
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
    qrunner.run()
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
    filecnt = self._oneloop()
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop
    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 143, in dequeue
    fp = open(filename)
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/qfiles/bounces/1137970235.609026+0692b87b5f7b8faa6b88f82f4aa6f0394d3a7c35.pck'



Thank you in advance!



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jan 23 00:40:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 15:40:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] is driving me crazy
In-Reply-To: <014901c61fa7$eb821c50$6401a8c0@sarna>
Message-ID: <PC17402006012215405004377523f007@msapiro>

ArteryPlanet.Net :: Manuel Kissoyan wrote:

>We moved this client from one server to other because his mailing list were going down every week, in fact for some reason is shutid donw the whole mailman, hope someone could help us with this, we re installed mailman and also we deleted and created the list again, it ran for a month now again every week is going down, just a note...before we moved this list the mailman was working without problem in this server, so is something specific with this list, is crazy...any help?
>


I don't think these log entries/error reprorts are relevant to the
issue. See below.

First, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.

That said, in order to help, we need more specific information about
the problem. I.e., at this point, is it just the list, or the whole
Mailman server that's down. If the whole server, which if any queue
runners are still running. What's in the 'qrunner' log. What current
entries are in the 'error' log?. Where are the posts going, i.e. which
qfiles/* directories have entries.

If it's only the one list, presumably the qrunners are OK, but the
other questions apply. Also, what happens if you move the
lists/LIST_NAME/digest.mbox file aside? Does that help?

Also see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.023.htp>.


>I did find some logs probably could help.....
>
>---------------
>Jan 18 17:59:46 2006 admin(4202): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 
>
>admin(4202): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.6 -----] 
>
>admin(4202): [----- Traceback ------] 
>
>admin(4202): Traceback (most recent call last):
>
>admin(4202):   File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/scripts/driver", line 109, in run_main
>
>admin(4202):     sys.stdout.write(tempstdout.getvalue())
>
>admin(4202): IOError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe
>
>admin(4202): [----- Python Information -----] 
>
>admin(4202): sys.version     =   2.2.3 (#1, Feb  2 2005, 12:20:51) 
>
>[GCC 3.2.3 20030502 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.3-49)] 
>
>admin(4202): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python2 
>
>admin(4202): sys.prefix      =   /usr 
>
>admin(4202): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr 
>
>admin(4202): sys.path        =   /usr 
>
>admin(4202): sys.platform    =   linux2 
>
>admin(4202): [----- Environment Variables -----] 
>
>admin(4202):    PATH_INFO: /mercedes_striplin.net 
>
>admin(4202):    HTTP_COOKIE: banned_striplin.net+admin=xxxxxxxxxxxxeaa7cdxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx64623739; mercedes_striplin.net+admin=xxxxxxxxxxxx4b51cexxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx66366534 
>
>admin(4202):    SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache 
>
>admin(4202):    PYTHONPATH: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman 
>
>admin(4202):    SCRIPT_FILENAME: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/cgi-bin/admindb 
>
>admin(4202):    SERVER_ADMIN: webmaster at striplin.net 
>
>admin(4202):    SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/admindb 
>
>admin(4202):    REQUEST_METHOD: GET 
>
>admin(4202):    HTTP_HOST: striplin.net 
>
>admin(4202):    HTTP_KEEP_ALIVE: 300 
>
>admin(4202):    SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1 
>
>admin(4202):    QUERY_STRING:  
>
>admin(4202):    REQUEST_URI: /mailman/admindb/mercedes_striplin.net 
>
>admin(4202):    HTTP_ACCEPT: text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5 
>
>admin(4202):    HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7 
>
>admin(4202):    HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) 
>
>admin(4202):    HTTP_CONNECTION: keep-alive 
>
>admin(4202):    SERVER_NAME: www.striplin.net 
>
>admin(4202):    REMOTE_ADDR: 70.184.21.183 
>
>admin(4202):    REMOTE_PORT: 3450 
>
>admin(4202):    HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en-us,en;q=0.5 
>
>admin(4202):    PATH_TRANSLATED: /home/okiebenz/public_html/mercedes_striplin.net 
>
>admin(4202):    SERVER_PORT: 80 
>
>admin(4202):    GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1 
>
>admin(4202):    HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip,deflate 
>
>admin(4202):    SERVER_ADDR: 67.18.66.132 
>
>admin(4202):    DOCUMENT_ROOT: /home/okiebenz/public_html 
>---------------------


This indicates a user has log-in cookies as the list-admin for the
'banned' and 'mercedes' lists and is going to the admindb page for
mercedes and has possibly quit or stopped the browser before the
requested page was returned.

The actual error trace is not relevant (it just indicates the script
driver is trying to write to Apache which has already closed the
pipe), but the fact that there may have been a long delay in building
the page may indicate a problem with the list's request.pck or other
file.


>Also when i loged in shell, in fact right now after i restarted mailman and was the shell open....it geting the following messages....
>
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
>    qrunner.run()
>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
>    filecnt = self._oneloop()
>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop
>    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 143, in dequeue
>    fp = open(filename)
>IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/qfiles/in/1137970125.9761269+9cb39062150386402d39380ce999525996a8a87c.pck'
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
>    qrunner.run()
>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
>    filecnt = self._oneloop()
>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop
>    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 143, in dequeue
>    fp = open(filename)
>IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/qfiles/bounces/1137970235.609026+0692b87b5f7b8faa6b88f82f4aa6f0394d3a7c35.pck'


These imply that there are multiple qrunners processing the same
queues. Both runners see an entry and begin processing. The first
unlinks the queue entry successfully, and the second is unable to
because it is already gone. Thus the above errors (one from the 'in'
queue and one from the 'bounces' queue.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From manuel at arteryplanet.net  Mon Jan 23 01:09:12 2006
From: manuel at arteryplanet.net (ArteryPlanet.Net :: Manuel Kissoyan)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 21:09:12 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] is driving me crazy
References: <PC17402006012215405004377523f007@msapiro>
Message-ID: <021b01c61fb1$3eaa2bd0$6401a8c0@sarna>

Thanx mark,

here are some of your answers...i already contacted cpanel they reinstalled 
mailman in the other server before we moved this account and that didnt 
help, also in this server we deleted this list and created it from zero.

I remember i saw qrunners in the server process when the mailing list were 
down but somehow when i restart mailman looks like the whole list were down, 
because it starting send all the lists queued mails.

the qrunner logs at the same hour when the list gone down are:

Jan 18 17:29:19 2006 (23105) VirginRunner qrunner started.
Jan 18 18:15:51 2006 (10568) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 23055, sig: None, sts: 1, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1) 
[restarting]
Jan 18 18:15:51 2006 (11632) VirginRunner qrunner started.
Jan 18 18:16:03 2006 (480) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 23105, sig: None, sts: 1, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1) 
[restarting]
Jan 18 18:16:03 2006 (480) Qrunner VirginRunner reached maximum restart 
limit of 10, not restarting.


these are the last lines right now in the error log:

Jan 22 23:51:22 2006 qrunner(1449): Traceback (most recent call last):
Jan 22 23:51:22 2006 qrunner(1449):   File 
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
Jan 22 23:51:22 2006 qrunner(1449):      main()
Jan 22 23:51:22 2006 qrunner(1449):   File 
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
Jan 22 23:51:22 2006 qrunner(1449):      qrunner.run()
Jan 22 23:51:22 2006 qrunner(1449):   File 
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in 
run
Jan 22 23:51:22 2006 qrunner(1449):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
Jan 22 23:51:22 2006 qrunner(1449):   File 
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in 
_oneloop
Jan 22 23:51:22 2006 qrunner(1449):      msg, msgdata = 
self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
Jan 22 23:51:22 2006 qrunner(1449):   File 
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 144, 
in dequeue
Jan 22 23:51:22 2006 qrunner(1449):      os.unlink(filename)
Jan 22 23:51:22 2006 qrunner(1449): OSError :  [Errno 2] No such file or 
directory: 
'/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/qfiles/in/1137973882.55214+4702c7f0c4fdea7d0473729ec90428cec740947e.pck'
Jan 22 23:51:23 2006 qrunner(20729): Traceback (most recent call last):
Jan 22 23:51:23 2006 qrunner(20729):   File 
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
Jan 22 23:51:23 2006 qrunner(20729):      main()
Jan 22 23:51:23 2006 qrunner(20713): Traceback (most recent call last):
Jan 22 23:51:23 2006 qrunner(20729):   File 
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
Jan 22 23:51:23 2006 qrunner(20713):   File 
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
Jan 22 23:51:23 2006 qrunner(20729):      qrunner.run()
Jan 22 23:51:23 2006 qrunner(20729):   File 
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in 
run
Jan 22 23:51:23 2006 qrunner(20713):      main()
Jan 22 23:51:23 2006 qrunner(20729):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
Jan 22 23:51:23 2006 qrunner(20713):   File 
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
Jan 22 23:51:23 2006 qrunner(20729):   File 
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in 
_oneloop
Jan 22 23:51:23 2006 qrunner(20713):      qrunner.run()
Jan 22 23:51:23 2006 qrunner(20729):      msg, msgdata = 
self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
Jan 22 23:51:23 2006 qrunner(20713):   File 
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in 
run
Jan 22 23:51:23 2006 qrunner(20729):   File 
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 144, 
in dequeue
Jan 22 23:51:23 2006 qrunner(20713):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
Jan 22 23:51:23 2006 qrunner(20729):      os.unlink(filename)
Jan 22 23:51:23 2006 qrunner(20713):   File 
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in 
_oneloop
Jan 22 23:51:23 2006 qrunner(20713):      msg, msgdata = 
self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
Jan 22 23:51:23 2006 qrunner(20729): OSError :  [Errno 2] No such file or 
directory: 
'/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/qfiles/out/1137973882.55214+536fcf4d659766a32e9b94e92bfde66798394acb.pck'
Jan 22 23:51:23 2006 qrunner(20713):   File 
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 143, 
in dequeue
Jan 22 23:51:23 2006 qrunner(20713):      fp = open(filename)
Jan 22 23:51:23 2006 qrunner(20713): IOError :  [Errno 2] No such file or 
directory: 
'/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/qfiles/archive/1137973882.55214+331cf1e3f1102872474d59b9f53a1fb197f0316f.pck'
Jan 22 23:52:41 2006 qrunner(21835): Traceback (most recent call last):
Jan 22 23:52:41 2006 qrunner(21835):   File 
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
Jan 22 23:52:41 2006 qrunner(21835):      main()
Jan 22 23:52:41 2006 qrunner(21835):   File 
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
Jan 22 23:52:41 2006 qrunner(21835):      qrunner.run()
Jan 22 23:52:41 2006 qrunner(21835):   File 
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in 
run
Jan 22 23:52:41 2006 qrunner(21835):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
Jan 22 23:52:41 2006 qrunner(21835):   File 
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in 
_oneloop
Jan 22 23:52:41 2006 qrunner(21835):      msg, msgdata = 
self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
Jan 22 23:52:41 2006 qrunner(21835):   File 
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 143, 
in dequeue
Jan 22 23:52:41 2006 qrunner(21835):      fp = open(filename)
Jan 22 23:52:41 2006 qrunner(21835): IOError :  [Errno 2] No such file or 
directory: 
'/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/qfiles/bounces/1137973961.4684539+a97050f66bcd30b95df8d86fb97378a830687d6f.pck'


about...."Where are the posts going, i.e. which qfiles/* directories have 
entries.", could you please clarify...the following are the directories in 
/qfiles

drwxrwsr-x   11 mailman  mailman      4096 May 28  2004 ./
drwxrwsr-x   22 mailman  mailman      4096 Jul 20  2005 ../
drwxrws---    2 mailman  mailman      4096 Jan 22 23:51 archive/
drwxrws---    2 mailman  mailman      4096 Jan 22 23:52 bounces/
drwxrws---    2 mailman  mailman      4096 Jan 19 01:41 commands/
drwxrws---    2 mailman  mailman      8192 Jan 22 23:51 in/
drwxrws---    2 mailman  mailman      4096 May 28  2004 news/
drwxrws---    2 mailman  mailman     53248 Jan 22 23:51 out/
drwxrws---    2 mailman  mailman      4096 Jan 22 22:37 retry/
drwxrws---    2 mailman  mailman      8192 Dec 17 04:39 shunt/
drwxrws---    2 mailman  mailman     36864 Jan 22 23:44 virgin/


About "Also, what happens if you move the lists/LIST_NAME/digest.mbox file 
aside? Does that help?"

you mean delete that file? remember we already removed this list and 
re-created it so that file was created new before it gone down.

Thank you very much for the help!














----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
To: "ArteryPlanet.Net :: Manuel Kissoyan" <manuel at arteryplanet.net>; 
"mailman mailing list" <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 8:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] is driving me crazy


> ArteryPlanet.Net :: Manuel Kissoyan wrote:
>
>>We moved this client from one server to other because his mailing list 
>>were going down every week, in fact for some reason is shutid donw the 
>>whole mailman, hope someone could help us with this, we re installed 
>>mailman and also we deleted and created the list again, it ran for a month 
>>now again every week is going down, just a note...before we moved this 
>>list the mailman was working without problem in this server, so is 
>>something specific with this list, is crazy...any help?
>>
>
>
> I don't think these log entries/error reprorts are relevant to the
> issue. See below.
>
> First, see
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.
>
> That said, in order to help, we need more specific information about
> the problem. I.e., at this point, is it just the list, or the whole
> Mailman server that's down. If the whole server, which if any queue
> runners are still running. What's in the 'qrunner' log. What current
> entries are in the 'error' log?. Where are the posts going, i.e. which
> qfiles/* directories have entries.
>
> If it's only the one list, presumably the qrunners are OK, but the
> other questions apply. Also, what happens if you move the
> lists/LIST_NAME/digest.mbox file aside? Does that help?
>
> Also see
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.023.htp>.
>
>
>>I did find some logs probably could help.....
>>
>>---------------
>>Jan 18 17:59:46 2006 admin(4202): 
>>@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>>
>>admin(4202): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.6 -----]
>>
>>admin(4202): [----- Traceback ------]
>>
>>admin(4202): Traceback (most recent call last):
>>
>>admin(4202):   File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/scripts/driver", 
>>line 109, in run_main
>>
>>admin(4202):     sys.stdout.write(tempstdout.getvalue())
>>
>>admin(4202): IOError: [Errno 32] Broken pipe
>>
>>admin(4202): [----- Python Information -----]
>>
>>admin(4202): sys.version     =   2.2.3 (#1, Feb  2 2005, 12:20:51)
>>
>>[GCC 3.2.3 20030502 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.3-49)]
>>
>>admin(4202): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python2
>>
>>admin(4202): sys.prefix      =   /usr
>>
>>admin(4202): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr
>>
>>admin(4202): sys.path        =   /usr
>>
>>admin(4202): sys.platform    =   linux2
>>
>>admin(4202): [----- Environment Variables -----]
>>
>>admin(4202):    PATH_INFO: /mercedes_striplin.net
>>
>>admin(4202):    HTTP_COOKIE: 
>>banned_striplin.net+admin=xxxxxxxxxxxxeaa7cdxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx64623739; 
>>mercedes_striplin.net+admin=xxxxxxxxxxxx4b51cexxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx66366534
>>
>>admin(4202):    SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache
>>
>>admin(4202):    PYTHONPATH: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman
>>
>>admin(4202):    SCRIPT_FILENAME: 
>>/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/cgi-bin/admindb
>>
>>admin(4202):    SERVER_ADMIN: webmaster at striplin.net
>>
>>admin(4202):    SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/admindb
>>
>>admin(4202):    REQUEST_METHOD: GET
>>
>>admin(4202):    HTTP_HOST: striplin.net
>>
>>admin(4202):    HTTP_KEEP_ALIVE: 300
>>
>>admin(4202):    SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1
>>
>>admin(4202):    QUERY_STRING:
>>
>>admin(4202):    REQUEST_URI: /mailman/admindb/mercedes_striplin.net
>>
>>admin(4202):    HTTP_ACCEPT: 
>>text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5
>>
>>admin(4202):    HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7
>>
>>admin(4202):    HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; 
>>en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax)
>>
>>admin(4202):    HTTP_CONNECTION: keep-alive
>>
>>admin(4202):    SERVER_NAME: www.striplin.net
>>
>>admin(4202):    REMOTE_ADDR: 70.184.21.183
>>
>>admin(4202):    REMOTE_PORT: 3450
>>
>>admin(4202):    HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en-us,en;q=0.5
>>
>>admin(4202):    PATH_TRANSLATED: 
>>/home/okiebenz/public_html/mercedes_striplin.net
>>
>>admin(4202):    SERVER_PORT: 80
>>
>>admin(4202):    GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
>>
>>admin(4202):    HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip,deflate
>>
>>admin(4202):    SERVER_ADDR: 67.18.66.132
>>
>>admin(4202):    DOCUMENT_ROOT: /home/okiebenz/public_html
>>---------------------
>
>
> This indicates a user has log-in cookies as the list-admin for the
> 'banned' and 'mercedes' lists and is going to the admindb page for
> mercedes and has possibly quit or stopped the browser before the
> requested page was returned.
>
> The actual error trace is not relevant (it just indicates the script
> driver is trying to write to Apache which has already closed the
> pipe), but the fact that there may have been a long delay in building
> the page may indicate a problem with the list's request.pck or other
> file.
>
>
>>Also when i loged in shell, in fact right now after i restarted mailman 
>>and was the shell open....it geting the following messages....
>>
>>
>>Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
>>    main()
>>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
>>    qrunner.run()
>>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 
>> 70, in run
>>    filecnt = self._oneloop()
>>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 
>> 99, in _oneloop
>>    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", 
>> line 143, in dequeue
>>    fp = open(filename)
>>IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 
>>'/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/qfiles/in/1137970125.9761269+9cb39062150386402d39380ce999525996a8a87c.pck'
>>Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
>>    main()
>>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
>>    qrunner.run()
>>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 
>> 70, in run
>>    filecnt = self._oneloop()
>>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 
>> 99, in _oneloop
>>    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", 
>> line 143, in dequeue
>>    fp = open(filename)
>>IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 
>>'/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/qfiles/bounces/1137970235.609026+0692b87b5f7b8faa6b88f82f4aa6f0394d3a7c35.pck'
>
>
> These imply that there are multiple qrunners processing the same
> queues. Both runners see an entry and begin processing. The first
> unlinks the queue entry successfully, and the second is unable to
> because it is already gone. Thus the above errors (one from the 'in'
> queue and one from the 'bounces' queue.
>
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
>
> 




From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jan 23 02:18:48 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 17:18:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] is driving me crazy
In-Reply-To: <021b01c61fb1$3eaa2bd0$6401a8c0@sarna>
Message-ID: <PC17402006012217184802747523ef62@msapiro>

ArteryPlanet.Net :: Manuel Kissoyan wrote:

>I remember i saw qrunners in the server process when the mailing list were 
>down but somehow when i restart mailman looks like the whole list were down, 
>because it starting send all the lists queued mails.


This only means that perhaps one runner was down and starting anew
created multiple copies of some. Hint: only run 'bin/mailmanctl -s
start' in an init file that runs on system (re)boot. Under normal
circumstances when running bin/mailmanctl manually, don't use '-s'.



>the qrunner logs at the same hour when the list gone down are:
>
>Jan 18 17:29:19 2006 (23105) VirginRunner qrunner started.
>Jan 18 18:15:51 2006 (10568) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 23055, sig: None, sts: 1, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1) 
>[restarting]
>Jan 18 18:15:51 2006 (11632) VirginRunner qrunner started.
>Jan 18 18:16:03 2006 (480) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 23105, sig: None, sts: 1, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1) 
>[restarting]
>Jan 18 18:16:03 2006 (480) Qrunner VirginRunner reached maximum restart 
>limit of 10, not restarting.



So VirginRunner isn't (wasn't on Jan 18) running. Are there any error
log entries from Jan 18 coincident with these subprocess exits?



>these are the last lines right now in the error log:

<snip>
>Jan 22 23:51:22 2006 qrunner(1449): OSError :  [Errno 2] No such file or 
>directory: 
>'/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/qfiles/in/1137973882.55214+4702c7f0c4fdea7d0473729ec90428cec740947e.pck'

<snip>
>Jan 22 23:51:23 2006 qrunner(20729): OSError :  [Errno 2] No such file or 
>directory: 
>'/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/qfiles/out/1137973882.55214+536fcf4d659766a32e9b94e92bfde66798394acb.pck'

<snip>
>Jan 22 23:51:23 2006 qrunner(20713): IOError :  [Errno 2] No such file or 
>directory: 
>'/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/qfiles/archive/1137973882.55214+331cf1e3f1102872474d59b9f53a1fb197f0316f.pck'

<snip>>Jan 22 23:52:41 2006 qrunner(21835): IOError :  [Errno 2] No
such file or 
>directory: 
>'/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/qfiles/bounces/1137973961.4684539+a97050f66bcd30b95df8d86fb97378a830687d6f.pck'


So, there are probably multiple copies of at least IncomingRunner,
OutgoingRunner, ArchRunner and BounceRunner.

Do "ps -fAw | grep 'python'" or however you spell the ps options on
your system to get all processes including command lines. There should
be exactly one each of mailmanctl, ArchRunner, BounceRunner,
CommandRunner, IncomingRunner, NewsRunner, OutgoingRunner,
VirginRunner and RetryRunner, except in the unlikely case that you are
processing your queues in slices in which case there should be one of
each runner for each unique slice.

If there are more, first do "bin/mailmanctl stop". Then if there are
any left, send them SIGTERM until they're all gone. Then start mailman
again.


>about...."Where are the posts going, i.e. which qfiles/* directories have 
>entries.", could you please clarify...the following are the directories in 
>/qfiles
>
>drwxrwsr-x   11 mailman  mailman      4096 May 28  2004 ./
>drwxrwsr-x   22 mailman  mailman      4096 Jul 20  2005 ../
>drwxrws---    2 mailman  mailman      4096 Jan 22 23:51 archive/
>drwxrws---    2 mailman  mailman      4096 Jan 22 23:52 bounces/
>drwxrws---    2 mailman  mailman      4096 Jan 19 01:41 commands/
>drwxrws---    2 mailman  mailman      8192 Jan 22 23:51 in/
>drwxrws---    2 mailman  mailman      4096 May 28  2004 news/
>drwxrws---    2 mailman  mailman     53248 Jan 22 23:51 out/
>drwxrws---    2 mailman  mailman      4096 Jan 22 22:37 retry/
>drwxrws---    2 mailman  mailman      8192 Dec 17 04:39 shunt/
>drwxrws---    2 mailman  mailman     36864 Jan 22 23:44 virgin/


And what is in the archive/, bounces/, etc. directories? More
importantly, when things are not working, in which of those 9
directories (queues) are the messages getting stuck?


>About "Also, what happens if you move the lists/LIST_NAME/digest.mbox file 
>aside? Does that help?"
>
>you mean delete that file? remember we already removed this list and 
>re-created it so that file was created new before it gone down.


The lists/LIST_NAME/digest.mbox file is where posts are collected for
an eventual digest. When it reaches digest_size_threshold size or when
cron/senddigests runs if digest_send_periodic is yes, it is used to
create the digest and then removed. I.e., under usual circumstances,
it is removed by Mailman every day.

The issue is that there are known cases when a somehow malformed or
badly encoded post has been posted and saved to digest.mbox, and this
has stopped processing for that list. This is why I suggested moving
it aside - i.e. moving it out of the lists/LIST_NAME/ directory to see
if that allows the list's processing to resume. This would indicate
the problem is a 'bad' post in digest.mbox. If moving the file aside
didn't help, then the problem is elsewhere.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jan 23 03:34:40 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 18:34:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] is driving me crazy
In-Reply-To: <032201c61fc2$311e8cc0$6401a8c0@sarna>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601221834400352ba072fa8@msapiro>

ArteryPlanet.Net :: Manuel Kissoyan wrote:
>
>>So VirginRunner isn't (wasn't on Jan 18) running. Are there any error
>>log entries from Jan 18 coincident with these subprocess exits?
>
>
>the following rae the complete january 18 error logs:
>
<snip>
>Jan 18 17:29:18 2006 qrunner(11252): Traceback (most recent call last):
>Jan 18 17:29:18 2006 qrunner(11252):   File 
>"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
>Jan 18 17:29:18 2006 qrunner(11252):      main()
>Jan 18 17:29:18 2006 qrunner(11252):   File 
>"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
>Jan 18 17:29:18 2006 qrunner(11252):      qrunner.run()
>Jan 18 17:29:18 2006 qrunner(11252):   File 
>"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in 
>run
>Jan 18 17:29:18 2006 qrunner(11252):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
>Jan 18 17:29:18 2006 qrunner(11252):   File 
>"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in 
>_oneloop
>Jan 18 17:29:18 2006 qrunner(11252):      msg, msgdata = 
>self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>Jan 18 17:29:18 2006 qrunner(11252):   File 
>"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 143, 
>in dequeue
>Jan 18 17:29:18 2006 qrunner(11252):      fp = open(filename)
>Jan 18 17:29:18 2006 qrunner(11252): IOError :  [Errno 2] No such file or 
>directory: 
>'/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/qfiles/virgin/1137605342.444644+3e6a3d42a04f469e9141ef703b4839b34ee8d6f0.pck'


The above is the error that caused VirginRunner to die and be restarted
at 17:29:19 (from your previous post).

<snip>
>Jan 18 18:15:50 2006 qrunner(23055): Traceback (most recent call last):
>Jan 18 18:15:50 2006 qrunner(23055):   File 
>"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
>Jan 18 18:15:51 2006 qrunner(23055):      main()
>Jan 18 18:15:51 2006 qrunner(23055):   File 
>"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
>Jan 18 18:15:51 2006 qrunner(23055):      qrunner.run()
>Jan 18 18:15:51 2006 qrunner(23055):   File 
>"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in 
>run
>Jan 18 18:15:51 2006 qrunner(23055):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
>Jan 18 18:15:51 2006 qrunner(23055):   File 
>"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in 
>_oneloop
>Jan 18 18:15:51 2006 qrunner(23055):      msg, msgdata = 
>self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>Jan 18 18:15:51 2006 qrunner(23055):   File 
>"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 144, 
>in dequeue
>Jan 18 18:15:51 2006 qrunner(23055):      os.unlink(filename)
>Jan 18 18:15:51 2006 qrunner(23055): OSError :  [Errno 2] No such file or 
>directory: 
>'/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/qfiles/virgin/1137608150.1634059+d951b6ced74ddea7b7260e43d84b8062057dd5ca.pck'

And the above caused the exit at 18:15:51


>Jan 18 18:16:03 2006 qrunner(23105): Traceback (most recent call last):
>Jan 18 18:16:03 2006 qrunner(23105):   File 
>"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
>Jan 18 18:16:03 2006 qrunner(23105):      main()
>Jan 18 18:16:03 2006 qrunner(23105):   File 
>"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
>Jan 18 18:16:03 2006 qrunner(23105):      qrunner.run()
>Jan 18 18:16:03 2006 qrunner(23105):   File 
>"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in 
>run
>Jan 18 18:16:03 2006 qrunner(23105):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
>Jan 18 18:16:03 2006 qrunner(23105):   File 
>"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in 
>_oneloop
>Jan 18 18:16:03 2006 qrunner(23105):      msg, msgdata = 
>self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>Jan 18 18:16:03 2006 qrunner(23105):   File 
>"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 143, 
>in dequeue
>Jan 18 18:16:03 2006 qrunner(23105):      fp = open(filename)
>Jan 18 18:16:03 2006 qrunner(23105): IOError :  [Errno 2] No such file or 
>directory: 
>'/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/qfiles/virgin/1137608150.1682301+f5aca5ce19934f2c956292d95317005e899072bf.pck'


And the above caused the exit at 18:16:03 from which it didn't restart


>I just shuted down mailman and were more than one processes running i had 
>kille them and restarted it, ill wait another week to see what hapen,.


It looks like you've had miltiple runners running for some time,
however this is probably the result of attempts to correct the
problems, not the cause of the problems. I.e., in the above case, it
looks like there were two VirginRunners running until 18:16:03 on Jan
18 at which point one died and didn't restart perhaps leaving only one.

In the future, try to get some information when the list is not
working. If some, but not all qrunners have died, check the qrunner
and error logs. Then if not all qrunners are running, first do
'bin/mailmanctl stop' to stop what's running, and only do
'bin/mailmanctl start' to resume after checking with ps to be sure all
the Mailman processes have stopped.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 23 03:42:59 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 21:42:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Output from "cron" command
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601032306100343fe47c881@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200601032306100343fe47c881@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43D442B3.10009@yahoo.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> mcnutt wrote:
 >>
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 138, in __getmsgids
>>    ids = [k for k, (op, data) in self.__db.items() if op == rtype]
>> ValueError: too many values to unpack
> 
> 
> It looks like some lists/listname/request.pck (or request.db for pre
> 2.1.5) file may be corrupted. Also, see
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-August/046235.html>


My 2.1.7 upgrade produced the same error that mcnutt got, but only for a 
few of many lists.  I followed the above advice and removed request.pck, 
but what do I do now to return the pending requests so that all the 
individual list admins can address them? (is this even possible?)

All help is sincerely appreciated, and I want to echo Glenn Sieb's 
earlier comments on the overall lack of problems that Mailman has given 
me.   I too have been running Mailman for 5+ years, and the upgrades are 
generally painless and easy to deal with.  Kudos to the developers for 
all their skilled work, which is the true reason that Mailman works so well.

-Jim P.




From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jan 23 04:09:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 19:09:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Output from "cron" command
In-Reply-To: <43D442B3.10009@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060122190901039977fe5ad0@msapiro>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> mcnutt wrote:
> >>
>>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 138, in __getmsgids
>>>    ids = [k for k, (op, data) in self.__db.items() if op == rtype]
>>> ValueError: too many values to unpack
>> 
>> 
>> It looks like some lists/listname/request.pck (or request.db for pre
>> 2.1.5) file may be corrupted. Also, see
>> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-August/046235.html>
>
>
>My 2.1.7 upgrade produced the same error that mcnutt got, but only for a 
>few of many lists.  I followed the above advice and removed request.pck, 
>but what do I do now to return the pending requests so that all the 
>individual list admins can address them? (is this even possible?)

I assume you are no longer getting errors from cron/checkdbs. What
happens if you put the request.pck back and try to go to the admindb
page for the list? Does this produce the error? If not, does it update
the request.pck? If so, this may fix the problem.

If none of this helps, or if you have a new request.pck with requests
since removing the old one, you could try bin/dumpdb on the
request.pck files to see what's in them, although I'm not sure how you
would use this information if you couldn't use the files themselves.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 23 04:37:41 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 22:37:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Output from "cron" command
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060122190901039977fe5ad0@msapiro>
References: <PC174020060122190901039977fe5ad0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43D44F85.4080203@yahoo.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> I assume you are no longer getting errors from cron/checkdbs. What
> happens if you put the request.pck back and try to go to the admindb
> page for the list? Does this produce the error? 

Yes.

> If not, does it update the request.pck? If so, this may fix the problem.

If I delete the request.pck files Mailman recreates them, but then the 
admin pages show no pending issues.

> If none of this helps, or if you have a new request.pck with requests
> since removing the old one, you could try bin/dumpdb on the
> request.pck files to see what's in them, although I'm not sure how you
> would use this information if you couldn't use the files themselves.

bin/dumpdb shows me the data from the various request.pck files, what is 
the format of entires, presumably they are subscription/post requests?

Thanks for the help,

-Jim P.



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jan 23 05:49:00 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 20:49:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Output from "cron" command
In-Reply-To: <43D44F85.4080203@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060122204900003932298aa7@msapiro>

Jim Popovitch wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> 
>> I assume you are no longer getting errors from cron/checkdbs. What
>> happens if you put the request.pck back and try to go to the admindb
>> page for the list? Does this produce the error? 
>
>Yes.
>
>> If not, does it update the request.pck? If so, this may fix the problem.
>
>If I delete the request.pck files Mailman recreates them, but then the 
>admin pages show no pending issues.


I meant what if you restore the old request.pck and then go to the
admindb page for the list.


>> If none of this helps, or if you have a new request.pck with requests
>> since removing the old one, you could try bin/dumpdb on the
>> request.pck files to see what's in them, although I'm not sure how you
>> would use this information if you couldn't use the files themselves.
>
>bin/dumpdb shows me the data from the various request.pck files, what is 
>the format of entires, presumably they are subscription/post requests?


Yes, they are. The file is a pickled dictionary with keys and values.
The keys are generally numbers called msgids (not to be confused with
email Message-Id:) and the values are 2-tuples consisting of an
operation and data.

There is a special key = 'version' with data (0, 1), i.e. operation = 0
and data = version number currently = 1.

The rest of the keys are numeric and the operations are numbers as
follows:
1 -> held message
2 -> subscription request
3 -> unsub request

The data varies according to the operation.

For a held message, data is a 6-tuple consisting of time, sender,
subject, hold reason, message filename and message metadata dictionary.

For a sub, data is a 6-tuple consisting of time, address, full name,
password, digest flag and language.

For an unsub, data is just the address.

See Mailman/ListAdmin.py for more detail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Jan 23 08:54:37 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 16:54:37 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] notification system
In-Reply-To: <33413.66.207.217.142.1137896330.squirrel@www.gostick.ca> (Matt
	Gostick's message of "Sat, 21 Jan 2006 21:18:50 -0500 (EST)")
References: <33413.66.207.217.142.1137896330.squirrel@www.gostick.ca>
Message-ID: <8764obe5vm.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Matt" == Matt Gostick <matt at crazylogic.net> writes:

    Matt> I have installed Mailman in hopes of using it as a type of
    Matt> 'notification' system.  For example, a user subscribes to
    Matt> the list, and after subscribing I can send him/her an email
    Matt> notifiying them an event that happens on my website.  The
    Matt> event would be unique for this user and should only be sent
    Matt> to him/her.  Is mailman the appropriate program for me?

No.

    Matt> If not, can anyone suggest another standard program that
    Matt> would do the job?

You want an issue tracker: I would suggest Roundup or RT, but I'm sure
there are others that would do a good job.  If you don't need to
handle incoming mail (for "subscriptions" or other user interaction)
and are hoping to grow to where you need an industrial-strength
solution, Bugzilla.  (Not that Roundup or RT aren't industrial
strength, just that the very large issue trackers I know of are
roll-yer-own, like Debian BTS and SourceForge Tracker, or Bugzilla.)


-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From manuel at arteryplanet.net  Mon Jan 23 16:23:05 2006
From: manuel at arteryplanet.net (ArteryPlanet.Net :: Manuel Kissoyan)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 12:23:05 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] merge archives
References: <PC17402006010320562408901a789a72@msapiro>
Message-ID: <024d01c62030$e9f7fba0$6401a8c0@sarna>

Thank you Mark,

What is houdl do with the archives? i mean there are list_name.mbox and the 
list_name directory, the list_name directory have the previous months info, 
i must copy all this directories before merge the mbox file?

It have the databases and attachements directories also, i must overwrite 
them withe backed up files? and the index.html and pipermail.pck files?

Thank you!




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
To: <manuel at arteryplanet.net>
Cc: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 1:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] merge archives


> Manuel Kissoyan wrote:
>>
>>We saved one of the accounts archives and then deleted and re-created the
>>mailing list, were running for a week, now we need merge the saved 
>>archives
>>with the existing one after the list re-creation. If were another month is
>>easy but how you merge same month archives?
>
>
> If you saved the old archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file,
> just concatenate the old and new files to make a
> archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox that contains all the
> messages, and then rebuild the archives with
>
> bin/arch --wipe listname
>
> If you didn't save the old archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox
> file, you can make an approximate reconstruction by editing the old
> archives/private/listname/yyyy-mmmmm.txt file to unobscure the email
> addresses.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
>
> 




From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jan 23 18:08:05 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 09:08:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] merge archives
In-Reply-To: <024d01c62030$e9f7fba0$6401a8c0@sarna>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601230908050937c5dccc2e@msapiro>

>
>What is houdl do with the archives? i mean there are list_name.mbox and the 
>list_name directory, the list_name directory have the previous months info, 
>i must copy all this directories before merge the mbox file?
>
>It have the databases and attachements directories also, i must overwrite 
>them withe backed up files? and the index.html and pipermail.pck files?


When you run

bin/arch --wipe list_name

it reads the contents of archives/private/list_name.mbox/list_name.mbox
and entirely rebuilds the structure in archives/private/list_name/.
Thus, you only need to merge the list_name.mbox files into one
archives/private/list_name.mbox/list_name.mbox that contains all the
messages and run the above command.

You don't need to do anything in the archives/private/list_name/
directory because it will be entirely rebuilt.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From carbonnb at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 20:15:37 2006
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 14:15:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Determine List Bandwidth
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006012211194600627523ee8c@msapiro>
References: <e04a6c920601221027t44eb936cn@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006012211194600627523ee8c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <e04a6c920601231115k61fc6b2an@mail.gmail.com>

On 22/01/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Bryan Carbonnell
> >
> >Again, let me know if you see any way this can be improved.
>
> I haven't looked in great detail, but here are some random thoughts I
> have on the subject for your consideration.
>
> If you rotate logs on your system, you may need to concatenate the two
> most recent logs to be sure you have all the info for one day.

Good point. Hadn't thought of that, but surely would have been bitten :)

> If you have digest members, you may or may not be concerned that the
> digest may not be sent until the 'next day'. Also, if a post is

At this point, I'm not. I'm just after a ballpark, so I can convince
the powers that be to drop the Max message size for a specific list I
maintain. Not enough snipping and too much top posting :(

> scrubbed for the digest, it may be significantly smaller than the size
> in the post log.

So if I understand what you just wrote, the size in the post log is
what comes to Mailman before it gets scrubbed?

> You could match message id's from the post log with the smtp log to get
> the exact number of recipients without counting members, but this will
> only get the message recipients, not digest. You can see digests in
> the smtp log, but not how big or even for what list

Hmm sounds like too much work for what I need the info for :)

> >Also, is there someplace on Sourceforge that I can post this, so that
> >everyone can "enjoy" it too?
>
> You can post it to the Mailman patches tracker. See
> <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1123383&group_id=103&atid=300103>
> for an example of a different script with a different purpose to see
> how this works.

Thanks, I will eventually put it up there.

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"


From carbonnb at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 20:21:09 2006
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 14:21:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Determine List Bandwidth
In-Reply-To: <p0620071cbff9a17cd344@10.0.1.210>
References: <e04a6c920601191650l1c6944c9v@mail.gmail.com>
	<e04a6c920601211255m46d9d645u@mail.gmail.com>
	<e04a6c920601221027t44eb936cn@mail.gmail.com>
	<p0620071cbff9a17cd344@10.0.1.210>
Message-ID: <e04a6c920601231121j7ac4b748i@mail.gmail.com>

On 22/01/06, Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote:
> At 1:27 PM -0500 2006-01-22, Bryan Carbonnell wrote:
>
> >>  > Is there any facility within Mailman to determine the bandwidth used
> >>  > by a specific list?
> >>
> >>  Since there is no inbuilt way to do this with Mailman, I wrote a
> >>  Python script to parse the POST log and take the size of the posts to
> >>  a specific list and then multiply that by the number of active
> >>  subscribers at the time this script was run.

>         Thinking about this some more, this sounds kind of like what I'm
> doing with the "MailMan Daily Status Report (mmdsr)" script, which
> you can find at

Actually your script gave me the idea that it may be possible.

> I'm working to get this included in the contrib/ directory of
> Mailman, so that everyone will get a copy of it with the tarball, as
> opposed to having to download it separately.

Hopefully it'll be there with v2.1.8. It's a great script.

>         Of course, my stuff is written in Bourne shell and not Python,
> but there might be some stuff there that you find useful.  I
> recommend you check it out and see what you think.

I'm using it now and its working wonders. The only thing I have
noticed was when I rotated the logs, the e-mailed results would all be
0 or empty depending on if it was supposed to be a string or  a
numeric.

It takes a restart of Mailman to get the stats going again.

>         If you find anything useful and that you want to incorporate into
> your tool, I would ask that you please let me know, although that
> isn't required according to the terms of the BSD-style license that I
> use.

I used your idea that the script can e-mail the results. I looked at
what you did and then figured out how to send an e-mail via Python.

>         If you've got stuff that you think I might find interesting, I'd
> appreciate getting more information from you on the kind of output
> you think is useful and how you're creating it.

Will do.

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"


From elvisfern at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 20:25:21 2006
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 11:25:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email accounts for bounces, admin, confirm, etc
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50601231125n7163147dlfab126bd162df539@mail.gmail.com>

Hello folks,


I have created a mail list unix_sysadmin, and this email account is
"approved"  by my IT team.
I use sendmail, and in my /etc/aliases, looks like this.

## unix_sysadmin mailing list
unix_sysadmin:              "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman post
unix_sysadmin"
unix_sysadmin-admin:        "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman admin
unix_sysadmin"
unix_sysadmin-bounces:      "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman bounces
unix_sysadmin"
unix_sysadmin-confirm:      "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman confirm
unix_sysadmin"
unix_sysadmin-join:         "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman join
unix_sysadmin"
unix_sysadmin-leave:        "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman leave
unix_sysadmin"
unix_sysadmin-owner:        "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman owner
unix_sysadmin"
unix_sysadmin-request:      "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman request
unix_sysadmin"
unix_sysadmin-subscribe:    "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe
unix_sysadmin"
unix_sysadmin-unsubscribe:  "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe
unix_sysadmin"

My question is regarding the unix_sysadmin-admin, unix_sysadmin-bounces,
unix_sysadmin-confirm, etc.
Do I need to get the IT team to create seperate email accounts for
unix_sysadmin-admin, unix_sysadmin-bounces, unix_sysadmin-confirm, etc?
I plan to create a bunch of other mail lists. So, does email accounts need
to be created for each -admin, -bounces, -confirm.
Or, is there a way that all the email lists -admin, -bounces, -confirm can
be consolidated into a single email account?

Could someone share their idea's.

Thanks
Elvis Fernandes


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jan 23 20:45:25 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 11:45:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Determine List Bandwidth
In-Reply-To: <e04a6c920601231121j7ac4b748i@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601231145250593b2fd06ea@msapiro>

Bryan Carbonnell wrote:

>On 22/01/06, Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote:
>
>> I'm working to get this included in the contrib/ directory of
>> Mailman, so that everyone will get a copy of it with the tarball, as
>> opposed to having to download it separately.
>
>Hopefully it'll be there with v2.1.8. It's a great script.

Actually it made it into the 2.1.7 final release, but the README.mmdsr
could use some enhancement for 2.1.8 :-)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jan 23 21:07:00 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 12:07:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Determine List Bandwidth
In-Reply-To: <e04a6c920601231115k61fc6b2an@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006012312070007032622f89f@msapiro>

Bryan Carbonnell wrote:
>
>So if I understand what you just wrote, the size in the post log is
>what comes to Mailman before it gets scrubbed?


No. The size in the post log is the actual size of what is sent out to
message subscribers including all headers and attachments included in
the message. If scrub_nondigest is true, this will be the size of the
scrubbed message. My original remark that the message might be
significantly smaller in the digest was based on scrub_nondigest being
false so that the message subscribers received and the post log
reflected a non-scrubbed message that was subsequently scrubbed for
the digest.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From carbonnb at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 21:21:21 2006
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 15:21:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Determine List Bandwidth
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006012312070007032622f89f@msapiro>
References: <e04a6c920601231115k61fc6b2an@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006012312070007032622f89f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <e04a6c920601231221t168b2929q@mail.gmail.com>

On 23/01/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Bryan Carbonnell wrote:
> >
> >So if I understand what you just wrote, the size in the post log is
> >what comes to Mailman before it gets scrubbed?
>
> No. The size in the post log is the actual size of what is sent out to
> message subscribers including all headers and attachments included in
> the message. If scrub_nondigest is true, this will be the size of the
> scrubbed message. My original remark that the message might be
> significantly smaller in the digest was based on scrub_nondigest being
> false so that the message subscribers received and the post log
> reflected a non-scrubbed message that was subsequently scrubbed for
> the digest.

Ah OK. I'd never noticed that option before. For me it's a moot point
anyway. No attachments go out to any of my lists. Everything except
plain old text gets scrubbed.

Thanks.

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jan 23 21:45:03 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 12:45:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email accounts for bounces, admin, confirm, etc
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc50601231125n7163147dlfab126bd162df539@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006012312450304370ecfbc98@msapiro>

Elvis Fernandes wrote:
>
>I have created a mail list unix_sysadmin, and this email account is
>"approved"  by my IT team.
>I use sendmail, and in my /etc/aliases, looks like this.
>
>## unix_sysadmin mailing list
>unix_sysadmin:              "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman post unix_sysadmin"
>unix_sysadmin-admin:        "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman admin unix_sysadmin"
>unix_sysadmin-bounces:      "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman bounces unix_sysadmin"
<snip>
>
>My question is regarding the unix_sysadmin-admin, unix_sysadmin-bounces,
>unix_sysadmin-confirm, etc.
>Do I need to get the IT team to create seperate email accounts for
>unix_sysadmin-admin, unix_sysadmin-bounces, unix_sysadmin-confirm, etc?

You actually do not need or want email accounts for any of these names.
The aliases take precedence and cause mail to these addresses to be
piped to the mailman wrapper. Thus, even though you have created an
email user "unix-sysadmin", no mail can actually be delivered to that
email account as the alias

unix_sysadmin:              "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman post
unix_sysadmin"

pipes mail to that address to the command "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman
post unix_sysadmin"

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Neilrey.Espino at FundSERV.com  Mon Jan 23 23:32:58 2006
From: Neilrey.Espino at FundSERV.com (Neilrey Espino)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 17:32:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email accounts for bounces, admin, confirm, etc
Message-ID: <CBDB236C3C437A43BF5D93D66E58929A028BB3DF@pegasus.fundserv.com>

Hi Elvis,

I had the same thoughts before.

Anyway, you don't need to create another email accounts,,,,  the aliases
is good enough...  just make sure you type "newaliases" after you edit
it.

Regards,

__________________________
Neilrey 
-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+neilrey=fundserv.com at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+neilrey=fundserv.com at python.org] On Behalf
Of Elvis Fernandes
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 2:25 PM
To: Mailman-Users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email accounts for bounces, admin, confirm, etc

Hello folks,


I have created a mail list unix_sysadmin, and this email account is
"approved"  by my IT team.
I use sendmail, and in my /etc/aliases, looks like this.

## unix_sysadmin mailing list
unix_sysadmin:              "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman post
unix_sysadmin"
unix_sysadmin-admin:        "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman admin
unix_sysadmin"
unix_sysadmin-bounces:      "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman bounces
unix_sysadmin"
unix_sysadmin-confirm:      "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman confirm
unix_sysadmin"
unix_sysadmin-join:         "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman join
unix_sysadmin"
unix_sysadmin-leave:        "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman leave
unix_sysadmin"
unix_sysadmin-owner:        "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman owner
unix_sysadmin"
unix_sysadmin-request:      "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman request
unix_sysadmin"
unix_sysadmin-subscribe:    "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe
unix_sysadmin"
unix_sysadmin-unsubscribe:  "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe
unix_sysadmin"

My question is regarding the unix_sysadmin-admin, unix_sysadmin-bounces,
unix_sysadmin-confirm, etc.
Do I need to get the IT team to create seperate email accounts for
unix_sysadmin-admin, unix_sysadmin-bounces, unix_sysadmin-confirm, etc?
I plan to create a bunch of other mail lists. So, does email accounts
need
to be created for each -admin, -bounces, -confirm.
Or, is there a way that all the email lists -admin, -bounces, -confirm
can
be consolidated into a single email account?

Could someone share their idea's.

Thanks
Elvis Fernandes
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
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com

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From manuel at arteryplanet.net  Mon Jan 23 23:35:37 2006
From: manuel at arteryplanet.net (ArteryPlanet.Net :: Manuel Kissoyan)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 19:35:37 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] merge archives
References: <PC1740200601230908050937c5dccc2e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <04f301c6206d$55fd1010$6401a8c0@sarna>

Thank you mark!








----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
To: "ArteryPlanet.Net :: Manuel Kissoyan" <manuel at arteryplanet.net>
Cc: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] merge archives


> >
>>What is houdl do with the archives? i mean there are list_name.mbox and 
>>the
>>list_name directory, the list_name directory have the previous months 
>>info,
>>i must copy all this directories before merge the mbox file?
>>
>>It have the databases and attachements directories also, i must overwrite
>>them withe backed up files? and the index.html and pipermail.pck files?
>
>
> When you run
>
> bin/arch --wipe list_name
>
> it reads the contents of archives/private/list_name.mbox/list_name.mbox
> and entirely rebuilds the structure in archives/private/list_name/.
> Thus, you only need to merge the list_name.mbox files into one
> archives/private/list_name.mbox/list_name.mbox that contains all the
> messages and run the above command.
>
> You don't need to do anything in the archives/private/list_name/
> directory because it will be entirely rebuilt.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
>
> 




From aptgetd at gmail.com  Mon Jan 23 23:49:09 2006
From: aptgetd at gmail.com (noc ops)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 14:49:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] domain change for mailman
Message-ID: <43D55D65.3020109@gmail.com>

hi,

i'm looking at changing domain name for an operation mailman server and
looking at the following mailman config files to reflect this change.

/etc/hosts and host related files
/etc/postfix (in my case)
/etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py
/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py

are these config files sufficient to reflect the change for mailman not
to break? did i miss anything?


any other pointers will be appreciated.


regards,
/virendra


From chris.a.adams at state.or.us  Tue Jan 24 00:08:48 2006
From: chris.a.adams at state.or.us (Christopher Adams)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 15:08:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce processing settings
Message-ID: <43D56200.30701@state.or.us>

I am curious as to what other mailman adminisrators or list owners use 
for bounce processing settings. I know that some lists require different 
settings, but we have been using the defaults for the most part on our 
500 lists. There seems to be lots more spam/bounce activity lately and I 
am wondering if I should consider changing the way bounce behaves. I 
could easily change all lists globally using withlist, but I thought 
that I would first see what others are doing.

For 'bounce detection sensitivity', I  am currently using:

5, 7, 3, 7


-- 


Christopher Adams



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan 24 00:21:00 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 15:21:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] domain change for mailman
In-Reply-To: <43D55D65.3020109@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601231521000031307296bf@msapiro>

noc ops wrote:
>
>i'm looking at changing domain name for an operation mailman server and
>looking at the following mailman config files to reflect this change.
>
>/etc/hosts and host related files
>/etc/postfix (in my case)
>/etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py
>/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
>
>are these config files sufficient to reflect the change for mailman not
>to break? did i miss anything?


It is unclear to me why you have two mm_cfg.py files. Something to do
with your 'package' I suppose. Does one import from the other?

Anyway, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp>,
and be sure to note the part about fix_url.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From elvisfern at gmail.com  Tue Jan 24 00:37:22 2006
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 15:37:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email accounts for bounces, admin, confirm, etc
In-Reply-To: <CBDB236C3C437A43BF5D93D66E58929A028BB3DF@pegasus.fundserv.com>
References: <CBDB236C3C437A43BF5D93D66E58929A028BB3DF@pegasus.fundserv.com>
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50601231537o6a50c6dew6ca764ada89afeca@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Neilrey, Mark,

Thanks for your replies.

In my case, the company mail server is being maintained by the IT team, and
the mailman server is being maintained by me.

So from what you tell me, the /etc/aliases need to be updated in the company
mail server, right? Currently, the /etc/aliases are updated only in the
mailman server.

When I email to unix_sysadmin-bounces, it comes back with permanent fatal
errors.
My theory for this error is: when I email unix_sysadmin-bounces, it goes to
the company email server. Since this email server does not have
unix_sysadmin-bounces email account, it just returns the email to the
sender. The company email server does not have a way to check with the
mailman server. Right?

Thanks
Elvis Fernandes


On 1/23/06, Neilrey Espino <Neilrey.Espino at fundserv.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Elvis,
>
> I had the same thoughts before.
>
> Anyway, you don't need to create another email accounts,,,,  the aliases
> is good enough...  just make sure you type "newaliases" after you edit
> it.
>
> Regards,
>
> __________________________
> Neilrey
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+neilrey=fundserv.com at python.org
> [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+neilrey=fundserv.com at python.org] On Behalf
> Of Elvis Fernandes
> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 2:25 PM
> To: Mailman-Users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email accounts for bounces, admin, confirm, etc
>
> Hello folks,
>
>
> I have created a mail list unix_sysadmin, and this email account is
> "approved"  by my IT team.
> I use sendmail, and in my /etc/aliases, looks like this.
>
> ## unix_sysadmin mailing list
> unix_sysadmin:              "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman post
> unix_sysadmin"
> unix_sysadmin-admin:        "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman admin
> unix_sysadmin"
> unix_sysadmin-bounces:      "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman bounces
> unix_sysadmin"
> unix_sysadmin-confirm:      "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman confirm
> unix_sysadmin"
> unix_sysadmin-join:         "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman join
> unix_sysadmin"
> unix_sysadmin-leave:        "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman leave
> unix_sysadmin"
> unix_sysadmin-owner:        "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman owner
> unix_sysadmin"
> unix_sysadmin-request:      "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman request
> unix_sysadmin"
> unix_sysadmin-subscribe:    "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe
> unix_sysadmin"
> unix_sysadmin-unsubscribe:  "|/disk1/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe
> unix_sysadmin"
>
> My question is regarding the unix_sysadmin-admin, unix_sysadmin-bounces,
> unix_sysadmin-confirm, etc.
> Do I need to get the IT team to create seperate email accounts for
> unix_sysadmin-admin, unix_sysadmin-bounces, unix_sysadmin-confirm, etc?
> I plan to create a bunch of other mail lists. So, does email accounts
> need
> to be created for each -admin, -bounces, -confirm.
> Or, is there a way that all the email lists -admin, -bounces, -confirm
> can
> be consolidated into a single email account?
>
> Could someone share their idea's.
>
> Thanks
> Elvis Fernandes
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/neilrey%40fundserv.
> com
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


From jdennis at redhat.com  Tue Jan 24 00:37:48 2006
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 18:37:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] domain change for mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601231521000031307296bf@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200601231521000031307296bf@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1138059468.18364.6.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Mon, 2006-01-23 at 15:21 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> noc ops wrote:
> >
> >i'm looking at changing domain name for an operation mailman server and
> >looking at the following mailman config files to reflect this change.
> >
> >/etc/hosts and host related files
> >/etc/postfix (in my case)
> >/etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py
> >/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
> >
> >are these config files sufficient to reflect the change for mailman not
> >to break? did i miss anything?
> 
> 
> It is unclear to me why you have two mm_cfg.py files. Something to do
> with your 'package' I suppose. Does one import from the other?

They are the same file. The mm_cfg.py in /etc/mailman is a sym link
to /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan 24 00:49:40 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 15:49:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce processing settings
In-Reply-To: <43D56200.30701@state.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC17402006012315494000939d0b8285@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:

>There seems to be lots more spam/bounce activity lately and I 
>am wondering if I should consider changing the way bounce behaves.


If you're thinking about 'unrecognized bounces' due to spam being sent
to the list-bounces address, your bounce processing settings won't
affect this.

Basically, spam gets involved in bounce processing in only a couple of
ways. When spam is sent directly to the list-bounces address, this
essentially always is an unrecognized bounce, because it doesn't look
like any known delivery status notification (DSN).

When spam is sent to the list address, and the 'post' is rejected or
held (say because the spammer is not a list member and the list
rejects or holds non-member posts), the reject/held notice often
bounces because the address that the notice is returned to is not
deliverable. This results in a legitimate bounce which may be
unrecognized because the DSN is not one that Mailman can parse, or it
is recognized as a bounce for a non-member address and ignored.

The list's bounce settings (other than
bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner) have no effect on any of this.

>I 
>could easily change all lists globally using withlist, but I thought 
>that I would first see what others are doing.
>
>For 'bounce detection sensitivity', I  am currently using:
>
>5, 7, 3, 7


These settings are the defaults because they are reasonable settings
for most lists. If you are sensitive about sending too many messages
to dead addresses (AOL, e.g. dings you for this), and you aren't too
concerned about disabling people for 'full mailboxes', etc. you could
lower the threshold.

Also, for lists with low activity - e.g. one or two posts per week, you
probably want to both lower the threshold, and extend the 'stale
after' time.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan 24 01:07:44 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 16:07:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email accounts for bounces, admin, confirm, etc
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc50601231537o6a50c6dew6ca764ada89afeca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060123160744057852d732ce@msapiro>

Elvis Fernandes wrote:
>
>In my case, the company mail server is being maintained by the IT team, and
>the mailman server is being maintained by me.
>
>So from what you tell me, the /etc/aliases need to be updated in the company
>mail server, right? Currently, the /etc/aliases are updated only in the
>mailman server.
>
>When I email to unix_sysadmin-bounces, it comes back with permanent fatal
>errors.
>My theory for this error is: when I email unix_sysadmin-bounces, it goes to
>the company email server. Since this email server does not have
>unix_sysadmin-bounces email account, it just returns the email to the
>sender. The company email server does not have a way to check with the
>mailman server. Right?

That complicates things considerably. What you need is for mail from
the outside world to any of the 10 addresses per list to be delivered
to your server. How this can be accomplished on the company mail
server depends on what MTA runs there. It could probably be done with
10 email accounts per list, each with it's own .forward or other
mechanism to redirect the mail to the Mailman server. It could
probably also be done with aliases on the company server, or possibly
programmatically.

If the company mail server, via NTFS or whatever, could see the list of
directories in Mailman's lists/ directory, it would be able to
progammatically determine whether any particular address is a valid
Mailman address and act accordingly (assuming it is progammable to
that degree), but the IT people probably wouldn't like that since you
could create a list with the same name as a company email user and
'intercept' that mail.

It seems the 'best' solution is to use a separate email domain for
Mailman, e.g. lists.company.com or mailman.company.com and publish an
MX DNS record to get that domain delivered to the Mailman server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From elvisfern at gmail.com  Tue Jan 24 04:29:18 2006
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 19:29:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email accounts for bounces, admin, confirm, etc
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060123160744057852d732ce@msapiro>
References: <5b1c0dc50601231537o6a50c6dew6ca764ada89afeca@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC174020060123160744057852d732ce@msapiro>
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50601231929r641ab2efub4170170734a4eba@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the suggestions.

I guess @list.company.com is a standard for mail lists, and that maybe the
way I need to go.

I appreciate all the responses for this mail ist. This place rocks!

Thanks
Elvis Fernandes


On 1/23/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Elvis Fernandes wrote:
> >
> >In my case, the company mail server is being maintained by the IT team,
> and
> >the mailman server is being maintained by me.
> >
> >So from what you tell me, the /etc/aliases need to be updated in the
> company
> >mail server, right? Currently, the /etc/aliases are updated only in the
> >mailman server.
> >
> >When I email to unix_sysadmin-bounces, it comes back with permanent fatal
> >errors.
> >My theory for this error is: when I email unix_sysadmin-bounces, it goes
> to
> >the company email server. Since this email server does not have
> >unix_sysadmin-bounces email account, it just returns the email to the
> >sender. The company email server does not have a way to check with the
> >mailman server. Right?
>
> That complicates things considerably. What you need is for mail from
> the outside world to any of the 10 addresses per list to be delivered
> to your server. How this can be accomplished on the company mail
> server depends on what MTA runs there. It could probably be done with
> 10 email accounts per list, each with it's own .forward or other
> mechanism to redirect the mail to the Mailman server. It could
> probably also be done with aliases on the company server, or possibly
> programmatically.
>
> If the company mail server, via NTFS or whatever, could see the list of
> directories in Mailman's lists/ directory, it would be able to
> progammatically determine whether any particular address is a valid
> Mailman address and act accordingly (assuming it is progammable to
> that degree), but the IT people probably wouldn't like that since you
> could create a list with the same name as a company email user and
> 'intercept' that mail.
>
> It seems the 'best' solution is to use a separate email domain for
> Mailman, e.g. lists.company.com or mailman.company.com and publish an
> MX DNS record to get that domain delivered to the Mailman server.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From koch at cs.utk.edu  Tue Jan 24 04:45:55 2006
From: koch at cs.utk.edu (Scott Michael Koch)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 22:45:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] external archiver
Message-ID: <20060124034555.GX8194@duff.cs.utk.edu>

Mailman-users,

Is it possible to set the {PUBLIC,PRIVATE}_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER variable on
a per-list basis?

The reason I ask this is because a particular list owner is wanting to
disable all email address(even the anti-spam mailman version) in the
public list archives for their particular public lists. Is there a clean
mailman style way of doing this on a per list basis? 

Someone recomended using hypermail, but I do not want to have to use this 
on all the lists at my site. I would rather not use an external archiver 
if at all possible.

Has anyone found any other/better methods for hiding email addresses in
archives on a per-list basis?

Thanks
-Scott

-- 
==============================================
Scott Koch                                    
CS Undergraduate & UTKCS System Administrator 
865-974-3840 / koch at cs.utk.edu                
http://www.cs.utk.edu/~koch                     
==============================================


From jjloose at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Jan 24 12:24:44 2006
From: jjloose at yahoo.co.uk (Jon Loose)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 11:24:44 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail Forwarding Loop / List issue
Message-ID: <20060124112444.45901.qmail@web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

I have set up a test list on a new server with a few
subscribers.  All seems to be working well, however
when I check the "Administrative Requests" on the
mailing list, I am receiving the following for a range
of messages:

---Quote---
Return-Path: <>
X-Original-To: thetestlist at loosehome.info
Delivered-To: thetestlist at loosehome.info
Received: by mail.loosehome.info (Postfix)
        id 44536813A1; Mon, 23 Jan 2006 18:44:26 +0000
(GMT)
Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 18:44:26 +0000 (GMT)
From: MAILER-DAEMON at loosehome.info (Mail Delivery
System)
Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
To: thetestlist at loosehome.info
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report;
report-type=delivery-status;
       
boundary="36C13813C2.1138041866/mail.loosehome.info"
Message-Id:
<20060123184426.44536813A1 at mail.loosehome.info>
This is the Postfix program at host
mail.loosehome.info.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message
could not be
be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached
below.

For further assistance, please send mail to
<postmaster>

If you do so, please include this problem report. You
can
delete your own text from the attached returned
message.

                        The Postfix program

<thetestlist at loosehome.info>: mail forwarding loop for
    thetestlist at loosehome.info
---EndQuote---

These messages appear in the administrator section
because mailer-daemon is not a member of the list, and
so the attempt to access the list by the mailer-daemon
is flagged up for admin attention.

So, question to the helpful: How can I avoid this mail
forwarding loop?

Please note that the error occurs on a range of
addresses, including an account on the local machine. 
I don't think there are any genuine forwarding loops
going on... why should there be?

On a different topic, I originally signed up to this
using my own server (on a fixed, domestic IP).  Mails
were thrown out ostensibly because of the IP address. 
Is this normal practise?

Thanks in advance for any help,

Jon


	
	
		
___________________________________________________________ 
Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com


From temp2 at cs.ucc.ie  Tue Jan 24 12:20:14 2006
From: temp2 at cs.ucc.ie (David O'Byrne)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 11:20:14 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to notify a poster when moderated
	message gets approved ?
Message-ID: <20060124112011.GA20408@cs.ucc.ie>

Dear mailman users,
We use mailman and have been doing so for a few years.
It works very well in our academic department within a university
environment.

We have had one recent issue.
When a staff member posts to a moderated list and the posting gets held for
approval the staff member gets notified.

However they receive no notification when the message finally gets approved
by the list moderator.

Is there any way in mailman (short of resorting to writing
python code) of notifying the poster when approving the message ?

many thanks 
David


----------------------------------------------------
David O'Byrne, Computer Science, UCC, Cork, Ireland.


From chris.a.adams at state.or.us  Tue Jan 24 18:41:44 2006
From: chris.a.adams at state.or.us (Christopher Adams)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 09:41:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Processing Settings
Message-ID: <43D666D8.9070500@state.or.us>

Mark,

Thank you for the reply. I think I understand it now. So, alot of the 
traffic related to bounces is being generated by spammers sending to the 
list-bounces addresses. I will also adjust the bounce processing for the 
little-used lists to cut down a bit on the interaction with actual 
subscribers.

Recently, I made a system-wide change so that all messages from 
non-members are rejected and a message sent to them. The reason I did 
this was because I didn't see a way to change the message sent to list 
owners when a non-member message was discarded. In a previous post, you 
mentioned that the newest version of Mailman allows that modification.

So, my question is- using my current settings, do rejection messages to 
non-members generate any bounce traffic? The logs show a message sent to 
a bogus user, but it seems to end there - no mailman log activity.


Christopher Adams wrote:

 >There seems to be lots more spam/bounce activity lately and I
 >am wondering if I should consider changing the way bounce behaves.


If you're thinking about 'unrecognized bounces' due to spam being sent
to the list-bounces address, your bounce processing settings won't
affect this.

Basically, spam gets involved in bounce processing in only a couple of
ways. When spam is sent directly to the list-bounces address, this
essentially always is an unrecognized bounce, because it doesn't look
like any known delivery status notification (DSN).

When spam is sent to the list address, and the 'post' is rejected or
held (say because the spammer is not a list member and the list
rejects or holds non-member posts), the reject/held notice often
bounces because the address that the notice is returned to is not
deliverable. This results in a legitimate bounce which may be
unrecognized because the DSN is not one that Mailman can parse, or it
is recognized as a bounce for a non-member address and ignored.

The list's bounce settings (other than
bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner) have no effect on any of this.

 >I
 >could easily change all lists globally using withlist, but I thought
 >that I would first see what others are doing.
 >
 >For 'bounce detection sensitivity', I  am currently using:
 >
 >5, 7, 3, 7


These settings are the defaults because they are reasonable settings
for most lists. If you are sensitive about sending too many messages
to dead addresses (AOL, e.g. dings you for this), and you aren't too
concerned about disabling people for 'full mailboxes', etc. you could
lower the threshold.

Also, for lists with low activity - e.g. one or two posts per week, you
probably want to both lower the threshold, and extend the 'stale
after' time.
-- 


Christopher Adams
Library Systems Analyst
Oregon State Library
503-378-4243 258
chris.a.adams at state.or.us



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan 24 19:44:47 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 10:44:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Processing Settings
In-Reply-To: <43D666D8.9070500@state.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC17402006012410444705151fd43fb2@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:
>
>So, my question is- using my current settings, do rejection messages to 
>non-members generate any bounce traffic? The logs show a message sent to 
>a bogus user, but it seems to end there - no mailman log activity.

The reject message itself may bounce if the non-member address is
undeliverable. This bounce is normally unnoticed because the
undeliverable address is normally parsed from the bounce message and
ignored since it is a non-member. In those cases where the bounce
format is unrecognized, the bounce will be sent to the owner if
bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner is true.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan 24 19:58:07 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 10:58:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a way to notify a poster when
	moderatedmessage gets approved ?
In-Reply-To: <20060124112011.GA20408@cs.ucc.ie>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601241058070953f702fac0@msapiro>

David O'Byrne wrote:
>
>We have had one recent issue.
>When a staff member posts to a moderated list and the posting gets held for
>approval the staff member gets notified.
>
>However they receive no notification when the message finally gets approved
>by the list moderator.
>
>Is there any way in mailman (short of resorting to writing
>python code) of notifying the poster when approving the message ?


Not other than the moderator manually sending an email to the poster.

However, if the post is held because it is from a moderated member, and
the member's delivery is enabled, and the member has not elected to
not receive his/her own posts, the member (poster) will receive a copy
of the post from the list which should be a clue.

I suppose the moderator could also "Forward messages (individually)
to:" the poster while approving the message, but this would perhaps be
ambiguious unless the staff knew that when they receive a "Forward of
moderated message" it means the post is accepted, but this too would
be a manual process subject to error.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan 24 20:03:45 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 11:03:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] external archiver
In-Reply-To: <20060124034555.GX8194@duff.cs.utk.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601241103450468f26da5c1@msapiro>

Scott Michael Koch wrote:
>
>Is it possible to set the {PUBLIC,PRIVATE}_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER variable on
>a per-list basis?


Not without modifying code.


>Has anyone found any other/better methods for hiding email addresses in
>archives on a per-list basis?


Here again, you could modify the Pipermail archiver to obscure the
addresses differently, but this would involve patching the code.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan 24 20:29:22 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 11:29:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail Forwarding Loop / List issue
In-Reply-To: <20060124112444.45901.qmail@web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006012411292204063072984c@msapiro>

Jon Loose wrote:

>I have set up a test list on a new server with a few
>subscribers.  All seems to be working well, however
>when I check the "Administrative Requests" on the
>mailing list, I am receiving the following for a range
>of messages:
>
>---Quote---
<snip>
>                        The Postfix program
>
><thetestlist at loosehome.info>: mail forwarding loop for
>    thetestlist at loosehome.info
>---EndQuote---


What messages is Postfix complaining about? It is unclear to me what is
going on because under normal circumstances, your local MTA should
never return a DSN to the list. If the problem message is a post, the
DSN should go to the poster, and if it is a message from Mailman, the
DSN should go to some LIST-bounces address.


>
>These messages appear in the administrator section
>because mailer-daemon is not a member of the list, and
>so the attempt to access the list by the mailer-daemon
>is flagged up for admin attention.


If the list is otherwise working, you could add
MAILER-DAEMON at loosehome.info to the list's discard_these_nonmembers
(just kidding).


>So, question to the helpful: How can I avoid this mail
>forwarding loop?
>
>Please note that the error occurs on a range of
>addresses, including an account on the local machine. 
>I don't think there are any genuine forwarding loops
>going on... why should there be?


Well, apparently due to aliases (alias_maps, alias_database,
virtual_alias_maps, ???) or something, Postfix thinks there are.

This seems like a Postfix configuration issue. You might have more
success posting this to a Postfix list.


>On a different topic, I originally signed up to this
>using my own server (on a fixed, domestic IP).  Mails
>were thrown out ostensibly because of the IP address. 
>Is this normal practise?


If by 'this' you mean mailman-users at python.org, I don't think so. I
have a 'home', fixed IP, and I have no problem with python.org lists.
Did you receive reject notices for the mail? If so, from where and
what did they say?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jfranklin at project-wombat.org  Wed Jan 25 07:05:09 2006
From: jfranklin at project-wombat.org (John Franklin)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 00:05:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about List Info Page HTML
Message-ID: <53D4EEA3-9DFD-41FE-8059-08A867553506@project-wombat.org>

Is there a full list of the custom <MM-xxxx> tags which can be used  
in list info page HTML? I've been looking around, and I can't find  
one anywhere.

-John Franklin


From Hannu.Niemi at kuntaliitto.fi  Wed Jan 25 09:13:22 2006
From: Hannu.Niemi at kuntaliitto.fi (Niemi Hannu)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:13:22 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation problems
Message-ID: <C262B8ECE515D348BF758C93F12F6F760286793C@KLMAIL.ad.kuntaliitto.fi>

Hello all

I made a new list and it seems to work OK, except that all the
confirmation strings are invalid.

Even if I answer at once, it says it's bad confirmation string and only
suggests it has been expired. I have also checked that the time is all
right on both ends. Any hints?

I also added another virtual host to mailman, and this list uses it,
could this cause this somehow?

Best regards

Hannu


From dan at thefoldmusic.com  Wed Jan 25 16:21:27 2006
From: dan at thefoldmusic.com (dan at thefoldmusic.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 09:21:27 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stagger script?
Message-ID: <005001c621c3$0606b500$0500a8c0@dellwv60slk8ja>

I was told by my hosting company that I need to pick a mailing list manager for my 14,000+ subscriber e-mail list that would stagger the sending of the email to something like 300 e-mails per hour to lower the impact on the server. I already have Mailman installed, and the entire list currently sits there. Is there any way to do this with Mailman? 

I hope someone can help!

Daniel/The Fold

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan 25 16:29:45 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 07:29:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about List Info Page HTML
In-Reply-To: <53D4EEA3-9DFD-41FE-8059-08A867553506@project-wombat.org>
Message-ID: <PC174020060125072945035929dc3314@msapiro>

John Franklin wrote:

>Is there a full list of the custom <MM-xxxx> tags which can be used  
>in list info page HTML? I've been looking around, and I can't find  
>one anywhere.


They're not exactly documented, but see Mailman/HTMLFormatter.py and
the various Cgi scripts, in this case Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan 25 16:37:12 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 07:37:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation problems
In-Reply-To: <C262B8ECE515D348BF758C93F12F6F760286793C@KLMAIL.ad.kuntaliitto.fi>
Message-ID: <PC174020060125073712060929dc33ed@msapiro>

Niemi Hannu wrote:
>
>I made a new list and it seems to work OK, except that all the
>confirmation strings are invalid.
>
>Even if I answer at once, it says it's bad confirmation string and only
>suggests it has been expired. I have also checked that the time is all
>right on both ends. Any hints?


Have you overridden PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE in mm_cfg.py?

How are you confirming? Web or email? Does it fail both ways? What do
the actual confirm strings look like?

>I also added another virtual host to mailman, and this list uses it,
>could this cause this somehow?

Is it only this list that fails? It is not likely a virtual host
problem as host really isn't involved in processing confirmations.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jwblist at loricamail.com  Wed Jan 25 16:40:24 2006
From: jwblist at loricamail.com (John W. Baxter)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 07:40:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stagger script?
In-Reply-To: <005001c621c3$0606b500$0500a8c0@dellwv60slk8ja>
Message-ID: <BFFCDBE8.A9B4%jwblist@loricamail.com>

On 1/25/06 7:21 AM, "dan at thefoldmusic.com" <dan at thefoldmusic.com> wrote:

> I was told by my hosting company that I need to pick a mailing list manager
> for my 14,000+ subscriber e-mail list that would stagger the sending of the
> email to something like 300 e-mails per hour to lower the impact on the
> server. I already have Mailman installed, and the entire list currently sits
> there. Is there any way to do this with Mailman?

If you expect more than four messages per week to be sent to the list, then
you can't do this with any mailing list manager.  (If I can still do
arithmetic, it would take about 44 hours to send 14,000 messages at 300 per
hour.)

I think you need a different hosting company.

Aside from that little detail, this general question has come up several
times recently, and as far as I know the answer remains "no".

  --John




From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jan 25 16:55:13 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 07:55:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stagger script?
In-Reply-To: <005001c621c3$0606b500$0500a8c0@dellwv60slk8ja>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601250755130296883983b5@msapiro>

Daniel/The Fold wrote:

>I was told by my hosting company that I need to pick a mailing list manager for my 14,000+ subscriber e-mail list that would stagger the sending of the email to something like 300 e-mails per hour to lower the impact on the server. I already have Mailman installed, and the entire list currently sits there. Is there any way to do this with Mailman? 

The short answer is no. You can set SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 300 in mm_cfg.py
(default is 500) and modify the code in SMTPDirect.py to put in a
timer and not send more that one chunk an hour, but I would definitely
not recommend that as it would have all kinds of unintended
consequences.

Have you considered that at 300 per hour, it takes 2 days to deliver
14,000+ messages. If there are posts more often than 1 every 2 to 3
days, you'll get hopelessly backlogged.

Where is this list hosted? Is it on your server or at the hosting
company. If it's your box and you have your own outgoing MTA, this
shouldn't be an issue for the hosting company other than the bandwidth
on your connection if they provide that.

If the list (Mailman) is hosted at the hosting company, isn't this
their problem? Of course perhaps they are solving that by telling you
you can't do that, in which case, it may be time to find a new host.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jwblist at loricamail.com  Wed Jan 25 17:08:24 2006
From: jwblist at loricamail.com (John W. Baxter)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:08:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stagger script?
In-Reply-To: <BFFCDBE8.A9B4%jwblist@loricamail.com>
Message-ID: <BFFCE278.A9B8%jwblist@loricamail.com>

On 1/25/06 7:40 AM, "John W. Baxter" <jwblist at loricamail.com> wrote:

> On 1/25/06 7:21 AM, "dan at thefoldmusic.com" <dan at thefoldmusic.com> wrote:
> 
>> I was told by my hosting company that I need to pick a mailing list manager
>> for my 14,000+ subscriber e-mail list that would stagger the sending of the
>> email to something like 300 e-mails per hour to lower the impact on the
>> server. I already have Mailman installed, and the entire list currently sits
>> there. Is there any way to do this with Mailman?
> 
> If you expect more than four messages per week to be sent to the list, then
> you can't do this with any mailing list manager.  (If I can still do
> arithmetic, it would take about 44 hours to send 14,000 messages at 300 per
> hour.)
> 
> I think you need a different hosting company.
> 
> Aside from that little detail, this general question has come up several
> times recently, and as far as I know the answer remains "no".
> 

Oops.  That was a little too strong, if the hosting company means 300
messages, not 300 recipients.  You would need to NOT turn on
personalization, or VERP, and you would probably need to turn off the
monthly password reminders.

Given that, you would still run into the answer that no, Mailman doesn't
throttle.  But some other list management software might work.  Go to the
Mailman FAQ (link in the footer to this message) and search for
   throttle
for more information.

Rather than a whole new hosting company, you may want to look for a separate
host for your list, one that specializes in lists.  You would then need list
mailing addresses like list.example.com rather than example.com, so the
world can direct the mail properly, and the same for the web interface.
Such a hosting company might prefer software other than Mailman, or might
prefer Mailman.

  --John




From chris at westnet.com  Wed Jan 25 17:09:21 2006
From: chris at westnet.com (Christopher X. Candreva)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:09:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stagger script?
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601250755130296883983b5@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200601250755130296883983b5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0601251105500.21810@westnet.com>

On Wed, 25 Jan 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Daniel/The Fold wrote:
 
> >I was told by my hosting company that I need to pick a mailing list 
> >manager for my 14,000+ subscriber e-mail list that would stagger the 
> >sending of the email to something like 300 e-mails per hour to lower the 

> Where is this list hosted? Is it on your server or at the hosting
> company. If it's your box and you have your own outgoing MTA, this
> shouldn't be an issue for the hosting company other than the bandwidth
> on your connection if they provide that.

Dan, do you know how long it is taking  to send to this list now ? Might it 
make a difference if you did this at night / off-hours ?

Mark & John are right about the time, unless this is a once a week type of 
thing sending at that rate is going to get backlogged.

If this is the site for the band that on the domain you mailed from I'm 
guessing they/you are on a budget. If you get to the looking for a new host 
stage contact me off list, I'll see what I can do.


==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/


From phillipsmarkw at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 25 17:37:22 2006
From: phillipsmarkw at yahoo.com (Mark Phillips)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:37:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions Regarding Command Line Commands
Message-ID: <20060125163722.46593.qmail@web37812.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Please excuse this (potential) double post. My ISP is
blocked from posting to this list, so I am trying
again from a yahoo account. Sometimes I can get
through from my ISP, other times not. So I am trying
again! :(

I have a mysql database with names and email addresses
for our little league. 
I wrote a python scrip to pull the names and email
addresses from our 
database and put them into groups for each team in
each division. I want to 
bulk load these email addresses into mailman and
create mailing lists for 
each team in each division. I know I can do this from
the web interface, but 
I would rather do it from my python script (we have
over 90 teams!). 

I have seen the documentation on what the command line
commands are, but I am not sure how to issue those
commands from a python script.

Thank for any help you can provide!

-- 
Mark Phillips
VP Softball
Arcadia Little League
www.ArcadiaLittleLeague.org
mark at phillipsoasis.com
602 524-0376

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From dan at thefoldmusic.com  Wed Jan 25 17:55:40 2006
From: dan at thefoldmusic.com (dan at thefoldmusic.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 10:55:40 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stagger script?
References: <BFFCE278.A9B8%jwblist@loricamail.com>
Message-ID: <00e601c621d0$6daac4a0$0500a8c0@dellwv60slk8ja>

<<That was a little too strong, if the hosting company means 300
> messages, not 300 recipients.  You would need to NOT turn on
> personalization, or VERP, and you would probably need to turn off the
> monthly password reminders. >>

Sorry about that, I should clarify that I definitely meant 300 recipients, 
not messages. I only plan on sending 3-4 messages a month with this list.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John W. Baxter" <jwblist at loricamail.com>
To: "Mailman Users" <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stagger script?


> On 1/25/06 7:40 AM, "John W. Baxter" <jwblist at loricamail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 1/25/06 7:21 AM, "dan at thefoldmusic.com" <dan at thefoldmusic.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I was told by my hosting company that I need to pick a mailing list 
>>> manager
>>> for my 14,000+ subscriber e-mail list that would stagger the sending of 
>>> the
>>> email to something like 300 e-mails per hour to lower the impact on the
>>> server. I already have Mailman installed, and the entire list currently 
>>> sits
>>> there. Is there any way to do this with Mailman?
>>
>> If you expect more than four messages per week to be sent to the list, 
>> then
>> you can't do this with any mailing list manager.  (If I can still do
>> arithmetic, it would take about 44 hours to send 14,000 messages at 300 
>> per
>> hour.)
>>
>> I think you need a different hosting company.
>>
>> Aside from that little detail, this general question has come up several
>> times recently, and as far as I know the answer remains "no".
>>
>
> Oops.  That was a little too strong, if the hosting company means 300
> messages, not 300 recipients.  You would need to NOT turn on
> personalization, or VERP, and you would probably need to turn off the
> monthly password reminders.
>
> Given that, you would still run into the answer that no, Mailman doesn't
> throttle.  But some other list management software might work.  Go to the
> Mailman FAQ (link in the footer to this message) and search for
>   throttle
> for more information.
>
> Rather than a whole new hosting company, you may want to look for a 
> separate
> host for your list, one that specializes in lists.  You would then need 
> list
> mailing addresses like list.example.com rather than example.com, so the
> world can direct the mail properly, and the same for the web interface.
> Such a hosting company might prefer software other than Mailman, or might
> prefer Mailman.
>
>  --John
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dan%40thefoldmusic.com
>
> Security Policy: 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>
> 



From dan at thefoldmusic.com  Wed Jan 25 18:04:29 2006
From: dan at thefoldmusic.com (dan at thefoldmusic.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 11:04:29 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stagger script?
References: <PC1740200601250755130296883983b5@msapiro>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0601251105500.21810@westnet.com>
Message-ID: <012001c621d1$913fd940$0500a8c0@dellwv60slk8ja>

> On Wed, 25 Jan 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Dan, do you know how long it is taking  to send to this list now ? Might 
> it
> make a difference if you did this at night / off-hours ?

Yes it is for thefoldmusic.com. To my knowledge, most recipients NEVER even 
receive the e-mails I send out. Only a few of the early letter of the 
alphabet receive them. I've tried sending on off hours, that worked better 
with my old server (pair.com), but for budget purposes I have switched to 
bluehost.com which is where the mailman list currently resides.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christopher X. Candreva" <chris at westnet.com>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stagger script?


> On Wed, 25 Jan 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Daniel/The Fold wrote:
>
>> >I was told by my hosting company that I need to pick a mailing list
>> >manager for my 14,000+ subscriber e-mail list that would stagger the
>> >sending of the email to something like 300 e-mails per hour to lower the
>
>> Where is this list hosted? Is it on your server or at the hosting
>> company. If it's your box and you have your own outgoing MTA, this
>> shouldn't be an issue for the hosting company other than the bandwidth
>> on your connection if they provide that.
>
> Dan, do you know how long it is taking  to send to this list now ? Might 
> it
> make a difference if you did this at night / off-hours ?
>
> Mark & John are right about the time, unless this is a once a week type of
> thing sending at that rate is going to get backlogged.
>
> If this is the site for the band that on the domain you mailed from I'm
> guessing they/you are on a budget. If you get to the looking for a new 
> host
> stage contact me off list, I'll see what I can do.
>
>
> ==========================================================
> Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816
> WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
> http://www.westnet.com/
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dan%40thefoldmusic.com
>
> Security Policy: 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>
> 



From cr at att.biz  Wed Jan 25 18:32:46 2006
From: cr at att.biz (Chad Rebuck)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 12:32:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] move from version 2.0.11 to 2.1.5
Message-ID: <001c01c621d5$5b1f81e0$7600a8c0@desktop>

I've installed a new server running Fedora 4.  I can create a new list, but 
I have not determined why mailman is not seeing the users from my 2.0.11 
list.  I copied the lists/ and archives/ dir from the old server to the new 
one.  I have read through the INSTALL and UPGRADE docs following all the 
steps -- I think.

If more details are needed please let me know.

Thanks, Chad 



From jdennis at redhat.com  Wed Jan 25 19:29:14 2006
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 13:29:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] move from version 2.0.11 to 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <001c01c621d5$5b1f81e0$7600a8c0@desktop>
References: <001c01c621d5$5b1f81e0$7600a8c0@desktop>
Message-ID: <1138213754.3320.7.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Wed, 2006-01-25 at 12:32 -0500, Chad Rebuck wrote:
> I've installed a new server running Fedora 4.  I can create a new list, but 
> I have not determined why mailman is not seeing the users from my 2.0.11 
> list.  I copied the lists/ and archives/ dir from the old server to the new 
> one.  I have read through the INSTALL and UPGRADE docs following all the 
> steps -- I think.
> 
> If more details are needed please let me know.

How did you install mailman? Was it from scratch or did you use our RPM?
If you used the RPM then you should look
at /usr/share/doc/mailman-*/INSTALL.REDHAT for documentation on the
directory structure, you may not have copied the old list data into the
locations currently used.
--
John Dennis
Red Hat Software



From cr at att.biz  Wed Jan 25 20:22:58 2006
From: cr at att.biz (Chad Rebuck)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 14:22:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] move from version 2.0.11 to 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <1138213754.3320.7.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
References: <001c01c621d5$5b1f81e0$7600a8c0@desktop>
	<1138213754.3320.7.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <6c3e3c670601251122t4e951ac5p1587ed6867983389@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks John

Mailman was installed via RPM.  I actually did have the lists/ and
archives/ in the incorrect folder but I have copied them over to
/var/lib/mailman now.

I ran thse commands after moving the files.  However, I still don't
see any members listed.  Certainly I am missing something else or
using these commands incorrectly.

/usr/lib/mailman/bin/update -f
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist -l -r fix_url a2-16v-list

Here is the output

[root at localhost mailman]# bin/withlist -l -r fix_url a2-16v-list
Importing fix_url...
Running fix_url.fix_url()...
Loading list a2-16v-list (locked)
Saving list
Finalizing
[root at localhost mailman]# bin/list_members a2-16v-list
[root at localhost mailman]# pwd
/usr/lib/mailman
[root at localhost mailman]# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/update
No updates are necessary.
[root at localhost mailman]# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/update  -f
Upgrading from version 0x20105f0 to 0x20105f0
getting rid of old source files
Updating mailing list: a2-16v-list
Updating the held requests database.
- updating old private mbox file
    looks like you have a really recent CVS installation...
    you're either one brave soul, or you already ran me
- updating old public mbox file
Fixing language templates: a2-16v-list

Updating mailing list: mailman
Updating the held requests database.
- updating old private mbox file
    looks like you have a really recent CVS installation...
    you're either one brave soul, or you already ran me
- updating old public mbox file
    looks like you have a really recent CVS installation...
    you're either one brave soul, or you already ran me
Fixing language templates: mailman

Updating Usenet watermarks
- nothing to update here
Nothing to do.
updating old qfiles

On 1/25/06, John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 2006-01-25 at 12:32 -0500, Chad Rebuck wrote:
> > I've installed a new server running Fedora 4.  I can create a new list, but
> > I have not determined why mailman is not seeing the users from my 2.0.11
> > list.  I copied the lists/ and archives/ dir from the old server to the new
> > one.  I have read through the INSTALL and UPGRADE docs following all the
> > steps -- I think.
> >
> > If more details are needed please let me know.
>
> How did you install mailman? Was it from scratch or did you use our RPM?
> If you used the RPM then you should look
> at /usr/share/doc/mailman-*/INSTALL.REDHAT for documentation on the
> directory structure, you may not have copied the old list data into the
> locations currently used.
> --
> John Dennis
> Red Hat Software
>
>


From jasper-mmu at pointless.net  Wed Jan 25 20:16:48 2006
From: jasper-mmu at pointless.net (jasper-mmu at pointless.net)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 19:16:48 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pgp key E099F769?
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.63.0601251915590.817@wryylpng.ubzr.cbvagyrff.arg>


Hi,

2.1.7 is signed by key-id E099F769, but i can't find that key anywhere!

can someone put it on the public keyservers pls?

-- 
[http://pointless.net/]                                   [0x2ECA0975]


From lists05 at equinephotoart.com  Wed Jan 25 21:42:12 2006
From: lists05 at equinephotoart.com (JC Dill)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 12:42:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stagger script?
In-Reply-To: <012001c621d1$913fd940$0500a8c0@dellwv60slk8ja>
References: <PC1740200601250755130296883983b5@msapiro>	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0601251105500.21810@westnet.com>
	<012001c621d1$913fd940$0500a8c0@dellwv60slk8ja>
Message-ID: <43D7E2A4.6010306@equinephotoart.com>

dan at thefoldmusic.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Jan 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Dan, do you know how long it is taking  to send to this list now ? Might 
>> it
>> make a difference if you did this at night / off-hours ?
> 
> Yes it is for thefoldmusic.com. To my knowledge, most recipients NEVER even 
> receive the e-mails I send out. Only a few of the early letter of the 
> alphabet receive them. I've tried sending on off hours, that worked better 
> with my old server (pair.com), but for budget purposes I have switched to 
> bluehost.com which is where the mailman list currently resides.

Good; fast; cheap:  Pick any two.  You can't have all 3.

You left pair.com (good, fast, fairly cheap but not dirt cheap) because 
you wanted an even cheaper hosting solution.  Well, now you know what 
happens when you go with a cheaper host - they aren't any good (most of 
your messages never get delivered) and they certainly aren't fast 
(limiting you to 300 messages per hour!).  The only real solution is to 
find a better host.  I strongly suggest you take Chris up on the offer 
for a better host solution.

jc



From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Wed Jan 25 21:42:55 2006
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 05:42:55 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pgp key E099F769?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.63.0601251915590.817@wryylpng.ubzr.cbvagyrff.arg>
References: <Pine.NEB.4.63.0601251915590.817@wryylpng.ubzr.cbvagyrff.arg>
Message-ID: <43D7E2CF.3000306@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

jasper-mmu at pointless.net wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> 2.1.7 is signed by key-id E099F769, but i can't find that key anywhere!
> 
> can someone put it on the public keyservers pls?
> 

Sorry for the inconvenience.  Now it can be found at:
http://keyserver.veridis.com:11371/search?q=0xE099F769

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/


From werner_schalk at gmx.de  Wed Jan 25 23:13:57 2006
From: werner_schalk at gmx.de (Werner Schalk)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 22:13:57 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman, Postfix and MySQL-based virtual domains
Message-ID: <200601252213.57076.werner_schalk@gmx.de>

Hi,

first of all I have to say that I am a complete novice to both Mailman and 
Postfix. However my MySQL-based Postfix setup works just fine (on Gentoo) but 
I have a problem with getting Mailman to work. Beside virtual domains and 
users that work just fine, I created some mailing lists. But when I try to 
send a mail to one of them I get the following error message in my log file:

NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from unknown[62.8.A.B]: 550 <testlist at domain.tld>: 
Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual mailbox table; 
from=<me at domain.tld> to=<testlist at domain.tld> proto=ESMTP 
helo=<mysystem.network.localnet>
Jan 25 22:52:54 myserver postfix/smtpd[6906]: > unknown[62.8.A.B]: 550 
<testlist at domain.tld>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual 
mailbox table

My Postfix config file is as follows (digest):

owner_request_special = no
recipient_delimiter = +

virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf, 
hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
virtual_gid_maps = static:211
virtual_mailbox_base = /home/virtmail
virtual_mailbox_domains = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_domains_maps.cf
virtual_mailbox_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_mailbox_maps.cf
virtual_transport = virtual
virtual_uid_maps = static:211

So according to http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html and 
what I have found on the web, Postfix should consult 
both /etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf 
and /usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman in order to handle the mail (the 
*.db file does exist in /usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman.db). 

However as one can see above, Postfix is unable to find the user in the 
virtual mailbox table. Does somebody have a similar setup and is able to give 
me some information or hints on how to solve this problem? I searched the web 
already but I didn't find anything useful so far. Any ideas?

Thanks a lot.

Best regards,
Werner.



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 26 00:23:27 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 18:23:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] denying mbox AND txt archives
Message-ID: <43D8086F.1060800@yahoo.com>

Hi,

Is there a way to "privatize" archive txt files?  I know that 
PUBLIC_MBOX prevents the mbox URL from appearing in thread.html, 
date.html, etc., and I can also block *.mbox at the server.  HOWEVER, 
blocking *.txt at the server isn't an option for me.  Is there a way to 
have the archiver chmod archive .txt and .mbox files?

Tia,

-Jim P.


From carbonnb at gmail.com  Thu Jan 26 03:13:46 2006
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:13:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] i18n Question
Message-ID: <e04a6c920601251813s76036c8fq@mail.gmail.com>

I have created a patch for MM 2.1.7 that will allow MM to have your
main site's headers/footers so that everything across the site has a
consistant look. This is an extension of #1160353
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1160353&group_id=103&atid=300103

You can see the patch in use at http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo

I will be posting to sourceforge soon, but I'd like to know what it
would take to make sure that it works for the languages that come
preinstalled with MM. I've modified a lot of the "hard coded" text in
the py files and most of the html files in the templates/en directory.

What files, besides the html files in the templates/lang/ directories
will I need to modify? Just the .po file and follow the instructions
in the README-I18.en file in the source root?

Would this question be more appropriate on the 18n or developers list?

Thanks,
--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 26 03:15:14 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:15:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] denying mbox AND txt archives
In-Reply-To: <43D8086F.1060800@yahoo.com>
References: <43D8086F.1060800@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43D830B2.6030900@yahoo.com>

OK, I solved my own problem with....

this bit of Apache config:
     RedirectMatch permanent /mailman/private/.*/.*\.txt /mailman/
     RedirectMatch permanent /mailman/private/.*/.*\.mbox /mailman/
     RedirectMatch permanent /archives/.*/.*\.txt /archives/
     RedirectMatch permanent /archives/.*/.*\.mbox /archives/

this change to HyperArch.py:

    *** Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py       Wed Jan 25 18:04:16 2006
    --- Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py.orig  Wed Jan 25 18:04:13 2006
    ***************
    *** 817,824 ****
              else:
                  # there's no archive file at all... hmmm.
                  textlink = ''
    -
    -         textlink = ''
              return quick_maketext(
                  'archtocentry.html',
                  {'archive': arch,
    --- 817,822 ----

and minor changes to template/*/archliststart.html to remove language 
specific references to "Downloadable version".

I honestly think that Mailman should support properly chmod'ing 
private/*/*.mbox and private/*/*.txt files when the site sets 
PUBLIC_MBOX to "No".

BTW, this was for MM 2.1.7

-Jim P.

Jim Popovitch wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Is there a way to "privatize" archive txt files?  I know that 
> PUBLIC_MBOX prevents the mbox URL from appearing in thread.html, 
> date.html, etc., and I can also block *.mbox at the server.  HOWEVER, 
> blocking *.txt at the server isn't an option for me.  Is there a way to 
> have the archiver chmod archive .txt and .mbox files?
> 
> Tia,
> 
> -Jim P.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jimpop%40yahoo.com
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jan 26 03:18:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 18:18:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions Regarding Command Line Commands
In-Reply-To: <20060125163722.46593.qmail@web37812.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601251818100218125b0324@msapiro>

Mark Phillips wrote:
>
>I have seen the documentation on what the command line
>commands are, but I am not sure how to issue those
>commands from a python script.


See <http://docs.python.org/lib/os-process.html>

Briefly, once you have the list name, owner email and list password in
appropriate variables, and the members in a file, you can do something
like

import os
stat = os.spawnl(os.P_WAIT, 'path/to/bin/newlist', 'newlist', '-q',
                 list_name, owner_email, list_password)
if stat:
    print 'newlist command failed - %d' % stat
    ...
stat = os.spawnl(os.P_WAIT, 'path/to/bin/add_members', 'add_members',
                 '-r members file', '-w y', ...)
...

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jan 26 03:30:44 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 18:30:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] move from version 2.0.11 to 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <6c3e3c670601251122t4e951ac5p1587ed6867983389@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601251830440218125b0346@msapiro>

Chad Rebuck wrote:
>
>Mailman was installed via RPM.  I actually did have the lists/ and
>archives/ in the incorrect folder but I have copied them over to
>/var/lib/mailman now.


I'm guessing that you created the lists on the new installation before
you finally got the old lists/ directories in the right place. Thus,
you now have new config.pck and config.pck.last files with no members
and old config.db and config.db.last files with members that aren't
being used because of the presence of the config.pck.

If this is the case, just delete the config.pck and config.pck.last.
You can then run bin/update [-f], but you shouldn't have to as Mailman
will update/convert the config.db when the list is accessed. After you
have the converted config.pck, you can delete the config.db and
config.db.last.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jan 26 03:49:18 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 18:49:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman, Postfix and MySQL-based virtual domains
In-Reply-To: <200601252213.57076.werner_schalk@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601251849170984cf94efe9@msapiro>

Werner Schalk wrote:

>I created some mailing lists. But when I try to 
>send a mail to one of them I get the following error message in my log file:
>
>NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from unknown[62.8.A.B]: 550 <testlist at domain.tld>: 
>Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual mailbox table; 
>from=<me at domain.tld> to=<testlist at domain.tld> proto=ESMTP 
>helo=<mysystem.network.localnet>
>Jan 25 22:52:54 myserver postfix/smtpd[6906]: > unknown[62.8.A.B]: 550 
><testlist at domain.tld>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual 
>mailbox table
>
>My Postfix config file is as follows (digest):
>
>owner_request_special = no
>recipient_delimiter = +
>
>virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf, 
>hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
>virtual_gid_maps = static:211
>virtual_mailbox_base = /home/virtmail
>virtual_mailbox_domains = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_domains_maps.cf
>virtual_mailbox_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_mailbox_maps.cf
>virtual_transport = virtual
>virtual_uid_maps = static:211
>
>So according to http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html and 
>what I have found on the web, Postfix should consult 
>both /etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf 
>and /usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman in order to handle the mail (the 
>*.db file does exist in /usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman.db). 


I am not a Postfix user and I know little about it, but I think in
addition to the virtual_alias_maps above, you also need alias_maps
with at least hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases. See
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html>. (Sec 6.1.2 is in
addition to 6.1.1, not instead of)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hey_you at earthling.net  Thu Jan 26 03:21:02 2006
From: hey_you at earthling.net (Fernando Sabio)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:21:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Extracting membership list
In-Reply-To: <200601252213.57076.werner_schalk@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <01d401c6221f$294b0230$0901a8c0@vader>

I moved a few lists as part of a larger site-move and the lists aren't being
recognized as valid recipients when list members email the lists (ie: an
email to either list, ie: "all@<domain>", get's returned with either a 503
or 550 error.)
	Yet the lists can be administered, show a membership list, etc, so
otherwise, they look normal.

I have 2 lists, one simple and one not so simple.

After a lot of emails to cPanel (how I transferred sites), they've yet to be
able to fix, so I deleted the smaller/simple list and recreated it just as I
had it before, and now the "all@<domain>" functionality works as expected.

I'd like to do this with the 2nd list but the membership list spans many,
many pages.  (so a copy/paste via browser to notepad isn't efficient)

I have root on this box, and the "config.pck" file is available to me here:

/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/lists/<listname>/*

But the config.pck file isn't useful to me in a text editor when all I want
are the email addresses of existing members.

How does one extract the member data from a list like this if I'm the
rightful admin?

Thanks,

Fernando



From dan at thefoldmusic.com  Thu Jan 26 04:51:28 2006
From: dan at thefoldmusic.com (dan at thefoldmusic.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:51:28 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Backing up E-mail addresses in Mailman v 2.1.6
Message-ID: <00f101c6222b$cae262d0$0500a8c0@dellwv60slk8ja>

Is there an easy way to get all of your e-mail addresses out of Mailman version 2.1.6? Maybe a backup or export function? I know this sounds SO novice, but that's what I am, and the FAQ said nothing about it.

Daniel/The Fold
www.thefoldmusic.com

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jan 26 05:35:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 20:35:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Extracting membership list
In-Reply-To: <01d401c6221f$294b0230$0901a8c0@vader>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601252035500359a0e9ee99@msapiro>

Fernando Sabio wrote:
>
>I have root on this box, and the "config.pck" file is available to me here:
>
>/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/lists/<listname>/*
>
>But the config.pck file isn't useful to me in a text editor when all I want
>are the email addresses of existing members.
>
>How does one extract the member data from a list like this if I'm the
>rightful admin?

bin/listmembers --help

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dan at thefoldmusic.com  Thu Jan 26 05:28:51 2006
From: dan at thefoldmusic.com (dan at thefoldmusic.com)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 22:28:51 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Backing up E-mail addresses in Mailman v 2.1.6
Message-ID: <014a01c62231$038a1240$0500a8c0@dellwv60slk8ja>

Ok, I really appreciate the effort, but I don't know what a cronjob is. Can you explain what steps I need to take on a PC to get to this point: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.018.htp

I apologize, but I am TRULY just learning about this. A total novice.

~Daniel

On Jan 25, 2006, at 9:51 PM, <dan at thefoldmusic.com> wrote:

> Is there an easy way to get all of your e-mail addresses out of  
> Mailman version 2.1.6? Maybe a backup or export function? I know  
> this sounds SO novice, but that's what I am, and the FAQ said  
> nothing about it.
>
> Daniel/The Fold
> www.thefoldmusic.com


The easy (for me to give) answer for backing up a list is here:  
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.018.htp  
but if you don't have shell access to the server it's a bit more  
difficult.

The options are described in this post from the archives: http:// 
www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg34467.html

Dan


================================
Dan Phillips
Associate Professor of Horn, University of Memphis
site administrator: music.memphis.edu


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jan 26 06:02:40 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:02:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Backing up E-mail addresses in Mailman v 2.1.6
In-Reply-To: <014a01c62231$038a1240$0500a8c0@dellwv60slk8ja>
Message-ID: <PC17402006012521024001255ef995e5@msapiro>

dan at thefoldmusic.com wrote:

>Ok, I really appreciate the effort, but I don't know what a cronjob is. Can you explain what steps I need to take on a PC to get to this point: 
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.018.htp
>
>I apologize, but I am TRULY just learning about this. A total novice.

I suspect that you have neither shell access nor the ability to set up
cron jobs on the host server, so the information in the above FAQ is
not useful to you. The material you quoted pointed to a post from me
which may help, but this comes up all the time and there are many
posts in the archives of this list on this topic.

In particular, see
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-January/048484.html>
for a summary of options that I think apply in your case.

Of these options, scripting the web interface may be the best, but it
will be slow for 14,000+ members. The email "who" command may do the
job if you don't have hidden members. To use the web script, you have
to install Python on your PC <http://www.python.org/download/>, and
then you can just run the script.

Another thing you might consider if this is just a one time shot is
asking the host service to run 'bin/list_members' for you and put the
result where you can download it or email it to you.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From nofiandyt at i4te.com  Thu Jan 26 06:14:58 2006
From: nofiandyt at i4te.com (Nofiandyt)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 12:14:58 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Zope Error
Message-ID: <003b01c62237$7362fa90$a258010a@sndxp>

Hi,

I use zope ver.2.4.3
I was just got an error like this :

Zope Error
Zope has encountered an error while publishing this resource.

Error Type: sql.error
Error Value: ('22008', 241, '[Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL Server]Syntax error converting datetime from character string.')


Just info :

I found this code in index_html, maybe this code cause an error.

<dtml-call "REQUEST.set('vartgl', _.DateTime())">


Could you help me to solve this problem ?



Thanks A Lot.





From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jan 26 06:31:22 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 21:31:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Extracting membership list
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601252035500359a0e9ee99@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC17402006012521312208435ef998a1@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>bin/listmembers --help

That should have been

bin/list_members --help

Sorry for any confusion.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Thu Jan 26 06:58:27 2006
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 00:58:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman, Postfix and MySQL-based virtual domains
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601251849170984cf94efe9@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200601251849170984cf94efe9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43D86503.9040401@wingfoot.org>

Mark Sapiro said the following on 1/25/2006 9:49 PM:
> Werner Schalk wrote:
> 
>> I created some mailing lists. But when I try to 
>> send a mail to one of them I get the following error message in my log file:

Just curious... do you issue:

postmap /usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

Because, if you don't, it's not hashed. (check for the existence of
/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman.db--if it doesn't exist, you're
not postmap'ing it.)

Best,
--Glenn
-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
          ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759


From Hannu.Niemi at kuntaliitto.fi  Thu Jan 26 07:22:37 2006
From: Hannu.Niemi at kuntaliitto.fi (Niemi Hannu)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 08:22:37 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation problems
Message-ID: <C262B8ECE515D348BF758C93F12F6F7602867E6C@KLMAIL.ad.kuntaliitto.fi>

> -----Alkuper?inen viesti-----
> L?hett?j?: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
> L?hetetty: 25. tammikuuta 2006 17:37
> Vastaanottaja: Niemi Hannu; mailman-users at python.org
> Aihe: Re: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation problems

> Have you overridden PENDING_REQUEST_LIFE in mm_cfg.py?

Not that I know... and I checked, no such a line. The default in Defaults.py seems to be days(3) as it should....
> 
> How are you confirming? Web or email? Does it fail both ways? 
> What do the actual confirm strings look like?

Yes, it fails all ways, I have tried replying, sending the confirm string and by the web form. Always the same.

Confirm string looks like this:
confirm 0e36dd2b0c2825e99b3a9fe234790f8fba059f6f

> 
> >I also added another virtual host to mailman, and this list uses it, 
> >could this cause this somehow?
> 
> Is it only this list that fails? It is not likely a virtual 
> host problem as host really isn't involved in processing 
> confirmations.

I had to test the others. To be honest I haven't earlier used this kind of "user-driven subscription" in any of the lists on that server, but have been adding the users on the web form instead.

And the result is that (what was exactly what I was afraid of ;)) that at least the one I tested worked...

What gives???

Best regards

hannu


From jasper-mmu at pointless.net  Thu Jan 26 10:43:14 2006
From: jasper-mmu at pointless.net (jasper-mmu at pointless.net)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 09:43:14 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pgp key E099F769?
In-Reply-To: <43D7E2CF.3000306@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <Pine.NEB.4.63.0601251915590.817@wryylpng.ubzr.cbvagyrff.arg>
	<43D7E2CF.3000306@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.63.0601260942080.1844@wryylpng.ubzr.cbvagyrff.arg>

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, Tokio Kikuchi wrote:

> jasper-mmu at pointless.net wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> 2.1.7 is signed by key-id E099F769, but i can't find that key anywhere!
>> 
>> can someone put it on the public keyservers pls?
>> 
>
> Sorry for the inconvenience.  Now it can be found at:
> http://keyserver.veridis.com:11371/search?q=0xE099F769

Got it now, thanks.

Might be a good idea if you and Barry sign each others keys, so there is
some kind of continuity of trust going on.

-- 
[http://pointless.net/]                                   [0x2ECA0975]


From lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il  Thu Jan 26 12:29:43 2006
From: lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il (lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 13:29:43 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman, Postfix and MySQL-based virtual domains
Message-ID: <5570AD7B7ABD5F4493883FF8F482BC94014CFA2A@exchsrv01.haifa.edu>

Hi,

You could check the "Web-Cyradm and Mailman Integration HOWTO" - http://archives.free.net.ph/message/20050828.134201.19d55b0e.en.html
I've wrote some time ago.

This should solve your problem.

Best Regards,
Leon Kolchinsky

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 4:49 AM
To: werner_schalk at gmx.de; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman, Postfix and MySQL-based virtual domains

Werner Schalk wrote:

>I created some mailing lists. But when I try to 
>send a mail to one of them I get the following error message in my log file:
>
>NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from unknown[62.8.A.B]: 550 <testlist at domain.tld>: 
>Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual mailbox table; 
>from=<me at domain.tld> to=<testlist at domain.tld> proto=ESMTP 
>helo=<mysystem.network.localnet>
>Jan 25 22:52:54 myserver postfix/smtpd[6906]: > unknown[62.8.A.B]: 550 
><testlist at domain.tld>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual 
>mailbox table
>
>My Postfix config file is as follows (digest):
>
>owner_request_special = no
>recipient_delimiter = +
>
>virtual_alias_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf, 
>hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
>virtual_gid_maps = static:211
>virtual_mailbox_base = /home/virtmail
>virtual_mailbox_domains = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_domains_maps.cf
>virtual_mailbox_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_mailbox_maps.cf
>virtual_transport = virtual
>virtual_uid_maps = static:211
>
>So according to http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html and 
>what I have found on the web, Postfix should consult 
>both /etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf 
>and /usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman in order to handle the mail (the 
>*.db file does exist in /usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman.db). 


I am not a Postfix user and I know little about it, but I think in
addition to the virtual_alias_maps above, you also need alias_maps
with at least hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases. See
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html>. (Sec 6.1.2 is in
addition to 6.1.1, not instead of)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From kjpinkley at gmail.com  Thu Jan 26 16:56:41 2006
From: kjpinkley at gmail.com (Kyle Pinkley)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 09:56:41 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Regenerate the archives index.html file
Message-ID: <ef6ab2dc0601260756x1027a74av582af246ea987e7a@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I am working with a server where some of the html pages got defaced via the
"NeverEverNoSanity" (old) worm).  One of the pages that got defaced was the
index.html page of one of the archives
(/mailman/archives/public/list_name).  How can I  regenerate this file?

Thanks in advance.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Jan 26 17:05:19 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 17:05:19 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Regenerate the archives index.html file
In-Reply-To: <ef6ab2dc0601260756x1027a74av582af246ea987e7a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ef6ab2dc0601260756x1027a74av582af246ea987e7a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p0620073abffea3a55687@[10.0.1.210]>

At 9:56 AM -0600 2006-01-26, Kyle Pinkley wrote:

>  I am working with a server where some of the html pages got defaced via the
>  "NeverEverNoSanity" (old) worm).  One of the pages that got defaced was the
>  index.html page of one of the archives
>  (/mailman/archives/public/list_name).  How can I  regenerate this file?

	Search the FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> for "archive", and read 
the various entries that are returned.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From dellsworth at mac.com  Thu Jan 26 18:01:43 2006
From: dellsworth at mac.com (David Ellsworth)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 12:01:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Responses getting through to one-way list
Message-ID: <BFFE6AA7.6818%dellsworth@mac.com>

I'm running Mailman on a xserve Tiger install and I thought I had it set up
to deny all attempts to post to the list, but recently several posts are
getting through to the whole list. Are there specific instructions on how to
prevent this and insure a one-way list?

Thanks in advance!

David  




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Jan 26 18:49:26 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 18:49:26 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Responses getting through to one-way list
In-Reply-To: <BFFE6AA7.6818%dellsworth@mac.com>
References: <BFFE6AA7.6818%dellsworth@mac.com>
Message-ID: <p0620073dbffebc090ded@[10.0.1.210]>

At 12:01 PM -0500 2006-01-26, David Ellsworth wrote:

>  I'm running Mailman on a xserve Tiger install and I thought I had it set up
>  to deny all attempts to post to the list, but recently several posts are
>  getting through to the whole list. Are there specific instructions on how to
>  prevent this and insure a one-way list?

	Go to the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> and search for "announce".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From hf at spg.tu-darmstadt.de  Thu Jan 26 18:46:43 2006
From: hf at spg.tu-darmstadt.de (Hauke Fath)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 18:46:43 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman problem after 2.1.5 -> 2.1.7 update
Message-ID: <f06230905bffebaabd1ca@[130.83.186.53]>

Hi,

I am seeing a problem with mail/mailman after updating an existing 
2.1.5 installation to 2.1.7nb1. This is a NetBSD pkgsrc setup; an 
update leaves changed config files and the lists database around and 
installs the new binaries, scripts etc., just like you'd do a manual 
update.

Basically, both the .../mailman/listinfo and .../mailman/admin pages 
have the URLs to the existing mailing lists wrong. They look like

<a 
href="https://www.spg.tu-darmstadt.de/mailman/listinfo""/rt2-praktikum"><strong>RT2-Praktikum</strong></a></td>

-- note the extra pair of quotes between the base URL and the list 
name. Browsers ignore the part after the quote pair.

I haven't found a way of tweaking this and assume that the list URLs 
are made up dynamically by the cgi script (rather, binary).

Does anybody else see this? Any pointers?

	hauke

-- 
/~\  The ASCII Ribbon Campaign                    Hauke Fath
\ /    No HTML/RTF in email	        Institut f?r Nachrichtentechnik
  X     No Word docs in email	                  TU Darmstadt
/ \  Respect for open standards              Ruf +49-6151-16-3281


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Jan 26 19:06:52 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 19:06:52 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman problem after 2.1.5 -> 2.1.7 update
In-Reply-To: <f06230905bffebaabd1ca@[130.83.186.53]>
References: <f06230905bffebaabd1ca@[130.83.186.53]>
Message-ID: <p0620073ebffec00fff61@[10.0.1.210]>

At 6:46 PM +0100 2006-01-26, Hauke Fath wrote:

>  I haven't found a way of tweaking this and assume that the list URLs
>  are made up dynamically by the cgi script (rather, binary).
>
>  Does anybody else see this? Any pointers?

	The URLs are probably messed up in your mm_cfg.py (mailman 
configuration) file.  Try posting the contents of that file.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From orrick at acns.fsu.edu  Thu Jan 26 19:05:53 2006
From: orrick at acns.fsu.edu (Diana Orrick)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 13:05:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0601261258300.14541@acns.fsu.edu>


http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/16248/discuss

GNU Mailman Large Date Data Denial Of Service Vulnerability

GNU Mailman is prone to a denial of service attack. This issue affects the
email date parsing functionality of Mailman.

The vulnerability could be triggered by mailing list posts and will impact
the availability of mailing lists hosted by the application.
______________________________________________________________________
this notice was from SANS at RISK:

06.3.18 CVE: CVE-2005-4153
Platform: Unix
Title: GNU Mailman Large Date Data Denial of Service
Description: Mailman is software to help manage email discussion
lists, much like Majordomo and SmartList. The application is exposed
to a denial of service issue when it attempts to parse very large
numbers of dates contained in email messages. All current versions are
affected.
Ref: http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/16248
______________________________________________________________________

--------------------------------------------------------------
We are running Mailman 2.1.5 and have just found extraordinary
IO wait issues requiring shutdown|restart of Mailman.

The notice suggests all versions are vulnerable, is this the case?
If so, suggested workaround? Patch/upgrade coming?

Thanks for any info on this issue,
-DMO

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Diana Mayer Orrick              email: orrick at ucs.fsu.edu
 University Computing Services          ph: (850) 644-2591
 Florida State University              fax: (850) 644-8722
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 26 20:33:30 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 14:33:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] denying mbox AND txt archives
In-Reply-To: <43D830B2.6030900@yahoo.com>
References: <43D8086F.1060800@yahoo.com> <43D830B2.6030900@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43D9240A.8080102@yahoo.com>

And I have now added this info to the MM FAQ as

   4.66. disabling "bulk" pipermal archive files (.mbox and .txt) **

-Jim P.

Jim Popovitch wrote:
> OK, I solved my own problem with....
> 
> this bit of Apache config:
>      RedirectMatch permanent /mailman/private/.*/.*\.txt /mailman/
>      RedirectMatch permanent /mailman/private/.*/.*\.mbox /mailman/
>      RedirectMatch permanent /archives/.*/.*\.txt /archives/
>      RedirectMatch permanent /archives/.*/.*\.mbox /archives/
> 
> this change to HyperArch.py:
> 
>     *** Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py       Wed Jan 25 18:04:16 2006
>     --- Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py.orig  Wed Jan 25 18:04:13 2006
>     ***************
>     *** 817,824 ****
>               else:
>                   # there's no archive file at all... hmmm.
>                   textlink = ''
>     -
>     -         textlink = ''
>               return quick_maketext(
>                   'archtocentry.html',
>                   {'archive': arch,
>     --- 817,822 ----
> 
> and minor changes to template/*/archliststart.html to remove language 
> specific references to "Downloadable version".
> 
> I honestly think that Mailman should support properly chmod'ing 
> private/*/*.mbox and private/*/*.txt files when the site sets 
> PUBLIC_MBOX to "No".
> 
> BTW, this was for MM 2.1.7
> 
> -Jim P.
> 
> Jim Popovitch wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Is there a way to "privatize" archive txt files?  I know that 
>> PUBLIC_MBOX prevents the mbox URL from appearing in thread.html, 
>> date.html, etc., and I can also block *.mbox at the server.  HOWEVER, 
>> blocking *.txt at the server isn't an option for me.  Is there a way to 
>> have the archiver chmod archive .txt and .mbox files?
>>
>> Tia,
>>
>> -Jim P.
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list
>> Mailman-Users at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jimpop%40yahoo.com
>>
>> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>>
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jimpop%40yahoo.com
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Jan 26 21:07:49 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 21:07:49 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0601261258300.14541@acns.fsu.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0601261258300.14541@acns.fsu.edu>
Message-ID: <p06200745bffedac040f3@[10.0.1.210]>

At 1:05 PM -0500 2006-01-26, Diana Orrick wrote:

>  http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/16248/discuss
>
>  GNU Mailman Large Date Data Denial Of Service Vulnerability
>
>  GNU Mailman is prone to a denial of service attack. This issue affects the
>  email date parsing functionality of Mailman.
>
>  The vulnerability could be triggered by mailing list posts and will impact
>  the availability of mailing lists hosted by the application.

	All security-related questions should be handled in accordance 
with FAQ 1.27, see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 26 21:28:22 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 15:28:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <p06200745bffedac040f3@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0601261258300.14541@acns.fsu.edu>
	<p06200745bffedac040f3@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <43D930E6.2060700@yahoo.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> 	All security-related questions should be handled in accordance 
> with FAQ 1.27, see 
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp>.

OK, that makes some sense to keep it hush-hush for a while.  HOWEVER, 
what is the process for notifying Mailman admins of temporary 
workarounds for this and any other situation?  I honestly don't want to 
wait for an official patch if there is an interim solution.

I wouldn't have known of this issue if Diana hadn't of mentioned it here 
first.  Thank you Diana for at least bringing this issue to my attention.

Brad, I can assume that many many other admins will want to know of 
"next-steps" for this problem.  What should we do to make sure we are 
kept in the loop if it isn't discussed/relayed somehow?

-Jim P.



From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Thu Jan 26 21:59:01 2006
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 05:59:01 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0601261258300.14541@acns.fsu.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0601261258300.14541@acns.fsu.edu>
Message-ID: <43D93815.8010009@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi,

Diana Orrick wrote:
> http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/16248/discuss
> 
> GNU Mailman Large Date Data Denial Of Service Vulnerability
> 
> GNU Mailman is prone to a denial of service attack. This issue affects the
> email date parsing functionality of Mailman.
> 
> The vulnerability could be triggered by mailing list posts and will impact
> the availability of mailing lists hosted by the application.
> ______________________________________________________________________
> this notice was from SANS at RISK:
> 
> 06.3.18 CVE: CVE-2005-4153
> Platform: Unix
> Title: GNU Mailman Large Date Data Denial of Service
> Description: Mailman is software to help manage email discussion
> lists, much like Majordomo and SmartList. The application is exposed
> to a denial of service issue when it attempts to parse very large
> numbers of dates contained in email messages. All current versions are
> affected.
> Ref: http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/16248
> ______________________________________________________________________

Once it was only a "bug" which could cause nuisance in administrative 
task.  Now they start to call it a "DoS" and threaten us. ;-)

Mailman sends messages in both regular and digest delivery.  The digest 
processing is inserted in the middle of regular delivery if the messages 
accumulated to a preset amount.  If there is a serious error in the 
digest processing, the regular delivery fails.  Since the messages are 
accumulated already, arrival of following message triggers the digest 
processing again and also fail in the subsequent regular delivery.

This is the mechanism of "Denial of Service".

Therefore, the site administrator should check the qfiles/shunt 
directory and the logs/error file periodically.

Brad Knowls' Daily Status Report should help in this respect.  I really 
want to rewrite it in python and include in the official cron jobs (if I 
had enough time before the next release of mailman 2.2).
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1123383&group_id=103&atid=300103

Mailman has many check points that prevents such a malicious messages to 
be passed through and site/list admins could be able to find workarounds.

But, from mailman-2.1.7, we solved the problem by separating the error 
from regular delivery by the python "try-except" techique.  The digest 
delivery will be still stopped by the malicious message but this should 
be notified to the site administrator by the cron/senddigests command.

So, the answer to this CVE is "upgrade to 2.1.7."

We found mailman-2.1.7 still has a few bugs and also uploaded an 
official patch:
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1405790&group_id=103&atid=300103
I hope we can announce mailman-2.1.8a1 very soon.

> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> We are running Mailman 2.1.5 and have just found extraordinary
> IO wait issues requiring shutdown|restart of Mailman.

This may or may not related to the DoS issue.  I suggest checking lock 
files, shunt directory, and pending requests and search mailman FAQ.

> 
> The notice suggests all versions are vulnerable, is this the case?
> If so, suggested workaround? Patch/upgrade coming?

Mailman-2.1.7 is not vulnerable to this issue.

Cheers,

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi


From orrick at acns.fsu.edu  Thu Jan 26 22:17:15 2006
From: orrick at acns.fsu.edu (Diana Orrick)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 16:17:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <43D93815.8010009@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0601261258300.14541@acns.fsu.edu>
	<43D93815.8010009@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0601261616540.14541@acns.fsu.edu>


Thank you for your prompt response and suggestion!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Diana Mayer Orrick              email: orrick at ucs.fsu.edu
 University Computing Services          ph: (850) 644-2591
 Florida State University              fax: (850) 644-8722
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006, Tokio Kikuchi wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Diana Orrick wrote:
> > http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/16248/discuss
> >
> > GNU Mailman Large Date Data Denial Of Service Vulnerability
> >
> > GNU Mailman is prone to a denial of service attack. This issue affects the
> > email date parsing functionality of Mailman.
> >
> > The vulnerability could be triggered by mailing list posts and will impact
> > the availability of mailing lists hosted by the application.
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > this notice was from SANS at RISK:
> >
> > 06.3.18 CVE: CVE-2005-4153
> > Platform: Unix
> > Title: GNU Mailman Large Date Data Denial of Service
> > Description: Mailman is software to help manage email discussion
> > lists, much like Majordomo and SmartList. The application is exposed
> > to a denial of service issue when it attempts to parse very large
> > numbers of dates contained in email messages. All current versions are
> > affected.
> > Ref: http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/16248
> > ______________________________________________________________________
>
> Once it was only a "bug" which could cause nuisance in administrative
> task.  Now they start to call it a "DoS" and threaten us. ;-)
>
> Mailman sends messages in both regular and digest delivery.  The digest
> processing is inserted in the middle of regular delivery if the messages
> accumulated to a preset amount.  If there is a serious error in the
> digest processing, the regular delivery fails.  Since the messages are
> accumulated already, arrival of following message triggers the digest
> processing again and also fail in the subsequent regular delivery.
>
> This is the mechanism of "Denial of Service".
>
> Therefore, the site administrator should check the qfiles/shunt
> directory and the logs/error file periodically.
>
> Brad Knowls' Daily Status Report should help in this respect.  I really
> want to rewrite it in python and include in the official cron jobs (if I
> had enough time before the next release of mailman 2.2).
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1123383&group_id=103&atid=300103
>
> Mailman has many check points that prevents such a malicious messages to
> be passed through and site/list admins could be able to find workarounds.
>
> But, from mailman-2.1.7, we solved the problem by separating the error
> from regular delivery by the python "try-except" techique.  The digest
> delivery will be still stopped by the malicious message but this should
> be notified to the site administrator by the cron/senddigests command.
>
> So, the answer to this CVE is "upgrade to 2.1.7."
>
> We found mailman-2.1.7 still has a few bugs and also uploaded an
> official patch:
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1405790&group_id=103&atid=300103
> I hope we can announce mailman-2.1.8a1 very soon.
>
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > We are running Mailman 2.1.5 and have just found extraordinary
> > IO wait issues requiring shutdown|restart of Mailman.
>
> This may or may not related to the DoS issue.  I suggest checking lock
> files, shunt directory, and pending requests and search mailman FAQ.
>
> >
> > The notice suggests all versions are vulnerable, is this the case?
> > If so, suggested workaround? Patch/upgrade coming?
>
> Mailman-2.1.7 is not vulnerable to this issue.
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Tokio Kikuchi
>


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 26 22:40:12 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 16:40:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <43D93815.8010009@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0601261258300.14541@acns.fsu.edu>
	<43D93815.8010009@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <43D941BC.7010202@yahoo.com>

Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
 >
[snip]
> 
> This is the mechanism of "Denial of Service".

Thank you Tokio for the very detailed info.

> Therefore, the site administrator should check the qfiles/shunt 
> directory and the logs/error file periodically.
> 
> Brad Knowls' Daily Status Report should help in this respect.  I really 
> want to rewrite it in python and include in the official cron jobs (if I 
> had enough time before the next release of mailman 2.2).
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1123383&group_id=103&atid=300103

Excellent addition to Mailman.  I presume this will wind up in the 
distribution one day?

-Jim P.




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Jan 26 23:19:57 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 23:19:57 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <43D941BC.7010202@yahoo.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0601261258300.14541@acns.fsu.edu>
	<43D93815.8010009@is.kochi-u.ac.jp> <43D941BC.7010202@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06200749bffef9d78a5a@[10.0.1.210]>

At 4:40 PM -0500 2006-01-26, Jim Popovitch wrote:

>> 
>>http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1123383&group_id=103&atid=300103
>
>  Excellent addition to Mailman.  I presume this will wind up in the
>  distribution one day?

	There is a slightly older version of the script which was 
included in the contrib/ subdirectory of Mailman-2.1.7, and I 
uploaded an updated version of the script to this page just yesterday.

	I do not yet know what it takes to get this stuff automatically 
included as part of the tarball generation process, but we're working 
on that.  The updated version should certainly be included in the 
next official release, even if it's still just in the contrib/ 
subdirectory.


	Myself, I would also love to see it get re-written in Python, and 
the recent discussion we've had on this list with Bryan Carbonnell 
regarding his Python tool (mentioned in 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-January/048687.html>) 
could ultimately be incorporated into one larger and more 
full-featured part of the overall Mailman system.

	Of course, that also means that I won't have to maintain it, 
since I write in Bourne shell and not Python.  ;)

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Jan 26 23:11:16 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 23:11:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <43D930E6.2060700@yahoo.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0601261258300.14541@acns.fsu.edu>
	<p06200745bffedac040f3@[10.0.1.210]> <43D930E6.2060700@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06200748bffef8a542aa@[10.0.1.210]>

At 3:28 PM -0500 2006-01-26, Jim Popovitch wrote:

>  OK, that makes some sense to keep it hush-hush for a while.  HOWEVER, what
>  is the process for notifying Mailman admins of temporary workarounds for
>  this and any other situation?  I honestly don't want to wait for an
>  official patch if there is an interim solution.

	You'll have to get the official word from Barry, but I'm sure 
that as soon as there is any work around that has been determined, 
that would be announced in the appropriate places.

	In the meanwhile, this is the first I've heard of this matter, 
and I don't have any more information to make available to you.

>  Brad, I can assume that many many other admins will want to know of
>  "next-steps" for this problem.  What should we do to make sure we are
>  kept in the loop if it isn't discussed/relayed somehow?

	Right now, there is no next step.  The matter needs to be handled 
through the appropriate channels (which are reasonably secure).  Part 
of that standard process would be making sure that a suitable 
announcement is made at the appropriate time.

	I don't think that we can do anything more than this, and I don't 
think it's reasonable to expect anything more than this.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 26 23:53:48 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 17:53:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <p06200748bffef8a542aa@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0601261258300.14541@acns.fsu.edu>
	<p06200745bffedac040f3@[10.0.1.210]> <43D930E6.2060700@yahoo.com>
	<p06200748bffef8a542aa@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <43D952FC.7000502@yahoo.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 3:28 PM -0500 2006-01-26, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> 
>>  OK, that makes some sense to keep it hush-hush for a while.  HOWEVER, 
>> what
>>  is the process for notifying Mailman admins of temporary workarounds for
>>  this and any other situation?  I honestly don't want to wait for an
>>  official patch if there is an interim solution.
> 
>     You'll have to get the official word from Barry, but I'm sure that 
> as soon as there is any work around that has been determined, that would 
> be announced in the appropriate places.

Fair enough.  I would like to find a way for myself (and other Mailman 
admins) to be in that appropriate place.  This doesn't mean all Mailman 
users, perhaps their should be a pre-screened 
mailman-site-admins at python.org list.

>     In the meanwhile, this is the first I've heard of this matter, and I 
> don't have any more information to make available to you.
> 
>>  Brad, I can assume that many many other admins will want to know of
>>  "next-steps" for this problem.  What should we do to make sure we are
>>  kept in the loop if it isn't discussed/relayed somehow?
> 
>     Right now, there is no next step.  The matter needs to be handled 
> through the appropriate channels (which are reasonably secure).  Part of 
> that standard process would be making sure that a suitable announcement 
> is made at the appropriate time.
> 
>     I don't think that we can do anything more than this, and I don't 
> think it's reasonable to expect anything more than this.

I just want to add that, from a site admins perspective, no advanced 
knowledge about a need to update/upgrade is a bad situation.  Imagine 
finding out on Friday afternoon that there is a new critical fix (where 
the bug was known for weeks by the vendor) for a system that you 
responsible for maintaining.  Some admins like quiet weekends and 
well-planned upgrades.  Having advanced knowledge of what is involved 
makes perfect sense to me.

-Jim P.






From mailinglists at backbonetechnology.com  Fri Jan 27 00:10:17 2006
From: mailinglists at backbonetechnology.com (Dustin Krysak)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 15:10:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] prevent address spoofs [dnk]
Message-ID: <03AE3F21-470F-4A8C-95B2-FEC107CF7D2F@backbonetechnology.com>

Good day -- I am looking at using mailman for a list that will just  
have 1 -4 addresses that will be authorized to actually post to the  
list. I am also looking for a way to manage list members with a web  
interface as well as the usual subscription type functions.  Now one  
of my main concerns is if someone actually spoofs one of the  
authorized email addresses. Does mailman have a good security measure  
for preventing that? That is without having to approve every post  
through a web interface?

Thanks in advance!



Dustin



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 27 00:40:14 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 18:40:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] prevent address spoofs [dnk]
In-Reply-To: <03AE3F21-470F-4A8C-95B2-FEC107CF7D2F@backbonetechnology.com>
References: <03AE3F21-470F-4A8C-95B2-FEC107CF7D2F@backbonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <43D95DDE.3050007@yahoo.com>

Dustin Krysak wrote:
> Good day -- I am looking at using mailman for a list that will just  
> have 1 -4 addresses that will be authorized to actually post to the  
> list. I am also looking for a way to manage list members with a web  
> interface as well as the usual subscription type functions.  Now one  
> of my main concerns is if someone actually spoofs one of the  
> authorized email addresses. Does mailman have a good security measure  
> for preventing that? That is without having to approve every post  
> through a web interface?
> 

Hi Dustin,

Short answer: No.  Email spoof prevention is less of a mailinglist 
feature and more of a MTA feature.  Checkout using SPF or DKIM on your 
MTA.

-Jim P.




From mengland at mengland.net  Fri Jan 27 00:45:03 2006
From: mengland at mengland.net (Matt England)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 17:45:03 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to avoid dup copies to *multiple* email lists?
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20060126174243.0459c540@127.0.0.1>

How can someone subscribed to 2 (or more) emails lists from the same 
GNUMailman email server avoid duplicate copies of emails that are sent to 
both (or more) of these email lists?

My 2.1.6-rc2 server simply sends me multiple emails in such a case, even 
though I have the "avoid duplicates" set on my user-specific setting (which 
I believe is meant to avoid Cc:'s directly to me, and not necessarily the 
above scenario?).

-Matt



From mengland at mengland.net  Fri Jan 27 00:54:24 2006
From: mengland at mengland.net (Matt England)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 17:54:24 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to avoid dup copies to *multiple* email
	lists?
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20060126174243.0459c540@127.0.0.1>
References: <6.1.2.0.2.20060126174243.0459c540@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20060126175327.04989768@127.0.0.1>

At 1/26/2006 05:45 PM, Matt England wrote:
>My 2.1.6-rc2 server

Actually, it's a 2.1.6rc4 server.  Sorry for any confusion.

-Matt 



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Jan 27 00:59:08 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:59:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <43D952FC.7000502@yahoo.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0601261258300.14541@acns.fsu.edu>
	<p06200745bffedac040f3@[10.0.1.210]> <43D930E6.2060700@yahoo.com>
	<p06200748bffef8a542aa@[10.0.1.210]> <43D952FC.7000502@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p0620074abfff0e4453e1@[10.0.1.210]>

At 5:53 PM -0500 2006-01-26, Jim Popovitch wrote:

>  Fair enough.  I would like to find a way for myself (and other Mailman
>  admins) to be in that appropriate place.  This doesn't mean all Mailman
>  users, perhaps their should be a pre-screened
>  mailman-site-admins at python.org list.

	IMO, this is the correct place.

>>      I don't think that we can do anything more than this, and I don't
>>  think it's reasonable to expect anything more than this.
>
>  I just want to add that, from a site admins perspective, no advanced
>  knowledge about a need to update/upgrade is a bad situation.  Imagine
>  finding out on Friday afternoon that there is a new critical fix (where
>  the bug was known for weeks by the vendor) for a system that you
>  responsible for maintaining.

	Imagine being a vendor/author of a given piece of software, and 
have someone else ask a question on your most public mailing list 
about a bug that someone else claims to have known about for months, 
only this is the first time you're hearing of it.

>                                Some admins like quiet weekends and
>  well-planned upgrades.  Having advanced knowledge of what is involved
>  makes perfect sense to me.

	Yeah, authors and vendors don't like nasty surprises, either.

	Fortunately, in this case it is a known issue (which others have 
apparently decided to portray in a very different way), and which has 
already been addressed (as described by Tokio).

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From lists05 at equinephotoart.com  Fri Jan 27 01:09:30 2006
From: lists05 at equinephotoart.com (JC Dill)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 16:09:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] prevent address spoofs [dnk]
In-Reply-To: <03AE3F21-470F-4A8C-95B2-FEC107CF7D2F@backbonetechnology.com>
References: <03AE3F21-470F-4A8C-95B2-FEC107CF7D2F@backbonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <43D964BA.7050001@equinephotoart.com>

Dustin Krysak wrote:
> Good day -- I am looking at using mailman for a list that will just  
> have 1 -4 addresses that will be authorized to actually post to the  
> list. I am also looking for a way to manage list members with a web  
> interface as well as the usual subscription type functions.  Now one  
> of my main concerns is if someone actually spoofs one of the  
> authorized email addresses. Does mailman have a good security measure  
> for preventing that? That is without having to approve every post  
> through a web interface?

One way to accomplish your goal is set-up your list as an announcement 
list where every message must be approved before sending on to the 
subscribers.  Then you give the 4 individuals the moderator approval 
password and they include that password in the headers or first line of 
each post they make to the list.  Mailman strips off the approval line 
and then sends the message on to the list subscribers.  If someone 
forged one of these senders when sending to the list the message would 
be held for approval because it didn't have the password.

See:

<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.034.htp>

jc



From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Fri Jan 27 01:41:55 2006
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 09:41:55 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to avoid dup copies to *multiple* email
	lists?
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20060126174243.0459c540@127.0.0.1>
References: <6.1.2.0.2.20060126174243.0459c540@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <43D96C53.3040606@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Matt England wrote:
> How can someone subscribed to 2 (or more) emails lists from the same 
> GNUMailman email server avoid duplicate copies of emails that are sent to 
> both (or more) of these email lists?

Do you want this feature?
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1347962&group_id=103&atid=300103

I plan to integrate it in mailman-2.2.

> 
> My 2.1.6-rc2 server simply sends me multiple emails in such a case, even 
> though I have the "avoid duplicates" set on my user-specific setting (which 
> I believe is meant to avoid Cc:'s directly to me, and not necessarily the 
> above scenario?).
> 
No, this is not for multiple lists.

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/


From ml at mleo.net  Fri Jan 27 01:12:03 2006
From: ml at mleo.net (Matthias Leonhardt)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 01:12:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Postfix and default mailbox
Message-ID: <43D96553.2000400@mleo.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi there,

I have a working mailman and postfix installation.
in my postfix config I have a virtual user alias for my domain which
allows me to get all mail which has no explicit EMail-Box goes to one
default box
*@mydomain.com    ->  mailbox1
this is configured in the postfix virtual_maps directive in main.cf

now I have a mailinglist
mylist at mydomain.com  |mailman
which is configured in the postfix alias_maps directive in main.cf
The mailing list only works if I disable the default virtual mailbox entry.
So how can I get this work together? It should be working if postfix
first looks into the alias table instead of virtual_maps.

Any suggestions?

thanks and kind regards,
Matthias Leonhardt
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFD2WVT0PAecDwsKOERAq4gAKCpiuKD8sDtbzWNYPzzvKuYgAPh3QCgqt8x
wNnANpSUkUvCSv0PlGKO5aU=
=qOGt
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From mengland at mengland.net  Fri Jan 27 02:09:59 2006
From: mengland at mengland.net (Matt England)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 19:09:59 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to avoid dup copies to *multiple* email
 lists?
In-Reply-To: <43D96C53.3040606@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <6.1.2.0.2.20060126174243.0459c540@127.0.0.1>
	<43D96C53.3040606@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20060126190956.04bdc648@127.0.0.1>

Thanks for the quick and thorough reply.

At 1/26/2006 06:41 PM, Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
>Do you want this feature?
>http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1347962&group_id=103&atid=300103

 From what I can read from the above link, I say yes.

>I plan to integrate it in mailman-2.2.

I realize this is not a comfortable or appropriate question to ask in the 
context of community-based, open-source projects, but:  is there a 
projected time frame for 2.2?  This answer will help me to determine to 
whether or not to wait for 2.2 or load any patches (as per above), even if 
the answer is "we don't know what the time frame is"...in which case I'll 
probably just load the patch.

-Matt 



From mengland at mengland.net  Fri Jan 27 02:27:23 2006
From: mengland at mengland.net (Matt England)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 19:27:23 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual-domain support?
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20060126192403.04a93428@127.0.0.1>

I've been away from the list for a while, and am curious:

Will "virtual domains" support be included in Mailman 2.2...if they are not 
already?

By "virtual domain" support I mean the ability to support email lists from 
multiple domains via one GNUMailman installation on one server.  I manage 
virtual-domain-based servers, and would love to not to have install a 
different Mailman instance for every domain I support.  (Mailman remains 
the only collaborative app I use--and I use a lot of them--which I deem not 
sufficiently "virtual-domain" capable.)

-Matt



From cmowen at att.net  Fri Jan 27 02:32:14 2006
From: cmowen at att.net (Charles M. Owen)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:32:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] An interesting problem 2.1.6
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAJQ0nI3Qft0+nbxUwgjQeksKAAAAQAAAA+78SEyg/Z0+PV6Z+B1xYkQEAAAAA@att.net>

One of my users is getting the owner e-mail for some reason I can't figure
out. There are only two places (admin & Moderator) and He is not there. He
gets the request and the confirmation of the subscription.

Where do I look?

Help!


Charles



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 27 02:47:17 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:47:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual-domain support?
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20060126192403.04a93428@127.0.0.1>
References: <6.1.2.0.2.20060126192403.04a93428@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <43D97BA5.8040907@yahoo.com>

Matt England wrote:
> I've been away from the list for a while, and am curious:
> 
> Will "virtual domains" support be included in Mailman 2.2...if they are not 
> already?
> 
> By "virtual domain" support I mean the ability to support email lists from 
> multiple domains via one GNUMailman installation on one server.  I manage 
> virtual-domain-based servers, and would love to not to have install a 
> different Mailman instance for every domain I support.  (Mailman remains 
> the only collaborative app I use--and I use a lot of them--which I deem not 
> sufficiently "virtual-domain" capable.)

I run multiple lists with Mailman, been doing so since v1.1 (or was it 
1.2?).  Anyway, virtual domains work for me.  What virtual domain 
problem do you have with recent MM versions?

-Jim P.


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 27 03:05:22 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 21:05:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <p0620074abfff0e4453e1@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0601261258300.14541@acns.fsu.edu>
	<p06200745bffedac040f3@[10.0.1.210]> <43D930E6.2060700@yahoo.com>
	<p06200748bffef8a542aa@[10.0.1.210]> <43D952FC.7000502@yahoo.com>
	<p0620074abfff0e4453e1@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <43D97FE2.4070202@yahoo.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> 
>     Fortunately, in this case it is a known issue (which others have 
> apparently decided to portray in a very different way), and which has 
> already been addressed (as described by Tokio).

OK, but what about the next one?   What do Mailman system admins do, wait?

-Jim P.







From mengland at mengland.net  Fri Jan 27 03:24:48 2006
From: mengland at mengland.net (Matt England)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:24:48 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual-domain support?
In-Reply-To: <43D97BA5.8040907@yahoo.com>
References: <6.1.2.0.2.20060126192403.04a93428@127.0.0.1>
	<43D97BA5.8040907@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20060126202310.06eeab28@127.0.0.1>

At 1/26/2006 07:47 PM, Jim Popovitch wrote:
>I run multiple lists with Mailman, been doing so since v1.1 (or was it 
>1.2?).  Anyway, virtual domains work for me.  What virtual domain problem 
>do you have with recent MM versions?

mylist at domain1.com and mylist at domain2.com (ie, same list name, different 
domains, different lists/reflectors) will not work for the same Mailman 
server...or at least, so I'm told.

-Matt



From carbonnb at gmail.com  Fri Jan 27 03:31:12 2006
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 21:31:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MMDSR was Re:  any info on this reported exploit?
Message-ID: <e04a6c920601261831u70ee6605j@mail.gmail.com>

On 26/01/06, Tokio Kikuchi <tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp> wrote:

> Brad Knowls' Daily Status Report should help in this respect.  I really
> want to rewrite it in python and include in the official cron jobs (if I
> had enough time before the next release of mailman 2.2).

Tokio,

I'll take a stab at rewriting it in Python. I can't promise anything,
but I'll take a shot at it.

I'm no expert Python coder, aw who's kidding who, I've just started to
learn Python, but I'll give it a go. Give you time to work on Mailman
2.2.

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 27 04:09:54 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 22:09:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual-domain support?
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20060126202310.06eeab28@127.0.0.1>
References: <6.1.2.0.2.20060126192403.04a93428@127.0.0.1>
	<43D97BA5.8040907@yahoo.com>
	<6.1.2.0.2.20060126202310.06eeab28@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <43D98F02.7090900@yahoo.com>

Matt England wrote:
> At 1/26/2006 07:47 PM, Jim Popovitch wrote:
>> I run multiple lists with Mailman, been doing so since v1.1 (or was it 
>> 1.2?).  Anyway, virtual domains work for me.  What virtual domain 
>> problem do you have with recent MM versions?
> 
> mylist at domain1.com and mylist at domain2.com (ie, same list name, different 
> domains, different lists/reflectors) will not work for the same Mailman 
> server...or at least, so I'm told.

That depends on a few things.  For starters, does your MTA support 
list at domain1.com AND list at domain2.com?  If it does, then you will need 
to use the virtualization features of your MTA to map each list to a 
unique local email account.  I.E.: in sendmail this would be the 
virtusertable where you would map list at domain1.com to "list-a" and 
list at domain2.com to "list-b".  Your sendmail aliases file would then 
contain entires like this:
  list-a:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post list-a"
  list-a-admin:  "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin list-a"
  list-b:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post list-b"
  list-b-admin:  "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin list-b"

Additionally, using virtualization features of your MTA, you need to 
change sender (outbound) addresses so that email from list-a appears as 
coming from list-bounces at domain1.com not list-a-bounces at domain1.com.  In 
sendmail this is done in genericstable.

At this point you can change each Mailman list settings so that emails 
aesthetically appear as from LIST instead of LIST-A or LIST-B (subject 
line, footer, subscription notice, etc).

The real visible issue may arise in URLs that users will use (i.e. 
http://<server>/mailman/list).  You will need to configure your 
webserver to redirect http://domain1.com/mailman/list to 
http://domain1.com/mailman/list-a  AND http://domain2.com/mailman/list 
to redirect to http://domain2.com/mailman/list-b.  I suppose you could 
also use proxy features of Apache to proxy 
http://domain2.com/mailman/list-b as http://domain2.com/mailman/list and 
the same for list-a.  Shouldn't be too difficult.

NONE of the above will ever completely hide the real list name from 
email headers, but who really looks at those these days?  :-)

Hth,

-Jim P.




From mengland at mengland.net  Fri Jan 27 04:29:31 2006
From: mengland at mengland.net (Matt England)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 21:29:31 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual-domain support?
In-Reply-To: <43D98F02.7090900@yahoo.com>
References: <6.1.2.0.2.20060126192403.04a93428@127.0.0.1>
	<43D97BA5.8040907@yahoo.com>
	<6.1.2.0.2.20060126202310.06eeab28@127.0.0.1>
	<43D98F02.7090900@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20060126212322.06d72870@127.0.0.1>

At 1/26/2006 09:09 PM, Jim Popovitch wrote:

>That depends on a few things.  For starters, does your MTA support 
>list at domain1.com AND list at domain2.com?

Yes.

>If it does, then you will need to use the virtualization features of your 
>MTA to map each list to a unique local email account.

Already done.  vpopmail in qmail already has several different virtual 
domains running.

>I.E.: in sendmail this would be the virtusertable where you would map 
>list at domain1.com to "list-a" and list at domain2.com to "list-b".  Your 
>sendmail aliases file would then contain entires like this:
>  list-a:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post list-a"
>  list-a-admin:  "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin list-a"
>  list-b:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post list-b"
>  list-b-admin:  "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin list-b"

sendmail.  ** shudder **

[... rest of stuff deleted, not sure why we are talking about an MTA if 
it's a Mailman problem ...but yes, I know how to get my MTA to do this...]

There's a sourceforge task/patch/faq somewhere talking about how this can 
be solved, but it required virtual-domain support.

>At this point you can change each Mailman list settings so that emails 
>aesthetically appear as from LIST instead of LIST-A or LIST-B (subject 
>line, footer, subscription notice, etc).
>
>The real visible issue may arise in URLs that users will use (i.e. 
>http://<server>/mailman/list).  You will need to configure your webserver 
>to redirect http://domain1.com/mailman/list to 
>http://domain1.com/mailman/list-a  AND http://domain2.com/mailman/list to 
>redirect to http://domain2.com/mailman/list-b.  I suppose you could also 
>use proxy features of Apache to proxy http://domain2.com/mailman/list-b as 
>http://domain2.com/mailman/list and the same for list-a.  Shouldn't be too 
>difficult.

I don't think I follow.  Why do I need to use different listnames?  TO BE 
CLEAR: I want Mailman changed to handle the virtual domains....so that I do 
NOT have to bend over backwards to do all the above stuff.

And yes, I'm already managing all the virtual domains in Apache.

>NONE of the above will ever completely hide the real list name from email 
>headers, but who really looks at those these days?  :-)

The point is: the REAL list name is associated with a domain, and list 
names are no longer represented without their domain name...if an 
appropriate fix is made...I hope.  That's the point.  We don't have to make 
any "non-real" list names.

I don't want to hodge-podge Mailman.  I want Mailman fixed to support this.

Maybe I'm not understanding what your saying, Jim?  Possibly vice versa?

-Matt 



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 27 04:42:13 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 22:42:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual-domain support?
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20060126212322.06d72870@127.0.0.1>
References: <6.1.2.0.2.20060126192403.04a93428@127.0.0.1>
	<43D97BA5.8040907@yahoo.com>
	<6.1.2.0.2.20060126202310.06eeab28@127.0.0.1>
	<43D98F02.7090900@yahoo.com>
	<6.1.2.0.2.20060126212322.06d72870@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <43D99695.2000607@yahoo.com>

Matt England wrote:
> 
> sendmail.  ** shudder **

Hey, no shudder here.  I fully understand Sendmail, it works well and I
sleep good at night. YMMV.

> [... rest of stuff deleted, not sure why we are talking about an MTA
> if it's a Mailman problem ...but yes, I know how to get my MTA to do
> this...]

I mentioned the MTA because that is the crux of most peoples
virtualization problems.  Indeed 90% of using Mailman, with virtual
domains, involves MTA config.

> There's a sourceforge task/patch/faq somewhere talking about how this
>  can be solved, but it required virtual-domain support.

Not sure what you are talking about here?  Got URL?

> 
>> At this point you can change each Mailman list settings so that
>> emails aesthetically appear as from LIST instead of LIST-A or
>> LIST-B (subject line, footer, subscription notice, etc).
>> 
>> The real visible issue may arise in URLs that users will use (i.e.
>>  http://<server>/mailman/list).  You will need to configure your 
>> webserver to redirect http://domain1.com/mailman/list to 
>> http://domain1.com/mailman/list-a  AND
>> http://domain2.com/mailman/list to redirect to
>> http://domain2.com/mailman/list-b.  I suppose you could also use
>> proxy features of Apache to proxy http://domain2.com/mailman/list-b
>> as http://domain2.com/mailman/list and the same for list-a.
>> Shouldn't be too difficult.
> 
> I don't think I follow.  Why do I need to use different listnames?
> TO BE CLEAR: I want Mailman changed to handle the virtual
> domains....so that I do NOT have to bend over backwards to do all the
> above stuff.

Mailman stores list specific info in files names after each list.
Therefore you can not have 2 identically named lists in Mailman.

[snip]
> I don't want to hodge-podge Mailman.  I want Mailman fixed to support
> this.

It's not something that can be "fixed" in Mailman.  Somethings in life 
are unique, Mailman's list names are one of those things.  Changing 
Mailman to support 2 lists of the same name, would be akin to having a 
Linux server that supported 2 identical usernames (even though the MTA 
on that server supports virtual domains).  It just isn't possible, and 
probably won't ever be due to the number of things that would have to be 
changed to support this.

-Jim P.





From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan 27 04:43:20 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 19:43:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual-domain support?
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20060126202310.06eeab28@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <PC17402006012619432000939e40c9b1@msapiro>

Matt England wrote:
>
>mylist at domain1.com and mylist at domain2.com (ie, same list name, different 
>domains, different lists/reflectors) will not work for the same Mailman 
>server...or at least, so I'm told.

You are correct, at least as far as the standard 2.1.x distribution is
concerned. There are some patches around. See
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=943827&group_id=103&atid=300103>.
There is also a link to cPanel's patches at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-January/041748.html>.
But reports from people who've tried these suggest that they may be an
incomplete solution at best, and may not work at all.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From carbonnb at gmail.com  Fri Jan 27 04:44:31 2006
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 22:44:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Determine List Bandwidth
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006012211194600627523ee8c@msapiro>
References: <e04a6c920601221027t44eb936cn@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006012211194600627523ee8c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <e04a6c920601261944s4cc772acy@mail.gmail.com>

On 22/01/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> >Also, is there someplace on Sourceforge that I can post this, so that
> >everyone can "enjoy" it too?
>
> You can post it to the Mailman patches tracker. See

I have now posted this file to the patch tracker
[ 1415961 ] List bandwidth monitor
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1415961&group_id=103&atid=300103

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"


From carbonnb at gmail.com  Fri Jan 27 04:49:32 2006
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 22:49:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sitewide headers/footers & XHTML Compliant Web UI
Message-ID: <e04a6c920601261949y3c77bcb8u@mail.gmail.com>

i have just uploaded a patch to Sourforge that allows you to set
sitewide headers and footers for the Mailman 2.1.7 web UI,
[ 1415956 ] Sitewide headers/footers & XHTML Compliant Web UI

This patch was borne out of a request I received to
make the Mailman UI fit the look of the web site. This
patch allows you to set a site wide header and footer.
This allows you to pretty much make the MM UI look like
any other site. While I was at it I also made the web
UI XHTML compliant.

Once you patch your source and install it, all you need
to do is edit the html files in the templates/en
directory. Most of the pages will get the header and
footers from the site-header.html and site-footer.html
files, but some of the HTML files already contain theor
own header/footer so you will need ot edit some of
these files as well.

Since this also adds XHTML compliance, this superceeds
patch #116035

You can dowload it (and a separate version that works with the
ht://dig integration patches) from:

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1415956&group_id=103&atid=300103

You can see in use at http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan 27 04:56:37 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 19:56:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <43D97FE2.4070202@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601261956370671540c7a64@msapiro>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
>
>OK, but what about the next one?   What do Mailman system admins do, wait?

Yes, I think so. The alternative is everyone goes off half-cocked and
you have a situation such as occurred about a year ago with the
CAN-2005-0202 issue <http://www.list.org/security.html>. In this case,
someone developed a patch which SuSE pushed out through their
automatic update process, but the patch was dependent on a part of the
Python library that SuSE didn't install by default and the dependency
wasn't noted. This caused a lot of grief at the time. See
<http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Amail.python.org++inurl%3Amailman-users+suse+sax>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mengland at mengland.net  Fri Jan 27 05:06:40 2006
From: mengland at mengland.net (Matt England)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 22:06:40 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual-domain support?
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006012619432000939e40c9b1@msapiro>
References: <6.1.2.0.2.20060126202310.06eeab28@127.0.0.1>
	<PC17402006012619432000939e40c9b1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20060126220408.06dab8f0@127.0.0.1>

At 1/26/2006 09:43 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>There are some patches around. See
><http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=943827&group_id=103&atid=300103>.
>There is also a link to cPanel's patches at
><http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-January/041748.html>.
>But reports from people who've tried these suggest that they may be an
>incomplete solution at best, and may not work at all.

Ok, thanks.

So the question is:  is there any move afoot to change Mailman to support 
same list names across multiple domains?

Why can't Mailman index it's list names such that the domain name is 
associated with the internal list name...thus allowing for the internal 
structure to have the same list name for different domains?

I suspect the answer:  it's hard because that support was not build into 
the architecture.  And that's a fine answer for me.

The followup question (assuming the above answer...which may or may not be 
a fair assumption):  will this architecture ever be changed to remove this 
limitation?

-Matt



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan 27 05:38:31 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:38:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual-domain support?
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20060126220408.06dab8f0@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601262038310765540c7abc@msapiro>

Matt England wrote:
>
>So the question is:  is there any move afoot to change Mailman to support 
>same list names across multiple domains?


Yes. See <http://www.list.org/todo.html>.


>Why can't Mailman index it's list names such that the domain name is 
>associated with the internal list name...thus allowing for the internal 
>structure to have the same list name for different domains?


No reason. That's kind of what the patches I referred to in my earlier
post do. I think the patches work by appending the virtual domain to
the list name for internal purposes. It could also be done by adding a
directory level, i.e. instead of lists/name/ use lists/domain/name/
and similarly for archives.


>I suspect the answer:  it's hard because that support was not build into 
>the architecture.  And that's a fine answer for me.


I think it's hard because it's hard to get it right everywhere, and the
patches that are out there perhaps address everything that was
important to someone, but not everything that could be important to
anyone.

The other issue is MTA related in that mail to list at one.domain has to
be delivered to Mailman in a way that it can be distinguished from
mail to list at other.domain. I don't know enough about various MTAs to
know how or even if this can be done with all MTAs.


>The followup question (assuming the above answer...which may or may not be 
>a fair assumption):  will this architecture ever be changed to remove this 
>limitation?


Yes again. I think you'll see it in Mailman 3, but as I'm sure you well
know, I can't give you a timeline for that except to say that it isn't
imminent.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan 27 05:52:36 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:52:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] An interesting problem 2.1.6
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAJQ0nI3Qft0+nbxUwgjQeksKAAAAQAAAA+78SEyg/Z0+PV6Z+B1xYkQEAAAAA@att.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402006012620523605936cc2f095@msapiro>

Charles M. Owen wrote:

>One of my users is getting the owner e-mail for some reason I can't figure
>out. There are only two places (admin & Moderator) and He is not there. He
>gets the request and the confirmation of the subscription.
>
>Where do I look?

Generally, internally generated Mailman owner notifications are sent to
list-owner at example.com and only after being received at that address
are they resent to the admin and moderator addresses.

So check what the MTA is doing with the list-owner address (aliases,
something else?).

Also check Mailman's smtp log. You'll normally see two entries with the
same message id. The first for 1 recipient (the mail to list-owner)
and the second perhaps a couple of seconds later for 'n' recipients
which will tell you how many admins/moderators it is sent to.

If you send mail directly to list-owner at example.com, does he get it?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mengland at mengland.net  Fri Jan 27 06:20:50 2006
From: mengland at mengland.net (Matt England)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 23:20:50 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual-domain support?
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601262038310765540c7abc@msapiro>
References: <6.1.2.0.2.20060126220408.06dab8f0@127.0.0.1>
	<PC1740200601262038310765540c7abc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20060126232002.070cacd0@127.0.0.1>

At 1/26/2006 10:38 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >The followup question (assuming the above answer...which may or may not be
> >a fair assumption):  will this architecture ever be changed to remove this
> >limitation?
>
>Yes again. I think you'll see it in Mailman 3, but as I'm sure you well
>know, I can't give you a timeline for that except to say that it isn't
>imminent.

Ok, good.  All my questions answered.  Thanks!  Best of luck with revs 2.2 
and eventually 3.

-Matt 



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 27 07:00:51 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 01:00:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601261956370671540c7a64@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200601261956370671540c7a64@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43D9B713.4000506@yahoo.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Jim Popovitch wrote:
>> OK, but what about the next one?   What do Mailman system admins do, wait?
> 
> Yes, I think so. The alternative is everyone goes off half-cocked and
> you have a situation such as occurred about a year ago with the
> CAN-2005-0202 issue <http://www.list.org/security.html>. In this case,
> someone developed a patch which SuSE pushed out through their
> automatic update process, but the patch was dependent on a part of the
> Python library that SuSE didn't install by default and the dependency
> wasn't noted. This caused a lot of grief at the time. See
> <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Amail.python.org++inurl%3Amailman-users+suse+sax>.

OK, so that is just one example (ok, I'm sure their might be others). 
HOWEVER, that example smells of BAD TESTING, not a bad solution.  Shame 
on Suse (or whoever).  The problem wasn't a Mailman problem, in fact I 
think Mailman developers (or someone) should be congratulated for 
getting a fix out there rather than sitting on it.  I'm pretty sure that 
the "insiders" fix their systems first, then tell the rest of us about 
the patch, probably at the last minute possible.  I challenge everyone 
on mailman-secure (or whatever list it is) to NOT touch your public 
Mailman systems until you notify mailman-users of the solution to the 
next vulnerability.  Deal?

-Jim P.






From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan 27 07:24:18 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 22:24:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman problem after 2.1.5 -> 2.1.7 update
In-Reply-To: <f06230905bffebaabd1ca@[130.83.186.53]>
Message-ID: <PC17402006012622241805466cc2f054@msapiro>

Hauke Fath wrote:
>
>Basically, both the .../mailman/listinfo and .../mailman/admin pages
>have the URLs to the existing mailing lists wrong. They look like
>
><a href="https://www.spg.tu-darmstadt.de/mailman/listinfo""/rt2-praktikum"><strong>RT2-Praktikum</strong></a></td>
>
>-- note the extra pair of quotes between the base URL and the list
>name. Browsers ignore the part after the quote pair.
>
>I haven't found a way of tweaking this and assume that the list URLs =
>
>are made up dynamically by the cgi script (rather, binary).

The URLs are made dynamically, but not by the binary wrapper. They are
made by the scripts Mailman/Cgi/admin.py and Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py.

This doesn't seem to be a DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN or list web_page_url
attribute problem. If it were the extra quotes would be between
'mailman' and 'listinfo', not between 'listinfo' and the list name.

The code that makes the
https://www.spg.tu-darmstadt.de/mailman/listinfo part of the URL is
the ScriptURL() function in Mailman/Utils.py and the code that puts it
together with the list name is the GetScriptURL() method in
Mailman/MailList.py, and various methods in Mailman/htmlformat.py make
the actual link, but I don't see anything in this that would add
quotes other than the ones around the whole URL.

I'm puzzled, but perhaps you can look at the specific areas I mention
and see that there's something strange in your version.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Jan 27 10:52:22 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:52:22 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <43D9B713.4000506@yahoo.com>
References: <PC1740200601261956370671540c7a64@msapiro>
	<43D9B713.4000506@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06200750bfff9c4b9db6@[10.0.1.210]>

At 1:00 AM -0500 2006-01-27, Jim Popovitch wrote:

>                                              I'm pretty sure that the
>  "insiders" fix their systems first, then tell the rest of us about the
>  patch, probably at the last minute possible.

	The "insiders" here are people like Barry, Tokio, and Mark.  I 
can't speak for what they do on their personal systems, but my 
recollection is that python.org wasn't updated until the patch was 
publicly available.  And even I don't have access to their internal 
discussions regarding such matters.

	So, you're no worse off than I am.

>                                                I challenge everyone on
>  mailman-secure (or whatever list it is) to NOT touch your public
>  Mailman systems until you notify mailman-users of the solution to the
>  next vulnerability.  Deal?

	They do have to do their development somewhere, right?  I mean, 
you give them that much, I hope.  And they do need to do at least 
some minimal testing on a live production system before they release 
that to the public, right?  I mean, you wouldn't want to try using 
something that had never been tested anywhere, would you?


	There is a QA process that such patches need to go through, even 
if we're talking about a bug that is being currently being exploited 
widely.

	In fact, the more it's being exploited, and the more dangerous it 
is, I think the more testing needs to be done to make sure that it's 
caught and completely dealt with, and there aren't any unintended 
consequences.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Jan 27 10:41:35 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:41:35 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <43D97FE2.4070202@yahoo.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0601261258300.14541@acns.fsu.edu>
	<p06200745bffedac040f3@[10.0.1.210]> <43D930E6.2060700@yahoo.com>
	<p06200748bffef8a542aa@[10.0.1.210]> <43D952FC.7000502@yahoo.com>
	<p0620074abfff0e4453e1@[10.0.1.210]> <43D97FE2.4070202@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p0620074fbfff9b2157ff@[10.0.1.210]>

At 9:05 PM -0500 2006-01-26, Jim Popovitch wrote:

>>      Fortunately, in this case it is a known issue (which others have
>>  apparently decided to portray in a very different way), and which has
>>  already been addressed (as described by Tokio).
>
>  OK, but what about the next one?   What do Mailman system admins do, wait?

	Unless you have the Python coding skills necessary to find such 
bugs, then I don't see that you (or I) have any other choice.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From hf at spg.tu-darmstadt.de  Fri Jan 27 11:11:54 2006
From: hf at spg.tu-darmstadt.de (Hauke Fath)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 11:11:54 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman problem after 2.1.5 -> 2.1.7  update
In-Reply-To: <p0620073ebffec00fff61@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <f06230905bffebaabd1ca@[130.83.186.53]>
	<p0620073ebffec00fff61@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <f06230900bfffa1da2bef@[130.83.186.53]>

Am 26.01.2006 um 19:06 Uhr +0100 schrieb Brad Knowles:
>At 6:46 PM +0100 2006-01-26, Hauke Fath wrote:
>
>>  I haven't found a way of tweaking this and assume that the list URLs
>>  are made up dynamically by the cgi script (rather, binary).
>>
>>  Does anybody else see this? Any pointers?
>
>	The URLs are probably messed up in your mm_cfg.py (mailman 
>configuration) file.  Try posting the contents of that file.

[...]

###############################################
# Here's where we get the distributed defaults.

from Defaults import *

##################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.

# IMPORTANT: Edit the following two definitions to provide the domain
# name of your mail lists, and host name of the Web server.
# (Leave the add_virtualhost line alone.)
#
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'spg.tu-darmstadt.de'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.spg.tu-darmstadt.de'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'https://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'


--  note that the file was not changed since before the update:

[hf at bounce] /<3>mailman/Mailman > ls -l mm_cfg.py
-rw-rw-r--  1 root  mailman  2088 Oct  8  2004 mm_cfg.py

	hauke

-- 
/~\  The ASCII Ribbon Campaign                    Hauke Fath
\ /    No HTML/RTF in email	        Institut f?r Nachrichtentechnik
  X     No Word docs in email	                  TU Darmstadt
/ \  Respect for open standards              Ruf +49-6151-16-3281


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 27 11:25:08 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 05:25:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <p06200750bfff9c4b9db6@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <PC1740200601261956370671540c7a64@msapiro>
	<43D9B713.4000506@yahoo.com> <p06200750bfff9c4b9db6@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <43D9F504.1070500@yahoo.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> 
>     There is a QA process that such patches need to go through, even if 
> we're talking about a bug that is being currently being exploited widely.
> 
>     In fact, the more it's being exploited, and the more dangerous it 
> is, I think the more testing needs to be done to make sure that it's 
> caught and completely dealt with, and there aren't any unintended 
> consequences.

I guess we just see system administration from different angles, I 
prefer communication to silence.  Here is the scenario that I'd like to 
see for the next "gotcha":

Barry/Tokio/Mark:  Folks, yesterday we were informed of a serious (i.e. 
potential for data loss) issue with MM 2.1.5+.  The "team" will need a 
few days to sort through this and to come back with some recommendations 
for securing your systems.  Secondly, the "team" will try and produce a 
patch in 2 weeks time.

Users:  Great, glad to hear this Barry.  Thank you for your hard 
dedicated work.  Please keep us informed of what we can do to help.

day+=2:

Barry/Tokio/Mark:  It looks like this vulnerability is leveraging a 
(unmentioned) py file.  Can users please send us logs showing 
failed/complete/erroneous attempts to access py files in your systems?

Users:  Great, thanks again Barry, glad we can help.

day++:

Barry/Tokio/Mark:  OK folks, thanks for being patient with us.  Here's 
what you need to do right now:  If you use Apache, add a mod_rewrite 
entry to
prevent access to xyz.py.  Also, chmod abc.py to only allow cgi-user 
access (not the normal mailman user), blah, blah, blah...  Finally, 
please change your site-wide password, and all moderator passwords ASAP.

Users:  Great Barry.  Thanks again for the speedy assistance.

day+=10

Barry/Tokio/Mark:  Today we are releasing patches for MM 2.1.5, 2.1.6, 
and 2.1.7 that admins need to apply to their systems.  Note: assuming 
you have taken our prior advice there is no need to rush and apply these 
patches.  Having said that, if you do see entry "blah" in your mailman 
mischief log then we recommend that you apply this patch ASAP.

Users:  Excellent, Thank you again Barry.

Two, three, or four days latter, after "planned outage" notices are sent 
out and tests have been performed on test systems, people can upgrade 
their systems with confidence and sanity while working around holidays, 
sporting events, vacations, etc.

Somebody please tell me what is wrong with that level of communication 
on vulnerability/security issues.

-Jim P.  (seeking nirvana)







From ldb at freestandards.org  Fri Jan 27 13:54:48 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 07:54:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
Message-ID: <43DA1818.9050104@freestandards.org>

Team:

I have some issues with my mailing list.

I have users subscribe to a list but yet I always have to approve their posts 
for some reason. And when I do have it accept this address for future posts, it 
still emails me to apporove it. Any ideas???


Thanks,

LDB



From itp1 at nysernet.org  Fri Jan 27 15:19:20 2006
From: itp1 at nysernet.org (IT Purchases)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 09:19:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Makeshift backup mailman server - are there
 unforseen probs with this?
In-Reply-To: <43DA1818.9050104@freestandards.org>
References: <43DA1818.9050104@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20060127090807.04006100@nysernet.org>


I seemed to finally get a decent backup for mailman going.

It's not super slick or anything but seems to work pretty decently, but
you can never be too sure or ask enough questions when it comes to stuff
like this....so any feed back would be appreciated.

We are running two linux debian servers, one in City1 and the other in
City2.  Each night I copy over any CHANGED files in the /var/lib/mailman
directory.  I do NOT copy /usr/lib/mailman.

This works fairly well it seems.  We did a test and moved our mailman website
to the other server (the website has been made redundant in city2) 
and everything
seemed to line up just fine.

I wasn't able to send test messages to all the lists (we can have this!).  So
my tests are conclusive.  But all the unprocessed messages came over with it
and were released from the queue on the redundant server.

Does anyone see problems with this method backing up mailman?  We'll be doing a
full systems test in the spring and I need to know my mailman server 
isn't going
to break this way and if it does, what I'll need to do to make it work once
we switch to the other server.

Thanks in advance,

Aaron
   ~



From reemajamil at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 27 15:46:18 2006
From: reemajamil at yahoo.com (reema jamil)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 06:46:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archive is not available
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1138372244.11689.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <20060127144618.52413.qmail@web51411.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello 
   
  I have newly joined this list. These days I am working on a project that is using mail man on linux. But I am facing a problem here. The messeges I am sending to my mailing list are not available in my lists archive. Kindly help me in solving this problem.

		
---------------------------------
Bring words and photos together (easily) with
 PhotoMail  - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.

From AriMR at bear.com  Fri Jan 27 15:37:18 2006
From: AriMR at bear.com (Rabinowitz, Ari (Exchange))
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 09:37:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Postfix and default mailbox
Message-ID: <B6CD839DDAAA9A4692892E49A938BB0504099BB0@whexchmb01.bsna.bsroot.bear.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthias Leonhardt
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:12 PM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Postfix and default mailbox
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> I have a working mailman and postfix installation.
> in my postfix config I have a virtual user alias for my domain which
> allows me to get all mail which has no explicit EMail-Box goes to one
> default box
> *@mydomain.com    ->  mailbox1
> this is configured in the postfix virtual_maps directive in main.cf

You need to have another entry in your virtual map which maps mylist at mydomain.com to a local address (one which is in mydestinations in Postfix).  Usually you would put in something like:

mylist at mydomain.com	mylist at localhost

and then have an entry for mylist in the alias map sending the list name to the Mailman scripts.

Remember that you will also need to do this for the other "aliases" which Mailman needs for a list, which varies depending on the version of Mailman which you are using.

> 
> now I have a mailinglist
> mylist at mydomain.com  |mailman
> which is configured in the postfix alias_maps directive in main.cf
> The mailing list only works if I disable the default virtual 
> mailbox entry.

Remember to put in the entries, in the virtual map and the alias map, for the other aliases which Mailman needs.

> So how can I get this work together? It should be working if postfix
> first looks into the alias table instead of virtual_maps.

I hope this helps,
Ari Rabinowitz, one of the Email postmasters at Bear Stearns

  


***********************************************************************
Bear Stearns is not responsible for any recommendation, solicitation, 
offer or agreement or any information about any transaction, customer 
account or account activity contained in this communication.
***********************************************************************



From ml at mleo.net  Fri Jan 27 16:03:09 2006
From: ml at mleo.net (Matthias Leonhardt)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 16:03:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Postfix and default mailbox
In-Reply-To: <B6CD839DDAAA9A4692892E49A938BB0504099BB0@whexchmb01.bsna.bsroot.bear.com>
References: <B6CD839DDAAA9A4692892E49A938BB0504099BB0@whexchmb01.bsna.bsroot.bear.com>
Message-ID: <43DA362D.1090006@mleo.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hello Ari,

> mylist at mydomain.com	mylist at localhost
well - that did it! I inserted a virtual map entry to forward the
mailinglist to another locally hosted domain without a default mailbox -
so mailman gets the mail in the end.

Thanks for your hint.

kind regards,
Matthias Leonhardt

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFD2jYt0PAecDwsKOERAhxYAKDVZ/4vuKM8d3VjgIg0FSytxqMEtwCeOGsT
nMMIo+j7LRWxOaoEFMBmFvI=
=DTQF
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From davide at davide.galletti.name  Fri Jan 27 17:41:55 2006
From: davide at davide.galletti.name (Davide Galletti)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 17:41:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] troubles with multiple installations on the same
	machine
Message-ID: <43DA4D53.9050905@davide.galletti.name>

Hi all,

I am having troubles installing more than one instance on the same LINUX 
FEDORA CORE 2 box.
The need arises from having to manage lists for more than one domain 
(e.g. abitipuliti.org liste.cnms.it  swazitalia.org ...)
I understand that installing multiple instances is the best choiche ... 
am I right?
(FAQ: "Multiple installations on the same machine can be used to avoid 
the list naming restrictions"
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.047.htp
I accurately ( I hope ) followed the instructions on:
    http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/index.html

The 1st instance for abitipuliti.org works just fine
On the 2nd and 3rd for liste.cnms.it and swazitalia.org I get some
PROBLEMS:

When I fill in the form on
 - http://liste.cnms.it/mailman/create    (2nd)
and on
 - http://swazitalia.org/mailman/create (3rd)
I get


      *Error: /Unknown virtual host: liste.cnms.it/*

*Error: /Unknown virtual host: swazitalia.org/*
On both forms it will accept as "List creator's (authentication) 
password"  the password of the 1st instance!!
Also some URLs point erroneusly from 2nd or 3nd web interface to 1st domain.

If I create the list from the command line I get the  notification of 
the new list but  when  click to the URL
http://swazitalia.org/mailman/admin/test
I get:  No such list /test/


CONFIGURATION:
 >>>>>>>>>1st instance for abitipuliti.org 2.1.4
 $prefix = /var/mailman

 Apache httpd.conf
 <VirtualHost *:80>
  ServerName abitipuliti.org
  ProxyVia on
  ScriptAlias /mailman/* /var/mailman/cgi-bin/*
  Alias /pipermail/ /var/mailman/archives/public/
 </VirtualHost>

 >>>>>>>>>2nd instance for liste.cnms.it 2.1.6
 $prefix = /data/mailman

 ./configure --prefix=/data/mailman --with-cgi-gid=apache 
--with-mailhost=liste.cnms.it --with-urlhost=liste.cnms.it

 Apache httpd.conf
 <VirtualHost *:80>
  ServerName liste.cnms.it
  ProxyVia on
  ScriptAlias /mailman/* /data/mailman/cgi-bin/*
  Alias /pipermail/ /data/mailman/archives/public/
 </VirtualHost>


 >>>>>>>>>3rd instance for swazitalia.org 2.1.7
 $prefix = /data/mailmanswazitalia

 ./configure --prefix=/data/mailmanswazitalia --with-cgi-gid=apache 
--with-mailhost=swazitalia.org --with-urlhost=swazitalia.org

 Apache httpd.conf
 <VirtualHost *:80>
  DocumentRoot /data/www/swazitalia
  ServerName swazitalia.org
  ProxyVia on
  ScriptAlias /mailman/* /data/mailmanswazitalia/cgi-bin/*
  Alias /pipermail/ /data/mailmanswazitalia/archives/public/
 </VirtualHost>



Any hint?
Anything I can try to understand where is the configuration error?
Alternative configurations?

Thanks so much for your patience,

Davide



From Jeff.Edwards at ccci.org  Fri Jan 27 17:23:01 2006
From: Jeff.Edwards at ccci.org (Jeff Edwards)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 11:23:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Template
Message-ID: <BFFFB315.1A0D%Jeff.Edwards@ccci.org>

I'm working on customizing the Mailman archive templates. I'm customizing
the HTML and need to generate dynamic text based on the listname, but when I
add  a %(list_name)s in places, it doesn't get rendered dynamically. Instead
it shows up as %(list_name)s in the final HTML. How can I use the dynamic
tags in templates correctly?

And is there a guide anywhere explaining the templating system in detail?

Jeff Edwards
Software Developer
CCCI



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan 27 18:26:59 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 09:26:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Template
In-Reply-To: <BFFFB315.1A0D%Jeff.Edwards@ccci.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601270926590312ac102f93@msapiro>

Jeff Edwards wrote:

>I'm working on customizing the Mailman archive templates. I'm customizing
>the HTML and need to generate dynamic text based on the listname, but when I
>add  a %(list_name)s in places, it doesn't get rendered dynamically. Instead
>it shows up as %(list_name)s in the final HTML. How can I use the dynamic
>tags in templates correctly?


Templates are a hodge podge. In some cases you use %(xx)s replacement;
in others <mm-*> tags like <MM-List-Name>. Also, you can't just use
arbitrary names. Each template has an associated dictionary in the
code, so even if you are dealing with a template that uses %(name)s
replacements, %(list_name)s may not work in that particular template.


>And is there a guide anywhere explaining the templating system in detail?


No, but it's on my To Do list to write a FAQ for this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan 27 20:04:49 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 11:04:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <43DA1818.9050104@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601271104490906d5a7cbbb@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>
>I have users subscribe to a list but yet I always have to approve their posts 
>for some reason.


For what reason? Every hold has a reason, what is this one?


>And when I do have it accept this address for future posts, it 
>still emails me to apporove it. Any ideas???


The check box to accept future posts only applies to non-members.

I'm guessing that your new members are moderated because Privacy
options...->Sender filters->default_member_moderation is set to Yes.
If this is not what you want, set it to No and then on Membership
Management...->Membership List under Additional Member Tasks - "Set
everyone's moderation bit, including those members not currently
visible", select "No" and click "Set".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan 27 20:12:49 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 11:12:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archive is not available
In-Reply-To: <20060127144618.52413.qmail@web51411.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006012711124900318b7376b0@msapiro>

reema jamil wrote:
>   
>I am facing a problem here. The messeges I am sending to my mailing list are not available in my lists archive. Kindly help me in solving this problem.

Is 'archive' set to Yes on the admin Archiving Options page? Have you
set ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX to other than 2 in mm_cfg.py?

Do you mean the messages aren't being archived, or you are unable to
access the archive via the web?

What's in Mailman's 'error' log?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan 27 21:05:36 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:05:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Regenerate the archives index.html file
In-Reply-To: <ef6ab2dc0601260756x1027a74av582af246ea987e7a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006012712053605623f0c8636@msapiro>

Kyle Pinkley wrote:
>
>I am working with a server where some of the html pages got defaced via the
>"NeverEverNoSanity" (old) worm).  One of the pages that got defaced was the
>index.html page of one of the archives
>(/mailman/archives/public/list_name).  How can I  regenerate this file?

This file is automatically regenerated each time a post is archived.

If you can't wait for a post, run 'bin/arch --help'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Jan 27 21:26:29 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 05:26:29 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <43D9F504.1070500@yahoo.com> (Jim Popovitch's message of "Fri,
	27 Jan 2006 05:25:08 -0500")
References: <PC1740200601261956370671540c7a64@msapiro>
	<43D9B713.4000506@yahoo.com> <p06200750bfff9c4b9db6@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43D9F504.1070500@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8764o576yy.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Jim" == Jim Popovitch <jimpop at yahoo.com> writes:

    Jim> I guess we just see system administration from different
    Jim> angles, I prefer communication to silence.

Of course.  So does everybody.  Specifically, so do the crackers.

    Jim> Barry/Tokio/Mark: Folks, yesterday we were informed of a
    Jim> serious (i.e. potential for data loss) issue with MM 2.1.5+.

That's cheating, man.  A "potential for data loss" issue, as long as
it's possible to trigger in normal operation, gets announced
immediately.  What we're talking about here is a hostile agency that
is specifically out to get you, and is quite possibly listening to
your broadcasts.

    Jim> Somebody please tell me what is wrong with that level of
    Jim> communication on vulnerability/security issues.

1.  The scenario you describe is basically the process that will
happen according to the discussions that led up to the security FAQ.
In other words, mostly you've already got what you're asking for.

2.  Except for the initial broadcast that announces that there is now
a race between the hackers and the crackers, and how long the crackers
have to exploit the hole.  Whether you believe that is a reasonable
interpretation or not, many developers do, and they will respond to
such a leak by working harder on the problem, at the cost of their own
weekends, etc.  This did happen the last time there was a security
"announcement" by a third party on Mailman-Users; that's what prompted
the posting of the security FAQ.

3.  AFAIK none of the Mailman developers get paid for what they do.
How about *their* weekends and their regular jobs?

4.  Writing such memos is a non-trivial amount of effort.  And weekend
or not, I'm sure he'd rather be spending the time working on the fix.

5.  Security patches are asynchronous, like earthquakes, they happen
when they happen.  If the patch comes out on Friday at 4:45, I would
cancel that dinner date with my daughter.  Wouldn't you?  What
difference would notice on Tuesday that a patch is expected sometime
on Friday make to that decision, anyway?

In sum, I just don't see what benefit there is to the process you
outline relative to current policy.  The information doesn't make
anyone more secure (unless they're willing to shut down their systems
from announcement that "we're worried" until a workaround or fix is
available), communication with users will slow production of the fix
but won't reduce the variance on when it gets released, and it's a
non-negligible burden on the developers.


-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 27 21:41:54 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 15:41:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <8764o576yy.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <PC1740200601261956370671540c7a64@msapiro>	<43D9B713.4000506@yahoo.com>
	<p06200750bfff9c4b9db6@[10.0.1.210]>	<43D9F504.1070500@yahoo.com>
	<8764o576yy.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <43DA8592.1010304@yahoo.com>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> 
> 5.  Security patches are asynchronous, like earthquakes, they happen
>  when they happen.

Very bad analogy.  Hurricanes would be better.  There is plenty of
potential for user-base warning before a patch is to be released.

> If the patch comes out on Friday at 4:45, I would cancel that dinner 
> date with my daughter.  Wouldn't you?  What difference would notice 
> on Tuesday that a patch is expected sometime on Friday make to that 
> decision, anyway?

Your daughter would presumably rather know on Tuesday that her Friday
dinner with dad is canceled.  That way she could make other plans, etc. 
  Change "daughter" to "wife" and ask yourself how long your wife would 
remain if you kept canceling Friday dinner at the last minute.  Now look 
at it from a business standpoint and try and convince my customers that 
they should expect their service to be down at any point in time to do 
unplanned system upgrades.

> In sum, I just don't see what benefit there is to the process you 
> outline relative to current policy.  The information doesn't make 
> anyone more secure

No one is advocating that more info means more security.  More info just
means that users aren't the only ones in the dark.  If the hack is out
and the developers are working on it, who is left to inform... THE USERS
OF THE PRODUCT.  Why leave us in the dark?

> (unless they're willing to shut down their systems from announcement
> that "we're worried" until a workaround or fix is available)

That is an option that I reserve the right to make the decision on. 
Don't remove my capability to make that decision by hiding the info.

> communication with users will slow production of the fix but won't
> reduce the variance on when it gets released, and it's a 
> non-negligible burden on the developers.

I don't believe that one bit, certainly not in the scenario that I 
described.

-Jim P.





From cmowen at att.net  Fri Jan 27 21:54:01 2006
From: cmowen at att.net (Charles M. Owen)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 15:54:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation e-mail goes to user that is not admin
	or moderator
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAJQ0nI3Qft0+nbxUwgjQeksKAAAAQAAAA03dJh8B0SEOsucmKIXBeUwEAAAAA@att.net>

I have set up a list and all the emails that are going to the "owner" are
going to a person that is not on either the admin or moderator list.


Any idea why?


Using 2.1.6 Mailman

Charles



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Jan 27 21:55:18 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:55:18 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <43DA8592.1010304@yahoo.com>
References: <PC1740200601261956370671540c7a64@msapiro>
	<43D9B713.4000506@yahoo.com>	<p06200750bfff9c4b9db6@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43D9F504.1070500@yahoo.com>
	<8764o576yy.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DA8592.1010304@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06200756c00036e5da35@[10.0.1.210]>

At 3:41 PM -0500 2006-01-27, Jim Popovitch wrote:

>>  5.  Security patches are asynchronous, like earthquakes, they happen
>>   when they happen.
>
>  Very bad analogy.  Hurricanes would be better.  There is plenty of
>  potential for user-base warning before a patch is to be released.

	No, Stephen was right -- the model is Earthquakes.  We never know 
when we'll get a "security" announcement created by someone we've 
never heard of before, and where everyone has to stop everything 
they're doing (like their real job), to work 24x7 on figuring out 
what is actually happening, and then work to create a patch.  Then 
you have to test the patch and make sure it works as intended.

>  Your daughter would presumably rather know on Tuesday that her Friday
>  dinner with dad is canceled.

	That assumes that the boss doesn't tell Dad at 4:45pm on Friday 
afternoon that they just got a new security announcement dumped on 
them by an organization which no one had ever heard of before.

	That's what happens to us.

>                                That way she could make other plans, etc.
>    Change "daughter" to "wife" and ask yourself how long your wife would
>  remain if you kept canceling Friday dinner at the last minute.

	Right.  Now imagine the problem that Barry, Tokio, Mark, and 
others have when they get a new security announcement dumped on them.

>  No one is advocating that more info means more security.

	I violently disagree with the concept of security through 
obscurity.  That is one of my biggest hot buttons.

	However, there is a limit to how much information we can provide 
when we don't have the information ourselves.  And there is a limit 
to how fast we can provide what information we do have.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 27 21:58:09 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 15:58:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <p06200756c00036e5da35@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <PC1740200601261956370671540c7a64@msapiro>
	<43D9B713.4000506@yahoo.com>	<p06200750bfff9c4b9db6@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43D9F504.1070500@yahoo.com>
	<8764o576yy.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DA8592.1010304@yahoo.com> <p06200756c00036e5da35@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <43DA8961.1020406@yahoo.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 3:41 PM -0500 2006-01-27, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> 
>>>  5.  Security patches are asynchronous, like earthquakes, they happen
>>>   when they happen.
>>
>>  Very bad analogy.  Hurricanes would be better.  There is plenty of
>>  potential for user-base warning before a patch is to be released.
> 
>     No, Stephen was right -- the model is Earthquakes.  

No, Stephen specifically said "Security patches".  Patches don't 
materialize overnight and surprise *everyone*, sadly just the users.

-Jim P.





From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan 27 22:03:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 13:03:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation e-mail goes to user that is not
	adminor moderator
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAJQ0nI3Qft0+nbxUwgjQeksKAAAAQAAAA03dJh8B0SEOsucmKIXBeUwEAAAAA@att.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402006012713031601717b6ce85b@msapiro>

Charles M. Owen wrote:

>I have set up a list and all the emails that are going to the "owner" are
>going to a person that is not on either the admin or moderator list.
>
>
>Any idea why?


Did you see the reply to your prior post at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-January/048811.html>?


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From peter.russell at steamrail.co.uk  Fri Jan 27 21:27:38 2006
From: peter.russell at steamrail.co.uk (Peter Russell)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:27:38 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Domain problem with mailman
Message-ID: <000301c62380$20b1ff40$2201a8c0@theq5dx9bk42nt>

I just installed Mailman and it seemed to setup ok, until I tried to create 
a new list using the web interface.

I'm running Fedora Core 3 with all the correct versions of Sendmail, Python,

Apache and Mailman.

My machine name is server1.my.domain

My web page is www.my.domain

All email addrs are name at my.domain

DNS is set up for www.my.domain, mail.my.domain and

mail2.my.domain.

Sendmail is working fine.

Mailman wants to use mylist at server1.my.domain when it should be 
mylist at my.domain

Using the web interface, (http://www.my.domain/mailman), whichever option I 
select, it requests a page starting

Http://server1.my.domain......

If I manually change 'server1' to 'www' it works fine.

Anyone care to suggest where I've gone wrong?

Thanks.

Peter.





From jimpop at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 27 22:14:56 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 16:14:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <43DA8961.1020406@yahoo.com>
References: <PC1740200601261956370671540c7a64@msapiro>
	<43D9B713.4000506@yahoo.com>	<p06200750bfff9c4b9db6@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43D9F504.1070500@yahoo.com>
	<8764o576yy.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DA8592.1010304@yahoo.com> <p06200756c00036e5da35@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43DA8961.1020406@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43DA8D50.2030505@yahoo.com>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
> Brad Knowles wrote:
>> At 3:41 PM -0500 2006-01-27, Jim Popovitch wrote:
>>
>>>>  5.  Security patches are asynchronous, like earthquakes, they happen
>>>>   when they happen.
>>>
>>>  Very bad analogy.  Hurricanes would be better.  There is plenty of
>>>  potential for user-base warning before a patch is to be released.
>>
>>     No, Stephen was right -- the model is Earthquakes.  
> 
> No, Stephen specifically said "Security patches".  Patches don't 
> materialize overnight and surprise *everyone*, sadly just the users.
> 

Let me add that this whole issue is getting clouded by side comments 
unnecessarily.  No one is challenging the skill or capability of the MM 
developers, so there is no need to keep bringing up the pace/rate they 
work.  Secondly, no one is saying "give us the keys to the kingdom", 
what I am saying is please keep us informed about what is coming down 
the pipe.  I don't need specifics or details, just info I can use to 
plan/schedule.  Simply put, don't surprise us with patches/fixes 
(critical or not).  Nothing more, nothing less.

-Jim P.






From jimpop at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 27 22:18:46 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 16:18:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Domain problem with mailman
In-Reply-To: <000301c62380$20b1ff40$2201a8c0@theq5dx9bk42nt>
References: <000301c62380$20b1ff40$2201a8c0@theq5dx9bk42nt>
Message-ID: <43DA8E36.1050305@yahoo.com>

Peter Russell wrote:
> I just installed Mailman and it seemed to setup ok, until I tried to
> create a new list using the web interface.
> 
> I'm running Fedora Core 3 with all the correct versions of Sendmail,
> Python,
> 
> Apache and Mailman.
> 
> My machine name is server1.my.domain
> 
> My web page is www.my.domain
> 
> All email addrs are name at my.domain
> 
> DNS is set up for www.my.domain, mail.my.domain and
> 
> mail2.my.domain.
> 
> Sendmail is working fine.
> 
> Mailman wants to use mylist at server1.my.domain when it should be 
> mylist at my.domain
> 
> Using the web interface, (http://www.my.domain/mailman), whichever
> option I select, it requests a page starting
> 
> Http://server1.my.domain......
> 
> If I manually change 'server1' to 'www' it works fine.
> 
> Anyone care to suggest where I've gone wrong?
> 

Check your settings for DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST, DEFAULT_URL_HOST,
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN in mm_cfg.py.  Also, do you have any
add_virtualhost statements in mm_cfg?

-Jim P.



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan 27 22:22:00 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 13:22:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Domain problem with mailman
In-Reply-To: <000301c62380$20b1ff40$2201a8c0@theq5dx9bk42nt>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601271322000312acbc3578@msapiro>

Peter Russell wrote:

>Mailman wants to use mylist at server1.my.domain when it should be 
>mylist at my.domain
>
>Using the web interface, (http://www.my.domain/mailman), whichever option I 
>select, it requests a page starting
>
>Http://server1.my.domain......
>
>If I manually change 'server1' to 'www' it works fine.
>
>Anyone care to suggest where I've gone wrong?

You have (or had when you created the list) the wrong values for
DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST. The values you want are
'www.my.domain' and 'my.domain' respectively.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp>
for what to do and don't overlook the part about fix_url for existing
lists.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan 27 22:30:26 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 13:30:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation problems
In-Reply-To: <C262B8ECE515D348BF758C93F12F6F7602867E6C@KLMAIL.ad.kuntaliitto.fi>
Message-ID: <PC174020060127133026015625271ff6@msapiro>

Niemi Hannu wrote:
>
>> Is it only this list that fails? It is not likely a virtual
>> host problem as host really isn't involved in processing
>> confirmations.
>
>I had to test the others. To be honest I haven't earlier used this kind of
>"user-driven subscription" in any of the lists on that server, but have been adding the users on the web form instead.
>
>And the result is that (what was exactly what I was afraid of ;)) that at least the one I tested worked...
>
>What gives???


Check mailman's 'error' log and also permissions on the list's
pending.pck file.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jan 27 23:20:30 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 14:20:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] troubles with multiple installations on the
	samemachine
In-Reply-To: <43DA4D53.9050905@davide.galletti.name>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601271420300890daf2d138@msapiro>

Davide Galletti wrote:
>
>I am having troubles installing more than one instance on the same LINUX 
>FEDORA CORE 2 box.
>The need arises from having to manage lists for more than one domain 
>(e.g. abitipuliti.org liste.cnms.it  swazitalia.org ...)
>I understand that installing multiple instances is the best choiche ... 
>am I right?
>(FAQ: "Multiple installations on the same machine can be used to avoid 
>the list naming restrictions"
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.047.htp
>I accurately ( I hope ) followed the instructions on:
>    http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/index.html


Multiple instances may be the best choice if you want to be able to
have the same list name on more than one host. It you can live with
the restriction that all list names must be unique regardless of host,
then Mailman virtual hosts may be a better solution.


>The 1st instance for abitipuliti.org works just fine
>On the 2nd and 3rd for liste.cnms.it and swazitalia.org I get some
>PROBLEMS:
>
>When I fill in the form on
> - http://liste.cnms.it/mailman/create    (2nd)
>and on
> - http://swazitalia.org/mailman/create (3rd)
>I get
>
>
>      *Error: /Unknown virtual host: liste.cnms.it/*
>
>*Error: /Unknown virtual host: swazitalia.org/*
>On both forms it will accept as "List creator's (authentication) 
>password"  the password of the 1st instance!!


This is probably because all hosts are using the instance you intend to
be for abitipuliti.org, and none are using the others.


>Also some URLs point erroneusly from 2nd or 3nd web interface to 1st domain.


A consequence of the above.


>If I create the list from the command line I get the  notification of 
>the new list but  when  click to the URL
>http://swazitalia.org/mailman/admin/test
>I get:  No such list /test/


This is probably because you created the list in the
/data/mailmanswazitalia instance, but the web interface is looking
only at the /var/mailman instance.

See remarks following:


>CONFIGURATION:
> >>>>>>>>>1st instance for abitipuliti.org 2.1.4
> $prefix = /var/mailman
>
> Apache httpd.conf
> <VirtualHost *:80>
>  ServerName abitipuliti.org
>  ProxyVia on
>  ScriptAlias /mailman/* /var/mailman/cgi-bin/*
>  Alias /pipermail/ /var/mailman/archives/public/
> </VirtualHost>
>
> >>>>>>>>>2nd instance for liste.cnms.it 2.1.6
> $prefix = /data/mailman
>
> ./configure --prefix=/data/mailman --with-cgi-gid=apache 
>--with-mailhost=liste.cnms.it --with-urlhost=liste.cnms.it
>
> Apache httpd.conf
> <VirtualHost *:80>
>  ServerName liste.cnms.it
>  ProxyVia on
>  ScriptAlias /mailman/* /data/mailman/cgi-bin/*
>  Alias /pipermail/ /data/mailman/archives/public/
> </VirtualHost>
>
>
> >>>>>>>>>3rd instance for swazitalia.org 2.1.7
> $prefix = /data/mailmanswazitalia
>
> ./configure --prefix=/data/mailmanswazitalia --with-cgi-gid=apache 
>--with-mailhost=swazitalia.org --with-urlhost=swazitalia.org
>
> Apache httpd.conf
> <VirtualHost *:80>
>  DocumentRoot /data/www/swazitalia
>  ServerName swazitalia.org
>  ProxyVia on
>  ScriptAlias /mailman/* /data/mailmanswazitalia/cgi-bin/*
>  Alias /pipermail/ /data/mailmanswazitalia/archives/public/
> </VirtualHost>
>
>
>
>Any hint?


Since your virtual hosts seem to use the same IP address (at least the
ones I could look up), you need NameVirtualHost directives. See
<http://httpd.apache.org/docs/1.3/vhosts/name-based.html> or
<http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/vhosts/name-based.html> as
appropriate.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ldb at freestandards.org  Sat Jan 28 01:32:53 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:32:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601271104490906d5a7cbbb@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200601271104490906d5a7cbbb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43DABBB5.1070300@freestandards.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>> I have users subscribe to a list but yet I always have to approve their posts 
>> for some reason.
> 
> 
> For what reason? Every hold has a reason, what is this one?
> 
> 
>> And when I do have it accept this address for future posts, it 
>> still emails me to apporove it. Any ideas???
> 
> 
> The check box to accept future posts only applies to non-members.
> 
> I'm guessing that your new members are moderated because Privacy
> options...->Sender filters->default_member_moderation is set to Yes.
> If this is not what you want, set it to No and then on Membership
> Management...->Membership List under Additional Member Tasks - "Set
> everyone's moderation bit, including those members not currently
> visible", select "No" and click "Set".
> 

Thanks for replying.

That has already been done. There is something wrong.

Everyone is subscribed to the list as memebers and they are posting with the 
same email as on the membership list.

Has anyone seen this before. Very weird ...

LDB


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 28 01:39:58 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:39:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <43DABBB5.1070300@freestandards.org>
References: <PC1740200601271104490906d5a7cbbb@msapiro>
	<43DABBB5.1070300@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <43DABD5E.2060402@yahoo.com>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:
> 
> That has already been done. There is something wrong.
> 
> Everyone is subscribed to the list as memebers and they are posting with the 
> same email as on the membership list.
> 
> Has anyone seen this before. Very weird ...

I saw it today on a list for one person out of a thousand subscribers. 
I *think*, but I'm not 100% sure, that this subscriber was pending 
subscription approval during the upgrade from MM 2.1.5m to 2.1.6.  I'm 
pretty sure the upgrade notes recommend clearing all admin approvals 
before upgrading, however on my system a few issues slipped through 
during the upgrade window.

On your system is is more like one or two users or more like 90%?

Just curious,

-Jim P.





From ldb at freestandards.org  Sat Jan 28 02:10:08 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:10:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601271104490906d5a7cbbb@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200601271104490906d5a7cbbb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43DAC470.5070702@freestandards.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>> I have users subscribe to a list but yet I always have to approve their posts 
>> for some reason.
> 
> 
> For what reason? Every hold has a reason, what is this one?
> 
> 
>> And when I do have it accept this address for future posts, it 
>> still emails me to apporove it. Any ideas???
> 
> 
> The check box to accept future posts only applies to non-members.
> 
> I'm guessing that your new members are moderated because Privacy
> options...->Sender filters->default_member_moderation is set to Yes.
> If this is not what you want, set it to No and then on Membership
> Management...->Membership List under Additional Member Tasks - "Set
> everyone's moderation bit, including those members not currently
> visible", select "No" and click "Set".
> 

The next time someone posts I can give you that reason. :) So hang a while, please.

In the meantime, I have data in /var/lib/mailman/data/ starting with
heldmsg-*. Most of it, if not all is SPAM. I can safely get rid of it without 
adversely affecting the lists, right?

Thanks,

LDB


From ldb at freestandards.org  Sat Jan 28 02:13:13 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:13:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <43DAC470.5070702@freestandards.org>
References: <PC1740200601271104490906d5a7cbbb@msapiro>
	<43DAC470.5070702@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <43DAC529.3020805@freestandards.org>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>>> I have users subscribe to a list but yet I always have to approve their posts 
>>> for some reason.
>>
>> For what reason? Every hold has a reason, what is this one?
>>
>>
>>> And when I do have it accept this address for future posts, it 
>>> still emails me to apporove it. Any ideas???
>>
>> The check box to accept future posts only applies to non-members.
>>
>> I'm guessing that your new members are moderated because Privacy
>> options...->Sender filters->default_member_moderation is set to Yes.
>> If this is not what you want, set it to No and then on Membership
>> Management...->Membership List under Additional Member Tasks - "Set
>> everyone's moderation bit, including those members not currently
>> visible", select "No" and click "Set".
>>
> 
> The next time someone posts I can give you that reason. :) So hang a while, please.
> 
> In the meantime, I have data in /var/lib/mailman/data/ starting with
> heldmsg-*. Most of it, if not all is SPAM. I can safely get rid of it without 
> adversely affecting the lists, right?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> LDB
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ldb%40freestandards.org
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 

nevermind .. dumb question ..

LDB


From cmowen at att.net  Sat Jan 28 02:21:08 2006
From: cmowen at att.net (Charles M. Owen)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:21:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation e-mail goes to user that is not
	admin or moderator
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006012713031601717b6ce85b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAJQ0nI3Qft0+nbxUwgjQeksKAAAAQAAAA18KalpIYe0WoP6AZcjrrsQEAAAAA@att.net>

Sorry, I did miss it somehow. I will post against this topic, since it is
more appropriate.

I am an end-user of a rented server. I do not have access to mailman
directly. What is "MTA"?

I did discover three things. 

1) The person getting the unwanted message sent me a copy and it was to
<list>-owner@<example.com> from mailman-bounces@<example.com>  

2) When I added the list through the control panel, it automatically placed
a forwarder (only one) in the forwarder list:

owner-<list>@<example.com>  ==>>> <list>-admin@<example.com>  

2) Two people DID GET it that I did not expect and I found both addresses as
forwarded from the "Default Address Maintenance" where "All unrouted mail
will be sent".

SO... I get the message for being in the moderator field as I should and
they get it for unrouted mail. "<list>-owner" instead of "owner-<list>"
should be forwarded. This is my working theory!! I have an idea of this is
the course of action, but those more familiar can advise.

THUS... what do I need to do or get the provider to fix?

Charles

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+cmowen=att.net at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+cmowen=att.net at python.org] On Behalf Of Mark
Sapiro
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 4:03 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation e-mail goes to user that is
notadminor moderator

Charles M. Owen wrote:

>I have set up a list and all the emails that are going to the "owner" are
>going to a person that is not on either the admin or moderator list.
>
>
>Any idea why?


Did you see the reply to your prior post at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-January/048811.html>?


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

Charles M. Owen wrote:

>One of my users is getting the owner e-mail for some reason I can't figure
>out. There are only two places (admin & Moderator) and He is not there. He
>gets the request and the confirmation of the subscription.
>
>Where do I look?

Generally, internally generated Mailman owner notifications are sent to
list-owner at example.com and only after being received at that address
are they resent to the admin and moderator addresses.

So check what the MTA is doing with the list-owner address (aliases,
something else?).

Also check Mailman's smtp log. You'll normally see two entries with the
same message id. The first for 1 recipient (the mail to list-owner)
and the second perhaps a couple of seconds later for 'n' recipients
which will tell you how many admins/moderators it is sent to.

If you send mail directly to list-owner at example.com, does he get it?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/cmowen%40att.net

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jan 28 02:50:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 17:50:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation e-mail goes to user that is
	notadmin or moderator
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAJQ0nI3Qft0+nbxUwgjQeksKAAAAQAAAA18KalpIYe0WoP6AZcjrrsQEAAAAA@att.net>
Message-ID: <PC174020060127175010026597c9dc93@msapiro>

Charles M. Owen wrote:
>
>I am an end-user of a rented server. I do not have access to mailman
>directly. What is "MTA"?


<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.013.htp>


>I did discover three things. 
>
>1) The person getting the unwanted message sent me a copy and it was to
><list>-owner@<example.com> from mailman-bounces@<example.com>  


This is how owner notifications should be sent.


>2) When I added the list through the control panel, it automatically placed
>a forwarder (only one) in the forwarder list:
>
>owner-<list>@<example.com>  ==>>> <list>-admin@<example.com>  


This is wrong. If the intent of whatever did this is to handle mail to
owner-<list>@<example.com> by forwarding it to the list owner, it
should be forwarded to <list>-owner@<example.com>.

<list>-admin@<example.com> is a deprecated address. It hasn't been
actually used since Mailman 2.0.x. In Mailman 2.1.x it is a synonym
for <list>-bounces@<example.com>.


>2) Two people DID GET it that I did not expect and I found both addresses as
>forwarded from the "Default Address Maintenance" where "All unrouted mail
>will be sent".
>
>SO... I get the message for being in the moderator field as I should and
>they get it for unrouted mail. "<list>-owner" instead of "owner-<list>"
>should be forwarded. This is my working theory!! I have an idea of this is
>the course of action, but those more familiar can advise.


I'm not sure I'm correctly parsing the above, but the owner-<list>
address is not a Mailman address. It is an address that is generically
used by some to reach the owner of the list. Thus, with a Mailman
list, this address is supported by forwarding to the address that
actually reaches the owner.

What version of Mailman is this? I've been assuming it is a recent
2.1.x version, but maybe not, so what is it?


>THUS... what do I need to do or get the provider to fix?


Mailman 2.1.x expects 10 addresses per list to be delivered to Mailman
in specific ways and to not be 'unknown'.

These addresses are

<list>@...
<list>-bounces at ...
<list>-admin at ...  (does not go to the owner, goes to -bounces)
<list>-owner at ...
<list>-join at ...
<list>-leave at ...
<list>-subscribe at ...
<list>-unsubscribe at ...
<list>-request at ...
<list>-confirm at ...

Mailman 2.0.x expects only 4

<list>@...
<list>-admin at ...  (does go to the owner)
<list>-owner at ...
<list>-request at ...

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From cmowen at att.net  Sat Jan 28 03:28:24 2006
From: cmowen at att.net (Charles M. Owen)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:28:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation e-mail goes to user that
	isnotadmin or moderator
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060127175010026597c9dc93@msapiro>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAJQ0nI3Qft0+nbxUwgjQeksKAAAAQAAAAY53XUuDfHEGz6AXjzJ9W8AEAAAAA@att.net>



It reports to be 2.1.6. I will have to forward your comments to tech
support, but I have only one forwarder in my lists that was created by the
installation program provided. (You have indicated this forward is wrong,
thus unrouted/bad addresses go to the persons designated)

If you think of anything, I will also pass my tech supports help if helpful.


-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+cmowen=att.net at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+cmowen=att.net at python.org] On Behalf Of Mark
Sapiro
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 8:50 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation e-mail goes to user that
isnotadmin or moderator

Charles M. Owen wrote:
>
>I am an end-user of a rented server. I do not have access to mailman
>directly. What is "MTA"?


<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.013.htp>


>I did discover three things. 
>
>1) The person getting the unwanted message sent me a copy and it was to
><list>-owner@<example.com> from mailman-bounces@<example.com>  


This is how owner notifications should be sent.


>2) When I added the list through the control panel, it automatically placed
>a forwarder (only one) in the forwarder list:
>
>owner-<list>@<example.com>  ==>>> <list>-admin@<example.com>  


This is wrong. If the intent of whatever did this is to handle mail to
owner-<list>@<example.com> by forwarding it to the list owner, it
should be forwarded to <list>-owner@<example.com>.

<list>-admin@<example.com> is a deprecated address. It hasn't been
actually used since Mailman 2.0.x. In Mailman 2.1.x it is a synonym
for <list>-bounces@<example.com>.


>2) Two people DID GET it that I did not expect and I found both addresses
as
>forwarded from the "Default Address Maintenance" where "All unrouted mail
>will be sent".
>
>SO... I get the message for being in the moderator field as I should and
>they get it for unrouted mail. "<list>-owner" instead of "owner-<list>"
>should be forwarded. This is my working theory!! I have an idea of this is
>the course of action, but those more familiar can advise.


I'm not sure I'm correctly parsing the above, but the owner-<list>
address is not a Mailman address. It is an address that is generically
used by some to reach the owner of the list. Thus, with a Mailman
list, this address is supported by forwarding to the address that
actually reaches the owner.

What version of Mailman is this? I've been assuming it is a recent
2.1.x version, but maybe not, so what is it?


>THUS... what do I need to do or get the provider to fix?


Mailman 2.1.x expects 10 addresses per list to be delivered to Mailman
in specific ways and to not be 'unknown'.

These addresses are

<list>@...
<list>-bounces at ...
<list>-admin at ...  (does not go to the owner, goes to -bounces)
<list>-owner at ...
<list>-join at ...
<list>-leave at ...
<list>-subscribe at ...
<list>-unsubscribe at ...
<list>-request at ...
<list>-confirm at ...

Mailman 2.0.x expects only 4

<list>@...
<list>-admin at ...  (does go to the owner)
<list>-owner at ...
<list>-request at ...

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/cmowen%40att.net

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From ldb at freestandards.org  Sat Jan 28 04:43:33 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 22:43:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601271104490906d5a7cbbb@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200601271104490906d5a7cbbb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43DAE865.1020006@freestandards.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>> I have users subscribe to a list but yet I always have to approve their posts 
>> for some reason.
> 
> 
> For what reason? Every hold has a reason, what is this one?
> 
> 
>> And when I do have it accept this address for future posts, it 
>> still emails me to apporove it. Any ideas???
> 
> 
> The check box to accept future posts only applies to non-members.
> 
> I'm guessing that your new members are moderated because Privacy
> options...->Sender filters->default_member_moderation is set to Yes.
> If this is not what you want, set it to No and then on Membership
> Management...->Membership List under Additional Member Tasks - "Set
> everyone's moderation bit, including those members not currently
> visible", select "No" and click "Set".
> 

OK .. Here is the reason it says ..


	Reason:  	Post by non-member to a members-only list


but he is a member of the list. Are headers necessary for you guys to see?

Thanks,

LDB


From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Jan 28 05:57:40 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 13:57:40 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <43DA8592.1010304@yahoo.com> (Jim Popovitch's message of "Fri,
	27 Jan 2006 15:41:54 -0500")
References: <PC1740200601261956370671540c7a64@msapiro>
	<43D9B713.4000506@yahoo.com> <p06200750bfff9c4b9db6@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43D9F504.1070500@yahoo.com>
	<8764o576yy.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DA8592.1010304@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8764o554qj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Jim" == Jim Popovitch <jimpop at yahoo.com> writes:

    Jim> Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

    >> 5.  Security patches are asynchronous, like earthquakes, they
    >> happen when they happen.

    Jim> Very bad analogy.  Hurricanes would be better.  There is
    Jim> plenty of potential for user-base warning before a patch is
    Jim> to be released.

Oh, if you prefer windstorms, hurricane is a bad analogy.  Far more
accurate is "tornado".<0.1 wink>

Let's look at the pragmatics.  Are you suggesting that if on Friday at
4:45, a patch is developed 72 hours faster than the estimate, the
developers should withhold the patch until the scheduled announcement
time?  Or that although the developers release the patch, site admins
should wait until the scheduled announcement time to apply it?

    >> If the patch comes out on Friday at 4:45, I would cancel that
    >> dinner date with my daughter.  Wouldn't you?  What difference
    >> would notice on Tuesday that a patch is expected sometime on
    >> Friday make to that decision, anyway?

    Jim> Change "daughter" to "wife" and ask yourself how long your
    Jim> wife would remain if you kept canceling Friday dinner at the
    Jim> last minute.

I thought about issues like that 35 years ago, when I decided to
become a professor.  This is one reason I don't regret that decision.

Now, you may be "stuck" in your position for financial reasons, or
because of the other more attractive aspects it presents, but I don't
accept that that gives you a claim on the developers' evenings and
weekends, even if users like you outnumber the developers 100:1.

    Jim> Now look at it from a business standpoint and try and
    Jim> convince my customers that they should expect their service
    Jim> to be down at any point in time to do unplanned system
    Jim> upgrades.

Um?  Redundancy, man.  Either your customers pay for reliability, or
you don't provide it.  (Well, you could take a loss by providing it
and not charging, I guess.)  In very few cases does a patch-level
upgrade to Mailman require stopping for long enough that anybody would
notice in the queue slop.

Or you can set up other systems to mitigate the vulnerabilities (or
not, if that's inconvenient), and do the security update on banker's
hours.

    >> In sum, I just don't see what benefit there is to the process
    >> you outline relative to current policy.  The information
    >> doesn't make anyone more secure

    Jim> No one is advocating that more info means more security.
    Jim> More info just means that users aren't the only ones in the
    Jim> dark.  If the hack is out and the developers are working on
    Jim> it, who is left to inform... THE USERS OF THE PRODUCT.  Why
    Jim> leave us in the dark?

Because it gives information to the enemy and is only of marginal
value to this user; I'm not speaking for anyone else, but I would be
surprised if I'm the only one who feels this way.  Producing security
fixes is done on exactly the kind of off-hours, do-it-now schedule
that we all dislike for applying the fixes, and I think it's a good
idea to delegate the decision-making to the same experts I trust to do
the work.

    >> (unless they're willing to shut down their systems from
    >> announcement that "we're worried" until a workaround or fix is
    >> available)

    Jim> That is an option that I reserve the right to make the
    Jim> decision on. Don't remove my capability to make that decision
    Jim> by hiding the info.

Excuse me, but it is the _volunteers'_ judgment that broadcasting that
information will hinder their effectiveness.  I value your (and my!)
capability to respond to such threats, but I acknowledge that I have
no choice but to delegate the matter to the responsible developers.
Neither I nor you have any *right* in the matter.  See Section 11 of
the License under which you received Mailman.

If you want that information so badly, there are several ways you can
arrange to get it: you can employ the developers, you can follow the
security bulletins religiously (and privately ask the the developers
what they're doing about it and privately tell those you trust about
it), you can become a trusted developer.

TANSTAAFL.

    >> communication with users will slow production of the fix but
    >> won't reduce the variance on when it gets released, and it's a
    >> non-negligible burden on the developers.

    Jim> I don't believe that one bit, certainly not in the scenario
    Jim> that I described.

I really have to disapprove of the way you consistently deprecate
costs that others incur, while inflating those that you face.


-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jan 28 06:26:59 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:26:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <43DAE865.1020006@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC174020060127212659021897c9dc95@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>
>OK .. Here is the reason it says ..
>
>
>	Reason:  	Post by non-member to a members-only list
>
>
>but he is a member of the list. Are headers necessary for you guys to see?


What is the subscribed address?

What are the following headers in the message

From:
Reply-To:
Sender:
Return-Path:
and the From_ separator in a mailbox file if any.

And have you made any changes to the default

SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', None, 'reply-to', 'sender')

(above from Defaults.py)


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 28 06:43:10 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 00:43:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <8764o554qj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <PC1740200601261956370671540c7a64@msapiro>	<43D9B713.4000506@yahoo.com>
	<p06200750bfff9c4b9db6@[10.0.1.210]>	<43D9F504.1070500@yahoo.com>	<8764o576yy.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>	<43DA8592.1010304@yahoo.com>
	<8764o554qj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <43DB046E.9000403@yahoo.com>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>>>>>> "Jim" == Jim Popovitch <jimpop at yahoo.com> writes:
> 
> Oh, if you prefer windstorms, hurricane is a bad analogy.  Far more
> accurate is "tornado".<0.1 wink>

Hurricane is the most accurate analogy, because with hurricanes nobody 
knows about them until the NWS (at least here in the USA) informs them 
or they hear about it in the Media.  Even then, most people don't fully 
know the specifics of the hurricane, nor do they necessarily posses the 
skills to understand the dynamics of the hurricane.  HOWEVER, with 
sufficient info from the NWS people can prepare to address the 
inevitable effects of the hurricane should the need arise.

> Let's look at the pragmatics.  Are you suggesting that if on Friday at
> 4:45, a patch is developed 72 hours faster than the estimate, the
> developers should withhold the patch until the scheduled announcement
> time?  Or that although the developers release the patch, site admins
> should wait until the scheduled announcement time to apply it?

No.  What I am suggesting/recommending is this:  If the developers know 
on Monday of some super secret issue, and presumably they won't have a 
robust fully-tested solution until Friday, I want them to tell me in 
no-detail to alert me to be prepared for a Friday emergency patch.  How 
is that risky?

> 
> Now, you may be "stuck" in your position for financial reasons, or
> because of the other more attractive aspects it presents, but I don't
> accept that that gives you a claim on the developers' evenings and
> weekends, even if users like you outnumber the developers 100:1.

You mis-characterize (yet again?) what I am saying. I am not advocating 
for the developers to work more, or differently.  I am only asking for a 
"heads up", not a last minute announcement.  I don't want to be one of 
the last people to know of ANY Mailman security issue.  As a user of 
Mailman I expect to be kept in the loop by the vendor.  Microsoft gives 
more patch/release "heads up" info then Mailman does, think about that 
for a while.

> Because it gives information to the enemy and is only of marginal
> value to this user; I'm not speaking for anyone else, but I would be
> surprised if I'm the only one who feels this way.  Producing security
> fixes is done on exactly the kind of off-hours, do-it-now schedule
> that we all dislike for applying the fixes, and I think it's a good
> idea to delegate the decision-making to the same experts I trust to do
> the work.

My thoughts exactly.  I trust them to do the work and produce a fix. 
Again, all I am advocating is that if they are spending 6 days on a fix, 
don't wait until the 7th day to fill us in.  Let us know up front that 
they are working a possible fix that may need to be applied.  Where's 
the harm in that?

> 
>     >> (unless they're willing to shut down their systems from
>     >> announcement that "we're worried" until a workaround or fix is
>     >> available)
> 
>     Jim> That is an option that I reserve the right to make the
>     Jim> decision on. Don't remove my capability to make that decision
>     Jim> by hiding the info.
> 
> Excuse me, but it is the _volunteers'_ judgment that broadcasting that
> information will hinder their effectiveness.  I value your (and my!)
> capability to respond to such threats, but I acknowledge that I have
> no choice but to delegate the matter to the responsible developers.
> Neither I nor you have any *right* in the matter.  See Section 11 of
> the License under which you received Mailman.

Huh?  re-read my comments.  I reserve the right to shut my Mailman 
system down, for any reason, at any time, lack-of-a-workaround or not.

> If you want that information so badly, there are several ways you can
> arrange to get it: 

Again, you mis-understand my interests.  I don't want info on the hack, 
I want a "heads-up" that <unidentified> fix is in the pipe and sysadmins 
can expect it late Friday (or whenever).  Again, how is that so egregious?

> you can employ the developers, you can follow the
> security bulletins religiously (and privately ask the the developers
> what they're doing about it and privately tell those you trust about
> it), you can become a trusted developer.

Why should Mark/Barry/Tokio trust me anymore then the next guy? 
Honestly, I expect them NOT to.  There is nothing I am asking for that 
needs to involve trust, or disclosure concerns.

> TANSTAAFL.
> 
>     >> communication with users will slow production of the fix but
>     >> won't reduce the variance on when it gets released, and it's a
>     >> non-negligible burden on the developers.
> 
>     Jim> I don't believe that one bit, certainly not in the scenario
>     Jim> that I described.
> 
> I really have to disapprove of the way you consistently deprecate
> costs that others incur, while inflating those that you face.

You need to re-read what I've been writing.

-Jim P.





From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 28 06:46:21 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 00:46:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <43DAE865.1020006@freestandards.org>
References: <PC1740200601271104490906d5a7cbbb@msapiro>
	<43DAE865.1020006@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <43DB052D.7000107@yahoo.com>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:
> OK .. Here is the reason it says ..
> 
> 
> 	Reason:  	Post by non-member to a members-only list
> 
> 
> but he is a member of the list. Are headers necessary for you guys to see?

Try unsub'ing and resub'ing him.  Alternatively try logging into MM as 
admin and mod'ing and unmod'ing his address.  I think the mod'ing was 
sufficient for my case, but I never did really check the logs to see if 
the user sub/unsub'ed himself.

-Jim P.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Jan 28 11:11:37 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 11:11:37 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <43DB046E.9000403@yahoo.com>
References: <PC1740200601261956370671540c7a64@msapiro>
	<43D9B713.4000506@yahoo.com>	<p06200750bfff9c4b9db6@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43D9F504.1070500@yahoo.com>
	<8764o576yy.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DA8592.1010304@yahoo.com>
	<8764o554qj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DB046E.9000403@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p0620075cc000f100788e@[10.0.1.210]>

At 12:43 AM -0500 2006-01-28, Jim Popovitch wrote:

>  No.  What I am suggesting/recommending is this:  If the developers know
>  on Monday of some super secret issue, and presumably they won't have a
>  robust fully-tested solution until Friday, I want them to tell me in
>  no-detail to alert me to be prepared for a Friday emergency patch.  How
>  is that risky?

	But on Monday, they may not know how long it will take them to 
create a patch.  It might turn out to be a simple matter that can be 
fixed by Tuesday morning, or it might be complex and take weeks or 
months.

	But when they make that initial announcement, assuming no one 
else has posted something to some other mailing list, they're 
basically firing the starter's pistol for the blackhats to race to 
locate the bug and start exploiting it before a patch can be issued.

	I think they need to hold off a little while longer on making 
that initial announcement, at least until they know enough about the 
problem to have a good idea how long it's going to take to create the 
patch, how widespread the problem is, what the overall risk is, 
etc....


	In the case of the most recent issue, Tokio apparently felt that 
it was a reasonably low-risk item and he fixed the bug (along with a 
number of other problems) during the normal release cycle.  It wasn't 
until others came along and decided to call this a potential DoS 
attack that people like you started screaming.

>  You mis-characterize (yet again?) what I am saying. I am not advocating
>  for the developers to work more, or differently.  I am only asking for a
>  "heads up", not a last minute announcement.

	I don't think a last minute announcement is a good idea, but then 
I also don't think it's a good idea to run around like Chicken Little 
screaming that the sky is falling every time something comes up and 
before we've had enough time to look into the issue, gauge the 
potential risk and how many people might be affected, and have a 
decent idea of how long it's going to take to create a patch.

	I think we need to compromise somewhere in the middle, and I 
think we have to trust the Mailman developers to do that.

>  My thoughts exactly.  I trust them to do the work and produce a fix.
>  Again, all I am advocating is that if they are spending 6 days on a fix,
>  don't wait until the 7th day to fill us in.  Let us know up front that
>  they are working a possible fix that may need to be applied.  Where's
>  the harm in that?

	In most cases, when you're developing a fix for some bug, you may 
know that you've spent six days so far on the problem, but you may 
not have much of an idea of how much longer it's going to take you.

	If you make the seven day announcement one day into a problem 
that actually takes you a month, explain to me how this is a good 
thing?

>  Again, you mis-understand my interests.  I don't want info on the hack,
>  I want a "heads-up" that <unidentified> fix is in the pipe and sysadmins
>  can expect it late Friday (or whenever).  Again, how is that so egregious?

	And I think you misunderstand the development process.  Many 
times you don't know how long it's going to take you until you've 
done it.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From ldb at freestandards.org  Sat Jan 28 15:59:16 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 09:59:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060127212659021897c9dc95@msapiro>
References: <PC174020060127212659021897c9dc95@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43DB86C4.5010801@freestandards.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>> OK .. Here is the reason it says ..
>>
>>
>> 	Reason:  	Post by non-member to a members-only list
>>
>>
>> but he is a member of the list. Are headers necessary for you guys to see?
> 
> 
> What is the subscribed address?
> 
> What are the following headers in the message
> 
> From:
> Reply-To:
> Sender:
> Return-Path:
> and the From_ separator in a mailbox file if any.
> 
> And have you made any changes to the default
> 
> SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', None, 'reply-to', 'sender')
> 
> (above from Defaults.py)
> 
> 

Here are my settings .. USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER description is seemingly the problem 
I am having. But I have it set to, "No". ... Maybe I am interpreting it wrong ..



# When allowing only members to post to a mailing list, how is the sender of
# the message determined?  If this variable is set to Yes, then first the
# message's envelope sender is used, with a fallback to the sender if there is
# no envelope sender.  Set this variable to No to always use the sender.
#
# The envelope sender is set by the SMTP delivery and is thus less easily
# spoofed than the sender, which is typically just taken from the From: header
# and thus easily spoofed by the end-user.  However, sometimes the envelope
# sender isn't set correctly and this will manifest itself by postings being
# held for approval even if they appear to come from a list member.  If you
# are having this problem, set this variable to No, but understand that some
# spoofed messages may get through.
USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = No

# Membership tests for posting purposes are usually performed by looking at a
# set of headers, passing the test if any of their values match a member of
# the list.  Headers are checked in the order given in this variable.  The
# value None means use the From_ (envelope sender) header.  Field names are
# case insensitive.
SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', None, 'reply-to', 'sender')




LDB


From ldb at freestandards.org  Sat Jan 28 16:16:05 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 10:16:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <43DB86C4.5010801@freestandards.org>
References: <PC174020060127212659021897c9dc95@msapiro>
	<43DB86C4.5010801@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <43DB8AB5.1040701@freestandards.org>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>>> OK .. Here is the reason it says ..
>>>
>>>
>>> 	Reason:  	Post by non-member to a members-only list
>>>
>>>
>>> but he is a member of the list. Are headers necessary for you guys to see?
>>
>> What is the subscribed address?
>>
>> What are the following headers in the message
>>
>> From:
>> Reply-To:
>> Sender:
>> Return-Path:
>> and the From_ separator in a mailbox file if any.
>>
>> And have you made any changes to the default
>>
>> SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', None, 'reply-to', 'sender')
>>
>> (above from Defaults.py)
>>
>>
> 
> Here are my settings .. USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER description is seemingly the problem 
> I am having. But I have it set to, "No". ... Maybe I am interpreting it wrong ..
> 
> 
> 
> # When allowing only members to post to a mailing list, how is the sender of
> # the message determined?  If this variable is set to Yes, then first the
> # message's envelope sender is used, with a fallback to the sender if there is
> # no envelope sender.  Set this variable to No to always use the sender.
> #
> # The envelope sender is set by the SMTP delivery and is thus less easily
> # spoofed than the sender, which is typically just taken from the From: header
> # and thus easily spoofed by the end-user.  However, sometimes the envelope
> # sender isn't set correctly and this will manifest itself by postings being
> # held for approval even if they appear to come from a list member.  If you
> # are having this problem, set this variable to No, but understand that some
> # spoofed messages may get through.
> USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = No
> 
> # Membership tests for posting purposes are usually performed by looking at a
> # set of headers, passing the test if any of their values match a member of
> # the list.  Headers are checked in the order given in this variable.  The
> # value None means use the From_ (envelope sender) header.  Field names are
> # case insensitive.
> SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', None, 'reply-to', 'sender')
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LDB
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ldb%40freestandards.org
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 


I forgot to mention that the posts are coming from the local servers on the
network within the same domain.

Thanks,

LDB



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 28 16:31:22 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 10:31:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <p0620075cc000f100788e@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <PC1740200601261956370671540c7a64@msapiro>
	<43D9B713.4000506@yahoo.com>	<p06200750bfff9c4b9db6@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43D9F504.1070500@yahoo.com>
	<8764o576yy.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DA8592.1010304@yahoo.com>
	<8764o554qj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DB046E.9000403@yahoo.com> <p0620075cc000f100788e@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <43DB8E4A.50109@yahoo.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>     But on Monday, they may not know how long it will take them to 
> create a patch.  It might turn out to be a simple matter that can be 
> fixed by Tuesday morning, or it might be complex and take weeks or months.
> 
>     But when they make that initial announcement, assuming no one else 
> has posted something to some other mailing list, they're basically 
> firing the starter's pistol for the blackhats to race to locate the bug 
> and start exploiting it before a patch can be issued.

But now, you really don't know that, do you?  People are fooling 
themselves when you think that the blackhats don't already know about 
issues like this.  We don't know what they know, so adopting a 
head-in-the-sand mentality only really inhibits the user base.

>     I think they need to hold off a little while longer on making that 
> initial announcement, at least until they know enough about the problem 
> to have a good idea how long it's going to take to create the patch, how 
> widespread the problem is, what the overall risk is, etc....

OK, that's fair.  But do you think they need to hold off entirely up 
until the point they have a patch pushed to *.dl.sf.net?

>     In the case of the most recent issue, Tokio apparently felt that it 
> was a reasonably low-risk item and he fixed the bug (along with a number 
> of other problems) during the normal release cycle.  It wasn't until 
> others came along and decided to call this a potential DoS attack that 
> people like you started screaming.

Listen, nobody expects Tokio to be perfect.  If people hadn't started 
making some noise most of us wouldn't know there is a pending patch. 
Yet we still haven't broken any code-of-silence, nor have we aided any 
blackhats.

>     I don't think a last minute announcement is a good idea, but then I 
> also don't think it's a good idea to run around like Chicken Little 
> screaming that the sky is falling every time something comes up and 
> before we've had enough time to look into the issue, gauge the potential 
> risk and how many people might be affected, and have a decent idea of 
> how long it's going to take to create a patch.

Fair enough.

> 
>     I think we need to compromise somewhere in the middle, and I think 
> we have to trust the Mailman developers to do that.

Agreed.  I would only add that we need to encourage them to do this as 
part of their fix-test-release process.  I can't recall them ever giving 
advance notice or recommendations.  The only ones I recall are when a 
user has publicly raised the issue and one of the developers have come 
forward and recommended tweaks to private.py and/or Cleanse.py.

>>  My thoughts exactly.  I trust them to do the work and produce a fix.
>>  Again, all I am advocating is that if they are spending 6 days on a fix,
>>  don't wait until the 7th day to fill us in.  Let us know up front that
>>  they are working a possible fix that may need to be applied.  Where's
>>  the harm in that?
> 
>     In most cases, when you're developing a fix for some bug, you may 
> know that you've spent six days so far on the problem, but you may not 
> have much of an idea of how much longer it's going to take you.
>
 >
>     If you make the seven day announcement one day into a problem that 
> actually takes you a month, explain to me how this is a good thing?

It's a good thing because it keeps your users in-the-know.  Again, 
nobody is expecting perfection, just info.  If you don't know how long 
it will take, don't say 7 days.  Just say "I don't know, we are working 
on it".  At least then users will know something is up.  After that if 2 
weeks go by without a patch users can start some Q&A to possibly keep 
things going.

> 
>>  Again, you mis-understand my interests.  I don't want info on the hack,
>>  I want a "heads-up" that <unidentified> fix is in the pipe and sysadmins
>>  can expect it late Friday (or whenever).  Again, how is that so 
>> egregious?
> 
>     And I think you misunderstand the development process.  Many times 
> you don't know how long it's going to take you until you've done it.

I think you don't understand project management and process tracking. 
;-)  Again, nobody is screaming for miracles, just some info.  Don't 
keep everyone in the dark just because you think nobody knows about this 
or that yet.

-Jim P.




From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jan 28 17:47:24 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 08:47:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] troubles with multiple installations on the
	samemachine
In-Reply-To: <43DB59CC.6010802@davide.galletti.name>
Message-ID: <PC174020060128084724075074108626@msapiro>

Davide Galletti wrote:
>
>I had misundertood the text of the FAQ on multiple installations; now I 
>have tried virtual hosts and it seems to work just fine.


Great.


>As of the Apache configuration I am already using the name based 
>approach as you can see from the ServerName
>directive; so I still think I have an issue somewhere else. I won't do 
>further investigations having solved the main one with virtual hosts.


I guess then that this is moot at this point, but my interpretation of
the referenced Apache docs is that you need NameVirtualHost directives
in the configuaration in addition to the ServerName directives in the
VirtualHost sections.


>>Since your virtual hosts seem to use the same IP address (at least the
>>ones I could look up), you need NameVirtualHost directives. See
>><http://httpd.apache.org/docs/1.3/vhosts/name-based.html> or
>><http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/vhosts/name-based.html> as
>>appropriate.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jan 28 18:17:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 09:17:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <43DB8AB5.1040701@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC174020060128091708057829dc33ca@msapiro>

>Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>>
>>> What is the subscribed address?
>>>
>>> What are the following headers in the message
>>>
>>> From:
>>> Reply-To:
>>> Sender:
>>> Return-Path:
>>> and the From_ separator in a mailbox file if any.
>
>I forgot to mention that the posts are coming from the local servers on the
>network within the same domain.


And you still haven't answered the above questions.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jan 28 18:24:55 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 09:24:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <43DB8AB5.1040701@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006012809245504217ee5729c@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>
>I forgot to mention that the posts are coming from the local servers on the
>network within the same domain.

And does this affect the addresses in the headers?

I.e. if the subscription is for 'localuser at example.com', are the
headers in the message perhaps calling this just 'localuser' or maybe
'localuser at localbox.example.com'?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jan 28 19:32:46 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 10:32:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <A7ECED60-9964-438D-8400-9F76AB1E9547@hobby.nl>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601281032460968f46ac556@msapiro>

Daan Hoogland wrote:

>I've seen a similar thing. I've got allow regexpes like  
>^.*@some.domain. I have to approve post from those addresses as well.  
>I tried putting the list of addresses that match the regexp in the  
>allow, but no change noticeable.

Are the posts being held as "Post by non-member to a members-only list"
or for some other reason?

Is the from address actually '@some.domain' and not '@xxx.some.domain'?

What if you put "^.*some\.domain$" as the regexp in
accept_these_nonmembers? I.e., allow any address that ends with
'some.domain', not just those that are exactly '@some.domain'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Jan 28 19:34:22 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 19:34:22 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <43DB8E4A.50109@yahoo.com>
References: <PC1740200601261956370671540c7a64@msapiro>
	<43D9B713.4000506@yahoo.com>	<p06200750bfff9c4b9db6@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43D9F504.1070500@yahoo.com>
	<8764o576yy.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DA8592.1010304@yahoo.com>
	<8764o554qj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DB046E.9000403@yahoo.com> <p0620075cc000f100788e@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43DB8E4A.50109@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p0620075fc00167f25987@[10.0.1.210]>

At 10:31 AM -0500 2006-01-28, Jim Popovitch wrote:

>>      But when they make that initial announcement, assuming no one else
>>  has posted something to some other mailing list, they're basically firing
>>  the starter's pistol for the blackhats to race to locate the bug and
>>  start exploiting it before a patch can be issued.
>
>  But now, you really don't know that, do you?

	Sure we do.  Some blackhats will already know, but there will be 
others that don't -- and who would never know until the first 
official announcement goes out.

	No matter what, that first official announcement increases the 
exposure of the security weakness.  That is an unescapable universal 
truth.

>  OK, that's fair.  But do you think they need to hold off entirely up until
>  the point they have a patch pushed to *.dl.sf.net?

	It depends on the nature of the weakness in question, and the 
circumstances under which the patch was developed.  I would say that 
waiting a longer period may be appropriate in some circumstances, and 
undesirable in others.

>  Listen, nobody expects Tokio to be perfect.  If people hadn't started
>  making some noise most of us wouldn't know there is a pending patch.

	Actually, you're wrong.  There is no patch.  There is an upgrade, 
which was created a while ago -- The bug in question was fixed along 
with a number of other issues.

	So far as I know, this work was done without knowledge of the 
so-called DoS warning, so there was never any intention of creating a 
patch to resolve a problem which was already fixed.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 28 19:40:19 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 13:40:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Verifying posts
Message-ID: <43DBBA93.7030906@yahoo.com>

Hi all,

I've been looking into TMDA (http://tmda.net) and got to wondering if 
something like this (or a subset of it) should be incorporated into Mailman.

Here's my line of thinking:

What if Mailman had a means, similar to the current subscription 
verification process, to verify postings to a given list.  For instance, 
after a user subscribes to a list and verifies their subscription, on 
their first post they receive an email asking them to verify their 
intention to post to the list.  Subsequently, after XX days of no 
activity, they would be asked to re-verify their intention to post. 
It's sort of a means of self-moderation with the sole intention of 
having the user periodically validate their intention.

The user would see text like this:

   "Hi!  This is the Mailman system at blah.com.  We received your
    email for list at blah.com but we noticed that you've never posted
    here before.  Prior to processing your email, we ask that you
    click the URL below to verify that this is your intention."

Alternate Text:

   "Hi!  This is the Mailman system at blah.com.  We received your
    email for list at blah.com but we noticed that you haven't posted
    here in the past XX days. Prior to processing your email, we
    ask that you click the URL below to verify that this is your
    intention."

Why do this?  Well, over time very large lists collect lots of email 
addresses and some end up in "nomail" state for various reasons (not all 
entirely clear unless the list started post MM 2.0).  Admins are faced 
with leaving the addresses or manually trying to contact all the users 
to establish the reason for the nomail state.  Needless to say, few 
really do this.  So systems wind up having large numbers of email 
addresses pre-approved to post to a given list even though they probably 
never will ... at least until a spammer starts using their email address.

This seems to me like a good fit, albeit entirely perfect, for Mailman? 
  Thoughts?

-Jim P.




From ldb at freestandards.org  Sat Jan 28 19:45:33 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 13:45:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <A7ECED60-9964-438D-8400-9F76AB1E9547@hobby.nl>
References: <PC1740200601271104490906d5a7cbbb@msapiro>
	<43DABBB5.1070300@freestandards.org>
	<A7ECED60-9964-438D-8400-9F76AB1E9547@hobby.nl>
Message-ID: <43DBBBCD.5050201@freestandards.org>

Daan Hoogland wrote:
> I've seen a similar thing. I've got allow regexpes like  
> ^.*@some.domain. I have to approve post from those addresses as well.  I 
> tried putting the list of addresses that match the regexp in the  allow, 
> but no change noticeable.
> 
> 
> On 28 Jan,2006, at 1:32 AM, Lawrence Bowie wrote:
> 
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>>>> I have users subscribe to a list but yet I always have to approve  
>>>> their posts
>>>> for some reason.
>>>
>>>
>>> For what reason? Every hold has a reason, what is this one?
>>>
>>>
>>>> And when I do have it accept this address for future posts, it
>>>> still emails me to apporove it. Any ideas???
>>>
>>>
>>> The check box to accept future posts only applies to non-members.
>>>
>>> I'm guessing that your new members are moderated because Privacy
>>> options...->Sender filters->default_member_moderation is set to Yes.
>>> If this is not what you want, set it to No and then on Membership
>>> Management...->Membership List under Additional Member Tasks - "Set
>>> everyone's moderation bit, including those members not currently
>>> visible", select "No" and click "Set".
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for replying.
>>
>> That has already been done. There is something wrong.
>>
>> Everyone is subscribed to the list as memebers and they are posting  
>> with the
>> same email as on the membership list.
>>
>> Has anyone seen this before. Very weird ...
>>
>> LDB
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list
>> Mailman-Users at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users% 
>> 40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ 
>> mailman-owner%40hobby.nl
>>
>> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
>> req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> 

Yep .. I tried that as well to no avail at all.

LDB


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 28 20:11:41 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 14:11:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <p0620075fc00167f25987@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <PC1740200601261956370671540c7a64@msapiro>
	<43D9B713.4000506@yahoo.com>	<p06200750bfff9c4b9db6@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43D9F504.1070500@yahoo.com>
	<8764o576yy.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DA8592.1010304@yahoo.com>
	<8764o554qj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DB046E.9000403@yahoo.com>
	<p0620075cc000f100788e@[10.0.1.210]> <43DB8E4A.50109@yahoo.com>
	<p0620075fc00167f25987@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <43DBC1ED.3080209@yahoo.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> 
> Some blackhats will already know, but there will be others that don't
> -- and who would never know until the first official announcement
> goes out.
> 
> No matter what, that first official announcement increases the 
> exposure of the security weakness.  That is an unescapable universal
> truth.

'Universal truth'?  I sincerely doubt that.  You seem to be back on that 
security through obscurity approach again. ;-)  By the time the first 
official announcements are released usually everybody knows something of 
the issue.  Take Microsoft and Redhat for good examples.  I see them 
release stuff all time for things I've seen mentioned elsewhere. 
Microsoft tells me every week what patches they are working on and what 
I can expect in the future.  I don't get vulnerability specifics, but I 
do get arena specifics.  A good example of this was the recent WMF 
vulnerability.  Prior to releasing a patch MS advised customers how to 
protect their systems from the exploit and gave estimates on when they 
hoped to have a patch release.  This was widely discussed on /., I would 
be surprised if you missed it.

Again I will remind you that I am NOT asking for Mailman developers to 
release details, just early info on the updates/patches.  SANS/Mitre/etc 
already fill us in on the vulnerabilities, what I want from 
Mark/Tokio/Brandon is some feedback that they are aware and addressing 
the situation and not sitting around waiting for X, Y, or Z, before they 
can move forward.  This isn't oversight, it's just reasonable feedback.

The whole reason for me waxing so passionately on this thread is the 
earlier suggestion that Diana shouldn't have even emailed mailman-users, 
but rather mailman-security and kept it quiet thereafter (this after it 
was already released over at securityfocus.com).

>> OK, that's fair.  But do you think they need to hold off entirely
>> up until the point they have a patch pushed to *.dl.sf.net?
> 
> It depends on the nature of the weakness in question, and the 
> circumstances under which the patch was developed.  I would say that
>  waiting a longer period may be appropriate in some circumstances,
> and undesirable in others.

Fair enough.

>> Listen, nobody expects Tokio to be perfect.  If people hadn't
>> started making some noise most of us wouldn't know there is a
>> pending patch.
> 
> Actually, you're wrong.  There is no patch.  There is an upgrade,

Patch, smatch.  You are mincing words to try and make your point (which 
is getting suspiciously close to mine).  Again, all I'm asking for is 
some pre-patch, pre-upgrade info on what to expect.  Nothing more, 
nothing specific, no hard dates or time limits.  If this is too "secret" 
to put out on mailman-users, then lets create a vetted mailman-alerts 
list and at least let those that want to be informed get updates.

-Jim P.






From ldb at freestandards.org  Sat Jan 28 21:12:08 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 15:12:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060127212659021897c9dc95@msapiro>
References: <PC174020060127212659021897c9dc95@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43DBD018.7000205@freestandards.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>> OK .. Here is the reason it says ..
>>
>>
>> 	Reason:  	Post by non-member to a members-only list
>>
>>
>> but he is a member of the list. Are headers necessary for you guys to see?
> 
> 
> What is the subscribed address?
> 
> What are the following headers in the message
> 
> From:
> Reply-To:
> Sender:
> Return-Path:
> and the From_ separator in a mailbox file if any.
> 
> And have you made any changes to the default
> 
> SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', None, 'reply-to', 'sender')
> 
> (above from Defaults.py)
> 
> 


username at domain.org is the subscribed address.


The headers are as follows:


 From username at domain.org  Fri Jan 27 19:25:04 2006
Return-Path: <username at domain.org>
X-Original-To: listname at lists.domain.org
Delivered-To: listname at lists.domain.org
Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])
         by lists.domain.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 990FD6780B0
         for <listname at lists.domain.org>;
         Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:25:04 -0800 (PST)
Received: from lists.domain.org ([127.0.0.1])
         by localhost (lists.domain.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new,
         port 10024) with ESMTP id 11514-08
         for <listname at lists.domain.org>;
         Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:25:04 -0800 (PST)
Received: by lists.domain.org (Postfix, from userid 1005)
         id 51999678112; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:25:04 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail.domain.org (mail.domain.org [216.93.165.132])
         (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))
         (No client certificate requested)
         by lists.domain.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 395866780A9
         for <listname at lists.domain.org>;
         Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:25:03 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail.domain.org (Postfix)
         id 1D7E0128004; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:25:03 -0800 (PST)
Delivered-To: listname at domain.org
Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])
         by mail.domain.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F527850439
         for <listname at domain.org>;
         Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:25:03 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail.domain.org ([127.0.0.1])
         by localhost (mail.domain.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new,
         port 10024)
         with ESMTP id 11298-09 for <listname at domain.org>;
         Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:25:02 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail.domain.org (Postfix, from userid 1005)
         id ED9CE850E5C; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:25:02 -0800 (PST)
Received: from base2.domain.org (gforge.domain.org
         [207.235.77.148])
         by mail.domain.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EA40850439
         for <listname at domain.org>;
         Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:25:01 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=base2.domain.org)
         by hostname.domain.org with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian))
         id 1F2ghw-0001Qk-00 for <listname at domain.org>;
         Fri, 27 Jan 2006 22:25:00 -0500
From: User Name <username at domain.org>
To: listname at domain.org


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jan 28 23:52:34 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 14:52:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <43DBD018.7000205@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601281452340375dee6b159@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>
>username at domain.org is the subscribed address.
>
>
>The headers are as follows:
>
>
> From username at domain.org  Fri Jan 27 19:25:04 2006
>Return-Path: <username at domain.org>
>X-Original-To: listname at lists.domain.org
>Delivered-To: listname at lists.domain.org
>Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])
>         by lists.domain.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 990FD6780B0
>         for <listname at lists.domain.org>;
>         Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:25:04 -0800 (PST)
>Received: from lists.domain.org ([127.0.0.1])
>         by localhost (lists.domain.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new,
>         port 10024) with ESMTP id 11514-08
>         for <listname at lists.domain.org>;
>         Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:25:04 -0800 (PST)
>Received: by lists.domain.org (Postfix, from userid 1005)
>         id 51999678112; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:25:04 -0800 (PST)
>Received: from mail.domain.org (mail.domain.org [216.93.165.132])
>         (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))
>         (No client certificate requested)
>         by lists.domain.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 395866780A9
>         for <listname at lists.domain.org>;
>         Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:25:03 -0800 (PST)
>Received: by mail.domain.org (Postfix)
>         id 1D7E0128004; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:25:03 -0800 (PST)
>Delivered-To: listname at domain.org
>Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])
>         by mail.domain.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F527850439
>         for <listname at domain.org>;
>         Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:25:03 -0800 (PST)
>Received: from mail.domain.org ([127.0.0.1])
>         by localhost (mail.domain.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new,
>         port 10024)
>         with ESMTP id 11298-09 for <listname at domain.org>;
>         Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:25:02 -0800 (PST)
>Received: by mail.domain.org (Postfix, from userid 1005)
>         id ED9CE850E5C; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:25:02 -0800 (PST)
>Received: from base2.domain.org (gforge.domain.org
>         [207.235.77.148])
>         by mail.domain.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EA40850439
>         for <listname at domain.org>;
>         Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:25:01 -0800 (PST)
>Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=base2.domain.org)
>         by hostname.domain.org with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian))
>         id 1F2ghw-0001Qk-00 for <listname at domain.org>;
>         Fri, 27 Jan 2006 22:25:00 -0500
>From: User Name <username at domain.org>
>To: listname at domain.org

It certainly looks as though that should have been accepted.

What is in Mailman's 'vette' log for this post? If that doesn't provide
the answer, I would try the following:

In Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py, find the following:

----------------------------------------
    else:
        sender = msg.get_sender()
    # From here on out, we're dealing with non-members.
----------------------------------------

Change the this to:

----------------------------------------
    else:
        sender = msg.get_sender()
    # From here on out, we're dealing with non-members.
    syslog('vette',
           'Non member post. get_senders() = %s get_sender() = %s',
           str(msg.get_senders()), sender)
-----------------------------------------

This will create an entry in the 'vette' log (preceding the normal held
post entry) for every non-member post. which in addition to the
'sender' from get_sender() also contains the list of senders from
get_senders(). It is this list that is validated for membership. The
post is considered from a list member if any of the get_senders()
addresses is a list member.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From justbrits at comcast.net  Sun Jan 29 01:40:36 2006
From: justbrits at comcast.net (JustBrits_com)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 18:40:36 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Display??
References: <PC174020060127175010026597c9dc93@msapiro>
Message-ID: <258001c6246c$a025d660$6401a8c0@ActualOffice>

Hi Gents & Ladies!

Another newbie here.


Dan/The Fold wrote....
<<but for budget purposes I have switched to
bluehost.com which is where the mailman list currently resides.
>>

Which is where I am also.  FWIW, it's mailman 2.1.6 for Dan's problem.

Now I joined this List as it was what was suggested by Bluehost because of
my question which they could not answer (and I HAVE found them to be
EXCELLENT!!!) so I have just been "reading"-;) !

My question to them was:
*****************************************
I am Admin/Owner of a Mailman List offered by Bluehost.com thru my site
www.justbrits.com .

In setting up the orginal List and while under 20 or so Members the
membership List showed Full Page (length).  When Membership got to somewhere
around  30, the List changed to an Alphabetic styled one and I HATE it.

I have not only search on on-site documation and requested assitence from
Bluehost Tech (who directed me here) but alsognu/org/software/mailman site
and can find NOTHING which even mentions the option to return to a FULL List
display.

Is there one???
***************************************

So my question remains the same????

As an aside, I do NOT think we (Dan & I) have access to the Mailman "shell".

THANKS!!!

Ed



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jan 29 02:12:31 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 17:12:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Display??
In-Reply-To: <258001c6246c$a025d660$6401a8c0@ActualOffice>
Message-ID: <PC174020060128171231006262b4ee7d@msapiro>

JustBrits_com wrote:
>
>In setting up the orginal List and while under 20 or so Members the
>membership List showed Full Page (length).  When Membership got to somewhere
>around  30, the List changed to an Alphabetic styled one and I HATE it.

There is a list attribute, admin_member_chunksize, which is initialized
at list creation to the mm_cfg.py parameter
DEFAULT_ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE which in turn defaults to 30.

When the number of members is not more than admin_member_chunksize,
they are all on one page on the Membership Management...->Membership
List. When there are more than admin_member_chunksize members, they
are paginated by the first character of the email address.

There is a feature request about this at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=782436&group_id=103&atid=350103>
and a bug report at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=782436&group_id=103&atid=350103>.

There are two issues here.

admin_member_chunksize is not settable by the list owner, and there is
no option to have 'n per page' without alphabetic divisions.

I'll try to get the first of these implemented in 2.1.8 if there's no
objection. The second will probably have to wait.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lists05 at equinephotoart.com  Sat Jan 28 06:14:46 2006
From: lists05 at equinephotoart.com (JC Dill)
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 21:14:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <43DAE865.1020006@freestandards.org>
References: <PC1740200601271104490906d5a7cbbb@msapiro>
	<43DAE865.1020006@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <43DAFDC6.40804@equinephotoart.com>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:

> OK .. Here is the reason it says ..
> 
> 	Reason:  	Post by non-member to a members-only list
> 
> but he is a member of the list. Are headers necessary for you guys to see?

Betcha he's not subscribed with the *exact* same address as he's sending 
the post from.  A common problem of this type is when someone subscribed 
with an email address of user at domain.com and then posts to the list from 
user at subdomain.domain.com, or visa versa.

Complete headers would help, as would verifying the *exact* email 
address the member is subscribed with.

jc




From pc2a at pi4cc.nl  Sun Jan 29 09:55:06 2006
From: pc2a at pi4cc.nl (Peter)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 08:55:06 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 1 xxx moderator request(s) waiting
Message-ID: <43DC82EA.8291B934@pi4cc.nl>

Hi

I have a wating meassge, but the cue is empty.
How can I get off this waring?
The xxx are repace to hide (spam) the real neames

=========Waring message everyday=============

The xxx at pi4cc.nl mailing list has 1 request(s) waiting for your
consideration at:

        http://xxx/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/xxx

Please attend to this at your earliest convenience.  This notice of
pending requests, if any, will be sent out daily.


Pending posts:
From: xxx at planet.nl on Thu Jan 12 15:15:41 2006
Subject: 1
Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list


=====output of  bin/dumpdb lists/xxx/request.pck ====

[----- start pickle file -----]
<----- start object 1 ----->
{'version': (0, 1)}
[----- end pickle file -----]

=========================================
Via the  web interface is not message visible
The list is working ok

Peter




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Jan 29 11:40:18 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 11:40:18 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <43DBC1ED.3080209@yahoo.com>
References: <PC1740200601261956370671540c7a64@msapiro>
	<43D9B713.4000506@yahoo.com>	<p06200750bfff9c4b9db6@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43D9F504.1070500@yahoo.com>
	<8764o576yy.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DA8592.1010304@yahoo.com>
	<8764o554qj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DB046E.9000403@yahoo.com> <p0620075cc000f100788e@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43DB8E4A.50109@yahoo.com> <p0620075fc00167f25987@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43DBC1ED.3080209@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06200760c0024b0291b0@[10.0.1.210]>

At 2:11 PM -0500 2006-01-28, Jim Popovitch wrote:

>  The whole reason for me waxing so passionately on this thread is the
>  earlier suggestion that Diana shouldn't have even emailed mailman-users,
>  but rather mailman-security and kept it quiet thereafter (this after it
>  was already released over at securityfocus.com).

	Correct.  See FAQ 1.27.  That is the official Security Policy of 
this mailing list, and that information is included in the footer of 
every single mail message which passes through this list.

	In this case, no harm was done, since the bug had already been 
"fixed" through the work that Tokio had done in creating the next 
release of the code, and the real problem was the disconnect in what 
we were calling the bug and what they were calling it.  But the 
potential was certainly there.


	But if you can't adhere to the official Security Policy of this 
mailing list, then you shouldn't be posting here, and you shouldn't 
be subscribed.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Jan 29 17:14:47 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 01:14:47 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <43DB046E.9000403@yahoo.com> (Jim Popovitch's message of "Sat,
	28 Jan 2006 00:43:10 -0500")
References: <PC1740200601261956370671540c7a64@msapiro>
	<43D9B713.4000506@yahoo.com> <p06200750bfff9c4b9db6@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43D9F504.1070500@yahoo.com>
	<8764o576yy.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DA8592.1010304@yahoo.com>
	<8764o554qj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DB046E.9000403@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <87zmlf2eq0.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Jim" == Jim Popovitch <jimpop at yahoo.com> writes:

    Jim> Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

    >> Oh, if you prefer windstorms, hurricane is a bad analogy.  Far
    >> more accurate is "tornado".<0.1 wink>

    Jim> Hurricane is the most accurate analogy, because with
    Jim> hurricanes nobody knows about them until the NWS (at least
    Jim> here in the USA) informs them

The reason nobody knows until they're told is because they haven't
thought to google for "satellite weather photos".<wink>

One reason I say that hurricanes are a bad analogy (besides the fact
that they're not sentient, while even script kiddies are sentient) is
that they're big and they trash everything in their path.  Of course
it makes sense to invest in a press office to make announcements about
them.  Furthermore, non-specialists have a strong interest in the
news, because they have options---they can board the windows and run
away.  This is not the case with Mailman; only specialists (sysadmins
as well as developers) can do anything about it, and they should know
where to find the equivalent of satellite weather photos (CERT,
SecurityFocus, etc).

Here, we have a vulnerability; in this case the exploit is obvious,
but who is really going to exploit it?  Furthermore, if you just keep
daily stats on the size of the queues, you'll almost certainly catch
it before it's a real problem, unless you're using lists for
time-sensitive information.  But in that case you'd better be set up
for hourly reports, anyway.

While there are profitably exploitable defects, most defects are like
this one.  Is there really much benefit to keeping everyone up to
date?  No.

Now consider a moderately dangerous bug, like the path-traversal bug.
*It wasn't a Mailman bug, Mailman cannot enforce access control.*  If
you announce this bug, and how to work around it, you've exposed the
bug in Apache to the world.  If the Apache developers don't have a fix
ready to deploy, this is very dangerous.  Even if you don't mention
Apache, the black hats see your announcement and realize (1) Mailman
is not a webserver; (2) the path traversal bug must be in a webserver;
(3) they see how it works through the countermeasure taken.  Mailman
has just published a way to exploit Apache.

Of course not all cases are like this example, but determining what
kind of case it is, and what information others are likely to consider
sensitive (including asking them), is time- and attention-consuming.

    Jim> You mis-characterize (yet again?) what I am saying. I am not
    Jim> advocating for the developers to work more, or differently.

But you are.  I've worked on such fixes (a rank amateur, but I was who
was available), and I've seen pros at work.  You consistently assume
that the developers already possess the information you ask for; I see
no reason to believe they do.  Even the small amount of information
you say you want takes a fair amount of attention to produce.  If
there are two developers involved, they'll undoubtedly have different
cost estimates, so there needs to be a meeting.  If there is another
project involved, there will have to be a national election<wink>.  In
a free software project, it's reasonable to say that the only tasks
where reliable schedule estimates can be made are those that are
already finished.

Release of security-related information is yet more controversial
(witness this thread).  More meetings....

    Jim> That is an option that I reserve the right to make the
    Jim> decision on. Don't remove my capability to make that decision
    Jim> by hiding the info.

    >> Neither I nor you have any *right* in the matter.

    Jim> Huh?  re-read my comments.  I reserve the right to shut my
    Jim> Mailman system down, for any reason, at any time,
    Jim> lack-of-a-workaround or not.

No, you re-read your comments.  "Don't remove" is an imperative phrase
in the English language.  Your use of the imperative mood is
sufficient justification for assuming you think you have some rights
in the matter of receiving information.  Elsewhere you talk about what
you "expect", which corroborates that inference.

    Jim> Why should Mark/Barry/Tokio trust me anymore then the next
    Jim> guy?

They shouldn't.  I'm saying that there are a number of alternatives.
One of those is for you to contribute enough (and otherwise show
reliability) to become trusted.  If you want to ask them for "off the
top of their heads" estimates, you'd better be trustworthy, because
they're in too much of a hurry to think carefully about what they're
saying.

    >> I really have to disapprove of the way you consistently
    >> deprecate costs that others incur, while inflating those that
    >> you face.

    Jim> You need to re-read what I've been writing.

I've read what you've written carefully, see above for evidence.  You
may need to be more careful to write what you mean more precisely, but
that's not my problem---it's hard enough to respond accurately to
what's there in black and white.

Regarding the inflation of costs, you imply that schedule estimation
is costless and accurate enough to save you from overtime work.  It is
neither.  I've told you so, and you simply ignore that.  That is
deprecating others' costs.  Note that you are quite welcome to back up
your opinion and contest mine; I'm not Watts Humphrey.  You simply
haven't tried.  I'd ignore you, but there are altogether too many
people out there who believe the things you do, and your statements
(especially the implicit ones) should be debunked.

As to inflating your costs, that's a lot more controversial, and in
the end you're the expert.  But given that for a project like Mailman
security risks are fairly rare (a couple times a year at most), I
suppose it comes out in the wash with all of Mr. Murphy's other
attacks on your spare time.

-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Jan 29 17:28:05 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 01:28:05 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Verifying posts
In-Reply-To: <43DBBA93.7030906@yahoo.com> (Jim Popovitch's message of "Sat,
	28 Jan 2006 13:40:19 -0500")
References: <43DBBA93.7030906@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <87slr72e3u.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Jim" == Jim Popovitch <jimpop at yahoo.com> writes:

    Jim> Hi all, I've been looking into TMDA (http://tmda.net) and got
    Jim> to wondering if something like this (or a subset of it)
    Jim> should be incorporated into Mailman.

There was a thread about this in the fairly recent past, perhaps it
was on mailman-developers, though.  IIRC the consensus was "making
this more trouble than it's worth is not going to be easy".

In the interest of preempting a flamewar, let me note here that
challenge-response systems are a hot button for at least one of the
frequent posters on this list, and it would be a good idea to review
past threads and be prepared for those arguments.

There was another thread on mailman-developers about a month ago
regarding the idea of weeding out unused addresses, although the
policy proposed there was significantly more aggressive.


-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Jan 29 18:38:18 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 18:38:18 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Verifying posts
In-Reply-To: <87slr72e3u.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <43DBBA93.7030906@yahoo.com>
	<87slr72e3u.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06200767c002ab1d1827@[10.0.1.210]>

At 1:28 AM +0900 2006-01-30, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>  There was a thread about this in the fairly recent past, perhaps it
>  was on mailman-developers, though.  IIRC the consensus was "making
>  this more trouble than it's worth is not going to be easy".

	There is a FAQ entry on how to integrate Mailman with TMDA. 
IIRC, it is one of the longest, most extensive, and most complex FAQ 
entries.

>  In the interest of preempting a flamewar, let me note here that
>  challenge-response systems are a hot button for at least one of the
>  frequent posters on this list, and it would be a good idea to review
>  past threads and be prepared for those arguments.

	I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm pretty violently opposed 
to TMDA in general.

>  There was another thread on mailman-developers about a month ago
>  regarding the idea of weeding out unused addresses, although the
>  policy proposed there was significantly more aggressive.

	I'm not sure I would be opposed to a feature where posts to a 
list that result in moderation would require a confirmation before 
being displayed in the moderation queue (thus eliminating most spam 
where the sender's address is forged), but that's about as far as I 
would go.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jan 29 19:38:22 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 10:38:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 1 xxx moderator request(s) waiting
In-Reply-To: <43DC82EA.8291B934@pi4cc.nl>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601291038220812f6cefa02@msapiro>

Peter wrote:
>
>=========Waring message everyday=============
>
>The xxx at pi4cc.nl mailing list has 1 request(s) waiting for your
>consideration at:
>
>        http://xxx/cgi-bin/mailman/admindb/xxx
>
>Please attend to this at your earliest convenience.  This notice of
>pending requests, if any, will be sent out daily.
>
>
>Pending posts:
>From: xxx at planet.nl on Thu Jan 12 15:15:41 2006
>Subject: 1
>Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list
>
>
>=====output of  bin/dumpdb lists/xxx/request.pck ====
>
>[----- start pickle file -----]
><----- start object 1 ----->
>{'version': (0, 1)}
>[----- end pickle file -----]
>
>=========================================

Somewhere in your system is a crontab that is running a cron/checkdbs
that's in a different directory and reporting on a different
lists/xxx/request.pck file.

I.e. you have or once had a Mailman installed in a different place and
this email is coming from that Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jp at pifiu.com  Sun Jan 29 19:53:43 2006
From: jp at pifiu.com (Jp Possenti)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 13:53:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a workaround to this?
Message-ID: <20060129185353.416951E4003@bag.python.org>

I have been reading throughout the web and it seems that when one is reading
a mailing list in Outlook, Mailman does something like this:
 
http://www.washington.edu/computing/mailman/faqs/mailman.header.html
 
Is there a work-around to that yet?
 
Kind regards,
 
Jp
 


From Neilrey.Espino at FundSERV.com  Sun Jan 29 19:57:56 2006
From: Neilrey.Espino at FundSERV.com (Neilrey Espino)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 13:57:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Lists not getting emails from internal domain
Message-ID: <CBDB236C3C437A43BF5D93D66E58929A028BB416@pegasus.fundserv.com>

Hi,

I have successfully migrated our Mailman to a new server. All seem to
work perfectly on the existing Lists. 

However when, I created a new list, somehow emails coming from the
internet are being accepted/relayed and bounced properly but email
coming from my own  domain indicates "unknown user".

Example :

Domain name 	  :  network.com
Mailing list Server : lists.network.com



I updated the /etc/aliases as well.

Thanks in advance.

Neilrey


From jp at pifiu.com  Sun Jan 29 19:56:03 2006
From: jp at pifiu.com (Jp Possenti)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 13:56:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How hard is it to spoof an email?
Message-ID: <20060129185614.605901E4003@bag.python.org>

How hard would it be for someone to maliciously start sending all the users
in my list emails or start deleting people from it by sending bounce errors
or by spoofing the admin email and start emailing everyone on the list?
Is this a common problem, or is mailman secure about it? What are some ways
to help avoid any problems?
Please explain carefully and with plenty of details as I am still figuring
things out.
 
Kind regards,
 
Jp


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jan 29 20:07:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 11:07:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a workaround to this?
In-Reply-To: <20060129185353.416951E4003@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC174020060129110728031212423954@msapiro>

Jp Possenti wrote:

>I have been reading throughout the web and it seems that when one is reading
>a mailing list in Outlook, Mailman does something like this:
> 
>http://www.washington.edu/computing/mailman/faqs/mailman.header.html
> 
>Is there a work-around to that yet?


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jan 29 20:13:39 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 11:13:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Lists not getting emails from internal
	domain
In-Reply-To: <CBDB236C3C437A43BF5D93D66E58929A028BB416@pegasus.fundserv.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060129111339032804d1276f@msapiro>

Neilrey Espino wrote:
>
>I have successfully migrated our Mailman to a new server. All seem to
>work perfectly on the existing Lists. 
>
>However when, I created a new list, somehow emails coming from the
>internet are being accepted/relayed and bounced properly but email
>coming from my own  domain indicates "unknown user".

This appears to be an issue with how your incoming MTA treats mail from
your own domain (localhost?) vs. the internet. That would be an MTA
configuration issue which would be better addressed on a list or other
resource specific to your MTA.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jan 29 20:17:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 11:17:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How hard is it to spoof an email?
In-Reply-To: <20060129185614.605901E4003@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601291117430171124238d6@msapiro>

Jp Possenti wrote:

>How hard would it be for someone to maliciously start sending all the users
>in my list emails or start deleting people from it by sending bounce errors
>or by spoofing the admin email and start emailing everyone on the list?


It all depends on how your list is set up.


>Is this a common problem, or is mailman secure about it? What are some ways
>to help avoid any problems?


Go to the FAQ wizard
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
and search for spoof.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jp at pifiu.com  Sun Jan 29 20:18:12 2006
From: jp at pifiu.com (Jp Possenti)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 14:18:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a workaround to this?
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060129110728031212423954@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060129191818.5758C1E4003@bag.python.org>

So basically there is none yet. Hopefully in the future there will be. I
don't want to hack anything really, just don't feel comfortable enough, and
it maybe breaking something else in the long run after an upgrade or update.

Kind regards,
 
Jp 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 2:07 PM
To: jp at pifiu.com; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Is there a workaround to this?

Jp Possenti wrote:

>I have been reading throughout the web and it seems that when one is
reading
>a mailing list in Outlook, Mailman does something like this:
> 
>http://www.washington.edu/computing/mailman/faqs/mailman.header.html
> 
>Is there a work-around to that yet?


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan







From jp at pifiu.com  Sun Jan 29 20:24:23 2006
From: jp at pifiu.com (Jp Possenti)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 14:24:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why are footers sent as attachments?
Message-ID: <20060129192435.18F5D1E4003@bag.python.org>

Why is it that when I set Mailman to apply a footer with some info, Outlook
detects it as an attachment?
Is this yet another problem with just outlook?
 
Also does the footer in mailman support HTML?
 
I want to make it so at the bottom of every email I can include a reply to
address for them to unsubscribe.
 
This sort of leads me to my next question.
 
To have a user unsubscribe without seeing the web interface and just by
email, which would be the right command?
 
Listname-leave at domain.com
List-unsubscribe at domain.com
 
 
Or are there more?
Also does anything need to be written in the subject line? If not, what if
someone writes something or writes something that is not right, will it
still unsubscribe them?
 
I would like to state that if they want to be removed, to please "click
here" to send an email to unsubscribe.
 
 
Kind regards,
 
Jp 
 


From jp at pifiu.com  Sun Jan 29 20:38:20 2006
From: jp at pifiu.com (Jp Possenti)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 14:38:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How hard is it to spoof an email?
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601291117430171124238d6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060129193825.585171E4003@bag.python.org>

I have a couple of questions regarding that FAQ link:

1. Setting the max_num_recipients to 1 will mean that any time I make a
newsletter to the public, I need to login and approve that request, correct?

I am just confused about the wording of the command. Does that mean that the
message will go through but just to 1 person in the list and the other say
499 people will not receive it?

I apologize for the ignorance.

2.  For setting everyone's moderation bit on, I can figure that out as it's
an option under General -> Additional settings. But for the second part
regarding posting using an approved:header I don't see that option anywhere.
How would this work?


Kind regards,
 
Jp


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 2:18 PM
To: jp at pifiu.com; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] How hard is it to spoof an email?

Jp Possenti wrote:

>How hard would it be for someone to maliciously start sending all the users
>in my list emails or start deleting people from it by sending bounce errors
>or by spoofing the admin email and start emailing everyone on the list?


It all depends on how your list is set up.


>Is this a common problem, or is mailman secure about it? What are some ways
>to help avoid any problems?


Go to the FAQ wizard
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
and search for spoof.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan







From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jan 29 21:18:12 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 12:18:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why are footers sent as attachments?
In-Reply-To: <20060129192435.18F5D1E4003@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601291218120343ee9ef263@msapiro>

Jp Possenti wrote:

>Why is it that when I set Mailman to apply a footer with some info, Outlook
>detects it as an attachment?
>Is this yet another problem with just outlook?
> 
>Also does the footer in mailman support HTML?


Please read the FAQ. A search of the FAQ for footer should turn up the
answers to both these questions.


>I want to make it so at the bottom of every email I can include a reply to
>address for them to unsubscribe.
> 
>This sort of leads me to my next question.
> 
>To have a user unsubscribe without seeing the web interface and just by
>email, which would be the right command?
> 
>Listname-leave at domain.com
>List-unsubscribe at domain.com


Either one, they're synonymous (assuming List and Listname are
synonymous).


>Or are there more?


Send an unsubscribe command to list-request at ...


>Also does anything need to be written in the subject line? If not, what if
>someone writes something or writes something that is not right, will it
>still unsubscribe them?


For the first two, the subject is ignored so the answer to your second
question is yes.


>I would like to state that if they want to be removed, to please "click
>here" to send an email to unsubscribe.


You can simply put some text and <mailto:list-unsubscribe at example.com>,
but whether or not this will be 'clickable' depends entirely on the
recipient's MUA. Even if you make the footer look like HTML, it will
be in a text/plain part of the message so it won't be rendered as HTML.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jp at pifiu.com  Sun Jan 29 21:31:37 2006
From: jp at pifiu.com (Jp Possenti)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 15:31:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why are footers sent as attachments?
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601291218120343ee9ef263@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060129203143.EB0CE1E400A@bag.python.org>

Mark,

If I decide to do the one that is like this:

List-request at domain.com

The "command" goes in the subject or body?

In this case unsubscribe would be in which? Or does it not matter?

Kind regards,
 
Jp Possenti


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 3:18 PM
To: jp at pifiu.com; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Why are footers sent as attachments?

Jp Possenti wrote:

>Why is it that when I set Mailman to apply a footer with some info, Outlook
>detects it as an attachment?
>Is this yet another problem with just outlook?
> 
>Also does the footer in mailman support HTML?


Please read the FAQ. A search of the FAQ for footer should turn up the
answers to both these questions.


>I want to make it so at the bottom of every email I can include a reply to
>address for them to unsubscribe.
> 
>This sort of leads me to my next question.
> 
>To have a user unsubscribe without seeing the web interface and just by
>email, which would be the right command?
> 
>Listname-leave at domain.com
>List-unsubscribe at domain.com


Either one, they're synonymous (assuming List and Listname are
synonymous).


>Or are there more?


Send an unsubscribe command to list-request at ...


>Also does anything need to be written in the subject line? If not, what if
>someone writes something or writes something that is not right, will it
>still unsubscribe them?


For the first two, the subject is ignored so the answer to your second
question is yes.


>I would like to state that if they want to be removed, to please "click
>here" to send an email to unsubscribe.


You can simply put some text and <mailto:list-unsubscribe at example.com>,
but whether or not this will be 'clickable' depends entirely on the
recipient's MUA. Even if you make the footer look like HTML, it will
be in a text/plain part of the message so it won't be rendered as HTML.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan







From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jan 29 21:42:18 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 12:42:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How hard is it to spoof an email?
In-Reply-To: <20060129193825.585171E4003@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006012912421805152ce6b035@msapiro>

Jp Possenti wrote:

>I have a couple of questions regarding that FAQ link:
>
>1. Setting the max_num_recipients to 1 will mean that any time I make a
>newsletter to the public, I need to login and approve that request, correct?


Maybe. See below.


>I am just confused about the wording of the command. Does that mean that the
>message will go through but just to 1 person in the list and the other say
>499 people will not receive it?


No, it means that any message that is sent to the list with more than 0
(1 or more) addresses in the To: and Cc: headers combined, that
message will be held for moderator approval unless it contains an
Approved: header.

Note that it is quite possible to send a message with 0 addresses in
To: and Cc: which is why if you choose this option, you need to also
set require_explicit_destination to Yes so that posts with 0
recipients will be held too.


>2.  For setting everyone's moderation bit on, I can figure that out as it's
>an option under General -> Additional settings.


Actually that's emergency moderation. Normally what you do is set
default_member_moderation to Yes on Privacy options...->Sender filters
so ne members are moderated and then set all existing members
moderated under Additional Member Tasks on Membership
Management...->Membership List.


>But for the second part
>regarding posting using an approved:header I don't see that option anywhere.


This works with either option above. It is not a list setting. In order
to bypass moderation of a post that would normally be held for any of
the above reasons, you can put a header

Approved: list_password

in the message you send to the list. You can also put this in the first
line of the body of the post (as long as it's plain text). The header
will be removed, and as long as the list_password is correct, the post
will bypass the hold and will be delivered directly to the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jan 29 22:02:14 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 13:02:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why are footers sent as attachments?
In-Reply-To: <20060129203143.EB0CE1E400A@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601291302140359fb6d5d75@msapiro>

Jp Possenti wrote:
>
>If I decide to do the one that is like this:
>
>List-request at domain.com
>
>The "command" goes in the subject or body?
>
>In this case unsubscribe would be in which? Or does it not matter?


The '-request' processing processes the Subject: and the first
mm_cfg.DEFAULT_MAIL_COMMANDS_MAX_LINES (default value = 25) lines of
the body. If the subject is not a valid command, it is ignored. After
that, the first line which is not a vaild command stops the process.

So the short answer is it doesn't matter.

send the command

help

to the -request address for documentation of the available commands.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 29 22:04:07 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 16:04:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Verifying posts
In-Reply-To: <p06200767c002ab1d1827@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <43DBBA93.7030906@yahoo.com>
	<87slr72e3u.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06200767c002ab1d1827@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <43DD2DC7.3000605@yahoo.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 1:28 AM +0900 2006-01-30, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> 
>>  There was a thread about this in the fairly recent past, perhaps it
>>  was on mailman-developers, though.  IIRC the consensus was "making
>>  this more trouble than it's worth is not going to be easy".
> 
>     There is a FAQ entry on how to integrate Mailman with TMDA. IIRC, it 
> is one of the longest, most extensive, and most complex FAQ entries.

Yeah, I was trying to avoid that here too.  TDMA is overkill for what I 
described.

>>  In the interest of preempting a flamewar, let me note here that
>>  challenge-response systems are a hot button for at least one of the
>>  frequent posters on this list, and it would be a good idea to review
>>  past threads and be prepared for those arguments.
> 
>     I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm pretty violently opposed to 
> TMDA in general.

I am too for the most part, but I do see the need to periodically 
validate a poster's intention.  I see lists all the time where people 
who never would post (receive only) mistakenly hit Reply-All and send 
personal comments to the whole list.  This feature would be a good thing 
for *them* (I'm not solely looking at this from my perspective)

>>  There was another thread on mailman-developers about a month ago
>>  regarding the idea of weeding out unused addresses, although the
>>  policy proposed there was significantly more aggressive.
> 
>     I'm not sure I would be opposed to a feature where posts to a list 
> that result in moderation would require a confirmation before being 
> displayed in the moderation queue (thus eliminating most spam where the 
> sender's address is forged), but that's about as far as I would go.

That would work too, although I would then want to be able to auto-mod 
posters who don't post frequently. ;-)

-Jim P.



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 29 22:10:18 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 16:10:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <p06200760c0024b0291b0@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <PC1740200601261956370671540c7a64@msapiro>
	<43D9B713.4000506@yahoo.com>	<p06200750bfff9c4b9db6@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43D9F504.1070500@yahoo.com>
	<8764o576yy.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DA8592.1010304@yahoo.com>
	<8764o554qj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DB046E.9000403@yahoo.com>
	<p0620075cc000f100788e@[10.0.1.210]> <43DB8E4A.50109@yahoo.com>
	<p0620075fc00167f25987@[10.0.1.210]> <43DBC1ED.3080209@yahoo.com>
	<p06200760c0024b0291b0@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <43DD2F3A.9050903@yahoo.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 2:11 PM -0500 2006-01-28, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> 
>>  The whole reason for me waxing so passionately on this thread is the
>>  earlier suggestion that Diana shouldn't have even emailed mailman-users,
>>  but rather mailman-security and kept it quiet thereafter (this after it
>>  was already released over at securityfocus.com).
> 
>     Correct.  See FAQ 1.27.  That is the official Security Policy of 
> this mailing list, and that information is included in the footer of 
> every single mail message which passes through this list.

But, Diana wasn't emailing sensitive info.  She was asking a very 
important question about something that was already public.  You then 
told her that she should have gone to the secret-handshake club.  Are 
you suggesting that all "Hey, has this been fixed yet" questions should 
be off list and only one-on-one with mailman-security?

>     In this case, no harm was done, since the bug had already been 
> "fixed" through the work that Tokio had done in creating the next 
> release of the code, and the real problem was the disconnect in what we 
> were calling the bug and what they were calling it.  But the potential 
> was certainly there.
> 
>     But if you can't adhere to the official Security Policy of this 
> mailing list, then you shouldn't be posting here, and you shouldn't be 
> subscribed.

er, Right.... (the elitism really shines through Brad).

-Jim P.





From lists05 at equinephotoart.com  Sun Jan 29 21:15:56 2006
From: lists05 at equinephotoart.com (JC Dill)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 12:15:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How hard is it to spoof an email?
In-Reply-To: <20060129193825.585171E4003@bag.python.org>
References: <20060129193825.585171E4003@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <43DD227C.1000104@equinephotoart.com>

Jp Possenti wrote:
> I have a couple of questions regarding that FAQ link:
> 
> 1. Setting the max_num_recipients to 1 will mean that any time I make a
> newsletter to the public, I need to login and approve that request, correct?

The number of "recipients" is the number of addresses in the email you 
compose.  When you sent this message (that I'm replying to), you 
addressed it to mailman-users at python.org which is just ONE recipient. 
(To the mailman server, this message had only one recipient.)  If you 
had sent this message to mailman-users at python.org and also to the author 
of the message you were replying to (via To or CC), then to the mailman 
server this message would have had two recipients.

The max_num setting is used to help prevent users from sending messages 
addressed "to" (or "cc") many different addresses in a single message. 
In most case such messages are not messages you want distributed to your 
list.  This setting is usually used for discussion lists and the default 
is left alone for announcement lists because you control who and how the 
posts go to your list by using moderation and approved passwords, rather 
than by limiting the number of recipients in the initial email.

> I am just confused about the wording of the command. Does that mean that the
> message will go through but just to 1 person in the list and the other say
> 499 people will not receive it?

No, it does not do that and there is no setting to do that.

> 2.  For setting everyone's moderation bit on, I can figure that out as it's
> an option under General -> Additional settings. But for the second part
> regarding posting using an approved:header I don't see that option anywhere.
> How would this work?

I just updated the announcement list FAQ:

<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=approved+header&querytype=simple&casefold=yes&req=search>

to include:


   The approved header or first line has the following format:

        Approved: <password>

   If you are using this on the first line of your post, follow it
   with a blank line.  Mailman will recognize it as the "header" and
   remove it from the body. Follow it with a blank line because the
   line following the Approved: line is removed too (in Mailman 2.1.4
   anyway).


I don't know how HTML formatting and other email client oddities may 
affect using the approved header in the first line of your post so I 
can't be certain that this will work perfectly for you on your first 
try.  I've seen it happen where someone got confused, didn't use the 
approved header as a first line correctly, then approved the message 
using the web interface only to discover their message distributed to 
the whole list with the password included in the message.  So it's 
usually a good idea to use a test list with 2 or 3 subscribers and 
practice using the "first line of your post" approved password system a 
few times so you can be sure that it works as you expect before you try 
to use it on a large distribution list.

jc


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 29 22:31:07 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 16:31:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How hard is it to spoof an email?
In-Reply-To: <20060129185614.605901E4003@bag.python.org>
References: <20060129185614.605901E4003@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <43DD341B.8070000@yahoo.com>

Jp Possenti wrote:
> How hard would it be for someone to maliciously start sending all the users
> in my list emails or start deleting people from it by sending bounce errors

It's not hard at all.  In fact it's quite easy.  This is because the raw 
archive data is available to the public.  See this FAQ: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.066.htp

> or by spoofing the admin email and start emailing everyone on the list?

That's not hard at all either, although you probably shouldn't have your 
admin email as a list member.  Of course, the spammer could just use any 
of your subscribers email addresses including the valid ones that 
haven't posted in 4 years (*cough*, *cough*).  See the recent "Verifying 
posts" thread.

> Is this a common problem, or is mailman secure about it? What are some ways
> to help avoid any problems?

Use an MTA that supports DKIM and/or SPF.  These standards help to 
verify who the sender is.  So if bob at aol.com posts to your list, SPF 
will verify that the email came from an approved aol.com server, not 
something like 24.16.8.101-home.dsl.cox.net.  DKIM takes it a step 
further and adds an encrypted email header "key" that is carried with 
the email during it's entire journey through multiple servers.  This key 
enables every "hop" to validate the email, whereas SPF is just 
point-to-point validation based on email header info (which can very 
easily be modified in transit).

> Please explain carefully and with plenty of details as I am still figuring
> things out.

Heck, that should be SOP for everyone.  ;-)

-Jim P.




From jp at pifiu.com  Sun Jan 29 22:50:00 2006
From: jp at pifiu.com (Jp Possenti)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 16:50:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How hard is it to spoof an email?
In-Reply-To: <43DD341B.8070000@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20060129215006.1D8CF1E4003@bag.python.org>

So basically what you are saying is that Mailman is very insecure? (in
short)

You say I should not have my admin email as a list member. By that you mean
"listname at domain.com" which is the default address as the admin?

If so then what am I supposed to create, and why would creating one make a
difference?

Also which email clients support the KIM and/or SPF standards?

Kind regards,
 
Jp Possenti


-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Popovitch [mailto:jimpop at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 4:31 PM
To: jp at pifiu.com
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] How hard is it to spoof an email?

Jp Possenti wrote:
> How hard would it be for someone to maliciously start sending all the
users
> in my list emails or start deleting people from it by sending bounce
errors

It's not hard at all.  In fact it's quite easy.  This is because the raw 
archive data is available to the public.  See this FAQ: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.066.htp

> or by spoofing the admin email and start emailing everyone on the list?

That's not hard at all either, although you probably shouldn't have your 
admin email as a list member.  Of course, the spammer could just use any 
of your subscribers email addresses including the valid ones that 
haven't posted in 4 years (*cough*, *cough*).  See the recent "Verifying 
posts" thread.

> Is this a common problem, or is mailman secure about it? What are some
ways
> to help avoid any problems?

Use an MTA that supports DKIM and/or SPF.  These standards help to 
verify who the sender is.  So if bob at aol.com posts to your list, SPF 
will verify that the email came from an approved aol.com server, not 
something like 24.16.8.101-home.dsl.cox.net.  DKIM takes it a step 
further and adds an encrypted email header "key" that is carried with 
the email during it's entire journey through multiple servers.  This key 
enables every "hop" to validate the email, whereas SPF is just 
point-to-point validation based on email header info (which can very 
easily be modified in transit).

> Please explain carefully and with plenty of details as I am still figuring
> things out.

Heck, that should be SOP for everyone.  ;-)

-Jim P.








From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 29 23:02:38 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 17:02:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How hard is it to spoof an email?
In-Reply-To: <20060129215006.1D8CF1E4003@bag.python.org>
References: <20060129215006.1D8CF1E4003@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <43DD3B7E.5070907@yahoo.com>

Jp Possenti wrote:
> So basically what you are saying is that Mailman is very insecure? (in
> short)

:-)

Honestly, NO.  Mailman is much more secure, in deed very secure, than 
most software I see.    The integrity of Mailman depends highly on the 
security of your OS, your MTA and your webserver.

> You say I should not have my admin email as a list member. By that you mean
> "listname at domain.com" which is the default address as the admin?

Your admin email would be listname-admin at domain.com.  That address 
doesn't belong in the subscribers list, nor does listname at domain.com.

> If so then what am I supposed to create, and why would creating one make a
> difference?

There is nothing in Mailman that you can create or do to combat email 
spoofing.  Spoofing is not a Mailman problem as Mailman relies on your 
MTA to authenticate email senders (which is correct).  This is a good 
thing as Mailman could get really bloated (more bloated?) if it tried to 
incorporate authenticating senders.

> Also which email clients support the KIM and/or SPF standards?

DKIM and SPF are email server technologies, not client technologies. 
They can help to validate the email traffic coming into your email server.

-Jim P.







From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jan 29 23:40:07 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 14:40:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How hard is it to spoof an email?
In-Reply-To: <43DD341B.8070000@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601291440070937c3f6f5d0@msapiro>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
>
>It's not hard at all.  In fact it's quite easy.  This is because the raw 
>archive data is available to the public.  See this FAQ: 
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.066.htp

Only if the list has public archives. If there are no archives, there
obviously isn't any archive data, and if the archives are private, all
archive data including .txt and .mbox files are only available to list
members or someone who knows a listmember address and password.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jan 29 23:59:21 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 14:59:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How hard is it to spoof an email?
In-Reply-To: <43DD227C.1000104@equinephotoart.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006012914592101253d2ae9f2@msapiro>

JC Dill wrote:
>
>I just updated the announcement list FAQ:
>
><http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=approved+header&querytype=simple&casefold=yes&req=search>
>
>to include:
>
<snip>


Thanks JC


>I don't know how HTML formatting and other email client oddities may 
>affect using the approved header in the first line of your post so I 
>can't be certain that this will work perfectly for you on your first 
>try.


In Mailman 2.1.6 and earlier, the Approved: line was only found and
removed if it was the first non-blank line in the first text/plain
part of the post (and the line following was removed too.). If the
post was multipart/alternative with say a text/plain part and a
text/html part, the Approved: line would only be removed from the
text/plain part. Thus, if the text/html part was not removed by
content filtering, the Approved: line would go to the list in the
text/html part.

Beginning in Mailman 2.1.7, this has been improved. An Approved: body
line must still be the first non-blank line in the first text/plain
part. Thus, you still can't post an html only message with an
Approved: body line. However, the line following the Approved: line is
no longer removed so it is no longer necessary to follow it with a
blank line. Also, once the Approved: line is found in the first
text/plain part, an attempt is made to remove it from every text/*
part in the post.

I say 'attempt' because while I'm sure it will be removed from a
text/html part, I'm not so sure that the pattern I use to find it will
match in a text/enriched, text/rtf, text/richtext or similar
alternative part. Thus, testing on a small test list is always a good
idea.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jan 30 00:09:35 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 15:09:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How hard is it to spoof an email?
In-Reply-To: <43DD3B7E.5070907@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006012915093507965e8df7bf@msapiro>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
>
>> You say I should not have my admin email as a list member. By that you mean
>> "listname at domain.com" which is the default address as the admin?
>
>Your admin email would be listname-admin at domain.com.  That address 
>doesn't belong in the subscribers list, nor does listname at domain.com.

To clarify:

The address listname-admin at domain.com doesn't go to a human in Mailman
2.1.x. It is a synonym for listname-bounces at domain.com. The generic
address to reach the owners (admins/moderators) is
listname-owner at domain.com.

I don't think Jim was saying that address (listname-owner at domain.com)
should not be a list member. It shouldn't, but I think what Jim was
saying is that the actual admin/owner email address(es) - i.e. the
ones that appear on the bottom of the listinfo page as

XYZ list run by jdoe at example.com

should not be list members (or at least not unmoderated members)
because otherwise you are advertising an address that can be spoofed
to post to the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From justbrits at comcast.net  Mon Jan 30 00:26:02 2006
From: justbrits at comcast.net (Ed)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 17:26:02 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How hard is it to spoof an email?
References: <20060129215006.1D8CF1E4003@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <007301c6252b$6066d050$6701a8c0@actualshop>

If I may, Mark -;).....

<<You say I should not have my admin email as a list member. By that you
mean
"listname at domain.com" which is the default address as the admin?>>

I don't think that's correct??

<<If so then what am I supposed to create, and why would creating one make a
difference?>>

Even tho I only have 4 Lists with not even a total of 200 folks I have an
"alias" on each one.
I have a seperate file folder with a Rule that puts List Mail there.

That, although somewhat of a PITA, I KNOW things are working correctly.

When I get one post in Reg mail and non is "alias" folder OR vice versa, I
know something is wrong.

Newbie Ed



From dspreadbury at gmail.com  Mon Jan 30 01:02:16 2006
From: dspreadbury at gmail.com (Daniel Spreadbury)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 00:02:16 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie question regarding multiple domains with one
	Mailman installation
Message-ID: <e127c9e20601291602l53f258c2j@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks,

Apologies if this is covered in the Mailman docs or the FAQs, but I'm having
problems finding any concrete information.

I've installed Mailman via the FreeBSD ports collection on my FreeBSD server
(running 4.7). My MTA is Exim 4.22, and my web server is Apache 1.3.x.

I currently have mailman in /usr/local/mailman, and my web server has a
virtual host at http://lists.dom.ain/ that points at this installation. My
lists therefore have addresses like mailing-list at lists.dom.ain.

I run a number of different virtual domains from my server, and would like
to be able to run mailing lists for each of them, but using their domain
names. I don't care about the limitation that they can't use the same list
name -- the number of lists will be small, and that's an avoidable problem.

So what do I need to do to run e.g. mailing-list-alpha at dom.ain and
mailing-list-beta at another.domain from the same Mailman installation on my
server?

Any pointers very gratefully received!

Thanks,

Daniel


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jan 30 01:42:30 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 16:42:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie question regarding multiple domains with
	oneMailman installation
In-Reply-To: <e127c9e20601291602l53f258c2j@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601291642300468fd0e45f2@msapiro>

Daniel Spreadbury wrote:
>
>Apologies if this is covered in the Mailman docs or the FAQs, but I'm having
>problems finding any concrete information.


Searching the FAQ wizard at
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
for

virtual

will return some relevant information including FAQs 4.29. 4.47 and
4.62.


>I've installed Mailman via the FreeBSD ports collection on my FreeBSD server
>(running 4.7). My MTA is Exim 4.22, and my web server is Apache 1.3.x.


Mailman version? :-)


>I currently have mailman in /usr/local/mailman, and my web server has a
>virtual host at http://lists.dom.ain/ that points at this installation. My
>lists therefore have addresses like mailing-list at lists.dom.ain.
>
>I run a number of different virtual domains from my server, and would like
>to be able to run mailing lists for each of them, but using their domain
>names. I don't care about the limitation that they can't use the same list
>name -- the number of lists will be small, and that's an avoidable problem.
>
>So what do I need to do to run e.g. mailing-list-alpha at dom.ain and
>mailing-list-beta at another.domain from the same Mailman installation on my
>server?


Either put the Mailman specific alias and scriptalias, etc stuff in
each virtual host section in the web server config, or put it
somewhere where it will apply to all hosts.

Put directives like:

add_virtualhost('dom.ain', 'dom.ain')
add_virtualhost('another.domain','another.domain')

in mm_cfg.py. This assumes you will access the web pages via
http://dom.ain/..., as well as emailing mailing-list-alpha at dom.ain,
i.e., that the web domain and the email domain are the same for the
hosts. If not, the generic form is

add_virtualhost('web.dom.ain', 'email.dom.ain')

Then when you create lists for these domains, they will only appear on
listinfo and admin overview pages accessed from that domain and web
links and email addresses for those lists will all use the list's
domain.

And read the FAQs mentioned above.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jan 30 01:25:18 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 01:25:18 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a workaround to this?
In-Reply-To: <20060129185353.416951E4003@bag.python.org>
References: <20060129185353.416951E4003@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <p0620076cc0030d4619fe@[10.0.1.210]>

At 1:53 PM -0500 2006-01-29, Jp Possenti wrote:

>  I have been reading throughout the web and it seems that when one is reading
>  a mailing list in Outlook, Mailman does something like this:
>
>  http://www.washington.edu/computing/mailman/faqs/mailman.header.html
>
>  Is there a work-around to that yet?

	Have you fixed your MUA yet?

	It's an MUA problem, and can only be fixed in the MUA.  Until the 
MUA is fixed, then this situation will persist.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jan 30 01:39:04 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 01:39:04 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How hard is it to spoof an email?
In-Reply-To: <20060129185614.605901E4003@bag.python.org>
References: <20060129185614.605901E4003@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <p0620076dc0030d7925bb@[10.0.1.210]>

At 1:56 PM -0500 2006-01-29, Jp Possenti wrote:

>  How hard would it be for someone to maliciously start sending all the users
>  in my list emails or start deleting people from it by sending bounce errors
>  or by spoofing the admin email and start emailing everyone on the list?

	It's trivially easy to spoof e-mail addresses.  Mailman works 
around that by allowing you to configure your list to be more secure 
and require confirmations for certain commands, or by sending its own 
confirmation e-mail once an action has taken place.

	The attacker may be able to spoof your e-mail address, but unless 
they can also access your mailbox, they can't see the unique 
confirmation string that they have to duplicate before the system 
will take the action in question, or to delete the notice that 
Mailman sends to the recipient.

>  Is this a common problem, or is mailman secure about it? What are some ways
>  to help avoid any problems?

	It all depends on how secure you want your list to be.  Part of 
the problem is that the more security features of this sort that you 
turn on, the more cumbersome it will be for people to post or 
subscribe to the list, change their address once subscribed, etc....

	You want to strike a balance here between securing your system 
against spoofing and making it too difficult to use.

>  Please explain carefully and with plenty of details as I am still figuring
>  things out.

	I'm not sure how much more I can explain, or precisely which part 
it is that you're most concerned about.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jan 30 01:43:22 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 01:43:22 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why are footers sent as attachments?
In-Reply-To: <20060129192435.18F5D1E4003@bag.python.org>
References: <20060129192435.18F5D1E4003@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <p0620076ec0031111fd64@[10.0.1.210]>

At 2:24 PM -0500 2006-01-29, Jp Possenti wrote:

>  Why is it that when I set Mailman to apply a footer with some info, Outlook
>  detects it as an attachment?
>  Is this yet another problem with just outlook?

	Outlook and certain other MUAs, yes.

>  Also does the footer in mailman support HTML?

	Nope.

>  I want to make it so at the bottom of every email I can include a reply to
>  address for them to unsubscribe.

	Like we do for this mailing list?

>  This sort of leads me to my next question.
>
>  To have a user unsubscribe without seeing the web interface and just by
>  email, which would be the right command?
>
>  Listname-leave at domain.com
>  List-unsubscribe at domain.com

	More like the header we put on every message that passes through this list:

List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>,
	<mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=unsubscribe>

>  Or are there more?
>  Also does anything need to be written in the subject line? If not, what if
>  someone writes something or writes something that is not right, will it
>  still unsubscribe them?
>
>  I would like to state that if they want to be removed, to please "click
>  here" to send an email to unsubscribe.

	You can't write your own HTML there, so no "click here" type 
language is going to work.  You can do the same sorts of things that 
you see in the messages which pass through this list, however -- try 
taking a closer look at the copies you receive.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jan 30 01:52:51 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 01:52:51 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <43DD2F3A.9050903@yahoo.com>
References: <PC1740200601261956370671540c7a64@msapiro>
	<43D9B713.4000506@yahoo.com>	<p06200750bfff9c4b9db6@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43D9F504.1070500@yahoo.com>
	<8764o576yy.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DA8592.1010304@yahoo.com>
	<8764o554qj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DB046E.9000403@yahoo.com> <p0620075cc000f100788e@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43DB8E4A.50109@yahoo.com> <p0620075fc00167f25987@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43DBC1ED.3080209@yahoo.com> <p06200760c0024b0291b0@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43DD2F3A.9050903@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p0620076fc00312594a64@[10.0.1.210]>

At 4:10 PM -0500 2006-01-29, Jim Popovitch wrote:

>  But, Diana wasn't emailing sensitive info.  She was asking a very
>  important question about something that was already public.  You then
>  told her that she should have gone to the secret-handshake club.  Are
>  you suggesting that all "Hey, has this been fixed yet" questions
>  should be off list and only one-on-one with mailman-security?

	I don't care about the content of this most recent incident.  I 
care that the process we specified in FAQ 1.27 wasn't followed.  In 
this case, no harm was done.  But in the previous case where someone 
did something like this, a great deal of harm was caused.

	I care that the proper procedures be followed.


	It's like playing Russian Roulette.  This time, the chamber was 
empty.  Next time, it might not be.

>  er, Right.... (the elitism really shines through Brad).

	If we insist that everyone follow the proper procedure every 
time, then we shouldn't have any problems.  But if you can't (or 
won't) follow the proper procedures, then I think it's perfectly 
reasonable to ask that you go somewhere else.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jan 30 01:55:23 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 01:55:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How hard is it to spoof an email?
In-Reply-To: <43DD341B.8070000@yahoo.com>
References: <20060129185614.605901E4003@bag.python.org>
	<43DD341B.8070000@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06200770c0031408af51@[10.0.1.210]>

At 4:31 PM -0500 2006-01-29, Jim Popovitch wrote:

>                                                DKIM takes it a step
>  further and adds an encrypted email header "key" that is carried with
>  the email during it's entire journey through multiple servers.  This key
>  enables every "hop" to validate the email, whereas SPF is just
>  point-to-point validation based on email header info (which can very
>  easily be modified in transit).

	If you're going to use DKIM, make sure that you are using Mailman 
2.1.7 (or later), with the most recent patches applied.  Prior 
versions of Mailman did not scrub the DKIM headers from messages as 
they were passing through, which meant that the signatures would be 
invalid for the recipients of the mailing lists.  This was fixed in 
2.1.7, but this version also introduced some other issues with 
archives (among others), which have since been patched by Tokio and 
Mark.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jan 30 01:59:33 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 01:59:33 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How hard is it to spoof an email?
In-Reply-To: <20060129215006.1D8CF1E4003@bag.python.org>
References: <20060129215006.1D8CF1E4003@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <p06200771c0031483cc03@[10.0.1.210]>

At 4:50 PM -0500 2006-01-29, Jp Possenti wrote:

>  So basically what you are saying is that Mailman is very insecure? (in
>  short)

	No, not Mailman.  At least, not Mailman per se.  No, *ALL* SMTP 
e-mail is inherently insecure -- unless you add stuff to it to make 
it secure.  HTTP is inherently insecure for the web, which is why you 
use SSL to encrypt the connection and make it safe to transmit 
sensitive information.


	For e-mail, if you care that much about security, you would need 
to encrypt every message you send to the list (e.g., using PGP), the 
list software would need to de-crypt it and then re-encrypt it for 
all of the list recipients.

	If you're not so worried about hiding your message from prying 
eyes but you still want to be certain as to who sent which message, 
then you would need to add a cryptographic signature to all your 
e-mail, and you would need to make sure that this signature survives 
all message transit points and doesn't get munged along the way (a 
common problem with mailing list managers).

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From justbrits at comcast.net  Mon Jan 30 02:21:15 2006
From: justbrits at comcast.net (JustBrits_com)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 19:21:15 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
References: <PC1740200601261956370671540c7a64@msapiro><43D9B713.4000506@yahoo.com>	<p06200750bfff9c4b9db6@[10.0.1.210]><43D9F504.1070500@yahoo.com><8764o576yy.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp><43DA8592.1010304@yahoo.com><8764o554qj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp><43DB046E.9000403@yahoo.com>
	<p0620075cc000f100788e@[10.0.1.210]><43DB8E4A.50109@yahoo.com>
	<p0620075fc00167f25987@[10.0.1.210]><43DBC1ED.3080209@yahoo.com>
	<p06200760c0024b0291b0@[10.0.1.210]><43DD2F3A.9050903@yahoo.com>
	<p0620076fc00312594a64@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <2a9901c6253b$775c1760$6401a8c0@ActualOffice>

<<If we insist that everyone follow the proper procedure every 
time, then we shouldn't have any problems.  But if you can't (or 
won't) follow the proper procedures, then I think it's perfectly 
reasonable to ask that you go somewhere else.>>


THANK you, Brad!!

I think all Admins/Owners have same prob at one time or another-;(

Ed


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Jan 30 03:03:25 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:03:25 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <43DD2F3A.9050903@yahoo.com> (Jim Popovitch's message of "Sun,
	29 Jan 2006 16:10:18 -0500")
References: <PC1740200601261956370671540c7a64@msapiro>
	<43D9B713.4000506@yahoo.com> <p06200750bfff9c4b9db6@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43D9F504.1070500@yahoo.com>
	<8764o576yy.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DA8592.1010304@yahoo.com>
	<8764o554qj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DB046E.9000403@yahoo.com> <p0620075cc000f100788e@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43DB8E4A.50109@yahoo.com> <p0620075fc00167f25987@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43DBC1ED.3080209@yahoo.com> <p06200760c0024b0291b0@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43DD2F3A.9050903@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <87y80yzd3m.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Jim" == Jim Popovitch <jimpop at yahoo.com> writes:

    Jim> She was asking a very important question about something that
    Jim> was already public.

What important question?  It's an easy to execute exploit (in fact, it
occasionally happens due to ordinary mail, that's why it was found and
fixed before anybody asked about the DoS aspect) of very low interest
to black hats and small threat to a well-run site in most cases.
IIRC, it's been discussed on the list (though not as a security
threat).

The only interesting thing that happened was that somebody
sensationalized that problem by labelling it a potential DoS attack.
That doesn't make it important, except to Diana and others following
that channel.  Anybody who hadn't noticed would never notice.

So what is the scenario if Diana posts to mailman-security?  She gets
an answer and nobody ever notices.

And if three people ask on mailman-security?  There's a short post to
mailman-users, and it ends up in the faq, because it's a PITA for the
developers to keep answering it.

What's wrong with that?

    Jim> Are you suggesting that all "Hey, has this been fixed yet"
    Jim> questions should be off list and only one-on-one with
    Jim> mailman-security?

No, only for those defects that are not going to affect users unless
deliberately exploited.  For such security "holes", yes, "discuss only
with mailman-security" is announced policy.

    Jim> er, Right.... (the elitism really shines through Brad).

Please watch your language.  "Elitism" means restricting something to
a select group because of their personal qualifications.  The security
policy, and everything Brad has posted on the matter, says discussion
about potential exploits should be restricted to those with "need to
know", which is defined as "the ability to fix the problem and/or the
authority to distribute 'official' fixes."  This is a functional, not
a personal, qualification.

You're welcome to advocate a different definition of need-to-know, one
which includes large numbers of users who cannot contribute code or
distribute fixes, but the restrictive one above the one in common use
in the developer community.  To my knowledge nobody (in the open
source community) likes the implications for information
dissemination.

I admit that this is my personal interpretation of the discussions
that have gone on (in the Mailman community and elsewhere), but it is
the best I can come up with and honestly intended.  Barry, Tokio, and
Mark are welcome to jointly or severally repudiate it. :-)

-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 30 04:11:06 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 22:11:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <87y80yzd3m.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <PC1740200601261956370671540c7a64@msapiro>	<43D9B713.4000506@yahoo.com>
	<p06200750bfff9c4b9db6@[10.0.1.210]>	<43D9F504.1070500@yahoo.com>	<8764o576yy.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>	<43DA8592.1010304@yahoo.com>	<8764o554qj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>	<43DB046E.9000403@yahoo.com>
	<p0620075cc000f100788e@[10.0.1.210]>	<43DB8E4A.50109@yahoo.com>
	<p0620075fc00167f25987@[10.0.1.210]>	<43DBC1ED.3080209@yahoo.com>
	<p06200760c0024b0291b0@[10.0.1.210]>	<43DD2F3A.9050903@yahoo.com>
	<87y80yzd3m.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <43DD83CA.4020901@yahoo.com>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>>>>>> "Jim" == Jim Popovitch <jimpop at yahoo.com> writes:
> 
> Jim> She was asking a very important question about something that 
> Jim> was already public.
> 
> What important question?

I quote Diana from her original email that sparked this thread:

  "The notice suggests all versions are vulnerable, is this
  the case? If so, suggested workaround? Patch/upgrade coming?"

> It's an easy to execute exploit (in fact, it occasionally happens due
>  to ordinary mail, that's why it was found and fixed before anybody 
> asked about the DoS aspect) of very low interest to black hats and 
> small threat to a well-run site in most cases. IIRC, it's been 
> discussed on the list (though not as a security threat).
> 
> The only interesting thing that happened was that somebody 
> sensationalized that problem by labelling it a potential DoS attack. 
> That doesn't make it important, except to Diana and others following 
> that channel.  Anybody who hadn't noticed would never notice.
> 
> So what is the scenario if Diana posts to mailman-security?  She gets
>  an answer and nobody ever notices.

... and nobody else ever hears of the issue either.  Why is this?  It is 
Because it appears that the current Mailman policy is to suppress
not just information, but also questions, about situations like this.

> And if three people ask on mailman-security?  There's a short post to
>  mailman-users, and it ends up in the faq, because it's a PITA for 
> the developers to keep answering it.
> 
> What's wrong with that?

Nothing, assuming:

    A) Makes it into the FAQ in a timely fashion for it to benefit site
admins
    B) There is some means to notify site admins so that they don't
have to parse through mailman-users to get info on security issues.
I've been subscribed to mailman-announce for 5+ years.  I don't
recall ever seeing anything such as: "FAQ XYZ has been updated", let
alone info on potential vulnerabilities that I should be aware of.

> Jim> Are you suggesting that all "Hey, has this been fixed yet" Jim>
>  questions should be off list and only one-on-one with Jim> 
> mailman-security?
> 
> No, only for those defects that are not going to affect users unless 
> deliberately exploited.  For such security "holes", yes, "discuss 
> only with mailman-security" is announced policy.

And that is good.  Diana's case doesn't seem to meet that measure, yet
that is the advice Brad gave her.  Was that an attempt to suppress this
info from other site admins?

> Jim> er, Right.... (the elitism really shines through Brad).
> 
> Please watch your language.  "Elitism" means restricting something to
>  a select group because of their personal qualifications.

Possibly, in a narrowly defined sense.  I meant it as the rest of the
world uses it: http://www.answers.com/elitism

BTW, just who are the members of mailman-security?

> The security policy, and everything Brad has posted on the matter, 
> says discussion about potential exploits should be restricted to 
> those with "need to know", which is defined as "the ability to fix 
> the problem and/or the authority to distribute 'official' fixes." 
> This is a functional, not a personal, qualification.

And how does that apply to Diana's question?  Clearly she was inquiring
about a fixed issue, right?  If not, shouldn't the answer given to her
also be seen by others in similar situations?

> You're welcome to advocate a different definition of need-to-know, 
> one which includes large numbers of users who cannot contribute code
>  or distribute fixes, but the restrictive one above the one in common
>  use in the developer community.  To my knowledge nobody (in the open
>  source community) likes the implications for information 
> dissemination.

Well it seems to there are two extremes in the Mailman group of
interested folks.  Those that want to know everything, but don't want
anyone else to know it.  And those that are expected to not know
anything until Barry/Tokio/Mark/ etc., tell them to know it.  I just
think there is room for some middle ground.

There is more to Mailman than just users and developers.  There are
those that are responsible for Mailman systems but they aren't the
day-to-day admins of the mailing lists.  I think it is totally
irresponsible to expect that site admins find out on their own if there
are insecurities in the sites they run.  If I am running a Mailman 2.1.6
site, I expect to be informed of vulnerabilities and security concerns
sometime before 2.1.7 is fully released, not just have to read it in the
CHANGES file of 2.1.7.

-Jim P.




From Neilrey.Espino at FundSERV.com  Mon Jan 30 04:16:44 2006
From: Neilrey.Espino at FundSERV.com (Neilrey Espino)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 22:16:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Lists not getting emails from internal
	domain
Message-ID: <CBDB236C3C437A43BF5D93D66E58929A028BB418@pegasus.fundserv.com>

Just realized Mark,,,,  The other lists are actually fine,,,I'm only
having problems with the newly created list. I'm not sure if there's a
typo on the aliases.

What else could I check ?

Thanks,

Neilrey

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 2:14 PM
To: Neilrey Espino; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] New Lists not getting emails from internal
domain

Neilrey Espino wrote:
>
>I have successfully migrated our Mailman to a new server. All seem to
>work perfectly on the existing Lists. 
>
>However when, I created a new list, somehow emails coming from the
>internet are being accepted/relayed and bounced properly but email
>coming from my own  domain indicates "unknown user".

This appears to be an issue with how your incoming MTA treats mail from
your own domain (localhost?) vs. the internet. That would be an MTA
configuration issue which would be better addressed on a list or other
resource specific to your MTA.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 30 04:14:33 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 22:14:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <p0620076fc00312594a64@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <PC1740200601261956370671540c7a64@msapiro>
	<43D9B713.4000506@yahoo.com>	<p06200750bfff9c4b9db6@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43D9F504.1070500@yahoo.com>
	<8764o576yy.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DA8592.1010304@yahoo.com>
	<8764o554qj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DB046E.9000403@yahoo.com>
	<p0620075cc000f100788e@[10.0.1.210]> <43DB8E4A.50109@yahoo.com>
	<p0620075fc00167f25987@[10.0.1.210]> <43DBC1ED.3080209@yahoo.com>
	<p06200760c0024b0291b0@[10.0.1.210]> <43DD2F3A.9050903@yahoo.com>
	<p0620076fc00312594a64@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <43DD8499.508@yahoo.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> If we insist that everyone follow the proper procedure every time, 
> then we shouldn't have any problems.

Well, I disagree with the current procedure, which based on past emails, 
suggests that no one is kept informed about security concerns, and only 
those that hear about one on their own can get a private response by 
emailing mailman-security.

> But if you can't (or won't) follow the proper procedures, then I
> think it's perfectly reasonable to ask that you go somewhere else.

Thanks, I'll think more of you because you think I should go. <sigh>
Perhaps I am not the stumbling block here.

-Jim P.






From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jan 30 04:57:36 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 19:57:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Lists not getting emails from internal
	domain
In-Reply-To: <CBDB236C3C437A43BF5D93D66E58929A028BB418@pegasus.fundserv.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601291957360216ef71aa7c@msapiro>

Neilrey Espino wrote:

>Just realized Mark,,,,  The other lists are actually fine,,,I'm only
>having problems with the newly created list. I'm not sure if there's a
>typo on the aliases.

If mail from the internet reaches the list, then it would seem the
aliases would be OK. If not, there might be a problem with the aliases
or the new aliases may not have been installed properly for the MTA.

You could look for clues at whatever logs the MTA produces.

If old lists are fine, both locally and from the internet, and the new
list is fine from the internet but not locally, then I still think
it's an MTA issue and that the aliases for this new list must somehow
be installed incompletely or differently from the others.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Jan 30 09:12:50 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:12:50 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <43DD83CA.4020901@yahoo.com> (Jim Popovitch's message of "Sun,
	29 Jan 2006 22:11:06 -0500")
References: <PC1740200601261956370671540c7a64@msapiro>
	<43D9B713.4000506@yahoo.com> <p06200750bfff9c4b9db6@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43D9F504.1070500@yahoo.com>
	<8764o576yy.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DA8592.1010304@yahoo.com>
	<8764o554qj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DB046E.9000403@yahoo.com> <p0620075cc000f100788e@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43DB8E4A.50109@yahoo.com> <p0620075fc00167f25987@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43DBC1ED.3080209@yahoo.com> <p06200760c0024b0291b0@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43DD2F3A.9050903@yahoo.com>
	<87y80yzd3m.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DD83CA.4020901@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <878xsyyvzx.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Jim" == Jim Popovitch <jimpop at yahoo.com> writes:

    Jim> BTW, just who are the members of mailman-security?

It's a self-selecting group, though not a terribly secret one; I
believe the membership of that list has been described, if not
explicitly listed, in the past.  But I know Barry well enough to trust
him for this purpose, and that's good enough for me.  Others must make
their own decisions, of course, and my opinion may or may not be
relevant to such decisions for any given person.

    Jim> Well it seems to there are two extremes in the Mailman group
    Jim> of interested folks.  Those that want to know everything, but
    Jim> don't want anyone else to know it.

"Everything"?  That's curious thing to say about people active in an
open source software project, even as an exaggeration.  I think you
have long since let your temper get the better of you!  Now, it has
been said several times (in other words) that those who advocate this
policy dislike it for much the same reasons you do, but also believe
that the one you propose is worse.  Do you disbelieve that?

The statement I (an outsider who observed the discussions that led up
to publication of the FAQ) consider accurate is that those who
drafted the security policy tried to balance their desire to release
*all* information related to Mailman to all who will not use that
information to harm others, with their desire to provide as little
information as possible to those who would use it for irresponsible or
hostile purposes.

    Jim> I think it is totally irresponsible to expect that site
    Jim> admins find out on their own if there are insecurities in the
    Jim> sites they run.

Without accepting that as an accurate characterization of the current
policy, let me say: Good for you!  Take some responsibility for what
you consider to be a problem, then.

Design a system to meet the goals of the security policy and the goal
of informing admins as best as possible.  Tell mailman-security about
it.  Deal with their objections and proposed improvements, and
implement it, including getting yourself sufficiently trusted to be
added to mailman-security if required for your proposal, and
coordinating the announcements (ie, writing the announcement and
getting the approvals from the developers who understand the security
implications of the information to be released, then posting it).
Alternatively, round up one or more volunteers to do the on-going
work.

Don't ask me to do any of it, though.  Sounds like a lot of work,
which I consider unnecessary.

    Jim> If I am running a Mailman 2.1.6 site, I expect

"There you go again!"  I gather you still haven't read Paragraph 11 of
the License under which you received Mailman.

Note that that Paragraph does not say that the developers of Mailman
do not care about these issues.  It says that they will care about
them in the way that they see fit, and you have no legal grounds for
complaint, no matter what that is.  If you want to change the way they
deal with these issues, join them and do the work.  (In many cases,
"convince them to do it" is also appropriate, but in this case the
arguments you make have already been made and were found insufficient,
so jawbone is unlikely to be effective.)

-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Jan 30 09:41:48 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:41:48 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why are footers sent as attachments?
In-Reply-To: <p0620076ec0031111fd64@[10.0.1.210]> (Brad Knowles's message of
	"Mon, 30 Jan 2006 01:43:22 +0100")
References: <20060129192435.18F5D1E4003@bag.python.org>
	<p0620076ec0031111fd64@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <874q3myunn.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Brad" == Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> writes:

    Brad> 	You can't write your own HTML there, so no "click
    Brad> here" type language is going to work.

Strictly speaking, this depends on the MUA, too.  In the message I'm
replying to Gnus added no less than 16 clickable items, including
everything in the footer (every line except the title "Mailman-Users
mailing list").  It's a shame that major vendors concentrated on a
misfeature that allows you to write

<a href="http://www.spyware-hell.com/downloads/">
www.tulips.org</a> has the best selection of garden photos!

in email, instead of teaching their products to snarf URLs out of
text/plain.

-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jan 30 11:40:27 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:40:27 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <43DD8499.508@yahoo.com>
References: <PC1740200601261956370671540c7a64@msapiro>
	<43D9B713.4000506@yahoo.com>	<p06200750bfff9c4b9db6@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43D9F504.1070500@yahoo.com>
	<8764o576yy.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DA8592.1010304@yahoo.com>
	<8764o554qj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DB046E.9000403@yahoo.com> <p0620075cc000f100788e@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43DB8E4A.50109@yahoo.com> <p0620075fc00167f25987@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43DBC1ED.3080209@yahoo.com> <p06200760c0024b0291b0@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43DD2F3A.9050903@yahoo.com> <p0620076fc00312594a64@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43DD8499.508@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06200774c0039cc1bae2@[10.0.1.210]>

At 10:14 PM -0500 2006-01-29, Jim Popovitch wrote:

>  Well, I disagree with the current procedure, which based on past emails,
>  suggests that no one is kept informed about security concerns, and only
>  those that hear about one on their own can get a private response by
>  emailing mailman-security.

	I think our security record is much better than most other 
open-source projects, and I think that we have much more open and 
frank discussions between the principal developers and the 
wheels-meet-the-road admins, owners, and moderators than most other 
open-source projects.

	We don't deserve to be treated like this, especially not by the 
likes of you.

>>  But if you can't (or won't) follow the proper procedures, then I
>>  think it's perfectly reasonable to ask that you go somewhere else.
>
>  Thanks, I'll think more of you because you think I should go. <sigh>

	Frankly, I don't care what you think of me.  I care that you are 
willing and able to follow the specified procedures, and if you can't 
(or won't) do that then you don't belong here.

>  Perhaps I am not the stumbling block here.

	I think you're stumbling over your own feet.  Maybe you want to 
take them out of your mouth once in a while.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jan 30 11:46:18 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:46:18 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] any info on this reported exploit?
In-Reply-To: <43DD83CA.4020901@yahoo.com>
References: <PC1740200601261956370671540c7a64@msapiro>
	<43D9B713.4000506@yahoo.com> <p06200750bfff9c4b9db6@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43D9F504.1070500@yahoo.com>
	<8764o576yy.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DA8592.1010304@yahoo.com>
	<8764o554qj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DB046E.9000403@yahoo.com> <p0620075cc000f100788e@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43DB8E4A.50109@yahoo.com> <p0620075fc00167f25987@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43DBC1ED.3080209@yahoo.com> <p06200760c0024b0291b0@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43DD2F3A.9050903@yahoo.com>
	<87y80yzd3m.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<43DD83CA.4020901@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06200773c00397667971@[10.0.1.210]>

At 10:11 PM -0500 2006-01-29, Jim Popovitch quoted Stephen J. Turnbull:

>>  And if three people ask on mailman-security?  There's a short post to
>>  mailman-users, and it ends up in the faq, because it's a PITA for the
>>  developers to keep answering it.
>>  What's wrong with that?
>
>  Nothing, assuming:
>
>     A) Makes it into the FAQ in a timely fashion for it to benefit site
>  admins

	Which it will do -- see Stephen's note above.

>     B) There is some means to notify site admins so that they don't
>  have to parse through mailman-users to get info on security issues.

	We've tried to be good about making important announcements to 
the mailman-announce mailing list, but I see that we haven't posted 
anything there in a few months.  I grant you that we could be better 
about making announcements.

>  I've been subscribed to mailman-announce for 5+ years.  I don't
>  recall ever seeing anything such as: "FAQ XYZ has been updated", let
>  alone info on potential vulnerabilities that I should be aware of.

	If you're asking to be notified every time there is a FAQ update, 
then you have absolutely no clue whatsoever what you're asking for -- 
you have no clue how many times in an hour that I will edit or 
re-edit the same FAQ entry, trying to get the language just right. 
You have no clue how many times per day that I will create multiple 
FAQ entries, or clean up places where people were stupid and asked 
questions in the FAQ because the FAQ frequently uses a 
question-and-answer format, and they thought that if they asked a 
question there that it would be magically answered by someone.  And 
I'm just one person.

	We could be better about making announcements to 
mailman-announce, I will grant you that.

>  And that is good.  Diana's case doesn't seem to meet that measure, yet
>  that is the advice Brad gave her.

	She was asking a question regarding the security of Mailman, and 
she should have followed the instructions in FAQ 1.27.

>                                     Was that an attempt to suppress this
>  info from other site admins?

	Is your continuous harping on this obvious nonsensical question 
an attempt to drive away all other subscribers to this mailing list?

>  And how does that apply to Diana's question?  Clearly she was inquiring
>  about a fixed issue, right?  If not, shouldn't the answer given to her
>  also be seen by others in similar situations?

	She didn't know the issue was fixed until she asked the question. 
Therefore, she should have followed proper procedure, as outlined in 
FAQ 1.27.

	When you pick up a gun, do you pull the trigger before you check 
to see whether or not it is loaded?  If so, would you allow others to 
follow that procedure when aiming those guns at your head?

>  Well it seems to there are two extremes in the Mailman group of
>  interested folks.  Those that want to know everything, but don't want
>  anyone else to know it.

	And now we see just how self-delusional you really are.  That's 
just a total load of bullshit.

	This is an open-source project.  It is our goal to share the 
software and all associated information as widely as possible.  We 
have regular jobs, and we go out of our way to volunteer time for 
this project, as opposed to doing something else with our free time. 
And this is how we get abused?


	In this case, all we ask is that if people have security-related 
questions, they should follow the proper procedures -- as outlined in 
FAQ 1.27.  In turn, we will do everything we can to get important 
version and security information out to the broadest possible user 
community.

	And we might be inclined to improve our communications to the 
community if paranoid delusional types (e.g., you) would stop 
browbeating us every five minutes for not having already fixed and 
announced all security issues within the last five minutes.

	Or will the beatings from you continue until our morale improves?

>  There is more to Mailman than just users and developers.  There are
>  those that are responsible for Mailman systems but they aren't the
>  day-to-day admins of the mailing lists.  I think it is totally
>  irresponsible to expect that site admins find out on their own if there
>  are insecurities in the sites they run.  If I am running a Mailman 2.1.6
>  site, I expect to be informed of vulnerabilities and security concerns
>  sometime before 2.1.7 is fully released, not just have to read it in the
>  CHANGES file of 2.1.7.

	So, now you're insisting that we require everyone to register a 
valid working e-mail address with us before they're allowed to 
install Mailman, just so that we can make sure that we force-feed 
them every single brainwave that Barry, Tokio, Mark, or anyone else 
ever has?


	I'm sorry, if you're running Mailman 2.1.6 and you want to be 
informed of issues regarding the software you're running, then you're 
going to have to do a little work of your own.  You're going to have 
to subscribe to the appropriate mailing lists, you're going to have 
to periodically check the FAQ (and other documentation), and you 
should also be actively participating in the community discussions.

	If you want more than that, then you can go find a commercial 
product and pay them to provide what you're looking for.

	This is an open-source project, and we have some limitations on 
our resources.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jan 30 11:46:56 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:46:56 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why are footers sent as attachments?
In-Reply-To: <874q3myunn.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <20060129192435.18F5D1E4003@bag.python.org>
	<p0620076ec0031111fd64@[10.0.1.210]>
	<874q3myunn.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06200775c0039e0e08d8@[10.0.1.210]>

At 5:41 PM +0900 2006-01-30, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>>>>>>  "Brad" == Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> writes:
>
>      Brad> 	You can't write your own HTML there, so no "click
>      Brad> here" type language is going to work.
>
>  Strictly speaking, this depends on the MUA, too.

	True.

>                                                    In the message I'm
>  replying to Gnus added no less than 16 clickable items, including
>  everything in the footer (every line except the title "Mailman-Users
>  mailing list").

	It is not unusual for MUAs to convert many of the List-* headers 
into clickable links.  IMO, that's pretty cool.

>                   It's a shame that major vendors concentrated on a
>  misfeature that allows you to write
>
>  <a href="http://www.spyware-hell.com/downloads/">
>  www.tulips.org</a> has the best selection of garden photos!
>
>  in email, instead of teaching their products to snarf URLs out of
>  text/plain.

	The ironic thing is that you're saying this to me, and that 
Eudora (my MUA) only made the URL clickable -- i.e., it did exactly 
what you are saying that vendors don't do with their MUAs.  ;)

	Of course, I have all the HTML features of Eudora turned off, and 
I neither send nor receive messages that are HTML formatted.  I still 
can't figure out a way to get it to stop converting HTML formatting 
into a rich text format which is more difficult to quote and edit, 
but at least it does give me methods of flattening rich text into 
ASCII, which can then be cut and re-pasted in a quotation format.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From Jeff.Edwards at ccci.org  Mon Jan 30 16:31:50 2006
From: Jeff.Edwards at ccci.org (Jeff Edwards)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 10:31:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Templates: Continued
Message-ID: <C0039B96.1A31%Jeff.Edwards@ccci.org>

Can anyone point me to the Python module that Pipermail uses to take
templates and render HTML message archives?

Jeff Edwards



From carbonnb at gmail.com  Mon Jan 30 16:46:41 2006
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 10:46:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Templates: Continued
In-Reply-To: <C0039B96.1A31%Jeff.Edwards@ccci.org>
References: <C0039B96.1A31%Jeff.Edwards@ccci.org>
Message-ID: <e04a6c920601300746h3147f0c5q@mail.gmail.com>

On 30/01/06, Jeff Edwards <Jeff.Edwards at ccci.org> wrote:
> Can anyone point me to the Python module that Pipermail uses to take
> templates and render HTML message archives?

$PREFIX/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jan 30 16:47:40 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 07:47:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Templates: Continued
In-Reply-To: <C0039B96.1A31%Jeff.Edwards@ccci.org>
Message-ID: <PC174020060130074740003185c4ac67@msapiro>

Jeff Edwards wrote:

>Can anyone point me to the Python module that Pipermail uses to take
>templates and render HTML message archives?

Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From cpz at tuunq.com  Mon Jan 30 17:55:52 2006
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 08:55:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why are footers sent as attachments?
In-Reply-To: <874q3myunn.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> from "Stephen J.
	Turnbull" at "Jan 30, 2006 05:41:48 pm"
Message-ID: <20060130165553.1E1E37AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> Strictly speaking, this depends on the MUA, too.  In the message I'm
> replying to Gnus added no less than 16 clickable items, including
> everything in the footer (every line except the title "Mailman-Users
> mailing list").  It's a shame that major vendors concentrated on a
> misfeature that allows you to write
> 
> <a href="http://www.spyware-hell.com/downloads/">
> www.tulips.org</a> has the best selection of garden photos!
> 
> in email, instead of teaching their products to snarf URLs out of
> text/plain.

Strange enough, some versions of lookOut will make things that look
like URLs (and UNCs) clickable even in plain-text messages. At my 
office, only about a third of the users send HTML-format email, but
for the most part lookOut does the right thing.  (Now if I could get
them to stop sending multihundred K attachments to entire exchange
server lists... not my job, though)


z!


From dellsworth at mac.com  Mon Jan 30 19:12:34 2006
From: dellsworth at mac.com (David Ellsworth)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:12:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footers showing up as attachments
Message-ID: <C003C142.6ACF%dellsworth@mac.com>

Having lots of complaints from listees that they can't unsubscribe when
those Instructions are included as a footer in every email.

Some have said (on windows computers) arrive as an attachment not in the
body of the email. 

Any ideas how that can be fixed?

Thanks

David




From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jan 30 19:19:39 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 10:19:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footers showing up as attachments
In-Reply-To: <C003C142.6ACF%dellsworth@mac.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006013010193902965606dc8f@msapiro>

David Ellsworth wrote:
>
>Some have said (on windows computers) arrive as an attachment not in the
>body of the email. 

The most recent thread on this topic on this list began just yesterday
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-January/048884.html>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dspreadbury at gmail.com  Mon Jan 30 19:25:41 2006
From: dspreadbury at gmail.com (Daniel Spreadbury)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:25:41 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie question regarding multiple domains with
	oneMailman installation
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601291642300468fd0e45f2@msapiro>
References: <e127c9e20601291602l53f258c2j@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200601291642300468fd0e45f2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <e127c9e20601301025o37f760a0n@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark,

Thanks for your very helpful reply! I think I'm getting somewhere,
though I've hit another brick wall.

> virtual
>
> will return some relevant information including FAQs 4.29. 4.47 and
> 4.62.

Thanks -- I tried searching for "virtual domains", which didn't find
the same FAQs.

> Mailman version? :-)

2.1.7, though I'm guessing from the smiley that this doesn't much matter!

> Either put the Mailman specific alias and scriptalias, etc stuff in
> each virtual host section in the web server config, or put it
> somewhere where it will apply to all hosts.
>
> Put directives like:
>
> add_virtualhost('dom.ain', 'dom.ain')
> add_virtualhost('another.domain','another.domain')
>
> in mm_cfg.py. This assumes you will access the web pages via
> http://dom.ain/..., as well as emailing mailing-list-alpha at dom.ain,
> i.e., that the web domain and the email domain are the same for the
> hosts.

Okay, I've got all this.  Two problems remain:

1. If I go to http://dom.ain.com/mailman/, I get a "you don't have
permission to view /mailman/" error. If I go to
http://dom.ain.com/mailman/admin, for example, I get the mailman
interface as I'd expect. Is there something I can do to get /mailman
to give me something sensible, or is that not how it's supposed to
work? My Apache config does a standard script alias thing:

ScriptAlias /mailman "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/"

I'm guessing I've missed something simple here.

2. This is a thornier issue, and I've spent most of the day today
trying to sort it out. My MTA is exim-4.22-1, installed via the
FreeBSD ports collection. As far as I can tell, it was installed with
the default user of mailnull and group of mail. As such, when I built
mailman from /usr/ports/mail/mailman, I used this command line:

make MAIL_GID="mail" install

as specified in /usr/local/share/doc/mailman/FreeBSD-post-install-notes

I also made sure that the aliases at the top of the Exim config file
(which I've placed just below the MAIN CONFIGURATION SETTINGS part of
the configure file) say:

MAILMAN_USER=mailnull
MAILMAN_GROUP=mail

I've also set up aliases in my domain-specific alias files for mail
delivery (I'm using Cyrus on top of Exim for IMAP), of the form:

members-list "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post members-list"
members-list-admin "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin members-list"

and so on.

When I do e.g. "exim -bt members-list-owner at dom.ain.com" I get the
expected result.

However, when I actually send mail to any of these addresses, I see
this in my main Exim log:

2006-01-30 18:09:06 1F3dSa-0001XG-RO ** members-list at dom.ain.com
<members-list-owner at dom.ain.com> R=mailman_router T=mailman_transport:
Child process of mailman_transport transport returned 2 from command:
/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman

This results in the mail being bounced back to me as undeliverable,
and nothing getting through to the mailing list.

The FreeBSD post-install notes list this problem specifically as
occurring if Mailman isn't installed with the right MAIL_GID set at
make, but I'm pretty sure I've set this correctly (see above). The
only other solution I've seen suggested is to use check_perms -f to
fix up permissions. I've done this, and no problems are found.

Any ideas as to what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks again for your help!

Daniel


From dellsworth at mac.com  Mon Jan 30 19:28:46 2006
From: dellsworth at mac.com (David Ellsworth)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:28:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footers showing up as attachments
Message-ID: <C003C50E.6AD6%dellsworth@mac.com>

Having lots of complaints from listees that they can't unsubscribe when
those Instructions are included as a footer in every email.

Some have said (on windows computers) arrive as an attachment not in the
body of the email. 

Any ideas how that can be fixed?

Thanks

David




From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jan 30 20:23:45 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:23:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie question regarding multiple domains with
	oneMailman installation
In-Reply-To: <e127c9e20601301104i3e63e2bdi@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601301123450453cb8f01d2@msapiro>

>On 30/01/06, Daniel Spreadbury <dspreadbury at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 1. If I go to http://dom.ain.com/mailman/, I get a "you don't have
>> permission to view /mailman/" error. If I go to
>> http://dom.ain.com/mailman/admin, for example, I get the mailman
>> interface as I'd expect. Is there something I can do to get /mailman
>> to give me something sensible, or is that not how it's supposed to
>> work? My Apache config does a standard script alias thing:
>>
>> ScriptAlias /mailman "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/"
>>
>> I'm guessing I've missed something simple here.

RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$ http://dom.ain.com/mailman/listinfo

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dspreadbury at gmail.com  Mon Jan 30 20:04:30 2006
From: dspreadbury at gmail.com (Daniel Spreadbury)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 19:04:30 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie question regarding multiple domains with
	oneMailman installation
In-Reply-To: <e127c9e20601301025o37f760a0n@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e127c9e20601291602l53f258c2j@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200601291642300468fd0e45f2@msapiro>
	<e127c9e20601301025o37f760a0n@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e127c9e20601301104i3e63e2bdi@mail.gmail.com>

Hi chaps,

Further to my last email a few minutes ago, I appear to have stumbled
on the answer, thanks to this post from the archives:

http://www.exim.org/pipermail/exim-users/Week-of-Mon-20030210/049748.html

Apparently my exim user is actually running in group "wheel".
Recompiling mailman yet again, this time with MAIL_GID='wheel', seems
to have sorted it.

But I'd still love some advice on the Apache part of my question,
reproduced below.

Thanks,

Daniel

On 30/01/06, Daniel Spreadbury <dspreadbury at gmail.com> wrote:
> 1. If I go to http://dom.ain.com/mailman/, I get a "you don't have
> permission to view /mailman/" error. If I go to
> http://dom.ain.com/mailman/admin, for example, I get the mailman
> interface as I'd expect. Is there something I can do to get /mailman
> to give me something sensible, or is that not how it's supposed to
> work? My Apache config does a standard script alias thing:
>
> ScriptAlias /mailman "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/"
>
> I'm guessing I've missed something simple here.


From toddaa at gmail.com  Mon Jan 30 22:23:52 2006
From: toddaa at gmail.com (Aaron Todd)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:23:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] members address in to header
Message-ID: <a03af9cc0601301323oba9b31cj8c1821e0e1528200@mail.gmail.com>

I know this has probably been posted a thousand times so I am sorry if I
annoy anyone who has been at this for years.  I am new to mailman so please
take it easy on me.

I recently had my ISP set up a list for me and due to their lack of
knowledge about mailman I have found myself searching the Internet, reading
the manuals, and now posting here for answeres to my questions.

So far I really like the system.  We have been very impressed.  One question
that has come up is:  Is there any way for the members address to be in the
TO header when they get it?  Currently when I send out an email to my list
each member sees the lists address in the TO and FROM headers.  Reply-TO was
pretty easy to take care of, but TO is what I am conserned about.  The
intention of this list is to be an announcment only list.  I really do not
want to show the lists address to the user that will be getting the
message.  I am not trying to SPAM people here...I am just trying to keep the
message to my customers as personal as I can.

If anyone could give me an answer on this or even give me something to
search on I would really appreciate it.  I've been running through
the archives, but so far come up empty.

Thanks,

toddaa


From Neilrey.Espino at FundSERV.com  Mon Jan 30 22:34:58 2006
From: Neilrey.Espino at FundSERV.com (Neilrey Espino)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:34:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Lists not getting emails from internal
	domain
Message-ID: <CBDB236C3C437A43BF5D93D66E58929A028BB41B@pegasus.fundserv.com>

Many thanks Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 10:58 PM
To: Neilrey Espino; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] New Lists not getting emails from internal
domain

Neilrey Espino wrote:

>Just realized Mark,,,,  The other lists are actually fine,,,I'm only
>having problems with the newly created list. I'm not sure if there's a
>typo on the aliases.

If mail from the internet reaches the list, then it would seem the
aliases would be OK. If not, there might be a problem with the aliases
or the new aliases may not have been installed properly for the MTA.

You could look for clues at whatever logs the MTA produces.

If old lists are fine, both locally and from the internet, and the new
list is fine from the internet but not locally, then I still think
it's an MTA issue and that the aliases for this new list must somehow
be installed incompletely or differently from the others.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jan 30 22:54:42 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:54:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] members address in to header
In-Reply-To: <a03af9cc0601301323oba9b31cj8c1821e0e1528200@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601301354420093d1a7b6a7@msapiro>

Aaron Todd wrote:

>I know this has probably been posted a thousand times so I am sorry if I
>annoy anyone who has been at this for years.  I am new to mailman so please
>take it easy on me.


Well then have you searched the archives of this list for your answers?


>Is there any way for the members address to be in the
>TO header when they get it?


It's called 'full personalization'. If the personalization options do
not appear on the Non-digest options page in the admin interface, It's
because your ISP has not set OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
in mm_cfg.py. This may or may not be a concious decision on their part.


>Currently when I send out an email to my list
>each member sees the lists address in the TO and FROM headers.  Reply-TO was
>pretty easy to take care of, but TO is what I am conserned about.  The
>intention of this list is to be an announcment only list.  I really do not
>want to show the lists address to the user that will be getting the
>message.  I am not trying to SPAM people here...I am just trying to keep the
>message to my customers as personal as I can.


See the FAQ. There's lots of good information there. In particular,
article 3.11 gives lots of detail about setting up announcement lists.

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jwblist at loricamail.com  Mon Jan 30 23:32:58 2006
From: jwblist at loricamail.com (John W. Baxter)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:32:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a workaround to this?
In-Reply-To: <20060129191818.5758C1E4003@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <C003D41A.AB4E%jwblist@loricamail.com>

On 1/29/06 11:18 AM, "Jp Possenti" <jp at pifiu.com> wrote:

> So basically there is none yet. Hopefully in the future there will be. I
> don't want to hack anything really, just don't feel comfortable enough, and
> it maybe breaking something else in the long run after an upgrade or update.
> 

The fix will come from Microsoft, when they decide to make Outlook behave
sensibly.  (It's quite possible that they view the behavior as making sense
for mail passed from one Outlook user to another via a single in-house
Exchange server (or even a nest of in-house Exchange servers.)

  --John




From ashley at pcraft.com  Mon Jan 30 23:24:03 2006
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:24:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing max_recipients
Message-ID: <43DE9203.4000409@pcraft.com>


    If I change my SMTP_MAX_RCPTS (in Defaults.py) while something is 
being sent out, is there anyway to have mailman ... uh ... recalculate 
if you will and continue sending where it was, but with the new 
max_recipient number instead of the old one?  Or am I stuck till this 
queue finishes?

-- 
W | It's not a bug - it's an undocumented feature.
  +--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  IT Director / SysAdmin / Websmith             .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.            .     3550 Arapahoe Ave. #6
  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A.




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Jan 31 00:31:03 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 00:31:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing max_recipients
In-Reply-To: <43DE9203.4000409@pcraft.com>
References: <43DE9203.4000409@pcraft.com>
Message-ID: <p06200782c00451981d8c@[10.0.1.210]>

At 3:24 PM -0700 2006-01-30, Ashley M. Kirchner wrote:

>      If I change my SMTP_MAX_RCPTS (in Defaults.py) while something is
>  being sent out, is there anyway to have mailman ... uh ... recalculate
>  if you will and continue sending where it was, but with the new
>  max_recipient number instead of the old one?  Or am I stuck till this
>  queue finishes?

	I'm not sure when that value is read during the initialization 
process, and where that may be stored afterwards.  It may be that you 
need to stop and restart Mailman to get it to pick up that change, or 
Mailman may pick up the change when the next message comes in.

	If you're really unlucky, that value will only get read from 
Defaults.py when the list is created and will then be saved 
internally to the list configuration pickle, and the value from 
Defaults.py will never be read again for that list.


	However, even in the best case, none of this is going to have any 
impact on messages that have already come in and are in the process 
of going back out again.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan 31 01:38:05 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 16:38:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing max_recipients
In-Reply-To: <43DE9203.4000409@pcraft.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601301638050859c1ae4b40@msapiro>

Ashley M. Kirchner wrote:
>
>    If I change my SMTP_MAX_RCPTS (in Defaults.py) while something is 
>being sent out, is there anyway to have mailman ... uh ... recalculate 
>if you will and continue sending where it was, but with the new 
>max_recipient number instead of the old one?  Or am I stuck till this 
>queue finishes?

Queue may not be the right term here depending on what you mean.
Outgoing runner gets a message from the out queue, calls SMTPDirect
(or whatever the delivery module is, but SMTPDirect is the default and
the only one that uses SMTP_MAX_RCPTS) once to deliver the message to
the recipients which have already been calculated, and waits for
SMTPDirect to return before getting the next message from the out
queue.

Note that a message in the out queue, is one post, admin notice or
whatever. Even if it is going to be VERPed or personalized, there is
only one message in the out queue. It's up to SMTPDirect to
personalize it if it's personalized and send it.

Now here, we're not talking VERPed or personalized messages, because
they are sent one at a time from SMTPDirect to the MTA. Only non
VERPed, non personalized messages, digests, etc. are sent in 'chunks'
with up to SMTP_MAX_RCPTS recipients.

Now, as Brad suggested, if you change SMTP_MAX_RCPTS in mm_cfg.py, the
change won't be seen until you do a 'bin/mailmanctl restart'. If you
do this in the middle of processing a message, the qrunners will
finish what they're doing before reloading. So the change won't affect
a message that is currently being delivered from SMTPDirect to the
MTA. Even if this were not the case, SMTPDirect builds the chunks of
addresses to which it's going to deliver before it begins sending and
doesn't use SMTP_MAX_RCPTS after that.

So the short answer, is no. Once a message has started being delivered
from Mailman to the MTA, you can't change the parameters for the
balance of the delivery.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan 31 03:59:09 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:59:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a workaround to this?
In-Reply-To: <C003D41A.AB4E%jwblist@loricamail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601301859090218e358e4e3@msapiro>

John W. Baxter wrote:
>
>The fix will come from Microsoft, when they decide to make Outlook behave
>sensibly.  (It's quite possible that they view the behavior as making sense
>for mail passed from one Outlook user to another via a single in-house
>Exchange server (or even a nest of in-house Exchange servers.)

I think that this behavior has to do with Microsoft's "Purported
Responsible Address" which has something to do with "Sender ID
Framework"
<http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/safety/technologies/senderid/resources.mspx>
which is/was a typical Microsoft attempt to hijack "Sender Policy
Framework" <http://www.openspf.org/>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From toddaa at gmail.com  Tue Jan 31 14:00:03 2006
From: toddaa at gmail.com (Aaron Todd)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 08:00:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] members address in to header
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601301354420093d1a7b6a7@msapiro>
References: <a03af9cc0601301323oba9b31cj8c1821e0e1528200@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200601301354420093d1a7b6a7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <a03af9cc0601310500o2028a4e9t6371a25a2c8be470@mail.gmail.com>

Mark,

Thank you very much.  I just googled OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION and
got a ton of information about exactly what you were taking about.  The FAQ
link you sent me is something that I dont think I've seen yet so I'll
proably spend a few hours there reading.

Thanks again, you've been a big help.

toddaa


On 1/30/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Aaron Todd wrote:
>
> >I know this has probably been posted a thousand times so I am sorry if I
> >annoy anyone who has been at this for years.  I am new to mailman so
> please
> >take it easy on me.
>
>
> Well then have you searched the archives of this list for your answers?
>
>
> >Is there any way for the members address to be in the
> >TO header when they get it?
>
>
> It's called 'full personalization'. If the personalization options do
> not appear on the Non-digest options page in the admin interface, It's
> because your ISP has not set OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
> in mm_cfg.py. This may or may not be a concious decision on their part.
>
>
> >Currently when I send out an email to my list
> >each member sees the lists address in the TO and FROM headers.  Reply-TO
> was
> >pretty easy to take care of, but TO is what I am conserned about.  The
> >intention of this list is to be an announcment only list.  I really do
> not
> >want to show the lists address to the user that will be getting the
> >message.  I am not trying to SPAM people here...I am just trying to keep
> the
> >message to my customers as personal as I can.
>
>
> See the FAQ. There's lots of good information there. In particular,
> article 3.11 gives lots of detail about setting up announcement lists.
>
> >Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From premeau at uwp.edu  Tue Jan 31 17:24:09 2006
From: premeau at uwp.edu (Steven Premeau)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 10:24:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Checking 'accept_these_nonmembers' before
	subscriber list?
Message-ID: <43DF8F29.6000906@uwp.edu>

At UW-Parkside, we are using mailman for (among other things) as a 
method for targeted announcements to our user base.

We have things working via the moderation flags for subscribers and 
accept_these_nonmembers.
 
However, we have just encountered the situation where one of the 
subscribers is also a 'non-member' that would be allowed to post, but 
the moderation flag is being checked first.

Is there a way to process the accept nonmember list first, then 
subscriber moderation?

Thanks,
Steve.

-- 
Steven Premeau, Network Manager      premeau at uwp.edu           (262) 595-2005
Computer and Network Services              University of Wisconsin - Parkside
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 "A car is more costly, complex, and dangerous than any word processor.  Yet
 you don't find a thousand page operating manual, nor must you check with a
 friend to learn how to close the window ..."
                                       - Cliff Stoll in "Silicon Snake Oil"




From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan 31 18:48:38 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 09:48:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Checking 'accept_these_nonmembers'
	beforesubscriber list?
In-Reply-To: <43DF8F29.6000906@uwp.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601310948380921df1ebddf@msapiro>

Steven Premeau wrote:
> 
>However, we have just encountered the situation where one of the 
>subscribers is also a 'non-member' that would be allowed to post, but 
>the moderation flag is being checked first.
>
>Is there a way to process the accept nonmember list first, then 
>subscriber moderation?

Not via any configuration option.

If this is specific to this user (or just a few), you could just set
moderation off for this user, or possibly the user could post as e.g.
user at example.com which is in accept_these_nonmembers, and subscribe to
the list as user at server.example.com.

If you're looking for a general solution that doesn't involve manual
intervention if an authorized poster subscribes to the list, other
than training the posters to subscribe with a 'different' address, I
don't think there is one.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan 31 18:53:34 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 09:53:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a workaround to this?
In-Reply-To: <43DF1BC5.5010908@equinephotoart.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060131095334028117906b5b@msapiro>

JC Dill wrote:
>
>I could be wrong, but I believe this has been the behavior of MS Outlook 
>for many years (since ~1997?), long before anyone had conceived of SPF 
>(~2003).

You are probably correct. I really don't know the full history of these
ideas. I was only trying to say that Microsoft has some commitment to
this behavior that goes beyound the design of a single product line.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mengland at mengland.net  Tue Jan 31 18:57:43 2006
From: mengland at mengland.net (Matt England)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 11:57:43 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Tips in using a list addr for another lists's owner
	address?
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20060131115412.0456f118@127.0.0.1>

I have a webmaster at lists.mydomain.com email list address that I use as the 
address of the owner of other lists at lists.mydomain.com.

This seems to work exactly as I intended (I can have a floating and/or 
group responsibility for the mydomain.com webmaster), except that I get a 
lot of messages like this sent to webmast at lists.mydomain.com:

From: mailman-bounces at lists.mydomain.com on Sun Jan 15 14:12:04 2006
Subject: svn-notify subscription notification
Cause: Message has implicit destination

...presumably due to subscribe notices from the other email lists.

I haven't investigated this yet, but I thought I'd first ask this 
group:  how can I eliminate/minimize these "Message has implicit 
destination" administrative notes?

-Matt



From clange at wisc.edu  Tue Jan 31 18:51:32 2006
From: clange at wisc.edu (Chris Lange)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 11:51:32 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing list list
Message-ID: <65672E32-3E22-46AC-9A24-15752679DF07@wisc.edu>

Hello All,

I just took over responsibility for this in my Sr. Tech's absence. I  
have several mailing lists that don't appear in the admin links  
section, but appear on the server and can be administered if I  
manually enter their location in my browser. Is there a way to  
regenerate or refresh the main list to reflect all of the lists that  
are actually on the server?

Thanks

Chris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chris Lange
IT Director
UW Medical School - Pediatrics
608.445.1711
clange at wisc.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--
The information in this message (and the documents attached to it, if  
any) is confidential and may be legally privileged.  It is intended  
solely for the addressee.  Access to this message by anyone else is  
unauthorized.  If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure,  
copying, distribution or any action taken, or omitted to be taken in  
reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have  
received this message in error, please delete all electronic copies  
of this message (and the documents attached to it, if any), destroy  
any hard copies you may have created and notify me immediately by  
replying to this email.  Thank you.




From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan 31 19:58:12 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 10:58:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Tips in using a list addr for another lists's
	owneraddress?
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20060131115412.0456f118@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601311058120343e988a503@msapiro>

Matt England wrote:

>I have a webmaster at lists.mydomain.com email list address that I use as the 
>address of the owner of other lists at lists.mydomain.com.
>
>This seems to work exactly as I intended (I can have a floating and/or 
>group responsibility for the mydomain.com webmaster), except that I get a 
>lot of messages like this sent to webmast at lists.mydomain.com:
>
>From: mailman-bounces at lists.mydomain.com on Sun Jan 15 14:12:04 2006
>Subject: svn-notify subscription notification
>Cause: Message has implicit destination

You have a couple of choices.

Go to Privacy options...->Recipient filters for the webmaster list and
either
1) set require_explicit_destination to No, or
2) add the To: addresses of these notices to acceptable_aliases.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan 31 20:22:03 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 11:22:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing list list
In-Reply-To: <65672E32-3E22-46AC-9A24-15752679DF07@wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601311122030312c44419bb@msapiro>

Chris Lange wrote:
>
>I just took over responsibility for this in my Sr. Tech's absence. I  
>have several mailing lists that don't appear in the admin links  
>section, but appear on the server and can be administered if I  
>manually enter their location in my browser. Is there a way to  
>regenerate or refresh the main list to reflect all of the lists that  
>are actually on the server?

There are two possible reasons for this.

The lists themselves are not 'advertised' (see Privacy options... in
the admin interface for the list.

The lists have a different 'host name' in their web_page_url attribute
and VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW is not set Off in mm_cfg.py.

Note that a list will or will not appear on the admin overview the same
as it will or will not appear on the listinfo overview. There is no
setting to make a list appear on the admin overview and not on the
listinfo overview or vice versa.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lists at intu.cz  Tue Jan 31 20:17:52 2006
From: lists at intu.cz (Roman Dergam)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:17:52 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Beginner's question: no virtual_alias_maps in my
	main.cf
Message-ID: <200601312017.53815.lists@intu.cz>

Hello,

I have a probably very basic question: I have been trying to setup Mailman and 
link it to Postfix. I am stuck on the fact that Postfix on my machine uses 
MySQL. 

As I went through the Documentation, I found 6.1.2 Virtual domains, where it 
is written:
_____________________________________________________________
First, you need to set up the Postfix virtual alias domains as described in 					
the Postfix documentation (see Postfix's virtual(5) manpage). Note that it's 
your responsibility to include the virtual-alias.domain anything line as 
described manpage; Mailman will not include this line in virtual-mailman. You 
are highly encouraged to make sure your virtual alias domains are working 
properly before integrating with Mailman. 

Next, add a path to Postfix's virtual_alias_maps variable, pointing to the 
virtual-mailman file, e.g.: 

    virtual_alias_maps = <your normal virtual alias files>,
        hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
_____________________________________________________________


My main.cf contains no mention of virtual_alias_maps, but has

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases
transport_maps=mysql:/etc/postfix/transport.cf
virtual_mailbox_maps=mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virt.cf
virtual_uid_maps=mysql:/etc/postfix/uids.cf
virtual_gid_maps=mysql:/etc/postfix/gids.cf
virtual_mailbox_base=/var/spool/mail/

mydestination = $mydomain, $myhostname, $transport_maps
virtual_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/virtual.cf
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Thanks for any advice.

Roman Dergam



From trichard at techovations.com  Tue Jan 31 22:13:51 2006
From: trichard at techovations.com (trichard at techovations.com)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 15:13:51 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Rejecting Spam Emails
Message-ID: <56662.199.38.51.133.1138742031.squirrel@mail.techovations.com>

I have spamassassin installed on my mail server.  I'm getting a ton of
spam sent to my mailing list which I have it being blocked unless you are
a registered user.  Is there a way to automatically reject emails with
particular works in the subject?  The spam emails I detect get :SPAM:
added to the subject.  I would like to remove these without having to
manually do it, but I still want unapproved user messages sent to me for
approval.

Any ideas,
Thanks,
Troy



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan 31 21:28:12 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 12:28:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Rejecting Spam Emails
In-Reply-To: <56662.199.38.51.133.1138742031.squirrel@mail.techovations.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601311228120875df1ebd97@msapiro>

trichard at techovations.com wrote
>Is there a way to automatically reject emails with
>particular works in the subject?


Privacy options...->Spam filters->header_filter_rules

but don't "reject" the messages, "discard" them. It is never a good
idea to respond to spam.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From imacat at mail.imacat.idv.tw  Tue Jan 31 22:50:41 2006
From: imacat at mail.imacat.idv.tw (imacat)
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 05:50:41 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission of data/bounce-events-?????.pck
Message-ID: <20060201055034.6587.IMACAT@mail.imacat.idv.tw>

Dear all,

    I was checking my system for world-writable files, and found lots of
data/bounce-events-?????.pck that are world-writable:

imacat at rinse ~ % ls -lt /var/lib/mailman/data | grep 'rw. '
-rw-rw-rw-  1 list list       0 2006-01-31 01:26 bounce-events-02258.pck
-rw-rw-rw-  1 list list    4786 2005-12-26 17:36 bounce-events-26086.pck
...
imacat at rinse ~ %

    I searched the archive and know that they can be safely deleted. 
But, is that "world-writable" intended?  I'm a little worry about it.

--
Best regards,
imacat ^_*' <imacat at mail.imacat.idv.tw>
PGP Key: http://www.imacat.idv.tw/me/pgpkey.txt

<<Woman's Voice>> News: http://www.wov.idv.tw/
Tavern IMACAT's: http://www.imacat.idv.tw/
TLUG List Manager: http://lists.linux.org.tw/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tlug
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From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jan 31 23:17:42 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:17:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission of data/bounce-events-?????.pck
In-Reply-To: <20060201055034.6587.IMACAT@mail.imacat.idv.tw>
Message-ID: <PC17402006013114174202030145d995@msapiro>

imacat wrote:
>
>    I was checking my system for world-writable files, and found lots of
>data/bounce-events-?????.pck that are world-writable:
>
>imacat at rinse ~ % ls -lt /var/lib/mailman/data | grep 'rw. '
>-rw-rw-rw-  1 list list       0 2006-01-31 01:26 bounce-events-02258.pck
>-rw-rw-rw-  1 list list    4786 2005-12-26 17:36 bounce-events-26086.pck
>=2E..
>imacat at rinse ~ %
>
>    I searched the archive and know that they can be safely deleted.
>But, is that "world-writable" intended?  I'm a little worry about it.


Under normal circumstances, the lifetime of this file is at most
REGISTER_BOUNCES_EVERY (default = 15 minutes). The old orphaned ones
will never be read by Mailman, so the exposure isn't too great. The
reading of the file is protected in a try, so I think the worst that
might happen if it got clobbered is that you'd lose a few bounce
events.

But to answer your question, what's the default umask on your system? I
think that's what controls this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From bob at bergey.net  Fri Jan 27 01:18:39 2006
From: bob at bergey.net (Bob Bergey)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 19:18:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changes in Subscription Rules Setting
Message-ID: <p06210215bfff15ea5415@[70.194.211.137]>

Somehow on all of my lists (about a dozen), the Subscription Rules 
(under Privacy Settings) were mysteriously changed from "Confirm" to 
"Confirm and Approve." What could cause that setting to change, 
seemingly on its own? There are no other unexplained changes that I 
can see.

The only thing I've done recently was use Apple's Disk Utility to 
repair permissions on my Xserve (following a brief power outage), on 
which Mailman runs. But I don't see how that would have affected a 
change like this. Any ideas?

Bob