From cormikeal at quickstockpower.com  Fri Dec 22 18:12:03 2006
From: cormikeal at quickstockpower.com (cormikeal at quickstockpower.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 12:12:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] BlackJack Anyone??
Message-ID: <0u3a0fn.mfi58k@mx09.quickstockpower.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20061222/e01fb68c/attachment.htm 

From kencheney at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  1 00:10:21 2006
From: kencheney at yahoo.com (Ken Cheney)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 15:10:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private lists and trouble shooting unsubscribes
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00611301157x24623361l2c94c29ce737a7f3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <873528.81073.qm@web53213.mail.yahoo.com>

I send email to the list using my corprate Outlook client to mylist at listserv.domain.org  what setting do i have in error that logs root at listserv.mydomain.org instead myemail at mydomain.org.  I dont have a mail client on the list server at all.  Strickly command line shell only.
   
  The place I am looking is in the main page after login I click on the link on the right that says "Tend to pending moderator requests"

Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:
  On 11/30/06, Ken Cheney wrote:
> I do have access to the box that mailman is on. The vette log shows:
>
> Nov 29 08:05:02 2006 (11992) Mailman post from root at listserv.mydomain.org
> held,
> message-id=<200611291305.kATD51Gr025658 at listserv.mydomain.org>:
> Post by non-member to a members-only list
The address 'root at listserv.mydomain.org' is not a member of the list.
That is the address you sent the message from. However, this indicates
the message was held, not rejected or discarded. Are you sure you're
looking at the correct place when you say it doesn't show up as a
moderation task?

> but the email address I sent to this list from is a member of the list. Is
> this a problem maybe in the aliases file?
>
> alias_database = hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
> alias_maps = hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
I don't think you need both of these. I'm not completely sure,
however. This might have something to do with why listname-leave isn't
working.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


 
---------------------------------
Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

From tech14 at netaxis.ca  Fri Dec  1 01:48:26 2006
From: tech14 at netaxis.ca (Pierre Forget)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 19:48:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail not sent in chroot
Message-ID: <20061130194826.u8hladqcng8wwock@mailman.netaxis.ca>

Hi,

mailman-2.1.9
installed from source in chroot
slackware 2.4.32
sendmail 8.13.5 (not chrooted)

I also have a version installed out of chroot, and if I create or 
modify a list from command prompt, I get the confirmation email 
correctly (email telling you that the list was created with passwd, 
etc.).

 From the chrooted version, I can access the web pages, create lists, 
modify lists OK. But, when I do it from the web page, I don't get the 
confirmation email correctly. No errors found in any logs. Seems that 
the mail just disappears.

I can send from chroot with Perl, PHP. I already have a standard mail 
server and an IMAP server running on this machine (HORDE/IMP).

Installed with /usr/local/mailman from root and then copied to the 
chroot, keeping the ownership and permission.

I didn't install the aliases yet, but I presume that the confirmation 
email don't need the aliases. Am I right? When you create the list the 
first time, the list of aliases are sent in an email, so you 
theorically don't need them, until you start using the list.

Thanks for the help,

Pierre Forget


----------------------------------------------------------------
Netaxis inc, www.netaxis.ca
Ce message a ?t? envoy? en utilisant IMP, le Programme de Messagerie Internet.
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.



From demonicpagan at gmail.com  Fri Dec  1 02:46:58 2006
From: demonicpagan at gmail.com (Dustin)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 19:46:58 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installing Mailman with Qmail +VPopmail and using
	virtual domains
Message-ID: <01de01c714ea$99fd3700$1b01a8c0@iceman>

I have been searching everywhere for like some sort of tutorial on how to
set this up.  The manual is very vague on how to handle virtual domains.

 

I have mailman set up in /home/mailman

 

In /home/mailman I have 3 directories (1 for each of my virtual hosts) 

 

When I went to install mailman I ran 3 separate installs

 

./configure -prefix=/home/maiman/s2i --with-mail-gid=vchkpwd
--with-cgi-gid=www-data --with-python=/usr/bin/python2.3

./configure -prefix=/home/maiman/ce.com --with-mail-gid=vchkpwd
--with-cgi-gid=www-data --with-python=/usr/bin/python2.3

./configure -prefix=/home/maiman/ce.net --with-mail-gid=vchkpwd
--with-cgi-gid=www-data --with-python=/usr/bin/python2.3

 

I am really unsure how to set up the .qmail-default and where to place it.

 

The qmail-to-mailman.py I have in each of the 3 directories.  Another thing
I am unsure of is how to set up the aliases.

 

At the moment my /var/qmail/control/virtualdomains is set to 

lists.stelth2000inc.com:lists.stelth2000inc.com

lists.celestial-essences.net:lists.celestial-essences.net

lists.celestial-essences.com:lists.celestial-essences.com

 

should I be changing the 2nd part to mailman?

 

If anyone could assist me or point me somewhere that will better clarify
what I'm trying to do, that would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance for any assistance provided

 

-Dustin

 


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Dec  1 02:55:49 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 19:55:49 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subject line filtering
In-Reply-To: <456F6C9D.4040201@pacbell.net>
References: <456F1C28.1080802@pacbell.net>
	<6fbe3da00611301203y325b663bm1c337694ee13f3c5@mail.gmail.com>
	<456F6C9D.4040201@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00611301755h4d10c806u8300c00ba8819a8@mail.gmail.com>

SpamDetect should be the first handler in the pipeline, which means
that header_filter_rules should be one of the first things checked. I
do not know what is causing your issue.

What does the vette log have to say about these messages?

Please keep all replies on-list.

- Patrick Bogen

On 11/30/06, Duane Clark <fpga at pacbell.net> wrote:
> Patrick Bogen wrote:
> > On 11/30/06, Duane Clark <fpga at pacbell.net> wrote:
> >> ^subject:.*hi\sit
> >> ^subject:.*wrote:
> >> But they don't seem to work. I am not very familiar with regular
> >> expressions. Can someone point out something I am doing wrong?
> >
> > These look fine to me. What do you have the action set to for these rules?
>
> It is set to discard.
>
> > Is it possible the message is being pre-approved some other way?
> >
>
> They have been (and still are) getting caught in the moderation queue.
> Posts of list members do not go in the queue, so I am only checking for
> valid posts that are in the queue for one reason or another. I don't
> know what other things might override this.
>


-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From stanley at chen.com.hk  Fri Dec  1 05:05:29 2006
From: stanley at chen.com.hk (Stanley Chen)
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 12:05:29 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't login mailman list admin web
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00611301203y325b663bm1c337694ee13f3c5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <456F1C28.1080802@pacbell.net>
	<6fbe3da00611301203y325b663bm1c337694ee13f3c5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <456FAA09.5060704@chen.com.hk>

We have a list running 30,000+ list members.

Recently we have sent out several mails to this list, and it's still 
running.

However, we can't login to the admin webpage. After we input password, 
the page was loading as shown in the status bar, but after several 
minutes still can't show the admin page and finally it said "page can't 
be loaded".

How can we solve it?

From thomas at btspuhler.com  Fri Dec  1 05:59:27 2006
From: thomas at btspuhler.com (Thomas Spuhler)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 21:59:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem creating list, unknown language
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061129202739070393497146@msapiro>
References: <PC176020061129202739070393497146@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200611302159.27595.thomas@btspuhler.com>

On Wednesday 29 November 2006 09:27 pm, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Thomas Spuhler wrote:
> >When creating a new list, (my first list) I get:
> >[root at aargau thomas]# newlist
> >Create a new, unpopulated mailing list.
> >.
> >.
> >.
> >Note that listnames are forced to lowercase.
> >
> >Unknown language: en_US
> >[root at aargau thomas]#
> >
> >Same with other languages such as de or fr
>
> I don't know about de or fr, but regarding en_US, see
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-February/049542.html>
> (that was Mandravia 10.1)
Thanks. This solved the problem. I don't know how it got there.

-- 

Thomas

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Dec  1 07:59:47 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 00:59:47 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending emails via Mailman Issue
In-Reply-To: <B3F5C68B3053574B91F240C87B9CC3E228DF68@slof2563.rcl.domain>
References: <B3F5C68B3053574B91F240C87B9CC3E228DF68@slof2563.rcl.domain>
Message-ID: <p06240500c19583182894@[10.0.1.11]>

At 9:45 AM +1100 12/1/06, Saxvik, Ben wrote:

>  I verified that sendmail was running and it was. I then proceeded to
>  /etc/hosts file and found that the loopback address for the machine was
>  incorrect. Instead of the address being 127.0.0.1 it was ::1. Once I
>  change it back it was all sweet.

The 127.0.0.1 address is IPv4 localhost, while ::1 is IPv6 localhost. 
So, technically both forms are correct, and which one is preferred 
will depend on which version of the IP stack is loaded on your 
machine, and which IP addresses are assigned to your machine.

You need to check with your network administrator before you make a 
change like this.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From dewey at ku.edu  Fri Dec  1 17:01:31 2006
From: dewey at ku.edu (Dewhirst, Rob)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 10:01:31 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FAQ 5.3 localdomain.localhost problem
Message-ID: <C9F4FE51E4DB3B4EBCA6B115331EB72306E21B35@MAILBOXTWO.home.ku.edu>

<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=all#5.3>

I have the correct DEFAULT_HOST_NAME, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and
DEFAULT_URL_HOST in mm_cfg.py and I am still getting emails with urls
referring to localdomain.localhost in them.  I have restarted mailman
after the change.

I noticed in Defaults.py there is a note that DEFAULT_HOST_NAME has been
replaced with DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST.

In any case, they are both defined and both correct. DEFAULT_HOST_NAME
was NOT defined in my mm_cfg.py file when the problematic list was
created. I added it to solve this problem.  No other lists or new ones I
create have this problem.  This was the first list I created that has
this problem.

Ideas?

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Dec  1 17:51:42 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 10:51:42 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FAQ 5.3 localdomain.localhost problem
In-Reply-To: <C9F4FE51E4DB3B4EBCA6B115331EB72306E21B35@MAILBOXTWO.home.ku.edu>
References: <C9F4FE51E4DB3B4EBCA6B115331EB72306E21B35@MAILBOXTWO.home.ku.edu>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00612010851y109e3754k1b7476766039670e@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/1/06, Dewhirst, Rob <dewey at ku.edu> wrote:
> I have the correct DEFAULT_HOST_NAME, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST in mm_cfg.py and I am still getting emails with urls
> referring to localdomain.localhost in them.  I have restarted mailman
> after the change.
>
> Ideas?

Run fix_url

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From ben at graphicbliss.com  Fri Dec  1 18:02:12 2006
From: ben at graphicbliss.com (Ben Swihart)
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 12:02:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman still sending command confirmations via
	e-maili
Message-ID: <45706014.70401@graphicbliss.com>

My problem is that Mailman is sending "The results of your email 
commands" messages when a subscription is successful and *I do not want 
it to do that* as I have set the send_welcome_msg to Yes and this is 
unfriendly and redundant to the welcome message that goes out to new 
members.

Can you help?

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> tried to help by sending me a patch.

In my Defaults.py file I added

# Should Mailman send a response to a successful e-mail 'confirm' command?
RESPOND_TO_SUCCESSFUL_CONFIRM = No

And, in cmd_confirm.py I modified a couple lines:

-            (results[0] == Pending.UNSUBSCRIPTION and 
mlist.send_goodbye_msg)):

+            (results[0] == Pending.UNSUBSCRIPTION and 
mlist.send_goodbye_msg)
+            or
+            (not mm_cfg.RESPOND_TO_SUCCESSFUL_CONFIRM)):

--------

Also, Mark said: "The command results should not be sent if a welcome 
will be sent (send_welcome_msg on General Options is Yes) even without 
the patch."

Well, I have set the send_welcome_msg to Yes.  These command result 
e-mails are still going out.

Also, is mailmainctl -s restart the proper way to restart and 
incorporate changes to the code?

Thank you,

Ben

From esper at sherohman.org  Fri Dec  1 18:20:06 2006
From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 11:20:06 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing invalid list members
In-Reply-To: <20061128183716.GF19968@genma.sherohman.org>
References: <20061128183716.GF19968@genma.sherohman.org>
Message-ID: <20061201172006.GA32417@genma.sherohman.org>

Three days and no responses...  So there's no way to remove the address
described below?  The code that strips the second @ and everything after
it can't be bypassed?  You can't safely edit the database to delete it
directly without going through remove_members and the sanitizing code?
There's got to be *some* way to do it.

On Tue, Nov 28, 2006 at 12:37:16PM -0600, Dave Sherohman wrote:
> Somehow, a user has gotten himself subscribed to one of my lists with
> an address of the form foo at bar@hotmail.com.  How do I get rid of this
> subscription?
> 
> The various web interface options just give an error that this address
> is not subscribed (even while showing it on the list of subscribers -
> might want to let the left hand know what the right hand is doing) and
> remove_members from the command line gives a traceback culminating in
> "Mailman.Errors.NotAMemberError: foo at bar", so I'd guess that some address
> sanity-checking is what's killing the attempt.
> 
> In case it matters, I'm running Mailman from Debian's 2.1.5-8sarge5
> package and this user is probably a carryover from an earlier version,
> as remove_member's traceback starts in OldStyleMemberships.py.  And
> here's the traceback, too, just to be complete:
> 
> --- cut here ---
> # remove_members my-list foo at bar@hotmail.com
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/sbin/remove_members", line 186, in ?
>     main()
>   File "/usr/sbin/remove_members", line 176, in main
>     admin_notif, userack)
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 990, in ApprovedDeleteMember
>     self.removeMember(emailaddr)
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 220, in removeMember
>     self.__assertIsMember(member)
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 113, in __assertIsMember
>     raise Errors.NotAMemberError, member
> Mailman.Errors.NotAMemberError: foo at bar
> --- cut here ---

-- 
I would rather be exposed to the inconvenience attending too much Liberty
than those attending too small degree of it.
  - Thomas Jefferson

From barry at python.org  Fri Dec  1 18:35:15 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 12:35:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing invalid list members
In-Reply-To: <20061201172006.GA32417@genma.sherohman.org>
References: <20061128183716.GF19968@genma.sherohman.org>
	<20061201172006.GA32417@genma.sherohman.org>
Message-ID: <5A43E72E-BCF8-4A28-B0EB-2B1ED572BC40@python.org>


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  1 18:47:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 09:47:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FAQ 5.3 localdomain.localhost problem
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00612010851y109e3754k1b7476766039670e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061201094754057818dfc8d8@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>On 12/1/06, Dewhirst, Rob <dewey at ku.edu> wrote:
>> I have the correct DEFAULT_HOST_NAME, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and
>> DEFAULT_URL_HOST in mm_cfg.py and I am still getting emails with urls
>> referring to localdomain.localhost in them.  I have restarted mailman
>> after the change.
>>
>> Ideas?
>
>Run fix_url

I've updated FAQ 5.3 to clarify that DEFAULT_HOST_NAME should not be
used and to reference FAQ 4.69 re: fix_url.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at python.org  Fri Dec  1 18:51:12 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 12:51:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing invalid list members
In-Reply-To: <5A43E72E-BCF8-4A28-B0EB-2B1ED572BC40@python.org>
References: <20061128183716.GF19968@genma.sherohman.org>
	<20061201172006.GA32417@genma.sherohman.org>
	<5A43E72E-BCF8-4A28-B0EB-2B1ED572BC40@python.org>
Message-ID: <B169873F-2D5B-4307-8CDB-01FB68302695@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

[Barry swears he typed a response!]

What I tried to say was, use "bin/withlist -l mylist" and call  
m.removeMember() explicitly.  Then m.Save() to save the changes.

- -Barry

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin)

iQCVAwUBRXBrkXEjvBPtnXfVAQI1BAP8DGjDQxrBXRUNI80YAiCN9RQ3SsjzGOkr
T0FkyIfPF4HB6D0JxKRtLk3EaiTCNRB8jGb/oKGeuAsS+npSY39Kx24CMrseNugk
vpaSLeQE0/OgK2Ib1LQ51KkgSf3FRBAu5dE+ZJkUupH8gePIz9It5T6otKm+xrRG
GnDhwllfoV0=
=SEuY
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  1 19:31:44 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 10:31:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Old lists are working. New lists
	discardallmessages. How to debug?
In-Reply-To: <456BC1B6.70109@univexsystems.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612011031440265f77be235@msapiro>

Brian Parish wrote:
>
>4. discard_these_nonmembers is blank and generic_nonmember_action
> is hold
>
>5. forward_auto_discards is set to Yes, so I see the discards, but with no explanation as to why
>
>Given point 4, I don't understand how mailman can do anything but hold the message for approval, whether I am correctly subscribed or not.


In Mailman as distributed by the Mailman project, 4) and 5) above are
not possible. The only auto discards which are forwarded to the list
owner as a result of forward_auto_discards being set to Yes are those
discards which result from a match with discard_these_nonmembers or
generic_nonmember_action of Discard.

Other Discards can result from member_moderation_action,
header_filter_rules. KNOWN_SPAMMERS (in mm_cfg.py), or 'scrubbing' of
an HTML message if ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER = 0, but none of these
forward to the list owner.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  1 19:42:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 10:42:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Old lists are working. New lists
	discardallmessages. How to debug?
In-Reply-To: <456D7C6E.7040101@univexsystems.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612011042500625f77be3a3@msapiro>

Brian Parish wrote:
>>
>I did a bit more digging and found that the lists which don't work have
>no entries in /usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
>
>Obviously a problem!  Tried creating another list and found that entries
>were created in /usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman and indeed, that
>one works (although with other issues, which I'll post on separately). 
>Having gone through the same process for both, I am at a loss to
>understand this, but does this info add anything to the understanding of
>anyone else?


You can try running bin/genaliases which should rebuild the aliases and
virtual-mailman files.

The fact that the list entries are missing from virtual-mailman may be
another manifestation of the same underlying problem, but I don't
think it is the cause per se as the posts are getting through the MTA
(Postfix?) and getting discarded by Mailman. If the missing
virtual-mailman entries were the problem, the posts would be rejected
by Postfix or misdelivered.

You could check your Postfix log to verify that the post is ultimately
piped to "|path/to/mail/mailman post listname".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  1 19:54:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 10:54:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman, Fedora Core, 500 Internal Server Error
In-Reply-To: <20061129142802.M83354@comp-wiz.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612011054540953204c086f@msapiro>

Vernon Webbwrote:
>
>Next I look in my /var/log/httpd/suexec.log and I get:
>
>[2006-11-24 10:07:27]: uid: (500/morganfundingcorp) gid: (500/500) cmd: confirm 
>[2006-11-24 10:07:27]: file is either setuid or setgid: (/usr/lib/mailman/cgi- 
>bin/confirm)
>
>So I change from 2755 with User as root, Group as mailman to 0755 and now I get:
>
>[2006-11-25 14:45:43]: uid: (500/morganfundingcorp) gid: (500/500) cmd: admin 
>[2006-11-25 14:45:43]: target uid/gid (500/500) mismatch with directory (0/41) or 
>program (0/41) 
>[2006-11-25 14:45:49]: uid: (500/morganfundingcorp) gid: (500/500) cmd: listinfo 
>[2006-11-25 14:45:49]: target uid/gid (500/500) mismatch with directory (0/41) or 
>program (0/41)


You may find something helpful in
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  1 20:03:26 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 11:03:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing invalid list members
In-Reply-To: <B169873F-2D5B-4307-8CDB-01FB68302695@python.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612011103260562204c06cc@msapiro>

Barry Warsaw wrote:
>
>What I tried to say was, use "bin/withlist -l mylist" and call  
>m.removeMember() explicitly.  Then m.Save() to save the changes.

And, please note that this is in the FAQ at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.013.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From sfeng at stanford.edu  Fri Dec  1 20:27:26 2006
From: sfeng at stanford.edu (Xueshan Feng)
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 11:27:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions regarding mailman tunning FAQ 6.6
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200509021444220531f5d0fb69@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200509021444220531f5d0fb69@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1165001246.30724.91.camel@hoss.stanford.edu>


I am looking into ways to improve performance for our mailman server. It
currently serves 15,000 mailing list, and the largest list has more than
10,000 members. We are running mailman 2.1.8 with Postfix. We have load
spike at 20, and during busy hours, load average is around 10.  Messages
delays do occur but not too bad yet. I want to be more proactive to
prevent things from getting worse. 

Mailman FAQ 6.6 mentioned the following configuration tuning for
qrunner:

|Set your qrunner proc to live longer, and extend the lock life: 

|QRUNNER_LOCK_LIFETIME = hours(10)
|QRUNNER_PROCESS_LIFETIME = minutes(15)
|QRUNNER_MAX_MESSAGES = 300
|Set these to 20 hours, 2 hours and 50000

I cannot find these variables used anywhere in source code, other than
mentioned in NEWS file in the mailman release.

Thanks in advance for your help,

Xueshan
--




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  1 20:29:26 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 11:29:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught bounce notification loop
In-Reply-To: <456D7DCF.70603@univexsystems.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612011129260437292f302f@msapiro>

Brian Parish wrote:

>With *bounce_processing set to Yes on one list I get:
>*
>
>The attached message was received as a bounce...
>
>messages, with the same message attached many times.  i.e. The Uncaught bounce notification IS the attached message.  These continue streaming out until I turn off *bounce_processing


This loop should not occur. Unless the owner address(es) for the site
(mailman) list bounce. Uncaught bounce notifications are send from
<sitelist>-owner with envelope from <sitelist>-owner. Thus, if the
list owner address bounces, and the bounce is uncaught, the new notice
will be sent to the owner of the site list, which should be
deliverable.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  1 20:35:24 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 11:35:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listname-leave@domain.com isnt working
In-Reply-To: <39895.96598.qm@web53203.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612011135240125292f2ef5@msapiro>

Ken Cheney wrote:

>When I send email to listname-leave at domain.com the names don't unsubscribe from the lists.


Does the mail reach Mailman? Is anything returned to the sender? What
does the MTA log say it did with the mail?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dewey at ku.edu  Fri Dec  1 20:55:48 2006
From: dewey at ku.edu (Dewhirst, Rob)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 13:55:48 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FAQ 5.3 localdomain.localhost problem
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061201094754057818dfc8d8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C9F4FE51E4DB3B4EBCA6B115331EB72306E21B88@MAILBOXTWO.home.ku.edu>


> I've updated FAQ 5.3 to clarify that DEFAULT_HOST_NAME should 
> not be used and to reference FAQ 4.69 re: fix_url.

withlist -l -r fix_url <listname>

worked great.  Thanks.

From kencheney at yahoo.com  Fri Dec  1 20:55:20 2006
From: kencheney at yahoo.com (Ken Cheney)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 11:55:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listname-leave@domain.com isnt working
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612011135240125292f2ef5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <635012.10007.qm@web53203.mail.yahoo.com>

Given that I am very new to Mailman/Postfix/Linux... where would I find the MTA logs?  how would I tell if the message made it to mailman.  Come to think of it I have seen in logs where it say kencheney at Yahoo.com has been removed from the list.  Yet my email address is still on the list.
   
  Thanks.
  Ken

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
  Ken Cheney wrote:

>When I send email to listname-leave at domain.com the names don't unsubscribe from the lists.


Does the mail reach Mailman? Is anything returned to the sender? What
does the MTA log say it did with the mail?

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan



 
---------------------------------
Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

From esper at sherohman.org  Fri Dec  1 20:55:50 2006
From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 13:55:50 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing invalid list members
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612011103260562204c06cc@msapiro>
References: <B169873F-2D5B-4307-8CDB-01FB68302695@python.org>
	<PC1760200612011103260562204c06cc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061201195550.GB32417@genma.sherohman.org>

On Fri, Dec 01, 2006 at 11:03:26AM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Barry Warsaw wrote:
> >What I tried to say was, use "bin/withlist -l mylist" and call  
> >m.removeMember() explicitly.  Then m.Save() to save the changes.

Yep, that took care of it.  Thanks!

> And, please note that this is in the FAQ at
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.013.htp>.

Mea culpa.  It never even occurred to me that this might be common
enough to appear in the FAQ.

-- 
I would rather be exposed to the inconvenience attending too much Liberty
than those attending too small degree of it.
  - Thomas Jefferson

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  1 20:49:36 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 11:49:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private lists and trouble shooting unsubscribes
In-Reply-To: <873528.81073.qm@web53213.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612011149360156292f2f20@msapiro>

Ken Cheney wrote:

>I send email to the list using my corprate Outlook client to mylist at listserv.domain.org  what setting do i have in error that logs root at listserv.mydomain.org instead myemail at mydomain.org.  I dont have a mail client on the list server at all.  Strickly command line shell only.


Some MTA between your corprate Outlook client and Mailman is rewriting
the headers in your message. This also explains why you can't
unsubscribe via mail to listname-leave.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  1 21:03:15 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 12:03:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Most recent posts to top of page
In-Reply-To: <1164856772.11599.3.camel@server1.eazylivin.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602006120112031501259350316c@msapiro>

Barry R Cisna wrote:
>
>I m sure this is an easy fix, but i can not find a howto on doing this:
>How do I get MM to show most recent posts at top of the page,rather than
>the default, most recent are at the bottom..


Which page? archives? admindb? something else?

In any case, it's probably a code hack.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  1 21:11:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 12:11:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listname-leave@domain.com isnt working
In-Reply-To: <635012.10007.qm@web53203.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061201121110035993503251@msapiro>

Ken Cheney wrote:
>
>Given that I am very new to Mailman/Postfix/Linux... where would I find the MTA logs?


Maybe /var/log/maillog; maybe somewhere else.


>how would I tell if the message made it to mailman.


There will be a maillog entry indicating the message was delivered via
a pipe to the wrapper as in "|path/to/mail/mailman leave listname" in
the case of mail to listname-leave.


>Come to think of it I have seen in logs where it say kencheney at Yahoo.com has been removed from the list.  Yet my email address is still on the list.


Did you subsequently resubscribe? Were you removed from one list and
still on another? Are you confusing the list owner with list members?

Mailman's subscribe log should have all the subscribe and unsubscribe
activity.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  1 21:19:17 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 12:19:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Questions regarding mailman tunning FAQ 6.6
In-Reply-To: <1165001246.30724.91.camel@hoss.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612011219170906491c2b9b@msapiro>

Xueshan Feng wrote:
>
>Mailman FAQ 6.6 mentioned the following configuration tuning for
>qrunner:
>
>|Set your qrunner proc to live longer, and extend the lock life: 
>
>|QRUNNER_LOCK_LIFETIME = hours(10)
>|QRUNNER_PROCESS_LIFETIME = minutes(15)
>|QRUNNER_MAX_MESSAGES = 300
>|Set these to 20 hours, 2 hours and 50000


These are Mailman 2.0.x settings. They aren't relevant to Mailman 2.1.x.

Unfortunately, there's a lot of old stuff in the FAQ.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  1 21:37:59 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 12:37:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to setup umbrella lists
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00611300716o463e4df7g9d94491bd355f307@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612011237590218292f2f75@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
>The patch, I believe, is here:
><http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103>


And I just added a comment to the tracker item that the patch applies
without change to Mailman 2.1.9.

>Additionally, each sublist either needs 'require_explicit_destination'
>set to 'No,' or the address of the umbrella list added to
>'acceptable_aliases'.
>
>There may be something I'm missing, but I think that's everything.


And sublist-a may require @sublist-b in it's accept_these_nonmembers
and so forth, although this can often be avoided by adding the
umbrella-bounces address as a member with delivery disabled on each
sublist.

Adding the umbrella-bounces address to the sublist's
accept_these_nonmembers is not the same, and generally won't work
unless USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER is Yes in mm_cfg.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  1 21:51:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 12:51:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation action
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00611300703j726b2fcfod8ca34a4263593bc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612011251160718292f313e@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>Unfortunately, it looks like, since Moderate.py comes before anything
>else, there's no really 'correct' way to do this.


It doesn't come before SpamDetect which processes header_filter_rules,
so your suggestion below won't work.


>One option that ought to work, however, would be the following:
>Moderate all users that you want rejected, and set
>member_moderation_action to reject. Unmoderate the users you want
>held. Add a header filter rule that matches on everything (something
>like a single caret ('^') should suffice), and is set to Hold. I
>haven't tested this, and I don't know if it will work or not.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Dec  1 22:27:35 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 15:27:35 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation action
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612011251160718292f313e@msapiro>
References: <6fbe3da00611300703j726b2fcfod8ca34a4263593bc@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200612011251160718292f313e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00612011327x30fe4439q85fda29826a7cf34@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/1/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
> >Unfortunately, it looks like, since Moderate.py comes before anything
> >else, there's no really 'correct' way to do this.
>
>
> It doesn't come before SpamDetect which processes header_filter_rules,
> so your suggestion below won't work.

Indeed, this is correct. I think I failed at reading, since
Moderate.py isn't anything like the first in the pipeline. :/

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  1 22:40:58 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 13:40:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman still sending command confirmations
	viae-maili
In-Reply-To: <45706014.70401@graphicbliss.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006120113405807343e1d3178@msapiro>

Ben Swihart wrote:
>
>Well, I have set the send_welcome_msg to Yes.  These command result 
>e-mails are still going out.
>
>Also, is mailmainctl -s restart the proper way to restart and 
>incorporate changes to the code?


The -s option is not really applicable to a 'restart', but yes, that
should do it. In general, it is not a good idea to use '-s' unless you
have run the command (really only mailmanctl start) without it and it
has complained about locks and you have verified that the locks really
are stale. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.068.htp>.

That said, these confirmations shouldn't be sent in your case with or
without the patch.

Look at the file Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py. You will see the
definition of the Results class and within that, the definition of the
send_response() method which should begin as follows:

    def send_response(self):
        # Helper
        def indent(lines):
            return ['    ' + line for line in lines]
        # Quick exit for some commands which don't need a response
        if not self.respond:
            return

Do you see that? Also, in cmd_confirm.py right after the lines you
patched, do you see

            # We don't also need to send a confirmation succeeded
message
            res.respond = 0
        else:

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  1 22:44:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 13:44:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation action
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00612011327x30fe4439q85fda29826a7cf34@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006120113445409533e1d324f@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>On 12/1/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>>
>> It doesn't come before SpamDetect which processes header_filter_rules,
>> so your suggestion below won't work.
>
>Indeed, this is correct. I think I failed at reading, since
>Moderate.py isn't anything like the first in the pipeline. :/


I also wrote in another reply in this thread which seems stuck in a
mail queue somewhere that the Approved: password header bypasses all
tests except content filtering. This is not correct. It doesn't bypass
header_filter_rules (unless you reorder the pipeline).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec  2 00:15:06 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 15:15:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't login mailman list admin web
In-Reply-To: <456FAA09.5060704@chen.com.hk>
Message-ID: <PC176020061201151506026566b3af6f@msapiro>

Stanley Chen wrote:
>
>Recently we have sent out several mails to this list, and it's still 
>running.


What is still running? Is Mailman still sending to the MTA?


>However, we can't login to the admin webpage. After we input password, 
>the page was loading as shown in the status bar, but after several 
>minutes still can't show the admin page and finally it said "page can't 
>be loaded".


Seems like the list may be locked. If so, and the lock is stale, you
can manually remove the lock from Mailman's locks/ directory, but
first be sure it isn't locked by some current process.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brcisna at eazylivin.net  Sat Dec  2 01:08:32 2006
From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (brcisna at eazylivin.net)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 18:08:32 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list members do not get mail :details
Message-ID: <37029.192.168.254.3.1165018112.squirrel@server1>

Hello List,

I have setup a couple other MM installs in the past.  This is the first
time i have installed MM on a server different from the mail server that
users use.
I never see any smtp-failures in the MM logs?
Ive went through the faq 3.1.4 "Users not receiving mail". No joy:(. 
Below is a copy paste of the mail log on the actual MM server.
Is the "mailer=local" corrrect?
I have copyed pasted aliases into /etc/aliases,,,run "newaliases...
I can telnet send from MM server to Mail server no probs. it appears by
the post bewlow that the mail has sent to the ,,remote mail server( on the
same LAN). Im not familar at all even after reading for many hours on how
to use the "test" folder in the MM directory? I must still be  newbie:).
There uis surely a built in "tester" in MM to replicte a sent email to
MM,then the sendout to list members,but i cant find it?
Below is a cpoy from the mail server that MM resides on. I NEVER see any
listing on the actual mail server that this is sending to, though

MM 2.18  Fedora COre 5  sendmail

Thanks,

Barry Cisna




to=<cisna-barry at wc235.k12.il.us>, delay=00:00:02, xdelay=00:00:02,
mailer=local, pri=86494, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec  2 06:27:57 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 21:27:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list members do not get mail :details
In-Reply-To: <37029.192.168.254.3.1165018112.squirrel@server1>
Message-ID: <PC176020061201212757095337eca2f2@msapiro>

Barry Cisna wrote:

>Below is a copy paste of the mail log on the actual MM server.
>Is the "mailer=local" corrrect?

>to=<cisna-barry at wc235.k12.il.us>, delay=00:00:02, xdelay=00:00:02,
>mailer=local, pri=86494, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


This is from the MTA log, thus the message was delivered from Mailman
to this MTA and this MTA delivered it somewhere - perhaps a local
mailbox, have you checked?


>I have copyed pasted aliases into /etc/aliases,,,run "newaliases...


Mailman's aliases have to do with delivery of incoming mail to Mailman,
not sending from Mailman.


>There uis surely a built in "tester" in MM to replicte a sent email to
>MM,then the sendout to list members,but i cant find it?

You can use bin/inject to place a message in Mailman's 'in' queue, but
look in Mailman's 'smtp' log. Do you see outgoing messages there? It
seems that Mailman is delivering the mail to the outgoing MTA. What
happens to it after that is an MTA issue, not a Mailman issue.


>Below is a cpoy from the mail server that MM resides on. I NEVER see any
>listing on the actual mail server that this is sending to, though
>
>MM 2.18  Fedora COre 5  sendmail

>to=<cisna-barry at wc235.k12.il.us>, delay=00:00:02, xdelay=00:00:02,
>mailer=local, pri=86494, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


If I understand correctly, Mailman is delivering to sendmail on the
local machine, sendmail is sending the mail somewhere as evidenced by
the above log entry, but the mail isn't getting to the end recipient.
This would seem to be an issue with the local sendmail. It sent the
mail somewhere.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From demonicpagan at gmail.com  Sat Dec  2 21:35:07 2006
From: demonicpagan at gmail.com (Dustin)
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 14:35:07 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installing Mailman with Qmail +VPopmail and using
	virtual domains
Message-ID: <01af01c71651$5d7cf1e0$1b01a8c0@iceman>

I am reposting a request for help that I posted earlier in regards to
setting up Mailman with VPopmail and Qmail.   So far, my request has gone
unresponded to and I would really appreciate some assistance.

 

Here is what I posted earlier:

 

I have been searching everywhere for like some sort of tutorial on how to
set this up.  The manual is very vague on how to handle virtual domains.
 
 
 
I have mailman set up in /home/mailman
 
 
 
In /home/mailman I have 3 directories (1 for each of my virtual hosts) 
 
 
 
When I went to install mailman I ran 3 separate installs
 
 
 
./configure -prefix=/home/maiman/s2i --with-mail-gid=vchkpwd
--with-cgi-gid=www-data --with-python=/usr/bin/python2.3
 
./configure -prefix=/home/maiman/ce.com --with-mail-gid=vchkpwd
--with-cgi-gid=www-data --with-python=/usr/bin/python2.3
 
./configure -prefix=/home/maiman/ce.net --with-mail-gid=vchkpwd
--with-cgi-gid=www-data --with-python=/usr/bin/python2.3
 
 
 
I am really unsure how to set up the .qmail-default and where to place it.
 
 
 
The qmail-to-mailman.py I have in each of the 3 directories.  Another thing
I am unsure of is how to set up the aliases.
 
 
 
At the moment my /var/qmail/control/virtualdomains is set to 
 
lists.stelth2000inc.com:lists.stelth2000inc.com
 
lists.celestial-essences.net:lists.celestial-essences.net
 
lists.celestial-essences.com:lists.celestial-essences.com
 
 
 
should I be changing the 2nd part to mailman?
 
 
 
If anyone could assist me or point me somewhere that will better clarify
what I'm trying to do, that would be greatly appreciated.
 
 
 
Thanks in advance for any assistance provided

 


From fpga at pacbell.net  Sat Dec  2 23:12:32 2006
From: fpga at pacbell.net (Duane Clark)
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2006 14:12:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subject line filtering
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00611301755h4d10c806u8300c00ba8819a8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <456F1C28.1080802@pacbell.net>	
	<6fbe3da00611301203y325b663bm1c337694ee13f3c5@mail.gmail.com>	
	<456F6C9D.4040201@pacbell.net>
	<6fbe3da00611301755h4d10c806u8300c00ba8819a8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4571FA50.5050909@pacbell.net>

Patrick Bogen wrote:
> SpamDetect should be the first handler in the pipeline, which means
> that header_filter_rules should be one of the first things checked. I
> do not know what is causing your issue.
> 
> What does the vette log have to say about these messages?

Well, that particular type of spam seems to have abruptly disappeared 
for now (I try the filters on one list until I see that they work, and 
then add them to the other lists). So I guess I will wait to see if this 
is just a lull and it starts up again.

I don't have direct access to the logs; I just have access via the web 
interface. Hmm... I would think that would be helpful to have web access 
to. If that style of spam starts up again (I imagine it will) then I'll 
see if the sys admin can take a look at the logs.

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec  2 23:17:32 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 14:17:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installing Mailman with Qmail +VPopmail and
	usingvirtual domains
In-Reply-To: <01af01c71651$5d7cf1e0$1b01a8c0@iceman>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612021417320140a9b51d4c@msapiro>

Dustin wrote:

>I am reposting a request for help that I posted earlier in regards to
>setting up Mailman with VPopmail and Qmail.   So far, my request has gone
>unresponded to and I would really appreciate some assistance.


I for one didn't respond because qmail aliases have always been a
mystery to me, and I have never been motivated to try to understand
them, and qmail-to-mailman.py is contributed code about which I also
know nothing.

You might get better response by contacting a qmail related list/forum
and/or the contributer of qmail-to-mailman.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brcisna at eazylivin.net  Sun Dec  3 01:28:42 2006
From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (brcisna at eazylivin.net)
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 18:28:42 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list members do not get mail :details
Message-ID: <46440.192.168.254.3.1165105722.squirrel@server1>

Mark,

Thanks for the quick reply. What i needed to do was in my mm.cfg I had to
add :
DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
SMTPHOST        = 'mailserverip [or hostname]'  # destination mail server
SMTPPORT        =   25

restarted mailman , and mail went to "other" mailserver to all subscribed
users!
It did appear that mail was sending out from mail man to correct server
without errors but it never showed in the actual mail server?
Yes you were right in the smtp/MM log,it wa s showing sent to x recips,as
a succesful send
I tried doing SMART_HOST> [to other mailserver], in sendmail.mc but this
didnt work.
I should have read more the Defauly.py file now that it is all said and
done. Im not sure i mentioned the "posts" did appear, but memebers simple
did not receive the list postings,,until i done the above.
BTW: I will try the /bin/inject thing just to see how that works for
future reference, This may have helped me "See " something in shorter
time:).
Also just for future reference, i was using sendmail on my MM server and
Postfix on the actual mail server.

Thanks, again,

Barry

         '> Hello List,
>
> I have setup a couple other MM installs in the past.  This is the first
> time i have installed MM on a server different from the mail server that
> users use.
> I never see any smtp-failures in the MM logs?
> Ive went through the faq 3.1.4 "Users not receiving mail". No joy:(.
> Below is a copy paste of the mail log on the actual MM server.
> Is the "mailer=local" corrrect?
> I have copyed pasted aliases into /etc/aliases,,,run "newaliases...
> I can telnet send from MM server to Mail server no probs. it appears by
> the post bewlow that the mail has sent to the ,,remote mail server( on the
> same LAN). Im not familar at all even after reading for many hours on how
> to use the "test" folder in the MM directory? I must still be  newbie:).
> There uis surely a built in "tester" in MM to replicte a sent email to
> MM,then the sendout to list members,but i cant find it?
> Below is a cpoy from the mail server that MM resides on. I NEVER see any
> listing on the actual mail server that this is sending to, though
>
> MM 2.18  Fedora COre 5  sendmail
>
> Thanks,
>
> Barry Cisna
>
>


From brcisna at eazylivin.net  Sun Dec  3 01:34:46 2006
From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (brcisna at eazylivin.net)
Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 18:34:46 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list members do not get mail :details,FIXED
Message-ID: <44372.192.168.254.3.1165106086.squirrel@server1>

Mark,

Thanks for the quick reply. What i needed to do was in my mm.cfg I had to
add :
DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
SMTPHOST        = 'mailserverip [or hostname]'  # destination mail server
SMTPPORT        =   25

restarted mailman , and mail went to "other" mailserver to all subscribed
users!
It did appear that mail was sending out from mail man to correct server
without errors but it never showed in the actual mail server?
Yes you were right in the smtp/MM log,it wa s showing sent to x recips,as
a succesful send
I tried doing SMART_HOST> [to other mailserver], in sendmail.mc but this
didnt work.
I should have read more the Defauly.py file now that it is all said and
done. Im not sure i mentioned the "posts" did appear, but memebers simple
did not receive the list postings,,until i done the above.
BTW: I will try the /bin/inject thing just to see how that works for
future reference, This may have helped me "See " something in shorter
time:).
Also just for future reference, i was using sendmail on my MM server and
Postfix on the actual mail server.

Thanks, again,

Barry

         '> Hello List,
>
> I have setup a couple other MM installs in the past.  This is the first
> time i have installed MM on a server different from the mail server that
> users use.
> I never see any smtp-failures in the MM logs?
> Ive went through the faq 3.1.4 "Users not receiving mail". No joy:(.
> Below is a copy paste of the mail log on the actual MM server.
> Is the "mailer=local" corrrect?
> I have copyed pasted aliases into /etc/aliases,,,run "newaliases...
> I can telnet send from MM server to Mail server no probs. it appears by
> the post bewlow that the mail has sent to the ,,remote mail server( on the
> same LAN). Im not familar at all even after reading for many hours on how
> to use the "test" folder in the MM directory? I must still be  newbie:).
> There uis surely a built in "tester" in MM to replicte a sent email to
> MM,then the sendout to list members,but i cant find it?
> Below is a cpoy from the mail server that MM resides on. I NEVER see any
> listing on the actual mail server that this is sending to, though
>
> MM 2.18  Fedora COre 5  sendmail
>
> Thanks,
>
> Barry Cisna

From dave at boost-consulting.com  Sun Dec  3 17:41:28 2006
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 11:41:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Mailman and Sendmail
Message-ID: <87k6199bk7.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>


Hi,

I'm trying to follow the directions for integrating Mailman with
Sendmail, but I think they may be incomplete.  It looks like there
were orginally some instructions directed at installations like mine
(a few users, a few mailing lists, *one* computer), and they were
entirely replaced by instructions for installations where an entire
host could be dedicated to serving mailman lists.  There are oblique
references to how much easier the mm-handler method is than the
alternative "maintaining lists of aliases" but no details about what
that alternative involves.

I don't mind going the mm-handler way if it's more scalable, so I
pointed a separate domain, lists.boost-consulting.com, at my server.
But now I have to learn about virtual hosting with sendmail and figure
out how to integrate my .mc file with the supplied mailman.mc and have
the respective settings that are different only apply to the intended
hosts.  I don't know too much about sendmail (or email protocols in
general, really), so this is turning into a big and risky project.  Is
there anyone here who can help me get this stuff configured without
bringing my email system to its knees for too long?

Thanks in advance,

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com

From msapiro at value.net  Sun Dec  3 19:50:57 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 10:50:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Mailman and Sendmail
In-Reply-To: <87k6199bk7.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612031050570437fb7f704e@msapiro>

David Abrahams wrote:
>
>I'm trying to follow the directions for integrating Mailman with
>Sendmail, but I think they may be incomplete.  It looks like there
>were orginally some instructions directed at installations like mine
>(a few users, a few mailing lists, *one* computer), and they were
>entirely replaced by instructions for installations where an entire
>host could be dedicated to serving mailman lists.  There are oblique
>references to how much easier the mm-handler method is than the
>alternative "maintaining lists of aliases" but no details about what
>that alternative involves.


It involves maintaining a set of aliases in /etc/aliases for each list
such as

## mailman mailing list
mailman:            "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe:  "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe:"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe
mailman"

This can be done automatically. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.049.htp>
and the post to which it refers.



>I don't mind going the mm-handler way if it's more scalable, so I
>pointed a separate domain, lists.boost-consulting.com, at my server.
>But now I have to learn about virtual hosting with sendmail and figure
>out how to integrate my .mc file with the supplied mailman.mc and have
>the respective settings that are different only apply to the intended
>hosts.  I don't know too much about sendmail (or email protocols in
>general, really), so this is turning into a big and risky project.  Is
>there anyone here who can help me get this stuff configured without
>bringing my email system to its knees for too long?


Look at the 'automated' method referred to in the FAQ. You may decide
you don't need to go the mm-handler route.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dave at boost-consulting.com  Sun Dec  3 20:29:10 2006
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 14:29:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Mailman and Sendmail
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612031050570437fb7f704e@msapiro> (Mark Sapiro's message
	of "Sun\, 3 Dec 2006 10\:50\:57 -0800")
References: <PC1760200612031050570437fb7f704e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <87fybwaid5.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> writes:

> Look at the 'automated' method referred to in the FAQ. You may decide
> you don't need to go the mm-handler route.

Mark, thank you!  This looks a *lot* easier than what I was trying to
do, and perhaps the post even implies that what I was trying to do
won't work:

  "many people cannot use David Champion's mm-handler due to shared
   use of domains"

(what exactly does he mean by "shared use of domains?")

All that said, the follow-up post really gives me pause:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-June/037543.html

Is that a legitimate worry?

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com

From dave at boost-consulting.com  Sun Dec  3 20:32:20 2006
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 14:32:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Mailman and Sendmail
In-Reply-To: <87fybwaid5.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com> (David Abrahams's
	message of "Sun\, 03 Dec 2006 14\:29\:10 -0500")
References: <PC1760200612031050570437fb7f704e@msapiro>
	<87fybwaid5.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>
Message-ID: <87bqmkai7v.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>

David Abrahams <dave at boost-consulting.com> writes:

> All that said, the follow-up post really gives me pause:
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-June/037543.html
>
> Is that a legitimate worry?

Whoops, I now see that by "this perl script" he's referring to
mm-handler.

Thanks.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com

From darkservant at gmail.com  Sun Dec  3 20:54:09 2006
From: darkservant at gmail.com (Dark Servant)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 20:54:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installing Mailman with Qmail +VPopmail and
	using virtual domains
In-Reply-To: <01af01c71651$5d7cf1e0$1b01a8c0@iceman>
References: <01af01c71651$5d7cf1e0$1b01a8c0@iceman>
Message-ID: <a888e20c0612031154q12f15d22rf27f1b9e0c5dcb90@mail.gmail.com>

2006/12/2, Dustin <demonicpagan at gmail.com>:
>
> I am reposting a request for help that I posted earlier in regards to
> setting up Mailman with VPopmail and Qmail.   So far, my request has gone
> unresponded to and I would really appreciate some assistance.
>
> I have been searching everywhere for like some sort of tutorial on how to
> set this up.  The manual is very vague on how to handle virtual domains.
> [...]
>
>
I set it up using this tutorial:
http://nick.vargish.org/clues/qmail-vpopmail-mailman.html
worked well

David

From msapiro at value.net  Sun Dec  3 21:14:13 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 12:14:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Mailman and Sendmail
In-Reply-To: <87fybwaid5.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061203121413021849a16687@msapiro>

David Abrahams wrote:
>
>Mark, thank you!  This looks a *lot* easier than what I was trying to
>do, and perhaps the post even implies that what I was trying to do
>won't work:
>
>  "many people cannot use David Champion's mm-handler due to shared
>   use of domains"
>
>(what exactly does he mean by "shared use of domains?")


He means a given domain which is the recipient domain for both list
mail and at least some non-list mail.

mm-handler works best if the lists have their own domain which doesn't
receive non-list mail. Then Sendmail is configured so all the mail to
that domain goes to mm-handler for delivery to Mailman. If there are
other, non-list addresses in the same domain, they have to be handled
via their own aliases 'ahead of' mm-handler. If there are a lot of
these, the problem of handling the non-list addresses becomes larger
than the problem of handling list mail via aliases without mm-handler.

Of course, there are other MTAs (e.g., Exim) that can be configured to
determine whether an address should be routed to Mailman by examining
the Mailman file system to determine if a particular name is a Mailman
list, but with Sendmail, the easier way is probably the method
referenced in the FAQ.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dave at boost-consulting.com  Sun Dec  3 22:20:40 2006
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 16:20:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Mailman and Sendmail
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061203121413021849a16687@msapiro> (Mark Sapiro's message
	of "Sun\, 3 Dec 2006 12\:14\:13 -0800")
References: <PC176020061203121413021849a16687@msapiro>
Message-ID: <877ix8ad7b.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> writes:

> David Abrahams wrote:
>>
>>Mark, thank you!  This looks a *lot* easier than what I was trying to
>>do, and perhaps the post even implies that what I was trying to do
>>won't work:
>>
>>  "many people cannot use David Champion's mm-handler due to shared
>>   use of domains"
>>
>>(what exactly does he mean by "shared use of domains?")
>
>
> He means a given domain which is the recipient domain for both list
> mail and at least some non-list mail.  mm-handler works best if the
> lists have their own domain which doesn't receive non-list mail.

So I gathered.  That's what I was doing by trying to designate
lists.boost-consulting.com as the domain for mailman.  I think I'd
still like to maintain that separation in case I need to switch to
mm-handler someday.

> Then Sendmail is configured so all the mail to
> that domain goes to mm-handler for delivery to Mailman. If there are
> other, non-list addresses in the same domain, they have to be handled
> via their own aliases 'ahead of' mm-handler. 

Oh, so every regular user in that domain needs to be dealt with via an
alias somehow?

> If there are a lot of these, the problem of handling the non-list
> addresses becomes larger than the problem of handling list mail via
> aliases without mm-handler.
>
> Of course, there are other MTAs (e.g., Exim) that can be configured to
> determine whether an address should be routed to Mailman by examining
> the Mailman file system to determine if a particular name is a Mailman
> list, 

Yeah, we tried exim but failed to make exim to do SMTP AUTH via the
same saslauthd that was being used for Cyrus, and the exim list was of
little help to us, so we had to give up on it.

> but with Sendmail, the easier way is probably the method
> referenced in the FAQ.

Thanks.  If I hack up a Python script for this purpose I will post it
here.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com

From dave at boost-consulting.com  Sun Dec  3 22:51:37 2006
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 16:51:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Mailman and Sendmail
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612031050570437fb7f704e@msapiro> (Mark Sapiro's message
	of "Sun\, 3 Dec 2006 10\:50\:57 -0800")
References: <PC1760200612031050570437fb7f704e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <87zma48x7a.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> writes:

> Look at the 'automated' method referred to in the FAQ. You may decide
> you don't need to go the mm-handler route.

Heh, first hurdle:

The instructions at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-June/037518.html
start with

  Create /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases with these commands:

  /bin/cp /home/mailman/data/aliases /etc/mailman.aliases
  /usr/bin/newaliases

but I have no /home/mailman/, nor any /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
(which is what I suppose is intended) on my system.

Perhaps /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases should contain

  ## mailman mailing list
  mailman:            "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
  mailman-admin:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
  mailman-bounces:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
  mailman-confirm:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
  mailman-join:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
  mailman-leave:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
  mailman-owner:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
  mailman-request:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
  mailman-subscribe:  "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
  mailman-unsubscribe:"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"

?

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com

From dave at boost-consulting.com  Sun Dec  3 22:56:56 2006
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 16:56:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Mailman and Sendmail
In-Reply-To: <87zma48x7a.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com> (David Abrahams's
	message of "Sun\, 03 Dec 2006 16\:51\:37 -0500")
References: <PC1760200612031050570437fb7f704e@msapiro>
	<87zma48x7a.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>
Message-ID: <87veks8wyf.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>

David Abrahams <dave at boost-consulting.com> writes:

> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> writes:
>
>> Look at the 'automated' method referred to in the FAQ. You may decide
>> you don't need to go the mm-handler route.
>
> Heh, first hurdle:
>
> The instructions at
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-June/037518.html
> start with
>
>   Create /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases with these commands:
>
>   /bin/cp /home/mailman/data/aliases /etc/mailman.aliases
>   /usr/bin/newaliases
>
> but I have no /home/mailman/, nor any /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
> (which is what I suppose is intended) on my system.
>
> Perhaps /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases should contain
>
>   ## mailman mailing list
>   mailman:            "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
>   mailman-admin:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
>   mailman-bounces:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
>   mailman-confirm:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
>   mailman-join:       "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
>   mailman-leave:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
>   mailman-owner:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
>   mailman-request:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
>   mailman-subscribe:  "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
>   mailman-unsubscribe:"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"
>
> ?

Heh, and even if I do that, I don't end up with a
/usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases.  It seems like something needs to
tell newaliases about /etc/mailman.aliases, and the only thing I see
in the instructions that could do it is a later step:

  3. We have to tell sendmail about the new alias file.

  in /etc/mail/sendmail.mc find this line:
  define(`ALIAS_FILE', `/etc/aliases')dnl
  and change it to:
  define(`ALIAS_FILE', `/etc/aliases,/etc/mailman.aliases')dnl
  Run a make (or otherwise refresh sendmail.cf and then restart sendmail

  Now when we run newaliases, it will rebuild both alias files.

Am I missing something?  I feel like I'm groping around in the dark
here.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com

From msapiro at value.net  Sun Dec  3 23:32:00 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 14:32:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Mailman and Sendmail
In-Reply-To: <87zma48x7a.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612031432000218c00aaf3a@msapiro>

David Abrahams wrote:

>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> writes:
>
>> Look at the 'automated' method referred to in the FAQ. You may decide
>> you don't need to go the mm-handler route.
>
>Heh, first hurdle:
>
>The instructions at
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-June/037518.html
>start with
>
>  Create /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases with these commands:
>
>  /bin/cp /home/mailman/data/aliases /etc/mailman.aliases
>  /usr/bin/newaliases
>
>but I have no /home/mailman/, nor any /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
>(which is what I suppose is intended) on my system.


After you set MTA = 'Postfix' in mm_cfg.py and run bin/genaliases, the
Mailman aliases will be put in /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases, before
the POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD is run by the genaliases process. Then as lists
are created/deleted, /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases will be
maintained automatically.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Sun Dec  3 23:12:54 2006
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 17:12:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mbox files
Message-ID: <20061203221254.GA5932@allhats.xcski.com>

Does the /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/listname.mbox directory have to
contain just one file, or can I break it up by year or something to make
them more managable?

I had my mailman lists on my home server, but a few years ago I moved them
to a virtual private server.  Because the disk space was limited there, I
started trimming down the listname.mbox files down to just the previous
two years worth.  But now I've moved them again, this time to a colo box
where I have more disk space than I know what to do with.  I want to
restore the old archives.  Can I just dump the old mbox file in the same
directory as the current archives and do a "arch listname"?  Or will I
have to run "arch" once for the old file and once for the listname.mbox
file?

Will "arch" handle the case where there is a bit of overlap between two
files (the files from my home system go from 1999 to mid-2005, and the
ones on my VPS go from the beginning of 2005 to the present)?



-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
Things which do you no good in aviation: Altitude above you.
Runway behind you.  Fuel in the truck.  Half a second ago.
Approach plates in the car. The airspeed you don't have.

From msapiro at value.net  Sun Dec  3 23:55:17 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 14:55:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Mailman and Sendmail
In-Reply-To: <87veks8wyf.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612031455170671a027cf90@msapiro>

David Abrahams wrote:
>
>Heh, and even if I do that, I don't end up with a
>/usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases.


You have to create /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases with execute
permission and containing

/bin/cp /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases /etc/mailman.aliases
/usr/bin/newaliases

>It seems like something needs to
>tell newaliases about /etc/mailman.aliases, and the only thing I see
>in the instructions that could do it is a later step:


It is the

POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/bin/sudo /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases'

That tells the process to run that file in order to update system
aliases from the /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases that the process
creates/updates.


>  3. We have to tell sendmail about the new alias file.
>
>  in /etc/mail/sendmail.mc find this line:
>  define(`ALIAS_FILE', `/etc/aliases')dnl
>  and change it to:
>  define(`ALIAS_FILE', `/etc/aliases,/etc/mailman.aliases')dnl
>  Run a make (or otherwise refresh sendmail.cf and then restart sendmail
>
>  Now when we run newaliases, it will rebuild both alias files.
>
>Am I missing something?  I feel like I'm groping around in the dark
>here.


Here's what happens:

1) You create /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases with execute permission
and containing

/bin/cp /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases /etc/mailman.aliases
/usr/bin/newaliases

This will actually be run later.

2) You put in mm_cfg.py

MTA='Postfix'
POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/bin/sudo /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases'

What this does is it tells Mailman's bin/genaliases and list
creation/deletion processes to run Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py as part of
the process to deal with aliases. This in turn updates data/aliases (a
fixed file name) and then invokes POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD to update the
system aliases. That command runs the script in
/usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases (as root) to copy the aliases to
/etc/mailman.aliases (This is necessary because of point 1. in the
post at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-June/037518.html>)
and run /usr/bin/newaliases to update Sendmail's database.

Now Mailman aliases are being automatically maintained in
/etc/mailman.aliases, but none of this actually happens until step 5.
of the above post's instructions.

3) You add /etc/mailman.aliases to Sendmail's configuration so Sendmail
will use that file.

You do the other steps as outlined in the post.

Does this help?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec  4 00:14:40 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 15:14:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mbox files
In-Reply-To: <20061203221254.GA5932@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061203151440023455f3c512@msapiro>

Paul Tomblin wrote:

>Does the /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/listname.mbox directory have to
>contain just one file, or can I break it up by year or something to make
>them more managable?


It can contain as many files as you want organized however you want,
but the one named listname.mbox is the only one accessable via the
web, and it is the one that new posts are added to.


>I had my mailman lists on my home server, but a few years ago I moved them
>to a virtual private server.  Because the disk space was limited there, I
>started trimming down the listname.mbox files down to just the previous
>two years worth.  But now I've moved them again, this time to a colo box
>where I have more disk space than I know what to do with.  I want to
>restore the old archives.  Can I just dump the old mbox file in the same
>directory as the current archives and do a "arch listname"?  Or will I
>have to run "arch" once for the old file and once for the listname.mbox
>file?


You will need to run

  bin/arch --wipe listname archives/private/listname.mbox/old.mbox

followed by

  bin/arch listname

(which uses listname.mbox/listname.mbox by default). You could actually
do it in the other order, but the --wipe option needs to be on the
first command, or if the existing archives match the existing
listname.mbox, you could just do

  bin/arch listname archives/private/listname.mbox/old.mbox

to add the old ones.

Note that there are pros and cons to all the above having to do with
changing message numbers - hence, changing message URLs - in the
archive which will invalidate saved URLs now or in the future.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.033.htp>
and
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp>
for more on this.


>Will "arch" handle the case where there is a bit of overlap between two
>files (the files from my home system go from 1999 to mid-2005, and the
>ones on my VPS go from the beginning of 2005 to the present)?


Actually, I think it will (i.e. I think it doesn't archive the same
Message-ID: twice), but this may exacerbate any message renumbering
issue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Mon Dec  4 01:11:23 2006
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 19:11:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mbox files
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061203151440023455f3c512@msapiro>
References: <20061203221254.GA5932@allhats.xcski.com>
	<PC176020061203151440023455f3c512@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061204001123.GE19652@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Mark Sapiro (msapiro at value.net):
> (which uses listname.mbox/listname.mbox by default). You could actually
> do it in the other order, but the --wipe option needs to be on the
> first command, or if the existing archives match the existing
> listname.mbox, you could just do
> 
>   bin/arch listname archives/private/listname.mbox/old.mbox
> 
> to add the old ones.
> 
> Note that there are pros and cons to all the above having to do with
> changing message numbers - hence, changing message URLs - in the
> archive which will invalidate saved URLs now or in the future.

The problem is that I have 250,000 articles in this mbox file, so when I
tried to arch it, arch ended up using over 1Gb of swap space, and it
slowed my computer down to a crawl.  I gave up and used the mbox splitter
awk program I found in the list archives and I'm now building the archives
500 messages at a time.  Hope that works.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
Using vi is kind of like having sex.  The first time to use it, it's kind
of awkward, but after using for a while you start to get good at it and
enjoy it.  -- Eric Merkel 

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec  4 01:58:04 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 16:58:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mbox files
In-Reply-To: <20061204001123.GE19652@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612031658040406fb7f6ffa@msapiro>

Paul Tomblin wrote:
>
>The problem is that I have 250,000 articles in this mbox file, so when I
>tried to arch it, arch ended up using over 1Gb of swap space, and it
>slowed my computer down to a crawl.  I gave up and used the mbox splitter
>awk program I found in the list archives and I'm now building the archives
>500 messages at a time.  Hope that works.


It should.

Also, you can effectively do the same thing without breaking up the
mbox by using the --start= and --end= options on bin/arch. See

 bin/arch --help

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tech14 at netaxis.ca  Mon Dec  4 02:07:23 2006
From: tech14 at netaxis.ca (Pierre Forget)
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 20:07:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Mailman and Sendmail
In-Reply-To: <87k6199bk7.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>
References: <87k6199bk7.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>
Message-ID: <20061203200723.q8q876cp6lu88cs8@mailman.netaxis.ca>

Hi,

If it can help. I had problems installing and integrating with sendmail.

Culprit was that it needs to know under which group sendmail is used. 
So, look carefully in your sendmail.cf (DefaultUser) and make sure you 
compile mailman with the switch to include this group for :

--with-cgi-gid=group

and make an install user that is part of the mailman group to install 
the mailman software.

If you try to send an email to the list, it may show you under which 
group sendmail is using. This helped me.


Pierre Forget


Quoting David Abrahams <dave at boost-consulting.com>:

>
> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to follow the directions for integrating Mailman with
> Sendmail, but I think they may be incomplete.  It looks like there
> were orginally some instructions directed at installations like mine
> (a few users, a few mailing lists, *one* computer), and they were
> entirely replaced by instructions for installations where an entire
> host could be dedicated to serving mailman lists.  There are oblique
> references to how much easier the mm-handler method is than the
> alternative "maintaining lists of aliases" but no details about what
> that alternative involves.
>
> I don't mind going the mm-handler way if it's more scalable, so I
> pointed a separate domain, lists.boost-consulting.com, at my server.
> But now I have to learn about virtual hosting with sendmail and figure
> out how to integrate my .mc file with the supplied mailman.mc and have
> the respective settings that are different only apply to the intended
> hosts.  I don't know too much about sendmail (or email protocols in
> general, really), so this is turning into a big and risky project.  Is
> there anyone here who can help me get this stuff configured without
> bringing my email system to its knees for too long?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> --
> Dave Abrahams
> Boost Consulting
> www.boost-consulting.com
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/tech14%40netaxis.ca
>
> Security Policy: 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>



----------------------------------------------------------------
Netaxis inc, www.netaxis.ca
Ce message a ?t? envoy? en utilisant IMP, le Programme de Messagerie Internet.
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.



From ptomblin at xcski.com  Mon Dec  4 02:10:11 2006
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 20:10:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mbox files
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612031658040406fb7f6ffa@msapiro>
References: <20061204001123.GE19652@allhats.xcski.com>
	<PC1760200612031658040406fb7f6ffa@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061204011011.GA31596@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Mark Sapiro (msapiro at value.net):
> Paul Tomblin wrote:
> >slowed my computer down to a crawl.  I gave up and used the mbox splitter
> >awk program I found in the list archives and I'm now building the archives
> >500 messages at a time.  Hope that works.
> 
> 
> It should.
> 
> Also, you can effectively do the same thing without breaking up the
> mbox by using the --start= and --end= options on bin/arch. See
> 
>  bin/arch --help

Is there any way to make arch smarter about "^From " lines?  First pass
through the archive, I ended up with a bazillion messages in the archive
for today, all with "No subject" because it was treating any line like
"^From " as the start of a message.  It would be nice if it recognized the
difference between real mbox start-of-message "^From " and just random
lines from some list member.

I suspect that this probably isn't generically possible.  I made use for
the fact that real mbox start-of-message lines have the listname in the
"^From " line, and made my mbox splitter awk script put a ">" in any
"^From " line that didn't have the listname in it.

So far (on message 30,000), it has only given me one "No subject" line in
the archive, but that's because somebody actually put a real
start-of-message line in his message because he was complaining about slow
message delivery and copied the whole message header.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,
for there you have been, there you long to return." -- Leonardo da Vinci.

From jnguyen at ncmir.ucsd.edu  Mon Dec  4 02:05:46 2006
From: jnguyen at ncmir.ucsd.edu (Jana Nguyen)
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 17:05:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] failed to send out message when posting to a list
Message-ID: <4573746A.30905@ncmir.ucsd.edu>

Hi,

I'm using postfix with mailman and I can't post mail to the mailing list.
I can subscribe to a list, both I and the owner of the mailing list get 
an email notifications.  But I do not receive email when
posting to any of the mailing list that I created.

I've checked the duplication email option on the admin interface are 
unchecked.  Error message in /var/log/maillog:


Dec  3 16:44:25 portal spamd[2960]: prefork: child states: II
Dec  3 16:44:25 portal postfix/pipe[6362]: 95A5629A96: 
to=<jnguyen at ncmir.ucsd.edu>, relay=spamfilter, delay=1, status=sent (dummy)
Dec  3 16:44:25 portal postfix/qmgr[14320]: 95A5629A96: removed
Dec  3 16:44:25 portal postfix/pickup[14319]: 8C9A929B4D: uid=520 
from=<portal-bounces at nbirn.net>
Dec  3 16:44:25 portal postfix/cleanup[6361]: 8C9A929B4D: 
message-id=<mailman.0.1165193063.6124.portal at nbirn.net>
Dec  3 16:44:25 portal postfix/qmgr[14320]: 8C9A929B4D: 
from=<portal-bounces at nbirn.net>, size=2194, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Dec  3 16:44:25 portal postfix/smtp[6370]: 8C9A929B4D: 
to=<jnguyen at ncmir.ucsd.edu>, relay=bigiron.ucsd.edu[132.239.131.209], 
delay=0, status=sent (250 ok:  Message 1826098 accepted)
Dec  3 16:44:25 portal postfix/qmgr[14320]: 8C9A929B4D: removed


I used to were able to post to list, but after I changed the 
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST to not to be the same as my DEFAULT_URL_HOST, it 
stopped working.
The entry in my /usr/local/mailman/Mailman is:

MTA = 'Postfix'

SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
SMTPPORT = 25
POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postalias'
POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postmap'

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'nbirn.net'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'portal.nbirn.net'

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Mon Dec  4 02:15:23 2006
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 20:15:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mbox files
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612031658040406fb7f6ffa@msapiro>
References: <20061204001123.GE19652@allhats.xcski.com>
	<PC1760200612031658040406fb7f6ffa@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061204011523.GA475@allhats.xcski.com>

Oh yeah, one other minor issue with arch - in January of 2000, my list got
some messages with a year of "100", as in "^Date: Sat, 1 Jan 100 16:58:49
-0500 (EST)".  arch files them all under today's date. It would be nice if
arch could handle those, but I'm not holding my breath in expectation
since it's not likely to affect anybody else for 94 years or so.


-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
Is it so difficult to master your bloody pride and admit that yes, a bunch
of hackers turned out a better suite of utilities than your teams of
engineers ever could?  -- Robert Uhl

From turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp  Mon Dec  4 03:01:18 2006
From: turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2006 11:01:18 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mbox files
In-Reply-To: <20061204011011.GA31596@allhats.xcski.com>
References: <20061204001123.GE19652@allhats.xcski.com>
	<PC1760200612031658040406fb7f6ffa@msapiro>
	<20061204011011.GA31596@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <87fybw2zdd.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Paul Tomblin writes:

 > Is there any way to make arch smarter about "^From " lines?

Yes, but it's not a good idea to put it in the distribution, at least
not without a lot of careful hedging about and making it an option
defaulting to off.  You can't even being sure that From_ lines will be
consistent within a single mbox.  See

http://www.jwz.org/doc/content-length.html

I think the better approach is to do just what you did, and make a
site-specific script to do From-munging.  Of course there's nothing
wrong with putting them in a contrib section in the distribution; my
worry is about changing bin/arch.

IMHO YMMV


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Mon Dec  4 02:58:34 2006
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 20:58:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Another archive questions
Message-ID: <20061204015834.GB6218@allhats.xcski.com>

I noticed that the messages.html files only have 6 digits in them.  Does
that mean that it will break when we reach 999,999 messages?  I'm already
up over 300,000 on one of my lists.

I know, we'll all be communicating by neural implant by then.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
 SCSI is *NOT* magic. There are *fundamental technical reasons* why it is
 necessary to sacrifice a young goat to your SCSI chain now and then.

From dave at boost-consulting.com  Mon Dec  4 03:40:33 2006
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 21:40:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Mailman and Sendmail
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612031455170671a027cf90@msapiro> (Mark Sapiro's message
	of "Sun\, 3 Dec 2006 14\:55\:17 -0800")
References: <PC1760200612031455170671a027cf90@msapiro>
Message-ID: <87ejrg8jtq.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> writes:

> David Abrahams wrote:
>>
>>Heh, and even if I do that, I don't end up with a
>>/usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases.
>
>
> You have to create /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases with execute
> permission and containing
>
> /bin/cp /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases /etc/mailman.aliases
> /usr/bin/newaliases


Oh!  The substitution of that word "containing" for the post's "with"
made all the difference. :)

I read "create this file with these commands" as, "use these commands
to create /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases"

> It is the
>
> POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/bin/sudo /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases'
>
> That tells the process to run that file in order to update system
> aliases from the /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases that the process
> creates/updates.

Sure.

> 2) You put in mm_cfg.py
>
> MTA='Postfix'
> POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/bin/sudo /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases'
>
> What this does is it tells Mailman's bin/genaliases and list
> creation/deletion processes to run Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py as part of
> the process to deal with aliases. This in turn updates data/aliases (a
> fixed file name) and then invokes POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD to update the
> system aliases. That command runs the script in
> /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases (as root) to copy the aliases to
> /etc/mailman.aliases (This is necessary because of point 1. in the
> post at
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-June/037518.html>)
> and run /usr/bin/newaliases to update Sendmail's database.
>
> Now Mailman aliases are being automatically maintained in
> /etc/mailman.aliases, but none of this actually happens until step 5.
> of the above post's instructions.

Uh-huh.  But now I have all the products mentioned in step 5 except
for mailman.aliases.db.  I guess 2 out of 3 ain't bad, but... any
clues?

> Does this help?

Pretty good, thanks, but still a mystery lurks.  Where's
mailman.aliases.db?

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec  4 04:02:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 19:02:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mbox files
In-Reply-To: <87fybw2zdd.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612031902540921f35c294f@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>
>I think the better approach is to do just what you did, and make a
>site-specific script to do From-munging.  Of course there's nothing
>wrong with putting them in a contrib section in the distribution; my
>worry is about changing bin/arch.


Note that there is such a script already in the distribution. It is
bin/cleanarch  which as Stephen notes, may or may not work for you.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec  4 04:10:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 19:10:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Mailman and Sendmail
In-Reply-To: <87ejrg8jtq.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061203191001054608653343@msapiro>

David Abrahams wrote:
>
>Uh-huh.  But now I have all the products mentioned in step 5 except
>for mailman.aliases.db.  I guess 2 out of 3 ain't bad, but... any
>clues?


If /etc/mailman.aliases is properly referenced in the sendmail
configuration, the /usr/bin/newaliases command in the
/usr/bin/newaliases script should create/update the
/etc/mailman.aliases.db file.

Did you remember "Run a make (or otherwise refresh sendmail.cf and then
restart sendmail" from step 3?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec  4 04:22:40 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 19:22:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Another archive questions
In-Reply-To: <20061204015834.GB6218@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612031922400765a9281fc5@msapiro>

Paul Tomblin wrote:

>I noticed that the messages.html files only have 6 digits in them.  Does
>that mean that it will break when we reach 999,999 messages?  I'm already
>up over 300,000 on one of my lists.

It will go to 7 or more digits as required by the sequence number, but
even if it didn't, it probably wouldn't matter as the rolled over
numbers wouldn't be in the same (default=monthly, max=yearly) archive
volume.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Mon Dec  4 04:25:45 2006
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 22:25:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mbox files
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612031902540921f35c294f@msapiro>
References: <87fybw2zdd.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<PC1760200612031902540921f35c294f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061204032545.GC16697@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Mark Sapiro (msapiro at value.net):
> Note that there is such a script already in the distribution. It is
> bin/cleanarch  which as Stephen notes, may or may not work for you.

Oooooh.  I wish I'd discovered this about 8 hours ago.

Oh well, file it away for next time.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
When I hear the history of some of the more ugly European cities, with
"... destroyed in 14xx, burnt in 16xx ..." I get the urge to ask why
they keep rebuilding it and if they can't get the hint.
              -- Lieven Marchand

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec  4 04:35:17 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 19:35:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] failed to send out message when posting to a
	list
In-Reply-To: <4573746A.30905@ncmir.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612031935170546be312a73@msapiro>

Jana Nguyen wrote:
>
>I'm using postfix with mailman and I can't post mail to the mailing list.
>I can subscribe to a list, both I and the owner of the mailing list get 
>an email notifications.  But I do not receive email when
>posting to any of the mailing list that I created.


Do you receive other people's posts? Do others receive yours?


>I've checked the duplication email option on the admin interface are 
>unchecked.


This is not what controls this. The option that controls receiving your
own posts is "not metoo".


>Error message in /var/log/maillog:
>
>
>Dec  3 16:44:25 portal spamd[2960]: prefork: child states: II
>Dec  3 16:44:25 portal postfix/pipe[6362]: 95A5629A96: 
>to=<jnguyen at ncmir.ucsd.edu>, relay=spamfilter, delay=1, status=sent (dummy)
>Dec  3 16:44:25 portal postfix/qmgr[14320]: 95A5629A96: removed
>Dec  3 16:44:25 portal postfix/pickup[14319]: 8C9A929B4D: uid=520 
>from=<portal-bounces at nbirn.net>
>Dec  3 16:44:25 portal postfix/cleanup[6361]: 8C9A929B4D: 
>message-id=<mailman.0.1165193063.6124.portal at nbirn.net>
>Dec  3 16:44:25 portal postfix/qmgr[14320]: 8C9A929B4D: 
>from=<portal-bounces at nbirn.net>, size=2194, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>Dec  3 16:44:25 portal postfix/smtp[6370]: 8C9A929B4D: 
>to=<jnguyen at ncmir.ucsd.edu>, relay=bigiron.ucsd.edu[132.239.131.209], 
>delay=0, status=sent (250 ok:  Message 1826098 accepted)
>Dec  3 16:44:25 portal postfix/qmgr[14320]: 8C9A929B4D: removed


I don't see an error. I see a message sent to a spam filter and removed
from the queue and then a message relayed to bigiron.ucsd.edu and then
removed from the queue


>I used to were able to post to list, but after I changed the 
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST to not to be the same as my DEFAULT_URL_HOST, it 
>stopped working.

If you didn't run fix_url on the list, changing DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST
should do nothing. If you did run fix_url or otherwise change the
list's host_name attribute, this will affect the domain of the
envelope sender of posts which may affect acceptance by the MTA, but I
don't see this in the log.


>The entry in my /usr/local/mailman/Mailman is:


I assume you mean /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py


>MTA = 'Postfix'
>
>SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
>SMTPPORT = 25
>POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postalias'
>POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postmap'
>
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'nbirn.net'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'portal.nbirn.net'
>
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)


Seems OK.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dave at boost-consulting.com  Mon Dec  4 04:40:52 2006
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 22:40:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Mailman and Sendmail
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061203191001054608653343@msapiro> (Mark Sapiro's message
	of "Sun\, 3 Dec 2006 19\:10\:01 -0800")
References: <PC176020061203191001054608653343@msapiro>
Message-ID: <877ix88h17.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> writes:

> David Abrahams wrote:
>>
>>Uh-huh.  But now I have all the products mentioned in step 5 except
>>for mailman.aliases.db.  I guess 2 out of 3 ain't bad, but... any
>>clues?
>
>
> If /etc/mailman.aliases is properly referenced in the sendmail
> configuration, the /usr/bin/newaliases command in the
> /usr/bin/newaliases script should create/update the
> /etc/mailman.aliases.db file.
>
> Did you remember "Run a make (or otherwise refresh sendmail.cf and then
> restart sendmail" from step 3?

Yep.  I was editing "boost.mc" so in /etc/mail I did

  make boost.cf
  cp boost.cf sendmail.cf
  make restart

Another problem I'm been having is the inability to get past the end
of 

  http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node40.html

i.e. 

     review the site list's configuration via the admin pages.
     You should also subscribe yourself to the site list. 


<20 minutes of flailing later>...oooh, http://my-domain/mailman/admin
works

I guess it would be good if the instructions would tell me how to find
that :)

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com

From dave at boost-consulting.com  Mon Dec  4 05:05:11 2006
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2006 23:05:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Mailman and Sendmail
In-Reply-To: <20061203200723.q8q876cp6lu88cs8@mailman.netaxis.ca> (Pierre
	Forget's message of "Sun\, 03 Dec 2006 20\:07\:23 -0500")
References: <87k6199bk7.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>
	<20061203200723.q8q876cp6lu88cs8@mailman.netaxis.ca>
Message-ID: <87zma45mrs.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>

Pierre Forget <tech14 at netaxis.ca> writes:

> Hi,
>
> If it can help. I had problems installing and integrating with sendmail.
>
> Culprit was that it needs to know under which group sendmail is
> used. So, look carefully in your sendmail.cf (DefaultUser) and make
> sure you compile mailman with the switch to include this group for :
>
> --with-cgi-gid=group

Pardon me, but isn't the GID with which to execute cgi scripts?  Or
are you saying that mailman's CGI scripts need to execute with the
same GID as sendmail?  If so, why?

> and make an install user 

An install user?

> that is part of the mailman group to install
> the mailman software.

I installed mailman using a FreeBSD port, which means I don't get to
do most of those things manually; the port takes care of all that and
I don't get control between configure and make install.


-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com

From dave at boost-consulting.com  Mon Dec  4 06:03:38 2006
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2006 00:03:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Mailman and Sendmail
In-Reply-To: <877ix88h17.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com> (David Abrahams's
	message of "Sun\, 03 Dec 2006 22\:40\:52 -0500")
References: <PC176020061203191001054608653343@msapiro>
	<877ix88h17.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>
Message-ID: <87r6vg45hx.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>

David Abrahams <dave at boost-consulting.com> writes:

> Yep.  I was editing "boost.mc" so in /etc/mail I did
>
>   make boost.cf
>   cp boost.cf sendmail.cf
>   make restart

Problem solved: I was pointing sendmail at the wrong path for the
mailman.aliases file.  

[/etc/aliases was just a symlink to
/etc/mail/aliases, so I was pointing sendmail at
/etc/mail/mailman.aliases, but of course that was wrong.  I needed to
be specifying /etc/mailman.aliases.]

Anyway, thanks very much; it all seems to be working now.

Say, if I really want to distinguish lists.mydomain.com from
mydomain.com, is there any reason I can't still set up a virtual mail
host and tack an automated updating of the virtusers file as shown in
http://www.ddj.com/dept/architect/184413752?pgno=4 onto
/usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases ?

Thanks again,

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec  4 06:20:21 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 21:20:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Mailman Installation - Can't Send Email
	toaNewList(reformatted)
In-Reply-To: <4573A8BC.6000907@Independent401kAdvisors.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061203212021050065c06589@msapiro>

Jeff Salisbury wrote:
>>   
>Mark,  Ok, I added these lines at the end of the mm_cfg.py file:
>
>    DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.domain1.net'
>    DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mail.domain1.net'
>    VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
>    add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>    add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, 'mail.domain2.net')


This doesn't work. You can't have two different Mailman virtual domains
with the same web domain (url_host). The

    add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, 'mail.domain2.net')

entry simply replaces the

    add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

entry in VIRTUAL_HOSTS because they have the same url_host which is the
key in the dictionary entry so you wind up with with only the second
entry.

What this means is all lists created from the www.domain1.net domain,
at least via web create will wind up with mail.domain2.net as their
host_name. You may be able to work around this by changing (or at
least verifying) the host_name attribute on the list's admin General
Options page, but if you really have lists in domain1 and domain2, why
do you want to access the web interface via domain1 for all lists? Or
do you really want the second add_virtualhost to be

    add_virtualhost('www.domain2.net', 'mail.domain2.net')


>Then, I ran the command below that refresh the mailman system:
>
>    bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url --
>
>Then, I verified that the file virtual-mailman had been populated.  
>Looks good so far...


OK, but are you sure the lists are in the correct domains in
virtual_mailman. The above withlist command will put all lists in the
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST (mail.domain1.net) domain.


>Now, how do I restart or "refresh" the Postfix system?


If you ran bin/genaliases, that process should run the
POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD (default '/usr/sbin/postalias') and POSTFIX_MAP_CMD
(default '/usr/sbin/postmap') commands which update aliases.db and
virtual-mailman.db which should be all you need.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec  4 06:41:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 21:41:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Mailman and Sendmail
In-Reply-To: <87r6vg45hx.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061203214143079677b88ae7@msapiro>

David Abrahams wrote:
>
>Say, if I really want to distinguish lists.mydomain.com from
>mydomain.com, is there any reason I can't still set up a virtual mail
>host and tack an automated updating of the virtusers file as shown in
>http://www.ddj.com/dept/architect/184413752?pgno=4 onto
>/usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases ?


I think you'd be OK (I'm not particularly knowledgeable about sendmail
virtual domains). One word of caution; the article you refer to is
written for Mailman 2.0.x, not 2.1.x.

Note that if you were to put

POSTFIX_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.mydomain.com'] in mm_cfg.py, the
genaliases/list create/list delete process will maintain
data/virtual-mailman in the same manner as data/aliases and run
POSTFIX_MAP_CMD to update the virtual maps. POSTFIX_MAP_CMD could be
set up analogously to POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec  4 06:49:23 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 21:49:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Mailman and Sendmail
In-Reply-To: <87zma45mrs.fsf@pereiro.luannocracy.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061203214923039077b8893d@msapiro>

David Abrahams wrote:
>
>Pardon me, but isn't the GID with which to execute cgi scripts?  Or
>are you saying that mailman's CGI scripts need to execute with the
>same GID as sendmail?  If so, why?


Mailman's CGI scripts must run as group 'mailman' (or whatever is
specified as the mailman group). Therefore, the wrappers are in the
mailman group and SETGID.

For security reasons (to prevent anyone from running a wrapper), the
wrappers check to be sure the original group of the caller was the
expected group. It's this expected GID that is set via the
--with-cgi-gid option to configure, but as you note, you are
installing a packaged Mailman (a FreeBSD port) so this really doesn't
apply, at least if the packager set it up right.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From d.tkaczyk at uw.edu.pl  Mon Dec  4 09:54:15 2006
From: d.tkaczyk at uw.edu.pl (Dominika Tkaczyk)
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2006 09:54:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation action
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612011251160718292f313e@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200612011251160718292f313e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <courier.4573E237.000028FD@hermes4.poczta.uw.edu.pl>

Hello, 

Mark Sapiro napisa?(a): 

> Patrick Bogen wrote: 
> 
>>Unfortunately, it looks like, since Moderate.py comes before anything
>>else, there's no really 'correct' way to do this.
>  
> 
> It doesn't come before SpamDetect which processes header_filter_rules,
> so your suggestion below won't work.

Thank you both for your answers. 

What if I did as you suggested first, but instead of one filter rule that 
matches everything, there would be one filter rule for each address I want 
held (I assume that there won't be more than 4-5 such subscribers), and such 
a rule would match a From: header with that address, and of course action 
would be Hold?
Does it make any sense or you think it would be better to use the energy to 
write a patch to the source code? 

>>One option that ought to work, however, would be the following:
>>Moderate all users that you want rejected, and set
>>member_moderation_action to reject. Unmoderate the users you want
>>held. Add a header filter rule that matches on everything (something
>>like a single caret ('^') should suffice), and is set to Hold. I
>>haven't tested this, and I don't know if it will work or not.
> 

Dominika 



From mcjathan1 at xmission.com  Mon Dec  4 12:52:46 2006
From: mcjathan1 at xmission.com (mcjathan)
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2006 04:52:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Mailman Installation - Can't Send Email
	toaNewList(reformatted)
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200611270803480843993baa1b@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200611270803480843993baa1b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45740C0E.4020107@xmission.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> So we're back to the original question. Please go back to
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-November/054347.html>
> and try to understand what I wrote there. As I said there, "The fact
> that you have nothing in virtual-mailman after running bin/genaliases
> and/or creating lists indicates you have no lists whose host_name
> attribute is in the POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS list".
>
> Since POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS is apparently correct, the problem
> is with the lists. This is because the various DEFAULT_*_HOST settings
> and add_virtualhost directives are not correct in mm_cfg.py or weren't
> when the lists were created. The post referenced above says more about
> this.
>   

Mark,  Ok, I added these lines at the end of the mm_cfg.py file:

    DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.domain1.net'
    DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mail.domain1.net'
    VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
    add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
    add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, 'mail.domain2.net')

Then, I ran the command below that refresh the mailman system:

    bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url --

Then, I verified that the file virtual-mailman had been populated.
Looks good so far...

Now, how do I restart or "refresh" the Postfix system?

Regards,  Jeff




From kencheney at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  4 15:24:04 2006
From: kencheney at yahoo.com (Ken Cheney)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 06:24:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listname-leave@domain.com isnt working
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061201121110035993503251@msapiro>
Message-ID: <496969.22026.qm@web53212.mail.yahoo.com>

there are log entries in maillog that say 
  Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/smtpd[2573]: connect from listserv.mydomain.com[127.0.0.1]
  Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/smtpd[2573]: 0C3CA2184C3: client=listserv.mydomain.com[127.0.0.1]
  Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/cleanup[2576]: 0C3CA2184C3: message-id=<mailman.2.1165241703.2374.mailman at listserv.mydomain.com>
  Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/qmgr[2438]: 0C3CA2184C3: from=<mailman-bounces at listserv.mydomain.com>, size=3775, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
  Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/smtpd[2573]: disconnect from listserv.mydomain.com[127.0.0.1]
  Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/smtp[2580]: 0C3CA2184C3: to=<kcheney at mydomain.com>, relay=mydomain.com[10.180.50.2], delay=0, status=bounced (host mydomain.com[10.180.50.2] said: 550 5.7.1 Unable to relay for kcheney at mydomain.com (in reply to RCPT TO command))
  Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/cleanup[2576]: 34EAD2184EA: message-id=<20061204141507.34EAD2184EA at listserv.mydomain.com>
  Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/qmgr[2438]: 34EAD2184EA: from=<>, size=5858, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
  Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/qmgr[2438]: 0C3CA2184C3: removed
  Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/local[2577]: 34EAD2184EA: to=<mailman-bounces at listserv.mydomain.com>, relay=local, delay=0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman)
  Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/qmgr[2438]: 34EAD2184EA: removed
     
  If that part where is says "removed" means that they are off the list - they aren't.
   
  This is the vette log says:

  
Dec 04 08:25:03 2006 (2762) -request/hold autoresponse discarded for: root at listserv.mydomain.com
  Dec 04 08:25:03 2006 (2762) Mailman post from root at listserv.mydomain.com held, message-id=<200612041325.kB4DP2hP003246 at listserv.mydomain.com>: Post by non-member to a members-only list
  Dec 04 08:30:03 2006 (2762) -request/hold autoresponse discarded for: root at listserv.mydomain.com
  Dec 04 08:30:03 2006 (2762) Mailman post from root at listserv.mydomain.com held, message-id=<200612041330.kB4DU1RE003301 at listserv.mydomain.com>: Post by non-member to a members-only list
  Dec 04 08:35:03 2006 (2762) -request/hold autoresponse discarded for: root at listserv.mydomain.com
  Dec 04 08:35:03 2006 (2762) Mailman post from root at listserv.mydomain.com held, message-id=<200612041335.kB4DZ2Xg003356 at listserv.mydomain.com>: Post by non-member to a members-only list
  Dec 04 08:40:03 2006 (2762) -request/hold autoresponse discarded for: root at listserv.mydomain.com
  Dec 04 08:40:03 2006 (2762) Mailman post from root at listserv.mydomain.com held, message-id=<200612041340.kB4De1f7003547 at listserv.mydomain.com>: Post by non-member to a members-only list
  Dec 04 08:45:04 2006 (2762) -request/hold autoresponse discarded for: root at listserv.mydomain.com
  Dec 04 08:45:04 2006 (2762) Mailman post from root at listserv.mydomain.com held, message-id=<200612041345.kB4Dj2dr003601 at listserv.mydomain.com>: Post by non-member to a members-only list
  Dec 04 08:50:03 2006 (2762) -request/hold autoresponse discarded for: root at listserv.mydomain.com
  Dec 04 08:50:03 2006 (2762) Mailman post from root at listserv.mydomain.com held, message-id=<200612041350.kB4Do1dT003656 at listserv.mydomain.com>: Post by non-member to a members-only list
  Dec 04 08:55:03 2006 (2762) -request/hold autoresponse discarded for: root at listserv.mydomain.com
  Dec 04 08:55:03 2006 (2762) Mailman post from root at listserv.mydomain.com held, message-id=<200612041355.kB4Dt2Vp003876 at listserv.mydomain.com>: Post by non-member to a members-only list
  Dec 04 09:00:04 2006 (2762) -request/hold autoresponse discarded for: root at listserv.mydomain.com
  Dec 04 09:00:04 2006 (2762) Mailman post from root at listserv.mydomain.com held, message-id=<200612041400.kB4E02SG003940 at listserv.mydomain.com>: Post by non-member to a members-only list
  Dec 04 09:00:05 2006 (2762) -request/hold autoresponse discarded for: root at listserv.mydomain.com
  Dec 04 09:00:05 2006 (2762) Mailman post from root at listserv.mydomain.com held, message-id=<200612041400.kB4E02Zf003939 at listserv.mydomain.com>: Post by non-member to a members-only list
  Dec 04 09:05:05 2006 (2374) -request/hold autoresponse discarded for: root at listserv.mydomain.com
  Dec 04 09:05:05 2006 (2374) Mailman post from root at listserv.mydomain.com held, message-id=<200612041405.kB4E53rJ002457 at listserv.mydomain.com>: Post by non-member to a members-only list
  Dec 04 09:10:03 2006 (2374) -request/hold autoresponse discarded for: root at listserv.mydomain.com
  Dec 04 09:10:03 2006 (2374) Mailman post from root at listserv.mydomain.com held, message-id=<200612041410.kB4EA2x4002513 at listserv.mydomain.com>: Post by non-member to a members-only list
  Dec 04 09:15:03 2006 (2374) -request/hold autoresponse discarded for: root at listserv.mydomain.com
  Dec 04 09:15:03 2006 (2374) Mailman post from root at listserv.mydomain.com held, message-id=<200612041415.kB4EF2CP002572 at listserv.mydomain.com>: Post by non-member to a members-only list
  Dec 04 09:20:04 2006 (2374) -request/hold autoresponse discarded for: root at listserv.mydomain.com
  Dec 04 09:20:04 2006 (2374) Mailman post from root at listserv.mydomain.com held, message-id=<200612041420.kB4EK2vd002654 at listserv.mydomain.com>: Post by non-member to a members-only list
   
  I am very confused.  Could the fact that it wont relay to my local domain be the problem?
   
  ken

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
  Ken Cheney wrote:
>
>Given that I am very new to Mailman/Postfix/Linux... where would I find the MTA logs?


Maybe /var/log/maillog; maybe somewhere else.


>how would I tell if the message made it to mailman.


There will be a maillog entry indicating the message was delivered via
a pipe to the wrapper as in "|path/to/mail/mailman leave listname" in
the case of mail to listname-leave.


>Come to think of it I have seen in logs where it say kencheney at Yahoo.com has been removed from the list. Yet my email address is still on the list.


Did you subsequently resubscribe? Were you removed from one list and
still on another? Are you confusing the list owner with list members?

Mailman's subscribe log should have all the subscribe and unsubscribe
activity.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan



 
---------------------------------
Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

From frank at compwiz.ca  Mon Dec  4 16:55:34 2006
From: frank at compwiz.ca (Frank Baillie)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 10:55:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change entire user list
Message-ID: <012201c717bc$a260eca0$0c00a8c0@screamer>

Hi;
 
I supervise a Mailman list for a club of RVers which has about 550 members.
 
Once a month I get a new roster to put up on the site, but I don't get
specific changes to email addresses, new members or deleted members.
 
Is there a simple way to unsubscribe the entire current list and mass
subscribe the new list?
 
Thank you.
 
Frank Baillie

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Mon Dec  4 16:59:51 2006
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 16:59:51 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change entire user list
In-Reply-To: <012201c717bc$a260eca0$0c00a8c0@screamer>
References: <012201c717bc$a260eca0$0c00a8c0@screamer>
Message-ID: <20061204155951.GB9998@charite.de>

* Frank Baillie <frank at compwiz.ca>:
> Hi;
>  
> I supervise a Mailman list for a club of RVers which has about 550 members.
>  
> Once a month I get a new roster to put up on the site, but I don't get
> specific changes to email addresses, new members or deleted members.
>  
> Is there a simple way to unsubscribe the entire current list and mass
> subscribe the new list?

I added a patch which lets you do exactly that.
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=300103&group_id=103&func=browse
topmost line
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1605292&group_id=103&atid=300103

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                    send no mail to plonk at charite.de

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Dec  4 17:04:08 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 10:04:08 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listname-leave@domain.com isnt working
In-Reply-To: <496969.22026.qm@web53212.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <PC176020061201121110035993503251@msapiro>
	<496969.22026.qm@web53212.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00612040804o57577e71pfd33c648e41acf08@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/4/06, Ken Cheney <kencheney at yahoo.com> wrote:
> there are log entries in maillog that say
>   Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/smtpd[2573]: connect from
>   listserv.mydomain.com[127.0.0.1]
>   Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/smtpd[2573]: 0C3CA2184C3:
>   client=listserv.mydomain.com[127.0.0.1]
>   Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/cleanup[2576]: 0C3CA2184C3:
>   message-id=<mailman.2.1165241703.2374.mailman at listserv.mydomain.com>
>   Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/qmgr[2438]: 0C3CA2184C3:
>   from=<mailman-bounces at listserv.mydomain.com>, size=3775, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>   Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/smtpd[2573]: disconnect from
>   listserv.mydomain.com[127.0.0.1]
Something connected from the local computer and sent a message.

>   Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/smtp[2580]: 0C3CA2184C3:
>   to=<kcheney at mydomain.com>, relay=mydomain.com[10.180.50.2], delay=0,
>   status=bounced (host mydomain.com[10.180.50.2] said: 550 5.7.1 Unable to relay for
>   kcheney at mydomain.com (in reply to RCPT TO command))
The message was to kcheney at mydomain.com. The server attempted to
deliver this by connecting to mydomain.com (IP 10.180.50.2), which
refused to relay to the address kcheney at mydomain.com

>   Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/cleanup[2576]: 34EAD2184EA:
>   message-id=<20061204141507.34EAD2184EA at listserv.mydomain.com>
>   Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/qmgr[2438]: 34EAD2184EA: from=<>, size=5858,
>   nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>   Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/qmgr[2438]: 0C3CA2184C3: removed
The local SMTP server generated a bounce notification and removed the
original message from its queue.

>   Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/local[2577]: 34EAD2184EA:
>   to=<mailman-bounces at listserv.mydomain.com>, relay=local, delay=0, status=sent
>   (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman)
>   Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/qmgr[2438]: 34EAD2184EA: removed
The bounce notification was delivered to mailman's bounce handler, and
the bounce notification was removed from postfix's queue.

>   If that part where is says "removed" means that they are off the list - they aren't.
The 'removed' is postfix removing messages from its queue, which is
completely normal and correct.

>   This is the vette log says:
>
>
> Dec 04 08:25:03 2006 (2762) -request/hold autoresponse discarded for:
> root at listserv.mydomain.com
>   Dec 04 08:25:03 2006 (2762) Mailman post from root at listserv.mydomain.com held,
>  message-id=<200612041325.kB4DP2hP003246 at listserv.mydomain.com>: Post by
>  non-member to a members-only list
Once again, 'root at listserv.mydomain.com' isn't a member of the list.
This is probably a postfix DSN, which is sent 'from' postfix, or
something similar.

It looks like no posts are actually reaching your mailing list.

>
>   I am very confused.  Could the fact that it wont relay to my local domain be the
>   problem?
Your server doesn't seem to realize that kcheney at mydomain.com is
supposed to be delivered locally. Perhaps this is correct; however,
the smart host that it's set up to deliver through ALSO won't accept
kcheney at mydomain.com. At least one of these is incorrect. If the
mailman server is also the server where you read your mail (e.g., your
POP or IMAP server), then it needs to be configured to accept messages
for kcheney for local delivery. If your SMTP relay host is the server
where you read your mail, IT Needs to be set up to accept mail from
kcheney at mydomain.com for local delivery.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec  4 17:59:23 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 08:59:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation action
In-Reply-To: <courier.4573E237.000028FD@hermes4.poczta.uw.edu.pl>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612040859230031b7e52f56@msapiro>

Dominika Tkaczyk wrote:
>
>What if I did as you suggested first, but instead of one filter rule that
>matches everything, there would be one filter rule for each address I want 
>held (I assume that there won't be more than 4-5 such subscribers), and such 
>a rule would match a From: header with that address, and of course action 
>would be Hold?


Yes, I think that would work. You could have a separate rule for each
poster or just one rule with a separate regexp for each poster.

In fact, you could then moderate everyone and set
default_member_moderation to Yes to simplify maintenance of moderation
because the header rule would apply to first hold the message and then
when the held message is approved, it wil bypass moderation.

Note however that this wouldn't work if the header rule action was
accept because messages which are accepted by such a rule still go
through the additional checks. In this case, the posters would need to
have their moderate flags off.


>Does it make any sense or you think it would be better to use the energy to 
>write a patch to the source code? 


I think it always makes sense to use existing configuration options if
you can rather that patching the code, unless using the existing
features is just too cumbersome which I don't think is the case here.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec  4 18:09:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 09:09:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Mailman Installation - Can't Send Email
	toaNewList(reformatted)
In-Reply-To: <45740C0E.4020107@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612040909080000b7e52f28@msapiro>

mcjathan wrote:
>
>Mark,  Ok, I added these lines at the end of the mm_cfg.py file:
>
>    DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.domain1.net'
>    DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mail.domain1.net'
>    VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
>    add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>    add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, 'mail.domain2.net')
>
>Then, I ran the command below that refresh the mailman system:
>
>    bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url --
>
>Then, I verified that the file virtual-mailman had been populated.
>Looks good so far...
>
>Now, how do I restart or "refresh" the Postfix system?


It seems the above was originally posted from another address and the
original didn't reach (or hasn't yet reached) the list. Anyway, it is
answered at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-December/054773.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Mon Dec  4 18:25:57 2006
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 12:25:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HELP! My lists have lost their minds
Message-ID: <20061204172557.GA8257@allhats.xcski.com>

All the email to one of my lists is coming with the [listname] header from
another list, and all the email to that list is coming with the [listname]
header from the other.  Even when I go to
http://list.xcski.com/mailman/listinfo/partyhats I see the page I should
be seeing at
http://list.xcski.com/mailman/listinfo/techhats/
(although the techhats pages seems ok).

The partyhats archive is toast as well.

I've shut down all my lists, but how do I fix this?

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
If men are from Mars and women are from Venus, there's going to be one
big-ass fight over where to set the thermostat.
              -- Jim Rosenberg

From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Mon Dec  4 18:28:33 2006
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 11:28:33 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change entire user list
In-Reply-To: Mail from '"Frank Baillie" <frank@compwiz.ca>'
	dated: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 10:55:34 -0500
Message-ID: <200612041728.kB4HSXsh006915@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

"Frank Baillie" <frank at compwiz.ca> wrote:

>Hi;
> 
>I supervise a Mailman list for a club of RVers which has about 550 members.
> 
>Once a month I get a new roster to put up on the site, but I don't get
>specific changes to email addresses, new members or deleted members.
> 
>Is there a simple way to unsubscribe the entire current list and mass
>subscribe the new list?
> 
>Thank you.
> 
>Frank Baillie

There are two commands in the bin directory:

     remove_members --all --nouserack --noadminack $LISTNAME
     add_members -w n -r $FILE $LISTNAME

The first will remove all subscribers in $LISTNAME without any
acknowledgements to the subscribers and administrators.

The second will silently subscribe all of the e-mail addresses in
the $FILE file.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Mon Dec  4 18:30:21 2006
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 12:30:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Another hint
Message-ID: <20061204173021.GB8257@allhats.xcski.com>

I'm getting this message when I try to fix the archives:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/arch", line 187, in ?
    main()
  File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/arch", line 172, in main
    archiver = HyperArchive(mlist)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 599, in
__init__
    self.__super_init(dir, reload=1, database=db)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 289, in
__init__
    d = pickle.load(f)
cPickle.UnpicklingError: could not find MARK


-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
I've long believed that a large amount of our current technology was invented
by SF writers, and remained fiction until some geek read it and thought "I
know how to build that".  -- Andrew Dalgleish

From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Mon Dec  4 18:35:38 2006
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 11:35:38 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mbox files
In-Reply-To: Mail from 'Paul Tomblin <ptomblin@xcski.com>'
	dated: Sun, 3 Dec 2006 20:10:11 -0500
Message-ID: <200612041735.kB4HZcWU007176@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

Quoting Mark Sapiro (msapiro at value.net):
>> Paul Tomblin wrote:
>> >slowed my computer down to a crawl.  I gave up and used the mbox splitter
>> >awk program I found in the list archives and I'm now building the archives
>> >500 messages at a time.  Hope that works.
>> 
>> 
>> It should.
>> 
>> Also, you can effectively do the same thing without breaking up the
>> mbox by using the --start= and --end= options on bin/arch. See
>> 
>>  bin/arch --help

Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> replied:

>Is there any way to make arch smarter about "^From " lines?  First pass
>through the archive, I ended up with a bazillion messages in the
>archive for today, all with "No subject" because it was treating any
>line like "^From " as the start of a message.  It would be nice if it
>recognized the difference between real mbox start-of-message "^From "
>and just random lines from some list member.

I was under the impression that ANY line in an mbox file that began
with "^From " was the start of a new message.  That is why mailers
change a mail body line "^From " to "^> From ".  Is there an mbox
standard?  What you could do is write a script to process the
"corrupted" mbox file.  It would write non-"^From " lines intact, but
it would parse the "^From " lines to determine if they were the start
of new messages or just plain mail body lines.  Body lines would be
re-written with an initial ">".
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec  4 18:33:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 09:33:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listname-leave@domain.com isnt working
In-Reply-To: <496969.22026.qm@web53212.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612040933410062c4c29647@msapiro>

Ken Cheney wrote:
>
>there are log entries in maillog that say 
>  Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/smtpd[2573]: connect from listserv.mydomain.com[127.0.0.1]
>  Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/smtpd[2573]: 0C3CA2184C3: client=listserv.mydomain.com[127.0.0.1]
>  Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/cleanup[2576]: 0C3CA2184C3: message-id=<mailman.2.1165241703.2374.mailman at listserv.mydomain.com>
>  Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/qmgr[2438]: 0C3CA2184C3: from=<mailman-bounces at listserv.mydomain.com>, size=3775, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>  Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/smtpd[2573]: disconnect from listserv.mydomain.com[127.0.0.1]
>  Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/smtp[2580]: 0C3CA2184C3: to=<kcheney at mydomain.com>, relay=mydomain.com[10.180.50.2], delay=0, status=bounced (host mydomain.com[10.180.50.2] said: 550 5.7.1 Unable to relay for kcheney at mydomain.com (in reply to RCPT TO command))


The above is a message from Mailman to <kcheney at mydomain.com> that
can't be delivered because Postfix doesn't know how to route mail to
mydomain.com or it is not allowed to relay mail from 127.0.0.1 to
mydomain.com.

This is a Postfix configuration issue.


>  Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/cleanup[2576]: 34EAD2184EA: message-id=<20061204141507.34EAD2184EA at listserv.mydomain.com>
>  Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/qmgr[2438]: 34EAD2184EA: from=<>, size=5858, nrcpt=1 (queue active)


The above are an incoming message (a DSN from Postfix back to Mailman
saying the first message was undeliverable).


>  Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/qmgr[2438]: 0C3CA2184C3: removed


This is Postfix telling you the the first message (0C3CA2184C3) was
removed from Postfix's queue because Postfix was done with it. Postfix
has no knowledge of what Mailman does and you won't find anything in
the Postfix maillog that relates to any action Mailman has taken other
than mail delivery.


>  Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/local[2577]: 34EAD2184EA: to=<mailman-bounces at listserv.mydomain.com>, relay=local, delay=0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman)
>  Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/qmgr[2438]: 34EAD2184EA: removed


And these are Postfix's delivery of the DSN to the mail/mailman wrapper
for 'mailman-bounces' and the subsequent removal of the processed
message from Postfix's queue.


>  If that part where is says "removed" means that they are off the list - they aren't.


That's not what it says. The above entries presumably all come after
some message to listname-leave was received and delivered to Mailman.
These are a reply from Mailman which is undeliverable (most likely
because you aren't allowing relaying from localhost/127.0.0.1) and the
subsequent bounce being returned to Mailman.

   
>  This is the vette log says:
>
>  
>Dec 04 08:25:03 2006 (2762) -request/hold autoresponse discarded for: root at listserv.mydomain.com
>  Dec 04 08:25:03 2006 (2762) Mailman post from root at listserv.mydomain.com held, message-id=<200612041325.kB4DP2hP003246 at listserv.mydomain.com>: Post by non-member to a members-only list
<and several more snipped>
>   
>  I am very confused.  Could the fact that it wont relay to my local domain be the problem?


The first message above is saying that Mailman is trying to send an
autoresponse to a message received at the listname-request (or -join,
-leave or -(un)subscribe) address, but the user has already received
the daily limit of such messages.

The second is a held post. What happens to these? Do you see them in
the admindb interface for the list?

Messages clearly reach Mailman. The problem is that the messages that
mailman sends can't be relayed. You have to configure Postfix to relay
from localhost/127.0.0.1 to anywhere. Then you will see Mailman's
responses and more will become clear.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec  4 18:56:14 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 09:56:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change entire user list
In-Reply-To: <200612041728.kB4HSXsh006915@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC17602006120409561406093acf30cf@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:
>
>There are two commands in the bin directory:
>
>     remove_members --all --nouserack --noadminack $LISTNAME
>     add_members -w n -r $FILE $LISTNAME
>
>The first will remove all subscribers in $LISTNAME without any
>acknowledgements to the subscribers and administrators.
>
>The second will silently subscribe all of the e-mail addresses in
>the $FILE file.


And there is the sync_members command which synchronizes the list
membership with the addresses in an input file which is the one step
way to do what is wanted, but these all require command line access.
Ralf's patch mentioned in another reply allows doing sync_members from
the web interface, but of course it requires more than command line
access to install the patch.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec  4 19:05:03 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 10:05:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HELP! My lists have lost their minds
In-Reply-To: <20061204172557.GA8257@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006120410050308596644eb7e@msapiro>

Paul Tomblin wrote:

>All the email to one of my lists is coming with the [listname] header from
>another list, and all the email to that list is coming with the [listname]
>header from the other.  Even when I go to
>http://list.xcski.com/mailman/listinfo/partyhats I see the page I should
>be seeing at
>http://list.xcski.com/mailman/listinfo/techhats/
>(although the techhats pages seems ok).
>
>The partyhats archive is toast as well.


It seems that somehow, the lists/techhats/config.pck file may have
gotten copied/restored to lists/partyhats/config.pck. a similar thing
may have happened with archives/private/techhats/ <->
archives/private/partyhats/.


>I've shut down all my lists, but how do I fix this?


I hope you have a good backup :-(

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Mon Dec  4 19:37:01 2006
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 19:37:01 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change entire user list
In-Reply-To: <200612041728.kB4HSXsh006915@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
References: <200612041728.kB4HSXsh006915@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <20061204183700.GC6794@charite.de>

* Barry Finkel <b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov>:
> There are two commands in the bin directory:
> 
>      remove_members --all --nouserack --noadminack $LISTNAME
>      add_members -w n -r $FILE $LISTNAME
> 
> The first will remove all subscribers in $LISTNAME without any
> acknowledgements to the subscribers and administrators.
> 
> The second will silently subscribe all of the e-mail addresses in
> the $FILE file.

Why so complicated? Simply use sync_members instead.

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                    send no mail to plonk at charite.de

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Mon Dec  4 19:37:43 2006
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 19:37:43 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change entire user list
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006120409561406093acf30cf@msapiro>
References: <200612041728.kB4HSXsh006915@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
	<PC17602006120409561406093acf30cf@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061204183743.GD6794@charite.de>

* Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>:

> And there is the sync_members command which synchronizes the list
> membership with the addresses in an input file which is the one step
> way to do what is wanted, but these all require command line access.
> Ralf's patch mentioned in another reply allows doing sync_members from
> the web interface, but of course it requires more than command line
> access to install the patch.

OTOH somebody could adopt the patch (the feature request is 2 years
old now :) )

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                    send no mail to plonk at charite.de

From ptomblin at xcski.com  Mon Dec  4 19:41:55 2006
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 13:41:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HELP! My lists have lost their minds
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006120410050308596644eb7e@msapiro>
References: <20061204172557.GA8257@allhats.xcski.com>
	<PC17602006120410050308596644eb7e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061204184155.GA19488@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Mark Sapiro (msapiro at value.net):
> Paul Tomblin wrote:
> >All the email to one of my lists is coming with the [listname] header from
> >another list, and all the email to that list is coming with the [listname]
> >header from the other.  Even when I go to
> >http://list.xcski.com/mailman/listinfo/partyhats I see the page I should
> >be seeing at
> >http://list.xcski.com/mailman/listinfo/techhats/
> >(although the techhats pages seems ok).
> >
> >The partyhats archive is toast as well.
> 
> 
> It seems that somehow, the lists/techhats/config.pck file may have
> gotten copied/restored to lists/partyhats/config.pck. a similar thing
> may have happened with archives/private/techhats/ <->
> archives/private/partyhats/.

Nope, I checked that - partyhats/config.pck looks fine, as does
techhats/config.pck.

> >I've shut down all my lists, but how do I fix this?
> 
> 
> I hope you have a good backup :-(

Since it seems my backup and my current are the same, that's not going to
help much.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
"We sealed our federal pact without bloodshed and without exploitation of
the weak by the strong.  All it took was fairness, justice and some
compromises on both sides." - George-Etienne Cartier.

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec  4 19:12:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 10:12:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listname-leave@domain.com isnt working
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00612040804o57577e71pfd33c648e41acf08@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612041012010765d81c291e@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
>>   Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/smtp[2580]: 0C3CA2184C3:
>>   to=<kcheney at mydomain.com>, relay=mydomain.com[10.180.50.2], delay=0,
>>   status=bounced (host mydomain.com[10.180.50.2] said: 550 5.7.1 Unable to relay for
>>   kcheney at mydomain.com (in reply to RCPT TO command))
>The message was to kcheney at mydomain.com. The server attempted to
>deliver this by connecting to mydomain.com (IP 10.180.50.2), which
>refused to relay to the address kcheney at mydomain.com


Patrick obviously paid more attention to this error than I did.
Patrick's analysis of the relaying failure is correct.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kencheney at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  4 20:10:31 2006
From: kencheney at yahoo.com (Ken Cheney)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 11:10:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listname-leave@domain.com isnt working
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612041012010765d81c291e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061204191031.20415.qmail@web53202.mail.yahoo.com>

x.x.50.2 is one of my DNS servers it has no email funcionality at all.  I thought that postfix sent the mail.. meaning not relayed off of something else.

Ken

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote: Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
>>   Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/smtp[2580]: 0C3CA2184C3:
>>   to=, relay=mydomain.com[10.180.50.2], delay=0,
>>   status=bounced (host mydomain.com[10.180.50.2] said: 550 5.7.1 Unable to relay for
>>   kcheney at mydomain.com (in reply to RCPT TO command))
>The message was to kcheney at mydomain.com. The server attempted to
>deliver this by connecting to mydomain.com (IP 10.180.50.2), which
>refused to relay to the address kcheney at mydomain.com


Patrick obviously paid more attention to this error than I did.
Patrick's analysis of the relaying failure is correct.

-- 
Mark Sapiro        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



 
---------------------------------
Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Dec  4 20:19:30 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 13:19:30 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listname-leave@domain.com isnt working
In-Reply-To: <20061204191031.20415.qmail@web53202.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <PC1760200612041012010765d81c291e@msapiro>
	<20061204191031.20415.qmail@web53202.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00612041119j60c542f4vc9945de15d8105b3@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/4/06, Ken Cheney <kencheney at yahoo.com> wrote:
> x.x.50.2 is one of my DNS servers it has no email funcionality at all.  I
> thought that postfix sent the mail.. meaning not relayed off of something
> else.

Email works by mail servers relaying mail to each other until it gets
to a server that (believes) it can deliver it locally. There is either
something wrong with the MX records in your domain, or your Postfix
server is actually set to relay mail to the DNS, for some reason.
Check your postfix config for settings related to relaying or
smarthosts, and check your DNS config to see if all your MX records
are correct.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From cwawak at mail.med.upenn.edu  Mon Dec  4 20:28:52 2006
From: cwawak at mail.med.upenn.edu (Christopher Wawak)
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2006 14:28:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange Archives Issue
Message-ID: <457476F4.7080601@mail.med.upenn.edu>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I inherited an old Mailman installation, which I upgraded from an
unknown version to the latest version, 2.1.9.  Most of the other lists
are fine, but one particular list has issues archiving messages.
Messages to the list get shunted after being delivered, before being
archived.  I've researched this issue for months, and it's finally
driven me to bugging the list for additional places to look.  Please
note that other lists, created both before and after the upgrade,
archive just fine.

Here's some logs from the 'error' log:

Dec 04 14:07:09 2006 (4446) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 21] Is a
directory: '/var/
lib/mailman/archives/public/LISTNAME'
Dec 04 14:07:09 2006 (4446) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 133,
in _dispose
    mlist.Save()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 565, in Save
    self.CheckHTMLArchiveDir()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 236, in
CheckHTMLArchiveDir
    breaklink(pubdir)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 56, in
breaklink
    os.unlink(link)
OSError: [Errno 21] Is a directory:
'/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/LISTNAME'

Dec 04 14:07:09 2006 (4446) SHUNTING:
1165258558.144629+452aa00f48fbbba74e1259752d575731
e2085546


Here's an idea of directory structure:
[root at HOSTNAME: /var/lib/mailman/archives]# ls -la
total 24
drwxrwsr-x   3 root    mailman 4096 Nov 13 15:47 ./
drwxrwsr-x   6 root    mailman 4096 Nov  7 09:58 ../
drwxrwsr-x  29 mailman mailman 4096 Dec  4 12:32 private/
lrwxrwxrwx   1 root    mailman    7 Nov 13 15:47 public -> private/


[root at HOSTNAME: /var/lib/mailman/archives/private]# ls -la
drwxrwsr-x  29 mailman mailman 4096 Dec  4 12:32 ./
*snip*
drwxrwsr-x   6 mailman mailman 4096 Dec  4 14:06 LISTNAME/
drwxrwsr-x   2 mailman mailman 4096 Jul 13 11:16 LISTNAME.mbox/
*snip*


I'm really at the end of my rope.  I'd like to avoid deleting the list
and recreating it, but I think I may have to do that.  I figured I'd
send out one last call for help before I do that.

Thanks,

Chris
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFFdHb0zT/AXrftr4URAnn5AJ4jpWE0TheX/V89J8G97aekWTcvyACfRNlw
zpuptiMzstfe9S4H8XphBn0=
=m33q
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From kencheney at yahoo.com  Mon Dec  4 20:48:33 2006
From: kencheney at yahoo.com (Ken Cheney)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 11:48:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listname-leave@domain.com isnt working
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00612041119j60c542f4vc9945de15d8105b3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <176161.50254.qm@web53205.mail.yahoo.com>

I have internal DNS that is marginally different than external DNS.

My internal DNS points to the internal IP of my exchange server and the internal IP of my listserv.

My external DNS points to the external IPs of each.  They are correct.

should I be looking somewhere other than main.cf?



Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote: On 12/4/06, Ken Cheney  wrote:
> x.x.50.2 is one of my DNS servers it has no email funcionality at all.  I
> thought that postfix sent the mail.. meaning not relayed off of something
> else.

Email works by mail servers relaying mail to each other until it gets
to a server that (believes) it can deliver it locally. There is either
something wrong with the MX records in your domain, or your Postfix
server is actually set to relay mail to the DNS, for some reason.
Check your postfix config for settings related to relaying or
smarthosts, and check your DNS config to see if all your MX records
are correct.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen


 
---------------------------------
Any questions?  Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now.

From vernon at comp-wiz.com  Mon Dec  4 21:02:29 2006
From: vernon at comp-wiz.com (Vernon Webb)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 15:02:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman, Fedora Core, 500 Internal Server Error
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612011054540953204c086f@msapiro>
References: <20061129142802.M83354@comp-wiz.com>
	<PC1760200612011054540953204c086f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061204195649.M3376@comp-wiz.com>

I have posted a few times with no luck in getting mailman to work with Fedora Core 
using YUM. I have installed and all seems to be working something to do with suexe. 
Emails go out and using email a person can subcribe, but the web pages do not work. 
Can anyone please tell me they have successfully installed mailman on a Fedora Core 
box and if so can they please help me get mine working. I understand that is a 
permissions error having to do with suexe, but I have not clue how to make it work.

Thanks

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec  4 21:24:52 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 12:24:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange Archives Issue
In-Reply-To: <457476F4.7080601@mail.med.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612041224520765a491e711@msapiro>

Christopher Wawak wrote:
>

>Here's some logs from the 'error' log:
>
>Dec 04 14:07:09 2006 (4446) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 21] Is a
>directory: '/var/
>lib/mailman/archives/public/LISTNAME'
>Dec 04 14:07:09 2006 (4446) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 133,
>in _dispose
>    mlist.Save()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 565, in Save
>    self.CheckHTMLArchiveDir()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 236, in
>CheckHTMLArchiveDir
>    breaklink(pubdir)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 56, in
>breaklink
>    os.unlink(link)
>OSError: [Errno 21] Is a directory:
>'/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/LISTNAME'
>
>Dec 04 14:07:09 2006 (4446) SHUNTING:
>1165258558.144629+452aa00f48fbbba74e1259752d575731
>e2085546
>
>
>Here's an idea of directory structure:
>[root at HOSTNAME: /var/lib/mailman/archives]# ls -la
>total 24
>drwxrwsr-x   3 root    mailman 4096 Nov 13 15:47 ./
>drwxrwsr-x   6 root    mailman 4096 Nov  7 09:58 ../
>drwxrwsr-x  29 mailman mailman 4096 Dec  4 12:32 private/
>lrwxrwxrwx   1 root    mailman    7 Nov 13 15:47 public -> private/

The above is your problem.

archives/public should be a directory, not a symlink. The symlinks
should be for lists with public archives only and should be like

archives/public/listname -> archives/private/listname and maybe
archives/public/listname.mbox -> archives/private/listname.mbox if the
global .mbox is also public.

All you need to do is rm the archives/public symlink and create the
archives/public directory with group mailman and permissions
drwxrwsr-x.

Also, the archives/private directory should nt be world readable. Its
permissions should be drwxrws--x.

You don't need to create any symlinks in the archives/public directory.
Mailman will create these as required for lists with public archives
as the lists are accessed.

After fixing the above, you can run bin/unshunt to reprocess the
shunted messages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec  4 21:41:34 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 12:41:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman, Fedora Core, 500 Internal Server Error
In-Reply-To: <20061204195649.M3376@comp-wiz.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006120412413407347c52f160@msapiro>

Vernon Webb wrote:

>I have posted a few times with no luck in getting mailman to work with Fedora Core 
>using YUM. I have installed and all seems to be working something to do with suexe. 
>Emails go out and using email a person can subcribe, but the web pages do not work. 
>Can anyone please tell me they have successfully installed mailman on a Fedora Core 
>box and if so can they please help me get mine working. I understand that is a 
>permissions error having to do with suexe, but I have not clue how to make it work.


The Apache restrictions on the suEXEC module conflict with Mailman's
security model. If possible, don't use suEXEC for the Mailman CGIs.

If you have to use suEXEC, I think you will have to make the suEXEC
user and group the same as the owner and group of the wrappers (in
$prefix/cgi-bin) and possibly remove the SETGID bit from the wrappers.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>
and <http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/suexec.html> for further detail.

Note that I have no experience with suEXEC so I may be wrong about
this, but that's how it looks to me.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec  4 22:10:04 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 13:10:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman, Fedora Core, 500 Internal Server Error
In-Reply-To: <20061204195649.M3376@comp-wiz.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006120413100409537c52f21d@msapiro>

Vernon Webb wrote:
>I understand that is a 
>permissions error having to do with suexe, but I have not clue how to make it work.


You might find the results of
<http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Amail.python.org++inurl%3Amailman++suexec>
(starting with
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/1999-November/002656.html>)
helpful.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Mon Dec  4 22:10:30 2006
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 10:10:30 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some lists no longer archiving
Message-ID: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A37010CD895@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Hi,

I have a list that stopped archiving in October....other lists are Ok...

Where would I start looking for a reason why?

regards

Steven Jones
Senior  Linux/Unix/San System Administrator
APG -Technology Integration Team
Victoria University of Wellington
Phone: +64 4 463 6272 Mobile: +64 27 563 6272 

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec  4 22:18:58 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 13:18:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change entire user list
In-Reply-To: <20061204183743.GD6794@charite.de>
Message-ID: <PC17602006120413185803125a5ddc72@msapiro>

Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
>
>OTOH somebody could adopt the patch (the feature request is 2 years
>old now :) )


Message received. :-)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec  4 22:25:14 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 13:25:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HELP! My lists have lost their minds
In-Reply-To: <20061204184155.GA19488@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006120413251407960aae39aa@msapiro>

Paul Tomblin wrote:
>
>Nope, I checked that - partyhats/config.pck looks fine, as does
>techhats/config.pck.
>
>> >I've shut down all my lists, but how do I fix this?


Did you either 'restart' or 'stop' and 'start' mailman before 'shutting
down'?

Actually, I don't see how it is possible that the web admin interface
would show data different from the config.pck unless the underlying
file system is somehow broken.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Mon Dec  4 22:34:01 2006
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 16:34:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HELP! My lists have lost their minds
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006120413251407960aae39aa@msapiro>
References: <20061204184155.GA19488@allhats.xcski.com>
	<PC17602006120413251407960aae39aa@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061204213401.GA11129@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Mark Sapiro (msapiro at value.net):
> Paul Tomblin wrote:
> >
> >Nope, I checked that - partyhats/config.pck looks fine, as does
> >techhats/config.pck.
> >
> >> >I've shut down all my lists, but how do I fix this?
> 
> 
> Did you either 'restart' or 'stop' and 'start' mailman before 'shutting
> down'?

/etc/init.d/mailman stop

> 
> Actually, I don't see how it is possible that the web admin interface
> would show data different from the config.pck unless the underlying
> file system is somehow broken.

The config.db was fine, but the config.pck *was* corrupted.  Or rather, it
appeared to be a copy of another lists, since doing a "list_members" on
both lists returned the same list.

Very odd.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
I did volunteer EMS as recovery from sysadmining, then
I did sysadmining to recover from volunteer EMS.
              -- random

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec  4 22:51:58 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 13:51:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HELP! My lists have lost their minds
In-Reply-To: <20061204213401.GA11129@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612041351580031c5f5c999@msapiro>

Paul Tomblin wrote:
>
>The config.db was fine, but the config.pck *was* corrupted.  Or rather, it
>appeared to be a copy of another lists, since doing a "list_members" on
>both lists returned the same list.


The config.db is left over from Mailman 2.0.x and is probably VERY out
of date and should probably just be discarded along with
config.db.last.

And yes, your symptom seemed to be the result of a config.pck having
been replaced somehow with that of another list. I don't know how that
could have happened, but at this point you need to find the most
recent backup of a good config.pck.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Mon Dec  4 23:01:46 2006
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 17:01:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HELP! My lists have lost their minds
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612041351580031c5f5c999@msapiro>
References: <20061204213401.GA11129@allhats.xcski.com>
	<PC1760200612041351580031c5f5c999@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061204220146.GB14508@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Mark Sapiro (msapiro at value.net):
> Paul Tomblin wrote:
> >The config.db was fine, but the config.pck *was* corrupted.  Or rather, it
> >appeared to be a copy of another lists, since doing a "list_members" on
> >both lists returned the same list.
> 
> And yes, your symptom seemed to be the result of a config.pck having
> been replaced somehow with that of another list. I don't know how that
> could have happened, but at this point you need to find the most
> recent backup of a good config.pck.

Yeah, I found one from a few weeks ago.  A few weeks ago I started backing
up to a new external USB disk, and on Sunday that disk crashed so I have
no recent backups.

Yesterday when I was rebuilding the archives for this machine, it got
extremely low on memory, and I guess that did something.  This is my first
experiment with Xen and LVM, and so far I'm not impressed.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
[Y]ou should write for the comprehension of the next programmer who
looks at your code, keep it clean and sensible, and *not* play
any obscure Jedi mind-tricks.             -- Anthony de Boer

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec  4 23:07:48 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 14:07:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some lists no longer archiving
In-Reply-To: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A37010CD895@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612041407480359583685f7@msapiro>

Steven Jones wrote:
>
>I have a list that stopped archiving in October....other lists are Ok...
>
>Where would I start looking for a reason why?


Assuming admin->Archiving Options->archive is still set to Yes, look in
Mailman's 'error' log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From robertj at linux4free.com  Mon Dec  4 22:25:03 2006
From: robertj at linux4free.com (Rob Jackson)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 14:25:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VERP and AOL feedback
Message-ID: <200612042124.kB4LOv8b025243@resources.rootsweb.com>

I have read a couple threads on this, but none have really been able to help
me.
 
I need to get the AOL feedback to work, but I need more header information.
VERP works great if it wasn't for one problem.  We have a HUGE customer
base, and this changes header information that the customer sees.
 
Is there anyway I could add header like X-Member.  This way it does not
interfere with what they see, or use for filtering.  I have added custom
headers already to our mailings, but I am not sure how I would go about
getting the actual e-mail address of the customer in there.
 
Thanks
-Rob
 

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec  5 00:30:45 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 15:30:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VERP and AOL feedback
In-Reply-To: <200612042124.kB4LOv8b025243@resources.rootsweb.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612041530450703ebdae4ec@msapiro>

Rob Jackson wrote:
> 
>Is there anyway I could add header like X-Member.  This way it does not
>interfere with what they see, or use for filtering.  I have added custom
>headers already to our mailings, but I am not sure how I would go about
>getting the actual e-mail address of the customer in there.


I'm sure there are multiple ways to do this, but here's what I suggest.

Set

OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes

in mm_cfg.py. Then set the list's Non-digest options->personalize to
Yes.

Also, find the code

        try:
            d['user_delivered_to'] = mlist.getMemberCPAddress(member)
            # BAW: Hmm, should we allow this?
            d['user_password'] = mlist.getMemberPassword(member)
            d['user_language'] = mlist.getMemberLanguage(member)

in the process() function in Mailman/Handlers/Decorate.py and add the
line

            msg['X-Member-Address'] = d['user_delivered_to']

to make it

        try:
            d['user_delivered_to'] = mlist.getMemberCPAddress(member)
            msg['X-Member-Address'] = d['user_delivered_to']
            # BAW: Hmm, should we allow this?
            d['user_password'] = mlist.getMemberPassword(member)
            d['user_language'] = mlist.getMemberLanguage(member)

This will only work for messages, not for digests.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec  5 01:10:22 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 16:10:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listname-leave@domain.com isnt working
In-Reply-To: <176161.50254.qm@web53205.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612041610220796d5812572@msapiro>

Ken Cheney wrote:
>
>should I be looking somewhere other than main.cf?


If you mean Postfix's main.cf, that may be it or it could be in your MX
records or ?


>Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote: On 12/4/06, Ken Cheney  wrote:
>> x.x.50.2 is one of my DNS servers it has no email funcionality at all.


Well, accordilng to the maillog entry you quoted earlier

>   Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/smtp[2580]: 0C3CA2184C3:
>   to=<kcheney at mydomain.com>, relay=mydomain.com[10.180.50.2], delay=0,
>   status=bounced (host mydomain.com[10.180.50.2] said: 550 5.7.1 Unable to relay for
>   kcheney at mydomain.com (in reply to RCPT TO command))

Postfix on the mailman machine connected to port 25 [10.180.50.2] in
order to deliver a message to <kcheney at mydomain.com> and something
there answered the connect and spoke enough SMTP to get as far as
receiving a RCPT TO command and to respond that it couldn't relay to
mydomain.com.

Were all the occurrences of mydomain.com in that log entry actually the
same domain before you munged them? It seems pretty strange that a
server at mydomain.com[10.180.50.2] would think it a) needed to relay
to mydomain.com, and b) couldn't. What does [10.180.50.2] think it's
host name is?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Tue Dec  5 05:56:13 2006
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 22:56:13 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate password reminders
Message-ID: <042A97F7-2BB9-40C8-ABEF-D6D514BBF523@goldmark.org>

All of the members of all of the lists on my site appear to be  
getting duplicate reminders.

There is a single crontab entry for mailman calling mailpasswords.   
Is there some additional mechanism by which mailman might be calling  
mailpasswords?

This is mailman 2.1.6

Thank you.

-j


-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From goetz.reinicke at filmakademie.de  Tue Dec  5 08:10:51 2006
From: goetz.reinicke at filmakademie.de (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=F6tz_Reinicke?=)
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 08:10:51 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mails send from a webmail system dont get a
 Subject_prefix if there are umlauts
Message-ID: <45751B7B.5090400@filmakademie.de>

Hi,

recently we noticed, that mails send from our webmailsystem TWIG 
containing a german umlaut in the subject aren't getting a 
Subject_prefix from maliman. Mails from other mailclients do get the 
Subject_prefix.

The problem seams, that twig isn't encoding the subject correctly, so it 
get invalid and thats why mailman isn't setting a Subject_prefix.

Is there a way to get mailman setting the Subject_prefix?

Thanks for hints and comments!

Regrads

G?tz
-- 
G?tz Reinicke
IT Koordinator

Tel. +49 7141 969-420
Fax  +49 7141 969 55-420
goetz.reinicke at filmakademie.de

Filmakademie Baden-W?rttemberg
Mathildenstr. 20
71638 Ludwigsburg
www.filmakademie.de

From d.tkaczyk at uw.edu.pl  Tue Dec  5 08:29:34 2006
From: d.tkaczyk at uw.edu.pl (Dominika Tkaczyk)
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2006 08:29:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation action
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612040859230031b7e52f56@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200612040859230031b7e52f56@msapiro>
Message-ID: <courier.45751FDF.000074AC@hermes4.poczta.uw.edu.pl>

Mark Sapiro napisa?(a): 

> Dominika Tkaczyk wrote:
>>
>>What if I did as you suggested first, but instead of one filter rule that
>>matches everything, there would be one filter rule for each address I want 
>>held (I assume that there won't be more than 4-5 such subscribers), and such 
>>a rule would match a From: header with that address, and of course action 
>>would be Hold?
>  
> 
> Yes, I think that would work. You could have a separate rule for each
> poster or just one rule with a separate regexp for each poster.

Now I see, yes that will probably be a little simpler. I thought earlier 
that a rule has only one regexp. 

> In fact, you could then moderate everyone and set
> default_member_moderation to Yes to simplify maintenance of moderation
> because the header rule would apply to first hold the message and then
> when the held message is approved, it wil bypass moderation. 
> 
> Note however that this wouldn't work if the header rule action was
> accept because messages which are accepted by such a rule still go
> through the additional checks. In this case, the posters would need to
> have their moderate flags off.

Thank you again for your help. 

Dominika 



From kencheney at yahoo.com  Tue Dec  5 16:54:30 2006
From: kencheney at yahoo.com (Ken Cheney)
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 07:54:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listname-leave@domain.com isnt working
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612041610220796d5812572@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061205155430.27666.qmail@web53202.mail.yahoo.com>

The problem with the unsubscribing via email has been solved.... The solution was simple.  NO FIREWALL RULE SET!! Once I added this to my firewall subscribes and unsubscribes work fine.

Now for the relaying to my own domain issue....  I will post another to the list once I get some more information.

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote: Ken Cheney wrote:
>
>should I be looking somewhere other than main.cf?


If you mean Postfix's main.cf, that may be it or it could be in your MX
records or ?


>Patrick Bogen 
 wrote: On 12/4/06, Ken Cheney  wrote:
>> x.x.50.2 is one of my DNS servers it has no email funcionality at all.


Well, accordilng to the maillog entry you quoted earlier

>   Dec  4 09:15:07 listserv postfix/smtp[2580]: 0C3CA2184C3:
>   to=, relay=mydomain.com[10.180.50.2], delay=0,
>   status=bounced (host mydomain.com[10.180.50.2] said: 550 5.7.1 Unable to relay for
>   kcheney at mydomain.com (in reply to RCPT TO command))

Postfix on the mailman machine connected to port 25 [10.180.50.2] in
order to deliver a message to  and something
there answered the connect and spoke enough SMTP to get as far as
receiving a RCPT TO command and to respond that it couldn't relay to
mydomain.com.

Were all the occurrences of mydomain.com in that log entry actually the
same domain before you munged them? It seems pretty strange that a
server at mydomain.com[10.180.50.2] would think it a) needed to relay
to mydomain.com, and b) couldn't. What does [10.180.50.2] think it's
host name is?

-- 
Mark Sapiro        The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




 
---------------------------------
Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

From deepali at infocypher.com  Tue Dec  5 20:09:16 2006
From: deepali at infocypher.com (deepali)
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 14:09:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email Command Confirmations
Message-ID: <24E1A256-6514-4BED-A87D-CA064390A1B3@infocypher.com>

Dear List,

I recently went to the archives to see if there was a way to turn off  
the email command confirmations, and I came across the email thread  
below.

I looked at the patch, was able to change the code, but I am still  
getting email command confirmations.  I am guessing that it is  
because I am not doing something right, since I am new to using  
Mailman and know very little about Python.  So, I have a few questions.

1 - Does this patch work on Mailman 2.1.5?  (This is the version that  
comes with Mac OS Tiger Server.)  If not, does anyone have  
instructions on how to upgrade on OS X Server?  Does 2.1.9 still need  
this patch?

2 - In the patch, it says to set RESPOND_TO_SUCCESSFUL_CONFIRM =  
Yes.  But in the code, it looks for (not  
mm_cfg.RESPOND_TO_SUCCESSFUL_CONFIRM).  If I don't want the  
confirmations, shouldn't I set RESPOND_TO_SUCCESSFUL_CONFIRM = No?

3 - Do I have to compile the code after I change it?  Do I have to  
recreate the list to make the changes work?

My client is waiting on this fix before they go live with a new web  
application, so any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance,
Deepali



Mark Sapiro wrote:

 >Ben Swihart wrote:
 >>
 >>When users subscribe, I like sending them a "welcome" e-mail with
 >>introductions,
 >>instructions, etc.  However, if you send an e-mail to [EMAIL  
PROTECTED],
 >>we are getting this back:
 >>
 >>"The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is  
your
 >>original message.
 >>
 >>- Results:
 >>    Subscription request succeeded.
 >>
 >>- Done."
 >>
 >>Is there a way to disable command result notifications?
 >
 >
 >Attached is a patch against Mailman 2.1.6 to do this. The line numbers
 >will need adjusting for other releases.


BTW, the command results should not be sent if a welcome will be sent
(send_welcome_msg on General Options is Yes) even without the patch.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Dec  5 20:48:03 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 13:48:03 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email Command Confirmations
In-Reply-To: <24E1A256-6514-4BED-A87D-CA064390A1B3@infocypher.com>
References: <24E1A256-6514-4BED-A87D-CA064390A1B3@infocypher.com>
Message-ID: <p06240500c19b7d1e2f7b@[10.0.1.11]>

At 2:09 PM -0500 12/5/06, deepali wrote:

>  3 - Do I have to compile the code after I change it?  Do I have to
>  recreate the list to make the changes work?

Once you change the source code, Python should automatically detect 
the change and compile that for you on-the-fly, after you stop and 
restart Mailman.

As for everything else, I don't know that I can add anything useful.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From tyler at beloit.edu  Wed Dec  6 14:37:34 2006
From: tyler at beloit.edu (Tim Tyler)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 07:37:34 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Converting mailman 2.0.3 to 2.1.5
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20061206072532.0036fec0@beloit.edu>

Mailman users,
   We are about to convert from Mailman 2.0.3 on an AIX 5.1 server 
which we installed over 5 years ago to mailman 2.1.5 on a new RedHat 
server.  The versions appear to be significantly different.  I am 
guessing we can't simply copy over the list structure to the new 
mailman.  What is the recommended approach for converting lists from 
2.0.3 to 2.1.5?  Should we:
1.create all the lists again from scratch
2. convert over the configurations
3. reload the subscribers.
4. send new passwords to the owners.

Any suggestions on this?  We have over a 100 to convert over so I 
don't want to make this any more painful than it already seems.



Tim Tyler
Network Engineer - Beloit College
tyler at beloit.edu 



From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Dec  6 15:29:22 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 08:29:22 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Converting mailman 2.0.3 to 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20061206072532.0036fec0@beloit.edu>
References: <7.0.1.0.0.20061206072532.0036fec0@beloit.edu>
Message-ID: <p06240501c19c83f27fcb@[10.0.1.11]>

At 7:37 AM -0600 12/6/06, Tim Tyler wrote:

>    We are about to convert from Mailman 2.0.3 on an AIX 5.1 server
>  which we installed over 5 years ago to mailman 2.1.5 on a new RedHat
>  server.  The versions appear to be significantly different.  I am
>  guessing we can't simply copy over the list structure to the new
>  mailman.  What is the recommended approach for converting lists from
>  2.0.3 to 2.1.5?

Did you check the FAQ?  Is there anything in FAQ 4.32 that you do not 
understand, or want clarification on?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From gretchen at ladyweave.com  Wed Dec  6 15:59:21 2006
From: gretchen at ladyweave.com (Gretchen at Ladyweave.com | 269-369-1114)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 09:59:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] old mailserver interfering with new one??
In-Reply-To: <mailman.40.1165402815.30974.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <00fc01c71947$1cb19140$64010a0a@shadefc0737047>

 
Good morning.

One of my clients has recently switched hosting companies, both of whom use
Mailman. The new e-mail accounts seem to be working intermittently. When I
looked into the old server's mailboxes, there seem to be "stray" messages in
there that were sent after the hosting switch. Is it possible the old
mailboxes are intercepting messages?

I have attempted to contact our old host with no results so far. I can't
make changes because they did not allow us access to the control panel to
create and delete mailboxes or mailing lists. I'm suspecting something
similar may be happening to the lists.

I'd appreciate insight as to how the Mailman system works.

Thanks --

Gretchen Ohmann
Lady Weave Web Design
P.O. Box 173
Benton Harbor, MI 49023-0173
269-369-1114
gretchen at ladyweave.com
www.ladyweave.com


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Wed Dec  6 16:43:32 2006
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 10:43:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] old mailserver interfering with new one??
In-Reply-To: <00fc01c71947$1cb19140$64010a0a@shadefc0737047>
References: <mailman.40.1165402815.30974.mailman-users@python.org>
	<00fc01c71947$1cb19140$64010a0a@shadefc0737047>
Message-ID: <20061206154332.GB10903@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Gretchen at Ladyweave.com | 269-369-1114 (gretchen at ladyweave.com):
> One of my clients has recently switched hosting companies, both of whom use
> Mailman. The new e-mail accounts seem to be working intermittently. When I
> looked into the old server's mailboxes, there seem to be "stray" messages in
> there that were sent after the hosting switch. Is it possible the old
> mailboxes are intercepting messages?

When you switch from one host to another, you have to update your DNS
(Domain Name Service) records to point to the new site.  However, DNS
records have a "TTL" (time to live) which tells clients that they don't
have to look up the record if they already looked it up less than "TTL"
seconds ago.  So they might still be seeing the old pointer instead of the
new one for however long your TTL is set to (1 day is a very common TTL
value).  Additionally, some people insist on using Microsoft clients, and
Microsoft thinks they're smarter than the creators of DNS records, so they
ignore TTL and cache these things for longer than a day.  But in a few
days, it will all sort out and all the mail will be going to the new host.

I recently switched IPs, and 90% of the traffic switched within a few
hours, and all of it had changed in a day, but I have a strict "NO USING
OUTLOOK OR OUTLOOK EXPRESS" rule on most of my mailing lists.  Your
mileage may vary.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
"By the time they had diminished from 50 to 8, the other dwarves began
to suspect 'Hungry' ..."
		-- Gary Larson, "The Far Side"

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec  6 16:56:12 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 07:56:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate password reminders
In-Reply-To: <042A97F7-2BB9-40C8-ABEF-D6D514BBF523@goldmark.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612060756120500775df060@msapiro>

Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:

>All of the members of all of the lists on my site appear to be  
>getting duplicate reminders.
>
>There is a single crontab entry for mailman calling mailpasswords.   
>Is there some additional mechanism by which mailman might be calling  
>mailpasswords?


Not unless someone at your site created it. Are you sure there aren't
two crontabs; one for the mailman user (/var/spool/cron/mailman or ??)
and a system one in /etc/cron.d?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From forrest at ce.berkeley.edu  Wed Dec  6 17:26:13 2006
From: forrest at ce.berkeley.edu (Jon Forrest)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 08:26:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suggestion For Better Way of Doing List
	Configuration
In-Reply-To: <00fc01c71947$1cb19140$64010a0a@shadefc0737047>
References: <00fc01c71947$1cb19140$64010a0a@shadefc0737047>
Message-ID: <4576EF25.5020708@ce.berkeley.edu>

I'm relatively new to Mailman but I've managed
to build it from source and set up a few lists,
with generous help from this list.

While working through issues relating to
creating a standard list configuration, I started
to feel that there was a fundamental flaw in the
way Mailman lists are configured that I couldn't quite put
my finger on. Of course, this could be due me not knowing
or understanding something, and, if so, I'll be happy
to retract what I'm going to say below.

Yesterday, I realized that I had made a mistake in
how I had configured all my lists (I only have about
6 so far, so this is no great tragedy). This was entirely
my fault, and not due to anything amiss in Mailman.
So, using the web interface, I fixed the mistake on
all 6 lists. This wasn't too bad, but it got me to
thinking what I would have had to do if I had 1,000
lists.

All of a sudden the thought hit me that would it
be better if Mailman lists were designed kind of like
classes in an object oriented programming language.
There would be one super list which would be configured
with all the standard values you want every list to have.
Then, there would be lists derived from the super list,
which would only need to be configured to have values
different than the super list. There could even be lists
derived from these lists, and so on down the line.

With this design philosophy it would be very easy to
make changes that effect multiple lists because the
change would only have to be made in one place. I haven't
thought it through but it might even be possible for this
class-like design to include list membership making
it easier to have one list contain other lists as members.

Given that Mailman is written in Python, my naive impression
would be that this should be relatively easy to implement.
(As my old boss Mike Stonebraker used to say, it's just
"a simple matter of software").

In reading the Mailman documentation I saw a mention of
an "umbrella list", but the only description here says
"umbrella lists" are depreciated and will be replaced with
a better mechanism for Mailman 3.0". Are umbrella lists
somehow related to what I'm talking about?

Am I completely out to lunch or does this make any sense?

Cordially,



-- 
Jon Forrest
forrest at ce.berkeley.edu
Computer Resources Manager
Civil and Environmental Engineering Dept.
305 Davis Hall
Univ. of Calif., Berkeley
Berkeley, CA 94720-1710
510-642-0904

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Dec  6 17:39:10 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 10:39:10 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suggestion For Better Way of Doing List
	Configuration
In-Reply-To: <4576EF25.5020708@ce.berkeley.edu>
References: <00fc01c71947$1cb19140$64010a0a@shadefc0737047>
	<4576EF25.5020708@ce.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00612060839q3dfc84d1ge013d6c2324c9dd9@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/6/06, Jon Forrest <forrest at ce.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> I'm relatively new to Mailman but I've managed
> to build it from source and set up a few lists,
> with generous help from this list.
>
> While working through issues relating to
> creating a standard list configuration, I started
> to feel that there was a fundamental flaw in the
> way Mailman lists are configured that I couldn't quite put
> my finger on. Of course, this could be due me not knowing
> or understanding something, and, if so, I'll be happy
> to retract what I'm going to say below.
>
> Yesterday, I realized that I had made a mistake in
> how I had configured all my lists (I only have about
> 6 so far, so this is no great tragedy). This was entirely
> my fault, and not due to anything amiss in Mailman.
> So, using the web interface, I fixed the mistake on
> all 6 lists. This wasn't too bad, but it got me to
> thinking what I would have had to do if I had 1,000
> lists.
The command-line config_list and/or with_list tools have a slightly
higher up-front cost (in terms of work required), but trivialize the
cost-per-list for config updates, for the purpose of applying a single
value across multiple lists.

> All of a sudden the thought hit me that would it
> be better if Mailman lists were designed kind of like
> classes in an object oriented programming language.
> There would be one super list which would be configured
> with all the standard values you want every list to have.
> Then, there would be lists derived from the super list,
> which would only need to be configured to have values
> different than the super list. There could even be lists
> derived from these lists, and so on down the line.
Someone else can probably give a better analysis, but from my
understanding, something like what you're suggesting would represent a
significant departure from the current Mailman architecture, and this
would constitute a fairly major rewrite.

> With this design philosophy it would be very easy to
> make changes that effect multiple lists because the
> change would only have to be made in one place. I haven't
> thought it through but it might even be possible for this
> class-like design to include list membership making
> it easier to have one list contain other lists as members.
>
> Given that Mailman is written in Python, my naive impression
> would be that this should be relatively easy to implement.
> (As my old boss Mike Stonebraker used to say, it's just
> "a simple matter of software").
>
> In reading the Mailman documentation I saw a mention of
> an "umbrella list", but the only description here says
> "umbrella lists" are depreciated and will be replaced with
> a better mechanism for Mailman 3.0". Are umbrella lists
> somehow related to what I'm talking about?
Umbrella lists deal with lists that distribute their messages primarly
to other lists, rather than users. So, no, they aren't really related.


-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From gonzalez_ja at hotmail.com  Wed Dec  6 17:59:53 2006
From: gonzalez_ja at hotmail.com (Javier Armando gonzalez)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 11:59:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header intact
Message-ID: <BAY124-W5342BD8367667FB58C769495DD0@phx.gbl>


_________________________________________________________________
Prueba algunos de los nuevos servicios en l?nea que te ofrece Windows Live Ideas: tan nuevos que ni siquiera se han publicado oficialmente todav?a.
http://ideas.live.com

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Wed Dec  6 17:59:23 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 08:59:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suggestion For Better Way of Doing List
 Configuration
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00612060839q3dfc84d1ge013d6c2324c9dd9@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <00fc01c71947$1cb19140$64010a0a@shadefc0737047>
	<4576EF25.5020708@ce.berkeley.edu>
	<6fbe3da00612060839q3dfc84d1ge013d6c2324c9dd9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20061206084947.067cfc00@crimson-dragon.com>

Patrick Bogen sent the message below at 08:39 12/6/2006:
>On 12/6/06, Jon Forrest <forrest at ce.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> > I'm relatively new to Mailman but I've managed
> > to build it from source and set up a few lists,
> > with generous help from this list.
> >
> > While working through issues relating to
> > creating a standard list configuration, I started
> > to feel that there was a fundamental flaw in the
> > way Mailman lists are configured that I couldn't quite put
> > my finger on. Of course, this could be due me not knowing
> > or understanding something, and, if so, I'll be happy
> > to retract what I'm going to say below.
> >
> > Yesterday, I realized that I had made a mistake in
> > how I had configured all my lists (I only have about
> > 6 so far, so this is no great tragedy). This was entirely
> > my fault, and not due to anything amiss in Mailman.
> > So, using the web interface, I fixed the mistake on
> > all 6 lists. This wasn't too bad, but it got me to
> > thinking what I would have had to do if I had 1,000
> > lists.
>The command-line config_list and/or with_list tools have a slightly
>higher up-front cost (in terms of work required), but trivialize the
>cost-per-list for config updates, for the purpose of applying a single
>value across multiple lists.

Pretty much true if you understand Python and this tool. It's pretty 
daunting if you do not. It sure would be nice to have some tools that 
don't require knowledge of how Python works to achieve a lot of 
common administrative tasks.

It would also be very nice to have a full templating system to allow 
customizing all web pages and e-mail notifications. (Just one of the 
things I would really like to see, I don't have the Python skills to 
do it myself but I would be willing to help test it...)


> > All of a sudden the thought hit me that would it
> > be better if Mailman lists were designed kind of like
> > classes in an object oriented programming language.
> > There would be one super list which would be configured
> > with all the standard values you want every list to have.
> > Then, there would be lists derived from the super list,
> > which would only need to be configured to have values
> > different than the super list. There could even be lists
> > derived from these lists, and so on down the line.
>Someone else can probably give a better analysis, but from my
>understanding, something like what you're suggesting would represent a
>significant departure from the current Mailman architecture, and this
>would constitute a fairly major rewrite.

As far as I can discern from my limited perusing of source code, it 
would be a huge change in architecture. This would probably mean 
throwing out what exists now and restarting from scratch. I believe 
that it has been a stated goal to move list configuration to a "real" 
database system in future so this may well become a moot point 
if/when that happens.

To be honest this is also probably a better topic of discussion for 
the developers list instead of for this list.


> > With this design philosophy it would be very easy to
> > make changes that effect multiple lists because the
> > change would only have to be made in one place. I haven't
> > thought it through but it might even be possible for this
> > class-like design to include list membership making
> > it easier to have one list contain other lists as members.
> >
> > Given that Mailman is written in Python, my naive impression
> > would be that this should be relatively easy to implement.
> > (As my old boss Mike Stonebraker used to say, it's just
> > "a simple matter of software").

Your old boss obviously has no realistic grasp of the subject.



Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From barry at python.org  Wed Dec  6 18:34:57 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 12:34:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suggestion For Better Way of Doing List
	Configuration
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061206084947.067cfc00@crimson-dragon.com>
References: <00fc01c71947$1cb19140$64010a0a@shadefc0737047>
	<4576EF25.5020708@ce.berkeley.edu>
	<6fbe3da00612060839q3dfc84d1ge013d6c2324c9dd9@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20061206084947.067cfc00@crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <1650A46E-C3F9-4641-A594-27DA2E539291@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Dec 6, 2006, at 11:59 AM, Dragon wrote:

> As far as I can discern from my limited perusing of source code, it
> would be a huge change in architecture.

This is true.  While a more detailed discussion of this topic belongs  
on the developers list, I will say that my plan is to improve the  
situation in MM2.2 by developing a 'styles' feature.  It won't go as  
far as being object oriented with attribute inheritance, but it will  
allow you to group common attributes in a style, and then apply that  
style either when you create the list or after the fact.

- -Barry

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin)

iQCVAwUBRXb/RnEjvBPtnXfVAQJJRgP9HwRZKMM03JxD09jOqT6VWZWJNzGvP0/9
HeflKT45PejNmRI9r9T3+G8K8fRUn5Ih/byKP7pIRdgSlyKlUs9I9abybdB6KE/4
r89ectug8iYWriZksBf/Gwe9MqzQcMXN6sdJBuJgnlnyKgFjQlxUBl/ccHiAOztD
kFbwZTWVDbc=
=Nkl7
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Dec  6 18:32:02 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 11:32:02 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suggestion For Better Way of Doing List
 Configuration
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00612060839q3dfc84d1ge013d6c2324c9dd9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <00fc01c71947$1cb19140$64010a0a@shadefc0737047>
	<4576EF25.5020708@ce.berkeley.edu>
	<6fbe3da00612060839q3dfc84d1ge013d6c2324c9dd9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240500c19cae7275dc@[10.0.1.11]>

At 10:39 AM -0600 12/6/06, Patrick Bogen wrote:

>  The command-line config_list and/or with_list tools have a slightly
>  higher up-front cost (in terms of work required), but trivialize the
>  cost-per-list for config updates, for the purpose of applying a single
>  value across multiple lists.

Correct, insofar as it goes.  However, these are command-line tools, 
and one of the things I'd like to see is a move to make it possible 
to do everything that can be done from the web interface, just as 
easily (if not more so) as you can do from the CLI.  But that's a 
very long-term goal.

>  Someone else can probably give a better analysis, but from my
>  understanding, something like what you're suggesting would represent a
>  significant departure from the current Mailman architecture, and this
>  would constitute a fairly major rewrite.

Yeah, that would be a huge rewrite.  Now, Mailman3 will be a complete 
rewrite, and this kind of thing would be a perfectly valid subject to 
discuss on that list.  Of course, no one knows when Mailman3 will 
arrive, so again this is a long-term issue.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Dec  6 18:35:58 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 11:35:58 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suggestion For Better Way of Doing List
 Configuration
In-Reply-To: <4576EF25.5020708@ce.berkeley.edu>
References: <00fc01c71947$1cb19140$64010a0a@shadefc0737047>
	<4576EF25.5020708@ce.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <p06240501c19caf159c2b@[10.0.1.11]>

At 8:26 AM -0800 12/6/06, Jon Forrest wrote:

>  Given that Mailman is written in Python, my naive impression
>  would be that this should be relatively easy to implement.
>  (As my old boss Mike Stonebraker used to say, it's just
>  "a simple matter of software").

Unfortunately, there are people on this list who won't get that 
reference.  I didn't get it the first few times I heard it.  I had to 
have it explained to me.

For those people, please understand that this is a particularly dry 
form of humor, and the word "small" is used in more a cosmological 
sense -- as in, anything that exists on this planet is necessarily 
small when compared to the size of the entire Universe.

For more information, see <http://catb.org/jargon/html/S/SMOP.html> 
and <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMOP>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Dec  6 18:36:41 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 11:36:41 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suggestion For Better Way of Doing List
 Configuration
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061206084947.067cfc00@crimson-dragon.com>
References: <00fc01c71947$1cb19140$64010a0a@shadefc0737047>
	<4576EF25.5020708@ce.berkeley.edu>
	<6fbe3da00612060839q3dfc84d1ge013d6c2324c9dd9@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20061206084947.067cfc00@crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <p06240502c19cb00ed696@[10.0.1.11]>

At 8:59 AM -0800 12/6/06, Dragon wrote:

>  Your old boss obviously has no realistic grasp of the subject.

Don't jump to conclusions too quickly.  See my other message first.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Wed Dec  6 19:50:20 2006
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 12:50:20 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate password reminders
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612060756120500775df060@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200612060756120500775df060@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C0846128-D4C9-4515-994A-201AECB50342@goldmark.org>

On Dec 6, 2006, at 9:56 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:

>> There is a single crontab entry for mailman calling mailpasswords.
>> Is there some additional mechanism by which mailman might be calling
>> mailpasswords?
>
>
> Not unless someone at your site created it. Are you sure there aren't
> two crontabs; one for the mailman user (/var/spool/cron/mailman or ??)
> and a system one in /etc/cron.d?

That's it.  I feel like an idiot.  There is a /etc/cron.d/mailman  
which is identical to crontab -l -u mailman.

This explains some other repetitions in logs.

I installed the latter, so I guess the rpm (SuSE 10.0) installed the  
former.

I should have thought to look there, but I forgot about /etc/cron.d

Cheers,

-j

-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From gilmore.126 at osu.edu  Wed Dec  6 19:44:21 2006
From: gilmore.126 at osu.edu (Melinda)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 13:44:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] conversion
Message-ID: <007901c71966$8b42fc10$4af39280@oitlan.oit.ohiostate.edu>

I could use some pointers in my conversion from Listproc to Mailman.   I am
also going from a Solaris machine to a Redhat Linux.   I am very very new to
Unix, Linux and could use some help in my conversion over to the new machine
with Mailman.   How exactly can I get my old Listproc Lists merged over to
this new mailman machine.  How does mailman get its address?  What will
happen to my old address of the old list when created with the new list?
Can I keep them the same??

 

 

Pardon my ingnorance to any of those that are expert at this.   I have
managed to install Mailman on a Redhat box so far.  But still have to go
through the configuration.  

 

Thanks


From anne.ramey at ncmail.net  Wed Dec  6 20:14:06 2006
From: anne.ramey at ncmail.net (Anne Ramey)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 14:14:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't login mailman list admin web
Message-ID: <4577167E.2050901@ncmail.net>



    Mark Sapiro wrote:

    Stanley Chen wrote:
      

>     >
>     >Recently we have sent out several mails to this list, and it's still 
>     >running.
>         


    What is still running? Is Mailman still sending to the MTA?


      

>     >However, we can't login to the admin webpage. After we input password, 
>     >the page was loading as shown in the status bar, but after several 
>     >minutes still can't show the admin page and finally it said "page can't 
>     >be loaded".
>         


    Seems like the list may be locked. If so, and the lock is stale, you
    can manually remove the lock from Mailman's locks/ directory, but
    first be sure it isn't locked by some current process.
      

Sounds to me like the server is just too busy for the web to respond 
before the browser time-out.  I used to get this all the time on my 
100K-500K member list sendings.  If a message was still being 
sent/processed, the web site would not respond, or would respond very 
slowly.  It is generally the case that servers consider other task, 
including smtp, a higher priority than http requests.  This can cause 
http requests to time out if the server resources are otherwise occupied.

-- 

Anne 


From anne.ramey at ncmail.net  Wed Dec  6 20:18:07 2006
From: anne.ramey at ncmail.net (Anne Ramey)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 14:18:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing members with non-standard characters
Message-ID: <4577176F.2010807@ncmail.net>

I'm not sure how one of my list admins managed to do this, but they have 
four members on their list that look like this in the membership list:
b 
<http://lists.ncmail.net/mailman/options/nciin-network-ops/%00b%00r%00i%00a%00n%00v%00--at--%00n%00c%00c%00c%00s%00.%00c%00c%00.%00n%00c%00.%00u%00s%00%00%00%00%00%1F%00%00%00%01%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%03%00%00%00>

From wheakory at isu.edu  Wed Dec  6 19:41:31 2006
From: wheakory at isu.edu (Kory Wheatley)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 11:41:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages
Message-ID: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>

I'm running Mailman 2.1.6 is there a script you can run to automatically 
remove all archive messages from a list?

From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Wed Dec  6 21:09:13 2006
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 09:09:13 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with spam filter rules "disappearing" on a
	regular basis
Message-ID: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A37010CDA1D@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Under spam filter rule 1 I have this, 

Subject: \*\*\*\*\*SPAM\*\*\*\*\*  which is set to discard.

However every so often (days or some weeks) the rule disappears and I
have to re-add it. This seems to happen to a number of lists....

I have grep'd through the logs can find no obvious comments that someone
has changed the settings or reason why these disappear, it does not
happen to every list on the same day....seems more likely the lists are
loosing settings on a regular though random basis (3~14 days or so), so
a bug?

The mailman version I have is,

mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.7

regards

Steven Jones
Senior  Linux/Unix/San System Administrator
APG -Technology Integration Team
Victoria University of Wellington
Phone: +64 4 463 6272 Mobile: +64 27 563 6272 

From choi.paul.h at gmail.com  Wed Dec  6 21:31:38 2006
From: choi.paul.h at gmail.com (Paul Choi)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 12:31:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with umbrella lists
Message-ID: <71c548c20612061231q6f8bada8k195674712b7de313@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I have a newbie question...

I was wondering if someone could help me with an issue I'm having.
We're trying to set up an umbrella list (I think that's the term).

For example, we have lists:
   b at foo.com
   c at foo.com
   d at foo.com
   and so on...

and a at foo.com's members are:
   b at foo.com
   c at foo.com
   d at foo.com
   and so on...

And all the lists allow non-members to post. But when we send an email to
a at foo.com, the admins and moderators for the child lists get an email saying
they need to approve the post. I've scoured the admin interface options, but
I can't seem to figure it out. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

From junkmailtrapenator at gmail.com  Wed Dec  6 21:48:40 2006
From: junkmailtrapenator at gmail.com (Matthew)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 15:48:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can mailman pickup mail via pop3
Message-ID: <cc1f9e5c0612061248n99e57b3qd28a153536d7ab6f@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I was wondering if this was possible with mailman:

I would like to be able to have mailman pickup incoming mail to the list
via an external POP3 server (important) and submit it out to the
list via an external SMTP server (not as important).

If this can't work does anyone have any ideas on a good way to make mailman
work when you don't have full control of the mail server?

Thanks

From srb at umich.edu  Wed Dec  6 22:12:53 2006
From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling)
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 16:12:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with spam filter rules "disappearing"
 on a	regular basis
In-Reply-To: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A37010CDA1D@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A37010CDA1D@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <D53F74224315E9BE59143109@srb.icpsr.umich.edu>

--On December 7, 2006 9:09:13 AM +1300 Steven Jones 
<Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz> wrote:

> Under spam filter rule 1 I have this,
>
> Subject: \*\*\*\*\*SPAM\*\*\*\*\*  which is set to discard.
>
> However every so often (days or some weeks) the rule disappears and I
> have to re-add it. This seems to happen to a number of lists....

To which I reply:

I can't remember for sure when this patch made it into the mainline code, 
but it sure sounds like what you're seeing:

<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1020102&group_id=103&atid=300103>

-- 
Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910

From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Wed Dec  6 23:19:29 2006
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 11:19:29 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with spam filter rules "disappearing"
	on a	regular basis
Message-ID: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A37010CDA3E@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Hi,

This is an old bug...2004....is there anyway to determine if the patch
is in my version?

regards

Steven Jones
Senior  Linux/Unix/San System Administrator
APG -Technology Integration Team
Victoria University of Wellington
Phone: +64 4 463 6272 Mobile: +64 27 563 6272 

 


-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Burling [mailto:srb at umich.edu] 
Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2006 10:13 a.m.
To: mailman-users at python.org
Cc: Steven Jones
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] problems with spam filter rules
"disappearing" on a regular basis

--On December 7, 2006 9:09:13 AM +1300 Steven Jones 
<Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz> wrote:

> Under spam filter rule 1 I have this,
>
> Subject: \*\*\*\*\*SPAM\*\*\*\*\*  which is set to discard.
>
> However every so often (days or some weeks) the rule disappears and I
> have to re-add it. This seems to happen to a number of lists....

To which I reply:

I can't remember for sure when this patch made it into the mainline
code, 
but it sure sounds like what you're seeing:

<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1020102&group_
id=103&atid=300103>

-- 
Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Dec  6 23:50:55 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 16:50:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can mailman pickup mail via pop3
In-Reply-To: <cc1f9e5c0612061248n99e57b3qd28a153536d7ab6f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cc1f9e5c0612061248n99e57b3qd28a153536d7ab6f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00612061450v1847bbe6y52b52722158fe792@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/6/06, Matthew <junkmailtrapenator at gmail.com> wrote:
> I would like to be able to have mailman pickup incoming mail to the list
> via an external POP3 server (important)
A program called 'fetchmail' can... fetch mail, from a POP3 server and
deliver it using the local MTA. It's pretty easy to set up.

> and submit it out to the
> list via an external SMTP server (not as important).
Mailman can do this natively. It's pretty trivial; you just change the
SMTPHOST variable in your mm_cfg.py appropriately.
Alternatively, you can set up the MTA on the mailman machine (FWIW, I
recommend Postfix) to deliver via a smart host. This is also pretty
easy to do.


-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Dec  7 00:41:51 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 17:41:51 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with umbrella lists
In-Reply-To: <71c548c20612061231q6f8bada8k195674712b7de313@mail.gmail.com>
References: <71c548c20612061231q6f8bada8k195674712b7de313@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00612061541x51fb9061u8cf72c3c749bc436@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/6/06, Paul Choi <choi.paul.h at gmail.com> wrote:
> And all the lists allow non-members to post. But when we send an email to
> a at foo.com, the admins and moderators for the child lists get an email saying
> they need to approve the post. I've scoured the admin interface options, but
> I can't seem to figure it out. Any help would be appreciated.

Do you have access to the command line? If so, check the 'vette' log
to find a reason for the message being held.

The only setting I can think of that you might have overlooked is the
require_explicit_destination setting, but I didn't think this held the
message. That said, I'm not sure what action it triggers, so check it
anyway.

You might want to double-check and see if there's any spam filters set up.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Dec  7 00:50:48 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 17:50:48 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing members with non-standard characters
In-Reply-To: <4577176F.2010807@ncmail.net>
References: <4577176F.2010807@ncmail.net>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00612061550v16caae91hcc939f3f5a3a16bc@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/6/06, Anne Ramey <anne.ramey at ncmail.net> wrote:
> I'm not sure how one of my list admins managed to do this, but they have
> four members on their list that look like this in the membership list:
> b
> <http://lists.ncmail.net/mailman/options/nciin-network-ops/%00b%00r%00i%00a%00n%00v%00--at--%00n%00c%00c%00c%00s%00.%00c%00c%00.%00n%00c%00.%00u%00s%00%00%00%00%00%1F%00%00%00%01%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%03%00%00%00>

See FAQ 3.13. How do I remove a user name or email address with an
illegal character in it?
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.013.htp>

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Thu Dec  7 02:06:11 2006
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 14:06:11 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam filters disappearing....
Message-ID: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A37010CDA58@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>


It did it again....

So I got about 4 hours from adding a spam filter before it again
disappears....

Is there anyway to check the rpm for the patch for the bug? Because if
it is not there OK, I can chase RH, if it is there then the patch did
not fix the issue/bug.

:/

regards

Steven Jones
Senior  Linux/Unix/San System Administrator
APG -Technology Integration Team
Victoria University of Wellington
Phone: +64 4 463 6272 Mobile: +64 27 563 6272 


From kim.hawtin at adelaide.edu.au  Thu Dec  7 02:17:55 2006
From: kim.hawtin at adelaide.edu.au (Kim Hawtin)
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 11:47:55 +1030
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Limit on list names
Message-ID: <45776BC3.4050606@adelaide.edu.au>

Hi guys,

Is there a limit to the length of a list name?

We are using "afwb-academic-staff.agwine" but its barfing...

Any ideas?

regards,

Kim
-- 
Operating Systems, Services and Operations
Information Technology Services, The University of Adelaide
kim.hawtin at adelaide.edu.au

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec  7 05:15:55 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 20:15:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam filters disappearing....
In-Reply-To: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A37010CDA58@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <PC17602006120620155501401fd8d243@msapiro>

Steven Jones wrote:
>
>Is there anyway to check the rpm for the patch for the bug? Because if
>it is not there OK, I can chase RH, if it is there then the patch did
>not fix the issue/bug.


You said you were running a 2.1.5 version. The fix was first released
in 2.1.6. I believe Red Hat only backports security fixes and I doubt
they consider this to be one.

If you want to check, you could download the patch from
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1020102&group_id=103&atid=300103>
and look at your Mailman/Gui/Privacy.py and see if it looks like the
patch is there.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Dec  7 09:11:35 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 02:11:35 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't login mailman list admin web
In-Reply-To: <4577167E.2050901@ncmail.net>
References: <4577167E.2050901@ncmail.net>
Message-ID: <p06240500c19d7ca44aa1@[10.0.1.11]>

At 2:14 PM -0500 12/6/06, Anne Ramey wrote:

>  Sounds to me like the server is just too busy for the web to respond
>  before the browser time-out.  I used to get this all the time on my
>  100K-500K member list sendings.

This can happen on busy servers.  Or even just pulling up a large 
list of messages in the moderators hold queue.  This is why better 
command-line tools are needed for moderators, as well as for other 
aspects of Mailman administration.

It would also help if we could improve the system to the point where 
the web admin interface was the last thing to go away, so that you 
wouldn't need the command-line tools, at least not unless the 
situation was so bad that you just had to shut everything down and 
clean up the problem offline, then bring the server(s) back up.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Dec  7 09:14:05 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 02:14:05 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Limit on list names
In-Reply-To: <45776BC3.4050606@adelaide.edu.au>
References: <45776BC3.4050606@adelaide.edu.au>
Message-ID: <p06240501c19d7d8f81dd@[10.0.1.11]>

At 11:47 AM +1030 12/7/06, Kim Hawtin wrote:

>  Is there a limit to the length of a list name?
>
>  We are using "afwb-academic-staff.agwine" but its barfing...

I wouldn't expect that there would be an internal problem with long 
list names in Mailman, but your MTA might have length limitations on 
the left-hand-side of aliases, if you're using aliases to route 
e-mail via the MTA into Mailman.

Where's it barfing?  What's in the logs?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From Jean.BERTHOLD at eosholding.ch  Thu Dec  7 09:34:45 2006
From: Jean.BERTHOLD at eosholding.ch (BERTHOLD Jean)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 09:34:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email arrives after a long delay
Message-ID: <C02FA870DECC5F4A933E05E3A37F441720A699@SWEXCH.sila.local>

Hello,
 
I have a configuration problem.
All my lists works correctly excepted that the emails arrives with a delay of 10 minutes on the mailman server.
All email are forwarded from our MS Exchange server, but email are received on my mailman server with 10 minutes late. 
A first, I asked to our Exchange administrator, In the Exchange Mail mail queue we can see that emails are in wait during at least 10 minutes.
Exchange administrator can't explain that...
 
On my mailman server if I check the logs:
 
root at bahamas <mailto:root at bahamas>  # pwd
/usr/local/mailman/logs
root at bahamas <mailto:root at bahamas>  # tail -f post
...
Dec 06 12:49:49 2006 (4144) post to fpbg-dtr from jean.berthold at eosholding.ch <mailto:jean.berthold at eosholding.ch> , size=1880, message-id=<C02FA870DECC5F4A933E05E3A37F441720A630 at SWEXCH.sila.local <mailto:C02FA870DECC5F4A933E05E3A37F441720A630 at SWEXCH.sila.local> >, success

Dec 06 13:08:18 2006 (4144) post to fpbg-dtr from jean.berthold at eosholding.ch <mailto:jean.berthold at eosholding.ch> , size=1875, message-id=<C02FA870DECC5F4A933E05E3A37F441720A634 at SWEXCH.sila.local <mailto:C02FA870DECC5F4A933E05E3A37F441720A634 at SWEXCH.sila.local> >, success
 
root at bahamas <mailto:root at bahamas>  # pwd
/usr/local/mailman/logs
root at bahamas <mailto:root at bahamas>  # tail -f smtp
...
Dec 06 12:49:49 2006 (4144) <C02FA870DECC5F4A933E05E3A37F441720A630 at SWEXCH.sila.local <mailto:C02FA870DECC5F4A933E05E3A37F441720A630 at SWEXCH.sila.local> > smtp to fpbg-dtr for 1 recips, completed in 0.318 seconds

And finally, the sendmail log:
 
root at bahamas <mailto:root at bahamas>  # pwd
/var/log
root at bahamas <mailto:root at bahamas>  # tail -f syslog
...
Dec  6 12:48:46 bahamas sendmail[16562]: [ID 801593 mail.warning] kB6BcXf1016562: collect: premature EOM: unexpected close
Dec  6 12:48:46 bahamas sendmail[16562]: [ID 801593 mail.notice] kB6BcXf1016562: collect: unexpected close on connection from swexch01lpro.sila.local, sender=<CheckTpsAckCnfMailTask at sila.local <mailto:CheckTpsAckCnfMailTask at sila.local> >
Dec  6 12:48:46 bahamas sendmail[16562]: [ID 801593 mail.info] kB6BcXf1016562: from=<CheckTpsAckCnfMailTask at sila.local <mailto:CheckTpsAckCnfMailTask at sila.local> >, size=1217, class=0, nrcpts=1, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=swexch01lpro.sila.local [172.25.2.76]
Dec  6 12:49:46 bahamas sendmail[16721]: [ID 801593 mail.info] kB6BnkRQ016721: from=<Jean.BERTHOLD at eosholding.ch <mailto:Jean.BERTHOLD at eosholding.ch> >, size=1315, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<C02FA870DECC5F4A933E05E3A37F441720A630 at SWEXCH.sila.local <mailto:C02FA870DECC5F4A933E05E3A37F441720A630 at SWEXCH.sila.local> >, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=swexch01lpro.sila.local [172.25.2.76]
Dec  6 12:49:47 bahamas sendmail[16722]: [ID 801593 mail.info] kB6BnkRQ016721: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post fpbg-dtr", ctladdr=<fpbg-dtr at bahamas.sila.local <mailto:fpbg-dtr at bahamas.sila.local> > (1/0), delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, pri=31536, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
Dec  6 12:49:49 bahamas sendmail[16725]: [ID 801593 mail.info] kB6Bnnn6016725: from=<fpbg-dtr-bounces at bahamas.sila.local <mailto:fpbg-dtr-bounces at bahamas.sila.local> >, size=1880, class=-30, nrcpts=1, msgid=<C02FA870DECC5F4A933E05E3A37F441720A630 at SWEXCH.sila.local <mailto:C02FA870DECC5F4A933E05E3A37F441720A630 at SWEXCH.sila.local> >, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
...
Dec  6 13:08:20 bahamas sendmail[17179]: [ID 801593 mail.info] kB6C8Kge017177: to=<jean.berthold at eosholding.ch <mailto:jean.berthold at eosholding.ch> >, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=esmtp, pri=176820, relay=mta0.eosholding.ch. [193.8.222.23], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (Ok: queued as 360A520C03B)
Dec  6 13:08:21 bahamas sendmail[17180]: [ID 801593 mail.info] kB6C8LhF017180: from=<fpbg-dct-bounces at bahamas.sila.local <mailto:fpbg-dct-bounces at bahamas.sila.local> >, size=2777, class=-30, nrcpts=1, msgid=<-227556877.1165399238285.JavaMail.javamailuser at localhost <mailto:-227556877.1165399238285.JavaMail.javamailuser at localhost> >, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
Dec  6 13:08:21 bahamas sendmail[17182]: [ID 801593 mail.info] kB6C8LhF017180: to=<jean.berthold at eosholding.ch <mailto:jean.berthold at eosholding.ch> >, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=esmtp, pri=176777, relay=mta0.eosholding.ch. [193.8.222.23], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (Ok: queued as 5E95B20C053)

As you can see, there is some warning with sendmail ( [ID 801593 mail.warning] kB6BcXf1016562: collect: premature EOM: unexpected close )
 
My configuration is the following:
----------------------------------
Processes runing for mailman
 
root at bahamas # ps -cafe | grep sendmail
   smmsp  5183     1   TS  59   Nov 15 ?        0:06 /usr/lib/sendmail -Ac -q15m
    root  5181     1   TS  59   Nov 15 ?        0:21 /usr/lib/sendmail -bd -q15m
root at bahamas # ps -cafe | grep mailman
 mailman  4149 13070   TS  59   Nov 15 ?        0:07 /usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
 mailman  4150 13070   TS  59   Nov 15 ?        0:01 /usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -
 mailman  4147 13070   TS  12   Nov 15 ?       42:21 /usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
 mailman  4145 13070   TS  52   Nov 15 ?        6:24 /usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:
 mailman  4146 13070   TS  59   Nov 15 ?        0:20 /usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 
 mailman  4151 13070   TS  59   Nov 15 ?        0:08 /usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 
 mailman  4144 13070   TS  59   Nov 15 ?        1:20 /usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:
 mailman  4148 13070   TS  59   Nov 15 ?        0:07 /usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1
 mailman 13070     1   TS  59   Sep 13 ?        0:00 /usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start
root at bahamas # ps -cafe | grep httpd
  nobody 16438 16434   TS  59   Oct 27 ?        0:01 /usr/local/apache2/bin/httpd -k start
    root 16434     1   TS  59   Oct 27 ?        0:04 /usr/local/apache2/bin/httpd -k start
  nobody 16440 16434   TS  59   Oct 27 ?        0:01 /usr/local/apache2/bin/httpd -k start
  nobody 16436 16434   TS  59   Oct 27 ?        0:01 /usr/local/apache2/bin/httpd -k start
  nobody 16530 16434   TS  59   Oct 27 ?        0:01 /usr/local/apache2/bin/httpd -k start
  nobody 16439 16434   TS  59   Oct 27 ?        0:01 /usr/local/apache2/bin/httpd -k start
  nobody 16441 16434   TS  59   Oct 27 ?        0:01 /usr/local/apache2/bin/httpd -k start
  nobody 16679 16434   TS  59   Oct 27 ?        0:01 /usr/local/apache2/bin/httpd -k start
  nobody 16437 16434   TS  59   Oct 27 ?        0:01 /usr/local/apache2/bin/httpd -k start
root at bahamas # 

 
Operating system is Solaris 9:
--------------------------------------------
root at bahamas # uname -a
SunOS bahamas 5.9 Generic_118558-30 sun4u sparc SUNW,UltraAX-i2
root at bahamas # 

Sendmail release:
--------------------------
I don't changed anything in my sendmail configuration...
 
root at bahamas # pkginfo | grep Sendmail
system      SUNWsndmr            Sendmail (root)
system      SUNWsndmu            Sendmail (/usr)
root at bahamas # pkginfo -l SUNWsndmr
   PKGINST:  SUNWsndmr
      NAME:  Sendmail (root)
  CATEGORY:  system
      ARCH:  sparc
   VERSION:  11.9.0,REV=2002.04.06.15.27
   BASEDIR:  /
    VENDOR:  Sun Microsystems, Inc.
      DESC:  Sendmail Configuration Files
    PSTAMP:  leo20061026135850
  INSTDATE:  Nov 15 2006 15:30
   HOTLINE:  Please contact your local service provider
    STATUS:  completely installed
     FILES:       28 installed pathnames
                  10 shared pathnames
                   4 linked files
                  13 directories
                   1 executables
                 335 blocks used (approx)
 
root at bahamas # pkginfo -l SUNWsndmu
   PKGINST:  SUNWsndmu
      NAME:  Sendmail (/usr)
  CATEGORY:  system
      ARCH:  sparc
   VERSION:  11.9.0,REV=2002.04.06.15.27
   BASEDIR:  /
    VENDOR:  Sun Microsystems, Inc.
      DESC:  Sendmail Utilities
    PSTAMP:  leo20061026135852
  INSTDATE:  Nov 15 2006 15:30
   HOTLINE:  Please contact your local service provider
    STATUS:  completely installed
     FILES:      111 installed pathnames
                   8 shared pathnames
                  16 directories
                  14 executables
                   2 setuid/setgid executables
                5687 blocks used (approx)
 
root at bahamas # 

Mailman is 2.1.8 release and apache is running on release 2.
Is there a special sendmail configuration to apply for avoiding this problem ?
 
Thanks for your help and have a nice day.
 

Jean Berthold 

Energie Ouest Suisse (EOS)

Administrateur Syst?mes

Direction op?rationnelle

Ch. de Mornex 10/CP 570

CH - 1001 Lausanne
T?l     : + 41 (0)21 341 24 58

fax     : + 41 (0)21 341 20 57

Courriel: jean.berthold at eosholding.ch

WEB: http://www.eosholding.ch <http://www.eosholding.ch/> 

 

Confidentialit?

Ce message est uniquement destin? ? la / aux personne/s ? laquelle/auxquelles il est adress?. Toutes divulgation, copie ou autre usage d'un message et de ses annexes par une personne non autoris?e est strictement interdit. Si vous recevez un tel message par erreur, nous vous remercions d'en aviser l'exp?diteur et de supprimer l'information de vos ordinateurs

 
 

From junkmailtrapenator at gmail.com  Thu Dec  7 14:41:07 2006
From: junkmailtrapenator at gmail.com (Matthew)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 08:41:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can mailman pickup mail via pop3
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00612061450v1847bbe6y52b52722158fe792@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cc1f9e5c0612061248n99e57b3qd28a153536d7ab6f@mail.gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00612061450v1847bbe6y52b52722158fe792@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cc1f9e5c0612070541s44b47544kbf1e49783836b377@mail.gmail.com>

That's usefull thanks!! I may be able to get it work.

However, is there anyway to do it without having the local MTA involved at
all?


On 12/6/06, Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 12/6/06, Matthew <junkmailtrapenator at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I would like to be able to have mailman pickup incoming mail to the list
> > via an external POP3 server (important)
> A program called 'fetchmail' can... fetch mail, from a POP3 server and
> deliver it using the local MTA. It's pretty easy to set up.
>
> > and submit it out to the
> > list via an external SMTP server (not as important).
> Mailman can do this natively. It's pretty trivial; you just change the
> SMTPHOST variable in your mm_cfg.py appropriately.
> Alternatively, you can set up the MTA on the mailman machine (FWIW, I
> recommend Postfix) to deliver via a smart host. This is also pretty
> easy to do.
>
>
> --
> - Patrick Bogen
>

From doug at sbscomp.net  Thu Dec  7 16:23:49 2006
From: doug at sbscomp.net (Douglas Phillips)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 09:23:49 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with umbrella lists
In-Reply-To: <71c548c20612061231q6f8bada8k195674712b7de313@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0MKp2t-1GsL6O2hJ3-0003uo@mrelay.perfora.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

> I was wondering if someone could help me with an issue I'm having.
> We're trying to set up an umbrella list (I think that's the term).

> For example, we have lists:
>    b at foo.com
>    c at foo.com
>    d at foo.com
>    and so on...

> and a at foo.com's members are:
>    b at foo.com
>    c at foo.com
>    d at foo.com
>    and so on...

> And all the lists allow non-members to post. But when we send an email to
a at foo.com, the admins and moderators for the child lists get an 
> email saying they need to approve the post. I've scoured the admin
interface options, but I can't seem to figure it out. Any help would be 
> appreciated.

Paul,

I've got several lists set up in such a way, and here's what I've had to do:

* For lists that strip sender information (ie a at foo.com), place the list
address in the "Non-member addresses allowed to post" under Privacy->Sender
Filters
* For normal lists, place the email addresses of authorized posters in the
non-member addresses. (I think I also put the list address in just to make
sure)
* Also, I had to place the parent list (ie a at foo.com) in the "Alias names
which qualify as explicit to or cc names" under Privacy->Recipient Filters

Hope this helps.  If you need assistance with this, I'll be glad to help you
in any way.

- --
Douglas G. Phillips
Simple Business Solutions


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP Desktop 9.0.2 (Build 2424)
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=R8W8
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Dec  7 16:51:34 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 09:51:34 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can mailman pickup mail via pop3
In-Reply-To: <cc1f9e5c0612070541s44b47544kbf1e49783836b377@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cc1f9e5c0612061248n99e57b3qd28a153536d7ab6f@mail.gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00612061450v1847bbe6y52b52722158fe792@mail.gmail.com>
	<cc1f9e5c0612070541s44b47544kbf1e49783836b377@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00612070751h55bcf1b3lcc51c2c806032088@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/7/06, Matthew <junkmailtrapenator at gmail.com> wrote:
> However, is there anyway to do it without having the local MTA involved at
> all?

fetchmail could theoretically be configured to deliver directly to
mailman's wrappers. However, I think it'd be much easier to use
fetchmail as it's designed (i.e., to deliver to the local MTA), and
then use the MTA to deliver to mailman- a configuration that is much
more mature and which we can much more easily support.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Dec  7 17:51:51 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 10:51:51 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email arrives after a long delay
In-Reply-To: <C02FA870DECC5F4A933E05E3A37F441720A699@SWEXCH.sila.local>
References: <C02FA870DECC5F4A933E05E3A37F441720A699@SWEXCH.sila.local>
Message-ID: <p06240500c19df09e625e@[10.0.1.11]>

At 9:34 AM +0100 12/7/06, BERTHOLD Jean wrote:

>  I have a configuration problem.
>  All my lists works correctly excepted that the emails arrives with
>  a delay of 10 minutes on the mailman server.

In the world of Internet e-mail, ten minutes is nothing.  In fact, 
that's pretty damn fast.

>  Dec 06 12:49:49 2006 (4144) post to fpbg-dtr from
>  jean.berthold at eosholding.ch, size=1880,
>  message-id=<C02FA870DECC5F4A933E05E3A37F441720A630 at SWEXCH.sila.local,
>  success
>
>  Dec 06 13:08:18 2006 (4144) post to fpbg-dtr from
>  jean.berthold at eosholding.ch, size=1875,
>  message-id=<C02FA870DECC5F4A933E05E3A37F441720A634 at SWEXCH.sila.local,
>  success

Okay, so here we have two different messages coming into Mailman from 
you.  So that we can make it easy to identify them, let's call them 
"630" and "634", which comes from the last three digits of the 
Message-ID field before the at-symbol.

>  Dec 06 12:49:49 2006 (4144)
>  <C02FA870DECC5F4A933E05E3A37F441720A630 at SWEXCH.sila.local> smtp to
>  fpbg-dtr for 1 recips, completed in 0.318 seconds

Okay, so we see that 630 came into Mailman from the MTA at 12:49:49 
and went back out to the MTA in less than a second.  That's good.

>  Dec  6 12:48:46 bahamas sendmail[16562]: [ID 801593 mail.warning]
>  kB6BcXf1016562: collect: premature EOM: unexpected close
>  Dec  6 12:48:46 bahamas sendmail[16562]: [ID 801593 mail.notice]
>  kB6BcXf1016562: collect: unexpected close on connection from
>  swexch01lpro.sila.local, sender=<CheckTpsAckCnfMailTask at sila.local
>  Dec  6 12:48:46 bahamas sendmail[16562]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
>  kB6BcXf1016562: from=<CheckTpsAckCnfMailTask at sila.local>, size=1217,
>  class=0, nrcpts=1, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4,
>  relay=swexch01lpro.sila.local [172.25.2.76]

These are signs that your Exchange server is screwing up the SMTP protocol.

>  Dec  6 12:49:46 bahamas sendmail[16721]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
>  kB6BnkRQ016721: from=<Jean.BERTHOLD at eosholding.ch>, size=1315,
>  class=0, nrcpts=1,
>  msgid=<C02FA870DECC5F4A933E05E3A37F441720A630 at SWEXCH.sila.local>,
>  proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=swexch01lpro.sila.local [172.25.2.76]

Okay, so here is 630 coming into the system from Exchange.  Note that 
the sendmail queue-id in this case is kB6BnkRQ016721.  This is how we 
tie other log entries together back to this same message -- by the 
sendmail queue-id.

>  Dec  6 12:49:47 bahamas sendmail[16722]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
>  kB6BnkRQ016721: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post fpbg-dtr",
>  ctladdr=<fpbg-dtr at bahamas.sila.local> (1/0), delay=00:00:01,
>  xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, pri=31536, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent

Okay, so here is sendmail saying that it has now sent 630 to Mailman. 
We know that it's what we're calling message 630 because we see the 
same sendmail queue-id, namely kB6BnkRQ016721.

Note that Mailman says that it finished getting this message about 
two seconds later (at 12:49:49), and that Mailman then sends that 
message back to the MTA in less than a second (still 12:49:49).

>  Dec  6 12:49:49 bahamas sendmail[16725]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
>  kB6Bnnn6016725: from=<fpbg-dtr-bounces at bahamas.sila.local>,
>  size=1880, class=-30, nrcpts=1,
>  msgid=<C02FA870DECC5F4A933E05E3A37F441720A630 at SWEXCH.sila.local>,
>  proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]

Okay, so here is 630 having come back out of Mailman, and going into 
the MTA to be delivered to the recipient.  Note that the sendmail 
queue-id is now kB6Bnnn6016725, because as far as sendmail is 
concerned this is a totally different message.  Sendmail doesn't know 
that the content is exactly the same, and that what has happened is 
that the message has come through sendmail, into Mailman, and then 
back out again.  Sendmail sees the inbound and outbound legs as being 
two totally separate messages.

Any further delay is totally and completely out of the hands of 
Mailman.  There is absolutely nothing that we can do to help.

>  Dec  6 13:08:20 bahamas sendmail[17179]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
>  kB6C8Kge017177: to=<jean.berthold at eosholding.ch>, delay=00:00:00,
>  xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=esmtp, pri=176820, relay=mta0.eosholding.ch.
>  [193.8.222.23], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (Ok: queued as 360A520C03B)

Dunno what message this is, but it doesn't look like it's 630.  Note 
that the sendmail queue-id is different -- Message 630 came in with 
queue-id kB6Bnnn6016725, and this has queue-id kB6C8Kge017177.  So, 
it looks like there are some log entries missing.

>  Dec  6 13:08:21 bahamas sendmail[17180]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
>  kB6C8LhF017180: from=<fpbg-dct-bounces at bahamas.sila.local>, size=2777,
>  class=-30, nrcpts=1,
>  msgid=<-227556877.1165399238285.JavaMail.javamailuser at localhost>,
>  proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
>  Dec  6 13:08:21 bahamas sendmail[17182]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
>  kB6C8LhF017180: to=<jean.berthold at eosholding.ch>, delay=00:00:00,
>  xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=esmtp, pri=176777, relay=mta0.eosholding.ch.
>  [193.8.222.23], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (Ok: queued as 5E95B20C053)

Okay, so this is a totally different message.  Different Message-id, 
different sendmail queue-id.  Apparently completely unrelated.

>  As you can see, there is some warning with sendmail ( [ID
>  801593 mail.warning] kB6BcXf1016562: collect: premature EOM:
>  unexpected close )

Yup.  That's a sign that your Exchange server is screwing up the SMTP 
dialog to sendmail.  Get your Exchange admin to fix the Exchange 
server.

>  Mailman is 2.1.8 release and apache is running on release 2.

Version 2.1.8 had security issues.  Upgrade to 2.1.9, or risk having 
your server get compromised by an attacker.

>  Is there a special sendmail configuration to apply for avoiding 
>this problem ?

Nope.  From what I can see, this delay is completely and totally out 
of the hands of either Mailman or sendmail.  Looks to me like the 
delay is somewhere else entirely.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec  7 18:14:27 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 09:14:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] conversion
In-Reply-To: <007901c71966$8b42fc10$4af39280@oitlan.oit.ohiostate.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612070914270620a82988e7@msapiro>

Melinda wrote:

>I could use some pointers in my conversion from Listproc to Mailman.   I am
>also going from a Solaris machine to a Redhat Linux.   I am very very new to
>Unix, Linux and could use some help in my conversion over to the new machine
>with Mailman.   How exactly can I get my old Listproc Lists merged over to
>this new mailman machine.  How does mailman get its address?  What will
>happen to my old address of the old list when created with the new list?
>Can I keep them the same??


This question is so broad as to be almost beyond the scope of this
list. I'll just say a few things.

First, I know nothing about Listproc so I can't comment in how Listproc
settings/configurations map to Mailman.

As far as moving lists is concerned, you have three main areas of
concern - list behavior (configuration), membership and archives. As I
said, I can't speak about mapping behavior as I don't know Listproc.
For membership, you need to be able to export a flat file of members
(or two separate files of regular and digest members) in a standard
format like

  Users Name <user at example.com>
  ...

and this can be easily used to populate the Mailman list.

List archives need to be exported as a flat file in *nix mbox format,
and this can be used to create a Mailman archive.

For list addresses, Mailman works in conjunction with an MTA (Sendmail,
Postfix, Exim, etc.) which receives mail sent to a particular domain
or domains and uses aliases or other methods to determine whether the
local part of the address is a mailman address and if so, delivers the
mail to Mailman by piping it to Mailman's mail wrapper.

Each list has a set of addresses. The list posting address for a list
named test in the example.com domain is test at example.com. Every list
also has 9 other associated addresses, in this example they are
test-bounces at example.com, test-admin at example.com (deprecated),
test-owner at example.com, test-request at example.com,
test-confirm at example.com, test-join at example.com,
test-subscribe at example.com, test-leave at example.com and
test-unsubscribe at example.com for various purposes.

If your old domain is going to map to your new machine, you should be
able to keep the same list addresses.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From deepali at infocypher.com  Thu Dec  7 18:52:38 2006
From: deepali at infocypher.com (deepali)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 12:52:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email Command Confirmations
In-Reply-To: <24E1A256-6514-4BED-A87D-CA064390A1B3@infocypher.com>
References: <24E1A256-6514-4BED-A87D-CA064390A1B3@infocypher.com>
Message-ID: <D35BD4CE-44E0-4D78-8FFC-EDEA1CE9DC6B@infocypher.com>

I figured out how to upgrade Mailman from 2.1.5 to 2.1.6 on Mac OS X  
Server 10.4.8.

I followed the instructions for the patch.  It does not work.  Has  
anyone had better success with it and can anyone point me in the  
right direction?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

- Deepali



On Dec 5, 2006, at 2:09 PM, deepali wrote:

> Dear List,
>
> I recently went to the archives to see if there was a way to turn  
> off the email command confirmations, and I came across the email  
> thread below.
>
> I looked at the patch, was able to change the code, but I am still  
> getting email command confirmations.  I am guessing that it is  
> because I am not doing something right, since I am new to using  
> Mailman and know very little about Python.  So, I have a few  
> questions.
>
> 1 - Does this patch work on Mailman 2.1.5?  (This is the version  
> that comes with Mac OS Tiger Server.)  If not, does anyone have  
> instructions on how to upgrade on OS X Server?  Does 2.1.9 still  
> need this patch?
>
> 2 - In the patch, it says to set RESPOND_TO_SUCCESSFUL_CONFIRM =  
> Yes.  But in the code, it looks for (not  
> mm_cfg.RESPOND_TO_SUCCESSFUL_CONFIRM).  If I don't want the  
> confirmations, shouldn't I set RESPOND_TO_SUCCESSFUL_CONFIRM = No?
>
> 3 - Do I have to compile the code after I change it?  Do I have to  
> recreate the list to make the changes work?
>
> My client is waiting on this fix before they go live with a new web  
> application, so any advice would be greatly appreciated!
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Deepali
>
>
>
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
> >Ben Swihart wrote:
> >>
> >>When users subscribe, I like sending them a "welcome" e-mail with
> >>introductions,
> >>instructions, etc.  However, if you send an e-mail to [EMAIL  
> PROTECTED],
> >>we are getting this back:
> >>
> >>"The results of your email command are provided below. Attached  
> is your
> >>original message.
> >>
> >>- Results:
> >>    Subscription request succeeded.
> >>
> >>- Done."
> >>
> >>Is there a way to disable command result notifications?
> >
> >
> >Attached is a patch against Mailman 2.1.6 to do this. The line  
> numbers
> >will need adjusting for other releases.
>
>
> BTW, the command results should not be sent if a welcome will be sent
> (send_welcome_msg on General Options is Yes) even without the patch.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
>


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec  7 19:36:24 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 10:36:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mails send from a webmail system dont get a
 Subject_prefix if there are umlauts
In-Reply-To: <45751B7B.5090400@filmakademie.de>
References: <45751B7B.5090400@filmakademie.de>
Message-ID: <45785F28.1040004@value.net>

G?tz Reinicke wrote:
> 
> recently we noticed, that mails send from our webmailsystem TWIG 
> containing a german umlaut in the subject aren't getting a 
> Subject_prefix from maliman. Mails from other mailclients do get the 
> Subject_prefix.
> 
> The problem seams, that twig isn't encoding the subject correctly, so it 
> get invalid and thats why mailman isn't setting a Subject_prefix.
> 
> Is there a way to get mailman setting the Subject_prefix?

Mailman does a lot of processing to try to properly insert the 
subject_prefix. I'm not surprised that something fails if the incoming 
subject is not properly encoded.

I am able to duplicate the problem and will look at it further, but the 
real solution is to use MUAs that create standards conformant messages

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec  7 19:55:36 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 10:55:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email Command Confirmations
In-Reply-To: <D35BD4CE-44E0-4D78-8FFC-EDEA1CE9DC6B@infocypher.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006120710553606058d06eae1@msapiro>

deepali wrote:

>I figured out how to upgrade Mailman from 2.1.5 to 2.1.6 on Mac OS X  
>Server 10.4.8.


If you are going to upgrade, it would be much better to upgrade to
2.1.9 which would be the same process if you are upgrading from source.


>I followed the instructions for the patch.  It does not work.  Has  
>anyone had better success with it and can anyone point me in the  
>right direction?


See below.


>On Dec 5, 2006, at 2:09 PM, deepali wrote:
>
>> Dear List,
>>
>> I recently went to the archives to see if there was a way to turn  
>> off the email command confirmations, and I came across the email  
>> thread below.
>>
>> I looked at the patch, was able to change the code, but I am still  
>> getting email command confirmations.  I am guessing that it is  
>> because I am not doing something right, since I am new to using  
>> Mailman and know very little about Python.  So, I have a few  
>> questions.
>>
>> 1 - Does this patch work on Mailman 2.1.5?  (This is the version  
>> that comes with Mac OS Tiger Server.)  If not, does anyone have  
>> instructions on how to upgrade on OS X Server?  Does 2.1.9 still  
>> need this patch?


The patch should work on 2.1.5 (with possible line number changes). If
you want the functionality of the patch, it is required even in 2.1.9
(with possible line number changes).


>> 2 - In the patch, it says to set RESPOND_TO_SUCCESSFUL_CONFIRM =  
>> Yes.  But in the code, it looks for (not  
>> mm_cfg.RESPOND_TO_SUCCESSFUL_CONFIRM).  If I don't want the  
>> confirmations, shouldn't I set RESPOND_TO_SUCCESSFUL_CONFIRM = No?


The patch sets 'RESPOND_TO_SUCCESSFUL_CONFIRM = Yes' in Defaults.py.in
(which configure uses to make Defaults.py) in order to make the
default behavior unchanged from that without the patch.

To enable the function, you would then put
'RESPOND_TO_SUCCESSFUL_CONFIRM = No' in mm_cfg.py.


>> 3 - Do I have to compile the code after I change it?  Do I have to  
>> recreate the list to make the changes work?


As Brad said in another reply, you have to either 'restart' or 'stop'
and 'start' Mailman. When this is done, the patched modules will be
reimported at which point, Python will detect they've been changed and
recompile them.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec  7 20:24:30 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 11:24:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages
In-Reply-To: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>

Kory Wheatley wrote:
>
>I'm running Mailman 2.1.6 is there a script you can run to automatically 
>remove all archive messages from a list?


I'm not sure what you mean by automatically.

You can remove all messages from a list's pipermail archive by

bin/arch --wipe listname /dev/null

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Thu Dec  7 21:21:42 2006
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 15:21:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
References: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
	<PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Mark Sapiro (msapiro at value.net):
> Kory Wheatley wrote:
> >
> >I'm running Mailman 2.1.6 is there a script you can run to automatically 
> >remove all archive messages from a list?
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by automatically.
> 
> You can remove all messages from a list's pipermail archive by
> 
> bin/arch --wipe listname /dev/null

What, "rm -rf" not good enough for you?

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
10 ways to stop users mistaking you for a normal person (4): When booting
a workstation, shout out all console output 1/2 a second before it
appears.  Do this with your eyes closed and fists clenched.  -- Steve Mitchell

From tmz at pobox.com  Thu Dec  7 21:37:41 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 15:37:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages
In-Reply-To: <20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>
References: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
	<PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
	<20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Paul Tomblin wrote:
> Quoting Mark Sapiro (msapiro at value.net):
[...]
>> You can remove all messages from a list's pipermail archive by
>> 
>> bin/arch --wipe listname /dev/null
> 
> What, "rm -rf" not good enough for you?

:-)

You do have to know the location of the list archives with rm whereas
with bin/arch you don't.  And if you put a typo into bin/arch it can
at worst wipe out the archives of the wrong list, not large chunks of
your file system.

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
What do Atheists scream during sex?
'Ohhh, chemical chance, chemical chance'
    -- Bill Hicks

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 542 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20061207/10aceb12/attachment.pgp 

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec  7 21:30:05 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 12:30:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mails send from a webmail system dont get a
 Subject_prefix if there are umlauts
In-Reply-To: <45785F28.1040004@value.net>
References: <45751B7B.5090400@filmakademie.de> <45785F28.1040004@value.net>
Message-ID: <457879CD.2030305@value.net>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> I am able to duplicate the problem and will look at it further, but the 
> real solution is to use MUAs that create standards conformant messages


If you are unable to convince people to use compliant MUAs, you can 
patch Mailman in a couple of different ways to address this problem.

If you are willing to have the non-ascii characters replaced by '?' in 
the subject, you can patch Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py as follows 
(line numbers for Mailman 2.1.9)

--- Copy of CookHeaders.py      2006-09-25 11:56:24.265625000 -0700
+++ CookHeaders.py      2006-12-07 12:13:10.011544900 -0800
@@ -257,7 +257,7 @@
      # range.  It is safe to use unicode string when manupilating header
      # contents with re module.  It would be best to return unicode in
      # ch_oneline() but here is temporary solution.
-    subject = unicode(subject, cset)
+    subject = unicode(subject, cset, 'replace')
      # If the subject_prefix contains '%d', it is replaced with the
      # mailing list sequential number.  Sequential number format allows
      # '%d' or '%05d' like pattern.

In your case, since the unencoded characters in the subject are probably 
iso-8859-1 characters, you could instead (or in addition) apply (watch 
for wrapped line below)

--- Copy of CookHeaders.py      2006-09-25 11:56:24.265625000 -0700
+++ CookHeaders.py      2006-12-07 12:13:10.011544900 -0800
@@ -337,7 +337,7 @@
          # MUA deliberately add trailing spaces when composing return
          # message.
          d = [(s.rstrip(), c) for (s,c) in d]
-        cset = 'us-ascii'
+        cset = 'iso-8859-1'
          for x in d:
              # search for no-None charset
              if x[1]:
@@ -349,4 +349,4 @@
          return oneline.encode(cset, 'replace'), cset
      except (LookupError, UnicodeError, ValueError, HeaderParseError):
          # possibly charset problem. return with undecoded string in 
one line.
-        return ''.join(headerstr.splitlines()), 'us-ascii'
+        return ''.join(headerstr.splitlines()), 'iso-8859-1'



-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Dec  7 22:04:27 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 15:04:27 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages
In-Reply-To: <20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
References: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
	<PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
	<20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <p06240500c19e3155b3b0@[10.0.1.11]>

At 3:37 PM -0500 12/7/06, Todd Zullinger wrote:

>  You do have to know the location of the list archives with rm whereas
>  with bin/arch you don't.  And if you put a typo into bin/arch it can
>  at worst wipe out the archives of the wrong list, not large chunks of
>  your file system.

Everyone raise your hand if you have accidentally done the command:

	# rm -rf / path/to/file/structure/you/really/want/to/delete

Or, managed to do the right command on the wrong machine (where 
you've connected to one system, then from there to another, etc...).

/me raises both hands


There's lots of other stupid sysadmin tricks.  Trust me, I've learned 
the hard way.

Tools like bin/arch are much safer, albeit also slower.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From ptomblin at xcski.com  Thu Dec  7 22:20:37 2006
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 16:20:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c19e3155b3b0@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
	<PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
	<20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<p06240500c19e3155b3b0@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <20061207212037.GA4602@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Brad Knowles (brad at shub-internet.org):
> Tools like bin/arch are much safer, albeit also slower.

I've lost more files to badly written programs than to PEBKAC errors.  So
I'd be more inclined to trust "rm" than "arch".

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
"This also tells they understand our language. They are just not willing to
speak to us using it." "Who knew they were French?" - Babylon 5

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec  7 22:27:26 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 13:27:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c19e3155b3b0@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612071327260777a8298983@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>Everyone raise your hand if you have accidentally done the command:
>
>	# rm -rf / path/to/file/structure/you/really/want/to/delete

Or
   rm -rf /path/to/something<star>
and typed it
   rm -rf /path/to/something <star>

Those pesky spaces - always raising havoc...

And that darned command shell - tell it something so obviously wrong
and it goes ahead and does it anyway, every time.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec  7 22:33:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 13:33:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages
In-Reply-To: <20061207212037.GA4602@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612071333080652a82988f4@msapiro>

Paul Tomblin wrote:
>
>I've lost more files to badly written programs than to PEBKAC errors.  So
>I'd be more inclined to trust "rm" than "arch".


This thread is fun, but just to be clear, I responded the way I did to
the OP because the OP was not at all clear about what was wanted, so I
gave an answer that would not remove the list.mbox file in case it was
still wanted and would not remove structure that might be required to
continue archiving new posts.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From alan at patriot.net  Thu Dec  7 22:57:16 2006
From: alan at patriot.net (Alan McConnell)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 16:57:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
References: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
	<PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
	<20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <20061207215716.GB4057@patriot.net>

On Thu, Dec 07, 2006 at 03:37:41PM -0500, Todd Zullinger wrote:
>
> > What, "rm -rf" not good enough for you?
	<G>  Yeah, yeah.

Meanwhile, I am adminning(sp?), through my ISP, a new but quite active
E-list.  But their mailman install is incomplete; they haven't put in
Pipermail(about which I know _nothing_).  I'm saving all the messages --
mbox format -- and have the hope that when the Pipermail archiving
program is installed, I will be able to collect, collate, shuffle,
and massage these messages and then ship them off to the new very
skilful tech staff that my ISP is allegedly hiring, and they will
be able to slip this collection adroitly into place.  And it will
be as if archiving was always in place . . .

Can this be done?  or am I dreaming wild dreams?

Best wishes,

Alan

-- 
Alan McConnell :  http://patriot.net/users/alan
    "The intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."
    Impeachment proceedings should be started immediately.

From ptomblin at xcski.com  Thu Dec  7 23:22:06 2006
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 17:22:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <20061207215716.GB4057@patriot.net>
References: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
	<PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
	<20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<20061207215716.GB4057@patriot.net>
Message-ID: <20061207222206.GA10945@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Alan McConnell (alan at patriot.net):
> Meanwhile, I am adminning(sp?), through my ISP, a new but quite active
> E-list.  But their mailman install is incomplete; they haven't put in
> Pipermail(about which I know _nothing_).  I'm saving all the messages --
> mbox format -- and have the hope that when the Pipermail archiving
> program is installed, I will be able to collect, collate, shuffle,
> and massage these messages and then ship them off to the new very
> skilful tech staff that my ISP is allegedly hiring, and they will
> be able to slip this collection adroitly into place.  And it will
> be as if archiving was always in place . . .
> 
> Can this be done?  or am I dreaming wild dreams?

I've just spent two days manipulating a bunch of mbox files into archives.
Let me tell you how it goes:

1. Blow away the html archives.  You may prefer to use that arch command
we were just discussing, but I used "rm -rf
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/<listname>"

2. Stop mailman's qrunners using "/etc/init.d/mailman stop"

3. Run bin/arch on the huge mbox file.

4. Discover that bin/arch is consuming all the memory and swap on the
system, and your system has ground to a halt.

5. Kill bin/arch.  Wait for the system to recover the swap space.  At this
point, I should have rebooted because I think this is when my list
config.pck file got corrupted.  Restore the config.pck file from backup.

6. Discover an awk script in the mailman archives that will split the mbox
archive into managable chunks.  Fix it so that it splits them into 500
message chunks instead of the 80 message chunks it defaults to.

7. Run bin/arch on all the chunks one at a time.

8. Discover that the mbox file had a bunch of un-escaped "From " lines
that confused bin/arch and so you have a bunch of half-articles in today's
archive page that shouldn't be there.  Run bin/cleanarch to fix them, blow
away the html archives, and then resplit the mbox file and run bin/arch on
the splits.

9. Discover that in early 2000 some members of your mailing list were
using a MUA that set year to "100" in the "Date: " header, which confused
bin/arch.  Fix those up with sed, then blow away the html archives, then
resplit the mbox and run bin/arch on the splits.

10. Discover a couple of "From " lines that bin/cleanarch didn't fix
because somebody was quoting the mail headers of another message.  Fix
them with sed, then blow away the html archives, then resplit the mbox and
run bin/arch on the splits.

11. Discover you missed a "From " line in one message, say "to hell with
it", restart mailman, and go to bed.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
"The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the
instruments of tyranny at home." - James Madison

From ptomblin at xcski.com  Thu Dec  7 23:26:51 2006
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 17:26:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <20061207222206.GA10945@allhats.xcski.com>
References: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
	<PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
	<20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<20061207215716.GB4057@patriot.net>
	<20061207222206.GA10945@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <20061207222651.GB10945@allhats.xcski.com>

I just checked my blog, and found I message a step:

Quoting Paul Tomblin (ptomblin at xcski.com):
> I've just spent two days manipulating a bunch of mbox files into archives.
> Let me tell you how it goes:
> 
> 1. Blow away the html archives.  You may prefer to use that arch command
> we were just discussing, but I used "rm -rf
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/<listname>"
> 
> 2. Stop mailman's qrunners using "/etc/init.d/mailman stop"
> 
> 3. Run bin/arch on the huge mbox file.

3a. Discover that bin/arch is dying on lines in the mbox where somebody's
broken MUA was putting in a Content-Type: header with a charset of
".chrsc".  Use sed to change that to "us-ascii".  Delete the html archives
again and start bin/arch again.

> 4. Discover that bin/arch is consuming all the memory and swap on the
> system, and your system has ground to a halt.



-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
    -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

From tonyakay13 at hotmail.com  Thu Dec  7 23:27:17 2006
From: tonyakay13 at hotmail.com (tonya kay)
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 17:27:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] double attachments
Message-ID: <BAY101-F1956B325332A8E4A162478D3DC0@phx.gbl>

Hello!  I am new to the Mailman Mailing List.

My email client is Mac's Mail, running on the Mac OSX operating system.

When I send an email to my Mailman mailing list, the .jpg files I attach are 
duplicated in the recipient's email.  How can I assure that only one of each 
attachment is received?

Thank you.

Tonya Kay
http://tonyakay.com

_________________________________________________________________
Share your latest news with your friends with the Windows Live Spaces 
friends module. 
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mk


From jeffrey at goldmark.org  Thu Dec  7 23:56:29 2006
From: jeffrey at goldmark.org (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 16:56:29 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] double attachments
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F1956B325332A8E4A162478D3DC0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY101-F1956B325332A8E4A162478D3DC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <53424F79-8CE0-416A-9F9F-E9DA905248BD@goldmark.org>

On Dec 7, 2006, at 4:27 PM, tonya kay wrote:

> Hello!  I am new to the Mailman Mailing List.
>
> My email client is Mac's Mail, running on the Mac OSX operating  
> system.
>
> When I send an email to my Mailman mailing list, the .jpg files I  
> attach are
> duplicated in the recipient's email.  How can I assure that only  
> one of each
> attachment is received?

I use Apple's Mail.app (2.1) and have not had this problem with PDF  
attachments (the only attachments I've ever sent to a mailing list).

Can you double check your Sent folder to make sure that the  
attachment really is only in there once for what you sent?

Also never check "Send Windows Friendly Attachment" box.  That may do  
something that shows up like doubling the attachment.

-j


-- 
Jeffrey Goldberg                        http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/


From barry at python.org  Fri Dec  8 00:04:55 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 18:04:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <20061207222206.GA10945@allhats.xcski.com>
References: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
	<PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
	<20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<20061207215716.GB4057@patriot.net>
	<20061207222206.GA10945@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <C7181EBB-4955-4ED5-88B2-CB41C10EC8CB@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Dec 7, 2006, at 5:22 PM, Paul Tomblin wrote:

> I've just spent two days manipulating a bunch of mbox files into  
> archives.
> Let me tell you how it goes:

[Screams of pain omitted]

Have I mentioned recently how long I've been looking for a volunteer  
to help make all this not suck?  ;}  Pipermail is just one of those  
things that people either live with or ditch.

- -Barry



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin)

iQCVAwUBRXieF3EjvBPtnXfVAQJBhQQAizP4wyVUW5elAghpRvNPbs/nPqwF/0NY
3J5dT8xwNCU2RPMPTA++3HjYZiWnkpkqpZHEMYjAdzLzQErhPPFwsJeXlslpmZMt
Lt6e20JzdzVo3s1mZoWRiOmSCxibB8sDpoikqSOiCaCjYwOzkWGZO3/eVkqgRsyL
+RVqWL7/IqA=
=07al
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  8 00:23:11 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 15:23:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] double attachments
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F1956B325332A8E4A162478D3DC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC17602006120715231107777a751df4@msapiro>

tonya kay wrote:
>
>My email client is Mac's Mail, running on the Mac OSX operating system.
>
>When I send an email to my Mailman mailing list, the .jpg files I attach are 
>duplicated in the recipient's email.  How can I assure that only one of each 
>attachment is received?


I suspect this also happens when you send directly to user's whose MUAs
don't understand Mac attachments. I think Mac Mail is doing this, not
Mailman.

If in Mac Mail you select edit->attachments->Always Send Windows
Friendly Attachments or simple be sure the "Send Windows Friendly
Attachments" check box is checked in the file attach dialog when you
attach the file, I think you won't have this problem. The down side of
this is your Mac recipients won't get the 'resource fork' of the file
which may contain a custom icon or similar information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Fri Dec  8 00:35:42 2006
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 18:35:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <20061207222206.GA10945@allhats.xcski.com>
References: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
	<PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
	<20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<20061207215716.GB4057@patriot.net>
	<20061207222206.GA10945@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <20061207233542.GA22690@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Paul Tomblin (ptomblin at xcski.com):
> 8. Discover that the mbox file had a bunch of un-escaped "From " lines
> that confused bin/arch and so you have a bunch of half-articles in today's
> archive page that shouldn't be there.  Run bin/cleanarch to fix them, blow
> away the html archives, and then resplit the mbox file and run bin/arch on
> the splits.

Speaking of which, is there any way to modify Mailman so that when it puts
a mail message in the mbox, it pre-escapes the "^From " lines in the
message?  Mailman knows the message boundaries at that point, so it would
be nice if it were to put it in a format that bin/arch can handle.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
Every fleeting thought you've ever had in your life, no matter how bizarre,
is someone's lifelong obsession.  And he has a website.
              -- Skif's Internet Theorem

From ptomblin at xcski.com  Fri Dec  8 00:37:12 2006
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 18:37:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <C7181EBB-4955-4ED5-88B2-CB41C10EC8CB@python.org>
References: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
	<PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
	<20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<20061207215716.GB4057@patriot.net>
	<20061207222206.GA10945@allhats.xcski.com>
	<C7181EBB-4955-4ED5-88B2-CB41C10EC8CB@python.org>
Message-ID: <20061207233712.GB22690@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Barry Warsaw (barry at python.org):
> [Screams of pain omitted]
> 
> Have I mentioned recently how long I've been looking for a volunteer  
> to help make all this not suck?  ;}  Pipermail is just one of those  
> things that people either live with or ditch.

I suppose it would be a good excuse to learn python.  But on the other
hand, I've been seriously considering moving to mhonarc.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
"Man in the tower, this is the man in the bird, I'm ready to go, so give me
the word."  "Man in the bird, this is the man in the tower, you sound funny,
delay's an hour." - Rod Machado

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  8 01:01:52 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 16:01:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] double attachments
In-Reply-To: <53424F79-8CE0-416A-9F9F-E9DA905248BD@goldmark.org>
Message-ID: <PC176020061207160152099543d5c737@msapiro>

Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:
>
>Also never check "Send Windows Friendly Attachment" box.  That may do  
>something that shows up like doubling the attachment.


I think you have it backwards. Checking the "Send Windows Friendly
Attachment" will not send the Mac 'resource' information. It is this
which shows up as a second file with non Mac aware MUAs. Also, It will
try to add an appropriate extension to the name of an attached file
the name of which on the Mac doesn't have an extension.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at python.org  Fri Dec  8 01:11:59 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 19:11:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <20061207233542.GA22690@allhats.xcski.com>
References: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
	<PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
	<20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<20061207215716.GB4057@patriot.net>
	<20061207222206.GA10945@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20061207233542.GA22690@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <93C901BE-9B28-404C-AA39-C028E2D90363@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Dec 7, 2006, at 6:35 PM, Paul Tomblin wrote:

> Quoting Paul Tomblin (ptomblin at xcski.com):
>> 8. Discover that the mbox file had a bunch of un-escaped "From "  
>> lines
>> that confused bin/arch and so you have a bunch of half-articles in  
>> today's
>> archive page that shouldn't be there.  Run bin/cleanarch to fix  
>> them, blow
>> away the html archives, and then resplit the mbox file and run bin/ 
>> arch on
>> the splits.
>
> Speaking of which, is there any way to modify Mailman so that when  
> it puts
> a mail message in the mbox, it pre-escapes the "^From " lines in the
> message?  Mailman knows the message boundaries at that point, so it  
> would
> be nice if it were to put it in a format that bin/arch can handle.

It already does escape From lines in the body of the message.  It  
does this by way of the email package's Generator class, which is  
instantiated with mangle_from_=True.

- -Barry

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin)

iQCVAwUBRXit1HEjvBPtnXfVAQI0vgP+I41D12kcFj93xX6VdvVjE1hT1n2NrkUC
GDg6iuc2hlWmY88jnCzxT/nF3mdhzswI8poPlbzcdpJUmQiZaRf0rhdgAiVqeCx2
89LUgE9bSVXphkhYnKfGAtWrefnmcDL2vXmS+afFGEXdQoZ0AU2ooxKFsW20H8Aq
QM3gMnlZcrE=
=KiEr
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From barry at python.org  Fri Dec  8 01:16:11 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 19:16:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <20061207233712.GB22690@allhats.xcski.com>
References: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
	<PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
	<20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<20061207215716.GB4057@patriot.net>
	<20061207222206.GA10945@allhats.xcski.com>
	<C7181EBB-4955-4ED5-88B2-CB41C10EC8CB@python.org>
	<20061207233712.GB22690@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <064F189B-5531-4AEF-8578-12EE5BEA62F0@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Dec 7, 2006, at 6:37 PM, Paul Tomblin wrote:

> Quoting Barry Warsaw (barry at python.org):
>> [Screams of pain omitted]
>>
>> Have I mentioned recently how long I've been looking for a volunteer
>> to help make all this not suck?  ;}  Pipermail is just one of those
>> things that people either live with or ditch.
>
> I suppose it would be a good excuse to learn python.  But on the other
> hand, I've been seriously considering moving to mhonarc.

And now you see why Pipermail never gets much better.  ;)

I'm not blaming you personally of course, it's just that I think when  
people feel enough pain from Pipermail, rather than try to scratch  
that itch, they'd rather spend the time integrating a better archiver.

I've always said that Pipermail is bundled solely to make it easy for  
people to have a complete solution out of the box.  I don't have much  
interest in bundling some other (non-Python) archiver with the source  
distro, although I'd have no problems with downstream packagers doing  
that if they wanted to.

- -Barry

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin)

iQCVAwUBRXiuy3EjvBPtnXfVAQLaBgP/cx/uEpTyG2/eVVoOTGE/NmDmwjV6bNMe
npWM5IDpQHQRMBXxEpnP82PYyQSTAmLWUOHrlMuUkTTRtisIQnGkTilEqDLa1f48
eNNFjFaxq3M0TegoBNSgslx7XNU7k1mdAcxee/6G8+5fytH/gbJmY2EmEZZtl7zo
T23PuNWAo1s=
=QVlR
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Dec  8 01:23:40 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 18:23:40 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <20061207215716.GB4057@patriot.net>
References: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
	<PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
	<20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<20061207215716.GB4057@patriot.net>
Message-ID: <p06240501c19e607e612c@[10.0.1.11]>

At 4:57 PM -0500 12/7/06, Alan McConnell wrote:

>  Meanwhile, I am adminning(sp?), through my ISP, a new but quite active
>  E-list.  But their mailman install is incomplete; they haven't put in
>  Pipermail(about which I know _nothing_).

Uh, what version of Mailman is that?  I thought that Mailman had 
fully integrated Pipermail along with the base code, for many years 
now?  Are they running Mailman 1.x or something?

>                                      I'm saving all the messages --
>  mbox format -- and have the hope that when the Pipermail archiving
>  program is installed, I will be able to collect, collate, shuffle,
>  and massage these messages and then ship them off to the new very
>  skilful tech staff that my ISP is allegedly hiring, and they will
>  be able to slip this collection adroitly into place.  And it will
>  be as if archiving was always in place . . .

So long as you save the messages in mbox format, and you have access 
to the command-line, you can always use the "arch" tool to import the 
old messages into the new archives.  The instructions for doing this 
kind of stuff are in the FAQ.

But if you don't have direct command-line access to the server, then 
you'll be dependant on the staff that do.  And from what you've 
described, that's really the crux of the problem you're already faced 
with.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Dec  8 01:26:18 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 18:26:18 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <20061207222206.GA10945@allhats.xcski.com>
References: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
	<PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
	<20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<20061207215716.GB4057@patriot.net>
	<20061207222206.GA10945@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <p06240502c19e612287b5@[10.0.1.11]>

At 5:22 PM -0500 12/7/06, Paul Tomblin wrote:

>  6. Discover an awk script in the mailman archives that will split the mbox
>  archive into managable chunks.  Fix it so that it splits them into 500
>  message chunks instead of the 80 message chunks it defaults to.

There's also the "formmail" tool from the procmail package.  That's 
probably more robust than the awk script you mention, takes up less 
memory, is faster, etc....  Of course, it also requires that you 
download and install at least that part of procmail, so it requires 
more work.

>  7. Run bin/arch on all the chunks one at a time.

Yeah, you want to run that tool on the chunks in order, otherwise I 
think that the message number generation scheme will at least get 
ugly, if not confused.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From ptomblin at xcski.com  Fri Dec  8 01:34:38 2006
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 19:34:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <93C901BE-9B28-404C-AA39-C028E2D90363@python.org>
References: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
	<PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
	<20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<20061207215716.GB4057@patriot.net>
	<20061207222206.GA10945@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20061207233542.GA22690@allhats.xcski.com>
	<93C901BE-9B28-404C-AA39-C028E2D90363@python.org>
Message-ID: <20061208003438.GA30566@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Barry Warsaw (barry at python.org):
> On Dec 7, 2006, at 6:35 PM, Paul Tomblin wrote:
> >Speaking of which, is there any way to modify Mailman so that when  it
> >puts a mail message in the mbox, it pre-escapes the "^From " lines in
> >the message?  Mailman knows the message boundaries at that point, so it
> >would be nice if it were to put it in a format that bin/arch can
> >handle.
> 
> It already does escape From lines in the body of the message.  It  
> does this by way of the email package's Generator class, which is  
> instantiated with mangle_from_=True.

Must be a newer version than the one in Debian stable.   I grepped for
"mangle" in /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/*, and didn't find it.  The parameter
does appear in /usr/lib/python2.3/email/Generator.py, but since I don't
know python I don't know how to pass it to it.  I'm guessing it has
something to do with changing the "g = Generator(fp)" and "g =
Generator(outfp)" lines in Mailman/ListAdmin.py or more likely the "g =
Generator(self.fp)" line in Mailman/Mailbox.py?  Is it as simple as
changing that last one to "g = Generator(self.fp,mangle_from_=True)"?

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
Do you have a point, or are you saving it for a special occasion?
              -- David P. Murphy

From brcisna at eazylivin.net  Fri Dec  8 01:47:34 2006
From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry R Cisna)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 18:47:34 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] change thread list most recent to top
Message-ID: <39670.192.168.254.3.1165538854.squirrel@www.eazylivin.net>

Hello List,

I posted here a few days ago and did not get any response. I've googled
and havent found a howto either.
How  do I change in MM the thread view, to make the most recent posts
appear at the top of the Archives page, rather than the most recent 
showing up at the bottom of the archives page?

MM 2.1.8
FC5

Any ideas appreciated.


Thanks,
Barry R Cisna

From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Fri Dec  8 02:09:57 2006
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 14:09:57 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reply from RedHat regarding patch for lost spam
	filters - no it is not in their RPM
Message-ID: <75CF552F30ECFA439D9B3008906F2A37010CDAEE@STAWINCOMAILCL1.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Hi All,

Regarding any of you out there running a RedHat Advanced Server 3 setup
with Mailman.

It seems RH's rpm lacks the patch so they have sent me instructions on
how to fix it....

8><----RedHat reply---------

Hey,

Thank you for contacting Red Hat support.

It doesn't look like the patch has been applied, however it did apply
cleanly to my system. If you download the patch from the website you
supplied you can apply it quite easily.

The file to patch is "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Gui/Privacy.py". The
command below will patch the file for you (assuming the patch is in your
home directory):

# cd /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Gui/
# patch -p0 < ~/Privacy.py.diff

The file is a python script, so there is no need to recompile or
anything, it should just start working (you may need to restart mailman
though).

Regards,

8><-----

regards


Steven Jones
Senior  Linux/Unix/San System Administrator
APG -Technology Integration Team
Victoria University of Wellington
Phone: +64 4 463 6272 Mobile: +64 27 563 6272 

 

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  8 02:48:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 17:48:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <20061208003438.GA30566@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006120717484303707cdfeffd@msapiro>

Paul Tomblin wrote:

>Quoting Barry Warsaw (barry at python.org):
>> 
>> It already does escape From lines in the body of the message.  It  
>> does this by way of the email package's Generator class, which is  
>> instantiated with mangle_from_=True.
>
>Must be a newer version than the one in Debian stable.   I grepped for
>"mangle" in /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/*, and didn't find it.  The parameter
>does appear in /usr/lib/python2.3/email/Generator.py, but since I don't
>know python I don't know how to pass it to it.  I'm guessing it has
>something to do with changing the "g = Generator(fp)" and "g =
>Generator(outfp)" lines in Mailman/ListAdmin.py or more likely the "g =
>Generator(self.fp)" line in Mailman/Mailbox.py?  Is it as simple as
>changing that last one to "g = Generator(self.fp,mangle_from_=True)"?


Yes it is.

And I think Barry may have misspoken as I don't think that change is in
the SVN trunk or Release_2_1-maint branch.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  8 02:59:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 17:59:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] change thread list most recent to top
In-Reply-To: <39670.192.168.254.3.1165538854.squirrel@www.eazylivin.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612071759160620c416009c@msapiro>

Barry R Cisna wrote:
>
>I posted here a few days ago and did not get any response.


There is a reply to your post at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-December/054727.html>


>I've googled
>and havent found a howto either.
>How  do I change in MM the thread view, to make the most recent posts
>appear at the top of the Archives page, rather than the most recent 
>showing up at the bottom of the archives page?


You would have to hack the archiver code, and I think it would be messy.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brcisna at eazylivin.net  Fri Dec  8 03:14:48 2006
From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry R Cisna)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 20:14:48 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] change thread list most recent to top
Message-ID: <57591.192.168.254.3.1165544088.squirrel@www.eazylivin.net>

Hi mark,

Barry R Cisna

From brcisna at eazylivin.net  Fri Dec  8 03:18:14 2006
From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry R Cisna)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 20:18:14 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] change thread list most recent to top
Message-ID: <57668.192.168.254.3.1165544294.squirrel@www.eazylivin.net>

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the response. Want I m wanting to do is show recent
threads,,the same as the other mailman list lines up most recent posts at
the top such as here:

http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

Ive seen various other lists have the thread/most recent at top,as well.
Dont know how they done it,,though?

Thanks again,,
Barry Cisna



Barry R Cisna

From tmz at pobox.com  Fri Dec  8 03:31:19 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 21:31:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] change thread list most recent to top
In-Reply-To: <57668.192.168.254.3.1165544294.squirrel@www.eazylivin.net>
References: <57668.192.168.254.3.1165544294.squirrel@www.eazylivin.net>
Message-ID: <20061208023119.GF16276@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Barry R Cisna wrote:
> Thanks for the response. Want I m wanting to do is show recent
> threads,,the same as the other mailman list lines up most recent
> posts at the top such as here:
> 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

I don't think that mail-archive.com uses pipermail as it's archiver.

I do think that the redhat.com lists do though.  You might ask on one
of those lists if anyone who has helped setup the list server can give
you tips (or patches) on achieving that setup.

Here's an example of the setup on redhat.com lists for those who
aren't familiar with them:

https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-laptop-list/2006-December/thread.html

Certainly looks like pipermail, doesn't it?

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
I never met a morphosis I didn't like.

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 542 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20061207/f2603c1c/attachment.pgp 

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  8 03:36:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 18:36:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] change thread list most recent to top
In-Reply-To: <57668.192.168.254.3.1165544294.squirrel@www.eazylivin.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612071836280495c868db6b@msapiro>

Barry R Cisna wrote:
>
>Thanks for the response. Want I m wanting to do is show recent
>threads,,the same as the other mailman list lines up most recent posts at
>the top such as here:
>
>http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/


mail-archive.com does not use the pipermail archiver that is packaged
with Mailman.

>Ive seen various other lists have the thread/most recent at top,as well.
>Dont know how they done it,,though?


If they are Mailman lists using pipermail, I think it must have been
done by hacking the code.

My own thought on this is it would be easier to figure out how to use
some other archiver such as MHonArc that might offer the features you
want and use that as your Mailman archiver through Mailman's external
archiver capability.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  8 03:46:18 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 18:46:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] change thread list most recent to top
In-Reply-To: <20061208023119.GF16276@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602006120718461806207a751d5e@msapiro>

Todd Zullinger wrote:
>
>I do think that the redhat.com lists do though.  You might ask on one
>of those lists if anyone who has helped setup the list server can give
>you tips (or patches) on achieving that setup.
>
>Here's an example of the setup on redhat.com lists for those who
>aren't familiar with them:
>
>https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-laptop-list/2006-December/thread.html
>
>Certainly looks like pipermail, doesn't it?


They are definitely Mailman lists, and the archives have a definite
pipermail look to them, but the various index pages and the individual
message headers and footers are significantly different from those of
the pipermail we distribute.

As you suggest, someone at RedHat may be able to provide more
information on this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brcisna at eazylivin.net  Fri Dec  8 04:10:08 2006
From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry R Cisna)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 21:10:08 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] change thread list most recent to top
Message-ID: <51069.192.168.254.3.1165547408.squirrel@www.eazylivin.net>

Hi Mark,

Thanks again, for the response. I'll have  a look at MHonArc. I didnt know
MM had the capability of using an external archiver. Maybe this is what
Ive seen at these other mailing lists that use mailman.
Ill check into it,

Thanks,

Barry R Cisna

From parallax at lafn.org  Thu Dec  7 22:14:58 2006
From: parallax at lafn.org (parallax at lafn.org)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 21:14:58 GMT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stop delivering ... problem with
	Approval.py?
Message-ID: <200612080514.kB85EuSN093511@zoot.lafn.org>

The mailman lists on my server have suddenly stopped delivering mail. The error 
of one of the messages is cut and paste below ... All the messages are being 
shunted off and not delivered when it reaches the Approval.py and has trouble 
inporting ...? 

 File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Approve.py", line 
28, in ?
   from email.Iterators import typed_subpart_iterator
ImportError: cannot import name typed_subpart_iterator

These are the first few lines from the Approval.py file (email.Iterators is 
located in mailman/pythonlib/email/): 

import re
from email.Iterators import typed_subpart_iterator
from Mailman import mm_cfg
from Mailman import Errors

Any help in solving this issue would be appreciated. Thanks!

/S

***** FULL ERROR LOG FOR ONE MESSAGE
Dec 07 19:11:09 2006 (20316) Traceback (most recent call last):
 File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 112, 
in _oneloop
   self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
 File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 170, 
in _onefile
   keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
 File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", 
line 130, in _dispose
   more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
 File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", 
line 150, in _dopipeline
   __import__(modname)
 File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Approve.py", line 
28, in ?
   from email.Iterators import typed_subpart_iterator
ImportError: cannot import name typed_subpart_iterator

Dec 07 19:11:09 2006 (20316) SHUNTING: 
1165536668.997515+23c357cc0271458d05b79dcd2a490bb937d5928e

---------------------------------------------
This message was sent using Endymion MailMan.
http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/



From richard.young at city-link.co.uk  Fri Dec  8 13:51:55 2006
From: richard.young at city-link.co.uk (Richard Young)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 12:51:55 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Domain Name Aliasing
Message-ID: <"H000007b00845857.1165582314.newemail.city-link.co.uk*"@MHS>

Hello,

 

At present I can send mail to a list using
?list_name at host.domain_name.co.uk?.

 

I want to be able to send mail to the same list using the name
?list_name at domain_name.co.uk?.

 

I am using mailman with sendmail on RHEL 4 OS. I think I need to alter
the /etc/mail/virtusertable and apply the change to sendmail.cf but I?m
not 100% sure.

 

Any tips on how I can achieve this?

 

Thanks,

 

 

Richard Young

IT Support Ananlyst

City Link - Head Office

Tel: 01932 822622

Email: richard.young at city-link.co.uk

www.city-link.co.uk

 



From alan at patriot.net  Fri Dec  8 13:52:33 2006
From: alan at patriot.net (Alan McConnell)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 07:52:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <p06240501c19e607e612c@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
	<PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
	<20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<20061207215716.GB4057@patriot.net>
	<p06240501c19e607e612c@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <20061208125233.GA2132@patriot.net>

On Thu, Dec 07, 2006 at 06:23:40PM -0600, Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 4:57 PM -0500 12/7/06, Alan McConnell wrote:
> 
> > Meanwhile, I am adminning(sp?), through my ISP, a new but quite active
> > E-list.  But their mailman install is incomplete; they haven't put in
> > Pipermail(about which I know _nothing_).
> 
> Uh, what version of Mailman is that?  I thought that Mailman had 
> fully integrated Pipermail along with the base code, for many years 
> now?  Are they running Mailman 1.x or something?
	mm 2.1.5 .  But under Debian, so it has experienced/endured the
	Debian security upgrade procedures.

> > and massage these messages and then ship them off to the new very
> > skilful tech staff that my ISP is allegedly hiring, and they will
> > be able to slip this collection adroitly into place.  And it will
> > be as if archiving was always in place . . .
> 
> So long as you save the messages in mbox format, and you have access 
> to the command-line, you can always use the "arch" tool to import the 
> old messages into the new archives.  The instructions for doing this 
> kind of stuff are in the FAQ.
> 
> But if you don't have direct command-line access to the server, then 
> you'll be dependant on the staff that do.  And from what you've 
> described, that's really the crux of the problem you're already faced 
> with.
	You are exactly right.  It is, like so many other things<g>, a
	political problem.  PatriotNet is a small ISP; its founder died,
	the widow sold to another, totally incompetent, company . . . but
	now it has passed to yet another company, which is known to have
	Linux/Unix competent people, and which makes good noises in re
	tech support.

Since you say "mbox format" and since my MUA is mutt, set up to use mbox,
I think/hope/believe I am OK . . .  but time will tell.

Many thanks to you and to the others who have chimed in.  This E-list is
wonderful; run the way a help list should be IMHO.

Best wishes,

Alan

-- 
Alan McConnell :  http://patriot.net/users/alan
    There are many good Impeachment sites; one of the best is:
           www.waifllc.org

From martin.marcher at openforce.com  Fri Dec  8 15:16:17 2006
From: martin.marcher at openforce.com (Martin Marcher)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 15:16:17 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domains + postfix
Message-ID: <FB48B5FE-DD71-4D2A-A3BC-EC381FEECAD5@openforce.com>

Hello,

trying to setup mailman with virtual domains and postfix, no matter  
what I tried I get "No such mailbox", I postfix I set up the  
alias_maps to hold the generated aliases that pipe to mailman and  
virtual_alias_maps points to the file that holds the fully qualified  
list addresses which in turn point to the aliases defined in the  
alias_maps.

I really have no Idea what to do to make it work, I tried several  
howtos from the web but none the approaches seem to work out

I'll provide any informations you need to help me analyze this but  
since I have no idea what's really going on here anymore I figured I  
wait what you say you need...

\martin


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Dec  8 15:52:26 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 08:52:26 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <20061208125233.GA2132@patriot.net>
References: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
	<PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
	<20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<20061207215716.GB4057@patriot.net>	<p06240501c19e607e612c@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061208125233.GA2132@patriot.net>
Message-ID: <p06240501c19f29e5ba68@[10.0.1.11]>

At 7:52 AM -0500 12/8/06, Alan McConnell quoted me:

>>  Uh, what version of Mailman is that?  I thought that Mailman had
>>  fully integrated Pipermail along with the base code, for many years
>>  now?  Are they running Mailman 1.x or something?
>
>	mm 2.1.5 .  But under Debian, so it has experienced/endured the
>	Debian security upgrade procedures.

Okay, now that is one of the most bizarre things I've heard of in a 
very long time.  I cannot comprehend how they could possibly ship a 
version of Mailman 2.1.x that does not automatically include the 
bundled Pipermail component.

Congratulations -- I've been in this business long enough that I 
don't get too many surprises like this anymore.  Yet, Mailman has 
recently provided me these kinds of surprises twice in the last 
couple of weeks or so.

There should definitely be some sort of prize that you win as a 
result of your experience.

>	You are exactly right.  It is, like so many other things<g>, a
>	political problem.  PatriotNet is a small ISP; its founder died,
>	the widow sold to another, totally incompetent, company . . . but
>	now it has passed to yet another company, which is known to have
>	Linux/Unix competent people, and which makes good noises in re
>	tech support.

Ahh.  PatriotNet.  I had heard good things about them years ago, but 
it's been a while since I've seen that name.

Interesting to see what has since happened to that company.

>  Since you say "mbox format" and since my MUA is mutt, set up to use mbox,
>  I think/hope/believe I am OK . . .  but time will tell.

In terms of the mbox format itself, you should be fine.

I'm seriously thinking of switching back to mutt myself (after being 
away for so many years), because Qualcomm/Eudora have decided to kill 
the product as a separate program and the next major version is going 
to be based on the Thunderbird platform.  Of course, if I wanted 
Thunderbird, I'd be using Thunderbird.  I have over 6GB of archives 
in Eudora's slightly modified version of mbox archives, and I'm not 
looking forward to what I'm going to have to do in order to move to a 
different program.  I may take a look at what happens with Eudora 
after the change, I might go ahead and switch to "real" Thunderbird, 
or I might switch to a different program altogether -- which would 
almost certainly be mutt.  I haven't decided yet.

But regardless of what happens to me, you should definitely be fine with mutt.


I think your issue is going to be the level of support that you get 
from the people who have yet to be brought in to help manage the 
systems, and whether or not they have the level of clue and talent 
required to be able to properly import your mailboxes for the 
archives.

As far as that goes, about all I can do is to wish you luck, and then 
we all wait to see what happens.

>  Many thanks to you and to the others who have chimed in.  This E-list is
>  wonderful; run the way a help list should be IMHO.

I'm pretty much always glad to help, if I can -- as permitted by time 
and available resources.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From anne.ramey at ncmail.net  Fri Dec  8 16:19:25 2006
From: anne.ramey at ncmail.net (Anne Ramey)
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 10:19:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing members with non-standard characters
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00612061550v16caae91hcc939f3f5a3a16bc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4577176F.2010807@ncmail.net>
	<6fbe3da00612061550v16caae91hcc939f3f5a3a16bc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4579827D.40705@ncmail.net>



Patrick Bogen wrote:
> On 12/6/06, Anne Ramey <anne.ramey at ncmail.net> wrote:
>> I'm not sure how one of my list admins managed to do this, but they have
>> four members on their list that look like this in the membership list:
>> b
>> <http://lists.ncmail.net/mailman/options/nciin-network-ops/%00b%00r%00i%00a%00n%00v%00--at--%00n%00c%00c%00c%00s%00.%00c%00c%00.%00n%00c%00.%00u%00s%00%00%00%00%00%1F%00%00%00%01%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%03%00%00%00> 
>>
>
> See FAQ 3.13. How do I remove a user name or email address with an
> illegal character in it?
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.013.htp>
>
I should have mentioned that will not work for this case.  You'll notice 
that these are not all nice ascii characters.  some are spaces, some 
deletes, some other hex values...I don't know what they all are because 
they will not copy and past nicely.  They don't appear at all when I do 
list_members.  Any other ideas

From chris at westnet.com  Fri Dec  8 16:19:19 2006
From: chris at westnet.com (Christopher X. Candreva)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 10:19:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <C7181EBB-4955-4ED5-88B2-CB41C10EC8CB@python.org>
References: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
	<PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
	<20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<20061207215716.GB4057@patriot.net>
	<20061207222206.GA10945@allhats.xcski.com>
	<C7181EBB-4955-4ED5-88B2-CB41C10EC8CB@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.64.0612081012510.13336@westnet.com>

On Thu, 7 Dec 2006, Barry Warsaw wrote:

> Have I mentioned recently how long I've been looking for a volunteer  
> to help make all this not suck?  ;}  Pipermail is just one of those  
> things that people either live with or ditch.

I've used Hypermail for probably a decade to archive Majordomo lists.
It makes web archives from mbox files natively.


==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/

From Jean.BERTHOLD at eosholding.ch  Fri Dec  8 16:30:16 2006
From: Jean.BERTHOLD at eosholding.ch (BERTHOLD Jean)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 16:30:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email arrives after a long delay
Message-ID: <C02FA870DECC5F4A933E05E3A37F441720A78E@SWEXCH.sila.local>

Hello Brad,

First, many thanks for your long, useful and complete response (whaou...)
I'm not a email specialist but when I seen the message:

> [ID 801593 mail.warning] kB6BcXf1016562: collect: premature EOM:
>  unexpected close )

I Think you are true, there is a problem on our Exchange server...

The second problem is now to convince our Exchange administrator... 
But I think your response will give them a good idea about the problem... :-)

Thanks again for your help and have a nice week-end

Jean


-----Message d'origine-----
De : Brad Knowles [mailto:brad at shub-internet.org] 
Envoy? : jeudi, 7. d?cembre 2006 17:52
? : BERTHOLD Jean; mailman-users at python.org
Cc : BERTHOLD Jean
Objet : Re: [Mailman-Users] Email arrives after a long delay

At 9:34 AM +0100 12/7/06, BERTHOLD Jean wrote:

>  I have a configuration problem.
>  All my lists works correctly excepted that the emails arrives with
>  a delay of 10 minutes on the mailman server.

In the world of Internet e-mail, ten minutes is nothing.  In fact, 
that's pretty damn fast.

>  Dec 06 12:49:49 2006 (4144) post to fpbg-dtr from
>  jean.berthold at eosholding.ch, size=1880,
>  message-id=<C02FA870DECC5F4A933E05E3A37F441720A630 at SWEXCH.sila.local,
>  success
>
>  Dec 06 13:08:18 2006 (4144) post to fpbg-dtr from
>  jean.berthold at eosholding.ch, size=1875,
>  message-id=<C02FA870DECC5F4A933E05E3A37F441720A634 at SWEXCH.sila.local,
>  success

Okay, so here we have two different messages coming into Mailman from 
you.  So that we can make it easy to identify them, let's call them 
"630" and "634", which comes from the last three digits of the 
Message-ID field before the at-symbol.

>  Dec 06 12:49:49 2006 (4144)
>  <C02FA870DECC5F4A933E05E3A37F441720A630 at SWEXCH.sila.local> smtp to
>  fpbg-dtr for 1 recips, completed in 0.318 seconds

Okay, so we see that 630 came into Mailman from the MTA at 12:49:49 
and went back out to the MTA in less than a second.  That's good.

>  Dec  6 12:48:46 bahamas sendmail[16562]: [ID 801593 mail.warning]
>  kB6BcXf1016562: collect: premature EOM: unexpected close
>  Dec  6 12:48:46 bahamas sendmail[16562]: [ID 801593 mail.notice]
>  kB6BcXf1016562: collect: unexpected close on connection from
>  swexch01lpro.sila.local, sender=<CheckTpsAckCnfMailTask at sila.local
>  Dec  6 12:48:46 bahamas sendmail[16562]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
>  kB6BcXf1016562: from=<CheckTpsAckCnfMailTask at sila.local>, size=1217,
>  class=0, nrcpts=1, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4,
>  relay=swexch01lpro.sila.local [172.25.2.76]

These are signs that your Exchange server is screwing up the SMTP protocol.

>  Dec  6 12:49:46 bahamas sendmail[16721]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
>  kB6BnkRQ016721: from=<Jean.BERTHOLD at eosholding.ch>, size=1315,
>  class=0, nrcpts=1,
>  msgid=<C02FA870DECC5F4A933E05E3A37F441720A630 at SWEXCH.sila.local>,
>  proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=swexch01lpro.sila.local [172.25.2.76]

Okay, so here is 630 coming into the system from Exchange.  Note that 
the sendmail queue-id in this case is kB6BnkRQ016721.  This is how we 
tie other log entries together back to this same message -- by the 
sendmail queue-id.

>  Dec  6 12:49:47 bahamas sendmail[16722]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
>  kB6BnkRQ016721: to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post fpbg-dtr",
>  ctladdr=<fpbg-dtr at bahamas.sila.local> (1/0), delay=00:00:01,
>  xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, pri=31536, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent

Okay, so here is sendmail saying that it has now sent 630 to Mailman. 
We know that it's what we're calling message 630 because we see the 
same sendmail queue-id, namely kB6BnkRQ016721.

Note that Mailman says that it finished getting this message about 
two seconds later (at 12:49:49), and that Mailman then sends that 
message back to the MTA in less than a second (still 12:49:49).

>  Dec  6 12:49:49 bahamas sendmail[16725]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
>  kB6Bnnn6016725: from=<fpbg-dtr-bounces at bahamas.sila.local>,
>  size=1880, class=-30, nrcpts=1,
>  msgid=<C02FA870DECC5F4A933E05E3A37F441720A630 at SWEXCH.sila.local>,
>  proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]

Okay, so here is 630 having come back out of Mailman, and going into 
the MTA to be delivered to the recipient.  Note that the sendmail 
queue-id is now kB6Bnnn6016725, because as far as sendmail is 
concerned this is a totally different message.  Sendmail doesn't know 
that the content is exactly the same, and that what has happened is 
that the message has come through sendmail, into Mailman, and then 
back out again.  Sendmail sees the inbound and outbound legs as being 
two totally separate messages.

Any further delay is totally and completely out of the hands of 
Mailman.  There is absolutely nothing that we can do to help.

>  Dec  6 13:08:20 bahamas sendmail[17179]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
>  kB6C8Kge017177: to=<jean.berthold at eosholding.ch>, delay=00:00:00,
>  xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=esmtp, pri=176820, relay=mta0.eosholding.ch.
>  [193.8.222.23], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (Ok: queued as 360A520C03B)

Dunno what message this is, but it doesn't look like it's 630.  Note 
that the sendmail queue-id is different -- Message 630 came in with 
queue-id kB6Bnnn6016725, and this has queue-id kB6C8Kge017177.  So, 
it looks like there are some log entries missing.

>  Dec  6 13:08:21 bahamas sendmail[17180]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
>  kB6C8LhF017180: from=<fpbg-dct-bounces at bahamas.sila.local>, size=2777,
>  class=-30, nrcpts=1,
>  msgid=<-227556877.1165399238285.JavaMail.javamailuser at localhost>,
>  proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
>  Dec  6 13:08:21 bahamas sendmail[17182]: [ID 801593 mail.info]
>  kB6C8LhF017180: to=<jean.berthold at eosholding.ch>, delay=00:00:00,
>  xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=esmtp, pri=176777, relay=mta0.eosholding.ch.
>  [193.8.222.23], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (Ok: queued as 5E95B20C053)

Okay, so this is a totally different message.  Different Message-id, 
different sendmail queue-id.  Apparently completely unrelated.

>  As you can see, there is some warning with sendmail ( [ID
>  801593 mail.warning] kB6BcXf1016562: collect: premature EOM:
>  unexpected close )

Yup.  That's a sign that your Exchange server is screwing up the SMTP 
dialog to sendmail.  Get your Exchange admin to fix the Exchange 
server.

>  Mailman is 2.1.8 release and apache is running on release 2.

Version 2.1.8 had security issues.  Upgrade to 2.1.9, or risk having 
your server get compromised by an attacker.

>  Is there a special sendmail configuration to apply for avoiding 
>this problem ?

Nope.  From what I can see, this delay is completely and totally out 
of the hands of either Mailman or sendmail.  Looks to me like the 
delay is somewhere else entirely.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From tmz at pobox.com  Fri Dec  8 16:51:17 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 10:51:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006120717484303707cdfeffd@msapiro>
References: <20061208003438.GA30566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<PC17602006120717484303707cdfeffd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061208155116.GL16276@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Paul Tomblin wrote:
> 
>>Quoting Barry Warsaw (barry at python.org):
>>> 
>>> It already does escape From lines in the body of the message.  It
>>> does this by way of the email package's Generator class, which is
>>> instantiated with mangle_from_=True.
>>
>>Must be a newer version than the one in Debian stable.   I grepped
>>for "mangle" in /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/*, and didn't find it.  The
>>parameter does appear in /usr/lib/python2.3/email/Generator.py, but
>>since I don't know python I don't know how to pass it to it.  I'm
>>guessing it has something to do with changing the "g =
>>Generator(fp)" and "g = Generator(outfp)" lines in
>>Mailman/ListAdmin.py or more likely the "g = Generator(self.fp)"
>>line in Mailman/Mailbox.py?  Is it as simple as changing that last
>>one to "g = Generator(self.fp,mangle_from_=True)"?
> 
> 
> Yes it is.
> 
> And I think Barry may have misspoken as I don't think that change is
> in the SVN trunk or Release_2_1-maint branch.

According to the docs for email.Generator, mangle_from defaults to
True and has since at least python 2.3.  So setting it shouldn't be
needed AFAICS.

In that case, shouldn't any message that reaches mailman with an
unescaped From_ line in the body already be handled properly?  It
seems like something else must be borked.  That or all of the messages
in a list mbox that contain unescaped From_ lines got there from
really old versions of Mailman/python.

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
You know an odd feeling?  Sitting on the toilet eating a chocolate
candy bar.
    -- George Carlin, Napalm & Silly Putty

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 542 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20061208/493bc78d/attachment.pgp 

From ptomblin at xcski.com  Fri Dec  8 17:10:09 2006
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 11:10:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <20061208155116.GL16276@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
References: <20061208003438.GA30566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<PC17602006120717484303707cdfeffd@msapiro>
	<20061208155116.GL16276@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <20061208161009.GA19948@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Todd Zullinger (tmz at pobox.com):
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
> > Paul Tomblin wrote:
> >>Quoting Barry Warsaw (barry at python.org):
> >>> It already does escape From lines in the body of the message.  It
> >>> does this by way of the email package's Generator class, which is
> >>> instantiated with mangle_from_=True.
> 
> According to the docs for email.Generator, mangle_from defaults to
> True and has since at least python 2.3.  So setting it shouldn't be
> needed AFAICS.

Oh right, now I get it.  I told you I didn't know Python, but I should have
been able to figure that 
    def __init__(self, outfp, mangle_from_=True, maxheaderlen=78):
meant that it defaulted to True in Generator.py so didn't need to be
changed in Mailman.

> 
> In that case, shouldn't any message that reaches mailman with an
> unescaped From_ line in the body already be handled properly?  It
> seems like something else must be borked.  That or all of the messages
> in a list mbox that contain unescaped From_ lines got there from
> really old versions of Mailman/python.

That is distinctly possible.  The archives in question go back to 1998.  I
didn't keep track of when the *last* unescaped From_ line was put in the
archives.



-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
It could have been raining flaming bulldozers, and those idiots would have
been standing out there smoking, going 'hey, look at that John Deere burn!'
              -- Texan AMD security guard

From jam at jamux.com  Fri Dec  8 17:43:56 2006
From: jam at jamux.com (John A. Martin)
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 11:43:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <p06240501c19f29e5ba68@[10.0.1.11]> (Brad Knowles's message of
	"Fri, 8 Dec 2006 08:52:26 -0600")
References: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
	<PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
	<20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<20061207215716.GB4057@patriot.net>
	<p06240501c19e607e612c@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061208125233.GA2132@patriot.net>
	<p06240501c19f29e5ba68@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <87ac1y8hir.fsf@athene.jamux.com>

A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 154 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20061208/325aff05/attachment.pgp 

From tmz at pobox.com  Fri Dec  8 17:51:27 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 11:51:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <20061208161009.GA19948@allhats.xcski.com>
References: <20061208003438.GA30566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<PC17602006120717484303707cdfeffd@msapiro>
	<20061208155116.GL16276@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<20061208161009.GA19948@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <20061208165127.GN16276@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Paul Tomblin wrote:
> Oh right, now I get it.  I told you I didn't know Python, but I
> should have been able to figure that
>     def __init__(self, outfp, mangle_from_=True, maxheaderlen=78):
> meant that it defaulted to True in Generator.py so didn't need to be
> changed in Mailman.

:-)

I actually trusted the docs (which I probably shouldn't do).  But
you're right, the __init__ line confirms the default setting for
mangle_from.

>> In that case, shouldn't any message that reaches mailman with an
>> unescaped From_ line in the body already be handled properly?  It
>> seems like something else must be borked.  That or all of the
>> messages in a list mbox that contain unescaped From_ lines got
>> there from really old versions of Mailman/python.
> 
> That is distinctly possible.  The archives in question go back to
> 1998.  I didn't keep track of when the *last* unescaped From_ line
> was put in the archives.

It still sucks that you have to muck around with the mboxes to get
pipermail to archive them properly.  I feel your pain.  I am currently
trying to get another lists archives into better shape and have run
into the same issue.

I'm seriously lacking in the skill to fix pipermail or I'd take Barry
up on trying to fix it.

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it.
    -- Anonymous

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 542 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20061208/1dc32309/attachment.pgp 

From tmz at pobox.com  Fri Dec  8 18:01:40 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 12:01:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue
Message-ID: <20061208170140.GO16276@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

In honor of recent discussions on pipermail, I think I've found
another issue with archiving, though this seems to be in
Mailman.Scrubber.

In a few recent posts to the GnuPG lists, Werner Koch sent along some
signed patches fixing issues in the gpg code.  Unfortunately, the
archives ate his posts[1] so we can't point others to the patches in the
archives as nicely as one would like.

It seems that the problem is that both message parts lack a
"Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii" header and the first part
also lacks a "Content-disposition: inline" header.  If I edit the raw
message to include a "Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii"
header for each mime part, it passes the scrubber as is archived
properly.

From my limited reading of RFC 2045[2], it seems that a mime part
without a content-type header should be assumed to be text/plain;
charset=us-ascii.  Is the scrubber wrong to not assume this or are
there too many issues with making this (apparently quite standards
conformant) assumption?

[1] http://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-users/2006-December/029976.html
[2] http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2045.txt

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
To know what is right and not to do it is the worst cowardice.
    -- Confucius

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 542 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20061208/7c6ea4cd/attachment.pgp 

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  8 18:07:18 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 09:07:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing members with non-standard characters
In-Reply-To: <4579827D.40705@ncmail.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612080907180312ce03eeaa@msapiro>

Anne Ramey wrote:
>>
>I should have mentioned that will not work for this case.  You'll notice 
>that these are not all nice ascii characters.  some are spaces, some 
>deletes, some other hex values...I don't know what they all are because 
>they will not copy and past nicely.  They don't appear at all when I do 
>list_members.  Any other ideas


There are several options and I have lots of ideas.

Have you tried just checking the 'unsub' box next to the entry?

The 'address' you see looks a lot like the URL of the options page that
the address is a link to. Perhaps you are not seeing the address at
all, but rather, you are seeing the result of funny characters in the
address confusing the browser's rendering of the anchor tag. It looks
like
<http://lists.ncmail.net/mailman/options/nciin-network-ops/%00b%00r%00i%00a%00n%00v%00--at--%00n%00c%00c%00c%00s%00.%00c%00c%00.%00n%00c%00.%00u%00s%00%00%00%00%00%1F%00%00%00%01%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%03%00%00%00>
is a link to the options page of the user whose address is

%00b%00r%00i%00a%00n%00v%00--at--%00n%00c%00c%00c%00s%00.%00c%00c%00.%00n%00c%00.%00u%00s%00%00%00%00%00%1F%00%00%00%01%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%03%00%00%00

(if you replace --at-- with @, %00 with ^@, %1F with ^_, %01 with ^A
and %03 with ^C)

Do you see brianv at ncccs.cc.nc.us on the list_members output? Does this
entry appear in the membership list on its own page at the beginning?

It also looks like someone mass subscribed a list pasted from or output
by a word processor

If the bad addresses don't appear in list_members (I don't know why
they wouldn't, but maybe they just appear with the control characters
that you don't see and thus look OK) you can do

  bin/list_members listname | bin/synch_members -f - -n listname

and if you like what that says, you can do

  bin/list_members listname | bin/synch_members -f - listname

You might also try

  bin/list_members -i listname

to see what that shows.

You could create a simple withlist script to validate member addresses
and delete invalid ones..

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From barry at python.org  Fri Dec  8 18:47:28 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 12:47:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <20061208161009.GA19948@allhats.xcski.com>
References: <20061208003438.GA30566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<PC17602006120717484303707cdfeffd@msapiro>
	<20061208155116.GL16276@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<20061208161009.GA19948@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <94C8E16B-2BC9-457B-8EBA-5E7B96C58364@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Dec 8, 2006, at 11:10 AM, Paul Tomblin wrote:

>> In that case, shouldn't any message that reaches mailman with an
>> unescaped From_ line in the body already be handled properly?  It
>> seems like something else must be borked.  That or all of the  
>> messages
>> in a list mbox that contain unescaped From_ lines got there from
>> really old versions of Mailman/python.
>
> That is distinctly possible.  The archives in question go back to  
> 1998.  I
> didn't keep track of when the *last* unescaped From_ line was put  
> in the
> archives.

Sorry, I should have been clearer that the /default/ behavior of the  
generator is to mangle From_ lines.  So it's true that nothing in  
Mailman should need to be changed.

However, it's also true that in the distant past, there were some  
bugs in the mbox implementation which would cause broken mbox files  
to be written.  A quick scan through the svn logs jogs my memory:  
r6341 on 2003-04-17 was added to fix a message separation bug.  I  
don't know how long that bug was lurking, but the fix puts it just  
before the 2.1.2 release according to the NEWS file.  I'll bet that  
it existed from 2.1 final (Dec 2002) until 2.1.2 (Apr 2003), the  
latter which was probably released specifically to fix this problem!

Note that this bug had no effect on the archiving of new messages on  
the fly.  Those always got archived correctly.  But the message was  
appended to the mbox file incorrectly which meant that if you  
regenerated your archives, you'd be screwed.  This was what bin/ 
cleanarch was intended to fix.

BTW, one less ambitious way to participate here to help fix things  
would be to improve bin/cleanarch.  At the very least, you should be  
able to run that script and get an mbox file that bin/arch can use to  
DTRT.  It would also be nice if bin/arch was able to compensate for  
running out of memory, possibly by changing it to fork a sub-process  
to do the actual archiving with the parent process pre-chunking the  
workload for the child.

Anyway, I'm cc'ing mailman-developers.  Further discussion of how to  
improve matters should be conducted on that list (and mailman-users  
should be removed).

- -Barry

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin)

iQCVAwUBRXmlMHEjvBPtnXfVAQIFYAP/W2LEOrKhqrB6sDniHKADAV5iMuLm19zu
nUkvrJpOumD78+tRDa1DCQG8RaCSAZ7bNkTA2VwIUgcX1I4+9d7ylklonQSiRJzB
xbg+OBD5+x5q+Cdo9qX1dhlGWTdmrSReN0CLRx6408JX8qtXhIh+3S0f3tG44bYE
lB76OX4HPXo=
=nhI8
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  8 18:51:04 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 09:51:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stop delivering ... problem
	withApproval.py?
In-Reply-To: <200612080514.kB85EuSN093511@zoot.lafn.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602006120809510402811139217d@msapiro>

parallax at lafn.org wrote:

>The mailman lists on my server have suddenly stopped delivering mail. 


And what update to Mailman or Python was installed just before this
happened?


>The error 
>of one of the messages is cut and paste below ... All the messages are being 
>shunted off and not delivered when it reaches the Approval.py and has trouble 
>inporting ...? 
>
> File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Approve.py", line 
>28, in ?
>   from email.Iterators import typed_subpart_iterator
>ImportError: cannot import name typed_subpart_iterator


The above import has been in Approve.py since 2.1.0. Something else in
your system changed.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>
for the reason why I can't be more helpful.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  8 19:19:03 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 10:19:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <p06240501c19f29e5ba68@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612081019030640399bde23@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 7:52 AM -0500 12/8/06, Alan McConnell quoted me:
>
>>>  Uh, what version of Mailman is that?  I thought that Mailman had
>>>  fully integrated Pipermail along with the base code, for many years
>>>  now?  Are they running Mailman 1.x or something?
>>
>>	mm 2.1.5 .  But under Debian, so it has experienced/endured the
>>	Debian security upgrade procedures.
>
>Okay, now that is one of the most bizarre things I've heard of in a 
>very long time.  I cannot comprehend how they could possibly ship a 
>version of Mailman 2.1.x that does not automatically include the 
>bundled Pipermail component.


But the hosting service could set

  ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 1

in mm_cfg.py to disable pipermail archiving and archive only to the
.mbox file.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From parallax at lafn.org  Fri Dec  8 20:22:01 2006
From: parallax at lafn.org (SML)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 11:22:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stop delivering ... problem
 withApproval.py?
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006120809510402811139217d@msapiro>
References: <200612080514.kB85EuSN093511@zoot.lafn.org>
	<PC17602006120809510402811139217d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061208112201.cfa8ca78.parallax@lafn.org>

> >The mailman lists on my server have suddenly stopped delivering
> >mail. 
> 
> And what update to Mailman or Python was installed just before this
> happened?

There was no update to either Mailman or Python ... but one of the
lists was hit with a *massive* amount of spam that caused "too many
files open" error, this same spam attack eventually caused the
server to run out of memory :(
 
> The above import has been in Approve.py since 2.1.0. Something else
> in your system changed.

When creating a temp list for a testing sandbox the Import errors were
replaced by "AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute
'get_sender' errors," and then all errors stopped and the lists on
the server started working again.

My assumption is that Mailman was using up server resources to deal
with spam and a (few) files got corrupted, which files
were then recompiled on the creation of a new list.

I'm now sending all mail to the list owner to dev/null and am
content filtering and discarding mail with images ... I'm hoping that
that will reduce the amount of resources that Mailman needs should
another load hit.

One interesting thing, the qfiles/shunt/*.pck files were owned:group
by mailman:mailman, but the most recent "AttributeError" .pck files
are owned:group root:mailman. How is it that Mailman started writing
files with root as the owner? 

> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>
> for the reason why I can't be more helpful.

Yeah. I appreciate the time you've been able to give.  Thanks.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  8 20:53:47 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 11:53:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue
In-Reply-To: <20061208170140.GO16276@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612081153470546f2af70b1@msapiro>

Todd Zullinger wrote:
>
>In honor of recent discussions on pipermail, I think I've found
>another issue with archiving, though this seems to be in
>Mailman.Scrubber.
>
>In a few recent posts to the GnuPG lists, Werner Koch sent along some
>signed patches fixing issues in the gpg code.  Unfortunately, the
>archives ate his posts[1] so we can't point others to the patches in the
>archives as nicely as one would like.


There seems to be another issue in that there is no 'link' to the
scrubbed part, just a relative URL which doesn't work.


>It seems that the problem is that both message parts lack a
>"Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii" header and the first part
>also lacks a "Content-disposition: inline" header.  If I edit the raw
>message to include a "Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii"
>header for each mime part, it passes the scrubber as is archived
>properly.
>
>From my limited reading of RFC 2045[2], it seems that a mime part
>without a content-type header should be assumed to be text/plain;
>charset=us-ascii.  Is the scrubber wrong to not assume this or are
>there too many issues with making this (apparently quite standards
>conformant) assumption?
>
>[1] http://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-users/2006-December/029976.html
>[2] http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2045.txt


You are correct in your assessment of why the part is scrubbed in the
first place. Also, it seems that according to sec 5.2 of RFC 2045 we
could assume 'us-ascii', but I expect this may cause other problems
with non-compliant MUAs. Tokio is responsible for a lot of scrubber
code, and he has a lot of experience with Japanese so I suspect there
is a reason we do it this way.

It seems that a good part of the problem in the above referenced
archive is that the scrubbed attachment is not given a clickable link,
and in fact the relative path given doesn't even work. I think at
least part of this must be specific to this site - perhaps a
(intentionally?) bad value for PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL in mm_cfg.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  8 21:12:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 12:12:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman stop delivering ...
	problemwithApproval.py?
In-Reply-To: <20061208112201.cfa8ca78.parallax@lafn.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602006120812121602504239568a@msapiro>

SML wrote:
>
>There was no update to either Mailman or Python ... but one of the
>lists was hit with a *massive* amount of spam that caused "too many
>files open" error, this same spam attack eventually caused the
>server to run out of memory :(


And the reboot of the server could have caused things which were
previously downloaded and waiting for a reboot to install to finally
be installed.


>> The above import has been in Approve.py since 2.1.0. Something else
>> in your system changed.
>
>When creating a temp list for a testing sandbox the Import errors were
>replaced by "AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute
>'get_sender' errors," and then all errors stopped and the lists on
>the server started working again.


I've seen reports of this error before and it appears to me to be a
symptom of an underlying Python problem that causes incoming queue
entries to be missing critical metadata.


>My assumption is that Mailman was using up server resources to deal
>with spam and a (few) files got corrupted, which files
>were then recompiled on the creation of a new list.


Creating a new list shouldn't cause anything to be recompiled or
reloaded.


>One interesting thing, the qfiles/shunt/*.pck files were owned:group
>by mailman:mailman, but the most recent "AttributeError" .pck files
>are owned:group root:mailman. How is it that Mailman started writing
>files with root as the owner? 


Because it was root that ran the 'bin/mailmanctl start' so root owns
the qrunner processes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tmz at pobox.com  Fri Dec  8 21:17:23 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 15:17:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612081153470546f2af70b1@msapiro>
References: <20061208170140.GO16276@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<PC1760200612081153470546f2af70b1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061208201723.GA18583@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Hi Mark,

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> There seems to be another issue in that there is no 'link' to the
> scrubbed part, just a relative URL which doesn't work.

Yes, there are other issues with the configuration there.  Click on
the list info link and then follow that to the archives.  You get into
the top level of the public archive dir, seeing a listing of all of
the lists and list mboxes.

However, I created a fresh list on my system to see whether this was a
list configuration issue or not and it's reproduceable using a default
list setup.  I initially thought it must be some over-agressive
content filtering, but after having it work on a virgin list I don't
think that's the case.  There may still be a way to configure the
content filtering to work around this, but I'm not familiar enough
with the various possibilities to know that.

> You are correct in your assessment of why the part is scrubbed in
> the first place. Also, it seems that according to sec 5.2 of RFC
> 2045 we could assume 'us-ascii', but I expect this may cause other
> problems with non-compliant MUAs. Tokio is responsible for a lot of
> scrubber code, and he has a lot of experience with Japanese so I
> suspect there is a reason we do it this way.

I was guessing this might be the case as well.  Hopefully Tokio or
someone else who's intimate with the code can comment on whether
that's the case or not.  It always sucks when the choice is either not
conform to a standard or not work properly in the real world.  I don't
envy the choices you guys have to make when writing email parsing
code.  :)

If it came to it, perhaps there could be an option to be strict about
the parsing for those that would rather conform than be able to handle
all of the junk that people send?  I tend to go this direction when I
configure my MTA's, but I realize this isn't always a viable choice
for others.

> It seems that a good part of the problem in the above referenced
> archive is that the scrubbed attachment is not given a clickable
> link, and in fact the relative path given doesn't even work. I think
> at least part of this must be specific to this site - perhaps a
> (intentionally?) bad value for PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL in mm_cfg.py.

I don't think it's related.  My test list created a proper link to the
second message part, but it still scrubbed both mime parts.  If I
added a content-disposition: inline header to the first part, then it
was similarly scrubbed and a link inserted.  Without that header, the
part just disappeared completely.

I can send you config_list output for the test list if you like, but
there weren't any changes made to the config so it should be nothing
but Mailman default.  I don't know what OS the real gnupg-users list
runs on, but my test list was created on Fedora Core 6, using the
packaged mailman rpm there (version 2.1.9).  I don't think there are
significant deviations from Mailman's source other than the FHS patch
that they apply.  If you think it's relevant, I can install from
source and test as well.

Thanks,

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
It is not enough to be busy, so are the ants. The question is: what
are we busy about?
    -- Henry David Thoreau

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 542 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20061208/c08de151/attachment.pgp 

From henrik.bechmann at sympatico.ca  Fri Dec  8 21:19:29 2006
From: henrik.bechmann at sympatico.ca (Henrik)
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 15:19:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with mailing lists general contact address
Message-ID: <BAYC1-PASMTP0515EE6FB231D689D915AA8CD30@CEZ.ICE>

All,

I am using mailman as installed and administered by a web host in 
vancouver, webserve.ca.

When I set up a mailing list, the general contact address on the 
mail.mail.domainname.ca/mailman/listinfo page is listed as 
mailman at mail.domainname.ca, rather than mailman at domainname.ca.

When I send a test email to mailman at mail.domainname.ca I get a bounce 
back with this message:

This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.

Delivery to the following recipients failed.

mailman at mail.domainname


When I send a test email to mailman at domainname.ca I get a bounce back 
with this message:

You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has
been automatically rejected.  If you think that your messages are
being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at mailman-owner at ns38.servepower.com.


I presume this is a configuration issue. Unfortunately I do not have 
access on the configuration server, and the webserve.ca support people 
seem to be at a loss as to what to do.

Judging from the fact that python's own mail list page uses 
mailman at python.org, I presume that the issue is faulty configuration of 
the general list contact address in the configuration file.

Could someone explain to me how this can be fixed, so that I can pass it on?

Thanks much,

- Henrik

-- 

Henrik Bechmann
www.osscommons.ca
www.bechmannsoftware.com
Webmaster, www.dufferinpark.ca


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  8 23:15:30 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 14:15:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue
In-Reply-To: <20061208201723.GA18583@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <PC176020061208141530068786c5a3cd@msapiro>

Todd Zullinger wrote:
>
>However, I created a fresh list on my system to see whether this was a
>list configuration issue or not and it's reproduceable using a default
>list setup.  I initially thought it must be some over-agressive
>content filtering, but after having it work on a virgin list I don't
>think that's the case.  There may still be a way to configure the
>content filtering to work around this, but I'm not familiar enough
>with the various possibilities to know that.


It shouldn't be a content filtering issue. If a part is missing a
Content-Type: header, the message methods get_content_type() and
get_content_maintype() which are used by MimeDel.py (content
filtering) return the default types which are text/plain and text
except for subparts of multipart/digest when they are message/rfc822
and message.


>> It seems that a good part of the problem in the above referenced
>> archive is that the scrubbed attachment is not given a clickable
>> link, and in fact the relative path given doesn't even work. I think
>> at least part of this must be specific to this site - perhaps a
>> (intentionally?) bad value for PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL in mm_cfg.py.
>
>I don't think it's related.  My test list created a proper link to the
>second message part, but it still scrubbed both mime parts.  If I
>added a content-disposition: inline header to the first part, then it
>was similarly scrubbed and a link inserted.  Without that header, the
>part just disappeared completely.


I can't duplicate this. I am trying a multipart/mixed message with two
'no content-type' parts and a third 'Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"' part. The first two parts are (individually)
either scrubbed and replaced with

 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
 Name: not available
 Url: http://example.com/pipermail/list1/attachments/...

or left in the message body depending on whether or not they contain a
Content-Disposition: inline header.


>I can send you config_list output for the test list if you like, but
>there weren't any changes made to the config so it should be nothing
>but Mailman default.  I don't know what OS the real gnupg-users list
>runs on, but my test list was created on Fedora Core 6, using the
>packaged mailman rpm there (version 2.1.9).  I don't think there are
>significant deviations from Mailman's source other than the FHS patch
>that they apply.  If you think it's relevant, I can install from
>source and test as well.


Can you just send me the original message that has parts lost?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tmz at pobox.com  Fri Dec  8 23:39:19 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 17:39:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061208141530068786c5a3cd@msapiro>
References: <20061208201723.GA18583@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<PC176020061208141530068786c5a3cd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061208223919.GD18583@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> It shouldn't be a content filtering issue. If a part is missing a
> Content-Type: header, the message methods get_content_type() and
> get_content_maintype() which are used by MimeDel.py (content
> filtering) return the default types which are text/plain and text
> except for subparts of multipart/digest when they are message/rfc822
> and message.

Okay, good to know.

> I can't duplicate this.

It's quite possible this is something that's tickled by the way Gnus
creates the message.  I know mutt doesn't create the sort of messages
that trigger this either.

> Can you just send me the original message that has parts lost?

Attached is the original message from the list mbox and one that I
munged up to included a content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii.

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
Women should be obscene and not heard.
    -- Groucho Marx

-------------- next part --------------
From wk at gnupg.org Thu Dec 07 19:26:34 2006
Received: from kerckhoffs.g10code.com ([217.69.77.222])
	by trithemius.gnupg.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50 #1 (Debian))
	id 1GsNx4-0008G7-A7 for <mm.gnupg-users at trithemius.gnupg.org>;
	Thu, 07 Dec 2006 19:26:34 +0100
Received: from uucp by kerckhoffs.g10code.com with local-rmail (Exim 4.50 #1
	(Debian)) id 1GsO7a-0001Qr-HL
	for <gnupg-users at gnupg.org>; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 19:37:26 +0100
Received: from wk by localhost with local (Exim 4.62 #1 (Debian))
	id 1GsNsD-0001gg-RX
	for <gnupg-users at gnupg.org>; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 19:21:33 +0100
From: Werner Koch <wk at gnupg.org>
To: gnupg-users at gnupg.org
Subject: Signed patch against 2.0.1
Organisation: g10 Code GmbH
OpenPGP: id=5B0358A2; url=finger:wk at g10code.com
Mail-Followup-To: gnupg-users at gnupg.org
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 19:21:33 +0100
Message-ID: <87wt53a7o2.fsf at wheatstone.g10code.de>
User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
	boundary="=KGB-Sundevil-gamma-Skipjack-government-Vince-Foster-Treasury-bce-S-B"
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on 
	trithemius.gnupg.org
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=ham 
	version=3.0.3
X-BeenThere: gnupg-users at gnupg.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Help and discussion among users of GnuPG <gnupg-users.gnupg.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users>,
	<mailto:gnupg-users-request at gnupg.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: </pipermail>
List-Post: <mailto:gnupg-users at gnupg.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gnupg-users-request at gnupg.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users>,
	<mailto:gnupg-users-request at gnupg.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 18:27:13 -0000
Content-Length: 8376
Lines: 294

--=KGB-Sundevil-gamma-Skipjack-government-Vince-Foster-Treasury-bce-S-B

Hi!

Here comes a signed patch against 2.0.1 for those who care to verify
signatures ;-).


Shalom-Salam,

   Werner


--=KGB-Sundevil-gamma-Skipjack-government-Vince-Foster-Treasury-bce-S-B
Content-Disposition: inline; filename=filter-context-20-small.diff
Content-Description: Patch against 2.0.1

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
NotDashEscaped: You need GnuPG to verify this message

This is a patch against GnuPG 2.0.1. Change the directory to g10/ and
apply this patch.

2006-12-02  Werner Koch  <wk at g10code.com>

	* encr-data.c: Allocate DFX context on the heap and not on the
	stack.  Changes at several places.  Fixes CVE-2006-6235.
	

Index: encr-data.c
===================================================================
--- encr-data.c	(revision 4352)
+++ encr-data.c	(working copy)
@@ -39,16 +39,37 @@
 static int decode_filter ( void *opaque, int control, IOBUF a,
 					byte *buf, size_t *ret_len);
 
-typedef struct 
+typedef struct decode_filter_context_s
 {
   gcry_cipher_hd_t cipher_hd;
   gcry_md_hd_t mdc_hash;
   char defer[22];
   int  defer_filled;
   int  eof_seen;
-} decode_filter_ctx_t;
+  int  refcount;
+} *decode_filter_ctx_t;
 
 
+/* Helper to release the decode context.  */
+static void
+release_dfx_context (decode_filter_ctx_t dfx)
+{
+  if (!dfx)
+    return;
+
+  assert (dfx->refcount);
+  if ( !--dfx->refcount )
+    {
+      gcry_cipher_close (dfx->cipher_hd);
+      dfx->cipher_hd = NULL;
+      gcry_md_close (dfx->mdc_hash);
+      dfx->mdc_hash = NULL;
+      xfree (dfx);
+    }
+}
+
+
+
 /****************
  * Decrypt the data, specified by ED with the key DEK.
  */
@@ -62,7 +83,11 @@
   unsigned blocksize;
   unsigned nprefix;
   
-  memset( &dfx, 0, sizeof dfx );
+  dfx = xtrycalloc (1, sizeof *dfx);
+  if (!dfx)
+    return gpg_error_from_syserror ();
+  dfx->refcount = 1;
+
   if ( opt.verbose && !dek->algo_info_printed )
     {
       const char *s = gcry_cipher_algo_name (dek->algo);
@@ -77,20 +102,20 @@
     goto leave;
   blocksize = gcry_cipher_get_algo_blklen (dek->algo);
   if ( !blocksize || blocksize > 16 )
-    log_fatal("unsupported blocksize %u\n", blocksize );
+    log_fatal ("unsupported blocksize %u\n", blocksize );
   nprefix = blocksize;
   if ( ed->len && ed->len < (nprefix+2) )
     BUG();
 
   if ( ed->mdc_method ) 
     {
-      if (gcry_md_open (&dfx.mdc_hash, ed->mdc_method, 0 ))
+      if (gcry_md_open (&dfx->mdc_hash, ed->mdc_method, 0 ))
         BUG ();
       if ( DBG_HASHING )
-        gcry_md_start_debug (dfx.mdc_hash, "checkmdc");
+        gcry_md_start_debug (dfx->mdc_hash, "checkmdc");
     }
 
-  rc = gcry_cipher_open (&dfx.cipher_hd, dek->algo,
+  rc = gcry_cipher_open (&dfx->cipher_hd, dek->algo,
                          GCRY_CIPHER_MODE_CFB,
                          (GCRY_CIPHER_SECURE
                           | ((ed->mdc_method || dek->algo >= 100)?
@@ -104,7 +129,7 @@
 
 
   /* log_hexdump( "thekey", dek->key, dek->keylen );*/
-  rc = gcry_cipher_setkey (dfx.cipher_hd, dek->key, dek->keylen);
+  rc = gcry_cipher_setkey (dfx->cipher_hd, dek->key, dek->keylen);
   if ( gpg_err_code (rc) == GPG_ERR_WEAK_KEY )
     {
       log_info(_("WARNING: message was encrypted with"
@@ -123,7 +148,7 @@
       goto leave;
     }
 
-  gcry_cipher_setiv (dfx.cipher_hd, NULL, 0);
+  gcry_cipher_setiv (dfx->cipher_hd, NULL, 0);
 
   if ( ed->len )
     {
@@ -144,8 +169,8 @@
           temp[i] = c;
     }
   
-  gcry_cipher_decrypt (dfx.cipher_hd, temp, nprefix+2, NULL, 0);
-  gcry_cipher_sync (dfx.cipher_hd);
+  gcry_cipher_decrypt (dfx->cipher_hd, temp, nprefix+2, NULL, 0);
+  gcry_cipher_sync (dfx->cipher_hd);
   p = temp;
   /* log_hexdump( "prefix", temp, nprefix+2 ); */
   if (dek->symmetric
@@ -155,17 +180,18 @@
       goto leave;
     }
   
-  if ( dfx.mdc_hash )
-    gcry_md_write (dfx.mdc_hash, temp, nprefix+2);
-  
+  if ( dfx->mdc_hash )
+    gcry_md_write (dfx->mdc_hash, temp, nprefix+2);
+
+  dfx->refcount++;
   if ( ed->mdc_method )
-    iobuf_push_filter( ed->buf, mdc_decode_filter, &dfx );
+    iobuf_push_filter ( ed->buf, mdc_decode_filter, dfx );
   else
-    iobuf_push_filter( ed->buf, decode_filter, &dfx );
+    iobuf_push_filter ( ed->buf, decode_filter, dfx );
 
   proc_packets ( procctx, ed->buf );
   ed->buf = NULL;
-  if ( ed->mdc_method && dfx.eof_seen == 2 )
+  if ( ed->mdc_method && dfx->eof_seen == 2 )
     rc = gpg_error (GPG_ERR_INV_PACKET);
   else if ( ed->mdc_method )
     { 
@@ -184,26 +210,28 @@
          bytes are appended.  */
       int datalen = gcry_md_get_algo_dlen (ed->mdc_method);
 
-      gcry_cipher_decrypt (dfx.cipher_hd, dfx.defer, 22, NULL, 0);
-      gcry_md_write (dfx.mdc_hash, dfx.defer, 2);
-      gcry_md_final (dfx.mdc_hash);
+      assert (dfx->cipher_hd);
+      assert (dfx->mdc_hash);
+      gcry_cipher_decrypt (dfx->cipher_hd, dfx->defer, 22, NULL, 0);
+      gcry_md_write (dfx->mdc_hash, dfx->defer, 2);
+      gcry_md_final (dfx->mdc_hash);
 
-      if (dfx.defer[0] != '\xd3' || dfx.defer[1] != '\x14' )
+      if (dfx->defer[0] != '\xd3' || dfx->defer[1] != '\x14' )
         {
           log_error("mdc_packet with invalid encoding\n");
           rc = gpg_error (GPG_ERR_INV_PACKET);
         }
       else if (datalen != 20
-               || memcmp (gcry_md_read (dfx.mdc_hash, 0),dfx.defer+2,datalen))
+               || memcmp (gcry_md_read (dfx->mdc_hash, 0),
+                          dfx->defer+2,datalen ))
         rc = gpg_error (GPG_ERR_BAD_SIGNATURE);
-      /* log_printhex("MDC message:", dfx.defer, 22); */
-      /* log_printhex("MDC calc:", gcry_md_read (dfx.mdc_hash,0), datalen); */
+      /* log_printhex("MDC message:", dfx->defer, 22); */
+      /* log_printhex("MDC calc:", gcry_md_read (dfx->mdc_hash,0), datalen); */
     }
   
   
  leave:
-  gcry_cipher_close (dfx.cipher_hd);
-  gcry_md_close (dfx.mdc_hash);
+  release_dfx_context (dfx);
   return rc;
 }
 
@@ -214,7 +242,7 @@
 mdc_decode_filter (void *opaque, int control, IOBUF a,
                    byte *buf, size_t *ret_len)
 {
-  decode_filter_ctx_t *dfx = opaque;
+  decode_filter_ctx_t dfx = opaque;
   size_t n, size = *ret_len;
   int rc = 0;
   int c;
@@ -226,11 +254,11 @@
     }
   else if( control == IOBUFCTRL_UNDERFLOW )
     {
-      assert(a);
-      assert( size > 44 );
+      assert (a);
+      assert ( size > 44 );
       
       /* Get at least 22 bytes and put it somewhere ahead in the buffer. */
-      for(n=22; n < 44 ; n++ )
+      for (n=22; n < 44 ; n++ )
         {
           if( (c = iobuf_get(a)) == -1 )
             break;
@@ -279,8 +307,10 @@
 
       if ( n )
         {
-          gcry_cipher_decrypt (dfx->cipher_hd, buf, n, NULL, 0);
-          gcry_md_write (dfx->mdc_hash, buf, n);
+          if ( dfx->cipher_hd )
+            gcry_cipher_decrypt (dfx->cipher_hd, buf, n, NULL, 0);
+          if ( dfx->mdc_hash )
+            gcry_md_write (dfx->mdc_hash, buf, n);
 	}
       else
         {
@@ -289,6 +319,10 @@
 	}
       *ret_len = n;
     }
+  else if ( control == IOBUFCTRL_FREE ) 
+    {
+      release_dfx_context (dfx);
+    }
   else if ( control == IOBUFCTRL_DESC ) 
     {
       *(char**)buf = "mdc_decode_filter";
@@ -300,7 +334,7 @@
 static int
 decode_filter( void *opaque, int control, IOBUF a, byte *buf, size_t *ret_len)
 {
-  decode_filter_ctx_t *fc = opaque;
+  decode_filter_ctx_t fc = opaque;
   size_t n, size = *ret_len;
   int rc = 0;
   
@@ -311,11 +345,18 @@
       if ( n == -1 )
         n = 0;
       if ( n )
-        gcry_cipher_decrypt (fc->cipher_hd, buf, n, NULL, 0);
+        {
+          if (fc->cipher_hd)
+            gcry_cipher_decrypt (fc->cipher_hd, buf, n, NULL, 0);
+        }
       else
         rc = -1; /* EOF */
       *ret_len = n;
     }
+  else if ( control == IOBUFCTRL_FREE ) 
+    {
+      release_dfx_context (fc);
+    }
   else if ( control == IOBUFCTRL_DESC )
     {
       *(char**)buf = "decode_filter";
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iJwEAQECAAYFAkV4WeUACgkQU7Yg0BzgxjDi+wQAjSexBMzjGL7v0PdpqnS4GmIb
/FvThc3+oi//x+nboaber4xTwh02NgcVhl18la+YEQfvos0qJNIoHIn9WA7VzdmP
7DlSlw7UgBtuvOFsUl52406q6Bq4C09LIcKu5Un2DCqVa8TP7xhoDvjwP3gNwOZY
YXuoHyMKvt4IWmXg0Wg=
=uq2k
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--=KGB-Sundevil-gamma-Skipjack-government-Vince-Foster-Treasury-bce-S-B--



-------------- next part --------------
From wk at gnupg.org Thu Dec 07 19:26:34 2006
Received: from kerckhoffs.g10code.com ([217.69.77.222])
	by trithemius.gnupg.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50 #1 (Debian))
	id 1GsNx4-0008G7-A7 for <mm.gnupg-users at trithemius.gnupg.org>;
	Thu, 07 Dec 2006 19:26:34 +0100
Received: from uucp by kerckhoffs.g10code.com with local-rmail (Exim 4.50 #1
	(Debian)) id 1GsO7a-0001Qr-HL
	for <gnupg-users at gnupg.org>; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 19:37:26 +0100
Received: from wk by localhost with local (Exim 4.62 #1 (Debian))
	id 1GsNsD-0001gg-RX
	for <gnupg-users at gnupg.org>; Thu, 07 Dec 2006 19:21:33 +0100
From: Werner Koch <wk at gnupg.org>
To: gnupg-users at gnupg.org
Subject: Signed patch against 2.0.1
Organisation: g10 Code GmbH
OpenPGP: id=5B0358A2; url=finger:wk at g10code.com
Mail-Followup-To: gnupg-users at gnupg.org
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 19:21:33 +0100
Message-ID: <87wt53a7o2.fsf at wheatstone.g10code.de>
User-Agent: Gnus/5.110006 (No Gnus v0.6)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
	boundary="=KGB-Sundevil-gamma-Skipjack-government-Vince-Foster-Treasury-bce-S-B"
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on 
	trithemius.gnupg.org
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=ham 
	version=3.0.3
X-BeenThere: gnupg-users at gnupg.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Help and discussion among users of GnuPG <gnupg-users.gnupg.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users>,
	<mailto:gnupg-users-request at gnupg.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: </pipermail>
List-Post: <mailto:gnupg-users at gnupg.org>
List-Help: <mailto:gnupg-users-request at gnupg.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users>,
	<mailto:gnupg-users-request at gnupg.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 18:27:13 -0000
Content-Length: 8376
Lines: 294

--=KGB-Sundevil-gamma-Skipjack-government-Vince-Foster-Treasury-bce-S-B
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi!

Here comes a signed patch against 2.0.1 for those who care to verify
signatures ;-).


Shalom-Salam,

   Werner


--=KGB-Sundevil-gamma-Skipjack-government-Vince-Foster-Treasury-bce-S-B
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline; filename=filter-context-20-small.diff
Content-Description: Patch against 2.0.1

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
NotDashEscaped: You need GnuPG to verify this message

This is a patch against GnuPG 2.0.1. Change the directory to g10/ and
apply this patch.

2006-12-02  Werner Koch  <wk at g10code.com>

	* encr-data.c: Allocate DFX context on the heap and not on the
	stack.  Changes at several places.  Fixes CVE-2006-6235.
	

Index: encr-data.c
===================================================================
--- encr-data.c	(revision 4352)
+++ encr-data.c	(working copy)
@@ -39,16 +39,37 @@
 static int decode_filter ( void *opaque, int control, IOBUF a,
 					byte *buf, size_t *ret_len);
 
-typedef struct 
+typedef struct decode_filter_context_s
 {
   gcry_cipher_hd_t cipher_hd;
   gcry_md_hd_t mdc_hash;
   char defer[22];
   int  defer_filled;
   int  eof_seen;
-} decode_filter_ctx_t;
+  int  refcount;
+} *decode_filter_ctx_t;
 
 
+/* Helper to release the decode context.  */
+static void
+release_dfx_context (decode_filter_ctx_t dfx)
+{
+  if (!dfx)
+    return;
+
+  assert (dfx->refcount);
+  if ( !--dfx->refcount )
+    {
+      gcry_cipher_close (dfx->cipher_hd);
+      dfx->cipher_hd = NULL;
+      gcry_md_close (dfx->mdc_hash);
+      dfx->mdc_hash = NULL;
+      xfree (dfx);
+    }
+}
+
+
+
 /****************
  * Decrypt the data, specified by ED with the key DEK.
  */
@@ -62,7 +83,11 @@
   unsigned blocksize;
   unsigned nprefix;
   
-  memset( &dfx, 0, sizeof dfx );
+  dfx = xtrycalloc (1, sizeof *dfx);
+  if (!dfx)
+    return gpg_error_from_syserror ();
+  dfx->refcount = 1;
+
   if ( opt.verbose && !dek->algo_info_printed )
     {
       const char *s = gcry_cipher_algo_name (dek->algo);
@@ -77,20 +102,20 @@
     goto leave;
   blocksize = gcry_cipher_get_algo_blklen (dek->algo);
   if ( !blocksize || blocksize > 16 )
-    log_fatal("unsupported blocksize %u\n", blocksize );
+    log_fatal ("unsupported blocksize %u\n", blocksize );
   nprefix = blocksize;
   if ( ed->len && ed->len < (nprefix+2) )
     BUG();
 
   if ( ed->mdc_method ) 
     {
-      if (gcry_md_open (&dfx.mdc_hash, ed->mdc_method, 0 ))
+      if (gcry_md_open (&dfx->mdc_hash, ed->mdc_method, 0 ))
         BUG ();
       if ( DBG_HASHING )
-        gcry_md_start_debug (dfx.mdc_hash, "checkmdc");
+        gcry_md_start_debug (dfx->mdc_hash, "checkmdc");
     }
 
-  rc = gcry_cipher_open (&dfx.cipher_hd, dek->algo,
+  rc = gcry_cipher_open (&dfx->cipher_hd, dek->algo,
                          GCRY_CIPHER_MODE_CFB,
                          (GCRY_CIPHER_SECURE
                           | ((ed->mdc_method || dek->algo >= 100)?
@@ -104,7 +129,7 @@
 
 
   /* log_hexdump( "thekey", dek->key, dek->keylen );*/
-  rc = gcry_cipher_setkey (dfx.cipher_hd, dek->key, dek->keylen);
+  rc = gcry_cipher_setkey (dfx->cipher_hd, dek->key, dek->keylen);
   if ( gpg_err_code (rc) == GPG_ERR_WEAK_KEY )
     {
       log_info(_("WARNING: message was encrypted with"
@@ -123,7 +148,7 @@
       goto leave;
     }
 
-  gcry_cipher_setiv (dfx.cipher_hd, NULL, 0);
+  gcry_cipher_setiv (dfx->cipher_hd, NULL, 0);
 
   if ( ed->len )
     {
@@ -144,8 +169,8 @@
           temp[i] = c;
     }
   
-  gcry_cipher_decrypt (dfx.cipher_hd, temp, nprefix+2, NULL, 0);
-  gcry_cipher_sync (dfx.cipher_hd);
+  gcry_cipher_decrypt (dfx->cipher_hd, temp, nprefix+2, NULL, 0);
+  gcry_cipher_sync (dfx->cipher_hd);
   p = temp;
   /* log_hexdump( "prefix", temp, nprefix+2 ); */
   if (dek->symmetric
@@ -155,17 +180,18 @@
       goto leave;
     }
   
-  if ( dfx.mdc_hash )
-    gcry_md_write (dfx.mdc_hash, temp, nprefix+2);
-  
+  if ( dfx->mdc_hash )
+    gcry_md_write (dfx->mdc_hash, temp, nprefix+2);
+
+  dfx->refcount++;
   if ( ed->mdc_method )
-    iobuf_push_filter( ed->buf, mdc_decode_filter, &dfx );
+    iobuf_push_filter ( ed->buf, mdc_decode_filter, dfx );
   else
-    iobuf_push_filter( ed->buf, decode_filter, &dfx );
+    iobuf_push_filter ( ed->buf, decode_filter, dfx );
 
   proc_packets ( procctx, ed->buf );
   ed->buf = NULL;
-  if ( ed->mdc_method && dfx.eof_seen == 2 )
+  if ( ed->mdc_method && dfx->eof_seen == 2 )
     rc = gpg_error (GPG_ERR_INV_PACKET);
   else if ( ed->mdc_method )
     { 
@@ -184,26 +210,28 @@
          bytes are appended.  */
       int datalen = gcry_md_get_algo_dlen (ed->mdc_method);
 
-      gcry_cipher_decrypt (dfx.cipher_hd, dfx.defer, 22, NULL, 0);
-      gcry_md_write (dfx.mdc_hash, dfx.defer, 2);
-      gcry_md_final (dfx.mdc_hash);
+      assert (dfx->cipher_hd);
+      assert (dfx->mdc_hash);
+      gcry_cipher_decrypt (dfx->cipher_hd, dfx->defer, 22, NULL, 0);
+      gcry_md_write (dfx->mdc_hash, dfx->defer, 2);
+      gcry_md_final (dfx->mdc_hash);
 
-      if (dfx.defer[0] != '\xd3' || dfx.defer[1] != '\x14' )
+      if (dfx->defer[0] != '\xd3' || dfx->defer[1] != '\x14' )
         {
           log_error("mdc_packet with invalid encoding\n");
           rc = gpg_error (GPG_ERR_INV_PACKET);
         }
       else if (datalen != 20
-               || memcmp (gcry_md_read (dfx.mdc_hash, 0),dfx.defer+2,datalen))
+               || memcmp (gcry_md_read (dfx->mdc_hash, 0),
+                          dfx->defer+2,datalen ))
         rc = gpg_error (GPG_ERR_BAD_SIGNATURE);
-      /* log_printhex("MDC message:", dfx.defer, 22); */
-      /* log_printhex("MDC calc:", gcry_md_read (dfx.mdc_hash,0), datalen); */
+      /* log_printhex("MDC message:", dfx->defer, 22); */
+      /* log_printhex("MDC calc:", gcry_md_read (dfx->mdc_hash,0), datalen); */
     }
   
   
  leave:
-  gcry_cipher_close (dfx.cipher_hd);
-  gcry_md_close (dfx.mdc_hash);
+  release_dfx_context (dfx);
   return rc;
 }
 
@@ -214,7 +242,7 @@
 mdc_decode_filter (void *opaque, int control, IOBUF a,
                    byte *buf, size_t *ret_len)
 {
-  decode_filter_ctx_t *dfx = opaque;
+  decode_filter_ctx_t dfx = opaque;
   size_t n, size = *ret_len;
   int rc = 0;
   int c;
@@ -226,11 +254,11 @@
     }
   else if( control == IOBUFCTRL_UNDERFLOW )
     {
-      assert(a);
-      assert( size > 44 );
+      assert (a);
+      assert ( size > 44 );
       
       /* Get at least 22 bytes and put it somewhere ahead in the buffer. */
-      for(n=22; n < 44 ; n++ )
+      for (n=22; n < 44 ; n++ )
         {
           if( (c = iobuf_get(a)) == -1 )
             break;
@@ -279,8 +307,10 @@
 
       if ( n )
         {
-          gcry_cipher_decrypt (dfx->cipher_hd, buf, n, NULL, 0);
-          gcry_md_write (dfx->mdc_hash, buf, n);
+          if ( dfx->cipher_hd )
+            gcry_cipher_decrypt (dfx->cipher_hd, buf, n, NULL, 0);
+          if ( dfx->mdc_hash )
+            gcry_md_write (dfx->mdc_hash, buf, n);
 	}
       else
         {
@@ -289,6 +319,10 @@
 	}
       *ret_len = n;
     }
+  else if ( control == IOBUFCTRL_FREE ) 
+    {
+      release_dfx_context (dfx);
+    }
   else if ( control == IOBUFCTRL_DESC ) 
     {
       *(char**)buf = "mdc_decode_filter";
@@ -300,7 +334,7 @@
 static int
 decode_filter( void *opaque, int control, IOBUF a, byte *buf, size_t *ret_len)
 {
-  decode_filter_ctx_t *fc = opaque;
+  decode_filter_ctx_t fc = opaque;
   size_t n, size = *ret_len;
   int rc = 0;
   
@@ -311,11 +345,18 @@
       if ( n == -1 )
         n = 0;
       if ( n )
-        gcry_cipher_decrypt (fc->cipher_hd, buf, n, NULL, 0);
+        {
+          if (fc->cipher_hd)
+            gcry_cipher_decrypt (fc->cipher_hd, buf, n, NULL, 0);
+        }
       else
         rc = -1; /* EOF */
       *ret_len = n;
     }
+  else if ( control == IOBUFCTRL_FREE ) 
+    {
+      release_dfx_context (fc);
+    }
   else if ( control == IOBUFCTRL_DESC )
     {
       *(char**)buf = "decode_filter";
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iJwEAQECAAYFAkV4WeUACgkQU7Yg0BzgxjDi+wQAjSexBMzjGL7v0PdpqnS4GmIb
/FvThc3+oi//x+nboaber4xTwh02NgcVhl18la+YEQfvos0qJNIoHIn9WA7VzdmP
7DlSlw7UgBtuvOFsUl52406q6Bq4C09LIcKu5Un2DCqVa8TP7xhoDvjwP3gNwOZY
YXuoHyMKvt4IWmXg0Wg=
=uq2k
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--=KGB-Sundevil-gamma-Skipjack-government-Vince-Foster-Treasury-bce-S-B--



-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 542 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20061208/2790aeeb/attachment.pgp 

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec  8 23:57:34 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 14:57:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with mailing lists general contact
	address
In-Reply-To: <BAYC1-PASMTP0515EE6FB231D689D915AA8CD30@CEZ.ICE>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612081457340250ff77d0dc@msapiro>

Henrik wrote:
>
>When I set up a mailing list, the general contact address on the 
>mail.mail.domainname.ca/mailman/listinfo page is listed as 
>mailman at mail.domainname.ca, rather than mailman at domainname.ca.


The domain in this address depends on whether or not
VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW is set to Yes or No. The default is Yes. If you
visit the http://www.example.com/mailman/listinfo overview page and
you see only lists in the www.example.com domain, then it is set to
Yes. If you see all the advertised lists on the server, then it is set
to No (in mm_cfg.py).

So, if VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW is set to No, the domain in the site list
address is the result of looking up DEFAULT_URL_HOST in the
VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary - i.e. it is the second argument from

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, xxx)

from mm_cfg.py (normally this is DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST).

If VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW is set to Yes, the domain is the result of
looking up the host domain from the URL used to access the page.

In your case, assuming no typo above even though it looks strange,
there is an entry in mm_cfg.py like

add_virtualhost('mail.mail.domainname.ca', 'mail.domainname.ca')

that should be

add_virtualhost('mail.mail.domainname.ca', 'domainname.ca')

instead.

There is another possibility. This add_virtualhost entry also affects
your own lists. Is the domain 'mail.domainname.ca' the correct domain
for mailing to your lists? If so, you don't want to change the
add_virtualhost entry; you need to add an alias or whatever to the MTA
for your domain for the mailman list.

On the third hand, I visited the listinfo page on the server at
ns38.servepower.com, and it appears to be a cPanel mailman so I relly
don't have a clue. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.


>When I send a test email to mailman at mail.domainname.ca I get a bounce 
>back with this message:
>
>This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.
>
>Delivery to the following recipients failed.
>
>mailman at mail.domainname
>
>
>When I send a test email to mailman at domainname.ca I get a bounce back 
>with this message:
>
>You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has
>been automatically rejected.  If you think that your messages are
>being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at mailman-owner at ns38.servepower.com.
>
>
>I presume this is a configuration issue. Unfortunately I do not have 
>access on the configuration server, and the webserve.ca support people 
>seem to be at a loss as to what to do.


You get the above message because the installation has only one site
list (mailman) for all supported domains and it is configured to
reject posts from non-members

Yet, since this is presumably a cPanel Mailman, if it is the case that
the domain for mail to your lists IS mail.domainname.ca, you may be
able to solve the whole problem by just creating a 'mailman' list in
your own domain.


>Judging from the fact that python's own mail list page uses 
>mailman at python.org, I presume that the issue is faulty configuration of 
>the general list contact address in the configuration file.
>
>Could someone explain to me how this can be fixed, so that I can pass it on?


If the above doesn't do it, let us know what else you need.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec  9 00:42:19 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 15:42:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue
In-Reply-To: <20061208223919.GD18583@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602006120815421900156ec90f62@msapiro>

Todd Zullinger wrote:
>
>Attached is the original message from the list mbox and one that I
>munged up to included a content-type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii.


I see the symptom with the original message. I'll look further, but it
seems to have something to do with the fact that the first sub-part
has no headers at all. I have looked at RFC 2045 and I don't see that
any headers are required, but I don't yet know what the underlying
issue in Scrubber is.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Dec  9 00:58:07 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 17:58:07 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <87ac1y8hir.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
References: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
	<PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
	<20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<20061207215716.GB4057@patriot.net>	<p06240501c19e607e612c@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061208125233.GA2132@patriot.net>	<p06240501c19f29e5ba68@[10.0.1.11]>
	<87ac1y8hir.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
Message-ID: <p06240501c19fa005a9bc@[10.0.1.11]>

At 11:43 AM -0500 12/8/06, John A. Martin wrote:

>  See <http://packages.debian.org/unstable/mail/mailman> for a
>  description of the Debian Mailman package that "integrates
>  .... archiving ...".  Further down that page under the heading
>  "Download mailman" click on one of the "list of files" buttons and see
>  among other things: "usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py"

I've never claimed to be a Debian expert, and if they're mucking 
about with packages that include certain features by default in order 
to remove those features, then there's not much I can do to help the 
poor souls that are stuck with that kind of stuff.

However, no amount of your expecting me to do "fact-checking" with 
the way that Debian is building their highly modified packaged 
versions of our software is going to change that.  It's physically 
impossible to keep up with how every single vendor is choosing to 
ship our software.


As far as I'm concerned, Debian is now further in the doghouse with 
me with regards to Mailman than most any other vendor, with the 
possible exception of cPanel.  Even Apple ships a relatively 
plain-jane version of Mailman 2.1.5 with their MacOS X Server 
platform, even if they do have their own proprietary management 
system that they tack on.

Now, if you want to side with the Debian folks on this, you're 
welcome to do that.  But no one in that camp is going to be getting 
any sympathy from me.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From ptomblin at xcski.com  Sat Dec  9 02:04:51 2006
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 20:04:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <p06240501c19fa005a9bc@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
	<PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
	<20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<20061207215716.GB4057@patriot.net>
	<p06240501c19e607e612c@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061208125233.GA2132@patriot.net>
	<p06240501c19f29e5ba68@[10.0.1.11]>
	<87ac1y8hir.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<p06240501c19fa005a9bc@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <20061209010451.GB27742@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Brad Knowles (brad at shub-internet.org):
> At 11:43 AM -0500 12/8/06, John A. Martin wrote:
> >  See <http://packages.debian.org/unstable/mail/mailman> for a
> >  description of the Debian Mailman package that "integrates
> >  .... archiving ...".  Further down that page under the heading
> >  "Download mailman" click on one of the "list of files" buttons and see
> >  among other things: "usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py"
> 
> I've never claimed to be a Debian expert, and if they're mucking 
> about with packages that include certain features by default in order 
> to remove those features, then there's not much I can do to help the 
> poor souls that are stuck with that kind of stuff.

I don't know what John is experiencing, but I'm using Mailman installed
from Debian Stable, and have been for a couple of years, and it's always
had pipermail.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
"What we obtain too cheap we esteem too lightly; it is dearness only that
gives everything its value." - Thomas Paine.

From henrik.bechmann at sympatico.ca  Sat Dec  9 03:04:11 2006
From: henrik.bechmann at sympatico.ca (Henrik)
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 21:04:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with mailing lists general contact
	address
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612081457340250ff77d0dc@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200612081457340250ff77d0dc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BAYC1-PASMTP047401BF5F0823FEAA5EDF8CD20@CEZ.ICE>

Thanks Mark,

>>If VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW is set to Yes, the domain is the result of
looking up the host domain from the URL used to access the page.

This appears to be the case:

In fact if I access the page with mail.domainname.ca/mailman/, the 
contact address is mailman at mail.domainname.ca, whereas if I access the 
page with domainname.ca/mailman/listinfo (ie without the "mail." 
subdomain), the contact address shows as mailman at domainname.ca.

Reading the domain from the URL is desirable as I have a number of 
domain names associated with the account, and wish to have mailing lists 
set up for all or most of them. But is seems like what should be used is 
something like (in totally pseudo regex, I have no idea what the syntax 
is in python)

add_virtualhost('/(mail\.)?(*.)/', '$2')

Is this true? What would the entry look like? (I don't unfortunately 
have access to mm_cfg.py - is it in principle possible to have a 
mm_cfg.py for a user of a linux system -- ie for a web account). I would 
have to pass this on to the web host.

Then the other problem would appear to be that the default mail address 
(mailman at domainnname.ca) is not set up properly on creation of the mail 
list.

Does all this seem like a reasonable theory?

BTW, mail list creation is done through cpanel, so I presume the 
installation was done through cpanel as well. But I don't know for sure.

Also, yes I did make a typo with mail.mail.domainname.ca. I should have 
typed mail.domainname.ca. Sorry about the confusion.

>>Is the domain 'mail.domainname.ca' the correct domain
for mailing to your lists? If so, you don't want to change the
add_virtualhost entry; you need to add an alias or whatever to the MTA
for your domain for the mailman list.


I have no control over this, and am not sure of the question. The pop3 
(and SMTP) mail server is mail.domainname.ca. Would this interfere?

Lists are sent to mylist at domainname.ca, ie no "mail" subdomain is used 
for mailing to the lists. Does this answer that question?

>>You get the above message because the installation has only one site
list (mailman) for all supported domains and it is configured to
reject posts from non-members

The ideal would be to have mailman at domainname.ca go to the list owner 
associated with the domain name (ie multiple domain names on my web 
account), as opposed to my web account (in effect my web acount, read 
Linux user, is host to multiple domain names, but so, presumably, are 
other users on the same installation).

>>Yet, since this is presumably a cPanel Mailman, if it is the case that
the domain for mail to your lists IS mail.domainname.ca, you may be
able to solve the whole problem by just creating a 'mailman' list in
your own domain.


Sorry, don't quite get that. You mean create a list called 
mailman at domainname.ca, and this would pre-empt the central installation 
routing? And just make the list private, with only the owner as a 
recipient? This is an interesting possibility, though if I understand it 
right, the proper solution would be to have the mail list installation 
process check sendmail for the existence of a default address for the 
domain list administrator (mailman at domainname.ca) and create one if it 
doesn't exist. But I may not be understanding this properly. What about 
creating a sendmail account called mailman at domainname.ca? Would this 
pre-empt the mail from going to the installation-wide address? If this 
were the case, then the remaining problem would be the aforementioned 
assignment by add_virtualhost. True?

Thanks again,

All the best,

- Henrik

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Henrik wrote:
>   
>> When I set up a mailing list, the general contact address on the 
>> mail.mail.domainname.ca/mailman/listinfo page is listed as 
>> mailman at mail.domainname.ca, rather than mailman at domainname.ca.
>>     
>
>
> The domain in this address depends on whether or not
> VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW is set to Yes or No. The default is Yes. If you
> visit the http://www.example.com/mailman/listinfo overview page and
> you see only lists in the www.example.com domain, then it is set to
> Yes. If you see all the advertised lists on the server, then it is set
> to No (in mm_cfg.py).
>
> So, if VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW is set to No, the domain in the site list
> address is the result of looking up DEFAULT_URL_HOST in the
> VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary - i.e. it is the second argument from
>
> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, xxx)
>
> from mm_cfg.py (normally this is DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST).
>
> If VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW is set to Yes, the domain is the result of
> looking up the host domain from the URL used to access the page.
>
> In your case, assuming no typo above even though it looks strange,
> there is an entry in mm_cfg.py like
>
> add_virtualhost('mail.mail.domainname.ca', 'mail.domainname.ca')
>
> that should be
>
> add_virtualhost('mail.mail.domainname.ca', 'domainname.ca')
>
> instead.
>
> There is another possibility. This add_virtualhost entry also affects
> your own lists. Is the domain 'mail.domainname.ca' the correct domain
> for mailing to your lists? If so, you don't want to change the
> add_virtualhost entry; you need to add an alias or whatever to the MTA
> for your domain for the mailman list.
>
> On the third hand, I visited the listinfo page on the server at
> ns38.servepower.com, and it appears to be a cPanel mailman so I relly
> don't have a clue. See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.
>
>
>   
>> When I send a test email to mailman at mail.domainname.ca I get a bounce 
>> back with this message:
>>
>> This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.
>>
>> Delivery to the following recipients failed.
>>
>> mailman at mail.domainname
>>
>>
>> When I send a test email to mailman at domainname.ca I get a bounce back 
>> with this message:
>>
>> You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has
>> been automatically rejected.  If you think that your messages are
>> being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at mailman-owner at ns38.servepower.com.
>>
>>
>> I presume this is a configuration issue. Unfortunately I do not have 
>> access on the configuration server, and the webserve.ca support people 
>> seem to be at a loss as to what to do.
>>     
>
>
> You get the above message because the installation has only one site
> list (mailman) for all supported domains and it is configured to
> reject posts from non-members
>
> Yet, since this is presumably a cPanel Mailman, if it is the case that
> the domain for mail to your lists IS mail.domainname.ca, you may be
> able to solve the whole problem by just creating a 'mailman' list in
> your own domain.
>
>
>   
>> Judging from the fact that python's own mail list page uses 
>> mailman at python.org, I presume that the issue is faulty configuration of 
>> the general list contact address in the configuration file.
>>
>> Could someone explain to me how this can be fixed, so that I can pass it on?
>>     
>
>
> If the above doesn't do it, let us know what else you need.
>
>   

-- 

Henrik Bechmann
www.osscommons.ca
www.bechmannsoftware.com
Webmaster, www.dufferinpark.ca


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec  9 04:06:44 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 19:06:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with mailing lists general contact
	address
In-Reply-To: <BAYC1-PASMTP047401BF5F0823FEAA5EDF8CD20@CEZ.ICE>
Message-ID: <PC17602006120819064403904d652b92@msapiro>

Henrik wrote:
>
>>>If VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW is set to Yes, the domain is the result of
>looking up the host domain from the URL used to access the page.
>
>This appears to be the case:
>
>In fact if I access the page with mail.domainname.ca/mailman/, the 
>contact address is mailman at mail.domainname.ca, whereas if I access the 
>page with domainname.ca/mailman/listinfo (ie without the "mail." 
>subdomain), the contact address shows as mailman at domainname.ca.


Actually, my description in that reply was incomplete. I should have
added to the above

"and if the host domain is not a key in VIRTUAL_HOSTS, the host domain
itself is used"


>Reading the domain from the URL is desirable as I have a number of 
>domain names associated with the account, and wish to have mailing lists 
>set up for all or most of them. But is seems like what should be used is 
>something like (in totally pseudo regex, I have no idea what the syntax 
>is in python)
>
>add_virtualhost('/(mail\.)?(*.)/', '$2')


You need to do one of two things:

Either have one canonical host name per domain for web access, enforced
if necessary with rewrite rules in the web server, and then have one

add_virtualhost('web host name', 'corresponding email domain')

for each domain.

Or have two (assuming the email domain should be 'example.com')

add_virtualhost('example.com', 'example.com')
add_virtualhost('mail.example.com', 'example.com')

Note that it is OK to have two entries with the same email host if the
web hosts are different, but you can't have two entries with the same
web host as the second just replaces the first.


>Is this true? What would the entry look like? (I don't unfortunately 
>have access to mm_cfg.py - is it in principle possible to have a 
>mm_cfg.py for a user of a linux system -- ie for a web account). I would 
>have to pass this on to the web host.


There is one mm_cfg.py for the whole mailman installation. The only way
around this is to run separate instances of Mailman for separate
domains.


>Then the other problem would appear to be that the default mail address 
>(mailman at domainnname.ca) is not set up properly on creation of the mail 
>list.


It is not an attribute of the list at all. The local part is the name
of the site list and the domain is determined as above. This is all
determined on the fly when the listinfo page is sent.



>>>Yet, since this is presumably a cPanel Mailman, if it is the case that
>the domain for mail to your lists IS mail.domainname.ca, you may be
>able to solve the whole problem by just creating a 'mailman' list in
>your own domain.
>
>
>Sorry, don't quite get that. You mean create a list called 
>mailman at domainname.ca, and this would pre-empt the central installation 
>routing? And just make the list private, with only the owner as a 
>recipient?


Well, I didn't have enough information (and I still don't because I'm
shooting in the dark and don't know how cPanel does this), but I
thought your lists might be in the mail.domainname.ca domain and not
the domainname.ca domain. In that case, I was pretty sure you could
have created a mailman at mail.domainname.ca list. You may still be able
to create a mailman at domainname.ca list which would override the site
list for your domain.

I don't know if it would work or not, but the worst that can happen is
it won't create the list, or it will but mail will still go to the
site list.


>This is an interesting possibility, though if I understand it 
>right, the proper solution would be to have the mail list installation 
>process check sendmail for the existence of a default address for the 
>domain list administrator (mailman at domainname.ca) and create one if it 
>doesn't exist. But I may not be understanding this properly. What about 
>creating a sendmail account called mailman at domainname.ca? Would this 
>pre-empt the mail from going to the installation-wide address?


It might. You could try that.


>If this 
>were the case, then the remaining problem would be the aforementioned 
>assignment by add_virtualhost. True?


I think so.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jam at jamux.com  Sat Dec  9 04:17:00 2006
From: jam at jamux.com (John A. Martin)
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2006 22:17:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <20061209010451.GB27742@allhats.xcski.com> (Paul Tomblin's
	message of "Fri, 8 Dec 2006 20:04:51 -0500")
References: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
	<PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
	<20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<20061207215716.GB4057@patriot.net>
	<p06240501c19e607e612c@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061208125233.GA2132@patriot.net>
	<p06240501c19f29e5ba68@[10.0.1.11]> <87ac1y8hir.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<p06240501c19fa005a9bc@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061209010451.GB27742@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <87wt517o7n.fsf@athene.jamux.com>

>>>>> "Paul" == Paul Tomblin
>>>>> "Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)"
>>>>>  Fri, 8 Dec 2006 20:04:51 -0500

>>>>> "Alan" == Alan McConnell
>>>>> "Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)"
>>>>>  Fri, 8 Dec 2006 07:52:33 -0500

    Paul> Quoting Brad Knowles (brad at shub-internet.org):
    >> At 11:43 AM -0500 12/8/06, John A. Martin wrote:
    >> >  See <http://packages.debian.org/unstable/mail/mailman> for a
    >> >  description of the Debian Mailman package that "integrates
    >> >  .... archiving ...".  Further down that page under the
    >> >  heading "Download mailman" click on one of the "list of
    >> >  files" buttons and see among other things:
    >> >  "usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py"
    >>
    >> I've never claimed to be a Debian expert, and if they're
    >> mucking about with packages that include certain features by
    >> default in order to remove those features,

What makes you, Brad, think that Debian removes pipermail when shown
where it can be seen by anybody that it is included!  What mucking
about or other removal of features are you, or someone else, referring
to?

    >> then there's not much I can do to help the poor souls that are
    >> stuck with that kind of stuff.

The first recourse when having trouble with a Debian package should
not be to the upstream but to the Debian maintainers, usually via a
Debian Bug report.

    Paul> I don't know what John is experiencing, 

I am experiencing dismay at the innuendo followed by disinformation
with respect to the Debian Mailman package.

    Paul> but I'm using Mailman installed from Debian Stable, and have
    Paul> been for a couple of years, and it's always had pipermail.

Yes.  AFICT the absence of pipermail from the Debian Mailman is a
fantasy held only by Brad Knowles as the explanation for difficulties
experienced by a user who remarked as follows:

    Alan> 	mm 2.1.5 .  But under Debian, so it has
    Alan> 	experienced/endured the Debian security upgrade
    Alan> 	procedures.

        jam

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 154 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20061208/049b1c94/attachment-0001.pgp 

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Dec  9 05:28:19 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 22:28:19 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <87wt517o7n.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
References: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
	<PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
	<20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<20061207215716.GB4057@patriot.net>	<p06240501c19e607e612c@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061208125233.GA2132@patriot.net>	<p06240501c19f29e5ba68@[10.0.1.11]>
	<87ac1y8hir.fsf@athene.jamux.com>	<p06240501c19fa005a9bc@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061209010451.GB27742@allhats.xcski.com>
	<87wt517o7n.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
Message-ID: <p06240502c19fe5901b24@[10.0.1.11]>

At 10:17 PM -0500 12/8/06, John A. Martin wrote:

>     >> I've never claimed to be a Debian expert, and if they're
>     >> mucking about with packages that include certain features by
>     >> default in order to remove those features,
>
>  What makes you, Brad, think that Debian removes pipermail when shown
>  where it can be seen by anybody that it is included!  What mucking
>  about or other removal of features are you, or someone else, referring
>  to?

I didn't say that Debian did.  Alan McConnell said that Mailman had 
been installed without pipermail:

	Meanwhile, I am adminning(sp?), through my ISP, a new but
	quite active E-list.  But their mailman install is
	incomplete; they haven't put in Pipermail (about which
	I know _nothing_).

When asked what kind of whacked-out version of Mailman they were 
running that didn't include the built-in version of pipermail, he 
said:

	mm 2.1.5 .  But under Debian, so it has experienced/endured the
	Debian security upgrade procedures.

To which my reply was:

	Okay, now that is one of the most bizarre things I've heard of
	in a very long time.  I cannot comprehend how they could
	possibly ship a version of Mailman 2.1.x that does not
	automatically include the bundled Pipermail component.

This lead to your mildly offensive reply, where you publicly said:

	See <http://packages.debian.org/unstable/mail/mailman>
	for a description of the Debian Mailman package that
	"integrates .... archiving ...".  Further down that page
	under the heading "Download mailman" click on one of the
	"list of files" buttons and see among other things:
	"usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py"

Yet nowhere on that page do I find any reference to pipermail.  If 
you had wanted to provide proof that Debian provides pipermail as 
part of the package, you should have been much less obtuse and 
offensive with your language, and much more explicit in the URL you 
provided.

Based on what I saw on that page, and the rude behaviour I was seeing 
from you, I concluded that Debian had actually done precisely what I 
had previously commented on to Alan, and led to my response:

	I've never claimed to be a Debian expert, and if they're
	mucking about with packages that include certain features
	by default in order to remove those features, then there's
	not much I can do to help the poor souls that are stuck
	with that kind of stuff.

	However, no amount of your expecting me to do "fact-checking"
	with the way that Debian is building their highly modified
	packaged versions of our software is going to change that.
	It's physically impossible to keep up with how every single
	vendor is choosing to ship our software.

Note that I do not, at any time, make an outright claim that Debian 
was stripping pipermail from the Mailman package that they were 
providing -- I said "... if they're mucking about with packages that 
include certain features by default to remove those features...".

Obviously the subtle difference in this statement was completely lost on you.

>  The first recourse when having trouble with a Debian package should
>  not be to the upstream but to the Debian maintainers, usually via a
>  Debian Bug report.

I don't think it's appropriate for us to be filing bug reports on 
these sorts of things with package maintainers of a given platform. 
If the users of those packages wish to file bug reports, I would 
fully support that.  If the package maintainers wish to come back to 
us and file bug reports against our code in our bug tracking system, 
I welcome that.

But no one here has the time to go tracking down every single bloody 
bizarre behaviour that may or may not be a result of something 
strange that a package maintainer decided to do, and then to track 
them down and sit on them until they fix their "bug".


That is, unless you're volunteering to do that, of course.  If so, 
then please just go ahead and do so, and quit making worse a 
situation that is already pretty bad to begin with.

>     Paul> I don't know what John is experiencing,
>
>  I am experiencing dismay at the innuendo followed by disinformation
>  with respect to the Debian Mailman package.

If you want clarity in a discussion, it would really help if you 
would actually provide some measure of clarity in your own postings.


If I've made a mistake, and that fact is pointed out to me in a 
reasonably neutral and constructive way, I generally accept and even 
welcome the correction and genuinely work towards a good resolution 
to the problem.

However, if your first reaction is obtuse and offensive bluster with 
baseball bats, then you damn well better be prepared for the kind of 
reaction you're going to receive.

>     Paul> but I'm using Mailman installed from Debian Stable, and have
>     Paul> been for a couple of years, and it's always had pipermail.
>
>  Yes.  AFICT the absence of pipermail from the Debian Mailman is a
>  fantasy held only by Brad Knowles as the explanation for difficulties
>  experienced by a user who remarked as follows:

If there is anyone around here that is in any kind of fantasy state, 
that would be whatever psycho ward you live in, where you think 
you're going to win friends and impress people by baffling them with 
bullshit since you obviously are not capable of dazzling anyone with 
brilliance.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Dec  9 07:16:21 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2006 15:16:21 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <p06240501c19fa005a9bc@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
	<PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
	<20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<20061207215716.GB4057@patriot.net>
	<p06240501c19e607e612c@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061208125233.GA2132@patriot.net>
	<p06240501c19f29e5ba68@[10.0.1.11]>
	<87ac1y8hir.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<p06240501c19fa005a9bc@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <87hcw5bnm2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brad Knowles writes:

 > I've never claimed to be a Debian expert, and if they're mucking 
 > about with packages that include certain features by default in order 
 > to remove those features, then there's not much I can do to help the 
 > poor souls that are stuck with that kind of stuff.

That's not what they do.  Debian splits packages into components for
ease of maintenance of the package infrastructure.  Users are expected
to select "virtual" packages that cause a collection of components to
be installed.  By design, the package named mailman is either a
complete virtual package, or a single package that contains all of
Mailman.  A package named after the upstream package is intended to
install all of it.  It works.  The mailman package did install a
complete Mailman on several Debian systems where I use Mailman.

This is not the same as cPanel, which *does* deliberately inhibit
capabilities that Mailman admins need.  This is a situation where the
user misjudges what the bug is, and reports to the wrong channel.
It's not terribly nice of Debian to risk your time on their ability to
create robust, non-buggy virtual packages, but it is the result of
providing a service that the Mailman project does not, and should not.

This policy will occasionally result in the kind of problem we see
here.  It's a tradeoff.  You don't like it as it manifests on
Mailman-Users, and you shouldn't---all we're ever going to see here is
the bugs.  But all you need to say is "the Mailman project distributes
Mailman with the pipermail archiver included.  If you don't have it,
it is a packaging issue.  Your vendor Debian needs to know about it,
and you need to get support from them."

In sum, I think you are doing the Mailman project a disservice by
denigrating Debian.  If they're really doing their users such a
disservice, you (or somebody from Mailman who understands the issues)
should report it as a bug.  In my experience the various distros,
including Debian, are responsive to upstream maintainers.

Regards,


From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Sat Dec  9 07:31:34 2006
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2006 15:31:34 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006120815421900156ec90f62@msapiro>
References: <PC17602006120815421900156ec90f62@msapiro>
Message-ID: <457A5846.6060104@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi all,

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Todd Zullinger wrote:
>> Attached is the original message from the list mbox and one that I
>> munged up to included a content-type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii.
> 
> 
> I see the symptom with the original message. I'll look further, but it
> seems to have something to do with the fact that the first sub-part
> has no headers at all. I have looked at RFC 2045 and I don't see that
> any headers are required, but I don't yet know what the underlying
> issue in Scrubber is.
> 
It looks like the problem is something to do with email package 
behavior.  Here is a test code to reproduce the problem:

----------------
from email import message_from_string

s = '''MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="ABCDEFG"

Preamble

--ABCDEFG

A message without header

--ABCDEFG
Content-Disposition: inline

Another text with a header

--ABCDEFG--
'''

m = message_from_string(s)
for p in m.walk():
     print p.get_content_type()
     if p:
         print p.get_payload(decode=True)

----------------

This program prints out like this:

multipart/mixed
None
text/plain
text/plain
Another text with a header

Note that 'A message without header' is not printed out.

If I remove 'If p:' and print the payload unconditionally, I get:

multipart/mixed
None
text/plain
A message without header

text/plain
Another text with a header

Here, the no-header part is printed out.

The patch of revision 7281 may have been over-protective against the 
bug-id: 1099138 in message reconstruction part (line 327 in 
http://mailman.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/mailman/branches/Release_2_1-maint/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py?r1=7207&r2=7281 
) but we may have to be paranoid against wired message like no-header 
text.  I believe well behaved MUAs won't generate no-header text parts. 
  (or, I believed ;-)

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/

From jam at jamux.com  Sat Dec  9 07:43:21 2006
From: jam at jamux.com (John A. Martin)
Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2006 01:43:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <p06240502c19fe5901b24@[10.0.1.11]> (Brad Knowles's message of
	"Fri, 8 Dec 2006 22:28:19 -0600")
References: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
	<PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
	<20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<20061207215716.GB4057@patriot.net>
	<p06240501c19e607e612c@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061208125233.GA2132@patriot.net>
	<p06240501c19f29e5ba68@[10.0.1.11]> <87ac1y8hir.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<p06240501c19fa005a9bc@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061209010451.GB27742@allhats.xcski.com>
	<87wt517o7n.fsf@athene.jamux.com> <p06240502c19fe5901b24@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <87odqd7enq.fsf@athene.jamux.com>

>>>>> "Brad" == Brad Knowles
>>>>> "Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)"
>>>>>  Fri, 8 Dec 2006 22:28:19 -0600

    Brad> At 10:17 PM -0500 12/8/06, John A. Martin wrote:
    >> >> I've never claimed to be a Debian expert, and if they're
    >> >> mucking about with packages that include certain features by
    >> >> default in order to remove those features,
    >>
    >> What makes you, Brad, think that Debian removes pipermail when
    >> shown where it can be seen by anybody that it is included!
    >> What mucking about or other removal of features are you, or
    >> someone else, referring to?

Oops.  The first sentence of mine above was intended to end with a
question mark rather than an exclamation mark.  Maybe that would have
sounded better.

    Brad> I didn't say that Debian did.  Alan McConnell said that
    Brad> Mailman had been installed without pipermail:

Does that mean that the Debian Package does not carry pipermail?

    Brad> 	Meanwhile, I am adminning(sp?), through my ISP, a new
    Brad> 	but quite active E-list.  But their mailman install is
    Brad> 	incomplete; they haven't put in Pipermail (about which
    Brad> 	I know _nothing_).

    Brad> When asked what kind of whacked-out version of Mailman they
    Brad> were running that didn't include the built-in version of
    Brad> pipermail, he said:

    Brad> 	mm 2.1.5 .  But under Debian, so it has
    Brad> 	experienced/endured the Debian security upgrade
    Brad> 	procedures.

Does that mean that the Debian Package does not carry pipermail?

    Brad> To which my reply was:

    Brad> 	Okay, now that is one of the most bizarre things I've
    Brad> 	heard of in a very long time.  I cannot comprehend how
    Brad> 	they could possibly ship a version of Mailman 2.1.x
    Brad> 	that does not automatically include the bundled
    Brad> 	Pipermail component.

Between you and Alan you suggest something that is not true.  You are
an authority on this list (and elsewhere).  Beginners will conclude
From your statement that they should avoid using the Debian package.
Whether that is good advice or not it is not justified by the line of
evidence above.

Excuse me if I have a tendency based upon the above to suspect a
readiness to assume that Debian does bizarre things when there is no
evidence supporting that assumption.

    Brad> This lead to your mildly offensive reply, where you publicly
    Brad> said:

    Brad> 	See <http://packages.debian.org/unstable/mail/mailman>
    Brad> 	for a description of the Debian Mailman package that
    Brad> 	"integrates .... archiving ...".  Further down that
    Brad> 	page under the heading "Download mailman" click on one
    Brad> 	of the "list of files" buttons and see among other
    Brad> 	things:
    Brad> 	"usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py"

I do not know what there is offensive and no offense was intended.  I
generally try to be precise and succinct.  If one clicks one of the
"buttons" mentioned, one sees a URL something like
<http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?searchmode=filelist&word=mailman&version=unstable&arch=i386>
(for the i386 architecture) which I thought was uglier than mentioning
the button to click at the URL I gave.

    Brad> Yet nowhere on that page do I find any reference to
    Brad> pipermail.  If you had wanted to provide proof that Debian
    Brad> provides pipermail as part of the package, you should have
    Brad> been much less obtuse and offensive with your language, and
    Brad> much more explicit in the URL you provided.

If you had bothered to click on one of the "list of files" buttons you
would have (for the i386 archetecture) seen the pipermail.py file as
the 19th of 3438 files.

    >> The first recourse when having trouble with a Debian package
    >> should not be to the upstream but to the Debian maintainers,
    >> usually via a Debian Bug report.

    Brad> I don't think it's appropriate for us to be filing bug
    Brad> reports on these sorts of things with package maintainers of
    Brad> a given platform.  If the users of those packages wish to
    Brad> file bug reports, I would fully support that.  If the
    Brad> package maintainers wish to come back to us and file bug
    Brad> reports against our code in our bug tracking system, I
    Brad> welcome that.

I agree with what you say in the paragraph above and would have
thought that went without saying.  However when packaging issues arise
I think it would be good to suggest that users of various
distributions should consult whatever support the distribution offers.
For the Debian Mailman package, which does not have a related Debian
mailing list, the Debian user should usually file a Debian Bug report.

Presumably the one having trouble with a Debian package is a Debian
user not the "us" which I take to mean you and the Mailman community
as a whole.

I've said enough.  My enthusiasm is well restrained when it is
necessary to craft each sentence such that nothing can be made out of
it besides what was intended.

        jam
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 154 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20061209/322cdae5/attachment.pgp 

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Dec  9 09:48:23 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 02:48:23 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <87odqd7enq.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
References: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
	<PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
	<20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<20061207215716.GB4057@patriot.net>	<p06240501c19e607e612c@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061208125233.GA2132@patriot.net>	<p06240501c19f29e5ba68@[10.0.1.11]>
	<87ac1y8hir.fsf@athene.jamux.com>	<p06240501c19fa005a9bc@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061209010451.GB27742@allhats.xcski.com>
	<87wt517o7n.fsf@athene.jamux.com> <p06240502c19fe5901b24@[10.0.1.11]>
	<87odqd7enq.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
Message-ID: <p06240500c1a0229d6a06@[10.0.1.11]>

At 1:43 AM -0500 12/9/06, John A. Martin wrote:

>  Oops.  The first sentence of mine above was intended to end with a
>  question mark rather than an exclamation mark.  Maybe that would have
>  sounded better.

That would have been somewhat better, yes.

>     Brad> I didn't say that Debian did.  Alan McConnell said that
>     Brad> Mailman had been installed without pipermail:
>
>  Does that mean that the Debian Package does not carry pipermail?

In and of itself, no.  It simply means that Alan didn't have 
pipermail available to him.

>     Brad> When asked what kind of whacked-out version of Mailman they
>     Brad> were running that didn't include the built-in version of
>     Brad> pipermail, he said:
>
>     Brad> 	mm 2.1.5 .  But under Debian, so it has
>     Brad> 	experienced/endured the Debian security upgrade
>     Brad> 	procedures.
>
>  Does that mean that the Debian Package does not carry pipermail?

In and of itself, no.  But it did certainly strengthen my belief that 
we were talking about a standard Mailman package as provided by 
Debian, yes.

>  Between you and Alan you suggest something that is not true.  You are
>  an authority on this list (and elsewhere).  Beginners will conclude
>  From your statement that they should avoid using the Debian package.
>  Whether that is good advice or not it is not justified by the line of
>  evidence above.

A lot depends on the circumstances under which you read the given 
messages.  You took away one particular set of conclusions, and I 
took away a different set.

But then I most definitely felt strongly attacked in your follow-on response.

>  Excuse me if I have a tendency based upon the above to suspect a
>  readiness to assume that Debian does bizarre things when there is no
>  evidence supporting that assumption.

You didn't see any evidence.  But just because you didn't see it 
didn't necessarily mean that it wasn't there.  And just because I saw 
what appeared to be such evidence, doesn't necessarily mean that I 
was (or was not) wrong.

But the fact that I came to what we now understand to be an erroneous 
conclusion does not let you off the hook for the manner in which you 
responded.

>  I do not know what there is offensive and no offense was intended.

Your private reply was considerably more offensive than the public 
one, but I certainly felt what I believed to be a pretty strong 
current of intentionally implied offense.

Of course, we all know about the vagaries of human communications, 
and how 99% of that is lost via mechanisms such as e-mail.  And 
that's a sword that cuts both ways.

>  I generally try to be precise and succinct.

I think you and I may suffer the same disease here.  We both seem to 
appreciate precision and brevity, but I believe we both have a 
tendency to verbosity.  And through verbosity, I think we may both 
have a tendency to be less clear to others than we would like, or 
than we appear to ourselves.

We both need editors.  Strong ones.  The kind of editor that Tom 
Clancy used to have, before he became really famous -- and rich.  The 
kind of editor that would force us to fight to the death for each and 
every word, and only let us win the battles that we really should win.

I'm not convinced that either of us is a particularly good 
self-editor, at least not all the time.  And that may sometimes have 
certain negative consequences, as we have seen.

>                                               If one clicks one of the
>  "buttons" mentioned, one sees a URL something like
> 
><http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?searchmode=filelist&word=mailman&version=unstable&arch=i386>
>  (for the i386 architecture) which I thought was uglier than mentioning
>  the button to click at the URL I gave.

I did that.  And I didn't see Pipermail.py anywhere on that page. 
I'm sure that if I went through the complete list of fifty-plus 
pages, or had seen the "all files" link, and then done a "find" 
within the page, then I would have found the module in question.  But 
that didn't happen.

Since you obviously did find the file in question, and therefore you 
obviously had the URL to the page where that could be found, and you 
recognized that the URL in question was long and unwieldy, you could 
easily have short-circuited the whole mess by putting that through a 
facility like tinyurl.com.


In fact, this whole business could have been stopped dead in it's 
tracks, by a simple response to the effect of:

	Uh, sorry -- I have to disagree.  I don't mean to offend anyone,
	but Debian does provide pipermail as a standard part of the
	package, such as shown at <http://tinyurl.com/yfrdxw>, then do
	a "find" within the page for "pipermail".

	Hope that helps.

And you could shorten that down even further.

>  If you had bothered to click on one of the "list of files" buttons you
>  would have (for the i386 archetecture) seen the pipermail.py file as
>  the 19th of 3438 files.

As I said, I did that.  And I did a find within the page.  And 
"pipermail" didn't show up anywhere on the page I went to.

If you're going to give me an URL and expect me to find something 
there, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that I should 
actually be able to find the thing there that I am expected to find. 
And if you want me to find something, I don't think it's unreasonable 
to ask that you be a bit more precise in giving me something that 
will allow me to more easily find it.

>     Brad> I don't think it's appropriate for us to be filing bug
>     Brad> reports on these sorts of things with package maintainers of
>     Brad> a given platform.  If the users of those packages wish to
>     Brad> file bug reports, I would fully support that.  If the
>     Brad> package maintainers wish to come back to us and file bug
>     Brad> reports against our code in our bug tracking system, I
>     Brad> welcome that.
>
>  I agree with what you say in the paragraph above and would have
>  thought that went without saying.  However when packaging issues arise
>  I think it would be good to suggest that users of various
>  distributions should consult whatever support the distribution offers.

As you said, I would have thought that went without saying.  I think 
we're pretty explicit in that respect in the FAQ entries which talk 
about various vendor issues we've encountered in the past, and it 
would seem to me to be obviously as applicable to new situations as 
they occur.

That said, I think we should be able to agree that Alan is in a more 
unusual situation, where he's the unprivileged user of a system that 
is set up and administered by someone else, so it's not clear as to 
who should be filing which bug report with whom.  That's why he came 
to us for help.

>  For the Debian Mailman package, which does not have a related Debian
>  mailing list, the Debian user should usually file a Debian Bug report.

Right, but who is the "Debian user" in this context?  Who has the 
responsibility and authority to file the appropriate bug report?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Dec  9 10:00:37 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 03:00:37 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <87hcw5bnm2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
	<PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
	<20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<20061207215716.GB4057@patriot.net>	<p06240501c19e607e612c@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061208125233.GA2132@patriot.net>	<p06240501c19f29e5ba68@[10.0.1.11]>
	<87ac1y8hir.fsf@athene.jamux.com>	<p06240501c19fa005a9bc@[10.0.1.11]>
	<87hcw5bnm2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06240501c1a028f5e6a4@[10.0.1.11]>

At 3:16 PM +0900 12/9/06, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>                                The mailman package did install a
>  complete Mailman on several Debian systems where I use Mailman.

Understood.  At least, now I do.


The problem is that the conversation I had with Alan up to that point 
had lead me to believe that we were talking about a standard Mailman 
installation as provided in package format by Debian, and yet Alan's 
configuration clearly lacked what I consider to be a pretty important 
core component.

There's a disconnect there, but I wasn't seeing it.  And the way John 
approached the situation in his response was ... not appreciated.

>  This policy will occasionally result in the kind of problem we see
>  here.  It's a tradeoff.  You don't like it as it manifests on
>  Mailman-Users, and you shouldn't---all we're ever going to see here is
>  the bugs.  But all you need to say is "the Mailman project distributes
>  Mailman with the pipermail archiver included.  If you don't have it,
>  it is a packaging issue.  Your vendor Debian needs to know about it,
>  and you need to get support from them."

Actually, when all is said and done, I think John did have a valid 
point, and we need to modify this slightly.

We need to go further and tell them that this *may* be a packaging 
issue, and that they need to consult with their administrator or 
their vendor, or whomever actually installed the software or is 
responsible for administering the software and/or hardware, to 
confirm whether or not this actually is a standard version installed 
from a package somewhere, or if this has been customized by someone. 
If the former, then they would need to contact the vendor who created 
the package, otherwise they need to contact whomever did the 
customization.

But someone needs to find a simpler way to explain this.

>  In sum, I think you are doing the Mailman project a disservice by
>  denigrating Debian.  If they're really doing their users such a
>  disservice, you (or somebody from Mailman who understands the issues)
>  should report it as a bug.  In my experience the various distros,
>  including Debian, are responsive to upstream maintainers.

I still don't feel that we should be responsible for reporting bugs 
to all the hundreds or thousands of distributions, open source OSes, 
commercial OSes, etc....  I don't think that is a goal that would 
should even attempt to chase, because I don't believe that we could 
possibly have the resources necessary to begin to try to achieve it.

We are not the user of the Debian software in question.  We should 
not be required to report what we consider to be bugs through their 
tracking system.

Yes, there should be improved communication between our group and the 
respective parties at the various OS vendors and distributors, but 
that's also a two-way street -- if they're taking our code and making 
any modifications to it, then they should be feeding those back to us.


The real irony here is that I just remembered that at least one 
person responsible for maintaining the Mailman package for Debian has 
subscribed to the mailman-developers list and has started feeding 
back some changes into our system, based on things they've done.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From abid.ali at techaccess.com  Sat Dec  9 10:29:11 2006
From: abid.ali at techaccess.com (Abid Ali)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 13:29:11 +0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3706.1165518169.32030.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <07229155CFCD8046B9D61AE8A412E7F35EC615@taexchange1.techaccess.com>

Help

help



This message has been scanned for viruses by BlackSpider MailControl - www.blackspider.com

From tmz at pobox.com  Sat Dec  9 17:53:49 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 11:53:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue
In-Reply-To: <457A5846.6060104@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <PC17602006120815421900156ec90f62@msapiro>
	<457A5846.6060104@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20061209165349.GE18583@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
> It looks like the problem is something to do with email package
> behavior.  Here is a test code to reproduce the problem:

That's neat.  I like how you can do

if not p:
    print p

and it'll print out "A message without header".  :)

Would an (ugly, amateurish) work-around like the following be a start?
I don't know what sort of test message would trigger bug 1099138 so I
didn't test for that case to see that this wouldn't be a regression.
Also, this only gets the first message part from Werner's message to
show up in the archives, the second part is still scrubbed, but at
least there is a link to download it.

--- Scrubber.py~        2006-10-01 16:28:57.000000000 -0400
+++ Scrubber.py 2006-12-09 11:41:25.000000000 -0500
@@ -334,7 +334,12 @@
         text = []
         for part in msg.walk():
             # TK: bug-id 1099138 and multipart
-            if not part or part.is_multipart():
+            if not part:
+                try:
+                    part.as_string()
+                except:
+                    continue
+            elif part.is_multipart():
                 continue
             # All parts should be scrubbed to text/plain by now.
             partctype = part.get_content_type()

Thanks Mark and Tokio for digging into this.

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
Ever notice that even the busiest people are never too busy to tell
you just how busy they are?

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 542 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20061209/7fa1536f/attachment.pgp 

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec  9 18:09:27 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 09:09:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <p06240501c1a028f5e6a4@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <PC176020061209090927042122459e60@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>The problem is that the conversation I had with Alan up to that point 
>had lead me to believe that we were talking about a standard Mailman 
>installation as provided in package format by Debian, and yet Alan's 
>configuration clearly lacked what I consider to be a pretty important 
>core component.


As I tried to indicate in another post, there are possibilities other
than a defect/lack in the Debian package that can cause what Alan
observed.

To elaborate a bit on
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-December/054908.html>,
there are mm_cfg.py settings that can affect archiving in a particular
installation.

ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = -1
disables archiving completely

ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 1
disables pipermail leaving only .mbox archiving

DEFAULT_ARCHIVE = No
sets archive to No as the default for a new list, which setting might
be overlooked by an inexperienced list owner.

There are other settings that could cause pipermail archiving to fail
or be bypassed for a particular installation.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tmz at pobox.com  Sat Dec  9 18:38:43 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 12:38:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue
In-Reply-To: <20061209165349.GE18583@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
References: <PC17602006120815421900156ec90f62@msapiro>
	<457A5846.6060104@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
	<20061209165349.GE18583@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <20061209173843.GF18583@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Related to the second part of Werner's message being scrubbed with the
message:

    An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...

Poking in the email package (on python 2.4.4) shows:

    def get_content_charset(self, failobj=None):
        """Return the charset parameter of the Content-Type header.

        The returned string is always coerced to lower case.  If there is no
        Content-Type header, or if that header has no charset parameter,
        failobj is returned.
        """

This seems to violate section 5.2 of RFC 2045 which says parts lacking
a Content-type header should be assumed to be text/plain with a
charset of us-ascii.  The get_content_type method in email.Message
does mention RFC 2045 and uses text/plain if the content-type is
invalid.  Would it be appropriate to set failobj="us-ascii" when
calling this method in Scrubber.py?

BTW, if it's easier for you guys to track this in bugzilla, let me
know and I'll file on one SF.

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
The marvel of all history is the patience with which men and women
submit to burdens unnecessarily laid upon them by their governments.
    -- William H. Borah

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 542 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20061209/f4624887/attachment.pgp 

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec  9 20:09:23 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 11:09:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue
In-Reply-To: <457A5846.6060104@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612091109230437048604ec@msapiro>

Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
>
>This program prints out like this:
>
>multipart/mixed
>None
>text/plain
>text/plain
>Another text with a header
>
>Note that 'A message without header' is not printed out.
>
>If I remove 'If p:' and print the payload unconditionally, I get:
>
>multipart/mixed
>None
>text/plain
>A message without header
>
>text/plain
>Another text with a header
>
>Here, the no-header part is printed out.


The problem is that the 'truth' of an object that has a __len__()
method is "__len__() <> 0", and the __len__() method of an
email.Message object returns the number of headers.

One possible fix is to define a Message.__nonzero__() method in either
email.Message or Mailman.Message.Message as

    def __nonzero__(self):
        """Return True if the message has any headers or payload."""
        return len(self._headers) + len(self._payload)

since a __nonzero__() method seems to take precedence over a __len__()
method in determining the truth of an object.

Another possible fix in Scrubber.py is to change

        for part in msg.walk():
            # TK: bug-id 1099138 and multipart
            if not part or part.is_multipart():

to:

        for part in msg.walk():
            # TK: bug-id 1099138 and multipart
            if not part.get_payload() or part.is_multipart():

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec  9 20:30:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 11:30:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue
In-Reply-To: <20061209165349.GE18583@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612091130280328ef7f0fe4@msapiro>

Todd Zullinger wrote:
>
>--- Scrubber.py~        2006-10-01 16:28:57.000000000 -0400
>+++ Scrubber.py 2006-12-09 11:41:25.000000000 -0500
>@@ -334,7 +334,12 @@
>         text = []
>         for part in msg.walk():
>             # TK: bug-id 1099138 and multipart
>-            if not part or part.is_multipart():
>+            if not part:
>+                try:
>+                    part.as_string()
>+                except:
>+                    continue
>+            elif part.is_multipart():
>                 continue
>             # All parts should be scrubbed to text/plain by now.
>             partctype = part.get_content_type()


In another reply, I suggested a simpler change

--- Scrubber.py~        2006-10-01 16:28:57.000000000 -0400
+++ Scrubber.py 2006-12-09 11:41:25.000000000 -0500
@@ -334,7 +334,7 @@
         text = []
         for part in msg.walk():
             # TK: bug-id 1099138 and multipart
-            if not part or part.is_multipart():
+            if not part.get_payload() or part.is_multipart():
                 continue
             # All parts should be scrubbed to text/plain by now.
             partctype = part.get_content_type()

but I'm not sure. This will discard a part with an 'empty' payload as
well as a part with payload = None. The argument for doing this is no
real harm is done by discarding this 'empty' payload, and we probably
don't want to replace it with a link in any case which might happen if
we leave it.

In order to fix the bug we really only need to skip parts with payload
= None so if we want to keep the 'empty' part, the fix should be

--- Scrubber.py~        2006-10-01 16:28:57.000000000 -0400
+++ Scrubber.py 2006-12-09 11:41:25.000000000 -0500
@@ -334,7 +334,7 @@
         text = []
         for part in msg.walk():
             # TK: bug-id 1099138 and multipart
-            if not part or part.is_multipart():
+            if part.get_payload() == None or part.is_multipart():
                 continue
             # All parts should be scrubbed to text/plain by now.
             partctype = part.get_content_type()

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec  9 20:40:12 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 11:40:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue
In-Reply-To: <20061209173843.GF18583@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602006120911401205465ce1c4ae@msapiro>

Todd Zullinger wrote:
>
>Related to the second part of Werner's message being scrubbed with the
>message:
>
>    An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
>
>Poking in the email package (on python 2.4.4) shows:
>
>    def get_content_charset(self, failobj=None):
>        """Return the charset parameter of the Content-Type header.
>
>        The returned string is always coerced to lower case.  If there is no
>        Content-Type header, or if that header has no charset parameter,
>        failobj is returned.
>        """
>
>This seems to violate section 5.2 of RFC 2045 which says parts lacking
>a Content-type header should be assumed to be text/plain with a
>charset of us-ascii.  The get_content_type method in email.Message
>does mention RFC 2045 and uses text/plain if the content-type is
>invalid.


It does seem inconsistent, but I don't think we can call it a violation
of the RFC yet, it depends on what the caller does with it.


>Would it be appropriate to set failobj="us-ascii" when
>calling this method in Scrubber.py?


It might be, but I'd like to hear from Tokio first.

Clearly this was considered at one point as a specific case and message
exist for it where it would have been simpler to just assume it is
us-ascii. Thus, I think there must be messages in the wild with parts
with unspecified character sets that aren't us-ascii.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From alan at patriot.net  Fri Dec  8 00:27:30 2006
From: alan at patriot.net (Alan McConnell)
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 18:27:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <C7181EBB-4955-4ED5-88B2-CB41C10EC8CB@python.org>
References: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
	<PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
	<20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<20061207215716.GB4057@patriot.net>
	<20061207222206.GA10945@allhats.xcski.com>
	<C7181EBB-4955-4ED5-88B2-CB41C10EC8CB@python.org>
Message-ID: <20061207232730.GA4461@patriot.net>

On Thu, Dec 07, 2006 at 06:04:55PM -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On Dec 7, 2006, at 5:22 PM, Paul Tomblin wrote:
> 
> > I've just spent two days manipulating a bunch of mbox files into  
> > archives.
> > Let me tell you how it goes:
> 
> [Screams of pain omitted]
> 
> Have I mentioned recently how long I've been looking for a volunteer  
> to help make all this not suck?  ;}  Pipermail is just one of those  
> things that people either live with or ditch.
	Neither of you gentlemen is cheering me up!

The horrible news:  the mailman that I admin is run on my ISP.  The
chance that the PatriotNet people will reboot to get my archive in
order is . . .  not great, to say the least.

The less bad news: there are no archives existing on this list.
PatriotNet has just installed mailman(actually about two months ago)
and only one person(me) is AFAIK yelling for archives.

Alan, hoping for cheerier information

-- 
Alan McConnell :  http://patriot.net/users/alan
    "The intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."
    Impeachment proceedings should be started immediately.

From ptomblin at xcski.com  Sat Dec  9 21:11:34 2006
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 15:11:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some sort of spam filter,
	or a bounce I'm not seeing?
Message-ID: <20061209201134.GA23347@allhats.xcski.com>

Every time a message goes out to one person who is a member of my lists
(who has a uchicago.edu address), I see in the Postfix log what looks like
it should be a bounce:

Dec  9 15:00:45 xen1 postfix/smtpd[3315]: connect from relay01.uchicago.edu[128.135.12.136]
Dec  9 15:00:47 xen1 postfix/smtpd[3315]: DD9174F021A: client=relay01.uchicago.edu[128.135.12.136]
Dec  9 15:00:47 xen1 postfix/cleanup[3318]: DD9174F021A: message-id=<200612092004.AHW20671 at uchicago.edu>
Dec  9 15:00:48 xen1 postfix/qmgr[1276]: DD9174F021A: from=<>, size=5089, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Dec  9 15:00:48 xen1 postfix/smtpd[3315]: disconnect from relay01.uchicago.edu[128.135.12.136]
Dec  9 15:00:48 xen1 postfix/local[3319]: DD9174F021A: to=<partyhats-bounces at xen1.xcski.com>, orig_to=<partyhats-bounces at list.xcski.com>, relay=local, delay=3, status=sent (delivered to command: /var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces partyhats)
Dec  9 15:00:48 xen1 postfix/qmgr[1276]: DD9174F021A: removed

But then I don't see any mention of a bounce being recieved from her in
the mailman logs.  Is there some way to see if this is a bounce or if
there are bounces being recieved from her?  I've tried sending her direct
mail, and it doesn't bounce.  And she hasn't complained about missing any
messages from the mailing list.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
Welsh sheep aren't intellectuals. Welsh woodlice look down on them as
utter lusers. Welsh sheep even make students look smart, they're that
daft.  -- Dan Holdsworth

From dave at hamnet.org  Sat Dec  9 21:00:43 2006
From: dave at hamnet.org (Dave Foran)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 15:00:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin Page
Message-ID: <JAECKOFJECGOBNLONDHNMEDOCIAA.dave@hamnet.org>

Greetings
I am not if I have the correct list to ask this, but  ;-)

I host a couple of mailman lists   Seem to working just fine

I have 2 questions..

1 How you prune old messages from the archives.. Looks like you can just
delete them but!!!

2 I have lost a list name on the admin page  I think the list is still
working
   But the name is missing.  Any thoughts ??

THANKS

Dave




---
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Foran                                  Internet ONLY:dave at hamnet.org
                             Cruise Missile Coordinates 41.36.46N 81.25.53W 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

 


From dave at hamnet.org  Sat Dec  9 21:31:24 2006
From: dave at hamnet.org (Dave Foran)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 15:31:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin Page
In-Reply-To: <JAECKOFJECGOBNLONDHNMEDOCIAA.dave@hamnet.org>
Message-ID: <BOEALOCAPEOBAALIBMCOOELJCCAA.dave@hamnet.org>

Disregard

I got it fixed and arrgh  the system is corrupted and the user list is gone


Which now asks this question..  I have a system also using Smartlist.
While a bit of a stinker ( I took over the system from afreind who passed
away)

But the option I really do like is that every night the contents of the
users distibution list
is e-mailed to the list owner and the users are backed up into a 3 day
rotation..

Does mailman have a provision for backing up the users list on a daily basis


THANKS


-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+dave=hamnet.org at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+dave=hamnet.org at python.org]On Behalf Of
Dave Foran
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 15:01
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin Page


Greetings
I am not if I have the correct list to ask this, but  ;-)

I host a couple of mailman lists   Seem to working just fine

I have 2 questions..

1 How you prune old messages from the archives.. Looks like you can just
delete them but!!!

2 I have lost a list name on the admin page  I think the list is still
working
   But the name is missing.  Any thoughts ??

THANKS

Dave




---
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Foran                                  Internet ONLY:dave at hamnet.org
                             Cruise Missile Coordinates 41.36.46N 81.25.53W
---------------------------------------------------------------------------





From ptomblin at xcski.com  Sat Dec  9 21:47:24 2006
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 15:47:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin Page
In-Reply-To: <JAECKOFJECGOBNLONDHNMEDOCIAA.dave@hamnet.org>
References: <JAECKOFJECGOBNLONDHNMEDOCIAA.dave@hamnet.org>
Message-ID: <20061209204724.GA28994@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Dave Foran (dave at hamnet.org):
> 1 How you prune old messages from the archives.. Looks like you can just
> delete them but!!!

In the past, I've deleted them from the
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file, and then deleted the
entire archive and regenerated it with bin/arch.  That might be overkill,
but it worked for me.

> 2 I have lost a list name on the admin page  I think the list is still
> working But the name is missing.  Any thoughts ??

Did you mark it private?  If it doesn't show on the public listinfo page,
it doesn't show on the admin page either.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
One item could not be deleted because it was missing.
        -- Mac System 7.0b1 error message

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec  9 23:42:15 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 14:42:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some sort of spam filter,
	or a bounce I'm not seeing?
In-Reply-To: <20061209201134.GA23347@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006120914421503433c919986@msapiro>

Paul Tomblin wrote:

>Every time a message goes out to one person who is a member of my lists
>(who has a uchicago.edu address), I see in the Postfix log what looks like
>it should be a bounce:
>
>Dec  9 15:00:45 xen1 postfix/smtpd[3315]: connect from relay01.uchicago.edu[128.135.12.136]
>Dec  9 15:00:47 xen1 postfix/smtpd[3315]: DD9174F021A: client=relay01.uchicago.edu[128.135.12.136]
>Dec  9 15:00:47 xen1 postfix/cleanup[3318]: DD9174F021A: message-id=<200612092004.AHW20671 at uchicago.edu>
>Dec  9 15:00:48 xen1 postfix/qmgr[1276]: DD9174F021A: from=<>, size=5089, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>Dec  9 15:00:48 xen1 postfix/smtpd[3315]: disconnect from relay01.uchicago.edu[128.135.12.136]
>Dec  9 15:00:48 xen1 postfix/local[3319]: DD9174F021A: to=<partyhats-bounces at xen1.xcski.com>, orig_to=<partyhats-bounces at list.xcski.com>, relay=local, delay=3, status=sent (delivered to command: /var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces partyhats)
>Dec  9 15:00:48 xen1 postfix/qmgr[1276]: DD9174F021A: removed
>
>But then I don't see any mention of a bounce being recieved from her in
>the mailman logs.  Is there some way to see if this is a bounce or if
>there are bounces being recieved from her?  I've tried sending her direct
>mail, and it doesn't bounce.  And she hasn't complained about missing any
>messages from the mailing list.


There are a few possibilities. First is
bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner set to Yes for the list. If
not, and the bounce is not recognized as such, it will be silently
discarded.

Another possibility is the bounce is recognized, but because of
aliasing or forwarding or ? at the recipients end the address in the
bounce is not identically the same (except for case) as her subscribed
address. In this case the recognized bounce for a non-list-member is
silently discarded.

Yet another possibility is the DSN is a delay, not a failure so no
bounce is recorded.

If you really want to see the DSN, temporarily change the alias for
partyhats-bounces to go to you rather than to Mailman.	

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec  9 23:45:34 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 14:45:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin Page
In-Reply-To: <20061209204724.GA28994@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006120914453404213c9199e7@msapiro>

Paul Tomblin wrote:

>Quoting Dave Foran (dave at hamnet.org):
>> 1 How you prune old messages from the archives.. Looks like you can just
>> delete them but!!!
>
>In the past, I've deleted them from the
>archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file, and then deleted the
>entire archive and regenerated it with bin/arch.  That might be overkill,
>but it worked for me.


Also, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Dec 10 00:42:18 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 17:42:18 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061209090927042122459e60@msapiro>
References: <PC176020061209090927042122459e60@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240501c1a0f9f6dcda@[10.0.1.11]>

At 9:09 AM -0800 12/9/06, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  There are other settings that could cause pipermail archiving to fail
>  or be bypassed for a particular installation.

Correct.  However, my understanding at the time was that the 
pipermail functionality wasn't just disabled, it was never available 
in the first place because that component had somehow not been 
installed.  I think that misunderstanding was the key piece to the 
mess that followed.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Dec 10 00:47:59 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 17:47:59 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin Page
In-Reply-To: <BOEALOCAPEOBAALIBMCOOELJCCAA.dave@hamnet.org>
References: <BOEALOCAPEOBAALIBMCOOELJCCAA.dave@hamnet.org>
Message-ID: <p06240502c1a0faf217bc@[10.0.1.11]>

At 3:31 PM -0500 12/9/06, Dave Foran wrote:

>  Does mailman have a provision for backing up the users list on a daily basis

Not built-in, no.  But it would be simple enough to set up a daily 
cron job to run $MAILMANHOME/bin/list_members, however.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From msapiro at value.net  Sun Dec 10 00:06:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 15:06:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin Page
In-Reply-To: <BOEALOCAPEOBAALIBMCOOELJCCAA.dave@hamnet.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602006120915064104067412267f@msapiro>

Dave Foran wrote:
>
>But the option I really do like is that every night the contents of the
>users distibution list
>is e-mailed to the list owner and the users are backed up into a 3 day
>rotation..
>
>Does mailman have a provision for backing up the users list on a daily basis


Not out of the box, but you could add a cron job to run
bin/list_members and mail the result to the list owner. You could use
bin/list_lists to get the list names. something like

#!/bin/bash
prefix=/path/to/mailman
for list in `$prefix/bin/list_lists --bare`
do $prefix/bin/list_members -f -p $list \
| mail -s "Members of the $list list" $list-owner at example.com
done

You could also add something to that script to rotate a few generations
of $prefix/lists/$list/config.pck

cp $prefix/lists/$list/config.pck.2 $prefix/lists/$list/config.pck.3
cp $prefix/lists/$list/config.pck.1 $prefix/lists/$list/config.pck.2
cp $prefix/lists/$list/config.pck $prefix/lists/$list/config.pck.1

The config.pck file contains all the member data and the list
configuration basically everything about the list except archives,
held messages and pending requests.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Sun Dec 10 02:48:16 2006
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 10:48:16 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006120911401205465ce1c4ae@msapiro>
References: <PC17602006120911401205465ce1c4ae@msapiro>
Message-ID: <457B6760.3080407@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Folks,

I'm OK with changing the recomposing part in Scrubber.py:

if not part or part.is_multipart():
     continue

to

if part.is_multipart():
     continue

It looks like the email package is more robust than it was when the bug 
report was issued and the Scrubber code was patched.

But as to the default charset is 'us-ascii' problem, if we put the part 
together the parts, some language text (like japanese) become 
irreversibly unreadable.  It is safe to keep it in a separate file if 
you can't archive the whole message in multipart like in Pipermail.

Additionally, the diff file which was said to be lost in the first post 
is in:
http://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-users/attachments/20061207/6bd11edc/attachment.diff
I believe the folks in gnupg.org can fix the reference in the pipermail 
archive by fixing the PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL in mm_cfg.py and re-generating 
the archive by bin/arch --wipe command.


Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Todd Zullinger wrote:
>> Related to the second part of Werner's message being scrubbed with the
>> message:
>>
>>    An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
>>
>> Poking in the email package (on python 2.4.4) shows:
>>
>>    def get_content_charset(self, failobj=None):
>>        """Return the charset parameter of the Content-Type header.
>>
>>        The returned string is always coerced to lower case.  If there is no
>>        Content-Type header, or if that header has no charset parameter,
>>        failobj is returned.
>>        """
>>
>> This seems to violate section 5.2 of RFC 2045 which says parts lacking
>> a Content-type header should be assumed to be text/plain with a
>> charset of us-ascii.  The get_content_type method in email.Message
>> does mention RFC 2045 and uses text/plain if the content-type is
>> invalid.
> 
> 
> It does seem inconsistent, but I don't think we can call it a violation
> of the RFC yet, it depends on what the caller does with it.
> 
> 
>> Would it be appropriate to set failobj="us-ascii" when
>> calling this method in Scrubber.py?
> 
> 
> It might be, but I'd like to hear from Tokio first.
> 
> Clearly this was considered at one point as a specific case and message
> exist for it where it would have been simpler to just assume it is
> us-ascii. Thus, I think there must be messages in the wild with parts
> with unspecified character sets that aren't us-ascii.
> 


-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/


From tmz at pobox.com  Sun Dec 10 02:59:25 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 20:59:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612091130280328ef7f0fe4@msapiro>
References: <20061209165349.GE18583@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<PC1760200612091130280328ef7f0fe4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061210015924.GG18583@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> In another reply, I suggested a simpler change

Yeah, I should have just waited a little longer before posting a
half-baked diff.  :-)

> In order to fix the bug we really only need to skip parts with payload
> = None so if we want to keep the 'empty' part, the fix should be
> 
> --- Scrubber.py~        2006-10-01 16:28:57.000000000 -0400
> +++ Scrubber.py 2006-12-09 11:41:25.000000000 -0500
> @@ -334,7 +334,7 @@
>          text = []
>          for part in msg.walk():
>              # TK: bug-id 1099138 and multipart
> -            if not part or part.is_multipart():
> +            if part.get_payload() == None or part.is_multipart():
>                  continue
>              # All parts should be scrubbed to text/plain by now.
>              partctype = part.get_content_type()

That looks nice.  As Tokio has said since, the email package is
improved now and it may not even be necessary to test the get_payload
output.  That's up to you guys though, you've seen far more odd things
people try to archive than I want to see. :)

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
I got nasty habits.  I take tea at 3.
    -- Rolling Stones, Live with Me

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 542 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20061209/88a52245/attachment.pgp 

From tmz at pobox.com  Sun Dec 10 03:15:31 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 21:15:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006120911401205465ce1c4ae@msapiro>
References: <20061209173843.GF18583@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<PC17602006120911401205465ce1c4ae@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061210021531.GH18583@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Todd Zullinger wrote:
[...]
>>Poking in the email package (on python 2.4.4) shows:
>>
>>    def get_content_charset(self, failobj=None):
>>        """Return the charset parameter of the Content-Type header.
>>
>>        The returned string is always coerced to lower case.  If there is no
>>        Content-Type header, or if that header has no charset parameter,
>>        failobj is returned.
>>        """
>>
>>This seems to violate section 5.2 of RFC 2045 which says parts
>>lacking a Content-type header should be assumed to be text/plain
>>with a charset of us-ascii.  The get_content_type method in
>>email.Message does mention RFC 2045 and uses text/plain if the
>>content-type is invalid.
> 
> It does seem inconsistent, but I don't think we can call it a
> violation of the RFC yet, it depends on what the caller does with
> it.

You're correct that violate is probably the wrong word.  It doesn't
make the assumption the RFC calls for, but it does allow the user to
change that.  I imagine that the code is written the way it is due to
the types of inconsistencies and flagrant violations one sees in the
reality of MIME parts.  If only it were simple enough to just write to
the standard and have things just work. :)

>>Would it be appropriate to set failobj="us-ascii" when calling this
>>method in Scrubber.py?
> 
> It might be, but I'd like to hear from Tokio first.
>
> Clearly this was considered at one point as a specific case and
> message exist for it where it would have been simpler to just assume
> it is us-ascii. Thus, I think there must be messages in the wild
> with parts with unspecified character sets that aren't us-ascii.

That reminds me, I looked at bug 1099138 to see if there was a test
case message that I could use to ensure any changes I made didn't
cause a regression.  Would it be good to have more test case messages
around that could be checked whenever stuff like this comes up?  That
way when something is changed to fix one issue it can be checked
against the previous messages to ensure it doesn't break them.  I was
envisioning something like a dir correlating to the bug id that
contained messages which triggered it.  There are some in the tests/
dir, but not a lot it seems.

Or is that a lot more work than it's worth?

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
The law will never make men free; it is men who have got to make the
law free.
    -- Henry David Thoreau

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 542 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20061209/42db0535/attachment.pgp 

From tmz at pobox.com  Sun Dec 10 03:35:09 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 21:35:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue
In-Reply-To: <457B6760.3080407@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <PC17602006120911401205465ce1c4ae@msapiro>
	<457B6760.3080407@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20061210023509.GI18583@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
> Folks,
> 
> I'm OK with changing the recomposing part in Scrubber.py:
> 
> if not part or part.is_multipart():
>      continue
> 
> to
> 
> if part.is_multipart():
>      continue
> 
> It looks like the email package is more robust than it was when the
> bug report was issued and the Scrubber code was patched.

Yay for increased robustness! :)

The Mailman README still says the base Python requirement is 2.1.3 or
above.  I saw in the comments of bug 1099138 that email 2.5 could
still produce None payloads.  Does that mean it's only save to omit
the "not part" test if the site's python install carries email 3?

> But as to the default charset is 'us-ascii' problem, if we put the part 
> together the parts, some language text (like japanese) become 
> irreversibly unreadable.  It is safe to keep it in a separate file if 
> you can't archive the whole message in multipart like in Pipermail.

Okay, that's understandable.

> Additionally, the diff file which was said to be lost in the first
> post is in:
> http://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-users/attachments/20061207/6bd11edc/attachment.diff
> I believe the folks in gnupg.org can fix the reference in the
> pipermail archive by fixing the PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL in mm_cfg.py and
> re-generating the archive by bin/arch --wipe command.

Yeah, there are a few issues with some of the list or site settings
there.  I will mention this to the list/site owner (who are both
pretty much just Werner - he's a very busy fellow!) and offer any help
I can to get that stuff straightened out.

Having the diff available that way would be better than nothing.
Though it still seems less than optimal to scrub it and make it an
attachment rather than display it inline like the content-disposition
header requests as it does seem to be quite valid by the RFC.

On the other hand, it might be easier to verify the sig if the diff
file is linked and downloaded so I should be careful what I wish for
here.  :)

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
Man has made use of his intelligence, he invented stupidity.
    -- Remy De Gourmant

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 542 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20061209/4d93a508/attachment.pgp 

From tmz at pobox.com  Sun Dec 10 04:15:16 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 22:15:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue
In-Reply-To: <20061210023509.GI18583@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
References: <PC17602006120911401205465ce1c4ae@msapiro>
	<457B6760.3080407@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
	<20061210023509.GI18583@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <20061210031516.GK18583@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

I wrote:
> Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
[...]
>> But as to the default charset is 'us-ascii' problem, if we put the
>> part together the parts, some language text (like japanese) become
>> irreversibly unreadable.  It is safe to keep it in a separate file
>> if you can't archive the whole message in multipart like in
>> Pipermail.
> 
> Okay, that's understandable.

Just another thought (because I realize now that I don't understand
this as well as I thought at first :)...

Are you saying there are messages which would lack a charset in a
content-type header and include Japanese text?  I wouldn't think they
would be valid if they didn't.  But I may not understand the types of
message structures you mean.

If the email parsing were to assume that lacking a content-type header
the part should be assumed to be text/plain and us-ascii, would this
break valid messages or only invalid ones (not that invalid ones could
necessarily be ignored, particularly if they were a significant
portion of the messages seen in reality :).

I'd be grateful if you could enlighten me on this.

Thanks,

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always
declares that it is his duty.
    -- George Bernard Shaw

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 542 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20061209/1cfd3da9/attachment.pgp 

From aaron at mutualaid.org  Sun Dec 10 04:23:00 2006
From: aaron at mutualaid.org (aaron at mutualaid.org)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 19:23:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mangled email addresses
Message-ID: <1403.75.39.41.206.1165720980.squirrel@mail.mutualaid.org>

I'm using Mailman 2.1.9. I've been getting reports from list owners of
lots of unexplained automated unsubscribes. While browsing trough
/logs/smtp-failure to look for clues, I came across many entries like
this:

Nov 09 09:31:48 2006 (2293) delivery to someone at email.comhmailto failed
with code 501: Bad recipient address syntax

But when I look at the list that this person is subscribed to, they are
subsribed with the email address someone at email.com - not
someone at email.comhmailto. So how is this email address getting mangled?

When I go to the Membership Management page for the list, there are
several invalid email addresses on the list (see attached) - could this
have something to do with it? I tried to unsubscribe the invalid
addresses, but am unable to do so. Anyway to manually remove these (since
they contain characters that I can not enter from shell)?

Thanks

- aaron

From msapiro at value.net  Sun Dec 10 06:09:45 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2006 21:09:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mangled email addresses
In-Reply-To: <1403.75.39.41.206.1165720980.squirrel@mail.mutualaid.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612092109450937e87c0e76@msapiro>

aaron at mutualaid.org wrote:
>
>I'm using Mailman 2.1.9. I've been getting reports from list owners of
>lots of unexplained automated unsubscribes. While browsing trough
>/logs/smtp-failure to look for clues, I came across many entries like
>this:
>
>Nov 09 09:31:48 2006 (2293) delivery to someone at email.comhmailto failed
>with code 501: Bad recipient address syntax
>
>But when I look at the list that this person is subscribed to, they are
>subsribed with the email address someone at email.com - not
>someone at email.comhmailto. So how is this email address getting mangled?


I don't know, but if you have strange addresses, this could be
affecting the recipient list  for the message in some way as you
suggest below.


>When I go to the Membership Management page for the list, there are
>several invalid email addresses on the list (see attached) - could this
>have something to do with it? I tried to unsubscribe the invalid
>addresses, but am unable to do so. Anyway to manually remove these (since
>they contain characters that I can not enter from shell)?


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.013.htp>.
It suggests several methods, some of which do not require entering
addresses in the shell. E.g.,

% bin/list_members -i listname | bin/remove_members -f - listname

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ralf.strandell at auriamail.net  Sun Dec 10 11:07:36 2006
From: ralf.strandell at auriamail.net (Ralf Strandell)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 12:07:36 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman in a webhotel? I need some guidance in
	configuring the thing...
Message-ID: <17256378.1165745256430.JavaMail.dynamo@tochiro.loopm.com>

Hi

I have a few basic questions at the bottom of this message.

But first some background:

TASK: I would like to set up two secure mailing lists with post archives and all that on my webhotel account. I would also need to transfer a few thousand important messages from our Yahoo groups lists to our new mailing list archives. I would like to do this with Mailman.

WHY: The ownership of the Yahoogroups accounts are dependent on email accounts, and there is no way for an organization to officially own its lists - or to backup them or to archive them on certified archive paper. Thus we want to break out to freedom from Yahoogroups. Majordomo is offered at our web hotel, but Majordomo does not have an easily browseable and searchable archive (web-ui) with attachment downloads and all that. The authentication mechanism is also a joke/nightmare - email the passwords... HTTPS has been invented... Majordomo is probably susceptible to a targeted brute force attack, too. I haven't figured out how to import/export to/from majordomo either. So I'm hoping that maybe Mailman could solve most of these problems.

PLATFORM: Our site is hosted on a webhotel that offers DirrectAdmin with majordomo, Exim (MTA) and vm-pop3d. I have access to php, perl, python, shell, cron and pop3/imap/smtp servers. No root access. One user. One database shared with WordPress. Write access to database and home directory only.

QUESTIONS:
1) Can I install Mailman without root access?
2) How do I configure Mailman to be secure? What are the best practices (group ownerships etc) for hosted installations?
3) Could you please lead me to the relevant documentation...

Thanks


From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Sun Dec 10 14:30:18 2006
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 22:30:18 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue
In-Reply-To: <20061210031516.GK18583@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
References: <PC17602006120911401205465ce1c4ae@msapiro>	<457B6760.3080407@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>	<20061210023509.GI18583@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<20061210031516.GK18583@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <457C0BEA.50106@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Todd Zullinger wrote:
> I wrote:
>> Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
> [...]
>>> But as to the default charset is 'us-ascii' problem, if we put the
>>> part together the parts, some language text (like japanese) become
>>> irreversibly unreadable.  It is safe to keep it in a separate file
>>> if you can't archive the whole message in multipart like in
>>> Pipermail.
>> Okay, that's understandable.
> 
> Just another thought (because I realize now that I don't understand
> this as well as I thought at first :)...
> 
> Are you saying there are messages which would lack a charset in a
> content-type header and include Japanese text?  I wouldn't think they
> would be valid if they didn't.  But I may not understand the types of
> message structures you mean.
> 
> If the email parsing were to assume that lacking a content-type header
> the part should be assumed to be text/plain and us-ascii, would this
> break valid messages or only invalid ones (not that invalid ones could
> necessarily be ignored, particularly if they were a significant
> portion of the messages seen in reality :).

RFC822 email message without the charset parameter may be assumed to be
us-ascii.  But for the text attachment, it may or may not be assumed.
For example, mailman patch file within the i18n message directory will
have mixed charset like iso-8859-1 for fr directory and euc-jp for ja.
If you assume the charset is us-ascii and made archive with ? for
unprintable characters, the patch file cannot be used.  You are always
safe if you save the text file as is in a separate attachment directory.

In short, a text attachment is not a email message.

> 
> I'd be grateful if you could enlighten me on this.
> 
> Thanks,



-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sun Dec 10 15:15:25 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 23:15:25 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)
In-Reply-To: <p06240501c1a028f5e6a4@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <45770EDB.8020402@isu.edu>
	<PC1760200612071124300824a82989b6@msapiro>
	<20061207202142.GA28566@allhats.xcski.com>
	<20061207203740.GM20318@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<20061207215716.GB4057@patriot.net>
	<p06240501c19e607e612c@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061208125233.GA2132@patriot.net>
	<p06240501c19f29e5ba68@[10.0.1.11]>
	<87ac1y8hir.fsf@athene.jamux.com>
	<p06240501c19fa005a9bc@[10.0.1.11]>
	<87hcw5bnm2.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06240501c1a028f5e6a4@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <87ac1vbzwi.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Brad Knowles writes:

 > The problem is that the conversation I had with Alan up to that point 
 > had lead me to believe that we were talking about a standard Mailman 
 > installation as provided in package format by Debian, and yet Alan's 
 > configuration clearly lacked what I consider to be a pretty important 
 > core component.

Right.  And because of the way that Debian handles complex packages
(Mailman qualifies, barely), it's quite possible that that would occur
as a bug.

 > We need to go further and tell them that this *may* be a packaging 
 > issue, and that they need to consult with their administrator or 
 > their vendor, or whomever actually installed the software or is 
 > responsible for administering the software and/or hardware, to 
 > confirm whether or not this actually is a standard version installed 
 > from a package somewhere, or if this has been customized by someone. 

Well, pedantically you're right.  So, if the person is on a system
that supports locate, tell them to "locate pipermail.py".  If it
doesn't show up or is in a bizarre place, send them to the distro.
But my experience with XEmacs is that 95% complaints about missing
components that appear to be packaging problems *are* packaging
problems.[1] So I took the shortcut of saying "bounce it to Debian."

 > But someone needs to find a simpler way to explain this.

I don't think it's possible.  Someone who uses a distro, discovers the
package is missing functionality, and reports to Mailman first has a
clue loose.  That's no sin, but it does imply that they're likely to
need hand holding to even understand why it's hardly likely to be a
Mailman issue.

 > I still don't feel that we should be responsible for reporting bugs 
 > to all the hundreds or thousands of distributions, open source OSes, 
 > commercial OSes, etc....

Not all the bugs.  Most bugs are the users' place to report.  But
reports of packaging bugs where it's a matter of judgment as to what a
minimal package includes, or what features should be in by default,
are best informed by the kind of experience the developers have.  As I
wrote, my opinion is informed by great responsiveness from several
distros, with respect to XEmacs.  And the kind of bug that justifies
direct attention from the upstream maintainer/support (rather than
telling the user to report to the distro) is not that frequent.

N.B.  This is very similar to what's being discussed on python-dev
regarding Python project input into the Linux Standard Base.  Clearly
the consensus there is that they should provide some input (though
they haven't decided what the content should be yet).

Also, in my experience on both sides of the dialog, upstream
maintainers are likely to get more attention from downstream than
downstream's ordinary users are.

 > We are not the user of the Debian software in question.  We should 
 > not be required to report what we consider to be bugs through their 
 > tracking system.

Not *required*, but if a report *from* us prevents 10 reports *to* us,
maybe that's a worthwhile tradeoff.

 > that's also a two-way street -- if they're taking our code and making 
 > any modifications to it, then they should be feeding those back to us.

Functionality, yes.  Packaging?  I think not.  But most changes (by
Debian, at least) are for integration into a specific environment, not
actually fixes or enhancements.  It's unfortunate, but not surprising,
that sometimes distros get a little lazy about reporting to upstream.

Footnotes: 
[1]  In XEmacs's case, they're often *our* bugs.  But Mailman's only
distribution has batteries included; missing functionality is not a
Mailman bug.


From tmz at pobox.com  Sun Dec 10 16:21:12 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 10:21:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue
In-Reply-To: <457C0BEA.50106@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <PC17602006120911401205465ce1c4ae@msapiro>
	<457B6760.3080407@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
	<20061210023509.GI18583@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<20061210031516.GK18583@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<457C0BEA.50106@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20061210152112.GB5819@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
> RFC822 email message without the charset parameter may be assumed to
> be us-ascii.  But for the text attachment, it may or may not be
> assumed.  For example, mailman patch file within the i18n message
> directory will have mixed charset like iso-8859-1 for fr directory
> and euc-jp for ja.  If you assume the charset is us-ascii and made
> archive with ? for unprintable characters, the patch file cannot be
> used.  You are always safe if you save the text file as is in a
> separate attachment directory.
> 
> In short, a text attachment is not a email message.

I may be completely missing something then, but wouldn't a text
attachment be just another MIME part?  Wouldn't that MIME part follow
RFC 2045?  So section 5.2 of the RFC would apply to those parts and
lacking a content-type header (header as used in the RFC applies to
the main mail header and those used in body parts, AIUI) are to be
assumed as text/plain; charset=us-ascii.

It may be that there are many MUA's that don't do this correctly and
thus Mailman can't afford to make the "correct" assumption according
to the RFC, but those sending MUA's would be doing the wrong thing as
far as I can see, no?

I plan on contacting the Gnus folks and mentioning that adding a
content-type header would help to avoid any confusion, but I want to
be prepared to respond half-intelligently if someone points out that
the RFC says without one it should be assumed as text/plain and
us-ascii.

I'm reminded of the despair.com poster with a slogan like "There are
no stupid questions, but there sure are a lot of inquisitive idiots."

Thank you for your patience in indulging this inquisitive idiot. :-)

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
Sanity is the trademark of a weak mind.
    -- Mark Harrold

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 542 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20061210/531f94be/attachment.pgp 

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sun Dec 10 20:51:00 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 13:51:00 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman in a webhotel? I need some guidance in
 configuring the thing...
In-Reply-To: <17256378.1165745256430.JavaMail.dynamo@tochiro.loopm.com>
References: <17256378.1165745256430.JavaMail.dynamo@tochiro.loopm.com>
Message-ID: <p06240502c1a214a8c162@[10.0.1.11]>

At 12:07 PM +0200 12/10/06, Ralf Strandell wrote:

>  1) Can I install Mailman without root access?

Not so far as I know.  You could do it at a site where they give you 
full administrator access to a virtual machine, however.

>  2) How do I configure Mailman to be secure? What are the best practices
>  (group ownerships etc) for hosted installations?

Your webhotel service would have to install Mailman, and they would 
need to be the ones to do the Mailman site administration functions. 
Once they've created the lists, they could leave most of the 
administration tasks up to you, however.  Of course, you would still 
need to depend on them for anything that requires access to the logs 
or priviledged access to the command-line functions, etc....

>  3) Could you please lead me to the relevant documentation...

I'm not sure that there is any relevant documentation for this 
particular configuration.  There is some partially relevant 
information found at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.024.htp>, 
and you may find other FAQ Wizard entries that are also useful.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From msapiro at value.net  Sun Dec 10 21:30:15 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 12:30:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue
In-Reply-To: <20061210152112.GB5819@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612101230150046a829869d@msapiro>

Todd Zullinger wrote:
>
>I may be completely missing something then, but wouldn't a text
>attachment be just another MIME part?  Wouldn't that MIME part follow
>RFC 2045?  So section 5.2 of the RFC would apply to those parts and
>lacking a content-type header (header as used in the RFC applies to
>the main mail header and those used in body parts, AIUI) are to be
>assumed as text/plain; charset=us-ascii.


I think this is correct, but...


>It may be that there are many MUA's that don't do this correctly and
>thus Mailman can't afford to make the "correct" assumption according
>to the RFC, but those sending MUA's would be doing the wrong thing as
>far as I can see, no?


Yes they would, but it's not that simple. For example, the MUA I'm
using to compose this message allows me to attach files. If I attach a
file to a message named example.txt, this MUA (notable for its
simplicity and small footprint) will base64 encode the file and add
part headers

Content-Type: text/plain;
	name="example.txt"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment;
	filename="example.txt"

Note that it doesn't specify a charset= parameter on the Content-Type:
header, and it really can't. Without asking me, the MUA doesn't know
the character set of the data in the file, and I may not know how to
answer if it does ask me. In fact, it's making an assumption to call
it text/plain just because its name ends in '.txt'. Now you might
think this is just one obscure MUA, but Thunderbird does essentially
the same thing:

Content-Type: text/plain;
 name="example.txt"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: inline;
 filename="example.txt"

as does Microsoft Outlook Express

Content-Type: text/plain;
	format=flowed;
	name="example.txt";
	reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: attachment;
	filename="example.txt"


So there are mainstream MUAs that don't specify the charset of a
text/plain attachment because they don't know what it is. Given this,
Mailman does the safe thing which is to save the contents of the part
as is rather than risking mangling it by trying to coerce it to
us-ascii.


>I plan on contacting the Gnus folks and mentioning that adding a
>content-type header would help to avoid any confusion, but I want to
>be prepared to respond half-intelligently if someone points out that
>the RFC says without one it should be assumed as text/plain and
>us-ascii.


What they really need to do is, as Tokio suggests, fix their mm_cfg.py
setting for PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL. It appears that what they have is

PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = '/pipermail/'

The Defaults.py setting  which normally doesn't need to be changed is

PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'http://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'

This would make the 'URL' of scrubbed attachments be a working,
clickable link in the archives (at least for new posts). If they
really want it to be a relative URL, they should at least have

PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = '/pipermail/%(listname)s'

so the list name is included, but then it won't be clickable in the
archive.

For other ill effects of the current setting, see the archives link on
the page at <http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users>

For an example of how this is supposed to work, see what
scrubber/pipermail does with your PGP signature at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-December/054956.html>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Sun Dec 10 21:49:50 2006
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 15:49:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman in a webhotel? I need some guidance in
	configuring the thing...
In-Reply-To: <p06240502c1a214a8c162@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <17256378.1165745256430.JavaMail.dynamo@tochiro.loopm.com>
	<p06240502c1a214a8c162@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <20061210204950.GB32349@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Brad Knowles (brad at shub-internet.org):
> At 12:07 PM +0200 12/10/06, Ralf Strandell wrote:
> >  1) Can I install Mailman without root access?
> 
> Not so far as I know.  You could do it at a site where they give you 
> full administrator access to a virtual machine, however.

I've done that.  I originally installed it on my home RedHat Linux
computer.  But as more and more sites started refusing email from dynamic
IPs, I got a virtual private server at linode.com with Debian installed on
it.  That worked very well for mailman, but some of my other things I was
doing on the linode didn't work so well, so now I've got a colocation box,
installed Debian and Xen, and the mailman lists are running nicely there.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
"We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not
because they are easy, but because they are hard...." - John F Kennedy

From msapiro at value.net  Sun Dec 10 21:52:21 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 12:52:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue
In-Reply-To: <20061210023509.GI18583@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <PC17602006121012522100465dfdd9c3@msapiro>

Todd Zullinger wrote:
>
>The Mailman README still says the base Python requirement is 2.1.3 or
>above.  I saw in the comments of bug 1099138 that email 2.5 could
>still produce None payloads.  Does that mean it's only save to omit
>the "not part" test if the site's python install carries email 3?


Mailman installs it's own Python email library in pythonlib/email/ and
sets paths so that this library is used in preference to the one in
the Python install.

Mailman 2.1.9 ships with email 2.5.8. The email 2.5.x version at the
time of Barry's comment was 2.5.6. I don't know if the change that
eliminates the None payloads is in email 2.5.8 or not.

I'm inclined to not omit the "not part" test, but rather to change it
in one of the two ways I suggested in
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-December/054934.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Mon Dec 11 01:45:24 2006
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 09:45:24 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006121012522100465dfdd9c3@msapiro>
References: <PC17602006121012522100465dfdd9c3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <457CAA24.2020900@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

> I'm inclined to not omit the "not part" test, but rather to change it
> in one of the two ways I suggested in
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-December/054934.html>.
> 

Well, get_something() is a heavy test and may fail while executing it.


-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/

From gordon.moyer at gmail.com  Mon Dec 11 03:13:35 2006
From: gordon.moyer at gmail.com (Gordon Moyer)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 18:13:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Filtering on subject prefix
Message-ID: <7cddbf800612101813y6bea9c54kc4f32c24ce58b6fd@mail.gmail.com>

I am running mailman 2.1.9 and I'd like to auto discard list emails
with a subject prefix of "***SPAM***" (this is being done by
spamasassin).  I've been looking for rule documentation, and haven't
been able to find any.

Can anyone tell me what the rule would look like that would filter on
this subject prefix?  ...Or maybe someone can point me toward any rule
documentation that exists.

Thanks for any help.

Gordon
Portland, Oregon USA

From tmz at pobox.com  Mon Dec 11 05:16:39 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 23:16:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A scrubber issue
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612101230150046a829869d@msapiro>
References: <20061210152112.GB5819@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<PC1760200612101230150046a829869d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061211041639.GF5819@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> So there are mainstream MUAs that don't specify the charset of a
> text/plain attachment because they don't know what it is. Given
> this, Mailman does the safe thing which is to save the contents of
> the part as is rather than risking mangling it by trying to coerce
> it to us-ascii.

Okay, thanks for the plentiful reasons to not make the assumption of
us-ascii.

>>I plan on contacting the Gnus folks and mentioning that adding a
>>content-type header would help to avoid any confusion, but I want to
>>be prepared to respond half-intelligently if someone points out that
>>the RFC says without one it should be assumed as text/plain and
>>us-ascii.
> 
> 
> What they really need to do is, as Tokio suggests, fix their
> mm_cfg.py setting for PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL. It appears that what they
> have is

Yep, I know that the gnupg.org lists have some configuration problems
that need fixed.  In the above I mean that I plan to contact the folks
who author Werner's MUA, Gnus (a mail client inside of Emacs -- and
here I thought Emacs was just an OS ;).  Sorry for not making that
clearer, I realize that mixing a discussion of GnuPG and Gnus can get
messy.

In addition to changes to the gnupg.org config, it could be helpful if
Gnus added content-type headers, as lacking them is what caused
Mailman to totally skip the first part in Werner's message.  I'll wait
to see what you and Tokio come up with to fix that within Mailman, but
it shouldn't hurt to mention it to the Gnus authors, as I know there
are many, many email parsers out there that are much less thoughtfully
designed than Mailman. :)

> For other ill effects of the current setting, see the archives link on
> the page at <http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users>

Yeah, I've been there and have offered to help out if I can to fix
those types of issues.  I first wanted to square away any potential
Mailman bugs so that I could add "apply the patch referenced in this
thread on mailman-users" in addition to suggesting some config
changes.

Werner may not wish to wipe and regenerate the archives, as he
mentioned that he noticed it would break all existing links into the
archives.

That is a hard choice to make - break any external links to your
archives or fix the broken internal ones by wiping and recreating
them.  I don't doubt that it'll get solved at some point though, after
reading the thread here a week or so ago.

> For an example of how this is supposed to work, see what
> scrubber/pipermail does with your PGP signature at
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-December/054956.html>

Indeed.  You helped track down and fix a small bug in the handling of
pgp/mime messages that included attachments not long ago.  As usual,
your patient and persistent help is very much appreciated!

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
Fleas can be taught nearly anything that a Congressman can.
    -- Mark Twain

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 542 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20061210/7daaa7f5/attachment.pgp 

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec 11 18:59:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 09:59:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Filtering on subject prefix
In-Reply-To: <7cddbf800612101813y6bea9c54kc4f32c24ce58b6fd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006121109590102653f47e76a@msapiro>

Gordon Moyer wrote:

>I am running mailman 2.1.9 and I'd like to auto discard list emails
>with a subject prefix of "***SPAM***" (this is being done by
>spamasassin).  I've been looking for rule documentation, and haven't
>been able to find any.
>
>Can anyone tell me what the rule would look like that would filter on
>this subject prefix?  ...Or maybe someone can point me toward any rule
>documentation that exists.


header_filter_rules have a regular expression (regexp) and an action.
The regexp is a Python regexp which is searched case insensitively
against the message headers including part headers of multipart
messages. See <http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html> for
documentation of Python regexp syntax.

In your case, you may want something like

  ^subject:\s*\*\*\*spam\*\*\*

to match a header that begins with 'subject:' followed by zero or more
whitespace characters (\s*) vollowed by three literal asterisks
followed by 'spam' followed by three more literal asterisks (although,
you probably want five asterisks, not three).

However, to get spamassassin flagged messages, I would use instead

  ^x-spam-flag:\s*yes$

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ben at graphicbliss.com  Mon Dec 11 21:26:10 2006
From: ben at graphicbliss.com (Ben Swihart)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:26:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off unsubscription confirmation
Message-ID: <457DBEE2.1020309@graphicbliss.com>

Hello,

Because we are unable to stop mailman from delivering e-mail command 
results to our subscribers, we have gone back to a confirmation system 
whereby an e-mail is sent to users when a subscription request is made.  
However, we feel that unsubscription confirmation is uncessary and the 
unsub e-mail is basically an extra step.  How do you turn off the unsub 
confirmation e-mail and keep the sub confirmation e-mail?

Thank you,
Ben

From dave at hamnet.org  Mon Dec 11 21:43:25 2006
From: dave at hamnet.org (Dave Foran)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:43:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off unsubscription confirmation
In-Reply-To: <457DBEE2.1020309@graphicbliss.com>
Message-ID: <MIELLMAKIBDLLMPKKHNPCEJMFBAA.dave@hamnet.org>

There is an option in the unscribe page that  toggles those 2 options on or
off

http://someuseslessdomain/mailman/admin/xxxxxxx//members/remove

xxxxx== list name

Dave



> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+dave=hamnet.org at python.org
> [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+dave=hamnet.org at python.org]On Behalf Of
> Ben Swihart
> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 15:26
> To: Mailman-Users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off unsubscription confirmation
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Because we are unable to stop mailman from delivering e-mail command
> results to our subscribers, we have gone back to a confirmation system
> whereby an e-mail is sent to users when a subscription request is made.
> However, we feel that unsubscription confirmation is uncessary and the
> unsub e-mail is basically an extra step.  How do you turn off the unsub
> confirmation e-mail and keep the sub confirmation e-mail?
>
> Thank you,
> Ben
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dave%40hamnet.org
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Dec 11 22:08:58 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 13:08:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off unsubscription confirmation
In-Reply-To: <457DBEE2.1020309@graphicbliss.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006121113085809537c52f253@msapiro>

Ben Swihart wrote:
>
>Because we are unable to stop mailman from delivering e-mail command 
>results to our subscribers, we have gone back to a confirmation system 
>whereby an e-mail is sent to users when a subscription request is made.


Now I'm really confused. I thought that what was happening before was
your users would submit a subscription request and receive a confirm
email saying they needed to reply (or visit a web link) to confirm
their subscription, and when they replied to the confirm email, they
would get both a 'results of your email commands' message and a list
welcome message, and you didn't want both. And I said I didn't
understand why the user was sent the 'results of your email commands'
commands message because it shouldn't be sent in this case.

Now it sounds like this is the system you have 'gone back to', so what
were you doing before?

Also, I was trying to work with you to find out what the problem is. I
asked some questions in my reply at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-December/054733.html>.
Did you answer these off list? There is nothing in the archive.
Anyway, they may not be the correct questions as it now seems I didn't
understand what you were doing.

  
>However, we feel that unsubscription confirmation is uncessary and the 
>unsub e-mail is basically an extra step.  How do you turn off the unsub 
>confirmation e-mail and keep the sub confirmation e-mail?


The only way for a user to unsubscribe without a confirmation is to log
in to her options page with her password and unsubscribe from there.
Any other unsubscribe method can be easily spoofed, thus a
confirmation is required. I don't know if you were avoiding this in
the past, and if you were, I don't know how, at least not without
modifying code.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ben at graphicbliss.com  Mon Dec 11 23:25:47 2006
From: ben at graphicbliss.com (Ben Swihart)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 17:25:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off unsubscription confirmation
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006121113085809537c52f253@msapiro>
References: <PC17602006121113085809537c52f253@msapiro>
Message-ID: <457DDAEB.505@graphicbliss.com>

Sorry if I confused you.  Allow me to clarify.  First, I am using 
version 2.1.9.cp1, which I don't think I have mentioned so far.

What I really wanted was to turn off unsubscription confirmations, as we 
don't feel there is a threat of malicious "spoof" unsubscribes on this 
particularly benign list about art events.  However, you can only turn 
off *all* confirmations (by selecting "None" in 'What steps are required 
for subscription?'), which I did and was experimenting with to see if it 
could work.  When I did this, e-mail command results were being 
e-mailed. Since I can't fix that problem, I have set "What steps are 
required for subscription?" to Confirm.

Thank you for answering my question - there is no way to turn off only 
unsubscription confirmation e-mails.

Note: I applied a patch and reviewed your previous e-mail (referenced 
below) and have followed instructions carefully and verified the code is 
as you have suggested. And restarted.

My problem is resolved, as far as this particular use of mailman.  
However, if you set mailman to show the None option and select it, that 
appears to cause the e-mail command results bug.

Thank you,

Ben


Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Ben Swihart wrote:
>   
>> Because we are unable to stop mailman from delivering e-mail command 
>> results to our subscribers, we have gone back to a confirmation system 
>> whereby an e-mail is sent to users when a subscription request is made.
>>     
>
>
> Now I'm really confused. I thought that what was happening before was
> your users would submit a subscription request and receive a confirm
> email saying they needed to reply (or visit a web link) to confirm
> their subscription, and when they replied to the confirm email, they
> would get both a 'results of your email commands' message and a list
> welcome message, and you didn't want both. And I said I didn't
> understand why the user was sent the 'results of your email commands'
> commands message because it shouldn't be sent in this case.
>
> Now it sounds like this is the system you have 'gone back to', so what
> were you doing before?
>
> Also, I was trying to work with you to find out what the problem is. I
> asked some questions in my reply at
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-December/054733.html>.
> Did you answer these off list? There is nothing in the archive.
> Anyway, they may not be the correct questions as it now seems I didn't
> understand what you were doing.
>
>   
>   
>> However, we feel that unsubscription confirmation is uncessary and the 
>> unsub e-mail is basically an extra step.  How do you turn off the unsub 
>> confirmation e-mail and keep the sub confirmation e-mail?
>>     
>
>
> The only way for a user to unsubscribe without a confirmation is to log
> in to her options page with her password and unsubscribe from there.
> Any other unsubscribe method can be easily spoofed, thus a
> confirmation is required. I don't know if you were avoiding this in
> the past, and if you were, I don't know how, at least not without
> modifying code.
>
>   

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Mon Dec 11 23:45:00 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 14:45:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off unsubscription confirmation
In-Reply-To: <457DDAEB.505@graphicbliss.com>
References: <PC17602006121113085809537c52f253@msapiro>
	<457DDAEB.505@graphicbliss.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20061211144009.065bc358@crimson-dragon.com>

Ben Swihart sent the message below at 14:25 12/11/2006:
>Sorry if I confused you.  Allow me to clarify.  First, I am using
>version 2.1.9.cp1, which I don't think I have mentioned so far.
>
>What I really wanted was to turn off unsubscription confirmations, as we
>don't feel there is a threat of malicious "spoof" unsubscribes on this
>particularly benign list about art events.  However, you can only turn
>off *all* confirmations (by selecting "None" in 'What steps are required
>for subscription?'), which I did and was experimenting with to see if it
>could work.  When I did this, e-mail command results were being
>e-mailed. Since I can't fix that problem, I have set "What steps are
>required for subscription?" to Confirm.
>
>Thank you for answering my question - there is no way to turn off only
>unsubscription confirmation e-mails.
>
>Note: I applied a patch and reviewed your previous e-mail (referenced
>below) and have followed instructions carefully and verified the code is
>as you have suggested. And restarted.
>
>My problem is resolved, as far as this particular use of mailman.
>However, if you set mailman to show the None option and select it, that
>appears to cause the e-mail command results bug.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Oh. cPanel.

That could very well be the problem here. The standard mailman 
installation form source gives two options on the Privacy Options 
Subscription Rules page. The first is for subscription with settings 
of "Confirm", "Require Approval" and "Both". It also gives a setting 
for confirming unsubscription with options of "Yes" and "No".

It may well be that cPanel does not expose both options. But since I 
do not have access to a cPanel installation, I can't say that for sure.

Since you are using cPanel, you may have to direct your query to them 
as the mailman developers know little about what cPanel has done to 
the mailman code base.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 12 00:12:21 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:12:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off unsubscription confirmation
In-Reply-To: <457DDAEB.505@graphicbliss.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006121115122100008f7c2ef5@msapiro>

Ben Swihart wrote:
>
>My problem is resolved, as far as this particular use of mailman.  
>However, if you set mailman to show the None option and select it, that 
>appears to cause the e-mail command results bug.


Aaahh - the light dawns. I didn't realize the 'command results' email
was in response to the 'subscribe' email. I thought it was in response
to a 'confirm' email.

So, yes, if you have ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE = Yes in mm_cfg.py and have
the list's subscribe_policy = None, you will get both a welcome
message and a 'results of your email commands' message in response to
a successful 'subscribe' command. Both the base code which avoids
sending a response to a successful 'confirm' if a welcome will be sent
and the patch which I sent which avoids responding to all successful
'confirms' only address 'confirm' commands, not 'subscribe' commands.

So yes, it may be a bug in that it is not necessary to send a 'results'
message if the subscribe requires no confirmation or approval and a
welcome will be sent, but it is not a bug in the sense of code not
working as intended, because it was never intended to recognize this
case and not send the results.

However, I'm still confused about unsubscription confirmation. The
list's subscribe_policy shouldn't affect this. It is affected by
unsubscribe_policy in that if unsubscribe requires moderator approval,
no user confirmation is required, but otherwise, confirmation is
required unless the users password was provided in the email
unsubscribe command or the user logged in and unsubscribed from the
options page.

Perhaps it is a cPanel modification to allow unconfirmed unsubscribes
when subscribe_policy is None.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From matt at rocafella.org  Tue Dec 12 00:18:03 2006
From: matt at rocafella.org (matt at rocafella.org)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 18:18:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pipelining with Mailman?
Message-ID: <61894.74.140.204.246.1165879083.squirrel@webmail.jbdesign.net>

Hi all,

I am in the process of converting an old script that reads thru a text
file and sends an email to a few thousand people (this is a legit business
opt-in newsletter).

I have a question regarding pipelining, etc.  If my mailing list has 600
subscribers from domain.com, will Mailman combined with my MTA (Postfix)
pipeline all of these messages that are destined to the same domain?  From
what I understand,  it will do this and send all of these messages with
one unique Message ID, instead of 300 separate Message Id?s.  This should
reduce the likelihood that the remote mail server will filter my emails as
spam.  Does this sound right?  I am basing my argument that we need to
switch to Mailman on the fact that the old script takes ages (several
hours) and that it is more likely to get us blacklisted because of the
method of sending mail that it uses.

Please help me make sense of this.



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 12 01:44:21 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 16:44:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pipelining with Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <61894.74.140.204.246.1165879083.squirrel@webmail.jbdesign.net>
Message-ID: <PC176020061211164421032884634a3d@msapiro>

matt at rocafella.org wrote:
>
>I have a question regarding pipelining, etc.  If my mailing list has 600
>subscribers from domain.com, will Mailman combined with my MTA (Postfix)
>pipeline all of these messages that are destined to the same domain?


Maybe.


>From
>what I understand,  it will do this and send all of these messages with
>one unique Message ID, instead of 300 separate Message Id's.  This should
>reduce the likelihood that the remote mail server will filter my emails as
>spam.  Does this sound right?


First, all the messages sent by Mailman for one post will have the same
Message-Id: which will be the Message-Id: from the incoming post.

The messages will be sent from Mailman to Postfix in a number of SMTP
transactions, each of which will have one MAIL FROM command and either
one or many RCPT TO commands. The number of recipients per transaction
will be one if the list is personalized or if the delivery is VERP'd.
Otherwise, the number will be as many as possible up to SMTP_MAX_RCPTS
(default = 500).

The chunks of size SMTP_MAX_RCPTS are created by grouping the
recipients (which are in a hashed order to start with) by top level
domain. All .com addresses are in one group, .net and .org are in a
second group, .edu, .us and .ca are in a third group and all the rest
are in a fourth group. The chunks are created by pulling up to
SMTP_MAX_RCPTS addresses from a group until it's empty.

Thus, depending on list size and SMTP_MAX_RCPTS, a chunk may or may not
contain all or most of the addresses in a given domain - top level
domains are grouped, but fully qualified domains are not grouped
within the top level.

Once a particular chunk is delivered to the MTA (Postfix), the MTA will
normally group all the recipients of that chunk by receiving domain
and send one transaction to the receiving domain containing all the
recipients from that chunk in that domain. The MTA will not group
recipients from the same domain from two different chunks, as it
doesn't know that the message content of two chunks is the same.


>I am basing my argument that we need to
>switch to Mailman on the fact that the old script takes ages (several
>hours) and that it is more likely to get us blacklisted because of the
>method of sending mail that it uses.


Mailman/Postfix should certainly be able to improve significantly on
the 'several hours'. Whether the receiving domain's getting one or a
few messages with several recipients each vs. a bunch of individual
messages is more or less likely to trigger the receiving domain's
blacklisting is something that probably depends on the receiving
domain and something that the receiving domain might consider a secret.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From dewey at ku.edu  Tue Dec 12 02:59:10 2006
From: dewey at ku.edu (Rob Dewhirst)
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 19:59:10 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] conversion (from Listproc)
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612070914270620a82988e7@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200612070914270620a82988e7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <7FE03F07-F6E6-4F4C-8DB3-39249405AFCB@ku.edu>

On Dec 7, 2006, at 11:14 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Melinda wrote:
>
>> I could use some pointers in my conversion from Listproc to Mailman.

> This question is so broad as to be almost beyond the scope of this
> list. I'll just say a few things.
>
> List archives need to be exported as a flat file in *nix mbox format,
> and this can be used to create a Mailman archive.

LISTPROC can't deliver its archives in this format (AFAIK), so there  
will be munging involved.

Personally, I would ask if someone using a mbox mail app to read the  
list (Pine, Thunderbird, Eudora, etc) has a complete archive of the  
list, and use their archive file as a basis for importing into  
mailman instead of trying to use the INDex and GET file commands in  
LISTPROC to access the old archives.

If LISTPROC archive files are anything like LISTSERV notebook files,  
I posted a message a couple of months back to the list outlining how  
to convert them.

I converted from LISTSERV (though I use LISTPROC for work as well) to  
Mailman this year, and the biggest problem is user subscription and  
list options though, not archives.  I would suspect the same is true  
for LISTPROC.

It would help to know a little more about Melinda's list -- its  
general settings, number of subscribers, and even if it has  
archives.  It's pretty easy to translate the results of a REView  
command to a mailman list settings unless the list has some very  
strange settings.

From deepali at infocypher.com  Tue Dec 12 06:10:59 2006
From: deepali at infocypher.com (deepali)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 00:10:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off unsubscription confirmation
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006121115122100008f7c2ef5@msapiro>
References: <PC17602006121115122100008f7c2ef5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C3D49636-E910-40D2-A375-7691B4FBECA3@infocypher.com>

This explains why your patch didn't work for me!  I was trying to  
turn off the "your email command was successful" emails that get sent  
back when the user subscribes to a listserve.  From what you've said  
below, the patch addresses some other issue.

Thanks for your time,
- Deepali


On Dec 11, 2006, at 6:12 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Ben Swihart wrote:
>>
>> My problem is resolved, as far as this particular use of mailman.
>> However, if you set mailman to show the None option and select it,  
>> that
>> appears to cause the e-mail command results bug.
>
>
> Aaahh - the light dawns. I didn't realize the 'command results' email
> was in response to the 'subscribe' email. I thought it was in response
> to a 'confirm' email.
>
> So, yes, if you have ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE = Yes in mm_cfg.py and have
> the list's subscribe_policy = None, you will get both a welcome
> message and a 'results of your email commands' message in response to
> a successful 'subscribe' command. Both the base code which avoids
> sending a response to a successful 'confirm' if a welcome will be sent
> and the patch which I sent which avoids responding to all successful
> 'confirms' only address 'confirm' commands, not 'subscribe' commands.
>
> So yes, it may be a bug in that it is not necessary to send a  
> 'results'
> message if the subscribe requires no confirmation or approval and a
> welcome will be sent, but it is not a bug in the sense of code not
> working as intended, because it was never intended to recognize this
> case and not send the results.
>
> However, I'm still confused about unsubscription confirmation. The
> list's subscribe_policy shouldn't affect this. It is affected by
> unsubscribe_policy in that if unsubscribe requires moderator approval,
> no user confirmation is required, but otherwise, confirmation is
> required unless the users password was provided in the email
> unsubscribe command or the user logged in and unsubscribed from the
> options page.
>
> Perhaps it is a cPanel modification to allow unconfirmed unsubscribes
> when subscribe_policy is None.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users% 
> 40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ 
> deepali%40infocypher.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
> req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From anne.ramey at ncmail.net  Tue Dec 12 19:36:48 2006
From: anne.ramey at ncmail.net (Anne Ramey)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 13:36:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing members with non-standard characters
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612080907180312ce03eeaa@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200612080907180312ce03eeaa@msapiro>
Message-ID: <457EF6C0.70108@ncmail.net>



Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Anne Ramey wrote:
>   
>> I should have mentioned that will not work for this case.  You'll notice 
>> that these are not all nice ascii characters.  some are spaces, some 
>> deletes, some other hex values...I don't know what they all are because 
>> they will not copy and past nicely.  They don't appear at all when I do 
>> list_members.  Any other ideas
>>     
>
>
> There are several options and I have lots of ideas.
>
> Have you tried just checking the 'unsub' box next to the entry?
>   
yes, it says it is successful, but the addresses are still there
> The 'address' you see looks a lot like the URL of the options page that
> the address is a link to. Perhaps you are not seeing the address at
> all, but rather, you are seeing the result of funny characters in the
> address confusing the browser's rendering of the anchor tag. It looks
> like
> <http://lists.ncmail.net/mailman/options/nciin-network-ops/%00b%00r%00i%00a%00n%00v%00--at--%00n%00c%00c%00c%00s%00.%00c%00c%00.%00n%00c%00.%00u%00s%00%00%00%00%00%1F%00%00%00%01%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%03%00%00%00>
> is a link to the options page of the user whose address is
>
> %00b%00r%00i%00a%00n%00v%00--at--%00n%00c%00c%00c%00s%00.%00c%00c%00.%00n%00c%00.%00u%00s%00%00%00%00%00%1F%00%00%00%01%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%03%00%00%00
>
> (if you replace --at-- with @, %00 with ^@, %1F with ^_, %01 with ^A
> and %03 with ^C)
>
> Do you see brianv at ncccs.cc.nc.us on the list_members output? 
No, I see b^@r^@i^@n^@@.... the name has all the control characters in 
it.  Which is why it doesn't display, delete, or list correctly
> Does this
> entry appear in the membership list on its own page at the beginning?
>   
There are 4 like this, and yes, they appear on their own page at the 
beginning of the membership list.
> It also looks like someone mass subscribed a list pasted from or output
> by a word processor
>
> If the bad addresses don't appear in list_members (I don't know why
> they wouldn't, but maybe they just appear with the control characters
> that you don't see and thus look OK) you can do
>
>   bin/list_members listname | bin/synch_members -f - -n listname
>   
This says:
./list_members listname | ./sync_members -f - -n listname
Dry run mode
Invalid :  brianv at ncccs.cc.nc.us
You must fix the preceding invalid addresses first.
So I guess no luck there.
> and if you like what that says, you can do
>
>   bin/list_members listname | bin/synch_members -f - listname
>
> You might also try
>
>   bin/list_members -i listname
>
> to see what that shows.
>
> You could create a simple withlist script to validate member addresses
> and delete invalid ones..
>
>   

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 12 20:53:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 11:53:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing members with non-standard characters
In-Reply-To: <457EF6C0.70108@ncmail.net>
Message-ID: <PC176020061212115301073443afe93f@msapiro>

Anne Ramey wrote:
>
>Mark Sapiro wrote:

>> If the bad addresses don't appear in list_members (I don't know why
>> they wouldn't, but maybe they just appear with the control characters
>> that you don't see and thus look OK) you can do
>>
>>   bin/list_members listname | bin/synch_members -f - -n listname
>>   
>This says:
>./list_members listname | ./sync_members -f - -n listname
>Dry run mode
>Invalid :  brianv at ncccs.cc.nc.us
>You must fix the preceding invalid addresses first.
>So I guess no luck there.

So the address does appear in the list_members output.

Try this one

  bin/list_members -i listname | bin/remove_members -f - -n listname

If that doesn't work, see <http://veenet.value.net/~msapiro/scripts/>
or <http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/> for a link to an
experimental withlist script that should do it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 12 21:43:44 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:43:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing members with non-standard characters
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061212115301073443afe93f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612121243440718fa65715a@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>Try this one
>
>  bin/list_members -i listname | bin/remove_members -f - -n listname
>
>If that doesn't work, see <http://veenet.value.net/~msapiro/scripts/>
>or <http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/> for a link to an
>experimental withlist script that should do it.


BTW, please report results. In particular, I'm interested in knowing if
the list_members -i | remove_members fails and the withlist script
succeeds. In that case, I'll add a pointer to the withlist script to
the several methods already in FAQ 3.13.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From bmills at charter.net  Wed Dec 13 00:16:01 2006
From: bmills at charter.net (bmills at charter.net)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 15:16:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella List question
Message-ID: <831947552.1165965361870.JavaMail.root@fepweb07>

Hi everybody,

I'm new to managing Mailman lists, so please forgive my ignorance. :) 

I have an umbrella list with 4 lists that its serving. Let's call the main list MAIN, and the child lists CHILD1-CHILD4. 

My problem comes in the form of permissions. I want members of CHILD1 to be able to post to MAIN, or maybe directly to one of the childs, like CHILD2. Right now, I have a giant list of user e-mails from other lists in "Accept_These_Nonmembers". What I'd like instead is to accept the lists themselves as Nonmembers to grant posting access to the list.

Is this possible? In what ways is it possible? Can I make it so CHILD1 can post to MAIN? Can I make it so that CHILD1 can post to CHILD2? 

Help! :)

Brandon

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 13 00:38:53 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 15:38:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella List question
In-Reply-To: <831947552.1165965361870.JavaMail.root@fepweb07>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612121538530734faf27173@msapiro>

bmills at charter.netwrote:
>
>Is this possible? In what ways is it possible? Can I make it so CHILD1 can post to MAIN? Can I make it so that CHILD1 can post to CHILD2? 


You need the patch at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From macparamedic at mac.com  Wed Dec 13 01:34:20 2006
From: macparamedic at mac.com (Larry Dieterich)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 16:34:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] is the arch utility missing in OSX server mailman
	installation?
Message-ID: <p06230501c1a4f77d8afc@[10.0.1.13]>

Hi there.

New to this list and new to Mailman.

I successfully set up a Mailman list using the installation on OSX 
Tiger Server.

Very cool software. A longtime majordomo user, I am impressed with Mailman.

I wanted to edit the archives and was able to edit the listname.mbox 
file to remove the stuff I didn't want.

When I tried to run the arch util to rebuild the html archive from 
the edited .mbox, the arch command gives no joy. Arch returns the 
architecture of the Mac hosting the list. ppc, in my case.

I investigated further and find that there is no bin directory in 
mailman, so ~mailman/bin/arch returns no such file or directory.

Is there a way to rebuild the archive listing based on the current 
contents of the listname.mbox file?

I've looked for this information in the archives and FAQ's and I 
googled all over trying to find out what to do, but no help is 
apparent.


thanks
Larry

From dan at music.memphis.edu  Wed Dec 13 01:41:45 2006
From: dan at music.memphis.edu (Dan)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 18:41:45 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] is the arch utility missing in OSX server
 mailman installation?
In-Reply-To: <p06230501c1a4f77d8afc@[10.0.1.13]>
References: <p06230501c1a4f77d8afc@[10.0.1.13]>
Message-ID: <457F4C49.6000207@music.memphis.edu>

Larry Dieterich wrote:
> I successfully set up a Mailman list using the installation on OSX 
> Tiger Server.
> 
> When I tried to run the arch util to rebuild the html archive from 
> the edited .mbox, the arch command gives no joy. Arch returns the 
> architecture of the Mac hosting the list. ppc, in my case.
> 
> I investigated further and find that there is no bin directory in 
> mailman, so ~mailman/bin/arch returns no such file or directory.

Apple split up Mailman between /var/mailman and /usr/share/mailman. The 
bin directory is under the latter and it works fine on my stock 
installation. The script must be run as root.

DP

-- 
============================
Dan Phillips
Associate Professor
Rudi E. Scheidt School of Music
University of Memphis
dan at music.memphis.edu
901-678-3781


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Dec 13 01:43:59 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 18:43:59 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] is the arch utility missing in OSX server
 mailman installation?
In-Reply-To: <p06230501c1a4f77d8afc@[10.0.1.13]>
References: <p06230501c1a4f77d8afc@[10.0.1.13]>
Message-ID: <p06240500c1a4fd1502a0@[10.0.1.11]>

At 4:34 PM -0800 12/12/06, Larry Dieterich wrote:

>  I successfully set up a Mailman list using the installation on OSX
>  Tiger Server.

Are you using the built-in Apple-provided version of Mailman?  If so, 
then please see the FAQ Wizard entry at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From macparamedic at mac.com  Wed Dec 13 02:46:16 2006
From: macparamedic at mac.com (Larry Dieterich)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 17:46:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] is the arch utility missing in OSX server
 mailman installation?
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c1a4fd1502a0@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <p06230501c1a4f77d8afc@[10.0.1.13]>
	<p06240500c1a4fd1502a0@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <p06230504c1a508b1b1c1@[10.0.1.13]>

Thanks for the help.

I am using the Apple-provided Mailman pre-installed on Tiger Server. 
10.4.8 Build 8L127

I found the FAQ's referenced, but they seem mostly for setup, which I 
have successfully done.

My problem is with the archive reconstruction.

Dan pointed me to the location for the scripts, which Apple has 
placed in /usr/share/mailman/Mailman/
There is a directory there called Archiver. I assume that this is the 
tool I need but I am stumped about how to make it rebuild the archive 
from the .mbox file which is located in 
/private/var/mailman/archives/private/

I'm shakey on the command line and I'm kind of thrashing around here. 
I appreciate the support.

Larry

At 6:43 PM -0600 12/12/06, Brad Knowles wrote:
>At 4:34 PM -0800 12/12/06, Larry Dieterich wrote:
>
>>   I successfully set up a Mailman list using the installation on OSX
>>   Tiger Server.
>
>Are you using the built-in Apple-provided version of Mailman?  If 
>so, then please see the FAQ Wizard entry at 
><http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp>.
>
>--
>Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>
>
>Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
>mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
>e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
>with the current address.

-- 
Macintosh Paramedic
530- 867- 1402

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 13 03:02:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 18:02:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] is the arch utility missing in OSX
	servermailman installation?
In-Reply-To: <p06230504c1a508b1b1c1@[10.0.1.13]>
Message-ID: <PC176020061212180208065604a16f78@msapiro>

Larry Dieterich wrote:
>
>Dan pointed me to the location for the scripts, which Apple has 
>placed in /usr/share/mailman/Mailman/
>There is a directory there called Archiver. I assume that this is the 
>tool I need but I am stumped about how to make it rebuild the archive 
>from the .mbox file which is located in 
>/private/var/mailman/archives/private/


This is NOT what you are looking for. You are looking for
/usr/share/mailman/bin/arch. The /usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Archiver
directory contains the python modules that manipulate archives, but
they do not have a convenient user interface. Thats what
/usr/share/mailman/bin/arch is for. You should be able to give the
command

  /usr/share/mailman/bin/arch --help

and get more information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Dec 13 03:14:35 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 20:14:35 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] is the arch utility missing in OSX server
 mailman installation?
In-Reply-To: <p06230504c1a508b1b1c1@[10.0.1.13]>
References: <p06230501c1a4f77d8afc@[10.0.1.13]>
	<p06240500c1a4fd1502a0@[10.0.1.11]> <p06230504c1a508b1b1c1@[10.0.1.13]>
Message-ID: <p06240501c1a51214e876@[10.0.1.11]>

At 5:46 PM -0800 12/12/06, Larry Dieterich wrote:

>  I found the FAQ's referenced, but they seem mostly for setup, which I
>  have successfully done.

I just updated FAQ 1.21 to include the following text at the bottom:

	All other support issues relating to using the Apple-provided
	versions of Mailman under MacOS X should be first directed to
	Apple, since they are the ones that modified the Mailman
	installation to suit their environment and they have not
	shared their changes with us.  If we can confirm that the
	issues you're having are not unique to the Apple-provided
	version of Mailman, we will try to provide whatever
	assistance we can.  If you have a particular problem with
	the Apple-provided version of Mailman and you manage to find
	out what the solution is, please let us know and we will try
	to keep this FAQ entry up-to-date.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From bmills at charter.net  Wed Dec 13 05:07:45 2006
From: bmills at charter.net (bmills at charter.net)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 20:07:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Patch included in later builds?
Message-ID: <1541862317.1165982865022.JavaMail.root@fepweb09>

Thanks Mark!

Is there any plans on including the functionality of the patch in later builds of Mailman? Perhaps 2.2.x?

Brandon

---Original Message---

bmills at charter.netwrote:
>
>Is this possible? In what ways is it possible? Can I make it so CHILD1 can post to MAIN? Can I make it so that CHILD1 can post to CHILD2? 


You need the patch at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From markfrmtls3460 at sbcglobal.net  Wed Dec 13 05:23:41 2006
From: markfrmtls3460 at sbcglobal.net (Joseph Richardson)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 20:23:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with having to authorize
Message-ID: <883434.64668.qm@web81809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hope some one can help.  I am taking care of two mailing list.  I installed one, and a friend installed and set up the other.  I have set all of the admin settings the same.  The one my friend set up is working fine. The one I set up works except for the fact that I have to authorize every piece of mail that is sent.  I have both set up with a calendar to send reminders and that is the one that I don't want to have to authorize. Can anyone help?

Mark R.


Don't accept average habits, open your heart and push the limits.

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 13 05:35:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 20:35:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with having to authorize
In-Reply-To: <883434.64668.qm@web81809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612122035010312e980e719@msapiro>

Joseph Richardson (Mark R.?) wrote:

>The one I set up works except for the fact that I have to authorize every piece of mail that is sent.  I have both set up with a calendar to send reminders and that is the one that I don't want to have to authorize. Can anyone help?


When you go to the admindb interface to approve the post, what does it
say as the reason the post was held?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 13 05:38:47 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 20:38:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Patch included in later builds?
In-Reply-To: <1541862317.1165982865022.JavaMail.root@fepweb09>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612122038470921e980e9a8@msapiro>

bmills at charter.net wrote:
>
>Is there any plans on including the functionality of the patch in later builds of Mailman? Perhaps 2.2.x?


Yes, the patch at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103>
is a candidate for inclusion in Mailman 2.2.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From leowu at mail.fareast.com.tw  Wed Dec 13 10:40:56 2006
From: leowu at mail.fareast.com.tw (=?big5?B?u7eqRrnPrtGkvaVx?=)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:40:56 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ask create list question
Message-ID: <005701c71e9a$cab47750$d401000a@fareast.local>

Dear sir or madan,
    I just try to installthe mailman-2.1.9 and it looks work but when I want
to creat a new list
it alway show "Error: You are not authorized to create new mailing lists"

I use the command "bin/mmsitepass xxxxxx" twice and creat the new list via
web ui but
it still shwo the same message ! What can I do to solve this problem ...

Best regards,
leo wu 



From bmills at charter.net  Wed Dec 13 14:08:06 2006
From: bmills at charter.net (bmills at charter.net)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 5:08:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.2.x - If and When?
Message-ID: <1413840228.1166015286055.JavaMail.root@fepweb14>

One last question :) 

I need to know whether to tell my Mailman server admins to apply the patch now or maybe hold out for 2.2.x. So is 2.2.x happening ( the site says it might not. ), and if so, whats the ETA for the release?

Brandon

---Original Message---

bmills at charter.net wrote:
>
>Is there any plans on including the functionality of the patch in later builds of Mailman? Perhaps 2.2.x?


Yes, the patch at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103>
is a candidate for inclusion in Mailman 2.2.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Dec 13 14:17:08 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 07:17:08 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.2.x - If and When?
In-Reply-To: <1413840228.1166015286055.JavaMail.root@fepweb14>
References: <1413840228.1166015286055.JavaMail.root@fepweb14>
Message-ID: <p06240500c1a5ad9cd2ee@[10.0.1.11]>

At 5:08 AM -0800 12/13/06, <bmills at charter.net> wrote:

>  I need to know whether to tell my Mailman server admins to apply the
>  patch now or maybe hold out for 2.2.x. So is 2.2.x happening ( the
>  site says it might not. ), and if so, whats the ETA for the release?

I'm sure that 2.2.x will happen, but it may yet be a while.  I 
recommend you go ahead and apply the patch now.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 13 18:31:04 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:31:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ask create list question
In-Reply-To: <005701c71e9a$cab47750$d401000a@fareast.local>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612130931040406f7176ffa@msapiro>

leowu at mail.fareast.com.tw wrote:

>    I just try to installthe mailman-2.1.9 and it looks work but when I want
>to creat a new list
>it alway show "Error: You are not authorized to create new mailing lists"
>
>I use the command "bin/mmsitepass xxxxxx" twice and creat the new list via
>web ui but
>it still shwo the same message ! What can I do to solve this problem 


Are you entering this exact password in the "List creator's
(authentication) password:" box at the bottom of the form?

Does the password contain only 'us-ascii' characters? If not, it may be
getting munged in the web posting process.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 13 18:39:06 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:39:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.2.x - If and When?
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c1a5ad9cd2ee@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <PC17602006121309390605788ea7a5a8@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 5:08 AM -0800 12/13/06, <bmills at charter.net> wrote:
>
>>  I need to know whether to tell my Mailman server admins to apply the
>>  patch now or maybe hold out for 2.2.x. So is 2.2.x happening ( the
>>  site says it might not. ), and if so, whats the ETA for the release?
>
>I'm sure that 2.2.x will happen, but it may yet be a while.  I 
>recommend you go ahead and apply the patch now.

Yes, there is active developement on 2.2. See
<http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Mailman+2.2>.

Where exactly did you see that 2.2 might not happen?

But as Brad says, it's still too early for a schedule, so install the
patch.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From steele at agora-net.com  Wed Dec 13 18:29:42 2006
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 12:29:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Case-Sensitivity Problem?
Message-ID: <45803886.4030307@agora-net.com>

To all,

I recently had a member (an administrator and moderator, no less) whose 
message was bounced.  Their moderation bit is not set, and in addition 
to being the list administrator, they are an undigested member.  
However, they recently had a message held for moderator approval.  I 
cannot seem to figure out why; my only rational explanation is that in 
the member list, they are listed as "foo at bar.com", but the headers from 
the email that this person sent lists the sender as "FOO at bar.com". 

 From reading the docs, I thought that (for list membership purposes), 
the email addresses were case insensitive, thus complying with RFC 822.  
Am I misinformed?  If it helps, when the message was bounced, it was 
categorized as having an unrecognizable format and/or not containing a 
member address.  Here is the message the user/administrator received:

 >The attached message was received as a bounce, but either the bounce
 >format was not recognized, or no member addresses could be extracted
 >from it.  This mailing list has been configured to send all
 >unrecognized bounce messages to the list administrator(s).

Again, the message headers contain:

 >From: FOO at bar.com

And their email address, as listed in the web interface, is:

 >foo at bar.com

Any thoughts, hints, ideas?  Thanks in advance!

Ryan

-- 
Ryan Steele                         
Systems Administrator               steele at agora-net.com
AgoraNet, Inc.                      (302) 224-2475
314 E. Main Street, Suite 1         (302) 224-2552 (fax)
Newark, DE 19711                    http://www.agora-net.com


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Wed Dec 13 19:31:14 2006
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 13:31:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Case-Sensitivity Problem?
In-Reply-To: <45803886.4030307@agora-net.com>
References: <45803886.4030307@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <20061213183114.GA14844@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Ryan Steele (steele at agora-net.com):
>  From reading the docs, I thought that (for list membership purposes), 
> the email addresses were case insensitive, thus complying with RFC 822.  

RFC 822 says that the part before the @ sign *can* be case sensitive.  So
the behavour you're seeing is allowed by RFC 822.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
"This also tells they understand our language. They are just not willing to
speak to us using it." "Who knew they were French?" - Babylon 5

From steele at agora-net.com  Wed Dec 13 20:00:20 2006
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 14:00:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Case-Sensitivity Problem?
In-Reply-To: <20061213183114.GA14844@allhats.xcski.com>
References: <45803886.4030307@agora-net.com>
	<20061213183114.GA14844@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <45804DC4.6050803@agora-net.com>

I think I've actually identified the problem. 

Here is an excerpt from the mail header:

>Received: from FOO at aol.com
>         by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id e.cef.43ab224 (57293);
>         Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:41:44 -0500 (EST)
>From: FOO at aol.com
>Message-ID: <cef.43ab224.32b16b26 at aol.com>
>Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:41:42 EST

And here is a message from Mailman's bounce log:

 >Dec 13 09:42:38 2006 (2202) bounce message w/no discernable addresses: 
<cef.43ab224.32b16b26 at aol.com>
 >Dec 13 09:42:38 2006 (2202) forwarding unrecognized, message-id: 
<cef.43ab224.32b16b26 at aol.com>

For whatever reason, Mailman treated the message-id that AOL gave it as 
the sender address...thus causing the "Uncaught bounce notification" 
error.   The actual bounce occurred because it was sent for moderator 
approval due to the large number of recipients:

 >vette:Dec 13 09:38:51 2006 (2204) Igcpgrads post from foo at aol.com 
held, message-id=<cce.5a1853c.3
 >2b16a2d at aol.com>: Too many recipients to the message

Thank you for your insight about the RFC's though, Paul.  More 
disconcerting is the fact that Mailman seemed unable to extract the 
sender's email address from the bounce?  I'm running 2.1.8, if that's of 
any concern to the devs out there...


Best Regards,
Ryan

Paul Tomblin wrote:
> Quoting Ryan Steele (steele at agora-net.com):
>   
>>  From reading the docs, I thought that (for list membership purposes), 
>> the email addresses were case insensitive, thus complying with RFC 822.  
>>     
>
> RFC 822 says that the part before the @ sign *can* be case sensitive.  So
> the behavour you're seeing is allowed by RFC 822.
>
>   


-- 
Ryan Steele                         
Systems Administrator               steele at agora-net.com
AgoraNet, Inc.                      (302) 224-2475
314 E. Main Street, Suite 1         (302) 224-2552 (fax)
Newark, DE 19711                    http://www.agora-net.com


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 13 19:54:45 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 10:54:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Case-Sensitivity Problem?
In-Reply-To: <45803886.4030307@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006121310544502964ca38e15@msapiro>

Ryan Steele wrote:
>
>I recently had a member (an administrator and moderator, no less) whose 
>message was bounced.  Their moderation bit is not set, and in addition 
>to being the list administrator, they are an undigested member.  
>However, they recently had a message held for moderator approval.  I 
>cannot seem to figure out why; my only rational explanation is that in 
>the member list, they are listed as "foo at bar.com", but the headers from 
>the email that this person sent lists the sender as "FOO at bar.com". 
>
> From reading the docs, I thought that (for list membership purposes), 
>the email addresses were case insensitive, thus complying with RFC 822.  
>Am I misinformed?  If it helps, when the message was bounced, it was 
>categorized as having an unrecognizable format and/or not containing a 
>member address.  Here is the message the user/administrator received:
>
> >The attached message was received as a bounce, but either the bounce
> >format was not recognized, or no member addresses could be extracted
> >from it.  This mailing list has been configured to send all
> >unrecognized bounce messages to the list administrator(s).
>
>Again, the message headers contain:
>
> >From: FOO at bar.com
>
>And their email address, as listed in the web interface, is:
>
> >foo at bar.com


It is unclear to me how many issues you have, but here's what I can
tell you about the above.

Membership tests are not case sensitive.

The "The attached message was received as a bounce ..." message above
was sent to the list owner because the list's
bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner setting is Yes, and the post
that was bounced was sent to the listname-bounces at example.com address
rather than to the listname at example.com address.

You also say, "they recently had a message held for moderator
approval". In Mailman's 'vette' log, you should find the reason why
the message was held. What is that reason?
	
-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Dec 13 21:03:37 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 14:03:37 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Case-Sensitivity Problem?
In-Reply-To: <45804DC4.6050803@agora-net.com>
References: <45803886.4030307@agora-net.com>
	<20061213183114.GA14844@allhats.xcski.com>
	<45804DC4.6050803@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <p06240502c1a60c27ebb3@[10.0.1.11]>

At 2:00 PM -0500 12/13/06, Ryan Steele wrote:

>  Here is an excerpt from the mail header:
>
>>  Received: from FOO at aol.com
>>          by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id e.cef.43ab224 (57293);
>>          Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:41:44 -0500 (EST)
>>  From: FOO at aol.com
>>  Message-ID: <cef.43ab224.32b16b26 at aol.com>
>>  Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:41:42 EST

What was in the "To:" header?  What about the envelope sender?  Note 
that this is usually recorded as the "Return-path:" header, or in 
what is sometimes referred to as the "From_" header.

>  And here is a message from Mailman's bounce log:
>
>  >Dec 13 09:42:38 2006 (2202) bounce message w/no discernable addresses:
>  <cef.43ab224.32b16b26 at aol.com>
>  >Dec 13 09:42:38 2006 (2202) forwarding unrecognized, message-id:
>  <cef.43ab224.32b16b26 at aol.com>
>
>  For whatever reason, Mailman treated the message-id that AOL gave it as
>  the sender address...thus causing the "Uncaught bounce notification"
>  error.   The actual bounce occurred because it was sent for moderator
>  approval due to the large number of recipients:

No, it seemed to recognize what the message-id header was, but there 
was something else it didn't recognize.  That's what we need to 
figure out.

I helped build the original versions of those machines at AOL, so I'm 
pretty sure I know what they're doing.

>  Thank you for your insight about the RFC's though, Paul.  More
>  disconcerting is the fact that Mailman seemed unable to extract the
>  sender's email address from the bounce?  I'm running 2.1.8, if that's of
>  any concern to the devs out there...

We'd have to look more deeply at all of the headers that were 
actually present, and then we'd have to look through the code paths 
to see what might have resulted in that message.  Without the that 
information, we'd just be taking shots in the dark.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 13 21:01:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 12:01:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Case-Sensitivity Problem?
In-Reply-To: <45804DC4.6050803@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612131201500000855b9a52@msapiro>

Ryan Steele wrote:

>I think I've actually identified the problem. 


I don't think so.


>Here is an excerpt from the mail header:
>
>>Received: from FOO at aol.com
>>         by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id e.cef.43ab224 (57293);
>>         Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:41:44 -0500 (EST)
>>From: FOO at aol.com
>>Message-ID: <cef.43ab224.32b16b26 at aol.com>
>>Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:41:42 EST
>
>And here is a message from Mailman's bounce log:
>
> >Dec 13 09:42:38 2006 (2202) bounce message w/no discernable addresses: 
><cef.43ab224.32b16b26 at aol.com>
> >Dec 13 09:42:38 2006 (2202) forwarding unrecognized, message-id: 
><cef.43ab224.32b16b26 at aol.com>
>
>For whatever reason, Mailman treated the message-id that AOL gave it as 
>the sender address...thus causing the "Uncaught bounce notification" 
>error.   The actual bounce occurred because it was sent for moderator 
>approval due to the large number of recipients:


No. The 'bounce' occurred because one of the recipients was the
Igcpgrads-bounces address.


> >vette:Dec 13 09:38:51 2006 (2204) Igcpgrads post from foo at aol.com 
>held, message-id=<cce.5a1853c.3
> >2b16a2d at aol.com>: Too many recipients to the message


And the message was held because the number of explicit addresses in
To: and Cc: of the message was greater than or equal to Privacy
options...->Recipient filters->max_num_recipients.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From igot at cprp.ca  Wed Dec 13 22:48:11 2006
From: igot at cprp.ca (Pierre Igot)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:48:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3: Outgoing messages
	stuck in qrunner/in folder
Message-ID: <DAA62714-31C8-462B-AA2C-205A0F4AEFFF@cprp.ca>

Hi,

I am running Mailman on an Xserve running Mac OS X Server 10.3.9. The  
version of Mailman is the one included with Mac OS X Server 10.3.9.  
(It's 2.1.2.)

I've just started experimenting with mailing lists on this server  
using Mailman. Things worked fine until I actually got to the stage  
of mass-subscribing a series of nearly 500 email addresses.

I used the web-based Mailman interface to submit the list of 500  
email addresses for new subscribers, through the "Mass Subscription"  
web form. I just copied the list of email addresses (separated by  
return chars) from a text editor and pasted it in the field and  
submitted. My mistake (I think) was that I submitted the entire list  
of 500 email addresses at once. Initially it SEEMED to work, i.e. I  
got a confirmation page listing all the subscribers that had been  
added to the list.

But then I became unable to access the admin page for the list  
altogether. The server would simply not respond. I could still access  
other parts of the web-based Mailman interface, but not the pages for  
this particular list.

After a bit of on-line research, I discovered that the problem was  
probably due to "locks" in the

/var/mailman/locks/

folder. Indeed, when I looked inside that folder, I found a whole  
series of files named:

enseignants.lock
enseignants.lock.www.cprp.ca.421.1
enseignants.lock.www.cprp.ca.7150.0
enseignants.lock.www.cprp.ca.7166.0
enseignants.lock.www.cprp.ca.7216.0
enseignants.lock.www.cprp.ca.7228.0
enseignants.lock.www.cprp.ca.7286.0
enseignants.lock.www.cprp.ca.7470.0
enseignants.lock.www.cprp.ca.7696.0
enseignants.lock.www.cprp.ca.7819.0
enseignants.lock.www.cprp.ca.7918.0

("www.cprp.ca" is my server and "enseignants" is the name of the list)

The instructions for dealing with this were not exactly clear, so I  
just removed all these files so that the "locks" folder was empty.  
After that, I was able to access the list's admin pages again. So I  
thought everything was good.

Then I tried to send a message to my subscribers. (It's a receive- 
only list, so I'll be the only one sending messages.) However, the  
message that I sent never got sent to the mailing list's subscribers.

After more online research, I found out that my message was actually  
stuck inside the

/var/mailman/qfiles/in/

folder. I also found that I could force Mailman to send the message  
by using the command:

/usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner -r All

That worked and the message got sent out to the list (although I then  
had to control-C the process to return to the prompt).

But I find that this now happens every time I want to send a message.  
The message never gets sent automatically as expected. Instead, it  
gets stuck in that /qfiles/in/ folder and I have to run the qrunner - 
r All command to get it sent.

This never happened with this list before I added the 500 subscribers  
and had to fiddle with the /locks/ folder. Prior to that, when I was  
still in the stage of testing the mailing list with only a handful of  
test subscribers, everything worked fine and the messages would get  
sent automatically.

My suspicion is that the problem is due to what I did in the /locks/  
folder, that maybe I wasn't supposed to remove all the files. (I have  
kept them on a local disk in case I need to move them back to that  
folder.)

But unfortunately further on-line research and a search through the  
mailman-users archives didn't return anything that would help me. I  
found people describing various similar problems, but the  
troubleshooting steps seem suggested totally foreign to my actual  
problem.

Hence this message. I would REALLY appreciate it if someone could  
help me with this. I simply do not have the required Mailman  
expertise. I just want to use Mailman for a single announcement list.  
I suppose I could erase everything and start from scratch again, but  
maybe someone here has an easier solution.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Pierre Igot
--
Pierre Igot, administrateur des syst?mes / Systems Administrator
www.cprp.ca
902-837-7391


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec 14 00:31:18 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 15:31:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3: Outgoing
	messagesstuck in qrunner/in folder
In-Reply-To: <DAA62714-31C8-462B-AA2C-205A0F4AEFFF@cprp.ca>
Message-ID: <PC176020061213153118093787e19c5b@msapiro>

Pierre Igot wrote:
>
>I am running Mailman on an Xserve running Mac OS X Server 10.3.9. The  
>version of Mailman is the one included with Mac OS X Server 10.3.9.  
>(It's 2.1.2.)


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp>


>I've just started experimenting with mailing lists on this server  
>using Mailman. Things worked fine until I actually got to the stage  
>of mass-subscribing a series of nearly 500 email addresses.
>
>I used the web-based Mailman interface to submit the list of 500  
>email addresses for new subscribers, through the "Mass Subscription"  
>web form. I just copied the list of email addresses (separated by  
>return chars) from a text editor and pasted it in the field and  
>submitted. My mistake (I think) was that I submitted the entire list  
>of 500 email addresses at once. Initially it SEEMED to work, i.e. I  
>got a confirmation page listing all the subscribers that had been  
>added to the list.


Yes, it worked. The hangup was probably because of trying to send
notifications.


>But then I became unable to access the admin page for the list  
>altogether. The server would simply not respond. I could still access  
>other parts of the web-based Mailman interface, but not the pages for  
>this particular list.
>
>After a bit of on-line research, I discovered that the problem was  
>probably due to "locks" in the
>
>/var/mailman/locks/
>
>folder. Indeed, when I looked inside that folder, I found a whole  
>series of files named:
>
>enseignants.lock
>enseignants.lock.www.cprp.ca.421.1
>enseignants.lock.www.cprp.ca.7150.0
>enseignants.lock.www.cprp.ca.7166.0
>enseignants.lock.www.cprp.ca.7216.0
>enseignants.lock.www.cprp.ca.7228.0
>enseignants.lock.www.cprp.ca.7286.0
>enseignants.lock.www.cprp.ca.7470.0
>enseignants.lock.www.cprp.ca.7696.0
>enseignants.lock.www.cprp.ca.7819.0
>enseignants.lock.www.cprp.ca.7918.0
>
>("www.cprp.ca" is my server and "enseignants" is the name of the list)


Yes, the problem was these locks.


>The instructions for dealing with this were not exactly clear, so I  
>just removed all these files so that the "locks" folder was empty.  
>After that, I was able to access the list's admin pages again. So I  
>thought everything was good.
>
>Then I tried to send a message to my subscribers. (It's a receive- 
>only list, so I'll be the only one sending messages.) However, the  
>message that I sent never got sent to the mailing list's subscribers.
>
>After more online research, I found out that my message was actually  
>stuck inside the
>
>/var/mailman/qfiles/in/
>
>folder. I also found that I could force Mailman to send the message  
>by using the command:
>
>/usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner -r All


So the mailmanctl daemon and the qrunners aren't running unless you
start the qrunners manually as above, but this isn't the way to do it.

If you had done

/usr/share/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start

you wouldn't have had to kill the qrunners.

 
>That worked and the message got sent out to the list (although I then  
>had to control-C the process to return to the prompt).
>
>But I find that this now happens every time I want to send a message.  
>The message never gets sent automatically as expected. Instead, it  
>gets stuck in that /qfiles/in/ folder and I have to run the qrunner - 
>r All command to get it sent.
>
>This never happened with this list before I added the 500 subscribers  
>and had to fiddle with the /locks/ folder. Prior to that, when I was  
>still in the stage of testing the mailing list with only a handful of  
>test subscribers, everything worked fine and the messages would get  
>sent automatically.


I think in Mac OSX server, Mailman is installed as a service and the
service runs mailmanctl. Somehow you have stopped the service and you
need to restart it.


>My suspicion is that the problem is due to what I did in the /locks/  
>folder, that maybe I wasn't supposed to remove all the files. (I have  
>kept them on a local disk in case I need to move them back to that  
>folder.)


I doubt that removing the locks had anything to do with it, but you
might check ALL of Mailman's log files to see what kinds of errors and
other conditions occurred.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From igot at cprp.ca  Thu Dec 14 03:59:30 2006
From: igot at cprp.ca (Pierre Igot)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:59:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3: Outgoing
	messagesstuck in qrunner/in folder
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061213153118093787e19c5b@msapiro>
References: <PC176020061213153118093787e19c5b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <3F10FCB6-8E67-4A63-87C7-86132D86016E@cprp.ca>

On 06-12-13, at 19:31, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Pierre Igot wrote:
>>
>> I am running Mailman on an Xserve running Mac OS X Server 10.3.9. The
>> version of Mailman is the one included with Mac OS X Server 10.3.9.
>> (It's 2.1.2.)
>
>
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp>

I am aware of this page and checked it before sending my request for  
help. The page didn't provide any information that addressed my  
issue, as far as I could tell.

>> I used the web-based Mailman interface to submit the list of 500
>> email addresses for new subscribers, through the "Mass Subscription"
>> web form. I just copied the list of email addresses (separated by
>> return chars) from a text editor and pasted it in the field and
>> submitted. My mistake (I think) was that I submitted the entire list
>> of 500 email addresses at once. Initially it SEEMED to work, i.e. I
>> got a confirmation page listing all the subscribers that had been
>> added to the list.
>
>
> Yes, it worked. The hangup was probably because of trying to send
> notifications.

Right--but I didn't see any error messages about anything. (I checked  
all the logs.) So it was a failure that was not exactly graceful :).

>> But then I became unable to access the admin page for the list
>> altogether. The server would simply not respond. I could still access
>> other parts of the web-based Mailman interface, but not the pages for
>> this particular list.
>>
>> After a bit of on-line research, I discovered that the problem was
>> probably due to "locks" in the
>>
>> /var/mailman/locks/
>>
>> folder. Indeed, when I looked inside that folder, I found a whole
>> series of files named:
>>
>> ...
>
>
> Yes, the problem was these locks.

OK, so based on what you are saying, deleting these locks doesn't  
cause any further problems, right?

>> The instructions for dealing with this were not exactly clear, so I
>> just removed all these files so that the "locks" folder was empty.
>> After that, I was able to access the list's admin pages again. So I
>> thought everything was good.
>>
>> Then I tried to send a message to my subscribers. (It's a receive-
>> only list, so I'll be the only one sending messages.) However, the
>> message that I sent never got sent to the mailing list's subscribers.
>>
>> After more online research, I found out that my message was actually
>> stuck inside the
>>
>> /var/mailman/qfiles/in/
>>
>> folder. I also found that I could force Mailman to send the message
>> by using the command:
>>
>> /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner -r All
>
>
> So the mailmanctl daemon and the qrunners aren't running unless you
> start the qrunners manually as above, but this isn't the way to do it.
>
> If you had done
>
> /usr/share/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start
>
> you wouldn't have had to kill the qrunners.

Well, there was nothing anywhere that indicated that I had to run  
this command :).

Like I said, before the mass subscriptions, everything ran fine and I  
never had to run this command. If "mailmanctl" somehow stopped, it  
certainly didn't notify me. And there was nothing in the user  
interface for Mailman that indicated that this was the problem.

Running this command did indeed fix the problem. The messages are now  
sent out automatically. Thanks!

>> This never happened with this list before I added the 500 subscribers
>> and had to fiddle with the /locks/ folder. Prior to that, when I was
>> still in the stage of testing the mailing list with only a handful of
>> test subscribers, everything worked fine and the messages would get
>> sent automatically.
>
>
> I think in Mac OSX server, Mailman is installed as a service and the
> service runs mailmanctl. Somehow you have stopped the service and you
> need to restart it.

Well, I did not stop the service intentionally. The Mailman service  
is part of the "Mail" service (which also controls POP and SMTP) and  
there is nothing in the server admin software that indicates that  
mailmanctl is not running. Probably a shortcoming of Apple's server  
admin software.

In any case, now I know that if things are not going out, I need to  
check if this "mailmanctl" is running. Thanks.

It's the kind of thing that is probably obvious to most readers of  
this list, but I had to subscribe to the list and ask the question to  
find out myself (or spend many hours reading the entire Mailman  
documentation, I suppose).

>> My suspicion is that the problem is due to what I did in the /locks/
>> folder, that maybe I wasn't supposed to remove all the files. (I have
>> kept them on a local disk in case I need to move them back to that
>> folder.)
>
>
> I doubt that removing the locks had anything to do with it, but you
> might check ALL of Mailman's log files to see what kinds of errors and
> other conditions occurred.

OK. I did check all the log files, and didn't see any significant  
errors.

Thanks again.

Pierre
--
Pierre Igot, administrateur des syst?mes / Systems Administrator
www.cprp.ca
902-837-7391


From alan at patriot.net  Thu Dec 14 00:35:01 2006
From: alan at patriot.net (Alan McConnell)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:35:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User unsubscribing
Message-ID: <20061213233501.GA3709@patriot.net>

I'm still using mm 2.1.5, still trying to get my ISP to pay attention . . .

Anyway: I can test my E-list in various ways, because I'm subscribed from
a couple of addresses, in addition to adminning it from the E-address
you're getting this from.

So: this afternoon I unsubscribed myself, using lynx, from one of my
other addresses, because a member had written there was a problem.
And my "unsubscribe" seemed to go through, and I got, at this address,
a message from mailman-bounces that indeed "I", at my other address,
had been removed . . .

But when I went back to check: there "I" am, still a member.

My question: how can that happen?  I'm not the sharpest SW designer
around, but I surely know that you don't have your SW send out messages
that something has been done unless you are damn sure it has been done.
I'm supposing -- I'm ignorant of python -- that that must be the way
the mailman people did it too.  Only _after_ a successful delete from the
roster has been accomplished -- all kinds of ways I can think of to ensure
that that happened -- should the announcement be sent out.

And surely the code that puts the members up on the admin membership
management roster is the simplest possible?  and should react right
away?

So: have I exhausted the possibilities?  I am of course looking for
ammunition to present to my ISP, to help them decide to reinstall.
But if this is a problem that will recur in 2.1.9?

TIA for anticipated help and suggestions.

Alan

-- 
Alan McConnell :  http://patriot.net/users/alan
    "The intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."
    Impeachment proceedings should be started immediately.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Dec 14 04:35:04 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 21:35:04 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User unsubscribing
In-Reply-To: <20061213233501.GA3709@patriot.net>
References: <20061213233501.GA3709@patriot.net>
Message-ID: <p06240503c1a6768bda4a@[10.0.1.11]>

At 6:35 PM -0500 12/13/06, Alan McConnell wrote:

>  But when I went back to check: there "I" am, still a member.
>
>  My question: how can that happen?

The web page may have been cached at a proxy between you and the 
server, or it may be cached internally to your web browser.  Try 
doing a forced reload of the page from your web browser, and see if 
you can figure out whether or not there is a transparent proxy 
between you and the web server.

That's about all I can think of, off the top of my head.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec 14 08:29:47 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 23:29:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3: Outgoing
	messagesstuck in qrunner/in folder
In-Reply-To: <3F10FCB6-8E67-4A63-87C7-86132D86016E@cprp.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612132329470796ccdb4fab@msapiro>

Pierre Igot wrote:

>On 06-12-13, at 19:31, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Pierre Igot wrote:
>>>
>>> I am running Mailman on an Xserve running Mac OS X Server 10.3.9. The
>>> version of Mailman is the one included with Mac OS X Server 10.3.9.
>>> (It's 2.1.2.)
>>
>>
>> See
>> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp>
>
>I am aware of this page and checked it before sending my request for
>help. The page didn't provide any information that addressed my
>issue, as far as I could tell.


The relevant part of that FAQ is the part that says

  All other support issues relating to using the Apple-provided versions
  of Mailman under MacOS X should be first directed to Apple, since they
  are the ones that modified the Mailman installation to suit their
  environment and they have not shared their changes with us.

There are other FAQ articles
-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec 14 08:51:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 23:51:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3:
	Outgoingmessagesstuck in qrunner/in folder
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612132329470796ccdb4fab@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612132351280968ba4fe724@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Pierre Igot wrote:
>
>>On 06-12-13, at 19:31, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>>> Pierre Igot wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I am running Mailman on an Xserve running Mac OS X Server 10.3.9. The
>>>> version of Mailman is the one included with Mac OS X Server 10.3.9.
>>>> (It's 2.1.2.)
>>>
>>>
>>> See
>>> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp>
>>
>>I am aware of this page and checked it before sending my request for
>>help. The page didn't provide any information that addressed my
>>issue, as far as I could tell.
>
>
>The relevant part of that FAQ is the part that says
>
>  All other support issues relating to using the Apple-provided versions
>  of Mailman under MacOS X should be first directed to Apple, since they
>  are the ones that modified the Mailman installation to suit their
>  environment and they have not shared their changes with us.
>
>There are other FAQ articles


Sorry, I sent that before I finished it. I meant to say

There are other FAQ articles such as
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>
that may have been helpful, but we don't know if they are applicable
to the Mac OS-X Server Mailman or not because it is a modified version
of our package, and we don't know what the mods are.

WRT to mailmanctl, apparently the Mailman qrunners were running at some
time and then stopped. I don't know how they were started in the first
place or why they stopped. Perhaps a reboot of the server would have
started them again, perhaps not, but IMO, the fact that all this is
not documented for you is Apple's failure, not ours.

I think I can understand your frustration, and I am not trying to be
unsympathetic. If you had installed our package, and found our
installation manual lacking, we would do our best to supplement it or
improve it. However, we really can't create documentation for packages
whose details we have even less information about than you do.
</rant>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hmag at ozemail.com.au  Thu Dec 14 09:18:16 2006
From: hmag at ozemail.com.au (Terry Allen)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 19:18:16 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3:
 Outgoingmessagesstuck in qrunner/in folder
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612132351280968ba4fe724@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200612132351280968ba4fe724@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06230900c1a6b9074bae@[203.53.37.182]>

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>>Pierre Igot wrote:
>>
>>>On 06-12-13, at 19:31, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Pierre Igot wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  I am running Mailman on an Xserve running Mac OS X Server 10.3.9. The
>>>>>  version of Mailman is the one included with Mac OS X Server 10.3.9.
>>>>>  (It's 2.1.2.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  See
>>>>  <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp>
>>>
>>>I am aware of this page and checked it before sending my request for
>>>help. The page didn't provide any information that addressed my
>>>issue, as far as I could tell.
>>
>>
>>The relevant part of that FAQ is the part that says
>>
>>   All other support issues relating to using the Apple-provided versions
>>   of Mailman under MacOS X should be first directed to Apple, since they
>>   are the ones that modified the Mailman installation to suit their
>>   environment and they have not shared their changes with us.
>>
>>There are other FAQ articles
>
>
>Sorry, I sent that before I finished it. I meant to say
>
>There are other FAQ articles such as
><http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>
>that may have been helpful, but we don't know if they are applicable
>to the Mac OS-X Server Mailman or not because it is a modified version
>of our package, and we don't know what the mods are.
Hi again,
	I sent some docs through to Barry Warsaw a long time back, 
but some oif the info contained in it are here:

http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node50.html

	I'm not sure just how much this may help the original poster or not.
-- 

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___________________________________________________________________
hEARd

Postal Address:
	hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd,	Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia
Internet -
	WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com
EMAIL: hmag at ozemail.com.au
Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400
Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400
-----------------------------------------------
Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994
-----------------------------------------------

From lorenzo.ortega at corp.ya.com  Thu Dec 14 11:06:03 2006
From: lorenzo.ortega at corp.ya.com (Lorenzo Ortega)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 11:06:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exclude Files csv
Message-ID: <4581220B.8070602@corp.ya.com>

    Hello All,

    I would like to know how can I exclude mails in only one list,
depending of what kind of attach.
   
    A lists is receiving mails with csv attachments and big zips, I
would like to stop them.

    sorry for my english, i've to improved it :-)

    Thanks in advance

   

-- 

Lorenzo Ortega
?rea de Aplicaciones - Correo

T-OnlineSpain
GrupoDeutsche Telekom
Edificio Gorbea 4
Avda. Bruselas, 20 1? planta
28108 Alcobendas - Madrid
Telf: +34 911 41 7874
 
Este mensaje puede contener informaci?n confidencial dirigida ?nicamente a su destinatario. Si usted no es el destinatario de este mensaje, seg?n consta en el mismo, por favor destruya el mensaje y advierta al remitente del error respondiendo a este mensaje por correo electr?nico. No est? autorizada la copia o entrega de este mensaje a quienes no son destinatarios del mismo. 


From alan at patriot.net  Thu Dec 14 12:59:03 2006
From: alan at patriot.net (Alan McConnell)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 06:59:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User unsubscribing
In-Reply-To: <p06240503c1a6768bda4a@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <20061213233501.GA3709@patriot.net>
	<p06240503c1a6768bda4a@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <20061214115903.GA1884@patriot.net>

On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 09:35:04PM -0600, Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 6:35 PM -0500 12/13/06, Alan McConnell wrote:
> 
> > But when I went back to check: there "I" am, still a member.
> >
> > My question: how can that happen?
> 
> The web page may have been cached at a proxy between you and the 
> server, or it may be cached internally to your web browser.  Try 
> doing a forced reload of the page from your web browser, and see if 
> you can figure out whether or not there is a transparent proxy 
> between you and the web server.
	I turn off my Linux machine at night, turn it on again in the
	morning.  It is now morning.  "I" am still a member.  My
	browser is firefox; yes, I know how to press the Reload Page
	button.

	But just to clinch it: I just accessed the admin page with
	lynx(which is almost always my browser of choice, since I am
	a dialup person, using my trusty US Robotics Sportster modem<g>).
	And there "I" was, still subscribed.

I would like Brad and Mark and anyone else's considered judgment that
whatever is running at PatriotNet, it ain't mailman as we know and
love it<g>.   It sure seems hosed to me.

TIA for piling on!

Alan

-- 
Alan McConnell :  http://patriot.net/users/alan
    There are many good Impeachment sites; one of the best is:
           www.waifllc.org

From igot at cprp.ca  Thu Dec 14 03:59:30 2006
From: igot at cprp.ca (Pierre Igot)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:59:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3: Outgoing
	messagesstuck in qrunner/in folder
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061213153118093787e19c5b@msapiro>
References: <PC176020061213153118093787e19c5b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <3F10FCB6-8E67-4A63-87C7-86132D86016E@cprp.ca>

On 06-12-13, at 19:31, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Pierre Igot wrote:
>>
>> I am running Mailman on an Xserve running Mac OS X Server 10.3.9. The
>> version of Mailman is the one included with Mac OS X Server 10.3.9.
>> (It's 2.1.2.)
>
>
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp>

I am aware of this page and checked it before sending my request for  
help. The page didn't provide any information that addressed my  
issue, as far as I could tell.

>> I used the web-based Mailman interface to submit the list of 500
>> email addresses for new subscribers, through the "Mass Subscription"
>> web form. I just copied the list of email addresses (separated by
>> return chars) from a text editor and pasted it in the field and
>> submitted. My mistake (I think) was that I submitted the entire list
>> of 500 email addresses at once. Initially it SEEMED to work, i.e. I
>> got a confirmation page listing all the subscribers that had been
>> added to the list.
>
>
> Yes, it worked. The hangup was probably because of trying to send
> notifications.

Right--but I didn't see any error messages about anything. (I checked  
all the logs.) So it was a failure that was not exactly graceful :).

>> But then I became unable to access the admin page for the list
>> altogether. The server would simply not respond. I could still access
>> other parts of the web-based Mailman interface, but not the pages for
>> this particular list.
>>
>> After a bit of on-line research, I discovered that the problem was
>> probably due to "locks" in the
>>
>> /var/mailman/locks/
>>
>> folder. Indeed, when I looked inside that folder, I found a whole
>> series of files named:
>>
>> ...
>
>
> Yes, the problem was these locks.

OK, so based on what you are saying, deleting these locks doesn't  
cause any further problems, right?

>> The instructions for dealing with this were not exactly clear, so I
>> just removed all these files so that the "locks" folder was empty.
>> After that, I was able to access the list's admin pages again. So I
>> thought everything was good.
>>
>> Then I tried to send a message to my subscribers. (It's a receive-
>> only list, so I'll be the only one sending messages.) However, the
>> message that I sent never got sent to the mailing list's subscribers.
>>
>> After more online research, I found out that my message was actually
>> stuck inside the
>>
>> /var/mailman/qfiles/in/
>>
>> folder. I also found that I could force Mailman to send the message
>> by using the command:
>>
>> /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner -r All
>
>
> So the mailmanctl daemon and the qrunners aren't running unless you
> start the qrunners manually as above, but this isn't the way to do it.
>
> If you had done
>
> /usr/share/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start
>
> you wouldn't have had to kill the qrunners.

Well, there was nothing anywhere that indicated that I had to run  
this command :).

Like I said, before the mass subscriptions, everything ran fine and I  
never had to run this command. If "mailmanctl" somehow stopped, it  
certainly didn't notify me. And there was nothing in the user  
interface for Mailman that indicated that this was the problem.

Running this command did indeed fix the problem. The messages are now  
sent out automatically. Thanks!

>> This never happened with this list before I added the 500 subscribers
>> and had to fiddle with the /locks/ folder. Prior to that, when I was
>> still in the stage of testing the mailing list with only a handful of
>> test subscribers, everything worked fine and the messages would get
>> sent automatically.
>
>
> I think in Mac OSX server, Mailman is installed as a service and the
> service runs mailmanctl. Somehow you have stopped the service and you
> need to restart it.

Well, I did not stop the service intentionally. The Mailman service  
is part of the "Mail" service (which also controls POP and SMTP) and  
there is nothing in the server admin software that indicates that  
mailmanctl is not running. Probably a shortcoming of Apple's server  
admin software.

In any case, now I know that if things are not going out, I need to  
check if this "mailmanctl" is running. Thanks.

It's the kind of thing that is probably obvious to most readers of  
this list, but I had to subscribe to the list and ask the question to  
find out myself (or spend many hours reading the entire Mailman  
documentation, I suppose).

>> My suspicion is that the problem is due to what I did in the /locks/
>> folder, that maybe I wasn't supposed to remove all the files. (I have
>> kept them on a local disk in case I need to move them back to that
>> folder.)
>
>
> I doubt that removing the locks had anything to do with it, but you
> might check ALL of Mailman's log files to see what kinds of errors and
> other conditions occurred.

OK. I did check all the log files, and didn't see any significant  
errors.

Thanks again.

Pierre
--
Pierre Igot, administrateur des syst?mes / Systems Administrator
www.cprp.ca
902-837-7391


From igot at cprp.ca  Thu Dec 14 14:53:21 2006
From: igot at cprp.ca (Pierre Igot)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 09:53:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3:
	Outgoingmessagesstuck in qrunner/in folder
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612132351280968ba4fe724@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200612132351280968ba4fe724@msapiro>
Message-ID: <A7E07762-2F33-419E-B262-9B2E07B4F613@cprp.ca>


On 06-12-14, at 03:51, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> WRT to mailmanctl, apparently the Mailman qrunners were running at  
> some
> time and then stopped. I don't know how they were started in the first
> place or why they stopped. Perhaps a reboot of the server would have
> started them again, perhaps not, but IMO, the fact that all this is
> not documented for you is Apple's failure, not ours.
>
> I think I can understand your frustration, and I am not trying to be
> unsympathetic. If you had installed our package, and found our
> installation manual lacking, we would do our best to supplement it or
> improve it. However, we really can't create documentation for packages
> whose details we have even less information about than you do.
> </rant>

Right, I understand your point of view perfectly.

On the other hand, the reality is that I, as a user, have to deal  
with "Apple's failure," as you call it, and that the best avenue for  
dealing with it, as far as I could tell, was to ask for help on this  
list. The fact that you were able to help me so quickly and with a  
single instruction proves my point :).

I *could* have submitted a bug report to Apple and waited for weeks  
or months until I got a reply.

I *could* have spent hours searching through Apple's "Discussions"  
forum on Mac OS X Server's Mail service, trying to find posts with  
the exact same issue, knowing full well that I barely had enough  
expertise to figure out the best keywords to use to describe the  
problem. ("messages," "stuck," "in folder" are not exactly very  
effective keywords, in that they are very generic)

I *could* have posted a request for help on the forum and waited for  
days to see if, by chance, anyone might be able to figure out what  
was going on on my machine.

I *could* have spent hours reading the Mailman documentation myself  
until I had figured out the fundamentals of Mailman myself.

But the reality was that, in all likelihood, this was a pretty basic  
problem that had to do with Mailman itself, that it probably had  
nothing to do with Apple's customizations, and that the most  
efficient way to get help was probably to submit a request to this list.

And, as I said, the quick (if reluctant) response you gave me proved  
my point.

The question is whether it really costs Mailman experts such as  
yourself so much effort to just provide such basic help from time to  
time to "newbies" like me using a possibly somewhat non-standard  
version of Mailman. (Based on what I have read, I don't think there  
is much difference between the Mailman 2.1.2 installed with Mac OS X  
Server 10.3 and your packages. It's just that everything is already  
included and installed, and can be turned on through the Server Admin  
GUI. And some file/folder locations are somewhat different from the  
standard Unix locations. But all the rest is probably the exact same.)

For what it's worth, if you ever need any basic help with some Mac- 
specific Mac OS X stuff, which is my expertise, I will be more than  
glad to help, even if you are not using the exact version of Mac OS X  
that I am currently working with :).

Thanks again.

Pierre


--
Pierre Igot, administrateur des syst?mes / Systems Administrator
www.cprp.ca
902-837-7391


From barry at python.org  Thu Dec 14 16:14:02 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 10:14:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3:
	Outgoingmessagesstuck in qrunner/in folder
In-Reply-To: <p06230900c1a6b9074bae@[203.53.37.182]>
References: <PC1760200612132351280968ba4fe724@msapiro>
	<p06230900c1a6b9074bae@[203.53.37.182]>
Message-ID: <07DC2DA9-090F-401E-875A-1F5761C7FD01@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Dec 14, 2006, at 3:18 AM, Terry Allen wrote:

> 	I sent some docs through to Barry Warsaw a long time back,
> but some oif the info contained in it are here:

Hi Terry, would you consider fleshing out OS X support on the Mailman  
wiki?  That's a much better place to maintain this type of  
information than in the docs.

http://wiki.list.org

- -Barry

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin)

iQCVAwUBRYFqOnEjvBPtnXfVAQKr6AQAs8GAEs/LkA4+iPA1wb73ZkynjlLosX9Y
dg6qSSNynLgSLffy0xB/e5VXCwx/B+q9iA8ZKfzpkRbjTywpDb0t04h8V0KjvYQz
De0In3pS4MMj0OAHpINwPBUS48MQ4lMvAj4kyuwKW4Gb8EsmbKSGil8TTlN9kb//
MZITo2oHEic=
=FwrF
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From steele at agora-net.com  Thu Dec 14 17:35:03 2006
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 11:35:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Case-Sensitivity Problem?
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612131201500000855b9a52@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200612131201500000855b9a52@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45817D37.9010100@agora-net.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Ryan Steele wrote:
>
>   
>> I think I've actually identified the problem. 
>>     
>
>
> I don't think so.
>
>
>   
>> Here is an excerpt from the mail header:
>>
>>     
>>> Received: from FOO at aol.com
>>>         by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id e.cef.43ab224 (57293);
>>>         Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:41:44 -0500 (EST)
>>> From: FOO at aol.com
>>> Message-ID: <cef.43ab224.32b16b26 at aol.com>
>>> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:41:42 EST
>>>       
>> And here is a message from Mailman's bounce log:
>>
>>     
>>> Dec 13 09:42:38 2006 (2202) bounce message w/no discernable addresses: 
>>>       
>> <cef.43ab224.32b16b26 at aol.com>
>>     
>>> Dec 13 09:42:38 2006 (2202) forwarding unrecognized, message-id: 
>>>       
>> <cef.43ab224.32b16b26 at aol.com>
>>
>> For whatever reason, Mailman treated the message-id that AOL gave it as 
>> the sender address...thus causing the "Uncaught bounce notification" 
>> error.   The actual bounce occurred because it was sent for moderator 
>> approval due to the large number of recipients:
>>     
>
>
> No. The 'bounce' occurred because one of the recipients was the
> Igcpgrads-bounces address.
>
>
>   
The original recipients list did not include the Igcpgrads-bounces 
address; I can confirm this.
>>> vette:Dec 13 09:38:51 2006 (2204) Igcpgrads post from foo at aol.com 
>>>       
>> held, message-id=<cce.5a1853c.3
>>     
>>> 2b16a2d at aol.com>: Too many recipients to the message
>>>       
>
>
> And the message was held because the number of explicit addresses in
> To: and Cc: of the message was greater than or equal to Privacy
> options...->Recipient filters->max_num_recipients.
>
>   
Yes, I realize this.  But, there's no reason for the log to indicate 
that <cef.43ab224.32b16b26 at aol.com>
was being considered as an indiscernable address.  It ought to have been 
able to extrapolate the real AOL address of the sender, don't you think?

-- 
Ryan Steele                         
Systems Administrator               steele at agora-net.com
AgoraNet, Inc.                      (302) 224-2475
314 E. Main Street, Suite 1         (302) 224-2552 (fax)
Newark, DE 19711                    http://www.agora-net.com


From cpz at tuunq.com  Thu Dec 14 18:18:31 2006
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 09:18:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3:
 Outgoingmessagesstuck in qrunner/in folder
In-Reply-To: <A7E07762-2F33-419E-B262-9B2E07B4F613@cprp.ca> from Pierre Igot
	at "Dec 14, 2006 09:53:21 am"
Message-ID: <20061214171831.8D8C37AE@mail.tuunq.com>

[not speaking for Mark, Barry, or really anyone but me]

This is really the classic IT problem of unsupported configurations.

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Pierre Igot wrote:

> But the reality was that, in all likelihood, this was a pretty basic  
> problem that had to do with Mailman itself, that it probably had  
> nothing to do with Apple's customizations, and that the most  
> efficient way to get help was probably to submit a request to this list.

>From my dim memories, this probably isn't the case as often as it is
(the recent thread on pipermail and debian?). Also, if it's a common
problem, it's likely to have been addresed in the FAQ or sometime
earlier on this list. The number of people that don't check either
resource is astounding (esp as evidenced by the responses that simple
say "check faq x.yy").

> The question is whether it really costs Mailman experts such as  
> yourself so much effort to just provide such basic help from time to  
> time to "newbies" like me using a possibly somewhat non-standard  
> version of Mailman. 

The problem that comes up far too often is that someone, such as Mark,
says "what's in the vette log?" or "delete /usr/local/mailman/lists/fred.lock"
and the questioner says "where is it?" or "But I don't -have- a 
/usr/local/mailman" directory". We then start playing 20 questions-
do you have root access?
which version is installed?
which pakcaged version is installed?
etc.  (iirc, all if which is in faq 3.14)

Given that mailman and the support are free, I think it's a bit
much to expect that the maintainers know exactly how each distributor
builds their package (directories, options, etc). They can only say
"on a stock system, it works like this", and sometimes "there's a vette
log somewhere, please find it".

z!
former IT manager

From sean.murphy at iname.com  Thu Dec 14 18:31:59 2006
From: sean.murphy at iname.com (Sean Murphy)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 17:31:59 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman virtual applicance?
Message-ID: <7CD2A7DF-0BA0-4CC2-821C-FDC37642B874@iname.com>

Hi,

I would like to install a mailman list server on a machine
with as little difficulty as possible - a nice way to do this,
I think, is using the virtual appliance idea - has anyone
created a mailman virtual appliance for VMWare or for
Xen?

Thanks,
Se?n.


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec 14 18:46:32 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 09:46:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Case-Sensitivity Problem?
In-Reply-To: <45817D37.9010100@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061214094632090166f39a85@msapiro>

Ryan Steele wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Ryan Steele wrote:
>>   
>>> Here is an excerpt from the mail header:
>>>
>>>     
>>>> Received: from FOO at aol.com
>>>>         by imo-m26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id e.cef.43ab224 (57293);
>>>>         Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:41:44 -0500 (EST)
>>>> From: FOO at aol.com
>>>> Message-ID: <cef.43ab224.32b16b26 at aol.com>
>>>> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:41:42 EST
>>>>       
>>> And here is a message from Mailman's bounce log:
>>>
>>>     
>>>> Dec 13 09:42:38 2006 (2202) bounce message w/no discernable addresses: 
>>>>       
>>> <cef.43ab224.32b16b26 at aol.com>


This is the Message-Id: of the 'bounce' message, not an address.

     
>>>> Dec 13 09:42:38 2006 (2202) forwarding unrecognized, message-id: 
>>>>       
>>> <cef.43ab224.32b16b26 at aol.com>


ditto.


>>> For whatever reason, Mailman treated the message-id that AOL gave it as 
>>> the sender address...thus causing the "Uncaught bounce notification" 
>>> error.


No. That is not what is happening. The message with Message-Id:
<cef.43ab224.32b16b26 at aol.com> was piped to Mailman's mail wrapper for
the 'bounces' address of the Igcpgrads list. Assuming your aliases or
whatever the incoming MTA uses to deliver to mailman are in order,
this means the message was delivered to the Igcpgrads-bounces address.

If you would like to see this in action, send an ordinary email to the
Igcpgrads-bounces address. The owner will receive the same
unrecognized bounce notice and antries like the above will be in the
bounce log.


>>> The actual bounce occurred because it was sent for moderator 
>>> approval due to the large number of recipients:
>>>     
>>
>>
>> No. The 'bounce' occurred because one of the recipients was the
>> Igcpgrads-bounces address.


There was no real bounce. The message was delivered to both the
Igcpgrads posting address and the Igcpgrads-bounces address. The
'post' was held for too many recipients, and the 'bounce' was
unrecognized as a delivery status notification and was treated as any
unrecognized bounce.

Two separate mail deliveries; two separate actions.

 
>The original recipients list did not include the Igcpgrads-bounces 
>address; I can confirm this.


Which original recipients list? You can't confirm this from any message
headers. The only way you could confirm where the message was or
wasn't delivered is from your MTA logs. Perhaps the Igcpgrads-bounces
address was a Bcc: in the original message.

Was the original post a reply to another post? If so, perhaps the
poster's MUA added the Sender: of the original to the recipient list
of the reply. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>
for some additional information.


>> And the message was held because the number of explicit addresses in
>> To: and Cc: of the message was greater than or equal to Privacy
>> options...->Recipient filters->max_num_recipients.
>>
>>   
>Yes, I realize this.  But, there's no reason for the log to indicate 
>that <cef.43ab224.32b16b26 at aol.com>
>was being considered as an indiscernable address.  It ought to have been 
>able to extrapolate the real AOL address of the sender, don't you think?


Nowhere does any log entry you have provided say that
<cef.43ab224.32b16b26 at aol.com> is an indiscernable address. The
entries in the bounce log say that a message with Message-Id:
<cef.43ab224.32b16b26 at aol.com> was received by bounce processing and
that bounce processing could not recognize the body of that message as
a bounce with discernable addresses - not surprising as the body of
the message was a list post, not a DSN.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Thu Dec 14 18:57:49 2006
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 12:57:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Case-Sensitivity Problem?
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061214094632090166f39a85@msapiro>
References: <45817D37.9010100@agora-net.com>
	<PC176020061214094632090166f39a85@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20061214175749.GB31311@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Mark Sapiro (msapiro at value.net):
> Was the original post a reply to another post? If so, perhaps the
> poster's MUA added the Sender: of the original to the recipient list
> of the reply. See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>
> for some additional information.

What that FAQ entry doesn't mention is that, at least they way they have
it configured at Kodak, Lotus Notes will reply to the Sender rather than
the Reply-To, so a reply to the message will go to the list-bounces
address rather than the list address.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
I'm pro-lifevest and I boat.

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec 14 19:02:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 10:02:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] User unsubscribing
In-Reply-To: <20061214115903.GA1884@patriot.net>
Message-ID: <PC176020061214100250007475b6eedc@msapiro>

Alan McConnell wrote:

>On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 09:35:04PM -0600, Brad Knowles wrote:
>> At 6:35 PM -0500 12/13/06, Alan McConnell wrote:
>> 
>> > But when I went back to check: there "I" am, still a member.
>> >
>> > My question: how can that happen?
>> 
>> The web page may have been cached at a proxy between you and the 
>> server, or it may be cached internally to your web browser.  Try 
>> doing a forced reload of the page from your web browser, and see if 
>> you can figure out whether or not there is a transparent proxy 
>> between you and the web server.
>	I turn off my Linux machine at night, turn it on again in the
>	morning.  It is now morning.  "I" am still a member.  My
>	browser is firefox; yes, I know how to press the Reload Page
>	button.
>
>	But just to clinch it: I just accessed the admin page with
>	lynx(which is almost always my browser of choice, since I am
>	a dialup person, using my trusty US Robotics Sportster modem<g>).
>	And there "I" was, still subscribed.
>
>I would like Brad and Mark and anyone else's considered judgment that
>whatever is running at PatriotNet, it ain't mailman as we know and
>love it<g>.   It sure seems hosed to me.


You still haven't absolutely ruled out Brad's suggestion that the page
is cached in a proxy server at patriot.net, but at this point, it does
seem increasingly unlikely.

Your OP said

>So: this afternoon I unsubscribed myself, using lynx, from one of my
>other addresses, because a member had written there was a problem.
>And my "unsubscribe" seemed to go through, and I got, at this address,
>a message from mailman-bounces that indeed "I", at my other address,
>had been removed . . .

It is hard to imagine how that owner notification of the unsubscribe
was sent if it hadn't actually been done.

You also said

>I can test my E-list in various ways, because I'm subscribed from
>a couple of addresses, in addition to adminning it from the E-address
>you're getting this from.

Are you certain the address you unsubscribed is the EXACT address you
still see on the membership list?

What happens if you check the 'unsub' box on the membership list and
'submit'? And, is that address still recieving list mail?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From igot at cprp.ca  Thu Dec 14 19:03:16 2006
From: igot at cprp.ca (Pierre Igot)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 14:03:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3:
	Outgoingmessagesstuck in qrunner/in folder
In-Reply-To: <20061214171831.8D8C37AE@mail.tuunq.com>
References: <20061214171831.8D8C37AE@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <130C443D-D1F3-43B9-85B9-203BCC4656B3@cprp.ca>


On 06-12-14, at 13:18, Carl Zwanzig wrote:

>> But the reality was that, in all likelihood, this was a pretty basic
>> problem that had to do with Mailman itself, that it probably had
>> nothing to do with Apple's customizations, and that the most
>> efficient way to get help was probably to submit a request to this  
>> list.
>
> From my dim memories, this probably isn't the case as often as it is
> (the recent thread on pipermail and debian?). Also, if it's a common
> problem, it's likely to have been addresed in the FAQ or sometime
> earlier on this list. The number of people that don't check either
> resource is astounding (esp as evidenced by the responses that simple
> say "check faq x.yy").

Believe it or not, I did check the FAQ before submitting my request.

Try searching for all keywords "message stuck qfiles/in" or simply  
for "qfiles" in the FAQ, for example. It doesn't return anything that  
would have helped in my case.


>> The question is whether it really costs Mailman experts such as
>> yourself so much effort to just provide such basic help from time to
>> time to "newbies" like me using a possibly somewhat non-standard
>> version of Mailman.
>
> The problem that comes up far too often is that someone, such as Mark,
> says "what's in the vette log?" or "delete /usr/local/mailman/lists/ 
> fred.lock"
> and the questioner says "where is it?" or "But I don't -have- a
> /usr/local/mailman" directory". We then start playing 20 questions-
> do you have root access?
> which version is installed?
> which pakcaged version is installed?
> etc.  (iirc, all if which is in faq 3.14)

OK, but that didn't happen in my case as far as I know. My problem  
did not require any references to Mac OS X-specific things. I only  
provided the Mac-specific information as a courtesy, because it was  
part of list etiquette.

Mark provided me with a one-line Unix command that happened to work  
with my version of Mailman in Mac OS X, but if it hadn't worked, I  
would have simply tried to find where "mailmanctl" was on my system,  
without bothering the list with such a detail. As it happens, I  
didn't have to do this, but I would have done it if required. So I  
don't feel that there was anything in my case that forced anyone to  
deal with non-standard issues.

> Given that mailman and the support are free, I think it's a bit
> much to expect that the maintainers know exactly how each distributor
> builds their package (directories, options, etc). They can only say
> "on a stock system, it works like this", and sometimes "there's a  
> vette
> log somewhere, please find it".

And that's all that I was asking for. I didn't ask for anything  
beyond this.

Pierre


--
Pierre Igot, administrateur des syst?mes / Systems Administrator
www.cprp.ca
902-837-7391


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec 14 19:29:19 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 10:29:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exclude Files csv
In-Reply-To: <4581220B.8070602@corp.ya.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612141029190185f25d900c@msapiro>

Lorenzo Ortega wrote:
>
>    I would like to know how can I exclude mails in only one list,
>depending of what kind of attach.


See the list admin interface Content filtering options. You can filter
based on MIME type, and beginning with Mailman 2.1.6 you can also
filter based on file name extension.

Note that this will only remove unwanted message parts, not the entire
message unless all its parts are removed. If you want to
reject/discard the entire message if it contains any '.csv' or '.zip'
attachments, you can ust Privacy options...->Spam
filters->header_filter_rules to do that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From adamsca at gmail.com  Thu Dec 14 19:29:39 2006
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 10:29:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] join script
Message-ID: <27572d930612141029kad61a72w83116cf8d75cbed3@mail.gmail.com>

A user had been sending subscription requests to the listname-join
address and was being rejected. I realized that I hadn't even thought
about mailman's alias addresses. So, I began to investigate and some
user manual says  that a user can send to the listname-join or
listname-subscribe to request to be subscribed. I assume that means
that no commands are sent, as is done with the listname-request
address.

So, I sent a message to the listname-join address of one of my test
lists, with no commands. The result was:

listname-join at wherever.com on 12/14/2006 9:59 AM
            Failed (cannot append message to destination file
/|/var/mailman/mail/mailman join listname: cannot create file
exclusively: No    such file or directory)


It appears that mailman is trying to write some temp file or something
and doesn't have write permissions. Can anyone clarify what I need to
modify to make this work?


-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec 14 20:14:36 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 11:14:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] join script
In-Reply-To: <27572d930612141029kad61a72w83116cf8d75cbed3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612141114360907b854b20f@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:
>
>So, I sent a message to the listname-join address of one of my test
>lists, with no commands. The result was:
>
>listname-join at wherever.com on 12/14/2006 9:59 AM
>            Failed (cannot append message to destination file
>/|/var/mailman/mail/mailman join listname: cannot create file
>exclusively: No    such file or directory)


It looks like the alias that should look something like

listname-join:  "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman join listname"

has an extraneous '/' as perhaps

listname-join:  "/|/var/mailman/mail/mailman join listname"

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From adamsca at gmail.com  Thu Dec 14 20:56:41 2006
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 11:56:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] join script
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612141114360907b854b20f@msapiro>
References: <27572d930612141029kad61a72w83116cf8d75cbed3@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1760200612141114360907b854b20f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <27572d930612141156q58dd2e8etf70f59f970dc0e0e@mail.gmail.com>

Mark,

Thanks for spotting that. I don't know why the aliases were formatted
that way. It looks like the pipe was being escaped or something. I
hadn't thought that it was an alias problem because most everything
seemed to be working, including sending subscription requests to the
listname-request address. That's another question - what is the
difference between subscribing by sending a blank message or a
'subscribe' command to listname-join and sendilng a 'subscribe'
command to listname-request? It appears that they do the same thing. I
guess that's why we call them aliases. :>)

On 12/14/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Christopher Adams wrote:
> >
> >So, I sent a message to the listname-join address of one of my test
> >lists, with no commands. The result was:
> >
> >listname-join at wherever.com on 12/14/2006 9:59 AM
> >            Failed (cannot append message to destination file
> >/|/var/mailman/mail/mailman join listname: cannot create file
> >exclusively: No    such file or directory)
>
>
> It looks like the alias that should look something like
>
> listname-join:  "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman join listname"
>
> has an extraneous '/' as perhaps
>
> listname-join:  "/|/var/mailman/mail/mailman join listname"
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


-- 
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec 14 21:33:40 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 12:33:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] join script
In-Reply-To: <27572d930612141156q58dd2e8etf70f59f970dc0e0e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612141233400408b92d69a0@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:
>
>That's another question - what is the
>difference between subscribing by sending a blank message or a
>'subscribe' command to listname-join and sendilng a 'subscribe'
>command to listname-request? It appears that they do the same thing. I
>guess that's why we call them aliases. :>)


They don't exactly do the same thing.

A message to listname-request can contain one or more syntactically
correct commands of various kinds in the body and possibly one in the
subject.

The subscribe command sent to listname-request can optionally specify a
password to be applied to the subscription, digest/regular, and an
address other than the From: address to subscribe.

If a message is sent to listname-join or listname-subscribe, the
subject and body of the message are ignored and it is processed as if
it contained a single 'subscribe' command with no options.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jrotunno at swarthmore.edu  Thu Dec 14 21:23:25 2006
From: jrotunno at swarthmore.edu (Jason Rotunno)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 15:23:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow Processing/Delivery
Message-ID: <4581B2BD.9050605@swarthmore.edu>

Hi,

We're experiencing some significant delays with our mailman lists. Some 
messages are delivered instantly, while others can take hours (or over a 
day) before it's delivered. For example, a message came in at 4:07am and 
was passed on to  mailman for processing:

Dec 13 04:07:43 cork postfix/nqmgr[30962]: 45D6040050: from=<XXXX at XXXX>, 
size=28307, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Dec 13 04:07:43 cork postfix/local[18473]: 45D6040050: to=<star at XXXX>, 
relay=local, delay=1, status=sent ("|/var/mailman/mail/mailman post star")

The mail wasn't actually sent out from the mailman list until 2:25pm, 
though:

Dec 13 14:25:20 cork postfix/nqmgr[30962]: BE6DC3FCCD: 
from=<star-bounces at XXXX>, size=29664, nrcpt=7 (queue active)
Dec 13 14:25:20 cork postfix/nqmgr[30962]: C85E53FCCE: 
from=<star-bounces at XXXX>, size=29688, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Dec 13 14:25:20 cork postfix/nqmgr[30962]: CFDB03FCCF: 
from=<star-bounces at XXXX>, size=29664, nrcpt=8 (queue active)
Dec 13 14:51:34 cork postfix/nqmgr[30962]: C85E53FCCE: 
from=<star-bounces at XXXX>, size=29688, nrcpt=1 (queue active)

We're running about 8-10 mailing lists, with membership numbers ranging 
from a dozen members to about 1,000 (though there isn't much activity on 
any of them), and our MTA is postfix. The delays aren't confined to one 
list and they're not consistent. I don't believe there are mail delivery 
delays with messages not sent to mailman. Does mailman do any kind of 
prioritizing depending on system load?

From carconni at earthlink.net  Thu Dec 14 22:43:04 2006
From: carconni at earthlink.net (Carconni)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 13:43:04 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] additional Mailman Admin accounts
Message-ID: <13465867.1166132584892.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hi,

Is it possible to create an additional Mailman admin account.  I have a department director who want access over all his department's mailing lists.  He wants to be able to use one username and password without changing the individual list passwords.  Is there a way to do this?  We can't give them the mailman account info so we need to find an alternative.

Thanks



From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Dec 14 22:26:19 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 15:26:19 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Case-Sensitivity Problem?
In-Reply-To: <45817D37.9010100@agora-net.com>
References: <PC1760200612131201500000855b9a52@msapiro>
	<45817D37.9010100@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <p06240500c1a770ed68d4@[10.0.1.11]>

At 11:35 AM -0500 12/14/06, Ryan Steele wrote:

>  Yes, I realize this.  But, there's no reason for the log to indicate
>  that <cef.43ab224.32b16b26 at aol.com>
>  was being considered as an indiscernable address.

That's not quite what happened.  Let's go back to an earlier message, 
where you quoted:

>  And here is a message from Mailman's bounce log:
>
>>  Dec 13 09:42:38 2006 (2202) bounce message w/no discernable addresses:
>>  <cef.43ab224.32b16b26 at aol.com>
>>  Dec 13 09:42:38 2006 (2202) forwarding unrecognized, message-id:
>>  <cef.43ab224.32b16b26 at aol.com>

In the case of the first line, it's telling you that some sort of 
message was received to the -bounces address for the list, but it's 
not something that Mailman recognized as a bounce that it could 
parse.  But it did identify the message in question, although it 
didn't specifically use the term "message-id".

In the second line, it did explicitly use the term "message-id", but 
it's still talking about the same message with the same problem, only 
now it's telling you that it's forwarding this message to a human.


>                                                     It ought to have been
>  able to extrapolate the real AOL address of the sender, don't you think?

Whatever happened, I'm sure that Mailman would have been able to 
determine who the claimed sender of the message was.  The problem was 
that, for some reason, it was delivered to the -bounces address for 
the list (as opposed to some other address), and yet it was not 
formatted like any bounce that Mailman knows how to recognize.

The fault here almost certainly is not with AOL per se, nor with 
Mailman.  The fault lies in however a message that was intended to be 
posted to the list was instead somehow delivered to the -bounces 
address, and then dealing with the fallout from that situation.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Dec 14 22:38:35 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 15:38:35 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3:
 Outgoingmessagesstuck in qrunner/in folder
In-Reply-To: <130C443D-D1F3-43B9-85B9-203BCC4656B3@cprp.ca>
References: <20061214171831.8D8C37AE@mail.tuunq.com>
	<130C443D-D1F3-43B9-85B9-203BCC4656B3@cprp.ca>
Message-ID: <p06240501c1a7726bc245@[10.0.1.11]>

At 2:03 PM -0400 12/14/06, Pierre Igot wrote:

>  Believe it or not, I did check the FAQ before submitting my request.

I do believe it.

>  Try searching for all keywords "message stuck qfiles/in" or simply
>  for "qfiles" in the FAQ, for example. It doesn't return anything that
>  would have helped in my case.

The problem is that we cannot know beforehand all the possible search 
terms that people might use to describe any given particular type of 
problem.  We can guess, and we can try to capture what we think are 
the most likely types of descriptions, but that's always a guess and 
there will always be someone who doesn't make the same guess and 
instead searches for something else.  We can get better at covering 
more potential different descriptions, but we cannot ever be perfect.

>  OK, but that didn't happen in my case as far as I know. My problem
>  did not require any references to Mac OS X-specific things. I only
>  provided the Mac-specific information as a courtesy, because it was
>  part of list etiquette.

Actually, there is an Apple-specific issue here.  Apple has their own 
way of starting and stopping the Mailman queue runners and associated 
processes.  If your queue runners aren't running, then you're going 
to have the kinds of problems that you saw -- regardless of what 
method is used to stop or start them.

If you're using the Apple-provided code to manage Mailman, you're not 
going to know anything about the Mailman queue runners.  All you're 
going to know is that something is broken.

So, we have to work backwards from the "it's broke" state to figure 
out what is broken and who is responsible for that code.  Now that we 
know your problem was a result of the queue runners not actually 
running, we can tell you that you need to start the queue runners, 
but since you're using MacOS X Server we can't tell you precisely 
what the "correct" way is to start them.  We can tell you what the 
Mailman-standard was is to start them, but Apple has created their 
own code to manage this aspect of Mailman operations and they haven't 
shared that with us.


Which leads us to the general issue of people expecting us to provide 
support for a system that someone else has taken and modified, but 
without sharing any of those changes with us.

Even if the core Mailman system itself is unchanged from what we 
shipped, they have changed the interface that is used to manage 
Mailman, but none of the people on this list know anything about it.

Hell, the guy who runs lists.apple.com doesn't know anything about 
it, and he's running Mailman on machines at Apple that are running 
MacOS X Server, for Apple users on Apple-specific products -- but 
even he's not using the Apple-provided version of Mailman.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Dec 14 22:45:10 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 15:45:10 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow Processing/Delivery
In-Reply-To: <4581B2BD.9050605@swarthmore.edu>
References: <4581B2BD.9050605@swarthmore.edu>
Message-ID: <p06240502c1a77518639e@[10.0.1.11]>

At 3:23 PM -0500 12/14/06, Jason Rotunno wrote:

>  We're experiencing some significant delays with our mailman lists. Some
>  messages are delivered instantly, while others can take hours (or over a
>  day) before it's delivered.

A certain amount of delay is not unusual, and variable amounts of 
delay for busy servers is not unusual.

What is unusual is the level of variable delay you're talking about.

>  We're running about 8-10 mailing lists, with membership numbers ranging
>  from a dozen members to about 1,000 (though there isn't much activity on
>  any of them), and our MTA is postfix. The delays aren't confined to one
>  list and they're not consistent. I don't believe there are mail delivery
>  delays with messages not sent to mailman.

There's some stuff in the FAQ on performance-tuning, but most of it 
has to do with things that are outside of Mailman itself.

>                                             Does mailman do any kind of
>  prioritizing depending on system load?

Nope.


Things you can do with Mailman include splitting large lists up into 
several smaller lists and then setting up a parent "umbrella" list to 
take over the function of the existing single list.  This helps 
performance internal to Mailman itself by reducing competition for 
locks on the Python database where all the list configuration and 
user subscription information is stored.

You can also create multiple sets of queue runners for each queue, 
and they will process the data in that queue in parallel.  However, 
this is a pretty advanced configuration for Mailman, and is not well 
documented.  What little documentation you will find on this subject 
is mostly contained within the source code and the Defaults.py file, 
as opposed to the FAQ Wizard.


Of course, you want to do all the other performance tuning things 
that are described in the FAQ, to make sure that as much of system 
performance as possible is made available to Mailman, and you don't 
have multiple processes fighting for limited resources.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Thu Dec 14 22:59:46 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 15:59:46 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] additional Mailman Admin accounts
In-Reply-To: <13465867.1166132584892.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net
	>
References: <13465867.1166132584892.JavaMail.root@elwamui-lapwing.atl.sa.earthlink.net
	>
Message-ID: <p06240504c1a779225600@[10.0.1.11]>

At 1:43 PM -0800 12/14/06, Carconni wrote:

>  Is it possible to create an additional Mailman admin account.  I have
>  a department director who want access over all his department's mailing
>  lists.  He wants to be able to use one username and password without
>  changing the individual list passwords.  Is there a way to do this?  We
>  can't give them the mailman account info so we need to find an alternative.

The Mailman site admin password can be used to administer any list. 
Of course, the individual list admin password can always be reset, 
either by another Mailman list admin or by the site admin.

But in all cases, all you're talking about is a password -- there is 
no separate account name associated with that.  Anyone who has the 
password gets in, but if you don't have the password then you are 
kept out.  It's not like you have to specify both username and 
password -- it's password only.


With regards to admin passwords, those are the only choices. 
Anything else will require source code modifications.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From tmz at pobox.com  Thu Dec 14 23:32:52 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 17:32:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3:
	Outgoingmessagesstuck in qrunner/in folder
In-Reply-To: <p06240501c1a7726bc245@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <20061214171831.8D8C37AE@mail.tuunq.com>
	<130C443D-D1F3-43B9-85B9-203BCC4656B3@cprp.ca>
	<p06240501c1a7726bc245@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <20061214223252.GF2697@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> We can tell you what the Mailman-standard was is to start them, but
> Apple has created their own code to manage this aspect of Mailman
> operations and they haven't shared that with us.

Apple does provide the source code for their mailman packages.  You
can browse it here:

http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/Current/mailman-117/

And download a tarball of that stuff:

http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/tarballs/other/mailman-117.tar.gz

AFAICT, the -117 is an Apple internal number.  Browsing the full list
shows similar, non-upstream numbers for many other packages.

The full list of open source code for Mac OS X 10.4.8 for PPC is at:

http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/Current/

So, while it seems fair to say that many of the very knowledgeable
folks here don't know the specifics of the Apple packaged mailman, it
doesn't seem quite as fair to say that Apple hasn't shared their
changes.  They are available for anyone to download and check out.

Compare that to cPanel where the best you find if you're not a
customer is a half-backed and outdated patch (which I was provided
only after persistent requests).

Disclaimer: I don't know anything about the Apple packages and the
only Apple product I own is an iPod. :)

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
Don't take life seriously, you'll never get out alive.

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 542 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20061214/0e46699e/attachment.pgp 

From steveb at webpaving.com  Thu Dec 14 22:46:25 2006
From: steveb at webpaving.com (Steven Bonisteel)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 16:46:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting language on e-mail subscribes?
Message-ID: <200612142146.kBELkOE7026652@edna.typecast.net>


Is there a command available via the e-mail interface to have a subscription request set the preferred language at the same time?

We would like the language of the confirmation process and the eventual welcome message to be set to a preference selected by the user (in a front-end form) *before* they are actually members.

So, basically, we want to do via e-mail what you can do in Mailman's own Web interface for subscriptions.

(In this case, the Mailman server is not accessible to the sign-up site.)



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec 15 00:41:26 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 15:41:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow Processing/Delivery
In-Reply-To: <4581B2BD.9050605@swarthmore.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602006121415412609589af5d798@msapiro>

Jason Rotunno wrote:
>
>Does mailman do any kind of 
>prioritizing depending on system load?


No. Each of mailman's queues (only 'in' and 'out' for message
processing and delivery) is processed FIFO and as quickly as
resources, and in the case of 'out', MTA responses allow.

Brad has given some good info in his reply. Also, look at Mailman's
'smtp' log and correlate the entries there with the Postfix log. Some
cases of slow delivery can result from a backlogged 'out' queue, and
this will show up in the entries in the 'smtp' log having time stamps
which are equal to the prior entry's time stamp plus the processing
time.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec 15 01:12:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 16:12:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting language on e-mail subscribes?
In-Reply-To: <200612142146.kBELkOE7026652@edna.typecast.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612141612330614f25d91c7@msapiro>

Steven Bonisteel wrote:
>
>Is there a command available via the e-mail interface to have a subscription request set the preferred language at the same time?


No.

It would not be too dificult to implement. You would have to decide on
a syntax for specifying language on the subscribe command and then
modify Mailman/Commands/cmd_subscribe.py to parse and validate the
language and add a 'lang' argument to the instantiation of the
UserDesc object for the AddMember call.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jrotunno at swarthmore.edu  Fri Dec 15 01:54:03 2006
From: jrotunno at swarthmore.edu (jrotunno at swarthmore.edu)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 19:54:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow Processing/Delivery
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006121415412609589af5d798@msapiro>
References: <4581B2BD.9050605@swarthmore.edu>
	<PC17602006121415412609589af5d798@msapiro>
Message-ID: <2308.66.92.236.243.1166144043.squirrel@swatmail.swarthmore.edu>

Thanks for the replies. I checked out the log files and saw problems. The
example I gave in my previous message, for example, generated a bunch of
stuff. In the post logs I saw this repeated throughout the day until the
message was delivered:

post.1:Dec 13 04:39:48 2006 (23382) post to star from XXXX at XXXX.com,
size=28696, message-id=<327B036070F4D945B189BAB84E4A92C36F5D5D at XXXX.com>,
16 failures


The same goes for these in the smtp-failure logs:

Dec 13 04:29:46 2006 (23382) Low level smtp error: Connection unexpectedly
closed, msgid: <327B036070F4D945B189BAB84E4A92C36F5D5D at XXXX.com>

Dec 13 04:39:48 2006 (23382) delivery to XXXX at XXXX failed with code -
1: Connection unexpectedly closed

Anyone know what exactly these mean or how to handle it? Or point me in
the right direction of where to look to get this resolved since it's an
smtp problem?

Thanks,
Jason


From leowu at mail.fareast.com.tw  Fri Dec 15 02:22:50 2006
From: leowu at mail.fareast.com.tw (=?utf-8?B?6YGg5p2x5ZyW5pu45YWs5Y+4?=)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 09:22:50 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ask create list question
References: <PC1760200612130931040406f7176ffa@msapiro>
Message-ID: <007701c71fe7$9136e9b0$d401000a@fareast.local>

Yes, I enter my password  in  the "List creator's (authentication) password:" box , and my password is only contaion  'us-ascii' characters! 
And I found something strangely. I use the command mode to create a list successful I can use command "list_lists" to see it  but 
when I use web ui to conform .. it shows "there are no this lists"  
Did I miss anything  to make this happen?

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Mark Sapiro 
  To: ?????? ; mailman-users at python.org 
  Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 1:31 AM
  Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Ask create list question


  leowu at mail.fareast.com.tw wrote:

  >    I just try to installthe mailman-2.1.9 and it looks work but when I want
  >to creat a new list
  >it alway show "Error: You are not authorized to create new mailing lists"
  >
  >I use the command "bin/mmsitepass xxxxxx" twice and creat the new list via
  >web ui but
  >it still shwo the same message ! What can I do to solve this problem 


  Are you entering this exact password in the "List creator's
  (authentication) password:" box at the bottom of the form?

  Does the password contain only 'us-ascii' characters? If not, it may be
  getting munged in the web posting process.

  -- 
  Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
  San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec 15 02:28:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 17:28:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow Processing/Delivery
In-Reply-To: <2308.66.92.236.243.1166144043.squirrel@swatmail.swarthmore.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17602006121417283307087a1ef145@msapiro>

jrotunno at swarthmore.edu wrote:
>
>post.1:Dec 13 04:39:48 2006 (23382) post to star from XXXX at XXXX.com,
>size=28696, message-id=<327B036070F4D945B189BAB84E4A92C36F5D5D at XXXX.com>,
>16 failures


The smtp-failure entries give more info about the same event.


>The same goes for these in the smtp-failure logs:
>
>Dec 13 04:29:46 2006 (23382) Low level smtp error: Connection unexpectedly
>closed, msgid: <327B036070F4D945B189BAB84E4A92C36F5D5D at XXXX.com>
>
>Dec 13 04:39:48 2006 (23382) delivery to XXXX at XXXX failed with code -
>1: Connection unexpectedly closed


The outgoing MTA is 'hanging up' on Mailman during SMTP delivery from
Mailman. This may be because of something it doesn't like about a
recipient or some other reason. It should not be doing DNS validation,
spam scanning or any such things on messages coming from Mailman. That
is a real performance killer. See the relevant hits from
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=performance&querytype=simple&casefold=yes&req=search>.


>Anyone know what exactly these mean or how to handle it? Or point me in
>the right direction of where to look to get this resolved since it's an
>smtp problem?


If your Python is 2.4 or later, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.073.htp>
for a way to get debugging information from Python's smtplib.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Dec 15 02:50:35 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 10:50:35 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server
	10.3:	Outgoingmessagesstuck in qrunner/in folder
In-Reply-To: <20061214223252.GF2697@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
References: <20061214171831.8D8C37AE@mail.tuunq.com>
	<130C443D-D1F3-43B9-85B9-203BCC4656B3@cprp.ca>
	<p06240501c1a7726bc245@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061214223252.GF2697@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <877iwurkpg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Todd Zullinger writes:

 > Brad Knowles wrote:

 > > We can tell you what the Mailman-standard was is to start them, but
 > > Apple has created their own code to manage this aspect of Mailman
 > > operations and they haven't shared that with us.
 > 
 > Apple does provide the source code for their mailman packages.  You
 > can browse it here:

We're not talking about "shared" as you will find it defined on
webster.com, this is "shared" as used by Richard Stallman.[1]
"Sharing" is active contribution to the mainline, it's not merely
posting your code for others to pick up and analyze.

This usage makes some sense, because the creators of a forked product
have already done most of that analysis.  That doesn't mean they're
not liable to substantial additional work, of course, and open source
doesn't oblige them to do it.  But by the same token the Mailman
developers are forced (by lack of resources to do such analysis
themselves) to take the position that this code hasn't been
contributed to the project, so they can't know much about it.

 > So, while it seems fair to say that many of the very knowledgeable
 > folks here don't know the specifics of the Apple packaged mailman, it
 > doesn't seem quite as fair to say that Apple hasn't shared their
 > changes.

It's not "fair", but that's the customary usage of the verb "to share"
in the parts of this community that I frequent.

 > Compare that to cPanel where the best you find if you're not a
 > customer is a half-backed and outdated patch (which I was provided
 > only after persistent requests).

Sure, Apple is doing the open source thing by the letter of the law,
and that is no small thing.  But the problem presented to the
maintainers of the mainline by Apple's fork is of the same variety as
the problem presented by cPanel.


Footnotes: 
[1]  No, I don't approve of this usage, that's why I attribute it to a
famous extremist.  "Extremism in the defense of freedom is no vice."<wink>


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Dec 15 03:00:42 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 20:00:42 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3:
 Outgoingmessagesstuck in qrunner/in folder
In-Reply-To: <20061214223252.GF2697@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
References: <20061214171831.8D8C37AE@mail.tuunq.com>
	<130C443D-D1F3-43B9-85B9-203BCC4656B3@cprp.ca>
	<p06240501c1a7726bc245@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061214223252.GF2697@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <p06240500c1a7b0d1a378@[10.0.1.11]>

At 5:32 PM -0500 12/14/06, Todd Zullinger wrote:

>  Apple does provide the source code for their mailman packages.  You
>  can browse it here:

Even if they have made the source code available for everything 
they've done with regards to Mailman (which includes all their 
proprietary management tools), this is not the same thing as 
contributing that code back to the Mailman project.

Likewise, webmin also includes a component for managing Mailman, and 
all their code is publicly available, but we don't say that webmin 
has contributed all their code back to the Mailman project.


Same any other group that takes our code and makes modifications to 
it -- even if they make all their source code publicly available, 
that's not the same thing as contributing it back to the Mailman 
project.

>  Compare that to cPanel where the best you find if you're not a
>  customer is a half-backed and outdated patch (which I was provided
>  only after persistent requests).

That is worse, yes.  But that's also not the point.

>  Disclaimer: I don't know anything about the Apple packages and the
>  only Apple product I own is an iPod. :)

Whereas I was an Apple fan from 1982, back in the original Apple ][ 
days, and before the introduction of the 16K language card, the Apple 
II+, the Apple IIe, the Apple //c, or any other more recent Apple 
product.  I've been a MacFanatic since December of 1983 when I saw an 
early prototype behind closed doors.  I've been a Mac owner since the 
day when I bought a Mac SE -- before the internal hard drive model 
was available.

I've got a long history with the company, but I'm not blind to things 
that they do poorly.  At least, not totally blind.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Dec 15 03:02:33 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 20:02:33 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow Processing/Delivery
In-Reply-To: <2308.66.92.236.243.1166144043.squirrel@swatmail.swarthmore.edu>
References: <4581B2BD.9050605@swarthmore.edu>
	<PC17602006121415412609589af5d798@msapiro>
	<2308.66.92.236.243.1166144043.squirrel@swatmail.swarthmore.edu>
Message-ID: <p06240501c1a7b26d0409@[10.0.1.11]>

At 7:54 PM -0500 12/14/06, jrotunno at swarthmore.edu wrote:

>  Anyone know what exactly these mean or how to handle it? Or point me in
>  the right direction of where to look to get this resolved since it's an
>  smtp problem?

The error "Connection unexpectedly closed" points to a problem within 
your MTA.  Depending on which MTA you use, there are some hints 
regarding performance tuning in the Mailman FAQ Wizard, but this is 
really an MTA-specific issue and you should use the books, web pages, 
mailing lists, etc... that are devoted to supporting that product.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec 15 03:04:19 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 18:04:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ask create list question
In-Reply-To: <007701c71fe7$9136e9b0$d401000a@fareast.local>
Message-ID: <PC17602006121418041901928fc3bb33@msapiro>

leowu at mail.fareast.com.tw wrote:
>
>Yes, I enter my password  in  the "List creator's (authentication)
>password:" box , and my password is only contaion  'us-ascii'
>characters!
>And I found something strangely. I use the command mode to create a list
>successful I can use command "list_lists" to see it  but
>when I use web ui to conform .. it shows "there are no this lists"
>Did I miss anything  to make this happen?


See the FAQs
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.017.htp>
and
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.062.htp)
and the others that they point to.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ptomblin at xcski.com  Fri Dec 15 02:36:21 2006
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 20:36:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using a different archiver
Message-ID: <20061215013621.GB31903@allhats.xcski.com>

If I switch to a different archiver (ie. not the bundled pipermail), is
there any way to restrict the archives to members only?

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
Where a calculator on the ENIAC is equipped with 18,000 vacuum tubes and weighs
30 tons, computers in the future may have only 1,000 vacuum tubes and weigh
only 1 1/2 tons.                               ---Popular Mechanics, March 1949

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec 15 03:28:45 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 18:28:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3:
	Outgoingmessagesstuck in qrunner/in folder
In-Reply-To: <130C443D-D1F3-43B9-85B9-203BCC4656B3@cprp.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612141828450989e240ecea@msapiro>

Pierre Igot wrote:
>
>Believe it or not, I did check the FAQ before submitting my request.
>
>Try searching for all keywords "message stuck qfiles/in" or simply
>for "qfiles" in the FAQ, for example. It doesn't return anything that
>would have helped in my case.


I believe you did check the FAQ, and further, I don't believe you did
anything wrong. If you feel we are picking on you, I apologize for my
part in that. We're really only picking on Apple.

I actually didn't mean to send the partial reply at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-December/055006.html>.
There was something in your reply at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-December/055011.html>
that annoyed me. I still can't put my finger on exactly what, but I
don't think my annoyance was warranted. Maybe I'm annoyed at Apple. I
started to reply to that post three times, and each time, I thought
better of it and canceled the message except the third time I
accidently hit send instead of cancel.

Then having sent that obviously incomplete reply, I followed up with
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-December/055007.html>

So that's my story, and again, I don't think you did anything wrong.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Dec 15 03:40:32 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 20:40:32 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3: Outgoing
 messagesstuck in qrunner/in folder
In-Reply-To: <3F10FCB6-8E67-4A63-87C7-86132D86016E@cprp.ca>
References: <PC176020061213153118093787e19c5b@msapiro>
	<3F10FCB6-8E67-4A63-87C7-86132D86016E@cprp.ca>
Message-ID: <p06240502c1a7bb1f0dcc@[10.0.1.11]>

At 10:59 PM -0400 12/13/06, Pierre Igot wrote:

>>  <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp>
>
>  I am aware of this page and checked it before sending my request for
>  help. The page didn't provide any information that addressed my
>  issue, as far as I could tell.

Okay, I split the MacOS X and MacOS X Server stuff into two separate 
FAQ entries.  1.21 now talks about using the Mailman-standard version 
of the software, while 1.29 now talks about the Apple-provided 
version of the software.

Please see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp> 
and 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.029.htp>, 
respectively.

If there are any further clarifications or other things you'd like to 
add to these subjects, please feel free to edit the FAQ Wizard entry 
itself, and/or discuss that subject on this list.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Dec 15 03:43:43 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 20:43:43 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using a different archiver
In-Reply-To: <20061215013621.GB31903@allhats.xcski.com>
References: <20061215013621.GB31903@allhats.xcski.com>
Message-ID: <p06240503c1a7bbde3a82@[10.0.1.11]>

At 8:36 PM -0500 12/14/06, Paul Tomblin wrote:

>  If I switch to a different archiver (ie. not the bundled pipermail), is
>  there any way to restrict the archives to members only?

That would be an issue for whatever alternative archiver that you 
choose to use.  I'm pretty sure that mhonarc can do this, but I don't 
know about others.

If you do choose to use a different archiver, you will probably want 
to configure Mailman to disable the use of pipermail and to instead 
archive either directly to an mbox-format file (and then let the 
third-party archiving tool pick that up), or to pipe the stuff 
directly from Mailman into the third-party archiving tool.


The documentation, the code, and the Defaults.py file should have 
some relevant information for people who want to go this route.  You 
can also find some discussion on this subject in the archives of this 
list.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From tmz at pobox.com  Fri Dec 15 04:20:53 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 22:20:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3:
	Outgoingmessagesstuck in qrunner/in folder
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c1a7b0d1a378@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <20061214171831.8D8C37AE@mail.tuunq.com>
	<130C443D-D1F3-43B9-85B9-203BCC4656B3@cprp.ca>
	<p06240501c1a7726bc245@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061214223252.GF2697@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<p06240500c1a7b0d1a378@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <20061215032053.GG2697@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> Even if they have made the source code available for everything 
> they've done with regards to Mailman (which includes all their 
> proprietary management tools), this is not the same thing as 
> contributing that code back to the Mailman project.

But what value would MacOSX specific integrations be to the Mailman
project?  I think that they'd likely be of limited value.  Just as
Debian or Red Hat specific changes are.  I know that John Dennis of
Red Hat contributed the changes Red Hat made to make mailman fit in
better with the FHS.  But even those changes are not accepted and they
are far more likely to be of general use than a Mac OSX service manage
script.  (I'm not arguing that they should have been, just using it as
an example.)

If a vendor make changes to the functionality that improve upon things
in Mailman, they yes, those changes would be great to see merged back
in and it's good to chide those that don't do so.  I am not aware that
those are the sort of changes anyone has said Apple's made.

ISTM that often when a vendor makes such changes, they make them
without the flexibility that would be needed to get them into the main
code base.  For example, cPanel has patched mailman to allow for lists
of the same name and a different domain name within a single mailman
install.  But they have done it in a rather hacky and inelegant way so
it's doubtful that even if they sent a patch to the developers list
that it'd get accepted.  It's only partially baked. :)

> Same any other group that takes our code and makes modifications to 
> it -- even if they make all their source code publicly available, 
> that's not the same thing as contributing it back to the Mailman 
> project.

To me it makes a difference what sort of modifications you're talking
about.  Most of the modifications in this thread and similar threads
deal with changes a vendor or distro make to integrate mailman into
their specific way of doing things.  And I think those changes aren't
likely to be useful to the project as a whole.  So that's the part
where I think it's unfair to criticize vendors and distros over.

Obviously, those changes do impact the ability of folks here to offer
help to those who ask for it.  It is a good thing to remind those
posters that they should check in with their vendor/distro to ensure
that the problems they're having aren't vendor/distro specific.  This
is somewhat akin to the need to ask a poster where they installed
mailman before anyone here can say "run this" or "edit that."

> Whereas I was an Apple fan from 1982, back in the original Apple ][ 
> days, and before the introduction of the 16K language card, the Apple 
> II+, the Apple IIe, the Apple //c, or any other more recent Apple 
> product.  I've been a MacFanatic since December of 1983 when I saw an 
> early prototype behind closed doors.  I've been a Mac owner since the 
> day when I bought a Mac SE -- before the internal hard drive model 
> was available.

I certainly won't argue that you've got me handily beat in terms of
experience and breadth of exposure to various systems.  :-)

My point mainly is that it sometimes comes across that vendors/distros
who install mailman and add to or change it to integrate it into their
system gets painted as doing something wrong.  I don't think that's
the intent, but I felt it worth mentioning and pointing to the Apple
code.  For anyone interested in checking specifically what Apple has
changed about the Mailman code, it's there.

Ideally a few Apple users would hang out on this list and could help
to guide those who are asking for assistance and using the Apple
installed Mailman.  In that way, we'd all learn a little more about
how to solve people's problems with Mailman.

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom
they oppress.
    -- Frederick Douglass

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 542 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20061214/9e9f3be7/attachment.pgp 

From brad at shub-internet.org  Fri Dec 15 06:22:20 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 23:22:20 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3:
 Outgoingmessagesstuck in qrunner/in folder
In-Reply-To: <20061215032053.GG2697@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
References: <20061214171831.8D8C37AE@mail.tuunq.com>
	<130C443D-D1F3-43B9-85B9-203BCC4656B3@cprp.ca>
	<p06240501c1a7726bc245@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061214223252.GF2697@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<p06240500c1a7b0d1a378@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061215032053.GG2697@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <p06240505c1a7dd180433@[10.0.1.11]>

At 10:20 PM -0500 12/14/06, Todd Zullinger wrote:

>  But what value would MacOSX specific integrations be to the Mailman
>  project?

Well, if they fed their changes back to us, that would allow us to 
incorporate that into future versions of the software, which would 
then be trivially easy for the vendor to upgrade to.  Apple would no 
longer have to maintain their own proprietary modified version.

So, yes -- I think that there is a very strong benefit to the vendor, 
if they contribute their code back to the project.

I think there is also a very strong benefit to the user community 
(and the vendor), because that would allow us to better support the 
software on their boxes.

>                                          I know that John Dennis of
>  Red Hat contributed the changes Red Hat made to make mailman fit in
>  better with the FHS.  But even those changes are not accepted and they
>  are far more likely to be of general use than a Mac OSX service manage
>  script.  (I'm not arguing that they should have been, just using it as
>  an example.)

If there are things that need to be done to get Mailman to fit better 
into the FHS, and they aren't just the minimum changes hacked in but 
are appropriately and fully integrated into the software, I see no 
reason who those contributions would not be warmly welcomed.

But yes, if you just hack crap in, that's not likely to be accepted. 
I'm not saying that this is what John did -- I have no knowledge of 
his changes, one way or the other.  I'm just saying that, in general, 
hackish type changes are much less likely to be accepted than ones 
where the added functionality is fully and properly integrated into 
the code.

Unfortunately, a lot of the changes most people submit are of the 
hackish variety.

>  ISTM that often when a vendor makes such changes, they make them
>  without the flexibility that would be needed to get them into the main
>  code base.

Right, the hackish changes I was talking about.

>  To me it makes a difference what sort of modifications you're talking
>  about.  Most of the modifications in this thread and similar threads
>  deal with changes a vendor or distro make to integrate mailman into
>  their specific way of doing things.  And I think those changes aren't
>  likely to be useful to the project as a whole.  So that's the part
>  where I think it's unfair to criticize vendors and distros over.

Actually, I think it's just as valuable for a vendor to contribute 
those changes back to us as ones that actually have to do with core 
functionality.

This way, when someone comes to us with a problem on platform Y, we 
can look into the code and see where platform Y puts things, and we 
can give them a straight answer as to where the log files are, where 
the commands are, etc....  Otherwise, our only option is to say that 
the Mailman-standard location for a specific file is mumblefrotz, and 
that it's up to the questioner to figure out what this means for 
their platform.

>  My point mainly is that it sometimes comes across that vendors/distros
>  who install mailman and add to or change it to integrate it into their
>  system gets painted as doing something wrong.

When they do that without contributing back to us whatever changes 
they've made to the Mailman code or scripts, the locations of files, 
etc... then I think that they have done something wrong.  Some could 
claim that they are in violation of the GNU copyleft, but at the very 
least I think that they are guilty of having failed to give adequate 
support back to the community from whom they are taking a given 
system.

>  Ideally a few Apple users would hang out on this list and could help
>  to guide those who are asking for assistance and using the Apple
>  installed Mailman.  In that way, we'd all learn a little more about
>  how to solve people's problems with Mailman.

Or maybe Apple could actually provide some actual support to their 
customers who've paid real money to get MacOS X Server.

I think your suggestion is more likely, because there are a couple of 
people in this situation who have done at least some of what you have 
suggested.  I just don't think that it's fair to put on their 
shoulders the whole sum total of providing support for all MacOS X 
Server users who need help with the Apple-provided version of Mailman 
and who cannot get Apple to give them the support that they deserve.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From tmz at pobox.com  Fri Dec 15 07:24:19 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 01:24:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3:
	Outgoingmessagesstuck in qrunner/in folder
In-Reply-To: <p06240505c1a7dd180433@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <20061214171831.8D8C37AE@mail.tuunq.com>
	<130C443D-D1F3-43B9-85B9-203BCC4656B3@cprp.ca>
	<p06240501c1a7726bc245@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061214223252.GF2697@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<p06240500c1a7b0d1a378@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061215032053.GG2697@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<p06240505c1a7dd180433@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <20061215062419.GH2697@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 10:20 PM -0500 12/14/06, Todd Zullinger wrote:
> 
>>  But what value would MacOSX specific integrations be to the
>>  Mailman project?
> 
> Well, if they fed their changes back to us, that would allow us to
> incorporate that into future versions of the software, which would
> then be trivially easy for the vendor to upgrade to.  Apple would no
> longer have to maintain their own proprietary modified version.

It seems like that'd get to be a lot of work maintaining vendor
specific integrations.

> So, yes -- I think that there is a very strong benefit to the
> vendor, if they contribute their code back to the project.

Code is one thing, vendor specific integration is another.

> If there are things that need to be done to get Mailman to fit
> better into the FHS, and they aren't just the minimum changes hacked
> in but are appropriately and fully integrated into the software, I
> see no reason who those contributions would not be warmly welcomed.

They're part of the design goals for MM3.  I'm not sure what the
status is for 2.2 and I wasn't able to find any hits for FHS on
wiki.list.org, but I may very well be doing something completely wrong
there. :)

I don't think John's changes were of the hacked in variety, but the
changes are enough that they haven't been integrated into the current
2.1 branch, though the patch was submitted in 10/2004.  I think it's
simply a case where those changes were very important to Red Hat (in
that FHS compliance helped with other distro issues like integrating
SELinux access controls) but they weren't important enough to the
broader community of Mailman contributors to warrant making the
changes in the 2.1 branch.

Nothing wrong with that.  It's why open source is so nice.  I have the
choice to find vendors and projects that share more of my values than
others may.  If FHS compliance is really important to you, you'll like
the Red Hat mailman packages.  If you prefer simplicity and less
scattering of your files, the stock mailman install will suit you
better.

John's message and patch are in the mailman-developers archives here:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers at python.org/msg08110.html

> Unfortunately, a lot of the changes most people submit are of the 
> hackish variety.

That sounds like a good reason not to ache for too many more to me,
especially if they're just vendor specific tweaks. ;)

>>  To me it makes a difference what sort of modifications you're
>>  talking about.  Most of the modifications in this thread and
>>  similar threads deal with changes a vendor or distro make to
>>  integrate mailman into their specific way of doing things.  And I
>>  think those changes aren't likely to be useful to the project as a
>>  whole.  So that's the part where I think it's unfair to criticize
>>  vendors and distros over.
> 
> Actually, I think it's just as valuable for a vendor to contribute
> those changes back to us as ones that actually have to do with core
> functionality.
> 
> This way, when someone comes to us with a problem on platform Y, we
> can look into the code and see where platform Y puts things, and we
> can give them a straight answer as to where the log files are, where
> the commands are, etc....  Otherwise, our only option is to say that
> the Mailman-standard location for a specific file is mumblefrotz,
> and that it's up to the questioner to figure out what this means for
> their platform.

Well, many of the changes that are made to the way mailman is
installed aren't really in a format that a vendor or a distro can send
to the Mailman project as a patch.  These changes may be made in an
rpm specfile or a debian control file or countless other distro and
vendor specific methods.  Being inundated with all of that doesn't
help to support users better, IMO.

What helps is having people on the lists that know something about the
various distro and vendor packages that can point out where something
is to a new poster.  Having used Red Hat systems for a number of
years, I'll sometimes chime in when someone posts and says they have
mailman-2.1.5-35 on Fedora or something like that, recognizing that
they've got mailman installed via rpm.  To help someone find out where
mailman's parts are installed requires knowing a little about the
package management system - unless mailman started shipping with a
script in a standard path that you could point to and say, run
"mailman_where_are_my_parts" or something. :)

>>  My point mainly is that it sometimes comes across that vendors/distros
>>  who install mailman and add to or change it to integrate it into their
>>  system gets painted as doing something wrong.
> 
> When they do that without contributing back to us whatever changes 
> they've made to the Mailman code or scripts, the locations of files, 
> etc... then I think that they have done something wrong.

That's a much broader view of the requirements of the GPL than I
subscribe to.  Changing install paths should be easy to do via
configure.  And if it's not and someone has to change the code to
alter the paths, that's something that ought to be fixed in the
mailman configure scripts (something akin to the FHS patch).

Changing the code in other ways is also allowed as long as those whom
they ship the code to have the right to the source.  That's the letter
of the license as I understand it.  And I agree with you that I don't
much care for that as it does skirt the spirit of the license.  I
don't think that's the category that most vendor tweaks fall into
though.  They are likely in the former.

>>  Ideally a few Apple users would hang out on this list and could help
>>  to guide those who are asking for assistance and using the Apple
>>  installed Mailman.  In that way, we'd all learn a little more about
>>  how to solve people's problems with Mailman.
> 
> Or maybe Apple could actually provide some actual support to their 
> customers who've paid real money to get MacOS X Server.

Well, yeah.  That'd be even better.  But since I don't give any money
to Apple, I'm in no position to demand that they do anything for their
customers.  There's nothing wrong with making customers aware that
they should expect support if they've paid for it, of course.

But if someone posts here and others can help them out, all the better
as the knowledge goes into the list archives and FAQ.

> I think your suggestion is more likely, because there are a couple
> of people in this situation who have done at least some of what you
> have suggested.  I just don't think that it's fair to put on their
> shoulders the whole sum total of providing support for all MacOS X
> Server users who need help with the Apple-provided version of
> Mailman and who cannot get Apple to give them the support that they
> deserve.

I can't speak for Apple, but my experience using Red Hat and Fedora
has been very good.  I've found the community forums quite helpful at
solving many problems.  The users that get help in that way often
never end up here, so we don't see how helpful the vendor/distro
channel may be.

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
The worth of a state, in the long run, is the worth of the individuals
composing it.
    -- John Stuart Mill

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 542 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20061215/98ad4377/attachment-0001.pgp 

From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Dec 15 09:24:11 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 17:24:11 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server
	10.3:	Outgoingmessagesstuck in qrunner/in folder
In-Reply-To: <20061215062419.GH2697@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
References: <20061214171831.8D8C37AE@mail.tuunq.com>
	<130C443D-D1F3-43B9-85B9-203BCC4656B3@cprp.ca>
	<p06240501c1a7726bc245@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061214223252.GF2697@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<p06240500c1a7b0d1a378@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061215032053.GG2697@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<p06240505c1a7dd180433@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061215062419.GH2697@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <87y7p9r2hg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Todd Zullinger writes:

 > Nothing wrong with that.  It's why open source is so nice.  I have the
 > choice to find vendors and projects that share more of my values than
 > others may.  If FHS compliance is really important to you, you'll like
 > the Red Hat mailman packages.

The problem is that most of the people who get referred to the "not
our job, mon" FAQs chose Red Hat or Apple not for FHS compliance, but
for turnkey installation convenience and system integration.  If that
fails, it's the vendor's responsibility, and the vendor is in the best
position to answer questions.

I think it's important to insist on that point.

From earle at isolar.dyndns.org  Fri Dec 15 10:04:17 2006
From: earle at isolar.dyndns.org (Greg Earle)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 01:04:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing outside MHonArc'ed mailing list archives
	via Pipermail?
Message-ID: <4E0AA8F7-4A4C-4A0D-83C7-43CB823C361A@isolar.dyndns.org>

I'm sure this is a FAQ someplace but couldn't find anything relevant.

I've got an existing Mailman 2.1.9/Pipermail setup with the ht://Dig
integration set up, and several mailing lists using it - all with their
own existing archives using the built-in Pipermail.

I've been asked to take over some mailing lists that are currently
being hosted elsewhere.  I can set up the lists easily enough but
they'd also like me to integrate their archives for these lists as well,
and it turns out they used MHonArc for theirs.  They don't have any
mbox files or anything like that - the archives I was provided are
all per-list directories with all the messages in HTML format already
(so I can't gen a "plain text"/Gzip'ed archive, at the very least),
along with any associated attachments (Word docs as doc*.doc, or
PowerPoint files as ppt*.ppt) and, last but not least, two index files,
"maillist.html" and "threads.html".

I'd like to be able to set up trees for these alongside my existing
Mailman-generated archives, and replace the "maillist.html" and
"threads.html" files with Pipermail-generated versions.  I was
secretly hoping it might be as simple as feeding the directory
containing the *.html files to "Archiver" or "HyperArch" or
"pipermail" - something in /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver -
but it doesn't seem quite so obvious to me at first glance.

Has anyone trodden down this path before, and is there a simple
way to do this sort of thing?  (Preserving the .doc and .ppt
attachments associations would be a real bonus treat, too)

Thanks in advance,

	- Greg



From neuss at mathematik.uni-karlsruhe.de  Fri Dec 15 13:56:55 2006
From: neuss at mathematik.uni-karlsruhe.de (Nicolas Neuss)
Date: 15 Dec 2006 13:56:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Debian/Exim4/Mailman
Message-ID: <87lkl948rs.fsf@ma-patru.mathematik.uni-karlsruhe.de>

Hello,

I am stuck with the following strange problem.  I am using Debian/testing
and Exim4.  Now I want to use Mailman for sending preprint announcements of
our institute.  Using "apt-get install" was unfortunately not sufficient,
so I followed the instructions in "README.Debian.Exim4" doing some further
Exim4 adaptions.  Interestingly, now a mailing list "testit" does work
(everything: subscribing, sending messages, etc), while other names are not
recognized at all:

root at ma-slave:~# exim4 -bt testit
R: system_aliases for testit at ruprecht.mathematik.uni-karlsruhe.de
testit at ruprecht.mathematik.uni-karlsruhe.de
  router = mailman_router, transport = mailman_transport
root at ma-slave:~# exim4 -bt mylist
R: system_aliases for mylist at ruprecht.mathematik.uni-karlsruhe.de
mylist at ruprecht.mathematik.uni-karlsruhe.de is undeliverable:
  Unrouteable address

Has anyone an idea what is going on here?

I have a distributed Exim4-config file as described in the above README.
Especially, I have the following ocnfig parts

--- 970_local_mailman ----------------------------------------------------
mailman_transport:
    driver = pipe
    command = MAILMAN_WRAP \
              '${if def:local_part_suffix \
                    {${sg{$local_part_suffix}{-(\\w+)(\\+.*)?}{\$1}}} \
                    {post}}' \
              $local_part
    current_directory = MAILMAN_HOME
    home_directory = MAILMAN_HOME
    user = MAILMAN_USER
    group = MAILMAN_GROUP
    freeze_exec_fail = true
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

and

--- 40_local_mailman ------------------------------------------------------
mailman_workaround:
  domains = +local_domains
  require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$local_part/config.pck
  driver = accept
  local_parts = mailman
  local_part_suffix_optional
  local_part_suffix = -bounces : -bounces+* : \
           -confirm+* : -join : -leave : \
           -subscribe : -unsubscribe : \
           -owner : -request : -admin
  transport = mailman_transport
  group = MAILMAN_GROUP

# Mailman lists
mailman_router:
  domains = +local_domains
  condition = ${lookup{$local_part@$domain}lsearch{MAILMAN_HOME/data/virtual-mailman}{1}{0}}
  require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$local_part/config.pck
  driver = accept
  local_part_suffix_optional
  local_part_suffix = -bounces : -bounces+* : \
                      -confirm+* : -join : -leave : \
                      -owner : -request : -admin
  transport = mailman_transport
  group = MAILMAN_GROUP
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Thanks for your help,

Nicolas Neuss

From atarallo at acm.org  Fri Dec 15 14:48:26 2006
From: atarallo at acm.org (Andres Tarallo)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 10:48:26 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail delivery notification
Message-ID: <3fdbc0030612150548m217c2636na16723e960c1bb8c@mail.gmail.com>

We're deploying mailman to deliver information to a lot of people (1200
suscribers). The suscribers can't post to the list.

We need to receive a notification that the suscribers had received the mail.
We where thinking in adding a header that makes the mail client return an
automatic answer.

Any help will be appreciated

Andres

From atarallo at acm.org  Fri Dec 15 14:52:47 2006
From: atarallo at acm.org (Andres Tarallo)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 10:52:47 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Discarding recipiens by domain
Message-ID: <3fdbc0030612150552r186998c2m9390c1bfde374ab4@mail.gmail.com>

We want to discard posting mail users from certain domains. And we can't
achieve that using regular expressions. As far as we?ve read on the
documentation this is supposed to be posible, but we can?t find the way.

Thanks in advance

From igot at cprp.ca  Fri Dec 15 13:53:45 2006
From: igot at cprp.ca (Pierre Igot)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 08:53:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3: Outgoing
	messagesstuck in qrunner/in folder
In-Reply-To: <p06240502c1a7bb1f0dcc@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <PC176020061213153118093787e19c5b@msapiro>
	<3F10FCB6-8E67-4A63-87C7-86132D86016E@cprp.ca>
	<p06240502c1a7bb1f0dcc@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <3B65E2E1-CC0F-40F5-87F1-708CD5FF0A1A@cprp.ca>


On 06-12-14, at 22:40, Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 10:59 PM -0400 12/13/06, Pierre Igot wrote:
>
>>>  <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
>>> req=show&file=faq01.021.htp>
>>
>>  I am aware of this page and checked it before sending my request for
>>  help. The page didn't provide any information that addressed my
>>  issue, as far as I could tell.
>
> Okay, I split the MacOS X and MacOS X Server stuff into two  
> separate FAQ entries.  1.21 now talks about using the Mailman- 
> standard version of the software, while 1.29 now talks about the  
> Apple-provided version of the software.
>
> Please see <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
> req=show&file=faq01.021.htp> and <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/ 
> faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.029.htp>, respectively.
>
> If there are any further clarifications or other things you'd like  
> to add to these subjects, please feel free to edit the FAQ Wizard  
> entry itself, and/or discuss that subject on this list.

IMPORTANT: Please note that the correct spelling for Mac OS X and Mac  
OS X Server is with a space between the "Mac" and the "OS".

I think part of the problem here stems from the very name of this  
list. It's called "mailman-users." I am a "mailman user." So I feel  
that this is the right list for me to get help about using Mailman.  
There is nothing in the list description that warns users of non- 
standard Mailman distributions away from the list. On the contrary,  
this description puts the emphasis on users vs. developers. So  
naturally "mailman users" such as myself feel that it's the natural  
place to go and ask questions:

---
This mailing list is for users and other parties interested in the  
Mailman mailing list management system. There is a separate mailing  
list for people interested in discussion about development of the  
system - mailman-developers.
---
(http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users]

That said, I am in full agreement that the FAQ needs to be read  
first, and your updates are important--as long as you spell "Mac OS  
X" properly. Otherwise, Mac OS X users might not even find the  
relevant section :).

Pierre


--
Pierre Igot, administrateur des syst?mes / Systems Administrator
www.cprp.ca
902-837-7391


From steele at agora-net.com  Fri Dec 15 15:15:19 2006
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 09:15:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Case-Sensitivity Problem?
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c1a770ed68d4@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <PC1760200612131201500000855b9a52@msapiro>
	<45817D37.9010100@agora-net.com>
	<p06240500c1a770ed68d4@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <4582ADF7.3040903@agora-net.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 11:35 AM -0500 12/14/06, Ryan Steele wrote:
>
>>  Yes, I realize this.  But, there's no reason for the log to indicate
>>  that <cef.43ab224.32b16b26 at aol.com>
>>  was being considered as an indiscernable address.
>
> That's not quite what happened.  Let's go back to an earlier message, 
> where you quoted:
>
>>  And here is a message from Mailman's bounce log:
>>
>>>  Dec 13 09:42:38 2006 (2202) bounce message w/no discernable addresses:
>>>  <cef.43ab224.32b16b26 at aol.com>
>>>  Dec 13 09:42:38 2006 (2202) forwarding unrecognized, message-id:
>>>  <cef.43ab224.32b16b26 at aol.com>
>
> In the case of the first line, it's telling you that some sort of 
> message was received to the -bounces address for the list, but it's 
> not something that Mailman recognized as a bounce that it could 
> parse.  But it did identify the message in question, although it 
> didn't specifically use the term "message-id".
>
> In the second line, it did explicitly use the term "message-id", but 
> it's still talking about the same message with the same problem, only 
> now it's telling you that it's forwarding this message to a human.
>
Ah, okay.  I guess the fact that it first identified the message-id 
implicitly and then explicitly lead me to believe it thought that, in 
the case of the first line, it was identifying the indiscernible 
address.  Thank you very much for clarifying.
>
>>                                                     It ought to have 
>> been
>>  able to extrapolate the real AOL address of the sender, don't you 
>> think?
>
> Whatever happened, I'm sure that Mailman would have been able to 
> determine who the claimed sender of the message was.  The problem was 
> that, for some reason, it was delivered to the -bounces address for 
> the list (as opposed to some other address), and yet it was not 
> formatted like any bounce that Mailman knows how to recognize.
>
> The fault here almost certainly is not with AOL per se, nor with 
> Mailman.  The fault lies in however a message that was intended to be 
> posted to the list was instead somehow delivered to the -bounces 
> address, and then dealing with the fallout from that situation.
>
I appreciate your thorough response.  Thank you for your input!

Ryan

-- 
Ryan Steele                         
Systems Administrator               steele at agora-net.com
AgoraNet, Inc.                      (302) 224-2475
314 E. Main Street, Suite 1         (302) 224-2552 (fax)
Newark, DE 19711                    http://www.agora-net.com


From neuss at mathematik.uni-karlsruhe.de  Fri Dec 15 15:20:00 2006
From: neuss at mathematik.uni-karlsruhe.de (Nicolas Neuss)
Date: 15 Dec 2006 15:20:00 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Debian/Exim4/Mailman
In-Reply-To: <87lkl948rs.fsf@ma-patru.mathematik.uni-karlsruhe.de>
References: <87lkl948rs.fsf@ma-patru.mathematik.uni-karlsruhe.de>
Message-ID: <87d56l44xb.fsf@ma-patru.mathematik.uni-karlsruhe.de>

Hello,

I have now found the problem: the file virtual-mailman was not updated
correctly (I don't know why) when creating a new list.  Only the lines for
the "testit" mailing list were in this file (maybe from earlier trials?).
Putting there the lines for recognizing "mylist" by hand made everything
work.

Thanks, Nicolas

Nicolas Neuss <neuss at mathematik.uni-karlsruhe.de> writes:

> Hello,
> 
> I am stuck with the following strange problem.  I am using Debian/testing
> and Exim4.  Now I want to use Mailman for sending preprint announcements of
> our institute.  Using "apt-get install" was unfortunately not sufficient,
> so I followed the instructions in "README.Debian.Exim4" doing some further
> Exim4 adaptions.  Interestingly, now a mailing list "testit" does work
> (everything: subscribing, sending messages, etc), while other names are not
> recognized at all:
> 
> root at ma-slave:~# exim4 -bt testit
> R: system_aliases for testit at ruprecht.mathematik.uni-karlsruhe.de
> testit at ruprecht.mathematik.uni-karlsruhe.de
>   router = mailman_router, transport = mailman_transport
> root at ma-slave:~# exim4 -bt mylist
> R: system_aliases for mylist at ruprecht.mathematik.uni-karlsruhe.de
> mylist at ruprecht.mathematik.uni-karlsruhe.de is undeliverable:
>   Unrouteable address
> 
> Has anyone an idea what is going on here?
> 
> I have a distributed Exim4-config file as described in the above README.
> Especially, I have the following ocnfig parts
> 
> --- 970_local_mailman ----------------------------------------------------
> mailman_transport:
>     driver = pipe
>     command = MAILMAN_WRAP \
>               '${if def:local_part_suffix \
>                     {${sg{$local_part_suffix}{-(\\w+)(\\+.*)?}{\$1}}} \
>                     {post}}' \
>               $local_part
>     current_directory = MAILMAN_HOME
>     home_directory = MAILMAN_HOME
>     user = MAILMAN_USER
>     group = MAILMAN_GROUP
>     freeze_exec_fail = true
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> and
> 
> --- 40_local_mailman ------------------------------------------------------
> mailman_workaround:
>   domains = +local_domains
>   require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$local_part/config.pck
>   driver = accept
>   local_parts = mailman
>   local_part_suffix_optional
>   local_part_suffix = -bounces : -bounces+* : \
>            -confirm+* : -join : -leave : \
>            -subscribe : -unsubscribe : \
>            -owner : -request : -admin
>   transport = mailman_transport
>   group = MAILMAN_GROUP
> 
> # Mailman lists
> mailman_router:
>   domains = +local_domains
>   condition = ${lookup{$local_part@$domain}lsearch{MAILMAN_HOME/data/virtual-mailman}{1}{0}}
>   require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$local_part/config.pck
>   driver = accept
>   local_part_suffix_optional
>   local_part_suffix = -bounces : -bounces+* : \
>                       -confirm+* : -join : -leave : \
>                       -owner : -request : -admin
>   transport = mailman_transport
>   group = MAILMAN_GROUP
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> Thanks for your help,
> 
> Nicolas Neuss


From tmz at pobox.com  Fri Dec 15 15:26:03 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 09:26:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3:
	Outgoingmessagesstuck in qrunner/in folder
In-Reply-To: <87y7p9r2hg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <20061214171831.8D8C37AE@mail.tuunq.com>
	<130C443D-D1F3-43B9-85B9-203BCC4656B3@cprp.ca>
	<p06240501c1a7726bc245@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061214223252.GF2697@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<p06240500c1a7b0d1a378@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061215032053.GG2697@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<p06240505c1a7dd180433@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061215062419.GH2697@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<87y7p9r2hg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20061215142603.GI2697@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> Todd Zullinger writes:
> 
> > Nothing wrong with that.  It's why open source is so nice.  I have
> > the choice to find vendors and projects that share more of my
> > values than others may.  If FHS compliance is really important to
> > you, you'll like the Red Hat mailman packages.
> 
> The problem is that most of the people who get referred to the "not
> our job, mon" FAQs chose Red Hat or Apple not for FHS compliance,
> but for turnkey installation convenience and system integration.

True.  Many times those folks are in over their head trying to
configure an MTA, web server, and tuning mailman.  They'd probably be
better off reading up on their vendors package management system so
that when someone here asked where the init script was, they could
find it.  :)

> If that fails, it's the vendor's responsibility, and the vendor is
> in the best position to answer questions.
> 
> I think it's important to insist on that point.

But to what extent?  That's the point I was trying to get at in my
original reply.  The extreme is that there should be a FAQ and maybe
even a section in the list welcome that says, "Use anything but
mailman built from source?  Don't ask questions here, ask your
vendor."  I don't believe that anyone here is in favor of that.

I agree that if someone comes here with questions that are obviously
very dependent on some customization that their vendor has made that
they should be directed to check with the vendor.  (Same goes for
users who need more basic help learning to use their OS of choice.)
But many, if not most, questions from users who are using a Red Hat or
even Apple package don't fall into that category, IMO.

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
I got stopped by a cop the other day.  He said, "Why'd you run that
stop sign?"  I said, "Because I don't believe everything I read."
    -- Stephen Wright

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 542 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20061215/d8dcb636/attachment.pgp 

From steele at agora-net.com  Fri Dec 15 15:37:00 2006
From: steele at agora-net.com (Ryan Steele)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 09:37:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Concerning Build-time options
Message-ID: <4582B30C.4090602@agora-net.com>

Thanks to Mark, Brad, and the rest who have lent their input.  I have 
one more question though, hopefully with an easy answer I'm simply not 
seeing.

I've got a Mailman installation that was built on box A.  Box A's 
default domain is the .priv domain, but that domain is only visible to 
the internal network.  So, box A's internal domain is .priv to all the 
internal boxes; to the external boxes, it's A.foo.com.  However, Mailman 
seems to be sending out messages to list moderators with regard to new 
member requests with A.priv as the sending hostname/domain.  As a 
result, the return address is mailman-bounces at A.priv (instead of 
mailman-bounces at lists.foo.com)  Needless to say, when other mail servers 
test for the existence of an MX record for the .priv domain, it doesn't 
exist.

I've double-checked, using the config_list utility, that host_name was 
correct, and it is...I've got "host_name = lists.foo.com".  Is there 
some other option I can set within Mailman to change the default 
domain?  Or is this something I need to fix at the MTA level?  All other 
mail (e.g., mail not being sent out by Mailman) seems to go out with the 
correct domain name, but I'm not discounting anything at this point.  
Thanks in advance for any input/advice.

Best Regards,
Ryan

-- 
Ryan Steele                         
Systems Administrator               steele at agora-net.com
AgoraNet, Inc.                      (302) 224-2475
314 E. Main Street, Suite 1         (302) 224-2552 (fax)
Newark, DE 19711                    http://www.agora-net.com


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec 15 19:28:03 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 10:28:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Debian/Exim4/Mailman
In-Reply-To: <87d56l44xb.fsf@ma-patru.mathematik.uni-karlsruhe.de>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612151028030843b96eb1ae@msapiro>

Nicolas Neuss wrote:
>
>I have now found the problem: the file virtual-mailman was not updated
>correctly (I don't know why) when creating a new list.  Only the lines for
>the "testit" mailing list were in this file (maybe from earlier trials?).
>Putting there the lines for recognizing "mylist" by hand made everything
>work.


The data/virtual-mailman file is only updated by Mailman if you have

MTA = 'Postfix'

and have specified

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['example.com', ...]

in mm_cfg.py. It is intended only for Postfix, not Exim.

The issue is your use of

>>   condition = ${lookup{$local_part@$domain}lsearch{MAILMAN_HOME/data/virtual-mailman}{1}{0}}

in your mailman router in Exim.  Presumably this comes from
"README.Debian.Exim4", but this README apparently comes from Debian.
It doesn't come from the Mailman project.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.019.htp>
for our recommendations.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec 15 19:41:51 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 10:41:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail delivery notification
In-Reply-To: <3fdbc0030612150548m217c2636na16723e960c1bb8c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612151041510390f5707019@msapiro>

Andres Tarallo wrote:
>
>We need to receive a notification that the suscribers had received the mail.
>We where thinking in adding a header that makes the mail client return an
>automatic answer.


Don't do it. It is totally unreliable, and only serves to annoy people.

No matter what Header(s) you use, some MUAs won't recognize it, and
those that do generally offer the user the option of not returning the
receipt.

Many people who see that you've asked for a receipt for mailing list
mail will be annoyed by the fact.

The best you can do is monitor bounces from your list mailings. Your
outgoing MTA will try to deliver all the mail. It will return bounces
for the mail which isn't accepted by the receiving MTA. Receiving
MTA's that accept the mail may later return a bounce, may silently
discard the mail or may deliver it to the recipients mailbox where it
may or may not be read.

Thus, you know what you sent and you know what bounced. Of the rest,
you can never be sure no matter what you do.

If you really need confirmation, ask the recipient to reply. This is
better than anything else you can do.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From anne.ramey at ncmail.net  Fri Dec 15 19:44:45 2006
From: anne.ramey at ncmail.net (Anne Ramey)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 13:44:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing members with non-standard characters
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061212115301073443afe93f@msapiro>
References: <PC176020061212115301073443afe93f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4582ED1D.5090304@ncmail.net>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Anne Ramey wrote:
>   
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>     
>>> If the bad addresses don't appear in list_members (I don't know why
>>> they wouldn't, but maybe they just appear with the control characters
>>> that you don't see and thus look OK) you can do
>>>
>>>   bin/list_members listname | bin/synch_members -f - -n listname
>>>   
>>>       
>> This says:
>> ./list_members listname | ./sync_members -f - -n listname
>> Dry run mode
>> Invalid :  brianv at ncccs.cc.nc.us
>> You must fix the preceding invalid addresses first.
>> So I guess no luck there.
>>     
>
> So the address does appear in the list_members output.
>
> Try this one
>
>   bin/list_members -i listname | bin/remove_members -f - -n listname
>
> If that doesn't work, see <http://veenet.value.net/~msapiro/scripts/>
> or <http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/> for a link to an
> experimental withlist script that should do it.
>
>   
Miracle of miracles, this appears to have worked.  Thank you so much.

Anne

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec 15 19:46:46 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 10:46:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Discarding recipiens by domain
In-Reply-To: <3fdbc0030612150552r186998c2m9390c1bfde374ab4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612151046460843f57071d9@msapiro>

Andres Tarallo wrote:

>We want to discard posting mail users from certain domains. And we can't
>achieve that using regular expressions. As far as we've read on the
>documentation this is supposed to be posible, but we can't find the way.


In Privacy options...->Sender filters->discard_these_nonmembers, put
regexps such as

  ^.*example\.com$

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Dec 15 20:05:04 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 11:05:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Concerning Build-time options
In-Reply-To: <4582B30C.4090602@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612151105040015f5706e73@msapiro>

Ryan Steele wrote:
>
>I've got a Mailman installation that was built on box A.  Box A's 
>default domain is the .priv domain, but that domain is only visible to 
>the internal network.  So, box A's internal domain is .priv to all the 
>internal boxes; to the external boxes, it's A.foo.com.


This can cause confusion about Mailman's add_virtualhost() stuff, but I
don't think that is the issue here. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.062.htp>
and other FAQs it points to for a discussion of these issues, but
that's not your immediate problem.


>I've double-checked, using the config_list utility, that host_name was 
>correct, and it is...I've got "host_name = lists.foo.com".


The visible list attribute host_name is the domain that mailman uses
for all list email addresses.


>Is there 
>some other option I can set within Mailman to change the default 
>domain?  Or is this something I need to fix at the MTA level?  All other 
>mail (e.g., mail not being sent out by Mailman) seems to go out with the 
>correct domain name, but I'm not discounting anything at this point.  


The inconsistency between Mailman mail and other mail is puzzling. Do
both paths send through the same initial MTA?

In any case, if the list's host_name is correct, I don't think it's
Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brcisna at eazylivin.net  Fri Dec 15 22:33:50 2006
From: brcisna at eazylivin.net (Barry Cisna)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 15:33:50 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] users have to refresh browser to see new messages
Message-ID: <49699.127.0.0.1.1166218430.squirrel@server1>

Hello ALL,

I've googled for this but cant find anything in regards to this issue.
After new posts are shown on our Archives at school by secretaries,most
users webbrowsers do not detect newly added messages to the list archives
until they do an F5 to refresh their webbrowser. I m sure there is a
setting in mailman to automagically do this behind the scenes? I cant seem
to find ,were at,though.
Hence most people/teachers "think" the posts are appearing a day or two
late?:(... I dont really care to go around and change the setting in IE to
"refresh" every time at each website:(...

Any ideas appreciated.
BTW: They are mostly XP boxes with some using Firefox as well.

Thanks,

Barry

From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Fri Dec 15 22:48:32 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 13:48:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] users have to refresh browser to see new
 messages
In-Reply-To: <49699.127.0.0.1.1166218430.squirrel@server1>
References: <49699.127.0.0.1.1166218430.squirrel@server1>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20061215134526.065db330@crimson-dragon.com>

Barry Cisna wrote:
>Hello ALL,
>
>I've googled for this but cant find anything in regards to this issue.
>After new posts are shown on our Archives at school by secretaries,most
>users webbrowsers do not detect newly added messages to the list archives
>until they do an F5 to refresh their webbrowser. I m sure there is a
>setting in mailman to automagically do this behind the scenes? I cant seem
>to find ,were at,though.
>Hence most people/teachers "think" the posts are appearing a day or two
>late?:(... I dont really care to go around and change the setting in IE to
>"refresh" every time at each website:(...
>
>Any ideas appreciated.
>BTW: They are mostly XP boxes with some using Firefox as well.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Nope, mailman has absolutely nothing to do with that.

That's all web browser cache settings.

What you could do to help alleviate the issue is to change the 
archive index page HTML template to add a Page Expires Meta tag with 
a date in the past that would force the browser to do a fetch each 
time the page is loaded.

The only other option is to get all of the users to change the cache 
settings on their browser and we all know how likely that is to happen.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 16 00:25:34 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 15:25:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing members with non-standard characters
In-Reply-To: <4582ED1D.5090304@ncmail.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612151525340937b0be694b@msapiro>

Anne Ramey wrote:
>Mark Sapiro wrote:

>> Try this one
>>
>>   bin/list_members -i listname | bin/remove_members -f - -n listname
>>
>> If that doesn't work, see <http://veenet.value.net/~msapiro/scripts/>
>> or <http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/> for a link to an
>> experimental withlist script that should do it.
>>
>>   
>Miracle of miracles, this appears to have worked.  Thank you so much.


Which worked, the list_members -i | remove_members pipe or the withlist
script?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Dec 16 03:40:54 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 20:40:54 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3: Outgoing
 messagesstuck in qrunner/in folder
In-Reply-To: <3B65E2E1-CC0F-40F5-87F1-708CD5FF0A1A@cprp.ca>
References: <PC176020061213153118093787e19c5b@msapiro>
	<3F10FCB6-8E67-4A63-87C7-86132D86016E@cprp.ca>
	<p06240502c1a7bb1f0dcc@[10.0.1.11]>
	<3B65E2E1-CC0F-40F5-87F1-708CD5FF0A1A@cprp.ca>
Message-ID: <p06240500c1a90c178553@[10.0.1.11]>

At 8:53 AM -0400 12/15/06, Pierre Igot wrote:

>  IMPORTANT: Please note that the correct spelling for Mac OS X and
>  Mac OS X Server is with a space between the "Mac" and the "OS".

Those of us who have a long history with Mac OS (like, back to the 
days of the single floppy disk Mac Plus) will tend to have problems 
with this particular spelling issue.

That said, I will make an effort to find and correct all entries 
where this is misspelled.  I probably wrote most of them, so I have 
the responsibility to make sure that they are correct.

>  I think part of the problem here stems from the very name of this list.
>  It's called "mailman-users." I am a "mailman user." So I feel that this
>  is the right list for me to get help about using Mailman. There is
>  nothing in the list description that warns users of non-standard
>  Mailman distributions away from the list. On the contrary, this
>  description puts the emphasis on users vs. developers. So naturally
>  "mailman users" such as myself feel that it's the natural place to go
>  and ask questions:

There's two places where the mailing lists are described.  One place 
is on the web pages at list.org (and mirrored at gnu.org), and one is 
within the Mailman listinfo description itself.  Only Barry can 
change the description at list.org/gnu.org, but I will go in and 
update the listinfo description.

>  That said, I am in full agreement that the FAQ needs to be read first,
>  and your updates are important--as long as you spell "Mac OS X"
>  properly. Otherwise, Mac OS X users might not even find the relevant
>  section :).

Not a problem.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Dec 16 03:45:13 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 20:45:13 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail delivery notification
In-Reply-To: <3fdbc0030612150548m217c2636na16723e960c1bb8c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3fdbc0030612150548m217c2636na16723e960c1bb8c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06240501c1a90d51cf0d@[10.0.1.11]>

At 10:48 AM -0300 12/15/06, Andres Tarallo wrote:

>  We need to receive a notification that the suscribers had received the mail.
>  We where thinking in adding a header that makes the mail client return an
>  automatic answer.

You can put in a header that some mail clients will recognize, and 
which may be configured to allow a return receipt to be generated. 
However, not all clients understand that concept at all, there have 
been multiple different attempts and standards to try to achieve this 
goal, and some of those multiple attempts are mutually incompatible.

Unless you can guarantee that all subscribers will only have a 
certain client available to them, and no possibility whatsoever of 
forwarding their mail somewhere else or being able to use any other 
type of client, and that this one required client will support 
whatever standard you care to choose, then there are no guarantees 
that you'll be able to enforce this requirement.  Moreover, some mail 
servers are configured to strip all such headers, so even if all the 
mail clients are fully compliant with your requirements, you also 
have to guarantee that all mail servers are likewise compliant with 
those requirements.


If you can't enforce those kinds of hard draconian requirements on 
everyone, then you're screwed.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Dec 16 03:47:07 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 20:47:07 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Case-Sensitivity Problem?
In-Reply-To: <4582ADF7.3040903@agora-net.com>
References: <PC1760200612131201500000855b9a52@msapiro>
	<45817D37.9010100@agora-net.com> <p06240500c1a770ed68d4@[10.0.1.11]>
	<4582ADF7.3040903@agora-net.com>
Message-ID: <p06240502c1a90e560c56@[10.0.1.11]>

At 9:15 AM -0500 12/15/06, Ryan Steele wrote:

>  Ah, okay.  I guess the fact that it first identified the message-id
>  implicitly and then explicitly lead me to believe it thought that,
>  in the case of the first line, it was identifying the indiscernible
>  address.  Thank you very much for clarifying.

Yeah, the stuff that Mailman logs is not always clear as to what 
means what.  After several years of dealing with it, I still get 
confused about some less common types of log entries myself.  This is 
something I'd hope to see get greatly improved in the future, but 
we're not there yet.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Dec 16 03:51:20 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 20:51:20 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Concerning Build-time options
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612151105040015f5706e73@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200612151105040015f5706e73@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06240503c1a90f04351b@[10.0.1.11]>

At 11:05 AM -0800 12/15/06, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  The inconsistency between Mailman mail and other mail is puzzling. Do
>  both paths send through the same initial MTA?
>
>  In any case, if the list's host_name is correct, I don't think it's
>  Mailman.

I would not be at all surprised if the fault is a misconfigured MTA 
which is inappropriately replacing the external domain name with the 
internal domain name, for e-mail addressed to external clients.

Since there is this schizophrenia with regards to the domain names 
used, I'd recommend keeping all that completely outside of Mailman. 
Only worry about one given set of internal domain names for everyone, 
then let the MTAs to the outside world be responsible for handling 
all internal/external domain name conversion in both directions. 
You'd probably have to fix up the web server system in the same way.

The other alternative is to logically put the Mailman server in the 
external network and have it know nothing about the internal users, 
and then let the MTAs and web proxy servers handle the translation 
the other way.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From seeleman at gse.upenn.edu  Sat Dec 16 04:19:06 2006
From: seeleman at gse.upenn.edu (Todd Seeleman)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 22:19:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listinclusion.patch
Message-ID: <458365AA.1070702@gse.upenn.edu>

Greetings,

    I'm trying to apply this patch to a mailman-2.1.9 installation but I 
don't know how.  Would somebody please help.

Thanks.

-- 

  ***************************************************************
  Todd Seeleman, Systems Analyst
  Penn Graduate School of Education
  3440 Market Street, Rm 477        email: seeleman at gse.upenn.edu
  Philadelphia, PA. 19104-3325      phone: 215-573-8378
  ***************************************************************


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Dec 16 04:41:10 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 21:41:10 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3: Outgoing
 messagesstuck in qrunner/in folder
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c1a90c178553@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <PC176020061213153118093787e19c5b@msapiro>
	<3F10FCB6-8E67-4A63-87C7-86132D86016E@cprp.ca>
	<p06240502c1a7bb1f0dcc@[10.0.1.11]>
	<3B65E2E1-CC0F-40F5-87F1-708CD5FF0A1A@cprp.ca>
	<p06240500c1a90c178553@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <p06240508c1a918155503@[10.0.1.11]>

At 8:40 PM -0600 12/15/06, Brad Knowles wrote:

>  That said, I will make an effort to find and correct all entries
>  where this is misspelled.  I probably wrote most of them, so I have
>  the responsibility to make sure that they are correct.

Found and corrected, in a surprising number of places.

>  There's two places where the mailing lists are described.  One place
>  is on the web pages at list.org (and mirrored at gnu.org), and one is
>  within the Mailman listinfo description itself.  Only Barry can
>  change the description at list.org/gnu.org, but I will go in and
>  update the listinfo description.

I corrected the listinfo description at 
<http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>.  Please take 
a look and see if you have any further suggestions.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From barry at python.org  Sat Dec 16 05:44:21 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 23:44:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Case-Sensitivity Problem?
In-Reply-To: <p06240502c1a90e560c56@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <PC1760200612131201500000855b9a52@msapiro>
	<45817D37.9010100@agora-net.com>
	<p06240500c1a770ed68d4@[10.0.1.11]>
	<4582ADF7.3040903@agora-net.com>
	<p06240502c1a90e560c56@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <92BBEFF5-0DC2-4F50-AB8F-B5633670DEAE@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Dec 15, 2006, at 9:47 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:

> Yeah, the stuff that Mailman logs is not always clear as to what
> means what.  After several years of dealing with it, I still get
> confused about some less common types of log entries myself.  This is
> something I'd hope to see get greatly improved in the future, but
> we're not there yet.

Hi Brad,

My suggestion would be to use the Mailman wiki to flesh out what  
improvements you'd like to see in the log messages for various  
operations.  This is of course an open invitation to all interested  
parties.

- -Barry

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin)

iQCVAwUBRYN5q3EjvBPtnXfVAQJ4vQP/XcyL1uRlglp964zt/YtT0yTBT5CxWfzw
0uqjO7NETP+AmrcuH9XdsdgwGCK4qunXx4GgVHQaEtJgRXF5j0O5BiNZBWd8mfK3
8MJz2bgQcc+y+T2JhzddUCboaGjtfvEnYITgP7eCIyHC/BK5uYMr/FFHAlU5dZPG
sqcELNgfncY=
=8dvO
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From barry at python.org  Sat Dec 16 05:46:07 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 23:46:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3: Outgoing
	messagesstuck in qrunner/in folder
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c1a90c178553@[10.0.1.11]>
References: <PC176020061213153118093787e19c5b@msapiro>
	<3F10FCB6-8E67-4A63-87C7-86132D86016E@cprp.ca>
	<p06240502c1a7bb1f0dcc@[10.0.1.11]>
	<3B65E2E1-CC0F-40F5-87F1-708CD5FF0A1A@cprp.ca>
	<p06240500c1a90c178553@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <B3FD6D6C-0A75-405E-A231-AE9AF44CC559@python.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Dec 15, 2006, at 9:40 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:

> There's two places where the mailing lists are described.  One place
> is on the web pages at list.org (and mirrored at gnu.org), and one is
> within the Mailman listinfo description itself.  Only Barry can
> change the description at list.org/gnu.org, but I will go in and
> update the listinfo description.

What kind of changes are you looking for?  Do you have specific text  
you'd like to change the online pages to use?

- -Barry

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin)

iQCVAwUBRYN6D3EjvBPtnXfVAQKsawP/by1uXjjSlijUTa3kAtHpzOeTL24WPfGJ
mA4sSsmZVGsudSZu+0ElYVi9EhG7XjHVy97IZzdYww0rA8fTcY+MPhOM+XUraSof
0zLcRXQLY3CGLmGJMe0m+ruV/YOSxJf2WHWCl68Eh8u8GOynwxiypsCiGe2ft/C3
KF1/Q5ENzXU=
=W4LZ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From lordrich at gmail.com  Sat Dec 16 03:34:25 2006
From: lordrich at gmail.com (Richard Kirkcaldy)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 02:34:25 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archiving turned off, attachments still saved
Message-ID: <c30aa020612151834v15190867sdfb66687fde8f8d4@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
Am I missing something here?  I've got archiving set to private and
turned off for one particular list, and it's quite rightly not
archiving.  However, it is saving attachments in the form
private/listname/attachments/yyyymmdd/hash.

Is there a reason these attachments are being saved?  And is there a
way I can stop them being saved?  And can I simply delete them,
possibly with a cron job?

-- 
Richard Kirkcaldy

From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Dec 16 14:48:19 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 22:48:19 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server
	10.3:	Outgoingmessagesstuck in qrunner/in folder
In-Reply-To: <20061215142603.GI2697@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
References: <20061214171831.8D8C37AE@mail.tuunq.com>
	<130C443D-D1F3-43B9-85B9-203BCC4656B3@cprp.ca>
	<p06240501c1a7726bc245@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061214223252.GF2697@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<p06240500c1a7b0d1a378@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061215032053.GG2697@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<p06240505c1a7dd180433@[10.0.1.11]>
	<20061215062419.GH2697@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<87y7p9r2hg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<20061215142603.GI2697@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <87lkl8q7do.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Todd Zullinger writes:

 > I agree that if someone comes here with questions that are obviously
 > very dependent on some customization that their vendor has made that
 > they should be directed to check with the vendor.  (Same goes for
 > users who need more basic help learning to use their OS of choice.)
 > But many, if not most, questions from users who are using a Red Hat or
 > even Apple package don't fall into that category, IMO.

I agree.  But nobody's suggesting a "don't post here if you're using
Red Hat" policy.  The policy is that for installation problems,
problems soon after installation, and missing functionality, ask the
vendor *first*, unless you're sufficiently expert that you already
know what a standard installation from source looks like and can
explain the differences.

Note that without that expertise, you can't figure out what's
"obviously very dependent."  I think that if the user doesn't know,
the default should be to go to the vendor, who knows more about
installation issues and who has an interest in bullet-proofing their
package.


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 16 19:11:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 10:11:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archiving turned off, attachments still saved
In-Reply-To: <c30aa020612151834v15190867sdfb66687fde8f8d4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612161011410421708b3c0e@msapiro>

Richard Kirkcaldy wrote:

>Am I missing something here?  I've got archiving set to private and
>turned off for one particular list, and it's quite rightly not
>archiving.  However, it is saving attachments in the form
>private/listname/attachments/yyyymmdd/hash.
>
>Is there a reason these attachments are being saved?  And is there a
>way I can stop them being saved?  And can I simply delete them,
>possibly with a cron job?


Yes, there is a reason. Attachments are removed and stored in the
archives/private/listname/attachments/ directory by 'Scrubber'.
Scrubber is invoked in 3 ways to do this.

1) if Non-digest options->scrub_nondigest is Yes, all messages will be
scrubbed in incoming message processing.

2) messages are scrubbed in digest processing for the 'plain' format
digest.

3) messages are scrubbed for the pipermail archiving.

If you don't want any attachments scrubbed and saved, you have to be
sure scrub_nondigest is No, archiving is off, and the list is not
digestable (digestable = No on Digest options).

You can delete them, but then they won't be available to digest
subscribers whose digests have links to them.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From brad at shub-internet.org  Sat Dec 16 19:05:17 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 12:05:17 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3: Outgoing
 messagesstuck in qrunner/in folder
In-Reply-To: <B3FD6D6C-0A75-405E-A231-AE9AF44CC559@python.org>
References: <PC176020061213153118093787e19c5b@msapiro>
	<3F10FCB6-8E67-4A63-87C7-86132D86016E@cprp.ca>
	<p06240502c1a7bb1f0dcc@[10.0.1.11]>
	<3B65E2E1-CC0F-40F5-87F1-708CD5FF0A1A@cprp.ca>
	<p06240500c1a90c178553@[10.0.1.11]>
	<B3FD6D6C-0A75-405E-A231-AE9AF44CC559@python.org>
Message-ID: <p06240500c1a9e3bc455b@[10.0.1.11]>

At 11:46 PM -0500 12/15/06, Barry Warsaw wrote:

>>  There's two places where the mailing lists are described.  One place
>>  is on the web pages at list.org (and mirrored at gnu.org), and one is
>>  within the Mailman listinfo description itself.  Only Barry can
>>  change the description at list.org/gnu.org, but I will go in and
>>  update the listinfo description.
>
>  What kind of changes are you looking for?  Do you have specific text
>  you'd like to change the online pages to use?

Well, I updated the listinfo page for mailman-users in three places. 
The first paragraph now reads:

	This mailing list is for users and other parties interested
	in the Mailman mailing list management system, as provided
	for download via the resources shown at
	http://www.list.org/download.html. There is a separate
	mailing list for people interested in discussion about
	development of the system - mailman-developers.

In particular, I added the reference to which version of the Mailman 
code we're talking about.  I then added another paragraph, which 
reads:

	Unofficially, we will try to provide what support we can
	for versions of Mailman that come from other sources
	(e.g., vendor-provided binary packages, vendor-provided
	pre-installed software, etc...), but there will be a
	limit to the level of support that we can provide for
	versions of Mailman other than those which were built
	directly from code downloaded directly from the
	resources shown at http://www.list.org/download.html.

The idea being to make it clear to people that we will do as much as 
we can to support Mailman regardless of where they got the software 
and what modifications may have been made to it by the vendor, but to 
also recognize that there will be limitations to the level of support 
that we can provide for these versions.  Oh, and to reinforce which 
version of Mailman we're talking about being the one that we 
officially support here.

Finally, I added another paragraph, which reads:

	PLEASE MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAVE READ ALL THE RELEVANT
	FAQ ENTRIES, ARCHIVE MESSAGES, ETC... BEFORE POSTING
	ANY QUESTIONS TO THE LIST -- ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE
	ANY QUESTIONS REGARDING A VERSION OF MAILMAN THAT
	COMES FROM AN ALTERNATIVE SOURCE.

And yes, I went out of my way to make sure that this paragraph was in 
ALL CAPS.  For the benefit of the whole Mailman community, I think 
it's really important to remind people that they are responsible for 
reading all the FAQ entries, archive messages, etc... that might be 
relevant to their question.  This is doubly true for versions of 
Mailman that come from other sources.


Now, how much you might want to take from this and incorporate into 
the pages at list.org/gnu.org, I would say that would be up to you. 
If there are any other changes you'd like made to the listinfo pages, 
you're welcome to let me know and I'll be glad to make those for you 
-- if you like.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 16 19:24:36 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 10:24:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listinclusion.patch
In-Reply-To: <458365AA.1070702@gse.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612161024360500708b3c58@msapiro>

Todd Seeleman wrote:
>
>    I'm trying to apply this patch to a mailman-2.1.9 installation but I 
>don't know how.  Would somebody please help.


as root or the mailman user or any other user that has write access to
the Mailman installation, do

  cd path/to/installed/directory/Mailman

(this is the directory that contains the Gui/ and Handlers/
directories). Then do

  patch -p2 < path/to/listinclusion.patch

You can also do it by cd to the directory above the Mailman directory
and then using -p1 rather than -p2 as the option to the patch command.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From seeleman at gse.upenn.edu  Sat Dec 16 22:27:53 2006
From: seeleman at gse.upenn.edu (Todd Seeleman)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 16:27:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listinclusion.patch
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612161024360500708b3c58@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200612161024360500708b3c58@msapiro>
Message-ID: <458464D9.8000202@gse.upenn.edu>

Greetings Mark,

	I'm running mailman-2.1.9, I read the FAQ, and I followed your
directions however nothing happens.  The machine just sits there until I
^C out of it.


wal9100# cd Mailman

wal9100# pwd

/usr/local/mailman/Mailman
wal9100# ls -l /usr/local/mailman/patch
total 3
-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman      2551 Dec 15 21:09 listinclusion.patch

wal9100# patch -p2 /usr/local/mailman/patch/listinclusion.patch

and nothing happens.

wal9100# patch -v
patch 2.5.4
Copyright 1984-1988 Larry Wall
Copyright 1989-1999 Free Software Foundation, Inc.

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Todd Seeleman wrote:
>>    I'm trying to apply this patch to a mailman-2.1.9 installation but I 
>> don't know how.  Would somebody please help.
> 
> 
> as root or the mailman user or any other user that has write access to
> the Mailman installation, do
> 
>   cd path/to/installed/directory/Mailman
> 
> (this is the directory that contains the Gui/ and Handlers/
> directories). Then do
> 
>   patch -p2 < path/to/listinclusion.patch
> 
> You can also do it by cd to the directory above the Mailman directory
> and then using -p1 rather than -p2 as the option to the patch command.
> 

-- 

  *****************************************************************
   Todd Seeleman, Systems Analyst
   Penn Graduate School of Education
   3440 Market Street, Rm 477        email: seeleman at gse.upenn.edu
   Philadelphia, PA. 19104-3325      phone: 215-573-8378
  *****************************************************************



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Dec 17 00:02:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 15:02:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listinclusion.patch
In-Reply-To: <458464D9.8000202@gse.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612161502540234a5bcbc60@msapiro>

>	I'm running mailman-2.1.9, I read the FAQ, and I followed your
>directions however nothing happens.  The machine just sits there until I
>^C out of it.
>
>
>wal9100# cd Mailman
>
>wal9100# pwd
>
>/usr/local/mailman/Mailman
>wal9100# ls -l /usr/local/mailman/patch
>total 3
>-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman      2551 Dec 15 21:09 listinclusion.patch
>
>wal9100# patch -p2 /usr/local/mailman/patch/listinclusion.patch
>
>and nothing happens.

You're missing the '<' input redirection. It needs to be

  patch -p2 < /usr/local/mailman/patch/listinclusion.patch

Without the '<', the patch command tries to read the patch from your
keyboard.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From seeleman at gse.upenn.edu  Sun Dec 17 01:59:32 2006
From: seeleman at gse.upenn.edu (Todd Seeleman)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 19:59:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listinclusion.patch
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612161502540234a5bcbc60@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200612161502540234a5bcbc60@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45849674.2050706@gse.upenn.edu>


Wow that was stupid.  Thanks.


Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> 	I'm running mailman-2.1.9, I read the FAQ, and I followed your
>> directions however nothing happens.  The machine just sits there until I
>> ^C out of it.
>>
>>
>> wal9100# cd Mailman
>>
>> wal9100# pwd
>>
>> /usr/local/mailman/Mailman
>> wal9100# ls -l /usr/local/mailman/patch
>> total 3
>> -rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman      2551 Dec 15 21:09 listinclusion.patch
>>
>> wal9100# patch -p2 /usr/local/mailman/patch/listinclusion.patch
>>
>> and nothing happens.
> 
> You're missing the '<' input redirection. It needs to be
> 
>   patch -p2 < /usr/local/mailman/patch/listinclusion.patch
> 
> Without the '<', the patch command tries to read the patch from your
> keyboard.
> 

-- 

  *****************************************************************
   Todd Seeleman, Systems Analyst
   Penn Graduate School of Education
   3440 Market Street, Rm 477        email: seeleman at gse.upenn.edu
   Philadelphia, PA. 19104-3325      phone: 215-573-8378
  *****************************************************************


From ralph.utbult at abf.se  Mon Dec 18 16:04:34 2006
From: ralph.utbult at abf.se (Ralph Utbult)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 16:04:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wrong group
Message-ID: <A3EEB985B9693B4BB29A3B2D8C39AD0AD5E27A@sea0620smail.abf.local>

I run mailman with Postfix. Have MTA='Postfix' and have run check_perm a
number of times, with -f
How do I tweak the mail server (a.k..a Postfix) to run the script as
group "mail"?

Ralph


    "/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman". Command output: Group
    mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be
executed as
    group "mail", but the system's mail server executed the mail script
as
    group "mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as
group
    "mail", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option
    `--with-mail-gid=mailman'.

From tmz at pobox.com  Mon Dec 18 16:47:55 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 10:47:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wrong group
In-Reply-To: <A3EEB985B9693B4BB29A3B2D8C39AD0AD5E27A@sea0620smail.abf.local>
References: <A3EEB985B9693B4BB29A3B2D8C39AD0AD5E27A@sea0620smail.abf.local>
Message-ID: <20061218154755.GF15217@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Ralph Utbult wrote:
> I run mailman with Postfix. Have MTA='Postfix' and have run
> check_perm a number of times, with -f
> How do I tweak the mail server (a.k..a Postfix) to run the script as
> group "mail"?

What are the permissions and owner/group for the mailman aliases file?
Postfix will execute the mailman wrapper as the group that the aliases
file belongs to, so you should be able to fix this by changing that
group to mail instead of mailman.

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
Freedom can be preserved only if it is treated as a supreme principle
which must not be sacrificed for any particular advantage.
    -- F. A. Hayek

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 542 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20061218/78cf83ab/attachment.pgp 

From ralph.utbult at abf.se  Mon Dec 18 17:20:46 2006
From: ralph.utbult at abf.se (Ralph Utbult)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 17:20:46 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW:  Wrong group
Message-ID: <A3EEB985B9693B4BB29A3B2D8C39AD0AD5E27F@sea0620smail.abf.local>

Ooops - sent this to Dan instead of the list...

> > I run mailman with Postfix. Have MTA='Postfix' and have run
> check_perm
> > a number of times, with -f How do I tweak the mail server (a.k..a
> > Postfix) to run the script as group "mail"?
> 
> If you installed Mailman from source, it's usually much easier to 
> follow the other suggested fix: rerun configure the
> "--with-mail- gid=mailman" option. If you installed from a package 
> that might be more difficult. Please tell us what version of Mailman 
> you're using and how it was installed.
> 
> Dan

Installed package via X (Gnome). Version 2.1.9. Since I'm not a regular
Un*x administrator (fix some simple mail problem once a month) I tend to
like GUI over CMD ;-) 

Todd, my /usr/lib/mailman/subdir-files all have mail as GUID. Isn't that
suppose to mean mail client (Postfix)?
Silly question, is the mail wrapper the /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman
file?
Aliases is root mail and aliases.db is mail mail

Isn't group mailman used at all?

/Ralph

From cpz at tuunq.com  Mon Dec 18 18:38:52 2006
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 09:38:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3: Outgoing
 messagesstuck in qrunner/in folder
In-Reply-To: <p06240500c1a9e3bc455b@[10.0.1.11]> from Brad Knowles at "Dec 16, 
	2006 12:05:17 pm"
Message-ID: <20061218173853.3BC147AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Brad Knowles wrote:

> Well, I updated the listinfo page for mailman-users in three places. 
> The first paragraph now reads:
> 
> 	This mailing list is for users and other parties interested
> 	in the Mailman mailing list management system, as provided
> 	for download via the resources shown at
> 	http://www.list.org/download.html. There is a separate
> 	mailing list for people interested in discussion about
> 	development of the system - mailman-developers.

Brad- I like those descriptions, although I might further clarify that
"uesrs" doesn't mean people sending mail through mailman, it means
people installing/managing/troubleshooting mailman.

Also, could we use a short faq page that lists some common search terms 
and their local format/style? This would cover things like the space 
in "MAC OS".

z!


From tmz at pobox.com  Mon Dec 18 18:36:11 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 12:36:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW:  Wrong group
In-Reply-To: <A3EEB985B9693B4BB29A3B2D8C39AD0AD5E27F@sea0620smail.abf.local>
References: <A3EEB985B9693B4BB29A3B2D8C39AD0AD5E27F@sea0620smail.abf.local>
Message-ID: <20061218173611.GI15217@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Ralph Utbult wrote:
> Installed package via X (Gnome). Version 2.1.9.

What distro and distro version?

> Since I'm not a regular Un*x administrator (fix some simple mail
> problem once a month) I tend to like GUI over CMD ;-) 

Fair enough.  Though mailman provides no GUI method of installing, so
any such method that is used would have to be provided by your distro
and you'd likely have to ask them for help if it fails (or hope that
someone here uses the same distro and can tell you how to get it
working).

> Todd, my /usr/lib/mailman/subdir-files all have mail as GUID. Isn't
> that suppose to mean mail client (Postfix)?
> Silly question, is the mail wrapper the
> /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman file?

Yeah, that's the wrapper script.  I'm not entirely sure how or if
postfix checks the permissions and ownership of the wrapper.  The
perms/ownership I think are most important to postfix are those of the
alias file.

> Aliases is root mail and aliases.db is mail mail

That seems like the right setup.  What does your Postfix alias_maps
setting say?  Is there a separate entry for the mailman aliases
there?

> Isn't group mailman used at all?

The default if you install mailman from source is to use group
mailman.  I know that Debian uses group mail in their packages.  I'm
not sure what other distros use group mail.  In any event, that's a
choice made by the folks that package mailman for your system.  You'll
have to ask whomever that is for specific advice on getting the
Postfix integration working with the setup they've provided you.  I've
installed mailman from source and from Red Hat and Fedora packages and
not had much trouble getting that integration working smoothly.  YMMV.

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
To have a successful relationship, I must learn to make it look like
I'm giving as much as I'm getting.

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 542 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20061218/febd4300/attachment.pgp 

From tmz at pobox.com  Mon Dec 18 19:11:38 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 13:11:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW:  Wrong group
In-Reply-To: <20061218173611.GI15217@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
References: <A3EEB985B9693B4BB29A3B2D8C39AD0AD5E27F@sea0620smail.abf.local>
	<20061218173611.GI15217@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <20061218181138.GK15217@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

Ralph,

Also, you should check out the Mailman install manual, at least the
section on integrating Postfix.

http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html

And of course, peruse the Mailman FAQ if you haven't already done so.

If the package you are using has omitted some of these steps you may
need to finish them.  And file a bug/feature request with the packager
to see if they can do this automatically in the future.

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a
"Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble.
    -- Mohandas Gandhi

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 542 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20061218/cee58429/attachment.pgp 

From stupidmail4me at yahoo.com  Mon Dec 18 22:45:31 2006
From: stupidmail4me at yahoo.com (stupidmail4me)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 13:45:31 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem hooking mailman up with sendmail
Message-ID: <417764.35695.qm@web30110.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'm pulling my hair out on this one.

I have mailman working on one machine and can't get it
to work on another with the exact same config.

Here's the setup:
OpenBSD 4.0
Mailman 2.1.8p3

I have in my mc file I have
VIRTUSER_DOMAIN(`lists.foo.org') set (and yes, I've
run m4 and made the cf file). In mailertable I've got
lists.foo.org mailman:lists.foo.org. But if I try and
send a message I get a 550 5.1.1 User Unknown.

What am I doing wrong? For the life of me I'v  tried
everything?!?!?!?!


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Dec 19 00:40:45 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 17:40:45 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Mac OS X Server 10.3: Outgoing
 messagesstuck in qrunner/in folder
In-Reply-To: <20061218173853.3BC147AE@mail.tuunq.com>
References: <20061218173853.3BC147AE@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <p06240506c1acd749c2ba@[10.0.1.11]>

At 9:38 AM -0800 12/18/06, Carl Zwanzig wrote:

>  Brad- I like those descriptions, although I might further clarify that
>  "uesrs" doesn't mean people sending mail through mailman, it means
>  people installing/managing/troubleshooting mailman.

Good point.  I'll make that change.

>  Also, could we use a short faq page that lists some common search terms
>  and their local format/style? This would cover things like the space
>  in "MAC OS".

Also a good idea.  Do you want to get something started, and then let 
others fill in/correct as necessary?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From kelly.terry.jones at gmail.com  Tue Dec 19 03:07:21 2006
From: kelly.terry.jones at gmail.com (Kelly Jones)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 19:07:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to exclude certain topics but subscribe to all
	others?
Message-ID: <26face530612181807r48e76579v20f5984520195056@mail.gmail.com>

I'm subscribed to a mailman mailing list. I want to receive all emails
on the list *except those* matching a given topic or topics. How do I
do this?

If a new topic is created, I want to be subscribed to it by default,
but have the option of excluding it as well.

-- 
We're just a Bunch Of Regular Guys, a collective group that's trying
to understand and assimilate technology. We feel that resistance to
new ideas and technology is unwise and ultimately futile.

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 19 03:26:47 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 18:26:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW:  Wrong group
In-Reply-To: <A3EEB985B9693B4BB29A3B2D8C39AD0AD5E27F@sea0620smail.abf.local>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612181826470609adf2b650@msapiro>

Ralph Utbult wrote:
>
>Todd, my /usr/lib/mailman/subdir-files all have mail as GUID. Isn't that
>suppose to mean mail client (Postfix)?


They should all be GID = the group of the 'mailman' user, which is
probably 'mailman' judging from the group mismatch error you reported.
Then, the question is why doesn't bin/check_perms -f fix it? Are you
running this as root?


>Silly question, is the mail wrapper the /usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman
>file?


Yes.


>Aliases is root mail and aliases.db is mail mail
>
>Isn't group mailman used at all?


Which ailases and aliases.db. The ones in /etc, I'm guessing.

With MTA = 'Postfix' Mailman maintains its aliases separately in
Mailman's data/aliases and data/aliases.db. These are the files that
are apparently GID='mailman' and not GID='mail'. However, if you
change them to GID='mail', Mailman's list create and delete processes
may no longer be able to update them, so you may be stuck.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>
for more on how Mailman uses groups.

It seems like whoever created your package either didn't intend you to
use Postfix or did a poor job.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 19 03:37:37 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 18:37:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to exclude certain topics but subscribe to
	allothers?
In-Reply-To: <26face530612181807r48e76579v20f5984520195056@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612181837370109adf2b452@msapiro>

Kelly Jones wrote:

>I'm subscribed to a mailman mailing list. I want to receive all emails
>on the list *except those* matching a given topic or topics. How do I
>do this?


You have to subscribe to every topic except the ones you don't want,
and also elect to receive messages that don't match any topic. This
may or may not be what you want because a message can match more than
one topic, and if one of those is one you want to exclude and another
isn't, you'll receive the post.


>If a new topic is created, I want to be subscribed to it by default,
>but have the option of excluding it as well.


It doesn't work that way. You have to somehow become aware that there
is a new topic and subscribe to it.

In order to get what you want, you'd have to implement a 'topics to
avoid' option. There currently is no such option.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 19 04:09:29 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 19:09:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem hooking mailman up with sendmail
In-Reply-To: <417764.35695.qm@web30110.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612181909290765adf2b6da@msapiro>

stupidmail4me wrote:
>
>I have in my mc file I have
>VIRTUSER_DOMAIN(`lists.foo.org') set (and yes, I've
>run m4 and made the cf file). In mailertable I've got
>lists.foo.org mailman:lists.foo.org. But if I try and
>send a message I get a 550 5.1.1 User Unknown.


Have you installed aliases for the list(s) in /etc/aliases or ??

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From clement.hermann at businessdecision.com  Tue Dec 19 09:47:03 2006
From: clement.hermann at businessdecision.com (Clement Hermann)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 09:47:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem hooking mailman up with sendmail
In-Reply-To: <417764.35695.qm@web30110.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <417764.35695.qm@web30110.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4587A707.8030406@businessdecision.com>

stupidmail4me a ?crit :
> Here's the setup:
> OpenBSD 4.0
> Mailman 2.1.8p3
>
> I have in my mc file I have
> VIRTUSER_DOMAIN(`lists.foo.org') set (and yes, I've
> run m4 and made the cf file). In mailertable I've got
> lists.foo.org mailman:lists.foo.org. But if I try and
> send a message I get a 550 5.1.1 User Unknown.
>
>   
I'm  not sure I understand what you're trying, but I never added a
mailman mailer, and so a mailman:<domain> definition in the mailertable.
Rather, the mailman mails should go thru the "local" mailer, then thru
"prog" with pipes aliases (local name: "|command").

Also, IIRC, putting a domain in mailertable will prevent the
virtusertable to be checked, so the virtuser_domain is useless here.
However, I'm not really sure about the order, need a sendmail expert here ;)

I'm almost sure that you cannot have both, though.

Regards,

-- 
Cl?ment Hermann

From turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp  Tue Dec 19 11:40:35 2006
From: turnbull at sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 19:40:35 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW:  Wrong group
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612181826470609adf2b650@msapiro>
References: <A3EEB985B9693B4BB29A3B2D8C39AD0AD5E27F@sea0620smail.abf.local>
	<PC1760200612181826470609adf2b650@msapiro>
Message-ID: <87fybcp3rw.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Mark Sapiro writes:

 > Then, the question is why doesn't bin/check_perms -f fix it? Are you
 > running this as root?

This may have improved more recently, but sometimes I've had to run
check_perms -f more than once.


From ralph.utbult at abf.se  Tue Dec 19 16:04:50 2006
From: ralph.utbult at abf.se (Ralph Utbult)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 16:04:50 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW:  Wrong group
In-Reply-To: <87fybcp3rw.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <A3EEB985B9693B4BB29A3B2D8C39AD0AD5E2DE@sea0620smail.abf.local>

> Mark Sapiro writes:
> 
>  > Then, the question is why doesn't bin/check_perms -f fix 
> it? Are you  > running this as root?
> 
> This may have improved more recently, but sometimes I've had 
> to run check_perms -f more than once.

Ran it a couple of times myself ;-)

My problem is partially solved - changed ID for data/aliases* to mail
mail. It seems that the web interface is working (at least locally, on
the mail server). I will try to access it from a windows client inside
my LAN, but if that doesn't work, no sweat. 
Thanks, guys!

/Ralph

From stupidmail4me at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 19 17:07:26 2006
From: stupidmail4me at yahoo.com (stupidmail4me)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 08:07:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem hooking mailman up with sendmail
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612181909290765adf2b6da@msapiro>
Message-ID: <870651.19539.qm@web30105.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I'm using mm-handler from /contrib.

I checked and the aliases I do have work (root,
MAILER-DAEMON, etc). But on my other setup it accepts
any email address on that domain and let's mm-handler
handle it from there so I don't need aliases in the
aliases file.

Like I said, everything (sendmail's cf file,
mm-handler, mm_cfg.py) is the same except for
appropriate domain entries.

--- Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> stupidmail4me wrote:
> >
> >I have in my mc file I have
> >VIRTUSER_DOMAIN(`lists.foo.org') set (and yes, I've
> >run m4 and made the cf file). In mailertable I've
> got
> >lists.foo.org mailman:lists.foo.org. But if I try
> and
> >send a message I get a 550 5.1.1 User Unknown.
> 
> 
> Have you installed aliases for the list(s) in
> /etc/aliases or ??
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is
> for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use
> your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From stupidmail4me at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 19 17:09:05 2006
From: stupidmail4me at yahoo.com (stupidmail4me)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 08:09:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem hooking mailman up with sendmail
In-Reply-To: <4587A707.8030406@businessdecision.com>
Message-ID: <538062.66054.qm@web30101.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


--- Clement Hermann
<clement.hermann at businessdecision.com> wrote:

> stupidmail4me a ?crit :
> > Here's the setup:
> > OpenBSD 4.0
> > Mailman 2.1.8p3
> >
> > I have in my mc file I have
> > VIRTUSER_DOMAIN(`lists.foo.org') set (and yes,
> I've
> > run m4 and made the cf file). In mailertable I've
> got
> > lists.foo.org mailman:lists.foo.org. But if I try
> and
> > send a message I get a 550 5.1.1 User Unknown.
> >
> >   
> I'm  not sure I understand what you're trying, but I
> never added a
> mailman mailer, and so a mailman:<domain> definition
> in the mailertable.
> Rather, the mailman mails should go thru the "local"
> mailer, then thru
> "prog" with pipes aliases (local name: "|command").
> 
> Also, IIRC, putting a domain in mailertable will
> prevent the
> virtusertable to be checked, so the virtuser_domain
> is useless here.
> However, I'm not really sure about the order, need a
> sendmail expert here ;)

VIRTUSER_DOMAIN is not useless, it still gets run
through virtusertable. You need a VIRTUSER_DOMAIN so
that it runs through a mailer (which becomes the
"local" mailer, in this case, mm-handler).

> 
> I'm almost sure that you cannot have both, though.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -- 
> Cl?ment Hermann
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Tue Dec 19 16:59:46 2006
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 09:59:46 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about postfix-to-mailman.py
Message-ID: <200612191559.kBJFxkvD012716@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

I am trying to decide whether to use the Debian/Ubuntu 2.1.5-9ubuntu4.1
package or to use the 2.1.9 source for Mailman.  I see that Ubuntu
comes with

     postfix-to-mailman.py

a Postfix transport pipe.  I do not see this in the 2.1.9 source.
Is this transport pipe really needed?

Am I correct in assuming that I can use this python module even if
I install Mailman from the 2.1.9 source?

Thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From james.farren at gmail.com  Tue Dec 19 18:05:42 2006
From: james.farren at gmail.com (James Farren)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 18:05:42 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to access Mailman cgi's via Web Server
Message-ID: <7d73ae7f0612190905p131c95ebtd720f67712c5411d@mail.gmail.com>

I have a major problems executing mailman cgi's via web server.
I am getting very desperate right now since I don't see a solution to this
problem.

Is there a ways to make this work and what should I do?
---
When accessing: http://domain.com/mailman/admin


suexec.log:

[2006-12-17 22:26:17]: uid: (500/domain) gid: (500/500) cmd: admin
[2006-12-17 22:26:17]: command not in docroot
(/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/admin)



chown /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/:

-rwxr-xr-x   1 root mailman 18215 2006-10-13 20:07 admin



virtual host config:

<VirtualHost *:*>
 SuexecUserGroup domain domain
 ServerName domain.com
 ServerAlias www.domain.com
 DocumentRoot /home/domain/public_html

 ErrorLog /home/domain/logs/error_log
 CustomLog /home/domain/logs/access_log combined

 ScriptAlias     /mailman/       /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
 Alias           /mailmanicons/  /usr/lib/mailman/icons/
 Alias           /pipermail/     /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/

<Directory /home/domain/public_html>
 Options ExecCGI FollowSymLinks Indexes
 AllowOverride All
 Allow from all
</Directory>

<Directory /home/domain/cgi-bin>
 Options ExecCGI FollowSymLinks Indexes
 AddHandler cgi-script .pl
 AllowOverride all
 Allow from all
</Directory>

<Directory /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin>
        Options ExecCGI FollowSymLinks Indexes
        order allow,deny
        allow from all
</Directory>

<Directory /usr/lib/mailman/icons>
        order allow,deny
        allow from all
</Directory>

<Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/>
        Options +FollowSymLinks
        order allow,deny
        allow from all
</Directory>

</VirtualHost>



I also found good description to this problem:

http://www.murrayc.com/blog/permalink/2005/04/28/suse-versus-mailman/



Configuration:

SuSE 9.3
Mailman Version: 2.1.5-5.3 Installed: 2.1.5-5.12



Thank You
James

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 19 18:37:17 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 09:37:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about postfix-to-mailman.py
In-Reply-To: <200612191559.kBJFxkvD012716@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612190937170218c62619eb@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:

>I am trying to decide whether to use the Debian/Ubuntu 2.1.5-9ubuntu4.1
>package or to use the 2.1.9 source for Mailman.


I would recommend installing from source, but I'm biased ...


>I see that Ubuntu
>comes with
>
>     postfix-to-mailman.py
>
>a Postfix transport pipe.  I do not see this in the 2.1.9 source.
>Is this transport pipe really needed?


No, it is not needed and may or may not be even desirable, depending on
your needs. In order for it to work well, mailman list addresses need
to be in their own domain. It is based on qmail-to-mailman.py and also
functionally similar to mm-handler, both of which are in the
distribution in the contrib/ directory.

The main advantage of these delivery methods is they enable delivery of
mail to Mailman 'automatically' without requiring aliases. However,
Postfix integrates well with Mailman, and Mailman provides automatic
updating of aliases for Postfix.


>Am I correct in assuming that I can use this python module even if
>I install Mailman from the 2.1.9 source?


Yes, you can. 

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 19 18:49:58 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 09:49:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to access Mailman cgi's via Web Server
In-Reply-To: <7d73ae7f0612190905p131c95ebtd720f67712c5411d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612190949580468685fb6ce@msapiro>

James Farren wrote:

>---
>When accessing: http://domain.com/mailman/admin
>
>
>suexec.log:
>
>[2006-12-17 22:26:17]: uid: (500/domain) gid: (500/500) cmd: admin
>[2006-12-17 22:26:17]: command not in docroot
>(/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/admin)
>
>
>
>chown /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/:
>
>-rwxr-xr-x   1 root mailman 18215 2006-10-13 20:07 admin
>
>
>
>virtual host config:
>
><VirtualHost *:*>
> SuexecUserGroup domain domain


I think the above may need to be

 SuexecUserGroup mailman mailman


In general, there are difficulties with SuExec and Mailman. See for
example, the posts at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-December/054801.html>
and
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-December/054802.html>
and other things they point to.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From clement.hermann at businessdecision.com  Tue Dec 19 18:59:46 2006
From: clement.hermann at businessdecision.com (Clement Hermann)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 18:59:46 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem hooking mailman up with sendmail
In-Reply-To: <538062.66054.qm@web30101.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <538062.66054.qm@web30101.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <45882892.5020103@businessdecision.com>


>> stupidmail4me a ?crit :
> VIRTUSER_DOMAIN is not useless, it still gets run
> through virtusertable. You need a VIRTUSER_DOMAIN so
> that it runs through a mailer (which becomes the
> "local" mailer, in this case, mm-handler).
>
>   
right, Though I usually use {W} for this purpose (the virtusertable is
checked weither you use local-host-names or virtuser_domain)?

Do you use a specific mailer macro to execute mailman without using
aliases ? I do not know the mm-handler you're talking about.

Is the mailertable used even when the domain is in virtuser_domain, then ?
>> I'm almost sure that you cannot have both, though.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> -- 
>> Cl?ment Hermann
>>
>>     
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
>   
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 3642254) is spam:
> /NOTE:/ This message has been trained as non-spam. If this is wrong,
> please correct the training as soon as possible.
> Spam
> <http://antispam.eolas-services.com/canit/b.php?c=s&i=3642254&m=b91d8971ab61>
> Not spam
> <http://antispam.eolas-services.com/canit/b.php?c=n&i=3642254&m=b91d8971ab61>
> Forget previous vote
> <http://antispam.eolas-services.com/canit/b.php?c=f&i=3642254&m=b91d8971ab61>

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 19 19:25:00 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 10:25:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW:  Wrong group
In-Reply-To: <A3EEB985B9693B4BB29A3B2D8C39AD0AD5E2DE@sea0620smail.abf.local>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612191025000765682068dd@msapiro>

Ralph Utbult wrote:
>
>My problem is partially solved - changed ID for data/aliases* to mail
>mail.


I assume you are saying that this allows mail delivery to Mailman to
work.


>It seems that the web interface is working (at least locally, on
>the mail server). I will try to access it from a windows client inside
>my LAN, but if that doesn't work, no sweat. 


The above change will have no effect on the web interface per se except
for list creation and removal. It will also affect bin/newlist and
bin/rmlist. The problem will be that with MTA='Postfix' these
processes will attempt to update data/aliases, and now they probably
won't have permission to do so.

bin/newlist will create the list, and then if not being run by 'mail'
or a user in the 'mail' group, will die.

bin/rmlist will die first.

The web create and remove will work (and not work) similarly.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 19 19:28:39 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 10:28:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem hooking mailman up with sendmail
In-Reply-To: <45882892.5020103@businessdecision.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612191028390281e3d712c0@msapiro>

Clement Hermann wrote:
>
>Do you use a specific mailer macro to execute mailman without using
>aliases ? I do not know the mm-handler you're talking about.


mm-handler is a script in the contrib/ directory of the distribution.
it is intended to be invoked by Sendmail to receive all mail addressed
to a specific domain (the one used for the Mailman list addresses) and
deliver it properly to Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jimjohnlists at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 19 19:56:35 2006
From: jimjohnlists at yahoo.com (Jim John)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 10:56:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman + postfix + cyrus + ldap
Message-ID: <957833.71670.qm@web55908.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hello. We have configured postfix + cyrus + ldap, but
would like to add mailman for mailing lists. Is that
possible with out setup? All delivery is through the
cyrus-tranport which puts mail in the cyrus mailbox.
We are not sure how mailman delivery would work in
this environment? Thanks.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Dec 19 20:07:17 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 13:07:17 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman + postfix + cyrus + ldap
In-Reply-To: <957833.71670.qm@web55908.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <957833.71670.qm@web55908.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00612191107w3dbe20b5u7771d040843bbe@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/19/06, Jim John <jimjohnlists at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello. We have configured postfix + cyrus + ldap, but
> would like to add mailman for mailing lists. Is that
> possible with out setup? All delivery is through the
> cyrus-tranport which puts mail in the cyrus mailbox.
> We are not sure how mailman delivery would work in
> this environment? Thanks.

The recommended way is to modify your postfix configuration to deliver
mail destined for mailman directly to mailman.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From stupidmail4me at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 19 20:20:00 2006
From: stupidmail4me at yahoo.com (stupidmail4me)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 11:20:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem hooking mailman up with sendmail
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612191028390281e3d712c0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <475274.89718.qm@web30115.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Precisely Mr Hermann. As such, it has to be invoked
via mailertable (for an entire domain) or via aliases
for specific addresses.

--- Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Clement Hermann wrote:
> >
> >Do you use a specific mailer macro to execute
> mailman without using
> >aliases ? I do not know the mm-handler you're
> talking about.
> 
> 
> mm-handler is a script in the contrib/ directory of
> the distribution.
> it is intended to be invoked by Sendmail to receive
> all mail addressed
> to a specific domain (the one used for the Mailman
> list addresses) and
> deliver it properly to Mailman.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is
> for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use
> your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From jimjohnlists at yahoo.com  Tue Dec 19 20:27:14 2006
From: jimjohnlists at yahoo.com (Jim John)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 11:27:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman + postfix + cyrus + ldap
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00612191107w3dbe20b5u7771d040843bbe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <800682.67921.qm@web55915.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

But can mailman put the mail into the cyrus mailboxes?
We do not have postfix mailboxes. Or does it send the
mail back to postfix for delivery using another agent
such as cyrus?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Dec 19 20:33:51 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 13:33:51 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman + postfix + cyrus + ldap
In-Reply-To: <800682.67921.qm@web55915.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <800682.67921.qm@web55915.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06240500c1adee834053@[10.0.1.11]>

At 11:27 AM -0800 12/19/06, Jim John wrote:

>  But can mailman put the mail into the cyrus mailboxes?

No.  Mailman is not a Local Delivery Agent.  Only the Cyrus LDA can 
put mail into the Cyrus mailboxes.  You would configure postfix to 
deliver mail for Mailman directly to Mailman, Mailman would then 
operate on it and then hand that back to postfix.  After that, 
postfix would transmit the mail to external recipients (if 
appropriate), hand off the mail to the Cyrus LDA to deliver mail for 
local recipients, etc....

>  We do not have postfix mailboxes.

There is no such thing as a "postfix mailbox".

>                                     Or does it send the
>  mail back to postfix for delivery using another agent
>  such as cyrus?

Bingo.  Mailman does not do all that other stuff.  It only does the 
stuff it needs to do internally, then depends on other programs to 
handle the other things.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From msapiro at value.net  Tue Dec 19 21:59:20 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 12:59:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to access Mailman cgi's via Web Server
In-Reply-To: <7d73ae7f0612191251g1391c0d7u901683282636222b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612191259200390b9c0ae7a@msapiro>

James Farren wrote:
>
>Doesn't work. this is what I get.
>
>[2006-12-19 21:49:27]: uid: (72/mailman) gid: (67/67) cmd: admin
>[2006-12-19 21:49:27]: cannot run as forbidden uid (72/admin)
>
>
>I am out of clues...


I assume the above refers to:

>> > SuexecUserGroup domain domain
>>
>>
>> I think the above may need to be
>>
>> SuexecUserGroup mailman mailman


>This is very general problem that should be addressed and looked into.


The issue is that there are problems trying to run Mailman under
SuExec. The Mailman project doesn't recommend this. Once again see the
posts linked below and the things they link to.


>> In general, there are difficulties with SuExec and Mailman. See for
>> example, the posts at
>> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-December/054801.html>
>> and
>> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-December/054802.html>
>> and other things they point to.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From jwblist3 at olympus.net  Tue Dec 19 22:34:40 2006
From: jwblist3 at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 13:34:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail delivery notification
In-Reply-To: <p06240501c1a90d51cf0d@[10.0.1.11]>
Message-ID: <C1AD9AF0.10A99%jwblist3@olympus.net>

On 12/15/06 6:45 PM, "Brad Knowles" <brad at shub-internet.org> wrote:

> At 10:48 AM -0300 12/15/06, Andres Tarallo wrote:
> 
>>  We need to receive a notification that the suscribers had received the mail.
>>  We where thinking in adding a header that makes the mail client return an
>>  automatic answer.
> 
> You can put in a header that some mail clients will recognize, and
> which may be configured to allow a return receipt to be generated.
> However, not all clients understand that concept at all, there have
> been multiple different attempts and standards to try to achieve this
> goal, and some of those multiple attempts are mutually incompatible.

Not to mention that it could be the visiting 8 year old grandson who sees
the message, tells the MUA to return the receipt (or the MUA options are set
so that is implicit), then deletes the message.

Not only does the sender not control the automated parts of the path, the
sender doesn't control the human element at the receiving end.

  --John



From rb at islandnet.com  Tue Dec 19 22:35:13 2006
From: rb at islandnet.com (Ron Brogden)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 13:35:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem tracking down discard reason
Message-ID: <200612191335.13522.rb@islandnet.com>

Hello.  I have a list admin who is attempting to legitimately post to a 
Mailman list (version 2.1.9) but Mailman is discarding the message:

Dec 18 12:42:42 2006 (168) Message discarded, msgid: 
<00f101c722e4$ce2ad570$3200a8c0 at SKIPPER>

Here is the exim log showing the message arriving (domain changed of course):

2006-12-18 12:42:41 1GwPJo-000MhT-Jp <= test at example.com
H=mail.example.com (example.com) [127.0.0.1] P=esmtp S=54593 
id=00f101c722e4$ce2ad570$3200a8c0 at SKIPPER T="Subject Line Here"

The administrator gets a discard notice but there is no mention of 
specifically why the message was discarded.  Is there any option anyone is 
aware of to make logging of discards more verbose?  

Looking in the code, the discard error appears to get logged here:

Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py (line 163)

except Errors.DiscardMessage:
                # Throw the message away; we need do nothing else with it.
                syslog('vette', 'Message discarded, msgid: %s',
                       msg.get('message-id', 'n/a'))
                return 0

Is there any attribute that I can use with the msg.get method (or any other 
method for that matter) to add in a note as to why the message was actually 
discarded?

Any help appreciated.

Cheers,

Ron

-- 
islandnet.com
http://www.islandnet.com
support at islandnet.com
ph: (250) 383-0096 fax: (250) 383-6698

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 20 01:15:07 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 16:15:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem tracking down discard reason
In-Reply-To: <200612191335.13522.rb@islandnet.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006121916150703286f8ca54f@msapiro>

Ron Brogden wrote:

>Hello.  I have a list admin who is attempting to legitimately post to a 
>Mailman list (version 2.1.9) but Mailman is discarding the message:
>
>Dec 18 12:42:42 2006 (168) Message discarded, msgid: 
><00f101c722e4$ce2ad570$3200a8c0 at SKIPPER>
<snip>
>Is there any option anyone is 
>aware of to make logging of discards more verbose?  


No. For a list of possible sources of the discard, see
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-February/049331.html>


>Looking in the code, the discard error appears to get logged here:
>
>Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py (line 163)
>
>except Errors.DiscardMessage:
>                # Throw the message away; we need do nothing else with it.
>                syslog('vette', 'Message discarded, msgid: %s',
>                       msg.get('message-id', 'n/a'))
>                return 0
>
>Is there any attribute that I can use with the msg.get method (or any other 
>method for that matter) to add in a note as to why the message was actually 
>discarded?


The Handlers that raise DiscardMessage don't provide a reason, and
there's not much help in the message or metadata.

The easiest thing for you to do would be to add the Handler to the
message. Then, it would be fairly simple to narrow things down
although it still isn't definitive as both header_filter_rules and
mm_cfg.KNOWN_SPAMMERS are processed by SpamDetect and Moderate can
discard a message from a moderated member with
member_moderation_action of discard, or a non-member in
discard_these_nonmembers or a non-member with generic_nonmember_action
of discard, but at least this will narrow it down.

In the above code in IncommingRunner, change

                syslog('vette', 'Message discarded, msgid: %s',
                       msg.get('message-id', 'n/a'))

to

                syslog('vette', 'Message discarded by %s, msgid: %s',
                       handler, msg.get('message-id', 'n/a'))

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 20 01:24:53 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 16:24:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to access Mailman cgi's via Web Server
In-Reply-To: <7d73ae7f0612191327idac3976gd4bfa248d045ba64@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612191624530046e3d711e3@msapiro>

James Farren wrote:
>
>If not running under SuExec, how it is supposed to run on Name Based Virtual
>Host -apache2 based machine?


Since User and Group don't work in this environment, either configure
Mailman's CGI wrappers to expect the group that Apache runs them as
without SuExec, or follow some of the references that I provided or
see the FAQ at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.017.htp>
and make SuExec work.

If you do the latter and find the FAQ lacking, please update it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Dec 20 03:07:00 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 11:07:00 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  problem tracking down discard reason
In-Reply-To: <200612191335.13522.rb@islandnet.com>
References: <200612191335.13522.rb@islandnet.com>
Message-ID: <873b7bpbgb.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Ron Brogden writes:

 > The administrator gets a discard notice but there is no mention of 
 > specifically why the message was discarded.  Is there any option anyone is 
 > aware of to make logging of discards more verbose?

Unlike the Hold exception, the Discard exception contains no
information about why it was raised.  As a workaround you can go
through your filters and change them to Hold instead of Discard.
Mailman will never discard anything unless the administrator has
authorized it.

Personally, I never use an automatic discard until I have several
thousand messages experience with the rule with no false positives.

 > Is there any attribute that I can use with the msg.get method (or any other 
 > method for that matter) to add in a note as to why the message was actually 
 > discarded?

I don't think so, for the reason given above.


From greg.wilkinson at acsalaska.net  Wed Dec 20 05:55:47 2006
From: greg.wilkinson at acsalaska.net (Greg Wilkinson)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 19:55:47 -0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Retrieving member list
Message-ID: <4588C253.4070200@acsalaska.net>

There are many messages on this topic, however I haven't found the 
answer to my particular situation. 

I am a list administrator but I am not a member of the list.  The list 
viewing option is set to all members.  When I send the email command 
"who <admpassword>" to the list, it is rejected with the "You are not 
allowed to retrieve the list membership." error message.  One would 
think the list administrator would have access to the list whether on 
the list or not.

What would I need to do to retrieve the list as administrator?


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 20 06:17:57 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 21:17:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Retrieving member list
In-Reply-To: <4588C253.4070200@acsalaska.net>
Message-ID: <PC17602006121921175700626aacc937@msapiro>

Greg Wilkinson wrote:
>
>I am a list administrator but I am not a member of the list.  The list 
>viewing option is set to all members.  When I send the email command 
>"who <admpassword>" to the list, it is rejected with the "You are not 
>allowed to retrieve the list membership." error message.  One would 
>think the list administrator would have access to the list whether on 
>the list or not.


Yes, that's true, and you can, but when the roster is restricted to
'members' you must supply a member address. This is probably a bug,
but you can get the email list as admin in this case with

  who <adminpassword> address=<any_members_address>

You can also get the same list at

  http://example.com/mailman/roster/listname

or whatever that looks like in your installation, but neither of these
lists contains 'hidden' members.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>
for ways to get the full list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From kelly.terry.jones at gmail.com  Wed Dec 20 15:19:17 2006
From: kelly.terry.jones at gmail.com (Kelly Jones)
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 07:19:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archiving only certain topics and/or the "default"
	topic
Message-ID: <26face530612200619x379c5603t609993d7d8d27d02@mail.gmail.com>

I admin a mailing list that receives two types of messages:

1. Important human-typed messages that should be archived

2. Transient machine-generated messages that people may want to read,
but which lose value rapidly, and, therefore, shouldn't be archived.

I've set up topics so that all the transient messages have their own
topic (they're machine-generated so the subjects always match known
regexps).

Can I set up mailman/pipermail to not archive the transient messages,
and only archive the important ones?

In other words, archive messages that match no topic, but don't
archive the messages that do match a topic?

-- 
We're just a Bunch Of Regular Guys, a collective group that's trying
to understand and assimilate technology. We feel that resistance to
new ideas and technology is unwise and ultimately futile.

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Dec 20 16:39:27 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 07:39:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archiving only certain topics and/or the
	"default"topic
In-Reply-To: <26face530612200619x379c5603t609993d7d8d27d02@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612200739270312e8e526d3@msapiro>

Kelly Jones wrote:

>I admin a mailing list that receives two types of messages:
>
>1. Important human-typed messages that should be archived
>
>2. Transient machine-generated messages that people may want to read,
>but which lose value rapidly, and, therefore, shouldn't be archived.
>
>I've set up topics so that all the transient messages have their own
>topic (they're machine-generated so the subjects always match known
>regexps).


Don't do this with topics. The topics may be OK for other reasons, but
for archiving there is a better way (using topics to control archiving
will require code modification or a custom handler).

Have your machine generated messages include an X-No-Archive: header
and they won't be archived. Headers that will work to not archive
messages are

X-No-Archive: Yes
X-No-Archive: any value
X-Archive: No

They are not case sensitive.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Wed Dec 20 21:16:50 2006
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 14:16:50 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Remove "/mailman" from URL?
Message-ID: <200612202016.kBKKGoLn006967@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

I am not sure if this is a Mailman question or an Apache 2 question.
I have Mailman 2.1.5+ (Ubuntu) installed on a test machine.  The URL
for web pages is

     https://lists-dev.it.example.com/mailman

Since this machine will only be used for Mailman, we want to eliminate
the "/mailman" piece of the URL.  I am not an Apache expert, but I
could not find a way of accomplishing this.  Is there a way to do this?
Thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994


From josh at jbdesign.net  Wed Dec 20 21:49:26 2006
From: josh at jbdesign.net (Josh Baird)
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 15:49:26 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Copying Lists
Message-ID: <44295.12.169.54.3.1166647766.squirrel@webmail.jbdesign.net>

Is there a way to copy LISTA to LISTB with the exact same settings?  I
need to make an identical copy of one list (the subscribers aren't really
nessecery, but the settings are).

Thanks,

jb


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Wed Dec 20 22:07:11 2006
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 22:07:11 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Copying Lists
In-Reply-To: <44295.12.169.54.3.1166647766.squirrel@webmail.jbdesign.net>
References: <44295.12.169.54.3.1166647766.squirrel@webmail.jbdesign.net>
Message-ID: <20061220210710.GI26683@charite.de>

* Josh Baird <josh at jbdesign.net>:
> Is there a way to copy LISTA to LISTB with the exact same settings?  I
> need to make an identical copy of one list (the subscribers aren't really
> nessecery, but the settings are).

#!/bin/bash
# $1 oldlistname
# $2 newlistname
list_members $1 | add_members -r - $2
config_list -o $1.config $1
config_list -i $1.config $2


-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                    send no mail to plonk at charite.de

From jed at outliersolutions.com  Wed Dec 20 23:05:17 2006
From: jed at outliersolutions.com (Jed Herzog)
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 14:05:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Basic Question,
	I want only the admin to be able to send emails to the list
Message-ID: <C3F22C6A-A1C8-41EA-85A7-39CA972C27F1@outliersolutions.com>

Hello List,

I have what I hope is a very basic question.  I am setting up a list  
using Mailman for the first time.  I want only the list admin to be  
able to send emails to the list.  I know I can set all the  
subscribers to be moderated but then the admin could be swamped with  
requests to send email that they will never want to send.  Can I set  
up mailman to deny subscribers the right to send email to the list?

Thank you in advance,
Jed Herzog


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec 21 01:09:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 16:09:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Remove "/mailman" from URL?
In-Reply-To: <200612202016.kBKKGoLn006967@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC17602006122016092808126cc13448@msapiro>

Barry Finkel wrote:

>I am not sure if this is a Mailman question or an Apache 2 question.
>I have Mailman 2.1.5+ (Ubuntu) installed on a test machine.  The URL
>for web pages is
>
>     https://lists-dev.it.example.com/mailman
>
>Since this machine will only be used for Mailman, we want to eliminate
>the "/mailman" piece of the URL.  I am not an Apache expert, but I
>could not find a way of accomplishing this.  Is there a way to do this?


There are two parts to this - making Mailman generate the URL and
making Apache do the right thing with it.

For the Mailman part, you need

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/'

in mm_cfg.py, and then you need to run fix_url on all existing lists to
update the lists' hidden web_page_url attribute. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.069.htp>.

For the Apache part, you have something like

ScriptAlias /mailman/       /path/to/mailman/cgi-bin/

and you may have

RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$   https://example.com/mailman/listinfo

These need to be changed to

ScriptAlias /       /path/to/mailman/cgi-bin/

and

RedirectMatch ^[/]+$   https://example.com/listinfo


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec 21 01:17:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 16:17:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Basic Question,
	I want only the admin to be able to send emails to the list
In-Reply-To: <C3F22C6A-A1C8-41EA-85A7-39CA972C27F1@outliersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061220161701064026467be1@msapiro>

Jed Herzog wrote:
>
>I have what I hope is a very basic question.  I am setting up a list  
>using Mailman for the first time.  I want only the list admin to be  
>able to send emails to the list.  I know I can set all the  
>subscribers to be moderated but then the admin could be swamped with  
>requests to send email that they will never want to send.  Can I set  
>up mailman to deny subscribers the right to send email to the list?


If you set member_moderation_action to reject or discard, the moderator
won't see the posts. The normal way is to set Reject and set an
appropriate member_moderation_notice. These settings are on Privacy
options...->Sender filters. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp>
for more about setting up this kind of list.
	
-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From josh at jbdesign.net  Thu Dec 21 02:43:14 2006
From: josh at jbdesign.net (Josh Baird)
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 20:43:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Copying Lists
In-Reply-To: <20061220210710.GI26683@charite.de>
References: <44295.12.169.54.3.1166647766.squirrel@webmail.jbdesign.net>
	<20061220210710.GI26683@charite.de>
Message-ID: <62409.12.169.54.115.1166665394.squirrel@webmail.jbdesign.net>

Thanks, I should have thought of that!

jb

> * Josh Baird <josh at jbdesign.net>:
>> Is there a way to copy LISTA to LISTB with the exact same settings?  I
>> need to make an identical copy of one list (the subscribers aren't
>> really
>> nessecery, but the settings are).
>
> #!/bin/bash
> # $1 oldlistname
> # $2 newlistname
> list_members $1 | add_members -r - $2
> config_list -o $1.config $1
> config_list -i $1.config $2
>
>
> --
> Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)
> Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
> Charite - Universit??tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450
> 570-155
> Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450
> 570-962
> IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                    send no mail to
> plonk at charite.de
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/josh%40jbdesign.net
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


-- 
Josh Baird
JB Design - Professional Web Devel. & IT Consulting
Phone: (859) 583-4214
Fax: (859) 239-0031
http://www.jbdesign.net


From stanley at chen.com.hk  Thu Dec 21 09:11:34 2006
From: stanley at chen.com.hk (Stanley Chen)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 16:11:34 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restarting Mail Queues
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061220161701064026467be1@msapiro>
References: <PC176020061220161701064026467be1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <458A41B6.1090505@chen.com.hk>

We got error: "All recipients refused: (111. 'Connection Refused'), and
I think we have fixed the error by increased the limit in "load average"
under /etc/sendmail.cf.

Is mailman going to retry again to send those messages which could not
be sent? Or any command to initiate that? Or we have to send the message
again.

From josh at jbdesign.net  Thu Dec 21 16:13:38 2006
From: josh at jbdesign.net (Josh Baird)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 10:13:38 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce stats
Message-ID: <35924.12.169.54.3.1166714018.squirrel@webmail.jbdesign.net>

Is there a way to see bounce statistics?  I am interested in seeing the
number of bounces per message, and maybe the contents of the bounce
message?

Thanks


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec 21 17:48:17 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 08:48:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restarting Mail Queues
In-Reply-To: <458A41B6.1090505@chen.com.hk>
Message-ID: <PC176020061221084817099307517a12@msapiro>

Stanley Chen wrote:

>We got error: "All recipients refused: (111. 'Connection Refused'), and
>I think we have fixed the error by increased the limit in "load average"
>under /etc/sendmail.cf.
>
>Is mailman going to retry again to send those messages which could not
>be sent? Or any command to initiate that? Or we have to send the message
>again.


When you start a new thread by replying to an old message, your message
is archived in the previous thread, causing various problems for
people reading the archives. It is much better to start a new thread
as a new message, not as a reply.

All SMTP errors except 'permanent failures' are retried. Permanent
failures are those with status 5xx except 552. Retry occurs at
intervals of DELIVERY_RETRY_WAIT (default 1 hour) for a maximum of
DELIVERY_RETRY_PERIOD (default 5 days).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Dec 21 17:59:48 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 08:59:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce stats
In-Reply-To: <35924.12.169.54.3.1166714018.squirrel@webmail.jbdesign.net>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612210859480305ae44f261@msapiro>

Josh Baird wrote:

>Is there a way to see bounce statistics?  I am interested in seeing the
>number of bounces per message, and maybe the contents of the bounce
>message?


You would need to look at the 'bounce' log for bounce information and
perhaps correlate this with information from the 'post' and/or 'smtp'
logs. Presumably, you could create some kind of script to do this.

This will enable you to see the number of bounces and the bouncing
addresses. The only actual bounce message you see without modifying
bounce processing code are unrecognized bounces when
bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner is yes, and the disabling
bounce when bounce_notify_owner_on_disable is yes.	

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From clement.hermann at businessdecision.com  Fri Dec 22 11:26:50 2006
From: clement.hermann at businessdecision.com (Clement Hermann)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 11:26:50 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem hooking mailman up with sendmail
In-Reply-To: <475274.89718.qm@web30115.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <475274.89718.qm@web30115.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <458BB2EA.4050805@businessdecision.com>


stupidmail4me a ?crit :
> Precisely Mr Hermann. As such, it has to be invoked
> via mailertable (for an entire domain) or via aliases
> for specific addresses.
>
>   
mhmm.. just took a look at this piece of code, it could be just what I
need to ease the burden of creating new lists, thanks  :)

I'd just need to patch it a bit to support a virtual domain set up (one
instance of mailman per domain).

Anyway, regarding your problem, it might be a wrong variable in the
mm-handler, or maybe you forgot to add the virtusertable feature to your
.mc file (and then the virtuser_domain won't be taken into account by
sendmail). It's difficult to say without reviewing all the relevant
parts of your configuration.

Regards,

-- 
Clement Hermann (nodens)

From hammond at txcorp.com  Fri Dec 22 23:23:55 2006
From: hammond at txcorp.com (Anne Hammond)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 15:23:55 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not archiving
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612221517160.4209@volt.txcorp.com>

I moved a mailing list from another host.

First on the target host, created a similar list, then used
add_members -f {from list_members on old host} list name.

Then I tarred the archives from the old host,
        mv'd /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/list to list.save
        untarred the archives into the same list name

The top level directory is
drwxrwsr-x   36 apache  mailman 4096 Dec 22 11:51 list-users

The next level down is owned by mailman.mailman.

In the web interface, the archiving option is set to yes.

How can I troubleshoot?  I've read the FAQ but didn't find a
recipe for migrating to another host (perhaps I should write it :)

Thanks in advance.

Anne


Anne M. Hammond - Systems / Network Administration - Tech-X Corp
                   hammond_at_txcorp.com 720-974-1840

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 23 01:08:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 16:08:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not archiving
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612221517160.4209@volt.txcorp.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061222160808062533e57fb9@msapiro>

Anne Hammond wrote:
>
>How can I troubleshoot?  I've read the FAQ but didn't find a
>recipe for migrating to another host (perhaps I should write it :)


Are there entries in any of Mailman's qfiles directories - particularly
archive/ and shunt/? Are other lists on this this installation
archiving? What's in Mailman's 'error' log?

The preferred way to move archives is to move the
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file and then run
'bin/arch --wipe listname', although this can have problems too,
particularly if the archives go back a long way.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hammond at txcorp.com  Sat Dec 23 01:54:57 2006
From: hammond at txcorp.com (Anne Hammond)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 17:54:57 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not archiving
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061222160808062533e57fb9@msapiro>
References: <PC176020061222160808062533e57fb9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612221742430.4209@volt.txcorp.com>

Thanks for the message and hints.  The archives go back to 2003.

On Fri, 22 Dec 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Anne Hammond wrote:
>>
>> How can I troubleshoot?  I've read the FAQ but didn't find a
>> recipe for migrating to another host (perhaps I should write it :)
>
>
> Are there entries in any of Mailman's qfiles directories - particularly
> archive/ and shunt/? Are other lists on this this installation
> archiving? What's in Mailman's 'error' log?
>
There are no messages in archive/ or shunt/

Other lists are definitely archiving right away.

There is nothing in /var/log/mailman/error for this email list.

I could check bin/arch --wipe listname.

Any other suggestions, list??

Thanks so much.

> The preferred way to move archives is to move the
> archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file and then run
> 'bin/arch --wipe listname', although this can have problems too,
> particularly if the archives go back a long way.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 23 02:12:40 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 17:12:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not archiving
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612221742430.4209@volt.txcorp.com>
Message-ID: <PC1760200612221712400437d8ddc51d@msapiro>

Anne Hammond wrote:
>>
>There are no messages in archive/ or shunt/
>
>Other lists are definitely archiving right away.


OK. Archiving in general works and ArchRunner is running (processing
the archive/ queue). No messages are shunted for archiving exceptions.


>There is nothing in /var/log/mailman/error for this email list.


What is in /var/log/mailman/error? An error might not explicitly
identify the list.


>I could check bin/arch --wipe listname.


Are new messages being added to the
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file?

It seems like a permissions issue, but that should normally result in
error log entries and shunted messages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 23 02:17:30 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 17:17:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not archiving
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612221712400437d8ddc51d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC176020061222171730050086237e52@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>It seems like a permissions issue, but that should normally result in
>error log entries and shunted messages.


Have there been many posts to the list or only a few? Is it possible
they all had X-No-Archive: or X-Archive: no headers?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hammond at txcorp.com  Sat Dec 23 02:31:09 2006
From: hammond at txcorp.com (Anne Hammond)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 18:31:09 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not archiving
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612221712400437d8ddc51d@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200612221712400437d8ddc51d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612221816100.4209@volt.txcorp.com>

The one thing I didn't do was restart mailman.

The top level directory is owned by apache.mailman--Do I need
to restart apache??

Thanks for your message.

See other answers inline below.

The list that has been migrated is vorpal-users.

NOT WORKING:
[root at fusion vorpal-users]# ls -la
total 56
drwxrwsr-x   2 apache  mailman  4096 Dec 22 18:25 .
drwxrwsr-x  61 root    mailman  4096 Dec 15 00:15 ..
-rw-rw----   1 apache  mailman 13789 Dec 22 16:21 config.pck
-rw-rw----   1 apache  mailman 13237 Dec 22 16:21 config.pck.last
-rw-rw----   1 mailman mailman  4632 Dec 22 14:12 digest.mbox
-rw-rw----   1 mailman mailman   132 Dec 22 14:29 pending.pck
-rw-rw-r--   1 apache  mailman    24 Dec 22 16:21 request.pck

WORKING:
[root at fusion ucm-devel]# ls -la
total 20
drwxrwsr-x   2 apache  mailman 4096 Dec 22 17:48 .
drwxrwsr-x  61 root    mailman 4096 Dec 15 00:15 ..
-rw-rw----   1 mailman mailman 3940 Dec 22 17:48 config.pck
-rw-rw----   1 mailman mailman 3940 Dec 22 17:48 config.pck.last
-rw-rw----   1 mailman mailman 1805 Dec 22 17:48 digest.mbox
[root at fusion ucm-devel]#

Both messages sent to this list today are in digest.mbox.


Anne M. Hammond - Systems / Network Administration - Tech-X Corp
                   hammond_at_txcorp.com 720-974-1840

On Fri, 22 Dec 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Anne Hammond wrote:
>>>
>> There are no messages in archive/ or shunt/
>>
>> Other lists are definitely archiving right away.
>
>
> OK. Archiving in general works and ArchRunner is running (processing
> the archive/ queue). No messages are shunted for archiving exceptions.
>
>
>> There is nothing in /var/log/mailman/error for this email list.
>
>
> What is in /var/log/mailman/error? An error might not explicitly
> identify the list.
>
var/log/mailman/error:
Dec 17 09:33:24 2006 (19861) admin.py access for non-existent list: 
rm05submit
Dec 17 17:13:52 2006 (22929) No such list "mapa-users":
Dec 17 18:39:15 2006 (23426) No such list "farsight-users":
Dec 17 23:11:00 2006 (25598) No such list "mapa-users":
Dec 18 10:26:42 2006 (31034) No such list "farsight-users":
Dec 18 20:32:43 2006 (14205) No such list "farsight-users":
Dec 18 20:43:24 2006 (14324) No such list "farsight-users":
Dec 19 10:09:55 2006 (20409) No such list "mapa-users":
Dec 20 20:50:12 2006 (22385) No such list "mapa-users":
Dec 20 20:50:54 2006 (22390) No such list "farsight-users":
Dec 21 08:36:15 2006 (27762) No such list "facets-svn":
Dec 21 08:36:41 2006 (27766) No such list "facets-svn":
Dec 22 05:09:50 2006 (5023) No such list "mapa-users":
Dec 22 11:24:00 2006 (7790) No such list "vorpal-devel":

Dec 22 11:36:55 2006 (7960) No such list "vorpal-devel":

Dec 22 11:38:11 2006 (7974) No such list "vorpal-devel":

(hmm--why the blank lines??)

>
>> I could check bin/arch --wipe listname.
>
>
> Are new messages being added to the
> archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file?
>
> It seems like a permissions issue, but that should normally result in
> error log entries and shunted messages.
>


> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

From hammond at txcorp.com  Sat Dec 23 02:34:16 2006
From: hammond at txcorp.com (Anne Hammond)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 18:34:16 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not archiving
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061222171730050086237e52@msapiro>
References: <PC176020061222171730050086237e52@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612221831390.4209@volt.txcorp.com>

Only 2 posts.

I looked through the headers, and there are not options
not to archive.


Anne M. Hammond - Systems / Network Administration - Tech-X Corp
                   hammond_at_txcorp.com 720-974-1840

On Fri, 22 Dec 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> It seems like a permissions issue, but that should normally result in
>> error log entries and shunted messages.
>
>
> Have there been many posts to the list or only a few? Is it possible
> they all had X-No-Archive: or X-Archive: no headers?
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 23 03:25:38 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 18:25:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not archiving
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612221816100.4209@volt.txcorp.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061222182538081259615f12@msapiro>

Anne Hammond wrote:

>The one thing I didn't do was restart mailman.
>
>The top level directory is owned by apache.mailman--Do I need
>to restart apache??


Apache has nothing to do with archiving. The lists/listname directory
is owned by apache because the list was created via the web interface.

Restarting Mailman should not be required either.




>Both messages sent to this list today are in digest.mbox.


What about archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox/vorpal-users.mbox? Are
the two messages there?


>> It seems like a permissions issue, but that should normally result in
>> error log entries and shunted messages.


Check permissions and ownership on the entire
archives/private/vorpal-users/ and archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox/
directories and subordinates and compare with the
archives/private/ucm-devel/ and archives/private/ucm-devel.mbox/
directories and subordinates.

You might also try running 'bin/check_perms'

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 23 03:40:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 18:40:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not archiving
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612221816100.4209@volt.txcorp.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006122218404101405df57e35@msapiro>

Anne Hammond wrote:
>>
>var/log/mailman/error:
>Dec 17 09:33:24 2006 (19861) admin.py access for non-existent list: 
>rm05submit
>Dec 17 17:13:52 2006 (22929) No such list "mapa-users":
>Dec 17 18:39:15 2006 (23426) No such list "farsight-users":
>Dec 17 23:11:00 2006 (25598) No such list "mapa-users":
>Dec 18 10:26:42 2006 (31034) No such list "farsight-users":
>Dec 18 20:32:43 2006 (14205) No such list "farsight-users":
>Dec 18 20:43:24 2006 (14324) No such list "farsight-users":
>Dec 19 10:09:55 2006 (20409) No such list "mapa-users":
>Dec 20 20:50:12 2006 (22385) No such list "mapa-users":
>Dec 20 20:50:54 2006 (22390) No such list "farsight-users":
>Dec 21 08:36:15 2006 (27762) No such list "facets-svn":
>Dec 21 08:36:41 2006 (27766) No such list "facets-svn":
>Dec 22 05:09:50 2006 (5023) No such list "mapa-users":
>Dec 22 11:24:00 2006 (7790) No such list "vorpal-devel":
>
>Dec 22 11:36:55 2006 (7960) No such list "vorpal-devel":
>
>Dec 22 11:38:11 2006 (7974) No such list "vorpal-devel":
>
>(hmm--why the blank lines??)


The various CGI scripts that write that log message are not consistent
in the format. admindb, options, private, rmlist and subscribe add an
extra newline; confirm, edithtml, listinfo and roster do not.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hammond at txcorp.com  Sat Dec 23 04:36:02 2006
From: hammond at txcorp.com (Anne Hammond)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 20:36:02 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not archiving
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061222182538081259615f12@msapiro>
References: <PC176020061222182538081259615f12@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612222025090.4209@volt.txcorp.com>

The two messages are in 
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox.

Now here is the problem.  I thought this list was created today, but
it turns out that it was created  9.May.2006.  There are 9 messages
in vorpal-users.mbox that were there before, with the 2 from today
at the end.

The 9 earlier messages are not in the archives.  They don't need
to be.

Can I hand edit this file and maybe run a cleanarch?


Anne M. Hammond - Systems / Network Administration - Tech-X Corp
                   hammond_at_txcorp.com 720-974-1840

On Fri, 22 Dec 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Anne Hammond wrote:
>
>> The one thing I didn't do was restart mailman.
>>
>> The top level directory is owned by apache.mailman--Do I need
>> to restart apache??
>
>
> Apache has nothing to do with archiving. The lists/listname directory
> is owned by apache because the list was created via the web interface.
>
> Restarting Mailman should not be required either.
>
>
>
>
>> Both messages sent to this list today are in digest.mbox.
>
>
> What about archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox/vorpal-users.mbox? Are
> the two messages there?
>
>
>>> It seems like a permissions issue, but that should normally result in
>>> error log entries and shunted messages.
>
>
> Check permissions and ownership on the entire
> archives/private/vorpal-users/ and archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox/
> directories and subordinates and compare with the
> archives/private/ucm-devel/ and archives/private/ucm-devel.mbox/
> directories and subordinates.
>
> You might also try running 'bin/check_perms'
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 23 05:28:40 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 20:28:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not archiving
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612222025090.4209@volt.txcorp.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006122220284001565733a184@msapiro>

Anne Hammond wrote:

>The two messages are in 
>/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox.


/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox or
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox/vorpal-users.mbox?

/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox should be a
directory that contains the
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox/vorpal-users.mbox
file.

Assuming that's what you meant, that means that archiving to
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox/vorpal-users.mbox
is working, but pipermail archiving is not.


>Now here is the problem.  I thought this list was created today, but
>it turns out that it was created  9.May.2006.  There are 9 messages
>in vorpal-users.mbox that were there before, with the 2 from today
>at the end.
>
>The 9 earlier messages are not in the archives.  They don't need
>to be.


I'm guessing that the 9 messages were in the pipermail archive but were
lost when you moved over the other archive.


>Can I hand edit this file and maybe run a cleanarch?


Here's my suggestion.

Get the archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox/vorpal-users.mbox file from
the other machine and append either the two or the eleven messages to
it so you have one
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox/vorpal-users.mbox
file with all the messages you want archived.

Run bin/cleanarch with the '-n' option and the overall .mbox as input.
If it gives any "Unix-From line changed:" messages, then move the
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox/vorpal-users.mbox
file and rerun bin/cleanarch without '-n' to create a 'cleaned'
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox/vorpal-users.mbox
file.

Then run 'bin/arch --wipe vorpal-users' to remove and rebuild the
pipermail archive.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp>
for more info about this. Be aware, that it's possible that the
bin/arch --wipe will cause messages to be assigned different numbers
in the archive, thus invalidating saved URLs pointing to archived
messages, but I gather that at least the host portion of the URL
changed anyway.

Once you have rebuilt the archive in this way, it should work from now
on.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hammond at txcorp.com  Sat Dec 23 05:44:24 2006
From: hammond at txcorp.com (Anne Hammond)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 21:44:24 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not archiving
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006122220284001565733a184@msapiro>
References: <PC17602006122220284001565733a184@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612222138520.4209@volt.txcorp.com>

I will implement your latest suggestion.

Here is what I found out. The new email list was implemented
with Quarterly archiving.  The old email list had Monthly
archiving.

So when you looked at the web page for the current month,
the messages from today were in "Fourth quarter 2006 Archives
by thread"--not in December 2006.

So the 2 messages from today  were being archived, but by a
different schedule and to a different directory.

I will change the archiving option to Montly for the new archive,
and then sort through what you have suggested.


Anne M. Hammond - Systems / Network Administration - Tech-X Corp
                   hammond_at_txcorp.com 720-974-1840

On Fri, 22 Dec 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Anne Hammond wrote:
>
>> The two messages are in
>> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox.
>
>
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox or
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox/vorpal-users.mbox?
>
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox should be a
> directory that contains the
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox/vorpal-users.mbox
> file.
>
> Assuming that's what you meant, that means that archiving to
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox/vorpal-users.mbox
> is working, but pipermail archiving is not.
>
>
>> Now here is the problem.  I thought this list was created today, but
>> it turns out that it was created  9.May.2006.  There are 9 messages
>> in vorpal-users.mbox that were there before, with the 2 from today
>> at the end.
>>
>> The 9 earlier messages are not in the archives.  They don't need
>> to be.
>
>
> I'm guessing that the 9 messages were in the pipermail archive but were
> lost when you moved over the other archive.
>
>
>> Can I hand edit this file and maybe run a cleanarch?
>
>
> Here's my suggestion.
>
> Get the archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox/vorpal-users.mbox file from
> the other machine and append either the two or the eleven messages to
> it so you have one
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox/vorpal-users.mbox
> file with all the messages you want archived.
>
> Run bin/cleanarch with the '-n' option and the overall .mbox as input.
> If it gives any "Unix-From line changed:" messages, then move the
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox/vorpal-users.mbox
> file and rerun bin/cleanarch without '-n' to create a 'cleaned'
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox/vorpal-users.mbox
> file.
>
> Then run 'bin/arch --wipe vorpal-users' to remove and rebuild the
> pipermail archive.
>
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp>
> for more info about this. Be aware, that it's possible that the
> bin/arch --wipe will cause messages to be assigned different numbers
> in the archive, thus invalidating saved URLs pointing to archived
> messages, but I gather that at least the host portion of the URL
> changed anyway.
>
> Once you have rebuilt the archive in this way, it should work from now
> on.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

From hammond at txcorp.com  Sat Dec 23 05:54:12 2006
From: hammond at txcorp.com (Anne Hammond)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 21:54:12 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not archiving
In-Reply-To: <PC17602006122220284001565733a184@msapiro>
References: <PC17602006122220284001565733a184@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612222149580.4209@volt.txcorp.com>

Since 
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox/vorpal-users.mbox
(thanks for the correction)
contains only the 11 messages from the 2006-December archive, what
will happen to all these dirs from
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users:



drwxrwsr-x    2 mailman mailman    4096 Sep 16 07:46 2003-August
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman mailman    7134 Sep 16 07:46 2003-August.txt
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman mailman    2687 Sep 16 07:46 2003-August.txt.gz
drwxrwsr-x    2 mailman mailman    4096 Sep 16 07:46 2003-December
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman mailman   13200 Sep 16 07:46 2003-December.txt
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman mailman    3794 Sep 16 07:46 2003-December.txt.gz
drwxrwsr-x    2 mailman mailman    4096 Sep 16 07:46 2003-November
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman mailman 1526919 Sep 16 07:46 2003-November.txt
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman mailman   32114 Sep 16 07:46 2003-November.txt.gz
drwxrwsr-x    2 mailman mailman    4096 Sep 16 07:46 2003-September
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman mailman    5292 Sep 16 07:46 2003-September.txt
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman mailman    2826 Sep 16 07:46 2003-September.txt.gz
drwxrwsr-x    2 mailman mailman    4096 Sep 16 07:46 2004-April
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman mailman    2122 Sep 16 07:46 2004-April.txt
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman mailman    1066 Sep 16 07:46 2004-April.txt.gz
drwxrwsr-x    2 mailman mailman    4096 Sep 16 07:46 2004-August
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman mailman   54522 Sep 16 07:46 2004-August.txt
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman mailman   11181 Sep 16 07:46 2004-August.txt.gz
drwxrwsr-x    2 mailman mailman    4096 Sep 16 07:46 2004-December
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman mailman   13793 Sep 16 07:46 2004-December.txt
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman mailman    2590 Sep 16 07:46 2004-December.txt.gz
.....


Anne M. Hammond - Systems / Network Administration - Tech-X Corp
                   hammond_at_txcorp.com 720-974-1840

On Fri, 22 Dec 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Anne Hammond wrote:
>
>> The two messages are in
>> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox.
>
>
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox or
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox/vorpal-users.mbox?
>
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox should be a
> directory that contains the
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox/vorpal-users.mbox
> file.
>
> Assuming that's what you meant, that means that archiving to
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox/vorpal-users.mbox
> is working, but pipermail archiving is not.
>
>
>> Now here is the problem.  I thought this list was created today, but
>> it turns out that it was created  9.May.2006.  There are 9 messages
>> in vorpal-users.mbox that were there before, with the 2 from today
>> at the end.
>>
>> The 9 earlier messages are not in the archives.  They don't need
>> to be.
>
>
> I'm guessing that the 9 messages were in the pipermail archive but were
> lost when you moved over the other archive.
>
>
>> Can I hand edit this file and maybe run a cleanarch?
>
>
> Here's my suggestion.
>
> Get the archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox/vorpal-users.mbox file from
> the other machine and append either the two or the eleven messages to
> it so you have one
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox/vorpal-users.mbox
> file with all the messages you want archived.
>
> Run bin/cleanarch with the '-n' option and the overall .mbox as input.
> If it gives any "Unix-From line changed:" messages, then move the
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox/vorpal-users.mbox
> file and rerun bin/cleanarch without '-n' to create a 'cleaned'
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/vorpal-users.mbox/vorpal-users.mbox
> file.
>
> Then run 'bin/arch --wipe vorpal-users' to remove and rebuild the
> pipermail archive.
>
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp>
> for more info about this. Be aware, that it's possible that the
> bin/arch --wipe will cause messages to be assigned different numbers
> in the archive, thus invalidating saved URLs pointing to archived
> messages, but I gather that at least the host portion of the URL
> changed anyway.
>
> Once you have rebuilt the archive in this way, it should work from now
> on.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

From hammond at txcorp.com  Sat Dec 23 05:57:44 2006
From: hammond at txcorp.com (Anne Hammond)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 21:57:44 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not archiving
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612222138520.4209@volt.txcorp.com>
References: <PC17602006122220284001565733a184@msapiro>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0612222138520.4209@volt.txcorp.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612222155130.4209@volt.txcorp.com>

/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/{list}.mbox/{list}.mbox

contains all email messages since inception of the mailing list.

So it should create a new archive containing all of the
email messages since inception.

Anne M. Hammond - Systems / Network Administration - Tech-X Corp
                   hammond_at_txcorp.com 720-974-1840


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 23 06:11:37 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 21:11:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not archiving
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612222155130.4209@volt.txcorp.com>
Message-ID: <PC17602006122221113707969b285d21@msapiro>

Anne Hammond wrote:

>/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/{list}.mbox/{list}.mbox
>
>contains all email messages since inception of the mailing list.
>
>So it should create a new archive containing all of the
>email messages since inception.


I'm not sure what you are saying above, but I think it is correct. If
you get the archives/private/{list}.mbox/{list}.mbox file from the old
system which contains the messages from August, 2003 to the move, and
append to it those new messages you want archived, then after you run
'bin/arch --wipe vorpal-users', you will have a newly built pipermail
archive with all the messages from the
archives/private/{list}.mbox/{list}.mbox file.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 23 06:17:52 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 21:17:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not archiving
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612222138520.4209@volt.txcorp.com>
Message-ID: <PC176020061222211752057886237eb6@msapiro>

Anne Hammond wrote:
>
>I will change the archiving option to Montly for the new archive,
>and then sort through what you have suggested.


If you change to 'monthly' and then rebuild with bin/arch --wipe with a
complete listname.mbox file, the archive will be completely rebuilt
with monthly indexing.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From hammond at txcorp.com  Sat Dec 23 06:23:34 2006
From: hammond at txcorp.com (Anne Hammond)
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 22:23:34 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not archiving
In-Reply-To: <PC176020061222211752057886237eb6@msapiro>
References: <PC176020061222211752057886237eb6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612222220110.4209@volt.txcorp.com>

SUCCESS!!

I changed the archive option to monthly
edited the vorpal-users.mbox file to include the messages desired in
   the archive
mv archive/private/vorpal-users to archive/proviate/vorpal-users.save
bin/arch vorpal-users

This created the entire new pipermail archive.




Anne M. Hammond - Systems / Network Administration - Tech-X Corp
                   hammond_at_txcorp.com 720-974-1840

On Fri, 22 Dec 2006, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Anne Hammond wrote:
>>
>> I will change the archiving option to Montly for the new archive,
>> and then sort through what you have suggested.
>
>
> If you change to 'monthly' and then rebuild with bin/arch --wipe with a
> complete listname.mbox file, the archive will be completely rebuilt
> with monthly indexing.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

From will at willspc.net  Sat Dec 23 13:52:16 2006
From: will at willspc.net (Will Nordmeyer)
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 07:52:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating to new server...
Message-ID: <000801c72691$302fc960$6600a8c0@hundredacrewood.willspc.net>

Hi,

 

I'm preparing to migrate my mailman V2.1.9 (just upgraded from 2.1.8 last
night) lists, etc. to a new server.  I found this article
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg11052.html directing
me how to back up/restore, etc.

 

It tells me to back up config.db for each list.  I don't have/can't find any
config.db files within the mailman system.  How bad is that?

 

--Will


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Dec 23 18:57:57 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 09:57:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating to new server...
In-Reply-To: <000801c72691$302fc960$6600a8c0@hundredacrewood.willspc.net>
Message-ID: <PC176020061223095757045348b3895e@msapiro>

Will Nordmeyer wrote:
>
>I'm preparing to migrate my mailman V2.1.9 (just upgraded from 2.1.8 last
>night) lists, etc. to a new server.  I found this article
>http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg11052.html directing
>me how to back up/restore, etc.


Also see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.004.htp>
and perhaps other FAQs including 4.6 and 4.18 and 4.29.


>It tells me to back up config.db for each list.  I don't have/can't find any
>config.db files within the mailman system.  How bad is that?


config.db went away in Mailman 2.1. It is now config.pck. The
instructions in the article you point to contain unnecessary steps. It
isn't necessary to create the list with newlist on the new server.
Also, the config.db files they refer to (now config.pck files) are in
the lists/listname/ directories, so following the steps literally will
move them twice.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From admin2 at enabled.com  Tue Dec 26 16:28:07 2006
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 07:28:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not sending post
Message-ID: <45913F87.8010900@enabled.com>

Hi there,

mailman-2.1.9
sendmail 8.13.8
python-2.4.3
freebsd-4.11


Mailman has been running on my machine for years.   I host about 50 or 
so lists with virtual hostnames being sued for some of them. 

recently mailman has not mailed posts to a specific list, and I cant 
figure out why.
I see the mailman post mail being accepted by sendmail and piped to 
mailman but mailman does nothing with the post.  No trace of the post in 
the /usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp or the /usr/local/mailman/logs/post

I cant find a related trace dumped in the mailman error logs.

subscribes and unsubscribes piped to mailman work fine
like mail sent to <listname>-subscribe at domain.com gets piped 
|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe <listname> just fine by sendmail
mailman sends a confirmation mail just fine as well.

there is one file in the /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/shunt directory from 
october 7th 2006.

Mailman properly handles and delivers posts to all other lists.  I 
really am not sure what else to check.

cheers,

Noah




From admin2 at enabled.com  Tue Dec 26 17:52:52 2006
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 08:52:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and no
	trailing empty line
Message-ID: <45915364.5010106@enabled.com>

freebsd-4.11
sendmail-8.13.8
mailman-2.1.9_1
python-2.4.3


any clues why mailman keeps dumping the following error trace in 
/usr/local/mailman/logs/error ?  Happens about every hour or so or 
sometimes minutes apart.


--- snip ---

Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Ignoring unparseable message: 
1166121349.6141329+c811d30798575d4ca57b9a0552a1d394a95c8ff1
Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Uncaught runner exception: No terminating 
boundary and no trailing empty line
Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 164, in 
dequeue
    msg = email.message_from_string(msg, Message.Message)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init__.py", line 51, in 
message_from_string
    return Parser(_class, strict=strict).parsestr(s)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
    return self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 240, in 
_parsebody
    msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
    return self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 265, in 
_parsebody
    msg = self.parse(fp)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 206, in 
_parsebody
    raise Errors.BoundaryError(
BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and no trailing empty line

--- snip ---

From cflorio at citadel97.com  Tue Dec 26 23:13:45 2006
From: cflorio at citadel97.com (Chris Florio)
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 17:13:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] OS X Permissions Help.
Message-ID: <329E796A-7F41-4B32-8472-B5FE51BFF431@citadel97.com>

Hello all,

I'm trying to get mailman working on my intel based Mac Mini running  
10.4.8 (NOT OS X Server).  I'm running Postfix configured using  
http://cutedgesystems.com/software/MailServe/

I have configured and installed mailman using some instructions I  
found here:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-July/045697.html

The problem is, it looks like i have a group or ownership problem  
somewhere.

As the instructions said, I configured using:

sudo ./configure --prefix=/Applications/mailman --with-cgi-gid=www -- 
with-mail-gid=mailman


Using the instructions from the list I found, I am getting this error  
posting to a list I created:

...

The Postfix program

<alumni at citadel97.com>: Command died with status 2:
     "/Applications/mailman/mail/mailman post alumni". Command  
output: Group
     mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be  
executed as
     group "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail  
script as
     group "www".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as  
group
     "mailman", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option
     `--with-mail-gid=www'.


...

So, I tried again using:

sudo ./configure --prefix=/Applications/mailman --with-cgi-gid=www -- 
with-mail-gid=www

And then I get this error:

	The Postfix program

<alumni at citadel97.com>: Command died with status 2:
     "/Applications/mailman/mail/mailman post alumni". Command  
output: Group
     mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be  
executed as
     group "www", but the system's mail server executed the mail  
script as group
     "mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as  
group "www",
     or re-run configure,  providing the command line option
     `--with-mail-gid=mailman'.

....


Any ideas?

Thanks!




From admin2 at enabled.com  Wed Dec 27 01:01:59 2006
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 16:01:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not sending post
Message-ID: <4591B7F7.30501@enabled.com>

Hi there,

mailman-2.1.9
sendmail 8.13.8
python-2.4.3
freebsd-4.11


Mailman has been running on my machine for years.   I host about 50 or
so lists with virtual hostnames being sued for some of them.

recently mailman has not mailed posts to a specific list, and I cant
figure out why.
I see the mailman post mail being accepted by sendmail and piped to
mailman but mailman does nothing with the post.  No trace of the post in
the /usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp or the /usr/local/mailman/logs/post

I cant find a related trace dumped in the mailman error logs.

subscribes and unsubscribes piped to mailman work fine
like mail sent to <listname>-subscribe at domain.com gets piped
|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe <listname> just fine by sendmail
mailman sends a confirmation mail just fine as well.

there is one file in the /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/shunt directory from
october 7th 2006.

Mailman properly handles and delivers posts to all other lists.  I
really am not sure what else to check.

cheers,

Noah





From admin2 at enabled.com  Wed Dec 27 01:02:06 2006
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 16:02:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and no
	trailing empty line
Message-ID: <4591B7FE.8020003@enabled.com>

freebsd-4.11
sendmail-8.13.8
mailman-2.1.9_1
python-2.4.3


any clues why mailman keeps dumping the following error trace in
/usr/local/mailman/logs/error ?  Happens about every hour or so or
sometimes minutes apart.


--- snip ---

Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Ignoring unparseable message:
1166121349.6141329+c811d30798575d4ca57b9a0552a1d394a95c8ff1
Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Uncaught runner exception: No terminating
boundary and no trailing empty line
Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 100, in _oneloop
    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 164, in
dequeue
    msg = email.message_from_string(msg, Message.Message)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init__.py", line 51, in
message_from_string
    return Parser(_class, strict=strict).parsestr(s)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
    return self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 240, in
_parsebody
    msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
    return self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 265, in
_parsebody
    msg = self.parse(fp)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 206, in
_parsebody
    raise Errors.BoundaryError(
BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and no trailing empty line

--- snip ---


From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Dec 27 04:21:17 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 12:21:17 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and
	no	trailing empty line
In-Reply-To: <4591B7FE.8020003@enabled.com>
References: <4591B7FE.8020003@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <877iwem3bm.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Noah writes:

 > any clues why mailman keeps dumping the following error trace in
 > /usr/local/mailman/logs/error ?  Happens about every hour or so or
 > sometimes minutes apart.

Probably for the same reason you repeatedly post to Mailman Users: it
wants attention to its pain.

For future reference, the folks (not me! I show up when I feel like
it) who monitor this list are knowledgeable and conscientious, in the
extreme, and it is *very* rare that posts get dropped on the floor.
Typical response times are in the range 30 minutes to 36 hours,
depending on random factors.

Check that your post has appeared in the archives, and if so, give it
a day at least.  Don't waste the interval; read the FAQ[1], search the
list archives (a search for the error message, in this case "Ignoring
unparseable message", is strongly recommended), collect more log data,
etc.  If your post doesn't appear within a day, you may wish to send
mail to the list administrator.  It's possible that your post got
inadvertantly snagged by a spam filter, and you'll need help getting
past that.

 > Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Ignoring unparseable message:
 > 1166121349.6141329+c811d30798575d4ca57b9a0552a1d394a95c8ff1

The hash code above identified the problem message.  I believe you
will find a file by that name (with extension .pck) in the "qfiles"
directory of your Mailman data area, and if you move it somewhere
else, Mailman will stop complaining.  It happens regularly because
Mailman tries to process the files in that directory on a regular
basis, until all deliveries scheduled for it are complete.

It's possible that you are the target of a spambot, in which case you
may not find the file (because it's been shunted to the "shunt"
directory), and you will see that all the message IDs are different in
the logs, because the spambot is sending a new copy at hourly
intervals.

 > Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Uncaught runner exception: No terminating
 > boundary and no trailing empty line

You've got a badly-formed MIME message in the queue.  It could be
spam, it could simply be the product of a Microsoft mail client, it
could be broken by a relay MTA, or it could be that you ran out of
diskspace and it got truncated (seems unlikely, given the care that
Postfix and Mailman take to not do such things).  

Use the bin/show_qfiles script to examine the contents of that file.
Simply changing to the mailman data area (on my Debian system it's
/var/lib/mailman, YMMV) running bin/show_qfiles without arguments will
give you a usage message.


Footnotes: 
[1]  The whole thing, both the static one and the FAQ Wizard.  If it's
not important enough to read the whole FAQ, which isn't as much fun as
a Sidney Sheldon novel but is also much shorter, it probably can wait
a day or a week.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Dec 27 05:23:47 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 22:23:47 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and
 no	trailing empty line
In-Reply-To: <877iwem3bm.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <4591B7FE.8020003@enabled.com>
	<877iwem3bm.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06240500c1b7a51e4200@[172.16.1.2]>

At 12:21 PM +0900 12/27/06, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>  For future reference, the folks (not me! I show up when I feel like
>  it) who monitor this list are knowledgeable and conscientious, in the
>  extreme, and it is *very* rare that posts get dropped on the floor.
>  Typical response times are in the range 30 minutes to 36 hours,
>  depending on random factors.

This is the day after Christmas.  Any time anyone is posting to any 
mailing list for the two to three week period of time starting a few 
days before Christmas and ending a few days after the first of 
January, it's going to be slow.  During these times, people who post 
to the list can count on replies taking a lot longer to be posted.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From brad at shub-internet.org  Wed Dec 27 05:29:02 2006
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 22:29:02 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not sending post
In-Reply-To: <4591B7F7.30501@enabled.com>
References: <4591B7F7.30501@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <p06240501c1b7a5da6e18@[172.16.1.2]>

At 4:01 PM -0800 12/26/06, Noah wrote:

>  recently mailman has not mailed posts to a specific list, and I cant
>  figure out why.

You've recently posted a few times to this list, on two separate 
subjects.  I strongly suspect that these two issues are actually 
related -- what you're not finding in this particular case is likely 
to be the stuff you are finding in the other case.

>  Mailman properly handles and delivers posts to all other lists.  I
>  really am not sure what else to check.

Check all other unusual activity.  Look in all the logs that Mailman 
creates, and all the system log files that may be created by your MTA.

Make sure to take a look in the FAQ wizard -- there's lots of good 
troubleshooting tips in there.  In fact, I recommend that you search 
on the word "troubleshooting", among other things.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>

Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the stop.mail-abuse.org
mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If you have an old
e-mail account for me at this domain, please make sure you correct that
with the current address.

From ambrose_christopher at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 27 13:59:05 2006
From: ambrose_christopher at yahoo.com (AMBROSE CHRISTOPHER)
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 04:59:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 34, Issue 64
In-Reply-To: <mailman.22.1167217208.29951.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <151164.39497.qm@web50908.mail.yahoo.com>


--- mailman-users-request at python.org wrote:

> Send Mailman-Users mailing list submissions to
> 	mailman-users at python.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web,
> visit
> 
>
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body
> 'help' to
> 	mailman-users-request at python.org
> check last couple days mail,you have answer,is
double up.
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	mailman-users-owner at python.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it
> is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Mailman-Users digest..."
> > Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. mailman not sending post (Noah)
>    2. BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and no
> trailing empty
>       line (Noah)
>    3. OS X Permissions Help. (Chris Florio)
>    4. mailman not sending post (Noah)
>    5. BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and no
> trailing empty
>       line (Noah)
>    6. BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and	no
> trailing empty
>       line (Stephen J. Turnbull)
>    7. Re: BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and
> no	trailing
>       empty line (Brad Knowles)
>    8. Re: mailman not sending post (Brad Knowles)
> > From: Noah <admin2 at enabled.com>
> To: Mailman Users <mailman-users at python.org>
> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 07:28:07 -0800
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not sending post
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> mailman-2.1.9
> sendmail 8.13.8
> python-2.4.3
> freebsd-4.11
> 
> 
> Mailman has been running on my machine for years.  
> I host about 50 or 
> so lists with virtual hostnames being sued for some
> of them. 
> 
> recently mailman has not mailed posts to a specific
> list, and I cant 
> figure out why.
> I see the mailman post mail being accepted by
> sendmail and piped to 
> mailman but mailman does nothing with the post.  No
> trace of the post in 
> the /usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp or the
> /usr/local/mailman/logs/post
> 
> I cant find a related trace dumped in the mailman
> error logs.
> 
> subscribes and unsubscribes piped to mailman work
> fine
> like mail sent to <listname>-subscribe at domain.com
> gets piped 
> |/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe
> <listname> just fine by sendmail
> mailman sends a confirmation mail just fine as well.
> 
> there is one file in the
> /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/shunt directory from 
> october 7th 2006.
> 
> Mailman properly handles and delivers posts to all
> other lists.  I 
> really am not sure what else to check.
> 
> cheers,
> 
> Noah
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > From: Noah <admin2 at enabled.com>
> To: Mailman Users <mailman-users at python.org>
> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 08:52:52 -0800
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] BoundaryError: No
> terminating boundary and no
> 	trailing empty line
> 
> freebsd-4.11
> sendmail-8.13.8
> mailman-2.1.9_1
> python-2.4.3
> 
> 
> any clues why mailman keeps dumping the following
> error trace in 
> /usr/local/mailman/logs/error ?  Happens about every
> hour or so or 
> sometimes minutes apart.
> 
> 
> --- snip ---
> 
> Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Ignoring unparseable
> message: 
>
1166121349.6141329+c811d30798575d4ca57b9a0552a1d394a95c8ff1
> Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Uncaught runner
> exception: No terminating 
> boundary and no trailing empty line
> Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Traceback (most recent
> call last):
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py",
> line 100, in _oneloop
>     msg, msgdata =
> self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py",
> line 164, in 
> dequeue
>     msg = email.message_from_string(msg,
> Message.Message)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init__.py",
> line 51, in 
> message_from_string
>     return Parser(_class, strict=strict).parsestr(s)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 75, in parsestr
>     return self.parse(StringIO(text),
> headersonly=headersonly)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 64, in parse
>     self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 240, in 
> _parsebody
>     msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 75, in parsestr
>     return self.parse(StringIO(text),
> headersonly=headersonly)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 64, in parse
>     self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 265, in 
> _parsebody
>     msg = self.parse(fp)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 64, in parse
>     self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 206, in 
> _parsebody
>     raise Errors.BoundaryError(
> BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and no
> trailing empty line
> 
> --- snip ---
> 
> > From: Chris Florio <cflorio at citadel97.com>
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 17:13:45 -0500
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] OS X Permissions Help.
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I'm trying to get mailman working on my intel based
> Mac Mini running  
> 10.4.8 (NOT OS X Server).  I'm running Postfix
> configured using  
> http://cutedgesystems.com/software/MailServe/
> 
> I have configured and installed mailman using some
> instructions I  
> found here:
> 
>
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-July/045697.html
> 
> The problem is, it looks like i have a group or
> ownership problem  
> somewhere.
> 
> As the instructions said, I configured using:
> 
> sudo ./configure --prefix=/Applications/mailman
> --with-cgi-gid=www -- 
> with-mail-gid=mailman
> 
> 
> Using the instructions from the list I found, I am
> getting this error  
> posting to a list I created:
> 
> ...
> 
> The Postfix program
> 
> <alumni at citadel97.com>: Command died with status 2:
>      "/Applications/mailman/mail/mailman post
> alumni". Command  
> output: Group
>      mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
> wrapper script to be  
> executed as
>      group "mailman", but the system's mail server
> executed the mail  
> script as
>      group "www".  Try tweaking the mail server to
> run the script as  
> group
>      "mailman", or re-run configure,  providing the
> command line option
>      `--with-mail-gid=www'.
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> So, I tried again using:
> 
> sudo ./configure --prefix=/Applications/mailman
> --with-cgi-gid=www -- 
> with-mail-gid=www
> 
> And then I get this error:
> 
> 	The Postfix program
> 
> <alumni at citadel97.com>: Command died with status 2:
>      "/Applications/mailman/mail/mailman post
> alumni". Command  
> output: Group
>      mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
> wrapper script to be  
> executed as
>      group "www", but the system's mail server
> executed the mail  
> script as group
>      "mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run
> the script as  
> group "www",
>      or re-run configure,  providing the command
> line option
>      `--with-mail-gid=mailman'.
> 
> ....
> 
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > From: Noah <admin2 at enabled.com>
> To: Mailman Users <mailman-users at python.org>
> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 16:01:59 -0800
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not sending post
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> mailman-2.1.9
> sendmail 8.13.8
> python-2.4.3
> freebsd-4.11
> 
> 
> Mailman has been running on my machine for years.  
> I host about 50 or
> so lists with virtual hostnames being sued for some
> of them.
> 
> recently mailman has not mailed posts to a specific
> list, and I cant
> figure out why.
> I see the mailman post mail being accepted by
> sendmail and piped to
> mailman but mailman does nothing with the post.  No
> trace of the post in
> the /usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp or the
> /usr/local/mailman/logs/post
> 
> I cant find a related trace dumped in the mailman
> error logs.
> 
> subscribes and unsubscribes piped to mailman work
> fine
> like mail sent to <listname>-subscribe at domain.com
> gets piped
> |/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe
> <listname> just fine by sendmail
> mailman sends a confirmation mail just fine as well.
> 
> there is one file in the
> /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/shunt directory from
> october 7th 2006.
> 
> Mailman properly handles and delivers posts to all
> other lists.  I
> really am not sure what else to check.
> 
> cheers,
> 
> Noah
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > From: Noah <admin2 at enabled.com>
> To: Mailman Users <mailman-users at python.org>
> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 16:02:06 -0800
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] BoundaryError: No
> terminating boundary and no
> 	trailing empty line
> 
> freebsd-4.11
> sendmail-8.13.8
> mailman-2.1.9_1
> python-2.4.3
> 
> 
> any clues why mailman keeps dumping the following
> error trace in
> /usr/local/mailman/logs/error ?  Happens about every
> hour or so or
> sometimes minutes apart.
> 
> 
> --- snip ---
> 
> Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Ignoring unparseable
> message:
>
1166121349.6141329+c811d30798575d4ca57b9a0552a1d394a95c8ff1
> Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Uncaught runner
> exception: No terminating
> boundary and no trailing empty line
> Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Traceback (most recent
> call last):
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py",
> line 100, in _oneloop
>     msg, msgdata =
> self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py",
> line 164, in
> dequeue
>     msg = email.message_from_string(msg,
> Message.Message)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init__.py",
> line 51, in
> message_from_string
>     return Parser(_class, strict=strict).parsestr(s)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 75, in parsestr
>     return self.parse(StringIO(text),
> headersonly=headersonly)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 64, in parse
>     self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 240, in
> _parsebody
>     msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 75, in parsestr
>     return self.parse(StringIO(text),
> headersonly=headersonly)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 64, in parse
>     self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 265, in
> _parsebody
>     msg = self.parse(fp)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 64, in parse
>     self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 206, in
> _parsebody
>     raise Errors.BoundaryError(
> BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and no
> trailing empty line
> 
> --- snip ---
> 
> 
> > From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org>
> CC: Mailman Users <mailman-users at python.org>
> To: Noah <admin2 at enabled.com>
> Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 12:21:17 +0900
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] BoundaryError: No
> terminating boundary and
> 	no	trailing empty line
> 
> Noah writes:
> 
>  > any clues why mailman keeps dumping the following
> error trace in
>  > /usr/local/mailman/logs/error ?  Happens about
> every hour or so or
>  > sometimes minutes apart.
> 
> Probably for the same reason you repeatedly post to
> Mailman Users: it
> wants attention to its pain.
> 
> For future reference, the folks (not me! I show up
> when I feel like
> it) who monitor this list are knowledgeable and
> conscientious, in the
> extreme, and it is *very* rare that posts get
> dropped on the floor.
> Typical response times are in the range 30 minutes
> to 36 hours,
> depending on random factors.
> 
> Check that your post has appeared in the archives,
> and if so, give it
> a day at least.  Don't waste the interval; read the
> FAQ[1], search the
> list archives (a search for the error message, in
> this case "Ignoring
> unparseable message", is strongly recommended),
> collect more log data,
> etc.  If your post doesn't appear within a day, you
> may wish to send
> mail to the list administrator.  It's possible that
> your post got
> inadvertantly snagged by a spam filter, and you'll
> need help getting
> past that.
> 
>  > Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Ignoring unparseable
> message:
>  >
>
1166121349.6141329+c811d30798575d4ca57b9a0552a1d394a95c8ff1
> 
> The hash code above identified the problem message. 
> I believe you
> will find a file by that name (with extension .pck)
> in the "qfiles"
> directory of your Mailman data area, and if you move
> it somewhere
> else, Mailman will stop complaining.  It happens
> regularly because
> Mailman tries to process the files in that directory
> on a regular
> basis, until all deliveries scheduled for it are
> complete.
> 
> It's possible that you are the target of a spambot,
> in which case you
> may not find the file (because it's been shunted to
> the "shunt"
> directory), and you will see that all the message
> IDs are different in
> the logs, because the spambot is sending a new copy
> at hourly
> intervals.
> 
>  > Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Uncaught runner
> exception: No terminating
>  > boundary and no trailing empty line
> 
> You've got a badly-formed MIME message in the queue.
>  It could be
> spam, it could simply be the product of a Microsoft
> mail client, it
> could be broken by a relay MTA, or it could be that
> you ran out of
> diskspace and it got truncated (seems unlikely,
> given the care that
> Postfix and Mailman take to not do such things).  
> 
> Use the bin/show_qfiles script to examine the
> contents of that file.
> Simply changing to the mailman data area (on my
> Debian system it's
> /var/lib/mailman, YMMV) running bin/show_qfiles
> without arguments will
> give you a usage message.
> 
> 
> Footnotes: 
> [1]  The whole thing, both the static one and the
> FAQ Wizard.  If it's
> not important enough to read the whole FAQ, which
> isn't as much fun as
> a Sidney Sheldon novel but is also much shorter, it
> probably can wait
> a day or a week.
> 
> 
> > From: Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
> CC: Mailman Users <mailman-users at python.org>
> To: Noah <admin2 at enabled.com>
> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 22:23:47 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] BoundaryError: No
> terminating boundary and
> 	no	trailing empty line
> 
> At 12:21 PM +0900 12/27/06, Stephen J. Turnbull
> wrote:
> 
> >  For future reference, the folks (not me! I show
> up when I feel like
> >  it) who monitor this list are knowledgeable and
> conscientious, in the
> >  extreme, and it is *very* rare that posts get
> dropped on the floor.
> >  Typical response times are in the range 30
> minutes to 36 hours,
> >  depending on random factors.
> 
> This is the day after Christmas.  Any time anyone is
> posting to any 
> mailing list for the two to three week period of
> time starting a few 
> days before Christmas and ending a few days after
> the first of 
> January, it's going to be slow.  During these times,
> people who post 
> to the list can count on replies taking a lot longer
> to be posted.
> 
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>
> 
> Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the
> stop.mail-abuse.org
> mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If
> you have an old
> e-mail account for me at this domain, please make
> sure you correct that
> with the current address.
> 
> > From: Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
> To: Noah <admin2 at enabled.com>,
> 	Mailman Users <mailman-users at python.org>
> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 22:29:02 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman not sending
> post
> 
> At 4:01 PM -0800 12/26/06, Noah wrote:
> 
> >  recently mailman has not mailed posts to a
> specific list, and I cant
> >  figure out why.
> 
> You've recently posted a few times to this list, on
> two separate 
> subjects.  I strongly suspect that these two issues
> are actually 
> related -- what you're not finding in this
> particular case is likely 
> to be the stuff you are finding in the other case.
> 
> >  Mailman properly handles and delivers posts to
> all other lists.  I
> >  really am not sure what else to check.
> 
> Check all other unusual activity.  Look in all the
> logs that Mailman 
> creates, and all the system log files that may be
> created by your MTA.
> 
> Make sure to take a look in the FAQ wizard --
> there's lots of good 
> troubleshooting tips in there.  In fact, I recommend
> that you search 
> on the word "troubleshooting", among other things.
> 
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>
> 
> Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the
> stop.mail-abuse.org
> mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If
> you have an old
> e-mail account for me at this domain, please make
> sure you correct that
> with the current address.
> 
> >
------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
>
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From ambrose_christopher at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 27 14:02:57 2006
From: ambrose_christopher at yahoo.com (AMBROSE CHRISTOPHER)
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 05:02:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 34, Issue 64
In-Reply-To: <mailman.22.1167217208.29951.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <718679.70670.qm@web50909.mail.yahoo.com>

they created ghost log over weekend then were
corrected by teacher or w/ever admin is.
--- mailman-users-request at python.org wrote:

> Send Mailman-Users mailing list submissions to
> 	mailman-users at python.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web,
> visit
> 
>
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body
> 'help' to
> 	mailman-users-request at python.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	mailman-users-owner at python.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it
> is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Mailman-Users digest..."
> > Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. mailman not sending post (Noah)
>    2. BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and no
> trailing empty
>       line (Noah)
>    3. OS X Permissions Help. (Chris Florio)
>    4. mailman not sending post (Noah)
>    5. BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and no
> trailing empty
>       line (Noah)
>    6. BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and	no
> trailing empty
>       line (Stephen J. Turnbull)
>    7. Re: BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and
> no	trailing
>       empty line (Brad Knowles)
>    8. Re: mailman not sending post (Brad Knowles)
> > From: Noah <admin2 at enabled.com>
> To: Mailman Users <mailman-users at python.org>
> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 07:28:07 -0800
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not sending post
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> mailman-2.1.9
> sendmail 8.13.8
> python-2.4.3
> freebsd-4.11
> 
> 
> Mailman has been running on my machine for years.  
> I host about 50 or 
> so lists with virtual hostnames being sued for some
> of them. 
> 
> recently mailman has not mailed posts to a specific
> list, and I cant 
> figure out why.
> I see the mailman post mail being accepted by
> sendmail and piped to 
> mailman but mailman does nothing with the post.  No
> trace of the post in 
> the /usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp or the
> /usr/local/mailman/logs/post
> 
> I cant find a related trace dumped in the mailman
> error logs.
> 
> subscribes and unsubscribes piped to mailman work
> fine
> like mail sent to <listname>-subscribe at domain.com
> gets piped 
> |/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe
> <listname> just fine by sendmail
> mailman sends a confirmation mail just fine as well.
> 
> there is one file in the
> /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/shunt directory from 
> october 7th 2006.
> 
> Mailman properly handles and delivers posts to all
> other lists.  I 
> really am not sure what else to check.
> 
> cheers,
> 
> Noah
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > From: Noah <admin2 at enabled.com>
> To: Mailman Users <mailman-users at python.org>
> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 08:52:52 -0800
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] BoundaryError: No
> terminating boundary and no
> 	trailing empty line
> 
> freebsd-4.11
> sendmail-8.13.8
> mailman-2.1.9_1
> python-2.4.3
> 
> 
> any clues why mailman keeps dumping the following
> error trace in 
> /usr/local/mailman/logs/error ?  Happens about every
> hour or so or 
> sometimes minutes apart.
> 
> 
> --- snip ---
> 
> Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Ignoring unparseable
> message: 
>
1166121349.6141329+c811d30798575d4ca57b9a0552a1d394a95c8ff1
> Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Uncaught runner
> exception: No terminating 
> boundary and no trailing empty line
> Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Traceback (most recent
> call last):
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py",
> line 100, in _oneloop
>     msg, msgdata =
> self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py",
> line 164, in 
> dequeue
>     msg = email.message_from_string(msg,
> Message.Message)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init__.py",
> line 51, in 
> message_from_string
>     return Parser(_class, strict=strict).parsestr(s)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 75, in parsestr
>     return self.parse(StringIO(text),
> headersonly=headersonly)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 64, in parse
>     self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 240, in 
> _parsebody
>     msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 75, in parsestr
>     return self.parse(StringIO(text),
> headersonly=headersonly)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 64, in parse
>     self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 265, in 
> _parsebody
>     msg = self.parse(fp)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 64, in parse
>     self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 206, in 
> _parsebody
>     raise Errors.BoundaryError(
> BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and no
> trailing empty line
> 
> --- snip ---
> 
> > From: Chris Florio <cflorio at citadel97.com>
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 17:13:45 -0500
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] OS X Permissions Help.
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I'm trying to get mailman working on my intel based
> Mac Mini running  
> 10.4.8 (NOT OS X Server).  I'm running Postfix
> configured using  
> http://cutedgesystems.com/software/MailServe/
> 
> I have configured and installed mailman using some
> instructions I  
> found here:
> 
>
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-July/045697.html
> 
> The problem is, it looks like i have a group or
> ownership problem  
> somewhere.
> 
> As the instructions said, I configured using:
> 
> sudo ./configure --prefix=/Applications/mailman
> --with-cgi-gid=www -- 
> with-mail-gid=mailman
> 
> 
> Using the instructions from the list I found, I am
> getting this error  
> posting to a list I created:
> 
> ...
> 
> The Postfix program
> 
> <alumni at citadel97.com>: Command died with status 2:
>      "/Applications/mailman/mail/mailman post
> alumni". Command  
> output: Group
>      mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
> wrapper script to be  
> executed as
>      group "mailman", but the system's mail server
> executed the mail  
> script as
>      group "www".  Try tweaking the mail server to
> run the script as  
> group
>      "mailman", or re-run configure,  providing the
> command line option
>      `--with-mail-gid=www'.
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> So, I tried again using:
> 
> sudo ./configure --prefix=/Applications/mailman
> --with-cgi-gid=www -- 
> with-mail-gid=www
> 
> And then I get this error:
> 
> 	The Postfix program
> 
> <alumni at citadel97.com>: Command died with status 2:
>      "/Applications/mailman/mail/mailman post
> alumni". Command  
> output: Group
>      mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
> wrapper script to be  
> executed as
>      group "www", but the system's mail server
> executed the mail  
> script as group
>      "mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to run
> the script as  
> group "www",
>      or re-run configure,  providing the command
> line option
>      `--with-mail-gid=mailman'.
> 
> ....
> 
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > From: Noah <admin2 at enabled.com>
> To: Mailman Users <mailman-users at python.org>
> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 16:01:59 -0800
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not sending post
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> mailman-2.1.9
> sendmail 8.13.8
> python-2.4.3
> freebsd-4.11
> 
> 
> Mailman has been running on my machine for years.  
> I host about 50 or
> so lists with virtual hostnames being sued for some
> of them.
> 
> recently mailman has not mailed posts to a specific
> list, and I cant
> figure out why.
> I see the mailman post mail being accepted by
> sendmail and piped to
> mailman but mailman does nothing with the post.  No
> trace of the post in
> the /usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp or the
> /usr/local/mailman/logs/post
> 
> I cant find a related trace dumped in the mailman
> error logs.
> 
> subscribes and unsubscribes piped to mailman work
> fine
> like mail sent to <listname>-subscribe at domain.com
> gets piped
> |/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe
> <listname> just fine by sendmail
> mailman sends a confirmation mail just fine as well.
> 
> there is one file in the
> /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/shunt directory from
> october 7th 2006.
> 
> Mailman properly handles and delivers posts to all
> other lists.  I
> really am not sure what else to check.
> 
> cheers,
> 
> Noah
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > From: Noah <admin2 at enabled.com>
> To: Mailman Users <mailman-users at python.org>
> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 16:02:06 -0800
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] BoundaryError: No
> terminating boundary and no
> 	trailing empty line
> 
> freebsd-4.11
> sendmail-8.13.8
> mailman-2.1.9_1
> python-2.4.3
> 
> 
> any clues why mailman keeps dumping the following
> error trace in
> /usr/local/mailman/logs/error ?  Happens about every
> hour or so or
> sometimes minutes apart.
> 
> 
> --- snip ---
> 
> Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Ignoring unparseable
> message:
>
1166121349.6141329+c811d30798575d4ca57b9a0552a1d394a95c8ff1
> Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Uncaught runner
> exception: No terminating
> boundary and no trailing empty line
> Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Traceback (most recent
> call last):
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py",
> line 100, in _oneloop
>     msg, msgdata =
> self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py",
> line 164, in
> dequeue
>     msg = email.message_from_string(msg,
> Message.Message)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init__.py",
> line 51, in
> message_from_string
>     return Parser(_class, strict=strict).parsestr(s)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 75, in parsestr
>     return self.parse(StringIO(text),
> headersonly=headersonly)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 64, in parse
>     self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 240, in
> _parsebody
>     msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 75, in parsestr
>     return self.parse(StringIO(text),
> headersonly=headersonly)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 64, in parse
>     self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 265, in
> _parsebody
>     msg = self.parse(fp)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 64, in parse
>     self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
>   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line
> 206, in
> _parsebody
>     raise Errors.BoundaryError(
> BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and no
> trailing empty line
> 
> --- snip ---
> 
> 
> > From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org>
> CC: Mailman Users <mailman-users at python.org>
> To: Noah <admin2 at enabled.com>
> Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 12:21:17 +0900
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] BoundaryError: No
> terminating boundary and
> 	no	trailing empty line
> 
> Noah writes:
> 
>  > any clues why mailman keeps dumping the following
> error trace in
>  > /usr/local/mailman/logs/error ?  Happens about
> every hour or so or
>  > sometimes minutes apart.
> 
> Probably for the same reason you repeatedly post to
> Mailman Users: it
> wants attention to its pain.
> 
> For future reference, the folks (not me! I show up
> when I feel like
> it) who monitor this list are knowledgeable and
> conscientious, in the
> extreme, and it is *very* rare that posts get
> dropped on the floor.
> Typical response times are in the range 30 minutes
> to 36 hours,
> depending on random factors.
> 
> Check that your post has appeared in the archives,
> and if so, give it
> a day at least.  Don't waste the interval; read the
> FAQ[1], search the
> list archives (a search for the error message, in
> this case "Ignoring
> unparseable message", is strongly recommended),
> collect more log data,
> etc.  If your post doesn't appear within a day, you
> may wish to send
> mail to the list administrator.  It's possible that
> your post got
> inadvertantly snagged by a spam filter, and you'll
> need help getting
> past that.
> 
>  > Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Ignoring unparseable
> message:
>  >
>
1166121349.6141329+c811d30798575d4ca57b9a0552a1d394a95c8ff1
> 
> The hash code above identified the problem message. 
> I believe you
> will find a file by that name (with extension .pck)
> in the "qfiles"
> directory of your Mailman data area, and if you move
> it somewhere
> else, Mailman will stop complaining.  It happens
> regularly because
> Mailman tries to process the files in that directory
> on a regular
> basis, until all deliveries scheduled for it are
> complete.
> 
> It's possible that you are the target of a spambot,
> in which case you
> may not find the file (because it's been shunted to
> the "shunt"
> directory), and you will see that all the message
> IDs are different in
> the logs, because the spambot is sending a new copy
> at hourly
> intervals.
> 
>  > Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Uncaught runner
> exception: No terminating
>  > boundary and no trailing empty line
> 
> You've got a badly-formed MIME message in the queue.
>  It could be
> spam, it could simply be the product of a Microsoft
> mail client, it
> could be broken by a relay MTA, or it could be that
> you ran out of
> diskspace and it got truncated (seems unlikely,
> given the care that
> Postfix and Mailman take to not do such things).  
> 
> Use the bin/show_qfiles script to examine the
> contents of that file.
> Simply changing to the mailman data area (on my
> Debian system it's
> /var/lib/mailman, YMMV) running bin/show_qfiles
> without arguments will
> give you a usage message.
> 
> 
> Footnotes: 
> [1]  The whole thing, both the static one and the
> FAQ Wizard.  If it's
> not important enough to read the whole FAQ, which
> isn't as much fun as
> a Sidney Sheldon novel but is also much shorter, it
> probably can wait
> a day or a week.
> 
> 
> > From: Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
> CC: Mailman Users <mailman-users at python.org>
> To: Noah <admin2 at enabled.com>
> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 22:23:47 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] BoundaryError: No
> terminating boundary and
> 	no	trailing empty line
> 
> At 12:21 PM +0900 12/27/06, Stephen J. Turnbull
> wrote:
> 
> >  For future reference, the folks (not me! I show
> up when I feel like
> >  it) who monitor this list are knowledgeable and
> conscientious, in the
> >  extreme, and it is *very* rare that posts get
> dropped on the floor.
> >  Typical response times are in the range 30
> minutes to 36 hours,
> >  depending on random factors.
> 
> This is the day after Christmas.  Any time anyone is
> posting to any 
> mailing list for the two to three week period of
> time starting a few 
> days before Christmas and ending a few days after
> the first of 
> January, it's going to be slow.  During these times,
> people who post 
> to the list can count on replies taking a lot longer
> to be posted.
> 
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>
> 
> Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the
> stop.mail-abuse.org
> mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If
> you have an old
> e-mail account for me at this domain, please make
> sure you correct that
> with the current address.
> 
> > From: Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org>
> To: Noah <admin2 at enabled.com>,
> 	Mailman Users <mailman-users at python.org>
> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 22:29:02 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman not sending
> post
> 
> At 4:01 PM -0800 12/26/06, Noah wrote:
> 
> >  recently mailman has not mailed posts to a
> specific list, and I cant
> >  figure out why.
> 
> You've recently posted a few times to this list, on
> two separate 
> subjects.  I strongly suspect that these two issues
> are actually 
> related -- what you're not finding in this
> particular case is likely 
> to be the stuff you are finding in the other case.
> 
> >  Mailman properly handles and delivers posts to
> all other lists.  I
> >  really am not sure what else to check.
> 
> Check all other unusual activity.  Look in all the
> logs that Mailman 
> creates, and all the system log files that may be
> created by your MTA.
> 
> Make sure to take a look in the FAQ wizard --
> there's lots of good 
> troubleshooting tips in there.  In fact, I recommend
> that you search 
> on the word "troubleshooting", among other things.
> 
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at shub-internet.org>
> 
> Trend Micro has announced that they will cancel the
> stop.mail-abuse.org
> mail forwarding service as of 15 November 2006.  If
> you have an old
> e-mail account for me at this domain, please make
> sure you correct that
> with the current address.
> 
> >
------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
>
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From ambrose_christopher at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 27 17:00:26 2006
From: ambrose_christopher at yahoo.com (AMBROSE CHRISTOPHER)
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 08:00:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 34, Issue 65
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6005.1167225021.32030.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <197090.31532.qm@web50902.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi, sorry kind of a software idiot or rather not up on
your terms for things ,im kinda self taught , wont
bother you guys again but like to read,what i meant is
i believe this issue relevant to your present problem.
thnx///////	Sat, 23 Dec 2006 04:36:06
+0100/////////////////dont remember issue # but that
was time on it.
--- mailman-users-request at python.org wrote:

> Send Mailman-Users mailing list submissions to
> 	mailman-users at python.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web,
> visit
> 
>
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body
> 'help' to
> 	mailman-users-request at python.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	mailman-users-owner at python.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it
> is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Mailman-Users digest..."
> > Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 34, Issue 64
> (AMBROSE CHRISTOPHER)
>    2. Re: Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 34, Issue 64
> (AMBROSE CHRISTOPHER)
> > From: AMBROSE CHRISTOPHER
> <ambrose_christopher at yahoo.com>
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 04:59:05 -0800 (PST)
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest,
> Vol 34, Issue 64
> 
> 
> --- mailman-users-request at python.org wrote:
> 
> > Send Mailman-Users mailing list submissions to
> > 	mailman-users at python.org
> > 
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide
> Web,
> > visit
> > 
> >
>
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body
> > 'help' to
> > 	mailman-users-request at python.org
> > check last couple days mail,you have answer,is
> double up.
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > 	mailman-users-owner at python.org
> > 
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it
> > is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Mailman-Users digest..."
> > > Today's Topics:
> > 
> >    1. mailman not sending post (Noah)
> >    2. BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and
> no
> > trailing empty
> >       line (Noah)
> >    3. OS X Permissions Help. (Chris Florio)
> >    4. mailman not sending post (Noah)
> >    5. BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and
> no
> > trailing empty
> >       line (Noah)
> >    6. BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and
> no
> > trailing empty
> >       line (Stephen J. Turnbull)
> >    7. Re: BoundaryError: No terminating boundary
> and
> > no	trailing
> >       empty line (Brad Knowles)
> >    8. Re: mailman not sending post (Brad Knowles)
> > > From: Noah <admin2 at enabled.com>
> > To: Mailman Users <mailman-users at python.org>
> > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 07:28:07 -0800
> > Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not sending post
> > 
> > Hi there,
> > 
> > mailman-2.1.9
> > sendmail 8.13.8
> > python-2.4.3
> > freebsd-4.11
> > 
> > 
> > Mailman has been running on my machine for years. 
> 
> > I host about 50 or 
> > so lists with virtual hostnames being sued for
> some
> > of them. 
> > 
> > recently mailman has not mailed posts to a
> specific
> > list, and I cant 
> > figure out why.
> > I see the mailman post mail being accepted by
> > sendmail and piped to 
> > mailman but mailman does nothing with the post. 
> No
> > trace of the post in 
> > the /usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp or the
> > /usr/local/mailman/logs/post
> > 
> > I cant find a related trace dumped in the mailman
> > error logs.
> > 
> > subscribes and unsubscribes piped to mailman work
> > fine
> > like mail sent to <listname>-subscribe at domain.com
> > gets piped 
> > |/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe
> > <listname> just fine by sendmail
> > mailman sends a confirmation mail just fine as
> well.
> > 
> > there is one file in the
> > /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/shunt directory from 
> > october 7th 2006.
> > 
> > Mailman properly handles and delivers posts to all
> > other lists.  I 
> > really am not sure what else to check.
> > 
> > cheers,
> > 
> > Noah
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > From: Noah <admin2 at enabled.com>
> > To: Mailman Users <mailman-users at python.org>
> > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 08:52:52 -0800
> > Subject: [Mailman-Users] BoundaryError: No
> > terminating boundary and no
> > 	trailing empty line
> > 
> > freebsd-4.11
> > sendmail-8.13.8
> > mailman-2.1.9_1
> > python-2.4.3
> > 
> > 
> > any clues why mailman keeps dumping the following
> > error trace in 
> > /usr/local/mailman/logs/error ?  Happens about
> every
> > hour or so or 
> > sometimes minutes apart.
> > 
> > 
> > --- snip ---
> > 
> > Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Ignoring unparseable
> > message: 
> >
>
1166121349.6141329+c811d30798575d4ca57b9a0552a1d394a95c8ff1
> > Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Uncaught runner
> > exception: No terminating 
> > boundary and no trailing empty line
> > Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Traceback (most
> recent
> > call last):
> >   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py",
> > line 100, in _oneloop
> >     msg, msgdata =
> > self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py",
> > line 164, in 
> > dequeue
> >     msg = email.message_from_string(msg,
> > Message.Message)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init__.py",
> > line 51, in 
> > message_from_string
> >     return Parser(_class,
> strict=strict).parsestr(s)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 75, in parsestr
> >     return self.parse(StringIO(text),
> > headersonly=headersonly)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 64, in parse
> >     self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 240, in 
> > _parsebody
> >     msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 75, in parsestr
> >     return self.parse(StringIO(text),
> > headersonly=headersonly)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 64, in parse
> >     self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 265, in 
> > _parsebody
> >     msg = self.parse(fp)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 64, in parse
> >     self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 206, in 
> > _parsebody
> >     raise Errors.BoundaryError(
> > BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and no
> > trailing empty line
> 
=== message truncated ===> From: AMBROSE CHRISTOPHER
> <ambrose_christopher at yahoo.com>
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 05:02:57 -0800 (PST)
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest,
> Vol 34, Issue 64
> 
> they created ghost log over weekend then were
> corrected by teacher or w/ever admin is.
> --- mailman-users-request at python.org wrote:
> 
> > Send Mailman-Users mailing list submissions to
> > 	mailman-users at python.org
> > 
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide
> Web,
> > visit
> > 
> >
>
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body
> > 'help' to
> > 	mailman-users-request at python.org
> > 
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > 	mailman-users-owner at python.org
> > 
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it
> > is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Mailman-Users digest..."
> > > Today's Topics:
> > 
> >    1. mailman not sending post (Noah)
> >    2. BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and
> no
> > trailing empty
> >       line (Noah)
> >    3. OS X Permissions Help. (Chris Florio)
> >    4. mailman not sending post (Noah)
> >    5. BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and
> no
> > trailing empty
> >       line (Noah)
> >    6. BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and
> no
> > trailing empty
> >       line (Stephen J. Turnbull)
> >    7. Re: BoundaryError: No terminating boundary
> and
> > no	trailing
> >       empty line (Brad Knowles)
> >    8. Re: mailman not sending post (Brad Knowles)
> > > From: Noah <admin2 at enabled.com>
> > To: Mailman Users <mailman-users at python.org>
> > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 07:28:07 -0800
> > Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not sending post
> > 
> > Hi there,
> > 
> > mailman-2.1.9
> > sendmail 8.13.8
> > python-2.4.3
> > freebsd-4.11
> > 
> > 
> > Mailman has been running on my machine for years. 
> 
> > I host about 50 or 
> > so lists with virtual hostnames being sued for
> some
> > of them. 
> > 
> > recently mailman has not mailed posts to a
> specific
> > list, and I cant 
> > figure out why.
> > I see the mailman post mail being accepted by
> > sendmail and piped to 
> > mailman but mailman does nothing with the post. 
> No
> > trace of the post in 
> > the /usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp or the
> > /usr/local/mailman/logs/post
> > 
> > I cant find a related trace dumped in the mailman
> > error logs.
> > 
> > subscribes and unsubscribes piped to mailman work
> > fine
> > like mail sent to <listname>-subscribe at domain.com
> > gets piped 
> > |/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe
> > <listname> just fine by sendmail
> > mailman sends a confirmation mail just fine as
> well.
> > 
> > there is one file in the
> > /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/shunt directory from 
> > october 7th 2006.
> > 
> > Mailman properly handles and delivers posts to all
> > other lists.  I 
> > really am not sure what else to check.
> > 
> > cheers,
> > 
> > Noah
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > From: Noah <admin2 at enabled.com>
> > To: Mailman Users <mailman-users at python.org>
> > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 08:52:52 -0800
> > Subject: [Mailman-Users] BoundaryError: No
> > terminating boundary and no
> > 	trailing empty line
> > 
> > freebsd-4.11
> > sendmail-8.13.8
> > mailman-2.1.9_1
> > python-2.4.3
> > 
> > 
> > any clues why mailman keeps dumping the following
> > error trace in 
> > /usr/local/mailman/logs/error ?  Happens about
> every
> > hour or so or 
> > sometimes minutes apart.
> > 
> > 
> > --- snip ---
> > 
> > Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Ignoring unparseable
> > message: 
> >
>
1166121349.6141329+c811d30798575d4ca57b9a0552a1d394a95c8ff1
> > Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Uncaught runner
> > exception: No terminating 
> > boundary and no trailing empty line
> > Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Traceback (most
> recent
> > call last):
> >   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py",
> > line 100, in _oneloop
> >     msg, msgdata =
> > self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py",
> > line 164, in 
> > dequeue
> >     msg = email.message_from_string(msg,
> > Message.Message)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init__.py",
> > line 51, in 
> > message_from_string
> >     return Parser(_class,
> strict=strict).parsestr(s)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 75, in parsestr
> >     return self.parse(StringIO(text),
> > headersonly=headersonly)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 64, in parse
> >     self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 240, in 
> > _parsebody
> >     msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 75, in parsestr
> >     return self.parse(StringIO(text),
> > headersonly=headersonly)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 64, in parse
> >     self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 265, in 
> > _parsebody
> >     msg = self.parse(fp)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 64, in parse
> >     self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 206, in 
> > _parsebody
> >     raise Errors.BoundaryError(
> > BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and no
> > trailing empty line
> 
=== message truncated ===>
------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
>
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From ambrose_christopher at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 27 17:03:08 2006
From: ambrose_christopher at yahoo.com (AMBROSE CHRISTOPHER)
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 08:03:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 34, Issue 65
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6005.1167225021.32030.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <261638.95547.qm@web50915.mail.yahoo.com>

when migrating archive did twice on accident,we used
to call a sink hole.
--- mailman-users-request at python.org wrote:

> Send Mailman-Users mailing list submissions to
> 	mailman-users at python.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web,
> visit
> 
>
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body
> 'help' to
> 	mailman-users-request at python.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	mailman-users-owner at python.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it
> is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Mailman-Users digest..."
> > Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 34, Issue 64
> (AMBROSE CHRISTOPHER)
>    2. Re: Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 34, Issue 64
> (AMBROSE CHRISTOPHER)
> > From: AMBROSE CHRISTOPHER
> <ambrose_christopher at yahoo.com>
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 04:59:05 -0800 (PST)
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest,
> Vol 34, Issue 64
> 
> 
> --- mailman-users-request at python.org wrote:
> 
> > Send Mailman-Users mailing list submissions to
> > 	mailman-users at python.org
> > 
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide
> Web,
> > visit
> > 
> >
>
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body
> > 'help' to
> > 	mailman-users-request at python.org
> > check last couple days mail,you have answer,is
> double up.
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > 	mailman-users-owner at python.org
> > 
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it
> > is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Mailman-Users digest..."
> > > Today's Topics:
> > 
> >    1. mailman not sending post (Noah)
> >    2. BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and
> no
> > trailing empty
> >       line (Noah)
> >    3. OS X Permissions Help. (Chris Florio)
> >    4. mailman not sending post (Noah)
> >    5. BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and
> no
> > trailing empty
> >       line (Noah)
> >    6. BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and
> no
> > trailing empty
> >       line (Stephen J. Turnbull)
> >    7. Re: BoundaryError: No terminating boundary
> and
> > no	trailing
> >       empty line (Brad Knowles)
> >    8. Re: mailman not sending post (Brad Knowles)
> > > From: Noah <admin2 at enabled.com>
> > To: Mailman Users <mailman-users at python.org>
> > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 07:28:07 -0800
> > Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not sending post
> > 
> > Hi there,
> > 
> > mailman-2.1.9
> > sendmail 8.13.8
> > python-2.4.3
> > freebsd-4.11
> > 
> > 
> > Mailman has been running on my machine for years. 
> 
> > I host about 50 or 
> > so lists with virtual hostnames being sued for
> some
> > of them. 
> > 
> > recently mailman has not mailed posts to a
> specific
> > list, and I cant 
> > figure out why.
> > I see the mailman post mail being accepted by
> > sendmail and piped to 
> > mailman but mailman does nothing with the post. 
> No
> > trace of the post in 
> > the /usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp or the
> > /usr/local/mailman/logs/post
> > 
> > I cant find a related trace dumped in the mailman
> > error logs.
> > 
> > subscribes and unsubscribes piped to mailman work
> > fine
> > like mail sent to <listname>-subscribe at domain.com
> > gets piped 
> > |/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe
> > <listname> just fine by sendmail
> > mailman sends a confirmation mail just fine as
> well.
> > 
> > there is one file in the
> > /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/shunt directory from 
> > october 7th 2006.
> > 
> > Mailman properly handles and delivers posts to all
> > other lists.  I 
> > really am not sure what else to check.
> > 
> > cheers,
> > 
> > Noah
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > From: Noah <admin2 at enabled.com>
> > To: Mailman Users <mailman-users at python.org>
> > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 08:52:52 -0800
> > Subject: [Mailman-Users] BoundaryError: No
> > terminating boundary and no
> > 	trailing empty line
> > 
> > freebsd-4.11
> > sendmail-8.13.8
> > mailman-2.1.9_1
> > python-2.4.3
> > 
> > 
> > any clues why mailman keeps dumping the following
> > error trace in 
> > /usr/local/mailman/logs/error ?  Happens about
> every
> > hour or so or 
> > sometimes minutes apart.
> > 
> > 
> > --- snip ---
> > 
> > Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Ignoring unparseable
> > message: 
> >
>
1166121349.6141329+c811d30798575d4ca57b9a0552a1d394a95c8ff1
> > Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Uncaught runner
> > exception: No terminating 
> > boundary and no trailing empty line
> > Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Traceback (most
> recent
> > call last):
> >   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py",
> > line 100, in _oneloop
> >     msg, msgdata =
> > self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py",
> > line 164, in 
> > dequeue
> >     msg = email.message_from_string(msg,
> > Message.Message)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init__.py",
> > line 51, in 
> > message_from_string
> >     return Parser(_class,
> strict=strict).parsestr(s)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 75, in parsestr
> >     return self.parse(StringIO(text),
> > headersonly=headersonly)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 64, in parse
> >     self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 240, in 
> > _parsebody
> >     msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 75, in parsestr
> >     return self.parse(StringIO(text),
> > headersonly=headersonly)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 64, in parse
> >     self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 265, in 
> > _parsebody
> >     msg = self.parse(fp)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 64, in parse
> >     self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 206, in 
> > _parsebody
> >     raise Errors.BoundaryError(
> > BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and no
> > trailing empty line
> 
=== message truncated ===> From: AMBROSE CHRISTOPHER
> <ambrose_christopher at yahoo.com>
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 05:02:57 -0800 (PST)
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest,
> Vol 34, Issue 64
> 
> they created ghost log over weekend then were
> corrected by teacher or w/ever admin is.
> --- mailman-users-request at python.org wrote:
> 
> > Send Mailman-Users mailing list submissions to
> > 	mailman-users at python.org
> > 
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide
> Web,
> > visit
> > 
> >
>
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body
> > 'help' to
> > 	mailman-users-request at python.org
> > 
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > 	mailman-users-owner at python.org
> > 
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it
> > is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Mailman-Users digest..."
> > > Today's Topics:
> > 
> >    1. mailman not sending post (Noah)
> >    2. BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and
> no
> > trailing empty
> >       line (Noah)
> >    3. OS X Permissions Help. (Chris Florio)
> >    4. mailman not sending post (Noah)
> >    5. BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and
> no
> > trailing empty
> >       line (Noah)
> >    6. BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and
> no
> > trailing empty
> >       line (Stephen J. Turnbull)
> >    7. Re: BoundaryError: No terminating boundary
> and
> > no	trailing
> >       empty line (Brad Knowles)
> >    8. Re: mailman not sending post (Brad Knowles)
> > > From: Noah <admin2 at enabled.com>
> > To: Mailman Users <mailman-users at python.org>
> > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 07:28:07 -0800
> > Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not sending post
> > 
> > Hi there,
> > 
> > mailman-2.1.9
> > sendmail 8.13.8
> > python-2.4.3
> > freebsd-4.11
> > 
> > 
> > Mailman has been running on my machine for years. 
> 
> > I host about 50 or 
> > so lists with virtual hostnames being sued for
> some
> > of them. 
> > 
> > recently mailman has not mailed posts to a
> specific
> > list, and I cant 
> > figure out why.
> > I see the mailman post mail being accepted by
> > sendmail and piped to 
> > mailman but mailman does nothing with the post. 
> No
> > trace of the post in 
> > the /usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp or the
> > /usr/local/mailman/logs/post
> > 
> > I cant find a related trace dumped in the mailman
> > error logs.
> > 
> > subscribes and unsubscribes piped to mailman work
> > fine
> > like mail sent to <listname>-subscribe at domain.com
> > gets piped 
> > |/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe
> > <listname> just fine by sendmail
> > mailman sends a confirmation mail just fine as
> well.
> > 
> > there is one file in the
> > /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/shunt directory from 
> > october 7th 2006.
> > 
> > Mailman properly handles and delivers posts to all
> > other lists.  I 
> > really am not sure what else to check.
> > 
> > cheers,
> > 
> > Noah
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > From: Noah <admin2 at enabled.com>
> > To: Mailman Users <mailman-users at python.org>
> > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 08:52:52 -0800
> > Subject: [Mailman-Users] BoundaryError: No
> > terminating boundary and no
> > 	trailing empty line
> > 
> > freebsd-4.11
> > sendmail-8.13.8
> > mailman-2.1.9_1
> > python-2.4.3
> > 
> > 
> > any clues why mailman keeps dumping the following
> > error trace in 
> > /usr/local/mailman/logs/error ?  Happens about
> every
> > hour or so or 
> > sometimes minutes apart.
> > 
> > 
> > --- snip ---
> > 
> > Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Ignoring unparseable
> > message: 
> >
>
1166121349.6141329+c811d30798575d4ca57b9a0552a1d394a95c8ff1
> > Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Uncaught runner
> > exception: No terminating 
> > boundary and no trailing empty line
> > Dec 26 08:27:28 2006 (75889) Traceback (most
> recent
> > call last):
> >   File
> "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py",
> > line 100, in _oneloop
> >     msg, msgdata =
> > self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py",
> > line 164, in 
> > dequeue
> >     msg = email.message_from_string(msg,
> > Message.Message)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init__.py",
> > line 51, in 
> > message_from_string
> >     return Parser(_class,
> strict=strict).parsestr(s)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 75, in parsestr
> >     return self.parse(StringIO(text),
> > headersonly=headersonly)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 64, in parse
> >     self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 240, in 
> > _parsebody
> >     msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 75, in parsestr
> >     return self.parse(StringIO(text),
> > headersonly=headersonly)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 64, in parse
> >     self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 265, in 
> > _parsebody
> >     msg = self.parse(fp)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 64, in parse
> >     self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
> >   File
> > "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py",
> line
> > 206, in 
> > _parsebody
> >     raise Errors.BoundaryError(
> > BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and no
> > trailing empty line
> 
=== message truncated ===>
------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
>
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Dec 27 18:41:59 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 11:41:59 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 34, Issue 64
In-Reply-To: <718679.70670.qm@web50909.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.22.1167217208.29951.mailman-users@python.org>
	<718679.70670.qm@web50909.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00612270941m2da3774et5c6df334f4781e1e@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/27/06, AMBROSE CHRISTOPHER <ambrose_christopher at yahoo.com> wrote:
( a whole lot. Snipped. )

Please, do not reply to digests and include the entire digest. I have
no idea what you were trying to ask, because I am not going to read
through however many pages of text that is to find out.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From ambrose_christopher at yahoo.com  Wed Dec 27 20:56:21 2006
From: ambrose_christopher at yahoo.com (AMBROSE CHRISTOPHER)
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 11:56:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 34, Issue 66
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6019.1167241320.32030.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <193986.1071.qm@web50908.mail.yahoo.com>

Sorry wont reply again was just the reason for the problem earlier was trying to send you guys but guess its fixed,wasnt q.ty









 On 12/27/06, AMBROSE CHRISTOPHER  wrote:
( a whole lot. Snipped. )

Please, do not reply to digests and include the entire digest. I have
no idea what you were trying to ask, because I am not going to read
through however many pages of text that is to find out.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

 __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From admin2 at enabled.com  Thu Dec 28 02:39:03 2006
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 17:39:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not sending post
In-Reply-To: <p06240501c1b7a5da6e18@[172.16.1.2]>
References: <4591B7F7.30501@enabled.com> <p06240501c1b7a5da6e18@[172.16.1.2]>
Message-ID: <45932037.7060609@enabled.com>


>
> Make sure to take a look in the FAQ wizard -- there's lots of good 
> troubleshooting tips in there. In fact, I recommend that you search on 
> the word "troubleshooting", among other things.
>

Thanks Brad for the recommendation. I am still running into trouble.

I host about 200 mail lists and one mail list in particular is no longer 
sending out posts. It is able to process subscribe and unsubscribe 
requests via email just fine.

The name of the list is ?announce? I have entries for the list in my 
virtusertable file and I have entries in the aliases.mailman file.

The list name ?announce2? with a fairly basic configuration works fine 
was also entered in the aliases.mailman and virtusertable. Posts to 
?announce2? are sent just fine.

I searched through the mailman FAQ and found ?3.14. Troubleshooting: No 
mail going out to lists members? And below is the output and status from the

Mailman-2.1.9_1 from FreeBSD /usr/ports
FreeBSD-4.11
Sendmail-8.13.8
Python-2.4.3

The mailman FAQ troubleshooting steps were not helpful for providing 
clues and/or correcting my current problem. I am wondering if there are 
other recommendations that I should consider. Here is the relevant 
output and troubleshooting steps I have taken so far:


0) check perms

# ~mailman/bin/check_perms -f
No problems found
#


1) check if mailmanctl is running

# ps auxww| grep mailmanctl |grep -v grep
mailman 97350 0.0 0.3 7628 6272 ?? Is 1:03AM 0:00.03 
/usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start


2) check aliases and virtusertable for list entries

# !grep
grep announce aliases*
aliases.mailman:announce: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post announce"
aliases.mailman:announce-admin: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin 
announce"
aliases.mailman:announce-bounces: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman 
bounces announce"
aliases.mailman:announce-confirm: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman 
confirm announce"
aliases.mailman:announce-join: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join 
announce"
aliases.mailman:announce-leave: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave 
announce"
aliases.mailman:announce-owner: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner 
announce"
aliases.mailman:announce-request: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman 
request announce"
aliases.mailman:announce-subscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman 
subscribe announce"
aliases.mailman:announce-unsubscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman 
unsubscribe announce"
Binary file aliases.mailman.db matches
# newaliases
/etc/mail/aliases.mailman: 390 aliases, longest 69 bytes, 26928 bytes total
/etc/mail/aliases.hosting: 3 aliases, longest 47 bytes, 137 bytes total
/etc/mail/aliases: 914 aliases, longest 51 bytes, 13353 bytes total
/etc/mail/aliases.rt: 13 aliases, longest 110 bytes, 1450 bytes total

# grep announce virtusertable
announce at domainname.here announce
announce-admin at domainname.here announce-admin
announce-bounces at domainname.here announce-bounces
announce-confirm at domainname.here announce-confirm
announce-join at domainname.here announce-join
announce-leave at domainname.here announce-leave
announce-owner at domainname.here announce-owner
announce-request at domainname.here announce-request
announce-subscribe at domainname.here announce-subscribe
announce-unsubscribe at domainname.here announce-unsubscribe


# make
# make all
# make restart
/bin/kill -HUP `head -1 /var/run/sendmail.pid`


3) check Smrsh

not running smrsh

# pwd
/etc/mail
# grep "smrsh" sendmail.cf


4) Interface

Added SMTPHOST = '<ip of my mailserver>' to ~mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py

Also from ~mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py

SENDMAIL_CMD = '/usr/sbin/sendmail'

5) check qrunner

they are running fine. All other lists are deliverying mail.

# ps -auxww | grep qrunner
mailman 45370 0.0 0.3 7584 6232 ?? I 9:57AM 0:00.25 
/usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner 
--runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
mailman 45369 0.1 0.4 8724 7396 ?? S 9:57AM 0:00.43 
/usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner 
--runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
mailman 45368 0.0 0.4 8712 7340 ?? S 9:57AM 0:00.50 
/usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner 
--runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman 45367 0.0 0.3 7600 6276 ?? S 9:57AM 0:00.32 
/usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner 
--runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
mailman 45366 0.0 0.4 8716 7388 ?? S 9:57AM 0:00.47 
/usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner 
--runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman 45365 0.0 0.3 7588 6236 ?? S 9:57AM 0:00.33 
/usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner 
--runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
mailman 45364 0.0 0.3 8656 7220 ?? S 9:57AM 0:00.85 
/usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner 
--runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
mailman 45363 0.0 0.3 7588 6236 ?? S 9:57AM 0:00.34 
/usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner 
--runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
root 47159 0.0 0.0 308 168 p0 R+ 10:01AM 0:00.00 grep qrunner


6) locks.


# ls -l ~mailman/locks
total 4
-rw-rw-r-- 2 mailman mailman 65 Dec 28 15:57 master-qrunner
-rw-rw-r-- 2 mailman mailman 65 Dec 28 15:57 
master-qrunner.host.name.com.45362

# ps auxww | grep 45362 | grep -v grep
mailman 45362 0.0 0.3 7624 6288 ?? Is 9:57AM 0:00.02 
/usr/local/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start


7) Logs.

The incoming post email to announce arrives and sendmail dumps a line or 
two to /var/log/sendmail to acknowledge receipt of the email. There are 
no relevant entries showing up in:
/usr/local/mailman/logs/error
/usr/local/mailman/logs/post
/usr/local/mailman/logs/vette
/usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp
/usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp-failure

there is no file called /usr/local/mailman/logs/config


8) Qfiles.

Not able to find any ?clogged? messages in ~mailman/qfiles ? will keep 
on checking.


9) SMTPHOST

Did this already added an SMTPHOST = '<ip of my mailserver>' line to the 
~mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py file

10) Sendmail + mm-handler


When testing sendmail manually from the shell on the local machine. I 
still see the relevant log lines from sendmail in /var/log/maillog 
showing the email was received and piped to mailman but nothing ends up 
in the mailman mail logs. I checked:

/usr/local/mailman/logs/error
/usr/local/mailman/logs/post
/usr/local/mailman/logs/vette
/usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp
/usr/local/mailman/logs/smtp-failure

there is no file called /usr/local/mailman/logs/config







From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Dec 28 07:24:45 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 15:24:45 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not sending post
In-Reply-To: <45932037.7060609@enabled.com>
References: <4591B7F7.30501@enabled.com> <p06240501c1b7a5da6e18@[172.16.1.2]>
	<45932037.7060609@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <87irfwleqa.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Noah writes:

 > 7) Logs.
 > 
 > The incoming post email to announce arrives and sendmail dumps a line or 
 > two to /var/log/sendmail to acknowledge receipt of the email.

If you can post the relevant log entries, that might be helpful.  (Of
course be careful that you're not revealing anything proprietary; many
sites worry about posting domain names and internal IP addresses.  If
you substitute for them one-to-one, so that they can be unambiguously
matched across log entries that should be good enough.)

Sendmail should be recording not just receipt of the mail, but the
disposition as well.  Are those entries missing?  Have you checked
sendmail's queue(s)?  (eg, run mailq)

The name "announce" rings bells; it's a typical name for a one-way
list with specific restricted posters.  Do you perhaps have more
strict posting rules and the like for that list?  Have you checked the
moderation interface?  (NB, held posts should show up in qfiles, and I
think also an entry in vette, as I understand it.  You say there's
nothing unusual there, but the moderation interface is low-cost to
check if you haven't already done it.)


From ubwarren at gmx.net  Thu Dec 28 10:25:34 2006
From: ubwarren at gmx.net (ubw@gmx)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 10:25:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list names  and  virtual domains
Message-ID: <45938D8E.5070001@gmx.net>

Having been charged temporarily of a certain service, I've been asked to
solve in this period the following problem:

on a machine running many different virtual hosts, each time that a new
list is created with mailman, mailman adds to the list name the full
virtual domain name.

I mean: if I create a list called
                                       TEST at myhost.org
in mailman it becomes
                                        TEST_MYHOST.ORG at myhost.org

and I feel that this situation is quite odd.

I tryed to browse in the archives, but -due to my inexperience- I'm not
sure which is the correct definition of the problem, because I found
among others the following answers that do not seem to fullfill exactly
my situation:

http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg33883.html
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg27586.html
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg14528.html
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg23031.html
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg17300.html
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg29439.html
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp


I'll be very thankful to anyone giving me a helping hand!

thanks a lot for your patience

          UB Warren







From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Dec 28 16:32:00 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 00:32:00 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not sending post
In-Reply-To: <459363C9.9090406@enabled.com>
References: <4591B7F7.30501@enabled.com> <p06240501c1b7a5da6e18@[172.16.1.2]>
	<45932037.7060609@enabled.com>
	<87irfwleqa.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<459363C9.9090406@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <87d564kpe7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

Noah writes:

 > thanks for following up.  we just solved the problem.

Good!

 > it was a misused wildcard in the mailman filter rules.  I might
 > have missed it but it feels like there is not enough verbose output
 > in the mailman logs files to tell me that a message was filtered
 > and an entry explaining the corresponding filter rule.

I agree, but fixing that will require hacking the main sources.  The
problem is that currently there is no place to record a reason in the
"event" that occurs when a message is discarded.  I don't think it is
"hard", but it will require one of the core developers.

If you can explain what it is you want, then a post to the bug tracker
http://sourceforge.net/bugs/?group_id=103 would probably help a lot of
people (I think anybody who hasn't lost data to an inappropriate
wildcard probably never had any data to lose!), if something can be
implemented.  Besides the basic "log the rule" request, the important
thing I can think of is where you would expect to see the log message.

There's a similar existing bug at

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=908819&group_id=103&atid=100103

and a related patch

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=869394&group_id=103&atid=300103

Neither is quite what you asked for, though.



From ambrose_christopher at yahoo.com  Thu Dec 28 20:43:53 2006
From: ambrose_christopher at yahoo.com (AMBROSE CHRISTOPHER)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 11:43:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 34, Issue 67
In-Reply-To: <mailman.22.1167303609.12114.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <898185.59182.qm@web50915.mail.yahoo.com>


I am, since talking to you developing errors galore in
my system, with same boundry messages and it has
serious effect not just some undirected emails and is
getting worse. I will take care of but the time jibes
with when i visited you guys,it looks to be some sort
of protected streaming messages that attach to other
folders, and I can actually see things in my
directories that are new but larger than this thing
appeared to be when i first saw it.I think its a bug.
and i think your place where came from,and i think it
duplicates files creating situation to prompt some
user action it needs and your file just hidden. one
other thing it mentions bios exploit, thought bios
safe like real safe? If you watch assoc. list in exe.
can see more files if wait an hour.anyway if fixed 
disregard ,if not gl.  P>S it also says tony zhang.
you guys dont sound chinese  but fyi.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From pwgdarchive at gmail.com  Fri Dec 29 08:01:38 2006
From: pwgdarchive at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Benjamin_Melan=E7on?=)
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 02:01:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cron logrotate error
Message-ID: <1406bb8f0612282301n473b4373v63ed4d134ba8f15f@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Mailman experts,

Here's a nice, low-key, thoroughly unimportant error (I hope).

It's caused because /var/lib/texmf doesn't exist (although we have
more files than anyone could want in /usr/share/texmf).  Does anyone
know offhand the proper resolution?

This is on CentOS  (red hat enterprise 4) with an rpm-installed
Mailman and with Webmin.

Here's the full issue with cron:

 /etc/cron.daily/logrotate:

 error: error running shared postrotate script for
/var/log/mailman/bounce /var/log/mailman/digest /var/log/mailman/error
/var/log/mailman/post /var/log/mailman/smtp
/var/log/mailman/smtp-failure /var/log/mailman/qrunner
/var/log/mailman/locks /var/log/mailman/fromusenet
/var/log/mailman/subscribe /var/log/mailman/vette
 /etc/cron.daily/tetex.cron:

error: lstat() of directory /var/lib/texmf failed: No such file or directory

Thank you very much,

ben

Agaric Design Collective
Open Source Web Development
http://AgaricDesign.com/

From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Dec 29 08:22:41 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 01:22:41 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cron logrotate error
In-Reply-To: <1406bb8f0612282301n473b4373v63ed4d134ba8f15f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1406bb8f0612282301n473b4373v63ed4d134ba8f15f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00612282322p710e24edkb86c03930899e30@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/29/06, Benjamin Melan?on <pwgdarchive at gmail.com> wrote:
> Here's a nice, low-key, thoroughly unimportant error (I hope).
>
> It's caused because /var/lib/texmf doesn't exist (although we have
> more files than anyone could want in /usr/share/texmf).  Does anyone
> know offhand the proper resolution?
>
> This is on CentOS  (red hat enterprise 4) with an rpm-installed
> Mailman and with Webmin.
>
> Here's the full issue with cron:
>
>  /etc/cron.daily/logrotate:

This is almost certainly a CentOS issue, as (as far as I know) Mailman
doesn't handle it's own log rotation. You're better off seeking help
on a CentOS-centric mailing list.

-- 
- Patrick Bogen

From anne.ramey at ncmail.net  Fri Dec 29 18:57:39 2006
From: anne.ramey at ncmail.net (Anne Ramey)
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 12:57:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing members with non-standard characters
In-Reply-To: <PC1760200612151525340937b0be694b@msapiro>
References: <PC1760200612151525340937b0be694b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <45955713.9070808@ncmail.net>


Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Anne Ramey wrote:
>   
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>     
>
>   
>>> Try this one
>>>
>>>   bin/list_members -i listname | bin/remove_members -f - -n listname
>>>
>>> If that doesn't work, see <http://veenet.value.net/~msapiro/scripts/>
>>> or <http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/scripts/> for a link to an
>>> experimental withlist script that should do it.
>>>
>>>   
>>>       
>> Miracle of miracles, this appears to have worked.  Thank you so much.
>>     
>
>
> Which worked, the list_members -i | remove_members pipe or the withlist
> script?
>
>   
The list_members -i | remove_members pipe is what worked for me.



From ptomblin at xcski.com  Fri Dec 29 19:01:55 2006
From: ptomblin at xcski.com (Paul Tomblin)
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 13:01:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cron logrotate error
In-Reply-To: <1406bb8f0612282301n473b4373v63ed4d134ba8f15f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1406bb8f0612282301n473b4373v63ed4d134ba8f15f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20061229180155.GA28688@allhats.xcski.com>

Quoting Benjamin Melan?on (pwgdarchive at gmail.com):
>  /etc/cron.daily/tetex.cron:
> 
> error: lstat() of directory /var/lib/texmf failed: No such file or directory

This isn't even a Mailman issue, it's with tetex.cron.  Do you have
tetex-fonts rpm installed?  If so, you might want to remove it and
reinstall it.

-- 
Paul Tomblin <ptomblin at xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
People who love sausages, respect the law, and work with IT standards
shouldn't watch any of them being made.
              -- Peter Gutmann

From fholson at cohousing.org  Sat Dec 30 23:48:00 2006
From: fholson at cohousing.org (Fred H Olson)
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 14:48:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman with searchable Mhonarc archives
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0612301433360.31883@farnsworth.tigertech.net>

On Thu, 07 Dec 2006  Barry Warsaw wrote in a message:
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman archive messages(not rm, but install!)

> And now you see why Pipermail never gets much better.  ;)
>
> I'm not blaming you personally of course, it's just that I think when
> people feel enough pain from Pipermail, rather than try to scratch
> that itch, they'd rather spend the time integrating a better archiver.
>
> I've always said that Pipermail is bundled solely to make it easy for
> people to have a complete solution out of the box.  I don't have much
> interest in bundling some other (non-Python) archiver with the source
> distro, although I'd have no problems with downstream packagers doing
> that if they wanted to.

I dont know anything about bundling distros and such but I am very pleased
with the installation my ISP ( http://justcomm.org/#tigertech ) has of
Mailman with searchable Mhonarc archives. I wish someone would create
such a package.

With 25,000 messages of http://lists.cohousing.org/archives/cohousing-L/
or a little list with my sibs when I wanted to find when my son's cat
died... they just work.

I only have list owner access to the MM web admin interface
(plus my ISP's admin interface to create a new MM list).
But I only have to request special assistance once in a while.

Fred, http://justcomm.org

-- 
Fred H. Olson  Minneapolis,MN 55411  USA        (near north Mpls)
Communications for Justice - My new listserv org.       UU, Linux
My Link Page: http://fholson.cohousing.org       Ham radio:WB0YQM
fholson at cohousing.org   612-588-9532   (7am-10pm Central time)


From vancleef at lostwells.net  Sun Dec 31 00:56:21 2006
From: vancleef at lostwells.net (Hank van Cleef)
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 16:56:21 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using demime with Mailman
Message-ID: <200612302356.kBUNuMv0014718@bronze.lostwells.net>

I'm in the process of setting up a system to host Mailman lists
which will replace another system at another site.  The other site has
sent me a copy of their /usr/lib/mailman tree, so I can examine their
configuration and copy list-specific files, and have a Beta-test
version running.

Major problem with all of the funny-formats included in mails these
days.  Mails from specific users are just being passed through with 
no reformatting.  On the old site, it's clear that Demime is being
used.  However, I can find nothing in the old Mailman tree indicating
that it's installed.  

Hank

For reference:
Mailman 2.1.9
Python 2.5
Solaris 8 9/05 on Sun Ultra 10 (Sparc system)
Sun Studio 11 devsys used to compile.

Old configuration:  Mailman-2.1.4

Migration was to build a new 2.1.4 tree, create the list, than move
the old list's config.pck to the new one.  Then install 2.1.9 as an
upgrade to the 2.1.4 tree.  
-- 
Hank van Cleef (vancleef at lostwells.net, hvanclee at nyx.net)

From heather at madrone.com  Sun Dec 31 02:00:23 2006
From: heather at madrone.com (Heather Madrone)
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 17:00:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using demime with Mailman
In-Reply-To: <200612302356.kBUNuMv0014718@bronze.lostwells.net>
References: <200612302356.kBUNuMv0014718@bronze.lostwells.net>
Message-ID: <p06230920c1bcba2d4ce5@[192.168.123.137]>

At 4:56 PM -0700 12/30/06, Hank van Cleef wrote:
>I'm in the process of setting up a system to host Mailman lists
>which will replace another system at another site.  The other site has
>sent me a copy of their /usr/lib/mailman tree, so I can examine their
>configuration and copy list-specific files, and have a Beta-test
>version running.
>
>Major problem with all of the funny-formats included in mails these
>days.  Mails from specific users are just being passed through with
>no reformatting.  On the old site, it's clear that Demime is being
>used.  However, I can find nothing in the old Mailman tree indicating
>that it's installed. 

I don't think you need Demime with Mailman. Mailman includes similar
functionality if you configure it right.

Go to the Content filtering section on the administrative pages.

Click "Yes" for "Should Mailman filter the content of list traffic
according to the settings below?"

In the "Remove message attachments that don't have a matching
content type" box, enter the following:

    multipart/mixed
    multipart/alternative
    text/plain

Click "Yes" for "Should Mailman convert text/html parts to plain text?"

-- 
Heather Madrone <heather at madrone.com>
The Home-Ed List:  http://www.madrone.com/Home-ed/helist.html

You can lead a child to learning, but you can't make her think.