From list.mailman at docwhat.gerf.org  Sat Oct  1 20:13:29 2005
From: list.mailman at docwhat.gerf.org (The Doctor What)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 13:13:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman usernames and passwords as apache2
	auth
Message-ID: <20051001181328.GB29093@gerf.org>

I want to provide some extra services for people who sign up for
specific mailman lists.

Is there a way to have apache2 Auth* directives query username and
password from mailman?

I was imagining something like:

<Location /foo>
   AuthType Basic
   AuthName "Some service"
   AuthMailManList FooList
   require valid-user
</Location>

Thanks for your help!

Details:
  Specifically, I wanted to let mailing list subscribers access a
  matching TRAC project.  This way, I don't have to let anonymous
  have write access to everything (I know the search-engine-linking
  idiots and spammers will fill the wiki and such with crap).  But
  at the same time, I can let nearly anyone edit the wiki and I know
  that the user has a valid email address.

  I could just write a "registration" application to send the email,
  verify the result, write it to a DB and all that junk myself, but
  mailman *has* all this code and the database of users is nearly
  the same, if not the same.  So why write duplicate code to
  duplicate the data!

  I have one possible work around which I'm not keen to impliment.
  I could just write a python script to do a "list_lists" and then
  pull out the users and passwords and put them in a database
  compatible with Apache (either a postgresql db or a .htpasswd file
  or something).  That *is* assuming I can pull passwords out of
  mailman, either as plaintext or something I can hash to (like
  md5sum) to put in the apache source.

Ciao!


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct  1 20:33:39 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 11:33:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman usernames and passwords as
	apache2auth
In-Reply-To: <20051001181328.GB29093@gerf.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402005100111333905311a745d3a@msapiro>

The Doctor What wrote:
>
>Is there a way to have apache2 Auth* directives query username and
>password from mailman?
>
>I was imagining something like:
>
><Location /foo>
>   AuthType Basic
>   AuthName "Some service"
>   AuthMailManList FooList
>   require valid-user
></Location>


I doubt it is that simple, but I don't know very much about Apache.

>  but
>  mailman *has* all this code and the database of users is nearly
>  the same, if not the same.  So why write duplicate code to
>  duplicate the data!

The MailList object has an attribute 'passwords' which is a dictionary
with member's e-mail address as key and plain text password as data,
or given any membership database, the MemberAdaptor has a
getMemberPassword(member) method which returns the password for member.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From list.mailman at docwhat.gerf.org  Sat Oct  1 21:17:18 2005
From: list.mailman at docwhat.gerf.org (The Doctor What)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 14:17:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using mailman usernames and passwords as
	apache2auth
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005100111333905311a745d3a@msapiro>
References: <20051001181328.GB29093@gerf.org>
	<PC17402005100111333905311a745d3a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20051001191717.GA1970@gerf.org>

* Mark Sapiro (msapiro at value.net) [051001 13:33]:
> The Doctor What wrote:
> >
> >Is there a way to have apache2 Auth* directives query username and
> >password from mailman?
> >
> >I was imagining something like:
> >
> ><Location /foo>
> >   AuthType Basic
> >   AuthName "Some service"
> >   AuthMailManList FooList
> >   require valid-user
> ></Location>
> 
> 
> I doubt it is that simple, but I don't know very much about Apache.
> 
> >  but
> >  mailman *has* all this code and the database of users is nearly
> >  the same, if not the same.  So why write duplicate code to
> >  duplicate the data!
> 
> The MailList object has an attribute 'passwords' which is a dictionary
> with member's e-mail address as key and plain text password as data,
> or given any membership database, the MemberAdaptor has a
> getMemberPassword(member) method which returns the password for member.

Well, I thought about writing a mod_python plugin to do the security
for me, but the mailman db isn't quite fast enough on my poor server
(it's very old).  So I'm going to try using mod_authpostgresql.

I found the stuff you mentioned, and have it pulling out passwords
for lists.  So, I'm going to write a cron job to insert and update
some tables in postgres, then use them with mod-authpostgresql.  I
can then put an interface onto the DB and allow the listadmin to
turn on and off SVN write access and the TRAC permissions.

Thanks for your help.  If anyone has a better solution, I'd love to
hear it.

Ciao!


From cwieland at uci.edu  Sat Oct  1 21:44:04 2005
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 12:44:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new posts not going through
Message-ID: <CA7F3E4D-E711-41E9-92E7-BC3A24A33B89@uci.edu>

I'm getting these every 3 minutes in the logs/post file and I am  
unable to receive new posts any ideas?


Oct 01 12:27:33 2005 (2883) post to physics-astronomy-seminars from  
physics-astronomy-seminars at uci.edu, size=4208, message-id=<4339B35A. 
6070309 at uci.edu>, 22 failures
Oct 01 12:30:40 2005 (2883) post to physics-astronomy-seminars from  
physics-astronomy-seminars at uci.edu, size=2727, message- 
id=<1127856169.3060.5.camel at localhost.localdomain>, 22 failures
Oct 01 12:33:47 2005 (2883) post to physics-astronomy-seminars from  
physics-astronomy-seminars at uci.edu, size=9452, message- 
id=<016201c5c3ca$b4ee3f90$0a00a8c0 at Dee>, 22 failures
Oct 01 12:36:55 2005 (2883) post to physics-astronomy-seminars from  
physics-astronomy-seminars at uci.edu, size=3393, message- 
id=<p0610051ebf60863b24cb@[128.200.81.33]>, 22 failures
Oct 01 12:40:02 2005 (2883) post to physics-astronomy-seminars from  
physics-astronomy-seminars at uci.edu, size=3106, message- 
id=<p06100520bf6087a07861@[128.200.81.33]>, 22 failures


Con Wieland
Network and Academic Computing Services
University of California at Irivne


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct  1 21:56:15 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 12:56:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new posts not going through
In-Reply-To: <CA7F3E4D-E711-41E9-92E7-BC3A24A33B89@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402005100112561500151a745b1e@msapiro>

Con Wieland wrote:

>I'm getting these every 3 minutes in the logs/post file and I am  
>unable to receive new posts any ideas?
>
>
>Oct 01 12:27:33 2005 (2883) post to physics-astronomy-seminars from  
>physics-astronomy-seminars at uci.edu, size=4208, message-id=<4339B35A. 
>6070309 at uci.edu>, 22 failures
<snip>

What's in logs/smtp and logs/smtp-failure? there may be more info there
on what's occurring.

There is some problem between Mailman and the outgoing MTA. The
specific problem should be logged in 'smtp-failure'.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From cwieland at uci.edu  Sat Oct  1 22:19:31 2005
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 13:19:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new posts not going through
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005100112561500151a745b1e@msapiro>
References: <PC17402005100112561500151a745b1e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <A7142B66-CFD0-499C-BD78-6A86E78B2423@uci.edu>

I should have included this originally. I had a list that the  
subscribers file seems to have become corrupted creating some invalid  
addresses (I have corrected this). As indicated in the log/smtp- 
failure log these messages seem to be "stuck"  on mailman. They are  
not being accepted by my MTA. Any ideas how to clear these from the  
mailman queue?

Oct 01 13:15:13 2005 (3048) delivery to eames at uci.eduvfanelli failed  
with code -1: (131, 'Connection reset by peer')


Con Wieland
Network and Academic Computing Services
University of California at Irvine

On Oct 1, 2005, at 12:56 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Con Wieland wrote:
>
>
>> I'm getting these every 3 minutes in the logs/post file and I am
>> unable to receive new posts any ideas?
>>
>>
>> Oct 01 12:27:33 2005 (2883) post to physics-astronomy-seminars from
>> physics-astronomy-seminars at uci.edu, size=4208, message-id=<4339B35A.
>> 6070309 at uci.edu>, 22 failures
>>
> <snip>
>
> What's in logs/smtp and logs/smtp-failure? there may be more info  
> there
> on what's occurring.
>
> There is some problem between Mailman and the outgoing MTA. The
> specific problem should be logged in 'smtp-failure'.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct  1 22:35:48 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 13:35:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new posts not going through
In-Reply-To: <A7142B66-CFD0-499C-BD78-6A86E78B2423@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510011335480859a428ba8b@msapiro>

Con Wieland wrote:

>I should have included this originally. I had a list that the  
>subscribers file seems to have become corrupted creating some invalid  
>addresses (I have corrected this). As indicated in the log/smtp- 
>failure log these messages seem to be "stuck"  on mailman. They are  
>not being accepted by my MTA. Any ideas how to clear these from the  
>mailman queue?
>
>Oct 01 13:15:13 2005 (3048) delivery to eames at uci.eduvfanelli failed  
>with code -1: (131, 'Connection reset by peer')


I expect they are in the retry queue.

Try

bin/show_qfiles qfiles/retry/*

and/or

bin/dumpdb qfiles/retry/*

to verify which files contain the problem messages and then just remove
the offending files.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Oct  2 00:23:01 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 00:23:01 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mmdsr -- Mailman Daily Status Reports(Bourne
 shellscript, updated)
In-Reply-To: <PC174020050929222955096859b83fdf@msapiro>
References: <PC174020050929222955096859b83fdf@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06200700bf64bac84f38@[10.0.1.210]>

At 10:29 PM -0700 2005-09-29, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  I got tired of seeing all the '.' and '..' entries and the 'total'
>  blocks in the qfiles subdirectory listings so I changed the script as
>  follows:

	I've been thinking about this.  I think that I like seeing those 
entries, as a visual reminder that I really am seeing the complete 
list of files in that directory, and therefore that it really is 
empty.  When it comes to counting the entries in the directory 
listing, I already account for these, but I still like seeing them.

	However, I can see that others might not feel the same way.  If 
you can recommend a patch that would make your preferred behaviour 
optional, I'd incorporate that.

>  The other thing I changed is due to the fact that the logs are rotated
>  weekly via logrotate on my installation. This occurs at 04:02 on
>  Sundays and is beyond my control and caused my report for Sunday to be
>  missing the 00:00 to 04:02 time period. Even if I did control it, I
>  think the best I could do would lose a second or two.
>
>  Instead, I changed the script as follows to get all the days entries
>  from both the current and the previous log (if any).

	Hmm.  I'd like to find a way to virtualize this sort of thing. 
I'll have to give this some thought.

	But definitely a good idea.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From tellme at climbtothestars.org  Sun Oct  2 21:19:57 2005
From: tellme at climbtothestars.org (Tara Star)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 21:19:57 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] encoding problem (french)
Message-ID: <2BB09192-8A4B-4F04-80DA-498C8C16C7A5@climbtothestars.org>

Hi,

I'm using mailman for a french-language mailing-list. You can view  
the list page here:

https://secure.swissblogs.com/mailman/admin/liste/general

Page declares encoding as UTF-8, but it is actually iso-8859-1  
(latin-1). (Using Firefox to enforce the encoding the page is viewed  
in made me reach that conclusion.)

Bug? Known issue? Workaround? Fixes?

Thanks a lot for any help.

Stephanie
--
http://climbtothestars.org/
http://stephanie-booth.com/
http://flickr.com/photos/bunny/


From tellme at climbtothestars.org  Sun Oct  2 21:37:20 2005
From: tellme at climbtothestars.org (Tara Star)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 21:37:20 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] encoding problem (french)
In-Reply-To: <2BB09192-8A4B-4F04-80DA-498C8C16C7A5@climbtothestars.org>
References: <2BB09192-8A4B-4F04-80DA-498C8C16C7A5@climbtothestars.org>
Message-ID: <2E9E6A12-5697-413D-8704-7AF6DA798F9B@climbtothestars.org>

>
> I'm using mailman for a french-language mailing-list. You can view
> the list page here:
>
> https://secure.swissblogs.com/mailman/admin/liste/general
>

Actually, this might work better for you ;-)
https://secure.swissblogs.com/mailman/listinfo/liste

It's even worse -- there seems to be a mixture of correctly and  
incorrectly encoded stuff.

> Page declares encoding as UTF-8, but it is actually iso-8859-1
> (latin-1).

Steph
--
http://climbtothestars.org/


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct  2 23:18:03 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 14:18:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] encoding problem (french)
In-Reply-To: <2E9E6A12-5697-413D-8704-7AF6DA798F9B@climbtothestars.org>
Message-ID: <PC174020051002141803071822d8b0f1@msapiro>

Tara Star wrote:
>
>Actually, this might work better for you ;-)
>https://secure.swissblogs.com/mailman/listinfo/liste
>
>It's even worse -- there seems to be a mixture of correctly and  
>incorrectly encoded stuff.


The 'correctly encoded' stuff is generated as html escapes as in "Pour
voir tous les messages pass&eacute;s de la liste,...". Thus these
characters will render properly regardless of the encoding as long as
it is a superset of 7-bit us-ascii.

The 'incorrectly encoded' stuff is directly encoded as latin-1
cahracters as in "Un courriel vous parviendra vous demandant une
confirmation, cela emp?che que d'autres personnes vous abonnent
impun?ment." This requires the browser's encoding be set to iso-8859-1
and not to utf-8 to render these characters correctly.

The difference here is the stuff with html escapes comes from the
templates/fr/listinfo.html template and the other comes from
translated messages in messages/fr/LC_MESSAGES/

>> Page declares encoding as UTF-8, but it is actually iso-8859-1
>> (latin-1).


The cgi that generates the page emits a 

Content-Type: text/html; charset=value

header which sets the character encoding for the browser. The charset=
value comes from the LC_DESCRIPTIONS dictionary defined by
add_language entries in Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py. The default for French
is iso-8859-1, but I suspect this was changed to utf-8 in your
installation.

I'm not sure what's going on in detail, and I can't actually view the
tcp/ip traffic directly because it's encrypted, but it seems that the
i18n translation does not change the encoding of the messages so that
the character set of the list can't be just changed to utf-8 without
redoing the french message translations.


--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From maddoc at maddoc.net  Sun Oct  2 23:37:34 2005
From: maddoc at maddoc.net (Doc Schneider)
Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2005 16:37:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to??
Message-ID: <4340531E.30306@maddoc.net>

Anyone know how to disable "Your membership has been disabled for 
excessive bounces"

Running MM 2.1.4 with Sendmail 8.13.4

I've searched through the FAQs and nothing in there about this issue.

I realize it is a nice feature but seems running  a newsletter and 
having the bounces come in right away causes this to happen when a users 
mailbox is full then just confuses the heck out of them when they do get 
the disabled message.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

-Doc


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct  2 23:45:41 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 14:45:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to??
In-Reply-To: <4340531E.30306@maddoc.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510021445410750c6aaadf7@msapiro>

Doc Schneider wrote:

>Anyone know how to disable "Your membership has been disabled for 
>excessive bounces"


See the admin interface Bounce processing.

Either turn it off completely or adjust bounce_score_threshold and
bounce_info_stale_after to values more appropriate for your list.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kris.gybels at vub.ac.be  Mon Oct  3 14:19:22 2005
From: kris.gybels at vub.ac.be (Kris Gybels)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 14:19:22 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qfiles?
Message-ID: <91AF4922-83EC-4BE4-A4CC-42008EB720B2@vub.ac.be>

Hi all,

We're having some problems with our mailman-based mailinglists,  
everything worked fine until some time ago, when a problem started  
where mails sent to the lists sometimes get lost. We have no idea yet  
whether this is due to smtp setup problems or something or mailman  
itself. I'm looking into this problem but my knowledge of mailman is  
limited so I have questions, one is: what is the "qfiles" folder for?  
Is it normal for this folder to contain about 10000 .msg and  
10000 .db files? Based on the name I would assume this is the queue  
of unsent messages, and I would expect it to only contain messages  
that still have to be sent, the fact that there are files still in  
there might explain or missing mails option, though it's not like  
10000 messages got lost ... but still, what is qfiles for then and  
does it really need to be so big??



From stefan at bluematrix.co.za  Mon Oct  3 16:25:55 2005
From: stefan at bluematrix.co.za (Stefan Henrico)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 16:25:55 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Formatting
Message-ID: <20051003142551.6D8131E4006@bag.python.org>

Hi guys
 
Does anyone know how mailman formats the emails?
I'm getting the text files down from the server and inserting it into our
local database, but having trouble formatting the text.
 
Can anyone help me? :)
 
Kind Regards,
Stefan Henrico


From ukwebuser at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Oct  3 17:16:53 2005
From: ukwebuser at yahoo.co.uk (David Teall)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 16:16:53 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Will Mailman do what I want?
Message-ID: <43414B65.2030603@yahoo.co.uk>

I am looking for suitable Mailing List software to use on a Sailing Club
website. The features I require are:

? The ability to utilise our on-line database, which includes a User
Name, Password and email address for every member, as the basis for
membership of the List rather than a separate inbuilt database.

? The ability to configure the List so that clicking on ?Reply?
addresses the reply back to the list *and* to the author of the message.

? A web page where members can read current messages and archives.

? The ability to customise which messages members can opt to receive to
include the following options:
? No Messages I will read all messages on the web.
? Level 1 Delivery ?Special Messages? only i.e. messages from the List
Manager(s)
? Level 2 Delivery ?Special Messages? plus new questions from othermembers.
? Level 3 Delivery All messages.

I should be most grateful if someone could let me know which of these
features Mailman provides as it stands and which it might be
possible to provide by suitable mods.

Note: As a Sailing Club we have a special consideration which is behind
many of the requirements listed above. When our members are away
cruising they only have access to email by the use of an expensive
mobile phone link so they need to keep the number of messages down.
Opting for Level 2 Delivery and receiving answers to their own questions
direct would keep the number of messages to a minimum but still them
fully in touch.

DavidT



From johnnyjunk at grahamchurch.org  Mon Oct  3 16:44:27 2005
From: johnnyjunk at grahamchurch.org (Johnny Schlaack)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 10:44:27 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails are being moderated...
In-Reply-To: <mailman.32.1128160806.24817.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <003301c5c828$f5146a10$0700a8c0@JOHNNY>

Greetings,

We've set up a list that primary works as an announcement list instead of a
discussion list.  Almost everyone on the list is setup to be moderated.
Only a handful are not setup to be moderated.  But for some reason emails
will not go to the list unless approved by the list owner of a certain
unmoderated individual.  Now the only thing I can think of that might be
causing a problem is that the email this individual sends out every Friday
is a html newsletter.  The newsletter is like a webpage with tables and
text. (The enewsletter is not an attachment but sent in the body of the
email.)  Would this cause her emails to be moderated to be approved by the
list owner?  Is there a way that her emails can go through without approval?

Thanks for your help,
John  

P.S.  I've attached the newsletter to this email.

From trichard at techovations.com  Mon Oct  3 17:59:31 2005
From: trichard at techovations.com (Troy Richard)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 10:59:31 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] running Mailman on mail server, not web server
Message-ID: <55299.199.38.51.133.1128355171.squirrel@mail.techovations.com>

> Troy Richard wrote:
>>
>>The problem is now that I moved my mailman off the main server the
> address
>>for the test server is now www.abc.com:8112 and not www.abc.com so all
my links on the web page are pointing to www.abc.com and not
>>www.abc.com:8112.
>>
>
> You have to put
>
> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s:8112/mailman/'
>
> in mm_cfg.py and then run fix_url to update the existing lists. fix_url
is a withlist script. Run bin/fix_url.py stand alone for instructions.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers, San
Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
Mark,

I'm having another problem with the above.  I had to rebuild my mailserver
and now I cannot remember how to completely set this up.

I added the DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN to the mm_cfg.py.  And ran the fix_url
script.  The problem I'm having now is some of the url are point to the
wrong url.

Here is what I have in my mm_cfg.py script.

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'nebraskaultimate.com'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.nebraskaultimate.com:8122'
add_virtualhost('www.nebraskaultimate.com:8122', 'nebraskaultimate.com')
add_virtualhost('www.atomicxterra.com:8122', 'atomicxterra.com')
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s:8122/mailman/'
ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES = 1


The problem is when I go to my atomicxterra list it has links to those
lists but it is using the nebraskaultimate.com URL.  I guess I can't
remember if I need to have the DEFAULT vars set.

Any help would be great.

Thanks
Troy





From sasa at stupar.homelinux.net  Mon Oct  3 18:18:07 2005
From: sasa at stupar.homelinux.net (Sasa Stupar)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 18:18:07 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on FreeBSD 5.4 problem
Message-ID: <CBEBACC6F980FA293883552D@[192.168.10.249]>

Hi!

I have installed Mailman 2.1.6 from the ports. I have also Sendmail 8.13.5. 
My problem is that after I have created a list, added new aliases and try 
to subscribe, I get message bounced back saying:
-----
Failure to find group name mailnull.  Try adding this group
to your system, or re-run configure, providing an
existing group name with the command line option --with-mail-gid.
554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 8
-----

But I allready have a group name mailnull.
What is wrong here?

Regards,
Sasa
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From mok at kde.ru  Mon Oct  3 21:10:57 2005
From: mok at kde.ru (Gregory Mokhin)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 15:10:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message shunted
Message-ID: <dhrvp6$bte$1@sea.gmane.org>

Hello,

I've got 2.1.6 installation that has been working perfectly for
several months, but today a message was shunted, and I had to unshunt
it manually.

What can be the reason of the following errors? The last line
(trailing garbage) appears when I run bin/unshunt.

Regards, Gregory


==========================
Oct 03 19:31:14 2005 (19797) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 5]
Input/output error
Oct 03 19:31:15 2005 (19797) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130,
in _dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153,
in _dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 92, in
process
    send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 133, in
send_digests
    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 315, in
send_i18n_digests
    msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 286, in
process
    payload = part.get_payload(decode=True)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 223, in
get_payload
    uu.decode(StringIO(payload+'\n'), sfp)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.4/uu.py", line 139, in decode
    sys.stderr.write("Warning: %s\n" % str(v))
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/MultiLogger.py", line 45,
in write
    _logexc(logger, msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.py", line 22, in _logexc
    sys.__stderr__.write('Logging error: %s\n' % logger)
IOError: [Errno 5] Input/output error

Oct 03 19:31:15 2005 (19797) SHUNTING:
1128356560.2973039+4b942190224bf00c2f961bb06c0f123f9e79c412

Oct 03 21:27:43 2005 qrunner(6065): Warning: Trailing garbage



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Oct  3 21:52:52 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 21:52:52 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qfiles?
In-Reply-To: <91AF4922-83EC-4BE4-A4CC-42008EB720B2@vub.ac.be>
References: <91AF4922-83EC-4BE4-A4CC-42008EB720B2@vub.ac.be>
Message-ID: <p06200710bf673b803da4@[172.16.1.3]>

At 2:19 PM +0200 2005-10-03, Kris Gybels wrote:

>           I'm looking into this problem but my knowledge of mailman is
>  limited so I have questions, one is: what is the "qfiles" folder for?

	That's where Mailman stores messages that it is working on.

>  Is it normal for this folder to contain about 10000 .msg and
>  10000 .db files?

	No.  That's a bad sign.  A very bad sign.

>                    Based on the name I would assume this is the queue
>  of unsent messages, and I would expect it to only contain messages
>  that still have to be sent, the fact that there are files still in
>  there might explain or missing mails option, though it's not like
>  10000 messages got lost ... but still, what is qfiles for then and
>  does it really need to be so big??

	You've clearly got a serious problem with your MTA, and with this 
many files in your qfiles subdirectory, that means you now have a 
problem just listing the directory contents or accessing any one 
particular directory entry.

	You need to flush the queue, and get these messages delivered. 
Or, you need to move them aside, and just live with the fact that you 
had problems in the past, and that there was nothing you could do 
about them.


	But one way or the other, if you want to return to any kind of 
normal operations, you've got to get these queues cleared.

	Moreover, once they are clear, you should stop Mailman, move the 
directories aside and create new ones by the same names (with the 
same ownership and permissions), and restart Mailman.

	The reasons are somewhat complex, having to do with the nature of 
the way that filesystems are implemented on computers.  If you want 
to learn more about this topic, you need to search the Mailman FAQ 
Wizard for "performance", and then follow the links to the 
documentation and books that are recommended.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Oct  3 22:05:11 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 22:05:11 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Will Mailman do what I want?
In-Reply-To: <43414B65.2030603@yahoo.co.uk>
References: <43414B65.2030603@yahoo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <p06200712bf673d7fb535@[172.16.1.3]>

At 4:16 PM +0100 2005-10-03, David Teall wrote:

>  * The ability to utilise our on-line database, which includes a User
>  Name, Password and email address for every member, as the basis for
>  membership of the List rather than a separate inbuilt database.

	You haven't given us much details here.  A great deal depends on 
your particular database.

	In theory, there are unsupported third-party patches to allow 
Mailman to use various back-end database "member adapters", but that 
is beyond the scope of this mailing list or this message.  You will 
need to find member adapters which may be suitable to your 
requirements, and all further questions regarding those should be 
directed towards their developers.

>  * The ability to configure the List so that clicking on 'Reply'
>  addresses the reply back to the list *and* to the author of the message.

	There's absolutely no way you can guarantee this.  Sure, you can 
set headers that tell clients to do whatever you want, but that 
doesn't mean that the client will actually do what you ask.

	It is possible to modify the "Reply-to:" header, but this is 
almost always a really bad idea.  See the Mailman FAQ Wizard for more.

>  * A web page where members can read current messages and archives.

	Mailman does include a web archive function, but does not provide 
a web message board feature.  You can read messages on the web, but 
that's it.

	There are unsupported third-party patches to integrate Mailman 
into web message boards, but you will need to contact their 
respective authors for more information.

>  * The ability to customise which messages members can opt to receive to
>  include the following options:
>  * No Messages I will read all messages on the web.
>  * Level 1 Delivery 'Special Messages' only i.e. messages from the List
>  Manager(s)
>  * Level 2 Delivery 'Special Messages' plus new questions from othermembers.
>  * Level 3 Delivery All messages.

	No.  Mailman does provide a "topic" function, and all messages 
posted to the list which match the topic would be sent to the person 
who subscribed to that topic.  Mailman also provides the ability to 
remain subscribed to the list but not receive any messages, as might 
be typical if you were to go on vacation for a while.

>  I should be most grateful if someone could let me know which of these
>  features Mailman provides as it stands and which it might be
>  possible to provide by suitable mods.

	Pretty much all the answers to your questions should be found on 
the Mailman web site at <http://www.list.org/>.  In particular, you 
should start by looking at <http://www.list.org/features.html>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Oct  3 21:56:15 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 21:56:15 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Formatting
In-Reply-To: <20051003142551.6D8131E4006@bag.python.org>
References: <20051003142551.6D8131E4006@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <p06200711bf673cc188b9@[172.16.1.3]>

At 4:25 PM +0200 2005-10-03, Stefan Henrico wrote:

>  Does anyone know how mailman formats the emails?

	According to the various MIME headers that are on the message. 
These include Content-type, Content-transfer-encoding, etc....

>  I'm getting the text files down from the server and inserting it into our
>  local database, but having trouble formatting the text.

	If you don't fully understand the MIME formatting, you've got a 
very long road ahead of you.

>  Can anyone help me? :)

	You'll need to start by reading all the various RFCs on MIME encoding.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From mengland at mengland.net  Mon Oct  3 18:44:48 2005
From: mengland at mengland.net (Matt England)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 11:44:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to alias /lists/mylist to
	/lists/mailman/listinfo/mylist?
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20051003114116.04ab0dc8@127.0.0.1>

How can I change/add to the RedirectMatch alias structures in my httpd.conf 
file excerpt below such that  a "/lists/mylist" URL path gets redirected to 
"/lists/mailman/listinfo/mylist" while still supporting the "/lists" 
redirect to "/lists/mailman/listinfo"?

I messed around with some grouping ( (.*) --> $1) RedirectMatch lines with 
no success.

Thanks for any help
-Matt


     ##
     ## GNU Mailman stuff as per
     ## http://forum.qmailrocks.org/viewtopic.php?p=3274#3274
     ##

     <Directory /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/>
         Options ExecCGI
         AllowOverride None
         Order allow,deny
         Allow from all
     </Directory>

     <Directory /data/mailman/archives/public/>	
         Options FollowSymLinks
         AllowOverride None
         Order allow,deny
         Allow from all
     </Directory>

     ScriptAlias /lists/mailman   /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin
     Alias       /pipermail       /data/mailman/archives/public

     RedirectMatch 
^/lists[/]*$         https://mydomain.com/lists/mailman/listinfo/
     RedirectMatch ^/lists/mailman[/]*$ 
https://mydomain.com/lists/mailman/listinfo/



From mathieu.malaterre at kitware.com  Mon Oct  3 22:41:56 2005
From: mathieu.malaterre at kitware.com (Mathieu Malaterre)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 16:41:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Illegal list name: mailman@farsight-gentoo
Message-ID: <43419794.4020408@kitware.com>

Hello,

	Seems like this topic comes often in the newgroup, but since I could 
not find an answer to my particular problem, I figure out I could -also- 
send a request about this problem.

	So I am trying to install mailman, I read and followed instructions from:

http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install.pdf

	since I have a running postfix installation (gentoo box), I just modify 
the few main.cf options needed, basically:
owner_request_special = no
and
alias_maps = hash:/etc/mail/aliases,
   hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases

	I did generate the aliases using genalias (under root), and then chmod 
to mailman:

$ ls -al /usr/local/mailman/data
-rw-rw----   1 mailman mailman   357 Oct  3 16:22 aliases
-rw-r-----   1 mailman mailman 49152 Oct  3 16:22 aliases.db

	And finally here is the /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py I am 
using. It is attached to this email.

Does anyone knows what is going on ? Is there a way to make mailman more 
verbose on why this mailing list is 'illegal'.

Thanks a bunch,
Mathieu
Ps:
$ telnet farsight-gentoo 25 

Trying 127.0.0.1...
Connected to farsight-gentoo.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 farsight-gentoo ESMTP Postfix

From jdennis at redhat.com  Mon Oct  3 22:56:11 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 16:56:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to alias /lists/mylist
	to	/lists/mailman/listinfo/mylist?
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20051003114116.04ab0dc8@127.0.0.1>
References: <6.1.2.0.2.20051003114116.04ab0dc8@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <1128372971.8798.71.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Mon, 2005-10-03 at 11:44 -0500, Matt England wrote:
> How can I change/add to the RedirectMatch alias structures in my httpd.conf 
> file excerpt below such that  a "/lists/mylist" URL path gets redirected to 
> "/lists/mailman/listinfo/mylist" while still supporting the "/lists" 
> redirect to "/lists/mailman/listinfo"?

I believe you will need to perform a URL rewrite which special cases the
component "mailman" when following the "lists" component. This type of
functionality is available in the mod_rewrite module.

http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/mod_rewrite.html

Practical examples here:
http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/misc/rewriteguide.html

Be aware that mod_rewrite is not an easy module to master, at a minimum
you will need a solid understanding of regular expressions.

I think what you need to do is craft a rule which first attempts to
match /lists/mailman and if that matches terminate the rule processing
outputting the matched URL, else continue to process and rewrite the URL
to the per list URL.

BTW, rewrite != redirect
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From tellme at climbtothestars.org  Mon Oct  3 23:01:57 2005
From: tellme at climbtothestars.org (Tara Star)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 23:01:57 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] encoding problem (french)
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051002141803071822d8b0f1@msapiro>
References: <PC174020051002141803071822d8b0f1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <899113F5-C497-45C7-9079-7B34D7564E89@climbtothestars.org>


On Oct 2, 2005, at 23:18, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>
> The difference here is the stuff with html escapes comes from the
> templates/fr/listinfo.html template and the other comes from
> translated messages in messages/fr/LC_MESSAGES/

I've taken the mailman.po file in that directory and converted it  
(with iconv) to utf-8. Now all that needs to be done is compile it  
into a .mo and I should be able to have a utf-8 french interface.

Only problem is the .po will not compile. Of course, I tried  
compiling the original .po just to make sure I hadn't messed things  
up with iconv, and it doesn't compile either :-(

error message: mailman.po.old:4325:33: invalid control sequence
mailman.po.old:6507: `msgid' and `msgstr' entries do not both end  
with '\n'
msgfmt: found 2 fatal errors

I've had a look at the file at those lines, but it didn't help me  
much. Does anybody know what the problem is, or could anybody tell me  
where I can lay my hands on a FR .mo which will compile?

Guilty files: http://climbtothestars.org/play/mailman.po.txt  
(original, latin-1)
http://climbtothestars.org/play/mailman.po (converted, utf-8)

Thanks in advance,

Steph aka Tara
--
http://stephanie-booth.com/
http://climbtothestars.org/
http://flickr.com/photos/bunny/



From mclister at zeesource.net  Mon Oct  3 23:54:25 2005
From: mclister at zeesource.net (Claire McLister)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 14:54:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML messages showing an attachment icon in Outlook
	Express
Message-ID: <522edc08f395f862eba5ba1b3fbfdae6@zeesource.net>

Hi,

  When we send an HTML message through Mailman it is showing an 
attachment icon in Outlook Express even though there is no attachment 
in the message. In Mac OS X Mail application there is no attachment 
icon shown. Even in Outlook Express, when you open the message there is 
no attachment shown.

  This issue has been raised on this list a couple of years ago, but I 
did not see any response to those messages. Please let me know if you 
know of a way of handling this problem.

  Thanks

Claire


  --
  Claire McLister ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  mclister at zeesource.net
  1684 Nightingale Avenue ? ??Suite 201
  Sunnyvale, CA 94087? ? ? ?     408-733-2737(fax)

                      http://www.zeesource.net



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Oct  4 00:25:29 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 00:25:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML messages showing an attachment icon in
 Outlook Express
In-Reply-To: <522edc08f395f862eba5ba1b3fbfdae6@zeesource.net>
References: <522edc08f395f862eba5ba1b3fbfdae6@zeesource.net>
Message-ID: <p06200716bf676002cbe4@[172.16.1.3]>

At 2:54 PM -0700 2005-10-03, Claire McLister wrote:

>    When we send an HTML message through Mailman it is showing an
>  attachment icon in Outlook Express even though there is no attachment
>  in the message. In Mac OS X Mail application there is no attachment
>  icon shown. Even in Outlook Express, when you open the message there is
>  no attachment shown.

	Go to the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> and search for "footer".

>    This issue has been raised on this list a couple of years ago, but I
>  did not see any response to those messages. Please let me know if you
>  know of a way of handling this problem.

	Any time you've got a question regarding Mailman, try searching 
the Mailman FAQ Wizard, searching the archives of the mailman-users 
mailing list, etc....  Odds are, whatever your question, someone else 
has already asked it and gotten it answered -- many times over.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct  4 02:26:02 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 17:26:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] encoding problem (french)
In-Reply-To: <899113F5-C497-45C7-9079-7B34D7564E89@climbtothestars.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510031726020859dcc7627d@msapiro>

Tara Star wrote:
>
>On Oct 2, 2005, at 23:18, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>>
>> The difference here is the stuff with html escapes comes from the
>> templates/fr/listinfo.html template and the other comes from
>> translated messages in messages/fr/LC_MESSAGES/
>
>I've taken the mailman.po file in that directory and converted it  
>(with iconv) to utf-8. Now all that needs to be done is compile it  
>into a .mo and I should be able to have a utf-8 french interface.


I don't know if there will be an issue here or not. I don't think so
because the English messages should all be in 7-bit ascii, but you
must not change the English text because it is the key to look up the
French translation.


>Only problem is the .po will not compile. Of course, I tried  
>compiling the original .po just to make sure I hadn't messed things  
>up with iconv, and it doesn't compile either :-(


Are you compiling with Mailman's bin/msgfmt.py or some other msgfmt
implementation. This may be the problem. The original file should
compile OK with bin/msgfmt.py.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct  4 02:50:44 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 17:50:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Illegal list name: mailman@farsight-gentoo
In-Reply-To: <43419794.4020408@kitware.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510031750440578dcc7618e@msapiro>

Mathieu Malaterre wrote:
>
>Does anyone knows what is going on ? Is there a way to make mailman more 
>verbose on why this mailing list is 'illegal'.

The attachments to your post were apparently stripped by content
filtering, but one possibility is that Mailman requires fully
qualified domain names - local names are not acceptable.

If this doesn't answer your question, please post again in plain text
and include in your post the context in which you are told the list
name is illegal.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From doug.penny at gmail.com  Tue Oct  4 03:15:43 2005
From: doug.penny at gmail.com (Doug Penny)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 21:15:43 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Command-Line Interface
Message-ID: <8A936932-9FE3-49B2-8040-992C36E5A9E6@gmail.com>

Hello Everyone,
I'm new to the list, but I've been using mailman for several years.   
We recently moved our mailman server to a new machine and decided not  
to install apache, but instead went with lighttpd.  Needless to say,  
I'm having a difficult time getting the mailman web interface to work  
with it, but the lists are running.  My question is, since I can not  
currently access the web interface, is there a way to approve/reject  
mail being held through the command line?  Thanks for any help.

Sincerely,
Doug Penny


From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Tue Oct  4 03:54:43 2005
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 10:54:43 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] message shunted
In-Reply-To: <dhrvp6$bte$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <dhrvp6$bte$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <4341E0E3.9070708@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi,

There was a warning message from uu.decode module in python library and 
the mailman logger somehow couldn't print it in the log files.  Anyway, 
ToDigest.py in 2.1.6 can stall the regular delivery by uknown errors. 
You may want to update ToDigest.py from the most recent CVS.  Here is a 
excerpt from the CVS log:

Revision 2.22.2.12  - (view) (download) (as text) (annotate) - [select 
for diffs]
Sun Jun 26 05:27:47 2005 UTC (3 months, 1 week ago) by tkikuchi
Branch: Release_2_1-maint
Changes since 2.22.2.11: +14 -3 lines
Diff to previous 2.22.2.11 , to branch point 2.22

Fix SF BugID 1179487:
     Although the RFC2231 bug example in the tracker has been solved in
mailman-2.1.6, there may be more cases where ToDigest.send_digests() can
block regular delivery.  I put the send_digests() calling part in try -
except clause and leave a message in the error log if something happened
in send_digests().  Daily call of cron/senddigests will notify more details
to the site administrator.


Gregory Mokhin wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I've got 2.1.6 installation that has been working perfectly for
> several months, but today a message was shunted, and I had to unshunt
> it manually.
> 
> What can be the reason of the following errors? The last line
> (trailing garbage) appears when I run bin/unshunt.
> 
> Regards, Gregory
> 
> 
> ==========================
> Oct 03 19:31:14 2005 (19797) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 5]
> Input/output error
> Oct 03 19:31:15 2005 (19797) Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
>     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
>     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130,
> in _dispose
>     more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153,
> in _dopipeline
>     sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 92, in
> process
>     send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 133, in
> send_digests
>     send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 315, in
> send_i18n_digests
>     msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 286, in
> process
>     payload = part.get_payload(decode=True)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 223, in
> get_payload
>     uu.decode(StringIO(payload+'\n'), sfp)
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/uu.py", line 139, in decode
>     sys.stderr.write("Warning: %s\n" % str(v))
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/MultiLogger.py", line 45,
> in write
>     _logexc(logger, msg)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.py", line 22, in _logexc
>     sys.__stderr__.write('Logging error: %s\n' % logger)
> IOError: [Errno 5] Input/output error
> 
> Oct 03 19:31:15 2005 (19797) SHUNTING:
> 1128356560.2973039+4b942190224bf00c2f961bb06c0f123f9e79c412
> 
> Oct 03 21:27:43 2005 qrunner(6065): Warning: Trailing garbage
> 

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/



From aaron at mutualaid.org  Tue Oct  4 04:56:43 2005
From: aaron at mutualaid.org (Aaron)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 19:56:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce messages coming in after restart
Message-ID: <20051003195600.G50048@mail.mutualaid.org>

Hi.

I'm running Mailman 2.1.5 on FreeBSD 4.9-RELEASE-p10 with Postfix. I
actually have the same setup on two different servers and have been having
the same problem on both.

Every time Mailman gets restarted (pretty much only happens when we
reboot), tons of bounce notifications get sent out to list admins. It's
like Mailman was holding them and old released them upon restart.

I searched the archives for this list, but was unable to find anything
helpful.

Thanks in advance...

- aaron


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct  4 07:24:19 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 22:24:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emails are being moderated...
In-Reply-To: <003301c5c828$f5146a10$0700a8c0@JOHNNY>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510032224190937b720a51c@msapiro>

Johnny Schlaack wrote:
>
>We've set up a list that primary works as an announcement list instead of a
>discussion list.  Almost everyone on the list is setup to be moderated.
>Only a handful are not setup to be moderated.


This is not a very secure way to run an announcement list because the
list members can easily figure out who is able to post and can spoof
those addresses to post themselves.

It is better to moderate everyone and post via an Approved: header/body
line. Go to the FAQ wizard at http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
and search for announcement.


>But for some reason emails
>will not go to the list unless approved by the list owner of a certain
>unmoderated individual.  Now the only thing I can think of that might be
>causing a problem is that the email this individual sends out every Friday
>is a html newsletter.  The newsletter is like a webpage with tables and
>text. (The enewsletter is not an attachment but sent in the body of the
>email.)  Would this cause her emails to be moderated to be approved by the
>list owner?


Mailman tells you why the message is held for approval. What does
Mailman say the reason is?


>Is there a way that her emails can go through without approval?


If you use the "Approved:" method to post, this won't be a problem.
Otherwise, you first have to determine why the message is being held.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct  4 07:27:55 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 22:27:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] running Mailman on mail server, not web server
In-Reply-To: <55299.199.38.51.133.1128355171.squirrel@mail.techovations.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510032227550093bd5fef34@msapiro>

Troy Richard wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> You have to put
>>
>> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s:8112/mailman/'
>>
>> in mm_cfg.py and then run fix_url to update the existing lists. fix_url
>> is a withlist script. Run bin/fix_url.py stand alone for instructions.
>>
>Mark,
>
>I'm having another problem with the above.  I had to rebuild my mailserver
>and now I cannot remember how to completely set this up.
>
>I added the DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN to the mm_cfg.py.  And ran the fix_url
>script.  The problem I'm having now is some of the url are point to the
>wrong url.
>
>Here is what I have in my mm_cfg.py script.
>
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'nebraskaultimate.com'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.nebraskaultimate.com:8122'
>add_virtualhost('www.nebraskaultimate.com:8122', 'nebraskaultimate.com')
>add_virtualhost('www.atomicxterra.com:8122', 'atomicxterra.com')
>DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s:8122/mailman/'
>ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES = 1
>
>
>The problem is when I go to my atomicxterra list it has links to those
>lists but it is using the nebraskaultimate.com URL.  I guess I can't
>remember if I need to have the DEFAULT vars set.


You've got the :8122 in too many places for one thing. If it's in
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN as you have it, then you don't want it elsewhere.

I suggest the following for the relevant part of mm_cfg.py:

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'nebraskaultimate.com'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.nebraskaultimate.com'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost('www.nebraskaultimate.com', 'nebraskaultimate.com')
add_virtualhost('www.atomicxterra.com', 'atomicxterra.com')
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s:8122/mailman/'

The VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear() entry removes what was put there by the
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) that's in
Defaults.py. This isn't strictly necessary but it insures you have no
spurious entries in your VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary.

After fixing this and restarting Mailman, you'll need to run fix_url on
the existing lists. I think that will do it.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct  4 07:45:58 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 22:45:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Command-Line Interface
In-Reply-To: <8A936932-9FE3-49B2-8040-992C36E5A9E6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020051003224558076587a47017@msapiro>

Doug Penny wrote:

>I'm new to the list, but I've been using mailman for several years.   
>We recently moved our mailman server to a new machine and decided not  
>to install apache, but instead went with lighttpd.  Needless to say,  
>I'm having a difficult time getting the mailman web interface to work  
>with it, but the lists are running.  My question is, since I can not  
>currently access the web interface, is there a way to approve/reject  
>mail being held through the command line?  Thanks for any help.

Not really. bin/discard can be used to discard held messages, but it's
really designed for dumping old backlogs, not for dealing with current
holds on an ongoing basis, and there's no equivalent 'approve' script.

However, you can approve or discard posts by e-mail. If
admin_immed_notify is Yes, the notification e-mail contains a
message/rfc822 sub part that can be replied to to discard the post or
replied to with an Approved: <list_password> line to approve the post
- or you can just craft your own mail to the listname-request address
with the 'confirm <token>' command from the notification and an
Approved: line or not.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct  4 07:56:53 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 22:56:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce messages coming in after restart
In-Reply-To: <20051003195600.G50048@mail.mutualaid.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402005100322565300930b730292@msapiro>

Aaron wrote:
>
>I'm running Mailman 2.1.5 on FreeBSD 4.9-RELEASE-p10 with Postfix. I
>actually have the same setup on two different servers and have been having
>the same problem on both.
>
>Every time Mailman gets restarted (pretty much only happens when we
>reboot), tons of bounce notifications get sent out to list admins. It's
>like Mailman was holding them and old released them upon restart.


It could be lots of things and it's difficult to even begin without
more info.

Check Mailman's logs. One guess is for some reason the BounceRunner
dies and then starts after a restart and processes all the backlogged
bounces. The 'qrunner' log might show this. Also check the 'error' log

Also check the queues in qfiles. Particularly qfiles/bounces.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct  4 08:36:49 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 23:36:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on FreeBSD 5.4 problem
In-Reply-To: <CBEBACC6F980FA293883552D@[192.168.10.249]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510032336490265e1de6f5a@msapiro>

Sasa Stupar wrote:
>
>I have installed Mailman 2.1.6 from the ports. I have also Sendmail 8.13.5. =
>
>My problem is that after I have created a list, added new aliases and try=20
>to subscribe, I get message bounced back saying:
>-----
>Failure to find group name mailnull.  Try adding this group
>to your system, or re-run configure, providing an
>existing group name with the command line option --with-mail-gid.
>554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 8
>-----
>
>But I allready have a group name mailnull.
>What is wrong here?


This error comes from the wrapper which is invoked by the list aliases. 

Perhaps there is some incompatibility in getting a group between the
compiled code in the specific build of the wrapper in the package you
installed and your particular OS version.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sasa at stupar.homelinux.net  Tue Oct  4 09:17:00 2005
From: sasa at stupar.homelinux.net (Sasa Stupar)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 09:17:00 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on FreeBSD 5.4 problem
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510032336490265e1de6f5a@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200510032336490265e1de6f5a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <ADF8D8C050CFAF0CAD458858@[192.168.10.249]>



--On 3. oktober 2005 23:36 -0700 Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Sasa Stupar wrote:
>>
>> I have installed Mailman 2.1.6 from the ports. I have also Sendmail
>> 8.13.5. =
>>
>> My problem is that after I have created a list, added new aliases and
>> try=20 to subscribe, I get message bounced back saying:
>> -----
>> Failure to find group name mailnull.  Try adding this group
>> to your system, or re-run configure, providing an
>> existing group name with the command line option --with-mail-gid.
>> 554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 8
>> -----
>>
>> But I allready have a group name mailnull.
>> What is wrong here?
>
>
> This error comes from the wrapper which is invoked by the list aliases.
>
> Perhaps there is some incompatibility in getting a group between the
> compiled code in the specific build of the wrapper in the package you
> installed and your particular OS version.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

I have tried to compile MM with different mail_gid and I get allways the 
same error.
Another thing: when I first tried I get error that it cannot find 
/usr/sbin/smrsh. So I have made a symlink to smrsh and now I get the error 
about not finding the group name.

Sasa


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From tellme at climbtothestars.org  Tue Oct  4 12:14:45 2005
From: tellme at climbtothestars.org (Tara Star)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 12:14:45 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] encoding problem (french)
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510031726020859dcc7627d@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200510031726020859dcc7627d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <AA123BF8-7230-4C56-9A31-6D8580A56224@climbtothestars.org>


On Oct 4, 2005, at 02:26, Mark Sapiro wrote:


>> Only problem is the .po will not compile. Of course, I tried
>> compiling the original .po just to make sure I hadn't messed things
>> up with iconv, and it doesn't compile either :-(
>>
>>
>
>
> Are you compiling with Mailman's bin/msgfmt.py or some other msgfmt
> implementation. This may be the problem. The original file should
> compile OK with bin/msgfmt.py.
>


YAY! that was the missing bit. I was using /usr/bin/msgfmt

Here is what I did:

iconv -f iso-8859-1 -t utf-8 -o mailman.po.new mailman.po # convert  
from latin-1 to utf-8
mv mailman.po mailman.po.old # just in case
mv mailman.po.new mailman.po
../../../bin/msgfmt.py mailman.po # generate .mo from .po

:-)

Thanks for the help!

Steph
--
http://climbtothestars.org/
http://stephanie-booth.com/
http://flickr.com/photos/bunny/



From tellme at climbtothestars.org  Tue Oct  4 12:24:44 2005
From: tellme at climbtothestars.org (Tara Star)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 12:24:44 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] encoding problem (french)
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510031732200796dcc76250@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200510031732200796dcc76250@msapiro>
Message-ID: <8E86A4E3-8C2C-4E5B-9301-6E3FED0255F6@climbtothestars.org>


On Oct 4, 2005, at 02:32, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Tara Star wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>>  messages/fr/LC_MESSAGES/
>>>
>>
>> so actually, if I just convert this to UTF-8, I should be ok, right?
>>
>
>
> I'm not sure, but I think so as far as the web pages go. You may run
> into issues with Mailman generated e-mails.

That is indeed still an issue. How are they generated? Where are the  
strings for the mails stored?

Thanks :-)

Steph


From dwerder at gmx.net  Tue Oct  4 13:21:31 2005
From: dwerder at gmx.net (Dominik Werder)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 13:21:31 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reply-to header missing..
Message-ID: <op.sx4ch50wgft90w@dominik.test>

Hello all,

I'm using operas mail client.
Every mailing list running mail man does not add a reply-to header, so if  
I answer a message my reply goes directly to the person but not to the  
list :(

Is there something that can be done?

bye!
Dominik



From fholson at cohousing.org  Tue Oct  4 15:35:58 2005
From: fholson at cohousing.org (Fred H Olson)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 06:35:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users]
	http://mm_cfg_has_not_been_edited_to_set_host_domains/
In-Reply-To: <434266A1.1050907@servas.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510040616350.17879-100000@zoidberg.tigertech.net>

On a new MM list, many messages in the archives:
http://lists.servas.org/pipermail/servasnet/
have something like the following at the end:

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 
http://mm_cfg_has_not_been_edited_to_set_host_domains/pipermail/servasnet/attach...

I'm not the list manager of that list but I've corresponded with them and
they said that the "host_name" item (3rd from bottom of Mailman "General
Options" admin / config page) has been set to servas.org which seems
correct.

What does
http://mm_cfg_has_not_been_edited_to_set_host_domains/
mean?

Fred

-- 
Loose Lips Deserve Pink Slips. Fire Karl Rove.  
Fred H. Olson  Minneapolis,MN 55411  USA        (near north Mpls)
Communications for Justice - My new listserv org.       UU, Linux
My Link Page: http://fholson.cohousing.org       Ham radio:WB0YQM
fholson at cohousing.org   612-588-9532   (7am-10pm Central time)





From trichard at techovations.com  Tue Oct  4 15:45:53 2005
From: trichard at techovations.com (trichard at techovations.com)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 08:45:53 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] running Mailman on mail server, not web server
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510032227550093bd5fef34@msapiro>
References: <55299.199.38.51.133.1128355171.squirrel@mail.techovations.com>
	<PC1740200510032227550093bd5fef34@msapiro>
Message-ID: <35150.199.38.51.133.1128433553.squirrel@mail.techovations.com>

Thanks Mark,

That worked great.  The other thing that was causing a problem.  I had
created the list before I had the virtual hosts in there, so when I
deleted the list and recreated it helped fix the other problem.

Thanks again.


> Troy Richard wrote:
>
>>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>>
>>> You have to put
>>>
>>> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s:8112/mailman/'
>>>
>>> in mm_cfg.py and then run fix_url to update the existing lists. fix_url
>>> is a withlist script. Run bin/fix_url.py stand alone for instructions.
>>>
>>Mark,
>>
>>I'm having another problem with the above.  I had to rebuild my
>> mailserver
>>and now I cannot remember how to completely set this up.
>>
>>I added the DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN to the mm_cfg.py.  And ran the fix_url
>>script.  The problem I'm having now is some of the url are point to the
>>wrong url.
>>
>>Here is what I have in my mm_cfg.py script.
>>
>>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'nebraskaultimate.com'
>>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.nebraskaultimate.com:8122'
>>add_virtualhost('www.nebraskaultimate.com:8122', 'nebraskaultimate.com')
>>add_virtualhost('www.atomicxterra.com:8122', 'atomicxterra.com')
>>DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s:8122/mailman/'
>>ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES = 1
>>
>>
>>The problem is when I go to my atomicxterra list it has links to those
>>lists but it is using the nebraskaultimate.com URL.  I guess I can't
>>remember if I need to have the DEFAULT vars set.
>
>
> You've got the :8122 in too many places for one thing. If it's in
> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN as you have it, then you don't want it elsewhere.
>
> I suggest the following for the relevant part of mm_cfg.py:
>
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'nebraskaultimate.com'
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.nebraskaultimate.com'
> VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
> add_virtualhost('www.nebraskaultimate.com', 'nebraskaultimate.com')
> add_virtualhost('www.atomicxterra.com', 'atomicxterra.com')
> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s:8122/mailman/'
>
> The VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear() entry removes what was put there by the
> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST) that's in
> Defaults.py. This isn't strictly necessary but it insures you have no
> spurious entries in your VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary.
>
> After fixing this and restarting Mailman, you'll need to run fix_url on
> the existing lists. I think that will do it.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/trichard%40techovations.com
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>




From Jones.L at ocr.org.uk  Tue Oct  4 15:48:45 2005
From: Jones.L at ocr.org.uk (Lawrence Jones)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 14:48:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reply-to header missing..
Message-ID: <454A339FAC7D0848BB46E02345D986FF4A6147@sdcjntex02.ucles.internal>

Hi Dominik

In the general options of each list you can set 

"Hide the sender of a message, replacing it with the list address
(Removes From, Sender and Reply-To fields)"

To "Yes"

It hides the sender's address though, so if you want to keep that you
could try setting:

"Where are replies to list messages directed?"

To "This list"

Tho read the the recommendations for that option as it strips any
reply-to from the sender.

Hope that helps,

Lawrence
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+jones.l=ocr.org.uk at python.org 
> [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+jones.l=ocr.org.uk at python.org] 
> On Behalf Of Dominik Werder
> Sent: 04 October 2005 12:22
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] reply-to header missing..
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I'm using operas mail client.
> Every mailing list running mail man does not add a reply-to 
> header, so if I answer a message my reply goes directly to 
> the person but not to the list :(
> 
> Is there something that can be done?
> 
> bye!
> Dominik
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jones.l%4
> 0ocr.org.uk
> 
> Security Policy: 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq
> 01.027.htp
> 



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From mok at kde.ru  Tue Oct  4 16:21:17 2005
From: mok at kde.ru (Gregory Mokhin)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 10:21:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] encoding problem (french)
In-Reply-To: <AA123BF8-7230-4C56-9A31-6D8580A56224@climbtothestars.org>
References: <PC1740200510031726020859dcc7627d@msapiro>
	<AA123BF8-7230-4C56-9A31-6D8580A56224@climbtothestars.org>
Message-ID: <dhu369$ubm$1@sea.gmane.org>

Tara Star wrote:
> On Oct 4, 2005, at 02:26, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> Here is what I did:
> 
> iconv -f iso-8859-1 -t utf-8 -o mailman.po.new mailman.po # convert  
> from latin-1 to utf-8
> mv mailman.po mailman.po.old # just in case
> mv mailman.po.new mailman.po
> ../../../bin/msgfmt.py mailman.po # generate .mo from .po
> 

po files usually have charset data in their headers, that are
converted correctly by msgconv.

Use msgconv insted of iconv or fix the charset manually.

Regards,
Gregory



From mathieu.malaterre at kitware.com  Tue Oct  4 16:29:18 2005
From: mathieu.malaterre at kitware.com (Mathieu Malaterre)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 10:29:18 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Illegal list name: mailman@farsight-gentoo
In-Reply-To: <EC209F1C-25B3-4112-B57A-CBC5368323E0@memphis.edu>
References: <43419794.4020408@kitware.com>
	<EC209F1C-25B3-4112-B57A-CBC5368323E0@memphis.edu>
Message-ID: <434291BE.6010604@kitware.com>

Dan Phillips wrote:
> On Oct 3, 2005, at 3:41 PM, Mathieu Malaterre wrote:
> 
>> $ ls -al /usr/local/mailman/data
>> -rw-rw----   1 mailman mailman   357 Oct  3 16:22 aliases
>> -rw-r-----   1 mailman mailman 49152 Oct  3 16:22 aliases.db
> 
> 
> 
> I can't answer your main question, but I can tell you that you will  get 
> a permissions error when you try to create a list through the web  
> interface with the above setup. aliases.db must be group writable.

Where do you see that ?

http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node13.html
...
Run the bin/genaliases script to initialize your aliases file.

         % cd /usr/local/mailman
         % bin/genaliases

Make sure that the owner of the data/aliases and data/aliases.db file is 
mailman and that the group owner for those files is mailman, or whatever 
user and group you used in the configure command:

         % su
         % chown mailman:mailman data/aliases*
...

If Dan is correct could someone update the documentation, then :

         % su
         % chown mailman:mailman data/aliases*
         % chmod g+w data/aliases.db

Thanks
Mathieu


From mathieu.malaterre at kitware.com  Tue Oct  4 16:31:25 2005
From: mathieu.malaterre at kitware.com (Mathieu Malaterre)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 10:31:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Illegal list name: mailman@farsight-gentoo
In-Reply-To: <43419794.4020408@kitware.com>
References: <43419794.4020408@kitware.com>
Message-ID: <4342923D.5090001@kitware.com>

Ok the attachement was lost. Here it is again:

$ cat mm_cfg.py
...
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Default domain for email addresses of newly created MLs
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'farsight-gentoo'
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Default host for web interface of newly created MLs
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'farsight-gentoo'
#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Required when setting any of its arguments.
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# The default language for this server.
DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en'

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Iirc this was used in pre 2.1, leave it for now
USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER    = 0              # Still used?

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Unset send_reminders on newly created lists
DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = 0

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment this if you configured your MTA such that it
# automatically recognizes newly created lists.
# (see /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.{EXIM,...})
# MTA=None   # Misnomer, suppresses alias output on newlist

#-------------------------------------------------------------
# Uncomment if you use Postfix virtual domains, but be sure to
# read /usr/share/doc/mailman/README.POSTFIX first.
MTA='Postfix'

# Note - if you're looking for something that is imported from mm_cfg, 
but you
# didn't find it above, it's probably in 
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py.

VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = 1
VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES = 1
VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1
VERP_CONFIRMATIONS = 1

Thanks again
Mathieu

Mathieu Malaterre wrote:
> Hello,
> 
>     Seems like this topic comes often in the newgroup, but since I could 
> not find an answer to my particular problem, I figure out I could -also- 
> send a request about this problem.
> 
>     So I am trying to install mailman, I read and followed instructions 
> from:
> 
> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install.pdf
> 
>     since I have a running postfix installation (gentoo box), I just 
> modify the few main.cf options needed, basically:
> owner_request_special = no
> and
> alias_maps = hash:/etc/mail/aliases,
>   hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
> 
>     I did generate the aliases using genalias (under root), and then 
> chmod to mailman:
> 
> $ ls -al /usr/local/mailman/data
> -rw-rw----   1 mailman mailman   357 Oct  3 16:22 aliases
> -rw-r-----   1 mailman mailman 49152 Oct  3 16:22 aliases.db
> 
>     And finally here is the /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py I am 
> using. It is attached to this email.
> 
> Does anyone knows what is going on ? Is there a way to make mailman more 
> verbose on why this mailing list is 'illegal'.
> 
> Thanks a bunch,
> Mathieu
> Ps:
> $ telnet farsight-gentoo 25
> Trying 127.0.0.1...
> Connected to farsight-gentoo.
> Escape character is '^]'.
> 220 farsight-gentoo ESMTP Postfix


From hannah at schlund.de  Tue Oct  4 16:50:01 2005
From: hannah at schlund.de (Hannah Schroeter)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 16:50:01 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reply-to header missing..
In-Reply-To: <op.sx4ch50wgft90w@dominik.test>
References: <op.sx4ch50wgft90w@dominik.test>
Message-ID: <20051004145001.GB21719@schlund.de>

Hello!

On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 01:21:31PM +0200, Dominik Werder wrote:
>Hello all,

>I'm using operas mail client.
>Every mailing list running mail man does not add a reply-to header, so if  
>I answer a message my reply goes directly to the person but not to the  
>list :(

>Is there something that can be done?

Reasonable MUAs have a separate list reply function. E.g. with mutt,
I can register the mailing lists I'm on (the To address where
submissions to the list go), and if I ask mutt to do a list reply, it
takes all known list addresses from To and CC as target for the reply.

(private) reply addresses Reply-To, or From. (group) reply addresses all
addresses from From/To/CC except for mine.

>bye!
>Dominik

Kind regards,

Hannah.


From jdennis at redhat.com  Tue Oct  4 16:51:42 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 10:51:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users]
	http://mm_cfg_has_not_been_edited_to_set_host_domains/
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510040616350.17879-100000@zoidberg.tigertech.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0510040616350.17879-100000@zoidberg.tigertech.net>
Message-ID: <1128437503.19111.290.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Tue, 2005-10-04 at 06:35 -0700, Fred H Olson wrote:
> URL: 
> http://mm_cfg_has_not_been_edited_to_set_host_domains/pipermail/servasnet/attach...
> 
> I'm not the list manager of that list but I've corresponded with them and
> they said that the "host_name" item (3rd from bottom of Mailman "General
> Options" admin / config page) has been set to servas.org which seems
> correct.
> 
> What does
> http://mm_cfg_has_not_been_edited_to_set_host_domains/
> mean?

It means mm_cfg.py has not been edited to set the host domains ;-)

I recognize this from the Red Hat mailman rpm installation. There is a
mailman configuration file (/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py which is
sym linked to /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py). This the file that is supposed to
be edited for site preferences as explained
in /usr/share/doc/mailman-*/INSTALL.REDHAT.

The mm_cfg file as shipped attempts to start up without needing any site
configuration to make installation easier. It attemts to figure out the
site FQDN (Fully Qualified Doman Name, e.g. my.company.com) and sets the
mailman domain parameters accordingly. If it can't figure out your FQDN
it sets the domans to the string you see above (which I had hoped would
be more or less self explanatory as an indicator you have to manually
edit the file).
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From tellme at climbtothestars.org  Tue Oct  4 17:39:43 2005
From: tellme at climbtothestars.org (Tara Star)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 17:39:43 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newsletter?
Message-ID: <153D2FAD-E925-431B-8314-0C3D4FB975CD@climbtothestars.org>

Hello,

is there any way I can configure my mailman list to behave like a  
newsletter? ie, 2-3 people can post to it, all others receive it, but  
can't post. I've looked around in the admin interface and the docs  
and I can't find anything about that.

Thanks,

Steph



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct  4 17:48:03 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 08:48:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newsletter?
In-Reply-To: <153D2FAD-E925-431B-8314-0C3D4FB975CD@climbtothestars.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402005100408480306257bd66d94@msapiro>

Tara Star wrote:
>
>is there any way I can configure my mailman list to behave like a  
>newsletter? ie, 2-3 people can post to it, all others receive it, but  
>can't post. I've looked around in the admin interface and the docs  
>and I can't find anything about that.


Go to the FAQ wizard
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
and search for newsletter.


--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct  4 18:23:03 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 09:23:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reply-to header missing..
In-Reply-To: <454A339FAC7D0848BB46E02345D986FF4A6147@sdcjntex02.ucles.internal>
Message-ID: <PC17402005100409230307817bd66e30@msapiro>

Lawrence Jones wrote:
>
>In the general options of each list you can set 
>
>"Hide the sender of a message, replacing it with the list address
>(Removes From, Sender and Reply-To fields)"
>
>To "Yes"
>
>It hides the sender's address though, so if you want to keep that you
>could try setting:
>
>"Where are replies to list messages directed?"
>
>To "This list"
>
>Tho read the the recommendations for that option as it strips any
>reply-to from the sender.

Actually, it doesn't strip the sender's reply-to unless either
anonymous_list or first_strip_reply_to is set to Yes, but do read the
information at the (Details for reply_goes_to_list) link as stripping
of reply-to is only a small part of why this is considered bad.

Also note, unless you have a recent CVS, the link in the details to the
Reply-To Munging Considered Useful document needs to be corrected to
http://www.metasystema.net/essays/reply-to.mhtml

Also see the reply by Hannah in this thread. I.e., use list-reply if
available in your mail client or group-reply/reply-all otherwise.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Oct  4 18:38:10 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 18:38:10 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reply-to header missing..
In-Reply-To: <op.sx4ch50wgft90w@dominik.test>
References: <op.sx4ch50wgft90w@dominik.test>
Message-ID: <p0620071dbf686041d3c8@[172.16.1.3]>

At 1:21 PM +0200 2005-10-04, Dominik Werder wrote:

>  I'm using operas mail client.
>  Every mailing list running mail man does not add a reply-to header, so if
>  I answer a message my reply goes directly to the person but not to the
>  list :(

	You can set a list-specific "Reply-to:" header, but that's almost 
always a really bad idea.  Go to the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> and search for "reply-to".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct  4 19:44:41 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 10:44:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] encoding problem (french)
In-Reply-To: <8E86A4E3-8C2C-4E5B-9301-6E3FED0255F6@climbtothestars.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510041044410250208bc123@msapiro>

Tara Star wrote:
>
>That is indeed still an issue. How are they generated? Where are the  
>strings for the mails stored?

I think what's left to deal with are templates. The html templates for
the most part (or entirely) use html escapes for the non-ascii
characters so they are OK, but the text templates contain accented
letters and will have to be translated to utf-8. The base templates
are in templates/fr/*.txt, but also see
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp
for other places where templates may be stored.

In fact, you may wish to store your translated templates in
templates/site/fr/ to avoid changing the base.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct  4 20:00:00 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 11:00:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Illegal list name: mailman@farsight-gentoo
In-Reply-To: <4342923D.5090001@kitware.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510041100000328d6576fa8@msapiro>

Mathieu Malaterre wrote:
>
>$ cat mm_cfg.py
>...
>#-------------------------------------------------------------
># Default domain for email addresses of newly created MLs
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'farsight-gentoo'
>#-------------------------------------------------------------
># Default host for web interface of newly created MLs
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'farsight-gentoo'
>#-------------------------------------------------------------
<snip>


As I said in my original reply (did you see it?), "one possibility is
that Mailman requires fully qualified domain names - local names are
not acceptable."

I.e, you must have something like

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'farsight-gentoo.example.com'

DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'farsight-gentoo.example.com'

instead of the above.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dhphllps at memphis.edu  Tue Oct  4 20:03:47 2005
From: dhphllps at memphis.edu (Dan Phillips)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 13:03:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Illegal list name: mailman@farsight-gentoo
In-Reply-To: <434291BE.6010604@kitware.com>
References: <43419794.4020408@kitware.com>
	<EC209F1C-25B3-4112-B57A-CBC5368323E0@memphis.edu>
	<434291BE.6010604@kitware.com>
Message-ID: <0E3D8FD4-E315-4AAC-AED2-8A2410DAD48D@memphis.edu>

On Oct 4, 2005, at 9:29 AM, Mathieu Malaterre wrote:
> Dan Phillips wrote:
>
>> On Oct 3, 2005, at 3:41 PM, Mathieu Malaterre wrote:
>>
>>> $ ls -al /usr/local/mailman/data
>>> -rw-rw----   1 mailman mailman   357 Oct  3 16:22 aliases
>>> -rw-r-----   1 mailman mailman 49152 Oct  3 16:22 aliases.db
>>>
>> I can't answer your main question, but I can tell you that you  
>> will  get a permissions error when you try to create a list  
>> through the web  interface with the above setup. aliases.db must  
>> be group writable.
>>
>
> Where do you see that ?
>
> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node13.html
> ...
> If Dan is correct could someone update the documentation, then :
>
>         % su
>         % chown mailman:mailman data/aliases*
>         % chmod g+w data/aliases.db

See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.009.htp

AFAIK, this is a problem only with Postfix (?) and it's not caught or  
fixed by check_perms.

Dan


From alexander at ogol.info  Tue Oct  4 20:34:56 2005
From: alexander at ogol.info (Alexander Ogol)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 21:34:56 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribing lists to lists
Message-ID: <auto-000370589499@mail.alkar.net>

Hello Mailman Users,
 
Can you please help with answer, does Mailman supports and handles correctly
maillists, subscripted to other maillists (on the same mailman
installation), and emails, sent to multiple lists on the same installation
(like MS Exchange)?
Just as example, suppose we have those lists with subscribers (on the same
host, of course):
 
Project1 Programmers
  Programmer1
  Programmer2
  Project1 Programming Managers
 
Project1 Programming Managers
  Programmer1
  Programmer3
 
Project1 Architects
  Programmer1
 
All Architects
  Project1 Architects
  Project2 Architects
 
If in this case mail is sent to:
 
To: Project1 Programmers
CC: All Architects
 
how many copies of letter Programmer1 will receive? (Or can it be setupped,
so Programmer1 will receive letter only one time)?
 
-- 
Thank you in advance,
With best regards,  <http://ogol.info/> Alexander Ogol.
 


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct  4 20:43:02 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 11:43:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribing lists to lists
In-Reply-To: <auto-000370589499@mail.alkar.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402005100411430208902b9cf19c@Notebook>

Alexander Ogol wrote:
> 
>Just as example, suppose we have those lists with subscribers (on the same
>host, of course):
> 
>Project1 Programmers
>  Programmer1
>  Programmer2
>  Project1 Programming Managers
> 
>Project1 Programming Managers
>  Programmer1
>  Programmer3
> 
>Project1 Architects
>  Programmer1
> 
>All Architects
>  Project1 Architects
>  Project2 Architects
> 
>If in this case mail is sent to:
> 
>To: Project1 Programmers
>CC: All Architects
> 
>how many copies of letter Programmer1 will receive?


Three.


>(Or can it be setupped,
>so Programmer1 will receive letter only one time)?

See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.005.htp
for a partial workaround.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From paul.williams at uwex.edu  Tue Oct  4 21:10:08 2005
From: paul.williams at uwex.edu (Paul Williams)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 14:10:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists - mixing lists and subscribers
Message-ID: <4342D390.3020200@uwex.edu>

I have an Umbrella list which has both
lists and subscribers as members of the list.

The default setting for an Umbrella list is

Suffix for use when this list is an umbrella for other lists, 
according to setting of previous "umbrella_list" setting
set at   

     -owner

This causes a problem when adding in subscribers
using the Mass Subscription option and you want the 
user to "Send welcome messages to new subscribees".

Those messages are sent out with -owner on their
email address so it gets bounced.

Is there a better way to handle Umbrella lists?

Of course the best way might be to add a new feature in 
Mailman so you could identify a subscriber's address as 
a list (say with a separate flag) so it does not send out 
passwords to that email address.

Thanks,


paulw




From alexander at ogol.info  Tue Oct  4 21:23:39 2005
From: alexander at ogol.info (Alexander Ogol)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 22:23:39 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribing lists to lists
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005100411430208902b9cf19c@Notebook>
Message-ID: <auto-000370612217@mail.alkar.net>

To Mailman authors/developers: 

Can it be sponsored enhancement?
Can you please evaluate it?


Thank you!
Alexander

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 9:43 PM
To: Alexander Ogol; mailman-users at python.org
Cc: 'Andrey Tkachenko'; alexey at kovyrin.net
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Subscribing lists to lists

Alexander Ogol wrote:
> 
>Just as example, suppose we have those lists with subscribers (on the same
>host, of course):
> 
>Project1 Programmers
>  Programmer1
>  Programmer2
>  Project1 Programming Managers
> 
>Project1 Programming Managers
>  Programmer1
>  Programmer3
> 
>Project1 Architects
>  Programmer1
> 
>All Architects
>  Project1 Architects
>  Project2 Architects
> 
>If in this case mail is sent to:
> 
>To: Project1 Programmers
>CC: All Architects
> 
>how many copies of letter Programmer1 will receive?


Three.


>(Or can it be setupped,
>so Programmer1 will receive letter only one time)?

See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.005.htp
for a partial workaround.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct  4 22:10:40 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 13:10:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Umbrella lists - mixing lists and subscribers
In-Reply-To: <4342D390.3020200@uwex.edu>
Message-ID: <PC174020051004131040034358e8d7ff@msapiro>

Paul Williams wrote:
>
>Suffix for use when this list is an umbrella for other lists, 
>according to setting of previous "umbrella_list" setting
>set at   
>
>     -owner
>
>This causes a problem when adding in subscribers
>using the Mass Subscription option and you want the 
>user to "Send welcome messages to new subscribees".
>
>Those messages are sent out with -owner on their
>email address so it gets bounced.
>
>Is there a better way to handle Umbrella lists?


Not currently as far as I know.


>Of course the best way might be to add a new feature in 
>Mailman so you could identify a subscriber's address as 
>a list (say with a separate flag) so it does not send out 
>passwords to that email address.


The ToDo/Wishlist at http://www.list.org/todo.html contains the
following:

#  A better strategy is needed for sub-lists and super-lists, including
   dealing with the resulting password reminders and authorization to
   modify the sub & superlists.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct  4 22:21:25 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 13:21:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribing lists to lists
In-Reply-To: <auto-000370612217@mail.alkar.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402005100413212500939be64096@msapiro>

Alexander Ogol wrote regarding
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.005.htp:

>To Mailman authors/developers: 
>
>Can it be sponsored enhancement?
>Can you please evaluate it?


The most effective way to submit a request for enhancement is to first
review the ToDo/Wishlist at http://www.list.org/todo.html and existing
RFEs at http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=350103 and
then submit it at the sourceforge URL or add comments to existing
requests.

In this case, searching at
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=350103 for Summary
keyword: umbrella returns two relevant RFEs,  1041965 and 230730.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct  5 00:42:01 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 15:42:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on FreeBSD 5.4 problem
In-Reply-To: <ADF8D8C050CFAF0CAD458858@[192.168.10.249]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510041542010484b6cb6105@msapiro>

Sasa Stupar wrote:
>
>I have tried to compile MM with different mail_gid and I get allways
>the same error.
>Another thing: when I first tried I get error that it cannot find
>/usr/sbin/smrsh. So I have made a symlink to smrsh and now I get the
>error about not finding the group name.

This is likely still a smrsh issue. Have you seen and followed
http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node32.html

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From gik72000 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  5 01:27:39 2005
From: gik72000 at yahoo.com (Bob Bobby)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 16:27:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Will Mailman work with my specs
Message-ID: <20051004232740.15991.qmail@web53406.mail.yahoo.com>

Before I tackle installing MailMan I was hoping you could tell me if it will work for me.
My laptop: Windows 2000 Pro
 
My host is ipowerweb.com
 
Their specs are:
operating system: FreeBSD 4.11-Stable
mySQL ver. 12.22 Distrib 4.0.16
perl v 5.8.3
PHP 4.3.11
server API Apache
path to sendmail: /usr/sbin/sendmail
path to perl: /usr/bin/perl
 
Treat your response as if I am clueless about this process, which I am!
 
Regards,
Bob
gik72000 at yahoo.com


		
---------------------------------
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From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct  5 02:32:45 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 17:32:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Will Mailman work with my specs
In-Reply-To: <20051004232740.15991.qmail@web53406.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005100417324503126b3baf85@msapiro>

Bob Bobby wrote:

>Before I tackle installing MailMan I was hoping you could tell me if it will work for me.
>My laptop: Windows 2000 Pro
> 
>My host is ipowerweb.com


Are you considering installing on your laptop or your host?

If your laptop, see
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq05.002.htp

If the host,
 
>Their specs are:
>operating system: FreeBSD 4.11-Stable
>mySQL ver. 12.22 Distrib 4.0.16
>perl v 5.8.3
>PHP 4.3.11
>server API Apache
>path to sendmail: /usr/sbin/sendmail
>path to perl: /usr/bin/perl

Omitted from the above is Python. Mailman definitely requires Python.
See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq05.008.htp

Also, to install on the host, root access is required for some key
steps. See http://www.list.org/mailman-install/index.html

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dfilchak at sympatico.ca  Wed Oct  5 06:35:22 2005
From: dfilchak at sympatico.ca (Dave Filchak)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 00:35:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not Authorized
Message-ID: <4343580A.2020409@sympatico.ca>

Hello,

I have just installed Mailman on CentOS4. Everything seems to be fine
until I try to set up a new list. I have searched the archives and the
general consensus is that when you receive a "You are not authorized to
create a new list" error, it means that you are not entering the
sitewidepass correctly or the List Creator's password correctly. I can
assure you that I am entering these both correctly and have tried these
many times and have re-created both passwords to be sure. So I am
wondering if anyone can shed some light on this?

As an aside, we did try to install Mailman using an RPM file but the web
server does not run under apache so we uninstalled Mailman and
reinstalled from source. I am wondering if the previous install of
Mailman might be affecting things.

All help is appreciated as I have a client anxiously awaiting use of
Mailman.

Cheers

Dave


From dfilchak at sympatico.ca  Wed Oct  5 07:05:38 2005
From: dfilchak at sympatico.ca (Dave Filchak)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 01:05:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not Authorized
In-Reply-To: <4343580A.2020409@sympatico.ca>
References: <4343580A.2020409@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <43435F22.3080809@sympatico.ca>

OK ... sorry for the waste of bandwidth but I did figure it out. It
appears as though the rpm install did leave some remnants about that
were not working. The paths were wrong in the
/etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf file for the ScriptAlias and the Alias
directives. Once I changed them to the proper location all was well.

Thanks

Dave

Dave Filchak wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I have just installed Mailman on CentOS4. Everything seems to be fine
>until I try to set up a new list. I have searched the archives and the
>general consensus is that when you receive a "You are not authorized to
>create a new list" error, it means that you are not entering the
>sitewidepass correctly or the List Creator's password correctly. I can
>assure you that I am entering these both correctly and have tried these
>many times and have re-created both passwords to be sure. So I am
>wondering if anyone can shed some light on this?
>
>As an aside, we did try to install Mailman using an RPM file but the web
>server does not run under apache so we uninstalled Mailman and
>reinstalled from source. I am wondering if the previous install of
>Mailman might be affecting things.
>
>All help is appreciated as I have a client anxiously awaiting use of
>Mailman.
>
>Cheers
>
>Dave
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dfilchak%40sympatico.ca
>
>Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>
>  
>


From dfilchak at sympatico.ca  Wed Oct  5 07:13:45 2005
From: dfilchak at sympatico.ca (Dave Filchak)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 01:13:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML Newsletter
Message-ID: <43436109.2070907@sympatico.ca>

Two questions:

1. Can I use Mailman to send out a simple HTML newsletter?
2. Is there a way to import or subscribe a list of members to a
particular list .. i.e. a list that will receive the above newsletter?

Thanks for your help.

Dave


From xma at uclink.berkeley.edu  Wed Oct  5 07:16:16 2005
From: xma at uclink.berkeley.edu (Xiaoyan Ma)
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 22:16:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hide lists from listinfo page only (leave on
 admin page)
In-Reply-To: <p06200703bf5558c21b6f@[10.0.1.210]>
References: <web-10715430@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>
	<p06200703bf5558c21b6f@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <web-11476083@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>

Brad:
Thank you for your advice. Sorry it took me so long get back on this.

I have submitted the new feature request as you suggested. As for applying patches, I don't know 
how it will affect upgrades. Do you normally need to un-patch before upgrade and then re-apply 
patches?

I would like to learn from other people on the list about how to organize large number of lists. 
With Majorcool, you can search from the drop down menu or search by key word. You can also tell if 
a list is open for subscription. Mailman's listinfo/admin page simply displays all lists from a-z 
(unless they are hidden). When there are hundreds of lists, it is not easy to find the list you 
for are looking for and once you find it you can not tell if you can subscribe to it.

Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks.

Xiaoyan

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:15:18 +0200
  Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote:
> At 5:44 PM -0700 2005-09-19, Xiaoyan Ma wrote:
> 
>>  We have migrated all mailing lists from Majordomo to Mailman 
>>(mailman-2.1.5-25.rhel3n on redhat
>>  3.0 AS).  We would like to hide those lists that are closed for 
>>subscription from the listinfo
>>  page for 2 reasons: to keep the page short and to avoid 
>>subscription attempts. We would like to
>>  keep them on the admin page for the list owners. Setting 
>>"advertised = 1" will hide the list from
>>  both listinfo page and admin page.
> 
> 	Mailman doesn't work that way.  Either a list is advertised (and therefore shown in both 
>places), or it's not (and you have to know or be able to guess the URL before you can go there).
> 
> 	If you want to supply some patches, upload them at 
><http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=300103> and we'll see when we may be able to 
>include them in a future release. Otherwise, file a Request for Enhancement at 
><http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=350103>, and hope that someone may be able to 
>address this issue at some point in the hopefully not-too-distant future.
> 
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
> 
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
> 
>     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
> 
>   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.



From sasa at stupar.homelinux.net  Wed Oct  5 07:48:49 2005
From: sasa at stupar.homelinux.net (Sasa Stupar)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 07:48:49 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on FreeBSD 5.4 problem
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510041542010484b6cb6105@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200510041542010484b6cb6105@msapiro>
Message-ID: <E48065832D2F9394B338C2C5@[192.168.10.249]>



--On 4. oktober 2005 15:42 -0700 Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Sasa Stupar wrote:
>>
>> I have tried to compile MM with different mail_gid and I get allways
>> the same error.
>> Another thing: when I first tried I get error that it cannot find
>> /usr/sbin/smrsh. So I have made a symlink to smrsh and now I get the
>> error about not finding the group name.
>
> This is likely still a smrsh issue. Have you seen and followed
> http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node32.html
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

Yes. I have seen this. On my system:
---------------
# grep smrsh /etc/mail/sendmail.cf
#####  $Id: smrsh.m4,v 8.14 1999/11/18 05:06:23 ca Exp $  #####
Mprog,          P=/usr/sbin/smrsh, F=lsDFMoqeu9, S=EnvFromL/HdrFromL, 
R=EnvToL/HdrToL, D=$z:/,
                A=smrsh -c $u
---------------

# strings /usr/sbin/smrsh | less
/usr/libexec/sm.bin

-------------------
# cd /usr/libexec/sm.bin/
# ll
total 0
lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  31 Oct  4 09:53 mailman -> 
/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
--------------------

Any other idea?

Sasa
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From AStet at VluchtelingenWerk.nl  Wed Oct  5 09:46:29 2005
From: AStet at VluchtelingenWerk.nl (Arjen Stet)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 09:46:29 +0200 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Send mail on subdomain
Message-ID: <258734CD3ABCD211A0EB00805F8B413E04D7C09C@LB_EXCHANGE>

To whom it may concern,

We recently installed Mailman and tested it. After an ok we moved the lot to
a subdomain so that it did not interfere with the regular mail. In the
settings the subdomain is set in the field "host_name". But whenever someone
would subscribe to the list the mail comes from the main-domain (wich has
never been used with Mailman). Did we miss a setting somewhere or is it not
possible to use a subdomain?

In detail:
We started on domain 'domainX.nl'
We transferred to domain 'news.domainY.nl'
It sends out e-mail from the domain 'domainY.nl'
odd to say the least..

Any comments that could be helpful would be appreciated.

Regards,

Arjen Stet



From sythos at sythos.net  Wed Oct  5 12:17:08 2005
From: sythos at sythos.net (Sythos)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 12:17:08 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Will Mailman work with my specs
In-Reply-To: <20051004232740.15991.qmail@web53406.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20051004232740.15991.qmail@web53406.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20051005101708.GE12093@sythos.net>

On Tue, Oct 04, 2005 at 04:27:39PM -0700, Bob Bobby wrote:
> Before I tackle installing MailMan I was hoping you could tell me if it will work for me.
> My host is ipowerweb.com
> Their specs are:
> operating system: FreeBSD 4.11-Stable
> mySQL ver. 12.22 Distrib 4.0.16
> perl v 5.8.3
> PHP 4.3.11
> server API Apache
> path to sendmail: /usr/sbin/sendmail
> path to perl: /usr/bin/perl
> Treat your response as if I am clueless about this process, which I am!

What about python?

-- 

Sythos - http://www.sythos.net
  ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
  /\                        - against M$ attachments


From dhollis at AandOConsultancy.ltd.uk  Wed Oct  5 16:30:22 2005
From: dhollis at AandOConsultancy.ltd.uk (David J.B.Hollis)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 15:30:22 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] To Have One's Cake And Eat It!
Message-ID: <9008D0E6-35AC-11DA-8B7A-000393104B36@AandOConsultancy.ltd.uk>

I guess it's the perennial problem with all lists - is it a discussion 
list or an announcements list? Invariably, there's bound to be 
instances where you've set up one, but want the other! (Murphy's Law!)

There is a useful FAQ about this:

3.48. What about setting a "Reply-To:" header for the list?

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.048.htp

I'm with the 'Keep-It-Simple' brigade, as the list I'm hosting is used 
by non-techie folk who have barely grasped the basic concept of an 
email list, let alone the benefits and problems!

I'm hosting a discussion list on MM 2.1.5, and what I'd like to try out 
is a header/footer with something like the following:

"To continue the discussion, please reply to this email.
To send a private email to the sender, click here: ..."

This would need to be followed by a standard variable for the Sender.

I appreciate that will only produce an email to the sender, and not 
populate the Subject line. It'd be nice if this were possible, but I 
can only see this being done by an HTML mailto: link, which would 
obviously not work with plain text!

So, has anyone done anything like this?

What would be the standard variable for the Sender?

MTIA
David



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct  5 16:47:41 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 07:47:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML Newsletter
In-Reply-To: <43436109.2070907@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510050747410593da8b619a@msapiro>

Dave Filchak wrote:

>Two questions:
>
>1. Can I use Mailman to send out a simple HTML newsletter?


Yes. Go to the FAQ and search for newsletter for help in configuring a
list as a newsletter.


>2. Is there a way to import or subscribe a list of members to a
>particular list .. i.e. a list that will receive the above newsletter?


There is a mass subscribe feature on the admin interface for a list.
There is also a bin/add_members command line tool. Search the FAQ for
mass subscribe and also for bin/ commands.

The FAQ wizard is at
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct  5 16:50:17 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 07:50:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Send mail on subdomain
In-Reply-To: <258734CD3ABCD211A0EB00805F8B413E04D7C09C@LB_EXCHANGE>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510050750170062da8b5f6f@msapiro>

Arjen Stet wrote:
>
>In detail:
>We started on domain 'domainX.nl'
>We transferred to domain 'news.domainY.nl'
>It sends out e-mail from the domain 'domainY.nl'
>odd to say the least..
>
>Any comments that could be helpful would be appreciated.



>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Article 4.29 Don't overlook the part about fix_url for existing lists.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sean at sweetbourbon.com  Wed Oct  5 16:58:10 2005
From: sean at sweetbourbon.com (Sean)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 10:58:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header and footers
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0510051056410.70174@seyyav.pair.com>


Hi,

what script attaches the headers and footers to a message before it is
sent out?

Thanks,
Sean


From ifetch at du.edu  Wed Oct  5 18:01:12 2005
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 10:01:12 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unknown encoding crashes qrunner
Message-ID: <20051005093111.I85121@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>

Hello,

    We have occasions where mailman (2.1.5) seases processing messages sent 
to lists - looking in the error log I have this (which I am not entirely sure 
is related, but it seems plausable):

** begin log **
Oct 05 08:44:51 2005 (15118) Uncaught runner exception: 
unknown encoding: unknown
Oct 05 08:44:51 2005 (15118) Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
     more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline
     sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 74, in process
     prefix_subject(mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 262, in prefix_subject
     h.append(s, c)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Header.py", line 285, in append
     s = s.encode(outcodec, errors)
LookupError: unknown encoding: unknown

Oct 05 08:44:51 2005 (15118) SHUNTING: 1128523491.012949+8a483505bad6e02364dde9314038b35222278d06


** end log **


    I've found mention of the bug at:
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=100103&aid=974290&group_id=103


    and further discussion on the thread at:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2004-December.txt


    however I'm in-need of some help further diagnosing whether the above 
error log snippet and mailman bug is actually the cause, and how to 
resolve the issue.  I'm confused as to why the unknown encoding is 
"unknown" - can someone shed light on this?


    We are looking to upgrade to 2.1.6, but would prefer to do it later in 
the year.


Thanks -- Ivan.


From drew.tenenholz at isid.org  Wed Oct  5 18:47:48 2005
From: drew.tenenholz at isid.org (Drew Tenenholz)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 12:47:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] NEWBIE Seeking Reference Materials/Developers
Message-ID: <v04220810bf69b3da6fe2@[192.168.201.104]>

Dear List --

I hope you can help me find books, reading materials, and possibly 
developers in my area that can help me customize Mailman for one of 
my clients.  I previously posted to one of the language specific 
Mailman lists, but got no replies.

If you have the time to read the details below and can recommend ways 
to get started using Mailman/Python, I would greatly appreciate it. 
If not, what is the 'best' way to look for Mailman resources?

Sincerely,
Drew Tenenholz
Database Designer/Web Administrator
International Society for Infectious Diseases

The situation:
I am a FileMaker Pro developer in the Boston area.
My client is the International Society for Infectious Diseases 
<http://www.isid.org> and I have become their de facto IT department.
Prior to my arrival, they were running a collection of carefully 
moderated mailing lists with majordomo on a Sun 250 machine (Solaris 
8)  <http://www.promedmail.org> with about 32,000 subscribers.  They 
still do so today.
They have purchased a Mac OS XServe (dual 1.25GHz), running OS X 10.3 
(Panther), Apache 1.3 and Mailman 2.1.4 and want to take advantage of 
the pre-installed Mailman

What is needed:
How can we adapt the public subscription pages to limit user's options?

Although Mailman provides a wealth of options, our users truly need 
less.  Right now, most of them know nothing more than 
subscribe/unsubscribe via email, and we employ customized web pages 
that issue email-based commands on their behalf.

One major reason for switching to Mailman was the 
internationalization support.  We are now running one list which 
should be sending almost exclusively Cyrillic posts (Russian).

What is required to insure postings appear in Cyrillic text?  Will 
they be UNICODE or HTML/charset encoded?  (i.e. How will the Oracle 
9i system handle the posts, assuming that it gets them at all?  We 
want to be able to search that database in Cyrillic after all.)

Our UNIX/Perl programmer has already modified the message headers to 
include a necessary custom header to integrate with an Oracle 
database archiving system for searching and displaying posts.

Has this been done 'correctly'?

Is it possible to create our own customized subscription pages that 
issue the required Python commands AND some additional 
FileMaker/Lasso/XML commands to update the subscriber database used 
by the office staff?

We need to gather more information than simply an email address.  We 
ask list members for contributions and use aggregate statistics in 
grant proposals, so email addresses alone are not sufficient.  If 
there is a seamless way to integrate the systems, that would be 
preferable.

From ssorensen at gmail.com  Wed Oct  5 19:30:19 2005
From: ssorensen at gmail.com (Svend Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 10:30:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] All *-admin Addresses Bouncing
Message-ID: <7ff9c2a10510051030n1bf24895off74994bcebf9580@mail.gmail.com>

All emails sent to LIST-admin@ are bouncing.  The sendmail alias for
LIST-admin is set up correctly, and from the logs, I can see it was
piped to Mailman.  I saw an old reference to this on the Mailman
lists, but I never found a fix.

I am running Mailman 2.1.6 and Sendmail 8.2.11.

Here is an example of a bounce I recieved:

-----------------------------------------------------
>From mailman-bounces at listdomain.com Fri Sep 30 11:19:21 2005
Subject: Uncaught bounce notification
From: mailman-bounces at listdomain.com
To: admin-owner at listdomain.com
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 11:19:18 -0700

Part 1:

The attached message was received as a bounce, but either the bounce
format was not recognized, or no member addresses could be extracted
from it.  This mailing list has been configured to send all
unrecognized bounce messages to the list administrator(s).

For more information see:
https://listdomain.com/mailman/admin/admin/bounce


Part 2:

>From SNIP Fri Sep 30 11:19:16 2005
From: <SNIP>
To: admin-admin at listdomain.com
Subject: Test
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 12:35:25 -0400


Part 2.1:

message body...
----------------------------------------------------------

In the mailman/logs/bounce, I see:

----------------------------------------------------------
Sep 30 11:19:18 2005 (964) bounce message w/no discernable addresses: <SNIP>
Sep 30 11:19:18 2005 (964) forwarding unrecognized, message-id: <SNIP>
----------------------------------------------------------

This happens with all emails sent to the *-admin addresses, so I hope
the sender addresses, which I cut out, aren't important.

Everything else seems to work fine.

--
Svend


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Oct  5 20:11:33 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 20:11:33 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hide lists from listinfo page only (leave on
 admin page)
In-Reply-To: <web-11476083@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>
References: <web-10715430@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>
	<p06200703bf5558c21b6f@[10.0.1.210]>
	<web-11476083@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <p06200724bf69c6f6e71f@[172.16.1.3]>

At 10:16 PM -0700 2005-10-04, Xiaoyan Ma wrote:

>  I have submitted the new feature request as you suggested. As for
>  applying patches, I don't know how it will affect upgrades.

	That could be a problem, yes.

>                                                               Do you
>  normally need to un-patch before upgrade and then re-apply patches?

	I don't normally try to do that, no.  But then, I don't normally 
need to apply patches to my Mailman installations, either.

>  I would like to learn from other people on the list about how to
>  organize large number of lists.

	There are some postings from people who maintain the lists for 
freebsd.org or lists.apple.com that you will find in the archives, 
some of which are also linked from the Mailman FAQ Wizard -- search 
for "performance", and you should see all the ones that are linked.

	There's definitely a lot of wisdom encapsulated in these various 
posts.  I would encourage you to read all these FAQ entries and 
messages, and then ask any further questions you may have.

>                     Mailman's listinfo/admin page simply displays all lists
>  from a-z (unless they are hidden).  When there are hundreds of lists, it is
>  not easy to find the list you for are looking for and once you find it you
>  can not tell if you can subscribe to it.

	This is an area of the Mailman user interface that could use 
improvement, yes.  For the moment, try using the "find" feature 
within your browser.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Oct  5 20:32:20 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 20:32:20 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] NEWBIE Seeking Reference Materials/Developers
In-Reply-To: <v04220810bf69b3da6fe2@[192.168.201.104]>
References: <v04220810bf69b3da6fe2@[192.168.201.104]>
Message-ID: <p06200725bf69c9a1872e@[172.16.1.3]>

At 12:47 PM -0400 2005-10-05, Drew Tenenholz wrote:

>  I hope you can help me find books, reading materials, and possibly
>  developers in my area that can help me customize Mailman for one of
>  my clients.  I previously posted to one of the language specific
>  Mailman lists, but got no replies.

	So far as I know, there are no books on Mailman.  There are some 
developers, but most of the ones I know are totally overwhelmed with 
their existing work and I don't know if they would be able to provide 
any assistance.

>  The situation:
>  I am a FileMaker Pro developer in the Boston area.
>  My client is the International Society for Infectious Diseases
>  <http://www.isid.org> and I have become their de facto IT department.
>  Prior to my arrival, they were running a collection of carefully
>  moderated mailing lists with majordomo on a Sun 250 machine (Solaris
>  8)  <http://www.promedmail.org> with about 32,000 subscribers.  They
>  still do so today.

	That's a pretty decent size Majordomo installation, but there are 
a number of Mailman mailing list sites that are considerably larger.

>  They have purchased a Mac OS XServe (dual 1.25GHz), running OS X 10.3
>  (Panther), Apache 1.3 and Mailman 2.1.4 and want to take advantage of
>  the pre-installed Mailman

	Ouch.  First off, take a look at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp>.

	Then, with regards to running large mailing list servers, see the 
entries returned by searching the FAQ Wizard for the word 
"performance" at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=performance&querytype=simple&casefold=yes&req=search>. 
Pay special attention to FAQ entry 1.15 and 1.24.

	Secondly, note that while lists.apple.com now uses XServe 
hardware themselves, they do not use the Apple-provided Mailman 
installation.  Instead, they built and installed the standard Mailman 
software.  Re-read FAQ 1.21 to understand why they chose this route.


	As for the rest, I'm not entirely sure that Mailman can help you. 
At least, not anything like it exists today.  Normally, we would 
refer you to FAQs 3.37, and 3.40 (and perhaps 3.18).

	But you should talk to someone who knows more about Mailman 
development than I do.  I'm just one of the guys who helps to run the 
python.org site and the mailman-related mailing lists on python.org, 
and I've helped to clarify or create many of the FAQ entries.

>  Is it possible to create our own customized subscription pages that
>  issue the required Python commands AND some additional
>  FileMaker/Lasso/XML commands to update the subscriber database used
>  by the office staff?

	Sure, you can write Python scripts to do most anything you want.

>  We need to gather more information than simply an email address.  We
>  ask list members for contributions and use aggregate statistics in
>  grant proposals, so email addresses alone are not sufficient.  If
>  there is a seamless way to integrate the systems, that would be
>  preferable.

	Mailman has no facilities for doing this kind of thing.  If you 
want/need this, you'll need to write your own code or find code that 
someone else has written.  In this case, we would normally refer you 
to FAQ 1.30.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From mok at kde.ru  Wed Oct  5 21:46:14 2005
From: mok at kde.ru (Gregory Mokhin)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 15:46:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] NEWBIE Seeking Reference Materials/Developers
In-Reply-To: <v04220810bf69b3da6fe2@[192.168.201.104]>
References: <v04220810bf69b3da6fe2@[192.168.201.104]>
Message-ID: <di1ajc$phl$1@sea.gmane.org>

Drew Tenenholz wrote:

> They have purchased a Mac OS XServe (dual 1.25GHz), running OS X 10.3 
> (Panther), Apache 1.3 and Mailman 2.1.4 and want to take advantage of 
> the pre-installed Mailman

Good, but it seems it is not so easy to use pre-installed software for
custom tasks, especially when the required level of customization is high.

> What is required to insure postings appear in Cyrillic text?  Will 
> they be UNICODE or HTML/charset encoded?  (i.e. How will the Oracle 
> 9i system handle the posts, assuming that it gets them at all?  We 
> want to be able to search that database in Cyrillic after all.)

Use Unicode, utf-8. Though database servers are usually able to handle
different encodings, doing this 8-bit encodings for Cyrillic is a
mess. You'll need to deal with at least 4 different popular encodings
for Cyrillic that are not totally compatible to each other. But all of
them can be mapped to utf-8.

> Our UNIX/Perl programmer has already modified the message headers to 
> include a necessary custom header to integrate with an Oracle 
> database archiving system for searching and displaying posts.

If you need just multilanguage archiving and search options, you might
want to read some docs on how to set up custom archiver (hypermail or
mhonarc) and use some indexing engine (e.g., mnogosearch) with a
database, such as Oracle, as a backend, for search capabilities. That
will be easier than developing such system from scratch, and surely
you will be able to get much more help with this on the mailing lists.

Regards,
Gregory




From Peter.Riess at arp-gmbh.de  Wed Oct  5 22:23:56 2005
From: Peter.Riess at arp-gmbh.de (Peter Riess)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 22:23:56 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Requests for Mailman drop in my mailbox
Message-ID: <4344365C.7060302@arp-gmbh.de>

Hi everyone,

I just started to install Mailman. The webinterface is running in the 
meanwhile and confirmation requests will be send out. If the users are 
confirming via webinterface it works. But if the users want to do 
something with the mail interface these mails will fall into my mailbox 
and will not be handled from mailman.

I'm running a Linux with SuSE 9.3 at home but don't have a normal mail 
server. I'm using fetchmail to poll my providers mail server and use 
postfix for further processing together with cyrus imap.

Has anyone an idea of what to do that mailman is able to take a look at 
the mails destinated for it?

At least I could setup at my providers server a whole bunch of mailman 
alias mailboxes, but then I need to know how to throw them into the 
mailman mail handling process. Much better would be if every mail would 
be touched automatically that the postmaster would fetch.

CIAO Peter


From richard.feltham at ca.mci.com  Thu Oct  6 01:07:04 2005
From: richard.feltham at ca.mci.com (Richard Feltham)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 16:07:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need help with a mailman archiving issue
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1128553433.19465.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <auto-000030823769@ca.mci.com>

Some time ago, we upgraded to mailman 2.1.5
We recently discovered that the web archives have not been updated since.
(It is dumping the email in the mboxes fine. It's just not building the web
links) 

I have been scratching my head reading documents trying to figure out what
happened.
Is there supposed to be a nightly cron job that updates the archives, that
we are missing?


I can run ./mailman/bin/arch <listname> and it will build the archives for
the web interface.

What is the proper procedure to build web links for *all* lists?
Is there an antry in mm_cfg.py that I am missing that is disabling the
building of the web links? Or is there an entry that *should* be there that
is not?

Thanks for your assistance,


Richard F.



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Oct  6 01:10:19 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 01:10:19 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Requests for Mailman drop in my mailbox
In-Reply-To: <4344365C.7060302@arp-gmbh.de>
References: <4344365C.7060302@arp-gmbh.de>
Message-ID: <p0620072bbf6a0da377b9@[172.16.1.3]>

At 10:23 PM +0200 2005-10-05, Peter Riess wrote:

>  At least I could setup at my providers server a whole bunch of mailman
>  alias mailboxes, but then I need to know how to throw them into the
>  mailman mail handling process. Much better would be if every mail would
>  be touched automatically that the postmaster would fetch.

	That sounds like a fetchmail problem, and outside the scope of 
this mailing list.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From ssorensen at gmail.com  Thu Oct  6 02:16:50 2005
From: ssorensen at gmail.com (Svend Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 17:16:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need help with a mailman archiving issue
In-Reply-To: <auto-000030823769@ca.mci.com>
References: <mailman.0.1128553433.19465.mailman-users@python.org>
	<auto-000030823769@ca.mci.com>
Message-ID: <7ff9c2a10510051716m34748dcaodd072406619ade6b@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/5/05, Richard Feltham wrote:
> Some time ago, we upgraded to mailman 2.1.5
> We recently discovered that the web archives have not been updated since.
> (It is dumping the email in the mboxes fine. It's just not building the web
> links)
>
> I have been scratching my head reading documents trying to figure out what
> happened.
> Is there supposed to be a nightly cron job that updates the archives, that
> we are missing?

There is: http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node41.html

> I can run ./mailman/bin/arch <listname> and it will build the archives for
> the web interface.
>
> What is the proper procedure to build web links for *all* lists?
> Is there an antry in mm_cfg.py that I am missing that is disabling the
> building of the web links? Or is there an entry that *should* be there that
> is not?


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct  6 03:41:45 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 18:41:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] header and footers
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0510051056410.70174@seyyav.pair.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510051841450859b3f61c28@msapiro>

Sean wrote:
>
>what script attaches the headers and footers to a message before it is
>sent out?

Mailman/Handlers/Decorate.py

The above is in the pipline to add msg_header and msg_footer to
individual messages. Its decorate method is called by
Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py to add digest_header and digest_footer to
digests.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct  6 03:47:53 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 18:47:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] All *-admin Addresses Bouncing
In-Reply-To: <7ff9c2a10510051030n1bf24895off74994bcebf9580@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510051847530734cceec7b3@msapiro>

Svend Sorensen wrote:

>All emails sent to LIST-admin@ are bouncing.  The sendmail alias for
>LIST-admin is set up correctly, and from the logs, I can see it was
>piped to Mailman.  I saw an old reference to this on the Mailman
>lists, but I never found a fix.

This is how it is supposed to work. In Mailman 2.1.x the LIST-admin
address is a deprecated synonym for the LIST-bounces address. If you
want to reach the list administrators, the address to use is
LIST-owner.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct  6 05:41:11 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 20:41:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Requests for Mailman drop in my mailbox
In-Reply-To: <4344365C.7060302@arp-gmbh.de>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510052041110281c6adf584@msapiro>

Peter Riess wrote:
>
>I just started to install Mailman. The webinterface is running in the 
>meanwhile and confirmation requests will be send out. If the users are 
>confirming via webinterface it works. But if the users want to do 
>something with the mail interface these mails will fall into my mailbox 
>and will not be handled from mailman.
>
>I'm running a Linux with SuSE 9.3 at home but don't have a normal mail 
>server. I'm using fetchmail to poll my providers mail server and use 
>postfix for further processing together with cyrus imap.


I'm not sure how this is set up and as Brad says in another reply, the
details are really beyond the scope of this list, but here's what you
need to have happen.

Mail can be addressed to the following addresses:

LISTNAME at example.com
LISTNAME-admin at example.com
LISTNAME-bounces at example.com
LISTNAME-confirm at example.com
LISTNAME-join at example.com
LISTNAME-leave at example.com
LISTNAME-owner at example.com
LISTNAME-request at example.com
LISTNAME-subscribe at example.com
LISTNAME-unsubscribe at example.com

where LISTNAME is a list name and example.com is your email domain. For
any mail the is sent with envelope to any of the above addresses, when
it reaches the box with your Mailman installation, it must be piped to
the mail wrapper with the respective action and list arguments as
follows:

|path_to/mail/mailman post LISTNAME
|path_to/mail/mailman admin LISTNAME
|path_to/mail/mailman bounces LISTNAME
|path_to/mail/mailman confirm LISTNAME
|path_to/mail/mailman join LISTNAME
|path_to/mail/mailman leave LISTNAME
|path_to/mail/mailman owner LISTNAME
|path_to/mail/mailman request LISTNAME
|path_to/mail/mailman subscribe LISTNAME
|path_to/mail/mailman unsubscribe LISTNAME

Note that it is the envelope recipient that should determine the action
and listname arguments, not any To: or other header in the message.

Normally, this is done via aliases in the incoming MTA of the form

LISTNAME: "|path_to/mail/mailman post LISTNAME"
LISTNAME-admin: "|path_to/mail/mailman admin LISTNAME"
etc.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct  6 05:56:24 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 20:56:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need help with a mailman archiving issue
In-Reply-To: <7ff9c2a10510051716m34748dcaodd072406619ade6b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510052056240328e68be920@msapiro>

Svend Sorensen wrote:

>On 10/5/05, Richard Feltham wrote:
>> Some time ago, we upgraded to mailman 2.1.5
>> We recently discovered that the web archives have not been updated since.
>> (It is dumping the email in the mboxes fine. It's just not building the web
>> links)
>>
>> I have been scratching my head reading documents trying to figure out what
>> happened.
>> Is there supposed to be a nightly cron job that updates the archives, that
>> we are missing?
>
>There is: http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node41.html



Yes, but the only cron that has to do with archives is the
'nightly_gzip' which compresses the text mbox format file. No cron is
involved in updating the HTML archives with new posts. That is
supposed to happen on the fly as posts are received and processed.



>
>> I can run ./mailman/bin/arch <listname> and it will build the archives for
>> the web interface.
>>
>> What is the proper procedure to build web links for *all* lists?
>> Is there an antry in mm_cfg.py that I am missing that is disabling the
>> building of the web links? Or is there an entry that *should* be there that
>> is not?


ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 2

is the correct setting for archiving to the list's global mbox file and
the HTML archives. This is the default setting in Defaults.py. If you
have it set to 1 in mm_cfg.py, that would explain your symptom.

Also, the following default settings should not be changed

PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = No
PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = No

If this does not explain the problem, it may be a permission issue or ??

Check Mailman's 'error' log for any reports of errors from the archiver.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct  6 06:35:10 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 21:35:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on FreeBSD 5.4 problem
In-Reply-To: <E48065832D2F9394B338C2C5@[192.168.10.249]>
Message-ID: <PC174020051005213510010916862e97@msapiro>

Sasa Stupar wrote:
>
>--On 4. oktober 2005 15:42 -0700 Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
>> This is likely still a smrsh issue. Have you seen and followed
>> http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node32.html
>
>Yes. I have seen this. On my system:
>---------------
># grep smrsh /etc/mail/sendmail.cf
>#####  $Id: smrsh.m4,v 8.14 1999/11/18 05:06:23 ca Exp $  #####
>Mprog,          P=3D/usr/sbin/smrsh, F=3DlsDFMoqeu9, S=3DEnvFromL/HdrFromL, =
>
>R=3DEnvToL/HdrToL, D=3D$z:/,
>                A=3Dsmrsh -c $u
>---------------
>
># strings /usr/sbin/smrsh | less
>/usr/libexec/sm.bin
>
>-------------------
># cd /usr/libexec/sm.bin/
># ll
>total 0
>lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  31 Oct  4 09:53 mailman ->=20
>/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
>--------------------
>
>Any other idea?

What I can tell you is this. The error message

-----
Failure to find group name mailnull.  Try adding this group
to your system, or re-run configure, providing an
existing group name with the command line option --with-mail-gid.
-----

comes from the function check_caller in src/common.c which contains
some support functions used by the wrappers. The name 'mailnull' in
this message is actually the --with-mail-gid configured group name,
not the actual group that invoked the wrapper.

check_caller is doing the following:

        GID_T mygid = getgid();
        struct group *mygroup = getgrgid(mygid);

GID_T is set from GETGROUPS_T which in turn is defined in src/Makefile
(as gid_t on my system). The types gid_t and group are defined in
<grp.h> which is included via src/common.h.

getgid() is a c library function that gets the actual numeric parent
group id and getgrgid() gets the group structure from the numeric id.

The above message is issued if getgrgid() returns a null pointer. Thus
it really means not that mailnull is not a registered group, but
rather that the group id that smrsh used to invoke the wrapper is not
a registered group.

Either it is true that smrsh is invoking the wrapper as an unregistered
group or something in your OS and/or C library is not working right.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From xma at uclink.berkeley.edu  Thu Oct  6 07:46:30 2005
From: xma at uclink.berkeley.edu (Xiaoyan Ma)
Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 22:46:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Documentations on Mailman package
In-Reply-To: <p06200724bf69c6f6e71f@[172.16.1.3]>
References: <web-10715430@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>
	<p06200703bf5558c21b6f@[10.0.1.210]>
	<web-11476083@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>
	<p06200724bf69c6f6e71f@[172.16.1.3]>
Message-ID: <web-11545149@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>

Are there documentations on how the Mailman package is organized? I am learning Python and would 
like to understand how the Mailman package, modules are organized.  I found docs on how to use 
Mailman as a site admin, list owner/subscriber, but have not found any docs on the package itself.
Thanks.
Xiaoyan


From stephen at xemacs.org  Thu Oct  6 10:21:58 2005
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 17:21:58 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unknown encoding crashes qrunner
In-Reply-To: <20051005093111.I85121@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh> (Ivan Fetch's
	message of "Wed, 05 Oct 2005 10:01:12 -0600 (MDT)")
References: <20051005093111.I85121@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
Message-ID: <87k6groy1l.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Ivan" == Ivan Fetch <ifetch at du.edu> writes:

    Ivan> I'm confused as to why the unknown encoding is "unknown" -
    Ivan> can someone shed light on this?

Probably because some less-than-conformant agent put that literal
string in a Content-Type header.  Try grepping the spool for
"charset=unknown" (or just "unknown") and look carefully at the
message found.  I've seen that "charset" in spam messages (at least).

BTW, from Mailman's (actually, Mailman just passes the buck to Python)
point of view, it's unknown because there is no codec (character
encoder/decoder modules) for a charset named "unknown".  You'd run
into the same thing if the charset were, say, "hellspark".  I get this
kind of thing all the time (in a different Python application) because
Mac OS X defaults to "X-Mac-Japanese" in my locale.  :-(


-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From phcalama at solstice.uwaterloo.ca  Thu Oct  6 13:34:23 2005
From: phcalama at solstice.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Calamai)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 07:34:23 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman newbie admin deletes
	customization/configuration - Please help
Message-ID: <FACFC6E4-7142-463F-BEDC-548119AA7556@solstice.uwaterloo.ca>

After spending hours one day configuring two mailing lists and custom
editing the General List Information Pages for these two
mailing lists I managed (don't ask) to blow everything away a couple
of days later. The good news is that my server gets backed up
daily. The bad news is that I have no idea where this information
gets stored. If anyone can point me in the correct direction I would
be very grateful.

For what it matters, I'm running mailman on a dual processor G5 Power
Mac running Mac OS X Server v10.4.2

Thanks
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users% 
40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ 
phcalama%40solstice.uwaterloo.ca

Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp




From tellme at climbtothestars.org  Thu Oct  6 13:45:06 2005
From: tellme at climbtothestars.org (Tara Star)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 13:45:06 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] template encoding problems (resolution)
Message-ID: <FB85738E-D804-43DA-84C9-B9EA210CB445@climbtothestars.org>

Hi!

After successfully converting my web interface to utf-8, here is how  
I dealt with the templates:

in mailman/templates :

mkdir frutf8 # I'm interested in French
cd fr
for x in `ls`
do
iconv -f iso-8859-1 -t utf8 $x > ../frutf8/$x
done

check, and there all there is to do is

rm -rf fr
mv frutf8 fr

And there we are! Hope this can be useful to others.

Steph

--
http://climbtothestars.org/
http://stephanie-booth.com/
http://flickr.com/photos/bunny/






From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct  6 16:06:32 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 07:06:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman newbie admin
	deletescustomization/configuration - Please help
In-Reply-To: <FACFC6E4-7142-463F-BEDC-548119AA7556@solstice.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <PC174020051006070632001542771b6f@msapiro>

Paul Calamai wrote:

>After spending hours one day configuring two mailing lists and custom
>editing the General List Information Pages for these two
>mailing lists I managed (don't ask) to blow everything away a couple
>of days later. The good news is that my server gets backed up
>daily. The bad news is that I have no idea where this information
>gets stored. If anyone can point me in the correct direction I would
>be very grateful.


The list configuration, membership, member options, etc. are all in
lists/<listname>/config.pck (or lists/<listname>/config.db in 2.1.4
and earlier).

The customized list information template is
lists/<listname>/<language>/listinfo.html

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Oct  6 16:53:22 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 16:53:22 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Documentations on Mailman package
In-Reply-To: <web-11545149@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>
References: <web-10715430@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>
	<p06200703bf5558c21b6f@[10.0.1.210]>
	<web-11476083@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>
	<p06200724bf69c6f6e71f@[172.16.1.3]>
	<web-11545149@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <p06200730bf6aeab3551a@[172.16.1.3]>

At 10:46 PM -0700 2005-10-05, Xiaoyan Ma wrote:

>  Are there documentations on how the Mailman package is organized? I
>  am learning Python and would like to understand how the Mailman
>  package, modules are organized.  I found docs on how to use Mailman as
>  a site admin, list owner/subscriber, but have not found any docs on
>  the package itself.

	It sounds like you've found all the documentation that exists. 
As for the rest, well Python is supposed to be largely 
self-documenting....

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From sasa at stupar.homelinux.net  Thu Oct  6 18:22:59 2005
From: sasa at stupar.homelinux.net (Sasa Stupar)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 18:22:59 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on FreeBSD 5.4 problem [SOLVED]
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051005213510010916862e97@msapiro>
References: <PC174020051005213510010916862e97@msapiro>
Message-ID: <EE3A460F50F4AE4EF25187EF@[192.168.10.249]>

The problem is solved. There were issues with sendmail and  freebsd port.
Now it is all working fine.

Sasa
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From ifetch at du.edu  Thu Oct  6 19:04:59 2005
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 11:04:59 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unknown encoding crashes qrunner
In-Reply-To: <87k6groy1l.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <20051005093111.I85121@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
	<87k6groy1l.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20051006110006.S9331@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>

Hi Stephen - thanks for replying!


    In your experience, has this stopped Mailman from processing incoming 
messages?  After soem further investigation, I've seen these same errors 
take place, yet Mailman continues processing messages.  This makes me 
wonder if what ever is affecting qrunner(s) isn't something else...


Thanks,
- Ivan.

On Thu, 6 Oct 2005, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>>>>>> "Ivan" == Ivan Fetch <ifetch at du.edu> writes:
>
>    Ivan> I'm confused as to why the unknown encoding is "unknown" -
>    Ivan> can someone shed light on this?
>
> Probably because some less-than-conformant agent put that literal
> string in a Content-Type header.  Try grepping the spool for
> "charset=unknown" (or just "unknown") and look carefully at the
> message found.  I've seen that "charset" in spam messages (at least).
>
> BTW, from Mailman's (actually, Mailman just passes the buck to Python)
> point of view, it's unknown because there is no codec (character
> encoder/decoder modules) for a charset named "unknown".  You'd run
> into the same thing if the charset were, say, "hellspark".  I get this
> kind of thing all the time (in a different Python application) because
> Mac OS X defaults to "X-Mac-Japanese" in my locale.  :-(
>
>
> -- 
> School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
> University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
>               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
>              ask what your business can "do for" free software.
>


From xma at uclink.berkeley.edu  Thu Oct  6 20:04:45 2005
From: xma at uclink.berkeley.edu (Xiaoyan Ma)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 11:04:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Documentations on Mailman package
In-Reply-To: <p06200730bf6aeab3551a@[172.16.1.3]>
References: <web-10715430@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>
	<p06200703bf5558c21b6f@[10.0.1.210]>
	<web-11476083@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>
	<p06200724bf69c6f6e71f@[172.16.1.3]>
	<web-11545149@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>
	<p06200730bf6aeab3551a@[172.16.1.3]>
Message-ID: <web-11211739@calmail-be3.berkeley.edu>

Well, in case I have questions, (I am sure I will), is this the right list to post?
Thanks.
Xiaoyan

On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 16:53:22 +0200
  Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote:
> At 10:46 PM -0700 2005-10-05, Xiaoyan Ma wrote:
> 
>>  Are there documentations on how the Mailman package is organized? I
>>  am learning Python and would like to understand how the Mailman
>>  package, modules are organized.  I found docs on how to use Mailman as
>>  a site admin, list owner/subscriber, but have not found any docs on
>>  the package itself.
> 
> 	It sounds like you've found all the documentation that exists. As for the rest, well Python is 
>supposed to be largely self-documenting....
> 
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
> 
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
> 
>     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
> 
>   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.



From richard.feltham at ca.mci.com  Thu Oct  6 20:06:39 2005
From: richard.feltham at ca.mci.com (Richard Feltham)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 11:06:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need help with a mailman archiving issue
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510052056240328e68be920@msapiro>
Message-ID: <auto-000030832019@ca.mci.com>

I have:

ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 2
PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = No
PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = No

There are no errors in the logs related to archiving.

If there was a permissions error, wouldn't the arch <listname> fail when run
as the mailman user? It is running successfully at this time.

I am getting a large chunk of
SHUNTING: 1128243796.8916991+691c72ec041f52f3e9395829b8c94be6a13ee3f27
Uncaught runner exception: unknown encoding
Traceback (most recent call last):

in the logs. Not much else.

Is there a way to bump the logging for the archiving?

Richard F.




From manuelk at fibertel.com.ar  Thu Oct  6 22:11:28 2005
From: manuelk at fibertel.com.ar (Manuel Kissoyan)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 17:11:28 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachements question
References: <01ff01c5c38d$eff5b6f0$6401a8c0@sarna>
	<p06200713bf5f4add2b27@[10.0.1.210]>
Message-ID: <03ce01c5cab2$3a3d1c00$6401a8c0@sarna>

hi!

Where exactly are saved the atatchement files, also in which format uencoded 
or just like the original attachement file?

thank you in advance!









> At 3:04 PM -0300 2005-09-27, Manuel Kissoyan wrote:
>
>>  My question is, how long are these files saved for people to download
>
> They are saved until some other process comes along to clean them out.
>
>> 
>> and
>>  are they automatically deleted after a while?
>
> That's not part of the standard cron jobs, no.
>
>>                                                 Is there a way for me
>>  to manually go in and delete them so they dont build up and take up
>>  server space?
>
> Sure, you can go manually delete them.  Or you can set up a cron job to go 
> delete any attachments more than a certain age.
>
>>                 Im assuming they self delete after a while because
>>  clicking on one of the link now indicates its not there."
>
> That implies that something else is going on.  There is no standard cron 
> job that I know of to clean out the old attachments.
>
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
>
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
>
>     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
>
>   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
> 




From labs at ixopusada.com  Thu Oct  6 22:51:59 2005
From: labs at ixopusada.com (Dirk van Oosterbosch, IR labs)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 22:51:59 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Troubleshooting install: dealing with 10.0.0.n
	(local server address)
Message-ID: <77991cfda865c6bae2dee7d148aeea82@ixopusada.com>

Hi All,

I've hit a couple of problems, when trying to install Mailman on my 
server. Let's start with the biggest stumbling block:
I cannot get the web interface to work from the local network where the 
server is running.

I configured mailman with my subdomain host name, like this:
	DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mysubdomain.ourdomain.com'
	DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mysubdomain.ourdomain.com'
	add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
(in mm_cfg.py)

However when I want to access my server from my local network, I have 
to go to http://10.0.0.n/ (where n is always the same static number), 
because my router would not understand 
http://mysubdomain.ourdomain.com. (The router forwards all the needed 
ports to 10.0.0.n and the server knows it is mysubdomain.ourdomain.com 
to the outside world). This delivers no problems with any of my 
applications so far. Until now. http://10.0.0.n/mailman/admin returns a 
page and also http://10.0.0.n/mailman/create shows the returns the 
right page, but all the links on those pages refer to 
mysubdomain.ourdomain.com instead of 10.0.0.n. Also the buttons 
("submit changes" or "create list") post to mysubdomain.ourdomain.com, 
which renders the web interface useless.

Is there anyway I can keep these default email and url hosts and still 
have those web interface pages respond correctly browsing them through 
10.0.0.n?

dirk

-----------------------------
Dirk van Oosterbosch
de Wittenstraat 225
1052 AT Amsterdam
the Netherlands

http://labs.ixopusada.com
-----------------------------




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Oct  6 22:42:29 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 22:42:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Documentations on Mailman package
In-Reply-To: <web-11211739@calmail-be3.berkeley.edu>
References: <web-10715430@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>
	<p06200703bf5558c21b6f@[10.0.1.210]>
	<web-11476083@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>
	<p06200724bf69c6f6e71f@[172.16.1.3]>
	<web-11545149@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>
	<p06200730bf6aeab3551a@[172.16.1.3]>
	<web-11211739@calmail-be3.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <p06200736bf6b3c745427@[172.16.1.3]>

At 11:04 AM -0700 2005-10-06, Xiaoyan Ma wrote:

>  Well, in case I have questions, (I am sure I will), is this the right list
>  to post?

	If you want to talk about Mailman operations, yes.  If you want 
to talk about development with respect to Mailman, you want the 
mailman-developers mailing list.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct  7 04:26:15 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 19:26:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need help with a mailman archiving issue
In-Reply-To: <auto-000030832019@ca.mci.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510061926150296985d65b7@msapiro>

Richard Feltham wrote:
>
>There are no errors in the logs related to archiving.
>
>If there was a permissions error, wouldn't the arch <listname> fail when run
>as the mailman user? It is running successfully at this time.


Probably, but there are possible pathological cases where it could
succeed and yet the the qrunner process could fail.


>I am getting a large chunk of
>SHUNTING: 1128243796.8916991+691c72ec041f52f3e9395829b8c94be6a13ee3f27
>Uncaught runner exception: unknown encoding
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>
>in the logs. Not much else.

What is the traceback (or tracebacks if they aren't all the same)
associated with these errors? This may or may not be significant to
your issue.

In any case, you now have a large collection of messages in
qfiles/shunt/. There is a question about what to do about them.
Normally, you would figure out what is causing the messages to be
shunted, fix that and run bin/unshunt to reprocess the shunted
messages, but if these are the 'unarchived' messages, you've already
added (some of) them to the archive with bin/arch so you don't want to
reprocess those.

Please let us see the tracebacks and we may be able to help diagnose
the problem and suggest a course of action.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct  7 05:18:36 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 20:18:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachements question
In-Reply-To: <03ce01c5cab2$3a3d1c00$6401a8c0@sarna>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510062018360921799bf1dd@msapiro>

Manuel Kissoyan wrote:
>
>Where exactly are saved the atatchement files, also in which format uencoded 
>or just like the original attachement file?

Scrubbed attachments are stored in the directory
archives/private/<listname>/attachments. In most cases, they are just
the original attachment (decoded from the MIME
Content-Transfer-Encoding:), but in the case of scrubbed HTML parts,
the format depends on the mm_cfg.py setting of ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER.

The default is to store HTML attachments 'HTML escaped' which means
things like <, > and & are replaced with &lt;, &gt; and &amp;
respectively so that opening the attachment in a web browser shows
effectively the source HTML rather than the rendered page.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct  7 05:54:26 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 20:54:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Troubleshooting install: dealing with
	10.0.0.n(local server address)
In-Reply-To: <77991cfda865c6bae2dee7d148aeea82@ixopusada.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510062054260125799beeb7@msapiro>

Dirk van Oosterbosch, IR labs wrote:
>
>I've hit a couple of problems, when trying to install Mailman on my 
>server. Let's start with the biggest stumbling block:
>I cannot get the web interface to work from the local network where the 
>server is running.
>
>I configured mailman with my subdomain host name, like this:
>	DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'mysubdomain.ourdomain.com'
>	DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'mysubdomain.ourdomain.com'
>	add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>(in mm_cfg.py)
>
>However when I want to access my server from my local network, I have 
>to go to http://10.0.0.n/ (where n is always the same static number), 
>because my router would not understand 
>http://mysubdomain.ourdomain.com. (The router forwards all the needed 
>ports to 10.0.0.n and the server knows it is mysubdomain.ourdomain.com 
>to the outside world). This delivers no problems with any of my 
>applications so far. Until now. http://10.0.0.n/mailman/admin returns a 
>page and also http://10.0.0.n/mailman/create shows the returns the 
>right page, but all the links on those pages refer to 
>mysubdomain.ourdomain.com instead of 10.0.0.n. Also the buttons 
>("submit changes" or "create list") post to mysubdomain.ourdomain.com, 
>which renders the web interface useless.
>
>Is there anyway I can keep these default email and url hosts and still 
>have those web interface pages respond correctly browsing them through 
>10.0.0.n?

You will need to modify source to make everything work.

I am guessing you have VIRTUAL_HOSTS_OVERVIEW = Off or No in mm_cfg.py
although you don't mention it above. This enables several things which
will cease working if you remove this or set it On.

Among the things which won't work are:

http://10.0.0.n/mailman/admin and http://10.0.0.n/mailman/listinfo will
not show any lists unless you "add_virtual_host('10.0.0.n',
'10.0.0.n')" and then it will show those lists created in the 10.0.0.n
domain, but these in turn will not show on the
http://mysubdomain.ourdomain.com/mailman/admin and
http://mysubdomain.ourdomain.com/mailman/listinfo pages.

You also won't be able to create lists from the
http://10.0.0.n/mailman/create page unless you
"add_virtual_host('10.0.0.n', '10.0.0.n')" and then those list will be
created in the 10.0.0.n domain.

However, I think if you do remove VIRTUAL_HOSTS_OVERVIEW from
mm_cfg.py, then the links in the admin interface will reflect the host
domain in the invoking URL.

Of course, if you don't have VIRTUAL_HOSTS_OVERVIEW = Off or No in
mm_cfg.py (and haven't changed it in Defaults.py which you should
never do), then I don't know what I'm talking about and you can ignore
this post.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct  7 06:41:50 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 21:41:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unknown encoding crashes qrunner
In-Reply-To: <20051006110006.S9331@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510062141500406799befe8@msapiro>

Ivan Fetch wrote:
>
>On Thu, 6 Oct 2005, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
>
>>>>>>> "Ivan" == Ivan Fetch <ifetch at du.edu> writes:
>>
>>    Ivan> I'm confused as to why the unknown encoding is "unknown" -
>>    Ivan> can someone shed light on this?
>>
>> Probably because some less-than-conformant agent put that literal
>> string in a Content-Type header.  Try grepping the spool for
>> "charset=unknown" (or just "unknown") and look carefully at the
>> message found.  I've seen that "charset" in spam messages (at least).

Actually, the originally posted error trace shows the error occurring
in CookHeaders.py in the attempt to add the subject prefix to the
subject header, so in this case, the 'unknown' character set would not
have been specified in a Content-Type: header, but rather in an RFC
2047 encoding of the message subject.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From xma at uclink.berkeley.edu  Fri Oct  7 07:45:04 2005
From: xma at uclink.berkeley.edu (Xiaoyan Ma)
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 22:45:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hide lists from listinfo page only (leave on
 admin page)
In-Reply-To: <p06200724bf69c6f6e71f@[172.16.1.3]>
References: <web-10715430@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>
	<p06200703bf5558c21b6f@[10.0.1.210]>
	<web-11476083@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>
	<p06200724bf69c6f6e71f@[172.16.1.3]>
Message-ID: <web-11294461@calmail-be2.berkeley.edu>

Each semester we create a few hundreds course mailing lists, prepopulate them, and delete them by 
the end of the semester.  If we want to hide these lists from the listinfo page only, can I modify 
the listinfo.py file, store the name of these lists in an arrey say called "notshowns" and then 
add a logic right after "listnames.sort()", for name in listnames but not in notshowns ....

.....
for name in listnames:(but not in notshowns)
      mlist = MailList.MailList(name, lock=0)
         if mlist.advertised:
             if mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW
              mlist.web_page_url.find(hostname) == -1:
                 # List is for different identity of this host - skip it.
                 continue
             else:
                 advertised.append((mlist.GetScriptURL('listinfo'),
                                    mlist.real_name,
                                    mlist.description))
...

1. Is it safe to modify the logic of this file?
2. What will happen during upgrades?

BTW, there is a ../mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo file:

.../mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo: setgid ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for 
GNU/Linux 2.2.5, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped

The size of this file seems to stay the same after the listinfo.py has been modified. How is this 
file related to listinfo.py file?

Thanks.
Xiaoyan

On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 20:11:33 +0200
  Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote:
> At 10:16 PM -0700 2005-10-04, Xiaoyan Ma wrote:
> 
>>  I have submitted the new feature request as you suggested. As for
>>  applying patches, I don't know how it will affect upgrades.
> 
> 	That could be a problem, yes.
> 
>>                                                               Do you
>>  normally need to un-patch before upgrade and then re-apply patches?
> 
> 	I don't normally try to do that, no.  But then, I don't normally need to apply patches to my 
>Mailman installations, either.
> 
>>  I would like to learn from other people on the list about how to
>>  organize large number of lists.
> 
> 	There are some postings from people who maintain the lists for freebsd.org or lists.apple.com 
>that you will find in the archives, some of which are also linked from the Mailman FAQ Wizard -- 
>search for "performance", and you should see all the ones that are linked.
> 
> 	There's definitely a lot of wisdom encapsulated in these various posts.  I would encourage you 
>to read all these FAQ entries and messages, and then ask any further questions you may have.
> 
>>                     Mailman's listinfo/admin page simply displays all lists
>>  from a-z (unless they are hidden).  When there are hundreds of lists, it is
>>  not easy to find the list you for are looking for and once you find it you
>>  can not tell if you can subscribe to it.
> 
> 	This is an area of the Mailman user interface that could use improvement, yes.  For the moment, 
>try using the "find" feature within your browser.
> 
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
> 
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
> 
>     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
> 
>   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.



From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Oct  7 09:48:51 2005
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 16:48:51 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unknown encoding crashes qrunner
In-Reply-To: <20051006110006.S9331@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh> (Ivan Fetch's
	message of "Thu, 06 Oct 2005 11:04:59 -0600 (MDT)")
References: <20051005093111.I85121@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
	<87k6groy1l.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<20051006110006.S9331@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
Message-ID: <87br21n4ws.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Ivan" == Ivan Fetch <ifetch at du.edu> writes:

    Ivan>     In your experience, has this stopped Mailman from
    Ivan> processing incoming messages?  After soem further
    Ivan> investigation, I've seen these same errors take place, yet
    Ivan> Mailman continues processing messages.  This makes me wonder
    Ivan> if what ever is affecting qrunner(s) isn't something else...

In some cases charset errors have stopped Mailman (not my experience,
but reports on the list).  It's been a while, so I don't recall exact
details and the most recent version (2.1.6) is significantly more
robust to charset problems.

However, any error by definition puts Mailman in an unexpected state.
If you can't directly connect stoppage to those errors, then you'd
better keep looking for alternatives.  I'm not so confident of 2.1.6
that I'd say upgrading immediately is your best bet (but it could help).

Sorry I can't be more precise.

Steve

-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Oct  7 09:58:05 2005
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 16:58:05 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Documentations on Mailman package
In-Reply-To: <p06200730bf6aeab3551a@[172.16.1.3]> (Brad Knowles's message of
	"Thu, 6 Oct 2005 16:53:22 +0200")
References: <web-10715430@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>
	<p06200703bf5558c21b6f@[10.0.1.210]>
	<web-11476083@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>
	<p06200724bf69c6f6e71f@[172.16.1.3]>
	<web-11545149@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>
	<p06200730bf6aeab3551a@[172.16.1.3]>
Message-ID: <877jcpn4he.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Brad" == Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> writes:

    Brad> At 10:46 PM -0700 2005-10-05, Xiaoyan Ma wrote:

    >> Are there documentations on how the Mailman package is
    >> organized? I am learning Python and would like to understand
    >> how the Mailman package, modules are organized.  I found docs
    >> on how to use Mailman as a site admin, list owner/subscriber,
    >> but have not found any docs on the package itself.

    Brad> 	It sounds like you've found all the documentation that
    Brad> exists. As for the rest, well Python is supposed to be
    Brad> largely self-documenting....

If you've got a capable workstation, then

cd /path/to/mailman
pydoc -p 4242

and open http://localhost:4242/ in your favorite browser is likely to
be very helpful.  I haven't tried it yet on Mailman, but it has been
very effective on some of my own small projects.  You may need to
descend into subdirectories before starting pydoc.  pydoc -g might
work the same way, but with a built-in browser.  I haven't tried that
either, I like my Firefox.


-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From sbalsen at taconic.net  Sun Oct  9 02:53:39 2005
From: sbalsen at taconic.net (Sy Balsen)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 20:53:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate mailings!!!
Message-ID: <BF6DE253.F5D%sbalsen@taconic.net>

My list is set up as announce only and is hosted by a commercial web hosting
company. The problem is, every post is received in many duplicates (up to 11
or 12!) by all the recipients! Anyone have any idea what might be going on
and how to solve the problem?
Thanks!
Sy



From jrlamar at owu.edu  Fri Oct  7 15:00:38 2005
From: jrlamar at owu.edu (Jason LaMar)
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 09:00:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman capacity?
Message-ID: <BF6BE9B6.E88B%jrlamar@owu.edu>

We're creating a list with roughly 15,000 recipients. Can Mailman handle
this? And will the system "throttle" delivery of messages -- which should
only take place once a week, from the moderator -- to such a large list?

Jason

_________________________

Jason LaMar
Interim Director of Information Services
Libraries and Information Services
Ohio Wesleyan University; Delaware, OH 43015
Tel: 740-368-3131, Fax: 740-368-3272, Web: http://www.owu.edu/




From brianloomis1 at mac.com  Fri Oct  7 16:52:54 2005
From: brianloomis1 at mac.com (Brian Loomis)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 08:52:54 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] disaster strike
Message-ID: <589840D8-197D-453F-98F7-4D94FF5A8A1C@mac.com>

I'm sure everyone has experienced this, the messages that go out to  
everyone that aren't meant to.

We have been testing an environmental list for several months with 12  
- 16 users that seemed to be going fine.

However on launch we found that of our user base of 5000 people,  
hundreds had vacation messages showing up and all kinds of traffic  
that we had not anticipated.  Our mailman list is also mailing out  
the local address for the machine in all the links it send out.

I'm looking for someone or something somewhere to help us with a  
standard group of setting that people normally use to filter and  
admin their lists, how to deal with everything etc.

Any help would be appreciated.

Brian Loomis
brianloomis1 at earthlink.net


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct  7 18:36:00 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 09:36:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate mailings!!!
In-Reply-To: <BF6DE253.F5D%sbalsen@taconic.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510070936000703d271771f@msapiro>

Sy Balsen wrote:

>My list is set up as announce only and is hosted by a commercial web hosting
>company. The problem is, every post is received in many duplicates (up to 11
>or 12!) by all the recipients! Anyone have any idea what might be going on
>and how to solve the problem?

You could check the Mailman 'smtp' and 'smtp-failure' logs for clues,
but it is likely that Mailman is not involved in this. It is more
likely an outgoing MTA issue.

In the past, I had a report from one user who occasionally received
duplicates and once even a triplicate of a post. This appeared to be
an issue between the outgoing MTA (sendmail, I don't know the version)
and his receiving MTA. For unrelated reasons, our hosting service
moved our domain to a different hardware box that had a newer version
of sendmail, and the problem went away.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct  7 19:12:48 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 10:12:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hide lists from listinfo page only (leave
	onadmin page)
In-Reply-To: <web-11294461@calmail-be2.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510071012480593d27176e1@msapiro>

Xiaoyan Ma wrote:

>Each semester we create a few hundreds course mailing lists, prepopulate them, and delete them by 
>the end of the semester.  If we want to hide these lists from the listinfo page only, can I modify 
>the listinfo.py file, store the name of these lists in an arrey say called "notshowns" and then 
>add a logic right after "listnames.sort()", for name in listnames but not in notshowns ....
>
>.....
>for name in listnames:(but not in notshowns)


Presumably this is pseudocode. It's not Python. Python might be

for name in listnames:
      if name in notshowns:
          continue


>      mlist = MailList.MailList(name, lock=0)
>         if mlist.advertised:
>             if mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW
>              mlist.web_page_url.find(hostname) == -1:
>                 # List is for different identity of this host - skip it.
>                 continue
>             else:
>                 advertised.append((mlist.GetScriptURL('listinfo'),
>                                    mlist.real_name,
>                                    mlist.description))
>...
>
>1. Is it safe to modify the logic of this file?


Yes (as long as you don't make a mistake :-), but see 2.


>2. What will happen during upgrades?


The upgrade listinfo.py will replace the one with your changes. You
will have to remake your changes in the new file.


>BTW, there is a ../mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo file:
>
>.../mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo: setgid ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for 
>GNU/Linux 2.2.5, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped
>
>The size of this file seems to stay the same after the listinfo.py has been modified. How is this 
>file related to listinfo.py file?


This and all the files in cgi-bin/ are the security wrappers which are
invoked directly by the web server. They perform a few checks and then
call the corresponding Python module in Mailman/Cgi via the
scripts/driver script. The source for these files is in
src/cgi-wrapper.c and src/common.[ch]

There may be other ways to do this that don't require maintenance of a
separate list. E.g., you could modify admin.py to display all lists
regardless of the setting of advertised. Then lists with advertised
set to No would be displayed on the admin overview but not the
listinfo overview.

Also, what is the goal? If it is simply to avoid 'clutter' on the
listinfo overview but still allow 'one click' access to the admin
page, then you may be on the right track, but if you are trying to
actually 'hide' the existence or name of the lists, anyone can go to
the admin overview page and see them.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct  7 19:21:51 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 10:21:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman capacity?
In-Reply-To: <BF6BE9B6.E88B%jrlamar@owu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510071021510156b87ca56f@msapiro>

Jason LaMar wrote:

>We're creating a list with roughly 15,000 recipients. Can Mailman handle
>this? And will the system "throttle" delivery of messages -- which should
>only take place once a week, from the moderator -- to such a large list?


Go to the FAQ wizard
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
and search for performance and for throttle.

Note that Mailman does no throttling, but the outgoing MTA might.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct  7 19:32:00 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 10:32:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] disaster strike
In-Reply-To: <589840D8-197D-453F-98F7-4D94FF5A8A1C@mac.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005100710320001562c81aebc@msapiro>

Brian Loomis wrote:
>
>However on launch we found that of our user base of 5000 people,  
>hundreds had vacation messages showing up and all kinds of traffic  
>that we had not anticipated.


Do you have reply_goes_to_list set to 'This list'? This is only one of
many reasons why this is not a good idea.

If not, is anonymous_list set to 'Yes'. This is usually only for
announcement lists where the members are all moderated, not for
discussion lists.


>Our mailman list is also mailing out  
>the local address for the machine in all the links it send out.
	

I don't understand what the issue is here. Can you be more specific?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From spelatta at post.rzn.ru  Fri Oct  7 20:40:44 2005
From: spelatta at post.rzn.ru (Victor Komarov)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 22:40:44 +0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email of message sender in Mailman 2.1.4 archive
	web page
Message-ID: <150a01c5cb6f$344d80b0$acef1ad4@speleoy9dy3jmh>

Hello.

There is email of message sender in archive web pages of Mailman 2.1.4 with @ changed to at.

There is no email of message sender in searchable archive web pages
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Maybe possible to hide of message sender in archive web pages of Mailman?

--
Victor Komarov  






From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct  7 20:56:55 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 11:56:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email of message sender in Mailman 2.1.4
	archiveweb page
In-Reply-To: <150a01c5cb6f$344d80b0$acef1ad4@speleoy9dy3jmh>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510071156550765d2717794@msapiro>

Victor Komarov wrote:
>
>There is email of message sender in archive web pages of Mailman 2.1.4 with @ changed to at.
>
>There is no email of message sender in searchable archive web pages
>http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Maybe possible to hide of message sender in archive web pages of Mailman?


The searchable archives at mail-archive.com are a third party external
archive which has nothing to do with Mailman per se.

The only 'e-mail address' control that is available for Mailman's
pipermail archive is ARCHIVER_OBSCURES_EMAILADDRS which when set to
Yes (the default) will replace '@' with ' at ' as you've observed.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ssorensen at gmail.com  Sat Oct  8 00:57:11 2005
From: ssorensen at gmail.com (Svend Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 15:57:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] All *-admin Addresses Bouncing
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510051847530734cceec7b3@msapiro>
References: <7ff9c2a10510051030n1bf24895off74994bcebf9580@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200510051847530734cceec7b3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <7ff9c2a10510071557g2ad93c6dg5c8679fcfe5f6564@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/5/05, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Svend Sorensen wrote:
>
> >All emails sent to LIST-admin@ are bouncing.  The sendmail alias for
> >LIST-admin is set up correctly, and from the logs, I can see it was
> >piped to Mailman.  I saw an old reference to this on the Mailman
> >lists, but I never found a fix.
>
> This is how it is supposed to work. In Mailman 2.1.x the LIST-admin
> address is a deprecated synonym for the LIST-bounces address. If you
> want to reach the list administrators, the address to use is
> LIST-owner.

I see.  Mailman still lists the *-admin aliases when creating a list,
so this behavior is somewhat confusing.  If *-admin is depreciated,
can all the *-admin aliases be removed?


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct  8 01:37:12 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 16:37:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] All *-admin Addresses Bouncing
In-Reply-To: <7ff9c2a10510071557g2ad93c6dg5c8679fcfe5f6564@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510071637120546ee5f614e@Notebook>

Svend Sorensen wrote:
>
>I see.  Mailman still lists the *-admin aliases when creating a list,
>so this behavior is somewhat confusing.  If *-admin is depreciated,
>can all the *-admin aliases be removed?


See the Note in the details for the admin->Bounce
processing->bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner Option for why this
alias is still created.

The question is why are users mailing this address (or are they)? If
you have pre 2.1 users who are mailing to that address because they
think it reaches a human, you can leave things as they are and be sure
bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner is set to Yes, and these
messages will reach the list owner, albeit indirectly. Alternatively,
you can change the alias to something like

LIST-admin: "|path_to/mail/mailman owner LIST

to send such messages mail directly to the owner(s).

If you're not concerned about receiving mail sent to this address, you
can safely delete the alias.

Nothing in mailman itself other than creation of the alias for
historical reasons refers to the LIST-admin address.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Oct  8 01:41:10 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 01:41:10 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] All *-admin Addresses Bouncing
In-Reply-To: <7ff9c2a10510071557g2ad93c6dg5c8679fcfe5f6564@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7ff9c2a10510051030n1bf24895off74994bcebf9580@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200510051847530734cceec7b3@msapiro>
	<7ff9c2a10510071557g2ad93c6dg5c8679fcfe5f6564@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06200741bf6cb7c40fed@[172.16.1.3]>

At 3:57 PM -0700 2005-10-07, Svend Sorensen wrote:

>  I see.  Mailman still lists the *-admin aliases when creating a list,
>  so this behavior is somewhat confusing.  If *-admin is depreciated,
>  can all the *-admin aliases be removed?

	If you're using Mailman 2.0.x, then you still need to keep those 
-admin addresses.  If you're using Mailman 2.1.x, then it sounds like 
you've got some scripts left over from a previous 2.0.x installation, 
and you need to get things cleaned up before you go too much longer.

	Once you're fully cleaned up and no 2.0.x scripts are left lying 
around, you can delete all the old -admin aliases.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brianloomis1 at mac.com  Sat Oct  8 05:31:56 2005
From: brianloomis1 at mac.com (Brian Loomis)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 21:31:56 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RegEx filters
Message-ID: <0BFE0924-657A-41A6-835A-04B6DE25BB94@mac.com>

I've spent the evening scouring the web for RegEx filters for  
Mailman, I can't seem to find anything useful, we're trying to keep  
people from replying to a list.

any links or syntax examples would be greatly appreciated.

Brian


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Oct  8 11:45:37 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 11:45:37 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RegEx filters
In-Reply-To: <0BFE0924-657A-41A6-835A-04B6DE25BB94@mac.com>
References: <0BFE0924-657A-41A6-835A-04B6DE25BB94@mac.com>
Message-ID: <p06200744bf6d4582485f@[172.16.1.3]>

At 9:31 PM -0600 2005-10-07, Brian Loomis wrote:

>  I've spent the evening scouring the web for RegEx filters for
>  Mailman, I can't seem to find anything useful, we're trying to keep
>  people from replying to a list.

	Mailman is written in Python, and uses Python regular 
expressions.  There should be plenty of information on the web for 
writing Python regular expressions.

	However, this probably isn't the best way to achieve your goals. 
Try reading and searching the Mailman FAQ Wizard before you go any 
further.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From bill at rtrc.net  Sat Oct  8 17:09:17 2005
From: bill at rtrc.net (William F. Hill, Jr.)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 11:09:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <20051008151044.26B2B1E4050@bag.python.org>

Is it possible to download the membership list?  If so, how?

When I go to my administration panel and select Membership Options I only
see members that are subscribed under the alphabetical heading.  I would
like to be able to see the whole list at once.  Is this possible?

Coram Deo,
William F. Hill, Jr.
http://www.rtrc.net
http://www.theparchment.org 




From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct  8 18:25:23 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 09:25:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Membership List
In-Reply-To: <20051008151044.26B2B1E4050@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402005100809252306252cbf1008@msapiro>

William F. Hill, Jr. wrote:

>Is it possible to download the membership list?  If so, how?
>
>When I go to my administration panel and select Membership Options I only
>see members that are subscribed under the alphabetical heading.  I would
>like to be able to see the whole list at once.  Is this possible?

You can send a 'who' command to the listname-request address or view
the roster (via the listinfo page or directly at something like
http://www.example.com/mailman/roster/listname). The problem is
neither of these shows 'hidden' members anthough the roster indicates
how many there are.

If you have access to the command line interface, you can use
bin/list_members to get the list and/or you can use bin/withlist to
set the lists admin_member_chunksize attribute to a number larger than
the list's total membership and then the Membership
Management...->Membership List will be all on one page.

If you don't have access to the command line, you can script the web
interface to automate retrieving the member list. See
http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#throughtheweb

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From scott at fyrenice.com  Sat Oct  8 19:18:58 2005
From: scott at fyrenice.com (Dr. Scott S. Jones)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 11:18:58 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fw: can't get replies back from list mailing...
Message-ID: <20051008171858.GB14439@xmission.com>


-- 

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct  8 20:35:39 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 11:35:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fw: can't get replies back from list mailing...
In-Reply-To: <20051008171858.GB14439@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005100811353901561cf1f703@msapiro>

Dr. Scott S. Jones wrote:
>
>-- 


I can only guess what your issue is since the bulk of your post was
stripped by content filtering, but perhaps that is the answer. Try
posting plain text only.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From steph at webfabbrica.com  Sat Oct  8 16:43:58 2005
From: steph at webfabbrica.com (Stephanie Westbrook)
Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2005 16:43:58 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam proof announcement style list
Message-ID: <4347F74E.18553.19A4A96@localhost>

Hi,

I've just configured my first announcement style list. There will only 
be a few people on the list without the moderator bit set and I have it 
set to hide the sender's address will default to "announce at dom.ain"

And I set it so that messages from non members are rejected and 
new members are always moderated.

Is this safe? Have I taken care of everything?

I read about having everyone moderated but don't really understand 
how it is supposed to work. If this is a better solution, could 
someone explain? Does it mean that the few people allowed to post 
on the list will have to go in and approve their messages each time?

Thanks,

Stephanie




From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct  8 21:28:57 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 12:28:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam proof announcement style list
In-Reply-To: <4347F74E.18553.19A4A96@localhost>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510081228570593e73ee7ea@msapiro>

Stephanie Westbrook wrote:
>
>I've just configured my first announcement style list. There will only 
>be a few people on the list without the moderator bit set and I have it 
>set to hide the sender's address will default to "announce at dom.ain"
>
>And I set it so that messages from non members are rejected and 
>new members are always moderated.
>
>Is this safe? Have I taken care of everything?


It is fairly safe, but it could be safer. The issue here is that anyone
can post by spoofing the address of one of the unmoderated posters.
Since you have the list set to anonymous, these addresses won't be
totally obvious, but they still might be available for example in the
"list run by" link at the bottom of the listinfo page.

Also, with various malware harvesting addresses from people's address
books it is even possible that some malware might mail itself to the
list while spoofing an authorized poster.


>I read about having everyone moderated but don't really understand 
>how it is supposed to work. If this is a better solution, could 
>someone explain? Does it mean that the few people allowed to post 
>on the list will have to go in and approve their messages each time?


This is the safer way to do it. Everyone is moderated and any ordinary
post will be rejected no matter who it is from. Authorized posters
need to know the list password and put the line

Approved: list_password

either as a header if their MUA allows this conveniently or as the
first body line of the post. This allows the post to go directly to
the list. Note that if you put the Approved: line in the body, follow
it with a blank line as at least some Mailman versions remove the
following line when removing the Approved: line.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From steph at webfabbrica.com  Sun Oct  9 09:48:48 2005
From: steph at webfabbrica.com (Stephanie Westbrook)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 09:48:48 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam proof announcement style list
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510081228570593e73ee7ea@msapiro>
References: <4347F74E.18553.19A4A96@localhost>
Message-ID: <4348E780.12688.359828@localhost>

Well, I tried using the Approved line method. But there were several 
problems. 

First, my mail client is pegasus 4.12a ono Win xp pro sp2. Mailman 
is 2.1.6.

Problem 1 is major. On my mailing list for the time being I have 
several of my own email addresses. They are setup as separate 
users (not separate identities) in pegasus. In some, but not all, I see 
the approved line with password, ie it was not removed from the 
message.

Problem 2 is less grave but still a problem. The message now 
arrives with a text attachment which is the footer for the mailing list. 
So you no longer see it as part of the message, but as a separate 
attachment. And since it contains info such as how to change list 
options, I'd rather have it there in plain sight.

At this point I will go back to hiding the sender.  

Thanks and comments appreciated.

Stephanie

On 8 Oct 2005 at 12:28, Mark Sapiro wrote:

Stephanie Westbrook wrote:
>
>I've just configured my first announcement style list. There will
>only be a few people on the list without the moderator bit set and I
>have it set to hide the sender's address will default to
>"announce at dom.ain"
>
>And I set it so that messages from non members are rejected and 
new
>members are always moderated.
>
>Is this safe? Have I taken care of everything?


It is fairly safe, but it could be safer. The issue here is that
anyone can post by spoofing the address of one of the unmoderated
posters. Since you have the list set to anonymous, these addresses
won't be totally obvious, but they still might be available for
example in the "list run by" link at the bottom of the listinfo page.

Also, with various malware harvesting addresses from people's 
address
books it is even possible that some malware might mail itself to the
list while spoofing an authorized poster.


>I read about having everyone moderated but don't really 
understand
>how it is supposed to work. If this is a better solution, could
>someone explain? Does it mean that the few people allowed to 
post on
>the list will have to go in and approve their messages each time?


This is the safer way to do it. Everyone is moderated and any 
ordinary
post will be rejected no matter who it is from. Authorized posters
need to know the list password and put the line

Approved: list_password

either as a header if their MUA allows this conveniently or as the
first body line of the post. This allows the post to go directly to
the list. Note that if you put the Approved: line in the body, follow
it with a blank line as at least some Mailman versions remove the
following line when removing the Approved: line.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers, 
San
Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan






From steph at webfabbrica.com  Sun Oct  9 09:55:33 2005
From: steph at webfabbrica.com (Stephanie Westbrook)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 09:55:33 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hiding sender on announce only
Message-ID: <4348E915.6179.3BC51A@localhost>

Hi,

I have a mailing list that should be of the announcement only type. I 
have it setup to hide the sender and there will only be a few of us 
with permission to post to the list.

So sender is hidden, reply to headers are stripped and reply to is set 
to explicit. 

The problem with this is that members will surely want to reply on 
occasion, to ask a question or comment. They wouldn't be replying 
to the list, of course (also because they can't) but to the admin of 
the organization. And they are used to being able to do this since 
the mailing list is currently just a distribution list in one members 
mail client. So messages to the list go out as "from at dom.ain" and 
people can just reply.

So unless the make sure to click the reply all in their mail client they 
will just be replying to the list. I have it set so that moderated 
members receive a nice message saying the list is read only and to 
communicate with the organization they need to write to 
from at dom.ain not the list. And I can explain all this in the first 
message that goes out.

But is there a better way?

Thanks,

Stephanie



From misha at wolfstar.ca  Sun Oct  9 10:18:03 2005
From: misha at wolfstar.ca (Michel Vaillancourt)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 04:18:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Debian Mailman Setup Question
Message-ID: <CNEELJMEAEBOFDFEELEPEECOCGAA.misha@wolfstar.ca>


	Hello to the list.  I am setting up my second mailman box;  this one is a
Debian 'Etch' installation.  It is a Postfix MTA, with two domains that I
wish to host lists for on the one box.  I am attempting to use the
'/var/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py' file as a Postfix transport
engine, per the instructions.  However, for some reason, I can't get Postfix
to accept mail for my testing list; it returns:

550 <wolfstar-test at ext2.wolfstar.ca>: Recipient address rejected: User
unknown in local recipient table

	I am presuming that there is a step that I have missed in the set-up, but I
can't for the life of me figure out what it is.  Can someone who has gotten
this working give me a shout and let me know what the "gotcha" is?  Many
thanks in advance.


	--Michel
	"...In a New York minute, Everything can change.
	In a New York minute, Nothing is the same..."
		-- Don Henley, Album - The End of the Innocence, 1989





From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct  9 16:30:23 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 07:30:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hiding sender on announce only
In-Reply-To: <4348E915.6179.3BC51A@localhost>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510090730230584cd92597f@msapiro>

Stephanie Westbrook wrote:
>
>So sender is hidden, reply to headers are stripped and reply to is set 
>to explicit. 

Yes, see below.

>The problem with this is that members will surely want to reply on 
>occasion, to ask a question or comment. They wouldn't be replying 
>to the list, of course (also because they can't) but to the admin of 
>the organization. And they are used to being able to do this since 
>the mailing list is currently just a distribution list in one members 
>mail client. So messages to the list go out as "from at dom.ain" and 
>people can just reply.
>
>So unless the make sure to click the reply all in their mail client they 
>will just be replying to the list.

Unless they have really pathological MUAs (e-mail clients), a simple
"reply" will go to the explicit address set in reply_to_address.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct  9 16:45:56 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 07:45:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam proof announcement style list
In-Reply-To: <4348E780.12688.359828@localhost>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510090745560162d1f1dada@msapiro>

Stephanie Westbrook wrote:
>
>Well, I tried using the Approved line method. But there were several 
>problems. 
>
>First, my mail client is pegasus 4.12a ono Win xp pro sp2. Mailman 
>is 2.1.6.
>
>Problem 1 is major. On my mailing list for the time being I have 
>several of my own email addresses. They are setup as separate 
>users (not separate identities) in pegasus. In some, but not all, I see 
>the approved line with password, ie it was not removed from the 
>message.


The approved: line is only processed/removed from the first text/plain
part. You are probably posting multipart/alternative and seeing the
approved: line in a text/html part. You probably are not posting
straight HTML or the approved: line wouldn't work at all.

You either need to set your mail client to send plain text only or you
need to turn on content filtering and strip the html part from posts.


>Problem 2 is less grave but still a problem. The message now 
>arrives with a text attachment which is the footer for the mailing list. 
>So you no longer see it as part of the message, but as a separate 
>attachment. And since it contains info such as how to change list 
>options, I'd rather have it there in plain sight.

This too is because your post is other than simple plain text. If you
post a simple, unencoded text/plain message in the character set of
the list, the footer will not be a separate part.

I don't know why this would be affected by whether or not you include
an approved: line in your post.

Note that many mail clients will show this 'attached' footer inline
anyway.

See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From misha at wolfstar.ca  Sun Oct  9 17:22:53 2005
From: misha at wolfstar.ca (Michel R Vaillancourt)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 11:22:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Debian & Postfix Mailman Config Issue
Message-ID: <434935CD.1030607@wolfstar.ca>


	Hello to the list!  I am setting up my second mailman box;  this one is 
a Debian 'Etch' installation.  It is a Postfix MTA, with two domains 
that I wish to host lists for on the one box.  I am attempting to use 
the '/var/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py' file as a Postfix 
transport engine, per the instructions.  However, for some reason, I 
can't get Postfix to accept mail for my testing list; it returns:

550 <wolfstar-test at ext2.wolfstar.ca>: Recipient address rejected: User 
unknown in local recipient table

	I am presuming that there is a step that I have missed in the set-up, 
but I can't for the life of me figure out what it is.  Can someone who 
has gotten this working give me a shout and let me know what the 
"gotcha" is?  Many thanks in advance.


-- 
	-- Michel Vaillancourt
	


From ben at nb-kreativ.de  Sun Oct  9 18:06:42 2005
From: ben at nb-kreativ.de (Benjamin Fleckenstein)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 18:06:42 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possible to change the address of a list?
Message-ID: <1128874002.12650.26.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Hi,

is it possible to change the address of a list?

Let me explain what I'm trying to do by giving a short example.

I got a liste named "lugab" (Linux User Group ...), so the addresses
of this list would be lugab at lugab.de, lugab-request at lugab.de

I know it is possible to create an alias so that list at lugab.de is
also a valid address for the mailinglist, but Mailman still writes
lugab-subscribe at lugab.de, etc. into the header of the mails and onto the
webinterface. Is it possible to tell Mailman - "Ok, the list is named
lugab, but the address have to start with list-" - without haveing to
change the real_name of the list to "list"?

Thanks for any help
Ben
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From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct  9 22:58:10 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 13:58:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Possible to change the address of a list?
In-Reply-To: <1128874002.12650.26.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <PC174020051009135810027254c3f5ba@msapiro>

Benjamin Fleckenstein wrote:
>
>is it possible to change the address of a list?
>
>Let me explain what I'm trying to do by giving a short example.
>
>I got a liste named "lugab" (Linux User Group ...), so the addresses
>of this list would be lugab at lugab.de, lugab-request at lugab.de
>
>I know it is possible to create an alias so that list at lugab.de is
>also a valid address for the mailinglist, but Mailman still writes
>lugab-subscribe at lugab.de, etc. into the header of the mails and onto the
>webinterface. Is it possible to tell Mailman - "Ok, the list is named
>lugab, but the address have to start with list-" - without haveing to
>change the real_name of the list to "list"?


Not without modifying source code.

See the entire thread beginning at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-September/046390.html
for a recent discussion of renaming a list.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct  9 23:23:34 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 14:23:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Debian & Postfix Mailman Config Issue
In-Reply-To: <434935CD.1030607@wolfstar.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510091423340678f370b828@msapiro>

Michel R Vaillancourt wrote:
>
>	Hello to the list!  I am setting up my second mailman box;  this one is 
>a Debian 'Etch' installation.  It is a Postfix MTA, with two domains 
>that I wish to host lists for on the one box.  I am attempting to use 
>the '/var/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py' file as a Postfix 
>transport engine, per the instructions.  However, for some reason, I 
>can't get Postfix to accept mail for my testing list; it returns:
>
>550 <wolfstar-test at ext2.wolfstar.ca>: Recipient address rejected: User 
>unknown in local recipient table


This is telling you that postfix doesn't know how to deliver this mail.
This is a Postfix configuration issue. Did you edit the three postfix
configuration files as described in the INSTALLATION section of the
comments at the beginning of postfix-to-mailman.py? If so, and you
still have this problem, you might have better luck persuing this on a
Postfix list.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ranbud at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 04:20:08 2005
From: ranbud at gmail.com (Randy Campbell)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 19:20:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customize the Subscribe page and footer
Message-ID: <414a45630510091920u692d2d84y4ff326285809dfc4@mail.gmail.com>

I want to customize the Subscribe page and footer for a particular list on
one of my accounts.
When I look at the subscribe.html file, I see the fields like this:

*<MM-List-Name> Subscribers*
*<MM-Mailman-Footer>*
 But I am not able to locate this file in order to change it, I do not want
to do a change gobally for all my accounts, just one account wants to change
the footer.
 Can someone tell me if I can change the list footer on one account, without
affecting my other accounts? and if so, where the heck to I find the files
to change.
Thanks for any help you can provide
 Randy Campbell


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 10 05:14:34 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 20:14:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customize the Subscribe page and footer
In-Reply-To: <414a45630510091920u692d2d84y4ff326285809dfc4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510092014340203e76fe60d@msapiro>

Randy Campbell wrote:

>I want to customize the Subscribe page and footer for a particular list on
>one of my accounts.
>When I look at the subscribe.html file, I see the fields like this:
>
>*<MM-List-Name> Subscribers*
>*<MM-Mailman-Footer>*
> But I am not able to locate this file in order to change it, I do not want
>to do a change gobally for all my accounts, just one account wants to change
>the footer.


First of all, see
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp
for information on where to store an edited version of subscribe.html
to be used by a single list.


> Can someone tell me if I can change the list footer on one account, without
>affecting my other accounts? and if so, where the heck to I find the files
>to change.


As to the other part of your question, the replacements for the <MM-*>
tags that appear in various templates are defined in the module
Mailman/HTMLFormatter.py. In particular, <MM-List-Name> is defined as
the value of the real_name attribute of the list which is just the
case-preserved list name. The <MM-Mailman-Footer> tag generates the
HTML for the web page footer that looks like

-------------------------------------------------
listname list run by owner at example.com
listname administrative interface (requires authorization)
Overview of all example.com mailing lists

Delivered by Mailman
version 2.1.5 	Python Powered 	Gnu's Not Unix
--------------------------------------------------

If you want to change this footer on one list-specific version of the
template, just remove the <MM-Mailman-Footer> tag from the template
and replace it with whatever HTML you want.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From xma at uclink.berkeley.edu  Mon Oct 10 05:24:13 2005
From: xma at uclink.berkeley.edu (Xiaoyan Ma)
Date: Sun, 09 Oct 2005 20:24:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hide lists from listinfo page only (leave
 onadmin page)
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510071012480593d27176e1@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200510071012480593d27176e1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <web-11339335@calmail-be3.berkeley.edu>

On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 10:12:48 -0700
  Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>>
>>.....
>>for name in listnames:(but not in notshowns)
> 
Thank you. I just started learning python, so I wanted to find out if I am on the right track 
first.  I have spent 2 hours on these few lines of code, but have not got it to work yet.  I tried 
to run the listinfo.py file alone to debug and got the following message (either running the 
original file that came with the package or what I have modified):

  python /var/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 25, in ?
     from Mailman import mm_cfg
ImportError: No module named Mailman

What did I miss?

> 
> Presumably this is pseudocode. It's not Python. Python might be
> 
> for name in listnames:
>      if name in notshowns:
>          continue
> 
> 
>>      mlist = MailList.MailList(name, lock=0)
>>         if mlist.advertised:
>>             if mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW
>>              mlist.web_page_url.find(hostname) == -1:
>>                 # List is for different identity of this host - skip it.
>>                 continue
>>             else:
>>                 advertised.append((mlist.GetScriptURL('listinfo'),
>>                                    mlist.real_name,
>>                                    mlist.description))
>>...


> There may be other ways to do this that don't require maintenance of a
> separate list. E.g., you could modify admin.py to display all lists
> regardless of the setting of advertised. Then lists with advertised
> set to No would be displayed on the admin overview but not the
> listinfo overview.

This is a great idea, I will test it out as well.


> 
> Also, what is the goal? If it is simply to avoid 'clutter' on the
> listinfo overview but still allow 'one click' access to the admin
> page, then you may be on the right track, but if you are trying to
> actually 'hide' the existence or name of the lists, anyone can go to
> the admin overview page and see them.
> 
Tha goal is to avoid clutter and subscription attempts.  I think modify the admin.py file as you 
suggested might be a better option.  Maybe require authentication to access the admin page.

Thanks a lot.

Xiaoyan



From mmlist at infobrok.es  Mon Oct 10 10:52:41 2005
From: mmlist at infobrok.es (David Cuenca)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:52:41 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Probe message bounce bounced (with qmail)
Message-ID: <434A2BD9.7090904@infobrok.es>

I'm getting a failure notice message when a mailing list probe message 
generates a bounce. It seems that I haven't configured qmail properly. 
Here there are details of my configuration and the error messages:

The failure notice message I receive is:

Hi. This is the qmail-send program at myserver.mydomain.foo
I tried to deliver a bounce message to this address, but the bounce bounced!

<mylist-bounces+6e42959622d8afee48a3f60818984529c7ecd088 at lists.mydomain.foo>:
...



In the Defaults.py file I have:

# VERP format and regexp for probe messages

VERP_PROBE_FORMAT = '%(bounces)s+%(token)s'

VERP_PROBE_REGEXP = r'^(?P<bounces>[^+]+?)\+(?P<token>[^@]+)@.*$'


And I have the files:

.qmail-default with:

	|preline /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qmail-to-mailman.py

.qmail-mylist-bounces-default with:

	|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces myslist


I have mailman-2.1.5 and qmail-1.03 running.

So, I see that the bounces are counted properly until the probe message 
is generated. I suppose that the user that causes the bounce message 
will not be disabled, because mailman don't receives the probe message 
bounce.

Can anyone help me, please??
Thanks a lot!



From stefan at bluematrix.co.za  Mon Oct 10 13:19:01 2005
From: stefan at bluematrix.co.za (Stefan Henrico)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 13:19:01 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change email address
Message-ID: <20051010111855.5C76D1E4009@bag.python.org>

Hi guys
 
Is there an email command to change one's email address for a specific list?
 


From shillong at gmail.com  Mon Oct 10 14:29:25 2005
From: shillong at gmail.com (Shillong Dotcom)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:59:25 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own posts
Message-ID: <23e021a50510100529v342cdc33m3d88d6b82fa1f3a8@mail.gmail.com>

Hi
 { } Do not send a copy of a member's own post.
 This option is NOT selected in our list. However, members donot receive
their own posts back in thrir email/inbox!!1 why??
 Am I missing something?
 Bg


From hannah at schlund.de  Mon Oct 10 16:09:43 2005
From: hannah at schlund.de (Hannah Schroeter)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:09:43 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own posts
In-Reply-To: <23e021a50510100529v342cdc33m3d88d6b82fa1f3a8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <23e021a50510100529v342cdc33m3d88d6b82fa1f3a8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20051010140943.GC27948@schlund.de>

Hello!

On Mon, Oct 10, 2005 at 05:59:25PM +0530, Shillong Dotcom wrote:
>Hi
> { } Do not send a copy of a member's own post.
> This option is NOT selected in our list. However, members donot receive
>their own posts back in thrir email/inbox!!1 why??
> Am I missing something?
> Bg

I think the setting itself should be right.

Do they receive other mail from the list?

Kind regards,

Hannah.


From jdennis at redhat.com  Mon Oct 10 16:21:46 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:21:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Debian Mailman Setup Question
In-Reply-To: <CNEELJMEAEBOFDFEELEPEECOCGAA.misha@wolfstar.ca>
References: <CNEELJMEAEBOFDFEELEPEECOCGAA.misha@wolfstar.ca>
Message-ID: <1128954106.2725.5.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Sun, 2005-10-09 at 04:18 -0400, Michel Vaillancourt wrote:
> 	Hello to the list.  I am setting up my second mailman box;  this one is a
> Debian 'Etch' installation.  It is a Postfix MTA, with two domains that I
> wish to host lists for on the one box.  I am attempting to use the
> '/var/lib/mailman/bin/postfix-to-mailman.py' file as a Postfix transport
> engine, per the instructions.  However, for some reason, I can't get Postfix
> to accept mail for my testing list; it returns:
> 
> 550 <wolfstar-test at ext2.wolfstar.ca>: Recipient address rejected: User
> unknown in local recipient table
> 
> 	I am presuming that there is a step that I have missed in the set-up, but I
> can't for the life of me figure out what it is.  Can someone who has gotten
> this working give me a shout and let me know what the "gotcha" is?  Many
> thanks in advance.

This has nothing to do with mailman, it is a postfix configuration
issue. Postfix can be configured to reject mail if the receipient is not
local. You have this configuration setting in effect. I suspect your
problem is that you don't include $alias_maps in the
local_recipient_maps parameter in postfix's main.cf. This is very
clearly documented in the comments in main.cf and the
LOCAL_RECIPIENTS_README file that is part of the postfix distribution
and available on www.postfix.org. You need the alias_maps because that
is where you've defined mailman's email addresses.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 10 17:36:27 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 08:36:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hide lists from listinfo page only
	(leaveonadmin page)
In-Reply-To: <web-11339335@calmail-be3.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402005101008362707812b862ea8@msapiro>

Xiaoyan Ma wrote:

>On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 10:12:48 -0700
>  Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>.....
>>>for name in listnames:(but not in notshowns)
>> 
>Thank you. I just started learning python, so I wanted to find out if I am on the right track 
>first.  I have spent 2 hours on these few lines of code, but have not got it to work yet.  I tried 
>to run the listinfo.py file alone to debug and got the following message (either running the 
>original file that came with the package or what I have modified):
>
>  python /var/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 25, in ?
>     from Mailman import mm_cfg
>ImportError: No module named Mailman
>
>What did I miss?


By default, Python will only access modules in the Python libraries and
the directory that contains the current module. Modules in the bin/
directory for example get around this by importing 'paths' which is
the bin/paths.py file which sets some additional directories in the
search paths.

The easiest way to make this work for testing purposes is just to store
your test file in the $prefix directory, i.e. the directory that
contains the Mailman/, bin/, etc. directories.


>> 
>> Presumably this is pseudocode. It's not Python. Python might be
>> 
>> for name in listnames:
>>      if name in notshowns:
>>          continue
>> 
>> 
>>>      mlist = MailList.MailList(name, lock=0)
>>>         if mlist.advertised:
<snip>
>>>...


A key thing in Python code is indentation because that's how Python
determines block structure. It is critical that things be indented
consistently and that either tabs or spaces but not a mixture be used
for indentation. The above snippet, properly indented looks like

 for name in listnames:
      if name in notshowns:
         continue
      mlist = MailList.MailList(name, lock=0)
         if mlist.advertised:

It is critical that "if name in notshowns:" is indented exactly the
same amount as "mlist = MailList.MailList(name, lock=0)" and that
other indentation be preserved exactly as in the original.


>Tha goal is to avoid clutter and subscription attempts.  I think modify the admin.py file as you 
>suggested might be a better option.  Maybe require authentication to access the admin page.


Presumably you will have the lists' subscribe_policy set to 'Require
approval'. I am only guessing, but I think that not showing the lists
on the listinfo page would reduce the spurious subscription attempts
to a level where manually rejecting them would not be too burdensome.
I would guess there would certainly be no more subscription requests
than non-member posts.

What I'm saying here is that authenticating access to the admin
overview page could be tricky (what password(s) would be used?) and
may not be worth the trouble.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dave at umiacs.umd.edu  Mon Oct 10 17:52:51 2005
From: dave at umiacs.umd.edu (dave at umiacs.umd.edu)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 11:52:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] embedded hostname in lists confirmation message
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0510101149450.29804@reticle.umiacs.umd.edu>

To protect our listserver, we disallow smtp to it from outside of our
domains and push all mailman addresses (list-request, list-admin...)
to our border.  People then can address our lists as LIST at FQDN.
Our borders have all the addresses for all the lists and, being within
our domain, are able to forward the mail to the listserver.
The prefered hostname is a cname that points to the actual host.

This causes problem for those trying to subscribe themselves as
the confirmation message tells them to reply to this address which
has the restricted host address embedded within.  Clicking on the
webpage however does work. So one hacky way to fix this would be
to rework the confirmation message to only include information about
the weblink.

It seems that changing the "Host name this list prefers for email"
to just the domain name will fix this. But will this  conflict with
anything else? If not, is there an easy name to script it for all
lists using withlists (ie what is the raw withlist command)?

TIA


  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-  generated by /dev/dave -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  David Stern                                    University of Maryland
            Institute for Advanced Computer Studies


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 10 17:53:26 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 08:53:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Probe message bounce bounced (with qmail)
In-Reply-To: <434A2BD9.7090904@infobrok.es>
Message-ID: <PC17402005101008532608432b862ee5@msapiro>

David Cuenca wrote:
>
>The failure notice message I receive is:
>
>Hi. This is the qmail-send program at myserver.mydomain.foo
>I tried to deliver a bounce message to this address, but the bounce bounced!
>
><mylist-bounces+6e42959622d8afee48a3f60818984529c7ecd088 at lists.mydomain.foo>:
>...
>
>
>
>In the Defaults.py file I have:
>
># VERP format and regexp for probe messages
>
>VERP_PROBE_FORMAT = '%(bounces)s+%(token)s'


This controls the format of the address in the probe and makes it look
like what you see above.


>VERP_PROBE_REGEXP = r'^(?P<bounces>[^+]+?)\+(?P<token>[^@]+)@.*$'


This controls how Mailman parses the address in a probe bounce, but the
probe bounce doesn't get to Mailman, so it doesn't come into play.

>And I have the files:
>
>.qmail-default with:
>
>	|preline /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qmail-to-mailman.py
>
>.qmail-mylist-bounces-default with:
>
>	|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces myslist
>
>
>I have mailman-2.1.5 and qmail-1.03 running.


I don't know qmail configuration, but what I'm guessing is happening is
some VERP configuration is missing from qmail so that qmail doesnt
recognize that mail to
<mylist-bounces+6e42959622d8afee48a3f60818984529c7ecd088 at lists.mydomain.foo>
(or for that matter
<mylist-bounces+anything_at_all at lists.mydomain.foo>) should be
delivered as if it were addressed to
<mylist-bounces at lists.mydomain.foo>.

>
>So, I see that the bounces are counted properly until the probe message 
>is generated. I suppose that the user that causes the bounce message 
>will not be disabled, because mailman don't receives the probe message 
>bounce.

I think you are correct.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 10 18:01:50 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:01:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change email address
In-Reply-To: <20051010111855.5C76D1E4009@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510100901500843e151dd5d@msapiro>

Stefan Henrico wrote:
> 
>Is there an email command to change one's email address for a specific list?

No. This has to be done via the web interface. If it must be done by
email, the only way is subscribe and unsubscribe.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 10 18:09:18 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:09:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] members not receiving their own posts
In-Reply-To: <23e021a50510100529v342cdc33m3d88d6b82fa1f3a8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510100909180718971d8b20@msapiro>

Shillong Dotcom wrote:

>Hi
> { } Do not send a copy of a member's own post.
> This option is NOT selected in our list. However, members donot receive
>their own posts back in thrir email/inbox!!1 why??
> Am I missing something?

This setting on the General Options page only controls the default for
new members. For existing members, you have to look at the 'not metoo'
setting in the Membership List.

Also, if the member cc's herself in her own post and has 'nodupes' set,
she will not receive the post from the list.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From misha at wolfstar.ca  Mon Oct 10 18:42:00 2005
From: misha at wolfstar.ca (Michel R Vaillancourt)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 12:42:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Debian & Postfix Mailman Config Issue
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510091423340678f370b828@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200510091423340678f370b828@msapiro>
Message-ID: <434A99D8.1050901@wolfstar.ca>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
 >
 > This is telling you that postfix doesn't know how to deliver this mail.
 > This is a Postfix configuration issue. Did you edit the three postfix
 > configuration files as described in the INSTALLATION section of the
 > comments at the beginning of postfix-to-mailman.py? If so, and you
 > still have this problem, you might have better luck persuing this on a
 > Postfix list.
 >
	Hi, Mark.  That's the kicker... I've been over my configuration files 
five times before I sent this.  The problem is, as I understand it, it 
*can't* work...  any kind of anti-UCE secured system will reject the 
traffic as it can't prove the target address exists in the virtual 
domain.  Which was why I was hoping someone on this list had actually 
made it work and could explain how they got around the issue.

	Thanks for your reply, either way.  I'll repost my question to the 
postfix list and see if any of them over there have gotten it to work. 
If not, I'll have to use the "standard" way of implementing Postfix 
virtual domains under Mailman.

-- 
	-- Michel Vaillancourt
	Wolfstar Systems

	


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 10 19:09:35 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 10:09:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] embedded hostname in lists confirmation message
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0510101149450.29804@reticle.umiacs.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <PC174020051010100935053133d8a9f6@msapiro>

dave at umiacs.umd.edu wrote:
>
>It seems that changing the "Host name this list prefers for email"
>to just the domain name will fix this. But will this  conflict with
>anything else? If not, is there an easy name to script it for all
>lists using withlists (ie what is the raw withlist command)?


I must be missing something in your description of your configuration,
but I don't understand why you are only concerned about the email
domain in the subscription confirmation message. Don't you have the
same problem with, for example, the list posting address on the
listinfo page, the addresses in the RFC 2369 headers, etc.?

In any case, there may be an issue in Mailman 2.1.5 and below if you
just change a list's host_name and that host name is not an email host
in an add_virtualhost() line in mm_cfg.py, because the
Mailman.Archiver.Archiver.GetBaseArchiveURL() method inverts the
VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary and looks up the list's host_name to get the
corresponding url host. This is not an issue in 2.1.6 because it is
done differently there, and in any case, it only affects public
archives and only if there is more than one url host (i.e. if there
actually are virtual hosts.

Is there some reason why you don't want to change DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST in
mm_cfg.py? If you were to do this, you could then run fix_url.py (via
withlist) to change all the host_name attributes.

If you really want to just change the host_name for all lists via
withlist and make no other changes, you can make a file, say
changehost.py in the bin/ directory containing (Warning!! untested use
at your own risk)

def changehost(mlist, hostname):
    if not mlist.Locked():
        mlist.Lock()
    mlist.host_name = hostname
    mlist.Save()
    mlist.Unlock()

and then run

bin/withlist -a -r changehost new_host_name

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kick at kick.no-ip.info  Tue Oct 11 01:45:30 2005
From: kick at kick.no-ip.info (kick)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 00:45:30 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] debian exim4 and mailman pipe_transport unset
Message-ID: <434AFD1A.609@kick.no-ip.info>

hello,
ive got a setup problem,

im using debian sarge 2.6 kernel and exim4
my mailman is able to take subscriptions from the website and confirm 
then no problem,
i get new member notifications and unsubscribes etc
the problem is no posts are getting through

when i run  exim4 -bt mailman@*******o
i get this

R: system_aliases for mailman@*******o
mailman@**********o -> |/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman
*** Error in setting up pipe, file, or autoreply:
pipe_transport unset in system_aliases router

ive read the archives as deeply as i can and googled for ages ..but i 
think my brain is getting tired and if ive missed an obviouse answer im 
sorry,
my exim.conf seems to be /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf
(is there a command that will tell me exactly what the config file is???)
ive setup mailman in /etc/aliases
although i understand this may not be necessary
(will it harm it?)
ive also followed this http://www.tectonic.co.za/view.php?id=538


thanks in advance :)


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 11 04:10:26 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:10:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fw: can't get replies back from list mailing...
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005100811353901561cf1f703@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510101910260578a320307c@msapiro>

Dr. Scott S. Jones wrote:
>
>When I posted my question to the list, I opened mutt, typed in my questions
>and hit y to send it off....I didn't send from any GUI mail client..just
>mutt, composing my message with vim. 


Then I don't know why your post had no content other than a "-- " line,
but it did have a "X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6"
indicating that there was a non text/plain part removed.

Both the original message and the message to which I'm replying
indicate "User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i" and the latter message is a single
text/plain part, so I can't explain what happened with the original.


>Here's what I had posted: 
>
>I have Mailman version 2.1.5 on my debian 3.1 system.
>
>I can mail OUT to list members, but if they attempt to reply back to the
>list, or to the administrator, they (I included myself here) get an error
>message telling that the address is untraceable or unroutable, i.e., that th
>name of the list, for example test59 at fyrenice.com is unroutable.
>
>If I manually run 'adduser test59' to create a 'user' on my system with that
>name, then that error is eliminated, but I still do not get any incoming
>list email upon replies to list mailing.


There is some issue with the configuration of the incoming MTA. If you
are saying you can post to the list by mailing to test59 at fyrenice.com,
then presumably you have something (aliases) in the MTA that can pipe
this address to Mailman, but it seems that perhaps whatever it is only
works for mail originating from the localhost and not from outside.

If you create the test59 user, then presumably the mail is delivered to
that users mailbox, but that doesn't get it to Mailman.


>Does any reference exist that tells the pathway of a message from send to
>receive and then from Reply on recipient's end back to the mailman machine
>serving this all up?


Comments at the front of Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py give a rough
idea of the flow of messages through Mailman. In addition to what's
there, are the facts that a message to be sent out from Mailman is
delivered via SMTP to the outgoing MTA and then by the MTA to the
recipients. A reply back to the list is received by the incoming MTA
and piped to the mail wrapper with the appropriate action and listname
arguments. It is this last bit that apparently isn't working in your
case, at least for mail originating outside localhost.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 11 04:30:06 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:30:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] debian exim4 and mailman pipe_transport unset
In-Reply-To: <434AFD1A.609@kick.no-ip.info>
Message-ID: <PC17402005101019300605314dc76139@msapiro>

kick wrote:
>
>im using debian sarge 2.6 kernel and exim4
>my mailman is able to take subscriptions from the website and confirm 
>then no problem,
>i get new member notifications and unsubscribes etc
>the problem is no posts are getting through
>
>when i run  exim4 -bt mailman@*******o
>i get this
>
>R: system_aliases for mailman@*******o
>mailman@**********o -> |/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman
>*** Error in setting up pipe, file, or autoreply:
>pipe_transport unset in system_aliases router


http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.019.htp
may help.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From xma at uclink.berkeley.edu  Tue Oct 11 08:57:52 2005
From: xma at uclink.berkeley.edu (Xiaoyan Ma)
Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 23:57:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hide lists from listinfo page only
 (leaveonadmin page)
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005101008362707812b862ea8@msapiro>
References: <PC17402005101008362707812b862ea8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <web-11778040@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>

> By default, Python will only access modules in the Python libraries and
> the directory that contains the current module. Modules in the bin/
> directory for example get around this by importing 'paths' which is
> the bin/paths.py file which sets some additional directories in the
> search paths.
> 
> The easiest way to make this work for testing purposes is just to store
> your test file in the $prefix directory, i.e. the directory that
> contains the Mailman/, bin/, etc. directories.
> A key thing in Python code is indentation because that's how Python
> determines block structure. It is critical that things be indented
> consistently and that either tabs or spaces but not a mixture be used
> for indentation. The above snippet, properly indented looks like
> 
> for name in listnames:
>      if name in notshowns:
>         continue
>      mlist = MailList.MailList(name, lock=0)
>         if mlist.advertised:
> 
> It is critical that "if name in notshowns:" is indented exactly the
> same amount as "mlist = MailList.MailList(name, lock=0)" and that
> other indentation be preserved exactly as in the original.
> 

Thank you so much for your help. I got it to work!

I found out that I made two errors by testing the script from $PREFIX directory as you suggested. 
One was indentation. The other was the failure to clean up all the newlines when I extracted 
listnames that I wanted to hide from a file (one listname per line).


Here is what I have now:
myfile = '/var/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/notshown'
     noshowns = string.split(open(myfile).read())
     noshowns.sort()


     for name in listnames:
         if name in noshowns:
            continue
         mlist = MailList.MailList(name, lock=0)
         if mlist.advertised:
             if mm_cfg.VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW and \
                    mlist.web_page_url.find(hostname) == -1:
                 # List is for different identity of this host - skip it.
                 continue
             else:
                 advertised.append((mlist.GetScriptURL('listinfo'),
                                    mlist.real_name,
                                    mlist.description))

Since I need to store a few hundreds listnames in the file, I wonder if it might be better
to use regular expressions.  Five to six regular expressions should be sufficient to match all the
list names I want to hide.

Another option (if it is doable) is to use Mailman's supported advertise feature to hide these
  lists from both listinfo and admin page. I will subsequently bring up a third page, either a
"sub-admin" page showing only those hidden course lists, or a "supper admin" page displaying
all lists.  The goal is that future upgrades won't entail re-customizing the previously customized 
package files.  But I am afraid this may turn out to be so complicated as to involve security 
wrapper and other matters.

I would be very grateful to have your feed back.

Thanks.
Xiaoyan


From subliminal.void at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 11:50:38 2005
From: subliminal.void at gmail.com (Subliminal Void)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:50:38 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] using CSS on Mailman Web GUI?
Message-ID: <434B8AEE.6030206@gmail.com>

Hi,

This question may have been asked before but I can't find it anywhere ...

So, how can I use CSS with Mailman to make the Web GUI somewhat nicer?

Thanks a lot!

Jerome



From subliminal.void at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 11:52:28 2005
From: subliminal.void at gmail.com (Subliminal Void)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:52:28 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] localization question ...
Message-ID: <434B8B5C.7010708@gmail.com>

Hi,

I've got the english version of Mac OS X 10.3.9 installed but I want the 
Web Interface of MailMan to be in french.

Is that possible and if yes, how?

Thanks a lot,

Jerome



From shillong at gmail.com  Tue Oct 11 12:24:32 2005
From: shillong at gmail.com (Shillong Dotcom)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:54:32 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exporting Email address
Message-ID: <23e021a50510110324t22de2c72qb6128e192fc13616@mail.gmail.com>

is there any way to get all the emails exported into a single file??? i use
cPanel based mailman


--
www.Shillong.com <http://www.Shillong.com>


From Glomme at gmx.de  Tue Oct 11 17:48:30 2005
From: Glomme at gmx.de (Hans Glomme)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 17:48:30 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible only allow plain text into messages?
Message-ID: <9575160.20051011174830@gmx.de>

Hi everybody!

At first I want excuse my badly English.
Well does somenone know if it will be possible that it is only allowed
for  users to send mails to a list in plain text? Means that it is not
possible to send into an other format then text/plain?
-- 
Thnx for help me
Greetings
Hans

Mail wurde gepr?ft mit NOD32 Version 1.1249 Build 6205 vom 11.10.2005




From sasa at stupar.homelinux.net  Tue Oct 11 18:48:04 2005
From: sasa at stupar.homelinux.net (Sasa Stupar)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:48:04 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible only allow plain text into
 messages?
In-Reply-To: <9575160.20051011174830@gmx.de>
References: <9575160.20051011174830@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <7445EBCF134D2226CF9B3AEB@[192.168.10.249]>



--On 11. oktober 2005 17:48 +0200 Hans Glomme <Glomme at gmx.de> wrote:

> Hi everybody!
>
> At first I want excuse my badly English.
> Well does somenone know if it will be possible that it is only allowed
> for  users to send mails to a list in plain text? Means that it is not
> possible to send into an other format then text/plain?


Yes. Login to admin page for the list and click on Content Filtering.

Sasa
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From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 12 02:10:01 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 17:10:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] localization question ...
In-Reply-To: <434B8B5C.7010708@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510111710010500967d9c15@msapiro>

Subliminal Void wrote:
>
>I've got the english version of Mac OS X 10.3.9 installed but I want the 
>Web Interface of MailMan to be in french.
>
>Is that possible and if yes, how?

Set

DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'fr'

in mm_cfg.py.

Also see the individual lists admin interface Language options.

Finally, see
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 12 03:11:09 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:11:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exporting Email address
In-Reply-To: <23e021a50510110324t22de2c72qb6128e192fc13616@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510111811090390967d9baf@msapiro>

Shillong Dotcom wrote:

>is there any way to get all the emails exported into a single file??? i use
>cPanel based mailman


See for example
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-October/046970.html

If this doesn't seem relevant, see
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 12 04:04:27 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 19:04:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] using CSS on Mailman Web GUI?
In-Reply-To: <434B8AEE.6030206@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005101119042702034aa2efa6@msapiro>

Subliminal Void wrote:
>
>So, how can I use CSS with Mailman to make the Web GUI somewhat nicer?

The patch at
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1160353&group_id=103&atid=300103
may be of some help.

Also, a search for CSS at
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ may turn up
something useful.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 12 05:14:16 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 20:14:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible only allow plain text
	intomessages?
In-Reply-To: <7445EBCF134D2226CF9B3AEB@[192.168.10.249]>
Message-ID: <PC17402005101120141609216855d3e9@msapiro>

Sasa Stupar wrote:
>
>--On 11. oktober 2005 17:48 +0200 Hans Glomme <Glomme at gmx.de> wrote:
>
>> Hi everybody!
>>
>> At first I want excuse my badly English.
>> Well does somenone know if it will be possible that it is only allowed
>> for  users to send mails to a list in plain text? Means that it is not
>> possible to send into an other format then text/plain?
>
>
>Yes. Login to admin page for the list and click on Content Filtering.

This is correct as far as it goes, but it is generally tricky because
the settings are not necessarily intuitive.

For example, simply putting text/plain in pass_mime_types would not
pass the message from Sasa to which I'm replying because that message
as sent to the mailman-users list was of type multipart/signed with
subparts of type text/plain and application/pgp-signature, and if
multipart or multipart/signed is not in pass_mime_types, the entire
message will be filtered.

See
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-November/041009.html
for some further information.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From scott at fyrenice.com  Wed Oct 12 07:25:03 2005
From: scott at fyrenice.com (Dr. Scott S. Jones)
Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:25:03 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fw: can't get replies back from list mailing...
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510101910260578a320307c@msapiro>
References: <PC17402005100811353901561cf1f703@msapiro>
	<PC1740200510101910260578a320307c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20051012052502.GA16675@xmission.com>

Mark 
 
> Then I don't know why your post had no content other than a "-- " line,
> but it did have a "X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.6"
> indicating that there was a non text/plain part removed.
> 
> Both the original message and the message to which I'm replying
> indicate "User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i" and the latter message is a single
> text/plain part, so I can't explain what happened with the original.

I am not too worried about the content issue for now. It's on the back
burner for now. 

> There is some issue with the configuration of the incoming MTA. If you
> are saying you can post to the list by mailing to test59 at fyrenice.com,
> then presumably you have something (aliases) in the MTA that can pipe
> this address to Mailman, but it seems that perhaps whatever it is only
> works for mail originating from the localhost and not from outside.
> 
> If you create the test59 user, then presumably the mail is delivered to
> that users mailbox, but that doesn't get it to Mailman.

My MTA, exim4, does seem to get the mail out, but can't get it back in to
the right place. Obviously, I run Mutt and it works fine, in both
directions, just not in feeding the email to the various MM lists on my
system. 
 

> Comments at the front of Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py give a rough
> idea of the flow of messages through Mailman. In addition to what's
> there, are the facts that a message to be sent out from Mailman is
> delivered via SMTP to the outgoing MTA and then by the MTA to the
> recipients. A reply back to the list is received by the incoming MTA
> and piped to the mail wrapper with the appropriate action and listname
> arguments. It is this last bit that apparently isn't working in your
> case, at least for mail originating outside localhost.

I checked the IncomingRunner.py to get a better idea. It's helpful, but
still leaves me in the dark as to why my messages with MM are getting
mistreated. 

I notice that in some of my lists, I click on the Archives, and see messages
from several months back, while with others, for example, newer lists, there
is no archive, but instead this error message: 

	Not Found

	The requested URL /pipermail/bonez/ was not found on this server.
	Apache/2.0.54 (Debian GNU/Linux) mod_python/3.1.3 Python/2.3.5
	PHP/4.3.10-16 mod_perl/1.999.21 Perl/v5.8.4 Server at fyrenice.com
	Port 80

Does this suggestion I have troubles just with this 'bonez' list or with
pipermail installation as well? With an older list, that I have used more,
the archives open up and list several months. which leads to one final
question.

I read the archives at the mailman site at times, and notice the site is
magically able to list communications 20 years into the future, a la ...
	
	April 2024:
	June 2013:

Any idea how those folks at Mailman can see so far into the future? I'd bet
they are working on the side for a few stock brokers...or for Madam LaRue,
the local Psychic!

Scott


From jwt at onjapan.net  Wed Oct 12 08:57:41 2005
From: jwt at onjapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:57:41 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fw: can't get replies back from list mailing...
In-Reply-To: <20051012052502.GA16675@xmission.com>
References: <PC17402005100811353901561cf1f703@msapiro>
	<PC1740200510101910260578a320307c@msapiro>
	<20051012052502.GA16675@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <3285B054-1F23-4149-9079-9B2D113D83F2@onjapan.net>

On Oct 12, 2005, at 14:25, Dr. Scott S. Jones wrote:
> My MTA, exim4, does seem to get the mail out, but can't get it back  
> in to
> the right place. Obviously, I run Mutt and it works fine, in both
> directions, just not in feeding the email to the various MM lists  
> on my
> system.

If the problem is with mail to aliases other than the bare listname,  
double check the local_part_suffixes in your Mailman router in your  
Exim configuration.

> I notice that in some of my lists, I click on the Archives, and see  
> messages
> from several months back, while with others, for example, newer  
> lists, there
> is no archive, but instead this error message:
>
>     Not Found

Is the difference between those lists with public and private  
archives?  (If so, and it is the public archives that are missing,  
make sure you have your web server configured to have the option  
FollowSymLinks, at least for your mailman/archives/public tree.)

> I read the archives at the mailman site at times, and notice the  
> site is
> magically able to list communications 20 years into the future, a  
> la ...
>
>     April 2024:
>     June 2013:
>
> Any idea how those folks at Mailman can see so far into the future?  
> I'd bet

By changing ARCHIVER_CLOBBER_DATE_POLICY in your mm_cfg.py you can  
avoid relying on the user supplied Date:.  Setting it to '2' allows  
only munging the date if it is outside the limits defined by the  
ARCHIVER_ALLOWABLE_SANE_DATE_SKEW variable.  (See the documentation  
in your Defaults.py file.)



-- 
Jim Tittsler     http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship  http://Starship.Python.net/crew/jwt/
Mailman IRC      irc://irc.freenode.net/#mailman





From samarta at ci.uc.pt  Wed Oct 12 11:56:03 2005
From: samarta at ci.uc.pt (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=E3o_S=E1_Marta?=)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 10:56:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pending posts not found
In-Reply-To: <3285B054-1F23-4149-9079-9B2D113D83F2@onjapan.net>
Message-ID: <20051012095210.62B884A813A@teste-d.ci.uc.pt>

Greetings,

Every day, the moderator of one of our mailman lists receives a message
telling him  that his mailing list "has 2 request(s) waiting for your
consideration at:

	http://..../mailman/admindb/maillist_name
	
Please attend to this at your earliest convenience.  This notice of pending
requests, if any, will be sent out daily.


Pending posts:
From: teriquinn at antisrichinmoy.com on Mon Aug 22 08:51:59 2005
Subject: 100's of titles by MS 2003 MS 2003 & Windows starting @ 9.99
Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list
"


But, in the maillist administration page there are no pending posts.

As I am the system manger, where can I look for such "phantom" posts in
order to delete them ?

I am using Mailman 2.1.5

Thanks in advance for any help,


===============================|===================================
= Joao Sa Marta                |          Email: samarta at ci.uc.pt =
= Centro de Informatica        |        Tel: 239 853178 (directo) =
= da Universidade de           |          Tel: 239 853170 (Geral) =
= Coimbra                      |                  Fax: 239 853189 =
= Apartado 3080                | http://www.uc.pt/pessoal/samarta =
= 3001-401 Coimbra             |                                  =
===============================|===================================




From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 12 16:54:27 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 07:54:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fw: can't get replies back from list mailing...
In-Reply-To: <20051012052502.GA16675@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510120754270437c60abe90@msapiro>

Dr. Scott S. Jones wrote:
>
>My MTA, exim4, does seem to get the mail out, but can't get it back in to
>the right place. Obviously, I run Mutt and it works fine, in both
>directions, just not in feeding the email to the various MM lists on my
>system. 

I'm still not clear on one point. I understand that when an outside
user mails to (e.g.) test59 at fyrenice.com, the mail is rejected by
Exim. What I am not clear on is what happens when you, using Mutt on
the local host, send mail to test59 at fyrenice.com? Does that mail get
piped to Mailman and delivered to the list, or do you get your mail to
Mailman in another way, and if so, how?

In any case, this is still an Exim configuration problem. If you are
mailing to a list (e.g. test59 at fyrenice.com) and it works, then there
is some difference in the way Exim is treating mail originating
locally, vs. mail originating outside. If you post in another way,
then Exim just isn't set up properly for your mailman configuration.

See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.019.htp
for pointers to Exim configuration information.

(Your other questions were addressed in Jim's reply in this thread.)

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dpifer at odu.edu  Wed Oct 12 17:55:25 2005
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:55:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List archive failures
Message-ID: <1129132525.3565.100.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

We had a list admin who complained that he does not have permission
to view his list serve's archive. I logged as the mailman user and
clicked on "Go to list archive" and got the same message he was seeing.

Here it is:

Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /list-archives/ on this server.

________________________________________________________________________
Apache Server at list.odu.edu Port 80


I checked the mailman's directory root and there is a symbolic
link:

lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     staff     27 Feb 17  2005 list-archives ->
../mailman/archives/public/

I ran the command:
ls -l ../mailman/archives/public/

which listed symbolic links for all of the list serves, such as:

/usr1/mailman/mailman/archives/private/[list]

where [list] is an example of one of the name of the lists.

I ran the script 'list-admins [list]' and it produced the
list owner as I would expect.

FYI, we are running mailman 2.1.6b4 on RHEL 3.0 Update Linux.

Any help in fixing this would be appreciated.

Darren
Old Dominion University 



From rae at gitchee.com  Wed Oct 12 18:19:01 2005
From: rae at gitchee.com (Rae)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:19:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List archive failures
In-Reply-To: <1129132525.3565.100.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
References: <1129132525.3565.100.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20051012111505.02fc7150@gitchee.com>

Make sure that the user is listed in the server group for mailman. 
Something like this:

mailman:*:1000:LOGIN,www,USER

If you don't have access to the group file, you will need to talk to 
your webhost.

Also check that your archives directory has the mailman:mailman 
permissions ownership set.

Best wishes,
Rae

At 10:55 AM 10/12/2005, Darren G Pifer wrote:
>We had a list admin who complained that he does not have permission
>to view his list serve's archive. I logged as the mailman user and
>clicked on "Go to list archive" and got the same message he was seeing.
>
>Here it is:
>
>Forbidden
>You don't have permission to access /list-archives/ on this server.
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>Apache Server at list.odu.edu Port 80
>
>
>I checked the mailman's directory root and there is a symbolic
>link:
>
>lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     staff     27 Feb 17  2005 list-archives ->
>../mailman/archives/public/
>
>I ran the command:
>ls -l ../mailman/archives/public/
>
>which listed symbolic links for all of the list serves, such as:
>
>/usr1/mailman/mailman/archives/private/[list]
>
>where [list] is an example of one of the name of the lists.
>
>I ran the script 'list-admins [list]' and it produced the
>list owner as I would expect.
>
>FYI, we are running mailman 2.1.6b4 on RHEL 3.0 Update Linux.
>
>Any help in fixing this would be appreciated.
>
>Darren
>Old Dominion University




From dpifer at odu.edu  Wed Oct 12 18:28:20 2005
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:28:20 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List archive failures
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20051012111505.02fc7150@gitchee.com>
References: <1129132525.3565.100.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20051012111505.02fc7150@gitchee.com>
Message-ID: <1129134499.3565.108.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20051012/680ebc47/attachment.asc 

From barry at python.org  Wed Oct 12 19:16:22 2005
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 13:16:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] The Mailman FAQ wizard (temporarily unavailable)
Message-ID: <1129137382.25721.9.camel@geddy.wooz.org>

The Python.org administrators have moved the website to our spiffy new
server, however the Mailman FAQ wizard hasn't yet been moved.  It should
be shortly.

Please try not to make any changes to the FAQ wizard for the next day or
so.  Currently, until your DNS updates, you'll be hitting the wizard on
the old machine -- at least until it gets disabled.  When the database
gets migrated, your changes may get lost.  Then you may not have access
to the new one until your DNS gets updated.

I'll send out another message when the FAQ wizard has been successfully
migrated.

-Barry

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From brad at python.org  Wed Oct 12 20:05:46 2005
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 20:05:46 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman FAQ Wizard going down temporarily...
Message-ID: <p06200725bf7300356040@[10.0.1.210]>

Folks,

	We're in the process of switching www.python.org to a new 
machine, and it may take a while for the DNS changes to propagate.

	In the meanwhile, we're disallowing updates to the Mailman FAQ 
Wizard on the old machine, so that we can make sure we've got the 
absolute latest material on the new system.


	Please bear with us.  I believe that the new machine will be a 
huge improvement over the old creaky system, but it may take us a day 
or two to get all the bugs worked out.

	If you run into any unusual problems, please let us know.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>          Python.org Postmaster Team


From barry at python.org  Wed Oct 12 20:08:36 2005
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:08:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] The Mailman FAQ wizard (temporarily unavailable)
In-Reply-To: <1129137382.25721.9.camel@geddy.wooz.org>
References: <1129137382.25721.9.camel@geddy.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <1129140516.8399.3.camel@geddy.wooz.org>

On Wed, 2005-10-12 at 13:16, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> The Python.org administrators have moved the website to our spiffy new
> server, however the Mailman FAQ wizard hasn't yet been moved.  It should
> be shortly.
> 
> Please try not to make any changes to the FAQ wizard for the next day or
> so.  Currently, until your DNS updates, you'll be hitting the wizard on
> the old machine -- at least until it gets disabled.  When the database
> gets migrated, your changes may get lost.  Then you may not have access
> to the new one until your DNS gets updated.
> 
> I'll send out another message when the FAQ wizard has been successfully
> migrated.

Okay, if you get a permission denied, you're talking to the old server. 
Once your DNS gets updated, you'll get the new server on which the FAQ
wizard is now enabled.  Please feel free to use it as before.

Thanks,
-Barry

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From addyleslie at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 12 21:23:21 2005
From: addyleslie at yahoo.com (Leslie Addy)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:23:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Inserting list name into emails
Message-ID: <20051012192321.85329.qmail@web30408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I have a mailman listserv and I am trying to send out emails. The email is an html email and I want to be able to include list names in this email. 
 
Let's say my html is as follows
 
<html>
<bo dy>
Dear <<Mailman listname>>
 
Thank you.
Admin.
</bo dy>
</html>
 
How do I do this?




		
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.

From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Oct 12 21:48:18 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 21:48:18 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Inserting list name into emails
In-Reply-To: <20051012192321.85329.qmail@web30408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20051012192321.85329.qmail@web30408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p0620072abf7318e52989@[10.0.1.210]>

At 12:23 PM -0700 2005-10-12, Leslie Addy wrote:

>  I have a mailman listserv and I am trying to send out emails. The email is
>  an html email and I want to be able to include list names in this email.

	See 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.018.htp>, 
as well as 3.37 and 3.40.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From dugan at biocontact.org  Thu Oct 13 04:13:57 2005
From: dugan at biocontact.org (Jon Dugan)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 19:13:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] branding Mailman pages to my site
Message-ID: <20051013021357.GB25295@shogun2.Stanford.EDU>

Hi All --

I am brand new to using mailman.  I'm trying to set it up for an
existing list from Yahoo Groups with about 3k subscribers.

I would like to customize the HTML that gets displayed at the bottom of
the pages for several of the scripts: listinfo, subscribe, and
confirm, etc.


For example, at the bottom of the listinfo page for this list, the
following HTML appears:

<hr><address><a
href="http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users"
>Mailman-Users</a> list run by <a +
href="mailto:mailman-users-owner at python.org">barry at python.org, brad
at python.org, mm-admin05 at equinep +hotoart.com</a><br><a
href="http://mail.python.org/mailman/admin/mailman-users"
>Mailman-Users administrative + interface</a> (requires
authorization)<br><a href="http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo"
>Overview of all + python.org mailing lists</a><p>
<table WIDTH="100%" BORDER="0">
  <tr>
    <td><img src="/icons/mailman.jpg" alt="Delivered by Mailman"
    border=0><br>version 2.1.6</td>
    <td><img src="/icons/PythonPowered.png" alt="Python Powered"
    border=0></td>
    <td><img src="/icons/gnu-head-tiny.jpg" alt="GNU's Not Unix"
    border=0></td>
  </tr>
</table>


While I want to credit mailman for managing the list, this is not the
way I want to do it.  Is there a way to change this HTML to customize
it for a particular list?


Regards,
Jon


--



=========================================================
Jonathan M. Dugan, Ph.D.        

Bio-X Research Development and Corporate Relations
Stanford University           
Clark Center, 318 Campus Drive, Room S135    
Stanford, CA 94305-5446

Tel:  (650) 725-1523
Cell: (650) 799-5369
Fax:  (650) 725-0400
jonathan.dugan at stanford.edu  
http://biox.stanford.edu
=========================================================


From dugan at biocontact.org  Thu Oct 13 04:21:02 2005
From: dugan at biocontact.org (Jon Dugan)
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 19:21:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] including other fields in Mailman membership info
Message-ID: <20051013022102.GC25295@shogun2.Stanford.EDU>

Hi All --

I am brand new to using mailman.  I'm trying to set it up for an
existing list from Yahoo Groups with about 3k subscribers.


Currently I have two separate databases.  One has the names and emails
(from Yahoo groups) and the other in postgres has first/last
name,email, company, title, phone, etc.


Is there a way to get mailman to have more than just the name and
email fields?  While I recognize this would complicate things -- I'd
really like to leverage the great interface, password mailing,
confirmation -- etc. all in a broader membership database.  

I'm considering writing in-between cgi wrappers that take online form
submissions and parse the other data into a postgres database -- but
it would be great if there were an easy way to add it into Mailman.


Separate from the above, is there a way to make a call within "Full
Personalization" to extract a custom piece of data to place into an
email?

For example, if I do have to store the comapny name for each member in
an external database, is there a way to get it into each email when
sending?



Regards,
Jon


--



=========================================================
Jonathan M. Dugan, Ph.D.        

Bio-X Research Development and Corporate Relations
Stanford University           
Clark Center, 318 Campus Drive, Room S135    
Stanford, CA 94305-5446

Tel:  (650) 725-1523
Cell: (650) 799-5369
Fax:  (650) 725-0400
jonathan.dugan at stanford.edu  
http://biox.stanford.edu
=========================================================






From geeetha.thangavelu at wipro.com  Thu Oct 13 06:29:35 2005
From: geeetha.thangavelu at wipro.com (geeetha.thangavelu at wipro.com)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 09:59:35 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reg installation of openss7stack
Message-ID: <5A521CAA914BAF47A48A726DE83E7D2401707D3F@blr-k1-msg.wipro.com>




Hi all,

             I tried to install openss7 stack(latest version) and
installed it properly.But when i was trying to configure,it was giving
an error saying that the package does not support kernel headless
package.I installed that also and tried again.Still the same problem
exists.While it is checking for the kernel build directory
lib/modules/2.4.20-8smp/build  configuration fails.Build directory  has
no content and the path it is trying to retrieve does not exist.Also
build directory itself has some problems and shown in redcolour.

  Kindly clarify my doubts and assist me in successfully installing
openss7 stack.

Thanks in advance.

regards,
geetha



Confidentiality Notice

The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended
for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain confidential or privileged information. If
you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender at Wipro or Mailadmin at wipro.com immediately
and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.


From vandenberg at 2b.nl  Thu Oct 13 10:21:32 2005
From: vandenberg at 2b.nl (vandenberg)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 10:21:32 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting up a mailing list
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA4+Gg6o6tU0ya0D/viDWp3cKAAAAQAAAAUkaT/JorW0Kh8ypj6YUo2QEAAAAA@2b.nl>

How can I insert a large number of mailadresses into a mailing list?

 

met vriendelijke groet,

 

Thomas van den Berg

Herautstraat 61

8043AE Zwolle

tel 038-4605620

 



From rick.cogley at esolia.co.jp  Thu Oct 13 10:51:55 2005
From: rick.cogley at esolia.co.jp (Cogley, Rick)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:51:55 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting up a mailing list
Message-ID: <543763AA321E2747B17E70E6DE14760B2427D9@shikibu.esolia.co.jp>

This is what I use, assuming memberlist is a list of members - 

#/usr/lib/mailman/bin>add_members -r /path/to/memberlist -w n -a n listname

Best Regards,
Rick

-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->
Rick Cogley (mailto:rick.cogley at esolia.co.jp)

Tel: 03-5940-6880 || Fax: 03-5940-6881 || Cell: 090-4423-5475
(Outside Japan, remove leading zero -- +81-3-5940-6880)
English: http://www.esolia.com || Japanese: http://www.esolia.co.jp

Bilingual IT solutions and management firm -- eSolia.
-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->-->



-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+rick.cogley=esolia.co.jp at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+rick.cogley=esolia.co.jp at python.org] On Behalf
Of vandenberg
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 5:22 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting up a mailing list

How can I insert a large number of mailadresses into a mailing list?

 

met vriendelijke groet,

 

Thomas van den Berg

Herautstraat 61

8043AE Zwolle

tel 038-4605620

 

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
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http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/rick.cogley%40esolia.co
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Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Oct 13 12:08:49 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:08:49 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] including other fields in Mailman membership
 info
In-Reply-To: <20051013022102.GC25295@shogun2.Stanford.EDU>
References: <20051013022102.GC25295@shogun2.Stanford.EDU>
Message-ID: <p0620072fbf73e256604d@[10.0.1.210]>

At 7:21 PM -0700 2005-10-12, Jon Dugan wrote:

>  Is there a way to get mailman to have more than just the name and
>  email fields?  While I recognize this would complicate things -- I'd
>  really like to leverage the great interface, password mailing,
>  confirmation -- etc. all in a broader membership database.

	Mailman does not have a membership database.  There are 
unsupported third-party patches to provide a database "member 
adapter", but that's not the same thing.

>  Separate from the above, is there a way to make a call within "Full
>  Personalization" to extract a custom piece of data to place into an
>  email?
>
>  For example, if I do have to store the comapny name for each member in
>  an external database, is there a way to get it into each email when
>  sending?

	See <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.037.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Oct 13 12:09:13 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:09:13 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] branding Mailman pages to my site
In-Reply-To: <20051013021357.GB25295@shogun2.Stanford.EDU>
References: <20051013021357.GB25295@shogun2.Stanford.EDU>
Message-ID: <p06200730bf73e2b4766d@[10.0.1.210]>

At 7:13 PM -0700 2005-10-12, Jon Dugan wrote:

>  I would like to customize the HTML that gets displayed at the bottom of
>  the pages for several of the scripts: listinfo, subscribe, and
>  confirm, etc.

	See <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.040.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Oct 13 12:10:25 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 12:10:25 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reg installation of openss7stack
In-Reply-To: <5A521CAA914BAF47A48A726DE83E7D2401707D3F@blr-k1-msg.wipro.com>
References: <5A521CAA914BAF47A48A726DE83E7D2401707D3F@blr-k1-msg.wipro.com>
Message-ID: <p06200731bf73e2eb833a@[10.0.1.210]>

At 9:59 AM +0530 2005-10-13, <geeetha.thangavelu at wipro.com> wrote:

>               I tried to install openss7 stack(latest version) and
>  installed it properly.

	This doesn't have anything at all to do with the Mailman mailing 
list manager system.  Please find an appropriate mailing list or 
newsgroup for your question.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From Lists at elite4god.com  Thu Oct 13 16:49:15 2005
From: Lists at elite4god.com (Jeremy Leonard)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 10:49:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation Requests
Message-ID: <434E73EB.9020003@elite4god.com>

My moderators keep getting messages stating that there are messages 
pending. However when they follow the link the web page states database 
updated and that there are no pending requests. They get these messages 
daily.

How can i stop this?


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 13 17:03:01 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:03:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting up a mailing list
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA4+Gg6o6tU0ya0D/viDWp3cKAAAAQAAAAUkaT/JorW0Kh8ypj6YUo2QEAAAAA@2b.nl>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510130803010937a17331ca@msapiro>

vandenberg wrote:

>How can I insert a large number of mailadresses into a mailing list?

Another poster indicated bin/add_members which is fine if you have
command line access and sufficient permission.

Otherwise, you can use Membership Management...->Mass Subscription in
the web admin interface.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 13 17:18:58 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:18:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderation Requests
In-Reply-To: <434E73EB.9020003@elite4god.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510130818580062a1732e98@msapiro>

Jeremy Leonard wrote:

>My moderators keep getting messages stating that there are messages 
>pending. However when they follow the link the web page states database 
>updated and that there are no pending requests. They get these messages 
>daily.
>
>How can i stop this?


If the number of pending requests in the e-mail is -1, see
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.038.htp

Otherwise, there may be some problem with the
lists/<listname>/request.pck file. You could try replacing it with an
'empty' one from a newly created list.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 13 17:23:01 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 08:23:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pending posts not found
In-Reply-To: <20051012095210.62B884A813A@teste-d.ci.uc.pt>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510130823010734a17330ff@msapiro>

Jo?o S? Marta wrote:
>
>Every day, the moderator of one of our mailman lists receives a message
>telling him  that his mailing list "has 2 request(s) waiting for your
>consideration at:
>
>	http://..../mailman/admindb/maillist_name
>	
>Please attend to this at your earliest convenience.  This notice of pending
>requests, if any, will be sent out daily.
>
>
>Pending posts:
>From: teriquinn at antisrichinmoy.com on Mon Aug 22 08:51:59 2005
>Subject: 100's of titles by MS 2003 MS 2003 & Windows starting @ 9.99
>Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list
>"
>
>
>But, in the maillist administration page there are no pending posts.
>
>As I am the system manger, where can I look for such "phantom" posts in
>order to delete them ?
>
>I am using Mailman 2.1.5

lists/maillist_name/request.pck is where the requests are. You can
replace it with an 'empty' one from another list, or look at it with
bin/dumpdb if you want to see more.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From quiuqee at montevideo.com.uy  Thu Oct 13 21:01:14 2005
From: quiuqee at montevideo.com.uy (quiuqee at montevideo.com.uy)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:01:14 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] My list members don't recive mail sent to thier list
Message-ID: <1129230074.434eaefaab169@webmail.montevideo.com.uy>


Mailman?s question:

I have a terrible problem with mailman (after a few days, it?s driving me
crazy): It doesn?t deliver mail to list members. Can someone help me? Below I
give more details of what the problem is. Thank you very much for reading my
message.

Details:
--------
I?m running mailman 2.1.5, exim 4.50, python 2.3, Apache2, over debian sarge
stable (all packages installed from debian dsitribution through apt-get). I?ve
carefully followed all the instructions in the README, README.DEBIAN and
README.EXIM files. Also I read the 1.7 question of  ?The whole mailman FAQ?, but
I couldn?t solve the problem just with it.

I?ve created a list called ?listaquique? (plus the requiread  ?mailman? one),
and the domain where lists are defined is ?sempronlistas.com?. Finally I defined
4 members of listaquique. All this was done through shell commands. I configured
listaquique not to require moderator approval to posting the mail (as it comes
by default).

The problem is that members don?t receive any mail from their lists (neither do
the subscription ones, nor the bounces, etc). 

When I send a message to listaquique at sempronlistas.com from a member through a
mail client:
1) Exim?s mainlog file says: ? 
 message-id => listaquique
<listaquique at semrponlistas.com> R=mailman_routter T= mailman_transport 


.Completed?).
2) Mailman?s post log file says: ?
.. (1502) post to listaquique from 
, size=

.., message-id=
.., success?
3) Mailman?s smtp log file says:?
.smtp for 4 recips, completed in 10.029 seconds ?
4) Mailman?s smtp-failure log file says: ?SMTP session failure:501,
<listaquique-bounces at sempronlistas.com>: domain missing or malformed 
.?
5) Nor exim?s mainlog nor exim?s reject log mention nothing about mailman trying
to send the messages to the four members of the list
6) Besides that, messages are correctly posted in the list?s archives (through
the web)

It seems that mailman can?t send out the messages to the members of the list
through exim. Furthermore, exim doesn?t even notice that mailman is trying to
send outgoing mail through it (is mailman supposed to send the outgoing mail
through exim?, or does it send it by himself (using the smtpd python module)?).

In the former case, I don?t know what interface mailman uses to send outgoing
mail to exim:
-Perhaps it uses batch mode, and perhaps this mode errors don?t figure on exim
logs. 
-I think that if mailman uses the smtp interface through the local loop, at
least some error like ?domain missing or malformed? should appear on exim logs.

I searched the domains involved and found that: 
-the domains on the member?s addresses are all correct.
-I don?t know what recipient figures when mailman sends mail to the members, but
I suppose it?s listaquique at sempronlistas.com, which has an existent and
correctly qualified domain.

It?s important to say that the problem also appears when running directly ?cat
message |  mailman post listaquique? command, being such message, a valid
message from a list member stored in a file. This leads me to think that it?s a
mailman?s problem in sending outgoing mail, not an exim?s problem in contacting
mailman when it identifies mail sent to  mailing-lists.

 I give details of the different packages and system configuration:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Exim configuration:
------------------------
As I said before, I don?t think the problem is exim, bust just in case here is
some detail of the exim?s configuration I?m using:

1) I?ve defined the four macros mentioned in the README.EXIM file:
MAILMAN_HOME = /var/lib/mailman
MAILMAN_WRAP = MAILMAN_HOME/mail/mailman
MAILMAN_USER = list
MAILMAN_GROUP = daemon
2) I?ve included the mailman_transport and mailman_router mentioned in README.EXIM

Also in a desperate attempt, I defined list (mailman?s system user) as a
trusted-user (although I notice that wasn?t the problem because when I ?su list?
from command line, I sent mail through exim perfectly). 

Mailman configuration:
----------------------------
In mm_cfg.py I defined the following:

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = ?sempronlistas.com?
DEFAULT_URL_-HOST = ?www.sempronmailman.com? # This is the url of the #localhost
I use for mailman, which works perfectly well (I can access the web interface,
#configure the list and also watch the posted messages)
MTA = None #(I?ve also tried commenting this out with the same results)

Searching the Defaults.py, I?ve found a SMTPPORT=0, which I changed to
SMTPPORT=25 with the same results. 

Mailman?s verifications:
-----------------------------
When I ran check_perms script, it says: ?No problems found? (obtaining this
answer by running some chmod?s commands on some directories).
When I ran check_db script, it says: ?Nothing to do?.


Process details:
------------------
When I ran ?ps ?aux?, I can see the following process related with mailman, all
running by the ?list? user:
-mailmanctl
-qrunner ?runner=ArchRunner
-qrunner ?runner=BounceRunner
-qrunner ?runner=CommandRunner
-qrunner ?runner=IncommingRunner
-qrunner ?runner=NewsRunner
-qrunner ?runner=OutgoingRunner
-qrunner ?runner=VirginRunner
-qrunner ?runner=RetryRunner

Cronjobs:
-----------
When I ran ?crontab ?u list -l?, it says: ?no crontab for list?. 

As I understood reading the documentation, this is fine because the ?qrunners?
alive in ram are supposed to remove mailman??s dependency on cron for sending
messages.

Besides this, I read the crontab file, and all cronjobs were related to other
purposes than to deliver messages to list members (checkdb, disabled,
senddigests, mailpasswds, gate-news, nightly_gzip).

System aliases details:
--------------------------
Although I think this is unnecessary, because exim?s transport takes care of the
suffixes when executing mailman?s commands, I defined all the system aliases
required for ?listaquique? and ?mailman? lists in the /etc/aliases, and
afterwords run ?newaliases? command.

Other questions:
--------------------

I wonder where I can access some mailman documentation so as to answer the
following questions:

I?ve read somewhere that milman uses an external MTA running on the localhost on
port 25. Is this right or not? 


What does mailman has to do with de smtpd python module? What is that SMTPPORT=0
on Defaults.py. Shouldn?t it be 25?

I understand that the existence of qrunners eliminates some mailman?s dependence
on cron. Is this right?

Where can I read the mailman?s architecture? : What exactly each qrunner is
supposed to do? Also: What is mailmanctl daemon supposed to do?




--------------------------------------------------

Conectate a internet usando el discador del Portal

Bajatelo ahora, es super facil


http://www.montevideo.com.uy/discador/setup.exe

----------------------------------------------



From sean at adoptionmedia.com  Thu Oct 13 20:25:09 2005
From: sean at adoptionmedia.com (Sean Roe)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:25:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] issues after conversion
Message-ID: <434EA685.4080104@adoptionmedia.com>

Hi All,

I am in the process of transfering over my lists to a new machine and 
converting them to mysql.  I have got the lists created, copied the old 
lists directory over and started to create the aliases for exim4.  But 
whenever I run genaliases, I Iget the following output:

#./bin/genaliases
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./bin/genaliases", line 116, in ?
    main()
  File "./bin/genaliases", line 94, in main
    mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=False)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 105, in __init__
    self._memberadaptor = MysqlMemberships(self)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MysqlMemberships.py", line 118, in __init__
    self.cursor.execute ("""CREATE TABLE IF NOT EXISTS %s (
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/MySQLdb/cursors.py", line 137, 
in execute
    self.errorhandler(self, exc, value)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/MySQLdb/connections.py", line 
33, in defaulterrorhandler
    raise errorclass, errorvalue
_mysql_exceptions.ProgrammingError: (1064, "You have an error in your 
SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server 
version for the right syntax to use near '-child (\n  address 
varchar(255) NOT NULL,\n  hide enum('Y','N') N")
Exception exceptions.AttributeError: "MysqlMemberships instance has no 
attribute 'conn'" in <bound method MysqlMemberships.__del__ of 
<Mailman.MysqlMemberships.MysqlMemberships instance at 0x406250ec>> ignored

I checked the tables on the mysql server and they all appear to be 
there, so I am confused.  Any guidance would be helpful.

Thanks,
Sean


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Oct 13 21:28:24 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 21:28:24 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] issues after conversion
In-Reply-To: <434EA685.4080104@adoptionmedia.com>
References: <434EA685.4080104@adoptionmedia.com>
Message-ID: <p06200700bf74647ff57d@[10.0.1.210]>

At 11:25 AM -0700 2005-10-13, Sean Roe wrote:

>  I am in the process of transfering over my lists to a new machine and
>  converting them to mysql.

	Please keep in mind that the MySQL Member Adapter is an 
unsupported third-party patch.

>  _mysql_exceptions.ProgrammingError: (1064, "You have an error in your
>  SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server
>  version for the right syntax to use near '-child (\n  address
>  varchar(255) NOT NULL,\n  hide enum('Y','N') N")
>  Exception exceptions.AttributeError: "MysqlMemberships instance has no
>  attribute 'conn'" in <bound method MysqlMemberships.__del__ of
>  <Mailman.MysqlMemberships.MysqlMemberships instance at 0x406250ec>> ignored
>
>  I checked the tables on the mysql server and they all appear to be
>  there, so I am confused.  Any guidance would be helpful.

	Well, I don't know SQL, but that error message seems pretty explicit.

	Have you checked to make sure that the MySQL Member Adapter is 
compatible with Exim 4, and the way you have Exim configured?


	I think you're more likely to get useful assistance if you 
contact the author of the MySQL Member Adapter directly, and/or post 
to the Exim mailing lists, read the Exim FAQ and other documentation, 
etc....

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From maddoc at maddoc.net  Thu Oct 13 23:14:58 2005
From: maddoc at maddoc.net (Doc Schneider)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:14:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qfiles/bounces
Message-ID: <434ECE52.2060602@maddoc.net>

I'm sure this question has been asked but can't find the answer.

It sure is not in the FAQs.

Is it ok to remove the qfiles/bounces files?

I have like 50k of them on one of my servers.

Or does MM require those to be kept?

Thanks,

-Doc


From ler at lerctr.org  Thu Oct 13 23:22:47 2005
From: ler at lerctr.org (Larry Rosenman)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:22:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qfiles/bounces
In-Reply-To: <434ECE52.2060602@maddoc.net>
References: <434ECE52.2060602@maddoc.net>
Message-ID: <A33FB99C-44F1-4D52-930E-12852099E735@lerctr.org>


On Oct 13, 2005, at 4:14 PM, Doc Schneider wrote:

> I'm sure this question has been asked but can't find the answer.
>
> It sure is not in the FAQs.
>
> Is it ok to remove the qfiles/bounces files?
>
> I have like 50k of them on one of my servers.
>
> Or does MM require those to be kept?

they should(!) be being processed and deleted.  Are all the QRunner  
processes running?


-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 214-351-4152                 E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
US Mail: 3535 Gaspar Drive, Dallas, TX 75220-3611




From dpifer at odu.edu  Thu Oct 13 23:20:22 2005
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:20:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List archive failures
In-Reply-To: <1129134499.3565.108.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
References: <1129132525.3565.100.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
	<6.2.3.4.2.20051012111505.02fc7150@gitchee.com>
	<1129134499.3565.108.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <1129238422.9532.164.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

Hello,

      I wrote this one off too soon. This problem still exists
even though I thought it was fixed. While looking at a list serve using
a browser, the link shows:

http://list.odu.edu/listarchives

when I would expect something like:

http://list.odu.edu/listarchives/listname

Anyone come across this one?

Darren
Old Dominion University

On Wed, 2005-10-12 at 12:28, Darren G Pifer wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I found out what the problem was; the web server's directory
> root did not have the "Indexes" option. I set this and everything
> is now fine.
> 
> Darren
> 
> On Wed, 2005-10-12 at 12:19, Rae wrote:
> > Make sure that the user is listed in the server group for mailman. 
> > Something like this:
> > 
> > mailman:*:1000:LOGIN,www,USER
> > 
> > If you don't have access to the group file, you will need to talk to 
> > your webhost.
> > 
> > Also check that your archives directory has the mailman:mailman 
> > permissions ownership set.
> > 
> > Best wishes,
> > Rae
> > 
> > At 10:55 AM 10/12/2005, Darren G Pifer wrote:
> > >We had a list admin who complained that he does not have permission
> > >to view his list serve's archive. I logged as the mailman user and
> > >clicked on "Go to list archive" and got the same message he was seeing.
> > >
> > >Here it is:
> > >
> > >Forbidden
> > >You don't have permission to access /list-archives/ on this server.
> > >
> > >________________________________________________________________________
> > >Apache Server at list.odu.edu Port 80
> > >
> > >
> > >I checked the mailman's directory root and there is a symbolic
> > >link:
> > >
> > >lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     staff     27 Feb 17  2005 list-archives ->
> > >../mailman/archives/public/
> > >
> > >I ran the command:
> > >ls -l ../mailman/archives/public/
> > >
> > >which listed symbolic links for all of the list serves, such as:
> > >
> > >/usr1/mailman/mailman/archives/private/[list]
> > >
> > >where [list] is an example of one of the name of the lists.
> > >
> > >I ran the script 'list-admins [list]' and it produced the
> > >list owner as I would expect.
> > >
> > >FYI, we are running mailman 2.1.6b4 on RHEL 3.0 Update Linux.
> > >
> > >Any help in fixing this would be appreciated.
> > >
> > >Darren
> > >Old Dominion University
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/dpifer%40odu.edu
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> 
> BEGIN-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Teach CanIt if this mail (ID 33878011) is spam:
> Spam:        https://www.spamtrap.odu.edu/b.php?c=s&i=33878011&m=39b0eeb3954c
> Not spam:    https://www.spamtrap.odu.edu/b.php?c=n&i=33878011&m=39b0eeb3954c
> Forget vote: https://www.spamtrap.odu.edu/b.php?c=f&i=33878011&m=39b0eeb3954c
> ------------------------------------------------------
> END-ANTISPAM-VOTING-LINKS
> 



From maddoc at maddoc.net  Thu Oct 13 23:28:39 2005
From: maddoc at maddoc.net (Doc Schneider)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:28:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qfiles/bounces
In-Reply-To: <A33FB99C-44F1-4D52-930E-12852099E735@lerctr.org>
References: <434ECE52.2060602@maddoc.net>
	<A33FB99C-44F1-4D52-930E-12852099E735@lerctr.org>
Message-ID: <434ED187.1060705@maddoc.net>

Larry Rosenman wrote:
> On Oct 13, 2005, at 4:14 PM, Doc Schneider wrote:
> 
> 
>>I'm sure this question has been asked but can't find the answer.
>>
>>It sure is not in the FAQs.
>>
>>Is it ok to remove the qfiles/bounces files?
>>
>>I have like 50k of them on one of my servers.
>>
>>Or does MM require those to be kept?
> 
> 
> they should(!) be being processed and deleted.  Are all the QRunner  
> processes running?
> 
> 
mailman   1449  0.0  0.2  7424 1072 ?        S    Jul23   0:00 
/usr/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start
mailman   1450  0.1  2.4 18420 12756 ?       S    Jul23 153:23 
/usr/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   1452  0.0  0.8  8304 4592 ?        S    Jul23   1:49 
/usr/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -
mailman   1456  0.0  0.9  8780 4692 ?        S    Jul23   7:42 
/usr/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1
mailman   1457  0.0  0.1  7228  728 ?        S    Jul23   1:40 
/usr/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   1460  0.1  1.2 13996 6536 ?        S    Jul23 132:16 
/usr/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1
mailman   1471  0.0  0.7  8312 3996 ?        S    Jul23   3:28 
/usr/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   1472  0.0  0.1  7216  716 ?        S    Jul23   0:01 
/usr/bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s

Those are the ones running. I believe that is what should be running, 
correct?

-Doc


From ler at lerctr.org  Thu Oct 13 23:29:15 2005
From: ler at lerctr.org (Larry Rosenman)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:29:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qfiles/bounces
In-Reply-To: <434ED187.1060705@maddoc.net>
References: <434ECE52.2060602@maddoc.net>
	<A33FB99C-44F1-4D52-930E-12852099E735@lerctr.org>
	<434ED187.1060705@maddoc.net>
Message-ID: <E6BA7162-B4F3-4BEB-A838-8D7F5FD6044D@lerctr.org>


On Oct 13, 2005, at 4:28 PM, Doc Schneider wrote:

> Larry Rosenman wrote:
>
>> On Oct 13, 2005, at 4:14 PM, Doc Schneider wrote:
>>
>>> I'm sure this question has been asked but can't find the answer.
>>>
>>> It sure is not in the FAQs.
>>>
>>> Is it ok to remove the qfiles/bounces files?
>>>
>>> I have like 50k of them on one of my servers.
>>>
>>> Or does MM require those to be kept?
>>>
>> they should(!) be being processed and deleted.  Are all the  
>> QRunner  processes running?
>>
> mailman   1449  0.0  0.2  7424 1072 ?        S    Jul23   0:00 /usr/ 
> bin/python /var/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s -q start
> mailman   1450  0.1  2.4 18420 12756 ?       S    Jul23 153:23 /usr/ 
> bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   1452  0.0  0.8  8304 4592 ?        S    Jul23   1:49 /usr/ 
> bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -
> mailman   1456  0.0  0.9  8780 4692 ?        S    Jul23   7:42 /usr/ 
> bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1
> mailman   1457  0.0  0.1  7228  728 ?        S    Jul23   1:40 /usr/ 
> bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   1460  0.1  1.2 13996 6536 ?        S    Jul23 132:16 /usr/ 
> bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1
> mailman   1471  0.0  0.7  8312 3996 ?        S    Jul23   3:28 /usr/ 
> bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman   1472  0.0  0.1  7216  716 ?        S    Jul23   0:01 /usr/ 
> bin/python /var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
>
> Those are the ones running. I believe that is what should be  
> running, correct?

you are missing the bounce runner:

$ ps -face|grep -i qrunner
mailman  2799  2790   TS  80  0   Sep 28 ?        0:00 /usr/local/bin/ 
python /home/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
mailman  2798  2790   TS  80  0   Sep 28 ?        0:14 /usr/local/bin/ 
python /home/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
mailman  2797  2790   TS  80  0   Sep 28 ?        0:23 /usr/local/bin/ 
python /home/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman  2796  2790   TS  80  0   Sep 28 ?        0:08 /usr/local/bin/ 
python /home/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
mailman  2794  2790   TS  80  0   Sep 28 ?        0:07 /usr/local/bin/ 
python /home/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
mailman  2793  2790   TS  80  0   Sep 28 ?        0:10 /usr/local/bin/ 
python /home/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
mailman  2792  2790   TS  80  0   Sep 28 ?        0:09 /usr/local/bin/ 
python /home/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
mailman  2795  2790   TS  80  0   Sep 28 ?        0:27 /usr/local/bin/ 
python /home/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
$

>
> -Doc
>

-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 214-351-4152                 E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
US Mail: 3535 Gaspar Drive, Dallas, TX 75220-3611




From maddoc at maddoc.net  Thu Oct 13 23:46:34 2005
From: maddoc at maddoc.net (Doc Schneider)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:46:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qfiles/bounces
In-Reply-To: <E6BA7162-B4F3-4BEB-A838-8D7F5FD6044D@lerctr.org>
References: <434ECE52.2060602@maddoc.net>	<A33FB99C-44F1-4D52-930E-12852099E735@lerctr.org>	<434ED187.1060705@maddoc.net>
	<E6BA7162-B4F3-4BEB-A838-8D7F5FD6044D@lerctr.org>
Message-ID: <434ED5BA.8060908@maddoc.net>

Larry Rosenman wrote:
> On Oct 13, 2005, at 4:28 PM, Doc Schneider wrote:
> 
> 
>>Larry Rosenman wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Oct 13, 2005, at 4:14 PM, Doc Schneider wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I'm sure this question has been asked but can't find the answer.
>>>>
>>>>It sure is not in the FAQs.
>>>>
>>>>Is it ok to remove the qfiles/bounces files?
>>>>
>>>>I have like 50k of them on one of my servers.
>>>>
>>>>Or does MM require those to be kept?
>>>>
>>>
>>>they should(!) be being processed and deleted.  Are all the  
>>>QRunner  processes running?

[snip]

>>Those are the ones running. I believe that is what should be  
>>running, correct?
> 

[snip]

> you are missing the bounce runner:

Well dang. Hmm... so delete all the ones in there then restart MM? I 
seem to recall last time this server was restarted it shot a whole bunhc 
of "this message has bounced" to all the list owners.

Probably had a bunch in the bounces and just killed it/overloaded the 
qrunnerbounce processor? Or am I not thinking right?

Thanks,

-Doc


From ler at lerctr.org  Thu Oct 13 23:48:22 2005
From: ler at lerctr.org (Larry Rosenman)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:48:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qfiles/bounces
In-Reply-To: <434ED5BA.8060908@maddoc.net>
References: <434ECE52.2060602@maddoc.net>	<A33FB99C-44F1-4D52-930E-12852099E735@lerctr.org>	<434ED187.1060705@maddoc.net>
	<E6BA7162-B4F3-4BEB-A838-8D7F5FD6044D@lerctr.org>
	<434ED5BA.8060908@maddoc.net>
Message-ID: <D8786D3B-FF07-4247-808D-83B9969085A1@lerctr.org>


On Oct 13, 2005, at 4:46 PM, Doc Schneider wrote:

> Larry Rosenman wrote:
>
>> On Oct 13, 2005, at 4:28 PM, Doc Schneider wrote:
>>
>>> Larry Rosenman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Oct 13, 2005, at 4:14 PM, Doc Schneider wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I'm sure this question has been asked but can't find the answer.
>>>>>
>>>>> It sure is not in the FAQs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it ok to remove the qfiles/bounces files?
>>>>>
>>>>> I have like 50k of them on one of my servers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Or does MM require those to be kept?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> they should(!) be being processed and deleted.  Are all the   
>>>> QRunner  processes running?
>>>>
>
> [snip]
>
>
>>> Those are the ones running. I believe that is what should be   
>>> running, correct?
>>>
>
> [snip]
>
>
>> you are missing the bounce runner:
>>
>
> Well dang. Hmm... so delete all the ones in there then restart MM?  
> I seem to recall last time this server was restarted it shot a  
> whole bunhc of "this message has bounced" to all the list owners.
>
> Probably had a bunch in the bounces and just killed it/overloaded  
> the qrunnerbounce processor? Or am I not thinking right?

i'd stop mailman: mailmanctl stop
then rm qfiles/bounce
then restart mailman: mailmanctl start

then monitor the logs, and see if BounceRunner croaks again, and if  
so, find the traceback in the logs, and fix
whatever it's problem is.

LER

>
> Thanks,
>
> -Doc
>

-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 214-351-4152                 E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
US Mail: 3535 Gaspar Drive, Dallas, TX 75220-3611




From maddoc at maddoc.net  Fri Oct 14 00:25:08 2005
From: maddoc at maddoc.net (Doc Schneider)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:25:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qfiles/bounces
In-Reply-To: <D8786D3B-FF07-4247-808D-83B9969085A1@lerctr.org>
References: <434ECE52.2060602@maddoc.net>	<A33FB99C-44F1-4D52-930E-12852099E735@lerctr.org>	<434ED187.1060705@maddoc.net>	<E6BA7162-B4F3-4BEB-A838-8D7F5FD6044D@lerctr.org>	<434ED5BA.8060908@maddoc.net>
	<D8786D3B-FF07-4247-808D-83B9969085A1@lerctr.org>
Message-ID: <434EDEC4.7030006@maddoc.net>

Larry Rosenman wrote:
> On Oct 13, 2005, at 4:46 PM, Doc Schneider wrote:
> 
> 
>>Larry Rosenman wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Oct 13, 2005, at 4:28 PM, Doc Schneider wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Larry Rosenman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Oct 13, 2005, at 4:14 PM, Doc Schneider wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm sure this question has been asked but can't find the answer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It sure is not in the FAQs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Is it ok to remove the qfiles/bounces files?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have like 50k of them on one of my servers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Or does MM require those to be kept?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>they should(!) be being processed and deleted.  Are all the   
>>>>>QRunner  processes running?
>>>>>
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Those are the ones running. I believe that is what should be   
>>>>running, correct?
>>>>
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>
>>
>>>you are missing the bounce runner:
>>>
>>
>>Well dang. Hmm... so delete all the ones in there then restart MM?  
>>I seem to recall last time this server was restarted it shot a  
>>whole bunhc of "this message has bounced" to all the list owners.
>>
>>Probably had a bunch in the bounces and just killed it/overloaded  
>>the qrunnerbounce processor? Or am I not thinking right?
> 
> 
> i'd stop mailman: mailmanctl stop
> then rm qfiles/bounce
> then restart mailman: mailmanctl start
> 
> then monitor the logs, and see if BounceRunner croaks again, and if  
> so, find the traceback in the logs, and fix
> whatever it's problem is.
> 
> LER

Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618): Traceback (most recent call last):
Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner", 
line 270, in ?
Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):      main()
Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):   File "/var/mailman/bin/qrunner", 
line 230, in main
Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):      qrunner.run()
Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):   File 
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 82, in run
Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):      self._cleanup()
Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):   File 
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 139, in _cleanup
Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):      self._register_bounces()
Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):   File 
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 129, in _register_bounces
Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):      mlist.registerBounce(addr, 
msg, day=day)
Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):   File 
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py", line 131, in registerBounce
Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):      time.strftime('%d-%b-%Y', day 
+ (0,)*6))
Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618): ValueError :  day of year out of range

And it bombed.

Any ideas on what is happening?

-Doc


From ler at lerctr.org  Fri Oct 14 00:25:14 2005
From: ler at lerctr.org (Larry Rosenman)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:25:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qfiles/bounces
In-Reply-To: <434EDEC4.7030006@maddoc.net>
References: <434ECE52.2060602@maddoc.net>	<A33FB99C-44F1-4D52-930E-12852099E735@lerctr.org>	<434ED187.1060705@maddoc.net>	<E6BA7162-B4F3-4BEB-A838-8D7F5FD6044D@lerctr.org>	<434ED5BA.8060908@maddoc.net>
	<D8786D3B-FF07-4247-808D-83B9969085A1@lerctr.org>
	<434EDEC4.7030006@maddoc.net>
Message-ID: <A03DE230-D4E2-4E7A-9BE5-D44128126F6C@lerctr.org>


On Oct 13, 2005, at 5:25 PM, Doc Schneider wrote:
>
> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618): Traceback (most recent call  
> last):
> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):   File "/var/mailman/bin/ 
> qrunner", line 270, in ?
> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):      main()
> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):   File "/var/mailman/bin/ 
> qrunner", line 230, in main
> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):      qrunner.run()
> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/ 
> Queue/Runner.py", line 82, in run
> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):      self._cleanup()
> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/ 
> Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 139, in _cleanup
> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):      self._register_bounces()
> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/ 
> Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 129, in _register_bounces
> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):      mlist.registerBounce 
> (addr, msg, day=day)
> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/ 
> Bouncer.py", line 131, in registerBounce
> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):      time.strftime('%d-%b-%Y',  
> day + (0,)*6))
> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618): ValueError :  day of year out  
> of range
>
> And it bombed.
>
> Any ideas on what is happening?

Python 2.4 and Mailman 2.1.5.

Upgrade Mailman to 2.1.6 or downgrade Python to 2.3.


>
> -Doc
>

-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 214-351-4152                 E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
US Mail: 3535 Gaspar Drive, Dallas, TX 75220-3611




From maddoc at maddoc.net  Fri Oct 14 00:29:28 2005
From: maddoc at maddoc.net (Doc Schneider)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:29:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qfiles/bounces
In-Reply-To: <A03DE230-D4E2-4E7A-9BE5-D44128126F6C@lerctr.org>
References: <434ECE52.2060602@maddoc.net>	<A33FB99C-44F1-4D52-930E-12852099E735@lerctr.org>	<434ED187.1060705@maddoc.net>	<E6BA7162-B4F3-4BEB-A838-8D7F5FD6044D@lerctr.org>	<434ED5BA.8060908@maddoc.net>
	<D8786D3B-FF07-4247-808D-83B9969085A1@lerctr.org>
	<434EDEC4.7030006@maddoc.net>
	<A03DE230-D4E2-4E7A-9BE5-D44128126F6C@lerctr.org>
Message-ID: <434EDFC8.7070706@maddoc.net>

Larry Rosenman wrote:
> 
> On Oct 13, 2005, at 5:25 PM, Doc Schneider wrote:
> 
>>
>> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618): Traceback (most recent call  last):
>> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):   File "/var/mailman/bin/ 
>> qrunner", line 270, in ?
>> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):      main()
>> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):   File "/var/mailman/bin/ 
>> qrunner", line 230, in main
>> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):      qrunner.run()
>> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/ 
>> Queue/Runner.py", line 82, in run
>> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):      self._cleanup()
>> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/ 
>> Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 139, in _cleanup
>> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):      self._register_bounces()
>> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/ 
>> Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 129, in _register_bounces
>> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):      mlist.registerBounce (addr, 
>> msg, day=day)
>> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/ 
>> Bouncer.py", line 131, in registerBounce
>> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):      time.strftime('%d-%b-%Y',  
>> day + (0,)*6))
>> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618): ValueError :  day of year out  of 
>> range
>>
>> And it bombed.
>>
>> Any ideas on what is happening?
> 
> 
> Python 2.4 and Mailman 2.1.5.
> 
> Upgrade Mailman to 2.1.6 or downgrade Python to 2.3.
> 

Python 2.4.1 and MM 2.1.4 here.

I'll try downgrading python

Thanks Larry!




From ler at lerctr.org  Fri Oct 14 00:30:13 2005
From: ler at lerctr.org (Larry Rosenman)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:30:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qfiles/bounces
In-Reply-To: <434EDFC8.7070706@maddoc.net>
References: <434ECE52.2060602@maddoc.net>	<A33FB99C-44F1-4D52-930E-12852099E735@lerctr.org>	<434ED187.1060705@maddoc.net>	<E6BA7162-B4F3-4BEB-A838-8D7F5FD6044D@lerctr.org>	<434ED5BA.8060908@maddoc.net>
	<D8786D3B-FF07-4247-808D-83B9969085A1@lerctr.org>
	<434EDEC4.7030006@maddoc.net>
	<A03DE230-D4E2-4E7A-9BE5-D44128126F6C@lerctr.org>
	<434EDFC8.7070706@maddoc.net>
Message-ID: <3DD2A90E-BF55-40F4-B4B7-32C46438E910@lerctr.org>


On Oct 13, 2005, at 5:29 PM, Doc Schneider wrote:
>>
>> Python 2.4 and Mailman 2.1.5.
>>
>> Upgrade Mailman to 2.1.6 or downgrade Python to 2.3.
>>
>>
>
> Python 2.4.1 and MM 2.1.4 here.
>
> I'll try downgrading python
>
> Thanks Larry!
>


I'd put a 2.1.6 upgrade on your schedule.  There is LOTS of goodness  
in it.

LER

-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 214-351-4152                 E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
US Mail: 3535 Gaspar Drive, Dallas, TX 75220-3611




From maddoc at maddoc.net  Fri Oct 14 00:37:06 2005
From: maddoc at maddoc.net (Doc Schneider)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:37:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qfiles/bounces
In-Reply-To: <3DD2A90E-BF55-40F4-B4B7-32C46438E910@lerctr.org>
References: <434ECE52.2060602@maddoc.net>	<A33FB99C-44F1-4D52-930E-12852099E735@lerctr.org>	<434ED187.1060705@maddoc.net>	<E6BA7162-B4F3-4BEB-A838-8D7F5FD6044D@lerctr.org>	<434ED5BA.8060908@maddoc.net>
	<D8786D3B-FF07-4247-808D-83B9969085A1@lerctr.org>
	<434EDEC4.7030006@maddoc.net>
	<A03DE230-D4E2-4E7A-9BE5-D44128126F6C@lerctr.org>
	<434EDFC8.7070706@maddoc.net>
	<3DD2A90E-BF55-40F4-B4B7-32C46438E910@lerctr.org>
Message-ID: <434EE192.1070504@maddoc.net>

Larry Rosenman wrote:
> 
> On Oct 13, 2005, at 5:29 PM, Doc Schneider wrote:
> 
>>>
>>> Python 2.4 and Mailman 2.1.5.
>>>
>>> Upgrade Mailman to 2.1.6 or downgrade Python to 2.3.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Python 2.4.1 and MM 2.1.4 here.
>>
>> I'll try downgrading python
>>
>> Thanks Larry!
>>
> 
> 
> I'd put a 2.1.6 upgrade on your schedule.  There is LOTS of goodness  in 
> it.
> 
> LER
> 

Yeah I have upgrading to 2.1.6 on my todo list. 8*))

I use the htdig search stuff from Richard so it isn't really all that 
easy to just do an upgrade. Lots of lists on my lists boxen too!

Thanks again,

-Doc


From ler at lerctr.org  Fri Oct 14 00:37:28 2005
From: ler at lerctr.org (Larry Rosenman)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:37:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qfiles/bounces
In-Reply-To: <434EE192.1070504@maddoc.net>
References: <434ECE52.2060602@maddoc.net>	<A33FB99C-44F1-4D52-930E-12852099E735@lerctr.org>	<434ED187.1060705@maddoc.net>	<E6BA7162-B4F3-4BEB-A838-8D7F5FD6044D@lerctr.org>	<434ED5BA.8060908@maddoc.net>
	<D8786D3B-FF07-4247-808D-83B9969085A1@lerctr.org>
	<434EDEC4.7030006@maddoc.net>
	<A03DE230-D4E2-4E7A-9BE5-D44128126F6C@lerctr.org>
	<434EDFC8.7070706@maddoc.net>
	<3DD2A90E-BF55-40F4-B4B7-32C46438E910@lerctr.org>
	<434EE192.1070504@maddoc.net>
Message-ID: <94E806FE-6A24-430F-9A1C-94C3C5F52945@lerctr.org>


On Oct 13, 2005, at 5:37 PM, Doc Schneider wrote:

> Larry Rosenman wrote:
>
>> On Oct 13, 2005, at 5:29 PM, Doc Schneider wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> Python 2.4 and Mailman 2.1.5.
>>>>
>>>> Upgrade Mailman to 2.1.6 or downgrade Python to 2.3.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Python 2.4.1 and MM 2.1.4 here.
>>>
>>> I'll try downgrading python
>>>
>>> Thanks Larry!
>>>
>>>
>> I'd put a 2.1.6 upgrade on your schedule.  There is LOTS of  
>> goodness  in it.
>> LER
>>
>
> Yeah I have upgrading to 2.1.6 on my todo list. 8*))
>
> I use the htdig search stuff from Richard so it isn't really all  
> that easy to just do an upgrade. Lots of lists on my lists boxen too!
>
> Thanks again,
>
> -Doc
>
Understood.  The 2.1.6 bounce processor is MUCH smarter than the 2.1 
[45] ones.

Just one good thing :)

LER

-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 214-351-4152                 E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
US Mail: 3535 Gaspar Drive, Dallas, TX 75220-3611




From wrjorgen at tds.net  Fri Oct 14 00:38:40 2005
From: wrjorgen at tds.net (Warren Jorgenson)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:38:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Novel Groupwise and Mailman display problem
Message-ID: <434EE1F0.9010402@tds.net>

Help

Members of my email list that use Novel Groupwise email are having 
problems of late, getting the entire message to open.  They only see the 
following and they see nothing else in the normal email window.

This is an automated message from Minnesota Fire Service News.  Please do not reply.  
You may submit your comments or request additional information by contacting MFSN through 
our Web site at: http://minnesotafireservice.com or by email to Mfsn-owner at minnesotafireservice.com
------------------

The rest of the message is some sort of attachment that does not display 
unless you open the entire email  in a separate window and click on the 
attachments icons.

There are usually three attachments
 [MFSN] FDNY - Rope Safety System Pulled
Part 1.2.1.2
Part 1.2.1.3

The bottom part is below - Part 1.2.1.3
_____________________________________
MFSN mailing list
MFSN at minnesotafireservice.com
http://minnesotafireservice.com/mailman/listinfo/mfsn_minnesotafireservice.com


Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Warren


-- 
Warren R. Jorgenson
Southern District Coordinator
Office of The Chancellor
Minnesota State Colleges and Universities
wrjorgen at tds.net

Southern District Office
1000 SW Kandiyohi Ave.
Willmar, MN 56201-3163

320-894-5071 - Cell
320-231-5454 - District Office Call anytime
320-231-5454 - Fax

Office of The Chancellor
Fire, EMS, Safety Training
Minnesota State Colleges and Universities
Fire/EMS/Safety Center
Wells Fargo Place 
30 7th Street East, Suite 350 
St. Paul, MN 55101-7804

800-311-3143 - Office
651-649-5454 - Office
651-649-5409 - Fax
http://www.firecenter.mnscu.edu
*******************************************************
The opinions stated herein are those of the author 
and in no way shape or form reflect the opinions of any 
organization(s) that I am in any way affiliated 
with unless otherwise indicated.

This email and any files transmitted with it are intended
only for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed.  If you received this email in error please
notify wrjorgen at tds.net
*******************************************************


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 14 01:42:49 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:42:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List archive failures
In-Reply-To: <1129238422.9532.164.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510131642490921c543846a@msapiro>

Darren G Pifer wrote:
>
>      I wrote this one off too soon. This problem still exists
>even though I thought it was fixed. While looking at a list serve using
>a browser, the link shows:
>
>http://list.odu.edu/listarchives
>
>when I would expect something like:
>
>http://list.odu.edu/listarchives/listname

Look at your setting for PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL in mm_cfg.py. The default
in Defaults.py is

PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'http://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'

You have clearly changed at least the 'pipermail' part of this. Did you
somehow mess up the '%(listname)s' in the process?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 14 02:07:12 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 17:07:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Novel Groupwise and Mailman display problem
In-Reply-To: <434EE1F0.9010402@tds.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510131707120921e0b1ef65@msapiro>

Warren Jorgenson wrote:
>
>There are usually three attachments
> [MFSN] FDNY - Rope Safety System Pulled
>Part 1.2.1.2
>Part 1.2.1.3
>
>The bottom part is below - Part 1.2.1.3
>_____________________________________
>MFSN mailing list
>MFSN at minnesotafireservice.com
>http://minnesotafireservice.com/mailman/listinfo/mfsn_minnesotafireservice.com

See the FAQ article at
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 14 03:06:04 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:06:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] My list members don't recive mail sent to thier
	list
In-Reply-To: <1129230074.434eaefaab169@webmail.montevideo.com.uy>
Message-ID: <PC17402005101318060400935730f4c1@msapiro>

quiuqee at montevideo.com.uy wrote:
>
>When I send a message to listaquique at sempronlistas.com from a member through a
>mail client:
>1) Exim?s mainlog file says: ? 
 message-id => listaquique
><listaquique at semrponlistas.com> R=mailman_routter T= mailman_transport 
>

.Completed?).
>2) Mailman?s post log file says: ?
.. (1502) post to listaquique from 
, size=
>
.., message-id=
.., success?
>3) Mailman?s smtp log file says:?
.smtp for 4 recips, completed in 10.029 seconds ?
>4) Mailman?s smtp-failure log file says: ?SMTP session failure:501,
><listaquique-bounces at sempronlistas.com>: domain missing or malformed 
.?
>5) Nor exim?s mainlog nor exim?s reject log mention nothing about mailman trying
>to send the messages to the four members of the list
>6) Besides that, messages are correctly posted in the list?s archives (through
>the web)


The processing is getting all the way to SMTPDirect.py to send out the
posts. This says that Exim is properly configured to deliver incoming
mail to Mailman and Mailman's qrunners are running and processing the
queues. The problem is in sending outgoing mail via SMTP to the
outgoing MTA.


>It seems that mailman can?t send out the messages to the members of the list
>through exim. Furthermore, exim doesn?t even notice that mailman is trying to
>send outgoing mail through it (is mailman supposed to send the outgoing mail
>through exim?, or does it send it by himself (using the smtpd python module)?).


In the default case, mail is sent by the Mailman module
Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py. We know this is your case, because the
'smtp' and 'smtp-failure' logging is done only by this module. This
module uses Python's smtplib routines to deliver the mail via SMTP to
the SMTP server SMTPHOST:SMTPPORT. The defaults for these are

SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
SMTPPORT = 0

And SMTPPORT = 0 tells smtplib to use its default SMTP port which is
25. Thus mail is delivered by default via SMTP to the server on port
25 of localhost.

This server is responding with code 501 and error message
"<listaquique-bounces at sempronlistas.com>: domain missing or
malformed". In this case, <listaquique-bounces at sempronlistas.com> is
the envelope sender of the message and it appears that the server
doesn't like it.



>In the former case, I don?t know what interface mailman uses to send outgoing
>mail to exim:
>-Perhaps it uses batch mode, and perhaps this mode errors don?t figure on exim
>logs. 
>-I think that if mailman uses the smtp interface through the local loop, at
>least some error like ?domain missing or malformed? should appear on exim logs.


I think so too. I don't know why not


>I searched the domains involved and found that: 
>-the domains on the member?s addresses are all correct.
>-I don?t know what recipient figures when mailman sends mail to the members, but
>I suppose it?s listaquique at sempronlistas.com, which has an existent and
>correctly qualified domain.


The SMTP transaction will look like

MAIL FROM:<listaquique-bounces at sempronlistas.com>

and then the four 

RCPT TO:<member address>

and then

DATA

and the message. The default behavior is to not quit, but keep the
connection open. See the documentation in Defaults.py for
SMTP_MAX_RCPTS and SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION. Also note that
MAX_DELIVERY_THREADS is no longer used in current Mailman versions.


>It?s important to say that the problem also appears when running directly ?cat
>message |  mailman post listaquique? command, being such message, a valid
>message from a list member stored in a file. This leads me to think that it?s a
>mailman?s problem in sending outgoing mail, not an exim?s problem in contacting
>mailman when it identifies mail sent to  mailing-lists.


Yes, it is definitely a problem with Mailman sending outgoing messages
and not a problem with Exim delivering incoming mail to Mailman.
However, it may still be an Exim configuration problem.


> I give details of the different packages and system configuration:
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Exim configuration:
>------------------------
>As I said before, I don?t think the problem is exim, bust just in case here is
>some detail of the exim?s configuration I?m using:
>
>1) I?ve defined the four macros mentioned in the README.EXIM file:
>MAILMAN_HOME = /var/lib/mailman
>MAILMAN_WRAP = MAILMAN_HOME/mail/mailman
>MAILMAN_USER = list
>MAILMAN_GROUP = daemon


This all has to do with incoming mail which is working.


>2) I?ve included the mailman_transport and mailman_router mentioned in README.EXIM


Again, incoming I think.


>Also in a desperate attempt, I defined list (mailman?s system user) as a
>trusted-user (although I notice that wasn?t the problem because when I ?su list?
>from command line, I sent mail through exim perfectly). 


Try telnet to 'localhost' port 25 and see if you can send mail by
manually typing the

MAIL FROM:<listaquique-bounces at sempronlistas.com>
RCPT TO:
and
DATA
commands.


>
>Mailman configuration:
>----------------------------
>In mm_cfg.py I defined the following:
>
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = ?sempronlistas.com?
>DEFAULT_URL_-HOST = ?www.sempronmailman.com? # This is the url of the #localhost
>I use for mailman, which works perfectly well (I can access the web interface,
>#configure the list and also watch the posted messages)
>MTA = None #(I?ve also tried commenting this out with the same results)
>
>Searching the Defaults.py, I?ve found a SMTPPORT=0, which I changed to
>SMTPPORT=25 with the same results. 


That's because it's the same thing as I mentioned above.


>Mailman?s verifications:
>-----------------------------
>When I ran check_perms script, it says: ?No problems found? (obtaining this
>answer by running some chmod?s commands on some directories).
>When I ran check_db script, it says: ?Nothing to do?.
>
>
>Process details:
>------------------
>When I ran ?ps ?aux?, I can see the following process related with mailman, all
>running by the ?list? user:
>-mailmanctl
>-qrunner ?runner=ArchRunner
>-qrunner ?runner=BounceRunner
>-qrunner ?runner=CommandRunner
>-qrunner ?runner=IncommingRunner
>-qrunner ?runner=NewsRunner
>-qrunner ?runner=OutgoingRunner
>-qrunner ?runner=VirginRunner
>-qrunner ?runner=RetryRunner
>
>Cronjobs:
>-----------
>When I ran ?crontab ?u list -l?, it says: ?no crontab for list?. 
>
>As I understood reading the documentation, this is fine because the ?qrunners?
>alive in ram are supposed to remove mailman??s dependency on cron for sending
>messages.


For messages yes, but periodic digests rely on senddigests.


>Besides this, I read the crontab file, and all cronjobs were related to other
>purposes than to deliver messages to list members (checkdb, disabled,
>senddigests, mailpasswds, gate-news, nightly_gzip).


Yes, but they should run anyway except maybe gate-news.


>System aliases details:
>--------------------------
>Although I think this is unnecessary, because exim?s transport takes care of the
>suffixes when executing mailman?s commands, I defined all the system aliases
>required for ?listaquique? and ?mailman? lists in the /etc/aliases, and
>afterwords run ?newaliases? command.


Yes, it should be unnecessary, and this part is working anyway.


>Other questions:
>--------------------
>
>I wonder where I can access some mailman documentation so as to answer the
>following questions:
>
>I?ve read somewhere that milman uses an external MTA running on the localhost on
>port 25. Is this right or not? 


This is the default but can be vhanged via SMTPHOST and SMTPPORT.


>What does mailman has to do with de smtpd python module? What is that SMTPPORT=0
>on Defaults.py. Shouldn?t it be 25?


Mailman does not use Python's smtpd module. Mailman uses Pythons
smtplib to interact with an external SMTP server. SMTPPORT=0 is passed
to smtplib and tells smtplib to use its own SMTP default port (which
is 25). In this way, Mailman doesn't have to know what SMTP port to
use unless it is different from the standard.


>I understand that the existence of qrunners eliminates some mailman?s dependence
>on cron. Is this right?


Yes, but cron is still used for various things.


>Where can I read the mailman?s architecture? : What exactly each qrunner is
>supposed to do? Also: What is mailmanctl daemon supposed to do?


I learned Mailman's architecture by reading the code to find the
answers to questions people asked on this list. I don't know a better
way.

The qrunners process the queue entries. The mailmanctl process starts
and stops and monitors and communicates with the qrunner processes.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jwt at onjapan.net  Fri Oct 14 03:15:49 2005
From: jwt at onjapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 10:15:49 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qfiles/bounces
In-Reply-To: <434EDFC8.7070706@maddoc.net>
References: <434ECE52.2060602@maddoc.net>	<A33FB99C-44F1-4D52-930E-12852099E735@lerctr.org>	<434ED187.1060705@maddoc.net>	<E6BA7162-B4F3-4BEB-A838-8D7F5FD6044D@lerctr.org>	<434ED5BA.8060908@maddoc.net>
	<D8786D3B-FF07-4247-808D-83B9969085A1@lerctr.org>
	<434EDEC4.7030006@maddoc.net>
	<A03DE230-D4E2-4E7A-9BE5-D44128126F6C@lerctr.org>
	<434EDFC8.7070706@maddoc.net>
Message-ID: <808C93C1-CB5D-4C8C-96B2-52A6804D3690@onjapan.net>

On Oct 14, 2005, at 07:29, Doc Schneider wrote:

>>> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):      time.strftime('%d-%b-%Y',
>>> day + (0,)*6))
>>> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618): ValueError :  day of year  
>>> out  of
>>> range
>>>
>>> And it bombed.
>>>
>>> Any ideas on what is happening?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Python 2.4 and Mailman 2.1.5.
>>
>> Upgrade Mailman to 2.1.6 or downgrade Python to 2.3.
>>
>>
>
> Python 2.4.1 and MM 2.1.4 here.
>
> I'll try downgrading python

Or patch your Mailman installation to follow Python 2.4's stricter  
rules.

<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-March/043640.html>


-- 
Jim Tittsler     http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship  http://Starship.Python.net/crew/jwt/
Mailman IRC      irc://irc.freenode.net/#mailman





From pmw at qnan.org  Fri Oct 14 06:09:56 2005
From: pmw at qnan.org (Philip M. White)
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 23:09:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Modifying Mailman-generated virtuals file
Message-ID: <20051014040956.GM26225@qnan.org>

Hello, all.

I've recently reconfigured my mail setup to separate the namespace of
mailing lists versus regular users, so now both systems are considered
"virtual aliases" by Postfix.

Mailman works with this setup, but only after I edit its virtuals file
to contain, for example, `list1234 at localhost' instead of just
`list1234'.  Without this modification, Postfix rewrites the right-hand
side to originate from my domain name, after which the message is stuck
in the queue since the namespace separation prevents the new address
from being recognized.

So I wonder, is there any clean way of getting Mailman to append
`@localhost' to every virtuals line?

Thanks.
-- 
Philip
-------------- next part --------------
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From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Fri Oct 14 06:26:53 2005
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 00:26:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Modifying Mailman-generated virtuals file
In-Reply-To: <20051014040956.GM26225@qnan.org>
References: <20051014040956.GM26225@qnan.org>
Message-ID: <434F338D.8010306@wingfoot.org>

Philip M. White said the following on 10/14/2005 12:09 AM:

>Hello, all.
>
>I've recently reconfigured my mail setup to separate the namespace of
>mailing lists versus regular users, so now both systems are considered
>"virtual aliases" by Postfix.
>
>Mailman works with this setup, but only after I edit its virtuals file
>to contain, for example, `list1234 at localhost' instead of just
>`list1234'.  Without this modification, Postfix rewrites the right-hand
>side to originate from my domain name, after which the message is stuck
>in the queue since the namespace separation prevents the new address
>from being recognized.
>
>So I wonder, is there any clean way of getting Mailman to append
>`@localhost' to every virtuals line?
>  
>
Just guessing here..

Check the files in mailman/Mailman/MTA/ --They're probably good starting
points...

Best,
--Glenn

-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary 
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." 
          ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759



From samarta at ci.uc.pt  Fri Oct 14 10:48:18 2005
From: samarta at ci.uc.pt (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=E3o_S=E1_Marta?=)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:48:18 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pending posts not found
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510130823010734a17330ff@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20051014084424.4B7574A8132@teste-d.ci.uc.pt>

Greetings,

Thanks for your help.

I have looked for /home/mailman/lists/list_name/request.pck and used dumpbd
and the results were:
[----- start pickle file -----]
<----- start object 1 ----->
{'version': (0, 1)}
[----- end pickle file -----]

It seems like all the others empty request.pck

I have the taught that the problem has something to do with the file
pending.pck .
I have renamed it to pending.pck_old but the list administrator is still
receiving the messages.
Dumping the pending.pck_old I have got:

# /home/mailman/bin/dumpdb -p list_name/pending.pck_old 
[----- start pickle file -----]
<----- start object 1 ----->
{   '69f90cb9b45a06ea26b00b077b0081aa41ca2a7f': ('H', 16),
    'e35a5115012465a78de239928742969ba8bfb9b4': ('H', 15),
    'evictions': {   '69f90cb9b45a06ea26b00b077b0081aa41ca2a7f':
1128885960.0321629,
                     'e35a5115012465a78de239928742969ba8bfb9b4':
1128632750.38288},
    'version': 2}
[----- end pickle file -----] 


I don't have any idea where to look for those messages, and I  am a bit
confused because I have renamed the pending.pck file (maybe I have to delete
the file ?)


Thanks again,


===============================|===================================
= Joao Sa Marta                |          Email: samarta at ci.uc.pt =
= Centro de Informatica        |        Tel: 239 853178 (directo) =
= da Universidade de           |          Tel: 239 853170 (Geral) =
= Coimbra                      |                  Fax: 239 853189 =
= Apartado 3080                | http://www.uc.pt/pessoal/samarta =
= 3001-401 Coimbra             |                                  =
===============================|===================================

> -----Mensagem original-----
> De: mailman-users-bounces+samarta=ci.uc.pt at python.org [mailto:mailman-
> users-bounces+samarta=ci.uc.pt at python.org] Em nome de Mark Sapiro
> Enviada: quinta-feira, 13 de Outubro de 2005 16:23
> Para: Jo?o S? Marta; 'Mailman Users'
> Cc: samarta at ci.uc.pt
> Assunto: Re: [Mailman-Users] Pending posts not found
> 
> Jo?o S? Marta wrote:
> >
> >Every day, the moderator of one of our mailman lists receives a message
> >telling him  that his mailing list "has 2 request(s) waiting for your
> >consideration at:
> >
> >	http://..../mailman/admindb/maillist_name
> >
> >Please attend to this at your earliest convenience.  This notice of
> pending
> >requests, if any, will be sent out daily.
> >
> >
> >Pending posts:
> >From: teriquinn at antisrichinmoy.com on Mon Aug 22 08:51:59 2005
> >Subject: 100's of titles by MS 2003 MS 2003 & Windows starting @ 9.99
> >Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list
> >"
> >
> >
> >But, in the maillist administration page there are no pending posts.
> >
> >As I am the system manger, where can I look for such "phantom" posts in
> >order to delete them ?
> >
> >I am using Mailman 2.1.5
> 
> lists/maillist_name/request.pck is where the requests are. You can
> replace it with an 'empty' one from another list, or look at it with
> bin/dumpdb if you want to see more.
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-
> users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-
> users/samarta%40ci.uc.pt
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-
> mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From dpifer at odu.edu  Fri Oct 14 14:06:02 2005
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 08:06:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List archive failures
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510131642490921c543846a@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200510131642490921c543846a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1129291562.12780.5.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

Thanks Mark. That did it. In mm_cfg.py, PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL was set to
'/list-archives'. I changed it to:

PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'http://%(hostname)s/list-archives/%(listname)s'
since we do not use pipermail. We may do so in the future.

Darren
ODU

On Thu, 2005-10-13 at 19:42, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Darren G Pifer wrote:
> >
> >      I wrote this one off too soon. This problem still exists
> >even though I thought it was fixed. While looking at a list serve using
> >a browser, the link shows:
> >
> >http://list.odu.edu/listarchives
> >
> >when I would expect something like:
> >
> >http://list.odu.edu/listarchives/listname
> 
> Look at your setting for PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL in mm_cfg.py. The default
> in Defaults.py is
> 
> PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'http://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s''http://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'
> 
> You have clearly changed at least the 'pipermail' part of this. Did you
> somehow mess up the '%(listname)s' in the process?
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 



From micaho at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 16:54:44 2005
From: micaho at gmail.com (micah milano)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 10:54:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman to postfix hideously slow
Message-ID: <70fda320510140754h73230b7fhe28b6ae86380d065@mail.gmail.com>

I know I must have something wrong, but no amount of reading
newsgroups, FAQs, googling, asking on IRC, or trying random things has
produced any results.

Mailman's handoff to postfix, on this machine, is hideously slow.

If I run a simple newlist command, the actual delivery of the "Your
new mailing list" email takes over an hour to be actually sent. If I
send a normail mail (outside of mailman), it is sent instantly.
Messages I send to a list with only me as a subscriber take a very
long time (45 minutes or more) to be sent out, they appear in the
archives quickly.

In logs/post I see:
...smtp for 188 recips, completed in 2517.916 seconds

There seem to be a number of failures in logs/smtp-failures, like:

All recipients refused: {'rochaja at infonet.co.br': (450,
'<rochaja at infonet.co.br>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not
found')

(this domain is indeed bad, and I removed it from the list), could
mailman be bogged down on these failures?

There are 33 qfiles in qfiles/out, the oldest being 2 hours ago, it
just doesn't seem like mailman is processing those very quickly, it
seems that something is really slow in transferring messages to my
MTA.

Mailman has a connection to my MTA, I can see that in netstat, it is
running fine (and restarting it doesn't unclog things).

If I connect to my MTA with telnet from the host that mailman is
running on and do a manual mail insertion it happens immediately, and
the delivery of that message is immediate. If I try and insert a
message to a bad address, I instantly get back the message: 450
<rochaja at infonet.co.br>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found

This is mailman 2.1.5-8 from debian sarge, postfix 2.1.5-9 from sarge,
there is a local caching nameserver, my mm_cfg.py has these set:

SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 10
DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'postfix.egg.com'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'mailman.egg.com'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en'
USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER    = 0              # Still used?
DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = 0
MTA=None
DEB_LISTMASTER = 'postmaster at egg.com'
SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 10
SMTPHOST = 'postfix.egg.com'
SMTPPORT = 25                                      # default from smtplib
VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Yes

/etc/hosts
69.90.134.223   postfix postfix.egg.com localhost

postconf -n
access_map_reject_code = 554
alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases
alias_maps = $alias_database, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
allow_percent_hack = no
allow_untrusted_routing = no
append_at_myorigin = yes
append_dot_mydomain = no
biff = no
body_checks = pcre:$checks_dir/body_checks
body_checks_size_limit = 51200
broken_sasl_auth_clients = yes
command_directory = /usr/sbin
config_directory = /etc/postfix
content_filter = smtp-amavis:[127.0.0.1]:10024
daemon_directory = /usr/lib/postfix
debug_peer_level = 2
default_destination_concurrency_limit = 20
default_privs = mail
default_process_limit = 75
disable_vrfy_command = yes
header_checks = pcre:$checks_dir/header_checks
home_mailbox = Maildir/
in_flow_delay = 1s
local_destination_concurrency_limit = 2
local_destination_recipient_limit = 1
local_recipient_maps = $alias_maps, proxy:unix:passwd.byname
mail_owner = postfix
mailbox_size_limit = 0
mailq_path = /usr/bin/mailq
manpage_directory = /usr/local/man
maximal_backoff_time = 2d
mime_header_checks = pcre:$checks_dir/mime_header_checks
minimal_backoff_time = 1000s
mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost, postfix,
autoreply.egg.com
mydomain = egg.com
myhostname = postfix.egg.com
mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8, 69.90.134.221, 69.90.134.229, 69.90.134.228,
69.90.134.227, 69.90.134.226, 69.90.134.225, 69.90.134.224,
69.90.134.223
, 69.90.134.222, 69.90.134.230, 69.90.134.198, 69.90.134.234,
69.90.134.235, 69.90.134.237
myorigin = /etc/mailname
nested_header_checks = $header_checks
newaliases_path = /usr/bin/newaliases
owner_request_special = no
qmgr_message_active_limit = 20000
queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix
readme_directory = no
recipient_delimiter = +
relay_domains = lists.egg.com
sample_directory = /etc/postfix
sendmail_path = /usr/sbin/sendmail
setgid_group = postdrop
smtp_tls_CAfile = $tls_dir/mail2004.pem
smtp_tls_cert_file = $tls_dir/mail2004.pem
smtp_tls_key_file = $tls_dir/mailkey.pem
smtp_tls_per_site = hash:$tls_dir/tls_per_site
smtp_tls_session_cache_database = sdbm:$tls_dir/smtp_scache
smtp_use_tls = yes
smtpd_banner = $myhostname ESMTP (spam is not permitted)
smtpd_client_restrictions = permit_mynetworks,  check_client_access
hash:$checks_dir/access_client,     permit
smtpd_data_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, reject_unauth_pipelining 
      permit
smtpd_delay_reject = no
smtpd_helo_required = yes
smtpd_helo_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, reject_invalid_hostname, 
      permit
smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_sasl_authenticated, 
reject_non_fqdn_recipient,      reject_unknown_sender_domain,
reject_unknown_recipient_domain,        permit_mynetworks, 
reject_unauth_destination,  reject_invalid_hostname,        permit
smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
smtpd_sasl_local_domain = $myhostname
smtpd_sasl_security_options = noanonymous
smtpd_sender_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, 
permit_sasl_authenticated,      reject_invalid_hostname,
reject_unknown_sender_domain,  check_sender_access
hash:$checks_dir/access,     check_helo_access
hash:$checks_dir/helo_checks, reject_non_fqdn_sender,
reject_rbl_client list.dsbl.org,        reject_rbl_client
opm.blitzed.org,        reject_rbl_client relays.ordb.org,       
reject_rbl_client cbl.abuseat.org,  permit
smtpd_tls_CAfile = $tls_dir/mail2004.pem
smtpd_tls_auth_only = yes
smtpd_tls_cert_file = $tls_dir/mail2004.pem
smtpd_tls_key_file = $tls_dir/mailkey.pem
smtpd_tls_loglevel = 1
smtpd_tls_received_header = yes
smtpd_tls_session_cache_database = sdbm:$tls_dir/smtpd_scache
smtpd_use_tls = yes
swap_bangpath = no
tls_daemon_random_source = dev:/dev/urandom
tls_random_source = dev:/dev/urandom
transport_maps = hash:$maps_dir/transport
virtual_alias_maps = proxy:mysql:$maps_dir/virtual_aliases.cf
virtual_gid_maps = static:104
virtual_mailbox_base = /
virtual_mailbox_domains = proxy:mysql:$maps_dir/virtual_domains.cf
virtual_mailbox_limit = 51200000
virtual_mailbox_maps = mysql:$maps_dir/virtual_mailboxes.cf
virtual_minimum_uid = 101
virtual_transport = virtual
virtual_uid_maps = static:101

Thanks for any insight into what could be causing this, its driving me insane.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 14 16:59:13 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 07:59:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pending posts not found
In-Reply-To: <20051014084424.4B7574A8132@teste-d.ci.uc.pt>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510140759130437a0552fe2@msapiro>

Jo?o S? Marta wrote:
>
>I have looked for /home/mailman/lists/list_name/request.pck and used =
>dumpbd
>and the results were:
>[----- start pickle file -----]
><----- start object 1 ----->
>{'version': (0, 1)}
>[----- end pickle file -----]


This is exactly what an 'empty' request.pck looks like.


>It seems like all the others empty request.pck


If you have other lists with truly empty request.pck files (i.e.,
without the 'version' object) these will cause '-1 requests' notices
to be sent. You can fix that by replacing the request.pck with the one
above.


>I have the taught that the problem has something to do with the file
>pending.pck .
>I have renamed it to pending.pck_old but the list administrator is still
>receiving the messages.
>Dumping the pending.pck_old I have got:
>
># /home/mailman/bin/dumpdb -p list_name/pending.pck_old=20
>[----- start pickle file -----]
><----- start object 1 ----->
>{   '69f90cb9b45a06ea26b00b077b0081aa41ca2a7f': ('H', 16),
>    'e35a5115012465a78de239928742969ba8bfb9b4': ('H', 15),
>    'evictions': {   '69f90cb9b45a06ea26b00b077b0081aa41ca2a7f':
>1128885960.0321629,
>                     'e35a5115012465a78de239928742969ba8bfb9b4':
>1128632750.38288},
>    'version': 2}
>[----- end pickle file -----]=20


These are confirmation tokens for a couple of held messages, but they
are both expired and they don't have any involvement with the
'requests waiting' email in any case.


>I don't have any idea where to look for those messages, and I  am a bit
>confused because I have renamed the pending.pck file (maybe I have to =
>delete
>the file ?)


The pending.pck file has nothing to do with the problem.

My guess at this point is you have a prior Mailman installation with
its own lists/, Mailman/, etc. directories somewhere on your system
and the crontab is still pointing to the old checkdbs which is
therefore looking at the wrong list/listname/request.pck.

What happens if you just run cron/checkdbs from the command line? Does
it send the spurious notice?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 14 17:10:14 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 08:10:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman to postfix hideously slow
In-Reply-To: <70fda320510140754h73230b7fhe28b6ae86380d065@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020051014081014053189a4e961@msapiro>

micah milano wrote:
>
>Mailman's handoff to postfix, on this machine, is hideously slow.
>
>If I run a simple newlist command, the actual delivery of the "Your
>new mailing list" email takes over an hour to be actually sent. If I
>send a normail mail (outside of mailman), it is sent instantly.
>Messages I send to a list with only me as a subscriber take a very
>long time (45 minutes or more) to be sent out, they appear in the
>archives quickly.
>
>In logs/post I see:
>...smtp for 188 recips, completed in 2517.916 seconds
>
>There seem to be a number of failures in logs/smtp-failures, like:
>
>All recipients refused: {'rochaja at infonet.co.br': (450,
>'<rochaja at infonet.co.br>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not
>found')
>
>(this domain is indeed bad, and I removed it from the list), could
>mailman be bogged down on these failures?
>
>There are 33 qfiles in qfiles/out, the oldest being 2 hours ago, it
>just doesn't seem like mailman is processing those very quickly, it
>seems that something is really slow in transferring messages to my
>MTA.
>
>Mailman has a connection to my MTA, I can see that in netstat, it is
>running fine (and restarting it doesn't unclog things).
>
>If I connect to my MTA with telnet from the host that mailman is
>running on and do a manual mail insertion it happens immediately, and
>the delivery of that message is immediate. If I try and insert a
>message to a bad address, I instantly get back the message: 450
><rochaja at infonet.co.br>: Recipient address rejected: Domain not found
>
>This is mailman 2.1.5-8 from debian sarge, postfix 2.1.5-9 from sarge,
>there is a local caching nameserver, my mm_cfg.py has these set:
>
>SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 10
>DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'postfix.egg.com'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'mailman.egg.com'
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en'
>USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER    = 0              # Still used?
>DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = 0
>MTA=None
>DEB_LISTMASTER = 'postmaster at egg.com'
>SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 10
>SMTPHOST = 'postfix.egg.com'
>SMTPPORT = 25                                      # default from smtplib
>VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Yes



This is a shot in the dark, but try

SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION = 1

in mm_cfg.py


>/etc/hosts
>69.90.134.223   postfix postfix.egg.com localhost
>
>postconf -n
<snip>

I don't speak postfix and can't comment on it's configuration.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 14 17:47:15 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 08:47:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Modifying Mailman-generated virtuals file
In-Reply-To: <20051014040956.GM26225@qnan.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510140847150765a055312c@msapiro>

Philip M. White wrote:
>
>So I wonder, is there any clean way of getting Mailman to append
>`@localhost' to every virtuals line?

I'm a little confused here. If you have MTA = 'Postfix' in mm_cfg.py,
Mailman uses the Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py to update the 'aliases' and
'virtual-mailman' files when creating or deleting a list.

On creation, Postfix.py checks the host_name of the list and if it is
in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS, it adds entries to the
'virtual-mailman' file that look like listname at host_name,
listname-bounces at host_name, etc.

It looks to me as though if you create a list with host_name (email
host) of 'localhost', you get what you want as long as 'localhost' is
in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS in mm_cfg.py. Perhaps there are
reasons why this won't work in your case, but I don't understand why
the entries don't have '@something' appended in any case.

If creating the list with host_name of 'localhost' is not a solution,
and I can see that it may well not be becauses of the other uses of
host_name, the only alternative is to modify Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py.
You can do this 'cleanly' by storing the modified version as (e.g.)
Mailman/MTA/localPostfix.py and then putting MTA = 'localPostfix' in
mm_cfg.py. In this way, your modified version will not be overwritten
when Mailman is upgraded.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From micaho at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 18:23:51 2005
From: micaho at gmail.com (micah milano)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:23:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman to postfix hideously slow
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051014081014053189a4e961@msapiro>
References: <70fda320510140754h73230b7fhe28b6ae86380d065@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC174020051014081014053189a4e961@msapiro>
Message-ID: <70fda320510140923r79ef6a91lc2ac0c2e9190f440@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/14/05, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> This is a shot in the dark, but try
>
> SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION = 1
>
> in mm_cfg.py

I put it in and restarted everything, doesn't seem to have changed
anything... still waiting for my test message to be delivered. :(


From ssorensen at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 18:36:44 2005
From: ssorensen at gmail.com (Svend Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:36:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] All *-admin Addresses Bouncing
In-Reply-To: <p06200741bf6cb7c40fed@172.16.1.3>
References: <7ff9c2a10510051030n1bf24895off74994bcebf9580@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200510051847530734cceec7b3@msapiro>
	<7ff9c2a10510071557g2ad93c6dg5c8679fcfe5f6564@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06200741bf6cb7c40fed@172.16.1.3>
Message-ID: <7ff9c2a10510140936x69433d2an65c65dcf4062f17d@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/7/05, Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote:
> At 3:57 PM -0700 2005-10-07, Svend Sorensen wrote:
>
> >  I see.  Mailman still lists the *-admin aliases when creating a list,
> >  so this behavior is somewhat confusing.  If *-admin is depreciated,
> >  can all the *-admin aliases be removed?
>
>         If you're using Mailman 2.0.x, then you still need to keep those
> -admin addresses.  If you're using Mailman 2.1.x, then it sounds like
> you've got some scripts left over from a previous 2.0.x installation,
> and you need to get things cleaned up before you go too much longer.
>
>         Once you're fully cleaned up and no 2.0.x scripts are left lying
> around, you can delete all the old -admin aliases.

Sorry for the late reply.  This machine never had any Mailman 2.0
series installed.


From mok at kde.ru  Fri Oct 14 18:31:47 2005
From: mok at kde.ru (Gregory Mokhin)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:31:47 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman to postfix hideously slow
In-Reply-To: <70fda320510140754h73230b7fhe28b6ae86380d065@mail.gmail.com>
References: <70fda320510140754h73230b7fhe28b6ae86380d065@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <diomhp$bnh$1@sea.gmane.org>

Did you try

DELIVERY_MODULE = 'Sendmail'?

If it is faster, then probably postfix does some unnecessary DNS lookups.

Regards,
Gregory


micah milano wrote:
> 
> SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 10
> DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'postfix.egg.com'
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'mailman.egg.com'
> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'en'
> USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER    = 0              # Still used?
> DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = 0
> MTA=None
> DEB_LISTMASTER = 'postmaster at egg.com'
> SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 10
> SMTPHOST = 'postfix.egg.com'
> SMTPPORT = 25                                      # default from smtplib
> VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Yes
> 



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 14 18:42:47 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:42:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman to postfix hideously slow
In-Reply-To: <70fda320510140923r79ef6a91lc2ac0c2e9190f440@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020051014094247032855bb4937@msapiro>

micah milano wrote:
>
>I put it in and restarted everything, doesn't seem to have changed
>anything... still waiting for my test message to be delivered. :(

I looked at your postfix config from your original post, and while I
don't fully understand it, I see "reject_unknown_recipient_domain,".
The FAQ at
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.011.htp
says "* Configure your MTA to not do DNS verifies on receipt from
localhost. Most MTAs default to doing verifies by default. Leaving
that turned on will slow delivery rates from mailman to your MTA
significantly, especially for larger lists." I wouldn't really expect
this to be the problem here since your messages have few recipients,
but it is something to look at.

I assume you've checked postfix logs.

In addition to the above FAQ, see 6.4 and 6.6

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pmw at qnan.org  Fri Oct 14 19:46:57 2005
From: pmw at qnan.org (Philip M. White)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 12:46:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Modifying Mailman-generated virtuals file
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510140847150765a055312c@msapiro>
References: <20051014040956.GM26225@qnan.org>
	<PC1740200510140847150765a055312c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20051014174657.GB21299@qnan.org>

On Fri, Oct 14, 2005 at 08:47:15AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Philip M. White wrote:
> >
> >So I wonder, is there any clean way of getting Mailman to append
> >`@localhost' to every virtuals line?
> 
> I'm a little confused here. If you have MTA = 'Postfix' in mm_cfg.py,
> Mailman uses the Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py to update the 'aliases' and
> 'virtual-mailman' files when creating or deleting a list.
> 
> On creation, Postfix.py checks the host_name of the list and if it is
> in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS, it adds entries to the
> 'virtual-mailman' file that look like listname at host_name,
> listname-bounces at host_name, etc.
> 
> It looks to me as though if you create a list with host_name (email
> host) of 'localhost', you get what you want as long as 'localhost' is
> in POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS in mm_cfg.py. Perhaps there are
> reasons why this won't work in your case, but I don't understand why
> the entries don't have '@something' appended in any case.
> 
> If creating the list with host_name of 'localhost' is not a solution,
> and I can see that it may well not be becauses of the other uses of
> host_name, the only alternative is to modify Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py.
> You can do this 'cleanly' by storing the modified version as (e.g.)
> Mailman/MTA/localPostfix.py and then putting MTA = 'localPostfix' in
> mm_cfg.py. In this way, your modified version will not be overwritten
> when Mailman is upgraded.

I think there is confusion here.  Originally, my virtuals file looks
like:
cs1234 at list.qnan.org              cs1234

Once the switchover to `cs1234' happens, the alias file should take
care to pipe it to the necessary command.  However, this is a problem
for me, since by default Postfix will resolve `cs1234' to
cs1234 at qnan.org.  The key here is that qnan.org is another virtual
aliases setup, so Postfix does not look at Mailman's alias file.  It
looks at qnan.org's dedicated alias file (which only contains local
system users), does not find the `cs1234' entry, and fails with a
'user does not exist in relay table' error.

The reason this happens is that Postfix's mynetworks is only configured
for localhost and localhost.$mydomain, and the reason for /that/ is that
in trying to achieve a namespace separation for qnan.org and
list.qnan.org, the Postfix mailing list recommended the solution of
splitting both away from Postfix's "core" configuration into separate
virtual aliases.

My solution to the lookup problem is to change the virtuals file to:
cs1234 at list.qnan.org              cs1234 at localhost

This forces Postfix to examine the mynetworks' set of aliases, match a
cs1234 entry of Mailman's alias file, and pipe the message to the
correct command.

So, my goal is to get Postfix to add `@localhost' to the right-hand
side, not the left.

Philip
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From rtparies at gmail.com  Fri Oct 14 20:29:40 2005
From: rtparies at gmail.com (Randy Paries)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:29:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] just setting up list for first time. Can not figure
	out one thing
Message-ID: <df6e4b490510141129s3849b4dasad3092a7cee95a0e@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I have got my list working , but the one thing i can not figure out is
that when i am testing the original poster does not get a copy of the
message they posted back through the list

please can someone tell me where i set that

Thanks
Randy


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 14 20:32:11 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 11:32:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Modifying Mailman-generated virtuals file
In-Reply-To: <20051014174657.GB21299@qnan.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510141132110453a63360f0@msapiro>

Philip M. White wrote:
>
>I think there is confusion here.  Originally, my virtuals file looks
>like:
>cs1234 at list.qnan.org              cs1234


Yes, I didn't look carefully enough at the code the first time. I see
it now.

The only way to fix this so the entries look like

cs1234 at list.qnan.org              cs1234 at localhost

is to patch Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py similarly to:

--- Postfix.py  2003-03-31 13:49:43.000000000 -0800
+++ localPostfix.py     2005-10-14 11:09:02.468750000 -0700
@@ -146,8 +146,9 @@
     # Now add all the standard alias entries
     for k, v in makealiases(listname):
         fqdnaddr = '%s@%s' % (k, hostname)
+        localaddr = '%s at localhost' % k
         # Format the text file nicely
-        print >> fp, fqdnaddr, ((fieldsz - len(k)) * ' '), k
+        print >> fp, fqdnaddr, ((fieldsz - len(k)) * ' '), localaddr
     # Finish the text file stanza
     print >> fp, '# STANZA END:', listname
     print >> fp

As I said in my previous post:

> You can do this 'cleanly' by storing the modified version as (e.g.)
> Mailman/MTA/localPostfix.py and then putting MTA = 'localPostfix' in
> mm_cfg.py. In this way, your modified version will not be overwritten
> when Mailman is upgraded.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 14 20:58:29 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 11:58:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] just setting up list for first time. Can not
	figureout one thing
In-Reply-To: <df6e4b490510141129s3849b4dasad3092a7cee95a0e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005101411582908285f5af179@msapiro>

Randy Paries wrote:
>
>I have got my list working , but the one thing i can not figure out is
>that when i am testing the original poster does not get a copy of the
>message they posted back through the list
>
>please can someone tell me where i set that

It is a per subscriber option. The default setting for new subscribers
is on the General Options page, new_member_options, [] Do not send a
copy of a member's own post.

For existing subscribers it is the 'not metoo' option on Membership
Management...->Membership List or the 'Receive your own posts to the
list?' option on the member's own options page.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From maddoc at maddoc.net  Fri Oct 14 21:43:24 2005
From: maddoc at maddoc.net (Doc Schneider)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:43:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qfiles/bounces
In-Reply-To: <808C93C1-CB5D-4C8C-96B2-52A6804D3690@onjapan.net>
References: <434ECE52.2060602@maddoc.net>	<A33FB99C-44F1-4D52-930E-12852099E735@lerctr.org>	<434ED187.1060705@maddoc.net>	<E6BA7162-B4F3-4BEB-A838-8D7F5FD6044D@lerctr.org>	<434ED5BA.8060908@maddoc.net>
	<D8786D3B-FF07-4247-808D-83B9969085A1@lerctr.org>
	<434EDEC4.7030006@maddoc.net>
	<A03DE230-D4E2-4E7A-9BE5-D44128126F6C@lerctr.org>
	<434EDFC8.7070706@maddoc.net>
	<808C93C1-CB5D-4C8C-96B2-52A6804D3690@onjapan.net>
Message-ID: <43500A5C.4040609@maddoc.net>

Jim Tittsler wrote:
> On Oct 14, 2005, at 07:29, Doc Schneider wrote:
> 
>>>> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618):      time.strftime('%d-%b-%Y',
>>>> day + (0,)*6))
>>>> Oct 13 17:12:27 2005 qrunner(20618): ValueError :  day of year  out  of
>>>> range
>>>>
>>>> And it bombed.
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas on what is happening?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Python 2.4 and Mailman 2.1.5.
>>>
>>> Upgrade Mailman to 2.1.6 or downgrade Python to 2.3.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Python 2.4.1 and MM 2.1.4 here.
>>
>> I'll try downgrading python
> 
> 
> Or patch your Mailman installation to follow Python 2.4's stricter  rules.
> 
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-March/043640.html>
> 
> 

For those interested I did upgrade to MM 2.1.6 and back to Python 2.4.1 
last night.

Thanks to all who replied and gave help/suggestions.


-Doc


From dpifer at odu.edu  Fri Oct 14 22:28:22 2005
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 16:28:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with unsubscribe to list
Message-ID: <1129321701.12780.76.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

We have been having problems with people unsubscribing messages to one
of our lists. People on the list have been sending mail to the list, ie.
list at list.odu.edu, instead of list-request at list.odu.edu. The
administrator of the list has been getting these unsubscribes also but
the list was configured this way. 

Here are some of the headers from the queue file.

H??Message-ID: <434FF47A.5050604 at ksu.edu>
H??Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:10:02 -0500
H??From: Joe User <juser at ksu.edu>
H??User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
        rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910
H??X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
H??MIME-Version: 1.0
H??To: fubar at list.odu.edu
H??Subject: Removal from list
H??X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 128.82.224.114
H??X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 128.82.224.114
H??X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:34:02 -0400
H??X-BeenThere: fubar at list.odu.edu
H??X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6b4
H??Precedence: list
H??Reply-To: testuser at odu.edu
H??List-Id: Newsletter <fubar.list.odu.edu>
H??List-Unsubscribe: <http://list.odu.edu/listinfo/fubar>,
        <mailto:fubar-request at list.odu.edu?subject=unsubscribe>
H??List-Archive: <http://list.odu.edu/list-archives/fubar>
H??List-Post: <mailto:fubar at list.odu.edu>
H??List-Help: <mailto:fubar-request at list.odu.edu?subject=help>
H??List-Subscribe: <http://list.odu.edu/listinfo/fubar>,
        <mailto:fubar-request at list.odu.edu?subject=subscribe>

What might be causing this is that the list owner's email address is
testuser at odu.edu, a mail alias (changed to protect the innocent) instead
of the administrator's own email address. This list is the only one of
the hundreds we have that is causing this problem.

Has anyone come across this? This is causing a lot of heartburn
especially with the list administrator, who is getting a lot of
complaints and getting the unsubscribes as well, but that is expected.

Darren




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 14 23:08:23 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:08:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with unsubscribe to list
In-Reply-To: <1129321701.12780.76.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC174020051014140823079655bb4af3@msapiro>

Darren G Pifer wrote:

>We have been having problems with people unsubscribing messages to one
>of our lists. People on the list have been sending mail to the list, ie.
>list at list.odu.edu, instead of list-request at list.odu.edu. The
>administrator of the list has been getting these unsubscribes also but
>the list was configured this way. 
>
>Here are some of the headers from the queue file.
>
>H??Message-ID: <434FF47A.5050604 at ksu.edu>
>H??Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 13:10:02 -0500
>H??From: Joe User <juser at ksu.edu>
>H??User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
>        rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20040910
>H??X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
>H??MIME-Version: 1.0
>H??To: fubar at list.odu.edu
>H??Subject: Removal from list
>H??X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 128.82.224.114
>H??X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 128.82.224.114
>H??X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:34:02 -0400
>H??X-BeenThere: fubar at list.odu.edu
>H??X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6b4
>H??Precedence: list
>H??Reply-To: testuser at odu.edu
>H??List-Id: Newsletter <fubar.list.odu.edu>
>H??List-Unsubscribe: <http://list.odu.edu/listinfo/fubar>,
>        <mailto:fubar-request at list.odu.edu?subject=unsubscribe>
>H??List-Archive: <http://list.odu.edu/list-archives/fubar>
>H??List-Post: <mailto:fubar at list.odu.edu>
>H??List-Help: <mailto:fubar-request at list.odu.edu?subject=help>
>H??List-Subscribe: <http://list.odu.edu/listinfo/fubar>,
>        <mailto:fubar-request at list.odu.edu?subject=subscribe>
>
>What might be causing this is that the list owner's email address is
>testuser at odu.edu, a mail alias (changed to protect the innocent) instead
>of the administrator's own email address. This list is the only one of
>the hundreds we have that is causing this problem.
>
>Has anyone come across this? This is causing a lot of heartburn
>especially with the list administrator, who is getting a lot of
>complaints and getting the unsubscribes as well, but that is expected.

What am I missing. Is this not just a case of clueless list members
trying to get off the list by mailing to the list?

Are you saying that the list has administrivia set to yes and messages
are being caught as potential administrative requests AND being
forwarded to the list anyway, or is it just that some messages to the
list are not being caught as administrivia?

WRT the specific headers above, it looks like the message was sent to
the list, held and then approved for posting to the list
(X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 14:34:02 -0400).

Note that messages are only held for administrivia if the subject or
one of the first 5 body lines looks like something that would be a
valid command if sent to the -request address. If this is the case,
the message is held. If it is subsequently approved, it goes to the
list. If the admin determines that the held message is an
administrative request, the admin should reject the message.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From gamelover9001 at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 15 00:50:00 2005
From: gamelover9001 at yahoo.com (game lover)
Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 15:50:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can we use an external mail server with mailman
	?
In-Reply-To: <43354DD3.9186.238892A@localhost>
Message-ID: <20051014225000.18635.qmail@web32203.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

This is a topic I am interested in.  But can someone summarize these codes to make them simple so most people can following them easily?
 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.FreeGame123.com  All the games are free to play online.  Playing is the best way of learning.
 
 


"Lloyd F. Tennison" <lists at viplist.us> wrote:Actually, I found a mod someone had written to do exactly that. 

In mm_cfg.py need to set these values:

SMTPHOST = 'mail.newserver'
#SMTP_USERNAME = 'username'
#SMTP_PASSWORD = 'password'
#DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
DELIVERY_MODULE = 'ASMTPDirect'
# Needs to be 1 for ASMTPDirect to work
SMTP_AUTH = 1

and use the attached ASMTPDirect file.

I no longer use this, so this has not been updated to 2.16, so you mau want 
to check it all out.

The was orginally received from someone else on this list, so I do not take 
credit for it.






From: John Dennis 
To: julien grosjean 
Date sent: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:53:12 -0400
Copies to: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Can we use an external mail server with mailman
?

> On Fri, 2005-09-23 at 16:27 +0200, julien grosjean wrote:
> > MAIL SERVER DETAILS
> > 
> > My Mail Server is NOT on the same server than my mailman server...
> > My mail server is proxiad.com (217.109.179.10) with smtp.proxiad.com and 
> > pop.proxiad.com (This server requiert an authentification... )
> > 
> > My mailman server is extranet-proxiad.com (193.252.219.206)
> > 
> > All emails are create on the mail server.
> > The mail server receive the mail correctly.
> > With my mail client, test at proxiad.com receive the mail, but not 
> > suscribers...
> 
> > THE PROBLEM :
> > 
> > I create a test list via web interface.
> > 
> > We can suscribe to the list, but the problem is than when we sent an
> > email to the list email, such as test at proxiad.com,
> > just this email receive the mail...
> > Only test at proxiad.com receive the mail from the sender...
> > Is there a configuration to make ?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Perhaps there is an aliases problem ?
> > 
> > Should aliases be on the mail server or on the mailman server ?
> 
> Part of the problem is the term mail server can be confusing because
> there are two mail servers in the picture, a receiving mail server and a
> sending mail server. Mailman needs run on the same machine the receiving
> mail server is on otherwise your aliases will not work. The reason is
> because when the receving mail server receives an email destined for a
> mailman list the mail server will via its aliases determine the
> destination for that list email is a program called mailman, thats what
> all those aliases are all about. The receiving mail server then hands
> the incoming list email to the program mailman. It can only give it to
> the program mailman if mailman is running on the same machine.
> 
> Mailman in turn takes the email it received and looks up all the members
> of the list and forwards the email to each of them. To do this mailman
> invokes a sending mail server. Often the sending and receiving mail
> servers (SMTP) are the same and run on the same box. But you can direct
> mailman to use a different sending SMTP server via the SMTPHOST
> variable.
> 
> Summary: mailman and the receiving SMTP server must be on the same
> machine.
> 
> You description is a bit confusing because the way I read it mailman has
> in fact received the list email (your previous post shows mailman
> sending smtp posts). It could only have done that if it the its running
> on the same machine as the receiving SMTP server and the aliaes are
> correct. I suspect what actually occurred is those are examples from
> mail sent on the machine mailman is running on where everything will
> resolve correctly.
> -- 
> John Dennis 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lists%40viplist.us
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> 



# Copyright (C) 1998-2003 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
# modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
# as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
# of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
#
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the
# GNU General Public License for more details.
#
# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
# along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
# Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA.

"""Local SMTP direct drop-off w/Authtenication.

This module delivers messages via SMTP to a locally specified daemon. This
should be compatible with any modern SMTP server. It is expected that the MTA
handles all final delivery. We have to play tricks so that the list object
isn't locked while delivery occurs synchronously.

Note: This file only handles single threaded delivery. See SMTPThreaded.py
for a threaded implementation.
"""

import copy
import time
import socket
import smtplib
from types import UnicodeType

from Mailman import mm_cfg
from Mailman import Utils
from Mailman import Errors
from Mailman.Handlers import Decorate
from Mailman.Logging.Syslog import syslog
from Mailman.SafeDict import MsgSafeDict

import email
from email.Utils import formataddr
from email.Header import Header
from email.Charset import Charset

DOT = '.'



# Manage a connection to the SMTP server
class Connection:
def __init__(self):
self.__connect()

def __connect(self):
self.__conn = smtplib.SMTP()
self.__conn.connect(mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
if mm_cfg.SMTP_AUTH:
self.__conn.login(mm_cfg.SMTP_USERNAME, mm_cfg.SMTP_PASSWORD)
self.__numsessions = mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION

def sendmail(self, envsender, recips, msgtext):
try:
results = self.__conn.sendmail(envsender, recips, msgtext)
except smtplib.SMTPException:
# For safety, reconnect
self.__conn.quit()
self.__connect()
# Let exceptions percolate up
raise
# Decrement the session counter, reconnecting if necessary
self.__numsessions -= 1
# By testing exactly for equality to 0, we automatically handle the
# case for SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION <= 0 meaning never close
# the connection. We won't worry about wraparound .
if self.__numsessions == 0:
self.__conn.quit()
self.__connect()
return results

def quit(self):
self.__conn.quit()



def process(mlist, msg, msgdata):
recips = msgdata.get('recips')
if not recips:
# Nobody to deliver to!
return
# Calculate the non-VERP envelope sender.
envsender = msgdata.get('envsender')
if envsender is None:
if mlist:
envsender = mlist.GetBouncesEmail()
else:
envsender = Utils.get_site_email(extra='bounces')
# Time to split up the recipient list. If we're personalizing or VERPing
# then each chunk will have exactly one recipient. We'll then hand craft
# an envelope sender and stitch a message together in memory for each one
# separately. If we're not VERPing, then we'll chunkify based on
# SMTP_MAX_RCPTS. Note that most MTAs have a limit on the number of
# recipients they'll swallow in a single transaction.
deliveryfunc = None
if (not msgdata.has_key('personalize') or msgdata['personalize']) and (
msgdata.get('verp') or mlist.personalize):
chunks = [[recip] for recip in recips]
msgdata['personalize'] = 1
deliveryfunc = verpdeliver
elif mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_RCPTS <= 0:
chunks = [recips]
else:
chunks = chunkify(recips, mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_RCPTS)
# See if this is an unshunted message for which some were undelivered
if msgdata.has_key('undelivered'):
chunks = msgdata['undelivered']
# If we're doing bulk delivery, then we can stitch up the message now.
if deliveryfunc is None:
# Be sure never to decorate the message more than once!
if not msgdata.get('decorated'):
Decorate.process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
msgdata['decorated'] = 1
deliveryfunc = bulkdeliver
refused = {}
t0 = time.time()
# Open the initial connection
origrecips = msgdata['recips']
# `undelivered' is a copy of chunks that we pop from to do deliveries.
# This seems like a good tradeoff between robustness and resource
# utilization. If delivery really fails (i.e. qfiles/shunt type
# failures), then we'll pick up where we left off with `undelivered'.
# This means at worst, the last chunk for which delivery was attempted
# could get duplicates but not every one, and no recips should miss the
# message.
conn = Connection()
try:
msgdata['undelivered'] = chunks
while chunks:
chunk = chunks.pop()
msgdata['recips'] = chunk
try:
deliveryfunc(mlist, msg, msgdata, envsender, refused, conn)
except Exception:
# If /anything/ goes wrong, push the last chunk back on the
# undelivered list and re-raise the exception. We don't know
# how many of the last chunk might receive the message, so at
# worst, everyone in this chunk will get a duplicate. Sigh.
chunks.append(chunk)
raise
del msgdata['undelivered']
finally:
conn.quit()
msgdata['recips'] = origrecips
# Log the successful post
t1 = time.time()
d = MsgSafeDict(msg, {'time' : t1-t0,
# BAW: Urg. This seems inefficient.
'size' : len(msg.as_string()),
'#recips' : len(recips),
'#refused': len(refused),
'listname': mlist.internal_name(),
'sender' : msg.get_sender(),
})
# We have to use the copy() method because extended call syntax requires a
# concrete dictionary object; it does not allow a generic mapping. It's
# still worthwhile doing the interpolation in syslog() because it'll catch
# any catastrophic exceptions due to bogus format strings.
if mm_cfg.SMTP_LOG_EVERY_MESSAGE:
syslog.write_ex(mm_cfg.SMTP_LOG_EVERY_MESSAGE[0],
mm_cfg.SMTP_LOG_EVERY_MESSAGE[1], kws=d)

if refused:
if mm_cfg.SMTP_LOG_REFUSED:
syslog.write_ex(mm_cfg.SMTP_LOG_REFUSED[0],
mm_cfg.SMTP_LOG_REFUSED[1], kws=d)

elif msgdata.get('tolist'):
# Log the successful post, but only if it really was a post to the
# mailing list. Don't log sends to the -owner, or -admin addrs.
# -request addrs should never get here. BAW: it may be useful to log
# the other messages, but in that case, we should probably have a
# separate configuration variable to control that.
if mm_cfg.SMTP_LOG_SUCCESS:
syslog.write_ex(mm_cfg.SMTP_LOG_SUCCESS[0],
mm_cfg.SMTP_LOG_SUCCESS[1], kws=d)

# Process any failed deliveries.
tempfailures = []
permfailures = []
for recip, (code, smtpmsg) in refused.items():
# DRUMS is an internet draft, but it says:
#
# [RFC-821] incorrectly listed the error where an SMTP server
# exhausts its implementation limit on the number of RCPT commands
# ("too many recipients") as having reply code 552. The correct
# reply code for this condition is 452. Clients SHOULD treat a 552
# code in this case as a temporary, rather than permanent failure
# so the logic below works.
#
if code >= 500 and code <> 552:
# A permanent failure
permfailures.append(recip)
else:
# Deal with persistent transient failures by queuing them up for
# future delivery. TBD: this could generate lots of log entries!
tempfailures.append(recip)
if mm_cfg.SMTP_LOG_EACH_FAILURE:
d.update({'recipient': recip,
'failcode' : code,
'failmsg' : smtpmsg})
syslog.write_ex(mm_cfg.SMTP_LOG_EACH_FAILURE[0],
mm_cfg.SMTP_LOG_EACH_FAILURE[1], kws=d)
# Return the results
if tempfailures or permfailures:
raise Errors.SomeRecipientsFailed(tempfailures, permfailures)



def chunkify(recips, chunksize):
# First do a simple sort on top level domain. It probably doesn't buy us
# much to try to sort on MX record -- that's the MTA's job. We're just
# trying to avoid getting a max recips error. Split the chunks along
# these lines (as suggested originally by Chuq Von Rospach and slightly
# elaborated by BAW).
chunkmap = {'com': 1,
'net': 2,
'org': 2,
'edu': 3,
'us' : 3,
'ca' : 3,
}
buckets = {}
for r in recips:
tld = None
i = r.rfind('.')
if i >= 0:
tld = r[i+1:]
bin = chunkmap.get(tld, 0)
bucket = buckets.get(bin, [])
bucket.append(r)
buckets[bin] = bucket
# Now start filling the chunks
chunks = []
currentchunk = []
chunklen = 0
for bin in buckets.values():
for r in bin:
currentchunk.append(r)
chunklen = chunklen + 1
if chunklen >= chunksize:
chunks.append(currentchunk)
currentchunk = []
chunklen = 0
if currentchunk:
chunks.append(currentchunk)
currentchunk = []
chunklen = 0
return chunks



def verpdeliver(mlist, msg, msgdata, envsender, failures, conn):
for recip in msgdata['recips']:
# We now need to stitch together the message with its header and
# footer. If we're VERPIng, we have to calculate the envelope sender
# for each recipient. Note that the list of recipients must be of
# length 1.
#
# BAW: ezmlm includes the message number in the envelope, used when
# sending a notification to the user telling her how many messages
# they missed due to bouncing. Neat idea.
msgdata['recips'] = [recip]
# Make a copy of the message and decorate + delivery that
msgcopy = copy.deepcopy(msg)
Decorate.process(mlist, msgcopy, msgdata)
# Calculate the envelope sender, which we may be VERPing
if msgdata.get('verp'):
bmailbox, bdomain = Utils.ParseEmail(envsender)
rmailbox, rdomain = Utils.ParseEmail(recip)
if rdomain is None:
# The recipient address is not fully-qualified. We can't
# deliver it to this person, nor can we craft a valid verp
# header. I don't think there's much we can do except ignore
# this recipient.
syslog('smtp', 'Skipping VERP delivery to unqual recip: %s',
recip)
continue
d = {'bounces': bmailbox,
'mailbox': rmailbox,
'host' : DOT.join(rdomain),
}
envsender = '%s@%s' % ((mm_cfg.VERP_FORMAT % d), DOT.join(bdomain))
if mlist.personalize == 2:
# When fully personalizing, we want the To address to point to the
# recipient, not to the mailing list
del msgcopy['to']
name = None
if mlist.isMember(recip):
name = mlist.getMemberName(recip)
if name:
# Convert the name to an email-safe representation. If the
# name is a byte string, convert it first to Unicode, given
# the character set of the member's language, replacing bad
# characters for which we can do nothing about. Once we have
# the name as Unicode, we can create a Header instance for it
# so that it's properly encoded for email transport.
charset = Utils.GetCharSet(mlist.getMemberLanguage(recip))
if charset == 'us-ascii':
# Since Header already tries both us-ascii and utf-8,
# let's add something a bit more useful.
charset = 'iso-8859-1'
charset = Charset(charset)
codec = charset.input_codec or 'ascii'
if not isinstance(name, UnicodeType):
name = unicode(name, codec, 'replace')
name = Header(name, charset).encode()
msgcopy['To'] = formataddr((name, recip))
else:
msgcopy['To'] = recip
# We can flag the mail as a duplicate for each member, if they've
# already received this message, as calculated by Message-ID. See
# AvoidDuplicates.py for details.
del msgcopy['x-mailman-copy']
if msgdata.get('add-dup-header', {}).has_key(recip):
msgcopy['X-Mailman-Copy'] = 'yes'
# For the final delivery stage, we can just bulk deliver to a party of
# one. ;)
bulkdeliver(mlist, msgcopy, msgdata, envsender, failures, conn)



def bulkdeliver(mlist, msg, msgdata, envsender, failures, conn):
# Do some final cleanup of the message header. Start by blowing away
# any the Sender: and Errors-To: headers so remote MTAs won't be
# tempted to delivery bounces there instead of our envelope sender
del msg['sender']
del msg['errors-to']
msg['Sender'] = envsender
msg['Errors-To'] = envsender
# Get the plain, flattened text of the message, sans unixfrom
msgtext = msg.as_string()
refused = {}
recips = msgdata['recips']
try:
# Send the message
refused = conn.sendmail(envsender, recips, msgtext)
except smtplib.SMTPRecipientsRefused, e:
refused = e.recipients
# MTA not responding, or other socket problems, or any other kind of
# SMTPException. In that case, nothing got delivered
except (socket.error, smtplib.SMTPException, IOError), e:
# BAW: should this be configurable?
syslog('smtp', 'All recipients refused: %s', e)
# If the exception had an associated error code, use it, otherwise,
# fake it with a non-triggering exception code
errcode = getattr(e, 'smtp_code', -1)
errmsg = getattr(e, 'smtp_error', 'ignore')
for r in recips:
refused[r] = (errcode, errmsg)
failures.update(refused)
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/gamelover9001%40yahoo.com

Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp

		
---------------------------------
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From pmw at qnan.org  Sat Oct 15 07:35:55 2005
From: pmw at qnan.org (Philip M. White)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 00:35:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Howto: Mailman, Postfix, and a separate subdomain
Message-ID: <20051015053555.GD30955@qnan.org>

After struggling for several days to set up a dedicated subdomain for
Mailman, I wrote a howto:

	http://www.qnan.org/~pmw/howtos/mailman-virtuals.html

Hopefully it will help someone.  If you see ways of improving the howto
(or my setup), please let me know.
-- 
Philip
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From kig at telekom.ru  Sat Oct 15 09:38:07 2005
From: kig at telekom.ru (=?Windows-1251?B?yu7i4Ovl7eruIMji4O0=?=)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 11:38:07 +0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Detailed logging of what Mailman is doing now
Message-ID: <353511317.20051015113807@telekom.ru>

Hi, im user/admin of Cpanel. Neither their forums nor my own magic
casting hasnt helped to bring my lists in order. So the question is
how to switch _very_ detailed logging on what Mailman is doing and
what are the states of current email sendings?
Specially, it would be nice to see info about every message.

Ivanko



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Oct 15 12:57:39 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 12:57:39 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Detailed logging of what Mailman is doing now
In-Reply-To: <353511317.20051015113807@telekom.ru>
References: <353511317.20051015113807@telekom.ru>
Message-ID: <p06200710bf7690bc54ba@[10.0.1.210]>

At 11:38 AM +0400 2005-10-15, =?Windows-1251?B?yu7i4Ovl7eruIMji4O0=?= wrote:

>  Hi, im user/admin of Cpanel. Neither their forums nor my own magic
>  casting hasnt helped to bring my lists in order. So the question is
>  how to switch _very_ detailed logging on what Mailman is doing and
>  what are the states of current email sendings?

	There is no more detailed logging than what you are already getting.

	Unfortunately, it's not like you can define a "-debug" option to 
the program, and have it generate copious amounts of output, as is 
typical with some other programs.

	If you want more detailed logging than you're already getting, 
you need to add it yourself.  Make sure you learn enough about 
programming in Python that you don't break anything while you add 
your debugging info.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From jim at jimnull.com  Sat Oct 15 22:21:52 2005
From: jim at jimnull.com (Jim Null)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 15:21:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives Export
Message-ID: <000301c5d1c6$149b2990$0300a8c0@JNullWinbook>

Is there anyway to export the archives keeping the threads intact without
using gzip?
 
Thanx...
 


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 15 22:34:48 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 13:34:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives Export
In-Reply-To: <000301c5d1c6$149b2990$0300a8c0@JNullWinbook>
Message-ID: <PC17402005101513344801560214f7ac@msapiro>

Jim Null wrote:

>Is there anyway to export the archives keeping the threads intact without
>using gzip?


By default, the archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file
contains the entire archive of posts to listname in Unix mbox format.
It has the original headers including In-Reply-To: and References:
that are used for threading.

This file can be used to rebuild the pipermail archive on the same or
another Mailman system and may be more useful that the pipermail
archive to a non-mailman system.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct 16 05:27:17 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 20:27:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can we use an external mail server with mailman?
In-Reply-To: <20051014225000.18635.qmail@web32203.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020051015202717062578927f02@msapiro>

game lover wrote:

>This is a topic I am interested in.  But can someone summarize these codes to make them simple so most people can following them easily?

I'm not sure what your issue is. The post you quote seems fairly self
explanatory to me, especially the part written by John Dennis, but
here's some information for you.

The python module ASMTPdirect.py which you quote has all it's
indentation removed so it doesn't have a chance of working. The
original can be found in the archive of this list at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-September/046748.html,
but be aware that that code is based on Mailman 2.1.1. See below for
the patch if you need it.

There are actually two mail servers involved in operating Mailman. One
is the server that receives mail addressed to list at example.com,
list-bounces at example.com, etc. Call this the incoming MTA. The other
is the server that receives outgoing mail from Mailman such as posts
to be delivered to list members and administrative messages to be
delivered to list owners and moderators. Call this the outgoing MTA.

It is easy to configure the outgoing MTA to be anywhere. The mm_cfg.py
settings SMTPHOST and SMTPPORT specify the host name and port used to
access the outgoing MTA. Using an external outgoing MTA may be as
simple as specifying SMTPHOST = 'host_name' in mm_cfg.py.

The ASMTPdirect.py module comes into play if the external outgoing MTA
requires user/password authorization to accept mail for an arbitrary
destination. If this is required, you create
Mailman/Handlers/ASMTPDirect.py by patching
Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py with the patch below and you put the
following in mm_cfg.py

SMTP_AUTH = Yes
SMTP_USERNAME = 'username'
SMTP_PASSWORD = 'password'
DELIVERY_MODULE = 'ASMTPDirect'

Use of an external incoming MTA is more complex and requires the use of
something like fetchmail, perhaps in combination with other software,
on the Mailman box to retrieve the incoming mail from the external
system and pipe it properly to the mail wrapper. There is a way to use
a mail directory instead of the mail wrapper to deliver incoming mail
to Mailman which may simplify this process. See the settings and
comments for USE_MAILDIR in Defaults.py for information on this option.

Here is the patch to convert Mailman 2.1.6 SMTPDirect.py to
ASMTPDirect.py (watch out for wrapped lines). The patch for other
2.1.x versions is the same except for the line numbers of the second
hunk.
------------------------------------------------------------------
--- SMTPDirect.py	2005-10-14 16:31:34.625000000 -0700
+++ ASMTPDirect.py	2005-10-15 19:53:39.234375000 -0700
@@ -14,7 +14,7 @@
 # along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
 # Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA
02111-1307, USA.
 
-"""Local SMTP direct drop-off.
+"""Local SMTP direct drop-off w/Authtenication.
 
 This module delivers messages via SMTP to a locally specified daemon. 
This
 should be compatible with any modern SMTP server.  It is expected that
the MTA
@@ -61,6 +61,8 @@
     def __connect(self):
         self.__conn = smtplib.SMTP()
         self.__conn.connect(mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
+        if mm_cfg.SMTP_AUTH:
+            self.__conn.login(mm_cfg.SMTP_USERNAME,
mm_cfg.SMTP_PASSWORD)
         self.__numsessions = mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION
 
     def sendmail(self, envsender, recips, msgtext):
-------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From owner at writestop.com  Mon Oct 17 16:43:52 2005
From: owner at writestop.com (Diana Kirk)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 07:43:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Structure of Mailman archives
Message-ID: <200510170743.52278.owner@writestop.com>

I've gone over the FAQ on moving archives. Since I don't have actual 
access to /archives on my system (shared hosting), I'm going to have 
to ask Support to do what's necessary. I can make sure everything is 
in mbox format. However, I have archives going back to 1996 from 
several different mailing list programs (listserv, majordomo, and 
mailman).

Specifically, my question is:  How is 
/archives/private/[list].mbox/[list].mbox actually structured? The 
FAQ makes it sound like it is one giant mbox file. Also, there are two 
[list].mbox in the path. The first is a subdirectory of 
/archives/private. The second is the actual mbox file. Are they both 
really the exact same name?

I have new volume numbers for each year, and the archives are set to 
show all posts per month. Does /archives/private reflect that via 
subdirectories? For example, 
/archives/private/[list]/2005-October/[message_number].html would be 
the path for a current message. Is that how I should have the past 
posts uploaded? That is, 
/archives/private/[list]/year-month/[list].mbox where I've zipped the 
file so that the year-month is a subdirectory containing an mbox with 
the messages for that time period. 

Or should I give Support one big mbox with all the messages, the 
instructions on what to do from the FAQ, and assume Mailman will 
figure it out?

Am I out of my mind thinking this can be done? I'll take a "no 
comment" as a "yes" :). I would really like to do this if it's 
possible.

Thanks,
Diana
-- 
Diana Kirk
WordStar Users Group Community:
http://wordstar2.com/WordStar_Users
Mailing Lists: http://wordstar2.com/mailman/listinfo
Registered Linux User #327485



From rein.laaneser at gmail.com  Mon Oct 17 17:17:53 2005
From: rein.laaneser at gmail.com (Rein Laaneser)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 18:17:53 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] change the webserver name
Message-ID: <a7b37a040510170817w275fa578x@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

I need to change the webserver address as hostname is changed
I looked the manual and tried with commands
withlist and fix_url.py
but somehow did not succeed with it.

Just I need to change the hostname for web interface. Mailman itself is
working well, just not usable with website. That means i can see
http://newhostname.com/mailman/admin page but the lists are disappared from
there. They where ok in http://oldhostname.com

Sincerely

-ReinL:


From szkola at tanis.cso.niu.edu  Mon Oct 17 18:15:20 2005
From: szkola at tanis.cso.niu.edu (Dan Szkola)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:15:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange errors
Message-ID: <1129565720.9259.15.camel@linux.site>

Hello all,

We are converting our lists from a different list server to mailman.

I am running a Solaris 10 box, with mailman-2.1.6rc4 and sendmail
version 8.13.3. Python version is 2.4.1.

I run sendmail in the following ways:


A normal sendmail daemon listening on port 25:

/usr/lib/sendmail -bd -q15m

A persistent queue runner:

/usr/lib/sendmail -qp1m -OPidFile=/var/run/sendmail-qrun.pid

A sendmail with submit.cf config:

/usr/lib/sendmail -Ac -q5m

A sendmail for smtp-auth listening on port 587:

/usr/lib/sendmail -bd -C/etc/mail/sendmail-auth.cf -q15m


Anyway, the problem we are having is this:

  After running for several days with no errors, we suddenly start
  seeing this error:

>>> Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON at xxxxxxx.xxx.xxx.xxx>
10/17/2005 9:18:52 AM >>>
The original message was received at Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:18:21 -0500
(CDT)
from xxxxxxxx.xxx.xxx.xxx [131.156.xxx.xxx]

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post testlist"
    (reason: 1)
    (expanded from: <testlist at xxxxx.xxx.xxx>)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/post", line 35, in ?
    from Mailman.Queue.sbcache import get_switchboard
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/sbcache.py", line 19, in ?
    from Mailman.Queue.Switchboard import Switchboard
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 47, in
?
    from Mailman.Logging.Syslog import syslog
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Syslog.py", line 22, in ?
    from Mailman.Logging.StampedLogger import StampedLogger
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py", line 20,
in ?
    from Mailman.Logging.Logger import Logger
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 25, in ?
    from Mailman.Logging.Utils import _logexc
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.py", line 18, in ?
    import traceback
ImportError: No module named traceback
554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1

Has anyone seen this? Should I file a bug on this or send it along
to the developers list?

Restarting sendmail seems to get rid of the problem for a day or two.
All sendmail configs have the mailman alias file included and we run
newaliases to update it on every new list creation.

--
Dan Szkola




From dennis.putnam at aimaudit.com  Mon Oct 17 20:14:50 2005
From: dennis.putnam at aimaudit.com (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:14:50 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating Lists to a new server
Message-ID: <7C766002-A02E-4A90-B2AC-2B0355210F29@aimaudit.com>

Can someone point me to some documentation for migrating mailman  
lists and archives to a new server? Thanks.

Dennis Putnam
Sr. IT Systems Administrator
AIM Systems, Inc.
11675 Rainwater Dr., Suite 200
Alpharetta, GA  30004
Phone: 678-240-4112
Main Phone: 678-297-0700
FAX: 678-297-2666 or 770-576-1000
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments is  
strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any  
use, dissemination, distribution, or duplication of any part of this  
e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you are not the intended  
recipient, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all  
copies, including the attachments.





From cpz at tuunq.com  Mon Oct 17 20:34:30 2005
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 11:34:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating Lists to a new server
In-Reply-To: <7C766002-A02E-4A90-B2AC-2B0355210F29@aimaudit.com> from Dennis
	Putnam at "Oct 17, 2005 02:14:50 pm"
Message-ID: <20051017183430.173777AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Dennis Putnam wrote:
> Can someone point me to some documentation for migrating mailman  
> lists and archives to a new server? Thanks.

> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
While the search engine appears to be out of service, the index isn't.

> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

Start with
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.004.htp

z!


From ml at ancalagon.inka.de  Mon Oct 17 21:07:05 2005
From: ml at ancalagon.inka.de (Thomas Hochstein)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:07:05 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Structure of Mailman archives
References: <200510170743.52278.owner@writestop.com>
Message-ID: <alm.0510172107.9579@windlord.akallabeth.de>

Diana Kirk schrieb:

> Specifically, my question is:  How is 
> /archives/private/[list].mbox/[list].mbox actually structured? The 
> FAQ makes it sound like it is one giant mbox file.

Yes.

> Also, there are two 
> [list].mbox in the path. The first is a subdirectory of 
> /archives/private. The second is the actual mbox file. Are they both 
> really the exact same name?

Yes.

-thh


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 18 03:46:25 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 18:46:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Structure of Mailman archives
In-Reply-To: <200510170743.52278.owner@writestop.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510171846250046f11d6e67@msapiro>

Diana Kirk wrote:

>I've gone over the FAQ on moving archives. Since I don't have actual 
>access to /archives on my system (shared hosting), I'm going to have 
>to ask Support to do what's necessary. I can make sure everything is 
>in mbox format. However, I have archives going back to 1996 from 
>several different mailing list programs (listserv, majordomo, and 
>mailman).
>
>Specifically, my question is:  How is 
>/archives/private/[list].mbox/[list].mbox actually structured? The 
>FAQ makes it sound like it is one giant mbox file.


Answered in another reply, but Yes.


>Also, there are two 
>[list].mbox in the path. The first is a subdirectory of 
>/archives/private. The second is the actual mbox file. Are they both 
>really the exact same name?


Also answered, Yes.


>I have new volume numbers for each year, and the archives are set to 
>show all posts per month. Does /archives/private reflect that via 
>subdirectories? For example, 
>/archives/private/[list]/2005-October/[message_number].html would be 
>the path for a current message. Is that how I should have the past 
>posts uploaded? That is, 
>/archives/private/[list]/year-month/[list].mbox where I've zipped the 
>file so that the year-month is a subdirectory containing an mbox with 
>the messages for that time period. 


This is how the archives are structured, but all this structure is in
addition to the cumulative mailbox file
/archives/private/[list].mbox/[list].mbox. All you need to (re)build
an entire Pipermail arvhive is the one cumulative mbox file.


>Or should I give Support one big mbox with all the messages, the 
>instructions on what to do from the FAQ, and assume Mailman will 
>figure it out?


If you're trying to create one huge archive containing all the various
listserv, majordomo and mailman archives, the thing to do is to make
the one huge cumulative mbox file. As long as this has proper "^From "
lines with good dates and good Date: headers, "bin/arch --wipe" will
build the Pipermail archive structure from it. The archives will also
be thereaded according to Message-Id:, In-Reply-To: and References:
headers in the mbox file.


>Am I out of my mind thinking this can be done? I'll take a "no 
>comment" as a "yes" :). I would really like to do this if it's 
>possible.


The only problem is insuring the integrity of the mbox file. There is a
bin/cleanarch script that attempts to insure that messages in the mbox
file do not themselves contain "^From " lines. This is not perfect,
but it can help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 18 05:02:55 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 20:02:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] change the webserver name
In-Reply-To: <a7b37a040510170817w275fa578x@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510172002550468458d6e6b@msapiro>

Rein Laaneser wrote:
>
>I need to change the webserver address as hostname is changed
>I looked the manual and tried with commands
>withlist and fix_url.py
>but somehow did not succeed with it.
>
>Just I need to change the hostname for web interface. Mailman itself is
>working well, just not usable with website. That means i can see
>http://newhostname.com/mailman/admin page but the lists are disappared from
>there. They where ok in http://oldhostname.com


Withlist and fix_url are the tools, but you also need to make mm_cfg.py
changes. See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 18 05:44:42 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 20:44:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange errors
In-Reply-To: <1129565720.9259.15.camel@linux.site>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510172044420546458d6eac@msapiro>

Dan Szkola wrote:
>
>I am running a Solaris 10 box, with mailman-2.1.6rc4 and sendmail
>version 8.13.3. Python version is 2.4.1.
>
>I run sendmail in the following ways:
>
>
>A normal sendmail daemon listening on port 25:
>
>/usr/lib/sendmail -bd -q15m
>
>A persistent queue runner:
>
>/usr/lib/sendmail -qp1m -OPidFile=/var/run/sendmail-qrun.pid
>
>A sendmail with submit.cf config:
>
>/usr/lib/sendmail -Ac -q5m
>
>A sendmail for smtp-auth listening on port 587:
>
>/usr/lib/sendmail -bd -C/etc/mail/sendmail-auth.cf -q15m
>
>
>Anyway, the problem we are having is this:
>
>  After running for several days with no errors, we suddenly start
>  seeing this error:
>
>>>> Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON at xxxxxxx.xxx.xxx.xxx>
>10/17/2005 9:18:52 AM >>>
>The original message was received at Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:18:21 -0500
>(CDT)
>from xxxxxxxx.xxx.xxx.xxx [131.156.xxx.xxx]
>
>   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
>"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post testlist"
>    (reason: 1)
>    (expanded from: <testlist at xxxxx.xxx.xxx>)
>
>   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/post", line 35, in ?
>    from Mailman.Queue.sbcache import get_switchboard
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/sbcache.py", line 19, in ?
>    from Mailman.Queue.Switchboard import Switchboard
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 47, in
>?
>    from Mailman.Logging.Syslog import syslog
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Syslog.py", line 22, in ?
>    from Mailman.Logging.StampedLogger import StampedLogger
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py", line 20,
>in ?
>    from Mailman.Logging.Logger import Logger
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 25, in ?
>    from Mailman.Logging.Utils import _logexc
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.py", line 18, in ?
>    import traceback
>ImportError: No module named traceback
>554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1
>
>Has anyone seen this? Should I file a bug on this or send it along
>to the developers list?
>
>Restarting sendmail seems to get rid of the problem for a day or two.
>All sendmail configs have the mailman alias file included and we run
>newaliases to update it on every new list creation.


This is curious indeed for at least two reasons.

It is not a sendmail alias problem, nor does it seem on the face to be
a sendmail problem at all. The post is received by sendmail and piped
to the wrapper with the appropriate arguments. The wrapper invokes the
post script as it should.

The post script then does some imports one of which is
    from Mailman.Queue.sbcache import get_switchboard

sbcache does
    from Mailman.Queue.Switchboard import Switchboard

and so on until Mailman.Logging.Utils does
    import traceback

which results in ImportError: No module named traceback

Now this is really strange because traceback is a Python library module
and this chain of imports leading to 'import traceback' occurs with
every post, so why does it fail now and why does restarting sendmail
fix it?

What happens if you restart Mailman (bin/mailmanctl restart) without
restarting sendmail? Does that fix it? Or do all the qrunners die with
the same ImportError?

I have no reason other than superstition for the following suggestion,
but try

SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION = 1

in mm_cfg.py and see if that helps. This will cause Mailman to close
the SMTP connection to sendmail after each transaction. This might
avoid the problem, but since I have no idea what the problem is, I
have no idea if this will help.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From bob at morsemedia.net  Tue Oct 18 05:49:35 2005
From: bob at morsemedia.net (Robert Morse)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 20:49:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Munged addresses
Message-ID: <BF79BEDF.613FF%bob@morsemedia.net>

I have a list running on our server that when you ask for the entire list
the firse 25 or so listed are munged. Here's an example

    
#PreReg442-1212nstreufert at earthlink.netfrasherhsustudent668-1768starif
anl

You can see that there is an actual email address in there, which when
searched on returns a valid address. I would like to get rid of these munged
addresses, but when I check the box to unsubscribe them, I get a message
back that says the subscriber is not listed. Some are much longer, some ae
shorter. Any way I can get rid of these things?
-- 
Bob Morse
Morse Media
http://www.morsemedia.net
707-444-9566



From owner at writestop.com  Tue Oct 18 06:21:39 2005
From: owner at writestop.com (Diana Kirk)
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:21:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Structure of Mailman archives
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510171846250046f11d6e67@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200510171846250046f11d6e67@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200510172121.39691.owner@writestop.com>

Thanks for the replies. I really appreciate them all.

On Monday 17 October 2005 06:46 pm, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> The only problem is insuring the integrity of the mbox file. There
> is a bin/cleanarch script that attempts to insure that messages in
> the mbox file do not themselves contain "^From " lines. This is not
> perfect, but it can help.

My problem is that I will have to actually go through and check quite 
a bit of this no matter how I go about it. At least now I know what 
Mailman will look for in order to build the archives. So I can check 
for those things as I assemble and clean the mbox up.

My other alternative was to create a special web site and upload all 
the digests. However, it wouldn't be nearly as pretty when the dust 
settled, while being as much or possibly more work to do. 

I'm not keen on the fact that the Mailman archives don't have some 
sort of search mechanism included, but I saw the suggestion in 
another post or possibly in the FAQ about getting Google to do it. 
That just might work.

Thanks again for your help,
Diana
-- 
Registered Linux User #327485
WordStar Users Group Community:
http://wordstar2.com/WordStar_Users
WordStar & Linux: http://wordstar2.com
Mailing Lists: http://wordstar2.com/mailman/listinfo



From kig at telekom.ru  Tue Oct 18 08:45:50 2005
From: kig at telekom.ru (=?Windows-1251?B?yu7i4Ovl7eruIMji4O0=?=)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 10:45:50 +0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List blocking due to bounces
Message-ID: <7410146904.20051018104550@telekom.ru>

Is there a possibility that a whole lists get blocked for a certain
number of bounces recievied? Or any other way?

Generally, what are the ways of automatic list blocking?
We're on cpanel and yet cant get it working properly.



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Oct 18 09:52:31 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:52:31 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List blocking due to bounces
In-Reply-To: <7410146904.20051018104550@telekom.ru>
References: <7410146904.20051018104550@telekom.ru>
Message-ID: <p06200704bf7a58bdb359@[10.0.1.210]>

At 10:45 AM +0400 2005-10-18, =?Windows-1251?B?yu7i4Ovl7eruIMji4O0=?= wrote:

>  Is there a possibility that a whole lists get blocked for a certain
>  number of bounces recievied? Or any other way?

	Number of bounces?  I don't think so, at least not with the 
standard Mailman code.

>  Generally, what are the ways of automatic list blocking?

	The versions of Mailman prior to 2.1.6 could get into some 
problems where messages that are illegally formatted could wind up 
blocking an entire list.  Mailman would try to process the messages, 
be unable to do so, and then fail to proceed to the next message for 
that list.

	Version 2.1.6 significantly increased the probability that such 
problems would not block an entire list, but of course there's always 
a chance that something really strange could happen.

>  We're on cpanel and yet cant get it working properly.

	CPanel may have added some code to Mailman to block lists that 
are causing excessive bounces, and if that feature is available, your 
supplier may have enabled it for your list.

	Unfortunately, the Mailman FAQ Wizard is down right now, 
otherwise I would point you at the FAQ entry which addresses the 
issue of the changes that CPanel has made to the code, etc.... 
However, you can see the Google cache version of the page at 
<http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:y4M8jCXL-L8J:www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py%3Freq%3Dshow%26file%3Dfaq06.011.htp+&hl=en>, 
or <http://tinyurl.com/at7h2>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From dennis.putnam at aimaudit.com  Tue Oct 18 13:42:47 2005
From: dennis.putnam at aimaudit.com (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 07:42:47 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating Lists to a new server
In-Reply-To: <20051017183430.173777AE@mail.tuunq.com>
References: <20051017183430.173777AE@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <43B3ADA0-529D-4EE5-AE86-F7E997F8E90B@aimaudit.com>

That was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks.

On Oct 17, 2005, at 2:34 PM, Carl Zwanzig wrote:

> In a flurry of recycled electrons, Dennis Putnam wrote:
>
>> Can someone point me to some documentation for migrating mailman
>> lists and archives to a new server? Thanks.
>>
>
>
>> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>>
> While the search engine appears to be out of service, the index isn't.
>
>
>> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users% 
>> 40python.org/
>>
>
> Start with
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.004.htp
>
> z!
>
>

Dennis Putnam
Sr. IT Systems Administrator
AIM Systems, Inc.
11675 Rainwater Dr., Suite 200
Alpharetta, GA  30004
Phone: 678-240-4112
Main Phone: 678-297-0700
FAX: 678-297-2666 or 770-576-1000
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments is  
strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any  
use, dissemination, distribution, or duplication of any part of this  
e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you are not the intended  
recipient, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all  
copies, including the attachments.





From szkola at tanis.cso.niu.edu  Tue Oct 18 15:37:49 2005
From: szkola at tanis.cso.niu.edu (Dan Szkola)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:37:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange errors
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510172044420546458d6eac@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200510172044420546458d6eac@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4354FAAD.3030704@tanis.cso.niu.edu>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Dan Szkola wrote:
>  
>
>>I am running a Solaris 10 box, with mailman-2.1.6rc4 and sendmail
>>version 8.13.3. Python version is 2.4.1.
>>
>>I run sendmail in the following ways:
>>
>>
>>A normal sendmail daemon listening on port 25:
>>
>>/usr/lib/sendmail -bd -q15m
>>
>>A persistent queue runner:
>>
>>/usr/lib/sendmail -qp1m -OPidFile=/var/run/sendmail-qrun.pid
>>
>>A sendmail with submit.cf config:
>>
>>/usr/lib/sendmail -Ac -q5m
>>
>>A sendmail for smtp-auth listening on port 587:
>>
>>/usr/lib/sendmail -bd -C/etc/mail/sendmail-auth.cf -q15m
>>
>>
>>Anyway, the problem we are having is this:
>>
>> After running for several days with no errors, we suddenly start
>> seeing this error:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>>>Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON at xxxxxxx.xxx.xxx.xxx>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>10/17/2005 9:18:52 AM >>>
>>The original message was received at Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:18:21 -0500
>>(CDT)
>>    
>>
>>from xxxxxxxx.xxx.xxx.xxx [131.156.xxx.xxx]
>  
>
>>  ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
>>"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post testlist"
>>   (reason: 1)
>>   (expanded from: <testlist at xxxxx.xxx.xxx>)
>>
>>  ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>>Traceback (most recent call last):
>> File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/post", line 35, in ?
>>   from Mailman.Queue.sbcache import get_switchboard
>> File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/sbcache.py", line 19, in ?
>>   from Mailman.Queue.Switchboard import Switchboard
>> File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 47, in
>>?
>>   from Mailman.Logging.Syslog import syslog
>> File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Syslog.py", line 22, in ?
>>   from Mailman.Logging.StampedLogger import StampedLogger
>> File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py", line 20,
>>in ?
>>   from Mailman.Logging.Logger import Logger
>> File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 25, in ?
>>   from Mailman.Logging.Utils import _logexc
>> File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.py", line 18, in ?
>>   import traceback
>>ImportError: No module named traceback
>>554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1
>>
>>Has anyone seen this? Should I file a bug on this or send it along
>>to the developers list?
>>
>>Restarting sendmail seems to get rid of the problem for a day or two.
>>All sendmail configs have the mailman alias file included and we run
>>newaliases to update it on every new list creation.
>>    
>>
>
>
>This is curious indeed for at least two reasons.
>
>It is not a sendmail alias problem, nor does it seem on the face to be
>a sendmail problem at all. The post is received by sendmail and piped
>to the wrapper with the appropriate arguments. The wrapper invokes the
>post script as it should.
>
>The post script then does some imports one of which is
>    from Mailman.Queue.sbcache import get_switchboard
>
>sbcache does
>    from Mailman.Queue.Switchboard import Switchboard
>
>and so on until Mailman.Logging.Utils does
>    import traceback
>
>which results in ImportError: No module named traceback
>
>Now this is really strange because traceback is a Python library module
>and this chain of imports leading to 'import traceback' occurs with
>every post, so why does it fail now and why does restarting sendmail
>fix it?
>  
>
I built Python from source on a Solaris 10 box. Could it be a problem 
with the
way it was built? I'm doubting it, but I don't use python all that often.

>What happens if you restart Mailman (bin/mailmanctl restart) without
>restarting sendmail? Does that fix it? Or do all the qrunners die with
>the same ImportError?
>  
>
I was just notified by our helpdesk that it is failing again. I will 
restart only mailman
and see if that fixes the issue.

>I have no reason other than superstition for the following suggestion,
>but try
>
>SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION = 1
>
>in mm_cfg.py and see if that helps. This will cause Mailman to close
>the SMTP connection to sendmail after each transaction. This might
>avoid the problem, but since I have no idea what the problem is, I
>have no idea if this will help.
>  
>
I'll try that after a while as well.

Is there somewhere I can enable more debugging to help get to the bottom of
this issue? I'm finding next to nothing in the logs that is helpful.

--
Dan Szkola
Sr Unix Systems Programmer
Northern Illinois University



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Oct 18 15:54:41 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:54:41 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange errors
In-Reply-To: <4354FAAD.3030704@tanis.cso.niu.edu>
References: <PC1740200510172044420546458d6eac@msapiro>
	<4354FAAD.3030704@tanis.cso.niu.edu>
Message-ID: <p0620070bbf7aaeb0d878@[10.0.1.210]>

At 8:37 AM -0500 2005-10-18, Dan Szkola wrote:

>  Is there somewhere I can enable more debugging to help get to the bottom of
>  this issue? I'm finding next to nothing in the logs that is helpful.

	There is no additional debugging that can be enabled.  Assuming 
you're looking in the right places, you're already seeing everything 
that is available.

	You can always put in additional code to create additional 
debugging that you may find useful, but that's about it.  If you 
decide to go this route, you will need to be careful about 
indentation and other aspects of the Python programming language, 
otherwise you're likely to cause more damage than you're trying to 
cure.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From szkola at tanis.cso.niu.edu  Tue Oct 18 16:05:27 2005
From: szkola at tanis.cso.niu.edu (Dan Szkola)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:05:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange errors
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510172044420546458d6eac@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200510172044420546458d6eac@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43550127.2060708@tanis.cso.niu.edu>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Dan Szkola wrote:
>  
>
>>I am running a Solaris 10 box, with mailman-2.1.6rc4 and sendmail
>>version 8.13.3. Python version is 2.4.1.
>>
>>I run sendmail in the following ways:
>>
>>
>>A normal sendmail daemon listening on port 25:
>>
>>/usr/lib/sendmail -bd -q15m
>>
>>A persistent queue runner:
>>
>>/usr/lib/sendmail -qp1m -OPidFile=/var/run/sendmail-qrun.pid
>>
>>A sendmail with submit.cf config:
>>
>>/usr/lib/sendmail -Ac -q5m
>>
>>A sendmail for smtp-auth listening on port 587:
>>
>>/usr/lib/sendmail -bd -C/etc/mail/sendmail-auth.cf -q15m
>>
>>
>>Anyway, the problem we are having is this:
>>
>> After running for several days with no errors, we suddenly start
>> seeing this error:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>>>Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON at xxxxxxx.xxx.xxx.xxx>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>10/17/2005 9:18:52 AM >>>
>>The original message was received at Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:18:21 -0500
>>(CDT)
>>    
>>
>>from xxxxxxxx.xxx.xxx.xxx [131.156.xxx.xxx]
>  
>
>>  ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
>>"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post testlist"
>>   (reason: 1)
>>   (expanded from: <testlist at xxxxx.xxx.xxx>)
>>
>>  ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>>Traceback (most recent call last):
>> File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/post", line 35, in ?
>>   from Mailman.Queue.sbcache import get_switchboard
>> File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/sbcache.py", line 19, in ?
>>   from Mailman.Queue.Switchboard import Switchboard
>> File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 47, in
>>?
>>   from Mailman.Logging.Syslog import syslog
>> File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Syslog.py", line 22, in ?
>>   from Mailman.Logging.StampedLogger import StampedLogger
>> File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py", line 20,
>>in ?
>>   from Mailman.Logging.Logger import Logger
>> File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 25, in ?
>>   from Mailman.Logging.Utils import _logexc
>> File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.py", line 18, in ?
>>   import traceback
>>ImportError: No module named traceback
>>554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1
>>
>>Has anyone seen this? Should I file a bug on this or send it along
>>to the developers list?
>>
>>Restarting sendmail seems to get rid of the problem for a day or two.
>>All sendmail configs have the mailman alias file included and we run
>>newaliases to update it on every new list creation.
>>    
>>
>
>
>This is curious indeed for at least two reasons.
>
>It is not a sendmail alias problem, nor does it seem on the face to be
>a sendmail problem at all. The post is received by sendmail and piped
>to the wrapper with the appropriate arguments. The wrapper invokes the
>post script as it should.
>
>The post script then does some imports one of which is
>    from Mailman.Queue.sbcache import get_switchboard
>
>sbcache does
>    from Mailman.Queue.Switchboard import Switchboard
>
>and so on until Mailman.Logging.Utils does
>    import traceback
>
>which results in ImportError: No module named traceback
>
>Now this is really strange because traceback is a Python library module
>and this chain of imports leading to 'import traceback' occurs with
>every post, so why does it fail now and why does restarting sendmail
>fix it?
>
>What happens if you restart Mailman (bin/mailmanctl restart) without
>restarting sendmail? Does that fix it? Or do all the qrunners die with
>the same ImportError?
>  
>
I restarted only the mailman processes using bin/mailmanctl restart and 
post still
generate the error above. I will put the line below into the mm_cfg.py 
file and
restart sendmail and watch what happens.

>I have no reason other than superstition for the following suggestion,
>but try
>
>SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION = 1
>
>in mm_cfg.py and see if that helps. This will cause Mailman to close
>the SMTP connection to sendmail after each transaction. This might
>avoid the problem, but since I have no idea what the problem is, I
>have no idea if this will help.
>
>  
>

--
Dan Szkola
Sr Unix Systems Programmer
Northern Illinois University



From mcs at mchsi.com  Tue Oct 18 16:50:05 2005
From: mcs at mchsi.com (Cathy Slayman)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:50:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List blocking due to bounces
References: <7410146904.20051018104550@telekom.ru>
Message-ID: <00f901c5d3f3$39e21a40$6401a8c0@DD36XC21>

I am very program illiterate, but have a comment here.  We recently started 
a mailing list using Mailman.  Our initial small list test of this program 
was great.  However, the actual list we now have, has nearly 600 members. 
We had horrid bounce problems and contacted our hosting provider as we could 
not make sense of these problems from our cPanel.  Our hosting was on a 
shared server and we found out that there is a limit to the number of posts 
any given account could send per hour - 350 on this server.  So, with just 
one or two posts, we exceeded the limit, got horrendous bounces and 
automatic suspended accounts.

We are now on our own dedicated server and all seems to be working well 
other than an across the board very long time interval -average 45 to 55 
minutes- for mail being sent to as list mail to members after it is sent. 
Private replies - Reply All - on replies to list mail are sent immediately 
with the post to the list also delayed.  The archives receive posts quickly.

So, check to see if you are exceeding a set limit as to the number of emails 
your account can send per hour.

Cathy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "????????? ????" <kig at telekom.ru>
To: <Mailman-Users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 1:45 AM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List blocking due to bounces


Is there a possibility that a whole lists get blocked for a certain
number of bounces recievied? Or any other way?

Generally, what are the ways of automatic list blocking?
We're on cpanel and yet cant get it working properly. 



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.2/137 - Release Date: 10/16/2005



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 18 17:12:43 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:12:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Munged addresses
In-Reply-To: <BF79BEDF.613FF%bob@morsemedia.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510180812430187b8be8de6@msapiro>

Robert Morse wrote:

>I have a list running on our server that when you ask for the entire list
>the firse 25 or so listed are munged. Here's an example
>
>    
>#PreReg442-1212nstreufert at earthlink.netfrasher
hsustudent668-1768starif
>anl


Is this on the http://www.example.com/mailman/roster/listname page or
somewhere else? What do you see on
http://www.example.com/mailman/admin/listname/members? What do you get
in reply to an e-mail 'who' command?

Is this 'stock' Mailman, or does this list use a custom MemberAdaptor?

Are you using a modified roster.html template?


>You can see that there is an actual email address in there, which when
>searched on returns a valid address. I would like to get rid of these munged
>addresses, but when I check the box to unsubscribe them, I get a message
>back that says the subscriber is not listed. Some are much longer, some ae
>shorter. Any way I can get rid of these things?


Based the fact that part of what's there looks like tel #'s,
student/staff classification, ..., I'm guessing this list uses a
custom LDAP, MySQL, etc. MemberAdaptor and something in this
MemberAdaptor's getRegularMemberKeys(() and/or getDigestMemberKeys()
methods is returning the garbled data.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From bob at morsemedia.net  Tue Oct 18 17:28:37 2005
From: bob at morsemedia.net (Robert Morse)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:28:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Munged addresses
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510180812430187b8be8de6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BF7A62B5.61581%bob@morsemedia.net>

On 10/18/05 8:12 AM, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Robert Morse wrote:
> 
>> I have a list running on our server that when you ask for the entire list
>> the firse 25 or so listed are munged. Here's an example
>> 
>>    
>> #PreReg442-1212nstreufert at earthlink.netfrasher
> hsustudent668-1768starif
>> anl
> 
> 
> Is this on the http://www.example.com/mailman/roster/listname page or
> somewhere else? 
I get a list of munged addresses which are not on the hidden.


>What do you see on
> http://www.example.com/mailman/admin/listname/members?
I get the list of munged addresses.

>What do you get
> in reply to an e-mail 'who' command?

Not sure how to do that.
> 
> Is this 'stock' Mailman, or does this list use a custom MemberAdaptor?

Stock as far as I know. Never heard of MemberAdaptor. It's a cpanel instal
of Mailman.
> 
> Are you using a modified roster.html template?

No.
> 
> 
>> You can see that there is an actual email address in there, which when
>> searched on returns a valid address. I would like to get rid of these munged
>> addresses, but when I check the box to unsubscribe them, I get a message
>> back that says the subscriber is not listed. Some are much longer, some ae
>> shorter. Any way I can get rid of these things?
> 
> 
> Based the fact that part of what's there looks like tel #'s,
> student/staff classification, ..., I'm guessing this list uses a
> custom LDAP, MySQL, etc. MemberAdaptor and something in this
> MemberAdaptor's getRegularMemberKeys(() and/or getDigestMemberKeys()
> methods is returning the garbled data.



-- 
Bob Morse
Morse Media
http://www.morsemedia.net
707-444-9566



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 18 17:53:11 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:53:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Munged addresses
In-Reply-To: <BF7A62B5.61581%bob@morsemedia.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510180853110062ba072e69@msapiro>

Robert Morse wrote:

>On 10/18/05 8:12 AM, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
>> Robert Morse wrote:
>> 
>> Is this 'stock' Mailman, or does this list use a custom MemberAdaptor?
>
>Stock as far as I know. Never heard of MemberAdaptor. It's a cpanel instal
>of Mailman.


See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp

 
>>> You can see that there is an actual email address in there, which when
>>> searched on returns a valid address. I would like to get rid of these munged
>>> addresses, but when I check the box to unsubscribe them, I get a message
>>> back that says the subscriber is not listed. Some are much longer, some ae
>>> shorter. Any way I can get rid of these things?


I think I understand now. Apparently at one time someone attempted a
mass subscribe from a file or list that contained more than just real
names and e-mail addresses and you got a bunch of bad addresses
subscribed. They appear first in the membership list because they
begin with '#' or other characters that sort before 'a'. The actual
e-mail address was ultimately subscribed and is a list member, but you
still have these other bad member 'addresses'.


See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.013.htp

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From owner at writestop.com  Tue Oct 18 18:29:50 2005
From: owner at writestop.com (Diana Kirk)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 09:29:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List blocking due to bounces
In-Reply-To: <00f901c5d3f3$39e21a40$6401a8c0@DD36XC21>
References: <7410146904.20051018104550@telekom.ru>
	<00f901c5d3f3$39e21a40$6401a8c0@DD36XC21>
Message-ID: <200510180928.06121.owner@writestop.com>

On Tuesday 18 October 2005 07:50 am, Cathy Slayman wrote:
> So, check to see if you are exceeding a set limit as to the number
> of emails your account can send per hour.

I had a similar problem to Cathy's. If you can't find a problem in 
your Mailman setup, you should find out if there's a ceiling on the 
number of e-mails that you can send in an hour. That ceiling 
frequently also includes the number of times you use pop to download 
mail.

You might also want to run a report on your IP address at dnsstuff.com 
to see if there are any problems with its configuration. A lot of 
mail servers will not accept mail if it comes from an IP address that 
does not return a correct rDNS, among other things. The DNSStuff 
report should flag anything about the IP address that could be 
considered an issue.

Sincerely,
Diana
-- 
Registered Linux User #327485
WordStar Users Group Community:
http://wordstar2.com/WordStar_Users
WordStar & Linux: http://wordstar2.com
Mailing Lists: http://wordstar2.com/mailman/listinfo



From ahedges at familyvoices.org  Tue Oct 18 20:21:29 2005
From: ahedges at familyvoices.org (Andrew Hedges)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:21:29 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No address associated with nodename
Message-ID: <20051018182129.596F94A09@relay3.mail.twtelecom.net>

Context: I'm BRAND new to configuring mail servers, so go easy!  ;^)  I'm
running Mailman 2.1.6 on a Mac G4 running OS X 10.4.2 using the default
Postfix and Python installations (versions 2.1.5 and 2.3.5, respectively).

I've read the FAQ and everything else Google could find on the topic, but am
still having the problem characterized by the error messages below:

>From $prefix/logs/post:

Oct 18 11:41:08 2005 (92) post to fv-test from ahedges at familyvoices.org,
size=1356, message-id=<20051018140854.C83774AB4 at relay3.mail.twtelecom.net>,
1 failures

>From $prefix/logs/smtp:

Oct 18 11:41:08 2005 (92)
<20051018140854.C83774AB4 at relay3.mail.twtelecom.net> smtp to fv-test for 1
recips, completed in 2.918 seconds

>From $prefix/logs/smtp-failure:

Oct 18 11:41:10 2005 (92) Low level smtp error: (7, 'No address associated
with nodename'), msgid:
<mailman.0.1129644537.90.fv-test at lists.familyvoices.org>
Oct 18 11:41:10 2005 (92) delivery to ahedges at familyvoices.org failed with
code -1: (7, 'No address associated with nodename')

I don't see any errors in /var/logs/mail.log around that time.  Here are
some of my configs (note: I have experimented with lots of settings, but
these are the ones that were in effect when the above errors occurred):

>From /etc/postifx/main.cf

owner_request_special = no
recipient_delimiter = +
unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550
alias_maps=hash:/etc/postfix/aliases,hash:/Users/macadmin/Mailman/data/alias
es
default_process_limit = 150
qmqr_message_active_limit = 40000
qmgr_message_recipient_limit = 40000
disable_dns_lookups = yes
mydomain = familyvoices.org
myhostname = lists.familyvoices.org
myorigin = $mydomain
mydestination = $myhostname
relayhost =[relay2.mail.twtelecom.net]
mydomain_fallback = lists.familyvoices.org
mynetworks_style = host
smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_mynetworks reject_unauth_destination
transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport

>From $prefix/Mailman/mm_cfg.py:

MTA = "Postfix"
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.familyvoices.org'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.familyvoices.org'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST,DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
DEFAULT_MAX_MESSAGE_SIZE = 64       # KB
SMTPHOST = 'lists'

Any help is appreciated!
-Andrew

PS:  As an aside, is it typical for it to take nearly 3 seconds for Mailman
to process one, puny message to a list with one, puny recipient?  What's the
gate on performance?  Disk speed?  CPU?  Network connection?  Our lists
won't be large (the largest is around 200 members), but we will have about
40 of them.  Will this overload my little Mac?

-----
Andrew Hedges
Technology Coordinator
Family Voices, Inc.
2340 Alamo Ave SE, Suite 102
Albuquerque, NM 87106
505-872-4774 phone
505-872-4780 fax
ahedges at familyvoices.org
http://www.familyvoices.org/




From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Tue Oct 18 20:57:27 2005
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 13:57:27 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No address associated with nodename
In-Reply-To: <20051018182129.596F94A09@relay3.mail.twtelecom.net>
References: <20051018182129.596F94A09@relay3.mail.twtelecom.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.58.0510181353510.7690@albion.stonejongleux.com>

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005, Andrew Hedges wrote:

> Context: I'm BRAND new to configuring mail servers, so go easy!  ;^)  I'm
> running Mailman 2.1.6 on a Mac G4 running OS X 10.4.2 using the default
> Postfix and Python installations (versions 2.1.5 and 2.3.5, respectively).

I'm one of the resident MacOS X experts here although this appears to be a
DNS problem and nothing MacOS X or mailman specific.

> >From $prefix/logs/smtp-failure:
>
> Oct 18 11:41:10 2005 (92) Low level smtp error: (7, 'No address associated
> with nodename'), msgid:
> <mailman.0.1129644537.90.fv-test at lists.familyvoices.org>
> Oct 18 11:41:10 2005 (92) delivery to ahedges at familyvoices.org failed with
> code -1: (7, 'No address associated with nodename')

A cryptic message to be sure but I think it's trying to tell you it can't
resolve lists.familyvoices.org. When I try to lookup that name, I get a
SERVFAIL error which means your DNS is not set up correctly and the server
is encountering an error when trying to resolve lists.familyvoices.org.

Fix that, then see what happens.

-- Larry Stone
   lstone19 at stonejongleux.com




From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Tue Oct 18 21:13:39 2005
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:13:39 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No address associated with nodename
In-Reply-To: <20051018182129.596F94A09@relay3.mail.twtelecom.net>
References: <20051018182129.596F94A09@relay3.mail.twtelecom.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.58.0510181402210.8084@albion.stonejongleux.com>

Oops, forgot to anwer the second part.

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005, Andrew Hedges wrote:

> Context: I'm BRAND new to configuring mail servers, so go easy!  ;^)  I'm
> running Mailman 2.1.6 on a Mac G4 running OS X 10.4.2 using the default
> Postfix and Python installations (versions 2.1.5 and 2.3.5, respectively).

> PS:  As an aside, is it typical for it to take nearly 3 seconds for Mailman
> to process one, puny message to a list with one, puny recipient?  What's the
> gate on performance?  Disk speed?  CPU?  Network connection?

It depends, as always. I think the delay may be related to the DNS error.
Whatever time you do see will break down to a "large" per message overhead
with a "small" per recipient time - in other words, just because to send
to one recipient takes X seconds does not mean 100 reipients will take
100X seconds.

> Our lists
> won't be large (the largest is around 200 members), but we will have about
> 40 of them.  Will this overload my little Mac?

How much traffic?

You should be fine. I'm running mailman on a "half-dome" iMac - two major
lists - one has about 50 members and gets 100 or so small (under 5k)
messages per day and the other has about 150 members and 1 100k message
per day. DSL at 384kbps upstream. I don't notice the effect of either list
on computer performance. I would notice the second on DSL bandwidth if I
were up at 2am when that message gets sent - it ties up the connection for
about five minutes (I VERP all messages so to send to those 150 members
means 150 seperate messages going up the DSL line).

-- Larry Stone
   lstone19 at stonejongleux.com




From bob at morsemedia.net  Tue Oct 18 20:10:07 2005
From: bob at morsemedia.net (Bob Morse)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 11:10:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Munged addresses
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510180853110062ba072e69@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BF7A888F.217FD%bob@morsemedia.net>

Thanks. I'm not sure I feel comfortable dinking around in those files. I
guess the user will have to live with those addresses for now.

On 10/18/05 8:53 AM, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Robert Morse wrote:
> 
>> On 10/18/05 8:12 AM, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> Robert Morse wrote:
>>> 
>>> Is this 'stock' Mailman, or does this list use a custom MemberAdaptor?
>> 
>> Stock as far as I know. Never heard of MemberAdaptor. It's a cpanel instal
>> of Mailman.
> 
> 
> See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp
> 
> 
>>>> You can see that there is an actual email address in there, which when
>>>> searched on returns a valid address. I would like to get rid of these
>>>> munged
>>>> addresses, but when I check the box to unsubscribe them, I get a message
>>>> back that says the subscriber is not listed. Some are much longer, some ae
>>>> shorter. Any way I can get rid of these things?
> 
> 
> I think I understand now. Apparently at one time someone attempted a
> mass subscribe from a file or list that contained more than just real
> names and e-mail addresses and you got a bunch of bad addresses
> subscribed. They appear first in the membership list because they
> begin with '#' or other characters that sort before 'a'. The actual
> e-mail address was ultimately subscribed and is a list member, but you
> still have these other bad member 'addresses'.
> 
> 
> See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.013.htp

-----
Bob Morse
Morse Media
Video Production * Web Development * Web Hosting
http://morsemedia.net
(Phone) 707-444-9566
(Fax)   707-476-8049
(Cell)  707-496-9191




From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 18 21:27:15 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:27:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange errors
In-Reply-To: <43550127.2060708@tanis.cso.niu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402005101812271501402716555b@msapiro>

Dan Szkola wrote (in separate posts):
>
>Is there somewhere I can enable more debugging to help get to the bottom of
>this issue? I'm finding next to nothing in the logs that is helpful.


As Brad replied, there are no debugging switches, but I'm not sure that
this would be helpful in this case anyway. The traceback you get in
sendmail's DSN tells us what happens, and the why doesn't seem to be
Mailman. Also, the error occurs in the import of the logging module so
there is a catch 22 in trying to log information about the error.

Next time this occurs, you could look to see if Python's traceback.py
is actually in the library. Normally, there will be a traceback.py,
traceback.pyc and traceback.pyo in /usr/lib/python2.4, but only the
traceback.py should be necessary. The others are compiled versions
that will be (re)created as needed.


>I restarted only the mailman processes using bin/mailmanctl restart and 
>post still
>generate the error above.


This is further confirmation that the problem isn't Mailman per se. The
only thing I can think is that somehow something that affects Python
is being set by sendmail in the environment that it passes to the
wrapper, and that this only happens after a number of posts.
Environment variables that affect Python should begin with 'PYTHON'
and are described on the python man page.

You could try the following patch to the $prefix/scripts/post script to
print the environment each time it is invoked. Assuming sendmail
doesn't choke on this in the normal case, it should appear in the DSN
in the error case.

Patch---------------------------------------------
--- scripts/post        2005-10-14 16:31:41.937500000 -0700
+++ scripts/post_patched        2005-10-18 12:14:18.031250000 -0700
@@ -27,6 +27,9 @@
 """

 import sys
+from os import environ
+for env_var in environ:
+    print env_var, environ[env_var]

 import paths
 from Mailman import mm_cfg
End Patch---------------------------------------------

Perhaps a better plan would be to patch the $prefix/scripts/admin
script instead (same patch). Presumably mail to the listname-admin
address will bounce the same way when the problem occurs because it
begins with the same imports, but listname-admin is a deprecated name
and shouldn't be receiving mail normally, so patching the admin script
and sending mail to listname-admin should get the information you want
in the DSN without possibly choking sendmail in the 'normal' case.

>I will put the line below into the mm_cfg.py 
>file and
>restart sendmail and watch what happens.
>
>>I have no reason other than superstition for the following suggestion,
>>but try
>>
>>SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION = 1
>>
>>in mm_cfg.py and see if that helps. This will cause Mailman to close
>>the SMTP connection to sendmail after each transaction. This might
>>avoid the problem, but since I have no idea what the problem is, I
>>have no idea if this will help.


OK. Let us know.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 18 21:46:10 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:46:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No address associated with nodename
In-Reply-To: <20051018182129.596F94A09@relay3.mail.twtelecom.net>
Message-ID: <PC174020051018124610039027165650@msapiro>

Andrew Hedges wrote:
>
>Oct 18 11:41:10 2005 (92) Low level smtp error: (7, 'No address associated
>with nodename'), msgid:
><mailman.0.1129644537.90.fv-test at lists.familyvoices.org>
>Oct 18 11:41:10 2005 (92) delivery to ahedges at familyvoices.org failed with
>code -1: (7, 'No address associated with nodename')

<snip>

>>From $prefix/Mailman/mm_cfg.py:
>
>MTA = "Postfix"
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.familyvoices.org'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.familyvoices.org'
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST,DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>DEFAULT_MAX_MESSAGE_SIZE = 64       # KB
>SMTPHOST = 'lists'

The problem is Python's smtplib is not able to find the domain 'lists'
to connect to. Remove "SMTPHOST = 'lists'" from mm_cfg.py and let this
default to 'localhost'.

>
>PS:  As an aside, is it typical for it to take nearly 3 seconds for Mailman
>to process one, puny message to a list with one, puny recipient?


No, but this probably reflects the time required to determine that the
DNS lookup of 'lists' is unsuccessful.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Tue Oct 18 21:58:19 2005
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:58:19 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No address associated with nodename
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSX.4.58.0510181353510.7690@albion.stonejongleux.com>
References: <20051018182129.596F94A09@relay3.mail.twtelecom.net>
	<Pine.OSX.4.58.0510181353510.7690@albion.stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.58.0510181457200.10277@albion.stonejongleux.com>

On Tue, 18 Oct 2005, Larry Stone wrote:

> A cryptic message to be sure but I think it's trying to tell you it can't
> resolve lists.familyvoices.org. When I try to lookup that name, I get a
> SERVFAIL error which means your DNS is not set up correctly and the server
> is encountering an error when trying to resolve lists.familyvoices.org.

Disregard this. DNS appears fine now. Perhaps a transient problem at your
ISP or perhaps I mistyped the name when checking.

-- Larry Stone
   lstone19 at stonejongleux.com




From ahedges at familyvoices.org  Tue Oct 18 22:22:50 2005
From: ahedges at familyvoices.org (Andrew Hedges)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:22:50 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No address associated with nodename
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSX.4.58.0510181451080.10277@albion.stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <20051018202250.6CB7C4F41@relay3.mail.twtelecom.net>

YES!  That was exactly it.  I commented out the SMTPHOST line (letting it
default to localhost) and all's well.  Thanks!

-Andrew
-----
Andrew Hedges
Technology Coordinator
Family Voices, Inc.
2340 Alamo Ave SE, Suite 102
Albuquerque, NM 87106
505-872-4774 phone
505-872-4780 fax
ahedges at familyvoices.org
http://www.familyvoices.org/


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry Stone [mailto:lstone19 at stonejongleux.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 1:57 PM
> To: Andrew Hedges
> Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] No address associated with nodename
>
> On Tue, 18 Oct 2005, Andrew Hedges wrote:
>
> > Thanks for your reply, Larry!  To make sure I understand
> (so I can hassle my
> > ISP), is it Mailman that's having trouble looking up
> lists.familyvoices.org?
> > Is it Postfix?  I *guess* they use some system-level service for DNS
> > lookups, right, like the DNS servers saved in my Network
> prefs?  I've had A
> > and MX records setup with my ISP for several days, so
> propogation shouldn't
> > be the problem.
>
> See Mark Sapiro's reply sent almost at the same time as yours. He's
> probably closer that you have a bad value for SMTPHOST. Just let it
> default to localhost.
>
> I checked the addresses again and now all seems fine. Perhaps
> a transient
> problem with your ISP or maybe I fat-fingered the name.
>
> Yes, eveything uses the same low level stuff to do DNS
> lookups (lookupd).
>
> -- Larry Stone
>    lstone19 at stonejongleux.com




From support at web.ca  Tue Oct 18 22:40:49 2005
From: support at web.ca (Web User Support)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:40:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot View Subscribers' List - Mailman 2.1.5
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20051018163619.0321a4a8@imap.web.ca>

Hi,

This is my first time posting to this list; I hope someone can help me.

One of our clients is unable to view their subscriber list via the listinfo 
page; the result insists on a "valid email address". The client *is* using 
a valid address and I have confirmed that she has the correct password. I 
have also failed to log in via our master user-name and I have re-set the 
password.

Does anyone have any ideas about solving this?

Many thanks,


Geoff


Geoffrey Dow, Support Team Leader/Dirigeant de l'?quipe du soutien
support at web.ca
   416.596.0212 x2 - 1.800.932.7003 x2
   Fax: 416-596-1374
401 Richmond St. West, Suite 384, Toronto, ON   M5V 3A8
www.web.ca  support.web.ca  community.web.ca
*Website services for socially committed organizations* 




From amahoro at adinet.com.uy  Tue Oct 18 23:39:33 2005
From: amahoro at adinet.com.uy (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arlequ=EDn?=)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 18:39:33 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exporting subscribers list
In-Reply-To: <20041120003511.GJ6278@server.onjapan.net>
References: <419E24D4.7080901@adinet.com.uy>
	<20041120003511.GJ6278@server.onjapan.net>
Message-ID: <43556B95.5020803@adinet.com.uy>

Hello.

I am tring your  mailman-subscribers.py script using ActiveState Python
2.4 with ClientCookie enabled.

I am trying to fetch the subscribers list from my WindowsXP box to a
hosting service where I have 2000+ subscribers I type:

python.exe mailman-subscribers.py -v sg-guarani.org newsletter mypassword

And I get a 0....

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks in advance.


On 19/11/2004 21:35, Jim Tittsler wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 19, 2004 at 01:52:36PM -0300, Arlequ?n wrote:
> 
>>I am using MailMain trough its web-based interface. I don't have access
>>to the server where its runs, because it's a third-party hosting company
>>which provides me the MailMan service.
>>
>>I want to export the subscribers list in a format like this:
>>
>>subscriber1 at mydomain.com
>>subscriber2 at mydomain.com
> 
> 
> mailman-subscribers.py is example program showing how you can
> get that sort of list through the web interface.  It is available
> from;
>   <http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#throughtheweb>
> 


-- 
Arlequ?n                             _o)
amahoro_AT_adinet_DOT_com_DOT_uy     / \\
http://counter.li.org/             _(___V
Linux Registered User              #207262




From anner at blast.com  Tue Oct 18 22:41:45 2005
From: anner at blast.com (Anne Ramey)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:41:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding list on virtual domain
Message-ID: <43555E09.70709@blast.com>

I want to change a list I added to the main domain on the list server to 
  the equivalent of having added the list as listname at www.myotherdomain.com
I would have thought this was the preferred domain variable in the 
general options, but it's still taking me to 
http://maindomain.com/mailman/admin/listname/members etc instead of
http://www.myotherdomain.com/mailman/admin/listname/members

?
Anne


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 18 23:33:57 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:33:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Munged addresses
In-Reply-To: <BF7A888F.217FD%bob@morsemedia.net>
Message-ID: <PC174020051018143357092127165892@msapiro>

Bob Morse wrote:

>Thanks. I'm not sure I feel comfortable dinking around in those files. I
>guess the user will have to live with those addresses for now.

OK. Here are some other things you might feel comfortable with. I
suspect the first two won't work, but they are worth a try.

1) click on the bad address link on the member list. if this gets you
to an options page for the bad address, check the 'Yes, I really want
to unsubscribe' box and click 'Unsubscribe'.

2a) if 1) doesn't work, try

bin/list_members --output bad_member_file --invalid list_name

Check the contents of bad_member_file to make sure it doesn't contain
any good entries. It may not contain all the bad ones either. If it
doesn't, you could do

bin/list_members --output member_file list_name

and edit that to remove the good ones or copy/paste the missing bad
ones.

2b) Then try

bin/remove_members --file=bad_member_file list_name

3) You may not be comfortable with this one, but if 2b) doesn't work,
try this:

$ bin/withlist -l listname
Loading list listname (locked)
The variable `m' is the listname MailList instance
>>> fp = open('bad_address_file', 'r')
>>> for address in fp.readlines():
...     addr = address.strip()
...     try:
...         m.removeMember(addr)
...         print 'Removed', addr
...     except Errors.NotAMemberError:
...         print 'Not a member', addr
...
Not a member a at b.c
Not a member d at e.f
Not a member g at h.i
>>> m.Save()
>>>
Unlocking (but not saving) list: listname
Finalizing
$

In the above, '$' is a shell prompt; '>>>' and '...' are Python
prompts; other lines are responses from Python. The input to the final
... prompt is a new-line (CR or Enter) and the input to the final >>>
prompt is control-D (Unix end of file). The indentation on the ...
prompted lines is important.

In my case, bad_address_file contained the 3 addresses a at b.c, d at e.f and
g at h.i, none of which were list members.

If you are not happy with what you see at any point, you can just type
the control-D without first entering m.Save() and the list will not be
changed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 18 23:43:20 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 14:43:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot View Subscribers' List - Mailman 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20051018163619.0321a4a8@imap.web.ca>
Message-ID: <PC17402005101814432004062716566a@msapiro>

Web User Support wrote:
>
>One of our clients is unable to view their subscriber list via the listinfo 
>page; the result insists on a "valid email address". The client *is* using
>a valid address and I have confirmed that she has the correct password. I
>have also failed to log in via our master user-name and I have re-set the
>password.
>
>Does anyone have any ideas about solving this?


Is the roster available to list members or only to the admin? (it says
on the listinfo page) See private roster on Privacy
options...Subscription rules.

Not that if it is a private roster, even if she is the list admin, she
must use the list admin password to view the roster. Her member
password won't work unless the roster is available to members.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 19 04:12:41 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 19:12:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding list on virtual domain
In-Reply-To: <43555E09.70709@blast.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510181912410703cf82cae8@msapiro>

Anne Ramey wrote:

>I want to change a list I added to the main domain on the list server to 
>  the equivalent of having added the list as listname at www.myotherdomain.com
>I would have thought this was the preferred domain variable in the 
>general options, but it's still taking me to 
>http://maindomain.com/mailman/admin/listname/members etc instead of
>http://www.myotherdomain.com/mailman/admin/listname/members

Presumably you're talking about host_name which is the e-mail domain
but not the web domain. What you need to change is web_page_url which
is not visible in the admin interface.

The preferred way to change this is via the fix_url script. Run
bin/fix_url.py for instructions.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 19 04:50:52 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 19:50:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exporting subscribers list
In-Reply-To: <43556B95.5020803@adinet.com.uy>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510181950520765cf82cb31@msapiro>

Arlequ?n wrote:
>
>I am tring your  mailman-subscribers.py script using ActiveState Python
>2.4 with ClientCookie enabled.
>
>I am trying to fetch the subscribers list from my WindowsXP box to a
>hosting service where I have 2000+ subscribers I type:
>
>python.exe mailman-subscribers.py -v sg-guarani.org newsletter mypassword
>
>And I get a 0....

Granted the script should be more robust, but it's only an example...

First, what version of mailman-subscribers.py do you have? The latest
is 2005-06-14. There have been at least 5 revisions since November
2004.

The current version when run with the -v option emits '0(0)' as it
retrieves the first page of the member list and then perhaps 'a(0)' as
it gets the first page of 'a' and 'a(1)' for the second page of a and
so on.

I can make it emit '0(0)' and nothing more if I misspell the listname
or the list password, but I am running the latest version with Python
2.4.1 so it uses Python's cookielib instead of ClientCookie. I seem to
remember that -v used to work differently, but I don't recall the
details and no longer have any old versions.

If you literally mean it prints '0' and then slowly adds '.', it is
probably printing one '.' per page of admin_member_chunksize or less
members which would be 70+ dots for 2000+ members with the standard
default of 30 for admin_member_chunksize.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mmlist at infobrok.es  Wed Oct 19 12:27:27 2005
From: mmlist at infobrok.es (David Cuenca)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:27:27 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with bounces and qmail+mailman+vpopmail
Message-ID: <43561F8F.1090209@infobrok.es>

Every day, in my server mailman registers new bounces and stablishes new 
scores. But there are bounces that never arrives to mailman, because 
some times, at some point, the addresses become wrong. Then, qmail sends 
me (postmaster) a message notifying that a bounce could not been sent.

Some times in this failure notice I can read that the original bounce 
was sent to:

mylist-bounces-client=clientdomain at lists.mydomain.com

but afterwards qmail-send says:

Hi. This is the qmail-send program at servername.mydomain.com.
I tried to deliver a bounce message to this address, but the bounce bounced!

<mylist-bounces-client=clientdomail at servername.mydomain.com>:
Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.1.1)

Not to lists.mydomain.com!!! And of course, mailman never receive this 
bounce!


Another times the original bounce is sent to

mylist-bounces-client=clientdomain at servername.mydomain.com  WRONG!!





I have followed these instructions: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp
And I have:

.qmail-default with:

	|preline /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qmail-to-mailman.py

.qmail-mylist-bounces-default with:

	|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces myslist

That works fine with some bounces.

The other problem I posted last October 10, 2005, related with this one, 
is still not solved :_(
I wish you could help me. Thanks a lot!




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Oct 19 13:31:56 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:31:56 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with bounces and qmail+mailman+vpopmail
In-Reply-To: <43561F8F.1090209@infobrok.es>
References: <43561F8F.1090209@infobrok.es>
Message-ID: <p0620070abf7bde96103f@[10.0.1.210]>

At 12:27 PM +0200 2005-10-19, David Cuenca wrote:

>  Every day, in my server mailman registers new bounces and stablishes new
>  scores. But there are bounces that never arrives to mailman, because
>  some times, at some point, the addresses become wrong. Then, qmail sends
>  me (postmaster) a message notifying that a bounce could not been sent.

	I've read through the message, and I'm not seeing anything here 
that is obviously a Mailman problem.  If you have a qmail problem, 
you should be posting to their mailing lists, reading their FAQs and 
other documentation, etc....

	Unfortunately, qmail hasn't seen any real development in about 
seven years, so you might have to consider upgrading to a more modern 
MTA, such as postfix, one of the more recent releases of sendmail, or 
maybe Exim.


	Without more information, and more specific information, I doubt 
that we're going to be able to help you.  Show us slices from the 
logs and copies of information from real bounces and stop trying to 
obfuscate things, and we might possibly be able to help.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From support at web.ca  Wed Oct 19 15:32:51 2005
From: support at web.ca (Web User Support)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:32:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot View Subscribers' List - Mailman  2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <mailman.30.1129716019.7464.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20051019093047.01fabe30@imap.web.ca>


Web User Support wrote:
 >
 >>One of our clients is unable to view their subscriber list via the listinfo
 >>page; the result insists on a "valid email address". The client *is* using
 >>a valid address and I have confirmed that she has the correct password. I
 >>have also failed to log in via our master user-name and I have re-set the
 >>password.
 >
 >>Does anyone have any ideas about solving this?

 >Is the roster available to list members or only to the admin? (it says
 >on the listinfo page) See private roster on Privacy
 >options...Subscription rules.

It's set to admin-only and she *is* one of them. I also re-set her admin 
password, but without success.


g

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From jeanne at notes444.com  Wed Oct 19 16:17:43 2005
From: jeanne at notes444.com (Jeanne Goodman)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 10:17:43 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approved Headers
Message-ID: <12e601c5d4b8$377c6f60$6400a8c0@Gateway>

(I've looked for this in archives, but I must have the wrong search phrases.)

Could someone tell me how to edit the headers in Outlook Express so that I can approve or resend messages from there?

Also, can you give me an example the format of a header with an approved header in it?

Thanks

Jeanne

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 19 17:50:30 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 08:50:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot View Subscribers' List - Mailman  2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20051019093047.01fabe30@imap.web.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510190850300109a4cd2eab@msapiro>

Web User Support wrote:
>
> >Is the roster available to list members or only to the admin? (it says
> >on the listinfo page) See private roster on Privacy
> >options...Subscription rules.
>
>It's set to admin-only and she *is* one of them. I also re-set her admin 
>password, but without success.


The admin e-mail addresses mean nothing to mailman other than being
addresses to which admin e-mail is sent. The only thing that
identifies an admin to the mailman web interface is knowledge of the
list admin password.

Are you saying she can log on to the admin interface and do list admin
functions, but she can't see the roster using the exact same password?

What happens if she goes to the admin General Options page and after
logging in, goes directly to a URL which is the same except 'admin' is
replaced by 'roster'? Or for that matter, after logging in as admin,
just goes to the listinfo page and clicks 'Visit Subscriber List'
without filling in any address or password?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From szkola at tanis.cso.niu.edu  Wed Oct 19 18:13:39 2005
From: szkola at tanis.cso.niu.edu (Dan Szkola)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:13:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange errors
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005101812271501402716555b@msapiro>
References: <PC17402005101812271501402716555b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <435670B3.4050208@tanis.cso.niu.edu>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Dan Szkola wrote (in separate posts):
>  
>
>You could try the following patch to the $prefix/scripts/post script to
>print the environment each time it is invoked. Assuming sendmail
>doesn't choke on this in the normal case, it should appear in the DSN
>in the error case.
>  
>
Patched the admin script as suggested. When I saw the error this 
morning, I emailed
to the admin address of our test list. Here is what I got:

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
PYTHONPATH /usr/local/mailman
AGENT sendmail
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/admin", line 36, in ?
    from Mailman.Queue.sbcache import get_switchboard
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/sbcache.py", line 19, in ?
    from Mailman.Queue.Switchboard import Switchboard
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 47, in ?
    from Mailman.Logging.Syslog import syslog
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Syslog.py", line 22, in ?
    from Mailman.Logging.StampedLogger import StampedLogger
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py", line 20, in ?
    from Mailman.Logging.Logger import Logger
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 25, in ?
    from Mailman.Logging.Utils import _logexc
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.py", line 18, in ?
    import traceback
ImportError: No module named traceback
554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1

--
Dan Szkola
Sr Unix Systems Programmer
Northern Illinois University



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 19 18:38:49 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:38:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approved Headers
In-Reply-To: <12e601c5d4b8$377c6f60$6400a8c0@Gateway>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510190938490312ab32e209@msapiro>

Jeanne Goodman wrote:

>(I've looked for this in archives, but I must have the wrong search phrases.)
>
>Could someone tell me how to edit the headers in Outlook Express so that I can approve or resend messages from there?


This is not a Mailman question, and I'm not a MS-OE expert, but I don't
know of a way to add a custom header to mail sent by OE.


>Also, can you give me an example the format of a header with an approved header in it?


Because it is awkward or impossible with some MUAs (mail clients) to
add a custom header to an individual message, Mailman also looks at
the first non-blank line of the first text/plain part of the message
for an Approved: header, i.e., a line that begins with 'Approved:'
(Approve: is also accepted). If it finds such a line, it checks for
the list password and in any case, removes the Approved: line from the
message if it is a post.

If you are approving a held message in response to a notification, the
notification will have two attachments in OE. One of these is the
original message, and the other is an e-mail message with subject like
'confirm 079b0381a67628da958ae2da5c095606d9006dc4'. If you open this
message attachment in OE, I believe you will be able to reply to it.
The reply will go to the listname-request address and will have
subject 'Re: confirm 079b0381a67628da958ae2da5c095606d9006dc4'. The
Re: is not required but is OK, the string of hex digits will of course
be different.

If you send that reply, the original post will be discarded. If you
first edit the reply so the first line is 'Approved: list_password',
the post will be approved. These instructions are also in the body of
that attached message.

If you are trying to send a post to the list which might otherwise be
held, you can also include an Approved: line as the first body line.
In this case, it is trickier, because the message will go to the list
and if it is multipart/alternative with an html part, the Approved:
line won't be removed from the html part. So you have to set OE before
composing the message to send plain text. This is Tools->Options->Send
tab, Mail Sending Format - Plain Text. You also have to follow the
Approved: line with a blank line because current Mailman versions
remove both the Approved: line and the first remaining line.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jeanne at notes444.com  Wed Oct 19 18:54:38 2005
From: jeanne at notes444.com (Jeanne Goodman)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:54:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approved Headers
References: <PC1740200510190938490312ab32e209@msapiro>
Message-ID: <13d901c5d4cd$cdd85c20$6400a8c0@Gateway>

Thank you very much. You have cleared up a lot of things.

Can you recommend a Windows Friendly MUA that does allow one to add a custom 
header?

Is there any way to edit a message before approval with my mail client 
limitation? I saw in the FAQs how to edit a message by forwarding it to 
yourself and changing the headers.

Jeanne Goodman


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
To: "Jeanne Goodman" <jeanne at notes444.com>; <mailman-users at python.org>
...
> Because it is awkward or impossible with some MUAs (mail clients) to
> add a custom header to an individual message, Mailman also looks at
> the first non-blank line of the first text/plain part of the message
> for an Approved: header, i.e., a line that begins with 'Approved:'
> (Approve: is also accepted). If it finds such a line, it checks for
> the list password and in any case, removes the Approved: line from the
> message if it is a post.

.... 



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 19 19:24:52 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 10:24:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange errors
In-Reply-To: <435670B3.4050208@tanis.cso.niu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510191024520000468d3094@msapiro>

Dan Szkola wrote:

>Patched the admin script as suggested. When I saw the error this 
>morning, I emailed
>to the admin address of our test list. Here is what I got:
>
>   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>PYTHONPATH /usr/local/mailman

I wouldn't have expected this, but I don't think it should matter.

What do you get if you add to the patch as follows

--- admin       2005-10-14 16:31:42.078125000 -0700
+++ admin_patched       2005-10-19 10:21:51.328125000 -0700
@@ -25,8 +25,16 @@
 """

 import sys
+from os import environ
+for env_var in environ:
+    print env_var, environ[env_var]
+for s_path in sys.path:
+    print 'before =', s_path

 import paths
+for s_path in sys.path:
+    print 'after =', s_path
+
 from Mailman import mm_cfg
 from Mailman import Utils
 from Mailman.i18n import _



-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From damico.1 at osu.edu  Wed Oct 19 19:42:00 2005
From: damico.1 at osu.edu (JOSEPH DAMICO)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:42:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Interface questions
Message-ID: <1d121d31d11ce4.1d11ce41d121d3@osu.edu>

Hello,

We are considering a conversion from Listproc to Mailman. We have a few concerns, but our chief one is authentication.  Here are two questions in this regard:

(a) We would like to have Mailman interface with our Kerberos system, so that the passwords our students and faculty use for their e-mail, course logins, and almost every other authentication procedure would be the same passwords they use to access mailing lists.

Has anyone developed a Mailman-Kerberos interface?

(b) A number of people subscribed to our lists are from outside the university, so a Mailman-Kerberos interface would not work for them.
Ideally, we would have users communicate with another program (such as Shibboleth).  Then we would determine whether to use the Kerberos interface (for university people) or the regular Mailman password (for those non-university people) to communicate with Mailman.

Has anyone developed a Mailman-Shibboleth interface?

--------------------------
Joe Damico
e-mail: damico.1 at osu.edu






From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 19 19:47:32 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 10:47:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with bounces and qmail+mailman+vpopmail
In-Reply-To: <43561F8F.1090209@infobrok.es>
Message-ID: <PC174020051019104732025076ccb35a@msapiro>

David Cuenca <mmlist at infobrok.es>
   Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:27:27 +0200
     To: mailman-users at python.org

>Every day, in my server mailman registers new bounces and stablishes new 
>scores. But there are bounces that never arrives to mailman, because 
>some times, at some point, the addresses become wrong. Then, qmail sends 
>me (postmaster) a message notifying that a bounce could not been sent.
>
>Some times in this failure notice I can read that the original bounce 
>was sent to:
>
>mylist-bounces-client=clientdomain at lists.mydomain.com


Are you sure? If you haven't changed VERP_PROBE_FORMAT in mm_cfg.py,
this should be

mylist-bounces+client=clientdomain at lists.mydomain.com

If you have changed the '+' to '-' in VERP_PROBE_FORMAT in mm_cfg.py,
you should remove that change, and fix whatever problem caused you to
change it in qmail and not in Mailman.
>but afterwards qmail-send says:
>
>Hi. This is the qmail-send program at servername.mydomain.com.
>I tried to deliver a bounce message to this address, but the bounce bounced!
>
><mylist-bounces-client=clientdomail at servername.mydomain.com>:
>Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.1.1)
>
>Not to lists.mydomain.com!!! And of course, mailman never receive this 
>bounce!
>
>
>Another times the original bounce is sent to
>
>mylist-bounces-client=clientdomain at servername.mydomain.com  WRONG!!
>
>
>
>I have followed these instructions: 
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp


Did you do the fix_url part for existing lists?


>And I have:
>
>.qmail-default with:
>
>	|preline /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qmail-to-mailman.py
>
>.qmail-mylist-bounces-default with:
>
>	|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces myslist
>
>That works fine with some bounces.



It's working with normal bounces, but not with the VERP like probe
messages


>
>The other problem I posted last October 10, 2005, related with this one, 
>is still not solved :_(


This is the same as the first issue above and it is a qmail issue. Did
you see my reply to your post of Oct 10 which is at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-October/046994.html

I am not including you as an addressee of this reply as I normally
would in the hope that you are receiving from the list at least. If
you did see the above reply, what didn't you understand?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jdennis at redhat.com  Wed Oct 19 19:59:45 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:59:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Interface questions
In-Reply-To: <1d121d31d11ce4.1d11ce41d121d3@osu.edu>
References: <1d121d31d11ce4.1d11ce41d121d3@osu.edu>
Message-ID: <1129744785.18478.17.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Wed, 2005-10-19 at 13:42 -0400, JOSEPH DAMICO wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> We are considering a conversion from Listproc to Mailman. We have a few concerns, but our chief one is authentication.  Here are two questions in this regard:
> 
> (a) We would like to have Mailman interface with our Kerberos system, so that the passwords our students and faculty use for their e-mail, course logins, and almost every other authentication procedure would be the same passwords they use to access mailing lists.
> 
> Has anyone developed a Mailman-Kerberos interface?
> 
> (b) A number of people subscribed to our lists are from outside the university, so a Mailman-Kerberos interface would not work for them.
> Ideally, we would have users communicate with another program (such as Shibboleth).  Then we would determine whether to use the Kerberos interface (for university people) or the regular Mailman password (for those non-university people) to communicate with Mailman.
> 
> Has anyone developed a Mailman-Shibboleth interface?

To the best of my knowledge neither has been developed. However, it
isn't terribly hard and you should consider developing it yourself and
contributing the code.

Here is what you would need to do:

Mailman comes with a member adapter plugin. You would override the
method authenticateMember() to perform a authentication validation. I'm
not sure if there is an existing python module for kerberos
authentication, if not you would need to write one that checks the
user's ticket. You would also need to add some code to automatically
invoke your member adapter. You also need a method to determine if the
user is in your kerberos realm, -or- you could attempt a kerberos
authentication and if you get a "unknown principal" error attempt
authentication with your fallback mechanism.

Mailman lets its members set and get their passwords, YOU DO NOT WANT to
allow this with kerberos so you would probably also override
setMemberPassword() and getMemberPassword() to be a no-op. You would
also want to configure the site defaults to never send password
reminders.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From ahedges at familyvoices.org  Wed Oct 19 20:02:38 2005
From: ahedges at familyvoices.org (Andrew Hedges)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:02:38 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Microsoft Outlooks munges attachment headers?
Message-ID: <20051019180239.DA40EC66F@relay2.mail.twtelecom.net>

Thanks again for the help yesterday getting my Mailman installation working!
We're now in the testing phase ... woo hoo!

New question: earlier today, I sent a messsage to my test list from Apple's
Mail.app with an image attached.  It shows up in the archives as a linked
file, as I would have expected:

   http://lists.familyvoices.org/pipermail/fv-test/2005-October/000009.html

Later, I sent a message to the same list from Microsoft Outlook with an
attachment and it displays in the archives inline ... not the desired
behavior!

   http://lists.familyvoices.org/pipermail/fv-test/2005-October/000019.html

Unfortunately, my whole organization uses Outlook.  Is this an unavoidable
side effect of some Microsoft-specific header munging or can I adjust my
list settings (easier than changing Outlook settings for 20 people spread
around the U.S.) so attachments display as links?

I looked through the archives, but didn't see this addressed specifically
(though I could have easily missed it!).  Thanks in advance for any help!

-Andrew
-----
Andrew Hedges
Technology Coordinator
Family Voices, Inc.
2340 Alamo Ave SE, Suite 102
Albuquerque, NM 87106
505-872-4774 phone
505-872-4780 fax
ahedges at familyvoices.org
http://www.familyvoices.org/




From szkola at tanis.cso.niu.edu  Wed Oct 19 20:14:34 2005
From: szkola at tanis.cso.niu.edu (Dan Szkola)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:14:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange errors
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510191024520000468d3094@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200510191024520000468d3094@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43568D0A.4000602@tanis.cso.niu.edu>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Dan Szkola wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Patched the admin script as suggested. When I saw the error this 
>>morning, I emailed
>>to the admin address of our test list. Here is what I got:
>>
>>  ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>>PYTHONPATH /usr/local/mailman
>>    
>>
>
>I wouldn't have expected this, but I don't think it should matter.
>
>What do you get if you add to the patch as follows
>
>--- admin       2005-10-14 16:31:42.078125000 -0700
>+++ admin_patched       2005-10-19 10:21:51.328125000 -0700
>@@ -25,8 +25,16 @@
> """
>
> import sys
>+from os import environ
>+for env_var in environ:
>+    print env_var, environ[env_var]
>+for s_path in sys.path:
>+    print 'before =', s_path
>
> import paths
>+for s_path in sys.path:
>+    print 'after =', s_path
>+
> from Mailman import mm_cfg
> from Mailman import Utils
> from Mailman.i18n import _
>
>
>  
>
   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
PYTHONPATH /usr/local/mailman
AGENT sendmail
before = /usr/local/mailman/scripts
before = /usr/local/mailman
before = /usr/local/lib/python24.zip
before = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/
before = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/plat-sunos5
before = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-tk
before = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload
after = /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib
after = /usr/local/mailman
after = /usr/local/mailman/scripts
after = /usr/local/mailman
after = /usr/local/lib/python24.zip
after = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/
after = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/plat-sunos5
after = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-tk
after = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload
after = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/admin", line 42, in ?
    from Mailman.Queue.sbcache import get_switchboard
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/sbcache.py", line 19, in ?
    from Mailman.Queue.Switchboard import Switchboard
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 47, in ?
    from Mailman.Logging.Syslog import syslog
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Syslog.py", line 22, in ?
    from Mailman.Logging.StampedLogger import StampedLogger
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py", line 20, in ?
    from Mailman.Logging.Logger import Logger
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 25, in ?
    from Mailman.Logging.Utils import _logexc
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.py", line 18, in ?
    import traceback
ImportError: No module named traceback
554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1

Oddly, the correct path statement is the only one with a trailing slash.

--
Dan Szkola
Sr Unix Systems Programmer
Northern Illinois University



From rcartier at apollo.homeip.net  Wed Oct 19 20:14:59 2005
From: rcartier at apollo.homeip.net (Robert Cartier)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:14:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounced mail when sending reminders
Message-ID: <53496.144.160.5.25.1129745699.squirrel@apollo.homeip.net>

I am encountering errors with the smtp servers on Yahoo.
I have updated to use sendmail so that I can login using my
account information and this works for postings. But
when the system sends out reminder emails it doesnt seem
to use the same code and uses smtp direct I am assuming

any help would be greatly appreciated

Rob Cartier


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 19 20:18:03 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:18:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Microsoft Outlooks munges attachment headers?
In-Reply-To: <20051019180239.DA40EC66F@relay2.mail.twtelecom.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510191118030125f1408640@msapiro>

Andrew Hedges wrote:
>
>Later, I sent a message to the same list from Microsoft Outlook with an
>attachment and it displays in the archives inline ... not the desired
>behavior!
>
>   http://lists.familyvoices.org/pipermail/fv-test/2005-October/000019.html
>
>Unfortunately, my whole organization uses Outlook.  Is this an unavoidable
>side effect of some Microsoft-specific header munging or can I adjust my
>list settings (easier than changing Outlook settings for 20 people spread
>around the U.S.) so attachments display as links?

The issue is that the 'attachment' is not being sent as a separate MIME
part. It is just a uuencoded file that is included as part of the
text/plain message. There is no Mailman setting to see it as an
attachment. I would say that any MUA/mail client that sees it as an
attachment is brain dead and should be put out of it's misery, but
that would be unkind.

You have to set Outlook to send MIME attachments rather than uuencoded.
Unfortunately, a nagging feeling arises from the dusty recesses of my
mind saying that selecting 'uuencode' for 'attachments' instead of
MIME is a workaround for not otherwise being able to send plain text
rather than HTML, but I have no direct knowledge of Outlook and how to
configure it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jdennis at redhat.com  Wed Oct 19 20:20:51 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 14:20:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Interface questions
In-Reply-To: <1d121d31d11ce4.1d11ce41d121d3@osu.edu>
References: <1d121d31d11ce4.1d11ce41d121d3@osu.edu>
Message-ID: <1129746051.18478.30.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Wed, 2005-10-19 at 13:42 -0400, JOSEPH DAMICO wrote:

> (a) We would like to have Mailman interface with our Kerberos system...

hmm... thinking about this a bit more, while getting mailman to
authenticate with kerberos wouldn't be hard you're going to run into
some other nasty problems you can't ignore

1) The web pages will prompt for credentials, you do not want this
because kerberos is a single signon system (SSO). You would want to
remove this prompting, that is a larger task. But you may need to retain
it for users not your kerberos realm, but see points 2 and 3.

2) You will be dependent on external mechanisms for ticket generation.
That may or may not play well for your mailman user community. For
example if I'm trying to access mailman remotely via the web how would I
establish a ticket?

3) Unless you force all your mailman URL's to use SSL (TLS) and you
allow password entry you will have exposed a very critical password to
the world, potentially the kerberos passwords of your entire user
community. Mailman currently transmits passwords in the clear in many
circumstances, the only reason this has not become more of an issue is
because user's are encouraged not to use an important password for
mailman.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From carbonnb at gmail.com  Wed Oct 19 21:44:12 2005
From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:44:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approved Headers
In-Reply-To: <13d901c5d4cd$cdd85c20$6400a8c0@Gateway>
References: <PC1740200510190938490312ab32e209@msapiro>
	<13d901c5d4cd$cdd85c20$6400a8c0@Gateway>
Message-ID: <e04a6c920510191244o6e7d0113p@mail.gmail.com>

On 19/10/05, Jeanne Goodman <jeanne at notes444.com> wrote:
> Thank you very much. You have cleared up a lot of things.
>
> Can you recommend a Windows Friendly MUA that does allow one to add a custom
> header?

Pegasus Mail. http://www.pmail.com.

AFAIC, it's the best windows MUA. And the best part, it's free.

--
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well
preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
shouting "What a great ride!"


From jwblist at olympus.net  Wed Oct 19 22:02:43 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:02:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange errors
In-Reply-To: <43568D0A.4000602@tanis.cso.niu.edu>
Message-ID: <BF7BF473.8A28%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 10/19/05 11:14 AM, "Dan Szkola" <szkola at tanis.cso.niu.edu> wrote:

> Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
>> Dan Szkola wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>> Patched the admin script as suggested. When I saw the error this
>>> morning, I emailed
>>> to the admin address of our test list. Here is what I got:
>>> 
>>>  ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>>> PYTHONPATH /usr/local/mailman
>>>    
>>> 
>> 
>> I wouldn't have expected this, but I don't think it should matter.
>> 
>> What do you get if you add to the patch as follows
>> 
>> --- admin       2005-10-14 16:31:42.078125000 -0700
>> +++ admin_patched       2005-10-19 10:21:51.328125000 -0700
>> @@ -25,8 +25,16 @@
>> """
>> 
>> import sys
>> +from os import environ
>> +for env_var in environ:
>> +    print env_var, environ[env_var]
>> +for s_path in sys.path:
>> +    print 'before =', s_path
>> 
>> import paths
>> +for s_path in sys.path:
>> +    print 'after =', s_path
>> +
>> from Mailman import mm_cfg
>> from Mailman import Utils
>> from Mailman.i18n import _
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> PYTHONPATH /usr/local/mailman
> AGENT sendmail
> before = /usr/local/mailman/scripts
> before = /usr/local/mailman
> before = /usr/local/lib/python24.zip
> before = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/
> before = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/plat-sunos5
> before = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-tk
> before = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload
> after = /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib
> after = /usr/local/mailman
> after = /usr/local/mailman/scripts
> after = /usr/local/mailman
> after = /usr/local/lib/python24.zip
> after = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/
> after = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/plat-sunos5
> after = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-tk
> after = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload
> after = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/admin", line 42, in ?
>     from Mailman.Queue.sbcache import get_switchboard
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/sbcache.py", line 19, in ?
>     from Mailman.Queue.Switchboard import Switchboard
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 47, in ?
>     from Mailman.Logging.Syslog import syslog
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Syslog.py", line 22, in ?
>     from Mailman.Logging.StampedLogger import StampedLogger
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py", line 20, in ?
>     from Mailman.Logging.Logger import Logger
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 25, in ?
>     from Mailman.Logging.Utils import _logexc
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.py", line 18, in ?
>     import traceback
> ImportError: No module named traceback
> 554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1
> 
> Oddly, the correct path statement is the only one with a trailing slash.


Have we eliminated the possibility that--due to some unfortunate
event--there really is no traceback module (or it can't be read)?

What do you get from
ls -l /usr/local/lib/python2.4/traceback.py

If it is there, does that file have world read permission?

Do you have multiple Python versions installed?

  --John




From szkola at tanis.cso.niu.edu  Wed Oct 19 22:13:28 2005
From: szkola at tanis.cso.niu.edu (Dan Szkola)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:13:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange errors
In-Reply-To: <BF7BF473.8A28%jwblist@olympus.net>
References: <BF7BF473.8A28%jwblist@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <4356A8E8.4080102@tanis.cso.niu.edu>

John W. Baxter wrote:

>On 10/19/05 11:14 AM, "Dan Szkola" <szkola at tanis.cso.niu.edu> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Dan Szkola wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Patched the admin script as suggested. When I saw the error this
>>>>morning, I emailed
>>>>to the admin address of our test list. Here is what I got:
>>>>
>>>> ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>>>>PYTHONPATH /usr/local/mailman
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>I wouldn't have expected this, but I don't think it should matter.
>>>
>>>What do you get if you add to the patch as follows
>>>
>>>--- admin       2005-10-14 16:31:42.078125000 -0700
>>>+++ admin_patched       2005-10-19 10:21:51.328125000 -0700
>>>@@ -25,8 +25,16 @@
>>>"""
>>>
>>>import sys
>>>+from os import environ
>>>+for env_var in environ:
>>>+    print env_var, environ[env_var]
>>>+for s_path in sys.path:
>>>+    print 'before =', s_path
>>>
>>>import paths
>>>+for s_path in sys.path:
>>>+    print 'after =', s_path
>>>+
>>>from Mailman import mm_cfg
>>>from Mailman import Utils
>>>from Mailman.i18n import _
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>>PYTHONPATH /usr/local/mailman
>>AGENT sendmail
>>before = /usr/local/mailman/scripts
>>before = /usr/local/mailman
>>before = /usr/local/lib/python24.zip
>>before = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/
>>before = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/plat-sunos5
>>before = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-tk
>>before = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload
>>after = /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib
>>after = /usr/local/mailman
>>after = /usr/local/mailman/scripts
>>after = /usr/local/mailman
>>after = /usr/local/lib/python24.zip
>>after = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/
>>after = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/plat-sunos5
>>after = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-tk
>>after = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload
>>after = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages
>>Traceback (most recent call last):
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/admin", line 42, in ?
>>    from Mailman.Queue.sbcache import get_switchboard
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/sbcache.py", line 19, in ?
>>    from Mailman.Queue.Switchboard import Switchboard
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 47, in ?
>>    from Mailman.Logging.Syslog import syslog
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Syslog.py", line 22, in ?
>>    from Mailman.Logging.StampedLogger import StampedLogger
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py", line 20, in ?
>>    from Mailman.Logging.Logger import Logger
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 25, in ?
>>    from Mailman.Logging.Utils import _logexc
>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.py", line 18, in ?
>>    import traceback
>>ImportError: No module named traceback
>>554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1
>>
>>Oddly, the correct path statement is the only one with a trailing slash.
>>    
>>
>
>
>Have we eliminated the possibility that--due to some unfortunate
>event--there really is no traceback module (or it can't be read)?
>
>What do you get from
>ls -l /usr/local/lib/python2.4/traceback.py
>
>If it is there, does that file have world read permission?
>
>Do you have multiple Python versions installed?
>
>  --John
>  
>
Yep. If it didn't exist or was unreadable, wouldn't the script bail under
 normal circumstances?

Anyway, here is the output of an "ls -l /usr/local/lib/python2.4/tr*":

-rw-r--r--   1 bin      bin        28935 May 27 11:59 
/usr/local/lib/python2.4/trace.py
-rw-r--r--   1 bin      bin        22092 May 27 12:01 
/usr/local/lib/python2.4/trace.pyc
-rw-r--r--   1 bin      bin        22030 May 27 12:01 
/usr/local/lib/python2.4/trace.pyo
-rw-r--r--   1 bin      bin        10464 May 27 11:59 
/usr/local/lib/python2.4/traceback.py
-rw-r--r--   1 bin      bin        11030 May 27 12:01 
/usr/local/lib/python2.4/traceback.pyc
-rw-r--r--   1 bin      bin        11030 May 27 12:01 
/usr/local/lib/python2.4/traceback.pyo

I have also tried copying the traceback.py file into various places that 
make sense and I
get the same error. I know it is getting read because it gets compiled 
into a .pyc file.

The python 2.4.1 was compiled from source and is the only python version 
on the box.

--
Dan Szkola
Sr Unix Systems Programmer
Northern Illinois University


From szkola at tanis.cso.niu.edu  Wed Oct 19 22:49:22 2005
From: szkola at tanis.cso.niu.edu (Dan Szkola)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:49:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange errors
In-Reply-To: <BF7BF473.8A28%jwblist@olympus.net>
References: <BF7BF473.8A28%jwblist@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <4356B152.2000008@tanis.cso.niu.edu>

John W. Baxter wrote:

>Do you have multiple Python versions installed?
>  
>
Sigh. Apparently, Sun installs python 2.3 as part of the Gnome install.
I removed it and now I'm getting different errors.

I will restart everything and see if that does not clear up this issue.

The Sun gnome was in /usr/sfw and the modules were in
/usr/sfw/lib/python2.3.

I'll post a followup on what happens either way.

Thanks John for making me look a third time.

--
Dan Szkola



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 20 01:10:24 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:10:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounced mail when sending reminders
In-Reply-To: <53496.144.160.5.25.1129745699.squirrel@apollo.homeip.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510191610240296e34633e0@msapiro>

Robert Cartier wrote:

>I am encountering errors with the smtp servers on Yahoo.
>I have updated to use sendmail so that I can login using my
>account information and this works for postings.


The use of DELIVERY_MODULE = 'Sendmail' is highly discouraged as I'm
sure you know if you've made it work. If the only reason you're using
it is because your outgoing MTA requires username/password
authorization, see
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-October/047082.html


>But
>when the system sends out reminder emails it doesn't seem
>to use the same code and uses smtp direct I am assuming


I don't think that is correct. All outgoing mail is placed in the out
queue and delivered by OutgoingRunner using DELIVERY_MODULE.

I have noticed however that one of my Yahoo addresses that is
subscribed to a list always finds its password reminders in the 'Bulk'
folder even though list posts are delivered normally.

I suspect Yahoo. Do you have any of the actual bounces or just bounce
log information? If you have an actual bounce, what does it say?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 20 01:51:32 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 16:51:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Approved Headers
In-Reply-To: <13d901c5d4cd$cdd85c20$6400a8c0@Gateway>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510191651320546bf9ac4a2@msapiro>

Jeanne Goodman wrote:
>Can you recommend a Windows Friendly MUA that does allow one to add a custom 
>header?


Another response recommends Pegasus Mail.

There are also ports of Mutt which is very functional but not GUI. If
you're interested, search google for mutt+windows,


>Is there any way to edit a message before approval with my mail client 
>limitation? I saw in the FAQs how to edit a message by forwarding it to 
>yourself and changing the headers.


Either the first method in the FAQ can be used, or if you have the
approval notice from Mailman, that already contains the message. You
can save the message and edit it as required. As the FAQ says, "You
should include a notice in the message explaining that the list
moderator has edited the message."

Then you need to 'resend' it with a mail client that can do this.
AFAIK, MS-OE can't do it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 20 03:05:52 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 18:05:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange errors
In-Reply-To: <4356A8E8.4080102@tanis.cso.niu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402005101918055209535b71a4ed@msapiro>

Dan Szkola wrote:

>John W. Baxter wrote:
>
>>On 10/19/05 11:14 AM, "Dan Szkola" <szkola at tanis.cso.niu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>  
>>
>>>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>>
>>>    
>>>
>>>>Dan Szkola wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>>>Patched the admin script as suggested. When I saw the error this
>>>>>morning, I emailed
>>>>>to the admin address of our test list. Here is what I got:
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>>>>>PYTHONPATH /usr/local/mailman
>>>>>   
>>>>>
>>>>>        
>>>>>
>>>>I wouldn't have expected this, but I don't think it should matter.


A closer look reveals that this comes from the wrapper and thus is
always there.


>>>>
>>>>What do you get if you add to the patch as follows
>>>>
>>>>--- admin       2005-10-14 16:31:42.078125000 -0700
>>>>+++ admin_patched       2005-10-19 10:21:51.328125000 -0700
>>>>@@ -25,8 +25,16 @@
>>>>"""
>>>>
>>>>import sys
>>>>+from os import environ
>>>>+for env_var in environ:
>>>>+    print env_var, environ[env_var]
>>>>+for s_path in sys.path:
>>>>+    print 'before =', s_path
>>>>
>>>>import paths
>>>>+for s_path in sys.path:
>>>>+    print 'after =', s_path
>>>>+
>>>>from Mailman import mm_cfg
>>>>from Mailman import Utils
>>>>from Mailman.i18n import _
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>>>   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>>>PYTHONPATH /usr/local/mailman
>>>AGENT sendmail
>>>before = /usr/local/mailman/scripts
>>>before = /usr/local/mailman
>>>before = /usr/local/lib/python24.zip
>>>before = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/
>>>before = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/plat-sunos5
>>>before = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-tk
>>>before = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload
>>>after = /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib
>>>after = /usr/local/mailman
>>>after = /usr/local/mailman/scripts
>>>after = /usr/local/mailman
>>>after = /usr/local/lib/python24.zip
>>>after = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/
>>>after = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/plat-sunos5
>>>after = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-tk
>>>after = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload
>>>after = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages
>>>Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/admin", line 42, in ?
>>>    from Mailman.Queue.sbcache import get_switchboard
>>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/sbcache.py", line 19, in ?
>>>    from Mailman.Queue.Switchboard import Switchboard
>>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 47, in ?
>>>    from Mailman.Logging.Syslog import syslog
>>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Syslog.py", line 22, in ?
>>>    from Mailman.Logging.StampedLogger import StampedLogger
>>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py", line 20, in ?
>>>    from Mailman.Logging.Logger import Logger
>>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 25, in ?
>>>    from Mailman.Logging.Utils import _logexc
>>>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.py", line 18, in ?
>>>    import traceback
>>>ImportError: No module named traceback
>>>554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1
>>>
>>>Oddly, the correct path statement is the only one with a trailing slash.
>>> 


This shouldn't be a problem. I tried adding the slash in my Python
2.4.1 and it didn't matter.

   
>>>
>>
>>
>>Have we eliminated the possibility that--due to some unfortunate
>>event--there really is no traceback module (or it can't be read)?
>>
>>What do you get from
>>ls -l /usr/local/lib/python2.4/traceback.py
>>
>>If it is there, does that file have world read permission?
>>
>>Do you have multiple Python versions installed?
>>
>>  --John
>>  
>>
>Yep. If it didn't exist or was unreadable, wouldn't the script bail under
> normal circumstances?


Yes, unless somehow it becomes unreadable and restarting sendmail makes
it readable again. That's too scary to even think about.


>Anyway, here is the output of an "ls -l /usr/local/lib/python2.4/tr*":
>
>-rw-r--r--   1 bin      bin        28935 May 27 11:59 
>/usr/local/lib/python2.4/trace.py
>-rw-r--r--   1 bin      bin        22092 May 27 12:01 
>/usr/local/lib/python2.4/trace.pyc
>-rw-r--r--   1 bin      bin        22030 May 27 12:01 
>/usr/local/lib/python2.4/trace.pyo
>-rw-r--r--   1 bin      bin        10464 May 27 11:59 
>/usr/local/lib/python2.4/traceback.py
>-rw-r--r--   1 bin      bin        11030 May 27 12:01 
>/usr/local/lib/python2.4/traceback.pyc
>-rw-r--r--   1 bin      bin        11030 May 27 12:01 
>/usr/local/lib/python2.4/traceback.pyo
>
>I have also tried copying the traceback.py file into various places that 
>make sense and I
>get the same error. I know it is getting read because it gets compiled 
>into a .pyc file.


The implications of this are also too scary to think about.


>The python 2.4.1 was compiled from source and is the only python version 
>on the box.

In a later post, you say it wasn't, but you removed the Sun Gnome
Python 2.3. I hope that fixes it, but I doubt it will.

Here's something else to try if it fails again. As the mailman user in
the /usr/local/mailman directory, give the command

python2.4 -S /usr/local/mailman/scripts/admin listname <file

where listname is the name of the list and file contains an arbitrary
rfc822-like message. It can be as simple as

---------------------------------
From: user at example.com
To: junk at example.com
Subject: test

body
--------------------------------

Except for the fact that this doesn't edit the environment passed to
the script, it is the same as invoking the script from the wrapper. If
it works, it will produce an 'unrecognized bounce' which will be
forwarded to the list owner if the option to do so is selected. If it
doesn't work, it will produce a similar output to the above, but the
key is that if it doesn't work, we'll know that the problem, even
though fixed by restarting sendmail and not by restarting Mailman,
occurs even though sendmail doesn't directly invoke the script via the
wrapper. If it does work, we'll know that it involves the script being
invoked through the wrapper.

You could then try

/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin listname <file

to see if it occurs when you rather than sendmail invoke the wrapper,
but this has to be done from the group that sendmail uses, i.e., the
group that the wrapper expects to be invoked by. Otherwise, the
wrapper will complain because this is exactly the security violation
the wrapper is supposed to catch.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 20 06:34:09 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:34:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/PHP/Digest Issue
In-Reply-To: <e7708247050921105878f477da@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005101921340903909e37b8cf@msapiro>

Neal Berwick wrote:
   Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:58:46 -0400

> My apologies in advance if I'm directing this to the wrong location, but


My apologies for not responding sooner, but your post got buried in my
inbox.


>I'm about out of ideas. I recently built a small PHP web form to allow
>individuals to send email updates to our various mailman lists. Everything
>works quite nicely for non-digest users, but when I tried to configure the
>script for digest users, things started to get weird.

<snip>

> Below I list the headers that I'm setting in php, the relevant sections of
>the plaintext digest with incorrectly counted messages/topics and finally
>the relevant sections of the plaintext digest with the correct message
>count.
> Thanks in advance to anyone who has any thoughts
> php:
>
>$boundary='--' . md5( uniqid("IsNealAGenius") );
>$headers = "From: \"Home Office\" <" . $from. ">\n";
>$headers .= "Mime-Version: 1.0\n";
>$headers .= "Content-type: multipart/alternative;\n boundary=\"$boundary\"\n
>X-Mailer: PHP/" . phpversion() . "\n";
>
>$message="\nThis is a multi-part message in MIME format.\n";
>$message.="\n\n--$boundary\n";
>$message.="Content-Type: text/plain; charset=\"us-ascii\"\n";
>$message.="Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit\n\n";
>$mail_to = "test_list at here.com";
>$message .= strip_tags($test);
>$message .= "\n\n--$boundary\n";
>$message .= "Content-Type: text/html; charset=\"us-ascii\"\n";
>$message.="Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit\n\n";
>$message .= $test;


At this point it appears you are missing

$message .= "\n\n--$boundary--\n";


>mail ($mail_to,"test",$message,$headers);
>......................................................................................

<snip>


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From gdermody at pacbell.net  Thu Oct 20 07:32:01 2005
From: gdermody at pacbell.net (Gene Dermody)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:32:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I get an eMail list from the Membership List
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20051019223154.057cbcc0@pop.pacbell.yahoo.com>

Cut & paste won't work for large lists because of the alphabetizing.
I want a simple CSV eMail list of my data.
-G

"Courage is the first of human qualities because it is the quality 
that guarantees all the others." - Sir Winston Churchill

Gene Dermody 63 Whitney St. San Francisco CA 94131-2742 USA
+1.415.821.2991(home) +1.415.904.3804(work) +1.415.373-8015(cell)
+1.877.746.4463 (toll free home) +1.800.887.1373 (toll free eFAX)
http://dermodynamics.com


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 20 07:44:35 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:44:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Monthly password reminders not working
In-Reply-To: <1127409555.28649.1586.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402005101922443505939e37b9b4@msapiro>

Darren G Pifer wrote:
>> 
>> I added this to my version of mailpasswds at line 237:
>> 
>>     print "msg=%s" % (msg)
>>     msg.send(sitelist, **{'errorsto': sitebounce,
>>                           '_nolist' : 1,
>>                           'verp'    : mm_cfg.VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS,
>>                          })
>
>Just to let everyone know, for grins and giggles, I changed the msg.send
>line to:
>
>msg.send(mlist)
>
>and it sent the password reminder. Now I must find out why the original
>code did not work. Can someone who knows python tell me what the second
>argument to msg.send is doing?


It is adding those three items and values to the message metadata (the
msgdata dictionary). I think 'errorsto' once was used to set the
Errors-To: header, but this is now set unconditionally to the envelope
sender in SMTPDirect.py and 'errorsto' is ignored. '_nolist' : 1
causes CookHeaders.py to skip adding rfc 2369 headers. 'verp'    :
mm_cfg.VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS sets VERP delivery based on the value
of VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS in mm_cfg.py or Defaults.py.


>Also, were there changes in the code
>from 2.1.6b4 (our current version) to 2.1.6 for mailpasswds? We will be
>upgrading soon but I wonder if we should do it sooner rather than later.


No. there were no changes in mailpasswds from 2.1.6b1 through the 2.1.6
final release.
 
-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 20 08:00:46 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:00:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I get an eMail list from the Membership
	List
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20051019223154.057cbcc0@pop.pacbell.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005101923004606099e37b9cf@msapiro>

Gene Dermody wrote:

>Cut & paste won't work for large lists because of the alphabetizing.
>I want a simple CSV eMail list of my data.

The preferred way to get a membership list is bin/list_members, but
this won't do if you don't have command line access. There is an
e-mail 'who' command (mail subject help to list-request for details)
and http://www.example.com/mailman/roster/list, but both these do not
show members who've opted to hide themselves from these lists.

If you don't have command line access and the 'who' and 'roster' lists
are incomplete, you have to script the web interface. See
http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#throughtheweb for a
sample script.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From gerrit.bosch at hometa.biz  Thu Oct 20 14:02:29 2005
From: gerrit.bosch at hometa.biz (Gerrit Bosch)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:02:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] webserver
Message-ID: <97f5d07b087036767509e7bd41bc72bd@hometa.biz>

I am very new to Mailman, which I am trying to set up on my G4 mac with 
OSX server. With the 'built-in' Apache/1.3.33 webserver I am able to 
see the Mailman webpages. On the same server a Apache/2.0.52 webserver 
is runningwhich I normally use for my websites. Running both webservers 
on the same machine is no option, so how can I tell Mailman to switch 
to the other webserver eg. how do I instruct Apache/2 where to find the 
mailman webpages.

Hopefully anybody can help me out.

Gerrit Bosch.


From dmantelli at autored.com  Thu Oct 20 15:13:52 2005
From: dmantelli at autored.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mantelli=2C_Dami=E1n__=28AUTORED=29?=)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:13:52 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Consulta sobre QMAIL + MAILMAN
Message-ID: <EOEMIKICPLOEGIBEOCNGIEAJDBAA.dmantelli@autored.com>


Hola, amigos de la lista, estuve leyendo los FAQs de sobre como tengo que
hacer para que funcione el servidor de correo QMAIL en conjunto con el
MAILMAN, vi que muchos hablan de un Script realizado en Python que hace que
no tengas que nunca mas crear los Alias. Realmente estoy bastante confundido
y quisiera saber si alguien me puede guiar como puedo solucionar este
inconveniente.

HI friends, I was reading FAQ about how I must set up the mta QMAIL with
MAILMAN, I saw that a lot of people talk about an script writing in python.
but I cant understand all.  I am very confused. Can somebody help me with
this?.



Dami?n Mantelli - (Administrador de Red) Dpto. de Sistemas
A.C.A.R.A. -[sugit]
Av. Libertador 6250 3? - CP: 1428 -
Ciudad Autonoma de Buenos Aires - Argentina
Tel: (5411) 4787-5200 Int 111
Fax : (5411) 4787-5200 Int 118


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 20 15:43:14 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 06:43:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] webserver
In-Reply-To: <97f5d07b087036767509e7bd41bc72bd@hometa.biz>
Message-ID: <PC174020051020064314067109aebd6d@msapiro>

Gerrit Bosch wrote:

>I am very new to Mailman, which I am trying to set up on my G4 mac with 
>OSX server. With the 'built-in' Apache/1.3.33 webserver I am able to 
>see the Mailman webpages. On the same server a Apache/2.0.52 webserver 
>is runningwhich I normally use for my websites. Running both webservers 
>on the same machine is no option, so how can I tell Mailman to switch 
>to the other webserver eg. how do I instruct Apache/2 where to find the 
>mailman webpages.

http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node10.html and/or

grep -i mailman path_to_apache1.3/httpd.conf

Also see
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From moseley at hank.org  Thu Oct 20 15:57:16 2005
From: moseley at hank.org (Bill Moseley)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 06:57:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass change of settings
Message-ID: <20051020135716.GC19181@hank.org>

How would I change one setting an all lists?  For example, change a
bounce processing setting on every list to be the same setting.

Thanks,


-- 
Bill Moseley
moseley at hank.org



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 20 16:36:29 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 07:36:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hide lists from listinfo page only(leaveonadmin
	page)
In-Reply-To: <web-11778040@calmail-be1.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510200736290828206087f9@msapiro>

Xiaoyan Ma wrote:
>
>Since I need to store a few hundreds listnames in the file, I wonder if it might be better
>to use regular expressions.  Five to six regular expressions should be sufficient to match all the
>list names I want to hide.


Between the two, I'd say whatever is easier for you to maintain is best
- maybe the regexps if they are constant.


>Another option (if it is doable) is to use Mailman's supported advertise feature to hide these
>  lists from both listinfo and admin page. I will subsequently bring up a third page, either a
>"sub-admin" page showing only those hidden course lists, or a "supper admin" page displaying
>all lists.  The goal is that future upgrades won't entail re-customizing the previously customized 
>package files.  But I am afraid this may turn out to be so complicated as to involve security 
>wrapper and other matters.


I think this may be the best way. It is non-trivial but doable. You
need to make the appropriate mods to the Mailman/Cgi/admin.py script
and store the modified script as, say, Mailman/Cgi/sub-admin.py. Then
you also need to make another wrapper, sub-admin, in the cgi-bin/
directory. See src/Makefile  (created by ./configure) or
src/Makefile.in in the distribution hierarchy for info on compiling
the wrappers.

Once you've created the script and the wrapper, you will be OK in an
upgrade as long as you don't change any options to ./configure. If
things are moved or --with-cgi-gid= changes, you'll have to rebuild
the sub-admin wrapper.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 20 16:52:56 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 07:52:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass change of settings
In-Reply-To: <20051020135716.GC19181@hank.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402005102007525604687381852c@msapiro>

Bill Moseley wrote:

>How would I change one setting an all lists?  For example, change a
>bounce processing setting on every list to be the same setting.


With bin/withlist -a and a simple script - see bin/withlist --help for
examples. Note: that you should do the list locking and unlocking in
the script - if you use bin/withlist -a -l and don't unlock the list
after saving it in the script, you'll wind up with locked lists. You
can find more help by searching this list's archives for 'withlist'.

Another method would be a shell script to get the list names (`ls
lists/`) and run bin/config_list -i with a simple input file on all
lists. See bin/config_list -o for the format of the file and note:
that only things you want to change need be in the input.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Michael.Schaarwaechter at ub.uni-dortmund.de  Thu Oct 20 16:56:40 2005
From: Michael.Schaarwaechter at ub.uni-dortmund.de (Michael Schaarwaechter)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:56:40 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mass change of settings
In-Reply-To: <20051020135716.GC19181@hank.org>
References: <20051020135716.GC19181@hank.org>
Message-ID: <4357B028.8030807@ub.uni-dortmund.de>

Bill Moseley said on 20.10.2005 15:57:
> How would I change one setting an all lists?  For example, change a
> bounce processing setting on every list to be the same setting.

Try

for I in `bin/list_lists -b` ;\
    do bin/config_list -i configfile $I ; done

from your mailman dir after you put the option(s) into the configfile.

Cheers,
Michael

-- 
   Michael Schaarwaechter
   http://www.schaarwaechter.de
   http://www.inetbib.de
   http://www.ub.uni-dortmund.de


From jeanne at notes444.com  Thu Oct 20 17:15:35 2005
From: jeanne at notes444.com (Jeanne Goodman)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:15:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Any tips
References: <20051020135716.GC19181@hank.org>
Message-ID: <01ac01c5d589$7619b800$6400a8c0@Gateway>

I manage about 9 different lists on one hosted server. There are two main 
lists that include nearly everyone and then subcommittees each have their 
own list. I've given them all the same password, but it's a drag to have to 
go into each of them and enter the password every time I want to moderate 
messages. Any suggestions to make this simpler?

Jeanne 



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 20 18:35:33 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 09:35:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Any tips
In-Reply-To: <01ac01c5d589$7619b800$6400a8c0@Gateway>
Message-ID: <PC17402005102009353302811e8b035a@msapiro>

Jeanne Goodman wrote:

>I manage about 9 different lists on one hosted server. There are two main 
>lists that include nearly everyone and then subcommittees each have their 
>own list. I've given them all the same password, but it's a drag to have to 
>go into each of them and enter the password every time I want to moderate 
>messages. Any suggestions to make this simpler?


If this were your own server, you could read the comments regarding
ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES in Defaults.py and decide whether you want to
do this which would allow authorizing once per session for all lists
with the site password. On a hosted server you probably don't have the
ability to edit mm_cfg.py and you probably don't have access to the
site password, so this is not an option.

Depending on your browser, you may be able to get it to remember the
password and enter/submit it for you.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From steve at laniels.org  Thu Oct 20 21:02:51 2005
From: steve at laniels.org (Stephen R Laniel)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:02:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman shuts down silently under FreeBSD
Message-ID: <20051020190251.GA15178@TheloniousMonk.laniels.org>

I'm running Mailman out of FreeBSD's 'ports' collection, and
for some reason qrunner shuts down silently every now and
again. Today, for instance, I created a mailing list through
the Mailman command-line interface, then tried to send that
list a test message. Nothing arrived at the subscribers'
mailboxes. Having noticed this behavior before, I restarted
qrunner via

/usr/local/etc/rc.d/mailman.sh start

It restarted, and the queue cleared; all the messages that
should have been delivered were delivered.

The machine hasn't restarted; 'uptime' on that end reads

 2:58PM  up 21 days, 12:43, 0 users, load averages: 1.98, 2.10, 1.99

So can anyone think of why qrunner would have shut down?

Thanks much,
Steve

-- 
Stephen R. Laniel
steve at laniels.org
+(617) 308-5571
http://laniels.org/
PGP key: http://laniels.org/slaniel.key
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From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 20 21:12:21 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:12:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman shuts down silently under FreeBSD
In-Reply-To: <20051020190251.GA15178@TheloniousMonk.laniels.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510201212210671055d22b4@msapiro>

Stephen R Laniel wrote:
>
>So can anyone think of why qrunner would have shut down?

Have you looked at the Mailman logs 'error' and 'qrunner'?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From steve at laniels.org  Thu Oct 20 21:20:53 2005
From: steve at laniels.org (Stephen R Laniel)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 15:20:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman shuts down silently under FreeBSD
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510201212210671055d22b4@msapiro>
References: <20051020190251.GA15178@TheloniousMonk.laniels.org>
	<PC1740200510201212210671055d22b4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20051020192053.GE15178@TheloniousMonk.laniels.org>

On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 12:12:21PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Have you looked at the Mailman logs 'error' and 'qrunner'?

Stupid me. I forgot to look at the qrunner log this time
'round, because the last time I had a mailman problem it
looked like the log wasn't getting any activity.

Anyway, see below for what the log says. Any idea?

Thanks for pointing me in the direction of something I
should have thought of. :-)

/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59829) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59828) ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59829) VirginRunner qrunner exiting.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59828) ArchRunner qrunner exiting.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59830) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59830) IncomingRunner qrunner exiting.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59831) BounceRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59831) BounceRunner qrunner exiting.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59832) CommandRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59832) CommandRunner qrunner exiting.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59833) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59833) NewsRunner qrunner exiting.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59834) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59834) OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59835) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59835) RetryRunner qrunner exiting.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59007) Master watcher caught SIGTERM.  Exiting.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59007) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59007) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59007) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59007) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59007) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59007) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59007) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59007) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 19 13:57:48 2005 (63166) ArchRunner qrunner started.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 19 13:57:48 2005 (63167) BounceRunner qrunner started.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 19 13:57:48 2005 (63170) NewsRunner qrunner started.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 19 13:57:48 2005 (63174) RetryRunner qrunner started.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 19 13:57:48 2005 (63169) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 19 13:57:48 2005 (63171) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 19 13:57:48 2005 (63172) VirginRunner qrunner started.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 19 13:57:48 2005 (63168) CommandRunner qrunner started.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:20:23 2005 (85507) CommandRunner qrunner started.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:20:23 2005 (85509) NewsRunner qrunner started.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:20:24 2005 (85505) ArchRunner qrunner started.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:20:24 2005 (85510) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:20:24 2005 (85506) BounceRunner qrunner started.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:20:24 2005 (85508) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:20:24 2005 (85511) VirginRunner qrunner started.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:20:24 2005 (85512) RetryRunner qrunner started.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63168) CommandRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63168) CommandRunner qrunner exiting.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63169) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63169) IncomingRunner qrunner exiting.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63170) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63170) NewsRunner qrunner exiting.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63171) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63171) OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63172) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63172) VirginRunner qrunner exiting.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63174) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63174) RetryRunner qrunner exiting.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63166) ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63166) ArchRunner qrunner exiting.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63167) BounceRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63167) BounceRunner qrunner exiting.

-- 
Stephen R. Laniel
steve at laniels.org
+(617) 308-5571
http://laniels.org/
PGP key: http://laniels.org/slaniel.key
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From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 20 22:19:56 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 13:19:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman shuts down silently under FreeBSD
In-Reply-To: <20051020192053.GE15178@TheloniousMonk.laniels.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510201319560437d5df6a6d@msapiro>

Stephen R Laniel wrote:
>
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59829) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59828) ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59829) VirginRunner qrunner exiting.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59828) ArchRunner qrunner exiting.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59830) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59830) IncomingRunner qrunner exiting.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59831) BounceRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59831) BounceRunner qrunner exiting.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59832) CommandRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59832) CommandRunner qrunner exiting.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59833) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59833) NewsRunner qrunner exiting.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59834) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59834) OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59835) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59835) RetryRunner qrunner exiting.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59007) Master watcher caught SIGTERM.  Exiting.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59007) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59007) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59007) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59007) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59007) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59007) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59007) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 17 16:44:27 2005 (59007) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit


This looks like a normal shut down as a result of 'bin/mailmanctl stop' 
or 'kill -TERM' of the master watcher process. Presumably, no one
knowingly did this, but is it possible the OS did it because of some
process limit?


>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 19 13:57:48 2005 (63166) ArchRunner qrunner started.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 19 13:57:48 2005 (63167) BounceRunner qrunner started.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 19 13:57:48 2005 (63170) NewsRunner qrunner started.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 19 13:57:48 2005 (63174) RetryRunner qrunner started.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 19 13:57:48 2005 (63169) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 19 13:57:48 2005 (63171) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 19 13:57:48 2005 (63172) VirginRunner qrunner started.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 19 13:57:48 2005 (63168) CommandRunner qrunner started.


Here it looks like a normal start.


>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:20:23 2005 (85507) CommandRunner qrunner started.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:20:23 2005 (85509) NewsRunner qrunner started.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:20:24 2005 (85505) ArchRunner qrunner started.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:20:24 2005 (85510) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:20:24 2005 (85506) BounceRunner qrunner started.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:20:24 2005 (85508) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:20:24 2005 (85511) VirginRunner qrunner started.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:20:24 2005 (85512) RetryRunner qrunner started.


Here it looks like a second start was done while the first set of
qrunners from Oct 19 13:57:48 2005 was still running. You mentioned in
your first post starting mailman with '/usr/local/etc/rc.d/mailman.sh
start'. This script probably does 'bin/mailmanctl -s start'. The '-s'
stale lock cleanup is appropriate for a system restart script, but not
for a running system. It is better to start mailman on a running
system with 'bin/mailmanctl start', at least for the first try.


>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63168) CommandRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63168) CommandRunner qrunner exiting.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63169) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63169) IncomingRunner qrunner exiting.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63170) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63170) NewsRunner qrunner exiting.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63171) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63171) OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63172) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63172) VirginRunner qrunner exiting.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63174) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63174) RetryRunner qrunner exiting.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63166) ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63166) ArchRunner qrunner exiting.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63167) BounceRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>/usr/local/mailman/logs/qrunner:Oct 20 13:57:34 2005 (63167) BounceRunner qrunner exiting.

And here the first of the two running sets of qrunners is stopped. Was
this done somehow manually?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From d4rkness at comcast.net  Thu Oct 20 23:25:42 2005
From: d4rkness at comcast.net (David)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 17:25:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archiving
Message-ID: <43580B56.7020004@comcast.net>

Im on a hosted server.  I am trying to decide if I want to archive my 
lists or not.  I don't seem to see any place that allows trimming the 
archives if they start taking up too much space or just get too many in 
general if I want to do it on weekly basis.  Is that option available 
some place? 

Thanks David



From quinnten at cheerful.com  Thu Oct 20 23:34:57 2005
From: quinnten at cheerful.com (quinnten at cheerful.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:34:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't stop the fun
Message-ID: <20051020213457.EDFA1CDA04@ws1-2a.us4.outblaze.com>

I wanted to subscribe members of one list to another.  I wanted to do so by INVITING them. I accidently SUBSCRIBED them instead of INVITE.  

But that's not the problem. I subscribed 11,000 members. YESTERDAY. 

They are still being subscribed.  

I deleted the mailing list.

Yet, they are still being subscribed.  


I cannot invite members to a new mailing list (same domain) ....

I imagine, becuase these other people are still being subscribed.  

HELP!!

Q



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 20 23:50:33 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 14:50:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't stop the fun
In-Reply-To: <20051020213457.EDFA1CDA04@ws1-2a.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510201450330500c0284175@msapiro>

quinnten at cheerful.com wrote:

>I wanted to subscribe members of one list to another.  I wanted to do so by INVITING them. I accidently SUBSCRIBED them instead of INVITE.  
>
>But that's not the problem. I subscribed 11,000 members. YESTERDAY. 
>
>They are still being subscribed.  
>
>I deleted the mailing list.
>
>Yet, they are still being subscribed.  


They were probably all subscribed yesterday. What is probably ongoing
now is the mailing of the subscription notification notices. Some of
these have been delivered, some may still be in Mailman's qfiles/out
queue waiting to be delivered to the outgoing MTA and some may be
queued in the MTA.

If you control the mailman installation, you can stop Mailman and look
at the out queue and possibly delete (some of?) the entries there. You
can also look at Mailman's smtp log to see what's been delivered to
the MTA.

>I cannot invite members to a new mailing list (same domain) ....


Are you saying that you created a new list sucessfully and mass invited
people and you got an error or just that the invitations aren't sent
(yet). If the latter, it's probably because your outgoing MTA is
overloaded.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk  Fri Oct 21 00:35:21 2005
From: mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk (Mark.A.Lombardo)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 23:35:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAKxlrnk2VBJEmDbDsFiTT8LCgAAAEAAAAH/pApxSbfBMka7FuxjywDwBAAAAAA==@olney-scout-group.org.uk>

Please can you help; currently I am using the software that is supplied by
my web HOSTing company free virtual servers or easyinternetsoultions. I
would like to know how if I have set a mailing list that, the replies only
come to the person who sent the email rather than the entire list, is this
possible?

 

Kind Regards

 

 

Mark

 



From john at wa9als.com  Fri Oct 21 03:07:13 2005
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 20:07:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAKxlrnk2VBJEmDbDsFiTT8LCgAAAEAAAAH/pApxSbfBMka7FuxjywDwBAAAAAA==@olney-scout-group.org.uk>
Message-ID: <001f01c5d5db$ccde1df0$0100a8c0@wa9als>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark.A.Lombardo" <mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 5:35 PM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help


> Please can you help; currently I am using the software that is supplied by
> my web HOSTing company free virtual servers or easyinternetsoultions. I
> would like to know how if I have set a mailing list that, the replies only
> come to the person who sent the email rather than the entire list, is this
> possible?

Yes, the web interface has an option to select where the replies go - to the 
poster or to the list.

John



From d4rkness at comcast.net  Fri Oct 21 04:19:34 2005
From: d4rkness at comcast.net (David)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 22:19:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Who can view subscription list?
Message-ID: <43585036.4080105@comcast.net>

I have this checked as admin only but it showing to anyone whos  
subscribed?  Any thoughts on this?

David


From qmailb0y at yahoo.com  Fri Oct 21 04:35:11 2005
From: qmailb0y at yahoo.com (jay alvarez)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:35:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] some lists cannot receive emails after a
	crash(Incorrect padding)
Message-ID: <20051021023511.96517.qmail@web34011.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Good day!

We just had a hardware failure with our mailserver
running mailman+qmail, the smtpd as well as mailman
daemons died because of hard disc space lost due to
some logs overgrowned that were not rotated. The
problem has already been fixed and the qmail daemons
as well as mailman have been restarted, however, some
mailing list cannot receive emails. Looking at smtpd
logs, it seems like the client can successfully
deliver emails to the mailserver but the mailman
couldn't distribute it properly to list members.
What's more suprising is that other lists can receive
emails, but few can't.

Below is the series of mailman error logs continuesly
appearing from time to time during the normal
operation, but I don't think it has something to do
with the root of the problem. Hope you can help me..
Thanks.



   Oct 21 10:23:09 2005 (19519) SHUNTING:
1118201593.7484629+ca85708cae103ebea5e28102d9aecb0ae1991f3f
Oct 21 10:23:49 2005 (19519) Uncaught runner
exception: Incorrect padding
Oct 21 10:23:49 2005 (19519) Traceback (most recent
call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py",
line 105, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py",
line 155, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py",
line 130, in _dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata,
pipeline)
  File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py",
line 153, in _dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py",
line 82, in process
    send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py",
line 123, in send_digests
    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py",
line 303, in send_i18n_digests
    print >> plainmsg, msg.get_payload(decode=1)
  File
"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line
189, in get_payload
    return Utils._bdecode(payload)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py",
line 75, in _bdecode
    value = base64.decodestring(s)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.1/base64.py", line 44, in
decodestring
    return binascii.a2b_base64(s)
Error: Incorrect padding

Oct 21 10:23:49 2005 (19519) SHUNTING:
1118204475.9834571+22369a18d9473e03619ce8224a5e274504872f9a



		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com


From jwblist at olympus.net  Fri Oct 21 04:48:22 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 19:48:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Who can view subscription list?
In-Reply-To: <43585036.4080105@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BF7DA506.8A85%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 10/20/05 7:19 PM, "David" <d4rkness at comcast.net> wrote:

> I have this checked as admin only but it showing to anyone whos
> subscribed?  Any thoughts on this?

Try with a different web browser (or after restart your browser, or you use
the Logout command).  Start the test sequence with a different browser, as
that is the most like an ordinary user.

I suspect you were simply using a browser which still "knew" (session
cookie) that it had logged in as administrator.

  --John




From d4rkness at comcast.net  Fri Oct 21 05:00:22 2005
From: d4rkness at comcast.net (David)
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 23:00:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Who can view subscription list?
In-Reply-To: <BF7DA506.8A85%jwblist@olympus.net>
References: <BF7DA506.8A85%jwblist@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <435859C6.6040502@comcast.net>

Seems my other post explains it.  Email has nothing to do with it but 
the admin password does.  You can put anything you want or nothing into 
the email box but putting the admin password lets you see.  I was using 
test email with same password so it let me in.  So in other words the 
box for the email address isnt even needed.

John W. Baxter wrote:
> On 10/20/05 7:19 PM, "David" <d4rkness at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>   
>> I have this checked as admin only but it showing to anyone whos
>> subscribed?  Any thoughts on this?
>>     
>
> Try with a different web browser (or after restart your browser, or you use
> the Logout command).  Start the test sequence with a different browser, as
> that is the most like an ordinary user.
>
> I suspect you were simply using a browser which still "knew" (session
> cookie) that it had logged in as administrator.
>
>   --John
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/d4rkness%40comcast.net
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>
>
>   

-- 
No Smoking Forum - Http://www.nicodemon.info/community
Lansing Forum - Http://www.greater-lansing.com/community

He's Not My President!!!
Blue States Rock~

The truth is not that comfortable....no - Moby~



From javier at webaltair.com  Fri Oct 21 10:29:49 2005
From: javier at webaltair.com (Javier   ---   Altair)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:29:49 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Please, help me
Message-ID: <3285.62.14.144.204.1129883389.squirrel@mail.webaltair.com>



Hello.

Excuse me for my English

Please, Could you help me? Our mailing list is crashed.  
http:\\list.webaltair.com   ---  perico   ---   password: perico

We make a list, we recived the welcome mail, but when we send a mail to
the list, we recived this mail inmediatly:


This is the Postfix program at host llwb403.servidoresdns.net.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that the message returned
below could not be delivered to one or more destinations.

For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster>

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the message returned below.

			The Postfix program

<webaltair.com.perico at llwb403.servidoresdns.net>: Command died with status 2:
    "/var/mailman/mail/mailman post webaltair.com.perico". Command output:
    Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 99, GOT gid 200.  (Reconfigure to take
    200?)


Reporting-MTA: dns; llwb403.servidoresdns.net
Arrival-Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:59:28 +0200 (CEST)

Final-Recipient: rfc822; webaltair.com.perico at llwb403.servidoresdns.net
Action: failed
Status: 5.0.0
Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; Command died with status 2:
    "/var/mailman/mail/mailman post webaltair.com.perico". Command output:
    Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 99, GOT gid 200.  (Reconfigure to take
    200?)


Thank you very much

Javier Peix






From saulius at azuolas.org  Fri Oct 21 10:32:41 2005
From: saulius at azuolas.org (Saulius)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:32:41 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments are not scrubbed
Message-ID: <4358A7A9.8090508@azuolas.org>

Hello,

yesterday I upgraded mailman to 2.1.5 version and noticed that 
attachment no more were scrubbed (in non-digest emails) although in 
previous version they were scrubbed. Is the a bug or where should I 
'switch on' that attachments were srubbed automaticaly (i.e. attachment 
would be in some place and message contain link to it)?

By,
Saulius


From szkola at tanis.cso.niu.edu  Fri Oct 21 15:35:38 2005
From: szkola at tanis.cso.niu.edu (Dan Szkola)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 08:35:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange errors
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005101918055209535b71a4ed@msapiro>
References: <PC17402005101918055209535b71a4ed@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4358EEAA.5080401@tanis.cso.niu.edu>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Dan Szkola wrote:
>  
>
>>The python 2.4.1 was compiled from source and is the only python version 
>>on the box.
>>    
>>
>
>In a later post, you say it wasn't, but you removed the Sun Gnome
>Python 2.3. I hope that fixes it, but I doubt it will.
>  
>
It did not. It was doubtful mailman could find that python, due to it 
being in
/usr/sfw, but one never knows for sure.

>Here's something else to try if it fails again. As the mailman user in
>the /usr/local/mailman directory, give the command
>
>python2.4 -S /usr/local/mailman/scripts/admin listname <file
>
>Except for the fact that this doesn't edit the environment passed to
>the script, it is the same as invoking the script from the wrapper. If
>it works, it will produce an 'unrecognized bounce' which will be
>forwarded to the list owner if the option to do so is selected. If it
>doesn't work, it will produce a similar output to the above, but the
>key is that if it doesn't work, we'll know that the problem, even
>though fixed by restarting sendmail and not by restarting Mailman,
>occurs even though sendmail doesn't directly invoke the script via the
>wrapper. If it does work, we'll know that it involves the script being
>invoked through the wrapper.
>
>  
>
It did work, 5 straight times I got the normal "Uncaught bounce 
notification" message.

>You could then try
>
>/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin listname <file
>
>to see if it occurs when you rather than sendmail invoke the wrapper,
>but this has to be done from the group that sendmail uses, i.e., the
>group that the wrapper expects to be invoked by. Otherwise, the
>wrapper will complain because this is exactly the security violation
>the wrapper is supposed to catch.
>
>  
>
Same here, works every time, sending the "Uncaught bounce notification" 
message.

Only seems to happen when run by the sendmail process.

--
Dan Szkola
Sr Unix Systems Programmer
Northern Illinois University



From szkola at tanis.cso.niu.edu  Fri Oct 21 16:31:38 2005
From: szkola at tanis.cso.niu.edu (Dan Szkola)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 09:31:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange errors
In-Reply-To: <4358EEAA.5080401@tanis.cso.niu.edu>
References: <PC17402005101918055209535b71a4ed@msapiro>
	<4358EEAA.5080401@tanis.cso.niu.edu>
Message-ID: <4358FBCA.9000008@tanis.cso.niu.edu>

OK, I found something extremely odd. For some reason,
the Utils.pyc in /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging
direcotry is being removed and then the compile of it
seems to fail and I'm left with a 0 byte file. It is
owned by the daemon user and later it gets compiled
and is owned by the mailman user.

# ls -l
total 60
-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman     3380 May 31 08:39 Logger.py
-rw-r--r--   1 www      mailman     3175 May 31 08:43 Logger.pyc
-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman     2559 May 31 08:39 MultiLogger.py
-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman     2133 May 31 08:43 MultiLogger.pyc
-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman     3204 May 31 08:39 StampedLogger.py
-rw-r--r--   1 www      mailman     2933 May 31 08:43 StampedLogger.pyc
-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman     2221 May 31 08:39 Syslog.py
-rw-r--r--   1 www      mailman     1709 May 31 08:43 Syslog.pyc
-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman     1912 May 31 08:39 Utils.py
-rw-r--r--   1 daemon   mailman        0 Oct 21 09:27 Utils.pyc
-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman      785 May 31 08:39 __init__.py
-rw-r--r--   1 www      mailman      126 May 31 08:43 __init__.pyc

# ls -l
total 64
-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman     3380 May 31 08:39 Logger.py
-rw-r--r--   1 www      mailman     3175 May 31 08:43 Logger.pyc
-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman     2559 May 31 08:39 MultiLogger.py
-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman     2133 May 31 08:43 MultiLogger.pyc
-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman     3204 May 31 08:39 StampedLogger.py
-rw-r--r--   1 www      mailman     2933 May 31 08:43 StampedLogger.pyc
-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman     2221 May 31 08:39 Syslog.py
-rw-r--r--   1 www      mailman     1709 May 31 08:43 Syslog.pyc
-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman     1912 May 31 08:39 Utils.py
-rw-r--r--   1 mailman  mailman     1308 Oct 21 09:30 Utils.pyc
-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman      785 May 31 08:39 __init__.py
-rw-r--r--   1 www      mailman      126 May 31 08:43 __init__.pyc

--
Dan Szkola
Sr Unix Systems Programmer
NOrthern Illinois University


From mylists2004 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 21 17:55:10 2005
From: mylists2004 at gmail.com (James)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 08:55:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to make one-way list?
Message-ID: <4b2a6ddc0510210855sfadb6bcgc432cd05795153c8@mail.gmail.com>

I need to create one-way list. Like an annoucement list that allows only one
email address to post to the 300-member list. Is this possible?


From labs at ixopusada.com  Fri Oct 21 18:06:17 2005
From: labs at ixopusada.com (Dirk van Oosterbosch, IR labs)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:06:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Troubleshooting install: dealing with
	10.0.0.n(local server address) [BYPASSED]
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510062054260125799beeb7@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200510062054260125799beeb7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <aedaa4bef5307a2af10573bd20addc2c@ixopusada.com>

Hi,

I tried a few server configurations, using VIRTUAL_HOSTS_OVERVIEW = Off 
AND without that line, but indeed Mailman treats lists created under 
10.0.0.3 as seperate from http://mysubdomain.ourdomain.com. It can't 
figure out from just the requested url, from which network this web 
request is coming (my local network or the rest of the world).
So that doesn't help me when I want to configure -using the 
webinterface- the lists which I host from my machine.

Fortunately for me my isp has a server which I can login to using ssh. 
And now I using that route and links (the command line text browser) 
instead of my normal browser on my local machine.
localhost -> ssh to remote.server.net -> links 
http://mysubdomain.ourdomain.com/mailman/admin

And that solution works just fine for me. Thought of sharing that with 
you lot.
best,
d



On 7-okt-05, at 05:54, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Dirk van Oosterbosch, IR labs wrote:
>>
>> However when I want to access my server from my local network, I have
>> to go to http://10.0.0.n/ because my router would not understand
>> http://mysubdomain.ourdomain.com.
...
>> http://10.0.0.n/mailman/admin returns a
>> page and also http://10.0.0.n/mailman/create shows the returns the
>> right page, but all the links on those pages refer to
>> mysubdomain.ourdomain.com instead of 10.0.0.n.
...
>>
>> Is there anyway I can keep these default email and url hosts and still
>> have those web interface pages respond correctly browsing them through
>> 10.0.0.n?
>
> You will need to modify source to make everything work.
>
> I am guessing you have VIRTUAL_HOSTS_OVERVIEW = Off or No in mm_cfg.py
> although you don't mention it above. This enables several things which
> will cease working if you remove this or set it On.
>
> Among the things which won't work are:
>
> http://10.0.0.n/mailman/admin and http://10.0.0.n/mailman/listinfo will
> not show any lists unless you "add_virtual_host('10.0.0.n',
> '10.0.0.n')" and then it will show those lists created in the 10.0.0.n
> domain, but these in turn will not show on the
> http://mysubdomain.ourdomain.com/mailman/admin and
> http://mysubdomain.ourdomain.com/mailman/listinfo pages.
>
> You also won't be able to create lists from the
> http://10.0.0.n/mailman/create page unless you
> "add_virtual_host('10.0.0.n', '10.0.0.n')" and then those list will be
> created in the 10.0.0.n domain.
>
> However, I think if you do remove VIRTUAL_HOSTS_OVERVIEW from
> mm_cfg.py, then the links in the admin interface will reflect the host
> domain in the invoking URL.
>
> Of course, if you don't have VIRTUAL_HOSTS_OVERVIEW = Off or No in
> mm_cfg.py (and haven't changed it in Defaults.py which you should
> never do), then I don't know what I'm talking about and you can ignore
> this post.
>


-----------------------------
Dirk van Oosterbosch
de Wittenstraat 225
1052 AT Amsterdam
the Netherlands

W http://labs.ixopusada.com
-----------------------------




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 21 18:10:40 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 09:10:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] some lists cannot receive emails after
	acrash(Incorrect padding)
In-Reply-To: <20051021023511.96517.qmail@web34011.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020051021091040092188429841@msapiro>

jay alvarez wrote:
>
>We just had a hardware failure with our mailserver
>running mailman+qmail, the smtpd as well as mailman
>daemons died because of hard disc space lost due to
>some logs overgrowned that were not rotated. The
>problem has already been fixed and the qmail daemons
>as well as mailman have been restarted, however, some
>mailing list cannot receive emails. Looking at smtpd
>logs, it seems like the client can successfully
>deliver emails to the mailserver but the mailman
>couldn't distribute it properly to list members.
>What's more suprising is that other lists can receive
>emails, but few can't.
>
>Below is the series of mailman error logs continuesly
>appearing from time to time during the normal
>operation, but I don't think it has something to do
>with the root of the problem. Hope you can help me..
>Thanks.
>
>
>
>   Oct 21 10:23:09 2005 (19519) SHUNTING:
>1118201593.7484629+ca85708cae103ebea5e28102d9aecb0ae1991f3f
>Oct 21 10:23:49 2005 (19519) Uncaught runner
>exception: Incorrect padding
>Oct 21 10:23:49 2005 (19519) Traceback (most recent
>call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py",
>line 105, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py",
>line 155, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File
>"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py",
>line 130, in _dispose
>    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata,
>pipeline)
>  File
>"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py",
>line 153, in _dopipeline
>    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File
>"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py",
>line 82, in process
>    send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>  File
>"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py",
>line 123, in send_digests
>    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>  File
>"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py",
>line 303, in send_i18n_digests
>    print >> plainmsg, msg.get_payload(decode=1)
>  File
>"/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line
>189, in get_payload
>    return Utils._bdecode(payload)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py",
>line 75, in _bdecode
>    value = base64.decodestring(s)
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.1/base64.py", line 44, in
>decodestring
>    return binascii.a2b_base64(s)
>Error: Incorrect padding
>
>Oct 21 10:23:49 2005 (19519) SHUNTING:
>1118204475.9834571+22369a18d9473e03619ce8224a5e274504872f9a

I think the offending list/lists has/have a corrupt digest.mbox file
that was being written when the system crashed. Either that or a bad
message has gotten into the file.

Look at lists/<list_name>/digest.mbox. The last message is probably
truncated. If you move it aside and then run bin/unshunt to reprocess
the messages in the shunt queue, things will probably get going
normally again, but the initial messages in the old digest.mbox will
be missing from the next digest. If this is important, you could try
to edit digest.mbox and remove the offending message instead of moving
the file aside.

If this is not the problem with the lists not processing, it may be
that they are locked. Look in Mailman's locks/ directory and manually
remove the old lock files.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 21 18:16:47 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 09:16:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Please, help me
In-Reply-To: <3285.62.14.144.204.1129883389.squirrel@mail.webaltair.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020051021091647023488429599@msapiro>

Javier   ---   Altairwrote:

>    Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 99, GOT gid 200.  (Reconfigure to take
>    200?)


http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.004.htp,
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.001.htp and
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 21 18:22:27 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 09:22:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to make one-way list?
In-Reply-To: <4b2a6ddc0510210855sfadb6bcgc432cd05795153c8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510210922270906e53871c5@msapiro>

James wrote

>I need to create one-way list. Like an annoucement list that allows only one
>email address to post to the 300-member list. Is this possible?

Yes.

Search the FAQ wizard
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

either one-way or announcement will return the detailed answer.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 21 18:39:01 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 09:39:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments are not scrubbed
In-Reply-To: <4358A7A9.8090508@azuolas.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402005102109390101099ee40aee@msapiro>

Saulius wrote:
>
>yesterday I upgraded mailman to 2.1.5 version and noticed that 
>attachment no more were scrubbed (in non-digest emails) although in 
>previous version they were scrubbed. Is the a bug or where should I 
>'switch on' that attachments were srubbed automaticaly (i.e. attachment 
>would be in some place and message contain link to it)?


In Mailman 2.1.6, there is an option to scrub attachments from
individual messages (non-digest emails). Prior to that, attachments
were only scrubbed from archives and plain text format digests. Are
you sure you didn't downgrade to 2.1.5?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 21 18:41:07 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 09:41:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archiving
In-Reply-To: <43580B56.7020004@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC174020051021094107093788429830@msapiro>

David wrote:

>Im on a hosted server.  I am trying to decide if I want to archive my 
>lists or not.  I don't seem to see any place that allows trimming the 
>archives if they start taking up too much space or just get too many in 
>general if I want to do it on weekly basis.  Is that option available 
>some place? 

There is no option within Mailman to prune old messages from the
archives.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From chris at westnet.com  Fri Oct 21 18:49:41 2005
From: chris at westnet.com (Christopher X. Candreva)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:49:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archiving
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051021094107093788429830@msapiro>
References: <PC174020051021094107093788429830@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.62.0510211248510.29247@westnet.com>

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> >lists or not.  I don't seem to see any place that allows trimming the 
> >archives if they start taking up too much space or just get too many in 
> >general if I want to do it on weekly basis.  Is that option available 
> >some place? 
> 
> There is no option within Mailman to prune old messages from the
> archives.

If the archive file is just an mbox file, you should be able to use any mail 
program that uses mbox format to remove messages -- mail, elm, pine, etc.

Then regenerate the web archive.

-Chris

==========================================================
Chris Candreva  -- chris at westnet.com -- (914) 967-7816
WestNet Internet Services of Westchester
http://www.westnet.com/


From steve at marmot.org  Fri Oct 21 19:09:48 2005
From: steve at marmot.org (Steve Lindemann)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 11:09:48 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] old files in the shunt queue directory
Message-ID: <435920DC.9070908@marmot.org>

Courtesy of this list I latched onto the Mailman daily status report 
script.  Consequently I'm now aware of something I wasn't before...

I have 85 files in the shunt queue directory, most dated from 2 thru 4 
May and a pair dated 25 Aug.  They are all data files, so I can't simply 
'more' thru them for content.  The few I checked with 'strings' (and the 
old dates) lead me to believe they can all be trashed.

~~~~~~~~~
QUESTION:
Is it safe to simply delete files from ../mailman/qfiles/shunt?
~~~~~~~~~

I have tried to find out for myself about what shunt is and what I can 
do with the directory, but there isn't much info available.  All I could 
find was to run ../bin/unshunt to handle the files.  But I don't want 
them handled, I want them gone.

Help!
--
Steve Lindemann
Network Administrator
Marmot Library Network, Inc.
   url: http://www.marmot.org
email: mailto:steve at marmot.org
voice: +1.970.242.3331 ext 16
   fax: +1.970.245.7854
/"\
\ /  ASCII Ribbon Campaign
  X   against HTML email, vCards
/ \  & micro$oft attachments




From awaco at free.fr  Fri Oct 21 19:33:18 2005
From: awaco at free.fr (antoine)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:33:18 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] to install MAILMAN at a provider
Message-ID: <200510211933.18521.awaco@free.fr>

Hallo,

I have a account at a provider (1 &1) (space on their Server)
with Python implemented and actived.
Is it possible to install Mailman ?

thanks !

antoine


From d4rkness at comcast.net  Fri Oct 21 19:33:22 2005
From: d4rkness at comcast.net (David)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:33:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archiving
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051021094107093788429830@msapiro>
References: <PC174020051021094107093788429830@msapiro>
Message-ID: <43592662.2070708@comcast.net>

Ok Thanks I was just finding this out in the FAQ (Who ever checks these 
things....Sorry) and the List Home Page.  How ever I see it is on the 
wish list for 2.2 or 3.0 or some future release so I think I am just 
gonna go ahead archive as the list is new on a new site and by the time 
the archives get unruly that option should be available and I should be 
fine.  Thanks again!!

 Thanks David

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> David wrote:
>
>   
>> Im on a hosted server.  I am trying to decide if I want to archive my 
>> lists or not.  I don't seem to see any place that allows trimming the 
>> archives if they start taking up too much space or just get too many in 
>> general if I want to do it on weekly basis.  Is that option available 
>> some place? 
>>     
>
> There is no option within Mailman to prune old messages from the
> archives.
>
>   

-- 
No Smoking Forum - Http://www.nicodemon.info/community
Lansing Forum - Http://www.greater-lansing.com/community

He's Not My President!!!
Blue States Rock~





From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 21 19:36:00 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:36:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Who can view subscription list?
In-Reply-To: <435859C6.6040502@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402005102110360000003e0e42e0@msapiro>

David wrote:

>Seems my other post explains it.  Email has nothing to do with it but 
>the admin password does.  You can put anything you want or nothing into 
>the email box but putting the admin password lets you see.  I was using 
>test email with same password so it let me in.  So in other words the 
>box for the email address isnt even needed.


I have created a FAQ at
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.060.htp
to help clarify this issue. Suggestions/improvements welcome.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jdennis at redhat.com  Fri Oct 21 19:36:38 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:36:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] to install MAILMAN at a provider
In-Reply-To: <200510211933.18521.awaco@free.fr>
References: <200510211933.18521.awaco@free.fr>
Message-ID: <1129916199.14598.106.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, 2005-10-21 at 19:33 +0200, antoine wrote:
> Hallo,
> 
> I have a account at a provider (1 &1) (space on their Server)
> with Python implemented and actived.
> Is it possible to install Mailman ?

No. Mailman requires integration with other system services (MTA, httpd,
cron) that you almost certainly would not have access to.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 21 19:45:16 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:45:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] old files in the shunt queue directory
In-Reply-To: <435920DC.9070908@marmot.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402005102110451602963e0e4418@msapiro>

Steve Lindemann wrote:
>
>I have 85 files in the shunt queue directory, most dated from 2 thru 4 
>May and a pair dated 25 Aug.  They are all data files, so I can't simply 
>'more' thru them for content.  The few I checked with 'strings' (and the 
>old dates) lead me to believe they can all be trashed.


bin/show_qfiles qfiles/shunt/* | more


>~~~~~~~~~
>QUESTION:
>Is it safe to simply delete files from ../mailman/qfiles/shunt?
>~~~~~~~~~


Yes


>I have tried to find out for myself about what shunt is and what I can 
>do with the directory, but there isn't much info available.  All I could 
>find was to run ../bin/unshunt to handle the files.  But I don't want 
>them handled, I want them gone.


If you still have Mailman's error log covering those dates, you should
find a detailed entry for each of the 85 errors that caused those 85
messages to be shunted.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From m.kachel at gmx.de  Fri Oct 21 19:50:35 2005
From: m.kachel at gmx.de (Markus Kachel)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 19:50:35 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] to install MAILMAN at a provider
In-Reply-To: <200510211933.18521.awaco@free.fr>
References: <200510211933.18521.awaco@free.fr>
Message-ID: <116724349.20051021195035@muenster.de>

Hello antoine,

On Friday, October 21, 2005, antoine

> I have a account at a provider (1 &1) (space on their Server)
> with Python implemented and actived.
> Is it possible to install Mailman ?

No, because 1&1 has their mail system running on different servers so you
cannot get your mails to the mailman installation. To run mailman you will
need a root server.

Bye
Markus

-- 
E-Mail:   m.kachel at gmx.de
Homepage: http://www.kachelonline.de



From ren at trubble.com  Fri Oct 21 20:23:35 2005
From: ren at trubble.com (Ren Bucholz)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:23:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members and email confirmation
Message-ID: <e745f29381aa41396576826d6a6af8ba@trubble.com>

Hello,

I have a signup sheet that subscribes people to a Mailman list by using 
PHP to call add_members (the PHP is below, FYI).  My problem is that 
add_members seems to ignore the email confirmation settings from the 
admin interface.  Even though my list is configured to send a 
confirmation message, subscribers only get the "Thanks for signing up!" 
email.

Does anyone know of a way to use add_members in a confirmed-opt-in 
list?  Thanks very much!

-Ren



=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

<h2>Subscription Results</h2>

<?php

// The path to your add_members program here:
$ADD_MEMBERS = '/your/path/to/add_members';

// The name of your mailing list:
$LIST = 'FakeList';

// The email address from the form, run through a process
// that removes nasty scripting attacks
$adrs = escapeshellcmd($_GET['email']);

// Runs the pipeline and stores the output in an array
exec("echo $adrs | $ADD_MEMBERS -r - $LIST", $output, $return_var);

// Implodes the array into a string
$msg = implode('', $output);

// Search for 'Subscribed' in $msg. Then we know if it worked or not.

if (strpos($msg, 'Subscribed') === FALSE) {
   print "Crap!  Something went wrong and you were not subscribed.";
} else {
   print "It worked!";
     }

?>



From jdennis at redhat.com  Fri Oct 21 20:41:15 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:41:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members and email confirmation
In-Reply-To: <e745f29381aa41396576826d6a6af8ba@trubble.com>
References: <e745f29381aa41396576826d6a6af8ba@trubble.com>
Message-ID: <1129920075.14598.118.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Fri, 2005-10-21 at 14:23 -0400, Ren Bucholz wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I have a signup sheet that subscribes people to a Mailman list by using 
> PHP to call add_members (the PHP is below, FYI).  My problem is that 
> add_members seems to ignore the email confirmation settings from the 
> admin interface.  Even though my list is configured to send a 
> confirmation message, subscribers only get the "Thanks for signing up!" 
> email.
> 
> Does anyone know of a way to use add_members in a confirmed-opt-in 
> list?  Thanks very much!

Not is its current manifestation. The reason is that manual adding of
members assumes this is an approved action. You have two choices:

1) redirect them to the signup page for the list (this has the advantage
of allowing the user to set some preferences and see some basic info).

2) Copy the add_members script to a new name and edit it so that it
calls AddMember instead of AddApprovedMember. See
Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py for an example of how to do this and the
various exceptions you'll have to catch and handle.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 21 21:47:36 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 12:47:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange errors
In-Reply-To: <4358FBCA.9000008@tanis.cso.niu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC174020051021124736000053875f44@msapiro>

Dan Szkola wrote:

>OK, I found something extremely odd. For some reason,
>the Utils.pyc in /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging
>direcotry is being removed and then the compile of it
>seems to fail and I'm left with a 0 byte file. It is
>owned by the daemon user and later it gets compiled
>and is owned by the mailman user.
>
># ls -l
>total 60
>-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman     3380 May 31 08:39 Logger.py
>-rw-r--r--   1 www      mailman     3175 May 31 08:43 Logger.pyc
>-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman     2559 May 31 08:39 MultiLogger.py
>-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman     2133 May 31 08:43 MultiLogger.pyc
>-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman     3204 May 31 08:39 StampedLogger.py
>-rw-r--r--   1 www      mailman     2933 May 31 08:43 StampedLogger.pyc
>-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman     2221 May 31 08:39 Syslog.py
>-rw-r--r--   1 www      mailman     1709 May 31 08:43 Syslog.pyc
>-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman     1912 May 31 08:39 Utils.py
>-rw-r--r--   1 daemon   mailman        0 Oct 21 09:27 Utils.pyc
>-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman      785 May 31 08:39 __init__.py
>-rw-r--r--   1 www      mailman      126 May 31 08:43 __init__.pyc
>
># ls -l
>total 64
>-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman     3380 May 31 08:39 Logger.py
>-rw-r--r--   1 www      mailman     3175 May 31 08:43 Logger.pyc
>-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman     2559 May 31 08:39 MultiLogger.py
>-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman     2133 May 31 08:43 MultiLogger.pyc
>-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman     3204 May 31 08:39 StampedLogger.py
>-rw-r--r--   1 www      mailman     2933 May 31 08:43 StampedLogger.pyc
>-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman     2221 May 31 08:39 Syslog.py
>-rw-r--r--   1 www      mailman     1709 May 31 08:43 Syslog.pyc
>-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman     1912 May 31 08:39 Utils.py
>-rw-r--r--   1 mailman  mailman     1308 Oct 21 09:30 Utils.pyc
>-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman      785 May 31 08:39 __init__.py
>-rw-r--r--   1 www      mailman      126 May 31 08:43 __init__.pyc

Presumably daemon is the user that sendmail uses to invoke the wrapper.
When you tried invoking the wrapper manually and did not get the
error, were you running it as the daemon user? If not, you might try
that.

The recompiling is strange in itself. Normally, if the .pyc is more
recent than the .py, accessible and not corrupt, it is just used, so
once you have a good one, why is python trying to recompile it? And if
Python is recompiling this module when invoked in the 'odd' way, is it
also doing others, and why does this cause a problem (if it is a
cause)?

Do any other Mailman .pyc files have way more recent dates than the
corresponding .py, or are any others owned by 'daemon'?

Maybe next time try something like

find /usr/local/mailman -type f -a \( -mtime 0 -o -user daemon \)

Also, try running the

/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin listname <file

as user daemon and the appropriate group if you haven't already.

I really don't understand what's happening since sendmail should always
be invoking the wrapper with the same user:group and that works at
first.

In order to even more closely mimic sendmail, you could try

cat file | /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin listname

instead of the above. Beyond that, the only difference I can see is the
environment, but we say previously, after the wrapper got done with
the environment, all that was there was

PYTHONPATH /usr/local/mailman
AGENT sendmail

and PYTHONPATH is always put there by the wrapper and presumably AGENT
is always put there by sendmail.

So, why does it only seem to fail when sendmail invokes it and only
after some successful invocations, and why does restarting sendmail
fix it while restarting Mailman (which will recompile
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.py) doesn't fix it?

Maybe we need to take this to comp.lang.python.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From saulius at azuolas.org  Fri Oct 21 22:12:03 2005
From: saulius at azuolas.org (saulius at azuolas.org)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 23:12:03 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments are not scrubbed
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005102109390101099ee40aee@msapiro>
References: <PC17402005102109390101099ee40aee@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20051021231203.ja5q0uc84pj4wwko@webmail.azuolas.org>

Hello,

> In Mailman 2.1.6, there is an option to scrub attachments from
> individual messages (non-digest emails). Prior to that, attachments
> were only scrubbed from archives and plain text format digests. Are
> you sure you didn't downgrade to 2.1.5?

No. Previous version was 2.1.4. And new version (2.1.5) I installed via deb
(Debian package). In 2.1.4 attachments were scrubbed in simple non-digest
format (there was one bug with encoding). But after I upgraded it to 2.1.5,
attachments were not scrubbed any more (but scrubber still works in archives).
Hm, is there any posibility to turn it on (maybe in code) - until there 
will be
2.1.6 in Debian packages.

Bye,
Saulius

----------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.



From szkola at tanis.cso.niu.edu  Fri Oct 21 22:40:12 2005
From: szkola at tanis.cso.niu.edu (Dan Szkola)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:40:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange errors
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051021124736000053875f44@msapiro>
References: <PC174020051021124736000053875f44@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4359522C.6090507@tanis.cso.niu.edu>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Dan Szkola wrote:
> 
> 
>>OK, I found something extremely odd. For some reason,
>>the Utils.pyc in /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging
>>direcotry is being removed and then the compile of it
>>seems to fail and I'm left with a 0 byte file. It is
>>owned by the daemon user and later it gets compiled
>>and is owned by the mailman user.

> Presumably daemon is the user that sendmail uses to invoke the wrapper.
> When you tried invoking the wrapper manually and did not get the
> error, were you running it as the daemon user? If not, you might try
> that.

Did that, same thing:

$ id
uid=1(daemon) gid=1(other)
$ /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin esstest </var/tmp/testmessage
HZ
TERM vt100
SHELL /usr/bin/sh
TZ US/Central
PYTHONPATH /usr/local/mailman
LOGNAME daemon
MAIL /var/mail/daemon
HOME /
before = /usr/local/mailman/scripts
before = /usr/local/mailman
before = /usr/local/lib/python24.zip
before = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/
before = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/plat-sunos5
before = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-tk
before = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload
after = /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib
after = /usr/local/mailman
after = /usr/local/mailman/scripts
after = /usr/local/mailman
after = /usr/local/lib/python24.zip
after = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/
after = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/plat-sunos5
after = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-tk
after = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload
after = /usr/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages



> The recompiling is strange in itself. Normally, if the .pyc is more
> recent than the .py, accessible and not corrupt, it is just used, so
> once you have a good one, why is python trying to recompile it? And if
> Python is recompiling this module when invoked in the 'odd' way, is it
> also doing others, and why does this cause a problem (if it is a
> cause)?

Very odd, I agree. A truss of the persistent queue runner that handled
one of the test mails shows this (12762 is the pid that mailman gets
when sendmail exec's it):

  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.so", 
O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utilsmodule.so", 
O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.py", 
O_RDONLY) = 66
  12762:  fstat64(66, 0xFFBF8928)                         = 0
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.pyc", 
O_RDONLY) = 256
  12762:  close(256)                                      = 0
  12762:  fstat64(66, 0xFFBF83C8)                         = 0
  12762:  fstat64(66, 0xFFBF8270)                         = 0
  12762:  ioctl(66, TCGETA, 0xFFBF8354)                   Err#25 ENOTTY
  12762:  read(66, " #   C o p y r i g h t  ".., 8192)    = 1912
  12762:  read(66, 0x001F902C, 8192)                      = 0
  12762:  unlink("/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.pyc") = 0
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.pyc", 
O_WRONLY|O_CREAT|O_TRUNC|O_EXCL, 0666) = 256
  12762:  fcntl(256, F_GETFD, 0xFEFE7F18)                 = 0
  12762:  stat64("/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/traceback", 
0xFFBF7AD0) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/traceback.so", 
O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762: 
open64("/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/tracebackmodule.so", 
O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/traceback.py", 
O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/traceback.pyc", 
O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  stat64("/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/traceback", 0xFFBF7AD0) 
Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/traceback.so", O_RDONLY) 
Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/tracebackmodule.so", 
O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/traceback.py", O_RDONLY) 
Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/traceback.pyc", O_RDONLY) 
Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  stat64("/usr/local/mailman/traceback", 0xFFBF7AD0) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/traceback.so", O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/tracebackmodule.so", O_RDONLY) 
Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/traceback.py", O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/traceback.pyc", O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  stat64("/usr/local/mailman/scripts/traceback", 0xFFBF7AD0) 
Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/scripts/traceback.so", O_RDONLY) 
Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/scripts/tracebackmodule.so", 
O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/scripts/traceback.py", O_RDONLY) 
Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/scripts/traceback.pyc", O_RDONLY) 
Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  stat64("/usr/local/mailman/traceback", 0xFFBF7AD0) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/traceback.so", O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/tracebackmodule.so", O_RDONLY) 
Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/traceback.py", O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/traceback.pyc", O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  stat64("/usr/local/lib/python24.zip/traceback", 0xFFBF7AD0) 
Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python24.zip/traceback.so", O_RDONLY) 
Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python24.zip/tracebackmodule.so", 
O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python24.zip/traceback.py", O_RDONLY) 
Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python24.zip/traceback.pyc", O_RDONLY) 
Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  stat64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/traceback", 0xFFBF7AD0) Err#2 
ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/traceback.so", O_RDONLY) 
Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/tracebackmodule.so", 
O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/traceback.py", O_RDONLY) = 257
  12762:  close(257)                                      = 0
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/traceback.pyc", O_RDONLY) = 257
  12762:  close(257)                                      = 0
  12762:  stat64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/plat-sunos5/traceback", 
0xFFBF7AD0) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/plat-sunos5/traceback.so", 
O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762: 
open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/plat-sunos5/tracebackmodule.so", 
O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/plat-sunos5/traceback.py", 
O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/plat-sunos5/traceback.pyc", 
O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  stat64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-tk/traceback", 
0xFFBF7AD0) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-tk/traceback.so", 
O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-tk/tracebackmodule.so", 
O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-tk/traceback.py", 
O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-tk/traceback.pyc", 
O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  stat64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload/traceback", 
0xFFBF7AD0) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload/traceback.so", 
O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762: 
open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload/tracebackmodule.so", 
O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload/traceback.py", 
O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload/traceback.pyc", 
O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  stat64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/traceback", 
0xFFBF7AD0) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/traceback.so", 
O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762: 
open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/tracebackmodule.so", 
O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/traceback.py", 
O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/traceback.pyc", 
O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT

You can see it actually unlink the compiled version and then look
for, find, and seemingly reject the traceback.py and traceback.pyc
that it finds. I thought it may be a too many open files problem
or a file descriptor limit problem because the FD returned on the
open64("/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.pyc", O_RDONLY)
was 256. But it doesn't return an error. I did see that the ulimit
does say 256 open files is the max, but that doesn't seem to be
the problem.


> Do any other Mailman .pyc files have way more recent dates than the
> corresponding .py, or are any others owned by 'daemon'?
 >
> Maybe next time try something like
> 
> find /usr/local/mailman -type f -a \( -mtime 0 -o -user daemon \)

Currently, I get the following pyc files:

  398722    1 -rw-r--r--   1 daemon   mailman       613 May 31 08:48 
/usr/local/mailman/scripts/paths.pyc
  397000    3 -rw-r--r--   1 www      mailman      2613 Oct 21 08:04 
/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Encoders.pyc
  398921   13 -rw-r--r--   1 www      mailman     13256 Oct 21 08:04 
/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/_parseaddr.pyc
  398829    2 -rw-r--r--   1 mailman  mailman      1308 Oct 21 10:45 
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.pyc



> I really don't understand what's happening since sendmail should always
> be invoking the wrapper with the same user:group and that works at
> first.
> 
> In order to even more closely mimic sendmail, you could try
> 
> cat file | /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin listname
> 
> instead of the above. Beyond that, the only difference I can see is the
> environment, but we say previously, after the wrapper got done with
> the environment, all that was there was
> 
> PYTHONPATH /usr/local/mailman
> AGENT sendmail
> 
> and PYTHONPATH is always put there by the wrapper and presumably AGENT
> is always put there by sendmail.
> 
> So, why does it only seem to fail when sendmail invokes it and only
> after some successful invocations, and why does restarting sendmail
> fix it while restarting Mailman (which will recompile
> /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.py) doesn't fix it?

Again, I thought the restart fixing it pointed to the file descriptor
issue, but it doesn't look like that's it.

In any event, I'm getting too much flak over the lists being down, so
I have done the following. I enabled smrsh and removed the "expensive"
option from it and no longer run with persistent queue runners. Our
server probably isn't busy enough to warrant them anyway. If I continue
to see the problem with the new setup, I will continue to try other
things to fix it.

> 
> Maybe we need to take this to comp.lang.python.

Maybe so. If we are really interested, I can try to do the exact same
setup on another Solaris 10 server and we can work with a non-production
server that way.


--
Dan Szkola
Sr Unix Systems Programmer
Northern Illinois University


From pjh at mccc.edu  Fri Oct 21 23:01:15 2005
From: pjh at mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:01:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender Name
Message-ID: <4359571B.2000807@mccc.edu>

Why does the sender name on my list include the word "bounces"? V2.1.6.

Thanks.

-- 
Pete Holsberg
Columbus, NJ
--
Age is not a particularly interesting subject. Anyone can get old. All you have to do is live long enough. 

Groucho Marx



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 21 23:18:05 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:18:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments are not scrubbed
In-Reply-To: <20051021231203.ja5q0uc84pj4wwko@webmail.azuolas.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510211418050093fef8f0e2@msapiro>

saulius at azuolas.org wrote:
>
>No. Previous version was 2.1.4. And new version (2.1.5) I installed via deb
>(Debian package). In 2.1.4 attachments were scrubbed in simple non-digest
>format (there was one bug with encoding).


Just to be sure I understand, you are saying that attachments were
scrubbed (stored elsewhere and replaced with a link) from individual
messages sent to non-digest subscribers. If this was the case in your
2.1.4, you must have had a local patch to do it which was 'removed'
when you upgraded to 2.1.5.


>But after I upgraded it to 2.1.5,
>attachments were not scrubbed any more (but scrubber still works in archives).
>Hm, is there any posibility to turn it on (maybe in code) - until there 
>will be
>2.1.6 in Debian packages.


If you want to scrub attachments from everything in 2.1.5, it may be as
simple as adding 'Scrubber' to GLOBAL_PIPELINE.

You could try copying the definition of GLOBAL_PIPELINE from
Defaults.py into mm_cfg.py and then add "'Scrubber'," following
"'MimeDel',". or you could add the following to mm_cfg.py which will
add 'Scrubber' if it isn't already there:

if not GLOBAL_PIPELINE.count('Scrubber'):
    GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(GLOBAL_PIPELINE.index('MimeDel') + 1,
                           'Scrubber')

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 21 23:36:02 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 14:36:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender Name
In-Reply-To: <4359571B.2000807@mccc.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510211436020265fef8f18b@msapiro>

Pete Holsberg wrote:

>Why does the sender name on my list include the word "bounces"? V2.1.6.

So that if the mail bounces, the bounce will be returned to
listname-bounces at ... instead of to the list or the OP, and automated
bounce processing will work.

Actually, it should suffice that this address is the envelope sender,
but some non-compliant MTAs send the bounce to Sender: or Errors-To:
so SMTPDirect.py sets these to the envelope sender.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 22 00:15:51 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:15:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange errors
In-Reply-To: <4359522C.6090507@tanis.cso.niu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510211515510093c49a33f0@msapiro>

Dan Szkola wrote:
>
>Very odd, I agree. A truss of the persistent queue runner that handled
>one of the test mails shows this (12762 is the pid that mailman gets
>when sendmail exec's it):
>
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.so", 
>O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utilsmodule.so", 
>O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.py", 
>O_RDONLY) = 66
>  12762:  fstat64(66, 0xFFBF8928)                         = 0
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.pyc", 
>O_RDONLY) = 256
>  12762:  close(256)                                      = 0
>  12762:  fstat64(66, 0xFFBF83C8)                         = 0
>  12762:  fstat64(66, 0xFFBF8270)                         = 0
>  12762:  ioctl(66, TCGETA, 0xFFBF8354)                   Err#25 ENOTTY
>  12762:  read(66, " #   C o p y r i g h t  ".., 8192)    = 1912
>  12762:  read(66, 0x001F902C, 8192)                      = 0
>  12762:  unlink("/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.pyc") = 0
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.pyc", 
>O_WRONLY|O_CREAT|O_TRUNC|O_EXCL, 0666) = 256
>  12762:  fcntl(256, F_GETFD, 0xFEFE7F18)                 = 0
>  12762:  stat64("/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/traceback", 
>0xFFBF7AD0) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/traceback.so", 
>O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762: 
>open64("/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/tracebackmodule.so", 
>O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/traceback.py", 
>O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/traceback.pyc", 
>O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  stat64("/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/traceback", 0xFFBF7AD0) 
>Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/traceback.so", O_RDONLY) 
>Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/tracebackmodule.so", 
>O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/traceback.py", O_RDONLY) 
>Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/traceback.pyc", O_RDONLY) 
>Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  stat64("/usr/local/mailman/traceback", 0xFFBF7AD0) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/traceback.so", O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/tracebackmodule.so", O_RDONLY) 
>Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/traceback.py", O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/traceback.pyc", O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  stat64("/usr/local/mailman/scripts/traceback", 0xFFBF7AD0) 
>Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/scripts/traceback.so", O_RDONLY) 
>Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/scripts/tracebackmodule.so", 
>O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/scripts/traceback.py", O_RDONLY) 
>Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/scripts/traceback.pyc", O_RDONLY) 
>Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  stat64("/usr/local/mailman/traceback", 0xFFBF7AD0) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/traceback.so", O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/tracebackmodule.so", O_RDONLY) 
>Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/traceback.py", O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/mailman/traceback.pyc", O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  stat64("/usr/local/lib/python24.zip/traceback", 0xFFBF7AD0) 
>Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python24.zip/traceback.so", O_RDONLY) 
>Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python24.zip/tracebackmodule.so", 
>O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python24.zip/traceback.py", O_RDONLY) 
>Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python24.zip/traceback.pyc", O_RDONLY) 
>Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  stat64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/traceback", 0xFFBF7AD0) Err#2 
>ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/traceback.so", O_RDONLY) 
>Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/tracebackmodule.so", 
>O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/traceback.py", O_RDONLY) = 257
>  12762:  close(257)                                      = 0
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/traceback.pyc", O_RDONLY) = 257
>  12762:  close(257)                                      = 0
>  12762:  stat64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/plat-sunos5/traceback", 
>0xFFBF7AD0) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/plat-sunos5/traceback.so", 
>O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762: 
>open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/plat-sunos5/tracebackmodule.so", 
>O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/plat-sunos5/traceback.py", 
>O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/plat-sunos5/traceback.pyc", 
>O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  stat64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-tk/traceback", 
>0xFFBF7AD0) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-tk/traceback.so", 
>O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-tk/tracebackmodule.so", 
>O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-tk/traceback.py", 
>O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-tk/traceback.pyc", 
>O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  stat64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload/traceback", 
>0xFFBF7AD0) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload/traceback.so", 
>O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762: 
>open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload/tracebackmodule.so", 
>O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload/traceback.py", 
>O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/lib-dynload/traceback.pyc", 
>O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  stat64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/traceback", 
>0xFFBF7AD0) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/traceback.so", 
>O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762: 
>open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/tracebackmodule.so", 
>O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/traceback.py", 
>O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>  12762:  open64("/usr/local/lib/python2.4/site-packages/traceback.pyc", 
>O_RDONLY) Err#2 ENOENT
>
>You can see it actually unlink the compiled version and then look
>for, find, and seemingly reject the traceback.py and traceback.pyc
>that it finds. I thought it may be a too many open files problem
>or a file descriptor limit problem because the FD returned on the
>open64("/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.pyc", O_RDONLY)
>was 256. But it doesn't return an error. I did see that the ulimit
>does say 256 open files is the max, but that doesn't seem to be
>the problem.


Are you sure this isn't the problem? This is the first thing I've seen
in this entire thread that begins to make sense, and it appears to me
as if it can explain the whole thing.

I know truss is not showing an error, but it is too much of a
coincidence that the open of
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.pyc returns fd=256
(presumably the 257th file) and then Python wants to create a new one
and then the opens of /usr/local/lib/python2.4/traceback.py and
/usr/local/lib/python2.4/traceback.pyc return fd=257 and Python
doesn't see them.

Is it possible that at the level of truss, there is no error and the
limit of 256 files (fd <= 255 ?) is enforced higher up where the
resulting error doesn't get traced?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From szkola at tanis.cso.niu.edu  Sat Oct 22 04:32:15 2005
From: szkola at tanis.cso.niu.edu (Daniel Szkola)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 21:32:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Strange errors
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510211515510093c49a33f0@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200510211515510093c49a33f0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4359A4AF.9080501@tanis.cso.niu.edu>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Dan Szkola wrote:
>>You can see it actually unlink the compiled version and then look
>>for, find, and seemingly reject the traceback.py and traceback.pyc
>>that it finds. I thought it may be a too many open files problem
>>or a file descriptor limit problem because the FD returned on the
>>open64("/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.pyc", O_RDONLY)
>>was 256. But it doesn't return an error. I did see that the ulimit
>>does say 256 open files is the max, but that doesn't seem to be
>>the problem.
> 
> 
> Are you sure this isn't the problem? This is the first thing I've seen
> in this entire thread that begins to make sense, and it appears to me
> as if it can explain the whole thing.

This was my initial thought as well.

> I know truss is not showing an error, but it is too much of a
> coincidence that the open of
> /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Utils.pyc returns fd=256
> (presumably the 257th file) and then Python wants to create a new one
> and then the opens of /usr/local/lib/python2.4/traceback.py and
> /usr/local/lib/python2.4/traceback.pyc return fd=257 and Python
> doesn't see them.

It does not explain why it takes some amount of time to be exposed.
Is sendmail leaking file descriptors? How is it that it always runs
out of file descriptors at that exact point?

I thought too many open files should throw an Err#24 EMFILE, but
I'm seeing evidence from googling that shows what we are seeing.

> Is it possible that at the level of truss, there is no error and the
> limit of 256 files (fd <= 255 ?) is enforced higher up where the
> resulting error doesn't get traced?

Maybe so. I read where someone said that the close immediately
following the open means the FD was rejected.

Still raises questions, but at least I feel like we got somewhere
in debugging this issue.

--
Dan Szkola
Sr Unix Systems Programmer
Northern Illinois University




From pjh at mccc.edu  Fri Oct 21 23:42:06 2005
From: pjh at mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:42:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender Name
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510211436020265fef8f18b@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200510211436020265fef8f18b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <435960AE.8070400@mccc.edu>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Pete Holsberg wrote:
>
>   
>> Why does the sender name on my list include the word "bounces"? V2.1.6.
>>     
>
> So that if the mail bounces, the bounce will be returned to
> listname-bounces at ... instead of to the list or the OP, and automated
> bounce processing will work.
>
> Actually, it should suffice that this address is the envelope sender,
> but some non-compliant MTAs send the bounce to Sender: or Errors-To:
> so SMTPDirect.py sets these to the envelope sender.
>   
The reason I ask is that AOL is identifying email from the list as SPAM, 
and I would like to tell the list members that they can put a certain 
address in their AOL addressbooks. Would that address be the 
listname-bounces at ...??

Thanks.

-- 
Pete Holsberg
Columbus, NJ
--
Age is not a particularly interesting subject. Anyone can get old. All you have to do is live long enough. 

Groucho Marx




From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Sat Oct 22 05:33:52 2005
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 23:33:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender Name
In-Reply-To: <435960AE.8070400@mccc.edu>
References: <PC1740200510211436020265fef8f18b@msapiro>
	<435960AE.8070400@mccc.edu>
Message-ID: <4359B320.1080908@wingfoot.org>

Pete Holsberg said the following on 10/21/2005 5:42 PM:

>>So that if the mail bounces, the bounce will be returned to
>>listname-bounces at ... instead of to the list or the OP, and automated
>>bounce processing will work.
>>
>>Actually, it should suffice that this address is the envelope sender,
>>but some non-compliant MTAs send the bounce to Sender: or Errors-To:
>>so SMTPDirect.py sets these to the envelope sender. 
>>    
>>
>The reason I ask is that AOL is identifying email from the list as SPAM, 
>and I would like to tell the list members that they can put a certain 
>address in their AOL addressbooks. Would that address be the 
>listname-bounces at ...??
>  
>
This is a separate issue that really doesn't have anything to do with
Mailman, per-se.

You need to check out: http://postmaster.aol.com/

Follow their instructions for "Is your mail to AOL being blocked?" and
"Would you like to apply for the AOL Whitelist?"

Once I did that, I no longer had anyone complaining about mail from
lists on my server being blocked.

Best,
--Glenn

-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
          ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759


From aff at mlbox.com  Sat Oct 22 14:47:20 2005
From: aff at mlbox.com (ML)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:47:20 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restart Mailman and IP help
Message-ID: <BF8055D8.E511%aff@mlbox.com>

Hi,

I paid to have Mailman installed on my DirectAdmin CentOS server a few
months ago, recently I had to change the server hostname and IP and Mailman
no longer sends out emails! (the people that originally installed Mailman
will fix the problem if I pay for a one hour support charge, but I believe
it is just a matter of updating to the new IP or hostname)

Also:
1) I can?t find the mm_cfg.py file! Where should it be?
2) how exactly do I restart mailman, what directory must I be in?

Does anyone know where on Mailman or server I need to enter/change the new
IP or hostname?

__________________
Thank you,
ML




From dwight at dtovey.net  Sat Oct 22 15:14:13 2005
From: dwight at dtovey.net (Dwight Tovey)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 07:14:13 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New install: Uncaught runner exception: nothing to
	repeat
Message-ID: <45385.192.168.68.108.1129986853.squirrel@192.168.68.108>

Hello all.

I'm trying to install Mailman 2.1.6 on a Linux system and get it running
with an existing Qmail.  For the most part I thought everything went
smoothly, but now I've run into a snag.

I can create a mailing list with 'newlist -u www.mydom.ain -e mydom.ain
listname' and the list administrator notification goes out.  I create the
.qmail-listname* aliases and go to the web interface to set the list
configuration.  For this list I'm setting it so that new subscribers have
to confirm and be approved by the administrator.

Next I go in to the list info page and sign up.  The confirmation message
succesfully goes out.  I then confirm the subscription (either by clicking
on the supplied link or sending back a reply) and from the logs I can see
that Mailman tries to send out a notification to the list admin.  However,
that message never gets out.  In the Mailman error log, I see the
following:

===============================8<-----------------------------------------
Oct 21 22:04:30 2005 (22115) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in
_dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in
_dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py", line 98, in
process
    cre = re.compile(regex, re.IGNORECASE)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/sre.py", line 179, in compile
    return _compile(pattern, flags)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/sre.py", line 229, in _compile
    raise error, v # invalid expression
error: nothing to repeat

Oct 21 22:04:30 2005 (22115) SHUNTING:
1129867468.9166019+626355503683f18064d71e00212f9824c933a999
===============================8<-----------------------------------------

I know nothing about Python, so I'm not completely sure what's going on
here, but it looks like a bad regular expression somewhere.  I wouldn't be
too surprised if I have something completely wrong in the configuration,
but I have no idea where to look.

Does anybody have any pointers?

Thanks

    /dwight

-- 
Dwight N. Tovey
email: dwight at dtovey.net
web: http://www.dtovey.net/~dwight
-----------
First Law of Bicycling: No matter which way you ride, it's uphill and
against the wind.



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 22 18:24:58 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 09:24:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restart Mailman and IP help
In-Reply-To: <BF8055D8.E511%aff@mlbox.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005102209245809685c59d4a2@msapiro>

ML wrote:
>
>I paid to have Mailman installed on my DirectAdmin CentOS server a few
>months ago, recently I had to change the server hostname and IP and Mailman
>no longer sends out emails! (the people that originally installed Mailman
>will fix the problem if I pay for a one hour support charge, but I believe
>it is just a matter of updating to the new IP or hostname)


This is covered in the FAQ - article 4.29. Be sure not to overlook the
section on 'Existing vs. new lists'

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py


>Also:
>1) I can't find the mm_cfg.py file! Where should it be?


Depending on how Mailman was installed on your system there can be just
one, two or more directories containing mailman. Mailman is often
installed in a single directory, sometimes referred to as $prefix.
Sometimes, mutable data is in a second directory referred to
$var-prefix. Sometimes wrappers can be in a third directory.

If Mailman was installed from source, there may also be the directory
in which Mailman was unpacked and configured.

Do

find / -name Mailman

to find the Mailman directory which should be at the top level within
the $prefix directory, but you might also find one in the source
directory. Normally there will be only one Mailman directory that
contains both *.py and *.pyc files and this will contain mm_cfg.py.


>2) how exactly do I restart mailman, what directory must I be in?


You don't need to be in a specific directory. You start and stop
mailman with $prefix/bin/mailmanctl. Assuming you're in the $prefix
directory,

bin/mailmanctl --help

will give the documentation.

Also, depending on how Mailman was installed there may be a script in
some place like /etc/init.d/mailman or /etc/rc.d/init.d/mailman which
you can look at.


>Does anyone know where on Mailman or server I need to enter/change the new
>IP or hostname?


If I understand this question correctly, the answer is the subject of
the above referenced FAQ.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 22 18:48:13 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 09:48:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New install: Uncaught runner exception: nothing
	torepeat
In-Reply-To: <45385.192.168.68.108.1129986853.squirrel@192.168.68.108>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510220948130656051140dd@msapiro>

Dwight Tovey wrote:
>
>Next I go in to the list info page and sign up.  The confirmation message
>succesfully goes out.  I then confirm the subscription (either by clicking
>on the supplied link or sending back a reply) and from the logs I can see
>that Mailman tries to send out a notification to the list admin.  However,
>that message never gets out.  In the Mailman error log, I see the
>following:
>
>===============================8<-----------------------------------------
>Oct 21 22:04:30 2005 (22115) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in
>_dispose
>    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in
>_dopipeline
>    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py", line 98, in
>process
>    cre = re.compile(regex, re.IGNORECASE)
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/sre.py", line 179, in compile
>    return _compile(pattern, flags)
>  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/sre.py", line 229, in _compile
>    raise error, v # invalid expression
>error: nothing to repeat
>
>Oct 21 22:04:30 2005 (22115) SHUNTING:
>1129867468.9166019+626355503683f18064d71e00212f9824c933a999
>===============================8<-----------------------------------------
>
>I know nothing about Python, so I'm not completely sure what's going on
>here, but it looks like a bad regular expression somewhere.  I wouldn't be
>too surprised if I have something completely wrong in the configuration,
>but I have no idea where to look.

You're almost there. If you look at lines 97 and 98 in
/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py, you'll see

    for header, regex in mm_cfg.KNOWN_SPAMMERS:
        cre = re.compile(regex, re.IGNORECASE)

Thus, the bad regex is in the KNOWN_SPAMMERS list in mm_cfg.py.

Note that the format of this list is for example

KNOWN_SPAMMERS = [
    ('subject', '.*[s$]ex'),
    ('header2', 'regex2'),
    ('header3', 'regex3')
    ]

Also, see the discussion in Defaults.py about KNOWN_SPAMMERS in
Defaults.py. It may be preferable to use Privacy options...Spam
filters in the list configuration.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From d4rkness at comcast.net  Sun Oct 23 03:02:51 2005
From: d4rkness at comcast.net (David)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 21:02:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Members auto placed on moderation.
Message-ID: <435AE13B.7030004@comcast.net>

I am trying to set it so new members are auto placed on moderation at 
sign up and once proved worthy of not spamming and posting inappropriate 
material moved to unmoderated status.  Is this possible?

Thanks David



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct 23 05:04:28 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 20:04:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Members auto placed on moderation.
In-Reply-To: <435AE13B.7030004@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC174020051022200428026527dfaf45@msapiro>

David wrote:

>I am trying to set it so new members are auto placed on moderation at 
>sign up and once proved worthy of not spamming and posting inappropriate 
>material moved to unmoderated status.  Is this possible?


Privacy options...->Sender filters->default_member_moderation = Yes

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dwight at dtovey.net  Sun Oct 23 05:57:59 2005
From: dwight at dtovey.net (Dwight Tovey)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 21:57:59 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New install: Uncaught runner exception: nothing
 torepeat
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510220948130656051140dd@msapiro>
References: <45385.192.168.68.108.1129986853.squirrel@192.168.68.108>
	<PC1740200510220948130656051140dd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <32988.192.168.68.97.1130039879.squirrel@192.168.68.97>


Mark Sapiro said:
> You're almost there. If you look at lines 97 and 98 in
> /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py, you'll see
>
>     for header, regex in mm_cfg.KNOWN_SPAMMERS:
>         cre = re.compile(regex, re.IGNORECASE)
>
> Thus, the bad regex is in the KNOWN_SPAMMERS list in mm_cfg.py.
>
> Note that the format of this list is for example
>
> KNOWN_SPAMMERS = [
>     ('subject', '.*[s$]ex'),
>     ('header2', 'regex2'),
>     ('header3', 'regex3')
>     ]
>
> Also, see the discussion in Defaults.py about KNOWN_SPAMMERS in
> Defaults.py. It may be preferable to use Privacy options...Spam
> filters in the list configuration.
>

Thanks.  I saw my problem with the KNOWN_SPAMMERS, but after fixing it I
still the same error.  I even removed KNOWN_SPAMMERS from my mm_cfg.py and
I still get the error.

Looking at the code in SpamDetect,  I don't see how it could get that
error without KNOWN_SPAMMERS defined.  It shouldn't enter the loop at all.
 Is the config file cached somewhere?

Thanks again for the response.
   /dwight

-- 
Dwight N. Tovey
email: dwight at dtovey.net
web: http://www.dtovey.net/~dwight
-----------
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do
nothing."  Edmund Burke



From dwight at dtovey.net  Sun Oct 23 06:22:19 2005
From: dwight at dtovey.net (Dwight Tovey)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 22:22:19 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New install: Uncaught runner exception: nothing
 torepeat
In-Reply-To: <32988.192.168.68.97.1130039879.squirrel@192.168.68.97>
References: <45385.192.168.68.108.1129986853.squirrel@192.168.68.108>
	<PC1740200510220948130656051140dd@msapiro>
	<32988.192.168.68.97.1130039879.squirrel@192.168.68.97>
Message-ID: <33032.192.168.68.97.1130041339.squirrel@192.168.68.97>


Dwight Tovey said:
>
> Mark Sapiro said:
>> You're almost there. If you look at lines 97 and 98 in
>> /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py, you'll see
>>
>>     for header, regex in mm_cfg.KNOWN_SPAMMERS:
>>         cre = re.compile(regex, re.IGNORECASE)
>>
>> Thus, the bad regex is in the KNOWN_SPAMMERS list in mm_cfg.py.
>>
>> Note that the format of this list is for example
>>
>> KNOWN_SPAMMERS = [
>>     ('subject', '.*[s$]ex'),
>>     ('header2', 'regex2'),
>>     ('header3', 'regex3')
>>     ]
>>
>> Also, see the discussion in Defaults.py about KNOWN_SPAMMERS in
>> Defaults.py. It may be preferable to use Privacy options...Spam
>> filters in the list configuration.
>>
>
> Thanks.  I saw my problem with the KNOWN_SPAMMERS, but after fixing it I
> still the same error.  I even removed KNOWN_SPAMMERS from my mm_cfg.py and
> I still get the error.
>
> Looking at the code in SpamDetect,  I don't see how it could get that
> error without KNOWN_SPAMMERS defined.  It shouldn't enter the loop at all.
>  Is the config file cached somewhere?
>

Nevermind.  Dumb mistake.  I forgot to restart the Mailman daemons after
modifying mm_cfg.  Once I did that and ran the 'unshunt' program, the
admin messages went through OK.  Now on with the rest of my testing.

Thanks again.

    /dwight

-- 
Dwight N. Tovey
email: dwight at dtovey.net
web: http://www.dtovey.net/~dwight
-----------
If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried.



From listmanager at postnuke.tv  Sun Oct 23 07:42:01 2005
From: listmanager at postnuke.tv (David)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 13:42:01 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting-up cascading, filtering list designs
In-Reply-To: <33032.192.168.68.97.1130041339.squirrel@192.168.68.97>
References: <45385.192.168.68.108.1129986853.squirrel@192.168.68.108>	<PC1740200510220948130656051140dd@msapiro>	<32988.192.168.68.97.1130039879.squirrel@192.168.68.97>
	<33032.192.168.68.97.1130041339.squirrel@192.168.68.97>
Message-ID: <435B22A9.8060406@postnuke.tv>

Hi, :)

I'm the languages and localization lead of the PostNuke project's  
(http://www.postnuke.com). In my Gforge-based pnLanguages project 
(http://www.noc.postnuke.com/projects/pnlanguages), I am using Mailman 
to set-up lists to report on CVS activity in two repositories: 1) the 
PostNuke development team's CVS (http://cvs.postnuke.com/viewcvs.cgi/), 
and 2) the pnLanguages team's own CVS 
(http://noc.postnuke.com/scm/?group_id=57).

My lists page is at http://noc.postnuke.com/mail/?group_id=57

I can find my way around the Mailman admin with no problem, but I have 
absolutely no knowledge of Python or regular expressions, and a little 
bit of googling did not throw up any really helpful results for me. If 
anyone could save me quite a few hours of work by figuring out the 
necessary regular expressions and Mailman configuration settings, I'd be 
so grateful... :)


1)  pnlanguages-cvsenglish

pnlanguages-cvsenglish is supposed to receive CVS notices from the 
development team's own CVS notices list (postnuke-cvsnotices). It should 
then only pass on CVS notices that concern changes to the English 
language files in the PostNuke dev team's CVS. Notices received on the 
PostNuke dev team's CVS notices list (postnuke-cvsnotices) contain 
subject lines such as:

[postnuke-cvsnotices] PostNuke/system/Modules/pnlang/eng admin.php

pnlanguages-cvsenglish is subscribed to postnuke-cvsnotices. 
pnlanguages-cvsenglish has to examine the subject line of each message 
received and find all subject lines that contain:

- "pnlang/eng" or "lang/eng" (indicating an English language directory 
was affected),
- "manual.html" (indicating an on-line help file was affected),
- "readme.txt" (a read-me file was affected),
- "version.php" or "pnversion.php" (a module version information file 
was affected,
- "credits.txt" or "CREDITS.txt" (indicating a credits file was affected).

It should then forward to the list subscribers only those messages thus 
identified.

I cannot persuade the postnuke-cvsnotices owner to set-up any topics in 
his list, otherwise I could just subscribe pnlanguages-cvsenglish to the 
appropriate topic(s). I have to devise my own solution. Perhaps I need 
an intermediate "pipeline" list between postnuke-cvsnotices and 
pnlanguages-cvsenglish, to filter-out the unwanted CVS notice messages?

MY FIRST QUESTION: Could anyone suggest the answer, or give me any tips 
to get me further down the road?


2) pnlanguages-cvsnotices

I have set-up several lists to report on activity in the pnLanguages own 
CVS repository.

MY SECOND QUESTION: How do I get CVS to report on activity to the 
Mailman pnlanguages-cvsnotices list?

pnlanguages-cvsnotices reports on CVS activity by all language 
subprojects that store work in the pnLanguages CVS repository.

Each language subproject stores its files in a separate CVS module, so 
the pnLanguages CVS repository contains modules such as:

[DIR] cat-0761-langpack/
[DIR] dan-0761-langpack/
[DIR] deu-0761-langpack/
[DIR] fra-0761-langpack/
[DIR] ita-0761-langpack/
etc...

But subproject members only want to know about changes to files 
belonging to their particular subproject. So I have set-up one mailing 
list for each subproject, i.e.:

- pnlanguages-cvs-cat (Catalan subproject),
- pnlanguages-cvs-dan (Danish subproject),
- pnlanguages-cvs-deu (German subproject),
- pnlanguages-cvs-fra (French subproject),
- pnlanguages-cvs-ita (Italian subproject),
etc...

MY THIRD QUESTION: How do I configure pnlanguages-cvsnotices and these 
subproject lists so that pnlanguages-cvsnotices reports ALL CVS 
activity, but so that the subproject lists such as pnlanguages-cvs-fra 
(for instance) only report on CVS activity involving files in their own 
CVS module?

Any answers or tips to get me ahead would be most gratefully accepted. :)

All best wishes,

David



From rynok at yahoo.com  Sun Oct 23 08:11:31 2005
From: rynok at yahoo.com (Gregory Griffiths)
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 23:11:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installing question
Message-ID: <20051023061131.776.qmail@web54512.mail.yahoo.com>

I've been told that the download files to install
Mailman are compressed (hense the .tgz ending to file
names), but I admittedly don't know what program would
be required to 'uncompress' (if that's even a word)
the files.  What program is used to do that?

~Gregory


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com


From listmanager at postnuke.tv  Sun Oct 23 13:01:41 2005
From: listmanager at postnuke.tv (David)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 19:01:41 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installing question
In-Reply-To: <20051023061131.776.qmail@web54512.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20051023061131.776.qmail@web54512.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <435B6D95.2050805@postnuke.tv>

Gregory, are you using Windows or Linux? Under Windows, WinZip does the 
job fine. Under Linux, using Gnome (for instance), just double-click on 
the file:.

David

Gregory Griffiths wrote:

>I've been told that the download files to install
>Mailman are compressed (hense the .tgz ending to file
>names), but I admittedly don't know what program would
>be required to 'uncompress' (if that's even a word)
>the files.  What program is used to do that?
>
>~Gregory
>
>
>		
>__________________________________ 
>Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
>http://farechase.yahoo.com
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/listmanager%40postnuke.tv
>
>Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>
>
>
>  
>



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Oct 23 13:44:14 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 13:44:14 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting-up cascading, filtering list designs
In-Reply-To: <435B22A9.8060406@postnuke.tv>
References: <45385.192.168.68.108.1129986853.squirrel@192.168.68.108>
	<PC1740200510220948130656051140dd@msapiro>
	<32988.192.168.68.97.1130039879.squirrel@192.168.68.97>
	<33032.192.168.68.97.1130041339.squirrel@192.168.68.97>
	<435B22A9.8060406@postnuke.tv>
Message-ID: <p0620070ebf812722ec1d@[10.0.1.210]>

At 1:42 PM +0800 2005-10-23, David wrote:

>  I cannot persuade the postnuke-cvsnotices owner to set-up any topics in
>  his list, otherwise I could just subscribe pnlanguages-cvsenglish to the
>  appropriate topic(s). I have to devise my own solution. Perhaps I need
>  an intermediate "pipeline" list between postnuke-cvsnotices and
>  pnlanguages-cvsenglish, to filter-out the unwanted CVS notice messages?

	Procmail is your friend.  Search the Mailman FAQ Wizard for 
"procmail" and you should find some useful examples.

>  2) pnlanguages-cvsnotices
>
>  I have set-up several lists to report on activity in the pnLanguages own
>  CVS repository.
>
>  MY SECOND QUESTION: How do I get CVS to report on activity to the
>  Mailman pnlanguages-cvsnotices list?

	That sounds like a CVS problem, and is not something we're likely 
to be able to help you with.  But maybe I'm missing something, so 
feel free to try to elaborate.

>  MY THIRD QUESTION: How do I configure pnlanguages-cvsnotices and these
>  subproject lists so that pnlanguages-cvsnotices reports ALL CVS
>  activity, but so that the subproject lists such as pnlanguages-cvs-fra
>  (for instance) only report on CVS activity involving files in their own
>  CVS module?

	Again, it seems to me like you want to use procmail for this. 
The kind of filtering you seem to be looking for is beyond the 
capabilities of Mailman, at least beyond the capabilities of Mailman 
by itself.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Sun Oct 23 15:19:00 2005
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 22:19:00 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting-up cascading, filtering list designs
In-Reply-To: <435B22A9.8060406@postnuke.tv>
References: <45385.192.168.68.108.1129986853.squirrel@192.168.68.108>	<PC1740200510220948130656051140dd@msapiro>	<32988.192.168.68.97.1130039879.squirrel@192.168.68.97>	<33032.192.168.68.97.1130041339.squirrel@192.168.68.97>
	<435B22A9.8060406@postnuke.tv>
Message-ID: <435B8DC4.3050907@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi,

> [postnuke-cvsnotices] PostNuke/system/Modules/pnlang/eng admin.php
> 
> pnlanguages-cvsenglish is subscribed to postnuke-cvsnotices. 
> pnlanguages-cvsenglish has to examine the subject line of each message 
> received and find all subject lines that contain:
> 
> - "pnlang/eng" or "lang/eng" (indicating an English language directory 
> was affected),
> - "manual.html" (indicating an on-line help file was affected),
> - "readme.txt" (a read-me file was affected),
> - "version.php" or "pnversion.php" (a module version information file 
> was affected,
> - "credits.txt" or "CREDITS.txt" (indicating a credits file was affected).
> 
> It should then forward to the list subscribers only those messages thus 
> identified.

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.051.htp
might be helpful.  You can use two entries for header_filter_rules like:

first rule =
subject:.*(lang/eng|manual\.html|readme\.txt|version\.php|credits\.txt)
set this "Accept",
second rule = . (single dot),
and set this "Discard".

Cheers,
-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct 23 20:52:31 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 11:52:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting-up cascading, filtering list designs
In-Reply-To: <435B22A9.8060406@postnuke.tv>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510231152310375dff37616@msapiro>

David wrote:
>
>MY FIRST QUESTION: Could anyone suggest the answer, or give me any tips 
>to get me further down the road?


I think Tokio's suggestion is the way to go on this. As Brad suggests,
you can do it with procmail ahead of Mailman, but that is much less
transparent than header_filter_rules and more work to setup and
maintain.



>MY SECOND QUESTION: How do I get CVS to report on activity to the 
>Mailman pnlanguages-cvsnotices list?


See Cederqvist, section 10.4 (Multiple developers->Informing others
about commits) and section C.7 (Reference manual for Administrative
files->Loginfo), or see the 'Commit Emails' section on pg 120 of _Open
Source Development with CVS_, 3rd ed.
(http://cvsbook.red-bean.com/OSDevWithCVS_3E.pdf)


>MY THIRD QUESTION: How do I configure pnlanguages-cvsnotices and these 
>subproject lists so that pnlanguages-cvsnotices reports ALL CVS 
>activity, but so that the subproject lists such as pnlanguages-cvs-fra 
>(for instance) only report on CVS activity involving files in their own 
>CVS module?


You can set this up in CVS so CVS mails any commits in a subproject
directory to the appropriate subproject list and mails ALL commits to
the pnlanguages-cvsnotices list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From bernd at firmix.at  Sun Oct 23 20:50:39 2005
From: bernd at firmix.at (Bernd Petrovitsch)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:50:39 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'NoneType'
	objects
Message-ID: <1130093439.3960.83.camel@gimli.at.home>

Hi!

I get the following on mailman-2.1.5 on Debian-Sarge:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/disabled", line 222, in ?
>     main()
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/disabled", line 205, in main
>     mlist.sendNextNotification(member)
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py", line 261, in sendNextNotification
>     msg['Subject'] = 'confirm ' + info.cookie
> TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and 'NoneType' objects

I found http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2005-July/018161.html
and did what is described there and it doesn't help anything.
Any other idea?

	Bernd
-- 
Firmix Software GmbH                   http://www.firmix.at/
mobil: +43 664 4416156                 fax: +43 1 7890849-55
          Embedded Linux Development and Services





From bernd at firmix.at  Sun Oct 23 21:11:00 2005
From: bernd at firmix.at (Bernd Petrovitsch)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 21:11:00 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable Subscriptions/Unsubscriptions
Message-ID: <1130094660.3960.86.camel@gimli.at.home>

Hi all!

Is there a possibility to disable the member subscription/unsubscription
through the web interface?
The list-members are added and removed with a script which is fed from a
DB so there is no point in self-subscription.

	Bernd
-- 
Firmix Software GmbH                   http://www.firmix.at/
mobil: +43 664 4416156                 fax: +43 1 7890849-55
          Embedded Linux Development and Services





From hannah at schlund.de  Sun Oct 23 21:23:00 2005
From: hannah at schlund.de (Hannah Schroeter)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 21:23:00 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable Subscriptions/Unsubscriptions
In-Reply-To: <1130094660.3960.86.camel@gimli.at.home>
References: <1130094660.3960.86.camel@gimli.at.home>
Message-ID: <20051023192300.GB3208@schlund.de>

Hello!

On Sun, Oct 23, 2005 at 09:11:00PM +0200, Bernd Petrovitsch wrote:
>Hi all!

>Is there a possibility to disable the member subscription/unsubscription
>through the web interface?
>The list-members are added and removed with a script which is fed from a
>DB so there is no point in self-subscription.

I don't know whether there's a specific knob in mailman itself, but
you could either just not publish the list info address at all, or
deny access to it, using appropriate web server configuration (access
control or rewrite rules to show explanatory text instead).

>	Bernd

Kind regards,

Hannah.


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct 23 22:16:26 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 13:16:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str' and
	'NoneType'objects
In-Reply-To: <1130093439.3960.83.camel@gimli.at.home>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510231316260109aa6abda7@msapiro>

Bernd Petrovitsch wrote:
>
>I found http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2005-July/018161.html
>and did what is described there and it doesn't help anything.
>Any other idea?

Are you sure you didn't make a mistake or overlook something? Are you
sure you did the offending list?

If you forgot to do

m.Save()

in withlist, your change wouldn't be saved. If you misspelled
bounce_info, e.g.

m.bounce-info = {}

Python wouldn't complain. It would just create a new attribute with the
misspelled name.

Try

bin/dumpdb lists/listname/config.pck and see what you get for
bounce_info.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct 23 22:42:45 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 13:42:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable Subscriptions/Unsubscriptions
In-Reply-To: <1130094660.3960.86.camel@gimli.at.home>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510231342450734eac5120b@msapiro>

Bernd Petrovitsch wrote:
>
>Is there a possibility to disable the member subscription/unsubscription
>through the web interface?
>The list-members are added and removed with a script which is fed from a
>DB so there is no point in self-subscription.


You can edit the listinfo.html template either as described in
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp
or via the Edit the public HTML pages -> General list information page
link in the list admin interface. You could remove the subscribe form
or replace the page entirely.

If you choose to remove the subscribe form from the template, be
careful. The <MM-Subscribe-Form-Start> tag is much earlier in the page
than is necessary or expected and is thus, easy to overlook.

You may also wish to do something similar with the user options page
(options.html template) to remove the address change and unsubscribe
stuff.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From bernd at firmix.at  Sun Oct 23 22:42:50 2005
From: bernd at firmix.at (Bernd Petrovitsch)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 22:42:50 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str'
	and	'NoneType'objects
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510231316260109aa6abda7@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200510231316260109aa6abda7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1130100170.3960.90.camel@gimli.at.home>

On Sun, 2005-10-23 at 13:16 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Bernd Petrovitsch wrote:
> >I found http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2005-July/018161.html
> >and did what is described there and it doesn't help anything.
> >Any other idea?
> 
> Are you sure you didn't make a mistake or overlook something? Are you
> sure you did the offending list?

Actually I?m fairly sure that I didn't but i'm completely new to python
as programming language....

> If you forgot to do
[...]
> bin/dumpdb lists/listname/config.pck and see what you get for
> bounce_info.

Hmm, doing it one more time seems to work. So I must have done something
wrong before.

Sorry for bothering....
	Bernd
-- 
Firmix Software GmbH                   http://www.firmix.at/
mobil: +43 664 4416156                 fax: +43 1 7890849-55
          Embedded Linux Development and Services





From maddoc at maddoc.net  Sun Oct 23 22:55:36 2005
From: maddoc at maddoc.net (Doc Schneider)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:55:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] to verp or not to verp....
Message-ID: <435BF8C8.2090804@maddoc.net>

I need some suggestions/help with how to setup VERP wih MM 2.1.5 and 
Sendmail 8.13.4

I've read all the FAQs and they do help except they fail to give an 
example sendmail aliases entry if one is using VERP. I may have missed 
it and if so a pointer would be helpful.

The reason I want to use this is I've got a list with a whole boatload 
of AOL people on it and after getting reported as spam to AOL 16 times 
the other night--guy who did this just said he hit the wrong button--the 
list owner  decided to just place her aol people on digest.. only there 
is no way to "personalize" the digests. And am now getting a few reports 
from aol's feedback loop that are this same list in the digest vesion, 
and of course now there is no way to figure out who is doing the reporting.

If it were up to me I'd just ban all of aol from using the lists we run 
here... but guess that is not too realistic.

So, anyone have a recommendation and a snip of a properly done VERP 
entry from mm.cfg and (Sendmail) aliases.

Thanks,

-Doc


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct 23 22:58:27 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 13:58:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] TypeError: cannot concatenate 'str'
	and'NoneType'objects
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510231316260109aa6abda7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510231358270437eeb76ff0@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>If you misspelled
>bounce_info, e.g.
>
>m.bounce-info = {}
>
>Python wouldn't complain. It would just create a new attribute with the
>misspelled name.


Ooops - momentary brain cramp. Python would complain about that
particular misspelling because '-' is an operator.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sidney at reikan.com.br  Sun Oct 23 23:09:42 2005
From: sidney at reikan.com.br (Sidney Ferreira - Reikan)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 19:09:42 -0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] History
Message-ID: <435BFC16.2020209@reikan.com.br>

    Does mailman allow to access history of the list?
    Can I have different "skins"?


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct 23 23:37:57 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:37:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] to verp or not to verp....
In-Reply-To: <435BF8C8.2090804@maddoc.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510231437570828a090c0d5@msapiro>

Doc Schneider wrote:

>I need some suggestions/help with how to setup VERP wih MM 2.1.5 and 
>Sendmail 8.13.4
>
>I've read all the FAQs and they do help except they fail to give an 
>example sendmail aliases entry if one is using VERP. I may have missed 
>it and if so a pointer would be helpful.


That's because aliases don't change.

>From http://www.sendmail.org/m4/mailers.html

The local mailer accepts addresses of the form "user+detail", where the
"+detail" is not used for mailbox matching but is available to certain
local mail programs.

In other words, when the bounce is returned to

listname-bounces+membername=memberdomain at mailmandomain

the incoming sendmail will deliver it just as it would have if it were
addressed to

listname-bounces at mailmandomain

so you don't need any special aliases other than the normal ones.


>The reason I want to use this is I've got a list with a whole boatload 
>of AOL people on it and after getting reported as spam to AOL 16 times 
>the other night--guy who did this just said he hit the wrong button--the 
>list owner  decided to just place her aol people on digest.. only there 
>is no way to "personalize" the digests. And am now getting a few reports 
>from aol's feedback loop that are this same list in the digest vesion, 
>and of course now there is no way to figure out who is doing the reporting.
>
>If it were up to me I'd just ban all of aol from using the lists we run 
>here... but guess that is not too realistic.


You're not alone in this. See for example the thread beginning at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2003-November/032604.html


>So, anyone have a recommendation and a snip of a properly done VERP 
>entry from mm.cfg and (Sendmail) aliases.

In order to get VERP-like bounce reporting on digests, you need

VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1

and as long as you're doing that, you might as well add

VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes

so essentially everything gets VERPed.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From srb at umich.edu  Sun Oct 23 23:41:51 2005
From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 17:41:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is mailman really this clever?
Message-ID: <C9A8ADE1136C0F474FC3170D@srb.local>

Does mailman, as it's sending out list mail, check to see whether someone 
it's about to send a copy to is also mentioned in the cc: field, and then 
not send it to avoid duplicates?  I run a small mailman installation on a 
home server, and just received only one copy of a message that was sent 
both to a list I'm on and cc'd to me.  Looking through the MTA's logs, I 
see the message going out to each of the recipients except me.

If this is really the way it works, that's cool...

-- 
Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910


From bernd at firmix.at  Sun Oct 23 23:51:14 2005
From: bernd at firmix.at (Bernd Petrovitsch)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 23:51:14 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is mailman really this clever?
In-Reply-To: <C9A8ADE1136C0F474FC3170D@srb.local>
References: <C9A8ADE1136C0F474FC3170D@srb.local>
Message-ID: <1130104274.3960.92.camel@gimli.at.home>

On Sun, 2005-10-23 at 17:41 -0400, Steve Burling wrote:
> Does mailman, as it's sending out list mail, check to see whether someone 
> it's about to send a copy to is also mentioned in the cc: field, and then 
> not send it to avoid duplicates?  I run a small mailman installation on a 
> home server, and just received only one copy of a message that was sent 
> both to a list I'm on and cc'd to me.  Looking through the MTA's logs, I 
> see the message going out to each of the recipients except me.
> 
> If this is really the way it works, that's cool...

The receiver can actually select on the options page if he/she wants to
gets duplicates or not.

	Bernd
-- 
Firmix Software GmbH                   http://www.firmix.at/
mobil: +43 664 4416156                 fax: +43 1 7890849-55
          Embedded Linux Development and Services





From bernd at firmix.at  Sun Oct 23 23:55:31 2005
From: bernd at firmix.at (Bernd Petrovitsch)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 23:55:31 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disable Subscriptions/Unsubscriptions
In-Reply-To: <20051023192300.GB3208@schlund.de>
References: <1130094660.3960.86.camel@gimli.at.home>
	<20051023192300.GB3208@schlund.de>
Message-ID: <1130104531.3960.96.camel@gimli.at.home>

On Sun, 2005-10-23 at 21:23 +0200, Hannah Schroeter wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 23, 2005 at 09:11:00PM +0200, Bernd Petrovitsch wrote:
> >Hi all!
> 
> >Is there a possibility to disable the member subscription/unsubscription
> >through the web interface?
> >The list-members are added and removed with a script which is fed from a
> >DB so there is no point in self-subscription.
> 
> I don't know whether there's a specific knob in mailman itself, but

See the other answer - I'm just editing (copies of) the template files
(and it is actually only deleting ....).

> you could either just not publish the list info address at all, or
> deny access to it, using appropriate web server configuration (access
> control or rewrite rules to show explanatory text instead).

Yes, that was my first idea: Rewrite the URL via Apache and show another
page instead.

	Bernd
-- 
Firmix Software GmbH                   http://www.firmix.at/
mobil: +43 664 4416156                 fax: +43 1 7890849-55
          Embedded Linux Development and Services





From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 24 00:00:47 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 15:00:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] History
In-Reply-To: <435BFC16.2020209@reikan.com.br>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510231500470593a25e1920@msapiro>

Sidney Ferreira - Reikan wrote:

>    Does mailman allow to access history of the list?


If you mean can Mailman provide an archive of posts to the list, then
yes it can.


>    Can I have different "skins"?


There are patches to support CSS style sheets. See

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=717745&group_id=103&atid=300103,

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=687704&group_id=103&atid=300103
and

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=605234&group_id=103&atid=300103

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From bernd at firmix.at  Sun Oct 23 23:58:37 2005
From: bernd at firmix.at (Bernd Petrovitsch)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 23:58:37 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ISO-8859-1/Latin1 vs UTF-8
Message-ID: <1130104717.3960.99.camel@gimli.at.home>

Apparently all of the German translation of Mailman is in ISO-8859-1 (or
ISO-8859-15) - at least in the standard Debian mailman package.

Is there a special reason for not moving to UTF-8 in general?

	Bernd
-- 
Firmix Software GmbH                   http://www.firmix.at/
mobil: +43 664 4416156                 fax: +43 1 7890849-55
          Embedded Linux Development and Services





From maddoc at maddoc.net  Mon Oct 24 00:48:45 2005
From: maddoc at maddoc.net (Doc Schneider)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 17:48:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] to verp or not to verp....
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510231437570828a090c0d5@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200510231437570828a090c0d5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <435C134D.1070802@maddoc.net>


> 
> In order to get VERP-like bounce reporting on digests, you need
> 
> VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1
> 
> and as long as you're doing that, you might as well add
> 
> VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes
> 
> so essentially everything gets VERPed.
> 

Are these the only two I need to enable?

I did that and even restarted MM (2.1.6 not .5 like I had said)

And looking at the headers I can find nothing to indicate it is working.

Am I just blind?

-Doc


From maddoc at maddoc.net  Mon Oct 24 01:19:11 2005
From: maddoc at maddoc.net (Doc Schneider)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 18:19:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] to verp or not to verp....
In-Reply-To: <435C134D.1070802@maddoc.net>
References: <PC1740200510231437570828a090c0d5@msapiro>
	<435C134D.1070802@maddoc.net>
Message-ID: <435C1A6F.6020301@maddoc.net>

Doc Schneider wrote:
>>In order to get VERP-like bounce reporting on digests, you need
>>
>>VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1
>>
>>and as long as you're doing that, you might as well add
>>
>>VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes
>>
>>so essentially everything gets VERPed.
>>
> 
> 
> Are these the only two I need to enable?
> 
> I did that and even restarted MM (2.1.6 not .5 like I had said)
> 
> And looking at the headers I can find nothing to indicate it is working.
> 
> Am I just blind?

Nevermind I had to also enable the personalization for VERP since I use 
that a lot!

Thanks again Mark.

-Doc


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 24 02:07:00 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 17:07:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] to verp or not to verp....
In-Reply-To: <435C1A6F.6020301@maddoc.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402005102317070001569607b21c@msapiro>

Doc Schneider wrote:

>Doc Schneider wrote:
>>>In order to get VERP-like bounce reporting on digests, you need
>>>
>>>VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1
>>>
>>>and as long as you're doing that, you might as well add
>>>
>>>VERP_PASSWORD_REMINDERS = Yes
>>>
>>>so essentially everything gets VERPed.
>>>
>> 
>> 
>> Are these the only two I need to enable?
>> 
>> I did that and even restarted MM (2.1.6 not .5 like I had said)
>> 
>> And looking at the headers I can find nothing to indicate it is working.
>> 
>> Am I just blind?
>
>Nevermind I had to also enable the personalization for VERP since I use 
>that a lot!


My mistake.

As you have discovered, VERP'd delivery for a personalized list is
controlled by VERP_PERSONALIZED_DELIVERIES and not by
VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL. This is true even for VERPing the delivery of
digests for a personalized list even though the digests aren't
personalized.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dwight at dtovey.net  Mon Oct 24 04:55:01 2005
From: dwight at dtovey.net (Dwight Tovey)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:55:01 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating lists from old system
Message-ID: <32913.192.168.68.97.1130122501.squirrel@192.168.68.97>

Hello all

I have some lists running on a system with Mailman 2.0.13.  I have
installed Mailman 2.1.6 on a new system and I would like to move the
existing lists to the new system.  This will be a replacement system, so
the domain names will remain the same.

I used config_list on the old system to dump the configuration to a file,
and to import the configuration on the new system.  I moved the archive
messages over, and it looks like I can access them OK.  list_members and
add_members let me move the subscribers to the new system.

The only thing I think is left is individual subscriber configuration
options.  However, I don't see anything obvious for moving that over.  Any
hints?

    /dwight

-- 
Dwight N. Tovey
email: dwight at dtovey.net
web: http://www.dtovey.net/~dwight
-----------
Work to Live : Live to Ride : Ride to Work



From qmailb0y at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 24 05:07:14 2005
From: qmailb0y at yahoo.com (jay alvarez)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:07:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] some lists cannot receive emails after
	acrash(Incorrect padding)
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051021091040092188429841@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20051024030714.87145.qmail@web34014.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Mark,


> I think the offending list/lists has/have a corrupt
> digest.mbox file
> that was being written when the system crashed.
> Either that or a bad
> message has gotten into the file.
> 
> Look at lists/<list_name>/digest.mbox. The last
> message is probably
> truncated. If you move it aside and then run
> bin/unshunt to reprocess
> the messages in the shunt queue, things will
> probably get going
> normally again, but the initial messages in the old
> digest.mbox will
> be missing from the next digest. 

I need your help badly, after following your advice,
all of the old emails addressed to that particular
mailing list have been recent again... the amount is
enourmous that I have to stop the mailman and the
qmail processes in order to stop the unwanted
resending of emails. It wouldn't be that long til' our
bosses aproach us and... arrgh.. dont wanna think
about it now....

What should I do... the email server has just newly
been turned over to me by the former administrator and
I'm still trying to familiarize myself with various
components.. help me please....








> If this is important, you could try
> to edit digest.mbox and remove the offending message
> instead of moving
> the file aside.
> 
> If this is not the problem with the lists not
> processing, it may be
> that they are locked. Look in Mailman's locks/
> directory and manually
> remove the old lock files.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is
> for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use
> your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 



		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 24 05:44:40 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:44:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] some lists cannot receive emails after
	acrash(Incorrect padding)
In-Reply-To: <20051024030714.87145.qmail@web34014.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510232044400968e02b18f0@msapiro>

jay alvarez wrote:
>
>I need your help badly, after following your advice,
>all of the old emails addressed to that particular
>mailing list have been recent again... the amount is
>enourmous that I have to stop the mailman and the
>qmail processes in order to stop the unwanted
>resending of emails.


With Mailman and qmail stopped, look at the queues (qfiles/*). New
messages will not be arriving in qfiles/in, but there may be new,
unprocessed messages there. There may be unwanted messages in
qfiles/out and/or qfiles/retry and possibly still in qfiles/in. You
can view the messages in the queues (*.pck files) with
bin/show_qfiles, and just delete the ones you don't want (you could
have deleted unwanted messages from qfiles/shunt before running
bin/unshunt, but too late for that now).

Other messages may be queued in qmail. I fact, all the messages may
have already been delivered from Mailman to qmail. I don't know
specifically how to delete messages from qmail queues.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 24 05:58:24 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:58:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating lists from old system
In-Reply-To: <32913.192.168.68.97.1130122501.squirrel@192.168.68.97>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510232058240421e02b16bd@msapiro>

Dwight Tovey wrote:
>
>I have some lists running on a system with Mailman 2.0.13.  I have
>installed Mailman 2.1.6 on a new system and I would like to move the
>existing lists to the new system.  This will be a replacement system, so
>the domain names will remain the same.
>
>I used config_list on the old system to dump the configuration to a file,
>and to import the configuration on the new system.  I moved the archive
>messages over, and it looks like I can access them OK.  list_members and
>add_members let me move the subscribers to the new system.
>
>The only thing I think is left is individual subscriber configuration
>options.  However, I don't see anything obvious for moving that over.  Any
>hints?

The preferred method is to move the lists/listname/* files over, rather
than moving the list configuration and membership as you did.

I think you can still move the new lists/listname/config.pck and
config.pck.last files aside (don't delete them yet in case something
goes wrong), and move in the old lists/listname/config.db files. If
this works OK, you will have the list config and membership and member
options from the old lists. If not, you can move the config.pck files
back. There is really no other convenient way to move member options.

Note: You cannot leave the new config.pck files in the lists/listname/
directory or the old config.db files you move in will be ignored.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From maddoc at maddoc.net  Mon Oct 24 06:11:18 2005
From: maddoc at maddoc.net (Doc Schneider)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 23:11:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ascii error
Message-ID: <435C5EE6.4000901@maddoc.net>

I'm getting this error in logs/error

Oct 23 22:55:22 2005 (20244) Uncaught runner exception: 'ascii' codec 
can't decode byte 0xa0 in position 35: ordinal not in range(128)

And qfiles/shunt is catching a lot of messages in it.

Any ideas?

MM 2.1.6 Python 2.4.1 Sendmail 8.13.4

-Doc


From dwight at dtovey.net  Mon Oct 24 06:24:11 2005
From: dwight at dtovey.net (Dwight Tovey)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 22:24:11 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating lists from old system
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510232058240421e02b16bd@msapiro>
References: <32913.192.168.68.97.1130122501.squirrel@192.168.68.97>
	<PC1740200510232058240421e02b16bd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <33083.192.168.68.97.1130127851.squirrel@192.168.68.97>


Mark Sapiro said:
> Dwight Tovey wrote:
>>
>>I have some lists running on a system with Mailman 2.0.13.  I have
>>installed Mailman 2.1.6 on a new system and I would like to move the
>>existing lists to the new system.  This will be a replacement system, so
>>the domain names will remain the same.
>>
>>I used config_list on the old system to dump the configuration to a file,
>>and to import the configuration on the new system.  I moved the archive
>>messages over, and it looks like I can access them OK.  list_members and
>>add_members let me move the subscribers to the new system.
>>
>>The only thing I think is left is individual subscriber configuration
>>options.  However, I don't see anything obvious for moving that over.
>> Any
>>hints?
>
> The preferred method is to move the lists/listname/* files over, rather
> than moving the list configuration and membership as you did.
>

Not a problem.  I'm still running on the old system, so I can blow
everything away on the new system and start over (I should have said I
copied the archives instead of moved them).  Right now I'm just trying to
make sure that I have the procedures in place.  When I'm set I'll stop
smtp on the old system, transfer everything to the new system, and reset
the DNS pointers to the new one.  I want to make this as transparent as
possible for the users, so I'm testing the hell out of everything before I
make the switch.

Thanks for the info.  Will Mailman translate the config.db files to
config.pck?

    /dwight

-- 
Dwight N. Tovey
email: dwight at dtovey.net
web: http://www.dtovey.net/~dwight
-----------
In just two days, tomorrow will be yesterday.



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 24 06:29:42 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 21:29:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ascii error
In-Reply-To: <435C5EE6.4000901@maddoc.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402005102321294201877258ef05@msapiro>

Doc Schneider wrote:

>I'm getting this error in logs/error
>
>Oct 23 22:55:22 2005 (20244) Uncaught runner exception: 'ascii' codec 
>can't decode byte 0xa0 in position 35: ordinal not in range(128)
>
>And qfiles/shunt is catching a lot of messages in it.


There is a message with a non-ascii character (hex code a0 = iso-8859-1
small a acute), probably in a header. This could be in a series of
incoming messages, but more likely it is in a list's
lists/listname/digest.mbox file.

To be more specific, we need to see the traceback associated with the
above error.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From maddoc at maddoc.net  Mon Oct 24 06:34:16 2005
From: maddoc at maddoc.net (Doc Schneider)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 23:34:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ascii error
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005102321294201877258ef05@msapiro>
References: <PC17402005102321294201877258ef05@msapiro>
Message-ID: <435C6448.2090100@maddoc.net>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Doc Schneider wrote:
> 
> 
>>I'm getting this error in logs/error
>>
>>Oct 23 22:55:22 2005 (20244) Uncaught runner exception: 'ascii' codec 
>>can't decode byte 0xa0 in position 35: ordinal not in range(128)
>>
>>And qfiles/shunt is catching a lot of messages in it.
> 
> 
> 
> There is a message with a non-ascii character (hex code a0 = iso-8859-1
> small a acute), probably in a header. This could be in a series of
> incoming messages, but more likely it is in a list's
> lists/listname/digest.mbox file.
> 
> To be more specific, we need to see the traceback associated with the
> above error.
> 

Here's the Traceback:

Oct 23 22:55:22 2005 (20244) Uncaught runner exception: 'ascii' codec 
can't decode byte 0xa0 in position 35: ordinal not in range(128)
Oct 23 22:55:22 2005 (20244) Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 89, in _dispose
     mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 218, in 
ArchiveMail
     h.processUnixMailbox(f)
   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 612, in 
processUnixMailbox
     self.add_article(a)
   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 777, in 
add_article
     article.parentID = parentID = self.get_parent_info(arch, article)
   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 809, in 
get_parent_info
     article.subject)
   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 311, in 
getOldestArticle
     self.__openIndices(archive)
   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 251, in 
__openIndices
     t = DumbBTree(os.path.join(arcdir, archive + '-' + i))
   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 65, in 
__init__
     self.load()
   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 179, in load
     self.__sort(dirty=1)
   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 73, in __sort
     self.sorted.sort()
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xa0 in position 35: 
ordinal not in range(128)

Oct 23 22:55:22 2005 (20244) SHUNTING: 
1130126119.8497291+94c2ef28968b039ea63b6d6fca17c7e22e0d3c13

-Doc


From maddoc at maddoc.net  Mon Oct 24 06:53:09 2005
From: maddoc at maddoc.net (Doc Schneider)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 23:53:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ascii error
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005102321294201877258ef05@msapiro>
References: <PC17402005102321294201877258ef05@msapiro>
Message-ID: <435C68B5.2080305@maddoc.net>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Doc Schneider wrote:
> 
> 
>>I'm getting this error in logs/error
>>
>>Oct 23 22:55:22 2005 (20244) Uncaught runner exception: 'ascii' codec 
>>can't decode byte 0xa0 in position 35: ordinal not in range(128)
>>
>>And qfiles/shunt is catching a lot of messages in it.
> 
> 
> 
> There is a message with a non-ascii character (hex code a0 = iso-8859-1
> small a acute), probably in a header. This could be in a series of
> incoming messages, but more likely it is in a list's
> lists/listname/digest.mbox file.
> 
> To be more specific, we need to see the traceback associated with the
> above error.
> 

Mark,

I looked through the error log and this has been happening to just one 
list I have and been going on since the 19 Oct.

I also looked at the digest.mbox and there is only two in there.

Peeking at the shunt files there is some unprocessed spam in it from a 
while back, like a couple months ago. And about 200 files in there from 
this particular list.

Just wanted to fill you in on what I've found on my system.

-Doc


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 24 06:55:09 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 21:55:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating lists from old system
In-Reply-To: <33083.192.168.68.97.1130127851.squirrel@192.168.68.97>
Message-ID: <PC174020051023215509023416165c13@msapiro>

Dwight Tovey wrote:
>
>Mark Sapiro said:
>>
>> The preferred method is to move the lists/listname/* files over, rather
>> than moving the list configuration and membership as you did.
>>
>
>Not a problem.  I'm still running on the old system, so I can blow
>everything away on the new system and start over (I should have said I
>copied the archives instead of moved them).  Right now I'm just trying to
>make sure that I have the procedures in place.  When I'm set I'll stop
>smtp on the old system, transfer everything to the new system, and reset
>the DNS pointers to the new one.  I want to make this as transparent as
>possible for the users, so I'm testing the hell out of everything before I
>make the switch.
>
>Thanks for the info.  Will Mailman translate the config.db files to
>config.pck?

In your case, I'd recommend starting with just the site list on the new
system and then copying the lists/ and archives/ directories.

The new Mailman will automatically translate the old format files in
lists/ as they are used.

There may be a problem with pending requests (held messages, pending
subscriptions, etc.) if any. I'm not sure where these are in 2.0.13.
In 2.1.5, they moved from a global data/pending.pck file to individual
lists/listname/pending.pck files. If you upgraded a 2.0.13
installation to 2.1.6, the upgrade would take care of it, but I don't
know how you can 'move' this information from 2.0.13 to an already
installed 2.1.6. It would be best to deal with as many of these as
possible before the actual move.

And "testing the hell out of everything before" switching is definitely
the way to go.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From maddoc at maddoc.net  Mon Oct 24 07:05:58 2005
From: maddoc at maddoc.net (Doc Schneider)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 00:05:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating lists from old system
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051023215509023416165c13@msapiro>
References: <PC174020051023215509023416165c13@msapiro>
Message-ID: <435C6BB6.9070105@maddoc.net>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Dwight Tovey wrote:
> 
>>Mark Sapiro said:
>>
>>>The preferred method is to move the lists/listname/* files over, rather
>>>than moving the list configuration and membership as you did.
>>>
>>
>>Not a problem.  I'm still running on the old system, so I can blow
>>everything away on the new system and start over (I should have said I
>>copied the archives instead of moved them).  Right now I'm just trying to
>>make sure that I have the procedures in place.  When I'm set I'll stop
>>smtp on the old system, transfer everything to the new system, and reset
>>the DNS pointers to the new one.  I want to make this as transparent as
>>possible for the users, so I'm testing the hell out of everything before I
>>make the switch.
>>
>>Thanks for the info.  Will Mailman translate the config.db files to
>>config.pck?
> 
> 
> In your case, I'd recommend starting with just the site list on the new
> system and then copying the lists/ and archives/ directories.
> 
> The new Mailman will automatically translate the old format files in
> lists/ as they are used.
> 
> There may be a problem with pending requests (held messages, pending
> subscriptions, etc.) if any. I'm not sure where these are in 2.0.13.
> In 2.1.5, they moved from a global data/pending.pck file to individual
> lists/listname/pending.pck files. If you upgraded a 2.0.13
> installation to 2.1.6, the upgrade would take care of it, but I don't
> know how you can 'move' this information from 2.0.13 to an already
> installed 2.1.6. It would be best to deal with as many of these as
> possible before the actual move.
> 
> And "testing the hell out of everything before" switching is definitely
> the way to go.
> 

I moved a whole lot of my lists a few months back from MM 2.0.13 to MM 
2.1.4 then upgraded to 2.1.6 not long ago.

I went through the /admindb/ of all the moving lists and whacked 
anything held in there. Most of it was spam anyway.

Then moved just the /lists/listname and archive/private/listname/ and 
archive/private/listname.mbox/ to the new mailman then ran a little 
script I wrote and placed it /var/mailman:

# cat move-em.sh
#!/bin/sh
bin/withlist -l -r fix_url $1 --urlhost=lists.maddoc.net
bin/arch --wipe $1 archives/private/$1.mbox/$1.mbox
bin/genaliases | grep $1 >>/etc/mail/aliases
bin/genaliases >/u1/lists/aliases
chown -R mailman.mailman archives

running like this.
#./move-em.sh listname

it worked for me. YMMV of course.

And I did do a lot of testing before moving them!

-Doc (Who is getting a work out today posting on Mailman troubles)


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 24 07:20:59 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 22:20:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ascii error
In-Reply-To: <435C68B5.2080305@maddoc.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510232220590718eca9b289@msapiro>

Doc Schneider wrote:
>
>Here's the Traceback:
>
>Oct 23 22:55:22 2005 (20244) Uncaught runner exception: 'ascii' codec 
>can't decode byte 0xa0 in position 35: ordinal not in range(128)
>Oct 23 22:55:22 2005 (20244) Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
>     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
>     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 89, in _dispose
>     mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 218, in 
>ArchiveMail
>     h.processUnixMailbox(f)
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 612, in 
>processUnixMailbox
>     self.add_article(a)
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 777, in 
>add_article
>     article.parentID = parentID = self.get_parent_info(arch, article)
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 809, in 
>get_parent_info
>     article.subject)
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 311, in 
>getOldestArticle
>     self.__openIndices(archive)
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 251, in 
>__openIndices
>     t = DumbBTree(os.path.join(arcdir, archive + '-' + i))
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 65, in 
>__init__
>     self.load()
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 179, in load
>     self.__sort(dirty=1)
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 73, in __sort
>     self.sorted.sort()
>UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xa0 in position 35: 
>ordinal not in range(128)
>
>Oct 23 22:55:22 2005 (20244) SHUNTING: 
>1130126119.8497291+94c2ef28968b039ea63b6d6fca17c7e22e0d3c13

and:

>I looked through the error log and this has been happening to just one 
>list I have and been going on since the 19 Oct.
>
>I also looked at the digest.mbox and there is only two in there.
>
>Peeking at the shunt files there is some unprocessed spam in it from a 
>while back, like a couple months ago. And about 200 files in there from 
>this particular list.


The "unprocessed spam" files in qfiles/shunt should be deleted.

The traceback indicates it's not a digest.mbox problem. It is rather a
problem with the archive database for this list. The database is used
by pipermail to build the archive index files and appears to have
gotten something nasty in it (from the Subject: of a message?) on Oct
19.

I would look at the archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file
and see if I could find a problem, e.g. a Subject: header with an
acute a (or something encoded as hex a0). If I could find it, I'd fix
it. The next step is to rebuild the archive and figure out what to do
with the shunted messages. Since the archiver runs outside of normal
message delivery, and since the pipermail archiving comes after
archiving to the listname.mbox file, my guess is all the shunted
messages have been delivered to the list and are in the listname.mbox
file. If this is true, stop Mailman, fix the listname.mbox file and
rebuild the archive from listname.mbox with 'bin/arch --wipe
listname'. Then you can start Mailman and just delete all the files
from the shunt queue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From maddoc at maddoc.net  Mon Oct 24 07:33:20 2005
From: maddoc at maddoc.net (Doc Schneider)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 00:33:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ascii error
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510232220590718eca9b289@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200510232220590718eca9b289@msapiro>
Message-ID: <435C7220.6000609@maddoc.net>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Doc Schneider wrote:
> 
>>I looked through the error log and this has been happening to just one 
>>list I have and been going on since the 19 Oct.
>>
>>I also looked at the digest.mbox and there is only two in there.
>>
>>Peeking at the shunt files there is some unprocessed spam in it from a 
>>while back, like a couple months ago. And about 200 files in there from 
>>this particular list.
> 
> 
> 
> The "unprocessed spam" files in qfiles/shunt should be deleted.
> 
> The traceback indicates it's not a digest.mbox problem. It is rather a
> problem with the archive database for this list. The database is used
> by pipermail to build the archive index files and appears to have
> gotten something nasty in it (from the Subject: of a message?) on Oct
> 19.
> 
> I would look at the archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file
> and see if I could find a problem, e.g. a Subject: header with an
> acute a (or something encoded as hex a0). If I could find it, I'd fix
> it. The next step is to rebuild the archive and figure out what to do
> with the shunted messages. Since the archiver runs outside of normal
> message delivery, and since the pipermail archiving comes after
> archiving to the listname.mbox file, my guess is all the shunted
> messages have been delivered to the list and are in the listname.mbox
> file. If this is true, stop Mailman, fix the listname.mbox file and
> rebuild the archive from listname.mbox with 'bin/arch --wipe
> listname'. Then you can start Mailman and just delete all the files
> from the shunt queue.
> 

Mark,

Subject: [UHS] =?iso-8859-1?q?B=D6C=3A__knees_or_feet=3F?=


This this would be the one?

-Doc


From xma at uclink.berkeley.edu  Mon Oct 24 07:41:06 2005
From: xma at uclink.berkeley.edu (Xiaoyan Ma)
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 22:41:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] get all lists' subscribe_policy
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510232220590718eca9b289@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200510232220590718eca9b289@msapiro>
Message-ID: <web-12045807@calmail-be2.berkeley.edu>

I need a script that gets all lists' subscribe_policy/unsubscribe_policy and outputs to a file. 
 Similar to lists_admins, but instead of getting administrator's email address, it gets 
subscribe_policy.  I looked into MailList.py, config_list, list_lists and withlist ... but have 
not figured out how to do it.  Can someone point me to the right direction?
Thanks.
Xiaoyan


From saulius at azuolas.org  Mon Oct 24 08:05:14 2005
From: saulius at azuolas.org (Saulius)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:05:14 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachments are not scrubbed
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510211418050093fef8f0e2@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200510211418050093fef8f0e2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <435C799A.3000009@azuolas.org>

Hello,

> messages sent to non-digest subscribers. If this was the case in your
> 2.1.4, you must have had a local patch to do it which was 'removed'
> when you upgraded to 2.1.5.

Hm, I don't remember exactly the version of mailman but it really worked 
'out of box'.

> if not GLOBAL_PIPELINE.count('Scrubber'):
>     GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(GLOBAL_PIPELINE.index('MimeDel') + 1,
>                            'Scrubber')

Thanks. I put it into mm_cfg.py and everything works agains: attachments 
are scrubbed from non-digest mails.


Bye,
Saylius


From klara.schirova at bankwatch.org  Mon Oct 24 11:03:50 2005
From: klara.schirova at bankwatch.org (Klara Schirova)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:03:50 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] general subscription and removal
Message-ID: <435CA376.7090807@bankwatch.org>

Hi,
I am administering around 50 mailing conferences under  Mailman 2.1.5. 
How can I easily subscribe/remove a person to/ from other mailing lists 
for which he wants to be/is a member? So far I have done so manually - 
by a/ subscribing the person to each list separately b/ listing the 
person?s other subscriptions and unsubscribing him from the lists one by 
one -  but this is very time-consuming.
Thanks a lot, Klara



From ksg1000 at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 24 11:45:25 2005
From: ksg1000 at hotmail.com (kate griffiths)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:45:25 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing
Message-ID: <BAY101-F24C773DBB7B9F7A092EB2DB1770@phx.gbl>

Hi
Can anyone give me some advice about the bounce processing function of the 
mailman lists?  Can I configure the list so that it does not automatically 
disable/unsubscribe people for excessive bounces?  Should this be done by 
switching to 'no' in the section that asks 'Should mailman perform automatic 
bounce processing for the list'?  Does this have any adverse effects other 
than not telling me when a message does not reach certain members of the 
list?  If replies could come to this email address rather than the whole 
list, that would be much appreciated.
Thanks.
Kate.




From hannah at schlund.de  Mon Oct 24 12:52:32 2005
From: hannah at schlund.de (Hannah Schroeter)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:52:32 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ISO-8859-1/Latin1 vs UTF-8
In-Reply-To: <1130104717.3960.99.camel@gimli.at.home>
References: <1130104717.3960.99.camel@gimli.at.home>
Message-ID: <20051024105232.GB28360@schlund.de>

Hello!

On Sun, Oct 23, 2005 at 11:58:37PM +0200, Bernd Petrovitsch wrote:
>Apparently all of the German translation of Mailman is in ISO-8859-1 (or
>ISO-8859-15) - at least in the standard Debian mailman package.

>Is there a special reason for not moving to UTF-8 in general?

I'd say: YAGNI (Ya ain't gonna need it). If the charset is declared
correctly, it isn't worse for German text. And it has less overhead
then.

>	Bernd

Kind regards,

Hannah.


From bernd at firmix.at  Mon Oct 24 13:04:13 2005
From: bernd at firmix.at (Bernd Petrovitsch)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 13:04:13 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ISO-8859-1/Latin1 vs UTF-8
In-Reply-To: <20051024105232.GB28360@schlund.de>
References: <1130104717.3960.99.camel@gimli.at.home>
	<20051024105232.GB28360@schlund.de>
Message-ID: <1130151853.22348.63.camel@tara.firmix.at>

On Mon, 2005-10-24 at 12:52 +0200, Hannah Schroeter wrote:
[...]
> On Sun, Oct 23, 2005 at 11:58:37PM +0200, Bernd Petrovitsch wrote:
> >Apparently all of the German translation of Mailman is in ISO-8859-1 (or
> >ISO-8859-15) - at least in the standard Debian mailman package.
> 
> >Is there a special reason for not moving to UTF-8 in general?
> 
> I'd say: YAGNI (Ya ain't gonna need it). If the charset is declared

If I don't need it, I do not care.

> correctly, it isn't worse for German text. And it has less overhead
> then.

The problem is that I enter text in the web-interface on a default UTF-8
system and it is apparently stored as UTF-8. The pages are delivered as
ISO-8859-1 according to the HTTP  header and the header in the file.
So the CGI scripts actually should convert correctly the ML-admins data
from the given charset into ISO-8859-1 (which is not 100% possible but
for German and in practice it will be good enough IMO).
The other solution is to use &ouml; and brothers and blame the ML admin
if he doesn't do so (and put in somwhere into the docs or so).

There is BTW a similar problem: If I enter " (quotes) in the web
interface, they are converted to &quot; (probably by the browser - I
didn't check) and then sent out in a plain/text email.

So in both cases I actually want to know what the way to go is.

	Bernd
-- 
Firmix Software GmbH                   http://www.firmix.at/
mobil: +43 664 4416156                 fax: +43 1 7890849-55
          Embedded Linux Development and Services



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Oct 24 16:19:11 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:19:11 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ISO-8859-1/Latin1 vs UTF-8
In-Reply-To: <1130151853.22348.63.camel@tara.firmix.at>
References: <1130104717.3960.99.camel@gimli.at.home>
	<20051024105232.GB28360@schlund.de>
	<1130151853.22348.63.camel@tara.firmix.at>
Message-ID: <p06200701bf829d481764@[10.0.1.210]>

At 1:04 PM +0200 2005-10-24, Bernd Petrovitsch wrote:

>  The other solution is to use &ouml; and brothers and blame the ML admin
>  if he doesn't do so (and put in somwhere into the docs or so).
>
>  There is BTW a similar problem: If I enter " (quotes) in the web
>  interface, they are converted to &quot; (probably by the browser - I
>  didn't check) and then sent out in a plain/text email.

	These two are actually a result of the same thing -- the Mailman 
code scrubs input text from the web interface, to try to prevent 
cross-site scripting attacks.  If you want this stuff to show up 
correctly, you will need to edit the template files directly as 
opposed to using the web interface.

	If you go back and use the web interface to edit that text again, 
it will get re-scrubbed, so once you go the template route, you need 
to stick with editing those files directly.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From par at hunter-gatherer.org  Mon Oct 24 16:54:06 2005
From: par at hunter-gatherer.org (Par Leijonhufvud)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:54:06 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Qmail trouble
Message-ID: <20051024145406.GW5443@absaroka.eryn-lasgalen.org>

I'm trying to get mailman running under FreeBSD 5.4.  I'm using qmail as
the MTA, and appears to be unable to make it actually deliver any mail.
When a message is sent to the list I get the following in maillog:

Oct 24 16:42:56 ia qmail: 1130164976.495580 new msg 262
Oct 24 16:42:56 ia qmail: 1130164976.496106 info msg 262: bytes 877 from <pkg at absaroka.hunter-gatherer.org> qp 49909 uid 82
Oct 24 16:42:56 ia qmail: 1130164976.498677 starting delivery 47: msg 262 to local testlist at ia.serverdomain.tld
Oct 24 16:42:56 ia qmail: 1130164976.498866 status: local 1/10 remote 0/20
Oct 24 16:42:56 ia qmail: 1130164976.672177 delivery 47: success: did_0+0+1/
Oct 24 16:42:56 ia qmail: 1130164976.672779 status: local 0/10 remote 0/20
Oct 24 16:42:56 ia qmail: 1130164976.673287 end msg 262

No attempts to deliver mail to the list members, but the mails appear in
the list archive.

I *think* I've followed all instructions on
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/qmail-issues.html,
but must have missed something.

/Par

-- 
Par Leijonhufvud                               par at hunter-gatherer.org
This e-mail is confidential and solely for the use of the intended
recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are obligated to
kill yourself and others who might have seen it immediately. Thank you.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 24 16:55:45 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 07:55:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ascii error
In-Reply-To: <435C7220.6000609@maddoc.net>
Message-ID: <PC174020051024075545010990a9ee3a@msapiro>

Doc Schneider wrote:
>
>Subject: [UHS] =?iso-8859-1?q?B=D6C=3A__knees_or_feet=3F?=
>
>
>This this would be the one?


Probably not. That is a properly RFC 2047 encoded subject that says

  B?C:__knees_or_feet?

The literal subject itself does not contain any non-ascii data and the
decoded subject does not contain ?.

If as I suspect, the listname.mbox is current, but the HTML archive
ends on Oct 19, the offending message is either the last one in the
HTML archive (i.e. archives/private/listname/2005-October/nnnnnn.html
where nnnnnn is the highest number there) or the first one after that.
However, it may be the case that they all have nnnnnn.html files in
which case it may only be the subject, date and thread .html files
that are truncated.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hannah at schlund.de  Mon Oct 24 17:00:56 2005
From: hannah at schlund.de (Hannah Schroeter)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:00:56 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ascii error
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051024075545010990a9ee3a@msapiro>
References: <435C7220.6000609@maddoc.net>
	<PC174020051024075545010990a9ee3a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20051024150055.GC21811@schlund.de>

Hello!

On Mon, Oct 24, 2005 at 07:55:45AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>Doc Schneider wrote:

>>Subject: [UHS] =?iso-8859-1?q?B=D6C=3A__knees_or_feet=3F?=

>>This this would be the one?

>Probably not. That is a properly RFC 2047 encoded subject that says

>  B?C:__knees_or_feet?

No, it says
  B?C:  knees or feet?

_ is a substitute for space in "q" encoding.

See section 4.2, no. (2), in RFC 2047.

It's used, because spaces are frequent in encoded headers and unencoded
spaces aren't allowed in an encoded-word.
  
>[...]

Kind regards,

Hannah.


From dwight at dtovey.net  Mon Oct 24 17:03:47 2005
From: dwight at dtovey.net (Dwight Tovey)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:03:47 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Qmail trouble
In-Reply-To: <20051024145406.GW5443@absaroka.eryn-lasgalen.org>
References: <20051024145406.GW5443@absaroka.eryn-lasgalen.org>
Message-ID: <46774.216.190.144.90.1130166227.squirrel@216.190.144.90>


Par Leijonhufvud said:
> I'm trying to get mailman running under FreeBSD 5.4.  I'm using qmail as
> the MTA, and appears to be unable to make it actually deliver any mail.
> When a message is sent to the list I get the following in maillog:
>
> Oct 24 16:42:56 ia qmail: 1130164976.495580 new msg 262
> Oct 24 16:42:56 ia qmail: 1130164976.496106 info msg 262: bytes 877 from
> <pkg at absaroka.hunter-gatherer.org> qp 49909 uid 82
> Oct 24 16:42:56 ia qmail: 1130164976.498677 starting delivery 47: msg 262
> to local testlist at ia.serverdomain.tld
> Oct 24 16:42:56 ia qmail: 1130164976.498866 status: local 1/10 remote 0/20
> Oct 24 16:42:56 ia qmail: 1130164976.672177 delivery 47: success:
> did_0+0+1/
> Oct 24 16:42:56 ia qmail: 1130164976.672779 status: local 0/10 remote 0/20
> Oct 24 16:42:56 ia qmail: 1130164976.673287 end msg 262
>
> No attempts to deliver mail to the list members, but the mails appear in
> the list archive.
>
> I *think* I've followed all instructions on
> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/qmail-issues.html,
> but must have missed something.
>

Look in the Mailman error log: <mailmaninstallpath>/logs/error.

I was seeing something like that when I had MM misconfigured.  Qmail was
delivering the message, but MM was choking.  The MM error log showed me
what was going on (once Mark Sapiro gave me some hints on how to read it).

    /dwight

-- 
Dwight N. Tovey
email: dwight at dtovey.net
web: http://www.dtovey.net/~dwight
-----------
I don't get even, I get odder.



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 24 17:11:33 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 08:11:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ascii error
In-Reply-To: <20051024150055.GC21811@schlund.de>
Message-ID: <PC174020051024081133079677bf7a1d@msapiro>

Hannah Schroeter wrote:
>
>No, it says
>  B=CDC:  knees or feet?
>
>_ is a substitute for space in "q" encoding.


Of course you are correct. Thank you.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 24 17:53:04 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 08:53:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] get all lists' subscribe_policy
In-Reply-To: <web-12045807@calmail-be2.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402005102408530403752d8b26bb@msapiro>

Xiaoyan Ma wrote:

>I need a script that gets all lists' subscribe_policy/unsubscribe_policy and outputs to a file. 
> Similar to lists_admins, but instead of getting administrator's email address, it gets 
>subscribe_policy.  I looked into MailList.py, config_list, list_lists and withlist ... but have 
>not figured out how to do it.  Can someone point me to the right direction?

Since you want something similar to list_admins, look at that. In
particular find

       owners = COMMASPACE.join(mlist.owner)
       print _('List: %(listname)s, \tOwners: %(owners)s')

You don't need COMMASPACE.join(mlist.owner) because subscribe policy is
a number, not a list of e-mail addresses, but if you are going to use
the i18n._ method you do have to assign mlist.subscribe_policy to a
variable or you can just

       print 'List: %s, \tPolicy: %d' % (listname,
                                         mlist.subscribe_policy)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 24 18:02:44 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:02:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] general subscription and removal
In-Reply-To: <435CA376.7090807@bankwatch.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402005102409024401872d8b2627@msapiro>

Klara Schirova wrote:

>I am administering around 50 mailing conferences under  Mailman 2.1.5. 
>How can I easily subscribe/remove a person to/ from other mailing lists 
>for which he wants to be/is a member? So far I have done so manually - 
>by a/ subscribing the person to each list separately b/ listing the 
>person's other subscriptions and unsubscribing him from the lists one by
>one -  but this is very time-consuming.
>Thanks a lot, Klara

If you have command line access, you may be able to create a shell
script using bin/add_members and bin/remove_members to help.
Otherwise, there's not much you can do.

It's really easier if the users are responsible for subscribing and
unsubscribing themselves.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 24 18:27:12 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:27:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-F24C773DBB7B9F7A092EB2DB1770@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510240927120078be6b877a@msapiro>

kate griffiths wrote:

>Can anyone give me some advice about the bounce processing function of the 
>mailman lists?  Can I configure the list so that it does not automatically 
>disable/unsubscribe people for excessive bounces?  Should this be done by 
>switching to 'no' in the section that asks 'Should mailman perform automatic 
>bounce processing for the list'?


Yes.

You could also set bounce_info_stale_after to zero. This would have the
advantage of continuing to log the bounces in Mailman's bounce log,
while discarding yesterday's bounces so the threshold is never
reached. If you can't view the log, this probably doesn't matter.


>Does this have any adverse effects other 
>than not telling me when a message does not reach certain members of the 
>list?


Yes. If you continue to mail dead addresses, some ISPs will eventually
start blocking all your mail.

If you are having problems with people being disabled who "shouldn't"
be, say because they tend to have full mailboxes for long periods, it
is better to adjust the various bounce processing parameters for a
satisfactory result by perhaps increasing the threshold and the number
of warnings.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jdennis at redhat.com  Mon Oct 24 18:49:35 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:49:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restart Mailman and IP help
In-Reply-To: <BF8055D8.E511%aff@mlbox.com>
References: <BF8055D8.E511%aff@mlbox.com>
Message-ID: <1130172575.20058.45.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Sat, 2005-10-22 at 20:47 +0800, ML wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I paid to have Mailman installed on my DirectAdmin CentOS server a few
> months ago, recently I had to change the server hostname and IP and Mailman
> no longer sends out emails! (the people that originally installed Mailman
> will fix the problem if I pay for a one hour support charge, but I believe
> it is just a matter of updating to the new IP or hostname)
> 
> Also:
> 1) I can?t find the mm_cfg.py file! Where should it be?
> 2) how exactly do I restart mailman, what directory must I be in?
> 
> Does anyone know where on Mailman or server I need to enter/change the new
> IP or hostname?

CentOS is a repackaging of Red Hat Enterprise Linux, assuming your
consultant installed the Red Hat mailman rpm then the mailman source
files are in /usr/lib/mailman/Mailman. mm_cfg.py is also sym linked
from /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py. You could also locate the files via "rpm
-ql mailman" or by reading /usr/share/doc/mailman-*/INSTALL.REDHAT
(unless CentOS changed the name, they are required to remove all
branding).

The mm_cfg we ship derives the host name from the socket networking
code, you don't have to explicitly set it in mm_cfg. However, if you
created a list and then changed the hostname you'll have to fix the
lists you already created because that information is embedded in the
list after creation. The mailman FAQ covers this topic in detail.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 24 18:52:24 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:52:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ISO-8859-1/Latin1 vs UTF-8
In-Reply-To: <1130151853.22348.63.camel@tara.firmix.at>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510240952240406fc414c0e@msapiro>

Bernd Petrovitsch wrote:
>
>The problem is that I enter text in the web-interface on a default UTF-8
>system and it is apparently stored as UTF-8. The pages are delivered as
>ISO-8859-1 according to the HTTP  header and the header in the file.
>So the CGI scripts actually should convert correctly the ML-admins data
>from the given charset into ISO-8859-1 (which is not 100% possible but
>for German and in practice it will be good enough IMO).
>The other solution is to use &ouml; and brothers and blame the ML admin
>if he doesn't do so (and put in somwhere into the docs or so).
>
>There is BTW a similar problem: If I enter " (quotes) in the web
>interface, they are converted to &quot; (probably by the browser - I
>didn't check) and then sent out in a plain/text email.
>
>So in both cases I actually want to know what the way to go is.

As Brad points out in another reply, some of this problem is because
all text entered in the web interface (except for General
Options->info which is a special case) is HTML escaped to prevent XSS
attacks. Mailman arguably goes overboard on this, but the 4 characters
'&' '<' '>' and '"' are changed respectively to &amp;, &lt;, &gt; and
&quot; by Python's cgi.escape() method.

Thus, you can't even enter &ouml; and have it work in HTML or plain
text.

You can convert Mailman to use utf-8 for German language, but this will
not solve the html escaping issue. If you are interested in converting
to utf-8, there is relevant information in the archives of this list.
See the thread beginning at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-September/046467.html
and continued at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-September/046480.html
and the thread beginning at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-October/046850.html
and continued at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-October/046883.html
and
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-October/046938.html

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 24 19:04:27 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 10:04:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Qmail trouble
In-Reply-To: <46774.216.190.144.90.1130166227.squirrel@216.190.144.90>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510241004270453b20cfaa0@msapiro>

Dwight Tovey wrote:
>
>Par Leijonhufvud said:
>> I'm trying to get mailman running under FreeBSD 5.4.  I'm using qmail as
>> the MTA, and appears to be unable to make it actually deliver any mail.
<snip>
>> No attempts to deliver mail to the list members, but the mails appear in
>> the list archive.
>>
>> I *think* I've followed all instructions on
>> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/qmail-issues.html,
>> but must have missed something.
>>
>
>Look in the Mailman error log: <mailmaninstallpath>/logs/error.
>
>I was seeing something like that when I had MM misconfigured.  Qmail was
>delivering the message, but MM was choking.  The MM error log showed me
>what was going on (once Mark Sapiro gave me some hints on how to read it).

(thanks)

In this case, the mail gets to the archive so it has been delivered to
Mailman and processing has gotten fairly far along, but the mail isn't
going back out.

Does any mail go out, e.g. subscription confirmations or other notices?
If not, it is likely an outgoing mail problem. Look in Mailman's smtp
and smtp-failure logs in addition to the error log.

If some mail goes out, but not posts, maybe everyone is on digest and
no digest has been sent yet.

Also, go to the FAQ wizard
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
and search for 'troubleshooting' or 'no mail' (without quotes).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From bernd at firmix.at  Mon Oct 24 20:05:00 2005
From: bernd at firmix.at (Bernd Petrovitsch)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:05:00 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ISO-8859-1/Latin1 vs UTF-8
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510240952240406fc414c0e@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200510240952240406fc414c0e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1130177101.16001.7.camel@tara.firmix.at>

On Mon, 2005-10-24 at 09:52 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
[...]
> As Brad points out in another reply, some of this problem is because
> all text entered in the web interface (except for General
> Options->info which is a special case) is HTML escaped to prevent XSS
> attacks. Mailman arguably goes overboard on this, but the 4 characters

Which is a good thing.

> '&' '<' '>' and '"' are changed respectively to &amp;, &lt;, &gt; and
> &quot; by Python's cgi.escape() method.

Makes sense.
Hmm, mailman could replace that four chars with the ASCII chars just for
plain/text parts od sent out emails. That should not open any security
hole and yield real plain/text.

> Thus, you can't even enter &ouml; and have it work in HTML or plain
> text.

Yes, of course, these are two distinct issues. Sorry for confusion.

> You can convert Mailman to use utf-8 for German language, but this will
> not solve the html escaping issue. If you are interested in converting
> to utf-8, there is relevant information in the archives of this list.

I actually reported a bug (though it may not sound so): I enter
(apparently) UTF-8 text (with Firefox it that is important) and it comes
back disguised (and as part of) ISO-8859-1 text.
The question is: Which part is doing something wrong and how to fix it?

	Bernd
-- 
Firmix Software GmbH                   http://www.firmix.at/
mobil: +43 664 4416156                 fax: +43 1 7890849-55
          Embedded Linux Development and Services



From par at hunter-gatherer.org  Mon Oct 24 20:36:58 2005
From: par at hunter-gatherer.org (Par Leijonhufvud)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:36:58 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Qmail trouble
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510241004270453b20cfaa0@msapiro>
References: <46774.216.190.144.90.1130166227.squirrel@216.190.144.90>
	<PC1740200510241004270453b20cfaa0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20051024183658.GX5443@absaroka.eryn-lasgalen.org>

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> [2005.10.24] wrote:
> >Look in the Mailman error log: <mailmaninstallpath>/logs/error.

Nothing (except when I made a spelling error on the listname).

> In this case, the mail gets to the archive so it has been delivered to
> Mailman and processing has gotten fairly far along, but the mail isn't
> going back out.
> 
> Does any mail go out, e.g. subscription confirmations or other notices?
> If not, it is likely an outgoing mail problem. Look in Mailman's smtp
> and smtp-failure logs in addition to the error log.

Nope, no mail goes out.

In the smtp-error log I find

Oct 24 15:52:24 2005 (46216) delivery to par at hunter-gatherer.org failed
with code 553: sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts
(#5.7.1)

Ahh, a relaying problem. I'll mess with the MTA config some more.

Thanks for the help!

/Par

-- 
Par Leijonhufvud                               par at hunter-gatherer.org
Sooner murder an infant in its cradle than nurse unacted desires
		-- William Blake


From maddoc at maddoc.net  Mon Oct 24 22:27:12 2005
From: maddoc at maddoc.net (Doc Schneider)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 15:27:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ascii error
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051024081133079677bf7a1d@msapiro>
References: <PC174020051024081133079677bf7a1d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <435D43A0.3040400@maddoc.net>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Hannah Schroeter wrote:
> 
>>No, it says
>> B=CDC:  knees or feet?
>>
>>_ is a substitute for space in "q" encoding.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you are correct. Thank you.
> 

Just wanted you all to know I removed that message and now the list is 
archiving fine.

I did as you suggested Mark and looked at where the archives stopped and 
also where the shunts/ started and for some reason it all pointed to 
that particular message.

Removed it and rebuild the archives and tested the list and all is now 
well..

Thanks,

-Doc


From mclister at zeesource.net  Mon Oct 24 22:57:40 2005
From: mclister at zeesource.net (Claire McLister)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 13:57:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Map of mailman users (OT)
Message-ID: <3c46998ea56e8126a38558a80933fb47@zeesource.net>

Hi,

  We've developed an automatic email mapping capability from Google Maps 
API.

  To try it out, we mapped origins of emails to this group from October 
3, 2005 through October 14th.

The result of this map is at:  
http://www.zeesource.net/maps/map.do?group=473

  Would like to hear what you think of it.

  Best wishes

Claire

  --
  Claire McLister ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  mclister at zeesource.net
  1684 Nightingale Avenue ? ??Suite 201
  Sunnyvale, CA 94087? ? ? ?     408-733-2737(fax)

                      http://www.zeesource.net



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 24 23:05:23 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 14:05:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ISO-8859-1/Latin1 vs UTF-8
In-Reply-To: <1130177101.16001.7.camel@tara.firmix.at>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510241405230609a1d21f18@msapiro>

Bernd Petrovitsch wrote:
>
>I actually reported a bug (though it may not sound so): I enter
>(apparently) UTF-8 text (with Firefox it that is important) and it comes
>back disguised (and as part of) ISO-8859-1 text.
>The question is: Which part is doing something wrong and how to fix it?

What happens here is that Mailman creates the web page with the META
tag in the header

<META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=xxxx">

where xxxx is the encoding of the language of the list (default
iso-8859-1 for German), but the web server sends its own http
Content-Type: header specifying charset=utf-8. For reasons I don't
understand, the HTML standard says the server provided Content-Type:
charset takes priority over that specified by an HTML META tag.

Thus your browser sets it's encoding as utf-8, but mailman thinks what
it gets back is iso-8859-1 and thus garbles the multibyte unicode
sequences.

It can be fixed by setting the 'German' character set to utf-8 and
recoding the German language templates, messages and list archives in
utf-8 as discussed in the archive threads I mentioned previously.

Alternatively, it can be addressed in the web server by configuring it
so it doesn't specify these documents as utf-8.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kalin at el.net  Tue Oct 25 01:13:56 2005
From: kalin at el.net (kalin mintchev)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:13:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce-events
Message-ID: <55731.68.165.89.73.1130195636.squirrel@mail.el.net>


hi all...


i found (and deleted) a bunch of relatively big bounce-events-* files
under the data directory.

on line i found a  posting citing:
- your bounce queue runner isn't running
as a possible reason for why these files are piling up there.

i do have the qrunner on but which one is the "bounce queue runner"?!

thanks....


-- 




From kalin at el.net  Tue Oct 25 01:43:36 2005
From: kalin at el.net (kalin mintchev)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:43:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce-events
In-Reply-To: <65E182DE-C639-45DF-92C2-09395525E52B@memphis.edu>
References: <55731.68.165.89.73.1130195636.squirrel@mail.el.net>   
	<65E182DE-C639-45DF-92C2-09395525E52B@memphis.edu>
Message-ID: <55799.68.165.89.73.1130197416.squirrel@mail.el.net>


have all of those except 'runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s'

?!??!?!

thanks...



>> i do have the qrunner on but which one is the "bounce queue runner"?!
>
> ps -aux | grep qrunner
> mailman    253   0.0  1.4    33284  12792  ??  S    13Oct05
> 12:49.98 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --
> runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman    254   0.0  1.0    31684   9592  ??  S    13Oct05
> 7:39.19 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --
> runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman    255   0.0  1.0    31684   9456  ??  S    13Oct05
> 6:32.72 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --
> runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman    256   0.0  1.1    31964  10408  ??  S    13Oct05
> 12:23.22 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --
> runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman    257   0.0  0.8    30260   7112  ??  S    13Oct05
> 6:18.44 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --
> runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman    258   0.0  1.7    37600  15512  ??  S    13Oct05
> 33:56.42 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --
> runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman    259   0.0  1.0    31688   9500  ??  S    13Oct05
> 7:50.87 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --
> runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
> mailman    260   0.0  0.8    30260   7068  ??  S    13Oct05
> 0:01.80 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --
> runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
>
> The second in this list.
>
> Dan
>


-- 






From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 25 02:34:55 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 17:34:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce-events
In-Reply-To: <55731.68.165.89.73.1130195636.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510241734550234579dcc21@msapiro>

kalin mintchev wrote:
>
>i found (and deleted) a bunch of relatively big bounce-events-* files
>under the data directory.
>
>on line i found a  posting citing:
>- your bounce queue runner isn't running
>as a possible reason for why these files are piling up there.
>
>i do have the qrunner on but which one is the "bounce queue runner"?!


I see from your followup that you determined that the bounce runner has
died. This could cause at most one orphaned bounce-events-nnnnn.pck
file. These files, where nnnnn is the pid of the bounce runner are
both written and periodically processed and deleted by the bounce
runner, so if the bounce runner is not running, new files won't be
created and at most one file can be left behind.

When the bounce runner is restarted (via Mailman being restarted or
whatever), it likely gets a new pid so the old file is orphaned.
Clearly this has happened more than once in your case as you had
several orphaned files.

There may be entries in Mailman's qrunner log noting when the bounce
runner died and there may be associated error log entries that might
help determine why.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kalin at el.net  Tue Oct 25 03:06:12 2005
From: kalin at el.net (kalin mintchev)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:06:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce-events
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510241734550234579dcc21@msapiro>
References: <55731.68.165.89.73.1130195636.squirrel@mail.el.net>   
	<PC1740200510241734550234579dcc21@msapiro>
Message-ID: <55926.68.165.89.73.1130202372.squirrel@mail.el.net>


> There may be entries in Mailman's qrunner log noting when the bounce
>runner died and there may be associated error log entries that might
help > >determine why.

hi Mark...

here is the log for the last restart of mailman today... there isn't
anything about BounceRunner. i used mailmanctl...


Oct 24 16:02:27 2005 (1097) Master watcher caught SIGINT.  Restarting. Oct
24 16:02:27 2005 (2031) ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGINT.  Stopping. Oct
24 16:02:27 2005 (2031) ArchRunner qrunner exiting.
Oct 24 16:02:27 2005 (2030) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGINT.  Stopping.
Oct 24 16:02:27 2005 (2030) RetryRunner qrunner exiting.
Oct 24 16:02:27 2005 (2035) CommandRunner qrunner caught SIGINT.
Stopping.
Oct 24 16:02:27 2005 (2035) CommandRunner qrunner exiting.
Oct 24 16:02:27 2005 (2034) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGINT.  Stopping.
Oct 24 16:02:27 2005 (2034) VirginRunner qrunner exiting.
Oct 24 16:02:27 2005 (2033) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGINT.  Stopping.
Oct 24 16:02:27 2005 (2033) NewsRunner qrunner exiting.
Oct 24 16:02:27 2005 (2032) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGINT.  Stopping.
Oct 24 16:02:27 2005 (2032) OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting.
Oct 24 16:02:27 2005 (2029) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGINT.  Stopping.
Oct 24 16:02:27 2005 (2029) IncomingRunner qrunner exiting.
Oct 24 16:02:28 2005 (1097) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit (pid:
2031, sig: None, sts: 2, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting] Oct
24 16:02:28 2005 (1097) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit (pid:
2035, sig: None, sts: 2, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1)
[restarting]
Oct 24 16:02:28 2005 (1097) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit (pid:
2034, sig: None, sts: 2, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1)
[restarting]
Oct 24 16:02:28 2005 (1097) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit (pid:
2032, sig: None, sts: 2, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1)
[restarting]
Oct 24 16:02:28 2005 (1097) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit (pid:
2030, sig: None, sts: 2, class: RetryRunner, slice: 1/1)
[restarting]
Oct 24 16:02:28 2005 (1097) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit (pid:
2029, sig: None, sts: 2, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)
[restarting]
Oct 24 16:02:28 2005 (1097) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit (pid:
2033, sig: None, sts: 2, class: NewsRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting] Oct
24 16:02:39 2005 (2049) CommandRunner qrunner started.
Oct 24 16:02:39 2005 (2048) ArchRunner qrunner started.
Oct 24 16:02:39 2005 (2053) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Oct 24 16:02:39 2005 (2052) RetryRunner qrunner started.
Oct 24 16:02:39 2005 (2050) VirginRunner qrunner started.
Oct 24 16:02:39 2005 (2051) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
Oct 24 16:02:40 2005 (2054) NewsRunner qrunner started.







From msapiro at value.net  Tue Oct 25 03:17:13 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 18:17:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce-events
In-Reply-To: <55926.68.165.89.73.1130202372.squirrel@mail.el.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510241817130640bec3364d@msapiro>

kalin mintchev wrote:
>
>here is the log for the last restart of mailman today... there isn't
>anything about BounceRunner. i used mailmanctl...

I think that's because you did 'restart' and mailmanctl only restarted
those runners that were there.

What happens if you do 'stop' and then 'start'?

Also, are there any prior entries mentioning BounceRunner between the
last time it started and now?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dwight at dtovey.net  Tue Oct 25 05:09:21 2005
From: dwight at dtovey.net (Dwight Tovey)
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:09:21 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating lists from old system
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051023215509023416165c13@msapiro>
References: <33083.192.168.68.97.1130127851.squirrel@192.168.68.97>
	<PC174020051023215509023416165c13@msapiro>
Message-ID: <32892.192.168.68.199.1130209761.squirrel@192.168.68.199>


Mark Sapiro said:
>
> In your case, I'd recommend starting with just the site list on the new
> system and then copying the lists/ and archives/ directories.
>
> The new Mailman will automatically translate the old format files in
> lists/ as they are used.
>


Well, damn.  That was too easy.  I was going through all that
export/import stuff because I figured that's what I would have to do to
keep from bringing a bunch of old cruft with me.  Never occurred to me
that all I had to do was move the files over.  Spent too much time moving
database systems around I guess.

Thanks for your help.

    /dwight
-- 
Dwight N. Tovey
email: dwight at dtovey.net
web: http://www.dtovey.net/~dwight
-----------
Caution - Objects on Calendar are closer than they appear.



From cuschieridaniel at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 25 08:33:31 2005
From: cuschieridaniel at hotmail.com (Daniel Cuschieri)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:33:31 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Host not found
Message-ID: <BAY112-DAV15EB401E50BAF4597E2EA7BD760@phx.gbl>

Hi guys!

 

My friend has a home server and I use web / mail server services from him.
He also uses mailman to provide mailing lists.

 

He created some mailing lists and they work fine for him.  I purchased 2
domains, and he created about 10 mailing lists for me.

 

The problem is that when I try to send an email on the mailing list, I
*always* get back the following error:

 

 

 

The original message was received at Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:17:13 +0200 from
[x.x.x.x]

 

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<mylistname at mydomain.org>

 

   ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 5.1.2
<mylistname at mydomain.org>... Host unknown (Name server: mail.mydomain.org.:
host not found)

 

 

 

Any ideas how it can be solved!?  He says that all the settings seem ok and
they are the same like the other mailing lists that work for him.

 

Thanks m8s!

 

DC



From Hannu.Niemi at kuntaliitto.fi  Tue Oct 25 10:27:22 2005
From: Hannu.Niemi at kuntaliitto.fi (Niemi Hannu)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:27:22 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List specific gids?
Message-ID: <C262B8ECE515D348BF758C93F12F6F7601F97454@KLMAIL.ad.kuntaliitto.fi>

Hello

I have tried briefly to skim the archives and web with no answer so far.

The problem is that I have some lists that require mail-gid XXXX and
others YYYY.
This makes it imposssible scheme to everyday operation, of course
(changing it in mailman.mail-gid file).

Now, is it list-wise defined somewhere?

Some of the lists have been copied from previous installation of
mailman, which might explain some aspects of the problem.

To my ear this sounds like there is a place per list, where to change
this. Only, can't find where...

I am running SuSE 9.3, Postfix and Mailman.

Seeking desperately help

hannu


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Oct 25 10:44:49 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:44:49 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List specific gids?
In-Reply-To: <C262B8ECE515D348BF758C93F12F6F7601F97454@KLMAIL.ad.kuntaliitto.fi
	>
References: <C262B8ECE515D348BF758C93F12F6F7601F97454@KLMAIL.ad.kuntaliitto.fi
	>
Message-ID: <p06200709bf83a074d617@[10.0.1.210]>

At 11:27 AM +0300 2005-10-25, Niemi Hannu wrote:

>  The problem is that I have some lists that require mail-gid XXXX and
>  others YYYY.
>  This makes it imposssible scheme to everyday operation, of course
>  (changing it in mailman.mail-gid file).
>
>  Now, is it list-wise defined somewhere?

	Nope.  I don't think that this is something that can be easily resolved.

	The problem is that there is only one set of Mailman processes 
which is handling all the various different lists, so everything has 
to be uniform when it comes to things like group ids.


	You might be able to install multiple instances of Mailman, each 
operating on a different virtual domain, but that's going to get 
messy to configure in your web server, your mail server, your startup 
scripts, etc....

	It should be do-able, but it's not going to be easy.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From shillong at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 11:19:51 2005
From: shillong at gmail.com (Shillong Dotcom)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:49:51 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list info, etc on digest mail..
Message-ID: <23e021a50510250219l250559ablb90e93529f7674d4@mail.gmail.com>

Hi
 In digest mail, the listinfo, subscribe/unsubscribe info comes in the top
of the mail.
 can this be moved to teh bottom on the page?
 the digest mail shoudl start with the table of content.
 regards
 Babul


From Hannu.Niemi at kuntaliitto.fi  Tue Oct 25 11:23:22 2005
From: Hannu.Niemi at kuntaliitto.fi (Niemi Hannu)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:23:22 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VS:  List specific gids?
Message-ID: <C262B8ECE515D348BF758C93F12F6F7601F974E1@KLMAIL.ad.kuntaliitto.fi>

> -----Alkuper?inen viesti-----
> L?hett?j?: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad at stop.mail-abuse.org] 
> L?hetetty: 25. lokakuuta 2005 11:45
> Vastaanottaja: Niemi Hannu
> Kopio: mailman-users at python.org
> Aihe: Re: [Mailman-Users] List specific gids?
> 
> At 11:27 AM +0300 2005-10-25, Niemi Hannu wrote:
> 
> >  The problem is that I have some lists that require 
> mail-gid XXXX and  
> > others YYYY.
> >  This makes it imposssible scheme to everyday operation, of course  
> > (changing it in mailman.mail-gid file).
> >
> >  Now, is it list-wise defined somewhere?
> 
> 	Nope.  I don't think that this is something that can be 
> easily resolved.
> 
> 	The problem is that there is only one set of Mailman 
> processes which is handling all the various different lists, 
> so everything has to be uniform when it comes to things like 
> group ids.
> 
> 
> 	You might be able to install multiple instances of 
> Mailman, each operating on a different virtual domain, but 
> that's going to get messy to configure in your web server, 
> your mail server, your startup scripts, etc....
> 
> 	It should be do-able, but it's not going to be easy.

Maybe I expressed myself wrong. I just would ike to harmonize all the lists to same gid. I just wonder WHERE is the gid per list stored or how to make sure it's same as "the default".

regards

hannu niemi


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Oct 25 11:26:42 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:26:42 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VS:  List specific gids?
In-Reply-To: <C262B8ECE515D348BF758C93F12F6F7601F974E1@KLMAIL.ad.kuntaliitto.fi
	>
References: <C262B8ECE515D348BF758C93F12F6F7601F974E1@KLMAIL.ad.kuntaliitto.fi
	>
Message-ID: <p0620070cbf83aaa33908@[10.0.1.210]>

At 12:23 PM +0300 2005-10-25, Niemi Hannu wrote:

>  Maybe I expressed myself wrong. I just would ike to harmonize all the lists
>  to same gid.

	Right.  The same one as Mailman.

>                I just wonder WHERE is the gid per list stored or how to
>  make sure it's same as "the default".

	There is no per-list group id.  None.  The group id has to be the 
same as Mailman, otherwise things break.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From Hannu.Niemi at kuntaliitto.fi  Tue Oct 25 11:34:40 2005
From: Hannu.Niemi at kuntaliitto.fi (Niemi Hannu)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:34:40 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VS:  VS:  List specific gids?
Message-ID: <C262B8ECE515D348BF758C93F12F6F7601F974FE@KLMAIL.ad.kuntaliitto.fi>

 

> >  Maybe I expressed myself wrong. I just would ike to 
> harmonize all the 
> > lists  to same gid.
> 
> 	Right.  The same one as Mailman.

Agreed
 
> >                I just wonder WHERE is the gid per list 
> stored or how 
> > to  make sure it's same as "the default".
> 
> 	There is no per-list group id.  None.  The group id has 
> to be the same as Mailman, otherwise things break.

Then HOW is it possible that some lists work, when
etc/mailman/mailman.mail-gid is nogroup (65533 in my box) and others
when it's mailman (67)? 

I can reproduce the symptom and cure for each list. Now, HOW does the
mailman change the gid it uses per list?

hannu


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Oct 25 11:51:10 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:51:10 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VS:  VS:  List specific gids?
In-Reply-To: <C262B8ECE515D348BF758C93F12F6F7601F974FE@KLMAIL.ad.kuntaliitto.fi
	>
References: <C262B8ECE515D348BF758C93F12F6F7601F974FE@KLMAIL.ad.kuntaliitto.fi
	>
Message-ID: <p0620070ebf83b01c8193@[10.0.1.210]>

At 12:34 PM +0300 2005-10-25, Niemi Hannu wrote:

>>  	There is no per-list group id.  None.  The group id has
>>  to be the same as Mailman, otherwise things break.
>
>  Then HOW is it possible that some lists work, when
>  etc/mailman/mailman.mail-gid is nogroup (65533 in my box) and others
>  when it's mailman (67)?

	Dunno.  Maybe the permissions on some list directories are more 
open than they should be, so that even if the group id is wrong, the 
operations are still allowed to happen.

>  I can reproduce the symptom and cure for each list. Now, HOW does the
>  mailman change the gid it uses per list?

	As I said, it doesn't.  Period.  End of discussion.

	You've got something much more fundamentally broken on your 
machine.  You might want to try re-installing from scratch, then 
copying over only the list configuration pickles.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From mailerman at b59.info  Tue Oct 25 12:41:42 2005
From: mailerman at b59.info (bARRY)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 06:41:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] basic email interface to mailman
In-Reply-To: <BAY112-DAV15EB401E50BAF4597E2EA7BD760@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY112-DAV15EB401E50BAF4597E2EA7BD760@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <p06002002bf83baf75484@[192.168.123.125]>

   I am interested in the basic email interface to mailman.  Not for my
subscribers, but for purposes of scripting some of the lists management.

  I have easily determined the email address to reach this interface for my
lists, and of the 'help' and 'help set' commands to get the list of
commands for interfacing with mailman by email.  But I hope/think there
must be more supported than is in that list.

  In particular, I see how to subscribe someone by new email address, but
not how to set the associated 'name' for the subscriber...  data that is
kept/supported/shown in the web interface.  Is it not supported?

  Is it in one of those 'documentation' items that I think I looked
completely through?   :-)

Thanks in advance!

-- 


-bC
Barry Conner
Annapolis, MD    USA

You're only young once, but you can be immature forever!


From cuschieridaniel at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 25 15:17:48 2005
From: cuschieridaniel at hotmail.com (Daniel Cuschieri)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:17:48 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Host not found
Message-ID: <BAY112-DAV6A6AA17F14384D0FDC938BD760@phx.gbl>

Woops my bad!  I quoted the incorrect error message!

 

The error msg I am getting is this one:

 

The original message was received at Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:14:15 +0200 from
[xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]

 

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<mylist at mydomain.org>

    (reason: 550 <mylist at mydomain.org>: Recipient address rejected: User
unknown in virtual alias table)

 

   ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to
mail.mydomain.org.:

>>> DATA

<<< 550 <mylist at mydomain.org>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in
virtual alias table 550 5.1.1 <mylist at mydomain.org>... User unknown <<< 554
Error: no valid recipients

 

Any ideas?!

 

DC

 

 

 

 

  _____  

From: Daniel Cuschieri [mailto:cuschieridaniel at hotmail.com] 
Sent: 25 October 2005 08:34
To: 'mailman-users at python.org'
Subject: FW: Host not found

 

Hi guys!

 

My friend has a home server and I use web / mail server services from him.
He also uses mailman to provide mailing lists.

 

He created some mailing lists and they work fine for him.  I purchased 2
domains, and he created about 10 mailing lists for me.

 

The problem is that when I try to send an email on the mailing list, I
*always* get back the following error:

 

 

 

The original message was received at Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:17:13 +0200 from
[x.x.x.x]

 

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<mylistname at mydomain.org>

 

   ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 5.1.2
<mylistname at mydomain.org>... Host unknown (Name server: mail.mydomain.org.:
host not found)

 

 

 

Any ideas how it can be solved!?  He says that all the settings seem ok and
they are the same like the other mailing lists that work for him.

 

Thanks m8s!

 

DC



From dwight at dtovey.net  Tue Oct 25 15:20:53 2005
From: dwight at dtovey.net (Dwight Tovey)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:20:53 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Host not found
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+/Y2Sb8y2kW3BZjjAGED3M
	KAAAAQAAAAfoPaW0uLR0eFBiaADjh63gEAAAAA@hotmail.com>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+/Y2Sb8y2kW3BZjjAGED3MKAAAAQAAAAfoPaW0uLR0eFBiaADjh63gEAAAAA@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <48453.216.190.144.90.1130246453.squirrel@216.190.144.90>


Daniel Cuschieri said:
> Hi guys!
>
> My friend has a home server and I use web / mail server services from him.
> He also uses mailman to provide mailing lists.
>
> He created some mailing lists and they work fine for him.  I purchased 2
> domains, and he created about 10 mailing lists for me.
>
> The problem is that when I try to send an email on the mailing list, I
> *always* get back the following error:
>
> The original message was received at Tue, 25 Oct 2005 08:17:13 +0200 from
> [x.x.x.x]
>    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> <mylistname at mydomain.org>
>
>    ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 5.1.2
> <mylistname at mydomain.org>... Host unknown (Name server:
> mail.mydomain.org.:
> host not found)
>

This sounds like DNS has not been completely configured for your domains. 
Assuming that you are trying to send a message from your hotmail account
to your list, when you hit 'send', the hotmail server trys to lookup the
address for your domain, but can't find the mail server.

You'll have to go to whoever you registered your domains with and if they
are handling DNS for you make sure that your domain has an MX record.  If
they don't handle DNS directly, then they should have an entry that points
at the server that does handle it (your friend's machine?) and make sure
that you have a proper MX record there.

Hope this helps.
    /dwight
-- 
Dwight N. Tovey
email: dwight at dtovey.net
web: http://www.dtovey.net/~dwight
-----------
I don't mind going nowhere as long as it's an interesting path.



From dwight at dtovey.net  Tue Oct 25 15:31:02 2005
From: dwight at dtovey.net (Dwight Tovey)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 07:31:02 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Host not found
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+/Y2Sb8y2kW3BZjjAGED3M
	KAAAAQAAAA20f9wve2EECNY/oxN2gKQwEAAAAA@hotmail.com>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+/Y2Sb8y2kW3BZjjAGED3MKAAAAQAAAA20f9wve2EECNY/oxN2gKQwEAAAAA@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <48476.216.190.144.90.1130247062.squirrel@216.190.144.90>


Daniel Cuschieri said:
> Woops my bad!  I quoted the incorrect error message!
>
> The error msg I am getting is this one:
>
> The original message was received at Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:14:15 +0200 from
> [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]
>
>    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> <mylist at mydomain.org>
>
>     (reason: 550 <mylist at mydomain.org>: Recipient address rejected: User
> unknown in virtual alias table)
>
>    ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to
> mail.mydomain.org.:
>
>>>> DATA
>
> <<< 550 <mylist at mydomain.org>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in
> virtual alias table 550 5.1.1 <mylist at mydomain.org>... User unknown <<<
> 554
> Error: no valid recipients
>

Ok, so now we've found what machine the mail list is on, but that machine
doesn't know about the list.  You need to tell the SMTP daemon how to
deliver messages to Mailman.  The specifics of this will depend on which
SMTP server you are using (sendmail, exim, postfix, qmail).  Look at
Chapter 6 in the Mailman Installation Manual:
http://www.list.org/mailman-install/mail-server.html

    /dwight
-- 
Dwight N. Tovey
email: dwight at dtovey.net
web: http://www.dtovey.net/~dwight
-----------
Note in Laser Printer case:  "Do not look at laser with your remaining
good eye"



From troy at cranfords.org  Tue Oct 25 18:41:47 2005
From: troy at cranfords.org (Troy Cranford)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:41:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posting problems to all users of our mailing list...
Message-ID: <20051025164431.223AB1E4002@bag.python.org>

Morning All,
Fairly long story so please bear with me.  I am the webmaster for our local
parent teachers origination's web page.  One of our duties is to send a
weekly email to about 550 users with current school happenings.  Since it's
inception last year my Mailman mail list has not reached all users.  I've
worked with several of our users to diagnose the problem with no success.  I
find no correlation at all with the users...some are Road Runner, AOL, SBC
Global etc.  I've asked all to check their SPAM folders...nothing.  
 
My installation is through a shared web host so I don't have access to any
of the Mailman configuration files.  
 
It got to the point where I just switched web hosts (now bluehost.com) to
see if we could resolve the problem.  Now I seem to get better coverage of
the 550 users and, in fact, am now sending to some of the users that were
not getting our posts before but I'm still not hitting everyone.
 
Any ideas from ANYONE would be greatly appreciated.  My web host's support
is next to useless but if someone has something for me to ask I'll send in
the support request.
 
TIA,
-Troy


From jdennis at redhat.com  Tue Oct 25 19:29:34 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:29:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Host not found
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+/Y2Sb8y2kW3BZjjAGED3MKAAAAQAAAA20f9wve2EECNY/oxN2gKQwEAAAAA@hotmail.com>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA+/Y2Sb8y2kW3BZjjAGED3MKAAAAQAAAA20f9wve2EECNY/oxN2gKQwEAAAAA@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <1130261374.2788.17.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Tue, 2005-10-25 at 15:17 +0200, Daniel Cuschieri wrote:
> Woops my bad!  I quoted the incorrect error message!
> The error msg I am getting is this one:
>    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> <mylist at mydomain.org>
> 
>     (reason: 550 <mylist at mydomain.org>: Recipient address rejected: User
> unknown in virtual alias table)
> 
>  
> 
>    ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to
> mail.mydomain.org.:
> 
> >>> DATA
> 
> <<< 550 <mylist at mydomain.org>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in
> virtual alias table 550 5.1.1 <mylist at mydomain.org>... User unknown <<< 554
> Error: no valid recipients

This is a postfix MTA error, as such it is not a mailman error, as such
you should direct your research towards postfix (www.postfix.org) not
mailman. However, that being said I'll try to explain what is going on
and I hope that will point you in the right direction. 

At the core of the problem is that postfix does not know about your
mailman aliases. There is documentation in the mailman installation
guide on configuring mailman and postfix
(http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html), start by reading
that. Next postfix has an option to reject mail for local users which
are not known to postfix, that is what is getting triggered here, so
read this postfix documentation
(http://www.postfix.org/LOCAL_RECIPIENT_README.html). Finally, it
appears you have virtual addressing enabled for postfix, I'm not sure
why you need this, its seems like an unnecessary complication for your
set up. The mailman postfix integration guide how to configure this, but
like I said, I don't see why you need this, or at least you haven't
indicated why you need to map a non-existant domain. The postfix site
has good documentation on virtual domains
(http://www.postfix.org/VIRTUAL_README.html), reading that might shed
some light.

HTH,
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From winkelmann at webnauts.net  Tue Oct 25 19:48:33 2005
From: winkelmann at webnauts.net (Jan-Simon Winkelmann)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:48:33 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Postfix
Message-ID: <435E6FF1.6030002@webnauts.net>

Hi everybody!

I have a (most likely very simple and noob) question:

whenever I try to create a new mailing list using the mailman web 
interface, i get the following error:

Error: unknown virtual host: www.domain.net

also for all mailto links mailman displays <address>@www.domain.net

can someone help please?

i've been googling half the day ... lol

best wishes,
Jan


      *
      //*




From kmccann at cruciverb.com  Tue Oct 25 22:29:04 2005
From: kmccann at cruciverb.com (Kevin McCann)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:29:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error msg for one list, can't fix
Message-ID: <435E9590.50006@cruciverb.com>


I have a problem similar to the one posted by Doc Schneider a few days 
ago, but I have not been able to fix things. I have this in logs/errors:

--------------------
Oct 25 15:22:15 2005 (9353) Uncaught runner exception: ASCII encoding 
error: ordinal not in range(128)
Oct 25 15:22:15 2005 (9353) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/OutgoingRunner.py", line 73, in 
_dispose
    self._func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py", line 152, in 
process
    deliveryfunc(mlist, msg, msgdata, envsender, refused, conn)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py", line 285, in 
verpdeliver
    Decorate.process(mlist, msgcopy, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Decorate.py", line 58, in 
process
    username = username.encode(Utils.GetCharSet(d['user_language']))
UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
--------------------


As per Mark Sapiro's directions, which helped Doc, I did the following:

1) shut down the Mailman qrunner

2) edited  private/mylist.mbox/mylist.mbox (I removed all messages since 
before the last successfully delivered message)

3) removed all files from qfiles/shunt

4) did  bin/arch -wipe  mylist

5) restarted  Mailman

6) sent a test message


The test message gave me the error messages shown above.

Ideas?

- Kevin



From jkeroes at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 22:18:18 2005
From: jkeroes at gmail.com (Joshua Keroes)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:18:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posters not getting their own posts: not metoo
	broken?
Message-ID: <c67b68200510251318n4a5f11f4v2e7e7535450d298b@mail.gmail.com>

I've looked through the FAQ and the last few months on the mail
archive. This subject has come up before, but I'm pretty sure that I
have things configured correctly; correct me if I'm mistaken.

The predicament: our users want to see their own posts. The posts go
out to everyone on the list except for the original poster.

We are using MailMan 2.1.6. Here's the configuration:

General Options
  [ ] Do not send a copy of a member's own post
  [ ] Filter out duplicate messages to list members (if possible)

Membership Management... -> Membership List
  all users are set with the following options:
    [ ] not metoo
    [X] nodupes

As I understand it, as long as "not metoo" is unchecked, that poster
will see their own postings. "nodupes" has no bearing on this, IIUC,
but I've included it anyway.

To test this configuration, I just send an email to the list. It did
show up in the list archives but I did not get a copy.

Help?

Many thanks,
Joshua


From kmccann at cruciverb.com  Wed Oct 26 00:04:47 2005
From: kmccann at cruciverb.com (Kevin McCann)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:04:47 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error msg for one list, can't fix (SOLVED)
In-Reply-To: <435E9590.50006@cruciverb.com>
References: <435E9590.50006@cruciverb.com>
Message-ID: <435EABFF.8020101@cruciverb.com>

Solved!

Kevin McCann wrote:

>I have a problem similar to the one posted by Doc Schneider a few days 
>ago, but I have not been able to fix things. I have this in logs/errors:
>  
>

Looking at this line was the clue

>    username = username.encode(Utils.GetCharSet(d['user_language']))
>UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
>  
>

Checked the email addresses subscribed (using list_members), didn't see 
anything. Then I listed with fullnames (list_members -f ) and looked for 
anything out of the ordinary. Saw a question mark in one of the names. 
Looked at the user via the web interface and she had a username of 
Valeria but the e was accented. I removed her address and all is now OK.

Question:  how do I avoid this in the future?

- Kevin




From popakr at gmail.com  Tue Oct 25 23:52:13 2005
From: popakr at gmail.com (Popak Roshan)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:52:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix and Installetion problem
Message-ID: <14f036c80510251452y11f726c3k5e8baab6fd1608b4@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,
I would like to run mailman at my Mac os 10.4 server, I have 2 questions:
 I read the documetation and it said to enable postfix use "postfix
enabler", Doesn't running mail services would be enough, since tiger
runs postfix.

thanks

-Popak


From dhphllps at memphis.edu  Wed Oct 26 00:13:41 2005
From: dhphllps at memphis.edu (Dan Phillips)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:13:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix and Installetion problem
In-Reply-To: <14f036c80510251452y11f726c3k5e8baab6fd1608b4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <14f036c80510251452y11f726c3k5e8baab6fd1608b4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55F831B4-2F52-44C0-B23E-8269DA52C8E9@memphis.edu>

On Oct 25, 2005, at 4:52 PM, Popak Roshan wrote:
> I would like to run mailman at my Mac os 10.4 server, I have 2  
> questions:
>  I read the documetation and it said to enable postfix use "postfix
> enabler", Doesn't running mail services would be enough, since tiger
> runs postfix.


In Server Admin you just need to enable mailing lists: select mail  
service/settings/mailing lists and check the box to enable them. Once  
you've done that, it's better to ignore Apple's pathetic GUI and just  
use Mailman's own web interface.

Dan


================================
Dan Phillips
Professor of Horn, University of Memphis
webmaster: http://music.memphis.edu



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 26 01:52:35 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:52:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] VS:  VS:  List specific gids?
In-Reply-To: <C262B8ECE515D348BF758C93F12F6F7601F974FE@KLMAIL.ad.kuntaliitto.fi>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510251652350328fc414bcb@msapiro>

Niemi Hannu wrote:
> 
>Then HOW is it possible that some lists work, when
>etc/mailman/mailman.mail-gid is nogroup (65533 in my box) and others
>when it's mailman (67)? 
>
>I can reproduce the symptom and cure for each list. Now, HOW does the
>mailman change the gid it uses per list?


Either you actually have two different wrappers (the program that the
MTA pipes the incoming messages to), one invoked for one subset of
lists and another for the other lists. Check your MTA aliases or
whatever your MTA uses to know where to deliver the mail.

Or this is some SuSE specific modification that most of us know nothing
about.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 26 02:14:57 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:14:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] basic email interface to mailman
In-Reply-To: <p06002002bf83baf75484@[192.168.123.125]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510251714570687c76dfb28@msapiro>

bARRY wrote:

>   I am interested in the basic email interface to mailman.  Not for my
>subscribers, but for purposes of scripting some of the lists management.


There essentially isn't one.


>  I have easily determined the email address to reach this interface for my
>lists, and of the 'help' and 'help set' commands to get the list of
>commands for interfacing with mailman by email.  But I hope/think there
>must be more supported than is in that list.


Only email approval/denial of held posts and requests. That's about it.
And that requires admin_immed_notify be set to Yes so the
admin/moderator will get a notice with a confirm token in it.


>  In particular, I see how to subscribe someone by new email address, but
>not how to set the associated 'name' for the subscriber...  data that is
>kept/supported/shown in the web interface.  Is it not supported?


If a user subscribes him/herself, the real name is taken from the From:
header of the e-mail. If anyone subscribes a different address via the
address= option on an e-mail subscribe command, no real name can be
specified. Note that if the list is set for subscription confirmation,
a confirmation of this request is sent to the address to be added, no
matter who submits the request. It really is not designed for admin
subscribes.


>  Is it in one of those 'documentation' items that I think I looked
>completely through?   :-)


No, you haven't overlooked it. Mailman is designed for web based list
administration only.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From d4rkness at comcast.net  Wed Oct 26 02:16:16 2005
From: d4rkness at comcast.net (David)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:16:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attach Pics
Message-ID: <435ECAD0.1070003@comcast.net>

I want to allow pics but nothing else.  No html emails, exes, zips etc  
I got the list to block everthing but I am not seeing how to allow just 
pics to go thru.

-- 
No Smoking Forum - Http://www.nicodemon.info/community
Lansing Forum - Http://www.greater-lansing.com/community

He's Not My President!!!
Blue States Rock~

The truth is not that comfortable....no - Moby~



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 26 02:22:39 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:22:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Host not found
In-Reply-To: <1130261374.2788.17.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005102517223901097ea994f4@msapiro>

John Dennis wrote:

>Finally, it
>appears you have virtual addressing enabled for postfix, I'm not sure
>why you need this, its seems like an unnecessary complication for your
>set up. The mailman postfix integration guide how to configure this, but
>like I said, I don't see why you need this, or at least you haven't
>indicated why you need to map a non-existant domain. The postfix site
>has good documentation on virtual domains
>(http://www.postfix.org/VIRTUAL_README.html), reading that might shed
>some light.


The OP said the lists were on a friend's server and the friend ran
other lists that work, so I'm guessing that these lists are in their
own virtual domain and recognition of that is what is missing from
postfix.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From heather at madrone.com  Wed Oct 26 02:44:10 2005
From: heather at madrone.com (Heather Madrone)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:44:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] basic email interface to mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510251714570687c76dfb28@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200510251714570687c76dfb28@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06230913bf847eeaa66a@[192.168.123.137]>

At 5:14 PM -0700 10/25/05, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>bARRY wrote:
>
>>   I am interested in the basic email interface to mailman.  Not for my
>>subscribers, but for purposes of scripting some of the lists management.
>
>
>There essentially isn't one.

I'm a little confused about this statement.  Most of the old majordomo
administrative email commands work with Mailman.  Not config or
newconfig, but a lot of the other ones.

-- 
Heather Madrone <heather at madrone.com>
The Home-Ed List:  http://www.madrone.com/Home-ed/helist.html

You can lead a child to learning, but you can't make her think.


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 26 03:03:59 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:03:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attach Pics
In-Reply-To: <435ECAD0.1070003@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510251803590265b447c424@msapiro>

David wrote:

>I want to allow pics but nothing else.  No html emails, exes, zips etc  
>I got the list to block everthing but I am not seeing how to allow just 
>pics to go thru.

In content filtering, one way to to this is

filter_content -> yes

filter_mime_types -> empty

pass_mime_types -> multipart/mixed
                   multipart/alternative
                   message/rfc822
                   text/plain
                   image

This allows only text/plain parts and image parts from multipart/mixed
messages and parts, multipart/alternative messages and parts and
attached message parts.

If you also want to allow PGP signed messages, add

          multipart/signed
          application/pgp-signature

to the above pass_mime_types list.

If you want to restrict image types to say GIF, JPEG and PNG only,
remove image from the list and add

         image/gif
         image/jpeg
         image/png

Of course, some evil doer can always send a zip or exe to your list
with MIME type image/jpeg. In Mailman 2.1.6, you can protect against
this to some extent with header_filter_rules (in Privacy
options...->Spam filters as described in the FAQ at
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.051.htp.
This doesn't work in 2.1.5 and earlier because they don't search
sub-part headers for header_filter_rules.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From d4rkness at comcast.net  Wed Oct 26 03:09:55 2005
From: d4rkness at comcast.net (David)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:09:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attach Pics
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510251803590265b447c424@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200510251803590265b447c424@msapiro>
Message-ID: <435ED763.9020402@comcast.net>

Ok I was trying to both one has to be empty..........duh some times you 
just look at something so long you dont get it.  Yes that worked.  I 
never ran Mailman before so I am trying to get everything set as I am 
almost ready to go live finally.

One more thing.  If people are on moderation is there some place to set 
it that they dont get notification of being moderated and their message 
is just held without them knowing it.  One more thing and I think I will 
be all set is there a feature for members to just turn off emails like 
if they are going on vacation etc?



Mark Sapiro wrote:
> David wrote:
>
>   
>> I want to allow pics but nothing else.  No html emails, exes, zips etc  
>> I got the list to block everthing but I am not seeing how to allow just 
>> pics to go thru.
>>     
>
> In content filtering, one way to to this is
>
> filter_content -> yes
>
> filter_mime_types -> empty
>
> pass_mime_types -> multipart/mixed
>                    multipart/alternative
>                    message/rfc822
>                    text/plain
>                    image
>
> This allows only text/plain parts and image parts from multipart/mixed
> messages and parts, multipart/alternative messages and parts and
> attached message parts.
>
> If you also want to allow PGP signed messages, add
>
>           multipart/signed
>           application/pgp-signature
>
> to the above pass_mime_types list.
>
> If you want to restrict image types to say GIF, JPEG and PNG only,
> remove image from the list and add
>
>          image/gif
>          image/jpeg
>          image/png
>
> Of course, some evil doer can always send a zip or exe to your list
> with MIME type image/jpeg. In Mailman 2.1.6, you can protect against
> this to some extent with header_filter_rules (in Privacy
> options...->Spam filters as described in the FAQ at
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.051.htp.
> This doesn't work in 2.1.5 and earlier because they don't search
> sub-part headers for header_filter_rules.
>
>   

-- 
No Smoking Forum - Http://www.nicodemon.info/community
Lansing Forum - Http://www.greater-lansing.com/community

He's Not My President!!!
Blue States Rock~

The truth is not that comfortable....no - Moby~



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 26 03:12:48 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:12:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] basic email interface to mailman
In-Reply-To: <p06230913bf847eeaa66a@[192.168.123.137]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510251812480140b447c39c@msapiro>

Heather Madrone wrote:

>At 5:14 PM -0700 10/25/05, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>bARRY wrote:
>>
>>>   I am interested in the basic email interface to mailman.  Not for my
>>>subscribers, but for purposes of scripting some of the lists management.
>>
>>
>>There essentially isn't one.
>
>I'm a little confused about this statement.  Most of the old majordomo
>administrative email commands work with Mailman.  Not config or
>newconfig, but a lot of the other ones.


The supported e-mail commands, with the limited exception of 'confirm'
and perhaps 'who' all support only user type functions, not list
administration functions. The OP was aware of the e-mail command
documentation returned by e-mail 'help' and 'help set' commands and
was looking for more.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 26 03:24:18 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:24:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posters not getting their own posts: not
	metoobroken?
In-Reply-To: <c67b68200510251318n4a5f11f4v2e7e7535450d298b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020051025182418026592e4b8db@msapiro>

Joshua Keroes wrote:
>
>The predicament: our users want to see their own posts. The posts go
>out to everyone on the list except for the original poster.
>
>We are using MailMan 2.1.6. Here's the configuration:
>
>General Options
>  [ ] Do not send a copy of a member's own post
>  [ ] Filter out duplicate messages to list members (if possible)


These are defaults for new members, the ones below apply.


>Membership Management... -> Membership List
>  all users are set with the following options:
>    [ ] not metoo
>    [X] nodupes
>
>As I understand it, as long as "not metoo" is unchecked, that poster
>will see their own postings. "nodupes" has no bearing on this, IIUC,
>but I've included it anyway.


It may. If the user is in the habit of CCing him/herself on posts to
the list, nodupes will supress the post from the list.


>To test this configuration, I just send an email to the list. It did
>show up in the list archives but I did not get a copy.


If your own address is not mentioned in any To: or Cc: header, not
metoo is not set for you, and everyone else received the post, then I
don't know. Do you have access to Mailman's logs? If so, you can check
the bounce log to see if the delivery to you bounced. You can also
check the smtp log to see how many recipients there were and compare
that to the number of non-digest subscribers with delivery enabled to
see if any are missing.

You aren't a digest subscriber by any chance?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 26 03:32:39 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:32:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attach Pics
In-Reply-To: <435ED763.9020402@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC174020051025183239037592e4b95e@msapiro>

David wrote:
>
>One more thing.  If people are on moderation is there some place to set 
>it that they dont get notification of being moderated and their message 
>is just held without them knowing it.


No. If member_moderation_action is hold or reject, the member is
notified. Only if member_moderation_action is discard is there no
notice.


>One more thing and I think I will 
>be all set is there a feature for members to just turn off emails like 
>if they are going on vacation etc?


Yes. A member can disable delivery from the user options page or by
emailing a 'set delivery off' command (requires a 'set authenticate'
command - send mail with subject 'set help' to the list-request
address for more info).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Wed Oct 26 03:35:44 2005
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:35:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix and Installetion problem
In-Reply-To: <14f036c80510251452y11f726c3k5e8baab6fd1608b4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BF8447A0.10788%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 10/25/05 4:52 PM, Popak Roshan at popakr at gmail.com wrote:

> Hello all,
> I would like to run mailman at my Mac os 10.4 server, I have 2 questions:
>  I read the documetation and it said to enable postfix use "postfix
> enabler", Doesn't running mail services would be enough, since tiger
> runs postfix.

Your mention of Postfix Enabler implies you're reading the instructions I
wrote. Those instructions are for MacOS X client. Client has postfix
included but no tools for turning it on short of manual configuration nor
does it have a POP or IMAP server. MacOS X server, OTOH, has all that plus
already has an Apple-modified version of mailman.

-- 
Larry Stone
lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/




From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 26 05:09:14 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:09:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posting problems to all users of our mailing
	list...
In-Reply-To: <20051025164431.223AB1E4002@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC174020051025200914000092e4b7ce@msapiro>

Troy Cranford wrote:
> 
>It got to the point where I just switched web hosts (now bluehost.com) to
>see if we could resolve the problem.  Now I seem to get better coverage of
>the 550 users and, in fact, am now sending to some of the users that were
>not getting our posts before but I'm still not hitting everyone.
> 
>Any ideas from ANYONE would be greatly appreciated.  My web host's support
>is next to useless but if someone has something for me to ask I'll send in
>the support request.


I assume you've checked that everyone is a non-digest subscriber and
that all have delivery enabled (fairly easy to check from the list
roster page, at least for non-hidden members).

What I would do, if I can't see logs and might not be able to get
support to look at them for me is on the bounce processing page, make
sure that bounce_processing is on and all the notifications are on
(and make sure I have a valid 'owner' e-mail so I'll get the
notifications). Then set bounce_score_threshold to 0.5. This will make
the first bounce disable the user (or send a probe to disable the
user). The owner will be notified and receive a copy of the bounce.
Then, after a day or two, set the bounce_score_threshold back to a
reasonable value and re-enable the disabled users.

What this accomplishes is it gets you a copy of the bounce notice for
each mail user that bounced, and you may then use that information to
follow up on why.

Some other general thoughts.

How do you know who's not getting the mail? This is generally not easy
to determine reliably. Even when people complain that they didn't get
something, it isn't always true.

ISPs do lots of things with mail besides delivering it or rejecting it.
Some ISPs will just silently discard mail they don't like. Thus in
these cases, you won't see a bounce and the recipient won't see the
mail and the ISP may not admit that this has happened. ISPs tend to
think that it's to their advantage to protect their users from spam
even if it means discarding some desired mail.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 26 05:26:44 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:26:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Postfix
In-Reply-To: <435E6FF1.6030002@webnauts.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402005102520264409687181b094@msapiro>

Jan-Simon Winkelmann wrote:
>
>whenever I try to create a new mailing list using the mailman web 
>interface, i get the following error:
>
>Error: unknown virtual host: www.domain.net
>
>also for all mailto links mailman displays <address>@www.domain.net


You can probably correct the mailto: links for an existing list by
changing host_name on the list's General Options page.

You can't create lists via the web because you are accessing the web
page via host www.domain.net, and that fqdn is not a url-host in the
VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary (not the first argument of any
add_virtualhost() ), and VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW has its default value
of On.

What do you have in Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py for DEFAULT_URL_HOST,
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and add_virtualhost()?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 26 05:47:40 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 20:47:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list info, etc on digest mail..
In-Reply-To: <23e021a50510250219l250559ablb90e93529f7674d4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510252047400890c8dde9a2@msapiro>

Shillong Dotcom wrote:

> In digest mail, the listinfo, subscribe/unsubscribe info comes in the top
>of the mail.
> can this be moved to teh bottom on the page?
> the digest mail shoudl start with the table of content.
> regards


See http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-July/045749.html

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hannah at schlund.de  Wed Oct 26 17:48:45 2005
From: hannah at schlund.de (Hannah Schroeter)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 17:48:45 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "bounce" message from misconfigured mail host(s)
	[postoffice@xizor.is.scarlet.be: Returned mail: User unknown]
Message-ID: <20051026154845.GE17724@schlund.de>

Hello!

I'm getting "bounces" like this from a misconfigured site which bounces
to the header From instead of the envelope from.

Perhaps that recipient should just be removed from the list?

The "bounce" has envelope from
  jean.jacques.blanckaert at tiscali.be
  (should be empty!)
header from
  postoffice at xizor.is.scarlet.be
and stems from
  [193.74.71.21] (helo=xizor.is.scarlet.be)
  (helo matches the reverse-mapping of the IP, double reverse check
  matches)

Its received lines seem to be echoed from the original mail (bad!).

The upmost received lines from the original mail are:
  Received: from (smtp-vbr10.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.30])
        by fundy.is.scarlet.be  with ESMTP id j9NJNaoW011305
        for <jjbl3213 at tiscali.be>;
        Sun, 23 Oct 2005 21:23:36 +0200
  Received: from bag.python.org (bag.python.org [194.109.207.14])
        by smtp-vbr10.xs4all.nl (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j9NJNV5u040983
        for <jjbl3213 at tiscali.be>; Sun, 23 Oct 2005 21:23:36 +0200 (CEST)
        (envelope-from mailman-users-bounces+jjbl3213=tiscali.be at python.org)
  Received: from bag.python.org (bag [127.0.0.1])
        by bag.python.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0E2B1E411D
        for <jjbl3213 at tiscali.be>; Sun, 23 Oct 2005 21:23:14 +0200 (CEST)

So something at or after smtp-vbr10.xs4all.nl or fundy.is.scarlet.be is
heavily misconfigured. Please fix this (CC is set to people who could be
responsible): DSNs should have an empty (null) envelope sender and
should be sent *only* to the envelope sender of the original message,
the header (From/Reply-To) should never be evaluated for creating
DSNs/bounces.

Kind regards,

Hannah.

----- Forwarded message from postoffice at xizor.is.scarlet.be -----

From: postoffice at xizor.is.scarlet.be
To: Hannah Schroeter <hannah at schlund.de>
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 17:38:30 +0200
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown

The original message was received at 2005-10-26 17:34:24 +0200
from postoffice.local [10.0.0.1]

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<jean.jacques.blanckaert at tiscali.be>

   -----Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to postoffice.local.:
>>> RCPT To:<jean.jacques.blanckaert at tiscali.be>
<<< 550 5.1.1 unknown or illegal alias: jean.jacques.blanckaert at tiscali.be
550 <jean.jacques.blanckaert at tiscali.be>... User unknown

Reporting-MTA: dns; postoffice.local
Received-From-MTA: DNS; postoffice.local
Arrival-Date: 2005-10-26 17:34:24 +0200

Final-Recipient: RFC822; jean.jacques.blanckaert at tiscali.be
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; postoffice.local
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP;550 5.1.1 unknown or illegal alias: jean.jacques.blanckaert at tiscali.be
Last-Attempt-Date: 2005-10-26 17:34:24 +0200

From: Hannah Schroeter <hannah at schlund.de>
To: mailman-users at python.org
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 21:23:00 +0200
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Disable Subscriptions/Unsubscriptions

Hello!

On Sun, Oct 23, 2005 at 09:11:00PM +0200, Bernd Petrovitsch wrote:
>Hi all!

>Is there a possibility to disable the member subscription/unsubscription
>through the web interface?
>The list-members are added and removed with a script which is fed from a
>DB so there is no point in self-subscription.

I don't know whether there's a specific knob in mailman itself, but
you could either just not publish the list info address at all, or
deny access to it, using appropriate web server configuration (access
control or rewrite rules to show explanatory text instead).

>	Bernd

Kind regards,

Hannah.
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jjbl3213%40tiscali.be

Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



----- End forwarded message -----


From jwblist at olympus.net  Wed Oct 26 18:27:16 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:27:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posting problems to all users of our mailing
 list...
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051025200914000092e4b7ce@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BF84FC74.8BE4%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 10/25/05 8:09 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> ISPs do lots of things with mail besides delivering it or rejecting it.
> Some ISPs will just silently discard mail they don't like. Thus in
> these cases, you won't see a bounce and the recipient won't see the
> mail and the ISP may not admit that this has happened. ISPs tend to
> think that it's to their advantage to protect their users from spam
> even if it means discarding some desired mail.

The above is part of the destruction of email that the spammers have
accomplished.

Note that it's not just the ISP.  We regularly get support calls about mail
not being received, when the logs clearly show that the message was
deposited into the user's mailbox and later picked up by the user's machine.
Something on the user's machine (our users primarily run Windows of some
vintage) has filed, dropped, or done whatever to the message.

  --John




From lists05 at equinephotoart.com  Wed Oct 26 18:50:45 2005
From: lists05 at equinephotoart.com (JC Dill)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:50:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posting problems to all users of our mailing
 list...
In-Reply-To: <BF84FC74.8BE4%jwblist@olympus.net>
References: <BF84FC74.8BE4%jwblist@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <435FB3E5.3090204@equinephotoart.com>

John W. Baxter wrote:
> Note that it's not just the ISP.  We regularly get support calls about mail
> not being received, when the logs clearly show that the message was
> deposited into the user's mailbox and later picked up by the user's machine.
> Something on the user's machine (our users primarily run Windows of some
> vintage) has filed, dropped, or done whatever to the message.

I have found that in most such cases it's PEBKAC.

jc




From futrell at pghmail.com  Wed Oct 26 19:55:17 2005
From: futrell at pghmail.com (Jim & Marlowe Futrell)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:55:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help!
Message-ID: <00a901c5da56$6dad1730$4fa28840@yourxb2x7j77gn>

Hi,

We use this software and continue to get the following error message (see below).  Is there anything that can be adjusted in order to send larger messages?  Also, we can not send messages with attached files.  What can we do to rectify this situation?

Sincerely,
Marlowe Futrell
___

Your mail to 'NAPHAstaff' with the subject

    FW: [Naphastaff] RE: San Filippo event

Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.

The reason it is being held:

    Message body is too big: 50802 bytes with a limit of 40 KB

Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator's decision.  If you would like to cancel
this posting, please visit the following URL:

 
http://napha.org/mailman/confirm/naphastaff_napha.org/72586148b76afd1cdd2af6
ba8e6e4ea8e77e377e


 Outgoing mail is Virus Scanned byNorman Data Defense.        Inbound Spam reduced 98.2% byVircom Sieve.        

From bernd at firmix.at  Wed Oct 26 20:31:16 2005
From: bernd at firmix.at (Bernd Petrovitsch)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 20:31:16 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help!
In-Reply-To: <00a901c5da56$6dad1730$4fa28840@yourxb2x7j77gn>
References: <00a901c5da56$6dad1730$4fa28840@yourxb2x7j77gn>
Message-ID: <1130351477.3297.15.camel@gimli.at.home>

On Wed, 2005-10-26 at 10:55 -0700, Jim & Marlowe Futrell wrote:
[...]
> We use this software and continue to get the following error message 
> (see below).  Is there anything that can be adjusted in order to send 
> larger messages?

Yes.

>  Also, we can not send messages with attached files.  What can we do
>  to rectify this situation?

Set the limit for emails higher (or put the large attacjments on a
Webserver and mail the URL).

[...]
> Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.
> 
> The reason it is being held:
> 
>     Message body is too big: 50802 bytes with a limit of 40 KB

What may this message mean?

	Bernd
-- 
Firmix Software GmbH                   http://www.firmix.at/
mobil: +43 664 4416156                 fax: +43 1 7890849-55
          Embedded Linux Development and Services





From msapiro at value.net  Wed Oct 26 22:16:20 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:16:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help!
In-Reply-To: <00a901c5da56$6dad1730$4fa28840@yourxb2x7j77gn>
Message-ID: <PC17402005102613162006094ed8bbb5@msapiro>

Jim & Marlowe Futrell wrote:
>
>We use this software and continue to get the following error message (see below).  Is there anything that can be adjusted in order to send larger messages?  Also, we can not send messages with attached files.  What can we do to rectify this situation?


Are you the list admin or just a member of the list?

If you are the list admin, you can adjust the maximum allowable message
size on the list's General Options page. If not, you can discuss this
with the list owner or as another reply suggests, you can put large
things on a web site and just post URLs to the list.

If the attached file problem is because posts with attached files are
too big, see the previous paragraph. If it is because the attachments
are being stripped out, see the list's Content filtering page or
discuss this with the list owner.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at python.org  Wed Oct 26 22:16:31 2005
From: brad at python.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 22:16:31 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "bounce" message from misconfigured mail
 host(s) [postoffice@xizor.is.scarlet.be: Returned mail: User unknown]
In-Reply-To: <20051026154845.GE17724@schlund.de>
References: <20051026154845.GE17724@schlund.de>
Message-ID: <p06200723bf859444fb89@[10.0.1.210]>

At 5:48 PM +0200 2005-10-26, Hannah Schroeter wrote:

>  I'm getting "bounces" like this from a misconfigured site which bounces
>  to the header From instead of the envelope from.
>
>  Perhaps that recipient should just be removed from the list?
>
>  The "bounce" has envelope from
>    jean.jacques.blanckaert at tiscali.be
>    (should be empty!)
>  header from
>    postoffice at xizor.is.scarlet.be
>  and stems from
>    [193.74.71.21] (helo=xizor.is.scarlet.be)
>    (helo matches the reverse-mapping of the IP, double reverse check
>    matches)

	This user has already been removed from the list.  The problem is 
at tiscali.be, but we're not going to wait for them to get their 
system fixed.

	In the future, please report these kinds of problems to 
mailman-users-owner at python.org, or postmaster at python.org.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at python.org>          Python.org Postmaster Team


From winkelmann at webnauts.net  Thu Oct 27 10:25:21 2005
From: winkelmann at webnauts.net (Jan-Simon Winkelmann)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:25:21 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Postfix virtual Domains
Message-ID: <43608EF1.7000608@webnauts.net>

Hi!

As I posted previously, I am running a postfix/cyrus mailserver combination
along with mailman.
There is no problem with the mailing lists as long as I stick to the 
original
configuration for the domain:

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'webnauts.net'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.webnauts.net'
MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['webnauts.net']
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

As soon as I change the config to:

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.webnauts.net'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.webnauts.net'
MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.webnauts.net']
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

I want this so I i can still have the same mail aliases on the 
lists.webnauts.net virtual domain
as i have on my main domain.

Problem being: if i now try to post to a list created with the modified 
configuration, i get an error
from the MTA, mail getting bounced:

Oct 27 09:57:18 webnauts postfix/smtp[7808]: 820ED608167: 
to=<test2 at lists.webnauts.net>, relay=none, delay=0, status=bounced (mail 
for lists.webnauts.net loops back to myself)

Does anyone know why this happens? I've been googling about this for 
hours and I just can't find anything "proper" on the topic.


best wishes,
Jan


From thomas at btspuhler.com  Thu Oct 27 15:54:20 2005
From: thomas at btspuhler.com (Thomas Spuhler)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 06:54:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem to send e-mil to the list
Message-ID: <200510270654.30410.thomas@btspuhler.com>

I upgraded my server to Mandriva 2006. Since then I cannot send post to the 
mailing list on my server.
When I add a new user I get a confirmation.
When I create a new list, I get a confirmation.
When I post to the list, I get the mseeage the the user doesn't exist.
Whne I post to the list at kostname.domain.com instead of list at domian.com I can 
send the e-mail but of course it comes back.
It looks as if mailman doesn't pick up the correct 2domain.com

I have in mm_cfg.py domain.com as e-mail address for the server.

I am using Kolab 2 and postfix as e-mail setup.

I am running into a dead end
I would appreciate any clue

-- 

Thomas Spuhler

All e-mail from this domain is scanned for viruses
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From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 27 16:10:55 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 07:10:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Postfix virtual Domains
In-Reply-To: <43608EF1.7000608@webnauts.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402005102707105503593affd91e@msapiro>

Jan-Simon Winkelmann wrote:
>
>As soon as I change the config to:
>
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.webnauts.net'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.webnauts.net'
>MTA = 'Postfix'
>POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.webnauts.net']
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>
>I want this so I i can still have the same mail aliases on the 
>lists.webnauts.net virtual domain
>as i have on my main domain.


This may be a clue.


>Problem being: if i now try to post to a list created with the modified 
>configuration, i get an error
>from the MTA, mail getting bounced:
>
>Oct 27 09:57:18 webnauts postfix/smtp[7808]: 820ED608167: 
>to=<test2 at lists.webnauts.net>, relay=none, delay=0, status=bounced (mail 
>for lists.webnauts.net loops back to myself)


This appears to be a postfix configuration problem that has nothing to
do with Mailman per se. However, my ignorant guess is that you have
entries for the same list name in both domains in your
'virtual-mailman' file and this is causing the confusion. At this
point, you may have to hand edit your 'aliases' and 'virtual-mailman'
files and run postalias and postmap.

Also, you don't say, and it has nothing to do with the problem, but if
you want the new mail domain for lists created prior to changing
mm_cfg.py, you need to manually change host_name on the General
Options page for those lists or run fix_url (run bin/fux_url.py for
instructions).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dhollis at AandOConsultancy.ltd.uk  Thu Oct 27 16:13:40 2005
From: dhollis at AandOConsultancy.ltd.uk (David J.B.Hollis)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 15:13:40 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Standard Variable for the Sender
Message-ID: <DFC25C8D-46F3-11DA-9097-000393104B36@AandOConsultancy.ltd.uk>

What is the standard variable for the Sender?

TIA
David



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 27 16:23:22 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 07:23:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem to send e-mil to the list
In-Reply-To: <200510270654.30410.thomas@btspuhler.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005102707232202032e172021@msapiro>

Thomas Spuhler wrote:
>
>I upgraded my server to Mandriva 2006. Since then I cannot send post to the
>mailing list on my server.
>When I add a new user I get a confirmation.
>When I create a new list, I get a confirmation.
>When I post to the list, I get the mseeage the the user doesn't exist.


This appears to be an MTA configuration (aliases?) issue.


>Whne I post to the list at kostname.domain.com instead of list at domian.com I can
>send the e-mail but of course it comes back.


Comes back from what with what reason? Do you mean it comes back from
mailman? If so, with what reason. Offhand, I can't think of any reason
why Mailman wouldn't accept it except maybe 'implicit destination' and
this should result in a held message, not a reject.


>It looks as if mailman doesn't pick up the correct 2domain.com


It looks to me like a MTA (postfix) configuration issue.


>I have in mm_cfg.py domain.com as e-mail address for the server.
>
>I am using Kolab 2 and postfix as e-mail setup.


Or maybe it's a Kolab 2/postfix issue. I don't think it's Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From darich at omni-infosec.com  Thu Oct 27 16:27:09 2005
From: darich at omni-infosec.com (Darich Runyan/OMNI INFOSEC HQ)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:27:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman without hosting mail server
Message-ID: <451646DB-E34D-49D8-9759-39A157306F3A@omni-infosec.com>

All,

New to the list and mailman so please go easy.  ;^)  I did check the  
archives as well as did some extensive searching online and was  
unable to find an answer to my question.  My company's email is  
hosted by an email provider.  This has not been a bad arrangement;  
however, now we would like to provide some email lists.  Is it  
possible to host mailman and lists without hosting our own mail?  If  
it is possible would any of you please point me to some documentation  
or possibly point me in the right direction?

Thanks in advance,
Darich




From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 27 16:31:52 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 07:31:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Standard Variable for the Sender
In-Reply-To: <DFC25C8D-46F3-11DA-9097-000393104B36@AandOConsultancy.ltd.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510270731520625be44d765@msapiro>

David J.B.Hollis wrote:

>What is the standard variable for the Sender?

In what context? If you mean for replacement in list headers and
footers, there isn't one. It's in the From: header unless the list is
anonymous, and why is the list anonymous if you want to reveal the
sender in a list header or footer? I suppose there might be some spam
filter reason if that is in fact the setup, but anyway, there's no
header/footer replacement variable for the sender.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 27 17:01:20 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 08:01:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman without hosting mail server
In-Reply-To: <451646DB-E34D-49D8-9759-39A157306F3A@omni-infosec.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005102708012002187410840e@msapiro>

Darich Runyan/OMNI INFOSEC HQ wrote:
>
>New to the list and mailman so please go easy.  ;^)  I did check the  
>archives as well as did some extensive searching online and was  
>unable to find an answer to my question.  My company's email is  
>hosted by an email provider.  This has not been a bad arrangement;  
>however, now we would like to provide some email lists.  Is it  
>possible to host mailman and lists without hosting our own mail?  If  
>it is possible would any of you please point me to some documentation  
>or possibly point me in the right direction?


Yes, but it's not too easy. Using an external outgoing mail server is
easily configured in Mailman and may work, but there may problems with
the server not wanting to 'relay' your outgoing mail, at least without
authorization. If this is the case, there is a simple patch for
username/password authorization.

Using an external server for incoming list mail is more complicated and
usually requires something like fetchmail to get the mail from the
server and something like procmail or maybe Mailman's 'maildir'
feature to get the mail to Mailman.

See
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-October/047082.html
for a little more detail and the above mentioned patch.

Also search this list's archives for things like 'external mail server'
and 'fetchmail'.

>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jdennis at redhat.com  Thu Oct 27 17:02:28 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:02:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman without hosting mail server
In-Reply-To: <451646DB-E34D-49D8-9759-39A157306F3A@omni-infosec.com>
References: <451646DB-E34D-49D8-9759-39A157306F3A@omni-infosec.com>
Message-ID: <1130425348.7801.56.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Thu, 2005-10-27 at 10:27 -0400, Darich Runyan/OMNI INFOSEC HQ wrote:
> All,
> 
> New to the list and mailman so please go easy.  ;^)  I did check the  
> archives as well as did some extensive searching online and was  
> unable to find an answer to my question.  My company's email is  
> hosted by an email provider.  This has not been a bad arrangement;  
> however, now we would like to provide some email lists.  Is it  
> possible to host mailman and lists without hosting our own mail?  If  
> it is possible would any of you please point me to some documentation  
> or possibly point me in the right direction?

The general answer is no. The standard mailman deployment requires
access at the root (e.g. admin) level to the mail transport agent (MTA)
and the web server. There are various schemes whereby one can decouple
these components and some folks have tried this, I cannot comment on
their success or satisfaction. But there are two things to be aware of
here. 1) Setting up a decoupling strategy requires a moderately
sophisticated knowledge of how the various components work, if you have
that level of expertise you probably could be doing your own hosting
instead of relying on an external hosting vendor. 2) Many hosting
vendors provide mailman mailing lists as part of their hosting package.
If your company prefers to use a hosting vendor, and there are many fine
reasons for that decision, then perhaps the path of least resistance and
greatest success to select a hosting vendor that provides mailman
support in addition to the other services your company needs.

FWIW, I've had good luck with www.dreamhost.com, they offer many
excellent features on their accounts for a very reasonable fee. I'm not
affiliated with the company at all. Although I'm more than qualified to
provide my own hosting for my personal computing endeavors I believe the
approximate $10/month for what I get is not worth the headache of DIY
(Do It Yourself), YMMV. A little bit of searching will yield a number of
other hosting companies with mailman support.

One caveat, if you do go with the hosted solution you won't be able to
perform some of the fine grained administration tasks you'll see
discussed here (using the command line utilities) because that requires
root level access to the server. In practice I tend to believe that is
not a huge issue, but you should be aware it is a limitation.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From darich at omni-infosec.com  Thu Oct 27 17:10:19 2005
From: darich at omni-infosec.com (Darich Runyan/OMNI INFOSEC HQ)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:10:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman without hosting mail server
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005102708012002187410840e@msapiro>
References: <PC17402005102708012002187410840e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <A05A814D-B736-42FC-A0B7-8441724F7836@omni-infosec.com>

Thanks for the quick reply.  I was afraid that it was possible but  
would be very complex/time consuming.  I guess I will look into  
either migrating hosting of our email in-house, or as John Dennis  
pointed out, finding a hosting company that provides list services.

Thanks again,
Darich

On Oct 27, 2005, at 11:01 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Darich Runyan/OMNI INFOSEC HQ wrote:
>
>>
>> New to the list and mailman so please go easy.  ;^)  I did check the
>> archives as well as did some extensive searching online and was
>> unable to find an answer to my question.  My company's email is
>> hosted by an email provider.  This has not been a bad arrangement;
>> however, now we would like to provide some email lists.  Is it
>> possible to host mailman and lists without hosting our own mail?  If
>> it is possible would any of you please point me to some documentation
>> or possibly point me in the right direction?
>>
>
>
> Yes, but it's not too easy. Using an external outgoing mail server is
> easily configured in Mailman and may work, but there may problems with
> the server not wanting to 'relay' your outgoing mail, at least without
> authorization. If this is the case, there is a simple patch for
> username/password authorization.
>
> Using an external server for incoming list mail is more complicated  
> and
> usually requires something like fetchmail to get the mail from the
> server and something like procmail or maybe Mailman's 'maildir'
> feature to get the mail to Mailman.
>
> See
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-October/ 
> 047082.html
> for a little more detail and the above mentioned patch.
>
> Also search this list's archives for things like 'external mail  
> server'
> and 'fetchmail'.
>
>
>> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users% 
>> 40python.org/
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>

---
Darich Runyan
President/Principal Consultant
Omni Infosec Ltd.
734 Thimble Shoals Blvd.
Newport News, VA 23606
757-876-3805




From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 27 17:23:33 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 08:23:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman without hosting mail server
In-Reply-To: <A05A814D-B736-42FC-A0B7-8441724F7836@omni-infosec.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005102708233307506e91cd6f@msapiro>

Darich Runyan/OMNI INFOSEC HQ wrote:

>Thanks for the quick reply.  I was afraid that it was possible but  
>would be very complex/time consuming.  I guess I will look into  
>either migrating hosting of our email in-house, or as John Dennis  
>pointed out, finding a hosting company that provides list services.

One more thing you might consider which I think works well for some is
if you are willing to have your lists in a separate domain from your
main email domain, you can run an MTA on your Mailman host just for
the lists.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From damico.1 at osu.edu  Thu Oct 27 17:33:13 2005
From: damico.1 at osu.edu (JOSEPH DAMICO)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:33:13 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] the "shunt" mail queue
Message-ID: <333630833318fb.33318fb3336308@osu.edu>

Hello,

I sent a message to a mailman list on my server.  The message was not delivered.   At first, I got a mesage indicating that sendmail was not running with group=mailman.  So I stopped and started sendmail with group=mailman.  This allowed the mail to get as far as the "in" queue but could go no farther.  Permission errors during processing clued me into the idea of stopping and re-starting sendmail with user=mailman and group=mailman.  Now, I see no error messages, but the notes I post to the list are ending up in the "shunt" queue. 

Any idea what I'm doing wrong here?

Joe Damico
damico.1 at osu.edu



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 27 17:47:08 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 08:47:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] the "shunt" mail queue
In-Reply-To: <333630833318fb.33318fb3336308@osu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510270847080984be44d8a0@msapiro>

JOSEPH DAMICO wrote:

>Now, I see no error messages, but the notes I post to the list are ending up in the "shunt" queue. 
>
>Any idea what I'm doing wrong here?

No, but there should be a detailed error report in Mailman's error log
for each shunted message.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 27 17:52:43 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 08:52:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] the "shunt" mail queue
In-Reply-To: <333630833318fb.33318fb3336308@osu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC174020051027085243048413da100f@msapiro>

JOSEPH DAMICO wrote:
>
>I sent a message to a mailman list on my server.  The message was not delivered.   At first, I got a mesage indicating that sendmail was not running with group=mailman.  So I stopped and started sendmail with group=mailman.  This allowed the mail to get as far as the "in" queue but could go no farther.  Permission errors during processing clued me into the idea of stopping and re-starting sendmail with user=mailman and group=mailman.  Now, I see no error messages, but the notes I post to the list are ending up in the "shunt" queue. 
>


Actually, running from the group that the wrapper expects should be
sufficient. The fact that it wasn't indicates you still have
permission problems in your Mailman hierarchy. Run

bin/check_perms

as root. If there are errors, run

bin/check_perms -f

until they're gone.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lists05 at equinephotoart.com  Thu Oct 27 19:18:55 2005
From: lists05 at equinephotoart.com (JC Dill)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 10:18:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman without hosting mail server
In-Reply-To: <A05A814D-B736-42FC-A0B7-8441724F7836@omni-infosec.com>
References: <PC17402005102708012002187410840e@msapiro>
	<A05A814D-B736-42FC-A0B7-8441724F7836@omni-infosec.com>
Message-ID: <43610BFF.7040006@equinephotoart.com>

Darich Runyan/OMNI INFOSEC HQ wrote:
> Thanks for the quick reply.  I was afraid that it was possible but  
> would be very complex/time consuming.  I guess I will look into  
> either migrating hosting of our email in-house, or as John Dennis  
> pointed out, finding a hosting company that provides list services.

Of these two choices, finding a better host is by FAR the easier answer. 
  Migrating and running email in house can be very difficult.  You have 
to deal with:

	Spam
	Viruses
	Sending email from many locations (for mobile users)
	(While avoiding having an open relay)
	Setting up a list manager
	Providing webmail options

A good host does all these things for you.  The small price for hosted 
email (and hosted websites) is usually far less than the labor costs for 
the employees and/or consultants needed to bring email services in-house 
for most small businesses.  Only when your hosting costs start to 
approach the cost for an IT person's salary should most businesses 
consider bringing these services in-house.  (There are exceptions, if 
you happen to have someone who is already expert in all these skills 
in-house, doing other tasks, who can do this stuff in "spare time".  But 
most small businesses who are using hosted email don't have someone who 
knows all of this and who has extra time to deal with all these tasks.)

jc




From damico.1 at osu.edu  Thu Oct 27 19:39:01 2005
From: damico.1 at osu.edu (JOSEPH DAMICO)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 13:39:01 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] the "shunt" mail queue
Message-ID: <33c0cb833bf5bb.33bf5bb33c0cb8@osu.edu>

Many thanks, Mark.

I had run check_perms earlier (when I installed), but must have messed up a few permissions since then.  This fixed eveything.

Excellent suggestion!

Joe


----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
Date: Thursday, October 27, 2005 11:52 am
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] the "shunt" mail queue

> JOSEPH DAMICO wrote:
> >
> >I sent a message to a mailman list on my server.  The message was 
> not delivered.   At first, I got a mesage indicating that sendmail 
> was not running with group=mailman.  So I stopped and started 
> sendmail with group=mailman.  This allowed the mail to get as far 
> as the "in" queue but could go no farther.  Permission errors 
> during processing clued me into the idea of stopping and re-
> starting sendmail with user=mailman and group=mailman.  Now, I see 
> no error messages, but the notes I post to the list are ending up 
> in the "shunt" queue. 
> >
> 
> 
> Actually, running from the group that the wrapper expects should be
> sufficient. The fact that it wasn't indicates you still have
> permission problems in your Mailman hierarchy. Run
> 
> bin/check_perms
> 
> as root. If there are errors, run
> 
> bin/check_perms -f
> 
> until they're gone.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From scott at fyrenice.com  Thu Oct 27 21:25:03 2005
From: scott at fyrenice.com (Dr. Scott S. Jones)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 13:25:03 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] icon location and defaults
Message-ID: <20051027192503.GA7681@xmission.com>

What controls icons and whether they display or not? It seems that when I am
at my office, the three icons at the bottom of the mailman admin page
display, but when accessing it remotely, they do NOT display. 

Also, where is the icon for the URL, which is supposed to display when
domain.com/mailman/whatever is loaded, the left of the address? On my
system, I just have the Mambo orange flower showing for everything, whether
Mambo, Mailman, or other web apps. 

Scott


From mcs at mchsi.com  Thu Oct 27 21:26:11 2005
From: mcs at mchsi.com (Cathy Slayman)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:26:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posting problems to all users of our
	mailinglist...
References: <PC174020051025200914000092e4b7ce@msapiro>
Message-ID: <0ef401c5db2c$49c0c020$6401a8c0@DD36XC21>

----- Original Message ----- 
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Posting problems to all users of our 
mailinglist...


Troy Cranford wrote:
>
>It got to the point where I just switched web hosts (now bluehost.com) to
>see if we could resolve the problem.  Now I seem to get better coverage of
>the 550 users and, in fact, am now sending to some of the users that were
>not getting our posts before but I'm still not hitting everyone.
>
>Any ideas from ANYONE would be greatly appreciated.  My web host's support
>is next to useless but if someone has something for me to ask I'll send in
>the support request.

I can't see where the techincal suggestions have helped you fix your problem 
or not.  Having just gone through this, and being computer and programing 
challenged I offer my experience.  We set up a list with in excess of 700 
members that average 80 posts a day.  We actualy moved the membership list 
from a majordomo list to our shared server.  When we were getting 
practically no mail delivered, to the list as well as to list members, and 
all but pulling our hair out, we were finally told by our hosting company 
that the list would not work on the shared server we were on!  The server 
settings only allowed 350 posts an hour to or from any given domain email 
list.

After purchasing a dedicated server, and putting the domain and list on a 
dedicated IP, things improved a lot.  However, we continued to have some 
serious problems with mail delivery.  Bounces were driving us nuts.  Now 
that we have ferreted out all the member addresses that are not longer 
valid, shortened the time a given message can stay in the mail queue, 
discovered that some email accounts have a from and slightly different reply 
to address  and making a subscription for the reply to address, setting that 
one to no mail, we are now enjoying the list.

I hope I have not given bad suggestions and this helps if you are still 
having problems.

Cathy 



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.361 / Virus Database: 267.12.5/150 - Release Date: 10/27/2005



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Oct 27 23:02:01 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:02:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] icon location and defaults
In-Reply-To: <20051027192503.GA7681@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020051027140201020313da0ecc@msapiro>

Dr. Scott S. Jones wrote:

>What controls icons and whether they display or not? It seems that when I am
>at my office, the three icons at the bottom of the mailman admin page
>display, but when accessing it remotely, they do NOT display. 


The first control is the Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py setting for IMAGE_LOGOS.
The default is IMAGE_LOGOS = '/icons/'. If IMAGE_LOGOS = 0, no icons
will be displayed.

With the default setting, the generated HTML tag for the mailman logo is

<img src="/icons/mailman.jpg" alt="Delivered by Mailman" border=0>

and similarly for the other logos. This means the browser will look in
the host's document root directory for the /icons/ directory and
therein for the logo files, or if /icons/ is aliased to another
directory in the web server, the icon files should be in the aliased
directory.

If you see the logos from your office but not from home, perhaps you
are not using the same URL (host name part) to access the pages or
perhaps there are access controls on the icons directory that only
allow access from your office network.


>Also, where is the icon for the URL, which is supposed to display when
>domain.com/mailman/whatever is loaded, the left of the address? On my
>system, I just have the Mambo orange flower showing for everything, whether
>Mambo, Mailman, or other web apps. 


Again, the generated html contains

<LINK REL="SHORTCUT ICON" HREF="/icons/mm-icon.png">

where the /icons/ part comes from the IMAGE_LOGOS setting and the
mm-icon.png part comes from the SHORTCUT_ICON setting. with most
browsers, this will display the mm-icon.png image next to the URL.

So the key to all of this is to make sure that all 5 .jpg and .png
files (or at least 4 - mailman-large.jpg isn't used) from Mailman's
icons/ directory are copied to a web accessible directory (usually the
same one that already contains the web server's icons) and that
IMAGE_LOGOS specifies the correct base path of the directory or a path
which is aliased to the directory.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From thomas at btspuhler.com  Fri Oct 28 04:16:58 2005
From: thomas at btspuhler.com (Thomas Spuhler)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 19:16:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem to send e-mil to the list
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005102707232202032e172021@msapiro>
References: <PC17402005102707232202032e172021@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200510271916.58405.thomas@btspuhler.com>

On Thursday 27 October 2005 07:23 am, you wrote:
> Thomas Spuhler wrote:
> >I upgraded my server to Mandriva 2006. Since then I cannot send post to
> > the mailing list on my server.
> >When I add a new user I get a confirmation.
> >When I create a new list, I get a confirmation.
> >When I post to the list, I get the mseeage the the user doesn't exist.
>
> This appears to be an MTA configuration (aliases?) issue.
You are very likely right

>
> >Whne I post to the list at kostname.domain.com instead of list at domian.com I
> > can send the e-mail but of course it comes back.
>
> Comes back from what with what reason? Do you mean it comes back from
> mailman? If so, with what reason. Offhand, I can't think of any reason
> why Mailman wouldn't accept it except maybe 'implicit destination' and
> this should result in a held message, not a reject.


Sending failed:
Message sending failed since the following recipients were rejected by the 
server:
spuhlerfam at btspuhler.com (The server responded: "<spuhlerfam at btspuhler.com>: 
Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table")
The message will stay in the 'outbox' folder until you either fix the problem 
(e.g. a broken address) or remove the message from the 'outbox' folder.
The following transport protocol was used:
Kolab Server

>
> >It looks as if mailman doesn't pick up the correct 2domain.com
>
> It looks to me like a MTA (postfix) configuration issue.
>
> >I have in mm_cfg.py domain.com as e-mail address for the server.
> >
> >I am using Kolab 2 and postfix as e-mail setup.
>
> Or maybe it's a Kolab 2/postfix issue. I don't think it's Mailman.

No but I don't know how to solve it. I am probably missing something in the 
postfix configuration. How does postfix get to know the mailman mailing 
lists? where does it get the mailing list address.

My mm_cfg.py has this:
###############################################
# Here's where we get the distributed defaults.

from Defaults import *

##################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'btspuhler.com'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.btspuhler.com'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
MTA = 'Postfix'

all I added in main.cf is this, the hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
as

alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases


-- 

Thomas Spuhler

All e-mail from this domain is scanned for viruses
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From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 28 05:32:29 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 20:32:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem to send e-mil to the list
In-Reply-To: <200510271916.58405.thomas@btspuhler.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510272032290906e61a4847@msapiro>

Thomas Spuhler wrote:
>
>On Thursday 27 October 2005 07:23 am, you wrote:
>> Thomas Spuhler wrote:
>>
>> >Whne I post to the list at kostname.domain.com instead of list at domian.com I
>> > can send the e-mail but of course it comes back.
>>
>> Comes back from what with what reason? Do you mean it comes back from
>> mailman? If so, with what reason. Offhand, I can't think of any reason
>> why Mailman wouldn't accept it except maybe 'implicit destination' and
>> this should result in a held message, not a reject.
>
>
>Sending failed:
>Message sending failed since the following recipients were rejected by the
>server:
>spuhlerfam at btspuhler.com (The server responded: "<spuhlerfam at btspuhler.com>:
>Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table")
>The message will stay in the 'outbox' folder until you either fix the problem
>(e.g. a broken address) or remove the message from the 'outbox' folder.
>The following transport protocol was used:
>Kolab Server


This message comes from postfix and is telling you it doesn't know how
to deliver to spuhlerfam at btspuhler.com. It is quite likely that your
aliases are not configured in postfix in the right way. If things are
properly configured, I don't think it will be using the Kolab Server
transport protocol.

>>
>> >It looks as if mailman doesn't pick up the correct 2domain.com
>>
>> It looks to me like a MTA (postfix) configuration issue.
>>
>> >I have in mm_cfg.py domain.com as e-mail address for the server.
>> >
>> >I am using Kolab 2 and postfix as e-mail setup.
>>
>> Or maybe it's a Kolab 2/postfix issue. I don't think it's Mailman.
>
>No but I don't know how to solve it. I am probably missing something in the
>postfix configuration. How does postfix get to know the mailman mailing
>lists? where does it get the mailing list address.
>
>My mm_cfg.py has this:
>###############################################
># Here's where we get the distributed defaults.
>
>from Defaults import *
>
>##################################################
># Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'btspuhler.com'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.btspuhler.com'
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>MTA = 'Postfix'
>
>all I added in main.cf is this, the hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
>as
>
>alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases


With MTA = 'Postfix', when you create a list, Mailman puts a bunch of
aliases in /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases. They look something like

list:              "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post list"
list-admin:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin list"
list-bounces:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces list"
list-confirm:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm list"
list-join:         "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join list"
list-leave:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave list"
list-owner:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner list"
list-request:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request list"
list-subscribe:    "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe list"
list-unsubscribe:  "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe list"

Mailman then calls the POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD which in your case is the
default '/usr/sbin/postalias' to update the aliases.db file. It is
these aliases together with the above alias_maps in the postfix config
that tell postfix how to deliver to 'list'.

In your case, something is wrong with the aliases or aliases.db files
content or permissions or they aren't where postfix thinks they are or
something in the postfix configuration, perhaps having to do with
Kolab 2, is interfering with postfix's use of the aliases, or ??

See http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html and subordinates.
If you still can't figure it out, try a postfix support list. This is
not a Mailman problem. The mail never gets to Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jsmokebreak at sbcglobal.net  Fri Oct 28 05:38:48 2005
From: jsmokebreak at sbcglobal.net (jeremy)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 22:38:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help
Message-ID: <43619D48.6030100@sbcglobal.net>

i am having serious problems with mailman.
we have nearly 700 members on our mailing list, and only some people are 
getting mail.
i have reviewed the help sections, but need to know, step-by-step,
how to export the email addresses from the list.
can you please help me?
jeremy


From jsmokebreak at sbcglobal.net  Fri Oct 28 05:56:57 2005
From: jsmokebreak at sbcglobal.net (jeremy)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 22:56:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help
Message-ID: <4361A189.1070504@sbcglobal.net>

i am having serious problems with mailman.
we have nearly 700 members on our mailing list, and only some people are 
getting mail.
i have reviewed the help sections, but need to know, step-by-step,
how to export the email addresses from the list.
can you please help me?
jeremy


From thomas at btspuhler.com  Fri Oct 28 06:56:06 2005
From: thomas at btspuhler.com (Thomas Spuhler)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 21:56:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem to send e-mil to the list
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510272032290906e61a4847@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200510272032290906e61a4847@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200510272156.06694.thomas@btspuhler.com>

On Thursday 27 October 2005 08:32 pm, you wrote:
> Thomas Spuhler wrote:
> >On Thursday 27 October 2005 07:23 am, you wrote:
> >> Thomas Spuhler wrote:
> >> >Whne I post to the list at kostname.domain.com instead of list at domian.com
> >> > I can send the e-mail but of course it comes back.
> >>
> >> Comes back from what with what reason? Do you mean it comes back from
> >> mailman? If so, with what reason. Offhand, I can't think of any reason
> >> why Mailman wouldn't accept it except maybe 'implicit destination' and
> >> this should result in a held message, not a reject.
> >
> >Sending failed:
> >Message sending failed since the following recipients were rejected by the
> >server:
> >spuhlerfam at btspuhler.com (The server responded:
> > "<spuhlerfam at btspuhler.com>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in
> > local recipient table") The message will stay in the 'outbox' folder
> > until you either fix the problem (e.g. a broken address) or remove the
> > message from the 'outbox' folder. The following transport protocol was
> > used:
> >Kolab Server
>
> This message comes from postfix and is telling you it doesn't know how
> to deliver to spuhlerfam at btspuhler.com. It is quite likely that your
> aliases are not configured in postfix in the right way. If things are
> properly configured, I don't think it will be using the Kolab Server
> transport protocol.
What is required in postfix for mailman aliases, alias_maps, alias_database
where does postfix get the mailman list addresses from?


>
> >> >It looks as if mailman doesn't pick up the correct 2domain.com
> >>
> >> It looks to me like a MTA (postfix) configuration issue.
> >>
> >> >I have in mm_cfg.py domain.com as e-mail address for the server.
> >> >
> >> >I am using Kolab 2 and postfix as e-mail setup.
> >>
> >> Or maybe it's a Kolab 2/postfix issue. I don't think it's Mailman.
> >
> >No but I don't know how to solve it. I am probably missing something in
> > the postfix configuration. How does postfix get to know the mailman
> > mailing lists? where does it get the mailing list address.
> >
> >My mm_cfg.py has this:
> >###############################################
> ># Here's where we get the distributed defaults.
> >
> >from Defaults import *
> >
> >##################################################
> ># Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
> >DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'btspuhler.com'
> >DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.btspuhler.com'
> >add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
> >MTA = 'Postfix'
> >
> >all I added in main.cf is this, the hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
> >as
> >
> >alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
>
> With MTA = 'Postfix', when you create a list, Mailman puts a bunch of
> aliases in /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases. They look something like
>
> list:              "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post list"
> list-admin:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin list"
> list-bounces:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces list"
> list-confirm:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm list"
> list-join:         "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join list"
> list-leave:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave list"
> list-owner:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner list"
> list-request:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request list"
> list-subscribe:    "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe list"
> list-unsubscribe:  "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe list"

these are in there for three lists. When I add a list member using the WEB 
interface and click on notify list owner, or if I add myself to the list, I 
get notified. (I receive the e-mail.
The /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db gets updated.
For what is the systemwide mailing list "mailman" used?


>
> Mailman then calls the POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD which in your case is the
> default '/usr/sbin/postalias' to update the aliases.db file. It is
> these aliases together with the above alias_maps in the postfix config
> that tell postfix how to deliver to 'list'.
>
> In your case, something is wrong with the aliases or aliases.db files
> content or permissions or they aren't where postfix thinks they are or
> something in the postfix configuration, perhaps having to do with
> Kolab 2, is interfering with postfix's use of the aliases, or ??
>
> See http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html and subordinates.
> If you still can't figure it out, try a postfix support list. This is
> not a Mailman problem. The mail never gets to Mailman.
I was on this site already. Seems kind of outdated? or Mandriva just installs 
it very differently.

-- 
Best regards
Thomas Spuhler

All e-mail from this domain is scanned for viruses
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From shillong at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 07:06:57 2005
From: shillong at gmail.com (Shillong Dotcom)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:36:57 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman <==> vBulletin works fine for me..
Message-ID: <23e021a50510272206w330236ddo779b7a7f2f7aea6b@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
 Just wanted share my experience with Mailman and vBuleltin.
I am using VB as an archiver for Mailman messages.
Pls hv a look at: http://www.asiasrc.org/forum3.5/
 Regards,
 Babul Gogoi
www.assamcompany.com <http://www.assamcompany.com>


From shillong at gmail.com  Fri Oct 28 07:09:35 2005
From: shillong at gmail.com (Shillong Dotcom)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:39:35 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migrating Lists to a new server
In-Reply-To: <43B3ADA0-529D-4EE5-AE86-F7E997F8E90B@aimaudit.com>
References: <20051017183430.173777AE@mail.tuunq.com>
	<43B3ADA0-529D-4EE5-AE86-F7E997F8E90B@aimaudit.com>
Message-ID: <23e021a50510272209m1a14c830wc4522c02dfab6f82@mail.gmail.com>

Moving a Mailman list hosted on a cPanel based server is very easy
(preferbly to another cPanel based server). Just take a full-site abckup and
restore the tar file in the new server. All settings, archives move
smoothly.

 On 10/18/05, Dennis Putnam <dennis.putnam at aimaudit.com> wrote:
>
> That was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks.
>
> On Oct 17, 2005, at 2:34 PM, Carl Zwanzig wrote:
>
> > In a flurry of recycled electrons, Dennis Putnam wrote:
> >
> >> Can someone point me to some documentation for migrating mailman
> >> lists and archives to a new server? Thanks.
> >>
> >
> >
> >> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> >>
> > While the search engine appears to be out of service, the index isn't.
> >
> >
> >> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%
> >> 40python.org/ <http://40python.org/>
> >>
> >
> > Start with
> > http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.004.htp
> >
> > z!
> >
> >
>
> Dennis Putnam
> Sr. IT Systems Administrator
> AIM Systems, Inc.
> 11675 Rainwater Dr., Suite 200
> Alpharetta, GA 30004
> Phone: 678-240-4112
> Main Phone: 678-297-0700
> FAX: 678-297-2666 or 770-576-1000
> The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments is
> strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any
> use, dissemination, distribution, or duplication of any part of this
> e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all
> copies, including the attachments.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/shillong%40gmail.com
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>



--
www.Shillong.com <http://www.Shillong.com>


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 28 07:18:26 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 22:18:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem to send e-mil to the list
In-Reply-To: <200510272156.06694.thomas@btspuhler.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510272218260515eb510b1d@msapiro>

Thomas Spuhler wrote:
>
>On Thursday 27 October 2005 08:32 pm, you wrote:
>>
>> This message comes from postfix and is telling you it doesn't know how
>> to deliver to spuhlerfam at btspuhler.com. It is quite likely that your
>> aliases are not configured in postfix in the right way. If things are
>> properly configured, I don't think it will be using the Kolab Server
>> transport protocol.
>What is required in postfix for mailman aliases, alias_maps, alias_database
>where does postfix get the mailman list addresses from?


See below


>>
>> With MTA = 'Postfix', when you create a list, Mailman puts a bunch of
>> aliases in /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases. They look something like
>>
>> list:              "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post list"
>> list-admin:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin list"
>> list-bounces:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces list"
>> list-confirm:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm list"
>> list-join:         "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join list"
>> list-leave:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave list"
>> list-owner:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner list"
>> list-request:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request list"
>> list-subscribe:    "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe list"
>> list-unsubscribe:  "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe list"
>
>these are in there for three lists. When I add a list member using the WEB
>interface and click on notify list owner, or if I add myself to the list, I
>get notified. (I receive the e-mail.


An owner notification may be sent to 'list-owner' which if received
would indicate that mail to 'list-owner' originating from 'localhost'
is properly delivered back to Mailman, so something may work, but mail
to 'list' originating from wherever you send it from doesn't seem to
work.


>The /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db gets updated.
>For what is the systemwide mailing list "mailman" used?


See the FAQ, Article 4.25
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py


>>
>> Mailman then calls the POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD which in your case is the
>> default '/usr/sbin/postalias' to update the aliases.db file. It is
>> these aliases together with the above alias_maps in the postfix config
>> that tell postfix how to deliver to 'list'.
>>
>> In your case, something is wrong with the aliases or aliases.db files
>> content or permissions or they aren't where postfix thinks they are or
>> something in the postfix configuration, perhaps having to do with
>> Kolab 2, is interfering with postfix's use of the aliases, or ??
>>
>> See http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html and subordinates.
>> If you still can't figure it out, try a postfix support list. This is
>> not a Mailman problem. The mail never gets to Mailman.
>I was on this site already. Seems kind of outdated? or Mandriva just installs
>it very differently.

I think the manual is current, but I don't use postfix, so I don't know
for sure.

As I said before, there isn't any more I can offer you. There are
others on this list who know more about configuring postfix than I do,
but this is a Mailman list. You might find more help from a postfix
list or from your packager.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 28 07:29:26 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 22:29:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help
In-Reply-To: <4361A189.1070504@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <PC174020051027222926000077978eba@msapiro>

jeremy wrote:

>i am having serious problems with mailman.
>we have nearly 700 members on our mailing list, and only some people are 
>getting mail.
>i have reviewed the help sections, but need to know, step-by-step,
>how to export the email addresses from the list.
>can you please help me?


The steps differ depending on what you want and whether Mailman is on
your server or elswhere, what kind of access you have to the server if
any or if you just have access to the web admin pages for your list.
So someone may be able to help you if you describe your configuration.

Also, see the FAQ
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Articles 1.22 and 1.23, and search the archives of this list (see FAQ
1.18). This question has been answered many times on this list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk  Fri Oct 28 09:53:03 2005
From: mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk (Mark.A.Lombardo)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 08:53:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051027222926000077978eba@msapiro>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAArGWueTZUEkSYNsOwWJNPwsKAAAAQAAAAxpAWLzNks0quyaFUqQ/bjQEAAAAA@olney-scout-group.org.uk>

Please can someone help me? I have set a distribution list using mailman and
my isp. I have set the replies to poster, but the whole list is receiving
the replies, and it is annoying members of the list. Please people have
discussed the confidentially issue.


Kind Regards

Mark




From hannah at schlund.de  Fri Oct 28 11:38:33 2005
From: hannah at schlund.de (Hannah Schroeter)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:38:33 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAArGWueTZUEkSYNsOwWJNPwsKAAAAQAAAAxpAWLzNks0quyaFUqQ/bjQEAAAAA@olney-scout-group.org.uk>
References: <PC174020051027222926000077978eba@msapiro>
	<!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAArGWueTZUEkSYNsOwWJNPwsKAAAAQAAAAxpAWLzNks0quyaFUqQ/bjQEAAAAA@olney-scout-group.org.uk>
Message-ID: <20051028093833.GA30626@schlund.de>

Hello!

On Fri, Oct 28, 2005 at 08:53:03AM +0100, Mark.A.Lombardo wrote:
>Please can someone help me? I have set a distribution list using mailman and
>my isp. I have set the replies to poster, but the whole list is receiving
>the replies, and it is annoying members of the list. Please people have
>discussed the confidentially issue.

Two words: User education.

And set the "reply-to header" setting appropriately (i.e. do *not* set
reply-to to the list), if you usually want direct replies to poster.
Oh I read you have already done that.

Then... User education (they should use the reply to sender function,
not group reply or list reply in their MUA if they want their replies to
be private).

If they aren't supposed at all to send to the list, deny them the right
to do so (possible on the web interface). Or set the list to moderated.

>Kind Regards

>Mark

Kind regards,

Hannah.


From mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk  Fri Oct 28 13:39:27 2005
From: mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk (Mark.A.Lombardo)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:39:27 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
In-Reply-To: <20051028093833.GA30626@schlund.de>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAArGWueTZUEkSYNsOwWJNPwsKAAAAQAAAAhUIKAwFwoUmhDGEw0PQe+AEAAAAA@olney-scout-group.org.uk>

It they hit reply, it is redirecting the email to the list, this should not
be the case.  I have set the option to poster, so why does it post to the
list.

Kind Regards

Mark


-----Original Message-----
From:
mailman-users-bounces+mark.a.lombardo=olney-scout-group.org.uk at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+mark.a.lombardo=olney-scout-group.org.uk at pytho
n.org] On Behalf Of Hannah Schroeter
Sent: 28 October 2005 10:39
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Help

Hello!

On Fri, Oct 28, 2005 at 08:53:03AM +0100, Mark.A.Lombardo wrote:
>Please can someone help me? I have set a distribution list using mailman
and
>my isp. I have set the replies to poster, but the whole list is receiving
>the replies, and it is annoying members of the list. Please people have
>discussed the confidentially issue.

Two words: User education.

And set the "reply-to header" setting appropriately (i.e. do *not* set
reply-to to the list), if you usually want direct replies to poster.
Oh I read you have already done that.

Then... User education (they should use the reply to sender function,
not group reply or list reply in their MUA if they want their replies to
be private).

If they aren't supposed at all to send to the list, deny them the right
to do so (possible on the web interface). Or set the list to moderated.

>Kind Regards

>Mark

Kind regards,

Hannah.
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mark.a.lombardo%40olney
-scout-group.org.uk

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp






From mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk  Fri Oct 28 13:40:14 2005
From: mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk (Mark.A.Lombardo)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:40:14 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
In-Reply-To: <20051028093833.GA30626@schlund.de>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAArGWueTZUEkSYNsOwWJNPwsKAAAAQAAAA++4UTjDJqUK2my41khFmzAEAAAAA@olney-scout-group.org.uk>

MUA = ?


-----Original Message-----
From:
mailman-users-bounces+mark.a.lombardo=olney-scout-group.org.uk at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+mark.a.lombardo=olney-scout-group.org.uk at pytho
n.org] On Behalf Of Hannah Schroeter
Sent: 28 October 2005 10:39
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Help

Hello!

On Fri, Oct 28, 2005 at 08:53:03AM +0100, Mark.A.Lombardo wrote:
>Please can someone help me? I have set a distribution list using mailman
and
>my isp. I have set the replies to poster, but the whole list is receiving
>the replies, and it is annoying members of the list. Please people have
>discussed the confidentially issue.

Two words: User education.

And set the "reply-to header" setting appropriately (i.e. do *not* set
reply-to to the list), if you usually want direct replies to poster.
Oh I read you have already done that.

Then... User education (they should use the reply to sender function,
not group reply or list reply in their MUA if they want their replies to
be private).

If they aren't supposed at all to send to the list, deny them the right
to do so (possible on the web interface). Or set the list to moderated.

>Kind Regards

>Mark

Kind regards,

Hannah.
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From hannah at schlund.de  Fri Oct 28 13:50:14 2005
From: hannah at schlund.de (Hannah Schroeter)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:50:14 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAArGWueTZUEkSYNsOwWJNPwsKAAAAQAAAA++4UTjDJqUK2my41khFmzAEAAAAA@olney-scout-group.org.uk>
References: <20051028093833.GA30626@schlund.de>
	<!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAArGWueTZUEkSYNsOwWJNPwsKAAAAQAAAA++4UTjDJqUK2my41khFmzAEAAAAA@olney-scout-group.org.uk>
Message-ID: <20051028115014.GD30626@schlund.de>

Hello!

On Fri, Oct 28, 2005 at 12:40:14PM +0100, Mark.A.Lombardo wrote:
>MUA = ?

Mail user agent.

Kind regards,

Hannah.


From hannah at schlund.de  Fri Oct 28 13:51:13 2005
From: hannah at schlund.de (Hannah Schroeter)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:51:13 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAArGWueTZUEkSYNsOwWJNPwsKAAAAQAAAAhUIKAwFwoUmhDGEw0PQe+AEAAAAA@olney-scout-group.org.uk>
References: <20051028093833.GA30626@schlund.de>
	<!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAArGWueTZUEkSYNsOwWJNPwsKAAAAQAAAAhUIKAwFwoUmhDGEw0PQe+AEAAAAA@olney-scout-group.org.uk>
Message-ID: <20051028115113.GE30626@schlund.de>

Hello!

On Fri, Oct 28, 2005 at 12:39:27PM +0100, Mark.A.Lombardo wrote:
>It they hit reply, it is redirecting the email to the list, this should not
>be the case.  I have set the option to poster, so why does it post to the
>list.

Perhaps the original poster set "reply-to" to the list address.

The setting "poster" does just not add an own reply to, but it leaves
original reply-to headers alone, AFAIK.

Kind regards,

Hannah.


From mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk  Fri Oct 28 14:11:34 2005
From: mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk (Mark.A.Lombardo)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:11:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
In-Reply-To: <20051028115113.GE30626@schlund.de>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAArGWueTZUEkSYNsOwWJNPwsKAAAAQAAAAZTsi0a0cvkK6tfPC3meBsQEAAAAA@olney-scout-group.org.uk>

Hello,

Please for novices around her don't use jargon.  I sent the original
message, and the message stating reply to poster.

Kind Regards

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From:
mailman-users-bounces+mark.a.lombardo=olney-scout-group.org.uk at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+mark.a.lombardo=olney-scout-group.org.uk at pytho
n.org] On Behalf Of Hannah Schroeter
Sent: 28 October 2005 12:51
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Help

Hello!

On Fri, Oct 28, 2005 at 12:39:27PM +0100, Mark.A.Lombardo wrote:
>It they hit reply, it is redirecting the email to the list, this should not
>be the case.  I have set the option to poster, so why does it post to the
>list.

Perhaps the original poster set "reply-to" to the list address.

The setting "poster" does just not add an own reply to, but it leaves
original reply-to headers alone, AFAIK.

Kind regards,

Hannah.
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From hannah at schlund.de  Fri Oct 28 14:24:21 2005
From: hannah at schlund.de (Hannah Schroeter)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:24:21 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAArGWueTZUEkSYNsOwWJNPwsKAAAAQAAAAZTsi0a0cvkK6tfPC3meBsQEAAAAA@olney-scout-group.org.uk>
References: <20051028115113.GE30626@schlund.de>
	<!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAArGWueTZUEkSYNsOwWJNPwsKAAAAQAAAAZTsi0a0cvkK6tfPC3meBsQEAAAAA@olney-scout-group.org.uk>
Message-ID: <20051028122420.GF30626@schlund.de>

Hello!

On Fri, Oct 28, 2005 at 01:11:34PM +0100, Mark.A.Lombardo wrote:
>Hello,

>Please for novices around her don't use jargon.

You get what you pay for.

And I think one can expect for people to educate themselves.

>[...]

Kind regards,

Hannah - slightly annoyed by that attitude of entitlement.


From thomas at btspuhler.com  Fri Oct 28 16:15:11 2005
From: thomas at btspuhler.com (Thomas Spuhler)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 07:15:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem to send e-mil to the list
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510272218260515eb510b1d@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200510272218260515eb510b1d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200510280715.18514.thomas@btspuhler.com>

On Thursday 27 October 2005 10:18 pm, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Thomas Spuhler wrote:
> >On Thursday 27 October 2005 08:32 pm, you wrote:
> >> This message comes from postfix and is telling you it doesn't know how
> >> to deliver to spuhlerfam at btspuhler.com. It is quite likely that your
> >> aliases are not configured in postfix in the right way. If things are
> >> properly configured, I don't think it will be using the Kolab Server
> >> transport protocol.
> >
> >What is required in postfix for mailman aliases, alias_maps,
> > alias_database where does postfix get the mailman list addresses from?
>
> See below
>
> >> With MTA = 'Postfix', when you create a list, Mailman puts a bunch of
> >> aliases in /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases. They look something like
> >>
> >> list:              "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post list"
> >> list-admin:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin list"
> >> list-bounces:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces list"
> >> list-confirm:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm list"
> >> list-join:         "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join list"
> >> list-leave:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave list"
> >> list-owner:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner list"
> >> list-request:      "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request list"
> >> list-subscribe:    "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe list"
> >> list-unsubscribe:  "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe list"
> >
> >these are in there for three lists. When I add a list member using the WEB
> >interface and click on notify list owner, or if I add myself to the list,
> > I get notified. (I receive the e-mail.
>
> An owner notification may be sent to 'list-owner' which if received
> would indicate that mail to 'list-owner' originating from 'localhost'
> is properly delivered back to Mailman, so something may work, but mail
> to 'list' originating from wherever you send it from doesn't seem to
> work.
>
> >The /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db gets updated.
> >For what is the systemwide mailing list "mailman" used?
>
> See the FAQ, Article 4.25
>
> >Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> >
> >> Mailman then calls the POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD which in your case is the
> >> default '/usr/sbin/postalias' to update the aliases.db file. It is
> >> these aliases together with the above alias_maps in the postfix config
> >> that tell postfix how to deliver to 'list'.
> >>
> >> In your case, something is wrong with the aliases or aliases.db files
> >> content or permissions or they aren't where postfix thinks they are or
> >> something in the postfix configuration, perhaps having to do with
> >> Kolab 2, is interfering with postfix's use of the aliases, or ??
> >>
> >> See http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html and subordinates.
> >> If you still can't figure it out, try a postfix support list. This is
> >> not a Mailman problem. The mail never gets to Mailman.
> >
> >I was on this site already. Seems kind of outdated? or Mandriva just
> > installs it very differently.
>
> I think the manual is current, but I don't use postfix, so I don't know
> for sure.
>
> As I said before, there isn't any more I can offer you. 

Thanks. I hope someone has configured it right and may step in.

> There are 
> others on this list who know more about configuring postfix than I do,
> but this is a Mailman list. You might find more help from a postfix
> list or from your packager.

-- 
Best regards
Thomas Spuhler

All e-mail from this domain is scanned for viruses
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From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 28 17:20:09 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 08:20:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAArGWueTZUEkSYNsOwWJNPwsKAAAAQAAAAZTsi0a0cvkK6tfPC3meBsQEAAAAA@olney-scout-group.org.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510280820090156dfa7e085@msapiro>

Mark.A.Lombardo wrote:
>
>Please for novices around her don't use jargon.  I sent the original
>message, and the message stating reply to poster.


Perhaps the users are using 'reply all' or 'group reply' as I've done
here instead of simple reply.

If you don't want users to be able to post to the list at all, go to
the FAQ wizard
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
and search for one-way or announcement or newsletter which will find
Article 3.11 which will tell you how to set it up.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mlists at starmania.net  Fri Oct 28 17:30:57 2005
From: mlists at starmania.net (Mike Cisar)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:30:57 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Having mailman treat two domains as equal during
	migration...
Message-ID: <00ba01c5dbd4$9b04cd20$f4209344@corporate.starmania.net>

I have a corporate customer who is in the process of migrating all of their
users and services from one domain to another (lets say
reallyreallyreallylongandhardolddomain.com to newdomain.com).  Because they
are quite large, and not centralized they estimate that it will be about a
month before they are able to get out to all the remote sites to convert the
user mail settings to the new domain.  They use mailman for much internal
mailing between various groups of their users.

At this point the mail server is configured to respond to both domains, and
treat them as the same.  Mailman itself is configured to use the new domain
both on the web side, and all the lists have been changed to use that as
their preferred domain.  However the problem arises with the list
subscribers themselves.  We can't simply export the membership for the lists
and change everyone to the new domain because everyone won't be sending with
the new addresses at once.  In the worst case scenario we could export the
list make the changes and reimport with nomail set so that everyone has a
duplicate membership, and then remove the old domain accounts once the
conversion is complete.  I'd prefer to save this as a last resort at this
point as it is kind of messy.

What I would like to do is do a one-shot conversion of all the users to the
new domain name and then internally to mailman, when the message is first
submitted into the mailman process simply have a regex replacement of the
sender's domain name so even though the message might actually be coming
from joeblow at olddomain.com mailman would read that in, do a quick replace in
its mind and for the rest of the process treat the message as if it had come
from joeblow at newdomain.com 

I am assuming that this should pretty much be a 'one-liner' code
modification to mailman.   Pardon my Perl (I'm not a native Pythoner so that
doesn't help matters :-) but the equivalent of "sender =~
s/olddomain/newdomain/" immediately after mailman parses 'sender' from the
incoming message.  I don't really grok how the message flows through the
internals of Mailman... so the couple of places I've tried putting the
'one-liner' don't seem to have any effect.  I'm assuming that this should be
done literally as soon as possible after Mailman has received the message
from the MTA to ensure that the substitution is used in all possible
processes?

I'm hoping someone on the list may be able to tell me if this a) is really a
one-liner and b) roughly where to look at inserting the 'one-liner' in order
to acchieve the required result.  

Thanks for your help!

Cheers,
>>>>> Mike <<<<<



From mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk  Fri Oct 28 17:53:41 2005
From: mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk (Mark.A.Lombardo)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:53:41 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
In-Reply-To: <20051028122420.GF30626@schlund.de>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAArGWueTZUEkSYNsOwWJNPwsKAAAAQAAAASE37iYIwNEu0g0CRehm6TAEAAAAA@olney-scout-group.org.uk>

Hi Hannah,


I apologise for my comments earlier on. I am getting very little support
from my service provider on this issue. I am getting complaints from users
of the list. As far as I was aware I had set it up, so what ever reply they
hit it will direct the reply to the poster, and not to the list.

Kind Regards

Mark


-----Original Message-----
From:
mailman-users-bounces+mark.a.lombardo=olney-scout-group.org.uk at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+mark.a.lombardo=olney-scout-group.org.uk at pytho
n.org] On Behalf Of Hannah Schroeter
Sent: 28 October 2005 13:24
To: Mark.A.Lombardo
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Help

Hello!

On Fri, Oct 28, 2005 at 01:11:34PM +0100, Mark.A.Lombardo wrote:
>Hello,

>Please for novices around her don't use jargon.

You get what you pay for.

And I think one can expect for people to educate themselves.

>[...]

Kind regards,

Hannah - slightly annoyed by that attitude of entitlement.
------------------------------------------------------
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From jdennis at redhat.com  Fri Oct 28 18:16:16 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:16:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Having mailman treat two domains as
	equal	during migration...
In-Reply-To: <00ba01c5dbd4$9b04cd20$f4209344@corporate.starmania.net>
References: <00ba01c5dbd4$9b04cd20$f4209344@corporate.starmania.net>
Message-ID: <1130516176.9065.36.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Fri, 2005-10-28 at 09:30 -0600, Mike Cisar wrote:
> At this point the mail server is configured to respond to both domains, and
> treat them as the same.  Mailman itself is configured to use the new domain
> both on the web side, and all the lists have been changed to use that as
> their preferred domain.  However the problem arises with the list
> subscribers themselves.  We can't simply export the membership for the lists
> and change everyone to the new domain because everyone won't be sending with
> the new addresses at once.  In the worst case scenario we could export the
> list make the changes and reimport with nomail set so that everyone has a
> duplicate membership, and then remove the old domain accounts once the
> conversion is complete.  I'd prefer to save this as a last resort at this
> point as it is kind of messy.
> 
> What I would like to do is do a one-shot conversion of all the users to the
> new domain name and then internally to mailman, when the message is first
> submitted into the mailman process simply have a regex replacement of the
> sender's domain name so even though the message might actually be coming
> from joeblow at olddomain.com mailman would read that in, do a quick replace in
> its mind and for the rest of the process treat the message as if it had come
> from joeblow at newdomain.com 

Why involve mailman? Why not use either the alias feature or the address
rewriting feature of your MTA?

But don't you have a larger problem? If the user is still using his old
address and thus receiving mail at his old address and you change his
address to the new domain when mailman sends the mail to the list then
how is somebody going to respond to that user? It's going to go to the
new address right where he won't see it (or were you planning on
aliasing these as well?).
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 28 18:51:42 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 09:51:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Having mailman treat two domains as equal
	duringmigration...
In-Reply-To: <00ba01c5dbd4$9b04cd20$f4209344@corporate.starmania.net>
Message-ID: <PC174020051028095142075070858bf8@msapiro>

Mike Cisar wrote:
>
>What I would like to do is do a one-shot conversion of all the users to the
>new domain name and then internally to mailman, when the message is first
>submitted into the mailman process simply have a regex replacement of the
>sender's domain name so even though the message might actually be coming
>from joeblow at olddomain.com mailman would read that in, do a quick replace in
>its mind and for the rest of the process treat the message as if it had come
>from joeblow at newdomain.com 
>
>I am assuming that this should pretty much be a 'one-liner' code
>modification to mailman.   Pardon my Perl (I'm not a native Pythoner so that
>doesn't help matters :-) but the equivalent of "sender =~
>s/olddomain/newdomain/" immediately after mailman parses 'sender' from the
>incoming message.  I don't really grok how the message flows through the
>internals of Mailman... so the couple of places I've tried putting the
>'one-liner' don't seem to have any effect.  I'm assuming that this should be
>done literally as soon as possible after Mailman has received the message
>from the MTA to ensure that the substitution is used in all possible
>processes?
>
>I'm hoping someone on the list may be able to tell me if this a) is really a
>one-liner and b) roughly where to look at inserting the 'one-liner' in order
>to acchieve the required result.  

Well, maybe a two liner :)

Aside --------------------------
Actually, John Dennis' reply suggesting rewriting the address in the
MTA is a good one. The way I read your original, his concern about
replies is not relevant as I think you said the users already receive
mail addressed to either domain.

In spite of my agreement that John's suggestion is probably best, there
is one small caveat. If you have USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = Yes in
mm_cfg.py, you'll have to rewrite the envelope sender too, and I don't
know if you can do that.

In any case, I'd already written most of the following before I saw
John's reply, so rather than let it go to waste ...   :)
End aside -----------------------

It depends on what the desired result is. I'm not clear on whether you
want to actually change the domain in the From: and maybe elsewhere in
the message so when the message from user at old.domain goes out, it is
From: user at new.domain, or if you just want user at old.domain to be
considered equivalent to user at new.domain for the purpose of validating
list membership for posting.

The easy one is the latter, so for that I would look at
Mailman/Message.py in the get_sender() and get_senders() methods. In
get_sender(), I would do the replacement in 'address' just before

        if not preserve_case:
            return address.lower()
        return address

In get_senders(), I would again do it to 'address' in this loop where
the dots are

        for pair in pairs:
            address = pair[1]
            ...
            if address is not None and not preserve_case:
                address = address.lower()
            authors.append(address)

This will also cause other messages (e.g. auotoresponses and "your
message awaits approval") to go to the new domain, but I gather that
is not a problem.

If you want to do the former (rewrite the headers), I suggest one of
two things. Do it in the first handler in the pipeline which is
Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py, or make a new handler (e.g.
Mailman/Handlers/MungDomain.py) to do it and insert the new handler at
the beginning of the pipeline with something like

GLOBAL_PIPELINE.insert(0, 'MungDomain')

in mm_cfg.py. This won't work for any list which has a 'pipeline'
attribute, but that is rare.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 28 19:04:15 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 10:04:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAArGWueTZUEkSYNsOwWJNPwsKAAAAQAAAASE37iYIwNEu0g0CRehm6TAEAAAAA@olney-scout-group.org.uk>
Message-ID: <PC174020051028100415062570858b60@msapiro>

Mark.A.Lombardo wrote:

>As far as I was aware I had set it up, so what ever reply they
>hit it will direct the reply to the poster, and not to the list.

The only way to do this is to enable Full Personalization for the list
which you may not be able to do (It requires that the Mailman
installation have OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION set to Yes), or to
post with the list address as a Bcc:. Otherwise, the list posting
address will be in the To: or Cc: of the received post and 'reply all'
will include it.

To post with the list in Bcc: you need to turn off
require_explicit_destination on Privacy options...->Recipient filters
or post with an Approved: header, or the post will be held for
approval.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk  Fri Oct 28 19:22:33 2005
From: mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk (Mark.A.Lombardo)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 18:22:33 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051028100415062570858b60@msapiro>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAArGWueTZUEkSYNsOwWJNPwsKAAAAQAAAA66phd2AVwkiQ9lXR1CY4wQEAAAAA@olney-scout-group.org.uk>

Hi Mark,

 

I am totally confused, can you explain this please?


Where are replies to list messages directed? Poster is strongly recommended
for most mailing lists.


Poster

This list

Explicit address


 

 

 

Please can you explain this bit, for me, if this is set to poster, why does
everyone get the reply.

 

Mark

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: 28 October 2005 18:04
To: Mark.A.Lombardo; 'Hannah Schroeter'
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Help

 

Mark.A.Lombardo wrote:

 

>As far as I was aware I had set it up, so what ever reply they

>hit it will direct the reply to the poster, and not to the list.

 

The only way to do this is to enable Full Personalization for the list

which you may not be able to do (It requires that the Mailman

installation have OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION set to Yes), or to

post with the list address as a Bcc:. Otherwise, the list posting

address will be in the To: or Cc: of the received post and 'reply all'

will include it.

 

To post with the list in Bcc: you need to turn off

require_explicit_destination on Privacy options...->Recipient filters

or post with an Approved: header, or the post will be held for

approval.

 

-- 

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,

San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

 

 

 



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 28 20:07:02 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:07:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAArGWueTZUEkSYNsOwWJNPwsKAAAAQAAAA66phd2AVwkiQ9lXR1CY4wQEAAAAA@olney-scout-group.org.uk>
Message-ID: <PC174020051028110702046877f3c616@msapiro>

Mark.A.Lombardo wrote:
>
>I am totally confused, can you explain this please?
>
>
>Where are replies to list messages directed? Poster is strongly recommended
>for most mailing lists.
>
>
>Poster
>
>This list
>
>Explicit address
>
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
>Please can you explain this bit, for me, if this is set to poster, why does
>everyone get the reply.


When a user tells his/her MUA (mail reader, email client) to 'reply' to
the current message, the MUA is supposed to direct the reply to the
address(es) in the Reply-To: header if any or to the address in From:
if there is no Reply-To:.

If the above is set to 'poster', Mailman makes no change to the From:
or Reply-To: header of the message.

If the above is set to 'this list' Mailman adds the list posting
address to the addresses in the existing Reply-To: header if any and
if first_strip_reply_to is No. Otherwise it just makes a Reply-To:
with the list posting address.

If the above is set to 'explicit address', it works like 'this list'
except the address used is the address in reply_to_address instead of
the list posting address.

So, if the user tells the MUA to 'reply', it will generally work as you
expect for any of the three cases.

However, if the user tells the MUA to 'reply all', the MUA normally
directs the reply as in the 'reply' case, but also adds every address
in the To: and Cc: headers of the current message to the recipients of
the 'reply all'

Thus, if a user does 'reply all' to a post and the list posting address
is in the To: or Cc: of the post, the reply will be sent to the list
posting address as well as the poster and other addressees of the
original message.

If you don't want this, and you DO want to allow list members in
general to post, then you have to arrange for the list posting address
to NOT appear in the To: or Cc: headers of the posts which you CAN NOT
do. I said in a prior post that Full Personalization, if you can
enable it, can do this by replacing the To: address with the
recipient's address, BUT this won't do for you because it also puts
the list posting address in Cc: in order to falicate the ability to
reply to the list if the user wants to.

If you really do not want users to have the ability to reply to the
list at all, as opposed to just when they do a simple 'reply' you have
to set up the list as a one-way/announcement/newsletter list as
described in the FAQ.

You basically have two choices:

1) set reply_goes_to_list to Poster and teach your list members to use
'reply' to reply to the poster and 'reply all' to reply to the poster
and the list.

2) prevent your list members from posting at all by setting up the list
as described in the FAQ.

At the risk of flogging a dead horse, you can't PREVENT your users from
addressing replies to the list, you can only try to teach them not to
or set up the list to not accept any posts from general list members.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jmadderra at touro.edu  Fri Oct 28 20:08:06 2005
From: jmadderra at touro.edu (Jack R. Madderra)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:08:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Google and other search engines
Message-ID: <01df01c5dbea$8c4b4320$a50010ac@TU05018>

Other than setting the archives to private are the any other recommended
methods of preventing these Bots from accessing the list archives?

 

Jack



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 28 20:15:09 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:15:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051028110702046877f3c616@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC174020051028111509015629dc3225@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>If you don't want this, and you DO want to allow list members in
>general to post, then you have to arrange for the list posting address
>to NOT appear in the To: or Cc: headers of the posts which you CAN NOT
>do.

Not quite correct. You can post by addressing the list in Bcc:, but if
you're allowing general list members to post, they won't do it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 28 20:38:09 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:38:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Google and other search engines
In-Reply-To: <01df01c5dbea$8c4b4320$a50010ac@TU05018>
Message-ID: <PC17402005102811380904539956d12e@msapiro>

Jack R. Madderra wrote:

>Other than setting the archives to private are the any other recommended
>methods of preventing these Bots from accessing the list archives?

1)You can use a robots.txt file. Google 'robots.txt' for info.

2)You can configure your web server to add a

Robots: noindex,nofollow

header when it delivers the pages.

3)You can edit the various arch*.html and article.html templates to add
a

<META NAME="ROBOTS" CONTENT="NOINDEX,NOFOLLOW">

tag. See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp
for editing instructions.

2) is better than 3), if you do 2) you don't need 3). 1) never hurts.

Reputable search engine robots will honor these. Spambots probably
won't.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mlists at starmania.net  Fri Oct 28 20:54:06 2005
From: mlists at starmania.net (Mike Cisar)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:54:06 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Having mailman treat two domains as equal
	duringmigration...
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051028095142075070858bf8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <002201c5dbf0$fc7f91e0$f4209344@corporate.starmania.net>

Hi Mark,

> >I'm hoping someone on the list may be able to tell me if this a) is 
> >really a one-liner and b) roughly where to look at inserting the 
> >'one-liner' in order to acchieve the required result.
> 
> Well, maybe a two liner :)
> 
> Aside --------------------------
> Actually, John Dennis' reply suggesting rewriting the address 
> in the MTA is a good one. The way I read your original, his 
> concern about replies is not relevant as I think you said the 
> users already receive mail addressed to either domain.

Yes it's a sendmail configuration and it has actually been reconfigured
completely as the new domain with an alias for the old domain, so if users
are receiving mail to either address it ends up in the same mailbox.
Rewriting in the MTA is definitely something I had not thought of, but your
two-liner looks much easier ;-)  Rule #1 in configuring sendmail... if it's
working don't touch it :-)

> From: user at new.domain, or if you just want user at old.domain to 
> be considered equivalent to user at new.domain for the purpose 
> of validating list membership for posting.

That's it, that's the one :-)  Basically all of the user memberships will be
converted for the new domain, and we just don't want posts to get held for
the people who are 'less than prompt' in reconfiguring their email clients
during the transition.  

> The easy one is the latter, so for that I would look at 
> Mailman/Message.py in the get_sender() and get_senders() 
> methods. In get_sender(), I would do the replacement in 
> 'address' just before
>
>  <snip>
> 
> This will also cause other messages (e.g. auotoresponses and 
> "your message awaits approval") to go to the new domain, but 
> I gather that is not a problem.

Will give this a try and see how it goes :-)

Cheers,
>>>>> Mike <<<<<



From mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk  Fri Oct 28 21:00:24 2005
From: mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk (Mark.A.Lombardo)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 20:00:24 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051028110702046877f3c616@msapiro>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAArGWueTZUEkSYNsOwWJNPwsKAAAAQAAAA4sxMmyr23kOUjVgaH5st2wEAAAAA@olney-scout-group.org.uk>

I must be coming across as really thick and stupid. If I have set the tag to
reply to poster, and I hit reply, then there is no way of mailman knowing
which email address that came from

So in simple terms, if I put up a subject on the mailing list and I don't
want people to reply, it is better to put the email address in the bcc
field.

How do I set that the reply only comes to the person that posted the mail,
and not the list, I thought setting the reply to poster it would only send
the mal to the person who posted, and not the rest of the list. Is this not
correct?

If this is not correct, then I am confused, because that is the way it
reads.

If I set reply is sent to an explicit email address (ie mine), then if
someone replies to an email I have sent to the list, it will send the reply
to me.

So what happens if someone wants to reply to the whole list, and not just
me, and I have the explicit email address set.

It must seems as though I am totally thick.

Mark

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: 28 October 2005 19:07
To: Mark.A.Lombardo
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Help

Mark.A.Lombardo wrote:
>
>I am totally confused, can you explain this please?
>
>
>Where are replies to list messages directed? Poster is strongly recommended
>for most mailing lists.
>
>
>Poster
>
>This list
>
>Explicit address
>
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
>Please can you explain this bit, for me, if this is set to poster, why does
>everyone get the reply.


When a user tells his/her MUA (mail reader, email client) to 'reply' to
the current message, the MUA is supposed to direct the reply to the
address(es) in the Reply-To: header if any or to the address in From:
if there is no Reply-To:.

If the above is set to 'poster', Mailman makes no change to the From:
or Reply-To: header of the message.

If the above is set to 'this list' Mailman adds the list posting
address to the addresses in the existing Reply-To: header if any and
if first_strip_reply_to is No. Otherwise it just makes a Reply-To:
with the list posting address.

If the above is set to 'explicit address', it works like 'this list'
except the address used is the address in reply_to_address instead of
the list posting address.

So, if the user tells the MUA to 'reply', it will generally work as you
expect for any of the three cases.

However, if the user tells the MUA to 'reply all', the MUA normally
directs the reply as in the 'reply' case, but also adds every address
in the To: and Cc: headers of the current message to the recipients of
the 'reply all'

Thus, if a user does 'reply all' to a post and the list posting address
is in the To: or Cc: of the post, the reply will be sent to the list
posting address as well as the poster and other addressees of the
original message.

If you don't want this, and you DO want to allow list members in
general to post, then you have to arrange for the list posting address
to NOT appear in the To: or Cc: headers of the posts which you CAN NOT
do. I said in a prior post that Full Personalization, if you can
enable it, can do this by replacing the To: address with the
recipient's address, BUT this won't do for you because it also puts
the list posting address in Cc: in order to falicate the ability to
reply to the list if the user wants to.

If you really do not want users to have the ability to reply to the
list at all, as opposed to just when they do a simple 'reply' you have
to set up the list as a one-way/announcement/newsletter list as
described in the FAQ.

You basically have two choices:

1) set reply_goes_to_list to Poster and teach your list members to use
'reply' to reply to the poster and 'reply all' to reply to the poster
and the list.

2) prevent your list members from posting at all by setting up the list
as described in the FAQ.

At the risk of flogging a dead horse, you can't PREVENT your users from
addressing replies to the list, you can only try to teach them not to
or set up the list to not accept any posts from general list members.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan







From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 28 21:04:50 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:04:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Google and other search engines
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005102811380904539956d12e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC17402005102812045002349956d07c@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>2)You can configure your web server to add a
>
>Robots: noindex,nofollow
>
>header when it delivers the pages.
>
>3)You can edit the various arch*.html and article.html templates to add
>a
>
><META NAME="ROBOTS" CONTENT="NOINDEX,NOFOLLOW">
>
>tag. See
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp
>for editing instructions.
>
>2) is better than 3), if you do 2) you don't need 3). 1) never hurts.

Actually, I googled a bit and now it is not clear to me that 2) is
better than 3) or even if 2) works at all. Maybe someone else knows.

In any case, except for the additional effort to set it up, it won't
hurt to do both.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lsa at business.aau.dk  Fri Oct 28 20:58:24 2005
From: lsa at business.aau.dk (Lars Anderson)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 20:58:24 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A non-text attachment was scrubbed... -- URL
	break
In-Reply-To: <PC174020050902163901070385b3b720@msapiro>
References: <61643EB090923342B22CA86AA408E42F02EDF1AA@exchange.finance.state.mn.us>
	<PC174020050902163901070385b3b720@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20051028185824.GA17640@business.aau.dk>

On Fri, Sep 02, 2005 at 16:39:01, Mark Sapiro wrote:

Hi,

I'm seeing the same thing. It works OK as long as the body of the 
message is us-ascii, but if it contains characters like ??? 
(iso-8859-1) the message  is printed in the archive as quoted printables 
(litteraly) and the link is mangled like reported by the OP.

The message is sent fine to the list, _unless_ msg_footer is empty. If 
it is empty the message mailed to list also contains quoted printables. 

(If scrub_nondigest is set to no, archiving works perfectly fine with 
iso-8559-1 characters)

Anyone else seen this?

Lars

> Tim Willson wrote:
> 
> >If I set Non-digest options/"Scrub attachments of regular delivery message?"
> >to Yes my archived messages URL's have an extra = in the URL string at the
> >end of line one and a line break making the URL 2 lines and non-clickable.
> <snip>
> >
> > -------------- next part -------------- 
> >A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 
> >Name: Official notice Spam Filtering Implementation Update 09030.pdf Type:
> >application/octet-stream Size: 76382 bytes 
> >Desc: not available 
> >Url : <http://www.mn.us/pipermail/listname/attachments/20050901/2d8=>
> >eb35e/OfficialnoticeSpamFilteringUpdate09030.pdf 
> 
> This was at some point a quoted-printable encoding. I don't know where
> the '>' at the end of the first line came from, but in
> quoted-printable speak the '=' at the end of the first line of
> 
> Url : <http://www.mn.us/pipermail/listname/attachments/20050901/2d8=
> eb35e/OfficialnoticeSpamFilteringUpdate09030.pdf 
> 
> means "there is really no line-break here - join this line to the next".
> 
> I've looked at Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py, and it doesn't put angle
> brackets ('<', '>') around the urls. I don't know where they are
> coming from, but I don't think Mailman is doing it.
> 
> Likewise, Scrubber.py does not produce a quoted-printable encoded
> message. It produces a message with Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit.
> 
> So it looks like somewhere in the outgoing MTA path, an MTA is
> converting 8bit to quoted-printable which is changing
> 
> Url :
> http://www.mn.us/pipermail/listname/attachments/20050901/2d8eb35e/OfficialnoticeSpamFilteringUpdate09030.pdf
> 
> to
> 
> Url : http://www.mn.us/pipermail/listname/attachments/20050901/2d8=
> eb35e/OfficialnoticeSpamFilteringUpdate09030.pdf
> 
> and then somewhere further along, something is not correctly
> interpreting the quoted-printable encoding - perhaps the thing which
> is putting the angle brackets around the
> http://www.mn.us/pipermail/listname/attachments/20050901/2d8= part.
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lsa%40business.auc.dk
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

-- 
Lars Anderson                      E-mail: lsa at business.aau.dk
Faculty of Social Sciences         Jabber: lsa at jabber.samf.aau.dk 
Aalborg University                 Voice: +45 96358225, Fax: +45 98153505
Denmark                            Office: Fib4-117


From ren at trubble.com  Fri Oct 28 21:19:44 2005
From: ren at trubble.com (Ren Bucholz)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:19:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members and email confirmation
In-Reply-To: <1129920075.14598.118.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <e745f29381aa41396576826d6a6af8ba@trubble.com>
	<1129920075.14598.118.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <458da5fa3a5b8ce64df928a569c65d8b@trubble.com>

Thanks very much to John for his advice on this.  I've implemented it, 
and am now facing a slightly different problem.

For those just tuning in, I'm using MM 2.1.5 and trying to add new list 
subscribers via the command line (so users don't see the default MM 
templates and I have control over the UI).  I started off by using PHP 
to call add_members, which successfully subscribes a user.  It goes 
like this:

> [me at HOST]$ echo your at email.com | add_members -r - LISTNAME

I have to use echo because add_members only reads from files or 
standard input, but otherwise it works wonderfully.  The trouble is 
that no confirmation is sent to the subscriber.  John Dennis pointed 
out that add_members could be copied and hacked so that instead of 
calling ApprovedAddMember (which doesn't send a confirmation), I could 
call AddMember (which should generate a confirmation).  So I created a 
modified add_members and swapped this line:

> mlist.ApprovedAddMember(userdesc, ack, 0)

with this one:

> mlist.AddMember(userdesc, remote="Webpage")

Running the new script on the command line generates this:

> [me at HOST]$ echo your at email.com | MODIFIED_add_members -r - LISTNAME
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/MODIFIED_add_members", line 255, in ?
>     main()
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/MODIFIED_add_members", line 235, in main
>     addall(mlist, nmembers, 0, send_welcome_msg, s)
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/MODIFIED_add_members", line 135, in addall
>     mlist.AddMember(userdesc, remote="Webpage")
>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 888, in AddMember
>     raise Errors.MMSubscribeNeedsConfirmation
> MMSubscribeNeedsConfirmation

Strangest of all, a confirmation message *is* generated and sent to the 
email address, but clicking on the confirmation link just sends me to a 
MM error page.  I'm at a loss as to what the problem might be.

Thanks to anyone who made it this far.  And quadruple thanks to anyone 
who can help.  I appreciate it!

-Ren



On Oct 21, 2005, at 2:41 PM, John Dennis wrote:

> On Fri, 2005-10-21 at 14:23 -0400, Ren Bucholz wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I have a signup sheet that subscribes people to a Mailman list by 
>> using PHP to call add_members (the PHP is below, FYI).  My problem is 
>> that add_members seems to ignore the email confirmation settings from 
>> the admin interface.  Even though my list is configured to send a 
>> confirmation message, subscribers only get the "Thanks for signing 
>> up!" email.
>>
>> Does anyone know of a way to use add_members in a confirmed-opt-in 
>> list?  Thanks very much!
>
> Not is its current manifestation. The reason is that manual adding of 
> members assumes this is an approved action. You have two choices:
>
> 1) redirect them to the signup page for the list (this has the 
> advantage of allowing the user to set some preferences and see some 
> basic info).
>
> 2) Copy the add_members script to a new name and edit it so that it 
> calls AddMember instead of AddApprovedMember. See Mailman/Cgi 
> subscribe.py for an example of how to do this and the various 
> exceptions you'll have to catch and handle.
> -- 
> John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>
>



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 28 21:37:13 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:37:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAArGWueTZUEkSYNsOwWJNPwsKAAAAQAAAA4sxMmyr23kOUjVgaH5st2wEAAAAA@olney-scout-group.org.uk>
Message-ID: <PC174020051028123713045370858ab2@msapiro>

Mark.A.Lombardo wrote:

>I must be coming across as really thick and stupid. If I have set the tag to
>reply to poster, and I hit reply, then there is no way of mailman knowing
>which email address that came from


I'm not sure what you mean by this, but Mailman is not really involved
here other than perhaps setting a Reply-To: address. It's you and your
MUA (Outlook in your case) that decides where the reply/reply-all goes.

Consider this post of yours to the Mailman-Users list. The
Mailman-Users list is set up with 'reply to poster'. I think you
generated your post by some kind of 'reply-all' to my post. I think
this because your post has an In-Reply-To: header with the message id
of my post. It is addressed to me with a Cc: to the list, so unless
you just 'replied' to me and manually added the Cc: to the list, the
Cc: was added by the 'reply all'. Further evidence of your use of
'reply-all' is the fact that Hannah was addressed explicitly in your
initial reply to a message from me, presumably because she was
explicitly addressed in my message and you did 'reply-all'.

So anyway, I think you did 'reply-all' to my post, and the reply came
to me with Cc: to the list because my previous post had Cc: to the
list.


>So in simple terms, if I put up a subject on the mailing list and I don't
>want people to reply, it is better to put the email address in the bcc
>field.


Do you want people to be able to reply to the list in general, and just
not to this post, or do you want them to never reply to the list? The
answer really depends on that and you've never said.


>How do I set that the reply only comes to the person that posted the mail,
>and not the list, I thought setting the reply to poster it would only send
>the mal to the person who posted, and not the rest of the list. Is this not
>correct?


This depends on how the person replying does the actual replying. If
the actual reply somehow reaches the list posting address, Mailman
doesn't care how it got there or whether it was a reply to some prior
post; it treats the post as any other from that sender.


>If this is not correct, then I am confused, because that is the way it
>reads.


The configuration option only governs where a simple reply to sender
only will go - nothing else - and it does this through the content of
headers in the message only, not through any enforcement on a received
reply.


>If I set reply is sent to an explicit email address (ie mine), then if
>someone replies to an email I have sent to the list, it will send the reply
>to me.


It will actually be exactly the same as the reply to poster case if you
are the original poster. It's only different if someone else sent the
original post.


>So what happens if someone wants to reply to the whole list, and not just
>me, and I have the explicit email address set.


They do reply all, and the reply is addressed to the list and to the
explicit reply-to address and to any other addresses that were in the
To: an Cc: of the received post (except perhaps their own).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jdennis at redhat.com  Fri Oct 28 22:06:40 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:06:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Having mailman treat two domains as
	equal	duringmigration...
In-Reply-To: <002201c5dbf0$fc7f91e0$f4209344@corporate.starmania.net>
References: <002201c5dbf0$fc7f91e0$f4209344@corporate.starmania.net>
Message-ID: <1130530000.9065.63.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

It's Friday afternoon so forgive me a little tongue-n-cheek humor :-)

On Fri, 2005-10-28 at 12:54 -0600, Mike Cisar wrote:
> Rule #1 in configuring sendmail... if it's working don't touch it :-)

Corollary #1 follows from Rule #1:

sendmail configuration is so painful it can't be changed readily.

Thus Rule #2 follows from Corollary #1:

Don't use sendmail :-)
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 28 22:13:43 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:13:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_members and email confirmation
In-Reply-To: <458da5fa3a5b8ce64df928a569c65d8b@trubble.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020051028131343087529dc3516@msapiro>

Ren Bucholz wrote:
>
>So I created a 
>modified add_members and swapped this line:
>
>> mlist.ApprovedAddMember(userdesc, ack, 0)
>
>with this one:
>
>> mlist.AddMember(userdesc, remote="Webpage")
>
>Running the new script on the command line generates this:
>
>> [me at HOST]$ echo your at email.com | MODIFIED_add_members -r - LISTNAME
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/MODIFIED_add_members", line 255, in ?
>>     main()
>>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/MODIFIED_add_members", line 235, in main
>>     addall(mlist, nmembers, 0, send_welcome_msg, s)
>>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/MODIFIED_add_members", line 135, in addall
>>     mlist.AddMember(userdesc, remote="Webpage")
>>   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 888, in AddMember
>>     raise Errors.MMSubscribeNeedsConfirmation
>> MMSubscribeNeedsConfirmation
>
>Strangest of all, a confirmation message *is* generated and sent to the 
>email address, but clicking on the confirmation link just sends me to a 
>MM error page.  I'm at a loss as to what the problem might be.


The problem is that AddMember generates the pending subscription, the
cookie and the confirmation email and then raises
Errors.MMSubscribeNeedsConfirmation so the caller (generally,
Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py) can catch the exception and generate the
appropriate response text. The add_members script doesn't catch this
exception, so you get the above error. You can just add

        except Errors.MMSubscribeNeedsConfirmation:
            print >> tee, _('Sent Confirmation: %(member)s')

or maybe, if you don't actually see this output, just

        except Errors.MMSubscribeNeedsConfirmation:
            pass

to the excepts following the try: of the AddMember call. You probably
want to also handle the Errors.MMNeedApproval exception in case you do
this on a list where subscription requires approval.

As to why the confirmation link returned an error, I don't know why
this happened. What does Mailman's error log say?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 28 22:35:45 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 13:35:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051028123713045370858ab2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510281335450000311366cd@msapiro>

One other thing that hasn't been mentioned, but all the answers in this
thread apply to replies to non-digest messages. Digests always have
Reply-To: the list posting address.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jrimer at tagline.cc  Fri Oct 28 23:15:50 2005
From: jrimer at tagline.cc (Jared Rimer)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:15:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help!
In-Reply-To: <00a901c5da56$6dad1730$4fa28840@yourxb2x7j77gn>
References: <00a901c5da56$6dad1730$4fa28840@yourxb2x7j77gn>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20051028141518.020a8e00@tagline.cc>

Change the length in KB a message is before posting in general to 0 
for no limit.  If I remember the setting.

At 10:55 10/26/2005, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>We use this software and continue to get the following error message 
>(see below).  Is there anything that can be adjusted in order to 
>send larger messages?  Also, we can not send messages with attached 
>files.  What can we do to rectify this situation?
>
>Sincerely,
>Marlowe Futrell
>___
>
>Your mail to 'NAPHAstaff' with the subject
>
>     FW: [Naphastaff] RE: San Filippo event
>
>Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.
>
>The reason it is being held:
>
>     Message body is too big: 50802 bytes with a limit of 40 KB
>
>Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
>notification of the moderator's decision.  If you would like to cancel
>this posting, please visit the following URL:
>
>
>http://napha.org/mailman/confirm/naphastaff_napha.org/72586148b76afd1cdd2af6
>ba8e6e4ea8e77e377e
>
>
>  Outgoing mail is Virus Scanned byNorman Data 
> Defense.        Inbound Spam reduced 98.2% byVircom Sieve.
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe: 
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jrimer%40tagline.cc
>
>Security Policy: 
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

Jared Rimer
Business website: http://www.superior-software.com/support
Personal Website: http://www.asmodean.net/jrimer
Music Education Network for the Visually Impaired  http://menvi.org a 
service done through Superior Software level one
WBBY Internet Radio and All In Play team up.  Learn more 
http://www.menvi.org/allinplay
WBBY Internet Radio: www.wbby.us 



From antoine at starinux.org  Fri Oct 28 23:43:26 2005
From: antoine at starinux.org (antoine at starinux.org)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 23:43:26 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] name of my mailing-list adress ...
Message-ID: <200510282343.27006.antoine@starinux.org>

Hallo,

I installed "Mailman" on my computer.
(+ Apache and Postfix)
My domain is : "rezoperso.net"
My hostname is : "aw.rezoperso.net"

Everything works fine when I create my mailing-list named : "starinux".

But how to create the name of The Email adress of the ML "starinux" ?

When I register a new member, all works fine and the Email adress of the ML is :
"starinux at antoine@aw.rezoperso.net"

So I send an Email (test) from the new member TO "starinux at antoine@aw.rezoperso.net"
and I receive a error message : "undelivered message" :
"starinux at antoine@aw.rezoperso.net" error
<postmaster at antoine.rezoperso.net> (expanded from <""@aw.rezoperso.net>):
[antoine.rezoperso.net]: Name or service not known

So my two questions :
1) How to create a valid Mailing List Email Adress,
2) Does it comme from "postfix" =>  "/etc/postfix/main.cf"  file bad configured
     or from "mailman"

Many thanks for a help
and see you.

Antoine
(i'm not far to succeed ..)


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 28 23:45:38 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:45:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attach Pics
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051025183239037592e4b95e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510281445380453740dcc2b@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>David wrote:
> >
> >One more thing.  If people are on moderation is there some place to set
> >it that they dont get notification of being moderated and their message
> >is just held without them knowing it.
>
>
>No. If member_moderation_action is hold or reject, the member is
>notified. Only if member_moderation_action is discard is there no
>notice.

It turns out, I was wrong here. Also, the documentation appears wrong
in a different way.

The setting is on the list's General Options page and is
respond_to_post_requests. The help for this option says "Approval
notices are sent when mail triggers certain of the limits _except_
routine list moderation and spam filters, for which notices are not
sent. This option overrides ever sending the notice."

The phrase "_except_ routine list moderation and spam filters, for
which notices are not sent" is not correct in that the only notices
that aren't sent are when a message is 'discarded' including for a
match on mm_cfg.KNOWN_SPAMMERS or when a message is held because
emergency is Yes.

Submitters of all held posts regardless of reason except emergency
moderation are notified or not depending on the setting of
respond_to_post_requests. This includes posts held for routine
moderation and posts that match header_filter_rules with a hold action
and posts that match bounce_matching_headers.

Thus, you can turn off notices to moderated users by setting
respond_to_post_requests to No, but you also turn off all other held
post notices as well.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Oct 28 23:56:06 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:56:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] name of my mailing-list adress ...
In-Reply-To: <200510282343.27006.antoine@starinux.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510281456060718740dcd14@msapiro>

antoine at starinux.org wrote:
>
>I installed "Mailman" on my computer.
>(+ Apache and Postfix)
>My domain is : "rezoperso.net"
>My hostname is : "aw.rezoperso.net"
>
>Everything works fine when I create my mailing-list named : "starinux".
>
>But how to create the name of The Email adress of the ML "starinux" ?
>
>When I register a new member, all works fine and the Email adress of the ML is :
>"starinux at antoine@aw.rezoperso.net"


If you look at the General Options page for the list, I think you'll
find host_name is 'antoine at aw.rezoperso.net'. It should not be this.
It should probably be just 'aw.rezoperso.net'.

If you set this to 'antoine at aw.rezoperso.net', that is not correct. If
it was set that way in the list creation process, your settings for
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and maybe DEFAULT_URL_HOST are wrong.


>So my two questions :
>1) How to create a valid Mailing List Email Adress,

See above.

>2) Does it comme from "postfix" =>  "/etc/postfix/main.cf"  file bad configured
>     or from "mailman"

Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ashley at pcraft.com  Sat Oct 29 00:03:34 2005
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:03:34 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce messages
Message-ID: <4362A036.2090504@pcraft.com>


    We'd like to set one of our lists up so that permanent/fatal errors 
(such as invalid mailbox, unknown user, unknown host) would immediately 
get unsubscribed, while temp fails (such as mailbox full, try again 
later, etc.) will simply go through the normal motions.

    With that, we have a few questions:

    a) Does mailman discern between a temp fail and a permanent fail on 
a subscriber's address?  Obviously this would be the way to figure out 
who gets unsubscribed right away and who doesn't.

    b) How do we configure mailman to do this immediate unsub of the 
permanent/fatal errors?

    b) in logs/bounce, I see various different bounce scores.  Can 
anyone tell me what those numbers actually mean?

    Jul 16 23:14:54 2005 (1835) user at domain.net: list current bounce 
score: 3.0
    Jul 17 05:10:59 2005 (1835) user at domain.com: list current bounce 
score: 4.0
    Jul 22 10:21:11 2005 (1835) user at domain.org: list current bounce 
score: 5.0
    Jul 27 12:00:49 2005 (1868) user at domain.gov: list current bounce 
score: 2.0
    Aug 17 06:17:18 2005 (1868) user at domain.edu list current bounce 
score: 1.0
  

-- 
W | It's not a bug - it's an undocumented feature.
  +--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  IT Director / SysAdmin / Websmith             .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.            .     3550 Arapahoe Ave. #6
  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A.



From antoine at starinux.org  Sat Oct 29 00:05:25 2005
From: antoine at starinux.org (antoine at starinux.org)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 00:05:25 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] name of my mailing-list adress ...
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510281456060718740dcd14@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200510281456060718740dcd14@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200510290005.25860.antoine@starinux.org>

> >My domain is : "rezoperso.net"
> >My hostname is : "aw.rezoperso.net"
> >But how to create the name of The Email adress of the ML "starinux" ?
> If you look at the General Options page for the list, I think you'll
> find host_name is 'antoine at aw.rezoperso.net'. It should not be this.
> It should probably be just 'aw.rezoperso.net'.
>  If you set this to 'antoine at aw.rezoperso.net', that is not correct. If
> it was set that way in the list creation process, your settings for
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and maybe DEFAULT_URL_HOST are wrong.
*  *  *

Thanks Marks,

I tried with "aw.rezoperso.net".
so my Email Mailing-List becomes : "starinux at aw.rezoperso.net"
and when I send a Email with the above email,
I receive this message : 
"user  'starinux at aw.rezoperso.net"  not known

If I create this user (# adduser starinux) only the account "starinux at aw.rezoperso.net"
receives the mail.

See you ...

antoine


From jrimer at tagline.cc  Sat Oct 29 00:26:15 2005
From: jrimer at tagline.cc (Jared Rimer)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 15:26:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help
In-Reply-To: <4361A189.1070504@sbcglobal.net>
References: <4361A189.1070504@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20051028152544.02202298@tagline.cc>

send an E-mail to the request address of the list with who password 
where password is the password you set to the list.
At 20:56 10/27/2005, you wrote:
>i am having serious problems with mailman.
>we have nearly 700 members on our mailing list, and only some people are
>getting mail.
>i have reviewed the help sections, but need to know, step-by-step,
>how to export the email addresses from the list.
>can you please help me?
>jeremy
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe: 
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jrimer%40tagline.cc
>
>Security Policy: 
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

Jared Rimer
Business website: http://www.superior-software.com/support
Personal Website: http://www.asmodean.net/jrimer
Music Education Network for the Visually Impaired  http://menvi.org a 
service done through Superior Software level one
WBBY Internet Radio and All In Play team up.  Learn more 
http://www.menvi.org/allinplay
WBBY Internet Radio: www.wbby.us 



From jrimer at tagline.cc  Sat Oct 29 01:07:58 2005
From: jrimer at tagline.cc (Jared Rimer)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:07:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bouncing admins
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20051028160625.023108d8@sbcglobal.net>

Hi all,
         I'm running on a domain of mine that has Mailman 
installed.  The hosting provider moved the account to another server 
he runs.  Ever since, the notify when subscribers added has not 
worked correctly.  We've received bounce notifications disabling the 
one admin because of too many bounces, but the subscription is not 
disabled.  How does mailman handle this?

Jared Rimer
Business website: http://www.superior-software.com/support
Personal Website: http://www.asmodean.net/jrimer
Music Education Network for the Visually Impaired  http://menvi.org a 
service done through Superior Software level one
WBBY Internet Radio and All In Play team up.  Learn more 
http://www.menvi.org/allinplay
WBBY Internet Radio: www.wbby.us 



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 29 01:19:35 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:19:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] name of my mailing-list adress ...
In-Reply-To: <200510290005.25860.antoine@starinux.org>
Message-ID: <PC174020051028161935076504ee2f40@msapiro>

antoine at starinux.org wrote:
>
>I tried with "aw.rezoperso.net".
>so my Email Mailing-List becomes : "starinux at aw.rezoperso.net"
>and when I send a Email with the above email,
>I receive this message : 
>"user  'starinux at aw.rezoperso.net"  not known
>
>If I create this user (# adduser starinux) only the account "starinux at aw.rezoperso.net"
>receives the mail.

This is a problem with aliases or with your postfix configuration. You
should not have a local user starinux.

See http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html and it's
subordinate links for more information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 29 01:31:52 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:31:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bouncing admins
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20051028160625.023108d8@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <PC174020051028163152018704ee2d0f@msapiro>

Jared Rimer wrote:

>         I'm running on a domain of mine that has Mailman 
>installed.  The hosting provider moved the account to another server 
>he runs.  Ever since, the notify when subscribers added has not 
>worked correctly.  We've received bounce notifications disabling the 
>one admin because of too many bounces, but the subscription is not 
>disabled.  How does mailman handle this?

The fact that a bouncing address happens to be the address of an Owner
or Moderator is not relevant to Mailman's bounce processing. See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.060.htp

As far as the notices of new subscribers and the disabling is
concerned, it seems that mailman can't successfully mail to the owner
address or to the matching member address. What does the copy of the
bounce in the disable notification say? And where do you receive it?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 29 01:58:31 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 16:58:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce messages
In-Reply-To: <4362A036.2090504@pcraft.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020051028165831071880647f6d@msapiro>

Ashley M. Kirchner wrote:
>
>    We'd like to set one of our lists up so that permanent/fatal errors 
>(such as invalid mailbox, unknown user, unknown host) would immediately 
>get unsubscribed, while temp fails (such as mailbox full, try again 
>later, etc.) will simply go through the normal motions.
>
>    With that, we have a few questions:
>
>    a) Does mailman discern between a temp fail and a permanent fail on 
>a subscriber's address?  Obviously this would be the way to figure out 
>who gets unsubscribed right away and who doesn't.


Yes, but not really well. "Hard" bounces increment the score by 1.0
while "soft" bounces increment the score by 0.5


>    b) How do we configure mailman to do this immediate unsub of the 
>permanent/fatal errors?


See below:


>    b) in logs/bounce, I see various different bounce scores.  Can 
>anyone tell me what those numbers actually mean?
>
>    Jul 16 23:14:54 2005 (1835) user at domain.net: list current bounce 
>score: 3.0
>    Jul 17 05:10:59 2005 (1835) user at domain.com: list current bounce 
>score: 4.0
>    Jul 22 10:21:11 2005 (1835) user at domain.org: list current bounce 
>score: 5.0
>    Jul 27 12:00:49 2005 (1868) user at domain.gov: list current bounce 
>score: 2.0
>    Aug 17 06:17:18 2005 (1868) user at domain.edu list current bounce 
>score: 1.0


It is a report of that user's current bounce score. Read the material
on the Bounce processing page in the list's admin interface.


For configuration try the following bounce processing settings:

bounce_processing Yes

bounce_score_threshold 1.0  i.e. the first hard bounce hits the
threshold, but it takes soft bounces on two days.

bounce_info_stale_after 0 but see below. This is the part that may not
work well for soft bounces.

bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings 0

These settings will cause a member who hard bounces to be unsubscribed
immediately (or sent a probe which will cause the unsubscribe if it
bounces).

The problem is with soft bounces. If you set bounce_info_stale_after to
1 or more, then anyone with soft bounces on two consecutive days (or
any two days with less than bounce_info_stale_after days in between)
will be immediatly unsubscribed. This seems a little harsh. OTOH, if
you set bounce_info_stale_after to 0, soft bounces will never
disable/unsubscribe a member because only one bounce is scored per day
and yesterday's bounce is always stale. This seems a little lenient,
but may in fact be OK

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From horse at darkstar.uk.net  Sat Oct 29 02:08:07 2005
From: horse at darkstar.uk.net (Horse)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 01:08:07 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up an archive list
Message-ID: <4362BD67.4090104@darkstar.uk.net>

Hi All

This is my first post to the list but I've been lurking for a while.
I'm running Mailman 2.1.5 on a debian sarge box with exim 4, apache 1.3 
etc. at home. I also have an account with a hosting company which 
provides mailman 2.1.5 lists and a fairly standard mailman control 
interface.
My home setup runs fine and so far I've had no problems with the couple 
of test lists set up on the host.
What I want to do is to set up a list with the host and forward emails 
received there to a list on my home system purely to provide a backup 
archive. For test purposes I'm only using my home setup at the moment.

I've created a main list (main at domain) and an archive list 
(archive at domain) and added archive at domain to main at domain member list.

archive at domain has no members but in the privacy options /senderfilters 
I've added main at domain to the "List of non-member addresses whose 
postings should be automatically accepted" section.

So far so good.

I post to main at domain and the post goes out to all members including 
archive at domain but there it gets held for approval by the list admin 
(i.e. me). The reason given is:

"Blind carbon copies or other implicit destinations are not allowed. Try
reposting your message by explicitly including the list address in the 
To: or Cc: fields."

I can pass it through to the list manually but would prefer it to go 
through automatically as I intend to do this several lists.
Does anyone have any ideas as to how I can do this. I have access to the 
python source on my machine so I can modify if need be.

Apologies if the detail above is a bit excessive.

Cheers


Horse


From jrimer at tagline.cc  Sat Oct 29 02:09:05 2005
From: jrimer at tagline.cc (Jared Rimer)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:09:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bouncing admins
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051028163152018704ee2d0f@msapiro>
References: <6.2.5.6.2.20051028160625.023108d8@sbcglobal.net>
	<PC174020051028163152018704ee2d0f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20051028170834.022bc588@tagline.cc>

Nark and all,
This is all we have.
> >From: mailman at wbby.us
> >To: Woodlake_el_school-owner at wbby.us
> >Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:46:54 -0500
> >X-BeenThere: Woodlake_el_school at wbby.us
> >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6
> >Sender: mailman-bounces at idea5.anoeticconcepts.com
> >X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it
> >with any abuse report
> >X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - idea5.anoeticconcepts.com
> >X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - codeamber.org
> >X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
> >X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - idea5.anoeticconcepts.com
> >X-Source:
> >X-Source-Args:
> >X-Source-Dir:
> >
> >This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice:
> >
> >     List:       Woodlake_el_school
> >     Member:     woodlake_el_school at yahoo.com
> >     Action:     Subscription disabled.
> >     Reason:     Excessive or fatal bounces.
> >
> >
> >
> >The triggering bounce notice is attached below.
> >
> >Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at mailman at wbby.us.
> >
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >Subject: Woodlake_el_school subscription notification
> >From: mailman-bounces at wbby.us
> >To: Woodlake_el_school-owner at wbby.us
> >Message-ID:
> ><mailman.0.1129049212.10043.woodlake_el_school_wbby.us at wbby.us>
> >Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:46:52 -0500
> >Precedence: bulk
> >X-BeenThere: Woodlake_el_school at wbby.us
> >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6
> >Sender: mailman-bounces at wbby.us
> >Errors-To: mailman-bounces at wbby.us
> >
> >bhavsar <ubhavsah71 at yahoo.com> has been successfully subscribed to
> >Woodlake_el_school.


The address isn't even bouncing on the list.

At 16:31 10/28/2005, you wrote:
>Jared Rimer wrote:
>
> >         I'm running on a domain of mine that has Mailman
> >installed.  The hosting provider moved the account to another server
> >he runs.  Ever since, the notify when subscribers added has not
> >worked correctly.  We've received bounce notifications disabling the
> >one admin because of too many bounces, but the subscription is not
> >disabled.  How does mailman handle this?
>
>The fact that a bouncing address happens to be the address of an Owner
>or Moderator is not relevant to Mailman's bounce processing. See
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.060.htp
>
>As far as the notices of new subscribers and the disabling is
>concerned, it seems that mailman can't successfully mail to the owner
>address or to the matching member address. What does the copy of the
>bounce in the disable notification say? And where do you receive it?
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

Jared Rimer
Business website: http://www.superior-software.com/support
Personal Website: http://www.asmodean.net/jrimer
Music Education Network for the Visually Impaired  http://menvi.org a 
service done through Superior Software level one
WBBY Internet Radio and All In Play team up.  Learn more 
http://www.menvi.org/allinplay
WBBY Internet Radio: www.wbby.us  



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 29 02:19:44 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:19:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up an archive list
In-Reply-To: <4362BD67.4090104@darkstar.uk.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510281719440796f22ec4a8@msapiro>

Horse wrote:
>
>I post to main at domain and the post goes out to all members including 
>archive at domain but there it gets held for approval by the list admin 
>(i.e. me). The reason given is:
>
>"Blind carbon copies or other implicit destinations are not allowed. Try
>reposting your message by explicitly including the list address in the 
>To: or Cc: fields."


In the list configuration for the archive list on, Privacy
options...->Recipient filters, put main at domain in acceptable_aliases.
You could also just set require_explicit_destination Off, but the
alias is better.

Also, on the subscription options for the archive at domain subscription
to the main list, be sure to set "Get password reminder email for this
list?" to No.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jrimer at tagline.cc  Sat Oct 29 02:19:55 2005
From: jrimer at tagline.cc (Jared Rimer)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:19:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up an archive list
In-Reply-To: <4362BD67.4090104@darkstar.uk.net>
References: <4362BD67.4090104@darkstar.uk.net>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20051028171922.02215528@tagline.cc>

Horse,
         Go to privacy, I don't remember if its sender or recipient 
and turn off implicit destination.
At 17:08 10/28/2005, you wrote:
>Hi All
>
>This is my first post to the list but I've been lurking for a while.
>I'm running Mailman 2.1.5 on a debian sarge box with exim 4, apache 1.3
>etc. at home. I also have an account with a hosting company which
>provides mailman 2.1.5 lists and a fairly standard mailman control
>interface.
>My home setup runs fine and so far I've had no problems with the couple
>of test lists set up on the host.
>What I want to do is to set up a list with the host and forward emails
>received there to a list on my home system purely to provide a backup
>archive. For test purposes I'm only using my home setup at the moment.
>
>I've created a main list (main at domain) and an archive list
>(archive at domain) and added archive at domain to main at domain member list.
>
>archive at domain has no members but in the privacy options /senderfilters
>I've added main at domain to the "List of non-member addresses whose
>postings should be automatically accepted" section.
>
>So far so good.
>
>I post to main at domain and the post goes out to all members including
>archive at domain but there it gets held for approval by the list admin
>(i.e. me). The reason given is:
>
>"Blind carbon copies or other implicit destinations are not allowed. Try
>reposting your message by explicitly including the list address in the
>To: or Cc: fields."
>
>I can pass it through to the list manually but would prefer it to go
>through automatically as I intend to do this several lists.
>Does anyone have any ideas as to how I can do this. I have access to the
>python source on my machine so I can modify if need be.
>
>Apologies if the detail above is a bit excessive.
>
>Cheers
>
>
>Horse
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe: 
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jrimer%40tagline.cc
>
>Security Policy: 
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

Jared Rimer
Business website: http://www.superior-software.com/support
Personal Website: http://www.asmodean.net/jrimer
Music Education Network for the Visually Impaired  http://menvi.org a 
service done through Superior Software level one
WBBY Internet Radio and All In Play team up.  Learn more 
http://www.menvi.org/allinplay
WBBY Internet Radio: www.wbby.us 



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 29 02:51:28 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:51:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bouncing admins
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20051028170834.022bc588@tagline.cc>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510281751280984c8a69694@msapiro>

Jared Rimer wrote:

>Nark and all,
>This is all we have.
>> >From: mailman at wbby.us
>> >To: Woodlake_el_school-owner at wbby.us
>> >Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:46:54 -0500
>> >X-BeenThere: Woodlake_el_school at wbby.us
>> >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6
>> >Sender: mailman-bounces at idea5.anoeticconcepts.com
>> >X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it
>> >with any abuse report
>> >X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - idea5.anoeticconcepts.com
>> >X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - codeamber.org
>> >X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
>> >X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - idea5.anoeticconcepts.com
>> >X-Source:
>> >X-Source-Args:
>> >X-Source-Dir:
>> >
>> >This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice:
>> >
>> >     List:       Woodlake_el_school
>> >     Member:     woodlake_el_school at yahoo.com
>> >     Action:     Subscription disabled.
>> >     Reason:     Excessive or fatal bounces.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >The triggering bounce notice is attached below.
>> >
>> >Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at mailman at wbby.us.
>> >
>> >MIME-Version: 1.0
>> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>> >Subject: Woodlake_el_school subscription notification
>> >From: mailman-bounces at wbby.us
>> >To: Woodlake_el_school-owner at wbby.us
>> >Message-ID:
>> ><mailman.0.1129049212.10043.woodlake_el_school_wbby.us at wbby.us>
>> >Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:46:52 -0500
>> >Precedence: bulk
>> >X-BeenThere: Woodlake_el_school at wbby.us
>> >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6
>> >Sender: mailman-bounces at wbby.us
>> >Errors-To: mailman-bounces at wbby.us
>> >
>> >bhavsar <ubhavsah71 at yahoo.com> has been successfully subscribed to
>> >Woodlake_el_school.

This message looks very suspicious (i.e.faked). What do you see in
Eudora if you open the message and click 'Blah Blah Blah' to see ALL
the headers.

The alleged triggering bounce is not a bounce at all, but a copy of a
subscribe notification.


>The address isn't even bouncing on the list.


All the more reason to think the message is a fake since the
subscription wasn't disabled.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jrimer at tagline.cc  Sat Oct 29 02:59:35 2005
From: jrimer at tagline.cc (Jared Rimer)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 17:59:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bouncing admins
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510281751280984c8a69694@msapiro>
References: <6.2.5.6.2.20051028170834.022bc588@tagline.cc>
	<PC1740200510281751280984c8a69694@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20051028175824.023d7e90@tagline.cc>

I don't have my copy any more,  but this has been the problem since 
we've moved.  Shall I re-enable the option to send notifications and 
when I get another one send it to the list?

At 17:51 10/28/2005, you wrote:
>Jared Rimer wrote:
>
> >Nark and all,
> >This is all we have.
> >> >From: mailman at wbby.us
> >> >To: Woodlake_el_school-owner at wbby.us
> >> >Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:46:54 -0500
> >> >X-BeenThere: Woodlake_el_school at wbby.us
> >> >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6
> >> >Sender: mailman-bounces at idea5.anoeticconcepts.com
> >> >X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it
> >> >with any abuse report
> >> >X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - idea5.anoeticconcepts.com
> >> >X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - codeamber.org
> >> >X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
> >> >X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - idea5.anoeticconcepts.com
> >> >X-Source:
> >> >X-Source-Args:
> >> >X-Source-Dir:
> >> >
> >> >This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice:
> >> >
> >> >     List:       Woodlake_el_school
> >> >     Member:     woodlake_el_school at yahoo.com
> >> >     Action:     Subscription disabled.
> >> >     Reason:     Excessive or fatal bounces.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >The triggering bounce notice is attached below.
> >> >
> >> >Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at mailman at wbby.us.
> >> >
> >> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >> >Subject: Woodlake_el_school subscription notification
> >> >From: mailman-bounces at wbby.us
> >> >To: Woodlake_el_school-owner at wbby.us
> >> >Message-ID:
> >> ><mailman.0.1129049212.10043.woodlake_el_school_wbby.us at wbby.us>
> >> >Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 11:46:52 -0500
> >> >Precedence: bulk
> >> >X-BeenThere: Woodlake_el_school at wbby.us
> >> >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6
> >> >Sender: mailman-bounces at wbby.us
> >> >Errors-To: mailman-bounces at wbby.us
> >> >
> >> >bhavsar <ubhavsah71 at yahoo.com> has been successfully subscribed to
> >> >Woodlake_el_school.
>
>This message looks very suspicious (i.e.faked). What do you see in
>Eudora if you open the message and click 'Blah Blah Blah' to see ALL
>the headers.
>
>The alleged triggering bounce is not a bounce at all, but a copy of a
>subscribe notification.
>
>
> >The address isn't even bouncing on the list.
>
>
>All the more reason to think the message is a fake since the
>subscription wasn't disabled.
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

Jared Rimer
Business website: http://www.superior-software.com/support
Personal Website: http://www.asmodean.net/jrimer
Music Education Network for the Visually Impaired  http://menvi.org a 
service done through Superior Software level one
WBBY Internet Radio and All In Play team up.  Learn more 
http://www.menvi.org/allinplay
WBBY Internet Radio: www.wbby.us 



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 29 03:23:14 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 18:23:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bouncing admins
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20051028175824.023d7e90@tagline.cc>
Message-ID: <PC17402005102818231404846cc2f012@msapiro>

Jared Rimer wrote:

>I don't have my copy any more,  but this has been the problem since 
>we've moved.  Shall I re-enable the option to send notifications and 
>when I get another one send it to the list?

You can do that.

If you're willing to experiment, answers to the following questions
would be interesting and helpful.

What does the full 'bounce action notice' look like, complete with all
headers and attached parts?

How often does this occur?

Is the subscription really disabled (I think you said no)?

What happens if bounce processing is turned off for the list?

If you have access to Mailman's bounce log, what's there associated
with this address?

I guess it is possible that there is some wierd alias loop causing
this, but I can't think how. I only say that because the member's user
name is apparently the same as the list name although the domains are
different.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jrimer at tagline.cc  Sat Oct 29 03:30:12 2005
From: jrimer at tagline.cc (Jared Rimer)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 18:30:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bouncing admins
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005102818231404846cc2f012@msapiro>
References: <6.2.5.6.2.20051028175824.023d7e90@tagline.cc>
	<PC17402005102818231404846cc2f012@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20051028182740.023d6d60@tagline.cc>

At 18:23 10/28/2005, you wrote:
>Jared Rimer wrote:
>
> >I don't have my copy any more,  but this has been the problem since
> >we've moved.  Shall I re-enable the option to send notifications and
> >when I get another one send it to the list?
>
>You can do that.
>
>If you're willing to experiment, answers to the following questions
>would be interesting and helpful.
>
>What does the full 'bounce action notice' look like, complete with all
>headers and attached parts?

That's all there is, I'll have to get a copy to show you anything else new.


>How often does this occur?

Maybe once a week or two since this occurred.


>Is the subscription really disabled (I think you said no)?

No, the subscription is not disabled.


>What happens if bounce processing is turned off for the list?

I don't think we'd get bounces that were lidigament if address were 
inactive or something no?


>If you have access to Mailman's bounce log, what's there associated
>with this address?

That I don't we're running under Cpannel.


>I guess it is possible that there is some wierd alias loop causing
>this, but I can't think how. I only say that because the member's user
>name is apparently the same as the list name although the domains are
>different.

Then why isn't my address bounce?  We have changed addresses in the 
past, the hotmail address bounced with the same as before.


>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

Jared Rimer
Business website: http://www.superior-software.com/support
Personal Website: http://www.asmodean.net/jrimer
Music Education Network for the Visually Impaired  http://menvi.org a 
service done through Superior Software level one
WBBY Internet Radio and All In Play team up.  Learn more 
http://www.menvi.org/allinplay
WBBY Internet Radio: www.wbby.us 



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Oct 29 06:12:34 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 21:12:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A non-text attachment was scrubbed... --
	URLbreak
In-Reply-To: <20051028185824.GA17640@business.aau.dk>
Message-ID: <PC17402005102821123402038428e84d@msapiro>

Lars Anderson wrote:
>
>I'm seeing the same thing. It works OK as long as the body of the 
>message is us-ascii, but if it contains characters like ??? 
>(iso-8859-1) the message  is printed in the archive as quoted printables 
>(litteraly) and the link is mangled like reported by the OP.
>
>The message is sent fine to the list, _unless_ msg_footer is empty. If 
>it is empty the message mailed to list also contains quoted printables. 
>
>(If scrub_nondigest is set to no, archiving works perfectly fine with 
>iso-8559-1 characters)


I see it too on a test system with Mailman 2.1.6. Thanks to your
description of the triggering conditions, I can duplicate the problem.

It will be a few days before I have time to look at this further, but
I'll report what I find to the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From antoine at starinux.org  Sat Oct 29 09:54:29 2005
From: antoine at starinux.org (antoine at starinux.org)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 09:54:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] name of my mailing-list adress ...
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051028161935076504ee2f40@msapiro>
References: <PC174020051028161935076504ee2f40@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200510290954.29983.antoine@starinux.org>

> This is a problem with aliases or with your postfix configuration. You
> should not have a local user starinux.
> See http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html and it's
> subordinate links for more information.
*  *  *
I will see about those informations.

How to delete a mailing-list in Mailman ?

See you.

antoine


From horse at darkstar.uk.net  Sat Oct 29 11:37:14 2005
From: horse at darkstar.uk.net (Horse)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 10:37:14 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up an archive list
Message-ID: <436342CA.2020300@darkstar.uk.net>

Mark, Jared

Thanks for the suggestions - they worked perfectly. The setup now works 
just as I wanted it to.

Many thanks


Horse



Jared Rimer wrote:
 > Horse,
 >          Go to privacy, I don't remember if its sender or recipient
 > and turn off implicit destination.


Mark Sapiro wrote:

 > Horse wrote:
 >
 >> I post to main at domain and the post goes out to all members including 
archive at domain but there it gets held for approval by the list admin 
(i.e. me). The reason given is:
 >>
 >> "Blind carbon copies or other implicit destinations are not allowed. Try
 >> reposting your message by explicitly including the list address in 
the To: or Cc: fields."
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > In the list configuration for the archive list on, Privacy
 > options...->Recipient filters, put main at domain in acceptable_aliases.
 > You could also just set require_explicit_destination Off, but the
 > alias is better.
 >
 > Also, on the subscription options for the archive at domain subscription
 > to the main list, be sure to set "Get password reminder email for this
 > list?" to No.
 >



From antoine at starinux.org  Sat Oct 29 12:01:47 2005
From: antoine at starinux.org (antoine at starinux.org)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 12:01:47 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] name of my mailing-list adress ...
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051028161935076504ee2f40@msapiro>
References: <PC174020051028161935076504ee2f40@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200510291201.47454.antoine@starinux.org>

> This is a problem with aliases or with your postfix configuration. You
> should not have a local user starinux.
>  See http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html and it's
> subordinate links for more information.
*  *  *

I check everything, the help above and always this :
<starinux at rezoperso.net>: unknown user: "starinux"

<starinux at rezoperso.net>: is the Email adress of the list "starinux"

I don't have a user "starinux"

What happens ... ?

thanks .

antoine


From antoine at starinux.org  Sat Oct 29 14:11:57 2005
From: antoine at starinux.org (antoine at starinux.org)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 14:11:57 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman post mailman". Command output: Group
	mismatch error
Message-ID: <200510291411.58021.antoine@starinux.org>

Hallo,

How to repair this error ? :
*  *  *
<mailman at rezoperso.net>: Command died with status 2:
    "/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman". Command output: Group
    mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as
    group "daemon", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as
    group "users".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group
    "daemon", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option
    `--with-mail-gid=users'.
*  *  *

Thanks !

antoine


From thomas at btspuhler.com  Sat Oct 29 17:13:39 2005
From: thomas at btspuhler.com (Thomas Spuhler)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 08:13:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] name of my mailing-list adress ...
In-Reply-To: <200510291201.47454.antoine@starinux.org>
References: <PC174020051028161935076504ee2f40@msapiro>
	<200510291201.47454.antoine@starinux.org>
Message-ID: <200510290813.40068.thomas@btspuhler.com>

On Saturday 29 October 2005 03:01 am, antoine at starinux.org wrote:
> > This is a problem with aliases or with your postfix configuration. You
> > should not have a local user starinux.
> >  See http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html and it's
> > subordinate links for more information.
>
> *  *  *
>
> I check everything, the help above and always this :
> <starinux at rezoperso.net>: unknown user: "starinux"
>
> <starinux at rezoperso.net>: is the Email adress of the list "starinux"
>
> I don't have a user "starinux"
>
> What happens ... ?
Which distribution are you using. This may be that same problem I have.

>
> thanks .
>
> antoine
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/thomas%40btspuhler.com
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

-- 
Best regards
Thomas Spuhler

All e-mail from this domain is scanned for viruses


From antoine at starinux.org  Sat Oct 29 17:44:17 2005
From: antoine at starinux.org (antoine at starinux.org)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 17:44:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] name of my mailing-list adress ...
In-Reply-To: <200510290813.40068.thomas@btspuhler.com>
References: <PC174020051028161935076504ee2f40@msapiro>
	<200510291201.47454.antoine@starinux.org>
	<200510290813.40068.thomas@btspuhler.com>
Message-ID: <200510291744.17806.antoine@starinux.org>

> > I check everything, the help above and always this :
> > <starinux at rezoperso.net>: unknown user: "starinux"
> > <starinux at rezoperso.net>: is the Email adress of the list "starinux"
> > I don't have a user "starinux"
> > What happens ... ?
***
> Which distribution are you using. This may be that same problem I have.
*  *  *

Version : 2.1.5

bugs with this one ?

antoine


From lists05 at equinephotoart.com  Sat Oct 29 18:33:12 2005
From: lists05 at equinephotoart.com (JC Dill)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 09:33:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman post mailman". Command output: Group
 mismatch error
In-Reply-To: <200510291411.58021.antoine@starinux.org>
References: <200510291411.58021.antoine@starinux.org>
Message-ID: <4363A448.2000607@equinephotoart.com>

antoine at starinux.org wrote:
> Hallo,
> 
> How to repair this error ? :
> *  *  *
> <mailman at rezoperso.net>: Command died with status 2:
>     "/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman". Command output: Group
>     mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as
>     group "daemon", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as
>     group "users".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group
>     "daemon", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option
>     `--with-mail-gid=users'.
> 

I think you should try tweaking the mail server to run the script as 
group "daemon".

Or re-run configure,  providing the command line option

      `--with-mail-gid=users'.

But that's just a guess.

(Well, not really a guess.)

You could also go to the mailman FAQ (following the link in the footer 
of every email you receive from this list) and search on:

	group mismatch

Which finds 2 FAQ entries that explain this issue in greater detail.

Use the FAQ, Antoine.  :-)

jc



From antoine at starinux.org  Sat Oct 29 18:45:56 2005
From: antoine at starinux.org (antoine at starinux.org)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 18:45:56 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman post mailman". Command output: Group
	mismatch error
In-Reply-To: <4363A448.2000607@equinephotoart.com>
References: <200510291411.58021.antoine@starinux.org>
	<4363A448.2000607@equinephotoart.com>
Message-ID: <200510291845.56589.antoine@starinux.org>

> > <mailman at rezoperso.net>: Command died with status 2:
> >     "/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman". Command output: Group
> >     mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as
> >     group "daemon", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as
> >     group "users".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as group
> >     "daemon", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option
> >     `--with-mail-gid=users'.
*******************************************
> > Use the FAQ, Antoine.  :-)
> 	group mismatch
> Which finds 2 FAQ entries that explain this issue in greater detail.

you are right ... :-)  and I will go on the FAQ

> I think you should try tweaking the mail server to run the script as 
> group "daemon".
> Or re-run configure,  providing the command line option
>`--with-mail-gid=users'.

it's because I tried with "# chown root:daemon wrapper"
=> does not work , same error message above

But a good new for me, I succeed :
/etc/postfix/main.cf => I changed :
alias_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases

and now works fine !
(it came from "postfix")

Thanks JC !

antoine


From thomas at btspuhler.com  Sat Oct 29 21:39:01 2005
From: thomas at btspuhler.com (Thomas Spuhler)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 12:39:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] name of my mailing-list adress ...
In-Reply-To: <200510291744.17806.antoine@starinux.org>
References: <PC174020051028161935076504ee2f40@msapiro>
	<200510290813.40068.thomas@btspuhler.com>
	<200510291744.17806.antoine@starinux.org>
Message-ID: <200510291239.02083.thomas@btspuhler.com>

On Saturday 29 October 2005 08:44 am, antoine at starinux.org wrote:
> > > I check everything, the help above and always this :
> > > <starinux at rezoperso.net>: unknown user: "starinux"
> > > <starinux at rezoperso.net>: is the Email adress of the list "starinux"
> > > I don't have a user "starinux"
> > > What happens ... ?
>
> ***
>
> > Which distribution are you using. This may be that same problem I have.
>
> *  *  *
>
> Version : 2.1.5
I have Ver. 2.1.6
>
> bugs with this one ?
I mean which linux distribution (SUSE, Mandriva, Fedora...)
I am using Mandriva 2006. It worked in 2005Le.

>
> antoine
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/thomas%40btspuhler.com
>
> Security Policy:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

-- 
Best regards
Thomas Spuhler

All e-mail from this domain is scanned for viruses


From antoine at starinux.org  Sat Oct 29 22:23:15 2005
From: antoine at starinux.org (antoine at starinux.org)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 22:23:15 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] name of my mailing-list adress ...
In-Reply-To: <200510291239.02083.thomas@btspuhler.com>
References: <PC174020051028161935076504ee2f40@msapiro>
	<200510291744.17806.antoine@starinux.org>
	<200510291239.02083.thomas@btspuhler.com>
Message-ID: <200510292223.15573.antoine@starinux.org>

> > > Which distribution are you using. This may be that same problem I have.
> > Version : 2.1.5
> I have Ver. 2.1.6
> > bugs with this one ?
> I mean which linux distribution (SUSE, Mandriva, Fedora...)
> I am using Mandriva 2006. It worked in 2005Le.
*  *  *
I'm on Debian-Sarge.
now, as I said on this ML, it works fine,
but some bugs with the navigator mode, better to use the console mode.
When I add a ML list with the navigator :
"http://rezoperso.net/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/"
my lists does not appear ...
with the console and command : "# listnew ..."
it's ok my lists appears ...
is it a bug ?

antoine


From manuelk at fibertel.com.ar  Sat Oct 29 23:05:36 2005
From: manuelk at fibertel.com.ar (Manuel Kissoyan)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 18:05:36 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman keeps going down
Message-ID: <024601c5dccc$829a0c20$6401a8c0@sarna>

Hello,

wondering where we can find any log that let us know why mailman is going down often, i did search in the logs and find :

Oct 29 00:44:22 2005 (2108) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 22079, sig: None, sts: 1, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
Oct 29 00:44:22 2005 (2108) Qrunner VirginRunner reached maximum restart limit of 10, not restarting.
Oct 29 01:47:15 2005 (5861) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Oct 29 01:47:15 2005 (5856) CommandRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Oct 29 01:47:15 2005 (5858) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Oct 29 01:47:15 2005 (5861) RetryRunner qrunner exiting.
Oct 29 01:47:15 2005 (5856) CommandRunner qrunner exiting.
Oct 29 01:47:15 2005 (5858) NewsRunner qrunner exiting.
Oct 29 01:47:15 2005 (22117) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Oct 29 01:47:15 2005 (22117) VirginRunner qrunner exiting.
Oct 29 01:47:15 2005 (29169) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Oct 29 01:47:15 2005 (29169) OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting.
Oct 29 20:51:03 2005 (11801) ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Oct 29 20:51:03 2005 (11492) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Oct 29 20:51:03 2005 (11801) ArchRunner qrunner exiting.
Oct 29 20:51:03 2005 (21057) BounceRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Oct 29 20:51:03 2005 (11492) IncomingRunner qrunner exiting.
Oct 29 20:51:03 2005 (21057) BounceRunner qrunner exiting.
Oct 29 20:51:03 2005 (2108) Master watcher caught SIGTERM.  Exiting.
Oct 29 20:51:04 2005 (2108) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 11492, sig: None, sts: 15, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) 
Oct 29 20:51:04 2005 (2108) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 21057, sig: None, sts: 15, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) 
Oct 29 20:51:04 2005 (2108) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 11801, sig: None, sts: 15, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1) 


any other way to see why this going down?

thank you in advance!



From zeus at procapperschallenge.com  Sun Oct 30 01:42:20 2005
From: zeus at procapperschallenge.com (zeus at procapperschallenge.com)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 18:42:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MemoryError
Message-ID: <DEENICAJDFFOKEPANBLKOEPICOAA.zeus@procapperschallenge.com>


I am getting the following error with mailman 2.1.6, red-hat. It started to
occur while a customer was importing a new set of email adresss into their
mailinglist. They can login to the webadmin, but when they click on
"Membership" they get the "Weve Hit A Bug" message. This is what I see in
the error.log


I have searched around for what it could be, but cant find anything on this
specific problem

admin(7105): MemoryError
admin(7105): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(7105): sys.version     =   2.2.3 (#1, Feb  2 2005, 12:20:51)
[GCC 3.2.3 20030502 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.3-49)]
admin(7105): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python
admin(7105): sys.prefix      =   /usr
admin(7105): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr
admin(7105): sys.path        =   /usr
admin(7105): sys.platform    =   linux2
admin(7105): [----- Environment Variables -----]
admin(7105):    HTTP_COOKIE:
newsletters_procapperschallenge.com+admin=28020000006910f2634373280000003761
316139346239656165653537633762363363306230$
admin(7105):    SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/1.3.33 (Unix)
mod_auth_passthrough/1.8 mod_log_bytes/1.2 mod_bwlimited/1.4 PHP/4.3.11
FrontPage/5.0.2.2635 $
admin(7105):    PYTHONPATH: /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman
admin(7105):    SCRIPT_FILENAME:
/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/cgi-bin/admin
admin(7105):    SERVER_ADMIN: webmaster at professionalcapperschallenge.com
admin(7105):    SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/admin
admin(7105):    REQUEST_METHOD: GET
admin(7105):    HTTP_HOST: procapperschallenge.com
admin(7105):    PATH_INFO: /newsletters_procapperschallenge.com/members
admin(7105):    SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1
admin(7105):    QUERY_STRING:
admin(7105):    REQUEST_URI:
/mailman/admin/newsletters_procapperschallenge.com/members
admin(7105):    HTTP_ACCEPT: image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg,
image/pjpeg, application/x-shockwave-flash, application/vnd.ms-powerpoint,
app$
admin(7105):    HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows
NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322; .NET CLR 1.0.3705)
admin(7105):    HTTP_CONNECTION: Keep-Alive
admin(7105):    HTTP_REFERER:
http://procapperschallenge.com/mailman/admin/newsletters_procapperschallenge
.com
admin(7105):    SERVER_NAME: www.professionalcapperschallenge.com
admin(7105):    REMOTE_ADDR: 67.184.23.240
admin(7105):    REMOTE_PORT: 33760
admin(7105):    HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en-us
admin(7105):    PATH_TRANSLATED:
/home/dpage/public_html/newsletters_procapperschallenge.com/members
admin(7105):    SERVER_PORT: 80
admin(7105):    GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
admin(7105):    HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip, deflate
admin(7105):    SERVER_ADDR: 70.86.123.210
admin(7105):    DOCUMENT_ROOT: /home/dpage/public_html





From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct 30 06:26:22 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 22:26:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] name of my mailing-list adress ...
In-Reply-To: <200510292223.15573.antoine@starinux.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510292226220805b353315b@msapiro>

antoine at starinux.org wrote:
>now, as I said on this ML, it works fine,

Good to hear it.

>but some bugs with the navigator mode, better to use the console mode.
>When I add a ML list with the navigator :
>"http://rezoperso.net/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/"
>my lists does not appear ...
>with the console and command : "# listnew ..."
>it's ok my lists appears ...
>is it a bug ?


No. It is a problem with your DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST, DEFAULT_URL_HOST
and/or add_virtualhost() in Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py.

See FAQ 4.29

Also note, if you are not using multiple (virtual) hosts, setting
VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off in mm_cfg.py will allow all public lists
to appear on any listinfo and admin overview page. Otherwise, the list
only appears if the host-name in the web page URL matches the
host-name in the list's web_page_url attribute.


Regarding your earlier question about deleting lists.

If you set OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = Yes in mm_cfg.py, there
will be a 'Delete this mailing list' link on the admin pages (just
above 'Logout' on the top right).

Otherwise, bin/rmlist or just delete the lists/list_name directory and
the relevant directories and symlinks in archives/private and
archives/public.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct 30 06:37:25 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 22:37:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <DEENICAJDFFOKEPANBLKOEPICOAA.zeus@procapperschallenge.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510292237250430abc61e47@msapiro>

<zeus at procapperschallenge.com> wrote:
>
>I am getting the following error with mailman 2.1.6, red-hat. It started to
>occur while a customer was importing a new set of email adresss into their
>mailinglist. They can login to the webadmin, but when they click on
>"Membership" they get the "Weve Hit A Bug" message. This is what I see in
>the error.log
>
>
>I have searched around for what it could be, but cant find anything on this
>specific problem
>
>admin(7105): MemoryError
>admin(7105): [----- Python Information -----]
>admin(7105): sys.version     =   2.2.3 (#1, Feb  2 2005, 12:20:51)
>[GCC 3.2.3 20030502 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.3-49)]
<snip>


And what immediately precedes this in the log. The part that begins:

mmm dd hh:mm:ss yyyy admin(pid):
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 
admin(pid): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.6 -----] 
admin(pid): [----- Traceback ------]

followed by the traceback.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From nicku at nicku.org  Sun Oct 30 06:37:48 2005
From: nicku at nicku.org (Nick Urbanik)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 16:37:48 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Authenticate mailman subscribers to wiki
Message-ID: <20051030053748.GB13491@nicku.org>

Dear Folks,

I'm sorry if this has been answered elsewhere, but my search through
the archives hasn't turned anything up yet.

I want to use the same email address and passwords used by mailman to
authenticate users of an Apache 2.x driven web site to particular web
pages.  In particular, I thought I'd set up some Moinmoin wikis for
mailman subscribers for corresponding lists to be able to edit.

Any pointers to how to go about that?  Can mailman easily export/make
available its email addresses and passwords for use by Apache?
-- 
Nick Urbanik   RHCE       http://nicku.org          nicku(at)nicku.org
Proud ex-member of Dept. of Information & Communications Technology in
Hong Kong IVE (Tsing Yi), Home of Visual Paradigm: Jolt Productivity
Award winner, programmed by ICT's own graduates!
GPG: 7FFA CDC7 5A77 0558 DC7A 790A 16DF EC5B BB9D 2C24    ID: BB9D2C24
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From gtsubs at tpg.com.au  Sun Oct 30 07:48:49 2005
From: gtsubs at tpg.com.au (gtsubs at tpg.com.au)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 17:48:49 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman setup
Message-ID: <1130654929.43646cd1d2260@postoffice.tpg.com.au>


We have been using Mailman for about 18 months as a read only list for members
of our volunteer organisation.

After a short while we started getting complaints that members were not
receiving their e-mails, but could never find a reason why.

We happened on the reason recently...  Discussion with our web host on another
subject, revealed that our mailserver is set to limit outgoing e-mail to 500 per
hour as an anti-spam measure. As our mailing list now has about 1000 names on
it, half of them are getting their mail dumped by the server every time we send
anything.

Our host is unwilling to alter the server settings.  Is there any way Mailman
can be set to  "batch process" a single post? (ie, can we send the list one
mail, and have it send out the first 450 mails right away, then the next 450 an
hour later, etc. until all are gone? We want to leave a 50 e-mail margin for
error, and so we can still send ordinary mail in the hours after a mailout.)

Thanks,

G


From antoine at starinux.org  Sun Oct 30 11:04:36 2005
From: antoine at starinux.org (antoine at starinux.org)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 11:04:36 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] email from Mailman (cron)l
Message-ID: <200510301104.37092.antoine@starinux.org>

Hi,

I receive this Email from (cron) Mailman :
********************
Cron <antoine at aw> /usr/bin/python -S /var/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news
 From : Cron Daemon <root at rezoperso.net>
 To : antoine at rezoperso.net
 Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 284, in ?
    main()
  File "/var/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 259, in main
    lock.lock(timeout=0.5)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 243, in lock
    self.__write()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 422, in __write
    fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/locks/gate_news.lock.aw.4567.0'
********************
What it means ?
My network is = rezoperso.net
My Hostname is aw.rezoperso.net

thanks !

antoine



From bmp at univexsystems.com  Sun Oct 30 13:14:01 2005
From: bmp at univexsystems.com (Brian Parish)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 23:14:01 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting started with Postfix virtual domains
Message-ID: <200510302314.01760.bmp@univexsystems.com>

I have been hosting using Postfix for a while now, but am just setting up 
Mailmain for the first time.  Following the installation instructions, I am 
breaking postfix when adding the virtual-mailman entry to my 
virtual_alias_maps line in main.cf

This is obviously because at this point virtual-mailman.db does not exist, but 
I don't see a step to create it.  Presumably I am missing the bleeding 
obvious here?

TIA
Brian


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct 30 17:26:06 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 08:26:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] email from Mailman (cron)l
In-Reply-To: <200510301104.37092.antoine@starinux.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402005103008260601876de0a1c1@msapiro>

antoine at starinux.org wrote:
>
>I receive this Email from (cron) Mailman :
>********************
>Cron <antoine at aw> /usr/bin/python -S /var/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news
> From : Cron Daemon <root at rezoperso.net>
> To : antoine at rezoperso.net
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/var/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 284, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/var/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 259, in main
>    lock.lock(timeout=0.5)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 243, in lock
>    self.__write()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 422, in __write
>    fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
>IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/locks/gate_news.lock.aw.4567.0'

It means the gate_news cron doesn't have permission to create a lock
file.

It appears that the crontab belongs to you (antoine). It needs to be
installed as 'mailman' so it runs as group 'mailman'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct 30 18:03:15 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 09:03:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting started with Postfix virtual domains
In-Reply-To: <200510302314.01760.bmp@univexsystems.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005103009031509845cbd4c07@msapiro>

Brian Parish wrote:

>I have been hosting using Postfix for a while now, but am just setting up 
>Mailmain for the first time.  Following the installation instructions, I am 
>breaking postfix when adding the virtual-mailman entry to my 
>virtual_alias_maps line in main.cf
>
>This is obviously because at this point virtual-mailman.db does not exist, but 
>I don't see a step to create it.  Presumably I am missing the bleeding 
>obvious here?


Did you run bin/genaliases?

Have you set MTA = 'Postfix' in mm_cfg.py?

Have you set POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS in mm_cfg.py?

Are there any lists with host_name attribute matching a domain in
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS ?

See http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html


Does data/virtual-mailman exist? If so and data/virtual-mailman.db does
not exist, does POSTFIX_MAP_CMD in Defaults.py point to the right
command file (if not, set it in mm_cfg.py.).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct 30 18:06:27 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 09:06:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman setup
In-Reply-To: <1130654929.43646cd1d2260@postoffice.tpg.com.au>
Message-ID: <PC174020051030090627096833ec0583@msapiro>

gtsubs at tpg.com.au wrote:
>
>Our host is unwilling to alter the server settings.  Is there any way Mailman
>can be set to  "batch process" a single post? (ie, can we send the list one
>mail, and have it send out the first 450 mails right away, then the next 450 an
>hour later, etc. until all are gone? We want to leave a 50 e-mail margin for
>error, and so we can still send ordinary mail in the hours after a mailout.)


No, there's nothing in Mailman to do that. You could modify
Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py to do it, but it's not currently any
kind of configuration option.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct 30 18:24:59 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 09:24:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman keeps going down
In-Reply-To: <024601c5dccc$829a0c20$6401a8c0@sarna>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510300924590312f125ecd3@msapiro>

Manuel Kissoyan wrote:
>
>wondering where we can find any log that let us know why mailman is going down often, i did search in the logs and find :
>
>Oct 29 00:44:22 2005 (2108) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 22079, sig: None, sts: 1, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1) [restarting]
>Oct 29 00:44:22 2005 (2108) Qrunner VirginRunner reached maximum restart limit of 10, not restarting.
>Oct 29 01:47:15 2005 (5861) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>Oct 29 01:47:15 2005 (5856) CommandRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>Oct 29 01:47:15 2005 (5858) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>Oct 29 01:47:15 2005 (5861) RetryRunner qrunner exiting.
>Oct 29 01:47:15 2005 (5856) CommandRunner qrunner exiting.
>Oct 29 01:47:15 2005 (5858) NewsRunner qrunner exiting.
>Oct 29 01:47:15 2005 (22117) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>Oct 29 01:47:15 2005 (22117) VirginRunner qrunner exiting.
>Oct 29 01:47:15 2005 (29169) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>Oct 29 01:47:15 2005 (29169) OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting.
>Oct 29 20:51:03 2005 (11801) ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>Oct 29 20:51:03 2005 (11492) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>Oct 29 20:51:03 2005 (11801) ArchRunner qrunner exiting.
>Oct 29 20:51:03 2005 (21057) BounceRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>Oct 29 20:51:03 2005 (11492) IncomingRunner qrunner exiting.
>Oct 29 20:51:03 2005 (21057) BounceRunner qrunner exiting.
>Oct 29 20:51:03 2005 (2108) Master watcher caught SIGTERM.  Exiting.
>Oct 29 20:51:04 2005 (2108) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 11492, sig: None, sts: 15, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) 
>Oct 29 20:51:04 2005 (2108) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 21057, sig: None, sts: 15, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) 
>Oct 29 20:51:04 2005 (2108) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 11801, sig: None, sts: 15, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1) 
>
>
>any other way to see why this going down?

The info you found in the qrunner log is probably all there is. At
20:51:03, the master caught a SIGTERM. This could be the result of a
"bin/mailmanctl stop" command or something else. This may be the
reason the Incoming, Bounce and Arch qrunners were sent SIGTERM at
20:51:03, but probably not because normally, the "Master watcher
caught SIGTERM" entry would be first in that case. It is certainly not
the reason the other runners were sent SIGTERM at 01:47:15.

There may be entries in Mailman's error log about this, but probably
not. Look for error log entries at these times. Most likely, these
SIGTERM signals were generated externally, either automatically by the
OS because of some OS limit or other condition, or by some other
process (maybe manually invoked).

There may be further information in some OS log.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Oct 30 18:58:32 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 09:58:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Authenticate mailman subscribers to wiki
In-Reply-To: <20051030053748.GB13491@nicku.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510300958320546880cc662@msapiro>

Nick Urbanik wrote:

>I want to use the same email address and passwords used by mailman to
>authenticate users of an Apache 2.x driven web site to particular web
>pages.  In particular, I thought I'd set up some Moinmoin wikis for
>mailman subscribers for corresponding lists to be able to edit.
>
>Any pointers to how to go about that?  Can mailman easily export/make
>available its email addresses and passwords for use by Apache?

You could (for example) modify the bin/list_members script to list
passwords or just strip it down and make it get the passwords  - using
the mlist.getMemberPassword(member) method - and produce something
which can be easily processed in a shell script to make an
AuthUserFile file which you would reference from a .htaccess file.

Or you could probably make a single Python script to create the
AuthUserFile file directly.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From heather at madrone.com  Sun Oct 30 22:30:19 2005
From: heather at madrone.com (Heather Madrone)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 14:30:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unwinding mailman's use of domains
Message-ID: <p0623094bbf8ae37e870b@[192.168.123.137]>

I'm moving Mailman from OS X 10.2.8 to OS X 10.4.2, and am 
trying to find a way not to set up the new configuration with virtual
domains.

On Macs, the local hostname is "xxx.local."  On the old system, I
used add_virtualhost to correct the urls.  That worked, but it put my
mailman installation in a virtual host jail that meant that I had to 
address the web site using that specific url.  I couldn't just connect
to the web site using any of the other ways that I might want to
address my machine. 

I'd like to set up the new server so that I can access my Mailman
pages in any of the following ways:

	http://www.host.domain/mailman/listinfo
	http://localhost/mailman/listinfo
	http://192.168.123.100/mailman/listinfo
	http://host.local/mailman/listinfo

Is there a way to reset the DEFAULT_URL_HOST and 
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST to use host.domain without
setting up virtual hosts?

-- 
Heather Madrone <heather at madrone.com> 
The Home-Ed List:  http://www.madrone.com/Home-ed/helist.html

You can lead a child to learning, but you can't make her think.


From bmp at univexsystems.com  Mon Oct 31 00:26:46 2005
From: bmp at univexsystems.com (Brian Parish)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:26:46 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting started with Postfix virtual domains
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005103009031509845cbd4c07@msapiro>
References: <PC17402005103009031509845cbd4c07@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200510311026.46813.bmp@univexsystems.com>

On Monday 31 October 2005 04:03, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Brian Parish wrote:
> >I have been hosting using Postfix for a while now, but am just setting up
> >Mailmain for the first time.  Following the installation instructions, I
> > am breaking postfix when adding the virtual-mailman entry to my
> >virtual_alias_maps line in main.cf
> >
> >This is obviously because at this point virtual-mailman.db does not exist,
> > but I don't see a step to create it.  Presumably I am missing the
> > bleeding obvious here?
>
> Did you run bin/genaliases?
>
> Have you set MTA = 'Postfix' in mm_cfg.py?
>
> Have you set POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS in mm_cfg.py?
>
> Are there any lists with host_name attribute matching a domain in
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS ?
>
> See http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node13.html
>
>
> Does data/virtual-mailman exist? If so and data/virtual-mailman.db does
> not exist, does POSTFIX_MAP_CMD in Defaults.py point to the right
> command file (if not, set it in mm_cfg.py.).

OK - my problem is obviously with something that feeds bin/genaliases.  I was 
interrupted and forgot that this step had problems.  When I run it I get:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "bin/genaliases", line 116, in ?
    main()
  File "bin/genaliases", line 106, in main
    MTA.create(mlist, nolock=True, quiet=quiet)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 230, in create
    if mlist and mlist.host_name in mm_cfg.POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS:
TypeError: 'in <string>' requires character as left operand

In mm_cfg.py:

DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'www.univexsystems.com'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'univexhosting.com'
MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = 'univexhosting.com'

univexhosting.com is in my postfix virtual db and is receiving mail happily.

Does that clarify anything?

TIA
Brian


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 31 00:28:58 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 15:28:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unwinding mailman's use of domains
In-Reply-To: <p0623094bbf8ae37e870b@[192.168.123.137]>
Message-ID: <PC174020051030152858012508889237@msapiro>

Heather Madrone wrote:
>
>I'd like to set up the new server so that I can access my Mailman
>pages in any of the following ways:
>
>	http://www.host.domain/mailman/listinfo
>	http://localhost/mailman/listinfo
>	http://192.168.123.100/mailman/listinfo
>	http://host.local/mailman/listinfo
>
>Is there a way to reset the DEFAULT_URL_HOST and 
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST to use host.domain without
>setting up virtual hosts?


Just by coincidence, I wrote FAQ 4.62
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.062.htp>
and it kind of addresses this.

What you need to do is pick one canonical url host and email host and
set DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST to those values (probably
'www.host.domain' and 'host.domain') and run fix_url to fix all your
lists.

Then you need to put a rewrite in your web server to rewrite all the
other host names to the canonical one (maybe only for mailman).

In Apache, this might look like:

RewriteEngine on
RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST}    !^www\.host\.domain [NC]
RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST}    !^$
RewriteRule ^/mailman(/.*)  http://www.host.domain/mailman$1   [L,R]

Of course the one big issue I see is the following. Can you access
www.host.domain from your side of the router? If not, then you have a
problem and probably the best you can do is set VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW
= Off if that is an option.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 31 01:05:17 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 16:05:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting started with Postfix virtual domains
In-Reply-To: <200510311026.46813.bmp@univexsystems.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510301605170796dfb74e2d@msapiro>

Brian Parish wrote:
>
>OK - my problem is obviously with something that feeds bin/genaliases.  I was 
>interrupted and forgot that this step had problems.  When I run it I get:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "bin/genaliases", line 116, in ?
>    main()
>  File "bin/genaliases", line 106, in main
>    MTA.create(mlist, nolock=True, quiet=quiet)
>  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 230, in create
>    if mlist and mlist.host_name in mm_cfg.POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS:
>TypeError: 'in <string>' requires character as left operand
>
>In mm_cfg.py:
>
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'www.univexsystems.com'
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'univexhosting.com'
>MTA = 'Postfix'
>POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = 'univexhosting.com'

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS is a list, not a string. You need

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['univexhosting.com']

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From horse at darkstar.uk.net  Mon Oct 31 01:12:33 2005
From: horse at darkstar.uk.net (Horse)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 00:12:33 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up an archive list - reprise!
In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20051028171922.02215528@tagline.cc>
References: <4362BD67.4090104@darkstar.uk.net>
	<6.2.5.6.2.20051028171922.02215528@tagline.cc>
Message-ID: <43656171.9090202@darkstar.uk.net>

Hi again

Apologies if this is another dumb question.
The fix below works fine if I set "General Options / Hide the sender of 
a message, replacing it with the list address" to 'yes' so that the list 
name appears in the 'From:' field, but if I set it to 'no' so that the 
'From:' field is the name of the member then again it gets held for 
moderator approval. Is there some way of getting mailman to pass posts 
through based on either the 'Reply To:' or the 'To' field.

Thanks in advance


Horse


Jared Rimer wrote:
> Horse,
>          Go to privacy, I don't remember if its sender or recipient 
> and turn off implicit destination.
> At 17:08 10/28/2005, you wrote:
> 
>>Hi All
>>
>>This is my first post to the list but I've been lurking for a while.
>>I'm running Mailman 2.1.5 on a debian sarge box with exim 4, apache 1.3
>>etc. at home. I also have an account with a hosting company which
>>provides mailman 2.1.5 lists and a fairly standard mailman control
>>interface.
>>My home setup runs fine and so far I've had no problems with the couple
>>of test lists set up on the host.
>>What I want to do is to set up a list with the host and forward emails
>>received there to a list on my home system purely to provide a backup
>>archive. For test purposes I'm only using my home setup at the moment.
>>
>>I've created a main list (main at domain) and an archive list
>>(archive at domain) and added archive at domain to main at domain member list.
>>
>>archive at domain has no members but in the privacy options /senderfilters
>>I've added main at domain to the "List of non-member addresses whose
>>postings should be automatically accepted" section.
>>
>>So far so good.
>>
>>I post to main at domain and the post goes out to all members including
>>archive at domain but there it gets held for approval by the list admin
>>(i.e. me). The reason given is:
>>
>>"Blind carbon copies or other implicit destinations are not allowed. Try
>>reposting your message by explicitly including the list address in the
>>To: or Cc: fields."
>>
>>I can pass it through to the list manually but would prefer it to go
>>through automatically as I intend to do this several lists.
>>Does anyone have any ideas as to how I can do this. I have access to the
>>python source on my machine so I can modify if need be.
>>
>>Apologies if the detail above is a bit excessive.
>>
>>Cheers
>>
>>
>>Horse
>>------------------------------------------------------
>>Mailman-Users mailing list
>>Mailman-Users at python.org
>>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>>Unsubscribe: 
>>http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jrimer%40tagline.cc
>>
>>Security Policy: 
>>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 
> 
> Jared Rimer
> Business website: http://www.superior-software.com/support
> Personal Website: http://www.asmodean.net/jrimer
> Music Education Network for the Visually Impaired  http://menvi.org a 
> service done through Superior Software level one
> WBBY Internet Radio and All In Play team up.  Learn more 
> http://www.menvi.org/allinplay
> WBBY Internet Radio: www.wbby.us 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/horse%40darkstar.uk.net
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 


From heather at madrone.com  Mon Oct 31 00:26:52 2005
From: heather at madrone.com (Heather Madrone)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 16:26:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unwinding mailman's use of domains
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051030152858012508889237@msapiro>
References: <PC174020051030152858012508889237@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p0623094dbf8afcab6d8a@[192.168.123.137]>

At 3:28 PM -0800 10/30/05, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>Heather Madrone wrote:
> >Is there a way to reset the DEFAULT_URL_HOST and
>>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST to use host.domain without
> >setting up virtual hosts?
>
>What you need to do is pick one canonical url host and email host and
>set DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST to those values (probably
>'www.host.domain' and 'host.domain') and run fix_url to fix all your
>lists.

Thanks.  I've already set DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST
(without add_virtualhost) hoping that would be enough.

>Then you need to put a rewrite in your web server to rewrite all the
>other host names to the canonical one (maybe only for mailman).
>
>In Apache, this might look like:
>
>RewriteEngine on
>RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST}    !^www\.host\.domain [NC]
>RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST}    !^$
>RewriteRule ^/mailman(/.*)  http://www.host.domain/mailman$1   [L,R]

It doesn't look like this is necessary.

>Of course the one big issue I see is the following. Can you access
>www.host.domain from your side of the router?

Absolutely.  On the 10.2.8 server, I have a line in /etc/hosts that looks like this:

127.0.0.1       localhost  domain.com   xxx.local   xxx.domain.com  lists.domain.com   www.domain.com

Which does a good job of telling the Mac which names it ought to answer to.
Other machines on the local network are also handled through /etc/hosts,
and they also have other local machines in their /etc/hosts.  It's all old-
fashioned and Unix-y.  If I had a bigger network, I'd do it on a local
name server.

It also means that I can't tell when my Mailman pages have gone AWOL to
the rest of the world.  My machine always knows where they are, even if
the domain MX entries have gone missing.

-- 
Thank you,

Heather Madrone <heather at madrone.com>
http://www.madrone.com


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 31 03:08:21 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 18:08:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up an archive list - reprise!
In-Reply-To: <43656171.9090202@darkstar.uk.net>
Message-ID: <PC174020051030180821017177bda780@msapiro>

Horse wrote:
>
>Apologies if this is another dumb question.
>The fix below works fine if I set "General Options / Hide the sender of 
>a message, replacing it with the list address" to 'yes' so that the list 
>name appears in the 'From:' field, but if I set it to 'no' so that the 
>'From:' field is the name of the member then again it gets held for 
>moderator approval. Is there some way of getting mailman to pass posts 
>through based on either the 'Reply To:' or the 'To' field.


You can't use the To:

If you have a fixed Reply-To: on messages from the main list, you
should be able to make that address a member of the archive list with
delivery disabled and have posts from the main list accepted by the
archive list.

There are at least two other things that can be done in your particular
case, i.e. main list on a host service, archive list on your own box.

1) you can set USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = Yes on the archive box. The
envelope sender of the posts to be archived will be
main-bounces at domain. You can make that address a list member with
delivery disabled and the posts should be accepted. Actually, this
shouldn't even be necessary as long as SENDER_HEADERS, which is by
default, ('from', None, 'reply-to', 'sender') is not changed. The
default setting of SENDER_HEADERS means that a post should be accepted
as long as one of From:, envelope sender, Reply-To: or Sender: is a
list member.


2) you can open the archive list to anyone by setting Privacy
options...->Sender filters->generic_nonmember_action to Accept. I
don't actually suggest this as it opens the archive to spam.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From horse at darkstar.uk.net  Mon Oct 31 03:34:20 2005
From: horse at darkstar.uk.net (Horse)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 02:34:20 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up an archive list - reprise!
In-Reply-To: <PC174020051030180821017177bda780@msapiro>
References: <PC174020051030180821017177bda780@msapiro>
Message-ID: <436582AC.4070506@darkstar.uk.net>

Cheers Mark

Initial test with suggestion 1 is looking good.
I think it may be that a few more tweaks and it'll be there.

Many thanks


Horse



Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Horse wrote:
> 
>>Apologies if this is another dumb question.
>>The fix below works fine if I set "General Options / Hide the sender of 
>>a message, replacing it with the list address" to 'yes' so that the list 
>>name appears in the 'From:' field, but if I set it to 'no' so that the 
>>'From:' field is the name of the member then again it gets held for 
>>moderator approval. Is there some way of getting mailman to pass posts 
>>through based on either the 'Reply To:' or the 'To' field.
> 
> 
> 
> You can't use the To:
> 
> If you have a fixed Reply-To: on messages from the main list, you
> should be able to make that address a member of the archive list with
> delivery disabled and have posts from the main list accepted by the
> archive list.
> 
> There are at least two other things that can be done in your particular
> case, i.e. main list on a host service, archive list on your own box.
> 
> 1) you can set USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = Yes on the archive box. The
> envelope sender of the posts to be archived will be
> main-bounces at domain. You can make that address a list member with
> delivery disabled and the posts should be accepted. Actually, this
> shouldn't even be necessary as long as SENDER_HEADERS, which is by
> default, ('from', None, 'reply-to', 'sender') is not changed. The
> default setting of SENDER_HEADERS means that a post should be accepted
> as long as one of From:, envelope sender, Reply-To: or Sender: is a
> list member.
> 
> 
> 2) you can open the archive list to anyone by setting Privacy
> options...->Sender filters->generic_nonmember_action to Accept. I
> don't actually suggest this as it opens the archive to spam.
> 


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 31 03:40:45 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 18:40:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unwinding mailman's use of domains
In-Reply-To: <p0623094dbf8afcab6d8a@[192.168.123.137]>
Message-ID: <PC17402005103018404509062d8958d7@msapiro>

Heather Madrone wrote:

>At 3:28 PM -0800 10/30/05, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>Heather Madrone wrote:
>>
>>What you need to do is pick one canonical url host and email host and
>>set DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST to those values (probably
>>'www.host.domain' and 'host.domain') and run fix_url to fix all your
>>lists.
>
>Thanks.  I've already set DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST
>(without add_virtualhost) hoping that would be enough.

Perhaps I misunderstood your question. You ALWAYS have a VIRTUAL_HOSTS
dictionary, even if it only has one entry. It is initialized in
Defaults.py with the Defaults.py values of DEFAULT_URL_HOST and
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST. If you change DEFAULT_URL_HOST and/or
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST in mm_cfg.py, then you should follow that with

VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

as mentioned in FAQ 4.29. You want to do this even if you have

VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off


>>Then you need to put a rewrite in your web server to rewrite all the
>>other host names to the canonical one (maybe only for mailman).
>>
>>In Apache, this might look like:
>>
>>RewriteEngine on
>>RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST}    !^www\.host\.domain [NC]
>>RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST}    !^$
>>RewriteRule ^/mailman(/.*)  http://www.host.domain/mailman$1   [L,R]
>
>It doesn't look like this is necessary.

It's not if you have

VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off

but you need to insure that DEFAULT_URL_HOST is the externally
accessable one.

Also, there is an issue with VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off that can cause
the DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST to be used in some cases where DEFAULT_URL_HOST
should be used. See
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1275856&group_id=103&atid=100103.
This can cause the web_page_url attribute of lists created via the web
to use DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST instead of DEFAULT_URL_HOST.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From zeus at procapperschallenge.com  Mon Oct 31 04:12:02 2005
From: zeus at procapperschallenge.com (zeus at procapperschallenge.com)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 21:12:02 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <DEENICAJDFFOKEPANBLKEEAFCPAA.zeus@procapperschallenge.com>
Message-ID: <DEENICAJDFFOKEPANBLKIEAHCPAA.zeus@procapperschallenge.com>


Sorry, didnt realize I had missed at the top

Z

Oct 29 18:07:35 2005 admin(7105):
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(7105): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.6 -----]
admin(7105): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(7105): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(7105):   File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/scripts/driver",
line 101, in run_main
admin(7105):     main()
admin(7105):   File
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 198, in main
admin(7105):     mlist.Save()
admin(7105):   File
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 557, in Save
admin(7105):     self.__save(dict)
admin(7105):   File
"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 514, in
__save
admin(7105):     cPickle.dump(dict, fp, 1)
admin(7105): MemoryError


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 12:37 AM
To: zeus at procapperschallenge.com; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] MemoryError


<zeus at procapperschallenge.com> wrote:
>
>I am getting the following error with mailman 2.1.6, red-hat. It started to
>occur while a customer was importing a new set of email adresss into their
>mailinglist. They can login to the webadmin, but when they click on
>"Membership" they get the "Weve Hit A Bug" message. This is what I see in
>the error.log
>
>
>I have searched around for what it could be, but cant find anything on this
>specific problem
>
>admin(7105): MemoryError
>admin(7105): [----- Python Information -----]
>admin(7105): sys.version     =   2.2.3 (#1, Feb  2 2005, 12:20:51)
>[GCC 3.2.3 20030502 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.3-49)]
<snip>


And what immediately precedes this in the log. The part that begins:

mmm dd hh:mm:ss yyyy admin(pid):
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(pid): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.6 -----]
admin(pid): [----- Traceback ------]

followed by the traceback.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan







From heather at madrone.com  Mon Oct 31 04:50:07 2005
From: heather at madrone.com (Heather Madrone)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 19:50:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unwinding mailman's use of domains
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005103018404509062d8958d7@msapiro>
References: <PC17402005103018404509062d8958d7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06230900bf8b3abd3eeb@[192.168.123.137]>

At 6:40 PM -0800 10/30/05, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>Heather Madrone wrote:
> >At 3:28 PM -0800 10/30/05, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >>What you need to do is pick one canonical url host and email host and
>>>set DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST to those values (probably
>>>'www.host.domain' and 'host.domain') and run fix_url to fix all your
>>>lists.
>>
>>Thanks.  I've already set DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST
>>(without add_virtualhost) hoping that would be enough.
>
>Perhaps I misunderstood your question. You ALWAYS have a VIRTUAL_HOSTS
>dictionary, even if it only has one entry. It is initialized in
>Defaults.py with the Defaults.py values of DEFAULT_URL_HOST and
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST. If you change DEFAULT_URL_HOST and/or
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST in mm_cfg.py, then you should follow that with
>
>VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

Okay.  That's what I was doing on my 10.2.8 machine.

I needed to re-run configure on the 10.4.2 machine, so I changed it at that
point for the new installation.  That's probably why it's working even though
I didn't do add_virtualhost.

>as mentioned in FAQ 4.29. You want to do this even if you have
>
>VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off

VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW is On, I didn't put the magic in httpd.conf,
and it's all working just the way I want it to work.  My guess is that someone
at Apple put some magic in Tiger that wasn't present in Jaguar, and that
Apache on Macs now handles this in its default configuration.

Anyway, everything seems to be working beautifully.  It's been almost too easy
this time around.

Thanks for your help.

-- 
Heather Madrone <heather at madrone.com>
The Home-Ed List:  http://www.madrone.com/Home-ed/helist.html

You can lead a child to learning, but you can't make her think.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 31 05:21:35 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 20:21:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unwinding mailman's use of domains
In-Reply-To: <p06230900bf8b3abd3eeb@[192.168.123.137]>
Message-ID: <PC17402005103020213505462fae5d45@msapiro>

Heather Madrone wrote:
>
>I needed to re-run configure on the 10.4.2 machine, so I changed it at that
>point for the new installation.  That's probably why it's working even though
>I didn't do add_virtualhost.


That's probably correct.


>>as mentioned in FAQ 4.29. You want to do this even if you have
>>
>>VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off
>
>VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW is On, I didn't put the magic in httpd.conf,
>and it's all working just the way I want it to work.  My guess is that someone
>at Apple put some magic in Tiger that wasn't present in Jaguar, and that
>Apache on Macs now handles this in its default configuration.


Possibly. Here are the questions.

When you visit the web interface using some 'other' host, e.g.,
http://localhost/mailman/listinfo, is that what appears in the address
bar of the browser with the resulting page or is it
http://www.host.domain/mailman/listinfo? If the latter, then Apache is
rewriting it somehow. If the address bar still shows
http://localhost/mailman/listinfo, do your public lists show on that
page? If so then Apache is setting HTTP_HOST to 'www.host.domain' in
the environment even though you are accessing 'localhost' or HTTP_HOST
is undefined in the environment and SERVER_NAME is 'www.host.domain'.

If your public lists do not appear on the listinfo overview when
accessed by an 'other' host, you also won't be able to create a list
from the web if you access the create page from this host.

>Anyway, everything seems to be working beautifully.  It's been almost too easy
>this time around.

That's great!

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From heather at madrone.com  Mon Oct 31 07:19:14 2005
From: heather at madrone.com (Heather Madrone)
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 22:19:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unwinding mailman's use of domains
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005103020213505462fae5d45@msapiro>
References: <PC17402005103020213505462fae5d45@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06230903bf8b6336ba52@[10.0.1.2]>

At 8:21 PM -0800 10/30/05, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW is On, I didn't put the magic in httpd.conf,
>>and it's all working just the way I want it to work.  My guess is that someone
>>at Apple put some magic in Tiger that wasn't present in Jaguar, and that
>>Apache on Macs now handles this in its default configuration.
>
>Possibly.

Another possibility (given that I know very little about Mailman's innards)
is that configuring the host name at make time causes a different behavior
than configuring it mm_cfg.py.  I don't know whether that makes sense,
but it is one of the things that I did differently this time around.

(So much else is different -- different versions of Python, Mailman, Apache,
Postfix instead of exim for the MTA, the operating system, the hardware --
that it might be difficult to figure out exactly what is causing the improved
behavior.)

>When you visit the web interface using some 'other' host, e.g.,
>http://localhost/mailman/listinfo, is that what appears in the address
>bar of the browser with the resulting page or is it
>http://www.host.domain/mailman/listinfo? If the latter, then Apache is
>rewriting it somehow.

All my lists show on all hosts (this did not happen in my previous Mailman
installation), and I can access the list and administrative pages of all lists
using each host address.  I do have to re-supply the password when I use
a host address that I haven't used since starting the latest browser session.
That's probably a cookie-naming issue.

The main reason I wanted to be able to access the administrative interface
using a different hostname was so I could work on the new system while the
old www.domain.com server was still live.  Having an alternate address
for each system makes the transition much simpler.

-- 
Heather Madrone <heather at madrone.com>
The Home-Ed List:  http://www.madrone.com/Home-ed/helist.html

You can lead a child to learning, but you can't make her think.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Oct 31 09:18:08 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:18:08 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <DEENICAJDFFOKEPANBLKIEAHCPAA.zeus@procapperschallenge.com>
References: <DEENICAJDFFOKEPANBLKIEAHCPAA.zeus@procapperschallenge.com>
Message-ID: <p06200734bf8b839a6165@[10.0.1.210]>

At 9:12 PM -0600 2005-10-30, <zeus at procapperschallenge.com> wrote:

>  admin(7105):   File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/scripts/driver",
>  line 101, in run_main

	Please see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From pedro at mat.uc.pt  Mon Oct 31 12:13:49 2005
From: pedro at mat.uc.pt (Pedro Quaresma)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 11:13:49 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Mailman archives
Message-ID: <200510311113.49385.pedro@mat.uc.pt>

Hi

I use the Mailman program to run 5 mailing lists, great program to do
it, but now (after an upgrade I think) the archives are no longer
functioning:

  Not Found

  The requested URL /pipermail/listacac/ was not found on this server.


Must I create the pipermail account?

I have Mailman 2.1.5 in a Debian box (Linux gentzen 2.6.7 #2 SMP Mon
Jul 19 16:03:29 WEST 2004 i686 GNU/Linux).

Thanks.

--
    At\'e breve

Professor Auxiliar Pedro Quaresma
Departamento de Matem\'atica
Faculdade de Ci\^encias e Tecnologia
Universidade de Coimbra
P-3001-454 COIMBRA, PORTUGAL
correio-e: pedro at mat.uc.pt
p\'agina: http://www.mat.uc.pt/~pedro/
telef: +351 239 791 181; fax: +351 239 832 568



From bmp at univexsystems.com  Mon Oct 31 13:40:59 2005
From: bmp at univexsystems.com (Brian Parish)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 23:40:59 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] We're sorry, we hit a bug! but no logs???
Message-ID: <200510312340.59325.bmp@univexsystems.com>

Thought I had cracked it.  Click on Create to make my first list and I get:

Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of 
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the 
webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. 

OK fine, but there are no files in $prefix/logs and nothing in the system log.

Darkness is closing in!

Thanks for any guidance as always.

Brian


From zeus at procapperschallenge.com  Mon Oct 31 13:54:35 2005
From: zeus at procapperschallenge.com (zeus at procapperschallenge.com)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 06:54:35 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MemoryError
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005103019135200463b5a3d62@msapiro>
Message-ID: <DEENICAJDFFOKEPANBLKGEAMCPAA.zeus@procapperschallenge.com>


Mark,
	Here is your reply that you wanted bounced to the list.
I did a little more digging with the customer and found out that he
was trying to import 250,000 new emails to the list he created so your
answer might have hit the nail on the head.

Brad
	Thanks for your reply, I will make sure to check check with the
CPanel folks as well when I run into issues.

Thanks!

Zeus


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 9:14 PM
To: zeus at procapperschallenge.com
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] MemoryError


<zeus at procapperschallenge.com> wrote:

>Sorry, didnt realize I had missed that
>
>Oct 29 18:07:35 2005 admin(7105):
>@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>admin(7105): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.6 -----]
>admin(7105): [----- Traceback ------]
>admin(7105): Traceback (most recent call last):
>admin(7105):   File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/scripts/driver",
>line 101, in run_main
>admin(7105):     main()
>admin(7105):   File
>"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 198, in
main
>admin(7105):     mlist.Save()
>admin(7105):   File
>"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 557, in Save
>admin(7105):     self.__save(dict)
>admin(7105):   File
>"/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 514, in
>__save
>admin(7105):     cPickle.dump(dict, fp, 1)
>admin(7105): MemoryError


I can't tell you a whole lot. First, please see
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp

That said, the error occurs in saving the mail list object. This code
is exercised continuously for all lists, so the error must have
somethig to do with this list in particular.

A MemoryError exception is a built-in Python exception "Raised when an
operation runs out of memory but the situation may still be rescued
(by deleting some objects)."

How many members does this list have? According to the FAQ, the largest
list reported to date has 147,000 members and presumably works.
Possibly something in the cPanel implementation or your particular
installation limits this to a greater degree.

Possibly, there's something amis in the list's config.pck file, but
short of dumping it with bin/dumpdb or maybe listing members with
bin/list_members and examining those outputs for 'garbled data', I
wouldn't know what to look for.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mark Sapiro
>Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 12:37 AM
>To: zeus at procapperschallenge.com; mailman-users at python.org
>Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] MemoryError
>
>
><zeus at procapperschallenge.com> wrote:
>>
>>I am getting the following error with mailman 2.1.6, red-hat. It started
to
>>occur while a customer was importing a new set of email adresss into their
>>mailinglist. They can login to the webadmin, but when they click on
>>"Membership" they get the "Weve Hit A Bug" message. This is what I see in
>>the error.log
>>
>>
>>I have searched around for what it could be, but cant find anything on
this
>>specific problem
>>
>>admin(7105): MemoryError
>>admin(7105): [----- Python Information -----]
>>admin(7105): sys.version     =   2.2.3 (#1, Feb  2 2005, 12:20:51)
>>[GCC 3.2.3 20030502 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.3-49)]
><snip>
>
>
>And what immediately precedes this in the log. The part that begins:
>
>mmm dd hh:mm:ss yyyy admin(pid):
>@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>admin(pid): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.6 -----]
>admin(pid): [----- Traceback ------]
>
>followed by the traceback.
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
>
>
>







From antoine at starinux.org  Mon Oct 31 15:20:53 2005
From: antoine at starinux.org (antoine)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 15:20:53 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] We're sorry, we hit a bug! but no logs???
References: <200510312340.59325.bmp@univexsystems.com>
Message-ID: <001701c5de26$4d6e87a0$0300a8c0@aw2>

> Thought I had cracked it.  Click on Create to make my first list and I
get:
>  Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5
*  *  *
I use 2.1.5 mailman version.
This version has bugs ?
better to use 2.1.6 ?

Thanks !

antoine



From dpifer at odu.edu  Mon Oct 31 15:10:02 2005
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 09:10:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trimming archives
Message-ID: <1130767802.23603.26.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

Hello,

       In reviewing posts to this mailing list, I found that it is not
possible to prune the archives. However, we will need to do something
shortly because the filesystem that we have mailman on is now 84% full,
mostly due to the growing archives. We are using LVM under Linux and I
can increase the space but I would like to see if we can compress any
older files in the archive directory first. For instance, we have one
mbox, ./archives/private/opr.mbox/opr.mbox that is 700MB is growing
everyday. It is our operators list. Can I gzip it and create a new
opr.mbox by touching it? Also, there are some text files
./archives/private/opr/2005-October.txt that is 500+ MB. Can .txt files
compressed and still useable by the system? Is anybody doing anything to
archive older, unused mailman archives to tape? We use Tivoli (TSM) here
and wanted to know if anybody has something automated for this.

Darren
ODU





From antoine at starinux.org  Mon Oct 31 15:32:30 2005
From: antoine at starinux.org (antoine)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 15:32:30 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] email from Mailman (cron)l
References: <PC17402005103008260601876de0a1c1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <002301c5de27$ed100cb0$0300a8c0@aw2>

> >IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/var/lib/mailman/locks/gate_news.lock.aw.4567.0'
>  It means the gate_news cron doesn't have permission to create a lock
> file.
>  It appears that the crontab belongs to you (antoine). It needs to be
> installed as 'mailman' so it runs as group 'mailman'.
**********
ok !

But how to declare the "cron" job for "mailman" user ?

I type : # cron crontab.in

Many thanks.

antoine



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 31 15:55:02 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 06:55:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unwinding mailman's use of domains
In-Reply-To: <p06230903bf8b6336ba52@[10.0.1.2]>
Message-ID: <PC17402005103106550207812eb6c34f@msapiro>

Heather Madrone wrote:
>
>Another possibility (given that I know very little about Mailman's innards)
>is that configuring the host name at make time causes a different behavior
>than configuring it mm_cfg.py.  I don't know whether that makes sense,
>but it is one of the things that I did differently this time around.


Providing the correct names to configure causes the correct values to
be assigned to DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and the
VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary (add_virtualhost) in Defaults.py so that none
of these actually need to be mentioned in mm_cfg.py because they are
already correct. That's all it does.

>(So much else is different -- different versions of Python, Mailman, Apache,
>Postfix instead of exim for the MTA, the operating system, the hardware --
>that it might be difficult to figure out exactly what is causing the improved
>behavior.)
>
>>When you visit the web interface using some 'other' host, e.g.,
>>http://localhost/mailman/listinfo, is that what appears in the address
>>bar of the browser with the resulting page or is it
>>http://www.host.domain/mailman/listinfo? If the latter, then Apache is
>>rewriting it somehow.
>
>All my lists show on all hosts (this did not happen in my previous Mailman
>installation),


Since VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW has the default On setting, I think this
has to be Apache providing a fixed host name. For example, there might
be a SetEnv or PassEnv in httpd.conf to set HTTP_HOST to
www.host.domain in all cases.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 31 16:05:22 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 07:05:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Mailman archives
In-Reply-To: <200510311113.49385.pedro@mat.uc.pt>
Message-ID: <PC17402005103107052203286214671e@msapiro>

Pedro Quaresma wrote:
>
>I use the Mailman program to run 5 mailing lists, great program to do
>it, but now (after an upgrade I think) the archives are no longer
>functioning:
>
>  Not Found
>
>  The requested URL /pipermail/listacac/ was not found on this server.
>
>
>Must I create the pipermail account?


This is normally handled in Apache with something like

Alias /pipermail/ /var/mailman/archives/public/

in the appropriate place in httpd.conf. Also, the web server must
follow symlinks in the /var/mailman/archives/public/ directory. (The
actual path may be different in your case.)

See http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node10.html.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Oct 31 14:51:04 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 15:51:04 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] email from Mailman (cron)l
In-Reply-To: <002301c5de27$ed100cb0$0300a8c0@aw2>
References: <PC17402005103008260601876de0a1c1@msapiro>
	<002301c5de27$ed100cb0$0300a8c0@aw2>
Message-ID: <p06200738bf8bd17fa343@[10.0.1.210]>

At 3:32 PM +0100 2005-10-31, antoine wrote:

>  But how to declare the "cron" job for "mailman" user ?

	That's going to be dependant on your OS.  I recommend you read 
the documentation for your OS, consult their FAQs, post any remaining 
questions to their mailing lists, etc....

	There's not likely to be much that we can do to help you, since 
this matter is under the control of your OS, and not Mailman.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Oct 31 14:52:18 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 15:52:18 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] We're sorry, we hit a bug! but no logs???
In-Reply-To: <001701c5de26$4d6e87a0$0300a8c0@aw2>
References: <200510312340.59325.bmp@univexsystems.com>
	<001701c5de26$4d6e87a0$0300a8c0@aw2>
Message-ID: <p06200739bf8bd1d1b670@[10.0.1.210]>

At 3:20 PM +0100 2005-10-31, antoine wrote:

>  I use 2.1.5 mailman version.
>  This version has bugs ?
>  better to use 2.1.6 ?

	There are some significant improvements with 2.1.6, yes. 
However, plenty of people are continuing to use 2.1.5 without major 
problems.  You need to decide if you're facing certain problems or 
issues that you believe will be likely to be resolved by upgrading to 
2.1.6.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Oct 31 15:04:41 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 16:04:41 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trimming archives
In-Reply-To: <1130767802.23603.26.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
References: <1130767802.23603.26.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <p0620073abf8bd23ecff2@[10.0.1.210]>

At 9:10 AM -0500 2005-10-31, Darren G Pifer wrote:

>         In reviewing posts to this mailing list, I found that it is not
>  possible to prune the archives.

	Not automatically, no.

>                                   However, we will need to do something
>  shortly because the filesystem that we have mailman on is now 84% full,
>  mostly due to the growing archives. We are using LVM under Linux and I
>  can increase the space but I would like to see if we can compress any
>  older files in the archive directory first.

	There are cron jobs for Mailman that are detailed in the 
documentation which will periodically compress the old web-accessible 
text format archives, yes.  The HTML-format web archives themselves 
cannot be compressed, however.  And the original 7th edition 
mbox-format mailbox (from which all the public archives are derived) 
cannot be compressed as-is.

	So, there's a limit to the amount of space that you would be able 
to recover.  Moreover, your choices are limited in terms of the 
compression algorithms you can choose, at least without making any 
modifications to the Mailman source code -- for the standard cron 
jobs, gzip is used and not bzip2.

>                                               For instance, we have one
>  mbox, ./archives/private/opr.mbox/opr.mbox that is 700MB is growing
>  everyday. It is our operators list. Can I gzip it and create a new
>  opr.mbox by touching it?

	This is the unprocessed "source" archive mailbox, from which all 
public archives are generated.  This is a record of exactly what came 
in and in what order.

	I would be inclined to rename it first, using an extension based 
on the date when the archive was to be compressed, then create the 
new one with the same ownership and permissions.  You could then 
compress the old file at your leisure.

	Of course, if you ever have to rebuild your public archives, 
you'll need to make sure that you process the messages in the oldest 
compressed archive first, otherwise all the message numbers will get 
out-of-whack.

>                            Also, there are some text files
>  ./archives/private/opr/2005-October.txt that is 500+ MB.

	Those are the processed text-format web-accessible archives which 
were created based on the source archive mailbox contents.  These are 
the archives which are typically compressed in the standard cron jobs.

>                                                            Can .txt files
>  compressed and still useable by the system?

	Mailman doesn't make any attempt to use these files.  These files 
are produced by Mailman for use by humans.  Once they've been 
compressed, it's fine to leave them in compressed format, since they 
would only be downloaded by people accessing the archive system and 
who wish to see text-format archives as opposed to the HTML-format 
archives.

>                                              Is anybody doing anything to
>  archive older, unused mailman archives to tape? We use Tivoli (TSM) here
>  and wanted to know if anybody has something automated for this.

	There are no standard automated procedures I know of to split and 
compress old 7th edition mbox-format source archives.  They are 
always assumed to be in pure 7th edition mbox text format, and if you 
want to split and compress them you will need to come up with your 
own procedures for doing that.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 31 16:11:09 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 07:11:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] We're sorry, we hit a bug! but no logs???
In-Reply-To: <200510312340.59325.bmp@univexsystems.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020051031071109071862146897@msapiro>

Brian Parish wrote:

>Thought I had cracked it.  Click on Create to make my first list and I get:
>
>Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5
>
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
>Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of 
>traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the 
>webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. 
>
>OK fine, but there are no files in $prefix/logs and nothing in the system log.

By default, they're in $var_prefix/logs if that makes a difference.

Look in mm_cfg.py for an assignment to LOG_DIR. If there isn't one,
look in Defaults.py in case someone changed it there.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sasa at stupar.homelinux.net  Mon Oct 31 16:13:51 2005
From: sasa at stupar.homelinux.net (Sasa Stupar)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 16:13:51 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] We're sorry, we hit a bug! but no logs???
In-Reply-To: <001701c5de26$4d6e87a0$0300a8c0@aw2>
References: <200510312340.59325.bmp@univexsystems.com>
	<001701c5de26$4d6e87a0$0300a8c0@aw2>
Message-ID: <1A9C0D0D80F143520BA6B22A@[192.168.10.249]>



--On 31. oktober 2005 15:20 +0100 antoine <antoine at starinux.org> wrote:

>> Thought I had cracked it.  Click on Create to make my first list and I
> get:
>>  Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5
> *  *  *
> I use 2.1.5 mailman version.
> This version has bugs ?
> better to use 2.1.6 ?
>
> Thanks !
>
> antoine
>


I had the same error on my 2.1.6 on FreeBSD 5.4. The solution was to 
deinstall it and also delete directory mailman as well and the install new 
fresh copy.
Why this happened I still don't know. But after that I haven't had any 
problems.

Sasa
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From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 31 16:40:40 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 07:40:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trimming archives
In-Reply-To: <1130767802.23603.26.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402005103107404005468e03d22a@msapiro>

Darren G Pifer wrote:
>
>       In reviewing posts to this mailing list, I found that it is not
>possible to prune the archives.


I don't know what gave you that idea. Perhaps you saw my post at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-October/047180.html,
but that only said "There is no option within Mailman to prune old
messages from the archives." It meant an automatic process. There are
lots of ways to do it manually.


>However, we will need to do something
>shortly because the filesystem that we have mailman on is now 84% full,
>mostly due to the growing archives. We are using LVM under Linux and I
>can increase the space but I would like to see if we can compress any
>older files in the archive directory first. For instance, we have one
>mbox, ./archives/private/opr.mbox/opr.mbox that is 700MB is growing
>everyday. It is our operators list. Can I gzip it and create a new
>opr.mbox by touching it?


You can gzip it and Mailman will create a new one automatically for the
next message.

If you don't need the old archives online, you can do much more, but
there is a CAVEAT which may or may not be important. If you do the
following, the URLs of the remaining individual archive messages will
change and any saved links to these messages will break or return the
wrong message.

Here's the process.

Back up archives/private/opr.mbox/opr.mbox off line. Edit the file and
delete all but the recent entries that you want to keep. Then do

bin/arch --wipe opr

This will rebuild the entire archive with only the recent messages.

If preserving the message numbers and recent URLs is important, you
have a couple of choices. Instead of deleting the old messages from
the .mbox, you could edit them to replace the message body with
something like "Message archived off line." and then rebuild. Or you
could just gzip or backup off line the .mbox and let Mailman create a
new one starting with the next message. This way, the HTML archive
will still be complete, but if you ever need to rebuild it, you have a
more complex process. You will have to recreate the full .mbox at
least temporarily and rebuild the archive from that or you can do it
in pieces like

bin/arch --wipe opr archived_opr.mbox
bin/arch opr

which recreates the archive with the old messages and then adds the
current messages.


Also see Brad's reply in this thread
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-October/047440.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 31 16:42:31 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 07:42:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] email from Mailman (cron)l
In-Reply-To: <002301c5de27$ed100cb0$0300a8c0@aw2>
Message-ID: <PC17402005103107423106408e03d27f@msapiro>

antoine wrote:
>
>But how to declare the "cron" job for "mailman" user ?
>
>I type : # cron crontab.in

First do

su mailman

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Oct 31 17:02:09 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 08:02:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] email from Mailman (cron)l
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005103107423106408e03d27f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1740200510310802090796cbaa1f05@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>antoine wrote:
>>
>>But how to declare the "cron" job for "mailman" user ?
>>
>>I type : # cron crontab.in
>
>First do
>
>su mailman

The above reply was a bit hasty. It may work in your case, but normally
'cron' would start the cron daemon and wouldn't take an argument.
Normally the cron daemon is started by init at startup time.

Maybe you meant you typed "crontab crontab.in" or maybe cron is an
alias for crontab in your case.

Installing a crontab for the mailman user can be done by root with

crontab -u mailman crontab.in

or if you can log in as mailman, you can just do

crontab path/to/crontab.in

The following:

su mailman
crontab crontab.in

is not recommended. See 'man crontab'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From k.oliver at t-online.de  Mon Oct 31 19:02:45 2005
From: k.oliver at t-online.de (Oliver =?iso-8859-1?q?K=F6nig?=)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 19:02:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List: Only administrator / owner of list
	shall be allowed to post
Message-ID: <200510311902.45957.k.oliver@t-online.de>

Hello,
I want to set up a mailing list, where only the administrator / owner of list
shall be allowed to post messages to the list. How do I configure this?

Oliver K?nig


From cpz at tuunq.com  Mon Oct 31 19:05:57 2005
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:05:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List: Only administrator / owner of
 list shall be allowed to post
In-Reply-To: <200510311902.45957.k.oliver@t-online.de> from "Oliver [K_nig]"
	at "Oct 31, 2005 07:02:45 pm"
Message-ID: <20051031180557.49DE27AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Oliver [K_nig] wrote:

> Hello,
> I want to set up a mailing list, where only the administrator / owner of list
> shall be allowed to post messages to the list. How do I configure this?

please check the FAQ, url is below. (look for 'announce only' or some such)

z!

> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/cpz%40tuunq.com
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 



From cad at cox.net  Mon Oct 31 19:10:52 2005
From: cad at cox.net (C Doukas)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 12:10:52 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List: Only administrator / owner of
	list shall be allowed to post
In-Reply-To: <20051031180557.49DE27AE@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <EEEPJCKFBAHPDDEJLNLNEENKCAAA.cad@cox.net>

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+cad=cox.net at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+cad=cox.net at python.org]On Behalf Of Carl
Zwanzig
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 12:06 PM
To: Oliver [K_nig]
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List: Only administrator / owner of
list shall be allowed to post


In a flurry of recycled electrons, Oliver [K_nig] wrote:

> Hello,
> I want to set up a mailing list, where only the administrator / owner of
list
> shall be allowed to post messages to the list. How do I configure this?

please check the FAQ, url is below. (look for 'announce only' or some such)

z!

> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/cpz%40tuunq.com
>
> Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/cad%40cox.net

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From popakr at gmail.com  Mon Oct 31 19:41:37 2005
From: popakr at gmail.com (Popak Roshan)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 10:41:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up mailman
Message-ID: <14f036c80510311041g7fa9abb4p5fa4201495d06579@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I have installed the mailma successfully, In our school we use mailing
list to inform thousands of students about the campus events, we run
tiger (mac os X server) and as I look at the old configuration in our
old servers (10.3), I can see the previous admin that he placed the
list folder (contains text files with email address) and list_config
folder (contains config files associate with those lists) residing in
our file server(for back up purpose). I am not sure how this process
works and if you can help me to setup mailman that my lists and
config_lists are residing in another server, that would be great.

thanks

-Popak


From bernd at firmix.at  Mon Oct 31 23:45:09 2005
From: bernd at firmix.at (Bernd Petrovitsch)
Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 23:45:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ISO-8859-1/Latin1 vs UTF-8
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200510241405230609a1d21f18@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200510241405230609a1d21f18@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1130798709.3451.31.camel@gimli.at.home>

On Mon, 2005-10-24 at 14:05 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Bernd Petrovitsch wrote:
> >I actually reported a bug (though it may not sound so): I enter
> >(apparently) UTF-8 text (with Firefox it that is important) and it comes
> >back disguised (and as part of) ISO-8859-1 text.
> >The question is: Which part is doing something wrong and how to fix it?
> 
> What happens here is that Mailman creates the web page with the META
> tag in the header
> 
> <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=xxxx">
> 
> where xxxx is the encoding of the language of the list (default
> iso-8859-1 for German), but the web server sends its own http
> Content-Type: header specifying charset=utf-8. For reasons I don't
> understand, the HTML standard says the server provided Content-Type:
> charset takes priority over that specified by an HTML META tag.

I don't understand it either but it is so. BTW I usually disable the
feature in the webserver config.

> Thus your browser sets it's encoding as utf-8, but mailman thinks what
> it gets back is iso-8859-1 and thus garbles the multibyte unicode
> sequences.
> 
> It can be fixed by setting the 'German' character set to utf-8 and
> recoding the German language templates, messages and list archives in
> utf-8 as discussed in the archive threads I mentioned previously.

Done. I have now a German and an English template both specifying UTF-8
as charset *and* UTF-8 text in there (especially in the German one).
But the crazy thing ist that the English page is - according to "Page
Info" in Firefox and on the shell with `wget --post-data="language=de"
-S https://lists.funkfeuer.at/mailman/listinfo/user` - delivered as
"UTF-8" and the German one as "ISO-8859-1" as you (and everybody else)
can see on  https://lists.funkfeuer.at/mailman/listinfo/user.
The German summary on both pages has been entered through the web
interface of the list administrator.

> Alternatively, it can be addressed in the web server by configuring it
> so it doesn't specify these documents as utf-8.

This is IMHO the case.
----  snip  ----
711#grep AddDef /etc/apache2/apache2.conf
AddDefaultCharset       off
----  snip  ----

	Bernd
-- 
Firmix Software GmbH                   http://www.firmix.at/
mobil: +43 664 4416156                 fax: +43 1 7890849-55
          Embedded Linux Development and Services