From lists at intu.cz  Wed Feb  1 00:06:17 2006
From: lists at intu.cz (Roman Dergam)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 00:06:17 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Beginner's question: no virtual_alias_maps in
	my main.cf
In-Reply-To: <200601312017.53815.lists@intu.cz>
References: <200601312017.53815.lists@intu.cz>
Message-ID: <200602010006.17932.lists@intu.cz>

Dne ?ter? 31 leden 2006 20:17 Roman Dergam napsal(a):
> Hello,
>
> I have a probably very basic question: I have been trying to setup Mailman
> and link it to Postfix. I am stuck on the fact that Postfix on my machine
> uses MySQL.

I apologize for my panic, please disregard the previous post.

Roman


>
> As I went through the Documentation, I found 6.1.2 Virtual domains, where
> it is written:
> _____________________________________________________________
> First, you need to set up the Postfix virtual alias domains as described in
> the Postfix documentation (see Postfix's virtual(5) manpage). Note that
> it's your responsibility to include the virtual-alias.domain anything line
> as described manpage; Mailman will not include this line in
> virtual-mailman. You are highly encouraged to make sure your virtual alias
> domains are working properly before integrating with Mailman.
>
> Next, add a path to Postfix's virtual_alias_maps variable, pointing to the
> virtual-mailman file, e.g.:
>
>     virtual_alias_maps = <your normal virtual alias files>,
>         hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
> _____________________________________________________________
>
>
> My main.cf contains no mention of virtual_alias_maps, but has
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases
> transport_maps=mysql:/etc/postfix/transport.cf
> virtual_mailbox_maps=mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virt.cf
> virtual_uid_maps=mysql:/etc/postfix/uids.cf
> virtual_gid_maps=mysql:/etc/postfix/gids.cf
> virtual_mailbox_base=/var/spool/mail/
>
> mydestination = $mydomain, $myhostname, $transport_maps
> virtual_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/virtual.cf
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Thanks for any advice.
>
> Roman Dergam
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lists%40intu.cz
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Wed Feb  1 01:50:15 2006
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 18:50:15 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Full backup and restore of a mailman list
Message-ID: <20060201005015.GM6135@fmp.com>

I run a small hosting service with a number of mailman lists.  I need to
move all the lists to a new server - list config, subscribers, subscriber
options, archives, the whole ball of wax for each list.

What's be best way to do this?  I tried using config_list (-o on the source
end and -i on the receiving end) and list_members with various options but
this leaves individual members' options behind.

I note that each list has a file called config.pck associated with it in the
mutable data tree, and copying this from one server to the corresponding
location on the other _seems_ to copy pretty much everything except the list
archives.  Is this an acceptable way to do such a move?  What about moving
list archives?  How is this best done?

I've googled around on the mailman site and elsewhere but can't seem to find
a definitive HOWTO on moving lists.  I'm sure there must be one somewhere. 
If anyone knows of such documentation, please point me to it.

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Fighting against human |     PGP public key
FMP Computer Services |    creativity is like   |      available at
512-259-1190          |    trying to eradicate  | <http://pubkeys.fmp.com>
http://www.fmp.com    |        dandelions"      |
                      |      (Pamela Jones)     |


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Feb  1 02:01:17 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 02:01:17 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Full backup and restore of a mailman list
In-Reply-To: <20060201005015.GM6135@fmp.com>
References: <20060201005015.GM6135@fmp.com>
Message-ID: <p06200789c005b8c64cce@[10.0.1.210]>

At 6:50 PM -0600 2006-01-31, Lindsay Haisley wrote:

>  I've googled around on the mailman site and elsewhere but can't seem to find
>  a definitive HOWTO on moving lists.  I'm sure there must be one somewhere.

	Did you search the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py>?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb  1 02:25:58 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 17:25:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Full backup and restore of a mailman list
In-Reply-To: <20060201005015.GM6135@fmp.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200601311725580906d07a3284@msapiro>

Lindsay Haisley wrote:

>I run a small hosting service with a number of mailman lists.  I need to
>move all the lists to a new server - list config, subscribers, subscriber
>options, archives, the whole ball of wax for each list.
>
>What's be best way to do this?

This has been discussed many times on this list. See for example the
entire thread at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-October/047233.html>
which involves an upgrade from 2.0 to 2.1 as well.

Basically you're on the right track - move config.pck files and the
archives/ directory. If any domain/host names are changing see FAQ
4.29, and as Brad suggests, there's other info in the FAQ too.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Wed Feb  1 02:51:06 2006
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 19:51:06 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Full backup and restore of a mailman list
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601311725580906d07a3284@msapiro>
References: <20060201005015.GM6135@fmp.com>
	<PC1740200601311725580906d07a3284@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060201015106.GO6135@fmp.com>

Thus spake Mark Sapiro on Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 07:25:58PM CST
> Lindsay Haisley wrote:
> 
> >I run a small hosting service with a number of mailman lists.  I need to
> >move all the lists to a new server - list config, subscribers, subscriber
> >options, archives, the whole ball of wax for each list.
> >
> >What's be best way to do this?
> 
> This has been discussed many times on this list.

Yep!  So I see.  I'm sure it's a common problem.  

> See for example the
> entire thread at
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-October/047233.html>
> which involves an upgrade from 2.0 to 2.1 as well.

If I'd dug a little deeper I would probably have found the docs you
reference.  Thanks so much to both of you!!!
 
> Basically you're on the right track - move config.pck files and the
> archives/ directory. If any domain/host names are changing see FAQ
> 4.29, and as Brad suggests, there's other info in the FAQ too.

I'll check it out, but all should be well.  I'm just re-vectoring DNS for
each list and its associated website from the old server to the new.

Again, many thanks for your quick responses!  The references you cite have
everything I need to do the job.  Mailman versions are the same, so there's
no file format conversion involved.

-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Fighting against human |     PGP public key
FMP Computer Services |    creativity is like   |      available at
512-259-1190          |    trying to eradicate  | <http://pubkeys.fmp.com>
http://www.fmp.com    |        dandelions"      |
                      |      (Pamela Jones)     |


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Wed Feb  1 03:00:31 2006
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 15:00:31 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing list not obeying sender filter
Message-ID: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A3729E7F6@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

HI All,

 

I am trying to set up a mailing list for unix/linux servers to mail
into, and then out to the llinux admins.

 

I have added the postmaster at fqdn and mailer-daemon at fqdn for each server
to the privacy-option -> sender-filter -> non-member filters box and
done a submit, but the system is still asking me to moderate the
emails...while I just want them accepted and posted.

 

So this seems to be failing, what have I missed or is something broken?

 

I then tried to set,

 

"Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit
action is defined". To accept 

 

 

but it still carries on asking each post to be moderated, so I assume
something is not responding within mailman, or I have mis-set something.

 

Any suggestions?

 

Thanks

 

Steven



From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Wed Feb  1 03:10:28 2006
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:10:28 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing list not obeying sender filter
In-Reply-To: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A3729E7F6@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A3729E7F6@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <20060201021028.GQ6135@fmp.com>

Thus spake Steven Jones on Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 08:00:31PM CST
> HI All,
> 
>  
> 
> I am trying to set up a mailing list for unix/linux servers to mail
> into, and then out to the llinux admins.
> 
>  
> 
> I have added the postmaster at fqdn and mailer-daemon at fqdn for each server
> to the privacy-option -> sender-filter -> non-member filters box and
> done a submit, but the system is still asking me to moderate the
> emails...while I just want them accepted and posted.
> 
>  
> 
> So this seems to be failing, what have I missed or is something broken?

What's the envelope sender address ("rcpt to") for these messages?  Is it
perhaps an address that subscribed with the mod flag set?  It's possible to
have one address in the body "From" header and another in the envelope
sender address, and I'm not sure which takes precedence, but I believe that
if one is found among the subscribed members, and the mod flag is set for
that address, then that trumps the allowed non-members list.

I could be all wet on this, but I've seen the same problem with some of my
customers' lists from time to time and it's always something wonky like
this.
 
-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Fighting against human |     PGP public key
FMP Computer Services |    creativity is like   |      available at
512-259-1190          |    trying to eradicate  | <http://pubkeys.fmp.com>
http://www.fmp.com    |        dandelions"      |
                      |      (Pamela Jones)     |


From webmaster at nfbwis.org  Wed Feb  1 03:30:02 2006
From: webmaster at nfbwis.org (webmaster at nfbwis.org)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:30:02 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newly Installed Lists Not Working
Message-ID: <20060201023729.731441E4004@bag.python.org>

Hello,

 

I have recently setup 3 mailing lists which are using the MailMan 2.1.6
software.  All lists look like they're setup ok, but no messages sent to the
lists go out and the list does not respond to subscribe requests of any
kind.  The archives are also not working.

 

Can anyone offer assistance on this matter?

 

 

Thank You

 

 

Charles

buggs at ticon.net 



From fmouse-mailman at fmp.com  Wed Feb  1 03:41:48 2006
From: fmouse-mailman at fmp.com (Lindsay Haisley)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:41:48 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newly Installed Lists Not Working
In-Reply-To: <20060201023729.731441E4004@bag.python.org>
References: <20060201023729.731441E4004@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <20060201024148.GT6135@fmp.com>

Thus spake webmaster at nfbwis.org on Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 08:30:02PM CST
> Hello,
> 
>  
> 
> I have recently setup 3 mailing lists which are using the MailMan 2.1.6
> software.  All lists look like they're setup ok, but no messages sent to the
> lists go out and the list does not respond to subscribe requests of any
> kind.  The archives are also not working.
> 
>  
> 
> Can anyone offer assistance on this matter?

The first resort for any problems involving mail is your mail log.  Try and
find log entries for your posts to the list, and if they're there, and look
like they're successful, look for entries relating to posts from the list
server to you.
 
-- 
Lindsay Haisley       | "Fighting against human |     PGP public key
FMP Computer Services |    creativity is like   |      available at
512-259-1190          |    trying to eradicate  | <http://pubkeys.fmp.com>
http://www.fmp.com    |        dandelions"      |
                      |      (Pamela Jones)     |


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb  1 04:05:45 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 19:05:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newly Installed Lists Not Working
In-Reply-To: <20060201024148.GT6135@fmp.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060131190545053129e18dc0@msapiro>

Lindsay Haisley wrote:

>Thus spake webmaster at nfbwis.org on Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 08:30:02PM CST
> 
>> Can anyone offer assistance on this matter?
>
>The first resort for any problems involving mail is your mail log.  Try and
>find log entries for your posts to the list, and if they're there, and look
>like they're successful, look for entries relating to posts from the list
>server to you.


Also see the FAQ
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Article 3.14 in particular.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From porter_314 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  1 06:53:37 2006
From: porter_314 at yahoo.com (Porter)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 21:53:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing email content for moderated add user
Message-ID: <20060201055337.2660.qmail@web31111.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I am using mailman on an ISP hosted server via  cpanel.  Subscription to the list requires "Confirm and approve".  Is there any  way to add the subscriber's name to the email that goes to the moderator?   Example of existing email below.  It would be nice to have the name that was  entered during the subscription process along with the email  address.
 --------------
  
 Your authorization is required for a mailing list subscription  request
approval:

    For:  myaddress at domain.com
    List: Member_List at emaillist.org

At  your convenience, visit:

    http://emaillist.org/mailman/admindb/member_list_emaillist.org


to  process the request.



From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Wed Feb  1 07:29:18 2006
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 15:29:18 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing list not obeying sender filter
In-Reply-To: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A3729E7F6@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A3729E7F6@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <43E0553E.1050807@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Steven Jones wrote:
> HI All,
> 
> I have added the postmaster at fqdn and mailer-daemon at fqdn for each server
> to the privacy-option -> sender-filter -> non-member filters box and
> done a submit, but the system is still asking me to moderate the
> emails...while I just want them accepted and posted.

Check also the recipient filter.



-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/


From hala at orientplanet.com  Wed Feb  1 12:57:54 2006
From: hala at orientplanet.com (Hala Al Haddad)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 03:57:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails delaying
Message-ID: <04d501c62726$bf25bdc0$0864a8c0@Hala>

Hi,



I am using the mailman software through our web hosting  orientplanet.info which we got from Livehost.net.

Since 3  months we are suffering a problem which we didn?t know yet what is it, the server went suddenly to the high load indicator and the server staff kept all out emails on halt.

 

Since that day we were not able to use the mailing list normal as we did for more than 8 months.

 

If we are sending to 4 of our mailing list now, the server is hanging up although we have a 500 MB account. All our emails is delaying, its taking 12 hours to reach to some of the  subscribers.

 

Kindly advise.

Hala Al Haddad
Orient Planet PR & Marketing Communications
PO Box 23345, Dubai UAE
Tel: +971 4 3988901
Fax: +971 4 3988941
Email: hala at orientplanet.com
Website: www.orientplanet.com 
 


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Feb  1 13:15:56 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 13:15:56 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing email content for moderated add user
In-Reply-To: <20060201055337.2660.qmail@web31111.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060201055337.2660.qmail@web31111.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p0620078ac00656a44cee@[10.0.1.210]>

At 9:53 PM -0800 2006-01-31, Porter wrote:

>  I am using mailman on an ISP hosted server via  cpanel.  Subscription to
>  the list requires "Confirm and approve".  Is there any  way to add the
>  subscriber's name to the email that goes to the moderator?   Example of
>  existing email below.  It would be nice to have the name that was
>  entered during the subscription process along with the email  address.

	The kind of modification you're asking for would require changing 
the Mailman source code written in Python.  Since you say you're 
using an ISP hosted server with cPanel, modifying the source code is 
not an option for you.  Modifying the source may not even be an 
option for your ISP, but you could ask.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Feb  1 13:57:30 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 13:57:30 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails delaying
In-Reply-To: <04d501c62726$bf25bdc0$0864a8c0@Hala>
References: <04d501c62726$bf25bdc0$0864a8c0@Hala>
Message-ID: <p0620078ec006609ca320@[10.0.1.210]>

At 3:57 AM -0800 2006-02-01, Hala Al Haddad wrote:

>  If we are sending to 4 of our mailing list now, the server is hanging
>  up although we have a 500 MB account. All our emails is delaying, its
>  taking 12 hours to reach to some of the  subscribers.

	There are no questions here that we can help you with.  You need 
to talk to your provider.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From clovis at agr.unicamp.br  Wed Feb  1 14:16:57 2006
From: clovis at agr.unicamp.br (Clovis Tristao)
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 11:16:57 -0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission of data/bounce-events-?????.pck
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006013114174202030145d995@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006013114174202030145d995@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43E0B4C9.50108@agr.unicamp.br>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> imacat wrote:
>   
>>    I was checking my system for world-writable files, and found lots of
>> data/bounce-events-?????.pck that are world-writable:
>>
>> imacat at rinse ~ % ls -lt /var/lib/mailman/data | grep 'rw. '
>> -rw-rw-rw-  1 list list       0 2006-01-31 01:26 bounce-events-02258.pck
>> -rw-rw-rw-  1 list list    4786 2005-12-26 17:36 bounce-events-26086.pck
>> =2E..
>> imacat at rinse ~ %
>>
>>    I searched the archive and know that they can be safely deleted.
>> But, is that "world-writable" intended?  I'm a little worry about it.
>>     
>
>
> Under normal circumstances, the lifetime of this file is at most
> REGISTER_BOUNCES_EVERY (default = 15 minutes). The old orphaned ones
> will never be read by Mailman, so the exposure isn't too great. The
> reading of the file is protected in a try, so I think the worst that
> might happen if it got clobbered is that you'd lose a few bounce
> events.
>
> But to answer your question, what's the default umask on your system? I
> think that's what controls this.
>
>   
Hi,

How I make to erase these archives? I can do it?
I have archives since Novembro/2005.
Thanks a lot,
Cl?vis

-- 
Clovis Tristao - UNICAMP/Faculdade de Engenharia Agricola
Administrador de Redes - Secao de Informatica (SINFO)
E-mail: mailto:clovis at agr.unicamp.br http://www.agr.unicamp.br
Fone(0xx19) 37881031-37881038 ou FAX(55xx19) 37881005/37881010



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb  1 17:48:45 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 08:48:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting Archives - Was(Permission of
	data/bounce-events-?????.pck)
In-Reply-To: <43E0B4C9.50108@agr.unicamp.br>
Message-ID: <PC17402006020108484508282e04b189@msapiro>

Clovis Tristao wrote:
>
>How I make to erase these archives? I can do it?
>I have archives since Novembro/2005.

First - please don't hijack existing threads for unrelated posts. It
makes the archives difficult to read. Post a new message rather than a
reply.

If you don't want list archives at all, you can safely set archive to
No on your lists Archiving Options page and then delete the
archives/private/listname/ and archives/private/listname.mbox/
directories, and if your archives were public, also delete the
archives/public/listname/ and archives/public/listname.mbox/
directories.

If you want to keep only recent archives, say from the last month or
two, you can delete the unwanted stuff from the
archives/private/listname/ directory, but there will still be old
entries in the index.

A better method would be to delete old posts from the
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file and rebuild the
archives as described at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp>.

Note that if you delete old posts from the
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file and rebuild the
archives, the URLs of remaining archived messages will change. This is
only a problem if one post refers to another by URL or if someone
saves the URL for later. This is probably not important to you if you
are only archiving the last month or two.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From clovis at agr.unicamp.br  Wed Feb  1 18:31:13 2006
From: clovis at agr.unicamp.br (Clovis Tristao)
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 15:31:13 -0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting Archives - Was(Permission of
	data/bounce-events-?????.pck)
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006020108484508282e04b189@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006020108484508282e04b189@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43E0F061.9060501@agr.unicamp.br>

Hi,

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Clovis Tristao wrote:
>   
>> How I make to erase these archives? I can do it?
>> I have archives since Novembro/2005.
>>     
>
> First - please don't hijack existing threads for unrelated posts. It
> makes the archives difficult to read. Post a new message rather than a
> reply.
>
>   
Sorry

> If you don't want list archives at all, you can safely set archive to
> No on your lists Archiving Options page and then delete the
> archives/private/listname/ and archives/private/listname.mbox/
> directories, and if your archives were public, also delete the
> archives/public/listname/ and archives/public/listname.mbox/
> directories.
>
> If you want to keep only recent archives, say from the last month or
> two, you can delete the unwanted stuff from the
> archives/private/listname/ directory, but there will still be old
> entries in the index.
>
> A better method would be to delete old posts from the
> archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file and rebuild the
> archives as described at
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp>.
>
> Note that if you delete old posts from the
> archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file and rebuild the
> archives, the URLs of remaining archived messages will change. This is
> only a problem if one post refers to another by URL or if someone
> saves the URL for later. This is probably not important to you if you
> are only archiving the last month or two.
>
>   
Thanks a lot,
Cl?vis

-- 
Clovis Tristao - UNICAMP/Faculdade de Engenharia Agricola
Administrador de Redes - Secao de Informatica (SINFO)
E-mail: mailto:clovis at agr.unicamp.br http://www.agr.unicamp.br
Fone(0xx19) 37881031-37881038 ou FAX(55xx19) 37881005/37881010



From imacat at mail.imacat.idv.tw  Wed Feb  1 20:00:34 2006
From: imacat at mail.imacat.idv.tw (imacat)
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 03:00:34 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission of data/bounce-events-?????.pck
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006013114174202030145d995@msapiro>
References: <20060201055034.6587.IMACAT@mail.imacat.idv.tw>
	<PC17402006013114174202030145d995@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060202030024.3C76.IMACAT@mail.imacat.idv.tw>

On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 14:17:42 -0800
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> imacat wrote:
> >    I was checking my system for world-writable files, and found lots of
> >data/bounce-events-?????.pck that are world-writable:
> >imacat at rinse ~ % ls -lt /var/lib/mailman/data | grep 'rw. '
> >-rw-rw-rw-  1 list list       0 2006-01-31 01:26 bounce-events-02258.pck
> >-rw-rw-rw-  1 list list    4786 2005-12-26 17:36 bounce-events-26086.pck
> >=2E..
> >imacat at rinse ~ %d
> But to answer your question, what's the default umask on your system? I
> think that's what controls this.

    Frankly, I got a different test result.

    I put a line "touch /var/tmp/mailman.umask.test" to
/etc/init.d/mailman (which is copied from scripts/mailman) and reboot my
system.  Here is what I got:

imacat at rinse ~ % ls -l /var/tmp/mailman.umask.test
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 0 2006-02-02 02:41 /var/tmp/mailman.umask.test
imacat at rinse ~ % ls -l /var/lib/mailman/data/bounce-events-*.pck
-rw-rw-rw-  1 list list 0 2006-02-02 02:41 /var/lib/mailman/data/bounce-events-02211.pck
imacat at rinse ~ %

    Appreantly the umask when running /etc/init.d/mailman is 0022 but
mailman still create data/bounce-events-?????.pck as 0666.  Or the
python (mailmanctl) uses a different "system default umask", other than
its parent process /etc/init.d/mailman?

    I noted that in the source of mailman 2.1.7 there are 2 lines in
bin/mailmanctl:

line 421-422
        # Clear our file mode creation umask
        os.umask(0)

    Is this intended?  Is it the reason why data/bounce-events-?????.pck
are world-writable?

--
Best regards,
imacat ^_*' <imacat at mail.imacat.idv.tw>
PGP Key: http://www.imacat.idv.tw/me/pgpkey.txt

<<Woman's Voice>> News: http://www.wov.idv.tw/
Tavern IMACAT's: http://www.imacat.idv.tw/
TLUG List Manager: http://lists.linux.org.tw/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tlug
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From chris.a.adams at state.or.us  Wed Feb  1 21:43:14 2006
From: chris.a.adams at state.or.us (Christopher Adams)
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 12:43:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] generate web page of addresses in different format
Message-ID: <43E11D62.1010902@state.or.us>

I would like to be able to generate a list of subscribed addresses from 
the list information page. I can do this, but the address format is 
'joe.blow at wherever.com'. Currently, all 500+ lists at our site only 
give the Administrator the ability to do this. Consequently, the 
security risk of a user harvesting email addresses isn't really much of 
a possibility. Is there a way to generate the page so that it uses the 
'@' instead of 'at'.

-- 


Christopher Adams



From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Wed Feb  1 22:26:52 2006
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 10:26:52 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman giving a 500 error when trying to open the
	administartor web page for a list.
Message-ID: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A3729E8C7@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

All the other lists work fine, just this one list seem to timeout, quite
possibly due to the shear volume of mail awaiting moderation?

While trying to open this page, I can open other list admin pages
quickly without issue....

Where to start looking for why this particular list is faulting please?

Thanks

Steven




From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb  1 22:32:29 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 13:32:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] generate web page of addresses in different
	format
In-Reply-To: <43E11D62.1010902@state.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC17402006020113322909845772ced5@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:

>I would like to be able to generate a list of subscribed addresses from 
>the list information page. I can do this, but the address format is 
>'joe.blow at wherever.com'. Currently, all 500+ lists at our site only 
>give the Administrator the ability to do this. Consequently, the 
>security risk of a user harvesting email addresses isn't really much of 
>a possibility. Is there a way to generate the page so that it uses the 
>'@' instead of 'at'.

This is controled list by list by the obscure_addresses setting on the
list's Privacy options page. It affects more than just the roster
though. It also affects the users address on the users options page.
I'm not sure if there are other places.

This is not the setting for obscuring addresses in the archive. That
setting is Defaults/py/mm_cfg.py ARCHIVER_OBSCURES_EMAILADDRS.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dvhughes at mindspring.com  Wed Feb  1 22:09:50 2006
From: dvhughes at mindspring.com (Dennis Hughes)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 16:09:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] generate web page of addresses in different
	format
In-Reply-To: <43E11D62.1010902@state.or.us>
Message-ID: <000001c62773$d7129780$6500a8c0@dvh>

 How are you able to generate the subscriber list?  I have been wanting to
do that for some time.

If you get a list, it should be a simple matter to find and replace the " at
" with "@".  Ctrl H in Word.

Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+dvhughes=mindspring.com at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+dvhughes=mindspring.com at python.org] On Behalf
Of Christopher Adams
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 3:43 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] generate web page of addresses in different format

I would like to be able to generate a list of subscribed addresses from the
list information page. I can do this, but the address format is 'joe.blow at
wherever.com'. Currently, all 500+ lists at our site only give the
Administrator the ability to do this. Consequently, the security risk of a
user harvesting email addresses isn't really much of a possibility. Is there
a way to generate the page so that it uses the '@' instead of 'at'.

-- 


Christopher Adams

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dvhughes%40mindspring.c
om

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp




From paul.williams at uwex.edu  Wed Feb  1 22:43:42 2006
From: paul.williams at uwex.edu (Paul Williams)
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 15:43:42 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to manage archives
Message-ID: <43E12B8E.8000900@uwex.edu>

We have about 500 lists and the archives keep growing.
We are now over 12 Gigs and are rapidly running out of
space.

How does one go about trimming back on the older archives.

Here is what I have been doing with a list with the name test
but just realized my logic was flawed.

I have a script that each month gzips the 
./test.mbox/test.mbox file and it keeps 
5 copies of the most recent months (it discards the oldest).

But the files in ./test do not get truncated.

Is there a way to tell it to retain only a certain number
of months?

Thanks,

paulw


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb  1 22:52:31 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 13:52:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman giving a 500 error when trying to open
	theadministartor web page for a list.
In-Reply-To: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A3729E8C7@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <PC17402006020113523100934e04cb5c@msapiro>

Steven Jones wrote:

>All the other lists work fine, just this one list seem to timeout, quite
>possibly due to the shear volume of mail awaiting moderation?


Do you know there is a huge volume of mail waiting moderation for this
list? If there is, it seems a possible cause.

You could look at the data/heldmsg-listname-nnnn.pck files with
bin/dumpdb and delete what you don't want with bin/discard (the clean
way to do it) or you could just make a list of all the
data/heldmsg-listname-nnnn.pck files older than a couple of days and
feed that to bin/discard.

Another thing you could try is just bin/dumpdb on the
lists/listname/request.pck file to be sure it can be read.


>While trying to open this page, I can open other list admin pages
>quickly without issue....


So your web server isn't choking waiting for this one Cgi to respond.


>Where to start looking for why this particular list is faulting please?


In addition to the above, there may be clues in Mailman's error log or
the web server logs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb  1 23:01:30 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 14:01:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] generate web page of addresses in
	differentformat
In-Reply-To: <000001c62773$d7129780$6500a8c0@dvh>
Message-ID: <PC17402006020114013005154e04cd01@msapiro>

Dennis Hughes wrote:

> How are you able to generate the subscriber list?  I have been wanting to
>do that for some time.


The OP was talking about the roster accessable directly at e.g.
http://www.example.com/mailman/roster/listname or from the list's
listinfo page.

There are lots of posts in the archives of this list discussing how to
get member lists. See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-January/048484.html>
for a recent example.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb  1 23:13:25 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 14:13:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission of data/bounce-events-?????.pck
In-Reply-To: <20060202030024.3C76.IMACAT@mail.imacat.idv.tw>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602011413250750edbcbe87@msapiro>

imacat wrote:
>
>    I noted that in the source of mailman 2.1.7 there are 2 lines in
>bin/mailmanctl:
>
>line 421-422
>        # Clear our file mode creation umask
>        os.umask(0)
>
>    Is this intended?  Is it the reason why data/bounce-events-?????.pck
>are world-writable?

It looks like you're right. I don't know if there is/was a good reason
or not. I'm cross posting this reply to Mailman-Developers. Maybe
someone there knows the reason for this.

Note that many places in the Mailman code, umask is saved and set for a
particular purpose and then restored, but BounceRunner doesn't do this
when creating the bounce-events-*.pck. I don't know why.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Wed Feb  1 23:16:00 2006
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 11:16:00 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman giving a 500 error when trying to open
	theadministartor web page for a list.
Message-ID: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A3729E8E5@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

This is the message,

Internal Server Error
The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was
unable to complete your request.

Please contact the server administrator, its-unix at xxx.ac.nz and inform
them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done
that may have caused the error.

More information about this error may be available in the server error
log.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------

Apache/2.0.46 (Red Hat) Server at lists.xxx.ac.nz Port 80

I will look at these suggestions, thanks.

It is most likely there are several hundred messages awaiting
moderation.

I will start there.

Regards

Steven

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 2 February 2006 10:53 a.m.
To: Steven Jones; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman giving a 500 error when trying to
open theadministartor web page for a list.

Steven Jones wrote:

>All the other lists work fine, just this one list seem to timeout,
quite
>possibly due to the shear volume of mail awaiting moderation?


Do you know there is a huge volume of mail waiting moderation for this
list? If there is, it seems a possible cause.

You could look at the data/heldmsg-listname-nnnn.pck files with
bin/dumpdb and delete what you don't want with bin/discard (the clean
way to do it) or you could just make a list of all the
data/heldmsg-listname-nnnn.pck files older than a couple of days and
feed that to bin/discard.

Another thing you could try is just bin/dumpdb on the
lists/listname/request.pck file to be sure it can be read.


>While trying to open this page, I can open other list admin pages
>quickly without issue....


So your web server isn't choking waiting for this one Cgi to respond.


>Where to start looking for why this particular list is faulting please?


In addition to the above, there may be clues in Mailman's error log or
the web server logs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Wed Feb  1 23:44:00 2006
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 11:44:00 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman giving a 500 error when trying to open
	theadministartor web page for a list.
Message-ID: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A3729E8F3@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>



-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 2 February 2006 10:53 a.m.
To: Steven Jones; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman giving a 500 error when trying to
open theadministartor web page for a list.

Steven Jones wrote:

>All the other lists work fine, just this one list seem to timeout,
quite
>possibly due to the shear volume of mail awaiting moderation?


Do you know there is a huge volume of mail waiting moderation for this
list? If there is, it seems a possible cause.

You could look at the data/heldmsg-listname-nnnn.pck files 

========

No such files under /var/mailman/data/ Doing a find under /var/mailman/
reveals none....

========

with
bin/dumpdb and delete what you don't want with bin/discard (the clean
way to do it) or you could just make a list of all the
data/heldmsg-listname-nnnn.pck files older than a couple of days and
feed that to bin/discard.

Another thing you could try is just bin/dumpdb on the
lists/listname/request.pck file to be sure it can be read.

========
Looks like it can be read.

[root at vuwunicosmtp004 bin]# ls -l ../lists/mailerdaemon/request.pck
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman        20 Feb  2 08:15
../lists/mailerdaemon/request.pck
[root at vuwunicosmtp004 bin]# ./dumpdb -n
../lists/mailerdaemon/request.pck
[----- start pickle file -----]
<----- start object 1 ----->
{'version': (0, 1)}
[----- end pickle file -----]
>While trying to open this page, I can open other list admin pages
>quickly without issue....
========

So your web server isn't choking waiting for this one Cgi to respond.

========

Doesn't look like it, one CPU (of four) seems totally utilised...but
that leaves me 3.

>Where to start looking for why this particular list is faulting please?

In addition to the above, there may be clues in Mailman's error log or
the web server logs.

=========

I get this from the mailman error log,

[root at vuwunicosmtp004 bin]# more /var/log/mailman/error
Feb 01 13:05:33 2006 (16068) Uncaught runner exception: No terminating
boundary and no trailing empty line
Feb 01 13:05:33 2006 (16068) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop
    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 151, in dequeue
    msg = email.message_from_string(msg, Message.Message)
  File
"/usr/src/build/526417-x86_64/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init
__.py", line 52, in message_from_string
  File
"/usr/src/build/526417-x86_64/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser
.py", line 75, in parsestr
  File
"/usr/src/build/526417-x86_64/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser
.py", line 64, in parse
  File
"/usr/src/build/526417-x86_64/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser
.py", line 240, in _parsebody
  File
"/usr/src/build/526417-x86_64/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser
.py", line 75, in parsestr
  File
"/usr/src/build/526417-x86_64/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser
.py", line 64, in parse
  File
"/usr/src/build/526417-x86_64/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser
.py", line 265, in _parsebody
  File
"/usr/src/build/526417-x86_64/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser
.py", line 64, in parse
  File
"/usr/src/build/526417-x86_64/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser
.py", line 240, in _parsebody
  File
"/usr/src/build/526417-x86_64/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser
.py", line 75, in parsestr
  File
"/usr/src/build/526417-x86_64/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser
.py", line 64, in parse
  File
"/usr/src/build/526417-x86_64/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser
.py", line 265, in _parsebody
  File
"/usr/src/build/526417-x86_64/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser
.py", line 64, in parse
  File
"/usr/src/build/526417-x86_64/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser
.py", line 206, in _parsebody
BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and no trailing empty line

=========

And I get this from the httpd log,

[Thu Feb 02 09:33:34 2006] [error] [client 130.195.20.33] Premature end
of script headers: admindb
[Thu Feb 02 09:34:12 2006] [error] [client 130.195.20.33] Premature end
of script headers: admindb
[Thu Feb 02 09:35:38 2006] [error] [client 130.195.20.33] Premature end
of script headers: admin, referer: http://lists.vuw.ac.nz/mailman/admin
[Thu Feb 02 10:28:13 2006] [error] [client 130.195.20.33] Premature end
of script headers: admin, referer: http://lists.vuw.ac.nz/mailman/admin
[Thu Feb 02 10:36:14 2006] [error] [client 130.195.20.33] Premature end
of script headers: admin, referer: http://lists.vuw.ac.nz/mailman/admin
[Thu Feb 02 10:40:36 2006] [error] [client 130.195.62.121] Directory
index forbidden by rule: /var/www/html/

==========

Is this a bug or a config error on my part?

Regards

Steven



-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb  1 23:49:17 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 14:49:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to manage archives
In-Reply-To: <43E12B8E.8000900@uwex.edu>
Message-ID: <PC174020060201144917093759541bfa@msapiro>

Paul Williams wrote:
>
>How does one go about trimming back on the older archives.
>
>Here is what I have been doing with a list with the name test
>but just realized my logic was flawed.
>
>I have a script that each month gzips the 
>./test.mbox/test.mbox file and it keeps 
>5 copies of the most recent months (it discards the oldest).
>
>But the files in ./test do not get truncated.
>
>Is there a way to tell it to retain only a certain number
>of months?

Add the following (pseudo) commands to your script.

zcat (the gziped .mbox files) > some/temp/file
bin/arch --wipe listname some/temp/file
rm some/temp/file

This will rebuild the archives using only the posts from the saved,
gziped .mbox files.

There are issues remaining. As I mentioned in another post just today,
this renumbers the archive messages and changes their URLs. This may
or may not be important to you. See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-February/048966.html>
and the FAQ it refers to.

There may be issues with scrubbed attachments hanging around. You can
address this by adding

rm -r archives/private/listname/attachments/*

to the script before the bin/arch rebuild, but this will most likely
invalidate any links to scrubbed attachments in old digests (and
messages if you scrub messages) that people may have saved.

The links in the rebuilt archives will be OK.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From chris.a.adams at state.or.us  Thu Feb  2 00:07:16 2006
From: chris.a.adams at state.or.us (Christopher Adams)
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 15:07:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] generate web page of addresses in
	differentformat
In-Reply-To: <000001c62773$d7129780$6500a8c0@dvh>
References: <000001c62773$d7129780$6500a8c0@dvh>
Message-ID: <43E13F24.2030901@state.or.us>

Dennis,

All my lists are set up so that only the list owner can see the list of 
subscribers. In order to get the list, the list owner goes to the list 
info page, as if they were a user, and enters the admin email address 
and list password to get the entire list of subscribers.


Christopher Adams
Library Systems Analyst
Oregon State Library
503-378-5031
503-932-1004 (general support line)
chris.a.adams at state.or.us


Dennis Hughes wrote:
>  How are you able to generate the subscriber list?  I have been wanting to
> do that for some time.
> 
> If you get a list, it should be a simple matter to find and replace the " at
> " with "@".  Ctrl H in Word.
> 
> Dennis
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+dvhughes=mindspring.com at python.org
> [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+dvhughes=mindspring.com at python.org] On Behalf
> Of Christopher Adams
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 3:43 PM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] generate web page of addresses in different format
> 
> I would like to be able to generate a list of subscribed addresses from the
> list information page. I can do this, but the address format is 'joe.blow at
> wherever.com'. Currently, all 500+ lists at our site only give the
> Administrator the ability to do this. Consequently, the security risk of a
> user harvesting email addresses isn't really much of a possibility. Is there
> a way to generate the page so that it uses the '@' instead of 'at'.
> 



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb  2 00:22:44 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 15:22:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman giving a 500 error when trying to
	opentheadministartor web page for a list.
In-Reply-To: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A3729E8F3@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602011522440625e64e82bd@msapiro>

Steven Jones wrote:
>
>No such files under /var/mailman/data/ Doing a find under /var/mailman/
>reveals none....


Then there aren't any held messages waiting moderation.


>Another thing you could try is just bin/dumpdb on the
>lists/listname/request.pck file to be sure it can be read.
>
>========
>Looks like it can be read.
>
>[root at vuwunicosmtp004 bin]# ls -l ../lists/mailerdaemon/request.pck
>-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman        20 Feb  2 08:15
>../lists/mailerdaemon/request.pck
>[root at vuwunicosmtp004 bin]# ./dumpdb -n
>../lists/mailerdaemon/request.pck
>[----- start pickle file -----]
><----- start object 1 ----->
>{'version': (0, 1)}
>[----- end pickle file -----]


This confirms it. There aren't any requests in request.pck



>I get this from the mailman error log,
>
>[root at vuwunicosmtp004 bin]# more /var/log/mailman/error
>Feb 01 13:05:33 2006 (16068) Uncaught runner exception: No terminating
>boundary and no trailing empty line
>Feb 01 13:05:33 2006 (16068) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop
>    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 151, in dequeue
>    msg = email.message_from_string(msg, Message.Message)
>  File
>"/usr/src/build/526417-x86_64/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init
>__.py", line 52, in message_from_string
>  File
>"/usr/src/build/526417-x86_64/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser
>.py", line 75, in parsestr
>  File
>"/usr/src/build/526417-x86_64/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser
>.py", line 64, in parse
>  File
>"/usr/src/build/526417-x86_64/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser
>.py", line 240, in _parsebody
>  File
>"/usr/src/build/526417-x86_64/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser
>.py", line 75, in parsestr
>  File
>"/usr/src/build/526417-x86_64/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser
>.py", line 64, in parse
>  File
>"/usr/src/build/526417-x86_64/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser
>.py", line 265, in _parsebody
>  File
>"/usr/src/build/526417-x86_64/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser
>.py", line 64, in parse
>  File
>"/usr/src/build/526417-x86_64/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser
>.py", line 240, in _parsebody
>  File
>"/usr/src/build/526417-x86_64/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser
>.py", line 75, in parsestr
>  File
>"/usr/src/build/526417-x86_64/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser
>.py", line 64, in parse
>  File
>"/usr/src/build/526417-x86_64/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser
>.py", line 265, in _parsebody
>  File
>"/usr/src/build/526417-x86_64/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser
>.py", line 64, in parse
>  File
>"/usr/src/build/526417-x86_64/install/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser
>.py", line 206, in _parsebody
>BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and no trailing empty line


There is a malformed, unparseable MIME format message (probably spam)
in the 'in' queue (I'm assuming the 'in' queue, because normally only
the 'in' queue contains unparsed messages). This is wierd though
because BoundaryError is a subclass of MessageParseError which should
be caught in runner and logged in the error log as "Ignoring
unparseable message: filename"



>=========
>
>And I get this from the httpd log,
>
>[Thu Feb 02 09:33:34 2006] [error] [client 130.195.20.33] Premature end
>of script headers: admindb
>[Thu Feb 02 09:34:12 2006] [error] [client 130.195.20.33] Premature end
>of script headers: admindb
>[Thu Feb 02 09:35:38 2006] [error] [client 130.195.20.33] Premature end
>of script headers: admin, referer: http://lists.vuw.ac.nz/mailman/admin
>[Thu Feb 02 10:28:13 2006] [error] [client 130.195.20.33] Premature end
>of script headers: admin, referer: http://lists.vuw.ac.nz/mailman/admin
>[Thu Feb 02 10:36:14 2006] [error] [client 130.195.20.33] Premature end
>of script headers: admin, referer: http://lists.vuw.ac.nz/mailman/admin
>[Thu Feb 02 10:40:36 2006] [error] [client 130.195.62.121] Directory
>index forbidden by rule: /var/www/html/


These say the script ended without producing output. Maybe because the
list is locked looping on the above error or ? But there seems to be
only one such error in the error log, so I don't know what's going on.

Perhaps the above left the list locked. Look in mailman's locks/
directory for files with names mailerdaemon.lock* that were created
around Feb 01 13:05:33 2006. If there are two, one named
'mailerdaemon.lock' and one with name beginning with
'mailerdaemon.lock', it's probably safe to remove them. Also, you
might check Mailman's 'locks' log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb  2 00:34:32 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 15:34:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] generate web page of addresses indifferentformat
In-Reply-To: <43E13F24.2030901@state.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC174020060201153432089051e5e07a@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:
>
>In order to get the list, the list owner goes to the list 
>info page, as if they were a user, and enters the admin email address 
>and list password to get the entire list of subscribers.

Entering the owner email address in this case is superfluous. as long
as you enter the list admin (or site) password as the password, you
can enter anything or nothing at all as the email address. (I know it
says "Enter your admin address and password", but this is just an
artifact of the way the form is built).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From zorzin at anc.net  Thu Feb  2 04:43:34 2006
From: zorzin at anc.net (Matt Zorzin)
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 21:43:34 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman replacing subject text with odd characters
	and tabs
In-Reply-To: <43E12B8E.8000900@uwex.edu>
References: <43E12B8E.8000900@uwex.edu>
Message-ID: <43E17FE6.6000206@anc.net>

My company runs several mailman lists for internal usage, which we have 
been happy with for years. Recently after an upgrade, our system has 
started behaving strangely.

We have an automated ticket system that occasionally sends out email to 
the lists. This has always worked fine in the past. Lately, it is 
starting to replace spaces in the subject header with odd characters and 
newlines....but only on two of the four lists.

An example: This is a copy/paste of an affected message's header.

Subject: [XXX-List] XXXXX-XXXXX: unit not eligable for warranty
	despite being purchased as new

You'll notice the newline after 'warranty'.

Also, most of the spaces in these subjects are being replaced by 
characters unprintable in Outlook Express or Mozilla; we get little 
black squares in between each word, which indicates some sort of 
character set error.

Only two of our four lists are doing this, and we have checked character 
encodings on all the pages we can find. I have verified with our 
sysadmin that the mailman and internal ticket system lists are set to 
the exact same character set. We see no differences in the 
configurations between the functional and bugged lists.

Does anybody have any suggestions on a course of action to take? I can 
provide more information as it's needed, but I'm kind of inexperienced 
at this and have been tasked with figuring out what's up with our system.




From zorzin at anc.net  Thu Feb  2 04:51:06 2006
From: zorzin at anc.net (Matt Zorzin)
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 21:51:06 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issues with replaced characters/newlines in mailman
	lists
Message-ID: <43E181AA.1060409@anc.net>

My company runs several mailman lists for internal usage, which we have 
been happy with for years. Recently after an upgrade, our system has 
started behaving strangely.

We have an automated ticket system that occasionally sends out email to 
the lists. This has always worked fine in the past. Lately, it is 
starting to replace spaces in the subject header with odd characters and 
newlines....but only on two of the four lists.

An example: This is a copy/paste of an affected message's header.

Subject: [XXX-List] XXXXX-XXXXX: unit not eligible for warranty
	despite being purchased as new

You'll notice the newline after 'warranty'.

Also, most of the spaces in these subjects are being replaced by 
characters unprintable in Outlook Express or Mozilla; we get little 
black squares in between each word, which indicates some sort of 
character set error.

Only two of our four lists are doing this, and we have checked character 
encodings on all the pages we can find. I have verified with our 
sysadmin that the mailman and internal ticket system lists are set to 
the exact same character set. We see no differences in the 
configurations between the functional and bugged lists.

Does anybody have any suggestions on a course of action to take? I can 
provide more information as it's needed, but I'm kind of inexperienced 
at this and have been tasked with figuring out what's up with our system.

Thanks,
Matt



From tsciortino at gmail.com  Thu Feb  2 06:12:22 2006
From: tsciortino at gmail.com (Tony Sciortino)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 00:12:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Include full name or description to the From address
Message-ID: <7dc572f0602012112n42830baeoc78c0015e36cfd94@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a way to add a full name or the mail list description to the from
adress.

Instead of seeing

From: mylist at mydomain.com

You would see

From: My List [mailto:mylist at mydomain.com]


From ldb at freestandards.org  Thu Feb  2 14:38:46 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 08:38:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200601281452340375dee6b159@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200601281452340375dee6b159@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43E20B66.6010402@freestandards.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>> username at domain.org is the subscribed address.
>>
>>
>> The headers are as follows:
>>
>>
>> From username at domain.org  Fri Jan 27 19:25:04 2006
>> Return-Path: <username at domain.org>
>> X-Original-To: listname at lists.domain.org
>> Delivered-To: listname at lists.domain.org
>> Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])
>>         by lists.domain.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 990FD6780B0
>>         for <listname at lists.domain.org>;
>>         Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:25:04 -0800 (PST)
>> Received: from lists.domain.org ([127.0.0.1])
>>         by localhost (lists.domain.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new,
>>         port 10024) with ESMTP id 11514-08
>>         for <listname at lists.domain.org>;
>>         Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:25:04 -0800 (PST)
>> Received: by lists.domain.org (Postfix, from userid 1005)
>>         id 51999678112; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:25:04 -0800 (PST)
>> Received: from mail.domain.org (mail.domain.org [216.93.165.132])
>>         (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))
>>         (No client certificate requested)
>>         by lists.domain.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 395866780A9
>>         for <listname at lists.domain.org>;
>>         Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:25:03 -0800 (PST)
>> Received: by mail.domain.org (Postfix)
>>         id 1D7E0128004; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:25:03 -0800 (PST)
>> Delivered-To: listname at domain.org
>> Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])
>>         by mail.domain.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F527850439
>>         for <listname at domain.org>;
>>         Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:25:03 -0800 (PST)
>> Received: from mail.domain.org ([127.0.0.1])
>>         by localhost (mail.domain.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new,
>>         port 10024)
>>         with ESMTP id 11298-09 for <listname at domain.org>;
>>         Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:25:02 -0800 (PST)
>> Received: by mail.domain.org (Postfix, from userid 1005)
>>         id ED9CE850E5C; Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:25:02 -0800 (PST)
>> Received: from base2.domain.org (gforge.domain.org
>>         [207.235.77.148])
>>         by mail.domain.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EA40850439
>>         for <listname at domain.org>;
>>         Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:25:01 -0800 (PST)
>> Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=base2.domain.org)
>>         by hostname.domain.org with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian))
>>         id 1F2ghw-0001Qk-00 for <listname at domain.org>;
>>         Fri, 27 Jan 2006 22:25:00 -0500
>> From: User Name <username at domain.org>
>> To: listname at domain.org
> 
> It certainly looks as though that should have been accepted.
> 
> What is in Mailman's 'vette' log for this post? If that doesn't provide
> the answer, I would try the following:
> 
> In Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py, find the following:
> 
> ----------------------------------------
>     else:
>         sender = msg.get_sender()
>     # From here on out, we're dealing with non-members.
> ----------------------------------------
> 
> Change the this to:
> 
> ----------------------------------------
>     else:
>         sender = msg.get_sender()
>     # From here on out, we're dealing with non-members.
>     syslog('vette',
>            'Non member post. get_senders() = %s get_sender() = %s',
>            str(msg.get_senders()), sender)
> -----------------------------------------
> 
> This will create an entry in the 'vette' log (preceding the normal held
> post entry) for every non-member post. which in addition to the
> 'sender' from get_sender() also contains the list of senders from
> get_senders(). It is this list that is validated for membership. The
> post is considered from a list member if any of the get_senders()
> addresses is a list member.
> 

I have not tried the above but it is asking for confirmation because the posts 
are from legitimate automatic engines that send email. The list does not know 
how to distinguish between SPAM and a legitimate automatic post.

Any ideas on resolving this dilemma?

Thanks,

LDB


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb  2 20:12:17 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 11:12:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Include full name or description to the From
	address
In-Reply-To: <7dc572f0602012112n42830baeoc78c0015e36cfd94@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602021112170125d7e1f86e@msapiro>

Tony Sciortino wrote:

>Is there a way to add a full name or the mail list description to the from
>adress.
>
>Instead of seeing
>
>From: mylist at mydomain.com
>
>You would see
>
>From: My List [mailto:mylist at mydomain.com]


I'm assuming this is an anonymous list (anonymous_list = Yes) so the
From: is replaced with the list address.

If this is the case and the list has a description (A terse phrase
identifying this list.) , e.g. My List, the from will look like

From: My List <mylist at mydomain.com>

in recent versions of Mailman (2.1.6 and above).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb  2 20:26:44 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 11:26:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <43E20B66.6010402@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602021126440218aa632f26@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie 
>
>I have not tried the above but it is asking for confirmation because the posts 
>are from legitimate automatic engines that send email. The list does not know 
>how to distinguish between SPAM and a legitimate automatic post.
>
>Any ideas on resolving this dilemma?


Posts which are held because of being from a non-member are only held
based on the calculated 'sender' of the message which in turn is based
on only a few message headers which all looked OK in your sample
message.

I can understand your reluctance to patch the code, but at least look
in the 'vette' log and see what the entry there reports as the sender
of the held post.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From napstertash at gmail.com  Thu Feb  2 21:21:44 2006
From: napstertash at gmail.com (Ronnie Napster Tash)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 13:21:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Creatng a new list
Message-ID: <686aeb1e0602021221p52d8109bnd49d6120c8ca672a@mail.gmail.com>

Hi am geting this error when am creating a   new mailing lists.

Bug in Mailman version 2.1.7 We're sorry, we hit a bug!

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but
the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.
Any body with the idea??



--
&   Ronnie Tash says,
there's a method to my madness, its called being insane
Everything can be achieved as long you can do what it takes to achieve it!
----------------------------------------------

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb  2 21:42:12 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 12:42:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Creatng a new list
In-Reply-To: <686aeb1e0602021221p52d8109bnd49d6120c8ca672a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602021242120171363f96b7@msapiro>

Ronnie Napster Tash wrote:

>Hi am geting this error when am creating a   new mailing lists.
>
>Bug in Mailman version 2.1.7 We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
>Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
>traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but
>the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.
>Any body with the idea??

Look in mailman's 'error' log and find the full description and
traceback for this error, and if that doesn't tell you what the
problem is, post it here for advice.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From post-mailman-users at partan.com  Thu Feb  2 21:43:52 2006
From: post-mailman-users at partan.com (Andrew Partan)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 15:43:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Creatng a new list
In-Reply-To: <686aeb1e0602021221p52d8109bnd49d6120c8ca672a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <686aeb1e0602021221p52d8109bnd49d6120c8ca672a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060202204352.GA48536@partan.com>

On Thu, Feb 02, 2006 at 01:21:44PM -0700, Ronnie Napster Tash wrote:
> Hi am geting this error when am creating a   new mailing lists.
> 
> Bug in Mailman version 2.1.7 We're sorry, we hit a bug!

I ran into this too; run check_perms & see if there is a new directory
that was created with the wrong permissions.  Fix the permissions
(check_perms -f) and try to create the list again.
	--asp


From tsciortino at gmail.com  Thu Feb  2 23:13:21 2006
From: tsciortino at gmail.com (Tony Sciortino)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 17:13:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Include full name or description to the From
	address
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602021112170125d7e1f86e@msapiro>
References: <7dc572f0602012112n42830baeoc78c0015e36cfd94@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200602021112170125d7e1f86e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <7dc572f0602021413s3935aa0eu8dd271f0a0ec3d7e@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you.

I am running at 2.1.5 and do not have this behavior. It is running as
anonymous but because of the Outlook crazyness I had to make a change to
SMTPDirect.py. Maybe that is why things are not working as expected.

At least I have something to look at.

On 2/2/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Tony Sciortino wrote:
>
> >Is there a way to add a full name or the mail list description to the
> from
> >adress.
> >
> >Instead of seeing
> >
> >From: mylist at mydomain.com
> >
> >You would see
> >
> >From: My List [mailto:mylist at mydomain.com]
>
>
> I'm assuming this is an anonymous list (anonymous_list = Yes) so the
> From: is replaced with the list address.
>
> If this is the case and the list has a description (A terse phrase
> identifying this list.) , e.g. My List, the from will look like
>
> From: My List <mylist at mydomain.com>
>
> in recent versions of Mailman (2.1.6 and above).
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb  2 23:41:32 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 14:41:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Include full name or description to the From
	address
In-Reply-To: <7dc572f0602021413s3935aa0eu8dd271f0a0ec3d7e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060202144132079612972efc@msapiro>

Tony Sciortino wrote:
>
>I am running at 2.1.5 and do not have this behavior. It is running as
>anonymous but because of the Outlook crazyness I had to make a change to
>SMTPDirect.py. Maybe that is why things are not working as expected.


It is working as expected for Mailman 2.1.5. Adding 'description' to
the From: header was first implemented in 2.1.6.

>At least I have something to look at.


See
<http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Cleanse.py?r1=2.5.2.1&r2=2.5.2.2>
for the implementation.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From alan at chandlerfamily.org.uk  Thu Feb  2 23:42:56 2006
From: alan at chandlerfamily.org.uk (Alan Chandler)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 22:42:56 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie struggling with add_virtualhosts
Message-ID: <200602022242.56293.alan@chandlerfamily.org.uk>

I want to achieve a situation in which some mailing lists are only visible 
from my external web site, where as others are only visible on my "within 
home" lan

Also, I can appear to be going to an internal web site by creating a port 
forwarded ssh tunnel from localhost:80 to one of my internal web sites port 
80.

Therefore, for a single e-mail domain (mail.home) I want to map several web 
server synonyms to it (www.home, mail.home, roo.home and localhost).

Similarly for my external web site (at www.chandlerfamily.org.uk).

I thought the directives below would achieve this, they don't seem to - in 
particular I get different mailing lists anounced when I visit roo.home and 
mail.home (ie on theri listinfo address).

Its just possible that one of the mailing lists was created by mistake with 
roo.home as its e-mail domain. Could that be the cause of the problem?


DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'chandlerfamily.org.uk'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.chandlerfamily.org.uk'

#add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST,DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) This should already be 
set
#Following map internal mail lists to several potential host names
add_virtualhost('mail.home', 'mail.home')
add_virtualhost('www.home','mail.home')
add_virtualhost('roo.home','mail.home')
#Following done so virtual connection via ssh also works
add_virtualhost('localhost','mail.home')

-- 
Alan Chandler
http://www.chandlerfamily.org.uk
Open Source. It's the difference between trust and antitrust.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb  3 00:45:46 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 15:45:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie struggling with add_virtualhosts
In-Reply-To: <200602022242.56293.alan@chandlerfamily.org.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602021545460531a6288fc1@msapiro>

Alan Chandler wrote:

>I want to achieve a situation in which some mailing lists are only visible 
>from my external web site, where as others are only visible on my "within 
>home" lan
>
>Also, I can appear to be going to an internal web site by creating a port 
>forwarded ssh tunnel from localhost:80 to one of my internal web sites port 
>80.
>
>Therefore, for a single e-mail domain (mail.home) I want to map several web 
>server synonyms to it (www.home, mail.home, roo.home and localhost).
>
>Similarly for my external web site (at www.chandlerfamily.org.uk).
>
>I thought the directives below would achieve this, they don't seem to - in 
>particular I get different mailing lists anounced when I visit roo.home and 
>mail.home (ie on theri listinfo address).


That's right. See below.


>Its just possible that one of the mailing lists was created by mistake with 
>roo.home as its e-mail domain. Could that be the cause of the problem?


No. email host doesn't affect this, only url (web) host


>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'chandlerfamily.org.uk'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.chandlerfamily.org.uk'
>
>#add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST,DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) This should already be set


Maybe, maybe not. It was set in Defaults.py with the Defaults.py values
of DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST. If the assignments above
are different from what's in Defaults.py, the best bet is to put the
following two lines here.

VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST,DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)


>#Following map internal mail lists to several potential host names
>add_virtualhost('mail.home', 'mail.home')
>add_virtualhost('www.home','mail.home')
>add_virtualhost('roo.home','mail.home')
>#Following done so virtual connection via ssh also works
>add_virtualhost('localhost','mail.home')


This is all OK, but it probably doesn't do what you want. What it does
do is it allows lists to be created in any of the domains
www.chandlerfamily.org.uk, mail.home, www.home, roo.home and localhost
and all of these but the first will have the associated email domain
mail.home.

But, lists created in the mail.home domain for example will only appear
on the mail.home listinfo page; lists in the www.home domain will only
appear on the www.home ,listinfo page, and so forth.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.062.htp>
for a more detailed discussion.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From matthew at grandjunctiondesign.com  Fri Feb  3 00:59:33 2006
From: matthew at grandjunctiondesign.com (Matthew O'Malley)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 18:59:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unwanted Unsubscribe Notifications
Message-ID: <005f01c62854$b8190850$6401a8c0@sierranevada>

Hello all - thanks in advance for any suggestions.

 

My list moderators are receiving unsubscribe notifications for the list, and
I don't know how to turn that off.  I have (under General Options) "Should
administrator get notices of subscribes and unsubscribes?" set to "No", but
I'm wondering if there's another setting I need to turn off.

 

I have (under General Options) "Should the list moderators get immediate
notice of new requests" set to "Yes" because it's a fully moderated list,
and I want them to get the notices that there's a new message immediately.

 

At the moment, I also have Emergency moderation of all list traffic enabled.

 

Thanks,

Matthew O'Malley

 



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb  3 01:16:36 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 16:16:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unwanted Unsubscribe Notifications
In-Reply-To: <005f01c62854$b8190850$6401a8c0@sierranevada>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602021616360296e36775ec@msapiro>

Matthew O'Malley wrote:
>
>My list moderators are receiving unsubscribe notifications for the list, and
>I don't know how to turn that off.  I have (under General Options) "Should
>administrator get notices of subscribes and unsubscribes?" set to "No", but
>I'm wondering if there's another setting I need to turn off.


That should be the one. Some processes, e.g. admin mass unsubscribe and
bin/sync_members, have the ability to override this setting. How are
your members getting unsubscribed?


>I have (under General Options) "Should the list moderators get immediate
>notice of new requests" set to "Yes" because it's a fully moderated list,
>and I want them to get the notices that there's a new message immediately.


And that's the setting for this, but


>At the moment, I also have Emergency moderation of all list traffic enabled.


Notices are not sent for emergency moderation holds. This is by design
because emergency is for unusual circumstances and it is felt the
notices would be annoying.

However, member moderation is checked before emergency moderation, so
there should be a notice for a post from a moderated member even if
emergency is on.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb  3 01:56:13 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 16:56:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issues with replaced characters/newlines in
	mailmanlists
In-Reply-To: <43E181AA.1060409@anc.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602021656130109629f2a5a@msapiro>

Matt Zorzin wrote:

>My company runs several mailman lists for internal usage, which we have 
>been happy with for years. Recently after an upgrade, our system has 
>started behaving strangely.


Upgrade from what to what?


>We have an automated ticket system that occasionally sends out email to 
>the lists. This has always worked fine in the past. Lately, it is 
>starting to replace spaces in the subject header with odd characters and 
>newlines....but only on two of the four lists.
>
>An example: This is a copy/paste of an affected message's header.
>
>Subject: [XXX-List] XXXXX-XXXXX: unit not eligible for warranty
>	despite being purchased as new
>
>You'll notice the newline after 'warranty'.


The newline is a result of RFC 2822 header folding applied to long
headers. The headers may start out long or they may grow because of
the addition of the subject prefix. MUAs such as Outlook Express and
Mozilla should unfold the subject and display it without the newline.


>Also, most of the spaces in these subjects are being replaced by 
>characters unprintable in Outlook Express or Mozilla; we get little 
>black squares in between each word, which indicates some sort of 
>character set error.


I don't know what would cause this. Does it happen for all posts or
only on posts from the ticket system? i.e. what happens if you send a
normal email post to a ticket list?

What does the actual, raw subject look like if you view the 'message
source'?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From alan at chandlerfamily.org.uk  Fri Feb  3 05:57:20 2006
From: alan at chandlerfamily.org.uk (Alan Chandler)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 04:57:20 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie struggling with add_virtualhosts
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602021545460531a6288fc1@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200602021545460531a6288fc1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200602030457.21070.alan@chandlerfamily.org.uk>

On Thursday 02 February 2006 23:45, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Alan Chandler wrote:
...
> >Therefore, for a single e-mail domain (mail.home) I want to map several
> > web server synonyms to it (www.home, mail.home, roo.home and localhost).
> >

Just to be clear - what I mean by this is if I visit ANY of the web sites 
www.home, mail.home, roo.home, localhost  I want to get the same set of lists 
(they happen to be a set of gated newsgroups), if I visit 
www.chandlerfamily.org.uk I get another set (genuine mailing lists created by 
me)

...
> This is all OK, but it probably doesn't do what you want. What it does
> do is it allows lists to be created in any of the domains
> www.chandlerfamily.org.uk, mail.home, www.home, roo.home and localhost
> and all of these but the first will have the associated email domain
> mail.home.

You say it doesn't do what I want - but I can't see what I should therefore 
do.  Is what I want to do possible?

>
> But, lists created in the mail.home domain for example will only appear
> on the mail.home listinfo page; lists in the www.home domain will only
> appear on the www.home ,listinfo page, and so forth.

Its the "lists created in the mail.home domain" bit I only half understand.  
If I have understood everything correctly that I have read, there is a 
mailing list parameter called web_page_url.  It doesn't appear on any of the 
lists configuration options but I could run a python script called fix_url.py 
to change it.  It is this parameter which is looked up in the virtualhosts 
table to get an e-mail host.

The bit I don't understand is how does the e-mail host effect what is 
displayed on a partitular listinfo page based on the url the user used to 
access that page.

>
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.062.htp>
> for a more detailed discussion.

I read through that, and I understand everything it says (I think:-) ), but I 
doesn't appear to answer my question.

-- 
Alan Chandler
http://www.chandlerfamily.org.uk
Open Source. It's the difference between trust and antitrust.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb  3 06:15:52 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 21:15:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie struggling with add_virtualhosts
In-Reply-To: <200602030457.21070.alan@chandlerfamily.org.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602022115520375646dbaab@msapiro>

Alan Chandler wrote:
>
>Just to be clear - what I mean by this is if I visit ANY of the web sites 
>www.home, mail.home, roo.home, localhost  I want to get the same set of lists 
>(they happen to be a set of gated newsgroups), if I visit 
>www.chandlerfamily.org.uk I get another set (genuine mailing lists created by 
>me)


Yes, I understood that.


>> This is all OK, but it probably doesn't do what you want. What it does
>> do is it allows lists to be created in any of the domains
>> www.chandlerfamily.org.uk, mail.home, www.home, roo.home and localhost
>> and all of these but the first will have the associated email domain
>> mail.home.
>
>You say it doesn't do what I want - but I can't see what I should therefore 
>do.  Is what I want to do possible?


Yes, see below.

>> But, lists created in the mail.home domain for example will only appear
>> on the mail.home listinfo page; lists in the www.home domain will only
>> appear on the www.home ,listinfo page, and so forth.
>
>Its the "lists created in the mail.home domain" bit I only half understand.  
>If I have understood everything correctly that I have read, there is a 
>mailing list parameter called web_page_url.  It doesn't appear on any of the 
>lists configuration options but I could run a python script called fix_url.py 
>to change it.  It is this parameter which is looked up in the virtualhosts 
>table to get an e-mail host.


That's essentially correct.


>The bit I don't understand is how does the e-mail host effect what is 
>displayed on a partitular listinfo page based on the url the user used to 
>access that page.


It doesn't. What determines whether or not a list is displayed
(assuming it's public) on the listinfo and admin overviews is whether
or not the host name part of it's web_page_url attribute matches the
host name part of the accessing URL.


>> See
>> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.062.htp>
>> for a more detailed discussion.
>
>I read through that, and I understand everything it says (I think:-) ), but I 
>doesn't appear to answer my question.

It attempts to tell you what you need to do in this case, but perhaps
it isn't clear.

You need to have two entries in your VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary as
created by

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

and for example

add_virtualhost('www.home', 'mail.home')

Then you need to create all your lists in one or the other of the two
domains 'www.chandlerfamily.org.uk' (DEFAULT_URL_HOST) or 'www.home'.

Then you need to configure your web server to rewrite all the other
(mail.home, roo.home and localhost) host names as www.home.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From j.harris at digital-ink.co.uk  Fri Feb  3 14:18:55 2006
From: j.harris at digital-ink.co.uk (Jon Harris)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 13:18:55 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with arch after upgrade
Message-ID: <69017732FDF92A4BB7E6F6B2E33B25B301D13997@server2900.DigitalInk.local>

Hi List

I have just got round to upgrading from 2.1.6 to 2.1.7 and the upgrade
went well.

I just thought I had better run ./arch to tidy up the archives which
gave me a series of errors.


I got a whole series of these, which looks good:

----------------------
Updating index files for archive [Week-of-Mon-20060130]
  Date
  Subject
  Author
  Thread
Computing threaded index
Updating HTML for article 1174
Updating HTML for article 1175
Updating HTML for article 1176
Updating HTML for article 1177
Updating HTML for article 1178
Updating HTML for article 1179
--------------------------

Then this happened:

------------------------
Pickling archive state into
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/cafcnews/pipermail.pck
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./arch", line 200, in ?
    main()
  File "./arch", line 188, in main
    archiver.processUnixMailbox(fp, start, end)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 585, in
processUnixMailbox
    self.add_article(a)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 626, in
add_article
    filename))
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 1116, in
write_article
    f.write(article.as_text())
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 579, in
as_text
    '\g<1>' + _(' at ') + '\g<2>', body)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/sre.py", line 143, in sub
    return _compile(pattern, 0).sub(repl, string, count)
UnicodeError: ASCII decoding error: ordinal not in range(128)

--------------------------

Which doesn't look good :-( Should I be worried? 

Does anyone know what this means?

TIA

Jon Harris



From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Fri Feb  3 15:14:23 2006
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 23:14:23 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with arch after upgrade
In-Reply-To: <69017732FDF92A4BB7E6F6B2E33B25B301D13997@server2900.DigitalInk.local>
References: <69017732FDF92A4BB7E6F6B2E33B25B301D13997@server2900.DigitalInk.local>
Message-ID: <43E3653F.5020200@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Jon Harris wrote:
> Hi List
> 
> I have just got round to upgrading from 2.1.6 to 2.1.7 and the upgrade
> went well.
> 

>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 579, in
> as_text
>     '\g<1>' + _(' at ') + '\g<2>', body)
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.2/sre.py", line 143, in sub
>     return _compile(pattern, 0).sub(repl, string, count)
> UnicodeError: ASCII decoding error: ordinal not in range(128)

Please apply this patch and look how it goes.
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1405790&group_id=103&atid=300103

Apply with patch -p0 (or -p1) < this_patch in the source tree and make 
install again.

> 
> --------------------------
> 
> Which doesn't look good :-( Should I be worried? 


-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/


From phosmane at fedworld.gov  Fri Feb  3 16:41:18 2006
From: phosmane at fedworld.gov (Pad Hosmane)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 10:41:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrade mailman-2.1.4 to mailman-2.1.7
Message-ID: <200602031542.k13FgfBo021929@apollo.fedworld.gov>

Hi,
  We are using mailman-2.1.4 on HP-UX. It is running without any issues. Now
we want to upgrade it to latest version 2.1.7. I searched online for
documentation about upgrade, and I could not find any. Can anyone guide me
how to do the upgrade or provide URL where I can get information about
upgrade?

Thanks
PAd




From matthew at grandjunctiondesign.com  Fri Feb  3 17:57:03 2006
From: matthew at grandjunctiondesign.com (Matthew O'Malley)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 11:57:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unwanted Unsubscribe Notifications
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602021616360296e36775ec@msapiro>
Message-ID: <006201c628e2$dda0a310$6401a8c0@sierranevada>

Responses below-

Matthew O'Malley wrote:
>>My list moderators are receiving unsubscribe notifications for the list,
>>I don't know how to turn that off.  I have (under General Options) "Should
>>administrator get notices of subscribes and unsubscribes?" set to "No",
>>but I'm wondering if there's another setting I need to turn off.

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>That should be the one. Some processes, e.g. admin mass unsubscribe and
>bin/sync_members, have the ability to override this setting. How are
>your members getting unsubscribed?

My members are unsubscribing themselves by sending an email to the list, so
I can't see that this would cause the notices to be sent to the moderators.

Thank you for your other moderation answers.

-Matthew O'Malley
Grand Junction Design



From clovis at agr.unicamp.br  Fri Feb  3 18:21:28 2006
From: clovis at agr.unicamp.br (Clovis Tristao)
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 15:21:28 -0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman log error
Message-ID: <43E39118.2020400@agr.unicamp.br>

Hi,

I am having problem with one of my Mailman lists, it stopped to function 
to one lists.
This appearing errors and several bounce-events-????.pck, when send 
e-mail to list.

My system:
Fedora Core 4
mailman-2.1.5-35

/var/log/mailman/smtp-failure:
Jan 29 05:09:49 2006 (1858) Low level smtp error: Server not connected, 
msgid: <43DA0C85.6070909 at mydomain.com>
Jan 29 05:09:49 2006 (1858) delivery to users at mydomain.com failed with 
code -1: Server not connected

dir/var/lib/mailman/data :
-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman    4335 Fev  3 14:25 
heldmsg-graduacao-l-95.pck
-rw-rw-rw-  1 mailman mailman       0 Fev  3 13:43 bounce-events-21966.pck
-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman  716831 Fev  3 12:48 heldmsg-docentes-l-79.pck
-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman   45113 Fev  3 12:45 
heldmsg-graduacao-l-94.pck
-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman   76828 Fev  3 08:58 heldmsg-posgrad-l-41.pck
-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman   34012 Fev  2 13:52 heldmsg-posgrad-l-40.pck
-rw-rw-rw-  1 mailman mailman    5645 Fev  1 08:24 bounce-events-02358.pck
-rw-rw-rw-  1 mailman mailman       0 Jan 30 10:37 bounce-events-01858.pck
-rw-rw-rw-  1 mailman mailman    1169 Jan 20 14:27 bounce-events-02362.pck

What they are these archives(held*,bounce*)? I have some archives of 
bounce?  It's normal?
As makes to debug these errors? How to fix?
Thanks a lot,
Cl?vis

-- 
Clovis Tristao - UNICAMP/Faculdade de Engenharia Agricola
Administrador de Redes - Secao de Informatica (SINFO)
E-mail: mailto:clovis at agr.unicamp.br http://www.agr.unicamp.br
Fone(0xx19) 37881031-37881038 ou FAX(55xx19) 37881005/37881010



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb  3 18:26:48 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 09:26:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrade mailman-2.1.4 to mailman-2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <200602031542.k13FgfBo021929@apollo.fedworld.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602030926480968f6ca2498@msapiro>

Pad Hosmane wrote:

>  We are using mailman-2.1.4 on HP-UX. It is running without any issues. Now
>we want to upgrade it to latest version 2.1.7. I searched online for
>documentation about upgrade, and I could not find any. Can anyone guide me
>how to do the upgrade or provide URL where I can get information about
>upgrade?


Upgrading is very straightforward. It consists of downloading and
unpacking the distribution and running 'configure', 'make', and 'make
install'. It is described in fairly complete detail in the UPGRADING
file that is in the top level directory in the distribution. Also see
section 3 of the installation manual at
admin/www/mailman-install/node6.html or
admin/www/mailman-install.(pdf|ps|txt) in the distribition.


In this case, there are a few important errors in the 2.1.7 release
which are fixed by the patch at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1405790&group_id=103&atid=300103>

This should be applied with

patch -p0 < this_patch

in the unpack directory before 'make install'. Or, you can wait for
2.1.8 which should be available within the month and fixes these and a
few other issues.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From chris.a.adams at state.or.us  Fri Feb  3 18:53:27 2006
From: chris.a.adams at state.or.us (Christopher Adams)
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:53:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrade mailman-2.1.4 to mailman-2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602030926480968f6ca2498@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200602030926480968f6ca2498@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43E39897.5010703@state.or.us>

One thing to keep in mind when upgrading Mailman is that some customized 
templates will be overwritten. The significant ones I can think of are 
listinfo.html and newlist.txt. So, I always at minimum the templates 
directory and copy over the files after the upgrade.


Christopher Adams


Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Pad Hosmane wrote:
> 
> 
>> We are using mailman-2.1.4 on HP-UX. It is running without any issues. Now
>>we want to upgrade it to latest version 2.1.7. I searched online for
>>documentation about upgrade, and I could not find any. Can anyone guide me
>>how to do the upgrade or provide URL where I can get information about
>>upgrade?
> 
> 
> 
> Upgrading is very straightforward. It consists of downloading and
> unpacking the distribution and running 'configure', 'make', and 'make
> install'. It is described in fairly complete detail in the UPGRADING
> file that is in the top level directory in the distribution. Also see
> section 3 of the installation manual at
> admin/www/mailman-install/node6.html or
> admin/www/mailman-install.(pdf|ps|txt) in the distribition.
> 
> 
> In this case, there are a few important errors in the 2.1.7 release
> which are fixed by the patch at
> <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1405790&group_id=103&atid=300103>
> 
> This should be applied with
> 
> patch -p0 < this_patch
> 
> in the unpack directory before 'make install'. Or, you can wait for
> 2.1.8 which should be available within the month and fixes these and a
> few other issues.
> 



From ruf at rawip.org  Fri Feb  3 18:28:37 2006
From: ruf at rawip.org (Lukas Ruf)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 18:28:37 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange URL for archive access
Message-ID: <20060203172836.GB5967@tik.ee.ethz.ch>

Dear all,

I have the following problem:

while clicking on listinfo -> 'listname' works, clicking on the
provided archive URL doesn't.  After searching the web without
success, I contact you.

I setup a mailman on my server <https://lists.lpr.ch/mailman/listinfo> to
- serve requests via https
- allow for shortened URLs
on a Debian/Linux system.

with /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py settings as follows:
  IMAGE_LOGOS         = '/images/mailman/'
  PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/cgi-bin/mailman/private'
  PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'http://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'
  DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
  DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.lpr.ch'
  DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'lists.lpr.ch'
  add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

and with /etc/apache2/conf.d/mailman as follows:
  ScriptAlias    /cgi-bin/mailman/    /var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
  ScriptAlias    /mailman/            /var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
  Alias          /pipermail/          /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
  Alias          /images/mailman/     /usr/share/images/mailman/
  Alias          /doc/mailman/images/ /usr/share/images/mailman/

  <Directory "/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/">
      Options FollowSymLinks
  </Directory>

In my apache2-settings, I have no redirect related with mailman.

Thus, when pointing on my "info" list on
<https://lists.lpr.ch/mailman/listinfo>, the corresponding info page
<https://lists.lpr.ch/mailman/listinfo/info> is displayed correctly.
However, when I click there on archive, my web-browser makes use of
<https://lists.lpr.ch/mailman/listinfopipermail/info/> instead of
<https://lists.lpr.ch/pipermail/info/> which works.

Why?  What do I do wrong?

Thanks in advance for any hint!

wbr,
Lukas
-- 
Lukas Ruf   <http://www.lpr.ch> | Ad Personam
rbacs      <http://wiki.lpr.ch> | Restaurants, Bars and Clubs
Raw IP   <http://www.rawip.org> | Low Level Network Programming
Style  <http://email.rawip.org> | How to write emails


From ruf at rawip.org  Fri Feb  3 18:32:16 2006
From: ruf at rawip.org (Lukas Ruf)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 18:32:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange URL for archive access
In-Reply-To: <20060203172836.GB5967@tik.ee.ethz.ch>
References: <20060203172836.GB5967@tik.ee.ethz.ch>
Message-ID: <20060203173216.GC5967@tik.ee.ethz.ch>

Dear all,

> Lukas Ruf <ruf at rawip.org> [2006-02-03 18:28]:
>
> I setup a mailman on my server <https://lists.lpr.ch/mailman/listinfo> to
> - serve requests via https
> - allow for shortened URLs
> on a Debian/Linux system.
>

I forgot to add: I am using mailman 2.1.7 with apache 2.0.55.

Sorry....

wbr,
Lukas
-- 
Lukas Ruf   <http://www.lpr.ch> | Ad Personam
rbacs      <http://wiki.lpr.ch> | Restaurants, Bars and Clubs
Raw IP   <http://www.rawip.org> | Low Level Network Programming
Style  <http://email.rawip.org> | How to write emails


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb  3 19:31:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 10:31:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrade mailman-2.1.4 to mailman-2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <43E39897.5010703@state.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602031031560343af35e24f@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:

>One thing to keep in mind when upgrading Mailman is that some customized 
>templates will be overwritten. The significant ones I can think of are 
>listinfo.html and newlist.txt. So, I always at minimum the templates 
>directory and copy over the files after the upgrade.

This is true if you edit the base template in templates/<lang>/, but
you should never do that. If you install edited templates as described
in
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>,
they will not be overwritten during an upgrade.

Note however that occasionally, base templates need to be modified to
accommodate some other change, so if you have custom templates, it is
a good idea to compare them to the base after an upgrade to make sure
that the only differences are your own changes.

In this case, there is an easily overlooked change to private.html for
2.1.7 that removes the trailing slash from the post URL in the
template to accommodate the fix for bug 1080943.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb  3 19:45:05 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 10:45:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange URL for archive access
In-Reply-To: <20060203172836.GB5967@tik.ee.ethz.ch>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602031045050281b605b21e@msapiro>

Lukas Ruf wrote:
>
>while clicking on listinfo -> 'listname' works, clicking on the
>provided archive URL doesn't.  After searching the web without
>success, I contact you.
>
>I setup a mailman on my server <https://lists.lpr.ch/mailman/listinfo> to

What archive URL doesn't work?

I just went to your listinfo overview page and from there to the
listinfo pages for the info and muttprint lists and tried the archive
link on each of those pages and it worked for me.

BTW, I notice your PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL is 'http' and your
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN is 'https'. Is this intentional?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb  3 20:12:14 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 11:12:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman log error
In-Reply-To: <43E39118.2020400@agr.unicamp.br>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602031112140406713aefc4@msapiro>

Clovis Tristao wrote:
>
>I am having problem with one of my Mailman lists, it stopped to function
>to one lists.
>This appearing errors and several bounce-events-????.pck, when send
>e-mail to list.


Errors in the error log? What are they?


>My system:
>Fedora Core 4
>mailman-2.1.5-35
>
>/var/log/mailman/smtp-failure:
>Jan 29 05:09:49 2006 (1858) Low level smtp error: Server not connected, 
>msgid: <43DA0C85.6070909 at mydomain.com>
>Jan 29 05:09:49 2006 (1858) delivery to users at mydomain.com failed with 
>code -1: Server not connected


This was presumably a transient error in communicating with your
outgoing MTA. You could check your MTA logs for the same time to see
if there's more info there.


>dir/var/lib/mailman/data :
>-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman    4335 Fev  3 14:25 
>heldmsg-graduacao-l-95.pck
>-rw-rw-rw-  1 mailman mailman       0 Fev  3 13:43 bounce-events-21966.pck
>-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman  716831 Fev  3 12:48 heldmsg-docentes-l-79.pck
>-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman   45113 Fev  3 12:45 
>heldmsg-graduacao-l-94.pck
>-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman   76828 Fev  3 08:58 heldmsg-posgrad-l-41.pck
>-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman   34012 Fev  2 13:52 heldmsg-posgrad-l-40.pck
>-rw-rw-rw-  1 mailman mailman    5645 Fev  1 08:24 bounce-events-02358.pck
>-rw-rw-rw-  1 mailman mailman       0 Jan 30 10:37 bounce-events-01858.pck
>-rw-rw-rw-  1 mailman mailman    1169 Jan 20 14:27 bounce-events-02362.pck
>
>What they are these archives(held*,bounce*)? I have some archives of
>bounce?  It's normal?


The BounceRunner queues bounces as they are received and only processes
them at intervals determined by the Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py setting
REGISTER_BOUNCES_EVERY which defaults to 15 minutes. The bounces are
queued in the bounce-events-*.pck files. If the bounce runner is
stopped or restarted when there is an outstanding file, the file can
be orphaned and the bounces lost. All the older bounce-events-*.pck
files are such and can be deleted.

The heldmsg-<listname>-*.pck files are messages for <listname> waiting
moderator action. When the moderator discards, rejects or approves the
messages, the files will be removed.


None of these things would be responsible for one list not functioning.

In Mailman 2.1.5, it is possible that a malformed message of some kind
in the lists/<listname>/digest.mbox file can stop a list from
processing, but there should be 'shunted' messages and tracebacks in
Mailman's 'error' log if this is the case. What's in the 'error' log?

If there is a lists/<listname>/digest.mbox file for the problem list,
you could try moving it out of the lists/<listname>/ directory and see
if that allows the list to work. The real solution, if this is the
problem, is to find the bad message in lists/<listname>/digest.mbox
and fix or delete it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb  3 20:22:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 11:22:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unwanted Unsubscribe Notifications
In-Reply-To: <006201c628e2$dda0a310$6401a8c0@sierranevada>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602031122540031713aee75@msapiro>

Matthew O'Malley wrote:
>
>My members are unsubscribing themselves by sending an email to the list, so
>I can't see that this would cause the notices to be sent to the moderators.

If this is the case, notice should be controlled by
admin_notify_mchanges on the list's General Options page.

If however, they are being unsubscribed by automated bounce processing,
the notice is controlled by bounce_notify_owner_on_removal on the
Bounce processing page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From clovis at agr.unicamp.br  Fri Feb  3 20:34:46 2006
From: clovis at agr.unicamp.br (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Cl=F3vis_Trist=E3o?=)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 17:34:46 -0200 (BRST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman log error
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602031112140406713aefc4@msapiro>
References: <43E39118.2020400@agr.unicamp.br>
	<PC1740200602031112140406713aefc4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4305.200.245.19.39.1138995286.squirrel@jacaranda.agr.unicamp.br>

> Clovis Tristao wrote:
>>
>>I am having problem with one of my Mailman lists, it stopped to function
>>to one lists.
>>This appearing errors and several bounce-events-????.pck, when send
>>e-mail to list.
>
>
> Errors in the error log? What are they?

Errors sorry, I expressed myself badly.

>
>>My system:
>>Fedora Core 4
>>mailman-2.1.5-35
>>
>>/var/log/mailman/smtp-failure:
>>Jan 29 05:09:49 2006 (1858) Low level smtp error: Server not connected,
>>msgid: <43DA0C85.6070909 at mydomain.com>
>>Jan 29 05:09:49 2006 (1858) delivery to users at mydomain.com failed with
>>code -1: Server not connected
>
>
> This was presumably a transient error in communicating with your
> outgoing MTA. You could check your MTA logs for the same time to see
> if there's more info there.
>
>
>>dir/var/lib/mailman/data :
>>-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman    4335 Fev  3 14:25
>>heldmsg-graduacao-l-95.pck
>>-rw-rw-rw-  1 mailman mailman       0 Fev  3 13:43
>> bounce-events-21966.pck
>>-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman  716831 Fev  3 12:48
>> heldmsg-docentes-l-79.pck
>>-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman   45113 Fev  3 12:45
>>heldmsg-graduacao-l-94.pck
>>-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman   76828 Fev  3 08:58
>> heldmsg-posgrad-l-41.pck
>>-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman   34012 Fev  2 13:52
>> heldmsg-posgrad-l-40.pck
>>-rw-rw-rw-  1 mailman mailman    5645 Fev  1 08:24
>> bounce-events-02358.pck
>>-rw-rw-rw-  1 mailman mailman       0 Jan 30 10:37
>> bounce-events-01858.pck
>>-rw-rw-rw-  1 mailman mailman    1169 Jan 20 14:27
>> bounce-events-02362.pck
>>
>>What they are these archives(held*,bounce*)? I have some archives of
>>bounce?  It's normal?
>
>
> The BounceRunner queues bounces as they are received and only processes
> them at intervals determined by the Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py setting
> REGISTER_BOUNCES_EVERY which defaults to 15 minutes. The bounces are
> queued in the bounce-events-*.pck files. If the bounce runner is
> stopped or restarted when there is an outstanding file, the file can
> be orphaned and the bounces lost. All the older bounce-events-*.pck
> files are such and can be deleted.
>
> The heldmsg-<listname>-*.pck files are messages for <listname> waiting
> moderator action. When the moderator discards, rejects or approves the
> messages, the files will be removed.

Thanks for your explanation about it.

>
> None of these things would be responsible for one list not functioning.
>
> In Mailman 2.1.5, it is possible that a malformed message of some kind
> in the lists/<listname>/digest.mbox file can stop a list from
> processing, but there should be 'shunted' messages and tracebacks in
> Mailman's 'error' log if this is the case. What's in the 'error' log?

The stranger is that the message goes for archive of the list but does not
arrive in the members.
I noticed that he has many members(20%) that do not make more part of the
list and in log(MTA) it says that the user is unknown. Can be this the
problem?

>
> If there is a lists/<listname>/digest.mbox file for the problem list,
> you could try moving it out of the lists/<listname>/ directory and see
> if that allows the list to work. The real solution, if this is the
> problem, is to find the bad message in lists/<listname>/digest.mbox
> and fix or delete it.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

Thanks a lot,

Clovis

-- 




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb  3 21:01:34 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 12:01:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman log error
In-Reply-To: <4305.200.245.19.39.1138995286.squirrel@jacaranda.agr.unicamp.br>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602031201340671dbb753a1@msapiro>

Cl?vis Trist?o wrote:
>>
>> Errors in the error log? What are they?
>
>Errors sorry, I expressed myself badly.


So if I understand you correctly, there are no errors in
/var/log/mailman/error - Correct?



>The stranger is that the message goes for archive of the list but does not
>arrive in the members.
>I noticed that he has many members(20%) that do not make more part of the
>list and in log(MTA) it says that the user is unknown. Can be this the
>problem?


If the message is getting as far as the MTA to be logged there as an
unknown user then there is no Mailman problem. The problem is in
delivery from the MTA to the user. These problems should be reported
back to Mailman at the <listname>-bounces address and there should be
entries about them in Mailman's 'bounce' log assuming bounce
processing is enabled for the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From alan at chandlerfamily.org.uk  Fri Feb  3 21:01:55 2006
From: alan at chandlerfamily.org.uk (Alan Chandler)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 20:01:55 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie struggling with add_virtualhosts
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602022115520375646dbaab@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200602022115520375646dbaab@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200602032001.56217.alan@chandlerfamily.org.uk>

On Friday 03 February 2006 05:15, Mark Sapiro wrote:
...
> Then you need to configure your web server to rewrite all the other
> (mail.home, roo.home and localhost) host names as www.home.

Ah! The missing piece of the jigsaw.

Now I understand.

Not sure if I can handle the ssh port forwarding case from a machine outside 
my network localhost (this is normally from a machine which will never even 
know the existance of the .home domain since the dns server for that remains 
very firmly just in my lan) - but I guess I can live with that.

-- 
Alan Chandler
http://www.chandlerfamily.org.uk
Open Source. It's the difference between trust and antitrust.


From chris.a.adams at state.or.us  Fri Feb  3 22:04:42 2006
From: chris.a.adams at state.or.us (Christopher Adams)
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 13:04:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrade mailman-2.1.4 to mailman-2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602031031560343af35e24f@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200602031031560343af35e24f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43E3C56A.70808@state.or.us>

Thanks, Mark. I was aware that list-specific templates could be set up
and I guess I didn't think about the effect of upgrades on them.
As I understand the FAQ, Mailman will look for the templates
first in the list specific directory, and if it doesn't exist, in the
base template directory. We host over 500 lists. Most list owners do not
modify their list information template. In order for most of the lists
to reflect the information that I want, I edited the base template. If a 
list owner has a list specific template,  it will override whatever 
changes I make in the base template.

It looks like, until you actually go to the list information page in the
list admin page and make edits, it uses the base template listinfo.html.
Once you have edited the list-specific listinfo page, it uses the base
template. Even adding the description in the General Options doesn't
create the /lists/<language>/ directory. It still uses the base template
until you go to the page and edit it.

It would be nice if there were specific parts of the listinfo.html page 
that could not be changed by list owners. As it is, it seems that my 
changing the base template listinfo.html is useless for several reasons. 
One, it is overridden when an update takes place and two, it is 
overridden as soon as the list-specific page is edited, which occurs 
with every one of our lists. The only use for the customized base 
template is if list owners don't make any edits to the list info page.



Christopher Adams
Library Systems Analyst
Oregon State Library
503-378-5031
503-932-1004 (general support line)
chris.a.adams at state.or.us


Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Christopher Adams wrote:
> 
> 
>>One thing to keep in mind when upgrading Mailman is that some customized 
>>templates will be overwritten. The significant ones I can think of are 
>>listinfo.html and newlist.txt. So, I always at minimum the templates 
>>directory and copy over the files after the upgrade.
> 
> 
> This is true if you edit the base template in templates/<lang>/, but
> you should never do that. If you install edited templates as described
> in
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>,
> they will not be overwritten during an upgrade.
> 
> Note however that occasionally, base templates need to be modified to
> accommodate some other change, so if you have custom templates, it is
> a good idea to compare them to the base after an upgrade to make sure
> that the only differences are your own changes.
> 
> In this case, there is an easily overlooked change to private.html for
> 2.1.7 that removes the trailing slash from the post URL in the
> template to accommodate the fix for bug 1080943.
> 




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb  3 22:27:27 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 13:27:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrade mailman-2.1.4 to mailman-2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <43E3C56A.70808@state.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602031327270781e2cde2c8@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:

>Thanks, Mark. I was aware that list-specific templates could be set up
>and I guess I didn't think about the effect of upgrades on them.
>As I understand the FAQ, Mailman will look for the templates
>first in the list specific directory, and if it doesn't exist, in the
>base template directory. We host over 500 lists. Most list owners do not
>modify their list information template. In order for most of the lists
>to reflect the information that I want, I edited the base template. If a 
>list owner has a list specific template,  it will override whatever 
>changes I make in the base template.


There are two other places edited templates can be put. In addition to
putting an edited template in lists/<listname>/<lang>/ (where it will
be used only for that list and language), you can put it in
templates/<hostname>/<lang>/ where it will become the default template
for that virtual host and language, and you can put it in
templates/site/<lang>/ where it will become the default for the entire
installation for that language.


>It looks like, until you actually go to the list information page in the
>list admin page and make edits, it uses the base template listinfo.html.


Or the <host> or site template if any.


>Once you have edited the list-specific listinfo page, it uses the base
>template.


I think you mean list specific, not base.


>Even adding the description in the General Options doesn't
>create the /lists/<language>/ directory. It still uses the base template
>until you go to the page and edit it.


Or the <host> or site template, but yes, the 'edit' page only creates
the lists/<lisname>/<lang>/ directory and/or template when the edited
template is first saved.


>It would be nice if there were specific parts of the listinfo.html page 
>that could not be changed by list owners. As it is, it seems that my 
>changing the base template listinfo.html is useless for several reasons. 
>One, it is overridden when an update takes place


Not if you put it in templates/site/<lang>/


>and two, it is 
>overridden as soon as the list-specific page is edited, which occurs 
>with every one of our lists. The only use for the customized base 
>template is if list owners don't make any edits to the list info page.


But if you have a custom template say in
templates/site/en/listinfo.html, and there is not a list specific
template, when the listowner first edits the template, she will get
the 'site' template as the base to edit.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From zorzin at anc.net  Fri Feb  3 23:10:13 2006
From: zorzin at anc.net (Matt Zorzin)
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 16:10:13 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issues with replaced characters/newlines in
	mailmanlists
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602021656130109629f2a5a@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200602021656130109629f2a5a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43E3D4C5.6050704@anc.net>



Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Matt Zorzin wrote:
> 
> 
>>My company runs several mailman lists for internal usage, which we have 
>>been happy with for years. Recently after an upgrade, our system has 
>>started behaving strangely.
> 
> 
> 
> Upgrade from what to what?
> 
> 

I must clarify on this. This is a clean mailman 2.1.6 install from 
scratch. We configured all four mailing lists separately and identically.

We are not sure, but our previous version was in the 2.0 family.

> 
> I don't know what would cause this. Does it happen for all posts or
> only on posts from the ticket system? i.e. what happens if you send a
> normal email post to a ticket list?

Emails from a client such as OE or Mozilla do not get mangled. Only 
posts from our ticket system are affected.

> 
> What does the actual, raw subject look like if you view the 'message
> source'?
> 

This is an exact copy and paste of an affected subject, with info 
obfuscated but of an identical length to the original information:

Subject: [Suspect List XX] 1111111111-111111: Subject of emails coming from
	mailing lists with "?" between words

Our mail clients all run through AVG Enterprise antivirus.

One interesting note is that it seems that many posts from this very 
list (mailman-users) are exhibiting the same symptoms; i'm getting the 
nonprintable characters in Mozilla, and a 'view source' shows a newline 
in the subject.

Matt



From rebjr at dbpromos.com  Fri Feb  3 16:26:04 2006
From: rebjr at dbpromos.com (Bob Bales)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 09:26:04 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HELP!
References: <69017732FDF92A4BB7E6F6B2E33B25B301D13997@server2900.DigitalInk.local>
	<43E3653F.5020200@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <00a501c628d6$25f73c30$6401a8c0@main>

I have a mailman list that has been working just fine. But, all of a sudden 
my admin account is not receiving mail from or sending mail to the list. Any 
suggestions?

Bob Bales


From chris.a.adams at state.or.us  Sat Feb  4 00:00:17 2006
From: chris.a.adams at state.or.us (Christopher Adams)
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 15:00:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] customizing templates
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602031327270781e2cde2c8@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200602031327270781e2cde2c8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43E3E081.7010300@state.or.us>

> But if you have a custom template say in
> templates/site/en/listinfo.html, and there is not a list specific
> template, when the listowner first edits the template, she will get
> the 'site' template as the base to edit.

That's good information to know. Thanks. I am a bit confused about this 
/templates/site/en/ directory. There isn't a directory 'site' under 
prefix/templates/. I only see the language directories. Do I have to 
create a new directory?

Please enlighten.



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Feb  4 00:27:38 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:27:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] customizing templates
In-Reply-To: <43E3E081.7010300@state.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602031527380015af969f95@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:
>
>That's good information to know. Thanks. I am a bit confused about this 
>/templates/site/en/ directory. There isn't a directory 'site' under 
>prefix/templates/. I only see the language directories. Do I have to 
>create a new directory?


Yes. That way, you know it won't be overwritten in an update :-)

Seriously, you have to create the 'site' and site/<lang>' directories
in templates/. Then any edited templates you put there will become the
default templates for that language at your site. And, they won't be
changed in an update.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Feb  4 00:29:53 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:29:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HELP!
In-Reply-To: <00a501c628d6$25f73c30$6401a8c0@main>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602031529530859e33800f0@msapiro>

Bob Bales wrote:

>I have a mailman list that has been working just fine. But, all of a sudden 
>my admin account is not receiving mail from or sending mail to the list. Any 
>suggestions?

Is it still subscribed?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Feb  4 01:21:24 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 16:21:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issues with replaced characters/newlines in
	mailman lists
In-Reply-To: <43E3D4C5.6050704@anc.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402006020316212403127022fb70@msapiro>

Matt Zorzin wrote:
>
>We are not sure, but our previous version was in the 2.0 family.


I'm not familiar offhand with what 2.0.x did WRT folding subject
headers, but maybe it didn't.

 
>> What does the actual, raw subject look like if you view the 'message
>> source'?
>> 
>
>This is an exact copy and paste of an affected subject, with info 
>obfuscated but of an identical length to the original information:
>
>Subject: [Suspect List XX] 1111111111-111111: Subject of emails coming from
>	mailing lists with "?" between words


The only thing I see in this subject is RFC 2822 folding (i.e. the
newline followed by whitespace (a tab in this case) that is the
standard way of folding long headers. I see only spaces between words.
I see nothing that would cause your MUA (client) to show
'undisplayable' characters.


>Our mail clients all run through AVG Enterprise antivirus.
>
>One interesting note is that it seems that many posts from this very 
>list (mailman-users) are exhibiting the same symptoms; i'm getting the 
>nonprintable characters in Mozilla, and a 'view source' shows a newline 
>in the subject.


As I indicated in my previous post, the newline comes from folding of a
long subject in a standard way. My MUA is going to do this to this
message which is going directly to you, not through Mailman. What do
you see in your MUA as the subject of this message?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From clovis at agr.unicamp.br  Sat Feb  4 01:38:20 2006
From: clovis at agr.unicamp.br (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Cl=F3vis_Trist=E3o?=)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 22:38:20 -0200 (BRST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman log error
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602031201340671dbb753a1@msapiro>
References: <4305.200.245.19.39.1138995286.squirrel@jacaranda.agr.unicamp.br>
	<PC1740200602031201340671dbb753a1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <2447.200.245.19.39.1139013500.squirrel@jacaranda.agr.unicamp.br>

> Cl?vis Trist?o wrote:
>>>
>>> Errors in the error log? What are they?
>>
>>Errors sorry, I expressed myself badly.
>
>
> So if I understand you correctly, there are no errors in
> /var/log/mailman/error - Correct?

Yes...

>>The stranger is that the message goes for archive of the list but does
>> not
>>arrive in the members.
>>I noticed that he has many members(20%) that do not make more part of the
>>list and in log(MTA) it says that the user is unknown. Can be this the
>>problem?
>
>
> If the message is getting as far as the MTA to be logged there as an
> unknown user then there is no Mailman problem. The problem is in
> delivery from the MTA to the user. These problems should be reported
> back to Mailman at the <listname>-bounces address and there should be
> entries about them in Mailman's 'bounce' log assuming bounce
> processing is enabled for the list.

OK, I?m going to remove the unknown users.
Thanks a lot.
Cl?vis

-- 
Administrador de Redes
Faculdade de Engenharia Agr?cola - FEAGRI
Universidade Estadual de Campinas - UNICAMP
http://www.agr.unicamp.br/



From clovis at agr.unicamp.br  Sat Feb  4 01:46:50 2006
From: clovis at agr.unicamp.br (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Cl=F3vis_Trist=E3o?=)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 22:46:50 -0200 (BRST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman log error
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602031201340671dbb753a1@msapiro>
References: <4305.200.245.19.39.1138995286.squirrel@jacaranda.agr.unicamp.br>
	<PC1740200602031201340671dbb753a1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <3048.200.245.19.39.1139014010.squirrel@jacaranda.agr.unicamp.br>

> If the message is getting as far as the MTA to be logged there as an
> unknown user then there is no Mailman problem. The problem is in
> delivery from the MTA to the user. These problems should be reported
> back to Mailman at the <listname>-bounces address and there should be
> entries about them in Mailman's 'bounce' log assuming bounce
> processing is enabled for the list.

Hi,

How to see the unknown users in Mailman? It is generate any log about
users unknown?
I saw in the /var/log/maillog, but is very difficult identify, many
information.
Thanks a lot,
Cl?vis

-- 
Administrador de Redes
Faculdade de Engenharia Agr?cola - FEAGRI
Universidade Estadual de Campinas - UNICAMP
http://www.agr.unicamp.br/



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Feb  4 02:27:27 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 17:27:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman log error
In-Reply-To: <3048.200.245.19.39.1139014010.squirrel@jacaranda.agr.unicamp.br>
Message-ID: <PC174020060203172727028123f66234@msapiro>

Cl?vis Trist?o wrote:
>
>How to see the unknown users in Mailman? It is generate any log about
>users unknown?
>I saw in the /var/log/maillog, but is very difficult identify, many
>information.

Go to the list admin Bounce processing page for the list and be sure
bounce_processing is set to Yes. Then, depending the frequency of
posts to your list and how agressive you want to be about removing
bouncing members, set the other options according to their
descriptions.

Then all bounces will be logged in the 'bounce' log. and members will
be automatically disabled and removed according to your settings.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Feb  4 01:47:36 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 01:47:36 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] AOL to Implement E-mail Certification Program
Message-ID: <p062007a2c009a8c98ed3@[10.0.1.210]>

Folks,

	Just saw this article at <http://www.clickz.com/news/article.php/3581301>:

		AOL to Implement E-mail Certification Program
		? ? ?   ClickZ News

		By Kevin Newcomb | January 30, 2006


		In a bid to protect its members from e-mail fraud and phishing, and
		to offer consistency to commercial e-mail senders, AOL today will
		begin implementing Goodmail's cryptographic CertifiedEmail program
		and phasing out its IP-based Enhanced Whitelist.

		As part of its e-mail security practices, AOL blocks the display
		of images and hyperlinks on most high-volume messages, except if
		senders are on the AOL Enhanced whitelist and maintain very low
		complaint rates. Beginning today, AOL will also allow senders who
		have undergone accreditation through Goodmail to display images
		and hyperlinks by default. Goodmail charges accredited companies
		a fraction of a cent per message sent.


	Read the rest at the URL above.


	So, any thoughts on what that means for mailing list operators 
around the world?  From my perspective, it looks like FAQ 3.42 (see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.042.htp>) 
is going to take a turn for the worst.

	Basically, unless you want to pay GoodMail to certify everything 
sent by your list, you just won't get through to AOL recipients.  So, 
I guess it's time to unsubscribe all AOL users.

	Thoughts?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From david at midrange.com  Sat Feb  4 02:45:05 2006
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 19:45:05 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] AOL to Implement E-mail Certification Program
In-Reply-To: <p062007a2c009a8c98ed3@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <p062007a2c009a8c98ed3@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <43E40721.2090807@midrange.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> 	Just saw this article at <http://www.clickz.com/news/article.php/3581301>:
> 
> 		AOL to Implement E-mail Certification Program

> 	Basically, unless you want to pay GoodMail to certify everything 
> sent by your list, you just won't get through to AOL recipients.  So, 
> I guess it's time to unsubscribe all AOL users.

I'm just going to tell my AOL subscribers to complain to AOL that they
aren't getting the mail they are expecting.

I figure there will be two possible outcomes ... a) AOL will change
their policy because of the number of complaints, or b) the AOL
subscribers will switch to a real email provider and the problem will go
away (along with, one hopes, AOL itself).

david



From kaitlyn at site-works.com  Sat Feb  4 03:12:10 2006
From: kaitlyn at site-works.com (Kaitlyn Taylor Considine)
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 21:12:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounces stopped on all lists
Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.2.20060203211046.0d86c160@siteworks.com>

A few weeks ago all mailman list owners stopped receiving bounces of any 
kind. They are not being misdirected to any of the cpanel WHM server 
contacts either. They can be seen briefly at 
/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/data/bounce-events-#####.pck and then 
those disappear as well, likely assuming they were delivered.

My sys guy has been unable to fix it....thinks it's a cpanel issue.

Any ideas?

Kaitlyn


From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Sat Feb  4 03:10:57 2006
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 20:10:57 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] AOL to Implement E-mail Certification Program
In-Reply-To: <43E40721.2090807@midrange.com>
Message-ID: <C0096951.151FE%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 2/3/06 7:45 PM, David Gibbs at david at midrange.com wrote:

> Brad Knowles wrote:
>> Just saw this article at <http://www.clickz.com/news/article.php/3581301>:
>> 
>> AOL to Implement E-mail Certification Program
> 
>> Basically, unless you want to pay GoodMail to certify everything
>> sent by your list, you just won't get through to AOL recipients.  So,
>> I guess it's time to unsubscribe all AOL users.
> 
> I'm just going to tell my AOL subscribers to complain to AOL that they
> aren't getting the mail they are expecting.

I quite agree. It's not my problem, it's the problem of the AOL user who
solicited mail from me and is not getting it.

Nothing I do provides me any direct benefit so I'm sure as heck not paying
for assured delivery. It all supports activities in which I'm a volunteer.
At best they lose a "fun" message. At worst, one of the soccer referees I
assign loses out on an assignment (I'm a volunteer but they get paid) -
maybe when they realize that lack of reliable mail delivery is costing them
money, they'll change.

-- 
Larry Stone
lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/




From dellsworth at mac.com  Sat Feb  4 03:49:36 2006
From: dellsworth at mac.com (David Ellsworth)
Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 21:49:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off confirmation?
Message-ID: <C0098070.6F46%dellsworth@mac.com>

I saw the archive thread regarding turning off just unsubscribing
confirmations. My client wants to turn all confirmations off. Can this be
done? They want to add addresses as they get approval in person (it's a
political campaign) but without all the confirmation process. Is that
possible? 

Thanks

David




From rebjr at dbpromos.com  Sat Feb  4 05:06:47 2006
From: rebjr at dbpromos.com (Bob Bales)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 22:06:47 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HELP!
References: <PC1740200602031529530859e33800f0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <008101c62940$6b5535b0$6401a8c0@main>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] HELP!


> Bob Bales wrote:
>
>>I have a mailman list that has been working just fine. But, all of a 
>>sudden
>>my admin account is not receiving mail from or sending mail to the list. 
>>Any
>>suggestions?
>
> Is it still subscribed?

Yes, Mark.

It is still subscribed. I had the same problem with this list, and I changed 
email addresses and that ended it, as far as receiving email. I emailed my 
"HELP" email at 9:23 am,  it didn't show up on the list until 4:23PM.

I changed addresses for the other list and didn't have any effect at all.

Bob 


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Feb  4 05:10:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 20:10:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounces stopped on all lists
In-Reply-To: <6.1.1.1.2.20060203211046.0d86c160@siteworks.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060203201010078114b75e97@msapiro>

Kaitlyn Taylor Considine wrote:

>A few weeks ago all mailman list owners stopped receiving bounces of any 
>kind. They are not being misdirected to any of the cpanel WHM server 
>contacts either. They can be seen briefly at 
>/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/data/bounce-events-#####.pck and then 
>those disappear as well, likely assuming they were delivered.


Not exactly. The Bounce runner queues all incoming bounces in a file
like the above and then every (default) 15 minutes processes all the
queued bounces in that file and removes the file. So that part of the
process is working.


What is in the bounce log (probably
/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/logs/bounce, but maybe elsewhere)?

If you go the the admin Bounce processing page for each list in turn,
is bounce_processing set to Yes and are all the notifications set to
Yes?


>My sys guy has been unable to fix it....thinks it's a cpanel issue.


If so, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Feb  4 05:21:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 20:21:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off confirmation?
In-Reply-To: <C0098070.6F46%dellsworth@mac.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006020320210104686eedb4b5@msapiro>

David Ellsworth wrote:

>My client wants to turn all confirmations off. Can this be
>done? They want to add addresses as they get approval in person (it's a
>political campaign) but without all the confirmation process. Is that
>possible? 


The list owner can directly add subscribers through the list admin
Membership Management...->Mass Subscription page without any
confirmation required (subscribe rather than invite).

It is also possible to add an open subscribe option (Privacy
options...->Subscription rules->subscribe_policy choice of None) which
allows anyone to subscribe anyone without confirmation. This option
has to be enabled on a site wide basis to appear on the page. It is
not recommended and probably not what your client wants anyway, but it
can be enabled by setting ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE = Yes in mm_cfg.py (See
Defaults.py for more info).

It sounds to me like the admin Mass Subscribe is what your client wants.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Feb  4 05:36:44 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 20:36:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HELP!
In-Reply-To: <008101c62940$6b5535b0$6401a8c0@main>
Message-ID: <PC174020060203203644092124b96505@msapiro>

Bob Bales wrote:
>
>I had the same problem with this list, and I changed 
>email addresses and that ended it, as far as receiving email. I emailed my 
>"HELP" email at 9:23 am,  it didn't show up on the list until 4:23PM.


I don't have your original post that I received from the list, but if
you have it, check for the presence of an X-Mailman-Approved-At:
header indicating it was approved by a moderator and when.

I have experienced no delays from this list lately, so if there
actually was a delay in the list's receiving your mail or your
receiving the post back, it is likely a delay occurring between MTAs
totally outside of Mailman.

>I changed addresses for the other list and didn't have any effect at all.

So what is actually happening with this other list. You receive no mail
from the list? You post to the list and no one receives your post and
it doesn't appear in the archive? Other people post and receive OK?
You say your address is subscribed. Is mail delivery enabled? You say
you changed addresses. From the user options page? Did you receive and
respond to the confirmation?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From reemajamil at yahoo.com  Sat Feb  4 08:31:42 2006
From: reemajamil at yahoo.com (reema jamil)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 23:31:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] about python
Message-ID: <20060204073142.69784.qmail@web51411.mail.yahoo.com>

hello,
   
  I want a detailed tutorial on python. Also want to know that does this language support pointers, enumeration, record ,union , abstract data types etc... 
  Thanks for your help.
   

			
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.

From cpz at tuunq.com  Sat Feb  4 08:42:44 2006
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 23:42:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] about python
In-Reply-To: <20060204073142.69784.qmail@web51411.mail.yahoo.com> from reema
	jamil at "Feb 3, 2006 11:31:42 pm"
Message-ID: <20060204074244.01D887AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, reema jamil wrote:
> hello,
>    
>   I want a detailed tutorial on python. Also want to know that does this language support pointers, enumeration, record ,union , abstract data types etc... 


You might try http://www.python.org/ and possibly 
http://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide.

z!


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Feb  4 10:56:37 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 10:56:37 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HELP!
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060203203644092124b96505@msapiro>
References: <PC174020060203203644092124b96505@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p062007a6c00a2987bb96@[10.0.1.210]>

At 8:36 PM -0800 2006-02-03, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  I have experienced no delays from this list lately, so if there
>  actually was a delay in the list's receiving your mail or your
>  receiving the post back, it is likely a delay occurring between MTAs
>  totally outside of Mailman.

	We have recently discovered that there are some ISPs in the world 
that are blocking large chunks of European IP address space, 
including (but not limited to) all the IP address space that belongs 
to XS4ALL.nl, the ISP in the Netherlands that provides hosting for 
all the python.org machines -- especially including the mail server.


	The ironic thing is that XS4ALL is probably one of the most 
pro-consumer/anti-spam ISPs in the world, and they are regularly 
involved in lobbying the European government to get various 
anti-consumer laws overturned or modified to be more appropriate. 
They've even been strong enough to hold up against the Scientologists 
in the US -- they provide hosting facilities for a well-known 
anti-Scientology website, which had been hounded out of existence at 
all previous facilities until it reached XS4ALL.

	I'm going to be setting up my own co-location servers, and XS4ALL 
is top of my list of sites that I will seriously consider for 
security purposes, possibly including other sites at Sealand, 
ServerVault (where a friend of mine used to work), and other highly 
secure facilities.


	Anyway, if you're having delays in getting e-mail to your site 
from this mailing list, one thing you want to check is to make sure 
that you're not blacklisting or firewalling IP addresses belonging to 
the network owned by XS4ALL.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From ruf at rawip.org  Sat Feb  4 12:19:12 2006
From: ruf at rawip.org (Lukas Ruf)
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 12:19:12 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange URL for archive access
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602031045050281b605b21e@msapiro>
References: <20060203172836.GB5967@tik.ee.ethz.ch>
	<PC1740200602031045050281b605b21e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060204111912.GA2648@tik.ee.ethz.ch>

Mark,

> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> [2006-02-03 20:21]:
>

thanks for answering.

> Lukas Ruf wrote:
> >
> >while clicking on listinfo -> 'listname' works, clicking on the
> >provided archive URL doesn't.  After searching the web without
> >success, I contact you.
> >
> >I setup a mailman on my server
> ><https://lists.lpr.ch/mailman/listinfo> to
>
> What archive URL doesn't work?
>

the archives of info (the only one where data is currently available).
Clicking on archives results (with me) in
<https://lists.lpr.ch/mailman/listinfopipermail/info/> instead of
<https://lists.lpr.ch/pipermail/info/>

> I just went to your listinfo overview page and from there to the
> listinfo pages for the info and muttprint lists and tried the
> archive link on each of those pages and it worked for me.
>

I tried it right now -- without success.

> BTW, I notice your PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL is 'http' and your
> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN is 'https'. Is this intentional?
>

that's intentional.

wbr,
Lukas
-- 
Lukas Ruf   <http://www.lpr.ch> | Ad Personam
rbacs      <http://wiki.lpr.ch> | Restaurants, Bars and Clubs
Raw IP   <http://www.rawip.org> | Low Level Network Programming
Style  <http://email.rawip.org> | How to write emails


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Feb  4 15:38:23 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 06:38:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange URL for archive access
In-Reply-To: <20060204111912.GA2648@tik.ee.ethz.ch>
Message-ID: <PC174020060204063823092152c039f0@msapiro>

Lukas Ruf wrote:
>
>the archives of info (the only one where data is currently available).
>Clicking on archives results (with me) in
><https://lists.lpr.ch/mailman/listinfopipermail/info/> instead of
><https://lists.lpr.ch/pipermail/info/>

I still don't see it. On what page (URL) do you see this link?

I go to <https://lists.lpr.ch/mailman/listinfo/info> and see the link
"To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the info
Archives." which links to <http://lists.lpr.ch/pipermail/info/>.

Perhaps you have an old page cached in your browser?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From david at midrange.com  Sat Feb  4 18:24:36 2006
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Sat, 04 Feb 2006 11:24:36 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] AOL to Implement E-mail Certification Program
In-Reply-To: <C0096951.151FE%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
References: <43E40721.2090807@midrange.com>
	<C0096951.151FE%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <ds2o0o$6gn$1@sea.gmane.org>

Larry Stone wrote:
> Nothing I do provides me any direct benefit so I'm sure as heck not paying
> for assured delivery. 

Stated like that (and I don't disagree in the slightest), AOL's new
program could be construed as extortion: "Pay us money, or your mail
won't be delivered."

david




From will at willspc.net  Sat Feb  4 18:08:04 2006
From: will at willspc.net (Will Nordmeyer)
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 12:08:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass Subscription Problem
Message-ID: <00d801c629ad$92afbeb0$6400a8c0@hundredacrewood.willspc.net>

I was having this problem with V2.1.5 and upgraded to V2.1.7 this AM and
still have this problem:

 

I created a new list and am trying to mass subscribe all the users from an
old list to this one.  I put the email addresses in (about 260 addresses)
and hit submit changes (direct subscribe instead of an invitation, turned
off welcome emails, no list administrator notification).  When I click
submit changes, I am put right back at the Mass Subscription page, and no
addresses have been subscribed.

 

Any suggestions?

 

--Will



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Feb  4 21:11:54 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 21:11:54 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass Subscription Problem
In-Reply-To: <00d801c629ad$92afbeb0$6400a8c0@hundredacrewood.willspc.net>
References: <00d801c629ad$92afbeb0$6400a8c0@hundredacrewood.willspc.net>
Message-ID: <p062007acc00abae4cdbc@[10.0.1.210]>

At 12:08 PM -0500 2006-02-04, Will Nordmeyer wrote:

>  I created a new list and am trying to mass subscribe all the users from an
>  old list to this one.  I put the email addresses in (about 260 addresses)
>  and hit submit changes (direct subscribe instead of an invitation, turned
>  off welcome emails, no list administrator notification).  When I click
>  submit changes, I am put right back at the Mass Subscription page, and no
>  addresses have been subscribed.

	I'm just guessing, but this sounds like the problem outlined in 
FAQ 4.45 or maybe 4.65.  See the Mailman FAQ Wizard for more info.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From thomaswaters at mac.com  Sat Feb  4 22:11:10 2006
From: thomaswaters at mac.com (Thomas Waters)
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 16:11:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] confused about how to use fix url
Message-ID: <24CEC1ED-C6AF-4F4F-8D11-916473E8F39B@mac.com>

I need some help understanding the use of fix url.  I see that I need  
to use it with withlist, but past that, I'm confused.

Upgraded the hardware for our server, and in trying to move  
everything to it my lists aren't working.  I can create a new list,  
and it works, but the migrated lists won't function.  In the web page  
UI, the links to the archives show the wrong URL.


I have read everything in the server (man and help) about withlist  
and fix url, and still confused.

Thx,


--
Thomas Waters
Director of Information and Communication Services
University of Pittsburgh School of Pharmacy
412-383-7471
waterstc at pitt.edu
http://www.pharmacy.pitt.edu




From rebjr at dbpromos.com  Sat Feb  4 22:44:30 2006
From: rebjr at dbpromos.com (Bob Bales)
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 15:44:30 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] TEST
References: <00d801c629ad$92afbeb0$6400a8c0@hundredacrewood.willspc.net>
	<p062007acc00abae4cdbc@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <004901c629d4$2e5bc6d0$6401a8c0@main>

TEST


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb  5 00:49:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 15:49:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] confused about how to use fix url
In-Reply-To: <24CEC1ED-C6AF-4F4F-8D11-916473E8F39B@mac.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006020415494304374bf36de0@msapiro>

Thomas Waters wrote:

>I need some help understanding the use of fix url.  I see that I need  
>to use it with withlist, but past that, I'm confused.
>
>Upgraded the hardware for our server, and in trying to move  
>everything to it my lists aren't working.  I can create a new list,  
>and it works, but the migrated lists won't function.  In the web page  
>UI, the links to the archives show the wrong URL.


If you have only DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST in your
configuration and no additional virtual hosts, you can give the
following command to process all your lists according to the default
settings which should be correct given that your new lists work.

bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url -- -v

This runs withlist and tells it to lock the lists (-l) process all
lists (-a) process by calling fix_url in the module fix_url.py with
arguments of the list instance and -v which causes fix_url to report
what it's doing. The -- is to separate the -v option for fix_url from
the withlist options since there's no listname to do that in this case.

If you have more than one virtual host, you have to process the lists
one at a time with

bin/withlist -l -r fix_url listname -u url_host

but you could wrap that in a shell script to run the command repeatedly
for all the listname/url_host pairs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sfeng at stanford.edu  Sun Feb  5 00:52:11 2006
From: sfeng at stanford.edu (Xueshan Feng)
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 15:52:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exchange and attachment
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200512151852120906fbaf47f6@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200512151852120906fbaf47f6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <19021691eda1a49387e5fa618c0b22ab@stanford.edu>


On Dec 15, 2005, at 6:52 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Susan Feng wrote:
>>
>> We are having similar problem with mailman 2.1.6 version. Exchange 
>> users
>> receive their email "body as attachment". Other email clients are 
>> fine.
>
> Do you have a msg_header and/or msg_footer defined for the list?
>
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp>

Hey Mark,

Sorry to take some time to get to this. It just so happened that our 
majordomo  converting script left a blank line in the footer by 
default, which caused the problem for exchange users.
Removing that line and turning off content filter fix the problem.

Thanks!

Susan

Shared Services, ITSS
Stanford University, CA 94305-3090

255 Panama St.
Room 157, Polya Hall
Stanford University
Stanford, CA 94305-4136




From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb  5 06:16:44 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 21:16:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers] Permission of
	data/bounce-events-?????.pck
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602011413250750edbcbe87@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602042116440046a9204c3a@msapiro>

imacat wrote:
>>
>>    I noted that in the source of mailman 2.1.7 there are 2 lines in
>>bin/mailmanctl:
>>
>>line 421-422
>>        # Clear our file mode creation umask
>>        os.umask(0)
>>
>>    Is this intended?  Is it the reason why data/bounce-events-?????.pck
>>are world-writable?

There doesn't appear to be a good reason. This has been changed for
Mailman 2.1.8 so that the 'default' umask will be 007 and also the
specific creation of the bounce-events queue file will have no
permission for 'other'.

The changes to bin/mailmanctl and Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py have
been committed to CVS and can be seen (soon) at
<http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/mailman/mailman/>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ruf at rawip.org  Sun Feb  5 16:54:41 2006
From: ruf at rawip.org (Lukas Ruf)
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 16:54:41 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange URL for archive access
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060204063823092152c039f0@msapiro>
References: <20060204111912.GA2648@tik.ee.ethz.ch>
	<PC174020060204063823092152c039f0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060205155440.GA30050@tik.ee.ethz.ch>

Dear Mark,

> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> [2006-02-04 15:39]:
>
> Perhaps you have an old page cached in your browser?
>

this might have been the case even though I configured Mozilla Firefox
to remove all data like cookies, cache etc. when closing the browser.

Today, it suddenly worked....  I have definitely no idea why it
suddenly started to work.

Anyway.  Thanks for your help and support!

wbr,
Lukas
-- 
Lukas Ruf   <http://www.lpr.ch> | Ad Personam
rbacs      <http://wiki.lpr.ch> | Restaurants, Bars and Clubs
Raw IP   <http://www.rawip.org> | Low Level Network Programming
Style  <http://email.rawip.org> | How to write emails


From root at home.mbg.it  Sun Feb  5 17:08:55 2006
From: root at home.mbg.it (root)
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 17:08:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MAIL FROM GioMBG > How to change fonts on pubblic
	page?
Message-ID: <200602051708.55712.root@home.mbg.it>

I All!
3 Questions
(If is wrong to post here this kind of question kindly redirect me by reply 
with the right place.

How to change fonts in pubblic page?

There are some special html template for mailman?

There are some tools to find some word match for mailman?
Respect
GioMBG
-- 
Gio "MBG" Canepa - E mail: server at home.mbg.it
Phone Fax +39 0541 985 737 Mobile +39 393 33 567 07
http://www.home.mbg.it | http://www.GioMBG.com
Snail mail P.O. Box 59 47854 Riccione (RN) Italy


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb  5 17:48:06 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 08:48:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange URL for archive access
In-Reply-To: <20060205155440.GA30050@tik.ee.ethz.ch>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602050848060828b5f64922@msapiro>

Lukas Ruf wrote:
>
>Today, it suddenly worked....  I have definitely no idea why it
>suddenly started to work.

I think you must have had an old page cached somewhere. If not in your
browser, then perhaps in a proxy server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ruf at rawip.org  Sun Feb  5 17:50:48 2006
From: ruf at rawip.org (Lukas Ruf)
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 17:50:48 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange URL for archive access
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602050848060828b5f64922@msapiro>
References: <20060205155440.GA30050@tik.ee.ethz.ch>
	<PC1740200602050848060828b5f64922@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060205165048.GC3755@tik.ee.ethz.ch>

Mark,

> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> [2006-02-05 17:48]:
>
> Lukas Ruf wrote:
> >
> >Today, it suddenly worked....  I have definitely no idea why it
> >suddenly started to work.
>
> I think you must have had an old page cached somewhere. If not in
> your browser, then perhaps in a proxy server.
>

that's what I believe too.  However, a proxy is not installed....
Anyway, it works now as expected.  Thanks!

wbr,
Lukas
-- 
Lukas Ruf   <http://www.lpr.ch> | Ad Personam
rbacs      <http://wiki.lpr.ch> | Restaurants, Bars and Clubs
Raw IP   <http://www.rawip.org> | Low Level Network Programming
Style  <http://email.rawip.org> | How to write emails


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb  5 18:02:21 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 09:02:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MAIL FROM GioMBG > How to change fonts on
	pubblicpage?
In-Reply-To: <200602051708.55712.root@home.mbg.it>
Message-ID: <PC17402006020509022103593072981c@msapiro>

wrote:
>
>How to change fonts in pubblic page?
>
>There are some special html template for mailman?


For both the above, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>.



>There are some tools to find some word match for mailman?


If you mean tools to search the archive of a list, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.011.htp>
and other FAQ articles.

If you mean searching the Mailman installation, I use grep.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dhc2 at dcrocker.net  Sun Feb  5 20:04:12 2006
From: dhc2 at dcrocker.net (Dave Crocker)
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 11:04:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Publishing participant posting statistics
Message-ID: <43E64C2C.2000205@dcrocker.net>

Howdy.

Apologies if this is already in the archive, but I have looked around and could 
not find it.

I would like to publish an "activity" report every month, to show who the most 
active participants are and how many messages they have posted (and what percent 
of the total this constitutes.)

Such reports can help an on-going group discussion.  It both shows whether there 
is much on-going interest and it shows whether anyone is dominating the 
discussion.  And it does this is a nicely non-confrontational way.

Is there a preferred way to do this with mailman?

Tnx.

d/
-- 

Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
<http://bbiw.net>


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb  5 21:57:18 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 12:57:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Publishing participant posting statistics
In-Reply-To: <43E64C2C.2000205@dcrocker.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602051257180375919571e9@msapiro>

Dave Crocker wrote:
>
>I would like to publish an "activity" report every month, to show who the most 
>active participants are and how many messages they have posted (and what percent 
>of the total this constitutes.)

I think the easiest way to do this is by analysis and summarization of
Mailman's 'post' log. If you rotate logs, you may need to alter the
rotation to be sure you have the whole month, but you could have a
cron script that would run on the first of the month and produce to
report for the previous month and mail it to a few people or even to
the list.

You could also do this using a list's
archives/private/listname/yyyy-Month.txt(.gz) as the data source.

One caveat if you use the post log. In Mailman prior to 2.1.7, for
certain list settings, the log entries show the sender as
listname-bounces at ... instead of the real sender. This is fixed in
2.1.7.

See Brad Knowles Mailman Daily Status Report (mmdsr) script in the
Mailman contrib/ directory (for 2.1.7 and up) or at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1123383&group_id=103&atid=300103>
for an example of a script that does log analysis and mails results.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From stefan.fuhrmann at no-panic-systems.de  Sun Feb  5 22:36:20 2006
From: stefan.fuhrmann at no-panic-systems.de (Stefan Fuhrmann)
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 22:36:20 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + apache2
Message-ID: <200602052236.30750.stefan.fuhrmann@no-panic-systems.de>

Hello all,

I setup a debian sarge with ispconfig and mailman.
When I point my browser to http://domain.tld/mailman/create then there is no 
page displayed. The download window pops up and I can download a "bin" - 
file.
I followed the instruction about apache2 from manual but this dont help. 
Maybe its a little think to do. I assume that I have to add something to 
DirectoryIndex. But what?
Or I'm wrong?

Can someone help?

tia

stefan

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From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb  5 23:07:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 14:07:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + apache2
In-Reply-To: <200602052236.30750.stefan.fuhrmann@no-panic-systems.de>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602051407330046e8b5808f@msapiro>

Stefan Fuhrmann wrote:
>
>I setup a debian sarge with ispconfig and mailman.
>When I point my browser to http://domain.tld/mailman/create then there is no
>page displayed. The download window pops up and I can download a "bin" -
>file.
>I followed the instruction about apache2 from manual but this dont help.
>Maybe its a little think to do. I assume that I have to add something to
>DirectoryIndex. But what?

Probably not.

What you are seeing is Apache is apparently delivering the contents of
the wrapper in Mailman's cgi-bin directory instead of executing it.

Are you loading the Apache cgi module? Do you have the appropriate

ScriptAlias /mailman/ path/to/mailman's/cgi-bin/

See <http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/howto/cgi.html>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Feb  6 00:10:54 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 00:10:54 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Publishing participant posting statistics
In-Reply-To: <43E64C2C.2000205@dcrocker.net>
References: <43E64C2C.2000205@dcrocker.net>
Message-ID: <p062007b4c00c35948f83@[10.0.1.210]>

At 11:04 AM -0800 2006-02-05, Dave Crocker wrote:

>  I would like to publish an "activity" report every month, to show who the
>  most active participants are and how many messages they have posted (and
>  what percent of the total this constitutes.)

	That's kind of the thing that my "mmdsr" script does, only my 
script works on a daily basis as opposed to monthly.  See 
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1123383&group_id=103&atid=300103> 
for a slightly older version of my script -- the latest version has 
been checked into CVS for inclusion in the contrib/ directory with 
the upcoming Mailman version 2.1.8, but I have not yet had a chance 
to upload the latest code direct to this page.

	Please feel free to ask me any questions you may have about this 
script, and note that it is released under a BSD-style license -- if 
you make any modifications, I'd love to hear about them although that 
is not a requirement.


	This question is also kind of related to FAQ 1.30, see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.030.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From stefan.fuhrmann at no-panic-systems.de  Mon Feb  6 01:45:16 2006
From: stefan.fuhrmann at no-panic-systems.de (Stefan Fuhrmann)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 01:45:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + apache2
In-Reply-To: <000001c62aa1$bb3f0ad0$0107a8c0@pp.local>
References: <000001c62aa1$bb3f0ad0$0107a8c0@pp.local>
Message-ID: <200602060145.29593.stefan.fuhrmann@no-panic-systems.de>

Am Sonntag, 5. Februar 2006 23:15 schrieben Sie:
> Stefan Fuhrmann wrote:
> >I setup a debian sarge with ispconfig and mailman.
> >When I point my browser to http://domain.tld/mailman/create then there is
> > no page displayed. The download window pops up and I can download a "bin"
> > - file.
> >I followed the instruction about apache2 from manual but this dont help.
> >Maybe its a little think to do. I assume that I have to add something to
> >DirectoryIndex. But what?
>
> Probably not.
>
> What you are seeing is Apache is apparently delivering the contents of
> the wrapper in Mailman's cgi-bin directory instead of executing it.
Yes , Okay.
>
> Are you loading the Apache cgi module? Do you have the appropriate

yes, its loaded!

> ScriptAlias /mailman/ path/to/mailman's/cgi-bin/

Note!!: Im using apache2 with "ispconfig" (hosting management software, 
http://ispconfig.org) which creates virtual hosts. 
CGI is enabled in ispconfig and the path is set correctly:
"ScriptAlias  /cgi-bin/ /var/www/web1/cgi-bin/"
The files within the cgi-bin are symlinked to there location: /usr/lib/cgi-bin

When I now browse to the URL it says me I dont have the rights to access and 
pop up the download window.

Is it a rights problem? What are the correct values?


tia

stefan





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From skrol29 at freesurf.fr  Mon Feb  6 01:32:03 2006
From: skrol29 at freesurf.fr (Skrol29)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 01:32:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] non human interface for manging users
Message-ID: <00e601c62ab5$1475a7e0$0201a8c0@QWERTY>

Hello,

I'm developping a web site for an association, and I wonder to know if they
are any remote MailMan  command which would enables me to manage user
subscribion automatically.
The Association's Web site has a securized interface for members. I'd like
users to be able to subscribe/unsubscibe to one or several mailing list from
this interface only. And also, I'd like to unsubscribe members automatically
when they didn't pay they contribution.
The mailMan server could possibly not be the same as the Web site.

I've found a chapter at the List Managers Documentation which is called 
"Using MailMan without the Web"
but it seems to not be written yet. Text is : "[This will be a short section 
explaining the non-web interface for MailMan in human terms.]"

Any info is welcome,
-------------------
Skrol29
www.skrol29.com
www.tinybutstrong.com
------------------- 



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb  6 02:15:24 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 17:15:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + apache2
In-Reply-To: <200602060145.29593.stefan.fuhrmann@no-panic-systems.de>
Message-ID: <PC174020060205171524026701d798a3@msapiro>

Stefan Fuhrmann wrote:
>
>> ScriptAlias /mailman/ path/to/mailman's/cgi-bin/
>
>Note!!: Im using apache2 with "ispconfig" (hosting management software,
>http://ispconfig.org) which creates virtual hosts.
>CGI is enabled in ispconfig and the path is set correctly:
>"ScriptAlias  /cgi-bin/ /var/www/web1/cgi-bin/"
>The files within the cgi-bin are symlinked to there location: /usr/lib/cgi-bin
>
>When I now browse to the URL it says me I dont have the rights to access and
>pop up the download window.
>
>Is it a rights problem? What are the correct values?

Maybe you should take this to an ispconfig list.

How are you configuring Apache to understand that a URL like
<http://www.example.com/mailman/listinfo> for example is supposed to
execute the Cgi program whose (default configuration) location is
/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo? The normal way this is done is
with

ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb  6 02:30:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2006 17:30:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] non human interface for manging users
In-Reply-To: <00e601c62ab5$1475a7e0$0201a8c0@QWERTY>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602051730100423233aa451@msapiro>

Skrol29 wrote:
>
>I'm developping a web site for an association, and I wonder to know if they
>are any remote MailMan  command which would enables me to manage user
>subscribion automatically.
>The Association's Web site has a securized interface for members. I'd like
>users to be able to subscribe/unsubscibe to one or several mailing list from
>this interface only. And also, I'd like to unsubscribe members automatically
>when they didn't pay they contribution.


There are command line scripts in Mailman's bin/ directory such as
add_members and remove_members that can be run from your own CGIs. You
can also develop your own html (or wget command) that posts to the web
admin Mass Subscription and Mass Removal functions. This latter
approach could work with the web site and mailman on different
machines.

You could also collect data in a file to be processed periodically
through add_members and remove_members by a cron.

There are more detailed discussions of these approaches in the archives
of this list.

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
article 1.18

and

>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Feb  6 06:54:35 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 14:54:35 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] non human interface for manging users
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602051730100423233aa451@msapiro> (Mark Sapiro's
	message of "Sun, 5 Feb 2006 17:30:10 -0800")
References: <PC1740200602051730100423233aa451@msapiro>
Message-ID: <87mzh5m3qc.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Mark" == Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> writes:

    >> I'm developping a web site for an association, and I wonder to
    >> know if they are any remote MailMan command which would enables
    >> me to manage user subscribion automatically.

    >> The Association's Web site has a securized interface for
    >> members. I'd like users to be able to subscribe/unsubscibe to
    >> one or several mailing list from this interface only. And also,
    >> I'd like to unsubscribe members automatically when they didn't
    >> pay they contribution.

    Mark> There are command line scripts in Mailman's bin/ directory
    Mark> such as add_members and remove_members that can be run from
    Mark> your own CGIs.

You might also want to search the documentation and the archives of
this list and the mailman-developers list for information on the
MemberAdapter interface, which provides some facilities to interface
to a separate membership database.

The MemberAdapter provided by Mailman 2.1 is evidently not very
successful (I haven't tried it myself, but "surely there's a better
way than MemberAdapter?" is a FAQ), but you may be able to make it
serve your purposes.  Better integration of 3rd-party databases is
planned for Mailman 3, but Mailman 3 is presently only a
proof-of-concept implementation, and there is no schedule for delivery
of a public release yet.

AFAIK Mailman 2.2 is not expected to get major improvements in this
area, but Tokio Kikuchi the authoritative source on that (IIRC); if a
brief look at Mailman 2.1 MemberAdapter seems unsatisfactory, you
could ask (on this list would be best, I think) about Mailman 2.2.

-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Feb  6 09:07:42 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 09:07:42 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] non human interface for manging users
In-Reply-To: <87mzh5m3qc.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <PC1740200602051730100423233aa451@msapiro>
	<87mzh5m3qc.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p062007b5c00cb41535c1@[10.0.1.210]>

At 2:54 PM +0900 2006-02-06, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>  AFAIK Mailman 2.2 is not expected to get major improvements in this
>  area, but Tokio Kikuchi the authoritative source on that (IIRC); if a
>  brief look at Mailman 2.1 MemberAdapter seems unsatisfactory, you
>  could ask (on this list would be best, I think) about Mailman 2.2.

	Questions about using MemberAdapter would definitely belong on 
this list.  If someone wanted to talk about contributions they'd like 
to make to the code, that would belong on mailman-developers.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From jjloose at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Feb  6 12:10:55 2006
From: jjloose at yahoo.co.uk (Jon Loose)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 11:10:55 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Servers
Message-ID: <20060206111055.32650.qmail@web25713.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

I am sure I should be able to sort this one out via
the documentation/threads, but am struggling to do so,
so some help would be appreciated!

I have successfully set up mailman 2.1.6 on my redhat
server, but now wish to use further domain names.  I
would like the domain names to be treated as
separately as possible, but reading through the docs,
it seems that I cannot have the same list name on
separate domains.  This is not an issue, so fine.

I have set up a virtual mail domain for a second
domain, and am able to successfully send/receive email
via this domain.

I have then changed the "preferred domain" for one of
my lists (via web interface) to this second domain. 
I'm sure there is more to do, but unsure exactly what:

The question is, what do I need to do next in
postfix/mailman to make the two work together?  

1 - Do I need to edit /etc/postfix/virtual?
2 - What changes do I need to make to mailman?
3 - Do I need to make any changes to httpd.conf or
other apache config files? (note that I can access the
mailman admin interface via domain1/mailman/admin and
also domain2/mailman/admin, but at present the list of
email lists only shows up via domain1/mailman/admin)

My setup is pretty much "standard", so just a bit of
handholding should get me through if anyone is able to
spell it out for me.

Thanks in advance,
Jon


		
___________________________________________________________ 
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com


From xabier at alsernet.es  Mon Feb  6 11:41:21 2006
From: xabier at alsernet.es (Xabier =?iso-8859-1?q?Guiti=E1n?=)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 11:41:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails don't reach some subscribers
Message-ID: <200602061141.22423.xabier@alsernet.es>

How we can check that a message was sent to the entire list if some of the 
members didn't received that mail? Is the sending process controlled by the 
MTA or directly by mailman? Is there any log where i can check every mail 
sended by mailman like the "mail.log" from the MTA?
I'm using Postfix as my MTA.
Thanks.
-- 
Xabier Guiti?n 
xabier at alsernet.es
Alsernet 2000 S.L.
http://www.alsernet.es
Tlf: 902 187 187 - Fax: 902 187 188


From atann at gmx.net  Mon Feb  6 15:07:21 2006
From: atann at gmx.net (Andre Tann)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 15:07:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails don't reach some subscribers
In-Reply-To: <200602061141.22423.xabier@alsernet.es>
References: <200602061141.22423.xabier@alsernet.es>
Message-ID: <200602061507.21749@inter.netz>

Xabier Guiti?n, Montag, 6. Februar 2006 11:41: 

> How we can check that a message was sent to the entire list if
> some of the members didn't received that mail? Is the sending
> process controlled by the MTA or directly by mailman? Is there
> any log where i can check every mail sended by mailman like the
> "mail.log" from the MTA?

What does /var/log/mail say? Looking at that log, did MM send the 
Mail to these users, or didn't it?

Did you check that your users are subscribed, don't receive digests, 
and didn't set mail delivery on hold?

-- 
Andre Tann



From clovis at agr.unicamp.br  Mon Feb  6 16:43:09 2006
From: clovis at agr.unicamp.br (Clovis Tristao)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 13:43:09 -0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman log error
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060203172727028123f66234@msapiro>
References: <PC174020060203172727028123f66234@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43E76E8D.8060204@agr.unicamp.br>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Cl?vis Trist?o wrote:
>   
>> How to see the unknown users in Mailman? It is generate any log about
>> users unknown?
>> I saw in the /var/log/maillog, but is very difficult identify, many
>> information.
>>     
>
> Go to the list admin Bounce processing page for the list and be sure
> bounce_processing is set to Yes. Then, depending the frequency of
> posts to your list and how agressive you want to be about removing
> bouncing members, set the other options according to their
> descriptions.
>
> Then all bounces will be logged in the 'bounce' log. and members will
> be automatically disabled and removed according to your settings.
>
>   
Hi Mr. Mark Sapiro,

I discovered that mailman is not removing the user of the list when 
returns bounce, sees the example below:

Feb  6 13:33:26 myshost postfix/smtpd[28902]: 988FDC3D799: reject: RCPT 
from localhost.localdomain[127.0.0.1]: 550 <username at domain.com.br>: 
Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table; 
from=<linstname-bounces at domain.com.br> to=<username at domain.com.br> 
proto=ESMTP helo=<domain.com.br>

./list_members listname | grep -i <username>
<username>@domain.com.br

The user not exist in my system domain..

What it can be happening?
Tkanks a lot,
Cl?vis

-- 
Clovis Tristao - UNICAMP/Faculdade de Engenharia Agricola
Administrador de Redes - Secao de Informatica (SINFO)
E-mail: mailto:clovis at agr.unicamp.br http://www.agr.unicamp.br
Fone(0xx19) 37881031-37881038 ou FAX(55xx19) 37881005/37881010



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb  6 17:11:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 08:11:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman log error
In-Reply-To: <43E76E8D.8060204@agr.unicamp.br>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602060811100328e63e4652@msapiro>

Clovis Tristao wrote:
>
>I discovered that mailman is not removing the user of the list when
>returns bounce, sees the example below:


If Bounce processing for the list is on, default bounce settings will
disable delivery to a member only after bounces occur on 5 different
days with no more than 7 days between any two bounces. Then after
disable, 3 warning notices are sent at 7 day intervals, and then the
member is removed from the list.

If you want a member to be removed on the first bounce, go to the
Bounce processing page for the list and set the following:

bounce_processing: Yes
bounce_score_threshold: 0.9
bounce_info_stale_after: doesn't matter in this case
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings: 0
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval: doesn't matter in this case

Also, set the notifications to Yes, so you will see what's happening.

You can always look in Mailman's 'bounce' log to see if bounces are
being recorded.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From rtara at maine.rr.com  Mon Feb  6 16:41:06 2006
From: rtara at maine.rr.com (rtara)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 10:41:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unauthorized mailings
Message-ID: <C00CD842.16F62%rtara@maine.rr.com>

There have been mailings through my mailman account that are not authorized
- in fact, I have cancelled my extra services from my server Time Warner and
no longer have the capability of sending mailman messages.

People are receiving messages with attachments and a short message.

Can you help?


Best regards,

Robin

Tara Design, Inc.
www.taratangoshoes.com
Toll Free in US: 1-877-906-8272

18 Stillman St.
So. Portland ME 04106
207-741-2992-- 





From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb  6 17:17:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 08:17:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails don't reach some subscribers
In-Reply-To: <200602061141.22423.xabier@alsernet.es>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602060817430171e63e45d6@msapiro>

Xabier Guiti?n wrote:

>How we can check that a message was sent to the entire list if some of the
>members didn't received that mail? Is the sending process controlled by the
>MTA or directly by mailman? Is there any log where i can check every mail
>sended by mailman like the "mail.log" from the MTA?

Mailman has two logs, 'smtp' and 'smtp-failure' which will tell you
(smtp) that the post was delivered to the MTA and how many recipients
there were, but not their addresses, and (smtp-failure) if there were
any errors in delivery to the MTA.

If you have automated bounce processing enabled for the list, Mailman's
'bounce' log will tell you which addresses bounced.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From clovis at agr.unicamp.br  Mon Feb  6 17:23:23 2006
From: clovis at agr.unicamp.br (Clovis Tristao)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 14:23:23 -0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman log error
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602060811100328e63e4652@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200602060811100328e63e4652@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43E777FB.3010402@agr.unicamp.br>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> If you want a member to be removed on the first bounce, go to the
> Bounce processing page for the list and set the following:
>
> bounce_processing: Yes
> bounce_score_threshold: 0.9
> bounce_info_stale_after: doesn't matter in this case
> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings: 0
> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval: doesn't matter in this case
>
> Also, set the notifications to Yes, so you will see what's happening.
>
> You can always look in Mailman's 'bounce' log to see if bounces are
> being recorded.
>   
Hey Mark,

Configured as its suggestion.
But because the system does not send email for the members of the list 
that are registered correctly?
[]s
Cl?vis

-- 
Clovis Tristao - UNICAMP/Faculdade de Engenharia Agricola
Administrador de Redes - Secao de Informatica (SINFO)
E-mail: mailto:clovis at agr.unicamp.br http://www.agr.unicamp.br
Fone(0xx19) 37881031-37881038 ou FAX(55xx19) 37881005/37881010



From clovis at agr.unicamp.br  Mon Feb  6 17:43:51 2006
From: clovis at agr.unicamp.br (Clovis Tristao)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 14:43:51 -0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman log error
In-Reply-To: <43E777FB.3010402@agr.unicamp.br>
References: <PC1740200602060811100328e63e4652@msapiro>
	<43E777FB.3010402@agr.unicamp.br>
Message-ID: <43E77CC7.2080503@agr.unicamp.br>

Clovis Tristao wrote:
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>   
>> If you want a member to be removed on the first bounce, go to the
>> Bounce processing page for the list and set the following:
>>
>> bounce_processing: Yes
>> bounce_score_threshold: 0.9
>> bounce_info_stale_after: doesn't matter in this case
>> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings: 0
>> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval: doesn't matter in this case
>>
>> Also, set the notifications to Yes, so you will see what's happening.
>>
>> You can always look in Mailman's 'bounce' log to see if bounces are
>> being recorded.
>>   
>>     
> Hey Mark,
>
> Configured as its suggestion.
> But because the system does not send email for the members of the list 
> that are registered correctly?
> []s
> Cl?vis
>
>   
Hi,

When send mail to the list appears the following error:

/var/log/mailman/post:
Feb 06 14:28:42 2006 (22383) post to listname-l from user at domain.com.br, 
size=347714, message-id=<43E77A68.6030702 at domain.com.br>, 350 failures

In this list I possess 365 users. I do not know what to make, already I 
restarted the service some times, without success. Some tip?

In Defaults.py:
DEFAULT_BOUNCE_PROCESSING = Yes
REGISTER_BOUNCES_EVERY = minutes(15)
DEFAULT_BOUNCE_SCORE_THRESHOLD = 5.0
DEFAULT_BOUNCE_INFO_STALE_AFTER = days(7)
DEFAULT_BOUNCE_YOU_ARE_DISABLED_WARNINGS = 3
DEFAULT_BOUNCE_YOU_ARE_DISABLED_WARNINGS_INTERVAL = days(7)
DEFAULT_BOUNCE_UNRECOGNIZED_GOES_TO_LIST_OWNER = Yes
DEFAULT_BOUNCE_NOTIFY_OWNER_ON_DISABLE = Yes
DEFAULT_BOUNCE_NOTIFY_OWNER_ON_REMOVAL = Yes

Cl?vis

-- 
Clovis Tristao - UNICAMP/Faculdade de Engenharia Agricola
Administrador de Redes - Secao de Informatica (SINFO)
E-mail: mailto:clovis at agr.unicamp.br http://www.agr.unicamp.br
Fone(0xx19) 37881031-37881038 ou FAX(55xx19) 37881005/37881010



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb  6 17:48:48 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 08:48:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Servers
In-Reply-To: <20060206111055.32650.qmail@web25713.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006020608484806093010ec51@msapiro>

Jon Loose wrote:
>
>I have successfully set up mailman 2.1.6 on my redhat
>server, but now wish to use further domain names.  I
>would like the domain names to be treated as
>separately as possible, but reading through the docs,
>it seems that I cannot have the same list name on
>separate domains.  This is not an issue, so fine.
>
>I have set up a virtual mail domain for a second
>domain, and am able to successfully send/receive email
>via this domain.
>
>I have then changed the "preferred domain" for one of
>my lists (via web interface) to this second domain. 
>I'm sure there is more to do, but unsure exactly what:


You probably need to run fix_url for the list, but that's not the first
step. See below.


>The question is, what do I need to do next in
>postfix/mailman to make the two work together?  
>
>1 - Do I need to edit /etc/postfix/virtual?


I'm not really familiar with Postfix, but see
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html> and the
other material in that section of the manual.


>2 - What changes do I need to make to mailman?


In mm_cfg.py you need to set/add the following (see Defaults.py for
documentation)

MTA = Postfix
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS
add_virtualhost('url_hostname', 'email_hostname')

If the Defaults.py settings

POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postalias'
POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postmap'

aren't correct, override them in mm_cfg.py


>3 - Do I need to make any changes to httpd.conf or
>other apache config files? (note that I can access the
>mailman admin interface via domain1/mailman/admin and
>also domain2/mailman/admin, but at present the list of
>email lists only shows up via domain1/mailman/admin)


Perhaps you are OK as is with apache then. If you put the
add_virtualhost() in mm_cfg.py and run fix_url to set the domain2 list
to 'domain2', that list should 'move to' the domain2 listinfo and
admin overview pages.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.062.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb  6 17:54:11 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 08:54:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman log error
In-Reply-To: <43E77CC7.2080503@agr.unicamp.br>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602060854110625e5dc9a9c@msapiro>

Clovis Tristao wrote:
>
>When send mail to the list appears the following error:
>
>/var/log/mailman/post:
>Feb 06 14:28:42 2006 (22383) post to listname-l from user at domain.com.br,
>size=3D347714, message-id=3D<43E77A68.6030702 at domain.com.br>, 350 failures
>
>In this list I possess 365 users. I do not know what to make, already I 
>restarted the service some times, without success. Some tip?

It looks like the entire SMTP transaction is failing. Look in
/var/log/mailman/smtp and /var/log/mailman/smtp-failure for more
information about this. (Whenever you see 'failures' in the post log,
there should be more detail in the smtp-failure log.)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb  6 17:57:12 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 08:57:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman log error
In-Reply-To: <43E77CC7.2080503@agr.unicamp.br>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602060857120046e5dc985a@msapiro>

Clovis Tristao wrote:
>
>In Defaults.py:
>DEFAULT_BOUNCE_PROCESSING = Yes
>REGISTER_BOUNCES_EVERY = minutes(15)
>DEFAULT_BOUNCE_SCORE_THRESHOLD = 5.0
>DEFAULT_BOUNCE_INFO_STALE_AFTER = days(7)
>DEFAULT_BOUNCE_YOU_ARE_DISABLED_WARNINGS = 3
>DEFAULT_BOUNCE_YOU_ARE_DISABLED_WARNINGS_INTERVAL = days(7)
>DEFAULT_BOUNCE_UNRECOGNIZED_GOES_TO_LIST_OWNER = Yes
>DEFAULT_BOUNCE_NOTIFY_OWNER_ON_DISABLE = Yes
>DEFAULT_BOUNCE_NOTIFY_OWNER_ON_REMOVAL = Yes

These are only defaults for a new list. The actual settings for any
list can be seen/set on the list admin Bounce processing web page for
that list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From xabier at alsernet.es  Mon Feb  6 18:01:34 2006
From: xabier at alsernet.es (Xabier =?iso-8859-1?q?Guiti=E1n?=)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 18:01:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails don't reach some subscribers
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602060817430171e63e45d6@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200602060817430171e63e45d6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200602061801.35292.xabier@alsernet.es>

Hi!

I've checked every log and find what i was looking for, the logs tells us the 
message-id I want to look after, it divides in different MTA IDs, i'm 
supposing that MM sorts them somehow. With that I can search across the logs 
looking for the specific "list member" i wanted to track. That's what i were 
looking for. I wonder if there is any tool that could do this for you :P 
Thanks for your help.
-- 
Xabier Guiti?n 
xabier at alsernet.es
Alsernet 2000 S.L.
http://www.alsernet.es
Tlf: 902 187 187 - Fax: 902 187 188


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb  6 18:07:55 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 09:07:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unauthorized mailings
In-Reply-To: <C00CD842.16F62%rtara@maine.rr.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060206090755039021d462dd@msapiro>

rtara (Robin) wrote:

>There have been mailings through my mailman account that are not authorized
>- in fact, I have cancelled my extra services from my server Time Warner and
>no longer have the capability of sending mailman messages.


Presumably someone is posting to the list by spoofing you as the sender
of the post (i.e., faking the message to meke it look as though it
comes from you).

Are you the list owner? If so, you can set your subscription to
moderated so posts 'from' you have to be approved. If not, you can ask
the list owner to do it.

You can unsubscribe the spoofed address and subscribe with a different
address or a 'variant' of the spoofed address.

You or someone with some expertise can examine the Received: and other
headers in these posts and possibly determine the IP address of
origin, but some of these may be spoofed as well, and it is usually
not possible to determine the actual sender in any case without
cooperation from the originating ISP which may not be obtainable
without court order.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb  6 18:14:51 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 09:14:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails don't reach some subscribers
In-Reply-To: <200602061801.35292.xabier@alsernet.es>
Message-ID: <PC174020060206091451081287b9f0ff@msapiro>

Xabier Guiti?n wrote:
>
>I've checked every log and find what i was looking for, the logs tells us the
>message-id I want to look after, it divides in different MTA IDs, i'm
>supposing that MM sorts them somehow. With that I can search across the logs
>looking for the specific "list member" i wanted to track. That's what i were
>looking for. I wonder if there is any tool that could do this for you :P

There's no tool (other than grep and your fingers :-) that I'm aware
of. Let us know if you find one or make one.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From clovis at agr.unicamp.br  Mon Feb  6 18:16:37 2006
From: clovis at agr.unicamp.br (Clovis Tristao)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 15:16:37 -0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman log error
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602060854110625e5dc9a9c@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200602060854110625e5dc9a9c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43E78475.9040705@agr.unicamp.br>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Clovis Tristao wrote:
>   
>> When send mail to the list appears the following error:
>>
>> /var/log/mailman/post:
>> Feb 06 14:28:42 2006 (22383) post to listname-l from user at domain.com.br,
>> size=3D347714, message-id=3D<43E77A68.6030702 at domain.com.br>, 350 failures
>>
>> In this list I possess 365 users. I do not know what to make, already I 
>> restarted the service some times, without success. Some tip?
>>     
>
> It looks like the entire SMTP transaction is failing. Look in
> /var/log/mailman/smtp and /var/log/mailman/smtp-failure for more
> information about this. (Whenever you see 'failures' in the post log,
> there should be more detail in the smtp-failure log.)
>
>   
/var/log/mailman/smtp
Feb 06 14:28:42 2006 (22383) <43E77A68.6030702 at domain.com.br> smtp for 
350 recips, completed in 34.526 seconds

/var/log/mailman/smtp-failure
Feb 06 14:28:42 2006 (22383) Low level smtp error: Server not connected, 
msgid: <43E77A68.6030702 at domain.com.br>
Feb 06 14:28:42 2006 (22383) delivery to user at domain.com.br failed with 
code -1: Server not connected

Any idea?

-- 
Clovis Tristao - UNICAMP/Faculdade de Engenharia Agricola
Administrador de Redes - Secao de Informatica (SINFO)
E-mail: mailto:clovis at agr.unicamp.br http://www.agr.unicamp.br
Fone(0xx19) 37881031-37881038 ou FAX(55xx19) 37881005/37881010



From lists at nabble.com  Mon Feb  6 18:17:14 2006
From: lists at nabble.com (RobertHJ (sent by Nabble.com))
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 09:17:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Members only umbrella lists
Message-ID: <2785397.post@talk.nabble.com>


Is there a way to configure settings so that one sub-list will accept mails posted to the umbrella list by a member a different sub-list?

Want the whole thing to be members only to cut-out spam and also would ideally like to have sender's emal shown in the posts.

E.g. 

Sub-listA: memberA1, memberA2
Sub-listB: memberB1, memberB2
UmbrellaList: Sub-ListA, Sub-ListB

Although UmbrellaList is a recognised alias in both sub lists, if memberA1 posts to UmbrellaList the post is held for moderator approval by Sub-ListB because sender is a non-member!

Is there a way around this though the settings in the Administrative Interface?

Mailman v 2.1.6 provided by Web Hoster





--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Members-only-umbrella-lists-t1070607.html#a2785397
Sent from the Mailman - Users forum at Nabble.com.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Feb  6 18:10:26 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 18:10:26 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails don't reach some subscribers
In-Reply-To: <200602061801.35292.xabier@alsernet.es>
References: <PC1740200602060817430171e63e45d6@msapiro>
	<200602061801.35292.xabier@alsernet.es>
Message-ID: <p062007b9c00d333300fe@[10.0.1.210]>

At 6:01 PM +0100 2006-02-06, Xabier Guiti?n wrote:

>  I've checked every log and find what i was looking for, the logs tells us the
>  message-id I want to look after, it divides in different MTA IDs, i'm
>  supposing that MM sorts them somehow.

	Once the message has passed from Mailman to the MTA, there is 
nothing more that Mailman can do -- everything is in the hands of the 
MTA.

>                                         With that I can search across the logs
>  looking for the specific "list member" i wanted to track. That's what i were
>  looking for. I wonder if there is any tool that could do this for you :P

	Not any Mailman-related tools, no.  You should check with the 
author or company supporting your MTA to see if they have any such 
tools.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Feb  6 18:35:10 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 18:35:10 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman log error
In-Reply-To: <43E78475.9040705@agr.unicamp.br>
References: <PC1740200602060854110625e5dc9a9c@msapiro>
	<43E78475.9040705@agr.unicamp.br>
Message-ID: <p062007bbc00d39396a62@[10.0.1.210]>

At 3:16 PM -0200 2006-02-06, Clovis Tristao wrote:

>  /var/log/mailman/smtp-failure
>  Feb 06 14:28:42 2006 (22383) Low level smtp error: Server not connected,
>  msgid: <43E77A68.6030702 at domain.com.br>
>  Feb 06 14:28:42 2006 (22383) delivery to user at domain.com.br failed with
>  code -1: Server not connected

	Sounds like your MTA is not running.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb  6 18:49:15 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 09:49:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Members only umbrella lists
In-Reply-To: <2785397.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602060949150187cdfa5dea@msapiro>

RobertHJ wrote:
>
>Sub-listA: memberA1, memberA2
>Sub-listB: memberB1, memberB2
>UmbrellaList: Sub-ListA, Sub-ListB
>
>Although UmbrellaList is a recognised alias in both sub lists, if memberA1 posts to UmbrellaList the post is held for moderator approval by Sub-ListB because sender is a non-member!
>
>Is there a way around this though the settings in the Administrative Interface?


No, I don't think so, other than making the umbrella list anonymous
which you don't want to do.

You can try subscribing umbrellalist-bounces at ... to the sub lists with
delivery disabled and password reminders off. This may work. Let us
know. (It depends in some ways on the settings of USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER
and SENDER_HEADERS in mm_cfg.py, but I *think* it should work with the
defaults.)


>Mailman v 2.1.6 provided by Web Hoster


Bummer. There is a patch
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103>
that would allow you to put '@Sub-listA' in accept_these_nonmembers of
Sub-listB and vice versa. This would do what you want, but you'd have
to convince the host to install the patch.

This is on the list as a feature for Mailman 2.2.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From chris.a.adams at state.or.us  Mon Feb  6 19:38:56 2006
From: chris.a.adams at state.or.us (Christopher Adams)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 10:38:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set mailman default for nonmember_rejection_notice
Message-ID: <43E797C0.3080201@state.or.us>

I am trying to set the default message (for new lists) for non-member 
posts that are rejected. In mm_cfg.py, I have tried:

NONMEMBER_REJECTION_NOTICE= "Blah blah blah blah"

That doesn't work.

I understand that Python can use single, double, or triple quotes. None 
of these work.


-- 


Christopher Adams



From sythos at sythos.net  Mon Feb  6 19:23:27 2006
From: sythos at sythos.net (Sythos)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 19:23:27 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] per list VERP
Message-ID: <20060206192327.7f2a0c4c.sythos@sythos.net>

There is a way to enable VERP only for some list and not globally?

-- 
Sythos - http://www.sythos.net

  ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
  /\                        - against M$ attachments

Beccati questo strato di astrazione che ti nasconde la differenza tra
umani e demoni "e piu` non dimandare" (Inferno III).
	-- Nando Santagata


From orrpatrick at yahoo.com  Mon Feb  6 19:39:33 2006
From: orrpatrick at yahoo.com (Patrick Orr)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 10:39:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes not being saved
Message-ID: <20060206183933.83623.qmail@web52402.mail.yahoo.com>

I've switched to mailman from qmail and none of the changes I submit are saved.
 
 Does anyone have any ideas on what the problem could be?
 
		
---------------------------------
Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb  6 19:49:02 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 10:49:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set mailman default for
	nonmember_rejection_notice
In-Reply-To: <43E797C0.3080201@state.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602061049020937b35331cb@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:

>I am trying to set the default message (for new lists) for non-member 
>posts that are rejected. In mm_cfg.py, I have tried:
>
>NONMEMBER_REJECTION_NOTICE= "Blah blah blah blah"
>
>That doesn't work.
>
>I understand that Python can use single, double, or triple quotes. None 
>of these work.

The problem is not in the syntax of your assignment, The problem is the
default nonmember_rejection_notice for new lists is the null string
(which in turn causes the default notice coded into
Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py to be used) and there is no provision for
setting a different default in mm_cfg.py.

In general, the only things that can be meaningfully set in mm_cfg.py
are those things which are defined in Defaults.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Feb  6 19:55:53 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 19:55:53 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] per list VERP
In-Reply-To: <20060206192327.7f2a0c4c.sythos@sythos.net>
References: <20060206192327.7f2a0c4c.sythos@sythos.net>
Message-ID: <p062007c2c00d4bf8cf1a@[10.0.1.210]>

At 7:23 PM +0100 2006-02-06, Sythos wrote:

>  There is a way to enable VERP only for some list and not globally?

	Not unless you want to modify the source code.  If you create a 
patch, please upload it to the SourceForge web site.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb  6 20:16:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 11:16:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changes not being saved
In-Reply-To: <20060206183933.83623.qmail@web52402.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602061116540203cdfa5e21@msapiro>

Patrick Orr wrote:

>I've switched to mailman from qmail and none of the changes I submit are saved.


Huh? 

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Articles 1.22, 1.23 and 4.45.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From marlowe at pghmail.com  Mon Feb  6 20:06:35 2006
From: marlowe at pghmail.com (Marlowe McClasky)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 11:06:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails With Attachments
Message-ID: <01d901c62b50$73ef04a0$7491d140@yourxb2x7j77gn>

Hello All --

Thanks in advance for your suggestions and advice.

We are unable to send an email with an attached file.  Can it be done?  We receive the following error message:
----------
Your mail to 'NAPHAstaff' with the subject

    Test - Please Ignore

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

    Message body is too big: 199200 bytes with a limit of 40 KB

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.  If you would like to cancel
this posting, please visit the following URL:
    http://napha.org/mailman/confirm/naphastaff_napha.org/b7f39d43b11e01add9b6a9ebf5843825089d8562

--------

Again, thank you for your comments --



 Outgoing mail is Virus Scanned byNorman Data Defense.        Inbound Spam reduced 98.2% byVircom Sieve.        

From ldb at freestandards.org  Mon Feb  6 20:26:24 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 14:26:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not a list member notification email
Message-ID: <43E7A2E0.2070009@freestandards.org>

I am having trouble figuring why when a message from a non-member sent to my 
lists does not immediately bounce back to the sender saying, "You are not a member".

Also, I have a lot of held messages in qfiles/*/* and data/*. How can I manually 
process those?

Thanks,

LDB


From cpz at tuunq.com  Mon Feb  6 20:31:48 2006
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 11:31:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails With Attachments
In-Reply-To: <01d901c62b50$73ef04a0$7491d140@yourxb2x7j77gn> from Marlowe
	McClasky at "Feb 6, 2006 11:06:35 am"
Message-ID: <20060206193148.7DC887AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Marlowe McClasky wrote:

> We are unable to send an email with an attached file.  Can it be done?  

Make the attachment smaller than 40k. (Or better, put the file on a web
site and send the URL.)

> We receive the following error message:
> ----------
> Your mail to 'NAPHAstaff' with the subject
> 
>     Test - Please Ignore
> 
> Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.
> 
> The reason it is being held:
> 
>     Message body is too big: 199200 bytes with a limit of 40 KB
> 
> Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
> notification of the moderator's decision.  If you would like to cancel
> this posting, please visit the following URL:
>     http://napha.org/mailman/confirm/naphastaff_napha.org/b7f39d43b11e01add9b6a9ebf5843825089d8562
> 
> --------

z!


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb  6 20:37:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 11:37:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails With Attachments
In-Reply-To: <01d901c62b50$73ef04a0$7491d140@yourxb2x7j77gn>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602061137080390a529182e@msapiro>

Marlowe McClasky wrote:
>
>We are unable to send an email with an attached file.  Can it be done?  We receive the following error message:
>----------
>Your mail to 'NAPHAstaff' with the subject
>
>    Test - Please Ignore
>
>Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.
>
>The reason it is being held:
>
>    Message body is too big: 199200 bytes with a limit of 40 KB
<snip>

If you are the list owner or moderator, you can approve the message,
however depending on the list's Content Filtering settings, the
attachment may be removed.

If you are the list owner, you can raise max_message_size from its
current value of 40 to anything you like.

If you are not the list owner, you need to communicate with her/him
about this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb  6 21:06:22 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 12:06:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not a list member notification email
In-Reply-To: <43E7A2E0.2070009@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006020612062206565af4c7a6@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:

>I am having trouble figuring why when a message from a non-member sent to my 
>lists does not immediately bounce back to the sender saying, "You are not a member".


If that's what you want, you need to set Privacy options...->Sender
filters->generic_nonmember_action) to Reject.


>Also, I have a lot of held messages in qfiles/*/* and data/*. How can I manually 
>process those?


The data/heldmsg-<list_name>-*.pck files are messages for list_name
that are waiting moderator approval. Go to the list's admindb page and
accept/reject/discard them as appropriate.

In which qfiles/ directory do you find messages. Other than messages
currently in process, there should only be messages in qfiles/shunt/
and maybe qfiles/retry/. If there are old messages in other queues,
not all your qrunners are running.

Messages in the retry queue are failed deliveries that will be
periodically retried until DELIVERY_RETRY_PERIOD (default 5 days)
elapses. if there are messages older than that, RetryRunner isn't
running.

Messages in the shunt queue were placed there because of some error
which will have been logged in the 'error' log. They can be
reprocessed with bin/unshunt, but if the underlying error hasn't been
addressed, they will just be shunted again.

Also bin/dumpdb and bin/show_qfiles are useful for looking at these
files.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ldb at freestandards.org  Mon Feb  6 21:23:12 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 15:23:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not a list member notification email
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006020612062206565af4c7a6@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006020612062206565af4c7a6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43E7B030.6080107@freestandards.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
> 
>> I am having trouble figuring why when a message from a non-member sent to my 
>> lists does not immediately bounce back to the sender saying, "You are not a member".
> 
> 
> If that's what you want, you need to set Privacy options...->Sender
> filters->generic_nonmember_action) to Reject.
> 
	Does not work? I was hoping there was something I was missing but apparently 
not. I do not receive the reject messag until about 4 or 6 hours later. Which is 
what led into the below question.....

> 
>> Also, I have a lot of held messages in qfiles/*/* and data/*. How can I manually 
>> process those?
> 
> 
> The data/heldmsg-<list_name>-*.pck files are messages for list_name
> that are waiting moderator approval. Go to the list's admindb page and
> accept/reject/discard them as appropriate.
> 
> In which qfiles/ directory do you find messages. Other than messages
> currently in process, there should only be messages in qfiles/shunt/
> and maybe qfiles/retry/. If there are old messages in other queues,
> not all your qrunners are running.
> 
> Messages in the retry queue are failed deliveries that will be
> periodically retried until DELIVERY_RETRY_PERIOD (default 5 days)
> elapses. if there are messages older than that, RetryRunner isn't
> running.
> 
> Messages in the shunt queue were placed there because of some error
> which will have been logged in the 'error' log. They can be
> reprocessed with bin/unshunt, but if the underlying error hasn't been
> addressed, they will just be shunted again.
> 
> Also bin/dumpdb and bin/show_qfiles are useful for looking at these
> files.
> 



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb  6 21:55:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 12:55:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not a list member notification email
In-Reply-To: <43E7B030.6080107@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC174020060206125528054625eba4be@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>> 
>> If that's what you want, you need to set Privacy options...->Sender
>> filters->generic_nonmember_action) to Reject.
>> 
>	Does not work? I was hoping there was something I was missing but apparently 
>not. I do not receive the reject messag until about 4 or 6 hours later. Which is 
>what led into the below question.....


So it actually does work, but you have a problem with delayed
deliveries. This is probably not a Mailman issue per se, but looking
into the qfiles/ entries may indicate a Mailman problem.

Otherwise, this may be a Mailman/MTA integration issue or it may be
strictly in the outgoing MTA or beyond.

Does your outgoing mail go through your ISP and if so, does the ISP
limit outgoing mail somehow? Note that this can be the case even if
you have your own outgoing MTA. Some ISPs intercept ALL port 25
connects and route them through their own server.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From marlowe at pghmail.com  Mon Feb  6 22:16:58 2006
From: marlowe at pghmail.com (Marlowe McClasky)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 13:16:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Password
Message-ID: <054101c62b62$ab4c6de0$7491d140@yourxb2x7j77gn>

Hello --

Recently our web master took off without leaving any passwords behind (what a mess!).  In any case, I am trying to learn mailman, and just realized that I have no idea what our list administrator password is.  I've tried all kinds of things, none works.  How do I find out or change it?

Thanks again in advance,
Marlowe Futrell

National Amusement Park Historical Association
www.napha.org

 Outgoing mail is Virus Scanned byNorman Data Defense.        Inbound Spam reduced 98.2% byVircom Sieve.        

From rme at grc.nasa.gov  Mon Feb  6 22:33:24 2006
From: rme at grc.nasa.gov (Matt Emerson)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 16:33:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issues with replaced characters/newlines
	inmailmanlists
In-Reply-To: <43E3D4C5.6050704@anc.net>
References: <PC1740200602021656130109629f2a5a@msapiro>
	<43E3D4C5.6050704@anc.net>
Message-ID: <2F44ACEC-AF42-4F2D-B35A-B10CAF8EE655@grc.nasa.gov>


On Feb 3, 2006, at 5:10 PM, Matt Zorzin wrote:

> This is an exact copy and paste of an affected subject, with info
> obfuscated but of an identical length to the original information:
>
> Subject: [Suspect List XX] 1111111111-111111: Subject of emails  
> coming from
> 	mailing lists with "?" between words
>
> Our mail clients all run through AVG Enterprise antivirus.
>
> One interesting note is that it seems that many posts from this very
> list (mailman-users) are exhibiting the same symptoms; i'm getting the
> nonprintable characters in Mozilla, and a 'view source' shows a  
> newline
> in the subject.
>

We ran into a similar issue here.  It turned out that some virus- 
scanning MTA was incorrectly handling the folding of long headers.   
(Where "long" was greater than about 70 characters or so.)

You can try isolating the problem by connecting (via telnet) to the  
SMTP port of the various MTAs in the delivery path, and manually  
typing in messages with long header lines.

In our case:

A long test header:

Reply-to: "A very long real name.   
0123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789"  
<0123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789@ 
0123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789.0 
123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789>

After passing through the virus scanning system:

Reply-To: "A very long real name.   
01234567890123456789012345678901234567890  
12345678901234567890123456789"  
<0123456789012345678901234567890123456789012.345678901234567890123456789 
@01234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456.78901234567890123456789 
. 
012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890.1234567890123456789>

Note the insertion of an extra space in the "real name" portion of  
the address, and the insertion of extra dots in the address portion.

Perhaps something similar is happening at your site.

-- 
Matt Emerson
rme at grc.nasa.gov




From ler at lerctr.org  Mon Feb  6 22:38:40 2006
From: ler at lerctr.org (Larry Rosenman)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 15:38:40 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Password
In-Reply-To: <054101c62b62$ab4c6de0$7491d140@yourxb2x7j77gn>
Message-ID: <01c601c62b65$b25d2d60$0a0a0a0a@aus.pervasive.com>

Marlowe McClasky wrote:
> Hello --
> 
> Recently our web master took off without leaving any passwords behind
> (what a mess!).  In any case, I am trying to learn mailman, and just
> realized that I have no idea what our list administrator password is.
> I've tried all kinds of things, none works.  How do I find out or
> change it?    
> 
> Thanks again in advance,
> Marlowe Futrell
> 
Assuming you have shell access to the mailman userid, you want to look at
the mmsitepass program.

# /usr/local/mailman/bin/mmsitepass --help
Set the site password, prompting from the terminal.

The site password can be used in most if not all places that the list
administrator's password can be used, which in turn can be used in most
places
that a list users password can be used.

Usage: /usr/local/mailman/bin/mmsitepass [options] [password]

Options:

    -c/--listcreator
        Set the list creator password instead of the site password.  The
list
        creator is authorized to create and remove lists, but does not have
        the total power of the site administrator.

    -h/--help
        Print this help message and exit.

If password is not given on the command line, it will be prompted for.

#


-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 512-248-2683                 E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
US Mail: 430 Valona Loop, Round Rock, TX 78681-3893



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb  6 22:46:22 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 13:46:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Password
In-Reply-To: <054101c62b62$ab4c6de0$7491d140@yourxb2x7j77gn>
Message-ID: <PC17402006020613462200620c6273d4@msapiro>

Marlowe McClasky wrote:
>
>Recently our web master took off without leaving any passwords behind (what a mess!).  In any case, I am trying to learn mailman, and just realized that I have no idea what our list administrator password is.  I've tried all kinds of things, none works.  How do I find out or change it?

If this is your own Mailman installation, use bin/mmsitepass to set a
new site password and then use the site password to access the list
admin interface and set new list passwords.

If this is an externally hosted Mailman, you'll need to get the host to
set new list passwords for you.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jjloose at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Feb  6 22:47:48 2006
From: jjloose at yahoo.co.uk (Jon Loose)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 21:47:48 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Servers
Message-ID: <20060206214753.30630.qmail@web25715.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Many thanks for your help, which has precipitated
progress.  I am now able to see the appropriate lists
when accessing the system via the appropriate domain. 
Thus www.domain1.org/mailman/admin leads to the
domain1 lists, and www.domain2.org/mailman/admin leads
to the domain2 lists.  All to the good.

However, I now find that sending a message to the list
on domain2 leads to copies being sent out to a local
user, but not to any users outside my network.  This
looks like an MTA issue, and so I'm sure I should have
fixed things slightly differently in postfix.  Further
comments below:

>>The question is, what do I need to do next in
>>postfix/mailman to make the two work together?
>>
>>1 - Do I need to edit /etc/postfix/virtual?
> 
> 
> I'm not really familiar with Postfix, but see
>
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html>
and the
> other material in that section of the manual.

The trouble is, this is the documentation I don't
understand!  Can anyone help?  Specifically, having
set up domain2 as a virtual domain in postfix, what do
I need to do to allow mailman to use this?  I suspect
the /etc/postfix/virtual will need editing (do aliases
need moving from /etc/aliases for this?) but am not
sure.

> 
> 
>>2 - What changes do I need to make to mailman?
> 
> 
> In mm_cfg.py you need to set/add the following (see
Defaults.py for
> documentation)
> 
> MTA = Postfix
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS
> add_virtualhost('url_hostname', 'email_hostname')
> 
> If the Defaults.py settings
> 
> POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postalias'
> POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postmap'
> 
> aren't correct, override them in mm_cfg.py
> 
Got it... FYI, the "MTA=Postfix" threw up an error,
but all went well without this line.

> 
>>3 - Do I need to make any changes to httpd.conf or
>>other apache config files? (note that I can access
the
>>mailman admin interface via domain1/mailman/admin
and
>>also domain2/mailman/admin, but at present the list
of
>>email lists only shows up via domain1/mailman/admin)
> 
> 
> Perhaps you are OK as is with apache then. If you
put the
> add_virtualhost() in mm_cfg.py and run fix_url to
set the domain2 list
> to 'domain2', that list should 'move to' the domain2
listinfo and
> admin overview pages.

Thanks,

Jon


		
___________________________________________________________ 
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com


From jnguyen at ncmir.ucsd.edu  Mon Feb  6 22:50:24 2006
From: jnguyen at ncmir.ucsd.edu (Jana Nguyen)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 13:50:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] majordomo mailinglist migration to mailman
Message-ID: <43E7C4A0.2070203@ncmir.ucsd.edu>

Hi there,

I need to migrate mailing list from majordomo to mailman.  I didn't see 
any instructions to do this, what
are the steps?

If I copy the mailing list from majordomo to mailman at the following 
location:
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/

This does not work.

Any feedback would be much appreciated.

Thank you.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb  6 23:10:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 14:10:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Servers
In-Reply-To: <20060206214753.30630.qmail@web25715.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060206141054012575bdd0f3@msapiro>

Jon Loose wrote:
>
>However, I now find that sending a message to the list
>on domain2 leads to copies being sent out to a local
>user, but not to any users outside my network.  This
>looks like an MTA issue, and so I'm sure I should have
>fixed things slightly differently in postfix.  Further
>comments below:


This sounds like Postfix thinks that domain2 is not local and it is
refusing to relay from domain2 to the outside.


>> I'm not really familiar with Postfix, but see
>>
><http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html>
>and the
>> other material in that section of the manual.
>
>The trouble is, this is the documentation I don't
>understand!  Can anyone help?  Specifically, having
>set up domain2 as a virtual domain in postfix, what do
>I need to do to allow mailman to use this?  I suspect
>the /etc/postfix/virtual will need editing (do aliases
>need moving from /etc/aliases for this?) but am not
>sure.


This has to do primarily with setting up Postfix so that incoming mail
to the various list and list-* addresses at domain1 and domain2 are
all properly delivered to Mailman.

I don't think anything special needs to be done to accommodate outgoing
mail from Mailman as long as both domain1 and domain2 can send mail at
all.


>> MTA = Postfix
<snip>
>> 
>Got it... FYI, the "MTA=Postfix" threw up an error,
>but all went well without this line.


My fault. It needs to be

MTA = 'Postfix'

So that bin/genaliases and list creation and deletion can automatically
update the Mailman aliases and virtual maps files for Postfix.


Mailman creates/updates the data/aliases and data/virtual-mailman files
and the postalias and postmap commands update the corresponding .db
files.

The aliases and virtual-mailman files are referenced in the Postfix
configuration in alias_maps and virtual_alias_maps as shown in the
manual.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb  6 23:22:15 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 14:22:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] majordomo mailinglist migration to mailman
In-Reply-To: <43E7C4A0.2070203@ncmir.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402006020614221502812b897fc8@msapiro>

Jana Nguyen wrote:
>
>I need to migrate mailing list from majordomo to mailman.  I didn't see 
>any instructions to do this, what
>are the steps?


There is an old perl script, majordomo2mailman.pl, in the contrib
directory in the Mailman distribution that may or may not be helpful.


>If I copy the mailing list from majordomo to mailman at the following 
>location:
>/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/


You need somehow to export the majordomo archive as a mbox format file
(a flat file with raw messages separated by lines that begin "From "
with email address and date), and then use Mailman's bin/arch tool to
build the archive from the mbox.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ldb at freestandards.org  Mon Feb  6 23:32:41 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 17:32:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not a list member notification email
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060206125528054625eba4be@msapiro>
References: <PC174020060206125528054625eba4be@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43E7CE89.9010508@freestandards.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>>> If that's what you want, you need to set Privacy options...->Sender
>>> filters->generic_nonmember_action) to Reject.
>>>
>> 	Does not work? I was hoping there was something I was missing but apparently 
>> not. I do not receive the reject messag until about 4 or 6 hours later. Which is 
>> what led into the below question.....
> 
> 
> So it actually does work, but you have a problem with delayed
> deliveries. This is probably not a Mailman issue per se, but looking
> into the qfiles/ entries may indicate a Mailman problem.
> 
> Otherwise, this may be a Mailman/MTA integration issue or it may be
> strictly in the outgoing MTA or beyond.
> 
> Does your outgoing mail go through your ISP and if so, does the ISP
> limit outgoing mail somehow? Note that this can be the case even if
> you have your own outgoing MTA. Some ISPs intercept ALL port 25
> connects and route them through their own server.
> 

Thank you Mark... I have full control of the MTA and I am using PostFix.

I should tell you that ...

	1) I do not have bounce processing enabled within Mailman
	
	2) The mailing lists have been migrated from older versions mailman
	and have been cleaned up.
	
	3) When typing, mailq, on the server, it does not list the corresponding
	held messages. These are message Mailman has in its qfiles that PostFix
	does not know about.



Thanks ..

LDB


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb  6 23:48:52 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 14:48:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not a list member notification email
In-Reply-To: <43E7CE89.9010508@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006020614485206097a453df5@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>	
>	3) When typing, mailq, on the server, it does not list the corresponding
>	held messages. These are message Mailman has in its qfiles that PostFix
>	does not know about.


In which qfiles? If it is qfiles/retry/*, then the message has been
queued for retry because the original MTA delivery attempt resulted in
a transient error. The reason is logged in Mailman's smtp-failure log.

If it is some other queue, that that queue's runner is not doing its
job. Have you set QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME in mm_cfg.py to some large value?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From cpz at tuunq.com  Mon Feb  6 23:57:27 2006
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 14:57:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not a list member notification email
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006020614485206097a453df5@msapiro> from Mark Sapiro at
	"Feb 6, 2006 02:48:52 pm"
Message-ID: <20060206225727.C4E0C7AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
> >	
> >	3) When typing, mailq, on the server, it does not list the corresponding
> >	held messages. These are message Mailman has in its qfiles that PostFix
> >	does not know about.

> In which qfiles? If it is qfiles/retry/*, then the message has been
> queued for retry because the original MTA delivery attempt resulted in
> a transient error. The reason is logged in Mailman's smtp-failure log.

The command 'mailq' usually lists -sendmail-'s queue. Postfix uses the
postqueue command, and AFAIK mailman doesn't have a command at all.

z!


From stefan.fuhrmann at no-panic-systems.de  Tue Feb  7 02:09:15 2006
From: stefan.fuhrmann at no-panic-systems.de (Stefan Fuhrmann)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 02:09:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + apache2
In-Reply-To: <000201c62aba$e5eb8920$0107a8c0@pp.local>
References: <000201c62aba$e5eb8920$0107a8c0@pp.local>
Message-ID: <200602070209.23016.stefan.fuhrmann@no-panic-systems.de>


>
> How are you configuring Apache to understand that a URL like
> <http://www.example.com/mailman/listinfo> for example is supposed to
> execute the Cgi program whose (default configuration) location is
> /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo? The normal way this is done is
> with
>
> ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/

I set in Vhosts_ispconfig.conf (where the virutual hosts are created)
"ScriptAlias /mailman/ /var/www/web1/cgi-bin/"

When I browse now to the URL:
http://domain.tld/cgi-bin/mailman/create

then I get:

" Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of 
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the 
webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. "

So, what is wrong?

Stefan
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From jjloose at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Feb  7 02:29:24 2006
From: jjloose at yahoo.co.uk (Jon Loose)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 01:29:24 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Servers
Message-ID: <20060207012924.74985.qmail@web25709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Thanks for the correction... "MTA='Postfix'" works
just fine.

However, no change in mailing behaviour after making
this change and
restarting mailman/postfix.  I still can't get
messages out beyond the
local network.

Note that up to this point, I have put the aliases for
mailman lists in
/etc/aliases and have only created lists via
command-line interface. 
Also, I observe that there are no data/aliases or
data/virtual-mailman
files.  Do I need to create these?

Thanks,

Jon

Mark Sapiro said:
> Jon Loose wrote:
>>
>>However, I now find that sending a message to the
list
>>on domain2 leads to copies being sent out to a local
>>user, but not to any users outside my network.  This
>>looks like an MTA issue, and so I'm sure I should
have
>>fixed things slightly differently in postfix. 
Further
>>comments below:
>
>
> This sounds like Postfix thinks that domain2 is not
local and it is
> refusing to relay from domain2 to the outside.
>
>
>>> I'm not really familiar with Postfix, but see
>>>
>><http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html>
>>and the
>>> other material in that section of the manual.
>>
>>The trouble is, this is the documentation I don't
>>understand!  Can anyone help?  Specifically, having
>>set up domain2 as a virtual domain in postfix, what
do
>>I need to do to allow mailman to use this?  I
suspect
>>the /etc/postfix/virtual will need editing (do
aliases
>>need moving from /etc/aliases for this?) but am not
>>sure.
>
>
> This has to do primarily with setting up Postfix so
that incoming mail
> to the various list and list-* addresses at domain1
and domain2 are
> all properly delivered to Mailman.
>
> I don't think anything special needs to be done to
accommodate outgoing
> mail from Mailman as long as both domain1 and
domain2 can send mail at
> all.
>
>
>>> MTA = Postfix
> <snip>
>>>
>>Got it... FYI, the "MTA=Postfix" threw up an error,
>>but all went well without this line.
>
>
> My fault. It needs to be
>
> MTA = 'Postfix'
>
> So that bin/genaliases and list creation and
deletion can automatically
> update the Mailman aliases and virtual maps files
for Postfix.
>
>
> Mailman creates/updates the data/aliases and
data/virtual-mailman files
> and the postalias and postmap commands update the
corresponding .db
> files.
>
> The aliases and virtual-mailman files are referenced
in the Postfix
> configuration in alias_maps and virtual_alias_maps
as shown in the
> manual.
>


		
___________________________________________________________ 
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb  7 02:39:14 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 17:39:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + apache2
In-Reply-To: <200602070209.23016.stefan.fuhrmann@no-panic-systems.de>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602061739140109701cee9b@msapiro>

Stefan Fuhrmann wrote:
>
>When I browse now to the URL:
>http://domain.tld/cgi-bin/mailman/create
>
>then I get:
>
>" Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5
>
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
>Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
>traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the
>webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. "
>
>So, what is wrong?


Find the above error in Mailman's error log and if it is not self
explanitory, post the complete error and traceback here and we'll help
you decipher it.

BTW, I'm not sure why you have the 'cgi-bin/' in the above URL,
Normally, if the ScriptAlias says '/mailman/' the URL uould just be
<http://domain.tld/mailman/create>


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jjloose at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Feb  7 02:44:23 2006
From: jjloose at yahoo.co.uk (Jon Loose)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 01:44:23 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Servers - Correction
Message-ID: <20060207014423.78274.qmail@web25712.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Brief correction to my previous message... I do now
have data/aliases, though not data/virtual-mailman.

Hope this helps,

Thanks,

Jon


		
___________________________________________________________ 
NEW Yahoo! Cars - sell your car and browse thousands of new and used cars online! http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb  7 02:58:12 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 17:58:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Servers
In-Reply-To: <3800.84.43.72.187.1139275602.squirrel@www.loosehome.info>
Message-ID: <PC174020060206175812054625e89eae@msapiro>

Jon Loose wrote:

>Thanks for the correction... "MTA='Postfix'" works just fine.
>
>However, no change in mailing behaviour after making this change and
>restarting mailman/postfix.  I still can't get messages out beyond the
>local network.


As I said before, I think this is strictly Postfix, not Mailman or
Mailman-Postfix integration. I think Postfix is not relaying mail from
domain2 to the outside world. I don't know enough Postfix to suggest
what might need to be done to correct this.


>Note that up to this point, I have put the aliases for mailman lists in
>/etc/aliases and have only created lists via command-line interface. 
>Also, I observe that there are no data/aliases or data/virtual-mailman
>files.  Do I need to create these?

Since you haven't had MTA = 'Postfix', you've been using the default
MTA = 'Manual' which just tells you what the aliases are and asks you
to manually install them.

If you now run bin/genaliases, it should create the data/aliases and
data/virtual-mailman files containing data for all your lists, and run
the postalias and postmap commands to create the .db files.

Then you can update your Postfix config to use these files and not have
to do the aliases manually in the future.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tmz at pobox.com  Tue Feb  7 03:32:44 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 21:32:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not a list member notification email
In-Reply-To: <20060206225727.C4E0C7AE@mail.tuunq.com>
References: <PC17402006020614485206097a453df5@msapiro>
	<20060206225727.C4E0C7AE@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <20060207023244.GC2847@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Carl Zwanzig wrote:
> The command 'mailq' usually lists -sendmail-'s queue. Postfix uses
> the postqueue command, and AFAIK mailman doesn't have a command at
> all.

Postfix is very sendmail compatible and it does install a mailq
command - at least on the installations I have done over the years.

Mailman has bin/show_qfiles to 'Show the contents of one or more
Mailman queue files.'

- -- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
Learning is something students do, NOT something done to students
    -- Alfie Kohn

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From ldb at freestandards.org  Tue Feb  7 03:52:23 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 21:52:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not a list member notification email
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006020614485206097a453df5@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006020614485206097a453df5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43E80B67.3060609@freestandards.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>> 	
>> 	3) When typing, mailq, on the server, it does not list the corresponding
>> 	held messages. These are message Mailman has in its qfiles that PostFix
>> 	does not know about.
> 
> 
> In which qfiles? If it is qfiles/retry/*, then the message has been
> queued for retry because the original MTA delivery attempt resulted in
> a transient error. The reason is logged in Mailman's smtp-failure log.
> 
> If it is some other queue, that that queue's runner is not doing its
> job. Have you set QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME in mm_cfg.py to some large value?
> 

No, that has been modified.


LDB


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb  7 05:19:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 20:19:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not a list member notification email
In-Reply-To: <43E80B67.3060609@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006020620194100467a453bb7@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>>> 	
>>> 	These are message Mailman has in its qfiles that PostFix
>>> 	does not know about.
>> 
>> 
>> In which qfiles? If it is qfiles/retry/*, then the message has been
>> queued for retry because the original MTA delivery attempt resulted in
>> a transient error. The reason is logged in Mailman's smtp-failure log.
>> 
>> If it is some other queue, that that queue's runner is not doing its
>> job. Have you set QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME in mm_cfg.py to some large value?
>> 
>
>No, that has been modified.


So let's see if I get the situation. A nonmember send a post to a list.
A reject message is generated and is queued within Mailman and takes
several hours to be delivered, meanwhile it sits in some queue in
mailman. Is that correct?

In which queue do you find it?

Are there any relevant messages in any of Mailman's logs, particularly
'locks', 'qrunner', 'error' and 'smtp-failure'?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ldb at freestandards.org  Tue Feb  7 06:55:56 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 00:55:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602021126440218aa632f26@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200602021126440218aa632f26@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43E8366C.3040404@freestandards.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Lawrence Bowie 
>> I have not tried the above but it is asking for confirmation because the posts 
>> are from legitimate automatic engines that send email. The list does not know 
>> how to distinguish between SPAM and a legitimate automatic post.
>>
>> Any ideas on resolving this dilemma?
> 
> 
> Posts which are held because of being from a non-member are only held
> based on the calculated 'sender' of the message which in turn is based
> on only a few message headers which all looked OK in your sample
> message.
> 
> I can understand your reluctance to patch the code, but at least look
> in the 'vette' log and see what the entry there reports as the sender
> of the held post.
> 

In the vette log, I am seeing these messages from the automatic posts ...


Feb 06 06:13:14 2006 (17698) mail-list post from daemon at mydomain.com held, 
message-id=<E1F6771-0005Yn-00 at servername.mydomain.com>: Message has implicit 
destination


From ldb at freestandards.org  Tue Feb  7 07:10:38 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 01:10:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not a list member notification email
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006020620194100467a453bb7@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006020620194100467a453bb7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43E839DE.7050909@freestandards.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>>>> 	
>>>> 	These are message Mailman has in its qfiles that PostFix
>>>> 	does not know about.
>>>
>>> In which qfiles? If it is qfiles/retry/*, then the message has been
>>> queued for retry because the original MTA delivery attempt resulted in
>>> a transient error. The reason is logged in Mailman's smtp-failure log.
>>>
>>> If it is some other queue, that that queue's runner is not doing its
>>> job. Have you set QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME in mm_cfg.py to some large value?
>>>
>> No, that has been modified.
> 
> 
> So let's see if I get the situation. A nonmember send a post to a list.
> A reject message is generated and is queued within Mailman and takes
> several hours to be delivered, meanwhile it sits in some queue in
> mailman. Is that correct?
> 
Yes, that is correct.

> In which queue do you find it?
> 

the out queue

> Are there any relevant messages in any of Mailman's logs, particularly
> 'locks', 'qrunner', 'error' and 'smtp-failure'?
> 


Nothing good in qrunner, locks or error. smtp-failure has legitimate failures of 
domain not found or rejected remote delivery (due to non-existent recipient)



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb  7 07:14:59 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 22:14:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <43E8366C.3040404@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006020622145905159f8836be@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>
>In the vette log, I am seeing these messages from the automatic posts ...
>
>
>Feb 06 06:13:14 2006 (17698) mail-list post from daemon at mydomain.com held, 
>message-id=<E1F6771-0005Yn-00 at servername.mydomain.com>: Message has implicit 
>destination

So the post is held because the list posting address is not in a To: or
Cc: header of the post, not because daemon at mydomain.com is not a
member. If you want these posts to go to the list without being held
for moderator approval, here are your choices.

1)Arrange for the automated sender to put the list posting address in a
To: or Cc: header in the message, or

2)go to the list's Privacy options...->Recipient filters page and
either set require_explicit_destination to No or add the actual To:
address of the message or a regular expression that matches it to
acceptable_aliases.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb  7 07:34:04 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2006 22:34:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not a list member notification email
In-Reply-To: <43E839DE.7050909@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006020622340405785553e526@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> In which queue do you find it?
>> 
>
>the out queue
>
>> Are there any relevant messages in any of Mailman's logs, particularly
>> 'locks', 'qrunner', 'error' and 'smtp-failure'?
>> 
>
>
>Nothing good in qrunner, locks or error. smtp-failure has legitimate failures of 
>domain not found or rejected remote delivery (due to non-existent recipient)


So are there multiple messages in the out queue? Is there a backlog?
Does the 'smtp' log indicate that processing is going as fast as it
can, i.e. for sequential entries in the 'smtp' log is the time between
the time stamp of one entry and that of the next roughly equal to the
processing time in the first entry? And, do these times seem long.

See the 'performance' related FAQ entries. These may be out of date
(6.6 in particular), but 4.11 and 6.4 may be useful.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ldb at freestandards.org  Tue Feb  7 07:44:09 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 01:44:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not a list member notification email
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006020622340405785553e526@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006020622340405785553e526@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43E841B9.8030008@freestandards.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>> In which queue do you find it?
>>>
>> the out queue
>>
>>> Are there any relevant messages in any of Mailman's logs, particularly
>>> 'locks', 'qrunner', 'error' and 'smtp-failure'?
>>>
>>
>> Nothing good in qrunner, locks or error. smtp-failure has legitimate failures of 
>> domain not found or rejected remote delivery (due to non-existent recipient)
> 
> 
> So are there multiple messages in the out queue? Is there a backlog?
> Does the 'smtp' log indicate that processing is going as fast as it
> can, i.e. for sequential entries in the 'smtp' log is the time between
> the time stamp of one entry and that of the next roughly equal to the
> processing time in the first entry? And, do these times seem long.
> 
> See the 'performance' related FAQ entries. These may be out of date
> (6.6 in particular), but 4.11 and 6.4 may be useful.
> 

Here is a recent post to a test list and it NEVER hit my mail server as reject. 
It never even hit the postfix mailq.

--===============0209451863==--====================> 
qfiles/out/1139292738.257997+63ebc154352008cb297bd321d3651ab6f813ff18.pck
Subject: test is
From: test-list-owner at lists.mydomain.org
To: ldb at otherdomain.org
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0562359899=="
Message-ID: <mailman.2.1139292738.8997.test-list at lists.mydomain.org>
Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 22:12:18 -0800
Precedence: bulk
X-BeenThere: test-list at lists.mydomain.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
List-Id: test-list.lists.mydomain.org
X-List-Administrivia: yes

--===============0562359899==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has
been automatically rejected.  If you think that your messages are
being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at
test-list-owner at lists.mydomain.org.


--===============0562359899==
Content-Type: message/rfc822
MIME-Version: 1.0

Return-Path: <ldb at otherdomain.org>
X-Original-To: test-list at lists.mydomain.org
Delivered-To: test-list at lists.mydomain.org
Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])
         by lists.mydomain.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7692A678114
         for <fsg-test-list at lists.mydomain.org>;
         Mon,  6 Feb 2006 22:12:17 -0800 (PST)
Received: from lists.mydomain.org ([127.0.0.1])
         by localhost (lists.mydomain.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new,
         port 10024)
         with ESMTP id 09593-02 for <fsg-test-list at lists.mydomain.org>;
         Mon, 6 Feb 2006 22:12:17 -0800 (PST)
Received: by lists.mydomain.org (Postfix, from userid 1005)
         id 4FD33678118; Mon,  6 Feb 2006 22:12:17 -0800 (PST)
Received: from master.otherdomain.org (v757223.fromhere.com [xxx.xxx.xx.xxx])
         (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))
         (No client certificate requested)
         by lists.mydomain.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD97A678114
         for <test-list at lists.mydomain.org>;
         Mon,  6 Feb 2006 22:12:15 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])
         by master.otherdomain.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD3BF46890D
         for <test-list at lists.mydomain.org>;
         Tue,  7 Feb 2006 00:12:14 -0600 (CST)
Received: from master.otherdomain.org ([127.0.0.1])
         by localhost (master.ldb-jab.org [209.135.157.157]) (amavisd-new,
         port 10024)
         with ESMTP id 18443-08 for <test-list at lists.mydomain.org>;
         Tue,  7 Feb 2006 00:12:13 -0600 (CST)
Received: by master.otherdomain.org (Postfix, from userid 51)
         id 978E0469253; Tue,  7 Feb 2006 00:12:13 -0600 (CST)
Received: from [10.3.3.7] (pool-70-105-21-105.rich.east.verizon.net
         [70.105.21.105])
         (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))
         (No client certificate requested)
         by master.otherdomain.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0467946890D
         for <test-list at lists.mydomain.org>;
         Tue,  7 Feb 2006 00:12:11 -0600 (CST)
Message-ID: <43E83A73.6060707 at ldb-jab.org>
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 01:13:07 -0500
From: LDB <ldb at otherdomain.org>
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (X11/20050715)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: test-list at lists.mydomain.org
Subject: test is
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ldb-jab.org
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on
         lists.mydomain.org
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SPF_HELO_PASS,
         SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.0.3
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at
         lists.mydomain.org

sd

--===============0562359899==--


From ldb at freestandards.org  Tue Feb  7 07:46:16 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 01:46:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not a list member notification email
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006020622340405785553e526@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006020622340405785553e526@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43E84238.1030400@freestandards.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>> In which queue do you find it?
>>>
>> the out queue
>>
>>> Are there any relevant messages in any of Mailman's logs, particularly
>>> 'locks', 'qrunner', 'error' and 'smtp-failure'?
>>>
>>
>> Nothing good in qrunner, locks or error. smtp-failure has legitimate failures of 
>> domain not found or rejected remote delivery (due to non-existent recipient)
> 
> 
> So are there multiple messages in the out queue? Is there a backlog?
> Does the 'smtp' log indicate that processing is going as fast as it
> can, i.e. for sequential entries in the 'smtp' log is the time between
> the time stamp of one entry and that of the next roughly equal to the
> processing time in the first entry? And, do these times seem long.
> 

nothing in the mailq at all for postfix. no backlog at all. Hardly anything is 
running this time of night. The mail and list server are two different servers.

> See the 'performance' related FAQ entries. These may be out of date
> (6.6 in particular), but 4.11 and 6.4 may be useful.
> 




From ldb at freestandards.org  Tue Feb  7 08:10:27 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 02:10:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not a list member notification email
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006020622340405785553e526@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006020622340405785553e526@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43E847E3.1010400@freestandards.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>> In which queue do you find it?
>>>
>> the out queue
>>
>>> Are there any relevant messages in any of Mailman's logs, particularly
>>> 'locks', 'qrunner', 'error' and 'smtp-failure'?
>>>
>>
>> Nothing good in qrunner, locks or error. smtp-failure has legitimate failures of 
>> domain not found or rejected remote delivery (due to non-existent recipient)
> 
> 
> So are there multiple messages in the out queue? Is there a backlog?
> Does the 'smtp' log indicate that processing is going as fast as it
> can, i.e. for sequential entries in the 'smtp' log is the time between
> the time stamp of one entry and that of the next roughly equal to the
> processing time in the first entry? And, do these times seem long.
> 
> See the 'performance' related FAQ entries. These may be out of date
> (6.6 in particular), but 4.11 and 6.4 may be useful.
> 

It just flushed like you crazy!! I changed my SMTP port in Mailman from the 
default to 10025 (for amavisd). That was the only real change.

I hope that did it ...

LDB


From ldb at freestandards.org  Tue Feb  7 08:38:13 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 02:38:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006020622145905159f8836be@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006020622145905159f8836be@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43E84E65.8060002@freestandards.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
>> In the vette log, I am seeing these messages from the automatic posts ...
>>
>>
>> Feb 06 06:13:14 2006 (17698) mail-list post from daemon at mydomain.com held, 
>> message-id=<E1F6771-0005Yn-00 at servername.mydomain.com>: Message has implicit 
>> destination
> 
> So the post is held because the list posting address is not in a To: or
> Cc: header of the post, not because daemon at mydomain.com is not a
> member. If you want these posts to go to the list without being held
> for moderator approval, here are your choices.
> 
> 1)Arrange for the automated sender to put the list posting address in a
> To: or Cc: header in the message, or
> 
> 2)go to the list's Privacy options...->Recipient filters page and
> either set require_explicit_destination to No or add the actual To:
> address of the message or a regular expression that matches it to
> acceptable_aliases.
> 

Perfect .. Thank you sir ..

LDB


From netwiz at crc.id.au  Tue Feb  7 09:07:34 2006
From: netwiz at crc.id.au (Steven Haigh)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 19:07:34 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News -> Mail issues.
Message-ID: <0D5AC45A-B271-4704-9016-B2A34B94DFF5@crc.id.au>

Hi all,

One of the lists I use has just broken for news posts to mailing  
list. It was working ok, then it died. If I send mail to the list, it  
appears in the newsgroup, however if I post in the newsgroup, it  
doesn't appear on the list - even though I have "gateway_to_mail = 1"  
set.

I have this also set up on another mailing list, and newsgroup on the  
same server, and this seems to work ok. Same server, same settings.  
Anyone have any ideas on this one?

--
Steven Haigh

Email: netwiz at crc.id.au
Web: http://www.crc.id.au
Phone: (03) 9017 0597 - 0412 935 897






From clovis at agr.unicamp.br  Tue Feb  7 12:40:13 2006
From: clovis at agr.unicamp.br (Clovis Tristao)
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 09:40:13 -0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman log error
In-Reply-To: <p062007bbc00d39396a62@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <PC1740200602060854110625e5dc9a9c@msapiro>
	<43E78475.9040705@agr.unicamp.br>
	<p062007bbc00d39396a62@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <43E8871D.9010009@agr.unicamp.br>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 3:16 PM -0200 2006-02-06, Clovis Tristao wrote:
>
>>  /var/log/mailman/smtp-failure
>>  Feb 06 14:28:42 2006 (22383) Low level smtp error: Server not 
>> connected,
>>  msgid: <43E77A68.6030702 at domain.com.br>
>>  Feb 06 14:28:42 2006 (22383) delivery to user at domain.com.br failed with
>>  code -1: Server not connected
>
>     Sounds like your MTA is not running.
>
Hi,

we re-create the listname, and came back to function.
I thank all the manifestations and contributions,
Cheers,
Cl?vis

-- 
Clovis Tristao - UNICAMP/Faculdade de Engenharia Agricola
Administrador de Redes - Secao de Informatica (SINFO)
E-mail: mailto:clovis at agr.unicamp.br http://www.agr.unicamp.br
Fone(0xx19) 37881031-37881038 ou FAX(55xx19) 37881005/37881010



From stefan.fuhrmann at no-panic-systems.de  Tue Feb  7 14:21:05 2006
From: stefan.fuhrmann at no-panic-systems.de (Stefan Fuhrmann)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 14:21:05 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman log
Message-ID: <200602071421.12874.stefan.fuhrmann@no-panic-systems.de>

Hello all,
I have a debian sarge here and can not find the mailman log.
Can someone tell me where it is?

tia

Stefan

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From manuel at escapade.ch  Tue Feb  7 14:31:59 2006
From: manuel at escapade.ch (Manuel Goepfert)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 14:31:59 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UnicodeDecodeError message
Message-ID: <02a501c62bea$f2778aa0$6310a8c0@newgauche>

Hello,

 

Happy user of mailman, I'm currently running a 2.1.7 tar.gz version on a
Debian Sarge.

 

I get the following error messages:

Feb 07 12:09:03 2006 (26270) Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "/home/apps/mail/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in
_oneloop

    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)

  File "/home/apps/mail/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in
_onefile

    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)

  File "/home/apps/mail/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in
_dispose

    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)

  File "/home/apps/mail/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 216, in
ArchiveMail

    h.processUnixMailbox(f)

  File "/home/apps/mail/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 585, in
processUnixMailbox

    self.add_article(a)

  File "/home/apps/mail/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 626, in
add_article

    filename))

  File "/home/apps/mail/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 1116,
in write_article

    f.write(article.as_text())

  File "/home/apps/mail/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 579, in
as_text

    '\g<1>' + _(' at ') + '\g<2>', body)

  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/sre.py", line 143, in sub

    return _compile(pattern, 0).sub(repl, string, count)

UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe9 in position 98:
ordinal not in range(128)

 

I'm running the current python version: python2.3.5-3sarge1

 

I searched the web for this error but nothing about the current mailman
version.

 

If you have some information or if you need additional info please let me
know.

 

Regards.

 

Manuel



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Feb  7 14:24:10 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 14:24:10 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman log
In-Reply-To: <200602071421.12874.stefan.fuhrmann@no-panic-systems.de>
References: <200602071421.12874.stefan.fuhrmann@no-panic-systems.de>
Message-ID: <p062007d6c00e4fd9b84e@[10.0.1.210]>

At 2:21 PM +0100 2006-02-07, Stefan Fuhrmann wrote:

>  I have a debian sarge here and can not find the mailman log.
>  Can someone tell me where it is?

	Did you look in /usr/local/mailman/logs, or /var/mailman/logs, or 
wherever it is that Debian puts the Mailman-related stuff?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From manuel at escapade.ch  Tue Feb  7 14:48:56 2006
From: manuel at escapade.ch (Manuel Goepfert)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 14:48:56 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UnicodeDecodeError message
In-Reply-To: <02a501c62bea$f2778aa0$6310a8c0@newgauche>
Message-ID: <02ad01c62bed$4fbf04c0$6310a8c0@newgauche>

Sorry for the HTML.

Here again the message in text format.

Hello,

 

Happy user of mailman, I'm currently running a 2.1.7 tar.gz version on a
Debian Sarge.

 

I get the following error messages:

Feb 07 12:09:03 2006 (26270) Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "/home/apps/mail/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in
_oneloop

    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)

  File "/home/apps/mail/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in
_onefile

    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)

  File "/home/apps/mail/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in
_dispose

    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)

  File "/home/apps/mail/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 216, in
ArchiveMail

    h.processUnixMailbox(f)

  File "/home/apps/mail/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 585, in
processUnixMailbox

    self.add_article(a)

  File "/home/apps/mail/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 626, in
add_article

    filename))

  File "/home/apps/mail/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 1116,
in write_article

    f.write(article.as_text())

  File "/home/apps/mail/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 579, in
as_text

    '\g<1>' + _(' at ') + '\g<2>', body)

  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/sre.py", line 143, in sub

    return _compile(pattern, 0).sub(repl, string, count)

UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe9 in position 98:
ordinal not in range(128)

 

I'm running the current python version: python2.3.5-3sarge1

 

I searched the web for this error but nothing about the current mailman
version.

 

If you have some information or if you need additional info please let me
know.

 

Regards.

 

Manuel

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From stefan.fuhrmann at no-panic-systems.de  Tue Feb  7 14:53:15 2006
From: stefan.fuhrmann at no-panic-systems.de (Stefan Fuhrmann)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 14:53:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + apache2
In-Reply-To: <000001c62b88$3b6d8e20$0107a8c0@pp.local>
References: <000001c62b88$3b6d8e20$0107a8c0@pp.local>
Message-ID: <200602071453.22564.stefan.fuhrmann@no-panic-systems.de>

Am Dienstag, 7. Februar 2006 02:45 schrieben Sie:
> Stefan Fuhrmann wrote:
> >When I browse now to the URL:
> >http://domain.tld/cgi-bin/mailman/create
> >
> >then I get:
> >
> >" Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5
> >
> >We're sorry, we hit a bug!
> >
> >Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
> >traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but
> > the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. "
> >
> >So, what is wrong?
>
> Find the above error in Mailman's error log and if it is not self
> explanitory, post the complete error and traceback here and we'll help
> you decipher it.
>
> BTW, I'm not sure why you have the 'cgi-bin/' in the above URL,
> Normally, if the ScriptAlias says '/mailman/' the URL uould just be
> <http://domain.tld/mailman/create>

Okay I had a look in "/var/log/mailman/error" but its totaly empty.
Where else can I look?

tia
Stefan
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From stefan.fuhrmann at no-panic-systems.de  Tue Feb  7 14:56:24 2006
From: stefan.fuhrmann at no-panic-systems.de (Stefan Fuhrmann)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 14:56:24 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + apache2
In-Reply-To: <000001c62b88$3b6d8e20$0107a8c0@pp.local>
References: <000001c62b88$3b6d8e20$0107a8c0@pp.local>
Message-ID: <200602071456.31804.stefan.fuhrmann@no-panic-systems.de>

Am Dienstag, 7. Februar 2006 02:45 schrieben Sie:
> Stefan Fuhrmann wrote:
> >When I browse now to the URL:
> >http://domain.tld/cgi-bin/mailman/create
> >
> >then I get:
> >
> >" Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5
> >
> >We're sorry, we hit a bug!
> >
> >Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
> >traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but
> > the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. "
> >
> >So, what is wrong?
>
> Find the above error in Mailman's error log and if it is not self
> explanitory, post the complete error and traceback here and we'll help
> you decipher it.
>
> BTW, I'm not sure why you have the 'cgi-bin/' in the above URL,
> Normally, if the ScriptAlias says '/mailman/' the URL uould just be
> <http://domain.tld/mailman/create>
When I browse this then I get "file not found" 
dont know what to do here!



-- 
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From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Tue Feb  7 17:03:43 2006
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 11:03:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix+LDAP?
Message-ID: <43E8C4DF.30109@Media-Brokers.com>

Greetings,

I have googled quite a bit on this, but have not found anything recent 
or definitive...

Can anyone point me to some recent HowTo on setting up Mailman to talk 
with a Postfix/LDAP setup? If it matters, I'll be using:

CentOS 4.2
PowerSmb (http://tinyurl.com/bkdwr)
   consists of Samba/Postfix/Dovecot/LDAP, all preconfigured to work
   happily together.

Now I just need to be able to add Mailman into the mix.

I am in the process of building the server that this will all be 
installed on, so am just trying to get my hands on some HowTo's to study 
until its ready to install.

TIA

-- 

Best regards,

Charles


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb  7 17:44:53 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 08:44:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman log
In-Reply-To: <p062007d6c00e4fd9b84e@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <PC174020060207084453000050516c15@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 2:21 PM +0100 2006-02-07, Stefan Fuhrmann wrote:
>
>>  I have a debian sarge here and can not find the mailman log.
>>  Can someone tell me where it is?
>
>	Did you look in /usr/local/mailman/logs, or /var/mailman/logs, or 
>wherever it is that Debian puts the Mailman-related stuff?

Or try /var/log/mailman/ or look in mm_cfg.py for the assignment to
LOG_DIR.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb  7 17:50:14 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 08:50:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UnicodeDecodeError message
In-Reply-To: <02ad01c62bed$4fbf04c0$6310a8c0@newgauche>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602070850140765061d1d4b@msapiro>

Manuel Goepfert wrote:

>Sorry for the HTML.


Actually, it was stripped by Content Filtering.


>I get the following error messages:
>
<snip>

>  File "/home/apps/mail/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 579, in
>as_text
>
>    '\g<1>' + _(' at ') + '\g<2>', body)
>
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/sre.py", line 143, in sub
>
>    return _compile(pattern, 0).sub(repl, string, count)
>
>UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe9 in position 98:
>ordinal not in range(128)

The patch at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1405790&group_id=103&atid=300103>
contains the fix for this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb  7 17:58:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 08:58:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + apache2
In-Reply-To: <200602071453.22564.stefan.fuhrmann@no-panic-systems.de>
Message-ID: <PC174020060207085801035909cbc248@msapiro>

Stefan Fuhrmann wrote:
>
>Okay I had a look in "/var/log/mailman/error" but its totaly empty.
>Where else can I look?

Then it's not the one Mailman is actually using. As I noted in my reply
to your other post about this, look in mm_cfg.py for an assignment to
LOG_DIR, and if it's not there, see what's in Defaults.py.

Or possibly the log was rotated. Is there a /var/log/mailman/error.1

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From nosagie at hotmail.com  Tue Feb  7 17:50:50 2006
From: nosagie at hotmail.com (nico osagie)
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 16:50:50 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving list from lyris to mailman
Message-ID: <BAY103-F2FB887C73DE761F77A34DB7010@phx.gbl>

Hi All,

We are migrating from lyris to mailman, can someone please give me
Information of how I can move or copy or export the list from lyris to 
mailman.

Any information will be appreciated.


Kind regards
Nick.




From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb  7 18:12:14 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 09:12:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + apache2
In-Reply-To: <200602071456.31804.stefan.fuhrmann@no-panic-systems.de>
Message-ID: <PC174020060207091214096875632176@msapiro>

Stefan Fuhrmann wrote:
>
>Am Dienstag, 7. Februar 2006 02:45 schrieben Sie:
>>
>> BTW, I'm not sure why you have the 'cgi-bin/' in the above URL,
>> Normally, if the ScriptAlias says '/mailman/' the URL uould just be
>> <http://domain.tld/mailman/create>
>When I browse this then I get "file not found"
>dont know what to do here!

In a prior post you said:

>I set in Vhosts_ispconfig.conf (where the virutual hosts are created) >"ScriptAlias /mailman/ /var/www/web1/cgi-bin/"

If that directive actually applies to domain.tld, then (assuming that
/var/www/web1/cgi-bin/ is the directory that contains Mailman's
wrappers) the URL <http://domain.tld/mailman/create> should cause
Apache to execute the "create" wrapper.

Now it is clear that you do get to Mailman when you go to
<http://domain.tld/cgi-bin/mailman/create> so there is likely some
other Alias or ScriptAlias that handles that URL.

What is in Apache's error_log for the attempt to get
<http://domain.tld/mailman/create>?

In any case, this is not the cause of the "we hit a bug" you get when
you go to <http://domain.tld/cgi-bin/mailman/create>. That's a Mailman
message and we need Mailman's error log for that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From chris.a.adams at state.or.us  Tue Feb  7 18:23:07 2006
From: chris.a.adams at state.or.us (Christopher Adams)
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 09:23:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set mailman default for
	nonmember_rejection_notice
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602061049020937b35331cb@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200602061049020937b35331cb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43E8D77B.504@state.or.us>

That is good to know. Is the Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py file 
overwritten in an upgrade? I recently changed all lists using withlist 
to use specific text for rejected non-member messages. If I modify the 
Moderate.py file, that should take care of all new lists, unless a list 
owner chooses to modify their list.


Christopher Adams

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Christopher Adams wrote:
> 
> 
>>I am trying to set the default message (for new lists) for non-member 
>>posts that are rejected. In mm_cfg.py, I have tried:
>>
>>NONMEMBER_REJECTION_NOTICE= "Blah blah blah blah"
>>
>>That doesn't work.
>>
>>I understand that Python can use single, double, or triple quotes. None 
>>of these work.
> 
> 
> The problem is not in the syntax of your assignment, The problem is the
> default nonmember_rejection_notice for new lists is the null string
> (which in turn causes the default notice coded into
> Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py to be used) and there is no provision for
> setting a different default in mm_cfg.py.
> 
> In general, the only things that can be meaningfully set in mm_cfg.py
> are those things which are defined in Defaults.py.
> 



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb  7 19:45:15 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 10:45:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] set mailman default
	fornonmember_rejection_notice
In-Reply-To: <43E8D77B.504@state.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC17402006020710451502348c358d99@Notebook>

Christopher Adams wrote:

>That is good to know. Is the Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py file 
>overwritten in an upgrade?


Yes. basically all the python modules except mm_cfg.py are overwritten
in an upgrade.


>I recently changed all lists using withlist 
>to use specific text for rejected non-member messages. If I modify the 
>Moderate.py file, that should take care of all new lists, unless a list 
>owner chooses to modify their list.


Changing this in Moderate.py is not the way to go. Look at
Mailman/MailList.py in the definition of InitVars, you'll see
something like the following without the line wrapping.

        self.forward_auto_discards =
mm_cfg.DEFAULT_FORWARD_AUTO_DISCARDS
        self.generic_nonmember_action =
mm_cfg.DEFAULT_GENERIC_NONMEMBER_ACTION
        self.nonmember_rejection_notice = ''
        # Ban lists
        self.ban_list = []

Here you change

        self.nonmember_rejection_notice = ''

to (again watch for wrapped line)

        self.nonmember_rejection_notice =
mm_cfg.DEFAULT_NONMEMBER_REJECTION_NOTICE

and put

DEFAULT_NONMEMBER_REJECTION_NOTICE = ''

in Defaults.py. This is not critical in your case, but it would be
required (actually in Defaults.py.in) for a general patch.

Then you can put

DEFAULT_NONMEMBER_REJECTION_NOTICE = """First line of notice
second line
etc.
last line
"""

in mm_cfg.py and it will work.

This is not quite so simple to do in the Mailman distribution because
the text that actually winds up in the list's
nonmember_rejection_notice should be in the language of the list, and
there's no way to translate arbitrary text. I.e., consider a site that
supports lists in multiple languages. The fixed text built in to
Moderate.py can be replaced on the fly with the translation into the
list's language, but arbitrary text in mm_cfg.py can't be translated
in this way. It would be entered in one language and even if the
language of the new list is different, it wouldn't be translated for
that list.

Thus, the practical solution given the way i18n works in Mailman is to
have the default be the canned message, and let the list owner provide
the desired text if it's different.

Allowing a sitewide, arbitrary, default message just wouldn't work for
multi-language sites.

So, in your case, the best thing is to put the default text in
mm_cfg.py as above and then remember to make the one-line patch in
MailList.py after any upgrade.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From edwardam at interlix.com  Tue Feb  7 19:54:30 2006
From: edwardam at interlix.com (Edward Muller)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 12:54:30 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 500 Internal Server Error with edithtml (but not
	admin, admindb and the rest)
Message-ID: <200602071254.30218.edwardam@interlix.com>

I setup mailman for a customer of ours and when they try to use edithtml they 
get a 500 Internal Server Error. Apache's logs just say: 
Premature end of script 
headers: /home/virtual/site47/fst/var/www/mailman/edithtml

So that's no help.

All of the other scripts work:
http://www.mission2007.org/mailman/listinfo/traffic
http://www.mission2007.org/mailman/admin/traffic
http://www.mission2007.org/mailman/admindb/traffic
etc..

How can I debug this?

-- 
Edward Muller - Interlix
edwardam at interlix.com
417-862-0573
PGP Key: http://interlix.com/Members/edwardam/pgpkeys
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From jnguyen at ncmir.ucsd.edu  Tue Feb  7 20:25:08 2006
From: jnguyen at ncmir.ucsd.edu (Jana Nguyen)
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 11:25:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] majordomo mailinglist migration to mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006020614221502812b897fc8@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006020614221502812b897fc8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43E8F414.40206@ncmir.ucsd.edu>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Jana Nguyen wrote:
>  
>
>>I need to migrate mailing list from majordomo to mailman.  I didn't see 
>>any instructions to do this, what
>>are the steps?
>>    
>>
>
>
>There is an old perl script, majordomo2mailman.pl, in the contrib
>directory in the Mailman distribution that may or may not be helpful.
>  
>
To run this script the majordomo has to be setup on the same machine 
that is running mailman?  When I tried to run this script on different
machine that is running mailman it's looking for majordomo config 
location, error below.  I just copied the majordomo mailing list over to 
mailman
machine and run the script:

[root at app-0-0 contrib]# ./majordomo2mailman.pl 
/tmp/bcc-portal-dev.archive.mbox/bcc-portal-dev.archive.0512.mbox

can't open 
/var/lib/majordomo/lists//tmp/bcc-portal-dev.archive.mbox/bcc-portal-dev.archive.0512.mbox.config

>
>  
>
>>If I copy the mailing list from majordomo to mailman at the following 
>>location:
>>/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/
>>    
>>
>
>
>You need somehow to export the majordomo archive as a mbox format file
>(a flat file with raw messages separated by lines that begin "From "
>with email address and date), and then use Mailman's bin/arch tool to
>build the archive from the mbox.
>  
>
To enable this to work, I found out that you need to have an existing 
mailman mailing list if not it can't find the "mylist":

[root at birn-app-0-0 mailman]# ./bin/arch --wipe 
bcc-portal-dev.archive.mbox 
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/bcc-portal-dev.a
rchive.mbox

No such list "bcc-portal-dev.archive.mbox"






From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb  7 21:41:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 12:41:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 500 Internal Server Error with edithtml (but
	notadmin, admindb and the rest)
In-Reply-To: <200602071254.30218.edwardam@interlix.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060207124101059315a4e992@Notebook>

Edward Muller wrote:
>
>I setup mailman for a customer of ours and when they try to use edithtml they
>get a 500 Internal Server Error. Apache's logs just say:
>Premature end of script
>headers: /home/virtual/site47/fst/var/www/mailman/edithtml
>
>So that's no help.
>
>All of the other scripts work:
>http://www.mission2007.org/mailman/listinfo/traffic
>http://www.mission2007.org/mailman/admin/traffic
>http://www.mission2007.org/mailman/admindb/traffic
>etc..
>
>How can I debug this?

Look in Mailman's error log although there might be nothing there. If
there is nothing, try running the edithtml cgi-bin wrapper from the
shell with the command.

path/to/edithtml

The expected output is some html including

<h2>List name is required.</h2>

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb  7 21:53:21 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 12:53:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] majordomo mailinglist migration to mailman
In-Reply-To: <43E8F414.40206@ncmir.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602071253210687a9532fa4@Notebook>

Jana Nguyen wrote:
>>
>To enable this to work, I found out that you need to have an existing 
>mailman mailing list if not it can't find the "mylist":
>
>[root at birn-app-0-0 mailman]# ./bin/arch --wipe 
>bcc-portal-dev.archive.mbox 
>/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/bcc-portal-dev.a
>rchive.mbox
>
>No such list "bcc-portal-dev.archive.mbox"

That's correct. You first need to create the new Mailman list and then
run the command

./bin/arch --wipe <list_name> bcc-portal-dev.archive.mbox

Where <list_name> is the name of your new Mailman list.

As far as the majordomo2mailman.pl script is concerned, it's
unsupported. If it doesn't work for you, you'll need to set up the new
Mailman list by hand. You can use the admin Mass Subscribe web page to
inport your membership list. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.044.htp>.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Tue Feb  7 21:58:01 2006
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 15:58:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Privacy Options > Sender Filters > non-member
	filters
Message-ID: <43E909D9.3010205@Media-Brokers.com>

I have googled to no avail, and find nothing in the docs...

Is it possible to reference a one-address-per-line text file for this 
filter?

I have 8 lists, and all need to reference the same list of addresses as 
a 'whitelist', so that only those non-members are allowed to post. As it 
is now, I have to edit each list separately. I'd like to simply 
reference a plain text file, that I would thenonly have to edit once.

Any way to do this?

-- 

Best regards,

Charles


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb  7 21:59:26 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 12:59:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 500 Internal Server Error with edithtml
	(butnotadmin, admindb and the rest)
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060207124101059315a4e992@Notebook>
Message-ID: <PC17402006020712592604215606dcff@Notebook>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>Look in Mailman's error log although there might be nothing there. If
>there is nothing, try running the edithtml cgi-bin wrapper from the
>shell with the command.
>
>path/to/edithtml
>
>The expected output is some html including
>
><h2>List name is required.</h2>


Actually, I just tried to go to
<http://www.mission2007.org/mailman/edithtml> and
<http://www.mission2007.org/mailman/edithtml/traffic>. The former
gives me the "List name is required." response as expected. Only the
latter gives the server error, so in this case I expect that there
will be something meaningful in Mailman's error log.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Tue Feb  7 22:05:59 2006
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 06:05:59 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 500 Internal Server Error with edithtml (but
 not	admin, admindb and the rest)
In-Reply-To: <200602071254.30218.edwardam@interlix.com>
References: <200602071254.30218.edwardam@interlix.com>
Message-ID: <43E90BB7.6070908@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi,

Edward Muller wrote:
> I setup mailman for a customer of ours and when they try to use edithtml they 
> get a 500 Internal Server Error. Apache's logs just say: 
> Premature end of script 
> headers: /home/virtual/site47/fst/var/www/mailman/edithtml
> 
> So that's no help.

This is *also* fixed by this patch:
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1405790&group_id=103&atid=300103

Cheers,
-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/


From nvoth at estreet.com  Tue Feb  7 21:57:16 2006
From: nvoth at estreet.com (Nick Voth)
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 13:57:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can we limit the number of subscribers
Message-ID: <C00E57BC.58A7D%nvoth@estreet.com>

Hello folks,

I have searched high and low and the census  seems to be that there is no
way to "easily" limit the number of subscribers any individual list can
have. Is that really the case?

Does anyone know if that's a feature that will be incorporated in the
future?

Thanks very much,

-Nick Voth



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb  7 22:17:30 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 13:17:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Privacy Options > Sender Filters >
	non-memberfilters
In-Reply-To: <43E909D9.3010205@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006020713173004065cbb2454@Notebook>

Charles Marcus wrote:
>
>Is it possible to reference a one-address-per-line text file for this 
>filter?

Not without modifying the source code.

One way you could accomplish this is to get the patch at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103>.
Then you could either modify the patch to get its whitelist from a
file instead of another list, or you could create a separate list
which is essentially turned off except that its membership could be
the whitelist for the other lists.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From rdl at fsl.com  Tue Feb  7 22:36:41 2006
From: rdl at fsl.com (Randolph Langley)
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 16:36:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail-gid problem...
Message-ID: <43E912E9.7080402@fsl.com>


I am trying to get mailman running with virtual domains on a postfix box.

When I found this error in the log:

relay=local, delay=0, status=bounced (Command died with status 2: 
"/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin test". Command output: Group 
mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed 
as group "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail 
script as group "nobody".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the 
script as group "mailman", or re-run configure,  providing the command 
line option `--with-mail-gid=nobody'

I did a make clean; ./configure --with-mail-gid=nobody; make install

Now I am find the opposite in the mail logs:

relay=local, delay=0, status=bounced (Command died with status 2: 
"/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request test". Command output: Group 
mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed 
as group "nobody", but the system's mail server executed the mail script 
as group "mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as 
group "nobody", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option 
`--with-mail-gid=mailman'

Does anyone have any idea how to resolve this one?

Thanks in advance ...



From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Tue Feb  7 22:50:49 2006
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 16:50:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Privacy Options > Sender Filters >
	non-memberfilters
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006020713173004065cbb2454@Notebook>
References: <PC17402006020713173004065cbb2454@Notebook>
Message-ID: <43E91639.9050807@Media-Brokers.com>

>> Is it possible to reference a one-address-per-line text file for this 
>> filter?

> Not without modifying the source code.
> 
> One way you could accomplish this is to get the patch at
> <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103>.
> Then you could either modify the patch to get its whitelist from a
> file instead of another list, or you could create a separate list
> which is essentially turned off except that its membership could be
> the whitelist for the other lists.

Thanks, I'll check it out...

-- 

Best regards,

Charles


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Feb  7 22:58:06 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 22:58:06 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can we limit the number of subscribers
In-Reply-To: <C00E57BC.58A7D%nvoth@estreet.com>
References: <C00E57BC.58A7D%nvoth@estreet.com>
Message-ID: <p062007dec00ec846f214@[10.0.1.210]>

At 1:57 PM -0700 2006-02-07, Nick Voth wrote:

>  I have searched high and low and the census  seems to be that there is no
>  way to "easily" limit the number of subscribers any individual list can
>  have. Is that really the case?

	Correct.

>  Does anyone know if that's a feature that will be incorporated in the
>  future?

	Dunno.  Have you looked at the bug and patch lists on the 
respective Mailman SourceForge pages?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From edwardam at interlix.com  Tue Feb  7 23:04:20 2006
From: edwardam at interlix.com (Edward Muller)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 16:04:20 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 500 Internal Server Error with edithtml
	(butnotadmin, admindb and the rest)
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006020712592604215606dcff@Notebook>
References: <PC17402006020712592604215606dcff@Notebook>
Message-ID: <200602071604.20347.edwardam@interlix.com>

Nope, nothing in the error log.

On Tuesday 07 February 2006 02:59 pm, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >Look in Mailman's error log although there might be nothing there. If
> >there is nothing, try running the edithtml cgi-bin wrapper from the
> >shell with the command.
> >
> >path/to/edithtml
> >
> >The expected output is some html including
> >
> ><h2>List name is required.</h2>
>
> Actually, I just tried to go to
> <http://www.mission2007.org/mailman/edithtml> and
> <http://www.mission2007.org/mailman/edithtml/traffic>. The former
> gives me the "List name is required." response as expected. Only the
> latter gives the server error, so in this case I expect that there
> will be something meaningful in Mailman's error log.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-- 
Edward Muller - Interlix
edwardam at interlix.com
417-862-0573
PGP Key: http://interlix.com/Members/edwardam/pgpkeys
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From edwardam at interlix.com  Tue Feb  7 23:06:53 2006
From: edwardam at interlix.com (Edward Muller)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 16:06:53 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users]
	=?iso-2022-jp?b?NTAwIEludGVybmFsIFNlcnZlciBFcnJv?=
	=?iso-2022-jp?b?ciB3aXRoIGVkaXRodG1sIChidXQgbm90CWFkbWluICwgYWRt?=
	=?iso-2022-jp?b?aW5kYiBhbmQgdGhlIHJlc3Qp?=
In-Reply-To: <43E90BB7.6070908@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <200602071254.30218.edwardam@interlix.com>
	<43E90BB7.6070908@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <200602071606.53811.edwardam@interlix.com>

So which part of this patch fixes the problem I'm getting?

On Tuesday 07 February 2006 03:05 pm, Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Edward Muller wrote:
> > I setup mailman for a customer of ours and when they try to use edithtml
> > they get a 500 Internal Server Error. Apache's logs just say:
> > Premature end of script
> > headers: /home/virtual/site47/fst/var/www/mailman/edithtml
> >
> > So that's no help.
>
> This is *also* fixed by this patch:
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1405790&group_id=1
>03&atid=300103
>
> Cheers,

-- 
Edward Muller - Interlix
edwardam at interlix.com
417-862-0573
PGP Key: http://interlix.com/Members/edwardam/pgpkeys
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From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb  7 23:16:36 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 14:16:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 500 Internal Server Error with edithtml
	(butnotadmin, admindb and the rest)
In-Reply-To: <200602071606.53811.edwardam@interlix.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602071416360625d232f7b5@Notebook>

Edward Muller wrote:
>
>So which part of this patch fixes the problem I'm getting?


The part that adds

import re

to Mailman/Cgi/edithtml.py

But you may run into one of the other bugs sooner or later, so why not
apply the whole patch?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb  7 23:31:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 14:31:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail-gid problem...
In-Reply-To: <43E912E9.7080402@fsl.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602071431560890d84e03f2@Notebook>

Randolph Langley wrote:
>
>I am trying to get mailman running with virtual domains on a postfix box.
>
>When I found this error in the log:
>
>relay=local, delay=0, status=bounced (Command died with status 2: 
>"/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin test". Command output: Group 
>mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed 
>as group "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail 
>script as group "nobody".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the 
>script as group "mailman", or re-run configure,  providing the command 
>line option `--with-mail-gid=nobody'
>
>I did a make clean; ./configure --with-mail-gid=nobody; make install
>
>Now I am find the opposite in the mail logs:
>
>relay=local, delay=0, status=bounced (Command died with status 2: 
>"/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request test". Command output: Group 
>mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed 
>as group "nobody", but the system's mail server executed the mail script 
>as group "mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as 
>group "nobody", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option 
>`--with-mail-gid=mailman'
>
>Does anyone have any idea how to resolve this one?

The normal cause of this with Postfix is having Mailman's aliases in
more than one file. When Postfix finds an alias that pipes to a
command, it runs the command with user/group equal to the ownership of
the aliases.db (or whatever it's name is) in which it found the alias.

So I'm guessing you have some Mailman aliases in Mailman's data/aliases
and data/aliases.db files which belong to group Mailman and other
Mailman aliases in /etc/postfix/aliases and /etc/postfix/aliases.db
which belong to group nobody.

The best fix is to put all Mailman's aliases in Mailman's files and
reconfigure --with-mail-gid=mailman.

Running bin/genaliases should fix all Mailman's alias files which may
actually be OK anyway, but you still will need to remove any Mailman
aliases from /etc/postfix/aliases and run postalias.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From edwardam at interlix.com  Wed Feb  8 00:25:21 2006
From: edwardam at interlix.com (Edward Muller)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 17:25:21 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 500 Internal Server Error with edithtml
	(butnotadmin, admindb and the rest)
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602071416360625d232f7b5@Notebook>
References: <PC1740200602071416360625d232f7b5@Notebook>
Message-ID: <200602071725.25050.edwardam@interlix.com>

I reviewed the patch a bit and it looks reasonable to apply, so I applied it.

However edithtml/traffic (traffic being the name of the list) still returns a 
500 error and there is nothing in the error log.

http://www.mission2007.org/mailman/edithtml/traffic

On Tuesday 07 February 2006 04:16 pm, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Edward Muller wrote:
> >So which part of this patch fixes the problem I'm getting?
>
> The part that adds
>
> import re
>
> to Mailman/Cgi/edithtml.py
>
> But you may run into one of the other bugs sooner or later, so why not
> apply the whole patch?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-- 
Edward Muller - Interlix
edwardam at interlix.com
417-862-0573
PGP Key: http://interlix.com/Members/edwardam/pgpkeys
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From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Wed Feb  8 00:44:59 2006
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 08:44:59 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 500 Internal Server Error with
 edithtml	(butnotadmin, admindb and the rest)
In-Reply-To: <200602071725.25050.edwardam@interlix.com>
References: <PC1740200602071416360625d232f7b5@Notebook>
	<200602071725.25050.edwardam@interlix.com>
Message-ID: <43E930FB.4060604@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Edward Muller wrote:
> I reviewed the patch a bit and it looks reasonable to apply, so I applied it.
> 
> However edithtml/traffic (traffic being the name of the list) still returns a 
> 500 error and there is nothing in the error log.

If nothing in the mailman log, then check the httpd (apache?) error_log.

> 
> http://www.mission2007.org/mailman/edithtml/traffic
> 
> On Tuesday 07 February 2006 04:16 pm, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
>>Edward Muller wrote:
>>
>>>So which part of this patch fixes the problem I'm getting?
>>
>>The part that adds
>>
>>import re
>>
>>to Mailman/Cgi/edithtml.py
>>
>>But you may run into one of the other bugs sooner or later, so why not
>>apply the whole patch?
>>
>>--
>>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 


-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/


From ssbrown71 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb  8 01:53:41 2006
From: ssbrown71 at yahoo.com (Stephan Brown)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 16:53:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disabling Monitor Requets Waiting
Message-ID: <20060208005341.11107.qmail@web31702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I am running Mailman specifcally to set up mailing lists at my school.  Our District mail server is housed at our district office.  Of my 30 or so mailing lists, each day at 8AM I get an email from each saying:
   

The <<insert mailing list>> mailing list has -1  request(s) waiting for your consideration at:          Please attend to this at your earliest convenience.  This notice of  pending requests, if any, will be sent out daily.  

 

However, when I check there are no pending requests.  

Where/how can I disable this?  All users at my site are 

authorized to post to all groups.

			
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb  8 02:05:02 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 17:05:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 500 Internal Server Error with edithtml
	(butnotadmin, admindb and the rest)
In-Reply-To: <200602071725.25050.edwardam@interlix.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060207170502075074108610@msapiro>

Edward Muller wrote:
>
>I reviewed the patch a bit and it looks reasonable to apply, so I applied it.
>
>However edithtml/traffic (traffic being the name of the list) still returns a
>500 error and there is nothing in the error log.
>
>http://www.mission2007.org/mailman/edithtml/traffic

Are you sure you're looking at the correct error log? Are the other
logs in that directory (like post and smtp) being written?

Are you sure you patched the correct edithtml.py? Did the edithtml.pyc
in the same directory get updated after the attempt to retrieve the
page?

Since <http://www.mission2007.org/mailman/edithtml> works and produces
the expected output (List name is required.), it seems that
<http://www.mission2007.org/mailman/edithtml/traffic> must be
executing the edithtml.py script, and I can't see how the script would
terminate without either producing output or throwing an exception
which would be logged as an error or produce something in the web
server log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb  8 02:21:19 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 17:21:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disabling Monitor Requets Waiting
In-Reply-To: <20060208005341.11107.qmail@web31702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602071721190468dfa7e1c7@msapiro>

Stephan Brown wrote:

>I am running Mailman specifcally to set up mailing lists at my school.  Our District mail server is housed at our district office.  Of my 30 or so mailing lists, each day at 8AM I get an email from each saying:
>   
>
>The <<insert mailing list>> mailing list has -1  request(s) waiting for your consideration at:

This is a migration bug introduced when migrating from pre 2.1.5 to
2.1.5 (Or maybe it occurs with new lists in 2.1.5) See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.038.htp>
for an array of solutions.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lists at nabble.com  Wed Feb  8 04:54:05 2006
From: lists at nabble.com (RobertHJ (sent by Nabble.com))
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 19:54:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Members only umbrella lists
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602060949150187cdfa5dea@msapiro>
References: <2785397.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<PC1740200602060949150187cdfa5dea@msapiro>
Message-ID: <2815164.post@talk.nabble.com>


Mark Sapiro wrote.....

You can try subscribing umbrellalist-bounces at ... to the sub lists with
delivery disabled and password reminders off. This may work. Let us
know.

Yes - that seems to work OK so thanks for that!!

BTW, to continue your signature...

"Take what you have gathered from coincidence!" (B. Dylan)

Rob
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Members-only-umbrella-lists-t1070607.html#a2815164
Sent from the Mailman - Users forum at Nabble.com.


From erbe at fh-swf.de  Wed Feb  8 08:58:32 2006
From: erbe at fh-swf.de (Christian Erbe)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 08:58:32 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing Email-Texts...
Message-ID: <001f01c62c85$74572ae0$6747aec1@ik>

Hi there & sorry to bother, 
 
I couldn't find any suitable information on the web site, FAQs or manuals,
so I decided to mail my problem:
 
For some of our purposes the translation of some texts is not really
working, including those texts in the confirmation and welcome emails that
are not customizable via admin interface. Also, we would like to change
parts of the web texts that are automatically inserted via <MM-Field> tags.
I have tried to contact P.Heinlein, who is contact person for German
translation, but he seems to be busy. Actually, he probably would not be the
right guy to talk to anyway, because the translation per se is not "wrong",
it just doesn't fit our needs...
 
So I was wondering, if at any chance there is a plan to make thoses texts
(that are still hidden in source code somewhere) customizable via
webinterface, too and - if this is the case - when such an update is
planned; or - if this is not the case - what else we can do to solve our
problem. Trying to change the source code doesn't seem to be a good idea, as
nobody here really understands python and the next update will probably
cause trouble.
 
Thanks a lot & best regards,
Christian Erbe
 


From edwardam at interlix.com  Wed Feb  8 17:50:42 2006
From: edwardam at interlix.com (Edward Muller)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 10:50:42 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 500 Internal Server Error with edithtml
	(butnotadmin, admindb and the rest)
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060207170502075074108610@msapiro>
References: <PC174020060207170502075074108610@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200602081050.42790.edwardam@interlix.com>

On Tuesday 07 February 2006 07:05 pm, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Edward Muller wrote:
> >I reviewed the patch a bit and it looks reasonable to apply, so I applied
> > it.
> >
> >However edithtml/traffic (traffic being the name of the list) still
> > returns a 500 error and there is nothing in the error log.
> >
> >http://www.mission2007.org/mailman/edithtml/traffic
>
> Are you sure you're looking at the correct error log? Are the other
> logs in that directory (like post and smtp) being written?

Yes, looking at the correct log file.
The qrunner log file is, there isn't any real traffic yet. The client wants to 
customize the interface a bit first... I think.

>
> Are you sure you patched the correct edithtml.py? Did the edithtml.pyc
> in the same directory get updated after the attempt to retrieve the
> page?

Yes, patched the correct edithtml.py. In fact I applied the entire patch.
Today I erased edithtml.pyc and it's not being re-created when I vist:
http://www.mission2007.org/mailman/edithtml/traffic
But it was re-created when I visited:
http://www.mission2007.org/mailman/edithtml

So I don't think edithtml/traffic is even getting to load the edithtml module.

>
> Since <http://www.mission2007.org/mailman/edithtml> works and produces
> the expected output (List name is required.), it seems that
> <http://www.mission2007.org/mailman/edithtml/traffic> must be
> executing the edithtml.py script, and I can't see how the script would
> terminate without either producing output or throwing an exception
> which would be logged as an error or produce something in the web
> server log.

-- 
Edward Muller - Interlix
edwardam at interlix.com
417-862-0573
PGP Key: http://interlix.com/Members/edwardam/pgpkeys
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From edwardam at interlix.com  Wed Feb  8 17:51:13 2006
From: edwardam at interlix.com (Edward Muller)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 10:51:13 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users]
	=?iso-2022-jp?b?NTAwIEludGVybmFsIFNlcnZlciBFcnJv?=
	=?iso-2022-jp?b?ciB3aXRoIGVkaXRodG1sIChidXRub3RhZG1pbiwgYWRtaW5k?=
	=?iso-2022-jp?b?YiBhbmQgdGhlIHJlc3Qp?=
In-Reply-To: <43E930FB.4060604@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <PC1740200602071416360625d232f7b5@Notebook>
	<200602071725.25050.edwardam@interlix.com>
	<43E930FB.4060604@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <200602081051.13456.edwardam@interlix.com>

On Tuesday 07 February 2006 05:44 pm, Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
> Edward Muller wrote:
> > I reviewed the patch a bit and it looks reasonable to apply, so I applied
> > it.
> >
> > However edithtml/traffic (traffic being the name of the list) still
> > returns a 500 error and there is nothing in the error log.
>
> If nothing in the mailman log, then check the httpd (apache?) error_log.

[Wed Feb  8 11:31:26 2006] [error] [client 64.22.224.52] Premature end of 
script headers: /home/virtual/site47/fst/var/www/mailman/edithtml

Is all I get.

>
> > http://www.mission2007.org/mailman/edithtml/traffic
> >
> > On Tuesday 07 February 2006 04:16 pm, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >>Edward Muller wrote:
> >>>So which part of this patch fixes the problem I'm getting?
> >>
> >>The part that adds
> >>
> >>import re
> >>
> >>to Mailman/Cgi/edithtml.py
> >>
> >>But you may run into one of the other bugs sooner or later, so why not
> >>apply the whole patch?
> >>
> >>--
> >>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> >>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-- 
Edward Muller - Interlix
edwardam at interlix.com
417-862-0573
PGP Key: http://interlix.com/Members/edwardam/pgpkeys
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From grundy_tom at hotmail.com  Wed Feb  8 20:25:25 2006
From: grundy_tom at hotmail.com (Tom Grundy)
Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 11:25:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] why is plain text option (removes MIME/HTML) only
	available for digest?
Message-ID: <BAY106-F47598E8246E47A9D16138F5000@phx.gbl>

Hello - we would like to be able to specify plain vs MIME (on a user-by-user 
basis) for regular non-digest delivery.  'option plain' only lets you set 
the user-by-user option when digests are on.

-Tom




From mailinglists at backbonetechnology.com  Thu Feb  9 01:26:05 2006
From: mailinglists at backbonetechnology.com (Dustin Krysak)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 16:26:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add Approved: header to subject [dnk]
Message-ID: <11E2BABE-D290-4727-84B4-6C00C1A560FE@backbonetechnology.com>

Good day.

I have a moderated list where I have implemented the Approve: header  
method. Now with the people using this, having it actually in the  
headers is not an option as they do not understand how to modify  
them, etc. Now i know there is the option to add it to the first line  
of the body. This too does me no good as the end user will be sending  
HTML mail to their list... which when using the Aprove: header is an  
issue since a portion of the html is stripped and that causes other  
portions of the HTML to be displayed to the people.

IS there a way to use the Approve header in the subject of the email?

Just looking for a way to spoof proof a list and still use HTML  
without having to get them to add the extra header in their mail  
client (outlook).


Thanks in advance!

d




From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb  9 02:30:52 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 17:30:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 500 Internal Server Error with edithtml
	(butnotadmin, admindb and the rest)
In-Reply-To: <200602081050.42790.edwardam@interlix.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602081730520703e61a4793@msapiro>

Edward Muller wrote:
>
>Yes, patched the correct edithtml.py. In fact I applied the entire patch.
>Today I erased edithtml.pyc and it's not being re-created when I vist:
>http://www.mission2007.org/mailman/edithtml/traffic
>But it was re-created when I visited:
>http://www.mission2007.org/mailman/edithtml
>
>So I don't think edithtml/traffic is even getting to load the edithtml module.

I agree. It definitely seems that
<http://www.mission2007.org/mailman/edithtml/traffic> is not going to
the correct wrapper/driver/Cgi script, but
<http://www.mission2007.org/mailman/edithtml> is. I would say this has
to be in the Apache configuration, but the most obvious thing is
something (alias, scriptalias, ??) matching 'traffic', but the other
<http://www.mission2007.org/mailman/listinfo/traffic>,
<http://www.mission2007.org/mailman/admin/traffic>,
<http://www.mission2007.org/mailman/admindb/traffic>, etc URLs all
appear to work.

Is there anything in the Apache config that could be matching on
edithtml/traffic?

In another post you say:

>[Wed Feb  8 11:31:26 2006] [error] [client 64.22.224.52] Premature end of
>script headers: /home/virtual/site47/fst/var/www/mailman/edithtml
>
>Is all I get. (in the Apache log).

Is this path, or at least the '/var/www/mailman/edithtml' part of it
where your Mailman cgi-bin wrappers are? What is the path in your

ScriptAlias /mailman/ path

directive in the Apache config? If it's not '/var/www/mailman/', where
is that coming from?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb  9 02:40:11 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 17:40:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] why is plain text option (removes MIME/HTML)
	onlyavailable for digest?
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-F47598E8246E47A9D16138F5000@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC174020060208174011004674108359@msapiro>

Tom Grundy wrote:

>Hello - we would like to be able to specify plain vs MIME (on a user-by-user 
>basis) for regular non-digest delivery.  'option plain' only lets you set 
>the user-by-user option when digests are on.

The plain vs MIME digest setting controls whether the digest is sent as
one flattened message body containing all the posts vs as a
multipart/mixed message containing text/plain subparts for the boiler
plate and table of contents and a multipart/digest subpart containing
the individual posts as subparts. Different MUAs do better with one
form or the other, so users are offered a choice.

In the case of individual messages, they are sent as is (after content
filtering if any is applied). Just what would you envision a plain vs
MIME choice actually doing?

If you mean you want to be able to apply per user content filtering
rules, that just isn't feasable within the current Mailman design.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Feb  9 02:49:36 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2006 10:49:36 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] why is plain text option (removes MIME/HTML)
 only available for digest?
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-F47598E8246E47A9D16138F5000@phx.gbl> (Tom Grundy's
	message of "Wed, 08 Feb 2006 11:25:25 -0800")
References: <BAY106-F47598E8246E47A9D16138F5000@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <878xslnvwv.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Tom" == Tom Grundy <grundy_tom at hotmail.com> writes:

    Tom> Hello - we would like to be able to specify plain vs MIME (on
    Tom> a user-by-user basis) for regular non-digest delivery.
    Tom> 'option plain' only lets you set the user-by-user option when
    Tom> digests are on.

The plain text option for digests simply specifies one of two standard
ways to encapsulate the individual posts, and glue them into a
digest.  It does nothing to the content or format of the contained
posts, which will still contain MIME or HTML depending on the list's
content filter configuration.

The content filtering options that remove MIME and HTML are on the
"content filtering" page in the administrative menus.  These options
are complex and not really user-servicable.  If you want to provide
the option to users, I suppose you could set a policy of stripping all
non-text content from one list, a more lenient policy for another
list, and subscribe both to an umbrella list that passes everything.
Then have the users subscribe to the list with the content format they
prefer, and (if user posting is allowed) post to the umbrella list.
If they want to be able to switch fairly easily, subscribe to both and
set one to no-mail.

-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb  9 02:56:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 17:56:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] why is plain text option (removes
	MIME/HTML)onlyavailable for digest?
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060208174011004674108359@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602081756500531f83cc985@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>If you mean you want to be able to apply per user content filtering
>rules, that just isn't feasable within the current Mailman design.

Looking more carefully at the subject of this thread, I think maybe you
want scrub_nondigest to be applied per user rather than per list as it
currently is.

I think this might more appropriately be a list owner/site owner
decision, but you obviously disagree. I think however that our
disagreement is moot, because I think that this too is not feasable
within the current Mailman design.

You can always submit it as a feature request at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=350103>
-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lists05 at equinephotoart.com  Thu Feb  9 05:32:34 2006
From: lists05 at equinephotoart.com (JC Dill)
Date: Wed, 08 Feb 2006 20:32:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add Approved: header to subject [dnk]
In-Reply-To: <11E2BABE-D290-4727-84B4-6C00C1A560FE@backbonetechnology.com>
References: <11E2BABE-D290-4727-84B4-6C00C1A560FE@backbonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <43EAC5E2.6050506@equinephotoart.com>

Dustin Krysak wrote:
> Good day.
> 
> I have a moderated list where I have implemented the Approve: header  
> method. Now with the people using this, having it actually in the  
> headers is not an option as they do not understand how to modify  
> them, etc. Now i know there is the option to add it to the first line  
> of the body. This too does me no good as the end user will be sending  
> HTML mail to their list... which when using the Aprove: header is an  
> issue since a portion of the html is stripped and that causes other  
> portions of the HTML to be displayed to the people.
> 
> IS there a way to use the Approve header in the subject of the email?

Not that I know of.

> Just looking for a way to spoof proof a list and still use HTML  
> without having to get them to add the extra header in their mail  
> client (outlook).

One solution is for your approved posters would be for them to use a 
different client that allows them to add an extra header.  They wouldn't 
have to use that client for all their email - they could just use it 
when they want to post to your list.

Take a look at Eudora, Agent, and Thunderbird.  In Eudora and 
Thunderbird look at how to do "stationary" in that client that would 
automatically address the message to your list and automatically include 
the approved header, and then create a step-by-step instruction sheet on 
how to download, install, and configure the client to work to post to 
your list.  It will take each user a few minutes to follow your 
instructions, but once it's all setup all they have to do is open the 
client software and create a new message and everything else will be 
automagic.  In Agent, you add the alternate header as a field in the 
agent.ini and then it's available as a "special field" that you can fill 
in when you compose an outbound message.

Another solution is to use the 2-step process of sending (without an 
approved header) then logging into the website and approving the held 
message.  Just make your approved senders moderators of your list.  This 
is easier to get started, but means more steps each time they want to 
send a post to your list.

jc


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb  9 07:40:06 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 22:40:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add Approved: header to subject [dnk]
In-Reply-To: <11E2BABE-D290-4727-84B4-6C00C1A560FE@backbonetechnology.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602082240060859be44d821@msapiro>

Dustin Krysak wrote:

>Now i know there is the option to add it to the first line  
>of the body. This too does me no good as the end user will be sending  
>HTML mail to their list... 


Beginning in Mailman 2.1.7, if the post is multipart/alternative with
text/plain and text/html sub-parts. An approved: first body line will
be removed from both the text/plain and the text/html sub-parts. It
still will not be recognized or removed if the message is HTML only,
but if the first non-blank line of the first text/plain part is the
Approved: line it will be removed from that part and searched for and
removed from all other text/* parts.


>which when using the Aprove: header is an  
>issue since a portion of the html is stripped and that causes other  
>portions of the HTML to be displayed to the people.


I'm not sure what you're saying here. Is there a problem in the way the
Approved: line is removed from the HTML in the above described
multipart case?


>IS there a way to use the Approve header in the subject of the email?


Not currently without modifying the code.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Hannu.Niemi at kuntaliitto.fi  Thu Feb  9 09:29:44 2006
From: Hannu.Niemi at kuntaliitto.fi (Niemi Hannu)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 10:29:44 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation problems
Message-ID: <C262B8ECE515D348BF758C93F12F6F7602A16C43@KLMAIL.ad.kuntaliitto.fi>



> -----Alkuper?inen viesti-----
> L?hett?j?: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
> L?hetetty: 27. tammikuuta 2006 23:30
> Vastaanottaja: Niemi Hannu; mailman-users at python.org
> Aihe: Re: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation problems
> 
> Niemi Hannu wrote:
> >
> >> Is it only this list that fails? It is not likely a virtual host 
> >> problem as host really isn't involved in processing confirmations.
> >
> >I had to test the others. To be honest I haven't earlier 
> used this kind 
> >of "user-driven subscription" in any of the lists on that 
> server, but have been adding the users on the web form instead.
> 
> Check mailman's 'error' log and also permissions on the 
> list's pending.pck file.

Hello

I was away for some time (hey, even I have vacation somedays ;)) and have now come back.

If you have forgotten what the problem is:

e-mail conformation isn't working for a list (though for others it does). 

After evaluating the problem again it seems that my first impression was a bit erroneous (read I didn't debug efficiently enough):

It seems that confirming via web page works, but only if one hasn't tried to do it by mail. It seems that the mail removes the confirmation from the pending confirmations, but doesn't do the trick. And after that the web page confirmation doesn't really have anything to confirm against.

The error log gives the following information:

-----------------8<--------------8<-----------------

Feb 08 21:26:11 2006 (29601) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
Feb 08 21:26:11 2006 (29601) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 110, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 160, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/OutgoingRunner.py", line 74, in _dispose
    self._func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py", line 180, in process
    mm_cfg.SMTP_LOG_EVERY_MESSAGE[1], kws=d)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Syslog.py", line 49, in write_ex
    logf = self._logfiles[kind] = StampedLogger(kind)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py", line 52, in __init__
    Logger.__init__(self, category, nofail, immediate)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 49, in __init__
    self.__get_f()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 75, in __get_f
    _logexc(self, e)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.py", line 22, in _logexc
    sys.__stderr__.write('Logging error: %s\n' % logger)
IOError: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor

Feb 08 21:26:11 2006 (29601) SHUNTING: 1139426770.15838+256c6fef5c6868ee41812a6ec8d71a9d1da73730

-----------------8<--------------8<-----------------

Any suggestions based on this one?

Best regards

Hannu Niemi


From kevin.mcnamee at symsoft.se  Thu Feb  9 10:15:41 2006
From: kevin.mcnamee at symsoft.se (Kevin McNamee)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 10:15:41 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail and mm-handler woes
Message-ID: <200602090915.k199Ff4o013338@my.symsoft.se>

Hi,

 

I am using Solaris 10 and installing mailman 2.1.7

I have followed the mailman instruction and mm-handler.readme and I can
administer everything via web and receive confirmation emails, except I get
"User unknown" when I try send to my testlist at mailman.symsoft.se. From
reading the archives it suggests that sendmail is not recognising mm-handler
as the recipient of mail to the mailman.symsoft.se domain. 

 

 

Here is my sendmail.mc:

 

VERSIONID(`@(#)sendmail.mc      1.11 (Sun) 06/21/04')

OSTYPE(solaris2)dnl

DOMAIN(generic)dnl

FEATURE(`use_cw_file')dnl

FEATURE(`smrsh',`/usr/lib/smrsh')dnl

FEATURE(`access_db',`hash -T<TMPF> /etc/mail/access.db')dnl

FEATURE(`delay_checks')dnl

FEATURE(`ratecontrol',`nodelay')dnl

 

define(`PROCMAIL_MAILER_PATH', `/opt/sfw/bin/procmail')dnl

FEATURE(`local_procmail')dnl

FEATURE(`mailertable', `hash -o /etc/mail/mailertable')dnl

FEATURE(`virtusertable', `hash -o /etc/mail/virtusertable')dnl

VIRTUSER_DOMAIN(`mailman.symsoft.se')dnl

define(`confDONT_PROBE_INTERFACES', `True')dnl

FEATURE(`limited_masquerade')dnl

MASQUERADE_AS(`mailman.symsoft.se')dnl

FEATURE(`blacklist_recipients')dnl

 

define(`confTO_IDENT', `0s')dnl

define(`confMAX_MESSAGE_SIZE', `50000000')dnl

define(`confCONNECTION_RATE_THROTTLE', `1')dnl

define(`confPRIVACY_FLAGS', `goaway')dnl

define(`confMAX_DAEMON_CHILDREN', `60')dnl

define(`confMAX_QUEUE_CHILDREN', `70')dnl

define(`confDOUBLE_BOUNCE_ADDRESS', `nobody')dnl

define(`confDELAY_LA', `8')dnl

define(`confCONNECTION_RATE_WINDOW_SIZE', `60s')dnl

 

MAILER(`local')dnl

MAILER(`smtp')dnl

MAILER(`procmail')dnl

 

MAILER_DEFINITIONS

####################################

###   New Mailer specifications  ###

####################################

 

## Special flags! See

##      http://www.sendmail.org/~ca/email/doc8.10/op-sh-5.html#sh-5.4

## Note especially the absence of the "m" and "n" flags. THIS IS

## IMPORTANT: mm-handler assumes this behavior to avoid having to know

## too much about address parsing and other RFC-2822 mail details.

 

Mmailman,       P=/etc/mail/mm-handler, F=rDFMhlqSu, U=mailman:other,

                S=EnvFromL, R=EnvToL/HdrToL,

                A=mm-handler $h $u

 

---------------------------------------------------

 

# cat mailertable

mailman.symsoft.se      mailman:mailman.symsoft.se

 

 

Please help,

Kevin



From jjloose at yahoo.co.uk  Thu Feb  9 11:04:38 2006
From: jjloose at yahoo.co.uk (Jon Loose)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 10:04:38 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Servers
Message-ID: <20060209100438.65115.qmail@web25705.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Thanks for the help to date... still struggling with
the virtual domains configuration with
postfix/mailman, however.

I did what was suggested below...

>Since you haven't had MTA = 'Postfix', you've been
>using the default
>MTA = 'Manual' which just tells you what the aliases
>are and asks you
>to manually install them.

>If you now run bin/genaliases, it should create the
>data/aliases and
>data/virtual-mailman files containing data for all
>your lists, and run
>the postalias and postmap commands to create the .db
>files.

>Then you can update your Postfix config to use these
>files and not have
>to do the aliases manually in the future.

yet, mailman created data/aliases, but not
data/virtual-mailman.  I made a vain attempt with
"touch virtual-mailman", and then "genalias".  This
produced a virtual-mailman.db, but throws up errors in
the mail log because it is empty.

Also, I assume I create a list on the virtual domain
using newlist listname at domain2 ?

Any futher thoughts?

Thanks,

Jon


		
___________________________________________________________ 
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com


From netwiz at crc.id.au  Thu Feb  9 11:10:59 2006
From: netwiz at crc.id.au (Steven Haigh)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 21:10:59 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News -> Mail issues.
In-Reply-To: <0D5AC45A-B271-4704-9016-B2A34B94DFF5@crc.id.au>
References: <0D5AC45A-B271-4704-9016-B2A34B94DFF5@crc.id.au>
Message-ID: <22679.192.94.41.42.1139479859.squirrel@zeus.crc.id.au>

> Hi all,
>
> One of the lists I use has just broken for news posts to mailing
> list. It was working ok, then it died. If I send mail to the list, it
> appears in the newsgroup, however if I post in the newsgroup, it
> doesn't appear on the list - even though I have "gateway_to_mail = 1"
> set.
>
> I have this also set up on another mailing list, and newsgroup on the
> same server, and this seems to work ok. Same server, same settings.
> Anyone have any ideas on this one?
>

Just some more info to this - when looking at the news.notice file for
innd, I can see that the gate_news process actually connect to the news
server, and check for news in the groups specified - the problem is
however, that if there is new stuff in the newsgroups, it never gets sent
to one of the two mailing lists.

Anyone know how I can do some more debugging on this?


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Thu Feb  9 12:29:01 2006
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2006 06:29:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Privacy Options > Sender Filters
	>	non-memberfilters
In-Reply-To: <43E91639.9050807@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <PC17402006020713173004065cbb2454@Notebook>
	<43E91639.9050807@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <43EB277D.7030108@Media-Brokers.com>

>> Is it possible to reference a one-address-per-line text file for this 
>> filter?

> Not without modifying the source code.
 >
> One way you could accomplish this is to get the patch at
> <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103>.
> Then you could either modify the patch to get its whitelist from a
> file instead of another list, or you could create a separate list
> which is essentially turned off except that its membership could be
> the whitelist for the other lists.

Looks like this will work - thanks! But... I prefer to not apply custom 
patches if at all possible - is support for this planned for future 
releases? Seems like 'a good thing' to have, no?

Thanks again for the pointer...

-- 

Best regards,

Charles


From bob at bergey.net  Thu Feb  9 02:03:46 2006
From: bob at bergey.net (Bob Bergey)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2006 20:03:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirm setting not holding
Message-ID: <p06230906c010441ea5ef@[10.0.1.2]>

Under Privacy Options/Subscription Rules (Mailman 2.1.4) are the 
settings for either Confirm, Approve, or Confirm and Approve. On half 
a dozen of my lists, even though they're set for Confirm, the setting 
won't hold -- it keeps changing to Confirm and Approve. Anyone have 
any idea why?

Bob


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb  9 16:09:31 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 07:09:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Servers
In-Reply-To: <20060209100438.65115.qmail@web25705.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602090709310734669614fd@msapiro>

Jon Loose wrote:
>
>I did what was suggested below...
>
...
>
>>If you now run bin/genaliases, it should create the
>>data/aliases and
>>data/virtual-mailman files containing data for all
>>your lists, and run
>>the postalias and postmap commands to create the .db
>>files.
>
...
>
>yet, mailman created data/aliases, but not
>data/virtual-mailman.  I made a vain attempt with
>"touch virtual-mailman", and then "genalias".  This
>produced a virtual-mailman.db, but throws up errors in
>the mail log because it is empty.


In order for virtual-mailman to be created/updated, you must have a
list of virtual domains in mm_cfg.py like:

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['domain2', 'domain3']

(see <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html> for
what actually goes in this list - it could be just one domain or two
as above or more), AND you must have one or more Mailman lists with
host_name equal to one of the domains in
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS. Apparently you don't have both of these
conditions.


>Also, I assume I create a list on the virtual domain
>using newlist listname at domain2 ?


Yes, but contrary to intuition, domain2 in this case must be the URL
host of the list, not the email host unless they are the same.

There are also options in later versions of newlist to specify this
less counter-intuitively. See 'bin/newlist --help'

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb  9 16:17:49 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 07:17:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News -> Mail issues.
In-Reply-To: <22679.192.94.41.42.1139479859.squirrel@zeus.crc.id.au>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602090717490796be44d80d@msapiro>

Steven Haigh wrote:
>>
>
>Just some more info to this - when looking at the news.notice file for
>innd, I can see that the gate_news process actually connect to the news
>server, and check for news in the groups specified - the problem is
>however, that if there is new stuff in the newsgroups, it never gets sent
>to one of the two mailing lists.
>
>Anyone know how I can do some more debugging on this?

Check Mailman's error and fromusenet logs. If that doesn't show
anything, 'cp cron/gate_news cron/my_gate_news' and add some debugging
prints to my_gate_news and run it manually.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb  9 16:21:14 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 07:21:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Privacy Options > Sender
	Filters>	non-memberfilters
In-Reply-To: <43EB277D.7030108@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602090721140687741085dd@msapiro>

Charles Marcus wrote:
> >
>> One way you could accomplish this is to get the patch at
>> <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103>.
>
>Looks like this will work - thanks! But... I prefer to not apply custom 
>patches if at all possible - is support for this planned for future 
>releases? Seems like 'a good thing' to have, no?

As it says in the patch comments, this is a candidate for Mailman 2.2

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb  9 16:37:15 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 07:37:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation problems
In-Reply-To: <C262B8ECE515D348BF758C93F12F6F7602A16C43@KLMAIL.ad.kuntaliitto.fi>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602090737150390dfa7e175@msapiro>

Niemi Hannu wrote:
>
>After evaluating the problem again it seems that my first impression was a
>bit erroneous (read I didn't debug efficiently enough):
>
>It seems that confirming via web page works, but only if one hasn't tried to do it by mail. It seems that the mail removes the confirmation from the pending confirmations, but doesn't do the trick.


What are the subscription rules? is moderator approval also required?
Is this why the confirmation by email appears to not work?


>And after that the web page confirmation doesn't really have anything to confirm against.
>
>The error log gives the following information:
>
>-----------------8<--------------8<-----------------
>
>Feb 08 21:26:11 2006 (29601) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 9] Bad file =
>descriptor
>Feb 08 21:26:11 2006 (29601) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 110, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 160, in _onefile
>    keepqueued =3D self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/OutgoingRunner.py", line 74, in _dis=
>pose
>    self._func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py", line 180, in proc=
>ess
>    mm_cfg.SMTP_LOG_EVERY_MESSAGE[1], kws=3Dd)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Syslog.py", line 49, in write_ex
>    logf =3D self._logfiles[kind] =3D StampedLogger(kind)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py", line 52, in __i=
>nit__
>    Logger.__init__(self, category, nofail, immediate)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 49, in __init__
>    self.__get_f()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 75, in __get_f
>    _logexc(self, e)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.py", line 22, in _logexc
>    sys.__stderr__.write('Logging error: %s\n' % logger)
>IOError: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor
>
>Feb 08 21:26:11 2006 (29601) SHUNTING: 1139426770.15838+256c6fef5c6868ee41812a6ec8d71a9d1da73730

Do (watch out for folding)

bin/show_qfiles
qfiles/shunt/1139426770.15838+256c6fef5c6868ee41812a6ec8d71a9d1da73730.pck

And see what's in the shunted message. Unless you have a large number
of these, I don't know what happened to cause this.

What the trace shows is the SMTP delivery handler successfully
delivered the message to the outgoing MTA and was trying to log that
fact in the 'smtp' log, but for some reason logging encountered an
exception (I think) and tried to write that to stderr which wasn't
available, so the error logged here is the inability to write to
stderr.

Also, the actual message in this case that was shunted, should have
been successfully delivered anyway, so this seems to have nothing to
do with the confirmation problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tsciortino at gmail.com  Thu Feb  9 16:44:46 2006
From: tsciortino at gmail.com (Tony Sciortino)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 10:44:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <7dc572f0602090744m242f1328jdf7be70a3ad0d414@mail.gmail.com>

unsubscribe


From grundy_tom at hotmail.com  Thu Feb  9 17:29:42 2006
From: grundy_tom at hotmail.com (Tom Grundy)
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2006 08:29:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] why is plain text option (removes MIME/HTML)
	only available
In-Reply-To: <878xslnvwv.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <BAY106-F262212F26906BC44A70B4EF5030@phx.gbl>

Thanks for the replies - a better yet subjsect may have been ' how do you 
apply content filtering on a per-user basis'.  Basically we want to allow 
crusty old non-MIME or non-HTML browsers and clients to still view our nice 
fancy html emails instead of  the mime and html source code.
Sounds like two separate lists (a mime list and a plain-text list) is 
probably the way to go.
-Tom




From sfeng at stanford.edu  Thu Feb  9 18:58:37 2006
From: sfeng at stanford.edu (Susan Feng)
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2006 09:58:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error log -  Failed before cPickle:
Message-ID: <1139507917.9722.141.camel@hoss.stanford.edu>


Hi,

I noticed the following messages in mailman error log every time when a
list is accessed, for example:

/usr/local/mailman/lists/email-team/config.pck.tmp.mailman.Stanford.EDU.13813
Feb 09 09:49:38 2006 (13810) Failed before cPickle:
/usr/local/mailman/lists/email-team/config.pck.tmp.mailman.Stanford.EDU.13810
Feb 09 09:50:38 2006 (13813) Failed before cPickle:

It doesn't seem to be harmful, because all operations seem normal.
The permission for the list is:

 drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman mailman 4096 Feb  9 09:49 email-team/

and under email-team:

-rw-rw-r--  1 www-data mailman    24 Jan 21 08:55 request.pck
-rw-rw----  1 mailman  mailman 12595 Feb  9 09:49 digest.mbox
-rw-rw----  1 mailman  mailman  6184 Feb  9 09:49 config.pck.last
-rw-rw----  1 mailman  mailman  6184 Feb  9 09:49 config.pck

What does the error mean? Should I worry?

Thanks!

Susan





From tomnaugh at gmail.com  Thu Feb  9 19:39:33 2006
From: tomnaugh at gmail.com (Tom Kavanaugh)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 10:39:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Redirect all -bounce emails
Message-ID: <98a90c220602091039p24bd4351y5b15bda063efa291@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Folks,

I recently setup a mailman server with ver 2.1.6, and I am liking it so far.

Since I am not with the IT Team of my organization,  I am working around
some mailman problems and this is where I need some ideas.

I setup a few mail lists (including default mailman list) in 
name.comdomain, and worked with my IT folks to redirect <maillist>@
name.com to my mail server <mailist>@mine.name.com
I do get a few <maillist-name>-bounce at name.com emails, and I would like to
re-direct all these emails to mailman at name.com (or mailman at mine.name.com)
Does someone have ideas how to accomplish this?

I do not administer the company's mail servers.
Folks here are not open to the list.name.com domain idea, for legacy
reasons.
I have a bunch of /etc/aliases entries for each of my mail lists on
mine.name.com server.
Is there a way I can use these alaises to re-firect <maillist-bounce>@
name.com to mailman at name.com

Any help / ideas are appreciated.

Thanks!
Tom


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Feb  9 23:03:19 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 16:03:19 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems sending to list
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602091403s52ae5068u3a46c2ba4ee15308@mail.gmail.com>

I have a relatively small list (13 recipients, several of which are mm
lists on the same box, but they work fine). I'm using sendmail, and
/etc/aliases is configured to pass the email to procmail with a
special file which matches the ^TO_ metatarget to dispatch the emails
to the appropriate mailman command (mailman post <list>) after running
some spam filtering and whitelisting stuff on them.

Any time a message is sent to this list (the 'announce' list), mailman
appears to receive it, because it generates 3 messages (ceil(13/5)=3;
they are all at the same site). However, the messages are addressed to
announce instead of being addressed to the recipients. Mailman
correctly ignores the three duplicates. The problem here is that since
the messages are addressed to announce instead of the correct users...
nobody receives messages sent to the list.

This happens even when /etc/aliases is changed to send directly to
mailman again instead of using procmail. The only change since the
last time this was working is a user was removed from the list (using
the remove_members command).

Any advice on where to start looking for the problem would be greatly
appreciated.

--
- Patrick Bogen


From stefan.fuhrmann at no-panic-systems.de  Fri Feb 10 00:47:43 2006
From: stefan.fuhrmann at no-panic-systems.de (Stefan Fuhrmann)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 00:47:43 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + apache2
In-Reply-To: <000101c62c0a$2cc7bb20$0107a8c0@pp.local>
References: <000101c62c0a$2cc7bb20$0107a8c0@pp.local>
Message-ID: <200602100047.52921.stefan.fuhrmann@no-panic-systems.de>

Am Dienstag, 7. Februar 2006 18:16 schrieben Sie:
> Stefan Fuhrmann wrote:
> >Am Dienstag, 7. Februar 2006 02:45 schrieben Sie:
> >> BTW, I'm not sure why you have the 'cgi-bin/' in the above URL,
> >> Normally, if the ScriptAlias says '/mailman/' the URL uould just be
> >> <http://domain.tld/mailman/create>
> >
> >When I browse this then I get "file not found"
> >dont know what to do here!
>
> In a prior post you said:
> >I set in Vhosts_ispconfig.conf (where the virutual hosts are created)
> > >"ScriptAlias /mailman/ /var/www/web1/cgi-bin/"
>
> If that directive actually applies to domain.tld, then (assuming that
> /var/www/web1/cgi-bin/ is the directory that contains Mailman's
> wrappers) the URL <http://domain.tld/mailman/create> should cause
> Apache to execute the "create" wrapper.
Debian installs mailman to /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman. I linked it 
to /var/www/web1/cgi-bin/ 
ScriptAlias is set to 
ScripAlias /mailman/ /var/www/web1/cgi-bin/

this gives the aboves errors

>
> Now it is clear that you do get to Mailman when you go to
> <http://domain.tld/cgi-bin/mailman/create> so there is likely some
> other Alias or ScriptAlias that handles that URL.
>
> What is in Apache's error_log for the attempt to get
> <http://domain.tld/mailman/create>
thats it what is created in apache2 error.log  when I try to access the URL:

"[Fri Feb 10 00:13:00 2006] [notice] Apache/2.0.54 (Debian GNU/Linux) 
mod_python/3.1.3 Python/2.3.5 PHP/4.3.10-16 mod_ssl/2.0.54 OpenSSL/0.9.7e 
mod_perl/1.999.21 Perl/v5.8.4 configured -- resuming normal operations
[Fri Feb 10 00:31:23 2006] [notice] caught SIGTERM, shutting down
[Fri Feb 10 00:31:24 2006] [notice] suEXEC mechanism enabled 
(wrapper: /usr/lib/apache2/suexec2)
[Fri Feb 10 00:31:25 2006] [notice] mod_python: Creating 20 session mutexes 
based on 20 max processes and 0 max threads.
[Fri Feb 10 00:31:31 2006] [notice] Apache/2.0.54 (Debian GNU/Linux) 
mod_python/3.1.3 Python/2.3.5 PHP/4.3.10-16 mod_ssl/2.0.54 OpenSSL/0.9.7e 
mod_perl/1.999.21 Perl/v5.8.4 configured -- resuming normal operations"


>
> In any case, this is not the cause of the "we hit a bug" you get when
> you go to <http://domain.tld/cgi-bin/mailman/create>. That's a Mailman
> message and we need Mailman's error log for that.

I had a look in /var/log/mailman/error -> empty
in /var/log/mailman/qrunner: 
"eb 09 06:27:58 2006 (929) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.  Reopening 
logs.
Feb 09 06:27:59 2006 (930) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.  Reopening logs.
Feb 09 06:27:59 2006 (918) ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.  Reopening logs.
Feb 09 06:27:59 2006 (919) BounceRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.  Reopening 
logs.
Feb 09 06:27:59 2006 (920) CommandRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.  Reopening 
logs.
Feb 09 06:27:59 2006 (922) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.  Reopening 
logs.
Feb 09 06:27:59 2006 (924) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.  Reopening 
logs.
Feb 09 06:27:59 2006 (923) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.  Reopening logs.
Feb 09 06:28:00 2006 (917) Master watcher caught SIGHUP.  Re-opening log 
files."

but this is not the real log file, or?

I looked also multiple times through the files you meant but was not able to 
find something what is discribing a path to a log file! So, where is it?

tia

stefan
~


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From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 10 02:10:15 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 17:10:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems sending to list
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00602091403s52ae5068u3a46c2ba4ee15308@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060209171015007868c9005d@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>I have a relatively small list (13 recipients, several of which are mm
>lists on the same box, but they work fine). I'm using sendmail, and
>/etc/aliases is configured to pass the email to procmail with a
>special file which matches the ^TO_ metatarget to dispatch the emails
>to the appropriate mailman command (mailman post <list>) after running
>some spam filtering and whitelisting stuff on them.

What are you doing about the other list addresses like
announce-bounces, announce-owner, etc. Are you piping them to 'mailman
bounces list', 'mailman owner <list>', etc.

Also, have you checked to see if the post is waiting moderator approval?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From daevid at daevid.com  Fri Feb 10 02:04:53 2006
From: daevid at daevid.com (Daevid Vincent)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 17:04:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unknown password on new list...
Message-ID: <20060210013524.D35621E4006@bag.python.org>

I just set up a new list, and must have fat fingered the password. 
How can I change it since I cannot log into the GUI?

I see 'mmsitepass', but it changes a master password for all lists. I don't
want that. I only want to change for ONE specific list.

Also, this seems kind of short-sighted that it takes only one password on
the command line and hides the typing. Why doesn't mailman ask for a
confirmation of the password, and keep re-prompting for a new one if they do
not match?



From daevid at daevid.com  Fri Feb 10 02:08:33 2006
From: daevid at daevid.com (Daevid Vincent)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 17:08:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unknown password on new list...
In-Reply-To: <E881FC53D31A4F40A6604E37C19037A954E62C@BRAKA.lockdownnetworks.com>
Message-ID: <20060210013904.0EEDF1E4006@bag.python.org>

Just to clarify, I'm not completely retarded. Yes, an email is sent, however
it says:

Your mailing list password is:

 

    cand^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hvegas 

And obviously, when I try to type that into the GUI, it fails.

I've also tried the following combinations with no luck:

	cand
	candvegas
	vegas


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daevid Vincent [mailto:daevid at daevid.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 5:05 PM
> To: 'Mailman Users'
> Subject: Unknown password on new list...
> 
> I just set up a new list, and must have fat fingered the password. 
> How can I change it since I cannot log into the GUI?
> 
> I see 'mmsitepass', but it changes a master password for all 
> lists. I don't want that. I only want to change for ONE specific list.
> 
> Also, this seems kind of short-sighted that it takes only one 
> password on the command line and hides the typing. Why 
> doesn't mailman ask for a confirmation of the password, and 
> keep re-prompting for a new one if they do not match?
> 



From justbrits at comcast.net  Fri Feb 10 02:49:35 2006
From: justbrits at comcast.net (JustBrits_com)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 19:49:35 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fw:  (no subject)
Message-ID: <00c201c62de4$3ece03c0$6401a8c0@ActualOffice>

This HAS to be my most FAVORITE rec'd mail in over a DECADE, folks!!!

I do handle 5 Mailman Lists and am on anoth 8 or 9 or so INCLUDING this one.

One of not only my pet peeves but mantra is:  KEEP the instructions that
come with....!!
Your know --:)

But to see the below HERE, is UN-real!!!

Yo Tony!!  Go to the line just above (in the trailer) that says Security
??!!??

Thanks, folks!!
</rant>

Ed

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tony Sciortino" <tsciortino at gmail.com>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 9:44 AM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)


> unsubscribe
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/justbrits%40comcast.net
>
> Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Fri Feb 10 03:43:04 2006
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 11:43:04 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unknown password on new list...
In-Reply-To: <20060210013524.D35621E4006@bag.python.org>
References: <20060210013524.D35621E4006@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <43EBFDB8.3090201@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Daevid Vincent wrote:
> I just set up a new list, and must have fat fingered the password. 
> How can I change it since I cannot log into the GUI?

You can use the master site password to log in the admin page and change 
the list password.  If you can not use GUI for any other reason, then 
use bin/withlist to change the password with a little trick like this:

% bin/withlist test
Loading list test (unlocked)
The variable `m' is the mm-test MailList instance
 >>> import sha
 >>> p = 'newpass'
 >>> cp = sha.new(p).hexdigest()
 >>> m.Lock()
 >>> m.password = cp
 >>> m.Save()
 >>> m.Unlock()
 >>>
Finalizing
%
> 
> I see 'mmsitepass', but it changes a master password for all lists. I don't
> want that. I only want to change for ONE specific list.
> 
> Also, this seems kind of short-sighted that it takes only one password on
> the command line and hides the typing. Why doesn't mailman ask for a
> confirmation of the password, and keep re-prompting for a new one if they do
> not match?
> 
-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 10 04:56:31 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 21:56:31 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems sending to list
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060209171015007868c9005d@msapiro>
References: <6fbe3da00602091403s52ae5068u3a46c2ba4ee15308@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC174020060209171015007868c9005d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602091956r9416cdj3222572932e8ce74@mail.gmail.com>

The aliases for the other addresses for announce are actually disabled
("it worked that way before")- it's been thus since I've been handling
this server (about a year and a half). If you think this might have
something to do with the problem, I can re-enable them...

Since this list exists primarily just to propagate messages to
sub-lists, there's no membership or moderator issues to worry about.
Non-member messages are allowed (and I have checked; the messages are
not waiting for approval).

On 2/9/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
> >I have a relatively small list (13 recipients, several of which are mm
> >lists on the same box, but they work fine). I'm using sendmail, and
> >/etc/aliases is configured to pass the email to procmail with a
> >special file which matches the ^TO_ metatarget to dispatch the emails
> >to the appropriate mailman command (mailman post <list>) after running
> >some spam filtering and whitelisting stuff on them.
>
> What are you doing about the other list addresses like
> announce-bounces, announce-owner, etc. Are you piping them to 'mailman
> bounces list', 'mailman owner <list>', etc.
>
> Also, have you checked to see if the post is waiting moderator approval?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


--
- Patrick Bogen


From stefan.fuhrmann at no-panic-systems.de  Fri Feb 10 13:17:01 2006
From: stefan.fuhrmann at no-panic-systems.de (Stefan Fuhrmann)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 13:17:01 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + apache2 (solved)
In-Reply-To: <000001c62dd5$087ef5e0$0107a8c0@pp.local>
References: <000101c62c0a$2cc7bb20$0107a8c0@pp.local>
	<000001c62dd5$087ef5e0$0107a8c0@pp.local>
Message-ID: <200602101317.11401.stefan.fuhrmann@no-panic-systems.de>

Hello all,
Im lucky to tell you now that it works:

http://www.howtoforge.com/forums/showthread.php?t=777&highlight=ispconfig+mailman


point then the brower to:
http://domain.tld/cgi-bin/mailman/create

should work now.

thanks

Stefan 




> Am Dienstag, 7. Februar 2006 18:16 schrieben Sie:
> > Stefan Fuhrmann wrote:
> > >Am Dienstag, 7. Februar 2006 02:45 schrieben Sie:
> > >> BTW, I'm not sure why you have the 'cgi-bin/' in the above URL,
> > >> Normally, if the ScriptAlias says '/mailman/' the URL uould just be
> > >> <http://domain.tld/mailman/create>
> > >
> > >When I browse this then I get "file not found"
> > >dont know what to do here!
> >
> > In a prior post you said:
> > >I set in Vhosts_ispconfig.conf (where the virutual hosts are created)
> > >
> > > >"ScriptAlias /mailman/ /var/www/web1/cgi-bin/"
> >
> > If that directive actually applies to domain.tld, then (assuming that
> > /var/www/web1/cgi-bin/ is the directory that contains Mailman's
> > wrappers) the URL <http://domain.tld/mailman/create> should cause
> > Apache to execute the "create" wrapper.
>
> Debian installs mailman to /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman. I linked it
> to /var/www/web1/cgi-bin/
> ScriptAlias is set to
> ScripAlias /mailman/ /var/www/web1/cgi-bin/
>
> this gives the aboves errors
>
> > Now it is clear that you do get to Mailman when you go to
> > <http://domain.tld/cgi-bin/mailman/create> so there is likely some
> > other Alias or ScriptAlias that handles that URL.
> >
> > What is in Apache's error_log for the attempt to get
> > <http://domain.tld/mailman/create>
>
> thats it what is created in apache2 error.log  when I try to access the
> URL:
>
> "[Fri Feb 10 00:13:00 2006] [notice] Apache/2.0.54 (Debian GNU/Linux)
> mod_python/3.1.3 Python/2.3.5 PHP/4.3.10-16 mod_ssl/2.0.54 OpenSSL/0.9.7e
> mod_perl/1.999.21 Perl/v5.8.4 configured -- resuming normal operations
> [Fri Feb 10 00:31:23 2006] [notice] caught SIGTERM, shutting down
> [Fri Feb 10 00:31:24 2006] [notice] suEXEC mechanism enabled
> (wrapper: /usr/lib/apache2/suexec2)
> [Fri Feb 10 00:31:25 2006] [notice] mod_python: Creating 20 session mutexes
> based on 20 max processes and 0 max threads.
> [Fri Feb 10 00:31:31 2006] [notice] Apache/2.0.54 (Debian GNU/Linux)
> mod_python/3.1.3 Python/2.3.5 PHP/4.3.10-16 mod_ssl/2.0.54 OpenSSL/0.9.7e
> mod_perl/1.999.21 Perl/v5.8.4 configured -- resuming normal operations"
>
> > In any case, this is not the cause of the "we hit a bug" you get when
> > you go to <http://domain.tld/cgi-bin/mailman/create>. That's a Mailman
> > message and we need Mailman's error log for that.
>
> I had a look in /var/log/mailman/error -> empty
> in /var/log/mailman/qrunner:
> "eb 09 06:27:58 2006 (929) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.  Reopening
> logs.
> Feb 09 06:27:59 2006 (930) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.  Reopening
> logs. Feb 09 06:27:59 2006 (918) ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP. 
> Reopening logs. Feb 09 06:27:59 2006 (919) BounceRunner qrunner caught
> SIGHUP.  Reopening logs.
> Feb 09 06:27:59 2006 (920) CommandRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.  Reopening
> logs.
> Feb 09 06:27:59 2006 (922) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.  Reopening
> logs.
> Feb 09 06:27:59 2006 (924) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.  Reopening
> logs.
> Feb 09 06:27:59 2006 (923) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.  Reopening
> logs. Feb 09 06:28:00 2006 (917) Master watcher caught SIGHUP.  Re-opening
> log files."
>
> but this is not the real log file, or?
>
> I looked also multiple times through the files you meant but was not able
> to find something what is discribing a path to a log file! So, where is it?
>
> tia
>
> stefan
> ~

-- 
***********************************************************************
no-panic-systems

Stefan Fuhrmann
H3,7
68159 Mannheim
Germany
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
fon: +49.621.1568801
mailto: stefan.fuhrmann at no-panic-systems.de
web: www.no-panic-systems.de
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
PGP- public key
http://pgpkeys.pca.dfn.de:80/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x383884BB213EB1C1

PGP- fingerprint
FE34 1D07 34E3 AEC6 32A2 7057 3838 84BB 213E B1C1
************************************************************************
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From jjloose at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Feb 10 19:37:36 2006
From: jjloose at yahoo.co.uk (Jon Loose)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 18:37:36 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Servers
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602090709310734669614fd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060210183736.68032.qmail@web25705.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

OK, I am sure I am almost there!

I now have data/aliases and data/mailman-virtual
functioning correctly, in that when lists are created
or deleted, the appropriate alias entries are placed
into these files.  Thanks for getting me this far!

I have run into a further problem, however:

When I send a message to a test list on the primary
domain, it bounces with "listname at primarydomain. 
listname:unknown user".

When I send a message to a test list on a virtual
domain, it bounces with "listname2 at virtualdomain. 
listname2:unknown user".

Since aliases seem to be updating properly, this seems
odd.

Postfix is, I believe, properly connected to mailman,
with (in main.cf): 

virtual_maps=hash:/usr/postfix/virtual,
hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
(NB I am assuming that I do not also update
virtual_domain_maps)

and:

alias_database=hash:/etc/postfix/aliases,
hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
(NB I am assuming that I do not also update
alias_maps)

I think I have the mm_cfg.py right, too, with:

MTA='Postfix'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS=['domain2']
add_virtualhost('www.domain2.org','domain2.org')

added.

Two final points:
1 - Before I tried setting up virtual domains, the
system worked fine on a single domain, without any
"unknown user" errors.
2 - Given the above, aliases for the special "mailman"
list are contained in both /etc/postfix/aliases and
/usr/local/mailman/aliases.  This doesn't seem to make
any difference, though I am unsure.

I hope this is a clear explanation - any help much
appreciated.

Jon


--- Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Jon Loose wrote:
> >
> >I did what was suggested below...
> >
> ...
> >
> >>If you now run bin/genaliases, it should create
> the
> >>data/aliases and
> >>data/virtual-mailman files containing data for all
> >>your lists, and run
> >>the postalias and postmap commands to create the
> .db
> >>files.
> >
> ...
> >
> >yet, mailman created data/aliases, but not
> >data/virtual-mailman.  I made a vain attempt with
> >"touch virtual-mailman", and then "genalias".  This
> >produced a virtual-mailman.db, but throws up errors
> in
> >the mail log because it is empty.
> 
> 
> In order for virtual-mailman to be created/updated,
> you must have a
> list of virtual domains in mm_cfg.py like:
> 
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['domain2',
> 'domain3']
> 
> (see
>
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html>
> for
> what actually goes in this list - it could be just
> one domain or two
> as above or more), AND you must have one or more
> Mailman lists with
> host_name equal to one of the domains in
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS. Apparently you don't
> have both of these
> conditions.
> 
> 
> >Also, I assume I create a list on the virtual
> domain
> >using newlist listname at domain2 ?
> 
> 
> Yes, but contrary to intuition, domain2 in this case
> must be the URL
> host of the list, not the email host unless they are
> the same.
> 
> There are also options in later versions of newlist
> to specify this
> less counter-intuitively. See 'bin/newlist --help'
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is
> for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use
> your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 



		
___________________________________________________________ 
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com


From damico.1 at osu.edu  Fri Feb 10 21:05:26 2006
From: damico.1 at osu.edu (Joe Damico)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 15:05:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change of server name -- sendmail problem
Message-ID: <200602102005.k1AK5QT1003225@defang19.it.ohio-state.edu>

Hello:

 

We have changed the name of our Solaris server.  I made the necessary
changes to /etc/host and the other associated host files. I ran the
fix_url.py procedure for all of the list names and I changed the mm_cfg.py
file so that the new host name appears for both DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and
DEFAULT_URL_HOST. I re-booted the machine and restarted sendmail, mailman,
and the apache web server.  I have no trouble getting to all of the lists
via the web, but mail is not being delivered to the lists.

 

It appears that something needs to be changed to make sendmail handle the
mail correctly. Do you have any suggestions?

 

Thanks,

Joe

 

The error message looks like this (joe is the name of one of the mailman
lists that we are using for testing.)

 

-------- Error message text from bounced mail -------------------

 

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----

<joe at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>

    (reason: 550 5.7.1 <joe at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>... Relaying
denied)

 

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----

... while talking to [128.146.216.138]:

 

>>> DATA

 

<<< 550 5.7.1 <joe at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>... Relaying denied

550 5.1.1 <joe at lists.service.ohio-state.edu>... User unknown

 



From damico.1 at osu.edu  Fri Feb 10 21:54:37 2006
From: damico.1 at osu.edu (Joe Damico)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 15:54:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change of server name -- sendmail problem --
	Resolved!
Message-ID: <200602102054.k1AKsaQv028205@defang19.it.ohio-state.edu>

Hello,

 

You can ignore my previous message (from 3:12 PM EST today).

 

We had a local network problem because there were two hosts named "lists" in
different domains.

We have resolved the problem

 

Thanks,

 

Joe



From acravens at uen.org  Fri Feb 10 21:35:56 2006
From: acravens at uen.org (Andy Cravens)
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 13:35:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrading - need info on old version
Message-ID: <43ECF92C.9080505@uen.org>

We are in the process of upgrading mailman and have to take some 
intermediate steps to get there without affecting our customers.  I'd 
like to know if there is a way to configure mailman 1.0 so that any mail 
sent by mailman would look like it came from listname at lists.domain.com 
instead of the current setup of listname at domain.com.

We are also running postfix on this server and I thought about changing 
postfix's conf to accomplish this by doing myorigin=lists.domain.com

However, I found this is not a good solution because there are several 
mail services running on this old server.  I only want mailman list mail 
to look like it came from lists.domain.com and any other mail needs to 
continue to look like it came from username at domain.com.

So... I'd like to find out if this change can be configured in mailman 
1.0.  I have already modified each list and set the "Host name this list 
prefers" to lists.domain.com.  This last change seems to take care of 
any references to the list name that are contained in the body of the 
message.  However, I also need the header information to show it came 
from lists.domain.com in case a user replies to a message.

Anybody know if there is a way to configure mailman 1.0 so that it looks 
like it's coming from lists.domain.com?

--
Andy



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Feb 11 18:55:40 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 09:55:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + apache2
In-Reply-To: <200602100047.52921.stefan.fuhrmann@no-panic-systems.de>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602110955400406eddba55e@msapiro>

Stefan Fuhrmann wrote:
>
>I had a look in /var/log/mailman/error -> empty
>in /var/log/mailman/qrunner:
>"eb 09 06:27:58 2006 (929) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.  Reopening
>logs.
>Feb 09 06:27:59 2006 (930) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGHUP.  Reopening logs.
<snip>
>
>but this is not the real log file, or?
>
>I looked also multiple times through the files you meant but was not able to
>find something what is discribing a path to a log file! So, where is it?

I know you've subsequently posted that you've solved your issue, but
for future reference, since the above /var/log/mailman/qrunner log is
being currently written, all your Mailman logs should be the ones in
the same /var/log/mailman/ directory.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Feb 11 19:29:14 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 10:29:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems sending to list
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00602091956r9416cdj3222572932e8ce74@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602111029140687eddba65d@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>The aliases for the other addresses for announce are actually disabled
>("it worked that way before")- it's been thus since I've been handling
>this server (about a year and a half). If you think this might have
>something to do with the problem, I can re-enable them...


I was thinking that perhaps the post was generating a message to
announce-owner which was misdirected back to announce, but that
doesn't seem to be the case.

Check Mailman's logs. In particular the 'post'; and 'smtp' logs to see
a bit more about what is actually being sent by mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Feb 11 20:51:09 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 11:51:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Servers
In-Reply-To: <20060210183736.68032.qmail@web25705.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602111151090203eddba474@msapiro>

Jon Loose wrote:
>
>alias_database=hash:/etc/postfix/aliases,
>hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
>(NB I am assuming that I do not also update
>alias_maps)


Actually, I think you want hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases in
alias_maps and NOT in alias_database. See
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html>



>I think I have the mm_cfg.py right, too, with:
>
>MTA='Postfix'
>POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS=['domain2']
>add_virtualhost('www.domain2.org','domain2.org')


These look good.


>Two final points:
>1 - Before I tried setting up virtual domains, the
>system worked fine on a single domain, without any
>"unknown user" errors.


See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/postfix-virtual.html>,
particularly the second paragraph.


>2 - Given the above, aliases for the special "mailman"
>list are contained in both /etc/postfix/aliases and
>/usr/local/mailman/aliases.  This doesn't seem to make
>any difference, though I am unsure.


This will cause problems eventually if the ownership of the two
aliases.db files is different. See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-February/049158.html>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Feb 11 22:20:30 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 13:20:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail and mm-handler woes
In-Reply-To: <200602090915.k199Ff4o013338@my.symsoft.se>
Message-ID: <PC174020060211132030079668697a7a@msapiro>

Kevin McNamee wrote:
>
>I have followed the mailman instruction and mm-handler.readme and I can
>administer everything via web and receive confirmation emails, except I get
>"User unknown" when I try send to my testlist at mailman.symsoft.se. From
>reading the archives it suggests that sendmail is not recognising mm-handler
>as the recipient of mail to the mailman.symsoft.se domain. 


I always suggest that people get things going in the standard way
before trying add-ons like mm-handler.

 
I didn't look at your sendmail.mc because I don't understand that stuff.


># cat mailertable
>
>mailman.symsoft.se      mailman:mailman.symsoft.se


Did you follow the implicit instruction in the last sentence of step 5
in mm-handler.readme?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Feb 11 22:52:25 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 13:52:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error log -  Failed before cPickle:
In-Reply-To: <1139507917.9722.141.camel@hoss.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <PC174020060211135225087568697ac4@msapiro>

Susan Feng wrote:
>
>I noticed the following messages in mailman error log every time when a
>list is accessed, for example:
>
>/usr/local/mailman/lists/email-team/config.pck.tmp.mailman.Stanford.EDU.13813
>Feb 09 09:49:38 2006 (13810) Failed before cPickle:
>/usr/local/mailman/lists/email-team/config.pck.tmp.mailman.Stanford.EDU.13810
>Feb 09 09:50:38 2006 (13813) Failed before cPickle:
>
>It doesn't seem to be harmful, because all operations seem normal.
>The permission for the list is:
>
> drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman mailman 4096 Feb  9 09:49 email-team/
>
>and under email-team:
>
>-rw-rw-r--  1 www-data mailman    24 Jan 21 08:55 request.pck
>-rw-rw----  1 mailman  mailman 12595 Feb  9 09:49 digest.mbox
>-rw-rw----  1 mailman  mailman  6184 Feb  9 09:49 config.pck.last
>-rw-rw----  1 mailman  mailman  6184 Feb  9 09:49 config.pck
>
>What does the error mean? Should I worry?


I don't know what the error means. I couldn't find the message anywhere
in Mailman 2.1.7 or in Python 2.4.

I might be somewhat concerned since the above shows your list's
config.pck last updated at 09:49 and there was one of these messages
at 9:50:38, so what was happening then.

I'm also, curious about why the PIDs in the file names don't match the
PID of the process doing the logging, at least not in every case. Or
maybe they do. Maybe you have shown us the end of entry 1, all of
entry 2 and the start of entry 3.

Basically, here's what happens when a list is saved (__save() in
MailList.py). There are three file names:

fname = config.pck
fname_last = config.pck.last and
fname_tmp = config.pck.tmp.<hostname>.<PID> which in your case becomes
fname_tmp = config.pck.tmp.mailman.Stanford.EDU.ppppp where ppppp is
the PID of the process doing the save.

The save consists of
1. open fname_tmp
2. call cPickle to pickle and dump the list to fname_tmp
3. if IOError write to the error log a message that begins
   "Failed config.pck write, retaining old state." and remove
   fname_tmp.
   else
4. remove fname_last
5. link fname to fname_last
6. rename fname_tmp fname

So apparently, your list is being saved successfully at least some of
the time, but I would try to find where those messages are coming from.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Leo.Florendo at mvla.net  Sat Feb 11 23:10:12 2006
From: Leo.Florendo at mvla.net (Leo Florendo)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 14:10:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Modifying Default Messages
In-Reply-To: <C0139C1E.C11D%Leo.Florendo@mvla.net>
Message-ID: <C013A0C4.C124%Leo.Florendo@mvla.net>

How do I modify (not prepend to) the DEFAULT message (or any default message
in Mailman) below which is received after confirmation of a list
subscription?

-------------------------------------

Welcome to the xxxxxxx at mvla.net mailing list!

To post to this list, send your email to:

  xxxxxxx at mvla.net

General information about the mailing list is at:

  https://mvla.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xxxxxx

If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to
or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your
subscription page at:

  https://mvla.net/cgi-bin/mailman/options/xxxxxx/leo.florendo%40mvla.net


You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to:

  xxxxxx-request at mvla.net

with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the
quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions.

You must know your password to change your options (including changing
the password, itself) or to unsubscribe.  It is:

  *****************

Normally, Mailman will remind you of your mvla.net mailing
list passwords once every month, although you can disable this if you
prefer.  This reminder will also include instructions on how to
unsubscribe or change your account options.  There is also a button on
your options page that will email your current password to you.

------ End of Forwarded Message



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Sun Feb 12 00:43:25 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 17:43:25 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems sending to list
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602111029140687eddba65d@msapiro>
References: <6fbe3da00602091956r9416cdj3222572932e8ce74@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200602111029140687eddba65d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602111543r2afaecc0ge5f023a948ccd82b@mail.gmail.com>

Post shows my message sent to the list received properly. SMTP shows
that it delivered to recipients. (If exact messages would be helpful,
let me know and I'll grab them from the logs. These reports are from
memory, but I looked at the various logs several times before
resorting to asking for help. :)

On 2/11/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
> >The aliases for the other addresses for announce are actually disabled
> >("it worked that way before")- it's been thus since I've been handling
> >this server (about a year and a half). If you think this might have
> >something to do with the problem, I can re-enable them...
>
>
> I was thinking that perhaps the post was generating a message to
> announce-owner which was misdirected back to announce, but that
> doesn't seem to be the case.
>
> Check Mailman's logs. In particular the 'post'; and 'smtp' logs to see
> a bit more about what is actually being sent by mailman.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


--
- Patrick Bogen


From tmz at pobox.com  Sun Feb 12 02:33:36 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 20:33:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Modifying Default Messages
In-Reply-To: <C013A0C4.C124%Leo.Florendo@mvla.net>
References: <C0139C1E.C11D%Leo.Florendo@mvla.net>
	<C013A0C4.C124%Leo.Florendo@mvla.net>
Message-ID: <20060212013336.GB3026@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Leo Florendo wrote:
> How do I modify (not prepend to) the DEFAULT message (or any default message
> in Mailman) below which is received after confirmation of a list
> subscription?

The welcome message template is called subscribeack.txt and is
installed in $prefix/mailman/templates/en/subscribeack.txt.

If you want to change this message for all users of your site, create
$prefix/mailman/templates/site/en/ and copy subscribeack.txt there,
then edit it.  This will prevent your changes from being wiped out
when you upgrade Mailman.

You can also customize the message on a per list or per domain basis.
Check the archives of this list for more details (not sure off the top
of my head if there is a FAQ entry for this or not).  A search for
templates ought to bring up any relevant entries if there are.

- -- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
To think contrary to one's era is heroism.  But to speak against it is
madness.
    -- Eugene Ionesco

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Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkPukHAmGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1oJJACeIWpC0K5y3xF2+Y9c+wsLOKmS/c4AoJJ43VXh
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=qa/F
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb 12 03:18:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 18:18:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems sending to list
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00602111543r2afaecc0ge5f023a948ccd82b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602111818560156741083f4@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>Post shows my message sent to the list received properly.


Actually, 'post' log entries say that the message was not only
'received' by Mailman, but that it made it all the way through and was
sent out.


>SMTP shows
>that it delivered to recipients. (If exact messages would be helpful,
>let me know and I'll grab them from the logs.


This means that the outgoing message was successfully passed to and
accepted by the MTA. It is a matter of faith that the recipients of
the message as sent to the MTA are in fact the list members who should
receive it. At this point, it's up to the MTA to deliver it, and if we
accept that the recipient list given to the MTA is correct and doesn't
include the 'announce' address, the only thing that would come back
would be a bounce which should be returned to the announce-bounces
address.


>These reports are from
>memory, but I looked at the various logs several times before
>resorting to asking for help. :)


Thank you.

The smtp log entry relating to delivery of a post looks something like

Feb 11 17:17:09 2006 (1570) <43EE8C62.3050407 at bbiw.net> smtp for 66
recips, completed in 0.887 seconds.

The important things are the message-id (<43EE8C62.3050407 at bbiw.net> in
this case) and the number of recipients (66 here) equal to the number
of message mode subscribers with delivery enabled minus the sender if
the sender is 'not metoo' and minus any subscribers that are 'nodups'
and mentioned in To: or Cc: of the post.

The important thing about the message-id of the post is that it not be
of the form <mailman.6292.1139703813.1568.list at host>, because that
indicates a Mailman internally generated message and not a post.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb 12 04:24:21 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 19:24:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error log -  Failed before cPickle:
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060211135225087568697ac4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC17402006021119242107343c42bcb3@msapiro>

>Susan Feng wrote:
>>
>>I noticed the following messages in mailman error log every time when a
>>list is accessed, for example:
>>
>>/usr/local/mailman/lists/email-team/config.pck.tmp.mailman.Stanford.EDU.13813
>>Feb 09 09:49:38 2006 (13810) Failed before cPickle:
>>/usr/local/mailman/lists/email-team/config.pck.tmp.mailman.Stanford.EDU.13810
>>Feb 09 09:50:38 2006 (13813) Failed before cPickle:


The more I look at this, the more it looks like a 'debugging' entry
that someone may have added in the definition of __save() in your
version of Mailman/MailList.py. Even if that is the case, that still
leaves the questions "what is the exact circumstance the causes it?"
and "who put it there and why?".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb 12 06:23:59 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 21:23:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirm setting not holding
In-Reply-To: <p06230906c010441ea5ef@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <PC174020060211212359098429dc3593@msapiro>

Bob Bergey wrote:

>Under Privacy Options/Subscription Rules (Mailman 2.1.4) are the 
>settings for either Confirm, Approve, or Confirm and Approve. On half 
>a dozen of my lists, even though they're set for Confirm, the setting 
>won't hold -- it keeps changing to Confirm and Approve. Anyone have 
>any idea why?

Not really, but here are some things to think about.

Do you have any confirmation that it ever actually gets changed back to
'Confirm'?

Assuming it does get changed back to 'Confirm', can you identify any
pattern in when it reverts to 'Confirm and Approve'. E.g. does it
happen on the same day of the week or month or the same time of day or
whenever you visit the admin interface for the list?

Is there possibly some cron or other process that periodically runs
bin/config_list or some bin/withlist script that might be doing this?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb 12 07:01:59 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 22:01:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Redirect all -bounce emails
In-Reply-To: <98a90c220602091039p24bd4351y5b15bda063efa291@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602112201590421d9c69a40@msapiro>

Tom Kavanaugh wrote:
>
>I setup a few mail lists (including default mailman list) in 
>name.comdomain, and worked with my IT folks to redirect <maillist>@
>name.com to my mail server <mailist>@mine.name.com
>I do get a few <maillist-name>-bounce at name.com emails, and I would like to
>re-direct all these emails to mailman at name.com (or mailman at mine.name.com)
>Does someone have ideas how to accomplish this?
>
>I do not administer the company's mail servers.
>Folks here are not open to the list.name.com domain idea, for legacy
>reasons.


Depending on the MTA that recieves the incoming mail for the name.com
domain and whether it has the ability through NTFS or whatever to
access files or directories on mine.name.com, it may or may not be
possible to do something to direct all list mail to mine.name.com by
looking at aliases or whatever on mine.name.com, but that may be even
less acceptable to the IT folks than just installing the necessary
aliases.

See the post at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-January/048725.html>
and the surrounding posts in that thread for more on this.

Basically, there are 10 addresses per list - the listname address plus
the 9 listname-* (where * is admin, bounces, confirm, join, leave,
owner, request, subscribe or unsubscribe) addresses - which all must
be able to receive mail and route it to Mailman in a way that Mailman
can tell which of the 10 addresses it came from. In order for Mailman
to fully function as documented, 9 of these should work (-admin is
deprecated). You can get away without some of the others if you don't
tell people about them, and they don't expect them to work from other
Mailman experience.


>I have a bunch of /etc/aliases entries for each of my mail lists on
>mine.name.com server.
>Is there a way I can use these alaises to re-firect <maillist-bounce>@
>name.com to mailman at name.com


I'm not sure what you're getting at here. If you're thinking that you
can get around the issue by having all bounces from any list be
returned to the 'mailman' list posting address, you could do this in
the source code, but not by using aliases on mine.name.com. But, you
still have the issue of the other listname-* addresses.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mfatihakbulut at gmail.com  Sun Feb 12 10:09:33 2006
From: mfatihakbulut at gmail.com (Mehmet Fatih AKBULUT)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 11:09:33 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cant create new lists ?
Message-ID: <eed667140602120109i57823023me5a6ec587ec211d9@mail.gmail.com>

hi all,
i cannot create new lists.
getting the errors below :
*You are not authorized to create new mailing lists*
You can create a new mailing list by entering the relevant information into
the form below. The name of the mailing list will be used as the primary
address for posting messages to the list, so it should be lowercased. You
will not be able to change this once the list is created.
You also need to enter the email address of the initial list owner. Once the
list is created, the list owner will be given notification, along with the
initial list password. The list owner will then be able to modify the
password and add or remove additional list owners.
If you want Mailman to automatically generate the initial list admin
password, click on `Yes' in the autogenerate field below, and leave the
initial list password fields empty.You must have the proper authorization to
create new mailing lists. Each site should have a *list creator's* password,
which you can enter in the field at the bottom. Note that the site
administrator's password can also be used for authentication.

what is missing ? i did everything as supposed to be ? i am the mailowner
and administrator ?
what should i do to create new mailing lists ?

and the second question i want to ask is about images.
i installed mailman using apt-get install. but images not shown on pages.
where exactly i move images directory to be able to see icons on pages ?
my cgi-bin directory : /usr/lib/cgi-bin and mailman is under this directory.
other malman directories are : /etc/mailman /usr/lib/mailman and
/usr/share/mailman.
i have :
localhost:/usr/lib/mailman# ls
bin  cron  mail  Mailman  scripts
and put images folder in some places but didnt find the correct one ;)
help me please.
thanks in advance,
bye.


From jp at warpix.org  Sun Feb 12 13:22:34 2006
From: jp at warpix.org (John Poltorak)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 12:22:34 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Where are my posts?
Message-ID: <20060212122234.J46@warpix.org>

How can I trace what has happened to my posts to a list which I set up 
some time ago?

It had a few posts originally, but after restarting mailmanctl yesterday 
nothing gets accepted. Have I overlooked something when start Mailman? I 
ran 'mailamanctl start'.

Which log would I look at to see if a post has arrived in the first place?

-- 
John 




From kevin.mcnamee at symsoft.se  Sun Feb 12 14:55:37 2006
From: kevin.mcnamee at symsoft.se (Kevin McNamee)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 14:55:37 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail and mm-handler woes
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060211132030079668697a7a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200602121355.k1CDtb4J015250@my.symsoft.se>

Hi Mark,

Yep, I have created my mailertable map also. I am no sendmail expert either
but I am being forced to look closely at how it is set up. Found a useful
tutorial here (there are many more): http://www.feep.net/sendmail/tutorial/

Thanks,
Kevin



-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: 11 February 2006 22:21
To: Kevin McNamee; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] sendmail and mm-handler woes

Kevin McNamee wrote:
>
>I have followed the mailman instruction and mm-handler.readme and I can
>administer everything via web and receive confirmation emails, except I get
>"User unknown" when I try send to my testlist at mailman.symsoft.se. From
>reading the archives it suggests that sendmail is not recognising
mm-handler
>as the recipient of mail to the mailman.symsoft.se domain. 


I always suggest that people get things going in the standard way
before trying add-ons like mm-handler.

 
I didn't look at your sendmail.mc because I don't understand that stuff.


># cat mailertable
>
>mailman.symsoft.se      mailman:mailman.symsoft.se


Did you follow the implicit instruction in the last sentence of step 5
in mm-handler.readme?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb 12 16:56:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 07:56:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail and mm-handler woes
In-Reply-To: <200602121355.k1CDtb4J015250@my.symsoft.se>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602120756560937a56e5601@msapiro>

Kevin McNamee wrote:
>
>Yep, I have created my mailertable map also. I am no sendmail expert either
>but I am being forced to look closely at how it is set up. Found a useful
>tutorial here (there are many more): http://www.feep.net/sendmail/tutorial/


When you get this worked out, if you find that the mm-handler.readme is
unclear or needs improvement, please pass along your suggestions so
they can be incorporated in the readme and/or a FAQ.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb 12 17:18:09 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 08:18:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Where are my posts?
In-Reply-To: <20060212122234.J46@warpix.org>
Message-ID: <PC174020060212081809004658dc2477@msapiro>

John Poltorak wrote:

>How can I trace what has happened to my posts to a list which I set up 
>some time ago?
>
>It had a few posts originally, but after restarting mailmanctl yesterday 
>nothing gets accepted. Have I overlooked something when start Mailman? I 
>ran 'mailamanctl start'.


Had you previously done 'mailamanctl stop'?. If not, you may have
issues with multiple qrunners. If you just want to 'restart' Mailman
because you made some mm_cfg.py change or similar, the appropriate
command is 'mailamanctl restart'. Do

ps -fAw | grep python

or how ever you might spell that to see what python processes are
running. There should be one mailmanctl and eight grunners -
ArchRunner, BounceRunner, CommandRunner, IncomingRunner, NewsRunner,
OutgoingRunner, VirginRunner and RetryRunner.


>Which log would I look at to see if a post has arrived in the first place?


When you say "nothing gets accepted", I assume you mean nothing gets
delivered/archived rather than your post is bounced back to you.

There is no Mailman log that will show receipt of a post. The MTA log
will show its delivery, and that's it. The 'post' log will have an
entry if the post made it through to outgoing delivery, and the 'smtp'
and 'smtp-failure' logs will have details about delivery. The 'vette'
log will have information about posts held for moderation or rejected
or discarded. Other than that, the 'error' log will have information
about errors that occurred in processing a post.

If the post arrived and was not fully processed, it should be in one of
the qfiles/* queues. If it's in qfiles/shunt/, it was shunted due to
an error which should be logged in 'error'. If in another queue, it is
waiting to be processed by a qrunner which may not be running.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb 12 17:37:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 08:37:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cant create new lists ?
In-Reply-To: <eed667140602120109i57823023me5a6ec587ec211d9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602120837330515be44d6e4@msapiro>

Mehmet Fatih AKBULUT wrote:

>i cannot create new lists.
>getting the errors below :
>*You are not authorized to create new mailing lists*
<snip>
>
>what is missing ? i did everything as supposed to be ? i am the mailowner
>and administrator ?
>what should i do to create new mailing lists ?


To create a list from the web, you need to supply either the site
password or the special list creation password - both set by
bin/mmsitepass - in the "List creator's (authentication) password:"
field at the bottom of the form. The message is telling you that the
password you provided is not one of those two.


>and the second question i want to ask is about images.
>i installed mailman using apt-get install. but images not shown on pages.
>where exactly i move images directory to be able to see icons on pages ?


See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node10.html>. If that doesn't
help you, you'll need to talk to whoever built the package you
installed or someone who knows the details of that package.

You can always put "IMAGE_LOGOS = 0" in mm_cfg.py to 'turn off' the
images all together.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Jon.Slater at LPBroadband.Net  Sun Feb 12 16:59:01 2006
From: Jon.Slater at LPBroadband.Net (Jon D. Slater)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 08:59:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a security hole in Mailman?
Message-ID: <200602121559.k1CFx4nv019990@steeplechase-hoa.org>

Hi All,

 

I've been away from this list for a while, so the question may have already
been asked (and answered).

 

Is there a security hole in Mailman?

 

Here's what I mean.

 

I'm running several servers, all running mailman.  *None* of my lists are
displayed publicly when you view the mailman/listinfo page.

 

When-ever I use a non-mailman email address on one of my web pages, I always
'munge' it using a java script.

 

Lately I've been bombarded by 100's of spam e-mail messages, but *only to my
Mailman lists*.  My non-mailman e-mail address (which are munged with java),
are never hit.

 

How are the evil spammers harvesting my list names when they aren't on the
'listinfo' page?

 

And, more importantly, is there a way to prevent it?  (BTW, I'm also using
SPAM ASSASSIN and a lot of these SPAM messages still get through.)

 

Thanks!

 

Jon



From jeff.donsbach at gmail.com  Sun Feb 12 18:10:04 2006
From: jeff.donsbach at gmail.com (Jeff Donsbach)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 12:10:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a security hole in Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <200602121559.k1CFx4nv019990@steeplechase-hoa.org>
References: <200602121559.k1CFx4nv019990@steeplechase-hoa.org>
Message-ID: <22976ef80602120910va40b6ffs4285c1f9accccfab@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/12/06, Jon D. Slater <Jon.Slater at lpbroadband.net> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Is there a security hole in Mailman?
>
>
> How are the evil spammers harvesting my list names when they aren't on the
> 'listinfo' page?
>

>From the address book(s) of one or some of you subscribers infected
with a virus/worm?

>
> And, more importantly, is there a way to prevent it?  (BTW, I'm also using
> SPAM ASSASSIN and a lot of these SPAM messages still get through.)
>

Is your list set for "subscribers only" posting? Set your list to hold
posts from non-members for moderation.

Keep feeding the spam messages to "sa-learn".

Jeff D


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Sun Feb 12 18:20:44 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 11:20:44 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems sending to list
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602111818560156741083f4@msapiro>
References: <6fbe3da00602111543r2afaecc0ge5f023a948ccd82b@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200602111818560156741083f4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602120920v5221eb40wafa96d9e28c36537@mail.gmail.com>

The various log entries are:
Post:
Feb 09 11:25:52 2006 (20476) post to announce from
root at mail.physics.tamu.edu, size=1924,
message-id=<200602091725.k19HPmje010926 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>,
success
Feb 09 11:27:42 2006 (11160) post to announce from
root at mail.physics.tamu.edu, size=1924,
message-id=<200602091727.k19HRdLY011169 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>,
success
Feb 09 11:42:51 2006 (11160) post to announce from
pdbogen at physics.tamu.edu, size=1905,
message-id=<200602091742.k19Hgkug012917 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>,
success
Feb 09 11:54:37 2006 (15456) post to announce from
root at mail.physics.tamu.edu, size=1924,
message-id=<200602091754.k19HsZOG015467 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>,
success
Feb 09 11:59:47 2006 (15456) post to announce from
root at mail.physics.tamu.edu, size=1723,
message-id=<200602091759.k19Hxiwn016032 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>,
success

Corresponding in smtp:
Feb 09 11:25:52 2006 (20476)
<200602091725.k19HPmje010926 at mail.physics.tamu.edu> smtp for 13
recips, completed in 0.704 seconds
Feb 09 11:27:42 2006 (11160)
<200602091727.k19HRdLY011169 at mail.physics.tamu.edu> smtp for 13
recips, completed in 0.936 seconds
Feb 09 11:42:51 2006 (11160)
<200602091742.k19Hgkug012917 at mail.physics.tamu.edu> smtp for 13
recips, completed in 0.572 seconds
Feb 09 11:54:37 2006 (15456)
<200602091754.k19HsZOG015467 at mail.physics.tamu.edu> smtp for 13
recips, completed in 0.427 seconds
Feb 09 11:59:47 2006 (15456)
<200602091759.k19Hxiwn016032 at mail.physics.tamu.edu> smtp for 13
recips, completed in 0.655 seconds

And then a few seconds after each one in vette:
Feb 09 11:26:05 2006 (20474) Message discarded, msgid:
<200602091725.k19HPmje010926 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>
Feb 09 11:26:07 2006 (20474) Message discarded, msgid:
<200602091725.k19HPmje010926 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>
Feb 09 11:26:09 2006 (20474) Message discarded, msgid:
<200602091725.k19HPmje010926 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>
Feb 09 11:28:05 2006 (11158) Message discarded, msgid:
<200602091727.k19HRdLY011169 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>
Feb 09 11:28:07 2006 (11158) Message discarded, msgid:
<200602091727.k19HRdLY011169 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>
Feb 09 11:28:09 2006 (11158) Message discarded, msgid:
<200602091727.k19HRdLY011169 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>
Feb 09 11:43:05 2006 (11158) Message discarded, msgid:
<200602091742.k19Hgkug012917 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>
Feb 09 11:43:07 2006 (11158) Message discarded, msgid:
<200602091742.k19Hgkug012917 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>
Feb 09 11:43:09 2006 (11158) Message discarded, msgid:
<200602091742.k19Hgkug012917 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>
Feb 09 11:55:06 2006 (15454) Message discarded, msgid:
<200602091754.k19HsZOG015467 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>
Feb 09 11:55:08 2006 (15454) Message discarded, msgid:
<200602091754.k19HsZOG015467 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>
Feb 09 11:55:11 2006 (15454) Message discarded, msgid:
<200602091754.k19HsZOG015467 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>
Feb 09 12:00:05 2006 (15454) Message discarded, msgid:
<200602091759.k19Hxiwn016032 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>
Feb 09 12:00:07 2006 (15454) Message discarded, msgid:
<200602091759.k19Hxiwn016032 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>
Feb 09 12:00:10 2006 (15454) Message discarded, msgid:
<200602091759.k19Hxiwn016032 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>

It'll take me a bit longer to pull the applicable sendmail and
procmail logs. Nothing looks amiss in procmail, though; it matches on
^TO_announce at physics.tamu.edu and sends it along to the mailman
handler as it should.

What I'd really like to see is a snapshot of the actual messages that
are being send to the smtp server.. I probably know enough python to
hack that in myself, though. I'll look at that on Tuesday.

- Patrick Bogen

On 2/11/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
> >Post shows my message sent to the list received properly.
>
>
> Actually, 'post' log entries say that the message was not only
> 'received' by Mailman, but that it made it all the way through and was
> sent out.
>
>
> >SMTP shows
> >that it delivered to recipients. (If exact messages would be helpful,
> >let me know and I'll grab them from the logs.
>
>
> This means that the outgoing message was successfully passed to and
> accepted by the MTA. It is a matter of faith that the recipients of
> the message as sent to the MTA are in fact the list members who should
> receive it. At this point, it's up to the MTA to deliver it, and if we
> accept that the recipient list given to the MTA is correct and doesn't
> include the 'announce' address, the only thing that would come back
> would be a bounce which should be returned to the announce-bounces
> address.
>
>
> >These reports are from
> >memory, but I looked at the various logs several times before
> >resorting to asking for help. :)
>
>
> Thank you.
>
> The smtp log entry relating to delivery of a post looks something like
>
> Feb 11 17:17:09 2006 (1570) <43EE8C62.3050407 at bbiw.net> smtp for 66
> recips, completed in 0.887 seconds.
>
> The important things are the message-id (<43EE8C62.3050407 at bbiw.net> in
> this case) and the number of recipients (66 here) equal to the number
> of message mode subscribers with delivery enabled minus the sender if
> the sender is 'not metoo' and minus any subscribers that are 'nodups'
> and mentioned in To: or Cc: of the post.
>
> The important thing about the message-id of the post is that it not be
> of the form <mailman.6292.1139703813.1568.list at host>, because that
> indicates a Mailman internally generated message and not a post.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


--
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb 12 19:45:59 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 10:45:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems sending to list
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00602120920v5221eb40wafa96d9e28c36537@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602121045590578b1a6309d@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>The various log entries are:
>Post:
>Feb 09 11:25:52 2006 (20476) post to announce from
>root at mail.physics.tamu.edu, size=3D1924,
>message-id=3D<200602091725.k19HPmje010926 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>,
>success
<snip>

Just looking at one ... Successfully posted

>
>Corresponding in smtp:
>Feb 09 11:25:52 2006 (20476)
><200602091725.k19HPmje010926 at mail.physics.tamu.edu> smtp for 13
>recips, completed in 0.704 seconds

Successfully delivered to the MTA with 13 recips.


>And then a few seconds after each one in vette:
>Feb 09 11:26:05 2006 (20474) Message discarded, msgid:
><200602091725.k19HPmje010926 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>
>Feb 09 11:26:07 2006 (20474) Message discarded, msgid:
><200602091725.k19HPmje010926 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>
>Feb 09 11:26:09 2006 (20474) Message discarded, msgid:
><200602091725.k19HPmje010926 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>


Then for this message (I'm guessing) three bounces returned by the MTA,
misdirected to the list and discarded as post from non-member.


>It'll take me a bit longer to pull the applicable sendmail and
>procmail logs. Nothing looks amiss in procmail, though; it matches on
>^TO_announce at physics.tamu.edu and sends it along to the mailman
>handler as it should.
>
>What I'd really like to see is a snapshot of the actual messages that
>are being send to the smtp server.. I probably know enough python to
>hack that in myself, though. I'll look at that on Tuesday.

As a first try, set Privacy options...->Sender
filters->forward_auto_discards to Yes, but this won't work unless the
announce-owner address is deliverable, because that's where the
forward is initially sent. See do_discard() in
Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py if you want to hack in a different
address.

You could also set generic_nonmember_action to Hold which should make
the message available in the admindb interface.

Note the above suggestins assume that the discarded messages are auto
discards of bounce notices that are treated as non-member posts which
may not be what's happening.

You can also hack bulk_deliver() in Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py to
log recips and msgtext.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mark at phillipsmarketing.biz  Mon Feb 13 03:08:57 2006
From: mark at phillipsmarketing.biz (Mark Phillips)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 19:08:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions Regarding Bounces
Message-ID: <200602121908.57236.mark@phillipsmarketing.biz>

I have a mailing list of about 900 members. There are quite a few email 
addresses that have bounced. I noticed that mailman marked these addresses as 
"nomail", which I assume means email is not sent to these addresses.

My questions pertain to the performance of the list. Should I un-subscribe 
these bounced email addresses? Does leaving them marked as "nomail" impact 
the performance of my list? What is the accepted practice for bounced email 
addresses?

Thanks!
-- 
Mark Phillips
Phillips Marketing, Inc
mark at phillipsmarketing.biz
602 524-0376
480 945-9197 fax


From novotny at aei.mpg.de  Mon Feb 13 03:15:54 2006
From: novotny at aei.mpg.de (Jason Novotny)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 18:15:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to move mail list
Message-ID: <43EFEBDA.1070207@aei.mpg.de>


Hi,

    Pardon me if this has been asked numerous times before, it might be 
a good FAQ entry--
We have an older version of Mailman 2.0.13 with 3 mail lists on it 
located on a server in Europe that we wish to transfer over to Mailman 
2.1.7 that I just installed in San Diego. I found some mention of a 
script "move_list" on the webpage, but it's not in my bin directory 
after I did a make install. Can someone please help me with the 
necessary steps I need to perform, to move the old mail lists to our new 
server?

    Thanks in advance, Jason


From tomnaugh at gmail.com  Mon Feb 13 04:00:46 2006
From: tomnaugh at gmail.com (Tom Kavanaugh)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 19:00:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Redirect all -bounce emails
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602112201590421d9c69a40@msapiro>
References: <98a90c220602091039p24bd4351y5b15bda063efa291@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200602112201590421d9c69a40@msapiro>
Message-ID: <98a90c220602121900p7d701c73qe2f7ed8019af288e@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark,

Thanks for your response and suggestions.

> You can get away without some of the others if you don't tell people about
them, and they > don't expect them to work from other Mailman experience.

I can get away with all the other addresses with every list. It is only the
listname-bounce that worries me.

>If you're thinking that you can get around the issue by having all bounces
from any list be
>returned to the 'mailman' list posting address, you could do this in the
source code, but >not by using aliases on mine.name.com.

Yes, this is precisely what I want to accomplish. Could you point me to some
place, or the portion of the code that needs to be tinkered with. I am not a
perl/python person, so this is going to be a huge learning curve for me.

Regards
Elvis


On 2/11/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Tom Kavanaugh wrote:
> >
> >I setup a few mail lists (including default mailman list) in
> >name.comdomain, and worked with my IT folks to redirect <maillist>@
> >name.com to my mail server <mailist>@mine.name.com
> >I do get a few <maillist-name>-bounce at name.com emails, and I would like
> to
> >re-direct all these emails to mailman at name.com (or mailman at mine.name.com)
> >Does someone have ideas how to accomplish this?
> >
> >I do not administer the company's mail servers.
> >Folks here are not open to the list.name.com domain idea, for legacy
> >reasons.
>
>
> Depending on the MTA that recieves the incoming mail for the name.com
> domain and whether it has the ability through NTFS or whatever to
> access files or directories on mine.name.com, it may or may not be
> possible to do something to direct all list mail to mine.name.com by
> looking at aliases or whatever on mine.name.com, but that may be even
> less acceptable to the IT folks than just installing the necessary
> aliases.
>
> See the post at
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-January/048725.html>
> and the surrounding posts in that thread for more on this.
>
> Basically, there are 10 addresses per list - the listname address plus
> the 9 listname-* (where * is admin, bounces, confirm, join, leave,
> owner, request, subscribe or unsubscribe) addresses - which all must
> be able to receive mail and route it to Mailman in a way that Mailman
> can tell which of the 10 addresses it came from. In order for Mailman
> to fully function as documented, 9 of these should work (-admin is
> deprecated). You can get away without some of the others if you don't
> tell people about them, and they don't expect them to work from other
> Mailman experience.
>
>
> >I have a bunch of /etc/aliases entries for each of my mail lists on
> >mine.name.com server.
> >Is there a way I can use these alaises to re-firect <maillist-bounce>@
> >name.com to mailman at name.com
>
>
> I'm not sure what you're getting at here. If you're thinking that you
> can get around the issue by having all bounces from any list be
> returned to the 'mailman' list posting address, you could do this in
> the source code, but not by using aliases on mine.name.com. But, you
> still have the issue of the other listname-* addresses.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 13 04:07:39 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 19:07:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions Regarding Bounces
In-Reply-To: <200602121908.57236.mark@phillipsmarketing.biz>
Message-ID: <PC17402006021219073902041b5dc173@msapiro>

Mark Phillips wrote:
>
>My questions pertain to the performance of the list. Should I un-subscribe 
>these bounced email addresses? Does leaving them marked as "nomail" impact 
>the performance of my list? What is the accepted practice for bounced email 
>addresses?


Set whatever you want on your list's bounce processing options page.
What is going on in your case is your bouncing addresses that are
disabled due to bounce have a grace period during which they may log
on to their options page and reenable delivery.

When the user was first disabled, she was sent the first of
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings warning notices. These will be sent
at intervals of bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval days. That
many days after the last warning, if the member is still disabled due
to bounce, she will be removed from the list.

You don't need to manually remove bouncing members. Just set your
bounce parameters the way you want them.

Having members disabled due to bounce and still on the list has almost
no impact on performance. The impact is just the size of the member
list, and the largest part of the impact is probably loading and
saving the list. If you're concerned that this might be significant,
just set bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings to zero, and the member will
be removed as soon as his bounce score reaches bounce_score_threshold.
	
-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 13 05:03:18 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 20:03:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Redirect all -bounce emails
In-Reply-To: <98a90c220602121900p7d701c73qe2f7ed8019af288e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006021220031807665e48bc10@msapiro>

Tom Kavanaugh wrote:
>
>>If you're thinking that you can get around the issue by having all bounces
>from any list be
>>returned to the 'mailman' list posting address, you could do this in the
>source code, but >not by using aliases on mine.name.com.
>
>Yes, this is precisely what I want to accomplish. Could you point me to some
>place, or the portion of the code that needs to be tinkered with. I am not a
>perl/python person, so this is going to be a huge learning curve for me.


There are two obvious ways that jump to mind.

The first, which will address the bounce issue for all mail, is the
following code at the beginning of the process() function in
Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py

    # Calculate the non-VERP envelope sender.
    envsender = msgdata.get('envsender')
    if envsender is None:
        if mlist:
            envsender = mlist.GetBouncesEmail()
        else:
            envsender = Utils.get_site_email(extra='bounces')

which could simply be replaced by something like

    # Envelope sender (bounces) is always the site list.
    envsender = 'mailman at name.com'

Don't worry about VERP because it is calculated from envsender.

Another way to do it would be to modify the getListAddress() method
definition in Mailman/MailList.py to just return 'mailman at name.com'
when extra is not None and similarly modify get_site_email() in
Mailman/Utils.py to ignore the extra argument.

Then it might be possible to do it in your outgoing MTA, not with
aliases, but with some kind of rewrite of the envelope sender on
outgoing mail if your MTA supports such a thing.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 13 05:42:30 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 20:42:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to move mail list
In-Reply-To: <43EFEBDA.1070207@aei.mpg.de>
Message-ID: <PC17402006021220423007355c9d3efd@msapiro>

Jason Novotny wrote:
>
>    Pardon me if this has been asked numerous times before, it might be 
>a good FAQ entry--

You mean like
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.004.htp>?


>I found some mention of a 
>script "move_list" on the webpage, but it's not in my bin directory 
>after I did a make install.


This script was removed over 4 years ago as it's no longer needed.


>Can someone please help me with the 
>necessary steps I need to perform, to move the old mail lists to our new 
>server?


See the FAQ. Aside from that, the best thing, if possible is to deal
with all messages waiting moderation and outstanding confirmations and
the like on the old system so there aren't any to be moved. Then the
simplest thing is to move the entire contents of the archives/ and
lists/ directories (except maybe the site list).

If the domain names are changing, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp>
too. Perhaps the safest thing to do in this case is to just move the
lists/<listname>/config.db files and the
archives/private/<listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox files.

Do not create the list on the new host. Install the
lists/<listname>/config.db file and access the list via the admin web
interface. This will convert the config.db to a new config.pck after
which the config.db is not needed. If you create the list first, it
will have a config.pck, and Mailman will never look at the config.db.

Then fix the host_name and web_page_url attributes of the list with
fix_url, and rebuild the archives with 'bin/arch --wipe'

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in  Mon Feb 13 05:25:00 2006
From: nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in (Kabilan L)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 09:55:00 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help me on LDAPMEMBERADAPTOR-V3.0 very Urgent
Message-ID: <20060213040140.M64441@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>

hai!!!
  I am trying to configure LDAPMemberAdaptor-V3.0 in my Ldap Server.
I copied extend.py and LDAPMemberships.py to /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/.
I also copied extend.py to /var/lib/mailman/lists/staff(listname)/.
I also added these things in MailList.py

import extend

# other useful classes
from Mailman.LDAPMemberships import LDAPMemberships
so use LDAPMemberships.py for OldStyleMemberships.py .

I have following in extend.py

from Mailman.LDAPMemberships import LDAPMemberships
def extend(list):
    ldap = LDAPMemberships(list)
    ldap.ldapsearch = "(uid=recipient)"   # your LDAP search here
    ldap.ldapserver = "127.0.0.1"  # your LDAP server
    ldap.ldapbasedn = "dc=domain dc=com" # your base DN
    ldap.ldapbinddn = 'cn=Manager,dc=domain,dc=com'   # bind DN that can
access 'mail' field
    ldap.ldappasswd = 'xxxx'              # bind password for ldapbinddn
    ldap.LDAP_URL = "ldap://ldap.domain.com:389/"
    ldap.LDAP_MAIL_ATTRS = ("mail",)
    ldap.LDAP_LOCALDOMAIN = "domain.com"
    ldap.LDAP_REALNAME_ATTR = "cn"
    ldap.LDAP_MAILMEMBER_ATTRS = ("rfc822MailMember",)
    ldap.LDAP_MEMBER_ATTRS = ("uniqueMember","memberUID")
    ldap.LDAP_OWNER_ATTR = "owner"
    ldap.LDAP_LIST_RDN_ATTR = "cn"
    ldap.LDAP_LIST_CLASSFILTER =
"(|(objectclass=groupOfUniqueNames)(objectclass=nisMailAlias)(objectclass=groupOfNames))"
    ldap.LDAP_BASE = "ou=Group,dc=domain,dc=com"
    list._memberadaptor = ldap

This what a user looks like in my Ldap Server.User belongs to staff group.I
have a MailMan Group staff.But when i click on membership Management in web
interface i have this bug 

Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the
webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. 

dn: uid=test8,ou=People,dc=domain,dc=com
uid: test8
cn: testuser8
sn: testuser8
mail: test8 at domain.com
objectClass: person
objectClass: organizationalPerson
objectClass: inetOrgPerson
objectClass: posixAccount
objectClass: top
loginShell: /bin/zsh
uidNumber: 11008
gidNumber: 9002
homeDirectory: /home/staff/test8
gecos: testuser8

In /var/log/mailman/error

AttributeError: LDAPMemberships instance has no attribute 'ldapserver'

Can anyone Help me on this.

Kabilan.L
Department of Electrical Engineering
IIT Madras
Chennai - 600 036
Tamil Nadu, INDIA


"The secret to winning football games is working more as a team, less as
individuals. I play not my 11 best, but my best 11." ->Knute Rockne



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 13 06:45:44 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 21:45:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help me on LDAPMEMBERADAPTOR-V3.0 very Urgent
In-Reply-To: <20060213040140.M64441@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602122145440188cb635e48@msapiro>

Kabilan L wrote:

>  I am trying to configure LDAPMemberAdaptor-V3.0 in my Ldap Server.
>I copied extend.py and LDAPMemberships.py to /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/.


I doubt that this has anything to do with your problem, but the
extend.py file should not be in the /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/
directory. A list specific extend.py should be in the
/var/lib/mailman/lists/<listname>/ directory as below.


>I also copied extend.py to /var/lib/mailman/lists/staff(listname)/.
>I also added these things in MailList.py
>
>import extend


Now you do have a problem. The above import is wrong. The MailList
class __init__ method actually runs the list's extend.py when the list
is instantiated. You definitely do not want to import extend in
MailList.py.


># other useful classes
>from Mailman.LDAPMemberships import LDAPMemberships
>so use LDAPMemberships.py for OldStyleMemberships.py .


Wrong again. The list's extend.py takes care of importing
LDAPMemberships and setting mlist._memberadaptor to the list's
LDAPMemberships instance. You don't make any changes in MailList.py.

Just put an extend.py with the specific LDAP information for that list
in that list's list/<listname>/ directory, and put LDAPMemberships.py
in the Mailman/ directory, and the extend.py mechanism already built
into MailList.py does the rest.


>
>I have following in extend.py
>
>from Mailman.LDAPMemberships import LDAPMemberships
>def extend(list):
>    ldap = LDAPMemberships(list)
>    ldap.ldapsearch = "(uid=recipient)"   # your LDAP search here
>    ldap.ldapserver = "127.0.0.1"  # your LDAP server
>    ldap.ldapbasedn = "dc=domain dc=com" # your base DN
>    ldap.ldapbinddn = 'cn=Manager,dc=domain,dc=com'   # bind DN that can
>access 'mail' field
>    ldap.ldappasswd = 'xxxx'              # bind password for ldapbinddn
>    ldap.LDAP_URL = "ldap://ldap.domain.com:389/"
>    ldap.LDAP_MAIL_ATTRS = ("mail",)
>    ldap.LDAP_LOCALDOMAIN = "domain.com"
>    ldap.LDAP_REALNAME_ATTR = "cn"
>    ldap.LDAP_MAILMEMBER_ATTRS = ("rfc822MailMember",)
>    ldap.LDAP_MEMBER_ATTRS = ("uniqueMember","memberUID")
>    ldap.LDAP_OWNER_ATTR = "owner"
>    ldap.LDAP_LIST_RDN_ATTR = "cn"
>    ldap.LDAP_LIST_CLASSFILTER =
>"(|(objectclass=groupOfUniqueNames)(objectclass=nisMailAlias)(objectclass=groupOfNames))"
>    ldap.LDAP_BASE = "ou=Group,dc=domain,dc=com"
>    list._memberadaptor = ldap
>

Looks OK. I don't know the LDAP stuff, but the stuff to make it
interface properly as the MemberAdaptor for the list is there, namely

>from Mailman.LDAPMemberships import LDAPMemberships
>def extend(list):
>    ldap = LDAPMemberships(list)
 and
>    list._memberadaptor = ldap

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 13 08:04:15 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 02:04:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Add'l subscription info
Message-ID: <43F02F6F.7010303@yahoo.com>

Anyone ever hear of any mailman patches that allow for additional 
subscription info.  What I am looking for is a way to record some extra 
information from each subscriber.  Things like birthday (for lists that 
discuss alcohol), sex (for health/medical related lists), as well as 
occupation (for technical lists).

Tia,

-Jim P.


From nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in  Mon Feb 13 08:25:28 2006
From: nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in (Kabilan L)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 12:55:28 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help me on LDAPMEMBERADAPTOR-V3.0 very Urgent
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602122145440188cb635e48@msapiro>
References: <20060213040140.M64441@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>
	<PC1740200602122145440188cb635e48@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060213071339.M97980@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>

Hai!!!
The following is the error when in i put extend.py in
/var/lib/mailman/lists/listname/.

This is what in extend.py

from Mailman.LDAPMemberships import LDAPMemberships

def extend(list):
    ldap = LDAPMemberships(list)
    ldap.ldapsearch = "(uid=recipient)"   # your LDAP search here
    ldap.ldapserver = "127.0.0.1"  # your LDAP server
    ldap.ldapbasedn = "dc=domain dc=com" # your base DN
    ldap.ldapbinddn = 'cn=Manager,dc=domain,dc=com'   # bind DN that can
access 'mail' field
    ldap.ldappasswd = 'xxxx'                 # bind password for ldapbinddn
    ldap.LDAP_URL = "ldap://ldap.domain.com:389/"
    ldap.LDAP_MAIL_ATTRS = ("mail",)
    ldap.LDAP_LOCALDOMAIN = "domain.com"
    ldap.LDAP_REALNAME_ATTR = "cn"
    ldap.LDAP_MAILMEMBER_ATTRS = ("rfc822MailMember",)
    ldap.LDAP_MEMBER_ATTRS = ("uniqueMember","memberUID")
    ldap.LDAP_OWNER_ATTR = "owner"
    ldap.LDAP_LIST_RDN_ATTR = "cn"
    ldap.LDAP_LIST_CLASSFILTER =
"(|(objectclass=groupOfUniqueNames)(objectclass=nisMailAlias)(objectclass=groupOfNames))"
    ldap.LDAP_BASE = "cn=staff,ou=Group,dc=domain,dc=com"
    list._memberadaptor = ldap


admin(5563): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.5 -----]
admin(5563): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(5563): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(5563):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in run_main
admin(5563):     main()
admin(5563):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 198, in main
admin(5563):     show_results(mlist, doc, category, subcat, cgidata)
admin(5563):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 498, in
show_results
admin(5563):     form.AddItem(membership_options(mlist, subcat, cgidata, doc,
form))
admin(5563):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 870, in
membership_options
admin(5563):     all = [_m.encode() for _m in mlist.getMembers()]
admin(5563):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LDAPMemberships.py", line 263,
in getMembers
admin(5563):     return self.__ldap_get_members()
admin(5563):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LDAPMemberships.py", line 246,
in __ldap_get_members
admin(5563):     self.__ldap_load_members_by_group()
admin(5563):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LDAPMemberships.py", line 226,
in __ldap_load_members_by_group
admin(5563):     entry = l.search_st(self.__mlist.LDAP_BASE,
ldap.SCOPE_ONELEVEL ,filterstr=filter)[0]
admin(5563): IndexError: list index out of range
admin(5563): [----- Python Information -----]

So  what is the solution for this problem.

Thanking You All!!!

kabilan.L




From kevin.mcnamee at symsoft.se  Mon Feb 13 11:32:09 2006
From: kevin.mcnamee at symsoft.se (Kevin McNamee)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 11:32:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail and mm-handler woes
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602120756560937a56e5601@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200602131032.k1DAW96M012577@my.symsoft.se>

Hi Mark,

Ok found the problem. The short story is that I had defined a CNAME and not
a proper sub domain for mailman. When I fixed this then sendmail could
correctly use the mailertable. Analysis below.

I now have a different problem which is more in the Mailman realm. When I
try to post messages to a list they do not appear in the archives and the
mail is not sent out to members. I have tested with the following:

> su - mailman
> echo "testing" | "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman" post testlist

This message ends up in the moderator queue. I accept the message but it
does not appear in the archives and neither is the mail sent to members.
Nothing useful appears in the /usr/local/mailman/logs files. 
Any ideas?


"User unknown" analysis
=======================
If the "user unknown" problem arises, then sendmail is not 
recognising your domain as a "mailman" domain. 
The problem could be that your mailman.mydomain.com is defined as a 
CNAME not a real DNS record. 

A hint from a tutorial about Masquerading:
http://www.feep.net/sendmail/tutorial/config/masquerading.html
"This address must be an address record in DNS, not simply
a CNAME, or the remote end will canonicalize the address back 
to the original name."

First confirm the problem
# sendmail -bv testlist<at>mailman.mydomain.com
testlist<at>mailman.mydomain.com... User unknown

Then confirm that mailertable is operational
# sendmail -d -bv jbloggs<at>hotmail.com | egrep "map_rewrite|mailertable"
map_lookup(host, hotmail.com) => host_map_lookup(hotmail.com) =>
map_rewrite(hotmail.com), av =
map_rewrite => hotmail.com.
map_lookup(mailertable, hotmail.com) => NOT FOUND (0)
map_lookup(mailertable, .com) => NOT FOUND (0)
map_lookup(mailertable, .) => NOT FOUND (0)

Then confirm that your domain (CNAME) is being canonicalised:
# sendmail -d -bv testlist<at>mailman.mydomain.com | egrep
"map_rewrite|mailertable"
map_lookup(host, mailman.mydomain.com) =>
host_map_lookup(mailman.mydomain.com) => map_rewrite(aserver.mydomain.com),
av =
map_rewrite => aserver.mydomain.com.

Sendmail has done an nslookup and found the real name of your domain which
would not match your settings in mailertable (if sendmail got that far).

If you remove the CNAME and create a real subdomain, then the problem will
go away:
# sendmail -bv testlist<at>mailman.mydomain.com
testlist<at>mailman.mydomain.com... deliverable: mailer mailman, host
testlist<at>mailman.mydomain.com, user testlist

You will still need to create a new CNAME in your sub-domain for Apache to
work.

Conclusion:
It is very important to make clear in the Mailman installation instructions
that a REAL subdomain is needed. Those of us not familiar with DNS (or
sendmail for that matter) can succeed in getting the whole Mailman
installation working including the (Apache) web-interface and subscription
management using just a CNAME and then wonder why we cannot send mail to our
list. Hope this is of use.

Regard,
Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: 12 February 2006 16:57
To: Kevin McNamee; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] sendmail and mm-handler woes

Kevin McNamee wrote:
>
>Yep, I have created my mailertable map also. I am no sendmail expert either
>but I am being forced to look closely at how it is set up. Found a useful
>tutorial here (there are many more): http://www.feep.net/sendmail/tutorial/


When you get this worked out, if you find that the mm-handler.readme is
unclear or needs improvement, please pass along your suggestions so
they can be incorporated in the readme and/or a FAQ.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 13 16:20:47 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 07:20:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help me on LDAPMEMBERADAPTOR-V3.0 very Urgent
In-Reply-To: <20060213071339.M97980@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>
Message-ID: <PC17402006021307204700781242387d@msapiro>

Kabilan L

>admin(5563):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LDAPMemberships.py", line 226,
>in __ldap_load_members_by_group
>admin(5563):     entry = l.search_st(self.__mlist.LDAP_BASE,
>ldap.SCOPE_ONELEVEL ,filterstr=filter)[0]
>admin(5563): IndexError: list index out of range

The search

  l.search_st(self.__mlist.LDAP_BASE,ldap.SCOPE_ONELEVEL
,filterstr=filter)

returned no items. Either it is correct that the LDAP has no entries
that satisfy this search and the code doesn't anticipate this, or your
search parameters defined in extend.py are wrong.

See LDAPMemberships.py for the definition of 'filter' a few lines
before the above search.

BTW, I can't speak for the others on this list, but I don't know LDAP
and can't help with that. I only know Mailman and Python.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 13 16:33:39 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 07:33:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail and mm-handler woes
In-Reply-To: <200602131032.k1DAW96M012577@my.symsoft.se>
Message-ID: <PC174020060213073339076587eb3824@msapiro>

Kevin McNamee wrote:
>
>Ok found the problem. The short story is that I had defined a CNAME and not
>a proper sub domain for mailman. When I fixed this then sendmail could
>correctly use the mailertable. Analysis below.


Thanks for the feedback. I'll update the readme.


>I now have a different problem which is more in the Mailman realm. When I
>try to post messages to a list they do not appear in the archives and the
>mail is not sent out to members. I have tested with the following:
>
>> su - mailman
>> echo "testing" | "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman" post testlist
>
>This message ends up in the moderator queue. I accept the message but it
>does not appear in the archives and neither is the mail sent to members.
>Nothing useful appears in the /usr/local/mailman/logs files. 

I'm surprised that that message got as far as moderation given that it
has no headers.

Have you looked at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>?
Have you tested with a real message, either via email or the above
method or via bin/inject?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Feb 13 16:50:57 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 09:50:57 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help me on LDAPMEMBERADAPTOR-V3.0 very Urgent
In-Reply-To: <20060213071339.M97980@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>
References: <20060213040140.M64441@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>
	<PC1740200602122145440188cb635e48@msapiro>
	<20060213071339.M97980@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602130750q53a8beacrad379258c6d425f6@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/13/06, Kabilan L <nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in> wrote:
> def extend(list):
>     ldap = LDAPMemberships(list)
>     ldap.ldapsearch = "(uid=recipient)"   # your LDAP search here
>     ldap.ldapserver = "127.0.0.1"  # your LDAP server
>     ldap.ldapbasedn = "dc=domain dc=com" # your base DN
>     ldap.ldapbinddn = 'cn=Manager,dc=domain,dc=com'   # bind DN that can
> access 'mail' field
>     ldap.ldappasswd = 'xxxx'                 # bind password for ldapbinddn
>     ldap.LDAP_URL = "ldap://ldap.domain.com:389/"
>     ldap.LDAP_MAIL_ATTRS = ("mail",)
>     ldap.LDAP_LOCALDOMAIN = "domain.com"
>     ldap.LDAP_REALNAME_ATTR = "cn"
>     ldap.LDAP_MAILMEMBER_ATTRS = ("rfc822MailMember",)
>     ldap.LDAP_MEMBER_ATTRS = ("uniqueMember","memberUID")
>     ldap.LDAP_OWNER_ATTR = "owner"
>     ldap.LDAP_LIST_RDN_ATTR = "cn"
>     ldap.LDAP_LIST_CLASSFILTER =
> "(|(objectclass=groupOfUniqueNames)(objectclass=nisMailAlias)(objectclass=groupOfNames))"
>     ldap.LDAP_BASE = "cn=staff,ou=Group,dc=domain,dc=com"
>     list._memberadaptor = ldap
>
>

If all of the above is *exactly* what is in your config file, then
this is part of your problem.
Specifically, ldapserver, ldapbasedn, ldapbinddn, ldappasswd,
LDAP_URP, and LOCALDOMAIN all contain 'generic' example settings which
almost certainly are incorrect.

--
- Patrick Bogen


From charles at stremen.xs4all.nl  Mon Feb 13 17:12:15 2006
From: charles at stremen.xs4all.nl (Charles Stroom)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 17:12:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] internal and external access to Mailman's web site
Message-ID: <20060213161215.07EFA6D6@corrente.localnet>

I apologise if the subject has been handled before; I searched the
archives, but could not find what I wanted to know.

Since short, I am using an ADSL modem, which contains the firewall
as well.  This modem grabs my IP address, and external access to
my web server is done by port forwarding.  This works, no problem.

However, I myself cannot access my web server by it's fully qualified
name (stremen.xs4all.nl), but have to use an internal LAN address
(such as stremen.localnet).  If I access my Mailman web pages, I
have to use this LAN address, however each time I click a related
link, this link points to the FQN, which then does not work;
each time I have to manually change the "stremen.xs4all.nl/" part to
"stremen.localnet/", which is quite annoying.

Is there a solution for this problem?  Have I mis-configured Mailman?
Is this what VIRTUAL_HOSTS is supposed to do?

I should add, that, with the change of modem, I also upgraded my
Linux to SuSE 10.0 with an updated Mailman (2.1.6).  After the
installation of a basic Mailman system, the old lists were simply
copied from the old to the new location.

Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks

Charles Stroom

email: charles at stremen dot xs4all dot nl


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Feb 13 17:22:03 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 10:22:03 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] internal and external access to Mailman's web
	site
In-Reply-To: <20060213161215.07EFA6D6@corrente.localnet>
References: <20060213161215.07EFA6D6@corrente.localnet>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602130822s4cbb455au10cd5cf96378c178@mail.gmail.com>

Can you access mailman pages from outside your network via the
stremen.xs4all.nl address? If so, it might be something weird with the
way your ADSL router/firewall resolves names inside. Specifically, it
might not do port forwarding for accesses on its external IP that
originate from inside the LAN.

If you don't have any systems that move between networks (e.g., a
laptop), the easiest thing would be to add an /etc/hosts entry like:
stremen.xs4all.nu    <iP of mailman box>
Of course, that's assuming the problem is what I describe and not a
server misconfiguration.
A similar trick can be performed in Windows, but I'm not sure of the details.

- Patrick Bogen

On 2/13/06, Charles Stroom <charles at stremen.xs4all.nl> wrote:
> I apologise if the subject has been handled before; I searched the
> archives, but could not find what I wanted to know.
>
> Since short, I am using an ADSL modem, which contains the firewall
> as well.  This modem grabs my IP address, and external access to
> my web server is done by port forwarding.  This works, no problem.
>
> However, I myself cannot access my web server by it's fully qualified
> name (stremen.xs4all.nl), but have to use an internal LAN address
> (such as stremen.localnet).  If I access my Mailman web pages, I
> have to use this LAN address, however each time I click a related
> link, this link points to the FQN, which then does not work;
> each time I have to manually change the "stremen.xs4all.nl/" part to
> "stremen.localnet/", which is quite annoying.
>
> Is there a solution for this problem?  Have I mis-configured Mailman?
> Is this what VIRTUAL_HOSTS is supposed to do?
>
> I should add, that, with the change of modem, I also upgraded my
> Linux to SuSE 10.0 with an updated Mailman (2.1.6).  After the
> installation of a basic Mailman system, the old lists were simply
> copied from the old to the new location.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks
>
> Charles Stroom
>
> email: charles at stremen dot xs4all dot nl
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pdbogen%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


--
- Patrick Bogen


From Jon.Slater at LPBroadband.Net  Mon Feb 13 17:31:00 2006
From: Jon.Slater at LPBroadband.Net (Jon D. Slater)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 09:31:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a security hole in Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <200602121559.k1CFx4nv019990@steeplechase-hoa.org>
Message-ID: <200602131631.k1DGV4xx029037@steeplechase-hoa.org>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+jon.slater=lpbroadband.net at python.org
> [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+jon.slater=lpbroadband.net at python.org] 
> On Behalf Of Jeff Donsbach
> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:10 AM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Is there a security hole in Mailman?
> 
> On 2/12/06, Jon D. Slater <Jon.Slater at lpbroadband.net> wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Is there a security hole in Mailman?
> >
> >
> > How are the evil spammers harvesting my list names when they aren't 
> > on
> the
> > 'listinfo' page?
> >
> 
> >From the address book(s) of one or some of you subscribers infected
> with a virus/worm?
> 
> >
> > And, more importantly, is there a way to prevent it?  (BTW, I'm also
> using
> > SPAM ASSASSIN and a lot of these SPAM messages still get through.)
> >
> 
> Is your list set for "subscribers only" posting? Set your list to hold 
> posts from non-members for moderation.
> 
> Keep feeding the spam messages to "sa-learn".
> 
> Jeff D

I'm already doing that.  My complaint is that I have to go in and manually
reject or ignore these messages.

How are they getting my list names in the first place?

I don't believe this is an issue where an individual user may have been
compromised, because no single user accesses all the groups on all of the
servers.

Jon



From charles at stremen.xs4all.nl  Mon Feb 13 17:46:30 2006
From: charles at stremen.xs4all.nl (Charles Stroom)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 17:46:30 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] internal and external access to Mailman's web
 site
In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 13 Feb 2006 10:22:03 CST.
	<6fbe3da00602130822s4cbb455au10cd5cf96378c178@mail.gmail.com> 
Message-ID: <20060213164630.8B4F46D6@corrente.localnet>



on  Mon, 13 Feb 2006 10:22:03 CST
Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Can you access mailman pages from outside your network via the
> stremen.xs4all.nl address? If so, it might be something weird with the
> way your ADSL router/firewall resolves names inside. Specifically, it
> might not do port forwarding for accesses on its external IP that
> originate from inside the LAN.
> 
> If you don't have any systems that move between networks (e.g., a
> laptop), the easiest thing would be to add an /etc/hosts entry like:
> stremen.xs4all.nu    <iP of mailman box>

The stremen.xs4all.nl and IP number resides in the modem and external
users can indeed access my web site without problem, because external
requests on port 80 are forwarded to my web server.

But you solved my problem: adding stremen.xs4all.nl as an alias to the
internal LAN IP solved it.

Many thanks for such a quick reply.

Charles Stroom

email: charles at stremen dot xs4all dot nl




From Jon.Slater at LPBroadband.Net  Mon Feb 13 17:53:11 2006
From: Jon.Slater at LPBroadband.Net (Jon D. Slater)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 09:53:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a security hole in Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00602130846i20743629oc579341f6be59d05@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200602131653.k1DGrF9F029247@steeplechase-hoa.org>

Some are pretty generic ("board") while others are not
("DesignReviewCommittee").

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patrick Bogen [mailto:pdbogen at gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 9:46 AM
> To: Jon D. Slater
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Is there a security hole in Mailman?
> 
> Do your lists have reasonably common names? "announce" "staff" that
> sort of thing?
> Spammers don't care about bounced messages, so they might just be
> randomly guessing.
> 
> On 2/13/06, Jon D. Slater <Jon.Slater at lpbroadband.net> wrote:
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mailman-users-bounces+jon.slater=lpbroadband.net at python.org
> > > [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+jon.slater=lpbroadband.net at python.org]
> > > On Behalf Of Jeff Donsbach
> > > Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:10 AM
> > > To: mailman-users at python.org
> > > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Is there a security hole in Mailman?
> > >
> > > On 2/12/06, Jon D. Slater <Jon.Slater at lpbroadband.net> wrote:
> > > > Hi All,
> > > >
> > > > Is there a security hole in Mailman?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > How are the evil spammers harvesting my list names when they aren't
> > > > on
> > > the
> > > > 'listinfo' page?
> > > >
> > >
> > > >From the address book(s) of one or some of you subscribers infected
> > > with a virus/worm?
> > >
> > > >
> > > > And, more importantly, is there a way to prevent it?  (BTW, I'm also
> > > using
> > > > SPAM ASSASSIN and a lot of these SPAM messages still get through.)
> > > >
> > >
> > > Is your list set for "subscribers only" posting? Set your list to hold
> > > posts from non-members for moderation.
> > >
> > > Keep feeding the spam messages to "sa-learn".
> > >
> > > Jeff D
> >
> > I'm already doing that.  My complaint is that I have to go in and
> manually
> > reject or ignore these messages.
> >
> > How are they getting my list names in the first place?
> >
> > I don't believe this is an issue where an individual user may have been
> > compromised, because no single user accesses all the groups on all of
> the
> > servers.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users mailing list
> > Mailman-Users at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-
> users%40python.org/
> > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-
> users/pdbogen%40gmail.com
> >
> > Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-
> mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> >
> 
> 
> --
> - Patrick Bogen
> 
> 
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.6/258 - Release Date: 2/13/2006




From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Feb 13 18:19:09 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 11:19:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help me on LDAPMEMBERADAPTOR-V3.0 very Urgent
In-Reply-To: <20060213170122.M56334@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>
References: <20060213040140.M64441@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>
	<PC1740200602122145440188cb635e48@msapiro>
	<20060213071339.M97980@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>
	<6fbe3da00602130750q53a8beacrad379258c6d425f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060213170122.M56334@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602130919p23f1184fw39023a5f492c39ee@mail.gmail.com>

The problem is that you need to replace the generic entries with the
correct values. I don't know what they are for you; you need to speak
with whomever set up the LDAP server in your organization, or at least
someone who knows about it.

On 2/13/06, Kabilan L <nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in> wrote:
> Hai!!
> So u say my extend.py is problem,then please do give me the correct way of
> doing it.how to change things.so it works for me.
>
> Thanking You
>
> Kabilan.L
> Department of Electrical Engineering
> IIT Madras
> Chennai - 600 036
> Tamil Nadu, INDIA
>
>
> "The secret to winning football games is working more as a team, less as
> individuals. I play not my 11 best, but my best 11." ->Knute Rockne
>
>
> ---------- Original Message -----------
> From: Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com>
> To: Kabilan L <nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in>
> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> Sent: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 09:50:57 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Help me on LDAPMEMBERADAPTOR-V3.0 very Urgent
>
> > On 2/13/06, Kabilan L <nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in> wrote:
> > > def extend(list):
> > >     ldap = LDAPMemberships(list)
> > >     ldap.ldapsearch = "(uid=recipient)"   # your LDAP search here
> > >     ldap.ldapserver = "127.0.0.1"  # your LDAP server
> > >     ldap.ldapbasedn = "dc=domain dc=com" # your base DN
> > >     ldap.ldapbinddn = 'cn=Manager,dc=domain,dc=com'   # bind DN that can
> > > access 'mail' field
> > >     ldap.ldappasswd = 'xxxx'                 # bind password for ldapbinddn
> > >     ldap.LDAP_URL = "ldap://ldap.domain.com:389/"
> > >     ldap.LDAP_MAIL_ATTRS = ("mail",)
> > >     ldap.LDAP_LOCALDOMAIN = "domain.com"
> > >     ldap.LDAP_REALNAME_ATTR = "cn"
> > >     ldap.LDAP_MAILMEMBER_ATTRS = ("rfc822MailMember",)
> > >     ldap.LDAP_MEMBER_ATTRS = ("uniqueMember","memberUID")
> > >     ldap.LDAP_OWNER_ATTR = "owner"
> > >     ldap.LDAP_LIST_RDN_ATTR = "cn"
> > >     ldap.LDAP_LIST_CLASSFILTER =
> > >
> "(|(objectclass=groupOfUniqueNames)(objectclass=nisMailAlias)(objectclass=groupOfNames))"
> > >     ldap.LDAP_BASE = "cn=staff,ou=Group,dc=domain,dc=com"
> > >     list._memberadaptor = ldap
> > >
> > >
> >
> > If all of the above is *exactly* what is in your config file, then
> > this is part of your problem.
> > Specifically, ldapserver, ldapbasedn, ldapbinddn, ldappasswd,
> > LDAP_URP, and LOCALDOMAIN all contain 'generic' example settings
> > which almost certainly are incorrect.
> >
> > --
> > - Patrick Bogen
> ------- End of Original Message -------
>
>


--
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Feb 13 18:48:43 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 11:48:43 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help me on LDAPMEMBERADAPTOR-V3.0 very Urgent
In-Reply-To: <20060213172046.M93944@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>
References: <20060213040140.M64441@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>
	<PC1740200602122145440188cb635e48@msapiro>
	<20060213071339.M97980@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>
	<6fbe3da00602130750q53a8beacrad379258c6d425f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060213170122.M56334@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>
	<6fbe3da00602130919p23f1184fw39023a5f492c39ee@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060213172046.M93944@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602130948ha3b3566n4eb9dc9b37456dd4@mail.gmail.com>

Can you please send your configuration values to the list? Make sure
to censor any passwords that may be present.
(It looks like something is wrong with the 'LDAP_OWNER_ATTR' value)

P.s., make sure to 'reply to all' so that the list gets your posts as well.

On 2/13/06, Kabilan L <nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in> wrote:
> Hai!!!
> Thank u Patrick.I changed the config to correct values still i have this problem
>
> admin(9022):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in run_main
> admin(9022):     main()
> admin(9022):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 198, in main
> admin(9022):     show_results(mlist, doc, category, subcat, cgidata)
> admin(9022):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 498, in
> show_results
> admin(9022):     form.AddItem(membership_options(mlist, subcat, cgidata, doc,
> form))
> admin(9022):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 870, in
> membership_options
> admin(9022):     all = [_m.encode() for _m in mlist.getMembers()]
> admin(9022):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LDAPMemberships.py", line 263,
> in getMembers
> admin(9022):     return self.__ldap_get_members()
> admin(9022):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LDAPMemberships.py", line 246,
> in __ldap_get_members
> admin(9022):     self.__ldap_load_members_by_group()
> admin(9022):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LDAPMemberships.py", line 231,
> in __ldap_load_members_by_group
> admin(9022):     ownerdn = attrs[self.__mlist.LDAP_OWNER_ATTR][0]
> admin(9022): KeyError: 'owner'
>
> Any suggestion!! Thank You!!
>
>
>
> Kabilan.L
> Department of Electrical Engineering
> IIT Madras
> Chennai - 600 036
> Tamil Nadu, INDIA
>
>
> "The secret to winning football games is working more as a team, less as
> individuals. I play not my 11 best, but my best 11." ->Knute Rockne
>
>
> ---------- Original Message -----------
> From: Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com>
> To: Kabilan L <nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in>
> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> Sent: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 11:19:09 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Help me on LDAPMEMBERADAPTOR-V3.0 very Urgent
>
> > The problem is that you need to replace the generic entries with the
> > correct values. I don't know what they are for you; you need to speak
> > with whomever set up the LDAP server in your organization, or at
> > least someone who knows about it.
> >
> > On 2/13/06, Kabilan L <nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in> wrote:
> > > Hai!!
> > > So u say my extend.py is problem,then please do give me the correct way of
> > > doing it.how to change things.so it works for me.
> > >
> > > Thanking You
> > >
> > > Kabilan.L
> > > Department of Electrical Engineering
> > > IIT Madras
> > > Chennai - 600 036
> > > Tamil Nadu, INDIA
> > >
> > >
> > > "The secret to winning football games is working more as a team, less as
> > > individuals. I play not my 11 best, but my best 11." ->Knute Rockne
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------- Original Message -----------
> > > From: Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com>
> > > To: Kabilan L <nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in>
> > > Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> > > Sent: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 09:50:57 -0600
> > > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Help me on LDAPMEMBERADAPTOR-V3.0 very Urgent
> > >
> > > > On 2/13/06, Kabilan L <nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in> wrote:
> > > > > def extend(list):
> > > > >     ldap = LDAPMemberships(list)
> > > > >     ldap.ldapsearch = "(uid=recipient)"   # your LDAP search here
> > > > >     ldap.ldapserver = "127.0.0.1"  # your LDAP server
> > > > >     ldap.ldapbasedn = "dc=domain dc=com" # your base DN
> > > > >     ldap.ldapbinddn = 'cn=Manager,dc=domain,dc=com'   # bind DN that can
> > > > > access 'mail' field
> > > > >     ldap.ldappasswd = 'xxxx'                 # bind password for
> ldapbinddn
> > > > >     ldap.LDAP_URL = "ldap://ldap.domain.com:389/"
> > > > >     ldap.LDAP_MAIL_ATTRS = ("mail",)
> > > > >     ldap.LDAP_LOCALDOMAIN = "domain.com"
> > > > >     ldap.LDAP_REALNAME_ATTR = "cn"
> > > > >     ldap.LDAP_MAILMEMBER_ATTRS = ("rfc822MailMember",)
> > > > >     ldap.LDAP_MEMBER_ATTRS = ("uniqueMember","memberUID")
> > > > >     ldap.LDAP_OWNER_ATTR = "owner"
> > > > >     ldap.LDAP_LIST_RDN_ATTR = "cn"
> > > > >     ldap.LDAP_LIST_CLASSFILTER =
> > > > >
> > >
> "(|(objectclass=groupOfUniqueNames)(objectclass=nisMailAlias)(objectclass=groupOfNames))"
> > > > >     ldap.LDAP_BASE = "cn=staff,ou=Group,dc=domain,dc=com"
> > > > >     list._memberadaptor = ldap
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > If all of the above is *exactly* what is in your config file, then
> > > > this is part of your problem.
> > > > Specifically, ldapserver, ldapbasedn, ldapbinddn, ldappasswd,
> > > > LDAP_URP, and LOCALDOMAIN all contain 'generic' example settings
> > > > which almost certainly are incorrect.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > - Patrick Bogen
> > > ------- End of Original Message -------
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > - Patrick Bogen
> ------- End of Original Message -------
>
>


--
- Patrick Bogen


From nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in  Mon Feb 13 18:19:26 2006
From: nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in (Kabilan L)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 22:49:26 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help me on LDAPMEMBERADAPTOR-V3.0 very Urgent
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006021307204700781242387d@msapiro>
References: <20060213071339.M97980@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>
	<PC17402006021307204700781242387d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060213171103.M517@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>

HAI!!
Thanks Mark. I too found that the follwoing didn't work gave nothing in my case.
"(|(objectclass=groupOfUniqueNames)(objectclass=nisMailAlias)(objectclass=groupOfNames))"
So i changed it in extend.py
 "(|(objectclass=posixGroup)(objectclass=top))"

Now i could see the in openldap.log mailman is talking with ldap and has some
details like cn=staff,Group ... etc.But I face a new problem
that is 

File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in run_main
admin(9022):     main()
admin(9022):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 198, in main
admin(9022):     show_results(mlist, doc, category, subcat, cgidata)
admin(9022):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 498, in
show_results
admin(9022):     form.AddItem(membership_options(mlist, subcat, cgidata, doc,
form))
admin(9022):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 870, in
membership_options
admin(9022):     all = [_m.encode() for _m in mlist.getMembers()]
admin(9022):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LDAPMemberships.py", line 263,
in getMembers
admin(9022):     return self.__ldap_get_members()
admin(9022):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LDAPMemberships.py", line 246,
in __ldap_get_members
admin(9022):     self.__ldap_load_members_by_group()
admin(9022):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LDAPMemberships.py", line 231,
in __ldap_load_members_by_group
admin(9022):     ownerdn = attrs[self.__mlist.LDAP_OWNER_ATTR][0]
admin(9022): KeyError: 'owner'

what is the solution?I have it like the below one.
I want to know what values can i give to the following.Is it correct to have
default onces.

ldap.LDAP_MEMBER_ATTRS = ("uniqueMember","memberUID")
ldap.LDAP_OWNER_ATTR = "owner"
Help me Please
Thanking You All!!

Kabilan.L
Department of Electrical Engineering
IIT Madras
Chennai - 600 036
Tamil Nadu, INDIA


"The secret to winning football games is working more as a team, less as
individuals. I play not my 11 best, but my best 11." ->Knute Rockne


---------- Original Message -----------
From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
To: "Kabilan L" <nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in>, mailman-users at python.org
Sent: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 07:20:47 -0800
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Help me on LDAPMEMBERADAPTOR-V3.0 very Urgent

> Kabilan L
> 
> >admin(5563):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LDAPMemberships.py", line 226,
> >in __ldap_load_members_by_group
> >admin(5563):     entry = l.search_st(self.__mlist.LDAP_BASE,
> >ldap.SCOPE_ONELEVEL ,filterstr=filter)[0]
> >admin(5563): IndexError: list index out of range
> 
> The search
> 
>   l.search_st(self.__mlist.LDAP_BASE,ldap.SCOPE_ONELEVEL
> ,filterstr=filter)
> 
> returned no items. Either it is correct that the LDAP has no entries
> that satisfy this search and the code doesn't anticipate this, or 
> your search parameters defined in extend.py are wrong.
> 
> See LDAPMemberships.py for the definition of 'filter' a few lines
> before the above search.
> 
> BTW, I can't speak for the others on this list, but I don't know LDAP
> and can't help with that. I only know Mailman and Python.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
------- End of Original Message -------



From mfatihakbulut at gmail.com  Mon Feb 13 19:23:35 2006
From: mfatihakbulut at gmail.com (Mehmet Fatih AKBULUT)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 20:23:35 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to change page sources ?
Message-ID: <eed667140602131023n7c04f4e5mddc4fdd41d85c5df@mail.gmail.com>

hi all,
how can i change the mailman pages ?
which files do i have to edit ?
by the way, i am not actually much familiar with python. installed mailman a
few days ago, and couldnt see any htmls to play with codes ;)
so please tell me how to edit mailman if possible ?
thanks in advance.

[i want to edit colours, icons ... etc]


From beartooth at adelphia.net  Mon Feb 13 14:41:11 2006
From: beartooth at adelphia.net (beartooth)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 08:41:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VDQ  : editiing??
Message-ID: <pan.2006.02.13.13.41.10.914120@adelphia.net>


Complete beginner here, with a Very Dumb Question : can I edit messages to
be posted?

I've been running a jokeswap list manually for a long time. I often modify
what's sent to me, for spelling, grammar, formatting, and sometimes other
things; I suspect my subscribers like the results, whether or not they
have any idea what I do or when I do it.

I'm considering automating that list. I don't see any way I can get into
the text of a message sent to Mailman and edit it. Is there one?

I suppose I could go on having posters send to my personal account, edit
from there as usual, and forward to the list address; but that defeats
most of the purpose of automating ...

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, Neo-Redneck Linux Convert
FC4; Pine 4.64, Pan 0.14.2.91; Privoxy 3.0.3; 
Dillo 0.8.5, Opera 8.51, Firefox 1.0.7, Epiphany 1.6.5
Remember I have little idea what I am talking about.




From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 13 19:46:24 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 10:46:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to change page sources ?
In-Reply-To: <eed667140602131023n7c04f4e5mddc4fdd41d85c5df@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006021310462406099d80d179@msapiro>

Mehmet Fatih AKBULUT wrote:

>how can i change the mailman pages ?
>which files do i have to edit ?


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 13 19:51:11 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 10:51:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to change page sources ?
In-Reply-To: <eed667140602131023n7c04f4e5mddc4fdd41d85c5df@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006021310511109842d7a8823@msapiro>

Mehmet Fatih AKBULUT wrote:
>
>[i want to edit colours, icons ... etc]


Also (in addition to the FAQ I mentioned in my first reply), see the
"Web UI defaults" section in Defaults.py. If you want to change
anything, this is done by putting the changes in mm_cfg.py. Don't
change Defaults.py itself.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From beartooth at adelphia.net  Mon Feb 13 19:56:02 2006
From: beartooth at adelphia.net (beartooth)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 13:56:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DISREGARD Re: VDQ  : editiing??
References: <pan.2006.02.13.13.41.10.914120@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2006.02.13.18.56.02.762685@adelphia.net>

On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 08:41:11 -0500, beartooth wrote:

> 
> Complete beginner here, with a Very Dumb Question : can I edit messages to
> be posted?

Discovered I couldn't just post from Gmane; found the subscription page;
found the FAQ; got my answer, and used it, successfully. Iow, the system
worked. Sorry for the waste of bandwidth!

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, Neo-Redneck Linux Convert
FC4; Pine 4.64, Pan 0.14.2.91; Privoxy 3.0.3; 
Dillo 0.8.5, Opera 8.51, Firefox 1.0.7, Epiphany 1.6.5
Remember I have little idea what I am talking about.




From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 13 19:56:59 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 10:56:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VDQ  : editiing??
In-Reply-To: <pan.2006.02.13.13.41.10.914120@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402006021310565907349911e419@msapiro>

beartooth wrote:
>
>Complete beginner here, with a Very Dumb Question : can I edit messages to
>be posted?


Not conveniently, but see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.009.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 13 20:42:31 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 11:42:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help me on LDAPMEMBERADAPTOR-V3.0 very Urgent
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00602130948ha3b3566n4eb9dc9b37456dd4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006021311423109684dacd507@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
>P.s., make sure to 'reply to all' so that the list gets your posts as well.


I second the above.


>On 2/13/06, Kabilan L <nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in> wrote:

<snip>
>> admin(9022):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LDAPMemberships.py", line 231,
>> in __ldap_load_members_by_group
>> admin(9022):     ownerdn = attrs[self.__mlist.LDAP_OWNER_ATTR][0]
>> admin(9022): KeyError: 'owner'


You are getting just a little bit further. LDAPMemberships has
retrieved something via an LDAP query and is processing first item in
the retrieved list. This in turn is another list, the second item of
which is assigned to 'attrs' and is apparently a dictionary. Then the
key 'owner' which is something you assigned to LDAP_OWNER_ATTR in
extend.py is looked up in the dictionary and is not found. If I had to
guess what this means, I'd guess that there is no field named 'owner'
in the LDAP record, but that's only a guess (count how many times the
word 'guess' appears).

That is what is happening to cause this error.

In order to fix it, you must understand the LDAP data you are
retrieving and how to set the various things in extend.py to make it
work. The reason all these ldap.LDAP_* attributes are assigned in
extend.py and not hard coded in LDAPMemberships.py is that they need
to be tailored to the LDAP data and the list, and this needs to be
done with an understanding of the LDAP data.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 13 21:35:38 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 12:35:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a security hole in Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <200602131631.k1DGV4xx029037@steeplechase-hoa.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602131235380390e215760c@msapiro>

Jon D. Slater wrote:
>
>How are they getting my list names in the first place?
>
>I don't believe this is an issue where an individual user may have been
>compromised, because no single user accesses all the groups on all of the
>servers.


It's likely you are correct, but you may be surprised if you could find
how many of your list members have spyware on their machines.

How do people find out about your lists? Any possibility of a leak
there?

You don't mention archives. Do your lists have public archives?

As far as your original question is concerned, I don't think we're
aware of any way for list names/posting addresses to be available via
your web server as long as your lists are not 'advertised', your
archives are private and your web server runs as a user/group that
can't directly access your Mailman installation.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Mon Feb 13 20:47:38 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 11:47:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription settings not taking
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0602131142160.16067@titan.lserv.com>

 	I go to http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users > 
give it my address, in the unsubscribe/change options box > get the 
password screen, and give it my password > get to the options page, 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users > make changes > 
click on Submit My Changes -- and get the password request back!

 	I give it again, get the options, find nothing changed, change 
things again, and the whole nine yards. No joy.

 	I want to follow this list on Gmane, *not* my inbox. Why won't 
it let me? Normally, only majordomo has this problem -- and iirc, even 
it doesn't always...

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, PhD, Neo-Redneck Linux Convert
What do they know of country, who only country know?


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 13 21:53:52 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 15:53:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a security hole in Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602131235380390e215760c@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200602131235380390e215760c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43F0F1E0.50807@yahoo.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> As far as your original question is concerned, I don't think we're
> aware of any way for list names/posting addresses to be available via
> your web server as long as your lists are not 'advertised', your
> archives are private and your web server runs as a user/group that
> can't directly access your Mailman installation.

Side question:  If the webserver is running as a user/group that can't 
directly access the Mailman installation, how can Mailman web interfaces 
work?  Perhaps you mean something else by the above?

-Jim P.





From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 13 21:57:07 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 12:57:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription settings not taking
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0602131142160.16067@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602131257070203de249912@msapiro>

Beartooth wrote:

> 	I go to http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users > 
>give it my address, in the unsubscribe/change options box > get the 
>password screen, and give it my password > get to the options page, 
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users > make changes > 
>click on Submit My Changes -- and get the password request back!

The most common cause of this as noted on the login page is "Important:
>From this point on, you must have cookies enabled in your browser,
otherwise none of your changes will take effect."

If you're sure your browser is accepting cookies, it may be that a
local firewall or something similar is interfering with setting and
returning cookies.

Most of the other reasons for this kind of behavior are on the server
side, but in this case, we know the server side works as long as you
accept and return the cookie.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 13 22:01:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 13:01:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a security hole in Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <43F0F1E0.50807@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060213130133034393f04818@msapiro>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
>
>Side question:  If the webserver is running as a user/group that can't 
>directly access the Mailman installation, how can Mailman web interfaces 
>work?  Perhaps you mean something else by the above?


The web interface accesses Mailman through setgid wrappers. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kevin.mcnamee at symsoft.se  Mon Feb 13 22:04:39 2006
From: kevin.mcnamee at symsoft.se (Kevin McNamee)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 22:04:39 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail and mm-handler woes
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060213073339076587eb3824@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200602132104.k1DL4doh019140@my.symsoft.se>

Hi,

For the record I am running on Solaris 10 and I am using the mm-handler. 

When I send a mail (from Outlook) with DEBUG turned on in mm-handler, I get
a "Returned mail" with the debug output. So it seems that that is working.

Without DEBUG it does not reach Mailman moderation. I tried to send the same
message on the command line:

> su - mailman
> cat testmsg.txt | /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post testlist

And this got to the moderation queue. Since the testmsg.txt includes headers
I also got a message back from testlist-bounces saying that my message was
awaiting approval.

When I accept the message, it does not appear in the archive.

There seems to be two problems here:
  1) messages not reaching Mailman from Outlook/mm-handler
  2) approved messages not being archived (or sent to members).

Perhaps this is just an archiving problem. If the processing steps are
  moderation -> archiving -> post to members

Looking at the lists/testlist/digest.mbox I can see that the messages are in
the file! Trying a different approach I created a new list called "foobar"
and suddenly my test messages to foobar are archived and posted to members!

Still have a problem sending mail from Outlook. Tried directly with sendmail

echo "From: kevin.mcnamee<at>symsoft.se
To: foobar<at>mailman.symsoft.se
Subject: Test
test mail body
" | /usr/sbin/sendmail -v -fkevin.mcnamee<at>symsoft.se
foobar<at>mailman.symsoft.se

Still no luck. I will continue testing. Any help appreciated.


Some comments on the FAQ:
============================
Step 1) This 
    ps -aux| grep mailmanctl |grep -v grep
should be replaced with this
    ps -ef | grep qrunner |grep -v grep

Step 3) To locate the smrsh directory try
    strings /usr/lib/smrsh | grep sm.bin

Step 4) I ran 'netstat -na |grep ":25 "' but I did not get any result.

Step 6) This step is confusing. I have lock files and the process that
created the lock does exist.  Does this step say that I can delete them
anyway or that I should only delete them if there is no process found?


Regards,
Kevin





From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 13 22:08:29 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 16:08:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a security hole in Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060213130133034393f04818@msapiro>
References: <PC174020060213130133034393f04818@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43F0F54D.2050001@yahoo.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Jim Popovitch wrote:
>> Side question:  If the webserver is running as a user/group that can't 
>> directly access the Mailman installation, how can Mailman web interfaces 
>> work?  Perhaps you mean something else by the above?
> 
> 
> The web interface accesses Mailman through setgid wrappers. See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>.

OK, but just to be clear, those wrappers (default location is 
/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin) need to be accessible by the webserver.  So, 
is it safe to assume that only cgi-bin needs world read/executable 
permissions?  Can I "chmod -R o=" everything in /usr/local/mailman/ 
except cgi-bin/ and mail/?

-Jim P.



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 13 22:30:11 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 13:30:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a security hole in Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <43F0F54D.2050001@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602131330110375eaf9ab02@msapiro>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
>
>OK, but just to be clear, those wrappers (default location is 
>/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin) need to be accessible by the webserver.  So, 
>is it safe to assume that only cgi-bin needs world read/executable 
>permissions?  Can I "chmod -R o=" everything in /usr/local/mailman/ 
>except cgi-bin/ and mail/?


Not quite. The remaining issue is archives because public archives are
the only things that are not accessed through a wrapper. That's an
important access issue, i.e. forcing private archive access to be only
via the 'private' wrapper/script which forces authentication.

Because public archives are accessed directly by the web server via the
'pipermail' alias and the symlinks in archives/public, the
archives/private/<listname>/ directories and their subordinate archive
contents must be accessible by 'other', but the archives/private/
directory itself has permissions 02771 to prevent 'other' getting the
names of the lists by reading the directory.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Feb 13 22:32:07 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 15:32:07 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems sending to list
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602121045590578b1a6309d@msapiro>
References: <6fbe3da00602120920v5221eb40wafa96d9e28c36537@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200602121045590578b1a6309d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602131332w115e21b8k183fb16356be2af2@mail.gmail.com>

I don't /think/ it's bounce notices. The sendmail logs don't seem to
reflect that.
Rather, I think this has to do with the fact that when the messages
are sent out, the 'To:' header still contains
announce at physics.tamu.edu even though it reports a different RCPT TO
in smtp?
I've set procmail to carbon copy anything that passes through (mailman
has its own procmail file on my config), and this seems to be what is
happening.
So, everything is right in:
(1) I send mail to announce
(2) Message hits sendmail
(3) matches aliases
(4) Goes to procmail
(5) Procmail matches on To: ...
(6) Sends to mailman
(7) Mailman sends to members
(8) Any members that aren't mailman lists are delivered
(9) Mailman lists, however, restart at step (2), but To: still looks
like announce at physics.tamu.edu, so they are discarded at step #7.

The key problem is that procmail can only see the message and its
headers, which don't seem to give an indication at this stage that the
message was sent to anything other than announce.. Sendmail knows,
because it's dispatching them to the proper alias.

There are a couple of possible patches to this (mucking with
environment variables at the same time I send to procmail, using a
seperate procmail config file for each list) but none of these are
ideal.

Am I seeing the correct behaviour from procmail, that the To: is
maintained as the list address? Is it a privacy issue that the
addresses are kept out of the headers? Is there an easy way to change
this behaviour, or are there concerns with it that I'm not seeing?

I can always have procmail strip out extra headers that I don't want
after the fact.

On 2/12/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
> >The various log entries are:
> >Post:
> >Feb 09 11:25:52 2006 (20476) post to announce from
> >root at mail.physics.tamu.edu, size=3D1924,
> >message-id=3D<200602091725.k19HPmje010926 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>,
> >success
> <snip>
>
> Just looking at one ... Successfully posted
>
> >
> >Corresponding in smtp:
> >Feb 09 11:25:52 2006 (20476)
> ><200602091725.k19HPmje010926 at mail.physics.tamu.edu> smtp for 13
> >recips, completed in 0.704 seconds
>
> Successfully delivered to the MTA with 13 recips.
>
>
> >And then a few seconds after each one in vette:
> >Feb 09 11:26:05 2006 (20474) Message discarded, msgid:
> ><200602091725.k19HPmje010926 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>
> >Feb 09 11:26:07 2006 (20474) Message discarded, msgid:
> ><200602091725.k19HPmje010926 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>
> >Feb 09 11:26:09 2006 (20474) Message discarded, msgid:
> ><200602091725.k19HPmje010926 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>
>
>
> Then for this message (I'm guessing) three bounces returned by the MTA,
> misdirected to the list and discarded as post from non-member.
>
>
> >It'll take me a bit longer to pull the applicable sendmail and
> >procmail logs. Nothing looks amiss in procmail, though; it matches on
> >^TO_announce at physics.tamu.edu and sends it along to the mailman
> >handler as it should.
> >
> >What I'd really like to see is a snapshot of the actual messages that
> >are being send to the smtp server.. I probably know enough python to
> >hack that in myself, though. I'll look at that on Tuesday.
>
> As a first try, set Privacy options...->Sender
> filters->forward_auto_discards to Yes, but this won't work unless the
> announce-owner address is deliverable, because that's where the
> forward is initially sent. See do_discard() in
> Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py if you want to hack in a different
> address.
>
> You could also set generic_nonmember_action to Hold which should make
> the message available in the admindb interface.
>
> Note the above suggestins assume that the discarded messages are auto
> discards of bounce notices that are treated as non-member posts which
> may not be what's happening.
>
> You can also hack bulk_deliver() in Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py to
> log recips and msgtext.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


--
- Patrick Bogen


From he at reclaimedcomputers.ca  Mon Feb 13 22:18:11 2006
From: he at reclaimedcomputers.ca (Hugh Esco)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 13:18:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pls help debug mm-postfix disconnect.  Thanks.
Message-ID: <20060213131811.692db630.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>

Hello folks:  

Where do I look, what do I do next?

This mailman instance is giving me fits.  It is one of four mailman installations on this server and at least one of them has been in active use since December.  I created this one in January, my test posts show up in the online archives.  But no mail seems to be getting off the server -- from this mailman installation, even as mail sent from the command line and mail sent with the Leyland list is getting out.  The MTA is postfix.  

main.cf includes the following, with the Leyland lists working, but the dev lists not:  

# Mailman Specific Settings
owner_request_special = no
alias_maps = hash:/u/l/leyland06mm/mailman/data/aliases
             hash:/u/d/devmm/mailman/data/aliases

# Virtual hosts
virtual_alias_domains = electleyland.ca
			dev.greenparty.ca
			
virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual
			hash:/u/l/leyland06mm/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
			hash:/u/d/devmm/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

All my qrunners seem to be running:

[02:01:21]<hesco at www1:~> ps aux | grep qrun | grep dev
devmm    22897  0.0  0.6   8684  6228 ?        S     2005   0:00 /usr/bin/python /u/d/devmm/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
devmm    22898  0.0  0.5   8264  5676 ?        S     2005   0:00 /usr/bin/python /u/d/devmm/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
devmm    22899  0.0  0.5   8252  5664 ?        S     2005   0:00 /usr/bin/python /u/d/devmm/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
devmm    22900  0.0  0.5   8512  5984 ?        S     2005   0:00 /usr/bin/python /u/d/devmm/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
devmm    22901  0.0  0.5   8224  5700 ?        S     2005   0:00 /usr/bin/python /u/d/devmm/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
devmm    22902  0.0  0.5   8584  6012 ?        S     2005   0:00 /usr/bin/python /u/d/devmm/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
devmm    22903  0.0  0.5   8512  5908 ?        S     2005   0:01 /usr/bin/python /u/d/devmm/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
devmm    22904  0.0  0.5   8252  5656 ?        S     2005   0:00 /usr/bin/python /u/d/devmm/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
[02:18:15]<hesco at www1:~>

My MTA's logs seem useless on this point:  

[02:15:31]<root at www1:/u/d/devmm/mailman> ls /var/log/postfix/ -lt
total 0
-rwxr-x---  1 postfix postfix 0 Dec 14 04:42 errorlog
-rwxr-x---  1 postfix postfix 0 Dec 14 04:41 maillog

-- 
RCK Computer Services 
http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Feb 13 22:55:57 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 15:55:57 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pls help debug mm-postfix disconnect. Thanks.
In-Reply-To: <20060213131811.692db630.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
References: <20060213131811.692db630.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602131355pc0dacb6ufcfe1186d39e5241@mail.gmail.com>

I don't know postfix very well, but the points that I'd look at are:
Is a newline and whitespace the proper separate for separate entries
in alias_maps, virtual_alias_domains, and virtual_alias_maps?
Are the permissions on alias_maps correct?
Is dev.greenparty.ca resolving correctly on the mail host (I don't
know if this even matters, but may as well check, yes?)?
Do the mailman logs show anything interesting?

On 2/13/06, Hugh Esco <he at reclaimedcomputers.ca> wrote:
> Hello folks:
>
> Where do I look, what do I do next?
>
> This mailman instance is giving me fits.  It is one of four mailman installations on this server and at least one of them has been in active use since December.  I created this one in January, my test posts show up in the online archives.  But no mail seems to be getting off the server -- from this mailman installation, even as mail sent from the command line and mail sent with the Leyland list is getting out.  The MTA is postfix.
>
> main.cf includes the following, with the Leyland lists working, but the dev lists not:
>
> # Mailman Specific Settings
> owner_request_special = no
> alias_maps = hash:/u/l/leyland06mm/mailman/data/aliases
>              hash:/u/d/devmm/mailman/data/aliases
>
> # Virtual hosts
> virtual_alias_domains = electleyland.ca
>                         dev.greenparty.ca
>
> virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual
>                         hash:/u/l/leyland06mm/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
>                         hash:/u/d/devmm/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
>
> All my qrunners seem to be running:
>
> [02:01:21]<hesco at www1:~> ps aux | grep qrun | grep dev
> devmm    22897  0.0  0.6   8684  6228 ?        S     2005   0:00 /usr/bin/python /u/d/devmm/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
> devmm    22898  0.0  0.5   8264  5676 ?        S     2005   0:00 /usr/bin/python /u/d/devmm/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
> devmm    22899  0.0  0.5   8252  5664 ?        S     2005   0:00 /usr/bin/python /u/d/devmm/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
> devmm    22900  0.0  0.5   8512  5984 ?        S     2005   0:00 /usr/bin/python /u/d/devmm/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
> devmm    22901  0.0  0.5   8224  5700 ?        S     2005   0:00 /usr/bin/python /u/d/devmm/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
> devmm    22902  0.0  0.5   8584  6012 ?        S     2005   0:00 /usr/bin/python /u/d/devmm/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
> devmm    22903  0.0  0.5   8512  5908 ?        S     2005   0:01 /usr/bin/python /u/d/devmm/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
> devmm    22904  0.0  0.5   8252  5656 ?        S     2005   0:00 /usr/bin/python /u/d/devmm/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
> [02:18:15]<hesco at www1:~>
>
> My MTA's logs seem useless on this point:
>
> [02:15:31]<root at www1:/u/d/devmm/mailman> ls /var/log/postfix/ -lt
> total 0
> -rwxr-x---  1 postfix postfix 0 Dec 14 04:42 errorlog
> -rwxr-x---  1 postfix postfix 0 Dec 14 04:41 maillog
>
> --
> RCK Computer Services
> http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pdbogen%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


--
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 13 22:56:34 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 13:56:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems sending to list
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00602131332w115e21b8k183fb16356be2af2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006021313563400310c5cb4e1@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>I don't /think/ it's bounce notices. The sendmail logs don't seem to
>reflect that.
>Rather, I think this has to do with the fact that when the messages
>are sent out, the 'To:' header still contains
>announce at physics.tamu.edu even though it reports a different RCPT TO
>in smtp?
>I've set procmail to carbon copy anything that passes through (mailman
>has its own procmail file on my config), and this seems to be what is
>happening.
>So, everything is right in:
>(1) I send mail to announce
>(2) Message hits sendmail
>(3) matches aliases
>(4) Goes to procmail
>(5) Procmail matches on To: ...
>(6) Sends to mailman
>(7) Mailman sends to members
>(8) Any members that aren't mailman lists are delivered
>(9) Mailman lists, however, restart at step (2), but To: still looks
>like announce at physics.tamu.edu, so they are discarded at step #7.


I agree with your analysis.


>The key problem is that procmail can only see the message and its
>headers, which don't seem to give an indication at this stage that the
>message was sent to anything other than announce.. Sendmail knows,
>because it's dispatching them to the proper alias.


*Your* procmail only sees headers and body. Consider in .procmailrc


EnvelopeTo = $1

:0
* EnvelopeTo ?? ^mailman$
|sudo -u mailman /var/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman
:E
* EnvelopeTo ?? ^mailman-admin$
|sudo -u mailman /var/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman
 etc.
and similarly for the other lists.

Then in sendmail.mc, you invove procmail with a -a argument equal to
the envelope recipient (-a $h I think but don't hold me to it).


>There are a couple of possible patches to this (mucking with
>environment variables at the same time I send to procmail, using a
>seperate procmail config file for each list) but none of these are
>ideal.


Don't need to do that. Just pass the envelope recipient to procmail as
above.


>Am I seeing the correct behaviour from procmail, that the To: is
>maintained as the list address? Is it a privacy issue that the
>addresses are kept out of the headers? Is there an easy way to change
>this behaviour, or are there concerns with it that I'm not seeing?


You can set full personalization for the list (if
OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes in mm_cfg.py) which will send
a separate message to each recipient with that recipient address in
To:, but you don't need to do that (am I repeating myself).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 13 23:09:09 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 14:09:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pls help debug mm-postfix disconnect. Thanks.
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00602131355pc0dacb6ufcfe1186d39e5241@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006021314090908124b1af7d5@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>I don't know postfix very well, but the points that I'd look at are:
>Is a newline and whitespace the proper separate for separate entries
>in alias_maps, virtual_alias_domains, and virtual_alias_maps?
>Are the permissions on alias_maps correct?


I don't think any of this matters because the problem is with outgoing
mail. These all have to do with delivering incoming mail to Mailman
which is working as posts are reaching the archive.


>Do the mailman logs show anything interesting?


Good question.


>On 2/13/06, Hugh Esco <he at reclaimedcomputers.ca> wrote:
>>
>> This mailman instance is giving me fits.  It is one of four mailman installations on this server and at least one of them has been in active use since December.  I created this one in January, my test posts show up in the online archives.  But no mail seems to be getting off the server -- from this mailman installation, even as mail sent from the command line and mail sent with the Leyland list is getting out.  The MTA is postfix.
<snip>
>> All my qrunners seem to be running:


Good.


>> My MTA's logs seem useless on this point:
>>
>> [02:15:31]<root at www1:/u/d/devmm/mailman> ls /var/log/postfix/ -lt
>> total 0
>> -rwxr-x---  1 postfix postfix 0 Dec 14 04:42 errorlog
>> -rwxr-x---  1 postfix postfix 0 Dec 14 04:41 maillog

So there's nothing at all in the Postfix logs? Not even a startup
message? Are you sure these are the right logs?

Check Mailman's post, smtp and smtp-failure logs. In particular, if
smtp says "smtp for n recips, completed" the post was given to the MTA
and it's out of Mailman's hands.

Is there anything im Mailman's error log? Is anything in qfiles/out/ or
qfiles/retry/?

See FAQ
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From he at reclaimedcomputers.ca  Mon Feb 13 22:26:12 2006
From: he at reclaimedcomputers.ca (Hugh Esco)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 13:26:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Printer disappeared from lsusb
Message-ID: <20060213132612.5f290d4c.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>

Hello all:  

Perhaps this is more of a usb question than a cups question, but I wasn't quite sure where to turn on this one.  About a month or so ago, I ran out of toner for my Samsung ML-1520.  Finally about two weeks ago, I got a new toner cartridge.  But when I installed it, I was left with both the Online/Error and the Toner Save leds are both glowing green.  

Using lp and the cgi test page button, I am unable to get a job to print.  I purge the stuck jobs, restart the cupsys server and still nothing.  I used cat file.ps > /dev/usb/lp0, which is the port recorded in /etc/printers.conf as the one which used to work.  I get a no such device error.  I crawl under the workbench again, check the physical connections.  They all seem to be ok.  But lsusb returns:  

hesco at marcus2:~$ lsusb
Bus 004 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
Bus 003 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 0000:0000

without identifying the printer.  

Can anyone please advise me how I might trouble shoot this and get this brand new printer back up and working?  

Thanks, 
-- Hugh 

--
RCK Computer Services 
http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 13 23:15:36 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 14:15:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems sending to list
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00602131332w115e21b8k183fb16356be2af2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006021314153604840725f248@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
>Am I seeing the correct behaviour from procmail, that the To: is
>maintained as the list address? Is it a privacy issue that the
>addresses are kept out of the headers?

I didn't address this in my previous reply, so for completeness - it's
not a privacy issue, it's a performance issue because it requires a
separate SMTP transaction with the full message for each recipient.

OTOH, there are other benefits such as being able to VERP all message
sends for better bounce processing at no extra cost and being able to
include personalized information in message headers and footers such
as is done on the mailman-users list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kevin.mcnamee at symsoft.se  Mon Feb 13 23:19:58 2006
From: kevin.mcnamee at symsoft.se (Kevin McNamee)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 23:19:58 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail and mm-handler woes
In-Reply-To: <200602132104.k1DL4doh019140@my.symsoft.se>
Message-ID: <200602132220.k1DMJwMP026215@my.symsoft.se>

It comes down to this.

This works:
===================
echo "From: kevin.mcnamee<at>symsoft.se
To: foobar<at>mailman.symsoft.se
Subject: Test
test mail body
" | /etc/mail/mm-handler mailman.symsoft.se \
-r kevin.mcnamee<at>symsoft.se foobar


This does not work:
===================
echo "From: kevin.mcnamee<at>symsoft.se
To: foobar<at>mailman.symsoft.se
Subject: Test
test mail body
" | /usr/sbin/sendmail -fkevin.mcnamee<at>symsoft.se \
foobar<at>mailman.symsoft.se



> Looking at the lists/testlist/digest.mbox I can see that the messages are
in
> the file! Trying a different approach I created a new list called "foobar"
> and suddenly my test messages to foobar are archived and posted to
members!

I should mention that I had originally ran make install as root and before
creating foobar I changed all files owned by root to be owned by mailman.
# find /usr/local/mailman -user root -exec chown mailman {} \;

Regard,
Kevin





From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 13 23:38:19 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 14:38:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail and mm-handler woes
In-Reply-To: <200602132104.k1DL4doh019140@my.symsoft.se>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602131438190296a6b95edb@msapiro>

Kevin McNamee wrote:
>
>When I send a mail (from Outlook) with DEBUG turned on in mm-handler, I get
>a "Returned mail" with the debug output. So it seems that that is working.
>
>Without DEBUG it does not reach Mailman moderation. I tried to send the same
>message on the command line:
>
>> su - mailman
>> cat testmsg.txt | /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post testlist
>
>And this got to the moderation queue. Since the testmsg.txt includes headers
>I also got a message back from testlist-bounces saying that my message was
>awaiting approval.
>
>When I accept the message, it does not appear in the archive.
>
>There seems to be two problems here:
>  1) messages not reaching Mailman from Outlook/mm-handler
>  2) approved messages not being archived (or sent to members).
>
>Perhaps this is just an archiving problem. If the processing steps are
>  moderation -> archiving -> post to members


It's more like ...-> moderation -> queue for archiving -> queue for
delivery with the processing of the archive queue and the outgoing
queue handled by separate processes.

Check all of Mailman's logs.


>Looking at the lists/testlist/digest.mbox I can see that the messages are in
>the file!


The messages from Outlook too?

Try moving the digest.mbox file aside. This shouldn't affect 2.1.7, but
who knows...


>Trying a different approach I created a new list called "foobar"
>and suddenly my test messages to foobar are archived and posted to members!
>
>Still have a problem sending mail from Outlook. Tried directly with sendmail
>
>echo "From: kevin.mcnamee<at>symsoft.se
>To: foobar<at>mailman.symsoft.se
>Subject: Test
>test mail body
>" | /usr/sbin/sendmail -v -fkevin.mcnamee<at>symsoft.se
>foobar<at>mailman.symsoft.se
>
>Still no luck. I will continue testing. Any help appreciated.
>
>
>Some comments on the FAQ:
>============================
>Step 1) This 
>    ps -aux| grep mailmanctl |grep -v grep
>should be replaced with this
>    ps -ef | grep qrunner |grep -v grep
>
>Step 3) To locate the smrsh directory try
>    strings /usr/lib/smrsh | grep sm.bin
>
>Step 4) I ran 'netstat -na |grep ":25 "' but I did not get any result.
>
>Step 6) This step is confusing. I have lock files and the process that
>created the lock does exist.  Does this step say that I can delete them
>anyway or that I should only delete them if there is no process found?


The FAQ definitely needs updating. It's a community project. Please
help.

Re: step 1, the intent of that author was to check for mailmanctl only.
If you're going to check for qrunners too, you need to change more
than the command. BTW, I use
  ps -fAw | grep 'p[y]thon'

or I just ignore the grep result.

Step 6 is saying that it is safe to remove the lock for your problem
list, but here's an alternate suggestion. Do

  bin/mailmanctl stop

Verify mailmanctl and all runners have stopped. Remove any remaining
locks/* files. then,

  bin/mailmanctl start

This assumes no web server process has a list locked legitimately, but
that's unlikely in your case.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 13 23:47:32 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 14:47:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail and mm-handler woes
In-Reply-To: <200602132220.k1DMJwMP026215@my.symsoft.se>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602131447320109692a0c4d@msapiro>

Kevin McNamee wrote:
>
>This works:
>===================
>echo "From: kevin.mcnamee<at>symsoft.se
>To: foobar<at>mailman.symsoft.se
>Subject: Test
>test mail body
>" | /etc/mail/mm-handler mailman.symsoft.se \
>-r kevin.mcnamee<at>symsoft.se foobar
>
>
>This does not work:
>===================
>echo "From: kevin.mcnamee<at>symsoft.se
>To: foobar<at>mailman.symsoft.se
>Subject: Test
>test mail body
>" | /usr/sbin/sendmail -fkevin.mcnamee<at>symsoft.se \
>foobar<at>mailman.symsoft.se


And what happens to the message in this case? Are these the ones that
get held for moderation and then just get to digest.mbox and nowhere
else? See my prior reply.

Also, are you approving the moderated messages by web or email. Why are
they held? If you're approving by email, are you including the
Approved: line?


>> Looking at the lists/testlist/digest.mbox I can see that the messages are
>in
>> the file! Trying a different approach I created a new list called "foobar"
>> and suddenly my test messages to foobar are archived and posted to
>members!
>
>I should mention that I had originally ran make install as root and before
>creating foobar I changed all files owned by root to be owned by mailman.
># find /usr/local/mailman -user root -exec chown mailman {} \;


This is what bin/check_perms is for.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Feb 13 23:55:41 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 16:55:41 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems sending to list
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006021313563400310c5cb4e1@msapiro>
References: <6fbe3da00602131332w115e21b8k183fb16356be2af2@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006021313563400310c5cb4e1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602131455t30090076p81073609ce4cd872@mail.gmail.com>

I've modified each line in /etc/aliases that refers to procmail to add
-a <listname>. I tested to see if -a $h would work, but since it uses
smrsh, which prohibits variable parsing, no-go. But that's alright.
This is still a much better solution than any that I thought off.

Also, it seems to be working properly.

Many thanks for your help, Mark.

On 2/13/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
> >I don't /think/ it's bounce notices. The sendmail logs don't seem to
> >reflect that.
> >Rather, I think this has to do with the fact that when the messages
> >are sent out, the 'To:' header still contains
> >announce at physics.tamu.edu even though it reports a different RCPT TO
> >in smtp?
> >I've set procmail to carbon copy anything that passes through (mailman
> >has its own procmail file on my config), and this seems to be what is
> >happening.
> >So, everything is right in:
> >(1) I send mail to announce
> >(2) Message hits sendmail
> >(3) matches aliases
> >(4) Goes to procmail
> >(5) Procmail matches on To: ...
> >(6) Sends to mailman
> >(7) Mailman sends to members
> >(8) Any members that aren't mailman lists are delivered
> >(9) Mailman lists, however, restart at step (2), but To: still looks
> >like announce at physics.tamu.edu, so they are discarded at step #7.
>
>
> I agree with your analysis.
>
>
> >The key problem is that procmail can only see the message and its
> >headers, which don't seem to give an indication at this stage that the
> >message was sent to anything other than announce.. Sendmail knows,
> >because it's dispatching them to the proper alias.
>
>
> *Your* procmail only sees headers and body. Consider in .procmailrc
>
>
> EnvelopeTo = $1
>
> :0
> * EnvelopeTo ?? ^mailman$
> |sudo -u mailman /var/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman
> :E
> * EnvelopeTo ?? ^mailman-admin$
> |sudo -u mailman /var/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman
>  etc.
> and similarly for the other lists.
>
> Then in sendmail.mc, you invove procmail with a -a argument equal to
> the envelope recipient (-a $h I think but don't hold me to it).
>
>
> >There are a couple of possible patches to this (mucking with
> >environment variables at the same time I send to procmail, using a
> >seperate procmail config file for each list) but none of these are
> >ideal.
>
>
> Don't need to do that. Just pass the envelope recipient to procmail as
> above.
>
>
> >Am I seeing the correct behaviour from procmail, that the To: is
> >maintained as the list address? Is it a privacy issue that the
> >addresses are kept out of the headers? Is there an easy way to change
> >this behaviour, or are there concerns with it that I'm not seeing?
>
>
> You can set full personalization for the list (if
> OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes in mm_cfg.py) which will send
> a separate message to each recipient with that recipient address in
> To:, but you don't need to do that (am I repeating myself).
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


--
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Feb 14 00:03:04 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 17:03:04 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Printer disappeared from lsusb
In-Reply-To: <20060213132612.5f290d4c.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
References: <20060213132612.5f290d4c.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602131503o624f35dt12ba06f08ddd3fc3@mail.gmail.com>

Heh. Wrong mailing list.

(However, if I were you I would try completely disconnecting
everything to the printer, checking the toner cartridge to make sure
there aren't any tabs or flaps that need to be removed, re-inserting
and then re-connect, essentially rebooting the printer, and see if it
shows up in lsusb again.)

On 2/13/06, Hugh Esco <he at reclaimedcomputers.ca> wrote:
> Hello all:
>
> Perhaps this is more of a usb question than a cups question, but I wasn't quite sure where to turn on this one.  About a month or so ago, I ran out of toner for my Samsung ML-1520.  Finally about two weeks ago, I got a new toner cartridge.  But when I installed it, I was left with both the Online/Error and the Toner Save leds are both glowing green.
>
> Using lp and the cgi test page button, I am unable to get a job to print.  I purge the stuck jobs, restart the cupsys server and still nothing.  I used cat file.ps > /dev/usb/lp0, which is the port recorded in /etc/printers.conf as the one which used to work.  I get a no such device error.  I crawl under the workbench again, check the physical connections.  They all seem to be ok.  But lsusb returns:
>
> hesco at marcus2:~$ lsusb
> Bus 004 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
> Bus 003 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
> Bus 002 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
> Bus 001 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
>
> without identifying the printer.
>
> Can anyone please advise me how I might trouble shoot this and get this brand new printer back up and working?
>
> Thanks,
> -- Hugh
>
> --
> RCK Computer Services
> http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pdbogen%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


--
- Patrick Bogen


From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Tue Feb 14 00:15:02 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 15:15:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription settings not taking
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602131257070203de249912@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200602131257070203de249912@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0602131512340.1343@titan.lserv.com>

On Mon, 13 Feb 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>
> If you're sure your browser is accepting cookies, it may be that a 
> local firewall or something similar is interfering with setting and 
> returning cookies.

 	I doubt that, intensely. But I know some sites have trouble 
with Opera and session cookies; I just hadn't imagined Mailman's could 
be one such.

> Most of the other reasons for this kind of behavior are on the 
> server side, but in this case, we know the server side works as long 
> as you accept and return the cookie.

 	I just tried it with Epiphany -- which I often avoid, 
precisely because it gives me least control. And this time it seems 
to've worked. Thanks! and wish me luck.

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, PhD, Neo-Redneck Linux Convert
What do they know of country, who only country know?


From he at reclaimedcomputers.ca  Tue Feb 14 01:47:14 2006
From: he at reclaimedcomputers.ca (Hugh Esco)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 16:47:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Printer disappeared from lsusb
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00602131503o624f35dt12ba06f08ddd3fc3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060213132612.5f290d4c.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
	<6fbe3da00602131503o624f35dt12ba06f08ddd3fc3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060213164714.3cdf0a7d.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>

Sorry about that.  That one was intended for the usb list.  

-- Hugh

On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 17:03:04 -0600
Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:

> Heh. Wrong mailing list.
> 
> (However, if I were you I would try completely disconnecting
> everything to the printer, checking the toner cartridge to make sure
> there aren't any tabs or flaps that need to be removed, re-inserting
> and then re-connect, essentially rebooting the printer, and see if it
> shows up in lsusb again.)
> 
> On 2/13/06, Hugh Esco <he at reclaimedcomputers.ca> wrote:
> > Hello all:
> >
> > Perhaps this is more of a usb question than a cups question, but I wasn't quite sure where to turn on this one.  About a month or so ago, I ran out of toner for my Samsung ML-1520.  Finally about two weeks ago, I got a new toner cartridge.  But when I installed it, I was left with both the Online/Error and the Toner Save leds are both glowing green.
> >
> > Using lp and the cgi test page button, I am unable to get a job to print.  I purge the stuck jobs, restart the cupsys server and still nothing.  I used cat file.ps > /dev/usb/lp0, which is the port recorded in /etc/printers.conf as the one which used to work.  I get a no such device error.  I crawl under the workbench again, check the physical connections.  They all seem to be ok.  But lsusb returns:
> >
> > hesco at marcus2:~$ lsusb
> > Bus 004 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
> > Bus 003 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
> > Bus 002 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
> > Bus 001 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
> >
> > without identifying the printer.
> >
> > Can anyone please advise me how I might trouble shoot this and get this brand new printer back up and working?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > -- Hugh
> >
> > --
> > RCK Computer Services
> > http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users mailing list
> > Mailman-Users at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pdbogen%40gmail.com
> >
> > Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> >
> 
> 
> --
> - Patrick Bogen
> 
> 


-- 
--
Hugh Esco 
250-352-9361
he at reclaimedcomputers.ca
RCK Computer Services 
http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/



From lovecreatesbeauty at gmail.com  Tue Feb 14 03:45:05 2006
From: lovecreatesbeauty at gmail.com (lovecreatesbeauty)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 10:45:05 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I've built apache, sendmail, mailman successfully,
	how to make them work?
Message-ID: <a0e7fcb20602131845u6cb64e4ei134d6fba4d507017@mail.gmail.com>

I build this mail system using apache, sendmail (bundled with Solaris
10) and mailman on Solaris 10 experimental. All these componemts work
properly separately.

How to make them work tegother, and just work as a real mail system as yours?

Following are the working processes of the three main components on my
Solaris 10 machine:

$ ps -ef | grep apache
  apache   512   506   0 09:53:58 ?           0:00
/usr/local/apache2/bin/httpd                                          
    -k start
    root   506     1   0 09:53:57 ?           0:00
/usr/local/apache2/bin/httpd                                          
    -k start
  apache   514   506   0 09:53:58 ?           0:00
/usr/local/apache2/bin/httpd                                          
    -k start
  apache   516   506   0 09:53:58 ?           0:00
/usr/local/apache2/bin/httpd                                          
    -k start
  apache   517   506   0 09:53:59 ?           0:00
/usr/local/apache2/bin/httpd                                          
    -k start
  apache   519   506   0 09:53:59 ?           0:00
/usr/local/apache2/bin/httpd                                          
    -k start
  apache   568   506   0 10:05:03 ?           0:00
/usr/local/apache2/bin/httpd                                          
    -k start
  apache   569   506   0 10:05:03 ?           0:00
/usr/local/apache2/bin/httpd                                          
    -k start
  apache   567   506   0 10:05:01 ?           0:00
/usr/local/apache2/bin/httpd                                          
    -k start
  joshua   611   469   0 10:28:40 pts/2       0:00 grep apache
$

$ ps -ef | grep sendmail
    root   437     1   0 09:43:31 ?           0:00 /usr/lib/sendmail -bd -q15m
   smmsp   438     1   0 09:43:31 ?           0:00 /usr/lib/sendmail -Ac -q15m
  joshua   622   469   0 10:33:41 pts/2       0:00 grep sendmail
$

$ ps -ef | grep mailman
 mailman   509   507   0 09:53:58 ?           0:01
/usr/local/bin//python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner
--runner=BounceRunner:0:1
 mailman   510   507   0 09:53:58 ?           0:01
/usr/local/bin//python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner
--runner=CommandRunner:0:
 mailman   511   507   0 09:53:58 ?           0:01
/usr/local/bin//python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner
--runner=IncomingRunner:0
 mailman   508   507   0 09:53:58 ?           0:01
/usr/local/bin//python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner
--runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -
 mailman   507     1   0 09:53:57 ?           0:00
/usr/local/bin//python /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start
 mailman   513   507   0 09:53:58 ?           0:01
/usr/local/bin//python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner
--runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -
 mailman   515   507   0 09:53:58 ?           0:01
/usr/local/bin//python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner
--runner=OutgoingRunner:0
 mailman   518   507   0 09:53:59 ?           0:01
/usr/local/bin//python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner
--runner=VirginRunner:0:1
 mailman   520   507   0 09:53:59 ?           0:00
/usr/local/bin//python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner
--runner=RetryRunner:0:1
$

I am really disturbed by the problems of this mail system and mailman
for some days. Could you please help me?

--
Sincerely,

lovecreatesbeauty,

lovecreatesbeauty at gmail dot com,

http://www.spaces.msn.com/members/lovecreatesbeauty/


From nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in  Tue Feb 14 04:02:08 2006
From: nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in (Kabilan L)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 08:32:08 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help me on LDAPMEMBERADAPTOR-V3.0 very Urgent
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00602130948ha3b3566n4eb9dc9b37456dd4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060213040140.M64441@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>
	<PC1740200602122145440188cb635e48@msapiro>
	<20060213071339.M97980@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>
	<6fbe3da00602130750q53a8beacrad379258c6d425f6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060213170122.M56334@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>
	<6fbe3da00602130919p23f1184fw39023a5f492c39ee@mail.gmail.com>
	<20060213172046.M93944@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>
	<6fbe3da00602130948ha3b3566n4eb9dc9b37456dd4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060214025507.M70284@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>

Hai!!
This is my extend.py file.

from Mailman.LDAPMemberships import LDAPMemberships

def extend(list):
    ldap = LDAPMemberships(list)
    ldap.ldapsearch = "(uid=recipient)"   # your LDAP search here
    ldap.ldapserver = "127.0.0.1"  # your LDAP server
    ldap.ldapbasedn = "dc=ee,dc=iitm,dc=ac,dc=in" # your base DN
    ldap.ldapbinddn = 'cn=Admin,dc=ee,dc=iitm,dc=ac,dc=in'   # bind DN that
can access 'mail' field
    ldap.ldappasswd = 'xxx'                 # bind password for ldapbinddn
    ldap.LDAP_URL = "ldap://ldap.ee.iitm.ac.in:389/"
    ldap.LDAP_MAIL_ATTRS = ("mail",)
    ldap.LDAP_LOCALDOMAIN = "ee.iitm.ac.in"
    ldap.LDAP_REALNAME_ATTR = "cn"
    ldap.LDAP_MAILMEMBER_ATTRS = ("rfc822MailMember",)
    ldap.LDAP_MEMBER_ATTRS = ("uniqueMember","memberUID")
    ldap.LDAP_OWNER_ATTR = "owner"
    ldap.LDAP_LIST_RDN_ATTR = "cn"
 ldap.LDAP_LIST_CLASSFILTER =  "(|(objectclass=posixGroup)(objectclass=top))"
    ldap.LDAP_BASE = "ou=Group,dc=ee,dc=iitm,dc=ac,dc=in"
    list._memberadaptor = ldap

This an ldap record from my server.

dn: uid=test6,ou=People,dc=ee,dc=iitm,dc=ac,dc=in
uid: test6
cn: testuser6
sn: testuser6
mail: test6 at ee.iitm.ac.in
objectClass: person
objectClass: organizationalPerson
objectClass: inetOrgPerson
objectClass: posixAccount
objectClass: top
loginShell: /bin/zsh
uidNumber: 10006
gidNumber: 9002
homeDirectory: /home/staff/test6
gecos: testuser6

As Mark,said i know i don't have an entry/attr owner in my record i hashed
that line and tried it still didn't work. Help Me please.

Thank You ALL


Kabilan.L
Department of Electrical Engineering
IIT Madras
Chennai - 600 036
Tamil Nadu, INDIA


"The secret to winning football games is working more as a team, less as
individuals. I play not my 11 best, but my best 11." ->Knute Rockne


---------- Original Message -----------
From: Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com>
To: Kabilan L <nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in>
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Sent: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 11:48:43 -0600
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Help me on LDAPMEMBERADAPTOR-V3.0 very Urgent

> Can you please send your configuration values to the list? Make sure
> to censor any passwords that may be present.
> (It looks like something is wrong with the 'LDAP_OWNER_ATTR' value)
> 
> P.s., make sure to 'reply to all' so that the list gets your posts 
> as well.
> 
> On 2/13/06, Kabilan L <nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in> wrote:
> > Hai!!!
> > Thank u Patrick.I changed the config to correct values still i have this
problem
> >
> > admin(9022):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in run_main
> > admin(9022):     main()
> > admin(9022):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 198, in main
> > admin(9022):     show_results(mlist, doc, category, subcat, cgidata)
> > admin(9022):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 498, in
> > show_results
> > admin(9022):     form.AddItem(membership_options(mlist, subcat, cgidata, doc,
> > form))
> > admin(9022):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 870, in
> > membership_options
> > admin(9022):     all = [_m.encode() for _m in mlist.getMembers()]
> > admin(9022):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LDAPMemberships.py", line 263,
> > in getMembers
> > admin(9022):     return self.__ldap_get_members()
> > admin(9022):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LDAPMemberships.py", line 246,
> > in __ldap_get_members
> > admin(9022):     self.__ldap_load_members_by_group()
> > admin(9022):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LDAPMemberships.py", line 231,
> > in __ldap_load_members_by_group
> > admin(9022):     ownerdn = attrs[self.__mlist.LDAP_OWNER_ATTR][0]
> > admin(9022): KeyError: 'owner'
> >
> > Any suggestion!! Thank You!!
> >
> >
> >
> > Kabilan.L
> > Department of Electrical Engineering
> > IIT Madras
> > Chennai - 600 036
> > Tamil Nadu, INDIA
> >
> >
> > "The secret to winning football games is working more as a team, less as
> > individuals. I play not my 11 best, but my best 11." ->Knute Rockne
> >
> >
> > ---------- Original Message -----------
> > From: Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com>
> > To: Kabilan L <nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in>
> > Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> > Sent: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 11:19:09 -0600
> > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Help me on LDAPMEMBERADAPTOR-V3.0 very Urgent
> >
> > > The problem is that you need to replace the generic entries with the
> > > correct values. I don't know what they are for you; you need to speak
> > > with whomever set up the LDAP server in your organization, or at
> > > least someone who knows about it.
> > >
> > > On 2/13/06, Kabilan L <nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in> wrote:
> > > > Hai!!
> > > > So u say my extend.py is problem,then please do give me the correct way of
> > > > doing it.how to change things.so it works for me.
> > > >
> > > > Thanking You
> > > >
> > > > Kabilan.L
> > > > Department of Electrical Engineering
> > > > IIT Madras
> > > > Chennai - 600 036
> > > > Tamil Nadu, INDIA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "The secret to winning football games is working more as a team, less as
> > > > individuals. I play not my 11 best, but my best 11." ->Knute Rockne
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------- Original Message -----------
> > > > From: Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com>
> > > > To: Kabilan L <nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in>
> > > > Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> > > > Sent: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 09:50:57 -0600
> > > > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Help me on LDAPMEMBERADAPTOR-V3.0 very Urgent
> > > >
> > > > > On 2/13/06, Kabilan L <nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in> wrote:
> > > > > > def extend(list):
> > > > > >     ldap = LDAPMemberships(list)
> > > > > >     ldap.ldapsearch = "(uid=recipient)"   # your LDAP search here
> > > > > >     ldap.ldapserver = "127.0.0.1"  # your LDAP server
> > > > > >     ldap.ldapbasedn = "dc=domain dc=com" # your base DN
> > > > > >     ldap.ldapbinddn = 'cn=Manager,dc=domain,dc=com'   # bind DN
that can
> > > > > > access 'mail' field
> > > > > >     ldap.ldappasswd = 'xxxx'                 # bind password for
> > ldapbinddn
> > > > > >     ldap.LDAP_URL = "ldap://ldap.domain.com:389/"
> > > > > >     ldap.LDAP_MAIL_ATTRS = ("mail",)
> > > > > >     ldap.LDAP_LOCALDOMAIN = "domain.com"
> > > > > >     ldap.LDAP_REALNAME_ATTR = "cn"
> > > > > >     ldap.LDAP_MAILMEMBER_ATTRS = ("rfc822MailMember",)
> > > > > >     ldap.LDAP_MEMBER_ATTRS = ("uniqueMember","memberUID")
> > > > > >     ldap.LDAP_OWNER_ATTR = "owner"
> > > > > >     ldap.LDAP_LIST_RDN_ATTR = "cn"
> > > > > >     ldap.LDAP_LIST_CLASSFILTER =
> > > > > >
> > > >
> >
"(|(objectclass=groupOfUniqueNames)(objectclass=nisMailAlias)(objectclass=groupOfNames))"
> > > > > >     ldap.LDAP_BASE = "cn=staff,ou=Group,dc=domain,dc=com"
> > > > > >     list._memberadaptor = ldap
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > If all of the above is *exactly* what is in your config file, then
> > > > > this is part of your problem.
> > > > > Specifically, ldapserver, ldapbasedn, ldapbinddn, ldappasswd,
> > > > > LDAP_URP, and LOCALDOMAIN all contain 'generic' example settings
> > > > > which almost certainly are incorrect.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > - Patrick Bogen
> > > > ------- End of Original Message -------
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > - Patrick Bogen
> > ------- End of Original Message -------
> >
> >
> 
> --
> - Patrick Bogen
------- End of Original Message -------



From he at reclaimedcomputers.ca  Tue Feb 14 04:07:47 2006
From: he at reclaimedcomputers.ca (Hugh Esco)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 19:07:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pls help debug mm-postfix disconnect. Thanks.
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006021314090908124b1af7d5@msapiro>
References: <6fbe3da00602131355pc0dacb6ufcfe1186d39e5241@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006021314090908124b1af7d5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060213190747.6712758f.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>

I vetted the held message and it was posted to the archives,
but still no message sent to the listmembers.

[06:23:22]<root at www1:/u/d/devmm/mailman> ls logs/ -lt
total 32
-rw-rw-r--  1 devmm  devmm  244 Feb 13 14:06 vette
-rw-rw-r--  1 devmm  devmm 3955 Feb  9 15:42 error
-rw-rw-r--  1 apache devmm 3543 Jan  8 00:52 subscribe
-rw-rw-r--  1 devmm  devmm   89 Dec 21 14:53 bounce
-rw-rw-r--  1 devmm  devmm  172 Dec 21 14:38 post
-rw-rw-r--  1 devmm  devmm 3339 Dec 21 14:38 qrunner
-rw-rw-r--  1 devmm  devmm  141 Dec 21 14:38 smtp
-rw-rw-r--  1 devmm  devmm  580 Dec 21 14:38 smtp-failure

[06:27:57]<root at www1:/u/d/devmm/mailman> ls qfiles/out/ | wc -l
118

[06:28:06]<root at www1:/u/d/devmm/mailman> ls qfiles/retry/ | wc -l
0

[06:28:19]<root at www1:/u/d/devmm/mailman> ls qfiles/ -lt
total 9
drwxrws---  2 devmm devmm   48 Feb 13 14:06 archive
drwxrws---  2 devmm devmm   48 Feb 13 14:06 in
drwxrws---  2 devmm devmm 9488 Feb 13 14:06 out
drwxrws---  2 devmm devmm   48 Feb 13 08:00 virgin
drwxrws---  2 devmm devmm   48 Dec 21 00:42 retry
drwxrws---  2 devmm devmm   48 Dec 21 00:42 bounces
drwxrws---  2 devmm devmm   48 Dec 21 00:42 commands
drwxrws---  2 devmm devmm   48 Dec 21 00:42 news
drwxrws---  2 devmm devmm   48 Dec 21 00:42 shunt

Seems to me things are stuck in the outbound que before they 
get to postfix.  My tests were run today.

-- Hugh 

Begin forwarded message:

Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 14:09:09 -0800
From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
To: Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com>, Hugh Esco <he at reclaimedcomputers.ca>
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Pls help debug mm-postfix disconnect. Thanks.


Patrick Bogen wrote:

>I don't know postfix very well, but the points that I'd look at are:
>Is a newline and whitespace the proper separate for separate entries
>in alias_maps, virtual_alias_domains, and virtual_alias_maps?
>Are the permissions on alias_maps correct?


I don't think any of this matters because the problem is with outgoing
mail. These all have to do with delivering incoming mail to Mailman
which is working as posts are reaching the archive.


>Do the mailman logs show anything interesting?


Good question.


>On 2/13/06, Hugh Esco <he at reclaimedcomputers.ca> wrote:
>>
>> This mailman instance is giving me fits.  It is one of four mailman installations on this server and at least one of them has been in active use since December.  I created this one in January, my test posts show up in the online archives.  But no mail seems to be getting off the server -- from this mailman installation, even as mail sent from the command line and mail sent with the Leyland list is getting out.  The MTA is postfix.
<snip>
>> All my qrunners seem to be running:


Good.


>> My MTA's logs seem useless on this point:
>>
>> [02:15:31]<root at www1:/u/d/devmm/mailman> ls /var/log/postfix/ -lt
>> total 0
>> -rwxr-x---  1 postfix postfix 0 Dec 14 04:42 errorlog
>> -rwxr-x---  1 postfix postfix 0 Dec 14 04:41 maillog

So there's nothing at all in the Postfix logs? Not even a startup
message? Are you sure these are the right logs?

Check Mailman's post, smtp and smtp-failure logs. In particular, if
smtp says "smtp for n recips, completed" the post was given to the MTA
and it's out of Mailman's hands.

Is there anything im Mailman's error log? Is anything in qfiles/out/ or
qfiles/retry/?

See FAQ
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-- 
RCK Computer Services 
http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/





From DBRHKraken at charter.net  Tue Feb 14 02:26:58 2006
From: DBRHKraken at charter.net (DBRH)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 20:26:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exporting to majordomo?
Message-ID: <43F131E2.1080704@charter.net>

Folks:

I've been asked to export one of my lists to a different server where 
they run majordomo.
The folks asking don't want to preserve the mail list history, just the 
membership.
Is there any way to get a simple list of the members in a flat file format?

Thank you.

Sincerely:

Doug


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 14 04:46:21 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 19:46:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pls help debug mm-postfix disconnect. Thanks.
In-Reply-To: <20060213190747.6712758f.he@reclaimedcomputers.ca>
Message-ID: <PC17402006021319462104531ef5bbfa@msapiro>

Hugh Esco wrote:

>I vetted the held message and it was posted to the archives,
>but still no message sent to the listmembers.
>
>[06:23:22]<root at www1:/u/d/devmm/mailman> ls logs/ -lt
>total 32
>-rw-rw-r--  1 devmm  devmm  244 Feb 13 14:06 vette
>-rw-rw-r--  1 devmm  devmm 3955 Feb  9 15:42 error
>-rw-rw-r--  1 apache devmm 3543 Jan  8 00:52 subscribe
>-rw-rw-r--  1 devmm  devmm   89 Dec 21 14:53 bounce
>-rw-rw-r--  1 devmm  devmm  172 Dec 21 14:38 post
>-rw-rw-r--  1 devmm  devmm 3339 Dec 21 14:38 qrunner
>-rw-rw-r--  1 devmm  devmm  141 Dec 21 14:38 smtp
>-rw-rw-r--  1 devmm  devmm  580 Dec 21 14:38 smtp-failure
>
>[06:27:57]<root at www1:/u/d/devmm/mailman> ls qfiles/out/ | wc -l
>118


So it looks like you have a huge backlog in the out queue. Look at
what's actually in the 'smtp' log, but that probably won't help
because it hasn't been written since Dec 21. In fact it appears that
nothing has been sent from Mailman since Dec 21, including any
list-owner notifications of held messages. I suspect OutgoingRunner
hasn't been running since then. What's in the qrunner log?

Do

ps -fAw | grep python

or however you spell it on your system to see what qrunners are running.

bin/mailmanctl stop

followed by

bin/mailmanctl start

might get things going.



>Seems to me things are stuck in the outbound que before they 
>get to postfix.  My tests were run today.


Yes, it seems that way to me too.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 14 04:53:34 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 19:53:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I've built apache, sendmail,
	mailman successfully, how to make them work?
In-Reply-To: <a0e7fcb20602131845u6cb64e4ei134d6fba4d507017@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006021319533406091ef5bca3@msapiro>

lovecreatesbeauty wrote:

>I build this mail system using apache, sendmail (bundled with Solaris
>10) and mailman on Solaris 10 experimental. All these componemts work
>properly separately.
>
>How to make them work tegother, and just work as a real mail system as yours?
>
>Following are the working processes of the three main components on my
>Solaris 10 machine:
>
<snip of ps outputs showing sendmail, apache and mailman are running.>
>
>I am really disturbed by the problems of this mail system and mailman
>for some days. Could you please help me?


See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/index.html>

If you want more specific help from this list, you have to at least
give us a clue like what do you do and what happens when you do it?

And what part of Mailman works separately from apache and sendmail???

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 14 05:06:48 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 20:06:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help me on LDAPMEMBERADAPTOR-V3.0 very Urgent
In-Reply-To: <20060214025507.M70284@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602132006480187c403a54b@msapiro>

Kabilan L wrote:
>
>As Mark,said i know i don't have an entry/attr owner in my record i hashed
>that line and tried it still didn't work. Help Me please.

You can't just "hash out" lines in extend.py. Every one of them is
there for a purpose, and those ldap.* attributes are all referenced in
LDAPMemberships.py, so removing any of them will result in NameError
exceptions when they are referenced.

You have to understand what these things mean in the context of the
python-ldap module, LDAPMemberships.py and your LDAP server and data,
and provide the appropriate values, and I'm not the one to help you
with that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 14 05:14:40 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 20:14:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exporting to majordomo?
In-Reply-To: <43F131E2.1080704@charter.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402006021320144005931ef5bc99@msapiro>

Doug wrote:
>
>I've been asked to export one of my lists to a different server where 
>they run majordomo.
>The folks asking don't want to preserve the mail list history, just the 
>membership.
>Is there any way to get a simple list of the members in a flat file format?

If you have shell access to the Mailman server, use bin/list_members.

Otherwise see
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-January/048484.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lovecreatesbeauty at gmail.com  Tue Feb 14 06:01:18 2006
From: lovecreatesbeauty at gmail.com (lovecreatesbeauty)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:01:18 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I've built apache, sendmail,
	mailman successfully, how to make them work?
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006021319533406091ef5bca3@msapiro>
References: <a0e7fcb20602131845u6cb64e4ei134d6fba4d507017@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006021319533406091ef5bca3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <a0e7fcb20602132101o7ee09c9i4d9e3854430c58a2@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, thank you, Mark.

I get an error at the step `13 Create your first mailing list' as:

Create a 192.168.1.68 Mailing List

Error: Unknown virtual host: 192.168.1.68

You can create a new mailing list by entering the relevant information into the
<snip>

On 2/14/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/index.html>
>
> If you want more specific help from this list, you have to at least
> give us a clue like what do you do and what happens when you do it?
>
> And what part of Mailman works separately from apache and sendmail???


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 14 06:45:15 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 21:45:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I've built apache, sendmail,
	mailman successfully, how to make them work?
In-Reply-To: <a0e7fcb20602132101o7ee09c9i4d9e3854430c58a2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060213214515003163d2ee4e@msapiro>

lovecreatesbeauty wrote:
>
>I get an error at the step `13 Create your first mailing list' as:
>
>Create a 192.168.1.68 Mailing List
>
>Error: Unknown virtual host: 192.168.1.68

You are assessing the web create page via a url with your lan IP as the
host, e.g. something like <http://192.168.1.68/mailman/create> and
192.168.1.68 is not a url host in the VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary.

It must be either DEFAULT_URL_HOST or the url host in an
add_virtualhost() directive in mm_cfg.py or you need to have
"VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off" in mm_cfg.py. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.062.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kevin.mcnamee at symsoft.se  Tue Feb 14 09:29:31 2006
From: kevin.mcnamee at symsoft.se (Kevin McNamee)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 09:29:31 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail and mm-handler woes
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602131447320109692a0c4d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200602140829.k1E8TUPF001229@my.symsoft.se>

Hi Mark,

>>
>>This works:
>>===================
>>echo "From: kevin.mcnamee<at>symsoft.se
>>To: foobar<at>mailman.symsoft.se
>>Subject: Test
>>test mail body
>>" | /etc/mail/mm-handler mailman.symsoft.se \
>>-r kevin.mcnamee<at>symsoft.se foobar
>>
>>
>>This does not work:
>>===================
>>echo "From: kevin.mcnamee<at>symsoft.se
>>To: foobar<at>mailman.symsoft.se
>>Subject: Test
>>test mail body
>>" | /usr/sbin/sendmail -fkevin.mcnamee<at>symsoft.se \
>>foobar<at>mailman.symsoft.se


>And what happens to the message in this case? Are these the ones that
>get held for moderation and then just get to digest.mbox and nowhere
>else? See my prior reply.

In the sendmail case they never reach mailman. They are not in the
digest.mbox and there is no log activity. I should also say that in the
sendmail case, if I turn on DEBUG in mm-handler then I do get a DEBUG
response from mm-handler. I will continue to investigate. 

>Also, are you approving the moderated messages by web or email. Why are
>they held? If you're approving by email, are you including the
>Approved: line?

I am approving via web. The are held because I am not a member. I guess I
can add myself now, since the foobar list is working properly (compared to
testlist).

>>I should mention that I had originally ran make install as root and before
>>creating foobar I changed all files owned by root to be owned by mailman.
>># find /usr/local/mailman -user root -exec chown mailman {} \;

>This is what bin/check_perms is for.

check_perms did not complain before or after I did the chown.

Regards,
Kevin




From kevin.mcnamee at symsoft.se  Tue Feb 14 09:47:02 2006
From: kevin.mcnamee at symsoft.se (Kevin McNamee)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 09:47:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail and mm-handler woes
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602131438190296a6b95edb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200602140847.k1E8l2b9002974@my.symsoft.se>

Hi,


>Check all of Mailman's logs.

I am tailing them all.

>>Looking at the lists/testlist/digest.mbox I can see that the messages are 
>>in the file!

>The messages from Outlook too?

No.

>Try moving the digest.mbox file aside. This shouldn't affect 2.1.7, but
>who knows...

I will just remove this list and test with foobar.


>The FAQ definitely needs updating. It's a community project. Please
>help.

Ah. Now I see the edit button. Have you got the password?


/Kevin




From kevin.mcnamee at symsoft.se  Tue Feb 14 13:09:03 2006
From: kevin.mcnamee at symsoft.se (Kevin McNamee)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:09:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail and mm-handler woes - SOLVED
In-Reply-To: <200602140829.k1E8TUPF001229@my.symsoft.se>
Message-ID: <200602141209.k1EC94AP022750@my.symsoft.se>

Hi,

It was a permissions problem. mm-handler had a different owner to what was
specified in the sendmail.cf. When I changed this everything worked.

Thanks for all your help.

Regards,
Kevin.

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+kevin.mcnamee=symsoft.se at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+kevin.mcnamee=symsoft.se at python.org] On Behalf
Of Kevin McNamee
Sent: 14 February 2006 09:30
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] sendmail and mm-handler woes

Hi Mark,

>>
>>This works:
>>===================
>>echo "From: kevin.mcnamee<at>symsoft.se
>>To: foobar<at>mailman.symsoft.se
>>Subject: Test
>>test mail body
>>" | /etc/mail/mm-handler mailman.symsoft.se \
>>-r kevin.mcnamee<at>symsoft.se foobar
>>
>>
>>This does not work:
>>===================
>>echo "From: kevin.mcnamee<at>symsoft.se
>>To: foobar<at>mailman.symsoft.se
>>Subject: Test
>>test mail body
>>" | /usr/sbin/sendmail -fkevin.mcnamee<at>symsoft.se \
>>foobar<at>mailman.symsoft.se


>And what happens to the message in this case? Are these the ones that
>get held for moderation and then just get to digest.mbox and nowhere
>else? See my prior reply.

In the sendmail case they never reach mailman. They are not in the
digest.mbox and there is no log activity. I should also say that in the
sendmail case, if I turn on DEBUG in mm-handler then I do get a DEBUG
response from mm-handler. I will continue to investigate. 

>Also, are you approving the moderated messages by web or email. Why are
>they held? If you're approving by email, are you including the
>Approved: line?

I am approving via web. The are held because I am not a member. I guess I
can add myself now, since the foobar list is working properly (compared to
testlist).

>>I should mention that I had originally ran make install as root and before
>>creating foobar I changed all files owned by root to be owned by mailman.
>># find /usr/local/mailman -user root -exec chown mailman {} \;

>This is what bin/check_perms is for.

check_perms did not complain before or after I did the chown.

Regards,
Kevin


------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
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http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
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From lovecreatesbeauty at gmail.com  Tue Feb 14 13:18:40 2006
From: lovecreatesbeauty at gmail.com (lovecreatesbeauty)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 20:18:40 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I've built apache, sendmail,
	mailman successfully, how to make them work?
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060213214515003163d2ee4e@msapiro>
References: <a0e7fcb20602132101o7ee09c9i4d9e3854430c58a2@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC174020060213214515003163d2ee4e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <a0e7fcb20602140418h1d3b8f61we2eaf61ce051d0e5@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you. I finished most of the configuration of the combination of
apache, sendmail and Mailman.

I built an mailing list named 'jive-list', and one site-wide list
named 'Mailman'. I invite some users to the jive-list, and the users
belong to local unix account can receive the invitations, but the
external email address can not receive them.

The invitation received by local unix users shown as (sorry it's a little long):

--- --- --- invitation --- --- ---
>From jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68 Tue Feb 14 15:15:43 2006
Return-Path: <jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68>
Received: from [192.168.1.68] (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by joe.com (8.13.1+Sun/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k1E7FhCI000768
	for <root at joe.com>; Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:15:43 +0800 (CST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Welcome to the "Jive-list" mailing list
From: jive-list-request at 192.168.1.68
To: root at joe.com
X-No-Archive: yes
Message-ID: <mailman.0.1139901342.767.jive-list at 192.168.1.68>
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:15:42 +0800
Precedence: bulk
X-BeenThere: jive-list at 192.168.1.68
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
List-Id: jive-list.192.168.1.68
X-List-Administrivia: yes
Sender: jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68
Errors-To: jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68
Content-Length: 1193
Status: O

Hi, it's the Mailman mailing list for jive newsgroup. Enjoy!Welcome to
the Jive-list at 192.168.1.68 mailing list!

To post to this list, send your email to:

  jive-list at 192.168.1.68

<snip unsubscribing, initial passwd things>
--- --- --- invitation ends --- --- ---

But following mail received also:

--- --- --- the 2nd mail --- --- ---
>From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Feb 14 15:15:45 2006
Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON at joe.com>
Received: from localhost (localhost)
	by joe.com (8.13.1+Sun/8.13.1) id k1E7FhLR000778;
	Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:15:44 +0800 (CST)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:15:44 +0800 (CST)
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON>
Message-Id: <200602140715.k1E7FhLR000778 at joe.com>
To: postmaster
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
	boundary="k1E7FhLR000778.1139901344/joe.com"
Subject: Postmaster notify: see transcript for details
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (postmaster-notification)
Content-Length: 1534
Status: O

This is a MIME-encapsulated message

--k1E7FhLR000778.1139901344/joe.com
<snip>
--- --- --- the 2nd mail ends --- --- ---

When one user (local unix user) send mail to mailing list (for
example, jive-list at 192.168.1.68), then other local unix users
subscribered the mailing list can receive the email, like following
the mail.

--- --- --- the 3rd mail --- --- ---
Return-Path: <joshua at joe.com>
Received: from joe.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by joe.com (8.13.1+Sun/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k1E8FMYB000536
	for <jive-list at 192.168.1.68>; Tue, 14 Feb 2006 16:15:22 +0800 (CST)
Received: (from joshua at localhost)
	by joe.com (8.13.1+Sun/8.13.1/Submit) id k1E8F0aX000528
	for jive-list at 192.168.1.68; Tue, 14 Feb 2006 16:15:00 +0800 (CST)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 16:15:00 +0800 (CST)
From: joshua at joe.com
Message-Id: <200602140815.k1E8F0aX000528 at joe.com>

hello, jive members.

--joshua


--k1E8FMYB000538.1139904922/joe.com--
--- --- --- the 3rd mail ends--- --- ---

Does it seem that my configuration ok?

By the way, I didn't know how to configure my Solaris Unix to enable
the network. Do I need to create and edit /etc/resolv.conf, /etc/hosts
or some other files. How to write them? Followings are my Windows
machine settings in a LAN (My Solaris machine installed on a VMware
which contain the Mailman, sendmail and apache).

Default gateway      : 192.168.1.1
Preferred DNS server : 192.168.1.3
Alternate DNS server : 192.168.1.1

Thank you.


From beartooth at adelphia.net  Tue Feb 14 15:48:26 2006
From: beartooth at adelphia.net (beartooth)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 09:48:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription settings not taking
References: <PC1740200602131257070203de249912@msapiro>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0602131512340.1343@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <pan.2006.02.14.14.48.25.587224@adelphia.net>

On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 15:15:02 -0800, Beartooth wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Feb 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:
[...]
>> Most of the other reasons for this kind of behavior are on the server
>> side, but in this case, we know the server side works as long as you
>> accept and return the cookie.

It did take from Epiphany. So what do I tell the people in opera.general,
over on news.opera.no, who'll be able to do something about it? Just that
setting the subscription options worked with Epiphany but not Opera, or is
there something else I'm not getting?

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, Neo-Redneck Linux Convert
FC4; Pine 4.64, Pan 0.14.2.91; Privoxy 3.0.3; 
Dillo 0.8.5, Opera 8.51, Firefox 1.0.7, Epiphany 1.6.5
Remember I have little idea what I am talking about.




From kevin.mcnamee at symsoft.se  Tue Feb 14 15:53:08 2006
From: kevin.mcnamee at symsoft.se (Kevin McNamee)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:53:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode
Message-ID: <200602141453.k1EEr9wp014214@my.symsoft.se>

Hi,

 

I am importing some old mail into a list and I get the following exception:

 

 

Updating HTML for article 292

Updating HTML for article 293

Pickling archive state into
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/support/pipermail.pck

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "bin/arch", line 200, in ?

    main()

  File "bin/arch", line 188, in main

    archiver.processUnixMailbox(fp, start, end)

  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 585, in
processUnixMailbox

    self.add_article(a)

  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 626, in
add_article

    filename))

  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 1116, in
write_article

    f.write(article.as_text())

  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 579, in
as_text

    '\g<1>' + _(' at ') + '\g<2>', body)

  File "/usr/sfw/lib/python2.3/sre.py", line 143, in sub

    return _compile(pattern, 0).sub(repl, string, count)

UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe7 in position 93:
ordinal not in range(128)

 

 

Any ideas?

 

Much appreciated,

Kevin



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 14 16:55:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:55:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode
In-Reply-To: <200602141453.k1EEr9wp014214@my.symsoft.se>
Message-ID: <PC174020060214075508031238e8bb00@msapiro>

Kevin McNamee wrote:
>
>I am importing some old mail into a list and I get the following exception:
<snip>
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 579, in
>as_text
>
>    '\g<1>' + _(' at ') + '\g<2>', body)
>
>  File "/usr/sfw/lib/python2.3/sre.py", line 143, in sub
>
>    return _compile(pattern, 0).sub(repl, string, count)
>
>UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe7 in position 93:
>ordinal not in range(128)

Please install the patch at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1405790&group_id=103&atid=300103>.
It fixes this and a few other problems found since release of 2.1.7.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dspreadbury at gmail.com  Tue Feb 14 17:03:01 2006
From: dspreadbury at gmail.com (Daniel Spreadbury)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 16:03:01 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail problems
Message-ID: <e127c9e20602140803t64320722j@mail.gmail.com>

Hi fellow listers,

I'm having some problems with pipermail. I've recently moved my
mailman installation (together with all my web virtual hosts, etc.) to
another server, which I did by making a .tgz file of the
/usr/local/mailman/lists folder and its subdirectories, built mailman
on the new server (which is more or less exactly the same
configuration as the old one, then unzipped the .tgz file to replace
the default 'lists' folder with my old one.

Most things seem to work, but my /pipermail aliases don't work at all.

In my Apache virtual host definition, I have this line:

Alias /pipermail "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/"

That folder exists, and contains links, like this:

lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  mailman   55 Feb 14 15:53 composers-list ->
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/composers-list
lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  mailman   48 Feb 12 14:39 members-list ->
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/members-list

Is that correct? The actual /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/
folder contains folders called e.g.

composers-list.mbox
members-list.mbox

so on the face of it the links are actually wrong anyway.

I've run /bin/check_perms -f and no problems have been reported.

Can anybody help me sort this out? Do I need to run one of the mailman
administrative tools to fix this? If so, which one?

Thanks for any assistance you can offer!

Daniel


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 14 17:33:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 08:33:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pipermail problems
In-Reply-To: <e127c9e20602140803t64320722j@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602140833100468ee286ffe@msapiro>

Daniel Spreadbury wrote:
>
>In my Apache virtual host definition, I have this line:
>
>Alias /pipermail "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/"
>
>That folder exists, and contains links, like this:
>
>lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  mailman   55 Feb 14 15:53 composers-list ->
>/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/composers-list
>lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  mailman   48 Feb 12 14:39 members-list ->
>/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/members-list
>
>Is that correct? The actual /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/
>folder contains folders called e.g.
>
>composers-list.mbox
>members-list.mbox
>
>so on the face of it the links are actually wrong anyway.


The links aren't 'wrong'. It's just that the archives aren't there yet.

Did you actually move any archives? Did you want to?

If the directories (folders)
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/xxx.mbox/ contain a file xxx-mbox,
and that contains the old messages, you can rebuild the archives with

bin/arch --wipe composers-list

and

bin/arch --wipe members-list

But from your description, it seems you didn't actually move any
archives, so the xxx.mbox files probably aren't there.

What to do now depends on whether or not you want the old archives.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pierrox at no-log.org  Tue Feb 14 17:14:38 2006
From: pierrox at no-log.org (Pierrox)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 17:14:38 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Digest containing accented letters
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1139932539.11927.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <C017C07E.5874%pierrox@no-log.org>

Hello,

My knowledge isn't great, but I managed to install mailman 2.1.7 at home, on
Mac OSX. Everything seems fine, appart from the digest...

I'm still doing tests at the moment. When I post tests containing accented
letters in the body (I write in French), those get thru the HMTL->Plaintext
filter without any problems. Whether those tests are written in HTML or
directly in plain text. The messages sent to the members are readable
without any problem.

But when it comes to Digests...
- if a user gets Mime Digests, he can read the text, but each message to the
list is also present as an attachement. Not fabulous...
- if a user gets Plaintext Digests, the text is garbled. Each accented
letter, be it an ?, ? or ? or whatever, is replaced with a "?" character.

Not exactly usefull, and that's what I'm trying to fix.

I searched the archives, but didn't find a solution yet.
Thanks for your help!
Pierre




From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 14 17:43:59 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 08:43:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I've built apache, sendmail,
	mailman successfully, how to make them work?
In-Reply-To: <a0e7fcb20602140418h1d3b8f61we2eaf61ce051d0e5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006021408435906872d75b10a@msapiro>

lovecreatesbeauty wrote:
>
>I built an mailing list named 'jive-list', and one site-wide list
>named 'Mailman'. I invite some users to the jive-list, and the users
>belong to local unix account can receive the invitations, but the
>external email address can not receive them.


So apparently sendmail can't send to addresses outside the local
domain. This is not a Mailman issue.


>The invitation received by local unix users shown as (sorry it's a little long):
>
>--- --- --- invitation --- --- ---
<headers snipped>
>
>Hi, it's the Mailman mailing list for jive newsgroup. Enjoy!Welcome to
>the Jive-list at 192.168.1.68 mailing list!

<snip>
>--- --- --- invitation ends --- --- ---


If you are going to use a lan side IP address as the host_name for the
list, external users will never be able to post to it.


>But following mail received also:
>
>--- --- --- the 2nd mail --- --- ---
>>From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Feb 14 15:15:45 2006
>Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON at joe.com>
>Received: from localhost (localhost)
>	by joe.com (8.13.1+Sun/8.13.1) id k1E7FhLR000778;
>	Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:15:44 +0800 (CST)
>Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:15:44 +0800 (CST)
>From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON>
>Message-Id: <200602140715.k1E7FhLR000778 at joe.com>
>To: postmaster
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
>	boundary="k1E7FhLR000778.1139901344/joe.com"
>Subject: Postmaster notify: see transcript for details
>Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (postmaster-notification)
>Content-Length: 1534
>Status: O
>
>This is a MIME-encapsulated message
>
>--k1E7FhLR000778.1139901344/joe.com
><snip>
>--- --- --- the 2nd mail ends --- --- ---


This is apparently a bounce explaining why mail can't be delivered to
someone at joe.com. You've snipped all the detail which says why.


>When one user (local unix user) send mail to mailing list (for
>example, jive-list at 192.168.1.68), then other local unix users
>subscribered the mailing list can receive the email, like following
>the mail.
>
>--- --- --- the 3rd mail --- --- ---
<post snipped>
>--- --- --- the 3rd mail ends--- --- ---
>
>Does it seem that my configuration ok?


No. If you want this list to be able to serve outside users, you have
to configure the url host and email host as domain names which are
visible both inside and outside your lan and are routed appropriately.


>By the way, I didn't know how to configure my Solaris Unix to enable
>the network. Do I need to create and edit /etc/resolv.conf, /etc/hosts
>or some other files.


Yes, but these are not Mailman questions.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 14 18:11:37 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 09:11:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription settings not taking
In-Reply-To: <pan.2006.02.14.14.48.25.587224@adelphia.net>
Message-ID: <PC174020060214091137012538e8ba62@msapiro>

beartooth wrote:
>
>It did take from Epiphany. So what do I tell the people in opera.general,
>over on news.opera.no, who'll be able to do something about it? Just that
>setting the subscription options worked with Epiphany but not Opera, or is
>there something else I'm not getting?


When you log in to your options page at
<http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/beartooth at adelphia.net>,
mailman sets a session cookie by sending the http header

Set-Cookie: mailman-users+user+beartooth--at--adelphia.net=xxx;
Path=/mailman/; Version=1

where xxx is a string of hex digits (characters 0-9 and a-f)
representing a hash of your password and other data.

Can opera show you it's set cookies. If so, and you can see this
cookie, so far so good. If opera can show you it's cookies and this
isn't there after you sent your password and received your options
page, then opera didn't accept the cookie.

Then when you submit your (revised) options, opera should send the post
data with a cookie header

Cookie: mailman-users+user+beartooth--at--adelphia.net=xxx

where xxx is the same data as in the Set-Cookie: header.

Something in this process isn't happening. I.e. Mailman is setting a
cookie that is not being accepted and returned as set.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lists05 at equinephotoart.com  Tue Feb 14 18:05:02 2006
From: lists05 at equinephotoart.com (JC Dill)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 09:05:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a security hole in Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <200602131653.k1DGrF9F029247@steeplechase-hoa.org>
References: <200602131653.k1DGrF9F029247@steeplechase-hoa.org>
Message-ID: <43F20DBE.90700@equinephotoart.com>

Jon D. Slater wrote:
> Some are pretty generic ("board") while others are not
> ("DesignReviewCommittee").

Are your list submission addresses on the web anywhere?  Do a google 
search for listname at domain (search both "web" and "groups") and see if 
you get any matches.  If you do, then the email address is going to get 
spam because if a search engine has found a page with the email address 
on it then a spammer's email scraping web spider will have found the 
page too.

jc


From kd5de at nwla.com  Tue Feb 14 18:41:36 2006
From: kd5de at nwla.com (Mel Sojka)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 11:41:36 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtusertable with 2.1.7
Message-ID: <43F21650.7@nwla.com>

Folks I upgraded from 2.0.8 to 2.1.7 and now getting some sendmail 
returns that seem to point to the virtusertable. With the 10 aliases in 
2.1.7 what exactly needs to go in the virtusertable to male sendmail 
happy. The FAQ wizard caries me to 2.0 releases.
                                                                         
                                                                        
            Yhanks Mel
                                                                         
                                                                        
                                

-- 
System Janitor/Network Plumber http://www.nwla.com
Linux User #25446    Linux 2.6.15



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 14 18:43:13 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 09:43:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Digest containing accented letters
In-Reply-To: <C017C07E.5874%pierrox@no-log.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006021409431309061254f9d7@msapiro>

Pierrox wrote:
>
>But when it comes to Digests...
>- if a user gets Mime Digests, he can read the text, but each message to the
>list is also present as an attachement. Not fabulous...


If you use an MUA that understands MIME typt multipart/digest, these
will be seen as messages, not attachments.


>- if a user gets Plaintext Digests, the text is garbled. Each accented
>letter, be it an =E9, =E8 or =E0 or whatever, is replaced with a "?" character.
>
>Not exactly usefull, and that's what I'm trying to fix.


It sounds like your list language is English, the character set for
which in Mailman is us-ascii, so the digest is sent in us-ascii which
doesn't support those characters, thus the '?'.

Try setting the list language to French. Or, if you really need it to
be English, you can put the following in mm_cfg.py

def _(s):
    return s

add_language('en',    _('English (USA)'),       'iso-8859-1')

del _

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Feb 14 18:33:24 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 18:33:24 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription settings not taking
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0602131512340.1343@titan.lserv.com>
References: <PC1740200602131257070203de249912@msapiro>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0602131512340.1343@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <p06200700c017c47aea65@[10.0.1.210]>

At 3:15 PM -0800 2006-02-13, Beartooth wrote:

>  On Mon, 13 Feb 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>>  If you're sure your browser is accepting cookies, it may be that a
>>  local firewall or something similar is interfering with setting and
>>  returning cookies.
>
>   	I doubt that, intensely. But I know some sites have trouble
>  with Opera and session cookies; I just hadn't imagined Mailman's could
>  be one such.

	I have never heard of anyone having cookie problems with the 
Mailman installation on mail.python.org, at least not anything 
specific to a particular browser.  If you would like to do some live 
debugging, let me know and I'll be glad to schedule a time where we 
can do some testing.

	I use Safari myself, but I also have Opera, Firefox, and a number 
of other browsers I can try.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 14 19:18:55 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 10:18:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtusertable with 2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <43F21650.7@nwla.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006021410185509532b39b210@msapiro>

Mel Sojka wrote:

>Folks I upgraded from 2.0.8 to 2.1.7 and now getting some sendmail 
>returns that seem to point to the virtusertable. With the 10 aliases in 
>2.1.7 what exactly needs to go in the virtusertable to male sendmail 
>happy. The FAQ wizard caries me to 2.0 releases.

Are you getting returns (bounces) on mail to list addresses or on mail
from Mailman? I don't know exactly what should go in virtusertable -
anything I would say would only be guessing - but I'm pretty sure it
only affects incoming mail, not outgoing.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Tue Feb 14 19:40:04 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 10:40:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription settings not taking
In-Reply-To: <p06200700c017c47aea65@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <PC1740200602131257070203de249912@msapiro>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0602131512340.1343@titan.lserv.com>
	<p06200700c017c47aea65@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0602141032310.2505@titan.lserv.com>

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006, Brad Knowles wrote:

> 	I have never heard of anyone having cookie problems with the 
> Mailman installation on mail.python.org, at least not anything 
> specific to a particular browser.  If you would like to do some live 
> debugging, let me know and I'll be glad to schedule a time where we 
> can do some testing.
>
> 	I use Safari myself, but I also have Opera, Firefox, and a 
> number of other browsers I can try.

 	OK, gladly.

 	First, though, in case it obviates any time or effort, a 
couple of Opera details. I have mine set to treat normal cookies as 
specified in Server Manager, and to accept only cookies set to the 
server itself. Could the trouble be there?

 	Also, under Network, I have Opera set not to enable referrer 
logging nor automatic redirection. Sometimes backing off one of those 
strictures keeps me from getting a blank white window; dunno about 
login screens. I didn't try backing either off against python's, but 
am willing to, if by any chance python uses either of those things.

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, Neo-Redneck Linux Enthusiast
I try to be paranoid, but I just can't keep up.



From kd5de at nwla.com  Tue Feb 14 19:43:24 2006
From: kd5de at nwla.com (Mel Sojka)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 12:43:24 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtusertable with 2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006021410185509532b39b210@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006021410185509532b39b210@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43F224CC.1050107@nwla.com>

Well I am getting errors on incoming to the bounces aliases for the two 
list that were upgraded. In 2.0 I had the list , the admin, request and 
the owner (pointing to admin) in the virtusertable.  I have all 10 of 
the aliases for both these list in /etc/mail/aliases and newaliases of 
course was run. What appears to be happening is when a post is made the 
return from an old bad address is causing the problem, mail is going out 
fine.  Just filling up the postmasters mail box.
                                                                         
                                                                        
                        Mel

-- 
System Janitor/Network Plumber http://www.nwla.com
Linux User #25446    Linux 2.6.15



From pierrox at no-log.org  Tue Feb 14 19:57:45 2006
From: pierrox at no-log.org (Pierrox)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 19:57:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Digest containing accented letters
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006021409431309061254f9d7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C017E6B9.588C%pierrox@no-log.org>

Le 14/02/06 18:43, ??Mark Sapiro?? <msapiro at value.net> a ?crit?:

> It sounds like your list language is English, the character set for
> which in Mailman is us-ascii, so the digest is sent in us-ascii which
> doesn't support those characters, thus the '?'.
> 
> Try setting the list language to French. Or, if you really need it to
> be English, you can put the following in mm_cfg.py
> 
> def _(s):
>     return s
> 
> add_language('en',    _('English (USA)'),       'iso-8859-1')
> 
> del _
> 

I could try that indeed, but I have a question first: if I add these lines
into my mm_cfg.py, will it affect only the new lists, or will the existing
list be modified too ?

Thanks, Pierre




From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 14 19:59:52 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 10:59:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription settings not taking
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0602141032310.2505@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602141059520015c820a4e3@msapiro>

Beartooth wrote:
>
> 	First, though, in case it obviates any time or effort, a 
>couple of Opera details. I have mine set to treat normal cookies as 
>specified in Server Manager, and to accept only cookies set to the 
>server itself. Could the trouble be there?


As I indicated in my previous reply, the Set-Cookie: sent by mailman
specifies return only if Path=/mailman/. It is to be returned to the
server (mail.python.org) itself but only for mail.python.org/mailman/*
URLs. I don't know if that is going to be a problem or not.


> 	Also, under Network, I have Opera set not to enable referrer 
>logging nor automatic redirection. Sometimes backing off one of those 
>strictures keeps me from getting a blank white window; dunno about 
>login screens. I didn't try backing either off against python's, but 
>am willing to, if by any chance python uses either of those things.


I don't think this is an issue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Tue Feb 14 20:05:05 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 11:05:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription settings not taking
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602141059520015c820a4e3@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200602141059520015c820a4e3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0602141103171.2505@titan.lserv.com>

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Beartooth wrote:
>>
>> 	First, though, in case it obviates any time or effort, a
>> couple of Opera details. I have mine set to treat normal cookies as
>> specified in Server Manager, and to accept only cookies set to the
>> server itself. Could the trouble be there?
>
>
> As I indicated in my previous reply, the Set-Cookie: sent by mailman 
> specifies return only if Path=/mailman/. It is to be returned to the 
> server (mail.python.org) itself but only for 
> mail.python.org/mailman/* URLs. I don't know if that is going to be 
> a problem or not.

 	Now you're over my head. Sorry.
>
>> 	Also, under Network, I have Opera set not to enable referrer 
>> logging nor automatic redirection. Sometimes backing off one of 
>> those strictures keeps me from getting a blank white window; dunno 
>> about login screens. I didn't try backing either off against 
>> python's, but am willing to, if by any chance python uses either of 
>> those things.
>
>
> I don't think this is an issue.

 	Oh good. Thanks. I'd be surprised -- but after all, it's 
neither Mailman nor python I try to be paranoid about. <grin>

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, PhD, Neo-Redneck Linux Convert
What do they know of country, who only country know?


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 14 20:07:06 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 11:07:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Digest containing accentedletters
In-Reply-To: <C017E6B9.588C%pierrox@no-log.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602141107060750a41172b4@msapiro>

Pierrox wrote:
>
>I could try that indeed, but I have a question first: if I add these lines
>into my mm_cfg.py, will it affect only the new lists, or will the existing
>list be modified too ?


The language table doesn't affect the list per se. It specifies the
description and character set corresponding to the various language
codes, so you can change the character set corresponding to 'en' and
it will affect anything and everything that's language 'en', and
likewise if you change it back.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 14 20:23:42 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 11:23:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription settings not taking
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0602141103171.2505@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602141123420140c820a556@msapiro>

Beartooth wrote:

>On Tue, 14 Feb 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Beartooth wrote:
>>>
>>> 	First, though, in case it obviates any time or effort, a
>>> couple of Opera details. I have mine set to treat normal cookies as
>>> specified in Server Manager, and to accept only cookies set to the
>>> server itself. Could the trouble be there?
>>
>>
>> As I indicated in my previous reply, the Set-Cookie: sent by mailman 
>> specifies return only if Path=/mailman/. It is to be returned to the 
>> server (mail.python.org) itself but only for 
>> mail.python.org/mailman/* URLs. I don't know if that is going to be 
>> a problem or not.
>
> 	Now you're over my head. Sorry.

Sorry. What I was trying to say is that Mailman sets the cookie in such
a way that it will be returned only to URLs of the form
<http://mail.python.org/mailman/*>, and not for example to a URL such
as <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/*>. This is even more restrictive
than just sending to the server itself, so I would guess that Opera
should accept it in this case, but maybe that's what's broken.

Can you ask Opera to show you all the cookies it currently has? If so,
go to your options page and log in and then see if Opera has the
cookie from mail.python.org.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 14 21:08:52 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 12:08:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtusertable with 2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <43F224CC.1050107@nwla.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602141208520046ee286e82@msapiro>

Mel Sojka wrote:

>Well I am getting errors on incoming to the bounces aliases for the two 
>list that were upgraded. In 2.0 I had the list , the admin, request and 
>the owner (pointing to admin) in the virtusertable.  I have all 10 of 
>the aliases for both these list in /etc/mail/aliases and newaliases of 
>course was run. What appears to be happening is when a post is made the 
>return from an old bad address is causing the problem, mail is going out 
>fine.  Just filling up the postmasters mail box.


I'm very weak on this so take it with "a grain of salt", but I think if
there aren't issues with the list address local parts conflicting with
non-mailman addresses, you don't need anything Mailman related in
virtusertable as long as you have all the aliases (10 per list) in
/etc/mail/aliases.

Is this your current situation, or do you have Mailman related stuff in
virtusertable? If so, what?

Is the issue with VERP like returns to addresses like
list-bounces+user=user.domain at list.domain?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pierrox at no-log.org  Tue Feb 14 21:18:49 2006
From: pierrox at no-log.org (Pierrox)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 21:18:49 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Digest containing accented letters
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006021409431309061254f9d7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C017F9B9.58A4%pierrox@no-log.org>

> you can put the following in mm_cfg.py
> 
> def _(s):
>     return s
> 
> add_language('en',    _('English (USA)'),       'iso-8859-1')
> 
> del _

It worked perfectly!
I had tried changing the language of the list in the web interface earlier,
but without any success. That was the trick!

Thanks, Pierre




From kd5de at nwla.com  Tue Feb 14 21:30:14 2006
From: kd5de at nwla.com (Mel Sojka)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 14:30:14 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtusertable with 2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602141208520046ee286e82@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200602141208520046ee286e82@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43F23DD6.5000900@nwla.com>

Well Mark what I have currently in the Virtusertable is
maillist at aabb.com   maillist
maillist-admin at aabb.com    maillist-admin
maillist-request at aabb.com    maillist-request
maillist-owner at aabb.com   maillist-admin
maillist-bounces at aabb.com maillist-bounces

But I just looked at some of the sendmail returns and I believe I did 
fix_url wrong for the two domains where the problems lie. It appears 
that fix_url was done to mail.aabb.com and not aabb.com if that would 
cause a problem. Going to have to study up on fix_url again it appears.

-- 
System Janitor/Network Plumber http://www.nwla.com
Linux User #25446    Linux 2.6.15



From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Tue Feb 14 21:31:02 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 12:31:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription settings not taking
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602141123420140c820a556@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200602141123420140c820a556@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0602141227430.2505@titan.lserv.com>

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:


> Sorry. What I was trying to say is that Mailman sets the cookie in 
> such a way that it will be returned only to URLs of the form 
> <http://mail.python.org/mailman/*>, and not for example to a URL 
> such as <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/*>. This is even more 
> restrictive than just sending to the server itself, so I would guess 
> that Opera should accept it in this case, but maybe that's what's 
> broken.

 	Makes sense.

> Can you ask Opera to show you all the cookies it currently has? If 
> so, go to your options page and log in and then see if Opera has the 
> cookie from mail.python.org.

 	Interesting. It does not. And I don't know why not. :-{

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, PhD, Neo-Redneck Linux Convert
Remember that I have precious little idea what I'm talking about!


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 14 21:32:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 12:32:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Digest containing accentedletters
In-Reply-To: <C017F9B9.58A4%pierrox@no-log.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006021412325009372d75b1fb@msapiro>

Pierrox wrote:

>I had tried changing the language of the list in the web interface earlier,
>but without any success. That was the trick!


In order to change the list language via the web, you need two steps.
First select the language with the check box for available_languages
and Submit Your Changes. Then select the desired language for
preferred_language and Submit Your Changes again.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 14 21:46:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 12:46:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtusertable with 2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <43F23DD6.5000900@nwla.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006021412464304849a85726f@msapiro>

Mel Sojka wrote:

>Well Mark what I have currently in the Virtusertable is
>maillist at aabb.com   maillist
>maillist-admin at aabb.com    maillist-admin
>maillist-request at aabb.com    maillist-request
>maillist-owner at aabb.com   maillist-admin

This one is definitely wrong. In Mailman 2.1.x, maillist-admin is a
deprecated name, and it goes to bounce processing, not to the owner.


>maillist-bounces at aabb.com maillist-bounces


I think you can remove all the above from virtusertable and remap it
unless you have a pontential conflict with a non-mailman address in
some other domain, e.g. maillist at ccdd.com.


>But I just looked at some of the sendmail returns and I believe I did 
>fix_url wrong for the two domains where the problems lie. It appears 
>that fix_url was done to mail.aabb.com and not aabb.com if that would 
>cause a problem. Going to have to study up on fix_url again it appears.


That could cause more than one problem, but I think even with the

maillist-bounces at aabb.com maillist-bounces

entry in virtusertable, both maillist-bounces at aabb.com and
maillist-bounces at mail.aabb.com will be delivered to mailman anyway,
the former by being redirected to the local maillist-bounces alias via
virtusertable and the latter by getting directly to the alias.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 14 21:51:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 12:51:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription settings not taking
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0602141227430.2505@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602141251080843faca6b33@msapiro>

Beartooth wrote:

>On Tue, 14 Feb 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Can you ask Opera to show you all the cookies it currently has? If 
>> so, go to your options page and log in and then see if Opera has the 
>> cookie from mail.python.org.
>
> 	Interesting. It does not. And I don't know why not. :-{


Because Opera didn't accept it, so now the question is what cookie
settings do you have to change in order to get the cookie accepted,
and once you know that, is it by design or a bug. This is the issue
you need to take to Opera.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kd5de at nwla.com  Tue Feb 14 21:57:47 2006
From: kd5de at nwla.com (Mel Sojka)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 14:57:47 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtusertable with 2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006021412464304849a85726f@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006021412464304849a85726f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43F2444B.1060603@nwla.com>

Well I dumped the maillist-admin Gosh it is still in the aliases for 
2.1.7 since I have created several list. I guess the virtuser for 
maillist-owner should be maillist-owner also. Made those changes see it 
that will clear up the little headache.

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Mel Sojka wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Well Mark what I have currently in the Virtusertable is
>>maillist at aabb.com   maillist
>>maillist-admin at aabb.com    maillist-admin
>>maillist-request at aabb.com    maillist-request
>>maillist-owner at aabb.com   maillist-admin
>>    
>>
>
>This one is definitely wrong. In Mailman 2.1.x, maillist-admin is a
>deprecated name, and it goes to bounce processing, not to the owner.
>
>
>  
>
>>maillist-bounces at aabb.com maillist-bounces
>>    
>>
>
>
>I think you can remove all the above from virtusertable and remap it
>unless you have a pontential conflict with a non-mailman address in
>some other domain, e.g. maillist at ccdd.com.
>
>
>  
>
>>But I just looked at some of the sendmail returns and I believe I did 
>>fix_url wrong for the two domains where the problems lie. It appears 
>>that fix_url was done to mail.aabb.com and not aabb.com if that would 
>>cause a problem. Going to have to study up on fix_url again it appears.
>>    
>>
>
>
>That could cause more than one problem, but I think even with the
>
>maillist-bounces at aabb.com maillist-bounces
>
>entry in virtusertable, both maillist-bounces at aabb.com and
>maillist-bounces at mail.aabb.com will be delivered to mailman anyway,
>the former by being redirected to the local maillist-bounces alias via
>virtusertable and the latter by getting directly to the alias.
>
>  
>

-- 
System Janitor/Network Plumber http://www.nwla.com
Linux User #25446    Linux 2.6.15



From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Tue Feb 14 21:59:06 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 12:59:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription settings not taking
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602141251080843faca6b33@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200602141251080843faca6b33@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0602141253460.2505@titan.lserv.com>

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Beartooth wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 14 Feb 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>>> Can you ask Opera to show you all the cookies it currently has? If 
>>> so, go to your options page and log in and then see if Opera has 
>>> the cookie from mail.python.org.
>>
>> 	Interesting. It does not. And I don't know why not. :-{
>
>
> Because Opera didn't accept it, so now the question is what cookie 
> settings do you have to change in order to get the cookie accepted, 
> and once you know that, is it by design or a bug. This is the issue 
> you need to take to Opera.

 	OK, will do. Will they want the URL of the subscription site, 
do you think, or the info about the type of cookie it sets, or both? 
It's actually a usenet group, only hosted by Opera. If anybody else 
wants in on this, it's at news.opera.no, and the ones where I'll 
ask are opera.general and opera.linux; they do not seem to be the same 
as the similarly named groups on Gmane.

 	I'll go get a draft post to it started.

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, PhD, Neo-Redneck Linux Convert
What do they know of country, who only country know?


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 14 22:15:31 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:15:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription settings not taking
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0602141253460.2505@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006021413153100319a85709e@msapiro>

Beartooth wrote:
>
> 	OK, will do. Will they want the URL of the subscription site, 
>do you think, or the info about the type of cookie it sets, or both? 


The actual Set-Cookie: header is described in my post at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-February/049297.html>.
The URL alone won't do any good because Mailman sets the cookie in the
reply to a successful login which requires a vaild member address and
password.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 14 22:30:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:30:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtusertable with 2.1.7
In-Reply-To: <43F2444B.1060603@nwla.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006021413304301256efeeec8@msapiro>

Mel Sojka wrote:

>Well I dumped the maillist-admin Gosh it is still in the aliases for 
>2.1.7 since I have created several list.


Yes, there is still a -admin alias, but it is handled the same as
-bounces, and Mailman never actually puts that address on anything. It
basically only exists because for a brief time after converting from
2.0.x to 2.1.x, there might be bounces of posts sent under 2.0.x
returned to the -admin address.

>I guess the virtuser for 
>maillist-owner should be maillist-owner also.


Yes, but assuming you need these at all you should have all 10 of them
per list, but I still think you don't need any of them in
virtusertable.

In otherwords, when you put

list-xx at aabb.com	list-xx

in virtusertable, you are saying mail to list-xx at aabb.com should be
delivered to local mailbox list-xx or via the local alias for list-xx
if any, but if there is no such entry in virtusertable, the default
for mail to list-xx at any.domain is deliver to local mailbox or via
local alias for list-xx.

So I still think that unless there is some conflict with a non-mailman
list-xx at other.domain, you don't need any of this in virtusertable.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Tue Feb 14 22:42:47 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:42:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription settings not taking
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006021413153100319a85709e@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006021413153100319a85709e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0602141330370.2505@titan.lserv.com>

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Beartooth wrote:
>>
>> 	OK, will do. Will they want the URL of the subscription site, 
>> do you think, or the info about the type of cookie it sets, or 
>> both?
>
> The actual Set-Cookie: header is described in my post at 
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-February/049297.html>. 
> The URL alone won't do any good because Mailman sets the cookie in 
> the reply to a successful login which requires a valid member 
> address and password.

 	Oho! Good thing I held the draft -- we *may* have made a 
discovery.

 	Background: I run two addresses -- the one which I believe 
Gmane has started letting me post from, Beartooth (at) adelphia.net 
(which is the one my newsreader uses) -- and the one I'm using now, 
karhunhammas (at) Lserv.com. It is this one I now have subscribed and 
tweaked. Your post, linked to above, presumes it's the other.

 	But I don't know whether that tells us anything. Or should I 
just copy your text into my draft, and substitute one address for the 
other?

 	(In case you wonder: Adelphia the Utterly Accursed is the only 
broadband ISP I can get where I am, and I access usenet through it; 
Lserv.com is the remote ISP that I ssh into, and get much better 
service from, specifically for email. I check my adelphia mail (POP3, 
<gnash, snarl>) a couple times a day, and keep the ssh to Lserv (IMAP) 
open continuously.)

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, PhD, Neo-Redneck Linux Convert
What do they know of country, who only country know?


From Carl.Buff at sanmina-sci.com  Tue Feb 14 22:54:46 2006
From: Carl.Buff at sanmina-sci.com (Carl Buff)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:54:46 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about lost passwords
Message-ID: <s3f1fd5d.081@gwise1.sanmina-sci.com>

I read the following FAQ but can seem to make it work on my end:
 
3.8. I forgot my list password! How do I get it back?The site password
can be used to log into anywhere a member password or list password
would go. So you can reset the password to something you do know: use
the site password to log into the list and change the password (you
don't need to know the old list password to do this). If you haven't got
a site password, use $(MAILMAN_HOME)/bin/mmsitepass to set one. 
(If you are not also the site administrator, have the site
administrator change the list password for you. Once the site
administrator has set it, you have a new list password, and you can
change it again to something that only you know.) 
If you have a shell on the box running mailman, you can use the (
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/ ) change_pw tool. Run change_pw --help for usage.
 
- My problem is ... that I don't have a change_pw under the
/mailman/bin ... and when I log into the list with the Site Admin
password - I can seem to change the password. I mean, I change it - but
it doesn't take.
 
Any suggestions?
 
Carl Buff
Enterprise Messaging Services Administrator (GroupWise) , CNE, GW-CNA
Enterprise Computing and Messaging Services (ECMS)
Sanmina-SCI Corporation
8600 Memorial Parkway SW - MS150
Huntsville, AL 35803
Phone:  256-882-4214
Cell: 256-508-2715
FAX: 256-882-4039
***NOTICE***
This electronic mail transmission may contain confidential or
privileged information. If you believe you have received the message
in
error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the
message without copying or disclosing it. 


_____________________________________________________________________________
Scanned by Sanmina-SCI eShield  _____________________________________________________________________________
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From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb 15 00:02:12 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:02:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription settings not taking
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0602141330370.2505@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602141502120671831d0e0b@msapiro>

Beartooth wrote:
>
> 	Background: I run two addresses -- the one which I believe 
>Gmane has started letting me post from, Beartooth (at) adelphia.net 
>(which is the one my newsreader uses) -- and the one I'm using now, 
>karhunhammas (at) Lserv.com. It is this one I now have subscribed and 
>tweaked. Your post, linked to above, presumes it's the other.


Actually, it doesn't matter. It can be any list member address. It
affects the actual name and data of the cookie, but not the form of
the Set-Cookie: http header. Also, the Set-Cookie: is not actually
returned until after you've provided a valid password.

In the referenced post, I just made up the beartooth--at--adelphia.net
from the address in one of your posts. I didn't actually log in to
your options page because I don't know your password.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb 15 00:18:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:18:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about lost passwords
In-Reply-To: <s3f1fd5d.081@gwise1.sanmina-sci.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060214151850003138e8ba11@msapiro>

Carl Buff wrote:
>
>I read the following FAQ but can seem to make it work on my end:
> 
>3.8. I forgot my list password! How do I get it back?
<snip> 
>- My problem is ... that I don't have a change_pw under the
>/mailman/bin ... and when I log into the list with the Site Admin
>password - I can seem to change the password. I mean, I change it - but
>it doesn't take.

bin/change_pw has been in the distribution since 2.1a2 (over 4 years).
I don't know why you wouldn't have it unless yours is a 2.0.x
installation, in which case I don't think I can help much anyway.

You can download change_pw from
<http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/mailman/mailman/bin/change_pw?view=log>,
but if you do this, you need to change @PYTHON@ on the first line to
the actual path to python on your system.

Do other changes you make in the admin interface 'stick'. If so, I have
no idea why a password change wouldn't, but if not see FAQs 4.45
and/or 4.65.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 15 00:26:20 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 18:26:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message discarded
Message-ID: <43F2671C.9070801@yahoo.com>

When vette log says

  "Message discarded" msgid: blah...

What can I do to determine the reason why the message was discarded?

-Jim P.



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb 15 00:54:58 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:54:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message discarded
In-Reply-To: <43F2671C.9070801@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602141554580031ee286e79@msapiro>

Jim Popovitch wrote:

>When vette log says
>
>  "Message discarded" msgid: blah...
>
>What can I do to determine the reason why the message was discarded?

Those are moderator discards. If you want to know why the post was held
for moderation in the first place, look for the same msgid earlier in
the log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb 15 01:17:03 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 16:17:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message discarded
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602141554580031ee286e79@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602141617030390ee286fa9@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Jim Popovitch wrote:
>
>>When vette log says
>>
>>  "Message discarded" msgid: blah...
>>
>>What can I do to determine the reason why the message was discarded?
>
>Those are moderator discards. If you want to know why the post was held
>for moderation in the first place, look for the same msgid earlier in
>the log.

This is wrong. I don't know what I was thinking. Actually moderator
discards generally log a lot more.

"Message discarded" with only a message id and no reason occurs
whenever a handler raises Errors.DiscardMessage without providing
additional text. This occurs in several places.

Examples are when nothing is left after content filtering, a post from
a moderated user when action is discard, a post from a non-member in
discard_these_nonmembers, a post from a non-member with generic action
discard, some cases of a text/html post when ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER =
0 and a post matching a header_filter_rule with discard action.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 15 01:17:20 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 19:17:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message discarded
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602141554580031ee286e79@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200602141554580031ee286e79@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43F27310.40007@yahoo.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Jim Popovitch wrote:
> 
>> When vette log says
>>
>>  "Message discarded" msgid: blah...
>>
>> What can I do to determine the reason why the message was discarded?
> 
> Those are moderator discards. If you want to know why the post was held
> for moderation in the first place, look for the same msgid earlier in
> the log.

Thanks Mark,

I don't think that is 100% accurate though.  I sent the email in 
question and it was promptly discarded.  Here's the relevant line from 
vette:

Feb 14 15:05:14 2006 (31601) Message discarded, msgid: 
<f971bab40602141200j48a3ee06k23b448e8f44fe347 at mail.gmail.com>

31601 is the IncomingRunner, there is no other mention of that msgid in 
vette.

Any idea what I can do to get more info?

-Jim P.




From jimpop at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 15 01:18:49 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 19:18:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message discarded
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602141617030390ee286fa9@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200602141617030390ee286fa9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43F27369.6010003@yahoo.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
>> Jim Popovitch wrote:
>>
>>> When vette log says
>>>
>>>  "Message discarded" msgid: blah...
>>>
>>> What can I do to determine the reason why the message was discarded?
>> Those are moderator discards. If you want to know why the post was held
>> for moderation in the first place, look for the same msgid earlier in
>> the log.
> 
> This is wrong. I don't know what I was thinking. Actually moderator
> discards generally log a lot more.
> 
> "Message discarded" with only a message id and no reason occurs
> whenever a handler raises Errors.DiscardMessage without providing
> additional text. This occurs in several places.
> 
> Examples are when nothing is left after content filtering, a post from
> a moderated user when action is discard, a post from a non-member in
> discard_these_nonmembers, a post from a non-member with generic action
> discard, some cases of a text/html post when ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER =
> 0 and a post matching a header_filter_rule with discard action.

Excellent info.  Thanks Mark, I'll check into each of those areas.

-Jim P.






From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Feb 15 01:31:50 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 01:31:50 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription settings not taking
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0602141330370.2505@titan.lserv.com>
References: <PC17402006021413153100319a85709e@msapiro>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0602141330370.2505@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <p06200709c0182671e030@[10.0.1.210]>

At 1:42 PM -0800 2006-02-14, Beartooth wrote:

>  	Background: I run two addresses -- the one which I believe Gmane has
>  started letting me post from, Beartooth (at) adelphia.net (which is the
>  one my newsreader uses) -- and the one I'm using now, karhunhammas (at)
>  Lserv.com. It is this one I now have subscribed and tweaked. Your post,
>  linked to above, presumes it's the other.

	If you're talking about posting to the mailman-users and/or 
mailman-developers lists from a Gmane hosted newsgroup, then we need 
to have a talk with them again.

	IIRC, we asked them to stop mirroring the mailman-* mailing lists 
a while back, and if they have stealthed back into the system, then 
we need to look at banning all Gmane addresses from contacting any of 
the python.org sites through any mechanism.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From lovecreatesbeauty at gmail.com  Wed Feb 15 03:21:27 2006
From: lovecreatesbeauty at gmail.com (lovecreatesbeauty)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 10:21:27 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I've built apache, sendmail,
	mailman successfully, how to make them work?
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006021408435906872d75b10a@msapiro>
References: <a0e7fcb20602140418h1d3b8f61we2eaf61ce051d0e5@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006021408435906872d75b10a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <a0e7fcb20602141821n31d75fb6p309e8b75b7a5409f@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Mark,

I configure the network, and nsloookup result shows the status of the network:

$ nslookup www.google.com
nslookup is Obsolete. This command may be removed in a future Solaris
release. Equivalent functionality is provided by nslookup(1m) in
/usr/sfw/sbin.
Server:  czar.thbs.cn.com
Address:  192.168.1.3

Non-authoritative answer:
Name:    www-china.l.google.com
Address:  64.233.189.104
Aliases:  www.google.com, www.l.google.com

$

But when I send invitations, following mails still occures.

--- --- --- the 1st mail received by invitee #1 --- --- ---
>From jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68 Wed Feb 15 09:49:50 2006
Return-Path: <jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68>
Received: from [192.168.1.68] (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by joe.com (8.13.1+Sun/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k1F1nnvG000603
	for <joshua at joe.com>; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:49 +0800 (CST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Welcome to the "Jive-list" mailing list
From: jive-list-request at 192.168.1.68
To: joshua at joe.com
X-No-Archive: yes
Message-ID: <mailman.4.1139968187.582.jive-list at 192.168.1.68>
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:47 +0800
Precedence: bulk
X-BeenThere: jive-list at 192.168.1.68
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
List-Id: jive-list.192.168.1.68
X-List-Administrivia: yes
Sender: jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68
Errors-To: jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68
Content-Length: 1204

Hi, jive members, this is the invitaion for jive mailing list.
Enjoy!Welcome to the Jive-list at 192.168.1.68 mailing list!

To post to this list, send your email to:

  jive-list at 192.168.1.68

General information about the mailing list is at:

  http://192.168.1.68/mailman/listinfo/jive-list

If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to
or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your
subscription page at:

  http://192.168.1.68/mailman/options/jive-list/joshua%40joe.com

You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to:

  Jive-list-request at 192.168.1.68

with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the
quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions.

You must know your password to change your options (including changing
the password, itself) or to unsubscribe.  It is:

  edmiso

Normally, Mailman will remind you of your 192.168.1.68 mailing list
passwords once every month, although you can disable this if you
prefer.  This reminder will also include instructions on how to
unsubscribe or change your account options.  There is also a button on
your options page that will email your current password to you.
--- --- --- the 1st mail received by invitee #1 ends --- --- ---

--- --- --- the 2st mail received by invitee #2 --- --- ---
>From MAILER-DAEMON Wed Feb 15 09:49:49 2006
Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON at joe.com>
Received: from localhost (localhost)
	by joe.com (8.13.1+Sun/8.13.1) id k1F1nmSG000585;
	Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:48 +0800 (CST)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:48 +0800 (CST)
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON>
Message-Id: <200602150149.k1F1nmSG000585 at joe.com>
To: postmaster
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
	boundary="k1F1nmSG000585.1139968188/joe.com"
Subject: Postmaster notify: see transcript for details
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (postmaster-notification)
Content-Length: 1534

This is a MIME-encapsulated message

--k1F1nmSG000585.1139968188/joe.com

The original message was received at Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:48 +0800 (CST)
from localhost
with id k1F1nmSF000585

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68>
    (reason: 553 5.3.5 system config error)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
553 5.3.5 192.168.1.68 config error: mail loops back to me (MX problem?)
554 5.3.5 Local configuration error

--k1F1nmSG000585.1139968188/joe.com
Content-Type: message/delivery-status

Reporting-MTA: dns; joe.com
Received-From-MTA: DNS; localhost
Arrival-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:48 +0800 (CST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68
Action: failed
Status: 5.3.5
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 553 5.3.5 system config error
Last-Attempt-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:48 +0800 (CST)

--k1F1nmSG000585.1139968188/joe.com
Content-Type: text/rfc822-headers

Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON>
Received: from localhost (localhost)
	by joe.com (8.13.1+Sun/8.13.1) id k1F1nmSF000585;
	Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:48 +0800 (CST)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:48 +0800 (CST)
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON>
Message-Id: <200602150149.k1F1nmSF000585 at joe.com>
To: <jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
	boundary="k1F1nmSF000585.1139968188/joe.com"
Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure)

--k1F1nmSG000585.1139968188/joe.com--


>From MAILER-DAEMON Wed Feb 15 09:49:49 2006
Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON at joe.com>
Received: from localhost (localhost)
	by joe.com (8.13.1+Sun/8.13.1) id k1F1nmN6000588;
	Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:49 +0800 (CST)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:49 +0800 (CST)
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON>
Message-Id: <200602150149.k1F1nmN6000588 at joe.com>
To: postmaster
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
	boundary="k1F1nmN6000588.1139968189/joe.com"
Subject: Postmaster notify: see transcript for details
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (postmaster-notification)
Content-Length: 1534

This is a MIME-encapsulated message

--k1F1nmN6000588.1139968189/joe.com

The original message was received at Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:48 +0800 (CST)
from localhost
with id k1F1nmN5000588

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68>
    (reason: 553 5.3.5 system config error)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
553 5.3.5 192.168.1.68 config error: mail loops back to me (MX problem?)
554 5.3.5 Local configuration error

--k1F1nmN6000588.1139968189/joe.com
Content-Type: message/delivery-status

Reporting-MTA: dns; joe.com
Received-From-MTA: DNS; localhost
Arrival-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:48 +0800 (CST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68
Action: failed
Status: 5.3.5
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 553 5.3.5 system config error
Last-Attempt-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:49 +0800 (CST)

--k1F1nmN6000588.1139968189/joe.com
Content-Type: text/rfc822-headers

Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON>
Received: from localhost (localhost)
	by joe.com (8.13.1+Sun/8.13.1) id k1F1nmN5000588;
	Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:48 +0800 (CST)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:48 +0800 (CST)
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON>
Message-Id: <200602150149.k1F1nmN5000588 at joe.com>
To: <jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
	boundary="k1F1nmN5000588.1139968188/joe.com"
Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure)

--k1F1nmN6000588.1139968189/joe.com--


>From MAILER-DAEMON Wed Feb 15 09:49:49 2006
Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON at joe.com>
Received: from localhost (localhost)
	by joe.com (8.13.1+Sun/8.13.1) id k1F1nnv9000594;
	Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:49 +0800 (CST)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:49 +0800 (CST)
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON>
Message-Id: <200602150149.k1F1nnv9000594 at joe.com>
To: postmaster
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
	boundary="k1F1nnv9000594.1139968189/joe.com"
Subject: Postmaster notify: see transcript for details
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (postmaster-notification)
Content-Length: 1534

This is a MIME-encapsulated message

--k1F1nnv9000594.1139968189/joe.com

The original message was received at Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:49 +0800 (CST)
from localhost
with id k1F1nnv8000594

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68>
    (reason: 553 5.3.5 system config error)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
553 5.3.5 192.168.1.68 config error: mail loops back to me (MX problem?)
554 5.3.5 Local configuration error

--k1F1nnv9000594.1139968189/joe.com
Content-Type: message/delivery-status

Reporting-MTA: dns; joe.com
Received-From-MTA: DNS; localhost
Arrival-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:49 +0800 (CST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68
Action: failed
Status: 5.3.5
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 553 5.3.5 system config error
Last-Attempt-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:49 +0800 (CST)

--k1F1nnv9000594.1139968189/joe.com
Content-Type: text/rfc822-headers

Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON>
Received: from localhost (localhost)
	by joe.com (8.13.1+Sun/8.13.1) id k1F1nnv8000594;
	Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:49 +0800 (CST)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:49 +0800 (CST)
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON>
Message-Id: <200602150149.k1F1nnv8000594 at joe.com>
To: <jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
	boundary="k1F1nnv8000594.1139968189/joe.com"
Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure)

--k1F1nnv9000594.1139968189/joe.com--


>From MAILER-DAEMON Wed Feb 15 09:49:49 2006
Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON at joe.com>
Received: from localhost (localhost)
	by joe.com (8.13.1+Sun/8.13.1) id k1F1nnmD000600;
	Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:49 +0800 (CST)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:49 +0800 (CST)
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON>
Message-Id: <200602150149.k1F1nnmD000600 at joe.com>
To: postmaster
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
	boundary="k1F1nnmD000600.1139968189/joe.com"
Subject: Postmaster notify: see transcript for details
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (postmaster-notification)
Content-Length: 1534

This is a MIME-encapsulated message

--k1F1nnmD000600.1139968189/joe.com

The original message was received at Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:49 +0800 (CST)
from localhost
with id k1F1nnmC000600

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68>
    (reason: 553 5.3.5 system config error)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
553 5.3.5 192.168.1.68 config error: mail loops back to me (MX problem?)
554 5.3.5 Local configuration error

--k1F1nnmD000600.1139968189/joe.com
Content-Type: message/delivery-status

Reporting-MTA: dns; joe.com
Received-From-MTA: DNS; localhost
Arrival-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:49 +0800 (CST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68
Action: failed
Status: 5.3.5
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 553 5.3.5 system config error
Last-Attempt-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:49 +0800 (CST)

--k1F1nnmD000600.1139968189/joe.com
Content-Type: text/rfc822-headers

Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON>
Received: from localhost (localhost)
	by joe.com (8.13.1+Sun/8.13.1) id k1F1nnmC000600;
	Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:49 +0800 (CST)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:49 +0800 (CST)
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON>
Message-Id: <200602150149.k1F1nnmC000600 at joe.com>
To: <jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
	boundary="k1F1nnmC000600.1139968189/joe.com"
Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure)

--k1F1nnmD000600.1139968189/joe.com--


>From jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68 Wed Feb 15 09:49:50 2006
Return-Path: <jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68>
Received: from [192.168.1.68] (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by joe.com (8.13.1+Sun/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k1F1nohj000606
	for <root at joe.com>; Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:50 +0800 (CST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Welcome to the "Jive-list" mailing list
From: jive-list-request at 192.168.1.68
To: root at joe.com
X-No-Archive: yes
Message-ID: <mailman.5.1139968187.582.jive-list at 192.168.1.68>
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:47 +0800
Precedence: bulk
X-BeenThere: jive-list at 192.168.1.68
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
List-Id: jive-list.192.168.1.68
X-List-Administrivia: yes
Sender: jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68
Errors-To: jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68
Content-Length: 1202

Hi, jive members, this is the invitaion for jive mailing list.
Enjoy!Welcome to the Jive-list at 192.168.1.68 mailing list!

To post to this list, send your email to:

  jive-list at 192.168.1.68

General information about the mailing list is at:

  http://192.168.1.68/mailman/listinfo/jive-list

If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to
or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your
subscription page at:

  http://192.168.1.68/mailman/options/jive-list/root%40joe.com

You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to:

  Jive-list-request at 192.168.1.68

with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the
quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions.

You must know your password to change your options (including changing
the password, itself) or to unsubscribe.  It is:

  edigid

Normally, Mailman will remind you of your 192.168.1.68 mailing list
passwords once every month, although you can disable this if you
prefer.  This reminder will also include instructions on how to
unsubscribe or change your account options.  There is also a button on
your options page that will email your current password to you.

>From MAILER-DAEMON Wed Feb 15 09:49:50 2006
Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON at joe.com>
Received: from localhost (localhost)
	by joe.com (8.13.1+Sun/8.13.1) id k1F1noxm000611;
	Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:50 +0800 (CST)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:50 +0800 (CST)
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON>
Message-Id: <200602150149.k1F1noxm000611 at joe.com>
To: postmaster
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
	boundary="k1F1noxm000611.1139968190/joe.com"
Subject: Postmaster notify: see transcript for details
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (postmaster-notification)
Content-Length: 1534

This is a MIME-encapsulated message

--k1F1noxm000611.1139968190/joe.com

The original message was received at Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:50 +0800 (CST)
from localhost
with id k1F1noxl000611

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68>
    (reason: 553 5.3.5 system config error)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
553 5.3.5 192.168.1.68 config error: mail loops back to me (MX problem?)
554 5.3.5 Local configuration error

--k1F1noxm000611.1139968190/joe.com
Content-Type: message/delivery-status

Reporting-MTA: dns; joe.com
Received-From-MTA: DNS; localhost
Arrival-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:50 +0800 (CST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68
Action: failed
Status: 5.3.5
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 553 5.3.5 system config error
Last-Attempt-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:50 +0800 (CST)

--k1F1noxm000611.1139968190/joe.com
Content-Type: text/rfc822-headers

Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON>
Received: from localhost (localhost)
	by joe.com (8.13.1+Sun/8.13.1) id k1F1noxl000611;
	Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:50 +0800 (CST)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:50 +0800 (CST)
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON>
Message-Id: <200602150149.k1F1noxl000611 at joe.com>
To: <jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
	boundary="k1F1noxl000611.1139968190/joe.com"
Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure)

--k1F1noxm000611.1139968190/joe.com--
--- --- --- the 2st mail received by invitee #2 ends --- --- ---

What's wrong with the this configuration? How can I correct it?

Thank you.

On 2/15/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> So apparently sendmail can't send to addresses outside the local
> domain. This is not a Mailman issue.
>
> If you are going to use a lan side IP address as the host_name for the
> list, external users will never be able to post to it.
>
> This is apparently a bounce explaining why mail can't be delivered to
> someone at joe.com. You've snipped all the detail which says why.
>
> No. If you want this list to be able to serve outside users, you have
> to configure the url host and email host as domain names which are
> visible both inside and outside your lan and are routed appropriately.
>
> Yes, but these are not Mailman questions.


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb 15 03:46:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 18:46:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I've built apache, sendmail,
	mailman successfully, how to make them work?
In-Reply-To: <a0e7fcb20602141821n31d75fb6p309e8b75b7a5409f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006021418465003592d75afb9@msapiro>

lovecreatesbeauty <lovecreatesbeauty at gmail.com>
   Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 10:21:27 +0800
     To: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>,
          mailman-users at python.org

>Hello Mark,
>
>I configure the network, and nsloookup result shows the status of the network:
>
>$ nslookup www.google.com
>nslookup is Obsolete. This command may be removed in a future Solaris
>release. Equivalent functionality is provided by nslookup(1m) in
>/usr/sfw/sbin.
>Server:  czar.thbs.cn.com
>Address:  192.168.1.3
>
>Non-authoritative answer:
>Name:    www-china.l.google.com
>Address:  64.233.189.104
>Aliases:  www.google.com, www.l.google.com



I don't know what you think this is showing other than there is a name
server at czar.thbs.cn.com (192.168.1.3) that you can access that has
an address for www-china.l.google.com (alias www.google.com and
www.l.google.com)



>But when I send invitations, following mails still occures.
>
>--- --- --- the 1st mail received by invitee #1 --- --- ---
<snip>
>--- --- --- the 1st mail received by invitee #1 ends --- --- ---
>
>--- --- --- the 2st mail received by invitee #2 --- --- ---
>>From MAILER-DAEMON Wed Feb 15 09:49:49 2006
>Return-Path: <MAILER-DAEMON at joe.com>
>Received: from localhost (localhost)
>=09by joe.com (8.13.1+Sun/8.13.1) id k1F1nmSG000585;
>=09Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:48 +0800 (CST)
>Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:48 +0800 (CST)
>From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON>
>Message-Id: <200602150149.k1F1nmSG000585 at joe.com>
>To: postmaster
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=3Ddelivery-status;
>=09boundary=3D"k1F1nmSG000585.1139968188/joe.com"
>Subject: Postmaster notify: see transcript for details
>Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (postmaster-notification)
>Content-Length: 1534
>
>This is a MIME-encapsulated message
>
>--k1F1nmSG000585.1139968188/joe.com
>
>The original message was received at Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:49:48 +0800 (CST)
>from localhost
>with id k1F1nmSF000585
>
>   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
><jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68>
>    (reason: 553 5.3.5 system config error)
>
>   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>553 5.3.5 192.168.1.68 config error: mail loops back to me (MX problem?)
>554 5.3.5 Local configuration error
>
<snip>
>--- --- --- the 2st mail received by invitee #2 ends --- --- ---
>
>What's wrong with the this configuration? How can I correct it?


It certainly appears there is a loopback issue in attempting to deliver
to <jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68> from outside.

See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-February/049296.html>
where I said

"If you are going to use a lan side IP address as the host_name for the
list, external users will never be able to post to it."

and

"If you want this list to be able to serve outside users, you have to
configure the url host and email host as domain names which are
visible both inside and outside your lan and are routed appropriately."

The Mailman issue here is setting DEFAULT_URL_HOST and
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST appropriately. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.062.htp>
and
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp>
and be sure to take note of running fix_url after changing
DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST.

Anything else is a network and or sendmail issue and is outside the
scope of this list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From darkeye at tyrell.hu  Wed Feb 15 12:11:01 2006
From: darkeye at tyrell.hu (=?UTF-8?B?w4Frb3MgTWFyw7N5?=)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 12:11:01 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UnicodeDecodeError again
Message-ID: <43F30C45.2080706@tyrell.hu>

Hi,

I encountered a problem that was already experienced before:

http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg36841.html

and seems to have been solved already:

http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg36845.html
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1405790&group_id=103&atid=300103


but, unfortunately I still get the same error, even after applying the
patch mentioned above...


I'm running mailman 2.1.7 on gentoo. I get the following in logs/error:


Feb 15 11:59:55 2006 (29196) Uncaught runner exception: 'ascii' codec
can't decode byte 0xfc in position 10: ordinal not in range(128)
Feb 15 11:59:55 2006 (29196) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in
_dispose
    mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 216, in
ArchiveMail
    h.processUnixMailbox(f)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 585, in
processUnixMailbox
    self.add_article(a)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 637, in
add_article
    article.parentID = parentID = self.get_parent_info(arch, article)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 669, in
get_parent_info
    article.subject)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 311,
in getOldestArticle
    self.__openIndices(archive)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 251,
in __openIndices
    t = DumbBTree(os.path.join(arcdir, archive + '-' + i))
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 65,
in __init__
    self.load()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 179,
in load    self.__sort(dirty=1)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 73,
in __sort
    self.sorted.sort()
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xfc in position 10:
ordinal not in range(128)



Akos


From jeppesen at memphys.sdu.dk  Wed Feb 15 12:53:47 2006
From: jeppesen at memphys.sdu.dk (Claus Jeppesen)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 12:53:47 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Same maillist-name in multiple domains.
In-Reply-To: <43F30C45.2080706@tyrell.hu>
References: <43F30C45.2080706@tyrell.hu>
Message-ID: <20060215125347.vd65ko4kw7400kos@imptest.memphys.sdu.dk>


Dear MailMan-Users/Developers,

Excuse me for this posting, but at the SDU (University of Southern Denmark)
we are in the process of porting our mailinglists to Mailman. We are using
exim as the backend MTA for Mailman.

We have (of course, as one could imagine :)) run in to the problem that
multiple departments would like to have the same mailing-list name,
which of course would belong to different domains [i.e.
seminars at dept1.sdu.dk and seminars at dept2.sdu.dk for seminars announcements].

I can see from the TODO list that this is an issue to be solved. I know
I'm pushing my luck ( :) ), but do you have an idea of when Mailman
(natively) will support same $local_part in different $domains.

Thanx,

Claus.

-- 
Claus Jeppesen
Memphys Center, SDU
Campusvej 55
5230 Odense M, Denmark
Ph: +45-65503475 Fax: +45-66158760

----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.



From bgmahesh at gmail.com  Wed Feb 15 13:17:51 2006
From: bgmahesh at gmail.com (BG Mahesh)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 17:47:51 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple domains for Mailman/Sendmail setup
Message-ID: <5227ac5c0602150417mb177b6cve3ec8e4a66be00f4@mail.gmail.com>

hi

Can we have multiple domains [general at list1.org, jobs at company.com] hosted on
the same copy of Mailmain [using sendmail]?
If so, can anyone point me to the documentation?

thanks

--
--
B.G. Mahesh


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Feb 15 13:48:20 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 13:48:20 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple domains for Mailman/Sendmail setup
In-Reply-To: <5227ac5c0602150417mb177b6cve3ec8e4a66be00f4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5227ac5c0602150417mb177b6cve3ec8e4a66be00f4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06200715c018d3827076@[10.0.1.210]>

At 5:47 PM +0530 2006-02-15, BG Mahesh wrote:

>  Can we have multiple domains [general at list1.org, jobs at company.com] hosted on
>  the same copy of Mailmain [using sendmail]?
>  If so, can anyone point me to the documentation?

	Did you search the FAQ Wizard for "virtual"?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Wed Feb 15 14:35:16 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 05:35:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription settings not taking
In-Reply-To: <p06200709c0182671e030@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <PC17402006021413153100319a85709e@msapiro>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0602141330370.2505@titan.lserv.com>
	<p06200709c0182671e030@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0602150519440.17071@titan.lserv.com>

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006, Brad Knowles wrote:

> 	If you're talking about posting to the mailman-users and/or 
> mailman-developers lists from a Gmane hosted newsgroup, then we need 
> to have a talk with them again.

 	Yes. As you doubtless know, they accept nominations from 
anyone, but ask the nominator to refrain except with permission of the 
list; iirc, they used to check, too, but it's been quite a while. They 
do certainly still run a panoply of spam defenses.

> 	IIRC, we asked them to stop mirroring the mailman-* mailing 
> lists a while back, and if they have stealthed back into the system, 
> then we need to look at banning all Gmane addresses from contacting 
> any of the python.org sites through any mechanism.

 	That is of course your choice, and I'm sure you have reasons.

 	One effect will be to drive me, and doubtless some rising 
number of others, as baby boomers retire and get into other 
activities, off your lists. Gmane's great virtue is that it's a lot 
simpler to monitor than trying to cope with list archives; one can 
check occasionally for anything that looks comprehensible, delete the 
rest unread, and gradually acquire enough competence, or at least 
enough vocabulary, to ask what one needs. Having done so, one can flag 
one's own post, and watch for replies.

 	To take the example I know best, one can monitor some 
thirty-odd lists fairly actively, plus two or three times as many ad 
hoc, of which one would not tackle more than two or three by 
subscriptions -- and still do one's own work, and have a life.

 	There is also a compromise, though I have no idea how feasible 
it might be for you: one can run one's one groups on one's own 
newsserver. Examples are opera.no and grc.com (Steve Gibson's outfit, 
which naturally has impressive defenses).

 	And with that I'll stop bothering you. No reply required 
unless you should embrace some less draconian choice. Strength to your 
arms! It's a fine listserver, and of course that comes first.

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, PhD, Neo-Redneck Linux Convert
What do they know of country, who only country know?


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Wed Feb 15 14:37:32 2006
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 08:37:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription settings not taking
In-Reply-To: <p06200709c0182671e030@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <PC17402006021413153100319a85709e@msapiro>	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0602141330370.2505@titan.lserv.com>
	<p06200709c0182671e030@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <43F32E9C.8020207@Media-Brokers.com>

> If you're talking about posting to the mailman-users and/or 
> mailman-developers lists from a Gmane hosted newsgroup, then we need 
> to have a talk with them again.
> 
> IIRC, we asked them to stop mirroring the mailman-* mailing lists 
> a while back, and if they have stealthed back into the system, then 
> we need to look at banning all Gmane addresses from contacting any of 
> the python.org sites through any mechanism.

So, I guess you had your talk, because I just got notified that these 
two gmane lists were no longer available and had to unsubscribe (to 
terminate the notifications).

-- 

Best regards,

Charles


From lukeshannon at hotmail.com  Wed Feb 15 16:05:46 2006
From: lukeshannon at hotmail.com (Luke Shannon)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 15:05:46 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <BAY108-F350E56BE4BC2A0E02B3895A3FA0@phx.gbl>

Hello;

We have a set of mailing list we are currently managing with our own 
application. There are about 90 lists representing 90 vendors. Vendors hold 
events with varying frequency. We give our clients the option to sign up for 
a mailing list(s) informing them of upcoming events.

There is an existing java program which sends outs out the emails 5 days 
before an event.

I would like Mailman to only handle subscribing and unsubscribing of users 
to our 90 lists which are stored in a mySQL DB. The existing program will 
continue send out the mails.

Can this easily be done with Mailman? Will I have to change our database of 
users to a different format?

Thanks,

Luke




From johnslists at mcswartz.org  Wed Feb 15 15:41:02 2006
From: johnslists at mcswartz.org (John Swartzentruber)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:41:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
Message-ID: <43F33D7E.1070805@mcswartz.org>

It appears that the mailman lists have disappeared from GMane. That's a 
bit inconvenient. Are there any other newsgroups that mirror this 
mailing list? I looked around some, but didn't see any. In the meantime, 
I've re-enabled email delivery, but that's not nearly as convenient as 
using newsgroup access for a list like this.


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb 15 17:19:55 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 08:19:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UnicodeDecodeError again
In-Reply-To: <43F30C45.2080706@tyrell.hu>
References: <43F30C45.2080706@tyrell.hu>
Message-ID: <43F354AB.2020709@value.net>

?kos Mar?y wrote:
> 
> I encountered a problem that was already experienced before:
> 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg36841.html
> 
> and seems to have been solved already:
> 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg36845.html
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1405790&group_id=103&atid=300103


It is not the same problem


> but, unfortunately I still get the same error, even after applying the
> patch mentioned above...


which is why the patch didn't fix it.


> I'm running mailman 2.1.7 on gentoo. I get the following in logs/error:
> 
> 
> Feb 15 11:59:55 2006 (29196) Uncaught runner exception: 'ascii' codec
> can't decode byte 0xfc in position 10: ordinal not in range(128)
> Feb 15 11:59:55 2006 (29196) Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
>     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
>     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in
> _dispose
>     mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 216, in
> ArchiveMail
>     h.processUnixMailbox(f)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 585, in
> processUnixMailbox
>     self.add_article(a)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 637, in
> add_article
>     article.parentID = parentID = self.get_parent_info(arch, article)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 669, in
> get_parent_info
>     article.subject)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 311,
> in getOldestArticle
>     self.__openIndices(archive)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 251,
> in __openIndices
>     t = DumbBTree(os.path.join(arcdir, archive + '-' + i))
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 65,
> in __init__
>     self.load()
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 179,
> in load    self.__sort(dirty=1)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 73,
> in __sort
>     self.sorted.sort()
> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xfc in position 10:
> ordinal not in range(128)


This is a different error from the one referenced above. It appears that 
one of your archives/private/<list>/database/* files may be corrupt.

Have you changed the language of the list recently?

Did this just happen once or is it happening with all posts to the list?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From darkeye at tyrell.hu  Wed Feb 15 17:25:15 2006
From: darkeye at tyrell.hu (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C1kos_Mar=F3y?=)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 17:25:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UnicodeDecodeError again
In-Reply-To: <43F354AB.2020709@value.net>
References: <43F30C45.2080706@tyrell.hu> <43F354AB.2020709@value.net>
Message-ID: <43F355EB.90704@tyrell.hu>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> It is not the same problem

I see... looked similar :)

> This is a different error from the one referenced above. It appears that
> one of your archives/private/<list>/database/* files may be corrupt.

sad to hear :( is there a way to tell which one, and maybe correct it?

> Have you changed the language of the list recently?

no, not recently.

> Did this just happen once or is it happening with all posts to the list?

all posts, so it seems. the effect is that it will not put new entries
into the archive, sometimes overwrites the last entry of the archive
with the 'new last entry'.

this issue came up as I migrated to a new system. I also have several
lists, but the problem only came up with one of them.


Akos



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb 15 17:39:35 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 08:39:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UnicodeDecodeError again
In-Reply-To: <43F355EB.90704@tyrell.hu>
Message-ID: <PC174020060215083935053119e20a16@msapiro>

?kos Mar?y wrote:
>
>sad to hear :( is there a way to tell which one, and maybe correct it?


I think you need to run

bin/arch --wipe <list>

to rebuild the archive for the list. Then you need to see if the recent
posts are in the shunt queue (qfiles/shunt). If they are there and
also in the rebuilt archive (which I'm sure they will be), then just
delete them from the shunt queue. Otherwise, you can run bin/unshunt
to reprocess them, but don't do this if they are already in the
rebuilt archive because that will cause duplicates.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From wytygr_99 at yahoo.com  Wed Feb 15 17:49:01 2006
From: wytygr_99 at yahoo.com (troy kern)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 08:49:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] emails being sent to moderators
Message-ID: <20060215164901.64512.qmail@web54607.mail.yahoo.com>

For some reason mailman is not sending emails to
moderators for pending requests. I have fought this
for about a week and can not get it to work. Any ideas
as to what could be causing the issue?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From darkeye at tyrell.hu  Wed Feb 15 18:13:08 2006
From: darkeye at tyrell.hu (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=C1kos_Mar=F3y?=)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:13:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UnicodeDecodeError again
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060215083935053119e20a16@msapiro>
References: <PC174020060215083935053119e20a16@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43F36124.8050309@tyrell.hu>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> ?kos Mar?y wrote:
>> sad to hear :( is there a way to tell which one, and maybe correct it?
> 
> 
> I think you need to run
> 
> bin/arch --wipe <list>
> 
> to rebuild the archive for the list. Then you need to see if the recent
> posts are in the shunt queue (qfiles/shunt). If they are there and

thanks! it seems to be OK now..


Akos



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Feb 15 18:18:32 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:18:32 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription settings not taking
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0602150519440.17071@titan.lserv.com>
References: <PC17402006021413153100319a85709e@msapiro>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0602141330370.2505@titan.lserv.com>
	<p06200709c0182671e030@[10.0.1.210]>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0602150519440.17071@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <p06200717c0190e3a33dd@[10.0.1.210]>

At 5:35 AM -0800 2006-02-15, Beartooth wrote:

>   	Yes. As you doubtless know, they accept nominations from
>  anyone, but ask the nominator to refrain except with permission of the
>  list; iirc, they used to check, too, but it's been quite a while.

	Therein lies the problem.  Whomever nominated these mailing lists 
didn't get our permission, and Gmane didn't check.  We've had this 
problem in the past.

	In my book, they're skating the thin edge of being a spamming 
operation themselves, or at least being a spam facilitator.  However, 
we (the postmasters of python.org) acknowledge that not everyone will 
feel the same way about them, and we allow each of the sets of owners 
of each list to set their own policies with regards to Gmane.

	In this case, I am part of the python.org postmaster team, as 
well as one of the list owners of the mailman-users and 
mailman-developers lists (among others).

>                                                                     They
>  do certainly still run a panoply of spam defenses.

	I'm not so concerned about the defenses that they may (or may 
not) have in place today, I'm more concerned about whether or not 
they have followed the appropriate procedures and checked with the 
appropriate people, before setting up their gateway service.

	As we know, once something is in place, it's easy for people to 
change their policies with regards to what they do with what they now 
have.  And once things escape, it's really hard to put that genie 
back in the bottle.

>   	One effect will be to drive me, and doubtless some rising
>  number of others, as baby boomers retire and get into other
>  activities, off your lists. Gmane's great virtue is that it's a lot
>  simpler to monitor than trying to cope with list archives; one can
>  check occasionally for anything that looks comprehensible, delete the
>  rest unread, and gradually acquire enough competence, or at least
>  enough vocabulary, to ask what one needs. Having done so, one can flag
>  one's own post, and watch for replies.

	I've been using USENET news for about twenty years, and 
administering it for nearly ten years.  I've been using Internet 
e-mail and mailing lists for about twenty years, and I've been 
administering Internet e-mail and mailing lists for about fifteen 
years -- including what were, at the time, some of the world's 
largest mailing lists at AOL, using the L-Soft ListServ software.

	I know the differences and the advantages, and I personally don't 
see much value in gatewaying a mailing list like this to USENET. 
There are other Python-related mailing lists which have been 
gatewayed to USENET for many years, and I'm glad to continue to 
support that.  But I don't personally see much value in it -- hardly 
anyone on the Internet knows what USENET news is, and when you say 
"news" to them, they think Google News, or somesuch.


	One critical problem with USENET news is that stuff expires off 
the server, and you miss messages that are no longer stored locally. 
Then there are cancel and posting storms, which frequently amounts to 
a DoS attack on the entire USENET network.  And very few USENET news 
clients are any good at handling large volumes of traffic.

	An e-mail archive doesn't have any of these problems.

>   	And with that I'll stop bothering you. No reply required
>  unless you should embrace some less draconian choice. Strength to your
>  arms! It's a fine listserver, and of course that comes first.

	I'll talk to Barry and the other python.org 
postmasters/listowners of these mailing lists, and see if I am 
mis-remembering things, and whether or not we want to ban Gmane from 
gatewaying any of our lists.

	I know what my own personal views are, but if they conflict with 
Barry's views or the views of the other postmasters/listowners, then 
I'm fine with following whatever the consensus policy is.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Feb 15 18:19:48 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:19:48 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription settings not taking
In-Reply-To: <43F32E9C.8020207@Media-Brokers.com>
References: <PC17402006021413153100319a85709e@msapiro>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0602141330370.2505@titan.lserv.com>
	<p06200709c0182671e030@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43F32E9C.8020207@Media-Brokers.com>
Message-ID: <p06200718c01912ef4e3d@[10.0.1.210]>

At 8:37 AM -0500 2006-02-15, Charles Marcus wrote:

>>  IIRC, we asked them to stop mirroring the mailman-* mailing lists
>>  a while back, and if they have stealthed back into the system, then
>>  we need to look at banning all Gmane addresses from contacting any of
>>  the python.org sites through any mechanism.
>
>  So, I guess you had your talk, because I just got notified that these
>  two gmane lists were no longer available and had to unsubscribe (to
>  terminate the notifications).

	No, I haven't talked to them yet.  This might be a coincidence, 
or maybe someone else reported this thread to the folks at Gmane.

	I still have yet to talk to Barry and the other 
postmasters/listowners to find out what the consensus policy is. 
Whatver that policy is decided to be, that is what we will implement 
-- my personal feelings aside.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Feb 15 18:21:08 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:21:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
In-Reply-To: <43F33D7E.1070805@mcswartz.org>
References: <43F33D7E.1070805@mcswartz.org>
Message-ID: <p06200719c019133b6002@[10.0.1.210]>

At 9:41 AM -0500 2006-02-15, John Swartzentruber wrote:

>  It appears that the mailman lists have disappeared from GMane. That's a
>  bit inconvenient. Are there any other newsgroups that mirror this
>  mailing list? I looked around some, but didn't see any.

	I'm not aware of any.  Moreover, if there are such gateways, we 
would work actively to shut them down for the same reasons that we 
wish to prevent Gmane from gatewaying them.

	But I still have to have my official talk with Barry and the 
other postmasters/listowners to see what we want our consensus policy 
to be.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Feb 15 18:21:57 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:21:57 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <BAY108-F350E56BE4BC2A0E02B3895A3FA0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY108-F350E56BE4BC2A0E02B3895A3FA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <p0620071ac01913a177f6@[10.0.1.210]>

At 3:05 PM +0000 2006-02-15, Luke Shannon wrote:

>  I would like Mailman to only handle subscribing and unsubscribing of users
>  to our 90 lists which are stored in a mySQL DB. The existing program will
>  continue send out the mails.
>
>  Can this easily be done with Mailman? Will I have to change our database of
>  users to a different format?

	Search the Mailman FAQ Wizard for "CRM".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Feb 15 18:57:24 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:57:24 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
In-Reply-To: <87fymky0pc.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
References: <43F33D7E.1070805@mcswartz.org>
	<p06200719c019133b6002@[10.0.1.210]>
	<87fymky0pc.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
Message-ID: <p0620071dc0191b764dc8@[10.0.1.210]>

At 12:46 PM -0500 2006-02-15, John A. Martin wrote:

>      Brad> 	But I still have to have my official talk with Barry
>      Brad> 	and the other postmasters/listowners to see what we
>      Brad> 	want our consensus policy to be.
>
>  Do you care what your subscribers prefer?

	Yes.  We also care that others having their own gateways will be 
doing things that are out of our control, and may cause much more 
damage to the mailing list and all mailing list recipients, than the 
few who might potentially be served by a properly run gateway.

	We have to balance the potential risk against the potential 
benefit, both with the current operators and their operations, and 
with any potential future operators and their operations.


	This is a potentially slippery slope here, and we need to make 
sure of our footing.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 15 20:28:44 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 13:28:44 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] emails being sent to moderators
In-Reply-To: <20060215164901.64512.qmail@web54607.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060215164901.64512.qmail@web54607.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602151128h47b41ee0odf35bb619b12522e@mail.gmail.com>

Probably a dumb question, but can you report the values of
admin_immed_notify (I think this is [one of] the applicable
setting[s]?)

Also, maybe tail your mail server's logs and mailman's logs and see if
you can trace what's happening when you send a message that gets
moderated.

On 2/15/06, troy kern <wytygr_99 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> For some reason mailman is not sending emails to
> moderators for pending requests. I have fought this
> for about a week and can not get it to work. Any ideas
> as to what could be causing the issue?
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pdbogen%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
>


--
- Patrick Bogen


From mfatihakbulut at gmail.com  Wed Feb 15 20:49:34 2006
From: mfatihakbulut at gmail.com (Mehmet Fatih AKBULUT)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 21:49:34 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to delete lists ?
Message-ID: <eed667140602151149g608aa888pc8b369926c2fe012@mail.gmail.com>

hi all,
how can i delete a mailing list ?
is it possible to delete from administrative interface ? [couldnt see
a delete option ???]
or there's something that i dont know ?
help please....


From trenaryn at crlibrary.org  Wed Feb 15 21:11:26 2006
From: trenaryn at crlibrary.org (Nick Trenary)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 14:11:26 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Remove banned poster
Message-ID: <43F38AEE.3090600@crlibrary.org>

I have a list in which a frequent poster (who is not a member of the 
list) somehow has been banned from posting.  I need to restore his 
ability to post.  Can someone point me in the right direction?  Using 
2.1.7 on Mac OS X.

Thanks,
Nick

-- 
Nick Trenary
Computer Information Systems Analyst
Cedar Rapids Public Library
Office: 319.398.5145 x267
Cell: 319.310.7699




From kevin.mcnamee at symsoft.se  Wed Feb 15 21:39:38 2006
From: kevin.mcnamee at symsoft.se (Kevin McNamee)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 21:39:38 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to delete lists ?
In-Reply-To: <eed667140602151149g608aa888pc8b369926c2fe012@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200602152039.k1FKddmY014938@my.symsoft.se>

Type:
> bin/rmlist
to get the options

Don't think it is possible to delete a list from the GUI.

/Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+kevin.mcnamee=symsoft.se at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+kevin.mcnamee=symsoft.se at python.org] On Behalf
Of Mehmet Fatih AKBULUT
Sent: 15 February 2006 20:50
To: Mailman-Users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to delete lists ?

hi all,
how can i delete a mailing list ?
is it possible to delete from administrative interface ? [couldnt see
a delete option ???]
or there's something that i dont know ?
help please....
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/kevin.mcnamee%40symsoft
.se

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp




From dhphllps at memphis.edu  Wed Feb 15 21:46:05 2006
From: dhphllps at memphis.edu (dhphllps at memphis.edu)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 14:46:05 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to delete lists ?
Message-ID: <33799680F7675F42BFB862695FF2C9530298487F@UMMAILV1.uom.memphis.edu>

It is if "OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = yes" is set in mm_cfg.py.
If this is set, it appears on the general options page.


==============================================
Dan Phillips
Associate Professor
Rudi E. Scheidt School of Music
University of Memphis 

|-----Original Message-----
|
|Type:
|> bin/rmlist
|to get the options
|
|Don't think it is possible to delete a list from the GUI.
|
|/Kevin
|
|
|hi all,
|how can i delete a mailing list ?
|is it possible to delete from administrative interface ? 
|[couldnt see a delete option ???] or there's something that i 
|dont know ? help please....
|------------------------------------------------------


From trenaryn at crlibrary.org  Wed Feb 15 22:09:44 2006
From: trenaryn at crlibrary.org (Nick Trenary)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 15:09:44 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Remove banned poster
In-Reply-To: <5A945598-8473-4C3F-A98D-36B3E93FE448@pitt.edu>
References: <43F38AEE.3090600@crlibrary.org>
	<5A945598-8473-4C3F-A98D-36B3E93FE448@pitt.edu>
Message-ID: <43F39898.3070703@crlibrary.org>

Thomas Waters wrote:

> Use the Web UI for Mailman.
> Go to Privacy Options.
> Remove him from the banned list.
>
>
> On Feb 15, 2006, at 3:11 PM, Nick Trenary wrote:
>
>> I have a list in which a frequent poster (who is not a member of the
>> list) somehow has been banned from posting.  I need to restore his
>> ability to post.  Can someone point me in the right direction?  Using
>> 2.1.7 on Mac OS X.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Nick
>>
>> -- 
>> Nick Trenary
>> Computer Information Systems Analyst
>> Cedar Rapids Public Library
>> Office: 319.398.5145 x267
>> Cell: 319.310.7699
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Thomas Waters
> Director of Information and Communication Services
> University of Pittsburgh School of Pharmacy
> 412-383-7471
> waterstc at pitt.edu
> http://www.pharmacy.pitt.edu
>
>
>
That will not work.  That will only ban a user from becoming a member.  
I have a user who is not a member of a list but still needs to post to 
the list.  I need to figure out how to remove his ban.




From dhphllps at memphis.edu  Wed Feb 15 22:15:09 2006
From: dhphllps at memphis.edu (dhphllps at memphis.edu)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 15:15:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Remove banned poster
Message-ID: <33799680F7675F42BFB862695FF2C9530298490F@UMMAILV1.uom.memphis.edu>

|-----Original Message-----
|Thomas Waters wrote:
|
|> Use the Web UI for Mailman.
|> Go to Privacy Options.
|> Remove him from the banned list.
|>
|>
|>
|That will not work.  That will only ban a user from becoming a 
|member.  
|I have a user who is not a member of a list but still needs to post to 
|the list.  I need to figure out how to remove his ban.
|
|


Go one step further into the privacy options, sender filters, and look
for his address in one of those lists and/or add it to the approved
poster list.


==============================================
Dan Phillips
Associate Professor
Rudi E. Scheidt School of Music
University of Memphis 


From trenaryn at crlibrary.org  Wed Feb 15 22:28:34 2006
From: trenaryn at crlibrary.org (Nick Trenary)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 15:28:34 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Remove banned poster
In-Reply-To: <33799680F7675F42BFB862695FF2C9530298490F@UMMAILV1.uom.memphis.edu>
References: <33799680F7675F42BFB862695FF2C9530298490F@UMMAILV1.uom.memphis.edu>
Message-ID: <43F39D02.3030901@crlibrary.org>

dhphllps at memphis.edu wrote:

>|-----Original Message-----
>|Thomas Waters wrote:
>|
>|> Use the Web UI for Mailman.
>|> Go to Privacy Options.
>|> Remove him from the banned list.
>|>
>|>
>|>
>|That will not work.  That will only ban a user from becoming a 
>|member.  
>|I have a user who is not a member of a list but still needs to post to 
>|the list.  I need to figure out how to remove his ban.
>|
>|
>
>
>Go one step further into the privacy options, sender filters, and look
>for his address in one of those lists and/or add it to the approved
>poster list.
>
>
>==============================================
>Dan Phillips
>Associate Professor
>Rudi E. Scheidt School of Music
>University of Memphis 
>
>  
>
That did it. 

Thanks,
Nick




From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Wed Feb 15 23:08:03 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 14:08:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription settings not taking
In-Reply-To: <p06200717c0190e3a33dd@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <PC17402006021413153100319a85709e@msapiro>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0602141330370.2505@titan.lserv.com>
	<p06200709c0182671e030@[10.0.1.210]>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0602150519440.17071@titan.lserv.com>
	<p06200717c0190e3a33dd@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0602151403530.27829@titan.lserv.com>

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006, Brad Knowles wrote:

>>   	One effect will be to drive me, and doubtless some rising
>>  number of others, as baby boomers retire and get into other
>>  activities, off your lists. Gmane's great virtue is that it's a lot
>>  simpler to monitor than trying to cope with list archives; one can
>>  check occasionally for anything that looks comprehensible, delete the
>>  rest unread, and gradually acquire enough competence, or at least
>>  enough vocabulary, to ask what one needs. Having done so, one can flag
>>  one's own post, and watch for replies.
>
> 	I've been using USENET news for about twenty years, and 
> administering it for nearly ten years.  I've been using Internet 
> e-mail and mailing lists for about twenty years, and I've been 
> administering Internet e-mail and mailing lists for about fifteen 
> years -- including what were, at the time, some of the world's 
> largest mailing lists at AOL, using the L-Soft ListServ software.
>
> 	I know the differences and the advantages, and I personally 
> don't see much value in gatewaying a mailing list like this to 
> USENET. There are other Python-related mailing lists which have been 
> gatewayed to USENET for many years, and I'm glad to continue to 
> support that.  But I don't personally see much value in it -- hardly 
> anyone on the Internet knows what USENET news is, and when you say 
> "news" to them, they think Google News, or somesuch.

 	I hope it didn't sound like I was trying to teach you to suck 
eggs. In my last job, it turned out often that precisely the Alpha 
Plus Technoids were glad to hear an articulate description of what 
things looked like to the UNinitiated, whose thoughts they had gotten 
far beyond; so I got in the habit of doing that. No offense intended 
-- just the opposite.

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, PhD, Neo-Redneck Linux Convert
What do they know of country, who only country know?


From jam at jamux.com  Wed Feb 15 17:24:33 2006
From: jam at jamux.com (John A. Martin)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 11:24:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
In-Reply-To: <43F33D7E.1070805@mcswartz.org> (John Swartzentruber's message of
	"Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:41:02 -0500")
References: <43F33D7E.1070805@mcswartz.org>
Message-ID: <87psloy4hq.fsf@athene.jamux.com>

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From chris at westnet.com  Wed Feb 15 23:53:37 2006
From: chris at westnet.com (Christopher X. Candreva)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 17:53:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
In-Reply-To: <87psloy4hq.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
References: <43F33D7E.1070805@mcswartz.org> <87psloy4hq.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0602151751490.5360@westnet.com>

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006, John A. Martin wrote:

> Not only is this list, Mailman-Users, but also Mailman-Announce and
> Mailman-Developers appear to have simultaneously disappeared from
> Gmane.  Is there someone who doesn't like Gmane?  If so, please
> explain your objections.  Many lists use Gmane with satisfaction.  Why
> should the Mailman lists be different?

Actually you are answering your own question. This was discussed on the list 
BEFORE they were removed. However since you were reading via newsgroups -- 
you missed it.

I always wondered how people could possibly post a question that had been 
beated to death on a list all day, and I'm starting to think newsgroup 
reading mode is the reason.


==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/


From jam at jamux.com  Wed Feb 15 18:46:23 2006
From: jam at jamux.com (John A. Martin)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 12:46:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
In-Reply-To: <p06200719c019133b6002@[10.0.1.210]> (Brad Knowles's message of
	"Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:21:08 +0100")
References: <43F33D7E.1070805@mcswartz.org>
	<p06200719c019133b6002@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <87d5hout7p.fsf@athene.jamux.com>

>>>>> "Brad" == Brad Knowles
>>>>> "Re: [Mailman-Users] GMane?"
>>>>>  Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:21:08 +0100

    Brad> At 9:41 AM -0500 2006-02-15, John Swartzentruber wrote:
    >> It appears that the mailman lists have disappeared from
    >> GMane. That's a bit inconvenient. Are there any other
    >> newsgroups that mirror this mailing list? I looked around some,
    >> but didn't see any.

    Brad> 	I'm not aware of any.  Moreover, if there are such
    Brad> 	gateways, we would work actively to shut them down for
    Brad> 	the same reasons that we wish to prevent Gmane from
    Brad> 	gatewaying them. 

And why is that?

    Brad> 	But I still have to have my official talk with Barry
    Brad> 	and the other postmasters/listowners to see what we
    Brad> 	want our consensus policy to be.

Do you care what your subscribers prefer?

        jam

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From dave at dpss.bz  Thu Feb 16 00:05:56 2006
From: dave at dpss.bz (Dave B)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 17:05:56 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to delete lists ?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6612.1140044023.27774.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.6612.1140044023.27774.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <967abf79f3c08c33737dcb78b0fbc826@dpss.bz>

use the rmlist command line option. use -a option to delete archives as 
well.

rmlist -a listname

On Feb 15, 2006, at 4:53 PM, mailman-users-request at python.org wrote:

> From: Mehmet Fatih AKBULUT <mfatihakbulut at gmail.com>
> Date: February 15, 2006 1:49:34 PM CST
> To: Mailman-Users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to delete lists ?
>
>
> hi all,
> how can i delete a mailing list ?
> is it possible to delete from administrative interface ? [couldnt see
> a delete option ???]
> or there's something that i dont know ?
> help please....
>



From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Thu Feb 16 01:30:39 2006
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 13:30:39 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to delete lists ?
Message-ID: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A3736A527@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

The other option is to get webmin with a mailman plugin, this makes
creating a list extreamely easy, and also deleting them....bit
dangerous....

Regards

Thing

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+steven.jones=vuw.ac.nz at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+steven.jones=vuw.ac.nz at python.org] On
Behalf Of Dave B
Sent: Thursday, 16 February 2006 12:06 p.m.
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] how to delete lists ?

use the rmlist command line option. use -a option to delete archives as 
well.

rmlist -a listname

On Feb 15, 2006, at 4:53 PM, mailman-users-request at python.org wrote:

> From: Mehmet Fatih AKBULUT <mfatihakbulut at gmail.com>
> Date: February 15, 2006 1:49:34 PM CST
> To: Mailman-Users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to delete lists ?
>
>
> hi all,
> how can i delete a mailing list ?
> is it possible to delete from administrative interface ? [couldnt see
> a delete option ???]
> or there's something that i dont know ?
> help please....
>

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/steven.jones%40vuw.
ac.nz

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From carbonnb at gmail.com  Thu Feb 16 02:03:16 2006
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 20:03:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to delete lists ?
In-Reply-To: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A3736A527@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A3736A527@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <e04a6c920602151703s4dcd3f56s@mail.gmail.com>

On 15/02/06, Steven Jones <Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz> wrote:
> The other option is to get webmin with a mailman plugin, this makes
> creating a list extreamely easy, and also deleting them....bit
> dangerous....

Be careful with the Webmin plugin for Mailman. There is one that will
not only delete your list(s) but it will also delete *ALL* your
Sendmail aliases.

That only took me 2 days to figure out :(

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Feb 16 02:32:20 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 02:32:20 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription settings not taking
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0602151403530.27829@titan.lserv.com>
References: <PC17402006021413153100319a85709e@msapiro>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0602141330370.2505@titan.lserv.com>
	<p06200709c0182671e030@[10.0.1.210]>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0602150519440.17071@titan.lserv.com>
	<p06200717c0190e3a33dd@[10.0.1.210]>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0602151403530.27829@titan.lserv.com>
Message-ID: <p06200722c01985d13b51@[10.0.1.210]>

At 2:08 PM -0800 2006-02-15, Beartooth wrote:

>   	I hope it didn't sound like I was trying to teach you to suck
>  eggs.

	No, I didn't take any offense at what you had said.  I was trying 
to explain my personal perspective and the issues I felt needed to be 
balanced, but I was also trying to explain that although I might feel 
this way that I will comply and implement whatever the official 
policy is determined to be.

	I think I remember what that official policy is, but I will check 
to make sure.

>         In my last job, it turned out often that precisely the Alpha
>  Plus Technoids were glad to hear an articulate description of what
>  things looked like to the UNinitiated, whose thoughts they had gotten
>  far beyond; so I got in the habit of doing that.

	It's been twenty years since I was on that side of the fence. 
You are right that it is good to be occasionally reminded of what 
that's like.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From karhunhammas at Lserv.com  Thu Feb 16 02:57:55 2006
From: karhunhammas at Lserv.com (Beartooth)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 17:57:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscription settings not taking
In-Reply-To: <p06200722c01985d13b51@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <PC17402006021413153100319a85709e@msapiro>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0602141330370.2505@titan.lserv.com>
	<p06200709c0182671e030@[10.0.1.210]>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0602150519440.17071@titan.lserv.com>
	<p06200717c0190e3a33dd@[10.0.1.210]>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0602151403530.27829@titan.lserv.com>
	<p06200722c01985d13b51@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0602151753050.8433@titan.lserv.com>

On Thu, 16 Feb 2006, Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 2:08 PM -0800 2006-02-15, Beartooth wrote:
>
>>   	I hope it didn't sound like I was trying to teach you to suck
>>  eggs.
>
> 	No, I didn't take any offense at what you had said.  I was 
> trying to explain my personal perspective and the issues I felt 
> needed to be balanced, but I was also trying to explain that 
> although I might feel this way that I will comply and implement 
> whatever the official policy is determined to be.
>
> 	I think I remember what that official policy is, but I will 
> check to make sure.

 	Understood.

>>      In my last job, it turned out often that precisely the Alpha 
>> Plus Technoids were glad to hear an articulate description of what 
>> things looked like to the UNinitiated, whose thoughts they had 
>> gotten far beyond; so I got in the habit of doing that.
>
> 	It's been twenty years since I was on that side of the fence. 
> You are right that it is good to be occasionally reminded of what 
> that's like.

 	I can't do much for the cause, so I try to do what I can. I 
hope it helps sometimes.

> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little 
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

>    -- Benjamin Franklin

 	We also agree in admiring that sentiment, btw. And its author, 
of whom I think I heard there's a new biography out ...

-- 
Beartooth Staffwright, PhD, Neo-Redneck Linux Convert
What do they know of country, who only country know?


From jam at jamux.com  Thu Feb 16 04:06:10 2006
From: jam at jamux.com (John A. Martin)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 22:06:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0602151751490.5360@westnet.com> (Christopher
	X. Candreva's message of "Wed, 15 Feb 2006 17:53:37 -0500 (EST)")
References: <43F33D7E.1070805@mcswartz.org> <87psloy4hq.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0602151751490.5360@westnet.com>
Message-ID: <878xscroil.fsf@athene.jamux.com>

>>>>> "CC" == Christopher X Candreva
>>>>> "Re: [Mailman-Users] GMane?"
>>>>>  Wed, 15 Feb 2006 17:53:37 -0500 (EST)

    CC> On Wed, 15 Feb 2006, John A. Martin wrote:
    >> Not only is this list, Mailman-Users, but also Mailman-Announce
    >> and Mailman-Developers appear to have simultaneously
    >> disappeared from Gmane.  Is there someone who doesn't like
    >> Gmane?  If so, please explain your objections.  Many lists use
    >> Gmane with satisfaction.  Why should the Mailman lists be
    >> different?

    CC> Actually you are answering your own question. This was
    CC> discussed on the list BEFORE they were removed. However since
    CC> you were reading via newsgroups -- you missed it.

No. I read mailing lists and News the same.  I read selectively based
primarily upon the Subject.  I noticed nothing in recent Subjects that
suggested to me that action to block this list from Gmane was being
discussed.

I have read many mailing lists as newsgroups on Gmane for several
years and have been unaware of missing anything substantial from a
subscribed list.

    CC> I always wondered how people could possibly post a question
    CC> that had been beated to death on a list all day, and I'm
    CC> starting to think newsgroup reading mode is the reason.

Lay it perhaps instead to the disappearance of the conveniently
searchable Gmane archive.

A couple of days ago I noticed that the Mailman lists had disappeared
From my display of Gmane groups.  I did not react immediately thinking
this might be corrected.  After I discovered that the Mailman lists
had apparently disappeared from Gmane I looked in the most recent
python.org/pipermail archive and saw the article

        John Swartzentruber
        "[Mailman-Users] GMane?"
        Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:41:02 -0500

to which I responded, having noted the absence of a 'Re:' in the
subject indicating that it was the start of a thread.  In the absence
of other articles on the subject of 'Gmane' in the same archive back a
couple of weeks about an event of recent days, I believe my response
to that article was appropriate.

After seeing your criticism I looked at the python.org/pipermail
archive of this list for January and February (to date) and used my
browser to search those two pages for 'gmane' and for 'news'.  The
only thing I found was a thread of three articles starting at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-February/049127.html>
discussing an issue that I take te be involved with Mailman's News
gateway which has nothing to do with a mailing list subscribed to
Gmane using the facilities at the Gmane web site.

Please consider the likelihood that searching the Gmane archive, were
it available, would have searched the entire articles in the archive
and I would likely have seen at the outset where the question had been
beaten to death all day.

Absent a searchable archive, would you like to give a pointer for
someone that does not read every article every day in every group to
which he is subscribed?

        jam



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From jam at jamux.com  Thu Feb 16 04:07:01 2006
From: jam at jamux.com (John A. Martin)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 22:07:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
In-Reply-To: <p0620071dc0191b764dc8@[10.0.1.210]> (Brad Knowles's message of
	"Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:57:24 +0100")
References: <43F33D7E.1070805@mcswartz.org>
	<p06200719c019133b6002@[10.0.1.210]> <87fymky0pc.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<p0620071dc0191b764dc8@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <877j7wroh6.fsf@athene.jamux.com>

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From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Thu Feb 16 04:24:20 2006
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 16:24:20 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] footers in mailman
Message-ID: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A3736A57F@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Hi,

I am having difficulty in settings footers in mailman. The mailman-users
list here attaches a footer and Outlook displays it correctly, however
my own list mail appears as an attachment, so I assume I am missing a
setting? Searching the archives suggests it is an Exchnage problem but
if one list is OK, then the other should be as well....

Regards

Steven


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Feb 16 04:27:41 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 04:27:41 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
In-Reply-To: <878xscroil.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
References: <43F33D7E.1070805@mcswartz.org> <87psloy4hq.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0602151751490.5360@westnet.com>
	<878xscroil.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
Message-ID: <p06200723c019a14bab0f@[10.0.1.210]>

At 10:06 PM -0500 2006-02-15, John A. Martin wrote:

>  Absent a searchable archive, would you like to give a pointer for
>  someone that does not read every article every day in every group to
>  which he is subscribed?

	We've had an official searchable archive for many years.  It is 
one of the many things that is discussed in the Mailman FAQ Wizard. 
Please try checking the Mailman FAQ Wizard before accusing us of not 
providing some sort of functionality that you find to be critical.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Feb 16 04:29:55 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 04:29:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
In-Reply-To: <877j7wroh6.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
References: <43F33D7E.1070805@mcswartz.org>
	<p06200719c019133b6002@[10.0.1.210]>
	<87fymky0pc.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<p0620071dc0191b764dc8@[10.0.1.210]>
	<877j7wroh6.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
Message-ID: <p06200724c019a1b3c36c@[10.0.1.210]>

At 10:07 PM -0500 2006-02-15, John A. Martin wrote:

>  Heaven forfend!  What harm will Gmane do.  Why does doing Gmane mean
>  doing others?  What do you fear from others that would follow from
>  doing Gmane.

	Well, the fact that these mailing lists were gatewayed to Gmane 
without the nominator getting our approval, and without Gmane 
confirming that this was an approved action, is pretty clear evidence 
to me that they don't bother to follow their own rules regarding the 
intellectual property of others.

	The fact that they personally promised me that this problem had 
been fixed after the last time I dealt with them, and yet we find 
that this has happened yet once again, is simply more fuel for the 
fire.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From lists05 at equinephotoart.com  Thu Feb 16 05:45:44 2006
From: lists05 at equinephotoart.com (JC Dill)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 20:45:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
In-Reply-To: <p06200724c019a1b3c36c@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <43F33D7E.1070805@mcswartz.org>	<p06200719c019133b6002@[10.0.1.210]>	<87fymky0pc.fsf@athene.jamux.com>	<p0620071dc0191b764dc8@[10.0.1.210]>	<877j7wroh6.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<p06200724c019a1b3c36c@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <43F40378.1050309@equinephotoart.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 10:07 PM -0500 2006-02-15, John A. Martin wrote:
> 
>>  Heaven forfend!  What harm will Gmane do.  Why does doing Gmane mean
>>  doing others?  What do you fear from others that would follow from
>>  doing Gmane.
> 
> 	Well, the fact that these mailing lists were gatewayed to Gmane 
> without the nominator getting our approval, and without Gmane 
> confirming that this was an approved action, is pretty clear evidence 
> to me that they don't bother to follow their own rules regarding the 
> intellectual property of others.
> 
> 	The fact that they personally promised me that this problem had 
> been fixed after the last time I dealt with them, and yet we find 
> that this has happened yet once again, is simply more fuel for the 
> fire.

As one of the other admins for the mailman-users list, I just want to 
strongly echo Brad's position above.

When we first asked Gmane to not gateway this list, one of the issues 
was that while our own archives munge the email address of list posters, 
the Gmane feed didn't do any munging.  Instead Gmane leaked otherwise 
"virgin" email addresses out where they could (and were) scraped by 
spiders and subsequently sent spam.  (Which is how I discovered that 
Gmane was gatewaying the list, when a freshly created email address 
started receiving spam very shortly after I started using it to post to 
mailman-users.)  Taken together (gatewaying the list without permission, 
and exposing the email addresses to spammers) we were not very happy 
with Gmane's actions.

So it's not that we are capriciously being "mean" to Gmane (and Gmane 
users) here.  Gmane has earned our distrust.

jc




From sfeng at stanford.edu  Thu Feb 16 07:22:36 2006
From: sfeng at stanford.edu (Xueshan Feng)
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 22:22:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error log -  Failed before cPickle:
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006021119242107343c42bcb3@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006021119242107343c42bcb3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <b3706ec5dddeeb9262a9ef02e5b9bdc2@stanford.edu>


On Feb 11, 2006, at 7:24 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>> Susan Feng wrote:
>>>
>>> I noticed the following messages in mailman error log every time  
>>> when a
>>> list is accessed, for example:
>>>
>>> /usr/local/mailman/lists/email-team/ 
>>> config.pck.tmp.mailman.Stanford.EDU.13813
>>> Feb 09 09:49:38 2006 (13810) Failed before cPickle:
>>> /usr/local/mailman/lists/email-team/ 
>>> config.pck.tmp.mailman.Stanford.EDU.13810
>>> Feb 09 09:50:38 2006 (13813) Failed before cPickle:
>
>
> The more I look at this, the more it looks like a 'debugging' entry
> that someone may have added in the definition of __save() in your
> version of Mailman/MailList.py. Even if that is the case, that still
> leaves the questions "what is the exact circumstance the causes it?"
> and "who put it there and why?".

Ah, the culprit is me.  I put a line of debugging in the "try:" block  
some months ago when I added Stanford Webauth code to mailman.
That line of debugging was called every time when __save is called. It  
appears useless now, but I could not remember why I put it there in  
first place.

I removed that line, all look good. I felt better.

Thanks a lot!

Susan
--


>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>



From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Feb 16 07:56:46 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 15:56:46 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
In-Reply-To: <878xscroil.fsf@athene.jamux.com> (John A. Martin's message of
	"Wed, 15 Feb 2006 22:06:10 -0500")
References: <43F33D7E.1070805@mcswartz.org> <87psloy4hq.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0602151751490.5360@westnet.com>
	<878xscroil.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
Message-ID: <87d5hnyeoh.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "jam" == John A Martin <jam at jamux.com> writes:

    jam> I have read many mailing lists as newsgroups on Gmane for
    jam> several years and have been unaware of missing anything
    jam> substantial from a subscribed list.

You may not be missing anything, but I missed at least one of your
posts, receiving Brad's reply to it almost 24 hours in advance of your
post.  Even today this is common for netnews.

    CC> I always wondered how people could possibly post a question
    CC> that had been beated to death on a list all day, and I'm
    CC> starting to think newsgroup reading mode is the reason.

    jam> Lay it perhaps instead to the disappearance of the
    jam> conveniently searchable Gmane archive.

Easy come, easy go.  Gmane started its service for no apparent reason
without notifying anyone, they stopped it for no apparent reason
without notifying anyone.  They have a history of being an attractive
nuisance (publishing email addresses and other spam-facilitating
activities).  It's fundamentally irresponsible, but that is the way
they operate.

Feel free to rely on them if you judge it appropriate to do so.  But
don't attribute their unreliability to Mailman's maintainers and
volunteers---it's inherent in the way Gmane is organized and operates.

For what it's worth, although I don't use Gmane and consider their
operation to be irresponsible, I'm moderately in favor of allowing
them to gateway the Mailman lists for the convenience it apparently
affords many users.  I don't really have a problem with the
irresponsibility as such---I'd better not, everything *I* do comes
with NO WARRANTY attached!  However, when I publish software, people
who don't want to assume all risk of using it are free not to use it.

Similarly, the Mailman list admins should be free not to use Gmane, or
to require Gmane improvements as a condition of using Gmane, if they
dislike the risks it involves for (some of) their subscribers more
than they like the conveniences (for some other subscribers).  The
fact that Gmane *re*subscribed to Mailman lists in violation of both
their own policy and a previous request to cease and desist speaks
volumes for the risks and their lack of respect for others' privacy,
IMHO.


-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Feb 16 12:21:13 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:21:13 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
In-Reply-To: <87d5hnyeoh.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <43F33D7E.1070805@mcswartz.org> <87psloy4hq.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0602151751490.5360@westnet.com>
	<878xscroil.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<87d5hnyeoh.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06200725c01a0d03ea52@[10.0.1.210]>

At 3:56 PM +0900 2006-02-16, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>  For what it's worth, although I don't use Gmane and consider their
>  operation to be irresponsible, I'm moderately in favor of allowing
>  them to gateway the Mailman lists for the convenience it apparently
>  affords many users.

	I'm of two minds when it comes to Gmane.

	On the one hand, they take our content, store a copy locally, 
index that local content, and then make that available to their user 
base.  Clearly, there is a benefit here to the Gmane users, 
potentially even a commercial benefit.  But what do they contribute 
back to the larger Mailman community?  I don't see anything -- they 
take and take and take, and they give to their own private community, 
but I don't see them giving anything back to us.

	On the other hand, I understand that there are some people in 
this community who like to use Gmane, and I would not be generally 
opposed to them being able to read our content and participate in our 
discussions through a news gateway solution.  And Gmane has a news 
gateway solution.  But the problem is that it is out of our control, 
and I have personal experience in the kind of spewage that can occur 
when these sorts of things go haywire.  Okay, maybe it's a private 
news spool so these kinds of spewage are less likely, but I still 
don't know enough about their internal operations to help guarantee 
that these sorts of things don't happen to us.


	Given our past history with Gmane and the fact that they take our 
content without our permission, and that they've supposedly fixed 
this procedural problem and yet they did it again, I believe that we 
have good reason to distrust them.


	Personally, all code I write gets published under a BSD-style 
license.  And all the slides I create for all the invited talks I do 
at various conferences, gets published under a Creative Commons 2.0 
Non-commercial/share-alike license.  So, I don't mind too much if 
someone takes my own personal content and makes that available 
somewhere else -- but they had better not be making a profit on doing 
so.

	However, I am extremely uncomfortable with taking the content 
created by an entire community and then leeching off that.  Taking 
the content of a single person is one thing, taking the content of an 
entire community is quite something else.


	Yet, I find myself holding back.  I want to like Gmane.  I get 
their concept, and I understand the benefit to their members.  I 
would like to be able to allow them to continue gatewaying these 
lists.

	If they were to actually operate by the rules they espouse, and 
they were to provide some sort of benefit back to the communities 
whose content they are taking, I would support their gateway service.

	But we know they're not operating by those rules, and I don't see 
their benefit back to the larger Mailman community.



	Unless I'm missing something pretty big, I don't see a way out of 
this situation with a positive outcome for Gmane.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From damico.1 at osu.edu  Thu Feb 16 15:17:27 2006
From: damico.1 at osu.edu (Joe Damico)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 09:17:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem: Message has implicit destination
Message-ID: <200602161417.k1GEHRD0020763@defang19.it.ohio-state.edu>

Hello,

 

Have any of you dealt with this problem of a message being held for
moderator approval? 

 

I went to the "Sender filters" admin page and I added the sender address to
the "List of non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically
accepted."  But the messages are still being held for moderator approval.
The reason given is: "Message has implicit destination". 

 

What does this mean?  Can I do anything about it?  These messages are sent
many times a day by a cron job on a UNIX server; so, it is truly a great
inconvenience to have to approve them all the time.

 

Joe



From damico.1 at osu.edu  Thu Feb 16 16:23:45 2006
From: damico.1 at osu.edu (Joe Damico)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 10:23:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] implicit destination
Message-ID: <200602161523.k1GFNjQP006505@defang10.net.ohio-state.edu>

Hello

 

Sorry about the previous message.  I just found the explanation of "message
has implicit destination" in the FAQ document.

 

Thanks anyway.

 

Joe



From Jeff.Edwards at ccci.org  Thu Feb 16 19:15:36 2006
From: Jeff.Edwards at ccci.org (Jeff Edwards)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 13:15:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archiving Question
Message-ID: <C01A2B78.1B56%Jeff.Edwards@ccci.org>

I?ve been trying for several weeks now to understand the workings of Mailman
2.1.6?s archiving system, in order to produce an HTML archive to the
specification of my organization. Specifically, since many members of our
organization send plain text email with attached HTML signatures, or fully
HTML email, the managers find the ?An HTML attachment was scrubbed...? links
very undesirably. I?ve altered the settings in mm_cfg.py to attempt to make
Mailman stop removing the HTML attachments and instead convert them to
plaintext, but nothing I do seems able to make it display the contents of
the attachment on the same page as the body of the message. I would like for
the content of the HTML to appear on the HTML page for that message, rather
than requiring an extra clickthrough to see half the message. Is it possible
to make Mailman do this?

Jeff Edwards
Web Developer
Campus Crusade for Christ



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb 16 20:35:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 11:35:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <BAY108-F350E56BE4BC2A0E02B3895A3FA0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC17402006021611350102345b8e5aeb@msapiro>

Luke Shannon wrote:
>
>I would like Mailman to only handle subscribing and unsubscribing of users 
>to our 90 lists which are stored in a mySQL DB. The existing program will 
>continue send out the mails.
>
>Can this easily be done with Mailman? Will I have to change our database of 
>users to a different format?

There is a MySQL Mailman MemberAdaptor at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=839386&group_id=103&atid=300103>
and an updated version os this at
<http://trac.rezo.net/trac/rezo/browser/Mailman/>.

This would probably allow you to do what you want, but as Brad
indicated in another reply, some kind of Customer Relations Manager
may be more appropriate for your application.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb 16 20:57:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 11:57:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] emails being sent to moderators
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00602151128h47b41ee0odf35bb619b12522e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602161157280015b7a2102b@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>Probably a dumb question, but can you report the values of
>admin_immed_notify (I think this is [one of] the applicable
>setting[s]?)
>
>Also, maybe tail your mail server's logs and mailman's logs and see if
>you can trace what's happening when you send a message that gets
>moderated.
>
>On 2/15/06, troy kern <wytygr_99 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> For some reason mailman is not sending emails to
>> moderators for pending requests. I have fought this
>> for about a week and can not get it to work. Any ideas
>> as to what could be causing the issue?


In addition to Patrick's suggestions, make sure that the addresses
listed for owners and moderators are valid.

Also, you might try just sending an email to LIST-owner at ... to see if
that is delivered.

Also, if you are talking about daily summaries as opposed to immediate
notifications check to see that the cron/checkdbs job is being run by
cron.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb 16 21:37:09 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:37:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archiving Question
In-Reply-To: <C01A2B78.1B56%Jeff.Edwards@ccci.org>
Message-ID: <PC174020060216123709076523396fc6@msapiro>

Jeff Edwards wrote:
>I would like for
>the content of the HTML to appear on the HTML page for that message, rather
>than requiring an extra clickthrough to see half the message. Is it possible
>to make Mailman do this?


You need to use an external archiver. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.004.htp>.

The issue is that Pipermail does not handle multipart messages so they
have to be scrubbed to a single text/plain part before being archived.
Content filtering with HTML to plain text conversion can help, but
often because of character set issues, the converted part is scrubbed
anyway.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lukeshannon at hotmail.com  Thu Feb 16 21:54:47 2006
From: lukeshannon at hotmail.com (Luke Shannon)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 20:54:47 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006021611350102345b8e5aeb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BAY108-F1087898700C0E9228D4FB2A3FB0@phx.gbl>

Actually it doesn't really need to be in MySQL. As long as Mailman handles 
the add and removing of addresses to a list and creates an alias for each 
list, my java program could be tweaked to send mail to all alias rather than 
a set of email addresses (as it does now).

Thanks,

Luke


>From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
>To: "Luke Shannon" <lukeshannon at hotmail.com>,mailman-users at python.org
>Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
>Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 11:35:01 -0800
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from mail.value.net ([205.208.202.10]) by 
>bay0-mc10-f6.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 16 
>Feb 2006 11:35:10 -0800
>Received: from msapiro [209.182.169.133] by mail.value.net with ESMTP  
>(SMTPD32-8.15) id A3E61E4600E0; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:35:02 -0700
>X-Message-Info: JGTYoYF78jEHjJx36Oi8+Z3TmmkSEdPtfpLB7P/ybN8=
>X-Mailer: Ultrafunk Popcorn 1.74 (11-May-2005)
>Organization: Not Very Much
>Return-Path: msapiro at value.net
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Feb 2006 19:35:11.0780 (UTC) 
>FILETIME=[1A358640:01C63330]
>
>Luke Shannon wrote:
> >
> >I would like Mailman to only handle subscribing and unsubscribing of 
>users
> >to our 90 lists which are stored in a mySQL DB. The existing program will
> >continue send out the mails.
> >
> >Can this easily be done with Mailman? Will I have to change our database 
>of
> >users to a different format?
>
>There is a MySQL Mailman MemberAdaptor at
><http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=839386&group_id=103&atid=300103>
>and an updated version os this at
><http://trac.rezo.net/trac/rezo/browser/Mailman/>.
>
>This would probably allow you to do what you want, but as Brad
>indicated in another reply, some kind of Customer Relations Manager
>may be more appropriate for your application.
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>




From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb 16 22:04:53 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 13:04:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <BAY108-F1087898700C0E9228D4FB2A3FB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC174020060216130453078168d9f162@msapiro>

Luke Shannon wrote:

>Actually it doesn't really need to be in MySQL. As long as Mailman handles 
>the add and removing of addresses to a list and creates an alias for each 
>list, my java program could be tweaked to send mail to all alias rather than 
>a set of email addresses (as it does now).


Mailman does not create an alias per se. It does provide a list posting
address and receives posts at that address and sends them to the list
members.

If the only purpose of your MySQL database is to provide a list of
people/addresses to deliver to, you could use Mailman without
modification and let it maintain it's own membership list and handle
bounce processing and subscribe/unsubscribe, etc.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp>
for information about setting up announcement (one-way) lists.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb 16 22:19:36 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 13:19:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] footers in mailman
In-Reply-To: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A3736A57F@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <PC174020060216131936087568d9f1af@msapiro>

Steven Jones wrote:
>
>I am having difficulty in settings footers in mailman. The mailman-users
>list here attaches a footer and Outlook displays it correctly, however
>my own list mail appears as an attachment, so I assume I am missing a
>setting? Searching the archives suggests it is an Exchnage problem but
>if one list is OK, then the other should be as well....

It depends on the details of your post after content filtering if any.
If the post is a single text/plain part and there are no 'character
set issues', the list header and/or footer will just be added to the
text/plain part. Otherwise, they will be added as separate MIME parts.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From andyk at spunge.org  Thu Feb 16 21:44:47 2006
From: andyk at spunge.org (Andy)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 14:44:47 -0600 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] IOError in Mailman.
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0602161444150.708@chi.spunge.org>

Hi!

I asked admin to install Mailman, but he has the following problem:

=======
Jan 01 00:33:33 2006 (27243) IOError reading list extension: [Errno 20]
Not a directory: '/usr/local/mailman/data/sitelist.cf\
g/extend.py'
Jan 01 00:33:33 2006 mailmanctl(27243): Site list is missing:
/usr/local/mailman/data/sitelist.cfg
Jan 01 00:33:33 2006 (27243) Site list is missing:
/usr/local/mailman/data/sitelist.cfg
Jan 01 00:38:27 2006 (27258) IOError reading list extension: [Errno 20]
Not a directory: '/usr/local/mailman/data/sitelist.cf\
g/extend.py'
Jan 01 00:38:27 2006 mailmanctl(27258): Site list is missing:
/usr/local/mailman/data/sitelist.cfg
Jan 01 00:38:27 2006 (27258) Site list is missing:
/usr/local/mailman/data/sitelist.cfg
Jan 01 00:41:02 2006 (27280) IOError reading list extension: [Errno 20]
Not a directory: '/usr/local/mailman/data/sitelist.cf\
g/extend.py'
Jan 01 00:41:02 2006 mailmanctl(27280): Site list is missing:
/usr/local/mailman/data/sitelist.cfg
Jan 01 00:41:02 2006 (27280) Site list is missing:
/usr/local/mailman/data/sitelist.cfg
Jan 01 00:43:32 2006 (27284) IOError reading list extension: [Errno 20]
Not a directory: '/usr/local/mailman/data/sitelist.cf\
g/extend.py'
Jan 01 00:43:32 2006 mailmanctl(27284): Site list is missing:
/usr/local/mailman/data/sitelist.cfg
Jan 01 00:43:32 2006 (27284) Site list is missing:
/usr/local/mailman/data/sitelist.cfg
Jan 01 00:44:19 2006 (27286) IOError reading list extension: [Errno 20]
Not a directory: '/usr/local/mailman/data/sitelist.cf\
g/extend.py'
Jan 01 00:44:19 2006 mailmanctl(27286): Site list is missing:
/usr/local/mailman/data/sitelist.cfg
Jan 01 00:44:19 2006 (27286) Site list is missing:
/usr/local/mailman/data/sitelist.cfg
Jan 01 00:46:34 2006 (27295) IOError reading list extension: [Errno 20]
Not a directory: '/usr/local/mailman/data/sitelist.cf\
g/extend.py'
Jan 01 00:46:34 2006 mailmanctl(27295): Site list is missing:
/usr/local/mailman/data/sitelist.cfg
Jan 01 00:46:34 2006 (27295) Site list is missing:
/usr/local/mailman/data/sitelist.cfg
==========

Can you please help, and tell us what is wrong?

Cheers!
ak






From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Feb 16 23:29:05 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 16:29:05 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <BAY108-F1087898700C0E9228D4FB2A3FB0@phx.gbl>
References: <PC17402006021611350102345b8e5aeb@msapiro>
	<BAY108-F1087898700C0E9228D4FB2A3FB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602161429w3d5acc8cr2073d8dfef5da97c@mail.gmail.com>

Sounds like you just want a mailman list that only one 'person' (in
this case, your Java program) can send to...

- Patrick Bogen

On 2/16/06, Luke Shannon <lukeshannon at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Actually it doesn't really need to be in MySQL. As long as Mailman handles
> the add and removing of addresses to a list and creates an alias for each
> list, my java program could be tweaked to send mail to all alias rather than
> a set of email addresses (as it does now).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Luke
>
>
> >From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
> >To: "Luke Shannon" <lukeshannon at hotmail.com>,mailman-users at python.org
> >Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
> >Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 11:35:01 -0800
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Received: from mail.value.net ([205.208.202.10]) by
> >bay0-mc10-f6.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 16
> >Feb 2006 11:35:10 -0800
> >Received: from msapiro [209.182.169.133] by mail.value.net with ESMTP
> >(SMTPD32-8.15) id A3E61E4600E0; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:35:02 -0700
> >X-Message-Info: JGTYoYF78jEHjJx36Oi8+Z3TmmkSEdPtfpLB7P/ybN8=
> >X-Mailer: Ultrafunk Popcorn 1.74 (11-May-2005)
> >Organization: Not Very Much
> >Return-Path: msapiro at value.net
> >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Feb 2006 19:35:11.0780 (UTC)
> >FILETIME=[1A358640:01C63330]
> >
> >Luke Shannon wrote:
> > >
> > >I would like Mailman to only handle subscribing and unsubscribing of
> >users
> > >to our 90 lists which are stored in a mySQL DB. The existing program will
> > >continue send out the mails.
> > >
> > >Can this easily be done with Mailman? Will I have to change our database
> >of
> > >users to a different format?
> >
> >There is a MySQL Mailman MemberAdaptor at
> ><http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=839386&group_id=103&atid=300103>
> >and an updated version os this at
> ><http://trac.rezo.net/trac/rezo/browser/Mailman/>.
> >
> >This would probably allow you to do what you want, but as Brad
> >indicated in another reply, some kind of Customer Relations Manager
> >may be more appropriate for your application.
> >
> >--
> >Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> >San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pdbogen%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
>


--
- Patrick Bogen


From mwheeler at startext.co.uk  Fri Feb 17 01:07:25 2006
From: mwheeler at startext.co.uk (Martin Wheeler)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 00:07:25 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Editing incoming mail
In-Reply-To: <e04a6c920602151703s4dcd3f56s@mail.gmail.com>
References: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A3736A527@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
	<e04a6c920602151703s4dcd3f56s@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0602170002100.27009@chaucer.startext.demon.co.uk>

This question *must* have been asked many times before -- how *does* one 
moderate / edit incoming mail on a mailman list?

(Google searches are not much use -- I must be searching for the wrong 
thing.)

Any pointers *much* appreciated.

[Does one maybe have to stuff everything into a MySQL database and edit 
that?  I just don't know.]

Thanks in advance,
-- 
Martin Wheeler   -   StarTEXT / AVALONIX - Glastonbury - BA6 9PH - England
mwheeler at startext.co.uk                http://www.startext.co.uk/mwheeler/
GPG pub key : 01269BEB  6CAD BFFB DB11 653E B1B7 C62B  AC93 0ED8 0126 9BEB
       - Share your knowledge. It's a way of achieving immortality. -


From kalin at el.net  Fri Feb 17 02:24:47 2006
From: kalin at el.net (kalin mintchev)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 20:24:47 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no confirmation required?
Message-ID: <54597.68.165.89.71.1140139487.squirrel@mail.el.net>


 hi all...

 i have a set up of mailman that hosts a lot of email lists. recently more
and more people want to have a list but a lot of them don't want their
users to go through all the subscription-confirmation-welcome messages
process. i took off the welcome messages but not sure how to avoid the
confirmation email.
as far as i can see the options in the admin are not allowing this.
i know what is the purpose of this confirmation and why it's
implementation but no matter how many times i explain it to the list
owners they don't want it. like a few of those clients are non-profit
cancer awareness groups and a wedding dresses selling company - they just
don't want it. i'd ratter use mailman than reinventing the wheel and there
is always the option to unsubscribe....

so how do i avoid the confirmation? i would like to just send an email to
the list using a form and the address in the form should be added to the
list without further processing.
i also realize that this has been discussed before but i just wanted to
update it a bit...

thanks..



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 17 05:22:38 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 20:22:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Editing incoming mail
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0602170002100.27009@chaucer.startext.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <PC17402006021620223802182ac1a940@msapiro>

Martin Wheeler wrote:

>This question *must* have been asked many times before -- how *does* one 
>moderate / edit incoming mail on a mailman list?


<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.009.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Feb 17 06:34:08 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 14:34:08 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
In-Reply-To: <p06200725c01a0d03ea52@[10.0.1.210]> (Brad Knowles's message of
	"Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:21:13 +0100")
References: <43F33D7E.1070805@mcswartz.org> <87psloy4hq.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0602151751490.5360@westnet.com>
	<878xscroil.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<87d5hnyeoh.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06200725c01a0d03ea52@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <87fymiwnu7.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Brad" == Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> writes:

    Brad> Clearly, there is a benefit here to the Gmane users,
    Brad> potentially even a commercial benefit.  But what do they
    Brad> contribute back to the larger Mailman community?

I don't think that's a useful question to ask.  Open source is not
about paybacks.  (Although copyleft clearly is, to many people.)  Open
source is about payforwards.  I do something for you, and you do
something for somebody else.  What goes around, comes around,
eventually.  I think Gmane qualifies on that score: I know a lot of
contributors to open source projects who think Gmane makes their work
more effective.

In the case of Gmane, I know the jam at jamux address; I can't think of
any code contributions off the top of my head, but John has impressed
me as someone who makes good contributions to discussion on several
lists.  I'd be sorry to lose his contributions, even though I'm not
willing to follow his lead in this case.  Isn't his support (along
with others like him) enough to qualify Gmane as a "contributor"?
IMHO, it should be.

    Brad> 	If they were to actually operate by the rules they
    Brad> espouse, [...].  But we know they're not operating by those
    Brad> rules.

Aye, there's the rub.  I don't much like the rules that they actually
play by.  The procedures are biased toward producing mistakes of this
kind.  And by the nature of their service they tend to impose their
standards for privacy protection etc on the lists that they gateway.
The combination is not appealing for Mailman, I'm afraid.


-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From jam at jamux.com  Fri Feb 17 07:32:16 2006
From: jam at jamux.com (John A. Martin)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 01:32:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
In-Reply-To: <p06200723c019a14bab0f@[10.0.1.210]> (Brad Knowles's message of
	"Thu, 16 Feb 2006 04:27:41 +0100")
References: <43F33D7E.1070805@mcswartz.org> <87psloy4hq.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0602151751490.5360@westnet.com>
	<878xscroil.fsf@athene.jamux.com> <p06200723c019a14bab0f@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <878xsaqyvj.fsf@athene.jamux.com>

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From jam at jamux.com  Fri Feb 17 07:34:14 2006
From: jam at jamux.com (John A. Martin)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 01:34:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
In-Reply-To: <87d5hnyeoh.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (Stephen
	J. Turnbull's message of "Thu, 16 Feb 2006 15:56:46 +0900")
References: <43F33D7E.1070805@mcswartz.org> <87psloy4hq.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0602151751490.5360@westnet.com>
	<878xscroil.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<87d5hnyeoh.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <877j7uqys9.fsf@athene.jamux.com>

>>>>> "sjt" == Stephen J Turnbull
>>>>> "Re: [Mailman-Users] GMane?"
>>>>>  Thu, 16 Feb 2006 15:56:46 +0900

>>>>> "jam" == John A Martin <jam at jamux.com> writes:

    sjt> I missed at least one of your posts, receiving Brad's reply
    sjt> to it almost 24 hours in advance of your post.  Even today
    sjt> this is common for netnews.

Sorry, Gmane is not netnews.  Gmane is not Usenet.

The Mailman-* lists were removed from Gmane at least two days before I
sent anything (recently) to this list.  By what mechanism do you
suppose Gmane could have caused mail to be delayed or received out of
order after the list was removed?

JFTR after the first two mails I sent this list Wednesday,

	To: mailman-users at python.org
	References: <43F33D7E.1070805 at mcswartz.org>
	Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 11:24:33 -0500
	Message-ID: <87psloy4hq.fsf at athene.jamux.com>
	
	To: Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
	Cc: John Swartzentruber <johnslists at mcswartz.org>,
                mailman-users at python.org 
	References: <43F33D7E.1070805 at mcswartz.org>
		<p06200719c019133b6002@[10.0.1.210]>
	Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 12:46:23 -0500
	In-Reply-To: <p06200719c019133b6002@[10.0.1.210]>
                (Brad Knowles's message of 
		"Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:21:08 +0100")
	Message-ID: <87fymky0pc.fsf at athene.jamux.com>

did not appear on the list for some time, I poked around saved monthly
reminders and realized that I was subscribed to this list with an
address at which I currently receive mail but at which I have not sent
mail for some time.  I changed my subscription on the list web
interface and eventually received the mail confirmation request and
did the confirmation on the web interface.

Using my newly subscribed sending address I resent the first mail
indicated above which carried the following pertinent header fields to
the list.

	Delivered-To: mailman-users at bag.python.org
	Received: from bag.python.org (bag [127.0.0.1])
		by bag.python.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 893591E400A
		for <mailman-users at python.org>;
                Wed, 15 Feb 2006 23:51:15 +0100 (CET) 
	Resent-Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 17:51:11 -0500
	Resent-Message-ID: <87irrgutgg.fsf at athene.jamux.com>
	From: "John A. Martin" <jam at jamux.com>
	To: mailman-users at python.org
	References: <43F33D7E.1070805 at mcswartz.org>
	Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 11:24:33 -0500
	In-Reply-To: <43F33D7E.1070805 at mcswartz.org>
                (John Swartzentruber's message of 
		"Wed, 15 Feb 2006 09:41:02 -0500")
	Message-ID: <87psloy4hq.fsf at athene.jamux.com>

Not wishing to annoy Brad Knowles or John Swartzentruber with
additional copies of my second mail to the list I made a new mail (new
Message-ID (and new PGP signature)) with a single Header-Recipient and
the same Header-Date and the same content as the mail I had sent about
five hours and 10 minutes earlier.

	Delivered-To: mailman-users at bag.python.org
	Received: from bag.python.org (bag [127.0.0.1])
		by bag.python.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A7171E4024
		for <mailman-users at python.org>;
                Wed, 15 Feb 2006 23:56:37 +0100 (CET) 
	Received: from athene.jamux.com (athene.jamux.com [65.222.215.34])
		by bag.python.org (Postfix) with ESMTP
		for <mailman-users at python.org>;
                Wed, 15 Feb 2006 23:56:36 +0100 (CET) 
	Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
		by athene.jamux.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 027472F445
		for <mailman-users at python.org>;
                Wed, 15 Feb 2006 17:56:36 -0500 (EST) 
	From: "John A. Martin" <jam at jamux.com>
	To: mailman-users at python.org
	In-Reply-To: <p06200719c019133b6002@[10.0.1.210]>
                (Brad Knowles's message of 
		"Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:21:08 +0100")
	Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 12:46:23 -0500
	References: <43F33D7E.1070805 at mcswartz.org>
		<p06200719c019133b6002@[10.0.1.210]>
	Message-ID: <87d5hout7p.fsf at athene.jamux.com>

The above are I believe the most pertinent header fields but I expect
that any subscriber to this list can see the full header if they wish.

I expect also that anybody who cares to look will see that Brad's
response to my Message-ID: <87fymky0pc.fsf at athene.jamux.com>, (not a
response to my <87d5hout7p.fsf at athene.jamux.com>) was received by
bag.python.org at Feb 2006 18:58:30 +0100 (CET) which, by my
calculation is about two minutes shy of being five hours ahead of when
my Message-ID:<87d5hout7p.fsf at athene.jamux.com> was received.

	Delivered-To: mailman-users at bag.python.org
	Received: from bag.python.org (bag [127.0.0.1])
		by bag.python.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85D4C1E4007
		for <mailman-users at python.org>;
                Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:58:30 +0100 (CET) 
	Message-Id: <p0620071dc0191b764dc8@[10.0.1.210]>
	In-Reply-To: <87fymky0pc.fsf at athene.jamux.com>
	References: <43F33D7E.1070805 at mcswartz.org>
		<p06200719c019133b6002@[10.0.1.210]>
		<87fymky0pc.fsf at athene.jamux.com>
	Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:57:24 +0100
	To: "John A. Martin" <jam at jamux.com>
	From: Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
	Cc: Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>,
                mailman-users at python.org,
	        John Swartzentruber <johnslists at mcswartz.org>

It looks to me as if my clumsiness coming out of long lurking accounts
for about 5 hours in the delay of almost 24 hours that you observe
between receipt of Brad's answer and my question.  (Extreme Top
Posting? :))

I am at a loss however to understand any of this being attributable to
or in any way related to netnews or to Gmane.  Perhaps you would be
kind enough to show the evidence upon which you base this connection?

Hmm... maybe we have stumbled upon a new watch-word: "When in doubt,
Blame Gmane".  Has a nice ring to it, no?

    sjt> Gmane started its service for no apparent reason without
    sjt> notifying anyone,

Lars should have consulted you in 2002 before offering a mailing list
archive to The Net, right?

    sjt> they stopped it for no apparent reason

?!?

You mean Gmane stopped carrying the mailman-* lists?

Lars said, "The mailman people requested that they be removed", see
<http://article.gmane.org/gmane.discuss/9291>.

    sjt> without notifying anyone.

See <http://article.gmane.org/gmane.discuss/9293>.  Perhaps this is
not an everyday occurrence?

    sjt> They have a history of being an attractive nuisance
    sjt> (publishing email addresses and other spam-facilitating
    sjt> activities).  It's fundamentally irresponsible, but that is
    sjt> the way they operate.

Did you have a similar view of Altavista ten years or so ago?

List owners (or more accurately, whoever subscribes a list to Gmane)
have a number of choices (Posting allowed, Read only, List member only
posting, No posting through Gmane, Encrypt addresses, Spam tagging,
and more).  ISTM choosing the appropriate posting option and encrypted
address would go a long way toward reducing the nuisances.

Gmane is a Free Public Service.  Like the man said, "If it cannot be
abused, it is not free".  Such is the world.

Blame Gmane because bad people use it. :)

    sjt> although I don't use Gmane and consider their operation to be
    sjt> irresponsible, I'm moderately in favor of allowing them to
    sjt> gateway the Mailman lists for the convenience it apparently
    sjt> affords many users.

Good.

I have suggested to list owners that sooner or later someone will
likely subscribe their list to Gmane.  This is because it is there and
there are folks that like to use it.  To make the best of it I suggest
that list owners might want to subscribe their lists themselves and
perhaps get a better place (name) in the Gmane hierarchy but, most
importantly, so they can choose the options themselves.  Also they can
more easily copy old archives to Gmane.

    sjt> the Mailman list admins should be free not to use Gmane, or
    sjt> to require Gmane improvements as a condition of using Gmane,

It is not as if Lars or his minions are trying to persuade anyone in
particular to subscribe a particular list.  List subscribers are
likely sooner or later to try to subscribe a list, or persuade a list
owner to do so, unless steps are taken to prevent it.

    sjt> The fact that Gmane *re*subscribed to Mailman lists in
    sjt> violation of both their own policy and a previous request to
    sjt> cease and desist speaks volumes for the risks and their lack
    sjt> of respect for others' privacy, IMHO.

Do you really think anyone at Gmane subscribed the mailman-* lists?
Don't you imagine that someone, probably a subscriber, subscribed the
list?

Lars said he had made a mistake.  See
<http://article.gmane.org/gmane.discuss/9291>.

        jam

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From jam at jamux.com  Fri Feb 17 07:35:29 2006
From: jam at jamux.com (John A. Martin)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 01:35:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
In-Reply-To: <p06200725c01a0d03ea52@[10.0.1.210]> (Brad Knowles's message of
	"Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:21:13 +0100")
References: <43F33D7E.1070805@mcswartz.org> <87psloy4hq.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0602151751490.5360@westnet.com>
	<878xscroil.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<87d5hnyeoh.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06200725c01a0d03ea52@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <8764neqyq6.fsf@athene.jamux.com>

>>>>> "Brad" == Brad Knowles
>>>>> "Re: [Mailman-Users] GMane?"
>>>>>  Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:21:13 +0100

    Brad> 	I'm of two minds when it comes to Gmane.

    Brad> 	On the one hand, they take our content, store a copy
    Brad> locally, index that local content, and then make that
    Brad> available to their user base.  Clearly, there is a benefit
    Brad> here to the Gmane users, potentially even a commercial
    Brad> benefit.  But what do they contribute back to the larger
    Brad> Mailman community?  I don't see anything -- they take and
    Brad> take and take, and they give to their own private community,
    Brad> but I don't see them giving anything back to us.

Gmane offers a public service, available to anyone, not just to some
"private community".  I think one would be hard put to it to find
evidence of commercial interests other than good will (in the economic
sense) at Gmane.  It is also perhaps a fair bet that Gmane is unlikely
to assist a tyrannical regime in policing who uses Gmane or for what
purpose.

The fact that folks subscribe lists and use Gmane suggests that folks
find it to be a service there that they prefer enough to take the
trouble to use it.  You may not prefer to read mail as if it were news
but there are those that do.  Beyond that some folks like the web
interfaces that offer frames and threads and a blog-like flat
interface while others like the four kinds of RSS feeds besides the
NNTP interface.  Users also have access to a couple of small handy
features like what amounts to a pseudo-anonymous (obfuscated) mail
forwarding service (using Gmane's archive address encryption scheme)
and having an 'Archived-At:' field in each article header (at least on
the NNTP side).

List owners may appreciate that Gmane makes their list more attractive
but it also provides redundancy and diversity making the list archives
mare robust.  Gmane gathers statistics and makes charts that can be
displayed on a list's web pages.

It would seem undeniable that Gmane provides a service that by some
measure enhances the mailing lists that it carries.

What are you looking for Gmane to do for "the larger Mailman
community"?  Provide some benefit to lists than do not use Gmane?
What does Gmane "take and take and take" from lists that do not use
Gmane?  And what, precisely, does Gmane "take and take and take" from
subscribed lists that is not given freely to any list subscriber?

While we are at it, what does Mailman do for the larger community that
does not use its software?  Do we consider different standards for a
service that is offered freely to the public than for software so
offered?

BTW all the Gmane software and all of the web pages are freely
available, see <http://gmane.org/dist.php>.

    Brad> Gmane has a news gateway solution.  But the problem is that
    Brad> it is out of our control, and I have personal experience in
    Brad> the kind of spewage that can occur when these sorts of
    Brad> things go haywire. 

Can you be mare specific?  Haven't you lost control as soon as you
send a mail to any address you do not control?  What kind of spewage?
What sorts of things go haywire.  How many boogiemen are hiding in one
sentence?

    Brad> I still don't know enough about their internal operations to
    Brad> help guarantee that these sorts of things don't happen to
    Brad> us.

You have perused the www.gmane.org, presumably?  Have you asked
questions on gmane.discuss?  What sorts of things?  Guarantees against
unspecified hazards are unimpressive, IMHO.

    Brad> 	Given our past history with Gmane and the fact that
    Brad> take our content without our permission

I fail to understand how Gmane can have taken your content without
your permission.  Gmane must have complied with whatever you required
for subscription to your lists, and their subscription would seem to
entitle them to "take" exactly the same content that you send, or make
available, to them or any other subscriber.  You speak as if you view
what you give any other subscriber as theft when you give it to Gmane.

    Brad> and that they've supposedly fixed this procedural problem
    Brad> and yet they did it again, I believe that we have good
    Brad> reason to distrust them.

According to Lars, <http://article.gmane.org/gmane.discuss/9291>, he
must have made a mistake.  Where did he say he had fixed a procedural
problem?

    Brad> 	Personally, all code I write gets published under a
    Brad> BSD-style license.  And all the slides I create for all the
    Brad> invited talks I do at various conferences, gets published
    Brad> under a Creative Commons 2.0 Non-commercial/share-alike
    Brad> license.  So, I don't mind too much if someone takes my own
    Brad> personal content and makes that available somewhere else --
    Brad> but they had better not be making a profit on doing so.

Have you been as uneasy that Altavista and Google and everyone
between might turn a profit in part because they facilitate access to
your "not-for profit" material?

    Brad> 	However, I am extremely uncomfortable with taking the
    Brad> content created by an entire community and then leeching off
    Brad> that.  Taking the content of a single person is one thing,
    Brad> taking the content of an entire community is quite something
    Brad> else.

What is Gmane taking that is not freely given to others?  How can a
service that enhances the access to material and that is freely
available to the public be characterized as "leaching".  That makes
about as much sense to me as saying that a mailing list operator is
"leaching" off the list members.  Granted, IIRC that has been true in
the past with respect to certain "free" services offered by entities
that claimed ownership over the content.  (I haven't kept up, are they
still claiming ownership?  Alas I even forget who it was.)

    Brad> 	Yet, I find myself holding back.  I want to like
    Brad> Gmane.  I get their concept, and I understand the benefit to
    Brad> their members.  I would like to be able to allow them to
    Brad> continue gatewaying these lists.

    Brad> 	If they were to actually operate by the rules they
    Brad> espouse, and they were to provide some sort of benefit back
    Brad> to the communities whose content they are taking, I would
    Brad> support their gateway service.

    Brad> 	But we know they're not operating by those rules, and
    Brad> I don't see their benefit back to the larger Mailman
    Brad> community.

    Brad> 	Unless I'm missing something pretty big, I don't see a
    Brad> way out of this situation with a positive outcome for Gmane.

Perhaps you know too much, like: "they're not operating by those
rules".  For one thing, "they" are not a faceless monolith, "they", to
all intent and purposes, are Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen who has been
around a while.  If you really want to like Gmane maybe you would like
to follow gmane.discuss for a while then ask questions there.  If you
don't care to read news,  just point a browser at
<http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.discuss> to get started.

        jam

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From jam at jamux.com  Fri Feb 17 07:37:08 2006
From: jam at jamux.com (John A. Martin)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 01:37:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
In-Reply-To: <p06200724c019a1b3c36c@[10.0.1.210]> (Brad Knowles's message of
	"Thu, 16 Feb 2006 04:29:55 +0100")
References: <43F33D7E.1070805@mcswartz.org>
	<p06200719c019133b6002@[10.0.1.210]> <87fymky0pc.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<p0620071dc0191b764dc8@[10.0.1.210]> <877j7wroh6.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<p06200724c019a1b3c36c@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <874q2yqynf.fsf@athene.jamux.com>

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From jam at jamux.com  Fri Feb 17 07:38:29 2006
From: jam at jamux.com (John A. Martin)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 01:38:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
In-Reply-To: <43F40378.1050309@equinephotoart.com> (JC Dill's message of "Wed, 
	15 Feb 2006 20:45:44 -0800")
References: <43F33D7E.1070805@mcswartz.org>
	<p06200719c019133b6002@[10.0.1.210]> <87fymky0pc.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<p0620071dc0191b764dc8@[10.0.1.210]> <877j7wroh6.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<p06200724c019a1b3c36c@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43F40378.1050309@equinephotoart.com>
Message-ID: <873biiqyl6.fsf@athene.jamux.com>

>>>>> "JC" == JC Dill
>>>>> "Re: [Mailman-Users] GMane?"
>>>>>  Wed, 15 Feb 2006 20:45:44 -0800

    JC> When we first asked Gmane to not gateway this list, one of the
    JC> issues was that while our own archives munge the email address
    JC> of list posters, the Gmane feed didn't do any munging.

Did you consider selecting the option to have Gmane do address
obfuscation?  I suppose that would require someone at Gmane to
intervene if your list had been subscribed by a third party.

    JC> Taken together (gatewaying the list without permission, and
    JC> exposing the email addresses to spammers) we were not very
    JC> happy with Gmane's actions.

The "without permission" bit is I think a bit misplaced.  Any
subscriber can do what they will with list mail they receive.  They
can (and do in other venues) put list mail to public and private
archives, send it to other lists, and expose it to search engines
anywhere.  In fact Gmane removes lists when there objections.  I don't
know what more it is reasonable to expect from Gmane.

From what has been said it seems that Lars agreed to remove the lists
but later it appeared either the removal was not done or that the
lists had been subscribed again.  Whatever the case it seems that Lars
acknowledged, in <http://article.gmane.org/gmane.discuss/9291>, that
something had apparently gone wrong "a long, long time ago".

If Gmane was such a menace to the lists why was it "a long, long time"
before the issue was brought to Lars attention again?

        jam

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From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Feb 17 10:37:40 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 10:37:40 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no confirmation required?
In-Reply-To: <54597.68.165.89.71.1140139487.squirrel@mail.el.net>
References: <54597.68.165.89.71.1140139487.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <p06200702c01b49c30b90@[10.0.1.211]>

At 8:24 PM -0500 2006-02-16, kalin mintchev wrote:

>   i have a set up of mailman that hosts a lot of email lists. recently more
>  and more people want to have a list but a lot of them don't want their
>  users to go through all the subscription-confirmation-welcome messages
>  process. i took off the welcome messages but not sure how to avoid the
>  confirmation email.

	This is something to be discouraged, because it makes you too 
much like a spammer.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Feb 17 10:37:04 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 10:37:04 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Editing incoming mail
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0602170002100.27009@chaucer.startext.demon.co.uk>
References: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A3736A527@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.
	ac.nz>	<e04a6c920602151703s4dcd3f56s@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.61.0602170002100.27009@chaucer.startext.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <p06200701c01b481aa7d4@[10.0.1.211]>

At 12:07 AM +0000 2006-02-17, Martin Wheeler wrote:

>  This question *must* have been asked many times before -- how *does* one
>  moderate / edit incoming mail on a mailman list?

	Via the web, you don't.  The only solution is to moderate via 
e-mail, and to have the moderator submit an altered message with the 
appropriate "Approved:" header in place.

>  (Google searches are not much use -- I must be searching for the wrong
>  thing.)

	The answer is in the archives of the list, and in the Mailman FAQ 
Wizard.  Those are two places you should search first, before going 
to Google -- which isn't being very useful in this case.

	In particular, see FAQ 3.9.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From kalin at el.net  Fri Feb 17 11:56:50 2006
From: kalin at el.net (kalin mintchev)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 05:56:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no confirmation required?
In-Reply-To: <p06200702c01b49c30b90@[10.0.1.211]>
References: <54597.68.165.89.71.1140139487.squirrel@mail.el.net>   
	<p06200702c01b49c30b90@[10.0.1.211]>
Message-ID: <50809.24.90.33.115.1140173810.squirrel@mail.el.net>

> At 8:24 PM -0500 2006-02-16, kalin mintchev wrote:
>>   i have a set up of mailman that hosts a lot of email lists. recently
>> more
>>  and more people want to have a list but a lot of them don't want their
users to go through all the subscription-confirmation-welcome messages
process. i took off the welcome messages but not sure how to avoid the
confirmation email.
> 	This is something to be discouraged, because it makes you too
> much like a spammer.

right...  spamming about cancer awareness or wedding dresses.... si...
i kinda explained that i'm aware of this argument...

the other option is to lose those clients....

thanks anyway....








From chris at westnet.com  Fri Feb 17 13:07:23 2006
From: chris at westnet.com (Christopher X. Candreva)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 07:07:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no confirmation required?
In-Reply-To: <50809.24.90.33.115.1140173810.squirrel@mail.el.net>
References: <54597.68.165.89.71.1140139487.squirrel@mail.el.net>   
	<p06200702c01b49c30b90@[10.0.1.211]>
	<50809.24.90.33.115.1140173810.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0602170701150.17691@westnet.com>

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006, kalin mintchev wrote:

> right...  spamming about cancer awareness or wedding dresses.... si...
> i kinda explained that i'm aware of this argument...
> 
> the other option is to lose those clients....

The other option is to risk being put on a blacklist for running a 
non-compliant mailing list.

Forget spam. A mailing list that does not require a response to a 
confirmation before subscribing an address can be abused for a DOS attack. 
Suppose I don't like you, and decide to subscribe you to 1,000 mailing 
lists.

If they require confirmation, you get 1,000 confirmation messages and it is 
over.

If they DON'T require confirmation, you are now on 1,000 lists that you need 
to track down and unsubscribe from.

Explained this way I've yet to loose a mailing list customer.


==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/


From tim06 at perdue.net  Fri Feb 17 13:14:14 2006
From: tim06 at perdue.net (Tim Perdue)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 06:14:14 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] auto-rejecting non-member posts
Message-ID: <43F5BE16.3070409@perdue.net>

I'm getting flooded under requests to approve spammer posts to 
lists.gforge.org and wondered if there was a way to auto-reject 
non-member posts instead of sending them to me for approval.

Thanks,

Tim


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Feb 17 13:45:58 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 21:45:58 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
In-Reply-To: <877j7uqys9.fsf@athene.jamux.com> (John A. Martin's message of
	"Fri, 17 Feb 2006 01:34:14 -0500")
References: <43F33D7E.1070805@mcswartz.org> <87psloy4hq.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0602151751490.5360@westnet.com>
	<878xscroil.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<87d5hnyeoh.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<877j7uqys9.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
Message-ID: <874q2yupa1.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "jam" == John A Martin <jam at jamux.com> writes:

    sjt> I missed at least one of your posts, receiving Brad's reply
    sjt> to it almost 24 hours in advance of your post.  Even today
    sjt> this is common for netnews.

    jam> Sorry, Gmane is not netnews.  Gmane is not Usenet.

OK, so that's not due to Gmane, it's due to the fact that you have
been using Gmane.  Different mechanism, same result.

    jam> I am at a loss however to understand any of this being
    jam> attributable to or in any way related to netnews or to Gmane.
    jam> Perhaps you would be kind enough to show the evidence upon
    jam> which you base this connection?

The circumstantial evidence.  Be thankful nobody's in a hanging mood. :-)
(Yes, I know about the "post hoc" fallacy.)

    sjt> Gmane started its service for no apparent reason without
    sjt> notifying anyone,

    jam> Lars should have consulted you in 2002 before offering a
    jam> mailing list archive to The Net, right?

Of any lists I administer, yes.  I was a bit peeved when I found out
months after the fact that they had been subscribed, despite having no
objection in principle.

    sjt> they stopped it for no apparent reason

    jam> ?!?

    jam> You mean Gmane stopped carrying the mailman-* lists?

Yes.

    jam> Lars said, "The mailman people requested that they be
    jam> removed", see <http://article.gmane.org/gmane.discuss/9291>.

Brad says he didn't, at least not in the past week.  There are others
who can speak for Mailman, but Lars apparently doesn't see the need to
identify who he's listening to.  So maybe he acted on the rumor that
Brad was _going_ to ask him.  Is that any way to run a railroad?

    sjt> without notifying anyone.

    jam> See <http://article.gmane.org/gmane.discuss/9293>.

No, I'm not going to look, and you're way out of bounds for suggesting
that anybody *should* look.  It's the other way around; those who want
the Gmane service should take it up here (more precisely, with
mailman-users-owner at python.org).

Also, Gmane should get confirmation from the list owner whenever it
subscribes or unsubscribes, for exactly the same reason that Mailman
gets confirmation from a user when it subscribes or unsubscribes.

    sjt> They have a history of being an attractive nuisance
    sjt> (publishing email addresses and other spam-facilitating
    sjt> activities).  It's fundamentally irresponsible, but that is
    sjt> the way they operate.

    jam> Did you have a similar view of Altavista ten years or so ago?

Yes and no.  Yes; of course I support the robots.txt protocol, and
that is because there were a number of incidents of undesired
indexing.

On the other hand, no.  First, at the time there was no protocol for
saying "don't index".  This isn't true for finding list owners, the
informal use of LIST-owner and/or LIST-admin goes back to early
majordomo at least, maybe back to UCSD listserv.

Second, Altavista et al simply link to what is publically available
anyway, which is part of the advertised functioning of the web, and is
a practice that goes back to the earliest days of writing.  Gmane on
the other hand copies and retransmits (specifically forbidden by
copyright law, unless you have explicit permission from the copyright
holder) and can also _change_ what is publically available on the web.
The potential problems with those behaviors have been known since
ancient times, too (which is part of why copyright exists, and and
most of why many jurisdictions have inalienable "author's rights" as
well).

Third, if third parties subscribe a list to Gmane, the list-owner's
membership-management prerogatives are usurped.  This is not true of
indexing.

    jam> List owners (or more accurately, whoever subscribes a list to
    jam> Gmane) have a number of choices (Posting allowed, Read only,
    jam> List member only posting, No posting through Gmane, Encrypt
    jam> addresses, Spam tagging, and more).  ISTM choosing the
    jam> appropriate posting option and encrypted address would go a
    jam> long way toward reducing the nuisances.

I agree 100%.  The problem is your parenthetical remark.  The Mailman
admins are on the record as not wanting these lists on Gmane.  I think
it reasonable to suppose they did not subscribe Gmane to the lists.
Therefore somebody else did, and since they are not the admins, they
are far too likely to be careless about such nuances.

    jam> Gmane is a Free Public Service.  Like the man said, "If it
    jam> cannot be abused, it is not free".  Such is the world.

    jam> Blame Gmane because bad people use it. :)

No, I blame Gmane because they don't care enough whether it is used
for "bad" purposes.  If I were running Gmane, the subscription process
would only be open to list owners.  Evidently it is not so restricted.
In other words, Gmane is asking those who do _not_ want to be
subscribed to correct any mistakes and bear the burden of any harm
done.

    jam> I have suggested to list owners that sooner or later someone
    jam> will likely subscribe their list to Gmane.  This is because
    jam> it is there and there are folks that like to use it.

This is only possible because Gmane does not follow its stated policy
of checking with list owners.  (I'm taking Brad's word on the stated
policy; I know that they don't check with list owners because they
didn't check for any of those I administer.)

    sjt> the Mailman list admins should be free not to use Gmane, or
    sjt> to require Gmane improvements as a condition of using Gmane,

    jam> It is not as if Lars or his minions are trying to persuade
    jam> anyone in particular to subscribe a particular list.  List
    jam> subscribers are likely sooner or later to try to subscribe a
    jam> list, or persuade a list owner to do so, unless steps are
    jam> taken to prevent it.

Exactly.  Gmane should take steps to prevent non-owners from trying.
I welcome your attempt to persuade the Mailman list admins to allow
Gmane to subscribe and gateway the lists.  I think that should be the
*only* sanctioned way to do it.

    sjt> The fact that Gmane *re*subscribed to Mailman lists in
    sjt> violation of both their own policy and a previous request to
    sjt> cease and desist speaks volumes for the risks and their lack
    sjt> of respect for others' privacy, IMHO.

    jam> Do you really think anyone at Gmane subscribed the mailman-*
    jam> lists?  Don't you imagine that someone, probably a
    jam> subscriber, subscribed the list?

Of course.  Under the legal doctrine of "attractive nuisance", you are
legally responsible for harm caused because you don't warn people
about a hazard caused by property you own.

Gmane is an attractive nuisance, and IMHO IANAL morally responsible
for this kind of "mistake", since their "policy" makes no effective
attempt to discourage it.


-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From chris at westnet.com  Fri Feb 17 14:53:54 2006
From: chris at westnet.com (Christopher X. Candreva)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 08:53:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] auto-rejecting non-member posts
In-Reply-To: <43F5BE16.3070409@perdue.net>
References: <43F5BE16.3070409@perdue.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0602170853110.29416@westnet.com>

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006, Tim Perdue wrote:

> I'm getting flooded under requests to approve spammer posts to 
> lists.gforge.org and wondered if there was a way to auto-reject 
> non-member posts instead of sending them to me for approval.

If you do anything, please discard and not reject.  The from address on spam 
is almost always forged, and we have users getting thousands of rejects, 
bounces, and warnings a day for mail they didn't send.


==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/


From rnissley at gmail.com  Fri Feb 17 16:12:13 2006
From: rnissley at gmail.com (Ronald Nissley)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 10:12:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator permissions or rights
Message-ID: <4ca68c640602170712j559f466ei7816736a51e82623@mail.gmail.com>

I have the same question as a poster of nearly 3 years ago. So far I haven't
found any replies or an answer in a FAQ. You can view the old post at:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2003-May/029009.html

...and here is the body:

"Can I give the list moderator more permissions ?
say i want him to not only be able to approve moderated mail but also to
maintain the user database, subscribe/unsubscribe users in the mass
subscrition section ?

Just a kick in the right direction will be sufficient."

Thank you,

Ron


From lukeshannon at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 17 16:38:17 2006
From: lukeshannon at hotmail.com (Luke Shannon)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:38:17 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <BAY108-F1178C5B0341AE69FFCE01CA3F80@phx.gbl>

Ok, Mailman is looking like the solution to my problems.

To get this going I need to create mailman lists from my existing email 
addresses to vendor mappings in the MySQL DB (I don't want everyone already 
signed up to have to re-subscribe). Is it easy to import a list to Mailman?

Once I have my lists in place I think the following is required:

1. Create a customized welcome message that avoids mentioning how to post to 
the list so new people joining.

2. Restrict the list so only authorized persons can post. My java program 
will be this "person". Not sure how to configure this from a Mailman point 
of view yet.

3. Modify my DB table to map the Mailman send list addresses to a vendors. 
Thus my program sends a mail to that address and Mailman distributes it to 
the members.

Does all this sound reasonable?

Thanks for all the help thus far :-)

Luke


>From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
>To: "Luke Shannon" <lukeshannon at hotmail.com>,mailman-users at python.org
>Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
>Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 13:04:53 -0800
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from mail.value.net ([205.208.202.10]) by 
>bay0-mc6-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 16 
>Feb 2006 13:05:47 -0800
>Received: from msapiro [209.182.169.133] by mail.value.net with ESMTP  
>(SMTPD32-8.15) id A8F722F70152; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 14:04:55 -0700
>X-Message-Info: JGTYoYF78jEHjJx36Oi8+Z3TmmkSEdPtfpLB7P/ybN8=
>X-Mailer: Ultrafunk Popcorn 1.74 (11-May-2005)
>Organization: Not Very Much
>Return-Path: msapiro at value.net
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Feb 2006 21:05:48.0488 (UTC) 
>FILETIME=[C2BD5480:01C6333C]
>
>Luke Shannon wrote:
>
> >Actually it doesn't really need to be in MySQL. As long as Mailman 
>handles
> >the add and removing of addresses to a list and creates an alias for each
> >list, my java program could be tweaked to send mail to all alias rather 
>than
> >a set of email addresses (as it does now).
>
>
>Mailman does not create an alias per se. It does provide a list posting
>address and receives posts at that address and sends them to the list
>members.
>
>If the only purpose of your MySQL database is to provide a list of
>people/addresses to deliver to, you could use Mailman without
>modification and let it maintain it's own membership list and handle
>bounce processing and subscribe/unsubscribe, etc.
>
>See
><http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp>
>for information about setting up announcement (one-way) lists.
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>




From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 17 17:08:52 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 10:08:52 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <BAY108-F1178C5B0341AE69FFCE01CA3F80@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY108-F1178C5B0341AE69FFCE01CA3F80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602170808r19ea0e23xed986dd4cdd615e@mail.gmail.com>

This all sounds fine. It's trivially easy to add a list of email
addresses to a list (there's a textbox on the admin page that you dump
them into and click a button)

Mass-adding the lists is a bit trickier, I think. However, if they're
all basically the same you can generate one configuration file sans
things like the list name, and then programmatically (e.g., with a
shell script, or whatever you prefer) generate all 90 (was it?) if
your lists. I'm not sure where/how to get this file except by (a)
adding a list using the normal method, and then (b) using config_list
-o <file> <listname> to dump its config. Someone else may know a
better way.

As for the bits 1-3:
1. Templates for messages are stored in
$prefix/mailman/templates/<LANG> -- The welcome message is
'subscribeack.txt' -- On my box templates is a symlink to
/etc/mailman, but YMMV.

2. The simplest way to accomlish this seems to be to (a) set
'default_member_moderation' to  1 in the config files as described
above, (b) set member_moderation_action to 2 (discard: e.g., don't
accept, and also don't tell the sender about it), (c) set
generic_nonmember_action to 3 (discard), and (d) add the sender
address for your java program to the 'accept_these_nonmembers' list.

3. Yep, should be fine.


Someone else might be able to come up with better ways to do the
above. I am far from authoritative. :)

- Patrick Bogen

On 2/17/06, Luke Shannon <lukeshannon at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Ok, Mailman is looking like the solution to my problems.
>
> To get this going I need to create mailman lists from my existing email
> addresses to vendor mappings in the MySQL DB (I don't want everyone already
> signed up to have to re-subscribe). Is it easy to import a list to Mailman?
>
> Once I have my lists in place I think the following is required:
>
> 1. Create a customized welcome message that avoids mentioning how to post to
> the list so new people joining.
>
> 2. Restrict the list so only authorized persons can post. My java program
> will be this "person". Not sure how to configure this from a Mailman point
> of view yet.
>
> 3. Modify my DB table to map the Mailman send list addresses to a vendors.
> Thus my program sends a mail to that address and Mailman distributes it to
> the members.
>
> Does all this sound reasonable?
>
> Thanks for all the help thus far :-)
>
> Luke
>
>
> >From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
> >To: "Luke Shannon" <lukeshannon at hotmail.com>,mailman-users at python.org
> >Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
> >Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 13:04:53 -0800
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Received: from mail.value.net ([205.208.202.10]) by
> >bay0-mc6-f3.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 16
> >Feb 2006 13:05:47 -0800
> >Received: from msapiro [209.182.169.133] by mail.value.net with ESMTP
> >(SMTPD32-8.15) id A8F722F70152; Thu, 16 Feb 2006 14:04:55 -0700
> >X-Message-Info: JGTYoYF78jEHjJx36Oi8+Z3TmmkSEdPtfpLB7P/ybN8=
> >X-Mailer: Ultrafunk Popcorn 1.74 (11-May-2005)
> >Organization: Not Very Much
> >Return-Path: msapiro at value.net
> >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Feb 2006 21:05:48.0488 (UTC)
> >FILETIME=[C2BD5480:01C6333C]
> >
> >Luke Shannon wrote:
> >
> > >Actually it doesn't really need to be in MySQL. As long as Mailman
> >handles
> > >the add and removing of addresses to a list and creates an alias for each
> > >list, my java program could be tweaked to send mail to all alias rather
> >than
> > >a set of email addresses (as it does now).
> >
> >
> >Mailman does not create an alias per se. It does provide a list posting
> >address and receives posts at that address and sends them to the list
> >members.
> >
> >If the only purpose of your MySQL database is to provide a list of
> >people/addresses to deliver to, you could use Mailman without
> >modification and let it maintain it's own membership list and handle
> >bounce processing and subscribe/unsubscribe, etc.
> >
> >See
> ><http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp>
> >for information about setting up announcement (one-way) lists.
> >
> >--
> >Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> >San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pdbogen%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
>


--
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 17 17:08:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 08:08:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] IOError in Mailman.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0602161444150.708@chi.spunge.org>
Message-ID: <PC174020060217080854053113b0a509@msapiro>

Andy wrote:
>
>I asked admin to install Mailman, but he has the following problem:
>
>=======
>Jan 01 00:33:33 2006 (27243) IOError reading list extension: [Errno 20]
>Not a directory: '/usr/local/mailman/data/sitelist.cf\
>g/extend.py'
>Jan 01 00:33:33 2006 mailmanctl(27243): Site list is missing:
>/usr/local/mailman/data/sitelist.cfg

There are two issues here:

The first is that the default site list name is 'mailman' If you wish
it to have a different name, you can set that in mm_cfg.py with
something like

MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'other-name'

You definitely do not want this to be a path such as
'/usr/local/mailman/data/sitelist.cfg'. (sitelist.cfg is intended to
be used as input to bin/config_list to configure the site list after
creating it as standard list create defaults are probably not
appropriate for this list.)

The second issue is the initial site list ('mailman' or 'other-name' if
you changed it as above) must be created before running

bin/mailmanctl start

Create the list with bin/newlist or via the web list create interface.
The latter requires setting a list create and/or site password with
bin/mmsitepass.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 17 17:13:55 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 10:13:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] auto-rejecting non-member posts
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0602170853110.29416@westnet.com>
References: <43F5BE16.3070409@perdue.net>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0602170853110.29416@westnet.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602170813n7f61b901g3c60e8fcc671fef5@mail.gmail.com>

In the Administrative Interface, under Privacy Options, refer to the
'generic_nonmember_action' field. Alternatively, if these spam
messages seem to be coming from one place, you might be better off
using 'discard_these_nonmembers'.

- Patrick Bogen

On 2/17/06, Christopher X. Candreva <chris at westnet.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Feb 2006, Tim Perdue wrote:
>
> > I'm getting flooded under requests to approve spammer posts to
> > lists.gforge.org and wondered if there was a way to auto-reject
> > non-member posts instead of sending them to me for approval.
>
> If you do anything, please discard and not reject.  The from address on spam
> is almost always forged, and we have users getting thousands of rejects,
> bounces, and warnings a day for mail they didn't send.
>
>
> ==========================================================
> Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816
> WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
> http://www.westnet.com/
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pdbogen%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


--
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 17 17:16:04 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 10:16:04 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator permissions or rights
In-Reply-To: <4ca68c640602170712j559f466ei7816736a51e82623@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4ca68c640602170712j559f466ei7816736a51e82623@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602170816w29a52adh19e09e3df33b5371@mail.gmail.com>

At least as a partial answer, I do not believe there is a way to
change this without patching the mailman code (at least, not something
obvious that I've seen.)

Someone else may know more/better.

- Patrick Bogen

On 2/17/06, Ronald Nissley <rnissley at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have the same question as a poster of nearly 3 years ago. So far I haven't
> found any replies or an answer in a FAQ. You can view the old post at:
>
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2003-May/029009.html
>
> ...and here is the body:
>
> "Can I give the list moderator more permissions ?
> say i want him to not only be able to approve moderated mail but also to
> maintain the user database, subscribe/unsubscribe users in the mass
> subscrition section ?
>
> Just a kick in the right direction will be sufficient."
>
> Thank you,
>
> Ron
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pdbogen%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


--
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 17 17:24:52 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 08:24:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no confirmation required?
In-Reply-To: <50809.24.90.33.115.1140173810.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <PC174020060217082452048413b0a4d8@msapiro>

kalin mintchev wrote:
>
>the other option is to lose those clients....


Chris and Brad have given the arguments against this and I agree with
them, but if you insist on doing this anyway, see
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-February/049036.html>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 17 17:35:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 08:35:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] auto-rejecting non-member posts
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0602170853110.29416@westnet.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602170835280203660eef07@msapiro>

Christopher X. Candreva wrote:

>On Fri, 17 Feb 2006, Tim Perdue wrote:
>
>> I'm getting flooded under requests to approve spammer posts to 
>> lists.gforge.org and wondered if there was a way to auto-reject 
>> non-member posts instead of sending them to me for approval.
>
>If you do anything, please discard and not reject.  The from address on spam 
>is almost always forged, and we have users getting thousands of rejects, 
>bounces, and warnings a day for mail they didn't send.


Chris is right. Don't 'reject' spam. Discard it.

The option you're looking for is Privacy options...->Sender
filters->generic_nonmember_action.	

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 17 17:44:09 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 08:44:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator permissions or rights
In-Reply-To: <4ca68c640602170712j559f466ei7816736a51e82623@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602170844090078a55c2e77@msapiro>

Ronald Nissley wrote:

>I have the same question as a poster of nearly 3 years ago. So far I haven't
>found any replies or an answer in a FAQ. You can view the old post at:
>
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2003-May/029009.html
>
>...and here is the body:
>
>"Can I give the list moderator more permissions ?
>say i want him to not only be able to approve moderated mail but also to
>maintain the user database, subscribe/unsubscribe users in the mass
>subscrition section ?


I'm sure this has been discussed in other, more recent threads on this
list, but the answer is simple. If you want a moderator to be able to
administer the list, give her the admin password. See FAQs 3.45 and
3.60 for more information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tmz at pobox.com  Fri Feb 17 12:54:35 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 06:54:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no confirmation required?
In-Reply-To: <54597.68.165.89.71.1140139487.squirrel@mail.el.net>
References: <54597.68.165.89.71.1140139487.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <20060217115435.GC3140@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

kalin mintchev wrote:
> so how do i avoid the confirmation? i would like to just send an email to
> the list using a form and the address in the form should be added to the
> list without further processing.
> i also realize that this has been discussed before but i just wanted to
> update it a bit...

As Brad noted, this is definitely discouraged.  However, it is
possible to do with Mailman (the enough-rope-to-hang-yourself-with
policy).

See ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE in Defaults.py

- -- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
Ever notice that even the busiest people are never too busy to tell
you just how busy they are?

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Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkP1uXkmGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1rCFgCfZCW4VYGPD1Bc5fi2DyxZe757MqMAoNSHIdlS
zUS8FA/cnMpH3R/BwuSD
=qctQ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 17 18:05:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 09:05:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00602170808r19ea0e23xed986dd4cdd615e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006021709051600787f47ffde@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote in response to Luke Shannon

>This all sounds fine. It's trivially easy to add a list of email
>addresses to a list (there's a textbox on the admin page that you dump
>them into and click a button)


Or you can upload a file through the same mass subscribe interface or
use the command line bin/add_members tool.


>Mass-adding the lists is a bit trickier, I think. However, if they're
>all basically the same you can generate one configuration file sans
>things like the list name, and then programmatically (e.g., with a
>shell script, or whatever you prefer) generate all 90 (was it?) if
>your lists. I'm not sure where/how to get this file except by (a)
>adding a list using the normal method, and then (b) using config_list
>-o <file> <listname> to dump its config. Someone else may know a
>better way.


You can both add and configure the lists with a shell script or other
process that runs bin/newlist to create the lists and then
bin/config_list to configure them. Patrick's method for generating the
configuration file is probably the easiest.

 
>1. Templates for messages are stored in
>$prefix/mailman/templates/<LANG> -- The welcome message is
>'subscribeack.txt' -- On my box templates is a symlink to
>/etc/mailman, but YMMV.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>
for the recommended way to create customized templates that won't be
overwritten in an update.


>2. The simplest way to accomlish this seems to be to (a) set
>'default_member_moderation' to  1 in the config files as described
>above, (b) set member_moderation_action to 2 (discard: e.g., don't
>accept, and also don't tell the sender about it), (c) set
>generic_nonmember_action to 3 (discard), and (d) add the sender
>address for your java program to the 'accept_these_nonmembers' list.


As I mentioned previously, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp>
for information about setting up announcement lists. Most of this is
covered there in detail.

As for posting, the most secure way is to moderate everyone as covered
in the FAQ and then have the script add an Approved: header to it's
post. The script will need to have the list admin password available
for this, but that shouldn't be a problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lists.james.edwards at gmail.com  Fri Feb 17 18:13:33 2006
From: lists.james.edwards at gmail.com (james edwards)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 10:13:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman errors
Message-ID: <b7f636a60602170913t3136c053w2841831e0f2505cb@mail.gmail.com>

I am new to mailman and am getting these error messages where this job runs.
I just took over this position from a sysadmin
who died suddenly & have not run mailman b4. Can someone please get me an
idea as to what is happening/wrong here ?

james


[Mailman] Cron <mailman at xxxx> /usr/lib/mailman/cron/disabled


Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/disabled", line 220, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/disabled", line 204, in main
    mlist.sendNextNotification(member)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py", line 262, in
sendNextNotification
    msg.send(self)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Message.py", line 233, in send
    self._enqueue(mlist, **_kws)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Message.py", line 244, in _enqueue
    reduced_list_headers = 1,
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 126, in enqueue
    fp = open(tmpfile, 'w')
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/var/spool/mailman/virgin/1140192002.2231879+5b7772b3a7480ee71de81b2b33185c05cf5562b5.pck.tmp'


[root at xxxx root]# rpm -q mailman
mailman-2.1.5-32.fc3
[root at xxxx root]# uname -a
Linux xxxx.nmcourts.com 2.6.12-1.1381_FC3smp #1 SMP Fri Oct 21 04:03:26 EDT
2005 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
[root at xxxx root]# cd /var/spool/
[root at xxxx spool]# ls -la

drwxrwsr-x  11 root    mailman   116 Nov  1 15:49 mailman

[root at xxxx spool]# cd mailman/
[root at xxxx mailman]# ls -la

drwxrws---   2 root   mailman    6 Feb 17 10:09 virgin
[root at xxxx mailman]# cd virgin/
[root at xxxx virgin]# ls -la
total 0
drwxrws---   2 root mailman   6 Feb 17 10:09 .
drwxrwsr-x  11 root mailman 116 Nov  1 15:49 ..
[root at xxxx virgin]#


From cpz at tuunq.com  Fri Feb 17 18:17:17 2006
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 09:17:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
In-Reply-To: <874q2yupa1.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> from "Stephen J.
	Turnbull" at "Feb 17, 2006 09:45:58 pm"
Message-ID: <20060217171717.DEF5D7AE@mail.tuunq.com>


All this discussion is starting to sound like a game of "Who struck John?"
(BTW, before this, I'd never heard of Gmane.)

Taking what everyone's said a face value, Gmane provides a service that
some people like. The admins/owners of the MM list don't like Gmane's 
policies, thus don't want to participate. Seems kind of simple.

For my money ($0.02), there's seldom any utility in gate'ing a mailing
list to a usenet group, they operate in fundementally different ways
and are used in different ways.  For this list, which is fairly low
traffic as lists go and which has a good archive, what features of 
newsgroup distribution enhance it's usability. We already know that
there are propagation delays between usenet and lists. If you want to see
threads, you can use a MUA that does them (I don't bother, no need).

[I also wonder if Gmane is the reason that my spam at this address has
gone up by a factor of 5-7x in the last month....]

z!



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 17 18:46:03 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 09:46:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman errors
In-Reply-To: <b7f636a60602170913t3136c053w2841831e0f2505cb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602170946030984660ef1fb@msapiro>

james edwards wrote:

>I am new to mailman and am getting these error messages where this job runs.
>I just took over this position from a sysadmin
>who died suddenly & have not run mailman b4. Can someone please get me an
>idea as to what is happening/wrong here ?
>
>james
>
>
>[Mailman] Cron <mailman at xxxx> /usr/lib/mailman/cron/disabled
>
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/disabled", line 220, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/disabled", line 204, in main
>    mlist.sendNextNotification(member)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py", line 262, in
>sendNextNotification
>    msg.send(self)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Message.py", line 233, in send
>    self._enqueue(mlist, **_kws)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Message.py", line 244, in _enqueue
>    reduced_list_headers = 1,
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 126, in enqueue
>    fp = open(tmpfile, 'w')
>IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
>'/var/spool/mailman/virgin/1140192002.2231879+5b7772b3a7480ee71de81b2b33185c05cf5562b5.pck.tmp'


It looks like the cron/disabled job is running as user mailman (or is
it running as some other user and just mailing to mailman?), but is
that user in the mailman group? This is the critical thing.


>[root at xxxx root]# rpm -q mailman
>mailman-2.1.5-32.fc3
>[root at xxxx root]# uname -a
>Linux xxxx.nmcourts.com 2.6.12-1.1381_FC3smp #1 SMP Fri Oct 21 04:03:26 EDT
>2005 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux
>[root at xxxx root]# cd /var/spool/
>[root at xxxx spool]# ls -la
>
>drwxrwsr-x  11 root    mailman   116 Nov  1 15:49 mailman
>
>[root at xxxx spool]# cd mailman/
>[root at xxxx mailman]# ls -la
>
>drwxrws---   2 root   mailman    6 Feb 17 10:09 virgin


Is this edited output? If not, where are the other queue direstories?
There should be 9 queue directories named archive, bounces, commands,
in, news, out, retry, shunt and virgin.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 17 19:17:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 10:17:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
In-Reply-To: <877j7uqys9.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006021710172803285a3ad824@msapiro>

Just to try to clear the record here. I noticed in a roughly 24 hour
period beginning yesterday morning and ending this morning, there were
delays of many hours in delivering my email copies of my posts and
some other posts.

These delays were between bag.python.org and servers named
smtp-*.xs4all.nl (which is I think where python.org is hosted). So
missing posts, posts out of sequence etc. from approximately noon GMT
on FEB 16 to about noon GMT on Feb 17 appear to be due to an outgoing
mail issue at xs4all.nl and not due to anyone's particular method of
reading them (unless you read the pipermail archive which I think has
been current throughout).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Feb 17 20:13:55 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 20:13:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] auto-rejecting non-member posts
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0602170853110.29416@westnet.com>
References: <43F5BE16.3070409@perdue.net>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0602170853110.29416@westnet.com>
Message-ID: <p06200705c01bcfa16b89@[10.0.1.211]>

At 8:53 AM -0500 2006-02-17, Christopher X. Candreva wrote:

>  On Fri, 17 Feb 2006, Tim Perdue wrote:
>
>>  I'm getting flooded under requests to approve spammer posts to
>>  lists.gforge.org and wondered if there was a way to auto-reject
>>  non-member posts instead of sending them to me for approval.
>
>  If you do anything, please discard and not reject.  The from address on spam
>  is almost always forged, and we have users getting thousands of rejects,
>  bounces, and warnings a day for mail they didn't send.

	There is a negative to this kind of behaviour.


	FOSDEM is the principal Free/Open Source developers conference in 
Europe, and is hosted every year for a weekend in Brussels.  See 
<http://www.fosdem.org/> for more info.

	The FOSDEM mailing list is set up to silently discard messages 
from all non-subscribers, and no notice was sent out by the FOSDEM 
organizers months ago to this list when they were opening the rooms 
for reservations, although apparently they did have a private list of 
people who were contacted directly.  People are still asking on the 
list if there are rooms available, even though the members of this 
list were recently told that the rooms all filled up months ago.

	The reason they're still asking on the list?  Because they sent 
messages on this subject months ago which were simply discarded 
instead of being bounced, and they were never notified.


	No, you don't want to generate blowback to forged addresses.  But 
simply sending back a message saying that your post has been held for 
moderation is a form of blowback that is being generated today on 
most Mailman-hosted mailing lists.

	I don't see that it's any worse to send back a notice that your 
message was discarded or rejected.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 17 20:25:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 11:25:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator permissions or rights
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602170844090078a55c2e77@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602171125160421d062d015@msapiro>

Ronald Nissley wrote:
>
>Fair enough...the issue is that I want some of the moderators to also have
>access to membership management without access to list functionality.
>Is there a good way to limit what a list admin can do?


You can limit the pages available in the admin interface, but this is
probably not satisfactory for various reasons.

Look at ADMIN_CATEGORIES in Defaults.py. You can redefine this list in
mm_cfg.py and leave pages out. This means there will be no link at the
top of the admin pages, and if you try to go to one by URL, you get
the General page instead.

The issues with doing this are:

If a page is not in the list, no one can go to it, even by URL except
for General Options.

Even if you remove 'general' from the list, the General Options page is
still the default when you go to the admin pages so changes can always
be made on that page.

There is no way like this to remove or limit the "other administrative
activities" links so you can still go to the "Edit the public HTML
pages and text files" link.


>If not, I'll probably
>handle any membership management tasks myself. We run a few smaller lists,
>so it shouldn't be a big deal. My issue with giving the moderators list
>admin access is that because of their roles, they understand only enough
>about computers to get by, and frankly there is a trust factor. Not that I
>think they would intentionally "hose" a list, but I don't really think they
>appreciate how easy it would be to do so.


People in this situation mostly tend to be afraid of screwing up, so if
they have good instructions for the membership tasks they need to do,
they probably won't touch anything else. It's not a guarantee though.


>Maybe my approach should focus more on getting good, consistent backups of
>Mailman configuration and data, and then give them the list admin passwords?


That might be a good solution. If you seldom change a list, you could
just use bin/config_list to dump the configuration every time you
change it, and keep two or three generations of these.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From chris at westnet.com  Fri Feb 17 20:47:41 2006
From: chris at westnet.com (Christopher X. Candreva)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 14:47:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] auto-rejecting non-member posts
In-Reply-To: <p06200705c01bcfa16b89@[10.0.1.211]>
References: <43F5BE16.3070409@perdue.net>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0602170853110.29416@westnet.com>
	<p06200705c01bcfa16b89@[10.0.1.211]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0602171446280.27486@westnet.com>

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006, Brad Knowles wrote:

> 	The reason they're still asking on the list?  Because they sent
> messages on this subject months ago which were simply discarded instead of
> being bounced, and they were never notified.

Then someone should be going through them by hand, or put them through 
SpamAssassin or something else.

> 	No, you don't want to generate blowback to forged addresses.  But
> simply sending back a message saying that your post has been held for
> moderation is a form of blowback that is being generated today on most
> Mailman-hosted mailing lists.

And it has come up here also that SpamAssassin or some such should be in the 
pipeline first. Blindly replying to all of it is bad.




==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/


From brad at python.org  Fri Feb 17 20:23:29 2006
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 20:23:29 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006021710172803285a3ad824@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006021710172803285a3ad824@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06200706c01bd2410921@[10.0.1.211]>

At 10:17 AM -0800 2006-02-17, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  These delays were between bag.python.org and servers named
>  smtp-*.xs4all.nl (which is I think where python.org is hosted). So
>  missing posts, posts out of sequence etc. from approximately noon GMT
>  on FEB 16 to about noon GMT on Feb 17 appear to be due to an outgoing
>  mail issue at xs4all.nl and not due to anyone's particular method of
>  reading them (unless you read the pipermail archive which I think has
>  been current throughout).

	This is correct.  I just found out this morning that they've been 
doing some maintenance on their systems, and depending on the precise 
circumstances of when a particular message came in and what was 
happening at that time, there may have been an attempt to deliver a 
given outgoing message which was temporarily rejected, causing that 
message to be re-queued and retried at a later time.  The issue is 
that we do enough volume that this caused a fairly significant 
backlog of messages, which I believe is now mostly cleared up.

	Of course, I've been away from my computer all day, so I was not 
able to help work on resolving the problem at a time when that would 
have done some good.


	I will tweak our configuration so that we should be more immune 
to these kinds of problems in the future, and we try to guarantee 
that we retry delivery on each and every message faster than we had 
done in the past.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>          Python.org Postmaster Team


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 17 20:57:05 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 11:57:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] auto-rejecting non-member posts
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0602171446280.27486@westnet.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602171157050109d062ced2@msapiro>

Christopher X. Candreva wrote:
>
>And it has come up here also that SpamAssassin or some such should be in the 
>pipeline first. Blindly replying to all of it is bad.

Mailman's SpamDetect module which processes Privacy options...->Spam
filters is first in the pipeline.

Beyond that SpamAssassin and similar tools are better invoked in the
incoming mail (MTA) process before the mail ever gets to Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jonathan at nerds.net  Fri Feb 17 20:32:45 2006
From: jonathan at nerds.net (Jonathan Dill)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 14:32:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] abort mailing in progress?
Message-ID: <43F624DD.9050607@nerds.net>

Hi folks,

I have Mailman 2.1.7 and I have already shut down the queue daemons, but
I am looking how to abort the mailing and stop any more messages from
going out.  The list has about 45,000 subscribers, and it looks like a
fair number of requests haven't been forwarded to postfix yet.

Thanks,
Jonathan




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 17 21:29:07 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 12:29:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] abort mailing in progress?
In-Reply-To: <43F624DD.9050607@nerds.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602171229070828f0a6a6e3@msapiro>

Jonathan Dill wrote:
>
>I have Mailman 2.1.7 and I have already shut down the queue daemons,


How? If you did this normally via mailmanctl, I suspect delivery to
postfix completed.


>but
>I am looking how to abort the mailing and stop any more messages from
>going out.  The list has about 45,000 subscribers, and it looks like a
>fair number of requests haven't been forwarded to postfix yet.


Assuming you're correct and Mailman had not finished delivering to
postfix and OutgoingRunner was actually stopped before delivery
finished, you may have already done all you can do in Mailman.

Delivery started, so OutgoingRunner dequeued the message and SMTPDirect
started processing it. I'm not sure what happens if the delivery is
interrupted by killing the process, but I thing if the message is
still anywhere, it will be in the shunt queue, but you can check the
out and retry queues before restarting mailman to be sure.

My guess is if there is no error log entry about this message, either
delivery completed to postfix, or the message is lost. You might also
check Mailman's smtp and smtp-failure logs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Feb 17 21:07:21 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 21:07:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
In-Reply-To: <87fymiwnu7.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <43F33D7E.1070805@mcswartz.org> <87psloy4hq.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0602151751490.5360@westnet.com>
	<878xscroil.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<87d5hnyeoh.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06200725c01a0d03ea52@[10.0.1.210]>
	<87fymiwnu7.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06200707c01bdaad0278@[10.0.1.211]>

At 2:34 PM +0900 2006-02-17, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>  I don't think that's a useful question to ask.  Open source is not
>  about paybacks.  (Although copyleft clearly is, to many people.)  Open
>  source is about payforwards.  I do something for you, and you do
>  something for somebody else.

	I'll accept that premise, at least for the moment.

>               I think Gmane qualifies on that score: I know a lot of
>  contributors to open source projects who think Gmane makes their work
>  more effective.

	I'm not convinced.  They appear to be running a pretty fast and 
loose operation, without much care being paid to what they're doing 
(or risking) to projects such as ours.  They're not even abiding by 
the rules that they had promised us they would honor, the last time 
we spoke to them -- something like about a year ago.

>  Aye, there's the rub.  I don't much like the rules that they actually
>  play by.  The procedures are biased toward producing mistakes of this
>  kind.  And by the nature of their service they tend to impose their
>  standards for privacy protection etc on the lists that they gateway.
>  The combination is not appealing for Mailman, I'm afraid.

	The combination is not appealing in general, I'm afraid.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Feb 17 21:12:20 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 21:12:20 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
In-Reply-To: <878xsaqyvj.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
References: <43F33D7E.1070805@mcswartz.org> <87psloy4hq.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0602151751490.5360@westnet.com>
	<878xscroil.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<p06200723c019a14bab0f@[10.0.1.210]>
	<878xsaqyvj.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
Message-ID: <p06200708c01bdd80abd7@[10.0.1.211]>

At 1:32 AM -0500 2006-02-17, John A. Martin wrote:

>  You would have one look at a FAQ Wizard after seeing the specific
>  unqualified assertion above?  Last time I looked, the Mailman FAQs
>  1.11 and 1.18 recommend Gmane along with Mail-archive while 1.11 notes
>  that the latter runs Google ads.

	The Mailman FAQ Wizard can be edited by anyone, as you well know. 
If you were to search again for Gmane, you would find that the 
references were considerably less favourable.

	Most recently, it looks like we got FAQ spam from someone pumping 
the nabble.com gateway/archive service, and you damn well better 
believe I'm going to be looking really close at this.

>                                    If you are so proud of the
>  Mail-archive archive, why not include it in the List-Archive: header
>  field?  (It will take a comma separated list, no?)

	Yes, it would take a comma separated list, and I don't believe 
that is allowed by the RFCs.  If you were to check the FAQ Wizard 
again, you would note that mail-archive.com is listed as being the 
"official" gateway/searchable archive service.

>      Brad> Please try checking the Mailman FAQ Wizard before accusing
>      Brad> us of not providing some sort of functionality that you find
>      Brad> to be critical.
>
>  Perhaps it is lost on those who are not accustomed to it, but reading
>  current or archived mail as if it were news is vastly more convenient
>  than reading mail through a web interface, IMHO.

	Perhaps it is lost on those who are not accustomed to it, but 
common courtesy requires that you check the FAQ before you post a 
question that is answered in the FAQ.

	We work very hard to create the best FAQ we can, and try to keep 
things as up-to-date as we can manage, and we don't deserve to be 
abused by people like you for our failure to deliver a 100% perfect 
service -- for free (as in free beer), in our so-called "spare" time, 
no less.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Feb 17 21:24:17 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 21:24:17 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
In-Reply-To: <877j7uqys9.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
References: <43F33D7E.1070805@mcswartz.org> <87psloy4hq.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0602151751490.5360@westnet.com>
	<878xscroil.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<87d5hnyeoh.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<877j7uqys9.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
Message-ID: <p06200709c01bded6fc22@[10.0.1.211]>

At 1:34 AM -0500 2006-02-17, John A. Martin wrote:

>  Lars said, "The mailman people requested that they be removed", see
>  <http://article.gmane.org/gmane.discuss/9291>.

	IIRC, we requested that they be removed over a year ago, the last 
time we ran into this issue -- and when Lars found out that someone 
had nominated these lists for inclusion at Gmane without getting our 
approval, and when he found out that this was done in violation of 
his own policies of checking to make sure that this was approved by 
the listowner.

	So, we come back to this issue again, and what do we find?  Just 
what exactly do you think our response should have been, once we 
discovered that our request to keep our lists out of Gmane had been 
violated a second time?

>  Did you have a similar view of Altavista ten years or so ago?

	Before the existence of the ROBOTS.TXT standard, yes.


	Good web indexing sites will follow the rules that you set out 
for your website, and bad ones don't follow those rules.

	Hell yes, I will definitely work to prohibit bad web indexing 
sites from being able to access any site that I have any influence 
over.

>  List owners (or more accurately, whoever subscribes a list to Gmane)
>  have a number of choices (Posting allowed, Read only, List member only
>  posting, No posting through Gmane, Encrypt addresses, Spam tagging,
>  and more).  ISTM choosing the appropriate posting option and encrypted
>  address would go a long way toward reducing the nuisances.

	Not really.  My problem is only partly with the technical matters 
in question.

	My problem really has more to do with the fact that Gmane is 
repeatedly violating their own policies for proper behaviour, and 
setting up gateways of our mailing lists without our approval, and 
this leads me to seriously question everything they do.

>  Gmane is a Free Public Service.  Like the man said, "If it cannot be
>  abused, it is not free".  Such is the world.
>
>  Blame Gmane because bad people use it. :)

	No, blame Gmane because it is either run poorly or is run in bad 
faith by bad people who pretend to be good.


	There's a saying which goes:

		Don't attribute to malice what can be adequately explained
		by incompetence.

	Well, there's certainly either a fair amount of incompetence 
here, or a good amount of malice.

	You choose which you wish to believe in.

	I choose to believe that this most recent incidence is a result 
of incompetence and not outright malice, but at the end of the day I 
don't see that this really makes a difference.

>  I have suggested to list owners that sooner or later someone will
>  likely subscribe their list to Gmane.  This is because it is there and
>  there are folks that like to use it.  To make the best of it I suggest
>  that list owners might want to subscribe their lists themselves and
>  perhaps get a better place (name) in the Gmane hierarchy but, most
>  importantly, so they can choose the options themselves.  Also they can
>  more easily copy old archives to Gmane.

	Right, so everyone should go down to the local police station and 
get an RFID chip implanted and registered, because sooner or later 
that's what's going to happen anyway.

	Sorry, I'm not buying it.

>  Do you really think anyone at Gmane subscribed the mailman-* lists?
>  Don't you imagine that someone, probably a subscriber, subscribed the
>  list?

	At the end of the day, it doesn't matter.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Feb 17 21:36:45 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 21:36:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
In-Reply-To: <8764neqyq6.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
References: <43F33D7E.1070805@mcswartz.org> <87psloy4hq.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0602151751490.5360@westnet.com>
	<878xscroil.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<87d5hnyeoh.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06200725c01a0d03ea52@[10.0.1.210]>
	<8764neqyq6.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
Message-ID: <p0620070ac01be17a9a8d@[10.0.1.211]>

At 1:35 AM -0500 2006-02-17, John A. Martin wrote:

>  Gmane offers a public service, available to anyone, not just to some
>  "private community".

	It's the community of their users.  It doesn't matter that anyone 
could theoretically join this community, the fact of the matter is 
that most people do not currently belong to this community, and 
therefore the benefit in question is being provided to a very small 
group and the risk is being paid by someone else.

	If you read much in the way of Bruce Schneier's work, you will 
note that this is a "cost externality", which is the same factor 
which leads to the current situation with spam.

>  The fact that folks subscribe lists and use Gmane suggests that folks
>  find it to be a service there that they prefer enough to take the
>  trouble to use it.

	Fair enough.

>                      You may not prefer to read mail as if it were news
>  but there are those that do.

	Granted.

>  List owners may appreciate that Gmane makes their list more attractive
>  but it also provides redundancy and diversity making the list archives
>  mare robust.  Gmane gathers statistics and makes charts that can be
>  displayed on a list's web pages.

	We already have plenty of diversity.  I'm not worried about that.

	If anything, there is a bit too much diversity, which helps to 
guarantee that the community stays fractured and isolated into 
multiple different groups, each focused around their own personal 
gateway/archive/forum site, and there is a resulting cost that is 
paid to the potential greater community which could only be realized 
if it were more organized and centralized.

>  It would seem undeniable that Gmane provides a service that by some
>  measure enhances the mailing lists that it carries.

	In the view of some, yes.

	But I see lots of potential risks here, and I see that most of 
those risks will be paid by us and our members and not Gmane.  As 
such, I don't see an overall benefit being given to us or the greater 
Mailman community, and I am opposed to this so-called "service" that 
Gmane offers.

>  I fail to understand how Gmane can have taken your content without
>  your permission.  Gmane must have complied with whatever you required
>  for subscription to your lists, and their subscription would seem to
>  entitle them to "take" exactly the same content that you send, or make
>  available, to them or any other subscriber.  You speak as if you view
>  what you give any other subscriber as theft when you give it to Gmane.

	We give individuals the right to read messages posted to the 
list, and to post their own questions to the list, along being able 
to read the FAQ and all the associated documentation, but we don't 
give them a right to redistribute this content.

	If this is not made clear in your subscription notice, then I 
will work with the other listowners to try to clarify this.

>  According to Lars, <http://article.gmane.org/gmane.discuss/9291>, he
>  must have made a mistake.  Where did he say he had fixed a procedural
>  problem?

	That would be the procedural problem that he supposedly fixed 
something like a year ago, the last time we ran into this problem 
with Gmane.

>  Have you been as uneasy that Altavista and Google and everyone
>  between might turn a profit in part because they facilitate access to
>  your "not-for profit" material?

	No, because they're simply pointing at the content which I make 
freely available.  They may have cached a local copy, but my copy on 
my site is the one that is primarily referenced.


	As for the rest, the more I discuss this subject, and the more I 
look at what they did to us last time, and what they've done to us 
this time, the more opposed I am to the way that Gmane operates, and 
the more opposed I am to having them gateway or archive any mailing 
lists that I am associated with anywhere.

	You're not likely to convince as a result of continuing to 
harangue me on this topic.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Feb 17 21:38:37 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 21:38:37 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
In-Reply-To: <874q2yqynf.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
References: <43F33D7E.1070805@mcswartz.org>
	<p06200719c019133b6002@[10.0.1.210]>
	<87fymky0pc.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<p0620071dc0191b764dc8@[10.0.1.210]>
	<877j7wroh6.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<p06200724c019a1b3c36c@[10.0.1.210]>
	<874q2yqynf.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
Message-ID: <p0620070bc01be4684a70@[10.0.1.211]>

At 1:37 AM -0500 2006-02-17, John A. Martin wrote:

>  I'm not sure I follow you here.  How do you think Gmane should know _a
>  priori_ whether someone subscribing a list to Gmane is actually acting
>  for the list owner?

	Yes, either acting directly on behalf of the list owner(s), or at 
least with their explicit approval.  No gateway or archive should be 
set up without meeting this minimal test.


	Or are you saying that anyone anywhere should be able to spam you 
for any reason, and have you bear the costs of receiving those 
messages?

>  If you are speaking of the last few days and one time in the past then
>  perhaps you haven't seen
>  <http://article.gmane.org/gmane.discuss/9291>.

	No, I was speaking of the previous incident, not this one.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Feb 17 21:47:37 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 21:47:37 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMane?
In-Reply-To: <873biiqyl6.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
References: <43F33D7E.1070805@mcswartz.org>
	<p06200719c019133b6002@[10.0.1.210]>
	<87fymky0pc.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<p0620071dc0191b764dc8@[10.0.1.210]>
	<877j7wroh6.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<p06200724c019a1b3c36c@[10.0.1.210]>
	<43F40378.1050309@equinephotoart.com>
	<873biiqyl6.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
Message-ID: <p0620070cc01be4d563ea@[10.0.1.211]>

At 1:38 AM -0500 2006-02-17, John A. Martin wrote:

>  Did you consider selecting the option to have Gmane do address
>  obfuscation?  I suppose that would require someone at Gmane to
>  intervene if your list had been subscribed by a third party.

	Considering the rest of the things that Gmane has gotten wrong on 
this most recent incidence, I am not at all convinced that they would 
be capable of adequately meeting all our technical concerns.

	Or, even if they can meet them today, I am not at all convinced 
that they would continue to meet those technical concerns in the 
future -- they could just as easily go back to a previous 
configuration where various undesirable activities were performed or 
allowed.


	They need to prove to me that they can operate by certain minimum 
rules of net.decency, and that they can continue to uphold these 
standards of operation for an extended period of time, before I would 
be willing to consider whether or not they could meet the technical 
requirements.

>  The "without permission" bit is I think a bit misplaced.  Any
>  subscriber can do what they will with list mail they receive.  They
>  can (and do in other venues) put list mail to public and private
>  archives, send it to other lists, and expose it to search engines
>  anywhere.  In fact Gmane removes lists when there objections.  I don't
>  know what more it is reasonable to expect from Gmane.

	And good spammers remove your name from their lists when you 
request that they do so.

	I see very little difference here.

>  If Gmane was such a menace to the lists why was it "a long, long time"
>  before the issue was brought to Lars attention again?

	Dunno.  Why did this ever have to be an issue to begin with?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com  Fri Feb 17 22:48:14 2006
From: CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com (Charles Marcus)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 16:48:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ENOUGH ALREADY !!!!!!!!!! Was Re:  GMane?
In-Reply-To: <p0620070cc01be4d563ea@[10.0.1.211]>
References: <43F33D7E.1070805@mcswartz.org>	<p06200719c019133b6002@[10.0.1.210]>	<87fymky0pc.fsf@athene.jamux.com>	<p0620071dc0191b764dc8@[10.0.1.210]>	<877j7wroh6.fsf@athene.jamux.com>	<p06200724c019a1b3c36c@[10.0.1.210]>	<43F40378.1050309@equinephotoart.com>	<873biiqyl6.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<p0620070cc01be4d563ea@[10.0.1.211]>
Message-ID: <43F6449E.6060405@Media-Brokers.com>

This topic is no longer germaine (pun intended) to the purpose of this 
list, and I am getting really tired of clicking the delete button.

-- 

Best regards,

Charles


From jonathan at nerds.net  Sat Feb 18 05:06:43 2006
From: jonathan at nerds.net (Jonathan Dill)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 23:06:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "disable_dns_lookups = yes" is a very bad idea
Message-ID: <43F69D53.7030505@nerds.net>

Speaking ripe from experience, the Mailman FAQ suggests turning on 
"disable_dns_lookups = yes" to improve the performance of Postfix with 
Mailman, which kind of makes sense.  BUT in Postfix, this disables all 
MX lookups.  So, unless you are going indirectly through a relay that is 
going to handle MX lookups for you, Postfix will begin trying to deliver 
e-mail to stupid addresses.

The symptom was that deferred messages were piling up with "Connection 
refused" errors, at first I thought I was getting blacklisted or 
something.  Finally, I noticed that e-mail to verizon.net for example 
was trying to go to the IN A address verizon.net [206.46.230.37] and not 
the IN MX address relay.verizon.net [206.46.232.11].

I added a note to the Mailman FAQ on this page:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Jonathan


From jonathan at nerds.net  Fri Feb 17 18:32:09 2006
From: jonathan at nerds.net (Jonathan Dill)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 12:32:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] abort mailing in progress?
Message-ID: <43F60899.1050902@nerds.net>

Hi folks,

I have Mailman 2.1.7 and I have already shut down the queue daemons, but 
I am looking how to abort the mailing and stop any more messages from 
going out.  The list has about 45,000 subscribers, and it looks like a 
fair number of requests haven't been forwarded to postfix yet.

Thanks,
Jonathan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Feb 18 12:12:07 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 12:12:07 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "disable_dns_lookups = yes" is a very bad idea
In-Reply-To: <43F69D53.7030505@nerds.net>
References: <43F69D53.7030505@nerds.net>
Message-ID: <p06200701c01cb0ffc3e0@[10.0.1.211]>

At 11:06 PM -0500 2006-02-17, Jonathan Dill wrote:

>  Speaking ripe from experience, the Mailman FAQ suggests turning on
>  "disable_dns_lookups = yes" to improve the performance of Postfix with
>  Mailman, which kind of makes sense.  BUT in Postfix, this disables all
>  MX lookups.  So, unless you are going indirectly through a relay that is
>  going to handle MX lookups for you, Postfix will begin trying to deliver
>  e-mail to stupid addresses.

	Take another look at those entries.  We're talking about running 
a second instance of postfix, on another port, with a special 
configuration (disabling all anti-virus/anti-spam stuff, all DNS 
lookups, etc...), and Mailman talking only to this second instance of 
postfix.

	If this fact is not clear, please feel free to suggest ways that 
the wording could be improved.  Alternatively, feel free to clean up 
or clarify the wording yourself.

>  I added a note to the Mailman FAQ on this page:
>
>  http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

	That's the page for the main FAQ Wizard.  Which specific page 
were you talking about?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Feb 18 12:37:48 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 12:37:48 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "disable_dns_lookups = yes" is a very bad idea
In-Reply-To: <p06200701c01cb0ffc3e0@[10.0.1.211]>
References: <43F69D53.7030505@nerds.net> <p06200701c01cb0ffc3e0@[10.0.1.211]>
Message-ID: <p06200702c01cb76e45d4@[10.0.1.211]>

At 12:12 PM +0100 2006-02-18, Brad Knowles wrote:

>  	Take another look at those entries.  We're talking about running
>  a second instance of postfix, on another port, with a special
>  configuration (disabling all anti-virus/anti-spam stuff, all DNS
>  lookups, etc...), and Mailman talking only to this second instance of
>  postfix.
>
>  	If this fact is not clear, please feel free to suggest ways that
>  the wording could be improved.  Alternatively, feel free to clean up
>  or clarify the wording yourself.

	I've updated FAQ 6.4 to reflect these issues, but did not see any 
other obvious changes from anyone.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From jonathan at nerds.net  Fri Feb 17 19:10:54 2006
From: jonathan at nerds.net (Jonathan Dill)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 13:10:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Goodmail spells doom for mailing lists?
Message-ID: <43F611AE.104@nerds.net>

Has anyone talked about the changes planned by AOL, Yahoo! etc. to 
require "certification" via Goodmail or just be blocked?

http://www.clickz.com/news/article.php/3581301

http://www.goodmailsystems.com/

What will happen to a mailing list such as this one?  Will AOL and 
Yahoo! users just be out of luck or have to get an e-mail account with 
another provider in order to receive mailing lists?

Jonathan



From chris at westnet.com  Sat Feb 18 14:12:18 2006
From: chris at westnet.com (Christopher X. Candreva)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 08:12:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Goodmail spells doom for mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <43F611AE.104@nerds.net>
References: <43F611AE.104@nerds.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0602180810490.14620@westnet.com>

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006, Jonathan Dill wrote:

> Has anyone talked about the changes planned by AOL, Yahoo! etc. to 
> require "certification" via Goodmail or just be blocked?
> 
> http://www.clickz.com/news/article.php/3581301

It's been beaten to death -- at this point I can't recall if here or on 
other lists.  Essentially it means nothing. AOL backpedaled the next day 
saying it wasn't a press release, they aren't requiring anything, blah blah 
blah.



==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Sat Feb 18 15:09:20 2006
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 15:09:20 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "disable_dns_lookups = yes" is a very bad idea
In-Reply-To: <43F69D53.7030505@nerds.net>
References: <43F69D53.7030505@nerds.net>
Message-ID: <20060218140920.GA20848@charite.de>

* Jonathan Dill <jonathan at nerds.net>:
> Speaking ripe from experience, the Mailman FAQ suggests turning on 
> "disable_dns_lookups = yes" to improve the performance of Postfix with 
> Mailman, which kind of makes sense.  BUT in Postfix, this disables all 
> MX lookups.  So, unless you are going indirectly through a relay that is 
> going to handle MX lookups for you, Postfix will begin trying to deliver 
> e-mail to stupid addresses.

Correct.
 
-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                 send no mail to spamtrap at charite.de


From tderouin at gmail.com  Sat Feb 18 17:45:14 2006
From: tderouin at gmail.com (Travis Derouin)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 08:45:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] excessive bounces bug
Message-ID: <631bbe190602180845u418fec0bq7a2cca39b0fc4827@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I run a mailing list for a daily how-to newsletter for eHow.com.
Today, at least a few of us subscribed to the list, including myself,
received a false warning:

"Your membership in the mailing list eHow has been disabled due to
excessive bounces The last bounce received from you was dated
18-Feb-2006.  You will not get any more messages from this list until
you re-enable your membership.  You will receive 3 more reminders like
this before your membership in the list is deleted."

This is definitely in error since I, and other people in our
organization, have been receiving the daily e-mail that is sent to our
list successfully. Can anyone explain why this would happen? I saw
this page http://mayfirst.org/mailman-unsubscribe but it doesn't
explain our situation, our list was created from scratch and people
have been signing up on their own for about the past 8 months.

Currently, to avoid having a mass panic and unsubscription from our
list, the best route I see is to include an apology for this false
warning to our users in our next newsletter and disable automatic
bounce processing to prevent this from happening again.

Travis


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Feb 18 18:34:09 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 09:34:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] excessive bounces bug
In-Reply-To: <631bbe190602180845u418fec0bq7a2cca39b0fc4827@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602180934090406a7b0acdf@msapiro>

Travis Derouin wrote:
>
>I run a mailing list for a daily how-to newsletter for eHow.com.
>Today, at least a few of us subscribed to the list, including myself,
>received a false warning:
>
>"Your membership in the mailing list eHow has been disabled due to
>excessive bounces The last bounce received from you was dated
>18-Feb-2006.  You will not get any more messages from this list until
>you re-enable your membership.  You will receive 3 more reminders like
>this before your membership in the list is deleted."


You say it is a false warning. Does that mean you got the warning but
your subscription delivery wasn't actually disabled, or that delivery
was disabled but shouldn't have been?


>This is definitely in error since I, and other people in our
>organization, have been receiving the daily e-mail that is sent to our
>list successfully. Can anyone explain why this would happen?


Are you the list owner? Do you have the Bounce processing
notifications, particularly bounce_notify_owner_on_disable, set to
Yes? If so, the owner should receive a notice at the same time the
user receives the above notice. The owner's notice will include a copy
of the bounce message that triggered the disable which will help you
see why this is happening.


>Currently, to avoid having a mass panic and unsubscription from our
>list, the best route I see is to include an apology for this false
>warning to our users in our next newsletter and disable automatic
>bounce processing to prevent this from happening again.


Rather than disable bounce processing, you might just alter settings
such as bounce_info_stale_after to be more agressive about discarding
old bounce info.

You can also go through the membership list and see how many members
are disabled by bounce. If you have command line access to your
Mailman, you can use 'bin/list_members --nomail=bybounce' to get this
info.

If you don't have command line access, and the list is too large to
conveniently go through manually on the web, I have a modified version
of the script at
<http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#throughtheweb> which can
screen scrape the web interface and build a "csv" output file
containing the membership data. This modified version will eventually
get to the above site, but in the meantime, you can get it at
<http://veenet.value.net/~msapiro/mailman-subscribers.py> or
<http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/mailman-subscribers.py>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tderouin at gmail.com  Sat Feb 18 18:53:37 2006
From: tderouin at gmail.com (Travis Derouin)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 09:53:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] excessive bounces bug
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602180934090406a7b0acdf@msapiro>
References: <631bbe190602180845u418fec0bq7a2cca39b0fc4827@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200602180934090406a7b0acdf@msapiro>
Message-ID: <631bbe190602180953k1c616144qe0490a210c7714fa@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark,

Thanks for your reply!

On 2/18/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Travis Derouin wrote:
> >
> >I run a mailing list for a daily how-to newsletter for eHow.com.
> >Today, at least a few of us subscribed to the list, including myself,
> >received a false warning:
> >
> >"Your membership in the mailing list eHow has been disabled due to
> >excessive bounces The last bounce received from you was dated
> >18-Feb-2006.  You will not get any more messages from this list until
> >you re-enable your membership.  You will receive 3 more reminders like
> >this before your membership in the list is deleted."
>
>
> You say it is a false warning. Does that mean you got the warning but
> your subscription delivery wasn't actually disabled, or that delivery
> was disabled but shouldn't have been?
>

The delivery was disabled but shouldn't have been.

>
> >This is definitely in error since I, and other people in our
> >organization, have been receiving the daily e-mail that is sent to our
> >list successfully. Can anyone explain why this would happen?
>
>
> Are you the list owner? Do you have the Bounce processing
> notifications, particularly bounce_notify_owner_on_disable, set to
> Yes? If so, the owner should receive a notice at the same time the
> user receives the above notice. The owner's notice will include a copy
> of the bounce message that triggered the disable which will help you
> see why this is happening.

I am the list owner, but there have been at least 2 non-list owner
addresses that have also received this same message, when their
addresses shouldn't have been disabled.  Bounce processing was
enabled,  bounce_notify_owner_on_disable is yes.

>
> >Currently, to avoid having a mass panic and unsubscription from our
> >list, the best route I see is to include an apology for this false
> >warning to our users in our next newsletter and disable automatic
> >bounce processing to prevent this from happening again.
>
>
> Rather than disable bounce processing, you might just alter settings
> such as bounce_info_stale_after to be more agressive about discarding
> old bounce info.

Possibly, but it doesn't make any sense why our e-mail addresses are
bouncing when we are really receiving the e-mail that is sent out, so
I don't have much confidence that this will fix things.

> You can also go through the membership list and see how many members
> are disabled by bounce. If you have command line access to your
> Mailman, you can use 'bin/list_members --nomail=bybounce' to get this
> info.
>

Ok, apparently 1457 members out of 6327 are disabled, this number
seems quite high. 585 of them are gmail addresses, 602 of them are aol
addresses, which accounts for most of the disabled addresses. The rest
of them vary. Does that shed light on what might be happening?

By disabling bounce processing, will this  ignore the previous
disabling of addresses, since the recipients haven't received the
remaining 3 reminders (sounds like a tongue twister)?

Thanks!
Travis


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Feb 18 19:28:17 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 10:28:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] excessive bounces bug
In-Reply-To: <631bbe190602180953k1c616144qe0490a210c7714fa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006021810281700466de0ee5f@msapiro>

Travis Derouin wrote:
>
>I am the list owner, but there have been at least 2 non-list owner
>addresses that have also received this same message, when their
>addresses shouldn't have been disabled.  Bounce processing was
>enabled,  bounce_notify_owner_on_disable is yes.


So did you receive the owner notification of the "bounce action" in
addition to the message you received as a user that your membership
was disabled? You should have, and it would contain a copy of the
actual bounce that Mailman received, and that would perhaps shed some
light on what's happening.


>Possibly, but it doesn't make any sense why our e-mail addresses are
>bouncing when we are really receiving the e-mail that is sent out, so
>I don't have much confidence that this will fix things.


Even if you are receiving every message, it is possible that there is
some misconfigured MTA somewhere that is returning a bounce for mail
that is actually delivered, or possibly some MTA is returning a
"delay" or some other non-bounce that is being misinterpreted as a
bounce. That's why you wan't to see the "bounce action" notification
to see what the bounce actually says.


>Ok, apparently 1457 members out of 6327 are disabled, this number
>seems quite high. 585 of them are gmail addresses, 602 of them are aol
>addresses, which accounts for most of the disabled addresses. The rest
>of them vary. Does that shed light on what might be happening?


Possibly. AOL for sure and possibly gmail return all sorts of funny
notices, but (as I keep repeating) you have to see the owner
notification and see the actual bounce. You should have received 1457
of these notices at one time or another, one for each disabled by
bounce user at the time of the disable.


>By disabling bounce processing, will this  ignore the previous
>disabling of addresses, since the recipients haven't received the
>remaining 3 reminders (sounds like a tongue twister)?


No. Once a member is disabled by bounce, the proces is taken over by
the cron/disabled job which sends the periodic reminders and does the
ultimate removal. You will need to re-enable delivery for these
members if you want them to receive further posts and not be
automatically removed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Feb 18 19:41:57 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 19:41:57 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Goodmail spells doom for mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <43F611AE.104@nerds.net>
References: <43F611AE.104@nerds.net>
Message-ID: <p06200703c01d18db1b9c@[10.0.1.211]>

At 1:10 PM -0500 2006-02-17, Jonathan Dill wrote:

>  Has anyone talked about the changes planned by AOL, Yahoo! etc. to
>  require "certification" via Goodmail or just be blocked?

	We've discussed this subject on this list before.  The EFF has 
published some good stuff, too.  But unless you know of something 
that hasn't already been said before, I'm not sure that I'd continue 
to whip this decaying equine.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From hansen at rc.org  Sun Feb 19 02:05:38 2006
From: hansen at rc.org (Allan Hansen)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 17:05:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator permissions or rights
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602171125160421d062d015@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200602171125160421d062d015@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06230982c01d739fc66f@[134.244.96.80]>

I have this same requirement. I was thinking of writing some CGI
scripts that take commands from the moderator and then apply them
to the lists via the mailman command line interface.

My own reason for this is that some moderators are handling many 
lists, and going into each one with a password is taking too long.
Instead, I'll let them in with a single password, and then have
a dialog that lets them subscribe/unsubscribe/change address for
multiple people/lists at a time.

Allan Hansen

At 11:25 -0800 2/17/06, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>Ronald Nissley wrote:
>>
>>Fair enough...the issue is that I want some of the moderators to also have
>>access to membership management without access to list functionality.
>>Is there a good way to limit what a list admin can do?
>
>
>You can limit the pages available in the admin interface, but this is
>probably not satisfactory for various reasons.
>
>Look at ADMIN_CATEGORIES in Defaults.py. You can redefine this list in
>mm_cfg.py and leave pages out. This means there will be no link at the
>top of the admin pages, and if you try to go to one by URL, you get
>the General page instead.
>
>The issues with doing this are:
>
>If a page is not in the list, no one can go to it, even by URL except
>for General Options.
>
>Even if you remove 'general' from the list, the General Options page is
>still the default when you go to the admin pages so changes can always
>be made on that page.
>
>There is no way like this to remove or limit the "other administrative
>activities" links so you can still go to the "Edit the public HTML
>pages and text files" link.
>
>
>>If not, I'll probably
>>handle any membership management tasks myself. We run a few smaller lists,
>>so it shouldn't be a big deal. My issue with giving the moderators list
>>admin access is that because of their roles, they understand only enough
>>about computers to get by, and frankly there is a trust factor. Not that I
>>think they would intentionally "hose" a list, but I don't really think they
>>appreciate how easy it would be to do so.
>
>
>People in this situation mostly tend to be afraid of screwing up, so if
>they have good instructions for the membership tasks they need to do,
>they probably won't touch anything else. It's not a guarantee though.
>
>
>>Maybe my approach should focus more on getting good, consistent backups of
>>Mailman configuration and data, and then give them the list admin passwords?
>
>
>That might be a good solution. If you seldom change a list, you could
>just use bin/config_list to dump the configuration every time you
>change it, and keep two or three generations of these.
>
>-- 
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-- 
 _________________________________________________________________
| Allan Hansen, Ph.D.                                             |
|    P.O. Box 2423, Cypress, CA 90630, U.S.A.                     |
|                                                                 |
| Work:                              Home:                        |
| Phone: +1-714/952-6015             +1-714/875-8870              |
| Fax:   +1-714/952-6746                                          |
| Email: allan.hansen at ugs.com        hansen at rc.org                |
| WWW:   http://www.ugs.com          http://www.rc.org/           |
|                                                                 |
|_Anything is possible with the right tools and right information_|


From tderouin at gmail.com  Sun Feb 19 02:42:52 2006
From: tderouin at gmail.com (Travis Derouin)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 17:42:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] excessive bounces bug
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006021810281700466de0ee5f@msapiro>
References: <631bbe190602180953k1c616144qe0490a210c7714fa@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006021810281700466de0ee5f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <631bbe190602181742y1416a4fi38c8da792c8b39ab@mail.gmail.com>

> >By disabling bounce processing, will this  ignore the previous
> >disabling of addresses, since the recipients haven't received the
> >remaining 3 reminders (sounds like a tongue twister)?
>
>
> No. Once a member is disabled by bounce, the proces is taken over by
> the cron/disabled job which sends the periodic reminders and does the
> ultimate removal. You will need to re-enable delivery for these
> members if you want them to receive further posts and not be
> automatically removed.

Cool, what's the best way of doing this?

Thanks,
Travis


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb 19 07:28:17 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 22:28:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] excessive bounces bug
In-Reply-To: <631bbe190602181742y1416a4fi38c8da792c8b39ab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060218222817025036fabb2b@msapiro>

Travis Derouin wrote:
>
>Cool, what's the best way of doing this?

Your earlier, rapid response with the number of bouncing members and
their domains leads me to believe you got that info with
bin/list_members, so here's a withlist script to do it.

--cut here-----------------------------------------------------
"""Enable delivery for all bouncing members.

Save as bin/reset_bounce.py

Run via

   bin/withlist -r reset_bounce <listname>

or

   bin/withlist -a -r reset_bounce

to do all lists.
"""

from Mailman import MemberAdaptor

def reset_bounce(mlist):
    if not mlist.Locked():
        mlist.Lock()
    count = 0
    for member in mlist.getMembers():
        if mlist.getDeliveryStatus(member) == MemberAdaptor.BYBOUNCE:
            mlist.setDeliveryStatus(member, MemberAdaptor.ENABLED)
            count += 1
    mlist.Save()
    mlist.Unlock()
    print 'List %s: Reset %d bouncing members.' % (mlist.real_name,
           count)
--cut here------------------------------------------------------

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb 19 07:41:17 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 22:41:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator permissions or rights
In-Reply-To: <p06230982c01d739fc66f@[134.244.96.80]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602182241170484a29218d5@msapiro>

Allan Hansen wrote:

>I have this same requirement. I was thinking of writing some CGI
>scripts that take commands from the moderator and then apply them
>to the lists via the mailman command line interface.
>
>My own reason for this is that some moderators are handling many 
>lists, and going into each one with a password is taking too long.
>Instead, I'll let them in with a single password, and then have
>a dialog that lets them subscribe/unsubscribe/change address for
>multiple people/lists at a time.


Your approach is certainly viable, but here's another idea that may
help in a case like yours.

If the moderator uses a browser like Firefox for example that can
remember passwords for a web site and can open a bookmark folder in
tabs, she can create a bookmark folder containing links to the admindb
pages for all the lists. Then if she selects the folder->open in tabs,
this opens all the lists admindb pages at once, each in its own tab.
Further if the password is saved and "automatically fill and submit"
selected, the login is automatic. The one potential drawback is it
generally requires all the moderator passwords for her lists to be the
same, as passwords are remembered by site, not by page, at least in
Firefox.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lovecreatesbeauty at gmail.com  Sun Feb 19 14:19:22 2006
From: lovecreatesbeauty at gmail.com (lovecreatesbeauty)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 21:19:22 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I've built apache, sendmail,
	mailman successfully, how to make them work?
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006021418465003592d75afb9@msapiro>
References: <a0e7fcb20602141821n31d75fb6p309e8b75b7a5409f@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006021418465003592d75afb9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <a0e7fcb20602190519v285a76e6ke0467b96d6045f4f@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

Now my mail system and Mainman are worse than before. Before, internet
email addresses and local unix user account can receive invitations
from Mailman when I do mass subscription or users (by internet email
or local unix account) subscribe on the Mailman web page.

But now the invitations can be received. I can see the `new ...' and
'deleted ...' logs in /usr/local/mailman/logs/subscriber.

The mail server (Solaris bundled sendmail 8) is still ok. I can send
LAN emails via Outlook Express in Windows.

What was I missing?

By the way, when I create a new list (not site-wide one), Mailman will
create an email address for it, but Mailman doesn't create a real
email address for the list. Do I need to create that corresponding
email address manually?

Thanks in advance.


On 2/15/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> I don't know what you think this is showing other than there is a name
> server at czar.thbs.cn.com (192.168.1.3) that you can access that has
> an address for www-china.l.google.com (alias www.google.com and
> www.l.google.com)
>
> It certainly appears there is a loopback issue in attempting to deliver
> to <jive-list-bounces at 192.168.1.68> from outside.
>
> See
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-February/049296.html>
> where I said
>
> "If you are going to use a lan side IP address as the host_name for the
> list, external users will never be able to post to it."
>
> and
>
> "If you want this list to be able to serve outside users, you have to
> configure the url host and email host as domain names which are
> visible both inside and outside your lan and are routed appropriately."
>
> The Mailman issue here is setting DEFAULT_URL_HOST and
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST appropriately. See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.062.htp>
> and
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp>
> and be sure to take note of running fix_url after changing
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST.
>
> Anything else is a network and or sendmail issue and is outside the
> scope of this list.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Sun Feb 19 17:17:39 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 10:17:39 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I've built apache, sendmail,
	mailman successfully, how to make them work?
In-Reply-To: <a0e7fcb20602190519v285a76e6ke0467b96d6045f4f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a0e7fcb20602141821n31d75fb6p309e8b75b7a5409f@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006021418465003592d75afb9@msapiro>
	<a0e7fcb20602190519v285a76e6ke0467b96d6045f4f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602190817r5dd2928cv750b9ac4a2ecd7e9@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/19/06, lovecreatesbeauty <lovecreatesbeauty at gmail.com> wrote:

> By the way, when I create a new list (not site-wide one), Mailman will
> create an email address for it, but Mailman doesn't create a real
> email address for the list. Do I need to create that corresponding
> email address manually?
>

With sendmail, mailman will report a list of aliases (or you should
run genaliases manually), which you then need to add to /etc/aliases,
and run newaliases to tell sendmail to rescan this file.

--
- Patrick Bogen


From lovecreatesbeauty at gmail.com  Sun Feb 19 17:39:14 2006
From: lovecreatesbeauty at gmail.com (lovecreatesbeauty)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 00:39:14 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I've built apache, sendmail,
	mailman successfully, how to make them work?
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00602190817r5dd2928cv750b9ac4a2ecd7e9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a0e7fcb20602141821n31d75fb6p309e8b75b7a5409f@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006021418465003592d75afb9@msapiro>
	<a0e7fcb20602190519v285a76e6ke0467b96d6045f4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00602190817r5dd2928cv750b9ac4a2ecd7e9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a0e7fcb20602190839o6e35ce3bxf3cf6aed6c3b01d@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, thank you, Patrick.

But I did not see that description in the INSTALL document. Perhaps it
says but I ignored them, it is my fault.

One more question, I did not add one `POP(3)' component into the
Mailman system (i.e. my mail mail sysem including Mailman, sendmail,
apache), but some guys questioned on the absence of the `POP' similar
things.

I think there is no need to install one POP thing for it. 1. the
Mainman document does not says it; 2. Perhaps all mailing list
subscribers subscribe with external mail which does not reside in the
Mail server of my mail system (mentioned in the context).

On 2/20/06, Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2/19/06, lovecreatesbeauty <lovecreatesbeauty at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > By the way, when I create a new list (not site-wide one), Mailman will
> > create an email address for it, but Mailman doesn't create a real
> > email address for the list. Do I need to create that corresponding
> > email address manually?
> >
>
> With sendmail, mailman will report a list of aliases (or you should
> run genaliases manually), which you then need to add to /etc/aliases,
> and run newaliases to tell sendmail to rescan this file.
>
> --
> - Patrick Bogen
>


--
Sincerely,

lovecreatesbeauty,

lovecreatesbeauty at gmail dot com,

http://www.spaces.msn.com/members/lovecreatesbeauty/


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb 19 18:50:14 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 09:50:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I've built apache, sendmail,
	mailman successfully, how to make them work?
In-Reply-To: <a0e7fcb20602190839o6e35ce3bxf3cf6aed6c3b01d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602190950140312521a3d66@msapiro>

lovecreatesbeauty wrote:
>
>I think there is no need to install one POP thing for it. 1. the
>Mainman document does not says it; 2. Perhaps all mailing list
>subscribers subscribe with external mail which does not reside in the
>Mail server of my mail system (mentioned in the context).


You are correct. No one needs POP3 access to local mailboxes on your
server for Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Sun Feb 19 18:52:39 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 11:52:39 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I've built apache, sendmail,
	mailman successfully, how to make them work?
In-Reply-To: <a0e7fcb20602190839o6e35ce3bxf3cf6aed6c3b01d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a0e7fcb20602141821n31d75fb6p309e8b75b7a5409f@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006021418465003592d75afb9@msapiro>
	<a0e7fcb20602190519v285a76e6ke0467b96d6045f4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00602190817r5dd2928cv750b9ac4a2ecd7e9@mail.gmail.com>
	<a0e7fcb20602190839o6e35ce3bxf3cf6aed6c3b01d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602190952t4087a7ccm7baae3f1e70c1ac9@mail.gmail.com>

A POP/POP3 server is not required for mailman. Only if your mail
server also provides mail services to users (e.g., they can have an
email address person at your.server.com) do you need POP3. The same goes
for IMAP, if that comes up.

POP and IMAP are protocols for _retrieving_ mail (as opposed to
_receiving_ or _sending_, which are both handled by your Mail
Transport Agent, which in this case is Sendmail. Mailman does not need
to retrieve mail.)

- Patrick Bogen

On 2/19/06, lovecreatesbeauty <lovecreatesbeauty at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, thank you, Patrick.
>
> But I did not see that description in the INSTALL document. Perhaps it
> says but I ignored them, it is my fault.
>
> One more question, I did not add one `POP(3)' component into the
> Mailman system (i.e. my mail mail sysem including Mailman, sendmail,
> apache), but some guys questioned on the absence of the `POP' similar
> things.
>
> I think there is no need to install one POP thing for it. 1. the
> Mainman document does not says it; 2. Perhaps all mailing list
> subscribers subscribe with external mail which does not reside in the
> Mail server of my mail system (mentioned in the context).
>
> On 2/20/06, Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 2/19/06, lovecreatesbeauty <lovecreatesbeauty at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > By the way, when I create a new list (not site-wide one), Mailman will
> > > create an email address for it, but Mailman doesn't create a real
> > > email address for the list. Do I need to create that corresponding
> > > email address manually?
> > >
> >
> > With sendmail, mailman will report a list of aliases (or you should
> > run genaliases manually), which you then need to add to /etc/aliases,
> > and run newaliases to tell sendmail to rescan this file.
> >
> > --
> > - Patrick Bogen
> >
>
>
> --
> Sincerely,
>
> lovecreatesbeauty,
>
> lovecreatesbeauty at gmail dot com,
>
> http://www.spaces.msn.com/members/lovecreatesbeauty/
>


--
- Patrick Bogen


From lovecreatesbeauty at gmail.com  Sun Feb 19 19:16:21 2006
From: lovecreatesbeauty at gmail.com (lovecreatesbeauty)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 02:16:21 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I've built apache, sendmail,
	mailman successfully, how to make them work?
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00602190952t4087a7ccm7baae3f1e70c1ac9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a0e7fcb20602141821n31d75fb6p309e8b75b7a5409f@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006021418465003592d75afb9@msapiro>
	<a0e7fcb20602190519v285a76e6ke0467b96d6045f4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00602190817r5dd2928cv750b9ac4a2ecd7e9@mail.gmail.com>
	<a0e7fcb20602190839o6e35ce3bxf3cf6aed6c3b01d@mail.gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00602190952t4087a7ccm7baae3f1e70c1ac9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a0e7fcb20602191016n3f7faefev3bcaf9f2b364e2c3@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/20/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> You are correct. No one needs POP3 access to local mailboxes on your
> server for Mailman.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


On 2/20/06, Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:
> A POP/POP3 server is not required for mailman. Only if your mail
> server also provides mail services to users (e.g., they can have an
> email address person at your.server.com) do you need POP3. The same goes
> for IMAP, if that comes up.
>
> POP and IMAP are protocols for _retrieving_ mail (as opposed to
> _receiving_ or _sending_, which are both handled by your Mail
> Transport Agent, which in this case is Sendmail. Mailman does not need
> to retrieve mail.)
>
> - Patrick Bogen

Great thanks to Mark and Patrick.

Perhaps I will lose the last chance, tomorrow morning our customer
will come to the office, and I'm not sure I can fix my Mailman
problems and complete the testing integrate with the business code of
the project before their inspection (sorry for the off-topic).


From th_n2003 at yahoo.com  Sun Feb 19 22:08:18 2006
From: th_n2003 at yahoo.com (th_n2003 at yahoo.com)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 13:08:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to reply to a non-member post
Message-ID: <20060219210818.41692.qmail@web81401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi,

We created a list which only allows members to post.
We allow any users to post question to the list.
We don't want users to be member before they can post
question.
Because users are not member, their posts are held for
approval.
Thing are good to this point. We have what we want.

Here is a problem:
After approved, the emails go to members. When members
reply to the post, they reply to the list but not the
users.
Is there an option in mailman, or may be a quick hack
to the code to allow members when they reply it will
go direct to the users.

Thanks in advance,

Thai Nguyen


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb 19 22:46:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 13:46:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to reply to a non-member post
In-Reply-To: <20060219210818.41692.qmail@web81401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060219134608020320e19d53@msapiro>

Thai Nguyen wrote:
>
>Here is a problem:
>After approved, the emails go to members. When members
>reply to the post, they reply to the list but not the
>users.
>Is there an option in mailman, or may be a quick hack
>to the code to allow members when they reply it will
>go direct to the users.

On the list's General Options under Reply-To: header munging, make sure
that first_strip_reply_to setting is No and reply_goes_to_list setting
is Poster.

What happens depends on the replier's MUA, but for most, 'reply' will
go only to the original poster, and 'reply all' or 'group reply' will
go to the original poster and to the list (assuming the list was not a
Bcc: in the original message).	

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb 19 22:54:02 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 13:54:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to reply to a non-member post
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060219134608020320e19d53@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC17402006021913540204538c78fb07@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>On the list's General Options under Reply-To: header munging, make sure
>that first_strip_reply_to setting is No and reply_goes_to_list setting
>is Poster.

Also, under General list personality, make sure anonymous_list is set
to No.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lovecreatesbeauty at gmail.com  Mon Feb 20 01:15:44 2006
From: lovecreatesbeauty at gmail.com (lovecreatesbeauty)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 08:15:44 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I've built apache, sendmail,
	mailman successfully, how to make them work?
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00602190952t4087a7ccm7baae3f1e70c1ac9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a0e7fcb20602141821n31d75fb6p309e8b75b7a5409f@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006021418465003592d75afb9@msapiro>
	<a0e7fcb20602190519v285a76e6ke0467b96d6045f4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00602190817r5dd2928cv750b9ac4a2ecd7e9@mail.gmail.com>
	<a0e7fcb20602190839o6e35ce3bxf3cf6aed6c3b01d@mail.gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00602190952t4087a7ccm7baae3f1e70c1ac9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a0e7fcb20602191615w4c6cf6bap5628c8ba28e28425@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/20/06, Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 2/19/06, lovecreatesbeauty <lovecreatesbeauty at gmail.com> wrote:
> > By the way, when I create a new list (not site-wide one), Mailman will
> > create an email address for it, but Mailman doesn't create a real
> > email address for the list. Do I need to create that corresponding
> > email address manually?
>
> With sendmail, mailman will report a list of aliases (or you should
> run genaliases manually), which you then need to add to /etc/aliases,
> and run newaliases to tell sendmail to rescan this file.

Where can I find the alias list if it is reported by Mailman automatically?
If it should be done by manual, then I should do the following:
-add aliases by editing /etc/aliases
-run newaliases command

is it right for me?

On 2/20/06, Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:
> A POP/POP3 server is not required for mailman. Only if your mail
> server also provides mail services to users (e.g., they can have an
> email address person at your.server.com) do you need POP3. The same goes
> for IMAP, if that comes up.
>
> POP and IMAP are protocols for _retrieving_ mail (as opposed to
> _receiving_ or _sending_, which are both handled by your Mail
> Transport Agent, which in this case is Sendmail. Mailman does not need
> to retrieve mail.)
>

Some mailling list needs to be presented on web page like this
Mailman-user mailing list. How to retrieve threads and every posts in
one thead?


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Feb 20 01:49:24 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 18:49:24 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I've built apache, sendmail,
	mailman successfully, how to make them work?
In-Reply-To: <a0e7fcb20602191615w4c6cf6bap5628c8ba28e28425@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a0e7fcb20602141821n31d75fb6p309e8b75b7a5409f@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006021418465003592d75afb9@msapiro>
	<a0e7fcb20602190519v285a76e6ke0467b96d6045f4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00602190817r5dd2928cv750b9ac4a2ecd7e9@mail.gmail.com>
	<a0e7fcb20602190839o6e35ce3bxf3cf6aed6c3b01d@mail.gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00602190952t4087a7ccm7baae3f1e70c1ac9@mail.gmail.com>
	<a0e7fcb20602191615w4c6cf6bap5628c8ba28e28425@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602191649t4afb1200q2213cce714941ec2@mail.gmail.com>

There is a command you can run, 'genaliases' which will print out the
list of lines that need to be added to /etc/aliases. This is the same
list that is printed when you add a list, I believe, if mailman is
configured to do so.

On 2/19/06, lovecreatesbeauty <lovecreatesbeauty at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2/20/06, Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 2/19/06, lovecreatesbeauty <lovecreatesbeauty at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > By the way, when I create a new list (not site-wide one), Mailman will
> > > create an email address for it, but Mailman doesn't create a real
> > > email address for the list. Do I need to create that corresponding
> > > email address manually?
> >
> > With sendmail, mailman will report a list of aliases (or you should
> > run genaliases manually), which you then need to add to /etc/aliases,
> > and run newaliases to tell sendmail to rescan this file.
>
> Where can I find the alias list if it is reported by Mailman automatically?
> If it should be done by manual, then I should do the following:
> -add aliases by editing /etc/aliases
> -run newaliases command
>
> is it right for me?
>
> On 2/20/06, Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:
> > A POP/POP3 server is not required for mailman. Only if your mail
> > server also provides mail services to users (e.g., they can have an
> > email address person at your.server.com) do you need POP3. The same goes
> > for IMAP, if that comes up.
> >
> > POP and IMAP are protocols for _retrieving_ mail (as opposed to
> > _receiving_ or _sending_, which are both handled by your Mail
> > Transport Agent, which in this case is Sendmail. Mailman does not need
> > to retrieve mail.)
> >
>
> Some mailling list needs to be presented on web page like this
> Mailman-user mailing list. How to retrieve threads and every posts in
> one thead?
>


--
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 20 01:50:06 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 16:50:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I've built apache, sendmail,
	mailman successfully, how to make them work?
In-Reply-To: <a0e7fcb20602191615w4c6cf6bap5628c8ba28e28425@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060219165006015569f7eec1@msapiro>

lovecreatesbeauty wrote:
>
>Where can I find the alias list if it is reported by Mailman automatically?
>If it should be done by manual, then I should do the following:
>-add aliases by editing /etc/aliases
>-run newaliases command
>
>is it right for me?


Normally, with sendmail, you should have MTA = 'Manual' from
Defaults.py and this should not be changed in mm_cfg.py.

With MTA = 'Manual' whenever you create a list, whether via web or via
bin/newlist, the list of required aliases is displayed for you. The
same information is also emailed to the owner of the site list
(usually mailman-owner at ...), but of course if the proper aliases have
not been installed for this list, that mail can't be delivered.

See the entire thread beginning at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-January/048597.html>
for some examples of what a set of aliases should look like.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hansen at rc.org  Mon Feb 20 04:05:43 2006
From: hansen at rc.org (Allan Hansen)
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 19:05:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator permissions or rights
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602182241170484a29218d5@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200602182241170484a29218d5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06230992c01ee19a6a48@[134.244.96.80]>

Thank you, Mark, for you response and the incredible amount of 
support you provin on this list.

In this case my own preference is also not to give the list
moderator full admin access but to allow subscribes/unsubscribes.
I thus will have to do it with homebrew scripts that provide just
the right access.

Allan

At 22:41 -0800 2/18/06, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>Allan Hansen wrote:
>
>>I have this same requirement. I was thinking of writing some CGI
>>scripts that take commands from the moderator and then apply them
>>to the lists via the mailman command line interface.
>>
>>My own reason for this is that some moderators are handling many 
>>lists, and going into each one with a password is taking too long.
>>Instead, I'll let them in with a single password, and then have
>>a dialog that lets them subscribe/unsubscribe/change address for
>>multiple people/lists at a time.
>
>
>Your approach is certainly viable, but here's another idea that may
>help in a case like yours.
>
>If the moderator uses a browser like Firefox for example that can
>remember passwords for a web site and can open a bookmark folder in
>tabs, she can create a bookmark folder containing links to the admindb
>pages for all the lists. Then if she selects the folder->open in tabs,
>this opens all the lists admindb pages at once, each in its own tab.
>Further if the password is saved and "automatically fill and submit"
>selected, the login is automatic. The one potential drawback is it
>generally requires all the moderator passwords for her lists to be the
>same, as passwords are remembered by site, not by page, at least in
>Firefox.
>
>-- 
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-- 
 _________________________________________________________________
| Allan Hansen, Ph.D.                                             |
|    P.O. Box 2423, Cypress, CA 90630, U.S.A.                     |
|                                                                 |
| Work:                              Home:                        |
| Phone: +1-714/952-6015             +1-714/875-8870              |
| Fax:   +1-714/952-6746                                          |
| Email: allan.hansen at ugs.com        hansen at rc.org                |
| WWW:   http://www.ugs.com          http://www.rc.org/           |
|                                                                 |
|_Anything is possible with the right tools and right information_|


From apap+mailman-users at auth.gr  Mon Feb 20 11:42:14 2006
From: apap+mailman-users at auth.gr (apap+mailman-users at auth.gr)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 12:42:14 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Fwd: problem migrating mailman 2.0.8 to 2.1.7]
Message-ID: <43F99D06.1040800@auth.gr>


I have trouble upgrading an old installation of mailman-2.0.8 into mailman-2.1.7 (Gentoo Linux with Python 2.4.2).
While installing the new version on top of the old, the "update" utility is invoked, but then it fails with
"AttributeError: topics". No list gets migrated. The same error is produced if I use "withlist" with any old list.

Recreating the lists seems to loose too much user configuration, although it is fairly easy to accomplish.
The system currently serves approx 60 mailing lists.

I found relevant discussions on this list, but not any really helpful answers (yet)
How can I overcome the "AttributeError: topics" error? Is it trivial?

Apostolis Papayanakis




----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mailman # update -f # "acc" is a list created with 2.0.8
Upgrading from version 0x20008f0 to 0x20107f1
getting rid of old source files
Updating mailing list: acc
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/update", line 790, in ?
    errors = main()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/update", line 680, in main
    errors = errors + dolist(listname)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/update", line 193, in dolist
    mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__
    self.Load()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 664, in Load
    self.CheckValues()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 746, in CheckValues
    for name, pattern, desc, emptyflag in self.topics:
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 146, in __getattr__
    raise AttributeError, name
AttributeError: topics
alpha mailman # cat logs/error 
Feb 16 16:46:43 2006 (28917) couldn't load config file /usr/local/mailman/lists/acc/config.pck
[Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/acc/config.pck'
Feb 16 16:46:43 2006 (28917) couldn't load config file /usr/local/mailman/lists/acc/config.pck.last
[Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/acc/config.pck.last'
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

mailman # bin/withlist test1 # "test1" is a list created with 2.0.8

Loading list test1 (unlocked)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "bin/withlist", line 297, in ?
    main()
  File "bin/withlist", line 275, in main
    r = do_list(listname, args, func)
  File "bin/withlist", line 194, in do_list
    m = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=LOCK)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 130, in __init__
    self.Load()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 664, in Load
    self.CheckValues()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 746, in CheckValues
    for name, pattern, desc, emptyflag in self.topics:
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 146, in __getattr__
    raise AttributeError, name
AttributeError: topics

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

mailman # bin/withlist mailman # "mailman" is a list created with 2.1.7
Loading list mailman (unlocked)
The variable `m' is the mailman MailList instance
 >>>
Finalizing



From earthlost at gmail.com  Mon Feb 20 15:18:27 2006
From: earthlost at gmail.com (Gustavo Mesquita)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:18:27 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Relationship URL with Lists
Message-ID: <9c65a6df0602200618m7911d23bw3ce03ac79bed8644@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I have created lists using the command:

"./newlist -u myurl.domain.br -q ListName mail at myself.org passwd"

But, when I configure the list using the archive "sitelist.cfg" with the
command:

"./config_list -i sitelist.cfg ListName"

The list loses the reference for URL when it was created!
I need to user the archive "sitelist.cfg" for configure the list and I can't
to lose the reference...

some help!?!?

thanks, sorry my english


From brambi at iam.unibe.ch  Mon Feb 20 16:16:12 2006
From: brambi at iam.unibe.ch (Peppo Brambilla)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 16:16:12 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman drops some information in Content-Type
Message-ID: <43F9DD3C.7050107@iam.unibe.ch>

Hi folks,

some of my users complained about wrapped URIs in mails they have send 
to a mailman lists.
The problem seems to me that mailman is dropping the format and delsp 
parameters (s. http://www.rfc-archive.org/getrfc.php?rfc=3676) which the 
mail clients add to the text/plain format. An example is given below.

So far I haven't found any configuration option which does the trick. Is 
there's a way to keep mailman from dropping these parameters or does 
mailman not support these parameters?

Thanks  -- Peppo

Original header:
---8<---
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Message-Id: <C6A4184D-C15C-4B89-880F-34157BA437D1 at iam.unibe.ch>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
From: Peppo Brambilla <brambi at iam.unibe.ch>
Subject: test
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 14:23:49 +0100
To: test at iam.unibe.ch
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
---8<---

Header produced by mailman:
---8<---
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2)
Message-Id: <C6A4184D-C15C-4B89-880F-34157BA437D1 at iam.unibe.ch>
From: Peppo Brambilla <brambi at iam.unibe.ch>
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 14:23:49 +0100
To: test at iam.unibe.ch
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2)
Subject: [Test] test
X-BeenThere: test at iam.unibe.ch
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7
Precedence: list
List-Id: <test.iam.unibe.ch>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/test>,
<mailto:test-request at iam.unibe.ch?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.iam.unibe.ch/pipermail/test>
List-Help: <mailto:test-request at iam.unibe.ch?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.iam.unibe.ch/mailman/listinfo/test>,
<mailto:test-request at iam.unibe.ch?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Sender: test-bounces at iam.unibe.ch
Errors-To: test-bounces at iam.unibe.ch
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by asterix.unibe.ch 
id k1KDNv8Z011329
---8<---

-- 
Peppo Brambilla
Universitaet Bern, IAM
Neubrueckstr. 10, CH-3012 Bern 
Tel +41 31 631 3310 / Fax +41 31 631 3262


From dave at umiacs.umd.edu  Mon Feb 20 16:47:39 2006
From: dave at umiacs.umd.edu (Dave Stern)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 10:47:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] obscure addresses in archive
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0602201043160.15208@reticle.umiacs.umd.edu>

When one of our lists was first set up, users were subscribed but
not sent their password (and monthly passwd is turned off also). 
Because of this, they couldn't get into the private archive. So 
the listadmin made the list archive public. Now users are complaining 
about spammers  harvesting their addresses.

I could zero or edit the existing archive wiping addresses and leaving
the archive public but wonder if there is some way for future submissions
to have their addresses masked. They're looking for complete anonymity,
not just a change to user_at_host_fqdn.

Can this be done?  Otherwise, I'll just send them their passwords 
and make the archive private



  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-  generated by /dev/dave -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  David Stern                                    University of Maryland
            Institute for Advanced Computer Studies


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 20 18:51:49 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 09:51:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] obscure addresses in archive
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0602201043160.15208@reticle.umiacs.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402006022009514907187c18f0bf@msapiro>

Dave Stern wrote:
>
>I could zero or edit the existing archive wiping addresses and leaving
>the archive public but wonder if there is some way for future submissions
>to have their addresses masked. They're looking for complete anonymity,
>not just a change to user_at_host_fqdn.
>
>Can this be done?  Otherwise, I'll just send them their passwords 
>and make the archive private

Not without code modification. If you haven't put
ARCHIVER_OBSCURES_EMAILADDRS = No in mm_cfg.py, the archive should
already have addresses like user_at_host_fqdn, but that's all we do
(note that we do it in sigs and in message bodies too). If you want
more than this, you have to look at all the places in
Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py where ARCHIVER_OBSCURES_EMAILADDRS is
referenced and modify the obfuscation to do what you want. Then you
would rebuild the archive with 'bin/arch --wipe' to apply your mods to
the existing archive.

I'd go with passwords and a private archive :-)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 20 19:09:44 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 10:09:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Relationship URL with Lists
In-Reply-To: <9c65a6df0602200618m7911d23bw3ce03ac79bed8644@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602201009440343ad2e2fa3@msapiro>

Gustavo Mesquita wrote:
>
>I have created lists using the command:
>
>"./newlist -u myurl.domain.br -q ListName mail at myself.org passwd"
>
>But, when I configure the list using the archive "sitelist.cfg" with the
>command:
>
>"./config_list -i sitelist.cfg ListName"
>
>The list loses the reference for URL when it was created!
>I need to user the archive "sitelist.cfg" for configure the list and I can't
>to lose the reference...

First, the supplied sitelist.cfg is only intended to be used for the
site list ('mailman' list). It is not intended to be used for any
other list. Those should be configured as needed via the web admin
interface.

Second, I don't understand why this would happen anyway, as the
supplied sitelist.cfg does not contain any settings for host_name or
web_page_url, and config_list will only change those attributes which
are set in the input file.

You can verify before and after by running

bin/dumpdb lists/ListName/config.pck

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lists.james.edwards at gmail.com  Mon Feb 20 19:25:18 2006
From: lists.james.edwards at gmail.com (james edwards)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:25:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman errors
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602170946030984660ef1fb@msapiro>
References: <b7f636a60602170913t3136c053w2841831e0f2505cb@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200602170946030984660ef1fb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <b7f636a60602201025o3b71b168lf349c2e386a66a1b@mail.gmail.com>

> It looks like the cron/disabled job is running as user mailman (or is
> it running as some other user and just mailing to mailman?), but is
> that user in the mailman group? This is the critical thing.



user mailman was not in group mailman, I have not seen these errors since I
fixed the group.





>
> Is this edited output? If not, where are the other queue direstories?
> There should be 9 queue directories named archive, bounces, commands,
> in, news, out, retry, shunt and virgin.



Yep.


Thanks,

James


From stillwall at gmail.com  Mon Feb 20 19:38:27 2006
From: stillwall at gmail.com (Jeff Stillwall)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 13:38:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message Approval via CLI
Message-ID: <c3cce6e30602201038j5fd44368j2a8d51d8415598d5@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone;

I'm looking for a way to approve messages being held for moderation
via the shell.  Specifically, using PHP.  I've looked through the
Mailman command-line programs, but nothing jumps out at me as a way to
do this.

Is this going to be possible for me?

Thanks.

--
Jeff Stillwall


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 20 19:57:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 10:57:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Fwd: problem migrating mailman 2.0.8 to 2.1.7]
In-Reply-To: <43F99D06.1040800@auth.gr>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602201057080671ad2e30c7@msapiro>

Apostolis Papayanakis wrote:
>
>I have trouble upgrading an old installation of mailman-2.0.8 into mailman-2.1.7 (Gentoo Linux with Python 2.4.2).
>While installing the new version on top of the old, the "update" utility is invoked, but then it fails with
>"AttributeError: topics". No list gets migrated. The same error is produced if I use "withlist" with any old list.


Something has gone wrong in the original update process. Apparently at
this point, you have 'current version lists' without a topics
attribute. This should not happen.


>Recreating the lists seems to loose too much user configuration, although it is fairly easy to accomplish.
>The system currently serves approx 60 mailing lists.
>
>I found relevant discussions on this list, but not any really helpful answers (yet)
>How can I overcome the "AttributeError: topics" error? Is it trivial?


Try the following:

Go to the lists/listname/ directory for one of your old lists. Then
delete all the config.* files except for the original 2.0.8 config.db.
Then try 'bin/withlist -l listname' on that list.

If that works, that list should then be OK.

You may be able to accomplish the same for all lists by doing the same
file deletion and then running bin/update or 'bin/update -f'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 20 20:13:24 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:13:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message Approval via CLI
In-Reply-To: <c3cce6e30602201038j5fd44368j2a8d51d8415598d5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602201113240015ad2e2e47@msapiro>

Jeff Stillwall wrote:
>
>I'm looking for a way to approve messages being held for moderation
>via the shell.  Specifically, using PHP.  I've looked through the
>Mailman command-line programs, but nothing jumps out at me as a way to
>do this.
>
>Is this going to be possible for me?

There is no command line approve script, but it would be a simple
matter to modify bin/discard to make one. Just change mm_cfg.DISCARD
to mm_cfg.APPROVE in the mlist.HandleRequest call.

You may still need to make other modifications to the way the script
identifies the message(s) to be handled, but it should give you a
start.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From earthlost at gmail.com  Mon Feb 20 20:21:57 2006
From: earthlost at gmail.com (Gustavo Mesquita)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 16:21:57 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Relationship URL with Lists
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602201009440343ad2e2fa3@msapiro>
References: <9c65a6df0602200618m7911d23bw3ce03ac79bed8644@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200602201009440343ad2e2fa3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <9c65a6df0602201121p42b961cej95614f8e35650af7@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/20/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Gustavo Mesquita wrote:
> >
> >I have created lists using the command:
> >
> >"./newlist -u myurl.domain.br -q ListName mail at myself.org passwd"
> >
> >But, when I configure the list using the archive "sitelist.cfg" with the
> >command:
> >
> >"./config_list -i sitelist.cfg ListName"
> >
> >The list loses the reference for URL when it was created!
> >I need to user the archive "sitelist.cfg" for configure the list and I
> can't
> >to lose the reference...
>
> First, the supplied sitelist.cfg is only intended to be used for the
> site list ('mailman' list). It is not intended to be used for any
> other list. Those should be configured as needed via the web admin
> interface.
>
> Second, I don't understand why this would happen anyway, as the
> supplied sitelist.cfg does not contain any settings for host_name or
> web_page_url, and config_list will only change those attributes which
> are set in the input file.
>
> You can verify before and after by running
>
> bin/dumpdb lists/ListName/config.pck
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro < msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> Hi Mark,

I'm using the sitelist.cfg for configure the description of the list and
others things, why I don't find some script for to it make, and I needed to
make a new interface for some feature's mailman.

I modified the sitelist.cfg, setting the host_name=' myurl.domain.br' and
web_page_url='http://myurl.domain.br/mailman/', why I conferred this
parameters, and I set for equals values, but don't obtained good result.

Executing your command, display the config.pck with parameters(host_name and
web_page_url) equals for regular list and corromped list, but it don't
resolve the problem. ;(


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 20 20:52:46 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:52:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman drops some information in Content-Type
In-Reply-To: <43F9DD3C.7050107@iam.unibe.ch>
Message-ID: <PC17402006022011524604682e04b022@msapiro>

Peppo Brambilla wrote:
>
>some of my users complained about wrapped URIs in mails they have send 
>to a mailman lists.
>The problem seems to me that mailman is dropping the format and delsp 
>parameters (s. http://www.rfc-archive.org/getrfc.php?rfc=3676) which the 
>mail clients add to the text/plain format. An example is given below.
>
>So far I haven't found any configuration option which does the trick. Is 
>there's a way to keep mailman from dropping these parameters or does 
>mailman not support these parameters?


There are two issues here. Both Scrubber (replacement of attachments
with hyperlinks) and Decorate (addition of msg_header and/or
msg_footer) manipulate the message content and create new
Content-Type: headers in the process. Content Filtering may do this in
some cases too.

Then, I think the underlying Python email library doesn't support the
'format' and 'delsp' parameters when getting a decoded message part
body from a message.

You might be able to avoid the problem if you set scrub_nondigest to No
and make sure both msg_header and msg_footer are empty, but this may
not be satisfactory for other reasons.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 20 21:13:57 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 12:13:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Relationship URL with Lists
In-Reply-To: <9c65a6df0602201121p42b961cej95614f8e35650af7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602201213570171e3d05d64@msapiro>

Gustavo Mesquita wrote:
>
>On 2/20/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>>
>> Gustavo Mesquita wrote:
>> >
>> >I have created lists using the command:
>> >
>> >"./newlist -u myurl.domain.br -q ListName mail at myself.org passwd"
>> >
>> >But, when I configure the list using the archive "sitelist.cfg" with the
>> >command:
>> >
>> >"./config_list -i sitelist.cfg ListName"
>> >
>> >The list loses the reference for URL when it was created!
>> >I need to user the archive "sitelist.cfg" for configure the list and 
>
>I modified the sitelist.cfg, setting the host_name=' myurl.domain.br' and
>web_page_url='http://myurl.domain.br/mailman/', why I conferred this
>parameters, and I set for equals values, but don't obtained good result.

I hope the space in host_name=' myurl.domain.br' is a typo because it
shouldn't have a space.

I'm not sure I understand what you are doing because of our language
barrier.

In general, you should NOT have either host_name or web_page_url in the
input to bin/config_list.

Are you saying that if you run bin/dumpdb on the
lists/ListName/config.pck before running bin/config_list, it shows the
proper values for host_name and web_page_url, and then you run
bin/config_list with an input that does NOT contain settings for
host_name or web_page_url, and then you run bin/dumpdb again and the
values are changed?

Or are you saying that you run bin/config_list with an input containing

host_name='myurl.domain.br'
and
web_page_url='http://myurl.domain.br/mailman/'

and then you run bin/dumpdb and the values you see are different from
those?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From enyc at evtech.org  Mon Feb 20 23:51:28 2006
From: enyc at evtech.org (enyc at evtech.org)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 14:51:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] obscure addresses in archive
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0602201424140.30323-100000@gateway.sheer.us>

Dave Stern wrote:

> I could zero or edit the existing archive wiping addresses
> and leaving the archive public but wonder if there is some
> way for future submissions to have their addresses masked.
> They're looking for complete anonymity, not just a change
> to user_at_host_fqdn.

(as per next post by Mark\ Sapiro removing email addresses
  completely is possible....)...

I('list administrator') / the system owner who have evtech
  mailing list (discussion list on technical aspects of
  electric vehicles) running on Mailman, would definitely
  like a way to have public list archives with no email
  addresses, while keeping the private archives facility...

The system owner (known as 'Sheer') is interested in writing
  the relevant code/changes as-needed to make this possible
  if practical ;-).

I expect at the moment this involves some mess making a second
  copy of the archive with the email addresses removed??
I notice mailman-users has a separate mailing list archive with
  email addresses hidden... How does that work?

Maybe this sort of facility/framework should be included in
  Mailman 3.x ??

Comments wanted please ;-).


--''enyc''
  <enyc at evtech.org>



From Patrick.Siglin at memphistw.org  Tue Feb 21 00:43:52 2006
From: Patrick.Siglin at memphistw.org (patrick siglin)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 17:43:52 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help
Message-ID: <AF50C156A7C69C4F8DF47F5398F8A961487A@webserve.memphistw.org>

I am needing some help with mailman. First off my webserver is on port
8888 and everything works. I did notice that some of the links do not
have a :8888 on them.

List administrators, you can visit the list admin overview page
<http://list.memphistw.org/cgi-bin/mailman/admin>  to find the
management interface for your list. 

Overview of all list.memphistw.org mailing lists
<http://list.memphistw.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo> 

 

And also the create list page does not have the :8888 on them as well.
Another question is how do you set the global create list password?

 

 

 



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 21 02:12:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 17:12:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help
In-Reply-To: <AF50C156A7C69C4F8DF47F5398F8A961487A@webserve.memphistw.org>
Message-ID: <PC174020060220171250003136faba71@msapiro>

patrick siglin wrote:

>I am needing some help with mailman. First off my webserver is on port
>8888 and everything works. I did notice that some of the links do not
>have a :8888 on them.


You need to put

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s:8888/mailman/'

in mm_cfg.py and restart mailman and then run fix_url to fix your
lists. If you have only the one host, you can just run

bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url


>Another question is how do you set the global create list password?


bin/mmsitepass -c

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tmz at pobox.com  Tue Feb 21 02:26:49 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 20:26:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060220171250003136faba71@msapiro>
References: <AF50C156A7C69C4F8DF47F5398F8A961487A@webserve.memphistw.org>
	<PC174020060220171250003136faba71@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060221012649.GG21278@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> patrick siglin wrote:
>
>>I am needing some help with mailman. First off my webserver is on port
>>8888 and everything works. I did notice that some of the links do not
>>have a :8888 on them.
>
> You need to put
>
> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s:8888/mailman/'
>
> in mm_cfg.py

You might also need or want to set PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL in mm_cfg.py.

See FAQ 4.29, Where can I change a list or the default URL used for
the web interface?

    http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp

- -- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
Every actual state is corrupt. Good men must not obey the laws too
well.
    -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

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From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 21 03:09:23 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 18:09:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] obscure addresses in archive
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0602201424140.30323-100000@gateway.sheer.us>
Message-ID: <PC174020060220180923012536fabab4@msapiro>

enyc at evtech.org wrote:
>
>I expect at the moment this involves some mess making a second
>  copy of the archive with the email addresses removed??
>I notice mailman-users has a separate mailing list archive with
>  email addresses hidden... How does that work?


I assume you are thinking of the mailman-users archive at
mail-archive.com. That is a totally separate from Mailman archive that
works by subscribing it to your list. See
<http://www.mail-archive.com/>.

With mm_cfg.py settings, you can choose to either collect the list
posts in the cumulative listname.mbox/listname.mbox or not and to
maintain an archive or not. The default is to use both and to use
pipermail as the archiver, but you can specify a different 'external'
archiver to be used instead of pipermail.

There is a lot of stuff in the archives of this list, part of which is
about archiving with both pipermail and an external archiver. The
following google search will get all the threads.
http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amail.python.org++inurl%3Amailman-users%2F2005+%22Jean-Philippe+GIOLA+jean-philippe.giola%22

Note that mail-archive.com is not an external archiver in this sense.
It is just an address subscribed to the list.


>Maybe this sort of facility/framework should be included in
>  Mailman 3.x ??


There are several archiving improvements on the list at
<http://www.list.org/todo.html>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kannan.ekanath at gmail.com  Tue Feb 21 16:19:40 2006
From: kannan.ekanath at gmail.com (kannan.ekanath at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:49:40 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to execute a script when incoming mail
	arrives
Message-ID: <65103ce80602210719t4ca55110k2e6d8ea07c1dc875@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
I am using MailMan 1.0.1.

Whenever a mail arrives, i want to execute a script this is in
relation to the integration with mail2forum software. The document
says,

"
Then add the following line to the .forward file of your mailing list's account:
|/path/to/m2f/m2f_import_msgs.sh

"
I am not sure what exactly is meant by this .forward file. I tried
putting the alias in the /etc/aliases file but it doesnot seem to
archive. Can someone tell me as to where exactly this aforementioned
.forward file resides. It has eaten up my brain for last 8 hours
though.



--
Regards,
Kannan Ekanath
-- You aint any expert, if you are - "PROUD"


From kannan.ekanath at gmail.com  Tue Feb 21 16:23:53 2006
From: kannan.ekanath at gmail.com (kannan.ekanath at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:53:53 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to execute a script when incoming mail
	arrives
In-Reply-To: <65103ce80602210719t4ca55110k2e6d8ea07c1dc875@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65103ce80602210719t4ca55110k2e6d8ea07c1dc875@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <65103ce80602210723obe7734fy166d3a9ad5952b13@mail.gmail.com>

I am using MailMan 1.0.1.
>>
I am using MailMan 2.1.6

On 2/21/06, kannan.ekanath at gmail.com <kannan.ekanath at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I am using MailMan 1.0.1.
>
> Whenever a mail arrives, i want to execute a script this is in
> relation to the integration with mail2forum software. The document
> says,
>
> "
> Then add the following line to the .forward file of your mailing list's
> account:
> |/path/to/m2f/m2f_import_msgs.sh
>
> "
> I am not sure what exactly is meant by this .forward file. I tried
> putting the alias in the /etc/aliases file but it doesnot seem to
> archive. Can someone tell me as to where exactly this aforementioned
> .forward file resides. It has eaten up my brain for last 8 hours
> though.
>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Kannan Ekanath
> -- You aint any expert, if you are - "PROUD"
>



--
Regards,
Kannan Ekanath
-- You aint any expert, if you are - "PROUD"


From lovecreatesbeauty at gmail.com  Tue Feb 21 17:13:31 2006
From: lovecreatesbeauty at gmail.com (lovecreatesbeauty)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 00:13:31 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I've built apache, sendmail,
	mailman successfully, how to make them work?
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00602191649t4afb1200q2213cce714941ec2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a0e7fcb20602141821n31d75fb6p309e8b75b7a5409f@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006021418465003592d75afb9@msapiro>
	<a0e7fcb20602190519v285a76e6ke0467b96d6045f4f@mail.gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00602190817r5dd2928cv750b9ac4a2ecd7e9@mail.gmail.com>
	<a0e7fcb20602190839o6e35ce3bxf3cf6aed6c3b01d@mail.gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00602190952t4087a7ccm7baae3f1e70c1ac9@mail.gmail.com>
	<a0e7fcb20602191615w4c6cf6bap5628c8ba28e28425@mail.gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00602191649t4afb1200q2213cce714941ec2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a0e7fcb20602210813y54ff2787l7a8c2e30727a928b@mail.gmail.com>

Hello, tons of thanks to Mark and Patrick. Any subscriber can receive
emails from mailing list after moderator confirm the messages. Now my
Mailman system works fine. Thanks again.

Sincerely,

lovecreatesbeauty,

lovecreatesbeauty at gmail dot com,

http://www.spaces.msn.com/lovecreatesbeauty/


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 21 17:15:42 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 08:15:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to execute a script when incoming
	mailarrives
In-Reply-To: <65103ce80602210723obe7734fy166d3a9ad5952b13@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006022108154205157845670d@msapiro>

kannan.ekanath at gmail.com wrote:

>I am using MailMan 2.1.6


OK


>On 2/21/06, kannan.ekanath at gmail.com <kannan.ekanath at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Whenever a mail arrives, i want to execute a script this is in
>> relation to the integration with mail2forum software. The document
>> says,
>>
>> "
>> Then add the following line to the .forward file of your mailing list's
>> account:
>> |/path/to/m2f/m2f_import_msgs.sh
>>
>> "


This is not really a Mailman question, it is a mail2forum question.
Also, integration of mail2forum with Mailman is really not within the
scope of this list.


>> I am not sure what exactly is meant by this .forward file.


If you're trying to set this up to forward posts to Mailman to
mail2forum, it won't work. The .forward file is like an alias file for
a local mail recipient. I.e. an actual local user who receives mail
addressed to local_user at example.com can create a file named .forward
in his/her home directory, and that file can contain addresses or
pipes to which to deliver the mail instead of delivering it to the
user's local mailbox.

In the Mailman case, incoming mail is already piped to Mailman via MTA
aliases (or some other MTA mechanism), and there is no local mailbox
to which it would be delivered, thus no home directory in which to put
a .forward file.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Feb 21 18:34:55 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 11:34:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to execute a script when incoming
	mailarrives
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006022108154205157845670d@msapiro>
References: <65103ce80602210723obe7734fy166d3a9ad5952b13@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006022108154205157845670d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602210934x76ee6588g8af31ac5c5168a9f@mail.gmail.com>

One possible solution may be to create a local user for this purpose,
subscribe it to all your lists, and then add the .forward line
suggested to that user's .forward in that user's home directory.

There may be a better way... or this may not apply to mail2forum at
all. I don't know what it is.

- Patrick Bogen

On 2/21/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> kannan.ekanath at gmail.com wrote:
>
> >I am using MailMan 2.1.6
>
>
> OK
>
>
> >On 2/21/06, kannan.ekanath at gmail.com <kannan.ekanath at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Whenever a mail arrives, i want to execute a script this is in
> >> relation to the integration with mail2forum software. The document
> >> says,
> >>
> >> "
> >> Then add the following line to the .forward file of your mailing list's
> >> account:
> >> |/path/to/m2f/m2f_import_msgs.sh
> >>
> >> "
>
>
> This is not really a Mailman question, it is a mail2forum question.
> Also, integration of mail2forum with Mailman is really not within the
> scope of this list.
>
>
> >> I am not sure what exactly is meant by this .forward file.
>
>
> If you're trying to set this up to forward posts to Mailman to
> mail2forum, it won't work. The .forward file is like an alias file for
> a local mail recipient. I.e. an actual local user who receives mail
> addressed to local_user at example.com can create a file named .forward
> in his/her home directory, and that file can contain addresses or
> pipes to which to deliver the mail instead of delivering it to the
> user's local mailbox.
>
> In the Mailman case, incoming mail is already piped to Mailman via MTA
> aliases (or some other MTA mechanism), and there is no local mailbox
> to which it would be delivered, thus no home directory in which to put
> a .forward file.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pdbogen%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


--
- Patrick Bogen


From larsenj at sosstaffing.com  Tue Feb 21 19:45:14 2006
From: larsenj at sosstaffing.com (Jonathan Larsen)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 11:45:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] From address format question
Message-ID: <009001c63716$f4056400$8c03310a@hcwan.net>

Why is it that in outlook, when I get an email from mail man that it puts;
listname-bounces at hostname.com on behalf of ME [myemail at hostname.com]

Shouldn't it just be the listname?  Or if this is normal can someone explain
it to me.  I've been left with this duty of figuring out every odd and end
of mailman to tell my managers and they don't like the fact that it does
this.  Not that it matters to any of you but. ya.. hah anyways, any help is
much appreciated.

 

"If i was a rabbit, i would ROLL... ROLL!!!!!"

                                    -Kompressor

 

Jonathan Larsen

The Awesome I.S. Dept

Questions? mail us  <mailto:pc at sosstaffing.com> mailto:pc at sosstaffing.com

Call us 801.257.5754

Fax us 801.366.5702

 



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 21 20:24:05 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 11:24:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] From address format question
In-Reply-To: <009001c63716$f4056400$8c03310a@hcwan.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602211124050250fb3f68bf@msapiro>

Jonathan Larsen wrote:

>Why is it that in outlook, when I get an email from mail man that it puts;
>listname-bounces at hostname.com on behalf of ME [myemail at hostname.com]
>
>Shouldn't it just be the listname?  Or if this is normal can someone explain
>it to me.  I've been left with this duty of figuring out every odd and end
>of mailman to tell my managers and they don't like the fact that it does
>this.


In that case, you should probably familiarize yourself with the FAQ and
the archives of this list.

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/


The answer to your specific question is in FAQ 2.3

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tmz at pobox.com  Tue Feb 21 20:34:31 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 14:34:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] From address format question
In-Reply-To: <009001c63716$f4056400$8c03310a@hcwan.net>
References: <009001c63716$f4056400$8c03310a@hcwan.net>
Message-ID: <20060221193431.GG3715@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Jonathan Larsen wrote:
> Why is it that in outlook, when I get an email from mail man that it puts;
> listname-bounces at hostname.com on behalf of ME [myemail at hostname.com]

See FAQ 2.3: From field displayed by Microsoft Outlook

    http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp

> Shouldn't it just be the listname?  Or if this is normal can someone
> explain it to me.  I've been left with this duty of figuring out
> every odd and end of mailman to tell my managers and they don't like
> the fact that it does this.  Not that it matters to any of you but.
> ya.. hah anyways, any help is much appreciated.

What's the polite way to tell a manger that Outlook is shit and MS
insists on making life difficult for those who use their products?

:-)

- -- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
Remember, there's a big difference between kneeling down and bending
over.
    -- Frank Zappa

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From dandrews at visi.com  Tue Feb 21 21:41:55 2006
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 14:41:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing Disabled List Members
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20060221143953.028a8c90@visi.com>

I was under the impression, which may be wrong, that when a list 
subscription was disabled due to bounces, then a period of time 
passed, without the subscription being renewed by the user, that 
his/her address was automatically removed from the list.

Am I wrong.  This isn't happening with my system.  I run some 80 
lists, many of which are years old, so these things are starting to add up.

Dave



David Andrews and white cane Harry.




From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 21 22:29:52 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 13:29:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing Disabled List Members
In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20060221143953.028a8c90@visi.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006022113295200785f10dd02@msapiro>

David Andrews wrote:

>I was under the impression, which may be wrong, that when a list 
>subscription was disabled due to bounces, then a period of time 
>passed, without the subscription being renewed by the user, that 
>his/her address was automatically removed from the list.
>
>Am I wrong.  This isn't happening with my system.  I run some 80 
>lists, many of which are years old, so these things are starting to add up.


Your impression is correct, BUT it depends on appropriate settings for
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings and
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval, i.e. they should both be
reasonably small numbers - normal defaults are 3 warnings at 7 day
intervals.

It also depends on the user's delivery status being 'disabled by
bounce' and it depends on the daily cron/disabled job being run.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Feb 21 22:55:04 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:55:04 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] From address format question
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602211124050250fb3f68bf@msapiro>
References: <009001c63716$f4056400$8c03310a@hcwan.net>
	<PC1740200602211124050250fb3f68bf@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602211355j5624af7cs972e404407b447d9@mail.gmail.com>

Install Thunderbird and tell him it's a code name for a new Outlook beta.

On 2/21/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Jonathan Larsen wrote:
>
> >Why is it that in outlook, when I get an email from mail man that it puts;
> >listname-bounces at hostname.com on behalf of ME [myemail at hostname.com]
> >
> >Shouldn't it just be the listname?  Or if this is normal can someone explain
> >it to me.  I've been left with this duty of figuring out every odd and end
> >of mailman to tell my managers and they don't like the fact that it does
> >this.
>
>
> In that case, you should probably familiarize yourself with the FAQ and
> the archives of this list.
>
> >Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> >Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>
>
> The answer to your specific question is in FAQ 2.3
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pdbogen%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


--
- Patrick Bogen


From jwblist at loricamail.com  Wed Feb 22 00:21:05 2006
From: jwblist at loricamail.com (John W. Baxter)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:21:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing Disabled List Members
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006022113295200785f10dd02@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C020E061.B245%jwblist@loricamail.com>

On 2/21/06 1:29 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> David Andrews wrote:
> 
>> I was under the impression, which may be wrong, that when a list
>> subscription was disabled due to bounces, then a period of time
>> passed, without the subscription being renewed by the user, that
>> his/her address was automatically removed from the list.
>> 
>> Am I wrong.  This isn't happening with my system.  I run some 80
>> lists, many of which are years old, so these things are starting to add up.
> 
> 
> Your impression is correct, BUT it depends on appropriate settings for
> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings and
> bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval, i.e. they should both be
> reasonably small numbers - normal defaults are 3 warnings at 7 day
> intervals.
> 
> It also depends on the user's delivery status being 'disabled by
> bounce' and it depends on the daily cron/disabled job being run.

And if the lists are "years old" and originated with Mailman 2.0.x, the
addresses disabled for bouncing during the lists' 2.0.x era are not called
out as such, as the disable reason was added in 2.1.  I believe all this is
correct:  it is from memory (of things I no longer care about).

  --John




From thompson at bwcoe.com  Wed Feb 22 00:27:26 2006
From: thompson at bwcoe.com (Matthew Thompson)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 17:27:26 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Displaying message sender
Message-ID: <1140564446.10139.47.camel@risk.bwcoe.com>

I have a mailing list with users subscribed from two particular domains,
call them nice.com and naughty.com.  The security czars are naughty.com
have decided that inbound email with naughty.com in the From address
cannot possibly be legitimate so they silently drop the mail.

The result of this is when users from nice.com send email to the list,
everyone gets the message just fine.  However, when someone from
naughty.com sends a message, only users at nice.com get the message.

One way around this is to make the list anonymous but that creates the
problem that we don't know who sent the message unless everyone always
remembers to mark the messages either in the subject line or at the end
of the message.

I was looking for a way that we could automatically add the sender's
name or email address to the message to make this more fool-proof.  I
would prefer to add it to the subject line to make sorting in the mail
client meaningful but adding it to the message body would be useful too.

BTW, for our setup we are using Mailman 2.1.7 with Exim 4.54 on Gentoo.

Thanks for your help,
Matthew Thompson



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb 22 04:12:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 19:12:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Displaying message sender
In-Reply-To: <1140564446.10139.47.camel@risk.bwcoe.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602211912560750ebec7146@msapiro>

Matthew Thompson wrote:
>
>I was looking for a way that we could automatically add the sender's
>name or email address to the message to make this more fool-proof.  I
>would prefer to add it to the subject line to make sorting in the mail
>client meaningful but adding it to the message body would be useful too.


You will have to modify code to make this happen.

I have several ideas about how this could be done, but perhaps the most
interesting to me is not to make the list anonymous, but to mung the
address in From:. Exactly how to design this depends on what
naughty.com looks at/for.

Does it care about Reply-To:? It would be cool if it didn't. You could
mung the address in From: replacing '@' with ' at ' and '.' with
' dot ' or whatever works. Now, if there's already a Reply-To:, you're
done because reply would go there anyway. If there isn't a Reply-To:,
you add one with the original From: address.

If it cares about Reply-To:, you probably have to strip it (a current
list option), and people will have to edit the addresses in their
replies so this is not nearly as viable.

Also, even in the first case, you'll probably run into MUA's that want
to reply to the To: and the Cc: and the From: and the Reply-To: on a
'reply all', so the From: will have to be edited out in those cases.

The logical place to do all this is Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Feb 22 06:35:20 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 14:35:20 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Displaying message sender
In-Reply-To: <1140564446.10139.47.camel@risk.bwcoe.com> (Matthew Thompson's
	message of "Tue, 21 Feb 2006 17:27:26 -0600")
References: <1140564446.10139.47.camel@risk.bwcoe.com>
Message-ID: <87u0aslzvr.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Matthew" == Matthew Thompson <thompson at bwcoe.com> writes:

    Matthew> I have a mailing list with users subscribed from two
    Matthew> particular domains, call them nice.com and naughty.com.
    Matthew> The security czars are naughty.com have decided that
    Matthew> inbound email with naughty.com in the From address cannot
    Matthew> possibly be legitimate so they silently drop the mail.

"Mr. Foot, meet Mr. Bullet."  Make sure you cash any checks from
naughty.com immediately; one gets the feeling they're not going to be
around for very long.

    Matthew> One way around this is to make the list anonymous but
    Matthew> that creates the problem that we don't know who sent the
    Matthew> message unless everyone always remembers to mark the
    Matthew> messages either in the subject line or at the end of the
    Matthew> message.

Why not simply change all instances of @naughty.com in the author
headers to @naughty.invalid or @censored.invalid or something like
that?  It's easy enough to create a custom Handler to do that kind of
thing, and should be safe, too.  Since you're going to have to modify
Mailman in any case, I believe, this is the least intrusive way to do
it.

If the answer is "that would work for us", then I'll look at doing the
coding and documenting the installation process, unless somebody beats
me to it.  :-)  Gotta run....

-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From kannan.ekanath at gmail.com  Wed Feb 22 06:35:48 2006
From: kannan.ekanath at gmail.com (kannan.ekanath at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 11:05:48 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to execute a script when incoming
	mailarrives
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00602210934x76ee6588g8af31ac5c5168a9f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65103ce80602210723obe7734fy166d3a9ad5952b13@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006022108154205157845670d@msapiro>
	<6fbe3da00602210934x76ee6588g8af31ac5c5168a9f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <65103ce80602212135u15a347e2tfd3adbc24ef4baf3@mail.gmail.com>

Well i think you can ignore the mail2forum part. Here is my
requirement. When a mail comes to a dummy alias i want some script to
be executed (a simple .sh file with execute permissions being
provided)

I added the following line /etc/aliases file,
forumtest-dummymember: "|/home/kannan/scripts/somescript.sh"

But the thing is it doesnt seem to call the script. Any idea why? If
the script got executed it creates a dummy file in the directory. (In
this case the file wasnt created).

Any thoughts?
Regards,
kannan


On 2/21/06, Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:
> One possible solution may be to create a local user for this purpose,
> subscribe it to all your lists, and then add the .forward line
> suggested to that user's .forward in that user's home directory.
>
> There may be a better way... or this may not apply to mail2forum at
> all. I don't know what it is.
>
> - Patrick Bogen
>
> On 2/21/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> > kannan.ekanath at gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > >I am using MailMan 2.1.6
> >
> >
> > OK
> >
> >
> > >On 2/21/06, kannan.ekanath at gmail.com <kannan.ekanath at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Whenever a mail arrives, i want to execute a script this is in
> > >> relation to the integration with mail2forum software. The document
> > >> says,
> > >>
> > >> "
> > >> Then add the following line to the .forward file of your mailing list's
> > >> account:
> > >> |/path/to/m2f/m2f_import_msgs.sh
> > >>
> > >> "
> >
> >
> > This is not really a Mailman question, it is a mail2forum question.
> > Also, integration of mail2forum with Mailman is really not within the
> > scope of this list.
> >
> >
> > >> I am not sure what exactly is meant by this .forward file.
> >
> >
> > If you're trying to set this up to forward posts to Mailman to
> > mail2forum, it won't work. The .forward file is like an alias file for
> > a local mail recipient. I.e. an actual local user who receives mail
> > addressed to local_user at example.com can create a file named .forward
> > in his/her home directory, and that file can contain addresses or
> > pipes to which to deliver the mail instead of delivering it to the
> > user's local mailbox.
> >
> > In the Mailman case, incoming mail is already piped to Mailman via MTA
> > aliases (or some other MTA mechanism), and there is no local mailbox
> > to which it would be delivered, thus no home directory in which to put
> > a .forward file.
> >
> > --
> > Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> > San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users mailing list
> > Mailman-Users at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> > Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pdbogen%40gmail.com
> >
> > Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> >
>
>
> --
> - Patrick Bogen
>



--
Regards,
Kannan Ekanath
-- You aint any expert, if you are - "PROUD"


From shieldfire at gmail.com  Wed Feb 22 06:38:54 2006
From: shieldfire at gmail.com (Martin S)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 06:38:54 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-member posting
Message-ID: <7ad4c500602212138k7a7c5f5bp@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I looked through the faq but didn't the answer - perhaps I'm missing what's
too obvious.
Anyway - how do I make an existing list open for non-members to post to.
(I'm doing a list for tournament managers which should also act as a
"helpdesk").


Regards,

Martin S


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb 22 07:00:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 22:00:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to execute a script when incoming
	mailarrives
In-Reply-To: <65103ce80602212135u15a347e2tfd3adbc24ef4baf3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006022122004307180fabd579@msapiro>

kannan.ekanath at gmail.com wrote:
>
>I added the following line /etc/aliases file,
>forumtest-dummymember: "|/home/kannan/scripts/somescript.sh"
>
>But the thing is it doesnt seem to call the script. Any idea why? If
>the script got executed it creates a dummy file in the directory. (In
>this case the file wasnt created).


Did you run postalias or newaliases or whatever the appropriate command
is for your MTA to update the aliases.db file?

What happens to the mail sent to forumtest-dummymember?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb 22 07:04:53 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 22:04:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-member posting
In-Reply-To: <7ad4c500602212138k7a7c5f5bp@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602212204530734cae295b3@msapiro>

Martin S wrote:
>
>Anyway - how do I make an existing list open for non-members to post to.


Privacy options...->Sender filters->generic_nonmember_action = Accept


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From oliver at samera.com.py  Wed Feb 22 12:35:36 2006
From: oliver at samera.com.py (Oliver Schulze L.)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 08:35:36 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam check and bounced email's body
Message-ID: <43FC4C88.1000105@samera.com.py>

Hi,
I use spamassassin to filter spam. So I configured a rule in mailman 
that detect
the string "{Spam}" in the subject of the email and then defer the email.

The problem is that mailman sent to owner of the list the email that is 
spam with
the body of the email. So, spamassassin detects the body and mark the email
as spam, and mailman differ the mail sended to the owner.

My question is:
how can I configure mailman to not sent the body of the email in the 
notification
to the owner of the list?

Many thanks
Oliver

-- 
Oliver Schulze L.
<oliver at samera.com.py>



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Feb 22 16:56:14 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 07:56:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam check and bounced email's body
In-Reply-To: <43FC4C88.1000105@samera.com.py>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602220756140109880e479b@msapiro>

Oliver Schulze L. wrote:
>
>My question is:
>how can I configure mailman to not sent the body of the email in the 
>notification
>to the owner of the list?


You can turn off admin_immed_notify so the admin/moderator only gets a
daily summary of held posts. There's no other option for it.

If the daily summary is not sufficient, you could increase the
frequency of the cron/checkdbs job in mailman's crontab.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Feb 22 17:33:40 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 10:33:40 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to execute a script when incoming
	mailarrives
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006022122004307180fabd579@msapiro>
References: <65103ce80602212135u15a347e2tfd3adbc24ef4baf3@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006022122004307180fabd579@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602220833o423209f3od801d980f4d60ffa@mail.gmail.com>

Also, in some configurations (e.g., sendmail with smrsh) you may need
to tweak your security options to make sure that somescript.sh is
allowed to be executed in this way.
This page talks about setting up smrsh. You can probably ignore the
bit about reconfiguring sendmail, since we're assuming it's already
set up that way: http://www.faqs.org/docs/securing/chap22sec182.html

- Patrick Bogen

On 2/22/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> kannan.ekanath at gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >I added the following line /etc/aliases file,
> >forumtest-dummymember: "|/home/kannan/scripts/somescript.sh"
> >
> >But the thing is it doesnt seem to call the script. Any idea why? If
> >the script got executed it creates a dummy file in the directory. (In
> >this case the file wasnt created).
>
>
> Did you run postalias or newaliases or whatever the appropriate command
> is for your MTA to update the aliases.db file?
>
> What happens to the mail sent to forumtest-dummymember?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


--
- Patrick Bogen


From thompson at bwcoe.com  Wed Feb 22 17:59:50 2006
From: thompson at bwcoe.com (Matthew Thompson)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 10:59:50 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Displaying message sender
In-Reply-To: <87u0aslzvr.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <1140564446.10139.47.camel@risk.bwcoe.com>
	<87u0aslzvr.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <1140627590.10143.60.camel@risk.bwcoe.com>

I haven't had time to sit and poke at the offending mail server to see
if they react to the reply to: or the from: header.  I'll have to mess
with that this weekend when traffic is lower on lour lists.

On Wed, 2006-02-22 at 14:35 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> >>>>> "Matthew" == Matthew Thompson <thompson at bwcoe.com> writes:
> 
>     Matthew> I have a mailing list with users subscribed from two
>     Matthew> particular domains, call them nice.com and naughty.com.
>     Matthew> The security czars are naughty.com have decided that
>     Matthew> inbound email with naughty.com in the From address cannot
>     Matthew> possibly be legitimate so they silently drop the mail.
> 
> "Mr. Foot, meet Mr. Bullet."  Make sure you cash any checks from
> naughty.com immediately; one gets the feeling they're not going to be
> around for very long.
> 
I can't believe they are doing this either but unless someone invents a
machine capable of perpetual motion in the next couple of years, I'll
probably still have a job. ;)

>     Matthew> One way around this is to make the list anonymous but
>     Matthew> that creates the problem that we don't know who sent the
>     Matthew> message unless everyone always remembers to mark the
>     Matthew> messages either in the subject line or at the end of the
>     Matthew> message.
> 
> Why not simply change all instances of @naughty.com in the author
> headers to @naughty.invalid or @censored.invalid or something like
> that?  It's easy enough to create a custom Handler to do that kind of
> thing, and should be safe, too.  Since you're going to have to modify
> Mailman in any case, I believe, this is the least intrusive way to do
> it.
> 
This would probably work for us.  I was throwing this out to the list to
see what other approaches existed than the ideas I had.  It didn't occur
to me to just obscure the domain name.  I'd be happy to help out with
either the coding or testing if you need the help.


Thanks for the great suggestions all.

-Matt



From Patrick.Siglin at memphistw.org  Wed Feb 22 19:06:30 2006
From: Patrick.Siglin at memphistw.org (patrick siglin)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 12:06:30 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] email problems
Message-ID: <AF50C156A7C69C4F8DF47F5398F8A9613BE1@webserve.memphistw.org>

ok I have my exchange server and another email server on the inside "bbs.memphistw.org" I can recieve mail on the bbs.memphistw.org but can not seem to get mail on "memphistw.org". Mail posts fine and every other user gets the email including the bbs.memphistw.org server. I do get emails from mailman about join requests and the welcome message but that is all. Any ideas? No spam blocker on the server so that shouldn't be it.


From oliver at samera.com.py  Wed Feb 22 19:40:38 2006
From: oliver at samera.com.py (Oliver Schulze L.)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:40:38 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam check and bounced email's body
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602220756140109880e479b@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200602220756140109880e479b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43FCB026.8030609@samera.com.py>

Hi Mark,
ok, I will try to find a solution in my spam filter.
Will not scan if the email is relayed by mailman.

But still will have problem if the owner's mail server have a spam solution.
Maybe my mailman email server can get black listed for sending spam :(

I think its a nice feature request to ask, "do not send body of the 
deffered email" ;)

Thanks
Oliver

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Oliver Schulze L. wrote:
>   
>> My question is:
>> how can I configure mailman to not sent the body of the email in the 
>> notification
>> to the owner of the list?
>>     
>
>
> You can turn off admin_immed_notify so the admin/moderator only gets a
> daily summary of held posts. There's no other option for it.
>
> If the daily summary is not sufficient, you could increase the
> frequency of the cron/checkdbs job in mailman's crontab.
>
>   

-- 
Oliver Schulze L.
<oliver at samera.com.py>



From jwblist at loricamail.com  Wed Feb 22 22:34:15 2006
From: jwblist at loricamail.com (John W. Baxter)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 13:34:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Displaying message sender
In-Reply-To: <1140564446.10139.47.camel@risk.bwcoe.com>
Message-ID: <C02218D7.B28F%jwblist@loricamail.com>

On 2/21/06 3:27 PM, "Matthew Thompson" <thompson at bwcoe.com> wrote:

> I have a mailing list with users subscribed from two particular domains,
> call them nice.com and naughty.com.  The security czars are naughty.com
> have decided that inbound email with naughty.com in the From address
> cannot possibly be legitimate so they silently drop the mail.
> 
> The result of this is when users from nice.com send email to the list,
> everyone gets the message just fine.  However, when someone from
> naughty.com sends a message, only users at nice.com get the message.
> 
> One way around this is to make the list anonymous but that creates the
> problem that we don't know who sent the message unless everyone always
> remembers to mark the messages either in the subject line or at the end
> of the message.

You know your institutional requirements and I don't.  However, I don't
think I would do anything to accommodate naughty.com's users.  Let them use
an address elsewhere for dealing with your mailing list.

  --John the Churl




From jwblist at loricamail.com  Wed Feb 22 22:48:40 2006
From: jwblist at loricamail.com (John W. Baxter)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 13:48:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Displaying message sender
In-Reply-To: <1140564446.10139.47.camel@risk.bwcoe.com>
Message-ID: <C0221C38.B292%jwblist@loricamail.com>

On 2/21/06 3:27 PM, "Matthew Thompson" <thompson at bwcoe.com> wrote:

> I have a mailing list with users subscribed from two particular domains,
> call them nice.com and naughty.com.

By the way, almost any domain whose name one invents for purposes like this
exists.

  nice.com has existed since 1992 (or earlier), and naughty.com since 1996
(or earlier).

  --John

[Not to mention at.com since 1993 and atdot.com since 1998.]




From gibbsjj at gmail.com  Wed Feb 22 23:44:37 2006
From: gibbsjj at gmail.com (Josh Gibbs)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 14:44:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] LDAP, Qmail, and Mailman...
Message-ID: <8a6545c20602221444x6c6f5a26vd7e34f5b4cf0dc05@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings,

I am embarking on my first install of Mailman, and after reviewing the
Installation Manual I am wondering if it will work with my particular
setup:

Fedora Core R4, using OpenLDAP 2.2.23, and Qmail.

I did not set this machine up, and I am uncertain what complications
LDAP is going to create.  Any words of advice would be much
appreciated!  Thanks.

-Josh


From mcnutt at utk.edu  Wed Feb 22 23:28:14 2006
From: mcnutt at utk.edu (mcnutt)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 17:28:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to Un-Moderate List
Message-ID: <UTK-CLSBPcZi71mrvoG0000009c@utk-cls.UTKCLS>

One of my discussion list administrators is suddenly having to approve each
post as it comes through her list.  I am unable to discover why.  Can anyone
offer me any insight?

Bill McNutt
IT Administrator, UT Center for Literacy Studies
http://cls.coe.utk.edu





From mcnutt at utk.edu  Wed Feb 22 23:20:07 2006
From: mcnutt at utk.edu (mcnutt)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 17:20:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Suddenly Moderated
Message-ID: <UTK-CLSDCZx4FR0rmTI0000009b@utk-cls.UTKCLS>

One of my list owners is complaining that her list is suddenly requiring her
to approve all postings to the list.  I can't find any place where it says
the list is moderated.  Can anyone suggest where I ought to be looking?

Bill McNutt
IT Administrator, UT Center for Literacy Studies
http://cls.coe.utk.edu





From chris.a.adams at state.or.us  Thu Feb 23 01:40:19 2006
From: chris.a.adams at state.or.us (Christopher Adams)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 16:40:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] emailaddr variable in newlist.txt file
Message-ID: <43FD0473.9070608@state.or.us>

I have been tinkering with this problem for a long time. At one time, I 
got some assistance from Mark Sapiro, but I was not able to resolve the 
problem.

The newlist.txt file has the variable %(emailaddr)s. When a new list is 
created, the message that is sent to the list owner includes the literal 
text %(emailaddr)s, rather than the actual list address.

I would have thought that this would work by default after installation, 
but it does not.

-- 


Christopher Adams
Library Systems Analyst
Oregon State Library
503-378-5031
503-932-1004 (general support line)
chris.a.adams at state.or.us



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb 23 03:49:42 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 18:49:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Suddenly Moderated
In-Reply-To: <UTK-CLSDCZx4FR0rmTI0000009b@utk-cls.UTKCLS>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602221849420187ebd87ae5@msapiro>

mcnutt wrote:

>One of my list owners is complaining that her list is suddenly requiring her
>to approve all postings to the list.  I can't find any place where it says
>the list is moderated.  Can anyone suggest where I ought to be looking?


There is "Emergency moderation of all list traffic." Yes/No on the
General Options page, but this is probably not it because owners don't
get individual notifications fo messages held for "emergency".

You need to look at Mailman's "vette" log or at the held message in the
admindb interface or at the list owner notification and see what the
reason is for the message being held.

If the reason is "post to moderated list" the post is from a member
whose 'moderate' flag ('mod' on the admin Membership List page) is
set. If everyone is suddenly moderated, probably the list owner
inadvertently "Set everyone's moderation bit, including those members
not currently visible" On (Additional tasks on the Membership list
page).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb 23 05:09:04 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 20:09:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] emailaddr variable in newlist.txt file
In-Reply-To: <43FD0473.9070608@state.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC174020060222200904023414a9c16e@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:

>I have been tinkering with this problem for a long time. At one time, I 
>got some assistance from Mark Sapiro, but I was not able to resolve the 
>problem.


I would have thought we'd got this all resolved in the thread that
begins at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-January/042107.html>,
but I guess not.


>The newlist.txt file has the variable %(emailaddr)s. When a new list is 
>created, the message that is sent to the list owner includes the literal 
>text %(emailaddr)s, rather than the actual list address.


This is because the only names of this type that are replaced in this
template are the ones in the default template. Namely,

listname
password
admin_url
listinfo_url
requestaddr and
siteowner

>I would have thought that this would work by default after installation, 
>but it does not.

If you want %(emailaddr)s in the template to be replaced by the list
posting address, you need to modify Mailman/Cgi/Create.py as follows:

Find this in the module

    # And send the notice to the list owner.
    if notify:
        siteowner = Utils.get_site_email(mlist.host_name, 'owner')
        text = Utils.maketext(
            'newlist.txt',
            {'listname'    : listname,
             'password'    : password,
             'admin_url'   : mlist.GetScriptURL('admin', absolute=1),
             'listinfo_url': mlist.GetScriptURL('listinfo', absolute=1),
             'requestaddr' : mlist.GetRequestEmail(),
             'siteowner'   : siteowner,
             }, mlist=mlist)

and add one line to it so it becomes

    # And send the notice to the list owner.
    if notify:
        siteowner = Utils.get_site_email(mlist.host_name, 'owner')
        text = Utils.maketext(
            'newlist.txt',
            {'listname'    : listname,
             'password'    : password,
             'admin_url'   : mlist.GetScriptURL('admin', absolute=1),
             'listinfo_url': mlist.GetScriptURL('listinfo', absolute=1),
             'requestaddr' : mlist.GetRequestEmail(),
             'emailaddr'   : mlist.GetListEmail(),
             'siteowner'   : siteowner,
             }, mlist=mlist)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Feb 23 05:48:00 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 13:48:00 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Displaying message sender
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602211912560750ebec7146@msapiro> (Mark Sapiro's
	message of "Tue, 21 Feb 2006 19:12:56 -0800")
References: <PC1740200602211912560750ebec7146@msapiro>
Message-ID: <87ek1un0jj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Mark" == Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> writes:

    Mark> The logical place to do all this is
    Mark> Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py.

I don't understand this recommendation.  Why not use a separate
Handler in either the global pipeline (if it's an organizational
installation) or the list-specific pipeline?

-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From dandrews at visi.com  Thu Feb 23 06:01:16 2006
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 23:01:16 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Protecting Administrators
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060222225648.02767b50@visi.com>

I run about 80 lists via Mailman.  My ISP uses a spam filtering program called PostIni.  All mail goes through it, even though individual users may turn it off -- which I have.

Apparently, things can happen that cause PostIni to block mail to a user, it seems to happen at times of heavy spam, but the ISP doesn't seem to know much more, and they say the Postini folks won't talk about it, they consider it to be proprietary info.

Anyway, this is a long way to say that even though I am Administrator, I occasionally get disabled on one or more lists.  With so many lists I occasionally miss the message that Mailman sends.  Then I am off the list, and don't know it.

Is there any way to protect a list subscription, despite bounces?  

David Andrews



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb 23 06:09:15 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:09:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Displaying message sender
In-Reply-To: <87ek1un0jj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC17402006022221091505156dba8af2@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>>>>>> "Mark" == Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> writes:
>
>    Mark> The logical place to do all this is
>    Mark> Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py.
>
>I don't understand this recommendation.  Why not use a separate
>Handler in either the global pipeline (if it's an organizational
>installation) or the list-specific pipeline?

Actually, you are correct Stephen. I was thinking in terms of existing
handlers, but a separate handler that could be inserted in the global
pipeline in mm_cfg.py or in a list specific pipeline is a much better
idea since it would persist across updates.

Thanks for the correction.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb 23 06:23:34 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:23:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Protecting Administrators
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060222225648.02767b50@visi.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060222212334053123863975@msapiro>

David Andrews wrote:
>
>Apparently, things can happen that cause PostIni to block mail to a user, it seems to happen at times of heavy spam, but the ISP doesn't seem to know much more, and they say the Postini folks won't talk about it, they consider it to be proprietary info.
>
>Anyway, this is a long way to say that even though I am Administrator, I occasionally get disabled on one or more lists.  With so many lists I occasionally miss the message that Mailman sends.  Then I am off the list, and don't know it.
>
>Is there any way to protect a list subscription, despite bounces?  

Not short of turning off bounce processing.

But, if you're sure Postini is the problem, you can bypass it for your
list mail. For example, the MX records for value.net go to various
psmtp.com (Postini) servers, but Postini has to deliver somewhere
which in my case is mail.value.net, so any mail addressed to me at
mail.value.net bypasses Postini completely.

If you look at the Received: headers in your incoming mail, the one at
the top (last one added) will give the name of the server that your
mail was finally delivered to. Just use that host name in your email
address to completely bypass Postini.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Feb 23 06:39:39 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 23:39:39 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam check and bounced email's body
In-Reply-To: <43FCB026.8030609@samera.com.py>
References: <PC1740200602220756140109880e479b@msapiro>
	<43FCB026.8030609@samera.com.py>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602222139u4cea1989wb9a354863c33b042@mail.gmail.com>

If you're using sendmail, I have a solution that I implemented that
seems to work quite well:

Put together a script (e.g., an init script in /etc/init.d, on Debian)
that will run the following on startup:

sendmail OPTIONS="-bd -ODeliveryMode=defer
-ODaemonPortOptions=Name=MSA,Port=3276,M=E,Addr=127.0.0.1

Also, you'll need to adjust your mailman config so that it delivers to
the new port (3276, above). In mm_cfg.py, add:

SMTPPORT = 3276

(If my or your mail client chopped that up, it should be all on one line)

This basically starts a sendmail daemon that listens only to
localhost, and bypasses all filters and stuff to stick whatever it
receives directly in the outgoing queue. If the mail to the admin is
being delivered locally, this means it won't be scanned by
spamassassin at any time.

This also significantly decreased the time it took for a message to
get out to a list, versus having mailman SMTP to the normal sendmail.
Which is understandable, since it means that 90 messages weren't
getting scanned by clamav and spamassassin anymore. :)

- Patrick Bogen

On 2/22/06, Oliver Schulze L. <oliver at samera.com.py> wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> ok, I will try to find a solution in my spam filter.
> Will not scan if the email is relayed by mailman.
>
> But still will have problem if the owner's mail server have a spam solution.
> Maybe my mailman email server can get black listed for sending spam :(
>
> I think its a nice feature request to ask, "do not send body of the
> deffered email" ;)
>
> Thanks
> Oliver
>
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
> > Oliver Schulze L. wrote:
> >
> >> My question is:
> >> how can I configure mailman to not sent the body of the email in the
> >> notification
> >> to the owner of the list?
> >>
> >
> >
> > You can turn off admin_immed_notify so the admin/moderator only gets a
> > daily summary of held posts. There's no other option for it.
> >
> > If the daily summary is not sufficient, you could increase the
> > frequency of the cron/checkdbs job in mailman's crontab.
> >
> >
>
> --
> Oliver Schulze L.
> <oliver at samera.com.py>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pdbogen%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


--
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Feb 23 06:41:47 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 23:41:47 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] email problems
In-Reply-To: <AF50C156A7C69C4F8DF47F5398F8A9613BE1@webserve.memphistw.org>
References: <AF50C156A7C69C4F8DF47F5398F8A9613BE1@webserve.memphistw.org>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602222141j20ccbcd6nc58dbc7695bf11b0@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry, not quite clear on some points here.

Are you talking about receiving mail from the outside? (I.e., from
other SMTP servers on the internet)

If so, bbs.memphistw.org is accessible from the outside? (SMTP, once again)

Lastly, does the MX for the domain memphistw.org point at
bbs.memphistw.org? (This is a DNS issue, if you aren't already aware.
The MX record tells mail servers where mail for some random
[sub]domain needs to go. E.g., the MX for physics.tamu.edu is
mail.physics.tamu.edu)

- Patrick Bogen

On 2/22/06, patrick siglin <Patrick.Siglin at memphistw.org> wrote:
> ok I have my exchange server and another email server on the inside "bbs.memphistw.org" I can recieve mail on the bbs.memphistw.org but can not seem to get mail on "memphistw.org". Mail posts fine and every other user gets the email including the bbs.memphistw.org server. I do get emails from mailman about join requests and the welcome message but that is all. Any ideas? No spam blocker on the server so that shouldn't be it.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pdbogen%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


--
- Patrick Bogen


From kannan.ekanath at gmail.com  Thu Feb 23 08:26:39 2006
From: kannan.ekanath at gmail.com (kannan.ekanath at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 12:56:39 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to execute a script when incoming
	mailarrives
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00602220833o423209f3od801d980f4d60ffa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65103ce80602212135u15a347e2tfd3adbc24ef4baf3@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006022122004307180fabd579@msapiro>
	<6fbe3da00602220833o423209f3od801d980f4d60ffa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <65103ce80602222326v478e72e9l331b20a18d9f07b3@mail.gmail.com>

"
Did you run postalias or newaliases or whatever the appropriate command
is for your MTA to update the aliases.db file?
"

Thanks Mark. I think i had written the restart sendmail in a script
and that had not got executed. Restarting sendmail works fine.

Thanks a lot guys :)


On 2/22/06, Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:
> Also, in some configurations (e.g., sendmail with smrsh) you may need
> to tweak your security options to make sure that somescript.sh is
> allowed to be executed in this way.
> This page talks about setting up smrsh. You can probably ignore the
> bit about reconfiguring sendmail, since we're assuming it's already
> set up that way: http://www.faqs.org/docs/securing/chap22sec182.html
>
> - Patrick Bogen
>
> On 2/22/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> > kannan.ekanath at gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > >I added the following line /etc/aliases file,
> > >forumtest-dummymember: "|/home/kannan/scripts/somescript.sh"
> > >
> > >But the thing is it doesnt seem to call the script. Any idea why? If
> > >the script got executed it creates a dummy file in the directory. (In
> > >this case the file wasnt created).
> >
> >
> > Did you run postalias or newaliases or whatever the appropriate command
> > is for your MTA to update the aliases.db file?
> >
> > What happens to the mail sent to forumtest-dummymember?
> >
> > --
> > Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> > San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> - Patrick Bogen
>


--
Regards,
Kannan Ekanath
-- You aint any expert, if you are - "PROUD"


From kannan.ekanath at gmail.com  Thu Feb 23 08:30:58 2006
From: kannan.ekanath at gmail.com (kannan.ekanath at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 13:00:58 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stripping the reply to quotes
Message-ID: <65103ce80602222330g7e6b5627i1eecec57d070f9c4@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
I am using mailman

I notice that when a mail comes to a user who is a part of a list and
he replies almost all mail clients do a bottom quote / top quote.
Although this is fine, from the mail client perspective, i would like
Mailman to strip this bottom/top quote when sending emails.

This is because am causing mailman emails to put in a common forum and
hence when the bottom quote appears again and again it becomes very
repetitive.

Is there an option in mailman where we can stript just the bottom /
top quotes? (although mail clients use top and bottom quotes).

I am fine with the loss of "previous thread information"


--
Regards,
Kannan Ekanath
-- You aint any expert, if you are - "PROUD"


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Feb 23 10:35:35 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 10:35:35 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam check and bounced email's body
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00602222139u4cea1989wb9a354863c33b042@mail.gmail.com>
References: <PC1740200602220756140109880e479b@msapiro>
	<43FCB026.8030609@samera.com.py>
	<6fbe3da00602222139u4cea1989wb9a354863c33b042@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p0620071dc02331f60d55@[10.0.1.211]>

At 11:39 PM -0600 2006-02-22, Patrick Bogen wrote:

>  This basically starts a sendmail daemon that listens only to
>  localhost, and bypasses all filters and stuff to stick whatever it
>  receives directly in the outgoing queue. If the mail to the admin is
>  being delivered locally, this means it won't be scanned by
>  spamassassin at any time.

	This is precisely the same sort of thing that we recommend for 
people who are running postfix, and is discussed in the FAQ.  If this 
isn't mentioned in the FAQ for people using sendmail, then what we 
should probably do is add this as part of a separate generic MTA 
performance enhancement page and then point all the MTA-specific 
pages to that one, as well as adding their own particular details.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in  Thu Feb 23 12:56:02 2006
From: nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in (Kabilan L)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 17:26:02 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What is Details for acceptable_aliases?
Message-ID: <20060223114615.M67824@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>

Hai!!!
what is the use of the 
                       Privacy options...
                                 Recipient filters

Details for acceptable_aliases

What should be added to in the text box of acceptable_aliases.

Thanking You ALL

Kabilan.L
Department of Electrical Engineering
IIT Madras
Chennai - 600 036
Tamil Nadu, INDIA


"The secret to winning football games is working more as a team, less as
individuals. I play not my 11 best, but my best 11." ->Knute Rockne



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb 23 16:25:29 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 07:25:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What is Details for acceptable_aliases?
In-Reply-To: <20060223114615.M67824@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602230725290656ee0ff3ad@msapiro>

Kabilan L wrote:

>what is the use of the 
>                       Privacy options...
>                                 Recipient filters
>
>Details for acceptable_aliases
>
>What should be added to in the text box of acceptable_aliases.

It's pretty much described on that page and the details pages if you
follow the links, but here's a summary.

If require_explicit_destination is Yes, a post will be held if the list
posting address is not in the To: or Cc: headers of the post.
acceptable_aliases is a list of additional addresses (or regexps that
match addresses) that are acceptable in To: or Cc: as alternatives to
the list posting address.

This is primarily intended for sub-lists of umbrella lists. I.e., if
list2 at example.com is a member of list1 at example.com, and
require_explicit_destination is Yes for list2, a post to
list1 at example.com will be held by list2 at example.com for 'implicit
destination' unless list1 at example.com is an acceptable aliase for
list2 at example.com.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Feb 23 16:35:02 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 07:35:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stripping the reply to quotes
In-Reply-To: <65103ce80602222330g7e6b5627i1eecec57d070f9c4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006022307350204686e8213f6@msapiro>

kannan.ekanath at gmail.com wrote:
>
>Is there an option in mailman where we can stript just the bottom /
>top quotes? (although mail clients use top and bottom quotes).


Not exactly. The option is to moderate the offending users and to
return their posts to them until they learn how to properly quote in
replies.

You could refer them to <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-posting> or
any of several other articles on the web for backup.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mcnutt at utk.edu  Thu Feb 23 17:45:19 2006
From: mcnutt at utk.edu (mcnutt)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 11:45:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Suddenly Moderated
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602221849420187ebd87ae5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <UTK-CLSmz6UuEhjJ8uT000000b4@utk-cls.UTKCLS>

Okay, stupid question:  where is the list normally set to be "moderated?"

Bill McNutt
IT Administrator, UT Center for Literacy Studies
http://cls.coe.utk.edu


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 9:50 PM
To: mcnutt at utk.edu; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] List Suddenly Moderated

mcnutt wrote:

>One of my list owners is complaining that her list is suddenly requiring
her
>to approve all postings to the list.  I can't find any place where it says
>the list is moderated.  Can anyone suggest where I ought to be looking?


There is "Emergency moderation of all list traffic." Yes/No on the
General Options page, but this is probably not it because owners don't
get individual notifications fo messages held for "emergency".

You need to look at Mailman's "vette" log or at the held message in the
admindb interface or at the list owner notification and see what the
reason is for the message being held.

If the reason is "post to moderated list" the post is from a member
whose 'moderate' flag ('mod' on the admin Membership List page) is
set. If everyone is suddenly moderated, probably the list owner
inadvertently "Set everyone's moderation bit, including those members
not currently visible" On (Additional tasks on the Membership list
page).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Feb 23 19:09:53 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 12:09:53 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] email problems
In-Reply-To: <AF50C156A7C69C4F8DF47F5398F8A96130F3@webserve.memphistw.org>
References: <AF50C156A7C69C4F8DF47F5398F8A96130F3@webserve.memphistw.org>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602231009p25a176dfj97d443150845fa4c@mail.gmail.com>

I'm still not quite clear on the exact nature of the problem. Can you
provide a specific example?

You say that you receive subscription notices, but do not get posts?
What machine is this on?

- Patrick Bogen

p.s., please include the mailman-users list in your replies. If your
client has a 'reply to all' function, that should take care of it.

On 2/23/06, patrick siglin <Patrick.Siglin at memphistw.org> wrote:
> Sorry. I all that. Bbs.memphistw.org and list.memphistw.org both sit on
> the inside isolated from the inet. Mail.memphistw.org is the front end
> that talks to the internet. I receive subscription notices just fine
> from the list server. I do not get posts for some reason. I tested my
> hotmail and yahoo account and I can send and receive from the list all
> day.  Here is a picture.
>
>                             Inet
>
>                           exchange
>                           /     \
>                         Mailman bbs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patrick Bogen [mailto:pdbogen at gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 11:42 PM
> To: patrick siglin
> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] email problems
>
> Sorry, not quite clear on some points here.
>
> Are you talking about receiving mail from the outside? (I.e., from
> other SMTP servers on the internet)
>
> If so, bbs.memphistw.org is accessible from the outside? (SMTP, once
> again)
>
> Lastly, does the MX for the domain memphistw.org point at
> bbs.memphistw.org? (This is a DNS issue, if you aren't already aware.
> The MX record tells mail servers where mail for some random
> [sub]domain needs to go. E.g., the MX for physics.tamu.edu is
> mail.physics.tamu.edu)
>
> - Patrick Bogen
>
> On 2/22/06, patrick siglin <Patrick.Siglin at memphistw.org> wrote:
> > ok I have my exchange server and another email server on the inside
> "bbs.memphistw.org" I can recieve mail on the bbs.memphistw.org but can
> not seem to get mail on "memphistw.org". Mail posts fine and every other
> user gets the email including the bbs.memphistw.org server. I do get
> emails from mailman about join requests and the welcome message but that
> is all. Any ideas? No spam blocker on the server so that shouldn't be
> it.
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users mailing list
> > Mailman-Users at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> > Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> > Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pdbogen%40gmail.com
> >
> > Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> >
>
>
> --
> - Patrick Bogen
>


--
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Feb 23 19:12:02 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 12:12:02 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spam check and bounced email's body
In-Reply-To: <p0620071dc02331f60d55@10.0.1.211>
References: <PC1740200602220756140109880e479b@msapiro>
	<43FCB026.8030609@samera.com.py>
	<6fbe3da00602222139u4cea1989wb9a354863c33b042@mail.gmail.com>
	<p0620071dc02331f60d55@10.0.1.211>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602231012p4089afc3g30d7b9620f77223a@mail.gmail.com>

It probably is in the FAQ. I promise I didn't come up with this; I got
it from somewhere else. :)

On 2/23/06, Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote:
> At 11:39 PM -0600 2006-02-22, Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
> >  This basically starts a sendmail daemon that listens only to
> >  localhost, and bypasses all filters and stuff to stick whatever it
> >  receives directly in the outgoing queue. If the mail to the admin is
> >  being delivered locally, this means it won't be scanned by
> >  spamassassin at any time.
>
>         This is precisely the same sort of thing that we recommend for
> people who are running postfix, and is discussed in the FAQ.  If this
> isn't mentioned in the FAQ for people using sendmail, then what we
> should probably do is add this as part of a separate generic MTA
> performance enhancement page and then point all the MTA-specific
> pages to that one, as well as adding their own particular details.
>
> --
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
>
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
>
>      -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>      Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
>
>   LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.
>


--
- Patrick Bogen


From jwblist at loricamail.com  Thu Feb 23 19:21:43 2006
From: jwblist at loricamail.com (John W. Baxter)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 10:21:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Protecting Administrators
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060222212334053123863975@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C0233D37.B2CA%jwblist@loricamail.com>

On 2/22/06 9:23 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> If you look at the Received: headers in your incoming mail, the one at
> the top (last one added) will give the name of the server that your
> mail was finally delivered to. Just use that host name in your email
> address to completely bypass Postini.

Maybe.  But not if the ISP has configured that MTA to reject port 25
connections from any sending machines except Postini's .

So the method needs to be tested from an outside address (Gmail accounts are
handy for this sort of thing, in addition to being handy generally).

  --John




From henleg at gmail.com  Thu Feb 23 19:27:48 2006
From: henleg at gmail.com (Henrik)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 19:27:48 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installation problems - newlist-issues
Message-ID: <6db7470e0602231027l64a0e3f3m7a1a28ffab8b59b4@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,


I'm trying to install mailman on a server running Mandriva 10.1

I typed "urpmi mandrake" and changed
"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py" to the desired subdomain to run
Mailman's webinterface and the desire subdomain for email.


Then, I am doing the "newlist"-command by using the following syntax:
"./newlist  --language en mailman admin at myserver.com mypassword"

Doing so gives me the following error-message at the command-line:

-----------------
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./newlist", line 219, in ?
    main()
  File "./newlist", line 160, in main
    mlist.Create(listname, owner_mail, pw)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 457, in Create
    self.InitVars(name, admin, crypted_password)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 381, in InitVars
    if Utils.GetCharSet(self.preferred_language) == 'us-ascii':
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 623, in GetCharSet
    return mm_cfg.LC_DESCRIPTIONS[lang][1]
KeyError: 'en_US'
-----------------

I've had this trouble every time I want to install Mailman, and it
doesn't seem to bend.


Can anyone help, please?


TIA



 / Henrik


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 24 01:12:15 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:12:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Suddenly Moderated
In-Reply-To: <UTK-CLSmz6UuEhjJ8uT000000b4@utk-cls.UTKCLS>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602231612150687bce9c53e@msapiro>

mcnutt wrote:

>Okay, stupid question:  where is the list normally set to be "moderated?"

I tried to answer this in my original reply. There are two kinds of
moderation settings. The first is emergency moderation of all list
traffic, and it is set on or off on the General Options page near the
bottom - the first item under additional settings.

Other than that, there is no list moderation setting even though the
hold reason is "post to moderated list". It is the poster that is
moderated, not the list. The member's moderation flag is the checkbox
in the 'mod' column of the Membership List page.

All member's 'mod' flags can be turned on or off at once by selecting
Off or On as desired for "Set everyone's moderation bit, including
those members not currently visible" under Additional Member Tasks at
the bottom of any Membershp List page and clicking Set.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tomnaugh at gmail.com  Fri Feb 24 01:20:46 2006
From: tomnaugh at gmail.com (Tom Kavanaugh)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:20:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Redirect all -bounce emails
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006021220031807665e48bc10@msapiro>
References: <98a90c220602121900p7d701c73qe2f7ed8019af288e@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006021220031807665e48bc10@msapiro>
Message-ID: <98a90c220602231620m6800c482xaa27fbdf7507b944@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mark,

Thanks for your response and suggestions.

I modified the Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py per you suggestions.
The unix_sysadmin-bounce emails now get redirected to mailman at name.com
That is the good part.

But what is happening now is that the mailman server keeps spitting out
these emails to the mailman mail list. Every few minutes I am bomarded with
these emails from the mailman mail list. The relevant contents are:


Reporting-MTA: dns; utc80.name.com
Received-From-MTA: DNS; localhost
Arrival-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:13:39 -0800 (PST)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; unix_sysadmin-bounces at name.com
<unix_sysadmin-bounces at am.necel.com>
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mailhost.name.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 5.1.1 <unix_sysadmin-bounces at name.com>
<unix_sysadmin-bounces at am.necel.com>... User
	unknown
Last-Attempt-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:13:39 -0800 (PST)



Seems that the mailman server (utc80) is re-trying to send to
unix_sysadmin-bounces at name.com, although it knows that this is an unknown
user.

Could you tell me how to go about fixing this?

Thanks
Tom


On 2/12/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Tom Kavanaugh wrote:
> >
> >>If you're thinking that you can get around the issue by having all
> bounces
> >from any list be
> >>returned to the 'mailman' list posting address, you could do this in the
> >source code, but >not by using aliases on mine.name.com.
> >
> >Yes, this is precisely what I want to accomplish. Could you point me to
> some
> >place, or the portion of the code that needs to be tinkered with. I am
> not a
> >perl/python person, so this is going to be a huge learning curve for me.
>
>
> There are two obvious ways that jump to mind.
>
> The first, which will address the bounce issue for all mail, is the
> following code at the beginning of the process() function in
> Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py
>
>     # Calculate the non-VERP envelope sender.
>     envsender = msgdata.get('envsender')
>     if envsender is None:
>         if mlist:
>             envsender = mlist.GetBouncesEmail()
>         else:
>             envsender = Utils.get_site_email(extra='bounces')
>
> which could simply be replaced by something like
>
>     # Envelope sender (bounces) is always the site list.
>     envsender = 'mailman at name.com'
>
> Don't worry about VERP because it is calculated from envsender.
>
> Another way to do it would be to modify the getListAddress() method
> definition in Mailman/MailList.py to just return 'mailman at name.com'
> when extra is not None and similarly modify get_site_email() in
> Mailman/Utils.py to ignore the extra argument.
>
> Then it might be possible to do it in your outgoing MTA, not with
> aliases, but with some kind of rewrite of the envelope sender on
> outgoing mail if your MTA supports such a thing.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From Jon.Slater at LPBroadband.Net  Fri Feb 24 01:36:05 2006
From: Jon.Slater at LPBroadband.Net (Jon D. Slater)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 17:36:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating Mailman with Spamassassin
Message-ID: <200602240036.k1O0aER7005023@steeplechase-hoa.org>

I've been using Mailman for some time, and just recently installed
SpamAssassin on my Fedora Core 4, Linux machine.

 

Where can I find instructions to integrate the two (so, that SpamAssassin
analyzes the e-mail before sending a request to the moderator for approval)?

 

Thanks!

 

Jon



From dhc2 at dcrocker.net  Fri Feb 24 01:56:58 2006
From: dhc2 at dcrocker.net (Dave Crocker)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:56:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Goodmail spells doom for mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0602180810490.14620@westnet.com>
References: <43F611AE.104@nerds.net>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0602180810490.14620@westnet.com>
Message-ID: <43FE59DA.9050200@dcrocker.net>


>> Has anyone talked about the changes planned by AOL, Yahoo! etc. to 
>> require "certification" via Goodmail or just be blocked?
...
> It's been beaten to death -- at this point I can't recall if here or on 
> other lists.  Essentially it means nothing. AOL backpedaled the next day 
> saying it wasn't a press release, they aren't requiring anything, blah blah 
> blah.


Having looked over the earlier articles I could find in the archive, and given 
how sensitive mailing list operation is to various mail authentication 
techniques -- e.g., SPF really does break it -- and given that AOL did not quite 
say that they are not requiring anything, I thought it worth reciting the 
current policy, as both yahoo and aol are stating quite explicitly:

Their use of Goodmail is for "transaction" messages, like purchase confirmations 
and is only an adjunct to both service providers' existing mechanisms.  For 
example, AOL with be continuing both of its existing white-list services.

 From what I can tell, the Goodmail technology does not work through a mailing 
list.  From what I can tell, limited its application to transaction mail will 
keep this from being a problem.

-- 

Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
<http://bbiw.net>


From rb at islandnet.com  Fri Feb 24 01:48:06 2006
From: rb at islandnet.com (Ron Brogden)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:48:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating Mailman with Spamassassin
In-Reply-To: <200602240036.k1O0aER7005023@steeplechase-hoa.org>
References: <200602240036.k1O0aER7005023@steeplechase-hoa.org>
Message-ID: <200602231648.06871.rb@islandnet.com>

On Thursday 23 February 2006 16:36, Jon D. Slater wrote:
> I've been using Mailman for some time, and just recently installed
> SpamAssassin on my Fedora Core 4, Linux machine.

Spam-assassin would normally be used with the MTA (i.e. exim, qmail, etc.) and 
not Mailman.  Basically, you should be using it to stop spam from getting to 
Mailman alltogther and not after the message has already been accepted by 
your SMTP daemon.

So this is likely not the place to be asking that question, try looking 
through the Spam-Assassin site for intergration how-tos for your SMTP daemon.

Cheers

-- 
islandnet.com
http://www.islandnet.com
support at islandnet.com
ph: (250) 383-0096 fax: (250) 383-6698


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Fri Feb 24 02:11:22 2006
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:11:22 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] One way mailing list
Message-ID: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A3736ABAF@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

What would be the right settings for a mailing list where one or two
people post to a list of subscribers but those subscribers cannot post
themselves to the list?

Regards

Steven


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Fri Feb 24 02:15:37 2006
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:15:37 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] One way mailing list
Message-ID: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A3736ABB3@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

n/m found it while looking for something else.....

FAQ 3.11

Regards

Steven

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+steven.jones=vuw.ac.nz at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+steven.jones=vuw.ac.nz at python.org] On
Behalf Of Steven Jones
Sent: Friday, 24 February 2006 2:11 p.m.
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] One way mailing list

What would be the right settings for a mailing list where one or two
people post to a list of subscribers but those subscribers cannot post
themselves to the list?

Regards

Steven
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/steven.jones%40vuw.
ac.nz

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From cpz at tuunq.com  Fri Feb 24 02:17:13 2006
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 17:17:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] One way mailing list
In-Reply-To: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A3736ABAF@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
	from Steven Jones at "Feb 24, 2006 02:11:22 pm"
Message-ID: <20060224011714.0CB287AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Steven Jones wrote:
> What would be the right settings for a mailing list where one or two
> people post to a list of subscribers but those subscribers cannot post
> themselves to the list?

Search the FAQ for announcement or one-way lists.

z!


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 24 02:19:09 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 17:19:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installation problems - newlist-issues
In-Reply-To: <6db7470e0602231027l64a0e3f3m7a1a28ffab8b59b4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006022317190905628a7148db@msapiro>

Henrik wrote:
>
>Then, I am doing the "newlist"-command by using the following syntax:
>"./newlist  --language en mailman admin at myserver.com mypassword"
>
>Doing so gives me the following error-message at the command-line:
>
>-----------------
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "./newlist", line 219, in ?
>    main()
>  File "./newlist", line 160, in main
>    mlist.Create(listname, owner_mail, pw)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 457, in Create
>    self.InitVars(name, admin, crypted_password)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 381, in InitVars
>    if Utils.GetCharSet(self.preferred_language) == 'us-ascii':
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 623, in GetCharSet
>    return mm_cfg.LC_DESCRIPTIONS[lang][1]
>KeyError: 'en_US'
>-----------------
>
>I've had this trouble every time I want to install Mailman, and it
>doesn't seem to bend.


Do you have

DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en-US'

in mm_cfg.py? It seems that that is the problem. Mailman has no
language 'en-US'. Since the default setting in Defaults.py is

DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en'

you can just remove

DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en-US'

from mm_cfg.py, or if you want it for documentation, change it to

DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en'

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From henleg at gmail.com  Fri Feb 24 02:24:36 2006
From: henleg at gmail.com (Henrik)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 02:24:36 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd:  installation problems - newlist-issues
In-Reply-To: <6db7470e0602231724l56b8aadck53c41cb106ac36c1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6db7470e0602231027l64a0e3f3m7a1a28ffab8b59b4@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006022317190905628a7148db@msapiro>
	<6db7470e0602231724l56b8aadck53c41cb106ac36c1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6db7470e0602231724t7f6d1de7g1821a1e3a17ac4c3@mail.gmail.com>

*resend*

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Henrik <henleg at gmail.com>
Date: Feb 24, 2006 2:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] installation problems - newlist-issues
To: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>


Hello Mark,



> Do you have
>
> DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en-US'
>
> in mm_cfg.py? It seems that that is the problem. Mailman has no
> language 'en-US'. Since the default setting in Defaults.py is
>
> DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en'
>
> you can just remove
>
> DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en-US'
>
> from mm_cfg.py, or if you want it for documentation, change it to
>
> DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en'

No, I didn't have that setting, however I added mailman the good old
fashion way.

However, now I can't get it to interact with apache. I'm pretty sure
that it's rolling otherwise.


Thanks.



 / H


From jdereus at gmail.com  Fri Feb 24 02:31:55 2006
From: jdereus at gmail.com (Jeff DeReus)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 19:31:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman attempts to inline attachments of MIME type
	text/plain
Message-ID: <c57a6bed0602231731y37971bcbt3136dce7ebddb672@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a way to allow attachments of text/plain without them being added
inline in the message post? Would it be possible to have the mailman archive
split out the attachment and, for each message, provide a separate link to
download the attachment as a separate file?


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 24 02:41:22 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 17:41:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installation problems - newlist-issues
In-Reply-To: <6db7470e0602231724t7f6d1de7g1821a1e3a17ac4c3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006022317412202658e0553ff@msapiro>

Henrik wrote:
>
>> Do you have
>>
>> DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en-US'
>>
>> in mm_cfg.py?
>
>No, I didn't have that setting,


Then maybe someone put it in Defaults.py. Let's hope Mandrake is not
distributing its package this way.


>however I added mailman the good old
>fashion way.


Which is?

I don't know how you can create a list any way except by copying som
other list's config.pck if you have an invalid value for
DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE. If nothing else, maybe you need to put

DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en'

in mm_cfg.py.


>However, now I can't get it to interact with apache. I'm pretty sure
>that it's rolling otherwise.


See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node10.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jdereus at gmail.com  Thu Feb 23 18:05:59 2006
From: jdereus at gmail.com (jeffd17)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 09:05:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman attempts to inline attachments of MIME type
	text/plain
Message-ID: <3093309.post@talk.nabble.com>


Is there a way to allow attachments of text/plain without them being added
inline in the message post?  
Would it be possible to have the mailman archive split out the attachment
and, for each message, provide a separate link to download the attachment as
a separate file?

--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Mailman-attempts-to-inline-attachments-of-MIME-type-text-plain-t1176375.html#a3093309
Sent from the Mailman - Users forum at Nabble.com.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 24 02:52:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 17:52:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman attempts to inline attachments of MIME
	typetext/plain
In-Reply-To: <c57a6bed0602231731y37971bcbt3136dce7ebddb672@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602231752330562f99cb1f3@msapiro>

Jeff DeReus wrote:

>Is there a way to allow attachments of text/plain without them being added
>inline in the message post?


On Non-Digest options, set scrub_nondigest to No. In addition, for
digests, the member needs to receive MIME digests rather than plain.


>Would it be possible to have the mailman archive
>split out the attachment and, for each message, provide a separate link to
>download the attachment as a separate file?


If the attachment doesn't specify a charset in the Content-Type:
header, it will be scrubbed rather than 'flattened', which is what you
want. Getting your MUA to 'attach' it that way may be a problem
though. I don't think there's a configuration setting to do it in all
cases.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 24 03:14:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 18:14:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Redirect all -bounce emails
In-Reply-To: <98a90c220602231620m6800c482xaa27fbdf7507b944@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602231814280375dea2f8d3@msapiro>

Tom Kavanaugh wrote:
>
>I modified the Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py per you suggestions.
>The unix_sysadmin-bounce emails now get redirected to mailman at name.com
>That is the good part.
>
>But what is happening now is that the mailman server keeps spitting out
>these emails to the mailman mail list. Every few minutes I am bomarded with
>these emails from the mailman mail list. The relevant contents are:


You asked how to redirect bounces to the mailman at name.com address (the
posting address for the site list) and that's what's happening.


>Reporting-MTA: dns; utc80.name.com
>Received-From-MTA: DNS; localhost
>Arrival-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:13:39 -0800 (PST)
>
>Final-Recipient: RFC822; unix_sysadmin-bounces at name.com
><unix_sysadmin-bounces at am.necel.com>
>Action: failed
>Status: 5.1.1
>Remote-MTA: DNS; mailhost.name.com
>Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 5.1.1 <unix_sysadmin-bounces at name.com>
><unix_sysadmin-bounces at am.necel.com>... User
>=09unknown
>Last-Attempt-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:13:39 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>
>Seems that the mailman server (utc80) is re-trying to send to
>unix_sysadmin-bounces at name.com, although it knows that this is an unknown
>user.


Mailman doesn't know anything about what addresses are or are not
deliverable, and since you have effectively disabled automatic bounce
processing, it can never find out.

My best guess here is that unix_sysadmin-bounces at name.com is a member
of the mailman at name.com list. If that's not it, I don't know what is.
Does that notice contain a copy of the original message? if so, what
is it? Or does it keep growing as the same bounce keeps rebouncing?

This is an interesting issue. Every message from the mailman at name.com
list had better be deliverable or you will get a bounce loop.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 24 03:28:45 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 18:28:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] email problems
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00602231009p25a176dfj97d443150845fa4c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602231828450921dea2fb06@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>I'm still not quite clear on the exact nature of the problem. Can you
>provide a specific example?


Me too, but I think I'm finally getting a clue.


>On 2/23/06, patrick siglin <Patrick.Siglin at memphistw.org> wrote:
>> Sorry. I all that. Bbs.memphistw.org and list.memphistw.org both sit on
>> the inside isolated from the inet. Mail.memphistw.org is the front end
>> that talks to the internet. I receive subscription notices just fine
>> from the list server. I do not get posts for some reason. I tested my
>> hotmail and yahoo account and I can send and receive from the list all
>> day.  Here is a picture.
>>
>>                             Inet
>>
>>                           exchange
>>                           /     \
>>                         Mailman bbs


So Patrick S, do I understand correctly that the issue is that posts
sent out from the Mailman machine are not delivered to user addresses
on the bbs machine and that otherwise things are OK including delivery
of owner notifications from Mailman to the bbs machine?

As far Mailman is concerned, posts are sent out in essentially the same
way as owner notices. The differences are only things like the actual
headers and body and the fact that (non-VERPed/non-presonalized
anyway) posts generally have multiple recipients and messages to the
owner may have only one.

Is there an MTA on the Mailman machine that Mailman sends through or
does it deliver directly to exchange?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From winerat at villagecorner.com  Fri Feb 24 05:27:56 2006
From: winerat at villagecorner.com (Sally K Scheer)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 23:27:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Goodmail spells doom for mailing lists?
References: <43F611AE.104@nerds.net><Pine.GSO.4.64.0602180810490.14620@westnet.com>
	<43FE59DA.9050200@dcrocker.net>
Message-ID: <012f01c638fb$6f21a320$2c5a56d8@sallyz7dwc2ci1>

I'm not quite sure what you've just written here. What is AOL blocking?

Sally Scheer

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Crocker" <dhc2 at dcrocker.net>
Cc: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Goodmail spells doom for mailing lists?


>
>>> Has anyone talked about the changes planned by AOL, Yahoo! etc. to
>>> require "certification" via Goodmail or just be blocked?
> ....
>> It's been beaten to death -- at this point I can't recall if here or on
>> other lists.  Essentially it means nothing. AOL backpedaled the next day
>> saying it wasn't a press release, they aren't requiring anything, blah 
>> blah
>> blah.
>
>
> Having looked over the earlier articles I could find in the archive, and 
> given
> how sensitive mailing list operation is to various mail authentication
> techniques -- e.g., SPF really does break it -- and given that AOL did not 
> quite
> say that they are not requiring anything, I thought it worth reciting the
> current policy, as both yahoo and aol are stating quite explicitly:
>
> Their use of Goodmail is for "transaction" messages, like purchase 
> confirmations
> and is only an adjunct to both service providers' existing mechanisms. 
> For
> example, AOL with be continuing both of its existing white-list services.
>
> From what I can tell, the Goodmail technology does not work through a 
> mailing
> list.  From what I can tell, limited its application to transaction mail 
> will
> keep this from being a problem.
>
> -- 
>
> Dave Crocker
> Brandenburg InternetWorking
> <http://bbiw.net>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/winerat%40villagecorner.com
>
> Security Policy: 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.11/264 - Release Date: 2/17/2006
>
> 



From ke6isf at chez-vrolet.net  Fri Feb 24 06:53:01 2006
From: ke6isf at chez-vrolet.net (Dennis Carr)
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 21:53:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman won't send messages?
Message-ID: <20060223215301.cc43cb7a.ke6isf@chez-vrolet.net>

I've noticed that, on a new install of Mailman, list traffic is not
being sent out - it seems that everything is just routing to nowhere in
particular.  What do I need to show in order to figure out what the
problem is?

Running Debian Sarge, installed through apt-get; MTA is postfix.

-Dennis Carr


From henleg at gmail.com  Fri Feb 24 14:45:19 2006
From: henleg at gmail.com (Henrik)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:45:19 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installation problems - newlist-issues
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006022317412202658e0553ff@msapiro>
References: <6db7470e0602231724t7f6d1de7g1821a1e3a17ac4c3@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006022317412202658e0553ff@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6db7470e0602240545t216e32acw5f40e2459bcd7abe@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/24/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Henrik wrote:
> >
> >> Do you have
> >>
> >> DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en-US'
> >>
> >> in mm_cfg.py?
> >
> >No, I didn't have that setting,
>
>
> Then maybe someone put it in Defaults.py. Let's hope Mandrake is not
> distributing its package this way.

They are, I'm afraid.


> >however I added mailman the good old
> >fashion way.
>
>
> Which is?

configure
make install



> >However, now I can't get it to interact with apache. I'm pretty sure
> >that it's rolling otherwise.
>
>
> See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node10.html>.

Did that.

Put in

ScriptAlias /mailman/       /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/

in my commonhttpd.conf - to no avail.



 / H


From jonathan at nerds.net  Fri Feb 24 15:08:52 2006
From: jonathan at nerds.net (Jonathan Dill)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 09:08:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Goodmail spells doom for mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <012f01c638fb$6f21a320$2c5a56d8@sallyz7dwc2ci1>
References: <43F611AE.104@nerds.net><Pine.GSO.4.64.0602180810490.14620@westnet.com>	<43FE59DA.9050200@dcrocker.net>
	<012f01c638fb$6f21a320$2c5a56d8@sallyz7dwc2ci1>
Message-ID: <43FF1374.9010806@nerds.net>

Sally K Scheer wrote:
> I'm not quite sure what you've just written here. What is AOL blocking?
>   
If you only have a few people on your mailing list, probably nothing, 
but if you cross a certain threshhold--I'm guessing either number of 
messages sent from you, or number of spam complaints--AOL just starts 
rejecting your e-mail, and you have to sign up for their "Enhanced 
Whitelist" service, which is apparently being phased out in favor of 
Goodmail.  Maybe this is not really an issue unless you have a "large" 
mailing list.  My concern was that AOL could start looking at 
Precedence: list / bulk in the e-mail headers, and then numbers do not 
matter.

I have a client with an opt-in only newsletter that goes out monthly, 
you have to go to their website, subscribe to the list, and then confirm 
your subscription.  Or you could fill out a paper form at one of their 
expos which clearly states that if you want to be on the newsletter 
mailing list, you should fill in your e-mail address.  The list 
currently has about 45,000 subscribers, about 15,000 of those are from 
AOL, and as many as 100-200 people may sign up for or leave the list in 
an average month.  Originally, it was more like 55,000, but when I took 
this on, I tuned the "bounce" settings to be more appropriate for a 
monthly "announce only" mailing list, peoples' bounce status was just 
getting reset too quickly.

Sometime last year, AOL just started rejecting our e-mail, and I had to 
register them for the "Enhanced Whitelist" program so the e-mail would 
go to AOL subscribers.  One thing that did do is that I started 
receiving e-mail from AOL every time someone reported the mailing as 
"spam" and then I would unsubscribe them from the list.  People sign up 
for the list, confirm their subscription, and then turn around and 
complain about getting e-mail from us, and then when I take them off the 
list, they complain that they should not have been removed, I just don't 
get it.  There is already a clear "Unsubscribe" link in our e-mail 
messages and we don't make people confirm unsubscription.  It would be 
nice if AOL would give people a "Unsubscribe" button so hopefully people 
would use that instead of just being lazy and clicking the "Spam" 
button, the headers by Mailman already include the necessary information 
to do that.  I would like to make it harder for people to subscribe and 
make people agree to some kind of "Terms of Service" but the client is 
afraid that will scare off technophobes, and I think there is a point to 
that.

Since Enhanced Whitelist is supposedly being phased out and we are 
already on that program, I am wondering if AOL will just start rejecting 
our e-mail again unless we sign up for Goodmail.

Jonathan


From dan at music.memphis.edu  Fri Feb 24 15:16:43 2006
From: dan at music.memphis.edu (Dan Phillips)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 08:16:43 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] AOL Spam complaints
In-Reply-To: <43FF1374.9010806@nerds.net>
References: <43F611AE.104@nerds.net><Pine.GSO.4.64.0602180810490.14620@westnet.com>	<43FE59DA.9050200@dcrocker.net>
	<012f01c638fb$6f21a320$2c5a56d8@sallyz7dwc2ci1>
	<43FF1374.9010806@nerds.net>
Message-ID: <6A0378B9-4A83-447C-A796-E64C657E6A18@music.memphis.edu>


On Feb 24, 2006, at 8:08 AM, Jonathan Dill wrote:
> People sign up
> for the list, confirm their subscription, and then turn around and
> complain about getting e-mail from us, and then when I take them  
> off the
> list, they complain that they should not have been removed, I just  
> don't
> get it.  There is already a clear "Unsubscribe" link in our e-mail
> messages and we don't make people confirm unsubscription.  It would be
> nice if AOL would give people a "Unsubscribe" button so hopefully  
> people
> would use that instead of just being lazy and clicking the "Spam"
> button, the headers by Mailman already include the necessary  
> information
> to do that.

FWIW, I've been told by AOL subscribers that the discard and spam  
buttons are close together and look alike. Every time I've gotten a  
spam complaint forwarded from the AOL feedback loop, when asked the  
poster has told me that they must have hit the spam button accidentally.

Dan


================================
Dan Phillips
Associate Professor of Horn, University of Memphis
site administrator: music.memphis.edu



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 24 16:31:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 07:31:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installation problems - newlist-issues
In-Reply-To: <6db7470e0602240545t216e32acw5f40e2459bcd7abe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060224073154054625baaa98@msapiro>

Henrik wrote:

>On 2/24/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>>
>> Then maybe someone put it in Defaults.py. Let's hope Mandrake is not
>> distributing its package this way.
>
>They are, I'm afraid.


  :-(


>> >however I added mailman the good old
>> >fashion way.
>>
>>
>> Which is?
>
>configure
>make install


Aaah, I misunderstood. I thought you meant the list, not the install.


>Put in
>
>ScriptAlias /mailman/       /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
>
>in my commonhttpd.conf - to no avail.


What happens when you go to e.g.
<http:/www.example.com/mailman/listinfo>? What's in the apache logs?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 24 17:43:04 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 08:43:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman won't send messages?
In-Reply-To: <20060223215301.cc43cb7a.ke6isf@chez-vrolet.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602240843040609a6b78fe5@msapiro>

Dennis Carr wrote:

>I've noticed that, on a new install of Mailman, list traffic is not
>being sent out - it seems that everything is just routing to nowhere in
>particular.  What do I need to show in order to figure out what the
>problem is?

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 24 18:11:54 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 11:11:54 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  email problems
In-Reply-To: <WEBSERVEF0ZnxV9j1TW00002da4@webserve.memphistw.org>
References: <6fbe3da00602231009p25a176dfj97d443150845fa4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<WEBSERVEF0ZnxV9j1TW00002da4@webserve.memphistw.org>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602240911u67b3483wafab6afa86a9c6ef@mail.gmail.com>

FYI, messages sent to me and not the list.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Patrick Siglin <patrick.siglin at memphistw.org>
Date: Feb 23, 2006 2:40 PM
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] email problems
To: Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com>


The machine I am on is running outlook and talking to exchange. I get any
admin type messages but not actual posts. If I goto hotmail, yahoo or even
another mail server on my network I can get posts.

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Bogen [mailto:pdbogen at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 12:10 PM
To: patrick siglin
Cc: Mailman-Users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] email problems

I'm still not quite clear on the exact nature of the problem. Can you
provide a specific example?

You say that you receive subscription notices, but do not get posts?
What machine is this on?

- Patrick Bogen

p.s., please include the mailman-users list in your replies. If your
client has a 'reply to all' function, that should take care of it.

On 2/23/06, patrick siglin <Patrick.Siglin at memphistw.org> wrote:
> Sorry. I all that. Bbs.memphistw.org and list.memphistw.org both sit on
> the inside isolated from the inet. Mail.memphistw.org is the front end
> that talks to the internet. I receive subscription notices just fine
> from the list server. I do not get posts for some reason. I tested my
> hotmail and yahoo account and I can send and receive from the list all
> day.  Here is a picture.
>
>                             Inet
>
>                           exchange
>                           /     \
>                         Mailman bbs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patrick Bogen [mailto:pdbogen at gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 11:42 PM
> To: patrick siglin
> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] email problems
>
> Sorry, not quite clear on some points here.
>
> Are you talking about receiving mail from the outside? (I.e., from
> other SMTP servers on the internet)
>
> If so, bbs.memphistw.org is accessible from the outside? (SMTP, once
> again)
>
> Lastly, does the MX for the domain memphistw.org point at
> bbs.memphistw.org? (This is a DNS issue, if you aren't already aware.
> The MX record tells mail servers where mail for some random
> [sub]domain needs to go. E.g., the MX for physics.tamu.edu is
> mail.physics.tamu.edu)
>
> - Patrick Bogen
>
> On 2/22/06, patrick siglin <Patrick.Siglin at memphistw.org> wrote:
> > ok I have my exchange server and another email server on the inside
> "bbs.memphistw.org" I can recieve mail on the bbs.memphistw.org but can
> not seem to get mail on "memphistw.org". Mail posts fine and every other
> user gets the email including the bbs.memphistw.org server. I do get
> emails from mailman about join requests and the welcome message but that
> is all. Any ideas? No spam blocker on the server so that shouldn't be
> it.
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users mailing list
> > Mailman-Users at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> > Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> > Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pdbogen%40gmail.com
> >
> > Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> >
>
>
> --
> - Patrick Bogen
>


--
- Patrick Bogen



--
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 24 18:12:43 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 11:12:43 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  email problems
In-Reply-To: <WEBSERVEx5EuSwCGozn00002dac@webserve.memphistw.org>
References: <6fbe3da00602231009p25a176dfj97d443150845fa4c@mail.gmail.com>
	<WEBSERVEx5EuSwCGozn00002dac@webserve.memphistw.org>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602240912v696d8dc8l2c7bfe787ad3ebdb@mail.gmail.com>

FYI, messages sent to me and not the list.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Patrick Siglin <patrick.siglin at memphistw.org>
Date: Feb 23, 2006 2:50 PM
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] email problems
To: Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com>


Now it is working again all of a sudden.

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Bogen [mailto:pdbogen at gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 12:10 PM
To: patrick siglin
Cc: Mailman-Users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] email problems

I'm still not quite clear on the exact nature of the problem. Can you
provide a specific example?

You say that you receive subscription notices, but do not get posts?
What machine is this on?

- Patrick Bogen

p.s., please include the mailman-users list in your replies. If your
client has a 'reply to all' function, that should take care of it.

On 2/23/06, patrick siglin <Patrick.Siglin at memphistw.org> wrote:
> Sorry. I all that. Bbs.memphistw.org and list.memphistw.org both sit on
> the inside isolated from the inet. Mail.memphistw.org is the front end
> that talks to the internet. I receive subscription notices just fine
> from the list server. I do not get posts for some reason. I tested my
> hotmail and yahoo account and I can send and receive from the list all
> day.  Here is a picture.
>
>                             Inet
>
>                           exchange
>                           /     \
>                         Mailman bbs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patrick Bogen [mailto:pdbogen at gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 11:42 PM
> To: patrick siglin
> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] email problems
>
> Sorry, not quite clear on some points here.
>
> Are you talking about receiving mail from the outside? (I.e., from
> other SMTP servers on the internet)
>
> If so, bbs.memphistw.org is accessible from the outside? (SMTP, once
> again)
>
> Lastly, does the MX for the domain memphistw.org point at
> bbs.memphistw.org? (This is a DNS issue, if you aren't already aware.
> The MX record tells mail servers where mail for some random
> [sub]domain needs to go. E.g., the MX for physics.tamu.edu is
> mail.physics.tamu.edu)
>
> - Patrick Bogen
>
> On 2/22/06, patrick siglin <Patrick.Siglin at memphistw.org> wrote:
> > ok I have my exchange server and another email server on the inside
> "bbs.memphistw.org" I can recieve mail on the bbs.memphistw.org but can
> not seem to get mail on "memphistw.org". Mail posts fine and every other
> user gets the email including the bbs.memphistw.org server. I do get
> emails from mailman about join requests and the welcome message but that
> is all. Any ideas? No spam blocker on the server so that shouldn't be
> it.
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users mailing list
> > Mailman-Users at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> > Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> > Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pdbogen%40gmail.com
> >
> > Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> >
>
>
> --
> - Patrick Bogen
>


--
- Patrick Bogen



--
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Feb 24 18:16:25 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 11:16:25 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] email problems
In-Reply-To: <WEBSERVE8jvJvXqtFps00002ddd@webserve.memphistw.org>
References: <6fbe3da00602240912v696d8dc8l2c7bfe787ad3ebdb@mail.gmail.com>
	<WEBSERVE8jvJvXqtFps00002ddd@webserve.memphistw.org>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602240916m7edd291eyd35d5258d5245598@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/24/06, Patrick Siglin <patrick.siglin at memphistw.org> wrote:
> What do you mean?

If you don't send your replies to the mailman-users list as well as to
whomever you're replying to, then other members of the list won't see
a complete picture of the conversation. Thus, I forwarded the messages
that you sent only to me to the list.

- Patrick Bogen


From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Fri Feb 24 18:36:25 2006
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 11:36:25 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Goodmail spells doom for mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <43FF1374.9010806@nerds.net>
References: <43F611AE.104@nerds.net><Pine.GSO.4.64.0602180810490.14620@westnet.com>
	<43FE59DA.9050200@dcrocker.net>
	<012f01c638fb$6f21a320$2c5a56d8@sallyz7dwc2ci1>
	<43FF1374.9010806@nerds.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.58.0602241130570.19877@albion.stonejongleux.com>

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006, Jonathan Dill wrote:

> One thing that did do is that I started
> receiving e-mail from AOL every time someone reported the mailing as
> "spam" and then I would unsubscribe them from the list.  People sign up
> for the list, confirm their subscription, and then turn around and
> complain about getting e-mail from us, and then when I take them off the
> list, they complain that they should not have been removed, I just don't
> get it.

Same issues (although smaller volume). My policy is real simple - report
the mailing as "spam" and I immediately unsubscribe the perp and ban him
from the mail server. The bounce refers to a web page with instructions on
how to apply for reinstatement after a year. Until then, they're off. I
run the lists as a service to them. I could not care less if they're
subscribers or not.

-- Larry Stone
   lstone19 at stonejongleux.com




From japruim at raoset.com  Fri Feb 24 17:57:21 2006
From: japruim at raoset.com (Jason Pruim)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 11:57:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Introduction and a quick question.
Message-ID: <95A0DC17-8B14-44F0-B678-3ABB1F14E971@raoset.com>

Hello,

Just wanted to say HI, I'm using mailman on an Apple Macintosh OS X  
Server 10.4.5 and absolutely love it. I haven't had any other  
exposure to mailman so I'm hoping to pick up some good info from here.

One thing that I am wondering is if there is away to set mailman to  
use .shtml files so I can incorporate my ssi files for navigation in  
it and still maintain the one ssi file? I've looked and haven't found  
away to do it yet. Hoping someone out there might be able to help me!

Thanks in Advance for any help or info you can provide!


Jason Pruim
japruim at raoset.com
Production & Technology Manager
MQC Specialist (2005 certified)
3251 132nd Ave
Holland MI 49424
616.399.2355
www.raoset.com





From jnguyen at ncmir.ucsd.edu  Fri Feb 24 21:53:58 2006
From: jnguyen at ncmir.ucsd.edu (Jana Nguyen)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 12:53:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe policy for admin and user approval not
	working
Message-ID: <43FF7266.4070205@ncmir.ucsd.edu>

Hi there,

I want both confirmation from admin and user prior to subscribing to a 
list.  I modified the 'mm_cfg.py' file with the
entry below, but it only ask for user confirmation and not admin?  Do I 
need to comment out the DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_POLICY=1
in the Defaults.py file (I believe you don't modify this file). 

# SUBSCRIBE POLICY
# 0 - open list (only when ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE is set to 1) **
# 1 - confirmation required for subscribes
# 2 - admin approval required for subscribes
# 3 - both confirmation and admin approval required
#
# ** please do not choose option 0 if you are not allowing open
# subscribes (next variable)
SUBSCRIBE_POLICY = 3



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 24 22:18:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:18:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe policy for admin and user approval
	notworking
In-Reply-To: <43FF7266.4070205@ncmir.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402006022413184102037de647f4@msapiro>

Jana Nguyen wrote:
>
>I want both confirmation from admin and user prior to subscribing to a 
>list.  I modified the 'mm_cfg.py' file with the
>entry below, but it only ask for user confirmation and not admin?  Do I 
>need to comment out the DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_POLICY=1
>in the Defaults.py file (I believe you don't modify this file). 
>
># SUBSCRIBE POLICY
># 0 - open list (only when ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE is set to 1) **
># 1 - confirmation required for subscribes
># 2 - admin approval required for subscribes
># 3 - both confirmation and admin approval required
>#
># ** please do not choose option 0 if you are not allowing open
># subscribes (next variable)
>SUBSCRIBE_POLICY = 3

You are correct. You don't modify Defaults.py. However, you can't just
make up names to set in mm_cfg.py. Essentially, the only meaningful
thing you can do in mm_cfg.py is override the settings of things which
are already defined in Defaults.py.

mm_cfg names which aren't defined in Defaults.py are not referenced
anywhere in Mailman. If they were, it would cause a NameError
exception if they weren't defined in mm_cfg.py.

DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_POLICY sets the initial subscribe_policy for new
lists. You may or may not want to override that in mm_cfg.py with
DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_POLICY = 3, but what you really want in this case is
to go to the list admin interface Privacy options...->Subscription
rules page for the existing list and set subscribe_policy to Confirm
and Approve.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dhc2 at dcrocker.net  Fri Feb 24 22:30:07 2006
From: dhc2 at dcrocker.net (Dave Crocker)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:30:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Goodmail spells doom for mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <43FF1374.9010806@nerds.net>
References: <43F611AE.104@nerds.net><Pine.GSO.4.64.0602180810490.14620@westnet.com>	<43FE59DA.9050200@dcrocker.net>	<012f01c638fb$6f21a320$2c5a56d8@sallyz7dwc2ci1>
	<43FF1374.9010806@nerds.net>
Message-ID: <43FF7ADF.5000208@dcrocker.net>

> If you only have a few people on your mailing list, probably nothing, 
> but if you cross a certain threshhold--I'm guessing either number of 
> messages sent from you, or number of spam complaints--AOL just starts 
> rejecting your e-mail, and you have to sign up for their "Enhanced 
> Whitelist" service, which is apparently being phased out in favor of 
> Goodmail. 


This is explicitly what they are saying they will NOT be doing.

They will continue their current white list and enhanced white list services.

the EWL is probably what solves your problem.


d/
-- 

Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
<http://bbiw.net>


From jonathan at nerds.net  Fri Feb 24 22:47:41 2006
From: jonathan at nerds.net (Jonathan Dill)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 16:47:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Goodmail spells doom for mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <43FF7ADF.5000208@dcrocker.net>
References: <43F611AE.104@nerds.net><Pine.GSO.4.64.0602180810490.14620@westnet.com>	<43FE59DA.9050200@dcrocker.net>	<012f01c638fb$6f21a320$2c5a56d8@sallyz7dwc2ci1>
	<43FF1374.9010806@nerds.net> <43FF7ADF.5000208@dcrocker.net>
Message-ID: <43FF7EFD.7000609@nerds.net>

Thanks, I just found this article, which is interesting reading...  If 
anybody has other relevant links, please let me know, I may put a page 
on my web page or at least bookmark them in my furl.net bookmarks.

http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/topnews/wpn-60-20060208WhitelistStaysAOLsGoodmailDance.html

Dave Crocker wrote:
>> If you only have a few people on your mailing list, probably nothing, 
>> but if you cross a certain threshhold--I'm guessing either number of 
>> messages sent from you, or number of spam complaints--AOL just starts 
>> rejecting your e-mail, and you have to sign up for their "Enhanced 
>> Whitelist" service, which is apparently being phased out in favor of 
>> Goodmail. 
>
>
> This is explicitly what they are saying they will NOT be doing.
>
> They will continue their current white list and enhanced white list 
> services.
>
> the EWL is probably what solves your problem.
>
>
> d/



From jnguyen at ncmir.ucsd.edu  Fri Feb 24 23:10:16 2006
From: jnguyen at ncmir.ucsd.edu (Jana Nguyen)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:10:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe policy for admin and user approval
 notworking
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006022413184102037de647f4@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006022413184102037de647f4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43FF8448.3050602@ncmir.ucsd.edu>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Jana Nguyen wrote:
>  
>
>>I want both confirmation from admin and user prior to subscribing to a 
>>list.  I modified the 'mm_cfg.py' file with the
>>entry below, but it only ask for user confirmation and not admin?  Do I 
>>need to comment out the DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_POLICY=1
>>in the Defaults.py file (I believe you don't modify this file). 
>>
>># SUBSCRIBE POLICY
>># 0 - open list (only when ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE is set to 1) **
>># 1 - confirmation required for subscribes
>># 2 - admin approval required for subscribes
>># 3 - both confirmation and admin approval required
>>#
>># ** please do not choose option 0 if you are not allowing open
>># subscribes (next variable)
>>SUBSCRIBE_POLICY = 3
>>    
>>
>
>
>DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_POLICY sets the initial subscribe_policy for new
>lists. You may or may not want to override that in mm_cfg.py with
>DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_POLICY = 3,
>
Did this, then restart the mailman server, but it only sent confirmation 
for user and did not ask the admin (still does not work):

DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_POLICY = 3

> but what you really want in this case is
>to go to the list admin interface Privacy options...->Subscription
>rules page for the existing list and set subscribe_policy to Confirm
>and Approve.
>  
>
I don't want to rely on the list manager of each mailing list that they 
will enable this option.  I want to set it in the policy or mm_cfg.py to 
ensure
that this policy is enable.

Thanks,
Jana



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Feb 24 23:43:44 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 14:43:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe policy for admin and user
	approvalnotworking
In-Reply-To: <43FF8448.3050602@ncmir.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402006022414434403595a7d0dd3@msapiro>

Jana Nguyen wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>>DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_POLICY sets the initial subscribe_policy for new
>>lists. You may or may not want to override that in mm_cfg.py with
>>DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_POLICY = 3,
>>
>Did this, then restart the mailman server, but it only sent confirmation 
>for user and did not ask the admin (still does not work):
>
>DEFAULT_SUBSCRIBE_POLICY = 3


It ONLY sets the INITIAL policy for newly created lists. It does
nothing for existing lists.


>> but what you really want in this case is
>>to go to the list admin interface Privacy options...->Subscription
>>rules page for the existing list and set subscribe_policy to Confirm
>>and Approve.
>>  
>>
>I don't want to rely on the list manager of each mailing list that they 
>will enable this option.  I want to set it in the policy or mm_cfg.py to 
>ensure
>that this policy is enable.


It is a PER LIST setting under control of the list admin. You could use
bin/withlist for example to set subscribe_policy to 3 for all existing
lists, but any list admin who doesn't want to approve subscriptions
can always set it back any time they want.

You have now set mm_cfg.py so that newly created lists will have
subscribe policy set to Confirm and Approve. If you now want to do the
same for all existing lists (and deal with the questions from all your
list admins who want to know why they suddenly have to approve all
subscription requests and then the users still aren't subscribed
because they didn't respond to the confirmation), do the following:

Create a file bin/set_confirm_and_approve.py containing

---cut here-------------------------------------------------
"""Set subscription policy to Confirm and Approve for all lists.

Save as bin/set_confirm_and_approve.py and run with

bin/withlist -a -r set_confirm_and_approve
"""

def set_confirm_and_approve(mlist):
    if not mlist.Locked():
        mlist.Lock()
    mlist subscribe_policy = 3
    mlist.Save()
    mlist.Unlock()
---cut here-------------------------------------------------

and run it with bin/withlist as indicated.

Alternatively, you can create a file containing simply

subscribe_policy = 3

and create a shell or other script to run bin/config_list over all
lists with that one line file as input.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Sat Feb 25 00:46:36 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 15:46:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives not working (yes, I broke it...)
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060224153245.05be4c80@207.99.63.98>

I was doing some edits of the archive template files on my installation of 
Mailman 2.1.5

Long story short, I ran into some write permission problems when trying to 
upload my edited versions and in a fit of bone-headedness, I screwed up a 
bunch of permissions by over zealously using the -R option of chmod...

This broke everything. I couldn't access the admin pages, the archives or 
post to my lists. I panicked.

Then I tried to do a rebuild/reinstall from source. No luck there, and then 
I remembered the check_perms script and used that to fix the damage I did. 
After a restart of the mailman daemon using mailmanctl, I could now post to 
the list and get to the admin pages.

So far so good. It's not a complete disaster anymore, just a minor one.

But now the archive simply will not work. Nothing gets added to the archive 
mbox file when I post to the list nor can I access the archive web pages 
(and yes, I double-checked the list archive settings and made sure the 
archive files are all still there). I am using the built-in archiver, it 
seems to not be able to find the archive files because all I get when I try 
to view the archive is a page that says "Private archive file not found".

I've looked at everything I can think of at this point and can't find a 
solution. What am I missing? Is there an obscure setting somewhere or a 
database file or something out there that needs to be told what lists are 
on the server?

Help will be much appreciated.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Feb 25 02:22:36 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 17:22:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives not working (yes, I broke it...)
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060224153245.05be4c80@207.99.63.98>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602241722360921e893f4dd@msapiro>

Dragon wrote:
>
>But now the archive simply will not work. Nothing gets added to the archive 
>mbox file when I post to the list nor can I access the archive web pages 
>(and yes, I double-checked the list archive settings and made sure the 
>archive files are all still there). I am using the built-in archiver, it 
>seems to not be able to find the archive files because all I get when I try 
>to view the archive is a page that says "Private archive file not found".
>
>I've looked at everything I can think of at this point and can't find a 
>solution. What am I missing? Is there an obscure setting somewhere or a 
>database file or something out there that needs to be told what lists are 
>on the server?

No. The lists are the subdirectories of the lists/ directory - no other
special stuff.

Check Mailman's error log. If there are problems with archiving posts,
there should be shunted messages and tracebacks in the log with more
detailed information.

Also check your web server access and error logs for more detail.

Here's an example what permissions in your archives structure should
look like

[msapiro at msapiro ...f/test-mailman]$ ll -a archives
total 0
drwxrwsr-x+  4 Owner None 0 Dec 19 21:41 .
drwxrwsr-x+ 20 Owner None 0 Feb 24 10:43 ..
drwxrws--x+ 10 Owner None 0 Feb 22 17:57 private
drwxrwsr-x+  2 Owner None 0 Jan 19 20:27 public
[msapiro at msapiro ...f/test-mailman]$ ll archives/private/
total 0
drwxrwsr-x+ 8 Owner None 0 Feb 22 17:57 list1
drwxrwsr-x+ 2 Owner None 0 Jan 31 19:36 list1.mbox
[msapiro at msapiro ...f/test-mailman]$ ll archives/private/list1
total 45
drwxrwsr-x+ 2 Owner None     0 Feb 22 17:57 2005-December
-rw-rw-r--  1 Owner None  1007 Feb 22 17:57 2005-December.txt
drwxrwsr-x+ 2 Owner None     0 Feb 22 17:57 2005-July
-rw-rw-r--  1 Owner None   380 Feb 22 17:57 2005-July.txt
drwxrwsr-x+ 2 Owner None     0 Feb 22 17:57 2006-February
-rw-rw-r--  1 Owner None  9723 Feb 22 17:57 2006-February.txt
drwxrwsr-x+ 2 Owner None     0 Feb 22 17:57 2006-January
-rw-rw-r--  1 Owner None 19067 Feb 22 17:57 2006-January.txt
drwxrwsr-x+ 6 Owner None     0 Feb 22 17:57 attachments
drwxrws---+ 2 Owner None     0 Feb 22 17:57 database
-rw-rw-r--  1 Owner None  2369 Feb 22 17:57 index.html
-rw-rw----  1 Owner None   920 Feb 22 17:57 pipermail.pck
[msapiro at msapiro ...f/test-mailman]$ ll archives/private/list1.mbox/
total 328
-rw-rw-r--  1 Owner None 334064 Feb 22 17:56 list1.mbox
[msapiro at msapiro ...f/test-mailman]$

Note that 'Owner' on your system is probably 'root' or the 'mailman'
user or a combination depending on how mailman was installed. 'None'
above is the 'mailman group and MUST be that group on you system.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Patrick.Siglin at memphistw.org  Sat Feb 25 04:24:59 2006
From: Patrick.Siglin at memphistw.org (patrick siglin)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 21:24:59 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] email problem
Message-ID: <AF50C156A7C69C4F8DF47F5398F8A961311B@webserve.memphistw.org>

Finally figured out what was going on. The mx record on my inside dns
was mai.memphistw.org instead of mail.memphistw.org.



From jeff.donsbach at gmail.com  Sat Feb 25 05:36:00 2006
From: jeff.donsbach at gmail.com (Jeff Donsbach)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 23:36:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delivery to Prodigy
Message-ID: <22976ef80602242036t57fa8ca4k875dc1a78ad51df1@mail.gmail.com>

Has anyone out there had any problems with their lists where messages
were not being delivered to subscribers on Prodigy?  I have one user
on Prodigy (small lists) that says he hasn't received any list emails
for a while now. I checked my Postfix logs and I can see that Prodigy
accepted the messages successfully (return code 250). I'm at a loss of
what to do next. Yes, I have told him to check any Spam filters &
folders on his end to see if messages were getting caught somewhere.
No luck. No messages found.

Suggestions? Could Prodigy be silently dropping messages from my lists?

Thanks in advance,
Jeff


From ke6isf at chez-vrolet.net  Sat Feb 25 06:52:20 2006
From: ke6isf at chez-vrolet.net (Dennis Carr)
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 21:52:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [SOLVED] Re:  Mailman won't send messages?
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602240843040609a6b78fe5@msapiro>
References: <20060223215301.cc43cb7a.ke6isf@chez-vrolet.net>
	<PC1740200602240843040609a6b78fe5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060224215220.c0f74917.ke6isf@chez-vrolet.net>

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 08:43:04 -0800
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Dennis Carr wrote:
> 
> >I've noticed that, on a new install of Mailman, list traffic is not
> >being sent out - it seems that everything is just routing to nowhere
> >in particular.  What do I need to show in order to figure out what
> >the problem is?

The problem, as I discovered completely by accident, is that the list
owner also needs to be subscribed to the list - this is not
automatically done in 2.1.5, which is what is current in Debian Sarge.

-Dennis


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Feb 25 16:07:59 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 07:07:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [SOLVED] Re:  Mailman won't send messages?
In-Reply-To: <20060224215220.c0f74917.ke6isf@chez-vrolet.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602250707590390479a4401@msapiro>

Dennis Carr wrote:
>
>The problem, as I discovered completely by accident, is that the list
>owner also needs to be subscribed to the list - this is not
>automatically done in 2.1.5, which is what is current in Debian Sarge.


I don't know why that would be a problem unless the problem was that
the list owner's posts were held because they were from a non-member.

Or maybe you're saying that the only problem was that the list owner
thought that posts weren't delivered because he/she wasn't receiving
them.

In general, there is no requirement that the owner be a member of the
list which is why the owner is not automatically a member.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Feb 25 16:17:49 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 07:17:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delivery to Prodigy
In-Reply-To: <22976ef80602242036t57fa8ca4k875dc1a78ad51df1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602250717490703d73acad0@msapiro>

Jeff Donsbach wrote:

>Has anyone out there had any problems with their lists where messages
>were not being delivered to subscribers on Prodigy?


My prodigy users receive list posts OK.


>I have one user
>on Prodigy (small lists) that says he hasn't received any list emails
>for a while now. I checked my Postfix logs and I can see that Prodigy
>accepted the messages successfully (return code 250). I'm at a loss of
>what to do next. Yes, I have told him to check any Spam filters &
>folders on his end to see if messages were getting caught somewhere.
>No luck. No messages found.
>
>Suggestions? Could Prodigy be silently dropping messages from my lists?


Absolutely, but if they are, it is unlikely that the fact that they
come from Mailman or have Precedence: list is the reason unless the
user has somehow elected not to receive Precedence: list mail.

The next step is for the user to complain to Prodigy that he is not
receiving mail that he wants to receive, and to keep beating on them
until they stop censoring his mail or satisfactorily explain what the
problem is. You can help by providing the log messages that show the
mail was sent and 'accepted' at their end.

You could try contacting Prodigy too, but I think this kind of
complaint is more likely to produce a successful result if it coms
from their customer.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From QSL at softhome.net  Sat Feb 25 16:49:50 2006
From: QSL at softhome.net (Tim)
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 10:49:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't Delete Corrupt Subscriber Address
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20060225103816.09fb9920@pop3.direcway.com>


We are using Mailman v 2.1.4 on a Linux box with postfix and I am site admin.

We have a subscriber address that has /t on the end of it (xxx at xxx.com/t) which can only be seen when dumping the lists config file.  The subscriber address looks normal xxx at xxx.com) when looking for it using any other method (list members, etc).

I've tried to use reg exps using remove member with no luck and tried using the method described in the FAQ (3.13. How do I remove a user name or email address with an illegal character in it?) with no luck either.

Does anyone have any other suggestions?

Thanks

Tim





From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Feb 25 17:49:24 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 01:49:24 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installation problems - newlist-issues
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060224073154054625baaa98@msapiro> (Mark Sapiro's
	message of "Fri, 24 Feb 2006 07:31:54 -0800")
References: <PC174020060224073154054625baaa98@msapiro>
Message-ID: <87pslbgz8r.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Mark" == Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> writes:

    Mark> Henrik wrote:

    >> On 2/24/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

    >>> Then maybe someone put it in Defaults.py. Let's hope Mandrake
    >>> is not distributing its package this way.

    >> They are, I'm afraid.

    Mark>   :-(

With all due respect to Henrik, if I were you, unless you find
something obvious pretty quickly, I'd send him right back to Mandriva.
Then add Mandriva to the cPanel FAQ.  I've been around this loop with
Mandriva, and they claim to see nothing wrong with such hacks as a
matter of policy.  :-(


-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From john at wa9als.com  Sat Feb 25 14:47:14 2006
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 08:47:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating Mailman with Spamassassin
References: <200602240036.k1O0aER7005023@steeplechase-hoa.org>
	<200602231648.06871.rb@islandnet.com>
Message-ID: <007501c63a11$fd6de2d0$0201a8c0@wa9als>

> On Thursday 23 February 2006 16:36, Jon D. Slater wrote:
>> I've been using Mailman for some time, and just recently installed
>> SpamAssassin on my Fedora Core 4, Linux machine.
>
> Spam-assassin would normally be used with the MTA (i.e. exim, qmail, etc.) 
> and
> not Mailman.  Basically, you should be using it to stop spam from getting 
> to
> Mailman alltogther and not after the message has already been accepted by
> your SMTP daemon.
>
> So this is likely not the place to be asking that question, try looking
> through the Spam-Assassin site for intergration how-tos for your SMTP 
> daemon.

Oh, I disagree, it's not that bad a place to ask - How about Mailman FAQ 
#4.23?  http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=all#4.23

Three methods -

#1 is MTA integration

#2 uses patches - This is what I do, and it works great.  Unfortunately, the 
link http://jamesh.id.au is no longer good, so you will have to get the 
patches elsewhere.  Google spamassassin.py or see 
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=640518&group_id=103&atid=300103 
You will need to add the following to your mm_cfg.py:
#
GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(1, 'SpamAssassin')
SPAMASSASSIN_HOST = 'localhost'
SPAMASSASSIN_DISCARD_SCORE = 500
SPAMASSASSIN_HOLD_SCORE = 3
SPAMASSASSIN_MEMBER_BONUS = 0
# You can also do a similar thing for Clam if you get that patch
# Scan messages for viruses using Clam AntiVirus
GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(1, 'ClamScan')
CLAMAV_DISCARD = 0
CLAMAV_CLAMDSCANPATH = '/usr/bin/clamdscan'

#3  Procmail also works, of course.

John



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb 26 04:23:13 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 19:23:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't Delete Corrupt Subscriber Address
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20060225103816.09fb9920@pop3.direcway.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602251923130609f5dea04e@msapiro>

Tim wrote:
>
>We have a subscriber address that has /t on the end of it (xxx at xxx.com/t) which can only be seen when dumping the lists config file.  The subscriber address looks normal xxx at xxx.com) when looking for it using any other method (list members, etc).


Do you mean '\t', i.e. a tab character? Is the difference between '\t'
and '/t' a typo here or does it have something to do with your lack of
success?

If you try the '-f' option with list_members, you might actually see
the <tab> between 'xxx.com' and the terminating '>'.


>I've tried to use reg exps using remove member with no luck


Do you mean bin/remove_members? It doesn't accept regexps, only literal
addresses, and it won't accept a '\t' escape - you'd need to give it
an actual tab character.

You could try

bin/remove_members listname 'xxx at xxx.com<tab>'

where <tab> represents an actual tab character

>and tried using the method described in the FAQ (3.13. How do I remove a user name or email address with an illegal character in it?) with no luck either.


Try bin/withlist -l listname

and then at the '>>>' prompts type

adr = 'xxx at xxx.com\t'    (this should be the actual address of course)
m.removeMember(adr)

If that throws an exception, try

del m.members[adr]


Then in any case type

m.Save()

in order to save the changed list, and finally type control-D to a
prompt to end the interactive session.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From rower at movieeditor.com  Sun Feb 26 11:24:20 2006
From: rower at movieeditor.com (Robin Rowe)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 02:24:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual host in subscribe url
Message-ID: <440181D4.2070507@movieeditor.com>

Configuring Mailman with Postfix and virtual domains. On old sever that 
someone else set up for me the subscribe path was:

  http://mydomain.com/mailman/subscribe/announce_mydomain.com

On new site I configured it is:

  http://mydomain.com/mailman/subscribe/announce

Is this merely a change across versions of Mailman or have I not 
configured something correctly?

Thank you,

Robin



From webmaster at milano-pizza.co.uk  Sun Feb 26 09:53:48 2006
From: webmaster at milano-pizza.co.uk (Ashif Zubair)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 08:53:48 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restricting Members Posts
Message-ID: <E1FDHf2-0006QB-GA@jomongee.jomongee.co.uk>

Hi, 
I am using Mailman Ver: 2.1.6 

I want to make my Mailing list a newsletter subscription type service.. 
where the Subscriber can not post..

On the documentation its written that in the privacy options page, i 
can find the option of disabling of posting of subscribers except 
Moderators and Administrator...

But i am unable to find that setting in the privacy option of Mailman..
so i want to inquire that where is that option.. i am unable to find it 
in any page of Mailman (ver:2.1.6)

all i wnat is that the subscribers to my list can't post except 
administrator or moderators.

Thanks alot..
awaitng reply..

Thanking you in anticipation..

Webmaster
www.milano-pizza.co.uk


From nigel at rmk.co.il  Sun Feb 26 13:01:24 2006
From: nigel at rmk.co.il (Nigel Ridley)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 14:01:24 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple mailing lists
Message-ID: <44019894.5020601@rmk.co.il>

Hi,

I read the documentation:
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/index.html
and it looks pretty complicated (and I'm not sure if I could do all of 
what is required on my hosted website).

I have a website with a Mailman list (using cpanel - which came with the 
hosting plan) and I would like to have multiple mailing lists.
Basically they would be announcement lists having the same content but 
in several different languages.

Q. What is the best way to set up such a system?
The problem using cpanel is that it defaults Mailman to English and my 
hosting company said it would be better to install Mailman in my own space:
<quote>
You would have to install a copy of mailman under your own space to take 
advantage of the language packs.  Any change we would make to the 
serverwide install would just be overwritten by cpanel when next it updated.
<end quote>

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Nigel Ridley

-- 
It's not a problem -- it's a learning opportunity.
--


From hansen at rc.org  Sun Feb 26 13:43:48 2006
From: hansen at rc.org (Allan Hansen)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 04:43:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't Delete Corrupt Subscriber Address
Message-ID: <p0623090dc02752fd280d@[10.0.1.2]>

How about:

bin/list_members -f <list>|grep -v -e "xxx at xxx.com" > <list>
bin/sync_members -f <list> <list>

Allan



>Tim wrote:
>>
>>We have a subscriber address that has /t on the end of it (xxx at xxx.com/t) which can only be seen when dumping the lists config file.  The subscriber address looks normal xxx at xxx.com) when looking for it using any other method (list members, etc).
>
>
>Do you mean '\t', i.e. a tab character? Is the difference between '\t'
>and '/t' a typo here or does it have something to do with your lack of
>success?
>
>If you try the '-f' option with list_members, you might actually see
>the <tab> between 'xxx.com' and the terminating '>'.
>
>
>>I've tried to use reg exps using remove member with no luck
>
>
>Do you mean bin/remove_members? It doesn't accept regexps, only literal
>addresses, and it won't accept a '\t' escape - you'd need to give it
>an actual tab character.
>
>You could try
>
>bin/remove_members listname 'xxx at xxx.com<tab>'
>
>where <tab> represents an actual tab character
>
>>and tried using the method described in the FAQ (3.13. How do I remove a user name or email address with an illegal character in it?) with no luck either.
>
>
>Try bin/withlist -l listname
>
>and then at the '>>>' prompts type
>
>adr = 'xxx at xxx.com\t'    (this should be the actual address of course)
>m.removeMember(adr)
>
>If that throws an exception, try
>
>del m.members[adr]
>
>
>Then in any case type
>
>m.Save()
>
>in order to save the changed list, and finally type control-D to a
>prompt to end the interactive session.
>
>-- 
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-- 
 _________________________________________________________________
| Allan Hansen, Ph.D.                                             |
|    P.O. Box 2423, Cypress, CA 90630, U.S.A.                     |
|                                                                 |
| Work:                              Home:                        |
| Phone: +1-714/952-6015             +1-714/875-8870              |
| Fax:   +1-714/952-6746                                          |
| Email: allan.hansen at ugs.com        hansen at rc.org                |
| WWW:   http://www.ugs.com          http://www.rc.org/           |
|                                                                 |
|_Anything is possible with the right tools and right information_|


From netwiz at crc.id.au  Sun Feb 26 14:07:03 2006
From: netwiz at crc.id.au (Steven Haigh)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 00:07:03 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Resetting usenet watermark?
Message-ID: <F40CC225-30AB-45C1-B51A-183181453E97@crc.id.au>

Hi all,

I've just copied my mailman configs from one system to another, and  
after reinstalling innd on a private news server, I'm now getting the  
following in the logs:

Feb 26 23:50:02 2006 (2757) rgsouthern: [0..0]
Feb 26 23:50:02 2006 (2757) nothing new for list rgsouthern
Feb 26 23:50:02 2006 (2757) rgsouthern watermark: 12
Feb 26 23:50:02 2006 (2757) melbwireless: [0..0]
Feb 26 23:50:02 2006 (2757) nothing new for list melbwireless
Feb 26 23:50:02 2006 (2757) melbwireless watermark: 37

As the newsgroups were reset, the watermark is obviously incorrect.  
Is there a way to reset this watermark so that the system starts  
gating news correctly again?

--
Steven Haigh

Email: netwiz at crc.id.au
Web: http://www.crc.id.au
Phone: (03) 9017 0597 - 0412 935 897






From QSL at softhome.net  Sun Feb 26 15:42:04 2006
From: QSL at softhome.net (Tim)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:42:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't Delete Corrupt Subscriber Address
In-Reply-To: <p0623090dc02752fd280d@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20060226093946.00ac81a0@pop.gmail.com>

Excellent!  Worked like a charm.  This should be in the FAQ.

Thanks much!

Tim


At 07:43 AM 2/26/2006, Allan Hansen wrote:
>How about:
>
>bin/list_members -f <list>|grep -v -e "xxx at xxx.com" > <list>
>bin/sync_members -f <list> <list>
>
>Allan
>
>
>
>>Tim wrote:
>>>
>>>We have a subscriber address that has /t on the end of it (xxx at xxx.com/t) which can only be seen when dumping the lists config file.  The subscriber address looks normal (xxx at xxx.com) when looking for it using any other method (list members, etc).
>>
>>




From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb 26 16:24:25 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 07:24:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual host in subscribe url
In-Reply-To: <440181D4.2070507@movieeditor.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006022607242507656507eb56@msapiro>

Robin Rowe wrote:

>Configuring Mailman with Postfix and virtual domains. On old sever that 
>someone else set up for me the subscribe path was:
>
>  http://mydomain.com/mailman/subscribe/announce_mydomain.com
>
>On new site I configured it is:
>
>  http://mydomain.com/mailman/subscribe/announce
>
>Is this merely a change across versions of Mailman or have I not 
>configured something correctly?


The former URL looks like one that would come from a cPanel
installation or perhaps one that uses other patches mentioned in
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.047.htp>.

Your 'new' URL is the correct one for a standard Mailman install. The
only reason to consider anything else is a requirement to support
lists with the same list name on different virtual hosts. Mailman as
distributed doesn't do this. See the above FAQ article for more info.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb 26 16:28:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 07:28:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restricting Members Posts
In-Reply-To: <E1FDHf2-0006QB-GA@jomongee.jomongee.co.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602260728280265e085c8c5@msapiro>

Ashif Zubair wrote:
>
>On the documentation its written that in the privacy options page, i 
>can find the option of disabling of posting of subscribers except 
>Moderators and Administrator...


I don't know what documentation you're looking at, but perhaps you are
misinterpreting it. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp>
for a detailed discussion of setting up a newsletter, one-way or
announcement list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb 26 16:45:31 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 07:45:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Resetting usenet watermark?
In-Reply-To: <F40CC225-30AB-45C1-B51A-183181453E97@crc.id.au>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602260745310703965178de@msapiro>

Steven Haigh wrote:
>Feb 26 23:50:02 2006 (2757) melbwireless watermark: 37
>
>As the newsgroups were reset, the watermark is obviously incorrect.  
>Is there a way to reset this watermark so that the system starts  
>gating news correctly again?

You can use bin/withlist to manipulate the list attribute
usenet_watermark. Set it to a number 1 less than the number of the
first article you want from the news server or to None if you just
want to 'catch up' without retrieving articles or to 0 if you want to
retrieve all articles on the news server.

For example

bin/withlist -l <list_name>

and at the >>> prompt

>>> m.usenet_watermark = 5

or

>>> m.usenet_watermark = None

and then

>>> m.Save()

and then a control-D to exit.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From netwiz at crc.id.au  Sun Feb 26 16:57:19 2006
From: netwiz at crc.id.au (Steven Haigh)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 02:57:19 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Resetting usenet watermark?
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602260745310703965178de@msapiro>
References: <F40CC225-30AB-45C1-B51A-183181453E97@crc.id.au>
	<PC1740200602260745310703965178de@msapiro>
Message-ID: <34372.203.56.246.92.1140969439.squirrel@zeus.crc.id.au>

Excellent - this worked like a charm. Thanks :)

On Mon, February 27, 2006 2:45 am, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Steven Haigh wrote:
>>Feb 26 23:50:02 2006 (2757) melbwireless watermark: 37
>>
>>As the newsgroups were reset, the watermark is obviously incorrect.
>>Is there a way to reset this watermark so that the system starts
>>gating news correctly again?
>
> You can use bin/withlist to manipulate the list attribute
> usenet_watermark. Set it to a number 1 less than the number of the
> first article you want from the news server or to None if you just
> want to 'catch up' without retrieving articles or to 0 if you want to
> retrieve all articles on the news server.
>
> For example
>
> bin/withlist -l <list_name>
>
> and at the >>> prompt
>
>>>> m.usenet_watermark = 5
>
> or
>
>>>> m.usenet_watermark = None
>
> and then
>
>>>> m.Save()
>
> and then a control-D to exit.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


-- 
Steven Haigh

Email: netwiz at crc.id.au
Web: http://www.crc.id.au
Phone: (03) 9017 0597 - 0412 935 897

Sendmail is like emacs: A nice operating system, but missing
an editor and a MTA.


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb 26 17:18:37 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 08:18:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <44019894.5020601@rmk.co.il>
Message-ID: <PC17402006022608183704379f3ca1ba@msapiro>

Nigel Ridley wrote:
>
>I read the documentation:
>http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/index.html
>and it looks pretty complicated (and I'm not sure if I could do all of 
>what is required on my hosted website).


Usually, one does not have sufficient access to a hosted server to
install mailman.


>I have a website with a Mailman list (using cpanel - which came with the 
>hosting plan) and I would like to have multiple mailing lists.
>Basically they would be announcement lists having the same content but 
>in several different languages.
>
>Q. What is the best way to set up such a system?


You could have a list per language and post to each list in it's own
language. Ideally, each list's preferred_language attribute would be
the language you post in, but this would not be an absolute
requirement.

Mailman has no facility for actually translating the content of a post
to another language. The language options control the language of
notices, web pages and canned messages only.


>The problem using cpanel is that it defaults Mailman to English and my 
>hosting company said it would be better to install Mailman in my own space:
><quote>
>You would have to install a copy of mailman under your own space to take 
>advantage of the language packs.  Any change we would make to the 
>serverwide install would just be overwritten by cpanel when next it updated.
><end quote>

Either I don't understand your issue or cPanel is worse than I thought
or your host doesn't understand Mailman's language support.

To set up a list in French for example, go to the Mailman admin
interface Language Options page. Check French under available
languages and Submit Your Changes. Then set preferred_language to
French and Submit Your Changes again. If this isn't available on your
hosted installation, then maybe you can't do it. If you can, then
there is nothing that the host has to change to support this that
would be reversed in an update.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From rmraineypostmaster at earthlink.net  Sun Feb 26 17:37:14 2006
From: rmraineypostmaster at earthlink.net (Michael Rainey)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:37:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restricting Members Posts
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602260728280265e085c8c5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C027274A.8D09%rmraineypostmaster@earthlink.net>

I have just gone thru same process following FAQ 3.11 and found all works
except one very important, i.e how an ?approved? sender as in FAQ3.11  "A
more secure alternative"  work.

I am working with Mailman 2.14 w/CP where I can set mod flag off for self,
but with to leave mod flag on for all and use "Approved: <password> which I
am somehow not  doing  or have not set correctly.

Any  help, thanks,

Michael Rainey


on 2/26/06 8:28 AM, Mark Sapiro at msapiro at value.net wrote:

> Ashif Zubair wrote:
>> 
>> On the documentation its written that in the privacy options page, i
>> can find the option of disabling of posting of subscribers except
>> Moderators and Administrator...
> 
> 
> I don't know what documentation you're looking at, but perhaps you are
> misinterpreting it. See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp>
> for a detailed discussion of setting up a newsletter, one-way or
> announcement list.



From nigel at rmk.co.il  Sun Feb 26 17:49:23 2006
From: nigel at rmk.co.il (Nigel Ridley)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 18:49:23 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006022608183704379f3ca1ba@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006022608183704379f3ca1ba@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4401DC13.1050605@rmk.co.il>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Nigel Ridley wrote:
> 
>>I read the documentation:
>>http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/index.html
>>and it looks pretty complicated (and I'm not sure if I could do all of 
>>what is required on my hosted website).
> 
> 
> 
> Usually, one does not have sufficient access to a hosted server to
> install mailman.
> 
> 
> 
>>I have a website with a Mailman list (using cpanel - which came with the 
>>hosting plan) and I would like to have multiple mailing lists.
>>Basically they would be announcement lists having the same content but 
>>in several different languages.
>>
>>Q. What is the best way to set up such a system?
> 
> 
> 
> You could have a list per language and post to each list in it's own
> language. Ideally, each list's preferred_language attribute would be
> the language you post in, but this would not be an absolute
> requirement.
> 
> Mailman has no facility for actually translating the content of a post
> to another language. The language options control the language of
> notices, web pages and canned messages only.

No I didn't expect Mailman to translate content for me -- I know it's 
good but.......

> 
> 
> 
>>The problem using cpanel is that it defaults Mailman to English and my 
>>hosting company said it would be better to install Mailman in my own space:
>><quote>
>>You would have to install a copy of mailman under your own space to take 
>>advantage of the language packs.  Any change we would make to the 
>>serverwide install would just be overwritten by cpanel when next it updated.
>><end quote>
> 
> 
> Either I don't understand your issue or cPanel is worse than I thought
> or your host doesn't understand Mailman's language support.

I think they don't understand -- see below:

> 
> To set up a list in French for example, go to the Mailman admin
> interface Language Options page. Check French under available
> languages and Submit Your Changes. Then set preferred_language to
> French and Submit Your Changes again. If this isn't available on your
> hosted installation, then maybe you can't do it. If you can, then
> there is nothing that the host has to change to support this that
> would be reversed in an update.
> 

Yes! I went to the Language Options page and yes I can change the 
default language :-)

So now I just have to figure out my next move -- I would really like 
about 10 or 12 mailing lists for the different languages -- is that 
possible if I can install Mailman in my 'own space'?

My web hosting company doesn't see a problem for me to install Mailman:
<quote>
Mailman is to be installed by a username anyway, as noted in the 
documentation.  There might be a few symlinks we have to set up for you, 
but other than that there's no trick to it.
<end quote>

Anyway, you have cheered me up no end :-)

Blessings,

Nigel

-- 
It's not a problem -- it's a learning opportunity.
--


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb 26 18:12:18 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:12:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't Delete Corrupt Subscriber Address
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20060226093946.00ac81a0@pop.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006022609121800782c370820@msapiro>

Tim wrote:

>This should be in the FAQ.
>
>At 07:43 AM 2/26/2006, Allan Hansen wrote:
>>How about:
>>
>>bin/list_members -f <list>|grep -v -e "xxx at xxx.com" > <list>
>>bin/sync_members -f <list> <list>


The FAQ has been updated.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From rower at movieeditor.com  Sun Feb 26 19:36:00 2006
From: rower at movieeditor.com (Robin Rowe)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 10:36:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual host in subscribe url
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006022607242507656507eb56@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006022607242507656507eb56@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4401F510.7000706@movieeditor.com>

Mark,

Thank you! Excellent answer. You're right that it was formerly cpanel.

Just wondering, isn't it a bug that by default virtual hosts Mailman 
namespaces collide? Why should it be considered normal to require a 
patch to support virtual hosts properly? In the web pages you referred 
me to there's some griping that cpanel was slow to share the patch. Why 
no rush to adopt it?

Robin

Mark Sapiro wrote:
  > The former URL looks like one that would come from a cPanel
> installation or perhaps one that uses other patches mentioned in
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.047.htp>.
> 
> Your 'new' URL is the correct one for a standard Mailman install. The
> only reason to consider anything else is a requirement to support
> lists with the same list name on different virtual hosts. Mailman as
> distributed doesn't do this. See the above FAQ article for more info.
> 


From hansen at rc.org  Sun Feb 26 19:42:44 2006
From: hansen at rc.org (Allan Hansen)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 10:42:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't Delete Corrupt Subscriber Address
Message-ID: <p06230912c027a4663cb1@[10.0.1.2]>

If you maintain people's names on the list, then the same procedure can be
used to remove someone based on some string in the name, in case you know
the name but not the address (I often get such requests):

bin/list_members -f <list> | grep -e "<string>"| wc
<count check>
bin/list_members -f <list> | grep -v -e "<string>" > <list>
bin/list_members -f <list> <list>

All this can, of course, be worked into a simple script that also does the count check
and that will return 'ambiguous', 'OK', 'not found' as appropriate.
Then you should be able to remove someone with just

delete_member <list> <some_string_of_characters>

As for adding to the FAQ, I'll respectfully bow out and leave it to more
experienced users to do if they deem the above an appropriate addition.

Yours,

    Allan

At 9:42 -0500 2/26/06, Tim wrote:
>Excellent!  Worked like a charm.  This should be in the FAQ.
>
>Thanks much!
>
>Tim
>
>
>At 07:43 AM 2/26/2006, Allan Hansen wrote:
>>How about:
>>
>>bin/list_members -f <list>|grep -v -e "xxx at xxx.com" > <list>
>>bin/sync_members -f <list> <list>
>>
>>Allan
>>
>>
>>
>>>Tim wrote:
>>>>
>>>>We have a subscriber address that has /t on the end of it (xxx at xxx.com/t) which can only be seen when dumping the lists config file.  The subscriber address looks normal (xxx at xxx.com) when looking for it using any other method (list members, etc).
>>>
>>>

-- 
 _________________________________________________________________
| Allan Hansen, Ph.D.                                             |
|    P.O. Box 2423, Cypress, CA 90630, U.S.A.                     |
|                                                                 |
| Work:                              Home:                        |
| Phone: +1-714/952-6015             +1-714/875-8870              |
| Fax:   +1-714/952-6746                                          |
| Email: allan.hansen at ugs.com        allan at hansen-family.us       |
| WWW:   http://www.ugs.com          http://www.hansen-family.us/ |
|                                                                 |
|_Anything is possible with the right tools and right information_|
-- 
 _________________________________________________________________
| Allan Hansen, Ph.D.                                             |
|    P.O. Box 2423, Cypress, CA 90630, U.S.A.                     |
|                                                                 |
| Work:                              Home:                        |
| Phone: +1-714/952-6015             +1-714/875-8870              |
| Fax:   +1-714/952-6746                                          |
| Email: allan.hansen at ugs.com        hansen at rc.org                |
| WWW:   http://www.ugs.com          http://www.rc.org/           |
|                                                                 |
|_Anything is possible with the right tools and right information_|


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb 26 20:16:34 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 11:16:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual host in subscribe url
In-Reply-To: <4401F510.7000706@movieeditor.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602261116340609a67a30a3@msapiro>

Robin Rowe wrote:
>
>Just wondering, isn't it a bug that by default virtual hosts Mailman 
>namespaces collide? Why should it be considered normal to require a 
>patch to support virtual hosts properly? In the web pages you referred 
>me to there's some griping that cpanel was slow to share the patch. Why 
>no rush to adopt it?

It is not a 'bug' because Mailman was never designed to provide this
support. It is a design limitation. There are plans to redo this for
Mailman 3, so that Mailman 3 will provide virtual hosting support
without having to worry about list name collisions across hosts.

The patches that cPanel and others have done to work around this
restriction have not been accepted as appropriate for the distribution
because they are generally incomplete and a kind of kludge that
requires you to sometimes but not always know that your list's name is
really listname_hostname rather than just listname.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Feb 26 21:13:49 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 12:13:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restricting Members Posts
In-Reply-To: <C027274A.8D09%rmraineypostmaster@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602261213490578e970f3f3@msapiro>

Michael Rainey wrote:
>
>I am working with Mailman 2.14 w/CP where I can set mod flag off for self,
>but with to leave mod flag on for all and use "Approved: <password> which I
>am somehow not  doing  or have not set correctly.

Do you mean 2.1.4? If you mean 2.0.14, the only way to do this is with
an actual header. This is still the best way if your MUA allows you to
add custom headers to your message, you add the header

Approved: password

where 'password' is the actual list admin password.

If you are using 2.1.x, you can instead put this line in the message
body as the first non-blank line of the first text/plain part of the
message. It will be effective there and will be removed.

Prior to Mailman 2.1.7, this line should be followed by a blank line as
the following line was erroneously stripped along with the Approved
line.

Also, prior to 2.1.7 the post needed to be plain text as opposed to
multipart/alternative because the Approved line would not be removed
from other than the first text/plain part. Beginning in 2.1.7, an
attempt is made to remove the Approved line from any text/* parts in
which it is found, but it must still be the first non-blank line in
the first text/plain part, or it won't be recognized or removed.

I.e., this method won't work if you post HTML only.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 27 03:08:44 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 18:08:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <4401DC13.1050605@rmk.co.il>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602261808440625c5aa4ddd@msapiro>

Nigel Ridley wrote:
>
>So now I just have to figure out my next move -- I would really like 
>about 10 or 12 mailing lists for the different languages -- is that 
>possible if I can install Mailman in my 'own space'?


There is no fixed limit to the number of lists a Mailman installation
can support. The practical limitations are the total file space
required, the number of directory entries before searching the
directory becomes an issue and the total amount of email traffic. A
dozen lists would not be an issue at all.


>My web hosting company doesn't see a problem for me to install Mailman:
><quote>
>Mailman is to be installed by a username anyway, as noted in the 
>documentation.  There might be a few symlinks we have to set up for you, 
>but other than that there's no trick to it.
><end quote>


I think there's a bit more to it than that when it comes to web server
and MTA integration, but why not just set up a dozen lists on the
hosted Mailman. I would think that if the host is willing to allow you
to set up your own Mailman, they would be willing to allow you a dozen
lists on the shared Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From justbrits at comcast.net  Mon Feb 27 04:36:52 2006
From: justbrits at comcast.net (Ed)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 21:36:52 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple mailing lists
References: <PC1740200602261808440625c5aa4ddd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <005a01c63b4f$0d16a1c0$6501a8c0@actualshop>

<<they would be willing to allow you a dozen
lists on the shared Mailman.
>>

I would agree, Mark.  BlueHost.com  allows me 100 Lists, if that helps!

Ed


From nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in  Mon Feb 27 04:14:21 2006
From: nlkabilan at ee.iitm.ac.in (Kabilan L)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:44:21 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop these Non-sense mails?
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602261808440625c5aa4ddd@msapiro>
References: <4401DC13.1050605@rmk.co.il>
	<PC1740200602261808440625c5aa4ddd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060227030553.M1561@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>

Hai!!!!

I am getting  lot spam-mails.The following are the examples.
How can i stop these  things!!!

From: carolwhitaker_tc at pacbell.net on Sun Feb 26 21:34:01 2006
Subject: Stocks That Rock
Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list

From: attorney at ci.garland.tx.us on Sun Feb 26 21:58:59 2006
Subject: S0FT C1alis, branded quality
Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list

From: wilmawallace at fordofsouthholland.com on Sun Feb 26 23:41:36 2006
Subject: Photoshop software for 80 % 0ff at Diane's softgroup
Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list

From: mallory.ncamp_bc at land-5.com on Mon Feb 27 01:58:17 2006
Subject: The Stock Profiler
Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list

From: jrobison at 1-800-arkansas.com on Mon Feb 27 03:00:06 2006
Subject: (no subject)
Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list 


Help me Please! Thank You all


Kabilan.L
Department of Electrical Engineering
IIT Madras
Chennai - 600 036
Tamil Nadu, INDIA


"The secret to winning football games is working more as a team, less as
individuals. I play not my 11 best, but my best 11." ->Knute Rockne




From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Feb 27 04:55:22 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 22:55:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop these Non-sense mails?
In-Reply-To: <20060227030553.M1561@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>
References: <4401DC13.1050605@rmk.co.il>	<PC1740200602261808440625c5aa4ddd@msapiro>
	<20060227030553.M1561@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>
Message-ID: <4402782A.5030402@yahoo.com>

Get some good spam prevention software.  Also make sure that your MTA is 
properly validating who is sending you email (check for thinks like 
reverse DNS lookups, RBL listings, SPF, DKIM, etc).

-Jim P.

Kabilan L wrote:
> Hai!!!!
> 
> I am getting  lot spam-mails.The following are the examples.
> How can i stop these  things!!!
> 
> From: carolwhitaker_tc at pacbell.net on Sun Feb 26 21:34:01 2006
> Subject: Stocks That Rock
> Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list
> 
> From: attorney at ci.garland.tx.us on Sun Feb 26 21:58:59 2006
> Subject: S0FT C1alis, branded quality
> Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list
> 
> From: wilmawallace at fordofsouthholland.com on Sun Feb 26 23:41:36 2006
> Subject: Photoshop software for 80 % 0ff at Diane's softgroup
> Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list
> 
> From: mallory.ncamp_bc at land-5.com on Mon Feb 27 01:58:17 2006
> Subject: The Stock Profiler
> Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list
> 
> From: jrobison at 1-800-arkansas.com on Mon Feb 27 03:00:06 2006
> Subject: (no subject)
> Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list 
> 
> 
> Help me Please! Thank You all
> 
> 
> Kabilan.L
> Department of Electrical Engineering
> IIT Madras
> Chennai - 600 036
> Tamil Nadu, INDIA
> 
> 
> "The secret to winning football games is working more as a team, less as
> individuals. I play not my 11 best, but my best 11." ->Knute Rockne
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jimpop%40yahoo.com
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 



From hansen at rc.org  Mon Feb 27 05:26:45 2006
From: hansen at rc.org (Allan Hansen)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 20:26:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members
Message-ID: <p06230918c0282c4b1636@[10.0.1.2]>

Problem:

list_members -f -o <file> <list>
    generates a file of members in the following format:
        name_of_subscriber <email_of_subscriber>

sync_members -f <file> <list>
    takes a file of members in the above format.

add_members -r <file> <list>
    crashes with a traceback when given a file in the above format.

The crash appears to happen in OldStyleMemberships.py
add_members appears to strip all whitespace from the file.

Do I have a mixed bag of incompatible scripts or is this the expected
behavior at this time. I'm running Mac OS X 10.4.5 

The above is not terribly critical, as I can combine
list_members and sync_members to do what I otherwise would do with
just add_members.

Thanks,

	Allan
-- 
 _________________________________________________________________
| Allan Hansen, Ph.D.                                             |
|    P.O. Box 2423, Cypress, CA 90630, U.S.A.                     |
|                                                                 |
| Work:                              Home:                        |
| Phone: +1-714/952-6015             +1-714/875-8870              |
| Fax:   +1-714/952-6746                                          |
| Email: allan.hansen at ugs.com        hansen at rc.org                |
| WWW:   http://www.ugs.com          http://www.rc.org/           |
|                                                                 |
|_Anything is possible with the right tools and right information_|


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Feb 27 06:18:07 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 23:18:07 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members
In-Reply-To: <p06230918c0282c4b1636@10.0.1.2>
References: <p06230918c0282c4b1636@10.0.1.2>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602262118p38412b93o471fa2a1316fb156@mail.gmail.com>

I don't know the answer, but you could always use a bit of perl glue
to convert the first format to something add_members will understand
more readily...

If I knew what the second part was, I'd offer a script to do so. As a
stopgap, you can get just a list of addresses by:

cat <file> | cut -d'<' -f 2 | cut -d'>' -f 1
(Append this with '> <file>' without quotes if you want to save it
back to some file)

- Patrick Bogen

On 2/26/06, Allan Hansen <hansen at rc.org> wrote:
> Problem:
>
> list_members -f -o <file> <list>
>     generates a file of members in the following format:
>         name_of_subscriber <email_of_subscriber>
>
> sync_members -f <file> <list>
>     takes a file of members in the above format.
>
> add_members -r <file> <list>
>     crashes with a traceback when given a file in the above format.
>
> The crash appears to happen in OldStyleMemberships.py
> add_members appears to strip all whitespace from the file.
>
> Do I have a mixed bag of incompatible scripts or is this the expected
> behavior at this time. I'm running Mac OS X 10.4.5
>
> The above is not terribly critical, as I can combine
> list_members and sync_members to do what I otherwise would do with
> just add_members.
>
> Thanks,
>
>         Allan
> --
>  _________________________________________________________________
> | Allan Hansen, Ph.D.                                             |
> |    P.O. Box 2423, Cypress, CA 90630, U.S.A.                     |
> |                                                                 |
> | Work:                              Home:                        |
> | Phone: +1-714/952-6015             +1-714/875-8870              |
> | Fax:   +1-714/952-6746                                          |
> | Email: allan.hansen at ugs.com        hansen at rc.org                |
> | WWW:   http://www.ugs.com          http://www.rc.org/           |
> |                                                                 |
> |_Anything is possible with the right tools and right information_|
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pdbogen%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


--
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Feb 27 06:21:44 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 23:21:44 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop these Non-sense mails?
In-Reply-To: <4402782A.5030402@yahoo.com>
References: <4401DC13.1050605@rmk.co.il>
	<PC1740200602261808440625c5aa4ddd@msapiro>
	<20060227030553.M1561@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>
	<4402782A.5030402@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00602262121l3246ffabt6d2fcb2316f13cab@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/26/06, Jim Popovitch <jimpop at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Get some good spam prevention software.  Also make sure that your MTA is
> properly validating who is sending you email (check for thinks like
> reverse DNS lookups, RBL listings, SPF, DKIM, etc).
Jim's presented you with what is basically the bottom line.

> Kabilan L wrote:
> > Hai!!!!
> >
> > I am getting  lot spam-mails.The following are the examples.
> > How can i stop these  things!!!
Also, it should be noted that your issue is not really a Mailman
issue, but rather a <insert your MTA here> issue.

- Patrick Bogen


From hansen at rc.org  Mon Feb 27 06:31:11 2006
From: hansen at rc.org (Allan Hansen)
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 21:31:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00602262118p38412b93o471fa2a1316fb156@mail.gmail.com>
References: <p06230918c0282c4b1636@10.0.1.2>
	<6fbe3da00602262118p38412b93o471fa2a1316fb156@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p0623091ac0283da226b7@[10.0.1.2]>

Thank you, Patrick, but I do need the subscriber names in the
lists. Cutting them out would not work. Using bin/list_members, Perl
and bin/sync_members lets me do what I need to do. I was just wondering
about the apparent inability of add_members to accept names.
The help for the command does not indicate a way to input names, and
the Python code itself appears to actively reject the notion.

Allan

At 23:18 -0600 2/26/06, Patrick Bogen wrote:
>I don't know the answer, but you could always use a bit of perl glue
>to convert the first format to something add_members will understand
>more readily...
>
>If I knew what the second part was, I'd offer a script to do so. As a
>stopgap, you can get just a list of addresses by:
>
>cat <file> | cut -d'<' -f 2 | cut -d'>' -f 1
>(Append this with '> <file>' without quotes if you want to save it
>back to some file)
>
>- Patrick Bogen
>
>On 2/26/06, Allan Hansen <hansen at rc.org> wrote:
>> Problem:
>>
>> list_members -f -o <file> <list>
>>     generates a file of members in the following format:
>>         name_of_subscriber <email_of_subscriber>
>>
>> sync_members -f <file> <list>
>>     takes a file of members in the above format.
>>
>> add_members -r <file> <list>
>>     crashes with a traceback when given a file in the above format.
>>
>> The crash appears to happen in OldStyleMemberships.py
>> add_members appears to strip all whitespace from the file.
>>
>> Do I have a mixed bag of incompatible scripts or is this the expected
>> behavior at this time. I'm running Mac OS X 10.4.5
>>
>> The above is not terribly critical, as I can combine
>> list_members and sync_members to do what I otherwise would do with
>> just add_members.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>         Allan
>> --
>>  _________________________________________________________________
>> | Allan Hansen, Ph.D.                                             |
>> |    P.O. Box 2423, Cypress, CA 90630, U.S.A.                     |
>> |                                                                 |
>> | Work:                              Home:                        |
>> | Phone: +1-714/952-6015             +1-714/875-8870              |
>> | Fax:   +1-714/952-6746                                          |
>> | Email: allan.hansen at ugs.com        hansen at rc.org                |
>> | WWW:   http://www.ugs.com          http://www.rc.org/           |
>> |                                                                 |
>> |_Anything is possible with the right tools and right information_|
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list
>> Mailman-Users at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/pdbogen%40gmail.com
>>
>> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>>
>
>
>--
>- Patrick Bogen

-- 
 _________________________________________________________________
| Allan Hansen, Ph.D.                                             |
|    P.O. Box 2423, Cypress, CA 90630, U.S.A.                     |
|                                                                 |
| Work:                              Home:                        |
| Phone: +1-714/952-6015             +1-714/875-8870              |
| Fax:   +1-714/952-6746                                          |
| Email: allan.hansen at ugs.com        hansen at rc.org                |
| WWW:   http://www.ugs.com          http://www.rc.org/           |
|                                                                 |
|_Anything is possible with the right tools and right information_|


From apap+mailman-users at auth.gr  Mon Feb 27 13:04:57 2006
From: apap+mailman-users at auth.gr (Apostolis Papayanakis)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 14:04:57 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Fwd: problem migrating mailman 2.0.8 to 2.1.7]
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602201057080671ad2e30c7@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200602201057080671ad2e30c7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4402EAE9.8020501@auth.gr>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Apostolis Papayanakis wrote:
>> I have trouble upgrading an old installation of mailman-2.0.8 into mailman-2.1.7 (Gentoo Linux with Python 2.4.2).
>> While installing the new version on top of the old, the "update" utility is invoked, but then it fails with
>> "AttributeError: topics". No list gets migrated. The same error is produced if I use "withlist" with any old list.
> 
> 
> Something has gone wrong in the original update process. Apparently at
> this point, you have 'current version lists' without a topics
> attribute. This should not happen.
> 
> 
>> Recreating the lists seems to loose too much user configuration, although it is fairly easy to accomplish.
>> The system currently serves approx 60 mailing lists.
>>
>> I found relevant discussions on this list, but not any really helpful answers (yet)
>> How can I overcome the "AttributeError: topics" error? Is it trivial?
> 
> 
> Try the following:
> 
> Go to the lists/listname/ directory for one of your old lists. Then
> delete all the config.* files except for the original 2.0.8 config.db.
> Then try 'bin/withlist -l listname' on that list.
> 
> If that works, that list should then be OK.
> 
> You may be able to accomplish the same for all lists by doing the same
> file deletion and then running bin/update or 'bin/update -f'.
> 

In order to migrate mailman-2.0.8 to mailman-2.1.7 I had to do it in two 
steps:

I first upgraded from mailman-2.0.8 to mailman-2.0.13 and immediatelly 
after I upgraded from mailman-2.0.13 to mailman-2.1.7.

The problem went away with this two step migration.


Thanks everybody

Apostolis Papayanakis



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 27 17:13:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:13:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members
In-Reply-To: <p06230918c0282c4b1636@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602270813160875527fd45b@msapiro>

Allan Hansen wrote:
>
>add_members -r <file> <list>
>    crashes with a traceback when given a file in the above format.
>
>The crash appears to happen in OldStyleMemberships.py
>add_members appears to strip all whitespace from the file.

Please provide a traceback for analysis. (Note that despite the perhaps
misleading comment, line.strip() only strips leading and trailing
whitespace, not all whitespace.)

Also, if add_members produces any output prior to the traceback, the
last line or two of that and the corresponding and following bit of
the input file might help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 27 17:38:18 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:38:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members
In-Reply-To: <p0623091ac0283da226b7@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602270838180406d03528e8@msapiro>

Allan Hansen wrote:

>The help for the command does not indicate a way to input names, and
>the Python code itself appears to actively reject the notion.

The code is not trying to reject 'names'. The 'name <addr>' format
produced by list_members should work for add_members. Actually, any of
the formats in
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.044.htp
should work. AFAIK, the only command script of this type which doesn't
accept names is remove_members.

Please provide the information I requested in my prior reply so we can
figure out why this doesn't work for you.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 27 17:42:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:42:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00602262118p38412b93o471fa2a1316fb156@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006022708421008598600d905@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
>If I knew what the second part was, I'd offer a script to do so. As a
>stopgap, you can get just a list of addresses by:
>
>cat <file> | cut -d'<' -f 2 | cut -d'>' -f 1

And you could also just omit the '-f' option from the original
list_members command. :-)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Mon Feb 27 17:48:02 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:48:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating htdig
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060227082230.0568c320@207.99.63.98>

I've spent a lot of time over the last few days trying to make htdig work 
with my installation of mailman 2.1.5. I installed the patches and rebuilt 
everything, set up the configuration, rebuilt my archives using arch and 
everything seemed (mostly) fine until I tried to index the archive and do a 
search.

The indexing problem I have is an htdig issue (segmentation fault while 
running htfuzzy) so I won't go into that.

Even with that problem during the index process, I can use htsearch from 
the command line and it gives me a valid search response. When I try to do 
a search from the form on the archive index page, it bombs badly and just 
gives me a useless error message (something like Search failed 12).

I noticed in the documentation that the 3.2 version of htdig is not 
supported by the patches for using htdig with mailman. I've tried rolling 
it back to version 3.1.6 but am having difficulty getting it to install so 
it looks like for the moment I am stuck with 3.2

Is there any way to get this patch to work with the 3.2 version of htdig? 
Is there any plan to support this in the future?

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 27 18:17:30 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:17:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating htdig
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060227082230.0568c320@207.99.63.98>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602270917300296ab909a86@msapiro>

Dragon wrote:
>
>Is there any way to get this patch to work with the 3.2 version of htdig? 
>Is there any plan to support this in the future?

I can't speak to plans for modifying Richard Barrett's patches, but
integrating archive search is definitely on the list for Mailman 3.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Mon Feb 27 18:33:33 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:33:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating htdig
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602270917300296ab909a86@msapiro>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20060227082230.0568c320@207.99.63.98>
	<PC1740200602270917300296ab909a86@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060227092835.056b1a58@207.99.63.98>

Mark Sapiro sent the message below at 09:17 2/27/2006:
>Dragon wrote:
> >
> >Is there any way to get this patch to work with the 3.2 version of htdig?
> >Is there any plan to support this in the future?
>
>I can't speak to plans for modifying Richard Barrett's patches, but
>integrating archive search is definitely on the list for Mailman 3.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

What is the expected time frame for release of Mailman 3?

Where can I find more info or a road map for this release?

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Feb 27 18:55:38 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:55:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating htdig
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060227092835.056b1a58@207.99.63.98>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602270955380140a8272ed2@msapiro>

Dragon wrote:
>
>What is the expected time frame for release of Mailman 3?


As with most volunteer based projects, "when it's ready". I know that's
not a satisfactory answer, but with a project of this nature that's
anything farther out than 'imminent', that's the best we can do. Any
attempt to be more precise is likely to be wrong in one direction or
the other.


>Where can I find more info or a road map for this release?


Start at http://mailman.sourceforge.net/devs.html

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Mon Feb 27 20:47:29 2006
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 08:47:29 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop these Non-sense mails?
Message-ID: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A3736AD4E@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

I would suggest;

1) Sendmail ~ has settings to filter spam like if the domain (DNS
lookup) does not exist, reject it. Other smtp/mta applications have
similar settings. Do a google, for these things, there is lots of info.
2) The single most effective anti-spam system I have seen is grey
listing, take a look at it.
3) Also setting mailman to not take posts from anyone but subscribers.

Regards

Steven

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+steven.jones=vuw.ac.nz at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+steven.jones=vuw.ac.nz at python.org] On
Behalf Of Jim Popovitch
Sent: Monday, 27 February 2006 4:55 p.m.
To: Kabilan L
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: *****SPAM***** Re: [Mailman-Users] How to stop these Non-sense
mails?

Get some good spam prevention software.  Also make sure that your MTA is

properly validating who is sending you email (check for thinks like 
reverse DNS lookups, RBL listings, SPF, DKIM, etc).

-Jim P.

Kabilan L wrote:
> Hai!!!!
> 
> I am getting  lot spam-mails.The following are the examples.
> How can i stop these  things!!!
> 
> From: carolwhitaker_tc at pacbell.net on Sun Feb 26 21:34:01 2006
> Subject: Stocks That Rock
> Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list
> 
> From: attorney at ci.garland.tx.us on Sun Feb 26 21:58:59 2006
> Subject: S0FT C1alis, branded quality
> Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list
> 
> From: wilmawallace at fordofsouthholland.com on Sun Feb 26 23:41:36 2006
> Subject: Photoshop software for 80 % 0ff at Diane's softgroup
> Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list
> 
> From: mallory.ncamp_bc at land-5.com on Mon Feb 27 01:58:17 2006
> Subject: The Stock Profiler
> Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list
> 
> From: jrobison at 1-800-arkansas.com on Mon Feb 27 03:00:06 2006
> Subject: (no subject)
> Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list 
> 
> 
> Help me Please! Thank You all
> 
> 
> Kabilan.L
> Department of Electrical Engineering
> IIT Madras
> Chennai - 600 036
> Tamil Nadu, INDIA
> 
> 
> "The secret to winning football games is working more as a team, less
as
> individuals. I play not my 11 best, but my best 11." ->Knute Rockne
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jimpop%40yahoo.com
> 
> Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/steven.jones%40vuw.
ac.nz

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From jonathan at nerds.net  Mon Feb 27 20:48:22 2006
From: jonathan at nerds.net (Jonathan Dill)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 14:48:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to stop these Non-sense mails?
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00602262121l3246ffabt6d2fcb2316f13cab@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4401DC13.1050605@rmk.co.il>	<PC1740200602261808440625c5aa4ddd@msapiro>	<20060227030553.M1561@mail-rly.ee.iitm.ac.in>	<4402782A.5030402@yahoo.com>
	<6fbe3da00602262121l3246ffabt6d2fcb2316f13cab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44035786.20606@nerds.net>

Two things you can do with Mailman though, depending on your version of 
mailman:

1. if you don't need to allow non-members to post to the list, you can 
set the default action for non-member posts to "discard"

2. set up something like SpamAssassin, and then set up filters based on 
the SpamAssassin headers, for example "X-Spam-Flag: YES" is just discarded

I have #1 and #2 set up, so 99% of the time I just get an "autodiscard" 
notification, but I don't have to go into the admin interface and 
discard the posts there, so it saves a little time, plus these garbage 
posts aren't "piling up" waiting for me to moderate them.

Lastly--this is a web server thing and not a mailman thing--you may want 
to improve the security of your web server set up to prevent spammers 
from collecting the mailman admin addresses from the web interface, for 
example switch to SSL with at least a self-signed certificate, and 
restrict access to the web interface if possible.

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>On 2/26/06, Jim Popovitch <jimpop at yahoo.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>Get some good spam prevention software.  Also make sure that your MTA is
>>properly validating who is sending you email (check for thinks like
>>reverse DNS lookups, RBL listings, SPF, DKIM, etc).
>>    
>>
>Jim's presented you with what is basically the bottom line.
>
>  
>
>>Kabilan L wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>Hai!!!!
>>>
>>>I am getting  lot spam-mails.The following are the examples.
>>>How can i stop these  things!!!
>>>      
>>>
>Also, it should be noted that your issue is not really a Mailman
>issue, but rather a <insert your MTA here> issue.
>
>- Patrick Bogen
>
-- 
Jonathan Dill - The NERDS Group
Network Engineering & Resource Development Specialists, LLC
Cell: (240) 994-0012 Main: (301) 622-7995
Web: http://www.nerds.net



From jeff.donsbach at gmail.com  Mon Feb 27 21:14:28 2006
From: jeff.donsbach at gmail.com (Jeff Donsbach)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 15:14:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating htdig
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602270955380140a8272ed2@msapiro>
References: <6.2.1.2.2.20060227092835.056b1a58@207.99.63.98>
	<PC1740200602270955380140a8272ed2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <22976ef80602271214o9fa1a54lf042bf2852c50cbd@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/27/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> As with most volunteer based projects, "when it's ready". I know that's
> not a satisfactory answer, but with a project of this nature that's
> anything farther out than 'imminent', that's the best we can do. Any
> attempt to be more precise is likely to be wrong in one direction or
> the other.
>
> >Where can I find more info or a road map for this release?
>
> Start at http://mailman.sourceforge.net/devs.html
>

Based on the lack of traffic to the mailman3-dev mailing list, is it a
safe assumption that Mailman3 development is stalled? (Please, devs,
don't take this as criticism. It is just a question).

Jeff D


From tomj at wps.com  Mon Feb 27 22:22:27 2006
From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 13:22:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web interface to Mailman list (read, reply, post...)
Message-ID: <1141075347.15010.19.camel@fiche.wps.com>

Hello MR/MRS/MS.                 ALL  ,

I'm converting an old, crufty, proprietary, long-lived mailinglist to
Mailman. Mailman doesn't provide one nifty feature this old (practically
security-free) package does: a web interface to list contents (reply and
post, as well as read).

(Many users do not have computers capable of, or are uncomfortable with,
substantial email handling. They're smart and techie, just not in
computing/networking. You can skip the obvious 'upgrade!' remarks, I've
heard 'em all already.)


Generic "webmail" bolted to a single Mailman list, on the host machine,
authenticating from MM's cleartext password, would be perfect. Only
read, reply, post, search are needed; delete, save, other
mailbox-management tools are not needed.

Such a thing seems "obvious" but I can't find it, I could simply be
using the wrong search terms (or paradigm).

Before I go hack an existing webmail package, does such a thing already
exist? I've cobbled up a post module, authing from the MM file, but I'm
terribly lazy. 

signed

tomj



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Mon Feb 27 22:48:36 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 13:48:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web interface to Mailman list (read, reply,
 post...)
In-Reply-To: <1141075347.15010.19.camel@fiche.wps.com>
References: <1141075347.15010.19.camel@fiche.wps.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060227134047.0569b368@207.99.63.98>

Tom Jennings sent the message below at 13:22 2/27/2006:

>Generic "webmail" bolted to a single Mailman list, on the host machine,
>authenticating from MM's cleartext password, would be perfect. Only
>read, reply, post, search are needed; delete, save, other
>mailbox-management tools are not needed.
>
>Such a thing seems "obvious" but I can't find it, I could simply be
>using the wrong search terms (or paradigm).
>
>Before I go hack an existing webmail package, does such a thing already
>exist? I've cobbled up a post module, authing from the MM file, but I'm
>terribly lazy.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Sadly, what you want does not exist, which is why you can't find it. 
Mailman does not have any sort of built-in webmail capability. Personally, 
I'd love to see something like that and have been thinking about a solution 
for my server but have not gotten very far with it as I have had other 
things to keep me busy.

I'm sure it can be done, but it could be quite a pain to make it work. Then 
again... I can see a way to use a simple web form and CGI script to do the 
replies and posting.



Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From tomj at wps.com  Tue Feb 28 00:27:46 2006
From: tomj at wps.com (Tom Jennings)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 15:27:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web interface to Mailman list (read, reply,
	post...)
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060227134047.0569b368@207.99.63.98>
References: <1141075347.15010.19.camel@fiche.wps.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20060227134047.0569b368@207.99.63.98>
Message-ID: <1141082862.15010.27.camel@fiche.wps.com>

On Mon, 2006-02-27 at 13:48, Dragon wrote:


> Sadly, what you want does not exist, which is why you can't find it. 
> Mailman does not have any sort of built-in webmail capability.

Thanks for the unfortunate reply :-)

I realize that MM doesn't contain such a thing, I was hoping someone
would know of an external package that does this.

I was hoping I was just being an idiot and overlooking an obvious
package; that's the easiest thing to fix.



From hansen at rc.org  Tue Feb 28 06:23:51 2006
From: hansen at rc.org (Allan Hansen)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 21:23:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200602270813160875527fd45b@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200602270813160875527fd45b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06230906c029890fe455@[134.244.96.80]>

At 8:13 -0800 2/27/06, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>Allan Hansen wrote:
>>
>>add_members -r <file> <list>
>>    crashes with a traceback when given a file in the above format.
>>
>>The crash appears to happen in OldStyleMemberships.py
>>add_members appears to strip all whitespace from the file.
>
>Please provide a traceback for analysis. (Note that despite the perhaps
>misleading comment, line.strip() only strips leading and trailing
>whitespace, not all whitespace.)

Sure, Mark (my apologies for misinterpreting what line.strip() does. 

Here goes:

I'm starting with an empty list called Test and a file, Long,
with a subscriber (me) in long format, and another file, Short,
with a subscriber (me) in short format:

// Empty list
$/usr/share/mailman/bin/list_members -f Test
<nothing>

// The files Long and Short
$cat Long
Allan Hansen <hansen at rc.org>

$cat Short
hansen at rc.org

// Here's the traceback from add_members:
$add_members -r Long Test
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/add_members", line 277, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/add_members", line 257, in main
    addall(mlist, nmembers, 0, send_welcome_msg, s, enable_mail)
  File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/add_members", line 157, in addall
    mlist.setDeliveryStatus(member, MemberAdaptor.ENABLED)
  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 338, in setDeliveryStatus
    self.__assertIsMember(member)
  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 113, in __assertIsMember
    raise Errors.NotAMemberError, member
Mailman.Errors.NotAMemberError: Allan Hansen <hansen at rc.org>

// The command did not add the address:
$/usr/share/mailman/bin/list_members -f Test
<nothing>

// Now let's use the sync instead. No problem here:
$/usr/share/mailman/bin/sync_members -f Long Test
Added  : Allan Hansen <hansen at rc.org>

// The address is indeed added:
$/usr/share/mailman/bin/list_members -f Test
Allan Hansen <hansen at rc.org>

// Now, let's try removing same. We have a problem:
$/usr/share/mailman/bin/remove_members -f Long Test
No such member: Allan Hansen <hansen at rc.org>

// Indeed, the command failed:
$/usr/share/mailman/bin/list_members -f Test
Allan Hansen <hansen at rc.org>

// But we can use the short format. There's no output from this command.
$/usr/share/mailman/bin/remove_members -f Short Test
<nothing>

// But the command did succeed:
$/usr/share/mailman/bin/list_members -f Test
<nothing>


The above shows that 'add_members' and 'remove_members' don't understand
the long format that is readily accepted by 'sync_members' and output by
'list_members'.

Allan

-- 
 _________________________________________________________________
| Allan Hansen, Ph.D.                                             |
|    P.O. Box 2423, Cypress, CA 90630, U.S.A.                     |
|                                                                 |
| Work:                              Home:                        |
| Phone: +1-714/952-6015             +1-714/875-8870              |
| Fax:   +1-714/952-6746                                          |
| Email: allan.hansen at ugs.com        hansen at rc.org                |
| WWW:   http://www.ugs.com          http://www.rc.org/           |
|                                                                 |
|_Anything is possible with the right tools and right information_|


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 28 07:20:39 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 22:20:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members
In-Reply-To: <p06230906c029890fe455@[134.244.96.80]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602272220390750e970f495@msapiro>

Allan Hansen wrote:
>
>I'm starting with an empty list called Test and a file, Long,
>with a subscriber (me) in long format, and another file, Short,
>with a subscriber (me) in short format:
>
>// Empty list
>$/usr/share/mailman/bin/list_members -f Test
><nothing>
>
>// The files Long and Short
>$cat Long
>Allan Hansen <hansen at rc.org>
>
>$cat Short
>hansen at rc.org
>
>// Here's the traceback from add_members:
>$add_members -r Long Test
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/add_members", line 277, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/add_members", line 257, in main
>    addall(mlist, nmembers, 0, send_welcome_msg, s, enable_mail)
>  File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/add_members", line 157, in addall
>    mlist.setDeliveryStatus(member, MemberAdaptor.ENABLED)
>  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 338, in setDeliveryStatus
>    self.__assertIsMember(member)
>  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 113, in __assertIsMember
>    raise Errors.NotAMemberError, member
>Mailman.Errors.NotAMemberError: Allan Hansen <hansen at rc.org>


This is apparently some Apple modified add_members script. The line
numbers don't correlate with any distributed Mailman 2.1.x, and the
standard script does not call the setDeliveryStatus() method at all.


<snip>
>
>// Now, let's try removing same. We have a problem:
>$/usr/share/mailman/bin/remove_members -f Long Test
>No such member: Allan Hansen <hansen at rc.org>


Yes, I mentioned this previously. remove_members does not accept the
'long' format, but then if you're removing a member, you probably
don't care about the 'name'.


>The above shows that 'add_members' and 'remove_members' don't understand
>the long format that is readily accepted by 'sync_members' and output by
>'list_members'.


Well, my add_members does. I think Apple broke yours. You might try
getting a recent add_members from
<http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/mailman/mailman/bin/add_members>,
and see if that works for you.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mdunston at music.vt.edu  Tue Feb 28 08:31:27 2006
From: mdunston at music.vt.edu (michael dunston)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 02:31:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating htdig
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060227082230.0568c320@207.99.63.98>
Message-ID: <r02010500-1045-3B08151AA82C11DAA2DA00112475E44C@[10.0.1.2]>

dragon at crimson-dragon.com, 11:48 AM (-0800) Monday, February 27, 2006:

> I noticed in the documentation that the 3.2 version of htdig is not 
> supported by the patches for using htdig with mailman. I've tried rolling 
> it back to version 3.1.6 but am having difficulty getting it to install so 
> it looks like for the moment I am stuck with 3.2
> 
> Is there any way to get this patch to work with the 3.2 version of htdig? 
> Is there any plan to support this in the future?

Not this is necessarily of much help, but I was in a similar situation recently and ended up giving up on htdig entirely and using swish-e instead.   It wasn't as easy to set up (as htdig integration) but it works and seems much faster to use. 

-- 
-- Michael Dunston
-- Music and Technology
-- <http://www.music.vt.edu/>
-- Virginia Tech Department of Music
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --


From hansen at rc.org  Tue Feb 28 09:48:08 2006
From: hansen at rc.org (Allan Hansen)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 00:48:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members
Message-ID: <p0623090cc029beab74f9@[134.244.96.80]>

Mark,

Bingo! 

The script from the sourceforge site works fine. Here are the
diffs between that version and the version that Apple is providing. Note the
change of address of Foundation and the ill-fated option in the Apple-supplied 
version to disable mail for the new subscriber. (< is official version, > is
Apple's version).

A bit of nosing around on the sourceforge site shows that the address was
changed on the main cvs branch from version 2.16 to version 2.17 on 8/17/05.
The copyright notice on both 2.17 and Apple's version are both 1998-2003.
None of the versions 2003 and later has Apple's changes, as you also noted.

So Apple's version does, indeed, appear to be an Apple hack gone awry.
I suppose it could be fixed by extracting the address before sending
the member to setDeliveryStatus, but I'll refrain from that.

Thank you for the sourceforge reference. It will simplify my scripts.

Allan



The differences:

17c17
< # Foundation, Inc., 51 Franklin Street, Fifth Floor, Boston, MA 02110-1301, USA.
---
> # Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA.
54a55,58
>     --enable-mail=<y|n>
>     -e <y|n>
>         Enable user mail deilvery options.
> 
79a84
> from Mailman import MemberAdaptor
127c132
< def addall(mlist, members, digest, ack, outfp):
---
> def addall(mlist, members, digest, ack, outfp, enable):
137a143,146
>             if enable == 1:
>                 mlist.setDeliveryStatus(member, MemberAdaptor.ENABLED)
>             else:
>                 mlist.setDeliveryStatus(member, MemberAdaptor.BYADMIN)
146a156,160
>             if enable == 1:
>                 mlist.setDeliveryStatus(member, MemberAdaptor.ENABLED)
>             else:
>                 mlist.setDeliveryStatus(member, MemberAdaptor.BYADMIN)
> 
149d162
< 
153c166
<                                    'a:n:r:d:w:h',
---
>                                    'a:n:r:e:d:w:h',
154a168
>                                     'enable-mail=',
168a183
>     enable_mail = 1
184a200,206
>         elif opt in ('-e', '--enable-mail'):
>             if arg.lower()[0] == 'y':
>                 enable_mail = 1
>             elif arg.lower()[0] == 'n':
>                 enable_mail = 0
>             else:
>                 usage(1, _('Bad argument to -3/--enable-mail: %(arg)s'))
235c257
<             addall(mlist, nmembers, 0, send_welcome_msg, s)
---
>             addall(mlist, nmembers, 0, send_welcome_msg, s, enable_mail)
238c260
<             addall(mlist, dmembers, 1, send_welcome_msg, s)
---
>             addall(mlist, dmembers, 1, send_welcome_msg, s, enable_mail)
256d277
< 






At 22:20 -0800 2/27/06, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>Allan Hansen wrote:
>>
>>I'm starting with an empty list called Test and a file, Long,
>>with a subscriber (me) in long format, and another file, Short,
>>with a subscriber (me) in short format:
>>
>>// Empty list
>>$/usr/share/mailman/bin/list_members -f Test
>><nothing>
>>
>>// The files Long and Short
>>$cat Long
>>Allan Hansen <hansen at rc.org>
>>
>>$cat Short
>>hansen at rc.org
>>
>>// Here's the traceback from add_members:
>>$add_members -r Long Test
>>Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/add_members", line 277, in ?
>>    main()
>>  File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/add_members", line 257, in main
>>    addall(mlist, nmembers, 0, send_welcome_msg, s, enable_mail)
>>  File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/add_members", line 157, in addall
>>    mlist.setDeliveryStatus(member, MemberAdaptor.ENABLED)
>>  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 338, in setDeliveryStatus
>>    self.__assertIsMember(member)
>>  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 113, in __assertIsMember
>>    raise Errors.NotAMemberError, member
>>Mailman.Errors.NotAMemberError: Allan Hansen <hansen at rc.org>
>
>
>This is apparently some Apple modified add_members script. The line
>numbers don't correlate with any distributed Mailman 2.1.x, and the
>standard script does not call the setDeliveryStatus() method at all.
>
>
><snip>
>>
>>// Now, let's try removing same. We have a problem:
>>$/usr/share/mailman/bin/remove_members -f Long Test
>>No such member: Allan Hansen <hansen at rc.org>
>
>
>Yes, I mentioned this previously. remove_members does not accept the
>'long' format, but then if you're removing a member, you probably
>don't care about the 'name'.
>
>
>>The above shows that 'add_members' and 'remove_members' don't understand
>>the long format that is readily accepted by 'sync_members' and output by
>>'list_members'.
>
>
>Well, my add_members does. I think Apple broke yours. You might try
>getting a recent add_members from
><http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/mailman/mailman/bin/add_members>,
>and see if that works for you.
>
>-- 
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-- 
 _________________________________________________________________
| Allan Hansen, Ph.D.                                             |
|    P.O. Box 2423, Cypress, CA 90630, U.S.A.                     |
|                                                                 |
| Work:                              Home:                        |
| Phone: +1-714/952-6015             +1-714/875-8870              |
| Fax:   +1-714/952-6746                                          |
| Email: allan.hansen at ugs.com        hansen at rc.org                |
| WWW:   http://www.ugs.com          http://www.rc.org/           |
|                                                                 |
|_Anything is possible with the right tools and right information_|


From geethkrish_t at fastmail.net  Tue Feb 28 12:28:23 2006
From: geethkrish_t at fastmail.net (geetha)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 03:28:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reg CallId in CRCX
Message-ID: <1141126103.13595.255451638@webmail.messagingengine.com>





Hi all,
Can any of you tell me how to validate the below scenario?

"Ensure that the IUT sends CRCX including Callid which is unique within
the list of call agents that control the same gateway."

IUT in the above scenario is Call Agent(MGC).
Kindly tell me the test procedure for the above scenario?

Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Geetha.

-- 
  geetha
  geethkrish_t at fastmail.net

-- 
http://www.fastmail.fm - I mean, what is it about a decent email service?



From geethkrish_t at fastmail.net  Tue Feb 28 12:31:37 2006
From: geethkrish_t at fastmail.net (geetha)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 03:31:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MGCP + Reg CallId in CRCX
Message-ID: <1141126297.13951.255451849@webmail.messagingengine.com>



Hi all,
Can any of you tell me how to validate the below scenario?

"Ensure that the IUT sends CRCX including Callid which is unique within
the list of call agents that control the same gateway."

IUT in the above scenario is Call Agent(MGC).
Kindly tell me the test procedure for the above scenario?

Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Geetha.
-- 
  geetha
  geethkrish_t at fastmail.net

-- 
http://www.fastmail.fm - A no graphics, no pop-ups email service



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 28 13:21:27 2006
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 07:21:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MGCP + Reg CallId in CRCX
In-Reply-To: <1141126297.13951.255451849@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1141126297.13951.255451849@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <44044047.80301@yahoo.com>

What make/model of MGC?  Also, do you know that it is presently not unique?

-Jim P.

geetha wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> Can any of you tell me how to validate the below scenario?
> 
> "Ensure that the IUT sends CRCX including Callid which is unique within
> the list of call agents that control the same gateway."
> 
> IUT in the above scenario is Call Agent(MGC).
> Kindly tell me the test procedure for the above scenario?
> 
> Any help will be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Geetha.



From dave.yeats at gmail.com  Tue Feb 28 14:50:19 2006
From: dave.yeats at gmail.com (Dave Yeats)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 07:50:19 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about g-zipped mail archives -
	attachment folders/files?
In-Reply-To: <6c8c9b030602280544s52828b81vdbfa0135a621bb6f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6c8c9b030602280544s52828b81vdbfa0135a621bb6f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6c8c9b030602280550k1babed55gb747d0e7a447ce59@mail.gmail.com>

I'm looking at messages posted to a mailman-driven open-source
development email list (on mail.gnome.org/archives), and I've
downloaded the g-zip archives I want.  When I extract the files, I get
one .txt file, and one or more "attachment" folders (with the suffix
.txt.attachment00, .txt.attachment01, etc.) which, in turn, contain
additional "attachment" files (with suffixes
.txt.attachment00.attachment00,
.txt.attachment00.attachment01, etc.).

I don't think these are attachments in the usual sense of "attachment"
in email programs.  I don't think other file attachments are allowed
on this list.

It looks like the the first .txt document (at the root) contains all
of the messages, but I was hoping someone could verify that for me.

Have you ever dealt with this?  Any help you could offer would be appreciated.

Dave Yeats


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 28 17:10:02 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 08:10:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about g-zipped mail archives
	-attachment folders/files?
In-Reply-To: <6c8c9b030602280550k1babed55gb747d0e7a447ce59@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602280810020187c2879f5d@msapiro>

Dave Yeats wrote:

>I'm looking at messages posted to a mailman-driven open-source
>development email list (on mail.gnome.org/archives), and I've
>downloaded the g-zip archives I want.  When I extract the files, I get
>one .txt file, and one or more "attachment" folders (with the suffix
>.txt.attachment00, .txt.attachment01, etc.) which, in turn, contain
>additional "attachment" files (with suffixes
>.txt.attachment00.attachment00,
>.txt.attachment00.attachment01, etc.).


This is not standard mailman. In the distributed mailman, the monthly
.gz files if any are just gzipped versions of the .txt files which in
turn just contain flattened versions of the messages in the pipermail
HTML archive.

These messages also may contain plain text of the form


-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: xxxx.txt
Url:
http://www.example.com/pipermail/list1/attachments/20060102/f04f72ba/attachment.txt

-------------- next part --------------

but they don't contain the contents of that attachment.txt file.


>I don't think these are attachments in the usual sense of "attachment"
>in email programs.  I don't think other file attachments are allowed
>on this list.
>
>It looks like the the first .txt document (at the root) contains all
>of the messages, but I was hoping someone could verify that for me.


I looked at a couple of archives on mail.gnome.org and the ones I
looked at only have one file in the yyyy-mmmm.txt.gz archive named
yyyy-mmmmm.txt.attachment00 which appears to be just the normal
yyyy-mmmmm.txt file except that the headers of the first message were
missing and way more headers were 'kept' - perhaps all of them.

Also, a .gz (gzipped) file does not contain a hierarchy of folders and
files unless it is a gzip of a .tar or other archive. Where are these
coming from in your case?

This looks like some mail.gnome.org specific way of dealing with the
plain text archive.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 28 17:37:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 08:37:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members
In-Reply-To: <p0623090cc029beab74f9@[134.244.96.80]>
Message-ID: <PC17402006022808374106402e1efe09@msapiro>

Allan Hansen wrote:
>
>So Apple's version does, indeed, appear to be an Apple hack gone awry.
>I suppose it could be fixed by extracting the address before sending
>the member to setDeliveryStatus, but I'll refrain from that.


Yes, but why? See below for fix, but the hack adds the --enabled option
to set the added members delivery status to enabled or disabled by
admin. If the member is truly added, delivery is already enabled, so
this is unnecessary. I suppose if you wanted to use this to add
members with delivery disabled, it might be useful. It can also be
used to set delivery status for existing members...


>The differences:
<snip>
>137a143,146
>>             if enable == 1:
>>                 mlist.setDeliveryStatus(member, MemberAdaptor.ENABLED)
>>             else:
>>                 mlist.setDeliveryStatus(member, MemberAdaptor.BYADMIN)
>146a156,160
>>             if enable == 1:
>>                 mlist.setDeliveryStatus(member, MemberAdaptor.ENABLED)
>>             else:
>>                 mlist.setDeliveryStatus(member, MemberAdaptor.BYADMIN)


In all the setDeliveryStatus calls above, 'member' should be replaced by
'userdesc.address' to allow input with names.

<snip>
>184a200,206
>>         elif opt in ('-e', '--enable-mail'):
>>             if arg.lower()[0] == 'y':
>>                 enable_mail = 1
>>             elif arg.lower()[0] == 'n':
>>                 enable_mail = 0
>>             else:
>>                 usage(1, _('Bad argument to -3/--enable-mail: %(arg)s'))


'-3' above should be '-e'.

And, I wonder if Apple really updated the translations to include that
message?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 28 18:12:55 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 09:12:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about g-zipped mail archives
	-attachment folders/files?
In-Reply-To: <6c8c9b030602280821r6fa2e679sc4b96b4f5926d053@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602280912550656e3eaac87@msapiro>

Dave Yeats wrote:

>On 2/28/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>> Also, a .gz (gzipped) file does not contain a hierarchy of folders and
>> files unless it is a gzip of a .tar or other archive. Where are these
>> coming from in your case?
>
>I'm looking at http://mail.gnome.org/archives/evince-list/
>
>> This looks like some mail.gnome.org specific way of dealing with the
>> plain text archive.
>
>Must be.  I thought it was weird, too.  I'll double-check that the
>child folders don't contain anything new, and go from there.

Actually, I've looked at
http://mail.gnome.org/archives/evince-list/2006-January.txt.gz, and I
see the issue is with the way you are expanding the gzip file.

If I expand the file with gunzip, I get 2006-January.txt = 98890 bytes.

If I expand with Stuffit Deluxe with the "create surrounding folder"
and "further expansion" options off, I get the same thing, but if I
set those options on, I get a 2006-January.txt folder containing files

2006-January.txt.attachment00 = 1876 bytes
2006-January.txt.attachment01 = 277 bytes
2006-January.txt.attachment02 = 88537 bytes
signature.asc = 188 bytes
signature_1.asc = 188 bytes

What is happening is Stuffit is parsing the email into separate
messages.

The answer is don't use Stuffit, or if you do, turn off the "further
expansion" option.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 28 18:18:29 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 09:18:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006022808374106402e1efe09@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC174020060228091829067199b65adc@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Allan Hansen wrote:
>>
>>So Apple's version does, indeed, appear to be an Apple hack gone awry.
>>I suppose it could be fixed by extracting the address before sending
>>the member to setDeliveryStatus, but I'll refrain from that.
>
>
>Yes, but why? 

Upon rereading my post, I see the above "but why" doesn't say what I
meant. It appears that I'm saying "but why refrain from fixing the
hack?" This is definitely not what I meant to say.

I meant to say "but why fix it?", just the opposite of how it comes
out. I did indicate how you could fix it, but I also tried to say that
I didn't see a real need for the botched option in the first place.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Tue Feb 28 18:50:22 2006
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 12:50:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating htdig
In-Reply-To: <r02010500-1045-3B08151AA82C11DAA2DA00112475E44C@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <r02010500-1045-3B08151AA82C11DAA2DA00112475E44C@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <44048D5E.4060903@wingfoot.org>

michael dunston said the following on 2/28/2006 2:31 AM:
> dragon at crimson-dragon.com, 11:48 AM (-0800) Monday, February 27,
> 2006:
> 
>> I noticed in the documentation that the 3.2 version of htdig is not
>>  supported by the patches for using htdig with mailman. I've tried
>> rolling it back to version 3.1.6 but am having difficulty getting
>> it to install so it looks like for the moment I am stuck with 3.2
>> 
>> Is there any way to get this patch to work with the 3.2 version of
>> htdig? Is there any plan to support this in the future?
> 
> Not this is necessarily of much help, but I was in a similar
> situation recently and ended up giving up on htdig entirely and using
> swish-e instead.   It wasn't as easy to set up (as htdig integration)
> but it works and seems much faster to use.
> 

I don't recall having to do anything special in this situation. I'm
running 2.1.7 with htdig 3.2.0b6 ...

I did customize my htdig setup, so that my logo, color scheme and such
are used, and I put all that in the templates/en/htdig_conf.txt file.
But I don't recall doing anything particularly special there.

Best,
--Glenn

-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
          ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759


From sesiri.pathirane at seacrets.com  Tue Feb 28 18:35:07 2006
From: sesiri.pathirane at seacrets.com (Sesiri Pathirane)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 12:35:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Set-up Instructions
Message-ID: <SEACONTROLfCyiQ5Vza00000a93@seacontrol.SEACRETS.local>

Hi:

 

Im using mailman for one of our mailing lists, but I have a hard time
configuring it. If someone replies to the a mail that?s sent to the mailing
list, it goes to everybody on the list, as if I sent a mail to the list. How
can I stop that? I tried everything, but no luck!

 

Thanks in Advance
Sesiri


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.1/270 - Release Date: 2/27/2006
 


From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Tue Feb 28 19:13:47 2006
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 13:13:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating htdig
In-Reply-To: <44048D5E.4060903@wingfoot.org>
References: <r02010500-1045-3B08151AA82C11DAA2DA00112475E44C@[10.0.1.2]>
	<44048D5E.4060903@wingfoot.org>
Message-ID: <440492DB.80104@wingfoot.org>

Glenn Sieb said the following on 2/28/2006 12:50 PM:
> I don't recall having to do anything special in this situation. I'm
> running 2.1.7 with htdig 3.2.0b6 ...
> 
> I did customize my htdig setup, so that my logo, color scheme and such
> are used, and I put all that in the templates/en/htdig_conf.txt file.
> But I don't recall doing anything particularly special there.

In case anyone is interested, here are my html files (from
$SHAREBASE/htdig/common/.) and my conf file (from
$USRBASE/mailman/templates/en/.)

Best,
--Glenn

-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
          ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Tue Feb 28 19:16:05 2006
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 13:16:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating htdig
In-Reply-To: <440492DB.80104@wingfoot.org>
References: <r02010500-1045-3B08151AA82C11DAA2DA00112475E44C@[10.0.1.2]>	<44048D5E.4060903@wingfoot.org>
	<440492DB.80104@wingfoot.org>
Message-ID: <44049365.1060509@wingfoot.org>

Glenn Sieb said the following on 2/28/2006 1:13 PM:
> Glenn Sieb said the following on 2/28/2006 12:50 PM:
>> I don't recall having to do anything special in this situation. I'm
>> running 2.1.7 with htdig 3.2.0b6 ...
>>
>> I did customize my htdig setup, so that my logo, color scheme and such
>> are used, and I put all that in the templates/en/htdig_conf.txt file.
>> But I don't recall doing anything particularly special there.
> 
> In case anyone is interested, here are my html files (from
> $SHAREBASE/htdig/common/.) and my conf file (from
> $USRBASE/mailman/templates/en/.)

How about.. if anyone's interested I can email it backchannel LOL :)

Best,
--G.

-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
          ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 28 19:18:21 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 10:18:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Set-up Instructions
In-Reply-To: <SEACONTROLfCyiQ5Vza00000a93@seacontrol.SEACRETS.local>
References: <SEACONTROLfCyiQ5Vza00000a93@seacontrol.SEACRETS.local>
Message-ID: <440493ED.9000000@value.net>

Sesiri Pathirane wrote:
 >
 > If someone replies to the a mail that?s sent to the mailing list, it
 > goes to everybody on the list, as if I sent a mail to the list. How
 > can I stop that? I tried everything, but no luck!

On the list's general options page you want

first_strip_reply_to = No
reply_goes_to_list = Poster

Beyond that, it is up to the person doing the replying and his/her MUA.

Normally, a 'reply-all' (as I'm doing here) will go to the original 
poster and the list because the list is a recipient of the original 
post, and a 'reply' will go to the poster only.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tmz at pobox.com  Tue Feb 28 19:51:18 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 13:51:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Set-up Instructions
In-Reply-To: <SEACONTROLfCyiQ5Vza00000a93@seacontrol.SEACRETS.local>
References: <SEACONTROLfCyiQ5Vza00000a93@seacontrol.SEACRETS.local>
Message-ID: <20060228185118.GN2978@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Sesiri Pathirane wrote:
> Im using mailman for one of our mailing lists, but I have a hard
> time configuring it. If someone replies to the a mail that?s sent to
> the mailing list, it goes to everybody on the list, as if I sent a
> mail to the list. How can I stop that? I tried everything, but no
> luck!

Mark covered how you can change the reply to in his post.

If the list is supposed to not allow anyone but you to post to it,
then you'll want to have a look at the FAQ.  Search for announce or
one-way.

In particular, see these entries:

3.11. How do I create a newsletter/announcement/one-way list?
3.34. How do I spoof-proof my one-way (announcements or newsletter)
list?

- -- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
Damn you all!
    -- Stewie Griffin

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkQEm6YmGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1rKxQCcChUBymsd1tL0IhVCyub7ufdSaJEAnR/hLylJ
t5QTVdTfQ46O1mND3vOC
=fEdZ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 28 19:59:40 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 10:59:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List
In-Reply-To: <SEACONTROLGLVceyNxP00000a95@seacontrol.SEACRETS.local>
Message-ID: <PC1740200602281059400046a9452e76@msapiro>

Sesiri Pathirane wrote:
>
>Thanks for the Reply on the list. I had selected first_reply_to = no and
>reply_goes_to_list = poster. But when people reply to the list, it went to
>everybody on the list. I need to set it up where, if anyone replies to the
>list, it goes to the list admin. How do I do that?


If you want all replies to go to the list owner and not to the original
poster, set

first_strip_reply_to = Yes
reply_goes_to_list = Explicit address
reply_to_address = list-owner at example.com

It seems like you may be trying to set up an announcement type list, in
which case, you also probably want to moderate the members so they
can't post to the list. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp>
for detailed information on setting up this kind of list.
	
-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hansen at rc.org  Tue Feb 28 20:17:21 2006
From: hansen at rc.org (Allan Hansen)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 11:17:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members
Message-ID: <p06230919c02a523345f7@[134.244.96.80]>

Thank you for clarifying, Mark.

I do not yet have the knowledge to fix it, thus my comment. I do
appreciate the fix, though, because a number of my subscribers do
want to be subscribed inactive from a second address that they use
for posts (and they don't want duplicates). So I'll use your version.

Allan

At 9:18 -0800 2/28/06, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>>Allan Hansen wrote:
>>>
>>>So Apple's version does, indeed, appear to be an Apple hack gone awry.
>>>I suppose it could be fixed by extracting the address before sending
>>>the member to setDeliveryStatus, but I'll refrain from that.
>>
>>
>>Yes, but why? 
>
>Upon rereading my post, I see the above "but why" doesn't say what I
>meant. It appears that I'm saying "but why refrain from fixing the
>hack?" This is definitely not what I meant to say.
>
>I meant to say "but why fix it?", just the opposite of how it comes
>out. I did indicate how you could fix it, but I also tried to say that
>I didn't see a real need for the botched option in the first place.
>
>-- 
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

-- 
 _________________________________________________________________
| Allan Hansen, Ph.D.                                             |
|    P.O. Box 2423, Cypress, CA 90630, U.S.A.                     |
|                                                                 |
| Work:                              Home:                        |
| Phone: +1-714/952-6015             +1-714/875-8870              |
| Fax:   +1-714/952-6746                                          |
| Email: allan.hansen at ugs.com        hansen at rc.org                |
| WWW:   http://www.ugs.com          http://www.rc.org/           |
|                                                                 |
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From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Tue Feb 28 20:24:05 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 11:24:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members
In-Reply-To: <p06230919c02a523345f7@[134.244.96.80]>
References: <p06230919c02a523345f7@[134.244.96.80]>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060228112137.056bf6a8@207.99.63.98>

Allan Hansen wrote:
>Thank you for clarifying, Mark.
>
>I do not yet have the knowledge to fix it, thus my comment. I do
>appreciate the fix, though, because a number of my subscribers do
>want to be subscribed inactive from a second address that they use
>for posts (and they don't want duplicates). So I'll use your version.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

So why not add them to the list of approved posters?

It's under accept_these_nonmembers on the Privacy options, Send filters page.

That's what I do when somebody wants to be able to post from a 
non-subscribed address. It's clean and easy.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From carbonnb at gmail.com  Tue Feb 28 20:29:17 2006
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:29:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060228112137.056bf6a8@207.99.63.98>
References: <p06230919c02a523345f7@134.244.96.80>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20060228112137.056bf6a8@207.99.63.98>
Message-ID: <e04a6c920602281129n4f7e6e2bpd925fc5c558e2d09@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/28/06, Dragon <dragon at crimson-dragon.com> wrote:
> Allan Hansen wrote:
> >Thank you for clarifying, Mark.
> >
> >I do not yet have the knowledge to fix it, thus my comment. I do
> >appreciate the fix, though, because a number of my subscribers do
> >want to be subscribed inactive from a second address that they use
> >for posts (and they don't want duplicates). So I'll use your version.
> ---------------- End original message. ---------------------
>
> So why not add them to the list of approved posters?
>
> It's under accept_these_nonmembers on the Privacy options, Send filters page.
>
> That's what I do when somebody wants to be able to post from a
> non-subscribed address. It's clean and easy.

By doing it that way, it's extra work for the list admin.

When folks on my lists want to post for different accounts I give them
instructions on how to sub that address and then postpone that
subscription. it puts the onus on the onus on the user to make sure
they post from "legitimate" accounts.

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Tue Feb 28 21:42:33 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 12:42:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members
In-Reply-To: <e04a6c920602281129n4f7e6e2bpd925fc5c558e2d09@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <p06230919c02a523345f7@134.244.96.80>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20060228112137.056bf6a8@207.99.63.98>
	<e04a6c920602281129n4f7e6e2bpd925fc5c558e2d09@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20060228123708.05bff390@207.99.63.98>

Bryan Carbonnell sent the message below at 11:29 2/28/2006:
>On 2/28/06, Dragon <dragon at crimson-dragon.com> wrote:
> > Allan Hansen wrote:
> > >Thank you for clarifying, Mark.
> > >
> > >I do not yet have the knowledge to fix it, thus my comment. I do
> > >appreciate the fix, though, because a number of my subscribers do
> > >want to be subscribed inactive from a second address that they use
> > >for posts (and they don't want duplicates). So I'll use your version.
> > ---------------- End original message. ---------------------
> >
> > So why not add them to the list of approved posters?
> >
> > It's under accept_these_nonmembers on the Privacy options, Send filters 
> page.
> >
> > That's what I do when somebody wants to be able to post from a
> > non-subscribed address. It's clean and easy.
>
>By doing it that way, it's extra work for the list admin.
>
>When folks on my lists want to post for different accounts I give them
>instructions on how to sub that address and then postpone that
>subscription. it puts the onus on the onus on the user to make sure
>they post from "legitimate" accounts.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

OK, I still don't understand the real issue here nor exactly how this would 
be setup. It sounds like more time will be expended setting this up than it 
would take to actually add a bunch of people to the non-member accept list.

It takes me all of a minute to add somebody to that list and it is rare 
that I even get a request to do it. I can only see that becoming a real 
time issue on huge lists with lots of people who want to post from an 
alternate address. In my case, this is extremely unlikely to happen so I go 
with the simpler approach.



Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From carbonnb at gmail.com  Tue Feb 28 22:00:13 2006
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 16:00:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20060228123708.05bff390@207.99.63.98>
References: <p06230919c02a523345f7@134.244.96.80>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20060228112137.056bf6a8@207.99.63.98>
	<e04a6c920602281129n4f7e6e2bpd925fc5c558e2d09@mail.gmail.com>
	<6.2.1.2.2.20060228123708.05bff390@207.99.63.98>
Message-ID: <e04a6c920602281300j2ef0920v905f96ce3045c2e1@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/28/06, Dragon <dragon at crimson-dragon.com> wrote:

> OK, I still don't understand the real issue here nor exactly how this would
> be setup. It sounds like more time will be expended setting this up than it
> would take to actually add a bunch of people to the non-member accept list.

It depends on who's time you consider more valuable. You the admin
trying to take care of the lists, possibly the mailman install or even
the actual server.

> It takes me all of a minute to add somebody to that list and it is rare
> that I even get a request to do it. I can only see that becoming a real
> time issue on huge lists with lots of people who want to post from an
> alternate address. In my case, this is extremely unlikely to happen so I go
> with the simpler approach.

For me the issue is time. If someone wants to post from an alternate
address, I have stock text that I copy & paste into an e-mail and hit
send. I can post the text of the e-mail later this evening if you'd
like. It details the steps the user has to take to subscribe
themselves from a second address and then postpone it.

If I added them manually, then I would have to add them, change their
address when it changes, and it does, and remove them when they no
longer want to post from that address. I also then have to let the
other admins know what is going on in case "I get hit by a truck".

Much easier to have the user do it themselves.

I also believe there would be a performance hit on the server (just an
assumption nothing I've ever tested) because of having to check the 
non-member accept list, especially if it gets large. I don't know if
the performace hit is even an issue, but it's something to consider.

I probably got about 3 or 4 requests a month when I first took over
the admin of the lists, now it's down to 1 every few months, since
most of the users now know how to do it themselves. I actually see
unsubs and resubs from different addresses for the same user on a
fairly regular basis, so I know that the requests would stay high for
this kind of thing if I hadn't educated the users on how to do it
themselves.

Granted the lists I administer are populated by extremely tech savy
users (MS Access developers list is the main one) so that probably
doesn't hurt.

Having said all that, your approach works well for you and mine works
well for me. 2 different ways to accomplish the same goal.

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"


From tony_bibbs at yahoo.com  Tue Feb 28 22:32:56 2006
From: tony_bibbs at yahoo.com (Tony Bibbs)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 13:32:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] admin email interface
Message-ID: <20060228213256.88662.qmail@web37715.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I see docs for the email interface for members of a
list (subscribe, unscubscribe, etc). 

Are there equivalents for the administration functions
(add list, remove list, list admins, list lists, etc)?

The goal is to integrate a 3rd party application to
use Mailman without having to have a person physically
create and administer the list through the web
interface.

--Tony



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Feb 28 23:12:56 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:12:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] admin email interface
In-Reply-To: <20060228213256.88662.qmail@web37715.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060228141256004626c1ae86@msapiro>

Tony Bibbs wrote:

>I see docs for the email interface for members of a
>list (subscribe, unscubscribe, etc). 
>
>Are there equivalents for the administration functions
>(add list, remove list, list admins, list lists, etc)?


No


>The goal is to integrate a 3rd party application to
>use Mailman without having to have a person physically
>create and administer the list through the web
>interface.


Some people have done things like this by invoking the command-line
scripts from other applications or via CGI.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Feb 28 23:46:18 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 23:46:18 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Goodmail spells doom for mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <43FE59DA.9050200@dcrocker.net>
References: <43F611AE.104@nerds.net>
	<Pine.GSO.4.64.0602180810490.14620@westnet.com>
	<43FE59DA.9050200@dcrocker.net>
Message-ID: <p06200700c02a828fae6c@[10.0.0.182]>

At 4:56 PM -0800 2006-02-23, Dave Crocker wrote:

>   From what I can tell, the Goodmail technology does not work 
>through a mailing
>  list.  From what I can tell, limited its application to transaction mail will
>  keep this from being a problem.

	I worked at AOL for over two years, as the first Internet Mail 
Operations person they ever hired, and left as the Sr. Internet Mail 
Systems Administrator for AOL.  I know how their marketing department 
works.

	On the one hand, you have an old creaky system that only ever 
kinda-semi-sorta-somewhat works on the best days, and costs a 
boatload of money, people, and time to maintain.  On the other hand, 
you have a system where they get a share of the paid spam that goes 
through the system, via Goodmail -- a method that they have said will 
completely by-pass all anti-spam checks, and guarantees that the paid 
spammer in question will have unhindered access to your mailbox.

	Which one do you honestly think that they are going to choose?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Feb 28 23:54:24 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 23:54:24 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Goodmail spells doom for mailing lists?
In-Reply-To: <43FF1374.9010806@nerds.net>
References: <43F611AE.104@nerds.net><Pine.GSO.4.64.0602180810490.14620@westnet
	.com>	<43FE59DA.9050200@dcrocker.net>
	<012f01c638fb$6f21a320$2c5a56d8@sallyz7dwc2ci1>
	<43FF1374.9010806@nerds.net>
Message-ID: <p06200701c02a83e4fe6f@[10.0.0.182]>

At 9:08 AM -0500 2006-02-24, Jonathan Dill wrote:

>  If you only have a few people on your mailing list, probably nothing,
>  but if you cross a certain threshhold--I'm guessing either number of
>  messages sent from you, or number of spam complaints--AOL just starts
>  rejecting your e-mail, and you have to sign up for their "Enhanced
>  Whitelist" service, which is apparently being phased out in favor of
>  Goodmail.

	They have since claimed that they won't phase out the existing 
whitelist mechanism, but I worked at AOL for two years in the 
Internet Mail Operations group, and I know how their marketing 
department works.  They may dilly-dally for a while, and keep the 
existing whitelist mechanism in place for a while, but the amount of 
money that they're going to get paid as their share of what Goodmail 
sends to their users as paid spam, that's just going to be too big of 
an attraction for them.

	So, bit-by-bit, I am convinced that they will disassemble the 
whitelist mechanism -- people will get reassigned, budgets will get 
cut, and it will wind up going the way of the Dodo bird.

>  Sometime last year, AOL just started rejecting our e-mail, and I had to
>  register them for the "Enhanced Whitelist" program so the e-mail would
>  go to AOL subscribers.  One thing that did do is that I started
>  receiving e-mail from AOL every time someone reported the mailing as
>  "spam" and then I would unsubscribe them from the list.  People sign up
>  for the list, confirm their subscription, and then turn around and
>  complain about getting e-mail from us, and then when I take them off the
>  list, they complain that they should not have been removed, I just don't
>  get it.

	I got first-hand experience as to how stupid most AOL users are 
during the time I was working there.  Believe me, you're interacting 
with the intelligent ones -- the really dumb ones can't figure out 
how to send or receive e-mail at all.

>  Since Enhanced Whitelist is supposedly being phased out and we are
>  already on that program, I am wondering if AOL will just start rejecting
>  our e-mail again unless we sign up for Goodmail.

	Maybe not immediately, but in the long-run, if you want to get 
e-mail to an AOL recipient for any reason, you're going to have to 
pay them money -- one way or another.

	This is a potential cash cow that has been ignored for too long, 
and once the advertising and marketing vampires get their teeth into 
this, it's "game over, man".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.