From sean at adoptionmedia.com  Thu Sep  1 02:35:59 2005
From: sean at adoptionmedia.com (Sean Roe)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 17:35:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] startup error in mailman
In-Reply-To: <4315DBE3.8000403@adoptionmedia.com>
References: <4315DBE3.8000403@adoptionmedia.com>
Message-ID: <43164CEF.9030109@adoptionmedia.com>

Figured it out.  The user connecting to the mysql database did not have 
create rights, so it was failing to create the default table.

Thanks,
Sean

Sean Roe wrote:

>Hi All,
>
>I am getting the following error whenever I start up mailman:
>
>mailman01:/var/lib/mailman/Mailman# ../bin/mailmanctl start
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "../bin/mailmanctl", line 547, in ?
>    main()
>  File "../bin/mailmanctl", line 366, in main
>    check_for_site_list()
>  File "../bin/mailmanctl", line 276, in check_for_site_list
>    sitelist = MailList(sitelistname, lock=0)
>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 104, in __init__
>    self._memberadaptor = MysqlMemberships(self)
>  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MysqlMemberships.py", line 118, in __init__
>    self.cursor.execute ("""CREATE TABLE IF NOT EXISTS %s (
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/MySQLdb/cursors.py", line 137, 
>in execute
>    self.errorhandler(self, exc, value)
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/MySQLdb/connections.py", line 
>33, in defaulterrorhandler
>    raise errorclass, errorvalue
>_mysql_exceptions.OperationalError: (1044, "Access denied for user 
>'web_site'@'192.168.%' to database 'mailman'")
>Exception exceptions.AttributeError: "MysqlMemberships instance has no 
>attribute 'conn'" in <bound method MysqlMemberships.__del__ of 
><Mailman.MysqlMemberships.MysqlMemberships instance at 0x404645ec>> ignored
>
>Mailman no longer starts at this point.
>
>Nothing has changed that I am aware of, I have connected from the 
>mailman server to the database server with the mysql client using the 
>same username and password and was successful, so I am at a loss.  Any 
>suggestions would be helpful.
>
>Thanks,
>Sean
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/sean%40adoptionmedia.com
>
>Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>  
>



From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Sep  1 03:52:07 2005
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 10:52:07 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails coming through as "maillist-bounces" -
 is this normal?
In-Reply-To: <20050830162633.43D9F1E4280@bag.python.org>
	(memmott@hitcatcher.com's
	message of "Tue, 30 Aug 2005 11:59:11 -0400")
References: <20050830162633.43D9F1E4280@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <87wtm1o8qg.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "memmott" == memmott  <@ HitCatcher.com" <memmott at hitcatcher.com>> writes:

    memmott> A client of ours has a mailman list set up called
    memmott> awake at domain.org. For some reason, when anybody posts to
    memmott> this list, the return address of the list comes across as
    memmott> "awake-bounces at domain.org
    memmott> [mailto:awake-bounces at domain.org] On Behalf Of firstname
    memmott> lastname"

AFAIK this is an Outlook-specific bug, and not a Mailman issue.  What
is happening is that Outlook is ignoring the "From" header and using
either the "Sender" header or the envelope sender as the return
address.  This is in violation of the Internet standards for mail
clients.

I realize that it's hard to get users to change their mail clients,
but that is the right solution to this problem.

    memmott> Anyways, is this the default behavior/ Is there any way
    memmott> to force it to send out emails as awake at domain.org and
    memmott> not awake-bounces?

Mailman does not "send out mail as itself" in the default
configuration; it simply forwards the mail and leaves the author's
address in place.  However, because it is sending mail to many
addresses which may or may not be valid, it lists itself as the
"Sender" so that delivery problems will be referred to Mailman, and
not to the author.

It is not possible to configure Mailman to use a different Sender.
This is to protect your list from being spammed by returns of
undeliverable mail.

-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Sep  1 04:00:04 2005
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 11:00:04 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] max_num_recipients variable question
In-Reply-To: <BF3B2BDF.7B18%jwblist@olympus.net> (John W. Baxter's message
	of "Wed, 31 Aug 2005 09:41:51 -0700")
References: <BF3B2BDF.7B18%jwblist@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <87slwpo8d7.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "John" == John W Baxter <jwblist at olympus.net> writes:

    John> But yes, 10 recipients known to Mailman is the limit as set
    John> up by the default value.  Personally, I prefer a setting of
    John> 1 (I hate broadcasting addresses into a mailing list).

Does that actually work?  Although 10 is too many (I don't think I've
ever seen a non-spam/troll with more than 5 including the list on the
lists I manage), most of the lists I manage have occasional valid
reasons for cross-posting or adding non-member recipients.  I would
think the inconvenience would be greater with restriction to 1.

-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Sep  1 06:54:32 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 21:54:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error during mailman runs
In-Reply-To: <43148EA6.7000500@adoptionmedia.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200508312154320437951c7db5@msapiro>

Sean Roe wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>>Sean Roe wrote:
>>  
>>
>>>I am getting the following errors durring mailman runs:
>>>
>>>mailman01:/var/lib/mailman/qfiles/out# Traceback (most recent call last):
>>> File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
>>>   main()
>>> File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
>>>   qrunner.run()
>>> File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 87, in run
>>>   self._cleanup()
>>> File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 220, in 
>>>_cleanup
>>>   BounceMixin._cleanup(self)
>>> File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 132, in 
>>>_cleanup
>>>   self._register_bounces()
>>> File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 120, in 
>>>_register_bounces
>>>   mlist.registerBounce(addr, msg, day=day)
>>> File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py", line 108, in registerBounce
>>>   info = self.getBounceInfo(member)
>>> File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MysqlMemberships.py", line 530, in 
>>>getBounceInfo
>>>   row[2], row[0])
>>>TypeError: __init__() takes exactly 5 arguments (6 given)
>>>
>>>
>>>What does this mean?
>>>    
>>>
>>
>>
>>It appears to be saying that the MysqlMemberships.py member adaptor
>>that you have installed is not compatible with your version of Mailman.
>>
>>What Mailman version do you have?
>>
>>What version of MysqlMemberships.py do you have (latest is 1.61,
>>2005-07-27)? See
>>http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=839386&group_id=103&atid=300103
>>and/or http://www.orenet.co.uk/opensource/
>>
>>--
>>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>>  
>>
>I am using 1.61 per the revision number on the file:
>Kev Green, oRe Net (http://www.orenet.co.uk/), 2003/11/04
>$Revision: 1.61 $
>
>and the mailman version is via version in bin:
>mailman01:/var/lib/mailman/bin# ./version
>Using Mailman version: 2.1.6
>
>
>Is there some sort of issue with spammers?  It doesn't happen all the 
>time.  There appears to be no rhyme or reason for it.

The number of arguments to __init__ in the _BounceInfo class changed
from 6 to 5 in Mailman 2.1.4. It looks like the MysqlMemberships.py
member adaptor getBounceInfo() method is not compatible with Mailman
versions newer than 2.1.3.

This error doesn't occur all the time because getBounceInfo() only
instantiates a _BounceInfo object when it is asked to return existing
bounce info which is only when a bounce is being processed for a
member with prior bounces.

I suggest you take this up with the author/provider of the
MysqlMemberships.py member adaptor. 

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tal at whatexit.org  Thu Sep  1 14:17:31 2005
From: tal at whatexit.org (Tom Limoncelli)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 08:17:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/qrunner dies after 50 weeks
Message-ID: <4316F15B.3040902@whatexit.org>

I run a number of mailing lists on a server with a few virtual domains 
(http://www.groupname.org/mailman/listinfo & 
http://www.plts.org/mailman/listinfo) on a Solaris server.  I was always 
impressed at how mailman needed so little maintenance (I previously ran 
majordomo since around 1993, and moved to mailman in 2000).  It is one 
of the few bits of software that I run that "runs itself" after 
installation.  I'm currently using Mailman version 2.1.2.

Last week I got complaints from users that messages weren't getting 
through.  After some investigation it turns out they were right.  I also 
noticed that the mailman processes had been running for over 50 weeks.  
I did a "mailmanctl restart" and suddenly the entire backlog of email 
had been processed and everything was back to normal.

You may be wondering what my uptime was.  So I'll tell you:

newjoisey.whatexit.org% uptime
  8:03am  up 755 day(s), 11:58,  7 users,  load average: 0.86, 0.73, 0.48
newjoisey.whatexit.org% uname -a
SunOS joisey 5.9 Generic_112233-06 sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-2

Would it be worth it to do a "mailmanctl" every 49 weeks as a preventive 
measure?  Is there a recommended way to automate this?  I'm concerned 
that I might not remember to do it in July 2006.  I might be traveling then.

Is this a common problem with mailman?  Should I be concerned?

Tom Limoncelli
Author, The Practice of System and Network Administration
www.EverythingSysadmin.com
http://whatexit.org/mailman/listinfo/tposana-fans

P.S.  Thanks for the excellent software.  50 weeks!  You guys rule! :-)


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Sep  1 15:24:47 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 15:24:47 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/qrunner dies after 50 weeks
In-Reply-To: <4316F15B.3040902@whatexit.org>
References: <4316F15B.3040902@whatexit.org>
Message-ID: <p06200729bf3cb0270d13@[10.0.1.210]>

At 8:17 AM -0400 2005-09-01, Tom Limoncelli wrote:

>                                                              I was always
>  impressed at how mailman needed so little maintenance (I previously ran
>  majordomo since around 1993, and moved to mailman in 2000).

	That's why I switched from Majordomo, although I think I made 
that switch a bit later than you did.

>                                                               It is one
>  of the few bits of software that I run that "runs itself" after
>  installation.  I'm currently using Mailman version 2.1.2.

	Note that there are many improvements with more recent versions 
of Mailman, and if you haven't applied the appropriate patch, there 
is a known security vulnerability in versions older than 2.1.6.  I 
would encourage you to look at upgrading, or at the very least 
ensuring that you've got the security patch applied.

>  Would it be worth it to do a "mailmanctl" every 49 weeks as a preventive
>  measure?  Is there a recommended way to automate this?  I'm concerned
>  that I might not remember to do it in July 2006.  I might be traveling then.
>
>  Is this a common problem with mailman?  Should I be concerned?

	Well, it's the first I've heard of such a problem, but I wouldn't 
be too surprised that there was some sort of a 48-52 week bug.

	We have had occasional reports of problems in the past with 
messages getting stuck and then cleared by a restart, but I haven't 
heard of anyone finding out any specifics regarding the underlying 
cause, and I haven't heard of anyone noting a commonality between 
uptime and messages being stuck.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il  Thu Sep  1 15:48:31 2005
From: lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il (lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 16:48:31 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] backup/restore for mailman advice
Message-ID: <5570AD7B7ABD5F4493883FF8F482BC94120E0A@exchsrv01.haifa.edu>

Hello All,
 
I'd like to ask you bout your backup/restore policy and tools concerning mailman DB.
 
What are the recommended ways to backup mailman DB and for what files and ways to restore them in case of the disaster?
 
Please send your recommendation/scripts for that matter.
 
Best Regards,
Leon Kolchinsky


From dgordon at dgordon.eclipse.co.uk  Thu Sep  1 16:23:01 2005
From: dgordon at dgordon.eclipse.co.uk (David Gordon)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 15:23:01 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Headers _within_ digests
Message-ID: <20050901142301.26559@smtp.eclipse.co.uk>

A typical Mailman list digest will start each post message with the following:

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 17:49:01 -0500
From: List Subscriber <listsubscriber at thierdomain.tld>
Subject: Re: [listname] A clever subject line
To: listname at mydomain.ltd
Message-ID: <6c32a89a946c1bcd25c4f2bc7090d391 at theirdoamain.tld>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

This is, to me, Too Much Information! Do we really need to know the
content type? And surely we know where the message was sent to?

I subscribe to a list which runs on LetterRip Pro and only includes the
"Subject:", "Date:" and "From:" headers, thus making the digest much
easier to read. I can quickly see the information which matters when
digesting a digest!

Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 17:49:01 -0500
From: List Subscriber <listsubscriber at thierdomain.tld>
Subject: Re: [listname] A clever subject line

I'd like to clean up the digests my lists send. I wonder how to do remove
the "Message-ID:" and  "Content-Type:" from the digest messages I send?

Many thanks.

-- 
David Gordon



From dhphllps at memphis.edu  Thu Sep  1 16:37:21 2005
From: dhphllps at memphis.edu (Dan Phillips)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 09:37:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Headers _within_ digests
In-Reply-To: <20050901142301.26559@smtp.eclipse.co.uk>
References: <20050901142301.26559@smtp.eclipse.co.uk>
Message-ID: <D244631C-ADD6-43DE-B544-41DB87650DEE@memphis.edu>


On Sep 1, 2005, at 9:23 AM, David Gordon wrote:
> I'd like to clean up the digests my lists send. I wonder how to do  
> remove
> the "Message-ID:" and  "Content-Type:" from the digest messages I  
> send?


 From Defaults.py:

======
# Headers which should be kept in both RFC 1153 (plain) and MIME  
digests.  RFC
# 1153 also specifies these headers in this exact order, so order  
matters.
MIME_DIGEST_KEEP_HEADERS = [
     'Date', 'From', 'To', 'Cc', 'Subject', 'Message-ID', 'Keywords',
     # I believe we should also keep these headers though.
     'In-Reply-To', 'References', 'Content-Type', 'MIME-Version',
     'Content-Transfer-Encoding', 'Precedence', 'Reply-To',
     # Mailman 2.0 adds these headers
     'Message',
     ]

PLAIN_DIGEST_KEEP_HEADERS = [
     'Message', 'Date', 'From',
     'Subject', 'To', 'Cc',
     'Message-ID', 'Keywords',
     'Content-Type',
     ]
========


Edit these as desired and place in mm_cfg.py.

Dan



================================
Dan Phillips
Professor of Horn, University of Memphis
webmaster: http://music.memphis.edu



From paul at rubinsoftware.com  Thu Sep  1 17:35:51 2005
From: paul at rubinsoftware.com (Paul Rubin)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:35:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Processing Problems
Message-ID: <200509011535.j81FZjXb016494@Dual400.rubinsoftware.com>

Mailman 2.1.6
Python 2.4.1
27 Lists
Average 8000 people per list
Average message size 100k
Largest list gets around 200 messages per day
Total load average 2million messages per day give or take.
We have been using mailman successfully for about 4 years.
 
Basic Problem: 
  Since about 12/2004 The bounce processor consumes most of the memory in
the system and sometimes all of the CPU.
 
What we have tried:

*	Change REGISTER_BOUNCES_EVERY = minutes(1)  which change us from
complete crashing to just consuming all memory and cpu.
*	Temporarily shut off bounce processing on all lists, no effect. 
*	Temporarily reroute bounce messages to a mailbox for human
processing, We received about 5,000 per hour most of which were temporary
(mailbox full, mail server not answering, etc)
*	When it gets really bad Kill and restart mailman every 2 minutes.
Mostly works but kills all request in progress when the kill comes through,
however those request we already dead because of the locks on the lists
*	Contacting the bug forum on Source forge and being told that bounce
processing is a problem that they hope to have time to fix in 2.1.6  (see
1077587)

What top often looks like:
 
 09:39:33  up 36 days, 15:58,  9 users,  load average: 5.23, 5.75, 4.98
497 processes: 485 sleeping, 8 running, 4 zombie, 0 stopped
CPU states:  67.8% user  16.6% system   0.0% nice   0.0% iowait  15.4% idle
Mem:  1029884k av,  973668k used,   56216k free,       0k shrd,  149788k
buff
                    739156k actv,   58428k in_d,   17080k in_c
Swap: 2040244k av,  188092k used, 1852152k free                  184036k
cached
 
  PID USER     PRI  NI  SIZE  RSS SHARE STAT %CPU %MEM   TIME CPU COMMAND
14978 mailman   16   0  324M 318M  2328 R     6.5 31.6   5:46   0
/usr/local/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 
14977 mailman   15   0 28916  27M  2420 S     0.0  2.7   0:31   0
/usr/local/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
14983 mailman   15   0 27608  25M  2320 S     0.2  2.5   0:23   0
/usr/local/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 
14982 mailman   15   0 23832  22M  2460 S     0.7  2.2   0:58   0
/usr/local/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:
14980 mailman   15   0 22904  21M  2364 S     0.0  2.1   0:27   0
/usr/local/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:
14981 mailman   15   0  5508 2568  2180 S     0.0  0.2   0:00   0
/usr/local/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
14984 mailman   15   0  5460 2548  2180 S     0.0  0.2   0:00   0
/usr/local/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -
14979 mailman   15   0  5476 2540  2180 S     0.0  0.2   0:00   0
/usr/local/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1
14976 mailman   25   0  5524 2220  2216 S     0.0  0.2   0:00   0
/usr/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start

And immediately after a shutdown restart cycle:
 
 09:42:12  up 36 days, 16:01,  9 users,  load average: 4.21, 5.23, 4.91
532 processes: 521 sleeping, 7 running, 4 zombie, 0 stopped
CPU states:  82.3% user   6.3% system   0.0% nice   0.0% iowait  11.3% idle
Mem:  1029884k av,  643420k used,  386464k free,       0k shrd,  149556k
buff
                    435668k actv,   33664k in_d,   16752k in_c
Swap: 2040244k av,  111832k used, 1928412k free                  161048k
cached
 
  PID USER     PRI  NI  SIZE  RSS SHARE STAT %CPU %MEM   TIME CPU COMMAND
32382 mailman   16   0 24312  23M  2660 R    27.2  2.3   0:03   0
/usr/local/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
32385 mailman   15   0 22036  21M  2616 R    23.0  2.1   0:02   0
/usr/local/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:
32388 mailman   15   0 21816  21M  2584 S    14.1  2.1   0:01   0
/usr/local/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 
32383 mailman   16   0 20604  20M  2568 R     6.1  2.0   0:03   0
/usr/local/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 
32387 mailman   15   0 15960  15M  2712 S     0.5  1.5   0:02   0
/usr/local/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:
32379 mailman   25   0  5900 5900  2596 S     0.0  0.5   0:00   0
/usr/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start
32386 mailman   15   0  5840 5840  2512 S     0.0  0.5   0:00   0
/usr/local/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
32384 mailman   15   0  5804 5804  2512 S     0.0  0.5   0:00   0
/usr/local/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1
32389 mailman   25   0  5792 5792  2512 S     0.0  0.5   0:00   0
/usr/local/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -

Notice how the other tasks suddenly get busy....
 
Log files were completely flushed at 4PM yesterday.
 
[mailman at tbnonline ~]$ ls -al logs
total 16144
drwxrwsr-x    2 mailman  mailman      4096 Aug 31 19:19 .
drwxrwsr-x   34 mailman  mailman      4096 Sep  1 08:40 ..
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman  15793138 Sep  1 09:02 bounce
-rw-rw-r--    1 smmsp    mailman    335919 Sep  1 09:01 error
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman      5181 Sep  1 06:25 locks
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman     28700 Sep  1 09:01 post
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman     35858 Sep  1 08:32 qrunner
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman    263590 Sep  1 09:02 smtp
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman      1519 Sep  1 06:31 smtp-failure
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman      6833 Sep  1 08:59 subscribe
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman      1069 Sep  1 08:32 vette

Sample from bounce log:
 
Sep 01 08:58:30 2005 (14978) bounce message w/no discernable addresses: <
<mailto:20050901125626.19066.qmail at smtp02-01.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net>
20050901125626.19066.qmail at smtp02-01.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net>
Sep 01 08:58:30 2005 (14978) discarding unrecognized, message-id: <
<mailto:20050901125626.19066.qmail at smtp02-01.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net>
20050901125626.19066.qmail at smtp02-01.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net>
Sep 01 08:58:32 2005 (14978) bounce message w/no discernable addresses: <
<mailto:Terrace26313811125579171 at tbnonline.com>
Terrace26313811125579171 at tbnonline.com>
Sep 01 08:58:32 2005 (14978) discarding unrecognized, message-id: <
<mailto:Terrace26313811125579171 at tbnonline.com>
Terrace26313811125579171 at tbnonline.com>
Sep 01 08:58:34 2005 (14978) bounce message w/no discernable addresses: <
<mailto:0MKvAI-1EAocE2a2R-0002jN at mx.perfora.net>
0MKvAI-1EAocE2a2R-0002jN at mx.perfora.net>
Sep 01 08:58:34 2005 (14978) discarding unrecognized, message-id: <
<mailto:0MKvAI-1EAocE2a2R-0002jN at mx.perfora.net>
0MKvAI-1EAocE2a2R-0002jN at mx.perfora.net>
Sep 01 08:58:35 2005 (14978) bounce message w/no discernable addresses: <
<mailto:20050901125631.ABF4E38E49 at tbnonline.org>
20050901125631.ABF4E38E49 at tbnonline.org>
Sep 01 08:58:35 2005 (14978) discarding unrecognized, message-id: <
<mailto:20050901125631.ABF4E38E49 at tbnonline.org>
20050901125631.ABF4E38E49 at tbnonline.org>
Sep 01 08:58:39 2005 (14978) bounce message w/no discernable addresses: <
<mailto:20050901125636.19173.qmail at smtp03-01.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net>
20050901125636.19173.qmail at smtp03-01.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net>
Sep 01 08:58:39 2005 (14978) discarding unrecognized, message-id: <
<mailto:20050901125636.19173.qmail at smtp03-01.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net>
20050901125636.19173.qmail at smtp03-01.prod.mesa1.secureserver.net>

Sample from error log:
 
Sep 01 08:57:32 2005 (14978) Ignoring unparseable message:
1125579452.21312+848e219740e9c93ca6f761384c120d97593ee364
Sep 01 08:57:58 2005 (14978) Uncaught runner exception: No terminating
boundary and no trailing empty line
Sep 01 08:57:58 2005 (14978) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in _oneloop
    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 151, in dequeue
    msg = email.message_from_string(msg, Message.Message)
  File "/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/__init__.py", line 52, in
message_from_string
    return Parser(_class, strict=strict).parsestr(s)
  File "/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
    return self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
  File "/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
  File "/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 240, in _parsebody
    msgobj = self.parsestr(part)
  File "/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 75, in parsestr
    return self.parse(StringIO(text), headersonly=headersonly)
  File "/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
  File "/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 265, in _parsebody
    msg = self.parse(fp)
  File "/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 64, in parse
    self._parsebody(root, fp, firstbodyline)
  File "/var/mailman/pythonlib/email/Parser.py", line 206, in _parsebody
    raise Errors.BoundaryError(
BoundaryError: No terminating boundary and no trailing empty line
 
Sep 01 08:57:58 2005 (14978) Ignoring unparseable message:
1125579478.065345+8ca74677621e4e9262be5503f2e081184abc853e

Sample from smtp log:
Sep 01 09:02:32 2005 (14982) <
<mailto:mailman.68.1125579745.14978.brdcst-compaq at tbnonline.com>
mailman.68.1125579745.14978.brdcst-compaq at tbnonline.com> smtp to
brdcst-compaq for 1 recips, completed in 0.253 seconds
Sep 01 09:02:32 2005 (14982) <
<mailto:mailman.69.1125579745.14978.brdcst-compaq at tbnonline.com>
mailman.69.1125579745.14978.brdcst-compaq at tbnonline.com> smtp to
brdcst-compaq for 1 recips, completed in 0.432 seconds
Sep 01 09:02:32 2005 (14982) <
<mailto:mailman.70.1125579745.14978.brdcst-compaq at tbnonline.com>
mailman.70.1125579745.14978.brdcst-compaq at tbnonline.com> smtp to
brdcst-compaq for 1 recips, completed in 0.140 seconds
Sep 01 09:02:33 2005 (14982) <
<mailto:mailman.71.1125579745.14978.brdcst-compaq at tbnonline.com>
mailman.71.1125579745.14978.brdcst-compaq at tbnonline.com> smtp to
brdcst-compaq for 1 recips, completed in 0.315 seconds
Sep 01 09:02:42 2005 (14982) <
<mailto:mailman.61.1125579744.14978.brdcst-printer at tbnonline.com>
mailman.61.1125579744.14978.brdcst-printer at tbnonline.com> smtp to
brdcst-printer for 2 recips, completed in 4.212 seconds
Sep 01 09:02:44 2005 (14982) <
<mailto:mailman.65.1125579744.14978.brdcst-dell at tbnonline.com>
mailman.65.1125579744.14978.brdcst-dell at tbnonline.com> smtp to brdcst-dell
for 2 recips, completed in 1.629 seconds
Sep 01 09:02:44 2005 (14982) <
<mailto:mailman.71.1125579745.14978.brdcst-compaq at tbnonline.com>
mailman.71.1125579745.14978.brdcst-compaq at tbnonline.com> smtp to
brdcst-compaq for 2 recips, completed in 0.842 seconds
Sep 01 09:02:45 2005 (14982) <
<mailto:mailman.63.1125579744.14978.brdcst-printer at tbnonline.com>
mailman.63.1125579744.14978.brdcst-printer at tbnonline.com> smtp to
brdcst-printer for 2 recips, completed in 0.427 seconds
Sep 01 09:02:45 2005 (14982) <
<mailto:mailman.69.1125579745.14978.brdcst-compaq at tbnonline.com>
mailman.69.1125579745.14978.brdcst-compaq at tbnonline.com> smtp to
brdcst-compaq for 2 recips, completed in 0.391 seconds
Sep 01 09:02:46 2005 (14982) <
<mailto:mailman.67.1125579744.14978.brdcst-compaq at tbnonline.com>
mailman.67.1125579744.14978.brdcst-compaq at tbnonline.com> smtp to
brdcst-compaq for 2 recips, completed in 0.374 seconds

 
 


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Sep  1 18:28:17 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 18:28:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Processing Problems
In-Reply-To: <200509011535.j81FZjXb016494@Dual400.rubinsoftware.com>
References: <200509011535.j81FZjXb016494@Dual400.rubinsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <p06200733bf3cd7dd5bec@[10.0.1.210]>

At 11:35 AM -0400 2005-09-01, Paul Rubin wrote:

>  *	Contacting the bug forum on Source forge and being told that bounce
>  processing is a problem that they hope to have time to fix in 2.1.6  (see
>  1077587)

	Note that 2.1.6 has already been shipped, and it did make some 
notable improvements in the bounce handling process.


	However, I know that it did not completely resolve bounce 
handling problems, because we recently ran into some issues on 
python.org (running Python 2.4 and Mailman 2.1.6), where we racked up 
almost 100,000 bounces in the space of a very few days, in many cases 
getting multiple bounces in the span of a single second.  I ended up 
shutting down Mailman, moving the "bounce" subdirectory to 
"bounce.old" and created a new "bounce" directory (with the same 
ownership and permissions), and after that I haven't seen these 
problems re-occur.

	Unfortunately, we don't really know yet what caused our problems 
on python.org, but we are still investigating.

>  What top often looks like:
>
>   09:39:33  up 36 days, 15:58,  9 users,  load average: 5.23, 5.75, 4.98
>  497 processes: 485 sleeping, 8 running, 4 zombie, 0 stopped
>  CPU states:  67.8% user  16.6% system   0.0% nice   0.0% iowait  15.4% idle
>  Mem:  1029884k av,  973668k used,   56216k free,       0k shrd,  149788k
>  buff
>                      739156k actv,   58428k in_d,   17080k in_c
>  Swap: 2040244k av,  188092k used, 1852152k free                  184036k
>  cached
>
>    PID USER     PRI  NI  SIZE  RSS SHARE STAT %CPU %MEM   TIME CPU COMMAND
>  14978 mailman   16   0  324M 318M  2328 R     6.5 31.6   5:46   0
>  /usr/local/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1

	Well, BounceRunner is taking up a lot of memory, but I don't see 
it using a lot of CPU.  Looking at the system with tools like 
"iostats" and "vmstats" is usually useful, when you're having 
problems like this.

	Especially useful is if you have support for the "-x" option to 
iostats, because that lets you look at things like the disk I/O wait 
queue, and gives you a very good idea if you are being limited by 
synchronous meta-data updates, such as are common with excessive lock 
contention, or excessive problems with creation/use/deletion of lots 
of temporary files in a short period of time, etc....

	The "vmstats" tool comes in handy when trying to determine if 
you're seeing serious memory pressure, maybe excessive disk cache 
thrashing, etc... during periods of high activity.  If you see high 
rates of page-ins and page-outs, that's a very bad sign.  High rates 
of page-ins, in combination with relatively little free memory, is 
not necessarily a bad sign -- the system may just be using memory 
that would otherwise be sitting idle as an expanded disk cache.  But 
high rates of page-outs is bad news.


	You might also want to consider turning on lock debugging, 
pending lockdb debugging, etc... in your mm_cfg.py.

>  And immediately after a shutdown restart cycle:
>
>   09:42:12  up 36 days, 16:01,  9 users,  load average: 4.21, 5.23, 4.91
>  532 processes: 521 sleeping, 7 running, 4 zombie, 0 stopped
>  CPU states:  82.3% user   6.3% system   0.0% nice   0.0% iowait  11.3% idle
>  Mem:  1029884k av,  643420k used,  386464k free,       0k shrd,  149556k
>  buff
>                      435668k actv,   33664k in_d,   16752k in_c
>  Swap: 2040244k av,  111832k used, 1928412k free                  161048k
>  cached
>
>    PID USER     PRI  NI  SIZE  RSS SHARE STAT %CPU %MEM   TIME CPU COMMAND
>  32382 mailman   16   0 24312  23M  2660 R    27.2  2.3   0:03   0
>  /usr/local/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
>  32385 mailman   15   0 22036  21M  2616 R    23.0  2.1   0:02   0
>  /usr/local/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:
>  32388 mailman   15   0 21816  21M  2584 S    14.1  2.1   0:01   0
>  /usr/local/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1
>  32383 mailman   16   0 20604  20M  2568 R     6.1  2.0   0:03   0
>  /usr/local/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1

	Well, you've certainly got a lot more memory showing as free, 
memory which I believe may have previously been allocated to 
BounceRunner.  This is one potential indication that you are actually 
suffering from memory shortages during the periods you're discussing.

	However, you'd have to do further investigation with tools like 
iostat and vmstat during times of trouble, before you'd be likely to 
have a good idea of what was really going on.

>  32387 mailman   15   0 15960  15M  2712 S     0.5  1.5   0:02   0
>  /usr/local/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:
>  32379 mailman   25   0  5900 5900  2596 S     0.0  0.5   0:00   0
>  /usr/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start
>  32386 mailman   15   0  5840 5840  2512 S     0.0  0.5   0:00   0
>  /usr/local/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
>  32384 mailman   15   0  5804 5804  2512 S     0.0  0.5   0:00   0
>  /usr/local/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1
>  32389 mailman   25   0  5792 5792  2512 S     0.0  0.5   0:00   0
>  /usr/local/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -
>
>  Notice how the other tasks suddenly get busy....

	That's perfectly normal when you restart after a period of having 
problems, as the other parts of the system try to catch up to where 
they should be.

>  Log files were completely flushed at 4PM yesterday.
>
>  [mailman at tbnonline ~]$ ls -al logs
>  total 16144
>  drwxrwsr-x    2 mailman  mailman      4096 Aug 31 19:19 .
>  drwxrwsr-x   34 mailman  mailman      4096 Sep  1 08:40 ..
>  -rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman  15793138 Sep  1 09:02 bounce
>  -rw-rw-r--    1 smmsp    mailman    335919 Sep  1 09:01 error
>  -rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman      5181 Sep  1 06:25 locks
>  -rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman     28700 Sep  1 09:01 post
>  -rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman     35858 Sep  1 08:32 qrunner
>  -rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman    263590 Sep  1 09:02 smtp
>  -rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman      1519 Sep  1 06:31 smtp-failure
>  -rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman      6833 Sep  1 08:59 subscribe
>  -rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman      1069 Sep  1 08:32 vette

	That's a *huge* bounce subdirectory.  One problem you can run 
into is that when you've got more than ~1000-10000 files in a single 
subdirectory, just accessing that directory can take a very long time 
to do the linear table scan.  Trying to create new files in that 
directory can take orders of magnitude longer than it used to, just 
because the system has to lock the entire directory and then scan the 
entire directory, before it can confirm that there are no other files 
in the directory with the same name, at which point it can then 
release the lock on the directory and return to the caller.

	Try moving the current "bounce" directory to something like 
"bounce.old", and create a new one with the same ownership and 
permissions, then stop and restart Mailman.  I'd be willing to bet 
that directory lock contention has been a *huge* part of your problem 
-- I certainly believe that it was for us on python.org.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From jwblist at olympus.net  Thu Sep  1 18:37:52 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 09:37:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] max_num_recipients variable question
In-Reply-To: <87slwpo8d7.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <BF3C7C70.7BAB%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 8/31/05 7:00 PM, "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:

>>>>>> "John" == John W Baxter <jwblist at olympus.net> writes:
> 
>     John> But yes, 10 recipients known to Mailman is the limit as set
>     John> up by the default value.  Personally, I prefer a setting of
>     John> 1 (I hate broadcasting addresses into a mailing list).
> 
> Does that actually work?  Although 10 is too many (I don't think I've
> ever seen a non-spam/troll with more than 5 including the list on the
> lists I manage), most of the lists I manage have occasional valid
> reasons for cross-posting or adding non-member recipients.  I would
> think the inconvenience would be greater with restriction to 1.

I probably should have said "I would prefer".  As to cross-posting, for a
list where that is natural, a setting of 1 would not work well.

As to non-member recipients, that's why I would prefer a setting of 1.  I
don't think--in most cases--the addresses of such people should be broadcast
to lists.  If their spam filtering doesn't let Bcc-addressed messages
through, then a separate send seems in order.

[For the address I use for this and other work-related lists, it wouldn't
matter...this morning Google shows 3600 hits on the address:  it was ruined
years ago, before the spammers destroyed email.  The address does make a
nice honeypot, though.]

  --John




From martin_hugo at fclass.hilliard.k12.oh.us  Thu Sep  1 21:08:00 2005
From: martin_hugo at fclass.hilliard.k12.oh.us (Martin Hugo)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 15:08:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Index page for mailman
Message-ID: <fc.000f5ea8022e2ae4000f5ea8022e2ae4.22e2c83@fclass.hilliard.k12.oh.us>

Hello,

As a new user to Linux and Mailman (using ver 2.1.5 w Apache 1.3.3 and
Debian Sarge w Exim4) I was pleased to be able to get it up and running
without too much list searching and head scratching.

I have a couple of questions though:  I would like to have a redirect page
send people to mydomain.com/mailman/listinfo if they inadvertently arrive
at mydomain.com/mailman/ but I can't figure out where to put that page on
the server (right now you get a forbidden error).  Second question: If I
want to change the look and feel to match my site, can I edit the html
files in /var/lib/mailman/templates/en so that all list pages look the
same (mainly school logos and table widths), or will that "break"
something elsewhere.

TIA

Martin T. Hugo
Network Administrator
Hilliard City Schools
Tel: 614-921-7102
Martin_Hugo at fclass.hilliard.k12.oh.us



From m.moghimi at gmail.com  Thu Sep  1 21:32:37 2005
From: m.moghimi at gmail.com (Mohammad Moghimi)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:32:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman installation
Message-ID: <d91bb712050901123220026265@mail.gmail.com>

Hi
I'm using SuSE Linux Professional 9.3. Is there any howto or documetation 
for installing mailman in SuSE.? As you know MailMan is in default packages 
of SuSE 9.3.

-- Mohammad
do you Python?!!


From john at wa9als.com  Thu Sep  1 22:07:26 2005
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 15:07:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change list name
Message-ID: <000401c5af30$ea34d870$0100a8c0@wa9als>

My understanding is that you cannot easily change the name of a list other 
than case changes.  If this is not correct, please tell me how or direct me 
to the proper resource.  I've googled and search the FAQ.

Thanks - John



From jmooers at landmanninteractive.com  Thu Sep  1 22:43:27 2005
From: jmooers at landmanninteractive.com (Jess Mooers)
Date: Thu,  1 Sep 2005 15:43:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change list name
In-Reply-To: <000401c5af30$ea34d870$0100a8c0@wa9als>
Message-ID: <r02010400-1039-0C9818ED1B2911DA866C000A95845562@[66.170.10.196]>

John Fleming <john at wa9als.com> wrote on Thursday, September 1, 2005:

>My understanding is that you cannot easily change the name of a list other 
>than case changes.  If this is not correct, please tell me how or direct me 
>to the proper resource.  I've googled and search the FAQ.
>
>Thanks - John


I did change a list name via a command line interface, just changing the folder names.  I use Postfix, and found that I also had change any mail aliases from the old name to the new name.  

If you are comfortable doing this than you should be fine.

Regards,
Jess Mooers
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
Landmann InterActive
1423 S. Park St., Madison, WI 53715
W 608-257-1558 F 608-257-8705
www.landmanninteractive.com


From sythos at sythos.net  Thu Sep  1 22:44:11 2005
From: sythos at sythos.net (Sythos)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 22:44:11 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change list name
In-Reply-To: <000401c5af30$ea34d870$0100a8c0@wa9als>
References: <000401c5af30$ea34d870$0100a8c0@wa9als>
Message-ID: <20050901224411.700571bc.sythos@sythos.net>

Il Thu, 1 Sep 2005 15:07:26 -0500
"John Fleming" <john at wa9als.com> scrisse:

> My understanding is that you cannot easily change the name of a list other 
> than case changes.  If this is not correct, please tell me how or direct me 
> to the proper resource.  I've googled and search the FAQ.

export user list, save config.pck, create new list, import userlist,
overwrite config.pck, crosso your finger and start mailman

-- 
Sythos - http://www.sythos.net

  ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
  /\                        - against M$ attachments


From jocelyn-admin at webpulse.com  Fri Sep  2 01:53:50 2005
From: jocelyn-admin at webpulse.com (Jocelyn K.)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 16:53:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some "General Options" changes not saving
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050901164353.0330f2a0@spamarrest.com>

My husband installed Mailman last night and now I'm trying to make changes 
in the "General Options" of the administration page.  For some reason, some 
of my changes are not saving.

I'm trying to add a prefix in the "Prefix for subject line of list 
postings" box and I'm also trying to change the Reply-to so that it is 
directed to "This List".  When I click the Submit your changes button, it 
saves it in the administration page.  BUT when I actually go and type an 
email to the list, it doesn't add the prefix I created in the subject line, 
nor does it reply-to the list.

Any ideas what I'm missing???  I'm trying to have our list go "live" by 
Monday (Sept 5th), so I'm hoping to get this resolved by then.


THANKS!
Jocelyn



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep  2 03:14:16 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 18:14:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change list name
In-Reply-To: <r02010400-1039-0C9818ED1B2911DA866C000A95845562@[66.170.10.196]>
Message-ID: <PC17402005090118141604536ac6fbd5@msapiro>

Jess Mooers wrote:

>John Fleming <john at wa9als.com> wrote on Thursday, September 1, 2005:
>
>>My understanding is that you cannot easily change the name of a list other 
>>than case changes.  If this is not correct, please tell me how or direct me 
>>to the proper resource.  I've googled and search the FAQ.
>>
>>Thanks - John
>
>
>I did change a list name via a command line interface, just changing the folder names.  I use Postfix, and found that I also had change any mail aliases from the old name to the new name.  
>
>If you are comfortable doing this than you should be fine.

The post at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-August/046316.html
gives more detail on how you might actually do this including
archives, but it does neglect to mention the aliases.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jocelyn-admin at webpulse.com  Fri Sep  2 03:35:47 2005
From: jocelyn-admin at webpulse.com (Jocelyn K.)
Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 18:35:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some "General Options" changes not saving
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.2.20050901180916.0330d900@spamarrest.com>

We figured out the problem!  My husband did not setup a the new list 
correctly.  We previously (before we heard of Mailman and downloaded it) 
setup a list email on our server, but added aliases to it.  We used this 
same list email address after we downloaded MM.  I'll spare the details so 
as not to get anybody confused.  But now my husband is reviewing what he 
did (or didn't do) when he added a new list.

If we have any problems adding a new list, I'm sure I'll be back asking our 
questions.  :)


Jocelyn



From adena at rus.uni-stuttgart.de  Fri Sep  2 12:54:36 2005
From: adena at rus.uni-stuttgart.de (Lorenz Adena)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 12:54:36 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Processing Problems
In-Reply-To: <p06200733bf3cd7dd5bec@[10.0.1.210]>;
	from Brad Knowles on Thu, Sep 01, 2005 at 06:28:17PM +0200
References: <200509011535.j81FZjXb016494@Dual400.rubinsoftware.com>
	<p06200733bf3cd7dd5bec@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <20050902125436.34232@infola.rus.uni-stuttgart.de>

On Thu 2005-09-01 (18:28), Brad Knowles wrote:
> 	Try moving the current "bounce" directory to something like 
> "bounce.old", and create a new one with the same ownership and 
> permissions, then stop and restart Mailman.  I'd be willing to bet 
> that directory lock contention has been a *huge* part of your problem 
> -- I certainly believe that it was for us on python.org.

since I had a similar problem a few weeks ago I'll try to remember what
i found out then.

- Incoming bounces are stored in mailman/qfiles/bounces
- BounceRunner empties this directory and collects all the bounces
  in mailman/data/bounce-events-<pid>.pck where the real processing
  starts. A big number of bounces in a short time results to a
  correspondingly big bounce-events-file. This step is working pretty
  fast, so the bounce-events-file can grow really big in a short time.
- Bounce Events are now sorted by list and pending Requests are stored in
  mailman/lists/<listname>/pending.pck
  If this file grows beyond a certain limit the BounceRunner spends most
  of his time in Reading (and writing?) this file. I'm not sure where
  the exact limit is, but I suspect something above a few MB - I
  encountered files as big as 50MB.

If the BounceRunner is in the described state, the following problems
occur:

- new bounces are processed from mailman/qfiles/bounces at a very
  slow rate of one bounce a minute or even slower
- the admin and list-pages of the affected list(s) on the web-server
  produce a timeout - all other web-pages work fine
- shutting down mailman does not work exactly like intended, since
  the BounceRunner is not killed immediately but finishes whatever
  he is doing, which can take several hours. kill -9 should work but
  will result in missing bounces.
- the rest of the Mailman programs and lists work fine

The suggested move of the qfiles/bounce directory to bounce.old worked
for me, but it may take some time for the BounceRunner to finish. You
might even move the files from bounce.old to the current bounce
directory to make sure they are processed, but you have to make sure the
pending.pck is removed from the list-directory before or you will run
into the same problems again.

Hope this information helps in solving the problem.

Regards

Lorenz
-- 
Lorenz Adena                             Information & Medien
Rechenzentrum
Universit?t Stuttgart               Tel:  (++49-711) 685-5993
Allmandring 30                      Fax:  (++49-711) 68702041
70550 Stuttgart

*** RUS-Mailadresse: poststelle at rus.uni-stuttgart.de ***


From Michael.Schaarwaechter at ub.uni-dortmund.de  Fri Sep  2 14:57:05 2005
From: Michael.Schaarwaechter at ub.uni-dortmund.de (Michael Schaarwaechter)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 14:57:05 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Where are the bounces?
Message-ID: <43184C21.60007@ub.uni-dortmund.de>

Hi,

great, mailman handles the most bounces going back to listname-bounces
itself. But now we have a problem in our Mailserver and would like to
take a look at these bounces. Is that possible? I didn't find any place
where I can see the mails themself.

TIA,
Michael
-- 
   Michael Schaarwaechter
   http://www.schaarwaechter.de
   http://www.inetbib.de
   http://www.ub.uni-dortmund.de


From dpifer at odu.edu  Fri Sep  2 14:56:14 2005
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 08:56:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Case sensitive problem w/ list serve
Message-ID: <1125665774.14582.26.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

Hello,

      One of our list administrators pointed out a problem with one of
his list serves with mailman. He tried to send mail to his list
Telecourse at list but it did not go through but when he sent to
telecourse at list the mail did go through. This problem did
not appear in our earlier version of mailman 2.0.13 but
now appears it does in our current version, mailman 2.1.6b4.

      Is there a case-sensitive setting in mailman? I am not
seeing any options with this.

Darren
ODU



From memmott at hitcatcher.com  Fri Sep  2 16:38:26 2005
From: memmott at hitcatcher.com (Memmott @ HitCatcher.com)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 10:38:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails coming through as "maillist-bounces" -
	is this normal?
In-Reply-To: <87wtm1o8qg.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20050902143906.C66201E4003@bag.python.org>

Thank you for the information - Is there any workaround for people locked
into Microsoft products? This is a client of ours, and I don't know if
asking her to go to Thunderbird or something else is an option.

More importantly, if she sends something out as "awake-bounce", does that
mean that any emails replying to the list will bounce?

And finally, I'm on Outlook 2003, why am I not seeing the same bug with this
list?

Thanks,
Matt

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen J. Turnbull [mailto:stephen at xemacs.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:52 PM
To: Memmott @ HitCatcher.com
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Emails coming through as "maillist-bounces" -
is this normal?

>>>>> "memmott" == memmott  <@ HitCatcher.com" <memmott at hitcatcher.com>>
writes:

    memmott> A client of ours has a mailman list set up called
    memmott> awake at domain.org. For some reason, when anybody posts to
    memmott> this list, the return address of the list comes across as
    memmott> "awake-bounces at domain.org
    memmott> [mailto:awake-bounces at domain.org] On Behalf Of firstname
    memmott> lastname"

AFAIK this is an Outlook-specific bug, and not a Mailman issue.  What
is happening is that Outlook is ignoring the "From" header and using
either the "Sender" header or the envelope sender as the return
address.  This is in violation of the Internet standards for mail
clients.

I realize that it's hard to get users to change their mail clients,
but that is the right solution to this problem.

    memmott> Anyways, is this the default behavior/ Is there any way
    memmott> to force it to send out emails as awake at domain.org and
    memmott> not awake-bounces?

Mailman does not "send out mail as itself" in the default
configuration; it simply forwards the mail and leaves the author's
address in place.  However, because it is sending mail to many
addresses which may or may not be valid, it lists itself as the
"Sender" so that delivery problems will be referred to Mailman, and
not to the author.

It is not possible to configure Mailman to use a different Sender.
This is to protect your list from being spammed by returns of
undeliverable mail.

-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering
http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573
JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.



From Tim.Willson at state.mn.us  Fri Sep  2 17:09:59 2005
From: Tim.Willson at state.mn.us (Tim Willson)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 10:09:59 -0500 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A non-text attachment was scrubbed... -- URL break
Message-ID: <61643EB090923342B22CA86AA408E42F02EDF1AA@exchange.finance.state.mn.us>

I've looked at the Whole Mailman FAQ and looked at archived message threads
back 5-6 months and have not see a discussion or resolution on the problem
I'm seeing with URL line breaks in my list archived messages.
Basically if I set Non-digest options/"Scrub attachments of regular delivery
message?" to No my archived messages, scrubber adds the non-test attachment
was scrubbed URL, URL's are ok full line and clickable. Messages from the
list have the attachment and life is good. The first example below.
If I set Non-digest options/"Scrub attachments of regular delivery message?"
to Yes my archived messages URL's have an extra = in the URL string at the
end of line one and a line break making the URL 2 lines and non-clickable.
The second example.
Please, if somebody has seen this problem, has a resolution, or if the FAQ
has the answer, let me know.
 ------------- next part --------------
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Type: application/octet-stream
Size: 76382 bytes
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<http://www.mn.us/pipermail/listname/attachments/20050901/4bb779ff/Officialn
oticeSpamFilteringUpdate09030-0001.pdf>


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eb35e/OfficialnoticeSpamFilteringUpdate09030.pdf 


-tw


-tw




From jim at jimnull.com  Fri Sep  2 17:23:42 2005
From: jim at jimnull.com (Jim Null)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 10:23:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help // emails not sent out
Message-ID: <003d01c5afd2$4d595420$380a0a0a@JNullWinbook>

HI ... we are using 2.1.5 and have several lists going.  On one particular
list, the one that is most active, we are having some problems, as follows:
 
1. Everyone on the list is moderated
2. When a post comes in, we receive a pending notice for approval
3. When approved, the message moves into our archives
4. The message goes out to some on the list, but not all,
 
Please advise any ideas on what might be the issue?
 
 
---------------------------------
Jim Null
Telephone: 903.236.0547
Email: jim at jimnull.com or info at longviewnet.com
Visit our web sites at: www.jimnull.com <http://www.jimnull.com/>  or
www.longviewnet.com <http://www.longviewnet.com/> 
Or, contact me on MSN Messenger as jim at jimnull.com

La Vida de Esperanza... I Peter
<http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=67&chapter=1&verse=3&version=3
1&context=verse> 1:3
 


From martin_hugo at fclass.hilliard.k12.oh.us  Fri Sep  2 17:24:35 2005
From: martin_hugo at fclass.hilliard.k12.oh.us (Martin Hugo)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 11:24:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customizing Mailman's Web Pages
Message-ID: <fc.000f5ea8022e7f3f000f5ea8022e7f3f.22e8018@fclass.hilliard.k12.oh.us>

Hello,

I am trying to customize Mailman's pages to match our website.  One of the
things I am trying to do is limit the width of the tables and pages (easy
enough on the HTML pages).  I have found how to edit htmlformat.py and
htmlformatter.py to adjust table and horizontal rule widths and change the
alignment of the footer logos to center, but I am having trouble figuring
out how to center the text links that appear between the horizontal rule
and the mailman logos.

Can anyone help please?

Martin T. Hugo
Network Administrator
Hilliard City Schools
Tel: 614-921-7102
Martin_Hugo at fclass.hilliard.k12.oh.us



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Sep  2 18:10:03 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 18:10:03 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Where are the bounces?
In-Reply-To: <43184C21.60007@ub.uni-dortmund.de>
References: <43184C21.60007@ub.uni-dortmund.de>
Message-ID: <p0620073dbf3e298a80be@[10.0.1.210]>

At 2:57 PM +0200 2005-09-02, Michael Schaarwaechter wrote:

>  great, mailman handles the most bounces going back to listname-bounces
>  itself. But now we have a problem in our Mailserver and would like to
>  take a look at these bounces. Is that possible? I didn't find any place
>  where I can see the mails themself.

	The bounces themselves only exist on the server long enough to be 
processed by the BounceRunner.  After that, they are thrown away.  If 
you want to see the individual bounces themselves, you're going to 
have to make some configuration changes to Mailman or how you 
integrate Mailman into your MTA.

	For details on how to make those kinds of configuration changes, 
I would encourage you to spend some time searching the archives.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Sep  2 18:08:36 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 18:08:36 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Case sensitive problem w/ list serve
In-Reply-To: <1125665774.14582.26.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
References: <1125665774.14582.26.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <p0620073cbf3e28eb5b7f@[10.0.1.210]>

At 8:56 AM -0400 2005-09-02, Darren G Pifer wrote:

>        One of our list administrators pointed out a problem with one of
>  his list serves with mailman. He tried to send mail to his list
>  Telecourse at list but it did not go through but when he sent to
>  telecourse at list the mail did go through. This problem did
>  not appear in our earlier version of mailman 2.0.13 but
>  now appears it does in our current version, mailman 2.1.6b4.

	There are two aspects to this problem.

	One is in the MTA -- it may or may not do case folding on the 
recipient name.  This is also an issue depending on how Mailman is 
integrated into your MTA -- is that through /etc/aliases or some 
other mechanism?

	The other aspect is Mailman itself.  Mailman doesn't care about 
case, but will preserve it with respect to the names that it is 
configured to know about -- either for a given list, or for a given 
recipient or set of recipients.


	Has your MTA changed?  Have you changed your method of 
integrating Mailman into the MTA?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Sep  2 18:12:25 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 18:12:25 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails coming through as "maillist-bounces" -
 is this normal?
In-Reply-To: <20050902143906.C66201E4003@bag.python.org>
References: <20050902143906.C66201E4003@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <p0620073ebf3e29e29577@[10.0.1.210]>

At 10:38 AM -0400 2005-09-02, Memmott @ HitCatcher.com wrote:

>  Thank you for the information - Is there any workaround for people locked
>  into Microsoft products?

	See <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From j.harris at digital-ink.co.uk  Fri Sep  2 18:47:49 2005
From: j.harris at digital-ink.co.uk (Jon Harris)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 17:47:49 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web admin slow
Message-ID: <69017732FDF92A4BB7E6F6B2E33B25B301394C90@server2900.DigitalInk.local>

Hi List

I have a (bit aged) Redhat 9 box (Pentium II/512Mb RAM) running Mailman
2.1.6 with Postfix. Its only has to run a single moderated mailing list
sending out one email every day to around 20,000 subscribers.

Sending out the emails is not problem - it works great. The major
problem is logging in to approve the email. It (Apache/2.0.40) is so
slow that it usually  times out with a 500 error after you try and
login.

Is there a way of speeding up the web interface?
Can I approve postings from the command line?

There is a large archive as they have been running this for around 3
years. Will it speed up if we trash part of the archive. If so how can I
trash archived data that is (say) over a year old?

There was a thread on this problem, but it was not really resolved, and
that user had 450,000 subscribers.

Any help appreciated.

Jon Harris



From lists05 at equinephotoart.com  Fri Sep  2 18:47:49 2005
From: lists05 at equinephotoart.com (jc dill)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 09:47:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Where are the bounces?
In-Reply-To: <p0620073dbf3e298a80be@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <43184C21.60007@ub.uni-dortmund.de>
	<p0620073dbf3e298a80be@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <43188235.3030605@equinephotoart.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 2:57 PM +0200 2005-09-02, Michael Schaarwaechter wrote:
> 
> 
>> great, mailman handles the most bounces going back to listname-bounces
>> itself. But now we have a problem in our Mailserver and would like to
>> take a look at these bounces. Is that possible? I didn't find any place
>> where I can see the mails themself.
> 
> 
> 	The bounces themselves only exist on the server long enough to be 
> processed by the BounceRunner.  After that, they are thrown away.  If 
> you want to see the individual bounces themselves, you're going to 
> have to make some configuration changes to Mailman or how you 
> integrate Mailman into your MTA.

A simple change would be to edit the alias for the bounce address to 
deliver the mail to both
A) a separate mailbox where you can look at them at your leisure
and B) to mailman for processing.

> 	For details on how to make those kinds of configuration changes, 
> I would encourage you to spend some time searching the archives.

That too.  :-)

jc


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Sep  2 19:10:46 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 19:10:46 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help // emails not sent out
In-Reply-To: <003d01c5afd2$4d595420$380a0a0a@JNullWinbook>
References: <003d01c5afd2$4d595420$380a0a0a@JNullWinbook>
Message-ID: <p0620073fbf3e3806e5c7@[10.0.1.210]>

At 10:23 AM -0500 2005-09-02, Jim Null wrote:

>  1. Everyone on the list is moderated
>  2. When a post comes in, we receive a pending notice for approval
>  3. When approved, the message moves into our archives
>  4. The message goes out to some on the list, but not all,
>
>  Please advise any ideas on what might be the issue?

	See <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Sep  2 19:17:21 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 19:17:21 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web admin slow
In-Reply-To: <69017732FDF92A4BB7E6F6B2E33B25B301394C90@server2900.DigitalInk.lo
	cal>
References: <69017732FDF92A4BB7E6F6B2E33B25B301394C90@server2900.DigitalInk.lo
	cal>
Message-ID: <p06200740bf3e38a90c06@[10.0.1.210]>

At 5:47 PM +0100 2005-09-02, Jon Harris wrote:

>  I have a (bit aged) Redhat 9 box (Pentium II/512Mb RAM) running Mailman
>  2.1.6 with Postfix. Its only has to run a single moderated mailing list
>  sending out one email every day to around 20,000 subscribers.
>
>  Sending out the emails is not problem - it works great. The major
>  problem is logging in to approve the email. It (Apache/2.0.40) is so
>  slow that it usually  times out with a 500 error after you try and
>  login.
>
>  Is there a way of speeding up the web interface?

	The web admin interface itself?  No.  You may be able to speed 
things up indirectly, by breaking up the list into multiple sub-lists 
and having an "umbrella" list that goes by the same name as the 
current single list.

	The issue is that each list configuration is stored in a single 
Python "pickle", including the complete list of all subscribers, 
etc....  Breaking this up into multiple Python pickles is likely to 
help reduce contention, and speed up the overall performance.

>  Can I approve postings from the command line?

	Most large mailing list sites that I know of work pretty much 
exclusively from the command-line.  However, you'd need to search the 
archives for more details on how they do that.

>  There is a large archive as they have been running this for around 3
>  years. Will it speed up if we trash part of the archive. If so how can I
>  trash archived data that is (say) over a year old?

	I don't think the size of your archive is going to have any 
impact on this issue.

	Most of the "performance" related stuff in the FAQ is going to be 
with regards to getting mail out to the members as quickly as 
possible, as opposed to the speed of the web admin interface.  But 
you may find some stuff there that is useful to you.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep  2 19:51:42 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 10:51:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I'm getting a 95% mass bounce action
In-Reply-To: <4313B8E8.5030706@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509021051420562b3f61afc@msapiro>

David Spake wrote:
>
>Here's what's so odd about the whole situation, and what really throws 
>me for a curve.


It confuses me too. See below.


>The message that shows at the bottom of the first 
>Bounce Notification has been sucessfully posted to the list.  It's 
>accepted by MailMan, with a timestamp of 10:55.  The very next message I 
>have from the list is the first Bounce Notification, timestamped at 
>10:57.  I have no other messages from the list between 10:55 and 10:57. 
>  Then at 10:57 PM, I get the first of 55 or so bounce notifications.
>
>Looking back at the email message, I see the message "The triggering 
>bounce notice is attached below.".  For clarity I include the entire 
>message here between the xx's:
>
>xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice:
>
>     List:       HH_Talk
>     Member:     sxxx at casxxxx.net
>     Action:     Subscription disabled.
>     Reason:     Excessive or fatal bounces.
>
>
>
>The triggering bounce notice is attached below.
>
>Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at
>mailman at heartlandhumanists.org.
>
>============================
>Subject: [HH_Talk] xxx
>From: <gxxx at msn.com>
>Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 22:55:09 -0500
>To: "HH talk" <hh_talk at heartlandhumanists.org>
>Return-Path: <gxxx at msn.com>
>Delivered-To: 153-hh_talk at heartlandhumanists.org
>Received: (qmail 6323 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2005 03:56:54 -0000
>Received: from bay11-dav39.bay11.hotmail.com (HELO hotmail.com) 
>(64.4.39.69) by human.reason4.us with SMTP; 28 Aug 2005 03:56:54 -0000
>Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft 
>SMTPSVC; Sat, 27 Aug 2005 20:56:23 -0700
>Message-ID: <BAY11-DAV39DD878AA96566CBBEA448F1AC0 at phx.gbl>
>Received: from 70.245.115.173 by BAY11-DAV39.phx.gbl with DAV; Sun, 28 
>Aug 2005 03:56:23 +0000
>X-Originating-IP: [70.245.115.173]
>X-Originating-Email: [gxxx at msn.com]
>X-Sender: gxxx at msn.com
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>X-Priority: 3
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-Mailer: MSN 9
>X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0011.1703
>Seal-Send-Time: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 22:55:10 -0500
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Aug 2005 03:56:23.0663 (UTC) 
>FILETIME=[74FBF7F0:01C5AB84]
>X-BeenThere: hh_talk at heartlandhumanists.org
>X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
>Precedence: list
>Reply-To: <hh_talk at heartlandhumanists.org>
>List-Id: <hh_talk.heartlandhumanists.org>
>List-Unsubscribe: <snip>
>List-Archive: <http://lists.heartlandhumanists.org/pipermail/hh_talk>
>List-Post: <mailto:hh_talk at heartlandhumanists.org>
>List-Help: <mailto:hh_talk-request at heartlandhumanists.org?subject=help>
>List-Subscribe: <snip>
>Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1877034956=="
>Sender: hh_talk-bounces at heartlandhumanists.org
>Errors-To: hh_talk-bounces at heartlandhumanists.org
>
>http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,167235,00.html
>
>
>============
>xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>That's it.  One last thing I've checked is to see if the Message-ID: of 
>the posted message, and the Message-ID: of the attached "triggering 
>bounce notice" are the same.  They are.


My first point of confusion is you have posted earlier that bounce
processing is off. In this case, mail to the listname-bounces address
is ignored by Mailman. Are you getting notices like the above with
bounce processing off? If so, I don't understand why.

Ignoring that confusion for the moment, the notice you quote above
contains a "triggering bounce notice" which is not a delivery status
notification. It looks like a post that was sent out from the list and
then possibly echoed back to the listname-bounces address by one of
the recipients, although there are no Received: headers supporting
this notion. Possibly something in your MTA is doing this. Have you
checked all your aliases?

I'm also confused as to where the disabled subscribers address
(sxxx at casxxxx.net) was picked up as it doesn't seem to be in the
notice anywhere although it could be VERPed in the envelope recipient.

Also, where does the 153-hh_talk... address in the Delivered-To: header
come from?

What do the rest of the 55 or so notices look like? are they the same
except for the address of the disabled user?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From revdave at gomorris.net  Fri Sep  2 19:41:11 2005
From: revdave at gomorris.net (David Morris)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 12:41:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Enabling personalization with Digest Mode?
Message-ID: <43188EB7.7090406@gomorris.net>

I have a subscriber to digest mode whose ISP is mandating her email 
address be in the To or CC header.

The only way I can see to do this is through personalization. I have 
seen where I can do that with non-digest messages, but I can't find 
where I can do that with Digests. I would prefer (for performance 
reasons) to not enable personalization for the larger list, and turn it 
on just for the digest list.

Can it be done? If not, how can I work around it (running mailman on 
Debian Linux with exim4)

David
-- 
Rev. David Morris
http://www.gomorris.net/wp/index.php
United Methodist Church, Dayton and Harcourt, Iowa
http://www.daytonharcourtumc.org
IEC, EF Foundation for Foreign Study
http://www.effoundation.org



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep  2 20:25:03 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 11:25:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] preserve feature
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0508310747350.98711@seyyav.pair.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020050902112503085934c1c37e@msapiro>

Sean wrote:
>
>In mailman 2.1.5, when tending to held posts there is a 'Preserve messages
>for the site administrator' option under the 'Action to take on all these
>held messages.' If Accept, Reject, or Discard is selected the message gets
>removed from the Administrative requests page.  Only if Defer is selected
>does the message remain there.  Am I missing something as to the
>functionality of the 'Preserve messages for the site administrator'
>option?

Checking the "Preserve" checkbox means that in addition to taking the
selected action (Defer, Accept, Reject, or Discard), save a copy of
the message in the SPAM_DIR directory. SPAM_DIR can be set in
mm_cfg.py and defaults to the 'spam' directory in VAR_PREFIX.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep  2 20:33:02 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 11:33:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] max_num_recipients variable question
In-Reply-To: <20050831145203.GB18960@sythos.net>
Message-ID: <PC174020050902113302081234c1c34e@msapiro>

Sythos wrote:

>On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 05:46:16PM +0300, lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il wrote:
>> Does "max_num_recipients = 10" in the default configuration of the list, means that when I'm posting to the list I can additionaly write only 9 e-mails along with the list address and no more? If I'm writing more than 10 e-mail addresses along with the list address it goes to list admin approval?
>> Is it for "To" "Cc" and "Bcc" alltogether?
>
>it mean your MTA support 10 rcpt per email

No. You're thinking of the Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py variable
SMTP_MAX_RCPTS.

max_num_recipients functions as the OP suggests except as pointed out
in another reply, Bcc recipients usually aren't seen by Mailman anyway
so mailman only counts To: and Cc: recipients.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep  2 21:01:43 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 12:01:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Server not connected" in smtp-failure log
In-Reply-To: <20050831164212.2EC1F1E44C3@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509021201430515c594ccae@msapiro>

Mike Hanby wrote:

>Damn, you are right.  Although some of the emails did make it through after
>I restarted mailman, looking in the smtp-error log shows that I'm still
>getting "Server not connected" errors :-(
>
>Shoot, anyone with Postfix (or another MTA) seen this problem?

There are a few other threads in the archives. See
http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amail.python.org+inurl%3Amailman-users+%22Server+not+connected%22

In particular, in the post at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-March/043447.html
I suggested setting SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION to 1 and/or
setting SMTP_MAX_RCPTS to some small number. I don't know if this
helped or not.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dpifer at odu.edu  Fri Sep  2 21:12:21 2005
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 15:12:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Case sensitive problem w/ list serve
In-Reply-To: <p0620073cbf3e28eb5b7f@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <1125665774.14582.26.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
	<p0620073cbf3e28eb5b7f@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <1125688341.14582.55.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

Hello,

On Fri, 2005-09-02 at 12:08, Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 8:56 AM -0400 2005-09-02, Darren G Pifer wrote:
> 
> >        One of our list administrators pointed out a problem with one of
> >  his list serves with mailman. He tried to send mail to his list
> >  Telecourse at list but it did not go through but when he sent to
> >  telecourse at list the mail did go through. This problem did
> >  not appear in our earlier version of mailman 2.0.13 but
> >  now appears it does in our current version, mailman 2.1.6b4.
> 
> 	There are two aspects to this problem.
> 
> 	One is in the MTA -- it may or may not do case folding on the 
> recipient name.  This is also an issue depending on how Mailman is 
> integrated into your MTA -- is that through /etc/aliases or some 
> other mechanism?
> 
> 	The other aspect is Mailman itself.  Mailman doesn't care about 
> case, but will preserve it with respect to the names that it is 
> configured to know about -- either for a given list, or for a given 
> recipient or set of recipients.

> 	Has your MTA changed?  

No, we have been using sendmail 8.13.4 even before we moved mailman
to the new machine. Do you know what options sendmail may be using
that is causing recipient name folding?

> Have you changed your method of integrating Mailman into the MTA?

Nope. We put the new version of mailman 2.1.6b4 on the machine then
did the conversion. I have to admit that we have not done anything
with the /etc/aliases file other than add the mailman specific entries
to it. Are we supposed to add entries for list, list-admin,
list-bounces, list-confirm, list-join, list-leave, list-owner,
list-request, list-subscribe, list-unsubscribe to the aliases file for
each mailman list we have? Will this have an effect on whether sendmail
can process the case-insensitive listname?

Darren
ODU 



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Sep  2 21:27:44 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 21:27:44 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Case sensitive problem w/ list serve
In-Reply-To: <1125688341.14582.55.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
References: <1125665774.14582.26.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>	
	<p0620073cbf3e28eb5b7f@[10.0.1.210]>
	<1125688341.14582.55.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <p06200743bf3e576840cd@[10.0.1.210]>

At 3:12 PM -0400 2005-09-02, Darren G Pifer wrote:

>  No, we have been using sendmail 8.13.4 even before we moved mailman
>  to the new machine. Do you know what options sendmail may be using
>  that is causing recipient name folding?

	By default, sendmail is not going to be doing any case folding, 
although I believe it is capable of that.  You'd need to check the 
bat book, and look at the options defined for that particular mailer 
definition.

>  Nope. We put the new version of mailman 2.1.6b4 on the machine then
>  did the conversion. I have to admit that we have not done anything
>  with the /etc/aliases file other than add the mailman specific entries
>  to it. Are we supposed to add entries for list, list-admin,
>  list-bounces, list-confirm, list-join, list-leave, list-owner,
>  list-request, list-subscribe, list-unsubscribe to the aliases file for
>  each mailman list we have? Will this have an effect on whether sendmail
>  can process the case-insensitive listname?

	It's going to depend on how you're integrating your Mailman 
installation with sendmail, but yes -- normally you would add the 
complete set of appropriate aliases for each and every list you add 
to the server.  It is possible to create configurations where these 
aliases are added for you automatically by the process which creates 
the Mailman mailing lists, but I don't think that's a normal part of 
the typical sendmail configuration.

	But it's all going to depend on how you're integrating the two. 
You need to know more about how you're doing that, and what processes 
are doing what and where.  I imagine that you'll have your answer to 
your original question when you find out the answers to these 
questions.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep  2 21:41:13 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 12:41:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/qrunner dies after 50 weeks
In-Reply-To: <p06200729bf3cb0270d13@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509021241130406a0591e83@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 8:17 AM -0400 2005-09-01, Tom Limoncelli wrote:
>
>>  Would it be worth it to do a "mailmanctl" every 49 weeks as a preventive
>>  measure?  Is there a recommended way to automate this?  I'm concerned
>>  that I might not remember to do it in July 2006.  I might be traveling then.
>>
>>  Is this a common problem with mailman?  Should I be concerned?
>
>	Well, it's the first I've heard of such a problem, but I wouldn't 
>be too surprised that there was some sort of a 48-52 week bug.
>

I think there was a report on this list a while back that someone's
qrunners died after some time that turned out to be due to his OS
killing some processes that ran too long.

There might be more info in Mailman's qrunner log to help understand
why they quit.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep  2 22:09:35 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 13:09:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Index page for mailman
In-Reply-To: <fc.000f5ea8022e2ae4000f5ea8022e2ae4.22e2c83@fclass.hilliard.k12.oh.us>
Message-ID: <PC17402005090213093502500bf07abd@msapiro>

Martin Hugo wrote:
>
>As a new user to Linux and Mailman (using ver 2.1.5 w Apache 1.3.3 and
>Debian Sarge w Exim4) I was pleased to be able to get it up and running
>without too much list searching and head scratching.
>
>I have a couple of questions though:  I would like to have a redirect page
>send people to mydomain.com/mailman/listinfo if they inadvertently arrive
>at mydomain.com/mailman/ but I can't figure out where to put that page on
>the server (right now you get a forbidden error).


The preferred way to do this is to add the following in the apache
config

RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$ http://mydomain.com/mailman/listinfo


>Second question: If I
>want to change the look and feel to match my site, can I edit the html
>files in /var/lib/mailman/templates/en so that all list pages look the
>same (mainly school logos and table widths), or will that "break"
>something elsewhere.

You can edit the templates as you wish. That's what they're for, but
don't overwrite the base templates with the edited ones. See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp
for where to put edited templates so they are used per list, per
domain or sitewide.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dpifer at odu.edu  Fri Sep  2 22:30:19 2005
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 16:30:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Case sensitive problem w/ list serve
In-Reply-To: <p06200743bf3e576840cd@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <1125665774.14582.26.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
	<p0620073cbf3e28eb5b7f@[10.0.1.210]>
	<1125688341.14582.55.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
	<p06200743bf3e576840cd@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <1125693019.14582.65.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

On Fri, 2005-09-02 at 15:27, Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 3:12 PM -0400 2005-09-02, Darren G Pifer wrote:
> 
> >  No, we have been using sendmail 8.13.4 even before we moved mailman
> >  to the new machine. Do you know what options sendmail may be using
> >  that is causing recipient name folding?
> 
> 	By default, sendmail is not going to be doing any case folding, 
> although I believe it is capable of that.  You'd need to check the 
> bat book, and look at the options defined for that particular mailer 
> definition.

Here is the mailer definition for Mailman:       

P=/usr1/mailman/sendmail/mm-handler, F=DFMPhESu9,
                S=11/31, R=21/31, T=DNS/RFC822/X-Unix, U=104:104,
                A=mm-handler $h $u

As you can see, we are using the mm-handler script that came with the
new mailman (I forgot we used this, doh!). This is handling all of
the aliases for our mailman lists. We would have heard someone 
complain if it wasn't working.

Also, the sendmail mailer flag "u" which is being used and according to
the Bat book causes the case of the user part of the address to remain.
I also don't see anywhere in the mm-handler script that will do the
case conversion for us. So, it looks we could either remove the "u"
mailer flag or do the case conversion in the mm-handler script. Is there
is preference which one we should modify?

Darren
ODU



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep  2 22:35:10 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 13:35:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails coming through as "maillist-bounces" -is
	this normal?
In-Reply-To: <20050902143906.C66201E4003@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402005090213351003127787d7a2@msapiro>

Memmott @ HitCatcher.com wrote:
>
>More importantly, if she sends something out as "awake-bounce", does that
>mean that any emails replying to the list will bounce?


I'm not sure what scenario you're envisioning here, but any mail sent
to the listname-bounces address will be processed as a bounce. Usually
this results in an 'unrecognized bounce' which may be reported to the
list owner depending on bounce processing settings. I'm not sure, but
in some cases, it may be actually registered as a bounce for the
person who sent it.


>And finally, I'm on Outlook 2003, why am I not seeing the same bug with this
>list?

If you're not seeing mail from this list as being "From:
mailman-users-bounces+memmott=hitcatcher.com at python.org on behalf of
the_actual_address_in_From:", maybe it has to do with the VERPed
address or maybe you've stumbled on the magic way to turn this off in
Outlook. If the latter, we'd like to know.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Sep  2 22:58:17 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:58:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Case sensitive problem w/ list serve
In-Reply-To: <1125693019.14582.65.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
References: <1125665774.14582.26.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
	<p0620073cbf3e28eb5b7f@[10.0.1.210]>
	<1125688341.14582.55.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
	<p06200743bf3e576840cd@[10.0.1.210]>
	<1125693019.14582.65.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <p06200746bf3e6ce54a3c@[10.0.1.210]>

At 4:30 PM -0400 2005-09-02, Darren G Pifer wrote:

>  Also, the sendmail mailer flag "u" which is being used and according to
>  the Bat book causes the case of the user part of the address to remain.
>  I also don't see anywhere in the mm-handler script that will do the
>  case conversion for us. So, it looks we could either remove the "u"
>  mailer flag or do the case conversion in the mm-handler script. Is there
>  is preference which one we should modify?

	It would probably be easier to change the sendmail mailer 
definition, but if you modified the mm-handler script and contributed 
that back to the project (i.e., upload it to the page for Mailman 
SourceForge patches), then other Mailman administrators could make 
use of that modified script.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From sean at adoptionmedia.com  Fri Sep  2 23:16:10 2005
From: sean at adoptionmedia.com (Sean Roe)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 14:16:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] combining mailman servers and virt domains and
	converting to mysql
Message-ID: <4318C11A.1030503@adoptionmedia.com>

Hi all,

I was am in the process of converting an old maillist server over to my 
new maillist server.  It currentl has a couple of lists on one domain  
running with the mysql patch.  What I want to do is combine this  server 
with the old lists that are non mysql based to the new server that is 
mysql based.  I have read the mail archive and the docs and I am not 
really sure how in what order to do stuff.  I think I can just copy over 
the lists directory and archive directory.  I should then run the mysql 
convert script.  Verify that all the lists got on the mysql server then 
move the IP to point to the new server? Am I in the right ballpark?

Sean


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep  2 23:34:12 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 14:34:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help // emails not sent out
In-Reply-To: <p0620073fbf3e3806e5c7@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <PC174020050902143412037540054c63@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 10:23 AM -0500 2005-09-02, Jim Null wrote:
>
>>  1. Everyone on the list is moderated
>>  2. When a post comes in, we receive a pending notice for approval
>>  3. When approved, the message moves into our archives
>>  4. The message goes out to some on the list, but not all,
>>
>>  Please advise any ideas on what might be the issue?
>
>	See <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>.
>

Also, look at the smtp-failure log and the bounce log for additional
clues.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep  2 23:44:22 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 14:44:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web admin slow
In-Reply-To: <69017732FDF92A4BB7E6F6B2E33B25B301394C90@server2900.DigitalInk.local>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509021444220531f5d0fb69@msapiro>

Jon Harris wrote:
>Can I approve postings from the command line?

If you set admin_immed_notify to Yes on the list's General Options
page, the admin will receive an e-mail notification of each pending
approval which gives instructions for approving or discarding the post
by e-mail. Not exactly command line approval, but it does avoid the
web interface.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep  2 23:53:24 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 14:53:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Enabling personalization with Digest Mode?
In-Reply-To: <43188EB7.7090406@gomorris.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509021453240546ab9ca9da@msapiro>

David Morris wrote:

>I have a subscriber to digest mode whose ISP is mandating her email 
>address be in the To or CC header.
>
>The only way I can see to do this is through personalization. I have 
>seen where I can do that with non-digest messages, but I can't find 
>where I can do that with Digests. I would prefer (for performance 
>reasons) to not enable personalization for the larger list, and turn it 
>on just for the digest list.
>
>Can it be done? If not, how can I work around it (running mailman on 
>Debian Linux with exim4)

Personalized digests are not supported in Mailman 2.1. I'm not aware of
any work around for your issue.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Sep  3 00:28:05 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 15:28:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Case sensitive problem w/ list serve
In-Reply-To: <p06200746bf3e6ce54a3c@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <PC174020050902152805009382cb6182@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 4:30 PM -0400 2005-09-02, Darren G Pifer wrote:
>
>>  Also, the sendmail mailer flag "u" which is being used and according to
>>  the Bat book causes the case of the user part of the address to remain.
>>  I also don't see anywhere in the mm-handler script that will do the
>>  case conversion for us. So, it looks we could either remove the "u"
>>  mailer flag or do the case conversion in the mm-handler script. Is there
>>  is preference which one we should modify?
>
>	It would probably be easier to change the sendmail mailer 
>definition, but if you modified the mm-handler script and contributed 
>that back to the project (i.e., upload it to the page for Mailman 
>SourceForge patches), then other Mailman administrators could make 
>use of that modified script.

It looks to me like the problem is really a bug in mm-handler.
Normally, there is not an issue when aliases are used to invoke the
wrapper.

The problem appears to be that mm-handler just assumes the recipient
address of the incoming mail is lower case. I.e. the 'validfields'
which are used to validate the command portion of the
listname-command at ... address are all lower case and the listname
portion is used in a test to see if the $prefix/listname/config.pck
file exists.

I'm not fluent in perl, but it seems that

        $list = $addr;

in the following piece of mm-handler
 

ADDR:   for $addr (@to) {
        $prev = undef;
        $list = $addr;

should be

        $list = lc $addr;

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Sep  3 01:39:01 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 16:39:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A non-text attachment was scrubbed... -- URL
	break
In-Reply-To: <61643EB090923342B22CA86AA408E42F02EDF1AA@exchange.finance.state.mn.us>
Message-ID: <PC174020050902163901070385b3b720@msapiro>

Tim Willson wrote:

>If I set Non-digest options/"Scrub attachments of regular delivery message?"
>to Yes my archived messages URL's have an extra = in the URL string at the
>end of line one and a line break making the URL 2 lines and non-clickable.
<snip>
>
> -------------- next part -------------- 
>A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 
>Name: Official notice Spam Filtering Implementation Update 09030.pdf Type:
>application/octet-stream Size: 76382 bytes 
>Desc: not available 
>Url : <http://www.mn.us/pipermail/listname/attachments/20050901/2d8=>
>eb35e/OfficialnoticeSpamFilteringUpdate09030.pdf 

This was at some point a quoted-printable encoding. I don't know where
the '>' at the end of the first line came from, but in
quoted-printable speak the '=' at the end of the first line of

Url : <http://www.mn.us/pipermail/listname/attachments/20050901/2d8=
eb35e/OfficialnoticeSpamFilteringUpdate09030.pdf 

means "there is really no line-break here - join this line to the next".

I've looked at Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py, and it doesn't put angle
brackets ('<', '>') around the urls. I don't know where they are
coming from, but I don't think Mailman is doing it.

Likewise, Scrubber.py does not produce a quoted-printable encoded
message. It produces a message with Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit.

So it looks like somewhere in the outgoing MTA path, an MTA is
converting 8bit to quoted-printable which is changing

Url :
http://www.mn.us/pipermail/listname/attachments/20050901/2d8eb35e/OfficialnoticeSpamFilteringUpdate09030.pdf

to

Url : http://www.mn.us/pipermail/listname/attachments/20050901/2d8=
eb35e/OfficialnoticeSpamFilteringUpdate09030.pdf

and then somewhere further along, something is not correctly
interpreting the quoted-printable encoding - perhaps the thing which
is putting the angle brackets around the
http://www.mn.us/pipermail/listname/attachments/20050901/2d8= part.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jwblist at olympus.net  Sat Sep  3 01:43:02 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 16:43:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Enabling personalization with Digest Mode?
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200509021453240546ab9ca9da@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BF3E3196.7C30%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 9/2/05 2:53 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> David Morris wrote:
> 
>> I have a subscriber to digest mode whose ISP is mandating her email
>> address be in the To or CC header.
>> 
>> The only way I can see to do this is through personalization. I have
>> seen where I can do that with non-digest messages, but I can't find
>> where I can do that with Digests. I would prefer (for performance
>> reasons) to not enable personalization for the larger list, and turn it
>> on just for the digest list.
>> 
>> Can it be done? If not, how can I work around it (running mailman on
>> Debian Linux with exim4)
> 
> Personalized digests are not supported in Mailman 2.1. I'm not aware of
> any work around for your issue.

GMail, Yahoo Mail, etc.

As I've said before, the spammers have broken email.  This kind of
requirement is just another example.

  --John




From hannah at schlund.de  Sat Sep  3 14:51:51 2005
From: hannah at schlund.de (Hannah Schroeter)
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:51:51 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Enabling personalization with Digest Mode?
In-Reply-To: <BF3E3196.7C30%jwblist@olympus.net>
References: <PC1740200509021453240546ab9ca9da@msapiro>
	<BF3E3196.7C30%jwblist@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <20050903125151.GA5143@schlund.de>

Hello!

On Fri, Sep 02, 2005 at 04:43:02PM -0700, John W. Baxter wrote:
>[...]

>>> I have a subscriber to digest mode whose ISP is mandating her email
>>> address be in the To or CC header.

>[...]

>As I've said before, the spammers have broken email.  This kind of
>requirement is just another example.

Especially if the user can't make exceptions with a whitelist or
similar.

>  --John

Kind regards,

Hannah.


From jelly+mailman-users-via-gmane at srk.fer.hr  Sat Sep  3 18:29:06 2005
From: jelly+mailman-users-via-gmane at srk.fer.hr (Zoran Dzelajlija)
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:29:06 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change list name
References: <r02010400-1039-0C9818ED1B2911DA866C000A95845562@[66.170.10.196]>
	<PC17402005090118141604536ac6fbd5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20050903162906.47E4.6.NOFFLE@islands.iskon.hr>

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
[...]
> The post at
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-August/046316.html
> gives more detail on how you might actually do this including
> archives, but it does neglect to mention the aliases.

Here's a checklist used here:

------------------
What are the steps to rename a mailing list foo to bar?
(Original found at http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/1999-January/000308.html).

 0. Stop Mailman!

 - (2.1 only) mailmanctl stop
 - disable the crontab lines (at least qrunner if still on Mailman 2.0),
   check if something's still running.
 - disable the web interface.

 1. Get hands dirty:

 - cd /var/local/mailman (or wherever your installation is)
 - mv archives/private/foo.mbox archives/private/bar.mbox
 - mv archives/private/foo archives/private/bar
 - [ -h archives/public/foo.mbox ] && \
     rm archives/public/foo.mbox \
     ln -sf ../archives/private/bar.mbox archives/public
 - [ -h archives/public/foo ] && \
     rm archives/public/foo \
     ln -sf ../archives/private/bar archives/public
 - mv lists/foo lists/bar
 - change the real_name attribute, eg.
   2.0:  echo "real_name = 'bar'" > burek
         bin/config_list -i burek bar
         rm burek
   2.1:  like above, or use withlist.
         bin/withlist bar
         >>> m.real_name='bar'
         >>> m.Lock()
         >>> m.Save()
         >>> m.Unlock()
         >>> ^D
 - ls -la data/heldmsg-foo-* # look out for heldmsg-foo-otherlist-*
   for i in data/heldmsg-foo-*
   do
     mv $i `echo $i|sed s/foo/bar/`
   done
 - locks/foo.lock -> locks/bar.lock
 - fix aliases

 2. restart Mailman qrunner:

 - restore crontab
 - /etc/init.d/mailman start
 - enable the web interface

 3. Test:

 - check admin GUI (try changing case in real_name), archives,
   sending mail to list, and headers of received mail for unexpected
   behaviour.

 - TODO: (2.0 only) data/pending_subscriptions.db

------------------

There must be a reason why the archives ought to be recreated, but
I can't seem to remember it now.  I don't do that because we have
lots of mails without the Date header in the archives, and the
they all get the current date on archive recreation.

Regards,
Zoran



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Sep  3 19:04:52 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 10:04:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change list name
In-Reply-To: <20050903162906.47E4.6.NOFFLE@islands.iskon.hr>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509031004520843b34ef5bf@msapiro>

Zoran Dzelajlija wrote:
>
>Here's a checklist used here:
>
>------------------
>What are the steps to rename a mailing list foo to bar?
>(Original found at http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/1999-January/000308.html).
>
<snip>
>
> - cd /var/local/mailman (or wherever your installation is)

I think you want another step here (I see it's not in the original post
either)

- mv archives/private/foo.mbox/foo.mbox \
  archives/private/foo.mbox/bar.mbox

It's not critical. If you leave it out, you wind up with a foo.mbox
file containing pre-rename posts and a bar.mbox file containing
post-rename posts, but that complicates archive rebuilding in the
future and searching if you use the .mbox files for that.

> - mv archives/private/foo.mbox archives/private/bar.mbox
> - mv archives/private/foo archives/private/bar
<snip>
>
>There must be a reason why the archives ought to be recreated, but
>I can't seem to remember it now.  I don't do that because we have
>lots of mails without the Date header in the archives, and the
>they all get the current date on archive recreation.


The archives are full of links to the list's listinfo page. HTML pages
created after the move will contain the correct link to the new page,
but older pages will contain a link to the old page which no longer
exists. In general, the easiest way to fix this is to rebuild the
archive after the move, although in your case this may not be true.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From andrew at cnet.org  Sat Sep  3 20:31:02 2005
From: andrew at cnet.org (Andrew Steele)
Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 19:31:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New mailman user
Message-ID: <4319F9F6.274.76FEAB@andrew.cnet.org>

I'm a new Mailman user.  I've just had my ISP install Mailman for me.  
They created a test list and this appears to work just fine.

I've now created the first list for myself using the web browser 
interface.

On sending a test message I receive a copy of the message - I am the list 
owner AND also subscribed to the list.

The other addresses which are subscribed are not receiving the test 
messages.

Each of the subscribed addresses did receive a welcome message.

Also, in the list set-up I left the setting for RFC 2369 List-* headers 
to YES but they do not appear in the message header I receive neither is 
the Subject line prefix appearing in the received message.

The mailer at the ISP is Exim 4.43.

If anyone could suggest a route for finding out what I've done wrong or 
what settings need to be changed that would be really helpful.

Thanks in advance - especially if I'm asking a dumb question...

Thanks

Andrew Steele



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Sep  3 21:25:54 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:25:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New mailman user
In-Reply-To: <4319F9F6.274.76FEAB@andrew.cnet.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402005090312255401254d50e953@msapiro>

Andrew Steele wrote:

>I'm a new Mailman user.  I've just had my ISP install Mailman for me.  
>They created a test list and this appears to work just fine.
>
>I've now created the first list for myself using the web browser 
>interface.
>
>On sending a test message I receive a copy of the message - I am the list 
>owner AND also subscribed to the list.


To what address are you sending the message? The symptoms you describe
are exactly what you'd see if you are sending to listname-owner at ...
instead of listname at ...


>The other addresses which are subscribed are not receiving the test 
>messages.
>
>Each of the subscribed addresses did receive a welcome message.
>
>Also, in the list set-up I left the setting for RFC 2369 List-* headers 
>to YES but they do not appear in the message header I receive neither is 
>the Subject line prefix appearing in the received message.
>
>The mailer at the ISP is Exim 4.43.


If you are sending to the listname at ... address, it might be an alias or
Exim/Mailman integration problem. Exim/Mailman integration is
described at http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html.


>If anyone could suggest a route for finding out what I've done wrong or 
>what settings need to be changed that would be really helpful.


The FAQ at
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp
covers some things, but they are for the most part not things a list
owner with only web access to Mailman can do.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From andrew at cnet.org  Sat Sep  3 22:22:01 2005
From: andrew at cnet.org (Andrew Steele)
Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 21:22:01 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New mailman user
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005090312255401254d50e953@msapiro>
References: <4319F9F6.274.76FEAB@andrew.cnet.org>
Message-ID: <431A13F9.17261.DC9A90@andrew.cnet.org>

On 3 Sep 2005 at 12:25, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> To what address are you sending the message? The symptoms you describe
> are exactly what you'd see if you are sending to listname-owner at ...
> instead of listname at ... 

Thanks for the reply...

I went back and double checked.  I was definitely sending to the list 
address rather than listname-owner.


> If you are sending to the listname at ... address, it might be an alias or
> Exim/Mailman integration problem. Exim/Mailman integration is described at
> http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html.

It does seem that the aliases are somehome not correctly created.  I 
checked the aliases file and only the test list had its aliases in the 
file.

> The FAQ at
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp
> covers some things, but they are for the most part not things a list
> owner with only web access to Mailman can do.

I have shell access so ran the check_perms routine which threw up 12 
errors

     ./check_perms
     directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin
     /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/edithtml must be set-gid
     /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/confirm must be set-gid
     /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo must be set-gid
     /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/admin must be set-gid
     /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/create must be set-gid
     /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/subscribe must be set-gid
     /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/admindb must be set-gid
     /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/rmlist must be set-gid
     /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/roster must be set-gid
     /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/options must be set-gid
     /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/private must be set-gid

So I ran check_perms -f and the fixes went through.  I then ran rmlist to 
delete the problem list with the intention of recreating it from scratch 
now the permissions have been fixed.

Now, sadly, going to the mailman pages returns a 500 error - typically I 
found this error caused by faulty .htaccess files but I'm not sure where, 
if at all, this file might be located within the Mailman configuration.

So I'm still open to helpful insights.

Andrew Steele





From msapiro at value.net  Sun Sep  4 00:14:58 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:14:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New mailman user
In-Reply-To: <431A13F9.17261.DC9A90@andrew.cnet.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402005090315145808906e267a74@msapiro>

Andrew Steele wrote:

>On 3 Sep 2005 at 12:25, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> If you are sending to the listname at ... address, it might be an alias or
>> Exim/Mailman integration problem. Exim/Mailman integration is described at
>> http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html.
>
>It does seem that the aliases are somehome not correctly created.  I 
>checked the aliases file and only the test list had its aliases in the 
>file.



Exim doesn't need aliases to work with Mailman. If it is integrated per
the above howto document, it actually looks at the Mailman lists/
directory to determine whether an address is for a Mailman list. Thus
aliases don't need to be added or removed when lists are created or
deleted.


>> The FAQ at
>> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp
>> covers some things, but they are for the most part not things a list
>> owner with only web access to Mailman can do.
>
>I have shell access so ran the check_perms routine which threw up 12 
>errors
>
>     ./check_perms
>     directory permissions must be 02775: /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin
>     /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/edithtml must be set-gid
>     /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/confirm must be set-gid
>     /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo must be set-gid
>     /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/admin must be set-gid
>     /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/create must be set-gid
>     /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/subscribe must be set-gid
>     /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/admindb must be set-gid
>     /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/rmlist must be set-gid
>     /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/roster must be set-gid
>     /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/options must be set-gid
>     /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/private must be set-gid
>
>So I ran check_perms -f and the fixes went through.  I then ran rmlist to 
>delete the problem list with the intention of recreating it from scratch 
>now the permissions have been fixed.



These check_perms errors only have to do with the operation of the web
interface. They wouldn't have affected the operation of the list.


>Now, sadly, going to the mailman pages returns a 500 error - typically I 
>found this error caused by faulty .htaccess files but I'm not sure where, 
>if at all, this file might be located within the Mailman configuration.


I'm guessing you now have a cgi wrapper group mismatch error. See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp

Also, if you have access to your web server's error log, look there for
more specific information. Also, be sure the group of the cgi-bin/
directory and the wrappers it contains is the Mailman's group.


--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From chis4 at mac.com  Sun Sep  4 02:46:52 2005
From: chis4 at mac.com (chis4 at mac.com)
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 20:46:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List Questions
Message-ID: <9DF87BFC-2BBE-4A96-9158-57272F3A0D7A@mac.com>

By the questions you can tell I am a beginner.  I tried to find my  
answers through the many FAQ's.

I am a mailing list administrator.

There seems to be two ways an address can be added to the list:

1) My entering them by Mass Subscription under the Member  
Management...Section.
Addresses entered this way appear in a Member List table.  Good.

2) My approving a request (via email) to add a new address to the list.
Addresses approved by this method do not appear in the Member List  
table mentioned in item #1;  I call them invisible.
Question:    Where and how do I find these invisible addresses?


The list has only 100 addresses and is seasonal.  The beginning of  
each season it would be easier to dump all the addresses and Mass  
Subscribe a fresh list.
Question:    Is there an easy way to dump the lists generated by the  
two methods mentioned above?

Thank you,

Chis




  


From tseeney at sympatico.ca  Sun Sep  4 04:36:21 2005
From: tseeney at sympatico.ca (Seeney, Tim)
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 22:36:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Just getting started....
Message-ID: <BAYC1-PASMTP03130A9E7D03C8463601D8C4A50@cez.ice>

I could use a little help here..so anything would be appreciated.

 

The ISP for a client I am doing some web work for told me they use Mailman.
I downloaded the install file locally onto my machine.  When I go to the
clients' "lists" admin site (as told to by the ISP Help Desk), it states
there are no email lists created - this stands to reason as no one has ever
created a list for this user yet.

 

After I downloaded the install files for mailman locally, I am unsure what
to do next - do I upload all the files from the local folder to the website
and start that way or do I create the lists from the files on my local
machine?  Also, I've been reading many of the install info..and it appears I
have to create a local group and user for customizing the lists, etc...is
this true?

 

Finally, I see people are referring to the "web interface" to create the
email lists - what file under which folder do you launch to do this, and do
you do this locally or after you upload the files to the website?

 

Obviously, I'm a little confused so a little help would be greatly
appreciated - even a point in the right direction would be appreciated..as a
step by step guide I find the guide provided by the makers a
little..lacking.  Maybe I'm reading the wrong document though.

 

Thanks,

 

Tim



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Sep  4 04:53:52 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 19:53:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List Questions
In-Reply-To: <9DF87BFC-2BBE-4A96-9158-57272F3A0D7A@mac.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020050903195352048403417b58@msapiro>

chis4 at mac.com wrote:
>
>I am a mailing list administrator.
>
>There seems to be two ways an address can be added to the list:
>
>1) My entering them by Mass Subscription under the Member  
>Management...Section.
>Addresses entered this way appear in a Member List table.  Good.


Do you mean the letter of alphabet tables of the Membership List under
the Member Management...Section?


>2) My approving a request (via email) to add a new address to the list.
>Addresses approved by this method do not appear in the Member List  
>table mentioned in item #1;  I call them invisible.
>Question:    Where and how do I find these invisible addresses?


Are you saying you get a notice of a pending subscription from Mailman
that says
----------------------------- start
Your authorization is required for a mailing list subscription request
approval:

    For:  user at example.com
    List: list at example.com

At your convenience, visit:

    http://www.example.com/mailman/admindb/list
	
to process the request.
----------------------------- end

Or you get a summary of requests, and you go to the admindb url and
approve the subscription request and user at example.com doesn't appear
on the Membership List under the Member Management...Section?

If yes, then I don't know what's going on. If something else, please be
more specific about what member list table, what e-mail and what
action you take. 

>The list has only 100 addresses and is seasonal.  The beginning of  
>each season it would be easier to dump all the addresses and Mass  
>Subscribe a fresh list.
>Question:    Is there an easy way to dump the lists generated by the  
>two methods mentioned above?


There are several ways to get a membership list. The command line tool
bin/list_members will list all members. The Membership List under the
Member Management...Section lists all members but not in a convenient
form, but see
http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#throughtheweb for a way
to script this and get a nice list. The e-mail 'who' command and the
web roster both give reasonably usable lists, but they don't show
those members who've opted not to be shown.

Note that if "Conceal the member's address" is checked in
new_member_options under the General Options Section, all new members
will be opted out of the latter two lists, but I don't think that is
your issue because it also applies to mass subscription.

Once you have a list, you can process it via Mass Removal under the
Member Management...Section.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Sep  4 05:09:55 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 20:09:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Just getting started....
In-Reply-To: <BAYC1-PASMTP03130A9E7D03C8463601D8C4A50@cez.ice>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509032009550125b90d2854@msapiro>

Seeney, Tim wrote:
>
>The ISP for a client I am doing some web work for told me they use Mailman.


OK, so it's installed on the ISP's machine - you don't need to do
anything with Mailman software on your machine. You use the web
interface on the ISP's machine to create and manage lists there.


>I downloaded the install file locally onto my machine.  When I go to the
>clients' "lists" admin site (as told to by the ISP Help Desk), it states
>there are no email lists created - this stands to reason as no one has ever
>created a list for this user yet.


Is this the URL http://host.name/mailman/admin or something similar?
Does it return a page titled "host.name mailing lists - Admin Links"?
Is there a "create a new mailing list" link at the end of the first
paragraph or somewhere on that page?


>After I downloaded the install files for mailman locally, I am unsure what
>to do next - do I upload all the files from the local folder to the website
>and start that way or do I create the lists from the files on my local
>machine?  Also, I've been reading many of the install info..and it appears I
>have to create a local group and user for customizing the lists, etc...is
>this true?


No, you don't want to install Mailman. You want to use the existing
installation at the ISP.


>Finally, I see people are referring to the "web interface" to create the
>email lists - what file under which folder do you launch to do this, and do
>you do this locally or after you upload the files to the website?


You don't launch anything. You go to the admin interface URL at the
host and create and administer the list there.


>Obviously, I'm a little confused so a little help would be greatly
>appreciated - even a point in the right direction would be appreciated..as a
>step by step guide I find the guide provided by the makers a
>little..lacking.  Maybe I'm reading the wrong document though.


I think you are. See http://www.list.org/admins.html Unfortunately,
neither document there is complete as the first is for Mailman 2.0,
not 2.1 and the second is unfinished, but they may help. You should
not be reading installation documentation, at least not yet.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hmag at ozemail.com.au  Sun Sep  4 05:16:37 2005
From: hmag at ozemail.com.au (Terry Allen)
Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 13:16:37 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Just getting started....
In-Reply-To: <BAYC1-PASMTP03130A9E7D03C8463601D8C4A50@cez.ice>
References: <BAYC1-PASMTP03130A9E7D03C8463601D8C4A50@cez.ice>
Message-ID: <p06230901bf40156947fd@[203.53.37.182]>

>I could use a little help here..so anything would be appreciated.
>
>
>
>The ISP for a client I am doing some web work for told me they use Mailman.
>I downloaded the install file locally onto my machine.  When I go to the
>clients' "lists" admin site (as told to by the ISP Help Desk), it states
>there are no email lists created - this stands to reason as no one has ever
>created a list for this user yet.
>
>
>
>After I downloaded the install files for mailman locally, I am unsure what
>to do next - do I upload all the files from the local folder to the website
>and start that way or do I create the lists from the files on my local
>machine?  Also, I've been reading many of the install info..and it appears I
>have to create a local group and user for customizing the lists, etc...is
>this true?
>
>
>
>Finally, I see people are referring to the "web interface" to create the
>email lists - what file under which folder do you launch to do this, and do
>you do this locally or after you upload the files to the website?
>
>
>
>Obviously, I'm a little confused so a little help would be greatly
>appreciated - even a point in the right direction would be appreciated..as a
>step by step guide I find the guide provided by the makers a
>little..lacking.  Maybe I'm reading the wrong document though.
>
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>
>
>Tim
>

Hi again,
	I'm not overly clear on what you want here - are you saying 
that the client has their hosting already running Mailman? If this is 
the case, then there is no need for you to do anything on your local 
machine.
	The typical web interface is something along the lines of:

http://www.domain.com/mailman/admin

	The ISP should be able to provide you with login details for 
creating the list. I hope this is of at least some use for you.
-- 

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___________________________________________________________________
hEARd

Postal Address:
	hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd,	Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia
Internet -
	WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com
EMAIL: hmag at ozemail.com.au
Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400
Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400
-----------------------------------------------
Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994
-----------------------------------------------


From lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il  Sun Sep  4 08:21:26 2005
From: lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il (lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il)
Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 09:21:26 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman installation
Message-ID: <5570AD7B7ABD5F4493883FF8F482BC94014CF705@exchsrv01.haifa.edu>

Hi,
In case your MTA is Postfix do as follows:
After installing mailman via YaST or with .rpm package (with all the dependencies) we go to - CONFIGURING MAILMAN:

1) To check if the permissions on mailman files are right, run /usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms -f

2)
a) In the Apache:
vi /etc/apache2/default-server.conf (add these lines):
##################
##
## mailman
##

ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/"

<Directory "/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/">
        AllowOverride None
        Options ExecCGI
        Order allow,deny
        Allow from all
</Directory>

Alias /pipermail/ "/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/"
<Directory "/var/lib/mailman/archives/public">
    AddDefaultCharset Off
    Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks
    AllowOverride None
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>

# Redirect queries to /mailman to the listinfo page (recommended) RedirectMatch /mailman[/]*$ http://myserver.haifa.ac.il/mailman/listinfo

##
## end mailman
##
##################

b) cp /usr/lib/mailman/icons/* /usr/share/apache2/icons/

c) vi /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py (make sure this line is like this):
IMAGE_LOGOS = '/icons/'


3) vi /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py (add this line if not already there, it is sitewide list):
MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'

4)
a) vi /etc/postfix/main.cf (make sure this line looks like this):
alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases

Note:
you may also add thes lines to main.cf (I've added):
# Mailman stuff #
owner_request_special = no
recipient_delimiter = +
# End of Mailman stuff

b)Initialize aliases file: 
/usr/lib/mailman/bin/genaliases

c) chown mailman:mailman /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases*

6) install python-xml to solve cgi-script "low level failure" (this is SuSE specific problem):

Note:
What seems to be common here is the occurance on SUSE.  In my search for a solution I found that this occurs with on auto-update on Suse - patch 10 for mailman 2.1.4 to be exact. See:

    http://www.novell.com/linux/download/updates/91_i386.html

What's interesting is that this patch can be installed without a
dependency: python-xml.

So, if you are encoutering this problem, the likely problem is that you are missing a dependency, and the solution is drop-dead easy:  Just install python-xml

5) Now create widesite list
# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/newlist mailman admin at comp.ac.il

6) Configure widesite list:
# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/config_list -i /var/lib/mailman/data/sitelist.cfg mailman

7) Set up cron:
# /usr/lib/mailman/cron/crontab -u mailman crontab.in

8) Now start it and go to the web interface to check it:
# insserv mailman
# /etc/init.d/mailman start

9) # vi /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py (Edit the following line to correspond with your mail domain, if it is OK skip this step and step number 10):
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'myserver.haifa.ac.il'

10) To fix the URL of any existing list run (for example for mailman list):
# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/withlist -l -r fix_url mailman

11) Create 'site password':
# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mmsitepass secret

12) Create 'list creator' password:
# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mmsitepass -c secret2

13) Create your first mailing list, and enjoy.

Best Regards,
Leon Kolchinsky  

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+lkolchin=univ.haifa.ac.il at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+lkolchin=univ.haifa.ac.il at python.org] On Behalf Of Mohammad Moghimi
Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 10:33 PM
To: Mailman-Users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman installation

Hi
I'm using SuSE Linux Professional 9.3. Is there any howto or documetation for installing mailman in SuSE.? As you know MailMan is in default packages of SuSE 9.3.

-- Mohammad
do you Python?!!
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lkolchin%40univ.haifa.ac.il

Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From andreas at rittershofer.de  Mon Sep  5 19:49:19 2005
From: andreas at rittershofer.de (Andreas Rittershofer)
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 19:49:19 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Webinterface not changing values
Message-ID: <1125942559.3699.58.camel@coredump>

In Debian I made recently a dist-upgrade and got Mailman 2.1.5.
Everything is running fine except the web interface: it shows all pages
but I cannt change any value and cannot figure out the reason.

Any help is aprreciated!

mfg ar
-- 
E-Learning in der Schule:
http://www.dbg-metzingen.de/Menschen/Lehrer/Q-T/Rittershofer/E-Learning/



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Sep  5 21:57:07 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 12:57:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Webinterface not changing values
In-Reply-To: <1125942559.3699.58.camel@coredump>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509051257070937ab4ce470@msapiro>

Andreas Rittershofer wrote:

>In Debian I made recently a dist-upgrade and got Mailman 2.1.5.
>Everything is running fine except the web interface: it shows all pages
>but I cannt change any value and cannot figure out the reason.
>

Have you looked at
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From andrew at cnet.org  Mon Sep  5 23:33:47 2005
From: andrew at cnet.org (Andrew Steele)
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 22:33:47 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New mailman user
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005090315145808906e267a74@msapiro>
References: <431A13F9.17261.DC9A90@andrew.cnet.org>
Message-ID: <431CC7CB.29647.237446A@andrew.cnet.org>

On 3 Sep 2005 at 15:14, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> I'm guessing you now have a cgi wrapper group mismatch error. See
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp

Thanks for this although I certainly hope this isn't the case.  I'm 
fast reaching the point of throwing the towel in :-(

> Also, if you have access to your web server's error log, look there for
> more specific information. 

I checked and find every attempt to access the mailman/admin or 
listinfo addresses eg: http://airedale.cnet.org/mailman/listinfo 
returns the following entry in the web server log:

[Mon Sep  5 22:11:09 2005] [error] [client 82.38.50.159] Premature 
end of script headers: /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo

I'm open to suggestions as to what this might be caused by...

> Also, be sure the group of the cgi-bin/ directory and the wrappers it
> contains is the Mailman's group. 

These both user and group mailman.

Still hoping for a solution... :-)

Andrew



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Sep  5 23:54:12 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 14:54:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New mailman user
In-Reply-To: <431CC7CB.29647.237446A@andrew.cnet.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509051454120078ab4ce11a@msapiro>

Andrew Steele wrote:
>
>I checked and find every attempt to access the mailman/admin or 
>listinfo addresses eg: http://airedale.cnet.org/mailman/listinfo 
>returns the following entry in the web server log:
>
>[Mon Sep  5 22:11:09 2005] [error] [client 82.38.50.159] Premature 
>end of script headers: /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo
>
>I'm open to suggestions as to what this might be caused by...

SuExec in the apache config. See
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-August/038874.html
and the web page it points to.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From andrew at cnet.org  Tue Sep  6 09:05:17 2005
From: andrew at cnet.org (Andrew Steele)
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 08:05:17 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New mailman user
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200509051454120078ab4ce11a@msapiro>
References: <431CC7CB.29647.237446A@andrew.cnet.org>
Message-ID: <431D4DBD.7960.4427D2B@andrew.cnet.org>

On 5 Sep 2005 at 14:54, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> SuExec in the apache config. See
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-August/038874.html and
> the web page it points to.

Whilst on 5 Sep 2005 at 16:48, Dan Phillips wrote:

> I don't remember the specifics of your setup (OS, MTA, etc.), but  
> have you seen http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/ 
> msg32861.html ?


Thanks both for the pointers. I'll speak with the guys at the ISP who 
initially installed mailman and see if we can now get a fix :-)  I'll 
report back so others can follwo the the tread to its conclusion.

Thanks again.

Andrew



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Sep  6 16:08:36 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:08:36 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mmdsr -- Mailman Daily Status Reports (Bourne shell
 script, updated)
Message-ID: <p0620077dbf4353103e01@[10.0.1.210]>

Folks,

	Just wanted to let you know that I've updated the version of the 
script attached to the patch at 
<https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1123383&group_id=103&atid=300103>. 
This is the latest version, and we're currently using this to monitor 
the mailing lists on python.org.

	Any comments you may have will be appreciated.  Thanks!

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From dpifer at odu.edu  Tue Sep  6 16:08:51 2005
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 10:08:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Complaints about MM 2.1.6b4
Message-ID: <1126015731.32089.23.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

Hello,

       We had a few complaints from one of our list admins about
the new version of mailman 2.1.6b4 we upgraded to in June. The
previous version of mailman was version 2.0.13. I can not imagine
that any features were removed between versions, however, they
may have been moved. I am still getting familiar with the new
mailman but do not know everything the new version has. If someone
has come across these of these issues, please reply.

Here are the issues the list admin raised:

Our list serves are moderated - so the faculty cannot send something to
the list without our approval.  The lists are for "us" to notify about
classroom issues.

The old system had a box to enter addresses for all people who can post
to the list without administrator approval.  We were able to "copy and
paste" the same list into each list serve. The "box" does not exist in
the new system.

The new system has a "check-box". For each person in our "copy and
paste" list we have to "uncheck" the MOD box.  You can make the MOD box
default to checked or not-checked.  So we either have to "check" each
faculty member or "uncheck" all of us.

In the new system there is a box that allows you to grant
"non-moderated" access to email addresses who are NOT members of the
list.  So to try and FIX the problem, we entered Classroom at odu.edu as a
"non-member" to this box - in EVERY List Serve, so we could post to the
list serves from this address - and not have to manually go to every
list serve and uncheck the box for everyone who can post to the list
without administrator approval.

The newest problem is:  Because Classroom is a shared email account, it
shows the "real sender" - who is a member of the list with a check-mark
in the MOD box, so it holds the email and waits for administrator
approval.

So - we'll make one more pass through 50+ listserves and remove the
check box for 8-10 members.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= end of list admin issues

Darren
Old Dominion University




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Sep  6 16:29:44 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:29:44 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Complaints about MM 2.1.6b4
In-Reply-To: <1126015731.32089.23.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
References: <1126015731.32089.23.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <p0620077fbf4356e72478@[10.0.1.210]>

At 10:08 AM -0400 2005-09-06, Darren G Pifer wrote:

>  The old system had a box to enter addresses for all people who can post
>  to the list without administrator approval.  We were able to "copy and
>  paste" the same list into each list serve. The "box" does not exist in
>  the new system.

	Yes, it does.  Go to the web admin interface for your list.  Go 
to the "Privacy options..." section.  From there, go down to the 
"Sender filters" sub-page.  The second box down from the top will 
have the description "List of non-member addresses whose postings 
should be automatically accepted."  That's what you want.

>  The new system has a "check-box". For each person in our "copy and
>  paste" list we have to "uncheck" the MOD box.  You can make the MOD box
>  default to checked or not-checked.  So we either have to "check" each
>  faculty member or "uncheck" all of us.

	That's setting the individual moderated flag.  You don't want 
that.  See above.

>  The newest problem is:  Because Classroom is a shared email account, it
>  shows the "real sender" - who is a member of the list with a check-mark
>  in the MOD box, so it holds the email and waits for administrator
>  approval.

	Make sure that your MUA properly uses the desired sender address 
as both the envelope sender and in the header "From:" and "Sender:" 
fields.

	Or, go into your mm_cfg.py file and change what fields you look 
at for determining list membership.  If you don't have explicit 
settings for this, see the examples from Defaults.py, then copy them 
over to mm_cfg.py and change as necessary for your installation.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From elvisfern at gmail.com  Tue Sep  6 18:28:18 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:28:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail debug question
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50509060928767bb031@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
 I am new to mailman, and having installed mailman on solaris I am testing 
it out now.
 Here is what I am doing:
(1) Test a mail-list.
I created a mail-list unix_sysadmin, and from my mail, I send out a test 
email to unix_sysadmin at hostname
The hostname is the solaris host where I have setup mailman, and my email is 
the only account in the unux_sysadmin list now.
I do not receive this test email.
(2) Tested email from mailman host
I send out a test email from root to my email, and I received that.
 So, what am I missing here?
Is there a way to debug?
 Thanks
Elvis Fernandes


From andreas at rittershofer.de  Tue Sep  6 18:49:32 2005
From: andreas at rittershofer.de (Andreas Rittershofer)
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 18:49:32 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Webinterface not changing values
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200509051257070937ab4ce470@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200509051257070937ab4ce470@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1126025372.3671.18.camel@coredump>

Am Montag, den 05.09.2005, 12:57 -0700 schrieb Mark Sapiro:
> Andreas Rittershofer wrote:
> 
> >In Debian I made recently a dist-upgrade and got Mailman 2.1.5.
> >Everything is running fine except the web interface: it shows all pages
> >but I cannt change any value and cannot figure out the reason.
> >
> 
> Have you looked at
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp

Thank you very much, problem solved!

It was the "fix_url" thing.

mfg ar

-- 
E-Learning in der Schule:
http://www.dbg-metzingen.de/Menschen/Lehrer/Q-T/Rittershofer/E-Learning/



From jim at jimnull.com  Tue Sep  6 20:55:27 2005
From: jim at jimnull.com (Jim Null)
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 13:55:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending in Batch
Message-ID: <001201c5b314$8c7d0ad0$380a0a0a@JNullWinbook>

My host only allows 200 emails per hours and 50 emails in five minutes to go
out.  We have 97 members on one list that is growing.  Does Mailman offer a
timed-batch feature that I can set to send out emails over a period of time
that won't violate my hosts policies?
 
 
---------------------------------
Jim Null
Telephone: 903.236.0547
Email: jim at jimnull.com or info at longviewnet.com
Visit our web sites at: www.jimnull.com <http://www.jimnull.com/>  or
www.longviewnet.com <http://www.longviewnet.com/> 
Or, contact me on MSN Messenger as jim at jimnull.com

La Vida de Esperanza... I Peter
<http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=67&chapter=1&verse=3&version=3
1&context=verse> 1:3
 


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Sep  6 21:40:00 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 21:40:00 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending in Batch
In-Reply-To: <001201c5b314$8c7d0ad0$380a0a0a@JNullWinbook>
References: <001201c5b314$8c7d0ad0$380a0a0a@JNullWinbook>
Message-ID: <p0620078ebf43a0fc8151@[10.0.1.210]>

At 1:55 PM -0500 2005-09-06, Jim Null wrote:

>  My host only allows 200 emails per hours and 50 emails in five minutes to go
>  out.  We have 97 members on one list that is growing.  Does Mailman offer a
>  timed-batch feature that I can set to send out emails over a period of time
>  that won't violate my hosts policies?

	Go to the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py>.  Search for "throttle".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From chris at westnet.com  Tue Sep  6 21:46:25 2005
From: chris at westnet.com (Christopher X. Candreva)
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 15:46:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending in Batch
In-Reply-To: <001201c5b314$8c7d0ad0$380a0a0a@JNullWinbook>
References: <001201c5b314$8c7d0ad0$380a0a0a@JNullWinbook>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.62.0509061543040.19689@westnet.com>

On Tue, 6 Sep 2005, Jim Null wrote:

> My host only allows 200 emails per hours and 50 emails in five minutes to go
> out.  We have 97 members on one list that is growing.  Does Mailman offer a
> timed-batch feature that I can set to send out emails over a period of time
> that won't violate my hosts policies?

I think you may need to either see if you can pay for additional mail usage, 
or look into alternate hosting, either for your site or just your mailing 
list. the FAQ entry referenced says this would need to be done at the MTA 
level, meaning your hosting provider.

Feel free to contact me off-list if you think you need outside hosting for 
the list. We haven't turned list hosting into a 'product' yet, but have done 
it on request.

-Chris

==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Sep  7 05:52:40 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 20:52:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail debug question
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc50509060928767bb031@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509062052400921a13d1461@msapiro>

Elvis Fernandes wrote:

> Here is what I am doing:
>(1) Test a mail-list.
>I created a mail-list unix_sysadmin, and from my mail, I send out a test 
>email to unix_sysadmin at hostname
>The hostname is the solaris host where I have setup mailman, and my email is 
>the only account in the unux_sysadmin list now.
>I do not receive this test email.
>(2) Tested email from mailman host
>I send out a test email from root to my email, and I received that.
> So, what am I missing here?
>Is there a way to debug?


Go to the FAQ wizard

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Read article 3.14.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From andrew at cnet.org  Wed Sep  7 09:19:47 2005
From: andrew at cnet.org (Andrew Steele)
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 08:19:47 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Users off list] New mailman user
In-Reply-To: <PC174020050906184953014010504a61@msapiro>
References: <431D4DBD.7960.4427D2B@andrew.cnet.org>
Message-ID: <431EA2A3.19139.2F7D44D@andrew.cnet.org>

On 6 Sep 2005 at 18:49, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> I think if you just remove the setgid bit from the wrappers in cgi-bin,
> your web interface will work again. This will not solve the original
> problem which I think is a Mailman/Exim integration issue.

Hi Mark,

I really appreciate your continued advice to a mailman novice.

I ran  chmod =rwx,g-s * in the mailman/cgi-bin directory then 
chmod 775 * but this made no difference to the web interface - still 
generating the error so presumably the suexec is still relevant.

Interestingly if I run, for example, the admin wrapper from the shell 
all the HTML is displayed on the shell screen.

Most frustrating!

Andrew



From jrlamar at owu.edu  Wed Sep  7 15:49:55 2005
From: jrlamar at owu.edu (Jason LaMar)
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 09:49:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest "flag" in membership list? ...
Message-ID: <BF446843.CFE4%jrlamar@owu.edu>

A disclaimer: I realize our implementation is not at all what was intended
for "typical" Mailman usage, but ...

We have lists where:

* the subscribers don't know their individual passwords for Web access

* the subscribers don't have Web access to Mailman subscription features

* we (the admins) manually control whether subscribers get to use digest
mode, based on their e-mail requests

The lists are set up this way because this is the main "campus-wide
alert/announcement system" for e-mail, so we want to guarantee that everyone
is SUPPOSED to get every message sent to these lists.

OK, so here's the kicker. Based on a somewhat transient user population (we
regularly lose and add a small fraction of students, and sometimes even
employees), we've developed an external script to regularly cross-check the
current subscriber list and then update it with subscriber additions and
removals as necessary.

Unfortunately, when the lists are "refreshed," all individual subscriber
parameters (like digest mode) are wiped out to their defaults. So my
question is: Is there some sort of flag associated with each subscriber
entry that indicates digest usage, that we should be sure not to touch
during the list refresh? Or, to put it more broadly, how would you suggest
doing backend (non-subscriber) list maintenance that doesn't impact
individual subscriber preferences?



Thanks,

Jason

_________________________

Jason LaMar
Interim Director of Information Services
Libraries and Information Services
Ohio Wesleyan University; Delaware, OH 43015
Tel: 740-368-3131, Fax: 740-368-3272, Web: http://www.owu.edu/




From msapiro at value.net  Wed Sep  7 17:41:50 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 08:41:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest "flag" in membership list? ...
In-Reply-To: <BF446843.CFE4%jrlamar@owu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402005090708415008280af7ac6e@msapiro>

Jason LaMar wrote:
>
>OK, so here's the kicker. Based on a somewhat transient user population (we
>regularly lose and add a small fraction of students, and sometimes even
>employees), we've developed an external script to regularly cross-check the
>current subscriber list and then update it with subscriber additions and
>removals as necessary.
>
>Unfortunately, when the lists are "refreshed," all individual subscriber
>parameters (like digest mode) are wiped out to their defaults. So my
>question is: Is there some sort of flag associated with each subscriber
>entry that indicates digest usage, that we should be sure not to touch
>during the list refresh? Or, to put it more broadly, how would you suggest
>doing backend (non-subscriber) list maintenance that doesn't impact
>individual subscriber preferences?

Are you scripting the web interface and doing mass adds and removals or
are you directly calling the Python methods?

If the former, any mass subscribed users will get digests or not
depending on the value of the list attribute digest_is_default at the
time.

If the latter, look at Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py. In particular,
the methods getRegularMemberKeys() and getDigestMemberKeys() for
getting non-digest and digest member lists, and the addNewMember()
method which takes arguments of the form 'digest=yes|no'. Also see the
setMemberOption() method.

Note that if existing members have their digest setting changed by your
script, I think you must be deleting and readding them.

Note also, that unlike other user settings, 'digests' is not a flag -
it's implemented internally via separate lists for regular and digest
members.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sean at sweetbourbon.com  Wed Sep  7 19:29:12 2005
From: sean at sweetbourbon.com (Sean)
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 13:29:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MS entourage smart quotes
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0509071322160.60828@seyyav.pair.com>


Hi,

Has anyone using mailman 2.1.x experienced problems with MS smart quotes
not rending correctly in list posts?

I've got a list user using Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.0.2418.  Any
apostrophes show up as a 1 like so:

  "the city that really ruled everything. Kel?s company paid"


Thanks,
Sean


From meyerm-gnu01 at fs.tum.de  Wed Sep  7 20:56:53 2005
From: meyerm-gnu01 at fs.tum.de (Marcel Meyer)
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 20:56:53 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "OverflowError: long int too large to convert to
	int"
Message-ID: <200509072056.59731.meyerm-gnu01@fs.tum.de>

Hello list,

I wasn't able to find any workable solution for the following problem.
BTW: the gnu.org guys seem to have a similar problem. Just have a look
at the archives of the "mailman" list.

Some lists are no longer (worked before - no configuration or software
update occured) delivered. All messages are shunted. The errorlog says
the following:

****************************************
[...]
OverflowError: long int too large to convert to int

Sep 07 17:29:51 2005 (26676) SHUNTING: 1126101607.0405271+753bd030bc66483e3e04217efb7ca1ed6d944a92
Sep 07 20:00:08 2005 (26676) Uncaught runner exception: long int too large to convert to int
Sep 07 20:00:08 2005 (26676) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 91, in process
    send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132, in send_digests
    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 306, in send_i18n_digests
    msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 170, in process
    dir = calculate_attachments_dir(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 131, in calculate_attachments_dir
    datedir = safe_strftime(fmt, now)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 115, in safe_strftime
    return time.strftime(fmt, floatsecs)
OverflowError: long int too large to convert to int

Sep 07 20:00:08 2005 (26676) SHUNTING: 1126116005.4532559+6adb036804dde89bc6ccf0e0d805165055f34e49
[...]
****************************************

We're using python-2.3.5 and mailman-2.1.5-r4 (the r4 comes from the gentoo ebuild).

Thank you very much for every reaction (and be it a RTFM with URL!).

Marcel


-- 
Marcel Meyer
| Netzwerk- und Rechnerorganisation
| Fachschaft Mathematik/Physik/Informatik
| Technische Universit?t M?nchen
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From trevor.cullingsworth at pleasant.net  Wed Sep  7 23:00:52 2005
From: trevor.cullingsworth at pleasant.net (Trevor Cullingsworth)
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 14:00:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hiding footer message?
Message-ID: <431F5504.4040904@pleasant.net>

Hi all,

I am running mailman 2.1.4 on a SUSE linux Enterprsie 9.0 server and I 
can;t find any option to hide the footer message that is on each mailing 
list message.  It looks like by default the footer is the list name, the 
list address, and the URL.

Is there a way to hide this? 

I do not want any info showing up in the footer.  I saw there was an 
option to make a custom footer for digest messages and this overrides 
the default.  Does this option cover normal messages?  I am not creating 
any digests.

Thank you.

Trevor Cullingsworth




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Sep  7 23:14:32 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 23:14:32 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hiding footer message?
In-Reply-To: <431F5504.4040904@pleasant.net>
References: <431F5504.4040904@pleasant.net>
Message-ID: <p062007a5bf450877c2b4@[10.0.1.210]>

At 2:00 PM -0700 2005-09-07, Trevor Cullingsworth wrote:

>  I am running mailman 2.1.4 on a SUSE linux Enterprsie 9.0 server and I
>  can;t find any option to hide the footer message that is on each mailing
>  list message.  It looks like by default the footer is the list name, the
>  list address, and the URL.
>
>  Is there a way to hide this?

	Go to the web admin page for the list.  Go to the section where 
it allows you to customize the footer.  Select all the text in that 
box, then hit the "Delete" or "Backspace" key.  Click on the button 
at the bottom of the page that says "Save Your Changes" (or whatever).

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From trevor.cullingsworth at pleasant.net  Wed Sep  7 23:25:16 2005
From: trevor.cullingsworth at pleasant.net (Trevor Cullingsworth)
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 14:25:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hiding footer message?
In-Reply-To: <p062007a5bf450877c2b4@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <431F5504.4040904@pleasant.net>
	<p062007a5bf450877c2b4@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <431F5ABC.8090105@pleasant.net>

Thanks Dan and Brad!

Time to go get my eyes checked.  I completely overlooked that option 
setting.

I should have paid attention to what I was reading. hehe.  Sorry about that.

Thanks again.

Trevor Cullingsworth



Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 2:00 PM -0700 2005-09-07, Trevor Cullingsworth wrote:
>
>>  I am running mailman 2.1.4 on a SUSE linux Enterprsie 9.0 server and I
>>  can;t find any option to hide the footer message that is on each 
>> mailing
>>  list message.  It looks like by default the footer is the list name, 
>> the
>>  list address, and the URL.
>>
>>  Is there a way to hide this?
>
>
>     Go to the web admin page for the list.  Go to the section where it 
> allows you to customize the footer.  Select all the text in that box, 
> then hit the "Delete" or "Backspace" key.  Click on the button at the 
> bottom of the page that says "Save Your Changes" (or whatever).
>


From osorio.hugo at gmail.com  Thu Sep  8 00:57:01 2005
From: osorio.hugo at gmail.com (Hugo Osorio)
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 17:57:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unknown user
Message-ID: <680ac84705090715576c7809f0@mail.gmail.com>

Hello community
 could you help me with this, i have created a list in mailman web 
interface, but i send a message to the list, and is not delivered, it is 
returning to me "unknown user"
what is the step after being created the list? thank you very much.


From rick.cogley at esolia.co.jp  Thu Sep  8 01:02:50 2005
From: rick.cogley at esolia.co.jp (Cogley, Rick)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 08:02:50 +0900 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unknown user
Message-ID: <543763AA321E2747B17E70E6DE14760B21E33F@shikibu.esolia.co.jp>

I'm a beginner with Mailman, so I could be wrong, but I was getting this
sort of error until I confirmed my aliases were being created correctly. 
I changed MTAs to Postfix and followed the directions in the Mailman manual
or readme, to make the aliases autocreate when you create a list via the
web. 

Hope this serves as a hint.

Regards,
Rick Cogley
Tokyo, Japan

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+rick.cogley=esolia.co.jp at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+rick.cogley=esolia.co.jp at python.org] On Behalf
Of Hugo Osorio
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:57 AM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unknown user

Hello community
 could you help me with this, i have created a list in mailman web
interface, but i send a message to the list, and is not delivered, it is
returning to me "unknown user"
what is the step after being created the list? thank you very much.
------------------------------------------------------


From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Thu Sep  8 01:45:22 2005
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 08:45:22 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "OverflowError: long int too large to convert
 to int"
In-Reply-To: <200509072056.59731.meyerm-gnu01@fs.tum.de>
References: <200509072056.59731.meyerm-gnu01@fs.tum.de>
Message-ID: <431F7B92.1040606@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Marcel Meyer wrote:

> Some lists are no longer (worked before - no configuration or software
> update occured) delivered. All messages are shunted. The errorlog says
> the following:
> 
> ****************************************
> [...]
> OverflowError: long int too large to convert to int
> 

>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 131, in calculate_attachments_dir
>     datedir = safe_strftime(fmt, now)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 115, in safe_strftime
>     return time.strftime(fmt, floatsecs)
> OverflowError: long int too large to convert to int

Looks like we need this patch:

Index: Scrubber.py
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py,v
retrieving revision 2.27
diff -u -r2.27 Scrubber.py
--- Scrubber.py 28 Aug 2005 05:31:27 -0000      2.27
+++ Scrubber.py 7 Sep 2005 23:40:33 -0000
@@ -113,7 +113,7 @@
 def safe_strftime(fmt, floatsecs):
     try:
         return time.strftime(fmt, floatsecs)
-    except (TypeError, ValueError):
+    except (TypeError, ValueError, OverflowError):
         return None


---------------------------------------------------------


-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/



From nospam001-lists at jankoh.dyndns.org  Thu Sep  8 02:16:31 2005
From: nospam001-lists at jankoh.dyndns.org (Jan Kohnert)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 02:16:31 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and utf8
Message-ID: <200509080216.35573.nospam001-lists@jankoh.dyndns.org>

Hello guys,

sorry if I missed something in the docs...

I recently changed my system to use utf8 encoding and get now strange signs in 
the maillinglist archives for non US-ASCII letters linke ?,?,?,? and so on.

Is there a parameter to tell pipermail to use utf8 encoding for the web 
archive? Or at least the encoding of the mail itself (although this would 
obviously be more difficult to do...)?

TIA,
Best regards Jan

-- 
OpenPGP Public-Key Fingerprint:
0E9B 4052 C661 5018 93C3 4E46 651A 7A28 4028 FF7A
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From zzizzle at zzizzle.com  Thu Sep  8 02:03:49 2005
From: zzizzle at zzizzle.com (zzizzle at zzizzle.com)
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 17:03:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topics Help.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.269.1126137213.508.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.269.1126137213.508.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <A9BC44D6-B316-4C1D-AEBA-640828A3BF20@zzizzle.com>

If anyone has used TOPICS successfully and cleverly, please let me  
know.  I'd appreciate examples! I tried setting it up and I don't  
understand how it works.  You can enter the topic name, but I don't  
see how you allow users to subscribe to different topics.

Any help the community can give will be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Jonathan
http://www.mships.com
check it out!


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Sep  8 02:28:43 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 17:28:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "OverflowError: long int too large to convertto
	int"
In-Reply-To: <431F7B92.1040606@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509071728430828103f11c7@msapiro>

Tokio Kikuchi wrote:

>Marcel Meyer wrote:
>
>> Some lists are no longer (worked before - no configuration or software
>> update occured) delivered. All messages are shunted. The errorlog says
>> the following:
>> 
>> ****************************************
>> [...]
>> OverflowError: long int too large to convert to int
>> 
>
>>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 131, in calculate_attachments_dir
>>     datedir = safe_strftime(fmt, now)
>>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 115, in safe_strftime
>>     return time.strftime(fmt, floatsecs)
>> OverflowError: long int too large to convert to int
>
>Looks like we need this patch:
>
>Index: Scrubber.py
>===================================================================
>RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py,v
>retrieving revision 2.27
>diff -u -r2.27 Scrubber.py
>--- Scrubber.py 28 Aug 2005 05:31:27 -0000      2.27
>+++ Scrubber.py 7 Sep 2005 23:40:33 -0000
>@@ -113,7 +113,7 @@
> def safe_strftime(fmt, floatsecs):
>     try:
>         return time.strftime(fmt, floatsecs)
>-    except (TypeError, ValueError):
>+    except (TypeError, ValueError, OverflowError):
>         return None
>

As Tokio says, I think the patch will fix this, but I think the
underlying cause may be a message in the lists/<listname>/digest.mbox
file with a bad date or date format in it's Date: header.

Editing this or moving the digest.mbox aside may allow the list to
resume processing and then 'bin/unshunt' will reprocess the shunted
messages.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Sep  8 02:30:16 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 02:30:16 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Processing Problems
In-Reply-To: <200509011535.j81FZjXb016494@Dual400.rubinsoftware.com>
References: <200509011535.j81FZjXb016494@Dual400.rubinsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <p062007afbf4535654a5e@[10.0.1.210]>

At 11:35 AM -0400 2005-09-01, Paul Rubin wrote:

>    Since about 12/2004 The bounce processor consumes most of the memory in
>  the system and sometimes all of the CPU.

	One thing was just brought to my attention -- you didn't mention 
in this post whether or not you were looking for help from 
consultants.

	Unfortunately, I don't have the free time to do that right now, 
and I know that the Python hosting lists at 
<http://wiki.python.org/moin/SpecializedCommercialHosts> and 
<http://wiki.python.org/moin/OtherCommercialHosts> may not seem that 
obvious to you, but you might want to check there for companies that 
might do both hosting and consulting.  I looked through the lists and 
didn't see anything obvious, but you never know what they might be 
willing to do for you unless you check them out.

	The Python Business Forum (see 
<http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonBusinessForumOpenSpace>) might 
also be useful to you, and they might have lists of consultants that 
they've worked with in the past, etc....


	Alternatively, I think there might very well be a few people on 
this list who may be able to provide additional assistance as a 
consultant, but you'd probably need to indicate an interest to them 
before you'd be likely to find out whether or not they would be 
willing/interested to do that.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From mamandel at ldc.upenn.edu  Thu Sep  8 02:57:22 2005
From: mamandel at ldc.upenn.edu (Mark A. Mandel)
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 20:57:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] finding the options and so on
In-Reply-To: <mailman.270.1126137213.508.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.270.1126137213.508.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <20050907205122.K23007@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>

I've noticed that a fair number of the questions and answers on this list 
follow the pattern

	Q: How do I do X?
	A: Look in ....
	Q: Aha! Thanks, I didn't know it was there.

And as an owner of a number of lists, though not a sysadmin, I've fairly 
often had the experience of "Now, where the heck was that feature the last 
time I used it? ... Not there... it's not there either... OK, let's go 
through the option pages one by one. ... ... ... Oh, THERE you are, you 
little devil!"

One way to solve this problem would be an index. Another would be a wiki.

What do other listmembers think?
 
-- Mark A. Mandel
   Linguistic Data Consortium, University of Pennsylvania
 


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Sep  8 04:01:48 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 19:01:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and utf8
In-Reply-To: <200509080216.35573.nospam001-lists@jankoh.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509071901480734eea8060e@msapiro>

Jan Kohnert wrote:
>
>Is there a parameter to tell pipermail to use utf8 encoding for the web
>archive? Or at least the encoding of the mail itself (although this would
>obviously be more difficult to do...)?

There is an LC_DESCRIPTIONS dictionary that has an entry for each
Mailman supported language giving the language name and character set.
Look at the end of Defaults.py.

You can put something like


def _(s):
    return s
add_language('en',    _('English (USA)'),       'utf-8')
del _

in mm_cfg.py. The above would change the character set for US English
from the default us-ascii to utf-8. Note that since you are in this
example giving new values to LC_DESCRIPTIONS[en], this overrides the
entry in Defaults.py.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Sep  8 04:57:12 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 19:57:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Topics Help.
In-Reply-To: <A9BC44D6-B316-4C1D-AEBA-640828A3BF20@zzizzle.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509071957120656eea8059c@msapiro>

zzizzle at zzizzle.com (Jonathan) wrote:

>If anyone has used TOPICS successfully and cleverly, please let me  
>know.  I'd appreciate examples! I tried setting it up and I don't  
>understand how it works.  You can enter the topic name, but I don't  
>see how you allow users to subscribe to different topics.

I don't use topics, cleverly or otherwise, so I can't help with
examples, but maybe I can help with how it works.

The administrator of a list defines topics and gives them names. Then,
a list member's options page lists the defined topics and gives the
member the option of selecting which topics to receive. Then the
member who elects to receive posts matching certain topics will
receive all posts that match any of the selected topics. The member
will not receive any posts from the list that match one or more topics
but not any selected topics, and the member has the additional option
of whether or not to receive posts that match no topics at all.
Members who don't select topics continue to receive all posts. All of
this applies only to regular (non-digest) members. Topics do not apply
to digests.

In short, you allow list members to subscribe to different topics
simply by defining topics for that list.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From wash at wananchi.com  Thu Sep  8 09:08:44 2005
From: wash at wananchi.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 10:08:44 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrading Mailman (2.1.3 -> 2.1.6)
Message-ID: <20050908070844.GE72812@ns2.wananchi.com>

I know this has been discussed/documented, but I just can't find the
actual link detailing the steps.

Can someone point me to it? I have a production setup which I must not
screw up with during the upgrade ;)


        cheers
       - wash 
+----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
Odhiambo Washington            		. WANANCHI ONLINE LTD (Nairobi, KE)  |
wash () WANANCHI ! com			. 1ere Etage, Loita Hse, Loita St.,  |
GSM: (+254) 722 743 223			. # 10286, 00100 NAIROBI             |
GSM: (+254) 733 744 121			. (+254) 020 313 985 - 9             |
+---------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!"  
						 --from a /. post


From wash at wananchi.com  Thu Sep  8 11:06:13 2005
From: wash at wananchi.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 12:06:13 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrading Mailman (2.1.3 -> 2.1.6) - Q2
In-Reply-To: <p06002008bd465338e9c6@[10.0.1.2]>
References: <20040816110330.GP27086@rz-ap-mauz.fh-konstanz.de>
	<p06002008bd465338e9c6@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <20050908090613.GF72812@ns2.wananchi.com>

I have 2.1.3 running! And reading what Barry did here:

http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers at python.org/msg03127.html

It would appear that I can simply install over my /path/to/mailman and
it wouldn't break much, no? ;)


        cheers
       - wash 
+----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
Odhiambo Washington            		. WANANCHI ONLINE LTD (Nairobi, KE)  |
wash () WANANCHI ! com			. 1ere Etage, Loita Hse, Loita St.,  |
GSM: (+254) 722 743 223			. # 10286, 00100 NAIROBI             |
GSM: (+254) 733 744 121			. (+254) 020 313 985 - 9             |
+---------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!"  
						 --from a /. post


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Sep  8 12:49:21 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 12:49:21 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] finding the options and so on
In-Reply-To: <20050907205122.K23007@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
References: <mailman.270.1126137213.508.mailman-users@python.org>
	<20050907205122.K23007@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <p062007b0bf45c6d66126@[10.0.1.210]>

At 8:57 PM -0400 2005-09-07, Mark A. Mandel wrote:

>  One way to solve this problem would be an index. Another would be a wiki.

	That's a good idea -- An option index, implemented withing 
Mailman, for each and every list.

	We do have the Mailman FAQ Wizard (see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py>), which works much like 
many wikis, but that is obviously not enough.  Nor is the other 
online documentation linked under <http://www.list.org/docs.html>. 
Sigh....

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From mlst at winc.net  Thu Sep  8 13:45:32 2005
From: mlst at winc.net (Sergio P. Cesar)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 06:45:32 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pending confirmations
Message-ID: <3667.192.168.2.22.1126179932.squirrel@webmail.winc.net>

How do I list the addresses pending confirmation after a mass invitation?


Sergio


From nospam001-lists at jankoh.dyndns.org  Thu Sep  8 15:29:49 2005
From: nospam001-lists at jankoh.dyndns.org (Jan Kohnert)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 15:29:49 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and utf8
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200509071901480734eea8060e@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200509071901480734eea8060e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200509081529.53215.nospam001-lists@jankoh.dyndns.org>

Mark Sapiro schrieb:
> Jan Kohnert wrote:
> >Is there a parameter to tell pipermail to use utf8 encoding for the web
> >archive? Or at least the encoding of the mail itself (although this would
> >obviously be more difficult to do...)?
>
> There is an LC_DESCRIPTIONS dictionary that has an entry for each
> Mailman supported language giving the language name and character set.
> Look at the end of Defaults.py.
>
> You can put something like
>
>
> def _(s):
>     return s
> add_language('en',    _('English (USA)'),       'utf-8')
> del _

So I added the lines:
def _(s):
    return s
add_language('de',    _('German'),       'iso-8859-15')
                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^
                                          if I set utf-8 here, I get
                                          horrible font problems, must
                                          figure out, why...
del _

and also:
DEFAULT_CHARSET = 'utf-8'

to mm_cfg.py

but that didn't do the trick.

In the html-pages of the archive there is still the html-meta tag:
<META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">

and so the content is not displayed correctly...

Best regards Jan

-- 
OpenPGP Public-Key Fingerprint:
0E9B 4052 C661 5018 93C3 4E46 651A 7A28 4028 FF7A
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From dpifer at odu.edu  Thu Sep  8 15:43:25 2005
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 09:43:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Complaints about MM 2.1.6b4
In-Reply-To: <p0620077fbf4356e72478@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <1126015731.32089.23.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
	<p0620077fbf4356e72478@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <1126187005.32089.218.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

Thanks for the info. I will pass this onto the list admin.

On Tue, 2005-09-06 at 10:29, Brad Knowles wrote:

> >  The newest problem is:  Because Classroom is a shared email account, it
> >  shows the "real sender" - who is a member of the list with a check-mark
> >  in the MOD box, so it holds the email and waits for administrator
> >  approval.
> 
> 	Make sure that your MUA properly uses the desired sender address 
> as both the envelope sender and in the header "From:" and "Sender:" 
> fields.
> 
> 	Or, go into your mm_cfg.py file and change what fields you look 
> at for determining list membership.  If you don't have explicit 
> settings for this, see the examples from Defaults.py, then copy them 
> over to mm_cfg.py and change as necessary for your installation.

These are settings for envelope sender from Defaults.py which is looking
like it is doing the right thing.

# The envelope sender is set by the SMTP delivery and is thus less
easily
# spoofed than the sender, which is typically just taken from the From:
header
# and thus easily spoofed by the end-user.  However, sometimes the
envelope
# sender isn't set correctly and this will manifest itself by postings
being
# held for approval even if they appear to come from a list member.  If
you
# are having this problem, set this variable to No, but understand that
some
# spoofed messages may get through.
USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = No

How can we confirm that the MUA is doing the right thing? Would this be
one of the mailers sendmail would be using, like mlocal?

Darren
Old Dominion University




From nospam001-lists at jankoh.dyndns.org  Thu Sep  8 17:13:58 2005
From: nospam001-lists at jankoh.dyndns.org (Jan Kohnert)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 17:13:58 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and utf8
In-Reply-To: <31D8A603-853E-4226-B345-8EE111F94BE1@memphis.edu>
References: <PC1740200509071901480734eea8060e@msapiro>
	<200509081529.53215.nospam001-lists@jankoh.dyndns.org>
	<31D8A603-853E-4226-B345-8EE111F94BE1@memphis.edu>
Message-ID: <200509081714.01902.nospam001-lists@jankoh.dyndns.org>

Dan Phillips schrieb:
> On Sep 8, 2005, at 8:29 AM, Jan Kohnert wrote:
> > In the html-pages of the archive there is still the html-meta tag:
> > <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
> > charset=iso-8859-1">
>
> Did you regenerate the archives? They are static html created at he
> time a message is added, so for a change in character set to appear,
> you must run bin/arch --wipe listname

Many thanks, now it is working.

> Dan

Best regards Jan

-- 
OpenPGP Public-Key Fingerprint:
0E9B 4052 C661 5018 93C3 4E46 651A 7A28 4028 FF7A
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From mamandel at ldc.upenn.edu  Thu Sep  8 17:30:19 2005
From: mamandel at ldc.upenn.edu (Mark A. Mandel)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 11:30:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] finding the options and so on
In-Reply-To: <p062007b0bf45c6d66126@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <mailman.270.1126137213.508.mailman-users@python.org>
	<20050907205122.K23007@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
	<p062007b0bf45c6d66126@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <20050908112755.S99323@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>

On Thu, 8 Sep 2005, Brad Knowles wrote:

#At 8:57 PM -0400 2005-09-07, Mark A. Mandel wrote:
#
#>  One way to solve this problem would be an index. Another would be a wiki.
#
#	That's a good idea -- An option index, implemented withing Mailman, for
#each and every list.

Please don't take offense: is your answer literal or sarcastic? I think you 
mean it as you say it, but I'm not a sysop or programmer, just a listowner, 
so I really can't tell.

#	We do have the Mailman FAQ Wizard (see
#<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py>), which works much like many wikis,
#but that is obviously not enough.  Nor is the other online documentation linked
#under <http://www.list.org/docs.html>. Sigh....
#
#-- 
#Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>


From jaf19 at earthlink.net  Thu Sep  8 17:36:47 2005
From: jaf19 at earthlink.net (jaf19)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 08:36:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reverse Chron Archives ?
Message-ID: <6c9bd37b050908083629c7f6fd@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a way to get the newest items to post on top instead of on the 
bottom of the archive? (Reverse chron).

JF


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Sep  8 17:58:25 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 17:58:25 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] finding the options and so on
In-Reply-To: <20050908112755.S99323@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
References: <mailman.270.1126137213.508.mailman-users@python.org>
	<20050907205122.K23007@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
	<p062007b0bf45c6d66126@[10.0.1.210]>
	<20050908112755.S99323@lorax.ldc.upenn.edu>
Message-ID: <p062007babf460f916d08@[10.0.1.210]>

At 11:30 AM -0400 2005-09-08, Mark A. Mandel wrote:

>  #>  One way to solve this problem would be an index. Another would be a wiki.
>  #
>  #	That's a good idea -- An option index, implemented withing Mailman, for
>  # each and every list.
>
>  Please don't take offense: is your answer literal or sarcastic? I think you
>  mean it as you say it, but I'm not a sysop or programmer, just a listowner,
>  so I really can't tell.

	Sorry, I thought it was pretty obvious that I was being serious.

	I think an option index would be a good idea, and I encourage you 
to create an RFE for this at 
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=350103>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Sep  8 18:00:12 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 18:00:12 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reverse Chron Archives ?
In-Reply-To: <6c9bd37b050908083629c7f6fd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6c9bd37b050908083629c7f6fd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p062007bbbf46102c915a@[10.0.1.210]>

At 8:36 AM -0700 2005-09-08, jaf19 wrote:

>  Is there a way to get the newest items to post on top instead of on the
>  bottom of the archive? (Reverse chron).

	Not so far as I know, but it shouldn't take too much work to 
modify the source code to produce that as an added option.  If you 
can create the patch to do that and upload that to the page at 
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=300103>, that 
would be great!

	Otherwise, you may have to file an RFE at 
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=350103>, and hope 
that someone else gets around to implementing this idea at some point 
in the future.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From gus at clacso.edu.ar  Thu Sep  8 19:42:22 2005
From: gus at clacso.edu.ar (gus)
Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 14:42:22 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Debian Package and exim4.5
In-Reply-To: <6c9bd37b050908083629c7f6fd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6c9bd37b050908083629c7f6fd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <432077FE.6040109@clacso.edu.ar>

Hello

I have debian sarge and mailman and exim 4.5
I put the new files main, transport and router.
I read README.Exim
I created a list mailman and another for example.
But When I send a message to the list ,
the list said me..


Net::SMTP(2.29)
Net::Cmd(2.26)
Exporter(5.58) 
IO::Socket::INET(1.27)
IO::Socket(1.28)
 IO::Handle(1.24)
<<< 220 piluso.clacso.edu.ar ESMTP Exim 4.50 Tue, 06 Sep 2005 15:39:12 
-0300
EHLO clacso.edu.ar
<<< 250-piluso.clacso.edu.ar Hello nobody at webmail.clacso.edu.ar
[168.96.200.250]
<<< 250-SIZE 52428800
<<< 250-PIPELINING
<<< 250 HELP
MAIL FROM:<nehuen at piluso.clacso.edu.ar>
<<< 250 OK
RCPT TO:<salame-request at piluso.clacso.edu.ar>
<<< 550 unknown user

Someone can help me..
thanks
gus



From Mic.Clayton at snowyhydro.com.au  Fri Sep  9 00:05:33 2005
From: Mic.Clayton at snowyhydro.com.au (Clayton Mic)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:05:33 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New User/Administrator of a list
Message-ID: <5BA6B3FB35CF17499BE4407C22EF691B1279CA@snowyhydro.com.au>


I have just taken over the administration/moderation of our Mailman site and appear to be having a problem with our Archives section getting the following message when accessing the Archives.
Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /pipermail/members_aha.net.au/ on this server.
Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
I have been testing moderator tools and releasing moderated messages after I have reviewed them. Members on the list have indicated that they have been receiving these messages, but an Archive does not seem to be in the process of being created.
Can someone lease tell me where to start.
Also is it possible to have more than one list/archive, we are wanting to have a members list (for general infornmation) and a technical list for swapping ideas and technical information. Can someone advise of simple step by step instructions on how these issues can be achieved.
Of course at the end of the day is an issue with my Service provider?!
tHANKS
mIC


Mic Clayton Btech (Env), HydCert
Co Ordinating Hydrographer
Snowy Hydro Limited
PO Box 332
Cooma
NSW  2630
Ph 02 64532474    Fax 02 64532030




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Snowy Hydro collects personal information to provide our services. For more information about use, disclosure and access see our privacy policy at www.snowyhydro.com.au

From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Sep  9 01:25:34 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 01:25:34 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New User/Administrator of a list
In-Reply-To: <5BA6B3FB35CF17499BE4407C22EF691B1279CA@snowyhydro.com.au>
References: <5BA6B3FB35CF17499BE4407C22EF691B1279CA@snowyhydro.com.au>
Message-ID: <p062007c5bf4674dc2add@[10.0.1.210]>

At 8:05 AM +1000 2005-09-09, Clayton Mic wrote:

>  I have just taken over the administration/moderation of our Mailman
>  site and appear to be having a problem with our Archives section
>  getting the following message when accessing the Archives.

	You haven't given us much in the way of detail regarding your 
site.  See the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py>, specifically FAQ 1.23 for 
an idea of the type of information that we might need, if we are 
going to be able to help.  FAQ 1.22 has some useful information on 
the kinds of homework you might want to do, before you get hit with 
the barrage of questions that may be coming your way.

>  Forbidden
>  You don't have permission to access /pipermail/members_aha.net.au/ on
>  this server.

	It looks like a non-standard virtual domain patch may have been 
applied to your system.  Is this system running cPanel?  If so, then 
please see FAQ 6.11.

>  I have been testing moderator tools and releasing moderated messages after
>  I have reviewed them. Members on the list have indicated that they have
>  been receiving these messages, but an Archive does not seem to be in the
>  process of being created.

	This could be for any number of reasons.  It may be that the 
previous admin did not choose to create an archive for the list.  In 
that case, it should just be a simple matter of turning on that 
feature.

>  Also is it possible to have more than one list/archive, we are wanting to
>  have a members list (for general infornmation) and a technical list for
>  swapping ideas and technical information.

	Sure.  Mailman allows you to create pretty much as many lists as 
you want, and you can choose whether or not they should have archives 
associated with them, etc....  The only limits here are how much can 
be handled by your server.

>                                             Can someone advise of simple
>  step by step instructions on how these issues can be achieved.

	Unfortunately, there is relatively little documentation provided 
with Mailman.  Most of the web administration system is intended to 
be self-evident, but then it's also intended to be administered by a 
fairly experienced mail systems administrator, and may be confusing 
to someone who is new to the system.

	What documentation we do have is linked from 
<http://www.list.org/docs.html>, including list administrator 
documentation at <http://www.list.org/admins.html>, and site 
administrator documentation at <http://www.list.org/site.html>.  If 
you want to create new mailing lists, you'll need to have the site 
administrator password, and if you're using a hosted service then 
your service provider may not be willing to give that to you.

	In that case, you'll need to have them create your mailing lists for you.

>  Of course at the end of the day is an issue with my Service provider?!

	It could be.  Generally speaking, all support questions you may 
have regarding products or services they provide should be first 
directed to them.  They may have installed additional software that 
we don't know about, they may have enabled or disabled particular 
features by default, etc....  Only they would know for sure.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep  9 03:22:46 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 18:22:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrading Mailman (2.1.3 -> 2.1.6) - Q2
In-Reply-To: <20050908090613.GF72812@ns2.wananchi.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509081822460234c95bf8f8@msapiro>

Odhiambo Washington wrote:

>I have 2.1.3 running! And reading what Barry did here:
>
>http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers at python.org/msg03127.html
>
>It would appear that I can simply install over my /path/to/mailman and
>it wouldn't break much, no? ;)

After you download and unpack the 2.1.6 distribution, read the
UPGRADING document. The sections that apply in particilar to a
2.1.3->2.1.6 upgrade are "UPGRADING FROM PREVIOUS VERSIONS" and
"UPGRADING FROM 2.1.4 to 2.1.5". The remainder of the document doesn't
really apply to you.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep  9 03:40:54 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 18:40:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Debian Package and exim4.5
In-Reply-To: <432077FE.6040109@clacso.edu.ar>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509081840540265c95bf91f@msapiro>

gus wrote:
>
>I have debian sarge and mailman and exim 4.5
>I put the new files main, transport and router.
>I read README.Exim

I can't help with your specific problem and I don't know what's in
README.Exim (maybe it's a Debian document), but you might find
http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node16.html and
http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html to be helpful.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From shillong at gmail.com  Fri Sep  9 09:40:11 2005
From: shillong at gmail.com (Shillong Dotcom)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:10:11 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customised template of Mailman archive
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200509081840540265c95bf91f@msapiro>
References: <432077FE.6040109@clacso.edu.ar>
	<PC1740200509081840540265c95bf91f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <23e021a5050909004074feea2a@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
 I use a Mailman list on a vortual server (cPanel) 
 Anyone tell me please if I can costomise the archive templates?
 My office wants a forum type look of the archive.
e.g.(http://www.tulleeho.com/discussion/discusshome.asp)
 Or, shall I use MHonArc instead?? any good archiver, please help..
 Thanks & Regards,
 bg


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Sep  9 11:05:50 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:05:50 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customised template of Mailman archive
In-Reply-To: <23e021a5050909004074feea2a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <432077FE.6040109@clacso.edu.ar>
	<PC1740200509081840540265c95bf91f@msapiro>
	<23e021a5050909004074feea2a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p062007cbbf47002dd1f0@[10.0.1.210]>

At 1:10 PM +0530 2005-09-09, Shillong Dotcom wrote:

>   I use a Mailman list on a vortual server (cPanel)

	Go to the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py>, and real FAQ 6.11.

>   Anyone tell me please if I can costomise the archive templates?

	With cPanel?  Odds are that you can't.  However, if you can, then 
you would need to talk to your hosting provider.

>   My office wants a forum type look of the archive.
>  e.g.(http://www.tulleeho.com/discussion/discusshome.asp)
>   Or, shall I use MHonArc instead?? any good archiver, please help..

	So far as I know, there's no way to achieve that kind of look 
using either the integrated pipermail archiving system in Mailman, or 
using MHonArc as a 3rd-party external archiving system.  There may be 
other 3rd-party external archiving systems that can achieve this kind 
of a look, and there are unsupported patches to include integration 
into real web-board discussion systems (see the FAQ Wizard), but I 
think that doing this is going to be quite a bit more complex than 
you realize.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From greg at ascendnetwork.com  Fri Sep  9 18:36:56 2005
From: greg at ascendnetwork.com (Greg Burnett / Ascend Network)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:36:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie Question - Setting up email
Message-ID: <000701c5b55c$b5024250$967ba8c0@ascendnetwork>

I just installed Mailman on my X86 PC - Debian Linux OS  - Apache works
but I cant figure out how to set up the actual mail settings. I have
sendmail. I have my own domain and mail server but it is located on a
commercial account outside my machine.  My email address would be
list at ascendnetwork.com  and along with my domain is at dnsbuy.com.  Do I
need to set up a mail account on my local machine and if so, how do I do
this? If I can use my outside email address as the post to address, how
do I set it up in mailman and in sendmail? Thanks for the help.
 
Greg Burnett


From scotcondry at hotmail.com  Fri Sep  9 19:26:12 2005
From: scotcondry at hotmail.com (scot condry)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:26:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMAIL
Message-ID: <BAY102-F17EA94332079DCD24561ACC9980@phx.gbl>

Sorry if this is a repeat I havent been able to find a definitive answer on 
this through Google so I just joined this list.  Does Mailman have issues 
with GMAIL?  I am hosting two lists and when I send an email to the list 
from GMAIL it makes it to the archives on the list's web interface but never 
mails out to everyone.  Emails from hotmail or other accounts seem to work 
fine.

SC




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Sep  9 19:59:51 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 19:59:51 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] GMAIL
In-Reply-To: <BAY102-F17EA94332079DCD24561ACC9980@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY102-F17EA94332079DCD24561ACC9980@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <p0620070bbf477d917289@[10.0.1.210]>

At 10:26 AM -0700 2005-09-09, scot condry wrote:

>  Sorry if this is a repeat I havent been able to find a definitive answer on
>  this through Google so I just joined this list.  Does Mailman have issues
>  with GMAIL?

	Not per se, no.  But Gmail is large enough that when they have 
problems, they will frequently cause problems for everyone else who 
tries to send them mail.

	Other than that, try going to the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> and search for "gmail". 
Also, please see FAQ 1.22.

>               I am hosting two lists and when I send an email to the list
>  from GMAIL it makes it to the archives on the list's web interface but never
>  mails out to everyone.  Emails from hotmail or other accounts seem to work
>  fine.

	Ahh, this is a different type of problem.

	No, I haven't heard anything like this being reported.  Can you 
give us more details?  In addition, please see FAQ 1.23.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From carbonnb at gmail.com  Fri Sep  9 20:11:07 2005
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:11:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd:  GMAIL
In-Reply-To: <e04a6c9205090911004b943c00@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BAY102-F17EA94332079DCD24561ACC9980@phx.gbl>
	<e04a6c9205090911004b943c00@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e04a6c9205090911114a2873ca@mail.gmail.com>

Whoops, should have sentthis to the list as well.
Bryan

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Bryan Carbonnell <carbonnb at gmail.com>
Date: 09-Sep-2005 14:00
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] GMAIL
To: scot condry <scotcondry at hotmail.com>


On 09/09/05, scot condry <scotcondry at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry if this is a repeat I havent been able to find a definitive answer on
> this through Google so I just joined this list.  Does Mailman have issues
> with GMAIL?  I am hosting two lists and when I send an email to the list
> from GMAIL it makes it to the archives on the list's web interface but never
> mails out to everyone.  Emails from hotmail or other accounts seem to work
> fine.

I run about 20 list with mailman and use my GMAIL account all the time
with them. I can send to the lists and receive from the lists with my
GMail account.

This is coming from my GMail account too.

What you might be seeing is Google doesn't show you the incoming
e-mail that you send from GMail to the mailman list, but it is going
out to the rest.

I *won't* see this e-mail coming back from the list in my GMail, but I
*will* see it with my home e-mail address.

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"


-- 
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"


From dpifer at odu.edu  Fri Sep  9 21:44:27 2005
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 15:44:27 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Complaints about MM 2.1.6b4
In-Reply-To: <p0620077fbf4356e72478@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <1126015731.32089.23.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
	<p0620077fbf4356e72478@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <1126295066.7722.11.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

Hello Brad,

      I don't want you to get in the middle of something between the
list administrator and myself, however, I just want this issue to be
clear. The list admin still has problems with the way the new mailman
handles mail she sends to her list and gets held for a list admins
approval. Her response to your answer is below highlighted by *****
characters. Just so that I understand this correctly, I believe she is
saying is that if she is a member of her own list, she still has to
approve the message before it goes out. If she was not a member of list
and was in the non-member list of addresses for her list, then the mail
would go out without approval. I don't know this affects MM processing,
if the member address member name has the mod flag set, and she sends
to her list, will it still be held for approval?

On Tue, 2005-09-06 at 10:29, Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 10:08 AM -0400 2005-09-06, Darren G Pifer wrote:
> 
> >  The old system had a box to enter addresses for all people who can post
> >  to the list without administrator approval.  We were able to "copy and
> >  paste" the same list into each list serve. The "box" does not exist in
> >  the new system.
> 
> 	Yes, it does.  Go to the web admin interface for your list.  Go 
> to the "Privacy options..." section.  From there, go down to the 
> "Sender filters" sub-page.  The second box down from the top will 
> have the description "List of non-member addresses whose postings 
> should be automatically accepted."  That's what you want.

***** - the operative words in this case are NON-MEMBER ADDRESSES.
If you want to be a MEMBER so you can receive emails, you cannot be a
NON-MEMBER in this box.  The MEMBER options override the entry in the
NON-MEMBER box.  We tried adding me as a non-member and it still
did not work.  I am a MEMBER in each listserve. *****

Darren



From tom at detroitonline.com  Fri Sep  9 22:41:27 2005
From: tom at detroitonline.com (Tom Ray)
Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 16:41:27 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Small question
Message-ID: <4321F377.4090402@detroitonline.com>

I set up a Mailman list for someone, and the address was 
list at lists.domain.com but they only use this domain so now they just 
want list at domain.com I've made some changes to mm_cfg.py in my virtual 
hosts line, modified the settings in Exim, and I try sending to 
test at domain.com which is a test list I have, I'm not getting bounce 
backs but I'm also not getting mail. Am I missing some other files I 
might have to make changes in?

TIA

-- 

Tom Ray





From nospam001-lists at jankoh.dyndns.org  Fri Sep  9 23:08:56 2005
From: nospam001-lists at jankoh.dyndns.org (Jan Kohnert)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 23:08:56 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Small question
In-Reply-To: <4321F377.4090402@detroitonline.com>
References: <4321F377.4090402@detroitonline.com>
Message-ID: <200509092308.56860.nospam001-lists@jankoh.dyndns.org>

Tom Ray schrieb:
> I set up a Mailman list for someone, and the address was
> list at lists.domain.com but they only use this domain so now they just
> want list at domain.com I've made some changes to mm_cfg.py in my virtual
> hosts line, modified the settings in Exim, and I try sending to
> test at domain.com which is a test list I have, I'm not getting bounce
> backs but I'm also not getting mail. Am I missing some other files I
> might have to make changes in?

Why not looking in your mailman and Exim logfiles?

You could also post them here.

But if you don't give more information, I'm sure nobody can help you...

> TIA

Best regards Jan

-- 
OpenPGP Public-Key Fingerprint:
0E9B 4052 C661 5018 93C3 4E46 651A 7A28 4028 FF7A
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From nospam001-lists at jankoh.dyndns.org  Fri Sep  9 23:16:32 2005
From: nospam001-lists at jankoh.dyndns.org (Jan Kohnert)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 23:16:32 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie Question - Setting up email
In-Reply-To: <000701c5b55c$b5024250$967ba8c0@ascendnetwork>
References: <000701c5b55c$b5024250$967ba8c0@ascendnetwork>
Message-ID: <200509092316.33193.nospam001-lists@jankoh.dyndns.org>

Greg Burnett / Ascend Network schrieb:
> I just installed Mailman on my X86 PC - Debian Linux OS  - Apache works
> but I cant figure out how to set up the actual mail settings. I have
> sendmail. 

You have sendmail on your maschine running mailman? If it is not configured 
and running, I would leave it as it is...

> I have my own domain and mail server but it is located on a 
> commercial account outside my machine.  My email address would be
> list at ascendnetwork.com  and along with my domain is at dnsbuy.com.  

I'm bit of confused. the lists domain should be ascendnetwork.com but what is 
dnsbuy.com? The Domain on which your mailserver is hosted? Your own local 
domain? And if so why setting the lists domain to ascendnetwork.com?

> Do I need to set up a mail account on my local machine and if so,
> how do I do this? 

You don't.

> If I can use my outside email address as the post to address, how 
> do I set it up in mailman and in sendmail? 

For mailman you might want to have a look at the parameter 
"DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST" in Mailman/Default.py and set it correctly in 
Mailman/mm_cfg.py. As said before, I would leave sendmail as it is...

> Thanks for the help. 

HTH,

> Greg Burnett

Best regards Jan

-- 
OpenPGP Public-Key Fingerprint:
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From msapiro at value.net  Sat Sep 10 00:38:14 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:38:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Complaints about MM 2.1.6b4
In-Reply-To: <1126295066.7722.11.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402005090915381400932cf619ab@msapiro>

Darren G Pifer 
>I believe she is
>saying is that if she is a member of her own list, she still has to
>approve the message before it goes out. If she was not a member of list
>and was in the non-member list of addresses for her list, then the mail
>would go out without approval. I don't know this affects MM processing,
>if the member address member name has the mod flag set, and she sends
>to her list, will it still be held for approval?


Yes, and that appears to be the issue here. If she is a moderated
member, her posts are supposed to be held for approval (or otherwise
disposed of according to member_moderation_action). That's what
moderated means. It makes no difference whether she is a list owner or
moderator herself.

If she is moderated, the only way she can post without the post being
held is to include an

Approved: <list_administrator_password>

line in her post either as a header or as an initial body line. If
included in the body, it is best to make it the first line and follow
it with a blank line as at least some Mailman versions will remove the
line following when removing the Approved: line from the post.

Also, she is correct that in Mailman 2.1.x there is no list per se of
members who are allowed to post without moderation. You have to turn
off moderation individually for those members who you want to post
without moderation.

It would be simple for someone who knows Mailman and Python to create a
withlist script that would turn off moderation for a list of members,
but as far as I know there isn't one currently available.

In another post in this thread Darren wrote:

>On Tue, 2005-09-06 at 10:29, Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>> >  The newest problem is:  Because Classroom is a shared email account, it
>> >  shows the "real sender" - who is a member of the list with a check-mark
>> >  in the MOD box, so it holds the email and waits for administrator
>> >  approval.
>> 
>> 	Make sure that your MUA properly uses the desired sender address 
>> as both the envelope sender and in the header "From:" and "Sender:" 
>> fields.
>> 
>> 	Or, go into your mm_cfg.py file and change what fields you look 
>> at for determining list membership.  If you don't have explicit 
>> settings for this, see the examples from Defaults.py, then copy them 
>> over to mm_cfg.py and change as necessary for your installation.
>
>These are settings for envelope sender from Defaults.py which is looking
>like it is doing the right thing.


The setting in Defaults.py is 'USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = No' which says use
the headers as specified in SENDER_HEADERS.


>
>How can we confirm that the MUA is doing the right thing? Would this be
>one of the mailers sendmail would be using, like mlocal?

The MUA is the 'user agent' (also called e-mail client) that the user
uses to compose and send the mail. This is normally what sets fields
such as From: and envelope sender in a mail message. If users want to
post using the "classroom" address, they may need to set up a separate
'account' in their MUA to post from. You can verify what is being done
by having them send to you and examining the full headers of the
message you receive. Note that there should be a Return-Path: header
indicating the envelope sender.

But note, It will be only a very short time before students figure out
how to post from 'classroom'. That's why this method is not
recommended as a secure posting method on a one-way or few-to-many
type of list. The secure way to do this is by moderating everyone and
giving authorized posters the list password so they can post with an
Approved: header. See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.034.htp

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From greg at ascendnetwork.com  Fri Sep  9 21:02:17 2005
From: greg at ascendnetwork.com (greg at ascendnetwork.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 19:02:17 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie Question - Setting up email
Message-ID: <200509091902.17259.greg@ascendnetwork.com>

dnbuy.net is the site where I registered my domain. I use their URL forwarding 
to my roadrunner acct for my website. I also have a pop3 acct set up through 
dnbuy for my domain. When someone sends an email to my domain, it goes to 
their dns server and is then processed through their pop3 server. I have my 
mail program setup to check mail via pop3 into my inbox. I have created an 
email address for the list mailman at ascendnetwork.com. When someone send a 
post to that address it just sits there in the inbox on my pop3 server at 
dnbuy. How do I configure mailman and exim (thought it was sendmail before 
but it is exim4) to get posts from that acct and send them to everyone on my 
list? I hope that clarifies the question. I guess I know nothing about 
aliases. I am new to this. I set the default host in mailman to 
ascendnetwork.com. I subscribed to the list and the welcome email I get shows 
mailman at ascendnetwork.com as the post to address but when I send a message to 
the address it doesn't come back to me through the list. Again, I dont know 
how to set it up to get posts from my pop3 account and send them to the list 
members. Thanks for the help.

Greg Burnett


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Sep 10 01:24:22 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 01:24:22 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie Question - Setting up email
In-Reply-To: <200509091902.17259.greg@ascendnetwork.com>
References: <200509091902.17259.greg@ascendnetwork.com>
Message-ID: <p06200704bf47c9056b60@[10.0.1.210]>

At 7:02 PM +0000 2005-09-09, greg at ascendnetwork.com wrote:

>          How do I configure mailman and exim (thought it was sendmail before
>  but it is exim4) to get posts from that acct and send them to everyone on my
>  list?

	You don't.  That's not the way these kinds of programs work.

	If you want to run Mailman on your local machine, then you need 
to configure things in some way so that they are delivered direct to 
that system from the outside world, or perhaps through a mail 
forwarding service at your provider.  Alternatively, pay a hosting 
company to run Mailman for you -- see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.017.htp>.


	If you knew what you were doing, there are other programs you 
could set up that would log into your POP3 account, download your 
mail for you, then distribute that to the system as if it had been 
sent in directly from the outside world, and then you could use a 
POP3 client to log into the local server to pick up your mail -- the 
system would deliver other stuff to Mailman, as appropriate.

	But it seems to me like you're unlikely to have the necessary 
knowledge and skills to properly set up a program like "fetchmail" or 
"getmail" to do this kind of thing.  If you do want to go this route, 
then you will need to find assistance elsewhere in terms of how to 
set up programs like fetchmail or getmail, since they are not 
included as part of our package.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Sep 10 05:29:50 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 20:29:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Small question
In-Reply-To: <4321F377.4090402@detroitonline.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509092029500770d79883b4@msapiro>

Tom Ray wrote:

>I set up a Mailman list for someone, and the address was 
>list at lists.domain.com but they only use this domain so now they just 
>want list at domain.com I've made some changes to mm_cfg.py in my virtual 
>hosts line, modified the settings in Exim, and I try sending to 
>test at domain.com which is a test list I have, I'm not getting bounce 
>backs but I'm also not getting mail. Am I missing some other files I 
>might have to make changes in?


See the section in
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp
about "Existing versus new lists".

Also see
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Sep 10 20:00:10 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:00:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pending confirmations
In-Reply-To: <3667.192.168.2.22.1126179932.squirrel@webmail.winc.net>
Message-ID: <PC174020050910110010064025e71c0a@msapiro>

Sergio P. Cesar wrote:

>How do I list the addresses pending confirmation after a mass invitation?


As far as I know, there is no user friendly way to do this short of
writing your own script, but you can use bin/dumpdb to dump the
lists/<list_name>/pending.pck file. The object in this file is a
dictionary and the pending subscriptions look similar to

'33a421a2eff41ff2d0335843dcac9774bfa82231': (   'S', <UserDesc
user at example.com (Real Name) [paswrd] [digest? no] [en]>)

where the dictionary key '33a421a2eff41ff2d0335843dcac9774bfa82231' is
the confirmation token and 'S' identifies this entry as a pending
subscription.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Sep 11 06:57:33 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 21:57:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mmdsr -- Mailman Daily Status Reports (Bourne
	shellscript, updated)
In-Reply-To: <p0620077dbf4353103e01@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509102157330593c1bdfa92@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>	Just wanted to let you know that I've updated the version of the 
>script attached to the patch at 
><https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1123383&group_id=103&atid=300103>. 
>This is the latest version, and we're currently using this to monitor 
>the mailing lists on python.org.
>
>	Any comments you may have will be appreciated.  Thanks!

I tried it and I'm starting to run it with a daily cron. I added
comments and a patch to the above patch regarding the following:

The script assumes the a single specified directory (normally the
VAR_PREFIX directory) contains the queues in the qfiles/ directory and
the logs in the logs/ directory. This isn't the case in all
installations. I modified it to allow independent specification of the
directory containing the logs.

The script leaves a temp file behind.

See the above URL for my comments and patch.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From meyerm-gnu01 at fs.tum.de  Sun Sep 11 12:32:49 2005
From: meyerm-gnu01 at fs.tum.de (Marcel Meyer)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:32:49 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "OverflowError: long int too large to convertto
	int"
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200509071728430828103f11c7@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200509071728430828103f11c7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200509111232.49666.meyerm-gnu01@fs.tum.de>

Hi,

Am Donnerstag, 8. September 2005 02:28 schrieben Sie:
> Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
> >Marcel Meyer wrote:
> >> Some lists are no longer (worked before - no configuration or software
> >> update occured) delivered. All messages are shunted. The errorlog says
> >> the following:
> >>
> >> [...]
> >> OverflowError: long int too large to convert to int
> >> [...]
> >
> >Looks like we need this patch:
> >
> >Index: Scrubber.py
> >[...]
>
> As Tokio says, I think the patch will fix this, but I think the
> underlying cause may be a message in the lists/<listname>/digest.mbox
> file with a bad date or date format in it's Date: header.
> [...]

Thank you both for your answers.

@Tokio: Will this patch be included into newer mailman versions? 
Nonetheless, I will change the Scrubber.py file for now by hand. Thanks!

@Mark: We deactivated the digest to get the list running again. I will have 
a closer look at the mbox next time the error appears. Thanks!


Marcel
-- 
Marcel Meyer
| Netzwerk- und Rechnerorganisation
| Fachschaft Mathematik/Physik/Informatik
| Technische Universit?t M?nchen
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From wash at wananchi.com  Sun Sep 11 16:02:17 2005
From: wash at wananchi.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 17:02:17 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] htdig integration broken after upgrade
Message-ID: <20050911140217.GB92281@ns2.wananchi.com>

Hello users,
I have searched the archives for this one and I did not get any answers
that would help my situation, though I did get some clues..

I recently upgraded a 2.1.3 install to 2.1.5 (along with
htdig-2.1.5-0.1.patch and indexing-2.1.5-0.1.patch) and now
htdig/archive searches are failing for the following error:

<quote>

 search failed -12-

If you want to make another attempt to access a list archive then go via the list
users information page.

If this problem persists then please e-mail the following information to the
mailman _at_ ns2.wananchi.com:

    http://ns2.wananchi.com/pipermail/list8/
    /mailman/mmsearch/list8

</quote>

Looking at /usr/local/mailman/logs/error, this is what I see:

Sep 11 11:50:12 2005 (75197) htsearch for list: list8, existatus: 127
Sep 11 11:50:12 2005 (75197) htsearch for list: list8, cause: htsearch, detail: -12-
Sep 11 15:41:51 2005 (25558) htsearch for list: , cause: info, detail: No list -2-
Sep 11 16:04:28 2005 (52409) htsearch for list: list1, existatus: 127
Sep 11 16:04:28 2005 (52409) htsearch for list: list1, cause: htsearch, detail: -12-

After consulting the big brain, I did look at my mm_cfg.py and realized
that some paths needed correction with respect to Defaults.py where I
found out that certain variables used previously for HTDIG* were
nolonger in use.

After the fixes, and after running the nightly_htdig script again as
the mailman user, searching the archives now gives a different error:

ht://Dig error
Unable to read document index file
Did you run htmerge?

..and in the ~mailman/logs/error, I see this now:

Sep 11 16:42:57 2005 (23110) htsearch for list: theteam, existatus: 1

At this point, I am surely an my /etc (end of thinking capaity) on this
problem. It's shifted goalpoasts ;)


I'll appreciate your help in resolving this.

        cheers
       - wash 
+----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
Odhiambo Washington            		. WANANCHI ONLINE LTD (Nairobi, KE)  |
wash () WANANCHI ! com			. 1ere Etage, Loita Hse, Loita St.,  |
GSM: (+254) 722 743 223			. # 10286, 00100 NAIROBI             |
GSM: (+254) 733 744 121			. (+254) 020 313 985 - 9             |
+---------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!"  
						 --from a /. post


From greg at ascendnetwork.com  Sun Sep 11 18:12:03 2005
From: greg at ascendnetwork.com (Greg Burnett / Ascend Network)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:12:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Maildir Problem - Part 1
Message-ID: <000f01c5b6eb$8fff9a30$967ba8c0@ascendnetwork>

I am trying to set up my mailman get my messages from my maildir using
qrunner 
and the USE_MAILDIR option. I have getmail that successfully imports my
mail 
from my pop account to the maildir but that is where it stops. Here are
is 
the configuration:
 
 
My mm_cfg.py------>
 
#######################################################
#    Here's where we get the distributed defaults.    #
 
from Defaults import *
 
##############################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific configuration below, in mm_cfg.py . #
# See Defaults.py for explanations of the values.            #
#####
# Qrunner defaults
#####
 
# Which queues should the qrunner master watchdog spawn?  This is a list
of # 2-tuples containing the name of the qrunner class (which must live
in a # module of the same name within the Mailman.Queue package), and
the number of # parallel processes to fork for each qrunner.  If more
than one process is # used, each will take an equal subdivision of the
hash space.
 
# BAW: Eventually we may support weighted hash spaces.
# BAW: Although not enforced, the # of slices must be a power of 2
 
QRUNNERS = [
    ('ArchRunner',     1), # messages for the archiver
    ('BounceRunner',   1), # for processing the qfile/bounces directory
    ('CommandRunner',  1), # commands and bounces from the outside world
    ('IncomingRunner', 1), # posts from the outside world
    ('NewsRunner',     1), # outgoing messages to the nntpd
    ('OutgoingRunner', 1), # outgoing messages to the smtpd
    ('VirginRunner',   1), # internally crafted (virgin birth) messages
    ('RetryRunner',    1), # retry temporarily failed deliveries
    ]
# Set this to Yes to use the `Maildir' delivery option.  If you change
this # you will need to re-run bin/genaliases for MTAs that don't use
list # auto-detection. # # WARNING: If you want to use Maildir delivery,
you /must/ start Mailman's # qrunner as root, or you will get permission
problems. # # NOTE: Maildir delivery is experimental for Mailman 2.1.
USE_MAILDIR = Yes # NOTE: If you set USE_MAILDIR = Yes, add the
following line to your mm_cfg.py QRUNNERS.append (('MaildirRunner', 1))
# runner sleep for before checking the queue directory again for new
files? # This can be a fraction of a second, or zero to check
immediately # (essentially busy-loop as fast as possible).
QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME = seconds(1)
 
# When a message that is unparsable (by the email package) is received,
what # should we do with it?  The most common cause of unparsable
messages is # broken MIME encapsulation, and the most common cause of
that is viruses like # Nimda.  Set this variable to No to discard such
messages, or to Yes to store # them in qfiles/bad subdirectory.
QRUNNER_SAVE_BAD_MESSAGES = Yes
 
# This flag causes Mailman to fsync() its data files after writing and #
flushing its contents.  While this ensures the data is written to disk,
# avoiding data loss, it may be a performance killer.  Note that this
flag # affects both message pickles and MailList config.pck files.
SYNC_AFTER_WRITE = No
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# The name of the list Mailman uses to send password reminders # and
similar. Don't change if you want mailman-owner to be # a valid local
part. MAILMAN_SITE_LIST = 'mailman'
 
 
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# If you change these, you have to configure your http server
# accordingly (Alias and ScriptAlias directives in most httpds)
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/cgi-bin/mailman
<http://%25s/cgi-bin/mailman> ' PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL =
'/cgi-bin/mailman/private' IMAGE_LOGOS = '/images/'
 
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Default domain for email addresses of newly created MLs
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'ascendnetwork.com'
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Default host for web interface of newly created MLs
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = '68.202.202.172'
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Required when setting any of its arguments.
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
 
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# The default language for this server.
DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en'
 
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Iirc this was used in pre 2.1, leave it for now
USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER    = 0              # Still used?
 
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Unset send_reminders on newly created lists DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = 0
 
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment this if you configured your MTA such that it
# automatically recognizes newly created lists.
# (see /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.{EXIM,...})
# MTA=None   # Misnomer, suppresses alias output on newlist
 
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment if you use Postfix virtual domains, but be sure to # read
/usr/share/doc/mailman/README.POSTFIX first. # MTA='Postfix'
 
# Note - if you're looking for something that is imported from mm_cfg,
but you # didn't find it above, it's probably in
/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py.
 
 


From greg at ascendnetwork.com  Sun Sep 11 18:12:45 2005
From: greg at ascendnetwork.com (Greg Burnett / Ascend Network)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:12:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Maildir Problem - Part 2
Message-ID: <001401c5b6eb$a8ee5a90$967ba8c0@ascendnetwork>

My .getmail ------>
 
[retriever]
 
type = SimplePOP3Retriever
 
server = pop.ascendnetwork.com
 
username = mailman at ascendnetwork.com
 
password = jonathan
 
 
 
 
[destination]
type = Maildir
user = mmuser
path = /home/mmmail/
 
 
 
[options]
 
verbose = 2
 
received = false
 
message_log = ~/.getmail/log
 
 
My getmail log -------->
 
2005-09-10 12:18:24 msg 1/1 (611 bytes) msgid 2005090915414601590025a982
from 
<greg at ascendnetwork.com>
2005-09-10 12:23:22 Initializing 
SimplePOP3Retriever:mailman at ascendnetwork.com@pop.ascendnetwork.com:110:
2005-09-10 12:23:23 msg 1/1 (611 bytes) msgid 2005090915414601590025a982
from 
<greg at ascendnetwork.com> delivered to Maildir /home/mmmail/ 2005-09-10
14:34:32 Initializing 
SimplePOP3Retriever:mailman at ascendnetwork.com@pop.ascendnetwork.com:110:
2005-09-10 14:34:33 msg 1/2 (611 bytes) msgid 2005090915414601590025a982
from 
<greg at ascendnetwork.com> delivered to Maildir /home/mmmail/ 2005-09-10
14:34:33 msg 2/2 (613 bytes) msgid 20050910112920046500261e03 from 
<greg at ascendnetwork.com> delivered to Maildir /home/mmmail/ 2005-09-10
15:09:18 Initializing 
SimplePOP3Retriever:mailman at ascendnetwork.com@pop.ascendnetwork.com:110:
2005-09-10 15:09:19 msg 1/2 (611 bytes) msgid 2005090915414601590025a982
from 
<greg at ascendnetwork.com> delivered to Maildir /home/mmmail/ 2005-09-10
15:09:20 msg 2/2 (613 bytes) msgid 20050910112920046500261e03 from 
<greg at ascendnetwork.com> delivered to Maildir /home/mmmail/ 2005-09-10
17:38:36 Initializing 
SimplePOP3Retriever:mailman at ascendnetwork.com@pop.ascendnetwork.com:110:
2005-09-10 17:38:36 msg 1/4 (611 bytes) msgid 2005090915414601590025a982
from 
<greg at ascendnetwork.com> delivered to Maildir /home/mmmail/ 2005-09-10
17:38:36 msg 2/4 (613 bytes) msgid 20050910112920046500261e03 from 
<greg at ascendnetwork.com> delivered to Maildir /home/mmmail/ 2005-09-10
17:38:37 msg 3/4 (640 bytes) msgid 2005091014295804570026306d from 
<greg at ascendnetwork.com> delivered to Maildir /home/mmmail/ 2005-09-10
17:38:37 msg 4/4 (640 bytes) msgid 200509101434240299002630cc from 
<greg at ascendnetwork.com> delivered to Maildir /home/mmmail/
 
My Mailman Errors Log ------>
 
Sep 10 15:44:27 2005 mailmanctl(1432): No child with pid: 1417 
Sep 10 15:44:27 2005 mailmanctl(1432): [Errno 3] No such process 
Sep 10 15:44:27 2005 mailmanctl(1432): Stale pid file removed. 
Sep 10 15:50:04 2005 mailmanctl(1495): No child with pid: 1463 
Sep 10 15:50:04 2005 mailmanctl(1495): [Errno 3] No such process 
Sep 10 15:50:04 2005 mailmanctl(1495): Stale pid file removed.
 
My qrunner log ------>
 
Sep 10 17:37:12 2005 (1112) ArchRunner qrunner started.
Sep 10 17:37:12 2005 (1113) BounceRunner qrunner started.
Sep 10 17:37:12 2005 (1114) CommandRunner qrunner started.
Sep 10 17:37:12 2005 (1115) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Sep 10 17:37:13 2005 (1119) VirginRunner qrunner started.
Sep 10 17:37:13 2005 (1116) NewsRunner qrunner started.
Sep 10 17:37:13 2005 (1118) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
Sep 10 17:37:13 2005 (1124) RetryRunner qrunner started.
Sep 10 17:37:13 2005 (1125) MaildirRunner qrunner started.
 
The only SMTP entries were the subscribe welcome messages but none of
the 
messages I sent to the list wer processed. They still sit in the Maildir

queue.
 
Can someone tell me what I am doing wrong? Any suggestions on how to get
it up 
and running? Thanks. 
 
 


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Sep 11 18:22:58 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 18:22:58 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Maildir Problem - Part 1
In-Reply-To: <000f01c5b6eb$8fff9a30$967ba8c0@ascendnetwork>
References: <000f01c5b6eb$8fff9a30$967ba8c0@ascendnetwork>
Message-ID: <p06200722bf4a09cc9adc@[10.0.1.210]>

At 12:12 PM -0400 2005-09-11, Greg Burnett / Ascend Network wrote:

>  I am trying to set up my mailman get my messages from my maildir using
>  qrunner
>  and the USE_MAILDIR option. I have getmail that successfully imports my
>  mail
>  from my pop account to the maildir but that is where it stops. Here are
>  is
>  the configuration:

	Mailman doesn't use Maildir for message input.  It only uses it 
for message storage, as an alternative to 7th edition mbox format.

	This may not have been obvious from the documentation, and we 
should work to correct that.


	You'll need to have "getmail" feed the incoming messages directly 
to Mailman, or feed them to the local MTA (postfix, sendmail, 
whatever), which is then configured to feed them to Mailman.

	How you do this is going to be specific to "getmail" and is not 
something we can help you with.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Sep 11 18:50:54 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 09:50:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Maildir Problem - Part 2
In-Reply-To: <001401c5b6eb$a8ee5a90$967ba8c0@ascendnetwork>
Message-ID: <PC17402005091109505408281bf62312@msapiro>

Greg Burnett / Ascend Network wrote:
> 
>[destination]
>type = Maildir
>user = mmuser
>path = /home/mmmail/

It looks from the code that MaildirRunner expects the mail to be
delivered to the directory mm_cfg.MAILDIR_DIR/new. the default for
MAILDIR_DIR is $var_prefix/qfiles. It seems you have to either change
the destination path above to path_to/qfiles/new or change it to
/home/mmmail/new and add "MAILDIR_DIR = /home/mmmail" in mm_cfg.py
(unless perhaps getmail assumes the 'new' subdirectory).

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ashley at pcraft.com  Sun Sep 11 18:51:18 2005
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 10:51:18 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail to -bounces address
Message-ID: <43246086.5000102@pcraft.com>


    I'm receiving a lot of spam that comes in to our lists' 
-bounces at domain.com address.  And mailman will dutifully tell me they're 
Uncaught bounces.  All fine and well, but is there some way I can simply 
avoid that all together?  I can't block that email address, can I?

-- 
H | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere.
  +--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  IT Director / SysAdmin / WebSmith             .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Imaging                       .     3550 Arapahoe Ave. #6
  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A. 





From msapiro at value.net  Sun Sep 11 18:55:30 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 09:55:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Maildir Problem - Part 1
In-Reply-To: <p06200722bf4a09cc9adc@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <PC174020050911095530096886976886@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>	Mailman doesn't use Maildir for message input.  It only uses it 
>for message storage, as an alternative to 7th edition mbox format.
>
>	This may not have been obvious from the documentation, and we 
>should work to correct that.

Actually, it appears that the OP is correct and that there is a
mechanism for delivery to a Maildir. See my response to "Part 2".

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mylists2004 at gmail.com  Sun Sep 11 19:02:49 2005
From: mylists2004 at gmail.com (James)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 10:02:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Your membership in the mailing list XYZ has been
	disabled due to excessive bounces
Message-ID: <4b2a6ddc05091110022f49ba98@mail.gmail.com>

 I got unsubscribed from my own list because of "Your membership in the 
mailing list XYZ has been disabled due to excessive bounces". I don't get 
it. I didn't send any emails to the list so how could there be any 
'excessive bounces'.
 Two questions:
 1) Why am I getting this message?
2) Is there any way to prevent and/or protect the list from this happening 
again?
 TIA.


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Sep 11 19:07:52 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 10:07:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail to -bounces address
In-Reply-To: <43246086.5000102@pcraft.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005091110075209683c6316fc@msapiro>

Ashley M. Kirchner wrote:
>
>    I'm receiving a lot of spam that comes in to our lists' 
>-bounces at domain.com address.  And mailman will dutifully tell me they're 
>Uncaught bounces.  All fine and well, but is there some way I can simply 
>avoid that all together?  I can't block that email address, can I?


Yes, it is a real problem. You have three choices:

1) Ignore the "unrecognized bounce" mail.

2) Set bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner to No.

3) Turn off bounce processing all together.

Blocking mail to the -bounces address (or removing the alias) will have
the same effect as 3).

If you don't mind not seeing real unrecognized bounces, 2) is the best
option.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Sep 11 19:16:56 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 10:16:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Your membership in the mailing list XYZ has
	beendisabled due to excessive bounces
In-Reply-To: <4b2a6ddc05091110022f49ba98@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005091110165601873c6313f3@msapiro>

James wrote:

> I got unsubscribed from my own list because of "Your membership in the 
>mailing list XYZ has been disabled due to excessive bounces". I don't get 
>it. I didn't send any emails to the list so how could there be any 
>'excessive bounces'.
> Two questions:
> 1) Why am I getting this message?


Because mail from the list to your address was bounced back to Mailman
(at the listname-bounces at ... address). After enough bounces as
determined by the list's Bounce processing settings, your delivery was
disabled.


>2) Is there any way to prevent and/or protect the list from this happening 


Find out why list mail to you is bouncing and correct the problem. You
may be able to see a returned bounce by setting
bounce_notify_owner_on_disable to Yes. This will cause Mailman to send
the triggering bounce to the owner, but since that's you, it may
bounce too.

You may ultimately have to use an address at a different ISP or mail
service if the problem is that your mail is being blocked and you
can't resolve it with the ISP/service.

You could also turn off automated bounce processing for the list.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From alietss at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 11 19:58:40 2005
From: alietss at yahoo.com (Aliet Santiesteban Sifontes)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 10:58:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught runner exception: 'utf8' codec can't
	decode bytes in position 1-4: invalid data
Message-ID: <20050911175840.80154.qmail@web40429.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi list, I'm running mailman for several lists on
debian sarge, mailman-2.1.5-8, suddenly one of of the
lists stops working, maybe by spam or dos attack using
a bug in mailman, here the error, any ideas on how ti
fix this??:
Sep 11 13:34:35 2005 (12535) Uncaught runner
exception: 'utf8' codec can't decode bytes in position
1-4: invalid data
Sep 11 13:34:35 2005 (12535) Traceback (most recent
call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py",
line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py",
line 167, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File
"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py",
line 130, in _dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata,
pipeline)
  File
"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py",
line 153, in _dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File
"/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line
91, in process
    send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File
"/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line
132, in send_digests
    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File
"/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line
306, in send_i18n_digests
    msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
  File
"/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line
265, in process
    url = save_attachment(mlist, part, dir)
  File
"/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line
361, in save_attachment
    fnext = os.path.splitext(msg.get_filename(''))[1]
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Message.py", line
731, in get_filename
    return unicode(newvalue[2], newvalue[0] or
'us-ascii')
UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode bytes in
position 1-4: invalid data

Sep 11 13:34:35 2005 (12535) SHUNTING:
1126458561.9029009+2ca02ecc54d36f4e0a88a7ab17fc28736bd23635



	
		
______________________________________________________ 
Yahoo! for Good 
Watch the Hurricane Katrina Shelter From The Storm concert 
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/shelter 



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Sep 11 20:34:14 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 11:34:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught runner exception: 'utf8' codec
	can'tdecode bytes in position 1-4: invalid data
In-Reply-To: <20050911175840.80154.qmail@web40429.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509111134140000ea3f6e2e@msapiro>

Aliet Santiesteban Sifontes wrote:

>Hi list, I'm running mailman for several lists on
>debian sarge, mailman-2.1.5-8, suddenly one of of the
>lists stops working, maybe by spam or dos attack using
>a bug in mailman, here the error, any ideas on how ti
>fix this??:
>Sep 11 13:34:35 2005 (12535) Uncaught runner
>exception: 'utf8' codec can't decode bytes in position
>1-4: invalid data
>Sep 11 13:34:35 2005 (12535) Traceback (most recent
>call last):
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py",
>line 111, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py",
>line 167, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File
>"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py",
>line 130, in _dispose
>    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata,
>pipeline)
>  File
>"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py",
>line 153, in _dopipeline
>    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File
>"/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line
>91, in process
>    send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>  File
>"/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line
>132, in send_digests
>    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>  File
>"/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line
>306, in send_i18n_digests
>    msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
>  File
>"/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line
>265, in process
>    url = save_attachment(mlist, part, dir)
>  File
>"/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line
>361, in save_attachment
>    fnext = os.path.splitext(msg.get_filename(''))[1]
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Message.py", line
>731, in get_filename
>    return unicode(newvalue[2], newvalue[0] or
>'us-ascii')
>UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode bytes in
>position 1-4: invalid data
>
>Sep 11 13:34:35 2005 (12535) SHUNTING:
>1126458561.9029009+2ca02ecc54d36f4e0a88a7ab17fc28736bd23635

A message has been posted to the list with an attached file. The
scrubber is trying to create a file name for the scrubbed attachment
using the filename of the attachment, but the filename is either
unparseable from the message or garbled in some way.

The bad message is probably in the lists/<listname>/digest.mbox file.
Try moving that file aside or editing it and see if that allows the
list to resume working. If so, you may be able to reprocess the
shunted messages with bin/unshunt, but that may cause the error to
reappear.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jakko at xs4all.nl  Sun Sep 11 20:44:47 2005
From: jakko at xs4all.nl (Jakko Westerbeke)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 20:44:47 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hello & Question about compile error under OS X
	10.4.2
Message-ID: <43247B1F.1080106@xs4all.nl>

Hello,

My first post to this list, so first up I want to say "Hi" to everyone
here :)

But: I wouldn't have joined this list if I didn't have a problem with
Mailman that I can't figure out the solution to ... I'm trying to set up
Mailman 2.1.6 on a Mac running OS X 10.4.2, with Apple's default
installation of Python 2.3.5. The system is pretty much clean out of the
box (literally) and has Apple's developer tools installed in order to
get gcc.

Anyway, the problem is that I get an error during the "make install"
phase of installation, to be precise:

	Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ...
	Traceback (most recent call last):
	  File "bin/update", line 46, in ?
	    import paths
	  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/paths.py", line 55, in ?
	    import japanese
	ImportError: No module named japanese
	make: *** [update] Error 1

"./configure" and "make" both work without errors, but things stop at
this point during "make install" every time. I've traced this back to
the installation of the Japanese codecs that are supplied with Mailman,
because these refuse to install as well -- both when trying to make
Mailman itself, and when trying to install the codec separately using
the instructions provided with it. Is there a quick fix that I can't see?

FWIW, I couldn't care less about Japanese codecs due to the fact that I
don't speak Japanese and seriously don't expect to ever run a
Japanese-language list, which makes it annoying that I can't find a way
to simply skip this whole step ... It also reminds me of one of the
reasons why I stopped using Linux ;)

Any solutions would be very much appreciated :)

-- 
Jakko Westerbeke <jakko at xs4all.nl>
http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/afv


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Sep 11 21:00:21 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:00:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] htdig integration broken after upgrade
In-Reply-To: <20050911140217.GB92281@ns2.wananchi.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509111200210171ea3f6ee0@msapiro>

Odhiambo Washington wrote:
>
>I recently upgraded a 2.1.3 install to 2.1.5 (along with
>htdig-2.1.5-0.1.patch and indexing-2.1.5-0.1.patch) and now
>htdig/archive searches are failing for the following error:
>
<snip>
>
>After the fixes, and after running the nightly_htdig script again as
>the mailman user, searching the archives now gives a different error:
>
>ht://Dig error
>Unable to read document index file
>Did you run htmerge?
>
>..and in the ~mailman/logs/error, I see this now:
>
>Sep 11 16:42:57 2005 (23110) htsearch for list: theteam, existatus: 1
>
>At this point, I am surely an my /etc (end of thinking capaity) on this
>problem. It's shifted goalpoasts ;)


It looks like you may have either a permissions issue or maybe an
incorrect value for HTDIG_CONF_LINK_DIR. See the Permissions
Considerations and Local htdig Configuration sections in
INSTALL.htdig-mm.html

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Sep 11 21:23:07 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:23:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hello & Question about compile error under OS
	X10.4.2
In-Reply-To: <43247B1F.1080106@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509111223070734391057c5@msapiro>

Jakko Westerbeke wrote:
>
>But: I wouldn't have joined this list if I didn't have a problem with
>Mailman that I can't figure out the solution to ... I'm trying to set up
>Mailman 2.1.6 on a Mac running OS X 10.4.2, with Apple's default
>installation of Python 2.3.5. The system is pretty much clean out of the
>box (literally) and has Apple's developer tools installed in order to
>get gcc.



See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp
and in particular the linked post at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-July/045693.html


>Anyway, the problem is that I get an error during the "make install"
>phase of installation, to be precise:
>
>	Compiling /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ...
>	Traceback (most recent call last):
>	  File "bin/update", line 46, in ?
>	    import paths
>	  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/paths.py", line 55, in ?
>	    import japanese
>	ImportError: No module named japanese
>	make: *** [update] Error 1
>
>"./configure" and "make" both work without errors, but things stop at
>this point during "make install" every time. I've traced this back to
>the installation of the Japanese codecs that are supplied with Mailman,
>because these refuse to install as well -- both when trying to make
>Mailman itself, and when trying to install the codec separately using
>the instructions provided with it. Is there a quick fix that I can't see?
>
>FWIW, I couldn't care less about Japanese codecs due to the fact that I
>don't speak Japanese and seriously don't expect to ever run a
>Japanese-language list, which makes it annoying that I can't find a way
>to simply skip this whole step ... 


I think you can simply edit /usr/local/mailman/bin/paths.py and comment
out

import japanese

and also

import korean
import korean.aliases

if they are a problem too.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From alietss at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 11 23:52:07 2005
From: alietss at yahoo.com (Aliet Santiesteban Sifontes)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 14:52:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught runner exception: 'utf8' codec
	can'tdecode bytes in position 1-4: invalid data
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200509111134140000ea3f6e2e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20050911215208.94070.qmail@web40427.mail.yahoo.com>

Thank's Mark, how could I find the bad message, I'm
worried because If I can make the list work again, I
have the risk this happens again, is there any patch
for this??. I think that this can be a potencial dos
attack to other lists on the net.
Best regards

--- Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Aliet Santiesteban Sifontes wrote:
> 
> >Hi list, I'm running mailman for several lists on
> >debian sarge, mailman-2.1.5-8, suddenly one of of
> the
> >lists stops working, maybe by spam or dos attack
> using
> >a bug in mailman, here the error, any ideas on how
> ti
> >fix this??:
> >Sep 11 13:34:35 2005 (12535) Uncaught runner
> >exception: 'utf8' codec can't decode bytes in
> position
> >1-4: invalid data
> >Sep 11 13:34:35 2005 (12535) Traceback (most recent
> >call last):
> >  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py",
> >line 111, in _oneloop
> >    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
> >  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py",
> >line 167, in _onefile
> >    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> >  File
> >"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py",
> >line 130, in _dispose
> >    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata,
> >pipeline)
> >  File
> >"/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py",
> >line 153, in _dopipeline
> >    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg,
> msgdata)
> >  File
> >"/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py",
> line
> >91, in process
> >    send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
> >  File
> >"/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py",
> line
> >132, in send_digests
> >    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
> >  File
> >"/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py",
> line
> >306, in send_i18n_digests
> >    msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
> >  File
> >"/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py",
> line
> >265, in process
> >    url = save_attachment(mlist, part, dir)
> >  File
> >"/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py",
> line
> >361, in save_attachment
> >    fnext =
> os.path.splitext(msg.get_filename(''))[1]
> >  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/email/Message.py", line
> >731, in get_filename
> >    return unicode(newvalue[2], newvalue[0] or
> >'us-ascii')
> >UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode bytes
> in
> >position 1-4: invalid data
> >
> >Sep 11 13:34:35 2005 (12535) SHUNTING:
>
>1126458561.9029009+2ca02ecc54d36f4e0a88a7ab17fc28736bd23635
> 
> A message has been posted to the list with an
> attached file. The
> scrubber is trying to create a file name for the
> scrubbed attachment
> using the filename of the attachment, but the
> filename is either
> unparseable from the message or garbled in some way.
> 
> The bad message is probably in the
> lists/<listname>/digest.mbox file.
> Try moving that file aside or editing it and see if
> that allows the
> list to resume working. If so, you may be able to
> reprocess the
> shunted messages with bin/unshunt, but that may
> cause the error to
> reappear.
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is
> for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use
> your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 



	
		
______________________________________________________ 
Yahoo! for Good 
Watch the Hurricane Katrina Shelter From The Storm concert 
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/shelter 



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Sep 12 01:53:21 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 16:53:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught runner exception: 'utf8'
	codeccan'tdecode bytes in position 1-4: invalid data
In-Reply-To: <20050911215208.94070.qmail@web40427.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509111653210250553e6ccf@msapiro>

Aliet Santiesteban Sifontes wrote:

>Thank's Mark, how could I find the bad message,


You have to look through the digest.mbox file and find
Content-Disposition: headers. Typically, such a header might look like

Content-Disposition: attachment;
	filename="Some_name.ext"

In your case, the value of the filename= will look garbled.


>I'm
>worried because If I can make the list work again, I
>have the risk this happens again, is there any patch
>for this??. I think that this can be a potencial dos
>attack to other lists on the net.


There is no patch that I know of. The actual error occurs in the Python
email library, not in Mailman. The code has changed between Mailman
2.1.5 and 2.1.6, but not in a way that I think would avoid the
exception.

You could try replacing the line

    fnext = os.path.splitext(msg.get_filename(''))[1]

in /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py with

    try:
        fnext = os.path.splitext(msg.get_filename(''))[1]
    except UnicodeDecodeError:
        fnext = ''

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jakko at xs4all.nl  Mon Sep 12 11:00:20 2005
From: jakko at xs4all.nl (Jakko Westerbeke)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 11:00:20 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hello & Question about compile error under OS
 X10.4.2
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200509111223070734391057c5@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200509111223070734391057c5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <432543A4.8080905@xs4all.nl>

According to Mark Sapiro, on 11-9-05 21:23 the word on the street was...

> See
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp
> and in particular the linked post at
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-July/045693.html

Thanks, but I already found those articles and followed their 
instructions -- they work well until I run make install and encounter 
this error :(

> I think you can simply edit /usr/local/mailman/bin/paths.py

That was the first thing I tried, without success ...

And as I'm trying again now, I've just completed the make step, but can 
only find paths.py in /usr/local/mailman-2.1.6/misc/ (which is the dir 
I'm installing from, not to). *some waiting later* Strangely, but 
happily, it worked now. I have no idea what I did wrong first time 
round, but make install just exited without errors.

Thanks :) Time to get on with the rest of the install :)

-- 
Jakko Westerbeke <jakko at xs4all.nl>
http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/afv


From BIConsulting at blackiris.com  Mon Sep 12 14:07:08 2005
From: BIConsulting at blackiris.com (David Scribner)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 07:07:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cron jobs on Tiger Server
Message-ID: <p0623090cbf4b1dce7e4f@[67.103.160.115]>

Somehow since the beginning of the month none of my Mailman cron jobs 
are running correctly.  The mailpasswds cron job ran on the 1st of 
the month but since then none of the jobs like "senddigests" or the 
daily reminders of pending administrative notices have been running. 
I don't know what is causing this.  I did not make any changes to the 
set-up of Mailman except for adding several new mailing lists.

Digests have been sent at odd times, none of which have made any 
sense to me since they are not going out at the appointed time or 
because they have reached the set size to be sent.

I have checked the permissions and as far as I can se they are all OK 
so I'm not sure where to look to find the problem.  Below is a 
listing of the Mailman cron jobs showing the permissions if that 
might help any of you to help me figure this out.

Thanks

David Scribner
BI Consulting

*************************************************
lists2:/usr/share/mailman administrator$ ls
Mailman         cron            messages        templates
bin             icons           pythonlib       tests
cgi-bin         mail            scripts
lists2:/usr/share/mailman administrator$ cd cron
lists2:/usr/share/mailman/cron administrator$ ls
bumpdigests     crontab.in      gate_news       nightly_gzip    paths.pyc
checkdbs        disabled        mailpasswds     paths.py        senddigests
lists2:/usr/share/mailman/cron administrator$ ls -al
total 144
drwxrwsr-x   12 root     mailman    408 Jul 30 16:15 .
drwxrwsr-x   13 root     mailman    442 Mar 20 17:17 ..
-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     mailman   2374 Mar 20 17:17 bumpdigests
-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     mailman   5930 Mar 20 17:17 checkdbs
-rw-r--r--    1 root     mailman   1261 Mar 20 17:17 crontab.in
-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     mailman   8238 Mar 20 17:17 disabled
-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     mailman  10170 Mar 20 17:17 gate_news
-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     mailman   9065 Mar 20 17:17 mailpasswds
-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     mailman   4376 Mar 20 17:17 nightly_gzip
-rw-r--r--    1 root     mailman   2412 Mar 20 17:17 paths.py
-rw-r--r--    1 mailman  mailman    653 Jul 30 16:15 paths.pyc
-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     mailman   2363 Mar 20 17:17 senddigests



From dhphllps at memphis.edu  Mon Sep 12 14:28:27 2005
From: dhphllps at memphis.edu (Dan Phillips)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 07:28:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cron jobs on Tiger Server
In-Reply-To: <p0623090cbf4b1dce7e4f@[67.103.160.115]>
References: <p0623090cbf4b1dce7e4f@[67.103.160.115]>
Message-ID: <1C36231D-ECA3-4260-B82D-5AEE7987FDAB@memphis.edu>


On Sep 12, 2005, at 7:07 AM, David Scribner wrote:

> Somehow since the beginning of the month none of my Mailman cron jobs
> are running correctly.

Did you apply the latest security update from Apple? On my system,  
doing so deleted mailman's crontab, as did the update from 10.4.1 to  
10.4.2. Supposedly, in Tiger cron jobs have mostly been replaced by  
launchd, but apparently nothing was done to replace Mailman's  
necessary cron functions. Luckily for me, I had a copy of the Mailman  
crontab, which I was able to reinstall, and everything worked  
normally again.

Dan


================================
Dan Phillips
Associate Professor of Horn, University of Memphis
site administrator: music.memphis.edu



From alietss at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 12 16:32:20 2005
From: alietss at yahoo.com (Aliet Santiesteban Sifontes)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 07:32:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught runner exception: 'utf8'
	codeccan'tdecode bytes in position 1-4: invalid data
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200509111653210250553e6ccf@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20050912143220.4999.qmail@web40421.mail.yahoo.com>

Mark, I found the problematic email, look at this:
...more mail data here
--TB36FDmn/VVEgNH/
Content-Type: application/msword
Content-Disposition: attachment;
       
filename*=utf-8''C%F3mo%20montar%20un%20servidor%20Samba%20PDC%20en%20una%20red%20de%20m%E1quinas%20MS%20Windows%20XP%
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

...more mail data here
--- Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Aliet Santiesteban Sifontes wrote:
> 
> >Thank's Mark, how could I find the bad message,
> 
> 
> You have to look through the digest.mbox file and
> find
> Content-Disposition: headers. Typically, such a
> header might look like
> 
> Content-Disposition: attachment;
> 	filename="Some_name.ext"
> 
> In your case, the value of the filename= will look
> garbled.
> 
> 
> >I'm
> >worried because If I can make the list work again,
> I
> >have the risk this happens again, is there any
> patch
> >for this??. I think that this can be a potencial
> dos
> >attack to other lists on the net.
> 
> 
> There is no patch that I know of. The actual error
> occurs in the Python
> email library, not in Mailman. The code has changed
> between Mailman
> 2.1.5 and 2.1.6, but not in a way that I think would
> avoid the
> exception.
> 
> You could try replacing the line
> 
>     fnext =
> os.path.splitext(msg.get_filename(''))[1]
> 
> in /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py
> with
> 
>     try:
>         fnext =
> os.path.splitext(msg.get_filename(''))[1]
>     except UnicodeDecodeError:
>         fnext = ''
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is
> for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use
> your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 



	
		
______________________________________________________ 
Yahoo! for Good 
Donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. 
http://store.yahoo.com/redcross-donate3/ 



From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Sep 12 16:35:07 2005
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 23:35:07 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd:  GMAIL
In-Reply-To: <e04a6c9205090911114a2873ca@mail.gmail.com> (Bryan Carbonnell's
	message of "Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:11:07 -0400")
References: <BAY102-F17EA94332079DCD24561ACC9980@phx.gbl>
	<e04a6c9205090911004b943c00@mail.gmail.com>
	<e04a6c9205090911114a2873ca@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87irx6e4mc.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Bryan" == Bryan Carbonnell <carbonnb at gmail.com> writes:

    Bryan> I *won't* see this e-mail coming back from the list in my
    Bryan> GMail, but I *will* see it with my home e-mail address.

ISTR that GMail (but maybe it was Yahoo) uses some kind of header to
"tag" its own mail, and if that's not there it concludes it's a spoof,
and spamfilters it.


-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From dpifer at odu.edu  Mon Sep 12 17:28:30 2005
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 11:28:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Complaints about MM 2.1.6b4
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005090915381400932cf619ab@msapiro>
References: <PC17402005090915381400932cf619ab@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1126538910.10026.40.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20050912/a3cb4078/attachment.pot 

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Sep 12 18:22:33 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 09:22:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Complaints about MM 2.1.6b4
In-Reply-To: <1126538910.10026.40.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509120922330125276f37de@msapiro>

Darren G Pifer wrote:

>Under the membership management section, up to some number
>of e-mail addresses, mailman splits the e-mail addresses into 
>alphabetized sections. One of our list admins would like to have
>mailman show all of the e-mail addresses in a single window, if
>possible, or into multiple windows of 50 or 100 e-mail address chunks.

Each list has an attribute admin_member_chunksize which controls this
for that list. If the total membership is <=
admin_membership_chunksize, it will be displayed in one page.
Otherwise, it will be displayed in sections by the first character of
the e-mail address.

There is an existing RFE related to this at
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=782436&group_id=103&atid=350103

Unfortunately, the gotcha here is that admin_member_chunksize is not
available in the admin interface (see
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1072002&group_id=103&atid=100103).
It is set at list create time from the Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py variable
DEFAULT_ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE, but after the list is created, it has
to be changed with bin/withlist. See
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-June/045020.html
for an example of how to do this.

The search
http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amail.python.org+admin_member_chunksize
will turn up lots of prior discussion of this.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From phil at swowd.com  Mon Sep 12 19:15:47 2005
From: phil at swowd.com (Phil)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 13:15:47 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail List Password
Message-ID: <E1EEruG-00011F-3T@smtpauth05.mail.atl.earthlink.net>

I have forgotten the password to one of my mail lists.  For the life of me I
can't seem to find a way to reset the password.  Any help?  The control
panel would be Plesk 7



From ryanczak at arin.net  Mon Sep 12 19:19:26 2005
From: ryanczak at arin.net (Matt Ryanczak)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 13:19:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] patch to add date to each meassge in mail archive
	Index
Message-ID: <1126545566.2444.79.camel@otto.arin.net>

I was asked to make the date for each message in a mailman archive be
visible in the index for that month. This required that I modify
HyperArch.py and the template file archidxentry.html. I thought others
might find this useful so here are the relevant patches for the
mailman-2.1.6 source tree. 

I apologize if this is a duplication of someone else efforts, I searched
around and could not find a way to do this in mailman as it was or a
patch to do the same.


Regards,
-- 
Matt Ryanczak
American Registry for Internet Numbers
Lead System Administrator

Apply the following patches to your mailman source tree and setup as
usual. You should be able to patch a live copy of mailman without issue
though you will have to modify the patch files according to the prefix
mailman is installed in. If you patch a live mailman install you'll have
to run "$PREFIX/bin/arch --wipe $LISTNAME" for each list hosted by that
mailman installation.

--- HyperArch.py        2005-09-12 11:29:44.000000000 -0400
+++ mailman-2.1.6/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py    	  2005-05-13
07:35:37.000000000 -0400
@@ -1024,7 +1024,6 @@
     def write_index_entry(self, article):
         subject = self.get_header("subject", article)
         author = self.get_header("author", article)
-        datestr = self.get_header("datestr", article)
         if mm_cfg.ARCHIVER_OBSCURES_EMAILADDRS:
             try:
                 author = re.sub('@', _(' at '), author)
@@ -1033,14 +1032,12 @@
                 pass
         subject = CGIescape(subject, self.lang)
         author = CGIescape(author, self.lang)
-        datestr = CGIescape(datestr, self.lang)

         d = {
             'filename': urllib.quote(article.filename),
             'subject':  subject,
             'sequence': article.sequence,
-            'author':   author,
-            'datestr':  datestr
+            'author':   author
         }
         print quick_maketext(
             'archidxentry.html', d,



--- archidxentry.html   2005-09-12 11:34:59.000000000 -0400
+++ /home/ryanczak/src/mailman-2.1.6/templates/en/archidxentry.html
2002-10-08 12:50:41.000000000 -0400
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-<LI> %(datestr)s&nbsp;&nbsp;<A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
+<LI><A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
 </A><A NAME="%(sequence)i">&nbsp;</A>
 <I>%(author)s
 </I>






From ryanczak at arin.net  Mon Sep 12 19:20:48 2005
From: ryanczak at arin.net (Matt Ryanczak)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 13:20:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail List Password
In-Reply-To: <E1EEruG-00011F-3T@smtpauth05.mail.atl.earthlink.net>
References: <E1EEruG-00011F-3T@smtpauth05.mail.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1126545648.2444.81.camel@otto.arin.net>

Phil,
	Try the command change_pw in your mailman bin directory. Here's the
output of change_pw --help

Usage: change_pw [options]

Options:

    --all / -a
        Change the password for all lists.

    --domain=domain
    -d domain
        Change the password for all lists in the virtual domain
`domain'.  It
        is okay to give multiple -d options.

    --listname=listname
    -l listname
        Change the password only for the named list.  It is okay to give
        multiple -l options.

    --password=newpassword
    -p newpassword
        Use the supplied plain text password `newpassword' as the new
password
        for any lists that are being changed (as specified by the -a,
-d, and
        -l options).  If not given, lists will be assigned a randomly
        generated new password.

    --quiet / -q
        Don't notify list owners of the new password.  You'll have to
have
        some other way of letting the list owners know the new password
        (presumably out-of-band).

    --help / -h
        Print this help message and exit.

-- 
Matt Ryanczak
American Registry for Internet Numbers
Lead System Administrator



On Mon, 2005-09-12 at 13:15 -0400, Phil wrote:
> I have forgotten the password to one of my mail lists.  For the life of me I
> can't seem to find a way to reset the password.  Any help?  The control
> panel would be Plesk 7
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ryanczak%40arin.net
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
> 




From msapiro at value.net  Mon Sep 12 20:06:52 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 11:06:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] patch to add date to each meassge in mail
	archiveIndex
In-Reply-To: <1126545566.2444.79.camel@otto.arin.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509121106520375b469a0cb@msapiro>

Matt Ryanczak wrote:

>I was asked to make the date for each message in a mailman archive be
>visible in the index for that month. This required that I modify
>HyperArch.py and the template file archidxentry.html. I thought others
>might find this useful so here are the relevant patches for the
>mailman-2.1.6 source tree. 
>
>I apologize if this is a duplication of someone else efforts, I searched
>around and could not find a way to do this in mailman as it was or a
>patch to do the same.

Thanks for developing this patch. It would help for tracking and
possible adoption into the base if you would submit it to the Mailman
patch tracker at
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=300103

You might also add a note to the RFE at
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=843141&group_id=103&atid=350103

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From fvargas at asoban.bo  Mon Sep 12 21:04:31 2005
From: fvargas at asoban.bo (Fabricio Vargas)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 15:04:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Qmail
Message-ID: <NGEAKIMPDPPKFJBDBCOAAEELDEAA.fvargas@asoban.bo>

HI
I have  qmail with Centos 3.5, I am trying to install mailman 2.1.6,  but
when i send a mail i get this error:

Hi. This is the qmail-send program at ns.asoban.bo.
I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.

<lista3 at mydomain.bo>:
vdeliver: Invalid or unknown virtual user 'lista3'

I followed the guide "GNU - Mailman" and this is my configuration

in Defaults.py

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'ns.mydomain.bo'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'ns.mydomain.bo'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'

in  mm_cfg.py

add_virtualhost('www.mydomain.bo','mydomain.bo')

I create the list whit this command

./newlist --urlhost=www.mydomain.bo --emailhost=mydomain.bo lista3

and add the following to /etc/aliasses

## lista3 mailing list
lista3:              "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post lista3"
lista3-admin:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin lista3"
lista3-bounces:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces lista3"
lista3-confirm:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm lista3"
lista3-join:         "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join lista3"
lista3-leave:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave lista3"
lista3-owner:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner lista3"
lista3-request:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request lista3"
lista3-subscribe:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe lista3"
lista3-unsubscribe:  "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe lista3"

Could anyone help me to identified where is the problem?

Thank you

Fabricio Vargas




From Asmith at tyndale.ca  Mon Sep 12 21:14:41 2005
From: Asmith at tyndale.ca (Andrew Smith)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 15:14:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] patch to add date to each meassge in
	mail	archiveIndex
Message-ID: <s3259b88.019@groupwise.tyndale.ca>

I was looking for a solution to put the date available in the archives.
I have completed the patch as described and get an error when I rebuild
my archives
- - - 
File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 1005, in
write_index_entry
    datestr = self.get_header("datestr", article)
  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 1027, in
get_header
    return getattr(article, field)
AttributeError: Article instance has no attribute 'datestr'
- - -

Anyone able to help me with this?

---
Andrew Smith
Web Developer
Tyndale University College & Seminary
416-226-6620 (2714)
--
asmith at tyndale.ca
http://www.tyndale.ca
http://www.tyndale.ca/it
http://www.tyndale.ca/~asmith
--
25 Ballyconnor Court
Toronto, Ontario.
M2M 4B3
--
Tyndale's Mission is "to educate and equip Christians to serve the
world with passion for Jesus Christ."
---

>>> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> 9/12/2005 2:06:52 PM >>>
Matt Ryanczak wrote:

>I was asked to make the date for each message in a mailman archive be
>visible in the index for that month. This required that I modify
>HyperArch.py and the template file archidxentry.html. I thought
others
>might find this useful so here are the relevant patches for the
>mailman-2.1.6 source tree. 
>
>I apologize if this is a duplication of someone else efforts, I
searched
>around and could not find a way to do this in mailman as it was or a
>patch to do the same.

Thanks for developing this patch. It would help for tracking and
possible adoption into the base if you would submit it to the Mailman
patch tracker at
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=300103 

You might also add a note to the RFE at
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=843141&group_id=103&atid=350103


--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org 
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users 
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py 
Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ 
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/asmith%40tyndale.ca


Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Sep 12 21:25:57 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 12:25:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Qmail
In-Reply-To: <NGEAKIMPDPPKFJBDBCOAAEELDEAA.fvargas@asoban.bo>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509121225570781220428c6@msapiro>

Fabricio Vargas wrote:
>
>and add the following to /etc/aliasses
>
>## lista3 mailing list
>lista3:              "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post lista3"
>lista3-admin:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin lista3"
>lista3-bounces:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces lista3"
>lista3-confirm:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm lista3"
>lista3-join:         "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join lista3"
>lista3-leave:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave lista3"
>lista3-owner:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner lista3"
>lista3-request:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request lista3"
>lista3-subscribe:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe lista3"
>lista3-unsubscribe:  "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe lista3"

This is not the way aliases work with qmail. See
http://www.qmail.org/qmail-manual-html/misc/INSTALL.alias.html

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From daevid at daevid.com  Mon Sep 12 21:34:49 2005
From: daevid at daevid.com (Daevid Vincent)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 12:34:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman stopped working after upgrade
Message-ID: <20050912193456.AF3AC1E4005@bag.python.org>

Mailman was working, then a (Gentoo) 'emerge -Davu system' update happened
the other day and looks like it broke mailman.

daevid portage-logs # ll *mailman*
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 62662 Sep  7 11:34 3485-mailman-2.1.5-r4.log
-rw-r--r--  1 root root  1105 Sep  7 11:34 3486-mailman-2.1.5-r4.log

Sep 12 12:16:19 [Mailman mail-wrapper] Group mismatch error.  Mailman
expected the mail_wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman", but_the
system's mail server executed the mail script as_group "mail".  Try tweaking
the mail server to run the_script as group "mailman", or re-run configure,
_providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mail'._
Sep 12 12:16:19 [exim] 2005-09-12 12:16:19 1EEtms-00021M-60 **
|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post rbc <rbc at daevid.com> R=system_aliases
T=address_pipe: Child process of address_pipe transport returned 2 from
command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman

daevid bin # locate mail_wrapper
daevid bin # locate as_group

daevid portage-logs # ll /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
-rwxr-sr-x  1 mailman mailman 7768 Sep  7 11:34
/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman

daevid bin # ll            
total 372
drwxrwsr-x   2 mailman mailman  4096 Sep  7 11:34 .
drwxrwsr-x  20 mailman mailman  4096 Apr  4 13:52 ..
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  7612 Sep  7 11:34 add_members
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  5406 Sep  7 11:34 arch
-rw-r--r--   1 mailman mailman  3748 Sep  7 11:34 auto
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  2559 Sep  7 11:34 b4b5-archfix
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  6130 Sep  7 11:34 change_pw
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  4264 Sep  7 11:34 check_db
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman 12223 Sep  7 11:34 check_perms
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  6632 Sep  7 11:34 check_perms_grsecurity.py
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  5492 Sep  7 11:34 cleanarch
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  6409 Sep  7 11:34 clone_member
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman 12326 Sep  7 11:34 config_list
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  1499 Sep  7 11:34 convert.py
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  3238 Sep  7 11:34 discard
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  4399 Sep  7 11:34 dumpdb
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  4951 Sep  7 11:34 find_member
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  2633 Sep  7 11:34 fix_url.py
-rw-r--r--   1 mailman mailman  2497 Apr  4 13:52 fix_url.pyc
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  3097 Sep  7 11:34 genaliases
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  2815 Sep  7 11:34 inject
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  2561 Sep  7 11:34 list_admins
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  3329 Sep  7 11:34 list_lists
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  8316 Sep  7 11:34 list_members
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  3165 Sep  7 11:34 list_owners
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman 21124 Sep  7 11:34 mailmanctl
-rw-r--r--   1 mailman mailman 18995 Sep  7 11:34 majordomo2mailman.pl
-rw-r--r--   1 mailman mailman  5951 Sep  7 11:34 mm-handler
-rw-r--r--   1 mailman mailman  7048 Sep  7 11:34 mm-handler.readme
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  2989 Sep  7 11:34 mmsitepass
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  5530 Sep  7 11:34 msgfmt.py
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  7127 Sep  7 11:34 newlist
-rw-r--r--   1 mailman mailman  2412 Sep  7 11:34 paths.py
-rw-r--r--   1 root    mailman   652 Sep  7 11:34 paths.pyc
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  4076 Sep  7 11:34 qmail-to-mailman.py
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  9196 Sep  7 11:34 qrunner
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  2957 Sep  7 11:34 rb-archfix
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  4699 Sep  7 11:34 remove_members
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  4256 Sep  7 11:34 rmlist
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  3463 Sep  7 11:34 rotatelogs.py
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  1346 Sep  7 11:34 show_qfiles
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  9664 Sep  7 11:34 sync_members
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman 11999 Sep  7 11:34 transcheck
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  2286 Sep  7 11:34 unshunt
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman 29648 Sep  7 11:34 update
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman   963 Sep  7 11:34 version
-rwxr-xr-x   1 mailman mailman  8382 Sep  7 11:34 withlist

daevid portage-logs # more 3486-mailman-2.1.5-r4.log
No updates are necessary.
 * Running `/usr/local/mailman/bin/check_perms -f` *
/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/admindb must be set-gid (fixing)
/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/admin must be set-gid (fixing)
/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/confirm must be set-gid (fixing)
/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/create must be set-gid (fixing)
/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/edithtml must be set-gid (fixing)
/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo must be set-gid (fixing)
/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/options must be set-gid (fixing)
/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/private must be set-gid (fixing)
/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/rmlist must be set-gid (fixing)
/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/roster must be set-gid (fixing)
/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/subscribe must be set-gid (fixing)
/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman must be set-gid (fixing)
Problems found: 12
Re-run as mailman (or root) with -f flag to fix
 * 
 * Please read /usr/share/doc/mailman-2.1.5-r4/README.gentoo.gz for
additional
 * Setup information, mailman will NOT run unless you follow
 * those instructions!
 *

daevid portage-logs # /usr/local/mailman/bin/check_perms -f
No problems found

I read the README, but I've already been using mailman, it doesn't mention
anything about upgrading. 

daevid bin # ./check_db
Nothing to do.



From ryanczak at arin.net  Mon Sep 12 21:50:57 2005
From: ryanczak at arin.net (Matt Ryanczak)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 15:50:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] patch to add date to each meassge
	in	mail	archiveIndex
In-Reply-To: <s3259b88.019@groupwise.tyndale.ca>
References: <s3259b88.019@groupwise.tyndale.ca>
Message-ID: <1126554657.2444.103.camel@otto.arin.net>

Andrew,
	Are you running mailman version 2.1.6? I you like, please send me a
copy of your HyperArch.py and I'll take a look at it. I did test this
patch out before sending it to the list so I know it works (well, at
least for me.

-Matt

On Mon, 2005-09-12 at 15:14 -0400, Andrew Smith wrote:
> I was looking for a solution to put the date available in the archives.
> I have completed the patch as described and get an error when I rebuild
> my archives
> - - - 
> File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 1005, in
> write_index_entry
>     datestr = self.get_header("datestr", article)
>   File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py", line 1027, in
> get_header
>     return getattr(article, field)
> AttributeError: Article instance has no attribute 'datestr'
> - - -
> 
> Anyone able to help me with this?
> 
> ---
> Andrew Smith
> Web Developer
> Tyndale University College & Seminary
> 416-226-6620 (2714)
> --
> asmith at tyndale.ca
> http://www.tyndale.ca
> http://www.tyndale.ca/it
> http://www.tyndale.ca/~asmith
> --
> 25 Ballyconnor Court
> Toronto, Ontario.
> M2M 4B3
> --
> Tyndale's Mission is "to educate and equip Christians to serve the
> world with passion for Jesus Christ."
> ---
> 
> >>> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> 9/12/2005 2:06:52 PM >>>
> Matt Ryanczak wrote:
> 
> >I was asked to make the date for each message in a mailman archive be
> >visible in the index for that month. This required that I modify
> >HyperArch.py and the template file archidxentry.html. I thought
> others
> >might find this useful so here are the relevant patches for the
> >mailman-2.1.6 source tree. 
> >
> >I apologize if this is a duplication of someone else efforts, I
> searched
> >around and could not find a way to do this in mailman as it was or a
> >patch to do the same.
> 
> Thanks for developing this patch. It would help for tracking and
> possible adoption into the base if you would submit it to the Mailman
> patch tracker at
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=300103 
> 
> You might also add a note to the RFE at
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=843141&group_id=103&atid=350103
> 
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users 
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py 
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ 
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/asmith%40tyndale.ca
> 
> 
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ryanczak%40arin.net
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
> 



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Sep 12 22:10:56 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 13:10:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman stopped working after upgrade
In-Reply-To: <20050912193456.AF3AC1E4005@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402005091213105605467c0b07fa@msapiro>

Daevid Vincent wrote:
>
>Sep 12 12:16:19 [Mailman mail-wrapper] Group mismatch error.  Mailman
>expected the mail_wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman", but_the
>system's mail server executed the mail script as_group "mail".  Try tweaking
>the mail server to run the_script as group "mailman", or re-run configure,
>_providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mail'._

See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Sep 12 21:24:19 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 21:24:19 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail List Password
In-Reply-To: <E1EEruG-00011F-3T@smtpauth05.mail.atl.earthlink.net>
References: <E1EEruG-00011F-3T@smtpauth05.mail.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <p0620073dbf4b8618bd13@[10.0.1.210]>

At 1:15 PM -0400 2005-09-12, Phil wrote:

>  I have forgotten the password to one of my mail lists.  For the life of me I
>  can't seem to find a way to reset the password.  Any help?  The control
>  panel would be Plesk 7

	Go to the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> and search for "plesk". 
We will try to provide whatever help we can, but because of the way 
they modify Mailman for integration with Plesk, we will be very 
limited in what we can do.

	You could contact the vendor or their support group for assistance.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From ryanczak at arin.net  Mon Sep 12 22:47:53 2005
From: ryanczak at arin.net (Matt Ryanczak)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 16:47:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] patch to add date to each meassge in mail
	archiveIndex
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200509121106520375b469a0cb@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200509121106520375b469a0cb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4325E979.5020501@arin.net>

Mark,
    Thanks or the information. I'll make sure to go through process of 
submitting this patch to the community site.

-Matt

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Matt Ryanczak wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I was asked to make the date for each message in a mailman archive be
>>visible in the index for that month. This required that I modify
>>HyperArch.py and the template file archidxentry.html. I thought others
>>might find this useful so here are the relevant patches for the
>>mailman-2.1.6 source tree. 
>>
>>I apologize if this is a duplication of someone else efforts, I searched
>>around and could not find a way to do this in mailman as it was or a
>>patch to do the same.
>>    
>>
>
>Thanks for developing this patch. It would help for tracking and
>possible adoption into the base if you would submit it to the Mailman
>patch tracker at
>http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=300103
>
>You might also add a note to the RFE at
>http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=843141&group_id=103&atid=350103
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>  
>




From daevid at daevid.com  Mon Sep 12 22:51:56 2005
From: daevid at daevid.com (Daevid Vincent)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 13:51:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman stopped working after upgrade
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005091213105605467c0b07fa@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20050912205205.3B6901E4005@bag.python.org>

Thanks for the reply. I don't know why this would have broken/changed. I've
been running mailman, so this was really just an upgrade. Same user/groups,
lists, dirs, etc.

The only 'USE' flag I have availabe to me is +apache2
[ebuild   R   ] net-mail/mailman-2.1.5-r4  +apache2 5,611 kB 

Furthermore, it appears that the .ebuild has those --with flags mentioned in
the FAQ.

# more /usr/portage/net-mail/mailman/mailman-2.1.5-r4.ebuild
...
src_compile() {
        econf \
                --prefix=${INSTALLDIR} \
                --with-mail-gid=${MAILGID} \
                --with-cgi-gid=${APACHEGID} \
        || die "configure failed"

        make || die "make failed"
}
...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
> Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 1:11 PM
> To: Daevid Vincent; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman stopped working after upgrade
> 
> Daevid Vincent wrote:
> >
> >Sep 12 12:16:19 [Mailman mail-wrapper] Group mismatch error.  Mailman
> >expected the mail_wrapper script to be executed as group 
> "mailman", but_the
> >system's mail server executed the mail script as_group 
> "mail".  Try tweaking
> >the mail server to run the_script as group "mailman", or 
> re-run configure,
> >_providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mail'._
> 
> See 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Sep 12 23:05:58 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 14:05:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman stopped working after upgrade
In-Reply-To: <200509121452802.SM01336@psmtp.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005091214055800158d9b8289@msapiro>

Daevid Vincent wrote:
>
>Furthermore, it appears that the .ebuild has those --with flags mentioned in
>the FAQ.
>
># more /usr/portage/net-mail/mailman/mailman-2.1.5-r4.ebuild
>...
>src_compile() {
>        econf \
>                --prefix=${INSTALLDIR} \
>                --with-mail-gid=${MAILGID} \
>                --with-cgi-gid=${APACHEGID} \
>        || die "configure failed"
>
>        make || die "make failed"
>}
>...


Yes, it has the flags, but what is the value of the ${MAILGID}
parameter?  The error message you received says it's 'mailman' and
should be 'mail'.

Your original post says:

>daevid portage-logs # ll /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
>-rwxr-sr-x  1 mailman mailman 7768 Sep  7 11:34 /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman

Thus, the wrapper was recompiled with the upgrade on Sep 7 and that's
when things quit working so this is the likely cause.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From fvargas at asoban.bo  Mon Sep 12 23:10:47 2005
From: fvargas at asoban.bo (Fabricio Vargas)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 17:10:47 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Qmail
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200509121225570781220428c6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <NGEAKIMPDPPKFJBDBCOAAEFADEAA.fvargas@asoban.bo>


I run this script on /var/qmail/aliases

#!/bin/sh
if [ $# = 1 ]; then
    i=$1
    echo Making links to $i in the current directory...
    echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post $i" > .qmail-$i
    echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin $i" >
.qmail-$i-admin
    echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces $i" >
.qmail-$i-bounces
    # The following line is for VERP
    # echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces $i" >
.qmail-$i-bounces-default
    echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm $i" >
.qmail-$i-confirm
    echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join $i" > .qmail-$i-join
    echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave $i" >
.qmail-$i-leave
    echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner $i" >
.qmail-$i-owner
    echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request $i" >
.qmail-$i-request
    echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe $i" >
.qmail-$i-subscribe
    echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe $i" >
.qmail-$i-unsubscribe
fi

And now i have the following files  on /var/qmail/aliases

-rw-r--r--    1 root     qmail          53 Sep 12 15:59 .qmail-lista3
-rw-r--r--    1 root     qmail          54 Sep 12 15:59 .qmail-lista3-admin
-rw-r--r--    1 root     qmail          56 Sep 12 15:59
.qmail-lista3-bounces
-rw-r--r--    1 root     qmail          56 Sep 12 15:59
.qmail-lista3-confirm
-rw-r--r--    1 root     qmail          53 Sep 12 15:59 .qmail-lista3-join
-rw-r--r--    1 root     qmail          54 Sep 12 15:59 .qmail-lista3-leave
-rw-r--r--    1 root     qmail          54 Sep 12 15:59 .qmail-lista3-owner
-rw-r--r--    1 root     qmail          56 Sep 12 15:59
.qmail-lista3-request
-rw-r--r--    1 root     qmail          58 Sep 12 15:59
.qmail-lista3-subscribe
-rw-r--r--    1 root     qmail          60 Sep 12 15:59
.qmail-lista3-unsubscribe

and i have this in virtualdomains

[root at ns alias]# more /var/qmail/control/virtualdomains
mydomain.bo:mydomain_bo
otherdomain.bo:otherdomain_bo

but still the problem

Hi. This is the qmail-send program at ns.asoban.bo.
I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.

<lista3 at mydomain.bo>:
vdeliver: Invalid or unknown virtual user 'lista3'






-----Mensaje original-----
De: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
Enviado el: lunes, 12 de septiembre de 2005 15:26
Para: fvargas at asoban.bo; mailman-users at python.org
Asunto: Re: [Mailman-Users] Help with Qmail


Fabricio Vargas wrote:
>
>and add the following to /etc/aliasses
>
>## lista3 mailing list
>lista3:              "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post lista3"
>lista3-admin:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin lista3"
>lista3-bounces:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces lista3"
>lista3-confirm:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm lista3"
>lista3-join:         "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join lista3"
>lista3-leave:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave lista3"
>lista3-owner:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner lista3"
>lista3-request:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request lista3"
>lista3-subscribe:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe lista3"
>lista3-unsubscribe:  "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe lista3"

This is not the way aliases work with qmail. See
http://www.qmail.org/qmail-manual-html/misc/INSTALL.alias.html

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From elvisfern at gmail.com  Mon Sep 12 23:59:08 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 14:59:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman with MHonArc
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50509121459523c2927@mail.gmail.com>

 Hello,
 I am trying to setup a discussion archival system, where the discussion 
between users in a mail-list can be browsed on a webpage.
On searching the web, it seems like MhonArc can do this.
 I have setup mailman, and can access the mail-lists using a browser.
It seems that mailman is POP, and hence there is no inbox.
Is that correct, or could someone tell me where is the file containing all 
the emails for a mail-list?
 Does anyone know if this mailman-MhonArc combination will work?
 Thanks
Elvis Fernandes


From sujayt at gmail.com  Tue Sep 13 00:27:38 2005
From: sujayt at gmail.com (Sujay Thomas)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 18:27:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List Config
Message-ID: <1f1804e505091215274d2ebd39@mail.gmail.com>

This might be a rather simple solution but I can't seem to figure it out. 
I've set up a Mailman mailing list on my website and I want it to do just a 
few things:

1. Subscribers send mail to the mailing list address.
2. Everyone in the mailing list gets this message.
3. Any replies made to the messages get sent to everyone as well.

Right now it doesn't do this and I can't seem to figure out how to set it up 
that way. It can be done, right? 

Thank you.

-- 
Sujay Thomas
sujayt at gmail.com
www.isujay.com <http://www.isujay.com>


From cpz at tuunq.com  Tue Sep 13 00:36:07 2005
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 15:36:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List Config
In-Reply-To: <1f1804e505091215274d2ebd39@mail.gmail.com> from Sujay Thomas at
	"Sep 12, 2005 06:27:38 pm"
Message-ID: <20050912223607.ECA857AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Sujay Thomas wrote:

> 1. Subscribers send mail to the mailing list address.
> 2. Everyone in the mailing list gets this message.
> 3. Any replies made to the messages get sent to everyone as well.
> 
> Right now it doesn't do this and I can't seem to figure out how to set it up 
> that way. It can be done, right? 

If I understand correctly, you want a reply to a list message to go to
everyone on the list, not just the originator of the message. If so,
set the list as "reply to list" not "reply to poster".

OTOH, many people consider that a Bad Thing. Virtually all email
programs have a "reply-all" function, and that should be used if
you want to the entire list to see your reply. (flames on this to
nla0:)

z!



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Sep 13 00:48:51 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 15:48:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman with MHonArc
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc50509121459523c2927@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005091215485100157c88caa2@msapiro>

Elvis Fernandes wrote:

> I am trying to setup a discussion archival system, where the discussion 
>between users in a mail-list can be browsed on a webpage.
>On searching the web, it seems like MhonArc can do this.
> I have setup mailman, and can access the mail-lists using a browser.
>It seems that mailman is POP, and hence there is no inbox.
>Is that correct, or could someone tell me where is the file containing all 
>the emails for a mail-list?

Normally it is $prefix/archives/private/<listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox


> Does anyone know if this mailman-MhonArc combination will work?

It will.

Visit the FAQ wizard
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
and search for mhonarc.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Sep 13 01:01:23 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 16:01:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Qmail
In-Reply-To: <NGEAKIMPDPPKFJBDBCOAAEFADEAA.fvargas@asoban.bo>
Message-ID: <PC174020050912160123098432547caf@msapiro>

Fabricio Vargas wrote:
>
>I run this script on /var/qmail/aliases
>
>#!/bin/sh
>if [ $# = 1 ]; then
>    i=$1
>    echo Making links to $i in the current directory...
>    echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post $i" > .qmail-$i
>    echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin $i" >
>.qmail-$i-admin
>    echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces $i" >
>.qmail-$i-bounces
>    # The following line is for VERP
>    # echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces $i" >
>.qmail-$i-bounces-default
>    echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm $i" >
>.qmail-$i-confirm
>    echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join $i" > .qmail-$i-join
>    echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave $i" >
>.qmail-$i-leave
>    echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner $i" >
>.qmail-$i-owner
>    echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request $i" >
>.qmail-$i-request
>    echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe $i" >
>.qmail-$i-subscribe
>    echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe $i" >
>.qmail-$i-unsubscribe
>fi
>
>And now i have the following files  on /var/qmail/aliases
>
>-rw-r--r--    1 root     qmail          53 Sep 12 15:59 .qmail-lista3
>-rw-r--r--    1 root     qmail          54 Sep 12 15:59 .qmail-lista3-admin
>-rw-r--r--    1 root     qmail          56 Sep 12 15:59
>.qmail-lista3-bounces
>-rw-r--r--    1 root     qmail          56 Sep 12 15:59
>.qmail-lista3-confirm
>-rw-r--r--    1 root     qmail          53 Sep 12 15:59 .qmail-lista3-join
>-rw-r--r--    1 root     qmail          54 Sep 12 15:59 .qmail-lista3-leave
>-rw-r--r--    1 root     qmail          54 Sep 12 15:59 .qmail-lista3-owner
>-rw-r--r--    1 root     qmail          56 Sep 12 15:59
>.qmail-lista3-request
>-rw-r--r--    1 root     qmail          58 Sep 12 15:59
>.qmail-lista3-subscribe
>-rw-r--r--    1 root     qmail          60 Sep 12 15:59
>.qmail-lista3-unsubscribe
>
>and i have this in virtualdomains
>
>[root at ns alias]# more /var/qmail/control/virtualdomains
>mydomain.bo:mydomain_bo
>otherdomain.bo:otherdomain_bo
>
>but still the problem
>
>Hi. This is the qmail-send program at ns.asoban.bo.
>I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
>This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.
>
><lista3 at mydomain.bo>:
>vdeliver: Invalid or unknown virtual user 'lista3'

Since you've found the above script, you've probably seen the
information at http://www.list.org/mailman-install/qmail-issues.html.

Beyond this, you are more likely to find help for this issue from qmail
folks than from Mailman folks. See for example
http://cr.yp.to/lists.html#qmail.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From theall at tifaware.com  Tue Sep 13 01:35:13 2005
From: theall at tifaware.com (George A. Theall)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 19:35:13 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman with MHonArc
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc50509121459523c2927@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5b1c0dc50509121459523c2927@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050912233513.GA8584@tifaware.com>

On Mon, Sep 12, 2005 at 02:59:08PM -0700, Elvis Fernandes wrote:

>  Does anyone know if this mailman-MhonArc combination will work?

There are a couple of ways you can do this:

  - http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.004.htp
  - http://www.openinfo.co.uk/mm/index.html

I use Richard Barnett / OpenInfo's patches; they are easy to install
provided you follow the instructions and work perfectly. 

George
-- 
theall at tifaware.com
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From mdoughty at gmail.com  Tue Sep 13 01:58:07 2005
From: mdoughty at gmail.com (Matt Doughty)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 16:58:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe silently fails to moderated list
Message-ID: <6f43a0940509121658523930d5@mail.gmail.com>

I have a list where subscription fails if you use the email subscription 
interface. The list is moderated, but nothing shows up in the logs after the 
initial inject in the
sendmail logs. There is nothing in vette or subscribe, the request just 
disappears into the ether.

-- 
--Matt


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Sep 13 02:15:17 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 17:15:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe silently fails to moderated list
In-Reply-To: <6f43a0940509121658523930d5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005091217151704538d9b8416@msapiro>

Matt Doughty wrote:

>I have a list where subscription fails if you use the email subscription 
>interface. The list is moderated, but nothing shows up in the logs after the 
>initial inject in the
>sendmail logs. There is nothing in vette or subscribe, the request just 
>disappears into the ether.

Have you checked the alias for the -subscribe address?

What happens if you mail the -join address or send a subscribe command
to the -request address.

Have you checked the 'error' log?

If you do

bin/dumpdb lists/<listname>/pending.pck

do you see the pending confirmation?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Rich.West at wesmo.com  Tue Sep 13 02:30:02 2005
From: Rich.West at wesmo.com (Rich West)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 20:30:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman + Sendmail
Message-ID: <43261D8A.8060108@wesmo.com>

I've had mailman running for years and have only recently started having 
some delivery problems with it.  I originally chalked it up to a 
particular set of users within the one list that I am on (we host a 
bunch of lists for others), but, after some investigation, I have been 
unable to narrow down the source of the problem.

Essentially, we have users A, B, C, and D.  A&B have accounts local to 
the mailman/mail server and C&D have accounts elsewhere.  Now, when any 
user emails to the list, mailman receives the message, then spawns off 4 
(right now, I have "nodupes" deselected for everyone) messages in the 
sendmail queue.

If sendmail had just recently been started (aka: within the past 5 
minutes), the message will go through just fine.

However, in most cases, the messages (all with the same message ID) hang 
in the queue forever.. or, at least, until sendmail gets restarted at 
which time all of the messages get delivered.

At this point, one would say "It's sendmail", as did I.  I dug, and dug, 
but could not repeat the scenario without mailman in the loop.  I could 
send email to each user directly, I could create an alias called 'test' 
with each of the users in the alias, and then have any one of them mail 
to "test" to have it successfully send that out to everyone.

I looked in the logs on mailman, and saw nothing out of the ordinary.

I'm pretty much at a loss as to where else to turn.  I tried deleting 
the list and re-adding it, I tried deleting the list and creating one 
under a different name.. I tried upgrading to Mailman 2.1.6.  So far, 
everything is consistent.

I was thinking of trying to set mailman to send only one message per 
connection or something just to see if the other messages would process 
and just leave the hanging ones out there (not sure how to set this, 
though).

I searched the archives, too, but didn't have much luck there as I was 
not sure how to narrow down the search enough (I couldn't come up with 
good search terms).

Any ideas/help/pointers would be much appreciated!

Thanks!
-Rich


From Rich.West at wesmo.com  Tue Sep 13 03:13:37 2005
From: Rich.West at wesmo.com (Rich West)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 21:13:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman + Sendmail
In-Reply-To: <43261D8A.8060108@wesmo.com>
References: <43261D8A.8060108@wesmo.com>
Message-ID: <432627C1.7050900@wesmo.com>

I did some further analysis and discovered that the messages (with the 
same message ID) were showing up in the "ps" output as processing "from 
queue".  Digging a little further, I tried killing off the sendmail 
processes that were processing those requests, and I saw the following 
appear in the mailman log:
Sep 12 20:53:28 2005 (24387) Low level smtp error: (4, 'Interrupted 
system call'), msgid: <43262183.3010301 at wesmo.com>

So.. that got me thinking that Mailman was somehow not ending the 
connection properly OR that my sendmail install really didn't like 
handling multiple messages in one stream (I'm blanking as to why).  With 
all of that in mind, I set :
SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION = 1
MAX_DELIVERY_THREADS = 0
SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 1

And things started working.  Odd..

Now, I know that this is definitely NOT ideal or optimal.. But, what 
could be going wrong?  I tried reducing the 
SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION to "0" for my tests, and the problem 
crept back.  I moved that back to 1, then set SMTP_MAX_RCPTS to "0", and 
the problem crept back.  Only the config above seemed to work..

My mind is a jumbled mess thinking about this, but if anyone has any 
ideas.. I'm all ears. :)

-Rich

>I've had mailman running for years and have only recently started having 
>some delivery problems with it.  I originally chalked it up to a 
>particular set of users within the one list that I am on (we host a 
>bunch of lists for others), but, after some investigation, I have been 
>unable to narrow down the source of the problem.
>
>Essentially, we have users A, B, C, and D.  A&B have accounts local to 
>the mailman/mail server and C&D have accounts elsewhere.  Now, when any 
>user emails to the list, mailman receives the message, then spawns off 4 
>(right now, I have "nodupes" deselected for everyone) messages in the 
>sendmail queue.
>
>If sendmail had just recently been started (aka: within the past 5 
>minutes), the message will go through just fine.
>
>However, in most cases, the messages (all with the same message ID) hang 
>in the queue forever.. or, at least, until sendmail gets restarted at 
>which time all of the messages get delivered.
>
>At this point, one would say "It's sendmail", as did I.  I dug, and dug, 
>but could not repeat the scenario without mailman in the loop.  I could 
>send email to each user directly, I could create an alias called 'test' 
>with each of the users in the alias, and then have any one of them mail 
>to "test" to have it successfully send that out to everyone.
>
>I looked in the logs on mailman, and saw nothing out of the ordinary.
>
>I'm pretty much at a loss as to where else to turn.  I tried deleting 
>the list and re-adding it, I tried deleting the list and creating one 
>under a different name.. I tried upgrading to Mailman 2.1.6.  So far, 
>everything is consistent.
>
>I was thinking of trying to set mailman to send only one message per 
>connection or something just to see if the other messages would process 
>and just leave the hanging ones out there (not sure how to set this, 
>though).
>
>I searched the archives, too, but didn't have much luck there as I was 
>not sure how to narrow down the search enough (I couldn't come up with 
>good search terms).
>
>Any ideas/help/pointers would be much appreciated!
>
>Thanks!
>-Rich
>



From daevid at daevid.com  Tue Sep 13 03:45:18 2005
From: daevid at daevid.com (Daevid Vincent)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 18:45:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman stopped working after upgrade
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005091214055800158d9b8289@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20050913014533.272AD1E4006@bag.python.org>

> Yes, it has the flags, but what is the value of the ${MAILGID}
> parameter?  The error message you received says it's 'mailman' and
> should be 'mail'.
> 
> Your original post says:
> 
> >daevid portage-logs # ll /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
> >-rwxr-sr-x  1 mailman mailman 7768 Sep  7 11:34 
> /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
> 
> Thus, the wrapper was recompiled with the upgrade on Sep 7 and that's
> when things quit working so this is the likely cause.

# id mail
uid=8(mail) gid=12(mail) groups=12(mail),408(shadow)

# id mailman
uid=280(mailman) gid=280(mailman) groups=280(mailman),16(cron)

# ls -l /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
-rwxr-sr-x  1 mailman mailman 7768 Sep 12 15:47
/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman

I tried to emerge mailman again today just incase that helped. Same results.

daevid portage-logs # ll *mailman*
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 62662 Sep  7 11:34 3485-mailman-2.1.5-r4.log
-rw-r--r--  1 root root  1105 Sep  7 11:34 3486-mailman-2.1.5-r4.log
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 62663 Sep 12 15:47 3528-mailman-2.1.5-r4.log
-rw-r--r--  1 root root  1105 Sep 12 15:48 3529-mailman-2.1.5-r4.log

>From the .log file:

checking for --with-permcheck... yes
checking for --with-username... mailman
checking for user name "mailman"... okay
checking for --with-groupname... mailman
checking for group name "mailman"... okay
checking permissions on /usr/local/mailman... okay
checking for mail wrapper group; i.e. --with-mail-gid... mailman
checking for CGI wrapper group; i.e. --with-cgi-gid... apache

I am using Exim as my MTA BTW:

[ebuild   R   ] mail-mta/exim-4.50-r1  +X -dnsdb -exiscan -exiscan-acl +ipv6
-ldap -lmtp -mailwrapper -mbox +mysql -nis +pam +perl -postgres -sasl +ssl
-syslog +tcpd 1,401 kB 

But I don't believe that's changed since:

daevid portage-logs # ll *exim*
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 23369 Jul  7 00:57 3190-exim-4.50-r1.log
-rw-r--r--  1 root root   242 Jul  7 00:57 3191-exim-4.50-r1.log



From daevid at daevid.com  Tue Sep 13 03:54:39 2005
From: daevid at daevid.com (Daevid Vincent)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 18:54:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman stopped working after upgrade
In-Reply-To: <20050913014533.272AD1E4006@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <20050913015446.268331E4006@bag.python.org>

Mark said, "Yes, it has the flags, but what is the value of the ${MAILGID}
parameter?  The error message you received says it's 'mailman' and should be
'mail'." 

And looking at the log, he seems to be correct:
Sep 12 12:16:19 [Mailman mail-wrapper] Group mismatch error.  Mailman
expected the mail_wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman", but_the
system's mail server executed the mail script as_group "mail".  Try tweaking
the mail server to run the_script as group "mailman", or re-run configure,
_providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mail'._

But the .ebuild script sets it to gid 280, shouldn't it be 8? why is that?
Is that the problem? How can I fix that. Re-emerging doesn't let me change
those .ebuild values. MD5 errors and such.

APACHEGID="81"
MAILGID="280"

src_compile() {
        econf \
                --prefix=${INSTALLDIR} \
                --with-mail-gid=${MAILGID} \
                --with-cgi-gid=${APACHEGID} \
        || die "configure failed"

        make || die "make failed"
}  

# ll /etc/exim/exim.conf
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 29452 Apr 29 13:54 /etc/exim/exim.conf

  # User and group for Mailman, should match your --with-mail-gid
  # switch to Mailman's configure script.
  # Value is normally "mailman"
  MM_UID=mailman
  MM_GID=mailman

So, these match what the comment says there, and what the .ebuild is doing.

I'm so confused. *sigh* 




From msapiro at value.net  Tue Sep 13 04:58:33 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 19:58:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman stopped working after upgrade
In-Reply-To: <20050913015446.268331E4006@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402005091219583304687c88cc55@msapiro>

Daevid Vincent wrote:

>Mark said, "Yes, it has the flags, but what is the value of the ${MAILGID}
>parameter?  The error message you received says it's 'mailman' and should be
>'mail'." 
>
>And looking at the log, he seems to be correct:
>Sep 12 12:16:19 [Mailman mail-wrapper] Group mismatch error.  Mailman
>expected the mail_wrapper script to be executed as group "mailman", but_the
>system's mail server executed the mail script as_group "mail".  Try tweaking
>the mail server to run the_script as group "mailman", or re-run configure,
>_providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mail'._
>
>But the .ebuild script sets it to gid 280, shouldn't it be 8? why is that?
>Is that the problem? How can I fix that. Re-emerging doesn't let me change
>those .ebuild values. MD5 errors and such.
>
>APACHEGID="81"
>MAILGID="280"
>
>src_compile() {
>        econf \
>                --prefix=${INSTALLDIR} \
>                --with-mail-gid=${MAILGID} \
>                --with-cgi-gid=${APACHEGID} \
>        || die "configure failed"
>
>        make || die "make failed"
>}  
>
># ll /etc/exim/exim.conf
>-rw-r--r--  1 root root 29452 Apr 29 13:54 /etc/exim/exim.conf
>
>  # User and group for Mailman, should match your --with-mail-gid
>  # switch to Mailman's configure script.
>  # Value is normally "mailman"
>  MM_UID=mailman
>  MM_GID=mailman
>
>So, these match what the comment says there, and what the .ebuild is doing.
>
>I'm so confused. *sigh* 


As well you should be at this point. The wrapper is telling you that it
expects to be executed as group 'mailman', and it looks from what
you've presented that it was in fact built that way. It also seems you
can't change it in your update package.

The wrapper also complains that it is not being executed as group
'mailman', but rather as group 'mail'. This is the confusing part
because it seems from the above that you are telling Exim to invoke
the wrapper as group 'mailman' yet the wrapper is telling you it is
being invoked as group 'mail'. I would look carefully at the Exim
configuration to be sure that

  MM_UID=mailman
  MM_GID=mailman

are in the right place and are not being overridden somewhere else.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Sep 13 05:47:42 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 20:47:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman + Sendmail
In-Reply-To: <432627C1.7050900@wesmo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005091220474209067c88ce14@msapiro>

Rich West wrote:

>I did some further analysis and discovered that the messages (with the 
>same message ID) were showing up in the "ps" output as processing "from 
>queue".  Digging a little further, I tried killing off the sendmail 
>processes that were processing those requests, and I saw the following 
>appear in the mailman log:
>Sep 12 20:53:28 2005 (24387) Low level smtp error: (4, 'Interrupted 
>system call'), msgid: <43262183.3010301 at wesmo.com>


This could be normal if SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION = 0 since in
this case, Mailman (SMTPDirect) will never close the connection from
its side. However, the specific error message comes out of the
bulkdeliver() method which indicates Mailman is still involved in an
SMTP transaction. I.e., it is probably waiting for a response from
sendmail.


>So.. that got me thinking that Mailman was somehow not ending the 
>connection properly OR that my sendmail install really didn't like 
>handling multiple messages in one stream (I'm blanking as to why).


Or sendmail wasn't responding to the completion of the DATA command, or
...


>With 
>all of that in mind, I set :
>SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION = 1
>MAX_DELIVERY_THREADS = 0
>SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 1
>
>And things started working.  Odd..


Not so odd yet, I think.


>Now, I know that this is definitely NOT ideal or optimal.. But, what 
>could be going wrong?  I tried reducing the 
>SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION to "0" for my tests, and the problem 
>crept back.


Now I think it's odd, but what happens in this case right after
'mailmanctl restart'? Does it work for the first few mails and then
the problem comes back. If so, it could be that the problem only
occurs after a few transactions on an open connection.


>I moved that back to 1, then set SMTP_MAX_RCPTS to "0", and 
>the problem crept back.  Only the config above seemed to work..


Now this I too find puzzling.


>My mind is a jumbled mess thinking about this, but if anyone has any 
>ideas.. I'm all ears. :)


Setting SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION = 1 is not particularly
costly. It just means Mailman closes the SMTP connection after each
transaction and reopens it for the next transaction. This is not too
costly.

Setting MAX_DELIVERY_THREADS which appeared in 2.0 beta 3 appears to be
ignored in current versions. There are no references to it outside of
Defaults.py

Setting SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 1 may impact performance, but maybe not as
much as one would think. This list (mailman-users) uses personalized
delivery which amounts to the same thing (at least for regular as
opposed to digest deliveries). If you need SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 1, then
you've paid the price and you can VERP all deliveries (for better
bounce processing) and personalize your lists for essentially no extra
charge.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Sep 13 11:10:19 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:10:19 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman with MHonArc
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc50509121459523c2927@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5b1c0dc50509121459523c2927@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06200745bf4c47c2211d@[10.0.1.210]>

At 2:59 PM -0700 2005-09-12, Elvis Fernandes wrote:

>   I am trying to setup a discussion archival system, where the discussion
>  between users in a mail-list can be browsed on a webpage.
>  On searching the web, it seems like MhonArc can do this.

	Mailman includes a built-in web archive system called Pipermail. 
Depending on precisely what you need, this may provide all the 
functionality you require, without needing an external third-party 
archiving solution.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From csaba.kiraly at create-net.org  Tue Sep 13 12:26:49 2005
From: csaba.kiraly at create-net.org (Csaba Kiraly)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:26:49 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to receive all notifications and bounces
Message-ID: <4326A969.9050109@create-net.org>

Dear All,

I have a question regarding bounce processing. I was setting up a list
for a small group (~20 people) working together preparing documents, etc.
What I need is to receive immediate notifications if something goes
wrong, e.g. an e-mail address was mistyped when added, some delivery
errors, etc.

Looking at bounce processing, I have found options aiming at easing the
administrator's task by "filtering" out bounces. Even if I turn off
bounce processing, it is written that:
*bounce_processing* (bounce): Should Mailman perform automatic bounce
processing? By setting this value to /No/, you disable all automatic
bounce processing for this list, however bounce messages will still be
discarded so that the list administrator isn't inundated with them.

How can I set this up to receive immediate notifications?

Thanks, best regards,
Csaba Kiraly

-- 
=======================================
Csaba KIRALY
Researcher
CREATE-NET
Via Solteri, 38 - 38100 Trento - Italy
e-mail: csaba.kiraly at create-net.org
Tel: +39-0461-828584
Fax: +39-0461-421157
www.create-net.org
=======================================




From wash at wananchi.com  Tue Sep 13 12:59:45 2005
From: wash at wananchi.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:59:45 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] htdig integration broken after upgrade
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200509111200210171ea3f6ee0@msapiro>
References: <20050911140217.GB92281@ns2.wananchi.com>
	<PC1740200509111200210171ea3f6ee0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20050913105945.GA60491@ns2.wananchi.com>

* On 11/09/05 12:00 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> >
> >I recently upgraded a 2.1.3 install to 2.1.5 (along with
> >htdig-2.1.5-0.1.patch and indexing-2.1.5-0.1.patch) and now
> >htdig/archive searches are failing for the following error:
> >
> <snip>
> >
> >After the fixes, and after running the nightly_htdig script again as
> >the mailman user, searching the archives now gives a different error:
> >
> >ht://Dig error
> >Unable to read document index file
> >Did you run htmerge?
> >
> >..and in the ~mailman/logs/error, I see this now:
> >
> >Sep 11 16:42:57 2005 (23110) htsearch for list: theteam, existatus: 1
> >
> >At this point, I am surely an my /etc (end of thinking capaity) on this
> >problem. It's shifted goalpoasts ;)
> 
> 
> It looks like you may have either a permissions issue or maybe an
> incorrect value for HTDIG_CONF_LINK_DIR. See the Permissions
> Considerations and Local htdig Configuration sections in
> INSTALL.htdig-mm.html

Hi Mark,

I did consider all those, but perhaps I am just missing the point.
I have rechecked after your suggestions, but those seem to point to the
correct paths:

HTDIG_CONF_LINK_DIR = os.path.join(VAR_PREFIX, 'archives', 'htdig')
VAR_PREFIX= '/usr/local/mailman'

/usr/local/mailman/archives/htdig/ has those links.


Today, I have received the following message from mailman:

From: Cron Daemon <mailman at wananchi.com>
To: mailman at wananchi.com
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 02:19:08 +0300
Subject: Cron <mailman at ns2> /usr/local/bin/python -S
        /usr/local/mailman/cron/nightly_htdig

/usr/bin/sort: mkstemp error: Permission denied
htmerge: Word sort failed

/usr/bin/sort: mkstemp error: Permission denied
htmerge: Word sort failed


Could this be a good pointer to my problem?




        cheers
       - wash 
+----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
Odhiambo Washington            		. WANANCHI ONLINE LTD (Nairobi, KE)  |
wash () WANANCHI ! com			. 1ere Etage, Loita Hse, Loita St.,  |
GSM: (+254) 722 743 223			. # 10286, 00100 NAIROBI             |
GSM: (+254) 733 744 121			. (+254) 020 313 985 - 9             |
+---------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!"  
						 --from a /. post


From webmail at writehand.com  Tue Sep 13 13:45:18 2005
From: webmail at writehand.com (George Payne)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 06:45:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Passord protecting Mail List
Message-ID: <B0168162871@elk1.alaweb.com>

I have used Imail for a number of years.  I can't find where it tells how
the moderator uses their password to send and email.  Can you please help?

George Payne
Write Hand Publishing
105 Willow Drive
Andalusia, AL 36421
334 222-9212
 <mailto:webmail at writehand.com> webmail at writehand.com
 
<file:///C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\georgepayne\Application%20Data\Micros
oft\Signatures\www.writehand.com> www.writehand.com

 



From sythos at sythos.net  Tue Sep 13 13:53:54 2005
From: sythos at sythos.net (Sythos)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:53:54 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Passord protecting Mail List
In-Reply-To: <B0168162871@elk1.alaweb.com>
References: <B0168162871@elk1.alaweb.com>
Message-ID: <20050913115354.GB23959@sythos.net>

On Tue, Sep 13, 2005 at 06:45:18AM -0500, George Payne wrote:
> I have used Imail for a number of years.  I can't find where it tells how
> the moderator uses their password to send and email.  Can you please help?

When moderator receive notification about suspended email in moderated
list he should reply to namelist-request at yourdomain.tld with the subject
specified in notification and in the body only:
"Approved: listpasswordmoderator"

-- 

Sythos - http://www.sythos.net
  ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
  /\                        - against M$ attachments


From rtanner at linfield.edu  Tue Sep 13 18:25:06 2005
From: rtanner at linfield.edu (Rob Tanner)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:25:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem integrating v2.1.5 into the mail system
Message-ID: <4326FD62.9010109@linfield.edu>


I upgraded from Mailman 2.0.6 to 2.1.5, and I'm having a problem with 
the aliases.   My MTA is Postfix.

Here's my problem.  Our mail system uses the LDAP server for all the MTA 
required local aliases.  However, on the specific server hosting 
Mailman, I modified the following line in the Postfix main.cf file to 
include the Mailman aliases file:

       alias_database = 
dbm:/etc/postfix/aliases,dbm:/opt/mailman_2.1.5/data/aliases

Apart from hosting Mailman, that server is not part of our regular mail 
system.

When a message is sent to <listname>@linfield.edu, Postfix, on which 
ever one of the mail gateway servers that first sees the message, looks 
up the alias, and then using the mailroutingaddress attribute, re-routes 
the mail to <listname>@calvin.linfield.edu, which is the actual name of 
the host.  However, when the mail hits the Mailman server, Postfix 
reject it with the error:


     550 <<listname>@calvin.linfield.edu>: User unknown in local 
recipient table

The other pertinent setting in main.cf is:

     local_recipient_maps = $alias_maps, dbm:/opt/mailman_2.1.5/data/aliases

I've played extensively with the various Postfix parameters, and I've 
not been able to resolve this problem.  It probobly is a Postfix 
settings issue, and I'm hoping someone has had and resolved a similar issue.

Thanks,
Rob


-- 

Rob Tanner
UNIX Services Manager
Linfield College, McMinnville OR


From jdennis at redhat.com  Tue Sep 13 18:45:18 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:45:18 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem integrating v2.1.5 into the mail system
In-Reply-To: <4326FD62.9010109@linfield.edu>
References: <4326FD62.9010109@linfield.edu>
Message-ID: <1126629918.10980.10.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Tue, 2005-09-13 at 09:25 -0700, Rob Tanner wrote:
> I upgraded from Mailman 2.0.6 to 2.1.5, and I'm having a problem with 
> the aliases.   My MTA is Postfix.
> 
> Here's my problem.  Our mail system uses the LDAP server for all the MTA 
> required local aliases.  However, on the specific server hosting 
> Mailman, I modified the following line in the Postfix main.cf file to 
> include the Mailman aliases file:
> 
>        alias_database = 
> dbm:/etc/postfix/aliases,dbm:/opt/mailman_2.1.5/data/aliases
> 
> Apart from hosting Mailman, that server is not part of our regular mail 
> system.
> 
> When a message is sent to <listname>@linfield.edu, Postfix, on which 
> ever one of the mail gateway servers that first sees the message, looks 
> up the alias, and then using the mailroutingaddress attribute, re-routes 
> the mail to <listname>@calvin.linfield.edu, which is the actual name of 
> the host.  However, when the mail hits the Mailman server, Postfix 
> reject it with the error:
> 
> 
>      550 <<listname>@calvin.linfield.edu>: User unknown in local 
> recipient table
> 
> The other pertinent setting in main.cf is:
> 
>      local_recipient_maps = $alias_maps, dbm:/opt/mailman_2.1.5/data/aliases
> 
> I've played extensively with the various Postfix parameters, and I've 
> not been able to resolve this problem.  It probobly is a Postfix 
> settings issue, and I'm hoping someone has had and resolved a similar issue.

Here are some things to check:

In your main.cf file you've specified a file_type of dbm but I don't see
anything in your mail saying you've told Mailman's Postfix.py to use
that file format. Have you? It defaults to whatever is the default
database type in your postfix installation. You should verify the file
types are in fact in harmony with one another. You could take a look at
postfix error logging to see if its complaining or use the postmap
command to simulate the lookup.

Also, it looks like you're performing domain mapping when you re-route
to the primary server. If the alias lookup's include domain information
you may fail the local_recipient_maps lookup because although the user
part of the address is correct it may include a domain part not
recognized by the server fielding the request. I would use the postmap
command to simulate an alias lookup and see what is returned and make
sure domains are not part of the alias or if they are that they match.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From jwblist at olympus.net  Tue Sep 13 19:22:19 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:22:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman stopped working after upgrade
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005091219583304687c88cc55@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BF4C58DB.7E94%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 9/12/05 7:58 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> The wrapper is telling you that it
> expects to be executed as group 'mailman', and it looks from what
> you've presented that it was in fact built that way. It also seems you
> can't change it in your update package.
> 
> The wrapper also complains that it is not being executed as group
> 'mailman', but rather as group 'mail'. This is the confusing part
> because it seems from the above that you are telling Exim to invoke
> the wrapper as group 'mailman' yet the wrapper is telling you it is
> being invoked as group 'mail'. I would look carefully at the Exim
> configuration to be sure that
> 
>   MM_UID=mailman
>   MM_GID=mailman
> 
> are in the right place and are not being overridden somewhere else.

Has Exim lost its setuid bit (and/or its root ownership) in the upgrade?

  --John




From dpifer at odu.edu  Tue Sep 13 19:36:09 2005
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:36:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private archive for list
Message-ID: <1126632969.12381.23.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

I have been trying to get to the private archives of a list but 
when I click on the URL http://list.odu.edu/private/telephone_logs/
I get nothing on the page. I have been able to access other archives of
private lists but for some reason I am not seeing any for this list. I
have thought about trying this

bin/arch --wipe list-name

but I don't want to remove the archives. Is there anything I check for
or another script to run to find out if a file is corrupt?
Just to be sure, I checked that this list does have a mbox in
the archives/private/telephone_logs directory.

Darren
ODU



From ryanczak at arin.net  Tue Sep 13 19:44:27 2005
From: ryanczak at arin.net (Matt Ryanczak)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:44:27 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] patch to add date to each meassge in
	mail	archiveIndex
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200509121106520375b469a0cb@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200509121106520375b469a0cb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1126633467.20932.66.camel@otto.arin.net>

I submitted this patch to the sourceforge mailman site so it can now be
found there. I also updated the patch so that it will now update every
template (not just the English version). For convenience the patch is
also below (and attached to keep the proper breaks in some of the
template files)...

Regards,

-- 
Matt Ryanczak
American Registry for Internet Numbers
Lead System Administrator




--- mailman-2.1.6/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py	2005-05-13 07:35:37.000000000 -0400
+++ mailman-2.1.6/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py	2005-09-12 18:41:06.000000000 -0400
@@ -1024,6 +1024,7 @@
     def write_index_entry(self, article):
         subject = self.get_header("subject", article)
         author = self.get_header("author", article)
+        datestr = self.get_header("datestr", article)
         if mm_cfg.ARCHIVER_OBSCURES_EMAILADDRS:
             try:
                 author = re.sub('@', _(' at '), author)
@@ -1032,12 +1033,14 @@
                 pass
         subject = CGIescape(subject, self.lang)
         author = CGIescape(author, self.lang)
+        datestr = CGIescape(datestr, self.lang)
 
         d = {
             'filename': urllib.quote(article.filename),
             'subject':  subject,
             'sequence': article.sequence,
-            'author':   author
+            'author':   author,
+            'datestr':  datestr
         }
         print quick_maketext(
             'archidxentry.html', d,
--- mailman-2.1.6/templates/ca/archidxentry.html	2003-11-01 10:51:48.000000000 -0500
+++ mailman-2.1.6/templates/ca/archidxentry.html	2005-09-13 12:46:07.000000000 -0400
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-<LI><A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
+<LI>%(datestr)s&nbsp;<A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
 </A><A NAME="%(sequence)i">&nbsp;</A>
 <I>%(author)s
 </I>
--- mailman-2.1.6/templates/en/archidxentry.html	2002-10-08 12:50:41.000000000 -0400
+++ mailman-2.1.6/templates/en/archidxentry.html	2005-09-13 12:44:40.000000000 -0400
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-<LI><A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
+<LI>%(datestr)s&nbsp;%(datestr)s>&nbsp;<A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
 </A><A NAME="%(sequence)i">&nbsp;</A>
 <I>%(author)s
 </I>
--- mailman-2.1.6/templates/es/archidxentry.html	2005-05-20 09:28:23.000000000 -0400
+++ mailman-2.1.6/templates/es/archidxentry.html	2005-09-13 12:46:21.000000000 -0400
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-<LI><A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
+<LI>%(datestr)s&nbsp;<A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
 </A><A NAME="%(sequence)i">&nbsp;</A>
 <I>%(author)s
 </I>
--- mailman-2.1.6/templates/eu/archidxentry.html	2003-12-01 11:07:41.000000000 -0500
+++ mailman-2.1.6/templates/eu/archidxentry.html	2005-09-13 12:45:48.000000000 -0400
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-<LI><A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
+<LI>%(datestr)s&nbsp;<A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
 </A><A NAME="%(sequence)i">&nbsp;</A>
 <I>%(author)s
 </I>
--- mailman-2.1.6/templates/fr/archidxentry.html	2002-12-19 23:06:08.000000000 -0500
+++ mailman-2.1.6/templates/fr/archidxentry.html	2005-09-13 12:46:16.000000000 -0400
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-<li><a href="%(filename)s">%(subject)s 
+<li>%(datestr)s&nbsp;<a href="%(filename)s">%(subject)s 
 </a><a name="%(sequence)i">&nbsp;</a>
  <i>%(author)s 
 </i></li>
--- mailman-2.1.6/templates/hr/archidxentry.html	2003-11-30 18:04:02.000000000 -0500
+++ mailman-2.1.6/templates/hr/archidxentry.html	2005-09-13 12:44:50.000000000 -0400
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-<LI><A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
+<LI>%(datestr)s&nbsp;<A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
 </A><A NAME="%(sequence)i">&nbsp;</A>
 <I>%(author)s
 </I>
--- mailman-2.1.6/templates/hu/archidxentry.html	2002-12-11 22:30:15.000000000 -0500
+++ mailman-2.1.6/templates/hu/archidxentry.html	2005-09-13 12:44:58.000000000 -0400
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-<LI><A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
+<LI>%(datestr)s&nbsp;<A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
 </A><A NAME="%(sequence)i">&nbsp;</A>
 <I>%(author)s
 </I>
--- mailman-2.1.6/templates/it/archidxentry.html	2002-10-10 15:33:47.000000000 -0400
+++ mailman-2.1.6/templates/it/archidxentry.html	2005-09-13 12:45:35.000000000 -0400
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-<LI><A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
+<LI>%(datestr)s&nbsp;<A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
 </A><A NAME="%(sequence)i">&nbsp;</A>
 <I>%(author)s
 </I>
--- mailman-2.1.6/templates/ja/archidxentry.html	2002-10-08 12:50:42.000000000 -0400
+++ mailman-2.1.6/templates/ja/archidxentry.html	2005-09-13 12:45:27.000000000 -0400
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-<LI><A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
+<LI>%(datestr)s&nbsp;<A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
 </A><A NAME="%(sequence)i">&nbsp;</A>
 <I>%(author)s
 </I>
--- mailman-2.1.6/templates/lt/archidxentry.html	2002-12-24 14:05:13.000000000 -0500
+++ mailman-2.1.6/templates/lt/archidxentry.html	2005-09-13 12:45:09.000000000 -0400
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-<LI><A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
+<LI>%(datestr)s&nbsp;<A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
 </A><A NAME="%(sequence)i">&nbsp;</A>
 <I>%(author)s
 </I>
--- mailman-2.1.6/templates/pl/archidxentry.html	2003-04-20 00:52:59.000000000 -0400
+++ mailman-2.1.6/templates/pl/archidxentry.html	2005-09-13 12:45:40.000000000 -0400
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-<LI><A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
+<LI>%(datestr)s&nbsp;<A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
 </A><A NAME="%(sequence)i">&nbsp;</A>
 <I>%(author)s
 </I>
--- mailman-2.1.6/templates/pt/archidxentry.html	2003-04-09 01:09:01.000000000 -0400
+++ mailman-2.1.6/templates/pt/archidxentry.html	2005-09-13 12:45:03.000000000 -0400
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-<LI><A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
+<LI>%(datestr)s&nbsp;<A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
 </A><A NAME="%(sequence)i">&nbsp;</A>
 <I>%(author)s
 </I>
--- mailman-2.1.6/templates/pt_BR/archidxentry.html	2004-11-03 13:29:30.000000000 -0500
+++ mailman-2.1.6/templates/pt_BR/archidxentry.html	2005-09-13 12:45:31.000000000 -0400
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-<LI><A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
+<LI>%(datestr)s&nbsp;<A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
 </A><A NAME="%(sequence)i">&nbsp;</A>
 <I>%(author)s
 </I>
--- mailman-2.1.6/templates/ro/archidxentry.html	2003-12-13 11:35:53.000000000 -0500
+++ mailman-2.1.6/templates/ro/archidxentry.html	2005-09-13 12:45:52.000000000 -0400
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-<LI><A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
+<LI>%(datestr)s&nbsp;<A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
 </A><A NAME="%(sequence)i">&nbsp;</A>
 <I>%(author)s
 </I>
--- mailman-2.1.6/templates/ru/archidxentry.html	2002-10-10 20:43:36.000000000 -0400
+++ mailman-2.1.6/templates/ru/archidxentry.html	2005-09-13 12:45:59.000000000 -0400
@@ -1 +1 @@
-<LI><A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s</A><A NAME="%(sequence)i">&nbsp;</A><I>%(author)s</I>
+<LI>%(datestr)s&nbsp;<A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s</A><A NAME="%(sequence)i">&nbsp;</A><I>%(author)s</I>
--- mailman-2.1.6/templates/sl/archidxentry.html	2003-10-03 22:57:36.000000000 -0400
+++ mailman-2.1.6/templates/sl/archidxentry.html	2005-09-13 12:45:22.000000000 -0400
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-<LI><A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
+<LI>%(datestr)s&nbsp;<A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
 </A><A NAME="%(sequence)i">&nbsp;</A>
 <I>%(author)s
 </I>
--- mailman-2.1.6/templates/sr/archidxentry.html	2003-09-21 23:52:34.000000000 -0400
+++ mailman-2.1.6/templates/sr/archidxentry.html	2005-09-13 12:44:30.000000000 -0400
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-<LI><A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
+<LI>%(datestr)s&nbsp;<A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
 </A><A NAME="%(sequence)i">&nbsp;</A>
 <I>%(author)s
 </I>
--- mailman-2.1.6/templates/tr/archidxentry.html	2004-04-24 22:30:04.000000000 -0400
+++ mailman-2.1.6/templates/tr/archidxentry.html	2005-09-13 12:46:03.000000000 -0400
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-<LI><A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
+<LI>%(datestr)s&nbsp;<A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
 </A><A NAME="%(sequence)i">&nbsp;</A>
 <I>%(author)s
 </I>
--- mailman-2.1.6/templates/uk/archidxentry.html	2003-09-21 23:52:35.000000000 -0400
+++ mailman-2.1.6/templates/uk/archidxentry.html	2005-09-13 12:46:12.000000000 -0400
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-<LI><A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
+<LI>%(datestr)s&nbsp;<A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
 </A><A NAME="%(sequence)i">&nbsp;</A>
 <I>%(author)s
 </I>
--- mailman-2.1.6/templates/zh_CN/archidxentry.html	2005-04-07 00:21:35.000000000 -0400
+++ mailman-2.1.6/templates/zh_CN/archidxentry.html	2005-09-13 12:45:17.000000000 -0400
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-<LI><A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
+<LI>%(datestr)s&nbsp;<A HREF="%(filename)s">%(subject)s
 </A><A NAME="%(sequence)i">&nbsp;</A>
 <I>%(author)s
 </I>



From daevid at daevid.com  Tue Sep 13 20:33:27 2005
From: daevid at daevid.com (Daevid Vincent)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:33:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman stopped working after upgrade
In-Reply-To: <BF4C58DB.7E94%jwblist@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <20050913183330.C731E1E4002@bag.python.org>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: John W. Baxter
>
> Has Exim lost its setuid bit (and/or its root ownership) in 
> the upgrade?

Thanks for the suggestion John, but the perms look correct. Also, other
email works fine (incoming/outgoing). It's only mailman...

daevid ~ # which exim
/usr/sbin/exim

daevid ~ # ll /usr/sbin/exim
-rws--x--x  1 root root 830012 Jul  7 00:57 /usr/sbin/exim



From dpifer at odu.edu  Tue Sep 13 20:45:30 2005
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:45:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private archive for list
In-Reply-To: <1126632969.12381.23.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
References: <1126632969.12381.23.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <1126637130.12381.26.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20050913/81d82330/attachment.pot 

From daevid at daevid.com  Tue Sep 13 21:05:39 2005
From: daevid at daevid.com (Daevid Vincent)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:05:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman stopped working after upgrade
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005091219583304687c88cc55@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20050913190543.50A9E1E4003@bag.python.org>

> >Mark said, "Yes, it has the flags, but what is the value of 
> the ${MAILGID}
> >parameter?  The error message you received says it's 
> 'mailman' and should be
> >'mail'." 
> >
> >And looking at the log, he seems to be correct:
> >Sep 12 12:16:19 [Mailman mail-wrapper] Group mismatch error.  Mailman
> >expected the mail_wrapper script to be executed as group 
> "mailman", but_the
> >system's mail server executed the mail script as_group 
> "mail".  Try tweaking
> >the mail server to run the_script as group "mailman", or 
> re-run configure,
> >_providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=mail'._
> >
> >But the .ebuild script sets it to gid 280, shouldn't it be 
> 8? why is that?
> >Is that the problem? How can I fix that. Re-emerging doesn't 
> let me change
> >those .ebuild values. MD5 errors and such.
> >
> >APACHEGID="81"
> >MAILGID="280"
> >
> >src_compile() {
> >        econf \
> >                --prefix=${INSTALLDIR} \
> >                --with-mail-gid=${MAILGID} \
> >                --with-cgi-gid=${APACHEGID} \
> >        || die "configure failed"
> >
> >        make || die "make failed"
> >}  
> >
> ># ll /etc/exim/exim.conf
> >-rw-r--r--  1 root root 29452 Apr 29 13:54 /etc/exim/exim.conf
> >
> >  # User and group for Mailman, should match your --with-mail-gid
> >  # switch to Mailman's configure script.
> >  # Value is normally "mailman"
> >  MM_UID=mailman
> >  MM_GID=mailman
> >
> >So, these match what the comment says there, and what the 
> .ebuild is doing.
> >
> >I'm so confused. *sigh* 
> 
> 
> As well you should be at this point. The wrapper is telling 
> you that it
> expects to be executed as group 'mailman', and it looks from what
> you've presented that it was in fact built that way. It also seems you
> can't change it in your update package.
> 
> The wrapper also complains that it is not being executed as group
> 'mailman', but rather as group 'mail'. This is the confusing part
> because it seems from the above that you are telling Exim to invoke
> the wrapper as group 'mailman' yet the wrapper is telling you it is
> being invoked as group 'mail'. I would look carefully at the Exim
> configuration to be sure that
> 
>   MM_UID=mailman
>   MM_GID=mailman
> 
> are in the right place and are not being overridden somewhere else.

Below is portions of my /etc/exim/exim.conf. I deleted out any irrellevant
parts, but I kept everything in the right order... I believe it's pretty
much stock. (I don't know much about exim).

># cat /etc/exim/exim.conf

######################################################################
#                  Runtime configuration file for Exim               #
######################################################################


#
# copied from http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html#exconf
#
  # Home dir for your Mailman installation -- aka Mailman's prefix
directory.
  # By default this is set to "/usr/local/mailman"
  # On a Red Hat/Fedora system using the RPM use "/var/mailman"
  # On Debian using the deb package use "/var/lib/mailman"
  # This is normally the same as ~mailman
  MM_HOME=/usr/local/mailman
  #
  # User and group for Mailman, should match your --with-mail-gid
  # switch to Mailman's configure script.
  # Value is normally "mailman"
  MM_UID=mailman
  MM_GID=mailman
  #
  # Domains that your lists are in - colon separated list
  # you may wish to add these into local_domains as well
  domainlist
mm_domains=daevid.com:rollinballzcrew.com:me-racing.com:marq.org
  #
  # -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  #
  # These values are derived from the ones above and should not need
  # editing unless you have munged your mailman installation
  #
  # The path of the Mailman mail wrapper script
  MM_WRAP=MM_HOME/mail/mailman
  #
  # The path of the list config file (used as a required file when
  # verifying list addresses)
  MM_LISTCHK=MM_HOME/lists/${lc::$local_part}/config.pck


######################################################################
#                    MAIN CONFIGURATION SETTINGS                     #
######################################################################

exim_user = mail

######################################################################
#                      ROUTERS CONFIGURATION                         #
#               Specifies how addresses are handled                  #
######################################################################
#     THE ORDER IN WHICH THE ROUTERS ARE DEFINED IS IMPORTANT!       #
# An address is passed to each router in turn until it is accepted.  #
######################################################################

mailman_router:
    driver = accept
    domains = +mm_domains
    require_files = MM_LISTCHK
    local_part_suffix_optional
    local_part_suffix = -admin : \
        -bounces   : -bounces+* : \
        -confirm   : -confirm+* : \
        -join      : -leave : \
        -owner     : -request : \
        -subscribe : -unsubscribe
    transport = mailman_transport

procmail:
  debug_print = "R: procmail for $local_part@$domain"
  driver = accept
  check_local_user
  transport = procmail_pipe
  require_files = ${local_part}:${home}/.procmailrc:+/usr/bin/procmail
  no_verify
  no_expn

userforward:
  driver = redirect
  check_local_user
# local_part_suffix = +* : -*
# local_part_suffix_optional
  file = $home/.forward
# allow_filter
  no_verify
  no_expn
  check_ancestor
  file_transport = address_file
  pipe_transport = address_pipe
  reply_transport = address_reply

localuser:
  driver = accept
  check_local_user
# local_part_suffix = +* : -*
# local_part_suffix_optional
  transport = local_delivery
  cannot_route_message = Unknown user


######################################################################
#                      TRANSPORTS CONFIGURATION                      #
######################################################################
#                       ORDER DOES NOT MATTER                        #
#     Only one appropriate transport is called for each delivery.    #
######################################################################

mailman_transport:
    driver = pipe
    command = MM_WRAP \
              '${if def:local_part_suffix \
                    {${sg{$local_part_suffix}{-(\\w+)(\\+.*)?}{\$1}}} \
                    {post}}' \
              $local_part
    current_directory = MM_HOME
    home_directory = MM_HOME
    user = MM_UID
    group = MM_GID

# End of Exim configuration file





From jdennis at redhat.com  Tue Sep 13 21:17:36 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:17:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman stopped working after upgrade
In-Reply-To: <20050913183330.C731E1E4002@bag.python.org>
References: <20050913183330.C731E1E4002@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <1126639056.10980.30.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Tue, 2005-09-13 at 11:33 -0700, Daevid Vincent wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John W. Baxter
> >
> > Has Exim lost its setuid bit (and/or its root ownership) in 
> > the upgrade?
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion John, but the perms look correct. Also, other
> email works fine (incoming/outgoing). It's only mailman...
> 
> daevid ~ # which exim
> /usr/sbin/exim
> 
> daevid ~ # ll /usr/sbin/exim
> -rws--x--x  1 root root 830012 Jul  7 00:57 /usr/sbin/exim

I doubt it can just be mailman. It's failing in the mail wrapper which
calls getgid() to get the group its being executed as. Mailman is simply
reporting the facts, which is it is not being executed as the group it
was intended to be executed as. In your configuration it is exim that is
executing mailman wrapper, thus it is exim that needs looking at. Also,
please note the error concerns group id not the user id. The error
reported says exim executed the mail wrapper as the group "mail" when it
expected it to be group "mailman". This means exim invoked the wrapper
in the "mail" group. Sorry, I'm not an exim user so I can't tell you the
particulars of exim, but I suspect there is an option when executing the
mailman wrapper to elect the group in addition to the user (its the
group thats important). 

Also, its not the setuid or setgid bit of exim that's relevant in this
case, that says when that exim executable is run, ignore who is invoking
me and run as this user or group instead. Which for exim when invoking
mailman on your behalf is not relevant (and may not even be desirable),
what is relevant is that when exim invokes the mailman wrapper it calls
setgid("mailman") (I'm playing a little loose and fast here, but thats
the idea in a nutshell). This probably only happens via an exim
configuration parameter tied to mailman invocation.

HTH,
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From elvisfern at gmail.com  Tue Sep 13 21:18:19 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:18:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman with MHonArc
In-Reply-To: <20050913114109.GA31202@tifaware.com>
References: <5b1c0dc50509121459523c2927@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050912233513.GA8584@tifaware.com>
	<5b1c0dc505091217013920ea94@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050913114109.GA31202@tifaware.com>
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc5050913121863f4c478@mail.gmail.com>

All,
 Thanks for all yur help!
One more question:
I want to delete off a few old mailing lists.
I read the instructions at:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.031.htp
 On checking, I did not the variable OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS in 
the /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py file.
 Is there a simple way to delete off the old mail lists. I not not need to 
archive any data from these old lists.
 Thanks
Elvis
 On 9/13/05, George A. Theall <theall at tifaware.com> wrote: 
> 
> > I guess my question is:
> > After using mhonarc to convert the inbox to html's, how do I get to 
> browse
> > them using internet explorer?
> 
> Mailman makes archives available using a URL such as:
> 
> http://$hostname/mailman/private/$listname/
> 
> If the list defined a public, then replace 'private' with 'public'
> above.
> 
> George
> --
> theall at tifaware.com
> 
> 
>


From jdennis at redhat.com  Tue Sep 13 21:29:21 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:29:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman stopped working after upgrade
In-Reply-To: <20050913190543.50A9E1E4003@bag.python.org>
References: <20050913190543.50A9E1E4003@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <1126639761.10980.40.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Tue, 2005-09-13 at 12:05 -0700, Daevid Vincent wrote:
>   # User and group for Mailman, should match your --with-mail-gid
>   # switch to Mailman's configure script.
>   # Value is normally "mailman"
>   MM_UID=mailman
>   MM_GID=mailman
>   #
>   # Domains that your lists are in - colon separated list
>   # you may wish to add these into local_domains as well
>   domainlist
> mm_domains=daevid.com:rollinballzcrew.com:me-racing.com:marq.org
>   #
>   # -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>   #
>   # These values are derived from the ones above and should not need
>   # editing unless you have munged your mailman installation
>   #
>   # The path of the Mailman mail wrapper script
>   MM_WRAP=MM_HOME/mail/mailman

Caveat: I don't know exim! But the above does suggest to me that when it
invokes MM_WRAP=MM_HOME/mail/mailman will do it as uid=mailman,
gid=mailman (because it calls setgid(mailman), is exim running with root
privileges? it can't change the group if its not). BUT the mailman
wrapper is telling you that is not what is happening, its being executed
as group mail.

> 
> ######################################################################
> #                    MAIN CONFIGURATION SETTINGS                     #
> ######################################################################
> 
> exim_user = mail

hmm... very suspicious, looks like this is what is being picked up as
the execution context.


-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From jaf19 at earthlink.net  Tue Sep 13 22:10:17 2005
From: jaf19 at earthlink.net (jaf19)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:10:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman with MHonArc
In-Reply-To: <p06200745bf4c47c2211d@10.0.1.210>
References: <5b1c0dc50509121459523c2927@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06200745bf4c47c2211d@10.0.1.210>
Message-ID: <6c9bd37b05091313102ad524ae@mail.gmail.com>

To me, the problem with Pipermail is not what it does, but what it doesn't 
do.

Pipermail doesn't allow you to reverse the order of the postings, so readers 
have to scroll to the bottom of what is, in many cases, a large archive, 
doesn't show the name of the person posting, and doesn't date or date sort 
the entries. 

I too am looking at MhonArc as a possible solution, to work in tandem with 
Mailman, but am not proficient enough to install or configure. I'd like to 
hire someone for the task, if that is possible?

JF

On 9/13/05, Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote:
> 
> At 2:59 PM -0700 2005-09-12, Elvis Fernandes wrote:
> 
> > I am trying to setup a discussion archival system, where the discussion
> > between users in a mail-list can be browsed on a webpage.
> > On searching the web, it seems like MhonArc can do this.
> 
> Mailman includes a built-in web archive system called Pipermail.
> Depending on precisely what you need, this may provide all the
> functionality you require, without needing an external third-party
> archiving solution.
> 
> --
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
> 
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
> 
> -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
> Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
> 
> SAGE member since 1995. See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jaf19%40earthlink.net
> 
> Security Policy: 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 



-- 
Jim Flanagan


From willym at verizon.net  Tue Sep 13 23:58:59 2005
From: willym at verizon.net (Bill Morse)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:58:59 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to make attached jpg show in message body
Message-ID: <BF4CC3E3.8E688%willym@verizon.net>

Is there any way to make an image show in the body of a message to the list.
When I attach an image in entourage, the image displays in the body of the
message. When I attach an image to a list message, it only is listed in the
attachments area.

Thanks

Bill Morse

Wm. Morse Editions
450 Harrison Ave. Studio 227
Boston, MA 02118
(617) 429-3298

 www.MorseEditions.com

PS- Please note new email and web address



From rtanner at linfield.edu  Wed Sep 14 00:48:24 2005
From: rtanner at linfield.edu (Rob Tanner)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:48:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem integrating v2.1.5 into the mail system
In-Reply-To: <1126629918.10980.10.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
References: <4326FD62.9010109@linfield.edu>
	<1126629918.10980.10.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <43275738.4050008@linfield.edu>

Cockpit error on my part.  Your suggestions ended up pointing me right 
to it.

Thanks,
Rob

John Dennis said the following on 09/13/2005 09:45 AM:

>On Tue, 2005-09-13 at 09:25 -0700, Rob Tanner wrote:
>  
>
>>I upgraded from Mailman 2.0.6 to 2.1.5, and I'm having a problem with 
>>the aliases.   My MTA is Postfix.
>>
>>Here's my problem.  Our mail system uses the LDAP server for all the MTA 
>>required local aliases.  However, on the specific server hosting 
>>Mailman, I modified the following line in the Postfix main.cf file to 
>>include the Mailman aliases file:
>>
>>       alias_database = 
>>dbm:/etc/postfix/aliases,dbm:/opt/mailman_2.1.5/data/aliases
>>
>>Apart from hosting Mailman, that server is not part of our regular mail 
>>system.
>>
>>When a message is sent to <listname>@linfield.edu, Postfix, on which 
>>ever one of the mail gateway servers that first sees the message, looks 
>>up the alias, and then using the mailroutingaddress attribute, re-routes 
>>the mail to <listname>@calvin.linfield.edu, which is the actual name of 
>>the host.  However, when the mail hits the Mailman server, Postfix 
>>reject it with the error:
>>
>>
>>     550 <<listname>@calvin.linfield.edu>: User unknown in local 
>>recipient table
>>
>>The other pertinent setting in main.cf is:
>>
>>     local_recipient_maps = $alias_maps, dbm:/opt/mailman_2.1.5/data/aliases
>>
>>I've played extensively with the various Postfix parameters, and I've 
>>not been able to resolve this problem.  It probobly is a Postfix 
>>settings issue, and I'm hoping someone has had and resolved a similar issue.
>>    
>>
>
>Here are some things to check:
>
>In your main.cf file you've specified a file_type of dbm but I don't see
>anything in your mail saying you've told Mailman's Postfix.py to use
>that file format. Have you? It defaults to whatever is the default
>database type in your postfix installation. You should verify the file
>types are in fact in harmony with one another. You could take a look at
>postfix error logging to see if its complaining or use the postmap
>command to simulate the lookup.
>
>Also, it looks like you're performing domain mapping when you re-route
>to the primary server. If the alias lookup's include domain information
>you may fail the local_recipient_maps lookup because although the user
>part of the address is correct it may include a domain part not
>recognized by the server fielding the request. I would use the postmap
>command to simulate an alias lookup and see what is returned and make
>sure domains are not part of the alias or if they are that they match.
>  
>

-- 

Rob Tanner
UNIX Services Manager
Linfield College, McMinnville OR


From daevid at daevid.com  Wed Sep 14 00:52:56 2005
From: daevid at daevid.com (Daevid Vincent)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:52:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman stopped working after upgrade
In-Reply-To: <1126639056.10980.30.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <20050913225301.83F2D1E4002@bag.python.org>

> > > From: John W. Baxter
> > daevid ~ # which exim
> > /usr/sbin/exim
> > 
> > daevid ~ # ll /usr/sbin/exim
> > -rws--x--x  1 root root 830012 Jul  7 00:57 /usr/sbin/exim
> 
> I doubt it can just be mailman. 

Well, exim hasn't changed since that date above, and the config hasn't
changed for even longer, so I believe it *is* mailman and not exim:

# ll
total 80
drwxr-xr-x   2 root root  4096 Jun 26 12:45 .
drwxr-xr-x  77 root root  4096 Sep 13 03:14 ..
-rw-r--r--   1 root root   775 Jul  7 00:57 auth_conf.sub
-rw-r--r--   1 root root 29452 Apr 29 13:54 exim.conf
-rw-r--r--   1 root root 25931 Jul  7 00:57 exim.conf.dist
-rw-r--r--   1 root root  8120 Jul  7 00:57 system_filter.exim

Mailman WAS working just fine until September 7th, when I updated it.

# ll /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
-rwxr-sr-x  1 mailman mailman 7768 Sep  7 11:34
/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman



From willym at verizon.net  Wed Sep 14 01:05:52 2005
From: willym at verizon.net (Bill Morse)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 19:05:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to make attached jpg show in message body
Message-ID: <BF4CD390.8E6AE%willym@verizon.net>

Is there any way to make an image show in the body of a message to the list.
When I attach an image in entourage, the image displays in the body of the
message. When I attach an image to a list message, it only is listed in the
attachments area.

Thanks

Bill Morse

Wm. Morse Editions
450 Harrison Ave. Studio 227
Boston, MA 02118
(617) 429-3298

 www.MorseEditions.com

PS- Please note new email and web address



From elvisfern at gmail.com  Wed Sep 14 01:09:16 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 16:09:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Complettly delete unused mailing lists
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc50509131609731170da@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
  I want to delete off a few old mailing lists.
I read the instructions at:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.031.htp
 On checking, I did not the variable OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS in 
the /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py file.
 Is there a simple way to delete off the old mail lists. I do not need to 
archive any data from these old lists.
 Thanks
Elvis


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Sep 14 03:19:20 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:19:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to receive all notifications and bounces
In-Reply-To: <4326A969.9050109@create-net.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509131819200515c9075357@msapiro>

Csaba Kiraly wrote:
>
>I have a question regarding bounce processing. I was setting up a list
>for a small group (~20 people) working together preparing documents, etc.
>What I need is to receive immediate notifications if something goes
>wrong, e.g. an e-mail address was mistyped when added, some delivery
>errors, etc.
>
>Looking at bounce processing, I have found options aiming at easing the
>administrator's task by "filtering" out bounces. Even if I turn off
>bounce processing, it is written that:
>*bounce_processing* (bounce): Should Mailman perform automatic bounce
>processing? By setting this value to /No/, you disable all automatic
>bounce processing for this list, however bounce messages will still be
>discarded so that the list administrator isn't inundated with them.
>
>How can I set this up to receive immediate notifications?

If you have site administration capability over your Mailman
installation and the incoming MTA, you can set the alias for the
listname-bounces address so it forwards to you directly.

If not, or if you still want automated processing, set the following
bounce processing options.

bounce_processing Yes
bounce_score_threshold 0.5
bounce_info_stale_after won't matter - default 7 is OK
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings - default is OK
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval - default is OK
	
Notifications
bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner Yes
Sbounce_notify_owner_on_disable Yes
bounce_notify_owner_on_removal Yes

With settings like these, the first bounce will disable the
subscription and the owner will be notified and the notification will
contain a copy of the bounce message. The key is having the
notifications turned on and the bounce_score_threshold low enough that
the first bounce causes a disable.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Rich.West at wesmo.com  Wed Sep 14 03:51:47 2005
From: Rich.West at wesmo.com (Rich West)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:51:47 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman + Sendmail
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005091220474209067c88ce14@msapiro> 
References: <PC17402005091220474209067c88ce14@msapiro> 
Message-ID: <43278233.6000608@wesmo.com>

  Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Rich West wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I did some further analysis and discovered that the messages (with the 
>>same message ID) were showing up in the "ps" output as processing "from 
>>queue".  Digging a little further, I tried killing off the sendmail 
>>processes that were processing those requests, and I saw the following 
>>appear in the mailman log:
>>Sep 12 20:53:28 2005 (24387) Low level smtp error: (4, 'Interrupted 
>>system call'), msgid: <43262183.3010301 at wesmo.com>
>>    
>>
>
>
>This could be normal if SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION = 0 since in
>this case, Mailman (SMTPDirect) will never close the connection from
>its side. However, the specific error message comes out of the
>bulkdeliver() method which indicates Mailman is still involved in an
>SMTP transaction. I.e., it is probably waiting for a response from
>sendmail.
>  
>

Ahh.. now that makes sense.

>
>>With 
>>all of that in mind, I set :
>>SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION = 1
>>MAX_DELIVERY_THREADS = 0
>>SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 1
>>
>>And things started working.  Odd..
>>    
>>
>
>
>Not so odd yet, I think.
>
>
>  
>
>>Now, I know that this is definitely NOT ideal or optimal.. But, what 
>>could be going wrong?  I tried reducing the 
>>SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION to "0" for my tests, and the problem 
>>crept back.
>>    
>>
>
>
>Now I think it's odd, but what happens in this case right after
>'mailmanctl restart'? Does it work for the first few mails and then
>the problem comes back. If so, it could be that the problem only
>occurs after a few transactions on an open connection.
>  
>

Yes, it works for the first few mails and then the problem re-appears.

>  
>
>>I moved that back to 1, then set SMTP_MAX_RCPTS to "0", and 
>>the problem crept back.  Only the config above seemed to work..
>>    
>>
>
>
>Now this I too find puzzling.
>
>
>
>Setting SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION = 1 is not particularly
>costly. It just means Mailman closes the SMTP connection after each
>transaction and reopens it for the next transaction. This is not too
>costly.
>
>Setting SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 1 may impact performance, but maybe not as
>much as one would think. This list (mailman-users) uses personalized
>delivery which amounts to the same thing (at least for regular as
>opposed to digest deliveries). If you need SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 1, then
>you've paid the price and you can VERP all deliveries (for better
>bounce processing) and personalize your lists for essentially no extra
>charge.
>

Well, I wanted to go back to using VERP anyhow, so I guess this is a 
good thing (in a way).  Everything is processing now, and, while these 
are mostly low-volume lists, there doesn't seem to be any noticable 
performance hit.

Thanks for your help!

-Rich




From samwise-gamgee at web.de  Wed Sep 14 04:11:22 2005
From: samwise-gamgee at web.de (Sam Gamgee)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 04:11:22 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] config.pck, apache, permissions and Errno 13
Message-ID: <200509140411.24382.samwise-gamgee@web.de>

hello everyone,

I am writing this e-mail as a sort of last resort. Believe me I've tried hard, 
but can't find a solution to the following problem.

-I installed mailman on a debian server with postfix.

-all mailing lists work.

-webinterface works.

now, whenever the cronscripts run, or somebody sends a mail over one of the 
lists, the permissions of some file (usually something like: 
"/var/lib/mailman/lists/listname/config.pck") will change from www:mailman to 
mailman:mailman.

after this happens, I can no longer access the web-interface.
The result:

Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5
We're sorry, we hit a bug!
If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of this 
page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what happened. 
Thanks! 
Traceback:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
    main()
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 47, in main
    mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 128, in __init__
    self.Load()
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 593, in Load
    dict, e = self.__load(file)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 559, in __load
    fp = open(dbfile)
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 
'/var/lib/mailman/lists/listname/config.pck'



I tried many things including:

I have tried forcing the permissions by doing a chmod u+s. that didn't work
>ls -l
>drwsrwsr-x    6 www-data mailman      4096 Sep  9 01:11 listname


I tried to change 
MAILMAN_USER = 'www-data'
in 
/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
but this resulted in a
Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.


I was then thorougly confused by suexec stuff 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=recent&days=365250
-see "6.17. Apache+Suexec"

one the one hand, this suggests I should run everything as mailman:mailman and 
on the other hand I am warned strongly against this in the mailman 
installation docs. not to mention that the apache docs concerning suexec are 
daunting. well as apache doc are ;-)


and DON'T tell me to run check_perms!
*grin*


so now here is my question:
can anybody help me?



thank you
aron





From sythos at sythos.net  Wed Sep 14 08:15:08 2005
From: sythos at sythos.net (Sythos)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:15:08 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] config.pck, apache, permissions and Errno 13
In-Reply-To: <200509140411.24382.samwise-gamgee@web.de>
References: <200509140411.24382.samwise-gamgee@web.de>
Message-ID: <20050914061508.GA652@sythos.net>

On Wed, Sep 14, 2005 at 04:11:22AM +0200, Sam Gamgee wrote:
> -I installed mailman on a debian server with postfix.

>From debian mailman package or from source?


-- 

Sythos - http://www.sythos.net
  ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
  /\                        - against M$ attachments


From samwise-gamgee at web.de  Wed Sep 14 16:08:14 2005
From: samwise-gamgee at web.de (Sam Gamgee)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:08:14 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] config.pck, apache, permissions and Errno 13
In-Reply-To: <20050914061508.GA652@sythos.net>
References: <200509140411.24382.samwise-gamgee@web.de>
	<20050914061508.GA652@sythos.net>
Message-ID: <200509141608.15952.samwise-gamgee@web.de>

On Wednesday 14 September 2005 08:15, Sythos wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 14, 2005 at 04:11:22AM +0200, Sam Gamgee wrote:
> > -I installed mailman on a debian server with postfix.
> >
> >From debian mailman package or from source?

I'm sorry I was mistaken earlier. It's a ubuntu server and not debian.
I installed the mailman package first. Here however I received:

<QUOTE>
Command output: Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper 
script to be executed as group "daemon", but the system's mail server 
executed the mail script as group "mailman".  Try tweaking the mail server to 
run the script as group "daemon", or re-run configure,  providing the command 
line option `--with-mail-gid=mailman'. 
</QUOTe>

I then installed from source with the "--with-mail-gid=mailman" option. 
Thats the situation I'm in now -> I can mail, but I can't use the web 
interface properly.


aron


From wash at wananchi.com  Wed Sep 14 17:05:12 2005
From: wash at wananchi.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 18:05:12 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] nightly_htdig errors after upgrade
Message-ID: <20050914150512.GA95618@ns2.wananchi.com>

Hello everyone,

I am _almost_ at my wits end on this. I just cannot figure out why the
permissions are denied.

This is what comes up every night after the upgrade, even though my
mailman setup seems to be working okay.

From: Cron Daemon <mailman at DOMAIN>
To: mailman at DOMAIN
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 02:19:13 +0300
Subject: Cron <mailman at ns2> /usr/local/bin/python -S
	/usr/local/mailman/cron/nightly_htdig

/usr/bin/sort: mkstemp error: Permission denied
htmerge: Word sort failed

/usr/bin/sort: mkstemp error: Permission denied
htmerge: Word sort failed

/usr/bin/sort: mkstemp error: Permission denied
htmerge: Word sort failed

/usr/bin/sort: mkstemp error: Permission denied
htmerge: Word sort failed



        cheers
       - wash 
+----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
Odhiambo Washington            		. WANANCHI ONLINE LTD (Nairobi, KE)  |
wash () WANANCHI ! com			. 1ere Etage, Loita Hse, Loita St.,  |
GSM: (+254) 722 743 223			. # 10286, 00100 NAIROBI             |
GSM: (+254) 733 744 121			. (+254) 020 313 985 - 9             |
+---------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!"  
						 --from a /. post


From jdennis at redhat.com  Wed Sep 14 17:15:28 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:15:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] config.pck, apache, permissions and Errno 13
In-Reply-To: <200509141608.15952.samwise-gamgee@web.de>
References: <200509140411.24382.samwise-gamgee@web.de>
	<20050914061508.GA652@sythos.net>
	<200509141608.15952.samwise-gamgee@web.de>
Message-ID: <1126710928.12545.2.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Wed, 2005-09-14 at 16:08 +0200, Sam Gamgee wrote:
> I then installed from source with the "--with-mail-gid=mailman" option. 
> Thats the situation I'm in now -> I can mail, but I can't use the web 
> interface properly.

What did you specify as --with-cgi-gid? Both mail and cgi have to line
up with how your MTA and web server respectively execute sub-programs.

Also, being a bit more specific with how the web interface is not
working properly would help solve your problem.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Sep 14 18:16:56 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:16:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] nightly_htdig errors after upgrade
In-Reply-To: <20050914150512.GA95618@ns2.wananchi.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020050914091656009392c62f35@msapiro>

Odhiambo Washington wrote:
>
>I am _almost_ at my wits end on this. I just cannot figure out why the
>permissions are denied.
>
>This is what comes up every night after the upgrade, even though my
>mailman setup seems to be working okay.
>
>From: Cron Daemon <mailman at DOMAIN>
>To: mailman at DOMAIN
>Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 02:19:13 +0300
>Subject: Cron <mailman at ns2> /usr/local/bin/python -S
>	/usr/local/mailman/cron/nightly_htdig
>
>/usr/bin/sort: mkstemp error: Permission denied
>htmerge: Word sort failed
>
>/usr/bin/sort: mkstemp error: Permission denied
>htmerge: Word sort failed
>
>/usr/bin/sort: mkstemp error: Permission denied
>htmerge: Word sort failed
>
>/usr/bin/sort: mkstemp error: Permission denied
>htmerge: Word sort failed

This problem is with htdig, not Mailman. The
/usr/local/mailman/cron/nightly_htdig script calls the command in
HTDIG_RUNDIG_PATH (rundig) and that in turn apparently calls htmerge
which calls sort which attempts to create a unique temporary file
using mkstemp and that fails for lack of permission.

What happens if you try to run sort stand alone as the mailman user?
What happens if you try to run rundig (rundig -c <some .conf file>) as
the mailman user?

If you've done all the things in the Permissions Considerations/htdig
section of the INSTALL.htdig-mm document, and you still have this
problem, all I can suggest is that you try running things stand-alone
as the mailman user to try to narrow down the problem.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jdennis at redhat.com  Wed Sep 14 19:29:14 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 13:29:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] config.pck, apache, permissions and Errno 13
In-Reply-To: <200509141845.26303.samwise-gamgee@web.de>
References: <200509140411.24382.samwise-gamgee@web.de>
	<200509141741.37103.samwise-gamgee@web.de>
	<1126714911.12545.19.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
	<200509141845.26303.samwise-gamgee@web.de>
Message-ID: <1126718954.12545.27.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Wed, 2005-09-14 at 18:45 +0200, Sam Gamgee wrote:
> yes I have run check_perms several times.
> I often get wrong group errors such as:
> 
> /var/lib/mailman/logs/qrunner bad group (has: list, expected mailman)
> /var/lib/mailman/logs/smtp bad group (has: list, expected mailman)
> 
> I don't know what keep causing these, but so far they don't seem to have any 
> negative effects.

If check_perms is reporting problems you've got problems you need to
fix. By default check_perms only reports problems, it does not fix them,
to fix them you need to supply the -f argument.

If your cgi wrappers are not group mailman then its setgid property is
not going to work the way you expect. For instance if its group "list"
then its going to execute as group "list" and the fact the files it
references are -rw-rw---- mailman:mailman won't help because they are
not in the group "list". Make sense?
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From samwise-gamgee at web.de  Wed Sep 14 19:46:20 2005
From: samwise-gamgee at web.de (Sam Gamgee)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 19:46:20 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] config.pck, apache, permissions and Errno 13
In-Reply-To: <1126718954.12545.27.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
References: <200509140411.24382.samwise-gamgee@web.de>
	<200509141845.26303.samwise-gamgee@web.de>
	<1126718954.12545.27.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <200509141946.22695.samwise-gamgee@web.de>

On Wednesday 14 September 2005 19:29, you wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-09-14 at 18:45 +0200, Sam Gamgee wrote:
> > yes I have run check_perms several times.
> > I often get wrong group errors such as:
> >
> > /var/lib/mailman/logs/qrunner bad group (has: list, expected mailman)
> > /var/lib/mailman/logs/smtp bad group (has: list, expected mailman)
> >
> > I don't know what keep causing these, but so far they don't seem to have
> > any negative effects.
>
> If check_perms is reporting problems you've got problems you need to
> fix. By default check_perms only reports problems, it does not fix them,
> to fix them you need to supply the -f argument.
yes yes yes. I know that.
but the results are not permanent. My problem is trying to find out why.


> If your cgi wrappers are not group mailman then its setgid property is
> not going to work the way you expect. For instance if its group "list"
> then its going to execute as group "list" and the fact the files it
> references are -rw-rw---- mailman:mailman won't help because they are
> not in the group "list". Make sense?

which file permissions are wrong? which ones do I have to change?
check_perms -f changes get undone constantly and I don't know by what.


if check_perms reports some "group list and not mailman" stuff I don't 
experience any problems and nothing changes when I fix them.
When my web-interface doesn't work i.e.
ls -l /var/lib/mailman/lists/listname/
total 24
-rw-rw----    1 mailman  mailman      4284 Sep 14 12:00 config.pck
then it will not work regardless of what check_perms says or does.

all I know is: if I chown -R www-data /var/lib/mailman/lists then it works 
again.




*help*


From jd at commandprompt.com  Wed Sep 14 20:10:02 2005
From: jd at commandprompt.com (Joshua D. Drake)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:10:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Running 2.2a0 want to downgrade to 2.1.6 stable
Message-ID: <4328677A.8090106@commandprompt.com>

Hello,

We have a machine running 2.2a0. We would like to downgrade to the 
stable release
of 2.1.6. Are there any known gotchas that we need to prepare for?

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

-- 
Your PostgreSQL solutions company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.800.492.2240
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Programming, 24x7 support
Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting
Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/



From jdennis at redhat.com  Wed Sep 14 20:51:45 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:51:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] config.pck, apache, permissions and Errno 13
In-Reply-To: <200509141946.22695.samwise-gamgee@web.de>
References: <200509140411.24382.samwise-gamgee@web.de>
	<200509141845.26303.samwise-gamgee@web.de>
	<1126718954.12545.27.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
	<200509141946.22695.samwise-gamgee@web.de>
Message-ID: <1126723905.12545.50.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Wed, 2005-09-14 at 19:46 +0200, Sam Gamgee wrote:
> yes yes yes. I know that.
> but the results are not permanent. My problem is trying to find out why.
> 

I'm trying to tell you why :-) Below are the cgi wrappers on my system
as a reference point, adjust the path for your installation. The key
thing to note here is the wrapper (anything in the mailman/cgi-bin
directory) has two critical properties

1) it is in the group mailman
2) it is setgid (the s flag in the group execute field)

What this means is when some entity (e.g. your web server, apache) runs
one of this cgi-bin programs the OS will note the files is setgid and
then run the program as the group the program file belongs to (e.g.
mailman). Without setgid sticky bit the OS will run the program as the
group belonging to the entity that invoked it (in this case apache)
which appears from your description as to what is happening, the group
ownerships are getting changed to apache's group.

To further expand on what is happening: when one of these cgi-bin
wrappers is called the very first thing it does is ask the following
question "Who called me?" If they are not in a group I trust I refuse to
execute because I only work on behest of a select set of trusted groups.
For the cgi-bin wrappers that set of groups is the set of groups
belonging to your web server and what is set via --with-cgi-gid. If the
entity that invoked the wrapper is not in the set of trusted groups you
get a group mismatch error and the wrapper exits. If the trust test
passes the wrapper continues to execute in the group mailman (because
the wrapper's file has the setgid sticky bit set and belongs to the
group mailman). If either the setgid sticky bit is not set -or- the
wrappers file is not group mailman you're going to get the type of
permission problems you're seeing.

FWIW, the description applies to the mail wrapper and the MTA, just
change the names ;-)

% ls -l /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
total 264
-rwxr-sr-x  1 root mailman 18345 Mar  7  2005 admin
-rwxr-sr-x  1 root mailman 18349 Mar  7  2005 admindb
-rwxr-sr-x  1 root mailman 18349 Mar  7  2005 confirm
-rwxr-sr-x  1 root mailman 18349 Mar  7  2005 create
-rwxr-sr-x  1 root mailman 18353 Mar  7  2005 edithtml
-rwxr-sr-x  1 root mailman 18353 Mar  7  2005 listinfo
-rwxr-sr-x  1 root mailman 18349 Mar  7  2005 options
-rwxr-sr-x  1 root mailman 18349 Mar  7  2005 private
-rwxr-sr-x  1 root mailman 18349 Mar  7  2005 rmlist
-rwxr-sr-x  1 root mailman 18349 Mar  7  2005 roster
-rwxr-sr-x  1 root mailman 18353 Mar  7  2005 subscribe


-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From samwise-gamgee at web.de  Wed Sep 14 21:47:29 2005
From: samwise-gamgee at web.de (Sam Gamgee)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 21:47:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] config.pck, apache,
	permissions and Errno 13 SOLVED
In-Reply-To: <1126723905.12545.50.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
References: <200509140411.24382.samwise-gamgee@web.de>
	<200509141946.22695.samwise-gamgee@web.de>
	<1126723905.12545.50.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <200509142147.31150.samwise-gamgee@web.de>


> % ls -l /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
> total 264
> -rwxr-sr-x  1 root mailman 18345 Mar  7  2005 admin
> -rwxr-sr-x  1 root mailman 18349 Mar  7  2005 admindb
> -rwxr-sr-x  1 root mailman 18349 Mar  7  2005 confirm
> -rwxr-sr-x  1 root mailman 18349 Mar  7  2005 create
> -rwxr-sr-x  1 root mailman 18353 Mar  7  2005 edithtml
> -rwxr-sr-x  1 root mailman 18353 Mar  7  2005 listinfo
> -rwxr-sr-x  1 root mailman 18349 Mar  7  2005 options
> -rwxr-sr-x  1 root mailman 18349 Mar  7  2005 private
> -rwxr-sr-x  1 root mailman 18349 Mar  7  2005 rmlist
> -rwxr-sr-x  1 root mailman 18349 Mar  7  2005 roster
> -rwxr-sr-x  1 root mailman 18353 Mar  7  2005 subscribe

thanks! that did it.
the permissions were wrong, and they weren't being corrected by check_perms -f

for me it was:
/var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
which is:
/var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin -> /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman

anyway. it works now :))

thank you for your patience.


cheers.
aron


From elvisfern at gmail.com  Wed Sep 14 21:48:28 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 12:48:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Complettly delete unused mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <20050914062251.GD35178@ns2.wananchi.com>
References: <5b1c0dc50509131609731170da@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050914062251.GD35178@ns2.wananchi.com>
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc5050914124840942d1e@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks!
That worked well.
 Regards
Elvis
 On 9/13/05, Odhiambo Washington <wash at wananchi.com> wrote: 
> 
> * On 13/09/05 16:09 -0700, Elvis Fernandes wrote:
> > Hello,
> > I want to delete off a few old mailing lists.
> > I read the instructions at:
> > http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.031.htp
> > On checking, I did not the variable OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS in
> > the /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py file.
> > Is there a simple way to delete off the old mail lists. I do not need to
> > archive any data from these old lists.
> > Thanks
> > Elvis
> 
> cd /path/to/mailman/bin
> ./rmlist -a listname
> ./rmlist -a list2
> 
> 
> -Wash
> 
> http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
> 
> --
> +======================================================================+
> |\ _,,,---,,_ | Odhiambo Washington <wash at wananchi.com>
> Zzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ | Wananchi Online Ltd. www.wananchi.com<http://www.wananchi.com>
> |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-'| Tel: +254 20 313985-9 +254 20 313922
> '---''(_/--' `-'\_) | GSM: +254 722 743223 +254 733 744121
> +======================================================================+
> Anthony's Law of Force:
> Don't force it; get a larger hammer.
>


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Wed Sep 14 22:02:48 2005
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:02:48 +1200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman, multi-domain capable?
Message-ID: <06E2E60FB9C6EF409EFE472A8F4A82EB01BE6247@coso.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

If so, can someone point me at docs to do this with sendmail?

If not, can someone suggest GPL software that can do this?

Regards

Thing



From deborah.bryant at lexisnexis.com  Wed Sep 14 22:22:10 2005
From: deborah.bryant at lexisnexis.com (Bryant, Deb (LNG-BET))
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:22:10 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Basic question of new list admin: how do i view a
	list of subscri	bers?
Message-ID: <9C6B7853C6E8784B8F5A4F86E443C188C61160@LNGBETEXCP001.legal.regn.net>

Hello:

 

I inherited the job of list admin for our mailman listserv.  I did not
inherit any documentation or training, however.  I'm fumbling along OK, but
cannot for the life of me figure out how to view (ideally download) a
complete list of subscribers.  

 

If someone can take a moment to guide me, I'd be most appreciative.

 

Thanks! 

 

Deb



From jdennis at redhat.com  Wed Sep 14 22:44:34 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:44:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] config.pck, apache,
	permissions and Errno 13	SOLVED
In-Reply-To: <200509142147.31150.samwise-gamgee@web.de>
References: <200509140411.24382.samwise-gamgee@web.de>
	<200509141946.22695.samwise-gamgee@web.de>
	<1126723905.12545.50.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
	<200509142147.31150.samwise-gamgee@web.de>
Message-ID: <1126730674.12545.78.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Wed, 2005-09-14 at 21:47 +0200, Sam Gamgee wrote:
> thanks! that did it.
> the permissions were wrong, and they weren't being corrected by check_perms -f
> 
> for me it was:
> /var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
> which is:
> /var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin -> /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman

hmm... it's troubling that check_perms -f didn't fix this, it should
have. I can only think of two reasons check_perms would miss the cgi-bin
files

1) Its a non-standard installation and check_perms was not updated to
reflect the new installation.

2) The fact the cgi-bin directory is a symbolic link (but I would expect
that to be transparent because links should just be followed).

You might want to run check_perms with the -v verbose option (without
the -f it won't change anything). With verbose it will tell you exactly
what its checking. You could do something like "check_perms -v | grep
cgi" If you don't get something like the output below then you need to
file a bug against whoever provided your mailman package for why
check_perms is missing your cgi-bin directory.


[root at mailtest Mailman]# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms -v | grep cgi
    checking gid and mode for /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin
    checking gid and mode for /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/confirm
    checking gid and mode for /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/admindb
    checking gid and mode for /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo
    checking gid and mode for /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/private
    checking gid and mode for /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/admin
    checking gid and mode for /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/roster
    checking gid and mode for /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/subscribe
    checking gid and mode for /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/rmlist
    checking gid and mode for /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/create
    checking gid and mode for /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/edithtml
    checking gid and mode for /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/options
checking cgi-bin permissions
    checking set-gid for /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/confirm
    checking set-gid for /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/admindb
    checking set-gid for /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo
    checking set-gid for /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/private
    checking set-gid for /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/admin
    checking set-gid for /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/roster
    checking set-gid for /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/subscribe
    checking set-gid for /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/rmlist
    checking set-gid for /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/create
    checking set-gid for /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/edithtml
    checking set-gid for /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/options

-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Wed Sep 14 23:08:19 2005
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 06:08:19 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Running 2.2a0 want to downgrade to 2.1.6 stable
In-Reply-To: <4328677A.8090106@commandprompt.com>
References: <4328677A.8090106@commandprompt.com>
Message-ID: <43289143.5030209@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi,

Joshua D. Drake wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> We have a machine running 2.2a0. We would like to downgrade to the 
> stable release
> of 2.1.6. Are there any known gotchas that we need to prepare for?

When did you install 2.2a0? I believe you installed ot from CVS.
The CVS HEAD is now versioned 2.2.0a0 and a backport of 2.1.6 plus a few 
bug fixes and is as stable as 2.1.6.  Upgrading to the CVS HEAD should 
be as smooth as upgrading from 2.1.x to 2.1.6.

Cheers,

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Sep 14 23:09:05 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 23:09:05 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman, multi-domain capable?
In-Reply-To: <06E2E60FB9C6EF409EFE472A8F4A82EB01BE6247@coso.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
References: <06E2E60FB9C6EF409EFE472A8F4A82EB01BE6247@coso.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <p06200769bf4e41dcbffe@[10.0.1.210]>

At 8:02 AM +1200 2005-09-15, Steven Jones wrote:

>  If so, can someone point me at docs to do this with sendmail?
>
>  If not, can someone suggest GPL software that can do this?

	Go to the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> and search for "virtual 
domain".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Sep 14 23:13:41 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 23:13:41 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Basic question of new list admin: how do i view
 a list of subscri	bers?
In-Reply-To: <9C6B7853C6E8784B8F5A4F86E443C188C61160@LNGBETEXCP001.legal.regn.n
	et>
References: <9C6B7853C6E8784B8F5A4F86E443C188C61160@LNGBETEXCP001.legal.regn.n
	et>
Message-ID: <p0620076abf4e41f6c601@[10.0.1.210]>

At 4:22 PM -0400 2005-09-14, Bryant, Deb (LNG-BET) wrote:

>  I inherited the job of list admin for our mailman listserv.  I did not
>  inherit any documentation or training, however.  I'm fumbling along OK, but
>  cannot for the life of me figure out how to view (ideally download) a
>  complete list of subscribers.

	Without making changes to the Mailman source code, or changing 
the defaults that ship with Mailman, you can't do this from the web 
admin interface, unless you've got a really small list.  Even if you 
do change the defaults (so as to display more members on a page), 
that's still just going to be presented the same way as the 
information you already see -- probably not what you're looking for.

	To get the kind of information you want, you pretty much have to 
telnet or ssh in to the server and use the command-line interface. 
You're looking for the command "list_members".  Go to the Mailman FAQ 
Wizard at <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?> and search for 
"mailman/bin".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Wed Sep 14 23:51:42 2005
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:51:42 +1200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman, multi-domain capable?
Message-ID: <06E2E60FB9C6EF409EFE472A8F4A82EB01BE624E@coso.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Thanks, been doing so.....knowing what key words to search under always
helps.

Regards

Thing

-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad at stop.mail-abuse.org] 
Sent: Thursday, 15 September 2005 9:09 a.m.
To: Steven Jones
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman, multi-domain capable?

At 8:02 AM +1200 2005-09-15, Steven Jones wrote:

>  If so, can someone point me at docs to do this with sendmail?
>
>  If not, can someone suggest GPL software that can do this?

	Go to the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> and search for "virtual 
domain".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.



From jpfingstmann at azxws.com  Thu Sep 15 01:13:09 2005
From: jpfingstmann at azxws.com (Jason Pfingstmann)
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:13:09 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] third-level domains
Message-ID: <53346.10.4.1.2.1126739589.squirrel@webmail.azxws.com>

First off, to give you all a general overview:
1  Web Server - handles domain.com, www.domain.com requests
2  Mail Server - Postfix using virtual domains from mySQL DB

I have mailman on the mail server (since it seems to require this) and so
installed apache on it.  DNS points all domains "mail.domain.com" to the
mail server.  Since the mailman user access and admin access pages are
pointed to the domain of the list, using mail.domain.com makes sense for
lists.  So somelist at mail.domain.com

The issue is, I have the following in my mm_cfg.py:
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['mail.azxws.com']
add_virtualhost('mail.azxws.com')

I have postfix transport for mail.azxws.com set to virtual
When I am the mailman user and do ./bin/newlist list at mail.azxws.com, I get
an e-mail to the admin account I specify with links to
list-request at azxws.com, not mail.azxws.com.
Also, when I send e-mail to list at mail.azxws.com I get an error that it
loops back upon itself, and when I try list at azxws.com I get an error that
the user doesn't exist (since azxws.com is a virtual domain that has
e-mail addresses used by it).

Please let me know what might help troubleshoot this.  I'm at my wits end.
 Thanks.

Jason Pfingstmann




From ghar4399 at bigpond.net.au  Thu Sep 15 12:07:03 2005
From: ghar4399 at bigpond.net.au (Gil Hardwick)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:07:03 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no authorisation
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20050915180225.02468950@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>

Hi everyone,

I am a newbie here, having subscribed only this morning.

We spent yesterday setting up mailman on a FC3 web server that
has been running for quite some time now.

Everything has been running OK, except that today I find that I have
no authorisation to create new lists. I had authorisation yesterday,
and the only thing I can think happened in the meantime was a
system reboot.

Is there something else I should look at?

Gil



From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Thu Sep 15 14:52:58 2005
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:52:58 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Public Archives 403 Forbidden after Upgrade to 2.1.6
Message-ID: <BAYC1-PASMTP03E5B870A2A1A5EBF67870AE9E0@cez.ice>

I have recently upgraded to MM 2.1.6 with the HTDig integration 
patches.

I have noticed that since this upgrade that my public archives are 
inaccessible, I get a 403 Forbidden Error.

I am running MM2.1..6 built from the tarball, Apache 1.3.27 and 
Python 2.3.4.

Mailamn was configured with the following commande:
./configure  --prefix=/var/mailman --with-
python=/usr/local/bin/python --with-cgi-gid=apache --wit
h-mail-gid=mail

My Apache directives are:

#
# Configure Mailman's CGI scripts
# From Mailman Users Archive
#

ScriptAlias /mailman/ /var/mailman/cgi-bin/
<Directory /var/mailman/cgi-bin>
  Options -Indexes -FollowSymLinks -Includes ExecCgi
  AllowOverride None
  Order deny,allow
  Allow from all
</Directory>

#
# Configure the public archives
#
Alias /pipermail/ /var/mailman/archives/public/
<Directory /var/mailman/archives/public/>
  Options FollowSymlinks
  AllowOverride None
  Order deny,allow
  Allow from all
</Directory>

The error in my Apache log is:
67.68.49.67 - - [15/Sep/2005:07:42:18 -0500] "GET /pipermail/accessd/ 
HTTP/1.1" 403 305 "-" "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-
US; rv:1.7.10) Gecko/20050716 (No IDN) Firefox/1.0.6"

There is nothing that I can see in the MM error logs.

bin/check_perms shows no errors

One thing is that if I treat the archive as a private archive by 
going to:
http://example.com/mailman/private/listname/
I can log in and access the archives.

I have tried making the archive private and then making it public 
again and it doesn't work.

Does anyone have any ideas of what I can check next. I'm at a total 
loss as to what could be wrong.

Thanks for reading this far.

-- 
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't 
matter and those who matter don't mind - Dr.Seuss 




From jdennis at redhat.com  Thu Sep 15 15:09:16 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:09:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no authorisation
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20050915180225.02468950@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20050915180225.02468950@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <1126789756.2599.3.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 18:07 +0800, Gil Hardwick wrote:
> We spent yesterday setting up mailman on a FC3 web server that
> has been running for quite some time now.
> 
> Everything has been running OK, except that today I find that I have
> no authorisation to create new lists. I had authorisation yesterday,
> and the only thing I can think happened in the meantime was a
> system reboot.
> 
> Is there something else I should look at?

* Is mailman running?
  /sbin/service mailman status

* Did you?
  /sbin/chkconfig mailman on

* Are you showing any "avc" errors in /var/log/messages
or /var/log/audit/audit.log?

* Do you have SELinux enabled? Try turning it off
  setenforce 0

* Can you create the list via the command line (mailman/bin/newlist)
  but not the Web UI?
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From itp1 at nysernet.org  Thu Sep 15 16:04:21 2005
From: itp1 at nysernet.org (IT Purchases)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 10:04:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Synchronizing Mailman between two servers.
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20050915100352.053daeb0@lin-syr.nysernet.org>


Hello,

Any thoughts on what is the best way to synchronize mailman databases
between to linux boxes?

If my alias_maps are defined the same in /etc/postfix/main.cf are the
same on both hosts can I just duplicate my /usr/lib/mailman and
/var/lib/mailman directories?

Aaron
   ~



From jwblist at olympus.net  Thu Sep 15 17:17:45 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:17:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] config.pck, apache, permissions and Errno 13
In-Reply-To: <200509141946.22695.samwise-gamgee@web.de>
Message-ID: <BF4EDEA9.7F5D%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 9/14/05 10:46 AM, "Sam Gamgee" <samwise-gamgee at web.de> wrote:

> yes yes yes. I know that.
> but the results are not permanent. My problem is trying to find out why.

If the fixes are not permanent, then something is "fixing" them.  My memory
of the thread says that this happens periodically.

I've now forgotten what aspect of the fix isn't permanent in your case.  If
it is the setgid bit, then perhaps there is a periodic "nanny" process which
removes dangerous setgid bits.  If so, there probably is a "these are OK"
list associated with the process.

Traditionally, one looked carefully at what is run by cron...in some cases
that no longer suffices...for example Apple has moved much of the periodic
stuff out of cron into their launchd thing.  (Which probably isn't really
theirs, but Mac OS X is where I encounter the beast.)

  --John




From jhansen at winonacotter.org  Thu Sep 15 17:21:56 2005
From: jhansen at winonacotter.org (John Hansen)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 10:21:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] change respond_to_post_requests text
In-Reply-To: <20050915151417.M21049@winonacotter.org>
References: <20050915145152.M1040@winonacotter.org>
	<20050915151417.M21049@winonacotter.org>
Message-ID: <20050915152125.M87897@winonacotter.org>

We are using MailMan 2.1.5 on WhiteBox Linux.

Is it possible to change the default message in the respond_to_post_requests
when the message is moderated?  We would like it to be a little more intuitive
for our list members as to why their message is being held.

If so, where is the location of the file so it can be modified?

Thanks.

John

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by the Cotter Technology 
Department, and is believed to be clean.



From sythos at sythos.net  Thu Sep 15 17:35:41 2005
From: sythos at sythos.net (Sythos)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 17:35:41 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Synchronizing Mailman between two servers.
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20050915100352.053daeb0@lin-syr.nysernet.org>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20050915100352.053daeb0@lin-syr.nysernet.org>
Message-ID: <20050915153541.GA13484@sythos.net>

On Thu, Sep 15, 2005 at 10:04:21AM -0400, IT Purchases wrote:
> Any thoughts on what is the best way to synchronize mailman databases
> between to linux boxes?
> If my alias_maps are defined the same in /etc/postfix/main.cf are the
> same on both hosts can I just duplicate my /usr/lib/mailman and
> /var/lib/mailman directories?

A solution is reserve some space on your disks and partition them with a
distributed FS (like CODA), so mount ok it /usr/lib/mailman &
/var/lib/mailman

-- 

Sythos - http://www.sythos.net
  ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
  /\                        - against M$ attachments


From adrian at whatifnet.com  Thu Sep 15 18:40:55 2005
From: adrian at whatifnet.com (Adrian Wells)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 12:40:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lock files and withlist?
Message-ID: <fc.001d0211006c7a37001d0211006c7a37.6c7ac8@whatifnet.com>

Hello.  I'm working with Mailman 2.1.6 and learning about the helpful
withlist tool.  Disclaimer, I'm learning more about Python and Mailman so
it's very likely, I've made a fairly simple error.  I've written a couple
scripts to make changes to a number of lists (like changing a number of
list's hostname or list owner).  For example:

customchange.py is located at the root installation directory of Mailman. 
It contains:

# Python function to make custom changes
def customchange(m):
    curlist = m.real_name
    curlist = curlist.lower()
    print 'Current list is: ' + curlist
    if curlist.startswith('apples'):
         print 'Starts with apples!  Current host_name is: ' + m.host_name
         print 'Changing hostname now...'
         m.host_name = 'lists.newlistname.org'
         m.Save()


This script is then run with withlist:

./withlist -a -l -r customchange


After preforming this, I noticed that the web interface for lists are not
accessible and that the locks directory contains at least two lock files
for every list.  For example a list called 'defaultdomain' contains the
following lock files similar to this:

-rw-rw-r--  2 adrian  mailman 73 Sep 15  2005 defaultdomain.lock
-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman 73 Sep 15  2005
defaultdomain.lock.lists.newlistname.org.20587.0


I've also noticed that these lock files appear to be cleared out the next
day when cron/checkdbs is run at 8 AM.  The locks log contains entries
such as this (I realize the dates don't match the above example but the
results are the same for all lists):

Sep 14 08:00:07 2005 (17702) defaultdomain.lock lifetime has expired,
breaking
Sep 14 08:00:07 2005 (17702)   File "/Users/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line
178, in ?
Sep 14 08:00:07 2005 (17702)     main()
Sep 14 08:00:07 2005 (17702)   File "/Users/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line
84, in main
Sep 14 08:00:07 2005 (17702)     mlist = MailList.MailList(name)
Sep 14 08:00:07 2005 (17702)   File "/Users/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py",
line 126, in __init__
Sep 14 08:00:07 2005 (17702)     self.Lock()
Sep 14 08:00:07 2005 (17702)   File "/Users/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py",
line 159, in Lock
Sep 14 08:00:07 2005 (17702)     self.__lock.lock(timeout)
Sep 14 08:00:07 2005 (17702)   File "/Users/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py",
line 306, in lock
Sep 14 08:00:07 2005 (17702)     important=True)
Sep 14 08:00:07 2005 (17702)   File "/Users/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py",
line 416, in __writelog
Sep 14 08:00:07 2005 (17702)     traceback.print_stack(file=logf)

If someone could help me to understand what is happening and/or how to
avoid this from happening, I would appreciate it.  Also, is there a
safe/recommended method to remove the lock files so the lists can be used
again?  Thank you,
-Adrian



From tony_bibbs at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 15 19:00:20 2005
From: tony_bibbs at yahoo.com (Tony Bibbs)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 10:00:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List suddenly stops working
Message-ID: <20050915170020.22159.qmail@web90001.mail.scd.yahoo.com>

Ok, I have two domains, example1.com and example2.com.

All lists I've created using example1.com seem to be
working fine.  I created a new list but changed the
domain for that list only to be example2.com.  Well,
the problem is that the new list works for a while and
then magically stops.  I delete the list, re-add it
and add the members to it and it works for a while and
dies again.

The maillog shows a similar pattern. I see the message
come in, I see the messages to the members go out and
when it stops I see the message come in and then
nothing.

Any idea on the problem or how to diagnose?

--Tony




		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com


From jd at commandprompt.com  Thu Sep 15 19:08:58 2005
From: jd at commandprompt.com (Joshua D. Drake)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 10:08:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Running 2.2a0 want to downgrade to 2.1.6 stable
In-Reply-To: <43289143.5030209@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <4328677A.8090106@commandprompt.com>
	<43289143.5030209@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <4329AAAA.4090407@commandprompt.com>

Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>>
>> We have a machine running 2.2a0. We would like to downgrade to the 
>> stable release
>> of 2.1.6. Are there any known gotchas that we need to prepare for?
> 
> 
> When did you install 2.2a0?

We didn't :), We are being call into to help fix some issues and wanted
to downgrade to the known stable version.

  I believe you installed ot from CVS.

That was the impression we got as well.

> The CVS HEAD is now versioned 2.2.0a0 and a backport of 2.1.6 plus a few 
> bug fixes and is as stable as 2.1.6.  Upgrading to the CVS HEAD should 
> be as smooth as upgrading from 2.1.x to 2.1.6.

O.k. so you are suggesting that we should just upgrade to HEAD hmmm. 
Makes me a little nervious but I guess it can't hurt us :)

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake


> 
> Cheers,
> 


-- 
Your PostgreSQL solutions company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.800.492.2240
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Programming, 24x7 support
Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting
Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/


From willym at verizon.net  Thu Sep 15 19:42:37 2005
From: willym at verizon.net (Bill Morse)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 13:42:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change all members to "conceal address"
	("hide" on	"membership list" page)
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200509131819200515c9075357@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BF4F2ACD.8E9A8%willym@verizon.net>

I have changed the new members default to hide- how do I change all the
existing members to hide?

Thanks,

Bill Morse

Wm. Morse Editions
450 Harrison Ave. Studio 227
Boston, MA 02118
(617) 429-3298

 www.MorseEditions.com

PS- Please note new email and web address



From elvisfern at gmail.com  Fri Sep 16 00:41:24 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 15:41:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Saving attachments
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc505091515413cc49498@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
 I notice that when you save the attachments, they are saved with a 
different name than the name of the original attachment on the email.
Is there a way that the attachment can be made to save as the same name as 
on the email?
 Thanks
Elvis Fernandes


From jpfingstmann at azxws.com  Fri Sep 16 01:00:33 2005
From: jpfingstmann at azxws.com (Jason Pfingstmann)
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 16:00:33 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Fixed] third-level domains
Message-ID: <56329.10.4.1.2.1126825233.squirrel@webmail.azxws.com>

I was having issues with sub domains.  (Sorry, not TLD, thinko).  Here's
what I did so others might be helped by this:

mm_cfg.py:
MTA = "Postfix"
OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = Yes
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.domain.com','lists.domain2.com']
add_virtualhost('lists.domain.com','lists.domain.com')
add_virtualhost('lists.domain2.com','lists.domain2.com')


Defaults.py (Just lists the following, and not for all domains, just 1
entry):
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mail.domain.com'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.domain.com'

That got it to work.  I hope this helps someone else, I'm sure that there
may be more elegant ways to do this.  If I missed the point on something,
please correct me.  Thanks.

-Jason Pfingstmann




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Sep 16 09:42:48 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:42:48 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Saving attachments
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc505091515413cc49498@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5b1c0dc505091515413cc49498@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06200710bf5027c9ddb1@[10.0.1.210]>

At 3:41 PM -0700 2005-09-15, Elvis Fernandes wrote:

>   I notice that when you save the attachments, they are saved with a
>  different name than the name of the original attachment on the email.
>  Is there a way that the attachment can be made to save as the same name as
>  on the email?

	This sounds like a problem with your mail program.  I don't think 
we can help you with that.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From ghar4399 at bigpond.net.au  Fri Sep 16 10:42:12 2005
From: ghar4399 at bigpond.net.au (Gil Hardwick)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:42:12 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  endless reposting problem
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20050916163656.02468130@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>

Wow,

Some of my clients had their office auto-responder switch on, and
their replies ended up running an endless loop through the system
so everyone else got 10-15 copies each before I had a chance to
turn it off.

I thought only a member of the list could post to the list, in this case
all moderated so I would have to approve all posts anyway.

If the list is not a member of itself, how can it keep posting the same
mail to and from itself in a continuous loop?

Is there something else I need to configure to stop this happening?

Gil



From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Sep 16 11:26:42 2005
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 18:26:42 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] endless reposting problem
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20050916163656.02468130@pop-server.bigpond.net.au> (Gil
	Hardwick's message of "Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:42:12 +0800")
References: <6.2.3.4.0.20050916163656.02468130@pop-server.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <87slw5nz1p.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Gil" == Gil Hardwick <ghar4399 at bigpond.net.au> writes:

    Gil> Some of my clients had their office auto-responder switch on,

This ought to be a firing offense ....  It's very simple.  There is a
standard for mailing lists, there are a bunch of headers (List-Id,
etc) that are required of conforming lists, and Mailman (by default)
conforms.  So all vacation programs need to do is not respond to
anything containing a List-Id header (or any other header indicating
bulk mail---I'm willing to bet that some of your users have just added
themselves to the "Golden Live Ones" list at Spammers International).

Unfortunately I can't recommend one; I have a canned stanza for
procmail for this, so have never investigated those programs.

Since there is no standard for vacation programs AFAIK, it is not
possible for mailman to reliably detect the vacation program.

    Gil> I thought only a member of the list could post to the list,
    Gil> in this case all moderated so I would have to approve all
    Gil> posts anyway.

The member vs moderation filters interact in a complicated,
nonintuitive way (or they did in 2.0, I'm not using them in 2.1).  You
should check these settings very carefully, as posts are obviously
getting through.

    Gil> If the list is not a member of itself, how can it keep
    Gil> posting the same mail to and from itself in a continuous
    Gil> loop?

It doesn't.  It sends mail to the user, whose vacation program sends a
canned _new_ message back, so Mailman can't identify it as the "moral
equivalent" of a bounce.  Mailman redistributes the vacation message,
the user gets it, which triggers the vacation reflex, and away we go.
Of course all the vacation messages look alike (because the vacation
program is too simple to come up with a new one every time), but if
you check carefully, you should see that each one has a unique
Message-ID, and possibly (if it's a really smart program) an
"In-Reply-To" header to a unique trigger post.

    Gil> Is there something else I need to configure to stop this happening?

You could chain the users to their workstations.<wink>  But you'll
probably have a better response if you find a decent vacation program.


-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep 16 18:33:44 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:33:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private archive for list
In-Reply-To: <1126632969.12381.23.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509160933440421e449e731@msapiro>

Darren G Pifer wrote:

>I have been trying to get to the private archives of a list but 
>when I click on the URL http://list.odu.edu/private/telephone_logs/
>I get nothing on the page. I have been able to access other archives of
>private lists but for some reason I am not seeing any for this list. I
>have thought about trying this
>
>bin/arch --wipe list-name
>
>but I don't want to remove the archives. Is there anything I check for
>or another script to run to find out if a file is corrupt?
>Just to be sure, I checked that this list does have a mbox in
>the archives/private/telephone_logs directory.

Are you sure archiving is enabled for this list?

Is there a global mailbox file at
archives/private/telephone_logs.mbox/telephone_logs.mbox or just the
archives/private/telephone_logs.mbox/ directory without the file?

If the archives/private/telephone_logs.mbox/telephone_logs.mbox file
exists and contains the past posts to the list, then

bin/arch --wipe list-name

should build archives. If the .mbox file is there and the HTML archives
are not being created, there is probably a permissions issue.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From willym at verizon.net  Fri Sep 16 18:40:30 2005
From: willym at verizon.net (Bill Morse)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:40:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Processing
In-Reply-To: <43275738.4050008@linfield.edu>
Message-ID: <BF506DBE.8EE0D%willym@verizon.net>

Is there any way the administrator of a list (used for announcements only)
to receive bounce notifications without the member receiving a disabled
account notification?
Thanks

Bill



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep 16 18:43:07 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:43:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman with MHonArc
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc5050913121863f4c478@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509160943070281e449e680@msapiro>

Elvis Fernandes wrote:

> Is there a simple way to delete off the old mail lists. I not not need to 
>archive any data from these old lists.

bin/rmlist --archives listname

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dwinner-lists at att.net  Fri Sep 16 18:48:03 2005
From: dwinner-lists at att.net (DW)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:48:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments in archives have wrong extensions
Message-ID: <432AF743.1060800@att.net>

Hello,

When users send email to any of my lists with attachments, they go 
through fine. But when someone tries to go back and get an attachment 
from one of the archives, they almost always find that the link to the 
attachment has a bad extension, and the web browser doesn't know what to 
do with it. If you do a "save as" and rename it with the proper 
extension, the attachments seem to be intact and ok. But most users 
don't know to do this, an it is causing us problems.

Any solution to this?

Here is an example of a file that was posted as MyFile.zip:

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: IFQSysFlights.zip
Type: application/x-zip-compressed
Size: 206816 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : 
http://my.mailman.server/mailman/private/testlist/attachments/20050916/132776cc/MyFile-0001.bin

When the list members recieve the email, the attachment is correct 
(MyFile.zip), but the archive has a *.bin extension.

Thanks for any info,
DW


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep 16 18:54:25 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:54:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Processing
In-Reply-To: <BF506DBE.8EE0D%willym@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509160954250890e449e8f3@msapiro>

Bill Morse wrote:

>Is there any way the administrator of a list (used for announcements only)
>to receive bounce notifications without the member receiving a disabled
>account notification?

If you want to keep automated bounce processing, then no or at least
not in every case (if a user is bouncing, she/he likely won't receive
the disabled notice either).

If you don't care about automated bounce processing and your MTA uses
aliases, change the listname-bounces alias to go to 'owner' instead of
'bounces'. E.g.

listname-bounces: "|path_to/mailman/mail/mailman owner listname"

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep 16 19:19:15 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:19:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments in archives have wrong extensions
In-Reply-To: <432AF743.1060800@att.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509161019150703e449e82e@msapiro>

DW wrote:
>
>When users send email to any of my lists with attachments, they go 
>through fine. But when someone tries to go back and get an attachment 
>from one of the archives, they almost always find that the link to the 
>attachment has a bad extension, and the web browser doesn't know what to 
>do with it. If you do a "save as" and rename it with the proper 
>extension, the attachments seem to be intact and ok. But most users 
>don't know to do this, an it is causing us problems.
>
>Any solution to this?
>
>Here is an example of a file that was posted as MyFile.zip:
>
>-------------- next part --------------
>A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>Name: IFQSysFlights.zip
>Type: application/x-zip-compressed
>Size: 206816 bytes
>Desc: not available
>Url : 
>http://my.mailman.server/mailman/private/testlist/attachments/20050916/132776cc/MyFile-0001.bin

The scrubber makes the extension from the content-type (shown as Type:
above). If this doesn't agree with the attachment's extension, the one
'guessed' from content-type is used. Here are comments from Scrubber.py

 # If the filename's extension doesn't match the type we guessed,
 # which one should we go with?  For now, let's go with the one we
 # guessed so attachments can't lie about their type.

The problem in your case is that application/x-zip-compressed is not a
registered type (no 'x-' types are). See
ftp://ftp.iana.org/assignments/media-types/

One possible solution is to use an MUA that will call a .zip file
"Content-Type: application/zip" which is a registered type, but this
probably is not a practical solution.

Another possibility is to change the scrubber to use the file extension
if any.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep 16 19:30:55 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:30:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to make attached jpg show in message body
In-Reply-To: <BF4CC3E3.8E688%willym@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509161030550453e449e75c@msapiro>

Bill Morse wrote:

>Is there any way to make an image show in the body of a message to the list.
>When I attach an image in entourage, the image displays in the body of the
>message. When I attach an image to a list message, it only is listed in the
>attachments area.

I think you are saying that if for example you send a post to a list
with a Bcc: to yourself and then you view the received post and the
Bcc: with the same MUA (e-mail client), the Bcc: shows the image
inline and the received post does not.

If this is correct, then Mailman has changed the MIME structure of the
message in some way. Possibly this has to do with the addition of list
headers and/or footers. See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dwinner-lists at att.net  Fri Sep 16 19:48:16 2005
From: dwinner-lists at att.net (DW)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:48:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments in archives have wrong extensions
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200509161019150703e449e82e@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200509161019150703e449e82e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <432B0560.1050905@att.net>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> DW wrote:
> 
>>When users send email to any of my lists with attachments, they go 
>>through fine. But when someone tries to go back and get an attachment 
> 
>>from one of the archives, they almost always find that the link to the 
> 
>>attachment has a bad extension, and the web browser doesn't know what to 
>>do with it. If you do a "save as" and rename it with the proper 
>>extension, the attachments seem to be intact and ok. But most users 
>>don't know to do this, an it is causing us problems.
>>
>>Any solution to this?
>>
>>Here is an example of a file that was posted as MyFile.zip:
>>
>>-------------- next part --------------
>>A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>>Name: IFQSysFlights.zip
>>Type: application/x-zip-compressed
>>Size: 206816 bytes
>>Desc: not available
>>Url : 
>>http://my.mailman.server/mailman/private/testlist/attachments/20050916/132776cc/MyFile-0001.bin
> 
> 
> The scrubber makes the extension from the content-type (shown as Type:
> above). If this doesn't agree with the attachment's extension, the one
> 'guessed' from content-type is used. Here are comments from Scrubber.py
> 
>  # If the filename's extension doesn't match the type we guessed,
>  # which one should we go with?  For now, let's go with the one we
>  # guessed so attachments can't lie about their type.
> 
> The problem in your case is that application/x-zip-compressed is not a
> registered type (no 'x-' types are). See
> ftp://ftp.iana.org/assignments/media-types/
> 
> One possible solution is to use an MUA that will call a .zip file
> "Content-Type: application/zip" which is a registered type, but this
> probably is not a practical solution.
> 
> Another possibility is to change the scrubber to use the file extension
> if any.
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 

Cool, thanks! Thanks to your input, I was able to track down a solution:

I searched Scrubber.py, and found some logic which said:

"if mm_cfg.SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION"

so I edited mm_cfg.py and put in the following line:

SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION = 1

then restarted mailman.sh

I'm extension-happy now.

-DW


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep 16 19:53:06 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:53:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman stopped working after upgrade
In-Reply-To: <20050913225301.83F2D1E4002@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509161053060468e449e73a@msapiro>

Daevid Vincent wrote:
>
>Well, exim hasn't changed since that date above, and the config hasn't
>changed for even longer, so I believe it *is* mailman and not exim:
>
># ll
>total 80
>drwxr-xr-x   2 root root  4096 Jun 26 12:45 .
>drwxr-xr-x  77 root root  4096 Sep 13 03:14 ..
>-rw-r--r--   1 root root   775 Jul  7 00:57 auth_conf.sub
>-rw-r--r--   1 root root 29452 Apr 29 13:54 exim.conf
>-rw-r--r--   1 root root 25931 Jul  7 00:57 exim.conf.dist
>-rw-r--r--   1 root root  8120 Jul  7 00:57 system_filter.exim
>
>Mailman WAS working just fine until September 7th, when I updated it.
>
># ll /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
>-rwxr-sr-x  1 mailman mailman 7768 Sep  7 11:34
>/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman

OK. It may well be Mailman. If so, the change is that prior to the
update, the wrapper was expecting to be invoked as group 'mail' and
now it is expecting to be invoked as group 'mailman', but you say you
can't change configure to make the --with-mail-gid = 'mail' because
"Re-emerging doesn't let me change those .ebuild values. MD5 errors
and such."

So it would seem you have two choices:
1) change Exim so it does in fact invoke the wrapper as group mailman.

or
2) find the src directory and change the line in src/Makefile that says

MAIL_GROUP=     mailman

to

MAIL_GROUP=     mail

and remake the wrapper.

Of course, 2) will only avoid the problem until the next update.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep 16 20:00:18 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:00:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments in archives have wrong extensions
In-Reply-To: <432B0560.1050905@att.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509161100180078e449e5c0@msapiro>

DW wrote:
>
>I searched Scrubber.py, and found some logic which said:
>
>"if mm_cfg.SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION"

I should have pointed you directly at this, but I'm glad you found it
anyway. My excuse is it's new in 2.1.6 and I was looking at a 2.1.5
base.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep 16 20:29:35 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:29:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Basic question of new list admin: how do i
	viewa list of subscri	bers?
In-Reply-To: <p0620076abf4e41f6c601@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509161129350953e449e93c@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>	To get the kind of information you want, you pretty much have to 
>telnet or ssh in to the server and use the command-line interface. 
>You're looking for the command "list_members".

While this is the preferred method, if you don't have sufficient
access, you can script the web interface. See
http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#throughtheweb for a
script.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep 16 20:59:01 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:59:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lock files and withlist?
In-Reply-To: <fc.001d0211006c7a37001d0211006c7a37.6c7ac8@whatifnet.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509161159010500e449e755@msapiro>

Adrian Wells wrote
>
>customchange.py is located at the root installation directory of Mailman. 
>It contains:
>
># Python function to make custom changes
>def customchange(m):
>    curlist = m.real_name
>    curlist = curlist.lower()
>    print 'Current list is: ' + curlist
>    if curlist.startswith('apples'):
>         print 'Starts with apples!  Current host_name is: ' + m.host_name
>         print 'Changing hostname now...'
>         m.host_name = 'lists.newlistname.org'
>         m.Save()
>
>
>This script is then run with withlist:
>
>./withlist -a -l -r customchange
>
>
>After preforming this, I noticed that the web interface for lists are not
>accessible and that the locks directory contains at least two lock files
>for every list.

This probably should be considered a bug in withlist or at least a
documentation deficiency. The problem is when running withlist with -l
and -a switches, only the last list is unlocked by withlist. Thus you
need to unlock the lists in your script. In your example you could do
this two ways

1) make sure you unlock every list, processed or not.

# Python function to make custom changes
def customchange(m):
    curlist = m.real_name
    curlist = curlist.lower()
    print 'Current list is: ' + curlist
    if curlist.startswith('apples'):
         print 'Starts with apples!  Current host_name is: ' +
m.host_name
         print 'Changing hostname now...'
         m.host_name = 'lists.newlistname.org'
         m.Save()
    m.Unlock()


2) run withlist with -a but without -l and only lock the lists you're
changing.

# Python function to make custom changes
def customchange(m):
    curlist = m.real_name
    curlist = curlist.lower()
    print 'Current list is: ' + curlist
    if curlist.startswith('apples'):
         m.Lock()
         print 'Starts with apples!  Current host_name is: ' +
m.host_name
         print 'Changing hostname now...'
         m.host_name = 'lists.newlistname.org'
         m.Save()
         m.Unlock()

3) Safer still is like 2) with the addition of try: finally:

# Python function to make custom changes
def customchange(m):
    curlist = m.real_name
    curlist = curlist.lower()
    print 'Current list is: ' + curlist
    if curlist.startswith('apples'):
       try:
          m.Lock()
          print 'Starts with apples!  Current host_name is: ' +
m.host_name
          print 'Changing hostname now...'
          m.host_name = 'lists.newlistname.org'
          m.Save()
       finally:
          m.Unlock()

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From anner at blast.com  Fri Sep 16 21:04:13 2005
From: anner at blast.com (Anne Ramey)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:04:13 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange bounce message
Message-ID: <432B172D.7030205@blast.com>

A couple of people have sent replies to one of my lists today and 
several of the messages bounced like this:

       ===============================================
 >               THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY
 >           YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE
 >       ===============================================
 >
 > A temporary error occured while delivering to the following address(es):
 >
 >   <pfenno at ncees.org>: 454 TLS not available, must be connected via TCP
 >
 > I will continue trying to send the message until it is delivered or
 > expires.

They've replied without incident before.  It looks like they have 
changed something on their end to require the message to be delivered 
TLS, which the server this message is attempting to deliver to does not 
support, and that there is nothing I can do...is that correct.  What can 
I tell the sender to do to prevent this? Any pointers would be 
appreciated.  I've been using mailman for a couple of years and haven't 
run into this before.
-- 
Anne


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep 16 21:07:23 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:07:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Saving attachments
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc505091515413cc49498@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509161207230734ac103115@msapiro>

Elvis Fernandes wrote:

> I notice that when you save the attachments, they are saved with a 
>different name than the name of the original attachment on the email.
>Is there a way that the attachment can be made to save as the same name as 
>on the email?

On Mailman 2.1.5 and earlier, no. On 2.1.6 see the Defaults.py and
mm_cfg.py variables SCRUBBER_DONT_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME and 
SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep 16 21:23:01 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:23:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange bounce message
In-Reply-To: <432B172D.7030205@blast.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509161223010156ac102ebd@msapiro>

Anne Ramey wrote:

>A couple of people have sent replies to one of my lists today and 
>several of the messages bounced like this:
>
>       ===============================================
> >               THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY
> >           YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE
> >       ===============================================
> >
> > A temporary error occured while delivering to the following address(es):
> >
> >   <pfenno at ncees.org>: 454 TLS not available, must be connected via TCP
> >
> > I will continue trying to send the message until it is delivered or
> > expires.
>
>They've replied without incident before.


Are you saying the list is <pfenno at ncees.org> and replyers received
that bounce instead of the reply going to the list? Are they all in
the same domain? Did the bounces all come from the same MTA? which one?


>It looks like they have 
>changed something on their end to require the message to be delivered 
>TLS, which the server this message is attempting to deliver to does not 
>support, and that there is nothing I can do...is that correct.


Maybe. This may also be a temporary issue with your incoming MTA that
may resolve before the messages expire and they may be ultimately
delivered.


>What can 
>I tell the sender to do to prevent this? Any pointers would be 
>appreciated.  I've been using mailman for a couple of years and haven't 
>run into this before.

Probably nothing, but it may depend on the answers to my first set of
questions.

If in fact something has changed at their end, they probably can't do
anything about it unless they changed it in which case they should
already know what to do about it.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lists05 at equinephotoart.com  Fri Sep 16 21:25:03 2005
From: lists05 at equinephotoart.com (jc dill)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:25:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange bounce message
In-Reply-To: <432B172D.7030205@blast.com>
References: <432B172D.7030205@blast.com>
Message-ID: <432B1C0F.5020400@equinephotoart.com>

Anne Ramey wrote:
> A couple of people have sent replies to one of my lists today and 
> several of the messages bounced like this:
> 
>        ===============================================
>  >               THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY
>  >           YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE
>  >       ===============================================
>  >
>  > A temporary error occured while delivering to the following address(es):
>  >
>  >   <pfenno at ncees.org>: 454 TLS not available, must be connected via TCP
>  >
>  > I will continue trying to send the message until it is delivered or
>  > expires.
> 
> They've replied without incident before.  It looks like they have 
> changed something on their end to require the message to be delivered 
> TLS, which the server this message is attempting to deliver to does not 
> support, and that there is nothing I can do...is that correct.  What can 
> I tell the sender to do to prevent this? Any pointers would be 
> appreciated.  I've been using mailman for a couple of years and haven't 
> run into this before.

This is an smtp mail server error which has nothing to do with mailman. 
  It looks like the message is coming from their local smtp server and 
is saying that their smtp server can't reach your smtp server.  If the 
people who are getting these bounce messages are all sending from 
different servers then the problem is with your smtp server.

jc



From elvisfern at gmail.com  Fri Sep 16 21:55:11 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:55:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Saving attachments
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200509161207230734ac103115@msapiro>
References: <5b1c0dc505091515413cc49498@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200509161207230734ac103115@msapiro>
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc5050916125521839c41@mail.gmail.com>

Mark,
 Thanks for yur response.
I am using 2.1.6.
However, i do not find mention of SCRUBBER_DONT_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME and
SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION in the Defaults.py and mm_cfg.py 
files.
I also searched the mailman FAQ's and do not find any mention of these 
settings.
 Anyways, I tried this in mm_cfg.py
SCRUBBER_DONT_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME = No
And restarted mailman.
 I still am not able to save an email attachment with the same name as the 
attachment.
 Any ideas?
 Thanks
Elvis



 On 9/16/05, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote: 
> 
> Elvis Fernandes wrote:
> 
> > I notice that when you save the attachments, they are saved with a
> >different name than the name of the original attachment on the email.
> >Is there a way that the attachment can be made to save as the same name 
> as
> >on the email?
> 
> On Mailman 2.1.5 and earlier, no. On 2.1.6 see the Defaults.py and
> mm_cfg.py variables SCRUBBER_DONT_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME and
> SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION.
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
>


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep 16 21:58:48 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:58:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change all members to "conceal
	address"("hide" on	"membership list" page)
In-Reply-To: <BF4F2ACD.8E9A8%willym@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509161258480343ac102fa7@msapiro>

Bill Morse wrote:

>I have changed the new members default to hide- how do I change all the
>existing members to hide?

If you have command line access, run

$ bin/withlist -l listname
Loading list listname (locked)
The variable `m' is the listname MailList instance
>>> from Mailman import mm_cfg
>>> for member in m.getMembers():
...    m.setMemberOption(member, mm_cfg.ConcealSubscription, 1)
...
>>> m.Save()
>>>
Unlocking (but not saving) list: listname
Finalizing
$

$ is the shell prompt. >>> and ... are Python prompts. The 'empty'
response to >>> is Control-D.

If you don't have command line access, see
http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#throughtheweb for a
script that uses the web interface to 'unhide' a list of members.
changing "'conceal':0" to "'conceal':1" will make it 'hide' the list
instead. The list of members must be in a file, but there is another
script at the same location that can make this file.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep 16 22:03:52 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:03:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Saving attachments
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc5050916125521839c41@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509161303520921ac1031ed@msapiro>

Elvis Fernandes wrote:

>I am using 2.1.6.
>However, i do not find mention of SCRUBBER_DONT_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME and
>SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION in the Defaults.py and mm_cfg.py
>files.

Are you sure you have 2.1.6?

>From the 2.1.6 Defaults.py

# Mailman.Handlers.Scrubber uses attachment's filename as is.
# If you don't like this (extremely long mime-encoded filename) then set
# this True.
SCRUBBER_DONT_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME = False

# Use of attachment filename extension per se is may be dangerous
because
# virus fakes it. You can set this True if you filter the attachment by
# filename extension
SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION = False

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep 16 22:23:32 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:23:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange bounce message
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200509161223010156ac102ebd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509161323320906ac1031ca@msapiro>

Anne Ramey wrote:
>
>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Anne Ramey wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>A couple of people have sent replies to one of my lists today and 
>>>several of the messages bounced like this:
>>>
>>>      ===============================================
>>>
>>>>              THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY
>>>>          YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE
>>>>      ===============================================
>>>>
>>>>A temporary error occured while delivering to the following address(es):
>>>>
>>>>  <pfenno at ncees.org>: 454 TLS not available, must be connected via TCP
>>>>
>>>>I will continue trying to send the message until it is delivered or
>>>>expires.
>>>
>>>They've replied without incident before.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Are you saying the list is <pfenno at ncees.org> and replyers received
>> that bounce instead of the reply going to the list? 
>They are telling me the reply when to all but 3 people on the list, who 
>got this message.

I'm confused. W replied to the list. The reply reached the list and was
received by all but X, Y and Z who received the above message. Is this
correct? Were X, Y and Z prior posters in the thread and mentioned in
To: or Cc:?


>Are they all in
>> the same domain?
>I think so, yes.
>  Did the bounces all come from the same MTA? which one?
>I think they must have come from the ncees.org mta, but I don't see the 
>corresponding messages in the logs.

What was in the From: header of the above message?

That specific message should only be sent to the sender of the post, W
in this case. Is it possible that W received the three messages (or
one message) mentioning X, Y and Z?


<snip>
>> If in fact something has changed at their end, they probably can't do
>> anything about it unless they changed it in which case they should
>> already know what to do about it.

>Not likely with this group.  If their tech dept.s changed something, 
>they may have no idea.  I'm trying to figure out if it has to do with 
>mailman's method of delivery or the sender's/replier's method of sending 
>(in addition to trying to figure out what to tell them).


That's what I was trying to say. If something changed at their end,
they personally probably can't do anything about it unless they
personally did the change.

I'm still not sure what's going on, but I am guessing that what really
happened is that W's reply was sent directly to X, Y and Z (via To: or
Cc:) and your list didn't send to them at all and the 'delivery delay'
notice(s) was sent to W and that the problem has nothing to do with
your list and involves delivery of mail from W directly to X, Y and Z.

We need more specific information about what was sent and how and who
received these notices and their full contents and headers, not just
the above excerpt, before we can know for sure.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at bag.python.org  Fri Sep 16 23:04:59 2005
From: msapiro at bag.python.org (msapiro at bag.python.org)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:04:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange bounce message
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200509161323320906ac1031ca@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509161404590500ac10304f@msapiro>

I'm looking at this again and I have more thoughts/questions.

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>Anne Ramey wrote:
>>
>>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>> Anne Ramey wrote:

<snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>A temporary error occured while delivering to the following address(es):
>>>>>
>>>>>  <pfenno at ncees.org>: 454 TLS not available, must be connected via TCP
>>>>>

<snip>

>>> 
>>> Are you saying the list is <pfenno at ncees.org> and replyers received
>>> that bounce instead of the reply going to the list? 


You didn't really answer. Is <pfenno at ncees.org> the list or perhaps
a list member or?


<snip>

>>  Did the bounces all come from the same MTA? which one?
>>I think they must have come from the ncees.org mta, but I don't see the 
>>corresponding messages in the logs.


I don't think so. The message appears to have originated from an MTA
that was trying to deliver to pfenno at ncees.org and was unable to
establish an SMTP session. If there's anything in the logs at
ncees.org it would only be a connection refusal.

I think we still need more information.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From elvisfern at gmail.com  Fri Sep 16 23:59:05 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:59:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Saving attachments
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200509161303520921ac1031ed@msapiro>
References: <5b1c0dc5050916125521839c41@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200509161303520921ac1031ed@msapiro>
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc505091614597ba8241e@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
 Yes I am using 2.1.6 and now I find these variables in Defaults.py.
I updated the following in mm_cfg.py
# Refer Defaults.py
SCRUBBER_DONT_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME = False
# Refer Defaults.py
SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION = False
 And restarted mailman (/etc/init.d/mailman restart)
I send a new email attachment, but still am unable to save the attachment 
with the same name.
What am I missing?
 Thanks
Elvis


On 9/16/05, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote: 
> 
> Elvis Fernandes wrote:
> 
> >I am using 2.1.6.
> >However, i do not find mention of SCRUBBER_DONT_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME 
> and
> >SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION in the Defaults.py and 
> mm_cfg.py
> >files.
> 
> Are you sure you have 2.1.6?
> 
> >From the 2.1.6 Defaults.py
> 
> # Mailman.Handlers.Scrubber uses attachment's filename as is.
> # If you don't like this (extremely long mime-encoded filename) then set
> # this True.
> SCRUBBER_DONT_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME = False
> 
> # Use of attachment filename extension per se is may be dangerous
> because
> # virus fakes it. You can set this True if you filter the attachment by
> # filename extension
> SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION = False
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
>


From elvisfern at gmail.com  Sat Sep 17 00:08:56 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:08:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments in archives have wrong extensions
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200509161100180078e449e5c0@msapiro>
References: <432B0560.1050905@att.net>
	<PC1740200509161100180078e449e5c0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc505091615082c35b1af@mail.gmail.com>

I am battling a somewhat related problem.
I am trying to get mailman to save the attachment with the same file name as 
attachment.
 So, what is the syntax for 
SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION 
Is it True/False or 1/0
 I am using mailman 2.1.6
 Thanks
Elvis

 On 9/16/05, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote: 
> 
> DW wrote:
> >
> >I searched Scrubber.py, and found some logic which said:
> >
> >"if mm_cfg.SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION"
> 
> I should have pointed you directly at this, but I'm glad you found it
> anyway. My excuse is it's new in 2.1.6 and I was looking at a 2.1.5
> base.
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/elvisfern%40gmail.com
> 
> Security Policy: 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Sep 17 01:01:24 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:01:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Saving attachments
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc505091614597ba8241e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005091616012409840162e8b0@msapiro>

Elvis Fernandes wrote:

> Yes I am using 2.1.6 and now I find these variables in Defaults.py.
>I updated the following in mm_cfg.py
># Refer Defaults.py
>SCRUBBER_DONT_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME = False
># Refer Defaults.py
>SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION = False
> And restarted mailman (/etc/init.d/mailman restart)
>I send a new email attachment, but still am unable to save the attachment
>with the same name.

I may not understand what you actually want. When you say you are
"unable to save the attachment with the same name.", what exactly do
you mean.

Are you referring to the name that Mailman chooses for saving an
attachment scrubbed from the archives and digest and perhaps from
messages if you've configured that? If so, then

SCRUBBER_DONT_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME = False

and

SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION = True

in mm_cfg.py should make this name close to the name of the attachment
although leading dots and characters except alphanumerics, dash,
underscore, and (non-leading)dot will be removed from the name. If
this editing is the problem you have, you can't change it because the
name must be made safe for use in a URL.

If this is not your issue, then you'll have to be more specific about
what you're doing and seeing.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jwblist at olympus.net  Sat Sep 17 01:54:58 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:54:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.2 and Python 2.4.1
Message-ID: <BF50A962.8007%jwblist@olympus.net>

Sorry, I haven't fully searched the FAQ and archives--I'm also guessing I
wouldn't find the answer if I did.

Does someone know without research whether Mailman 2.1.2 will run under
Python 2.4.1.  

(Due to a disk failure, we're having to replace the build of a server, while
mailman is running happily on the other machine.  If we just let [most of]
mailman get set up by our synchronization process, we'll end up with this
combination of Mailman 2.1.2 and Python 2.4.1 on the restored machine.)

Thanks.

  --John




From elvisfern at gmail.com  Sat Sep 17 03:05:08 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 18:05:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Saving attachments
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005091616012409840162e8b0@msapiro>
References: <5b1c0dc505091614597ba8241e@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402005091616012409840162e8b0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc505091618053ad2e2ac@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
 Let me try and explain what I want to accomplish.
I send an email to the mailinglist with an attachment abc.xls.
Then, I use Internet Explorer to browse this archived email (this was setup 
using mhonrac).
When I get to the webpage, the attachment shows up as abc.xls on the email 
body.
But, when I click on the attachment to save it, the "save as" name changes 
to xxxx.xls
I would like to make the save as name abc.xls to have a consistent name.
 BTW, I just tried what you suggested in yur previous email, and that does 
not give this consistency that I am looking for.
 Thanks
Elvis

 On 9/16/05, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote: 
> 
> Elvis Fernandes wrote:
> 
> > Yes I am using 2.1.6 and now I find these variables in Defaults.py.
> >I updated the following in mm_cfg.py
> ># Refer Defaults.py
> >SCRUBBER_DONT_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME = False
> ># Refer Defaults.py
> >SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION = False
> > And restarted mailman (/etc/init.d/mailman restart)
> >I send a new email attachment, but still am unable to save the attachment
> >with the same name.
> 
> I may not understand what you actually want. When you say you are
> "unable to save the attachment with the same name.", what exactly do
> you mean.
> 
> Are you referring to the name that Mailman chooses for saving an
> attachment scrubbed from the archives and digest and perhaps from
> messages if you've configured that? If so, then
> 
> SCRUBBER_DONT_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME = False
> 
> and
> 
> SCRUBBER_USE_ATTACHMENT_FILENAME_EXTENSION = True
> 
> in mm_cfg.py should make this name close to the name of the attachment
> although leading dots and characters except alphanumerics, dash,
> underscore, and (non-leading)dot will be removed from the name. If
> this editing is the problem you have, you can't change it because the
> name must be made safe for use in a URL.
> 
> If this is not your issue, then you'll have to be more specific about
> what you're doing and seeing.
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
>


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Sep 17 03:34:49 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 18:34:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Saving attachments
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc505091618053ad2e2ac@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509161834490506d954edcb@msapiro>

Elvis Fernandes wrote:

> Let me try and explain what I want to accomplish.
>I send an email to the mailinglist with an attachment abc.xls.
>Then, I use Internet Explorer to browse this archived email (this was setup
>using mhonrac).
>When I get to the webpage, the attachment shows up as abc.xls on the email
>body.
>But, when I click on the attachment to save it, the "save as" name changes
>to xxxx.xls
>I would like to make the save as name abc.xls to have a consistent name.


This is a MhonArc question and you'd be much more likely to get an
answer from a MhonArc list.


> BTW, I just tried what you suggested in yur previous email, and that does
>not give this consistency that I am looking for.


The settings I referred to earlier in this thread only affect file
names for scrubbed attachments in digests and pipermail archives.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From elvisfern at gmail.com  Sat Sep 17 04:15:43 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 19:15:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Saving attachments
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200509161834490506d954edcb@msapiro>
References: <5b1c0dc505091618053ad2e2ac@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200509161834490506d954edcb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc5050916191537c01334@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for you replies.
 Best,
Elvis

 On 9/16/05, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote: 
> 
> Elvis Fernandes wrote:
> 
> > Let me try and explain what I want to accomplish.
> >I send an email to the mailinglist with an attachment abc.xls.
> >Then, I use Internet Explorer to browse this archived email (this was 
> setup
> >using mhonrac).
> >When I get to the webpage, the attachment shows up as abc.xls on the 
> email
> >body.
> >But, when I click on the attachment to save it, the "save as" name 
> changes
> >to xxxx.xls
> >I would like to make the save as name abc.xls to have a consistent name.
> 
> 
> This is a MhonArc question and you'd be much more likely to get an
> answer from a MhonArc list.
> 
> 
> > BTW, I just tried what you suggested in yur previous email, and that 
> does
> >not give this consistency that I am looking for.
> 
> 
> The settings I referred to earlier in this thread only affect file
> names for scrubbed attachments in digests and pipermail archives.
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
>


From moseley at hank.org  Sat Sep 17 04:51:24 2005
From: moseley at hank.org (Bill Moseley)
Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 19:51:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email rejected with un-quoted From with a dot
Message-ID: <20050917025124.GA11397@hank.org>

On an old Debian Woody machine running mailmain 2.0.11 Mailman rejects
mail with an un-quoted name part that includes a dot.

    From: Foo B. Baz <foo at invalid.com>

Mailmain then reports:  post from foob.bar requires approval.  While
these work fine:

    From: "Foo B. Bar" <foo at invalid.com>
    From: Foo Barr <foo at invalid.com>

I'm sure I've seen this mentioned someplace before but not having luck
finding it now.

Can anyone point me to info on this.  It would be nice to get a patch
until the machine can be upgraded to Sarge.

Thanks.




-- 
Bill Moseley
moseley at hank.org



From moseley at hank.org  Sun Sep 18 18:09:40 2005
From: moseley at hank.org (Bill Moseley)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 09:09:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable and notify me
Message-ID: <20050918160940.GA22101@hank.org>

Isn't this suppose to generate an email?

I have "Disable and notify me" set, yet in my bounce log I see someone
was set to "no mail":

  bounce.3.gz:Sep 02 14:00:02 2005 (26879) <some list>: disabled <some email>

Yet, I have no (exim) logs or mail to admins to indicate that the list member
was disabled.

Did I misunderstand what "Disable and notify me" does?

Is this a bug with 2.0.11?

Any tricks to test this feature to make sure it works as expected?


Thanks,




-- 
Bill Moseley
moseley at hank.org



From moseley at hank.org  Sun Sep 18 18:10:19 2005
From: moseley at hank.org (Bill Moseley)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 09:10:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email rejected with un-quoted From with a dot
In-Reply-To: <20050917025124.GA11397@hank.org>
References: <20050917025124.GA11397@hank.org>
Message-ID: <20050918161018.GB22101@hank.org>

Anyone else seen this issue before?


On Fri, Sep 16, 2005 at 07:51:24PM -0700, Bill Moseley wrote:
> On an old Debian Woody machine running mailmain 2.0.11 Mailman rejects
> mail with an un-quoted name part that includes a dot.
> 
>     From: Foo B. Baz <foo at invalid.com>
> 
> Mailmain then reports:  post from foob.bar requires approval.  While
> these work fine:
> 
>     From: "Foo B. Bar" <foo at invalid.com>
>     From: Foo Barr <foo at invalid.com>
> 
> I'm sure I've seen this mentioned someplace before but not having luck
> finding it now.
> 
> Can anyone point me to info on this.  It would be nice to get a patch
> until the machine can be upgraded to Sarge.

-- 
Bill Moseley
moseley at hank.org



From leo at pugetsoundsoftware.com  Sun Sep 18 21:05:29 2005
From: leo at pugetsoundsoftware.com (Leo A. Notenboom)
Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 12:05:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "command not in docroot"
Message-ID: <20050918190526.7A0A01E4005@bag.python.org>

I've suddenly started getting that error in suexec_log, and as
a result no one can confirm or worse, leave, the mailing lists
that up until recently had been working fine.

This is on Redhat Enterprise w/ Plesk - I suspect a nightly
up2date hosed something that mailman cares about.

Any thoughts on what to do to correct this problem?

Leo



From flalves at fabiloper.com  Mon Sep 19 02:41:23 2005
From: flalves at fabiloper.com (=?us-ascii?Q?Fabio_Alves?=)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 01:41:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocking every "reply" messages
Message-ID: <20050919004134.90D681E4005@bag.python.org>

Hello,
I'm trying to setup a mailing list with about 85000 e-mail addresses.
We've sent one e-mail using mailman, but some hours later, we started to
receive tons of "RE:" messages, that should go to the reply-to e-mail. But
seems that some users dont do it.

Is there any way to block every reply messages? I only want to allow some
replies to be sent to mailing list.
Is that possible?




From sythos at sythos.net  Mon Sep 19 10:59:20 2005
From: sythos at sythos.net (Sythos)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 10:59:20 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blocking every "reply" messages
In-Reply-To: <20050919004134.90D681E4005@bag.python.org>
References: <20050919004134.90D681E4005@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <20050919085920.GA28343@sythos.net>

On Mon, Sep 19, 2005 at 01:41:23AM +0100, Fabio Alves wrote:
> I'm trying to setup a mailing list with about 85000 e-mail addresses.
> We've sent one e-mail using mailman, but some hours later, we started to
> receive tons of "RE:" messages, that should go to the reply-to e-mail. But
> seems that some users dont do it.
> Is there any way to block every reply messages? I only want to allow some
> replies to be sent to mailing list.
> Is that possible?

force reply-to overwrite, set it to "noreply at yourdomain.tld" and create
manually an alias to "noreply ==> /dev/null"
For "pnly-reply-button" users it work, if a user write by hand "to"
field in reply it pass to mailinglist...

Optionally, set "moderated" the list, and set default action to "drop"

-- 

Sythos - http://www.sythos.net
  ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
  /\                        - against M$ attachments


From ukstart2003 at gmx.de  Mon Sep 19 11:42:48 2005
From: ukstart2003 at gmx.de (Albrecht Marignoni)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:42:48 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] People from Germany
Message-ID: <02b501c5bcfe$8cf97180$5c05fea9@n1o0j0>

Hi,

I am new to this list.

I am looking for people from Germany who are
familiar with the Mailman Software. I need some
help for installation and I am willing to pay you.

Thank?s

Cheers,

Albrecht
www.orthoPoint.com




From jdennis at redhat.com  Mon Sep 19 17:12:02 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:12:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "command not in docroot"
In-Reply-To: <20050918190526.7A0A01E4005@bag.python.org>
References: <20050918190526.7A0A01E4005@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <1127142722.31862.13.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Sun, 2005-09-18 at 12:05 -0700, Leo A. Notenboom wrote:
> I've suddenly started getting that error in suexec_log, and as
> a result no one can confirm or worse, leave, the mailing lists
> that up until recently had been working fine.
> 
> This is on Redhat Enterprise w/ Plesk - I suspect a nightly
> up2date hosed something that mailman cares about.
> 
> Any thoughts on what to do to correct this problem?

1) Contact SWSoft, the providers of Plesk

2) Provide a more descriptive error message, otherwise no one can
possibly debug this for you. My best guess is that something in your
apache config file (/etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf) changed that either has
disabled the reading the /etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf file which
contains the ScriptAlias and Directory configuration for mailman, which
in turn tells apache about the existence of the mailman cgi URL/commands
and tells apache it has permission to execute this outside the document
root. I believe there is also a global flag in that may be present in
httpd.conf that enables or defeats cgi execution outside the document
root.

But really, this is not a mailman issue, its either an issue with Plesk
or your apache configuration (I know very little about how Plesk works
but I suspect it has a very strong interaction with apache configuration
which is why since Plesk is in the picture you need to consider Plesk
interaction).
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From jdennis at redhat.com  Mon Sep 19 17:22:50 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:22:50 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "command not in docroot"
In-Reply-To: <1127142722.31862.13.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
References: <20050918190526.7A0A01E4005@bag.python.org>
	<1127142722.31862.13.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <1127143370.31862.22.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Mon, 2005-09-19 at 11:12 -0400, John Dennis wrote:
> > This is on Redhat Enterprise w/ Plesk - I suspect a nightly
> > up2date hosed something that mailman cares about.
> > 
> > Any thoughts on what to do to correct this problem?

One more suggestion: If up2date installed something that broke your
configuration then you might want to go looking for any files under /etc
with a .rpmnew or a .rpmsave extension. When rpm installs a new config
file for a package and it detects an existing config file that has been
modified locally it will respect the local edit of the config file and
install the new version of the file with a .rpmnew extension preserving
the local edit. If rpm thinks it needs to overwrite a file it will copy
the file with a .rpmsave extension. Looking for these files and
comparing them may provide a clue as to what changed and induced the new
behavior. The existence of either a .rpmnew or a .rpmsave could
represent delta in system configuration that needs closer examination.

HTH,
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Mon Sep 19 17:23:02 2005
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:23:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Public Archives 403 Forbidden after Upgrade - More
	Info
Message-ID: <BAYC1-PASMTP022C420473162479A509FAAE920@cez.ice>

I have recently upgraded to MM 2.1.6 with the HTDig integration 
patches. I have noticed that since this upgrade that my public 
archives are inaccessible, I get a 403 Forbidden Error.

I am running MM2.1..6 built from the tarball, Apache 1.3.27 and 
Python 2.3.4. on RedHat 7.3 (thats what the host supplies)

Mailamn was configured with the following commande:
./configure  --prefix=/var/mailman --with-
python=/usr/local/bin/python --with-cgi-gid=apache --wit
h-mail-gid=mail

My Apache directives are:

Alias /pipermail/ /var/mailman/archives/public/
<Directory /var/mailman/archives/public/>
  Options +FollowSymLinks +Indexes
</Directory>

The error in Apache's access_log is:
xx.xx.xx.x - - [19/Sep/2005:10:12:30 -0500] "GET /pipermail/accessd 
HTTP/1.1" 403 304 "-" "BROWSER ID STRING"

There is nothing that I can see in the MM error logs or in the 
messages log

bin/check_perms shows no errors

the permissions on the archives directories are:
drwxrws---   60 root     mailman      4096 Sep 19 09:58 private
drwxrwsr-x    2 root     mailman      4096 Sep 19 09:59 public

and all the symlinks in public point to the right spot in the private 
archives. I can follow the symlinks from the command prompt as root 
or another user. If I create a symlink in the public directory to 
another file or directory in the file system, I can access those 
files/directories from my browser. I just can't get to the private 
archives.

If I treat the archive as a private archive by going to: 
http://example.com/mailman/private/listname/ I can log in and access 
the archives.

I have tried making the archive private and then making it public
again and it doesn't work.

Does anyone have any ideas of what I can check next. I'm at a total
loss as to what could be wrong not.

-- 
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
Give a man a fire, he will be warm for the evening. Set a man on 
fire, he will be warm for the rest of his life.


From phcalama at solstice.uwaterloo.ca  Mon Sep 19 17:59:25 2005
From: phcalama at solstice.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Calamai)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:59:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman newbie admin deletes
	customization/configuration - Please help
Message-ID: <1405B8AD-CB92-4CBE-9FB9-42B607BDA0C0@solstice.uwaterloo.ca>

After spending hours one day configuring two mailing lists and custom  
editing the General List Information Pages for these two
mailing lists I managed (don't ask) to blow everything away a couple  
of days later. The good news is that my server gets backed up
daily. The bad news is that I have no idea where this information  
gets stored. If anyone can point me in the correct direction I would
be very grateful.

For what it matters, I'm running mailman on a dual processor G5 Power  
Mac running Mac OS X Server v10.4.2

Thanks


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Sep 19 19:09:56 2005
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 02:09:56 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email rejected with un-quoted From with a dot
In-Reply-To: <20050917025124.GA11397@hank.org> (Bill Moseley's message of
	"Fri, 16 Sep 2005 19:51:24 -0700")
References: <20050917025124.GA11397@hank.org>
Message-ID: <87hdchkmqj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Bill" == Bill Moseley <moseley at hank.org> writes:

    Bill> On an old Debian Woody machine running mailmain 2.0.11
    Bill> Mailman rejects mail with an un-quoted name part that
    Bill> includes a dot.

Yup.  According to RFC 2822's grammar, that's not "an un-quoted
name part that includes a dot", that's a syntax error.

The user who's sending that stuff should be advised to get a compliant
MUA or fix their configuration.

Note the quotes in my "From:".  That is NOT because of mailman; I've
had several other programs do yucky things to my mail because of the
unquoted dot.  If you want your mail delivered reliably, it's worth
conforming to this one.

Granted, it's also true that Mailman MUST accept and parse that
address (cf RFC 2822 section 4 and example A.6.1).  But as I say, this
is not just a Mailman issue.

-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From chris.a.adams at state.or.us  Mon Sep 19 20:01:40 2005
From: chris.a.adams at state.or.us (Christopher Adams)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:01:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] email commands for list owners or administrators
	(subsribe, unsubscribe)
Message-ID: <432EFD04.903@state.or.us>

I have read the archives and searched the documentation for information
about this, but I wanted to see what others are doing about this.

One of the list owners is blind. She is not that saavy with her screen
reader, so using the Mailman web interface is not a good option for her.
So, I am pretty much acting as the list owner. However, I would like to
try to give her some control over the subscribing and unsubscribing of
addresses. I understand that sending email commands for administrative
purposes does is not that easy.

As a list owner, I can send a subscribe command to the request address,
along with a new password, using the syntax:

subscribe password address=whoever at anywhere.com

However, if I want to have the subscription require approval, the list
owner still would have to go to the web admin page to approve it, which
is not desirable in this case. Maybe there is an email command that I am
unaware of that a list owner can send to "pre-approve" the subscription. 
Also, the subscriber gets a message indicating that the message has been 
sent to the list owner for approval. Maybe I can turn this part off.

Another idea I had was to initially subscribe the user list all using
the same password, to make unsubsribing them easier for the list owner.
When she adds new subscribers via email, she could utilize that same
password.

It would be nice if an Administrator could have superuser capabilities
when adding users via email, utilizing the master system password.

If I have missed something that has already been posted, I apologize. I
am just fishing for ideas.
-- 
-- 


Christopher Adams
Library Systems Analyst
Oregon State Library
503-378-4243 258
chris.a.adams at state.or.us



From chris.a.adams at state.or.us  Mon Sep 19 21:05:36 2005
From: chris.a.adams at state.or.us (Christopher Adams)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:05:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] other thoughts about email commands
Message-ID: <432F0C00.6000905@state.or.us>

I sent an earlier message about list owner commands for subscribing, 
unsubsribing, etc. I do see now where I can prevent a approval message 
being sent to the subscriber. However, it looks like I will probably 
just make myself the owner and have the list owner send the subscribe 
and unsubscribe commands to the request address. I will initially set 
the password for everyone to be the same and the list owner will use 
that password for future subscriptions and unsubscriptions. I will end 
up doing the approving of all these requests.

However, I have another question about issuing email commands for 
subscribing. In the web interface, I can add information along with the 
email address, by using the syntax "Joe Blow"<joe.blow at anywhere.com>. If 
I issue this by email, Mailman chokes on it. Here is an example.

subscribe password address="Joe Blow"<joe.blow at anywhere.com>.

Mailman seems confused by brackets and quotes. Any ideas how to do this 
via email?

-- 


Christopher Adams



From johnnyjunk at grahamchurch.org  Mon Sep 19 21:08:39 2005
From: johnnyjunk at grahamchurch.org (Johnny Schlaack)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 15:08:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footer Issue - not attachment
Message-ID: <auto-000038819397@admin.cablespeed.com>

Greetings,

 

I'm trying to get some help in putting footers in the main text of an email
instead of as an attachment.  I have read online in Article 4.39 that the
mailing list was updated in version 2.1.5 to allow footers to be added in
the body of the text but I don't see what I need to make it happen.  I still
get footers as attachments.

 

I don't understand this stuff much.  I do maintain the website for
grahamchurch.org. I host our website with arkwebs.com.  They don't seem to
know much about the mailing lists.  Can you give me any help or direct me to
someone who can.

 

Thanks,

John Schlaack

 



From chris.a.adams at state.or.us  Mon Sep 19 21:18:20 2005
From: chris.a.adams at state.or.us (Christopher Adams)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:18:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footer Issue - not attachment
In-Reply-To: <auto-000038819397@admin.cablespeed.com>
References: <auto-000038819397@admin.cablespeed.com>
Message-ID: <432F0EFC.6090000@state.or.us>

One thing that I have found useful is to make sure the senders are 
sending messages as plain text only.


Christopher Adams


Johnny Schlaack wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
>  
> 
> I'm trying to get some help in putting footers in the main text of an email
> instead of as an attachment.  I have read online in Article 4.39 that the
> mailing list was updated in version 2.1.5 to allow footers to be added in
> the body of the text but I don't see what I need to make it happen.  I still
> get footers as attachments.
> 
>  
> 
> I don't understand this stuff much.  I do maintain the website for
> grahamchurch.org. I host our website with arkwebs.com.  They don't seem to
> know much about the mailing lists.  Can you give me any help or direct me to
> someone who can.
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John Schlaack
> 
>  
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/chris.a.adams%40state.or.us
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From elvisfern at gmail.com  Mon Sep 19 23:15:20 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:15:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sorth by author
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc505091914155872bcd9@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
 When viewed using a web browser, mailman allows to be sorted by threads and 
by date.
Is is possible to sort by author? What needs to be done?
 Thanks
Elvis


From misha at wolfstar.ca  Tue Sep 20 00:15:34 2005
From: misha at wolfstar.ca (Michel R Vaillancourt)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:15:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No public lists
Message-ID: <432F3886.8000902@wolfstar.ca>


	Greetings to the list.  I've been happily running Mailman now on a 
Slackware box for several years.  I'm in the process of reorganizing my 
domain, so changed the name the server that is hosting my half-dozen 
lists from "www.wolfstar.ca" to "lists.wolfstar.ca".

	Mail is still moving properly to the list server.  However, the web 
interface died almost immediately.  Specifically, if you go to 
http://lists.wolfstar.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi it says:

"There currently are no publicly-advertised Mailman mailing lists on 
lists.wolfstar.ca."

	I'm stumped.  I've verified that my settings in Mailman/mm_cfg.py 
reflect the new environment.  I've even gone through with 
bin/config_list and ensured that 'advertised = 1' is set for all lists.

	Any suggestions on how to correct this?

-- 
	-- Michel Vaillancourt
	Wolfstar Systems

	


From ziegler at sonoma.edu  Tue Sep 20 02:00:32 2005
From: ziegler at sonoma.edu (Jack Ziegler)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:00:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] lost subscriptions
Message-ID: <432F5120.2050004@sonoma.edu>

Hello,

We are running mailman 2.1.5.  We have a problem where subscriptions get 
"lost".  The subscribe log shows a new subscription, and the subscriber 
(or subscribee, if the subscription is done via admin mass 
subscription)  gets a welcome message, but their address does not get 
added to the list. 

Has anyone else seen this problem?  We have the web interface on 
multiple web servers, while the queue runners and cron jobs run a 
separate server.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Jack Ziegler
Sonoma State University


From xma at uclink.berkeley.edu  Tue Sep 20 02:44:03 2005
From: xma at uclink.berkeley.edu (Xiaoyan Ma)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:44:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hide lists from listinfo page only (leave on admin
	page)
Message-ID: <web-10715430@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>

We have migrated all mailing lists from Majordomo to Mailman (mailman-2.1.5-25.rhel3n on redhat 
3.0 AS).  We would like to hide those lists that are closed for subscription from the listinfo 
page for 2 reasons: to keep the page short and to avoid subscription attempts. We would like to 
keep them on the admin page for the list owners. Setting "advertised = 1" will hide the list from 
both listinfo page and admin page.

We would like to set this up at the list level so we don?t have to modify the global 
configurations during upgrades.  I have tried to modify ?web_page_url =  listinfo/%(list_name)s? 
to something like  ?web_page_url =   listinfo/%( )s? to blank out the listinfo url but could not 
get the syntax right.

Am I on the right track?  What are the other options?

Thanks.

Xiaoyan


From douglas at gpc.edu  Tue Sep 20 02:47:47 2005
From: douglas at gpc.edu (Douglas B. Jones)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:47:47 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] printing a manual
In-Reply-To: <PHEKJLKKDLGCAEJLJPHMCEHIDEAA.douglas@gpc.edu>
Message-ID: <PHEKJLKKDLGCAEJLJPHMOEHIDEAA.douglas@gpc.edu>


Hi,

I am trying to print:

http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install.pdf

Regardless on which computer (W2K or XP), I get:

'The document could not be printed'

Is it somehow locked where it does not allow printing
or is there some other factor? I am able to print other
PDF files with no problem.

Thanks!



From bostonfetishclub at gmail.com  Tue Sep 20 02:54:03 2005
From: bostonfetishclub at gmail.com (The fetish girls)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:54:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Willing to pay $$$ for help tonight
Message-ID: <3828f97d05091917542850397@mail.gmail.com>

I have made my list but Im not sure how to use the program and am willing to 
pay for help. Please e-mail me at BostonFetishClub at gmail.com If you can help
 JIM


From jwilson at io.com  Tue Sep 20 02:58:26 2005
From: jwilson at io.com (Jeff Wilson)
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 19:58:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email rejected with un-quoted From with a dot
In-Reply-To: <mailman.30.1127124007.337.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.30.1127124007.337.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <432F5EB2.8030906@io.com>

> From:
> Bill Moseley <moseley at hank.org>

> Anyone else seen this issue before?
> 
> 
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2005 at 07:51:24PM -0700, Bill Moseley wrote:
> 
>>On an old Debian Woody machine running mailmain 2.0.11 Mailman rejects
>>mail with an un-quoted name part that includes a dot.
>>
>>    From: Foo B. Baz <foo at invalid.com>
>>
>>Mailmain then reports:  post from foob.bar requires approval.  While
>>these work fine:
>>
>>    From: "Foo B. Bar" <foo at invalid.com>
>>    From: Foo Barr <foo at invalid.com>
>>
>>I'm sure I've seen this mentioned someplace before but not having luck
>>finding it now.
>>
>>Can anyone point me to info on this.  It would be nice to get a patch
>>until the machine can be upgraded to Sarge.

I had a similar problem subscribing dotted names while using Mailman 
2.1.2 in June of last year or so. I don't know what ver of Python was in 
play at the time.

-- 
Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com
< http://www.io.com/~jwilson >


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Sep 20 08:15:18 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:15:18 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hide lists from listinfo page only (leave on
 admin page)
In-Reply-To: <web-10715430@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>
References: <web-10715430@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <p06200703bf5558c21b6f@[10.0.1.210]>

At 5:44 PM -0700 2005-09-19, Xiaoyan Ma wrote:

>  We have migrated all mailing lists from Majordomo to Mailman 
>(mailman-2.1.5-25.rhel3n on redhat
>  3.0 AS).  We would like to hide those lists that are closed for 
>subscription from the listinfo
>  page for 2 reasons: to keep the page short and to avoid 
>subscription attempts. We would like to
>  keep them on the admin page for the list owners. Setting 
>"advertised = 1" will hide the list from
>  both listinfo page and admin page.

	Mailman doesn't work that way.  Either a list is advertised (and 
therefore shown in both places), or it's not (and you have to know or 
be able to guess the URL before you can go there).

	If you want to supply some patches, upload them at 
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=300103> and we'll 
see when we may be able to include them in a future release. 
Otherwise, file a Request for Enhancement at 
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=350103>, and hope 
that someone may be able to address this issue at some point in the 
hopefully not-too-distant future.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From stefan at bluematrix.co.za  Tue Sep 20 11:13:49 2005
From: stefan at bluematrix.co.za (Stefan Henrico)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 11:13:49 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Database
Message-ID: <200509200913.j8K9DHWl008715@smtp.vodacom.co.za>

Hi guys :)
 
I'm currently working with the Mailman software for our discussion lists.
At present I have written some ASP scripts that unzips the text files and
then strips them accordingly and inserts them into a database on our side.
 
I'm just curious - does the Pipermail script use text files only, or is the
information stored in some sort of database? That would make my life really
easier.
 
Kind Regards,
Stefan Henrico
 


From webmail at writehand.com  Tue Sep 20 15:37:19 2005
From: webmail at writehand.com (George Payne)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:37:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Password protection?
Message-ID: <B0168937520@elk1.alaweb.com>

I am new to Mailman after years of using Ipswitche's Imail.  I can find the
documentation about how to send a password protected message.  With Imail I
would put the password inside of brackets and colons like this:
[:password:].  Can you help me or point me to the page to read.

George Payne
Write Hand Publishing
105 Willow Drive
Andalusia, AL 36421
334 222-9212
 <mailto:webmail at writehand.com> webmail at writehand.com
 
<file:///C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\georgepayne\Application%20Data\Micros
oft\Signatures\www.writehand.com> www.writehand.com

 



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Sep 20 16:58:17 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:58:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Database
In-Reply-To: <200509200913.j8K9DHWl008715@smtp.vodacom.co.za>
References: <200509200913.j8K9DHWl008715@smtp.vodacom.co.za>
Message-ID: <p06200704bf55d370dc3b@[10.0.1.210]>

At 11:13 AM +0200 2005-09-20, Stefan Henrico wrote:

>  I'm just curious - does the Pipermail script use text files only, or is the
>  information stored in some sort of database? That would make my life really
>  easier.

	There are unsupported patches for an LDAP member adapter (and 
similar tools), but they are for storing information about the users 
and the lists into a database.  So far as I know, no one else has 
come up with any patches for any other parts of the system to use a 
database as a backend.

	Pipermail itself takes 7th edition "mbox" formatted mailboxes 
(text files, actually) as input, and creates ".html" files (another 
special case of text file) and other types of text files as output. 
No databases here.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From john at wa9als.com  Tue Sep 20 17:38:24 2005
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:38:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Database
References: <200509200913.j8K9DHWl008715@smtp.vodacom.co.za>
	<p06200704bf55d370dc3b@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <005501c5bdf9$605a6390$0100a8c0@wa9als>

> Pipermail itself takes 7th edition "mbox" formatted mailboxes
> (text files, actually) as input, and creates ".html" files (another
> special case of text file) and other types of text files as output.
> No databases here.

Am I correct then that the email addys in the archives are relatively 
unprotected from spam-harvesters?  I have not enabled archives on my lists 
due to this concern, but I would like to use archiving if someone can 
encourage me that the email addresses are protected.  Any info appreciated - 
I don't remember seeing this discussed, so it must be obvious to everyone 
but me.  Tnx - John



From combs at magnet.fsu.edu  Tue Sep 20 21:42:37 2005
From: combs at magnet.fsu.edu (Tom Combs)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:42:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual host document root for mailman/listinfo
Message-ID: <4330662D.8060407@magnet.fsu.edu>

Hello,

 I'm running mailman-2.1.6rc4 and apache-2.0.54. I have a virtual host 
set up
 for my mailman web interface. I would like the listinfo page to be the 
default
 page for my mailman web address so one can enter http://mylists.com instead
 of http://mylists.com/mailman/listinfo.  I haven't been able to figure 
out what
 the document root setting for the mylists virtual host setting should 
be in the
 apache http.conf file. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

  Thanks,  Tom Combs

-- 
Tom Combs                                  E-mail: combs at magnet.fsu.edu
National High Magnetic Field Laboratory    Phone: (850) 644-1657
1800 E. Paul Dirac Drive                   Tallahassee, FL 32310



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Sep 20 21:18:45 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 21:18:45 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Database
In-Reply-To: <005501c5bdf9$605a6390$0100a8c0@wa9als>
References: <200509200913.j8K9DHWl008715@smtp.vodacom.co.za>
	<p06200704bf55d370dc3b@[10.0.1.210]>
	<005501c5bdf9$605a6390$0100a8c0@wa9als>
Message-ID: <p06200705bf5610953111@[10.0.1.210]>

At 10:38 AM -0500 2005-09-20, John Fleming wrote:

>  Am I correct then that the email addys in the archives are relatively
>  unprotected from spam-harvesters?

	There is a certain minimal amount of protection you can apply to 
the archives, but it's not too hard to get around.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From shchoi at gmail.com  Tue Sep 20 22:41:31 2005
From: shchoi at gmail.com (Soo-Hyun Choi)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 21:41:31 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] questions on posting an e-mail
Message-ID: <34b425c50509201341467dc384@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I've just installed the mailman in my Ubuntu system and set up a
mailing list. I've gone through all the necessary steps stated in the
Mailman Documentation including Apache installation.

I have tested 'mylist' with a dummy (but working) e-mail address
whether it really works or not. I've got a confirmation message and
I've got a welcoming message thereafter. But!

If I try to post a message on that list, it doesn't appear at all. I
have disable digest option expecting to get the message right away,
but it didn't work.

The question here is:
Is it possible that the mailman machine is sitting in a University's
Computer Science Department such that the mailman machine is
deliberately blocked by any incoming e-mail?

Thank you.


From elvisfern at gmail.com  Wed Sep 21 01:27:04 2005
From: elvisfern at gmail.com (Elvis Fernandes)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:27:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to create new mail list
Message-ID: <5b1c0dc505092016275e0e7769@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
 I am setting up a brand new mailman server.
After doing per the documentation, I tried creating a "testing" test mail
list.
However, I get an error that says "illegal list name: testing at myhost
 Any idea's on what I am missing?
Here is the string.
 Thanks
Elvis

# ./newlist testing
Enter the email of the person running the list: elvis.fernandes at am.necel.com
Initial testing password:
Create a new, unpopulated mailing list.

Usage: ./newlist [options] [listname [listadmin-addr [admin-password]]]

Options:

-l language
--language=language
Make the list's preferred language `language', which must be a two
letter language code.

-u urlhost
--urlhost=urlhost
Gives the list's web interface host name.

-e emailhost
--emailhost=emailhost
Gives the list's email domain name.

-q/--quiet
Normally the administrator is notified by email (after a prompt) that
their list has been created. This option suppresses the prompt and
notification.

-h/--help
Print this help text and exit.

You can specify as many of the arguments as you want on the command line:
you will be prompted for the missing ones.

Every Mailman list has two parameters which define the default host name for
outgoing email, and the default URL for all web interfaces. When you
configured Mailman, certain defaults were calculated, but if you are running
multiple virtual Mailman sites, then the defaults may not be appropriate for
the list you are creating.

You also specify the domain to create your new list in by typing the command
like so:

newlist --urlhost=www.mydom.ain mylist

where `www.mydom.ain' should be the base hostname for the URL to this
virtual
hosts's lists. E.g. with this setting people will view the general list
overviews at http://www.mydom.ain/mailman/listinfo. Also,
www.mydom.ain<http://www.mydom.ain/>
should be a key in the VIRTUAL_HOSTS mapping in mm_cfg.py/Defaults.py if
the email hostname to be automatically determined.

If you want the email hostname to be different from the one looked up by the
VIRTUAL_HOSTS or if urlhost is not registered in VIRTUAL_HOSTS, you can
specify
`emailhost' like so:

newlist --urlhost=www.mydom.ain --emailhost=mydom.ain mylist

where `mydom.ain' is the mail domain name. If you don't specify emailhost
but
urlhost is not in the virtual host list, then mm_cfg.DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST will
be used for the email interface.

For backward compatibility, you can also specify the domain to create your
new list in by spelling the listname like so:

mylist at www.mydom.ain

where www.mydom.ain <http://www.mydom.ain/> is used for `urlhost' but it
will also be used for
`emailhost' if it is not found in the virtual host table. Note that
'--urlhost' and '--emailhost' have precedence to this notation.

If you spell the list name as just `mylist', then the email hostname will be
taken from DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and the url will be taken from DEFAULT_URL (as
defined in your Defaults.py file or overridden by settings in mm_cfg.py).

Note that listnames are forced to lowercase.
Illegal list name: testing at myhost

#


From lists at viplist.us  Wed Sep 21 02:24:39 2005
From: lists at viplist.us (Lloyd F. Tennison)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 17:24:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hotmail Delivery Problems
Message-ID: <433045D7.1852.7C3751@localhost>

In the last week, I have started having problems with Hotmail/MSN blocking 
my server.  I have added no new lists, no new subscribers, in fact today I only 
sent out about 15% of what a normal Tuesday does.  They say that they are 
pushing the BondedSender.com program as a means of whitelisting and 
blame and problems on Symantec's Brightmail.  Yet, I have had no spam 
complaints, no SPAMCOP, no new lists, no new clients, etc.

Has anyone else here had the same problems?  It all started when they did a 
software service upgrade last Wednesday night (They told me they did indeed 
do a upgrade then.)

I just cannot afford $2750 to have Hotmail messages go through - and then 
$20 each if there is a SPAMCOP complaint.


Thanks.

Lloyd F. Tennison
lloyd_tennison at whoever.com

No trees were harmed in the transmission of this message.
However, a rather large number of electrons were temporarily
inconvenienced.



From moseley at hank.org  Wed Sep 21 07:15:31 2005
From: moseley at hank.org (Bill Moseley)
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 22:15:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email rejected with un-quoted From with a dot
In-Reply-To: <87hdchkmqj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <20050917025124.GA11397@hank.org>
	<87hdchkmqj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20050921051531.GB31752@hank.org>

On Tue, Sep 20, 2005 at 02:09:56AM +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
> >>>>> "Bill" == Bill Moseley <moseley at hank.org> writes:
> 
>     Bill> On an old Debian Woody machine running mailmain 2.0.11
>     Bill> Mailman rejects mail with an un-quoted name part that
>     Bill> includes a dot.
> 
> Yup.  According to RFC 2822's grammar, that's not "an un-quoted
> name part that includes a dot", that's a syntax error.
> 
> The user who's sending that stuff should be advised to get a compliant
> MUA or fix their configuration.

You know what's very odd?  When they send mail directly to me their
name includes the quotes.

    "Foo B. User" <user at invalid.com>

When they send mail to the list then it's held and looking at the
headers in the Mailmain admindb page it has their From: header without
the quotes:

    From: Foo B. User <user at invalid.com>

With the reject message:

 Pending posts:
     From: foob.user on Mon Sep 19 14:09:01 2005
     Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list


Otherwise, their headers are all indicate both messages coming from the
same client and via the same smtp setup.

   X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.622)

I have to assume that my old version of Mailman is stripping the
quotes.  Very odd.


-- 
Bill Moseley
moseley at hank.org



From ukstart2003 at gmx.de  Wed Sep 21 08:28:01 2005
From: ukstart2003 at gmx.de (Albrecht Marignoni)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 08:28:01 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] People in UK
Message-ID: <004201c5be75$a062ae80$7aadfea9@n1o0j0>

Hi,

are there any people from UK on this list who
can help me building applications with Mailman
for the orthoPoint website ?

You will be paid for your work.

I am on the move to Liverpool and my own
company will be based in London at the end of
this year.

My college and I looking for people who are be
able to help us building a discussion list based 
community with Mailman and Drupal.

Thank you in advance.

Kind Regards,

Albrecht Marignoni
www.orthopoint.com








From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Sep 21 09:06:17 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:06:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hotmail Delivery Problems
In-Reply-To: <433045D7.1852.7C3751@localhost>
References: <433045D7.1852.7C3751@localhost>
Message-ID: <p06200704bf56b61eebe4@[10.0.1.210]>

At 5:24 PM -0700 2005-09-20, Lloyd F. Tennison wrote:

>  Has anyone else here had the same problems?  It all started when they did a
>  software service upgrade last Wednesday night (They told me they did indeed
>  do a upgrade then.)

	The FAQ entry at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.042.htp> 
is not specifically about hotmail, but is generally applicable to any 
large-scale mail provider.


	It is useful to try to gather more information on this problem 
from other list administrators.  However, please keep in mind that, 
even if you do discover that there is some sort of major problem 
(either wide-spread, or specific to your site), there may be little 
or nothing you can do about it.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From lists at viplist.us  Wed Sep 21 09:41:12 2005
From: lists at viplist.us (Lloyd F. Tennison)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 00:41:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hotmail Delivery Problems
Message-ID: <4330AC28.7352.187A5E6@localhost>

Here is the text of the emails.  They are pushing the BondedSender like crazy   
- especially since I received an email direct from BondedSender. 
 at the address I only used with this ticket to hotmail. 

An awful lot of passing the buck and saying the same thing over and over  
again. 

____________________________________________ 


I am very sorry, but we are not able to discuss the details of the 
filtering strategies or specific filters which MSN Hotmail utilizes in 
order to combat unwanted e-mail.  Our filters are highly confidential and 
discussion of the specific filter rules would eventually render them 
useless for all of our Hotmail mailbox owners. 

For information on common delivery questions please refer to the Hotmail 
Postmaster Site found at: http://postmaster.msn.com/.  MSN Hotmail has 
also created the Smart Network Data Services program.  This is a service 
that helps legitimate email senders work with their customers and partners 
to reduce spam originating from their IP. http://postmaster.msn.com/snds/. 
 Additionally you may want to investigate the Microsoft Sender ID program. 
http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/safety/technologies/senderid/default.msp 
x.  While neither the SNDS nor Sender ID will enable emails from you 
domain to bypass our filtering system they will help in the fight against 
spam. 

That being said, to help minimize future issues please investigate 
signing up for Bonded Sender at http://www.bondedsender.com.  

Thank you, 

Scott 
Hotmail Technical Support 

-----Original Message----- 
From: Lloyd F. Tennison [mailto:munged]  
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 5:01 PM 
To: GEST HM Inbox 
Subject: RE: Mail Delivery Problems from My Server, SRX050915606674 

My emails are getting blocked by you again.  I do not understand what is 
going on.  These are the same clients, the same lists - with almost no 
changes and you are changing what is going on.  I have been sending this 
same way for over 18 months now with the same type emails.  The only 
people that have added themselves have done so through the websites, with 
confirmed opt-in.  

I have only sent three of my lists and I usually have seven on Tuesdays 
without any problems.  I would really appreciate getting this solved, 
especially since there has not been any changes at my end.  There seems to 
be no reason or logic as to what is going on and are mutual users are getting 
upset. 


>  
> Hi Lloyd, 
>  
> I(tm)ll try to answer as much as I can for you: 
>  
> randomtestacct at hotmail.com is able to receive messages that might 
otherwise be blocked by  
> BrightMail, but the final destination (Inbox or JMF) is still a 
function of our filtering. Since the  
> account does not maintain a Domain Safe List, it isn(tm)t uncommon for 
test messages to end up in  
> JMF. 
>  
> I can(tm)t offer help with Symantec since they are a different company 
with different policies. Usually,  
> they will tell you if they are filtering your emails, but that is up 
to them. 
>  
> Sender ID is a helpful program, but not necessary for your purposes. 
>  
> The Junk Mail Reporting program is a helpful addition to SNDS since it 
will provide additional details  
> for you"this is a particularly effective way of cleaning up mailing 
lists. The program does require  
> that you have a company website, that you provide the JMRPP with an 
official Point of Contact, and  
> that your site has an opt-out link or visible opt-out process. If you 
are interested in enrolling, please  
> provide the details required (or information on how to find those 
details) and we will forward your  
> request to the JMRPP team: Once approved, they will contact you with 
further information. 
>  
> The benefit of Bonded Sender is that it allows you to bypass our 
filters (including BrightMail) and  
> deliver your messages directly into your recipient(tm)s Inbox. On rare 
occasion an error occurs and a  
> message will be routed to JMF. When that happens we ask that you 
contact us ASAP so that we  
> can rectify that issue. Microsoft and Return Path have a very good 
working relationship and we are  
> able to resolve these rare instances quickly. For more details, 
however, I would have to refer you to  
> www.bondedsender.com. 
>  
> Thank you, 
>  
> Shawn  
>  
>  
> MSN Hotmail Technical  
> Support 
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> From: Lloyd F. Tennison [mailto:munged]  
> Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 7:45 PM 
> To: GEST HM Inbox 
> Subject: RE: Mail Delivery Problems from My Server, SRX050915606674 
>  
>  
> It is interesting that it went to your junk mail folder as it did not 
on my test accounts and two on the  
> list itself. 
>  
> Symantec will not talk to anyone regarding their technology and/or who 
is listed. According to the  
> three different departments there is no way to find out who or what is 
listed and why. I was told the  
> only time that they give that information is in court. 
>  
> I cannot participate in the Microsoft Sender ID program as it uses SPF 
and SPF cannot be used  
> when you forward emails to other domains. 
> On your Junk Mail reporting, I would appreciate learning more about 
that program. 
> Question, if I do join the bonded sender program, bite the bullet and 
spend the $2750, does that  
> mean my emails will then be whitelisted and delivered to the inbox as 
a normal means of operation?  
> (All things remaining the same as when was certified.) 
> I do not really understand what your SNDS program is. It does not give 
anything that can be used  
> to diagnose or troubleshoot. It merely says how much mail you 
received.  
> This is what the FAQ's state: 
> Benefits for the Service Provider 
> * Reduction in bandwidth costs 
> How? 
> * Alternative to port 25 blocking for those unwilling or unable to do 
so 
> Do not understand what that has to do with anything. 
> * Protection of the network(tm)s reputation from being tarnished as a 
source of spam 
> By telling you the number of messages sent? I suppose knowing how many 
complaints is  
> something, but not knowing source, etc makes it hard to verify. 
> * Prevention of legitimate customers being blocked due to the actions 
of spammers 
> How? 
> * Gratitude of customers for being proactive in reducing spam and 
improving the security of  
> their machines and those around them, particularly ones coerced into 
sending spam 
> How does this do any of this? All I can see is that it tells you how 
many complaints there are -  
> and that is a ficticiously high number because the Junk mail and the 
delete buttons are next to  
> each other and there are false positives when someone clicks the wrong 
button. I have done so,  
> and I am sure everyone has done it. (But that is the same for almost 
every web-based email client.) 
> If I am missing something here - please let me know, but I do not see 
how that helps me with any  
> information other than complaints and filters -both of which at this 
time I cannot see or do anything  
> about. I do see that you are considering a SPAM notification and that 
would be great. 
> Again, thank you for your time helping me to help my clients. 
>  
>  
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> Subject: RE: Mail Delivery Problems from My Server, SRX050915606674 
> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:10:43 -0700 From: "GEST HM Inbox" 
> <gesthm at microsoft.com> 
>  
> Hello Lloyd, 
>  
>  
> We received your message at randomtestacct at hotmail.com. This  
message was 
> delivered to the Junk Mail folder in this account.I am unable to 
> determine what specifically within the content of your message is 
> causing our filters to view it as unsolicited e-mail.In general, 
> however, I can explain what happens with our filters.Below is the 
> information that is needed to avoid being filtered to the Junk Mail 
> folders.  
>  
>  
> For information on common delivery questions please refer to the 
Hotmail 
> Postmaster Site found at: http://postmaster.msn.com/.MSN Hotmail has 
> also created the Smart Network Data Services program.This is a service 
> that helps legitimate email senders work with their customers and 
> partners to reduce spam originating from their IP. 
> http://postmaster.msn.com/snds/. Additionally you may want to 
> investigate the Microsoft Sender ID program. While neither the SNDS 
nor 
> Sender ID will enable emails from you domain to bypass our filtering 
> system they will help in the fight against spam. 
>  
>  
> The message sender needs to make sure that the communication sent to 
the 
> Hotmail accounts conforms to our standards of e-mail.This information 
> can be found at: 
http://advertising.msn.com/adproducts/Email_TechStd.asp 
>  
>  
>  
> If you've gone through the standards and feel that you are in 
compliance 
> with them, but are still getting filtered to the Junk Mail Folders, 
then 
> in general I can tell you a couple of things about how we do spam 
> filtering.  
>  
>  
> We use the Symantec Brightmail spam filter to help determine which IP 
> addresses to block, and which messages to sort to the Junk e-mail 
> folder. Working together we can determine whether your message is 
being 
> blocked by Brightmail or not. We do not control the list, but we do 
> abide by the recommendations. If you are being blocked or filtered due 
> to the recommendation of the Brightmail filter the only way to stop 
this 
> behavior is to contact Symantec and get them to stop filtering your 
> individual emails to us. If you wish to be unblocked by Symantec you 
> must work with Symantec, and not MSN Hotmail, to have the block 
removed. 
>  
>  
>  
> Until Symantec goes through the process of investigation and renders a 
> decision on whether they will keep blocking your emails or not, there 
> will be nothing I, or anyone else at MSN Hotmail, can do to change the 
> delivery behavior of your messages. In addition, there is nothing that 
> I, or anyone else at MSN Hotmail, can do to affect their decision. 
> Symantec is a completely separate company from Microsoft and MSN 
Hotmail 
> and their decisions are intentionally kept out of the hands of our 
> staff.  
>  
>  
> If Symantec does not have your email on their filter list, but it is 
> still being filtered, then you are going to need to either have your 
> customers add the domain that you're sending the mail from to their 
own 
> Safe List inside of their Hotmail accounts, or else investigate the 
> Bonded Sender program. At Hotmail we do not maintain our own white list. 
> However, Microsoft accepts e-mail messages that may be allowed 
to 
> bypass some of Microsoft's filtering technologies from organizations 
> that are approved by the Bonded Sender Program  
(www.bondedsender.com), 
> powered by Return Path and certified by TRUSTe. 
>  
>  
> Or you can enroll in a new program that we are offering. The program 
is 
> called Junk Mail Reporting Partner Program. This is not a whitelisting 
> program. It will not guarantee that e-mails from your IP will not be 
> blocked. 
>  
>  
> This program is a long-term solution that we offer as recourse for 
> senders who are blocked because Junk Mail Reporting.Enrollment in this 
> program will benefit you as a sender because it will keep your e-mail 
> lists updated and populated with interested MSN Hotmail Customers who 
> want to receive your e-mails. It will remove those MSN Hotmail Customers 
> who do not want to receive e-mails from your company. 
>  
>  
> We do have a few requirements before we can allow a company to join 
this 
> program.  
>  
>  
>  
> The Sender: 
>  
> * has a legitimate website and opt-out links  
>  
> * may have been involved in router-based blocking based on user 
> complaints  
>  
> * has expressed a desire to continue working with MSN to resolve 
> issues 
>  
>  
> I hope that you will investigate joining this program.I believe that it 
> will offer a valuable service to our mutual Hotmail customers. 
>  
>  
> Please let me know if you have any further questions. 
>  
>  
> Thank you, 
>  
>  
>  Christian MSN Hotmail Team  
>  
>  
>  
> ________________________________ 
>  
> From: Lloyd F. Tennison [mailto:munged]  
> Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 9:28 AM 
> To: GEST HM Inbox 
> Subject: RE: Mail Delivery Problems from My Server, SRX050915606674 
>  
>  
> Email which you will be receiving shortly has the subject of: 
>  
>  
> Tonight: Prive/Roe | Saturday: All night at 1015 
>  
>  
>  
>  
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>  
> Subject: RE: Mail Delivery Problems from My Server, SRX050915606674 
>  
> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 23:58:07 -0700 
>  
> From: "GEST HM Inbox" <gesthm at microsoft.com> 
>  
>  
> Hello Lloyd, 
>  
> 1 or 2 mailing list should be fine. 
>  
> Thanks, 
>  
>  Toan N.  
>  
> MSN Hotmail Technical Support  
>  
> ________________________________ 
>  
>  
> From: Lloyd F. Tennison [mailto:munged]  
>  
> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 11:45 PM 
>  
> To: GEST HM Inbox 
>  
> Subject: RE: Mail Delivery Problems from My Server, SRX050915606674 
>  
> I can do that. How many different lists do you want me to add you to? 
>  
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>  
> Subject: RE: Mail Delivery Problems from My Server, SRX050915606674 
>  
> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 23:36:54 -0700 
>  
> From: "GEST HM Inbox" <gesthm at microsoft.com> 
>  
> Hello Lloyd, 
>  
> In sending us a sample message, it would be best to simply add  
>  
> randomtestacct at hotmail.com to your mailing list, and then reply to 
this 
>  
> thread with a notification that the message has been sent as well as 
the 
>  
> message's subject line so that we can locate it. This will generate 
>  
> message headers just like those generated on any common mailing, thus 
>  
> giving us the best picture of what is happening in this issue. 
>  
> Thank you, 
>  
>  Shawn  
>  
> MSN Hotmail Technical Support 
>  
> ________________________________ 
>  
> From: Lloyd F. Tennison [mailto:munged]  
>  
> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 11:29 PM 
>  
> To: GEST HM Inbox 
>  
> Subject: RE: Mail Delivery Problems from My Server, SRX050915606674 
>  
> I believe I already abide by the standards in the URL you sent and any 
>  
> standards of newsletter mailing that I am aware of. I only use 
>  
> confirmed opt- in and have both an unsubscribe and postal address for 
>  
> removal at the bottom of every email. 
>  
> On the sending to you some sample emails - would you prefer that I add 
>  
> you to one or more of the mailing lists and then you can see the 
emails 
>  
> directly for yourselves? I know that I am tested periodically by 
ISP's, 
>  
> etc. as I see someone subscribe and then a few days later that address 
>  
> unsubscribe and a new one subscribe from the same IP address. Please 
>  
> let me know what you would prefer, as I do not wish to be considered 
>  
> SPAM in any sense of the word.  
>  
> I work very hard for my clients to provide them with a quality service 
>  
> and make sure that the emails are only sent to those who request them 
>  
> and remove those who wish immediately. Mailman does so automatically 
by 
>  
> itself, and I do the extra steps as mentioned below to purge invalid 
>  
> addresses. 
>  
> On the forwarding, I use the SPAM filter blocks that I submitted 
below. 
>  
> If there are any other ones that you might suggest I would appreciate 
>  
> knowing. In addition, not listed before I also use SURBL to prevent 
>  
> receiving SPAM. None of the messages that are triggered actually are 
>  
> delivered as they are refused before they reach the server - in the 
>  
> ACL's. 
>  
> Please let me know whatever additional information I may give you to 
>  
> make sure this problem does not happen again. I can forward you data 
>  
> from the two other major ISP's mail service companies on their testing 
>  
> and whitelisting of my server, if you wish (AOL and Yahoo.) I know 
that 
>  
> you do things differently, but at least that would show my diligence 
and 
>  
> how long I have been doing this. 
>  
> Thank you for your time, 
>  
> Lloyd Tennison 
>  
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>  
> Subject: RE: Mail Delivery Problems from My Server, SRX050915606674 
>  
> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 22:01:43 -0700 
>  
> From: "GEST HM Inbox" <gesthm at microsoft.com> 
>  
> Hello Lloyd, 
>  
> Your IP is blocked by MSN Hotmail because the vast majority of all the 
>  
> email that you send to us has been judged to be spam by MSN Hotmail's 
>  
> internal filtering system. One possible explanation for this is the 
>  
> automatic forwarding of unfiltered inbound messages, including spam 
>  
> messages, to MSN/Hotmail addresses. This block lasts for 24 to 48 
hours 
>  
> and then is removed. If again the large majority of all the email from 
>  
> the IP is marked as spam it is blocked again, and so on indefinitely. 
>  
> Please confirm that your emails comply with MSN Hotmail's technical 
>  
> standards. This information can be found at:  
>  
> http://advertising.msn.com/adproducts/Email_TechStd.asp. 
>  
> It will also be helpful to send example emails directly to  
>  
> randomtestacct at hotmail.com so that we can examine the types of emails 
>  
> that you send. This will help us in our investigation.When you do 
>  
> this please send us the subject lines of emails you have sent. Please 
>  
> make sure that these emails are as functionally similar to the types 
of 
>  
> emails that originate from your system, as any deviation from this may 
>  
> hinder our ability to investigate your problem. 
>  
> We have performed a manual unblocking of your IP for this purpose. 
>  
> Please note that our filters are automated, and they will reinstitute 
an 
>  
> IP block if they see similar activity in the future. 
>  
> For information on common delivery questions please refer to the 
Hotmail 
>  
> Postmaster Site found at: http://postmaster.msn.com/.MSN Hotmail has 
>  
> also created the Smart Network Data Services program.This is a service 
>  
> that helps legitimate email senders work with their customers and 
>  
> partners to reduce spam originating from their IP.  
>  
> http://postmaster.msn.com/snds/. Additionally you may want to 
>  
> investigate the Microsoft Sender ID program.  
>  
> 
http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/safety/technologies/senderid/default.msp > 
> x. While neither the SNDS nor Sender ID will enable emails from you > > 
domain to bypass our filtering system they will help in the fight > > 
against spam. > > Additionally you should consider evaluating the Bonded 
Sender program. > > Bonded Sender (www.bondedsender.com) is the only  
White 
Listing service > > to which we subscribe. > > The only other way to 
ensure that your customers will receive your mail > > in their Inboxes 
would be to request that they each add your domain to > > their Safe List 
within their Hotmail mailboxes. Though this seems to be > > cumbersome, 
several other mail senders have been able to do with without > > too much 
trouble by putting the steps into the mail they send (usually > > at the 
very top or very bottom) or putting the announcement on their web > > 
site. > > Attached is a .doc with screenshots and instructions showing how 
this > > may be done. Please feel free to distribute that information in > 
> whatever way you feel will help resolve this issue. > > Thank you, > >  
Shawn > > MSN Hotmail Technical Support  
> > 

----- Original Message ----- 
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Hotmail Delivery Problems 
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:06:17 +0200 
From: Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> 

At 5:24 PM -0700 2005-09-20, Lloyd F. Tennison wrote: 

>  Has anyone else here had the same problems?  It all started when they did  
a 
>  software service upgrade last Wednesday night (They told me they did  
indeed 
>  do a upgrade then.) 

	The FAQ entry at  
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.042.htp>  
is not specifically about hotmail, but is generally applicable to any  
large-scale mail provider. 


	It is useful to try to gather more information on this problem  
from other list administrators.  However, please keep in mind that,  
even if you do discover that there is some sort of major problem  
(either wide-spread, or specific to your site), there may be little  
or nothing you can do about it. 

--  
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> 

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little 
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." 

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania 
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info. 



Thanks.

Lloyd F. Tennison
lloyd_tennison at whoever.com

No trees were harmed in the transmission of this message.
However, a rather large number of electrons were temporarily
inconvenienced.



From lists at viplist.us  Wed Sep 21 09:41:11 2005
From: lists at viplist.us (Lloyd F. Tennison)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 00:41:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hotmail Delivery Problems
Message-ID: <4330AC27.17327.187A46F@localhost>

Here is the text of the emails.  They are pushing the BondedSender like crazy   
- especially since I received an email direct from BondedSender. 
 at the address I only used with this ticket to hotmail. 

An awful lot of passing the buck and saying the same thing over and over  
again. 

____________________________________________ 


I am very sorry, but we are not able to discuss the details of the 
filtering strategies or specific filters which MSN Hotmail utilizes in 
order to combat unwanted e-mail.  Our filters are highly confidential and 
discussion of the specific filter rules would eventually render them 
useless for all of our Hotmail mailbox owners. 

For information on common delivery questions please refer to the Hotmail 
Postmaster Site found at: http://postmaster.msn.com/.  MSN Hotmail has 
also created the Smart Network Data Services program.  This is a service 
that helps legitimate email senders work with their customers and partners 
to reduce spam originating from their IP. http://postmaster.msn.com/snds/. 
 Additionally you may want to investigate the Microsoft Sender ID program. 
http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/safety/technologies/senderid/default.msp 
x.  While neither the SNDS nor Sender ID will enable emails from you 
domain to bypass our filtering system they will help in the fight against 
spam. 

That being said, to help minimize future issues please investigate 
signing up for Bonded Sender at http://www.bondedsender.com.  

Thank you, 

Scott 
Hotmail Technical Support 

-----Original Message----- 
From: Lloyd F. Tennison [mailto:munged]  
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 5:01 PM 
To: GEST HM Inbox 
Subject: RE: Mail Delivery Problems from My Server, SRX050915606674 

My emails are getting blocked by you again.  I do not understand what is 
going on.  These are the same clients, the same lists - with almost no 
changes and you are changing what is going on.  I have been sending this 
same way for over 18 months now with the same type emails.  The only 
people that have added themselves have done so through the websites, with 
confirmed opt-in.  

I have only sent three of my lists and I usually have seven on Tuesdays 
without any problems.  I would really appreciate getting this solved, 
especially since there has not been any changes at my end.  There seems to 
be no reason or logic as to what is going on and are mutual users are getting 
upset. 


>  
> Hi Lloyd, 
>  
> I(tm)ll try to answer as much as I can for you: 
>  
> randomtestacct at hotmail.com is able to receive messages that might 
otherwise be blocked by  
> BrightMail, but the final destination (Inbox or JMF) is still a 
function of our filtering. Since the  
> account does not maintain a Domain Safe List, it isn(tm)t uncommon for 
test messages to end up in  
> JMF. 
>  
> I can(tm)t offer help with Symantec since they are a different company 
with different policies. Usually,  
> they will tell you if they are filtering your emails, but that is up 
to them. 
>  
> Sender ID is a helpful program, but not necessary for your purposes. 
>  
> The Junk Mail Reporting program is a helpful addition to SNDS since it 
will provide additional details  
> for you"this is a particularly effective way of cleaning up mailing 
lists. The program does require  
> that you have a company website, that you provide the JMRPP with an 
official Point of Contact, and  
> that your site has an opt-out link or visible opt-out process. If you 
are interested in enrolling, please  
> provide the details required (or information on how to find those 
details) and we will forward your  
> request to the JMRPP team: Once approved, they will contact you with 
further information. 
>  
> The benefit of Bonded Sender is that it allows you to bypass our 
filters (including BrightMail) and  
> deliver your messages directly into your recipient(tm)s Inbox. On rare 
occasion an error occurs and a  
> message will be routed to JMF. When that happens we ask that you 
contact us ASAP so that we  
> can rectify that issue. Microsoft and Return Path have a very good 
working relationship and we are  
> able to resolve these rare instances quickly. For more details, 
however, I would have to refer you to  
> www.bondedsender.com. 
>  
> Thank you, 
>  
> Shawn  
>  
>  
> MSN Hotmail Technical  
> Support 
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> From: Lloyd F. Tennison [mailto:munged]  
> Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 7:45 PM 
> To: GEST HM Inbox 
> Subject: RE: Mail Delivery Problems from My Server, SRX050915606674 
>  
>  
> It is interesting that it went to your junk mail folder as it did not 
on my test accounts and two on the  
> list itself. 
>  
> Symantec will not talk to anyone regarding their technology and/or who 
is listed. According to the  
> three different departments there is no way to find out who or what is 
listed and why. I was told the  
> only time that they give that information is in court. 
>  
> I cannot participate in the Microsoft Sender ID program as it uses SPF 
and SPF cannot be used  
> when you forward emails to other domains. 
> On your Junk Mail reporting, I would appreciate learning more about 
that program. 
> Question, if I do join the bonded sender program, bite the bullet and 
spend the $2750, does that  
> mean my emails will then be whitelisted and delivered to the inbox as 
a normal means of operation?  
> (All things remaining the same as when was certified.) 
> I do not really understand what your SNDS program is. It does not give 
anything that can be used  
> to diagnose or troubleshoot. It merely says how much mail you 
received.  
> This is what the FAQ's state: 
> Benefits for the Service Provider 
> * Reduction in bandwidth costs 
> How? 
> * Alternative to port 25 blocking for those unwilling or unable to do 
so 
> Do not understand what that has to do with anything. 
> * Protection of the network(tm)s reputation from being tarnished as a 
source of spam 
> By telling you the number of messages sent? I suppose knowing how many 
complaints is  
> something, but not knowing source, etc makes it hard to verify. 
> * Prevention of legitimate customers being blocked due to the actions 
of spammers 
> How? 
> * Gratitude of customers for being proactive in reducing spam and 
improving the security of  
> their machines and those around them, particularly ones coerced into 
sending spam 
> How does this do any of this? All I can see is that it tells you how 
many complaints there are -  
> and that is a ficticiously high number because the Junk mail and the 
delete buttons are next to  
> each other and there are false positives when someone clicks the wrong 
button. I have done so,  
> and I am sure everyone has done it. (But that is the same for almost 
every web-based email client.) 
> If I am missing something here - please let me know, but I do not see 
how that helps me with any  
> information other than complaints and filters -both of which at this 
time I cannot see or do anything  
> about. I do see that you are considering a SPAM notification and that 
would be great. 
> Again, thank you for your time helping me to help my clients. 
>  
>  
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> Subject: RE: Mail Delivery Problems from My Server, SRX050915606674 
> Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:10:43 -0700 From: "GEST HM Inbox" 
> <gesthm at microsoft.com> 
>  
> Hello Lloyd, 
>  
>  
> We received your message at randomtestacct at hotmail.com. This  
message was 
> delivered to the Junk Mail folder in this account.I am unable to 
> determine what specifically within the content of your message is 
> causing our filters to view it as unsolicited e-mail.In general, 
> however, I can explain what happens with our filters.Below is the 
> information that is needed to avoid being filtered to the Junk Mail 
> folders.  
>  
>  
> For information on common delivery questions please refer to the 
Hotmail 
> Postmaster Site found at: http://postmaster.msn.com/.MSN Hotmail has 
> also created the Smart Network Data Services program.This is a service 
> that helps legitimate email senders work with their customers and 
> partners to reduce spam originating from their IP. 
> http://postmaster.msn.com/snds/. Additionally you may want to 
> investigate the Microsoft Sender ID program. While neither the SNDS 
nor 
> Sender ID will enable emails from you domain to bypass our filtering 
> system they will help in the fight against spam. 
>  
>  
> The message sender needs to make sure that the communication sent to 
the 
> Hotmail accounts conforms to our standards of e-mail.This information 
> can be found at: 
http://advertising.msn.com/adproducts/Email_TechStd.asp 
>  
>  
>  
> If you've gone through the standards and feel that you are in 
compliance 
> with them, but are still getting filtered to the Junk Mail Folders, 
then 
> in general I can tell you a couple of things about how we do spam 
> filtering.  
>  
>  
> We use the Symantec Brightmail spam filter to help determine which IP 
> addresses to block, and which messages to sort to the Junk e-mail 
> folder. Working together we can determine whether your message is 
being 
> blocked by Brightmail or not. We do not control the list, but we do 
> abide by the recommendations. If you are being blocked or filtered due 
> to the recommendation of the Brightmail filter the only way to stop 
this 
> behavior is to contact Symantec and get them to stop filtering your 
> individual emails to us. If you wish to be unblocked by Symantec you 
> must work with Symantec, and not MSN Hotmail, to have the block 
removed. 
>  
>  
>  
> Until Symantec goes through the process of investigation and renders a 
> decision on whether they will keep blocking your emails or not, there 
> will be nothing I, or anyone else at MSN Hotmail, can do to change the 
> delivery behavior of your messages. In addition, there is nothing that 
> I, or anyone else at MSN Hotmail, can do to affect their decision. 
> Symantec is a completely separate company from Microsoft and MSN 
Hotmail 
> and their decisions are intentionally kept out of the hands of our 
> staff.  
>  
>  
> If Symantec does not have your email on their filter list, but it is 
> still being filtered, then you are going to need to either have your 
> customers add the domain that you're sending the mail from to their 
own 
> Safe List inside of their Hotmail accounts, or else investigate the 
> Bonded Sender program. At Hotmail we do not maintain our own white list. 
> However, Microsoft accepts e-mail messages that may be allowed 
to 
> bypass some of Microsoft's filtering technologies from organizations 
> that are approved by the Bonded Sender Program  
(www.bondedsender.com), 
> powered by Return Path and certified by TRUSTe. 
>  
>  
> Or you can enroll in a new program that we are offering. The program 
is 
> called Junk Mail Reporting Partner Program. This is not a whitelisting 
> program. It will not guarantee that e-mails from your IP will not be 
> blocked. 
>  
>  
> This program is a long-term solution that we offer as recourse for 
> senders who are blocked because Junk Mail Reporting.Enrollment in this 
> program will benefit you as a sender because it will keep your e-mail 
> lists updated and populated with interested MSN Hotmail Customers who 
> want to receive your e-mails. It will remove those MSN Hotmail Customers 
> who do not want to receive e-mails from your company. 
>  
>  
> We do have a few requirements before we can allow a company to join 
this 
> program.  
>  
>  
>  
> The Sender: 
>  
> * has a legitimate website and opt-out links  
>  
> * may have been involved in router-based blocking based on user 
> complaints  
>  
> * has expressed a desire to continue working with MSN to resolve 
> issues 
>  
>  
> I hope that you will investigate joining this program.I believe that it 
> will offer a valuable service to our mutual Hotmail customers. 
>  
>  
> Please let me know if you have any further questions. 
>  
>  
> Thank you, 
>  
>  
>  Christian MSN Hotmail Team  
>  
>  
>  
> ________________________________ 
>  
> From: Lloyd F. Tennison [mailto:munged]  
> Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 9:28 AM 
> To: GEST HM Inbox 
> Subject: RE: Mail Delivery Problems from My Server, SRX050915606674 
>  
>  
> Email which you will be receiving shortly has the subject of: 
>  
>  
> Tonight: Prive/Roe | Saturday: All night at 1015 
>  
>  
>  
>  
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>  
> Subject: RE: Mail Delivery Problems from My Server, SRX050915606674 
>  
> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 23:58:07 -0700 
>  
> From: "GEST HM Inbox" <gesthm at microsoft.com> 
>  
>  
> Hello Lloyd, 
>  
> 1 or 2 mailing list should be fine. 
>  
> Thanks, 
>  
>  Toan N.  
>  
> MSN Hotmail Technical Support  
>  
> ________________________________ 
>  
>  
> From: Lloyd F. Tennison [mailto:munged]  
>  
> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 11:45 PM 
>  
> To: GEST HM Inbox 
>  
> Subject: RE: Mail Delivery Problems from My Server, SRX050915606674 
>  
> I can do that. How many different lists do you want me to add you to? 
>  
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>  
> Subject: RE: Mail Delivery Problems from My Server, SRX050915606674 
>  
> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 23:36:54 -0700 
>  
> From: "GEST HM Inbox" <gesthm at microsoft.com> 
>  
> Hello Lloyd, 
>  
> In sending us a sample message, it would be best to simply add  
>  
> randomtestacct at hotmail.com to your mailing list, and then reply to 
this 
>  
> thread with a notification that the message has been sent as well as 
the 
>  
> message's subject line so that we can locate it. This will generate 
>  
> message headers just like those generated on any common mailing, thus 
>  
> giving us the best picture of what is happening in this issue. 
>  
> Thank you, 
>  
>  Shawn  
>  
> MSN Hotmail Technical Support 
>  
> ________________________________ 
>  
> From: Lloyd F. Tennison [mailto:munged]  
>  
> Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 11:29 PM 
>  
> To: GEST HM Inbox 
>  
> Subject: RE: Mail Delivery Problems from My Server, SRX050915606674 
>  
> I believe I already abide by the standards in the URL you sent and any 
>  
> standards of newsletter mailing that I am aware of. I only use 
>  
> confirmed opt- in and have both an unsubscribe and postal address for 
>  
> removal at the bottom of every email. 
>  
> On the sending to you some sample emails - would you prefer that I add 
>  
> you to one or more of the mailing lists and then you can see the 
emails 
>  
> directly for yourselves? I know that I am tested periodically by 
ISP's, 
>  
> etc. as I see someone subscribe and then a few days later that address 
>  
> unsubscribe and a new one subscribe from the same IP address. Please 
>  
> let me know what you would prefer, as I do not wish to be considered 
>  
> SPAM in any sense of the word.  
>  
> I work very hard for my clients to provide them with a quality service 
>  
> and make sure that the emails are only sent to those who request them 
>  
> and remove those who wish immediately. Mailman does so automatically 
by 
>  
> itself, and I do the extra steps as mentioned below to purge invalid 
>  
> addresses. 
>  
> On the forwarding, I use the SPAM filter blocks that I submitted 
below. 
>  
> If there are any other ones that you might suggest I would appreciate 
>  
> knowing. In addition, not listed before I also use SURBL to prevent 
>  
> receiving SPAM. None of the messages that are triggered actually are 
>  
> delivered as they are refused before they reach the server - in the 
>  
> ACL's. 
>  
> Please let me know whatever additional information I may give you to 
>  
> make sure this problem does not happen again. I can forward you data 
>  
> from the two other major ISP's mail service companies on their testing 
>  
> and whitelisting of my server, if you wish (AOL and Yahoo.) I know 
that 
>  
> you do things differently, but at least that would show my diligence 
and 
>  
> how long I have been doing this. 
>  
> Thank you for your time, 
>  
> Lloyd Tennison 
>  
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>  
> Subject: RE: Mail Delivery Problems from My Server, SRX050915606674 
>  
> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 22:01:43 -0700 
>  
> From: "GEST HM Inbox" <gesthm at microsoft.com> 
>  
> Hello Lloyd, 
>  
> Your IP is blocked by MSN Hotmail because the vast majority of all the 
>  
> email that you send to us has been judged to be spam by MSN Hotmail's 
>  
> internal filtering system. One possible explanation for this is the 
>  
> automatic forwarding of unfiltered inbound messages, including spam 
>  
> messages, to MSN/Hotmail addresses. This block lasts for 24 to 48 
hours 
>  
> and then is removed. If again the large majority of all the email from 
>  
> the IP is marked as spam it is blocked again, and so on indefinitely. 
>  
> Please confirm that your emails comply with MSN Hotmail's technical 
>  
> standards. This information can be found at:  
>  
> http://advertising.msn.com/adproducts/Email_TechStd.asp. 
>  
> It will also be helpful to send example emails directly to  
>  
> randomtestacct at hotmail.com so that we can examine the types of emails 
>  
> that you send. This will help us in our investigation.When you do 
>  
> this please send us the subject lines of emails you have sent. Please 
>  
> make sure that these emails are as functionally similar to the types 
of 
>  
> emails that originate from your system, as any deviation from this may 
>  
> hinder our ability to investigate your problem. 
>  
> We have performed a manual unblocking of your IP for this purpose. 
>  
> Please note that our filters are automated, and they will reinstitute 
an 
>  
> IP block if they see similar activity in the future. 
>  
> For information on common delivery questions please refer to the 
Hotmail 
>  
> Postmaster Site found at: http://postmaster.msn.com/.MSN Hotmail has 
>  
> also created the Smart Network Data Services program.This is a service 
>  
> that helps legitimate email senders work with their customers and 
>  
> partners to reduce spam originating from their IP.  
>  
> http://postmaster.msn.com/snds/. Additionally you may want to 
>  
> investigate the Microsoft Sender ID program.  
>  
> 
http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/safety/technologies/senderid/default.msp > 
> x. While neither the SNDS nor Sender ID will enable emails from you > > 
domain to bypass our filtering system they will help in the fight > > 
against spam. > > Additionally you should consider evaluating the Bonded 
Sender program. > > Bonded Sender (www.bondedsender.com) is the only  
White 
Listing service > > to which we subscribe. > > The only other way to 
ensure that your customers will receive your mail > > in their Inboxes 
would be to request that they each add your domain to > > their Safe List 
within their Hotmail mailboxes. Though this seems to be > > cumbersome, 
several other mail senders have been able to do with without > > too much 
trouble by putting the steps into the mail they send (usually > > at the 
very top or very bottom) or putting the announcement on their web > > 
site. > > Attached is a .doc with screenshots and instructions showing how 
this > > may be done. Please feel free to distribute that information in > 
> whatever way you feel will help resolve this issue. > > Thank you, > >  
Shawn > > MSN Hotmail Technical Support  
> > 

----- Original Message ----- 
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Hotmail Delivery Problems 
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:06:17 +0200 
From: Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> 

At 5:24 PM -0700 2005-09-20, Lloyd F. Tennison wrote: 

>  Has anyone else here had the same problems?  It all started when they did  
a 
>  software service upgrade last Wednesday night (They told me they did  
indeed 
>  do a upgrade then.) 

	The FAQ entry at  
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.042.htp>  
is not specifically about hotmail, but is generally applicable to any  
large-scale mail provider. 


	It is useful to try to gather more information on this problem  
from other list administrators.  However, please keep in mind that,  
even if you do discover that there is some sort of major problem  
(either wide-spread, or specific to your site), there may be little  
or nothing you can do about it. 

--  
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> 

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little 
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." 

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania 
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info. 





From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Sep 21 10:04:38 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:04:38 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hotmail Delivery Problems
In-Reply-To: <4330AC28.7352.187A5E6@localhost>
References: <4330AC28.7352.187A5E6@localhost>
Message-ID: <p06200706bf56c37c0de4@[10.0.1.210]>

At 12:41 AM -0700 2005-09-21, Lloyd F. Tennison wrote:

>  Here is the text of the emails.  They are pushing the BondedSender like crazy
>  - especially since I received an email direct from BondedSender.
>   at the address I only used with this ticket to hotmail.
>
>  An awful lot of passing the buck and saying the same thing over and over
>  again.

	You can certainly try their SNDS system, and try to follow 
whatever guidelines they have at their postmaster website.  As far as 
that goes, it doesn't sound significantly different from what AOL 
does.

	However, at some point it sounds to me like you will probably 
need to decide how much you want your e-mail to get through their 
filters.  If you want it badly enough, then you will probably pay to 
use their bonded sender program.  Otherwise, you may be forced to 
eliminate all hotmail users from your lists, or at least live with 
the fact that most mail from you to hotmail is going to be blocked or 
dropped.


	Good luck!  If you find out anything that you think may be of 
interest to the broader mail list admin community, please let us know.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il  Wed Sep 21 11:23:21 2005
From: lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il (lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:23:21 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding new members with their fullnames via command
	line
Message-ID: <5570AD7B7ABD5F4493883FF8F482BC94014CF77A@exchsrv01.haifa.edu>

Hello All,
 
I'd like to move lists from an old machine (Solaris 8) to new one (SLES 9) with all their corresponding members.
 
I'm creating new list (on my new server) with newlist command.
 
To see the members of the list with their full names I run (on the old machine):
# ./list_members -f listname
 
I got this kind of members list:
firstname1 lastname1 <user1 at domain.com>
firstname2 lastname2 <user2 at domain.com>
......
 
Is there syntax to add members with "add_members" or another command, so I could directly add them to new list with their full names?
 
Leon Kolchinsky
 


From chris at westnet.com  Wed Sep 21 13:34:32 2005
From: chris at westnet.com (Christopher X. Candreva)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:34:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hotmail Delivery Problems
In-Reply-To: <4330AC28.7352.187A5E6@localhost>
References: <4330AC28.7352.187A5E6@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.62.0509210732420.16264@westnet.com>

On Wed, 21 Sep 2005, Lloyd F. Tennison wrote:

> Here is the text of the emails.  They are pushing the BondedSender like crazy   
> - especially since I received an email direct from BondedSender. 
>  at the address I only used with this ticket to hotmail. 

I would turn the problem around. Tell the hotmail users that hotmail is 
blocking their list mail, and they should contact hotmail and tell them to 
stop blocking their legit mail.

Or, if it's not a business list, tell hotmail users they need to use a 
different address and move on.  Send them all a gmail invite while you're at 
it.

==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/


From webmail at writehand.com  Wed Sep 21 15:03:36 2005
From: webmail at writehand.com (George Payne)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 08:03:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Password protection
Message-ID: <B0169072541@elk1.alaweb.com>

I can't find in the documentation how you post a message to a list with
password protection.  Please help.

George Payne
Write Hand Publishing
105 Willow Drive
Andalusia, AL 36421
334 222-9212
 <mailto:webmail at writehand.com> webmail at writehand.com
 
<file:///C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\georgepayne\Application%20Data\Micros
oft\Signatures\www.writehand.com> www.writehand.com

 



From anner at blast.com  Wed Sep 21 15:40:59 2005
From: anner at blast.com (Anne Ramey)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:40:59 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bandwidth monitoring per list
Message-ID: <433162EB.80907@blast.com>

Is there a tool I could use, or a way inside mailman itself, to monitor 
the bandwidth used by a particular list?  Either to institute a quota or 
  (preferably) end up with a stats type graph or set of #s?

Thanks
-- 
Anne


From jdennis at redhat.com  Wed Sep 21 15:48:36 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:48:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Password protection
In-Reply-To: <B0169072541@elk1.alaweb.com>
References: <B0169072541@elk1.alaweb.com>
Message-ID: <1127310516.20849.114.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Wed, 2005-09-21 at 08:03 -0500, George Payne wrote:
> I can't find in the documentation how you post a message to a list with
> password protection.  Please help.

Your previous was seen, but perhaps it was not answered because it's not
clear what you're asking. If you could provide some further explanation
it would help. Mailman has no direct support for password protecting an
email. Mailman is only in the business of being a relay, taking a
message from you and redistributing to members of the list. For the most
part mailman cares very little about the content of the email and has no
password protection of email receipt and delivery. On the other hand
there are a variety of schemes by which a sender of email can digitally
sign and/or encrypt an email, but all of those schemes are local to the
sender and receiver and embedded in the content of the mail, mailman as
a distributor of messages is ignorant of them.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Sep 21 16:08:46 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:08:46 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bandwidth monitoring per list
In-Reply-To: <433162EB.80907@blast.com>
References: <433162EB.80907@blast.com>
Message-ID: <p06200708bf5719c847b5@[10.0.1.210]>

At 9:40 AM -0400 2005-09-21, Anne Ramey wrote:

>  Is there a tool I could use, or a way inside mailman itself, to monitor
>  the bandwidth used by a particular list?  Either to institute a quota or
>    (preferably) end up with a stats type graph or set of #s?

	Go to the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py>, and search for terms like 
"statistics" and "rate limiting".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From jdennis at redhat.com  Wed Sep 21 16:29:11 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:29:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Password protection
In-Reply-To: <B0169078903@elk1.alaweb.com>
References: <B0169078903@elk1.alaweb.com>
Message-ID: <1127312951.20849.122.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Wed, 2005-09-21 at 09:00 -0500, George Payne wrote:
> I am trying to post a message to a list of several thousand emails but I
> want only the poster (moderator or administrator0 to be able to post a
> message.  What I am trying to find out is how do you protect the list.

Its in the FAQ

3.11. How do I create a newsletter/announcement/one-way list?
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp


-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From dpifer at odu.edu  Wed Sep 21 16:42:38 2005
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:42:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Monthly password reminders not working
Message-ID: <1127313758.28649.318.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

Hello,

      I thought this was working when we moved to Mailman 2.1.6b4
in June, (I could be wrong) but the monthly password reminder
is not working. I, and a colleague, have tried to manually
test the script for a single list but it is not working. The
script that runs out of mailman's cron is:

# 5 AM on the first of each month, mail out password reminders.
0 5 1 * * /usr/bin/python -S /usr1/mailman/mailman/cron/mailpasswds

      I tried testing with:

$ pwd
/usr1/mailman/mailman/cron

$ runas -u mailman ./mailpasswds -l testlist

      It just exits. Nothing in the mail or mailman logs.

      Other details: Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS release 3

      Any suggestions?

Darren
Old Dominion University



From jdennis at redhat.com  Wed Sep 21 18:13:21 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:13:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Monthly password reminders not working
In-Reply-To: <1127313758.28649.318.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
References: <1127313758.28649.318.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <1127319201.1827.2.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Wed, 2005-09-21 at 10:42 -0400, Darren G Pifer wrote:
> Hello,
> 
>       I thought this was working when we moved to Mailman 2.1.6b4
> in June, (I could be wrong) but the monthly password reminder
> is not working. I, and a colleague, have tried to manually
> test the script for a single list but it is not working. The
> script that runs out of mailman's cron is:
> 
> # 5 AM on the first of each month, mail out password reminders.
> 0 5 1 * * /usr/bin/python -S /usr1/mailman/mailman/cron/mailpasswds
> 
>       I tried testing with:
> 
> $ pwd
> /usr1/mailman/mailman/cron
> 
> $ runas -u mailman ./mailpasswds -l testlist
> 
>       It just exits. Nothing in the mail or mailman logs.
> 
>       Other details: Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS release 3
> 
>       Any suggestions?

Have you verified that the list has its password reminder flag set to
yes under general options and that the per user option to receive
reminders is enabled for at least some members of the list?
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From lists05 at equinephotoart.com  Wed Sep 21 18:29:50 2005
From: lists05 at equinephotoart.com (jc dill)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:29:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hotmail Delivery Problems
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.62.0509210732420.16264@westnet.com>
References: <4330AC28.7352.187A5E6@localhost>
	<Pine.GSO.4.62.0509210732420.16264@westnet.com>
Message-ID: <43318A7E.3030208@equinephotoart.com>

Christopher X. Candreva wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Sep 2005, Lloyd F. Tennison wrote:
> 
>>Here is the text of the emails.  They are pushing the BondedSender like crazy   
>>- especially since I received an email direct from BondedSender. 
>> at the address I only used with this ticket to hotmail. 
> 
> I would turn the problem around. Tell the hotmail users that hotmail is 
> blocking their list mail, and they should contact hotmail and tell them to 
> stop blocking their legit mail.
> 
> Or, if it's not a business list, tell hotmail users they need to use a 
> different address and move on.  Send them all a gmail invite while you're at 
> it.

That's what I recommend too.  Your list subscribers are not getting 
their list email because Hotmail is being unreasonable.  Instead of 
expecting you to jump thru hoops for Hotmail, it's perfectly reasonable 
for you to put the shoe on the other foot and tell them to use a 
different email provider that has more reasonable policies.  When 
Hotmail finds that they are losing users by droves they will stop 
expecting all legitimate senders to jump thru these unreasonable hoops.

"The 'Net treats censorship as damage and routes around it."  (John 
Gilmore)  In this case, the "censorship" is a side effect of Hotmail's 
Bonded Sender program being badly implemented (saying that your mail 
server can only "speak" to their mail server if it participates in 
Bonded Sender) and rejecting legitimate email.  Route around it by 
assisting your Hotmail users in getting another email account.

jc



From dpifer at odu.edu  Wed Sep 21 19:44:49 2005
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:44:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Monthly password reminders not working
In-Reply-To: <1127319201.1827.2.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
References: <1127313758.28649.318.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
	<1127319201.1827.2.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <1127324688.28649.343.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

On Wed, 2005-09-21 at 12:13, John Dennis wrote:

> >       I tried testing with:
> > 
> > $ pwd
> > /usr1/mailman/mailman/cron
> > 
> > $ runas -u mailman ./mailpasswds -l testlist
> > 
> >       It just exits. Nothing in the mail or mailman logs.
> > 
> >       Other details: Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS release 3
> > 
> >       Any suggestions?
> 
> Have you verified that the list has its password reminder flag set to
> yes under general options and that the per user option to receive
> reminders is enabled for at least some members of the list?

That answer is 'Yes' to both questions.

Anything else?

Darren
ODU



From remigus at gmail.com  Wed Sep 21 19:58:46 2005
From: remigus at gmail.com (Neal Berwick)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:58:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/PHP/Digest Issue
Message-ID: <e7708247050921105878f477da@mail.gmail.com>

Hey All,
 My apologies in advance if I'm directing this to the wrong location, but
I'm about out of ideas. I recently built a small PHP web form to allow
individuals to send email updates to our various mailman lists. Everything
works quite nicely for non-digest users, but when I tried to configure the
script for digest users, things started to get weird.
 Initially, no matter how many emails I dispatched using the form, the
Mailman digest always listed a single topic. In the MIME digest it attached
a single message (the first message sent to the list) and in plaintext it
appended all the messages sent to the list but still listed as a single
message. The headers where all subsequent messages were to start seemed
pretty messed up. So I decided to play with the headers a bit and added the
line in the php:
 $headers .= "X-Mailer: PHP/" . phpversion() . "\n";
 After that change all digests calculated the number of messages correctly
and displayed the headers accurately. Unfortunately, though every thing
looks good in digest/plaintext, digest/MIME was acting up. When a MIME
digest was received in Outlook, the messages were not attached to the
digest. Yet when I sent to a gmail account they appeared below as forwarded
messages. Now if I forsake the php form and send MIME email from outlook to
the list Outlook correctly creates a multipart/alternative email and the
MIME/digest contains appropriate attachments for all messages.
 Below I list the headers that I'm setting in php, the relevant sections of
the plaintext digest with incorrectly counted messages/topics and finally
the relevant sections of the plaintext digest with the correct message
count.
 Thanks in advance to anyone who has any thoughts
 php:

$boundary='--' . md5( uniqid("IsNealAGenius") );
$headers = "From: \"Home Office\" <" . $from. ">\n";
$headers .= "Mime-Version: 1.0\n";
$headers .= "Content-type: multipart/alternative;\n boundary=\"$boundary\"\n
X-Mailer: PHP/" . phpversion() . "\n";

$message="\nThis is a multi-part message in MIME format.\n";
$message.="\n\n--$boundary\n";
$message.="Content-Type: text/plain; charset=\"us-ascii\"\n";
$message.="Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit\n\n";
$mail_to = "test_list at here.com";
$message .= strip_tags($test);
$message .= "\n\n--$boundary\n";
$message .= "Content-Type: text/html; charset=\"us-ascii\"\n";
$message.="Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit\n\n";
$message .= $test;
mail ($mail_to,"test",$message,$headers);
......................................................................................
 plaintext digest 1.
 Today's Topics:

1. test (Home Office)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:19:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Home Office" neal at here.com
To: test_list at here.com
Subject: [Test_list] test
Message-ID: 20050921141936.AF158524114 at mail.here.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="--274280a87c2f32840e53791334dfb49f"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Precedence: list
Message: 1

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

----274280a87c2f32840e53791334dfb49f
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<stripped HTML here.>

----274280a87c2f32840e53791334dfb49f
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<Real HTML here>

----274280a87c2f32840e53791334dfb49f--
>From apache at here.com Wed Sep 21 10:19:51 2005
Return-Path: apache at here.com
X-Original-To: test_list at here.com
Delivered-To: test_list at here.com
Received: by mail.here.com <http://mail.here.com> (Postfix, from userid 48)
id 0952E52406B; Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:19:51 -0400 (EDT)
To: test_list at here.com
From: "Home Office" neal at here.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="--921e4b971d970fe077e26dadad939251"
Message-Id: 20050921141951.0952E52406B at mail.here.com
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:19:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Test_list] test
X-BeenThere: test_list at here.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1
Precedence: list
List-Id: Test list to work out bugs <test_list.here.com>
List-Unsubscribe:
<*http://www.here.com/mailman/listinfo/test_list*<http://www.here.com/mailman/listinfo/test_list>
>,
<*mailto:test_list-request at here.com?subject=unsubscribe*<test_list-request at here.com?subject=unsubscribe>
>
List-Archive: </heremail>
List-Post: <*mailto:test_list at here.com* <test_list at here.com>>
List-Help: <*mailto:test_list-request at here.com?subject=help*<test_list-request at here.com?subject=help>
>
List-Subscribe:
<*http://www.here.com/mailman/listinfo/test_list*<http://www.here.com/mailman/listinfo/test_list>
>,
<*mailto:test_list-request at here?subject=subscribe*<test_list-request at here?subject=subscribe>
>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

----921e4b971d970fe077e26dadad939251
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit .....

<Rest of message>

............................................................

plaintext digest #2:

Today's Topics:

1. test (Home Office)
2. test (Home Office)
3. test (Home Office)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:56:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Home Office" neal at here.com
To: test_list at here.com
Subject: [Test_list] test
Message-ID: 20050921135642.7C15B52406B at mail.here.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="--c9dff2da6d2e9942c846b891d664122e"
X-Mailer: PHP/4.3.2
MIME-Version: 1.0
Precedence: list
Message: 1

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

----c9dff2da6d2e9942c846b891d664122e
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<Plain text here>

----d9d51c58d8acd322402f930ba7754354
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<HTML here>

----01f73f678c4ca55f470d0225d6131bb2

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:28:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Home Office" neal at here.com
To: test_list at here.com
Subject: [Test_list] test
Message-ID: 20050921172837.6110952406B at mail.here.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="--7cdc89be99811720df8db7a5ddb7bc0e"
X-Mailer: PHP/4.3.2
MIME-Version: 1.0
Precedence: list
Message: 2

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

----7cdc89be99811720df8db7a5ddb7bc0e
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<rest of message>


From jdennis at redhat.com  Wed Sep 21 20:01:28 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:01:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Monthly password reminders not working
In-Reply-To: <1127324688.28649.343.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
References: <1127313758.28649.318.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
	<1127319201.1827.2.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
	<1127324688.28649.343.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <1127325688.1827.11.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Wed, 2005-09-21 at 13:44 -0400, Darren G Pifer wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-09-21 at 12:13, John Dennis wrote:
> 
> > >       I tried testing with:
> > > 
> > > $ pwd
> > > /usr1/mailman/mailman/cron
> > > 
> > > $ runas -u mailman ./mailpasswds -l testlist
> > > 
> > >       It just exits. Nothing in the mail or mailman logs.
> > > 
> > >       Other details: Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS release 3
> > > 
> > >       Any suggestions?
> > 
> > Have you verified that the list has its password reminder flag set to
> > yes under general options and that the per user option to receive
> > reminders is enabled for at least some members of the list?
> 
> That answer is 'Yes' to both questions.
> 
> Anything else?

Well, if it were me I'd edit the script and throw in a few print
statements in a few judicious places to track what it was or wasn't
doing since you're not getting any info in the logs.

Python print statements are pretty easy, in its simplest form:

print "value1=%s value2=%s" % (value1, value2)

each %s is replaced by the matching value inside the parens, just make
sure the indentation of the print statement lines up.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From lists at nabble.com  Wed Sep 21 20:13:19 2005
From: lists at nabble.com (kooto (sent by Nabble.com))
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:13:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bandwidth monitoring per list
In-Reply-To: <433162EB.80907@blast.com>
References: <433162EB.80907@blast.com>
Message-ID: <922351.post@talk.nabble.com>



Anne Ramey wrote: 
> 
> Is there a tool I could use, or a way inside mailman itself, to monitor 
> the bandwidth used by a particular list?  Either to institute a quota or 
>   (preferably) end up with a stats type graph or set of #s?
> 

here is a thread that may be of interest to you: http://www.nabble.com/Throttle-outbound-mail-delivery-restricted-to-200-per-hour%2C-Bounce-t197531.html#a552093

Also, try search Nabble's archive of Mailman mailing lists here: http://www.nabble.com/Mailman-f1728.html

It allows you to cross search all mailman related lists in one place. You can post relies to any list or follow up with the author privately to find an answer to your question.

--
Sent from the Mailman - Users forum at Nabble.com:
http://www.nabble.com/bandwidth-monitoring-per-list-t330401.html#a922351


From nelsonpitlor at alltel.net  Wed Sep 21 20:14:20 2005
From: nelsonpitlor at alltel.net (Nelson Pitlor)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:14:20 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message body getting cut off -- Header only
Message-ID: <20050921181422.IBJR29274.ispmxmta05-srv.alltel.net@Nelson>

I'm sorry to bother everyone, but is there any way you might be able to
help?
 
Whenever I receive email on my desktop, everything is fine.  The issue is on
my PocketPC.
 
Some (but not all...) of the emails I receive come in blank... EXCEPT for
the common header (I believe that it is generated by your software).  If I
retrieve the same message on my desktop, the message reads fine.
 
I would say it's an issue with my PPC, but the fact that only a few come in
with this problem (and ALWAYS from the same senders), and I AM receiving and
am able to see the header, I'm not sure.
 
Has anyone else mentioned this problem?
 
Thank you for your help.
 
-Nelson


From lists at viplist.us  Wed Sep 21 21:41:08 2005
From: lists at viplist.us (Lloyd F. Tennison)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:41:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hotmail Delivery Problems
In-Reply-To: <p06200706bf56c37c0de4@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <4330AC28.7352.187A5E6@localhost>
Message-ID: <433154E4.24235.41AC512@localhost>

Since I do webhosting the SNDS system uses SPF, and SPF does not work 
if you do mail forwarding.  Mail gets denied and end up stuck in my mail 
queue.  The only way is to repackage the email (per SPF website) but then if I 
forward a repackaged piece of SPAM, it looks now like it came from me. and I 
get blamed!  That's why SPF cannot work in this design - or it seems in any 
webhosting scenario.




Date sent:      	Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:04:38 +0200
To:             	lloyd at viplist.us
From:           	Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
Copies to:      	mailman-users at python.org
Subject:        	Re: [Mailman-Users] Hotmail Delivery Problems

> At 12:41 AM -0700 2005-09-21, Lloyd F. Tennison wrote:
> 
> >  Here is the text of the emails.  They are pushing the BondedSender like crazy
> >  - especially since I received an email direct from BondedSender.
> >   at the address I only used with this ticket to hotmail.
> >
> >  An awful lot of passing the buck and saying the same thing over and over
> >  again.
> 
> 	You can certainly try their SNDS system, and try to follow 
> whatever guidelines they have at their postmaster website.  As far as 
> that goes, it doesn't sound significantly different from what AOL 
> does.
> 
> 	However, at some point it sounds to me like you will probably 
> need to decide how much you want your e-mail to get through their 
> filters.  If you want it badly enough, then you will probably pay to 
> use their bonded sender program.  Otherwise, you may be forced to 
> eliminate all hotmail users from your lists, or at least live with 
> the fact that most mail from you to hotmail is going to be blocked or 
> dropped.
> 
> 
> 	Good luck!  If you find out anything that you think may be of 
> interest to the broader mail list admin community, please let us know.
> 
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
> 
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
> 
>      -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>      Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
> 
>    SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lists%40viplist.us
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> 




From savoy at uleth.ca  Wed Sep 21 23:57:53 2005
From: savoy at uleth.ca (Jim Savoy)
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:57:53 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscription via -request
Message-ID: <4331D761.7090702@uleth.ca>


Hi all,

      I was wondering if there is a way to silently subscribe people to a
list via the -request command processor (ie sending email commands to
listname-request)?

   If I send the command:

    subscribe password nodigest address=janedoe at hotmail.com

it works fine, but janedoe at hotmail.com is then sent a message asking 
that she
confirm the subscription by clicking a link. Our users are confused 
enough as it
is, and we would like to avoid this step. I realize that the 
confirmation step was
created to prevent any old yahoo from subscribing people to lists 
without their
consent, but how would any old yahoo know what the list password is? Seems
like an unnecessary extra layer of protection.

We are running Mailman 2.1.5.  Thanks!

 - jim -

PS I realize that we can silently subscribe people via the GUI and the 
command
      line, but we wish to do it via email and -request processor only.




From lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il  Thu Sep 22 11:00:58 2005
From: lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il (lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:00:58 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding new members with their fullnames via
	commandline
Message-ID: <5570AD7B7ABD5F4493883FF8F482BC94014CF787@exchsrv01.haifa.edu>

Hello Again,

Is it true that there is no way to add member to the list with his full name from the command line?

I know that the below syntax won't work:
./add_members -r - "firstname1 lastname1" <user1 at domain.com> somelistname

But maybe some of you have solved it with some script or workaround?

Best Regards,
Leon Kolchinsky

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+lkolchin=univ.haifa.ac.il at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+lkolchin=univ.haifa.ac.il at python.org] On Behalf Of lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 12:23 PM
To: Mailman-Users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding new members with their fullnames via commandline

Hello All,
 
I'd like to move lists from an old machine (Solaris 8) to new one (SLES 9) with all their corresponding members.
 
I'm creating new list (on my new server) with newlist command.
 
To see the members of the list with their full names I run (on the old machine):
# ./list_members -f listname
 
I got this kind of members list:
firstname1 lastname1 <user1 at domain.com>
firstname2 lastname2 <user2 at domain.com>
......
 
Is there syntax to add members with "add_members" or another command, so I could directly add them to new list with their full names?
 
Leon Kolchinsky
 
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From mail at christiananton.de  Thu Sep 22 11:47:45 2005
From: mail at christiananton.de (Christian Anton)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:47:45 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual host document root for mailman/listinfo
In-Reply-To: <4330662D.8060407@magnet.fsu.edu>
References: <4330662D.8060407@magnet.fsu.edu>
Message-ID: <43327DC1.80600@christiananton.de>

Tom Combs wrote:

>Hello,
>
> I'm running mailman-2.1.6rc4 and apache-2.0.54. I have a virtual host 
>set up
> for my mailman web interface. I would like the listinfo page to be the 
>default
> page for my mailman web address so one can enter http://mylists.com instead
> of http://mylists.com/mailman/listinfo.  I haven't been able to figure 
>out what
> the document root setting for the mylists virtual host setting should 
>be in the
> apache http.conf file. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
>
>  Thanks,  Tom Combs
>
>  
>

sorry Tom, first mail was replied falsely, wanted to send it to the 
list, not to you....

I made it simple,
i have put a directory "htdocs" in /home/mailman, where my mailman is 
installed (because of settings in suExec that does not allow to execute 
cgi's that are not in wwwroot), in the lists.<mydomain>.<tld> vhost i 
have DocumentRoot in /home/www/htdocs, in there is one html-File with 
this content:

<html>
<head>
<title>Redirection</title>
<meta http-equiv="refresh" content="0; URL=mailman/listinfo">
</head>
<body>
If the redirection does not work, click <a 
href="mailman/listinfo">here</a>!
</body>
</html>

This is of course not a very fine solution but it works, and it works 
with virtual hosts too, just give every apache vhost for which you have 
mailinglists the DocumentRoot /home/mailman/htdocs.


Greets

Christian


From hannah at schlund.de  Thu Sep 22 12:08:05 2005
From: hannah at schlund.de (Hannah Schroeter)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:08:05 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding new members with their fullnames via
	commandline
In-Reply-To: <5570AD7B7ABD5F4493883FF8F482BC94014CF787@exchsrv01.haifa.edu>
References: <5570AD7B7ABD5F4493883FF8F482BC94014CF787@exchsrv01.haifa.edu>
Message-ID: <20050922100805.GC27362@schlund.de>

Hello!

On Thu, Sep 22, 2005 at 12:00:58PM +0300, lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il wrote:
>Hello Again,

>Is it true that there is no way to add member to the list with his full name from the command line?

>I know that the below syntax won't work:
>./add_members -r - "firstname1 lastname1" <user1 at domain.com> somelistname

There're a few things wrong with that command line.

First, you'd probably have to quote the special characters, ", <, and >.

Second, with "-r -" you specify that add_members will read the addresses
of the members to add from standard input.

I.e. you could try something like
  echo '"firstname lastname" <user at domain.example>' |
    add_members -r - listname

>[...]

Kind regards,

Hannah.


From lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il  Thu Sep 22 13:09:20 2005
From: lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il (lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:09:20 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual host document root for mailman/listinfo
Message-ID: <5570AD7B7ABD5F4493883FF8F482BC94014CF78B@exchsrv01.haifa.edu>

Hi,
You should make something like this in your apache.conf (or whatever you call it apache conf. file)
For SuSE for example do something like:

In /etc/apache2/default-server.conf (add these lines):
##################
##
## mailman
##

# Redirect queries to /mailman to the listinfo page (recommended)
RedirectMatch /[/]*$ http://mylists.com/mailman/listinfo

##
## end mailman
##
################## 

Regards,
Leon Kolchinsky

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+lkolchin=univ.haifa.ac.il at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+lkolchin=univ.haifa.ac.il at python.org] On Behalf Of Christian Anton
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:48 PM
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Virtual host document root for mailman/listinfo

Tom Combs wrote:

>Hello,
>
> I'm running mailman-2.1.6rc4 and apache-2.0.54. I have a virtual host 
>set up  for my mailman web interface. I would like the listinfo page to 
>be the default  page for my mailman web address so one can enter 
>http://mylists.com instead  of http://mylists.com/mailman/listinfo.  I 
>haven't been able to figure out what  the document root setting for the 
>mylists virtual host setting should be in the  apache http.conf file. 
>Can anyone point me in the right direction?
>
>  Thanks,  Tom Combs
>
>  
>

sorry Tom, first mail was replied falsely, wanted to send it to the list, not to you....

I made it simple,
i have put a directory "htdocs" in /home/mailman, where my mailman is installed (because of settings in suExec that does not allow to execute cgi's that are not in wwwroot), in the lists.<mydomain>.<tld> vhost i have DocumentRoot in /home/www/htdocs, in there is one html-File with this content:

<html>
<head>
<title>Redirection</title>
<meta http-equiv="refresh" content="0; URL=mailman/listinfo"> </head> <body> If the redirection does not work, click <a href="mailman/listinfo">here</a>!
</body>
</html>

This is of course not a very fine solution but it works, and it works with virtual hosts too, just give every apache vhost for which you have mailinglists the DocumentRoot /home/mailman/htdocs.


Greets

Christian
------------------------------------------------------
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From lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il  Thu Sep 22 13:32:26 2005
From: lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il (lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:32:26 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding new members with their fullnames
	viacommandline
Message-ID: <5570AD7B7ABD5F4493883FF8F482BC94014CF78C@exchsrv01.haifa.edu>

Hello Hannah,

Thanks for your reply.

Terrific, there is no syntax for such thing in ./add_members --help!!!

This syntax is working:
echo '"firstname lastname" <user at domain.example>' | ./add_members -r - testlist2

Could you please tell what syntax should I use if I have file with the list of users, like following:
firstname1 lastname1 <user1 at domain.com>
firstname2 lastname2 <user2 at domain.com>
..................

Best Regards,
Leon Kolchinsky





-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+lkolchin=univ.haifa.ac.il at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+lkolchin=univ.haifa.ac.il at python.org] On Behalf Of Hannah Schroeter
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:08 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] adding new members with their fullnames viacommandline

Hello!

On Thu, Sep 22, 2005 at 12:00:58PM +0300, lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il wrote:
>Hello Again,

>Is it true that there is no way to add member to the list with his full name from the command line?

>I know that the below syntax won't work:
>./add_members -r - "firstname1 lastname1" <user1 at domain.com> 
>somelistname

There're a few things wrong with that command line.

First, you'd probably have to quote the special characters, ", <, and >.

Second, with "-r -" you specify that add_members will read the addresses of the members to add from standard input.

I.e. you could try something like
  echo '"firstname lastname" <user at domain.example>' |
    add_members -r - listname

>[...]

Kind regards,

Hannah.
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
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From j.harris at digital-ink.co.uk  Thu Sep 22 14:08:55 2005
From: j.harris at digital-ink.co.uk (Jon Harris)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:08:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] AOL Whitelist
Message-ID: <69017732FDF92A4BB7E6F6B2E33B25B301394D20@server2900.DigitalInk.local>

Hi List

After about a year of trying, I think I have finally got AOL to
whitelist my (subscription only!) mailing list :-(

http://postmaster.aol.com/cgi-bin/whitelist.pl (if anyone is interested)

In the mailing list I have around 1500 members with aol addresses with
their 'nosend' ticked. Obviously, after repeated bounces mailman has
given up trying to send it to them.

I could, through the web interface, untick the 'nosend' flag, to switch
them all back on again which would take ages.

Is their a way of clearing the nosend flag from the command line for all
@aol.com addresses?

TIA

Jon Harris




From matt.singerman at gmail.com  Thu Sep 22 16:02:28 2005
From: matt.singerman at gmail.com (Matt Singerman)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:02:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsuccessful subscribe/unsubscribe notifications?
Message-ID: <54682af5050922070218feea4b@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I was wondering if there is a way for Mailman to send the
administrator a notification email whenever there is an unsuccessful
subscribe or unsubscribe attempt.  I know it is possible whenever the
subscribe/unsubscribe goes through, but I cannot find an option for
the former, and it would be extremely helpful.

Thanks,

Matt


From finley at anl.gov  Thu Sep 22 16:46:32 2005
From: finley at anl.gov (Brian Elliott Finley)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:46:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Synchronizing Mailman between two servers.
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20050915100352.053daeb0@lin-syr.nysernet.org>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20050915100352.053daeb0@lin-syr.nysernet.org>
Message-ID: <4332C3C8.1090209@anl.gov>

Aaron,

I'm very interested in the solution you chose, and in how well it works
for you.

I'm in the process of designing a fault-tolerant mailman installation,
and any wisdom from experience would be very useful.

Thanks!

-Brian


IT Purchases wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> Any thoughts on what is the best way to synchronize mailman databases
> between to linux boxes?
>
> If my alias_maps are defined the same in /etc/postfix/main.cf are the
> same on both hosts can I just duplicate my /usr/lib/mailman and
> /var/lib/mailman directories?
>
> Aaron
>    ~
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/finley%40anl.gov
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp>
>

-- 
Brian Elliott Finley
Linux Strategist, CIS
Desk: 630.252.4742
Cell: 630.631.6621



From dpifer at odu.edu  Thu Sep 22 17:28:40 2005
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:28:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Monthly password reminders not working
In-Reply-To: <1127325688.1827.11.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
References: <1127313758.28649.318.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
	<1127319201.1827.2.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
	<1127324688.28649.343.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
	<1127325688.1827.11.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <1127402920.28649.1578.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

Hello,

On Wed, 2005-09-21 at 14:01, John Dennis wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-09-21 at 13:44 -0400, Darren G Pifer wrote:
> > 
> > Anything else?
> 
> Well, if it were me I'd edit the script and throw in a few print
> statements in a few judicious places to track what it was or wasn't
> doing since you're not getting any info in the logs.
> 
> Python print statements are pretty easy, in its simplest form:
> 
> print "value1=%s value2=%s" % (value1, value2)
> 
> each %s is replaced by the matching value inside the parens, just make
> sure the indentation of the print statement lines up.

Thanks for the 'print' statement because I do not know python, but
it will be on my list to learn it.

I added this to my version of mailpasswds at line 237:

    print "msg=%s" % (msg)
    msg.send(sitelist, **{'errorsto': sitebounce,
                          '_nolist' : 1,
                          'verp'    : mm_cfg.VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS,
                         })

The output from the print statement shows that everything is in the
message but once it hands off to msg.send for the delivery that is
it. Where is msg.send located? Also, has anyone played with the
test_message.py script in the mailman/tests directory? I haven't seen
any documentation on the test code, a Google search offers no help and
the Mailman FAQ wizard comes up with zero hits.

Darren
Old Dominion University




From apn at bepolytech.be  Thu Sep 22 18:40:22 2005
From: apn at bepolytech.be (Arnaud de Prelle)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:40:22 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman daemon broken.
Message-ID: <2070.193.190.246.131.1127407222.squirrel@webmail.bepolytech.be>

Hi,

I had two mailing list perfectly running on a FBSD 5.4 server.
Since last reboot the daemon of the mail manager seems broken:

root at bep-pc1|120#/usr/local/etc/rc.d/mailman.sh start
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 547, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 389, in main
    lock = acquire_lock(force)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 213, in acquire_lock
    lock = acquire_lock_1(force)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 205, in acquire_lock_1
    hostname, pid, tempfile = get_lock_data()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 173, in get_lock_data
    pid = int(parts[-1])
ValueError: invalid literal for int(): be> smtp to polytech2010 for 1 rec

Could anyone help me resolving this problem ?

Thank you in advance.

-- 
Arnaud de Prelle
BEPolytech Server Admin
eM at il: apn at bepolytech.be
Web: http://bepolytech.be


From j.grosjean at proxiad.com  Thu Sep 22 18:39:53 2005
From: j.grosjean at proxiad.com (julien grosjean)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:39:53 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with mailman
Message-ID: <4332DE59.6090005@proxiad.com>

Hi everybody,

First, sorry for my poor english...

I install mailman 2.1.5 on my CentOS distro.

I can create list via web interface.
I setup mm_cfg conf file.

By example, i create a list nammed "test"
We can suscribe to the list, but the problem is than when we sent an
email to the list email, such as test at mydomain.com,
just this email receive the mail...
Only test at mydomain.com receive the mail from the sender...
Is there a configuration to make ?

Our email server is not on the same server...

Perhaps there is an aliases problem ?

here is my /etc/aliases file :

mailman:              "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join:         "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe:    "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe:  "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"


test:              "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/test post test"
test-admin:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/test admin test"
test-bounces:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/test bounces test"
test-confirm:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/test confirm test"
test-join:         "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/test join test"
test-leave:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/test leave test"
test-owner:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/test owner test"
test-request:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/test request test"
test-subscribe:    "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/test subscribe test"
test-unsubscribe:  "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/test unsubscribe test"



i found nothing in logs...

all emails are create...

All advices are welcome... :)

Many thanks...




From jdennis at redhat.com  Thu Sep 22 19:00:44 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:00:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with mailman
In-Reply-To: <4332DE59.6090005@proxiad.com>
References: <4332DE59.6090005@proxiad.com>
Message-ID: <1127408444.3303.7.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Thu, 2005-09-22 at 18:39 +0200, julien grosjean wrote:
> By example, i create a list nammed "test"
> We can suscribe to the list, but the problem is than when we sent an
> email to the list email, such as test at mydomain.com,
> just this email receive the mail...
> Only test at mydomain.com receive the mail from the sender...
> Is there a configuration to make ?
> 
> Our email server is not on the same server...

If your mailserver is not local have you configured your SMTPHOST in
mm_cfg?


> i found nothing in logs...

Which logs?

Did you look at /var/log/mailman/smtp to see if the message was sent? If
so does /var/log/mailman/bounce show the mail bounced?
Does /var/log/mailman/error show anything?

Does your test list have members? Are you looking in the inbox of the
test list members to see if it was received? Are you aware that there is
a flag to prevent a sender from receiving their own post, if you send
the mail from the same address you're expecting to see it returned in
from the list, you won't.

Have you looked in /var/log/maillog for SMTP messages?

Have you reloaded your aliases?



-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Sep 22 19:02:21 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:02:21 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Synchronizing Mailman between two servers.
In-Reply-To: <4332C3C8.1090209@anl.gov>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20050915100352.053daeb0@lin-syr.nysernet.org>
	<4332C3C8.1090209@anl.gov>
Message-ID: <p06200700bf589240ab8a@[10.0.1.210]>

At 9:46 AM -0500 2005-09-22, Brian Elliott Finley wrote:

>  I'm very interested in the solution you chose, and in how well it works
>  for you.

	Sorry, I missed the original message.

>  I'm in the process of designing a fault-tolerant mailman installation,
>  and any wisdom from experience would be very useful.

	Generally speaking, I don't think that many people try to do 
this.  You can off-load the web processing with multiple front-end 
web proxies, and you can off-load the mail processing with multiple 
inbound and outbound mail servers (usually best kept as separate 
groups, since the anti-spam, anti-virus, and certain other 
requirements are different for inbound versus outbound use), and the 
rest is just Mailman itself.

	But, if you do want to go the whole nine yards, the Mailman 
programmers have been pretty careful to keep everything relatively 
NFS-safe, so you should just be able to have an NFS filesystem which 
is then mounted on all of the Mailman servers (preferably served by a 
high availability/redundant NFS server cluster).  Doing things over 
NFS will slow down individual operations, but the overall aggregate 
throughput might be able to be higher, if the NFS server has the 
right architecture and you spread the load out across enough Mailman 
servers, etc....

>>  Any thoughts on what is the best way to synchronize mailman databases
>>  between to linux boxes?

	Mailman doesn't really use databases.  At least, not 
out-of-the-box.  There are third-party unsupported patches to allow 
database member adapters, but that's about it.

	Mailman stores pretty much everything into Python "pickle" files, 
which is a particular binary Python-specific file format that can be 
quickly saved and re-loaded in the native binary format.

>>  If my alias_maps are defined the same in /etc/postfix/main.cf are the
>>  same on both hosts can I just duplicate my /usr/lib/mailman and
>>  /var/lib/mailman directories?

	Duplicate?  What do you mean by "duplicate"?  Just once?  If so, 
then the directories would get out-of-sync.  You'd have to keep all 
the directories in sync somehow.

	In a nearline backup method, something as simple as rsync would 
suffice, and would potentially only lose any information that was 
written since the last rsync.

	In a production OLTP type of environment, you'd have to use 
shared filesystems between the sets of machines, and you'd have to 
make sure that those shared filesystems implement all the necessary 
cluster-wide locking facilities, etc... to keep Mailman working 
correctly.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From lists at viplist.us  Thu Sep 22 19:01:49 2005
From: lists at viplist.us (Lloyd F. Tennison)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:01:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] AOL Whitelist
In-Reply-To: <69017732FDF92A4BB7E6F6B2E33B25B301394D20@server2900.DigitalInk.local>
Message-ID: <4332810D.2408.8AF4411@localhost>

Try this patch. 
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=982644&group_id=1
03&atid=300103

Date sent:      	Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:08:55 +0100
From:           	"Jon Harris" <j.harris at digital-ink.co.uk>
To:             	<Mailman-Users at python.org>
Subject:        	[Mailman-Users] AOL Whitelist

> Hi List
> 
> After about a year of trying, I think I have finally got AOL to
> whitelist my (subscription only!) mailing list :-(
> 
> http://postmaster.aol.com/cgi-bin/whitelist.pl (if anyone is interested)
> 
> In the mailing list I have around 1500 members with aol addresses with
> their 'nosend' ticked. Obviously, after repeated bounces mailman has
> given up trying to send it to them.
> 
> I could, through the web interface, untick the 'nosend' flag, to switch
> them all back on again which would take ages.
> 
> Is their a way of clearing the nosend flag from the command line for all
> @aol.com addresses?
> 
> TIA
> 
> Jon Harris
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lists%40viplist.us
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> 


Thanks.

Lloyd F. Tennison
lloyd_tennison at whoever.com

No trees were harmed in the transmission of this message.
However, a rather large number of electrons were temporarily
inconvenienced.



From j.harris at digital-ink.co.uk  Thu Sep 22 19:10:01 2005
From: j.harris at digital-ink.co.uk (Jon Harris)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:10:01 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] AOL Whitelist
Message-ID: <69017732FDF92A4BB7E6F6B2E33B25B301394D25@server2900.DigitalInk.local>

Lloyd

Thanks for that, I will give it a go.

Jon 

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+j.harris=digital-ink.co.uk at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+j.harris=digital-ink.co.uk at python.org] On
Behalf Of Lloyd F. Tennison
Sent: 22 September 2005 18:02
To: Mailman-Users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] AOL Whitelist

Try this patch. 
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=982644&group_id
=1
03&atid=300103

Date sent:      	Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:08:55 +0100
From:           	"Jon Harris" <j.harris at digital-ink.co.uk>
To:             	<Mailman-Users at python.org>
Subject:        	[Mailman-Users] AOL Whitelist

> Hi List
> 
> After about a year of trying, I think I have finally got AOL to 
> whitelist my (subscription only!) mailing list :-(
> 
> http://postmaster.aol.com/cgi-bin/whitelist.pl (if anyone is 
> interested)
> 
> In the mailing list I have around 1500 members with aol addresses with

> their 'nosend' ticked. Obviously, after repeated bounces mailman has 
> given up trying to send it to them.
> 
> I could, through the web interface, untick the 'nosend' flag, to 
> switch them all back on again which would take ages.
> 
> Is their a way of clearing the nosend flag from the command line for 
> all @aol.com addresses?
> 
> TIA
> 
> Jon Harris
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lists%40viplist.u
> s
> 
> Security Policy: 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.h
> tp
> 
> 


Thanks.

Lloyd F. Tennison
lloyd_tennison at whoever.com

No trees were harmed in the transmission of this message.
However, a rather large number of electrons were temporarily
inconvenienced.

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/j.harris%40digital-
ink.co.uk

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From matt.singerman at gmail.com  Thu Sep 22 19:19:30 2005
From: matt.singerman at gmail.com (Matt Singerman)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:19:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsuccessful subscribe/unsubscribe notifications?
Message-ID: <54682af50509221019651393d@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I was wondering if there is a way for Mailman to send the
administrator a notification email whenever there is an unsuccessful
subscribe or unsubscribe attempt.  I know it is possible whenever the
subscribe/unsubscribe goes through, but I cannot find an option for
the former, and it would be extremely helpful.

Thanks,

Matt


From dpifer at odu.edu  Thu Sep 22 19:19:15 2005
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:19:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Monthly password reminders not working
In-Reply-To: <1127402920.28649.1578.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
References: <1127313758.28649.318.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
	<1127319201.1827.2.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
	<1127324688.28649.343.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
	<1127325688.1827.11.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
	<1127402920.28649.1578.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <1127409555.28649.1586.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

Hello,

On Thu, 2005-09-22 at 11:28, Darren G Pifer wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> On Wed, 2005-09-21 at 14:01, John Dennis wrote:
> > On Wed, 2005-09-21 at 13:44 -0400, Darren G Pifer wrote:
> > > 
> > > Anything else?
> > Python print statements are pretty easy, in its simplest form:
> > 
> > print "value1=%s value2=%s" % (value1, value2)
> > 
> > each %s is replaced by the matching value inside the parens, just make
> > sure the indentation of the print statement lines up.
> 
> Thanks for the 'print' statement because I do not know python, but
> it will be on my list to learn it.
> 
> I added this to my version of mailpasswds at line 237:
> 
>     print "msg=%s" % (msg)
>     msg.send(sitelist, **{'errorsto': sitebounce,
>                           '_nolist' : 1,
>                           'verp'    : mm_cfg.VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS,
>                          })

Just to let everyone know, for grins and giggles, I changed the msg.send
line to:

msg.send(mlist)

and it sent the password reminder. Now I must find out why the original
code did not work. Can someone who knows python tell me what the second
argument to msg.send is doing? Also, were there changes in the code
from 2.1.6b4 (our current version) to 2.1.6 for mailpasswds? We will be
upgrading soon but I wonder if we should do it sooner rather than later.

Darren 



From ifetch at du.edu  Thu Sep 22 19:46:40 2005
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:46:40 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Synchronizing Mailman between two servers.
In-Reply-To: <p06200700bf589240ab8a@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20050915100352.053daeb0@lin-syr.nysernet.org>
	<4332C3C8.1090209@anl.gov> <p06200700bf589240ab8a@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <20050922113047.Q87929@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>

Hello,

    i'm looking at this for our setup as well.  How are others handling 
the Mailman processes (qrunners) starting on a second server once the first 
server has gone down, and switching back to the first server once it has 
recovered?

    Mailman's locks are usually not cleaned up properly when a server 
unexpectedly fails - although we could force the locks to be removed and 
start mailman processes on the second machine, we'll need to be sure that 
the first machine is really "dead".  I assume two machines trying to run 
qrunners on the same mailman directories at once is not a good thing.


    This brings me to search for a way to insure that even if other 
services on a machine are not available, Mailman is certainly not 
operating on the Mailman directories before I try starting Mailman 
processes on a second machine.  Perhaps looking at access / 
modification times of particualr files or directories, relative to the 
current time?  Are there any ideas or comments from others doing or 
looking into this?


- Ivan Fetch.



>>  I'm very interested in the solution you chose, and in how well it works
>>  for you.
>
> 	Sorry, I missed the original message.
>
>>  I'm in the process of designing a fault-tolerant mailman installation,
>>  and any wisdom from experience would be very useful.
>
> 	Generally speaking, I don't think that many people try to do
> this.  You can off-load the web processing with multiple front-end
> web proxies, and you can off-load the mail processing with multiple
> inbound and outbound mail servers (usually best kept as separate
> groups, since the anti-spam, anti-virus, and certain other
> requirements are different for inbound versus outbound use), and the
> rest is just Mailman itself.
>
> 	But, if you do want to go the whole nine yards, the Mailman
> programmers have been pretty careful to keep everything relatively
> NFS-safe, so you should just be able to have an NFS filesystem which
> is then mounted on all of the Mailman servers (preferably served by a
> high availability/redundant NFS server cluster).  Doing things over
> NFS will slow down individual operations, but the overall aggregate
> throughput might be able to be higher, if the NFS server has the
> right architecture and you spread the load out across enough Mailman
> servers, etc....
>
>>>  Any thoughts on what is the best way to synchronize mailman databases
>>>  between to linux boxes?
>
> 	Mailman doesn't really use databases.  At least, not
> out-of-the-box.  There are third-party unsupported patches to allow
> database member adapters, but that's about it.
>
> 	Mailman stores pretty much everything into Python "pickle" files,
> which is a particular binary Python-specific file format that can be
> quickly saved and re-loaded in the native binary format.
>
>>>  If my alias_maps are defined the same in /etc/postfix/main.cf are the
>>>  same on both hosts can I just duplicate my /usr/lib/mailman and
>>>  /var/lib/mailman directories?
>
> 	Duplicate?  What do you mean by "duplicate"?  Just once?  If so,
> then the directories would get out-of-sync.  You'd have to keep all
> the directories in sync somehow.
>
> 	In a nearline backup method, something as simple as rsync would
> suffice, and would potentially only lose any information that was
> written since the last rsync.
>
> 	In a production OLTP type of environment, you'd have to use
> shared filesystems between the sets of machines, and you'd have to
> make sure that those shared filesystems implement all the necessary
> cluster-wide locking facilities, etc... to keep Mailman working
> correctly.
>
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
>
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
>
>     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
>
>   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ifetch%40du.edu
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>
>


From kujala at cc.jyu.fi  Thu Sep 22 20:09:18 2005
From: kujala at cc.jyu.fi (Osmo Kujala)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:09:18 +0300 (EEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Redirecting html-pages to another mailman server
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0509222105560.11478@tukki.cc.jyu.fi>



Hi List

I'm trying to migrate from version 2.0.8 to 2.1.5 by transferring
lists one by one from old server to new server. Problem is to keep
server name the same (lists.jyu.fi) all the time. So I decided to
first move that name to new server and redirect mail addresses and
html-accesses from there to old server. Mail is handled by aliases-file.
For www-pages I'm creating "fake-lists" with names suchlike in old server
and with old server as host_name. That will direct links on html-pages to
old server, but direct html-accesses must be redirected too.
I'm doing this using templates like:

/usr/lib/mailman/lists/test-list/en/admlogin.html:

<meta http-equiv="refresh" content="5;
url=http://lists2.cc.jyu.fi%(path)s">

/usr/lib/mailman/lists/test-list/en/listinfo.html:

<meta http-equiv="refresh"
 content="5; url=http://lists2.cc.jyu.fi/mailman/listinfo/<MM-List-Name>">

/usr/lib/mailman/lists/test-list/en/options.html:

????  This is one problem. Access of members option-page is not directly
handled by options.html-template any more, like it was in version 2.0.8,
and templates are not at all compatible. Any ideas how to get this
working?
Apache-redirect's are possible, but I did like the template approach more
so far. Also don't want to modify .../Cgi/options.py.

Someone must have considered something like this before. I tried to find
something from archives and FAQ wizard, but no hit yet.

I think it would be easy to add such list option to Mailman to
redirect all list access to another server?

This approach is not only for migrating lists but could serve as
kind of "front end" distributing lists among several servers.

regards
        Osmo Kujala



From bwlist at gmail.com  Thu Sep 22 20:23:34 2005
From: bwlist at gmail.com (Brian Wong)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:23:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML Message Excerpt
Message-ID: <e1c904a4050922112311602a25@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a way to see the HTML in the 'Message Excerpt' rendered in
the web interface? Some of my users find it inconvenient that it is
the raw source of the body. They have a hard time picturing how the
message would look. If not, is there a major reason to why it is not
included?


From jhansen at winonacotter.org  Thu Sep 22 19:56:57 2005
From: jhansen at winonacotter.org (John Hansen)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:56:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change respond_to_post_requests text
In-Reply-To: <20050915152125.M87897@winonacotter.org>
References: <20050915145152.M1040@winonacotter.org>
	<20050915151417.M21049@winonacotter.org>
	<20050915152125.M87897@winonacotter.org>
Message-ID: <20050922175626.M49943@winonacotter.org>

We are using MailMan 2.1.5 on WhiteBox Linux.

Is it possible to change the default message in the respond_to_post_requests
when the message is moderated?  We would like it to be a little more intuitive
for our list members as to why their message is being held.

If so, where is the location of the file so it can be modified?

Thanks.

John

-----------
John Hansen
Director of Information and Technology
Cotter High School & Junior High School
1115 W. Broadway
Winona, MN 55987
(507) 453-5179 - Voice
(507) 453-5199 - Cotter Tech Department


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by the Cotter Technology 
Department, and is believed to be clean.



From casterln at nature.Berkeley.EDU  Thu Sep 22 21:05:18 2005
From: casterln at nature.Berkeley.EDU (Gary Casterline)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:05:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] umbrella lists and approved senders
Message-ID: <20050922190518.GG5787@nature.Berkeley.EDU>


We've set up chain of hierarchical lists to accommodate annual groups.
Each year we create a list for the new cohorts:
    
    class-of-2003 at example.tld
    class-of-2004 at example.tld
    class-of-2005 at example.tld

and then add the new class-of list to the umbrella list:

    alumni at example.tld

Each list is set to allow postings from subscribers and a
small set of approved non-subscribed addresses.  I'd like to add
these approved addresses to the umbrella list and have messages go
through without owner/moderator approval to the sublists.
As it is now, we have to add the approved addresses to each sublist.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

 _Gary




From lists at viplist.us  Thu Sep 22 21:12:56 2005
From: lists at viplist.us (Lloyd F. Tennison)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:12:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Master Unsubscribe
Message-ID: <43329FC8.4838.92750FA@localhost>

I would like to be able to have a main page where a person can remove 
themselves from all lists on the server with just one command/entry.  I know 
they can eventually get to the unsubscribe all button, but I want to be able to 
have an all button like some of the large list services have.

I have thought of making a master list and having that on the main page - but 
cannot find an easy way to link to that unsubscribe all button.  I do not see a 
way that the umbrella can help me here either.




From md69 at md69.co.uk  Thu Sep 22 22:15:23 2005
From: md69 at md69.co.uk (Martin Dennett)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:15:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] AOL Whitelist
In-Reply-To: <69017732FDF92A4BB7E6F6B2E33B25B301394D20@server2900.DigitalInk.local>
References: <69017732FDF92A4BB7E6F6B2E33B25B301394D20@server2900.DigitalInk.local>
Message-ID: <433310DB.6010306@md69.co.uk>



Jon Harris wrote:

>Hi List
>
>After about a year of trying, I think I have finally got AOL to
>whitelist my (subscription only!) mailing list :-(
>
>http://postmaster.aol.com/cgi-bin/whitelist.pl (if anyone is interested)
>
>In the mailing list I have around 1500 members with aol addresses with
>their 'nosend' ticked. Obviously, after repeated bounces mailman has
>given up trying to send it to them.
>
And after having had my own (subscription only) mailing list added to 
their whitelist, I have been in constant contact with the Mail Delivery 
Analyst of AOL UK AntiSpam operations as that ISP's accounts still seem 
to bounce constantly. After analysing over 100 ov my lists' mails and 
telling me what IP needed adding, he then had the cheek to ask me what 
IP address I'd added! At the moment, he's away on holiday (so his "I'm 
out of the office and I don't want to deal with your mail auto-responder 
tells me) so I'm rubbing my hands with glee in anticipation of next 
Monday morning....

Oh, and just as an aside, myself and my co-moderators have given very 
serious thought to banning AOL addresses on our list. Not a decision 
we've taken lightly, but after 3 such instances with the same ISP in 
less than 5 months (and no othe ISP giving us anywhere near the amount 
of trouble that they have), it's time for action.

Regards

MD


From apn at bepolytech.be  Thu Sep 22 22:25:29 2005
From: apn at bepolytech.be (Arnaud de Prelle)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 22:25:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman daemon broken.
In-Reply-To: <2070.193.190.246.131.1127407222.squirrel@webmail.bepolytech.be>
References: <2070.193.190.246.131.1127407222.squirrel@webmail.bepolytech.be>
Message-ID: <43331339.7080805@bepolytech.be>

Arnaud de Prelle wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I had two mailing list perfectly running on a FBSD 5.4 server.
>Since last reboot the daemon of the mail manager seems broken:
>
>root at bep-pc1|120#/usr/local/etc/rc.d/mailman.sh start
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 547, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 389, in main
>    lock = acquire_lock(force)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 213, in acquire_lock
>    lock = acquire_lock_1(force)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 205, in acquire_lock_1
>    hostname, pid, tempfile = get_lock_data()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 173, in get_lock_data
>    pid = int(parts[-1])
>ValueError: invalid literal for int(): be> smtp to polytech2010 for 1 rec
>
>Could anyone help me resolving this problem ?
>
>Thank you in advance.
>
>  
>
I've found where was situated the problem! Simply in 
/usr/local/mailman/locks ...

-- 
Arnaud de Prelle
BEPolytech Server Admin
eM at il: apn at bepolytech.be
Web: http://bepolytech.be



From heather at madrone.com  Thu Sep 22 22:26:55 2005
From: heather at madrone.com (Heather Madrone)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:26:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] AOL Whitelist
In-Reply-To: <433310DB.6010306@md69.co.uk>
References: <69017732FDF92A4BB7E6F6B2E33B25B301394D20@server2900.DigitalInk.local>
	<433310DB.6010306@md69.co.uk>
Message-ID: <p06230923bf58c322537a@[192.168.123.100]>

At 9:15 PM +0100 9/22/05, Martin Dennett wrote:
>Oh, and just as an aside, myself and my co-moderators have given very
>serious thought to banning AOL addresses on our list. Not a decision
>we've taken lightly, but after 3 such instances with the same ISP in
>less than 5 months (and no othe ISP giving us anywhere near the amount
>of trouble that they have), it's time for action.

That's what I've done.  AOL was an ongoing headache, and I got tired
of their high-handedness.  AOL subscribers who want to receive my
list can use free yahoo or gmail accounts, and many of them do.

-- 
Heather Madrone <heather at madrone.com>
The Home-Ed List:  http://www.madrone.com/Home-ed/helist.html

You can lead a child to learning, but you can't make her think.


From lists at viplist.us  Thu Sep 22 23:13:25 2005
From: lists at viplist.us (Lloyd F. Tennison)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:13:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] AOL Whitelist
Message-ID: <4332BC05.23074.9959DBB@localhost>

I actually have had zero problems with them after the initial whitelisting  
eighteen months ago - except it took over a week when I moved my server.  
(They said it should take 48 hours.)  I send almost 300,000 to them three 
times a week  - all without problems, plus normal hosting emails. They are 
always extremely responsive.

Now with all the changes in Hotmail last week  - THEY are a problem.  Their 
whitelist through BondedSender.com will cost me almost three grand a year.


----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] AOL Whitelist
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:26:55 -0700
From: Heather Madrone <heather at madrone.com>

At 9:15 PM +0100 9/22/05, Martin Dennett wrote:
>Oh, and just as an aside, myself and my co-moderators have given very
>serious thought to banning AOL addresses on our list. Not a decision
>we've taken lightly, but after 3 such instances with the same ISP in
>less than 5 months (and no othe ISP giving us anywhere near the amount
>of trouble that they have), it's time for action.

That's what I've done.  AOL was an ongoing headache, and I got tired
of their high-handedness.  AOL subscribers who want to receive my
list can use free yahoo or gmail accounts, and many of them do.

-- 
Heather Madrone <heather at madrone.com>
The Home-Ed List:  http://www.madrone.com/Home-ed/helist.html

You can lead a child to learning, but you can't make her think.
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-
users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-
users/lists%40viplist.us

Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-
mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



Thanks.

Lloyd F. Tennison
lloyd_tennison at whoever.com

No trees were harmed in the transmission of this message.
However, a rather large number of electrons were temporarily
inconvenienced.



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Sep 22 20:52:52 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 20:52:52 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Synchronizing Mailman between two servers.
In-Reply-To: <20050922113047.Q87929@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
References: <6.2.3.4.2.20050915100352.053daeb0@lin-syr.nysernet.org>
	<4332C3C8.1090209@anl.gov> <p06200700bf589240ab8a@[10.0.1.210]>
	<20050922113047.Q87929@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
Message-ID: <p06200700bf58ad295530@[10.0.1.210]>

At 11:46 AM -0600 2005-09-22, Ivan Fetch wrote:

>     i'm looking at this for our setup as well.  How are others handling
>  the Mailman processes (qrunners) starting on a second server once the
>  first server has gone down, and switching back to the first server once
>  it has recovered?

	You'd have to have some sort of "heartbeat" monitor application 
which uses the standard OS start/stop routines when it decides that 
the other system has gone down, and might need to put in some 
additional lock cleanup code in there.

	Moreover, you'd have to make sure that the problem is not in the 
heartbeat monitor script, which could potentially cause the Mailman 
processes on both machines to be running and each think that the 
other is down.  You'd also need to make sure that you don't start 
Mailman on the second machine if the shared filesystem is not 
properly available.  And there are a bazillion other potential 
failure modes that you'd also need to look out for.

	Doing high availability is tough.  Much tougher than anyone ever 
gives it credit for.


	The problem is that Mailman was never designed to be used/abused 
in this way, so you're pretty much in completely uncharted water.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Sep 23 01:20:30 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 01:20:30 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mmdsr -- Mailman Daily Status Reports (Bourne
 shellscript, updated)
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200509102157330593c1bdfa92@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200509102157330593c1bdfa92@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06200704bf58ec4e21cb@[10.0.1.210]>

At 9:57 PM -0700 2005-09-10, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  The script assumes the a single specified directory (normally the
>  VAR_PREFIX directory) contains the queues in the qfiles/ directory and
>  the logs in the logs/ directory. This isn't the case in all
>  installations. I modified it to allow independent specification of the
>  directory containing the logs.
>
>  The script leaves a temp file behind.
>
>  See the above URL for my comments and patch.

	I've taken your submission and incorporated that, as well as 
fixing another bug that was brought to my attention by Adrian Wells. 
It turns out that there is a minor log file difference between 
Mailman versions 2.1.5 and 2.1.6, which causes the "smtp" log to be 
written in a slightly different format.  The code should now handle 
both styles without problems.

	See the latest version and comments at 
<https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1123383&group_id=103&atid=300103>.


	Thanks!

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From crammos at edu.teiath.gr  Fri Sep 23 10:32:09 2005
From: crammos at edu.teiath.gr (=?ISO-8859-7?Q?=D7=F1=DE=F3=F4=EF=F2_=D1=DC=EC=EC=EF=F2?=)
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:32:09 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with html emails with signature
Message-ID: <4333BD89.2090707@edu.teiath.gr>

Hello all.
I came into a very strange condition.
I sent one HTML email with a signature to a Mailman mailing list without
having a footer and the email arrived well and perfectly signed.
When i tried to do the same but with the difference that i included one
or more reciepients in the CC field then the email arrived with broken
signature

The above problem came using Netscape/Thunderbird email client but when
i used MS Outlook Express then the signature was perfect!!!!!

Does anyone had any similar problem?

P.S.: i am signing this message too.. and making *bold and /italic /to
have some html things to see if it fails to your list too.!!!*

From paulcollen at gmail.com  Fri Sep 23 13:42:37 2005
From: paulcollen at gmail.com (paul collen)
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:42:37 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Small reply address problem
In-Reply-To: <f9a83c8e05092304417517322f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9a83c8e050923043710910ff8@mail.gmail.com>
	<f9a83c8e05092304417517322f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f9a83c8e0509230442734732a0@mail.gmail.com>

Hello there,

I was wondering if someone could help with a small annoying problem. I've
inherited a mailman system (2.1.5) but I'm not exactly up to speed with
Linux and GNU software (but I'm trying). The problem we have is that I can't
seem to change the display name of the reply address. When you receive an
email from our live digi-tech list or even from a test list I've setup it
says it's come from bounces-digi-tech@ or bounces-test at . I've looked through
the admin pages and I've forced the reply address to be digi-tech@ and this
changes the actual reply address to digi-tech@ or test@ but the display
names are still prefixed with bounces-... Is this prefix hidden in a text
file somewhere?

Thanking you in advance :o)

Best regards,

Paul.


From sythos at sythos.net  Fri Sep 23 14:35:06 2005
From: sythos at sythos.net (Sythos)
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:35:06 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Small reply address problem
In-Reply-To: <f9a83c8e0509230442734732a0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9a83c8e050923043710910ff8@mail.gmail.com>
	<f9a83c8e05092304417517322f@mail.gmail.com>
	<f9a83c8e0509230442734732a0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050923123506.GA14664@sythos.net>

On Fri, Sep 23, 2005 at 12:42:37PM +0100, paul collen wrote:
> I was wondering if someone could help with a small annoying problem. I've
> inherited a mailman system (2.1.5) but I'm not exactly up to speed with
> Linux and GNU software (but I'm trying). The problem we have is that I can't
> seem to change the display name of the reply address. When you receive an
> email from our live digi-tech list or even from a test list I've setup it
> says it's come from bounces-digi-tech@ or bounces-test at . I've looked through
> the admin pages and I've forced the reply address to be digi-tech@ and this
> changes the actual reply address to digi-tech@ or test@ but the display
> names are still prefixed with bounces-... Is this prefix hidden in a text
> file somewhere?

In admin panel (via web) force "reply-to" header overwrite and set what
you want

-- 

Sythos - http://www.sythos.net
  ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
  /\                        - against M$ attachments


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Sep 23 15:38:11 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:38:11 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Small reply address problem
In-Reply-To: <f9a83c8e0509230442734732a0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f9a83c8e050923043710910ff8@mail.gmail.com>
	<f9a83c8e05092304417517322f@mail.gmail.com>
	<f9a83c8e0509230442734732a0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p0620070bbf59b50c2eb3@[10.0.1.210]>

At 12:42 PM +0100 2005-09-23, paul collen wrote:

>                                                        When you receive an
>  email from our live digi-tech list or even from a test list I've setup it
>  says it's come from bounces-digi-tech@ or bounces-test at .

	Addresses of the form "bounces-" are not at all what Mailman 
would create.  If you are truly getting this, then it sounds like 
someone made some extensive modifications to your system, and we 
can't help you with those.

	Mailman will send out messages with an envelope sender of 
"listname-bounces" (see what happens when you get your copy of this 
message from the mailman-users list), and some clients will 
inappropriately display this envelope sender address (see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>).


	It sounds to me like you need to provide more explicit details of 
precisely what is actually going on, with complete copies of headers 
from sample messages that you've created.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From j.grosjean at proxiad.com  Fri Sep 23 16:27:38 2005
From: j.grosjean at proxiad.com (julien grosjean)
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:27:38 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can we use an external mail server with mailman ?
Message-ID: <433410DA.1040209@proxiad.com>

Hi everybody,

I have a problem for the configuration of mailman with an external mail 
server

Here is a complement of informations about my first mail :
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/msg34423.html


SETUP DETAILS :

I install mailman 2.1.5 on my CentOS distro.

I setup mm_cfg conf file like this :

##start file
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'extranet-proxiad.com'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'proxiad.com'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
IMAGE_LOGOS = '/icons/'
MTA = 'Postfix'
###end file


MAIL SERVER DETAILS

My Mail Server is NOT on the same server than my mailman server...
My mail server is proxiad.com (217.109.179.10) with smtp.proxiad.com and 
pop.proxiad.com (This server requiert an authentification... )

My mailman server is extranet-proxiad.com (193.252.219.206)

All emails are create on the mail server.
The mail server receive the mail correctly.
With my mail client, test at proxiad.com receive the mail, but not 
suscribers...



THE PROBLEM :

I create a test list via web interface.

We can suscribe to the list, but the problem is than when we sent an
email to the list email, such as test at proxiad.com,
just this email receive the mail...
Only test at proxiad.com receive the mail from the sender...
Is there a configuration to make ?



Perhaps there is an aliases problem ?

Should aliases be on the mail server or on the mailman server ?

here is my /etc/aliases file :

mailman:              "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join:         "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe:    "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe:  "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"

test:              "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post test"
test-admin:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin test"
test-bounces:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces test"
test-confirm:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm test"
test-join:         "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join test"
test-leave:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave test"
test-owner:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner test"
test-request:      "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request test"
test-subscribe:    "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe test"
test-unsubscribe:  "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe test"

I ran newaliases command.

I am aware that there is a flag to prevent a sender from receiving their 
own post...


Logs are not very usefull... no error is reported...

Can we use an external mail server with mailman running on another server  ?

All advices are welcome...

Many thanks...



From jdennis at redhat.com  Fri Sep 23 16:53:12 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:53:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can we use an external mail server with	mailman
	?
In-Reply-To: <433410DA.1040209@proxiad.com>
References: <433410DA.1040209@proxiad.com>
Message-ID: <1127487192.31473.14.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, 2005-09-23 at 16:27 +0200, julien grosjean wrote:
> MAIL SERVER DETAILS
> 
> My Mail Server is NOT on the same server than my mailman server...
> My mail server is proxiad.com (217.109.179.10) with smtp.proxiad.com and 
> pop.proxiad.com (This server requiert an authentification... )
> 
> My mailman server is extranet-proxiad.com (193.252.219.206)
> 
> All emails are create on the mail server.
> The mail server receive the mail correctly.
> With my mail client, test at proxiad.com receive the mail, but not 
> suscribers...

> THE PROBLEM :
> 
> I create a test list via web interface.
> 
> We can suscribe to the list, but the problem is than when we sent an
> email to the list email, such as test at proxiad.com,
> just this email receive the mail...
> Only test at proxiad.com receive the mail from the sender...
> Is there a configuration to make ?
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps there is an aliases problem ?
> 
> Should aliases be on the mail server or on the mailman server ?

Part of the problem is the term mail server can be confusing because
there are two mail servers in the picture, a receiving mail server and a
sending mail server. Mailman needs run on the same machine the receiving
mail server is on otherwise your aliases will not work. The reason is
because when the receving mail server receives an email destined for a
mailman list the mail server will via its aliases determine the
destination for that list email is a program called mailman, thats what
all those aliases are all about. The receiving mail server then hands
the incoming list email to the program mailman. It can only give it to
the program mailman if mailman is running on the same machine.

Mailman in turn takes the email it received and looks up all the members
of the list and forwards the email to each of them. To do this mailman
invokes a sending mail server. Often the sending and receiving mail
servers (SMTP) are the same and run on the same box. But you can direct
mailman to use a different sending SMTP server via the SMTPHOST
variable.

Summary: mailman and the receiving SMTP server must be on the same
machine.

You description is a bit confusing because the way I read it mailman has
in fact received the list email (your previous post shows mailman
sending smtp posts). It could only have done that if it the its running
on the same machine as the receiving SMTP server and the aliaes are
correct. I suspect what actually occurred is those are examples from
mail sent on the machine mailman is running on where everything will
resolve correctly.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From jdennis at redhat.com  Fri Sep 23 17:02:30 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:02:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can we use an external mail server with	mailman
	?
In-Reply-To: <433410DA.1040209@proxiad.com>
References: <433410DA.1040209@proxiad.com>
Message-ID: <1127487751.31473.24.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, 2005-09-23 at 16:27 +0200, julien grosjean wrote:
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'proxiad.com'
> My mailman server is extranet-proxiad.com (193.252.219.206)

> We can suscribe to the list, but the problem is than when we sent an
> email to the list email, such as test at proxiad.com,

Sorry, I should have said this in my last email. This will not work. You
are tyring to send mail to proxiad.com but mailman is on
extranet-proxiad.com. proxiad.com won't know what to do with the mail,
Unless proxiad.com knows to relay the mail to extranet-proxiad.com.

Issues of relaying and SMTP configuration are outside the scope of the
mailman-users list. You will need to learn what the SMTP server is on
proxiad.com and configure it correctly. Or, locate everything on one
server.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From sean at adoptionmedia.com  Fri Sep 23 18:22:51 2005
From: sean at adoptionmedia.com (Sean Roe)
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:22:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new and improved stupid error
Message-ID: <43342BDB.5060107@adoptionmedia.com>

Hi All,

I am getting the following error now when I start up mailman:

[client 192.168.4.199] Exception exceptions.A
ttributeError: "MysqlMemberships instance has no attribute 'cursor'" in 
<bound m
ethod MysqlMemberships.__del__ of 
<Mailman.MysqlMemberships.MysqlMemberships ins
tance at 0x40221a8c>> ignored


I think the other sysadmin may of removed something by accident (or on 
purpose)  :)
Again, I am not a python guy at all, so be gentle.

Thanks,
Sean


From jdennis at redhat.com  Fri Sep 23 18:56:50 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:56:50 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new and improved stupid error
In-Reply-To: <43342BDB.5060107@adoptionmedia.com>
References: <43342BDB.5060107@adoptionmedia.com>
Message-ID: <1127494610.3713.22.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Fri, 2005-09-23 at 09:22 -0700, Sean Roe wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I am getting the following error now when I start up mailman:
> 
> [client 192.168.4.199] Exception exceptions.A
> ttributeError: "MysqlMemberships instance has no attribute 'cursor'" in 
> <bound m
> ethod MysqlMemberships.__del__ of 
> <Mailman.MysqlMemberships.MysqlMemberships ins
> tance at 0x40221a8c>> ignored
> 
> 
> I think the other sysadmin may of removed something by accident (or on 
> purpose)  :)
> Again, I am not a python guy at all, so be gentle.

You are getting this error because either MysqlMemberships did not
initialize (the variable "cursor" is set in the MysqlMemberships
constructor) or possibly because the MysqlMemberships class instance was
destroyed more than once, but that seems unlikely. I would check how the
MysqlMemberships class instance is being created, which is likely in a
file called extend.py in the list directory ($prefix/lists/NAME where
NAME is the name of one of your lists).

Sorry, I realize this is a very python'ic answer but its the best I can
do given the info.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From bjorn at sourcelabs.com  Fri Sep 23 19:36:51 2005
From: bjorn at sourcelabs.com (Bjorn-Erik Townsend)
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:36:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing list creation mail has no Date header
	(bug#1212066)
Message-ID: <43343D33.6040406@sourcelabs.com>

Greetings all,

I'm using Mailman 2.1.6 (stable) with Courier-MTA, and I'm encountering 
bug 1212066 (mailing list creation mail has no Date: header).  
Unfortunately, Courier does not seem to insert a Date header if none is 
already present, so I'm receiving message creation mails with no date 
header.  It's setting off spamfilters and generally  being problematic 
for me. 

My question is twofold:

1) This bug hasn't been updated since May; are there any plans to fix it?
2) Does anyone know of a way to get Courier to insert Date headers if 
needed? I know RFC2822 says that this is not its job, but it would be 
nice to have a workaround until this issue is fixed.

Thank you for your attention!

--
Bjorn Townsend | bjorn at sourcelabs.com


From alysson at fgv.br  Fri Sep 23 20:41:51 2005
From: alysson at fgv.br (Alysson Dias)
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:41:51 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ?? restore only 1 list in backup ".tar"
Message-ID: <E0AC4ADF8F1B8C4A9EC7BCA300C336420742661C@fgvrj41.fgv.br>

Hi....

 

How I restore backup (file mailman.tar of complete /home/mailman) of
only 1 list in the server?

 

 

 



From rekoil at semihuman.com  Fri Sep 23 22:45:13 2005
From: rekoil at semihuman.com (Christopher Woodfield)
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:45:13 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] X-Mailing-List and non-local domain names?
Message-ID: <3FBC7C9E-31AC-4AAE-AF22-CC525C161289@semihuman.com>

Hi,

I recently took over running a list that runs on a friend's domain  
(let's call it foo.com) on my box, which is bar.com. We currently  
have everything working by setting up a "list at bar.com" list on the  
local mailman, pointing a "list at foo.com" alias to it (the original  
address of the list), and setting up an explicit reply-to to point to  
list at foo.com so the replies go to the right place.

The only other thing going on here is the fact that all of the  
mailing list headers (X-Beenthere, List-Id:, etc) still say  
"list at bar.com". I would prefer if bar.com's involvement in the list  
be transparent, which obviously isn't happening. Is there a way to  
configure mailman to change this behavior?

Thanks,

-Chris


From r.barrett at ftel.co.uk  Fri Sep 23 23:58:14 2005
From: r.barrett at ftel.co.uk (Richard Barrett)
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 22:58:14 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Revised patch #820723 Mailman/pipermail/MHonArc
	integration patch
Message-ID: <1d1f38db7dc7dd0c5ec3af6f9cd9f7a6@ftel.co.uk>

Just posted revised patch to:

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/? 
func=detail&aid=820723&group_id=103&atid=300103

and also available here (and also a revised version of the prepack  
Mailman distribution mm-ht-mh-2.1.6-0.2.tgz):

http://www.openinfo.co.uk/mm/patches/mhonarc/index.html

Reason for revision is as follow:

mhonarc-2.1.6-0.2.patch.gz corrects an error in the modified code of  
$prefix/bin/arch introduced by the mhonarc-2.1.6-0.1.patch.gz - the  
problem was not present in patches for previous MM versions. In some  
circumstances, after running $prefix/bin/arch --wipe, the HTML message  
archive pages of subsequent posts to a list  and per period archive  
index page my be generated using the wrong archiver. Examining index  
and message pages in the archives of a list will show if this problem  
has affected that list. Reinstallation with this revised patch and  
rerunning $prefix/bin/arch --wipe should resolve the problem for any  
affected list.



From mdunston at music.vt.edu  Sat Sep 24 04:38:21 2005
From: mdunston at music.vt.edu (michael dunston)
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 22:38:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] recommendations for adding conditional search form
	to archive template?
Message-ID: <r02010500-1042-4640C4082CA411DAAA6000112475E44C@[10.0.1.2]>

I would like to add a search form to some, but not all, of the archive TOC pages.  It looks like the most logical place to add the search form code would be the $prefix/templates/*/archtoc.html file, but I'm not sure how I would make this list-specific.  I thought I might try an IF statement <http://python.org/doc/2.4.1/ref/if.html> to only include a form when %(listname) matches a desired list, but I cant seem to get the syntax right.

Another idea that I though was to change the indexer so that:
    
    $prefix/templates/*/archtoc.html -> $prefix/archive/private/*/index.php
    
 rather than
    
    $prefix/templates/*/archtoc.html -> $prefix/archive/private/*/index.html
    
which would also allow me to dynamically include search forms dynamically with PHP but I'm not sure if/how that would be done either.  

Any suggestions or direction would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Sep 24 16:24:56 2005
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 23:24:56 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email rejected with un-quoted From with a dot
In-Reply-To: <20050921051531.GB31752@hank.org> (Bill Moseley's message of
	"Tue, 20 Sep 2005 22:15:31 -0700")
References: <20050917025124.GA11397@hank.org>
	<87hdchkmqj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<20050921051531.GB31752@hank.org>
Message-ID: <874q8aee6f.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Bill" == Bill Moseley <moseley at hank.org> writes:

    Bill> You know what's very odd?  When they send mail directly to
    Bill> me their name includes the quotes.

    "Foo B. User" <user at invalid.com>

    Bill> When they send mail to the list then it's held and looking
    Bill> at the headers in the Mailmain admindb page it has their
    Bill> From: header without the quotes:

    From: Foo B. User <user at invalid.com>

    Bill> I have to assume that my old version of Mailman is stripping
    Bill> the quotes.  Very odd.

It's possible, but there are other possibilities.  Specifically, your
MUA that you use to read the directly-delivered mail is _adding_ the
quotes to force the mail into RFC compliance.  Other possibilities are
intervening MTAs and MDAs.

-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From lists at viplist.us  Sat Sep 24 22:00:03 2005
From: lists at viplist.us (Lloyd F. Tennison)
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:00:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can we use an external mail server
	with	mailman	?
In-Reply-To: <1127487192.31473.14.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <433410DA.1040209@proxiad.com>
Message-ID: <43354DD3.9186.238892A@localhost>

Actually, I found a mod someone had written to do exactly that.   

In mm_cfg.py need to set these values:

SMTPHOST = 'mail.newserver'
#SMTP_USERNAME = 'username'
#SMTP_PASSWORD = 'password'
#DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
DELIVERY_MODULE = 'ASMTPDirect'
# Needs to be 1 for ASMTPDirect to work
SMTP_AUTH = 1

and use the attached ASMTPDirect file.

I no longer use this, so this has not been updated to 2.16, so you mau want 
to check it all out.

The was orginally received from someone else on this list, so I do not take 
credit for it.






From:           	John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>
To:             	julien grosjean <j.grosjean at proxiad.com>
Date sent:      	Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:53:12 -0400
Copies to:      	mailman-users at python.org
Subject:        	Re: [Mailman-Users] Can we use an external mail server with	mailman
	?

> On Fri, 2005-09-23 at 16:27 +0200, julien grosjean wrote:
> > MAIL SERVER DETAILS
> > 
> > My Mail Server is NOT on the same server than my mailman server...
> > My mail server is proxiad.com (217.109.179.10) with smtp.proxiad.com and 
> > pop.proxiad.com (This server requiert an authentification... )
> > 
> > My mailman server is extranet-proxiad.com (193.252.219.206)
> > 
> > All emails are create on the mail server.
> > The mail server receive the mail correctly.
> > With my mail client, test at proxiad.com receive the mail, but not 
> > suscribers...
> 
> > THE PROBLEM :
> > 
> > I create a test list via web interface.
> > 
> > We can suscribe to the list, but the problem is than when we sent an
> > email to the list email, such as test at proxiad.com,
> > just this email receive the mail...
> > Only test at proxiad.com receive the mail from the sender...
> > Is there a configuration to make ?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Perhaps there is an aliases problem ?
> > 
> > Should aliases be on the mail server or on the mailman server ?
> 
> Part of the problem is the term mail server can be confusing because
> there are two mail servers in the picture, a receiving mail server and a
> sending mail server. Mailman needs run on the same machine the receiving
> mail server is on otherwise your aliases will not work. The reason is
> because when the receving mail server receives an email destined for a
> mailman list the mail server will via its aliases determine the
> destination for that list email is a program called mailman, thats what
> all those aliases are all about. The receiving mail server then hands
> the incoming list email to the program mailman. It can only give it to
> the program mailman if mailman is running on the same machine.
> 
> Mailman in turn takes the email it received and looks up all the members
> of the list and forwards the email to each of them. To do this mailman
> invokes a sending mail server. Often the sending and receiving mail
> servers (SMTP) are the same and run on the same box. But you can direct
> mailman to use a different sending SMTP server via the SMTPHOST
> variable.
> 
> Summary: mailman and the receiving SMTP server must be on the same
> machine.
> 
> You description is a bit confusing because the way I read it mailman has
> in fact received the list email (your previous post shows mailman
> sending smtp posts). It could only have done that if it the its running
> on the same machine as the receiving SMTP server and the aliaes are
> correct. I suspect what actually occurred is those are examples from
> mail sent on the machine mailman is running on where everything will
> resolve correctly.
> -- 
> John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lists%40viplist.us
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> 



-------------- next part --------------
# Copyright (C) 1998-2003 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
# modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
# as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
# of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
#
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
# GNU General Public License for more details.
#
# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
# along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
# Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA.

"""Local SMTP direct drop-off w/Authtenication.

This module delivers messages via SMTP to a locally specified daemon.  This
should be compatible with any modern SMTP server.  It is expected that the MTA
handles all final delivery.  We have to play tricks so that the list object
isn't locked while delivery occurs synchronously.

Note: This file only handles single threaded delivery.  See SMTPThreaded.py
for a threaded implementation.
"""

import copy
import time
import socket
import smtplib
from types import UnicodeType

from Mailman import mm_cfg
from Mailman import Utils
from Mailman import Errors
from Mailman.Handlers import Decorate
from Mailman.Logging.Syslog import syslog
from Mailman.SafeDict import MsgSafeDict

import email
from email.Utils import formataddr
from email.Header import Header
from email.Charset import Charset

DOT = '.'



# Manage a connection to the SMTP server
class Connection:
    def __init__(self):
        self.__connect()

    def __connect(self):
        self.__conn = smtplib.SMTP()
        self.__conn.connect(mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
        if mm_cfg.SMTP_AUTH:
            self.__conn.login(mm_cfg.SMTP_USERNAME, mm_cfg.SMTP_PASSWORD)
        self.__numsessions = mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION

    def sendmail(self, envsender, recips, msgtext):
        try:
            results = self.__conn.sendmail(envsender, recips, msgtext)
        except smtplib.SMTPException:
            # For safety, reconnect
            self.__conn.quit()
            self.__connect()
            # Let exceptions percolate up
            raise
        # Decrement the session counter, reconnecting if necessary
        self.__numsessions -= 1
        # By testing exactly for equality to 0, we automatically handle the
        # case for SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION <= 0 meaning never close
        # the connection.  We won't worry about wraparound <wink>.
        if self.__numsessions == 0:
            self.__conn.quit()
            self.__connect()
        return results

    def quit(self):
        self.__conn.quit()



def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
    recips = msgdata.get('recips')
    if not recips:
        # Nobody to deliver to!
        return
    # Calculate the non-VERP envelope sender.
    envsender = msgdata.get('envsender')
    if envsender is None:
        if mlist:
            envsender = mlist.GetBouncesEmail()
        else:
            envsender = Utils.get_site_email(extra='bounces')
    # Time to split up the recipient list.  If we're personalizing or VERPing
    # then each chunk will have exactly one recipient.  We'll then hand craft
    # an envelope sender and stitch a message together in memory for each one
    # separately.  If we're not VERPing, then we'll chunkify based on
    # SMTP_MAX_RCPTS.  Note that most MTAs have a limit on the number of
    # recipients they'll swallow in a single transaction.
    deliveryfunc = None
    if (not msgdata.has_key('personalize') or msgdata['personalize']) and (
           msgdata.get('verp') or mlist.personalize):
        chunks = [[recip] for recip in recips]
        msgdata['personalize'] = 1
        deliveryfunc = verpdeliver
    elif mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_RCPTS <= 0:
        chunks = [recips]
    else:
        chunks = chunkify(recips, mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_RCPTS)
    # See if this is an unshunted message for which some were undelivered
    if msgdata.has_key('undelivered'):
        chunks = msgdata['undelivered']
    # If we're doing bulk delivery, then we can stitch up the message now.
    if deliveryfunc is None:
        # Be sure never to decorate the message more than once!
        if not msgdata.get('decorated'):
            Decorate.process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
            msgdata['decorated'] = 1
        deliveryfunc = bulkdeliver
    refused = {}
    t0 = time.time()
    # Open the initial connection
    origrecips = msgdata['recips']
    # `undelivered' is a copy of chunks that we pop from to do deliveries.
    # This seems like a good tradeoff between robustness and resource
    # utilization.  If delivery really fails (i.e. qfiles/shunt type
    # failures), then we'll pick up where we left off with `undelivered'.
    # This means at worst, the last chunk for which delivery was attempted
    # could get duplicates but not every one, and no recips should miss the
    # message.
    conn = Connection()
    try:
        msgdata['undelivered'] = chunks
        while chunks:
            chunk = chunks.pop()
            msgdata['recips'] = chunk
            try:
                deliveryfunc(mlist, msg, msgdata, envsender, refused, conn)
            except Exception:
                # If /anything/ goes wrong, push the last chunk back on the
                # undelivered list and re-raise the exception.  We don't know
                # how many of the last chunk might receive the message, so at
                # worst, everyone in this chunk will get a duplicate.  Sigh.
                chunks.append(chunk)
                raise
        del msgdata['undelivered']
    finally:
        conn.quit()
        msgdata['recips'] = origrecips
    # Log the successful post
    t1 = time.time()
    d = MsgSafeDict(msg, {'time'    : t1-t0,
                          # BAW: Urg.  This seems inefficient.
                          'size'    : len(msg.as_string()),
                          '#recips' : len(recips),
                          '#refused': len(refused),
                          'listname': mlist.internal_name(),
                          'sender'  : msg.get_sender(),
                          })
    # We have to use the copy() method because extended call syntax requires a
    # concrete dictionary object; it does not allow a generic mapping.  It's
    # still worthwhile doing the interpolation in syslog() because it'll catch
    # any catastrophic exceptions due to bogus format strings.
    if mm_cfg.SMTP_LOG_EVERY_MESSAGE:
        syslog.write_ex(mm_cfg.SMTP_LOG_EVERY_MESSAGE[0],
                        mm_cfg.SMTP_LOG_EVERY_MESSAGE[1], kws=d)

    if refused:
        if mm_cfg.SMTP_LOG_REFUSED:
            syslog.write_ex(mm_cfg.SMTP_LOG_REFUSED[0],
                            mm_cfg.SMTP_LOG_REFUSED[1], kws=d)

    elif msgdata.get('tolist'):
        # Log the successful post, but only if it really was a post to the
        # mailing list.  Don't log sends to the -owner, or -admin addrs.
        # -request addrs should never get here.  BAW: it may be useful to log
        # the other messages, but in that case, we should probably have a
        # separate configuration variable to control that.
        if mm_cfg.SMTP_LOG_SUCCESS:
            syslog.write_ex(mm_cfg.SMTP_LOG_SUCCESS[0],
                            mm_cfg.SMTP_LOG_SUCCESS[1], kws=d)

    # Process any failed deliveries.
    tempfailures = []
    permfailures = []
    for recip, (code, smtpmsg) in refused.items():
        # DRUMS is an internet draft, but it says:
        #
        #    [RFC-821] incorrectly listed the error where an SMTP server
        #    exhausts its implementation limit on the number of RCPT commands
        #    ("too many recipients") as having reply code 552.  The correct
        #    reply code for this condition is 452. Clients SHOULD treat a 552
        #    code in this case as a temporary, rather than permanent failure
        #    so the logic below works.
        #
        if code >= 500 and code <> 552:
            # A permanent failure
            permfailures.append(recip)
        else:
            # Deal with persistent transient failures by queuing them up for
            # future delivery.  TBD: this could generate lots of log entries!
            tempfailures.append(recip)
        if mm_cfg.SMTP_LOG_EACH_FAILURE:
            d.update({'recipient': recip,
                      'failcode' : code,
                      'failmsg'  : smtpmsg})
            syslog.write_ex(mm_cfg.SMTP_LOG_EACH_FAILURE[0],
                            mm_cfg.SMTP_LOG_EACH_FAILURE[1], kws=d)
    # Return the results
    if tempfailures or permfailures:
        raise Errors.SomeRecipientsFailed(tempfailures, permfailures)



def chunkify(recips, chunksize):
    # First do a simple sort on top level domain.  It probably doesn't buy us
    # much to try to sort on MX record -- that's the MTA's job.  We're just
    # trying to avoid getting a max recips error.  Split the chunks along
    # these lines (as suggested originally by Chuq Von Rospach and slightly
    # elaborated by BAW).
    chunkmap = {'com': 1,
                'net': 2,
                'org': 2,
                'edu': 3,
                'us' : 3,
                'ca' : 3,
                }
    buckets = {}
    for r in recips:
        tld = None
        i = r.rfind('.')
        if i >= 0:
            tld = r[i+1:]
        bin = chunkmap.get(tld, 0)
        bucket = buckets.get(bin, [])
        bucket.append(r)
        buckets[bin] = bucket
    # Now start filling the chunks
    chunks = []
    currentchunk = []
    chunklen = 0
    for bin in buckets.values():
        for r in bin:
            currentchunk.append(r)
            chunklen = chunklen + 1
            if chunklen >= chunksize:
                chunks.append(currentchunk)
                currentchunk = []
                chunklen = 0
        if currentchunk:
            chunks.append(currentchunk)
            currentchunk = []
            chunklen = 0
    return chunks



def verpdeliver(mlist, msg, msgdata, envsender, failures, conn):
    for recip in msgdata['recips']:
        # We now need to stitch together the message with its header and
        # footer.  If we're VERPIng, we have to calculate the envelope sender
        # for each recipient.  Note that the list of recipients must be of
        # length 1.
        #
        # BAW: ezmlm includes the message number in the envelope, used when
        # sending a notification to the user telling her how many messages
        # they missed due to bouncing.  Neat idea.
        msgdata['recips'] = [recip]
        # Make a copy of the message and decorate + delivery that
        msgcopy = copy.deepcopy(msg)
        Decorate.process(mlist, msgcopy, msgdata)
        # Calculate the envelope sender, which we may be VERPing
        if msgdata.get('verp'):
            bmailbox, bdomain = Utils.ParseEmail(envsender)
            rmailbox, rdomain = Utils.ParseEmail(recip)
            if rdomain is None:
                # The recipient address is not fully-qualified.  We can't
                # deliver it to this person, nor can we craft a valid verp
                # header.  I don't think there's much we can do except ignore
                # this recipient.
                syslog('smtp', 'Skipping VERP delivery to unqual recip: %s',
                       recip)
                continue
            d = {'bounces': bmailbox,
                 'mailbox': rmailbox,
                 'host'   : DOT.join(rdomain),
                 }
            envsender = '%s@%s' % ((mm_cfg.VERP_FORMAT % d), DOT.join(bdomain))
        if mlist.personalize == 2:
            # When fully personalizing, we want the To address to point to the
            # recipient, not to the mailing list
            del msgcopy['to']
            name = None
            if mlist.isMember(recip):
                name = mlist.getMemberName(recip)
            if name:
                # Convert the name to an email-safe representation.  If the
                # name is a byte string, convert it first to Unicode, given
                # the character set of the member's language, replacing bad
                # characters for which we can do nothing about.  Once we have
                # the name as Unicode, we can create a Header instance for it
                # so that it's properly encoded for email transport.
                charset = Utils.GetCharSet(mlist.getMemberLanguage(recip))
                if charset == 'us-ascii':
                    # Since Header already tries both us-ascii and utf-8,
                    # let's add something a bit more useful.
                    charset = 'iso-8859-1'
                charset = Charset(charset)
                codec = charset.input_codec or 'ascii'
                if not isinstance(name, UnicodeType):
                    name = unicode(name, codec, 'replace')
                name = Header(name, charset).encode()
                msgcopy['To'] = formataddr((name, recip))
            else:
                msgcopy['To'] = recip
        # We can flag the mail as a duplicate for each member, if they've
        # already received this message, as calculated by Message-ID.  See
        # AvoidDuplicates.py for details.
        del msgcopy['x-mailman-copy']
        if msgdata.get('add-dup-header', {}).has_key(recip):
            msgcopy['X-Mailman-Copy'] = 'yes'
        # For the final delivery stage, we can just bulk deliver to a party of
        # one. ;)
        bulkdeliver(mlist, msgcopy, msgdata, envsender, failures, conn)



def bulkdeliver(mlist, msg, msgdata, envsender, failures, conn):
    # Do some final cleanup of the message header.  Start by blowing away
    # any the Sender: and Errors-To: headers so remote MTAs won't be
    # tempted to delivery bounces there instead of our envelope sender
    del msg['sender']
    del msg['errors-to']
    msg['Sender'] = envsender
    msg['Errors-To'] = envsender
    # Get the plain, flattened text of the message, sans unixfrom
    msgtext = msg.as_string()
    refused = {}
    recips = msgdata['recips']
    try:
        # Send the message
        refused = conn.sendmail(envsender, recips, msgtext)
    except smtplib.SMTPRecipientsRefused, e:
        refused = e.recipients
    # MTA not responding, or other socket problems, or any other kind of
    # SMTPException.  In that case, nothing got delivered
    except (socket.error, smtplib.SMTPException, IOError), e:
        # BAW: should this be configurable?
        syslog('smtp', 'All recipients refused: %s', e)
        # If the exception had an associated error code, use it, otherwise,
        # fake it with a non-triggering exception code
        errcode = getattr(e, 'smtp_code', -1)
        errmsg = getattr(e, 'smtp_error', 'ignore')
        for r in recips:
            refused[r] = (errcode, errmsg)
    failures.update(refused)

From lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il  Sun Sep 25 11:46:23 2005
From: lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il (lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il)
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 12:46:23 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Small reply address problem
Message-ID: <5570AD7B7ABD5F4493883FF8F482BC94014CF790@exchsrv01.haifa.edu>

Hi,

There is a known problem with Microsoft E-mail clients.
Client shows the Sender and not From address, this is not a standart behavior, but hey, microsoft don't give a f... about standarts, they make standarts of their own.

Just try to use Kmail or another normal mail client and you'll see that the problem gone.

Regards,
Leon Kolchinsky
 

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+lkolchin=univ.haifa.ac.il at python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+lkolchin=univ.haifa.ac.il at python.org] On Behalf Of Sythos
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 3:35 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Small reply address problem

On Fri, Sep 23, 2005 at 12:42:37PM +0100, paul collen wrote:
> I was wondering if someone could help with a small annoying problem. 
> I've inherited a mailman system (2.1.5) but I'm not exactly up to 
> speed with Linux and GNU software (but I'm trying). The problem we 
> have is that I can't seem to change the display name of the reply 
> address. When you receive an email from our live digi-tech list or 
> even from a test list I've setup it says it's come from 
> bounces-digi-tech@ or bounces-test at . I've looked through the admin 
> pages and I've forced the reply address to be digi-tech@ and this 
> changes the actual reply address to digi-tech@ or test@ but the 
> display names are still prefixed with bounces-... Is this prefix hidden in a text file somewhere?

In admin panel (via web) force "reply-to" header overwrite and set what you want

-- 

Sythos - http://www.sythos.net
  ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
  /\                        - against M$ attachments
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lkolchin%40univ.haifa.ac.il

Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Sun Sep 25 14:08:14 2005
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 07:08:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Small reply address problem
In-Reply-To: <5570AD7B7ABD5F4493883FF8F482BC94014CF790@exchsrv01.haifa.edu>
Message-ID: <BF5BFD5E.F131%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 9/25/05 4:46 AM, lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il at lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il
wrote:

> There is a known problem with Microsoft E-mail clients.
> Client shows the Sender and not From address, this is not a standart behavior,
> but hey, microsoft don't give a f... about standarts, they make standarts of
> their own.

Just for the record, it is a known problem with SOME Microsoft e-mail
clients. Entourage 2004 (the e-mail client part of Office 2004 for the
Macintosh) does not exhibit this annoying behavior nor, AFAIK, do any
previous versions of Entourage or its Mac OS 9 predecessor which was called
Outlook Express but had nothing in common with Outlook Express for Windows.

-- Larry Stone
   lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
   http://www.stonejongleux.com/




From jpierre at cisware.com  Sun Sep 25 15:14:41 2005
From: jpierre at cisware.com (Jimmy Pierre)
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:14:41 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] urgent and challenging problem mailman export
Message-ID: <20050925131452.8B2DD1E4004@bag.python.org>

Greetings,

I spent an interesting time looking for information on how to export mailman
list emails to a text file and import in the new domain.

The issue is that I am not root on the dedicated server, so there are a few
python scripts that will not work. (access denied et al)

Tried http://www.thepeters.org/mailmanBackup.htm and I have a few pages per
alphabetical letter...

Any help greatly appreciated.

Best wishes,


Jimmy
http://www.conceptinteractiveservices.com



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Sep 25 17:47:02 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:47:02 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] urgent and challenging problem mailman export
In-Reply-To: <20050925131452.8B2DD1E4004@bag.python.org>
References: <20050925131452.8B2DD1E4004@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <p06200703bf5c7686865f@[10.0.1.210]>

At 3:14 PM +0200 2005-09-25, Jimmy Pierre wrote:

>  I spent an interesting time looking for information on how to export mailman
>  list emails to a text file and import in the new domain.

	Are you talking about trying to take the archive of the list on 
one server and import that into another server?

>  The issue is that I am not root on the dedicated server, so there are a few
>  python scripts that will not work. (access denied et al)

	If you're not a priviledged site admin with root access, then you 
won't be able to import the archives.  Period.  That's just the way 
Mailman works.

	If you can't get root access, then you need to ask whomever is 
providing you hosting services to do this for you.  If they won't, 
then you need to find hosting services somewhere else.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Sep 25 18:16:23 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 09:16:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] urgent and challenging problem mailman export
In-Reply-To: <p06200703bf5c7686865f@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509250916230984a4007eaf@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 3:14 PM +0200 2005-09-25, Jimmy Pierre wrote:
>
>
>>  The issue is that I am not root on the dedicated server, so there are a few
>>  python scripts that will not work. (access denied et al)
>
>	If you're not a priviledged site admin with root access, then you 
>won't be able to import the archives.  Period.  That's just the way 
>Mailman works.

It is true that you need at least shell access with write access to
Mailman to import archives, but if you have standard pipermail
archives, you can 'export' the archives by visiting a URL similar to

http://www.example.com/mailman/private/<listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox

whether or not this appears as a link on the archive index page. This
URL is the list's cumulative archive mbox file in standard Unix mbox
format.

If you are taken to a login page, you will have to explicitly go to the
URL again after logging in.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From moseley at hank.org  Sun Sep 25 18:24:45 2005
From: moseley at hank.org (Bill Moseley)
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 09:24:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lost list admin password
Message-ID: <20050925162445.GA17517@hank.org>

2.1.5 on Debian Stable

"mailman admin password" are not very good search words.

Is there a way for list admins to get the *list* password sent to
them?  That is, if they forget the list's password (not their password)
can they have mailman send it to them?

Any reason why admins are not managed along with all the other list
members?  And just have an additional role for "admin"?


-- 
Bill Moseley
moseley at hank.org



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Sep 25 18:42:49 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 09:42:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lost list admin password
In-Reply-To: <20050925162445.GA17517@hank.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402005092509424907659d39796e@msapiro>

Bill Moseley wrote:
>
>Is there a way for list admins to get the *list* password sent to
>them?  That is, if they forget the list's password (not their password)
>can they have mailman send it to them?


No. The member's passwords are stored as plain text. The list passwords
(admin and moderator) are stored as a more secure, irreversible hash.


>Any reason why admins are not managed along with all the other list
>members?  And just have an additional role for "admin"?


In addition to the fact that the admin passwords are stored in a more
secure way because the consequences of compromise are more serious,
there is no requirement that the list admin(s) be a list member.


--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From moseley at hank.org  Sun Sep 25 19:17:03 2005
From: moseley at hank.org (Bill Moseley)
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 10:17:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Lost list admin password
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005092509424907659d39796e@msapiro>
References: <20050925162445.GA17517@hank.org>
	<PC17402005092509424907659d39796e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20050925171703.GA18580@hank.org>

On Sun, Sep 25, 2005 at 09:42:49AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >Any reason why admins are not managed along with all the other list
> >members?  And just have an additional role for "admin"?
> 
> 
> In addition to the fact that the admin passwords are stored in a more
> secure way because the consequences of compromise are more serious,
> there is no requirement that the list admin(s) be a list member.

They could be set as "nomail", of course.  Plus, is there any way
currently to know *which* admin or moderator approved or changed some
config setting?  That would be one reason to use the same system for
managing normal users, admins, and moderators.

I forgot my CPAN PAUSE password the other day -- it doesn't send you
your password (I assume it doesn't know the plain text password), but
rather it sends a brand new password that has to be confirmed before
it can be used.  A little more complex, but that's what ya get for
forgetting your password.

-- 
Bill Moseley
moseley at hank.org



From jpierre at cisware.com  Sun Sep 25 19:21:51 2005
From: jpierre at cisware.com (Jimmy Pierre)
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 19:21:51 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] urgent and challenging problem mailman export
In-Reply-To: <p06200703bf5c7686865f@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <20050925172155.11C9D1E4006@bag.python.org>

Hi Brad,

Thanks for your input! I will not need the archives, just an export of the
email addresses in order to import on the same server.

Export domainA.com => domainB.com
Both based with the same hosting company, same DNS etc. I have the
login/password of both domains, in fact I run both domains.

You are quite clear though, I need root access. I cannot even updatedb to do
a "whereis" in SSH.

Are you saying that some hosting companies give you root access? Or I will
need to run the servers myself?

Backups?

Cheers,
Jimmy



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Sep 25 19:38:32 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 10:38:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] urgent and challenging problem mailman export
In-Reply-To: <20050925172155.11C9D1E4006@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402005092510383206712a33e0df@msapiro>

Jimmy Pierre wrote:
>
>Thanks for your input! I will not need the archives, just an export of the
>email addresses in order to import on the same server.
>
>Export domainA.com => domainB.com
>Both based with the same hosting company, same DNS etc. I have the
>login/password of both domains, in fact I run both domains.
>
>You are quite clear though, I need root access. I cannot even updatedb to do
>a "whereis" in SSH.
>
>Are you saying that some hosting companies give you root access? Or I will
>need to run the servers myself?

While it is true that you need root access to install Mailman, you do
not generally need root access to administer Mailman on a server. The
ability to log in as the mailman user or su or sudo as the mailman
user is generally sufficient. However, hosting companies will
generally not give this access either

Exporting a subscriber list and 'importing' it to another list without
the ability to do bin/list_members, bin/add_members, etc. can be
accomplished by scripting the web interface to obtain the list and
then mass subscribing it. Regular vs. digest can be easily handled by
doing the job in two pieces. Other user options are trickier, but can
be done. See
http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#throughtheweb for some
example scripts.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mailman at yingtong.co.uk  Sun Sep 25 22:31:37 2005
From: mailman at yingtong.co.uk (mailman at yingtong.co.uk)
Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 21:31:37 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permissions problem/symlinks on a RAQ4
Message-ID: <43370929.5050907@yingtong.co.uk>

Hi,  I have installed a partially working version of Mailman 2.1.6 with
Python 2.4.1 on a RAQ4

THe actual lists are working but the problem is with the web interface
reporting a permission problem, and the httpd error log reporting
"Symbolic link not allowed"

THe background to it is that I've run usr2home (which does does what it
says, and moves the files to create more space and symlinks the usr
folder.)  RAQs have limited space in /usr.

I ran the ./configure with mailman mail and httpd gids as normal and it
all installs,  set up lists via command line etc, but try as I might the
web interface refuses to display

In httpd.conf

Snipped

ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/"
Options +ExecCGI +FollowSymLinks
AddHandler cgi-wrapper .cgi
AddHandler cgi-wrapper .pl
<Directory "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin">
Options +ExecCGI +FollowSymLinks
</Directory>

</VirtualHost>

(Tried with and without quotes btw)

Nothing gives.

I tried installing to /home/mailman and there I got the gui up but for
the life of me couldn't get the mail to work!  Also the gui displayed
but then no values submitted entered the database and retained????

Users and groups are AFAICT set correctly, and check_perms is fine.
(THough I don't pretned to understand the finer details of how
permissions work)

Please, can anyone give a pointer, (and in return I'll do a FAQ for
installing on a RAQ!)

Tim





From moseley at hank.org  Mon Sep 26 17:07:57 2005
From: moseley at hank.org (Bill Moseley)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:07:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce_info_stale_after
Message-ID: <20050926150756.GB27934@hank.org>

Two questions about bounce processing in 2.1.5.

First question:

The bounce_info_stale_after is regardless of list traffic?  I.e. is
the bounce information discarded after bounce_info_stale_after days
regardless if there's been any outgoing mail?

For example, if you have a list where a message goes out just once
every week, but you have bounce_info_stale_after less than a week then
will a bouncing address *ever* get disabled?


Second questions:

After bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval is finished is the
address really "removed" as the docs say, or just set to "nomail"?
I assume it really means "removed".


-- 
Bill Moseley
moseley at hank.org



From paulcollen at gmail.com  Mon Sep 26 18:06:32 2005
From: paulcollen at gmail.com (paul collen)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:06:32 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd:  Small reply address problem
In-Reply-To: <BF5BFD5E.F131%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
References: <5570AD7B7ABD5F4493883FF8F482BC94014CF790@exchsrv01.haifa.edu>
	<BF5BFD5E.F131%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <f9a83c8e05092609061e032f4f@mail.gmail.com>

Hello again,

Yep, works fine in any client apart from Outlook!! ;o)

Does anybody know how to manually edit the Sender address mailman uses?

Cheers,

Paul.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Larry Stone <lstone19 at stonejongleux.com>
Date: Sep 25, 2005 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Small reply address problem
To: Mailman <mailman-users at python.org>

On 9/25/05 4:46 AM, lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il at lkolchin at univ.haifa.ac.il
wrote:

> There is a known problem with Microsoft E-mail clients.
> Client shows the Sender and not From address, this is not a standart
behavior,
> but hey, microsoft don't give a f... about standarts, they make standarts
of
> their own.

Just for the record, it is a known problem with SOME Microsoft e-mail
clients. Entourage 2004 (the e-mail client part of Office 2004 for the
Macintosh) does not exhibit this annoying behavior nor, AFAIK, do any
previous versions of Entourage or its Mac OS 9 predecessor which was called
Outlook Express but had nothing in common with Outlook Express for Windows.

-- Larry Stone
lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/


------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/paulcollen%40gmail.com

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From ffla at friendshipforcelosangeles.org  Mon Sep 26 18:09:04 2005
From: ffla at friendshipforcelosangeles.org (Felipe)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 09:09:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customize an Auto-Respond Message
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1127750042.25566.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.0.1127750042.25566.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <20050926160913.23C5C1E4002@bag.python.org>

I've searched the archives but I can't find my solution.
I want to customize the unsubscribe message which is automatically sent.
The text now reads:
You have been unsubscribed. ------------------

What I want is in carets below:
<the name and address> has been unsubscribed.<line break>
-----------------------------------

I cannot figure out how to get the name and address into the message, nor
can I get the text to break.  Is this possible?  TIA, felipe.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Sep 26 19:20:43 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 19:20:43 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd:  Small reply address problem
In-Reply-To: <f9a83c8e05092609061e032f4f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5570AD7B7ABD5F4493883FF8F482BC94014CF790@exchsrv01.haifa.edu>
	<BF5BFD5E.F131%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
	<f9a83c8e05092609061e032f4f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06200704bf5dde52c1d3@[10.0.1.210]>

At 5:06 PM +0100 2005-09-26, paul collen wrote:

>  Does anybody know how to manually edit the Sender address mailman uses?

	You're welcome to try changing the source code, but then don't 
expect to get any support for that on this mailing list.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From davidh at 7gen.com  Mon Sep 26 20:16:09 2005
From: davidh at 7gen.com (David Herron)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:16:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing config.pck values? (I'm in a pickle)
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0509261415100.68955@pi.pair.com>



I've been using mailman for a few years to manage a couple mailing lists,
but I just now subscribed to this list.

Over the weekend I moved my lists from one server to another.  The process
was fairly painless ... I just packed up the archives and lists
directories and copied those over to a new server.  I even upgraded from
2.1.5 to 2.1.6 at the same time.  And the lists are functioning great in
the new location but for one thing.

The new server is configured using Plesk, and Plesk sets up the mailman
admin pages on http://lists.mydomain.xyz

On my old server I'd done it all myself, and they were set up on
http://mydomain.xyz

This means the config.pck file from my old server has this value:
          'web_page_url': 'http://healership.com/mailman/',

Whereas the config.pck file generated on my new server has this value:
           'web_page_url': 'http://lists.healership.com/mailman/',

I want to use the old config.pck because that's the one that has all my
members and other settings.  It looks to me that all I have to do is
change the web_page_url value.  One can easily dump the .pck file using
this dump command, but I don't know how to "undump" it.

I searched in the archives and found this answer:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2002-May/020222.html
But the bin/move_list script doesn't exist.

So, as that guy asked 3 yrs ago, how the heck do you undump one of these
.pck files???

Oh, and I know nothing about Python ... so when the usage message for the
dump command says it dumps a "python pickle" that doesn't tell me
anything, and only makes me think of the old Arlo Guthrie song about "I
don't wanna die, I just wanna ride my motorcy-le" ...

Maybe there's something in python to deal with them pickle things, but I
sure as heck don't know what it would be.

- David Herron


From jdennis at redhat.com  Mon Sep 26 20:35:30 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:35:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing config.pck values? (I'm in a pickle)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0509261415100.68955@pi.pair.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0509261415100.68955@pi.pair.com>
Message-ID: <1127759730.14505.32.camel@localhost.localdomain>

You probably want to use the fix_url utility. Look in
PREFIX/bin/fix_url.py, you will find documentation at the top of the
file. Note, you don't run fix_url directly, its invoked by running
PREFIX/bin/with_list, the doc explains this.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From dpifer at odu.edu  Mon Sep 26 20:34:42 2005
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:34:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private archive for list
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200509160933440421e449e731@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200509160933440421e449e731@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1127759681.6722.33.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

Hello,

    Sorry about the delay in my answer but wasn't able to get to
this till now.

On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 12:33, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Darren G Pifer wrote:
> 
> >I have been trying to get to the private archives of a list but 
> >when I click on the URL http://list.odu.edu/private/telephone_logs/
> >I get nothing on the page. I have been able to access other archives of
> >private lists but for some reason I am not seeing any for this list. I
> >have thought about trying this
> >
> >bin/arch --wipe list-name
> >
> >but I don't want to remove the archives. Is there anything I check for
> >or another script to run to find out if a file is corrupt?
> >Just to be sure, I checked that this list does have a mbox in
> >the archives/private/telephone_logs directory.
> 
> Are you sure archiving is enabled for this list?

Yes, it is.

> Is there a global mailbox file at
> archives/private/telephone_logs.mbox/telephone_logs.mbox or just the
> archives/private/telephone_logs.mbox/ directory without the file?

There is an archives/private/telephone_logs.mbox file but no
archives/private/telephone_logs.mbox directory.

> If the archives/private/telephone_logs.mbox/telephone_logs.mbox file
> exists and contains the past posts to the list, then
> 
> bin/arch --wipe list-name
> 
> should build archives. If the .mbox file is there and the HTML archives
> are not being created, there is probably a permissions issue.

Do I need to do something to rebuild telephone_logs.mbox? Is it looks
for a telephone_logs.mbox/telephone_logs.mbox file? The index.html file
is empty. Shouldn't contain something?

Regards,

Darren
Old Dominion University



From davidh at 7gen.com  Mon Sep 26 21:10:07 2005
From: davidh at 7gen.com (David Herron)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:10:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing config.pck values? (I'm in a pickle)
In-Reply-To: <1127759730.14505.32.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0509261415100.68955@pi.pair.com>
	<1127759730.14505.32.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0509261506190.68955@pi.pair.com>


Thank you, that did the trick.

- David Herron, energy healer, http://peaceguide.com/

On Mon, 26 Sep 2005, John Dennis wrote:

> You probably want to use the fix_url utility. Look in
> PREFIX/bin/fix_url.py, you will find documentation at the top of the
> file. Note, you don't run fix_url directly, its invoked by running
> PREFIX/bin/with_list, the doc explains this.
> --
> John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>
>
>


From spelatta at post.rzn.ru  Mon Sep 26 21:13:27 2005
From: spelatta at post.rzn.ru (Victor Komarov)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 23:13:27 +0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 3 questions
Message-ID: <099a01c5c2ce$a4a670f0$acef1ad4@speleoy9dy3jmh>

Good day.

I would like to do better working my Mailman 2.1.4 list.

1. Is it possible to save messages with attachment in archives?

2. My list is russian speaking. 
So, archive page
http://schooner.coastlandtech.com/pipermail/speleo-info
is in KOI-8R Character Coding. 
But each times they appear in brouser in ISO-8859-1 and user must handly to change in brouser encoding to KOI-8R.

Do you know the way to solve this problem?

3. When I try to get the help file, I can't to get it by email...
Come back message like this, without help file. 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Victor Komarov" <....>
To: <speleo-info-request at speleoinfo.org>
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 2:33 AM
Subject: help

Do you know the way to solve this problem?

Thanks advance for help.

Best of all.
--
Victor Komarov

From lists at viplist.us  Mon Sep 26 23:10:24 2005
From: lists at viplist.us (Lloyd F. Tennison)
Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:10:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe from All Lists on Webpage for User
Message-ID: <43380150.32195.12B86B@localhost>

I would like to be able to have a main page where a person can remove 
themselves from all lists on the server with just one command/entry.  I know 
they can eventually get to the unsubscribe all button, but I want to be able to 
have an all button like some of the large list services have.

I have thought of making a master list and having that on the main page - but 
cannot find an easy way to link to that unsubscribe all button.  I do not see a 
way that the umbrella can help me here either.




From JPOTEET at genesco.com  Tue Sep 27 07:24:03 2005
From: JPOTEET at genesco.com (Jim Poteet)
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 00:24:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hidden Members
Message-ID: <s338913a.066@GW00.genesco.com>

I have a list that is used for announcement-only type postings and which is infrequently used. I'm getting post-confirmation requests for a couple of members that I can't find in the membership list. I'm assuming these are members who opted to be hidden.

One of the post confirmations is coming directly from the member who has done a reply trying to unsubscribe, so I can email him and tell him the correct way to unsubscribe.

The other post confirmation is from AOL saying that the member doesn't have a post office box, so apparently he'll stay in the member list until bounce processing stops delivery (but he'll still be in the list, right?).

Is there any way I can get rid of these hidden members from within the browser admin panels.

Thanks ... Jim



From aliasrob at gmail.com  Tue Sep 27 17:02:05 2005
From: aliasrob at gmail.com (Alias)
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:02:05 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatically reject posts by non-members
Message-ID: <cfabe12605092708021ff4af82@mail.gmail.com>

Hi guys,

Recently lots of people have started to try spamming my mailing lists - this
is not such a problem as because they're non-members the posts get held for
moderation - however, it's distinctly annoying that I have to keep deleting
them, and also getting mail alerts for them. Could anyone direct me towards
the configuration screen that manages moderation options?

Thanks in advance,
Alias


From combs at magnet.fsu.edu  Tue Sep 27 17:20:58 2005
From: combs at magnet.fsu.edu (Tom Combs)
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:20:58 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Tailor List specific RFC mail headers?
Message-ID: <4339635A.7080409@magnet.fsu.edu>

Hi,

 I would like to remove the List-Subscribe and List-Unsubscribe for some
announcement only type lists where the memebers cannot subscribe or
unsubscribe. Is there a way to customize this behavior for individual lists?

Thanks.

-- 
Tom Combs                                  E-mail: combs at magnet.fsu.edu
National High Magnetic Field Laboratory    Phone: (850) 644-1657
1800 E. Paul Dirac Drive                   Tallahassee, FL 32310



From JPOTEET at genesco.com  Tue Sep 27 18:18:37 2005
From: JPOTEET at genesco.com (Jim Poteet)
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:18:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman archive doesn't word wrap
Message-ID: <s3392aac.033@GW00.genesco.com>

I'm having a problem with my archive not doing line wrapping, ie, each paragraph in a message shows as an infinitely long line that requires horizontal scrolling to read. The following message was posted on this list a couple of years ago, but the thread ended and I didn't see any further comment. Does anyone know if this is still applicable? Is it a global change or can it be done list by list? Are ISPs generally willing to make such a change?

>From Tokio Kikuchi tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp
>Thu Feb 20 21:23:36 EST 2003
>
>  * Previous message: [Mailman-Users] Word wrap in archives
>  * Next message: [Mailman-Users] Another feature request (for >email commands)
>  * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
>>
>Hi,
>
>There are constants in Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py
>class HyperArchive(pipermail.T):
>
>    SHOWHTML = 0              # Eg, nuke leading whitespace in html manner.
>    SHOWBR = 0                # Add <br> onto every line
>
>If you chenge both to 1, then you will get long lines wrapped at
>the end of the browser width.
>
>Tokio



From moseley at hank.org  Tue Sep 27 19:59:16 2005
From: moseley at hank.org (Bill Moseley)
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:59:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List all members?
Message-ID: <20050927175916.GB11233@hank.org>

In 2.1.5 there's that nice membership display by first letter of their
email address.

How do I display all members on the same page?  Or maybe 20 at a time?
I've got a bunch of small lists that are less than 50 members.

I tried searching for just a dot (.) that doesn't work for some
reason.

Wish list:  separate first and last name fields.  Have each column click-able
for sorting (and reverse sorting) and paged display with rows/page
adjustable.


-- 
Bill Moseley
moseley at hank.org



From manuelk at fibertel.com.ar  Tue Sep 27 20:04:42 2005
From: manuelk at fibertel.com.ar (Manuel Kissoyan)
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:04:42 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachements question
Message-ID: <01ff01c5c38d$eff5b6f0$6401a8c0@sarna>

Hi,

Wondering if someone know the answer of this, made for one of our clients... 

"With the mailman software for mailing lists, it has the option of scrubbing attatchments to the list and converts them to a link for people who are on the list to click on to get the attatchment rather than everyone having to download it. 
My question is, how long are these files saved for people to download and are they automatically deleted after a while? Is there a way for me to manually go in and delete them so they dont build up and take up server space? Im assuming they self delete after a while because clicking on one of the link now indicates its not there."  
 
Thank you in advance! 

From rae at gitchee.com  Tue Sep 27 20:40:28 2005
From: rae at gitchee.com (Rae)
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:40:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatically reject posts by non-members
In-Reply-To: <cfabe12605092708021ff4af82@mail.gmail.com>
References: <cfabe12605092708021ff4af82@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20050927133638.03329ce8@gitchee.com>

Privacy Options / Sender Filters

Non-members filters:

Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit 
action is defined.
[ ] Accept [ ] Hold [ ] Reject [ x ] Discard

Should messages from non-members, which are automatically discarded, 
be forwarded to the list moderator?
[ ] No [ ] Yes

Set this is Yes, if you want to receive them without having to do 
anything else. Set this to No, if you don't want to receive them.

Best wishes,
Rae

At 10:02 AM 9/27/2005, you wrote:
>Hi guys,
>
>Recently lots of people have started to try spamming my mailing lists - this
>is not such a problem as because they're non-members the posts get held for
>moderation - however, it's distinctly annoying that I have to keep deleting
>them, and also getting mail alerts for them. Could anyone direct me towards
>the configuration screen that manages moderation options?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Alias


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Sep 27 21:17:37 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 21:17:37 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachements question
In-Reply-To: <01ff01c5c38d$eff5b6f0$6401a8c0@sarna>
References: <01ff01c5c38d$eff5b6f0$6401a8c0@sarna>
Message-ID: <p06200713bf5f4add2b27@[10.0.1.210]>

At 3:04 PM -0300 2005-09-27, Manuel Kissoyan wrote:

>  My question is, how long are these files saved for people to download

	They are saved until some other process comes along to clean them out.

>                                                                        and
>  are they automatically deleted after a while?

	That's not part of the standard cron jobs, no.

>                                                 Is there a way for me
>  to manually go in and delete them so they dont build up and take up
>  server space?

	Sure, you can go manually delete them.  Or you can set up a cron 
job to go delete any attachments more than a certain age.

>                 Im assuming they self delete after a while because
>  clicking on one of the link now indicates its not there."

	That implies that something else is going on.  There is no 
standard cron job that I know of to clean out the old attachments.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Sep 27 22:08:17 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:08:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No public lists
In-Reply-To: <432F3886.8000902@wolfstar.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509271308020093e02dc75f@msapiro>

Michel R Vaillancourt wrote:
>
>	Mail is still moving properly to the list server.  However, the web 
>interface died almost immediately.  Specifically, if you go to 
>http://lists.wolfstar.ca/mailman/listinfo.cgi it says:
>
>"There currently are no publicly-advertised Mailman mailing lists on 
>lists.wolfstar.ca."

See
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Article 4.29, partiucularly "Existing versus new lists". 

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Sep 28 00:57:02 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:57:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automatically reject posts by non-members
In-Reply-To: <cfabe12605092708021ff4af82@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509271557020265887a2f2b@msapiro>

Alias wrote:
>
>Recently lots of people have started to try spamming my mailing lists - this
>is not such a problem as because they're non-members the posts get held for
>moderation - however, it's distinctly annoying that I have to keep deleting
>them, and also getting mail alerts for them. Could anyone direct me towards
>the configuration screen that manages moderation options?

->Privacy options...->Sender filters->generic_nonmember_action

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Sep 28 01:27:27 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:27:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Tailor List specific RFC mail headers?
In-Reply-To: <4339635A.7080409@magnet.fsu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509271627270000887a2e3b@msapiro>

Tom Combs wrote:
>
> I would like to remove the List-Subscribe and List-Unsubscribe for some
>announcement only type lists where the memebers cannot subscribe or
>unsubscribe. Is there a way to customize this behavior for individual lists?


I think it's a really bad idea to not allow people to unsubscribe
and/or to not tell them how, but I realize a university environment
might call for this in some cases. In any case, the only list specific
controls are those on the list's General Options page. These are
available only if ALLOW_RFC2369_OVERRIDES is not set to no in
mm_cfg.py.

Any finer level of control would have to be put into
Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py (plus other modules to support the
switches to control it).

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Sep 28 01:51:01 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:51:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List all members?
In-Reply-To: <20050927175916.GB11233@hank.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509271651010890887a319b@msapiro>

Bill Moseley wrote:
>
>How do I display all members on the same page?  Or maybe 20 at a time?
>I've got a bunch of small lists that are less than 50 members.

See for example
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-June/045020.html

Also see
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=782436&group_id=103&atid=350103

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Sep 28 02:28:32 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:28:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hidden Members
In-Reply-To: <s338913a.066@GW00.genesco.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509271728320843887a318b@msapiro>

Jim Poteet wrote:

>I have a list that is used for announcement-only type postings and which is infrequently used. I'm getting post-confirmation requests for a couple of members that I can't find in the membership list. I'm assuming these are members who opted to be hidden.


"Hidden" members are only hidden on the 'roster' page and on the e-mail
'who' response. They are not hidden on the admin Membership
Management...->Membership List.


<snip>
>The other post confirmation is from AOL saying that the member doesn't have a post office box, so apparently he'll stay in the member list until bounce processing stops delivery (but he'll still be in the list, right?).


I'm not sure what you're saying here, but I'm guessing that you're
saying that AOL is bouncing posts back to the list rather than the
list-bounces address. If this is the case, he will never have delivery
disabled because bounces are not being properly returned.

If bounce processing were working for this user, he would eventually be
unsubscribed (assuming the 'disabled' cron is being run). Once a
member is disabled, a "Your Membership Is Disabled" notice is sent to
the member every bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval days. If
the member still has not visited his/her options page to reenable
delivery after bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings are sent, the member
is unsubscribed.


>Is there any way I can get rid of these hidden members from within the browser admin panels.


As I said above, they aren't hidden from the admin Membership List. If
they aren't in this list, either they really aren't list members or
the subscribed address is forwarding posts to another address (i.e.
the AOL address).

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Sep 28 02:38:43 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:38:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman archive doesn't word wrap
In-Reply-To: <s3392aac.033@GW00.genesco.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509271738430609887a30ac@msapiro>

Jim Poteet wrote:

>I'm having a problem with my archive not doing line wrapping, ie, each paragraph in a message shows as an infinitely long line that requires horizontal scrolling to read. The following message was posted on this list a couple of years ago, but the thread ended and I didn't see any further comment. Does anyone know if this is still applicable?


The two settings mentioned by Tokio are still in the source so I assume
they're still applicable.


>Is it a global change or can it be done list by list?


It is a global change to the source code. Also, I think the archive
will need to be rebuilt (bin/arch --wipe) following the change to make
the change effective for existing posts in the archive.


>Are ISPs generally willing to make such a change?


Some may be, but I think generally not because most are unwilling to
make customizations that have to be remade with every update, even if
they are willing to make mm_cfg.py or template changes.



>>From Tokio Kikuchi tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp
>>Thu Feb 20 21:23:36 EST 2003
>>
>>  * Previous message: [Mailman-Users] Word wrap in archives
>>  * Next message: [Mailman-Users] Another feature request (for >email commands)
>>  * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
>>>
>>Hi,
>>
>>There are constants in Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py
>>class HyperArchive(pipermail.T):
>>
>>    SHOWHTML = 0              # Eg, nuke leading whitespace in html manner.
>>    SHOWBR = 0                # Add <br> onto every line
>>
>>If you chenge both to 1, then you will get long lines wrapped at
>>the end of the browser width.
>>
>>Tokio

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Sep 28 03:17:19 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 18:17:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe from All Lists on Webpage for User
In-Reply-To: <43380150.32195.12B86B@localhost>
Message-ID: <PC17402005092718171908590caab18e@msapiro>

Lloyd F. Tennison wrote:

>I would like to be able to have a main page where a person can remove 
>themselves from all lists on the server with just one command/entry.  I know 
>they can eventually get to the unsubscribe all button, but I want to be able to 
>have an all button like some of the large list services have.


Is there a global 'unsubscribe all' button? If so, I don't know where
it is.


>I have thought of making a master list and having that on the main page - but 
>cannot find an easy way to link to that unsubscribe all button.  I do not see a 
>way that the umbrella can help me here either.


If you view the HTML source of the page that contains the button, you
should be able to replicate the form HTML anywhere you want.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Sep 28 07:03:22 2005
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:03:22 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachements question
In-Reply-To: <p06200713bf5f4add2b27@[10.0.1.210]> (Brad Knowles's message of
	"Tue, 27 Sep 2005 21:17:37 +0200")
References: <01ff01c5c38d$eff5b6f0$6401a8c0@sarna>
	<p06200713bf5f4add2b27@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <873bnp942t.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Brad" == Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> writes:

    >> Im assuming they self delete after a while because clicking on
    >> one of the link now indicates its not there."

    Brad> 	That implies that something else is going on.  There
    Brad> is no standard cron job that I know of to clean out the old
    Brad> attachments.

If somebody cleaned out spam or private information, and regenerated
the archives, that might change the order, and the link would break.
I know this happens with MHonArc (since the URLs it generates are
simply the serial number of processing concatenated with a prefix and
.html).  I don't know about pipermail but I wouldn't be surprised.

Why archivers don't use Message-Id for the URL, I don't know.


-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From lists at viplist.us  Wed Sep 28 07:48:37 2005
From: lists at viplist.us (Lloyd F. Tennison)
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 22:48:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe from All Lists on Webpage for User
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005092718171908590caab18e@msapiro>
References: <43380150.32195.12B86B@localhost>
Message-ID: <4339CC45.22065.9B8E53@localhost>

That sends a confirmation for each list - which is NOT what I want. That falls 
under the heading of major pain for mailing list subscriber.


Date sent:      	Tue, 27 Sep 2005 18:17:19 -0700
From:           	Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
To:             	lloyd at viplist.us, mailman-users at python.org
Organization:   	Not Very Much
Subject:        	Re: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribe from All Lists on Webpage for User

> Lloyd F. Tennison wrote:
> 
> >I would like to be able to have a main page where a person can remove 
> >themselves from all lists on the server with just one command/entry.  I know 
> >they can eventually get to the unsubscribe all button, but I want to be able to 
> >have an all button like some of the large list services have.
> 
> 
> Is there a global 'unsubscribe all' button? If so, I don't know where
> it is.
> 
> 
> >I have thought of making a master list and having that on the main page - but 
> >cannot find an easy way to link to that unsubscribe all button.  I do not see a 
> >way that the umbrella can help me here either.
> 
> 
> If you view the HTML source of the page that contains the button, you
> should be able to replicate the form HTML anywhere you want.
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lists%40viplist.us
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> 




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Sep 28 10:30:15 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:30:15 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachements question
In-Reply-To: <873bnp942t.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <01ff01c5c38d$eff5b6f0$6401a8c0@sarna>
	<p06200713bf5f4add2b27@[10.0.1.210]>
	<873bnp942t.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06200718bf600465a725@[10.0.1.210]>

At 2:03 PM +0900 2005-09-28, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>  Why archivers don't use Message-Id for the URL, I don't know.

	Because some MUAs generate message-ids that are likely to 
collide.  For some time now, I've been arguing that they should use a 
hash of the relevant information (maybe all the headers, maybe just 
selected headers, maybe the entire message, whatever is reasonable to 
assume will survive), making sure to at least include the value of 
the "Date:", "Message-ID:", and "Received:" headers as part of that 
input.

	That hash would not change no matter how many times the archives 
are updated, and all published links could remain valid unless that 
particular message itself was deleted from the archives.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From Lists at elite4god.com  Wed Sep 28 15:13:28 2005
From: Lists at elite4god.com (Jeremy Leonard)
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:13:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the from header
Message-ID: <433A96F8.9070306@elite4god.com>

We just changed from Majordomo to Mailman.

We use listserv for email announcements to members.

We need to be able to send messages from specific users.

We used to change the from header when we accepted messages in moderated 
lists.

Is there a way to do this with Mailman?

Scenario:

Joe the CEO wants a message to go to all the members of our 
organization. His secretary creates the message and sends it to the 
list. She is also the moderator of the list. In Majordomo she would 
reply to the moderate email with the moderator password in the header 
and change the From: header to the Joe CEO of company.

Is there a way to do a similar thing with Mailman?

Setting the from address to the Listserv name isn't an option.

Thanks,
Jeremy


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Sep 28 15:23:25 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:23:25 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the from header
In-Reply-To: <433A96F8.9070306@elite4god.com>
References: <433A96F8.9070306@elite4god.com>
Message-ID: <p0620071ebf604908bd91@[10.0.1.210]>

At 9:13 AM -0400 2005-09-28, Jeremy Leonard wrote:

>  Joe the CEO wants a message to go to all the members of our
>  organization. His secretary creates the message and sends it to the
>  list. She is also the moderator of the list. In Majordomo she would
>  reply to the moderate email with the moderator password in the header
>  and change the From: header to the Joe CEO of company.
>
>  Is there a way to do a similar thing with Mailman?

	Nope.  At least, not without making source code modifications to Mailman.

	This kind of thing falls under the general mail-merge/customer 
relationship management system stuff that is covered in 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.018.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From chris at westnet.com  Wed Sep 28 15:30:27 2005
From: chris at westnet.com (Christopher X. Candreva)
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:30:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the from header
In-Reply-To: <p0620071ebf604908bd91@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <433A96F8.9070306@elite4god.com>
	<p0620071ebf604908bd91@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.62.0509280927390.19013@westnet.com>

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005, Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 9:13 AM -0400 2005-09-28, Jeremy Leonard wrote:
> 
> >  Joe the CEO wants a message to go to all the members of our
> >  organization. His secretary creates the message and sends it to the
> >  list. She is also the moderator of the list. In Majordomo she would
> >  reply to the moderate email with the moderator password in the header
> >  and change the From: header to the Joe CEO of company.
> >
> >  Is there a way to do a similar thing with Mailman?

> 	Nope.  At least, not without making source code modifications to 
> Mailman.

Wouldn't the obvious answer be to configure her mail program to send mail as 
the CEO in the first place ? This would work for not only MailMan, but any 
mailing list program, and in fact mail to individuals as well. :-)


==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/


From jwblist at olympus.net  Wed Sep 28 17:50:47 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:50:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachements question
In-Reply-To: <p06200718bf600465a725@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <BF6009E7.834C%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 9/28/05 1:30 AM, "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote:

>>  Why archivers don't use Message-Id for the URL, I don't know.
> 
> Because some MUAs generate message-ids that are likely to
> collide.

In addition, the Message-Id values would have to be filtered, if used as is,
for URL-unfriendly characters (eg, Outlook Express tosses in a couple of $
characters).  Just another example of not trusting input from untrusted
sources.

The hash of Message-Id:, Date:, and Received: (all of the Received: headers)
would do, except for the case of an insane MTA--the one generating the "top"
Received: header--feeding the same message into Mailman multiple times.
Perhaps a representation of the computer's clock would help there.

There's also the small point that the presence of Message-Id: is a SHOULD,
not a MUST (some compromise in the musty past of the IETF, no doubt).

  --John




From mdunston at music.vt.edu  Wed Sep 28 20:57:31 2005
From: mdunston at music.vt.edu (michael dunston)
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:57:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] looking for information regarding the private
	archive session cookies
Message-ID: <r02010500-1042-B941AF65305111DA8A2B00112475E44C@[192.168.0.6]>

Can someone tell me where (in Mailman) the private archive session cookies are being set, or where I might find more information about the use of cookies for enforcing private archive access?  I am trying to add this level of protection to a swish-e search CGI.  Thanks in advance for any information or direction on where to look.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Sep 28 21:08:59 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 21:08:59 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachements question
In-Reply-To: <BF6009E7.834C%jwblist@olympus.net>
References: <BF6009E7.834C%jwblist@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <p06200720bf609a4fca3e@[10.0.1.210]>

At 8:50 AM -0700 2005-09-28, John W. Baxter wrote:

>  The hash of Message-Id:, Date:, and Received: (all of the Received: headers)
>  would do, except for the case of an insane MTA--the one generating the "top"
>  Received: header--feeding the same message into Mailman multiple times.
>  Perhaps a representation of the computer's clock would help there.

	The top "Received:" header is added by the Mailman mailing list 
server MTA itself, and that should include the local date/time stamp 
as of the time of receipt of the message.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From gleslie at rcfp.org  Thu Sep 29 01:45:38 2005
From: gleslie at rcfp.org (Gregg Leslie)
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:45:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Host name problem
Message-ID: <001901c5c486$babcbc00$9300000a@LEGALDIR>

I've recently set up mailman under SuSE Linux 9.3. When I was testing the
new machine, I had its host name set to "linux.reporterscommittee.org". Now
that it's ready (more or less) for prime time, I've changed the host name to
www.reporterscommittee.org. But all the lists still want to use the linux
address instead of the new "www" one.

When I log in to admin pages, for instance, I get redirected to the linux
address, and the page heading says "linux.reporterscommittee.org Mailing
Lists".
And all the list information sent to subscribers includes the linux address.

I've confirmed that the word linux does not appear anywhere in the mm_cfg.py
file or the sysconfig/mailman file, and it doesn't seem to be a problem with
postfix (and all the other servers running), which works fine under the
renamed setup.

Am I missing something obvious? Or do I have to kill all the lists and start
over?

Gregg 



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Sep 29 03:41:24 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:41:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 3 questions
In-Reply-To: <099a01c5c2ce$a4a670f0$acef1ad4@speleoy9dy3jmh>
Message-ID: <PC174020050928184124064008c1b0b8@msapiro>

Victor Komarov wrote:
>
>I would like to do better working my Mailman 2.1.4 list.
>
>1. Is it possible to save messages with attachment in archives?


Normally, messages are processed by the 'scrubber' which saves
attachments in separate files and replaces them in the archives with
links to the files. Is this not happening in your case?


>2. My list is russian speaking. 
>So, archive page
>http://schooner.coastlandtech.com/pipermail/speleo-info
>is in KOI-8R Character Coding. 
>But each times they appear in brouser in ISO-8859-1 and user must handly to change in brouser encoding to KOI-8R.
>
>Do you know the way to solve this problem?


This appears to be a problem with your web server configuration. The
archive index page contains the tag

  <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=koi8-r">

but browsers don't appear to honor it. I think this is because the web
server is providing its own

 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1

header which is overriding it.


>3. When I try to get the help file, I can't to get it by email...
>Come back message like this, without help file. 
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Victor Komarov" <....>
>To: <speleo-info-request at speleoinfo.org>
>Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 2:33 AM
>Subject: help
>
>Do you know the way to solve this problem?


The response from the help command comes back as a multipart/mixed
message with a text/plain part containing the actual help text and a
message/rfc822 part containing the original mail to the -request
address.

I sent a message to <speleo-info-request at speleoinfo.org> with subject
help and no message body and I got back two replies. One reply was
from speleo-info-bounces at speleoinfo.org with subject (in english)
"Auto-response for your message to the "Speleo-info" mailing list" and
no message body.

The other reply was also from speleo-info-bounces at speleoinfo.org and
had subject "????????? ????????? ????? ??????" which I guess is the
russian translation of "The results of your email commands". This
message was multipart/mixed. The first subpart was

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

and was the help text - mostly in russian, but with the text for
confirm, password and who in english.

The second subpart was

Content-Type: message/rfc822

and was a copy of my original message.

If all you are seeing in the response is your original message, this
appears to be a problem with your MUA (e-mail client).


--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Sep 29 04:03:08 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:03:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Host name problem
In-Reply-To: <001901c5c486$babcbc00$9300000a@LEGALDIR>
Message-ID: <PC174020050928190308082808c1b164@msapiro>

Gregg Leslie wrote:

>I've changed the host name to
>www.reporterscommittee.org. But all the lists still want to use the linux
>address instead of the new "www" one.


See
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
article 4.29 "Existing versus new lists".


--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Sep 29 05:50:50 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 20:50:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customize an Auto-Respond Message
In-Reply-To: <20050926160913.23C5C1E4002@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402005092820505002340b8caf3c@msapiro>

Felipe wrote:

>I've searched the archives but I can't find my solution.
>I want to customize the unsubscribe message which is automatically sent.
>The text now reads:
>You have been unsubscribed. ------------------
>
>What I want is in carets below:
><the name and address> has been unsubscribed.<line break>
>-----------------------------------
>
>I cannot figure out how to get the name and address into the message, nor
>can I get the text to break.  Is this possible?  TIA, felipe.


I'm not sure I understand all of what you want, but the message I think
you are referring to has subject "You have been unsubscribed from the
<listname> mailing list" (in the member's language). This is hard
coded and cannot be changed without changing the code.

The body of the message contains the text from the list's goodbye_msg
attribute (on the General Options page). This text is filled and
wrapped. You can force a paragraph break by inserting an empty line,
and you can prevent filling of a line by beginning the line with white
space.

There is no way to insert the members name or address or any other
variable info without changing code.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Sep 29 07:29:58 2005
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:29:58 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachements question
In-Reply-To: <p06200718bf600465a725@[10.0.1.210]> (Brad Knowles's message of
	"Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:30:15 +0200")
References: <01ff01c5c38d$eff5b6f0$6401a8c0@sarna>
	<p06200713bf5f4add2b27@[10.0.1.210]>
	<873bnp942t.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06200718bf600465a725@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <87ll1g5tm1.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Brad" == Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> writes:

    Brad> At 2:03 PM +0900 2005-09-28, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

    >> Why archivers don't use Message-Id for the URL, I don't know.

    Brad> 	Because some MUAs generate message-ids that are likely
    Brad> to collide.

Can we stop pandering to the broken mailers, please?  Are we not
hackers?  We know how to handle collisions.  Here's the algorithm:

1)  Look for a unique ID in the (X-)List-Archive-Message-ID field.  If
    not found:
    a)  Generate a unique ID according to the usual algorithm as if
        the post were about to be sent from the archive host.
    b)  Add it to the header in the (X-)List-Archive-Message-ID field.

2)  Extract the message ID from the message.  If none, set the program
    variable equal to the ID generated in 1, and (optionally) add it as
    Message-ID to the message's header.

4)  Generate the URL for the archived message based on *Message-ID*.

5)  Check for collision.

6)  If there is a collision, make a directory (could be a file-system
    directory, could be just an HTML file, could be a digest message)
    with the URL generated in 4.  Generate URLs for the colliding
    messages based on Message-ID plus List-Archive-Message-ID, and
    include them in the directory.  Conforming implementations MAY also
    extract MUA information and make nasty comments about the broken
    MUAs, their implementers, and their users to go with the directory.

    If Message-ID == List-Archive-Message-ID, go to 1a.  At this point
    a conforming implementation MAY mail /vmunix to its implementer,
    who obvious snafu'ed.

7) PUT the colliding messages at those URLs.

Rationale:

1.  You could actually derive an URN from this:
    archived-message://list-archive.your.org/MESSAGE-ID.

2.  The URL is unique and will persist across regeneration of the
    archive as long is the message is present.

3.  People who use conformant software implemented competently should
    be given precedence.

4.  Users who don't subscribe to the archiver's client but somehow get
    their hands on a message ID can use Google to find it (and the
    rest of the thread).

5.  People who use software that doesn't conform will suffer.

    Brad> For some time now, I've been arguing that they should use a
    Brad> hash of the relevant information (maybe all the headers,
    Brad> maybe just selected headers, maybe the entire message,
    Brad> whatever is reasonable to assume will survive), making sure
    Brad> to at least include the value of the "Date:", "Message-ID:",
    Brad> and "Received:" headers as part of that input.

This gives 1 and 2, but not 3, 4, and 5.  (No, you can't generate a
Google search item from knowledge of the algorithm because you don't
necessarily have the Received headers.)  Seems like overkill for Step
1 of the algorithm, too.


-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Sep 29 08:05:24 2005
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:05:24 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachements question
In-Reply-To: <BF6009E7.834C%jwblist@olympus.net> (John W. Baxter's message
	of "Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:50:47 -0700")
References: <BF6009E7.834C%jwblist@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <87hdc45ryz.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "John" == John W Baxter <jwblist at olympus.net> writes:

    John> In addition, the Message-Id values would have to be
    John> filtered, if used as is, for URL-unfriendly characters

I don't think so.  AFAIK, that was fixed about 2000 RFCs ago.  When
used as URLs, conforming agents will URL-encode them.  How the archive
chooses to implement identifying a storage location from the decoded
URL is up to it.  The URL-encoded string as filename is an obvious
choice, but database-based archives might just use the raw Message-ID.

BTW, I just realized that Google probably does index Message-IDs
already (as long as the archived message includes that header), so
Googleability is _not_ an advantage of my scheme over the header
digest approach.  The ability to algorithmically construct URNs and
URLs however still is.

    John> There's also the small point that the presence of
    John> Message-Id: is a SHOULD, not a MUST (some compromise in the
    John> musty past of the IETF, no doubt).

I would guess that's for the convenience of folks who use "telnet HOST
25" as their MTA.  Humans are notoriously bad at generating unique
anything.<wink>  Anyway, my algorithm just treats such messages as a
collision with all the others that don't have Message-IDs.


-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Sep 29 17:27:49 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 17:27:49 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachements question
In-Reply-To: <87ll1g5tm1.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <01ff01c5c38d$eff5b6f0$6401a8c0@sarna>
	<p06200713bf5f4add2b27@[10.0.1.210]>
	<873bnp942t.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<p06200718bf600465a725@[10.0.1.210]>
	<87ll1g5tm1.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06200728bf61b7e7ba40@[10.0.1.210]>

At 2:29 PM +0900 2005-09-29, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>      Brad> 	Because some MUAs generate message-ids that are likely
>      Brad> to collide.
>
>  Can we stop pandering to the broken mailers, please?  Are we not
>  hackers?  We know how to handle collisions.

	I don't really care how the algorithm is implemented.  I care 
that it works.  And I care that it is actually done, and checked into 
the source tree.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From sparctacus at gmail.com  Thu Sep 29 18:54:33 2005
From: sparctacus at gmail.com (Bryan Irvine)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:54:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] apache errors
Message-ID: <53d7063005092909542d19eb7@mail.gmail.com>

I've jsut installed mailman, and think I've done everything right so far.

When I try to browse to the mailman site though it doesn't seem to
work properly.  I've found other similar questions in the archive, but
none of those had any resolution.

When I browse to http://10.0.253.82/mailman/

I just get

Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /mailman/ on this server.


Here's my httpd.conf

ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/"

<Directory "/usr/local/lib/mailman/cgi-bin">
   AllowOverride None
   Options None
   Order allow,deny
   Allow from all
</Directory>


Ideas?

--Bryan


From damico.1 at osu.edu  Thu Sep 29 19:55:17 2005
From: damico.1 at osu.edu (Joe Damico)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:55:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] apache errors
In-Reply-To: <53d7063005092909542d19eb7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200509291754.j8THsN9g014462@defang9.net.ohio-state.edu>

Bryan:

I had this problem myself - very recently.  This was on a Solaris
implementation of Mailman.

The values in question are:
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'hostname'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'hostname'

I had appended these values to the file:
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py

That didn't work, so I replaced the hostname with the fully qualified
network name:  'hostname.domain.edu'

That didn't work either.  So, then, I put these values into the file:
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py

And then everything worked correctly!

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+damico.1=osu.edu at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+damico.1=osu.edu at python.org] On Behalf Of
Bryan Irvine
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:55 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] apache errors

I've jsut installed mailman, and think I've done everything right so far.

When I try to browse to the mailman site though it doesn't seem to
work properly.  I've found other similar questions in the archive, but
none of those had any resolution.

When I browse to http://10.0.253.82/mailman/

I just get

Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /mailman/ on this server.


Here's my httpd.conf

ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/"

<Directory "/usr/local/lib/mailman/cgi-bin">
   AllowOverride None
   Options None
   Order allow,deny
   Allow from all
</Directory>


Ideas?

--Bryan
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/damico.1%40osu.edu

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Sep 29 20:09:04 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:09:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] other thoughts about email commands
In-Reply-To: <432F0C00.6000905@state.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC17402005092911090409370685b1cd@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:
>
>However, I have another question about issuing email commands for 
>subscribing. In the web interface, I can add information along with the 
>email address, by using the syntax "Joe Blow"<joe.blow at anywhere.com>. If 
>I issue this by email, Mailman chokes on it. Here is an example.
>
>subscribe password address="Joe Blow"<joe.blow at anywhere.com>.
>
>Mailman seems confused by brackets and quotes. Any ideas how to do this 
>via email?

The e-mail subscribe command does not support real names in this way.
The way to do an e-mail subscribe with real name is to omit the
address= argument and place "Joe Blow"<joe.blow at anywhere.com> in the
From: header of the e-mail.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sparctacus at gmail.com  Thu Sep 29 20:21:35 2005
From: sparctacus at gmail.com (Bryan Irvine)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:21:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] apache errors
In-Reply-To: <200509291754.j8THsN9g014462@defang9.net.ohio-state.edu>
References: <53d7063005092909542d19eb7@mail.gmail.com>
	<200509291754.j8THsN9g014462@defang9.net.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <53d7063005092911212c862c60@mail.gmail.com>

> I had this problem myself - very recently.  This was on a Solaris
> implementation of Mailman.

I'm on OpenBSD

> The values in question are:
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'hostname'
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'hostname'
>
> I had appended these values to the file:
> /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
>
> That didn't work, so I replaced the hostname with the fully qualified
> network name:  'hostname.domain.edu'
>
> That didn't work either.  So, then, I put these values into the file:
> /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py
>
> And then everything worked correctly!


This didn't do it either... :-/

--Bryan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Sep 29 20:23:00 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:23:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] printing a manual
In-Reply-To: <PHEKJLKKDLGCAEJLJPHMOEHIDEAA.douglas@gpc.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402005092911230007340685b0fe@msapiro>

Douglas B. Jones wrote:
>
>I am trying to print:
>
>http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install.pdf
>
>Regardless on which computer (W2K or XP), I get:
>
>'The document could not be printed'

Works for me using the 'print' button in Adobe Reader 7.0.3.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jdennis at redhat.com  Thu Sep 29 20:23:10 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:23:10 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] apache errors
In-Reply-To: <200509291754.j8THsN9g014462@defang9.net.ohio-state.edu>
References: <200509291754.j8THsN9g014462@defang9.net.ohio-state.edu>
Message-ID: <1128018190.19111.279.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Thu, 2005-09-29 at 13:55 -0400, Joe Damico wrote:
> Bryan:
> 
> I had this problem myself - very recently.  This was on a Solaris
> implementation of Mailman.
> 
> The values in question are:
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'hostname'
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'hostname'
> 
> I had appended these values to the file:
> /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
> 
> That didn't work, so I replaced the hostname with the fully qualified
> network name:  'hostname.domain.edu'
> 
> That didn't work either.  So, then, I put these values into the file:
> /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py
> 
> And then everything worked correctly!

Something is not right then. One should never edit Defaults.py.
mm_cfg.py includes the contents of Defaults.py via this line:

from Defaults import *

Then in mm_cfg.py one overrides any settings previously imported from
Defaults.

In addition, the HTTP Error 403 - Forbidden, is not generated by invalid
host names or URL's. This error says the URL was located but the client
does not have permission to access it, this is a http server
configuration issue, not a mailman configuration issue.

I suspect the problem is the http configuration for the directory that
was originally posted omitted the "Options ExecCGI" which is required to
tell the http server it is permissible to execute cgi scripts in this
directory.

Here is what I use, adjust the path to your installation:

ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
<Directory /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/>
    AllowOverride None
    Options ExecCGI
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>


-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From jdennis at redhat.com  Thu Sep 29 20:27:44 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:27:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] apache errors
In-Reply-To: <1128018190.19111.279.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <200509291754.j8THsN9g014462@defang9.net.ohio-state.edu>
	<1128018190.19111.279.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1128018464.19111.281.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Thu, 2005-09-29 at 14:23 -0400, John Dennis wrote:
> I suspect the problem is the http configuration for the directory that
> was originally posted omitted the "Options ExecCGI" which is required to
> tell the http server it is permissible to execute cgi scripts in this
> directory.

Oh, almost forgot, but any changes to httpd configuration require the
httpd server to be restarted in order for it to see the change.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From sparctacus at gmail.com  Thu Sep 29 20:32:08 2005
From: sparctacus at gmail.com (Bryan Irvine)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:32:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] apache errors
In-Reply-To: <1128018190.19111.279.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <200509291754.j8THsN9g014462@defang9.net.ohio-state.edu>
	<1128018190.19111.279.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <53d7063005092911321f6189e@mail.gmail.com>

> Here is what I use, adjust the path to your installation:
>
> ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
> <Directory /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/>
>     AllowOverride None
>     Options ExecCGI
>     Order allow,deny
>     Allow from all
> </Directory>

Here's how it reads now after editing that file (and restarting apache).

ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/"
<Directory "/usr/local/lib/mailman/cgi-bin">
   AllowOverride None
   Options ExecCGI
   Order allow,deny
   Allow from all
</Directory>


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Sep 29 20:32:54 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:32:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] questions on posting an e-mail
In-Reply-To: <34b425c50509201341467dc384@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005092911325409680caab21e@msapiro>

Soo-Hyun Choi wrote:
>
>The question here is:
>Is it possible that the mailman machine is sitting in a University's
>Computer Science Department such that the mailman machine is
>deliberately blocked by any incoming e-mail?


There are lots of possibilities. See
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Article 3.14

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Sep 29 20:46:00 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:46:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to create new mail list
In-Reply-To: <5b1c0dc505092016275e0e7769@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020050929114600095313a30b79@msapiro>

Elvis Fernandes wrote:

> I am setting up a brand new mailman server.
>After doing per the documentation, I tried creating a "testing" test mail
>list.
>However, I get an error that says "illegal list name: testing at myhost
> Any idea's on what I am missing?

It looks like you have an invalid or missing DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST in
mm_cfg.py.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Sep 29 21:21:25 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 12:21:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscription via -request
In-Reply-To: <4331D761.7090702@uleth.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509291221250375a8b62fb0@msapiro>

Jim Savoy wrote:
>
>      I was wondering if there is a way to silently subscribe people to a
>list via the -request command processor (ie sending email commands to
>listname-request)?
>
>   If I send the command:
>
>    subscribe password nodigest address=janedoe at hotmail.com
>
>it works fine, but janedoe at hotmail.com is then sent a message asking 
>that she
>confirm the subscription by clicking a link. Our users are confused 
>enough as it
>is, and we would like to avoid this step.


If you put "ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE = Yes" in mm_cfg.py, you can then set
the list to allow subscribe without confirmation.


>I realize that the 
>confirmation step was
>created to prevent any old yahoo from subscribing people to lists 
>without their
>consent, but how would any old yahoo know what the list password is? 


The password argument is not the list password. It is the initial user
password for this subscription.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Sep 29 22:04:52 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:04:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd:  Small reply address problem
In-Reply-To: <f9a83c8e05092609061e032f4f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509291304520265a8b62f5d@msapiro>

paul collen wrote:
>
>Yep, works fine in any client apart from Outlook!! ;o)
>
>Does anybody know how to manually edit the Sender address mailman uses?

If you do this (by modifying code), you'll break automated bounce
processing.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Sep 29 22:19:02 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:19:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ?? restore only 1 list in backup ".tar"
In-Reply-To: <E0AC4ADF8F1B8C4A9EC7BCA300C336420742661C@fgvrj41.fgv.br>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509291319020328a8b62f6a@msapiro>

Alysson Dias wrote:
>
>How I restore backup (file mailman.tar of complete /home/mailman) of
>only 1 list in the server?

restore the /home/mailman/lists/<listname> directory and maybe the
/home/mailman/archives/private/<listname> and
/home/mailman/archives/private/<listname>.mbox directories.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Thu Sep 29 22:36:43 2005
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 05:36:43 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] apache errors
In-Reply-To: <53d7063005092909542d19eb7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <53d7063005092909542d19eb7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <433C505B.80109@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi,

You have to accesss http://10.0.253.82/mailman/listinfo.

Without the script name in the end of URI, Apache returns error because 
you set "Options None."  "Options ExecCGI" should not be used here for 
ScriptAliases is already specified.  "Options Indexes" is the 
configuration for directory view but it is not recommended for security 
reason.

http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/core.html#options


Bryan Irvine wrote:

> I've jsut installed mailman, and think I've done everything right so far.
> 
> When I try to browse to the mailman site though it doesn't seem to
> work properly.  I've found other similar questions in the archive, but
> none of those had any resolution.
> 
> When I browse to http://10.0.253.82/mailman/
> 
> I just get
> 
> Forbidden
> You don't have permission to access /mailman/ on this server.
> 
> 
> Here's my httpd.conf
> 
> ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/"
> 
> <Directory "/usr/local/lib/mailman/cgi-bin">
>    AllowOverride None
>    Options None
>    Order allow,deny
>    Allow from all
> </Directory>
> 
> 
> Ideas?
> 
> --Bryan

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Sep 29 22:48:48 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:48:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce_info_stale_after
In-Reply-To: <20050926150756.GB27934@hank.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509291348480421a8b62ff5@msapiro>

Bill Moseley wrote:

>Two questions about bounce processing in 2.1.5.
>
>First question:
>
>The bounce_info_stale_after is regardless of list traffic?  I.e. is
>the bounce information discarded after bounce_info_stale_after days
>regardless if there's been any outgoing mail?


Yes, but only the most recent prior bounce is considered. I.e., if a
user has some prior bounces and the most recent is less than
bounce_info_stale_after days old, all are kept.


>For example, if you have a list where a message goes out just once
>every week, but you have bounce_info_stale_after less than a week then
>will a bouncing address *ever* get disabled?


Not in this case. You need to insure that bounce_info_stale_after is
more than a week in this case.


>Second questions:
>
>After bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval is finished is the
>address really "removed" as the docs say, or just set to "nomail"?
>I assume it really means "removed".


It's really removed. When the score reaches bounce_score_threshold,
delivery is disabled for 'bounce'. If delivery is not subsequently
enabled by the user or admin, the user will be removed from the list
after bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings times
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval days as long as the disabled
cron is being run. This does not depend on the warnings themselves
bouncing. It only depends on delivery remaining disabled.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sparctacus at gmail.com  Thu Sep 29 23:00:14 2005
From: sparctacus at gmail.com (Bryan Irvine)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:00:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [resolved] Re:  apache errors
In-Reply-To: <433C505B.80109@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <53d7063005092909542d19eb7@mail.gmail.com>
	<433C505B.80109@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <53d7063005092914009d17e8c@mail.gmail.com>

I had done several test installs, with real, and fake users (installed
via OpenBSD ports), and when I'd remove an install, I'd manually
remove /usr/local/lib/mailman, but never noticed /var/spool/mailman,
which although reported it was owned by _mailman, it actually wasn't
because the uid number (1001 or some such thing) was different than
the current _mailman user (1006 or something).

So in essence, *I* broke it. :-)

It works now.  ezmlm you are history! ;)

--Bryan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Sep 29 23:00:50 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:00:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private archive for list
In-Reply-To: <1127759681.6722.33.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509291400500187a8b62f0d@msapiro>

Darren G Pifer wrote:
>
>On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 12:33, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Is there a global mailbox file at
>> archives/private/telephone_logs.mbox/telephone_logs.mbox or just the
>> archives/private/telephone_logs.mbox/ directory without the file?
>
>There is an archives/private/telephone_logs.mbox file but no
>archives/private/telephone_logs.mbox directory.


I don't understand. How can the file exist if the directory that
contains it doesn't exist? Or are you saying that
archives/private/telephone_logs.mbox is a file, not a directory? If
so, what's in it? What do you see from

ls -la archives/private/telephone_logs.mbox


>> If the archives/private/telephone_logs.mbox/telephone_logs.mbox file
>> exists and contains the past posts to the list, then
>> 
>> bin/arch --wipe list-name
>> 
>> should build archives. If the .mbox file is there and the HTML archives
>> are not being created, there is probably a permissions issue.
>
>Do I need to do something to rebuild telephone_logs.mbox? Is it looks
>for a telephone_logs.mbox/telephone_logs.mbox file? The index.html file
>is empty. Shouldn't contain something?


bin/arch --wipe telephone_logs

will look for archives/private/telephone_logs.mbox/telephone_logs.mbox
by default and will fail if it's not found. There is an option to
specify a different file. See bin/arch --help.

If you don't have the global .mbox file containing all the past posts,
then you probably don't have anything to rebuild it from (unless you
have the posts collected somewhere outside of Mailman), and you have
no past archives.

There may be a permissions issue or something similar preventing
archiving. Do you see anything relevant in Mailman's 'error' log?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep 30 01:31:28 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:31:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] umbrella lists and approved senders
In-Reply-To: <20050922190518.GG5787@nature.Berkeley.EDU>
Message-ID: <PC17402005092916312806257ec5672d@msapiro>

Gary Casterline wrote:
>
>We've set up chain of hierarchical lists to accommodate annual groups.
>Each year we create a list for the new cohorts:
>    
>    class-of-2003 at example.tld
>    class-of-2004 at example.tld
>    class-of-2005 at example.tld
>
>and then add the new class-of list to the umbrella list:
>
>    alumni at example.tld
>
>Each list is set to allow postings from subscribers and a
>small set of approved non-subscribed addresses.  I'd like to add
>these approved addresses to the umbrella list and have messages go
>through without owner/moderator approval to the sublists.
>As it is now, we have to add the approved addresses to each sublist.
>
>Any suggestions?


I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to do, but the patch at
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103
may help.

This patch allows you to put '@listname' in list_2's
accept_these_nonmembers field and then all the members of listname are
allowed to post to list_2.

If I understand you correctly, you could do the following:

Create list_x. No one will post to this list. No general users need to
be aware of it. You can set it up per
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp
so it is fully moderated and no one can post.

You then add all your non-member 'approved' addresses to this list.

Then when you create a new class-of-xxxx at example.tld list, you put
@list_x in the accept_these_nonmembers field.

Thus, all the members of list_x will be allowed to post to any of the
class-of-xxxx at example.tld lists, and the special approved posters can
be dynamically maintained just by maintaining the membership of list_x.

This does require installation of the patch, which may or may not be an
issue.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From cwieland at uci.edu  Fri Sep 30 01:42:14 2005
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:42:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman slow
Message-ID: <49E63E8D-0B4A-4D46-9F1C-43350EE4FC13@uci.edu>

Hello,

Running version 2.1.4 it seems that mail is taking longer and longer.  
What used to take a few minutes is now taking an hour or two to get  
thru Mailman. Top indicates the machine is not busy and the mail is  
not in the queue. It seems to be waiting in the mailman process.

Any ideas? I'm stumped at this point.
As always any ideas are appreciated.

Con Wieland
Network and Computing Services
University of California at Irvine


From kalin at el.net  Fri Sep 30 02:21:34 2005
From: kalin at el.net (kalin mintchev)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 20:21:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] doesn't work...
Message-ID: <54757.68.165.89.73.1128039694.squirrel@mail.el.net>


can somebody explain this please?...  thanks....

--------------------------------------------
# ./remove_members  -n -N aaac johnwang at aabdc.com
# ./remove_members -a -n -N aaac
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./remove_members", line 186, in ?
    main()
  File "./remove_members", line 176, in main
    admin_notif, userack)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 990, in
ApprovedDeleteMember
    self.removeMember(emailaddr)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 220, in
removeMember
    self.__assertIsMember(member)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 113, in
__assertIsMember
    raise Errors.NotAMemberError, member
Mailman.Errors.NotAMemberError: johnwang at aabdc.com

-- 






From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep 30 03:04:51 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 18:04:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] looking for information regarding the
	privatearchive session cookies
In-Reply-To: <r02010500-1042-B941AF65305111DA8A2B00112475E44C@[192.168.0.6]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509291804510312352dfc8b@msapiro>

michael dunston wrote:

>Can someone tell me where (in Mailman) the private archive session cookies are being set, or where I might find more information about the use of cookies for enforcing private archive access?  I am trying to add this level of protection to a swish-e search CGI.  Thanks in advance for any information or direction on where to look.


Mailman/SecurityManager.py
--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kalin at el.net  Fri Sep 30 03:19:28 2005
From: kalin at el.net (kalin mintchev)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 21:19:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] doesn't work...
In-Reply-To: <54789.68.165.89.73.1128041854.squirrel@mail.el.net>
References: <54757.68.165.89.73.1128039694.squirrel@mail.el.net>
	<54789.68.165.89.73.1128041854.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <54804.68.165.89.73.1128043168.squirrel@mail.el.net>


and this - executed in the directory of the aaac list:
who cares if s/he is a member - just get it out... why would you need to
assertIsMember?!? doesn't make sense....

[~/aaac]# grep -rl johnwang at aabdc.com *
[~/aaac]# ../../bin/remove_members -a -n -N aaac
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "../../bin/remove_members", line 186, in ?
    main()
  File "../../bin/remove_members", line 176, in main
    admin_notif, userack)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 990, in ApprovedDeleteMember
    self.removeMember(emailaddr)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 220, in
removeMember
    self.__assertIsMember(member)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 113, in
__assertIsMember
    raise Errors.NotAMemberError, member
Mailman.Errors.NotAMemberError: johnwang at aabdc.com




>
>
> or explain this please...   thank you:
>
> # ./add_members -a n -w n -r - aaac
> johnwang at aabdc.com
> Subscribed: johnwang at aabdc.com
> # ./remove_members -a -n -N aaac
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "./remove_members", line 186, in ?
>     main()
>   File "./remove_members", line 176, in main
>     admin_notif, userack)
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 990, in
> ApprovedDeleteMember
>     self.removeMember(emailaddr)
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 220, in
> removeMember
>     self.__assertIsMember(member)
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 113, in
> __assertIsMember
>     raise Errors.NotAMemberError, member
> Mailman.Errors.NotAMemberError: johnwang at aabdc.com
>
>
>
>
>>
>> can somebody explain this please?...  thanks....
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>> # ./remove_members  -n -N aaac johnwang at aabdc.com
>> # ./remove_members -a -n -N aaac
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "./remove_members", line 186, in ?
>>     main()
>>   File "./remove_members", line 176, in main
>>     admin_notif, userack)
>>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 990, in
>> ApprovedDeleteMember
>>     self.removeMember(emailaddr)
>>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 220, in
>> removeMember
>>     self.__assertIsMember(member)
>>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 113, in
>> __assertIsMember
>>     raise Errors.NotAMemberError, member
>> Mailman.Errors.NotAMemberError: johnwang at aabdc.com
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list
>> Mailman-Users at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>> Searchable Archives:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/kalin%40el.net
>>
>> Security Policy:
>> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
>


--




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep 30 03:56:47 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 18:56:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] doesn't work...
In-Reply-To: <54804.68.165.89.73.1128043168.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509291856470562a43e3081@msapiro>

kalin mintchev wrote:
>
>and this - executed in the directory of the aaac list:
>who cares if s/he is a member - just get it out... why would you need to
>assertIsMember?!? doesn't make sense....


Because the method which is used to remove the member is more general
than that.


>
>[~/aaac]# grep -rl johnwang at aabdc.com *
>[~/aaac]# ../../bin/remove_members -a -n -N aaac
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "../../bin/remove_members", line 186, in ?
>    main()
>  File "../../bin/remove_members", line 176, in main
>    admin_notif, userack)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 990, in ApprovedDeleteMember
>    self.removeMember(emailaddr)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 220, in
>removeMember
>    self.__assertIsMember(member)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line 113, in
>__assertIsMember
>    raise Errors.NotAMemberError, member
>Mailman.Errors.NotAMemberError: johnwang at aabdc.com



It appears something is messed up in the lists config.pck or perhaps
there is a transparent character or something similar in the actual
member address.

Try:

bin/withlist aaac
Loading list aaac (unlocked)
The variable `m' is the aaac MailList instance
>>>m.getMembers()

and see what is returned (type control-D to the next >>> prompt)

Or try bin/dumpdb lists/aaac/config.pck and look at the lists

'members':

and

'digest_members':

If possible, do this from a terminal/console that can display
'transparent' characters.

OTOH, since you've already blown off the membership, why not just use
bin/config_list -o to dump the configuration, and remove, recreate the
list, and use bin/config_list -i to reconfigure the list?

Or you can do

bin/withlist -l aaac
Loading list aaac (locked)
The variable `m' is the aaac MailList instance
>>>m.members = {}
>>>m.digest_members = {}
>>>m.language = {}
>>>m.passwords = {}
>>>m.user_options = {}
>>>m.usernames = {}
>>>m.Save()
>>>                  (enter control-D here)



--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kalin at el.net  Fri Sep 30 04:23:13 2005
From: kalin at el.net (kalin mintchev)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 22:23:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] doesn't work...
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200509291856470562a43e3081@msapiro>
References: <54804.68.165.89.73.1128043168.squirrel@mail.el.net>
	<PC1740200509291856470562a43e3081@msapiro>
Message-ID: <54840.68.165.89.73.1128046993.squirrel@mail.el.net>


> Because the method which is used to remove the member is more general
> than that.

aha...  ok.

>
> It appears something is messed up in the lists config.pck or perhaps
> there is a transparent character or something similar in the actual
> member address.

right. but grep didn't find it either... so it's not there.

>
> Try:
>
> bin/withlist aaac
> Loading list aaac (unlocked)
> The variable `m' is the aaac MailList instance
>>>>m.getMembers()

i used that to delete the address a few times. btw - is there a list
somewhere of all the commands that can be used while running withlist?

> and see what is returned (type control-D to the next >>> prompt)
>
> Or try bin/dumpdb lists/aaac/config.pck and look at the lists
>
> 'members':

did that earlier... john is not there

> and
>
> 'digest_members':

there are no digests on this list...

> If possible, do this from a terminal/console that can display
> 'transparent' characters.

right... that was done too...

> OTOH, since you've already blown off the membership, why not just use
> bin/config_list -o to dump the configuration, and remove, recreate the
> list, and use bin/config_list -i to reconfigure the list?

because it's heavily customized and i'm just 'kinda helping' and there was
stuff that needed to be sent 'right away'...  like 'urgent'...

thanks...

>
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


--




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep 30 04:54:00 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 19:54:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] doesn't work...
In-Reply-To: <54840.68.165.89.73.1128046993.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509291954000359036ae5e7@msapiro>



----- Original Message ---------------

Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] doesn't work...
   From: "kalin mintchev" <kalin at el.net>
   Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 22:23:13 -0400 (EDT)
     To: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
     Cc: mailman-users at python.org

>
>> Because the method which is used to remove the member is more general
>> than that.
>
>aha...  ok.
>
>>
>> It appears something is messed up in the lists config.pck or perhaps
>> there is a transparent character or something similar in the actual
>> member address.
>
>right. but grep didn't find it either... so it's not there.
>
>>
>> Try:
>>
>> bin/withlist aaac
>> Loading list aaac (unlocked)
>> The variable `m' is the aaac MailList instance
>>>>>m.getMembers()
>
>i used that to delete the address a few times. btw - is there a list
>somewhere of all the commands that can be used while running withlist?


No list. Some is knowing some python and knowing the names of list
attributes, e.g. from the admin interface. Some is looking at modules
like MailList.py, OldStyleMemberships.py, etc. and seeing what methods
are available or looking at scripts in bin/ and elsewhere and seeing
what they do.

Are you saying that the above returns an empty list?? How can that be?
bin/remove_members -a does this

       if all:
           addresses = mlist.getMembers()

       try:
           for addr in addresses:
               if not mlist.isMember(addr):
                   if not alllists:
                       print _('No such member: %(addr)s')
                   continue
               mlist.ApprovedDeleteMember(addr, 'bin/remove_members',
                                          admin_notif, userack)
               if alllists:
                   print _("User `%(addr)s' removed from list:
%(listname)s.")
           mlist.Save()
       finally:
           mlist.Unlock()


It is failing on the

               mlist.ApprovedDeleteMember(addr, 'bin/remove_members',
                                          admin_notif, userack)

It doesn't get to that unless the address is in the mlist.getMembers()
list and also passes the mlist.isMember(addr) test which means it is
in either the mlist.members list or the mlist.digest_members list.


>> and see what is returned (type control-D to the next >>> prompt)
>>
>> Or try bin/dumpdb lists/aaac/config.pck and look at the lists
>>
>> 'members':
>
>did that earlier... john is not there
>
>> and
>>
>> 'digest_members':
>
>there are no digests on this list...


That doesn't mean there aren't digest_members.
>
>> If possible, do this from a terminal/console that can display
>> 'transparent' characters.
>
>right... that was done too...
>
>> OTOH, since you've already blown off the membership, why not just use
>> bin/config_list -o to dump the configuration, and remove, recreate the
>> list, and use bin/config_list -i to reconfigure the list?
>
>because it's heavily customized


That's the point about dumping the configuration with bin/config_list
and then restoring it later. This preserves all the customization.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep 30 05:22:15 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 20:22:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman slow
In-Reply-To: <49E63E8D-0B4A-4D46-9F1C-43350EE4FC13@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509292022150703fd2b9a0e@msapiro>

Con Wieland wrote:
>
>Running version 2.1.4 it seems that mail is taking longer and longer.  
>What used to take a few minutes is now taking an hour or two to get  
>thru Mailman. Top indicates the machine is not busy and the mail is  
>not in the queue. It seems to be waiting in the mailman process.
>
>Any ideas? I'm stumped at this point.
>As always any ideas are appreciated.


Similar problems have been reported in the past that were apparently
caused by directories (usually in qfiles) at some point growing very
large. This creates a situation where even though the directory
currently has few if any entries, a very large (very sparse) disk
directory must be searched to store new entries.

Try 'ls -l qfiles' and see if any of the directories (most likely
'out', but maybe others) are quite large. If this is the case, you can
stop mailman, move the large directory aside, create a new directory
with the same ownership and permissions and move the contents back and
start mailman.

If you want to do this with qfiles/in, you should probably stop the
incoming MTA while doing it.

You also might look at the size of the locks/ directory.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep 30 07:29:55 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 22:29:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mmdsr -- Mailman Daily Status Reports(Bourne
	shellscript, updated)
In-Reply-To: <p06200704bf58ec4e21cb@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <PC174020050929222955096859b83fdf@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>	I've taken your submission and incorporated that, as well as 
>fixing another bug that was brought to my attention by Adrian Wells. 
>It turns out that there is a minor log file difference between 
>Mailman versions 2.1.5 and 2.1.6, which causes the "smtp" log to be 
>written in a slightly different format.  The code should now handle 
>both styles without problems.

This all looks good. I made a couple of other changes that I meant to
report before now, but never got to it.

I got tired of seeing all the '.' and '..' entries and the 'total'
blocks in the qfiles subdirectory listings so I changed the script as
follows:

@@ -455,7 +457,7 @@
     echo "------------------------------" >> $TMP

     if [ $LINES -le $MAX_LINES ] ; then
-       $CAT $TMPLOG >> $TMP
+       $GREP -v "^[dt]" $TMPLOG >> $TMP
     else
        $HEAD $TMPLOG >> $TMP
        echo "" >> $TMP

to supress the 'total' line and sub-sub-directories although arguably
the total line is interesting to monitor if it grows large.

One could just make the grep

       $GREP -v "^d" $TMPLOG >> $TMP

or maybe just change the preceding

    $LS -la $DIR >> $TMPLOG

to

    $LS -l $DIR >> $TMPLOG

The other thing I changed is due to the fact that the logs are rotated
weekly via logrotate on my installation. This occurs at 04:02 on
Sundays and is beyond my control and caused my report for Sunday to be
missing the 00:00 to 04:02 time period. Even if I did control it, I
think the best I could do would lose a second or two.

Instead, I changed the script as follows to get all the days entries
from both the current and the previous log (if any).

@@ -254,7 +254,8 @@
     $TOUCH $TMPLOG
     echo "Log file: $LOG" >> $TMP
     echo "==============================" >> $TMP
-    $GREP -si "^$DAY [0-9][0-9:]* $YEAR" $LOGDIR/$LOG >> $TMPLOG
+    $GREP -si "^$DAY [0-9][0-9:]* $YEAR" ${LOGDIR}/${LOG}.1
${LOGDIR}/${LOG} \
+        | $SED "s/^[^:]*://" >> $TMPLOG

     if [ -f "$LOGDIR/${LOG}" ] ; then

@@ -324,7 +325,8 @@
     $TOUCH $TMPLOG
     echo "Log file: $LOG" >> $TMP
     echo "==============================" >> $TMP
-    $GREP -si "^$DAY [0-9][0-9:]* $YEAR" $LOGDIR/$LOG >> $TMPLOG
+    $GREP -si "^$DAY [0-9][0-9:]* $YEAR" ${LOGDIR}/${LOG}.1
${LOGDIR}/${LOG} \
+        | $SED "s/^[^:]*://" >> $TMPLOG

     if [ -f "$LOGDIR/${LOG}" ] ; then

Watch for wrapped lines above. Also, note the sed which removes the
leading 'filename:' placed on each line by grep.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kalin at el.net  Fri Sep 30 08:03:04 2005
From: kalin at el.net (kalin mintchev)
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 02:03:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] doesn't work...
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200509291954000359036ae5e7@msapiro>
References: <54840.68.165.89.73.1128046993.squirrel@mail.el.net>   
	<PC1740200509291954000359036ae5e7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <55085.68.165.89.73.1128060184.squirrel@mail.el.net>


> Are you saying that the above returns an empty list?? How can that be?

no, no...  there are all there - about 1600 or so...  but the john guy
isn't there...
i was just mentioning that i used the withlist as one way to delete the
john guy. i was just trying to add that address and delete it a few
different ways hoping that something in the pck file would get fixed...


> It doesn't get to that unless the address is in the mlist.getMembers()
> list and also passes the mlist.isMember(addr) test which means it is
> in either the mlist.members list or the mlist.digest_members list.

that's clear. then if grep isn't finding that particular string and is not
in m.getMembers() via withlist how's getMembers() via remove_members
finding it? where does it come from?
this doesn't really matter but - does getMembers() return all (digest and
not) members?


> That doesn't mean there aren't digest_members.

right. i was unclear. there are no digest_members on this list - they
don't exist..

> That's the point about dumping the configuration with bin/config_list
and > then restoring it later. This preserves all the customization.

ok...  i'll try that...   thanks....


>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers, San
Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


-- 






From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep 30 08:30:15 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 23:30:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] doesn't work...
In-Reply-To: <55085.68.165.89.73.1128060184.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <PC174020050929233015098459b83fc7@msapiro>

kalin mintchev wrote:

>
>> Are you saying that the above returns an empty list?? How can that be?
>
>no, no...  there are all there - about 1600 or so...  but the john guy
>isn't there...

In your original post you said you did

# ./remove_members -a -n -N aaac

That should have removed everyone or at least everyone up to the
failure, but I guess it failed so the updated list wasn't saved.

Have you considered that he maybe has a 'reverse linefeed' or something
like that in his address that causes it to be overwritten by the next
line of output?


>i was just mentioning that i used the withlist as one way to delete the
>john guy. i was just trying to add that address and delete it a few
>different ways hoping that something in the pck file would get fixed...
>
>
>> It doesn't get to that unless the address is in the mlist.getMembers()
>> list and also passes the mlist.isMember(addr) test which means it is
>> in either the mlist.members list or the mlist.digest_members list.
>
>that's clear. then if grep isn't finding that particular string and is not


What are you doing with grep? are you piping output from strings into
grep or just running grep against config.pck directly?

Have you tried looking for just parts of the address? E.g.

strings config.pck | grep john
strings config.pck | grep wang
strings config.pck | grep aabcd
strings config.pck | grep cd\.com
etc.

>in m.getMembers() via withlist how's getMembers() via remove_members
>finding it? where does it come from?

It is the same getMembers() method. It returns the same list whether
you call it in withlist or remove_members calls it. That's why it
seems that the address with something funny in it has to be there.

>this doesn't really matter but - does getMembers() return all (digest and
>not) members?


Yes

>> That doesn't mean there aren't digest_members.
>
>right. i was unclear. there are no digest_members on this list - they
>don't exist..


Just so were on the same page here, just because the list is not
digestable doesn't mean someone could not have been a digest member at
a prior time before the list became non-digestable. That person could
still be a digest member.


>> That's the point about dumping the configuration with bin/config_list
>and > then restoring it later. This preserves all the customization.
>
>ok...  i'll try that...   thanks....


Have you tried bin/list_members? You'll need to do that anyway to
capture your member list.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Sep 30 11:21:27 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 11:21:27 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman slow
In-Reply-To: <49E63E8D-0B4A-4D46-9F1C-43350EE4FC13@uci.edu>
References: <49E63E8D-0B4A-4D46-9F1C-43350EE4FC13@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <p0620072fbf62b3ebcb9e@[10.0.1.210]>

At 4:42 PM -0700 2005-09-29, Con Wieland wrote:

>  Running version 2.1.4 it seems that mail is taking longer and longer.
>  What used to take a few minutes is now taking an hour or two to get
>  thru Mailman. Top indicates the machine is not busy and the mail is
>  not in the queue. It seems to be waiting in the mailman process.

	Go to the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py>.  Search for 
"troubleshooting" and "performance".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk  Fri Sep 30 11:56:55 2005
From: r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk (Richard Barrett)
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 10:56:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Fwd: Small reply address problem
Message-ID: <734e43ecaa9f9c85917a6ec75f2f06c1@openinfo.co.uk>

Read the FAQ Luke (the entry Brad suggested).

See near the bottom of this FAQ page:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp

for a hack to "improve" what Outlook displays in its GUI field by 
modifying the Sender field on the outbound mail from Mailman. The line 
number in Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py is 353 in MM 2.1.6 (near the 
top of the function def bulkdeliver).

Contrary to Mark's assertion, this should not break bounce handling 
because the return address for bounce processing should be taken from 
the SMTP envelope From not from the Sender: header field of the 
message. These two values do not have to be the same.

Mark Sapiro  msapiro at value.net wrote:

paul collen wrote:
 >
 >Yep, works fine in any client apart from Outlook!! ;o)
 >
 >Does anybody know how to manually edit the Sender address mailman uses?

If you do this (by modifying code), you'll break automated bounce
processing.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kalin at el.net  Fri Sep 30 14:28:31 2005
From: kalin at el.net (kalin mintchev)
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 08:28:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] doesn't work...
In-Reply-To: <PC174020050929233015098459b83fc7@msapiro>
References: <55085.68.165.89.73.1128060184.squirrel@mail.el.net>
	<PC174020050929233015098459b83fc7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <62458.24.90.33.115.1128083311.squirrel@mail.el.net>


> strings config.pck | grep wang

this helped. found 'johnwang @aabdc.com'...  took it out with withlist...
isn't mailman supposed to check for stuff like that when mass subscribing?
this was from a mass subscription....

thanks for the help... now things a back to normal...





From trichard at techovations.com  Fri Sep 30 16:43:00 2005
From: trichard at techovations.com (trichard at techovations.com)
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:43:00 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Resetting the Default URL
Message-ID: <58839.199.38.51.133.1128091380.squirrel@mail.techovations.com>

I'm having a problem.  I cannot remember how to reset the default url.  I
initially set it as www.mysite.com and want it to be www.mysite.com:8888.

Thanks
Troy



From jrlamar at owu.edu  Fri Sep 30 17:41:30 2005
From: jrlamar at owu.edu (Jason LaMar)
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 11:41:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribing via e-mail ...
In-Reply-To: <58839.199.38.51.133.1128091380.squirrel@mail.techovations.com>
Message-ID: <BF62D4EA.E3FF%jrlamar@owu.edu>

I just want to confirm that it's possible for a list member to unsubscribe
from a list via e-mail -- with an e-mail reply confirmation, rather than any
sort of password confirmation -- if they send a blank message to
listname-unsubscribe at whatever.com.

Also, what if this message ISN'T blank? Will Mailman disregard and message
body content, assuming this address is correct for the list?



Thanks,

Jason

_________________________

Jason LaMar
Interim Director of Information Services
Libraries and Information Services
Ohio Wesleyan University; Delaware, OH 43015
Tel: 740-368-3131, Fax: 740-368-3272, Web: http://www.owu.edu/




From trichard at techovations.com  Fri Sep 30 17:50:45 2005
From: trichard at techovations.com (trichard at techovations.com)
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 10:50:45 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual host setup
Message-ID: <27095.199.38.51.133.1128095445.squirrel@mail.techovations.com>

I'm having a problem getting my virtual hosts setup.  I have 2 domains
www.a.com and www.b.com.  Here is what I have in my mm_cfg.py file.  I
also have them running on my mail server thus the 8122 is required.

from Defaults import *

add_virtualhost('www.a.com:8122', 'a.com')
add_virtualhost('www.b.com:8122', 'b.com')
ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES = 1

I've created 3 lists the default mailman, test1 (should be for
test1 at a.com), test2(should be for test2 at b.com).

When I got to
   http://www.a.com:8122/mailman/admin/
It shows me the lists for mailman, test2 but not test1

And then when I got to
   http://www.a.com:8122/mailman/admin/
It says there are not published lists.

I'm not sure what the problem is now.  I imagine it is the way I set up my
virtualhosts.

One other thing is that some links on the mailman pages are linking to
www.a.com:8122 and some are linking to www.a.com

Any help would be great.

Thanks
Troy




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep 30 18:25:48 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:25:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] doesn't work...
In-Reply-To: <62458.24.90.33.115.1128083311.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402005093009254804370002fe45@msapiro>

kalin mintchev wrote:
>
>> strings config.pck | grep wang
>
>this helped. found 'johnwang @aabdc.com'...  took it out with withlist...
>isn't mailman supposed to check for stuff like that when mass subscribing?
>this was from a mass subscription....


Yes, I don't know why it failed in this case. Mass subscribe ultimately
calls MailList.ApprovedAddMember() to actually add the member. This
method in turn calls Utils.ValidateEmail() which raises
Errors.MMBadEmailError if the address containes any spaces. The
exception is caught in the mass subscribe.

I think you are on 2.1.5 based on line numbers in your tracebacks.
2.1.5 Utils.ValidateEmail() would pass e-mail addresses containing
control characters in the range \000-\037 and \177. This is corrected
in 2.1.6. Possibly the original mass subscribe list contained a
control character that later got mapped to a space after the address
was validated.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep 30 18:38:17 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:38:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Resetting the Default URL
In-Reply-To: <58839.199.38.51.133.1128091380.squirrel@mail.techovations.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509300938170312c36d5349@msapiro>

trichard at techovations.com wrote:

>I'm having a problem.  I cannot remember how to reset the default url.  I
>initially set it as www.mysite.com and want it to be www.mysite.com:8888.
>


See the sections "Changing hostnames" and "Existing versus new lists"
in http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep 30 18:48:46 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:48:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribing via e-mail ...
In-Reply-To: <BF62D4EA.E3FF%jrlamar@owu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402005093009484605318fdb6161@msapiro>

Jason LaMar wrote:

>I just want to confirm that it's possible for a list member to unsubscribe
>from a list via e-mail -- with an e-mail reply confirmation, rather than any
>sort of password confirmation -- if they send a blank message to
>listname-unsubscribe at whatever.com.


Yes


>Also, what if this message ISN'T blank? Will Mailman disregard and message
>body content, assuming this address is correct for the list?


Yes

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep 30 19:18:00 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 10:18:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual host setup
In-Reply-To: <27095.199.38.51.133.1128095445.squirrel@mail.techovations.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005093010180008286b9a5c5c@msapiro>

trichard at techovations.com wrote:

>I'm having a problem getting my virtual hosts setup.  I have 2 domains
>www.a.com and www.b.com.  Here is what I have in my mm_cfg.py file.  I
>also have them running on my mail server thus the 8122 is required.
>
>from Defaults import *
>
>add_virtualhost('www.a.com:8122', 'a.com')
>add_virtualhost('www.b.com:8122', 'b.com')
>ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES = 1
>
>I've created 3 lists the default mailman, test1 (should be for
>test1 at a.com), test2(should be for test2 at b.com).
>
>When I got to
>   http://www.a.com:8122/mailman/admin/
>It shows me the lists for mailman, test2 but not test1
>
>And then when I got to
>   http://www.a.com:8122/mailman/admin/
>It says there are not published lists.
>
>I'm not sure what the problem is now.  I imagine it is the way I set up my
>virtualhosts.
>
>One other thing is that some links on the mailman pages are linking to
>www.a.com:8122 and some are linking to www.a.com


FAQ article 4.29 that I pointed to in my reply to your other post
should help with this.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From cwieland at uci.edu  Fri Sep 30 19:51:54 2005
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 10:51:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman slowing down
Message-ID: <0C4F472D-9119-4FE0-A5F6-1DEE7DB6296A@uci.edu>

I posted a message earlier about this and am still investigating.  
Brad was kind enough to point me at the FAQ's on performance and I  
found this section on QRUNNER which is where I think the problem is.
Does anyone know if these settings apply to 2.1.4

I am not able to find them in my current configuration or any  
reference to them.

QRUNNER_LOCK_LIFETIME = hours(10)
  QRUNNER_PROCESS_LIFETIME = minutes(15)
  QRUNNER_MAX_MESSAGES = 300

Con Wieland
Network and Academic Computing Services
University of California at Irvine

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Sep 30 20:38:28 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 11:38:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman slowing down
In-Reply-To: <0C4F472D-9119-4FE0-A5F6-1DEE7DB6296A@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200509301138280046ca292e6a@msapiro>

Con Wieland wrote:

>Does anyone know if these settings apply to 2.1.4
>
>I am not able to find them in my current configuration or any  
>reference to them.
>
>QRUNNER_LOCK_LIFETIME = hours(10)
>  QRUNNER_PROCESS_LIFETIME = minutes(15)
>  QRUNNER_MAX_MESSAGES = 300

As it says at the beginning of that FAQ article (6.6), "This stuff is
likely to be Mailman 2.0 specific".

Those settings don't exist in Mailman 2.1.x - Qrunner processing was
redesigned.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan