From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar  1 00:23:47 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 15:23:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] block cc?
In-Reply-To: <8edc068c6cbfe6b67171e212d2f468f7@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <PC17412005022815234707245c869363@msapiro>

Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
>
>On Feb 28, 2005, at 12:59 PM, Christopher Adams wrote:
>
>> A list owner asked me if a list can be configured so that any message 
>> sent to the list could not have a cc (carbon copy) attached.
>
>that'd be a very bad idea. Look at this message, for instance. It'd 
>block any message sent to the list with reply-to-all.
>
>you'd be blocking stuff based on a standard operation by many mail 
>clients.

I agree with Chuq, but if you really want to do this, you can go to
Privacy options...->Recipient filters and set
require_explicit_destination to Yes and max_num_recipients to 2 and
then any post which is not addressed to the list and only the list
will be held.

Neither this nor anything else you can do will stop Bcc: though.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From andyk at spunge.org  Tue Mar  1 00:38:15 2005
From: andyk at spunge.org (Andy)
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 17:38:15 -0600 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving of the subscribers with their passwords,
	preferences etc.
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0502281737160.29640@chi.spunge.org>

Hi!

Is that possible during moving of the lists to a new server to move all users
along with their e-mails, names, passwords and preferences they set, so that
they would not need to resubscribe (or that list-owner would not need to
subscribe them again, what would unfortunately generate new passwords for
them)?
Which files to move in order to do that?

Regards
ak



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar  1 00:39:54 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 15:39:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Full Personalization CC: field
In-Reply-To: <69654C1963C8F64FA560BCC6ECD12B3A01F56E04@FTL1MSEX01>
Message-ID: <PC1741200502281539540349cac10673@msapiro>

Pantejo, Barbara wrote:

>I turned on Full Personalization under the Non-Digestable area, but I
>noticed that the name of the mailing list (i.e. the mailing list
>description) was sent in the CC: field. What should I do to empty the CC:
>field or at least don't send the name of the mailing list in the CC: field?
>

This is done intentionally so that the list address is in a header to
facilitate replies to the list. It is not done if the list is set for
"reply goes to list" as the list address is already in Reply-To: in
this case. Also, beginning with 2.1.6 (or with the patch at
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1117618&group_id=103&atid=300103),
it is not done if the list is "anonymous" as the list address is
already in From: and Reply-To: in that case.

If the list is fully personalized, not anonymous and not "reply goes to
list", the list description and address will be placed in Cc: unless
you change the code in Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py to do otherwise.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar  1 00:59:02 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 15:59:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving of the subscribers with their passwords,
	preferences etc.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0502281737160.29640@chi.spunge.org>
Message-ID: <PC17412005022815590208331f0529e3@msapiro>

Andy wrote:
>
>Is that possible during moving of the lists to a new server to move all users
>along with their e-mails, names, passwords and preferences they set, so that
>they would not need to resubscribe (or that list-owner would not need to
>subscribe them again, what would unfortunately generate new passwords for
>them)?
>Which files to move in order to do that?

Move the directories and files in the lists/ directory. At a minimum
all you really need for list settings, members, member options and
passwords is the lists/<listname>/config.pck (or config.db for pre
2.1.x) file for each list.

You can move a config.* from an older release to a newer release and
Mailman should automatically update it on the new release, but I think
this is only guaranteed for config.pck files. In the case of a
config.db file, there are possible incompatibilities if the Python
versions are different on the source and destination.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar  1 01:21:09 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 16:21:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] filtering body content
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20050228142622.029b3740@aplonis.com>
Message-ID: <PC17412005022816210908492716597a@msapiro>

List Manager wrote:
>
>I know that it has been asked many many times but I haven't seen any 
>solutions posted about how to filter the body content of the messages. Does 
>someone have a solution for that? Or even a work-around?

I assume you don't mean filtering based on MIME Content-Type: since
that is completely doable with the existing content filtering options.
Rather, I guess you mean filtering based on the actual contents of the
message.

To do this, you can create a custom handler module to do the filtering
and add it to the pipeline. It could be added either to the
GLOBAL_PIPELINE or to a list specific pipline attribute.

There are existing patches/handlers to interface for example with
SpamAssassin. See for example
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.023.htp

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From bryan at skiblack.com  Tue Mar  1 00:16:20 2005
From: bryan at skiblack.com (Bryan Blackwell)
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 18:16:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to transfer Majordomo archive to mailman
In-Reply-To: <200502282251.33316.mm@mewes.tv>
References: <4ca4d5af05022809512802e0e3@mail.gmail.com>
	<200502282251.33316.mm@mewes.tv>
Message-ID: <0b39a4259cd32f73ac0bb4957755db0a@skiblack.com>

I've been looking for an answer to migrating archives as well.  The 
only problem with this procedure is this step:

On Feb 28, 2005, at 4:51 PM, Martin Mewes wrote:

> d) Copy the mbox of the majordomo-list to the correct place of the
> mailman-mbox
>
Majordomo doesn't (by default anyway) store its sent messages in an 
mbox.  My archives are essentially a directory with all the digests.  
You can see one of the digests here:

http://www.corvair.org/chapters/test/v02.n4928.txt

I've taken a look at the old digest_arch script, but I don't know 
python at all to figure out how to make it work (I tried a pass on some 
test files, but didn't end up with a useful mbox).  I've also dug 
through the FAQ and the Mailman Users list archive, but I haven't found 
a posted solution.  If someone has made this work and can pass a 
solution or clue, I'd be grateful.  I do know perl and shell scripting 
well enough to adapt someone else's solution, if something like that 
exists.  Thanks for any insight.
--
--  Bryan Blackwell --
Unix System Administrator
bryan at skiblack.com



From bryan at skiblack.com  Tue Mar  1 01:48:54 2005
From: bryan at skiblack.com (Bryan Blackwell)
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 19:48:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving of the subscribers with their passwords,
	preferences etc.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0502281737160.29640@chi.spunge.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0502281737160.29640@chi.spunge.org>
Message-ID: <2905c4e5bf286bafb264ad8ca3f1cbff@skiblack.com>

I just did exactly this, following the procedure at:

http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers at python.org/msg03127.html

Worked great.
--
--  Bryan Blackwell --
Unix System Administrator
bryan at skiblack.com

On Feb 28, 2005, at 6:38 PM, Andy wrote:

> Hi!
>
> Is that possible during moving of the lists to a new server to move 
> all users
> along with their e-mails, names, passwords and preferences they set, 
> so that
> they would not need to resubscribe (or that list-owner would not need 
> to
> subscribe them again, what would unfortunately generate new passwords 
> for
> them)?
> Which files to move in order to do that?
>
> Regards
> ak



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar  1 04:30:21 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 19:30:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2 initial config problems (virtual hosts
	andpermissions)
In-Reply-To: <728JBbwTd3120S11.1109629169@cmsweb11.cms.usa.net>
Message-ID: <PC17412005022819302100688c6e65f9@msapiro>

FH wrote:
>
>1) Error: Unknown virtual host: machine
>I was able to create the mailman list via the cli (step 8) w/o any problems. 
>When I try creating a list via the web though I get the above error.  I've
>played around w/ a few combinations of machine machine.domain.tld etc in the
>mm_cfg.py file and the add_virtualhost parameter but I still either get the
>error or I get another page which says something about a "bug" in the program
>(funny thing is even when I get this page the list is created).  
>

This error occurs because the hostname of the URL used to access the
list create web page is not a key (one of the "URL host" entries) in
the VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary.


>FWIW as I mentioned the machine is also our mail server, the hostname command
>returns MACHINE (in case that's important).  The DNS name (aka it's not a
>CNAME) of the machine is MACHINE.DOMAIN.TLD (which is also the
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST [set via the configure option]), email though is addressed to
>@DOMAIN.TLD (which is also the DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST [set via the configure
>option]).  As mentioned the error just says "MACHINE" so I've tried things
>like add_defaultdomain ('MACHINE', 'DOMAIN.TLD')

What's this? Do you mean

add_virtualhost('MACHINE', 'DOMAIN.TLD')

which is what you should do to allow 'MACHINE' to be a URL host.


>but that's when I get the
>other "bug" page (apologies I don't have a copy handy but if it's important I
>can probably regenerate it).

If it resulted after adding the above add_virtualhost() in mm_cfg.py, I
don't know why without seeing it.

If you're not actually using virtual hosts, you can set

VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off

in mm_cfg.py, and it will avoid checks like the one that produces the
above error.

>Also I noticed when I pull up the
>http://machine/mailman/admin page at the bottom is says "Send questions and
>comments to mailman at MACHINE" that's it not mailman at MACHINE.DOMAIN.TLD.  Is
>that somehow related?

Here again, the host name part of the URL ('machine' in the case of
http://machine/mailman/admin) is looked up in the VIRTUAL_HOSTS
dictionary and the corresponding email host is used inless there is no
such key in which case just the host name is used.

> What's the appropriate syntax so that MACHINE is an
>"acceptable" virtual host.


add_virtualhost('MACHINE', 'DOMAIN.TLD')


>BTW in case it's related I don't have any virtual hosts set in postfix and
>mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost, $mydomain
>myhostname = MACHINE.DOMAIN.TLD
>mydomain = DOMAIN.TLD
>
>
>
>2) Looking at the maillog file I'm seeing this error occasionally
>
>Feb 28 16:31:31 MACHINE postfix/postalias[1765]: [ID 947731 mail.crit] fatal:
>open /local/home/mailman/data/aliases.dir: Permission denied
>
>Applicable info for this error includes:
>MACHINE# ls -al /local/home/mailman/data/
>total 44
>drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman      512 Feb 28 16:38 ./
>drwxrwsr-x  20 root     mailman      512 Feb 28 16:02 ../
>-rw-r-----   1 root     mailman       41 Feb 28 16:22 adm.pw
>-rw-rw----   1 root     mailman     1165 Feb 28 16:38 aliases
>-rw-r-----   1 mailman  mailman        0 Feb 28 16:38 aliases.dir
>-rw-r-----   1 mailman  mailman     1024 Feb 28 16:38 aliases.pag
>
>At one point I did chown aliases* to mailman but it has since reverted.  When
>I originally configured mailman I used the --with-mail-gid=postdrop and I
>didn't specify a username (there is obviously a mailman user ;)).  Although
>the install.txt file recommended using hash my install of postfix has problems
>w/ that so I'm using: 
>alias_maps = dbm:/etc/mail/aliases,dbm:/local/home/mailman/data/aliases
>
>All things postfix are running as the user postfix, all things mailman
>(qrunner is the only continuous process right?) are running as mailman.  I did
>put the postfix "user" in the mailman group (mailman isn't in there though)


The 'mailman' user should definitely be in the 'mailman' group.


>thinking that may help but it didn't seem too.  BTW the apache server is
>mostly running as nobody, there is one instance that ends up as root.  (The
>apache server is brand new too but that install/config seems to have gone ok. 
>Eventually though I want to clear up the 1 root instance and integrate SSL in
>but I figured it was best to get the above issues worked out first ;))
>
>What are the proper owner/permission settings for these files?

Have you tried bin/check_perms?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mm at mewes.tv  Tue Mar  1 08:51:28 2005
From: mm at mewes.tv (Martin Mewes)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 08:51:28 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to transfer Majordomo archive to mailman
In-Reply-To: <0b39a4259cd32f73ac0bb4957755db0a@skiblack.com>
References: <4ca4d5af05022809512802e0e3@mail.gmail.com>
	<200502282251.33316.mm@mewes.tv>
	<0b39a4259cd32f73ac0bb4957755db0a@skiblack.com>
Message-ID: <200503010851.29160.mm@mewes.tv>

Hi Bryan,

no need to send a post to the list _and_ a cc to me as I am reading the 
list :-)

Bryan Blackwell <bryan at skiblack.com> wrote :

> Majordomo doesn't (by default anyway) store its sent messages in an
> mbox.  My archives are essentially a directory with all the digests.
> You can see one of the digests here:
>
> http://www.corvair.org/chapters/test/v02.n4928.txt

As far as I can see you should provide a real mbox where eMails are 
stored with full headers. If you do not have one, you can only re-post 
them to the new mailman-list, but I am unsure about that.

The initial mbox-conversion to HTML can be done with (Mailman version 
2.1.6b3)

mailman at ds$ /usr/local/mailman/bin: ./arch --help

<cite>
Rebuild a list's archive.

Use this command to rebuild the archives for a mailing list.  You may 
want to do this if you edit some messages in an archive, or remove some 
messages from an archive.

Usage: ./arch [options] <listname> [<mbox>]

Where options are:
    -h / --help
        Print this help message and exit.

    -q / --quiet
        Make the archiver output less verbose.

    --wipe
        First wipe out the original archive before regenerating.  You
	usually want to specify this argument unless you're generating the
	archive in chunks.

    -s N
    --start=N
        Start indexing at article N, where article 0 is the first in the
	mbox. Defaults to 0.

    -e M
    --end=M
        End indexing at article M.  This script is not very efficient
	with respect to memory management, and for large archives, it may not
	be possible to index the mbox entirely.  For that reason, you can
	specify the start and end article numbers.

Where <mbox> is the path to a list's complete mbox archive.  Usually 
this will be some path in the archives/private directory.  For example:

% bin/arch mylist archives/private/mylist.mbox/mylist.mbox

<mbox> is optional.  If it is missing, it is calculated.

</cite>

If this is not easy enough I cannot be of anymore help as I did my 
migration with this one.

bis dahin/kind regards
   
Martin Mewes
   
-- 
I am on holiday. Your e-mail has been deleted.


From sm at malmz.com  Tue Mar  1 02:57:09 2005
From: sm at malmz.com (Steve Malm)
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 17:57:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Install needed on iPower Linux box w/ Plesk
Message-ID: <200503010157.j211vIuY002998@ms-smtp-03-eri0.socal.rr.com>

Looking for somebody to do a remote install and configuration on a new
dedicated iPower server with a Plesk control panel.  Just need Mailman setup
so I can access it and build lists from the Plesk control panel.  It's a bit
over my head and I don't have time to learn.  Respond directly w/ rate and a
couple of references if you can help me out.  No learners like me please.



From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Mar  1 10:44:31 2005
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 10:44:31 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] E-Mail List
Message-ID: <p0620070dbe49e9066235@[10.0.1.3]>

At Mon Feb 28 18:32:37 CET 2005, Ken Welch <Ken at OnlineMortgage.com> said:

>  I am the owner of OnlineMortgage.com I have a list of about 85,000
>  opt-in subscribers I would like to consistently email to 1x week.  Do
>  you have a program that can assist me.what's the mo. Cost and set up
>  cost.

	Please see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.017.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> <http://www.shub-internet.org/brad/>

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
     -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Mar  1 10:48:53 2005
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 10:48:53 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Full Personalization CC: field
Message-ID: <p0620070ebe49ea81bb36@[10.0.1.3]>

At Mon Feb 28 22:52:08 CET 2005, "Pantejo, Barbara FTL" 
<BPantejo at citco.com> said:

>  I turned on Full Personalization under the Non-Digestable area, but I
>  noticed that the name of the mailing list (i.e. the mailing list
>  description) was sent in the CC: field. What should I do to empty the CC:
>  field or at least don't send the name of the mailing list in the CC: field?

	You can't.  That's how Full Personalization works -- the 
recipient e-mail address goes into the "To:" header, and the mailing 
list address goes into the "Cc:".

	See also 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.037.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> <http://www.shub-internet.org/brad/>

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
     -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Mar  1 10:44:21 2005
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 10:44:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Install needed on iPower Linux box w/
 Plesk
Message-ID: <p0620070cbe49e6e6e2b4@[10.0.1.3]>

At Tue Mar 1 02:57:09 CET 2005, Steve Malm <sm at malmz.com> said:

>  Looking for somebody to do a remote install and configuration on a new
>  dedicated iPower server with a Plesk control panel.  Just need Mailman setup
>  so I can access it and build lists from the Plesk control panel.  It's a bit
>  over my head and I don't have time to learn.  Respond directly w/ rate and a
>  couple of references if you can help me out.  No learners like me please.

	I believe that Plesk is available with a version of Mailman 
pre-integrated.  If you're going to try to use Mailman with Plesk, I 
would strongly urge you to take advantage of that pre-integrated 
version, so that you will be able to get support and assistance with 
that from their support forums.

	Trying to integrate your own copy of Mailman with Plesk is an 
involved and difficult subject.  So far as I am personally aware, 
only one group has managed to get this working.  While we hope to be 
able to take their experience and fold that into the Mailman 
documentation, that has not happened yet and I don't know when we'll 
be able to get that done.


	See also 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.015.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> <http://www.shub-internet.org/brad/>

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
     -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Mar  1 11:10:34 2005
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 19:10:34 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Home-grown filters
In-Reply-To: <PC1741200502261808420015aa7c4719@msapiro> (Mark Sapiro's
	message of "Sat, 26 Feb 2005 18:08:42 -0800")
References: <PC1741200502261808420015aa7c4719@msapiro>
Message-ID: <87mztn65id.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Mark" == Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> writes:

    Mark> Brad Knowles wrote:

    >> At 3:15 PM -0500 2005-02-26, Les Schaffer wrote:

    >>> is there a way to alter pipelines for a specific subset of
    >>> lists on a Mailman list server?
    >> No, not that I know of.

    Mark> All you have to do is define a 'pipline' attribute for the
    Mark> list (with bin/withlist for example) and the list's pipline
    Mark> will override the global pipeline for that list. This is
    Mark> mentioned in the comment preceding GLOBAL_PIPELINE in
    Mark> Defaults.py.

Works for me.

In particular, we run a bunch of xemacs-* lists right next to a bunch
of lists run by other organizations on the same host.

By changing the pipeline for xemacs-test (to which I am privileged to
be the charter and unique subscriber :-) I can test to my heart's
content, then use bin/withlist to add/subtract/edit the other xemacs
lists.

None of this affects the third-party lists.

It was pretty easy to figure out by trying, but if you want help feel
free to ask me.

All of this is remarkably cool, considering that I don't even have the
global mailman password.  (But you do need access to restart the
qrunners so that the new Handlers will get picked up.  sudo will do,
you don't need to su root or mailman.)

-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From theall at tifaware.com  Tue Mar  1 13:29:33 2005
From: theall at tifaware.com (George Theall)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 07:29:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to transfer Majordomo archive to mailman
In-Reply-To: <0b39a4259cd32f73ac0bb4957755db0a@skiblack.com>
References: <4ca4d5af05022809512802e0e3@mail.gmail.com>
	<200502282251.33316.mm@mewes.tv>
	<0b39a4259cd32f73ac0bb4957755db0a@skiblack.com>
Message-ID: <20050301122933.GA29150@tifaware.com>

On Mon, Feb 28, 2005 at 06:16:20PM -0500, Bryan Blackwell wrote:

> Majordomo doesn't (by default anyway) store its sent messages in an 
> mbox.  My archives are essentially a directory with all the digests.  
...
> I do know perl and shell scripting 

Then what you need is a script that collects the messages from digests
and outputs them in mbox format.  I don't know if such a thing exists,
but if you want the archives badly enough you can always write one. 

I did this for some archives I had (in Hypermail format); the script's
at <http://www.tifaware.com/perl/hm2mbox/>.  You're welcome to use that
as the basis for your script. 

George
-- 
theall at tifaware.com
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From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Mar  1 16:44:06 2005
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 16:44:06 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Install needed on iPower Linux box w/
 Plesk
In-Reply-To: <200503011542.j21Fg3kM003068@ms-smtp-01-eri0.socal.rr.com>
References: <200503011542.j21Fg3kM003068@ms-smtp-01-eri0.socal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <p0620070fbe4a3e2c575a@[10.0.1.3]>

At 7:41 AM -0800 2005-03-01, Steve Malm wrote:

>  I can actually see Mailman on the control panel, but it is grayed and says
>  it's not configured.  Perhaps I just need somebody to configure the
>  pre-integrated version?

	Sounds like a reasonable conclusion.  Check with your hosting provider.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> <http://www.shub-internet.org/brad/>

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
     -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.


From brad at shub-internet.org  Tue Mar  1 17:35:49 2005
From: brad at shub-internet.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 17:35:49 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Install needed on iPower Linux box w/
 Plesk
In-Reply-To: <200503011550.j21FoDkM009008@ms-smtp-01-eri0.socal.rr.com>
References: <200503011550.j21FoDkM009008@ms-smtp-01-eri0.socal.rr.com>
Message-ID: <p06200711be4a4a1e241c@[10.0.1.3]>

At 7:50 AM -0800 2005-03-01, Steve Malm wrote:

>  Still looking for a hired hand to configure it if that is the case.

	If it is installed and not configured, then what you need is a 
Plesk expert who knows how to do the Plesk-necessary things to get it 
configured.  I doubt that a Mailman expert is going to be able to 
help you in that area.

-- 
Brad Knowles <brad at shub-internet.org> <http://www.shub-internet.org/brad/>

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
     -Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.


From fhouston at usa.net  Tue Mar  1 18:54:52 2005
From: fhouston at usa.net (FH)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 12:54:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2 initial config problems (virtual hosts
	andpermissions)
Message-ID: <529JcaR314160S07.1109699692@uwdvg007.cms.usa.net>

------ Original Message ------
Received: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:30:31 PM EST
From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
To: FH <fhouston at usa.net>, <mailman-users at python.org>
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] 2 initial config problems (virtual hosts
andpermissions)

> 
> What's this? Do you mean
> 
> add_virtualhost('MACHINE', 'DOMAIN.TLD')
>

DOH!  You're right, typo in the email on my part.  I was using the correct
entry in the mm_cfg file though.
 
> 
> >but that's when I get the
> >other "bug" page (apologies I don't have a copy handy but if it's 
> >important I can probably regenerate it).
> 
> If it resulted after adding the above add_virtualhost() in mm_cfg.py, I
> don't know why without seeing it.
>

I included the text from logs/error below[1].  If I'm reading that right, the
two problems might actually be related, the first line is something about a
permissions problem.

> 
> If you're not actually using virtual hosts, you can set
> 
> VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off
> 

Tried this and it didn't make a difference w/ the list creation problem but
the issue about the email address being incorrect on the admin page did get
"solved" :D




> >All things postfix are running as the user postfix, all things mailman
> >(qrunner is the only continuous process right?) are running as mailman.  
> > I did put the postfix "user" in the mailman group (mailman isn't in 
> > there though)
> 
> 
> The 'mailman' user should definitely be in the 'mailman' group.
> 

Added it...  didn't make a difference :(

> 
> Have you tried bin/check_perms?
> 
Yep.  Here's a test run to show you what's going on:

# ls -al data
total 44
drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman      512 Mar  1 11:25 ./
drwxrwsr-x  20 root     mailman      512 Feb 28 16:02 ../
-rw-r-----   1 root     mailman       41 Feb 28 16:22 adm.pw
-rw-rw----   1 mailman  mailman     1165 Mar  1 11:25 aliases
-rw-r-----   1 mailman  mailman        0 Mar  1 11:25 aliases.dir
-rw-r-----   1 mailman  mailman     1024 Mar  1 11:25 aliases.pag
-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman       10 Feb 28 16:07 last_mailman_version
-rw-rw----   1 mailman  mailman        5 Feb 28 16:21 master-qrunner.pid
-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman    14110 Feb 28 16:02 sitelist.cfg

# bin/check_perms 
No problems found

CREATE LIST VIA WEBPAGE -> Bug in Mailman version 2.1.6b4 We're sorry, we hit
a bug! (error log below [1])

# ls -al data/  NOTE ALIASES REVERTED BACK TO ROOT
total 44
drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman      512 Mar  1 11:32 ./
drwxrwsr-x  20 root     mailman      512 Feb 28 16:02 ../
-rw-r-----   1 root     mailman       41 Feb 28 16:22 adm.pw
-rw-rw----   1 root     mailman     1906 Mar  1 11:33 aliases
-rw-r-----   1 mailman  mailman        0 Mar  1 11:32 aliases.dir
-rw-r-----   1 mailman  mailman     1024 Mar  1 11:32 aliases.pag
-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman       10 Feb 28 16:07 last_mailman_version
-rw-rw----   1 mailman  mailman        5 Feb 28 16:21 master-qrunner.pid
-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman    14110 Feb 28 16:02 sitelist.cfg

# bin/check_perms 
No problems found

I'm sure it's something simple/stupid I over looked, it usually is ;)  I can't
for the life of me figure out what though.  Is it something w/ the web browser
permissions/user maybe?  Should that user (nobody w/ one instance as root) be
in the mailman group as well?

Thanks


[1]
Mar 01 11:33:22 2005 (11039) command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias
/local/home/mailman/data/aliases (status: 1, Not owner)
Mar 01 11:33:22 2005 admin(11039):
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 
admin(11039): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.6b4 -----] 
admin(11039): [----- Traceback ------] 
admin(11039): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(11039):   File "/local/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in
run_main
admin(11039):     main()
admin(11039):   File "/local/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 55, in
main
admin(11039):     process_request(doc, cgidata)
admin(11039):   File "/local/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 227, in
process_request
admin(11039):     sys.modules[modname].create(mlist, cgi=1)
admin(11039):   File "/local/home/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 232,
in create
admin(11039):     _update_maps()
admin(11039):   File "/local/home/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 53, in
_update_maps
admin(11039):     raise RuntimeError, msg % (acmd, status, errstr)
admin(11039): RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias
/local/home/mailman/data/aliases (status: 1, Not owner)
admin(11039): [----- Python Information -----] 
admin(11039): sys.version     =   2.3.5 (#1, Feb 28 2005, 12:33:10) 
[GCC 3.4.2] 
admin(11039): sys.executable  =   /usr/local/bin/python 
admin(11039): sys.prefix      =   /usr/local 
admin(11039): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr/local 
admin(11039): sys.path        =   /usr/local 
admin(11039): sys.platform    =   sunos5 
admin(11039): [----- Environment Variables -----] 
admin(11039):   HTTP_COOKIE:
iPlanetPortalServer=YmlchoifpftnfneanBTBHG at uggcf@fcyvggre.vfv.rqh at 443@/arj 
admin(11039):   SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/2.0.52 (Unix) 
admin(11039):   SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/create 
admin(11039):   SERVER_SIGNATURE: <address>Apache/2.0.52 (Unix) Server at
DOMAIN.TLD Port 80</address>
admin(11039): 
admin(11039):   REQUEST_METHOD: POST 
admin(11039):   HTTP_KEEP_ALIVE: 300 
admin(11039):   SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1 
admin(11039):   QUERY_STRING:  
admin(11039):   CONTENT_LENGTH: 151 
admin(11039):   HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7 
admin(11039):   HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0;
en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) 
admin(11039):   TZ: US/Eastern 
admin(11039):   HTTP_REFERER: http://DOMAIN.TLD/mailman/create 
admin(11039):   SERVER_NAME: DOMAIN.TLD
admin(11039):   REMOTE_ADDR: x.x.x.x
admin(11039):   SERVER_PORT: 80 
admin(11039):   HTTP_XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX: XXXXXXXXXXXX 
admin(11039):   SERVER_ADDR: x.x.x.x 
admin(11039):   DOCUMENT_ROOT: /local/home/apache2/htdocs 
admin(11039):   PYTHONPATH: /local/home/mailman 
admin(11039):   SCRIPT_FILENAME: /local/home/mailman/cgi-bin/create 
admin(11039):   SERVER_ADMIN: USER at DOMAIN.TLD
admin(11039):   HTTP_HOST: DOMAIN.TLD 
admin(11039):   HTTP_CONNECTION: keep-alive 
admin(11039):   REQUEST_URI: /mailman/create 
admin(11039):   HTTP_ACCEPT:
text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5

admin(11039):   GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1 
admin(11039):   REMOTE_PORT: 1558 
admin(11039):   HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en-us,en;q=0.5 
admin(11039):   CONTENT_TYPE: application/x-www-form-urlencoded 




From chris.a.adams at state.or.us  Tue Mar  1 20:00:11 2005
From: chris.a.adams at state.or.us (Christopher Adams)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 11:00:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] extract non-address information from subscriber
	list?
Message-ID: <4224BBBB.20000@state.or.us>

Is there a way to extract all the non-address information from a 
subscriber list? Where is that information stored? I am speaking of any 
name, contact, phone information that was added in addition to the email 
address.


-- 
Christopher Adams



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Mar  1 20:59:58 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 20:59:58 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] extract non-address information from
	subscriber 	list?
In-Reply-To: <4224BBBB.20000@state.or.us>
References: <4224BBBB.20000@state.or.us>
Message-ID: <p06200713be4a79ee58f2@[10.0.1.3]>

At 11:00 AM -0800 2005-03-01, Christopher Adams wrote:

>  Is there a way to extract all the non-address information from a
>  subscriber list? Where is that information stored? I am speaking of any
>  name, contact, phone information that was added in addition to the email
>  address.

	Mailman stores an optional name, along with the e-mail address, 
but nothing more.  If you've entered anything more, then you would 
appear to have a customized version of Mailman and you would need to 
contact the person(s) who provided/applied that patched version.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From chris.a.adams at state.or.us  Tue Mar  1 21:09:12 2005
From: chris.a.adams at state.or.us (Christopher Adams)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 12:09:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] extract non-address information fromsubscriber
	list?
In-Reply-To: <p06200713be4a79ee58f2@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <4224BBBB.20000@state.or.us> <p06200713be4a79ee58f2@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <4224CBE8.90507@state.or.us>

I am only talking about the information included with the address. I 
guess it is only names, but I see that some list owners have entered 
other information using the "whatever information"<email at wherever.com> 
format. I just need to get the addresses and information, most likely 
names, connected with the addresses. I have tried the list_member 
script, the subscriber list from the list information page and the list 
from the membership management page. The only place the other 
information shows up is in the Membership Management/Membership List page.

Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 11:00 AM -0800 2005-03-01, Christopher Adams wrote:
> 
>>  Is there a way to extract all the non-address information from a
>>  subscriber list? Where is that information stored? I am speaking of any
>>  name, contact, phone information that was added in addition to the email
>>  address.
> 
> 
>     Mailman stores an optional name, along with the e-mail address, but 
> nothing more.  If you've entered anything more, then you would appear to 
> have a customized version of Mailman and you would need to contact the 
> person(s) who provided/applied that patched version.
> 

-- 
Christopher Adams
Library Systems Analyst
Oregon State Library
503-378-4243 258
chris.a.adams at state.or.us



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar  1 21:21:09 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 12:21:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] extract non-address information
	fromsubscriberlist?
In-Reply-To: <4224CBE8.90507@state.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC1741200503011221090578ee2d47eb@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:

>I am only talking about the information included with the address. I 
>guess it is only names, but I see that some list owners have entered 
>other information using the "whatever information"<email at wherever.com> 
>format. I just need to get the addresses and information, most likely 
>names, connected with the addresses. I have tried the list_member 
>script, the subscriber list from the list information page and the list 
>from the membership management page. The only place the other 
>information shows up is in the Membership Management/Membership List page.

If it is in the member name text box under the members address on the
Membership List page,

bin/listmembers --fullnames

should show it. See

bin/list_members --help

for more info.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar  1 21:50:47 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 12:50:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2 initial config problems (virtual
	hostsandpermissions)
In-Reply-To: <529JcaR314160S07.1109699692@uwdvg007.cms.usa.net>
Message-ID: <PC17412005030112504702812010b6c8@msapiro>

FH wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> 
>> What's this? Do you mean
>> 
>> add_virtualhost('MACHINE', 'DOMAIN.TLD')
>>
>
>DOH!  You're right, typo in the email on my part.  I was using the correct
>entry in the mm_cfg file though.
> 
>> 
>> >but that's when I get the
>> >other "bug" page (apologies I don't have a copy handy but if it's 
>> >important I can probably regenerate it).
>> 
>> If it resulted after adding the above add_virtualhost() in mm_cfg.py, I
>> don't know why without seeing it.
>>
>
>I included the text from logs/error below[1].  If I'm reading that right, the
>two problems might actually be related, the first line is something about a
>permissions problem.
>

The add_virtualhost() line in mm_cfg.py does not cause this "error
report". It just fixes the problem with 'MACHINE' not being in the
VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary and allows the create script to proceed to
the point where it encounters this new error.

<snip>
>
>CREATE LIST VIA WEBPAGE -> Bug in Mailman version 2.1.6b4 We're sorry, we hit
>a bug! (error log below [1])
>
># ls -al data/  NOTE ALIASES REVERTED BACK TO ROOT
>total 44
>drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman      512 Mar  1 11:32 ./
>drwxrwsr-x  20 root     mailman      512 Feb 28 16:02 ../
>-rw-r-----   1 root     mailman       41 Feb 28 16:22 adm.pw
>-rw-rw----   1 root     mailman     1906 Mar  1 11:33 aliases
>-rw-r-----   1 mailman  mailman        0 Mar  1 11:32 aliases.dir
>-rw-r-----   1 mailman  mailman     1024 Mar  1 11:32 aliases.pag
>-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman       10 Feb 28 16:07 last_mailman_version
>-rw-rw----   1 mailman  mailman        5 Feb 28 16:21 master-qrunner.pid
>-rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman    14110 Feb 28 16:02 sitelist.cfg
>
># bin/check_perms 
>No problems found
>
>I'm sure it's something simple/stupid I over looked, it usually is ;)  I can't
>for the life of me figure out what though.  Is it something w/ the web browser
>permissions/user maybe?  Should that user (nobody w/ one instance as root) be
>in the mailman group as well?

The error and trace information below seems to say that the create
script has finished creating the list and has called the Postscript
script to do the Postscript specific list stuff. This in turn has
added the alias information to the aliases file and is now trying to
execute the POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD (/usr/sbin/postalias) to update the
alias map files.

The command appears to be complaining that the executing user (nobody)
doesn't own the alias file.

Mailman's security and permissions are based on the group. You will
note that both the mailman/ and mailman/data directories are group
"rws" group mailman, so the scripts which are running under group
'mailman' as set by the cgi-bin wrapper can do their things OK, but it
seems that Postfix's postalias command wants the executing user (not
group) to own the aliases file.

This is puzzling to me since the updated aliases file is owned by root,
I would guess that the user running the script was root and it seems
it should work.

What happens if you run postaliases manually? If you can figure out how
to make that work, you might be able to figure the rest.

Sorry for not being more specific. I really don't know much about the
Postfix stuff.

>[1]
>Mar 01 11:33:22 2005 (11039) command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias
>/local/home/mailman/data/aliases (status: 1, Not owner)
>Mar 01 11:33:22 2005 admin(11039):
>@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ 
>admin(11039): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.6b4 -----] 
>admin(11039): [----- Traceback ------] 
>admin(11039): Traceback (most recent call last):
>admin(11039):   File "/local/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in
>run_main
>admin(11039):     main()
>admin(11039):   File "/local/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 55, in
>main
>admin(11039):     process_request(doc, cgidata)
>admin(11039):   File "/local/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 227, in
>process_request
>admin(11039):     sys.modules[modname].create(mlist, cgi=1)
>admin(11039):   File "/local/home/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 232,
>in create
>admin(11039):     _update_maps()
>admin(11039):   File "/local/home/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 53, in
>_update_maps
>admin(11039):     raise RuntimeError, msg % (acmd, status, errstr)
>admin(11039): RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias
>/local/home/mailman/data/aliases (status: 1, Not owner)
>admin(11039): [----- Python Information -----] 
>admin(11039): sys.version     =   2.3.5 (#1, Feb 28 2005, 12:33:10) 
>[GCC 3.4.2] 
>admin(11039): sys.executable  =   /usr/local/bin/python 
>admin(11039): sys.prefix      =   /usr/local 
>admin(11039): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr/local 
>admin(11039): sys.path        =   /usr/local 
>admin(11039): sys.platform    =   sunos5 
>admin(11039): [----- Environment Variables -----] 
>admin(11039):   HTTP_COOKIE:
>iPlanetPortalServer=YmlchoifpftnfneanBTBHG at uggcf@fcyvggre.vfv.rqh at 443@/arj 
>admin(11039):   SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache/2.0.52 (Unix) 
>admin(11039):   SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/create 
>admin(11039):   SERVER_SIGNATURE: <address>Apache/2.0.52 (Unix) Server at
>DOMAIN.TLD Port 80</address>
>admin(11039): 
>admin(11039):   REQUEST_METHOD: POST 
>admin(11039):   HTTP_KEEP_ALIVE: 300 
>admin(11039):   SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1 
>admin(11039):   QUERY_STRING:  
>admin(11039):   CONTENT_LENGTH: 151 
>admin(11039):   HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7 
>admin(11039):   HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0;
>en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) 
>admin(11039):   TZ: US/Eastern 
>admin(11039):   HTTP_REFERER: http://DOMAIN.TLD/mailman/create 
>admin(11039):   SERVER_NAME: DOMAIN.TLD
>admin(11039):   REMOTE_ADDR: x.x.x.x
>admin(11039):   SERVER_PORT: 80 
>admin(11039):   HTTP_XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX: XXXXXXXXXXXX 
>admin(11039):   SERVER_ADDR: x.x.x.x 
>admin(11039):   DOCUMENT_ROOT: /local/home/apache2/htdocs 
>admin(11039):   PYTHONPATH: /local/home/mailman 
>admin(11039):   SCRIPT_FILENAME: /local/home/mailman/cgi-bin/create 
>admin(11039):   SERVER_ADMIN: USER at DOMAIN.TLD
>admin(11039):   HTTP_HOST: DOMAIN.TLD 
>admin(11039):   HTTP_CONNECTION: keep-alive 
>admin(11039):   REQUEST_URI: /mailman/create 
>admin(11039):   HTTP_ACCEPT:
>text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5
>
>admin(11039):   GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1 
>admin(11039):   REMOTE_PORT: 1558 
>admin(11039):   HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: en-us,en;q=0.5 
>admin(11039):   CONTENT_TYPE: application/x-www-form-urlencoded 

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mailmannik at j2d.lam.net.au  Wed Mar  2 00:30:28 2005
From: mailmannik at j2d.lam.net.au (Nik Lam)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 10:30:28 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] show_qfiles error
Message-ID: <4224FB14.9050504@j2d.lam.net.au>

When I try to view the qfiles in my in out or retry directories I get an 
error like the following:

/usr/local/mailman/bin/show_qfiles qfiles/in/*.pck
====================> 
qfiles/in/1109557589.84778+7a750d59fd76a54b51168a615ef23e74f4088be9.pck
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/show_qfiles", line 74, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/show_qfiles", line 67, in main
    sys.stdout.write(msg.as_string())
AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'as_string'

I'm running Mailman version: 2.1.5 on FreeBSD 4.9 R.    The qfiles that 
were in the other directories, e.g. shunt, were readable using 
show_qfiles.  Are these qfiles corrupted or is this a problem with 
show_qfiles?


Nik






From bryan at skiblack.com  Tue Mar  1 17:22:03 2005
From: bryan at skiblack.com (Bryan Blackwell)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 11:22:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to transfer Majordomo archive to mailman
In-Reply-To: <200503010851.29160.mm@mewes.tv>
References: <4ca4d5af05022809512802e0e3@mail.gmail.com>
	<200502282251.33316.mm@mewes.tv>
	<0b39a4259cd32f73ac0bb4957755db0a@skiblack.com>
	<200503010851.29160.mm@mewes.tv>
Message-ID: <974294d725965a6afdbf5c8bd1493c4b@skiblack.com>

On Mar 1, 2005, at 2:51 AM, Martin Mewes wrote:

> Hi Bryan,
>
> no need to send a post to the list _and_ a cc to me as I am reading the
> list :-)

Oops, sorry, I thought I had changed the To address :-(
>
> Bryan Blackwell <bryan at skiblack.com> wrote :
>
>> Majordomo doesn't (by default anyway) store its sent messages in an
>> mbox.  My archives are essentially a directory with all the digests.
>> You can see one of the digests here:
>>
>> http://www.corvair.org/chapters/test/v02.n4928.txt
>
> As far as I can see you should provide a real mbox where eMails are
> stored with full headers. If you do not have one, you can only re-post
> them to the new mailman-list, but I am unsure about that.
>
Nope, no mbox.  Re-posting won't work since I don't have the individual 
posts.  Looks like I may end up writing something, it just surprises me 
that no one else has had this problem and posted a solution - this is 
the default Majordomo archiving mechanism.  I guess all the folks who 
really wanted web archives had already converted to a real archiver and 
worked from that.

--Bryan



From ip at brunny.com  Wed Mar  2 02:30:34 2005
From: ip at brunny.com (Iain Pople)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 12:30:34 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] performance tuning for sendmail and local users
Message-ID: <d034qf$ai7$1@sea.gmane.org>

Hi,

I am setting up a Mailman instance that will deliver to around 10,000 
local users. Can anyone suggest appropriate settings for Mailman and 
Sendmail to optimize performance?

Specifically I am interested in suggestions for the following Mailman 
options:

SMTP_MAX_RCPTS
SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION
MAX_DELIVERY_THREADS

thanks, Iain.



From Freedom_Lover at pobox.com  Wed Mar  2 02:46:44 2005
From: Freedom_Lover at pobox.com (Todd)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 20:46:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2 initial config problems (virtual hosts
	andpermissions)
In-Reply-To: <529JcaR314160S07.1109699692@uwdvg007.cms.usa.net>
References: <529JcaR314160S07.1109699692@uwdvg007.cms.usa.net>
Message-ID: <20050302014644.GC26827@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

FH wrote:
> ------ Original Message ------
> Received: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:30:31 PM EST
> From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
> To: FH <fhouston at usa.net>, <mailman-users at python.org>
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] 2 initial config problems (virtual hosts
> andpermissions)
>
...
>> Have you tried bin/check_perms?
>
> Yep.  Here's a test run to show you what's going on:
>
> # ls -al data
> total 44
> drwxrwsr-x   2 root     mailman      512 Mar  1 11:25 ./
> drwxrwsr-x  20 root     mailman      512 Feb 28 16:02 ../
> -rw-r-----   1 root     mailman       41 Feb 28 16:22 adm.pw
> -rw-rw----   1 mailman  mailman     1165 Mar  1 11:25 aliases
> -rw-r-----   1 mailman  mailman        0 Mar  1 11:25 aliases.dir
> -rw-r-----   1 mailman  mailman     1024 Mar  1 11:25 aliases.pag
> -rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman       10 Feb 28 16:07 last_mailman_version
> -rw-rw----   1 mailman  mailman        5 Feb 28 16:21 master-qrunner.pid
> -rw-r--r--   1 root     mailman    14110 Feb 28 16:02 sitelist.cfg
>
> # bin/check_perms 
> No problems found

Unfortunately, check_perms won't catch the permission problem with the
alias database file(s).  You want aliases.dir and aliases.pag to be
group writable.  All the alias files should be owned by mailman and be
in group mailman.  Then postalias should work and you'll be able to
create lists from the web.

README.POSTFIX doesn't mention this, though I've found it to be
important.  I'll attach a small patch that makes check_perms catch
this and README.POSTFIX be more explicit. 

A Few things to note about this patch is that I made it against CVS
back in January of 2004 and posted it here then.  It may or may not
apply cleanly to 2.1.5 or the forthcoming 2.1.6.  Also, I'm used to
dealing with db databases (.db) instead of dbm databases (.dir and
.pag), and the code to check perms assumes db instead of dbm, so
you'll be on your own to fix those file perms even with a patch like
this.

-- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
Liberty is the only thing you cannot have unless you are willing to
give it to others.
    -- William Allen White  -  1940

-------------- next part --------------
Index: README.POSTFIX
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/README.POSTFIX,v
retrieving revision 2.17
diff -u -r2.17 README.POSTFIX
--- README.POSTFIX	14 Sep 2003 04:58:35 -0000	2.17
+++ README.POSTFIX	15 Jan 2004 04:02:23 -0000
@@ -76,11 +76,12 @@
       % bin/genaliases
 
       Make sure that the owner of the data/aliases and data/aliases.db
-      file is `mailman' and that the group owner for those files is
-      `mailman'.  E.g.:
+      file is `mailman', that the group owner for those files is
+      `mailman', and that both files are group writable.  E.g.:
 
       % su
       % chown mailman:mailman data/aliases*
+      % chmod g+w data/aliases*
 
     - Hack your Postfix's main.cf file to include the following path
       in your alias_maps variable:
Index: Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py,v
retrieving revision 2.22
diff -u -r2.22 Postfix.py
--- Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py	14 Sep 2003 04:41:32 -0000	2.22
+++ Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py	15 Jan 2004 04:02:23 -0000
@@ -339,12 +339,21 @@
                 owner = pwd.getpwuid(stat[ST_UID])[0]
             except KeyError:
                 owner = 'uid %d' % stat[ST_UID]
-            print _('%(dbfile)s owned by %(owner)s (must be owned by %(user)s')
+            print _('%(dbfile)s owned by %(owner)s (must be owned by %(user)s'),
             state.ERRORS += 1
             if state.FIX:
                 print _('(fixing)')
                 uid = pwd.getpwnam(user)[2]
                 gid = grp.getgrnam(mm_cfg.MAILMAN_GROUP)[2]
                 os.chown(dbfile, uid, gid)
+            else:
+                print
+        if stat and (stat[ST_MODE] & targetmode) <> targetmode:
+            state.ERRORS += 1
+            octmode = oct(stat[ST_MODE])
+            print _('%(dbfile)s permissions must be 066x (got %(octmode)s)'),
+            if state.FIX:
+                print _('(fixing)')
+                os.chmod(dbfile, stat[ST_MODE] | targetmode)
             else:
                 print
-------------- next part --------------
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From cpz at tuunq.com  Wed Mar  2 02:54:40 2005
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 17:54:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2 initial config problems (virtual hosts
	andpermissions)
In-Reply-To: <20050302014644.GC26827@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org> from Todd at
	"Mar 1, 2005 08:46:44 pm"
Message-ID: <20050302015440.60F5C7AE@mail.tuunq.com>


I've successfully configured 2.1.5 to do virtual domains w/ postfix. The
patches required a little tweeking to install, and the description of
how things operate leaves someting to be desired.  If the dieties are
with me this week, I'll diff my code against 2.1.5 release and post 
the results.

z!


From dave at boost-consulting.com  Wed Mar  2 01:30:14 2005
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 19:30:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Inconsistent post approval options
Message-ID: <u650aj3e1.fsf@boost-consulting.com>


From Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu  Wed Mar  2 12:23:38 2005
From: Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu (Young, Darren)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 05:23:38 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman/data directory
Message-ID: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E1812E8@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>

What are the heldmsg files in the Mailman data directory? They all seem
to be held messages for lists, yes?

On that note, the file in the lists/<listname> directory, called
request.pck, is that a pointer to all of those files specific to that
list?

Reason I ask, the data directory on our server has 147,000 files in it
(and it's getting rather large). List admins/moderators have this
tendency of not tending to pending requests so it seems that what all
those are. If so, what's the process to manually purge those?

-------------------------------------------------------------
| Darren Young              | http://www.chicagogsb.edu     |
| Senior UNIX Administrator | darren.young at chicagogsb.edu   |
| University of Chicago GSB | darren.young at gsb.uchicago.edu |
-------------------------------------------------------------


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Mar  2 11:09:13 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 11:09:13 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] performance tuning for sendmail and
 local users
In-Reply-To: <d034qf$ai7$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <d034qf$ai7$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <p06200718be4b406bde4d@[10.0.1.3]>

At 12:30 PM +1100 2005-03-02, Iain Pople wrote:

>  I am setting up a Mailman instance that will deliver to around 10,000
>  local users. Can anyone suggest appropriate settings for Mailman and
>  Sendmail to optimize performance?

	There are far too many variables in the equation to be able to 
simply throw out some numbers.  Odds are that you're going to have to 
read a number of Mailman FAQ Wizard entries and try some things out 
and see what works for you.

>  Specifically I am interested in suggestions for the following 
>Mailman options:
>
>  SMTP_MAX_RCPTS
>  SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION
>  MAX_DELIVERY_THREADS

	Please go to the FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> and search for 
"performance" and also search for "tuning".  Pay particular attention 
to the entry at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.003.htp> 
You should also take a look at the entries returned by searching for 
"VERP".

	If you want to go further down this road, beg borrow or steal a 
copy of Nick Christenson's book "Sendmail Performance Tuning".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu  Wed Mar  2 14:53:26 2005
From: Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu (Young, Darren)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 07:53:26 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Safe Archive Clean
Message-ID: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E1812F0@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>

Couple questions on archiving.

First, have some lists that archives exist for that I need to remove. We
don't support archiving so I need to blast them. What's the "safe" way
to do this?

On that note (we don't support archiving), I've disabled archives on all
lists on our server (via withlist), have set DEFAULT_ARCHIVE = Off &
ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX to -1 in Defaults.py. Additionally, I removed the
archive option from the UI via Defaults.py as well.

Now, what I'm finding is that if a list has content filtering disabled,
or set to allow other MIME types through (such as HTML) and if a member
is of type digest and they have the plain option enabled for digests,
they receive a message in their digest with a URL of where they can see
a copy of the original message. The URL included has a pipermail address
in it. On the server, the file was placed in that directory however I
have pipermail disabled (since we don't support archives). Any way to
disable this part or do I just need to wipe those archived files?

-------------------------------------------------------------
| Darren Young              | http://www.chicagogsb.edu     |
| Senior UNIX Administrator | darren.young at chicagogsb.edu   |
| University of Chicago GSB | darren.young at gsb.uchicago.edu |
-------------------------------------------------------------


From david at midrange.com  Wed Mar  2 17:03:37 2005
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 10:03:37 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-members allowed to post!
Message-ID: <d04nrm$vch$1@sea.gmane.org>

Folks:

I have a serious problem here that I can't seem to figure out.  I've 
been running Mailman for a very long time and have never seen this 
behavior before.

A person is posting messages via GMane, but they are not subscribed to 
the list.  However, their messages are being allowed to post!

I have my list configured with ...

generic_nonmember_action = hold
accept_these_nonmembers = <empty>
default_member_moderation = yes
member_moderation_action = hold

As you can see from this post log entry, the posting was accepted ...

Mar 02 09:26:10 2005 (28195) post to rpg400-l from pearlsoft at xxxxxxxxx, 
size=2570, message-id=<d04kvp$kot$1 at sea.gmane.org>, success

But 'pearlsoft at xxxxxxxxx' is not subscribed to any of my lists.

If I send a message from one of my own email addresses that isn't 
subscribed, it's held as it should be.

Any thoughts on how this can happen?

Thanks!

david

-- 
David Gibbs
david at midrange.com

Receipt of this message does not grant you permission to send me 
Unsolicited Commercial Email



From karlkras at comcast.net  Wed Mar  2 18:28:40 2005
From: karlkras at comcast.net (karlkras at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 17:28:40 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender Filters
Message-ID: <030220051728.18869.4225F7C800017D71000049B522069984999C0E9D05049D0E05@comcast.net>

I'm configuring a 'newsletter' list so all of the standard members are flagged as moderated and, since I don't want to allow them to post messages to the list, I would like such messages to be sent to the moderator to be considered while sending a "rejection" notice back to the member notifying of this. 

>From my interpretation of the configuration interface what I would really like is a hybrid between member_moderation_action = 'reject' && 'hold' but this wouldn't appear possible. i.e., I'd like to be able to hold the message for approval by the list moderators, while automatically rejecting the message by sending a bounce notice to the post's author.

Is there another not so obvious way to accomplish this?

regards,
Karl


From fhouston at usa.net  Wed Mar  2 18:45:18 2005
From: fhouston at usa.net (FH)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 12:45:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2 initial config problems SOLVED
Message-ID: <828JcBRts5568S10.1109785518@cmsweb10.cms.usa.net>

------ Original Message ------
Received: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 08:47:27 PM EST
From: Todd <Freedom_Lover at pobox.com>
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] 2 initial config problems (virtual hosts
andpermissions)

> 
> Unfortunately, check_perms won't catch the permission problem with the
> alias database file(s).  You want aliases.dir and aliases.pag to be
> group writable.  All the alias files should be owned by mailman and be
> in group mailman.  Then postalias should work and you'll be able to
> create lists from the web.
> 



and 



------ Original Message ------
Received: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 03:51:08 PM EST
From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] 2 initial config problems (virtual
hostsandpermissions)

> 
> Mailman's security and permissions are based on the group. You will
> note that both the mailman/ and mailman/data directories are group
> "rws" group mailman, so the scripts which are running under group
> 'mailman' as set by the cgi-bin wrapper can do their things OK, but it
> seems that Postfix's postalias command wants the executing user (not
> group) to own the aliases file.
> 


Thanks for the help everyone I seem to be in business now.  Both problems were
related to the group ownership/permissions of the alias files.  I never did
find out how/why aliases kept reverting back to root.  It doesn't seem to be
happening now but I'll keep an eye on it.




From brian at emwd.com  Thu Mar  3 00:23:02 2005
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 18:23:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachment URL question in Archive Page
Message-ID: <DCEKLFLMFAILGNHKLNEPIEEAEPAA.brian@emwd.com>

Hi All:

I am running Mailman 2.1.5p1 under cPanel.

I have question on the URL that shows up for a scrubbed attachment on the
Archive page. Right now the URL shows up in this format:

Url : /pipermail/listname/attachments/20050302/b37e3e52/0001.gif

How can I change this to:

Url :
http://host_name/pipermail/listname/attachments/20050302/b37e3e52/0001.gif

Host_name being the virtual host name of the list. Please help. Thanks.

Have a great day.

Kind regards,
Brian Carpenter
Emerging Markets Web Design, LLC
www.emwd.com




From pjh42 at comcast.net  Thu Mar  3 00:42:08 2005
From: pjh42 at comcast.net (Pete Holsberg)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 18:42:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need help with "content filtering"
Message-ID: <42264F50.6050707@comcast.net>

I would like for members of the list I run to be able to 
send HTML-encoded emails and any attachments except pictures.

"Remove message attachments that have a matching content 
type" contains:
image

"Remove message attachments that don't have a matching 
content type" contains:
multipart/mixed
multipart/alternative
text/plain
text/html

"Should Mailman convert text/html parts to plain text?" is NO

As a test I copied an HTML file that was open in Word (it 
contained a single line), pasted it into Outlook (set for 
HTML) and sent it to my list. I got the following repsonse:

"The attached message matched the 
4sam-4seasonsatmapleton.org mailing
list's content filtering rules and was prevented from being 
forwarded
on to the list membership.  You are receiving the only 
remaining copy
of the discarded message."

One of the attachments contained this:

BODY { MARGIN-TOP: 25px; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 25px; 
COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY:
Arial, Helvetica } P.msoNormal { MARGIN-TOP: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 
10pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px;
COLOR: #ffffcc; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica, "Times New Roman" } 
LI.msoNormal { MARGIN-TOP:
0px; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px; COLOR: #ffffcc; 
FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica, "Times New
Roman" }

   Sunday, April 10, 2005

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks.


From minfrin at sharp.fm  Thu Mar  3 00:49:21 2005
From: minfrin at sharp.fm (Graham Leggett)
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 01:49:21 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting a list - how is this possible?
Message-ID: <42265101.3030401@sharp.fm>

Hi all,

I created a list using my new mailman installation, and due to 
permission problems it did not create the list correctly.

I now want to delete the list so that I can try and create it again - 
but this functionality seems to be missing from mailman, I cannot find a 
delete list option anywhere, or I'm looking in the wrong place.

I figured the rmlist option in the cgi-bin directory might do what I 
want, but all it gave me was the cryptic and meaningless message "You're 
being a sneaky list owner!", which leaves me no nearer to enlightenment 
on what method should be used to delete a list.

Any ideas?

Regards,
Graham
--

From david at midrange.com  Thu Mar  3 01:11:47 2005
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 18:11:47 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Deleting a list - how is this possible?
In-Reply-To: <42265101.3030401@sharp.fm>
References: <42265101.3030401@sharp.fm>
Message-ID: <d05kf9$adc$1@sea.gmane.org>

Graham Leggett wrote:
> I now want to delete the list so that I can try and create it again - 
> but this functionality seems to be missing from mailman, I cannot find a 
> delete list option anywhere, or I'm looking in the wrong place.

Try using the rmlist command.



From minfrin at sharp.fm  Thu Mar  3 01:14:09 2005
From: minfrin at sharp.fm (Graham Leggett)
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 02:14:09 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission problems cause postfix postalias error
Message-ID: <422656D1.3000605@sharp.fm>

Hi all,

After creating a list, mailman v2.1.5 bombs out like so:

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/var/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
     main()
   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 55, in main
     process_request(doc, cgidata)
   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 226, in process_request
     sys.modules[modname].create(mlist, cgi=1)
   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 232, in create
     _update_maps()
   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 53, in _update_maps
     raise RuntimeError, msg % (acmd, status, errstr)
RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias 
/var/mailman/data/aliases (status: 1, Operation not permitted)

The postfix logs complain of "permission denied" accessing data/aliases.

I have run the bin/check_perm script, but to no avail. Does anybody know 
what should be done to make this work? I tried adding the postfix user 
to the mailman group, but it didn't work.

Regards,
Graham
--

From Freedom_Lover at pobox.com  Thu Mar  3 02:30:32 2005
From: Freedom_Lover at pobox.com (Todd)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 20:30:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission problems cause postfix postalias error
In-Reply-To: <422656D1.3000605@sharp.fm>
References: <422656D1.3000605@sharp.fm>
Message-ID: <20050303013032.GF26827@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Graham Leggett wrote:
> After creating a list, mailman v2.1.5 bombs out like so:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/var/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
>     main()
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 55, in main
>     process_request(doc, cgidata)
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 226, in process_request
>     sys.modules[modname].create(mlist, cgi=1)
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 232, in create
>     _update_maps()
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 53, in _update_maps
>     raise RuntimeError, msg % (acmd, status, errstr)
> RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias 
> /var/mailman/data/aliases (status: 1, Operation not permitted)
>
> The postfix logs complain of "permission denied" accessing data/aliases.
>
> I have run the bin/check_perm script, but to no avail. Does anybody know 
> what should be done to make this work? I tried adding the postfix user 
> to the mailman group, but it didn't work.

See: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.009.htp

- -- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program.
    -- Dr. Milton Friedman, Nobel-Prize-winning economist.

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From bruce at bpd.net  Thu Mar  3 04:59:42 2005
From: bruce at bpd.net (Bruce N. Audie)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 22:59:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting a list - how is this possible?
In-Reply-To: <42265101.3030401@sharp.fm>
Message-ID: <003a01c51fa5$6ea243c0$6501017d@biddefordpd.local>

This was Dan Phillips' answer to my question about this:

Put "OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = Yes" in your mm_cfg.py and run 
bin/mailmanctl restart

================================
This will add a delete option to the web GUI.

Bruce N. Audie


-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+bruce=bpd.net at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+bruce=bpd.net at python.org] On Behalf Of Graham
Leggett
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 6:49 PM
To: 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting a list - how is this possible?


Hi all,

I created a list using my new mailman installation, and due to 
permission problems it did not create the list correctly.

I now want to delete the list so that I can try and create it again - 
but this functionality seems to be missing from mailman, I cannot find a 
delete list option anywhere, or I'm looking in the wrong place.

I figured the rmlist option in the cgi-bin directory might do what I 
want, but all it gave me was the cryptic and meaningless message "You're 
being a sneaky list owner!", which leaves me no nearer to enlightenment 
on what method should be used to delete a list.

Any ideas?

Regards,
Graham
--




From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar  3 06:19:42 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 21:19:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting a list - how is this possible?
In-Reply-To: <42265101.3030401@sharp.fm>
Message-ID: <PC1741200503022119420687d05f30f9@msapiro>

Graham Leggett wrote:
>
>I figured the rmlist option in the cgi-bin directory might do what I 
>want, but all it gave me was the cryptic and meaningless message "You're 
>being a sneaky list owner!", which leaves me no nearer to enlightenment 
>on what method should be used to delete a list.

bin/rmlist --help

The cgi-bin/rmlist script is for the web interface. It is only made
available in the web interface and only works if you set

OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = Yes

in mm_cfg.py. If you execute it directly without this setting, it
thinks you're trying to "trick" it and gives you the "sneaky
listowner" message.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dtownhome at earthlink.net  Thu Mar  3 08:56:16 2005
From: dtownhome at earthlink.net (Don)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 05 02:56:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuring mailman
Message-ID: <E1D6lBb-00031Z-00@pop-a065d23.pas.sa.earthlink.net>


Hi everyone;

I am a new user of Mailman on my web site.

If all goes as planed, numerous mailing lists will need to be set up that 
will all probably need to be configured identical except for the names of 
each list.

Instead of using all the original default settings, I'd like to 
customize.  Is there an (easy) way to be able to modify the defaults to 
spare myself the 'recreating / repeating of generating identical 
settings' the way I like them, and thus the time investment?

Yes I found some info in the faq... but I'm totally unfamiliar with 
playing with the innards of programs and furthermore am using an old Mac. 
 I'm guessing it might be a bit difficult to open a program running in 
Red Hat Linux using a Mac.

Ideas?

Thanks
Don


From minfrin at sharp.fm  Thu Mar  3 09:32:32 2005
From: minfrin at sharp.fm (Graham Leggett)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 10:32:32 +0200 (SAST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission problems cause postfix postalias error
In-Reply-To: <20050303013032.GF26827@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
References: <422656D1.3000605@sharp.fm>
	<20050303013032.GF26827@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <13217.196.8.104.37.1109838752.squirrel@www.sharp.fm>

Todd said:

>> I have run the bin/check_perm script, but to no avail. Does anybody know
>> what should be done to make this work? I tried adding the postfix user
>> to the mailman group, but it didn't work.
>
> See: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.009.htp

This FAQ entry repeats the docs - I tried setting the permissions to
"mailman:mailman" but this did not work either.

There seem to be a few problems at work:

- The check_perms script is setting the ownership of the files to "root",
when the docs say they should be "mailman".

- Even when set to mailman:mailman, postalias still throws an error.

Something strange that I have found is that if you delete the *.db files,
postalias seems to recreate them, but these *.db files do not map the
permissions of the original alias files (the virtual-mailman.db file is
owned by "apache" for example).

Can anybody send me an "ls -al" from a working mailman setup, so that I
can see what the permissions should look like?

Regards,
Graham
--



From jwt at onjapan.net  Thu Mar  3 09:52:39 2005
From: jwt at onjapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 17:52:39 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuring mailman
In-Reply-To: <E1D6lBb-00031Z-00@pop-a065d23.pas.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1D6lBb-00031Z-00@pop-a065d23.pas.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <866a5af5680695c59f2005e075f5ecbf@onjapan.net>

On Mar 3, 2005, at 16:56, Don wrote:

> Instead of using all the original default settings, I'd like to
> customize.  Is there an (easy) way to be able to modify the defaults to
> spare myself the 'recreating / repeating of generating identical
> settings' the way I like them, and thus the time investment?

Look through the many settings and their documentation in 
~mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py.  Copy the variables you are interested in 
customizing to your mm_cfg.py file and modify them there to override 
the "defaults" so they are the values you desire for a "standard" list 
in your installation.

You can further fine tune list configurations by using 
~mailman/bin/config_list to help you "clone" settings from one list to 
another.  (Run '~mailman/bin/config_list --help' to see how you can use 
the -o switch to write out a text configuration that can be edited and 
then read in to another list with the -i switch.)



-- 
Jim Tittsler             http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship          http://Starship.Python.net/
Ringo MUG Tokyo          http://www.ringo.net/rss.html



From dave at boost-consulting.com  Thu Mar  3 14:57:23 2005
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 08:57:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Inconsistent post approval options
References: <u650aj3e1.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <u6508bzng.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

David Abrahams <dave at boost-consulting.com> writes:

> Hi,
>
> We have Mailman set up to moderate everyone's first posting.
> Normally, the approval screen has a checkbox at the bottom that says
> something like "uncheck this poster's moderation bit."  Normally,
> moderators check that box as they approve each poster's first posting.
> But occasionally, I see something else.  See the enclosed for an
> example.  Can anyone explain what it means when that happens?

Fantastic; this list strips enclosures.
You can see the page at http://www.luannocracy.com/mailman.html

Please help solve this mystery!

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From mary at bgumail.bgu.ac.il  Thu Mar  3 15:35:14 2005
From: mary at bgumail.bgu.ac.il (Marina Markus)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 16:35:14 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to make different versions of an email address
	look equivalent?
Message-ID: <20050303141728.C070933E62@smtp2.bgu.ac.il>

 
Hello,
 
I am looking for a solution of the following problem. Email users at our
main email server can use two different versions of an email address - one
with the name of the server and one without:
 
user at bgu.ac.il and user at bgumail.bgu.ac.il
 
Is there any easy way to inform Mailmain that these two addresses are in
fact the same (sort of sender address aliasing) ?
Otherwise, a user who is subscribed with the long version of address, and
sends mail with the short version in "From", will have his message rejected
like one from a non-member etc. 
 
Thank you in advance for any idea,
 
Marina Markus
Ben-Gurion University Computer Center
=============================
mary at bgu.ac.il


From Freedom_Lover at pobox.com  Thu Mar  3 15:34:36 2005
From: Freedom_Lover at pobox.com (Todd)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 09:34:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission problems cause postfix postalias error
In-Reply-To: <13217.196.8.104.37.1109838752.squirrel@www.sharp.fm>
References: <422656D1.3000605@sharp.fm>
	<20050303013032.GF26827@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<13217.196.8.104.37.1109838752.squirrel@www.sharp.fm>
Message-ID: <20050303143436.GI26827@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Graham Leggett wrote:
> Todd said:
[...]
>> See: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.009.htp
>
> This FAQ entry repeats the docs - I tried setting the permissions to
> "mailman:mailman" but this did not work either.

Partly, but it adds an important step as well:

    You should also ensure that data/aliases and data/aliases.db are
    group writable. E.g.:

        % chmod 0664 data/aliases*

Did you catch that part and try it?

> Can anybody send me an "ls -al" from a working mailman setup, so
> that I can see what the permissions should look like?

- -rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman 5.4K Mar  3 09:32 data/aliases
- -rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman  12K Mar  3 09:32 data/aliases.db

- -- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
Thank God we don't get all the government we pay for.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1rc2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkInIHwmGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1rS9gCg9Rw+iXZjynyjtRniK5DnslXzGNUAoNx1oHRI
sJLrelzXESTyYs+PWGjE
=f+dP
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Mar  3 15:58:11 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 15:58:11 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to make different versions of an
	email address 	look equivalent?
In-Reply-To: <20050303141728.C070933E62@smtp2.bgu.ac.il>
References: <20050303141728.C070933E62@smtp2.bgu.ac.il>
Message-ID: <p0620072fbe4cd612f228@[10.0.1.3]>

At 4:35 PM +0200 2005-03-03, Marina Markus wrote:

>  Is there any easy way to inform Mailmain that these two addresses are in
>  fact the same (sort of sender address aliasing) ?

	Within Mailman?  No.  You should fix that at the MTA.  Either fix 
it at the sending MTA, so that all addresses are canonicalized into 
one form or the other, or fix it on the MTA where Mailman is running 
so that all addresses are canonicalized.

>  Otherwise, a user who is subscribed with the long version of address, and
>  sends mail with the short version in "From", will have his message rejected
>  like one from a non-member etc.

	Alternatively, have the affected parties subscribe with both 
addresses, and then set one of them to NOMAIL.  This will allow them 
to post from either address, but they'll only get one copy of posts 
to the mailing list.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Mar  3 15:55:59 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 15:55:59 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Inconsistent post approval options
In-Reply-To: <u6508bzng.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
References: <u650aj3e1.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
	<u6508bzng.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <p0620072ebe4cd5c9e109@[10.0.1.3]>

At 8:57 AM -0500 2005-03-03, David Abrahams wrote:

>  Fantastic; this list strips enclosures.

	Yup.  That's intentional.

>  You can see the page at http://www.luannocracy.com/mailman.html

	It looks to me like eckhardt at satorlaser.com is not a subscriber 
to the list.  That would explain why there's not moderate bit for you 
to clear for this person.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From idefix at fechner.net  Thu Mar  3 16:55:48 2005
From: idefix at fechner.net (Matthias Fechner)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 16:55:48 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I cannot sync my plainfile with mailman
Message-ID: <20050303155548.GB64952@server.idefix.loc>

Hi,

i tried today to sync a flat file with mailman with the script
bin/sync_members -n -f <file> list

But if i do this i get the errormessage:
Dry run mode
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "bin/sync_members", line 286, in ?
    main()
  File "bin/sync_members", line 259, in main
    s = email.Utils.formataddr((name, addr)).encode(enc, 'replace')
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xfc in position 9: ordinal not in range(128)

It seems, that the programm has problem with german "Umlaute" how can
i fix this?

-- 
Thx
Matthias


From mary at bgumail.bgu.ac.il  Thu Mar  3 17:02:49 2005
From: mary at bgumail.bgu.ac.il (Marina Markus)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 18:02:49 +0200 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to make different versions of anemail 
Message-ID: <20050303154701.7731833E77@smtp2.bgu.ac.il>

 address 	look equivalent?
In-Reply-To: <p0620072fbe4cd612f228@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0503031747130.11454-100000 at sansana.bgu.ac.il>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Hello and thank you, but ...

On Thu, 3 Mar 2005, Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 4:35 PM +0200 2005-03-03, Marina Markus wrote:
> 
> >  Is there any easy way to inform Mailmain that these two addresses are in
> >  fact the same (sort of sender address aliasing) ?
> 
> 	Within Mailman?  No.  You should fix that at the MTA.  Either fix 
> it at the sending MTA, so that all addresses are canonicalized into 
> one form or the other, or fix it on the MTA where Mailman is running 
> so that all addresses are canonicalized.
> 

Just in case you have an idea how to do it in Postfix (at the
server where Mailman is running) - I'd be grateful. Still, it seems not to
help - even if all "long" addresses are translated into "short" by
receiving MTA, people can subscribe with "long" addresses without our
control. 


> >  Otherwise, a user who is subscribed with the long version of address, and
> >  sends mail with the short version in "From", will have his message rejected
> >  like one from a non-member etc.
> 
> 	Alternatively, have the affected parties subscribe with both 
> addresses, and then set one of them to NOMAIL.  This will allow them 
> to post from either address, but they'll only get one copy of posts 
> to the mailing list.
> 

Yes, but I can't force them to subscribe twice - so I'll have to hack the
subscription scripts to write both addresses by myself.

It seems to me anyway that I'll find no ready solution and will have
to change Mailman code. In fact, this is what I did - changed
"isMember(self, member)" in "OldStyleMemberships.py", but this doesn't
always work smooth. 

So I hoped to find some ready recipe I missed in the documentation;
but as I now know it doesn't exist I'll continue to improve my code
hacking.

Thank you!
-Marina



> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
> 
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
> 
>      -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>      Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
> 
>    SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mary%40bgumail.bgu.ac.il
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
> 



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Mar  3 17:10:14 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 17:10:14 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to make different versions of
 anemail
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0503031747130.11454-100000@sansana.bgu.ac.il>
References: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0503031747130.11454-100000@sansana.bgu.ac.il>
Message-ID: <p06200732be4ce68ecf2c@[10.0.1.3]>

At 6:02 PM +0200 2005-03-03, Marina Markus wrote:

>  Just in case you have an idea how to do it in Postfix (at the
>  server where Mailman is running) - I'd be grateful.

	That's a simple matter of using the postfix canonical table.  See 
<http://www.postfix.org/ADDRESS_REWRITING_README.html#canonical>.

>                                                      Still, it seems not to
>  help - even if all "long" addresses are translated into "short" by
>  receiving MTA, people can subscribe with "long" addresses without our
>  control.

	Yup, that's a problem.

>  So I hoped to find some ready recipe I missed in the documentation;
>  but as I now know it doesn't exist I'll continue to improve my code
>  hacking.

	I believe that this is something that they're working on fixing 
in the design work for the upcoming Mailman version 3, but I don't 
know any more about it than that.

	If you can come up with a suitably generalized patch and upload 
that to the Mailman site on SourceForge, that would increase the 
probability that it might get included in a future version of Mailman 
2.x.  Then you wouldn't have to keep maintaining your local patched 
version.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From dave at boost-consulting.com  Thu Mar  3 19:55:27 2005
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 13:55:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Inconsistent post approval options
In-Reply-To: <p0620072ebe4cd5c9e109@[10.0.1.3]> (Brad Knowles's message of
	"Thu, 3 Mar 2005 15:55:59 +0100")
References: <u650aj3e1.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
	<u6508bzng.fsf@boost-consulting.com> <p0620072ebe4cd5c9e109@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <uzmxk7e5c.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> writes:

> At 8:57 AM -0500 2005-03-03, David Abrahams wrote:
>
>>  Fantastic; this list strips enclosures.
>
> 	Yup.  That's intentional.
>
>>  You can see the page at http://www.luannocracy.com/mailman.html
>
> 	It looks to me like eckhardt at satorlaser.com is not a subscriber 
> to the list.  That would explain why there's not moderate bit for you 
> to clear for this person.

Our list is set up so that non-subscribers get automatically rejected
and told they need to subscribe before posting.  Normally we never get
a chance to manually approve (or reject) postings from
non-subscribers.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com


From timzim at timzim.de  Wed Mar  2 14:01:57 2005
From: timzim at timzim.de (timzim at timzim.de)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 14:01:57 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to fix this problem?
Message-ID: <200503021301.j22D1vdd003604@y138.yellow.fastwebserver.de>

Bug in Mailman version 2.1.2

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy
of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what
happened. Thanks!
Traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 68, in run_main
    immediate=1)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py", line 52, in
__init__
    Logger.__init__(self, category, nofail, immediate)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 49, in
__init__
    self.__get_f()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 67, in
__get_f
    1)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/codecs.py", line 566, in open
    file = __builtin__.open(filename, mode, buffering)
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/logs/error'



Python information:

Variable	Value
sys.version	2.3+ (#1, Jan 7 2004, 09:17:35) [GCC 3.3.1 (SuSE Linux)]
sys.executable	/usr/bin/python
sys.prefix	/usr
sys.exec_prefix	/usr
sys.path	/usr
sys.platform	linux2

Environment variables:

Variable	Value
HTTP_COOKIE 	resellerdomainspager_SortReverse=N;
resellerdomainspager_ItemsPerPage=5;
SID=62ecca75e98b6a8f703316f1c6ea7d78
SERVER_SOFTWARE 	Apache/2.0.48 (Linux/SuSE)
SCRIPT_NAME 	/cgi-bin/listinfo
SERVER_SIGNATURE 	
Apache/2.0.48 (Linux/SuSE) Server at y138.yellow.fastwebserver.de Port
80
REQUEST_METHOD 	GET
HTTP_KEEP_ALIVE 	300
SERVER_PROTOCOL 	HTTP/1.1
QUERY_STRING 	
HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET 	ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7
HTTP_USER_AGENT 	Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; de-DE;
rv:1.7.6) Gecko/20050223 Firefox/1.0.1
HTTP_CONNECTION 	keep-alive
SERVER_NAME 	y138.yellow.fastwebserver.de
REMOTE_ADDR 	81.90.37.10
SERVER_PORT 	80
SERVER_ADDR 	217.79.182.138
DOCUMENT_ROOT 	/home/www/confixx/html
PYTHONPATH 	/usr/lib/mailman
SCRIPT_FILENAME 	/home/www/confixx/html/cgi-bin/listinfo
SERVER_ADMIN 	[no address given]
HTTP_HOST 	y138.yellow.fastwebserver.de
REQUEST_URI 	/cgi-bin/listinfo
HTTP_ACCEPT
	text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5
GATEWAY_INTERFACE 	CGI/1.1
REMOTE_PORT 	61938
HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE 	de-de,de;q=0.8,en-us;q=0.5,en;q=0.3
HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING 	gzip,deflate





From noahm at csail.mit.edu  Wed Mar  2 17:27:51 2005
From: noahm at csail.mit.edu (Noah Meyerhans)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 11:27:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with bounce processing
Message-ID: <20050302162751.GA31762@csail.mit.edu>

Hi all.  I'm stumped by a problem I've been having with Mailman 2.1.x
and bounce processing.  A number of users have recently had their
subscriptions to several mailing lists disabled due to bounces.
However, I know that their mail is working properly as they're local to
my site and use their mail daily.

Is it possible to see the actual content of the bounces that mailman has
processed?  Like I said, I don't think anybody's mail is actually
bouncing, but clearly Mailman thinks it is.  I need to figure out why so
I can fix this...

Thanks.
noah

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From mary.y.wang at boeing.com  Wed Mar  2 17:37:51 2005
From: mary.y.wang at boeing.com (Wang, Mary Y)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 08:37:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] The unsubscribe users are STILL receiving the
	mailing list password reminders messages
Message-ID: <8C5D1947714C254FBA98D176B86DEAB838EAC8@XCH-SW-3V1.sw.nos.boeing.com>

Hi,
 
I'm using mailman-2.0.6-1 on a Redhat 7.2 box.  Recently, few ex-mailing
list subscribers complained about that they have already unsubscribe
those mailing lists, but yet they still received the monthly password
reminder email message.  
 
I know I'm using an older version of mailman, and I don't have time to
install the later version.  How do I remove those users from the monthly
password reminder email message broadcast.  Also why does the
unsubscribe logic IS NOT affecting the password reminder logic in
Mailman?
 
Thanks in advance
 
Mary Wang
 

------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------- 
Mary Y. Wang 
Software Engineer 
Phantom Works - Strategic Development & Analysis 
Huntington Beach, CA 
The Boeing Company 
714.372.0836 


 


From jpeavler at mindspring.com  Wed Mar  2 18:49:16 2005
From: jpeavler at mindspring.com (Jim Peavler)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 10:49:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender Filters
In-Reply-To: <030220051728.18869.4225F7C800017D71000049B522069984999C0E9D05049D0E05@comcast.net>
References: <030220051728.18869.4225F7C800017D71000049B522069984999C0E9D05049D0E05@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <c5ac6ea8b8cf168ef5ad773728298bc2@mindspring.com>

I have been asked to move a list currently being served on listserv to 
Mailman. How do a transfer the subscriber list over? How do I transfer 
the archives?

I guess I need to know the format of these things and what, if 
anything, needs to be done to make them work in the new environment.

Sorry is this is a dumb question, but I can't find anything on it in 
the FAQ.


Jim Peavler
jmp at peavler.org



From jocke at nomell.se  Wed Mar  2 20:11:12 2005
From: jocke at nomell.se (Joakim Nomell)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 20:11:12 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with a list
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0503022007400.31151-100000@nefertite.nomell.se>

Hi all. Everything works fine here. Have about 40 lists with over 600 
members. Everyone works. I have all lists configured to set reply-to "this 
list" and to strip reply-to headers before sending them out to the lists.

Suddenly one listed started to behave strange. It had correct reply-to 
header but instead of having the list name and address on the to-line, it 
put the members name there. But when replying, the client used the 
repply-to header and it worked anyway. But why does it change my to-lines 
on one list? All lists have the smae settings except from subscribe policy 
on some closed lists. I solved the problem by deleting the list and create 
it again but that's not an optimal solution =(

Hope someone can give me a hint.

-- 
___________________________________________________________________
Joakim Nomell     Phn: +46 70 771 31 00      MSN : joakim at nomell.nu
Unix engineer     Fax: +46 70 711 31 00      Web : http://nomell.se
-------------------------------------------------------------------

* When seeking love gives nothing, have found love gives all *



From twill at ekns.net  Thu Mar  3 04:25:02 2005
From: twill at ekns.net (Troy Williams)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 22:25:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newbie question
Message-ID: <000001c51fa0$9f0dd740$cb0780cd@SCS>

I want to use Mailman and need to set it up quick.  What is the best
resource for guiding me through the setup?  The hosting service I use is
configured for it, all I need to do is provide the website but am having
problems getting started.  Any suggestions?
 
Thanks,
Troy

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.679 / Virus Database: 441 - Release Date: 5/7/2004
 


From mckemie at spamcop.net  Thu Mar  3 13:27:40 2005
From: mckemie at spamcop.net (Willie McKemie)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 06:27:40 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listowners.org
Message-ID: <20050303122740.GG935@mckemie.org>

Listowners.org has been down (to my knowledge) for several days.  Since 
I need some help with a hosted mailman problem, should I wait for 
listowners.org to become available again or should I join the 
developer's list?

The problem? Extracting subscribers lists.

-- 
Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Linux system uptime  248 days 19 hours 33 minutes


From ACrosman at afsc.org  Thu Mar  3 20:45:32 2005
From: ACrosman at afsc.org (Aaron Crosman)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 14:45:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spanish version option page
Message-ID: <B91F108ADD81414AB2C9CB7449D3CEC79FD8D6@DELTA.AFSC.local>

I'm running Mailman 2.1.4 on SuSE 9.1, using the SuSE package.  I have one user using the Spanish language version of Mailman.  Almost everything is setup, however today we noticed that the user options page of the Spanish language version is not working properly at all (everything is fine if you look at the English lists).

It looks like the raw Python code is being displayed, instead of processed by the server.  For example the page starts:
 Est? suscrito a la lista con la direcci?n {'WidgetArray': , 'Errors': , 'PasswordBox': , 'DELIVERED_BY': 'mailman.jpg', 'DefinitionList': , 'Strikeout': , 'options_page': , 'message': '', 'Document': , 'QuotedContainer': , 'replacements': {'': '

Has anyone else run into a similar problem?  If someone else running SuSE's package could check to see if they have similar problems it would be very helpful.  I'm open to the idea that at some point I may have damaged the source code (they noticed several typos in the past that I fixed, although none on the user options, to my knowledge this is the first use of the page), but before I replace it I thought I would check to see if others have a similar problem.

Is it likely that I could download the 2.1.4 options page from the CVS tree and just swap it in?  If so what file would I be going after?

Thanks for any help.
Aaron


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Mar  3 20:34:45 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 20:34:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to fix this problem?
In-Reply-To: <200503021301.j22D1vdd003604@y138.yellow.fastwebserver.de>
References: <200503021301.j22D1vdd003604@y138.yellow.fastwebserver.de>
Message-ID: <p06200734be4d173c37f0@[10.0.1.3]>

At 2:01 PM +0100 2005-03-02, timzim at timzim.de wrote:

>      file = __builtin__.open(filename, mode, buffering)
>  IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/logs/error'

	There's your problem.  Check your file permissions.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Mar  3 20:35:40 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 20:35:40 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with bounce processing
In-Reply-To: <20050302162751.GA31762@csail.mit.edu>
References: <20050302162751.GA31762@csail.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <p06200735be4d175d3fbf@[10.0.1.3]>

At 11:27 AM -0500 2005-03-02, Noah Meyerhans wrote:

>  Is it possible to see the actual content of the bounces that mailman has
>  processed?

	Unfortunately, not.

>              Like I said, I don't think anybody's mail is actually
>  bouncing, but clearly Mailman thinks it is.  I need to figure out why so
>  I can fix this...

	The first thing to do is to look in the Mailman log files under 
/usr/local/mailman/logs/.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Mar  3 20:45:55 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 20:45:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender Filters
In-Reply-To: <c5ac6ea8b8cf168ef5ad773728298bc2@mindspring.com>
References: <030220051728.18869.4225F7C800017D71000049B522069984999C0E9D05049D
	0E05@comcast.net> <c5ac6ea8b8cf168ef5ad773728298bc2@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <p06200736be4d17bb55ca@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:49 AM -0700 2005-03-02, Jim Peavler wrote:

>  I have been asked to move a list currently being served on listserv
>  to Mailman.  How do a transfer the subscriber list over?

	That's largely going to depend on Listserv.

>                                                            How do I
>  transfer the archives?

	I don't know how Listserv stores their archives.  Mailman uses 
7th edition "mbox" format files, which can be imported using the 
"arch" tool.  See 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.009.htp> 
and 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp>.

>  I guess I need to know the format of these things and what, if anything,
>  needs to be done to make them work in the new environment.

	I don't know that anyone has written a step-by-step guide to 
importing Listserv mailing lists.  If you find or create such a 
thing, please let us know.


	In the meanwhile, I recommend that you read the documentation at 
<http://www.list.org/docs.html> for List Managers and Site 
Administrators, check the searchable FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py>, and search the archives 
of the mailman-users mailing list as shown at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.018.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Mar  3 20:46:52 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 20:46:52 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newbie question
In-Reply-To: <000001c51fa0$9f0dd740$cb0780cd@SCS>
References: <000001c51fa0$9f0dd740$cb0780cd@SCS>
Message-ID: <p06200737be4d1a20e570@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:25 PM -0500 2005-03-02, Troy Williams wrote:

>  I want to use Mailman and need to set it up quick.  What is the best
>  resource for guiding me through the setup?  The hosting service I use is
>  configured for it, all I need to do is provide the website but am having
>  problems getting started.  Any suggestions?

	I recommend that you read the documentation at 
<http://www.list.org/docs.html> for List Managers and Site 
Administrators, check the searchable FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py>, and search the archives 
of the mailman-users mailing list as shown at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.018.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Mar  3 20:54:39 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 20:54:39 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listowners.org
In-Reply-To: <20050303122740.GG935@mckemie.org>
References: <20050303122740.GG935@mckemie.org>
Message-ID: <p06200738be4d1a32e998@[10.0.1.3]>

At 6:27 AM -0600 2005-03-03, Willie McKemie wrote:

>  Listowners.org has been down (to my knowledge) for several days.

	It's been down a lot longer than that.  See 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.025.htp>.

>                                                             Since
>  I need some help with a hosted mailman problem, should I wait for
>  listowners.org to become available again or should I join the
>  developer's list?

	I wouldn't recommend waiting on listowner.org.

>  The problem? Extracting subscribers lists.

	I presume that the problem can't be resolved with list_members 
and the other commands at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.009.htp>?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Thu Mar  3 21:24:50 2005
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 12:24:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listowners.org
In-Reply-To: <p06200738be4d1a32e998@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <20050303122740.GG935@mckemie.org>
	<p06200738be4d1a32e998@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <e0be6f9c4d3695ab3bb90536bc87fea1@plaidworks.com>

is the owner of listowerns.org around? if so, drop me a note, will you?  
I'm willing to take it over and operate it.


On Mar 3, 2005, at 11:54 AM, Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 6:27 AM -0600 2005-03-03, Willie McKemie wrote:
>
>>  Listowners.org has been down (to my knowledge) for several days.
>
> 	It's been down a lot longer than that.  See  
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
> req=show&file=faq01.025.htp>.
>
>>                                                             Since
>>  I need some help with a hosted mailman problem, should I wait for
>>  listowners.org to become available again or should I join the
>>  developer's list?
>
> 	I wouldn't recommend waiting on listowner.org.
>
>>  The problem? Extracting subscribers lists.
>
> 	I presume that the problem can't be resolved with list_members and  
> the other commands at  
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
> req=show&file=faq04.009.htp>?
>
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
>
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
>
>     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
>
>   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:  
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:  
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ 
> chuqui%40plaidworks.com
>
> Security Policy:  
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp; 
> file=faq01.027.htp



From BPantejo at citco.com  Thu Mar  3 21:31:04 2005
From: BPantejo at citco.com (Pantejo, Barbara                FTL)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 15:31:04 -0500 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FAQ 5.6 Cannot Find/Receive Bounce Messages
Message-ID: <69654C1963C8F64FA560BCC6ECD12B3A0200FB18@FTL1MSEX01>

There didn't seem to be an answer, posted with Mailman FAQ 5.6 (see below).
I am having the same problem...I have bounce processing turned on, but I'm
not getting any bounce back message back to me (the list administrator when
I send to a non-existent/invalid email. What do I need to do to get bounce
messages sent to the list administrator?

Thanks,
Barbara
====================
5.6. Cannot Find/Receive Bounce Messages
I am trying to review the bounce messages - as with the new SPAM blockers if
you are not on the person's "approved" list you email may not go through. I
cannot seem to get the bounce message that Mailman cannot process - with or
without Mailman bounce processing on. I have tried setting to send the
messages to the list owner, and have set the posting by non-members to be
held and forwarded. I get one or two messages sent to the list admin, but
when I turn off processing and purposely send to a non-existent address - I
receive nothing back in either the master account for the domain, the list
admin account or the posters account. 
What am I doing wrong? 

Thanks in advance 
=====================



From eppinette at ulm.edu  Thu Mar  3 22:00:24 2005
From: eppinette at ulm.edu (Chance Eppinette)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 15:00:24 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman mass removal feature
In-Reply-To: <20050228174325.5B0B21273B@smtp.ulm.edu>
Message-ID: <20050303205437.0D739129ED@smtp.ulm.edu>

Hello,

Does the newer version of Mailman have an option to mass delete the
memberships of a list through the GUI?
I know how to do this from the remove_members command line, but I need this
feature in the GUI for a few list-admins.

Thanks,

Chance Eppinette
Technology Support Manager
ULM Computing Center
eppinette at ulm.edu
318-342-5021 (phone)
318-342-5018 (fax)

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+eppinette=ulm.edu at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+eppinette=ulm.edu at python.org] On Behalf Of
Chance Eppinette
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 11:49 AM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Automated bounce removal

Hello,

I am new to this list, but have been a long-term Mailman user.  My current
Mailman version is 2.0.11

We have a list of over 13000 members.  I have the bounce options set to
remove & notify the administrator when excessive bounces occur for a
subscribed member.
However, the system is not removing the subscribers after the minimum
bounces of 2 occur.

Has anyone encountered this issue and should it be fixed in newer versions?

Thanks,

Chance Eppinette
Technology Support Manager
ULM Computing Center
eppinette at ulm.edu
318-342-5021 (phone)
318-342-5018 (fax)




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Mar  3 22:19:08 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 22:19:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman mass removal feature
In-Reply-To: <20050303205437.0D739129ED@smtp.ulm.edu>
References: <20050303205437.0D739129ED@smtp.ulm.edu>
Message-ID: <p0620073cbe4d2f4edc47@[10.0.1.3]>

At 3:00 PM -0600 2005-03-03, Chance Eppinette wrote:

>  Does the newer version of Mailman have an option to mass delete the
>  memberships of a list through the GUI?

	Mass delete?  No, not that I know of.  There's a Mass subscribe 
function, but not Mass delete.

	You could always save the list configuration, then delete the 
entire list and re-create it.


	There are ways to use scripting to drive a web form (for those 
people who can't get direct access to the command-line tools), but I 
doubt that these are going to be useful for you.

>  I know how to do this from the remove_members command line, but I need this
>  feature in the GUI for a few list-admins.

	If you find out anything that's useful, please let us know.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Mar  3 22:05:14 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 22:05:14 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FAQ 5.6 Cannot Find/Receive Bounce
 Messages
In-Reply-To: <69654C1963C8F64FA560BCC6ECD12B3A0200FB18@FTL1MSEX01>
References: <69654C1963C8F64FA560BCC6ECD12B3A0200FB18@FTL1MSEX01>
Message-ID: <p06200739be4d2b9fff3f@[10.0.1.3]>

At 3:31 PM -0500 2005-03-03, Pantejo, Barbara                FTL wrote:

>  There didn't seem to be an answer, posted with Mailman FAQ 5.6 (see below).

	Questions should not be asked in the FAQ.  I have deleted this entry.

>  I am having the same problem...I have bounce processing turned on, but I'm
>  not getting any bounce back message back to me (the list administrator when
>  I send to a non-existent/invalid email. What do I need to do to get bounce
>  messages sent to the list administrator?

	Mailman has a bounce processing system.  It will try to 
automatically handle all bounces, and anything it can't handle will 
be sent to the list owner.

	So far as I know, there's no way to turn off the bounce 
processing system, or even effectively disable it.  But you should 
see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.024.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From chris.a.adams at state.or.us  Thu Mar  3 22:33:42 2005
From: chris.a.adams at state.or.us (Christopher Adams)
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 13:33:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman mass removal feature
In-Reply-To: <p0620073cbe4d2f4edc47@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <20050303205437.0D739129ED@smtp.ulm.edu>
	<p0620073cbe4d2f4edc47@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <422782B6.8000608@state.or.us>

I may be misinterpreting the request, but what about Mass Removals in 
Membership Managment.

Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 3:00 PM -0600 2005-03-03, Chance Eppinette wrote:
> 
>>  Does the newer version of Mailman have an option to mass delete the
>>  memberships of a list through the GUI?
> 
> 
>     Mass delete?  No, not that I know of.  There's a Mass subscribe 
> function, but not Mass delete.
> 
>     You could always save the list configuration, then delete the entire 
> list and re-create it.
> 
> 
>     There are ways to use scripting to drive a web form (for those 
> people who can't get direct access to the command-line tools), but I 
> doubt that these are going to be useful for you.
> 
>>  I know how to do this from the remove_members command line, but I 
>> need this
>>  feature in the GUI for a few list-admins.
> 
> 
>     If you find out anything that's useful, please let us know.
> 




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Mar  3 22:36:37 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 22:36:37 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman mass removal feature
In-Reply-To: <422782B6.8000608@state.or.us>
References: <20050303205437.0D739129ED@smtp.ulm.edu>
	<p0620073cbe4d2f4edc47@[10.0.1.3]> <422782B6.8000608@state.or.us>
Message-ID: <p0620073dbe4d33afe2ea@[10.0.1.3]>

At 1:33 PM -0800 2005-03-03, Christopher Adams wrote:

>  I may be misinterpreting the request, but what about Mass Removals
>  in Membership Managment.

	You're right.  I completely missed that.

	Now I feel like a complete moron....

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From chris.a.adams at state.or.us  Thu Mar  3 22:39:48 2005
From: chris.a.adams at state.or.us (Christopher Adams)
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 13:39:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman mass removal feature
In-Reply-To: <p0620073dbe4d33afe2ea@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <20050303205437.0D739129ED@smtp.ulm.edu>
	<p0620073cbe4d2f4edc47@[10.0.1.3]> <422782B6.8000608@state.or.us>
	<p0620073dbe4d33afe2ea@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <42278424.1060000@state.or.us>

Finally, a list peon makes one of the gurus feel like a moron. A victory 
for the little people! It happens to the best of us. >:)

Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 1:33 PM -0800 2005-03-03, Christopher Adams wrote:
> 
>>  I may be misinterpreting the request, but what about Mass Removals
>>  in Membership Managment.
> 
> 
>     You're right.  I completely missed that.
> 
>     Now I feel like a complete moron....
> 

-- 
Christopher Adams



From eppinette at ulm.edu  Thu Mar  3 23:36:00 2005
From: eppinette at ulm.edu (Chance Eppinette)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 16:36:00 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman mass removal feature
In-Reply-To: <p0620073dbe4d33afe2ea@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <20050303223012.6E1A712705@smtp.ulm.edu>

We are using Mailman 2.0.11 (?).
Is this mass removal a feature in a newer version?

Chance Eppinette
Technology Support Manager
ULM Computing Center
eppinette at ulm.edu
318-342-5021 (phone)
318-342-5018 (fax)

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+eppinette=ulm.edu at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+eppinette=ulm.edu at python.org] On Behalf Of
Brad Knowles
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 3:37 PM
To: Christopher Adams
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman mass removal feature

At 1:33 PM -0800 2005-03-03, Christopher Adams wrote:

>  I may be misinterpreting the request, but what about Mass Removals
>  in Membership Managment.

	You're right.  I completely missed that.

	Now I feel like a complete moron....

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
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Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From gerhard.oettl.ml at oesoft.at  Thu Mar  3 23:45:11 2005
From: gerhard.oettl.ml at oesoft.at (gerhard oettl)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 23:45:11 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderation request - zombies
Message-ID: <20050303224511.GA1538@oesoft.at>

hallo

since 16.02.2005 i get a daily moderation request with

Subject: 11 LISTNAME moderator request(s) waiting

with from / subject / reasion

even if i handled all requests in the web-interface and the
webpage for pending requests is empty.

only postings from non-member-posters are moderated.

in the meantime there were handled more than 20 real moderation
requests, but the mail about those 11 mails is still remaining.

if a additional moderation request happens the counter does not
show 12 moderation requests, but there were two mails:
one mail with the new moderation request and 
another with the 11 moderation requests zombies.

i stoped / started mailman in the meantime and tried the "manual
method" from the faq 3.38 - the zombie-mail still remains.  
bin/withlist 
print  m.NumRequestsPending()
shows the correct number (mainly 0)

a diff with another lists/xxx/request.pck shows no difference.


any ideas?
gerhard

-- 
 .''`.     
: :'  :    gerhard oettl
`. `'`         on
  `-    Debian/Gnu Linux

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From minfrin at sharp.fm  Fri Mar  4 00:49:06 2005
From: minfrin at sharp.fm (Graham Leggett)
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 01:49:06 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix problem: Local deliveries are being smtp
	delivered instead
In-Reply-To: <20050303224456.8EDED5A104F@mailgate.bauchan.org>
References: <57610.196.31.24.162.1109889245.squirrel@www.sharp.fm>	
	<20050303224456.8EDED5A104F@mailgate.bauchan.org>
Message-ID: <4227A272.1060404@sharp.fm>

Hi all,

After installing mailman into an existing postfix virtual mailserver 
setup, I have been trying to get postfix to deliver email to mailman, 
but have had no luck so far.

All attempts to deliver mail locally get delivered via smtp instead - 
which causes a mail loop and thus a bounce. Mailman never gets a look in.

Has anybody run into hassles like this before? I am stumped.

I inject a mail message like so:

/usr/sbin/sendmail -v xxx-announce at wired.co.za
Hello.
.

The log I get for this message is like so:

Mar  3 16:50:47 chandler postfix/pickup[24195]: A64D4923270: uid=0
from=<root>
Mar  3 16:50:47 chandler postfix/cleanup[24475]: A64D4923270:
message-id=<20050303225047.A64D4923270 at chandler.sharp.fm>
Mar  3 16:50:47 chandler postfix/qmgr[24196]: A64D4923270:
from=<root at chandler.sharp.fm>, size=295, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Mar  3 16:50:47 chandler postfix/smtp[24476]: A64D4923270:
to=<xxx-announce at chandler.sharp.fm>, orig_to=<xxx-announce at wired.co.za>,
relay=none, delay=0, status=bounced (mail for chandler.sharp.fm loops back
to myself)

The postconf -n is like so:

[root at chandler mailman]# postconf -n
alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases
alias_maps = hash:/var/mailman/data/aliases
command_directory = /usr/sbin
config_directory = /etc/postfix
daemon_directory = /usr/libexec/postfix
debug_peer_level = 2
disable_vrfy_command = yes
home_mailbox = Maildir/
html_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.1.5-documentation/html
inet_interfaces = all
local_recipient_maps = hash:/var/mailman/data/aliases
local_transport = local:$myhostname
mail_owner = postfix
mailq_path = /usr/bin/mailq.postfix
manpage_directory = /usr/share/man
mydestination = $myhostname, localhost, localhost.$mydomain
mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8
newaliases_path = /usr/bin/newaliases.postfix
owner_request_special = no
queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix
readme_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.1.5-documentation/readme
recipient_delimiter = +
relay_clientcerts = ldap:relayclientcerts
sample_directory = /etc/postfix/samples
sendmail_path = /usr/sbin/sendmail.postfix
setgid_group = postdrop
smtp_tls_CAfile = /etc/postfix/certs/caCert.pem
smtp_tls_cert_file = /etc/postfix/certs/hostCert.pem
smtp_tls_key_file = /etc/postfix/certs/hostKey.pem
smtp_tls_per_site = ldap:tlspersite
smtpd_helo_required = yes
smtpd_recipient_restrictions = reject_non_fqdn_sender,
reject_non_fqdn_recipient,            reject_unknown_sender_domain,
     reject_unknown_recipient_domain,            reject_unauth_pipelining,
           permit_mynetworks,            reject_unauth_destination,
    reject_rbl_client dnsbl.njabl.org,            reject_rbl_client
opm.blitzed.org,            reject_rbl_client cbl.abuseat.org,
reject_rbl_client sbl.spamhaus.org,            reject_rbl_client
dnsbl.sorbs.net,            reject_rbl_client relays.ordb.org,
reject_rbl_client list.dsbl.org,            reject_rbl_client
dynablock.easynet.nl,            reject_rbl_client blackholes.easynet.nl,
           reject_rbl_client proxies.blackholes.easynet.nl,
permit
smtpd_tls_CAfile = /etc/postfix/certs/caCert.pem
smtpd_tls_auth_only = yes
smtpd_tls_cert_file = /etc/postfix/certs/hostCert.pem
smtpd_tls_key_file = /etc/postfix/certs/hostKey.pem
smtpd_tls_loglevel = 2
smtpd_tls_received_header = yes
smtpd_tls_session_cache_timeout = 3600s
smtpd_use_tls = yes
tls_random_source = dev:/dev/urandom
transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport, ldap:ldapremote,
ldap:ldaplocal, static:smtp:
unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 450
virtual_alias_maps = hash:/var/mailman/data/virtual-mailman,
ldap:ldapforward, ldap:ldapalias
virtual_gid_maps = static:517
virtual_mailbox_base = /
virtual_mailbox_domains = ldap:acceptdomains
virtual_mailbox_limit = 0
virtual_mailbox_maps = ldap:ldapvirtual
virtual_minimum_uid = 500
virtual_transport = virtual
virtual_uid_maps = static:517

Does anyone have any ideas?

Regards,
Graham
--


From bryan at skiblack.com  Thu Mar  3 20:26:34 2005
From: bryan at skiblack.com (Bryan Blackwell)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 14:26:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission problems cause postfix postalias error
In-Reply-To: <13217.196.8.104.37.1109838752.squirrel@www.sharp.fm>
References: <422656D1.3000605@sharp.fm>
	<20050303013032.GF26827@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<13217.196.8.104.37.1109838752.squirrel@www.sharp.fm>
Message-ID: <82ea28d3b11e6d0f19360c40f184df32@skiblack.com>

Did you install Mailman as root, or with the mailman user?  That might 
be it.
--
--  Bryan Blackwell --
Unix System Administrator
bryan at skiblack.com

On Mar 3, 2005, at 3:32 AM, Graham Leggett wrote:

> - The check_perms script is setting the ownership of the files to 
> "root",
> when the docs say they should be "mailman".



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Mar  4 02:10:09 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 02:10:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman mass removal feature
In-Reply-To: <20050303223012.6E1A712705@smtp.ulm.edu>
References: <20050303223012.6E1A712705@smtp.ulm.edu>
Message-ID: <p0620073ebe4d65cda21e@[10.0.1.3]>

At 4:36 PM -0600 2005-03-03, Chance Eppinette wrote:

>  We are using Mailman 2.0.11 (?).
>  Is this mass removal a feature in a newer version?

	This feature is certainly available in version 2.1.5, but I 
couldn't tell you how far back it goes.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Mar  4 02:17:08 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 02:17:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix problem: Local deliveries are
	being smtp 	delivered instead
In-Reply-To: <4227A272.1060404@sharp.fm>
References: <57610.196.31.24.162.1109889245.squirrel@www.sharp.fm>
	<20050303224456.8EDED5A104F@mailgate.bauchan.org>
	<4227A272.1060404@sharp.fm>
Message-ID: <p0620073fbe4d6727f33a@[10.0.1.3]>

At 1:49 AM +0200 2005-03-04, Graham Leggett wrote:

>  Mar  3 16:50:47 chandler postfix/smtp[24476]: A64D4923270:
>  to=<xxx-announce at chandler.sharp.fm>, orig_to=<xxx-announce at wired.co.za>,
>  relay=none, delay=0, status=bounced (mail for chandler.sharp.fm loops back
>  to myself)

	This is a postfix configuration problem.  I would recommend 
checking the Postfix FAQ, and the archive of the postfix-users 
mailing list.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Mar  4 02:34:45 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 02:34:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listowners.org
In-Reply-To: <20050304010641.GL935@mckemie.org>
References: <20050303122740.GG935@mckemie.org>
	<p06200738be4d1a32e998@[10.0.1.3]>
	<20050304010641.GL935@mckemie.org>
Message-ID: <p06200741be4d6b0ddd37@[10.0.1.3]>

At 7:06 PM -0600 2005-03-03, Willie McKemie wrote:

>  No shell access to my hosting service.

	That would be a problem.

>                                          I presume I would at least need
>  the shell access to do a list_members?

	Directly or indirectly, yes.

>                                          I do have access to cron jobs
>  and I have used that to poke around a bit and locate the subsriber
>  lists.  No luck there.  Would I likely have access to list_members if I
>  had shell access?

	Maybe, maybe not.  You'd have to have read and execute 
permissions available to you into the space where Mailman is 
installed, usually in /usr/local/mailman/.  Even if you had shell 
access, your hosting provider might not give you that kind of access.

>  I have found that I can not easily get a list of subscribers emailed to
>  me with a "who" command transmitted via email.  I would have to change
>  a parameter on each and every subscriber via the web interface.  Total
>  number of subscribers spread over two lists is about 400.  Is there a
>  convenient way to expose the addresses of all subscribers?

	I think you're going to need to use the script tools I previously 
mentioned.  I don't remember the exact URL, you'll need to search the 
archives of the list.

>  HEY!  I think I've got it!  I put "~mailman/bin/list_members >
>  list_members" in a cron job and got a list_members file that contains
>  list_members help.

	Oh?  Wow.  I wouldn't have expected that you'd be that lucky.  Cool.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From dawahlstrom at gmail.com  Fri Mar  4 00:08:57 2005
From: dawahlstrom at gmail.com (Prof DA Wahlstrom JD MS)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 17:08:57 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ATT addresses
Message-ID: <151e8455050303150841828f3d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi

I have a list running for those interested in Swedish genealogy. I
started it in 1996 an most recently have been running it on Mailman.
Last month, I changed vendors and was very proud of myself for being
able to get Mailman and the list running again.

However, I seem to have a problem with subscribers with 'at att.com'
addresses. They tell me they are no longer getting any messages.

I do not know much about this stuff and don't even know where to look
for an explanation let along a fix.

Can anyone help?

Kind regards

Dave Wahlstrom

-- 
daw


From mckemie at spamcop.net  Fri Mar  4 02:06:41 2005
From: mckemie at spamcop.net (Willie McKemie)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 19:06:41 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listowners.org
In-Reply-To: <p06200738be4d1a32e998@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <20050303122740.GG935@mckemie.org>
	<p06200738be4d1a32e998@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <20050304010641.GL935@mckemie.org>

On Thu, Mar 03, 2005 at 08:54:39PM +0100, Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 6:27 AM -0600 2005-03-03, Willie McKemie wrote:
> 
> > Listowners.org has been down (to my knowledge) for several days.
> 
> 	It's been down a lot longer than that.  See 
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.025.htp>.

Must not be many of us users of hosting services needing mailman help?

> 
> >                                                            Since
> > I need some help with a hosted mailman problem, should I wait for
> > listowners.org to become available again or should I join the
> > developer's list?
> 
> 	I wouldn't recommend waiting on listowner.org.
> 
> > The problem? Extracting subscribers lists.
> 
> 	I presume that the problem can't be resolved with list_members 
> and the other commands at 
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.009.htp>?

No shell access to my hosting service.  I presume I would at least need 
the shell access to do a list_members?  I do have access to cron jobs 
and I have used that to poke around a bit and locate the subsriber 
lists.  No luck there.  Would I likely have access to list_members if I 
had shell access?

I have found that I can not easily get a list of subscribers emailed to 
me with a "who" command transmitted via email.  I would have to change 
a parameter on each and every subscriber via the web interface.  Total 
number of subscribers spread over two lists is about 400.  Is there a 
convenient way to expose the addresses of all subscribers?

In the past, I have copied and pasted out of the web listing of 
subscribers.  That, too, is pretty tedious at 20 a time.  Not something 
I'd want to do every week or so.

HEY!  I think I've got it!  I put "~mailman/bin/list_members > 
list_members" in a cron job and got a list_members file that contains 
list_members help.

-- 
Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Linux system uptime  249 days  7 hours 58 minutes


From mckemie at spamcop.net  Fri Mar  4 03:12:27 2005
From: mckemie at spamcop.net (Willie McKemie)
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 20:12:27 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listowners.org
In-Reply-To: <p06200741be4d6b0ddd37@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <20050303122740.GG935@mckemie.org>
	<p06200738be4d1a32e998@[10.0.1.3]>
	<20050304010641.GL935@mckemie.org>
	<p06200741be4d6b0ddd37@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <20050304021227.GM935@mckemie.org>

> 
> > HEY!  I think I've got it!  I put "~mailman/bin/list_members >
> > list_members" in a cron job and got a list_members file that contains
> > list_members help.
> 
> 	Oh?  Wow.  I wouldn't have expected that you'd be that lucky.  Cool.

Now, I'm stuck (again).  Doing "~mailman/bin/list_members [listname] > 
[listname]" created [listname] but left it empty.

Doing "~mailman/bin/list_lists > list_lists" created list_lists but 
left it empty.

So, it appears that I'm not really getting to my mailman data.  
Probably some path problem that I don't understand.

Taking some other tacks, I have access to supposed mailman backup files. 
Including there is a config.pck for each list.  The .pck files contain 
the subscribers, but not in an easily decipherable form.  Any idea what 
I might do with a .pck file?

I just did a local install of mailman to try to better understand where 
things are, but I haven't gotten it to start.  Probably because I don't 
have a mail server.  I do have apache running on the same box that has 
mailman.  Any suggestions on using a local mailman?  How to turn off the 
expectation of actually sending mail?

-- 
Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Linux system uptime  249 days  9 hours 01 minutes


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Mar  4 08:28:48 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 08:28:48 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listowners.org
In-Reply-To: <20050304021227.GM935@mckemie.org>
References: <20050303122740.GG935@mckemie.org>
	<p06200738be4d1a32e998@[10.0.1.3]>
	<20050304010641.GL935@mckemie.org>
	<p06200741be4d6b0ddd37@[10.0.1.3]>
	<20050304021227.GM935@mckemie.org>
Message-ID: <p06200742be4dbdaf3b2f@[10.0.1.3]>

At 8:12 PM -0600 2005-03-03, Willie McKemie wrote:

>  Now, I'm stuck (again).  Doing "~mailman/bin/list_members [listname] >
>  [listname]" created [listname] but left it empty.
>
>  Doing "~mailman/bin/list_lists > list_lists" created list_lists but
>  left it empty.

	Ahh.  These might be permissions problems.  You may have execute 
permissions to run the scripts, but you might not have read 
permissions to access the data.

>  So, it appears that I'm not really getting to my mailman data.
>  Probably some path problem that I don't understand.

	Could be, but I'd be willing to bet that it's actually a permissions issue.

	The only way to know for sure would be to get it working, and 
then figure out what had to be fixed.

>  Taking some other tacks, I have access to supposed mailman backup files.
>  Including there is a config.pck for each list.  The .pck files contain
>  the subscribers, but not in an easily decipherable form.  Any idea what
>  I might do with a .pck file?

	That's something you'd need to feed to one of the Mailman 
scripts.  With a local Mailman installation, a .pck file for a list, 
and the Mailman scripts, you should be able to do a list_members on 
that pickle file and have the system Do The Right Thing.

>  I just did a local install of mailman to try to better understand where
>  things are, but I haven't gotten it to start.  Probably because I don't
>  have a mail server.  I do have apache running on the same box that has
>  mailman.  Any suggestions on using a local mailman?  How to turn off the
>  expectation of actually sending mail?

	I don't know that being unable to send e-mail should be a 
problem.  I'd expect you to be able to get all the web admin stuff 
working fine.  However, in your case, I don't think either the web 
nor the mail admin stuff is necessary.

	What I think you want to be able to do is to apply the Mailman 
scripts to configuration files from your lists, and that should be 
do-able without either a mail server or a web server.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From minfrin at sharp.fm  Fri Mar  4 08:44:56 2005
From: minfrin at sharp.fm (Graham Leggett)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 09:44:56 +0200 (SAST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix problem: Local deliveries arebeing 
	smtp 	delivered instead
In-Reply-To: <p0620073fbe4d6727f33a@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <57610.196.31.24.162.1109889245.squirrel@www.sharp.fm><20050303224456.8EDED5A104F@mailgate.bauchan.org><4227A272.1060404@sharp.fm>
	<p0620073fbe4d6727f33a@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <24316.196.8.104.37.1109922296.squirrel@www.sharp.fm>

Brad Knowles said:

> 	This is a postfix configuration problem.  I would recommend
> checking the Postfix FAQ, and the archive of the postfix-users
> mailing list.

Already did to no avail, which is why I am now asking it here in case
anyone here has ever run into this.

Regards,
Graham
--



From idefix at fechner.net  Fri Mar  4 10:49:50 2005
From: idefix at fechner.net (Matthias Fechner)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 10:49:50 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I cannot sync my plainfile with mailman
In-Reply-To: <20050303155548.GB64952@server.idefix.loc>
References: <20050303155548.GB64952@server.idefix.loc>
Message-ID: <20050304094950.GD85682@server.idefix.loc>

Hi,

* Matthias Fechner <idefix at fechner.net> [03-03-05 16:55]:
> i tried today to sync a flat file with mailman with the script
> bin/sync_members -n -f <file> list
> 
> But if i do this i get the errormessage:
> Dry run mode
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "bin/sync_members", line 286, in ?
>     main()
>   File "bin/sync_members", line 259, in main
>     s = email.Utils.formataddr((name, addr)).encode(enc, 'replace')
> UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xfc in position 9: ordinal not in range(128)
> 
> It seems, that the programm has problem with german "Umlaute" how can
> i fix this?

i forgot to give you this information:
OS: FreeBSD 5.4
mailman 2.1.5_2 (from the FreeBSD ports)

-- 
Thx
Matthias


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Mar  4 09:18:09 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 09:18:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix problem: Local deliveries
	arebeing  	smtp 	delivered instead
In-Reply-To: <24316.196.8.104.37.1109922296.squirrel@www.sharp.fm>
References: <57610.196.31.24.162.1109889245.squirrel@www.sharp.fm><20050303224
	456.8EDED5A104F@mailgate.bauchan.org><4227A272.1060404@sharp.fm>
	<p0620073fbe4d6727f33a@[10.0.1.3]>
	<24316.196.8.104.37.1109922296.squirrel@www.sharp.fm>
Message-ID: <p06200746be4dc92bec6c@[10.0.1.3]>

At 9:44 AM +0200 2005-03-04, Graham Leggett wrote:

>>  	This is a postfix configuration problem.  I would recommend
>>  checking the Postfix FAQ, and the archive of the postfix-users
>>  mailing list.
>
>  Already did to no avail, which is why I am now asking it here in case
>  anyone here has ever run into this.

	A few seconds Googling for "postfix mail loops back to myself" 
turns up the page at <http://www.topology.org/linux/postfixloop.html> 
as the third link.  Most of the other links that are returned are 
from the archive of the postfix-users mailing list.


	The issue is not that this is a common or uncommon problem.  The 
issue is that this is a postfix problem, and the answer is easily 
found in the archives of their mailing list, as well as various other 
related pages.

	Moreover, a few seconds spent searching for the answer on your 
part means that those of us who have run into this problem before 
don't have to sit down and spend a lot of time to effectively 
re-invent the wheel in order to try to put together an explanation of 
the sort seen at <http://www.topology.org/linux/postfixloop.html>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From minfrin at sharp.fm  Fri Mar  4 12:05:11 2005
From: minfrin at sharp.fm (Graham Leggett)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 13:05:11 +0200 (SAST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix problem: Local deliveriesarebeing  
	smtp 	delivered instead
In-Reply-To: <p06200746be4dc92bec6c@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <57610.196.31.24.162.1109889245.squirrel@www.sharp.fm><20050303224456.8EDED5A104F@mailgate.bauchan.org><4227A272.1060404@sharp.fm><p0620073fbe4d6727f33a@[10.0.1.3]><24316.196.8.104.37.1109922296.squirrel@www.sharp.fm>
	<p06200746be4dc92bec6c@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <18233.196.8.104.37.1109934311.squirrel@www.sharp.fm>

Brad Knowles said:

> 	A few seconds Googling for "postfix mail loops back to myself"
> turns up the page at <http://www.topology.org/linux/postfixloop.html>
> as the third link.

A link which does not describe the problem I am having in the slightest.

> 	Moreover, a few seconds spent searching for the answer on your
> part means that those of us who have run into this problem before
> don't have to sit down and spend a lot of time to effectively
> re-invent the wheel in order to try to put together an explanation of
> the sort seen at <http://www.topology.org/linux/postfixloop.html>.

I have spent _three full days_ trying to search for the answer to this
problem, not a few seconds. I have googled forwards backwards and
sideways, I have jacked up the logging, I now completely understand what
Postfix is trying to do (it is delivering local mail via the smtp
transport, no clue why) but I cannot find the solution and neither could
anybody on the postfix list.

Please do not assume that all mailing list posters are lazy or stupid, or
that every problem out there is trivially answered by the third link down
on Google. A few seconds of reading a post may cause you to think the
answer is trivial, but a few more seconds of reading it would have shown
that the problem isn't that simple.

As I said, I posted here in an effort to find out if anybody else has had
a problem integrating mailman and postfix virtual mail config. If nobody
can help me, then so be it, but I've had enough of a trying time with this
problem over the last three days, I don't need flame bait piled on top of
it.

Regards,
Graham
--



From it-support at stthomaschurch.org.uk  Fri Mar  4 12:12:37 2005
From: it-support at stthomaschurch.org.uk (it support)
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 11:12:37 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman complaining about script permissions after
 running normally for a period...
Message-ID: <422842A5.3090002@stthomaschurch.org.uk>

Hi,

I've had mailman running quite happily for a period of time on a redhat 
9 machine and made sure that when I set it up that the groups were all 
correct and for a few weeks messages were going out to the list. Then, 
periodically (every few weeks) I get the following message in the logs 
and mail is not delivered.

Mar  4 10:46:42 david postfix/local[31297]: 01DE533DC8: 
to=<noticesp at david>, orig_to=<noticesp at david>, relay=local, delay=27, 
status=bounced (Command died with status 2: 
"/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post noticesp". Command output: Group 
mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed 
as group "mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail 
script as group "nobody".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the 
script as group "mailman", or re-run configure,  providing the command 
line option `--with-mail-gid=nobody'. )

I've tracked down the problem to the ownership of the files are 
changing. No longer are they being owned by mailman, but by root. I can 
fix the problem by resetting the ownership of the files to mailman and 
re-running check_perms -f to fix any stray permissions, but its 
frustrating for the list users who have to wait for this to be done.

I've checked the cron scripts on the machine and can't see anything that 
would affect the files in that part of the file system.

Has anyone else seen this problem and do they know the cause of it?

Jason

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content and is believed to be clean.



From davidg at goraich.co.uk  Fri Mar  4 15:38:15 2005
From: davidg at goraich.co.uk (david gordon)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 14:38:15 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ampersand in list footer
Message-ID: <20050304143815.12500@smtp.goraich.co.uk>

Mailman 2.1.5
Looked in FAQs

In my list settings: "Non-digest options -> Footer added to mail sent to
regular list members", I have a footer which includes an ampersand (&).
Messages received from the list show this as "&amp;".

Maybe this a function of a mail server somewhere, although I doubt that.
Any suggestions on how I can ensure & is & & not &amp;!

I didn't see this behaviour when using Mailman 2.0.13

-- 
 david gordon





From G.Booth at usm.edu  Fri Mar  4 15:39:22 2005
From: G.Booth at usm.edu (George Booth)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 08:39:22 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Administrative notices
References: <422842A5.3090002@stthomaschurch.org.uk>
Message-ID: <002401c520c7$f4c8d3b0$f3cb5f83@elysium>

For accreditation reasons, we are setting up automated lists for the 
colleges of our university. Since we were using Mailman already, we set up a 
seperate server, and scripts automatically create/delete lists based on 
automated data that comes from our PeopleSoft database. These lists are set 
up as announcement-only lists, so only specified people are able to send 
email. The Dean of each college is defaulted as the owner of the list for 
that college, but since we put this into Beta to test it, they've been 
receiving unwanted notifications that pending messages are awaiting 
approval, although there are no messages there. Now, we've created and blown 
away lists several times testing this, and we're thinking maybe some spam 
had tried coming through during one of the incarnations of the lists, but 
when the lists were destroyed, that the data was destroyed as well...but 
Mailman doesn't see it that way, and even though there are no messages 
pending approval, the software is still sending daily notices that there are 
some out there.

These pending messages would be kept in the data directory under the mailman 
directory, correct? Is there any other place these messages might be kept 
that we're overlooking? And is there any way to tell Mailman to stop sending 
notifications for pending messages that don't exist? :)

Thanks,

George

<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>
George Booth     iTech System Administrator
G.Booth at usm.edu
University of Southern Mississippi 




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Mar  4 15:36:48 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 15:36:48 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix problem: Local
	deliveriesarebeing        	smtp 	delivered instead
In-Reply-To: <18233.196.8.104.37.1109934311.squirrel@www.sharp.fm>
References: <57610.196.31.24.162.1109889245.squirrel@www.sharp.fm><20050303224
	456.8EDED5A104F@mailgate.bauchan.org><4227A272.1060404@sharp.fm><p
	0620073fbe4d6727f33a@[10.0.1.3]><24316.196.8.104.37.1109922296.squ
	irrel@www.sharp.fm>    <p06200746be4dc92bec6c@[10.0.1.3]>
	<18233.196.8.104.37.1109934311.squirrel@www.sharp.fm>
Message-ID: <p06200749be4e1cc1839c@[10.0.1.3]>

At 1:05 PM +0200 2005-03-04, Graham Leggett wrote:

>  Brad Knowles said:
>
>>  	A few seconds Googling for "postfix mail loops back to myself"
>>  turns up the page at <http://www.topology.org/linux/postfixloop.html>
>>  as the third link.
>
>  A link which does not describe the problem I am having in the slightest.

	Try re-reading it.  I believe you will find that it does.

>  I have spent _three full days_ trying to search for the answer to this
>  problem, not a few seconds.

	I can understand your frustration, but taking it out on me isn't 
going to help you solve your problem any sooner.

>                              I have googled forwards backwards and
>  sideways, I have jacked up the logging, I now completely understand what
>  Postfix is trying to do (it is delivering local mail via the smtp
>  transport, no clue why) but I cannot find the solution and neither could
>  anybody on the postfix list.

	Try putting the fully qualified domain name in question into your 
$mydestination list.  Postfix should then recognize the domain as 
local and not something to be delivered via SMTP.  This is explained 
on the page above.

	However, the author of that page spent a lot of time putting 
together examples to make the description of the problem more 
concrete, so that he could better explain the problem, and better 
explain the solution.

>              A few seconds of reading a post may cause you to think the
>  answer is trivial, but a few more seconds of reading it would have shown
>  that the problem isn't that simple.

	Having looked at your entire post yet once again, It sure looks 
that simple to me.  You've got the following $mydestination defined:

		mydestination = $myhostname, localhost, localhost.$mydomain

	From looking at the log entries you quoted, I presume that your 
$hostname may be "chandler".  I hope that you've got $mydomain set to 
"sharp.fm".  However, you do not define $mydestination to include 
"$myhostname.$mydomain", although you do include "localhost" and 
"localhost.$mydomain".

	The fact that you might require $mydestination to include 
"$myhostname.$mydestination" should have been obvious by reading the 
documentation, and the page I quoted.

>  As I said, I posted here in an effort to find out if anybody else has had
>  a problem integrating mailman and postfix virtual mail config. If nobody
>  can help me, then so be it, but I've had enough of a trying time with this
>  problem over the last three days, I don't need flame bait piled on top of
>  it.

	It is fundamentally *not* a problem with Mailman, or an 
integration issue between postfix or Mailman.  If it was, I would 
have given you a lot more leeway.

	This is clearly a pure postfix problem.  Even if I'm wrong in the 
solution that I recommend, I am quite certain that this is a pure 
postfix problem, and has absolutely nothing to do with Mailman.

	This is why I said:

		This is a postfix configuration problem.  I would recommend
		checking the Postfix FAQ, and the archive of the postfix-users
		mailing list.

	I see nothing here that would be considered to be inflammatory.

	Your response was:

		Already did to no avail, which is why I am now asking it here
		in case anyone here has ever run into this.


	However, the problem is that this mailing list is intended for 
the support of Mailman, and a lot of people on the list do not use 
postfix.  Asking us to support postfix as well as Mailman is not a 
good idea, and detracts from the main purpose of this list.

	You need to use the resources which were intended to support your 
non-Mailman problem, and not abuse us to support a program which is 
not our focus.

	And yes, although I understand your frustration, you are getting 
rather abusive now.  You're not only abusing the list to support a 
program other than Mailman, you're being personally abusive towards 
me because I'm trying to get you to take the problem where it really 
belongs.


	To be honest, I should not have attempted to provide any kind of 
a solution for you.  But at this point, I basically just want the 
abuse to stop.

	The next time someone asks us to answer postfix questions, 
they're going to get a lot less help than you have.  That's a pity.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Mar  4 15:41:37 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 15:41:37 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman complaining about script
	permissions after  running normally for a period...
In-Reply-To: <422842A5.3090002@stthomaschurch.org.uk>
References: <422842A5.3090002@stthomaschurch.org.uk>
Message-ID: <p0620074abe4e232402a1@[10.0.1.3]>

At 11:12 AM +0000 2005-03-04, it support wrote:

>  I've tracked down the problem to the ownership of the files are changing.
>  No longer are they being owned by mailman, but by root. I can fix the
>  problem by resetting the ownership of the files to mailman and
>  re-running check_perms -f to fix any stray permissions, but its
>  frustrating for the list users who have to wait for this to be done.

	There's nothing within Mailman that would cause this kind of behaviour.

>  I've checked the cron scripts on the machine and can't see anything that
>  would affect the files in that part of the file system.

	I don't know anything about your OS.  I'd recommend you use the 
mailing lists, newsgroups, FAQs, etc... that are appropriate to what 
you're running.

	I can tell you that the problem may be a logfile rotation script, 
or some other sort of cron job, or maybe it's being run indirectly -- 
some other cron job runs some other command which results in the kind 
of behaviour you're seeing.

>  Has anyone else seen this problem and do they know the cause of it?

	You could search the archives of the mailman-users mailing list, 
such as described at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.018.htp>. 
I've heard of these kinds of problems before, but I don't know if 
they occurred on the same platform that you're running.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From BPantejo at citco.com  Fri Mar  4 16:06:33 2005
From: BPantejo at citco.com (Pantejo, Barbara                FTL)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 10:06:33 -0500 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FAQ 5.6 Cannot Find/Receive Bounce Messages
Message-ID: <69654C1963C8F64FA560BCC6ECD12B3A0200FD4A@FTL1MSEX01>

Is there a way to enable all bounces, even the ones that mailman can handle,
to go to the list owner? 

Thanks,
Barbara  

-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad at stop.mail-abuse.org] 
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 4:05 PM
To: Pantejo, Barbara FTL
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] FAQ 5.6 Cannot Find/Receive Bounce Messages

At 3:31 PM -0500 2005-03-03, Pantejo, Barbara                FTL wrote:

>  There didn't seem to be an answer, posted with Mailman FAQ 5.6 (see
below).

	Questions should not be asked in the FAQ.  I have deleted this
entry.

>  I am having the same problem...I have bounce processing turned on, but 
> I'm not getting any bounce back message back to me (the list administrator
> when I send to a non-existent/invalid email. What do I need to do to get 
> bounce messages sent to the list administrator?

	Mailman has a bounce processing system.  It will try to 
automatically handle all bounces, and anything it can't handle will 
be sent to the list owner.

	So far as I know, there's no way to turn off the bounce 
processing system, or even effectively disable it.  But you should 
see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.024.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Mar  4 16:09:16 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 16:09:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listowners.org
In-Reply-To: <20050304140532.GP935@mckemie.org>
References: <20050303122740.GG935@mckemie.org>
	<p06200738be4d1a32e998@[10.0.1.3]>
	<20050304010641.GL935@mckemie.org>
	<p06200741be4d6b0ddd37@[10.0.1.3]>
	<20050304021227.GM935@mckemie.org>
	<p06200742be4dbdaf3b2f@[10.0.1.3]>
	<20050304140532.GP935@mckemie.org>
Message-ID: <p0620074cbe4e28944911@[10.0.1.3]>

At 8:05 AM -0600 2005-03-04, Willie McKemie wrote:

>  Alright, some movement here.  I found the scripts on my local mailman
>  install and seem to be able to execute them.  Now, how do I get the
>  list_members script to operate on data in a config.pck file?
>  "<path>/mailman/bin/list_members <path>/config.pck"
>  doesn't do it.

	Those scripts expect to find the pickle files in their standard 
locations, according to the list name.  So, one way to do that would 
be to create a local version of the list which is empty, and then 
stuff in the config.pck file that you downloaded in place of the 
empty config.pck that was created for that local version of the list.

	Then all the command-line tools should "just work".

>  The above route to lists of members is not all that attractive to me
>  since I have to download a file of about 200mb to get to those
>  relatively small config.pck files.

	There are a lot of things that can be done without too much 
hassle if you've got privileged access to the mail server where 
Mailman is installed, and you can log into the machine directly and 
get a shell prompt.

	Many of those things might be desirable to do from the web for 
site administrators or list managers, but that is not currently 
possible.


	Part of the problem is that Mailman was designed to be used in an 
environment where you install it yourself on your own machine(s), and 
not in a service provider environment.  Some groups like cPanel and 
Plesk recognize that issue and apply a great deal of customization to 
try to hide some of these problems, or to hide those features of 
Mailman which would otherwise be desirable but would not be 
accessible via the web.

	Some will install Mailman in a central location, but then they 
find that supporting all their users becomes very expensive.  They 
either have to charge amounts like $75-100/hour for any kind of 
change that would require involvement by one of their Site 
Administrators, or they stop providing those services altogether.


	These are known issues, and I believe that many of them are 
targeted for being addressed in the upcoming Mailman versions (mm3) 
development branch, but that doesn't help you today.

	The current version of Mailman just wasn't designed to be 
used/abused the way that many sites are installing it.  There's a 
limit to how much we can do to support customers of such sites.

>  Mailman wishlist feature: Enable some sort of "get membership list" via
>  an email command.  Even if member's addresses are "hidden".
>  Alternately, some way to, at least temporarily, "un-hide" all members.
>  Alternately, some way to list all members on a single web page.

	Please file this on the Mailman RFE page at SourceForge.

>  Maybe I should be thinking about "maximum number of members per page"?

	Could do, sure.

>  Is that parameter likely to be available to me as a hosting service
>  customer?

	Unfortunately not.  ;(

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Mar  4 16:32:16 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 16:32:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ampersand in list footer
In-Reply-To: <20050304143815.12500@smtp.goraich.co.uk>
References: <20050304143815.12500@smtp.goraich.co.uk>
Message-ID: <p0620074dbe4e2aaac626@[10.0.1.3]>

At 2:38 PM +0000 2005-03-04, david gordon wrote:

>  In my list settings: "Non-digest options -> Footer added to mail sent to
>  regular list members", I have a footer which includes an ampersand (&).
>  Messages received from the list show this as "&amp;".

	That's a result of editing the footer text via the web.  All such 
editing is passed through a process to escape any potential HTML that 
may have been added as part of the footer, but unfortunately this 
code is a bit too agressive and changes all ampersands to "&amp;" and 
all greater-than and less-than symbols into "&gt;" and "&lt;".

	If you have direct command-line access to the server where 
Mailman is installed, and privileged access to the Mailman scripts 
and data files, then you can fix this problem using the mechanism 
outline in the thread at 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-February/043081.html>.


	I've also just created the Mailman FAQ Wizard entry at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.052.htp> 
to help address this issue.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Mar  4 16:35:36 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 16:35:36 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FAQ 5.6 Cannot Find/Receive Bounce
 Messages
In-Reply-To: <69654C1963C8F64FA560BCC6ECD12B3A0200FD4A@FTL1MSEX01>
References: <69654C1963C8F64FA560BCC6ECD12B3A0200FD4A@FTL1MSEX01>
Message-ID: <p0620074ebe4e3044162d@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:06 AM -0500 2005-03-04, Pantejo, Barbara                FTL wrote:

>  Is there a way to enable all bounces, even the ones that mailman can handle,
>  to go to the list owner?

	No, not that I know of.  At least, not from within Mailman itself.


	Depending on your MTA and the way you have configured it, you may 
be able to get the alias entry for listname-bounces to resolve to a 
personal e-mail address as well as being sent back to the appropriate 
Mailman command, but that would be a solution that would be specific 
to your MTA.

	You would need to follow this up using the resources that are 
appropriate to your MTA, i.e., using their mailing lists, newsgroups, 
FAQs, etc....

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar  4 16:36:18 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 07:36:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FAQ 5.6 Cannot Find/Receive Bounce Messages
In-Reply-To: <69654C1963C8F64FA560BCC6ECD12B3A0200FD4A@FTL1MSEX01>
Message-ID: <PC1741200503040736180843a07e9e1d@msapiro>

Pantejo, Barbara wrote:

>Is there a way to enable all bounces, even the ones that mailman can handle,
>to go to the list owner? 

Bounces that result in a disable are sent to the listowner. Ones that
just increment the score are logged in the 'bounce' log, but the
message itself is discarded.

Thus, if you just want to know if bounces are occurring, you can look
at the 'bounce' log. There is no way within Mailman to see the bounce
message for a bounce that does not result in a disable. You can adjust
the bounce settings so that every bounce results in a disable, or you
might be able to tell your MTA/MDA to send a copy of all mail
addressed to the list-bounces address to the list-owner address as
well.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar  4 17:17:36 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 08:17:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Inconsistent post approval options
In-Reply-To: <uzmxk7e5c.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <PC174120050304081736043752bb14d9@msapiro>

David Abrahams wrote:

>Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> writes:
>
>> At 8:57 AM -0500 2005-03-03, David Abrahams wrote:
>>
>>>  Fantastic; this list strips enclosures.
>>
>> 	Yup.  That's intentional.
>>
>>>  You can see the page at http://www.luannocracy.com/mailman.html
>>
>> 	It looks to me like eckhardt at satorlaser.com is not a subscriber 
>> to the list.  That would explain why there's not moderate bit for you 
>> to clear for this person.
>
>Our list is set up so that non-subscribers get automatically rejected
>and told they need to subscribe before posting.  Normally we never get
>a chance to manually approve (or reject) postings from
>non-subscribers.

Filters are applied in an order determined by the GLOBAL_PIPELINE list
in Defaults.py or mm_cfg.py or the list's own pipeline attribute if it
has one. Moderate is not the first filter applied, thus a post from a
Moderated bember could be caught by another filter first. Likewise, a
post from a non-member can be caught by another filter first.

In the case you show, the post was held for:

Reason: Message body is too big: 94200 bytes with a limit of 75 KB

This test is applied in the Hold handler and thus takes priority over
any filters applied by later handlers.

However, both list membership and moderation are handled in the
Moderate handler which normally comes before Hold in the pipeline, so
presumably, the poster of this message is a list member and is not
moderated if this list uses the default pipline.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar  4 17:36:14 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 08:36:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Inconsistent post approval options
In-Reply-To: <PC174120050304081736043752bb14d9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC174120050304083614053121176141@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>However, both list membership and moderation are handled in the
>Moderate handler which normally comes before Hold in the pipeline, so
>presumably, the poster of this message is a list member and is not
>moderated if this list uses the default pipline.

Except, as Brad correctly notes, this post looks like it came from a
non-member because the "Add to filters" and Ban options are shown as
opposed to the notation that the poster is a list member. Maybe the
list does use a non-default pipeline or maybe I'm missing something in
the sequence of how these are handled.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu  Fri Mar  4 17:53:25 2005
From: Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu (Young, Darren)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 10:53:25 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unknown encoding error
Message-ID: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E181312@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>

Can anyone explain this one to me?

Mar 04 07:35:02 2005 (4008) Uncaught runner exception: unknown encoding:
gb2312
Mar 04 07:35:02 2005 (4008) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in
_oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in
_onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in
_dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in
_dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 74, in
process
    prefix_subject(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 262, in
prefix_subject
    h.append(s, c)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Header.py", line 285, in
append
    s = s.encode(outcodec, errors)
LookupError: unknown encoding: gb2312

Mar 04 07:35:02 2005 (4008) SHUNTING:
1109943290.6219399+5bd427b49515b41d7f44df52f67a2e0837d60514

-------------------------------------------------------------
| Darren Young              | http://www.chicagogsb.edu     |
| Senior UNIX Administrator | darren.young at chicagogsb.edu   |
| University of Chicago GSB | darren.young at gsb.uchicago.edu |
-------------------------------------------------------------


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Mar  4 18:08:54 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 18:08:54 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unknown encoding error
In-Reply-To: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E181312@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>
References: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E181312@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <p0620074fbe4e4659434c@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:53 AM -0600 2005-03-04, Young, Darren wrote:

>  LookupError: unknown encoding: gb2312

	Googling for this string returns the page at 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2002-December/014223.html> 
as the first hit.  Doing a bit more searching of the archives, and 
you find 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-September/039235.html>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From minfrin at sharp.fm  Fri Mar  4 18:17:54 2005
From: minfrin at sharp.fm (Graham Leggett)
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 19:17:54 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix problem: Local deliveriesarebeing   
	smtp 	delivered instead
In-Reply-To: <p06200749be4e1cc1839c@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <57610.196.31.24.162.1109889245.squirrel@www.sharp.fm><20050303224
	456.8EDED5A104F@mailgate.bauchan.org><4227A272.1060404@sharp.fm><p
	0620073fbe4d6727f33a@[10.0.1.3]><24316.196.8.104.37.1109922296.squ
	irrel@www.sharp.fm> <p06200746be4dc92bec6c@[10.0.1.3]>
	<18233.196.8.104.37.1109934311.squirrel@www.sharp.fm>
	<p06200749be4e1cc1839c@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <42289842.5070902@sharp.fm>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>     Try re-reading it.  I believe you will find that it does.

Having investigated exactly that issue three days ago and found it not 
to be the problem, I am quite confident that it does not.

>     I can understand your frustration, but taking it out on me isn't 
> going to help you solve your problem any sooner.

Do you understand the impact of making a post like you did to the 
question? Those who are skimming mailing lists are not likely to read my 
post because they see it's already been replied to. And those who read 
your post will simply assume I was expecting the list to solve my 
problem without any effort on my part, making the possiblity of a reply 
even less likely. And now these posts will get archived and indexed by 
Google, and someone else will get the misleading advice in a search.

>     Try putting the fully qualified domain name in question into your 
> $mydestination list.  Postfix should then recognize the domain as local 
> and not something to be delivered via SMTP.  This is explained on the 
> page above.

We have already, as I explained, ascertained that there is nothing 
whatsoever wrong with the mydestination setting. So far there looks like 
there is an issue with the transport_maps the pop toaster is using to 
implement mail server clustering that might have an impact on local 
delivery. When I am not about to board a plane, I am going to be looking 
at it further.

>     Having looked at your entire post yet once again, It sure looks that 
> simple to me.  You've got the following $mydestination defined:
> 
>         mydestination = $myhostname, localhost, localhost.$mydomain
> 
>     From looking at the log entries you quoted, I presume that your 
> $hostname may be "chandler".  I hope that you've got $mydomain set to 
> "sharp.fm".  However, you do not define $mydestination to include 
> "$myhostname.$mydomain", although you do include "localhost" and 
> "localhost.$mydomain".

Wrong. The hostname is "chandler.sharp.fm":

[root at chandler root]# postconf myhostname
myhostname = chandler.sharp.fm

Regards,
Graham
--

From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar  4 18:25:55 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 09:25:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unknown encoding error
In-Reply-To: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E181312@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17412005030409255506099642f638@msapiro>

Young, Darren wrote:

>Can anyone explain this one to me?
>
>Mar 04 07:35:02 2005 (4008) Uncaught runner exception: unknown encoding:
>gb2312
>Mar 04 07:35:02 2005 (4008) Traceback (most recent call last):
<snip>
>  File "/home/mailman-2.1/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 74, in
>process
>    prefix_subject(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/home/mailman-2.1/Mailman/Handlers/CookHeaders.py", line 262, in
>prefix_subject
>    h.append(s, c)
>  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Header.py", line 285, in
>append
>    s = s.encode(outcodec, errors)
>LookupError: unknown encoding: gb2312

Someone has posted a message to the list with the Subject: encoded in
the gb2312 (Chinese) character set. It appears your Python doesn't
support this character set, but it also looks like the code in
CookHeaders.py protects against LookupError, so I'm not sure what's
going on in detail.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From BPantejo at citco.com  Fri Mar  4 19:44:55 2005
From: BPantejo at citco.com (Pantejo, Barbara                FTL)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 13:44:55 -0500 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] History of pending moderator requests
Message-ID: <69654C1963C8F64FA560BCC6ECD12B3A0200FE88@FTL1MSEX01>

Hi all,

Sorry for all the questions lately, but is there a way to find out the
history of pending moderator requests to see which posts were
deferred/accepted/rejected/discarded? The list archives show the moderated
emails but it does not tell you whether the email was
deferred/accepted/rejected/discarded. Is there a way to see this?

Thanks,
Barbara 


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Mar  4 19:50:08 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 19:50:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix problem: Local
	deliveriesarebeing         	smtp 	delivered instead
In-Reply-To: <42289842.5070902@sharp.fm>
References: <57610.196.31.24.162.1109889245.squirrel@www.sharp.fm><20050303224
	456.8EDED5A104F@mailgate.bauchan.org><4227A272.1060404@sharp.fm><p
	0620073fbe4d6727f33a@[10.0.1.3]><24316.196.8.104.37.1109922296.squ
	irrel@www.sharp.fm>    <p06200746be4dc92bec6c@[10.0.1.3]>
	<18233.196.8.104.37.1109934311.squirrel@www.sharp.fm>
	<p06200749be4e1cc1839c@[10.0.1.3]> <42289842.5070902@sharp.fm>
Message-ID: <p06200752be4e5e04cf3d@[10.0.1.3]>

At 7:17 PM +0200 2005-03-04, Graham Leggett wrote:

>  Do you understand the impact of making a post like you did to the question?

	Do you realize that asking postfix questions on a mailing list 
that is not devoted to supporting postfix is not really a good idea?

	If you're not finding the answers to your postfix questions using 
non-postfix resources such as this mailing list, then I suggest you 
try using other resources which are more likely to be useful.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Mar  4 20:16:49 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 20:16:49 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] History of pending moderator requests
In-Reply-To: <69654C1963C8F64FA560BCC6ECD12B3A0200FE88@FTL1MSEX01>
References: <69654C1963C8F64FA560BCC6ECD12B3A0200FE88@FTL1MSEX01>
Message-ID: <p06200755be4e632d04fe@[10.0.1.3]>

At 1:44 PM -0500 2005-03-04, Pantejo, Barbara                FTL wrote:

>  Sorry for all the questions lately, but is there a way to find out the
>  history of pending moderator requests to see which posts were
>  deferred/accepted/rejected/discarded?

	So far as I know, the only place where you can get this kind of 
information is in the log files stored under /usr/local/mailman/logs 
(or wherever your Mailman software is installed).  However, you need 
to have privileged access to the Mailman installation and shell 
access to the machine.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From G.Booth at usm.edu  Fri Mar  4 22:41:18 2005
From: G.Booth at usm.edu (George Booth)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 15:41:18 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] checkdbs command question
References: <69654C1963C8F64FA560BCC6ECD12B3A0200FE88@FTL1MSEX01>
	<p06200755be4e632d04fe@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <03b701c52102$e62ce400$f3cb5f83@elysium>

Does the checkdbs command do ANYTHING other than send out pending 
notifications to the list owners? Would disabling it in cron cripple the 
Mailman software in any way, shape, or form? Comments in the cron file 
suggest that all it does is send out notifications, but there are no 
comments one way or the other within the actual checkdbs file as whether it 
does more than that or not. If that's all it does, we definitely want to 
disable it for the 'special' instance of Mailman we are setting up, but we 
don't want to cripple the software if it does more than just send out 
pending notifications.

Thanks,

George

<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>
George Booth     iTech System Administrator
G.Booth at usm.edu
University of Southern Mississippi 




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar  4 22:45:43 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 13:45:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender Filters
In-Reply-To: <030220051728.18869.4225F7C800017D71000049B522069984999C0E9D05049D0E05@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC17412005030413454300153598caba@Notebook>

karlkras at comcast.net wrote:

>I'm configuring a 'newsletter' list so all of the standard members are flagged as moderated and, since I don't want to allow them to post messages to the list, I would like such messages to be sent to the moderator to be considered while sending a "rejection" notice back to the member notifying of this. 
>
>>From my interpretation of the configuration interface what I would really like is a hybrid between member_moderation_action = 'reject' && 'hold' but this wouldn't appear possible. i.e., I'd like to be able to hold the message for approval by the list moderators, while automatically rejecting the message by sending a bounce notice to the post's author.
>
>Is there another not so obvious way to accomplish this?


If I understand what you wan't, It already works that way. You set
member_moderation_action = hold and the message is held. The poster is
informed via a message based on the postheld.txt template. A list
specific version of that template can be made to tell the poster
anything you want. See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp
for info on creating the list specific template.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar  4 23:11:40 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 14:11:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-members allowed to post!
In-Reply-To: <d04nrm$vch$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <PC17412005030414114003123598cbe0@Notebook>

David Gibbs wrote:
>
>I have a serious problem here that I can't seem to figure out.  I've 
>been running Mailman for a very long time and have never seen this 
>behavior before.
>
>A person is posting messages via GMane, but they are not subscribed to 
>the list.  However, their messages are being allowed to post!
>
>I have my list configured with ...
>
>generic_nonmember_action = hold
>accept_these_nonmembers = <empty>
>default_member_moderation = yes
>member_moderation_action = hold
>
>As you can see from this post log entry, the posting was accepted ...
>
>Mar 02 09:26:10 2005 (28195) post to rpg400-l from pearlsoft at xxxxxxxxx, 
>size=2570, message-id=<d04kvp$kot$1 at sea.gmane.org>, success
>
>But 'pearlsoft at xxxxxxxxx' is not subscribed to any of my lists.

The address in the post log entry (pearlsoft at xxxxxxxxx in this case) is
not necessarily the address which was validated for the list. There
are various possibilities, but for example, the address in the post
log entry could be the From: header address while the address that was
accepted as a member could be the envelope sender (or unixfrom)
address.

You may be able to get the incoming envelope sender from your MTA logs.

Also, if the list password has been compromised, the post could have
contained an Approved: header/line.

Both the original envelope sender and any Approved: header/line are
gone from the post as received from the list making it difficult to
diagnose this.

Still, looking at the post as received from the list might reveal a
Sender: or Resent-From: or other header that might have a member's
address.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar  4 23:35:26 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 14:35:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachment URL question in Archive Page
In-Reply-To: <DCEKLFLMFAILGNHKLNEPIEEAEPAA.brian@emwd.com>
Message-ID: <PC17412005030414352606403bb3d83a@Notebook>

Brian Carpenter wrote:
>
>I am running Mailman 2.1.5p1 under cPanel.


I'm not sure how cPanel affects this. See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp


>I have question on the URL that shows up for a scrubbed attachment on the
>Archive page. Right now the URL shows up in this format:
>
>Url : /pipermail/listname/attachments/20050302/b37e3e52/0001.gif
>
>How can I change this to:
>
>Url :
>http://host_name/pipermail/listname/attachments/20050302/b37e3e52/0001.gif
>
>Host_name being the virtual host name of the list. Please help. Thanks.

The default setting in Defaults.py for PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL is

PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'http://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'

Has this been changed or overridden in mm_cfg.py?

If not, 'hostname' comes from inverting the VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary
and looking up the list's host_name attribute in the inverted
dictionary. If not found, DEFAULT_URL_HOST is used, so there should
always be something.

The implication is PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL must have been changed.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar  4 23:54:18 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 14:54:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need help with "content filtering"
In-Reply-To: <42264F50.6050707@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC1741200503041454180156e86784ae@Notebook>

Pete Holsberg wrote:

>I would like for members of the list I run to be able to 
>send HTML-encoded emails and any attachments except pictures.
>
>"Remove message attachments that have a matching content 
>type" contains:
>image

I don't think this works. I.e. I don't think 'image' will match all
'image/*' content types. I think you have to enumerate all the
subtypes, but all image/ types will be removed by the rules below
anyway.

>"Remove message attachments that don't have a matching 
>content type" contains:
>multipart/mixed
>multipart/alternative
>text/plain
>text/html
>
>"Should Mailman convert text/html parts to plain text?" is NO

It looks like these settings should allow HTML, but they won't allow
non-image attachments that aren't text/plain or text/html. Your second
set allows only text/plain and text/html parts that are either the
only part or a sub-part at some level of multipart/mixed or
multipart/alternative parts. Also if a multipart/alternative part
contains both text/plain and text/html parts only the first part
(normally the text/plain part) will pass the filter.

>As a test I copied an HTML file that was open in Word (it 
>contained a single line), pasted it into Outlook (set for 
>HTML) and sent it to my list. I got the following repsonse:
>
>"The attached message matched the 
>4sam-4seasonsatmapleton.org mailing
>list's content filtering rules and was prevented from being 
>forwarded
>on to the list membership.  You are receiving the only 
>remaining copy
>of the discarded message."


It doesn't seem like this should have happened, but see below.


>One of the attachments contained this:
>
>BODY { MARGIN-TOP: 25px; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 25px; 
>COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY:
>Arial, Helvetica } P.msoNormal { MARGIN-TOP: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 
>10pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px;
>COLOR: #ffffcc; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica, "Times New Roman" } 
>LI.msoNormal { MARGIN-TOP:
>0px; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0px; COLOR: #ffffcc; 
>FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica, "Times New
>Roman" }

The actual contents of a part are not relevant. The thing that counts
is the part's Content-Type: header.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From G.Booth at usm.edu  Fri Mar  4 23:57:43 2005
From: G.Booth at usm.edu (George Booth)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 16:57:43 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] checkdbs command question
References: <69654C1963C8F64FA560BCC6ECD12B3A0200FE88@FTL1MSEX01><p06200755be4e632d04fe@[10.0.1.3]>
	<03b701c52102$e62ce400$f3cb5f83@elysium>
Message-ID: <041c01c5210d$92f21fc0$f3cb5f83@elysium>

Forgot to mention:

Mailman version 2.1.5
OS is RH Linux AS3

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "George Booth" <G.Booth at usm.edu>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 3:41 PM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] checkdbs command question


> Does the checkdbs command do ANYTHING other than send out pending 
> notifications to the list owners? Would disabling it in cron cripple the 
> Mailman software in any way, shape, or form? Comments in the cron file 
> suggest that all it does is send out notifications, but there are no 
> comments one way or the other within the actual checkdbs file as whether 
> it does more than that or not. If that's all it does, we definitely want 
> to disable it for the 'special' instance of Mailman we are setting up, but 
> we don't want to cripple the software if it does more than just send out 
> pending notifications.
>
> Thanks,
>
> George
>
> <>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>
> George Booth     iTech System Administrator
> G.Booth at usm.edu
> University of Southern Mississippi
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/g.booth%40usm.edu
>
> Security Policy: 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp 




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Mar  5 02:56:45 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 02:56:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listowners.org
In-Reply-To: <20050305012833.GT935@mckemie.org>
References: <20050303122740.GG935@mckemie.org>
	<p06200738be4d1a32e998@[10.0.1.3]>
	<20050304010641.GL935@mckemie.org>
	<p06200741be4d6b0ddd37@[10.0.1.3]>
	<20050304021227.GM935@mckemie.org>
	<p06200742be4dbdaf3b2f@[10.0.1.3]>
	<20050304140532.GP935@mckemie.org>
	<p0620074cbe4e28944911@[10.0.1.3]>
	<20050305012833.GT935@mckemie.org>
Message-ID: <p0620075dbe4ec22d4900@[10.0.1.3]>

At 7:28 PM -0600 2005-03-04, Willie McKemie wrote:

>  In trying to do the above (on local mailman install), I get:
>  Illegal list name: [listname]@localhost
>  when I do a "newlist".  No matter how I specify the [listname].
>  "list_lists" continues to show no lists.

	Can you show us an example of what you're doing on your local 
machine, and compare/contrast this with what you did to create the 
"real" list on the webserver?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brian at emwd.com  Sat Mar  5 03:41:44 2005
From: brian at emwd.com (Brian Carpenter)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 21:41:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachment URL question in Archive Page
In-Reply-To: <PC17412005030414352606403bb3d83a@Notebook>
Message-ID: <DCEKLFLMFAILGNHKLNEPAEJLEPAA.brian@emwd.com>

Hi Mark:

Thank you for the assistance.

The "PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL" governs the url to the archives of a list. That is
working fine. The url that I am talking about is the url that shows up when
looking at an archived message that had an attachment scrubbed.

Have a great day.

Kind regards,
Brian Carpenter
Emerging Markets Web Design, LLC
www.emwd.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 5:35 PM
To: Brian Carpenter; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Attachment URL question in Archive Page


Brian Carpenter wrote:
>
>I am running Mailman 2.1.5p1 under cPanel.


I'm not sure how cPanel affects this. See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp


>I have question on the URL that shows up for a scrubbed attachment on the
>Archive page. Right now the URL shows up in this format:
>
>Url : /pipermail/listname/attachments/20050302/b37e3e52/0001.gif
>
>How can I change this to:
>
>Url :
>http://host_name/pipermail/listname/attachments/20050302/b37e3e52/0001.gif
>
>Host_name being the virtual host name of the list. Please help. Thanks.

The default setting in Defaults.py for PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL is

PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'http://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'

Has this been changed or overridden in mm_cfg.py?

If not, 'hostname' comes from inverting the VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary
and looking up the list's host_name attribute in the inverted
dictionary. If not found, DEFAULT_URL_HOST is used, so there should
always be something.

The implication is PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL must have been changed.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan






From dcblack at hldwizard.com  Sat Mar  5 06:17:56 2005
From: dcblack at hldwizard.com (David C Black)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 21:17:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to enable topics for all users?
Message-ID: <01a985d60cc3e1622b0ab5ccbc9c488a@hldwizard.com>

I have a list and have been requested to add topics; however, many 
members of the list are unsophiticated. Can I adjust the settings for 
members (similar to setting moderation)? If yes, how?

David C Black



From gerhard.oettl.ml at oesoft.at  Sat Mar  5 08:27:52 2005
From: gerhard.oettl.ml at oesoft.at (gerhard oettl)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 08:27:52 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] solved: moderation request - zombies
In-Reply-To: <20050303224511.GA1538@oesoft.at>
References: <20050303224511.GA1538@oesoft.at>
Message-ID: <20050305072752.GB1303@oesoft.at>


>since 16.02.2005 i get a daily moderation request with
>even if i handled all requests in the web-interface and the
>webpage for pending requests is empty.
>

1) sorry, not a mailman-error
2) the reason: all mailing-lists moved to another server and
after a power-off on the old server mailman was accedently 
started again.
The pending requests came from another machine and not from
the current mailman listserver.


yours
gerhard


-- 
 .''`.     
: :'  :    gerhard oettl
`. `'`         on
  `-    Debian/Gnu Linux

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From oheidsmo at dyrsrettigheter.no  Fri Mar  4 10:34:19 2005
From: oheidsmo at dyrsrettigheter.no (Odd Harald Eidsmo)
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 10:34:19 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 'Submit change' without effect
Message-ID: <BE4DEA2B.129A5%oheidsmo@dyrsrettigheter.no>

Dear Mailman-staff,

We?ve recently switched to a new mailhost, and are thrilled to be able to
set up mailinglists on our own domain. However, I ran into a problem when I
tried to set the preferences for my list. After hitting the ?Submit your
changes? button, the page refreshed as supposed to, but the changes were not
stored ? the site came back with the old prefs as they appeared before I
changed them.

Have you heard of this problem before? I?d love to hear it if there is
something I can do about this...

Hope to hear from you; thanks in advance.


Kind regards,

Odd Harald Eidsmo


From pete at lspacificmedia.info  Fri Mar  4 23:30:13 2005
From: pete at lspacificmedia.info (Maui MultiMedia)
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 12:30:13 -1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] please help
Message-ID: <2bee21ca7580d1444f392c26e8b040cc@lspacificmedia.info>

is there a way to set up my list so only I the admin can send emails? I 
dont want anyone else to be able to send mails to my list except for 
me- Thanx for your time - I tried to answer this question by reading 
but i cant find the solution - ALOHA



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Mar  5 13:59:22 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 13:59:22 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] please help
In-Reply-To: <2bee21ca7580d1444f392c26e8b040cc@lspacificmedia.info>
References: <2bee21ca7580d1444f392c26e8b040cc@lspacificmedia.info>
Message-ID: <p06200763be4f5d83b14c@[10.0.1.3]>

At 12:30 PM -1000 2005-03-04, Maui MultiMedia wrote:

>  is there a way to set up my list so only I the admin can send emails?

	Go to the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> and search for "announce" 
or "one-way".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From michael at espersunited.com  Sat Mar  5 14:40:18 2005
From: michael at espersunited.com (Michael Sullivan)
Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2005 07:40:18 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] File Not Found error
Message-ID: <1110030018.28574.5.camel@espersunited.com>

I posted this to the gentoo-user list yesterday, but since no one
responded I'll post it here too.

I've been trying all afternoon to get some response from email requests
to subscribe to my test list.  I discovered after many hours of trying
that the mailman daemon wasn't even running.  This confused me because I
started it and made sure it was started before I began trying to
subscribe to the test list.  My email requests to subscribe showed up in
the logs as being successfully sent, but I wasn't getting any kind of
response from mailman.  After I discovered that mailman had been
stopped, I of course started it again.  I guess my subscription requests
were still in the mail queue because I started seeing this printed out
to the terminal prompt:

bullet log # Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
    qrunner.run()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
    filecnt = self._oneloop()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in
_oneloop
    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 143, in
dequeue
    fp = open(filename)
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/out/1109975934.623035
+4cd01836ef0e6cef43795017b8bdc4487d050f37.pck'
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
    qrunner.run()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
    filecnt = self._oneloop()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in
_oneloop
    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 143, in
dequeue
    fp = open(filename)
IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/out/1109976293.7504261
+b03c5d09f70bf45f9f14f551471a278c0df63795.pck'

Is this something I can fix myself, or something I need to report to the
mailman project?  



From lists at southernohio.net  Sat Mar  5 17:56:03 2005
From: lists at southernohio.net (lists at southernohio.net)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 11:56:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman options
Message-ID: <A9EE47E4-6E66-4C2E-BEDA-5987C84FCBFE@southernohio.net>

I have a customer that is essentially asking me for a mailing list that 
is not the traditional mailman way of doing things.  I started out 
customizing Mailman in several ways according to their requests, 
however they are, I think, needing another system and I'm just not sure 
where to find such a creature.

They had a problem where their provider started spamming their list and 
had to change, thus this is where I come into the mix, and they simply 
want to send out their own newsletters intermittently and not allow 
members to chat with each other, but when they send messages that they 
go back to the administrator.  They also do not want users to have to 
worry about passwords and they want unsubscription will be as simple as 
clicking a link in the newsletter.

One final kicker is that they want reporting on if members addresses 
have become invalid (ie messages bounced to them).

Can mailman be customized to function after this manner (basically 
providing a super clean interface for subscribers with the above 
options) or should I be looking for another solution?  If I should be 
looking for another solution does anyone know of such an application?

Thanks much for any help!

-George


From pjh42 at comcast.net  Sat Mar  5 18:26:28 2005
From: pjh42 at comcast.net (Pete Holsberg)
Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2005 12:26:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need help with "content filtering"
In-Reply-To: <PC1741200503041454180156e86784ae@Notebook>
References: <PC1741200503041454180156e86784ae@Notebook>
Message-ID: <4229EBC4.6040201@comcast.net>

Thanks, Mark.

I decided to create a test mailing list to experiment with 
content filtering. Incidentally, this is Mailman v2.1.5.

Edit filter content: YES
Filter mime types: (blank)
Pass mime types:
	multipart/mixed
	multipart/alternative
	text/plain
	text/html
Convert HTML to plaintext: (see below)
Filter action: Forward to list owner

I created a simple two-line HTML "page" in Word and pasted 
it in to Outlook (set to send HTML) but without stationery.

It didn't matter whether "Convert HTML to plain text" was 
YES or NO: In both cases, all HTML font formatting was 
stripped out. However the link I had in the original was 
preserved.

I'd be happy to email the simple test page to anyone off list.

This is really confusing me!

-----------------

If my HTML page has an image in it ("stationery"), it will 
be treated as an attachment. Won't Mailman remove it because 
it doesn't have an approved content type? It doesn't. 
Instead it blocks the message and sends me this:

"The attached message matched the XXX mailing
list's content filtering rules and was prevented from being 
forwarded
on to the list membership.  You are receiving the only 
remaining copy
of the discarded message."

When I send the same page without the image, the message is 
acceptable.

Thanks.


From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Sat Mar  5 18:38:28 2005
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2005 12:38:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Making Web UI Valid XHTML
Message-ID: <4229A844.10162.13D4BBC@localhost>

I am trying to make the web UI for MM 2.1.5 valid XHTML.

I have got some of it completed already (just the listinfo page at 
the moment), and I would like to let the rest of you have a look at 
it, critique it....

However, since I'm fairly new to Linux and creating diff files, I'm 
not sure how to make the patch file to upload to Sourceforge. I have 
read the man pages, but there seems to be quite a few different 
commandline switches, I don't know which ones to use.

In that respect I have 2 questions:

1) Can anyone give me some quick pointers on how to make it, so that 
it's a standard patch file, if such a thing exists.

2) Would I be better off working with 2.1.5 or 2.1.6 source? I know 
that the 2.1.6 is still in late beta.

Thanks for any help or pointers.

-- 
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
Never let a computer see you hurry.




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Mar  5 18:16:47 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 18:16:47 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman options
In-Reply-To: <A9EE47E4-6E66-4C2E-BEDA-5987C84FCBFE@southernohio.net>
References: <A9EE47E4-6E66-4C2E-BEDA-5987C84FCBFE@southernohio.net>
Message-ID: <p06200765be4f979a4ef1@[10.0.1.3]>

At 11:56 AM -0500 2005-03-05, lists at southernohio.net wrote:

>  Can mailman be customized to function after this manner (basically
>  providing a super clean interface for subscribers with the above options)
>  or should I be looking for another solution?  If I should be looking for
>  another solution does anyone know of such an application?

	You can set up one-way/announcement-only mailing lists, and all 
replies will go back to the moderators.  And putting unsubscription 
links in the message footer is no problem.  Just enable 
personalization, and then put in the appropriate text -- we do this 
for the mailman-users list.

	If they want all bounces to come exclusively to them, they'll 
have to change the standard aliases that are created which would 
normally route all bounces back to the Mailman system.  Either that, 
or set the calculation low enough that a single bounce would result 
in the recipient being disabled -- which would result in the list 
administrator being notified.

	However, passwords is something that I'm pretty sure the current 
version cannot eliminate.  I believe that we're hoping to fix that in 
future versions, perhaps in the 2.2 tree, or perhaps in mm3.  If you 
want that in the current version, you're going to have to make 
changes to the source code.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar  5 18:46:23 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 09:46:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need help with "content filtering"
In-Reply-To: <4229EBC4.6040201@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC17412005030509462307969fa01a93@msapiro>

Pete Holsberg wrote:
>
>I decided to create a test mailing list to experiment with 
>content filtering. Incidentally, this is Mailman v2.1.5.
>
>Edit filter content: YES
>Filter mime types: (blank)
>Pass mime types:
>	multipart/mixed
>	multipart/alternative
>	text/plain
>	text/html
>Convert HTML to plaintext: (see below)
>Filter action: Forward to list owner
>
>I created a simple two-line HTML "page" in Word and pasted 
>it in to Outlook (set to send HTML) but without stationery.
>
>It didn't matter whether "Convert HTML to plain text" was 
>YES or NO: In both cases, all HTML font formatting was 
>stripped out. However the link I had in the original was 
>preserved.


I think what's going on here is the original message is
multipart/alternative with both a text/plain part and a text/html
part. If more than one sub-part remains in a multipart/alternative
part after filtering, Mailman selects the first remaining alternative
which would be the text/plain part in this case.

There are two ways to get the HTML part to the list in this case. One
is to not allow text/plain at all. This is probably a very bad idea
for a discussion list, but might be viable for an announcement list
where the intent is to always post HTML. The other is to set up your
MUA (Outlook) to send HTML only, not multipart/alternative.


>
>I'd be happy to email the simple test page to anyone off list.
>
>This is really confusing me!
>
>-----------------
>
>If my HTML page has an image in it ("stationery"), it will 
>be treated as an attachment. Won't Mailman remove it because 
>it doesn't have an approved content type? It doesn't. 
>Instead it blocks the message and sends me this:
>
>"The attached message matched the XXX mailing
>list's content filtering rules and was prevented from being 
>forwarded
>on to the list membership.  You are receiving the only 
>remaining copy
>of the discarded message."
>
>When I send the same page without the image, the message is 
>acceptable.

What this means is content filtering removed the entire message. This
may be a problem with content filtering or it may be the way Outlook
structures this message. I can't say without seeing such a message as
received by Mailman. If you want to Cc: me directly with one of these
test posts, I'll look at it and tell you what I think.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Sat Mar  5 18:51:06 2005
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2005 12:51:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Making Web UI Valid XHTML
In-Reply-To: <4229A844.10162.13D4BBC@localhost>
Message-ID: <4229AB3A.6146.148DC8E@localhost>

On 5 Mar 2005 at 12:38, Bryan Carbonnell wrote:

> However, since I'm fairly new to Linux and creating diff files, I'm
> not sure how to make the patch file to upload to Sourceforge. I have
> read the man pages, but there seems to be quite a few different
> commandline switches, I don't know which ones to use.

OOPS.. That should have read: I have read the man pages for diff and 
patch....

-- 
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
Why is it that inside every older person is a younger person 
wondering what the heck happened? 




From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar  5 19:33:06 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 10:33:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with bounce processing
In-Reply-To: <20050302162751.GA31762@csail.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1741200503051033060125c88c9463@msapiro>

Noah Meyerhans wrote:
>
>Hi all.  I'm stumped by a problem I've been having with Mailman 2.1.x
>and bounce processing.  A number of users have recently had their
>subscriptions to several mailing lists disabled due to bounces.
>However, I know that their mail is working properly as they're local to
>my site and use their mail daily.
>
>Is it possible to see the actual content of the bounces that mailman has
>processed?  Like I said, I don't think anybody's mail is actually
>bouncing, but clearly Mailman thinks it is.  I need to figure out why so
>I can fix this...

If you set bounce_notify_owner_on_disable and
bounce_notify_owner_on_removal to "Yes" on the Bounce processing page,
the list owner will receive a copy of the bounce message that caused
the disable or removal.

As Brad noted, you can't see the actual bounce messages preceeding the
ones that cause disable or removal (unless you somehow get your MTA to
send you a copy), but you can see their occurrence is noted in the
'bounce' log.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar  5 19:48:39 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 10:48:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spanish version option page
In-Reply-To: <B91F108ADD81414AB2C9CB7449D3CEC79FD8D6@DELTA.AFSC.local>
Message-ID: <PC1741200503051048390953cf914fa0@msapiro>

Aaron Crosman wrote:

>I'm running Mailman 2.1.4 on SuSE 9.1, using the SuSE package.  I have one user using the Spanish language version of Mailman.  Almost everything is setup, however today we noticed that the user options page of the Spanish language version is not working properly at all (everything is fine if you look at the English lists).
>

The first thing to check is the Spanish language template for the page.
The base template is templates/es/options.html, but there could also
be a site edited template at templates/site/es/options.html or a
domain specific edited template at
templates/<host-name>/es/options.html or a list specific edited
template at lists/<list-name>/es/options.html.

Note that the base template should never be edited. Edited templates
should be in one or more of the other 3 places. See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar  5 19:57:35 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 10:57:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with a list
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0503022007400.31151-100000@nefertite.nomell.se>
Message-ID: <PC17412005030510573500152516ccf2@msapiro>

Joakim Nomell wrote:
>
>Suddenly one listed started to behave strange. It had correct reply-to 
>header but instead of having the list name and address on the to-line, it 
>put the members name there. But when replying, the client used the 
>repply-to header and it worked anyway. But why does it change my to-lines 
>on one list? All lists have the smae settings except from subscribe policy 
>on some closed lists.


This behavior is produced by Full Personalization. See the Non-digest
options page "Should Mailman personalize each non-digest delivery?"
settings (only available if "OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes"
in mm_cfg.py.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar  5 20:02:12 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 11:02:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] The unsubscribe users are STILL receiving
	themailing list password reminders messages
In-Reply-To: <8C5D1947714C254FBA98D176B86DEAB838EAC8@XCH-SW-3V1.sw.nos.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <PC17412005030511021207032516cf8b@msapiro>

Wang, Mary Y wrote:
> 
>I'm using mailman-2.0.6-1 on a Redhat 7.2 box.  Recently, few ex-mailing
>list subscribers complained about that they have already unsubscribe
>those mailing lists, but yet they still received the monthly password
>reminder email message.  
> 
>I know I'm using an older version of mailman, and I don't have time to
>install the later version.  How do I remove those users from the monthly
>password reminder email message broadcast.  Also why does the
>unsubscribe logic IS NOT affecting the password reminder logic in
>Mailman?

Ask the users to forward to you the password reminder. This will tell
you to what list(s) they are subscribed and with what e-mail address.
They may be subscrribed to an inactive list they've forgotted or have
their delivery disabled but still be subscribed.

The notice itself should give you all you need to figure it out.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jason.filby at gmail.com  Sat Mar  5 20:10:23 2005
From: jason.filby at gmail.com (Jason Filby)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 21:10:23 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing per user
Message-ID: <e7a1591e05030511103c7b466c@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all

Is it possible to set bounce settings for a specific user? I have a
user whose account bounces mails if over 25kb. This causes him to be
disabled from the list when people send patches/HTML messages. Can I
allow infinite bounces from his address only?

Thanks
Jason


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar  5 20:18:32 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 11:18:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ATT addresses
In-Reply-To: <151e8455050303150841828f3d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17412005030511183200464679d82e@msapiro>

Prof DA Wahlstrom wrote:
>
>I have a list running for those interested in Swedish genealogy. I
>started it in 1996 an most recently have been running it on Mailman.
>Last month, I changed vendors and was very proud of myself for being
>able to get Mailman and the list running again.
>
>However, I seem to have a problem with subscribers with 'at att.com'
>addresses. They tell me they are no longer getting any messages.
>
>I do not know much about this stuff and don't even know where to look
>for an explanation let along a fix.

One likely possibility is att.com is blocking mail from your new host.
See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.042.htp
which is primarily about AOL but has relevant information.

A less likely possibility is some kind of connectivity problem between
your new host and att.com. Check Mailman's 'bounce' log to see if
there are any bounces from these addresses (assuming bounce processing
is turned on).

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar  5 20:42:24 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 11:42:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Administrative notices
In-Reply-To: <002401c520c7$f4c8d3b0$f3cb5f83@elysium>
Message-ID: <PC1741200503051142240437c058a12d@msapiro>

George Booth wrote:

>Mailman doesn't see it that way, and even though there are no messages 
>pending approval, the software is still sending daily notices that there are 
>some out there.


Have you seen
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.038.htp
Is this the problem?


>These pending messages would be kept in the data directory under the mailman 
>directory, correct?

Yes

>Is there any other place these messages might be kept 
>that we're overlooking? And is there any way to tell Mailman to stop sending 
>notifications for pending messages that don't exist? :)

The messages aren't elswhere, but information about them is in
lists/<listname>/request.pck


--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Mar  5 20:40:38 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 20:40:38 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing per user
In-Reply-To: <e7a1591e05030511103c7b466c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e7a1591e05030511103c7b466c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06200768be4fbb8ebc16@[10.0.1.3]>

At 9:10 PM +0200 2005-03-05, Jason Filby wrote:

>  Is it possible to set bounce settings for a specific user?

	Not that I know of.

>                                                             I have a
>  user whose account bounces mails if over 25kb. This causes him to be
>  disabled from the list when people send patches/HTML messages. Can I
>  allow infinite bounces from his address only?

	You could probably modify the source code to do this sort of 
thing, but short of that I am not aware of any solution.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar  5 20:51:32 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 11:51:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listowners.org
In-Reply-To: <p0620074cbe4e28944911@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <PC174120050305115132039076244f66@msapiro>

>At 8:05 AM -0600 2005-03-04, Willie McKemie wrote:
>
>>  Mailman wishlist feature: Enable some sort of "get membership list" via
>>  an email command.  Even if member's addresses are "hidden".
>>  Alternately, some way to, at least temporarily, "un-hide" all members.
>>  Alternately, some way to list all members on a single web page.

There are some sample scripts available that script the web interface
to do these things See
http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#throughtheweb

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar  5 21:42:23 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 12:42:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] checkdbs command question
In-Reply-To: <041c01c5210d$92f21fc0$f3cb5f83@elysium>
Message-ID: <PC1741200503051242230703a914d256@msapiro>

George Booth wrote:

>Forgot to mention:
>
>Mailman version 2.1.5
>OS is RH Linux AS3
>
And
>
>> Does the checkdbs command do ANYTHING other than send out pending 
>> notifications to the list owners? Would disabling it in cron cripple the 
>> Mailman software in any way, shape, or form?

It does one other thing. It evicts stale autoresponse data from the
list's config.pck file. This is not critical since even if it is not
done, there will still be at most one entry per member.

So, not running checkdbs will not cause any problem other than the
config.pck files being a bit bigger than necessary.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar  5 22:14:20 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 13:14:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachment URL question in Archive Page
In-Reply-To: <DCEKLFLMFAILGNHKLNEPAEJLEPAA.brian@emwd.com>
Message-ID: <PC1741200503051314200125b974db91@msapiro>

Brian Carpenter wrote:
>
>The "PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL" governs the url to the archives of a list. That is
>working fine. The url that I am talking about is the url that shows up when
>looking at an archived message that had an attachment scrubbed.

If you look at the code in Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py, you will see
that the base portion of the URL to the scrubbed attachment is
obtained from GetBaseArchiveURL() which is exactly the same method
used by Cgi/admin.py, HTMLFormatter.py and Handlers/CookHeaders.py to
get this information. If the archive URL is correct in the link from
the web admin pages, the various templates and the RFC-2369 headers in
list messages, it should also be correct in the link to a scrubbed
part. If it's not, I don't know why.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar  5 22:26:05 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 13:26:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 'Submit change' without effect
In-Reply-To: <BE4DEA2B.129A5%oheidsmo@dyrsrettigheter.no>
Message-ID: <PC1741200503051326050031a914cfa4@msapiro>

Odd Harald Eidsmo wrote:
>
>We?ve recently switched to a new mailhost, and are thrilled to be able to
>set up mailinglists on our own domain. However, I ran into a problem when I
>tried to set the preferences for my list. After hitting the ?Submit your
>changes? button, the page refreshed as supposed to, but the changes were not
>stored ? the site came back with the old prefs as they appeared before I
>changed them.

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp
may be relevant.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar  5 22:33:49 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 13:33:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman options
In-Reply-To: <p06200765be4f979a4ef1@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <PC1741200503051333490000a914cfb1@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 11:56 AM -0500 2005-03-05, lists at southernohio.net wrote:
>
>>  Can mailman be customized to function after this manner (basically
>>  providing a super clean interface for subscribers with the above options)
>>  or should I be looking for another solution?  If I should be looking for
>>  another solution does anyone know of such an application?
>
<snip>
>	However, passwords is something that I'm pretty sure the current 
>version cannot eliminate.  I believe that we're hoping to fix that in 
>future versions, perhaps in the 2.2 tree, or perhaps in mm3.  If you 
>want that in the current version, you're going to have to make 
>changes to the source code.

The FAQ article at
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp
gives some tips for minimizing the need for users to know their
password.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar  5 22:42:45 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 13:42:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Making Web UI Valid XHTML
In-Reply-To: <4229A844.10162.13D4BBC@localhost>
Message-ID: <PC1741200503051342450750c24b623b@msapiro>

Bryan Carbonnell wrote:
>
>1) Can anyone give me some quick pointers on how to make it, so that 
>it's a standard patch file, if such a thing exists.


A unified context diff is the preferred format for a patch. This is the
'-u' option.

>2) Would I be better off working with 2.1.5 or 2.1.6 source? I know 
>that the 2.1.6 is still in late beta.

I would recommend 2.1.6, although for the templates at least, there's
no difference - see
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/mailman/mailman/templates/en/?only_with_tag=Release_2_1_6b4

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar  5 22:50:39 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 13:50:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ATT addresses
In-Reply-To: <PC17412005030511183200464679d82e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1741200503051350390906e9b7ead1@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Prof DA Wahlstrom wrote:
>>
>>However, I seem to have a problem with subscribers with 'at att.com'
>>addresses. They tell me they are no longer getting any messages.

One other thought. Do you mean attbi.com rather than att.com? If so,
the issue is that attbi.com was taken over by comcast.net some time
ago. All addresses should have been changed from the attbi.com domain
to the comcast.net domain, but the attbi.com addresses continued to
work until 2 months ago. They are no longer valid and need to be
changed to comcast.net addresses.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar  5 23:08:05 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 14:08:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to enable topics for all users?
In-Reply-To: <01a985d60cc3e1622b0ab5ccbc9c488a@hldwizard.com>
Message-ID: <PC174120050305140805010994bbbf12@msapiro>

David C Black wrote:

>I have a list and have been requested to add topics; however, many 
>members of the list are unsophiticated. Can I adjust the settings for 
>members (similar to setting moderation)? If yes, how?

I think you would need to create a bin/withlist script to do this. From
the web interface, you'd have to do it one member at a time.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar  5 23:47:21 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 14:47:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman/data directory
In-Reply-To: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E1812E8@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17412005030514472104065d0e030b@msapiro>

Young, Darren wrote:

>What are the heldmsg files in the Mailman data directory? They all seem
>to be held messages for lists, yes?

Yes

>On that note, the file in the lists/<listname> directory, called
>request.pck, is that a pointer to all of those files specific to that
>list?

Yes, but it contains other requests too such as unconfirmed
subscriptions, unconfirmed address changes, etc.

>Reason I ask, the data directory on our server has 147,000 files in it
>(and it's getting rather large). List admins/moderators have this
>tendency of not tending to pending requests so it seems that what all
>those are. If so, what's the process to manually purge those?

bin/discard

It is not clear from "bin/discard --help" but the file arguments are
the files data/heldmsg-*

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Mar  6 00:03:56 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 15:03:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] File Not Found error
In-Reply-To: <1110030018.28574.5.camel@espersunited.com>
Message-ID: <PC174120050305150356059307c15949@msapiro>

Michael Sullivan wrote:

>I posted this to the gentoo-user list yesterday, but since no one
>responded I'll post it here too.
>
>I've been trying all afternoon to get some response from email requests
>to subscribe to my test list.  I discovered after many hours of trying
>that the mailman daemon wasn't even running.  This confused me because I
>started it and made sure it was started before I began trying to
>subscribe to the test list.  My email requests to subscribe showed up in
>the logs as being successfully sent, but I wasn't getting any kind of
>response from mailman.  After I discovered that mailman had been
>stopped, I of course started it again.  I guess my subscription requests
>were still in the mail queue because I started seeing this printed out
>to the terminal prompt:
>
>bullet log # Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
>    qrunner.run()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
>    filecnt = self._oneloop()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in
>_oneloop
>    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 143, in
>dequeue
>    fp = open(filename)
>IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
>'/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/out/1109975934.623035
>+4cd01836ef0e6cef43795017b8bdc4487d050f37.pck'
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
>    qrunner.run()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
>    filecnt = self._oneloop()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 99, in
>_oneloop
>    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 143, in
>dequeue
>    fp = open(filename)
>IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
>'/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/out/1109976293.7504261
>+b03c5d09f70bf45f9f14f551471a278c0df63795.pck'
>
>Is this something I can fix myself, or something I need to report to the
>mailman project?  

I'm not sure if the above 'errors' are significant or not. Check your
Mailman 'error' and 'qrunner' logs for clues as to why the qrunners
stopped in the first place. Also look at 'smtp' and 'smtp-failure'
logs for possible clues as to why your responses aren't going out.

Finally, see
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Mar  6 00:28:32 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 15:28:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Safe Archive Clean
In-Reply-To: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E1812F0@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17412005030515283209533f6f17d9@msapiro>

Young, Darren wrote:

>Couple questions on archiving.
>
>First, have some lists that archives exist for that I need to remove. We
>don't support archiving so I need to blast them. What's the "safe" way
>to do this?

Set archive_private to 'private'. This should delete the
archives/public/<listname>/ directory if there was one. Then you can
delete everything in archives/private/<listname>, but it would be
safest to have an index.html file that just says there is no archive.
The satanard one is based on templates/<lang>/emptyarchive.html

>On that note (we don't support archiving), I've disabled archives on all
>lists on our server (via withlist), have set DEFAULT_ARCHIVE = Off &
>ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX to -1 in Defaults.py. Additionally, I removed the
>archive option from the UI via Defaults.py as well.
>
>Now, what I'm finding is that if a list has content filtering disabled,
>or set to allow other MIME types through (such as HTML) and if a member
>is of type digest and they have the plain option enabled for digests,
>they receive a message in their digest with a URL of where they can see
>a copy of the original message. The URL included has a pipermail address
>in it. On the server, the file was placed in that directory however I
>have pipermail disabled (since we don't support archives). Any way to
>disable this part or do I just need to wipe those archived files?

I'm not sure what you want here. If you set archive_private to
'private', the URL will be to the private archive location rather that
the pipermail location.

For HTML parts see the description of ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER in
Defaults.py.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dtownhome at earthlink.net  Sun Mar  6 01:56:55 2005
From: dtownhome at earthlink.net (Don)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 05 19:56:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb question of the day
Message-ID: <E1D7k4R-0001oY-00@pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net>


Hi;

I'd like to set up a 'test' list for a couple people to see what
they will be working with to administrate a list.  It appears to
me that giving someone administrative privelages for a specific
list will not cause any security breech of the site itself.

Therefore, my 'dumb question' for the day is...

am I correct?

Is there any "reasonable" way for someone to mess up anything
outside of that specific list?

It appears that everything is safe... but I'd like to hear
that for certain from someone who KNOWS what they are doing
far better than I do.  Sorry if this is an irritation to
anyone.

Thanks
Don



From jeremi at mividdesigns.com  Sun Mar  6 02:10:35 2005
From: jeremi at mividdesigns.com (Jeremi Bergman)
Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2005 20:10:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] solved: moderation request - zombies
In-Reply-To: <20050305072752.GB1303@oesoft.at>
References: <20050303224511.GA1538@oesoft.at> <20050305072752.GB1303@oesoft.at>
Message-ID: <422A588B.1000608@mividdesigns.com>

How did you figure this out?  I'm having this same issue, even replacing 
requests.pck with a blank one.

gerhard oettl wrote:

>>since 16.02.2005 i get a daily moderation request with
>>even if i handled all requests in the web-interface and the
>>webpage for pending requests is empty.
>>
>>    
>>
>
>1) sorry, not a mailman-error
>2) the reason: all mailing-lists moved to another server and
>after a power-off on the old server mailman was accedently 
>started again.
>The pending requests came from another machine and not from
>the current mailman listserver.
>
>
>yours
>gerhard
>
>
>  
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jeremi%40mividdesigns.com
>
>Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>



From john at wa9als.com  Sun Mar  6 02:16:19 2005
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 20:16:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List with "&" in title
Message-ID: <008301c521ea$1a609bd0$0100a8c0@wa9als>

I have a list with & in the title - Let's say a&b for an example.  This is 
causing several problems:

1.  On pages like listinfo, mailman capitalizes the first letter, so it 
appears as A&b, which is not what I want, but can tolerate.  If I try to 
make the case change only with the web interface, it won't let me.  It says 
only make case changes, and that's what I try, but it's unhappy.  No big 
deal.

2.  I also can't delete the list using bin/rmlist - The command line doesn't 
like the ampersand.  So I circumvented this by changing mm_cfg.py to allow 
list owners to delete their own list with the web interface.  OK so far.

3.  But the biggest problem is that I can't use bin/withlist commands like 
fix_url with this listname with the ampersand in it!

So my main question is - Is there a way to escape the ampersand such that I 
can run withlist or arch commands on this list, or do I just have to use 
another name?  Thanks - John



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 - Release Date: 3/4/2005



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Mar  6 02:18:15 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 17:18:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dumb question of the day
In-Reply-To: <E1D7k4R-0001oY-00@pop-a065d01.pas.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <PC17412005030517181503599c29fb76@msapiro>

Don wrote:
>
>I'd like to set up a 'test' list for a couple people to see what
>they will be working with to administrate a list.  It appears to
>me that giving someone administrative privelages for a specific
>list will not cause any security breech of the site itself.
>
>Therefore, my 'dumb question' for the day is...
>
>am I correct?

Yes

>Is there any "reasonable" way for someone to mess up anything
>outside of that specific list?

Not directly that I know of.

You have to trust them somewhat. They can do stupid things. As long as
they only subscribe themselves and maybe a few others, you are
probably OK. Consider though that they could subscribe a large list of
AOL addresses and send a message to which some significant fraction of
recipients clicks "this is spam" and then your site gets blacklisted
by AOL.

Or, they could set up a large list with "reply to list" and create a
huge mess of "stop sending me this" messages going back to the list
which can bring your server to it's knees and get you blacklisted as
above.

These things are unlikely, and if you're only talking small test list
and just mistakes and not maliciousness, you're probably fine.

>It appears that everything is safe... but I'd like to hear
>that for certain from someone who KNOWS what they are doing
>far better than I do.  Sorry if this is an irritation to
>anyone.

Doesn't hurt to be careful.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mloftis at wgops.com  Sun Mar  6 02:18:04 2005
From: mloftis at wgops.com (Michael Loftis)
Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2005 18:18:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List with "&" in title
In-Reply-To: <008301c521ea$1a609bd0$0100a8c0@wa9als>
References: <008301c521ea$1a609bd0$0100a8c0@wa9als>
Message-ID: <4447493CA1A8EEF1413057C0@[10.1.2.230]>



--On Saturday, March 05, 2005 8:16 PM -0500 John Fleming <john at wa9als.com> 
wrote:


> So my main question is - Is there a way to escape the ampersand such that
> I can run withlist or arch commands on this list, or do I just have to
> use another name?  Thanks - John

Use a single quote when referring to the list on the command line.


From john at wa9als.com  Sun Mar  6 03:01:53 2005
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 21:01:53 -0500
Subject: SOLVED!Re: [Mailman-Users] List with "&" in title
References: <008301c521ea$1a609bd0$0100a8c0@wa9als>
	<4447493CA1A8EEF1413057C0@[10.1.2.230]>
Message-ID: <008801c521f0$783b5870$0100a8c0@wa9als>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Loftis" <mloftis at wgops.com>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] List with "&" in title


>> So my main question is - Is there a way to escape the ampersand such that
>> I can run withlist or arch commands on this list, or do I just have to
>> use another name?  Thanks - John
>
> Use a single quote when referring to the list on the command line.

Thank you!  Thank you!  - John




-- 
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 - Release Date: 3/4/2005



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Mar  6 03:31:44 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 18:31:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listowners.org
In-Reply-To: <20050306012800.GZ935@mckemie.org>
Message-ID: <PC1741200503051831440078c4fb40fa@msapiro>

Willie McKemie wrote:

>On Sat, Mar 05, 2005 at 11:51:32AM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> >At 8:05 AM -0600 2005-03-04, Willie McKemie wrote:
>> >
>> >>  Mailman wishlist feature: Enable some sort of "get membership list" via
>> >>  an email command.  Even if member's addresses are "hidden".
>> >>  Alternately, some way to, at least temporarily, "un-hide" all members.
>> >>  Alternately, some way to list all members on a single web page.
>> 
>> There are some sample scripts available that script the web interface
>> to do these things See
>> http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#throughtheweb
>
>That's VERY interesting, thanks.
>
>I am not at all familiar with python.  I assume those scripts are to be 
>executed on my local system rather than my web host?

That's correct.

>I just installed 
>python and messed with the scripts some.  I first ran 
>mailman-subscribers.py with the three command line parameters.  It ran 
>a minute or two (or three), but yielded no output.

It works for me.

./mailman-subscribers.py -f www.example.com my_list my_list_pw

What happens if you use -v or --verbose?


>"Well", says I, 
>"maybe I need to first 'unhide' all members first".

You shouldn't need to.

>So, I edited 
>"unhide.py" and changed what seemed appropriate: listname and URL.

Correct.
  
>Changed 'password' and 'listpassword' on the line that begins with 
>"params".

The literal 'password' is not changed. 'listpassword' is replaced with
'the_actual_password' (i.e. it should still be quoted.)

>Ran unhide.py.  Quick execution, no errors, no output.

This one is not so useful because it reads a list of members to unhide
from the subscribers.txt local file. If you don't know who the hidden
members are, it won't help you.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lists at southernohio.net  Sun Mar  6 05:35:52 2005
From: lists at southernohio.net (lists at southernohio.net)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 23:35:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Large list import
Message-ID: <3C8048F7-4EC3-493B-A239-FA993F502FD9@southernohio.net>

I've got a list of a couple hundred thousand subscribers that I need to 
mass subscribe, however the file upload import keeps returning an 
"internal error."  Is there a better way to do this, such as uploading 
the lists to the server manually and cat'ing it onto the end of some 
sort of store that Mailman uses?

-George


From mloftis at wgops.com  Sun Mar  6 05:53:51 2005
From: mloftis at wgops.com (Michael Loftis)
Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2005 21:53:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Large list import
In-Reply-To: <3C8048F7-4EC3-493B-A239-FA993F502FD9@southernohio.net>
References: <3C8048F7-4EC3-493B-A239-FA993F502FD9@southernohio.net>
Message-ID: <53617D52A525686B3D92D5AC@[10.1.2.230]>



--On Saturday, March 05, 2005 11:35 PM -0500 lists at southernohio.net wrote:

> I've got a list of a couple hundred thousand subscribers that I need to
> mass subscribe, however the file upload import keeps returning an
> "internal error."  Is there a better way to do this, such as uploading
> the lists to the server manually and cat'ing it onto the end of some sort
> of store that Mailman uses?

YEah there are CLI tools to do the additions but I dont' think you'll want 
to do this...

At ~15k subscribers on a list we have it's pudgy and slow, it'd be 
unusuable at 200k.  Mailman rewrites the entire config.pck/list config file 
for every add/remove/change on a list.  Very inefficient, very unscaleable.

I'm poking around at the code lately deciding if I'll tackle the job of 
fixing that or not...but until then you might want to do something with a 
sort of umbrella/sub list approach.




From msapiro at value.net  Sun Mar  6 06:04:11 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 21:04:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Large list import
In-Reply-To: <3C8048F7-4EC3-493B-A239-FA993F502FD9@southernohio.net>
Message-ID: <PC17412005030521041102349a285455@msapiro>

lists at southernohio.net wrote:

>I've got a list of a couple hundred thousand subscribers that I need to 
>mass subscribe, however the file upload import keeps returning an 
>"internal error."  Is there a better way to do this, such as uploading 
>the lists to the server manually and cat'ing it onto the end of some 
>sort of store that Mailman uses?

That's a LARGE list. See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.015.htp

It sounds like you're using web mass subscribe. Is that the case? You
might be better off with bin/add_members, but you should probably run
it without notifications or welcome messages. See the entire thread
starting at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-January/041736.html

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lists at southernohio.net  Sun Mar  6 06:07:17 2005
From: lists at southernohio.net (lists at southernohio.net)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 00:07:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Large list import
In-Reply-To: <53617D52A525686B3D92D5AC@[10.1.2.230]>
References: <3C8048F7-4EC3-493B-A239-FA993F502FD9@southernohio.net>
	<53617D52A525686B3D92D5AC@[10.1.2.230]>
Message-ID: <A8A3F10D-C09F-416B-B504-0A57A9193F7C@southernohio.net>

Fortunately this person wants the list to be completely moderated so  
that there will not be back and forth traffice, just outbound.  Will  
this help matters and make it snappy enough?  Oh, I just read the rest  
of your message!  :)  It appears that it truly is handling things  
inefficiently in the list subscriber IO.  Wow, this is a real problem.   
What should I do?  Are there other solutions that are better than  
Mailman for this?  Not quite sure what you mean by the umbrella/sub  
list approach.

Thanks for the heads up!



On Mar 5, 2005, at 11:53 PM, Michael Loftis wrote:



--On Saturday, March 05, 2005 11:35 PM -0500 lists at southernohio.net  
wrote:

> I've got a list of a couple hundred thousand subscribers that I need  
> to
> mass subscribe, however the file upload import keeps returning an
> "internal error."  Is there a better way to do this, such as uploading
> the lists to the server manually and cat'ing it onto the end of some  
> sort
> of store that Mailman uses?

YEah there are CLI tools to do the additions but I dont' think you'll  
want to do this...

At ~15k subscribers on a list we have it's pudgy and slow, it'd be  
unusuable at 200k.  Mailman rewrites the entire config.pck/list config  
file for every add/remove/change on a list.  Very inefficient, very  
unscaleable.

I'm poking around at the code lately deciding if I'll tackle the job of  
fixing that or not...but until then you might want to do something with  
a sort of umbrella/sub list approach.


------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives:  
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:  
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/lists% 
40southernohio.net

Security Policy:  
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From mloftis at wgops.com  Sun Mar  6 06:34:46 2005
From: mloftis at wgops.com (Michael Loftis)
Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2005 22:34:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Large list import
In-Reply-To: <A8A3F10D-C09F-416B-B504-0A57A9193F7C@southernohio.net>
References: <3C8048F7-4EC3-493B-A239-FA993F502FD9@southernohio.net>
	<53617D52A525686B3D92D5AC@[10.1.2.230]>
	<A8A3F10D-C09F-416B-B504-0A57A9193F7C@southernohio.net>
Message-ID: <09ED4B0134C5400EE80BC7EE@[10.1.2.230]>



--On Sunday, March 06, 2005 12:07 AM -0500 lists at southernohio.net wrote:

> Fortunately this person wants the list to be completely moderated so
> that there will not be back and forth traffice, just outbound.  Will
> this help matters and make it snappy enough?  Oh, I just read the rest
> of your message!  :)  It appears that it truly is handling things
> inefficiently in the list subscriber IO.  Wow, this is a real problem.
> What should I do?  Are there other solutions that are better than
> Mailman for this?  Not quite sure what you mean by the umbrella/sub  list
> approach.
>
> Thanks for the heads up!

Multiple lists each woth ~10k or ~15k subscribers, and then one master list 
with all those sub-lists subscribed.

Sub lists configured to only take postings formt he master list....this 
DOES complicate subscribing though.

so YMWV :)


From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Sun Mar  6 08:08:38 2005
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2005 16:08:38 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Safe Archive Clean
In-Reply-To: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E1812F0@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>
References: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E1812F0@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <422AAC76.8030504@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi,

Young, Darren wrote:

> Now, what I'm finding is that if a list has content filtering disabled,
> or set to allow other MIME types through (such as HTML) and if a member
> is of type digest and they have the plain option enabled for digests,
> they receive a message in their digest with a URL of where they can see
> a copy of the original message. The URL included has a pipermail address
> in it. On the server, the file was placed in that directory however I
> have pipermail disabled (since we don't support archives). Any way to
> disable this part or do I just need to wipe those archived files?

Currently, the plain text digest saves attachments in the pipermail area 
on the hypothis that the archive is available. Or, the digest members 
have no means to get the attachments other than to decode MIME manually. 
You should wipe the archive periodically if you don't want those to be 
kept in the archive area. You may also have to tell the list owners (and 
users) your policy and not to use plain text digests but use mime digests.

You will have to hack the code if you want to do this silently.

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/



From john at wa9als.com  Sun Mar  6 14:01:10 2005
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 08:01:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] More on ampersand in listname
Message-ID: <003e01c5224c$91e12f00$0100a8c0@wa9als>

Well, it let me create the list and I could use bin/withlist commands on it 
by enclosing listname in single quotes.  Everything looked fine, but when I 
tried my first post to the list, I got this back:

The Postfix program

<S&L@<domain>.org>: Command died with status 127:
    "/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post s&l". Command output: sh: line 1: l:
    command not found post script, list not found: s

So is ampersand in listname just not allowed?  - John



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 - Release Date: 3/4/2005



From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Sun Mar  6 14:28:43 2005
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2005 07:28:43 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] More on ampersand in listname
In-Reply-To: <003e01c5224c$91e12f00$0100a8c0@wa9als>
Message-ID: <BE5061AB.851F%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 3/6/05 7:01 AM, John Fleming at john at wa9als.com wrote:

> Well, it let me create the list and I could use bin/withlist commands on it
> by enclosing listname in single quotes.  Everything looked fine, but when I
> tried my first post to the list, I got this back:
> 
> The Postfix program
> 
> <S&L@<domain>.org>: Command died with status 127:
>     "/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post s&l". Command output: sh: line 1: l:
>     command not found post script, list not found: s
> 
> So is ampersand in listname just not allowed?  - John

I'd stay away from an ampersand. It has a special meaning in Unix commands
(means execute the previous command in the background) and unless properly
escaped, will be taken for that special meaning every time it occurs in a
shell command.

The command in that error message (/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post s&l)
is a shell command and as I would expect, it was truncated at the ampersand
and presumably executed in the background.

-- Larry Stone
   larry at stonejongleux.com
   http://www.stonejongleux.com/
   




From john at wa9als.com  Sun Mar  6 14:33:15 2005
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 08:33:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] More on ampersand in listname
References: <BE5061AB.851F%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <000701c52251$11819ed0$0100a8c0@wa9als>

> I'd stay away from an ampersand. It has a special meaning in Unix commands
> (means execute the previous command in the background) and unless properly
> escaped, will be taken for that special meaning every time it occurs in a
> shell command.

Thanks, Larry.  I didn't find anything about it in the FAQ.  Maybe something 
about that should be included in the help link for listname in the web 
interface.  Just a thought... 



From mckemie at spamcop.net  Sun Mar  6 02:28:00 2005
From: mckemie at spamcop.net (Willie McKemie)
Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2005 19:28:00 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listowners.org
In-Reply-To: <PC174120050305115132039076244f66@msapiro>
References: <p0620074cbe4e28944911@[10.0.1.3]>
	<PC174120050305115132039076244f66@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20050306012800.GZ935@mckemie.org>

On Sat, Mar 05, 2005 at 11:51:32AM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >At 8:05 AM -0600 2005-03-04, Willie McKemie wrote:
> >
> >>  Mailman wishlist feature: Enable some sort of "get membership list" via
> >>  an email command.  Even if member's addresses are "hidden".
> >>  Alternately, some way to, at least temporarily, "un-hide" all members.
> >>  Alternately, some way to list all members on a single web page.
> 
> There are some sample scripts available that script the web interface
> to do these things See
> http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#throughtheweb

That's VERY interesting, thanks.

I am not at all familiar with python.  I assume those scripts are to be 
executed on my local system rather than my web host?  I just installed 
python and messed with the scripts some.  I first ran 
mailman-subscribers.py with the three command line parameters.  It ran 
a minute or two (or three), but yielded no output.  "Well", says I, 
"maybe I need to first 'unhide' all members first".  So, I edited 
"unhide.py" and changed what seemed appropriate: listname and URL.  
Changed 'password' and 'listpassword' on the line that begins with 
"params".  Ran unhide.py.  Quick execution, no errors, no output.

A bit more help?

-- 
Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Linux system uptime  251 days  8 hours 26 minutes


From mckemie at spamcop.net  Sun Mar  6 12:53:35 2005
From: mckemie at spamcop.net (Willie McKemie)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 05:53:35 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listowners.org
In-Reply-To: <PC1741200503052027480718bd7307fe@msapiro>
References: <20050306031701.GB935@mckemie.org>
	<PC1741200503052027480718bd7307fe@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20050306115335.GC935@mckemie.org>

On Sat, Mar 05, 2005 at 08:27:48PM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >> 
> >> This one is not so useful because it reads a list of members to unhide
> >> from the subscribers.txt local file. If you don't know who the hidden
> >> members are, it won't help you.
> >
> >Does mailman-subscribers.py list "hidden" subscribers?
> 
> Yes. It uses the admin Membership List page which it assumes it
> accesses via http://<hostname>/mailman/admin/<listname>/members. This
> lists all members, hidden or not.
> 
> >
> >If you are willing or care to diddle, I set up a maillist "test", 
> >password <omitted>.
> 
> 
> If I try to go to http://www.austinfarm.org/mailman/admin/test or to
> http://www.austinfarm.org/mailman/admin/homegrown/ or
> http://www.austinfarm.org/mailman/admin/test/members or
> http://www.austinfarm.org/mailman/admin/homegrown/members
> I get the generic admin page with the error message "No such list test"
> or "No such list homegrown".
> 
> Until you can access these list's admin interfaces with a web browser,
> you won't be able to do it with the script either.
> 
> Can you access the admin interface with a web browser? If so, what URL?
> If not http://<hostname>/mailman/admin/<listname>/members, you'll have
> to modify the script like the following (watch for folded lines):

HOT DAMN!

The list names are <expectedlistname>_austinfarm.org.  URLs:
http://austinfarm.org/mailman/admin
http://austinfarm.org/mailman/admin/test_austinfarm.org
etc

I had been accessing lists through links on 
http://austinfarm.org/mailman/admin and not paying close attention to 
those links.

AND.... mailman-subscribers.py works for me as advertised!

Is there somewhere on the mailman site that I should post my 
experience?  To make the path easier for those following?
In particular, mailman-subscribers.py should be easier to find than it 
seems to be.

-- 
Willie, ONWARD!  Through the fog!
http://counter.li.org Linux registered user #228836 since 1995
Linux system uptime  251 days 18 hours 46 minutes


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Mar  6 16:46:19 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 16:46:19 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listowners.org
In-Reply-To: <20050306115335.GC935@mckemie.org>
References: <20050306031701.GB935@mckemie.org>
	<PC1741200503052027480718bd7307fe@msapiro>
	<20050306115335.GC935@mckemie.org>
Message-ID: <p0620076cbe50d581d164@[10.0.1.3]>

At 5:53 AM -0600 2005-03-06, Willie McKemie wrote:

>  The list names are <expectedlistname>_austinfarm.org.  URLs:
>  http://austinfarm.org/mailman/admin
>  http://austinfarm.org/mailman/admin/test_austinfarm.org
>  etc

	This sounds like you're using a version of Mailman that has been 
hacked to support virtual domains, either by cPanel, or something 
along the lines of 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.047.htp>.

	Either way, these are hacks to the Mailman code, and the display 
is necessarily a little different from what you would expect from a 
standard installation.  That would certainly explain your confusion.

>  Is there somewhere on the mailman site that I should post my
>  experience?  To make the path easier for those following?
>  In particular, mailman-subscribers.py should be easier to find than it
>  seems to be.

	You can always add something to the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py>.  We would ask that you 
look over the entries there and try to find the right section, but 
beyond that it's pretty much up to you what you want to put there.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From michael at espersunited.com  Sun Mar  6 18:37:38 2005
From: michael at espersunited.com (Michael Sullivan)
Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2005 11:37:38 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restoring mailman
Message-ID: <1110130658.18664.19.camel@espersunited.com>

About a month ago I had a year-old version of mailman running on my
Fedora Core 1 mail server.  FC1 installed mailman in /var/mailman, which
I added to my daily backup schedule.  I have since then wiped the FC1
box and installed Gentoo on it.  I have finally gotten mailman to work
properly.  On the old installation I had a small mailing list for
exchanging news among my family.  I am wondering how to move the old
mailman's settings and subscriber data for my family's list without
having access to the old mailman's interface.  I looked in the FAQ, but
the only thing I found would have required me to have access to the old
mailman.  I have successfully set up the list (via bin/newlist) and
moved the archives for that list from their old position in the backup
archive to their respective position in the new mailman installation
file hierarchy, but I can't seem to find the file that contains the
subscriber list.  Is it possible to obtain the subscriber list without
access to the old mailman interface?



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Mar  6 20:15:48 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 11:15:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] More on ampersand in listname
In-Reply-To: <000701c52251$11819ed0$0100a8c0@wa9als>
Message-ID: <PC174120050306111548006226e6df4e@msapiro>

John Fleming wrote:

Larry Stone wrote:

>> I'd stay away from an ampersand. It has a special meaning in Unix commands
>> (means execute the previous command in the background) and unless properly
>> escaped, will be taken for that special meaning every time it occurs in a
>> shell command.
>
>Thanks, Larry.  I didn't find anything about it in the FAQ.  Maybe something 
>about that should be included in the help link for listname in the web 
>interface.  Just a thought... 

Larry's advice is probably the best to follow, but you could quote the
list name in the aliases, e.g.

s&l:  |/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post 's&l'

and so forth. You would have to manually edit the aliases file for each
such list, but it would probably get you around this issue and on to
the next :-)

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Mar  6 20:38:37 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 11:38:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restoring mailman
In-Reply-To: <1110130658.18664.19.camel@espersunited.com>
Message-ID: <PC1741200503061138370781b79d8b92@msapiro>

Michael Sullivan wrote:

>About a month ago I had a year-old version of mailman running on my
>Fedora Core 1 mail server.  FC1 installed mailman in /var/mailman, which
>I added to my daily backup schedule.
<snip>
>Is it possible to obtain the subscriber list without
>access to the old mailman interface?

It is /var/mailman/lists/<listname>/config.pck if the old version is
2.1.x or /var/mailman/lists/<listname>/config.db if older.

If it is config.pck, just replace the config.pck for the newly created
list with the one from the backup. This should restore subscribers,
list configuration, subscriber options, etc. from the old list
configuration.

If the old file is a config.db, you would need to restore the old
config.db to the new lists/<listname>/ directory and also remove any
existing config.pck and config.pck.last files from that directory.
Mailman should then be able to update the list configuration and store
it as a pickle in config.pck, but there may be problems with this due
to (as I understand it) the format of a Python marshal (the config.db
file) not being constant across Python versions. I.e. Mailman will be
able to convert it iff the Python on the new system can read it.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ralph at netzbeben.de  Sun Mar  6 20:43:58 2005
From: ralph at netzbeben.de (=?ISO-8859-15?B?UmFscGggUGhpbGlwcCBG/GhyZXI=?=)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 20:43:58 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman sends no mail
Message-ID: <43712344.20050306204358@netzbeben.de>


After setting a net footnote for a mailing list, mailman doesn't send mails anymore. i checked the systemlog, "mailman post" is executed as usual and quits without any error. crons are running as usual, too. if i send a mail to one of the mailinglists, mailman would eat it but wouldn't do something else.

maybe anyone has an idea what happened or where to look at to solve the problem?!?

thanks.




From sb.list at sb.org  Sun Mar  6 20:56:57 2005
From: sb.list at sb.org (Stonewall Ballard)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 14:56:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need help with "content filtering"
In-Reply-To: <PC17412005030509462307969fa01a93@msapiro>
References: <PC17412005030509462307969fa01a93@msapiro>
Message-ID: <7a3c631a04c0cd589ae90409fef03782@sb.org>


On Mar 5, 2005, at 12:46 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> I think what's going on here is the original message is
> multipart/alternative with both a text/plain part and a text/html
> part. If more than one sub-part remains in a multipart/alternative
> part after filtering, Mailman selects the first remaining alternative
> which would be the text/plain part in this case.

This was a problem with my users until I discovered that Outlook seems 
to send the text part first, but other mail clients sent the html part 
first, so html was getting through only for people who didn't use 
Outlook.

But I don't see the point of removing all but one alternative part. Why 
does Mailman do that?

  - Stoney



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Mar  6 21:12:26 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 21:12:26 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman sends no mail
In-Reply-To: <43712344.20050306204358@netzbeben.de>
References: <43712344.20050306204358@netzbeben.de>
Message-ID: <p0620076ebe51148f98d9@[10.0.1.3]>

At 8:43 PM +0100 2005-03-06, Ralph Philipp F?hrer wrote:

>  maybe anyone has an idea what happened or where to look at to solve
>  the problem?!?

	Go to the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> and search for 
"troubleshooting".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Mar  6 21:38:38 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 12:38:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need help with "content filtering"
In-Reply-To: <7a3c631a04c0cd589ae90409fef03782@sb.org>
Message-ID: <PC17412005030612383800006ece4286@msapiro>

Stonewall Ballard wrote:
>
>On Mar 5, 2005, at 12:46 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> I think what's going on here is the original message is
>> multipart/alternative with both a text/plain part and a text/html
>> part. If more than one sub-part remains in a multipart/alternative
>> part after filtering, Mailman selects the first remaining alternative
>> which would be the text/plain part in this case.
>
>This was a problem with my users until I discovered that Outlook seems 
>to send the text part first, but other mail clients sent the html part 
>first, so html was getting through only for people who didn't use 
>Outlook.

This would appear to be a violation of RFC 2046 section 5.1.4 which
says in part "... the alternatives appear in an order of increasing
faithfulness to the original content."


>But I don't see the point of removing all but one alternative part. Why 
>does Mailman do that?

To reduce the size of the outgoing message. This can be a significant
reduction.

Also, to support the idea that posts received from mailing lists should
be intelligible to the maximum number of recipients, some of whom may
by choice or necessity not use MIME aware MUAs.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Mon Mar  7 00:36:37 2005
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2005 18:36:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Making Web UI Valid XHTML
In-Reply-To: <PC1741200503051342450750c24b623b@msapiro>
References: <4229A844.10162.13D4BBC@localhost>
Message-ID: <422B4DB5.17984.22DDA45@localhost>

On 5 Mar 2005 at 13:42, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Bryan Carbonnell wrote:
> >
> >1) Can anyone give me some quick pointers on how to make it, so that
> >it's a standard patch file, if such a thing exists.
> 
> A unified context diff is the preferred format for a patch. This is
> the '-u' option.

Thanks Mark.

> >2) Would I be better off working with 2.1.5 or 2.1.6 source? I know
> >that the 2.1.6 is still in late beta.
> 
> I would recommend 2.1.6, although for the templates at least, there's
> no difference - see

Hoopefully I should have the start of a patch, the listinfo pages at 
least, within the next few days. At which point I'll post it to 
sourceforge.

Thanks again Mark.

-- 
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
Happiness comes through doors you didn't even know you left open. 




From cpz at tuunq.com  Mon Mar  7 03:46:28 2005
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 18:46:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] More on ampersand in listname
In-Reply-To: <PC174120050306111548006226e6df4e@msapiro> from Mark Sapiro at
	"Mar 6, 2005 11:15:48 am"
Message-ID: <20050307024628.76B167AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Larry Stone wrote:
> 
> >> I'd stay away from an ampersand. It has a special meaning in Unix commands
> >> (means execute the previous command in the background) and unless properly
> >> escaped, will be taken for that special meaning every time it occurs in a
> >> shell command.
> 
> Larry's advice is probably the best to follow, but you could quote the
> list name in the aliases, e.g.

I'll also suggest that while the ampersand is a legal character for
the local part of a mail address, as are a handful of other interesting
characters (like '#' and '=', see rfc2822 3.4.2 and 3.4.1), using anything 
other than letters and numerals is likely to cause fairly elusive problems 
in the long run. Oh, and dashes ('-') are generally safe.

z!



From dtownhome at earthlink.net  Mon Mar  7 06:38:28 2005
From: dtownhome at earthlink.net (Don)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 05 00:38:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preinstalled subject
Message-ID: <E1D8AwT-0003dN-00@pop-a065d14.pas.sa.earthlink.net>



Hi everyone;

Perhaps this issue might actually be somewhat more a html question more 
than mailman issue. Since mailman allows topics to be used, it makes 
sense to me that it fits here though.  

Id like to have someone click a link to send an email (that has a 
specific topic) and have the email program insert the subject directly 
into the subject line of the email as it also inserts the "send to" email 
address for that list.

I'm sure there must be a way to do that directly through the html?  If it 
works, it will stop a LOT of frustrations about subject line spelling 
errors.

What would the syntax be?

As a related item, does the subject line get checked (counted by the 
software) when topics check mail content to decide which subscribers get 
a given 'topics enabled' mail?

Thanks
Don



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar  7 06:56:47 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 21:56:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Preinstalled subject
In-Reply-To: <E1D8AwT-0003dN-00@pop-a065d14.pas.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <PC1741200503062156470328377b3937@msapiro>

Don wrote:
>
>Id like to have someone click a link to send an email (that has a 
>specific topic) and have the email program insert the subject directly 
>into the subject line of the email as it also inserts the "send to" email 
>address for that list.
>
>I'm sure there must be a way to do that directly through the html?  If it 
>works, it will stop a LOT of frustrations about subject line spelling 
>errors.
>
>What would the syntax be?

<a href="mailto:user at example.com?subject=The desired subject">
Link text</a>

>As a related item, does the subject line get checked (counted by the 
>software) when topics check mail content to decide which subscribers get 
>a given 'topics enabled' mail?

Yes

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dave at umiacs.umd.edu  Mon Mar  7 14:18:09 2005
From: dave at umiacs.umd.edu (dave at umiacs.umd.edu)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 08:18:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sender bounce line?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0503070758380.29763@reticle.umiacs.umd.edu>

We have a list that appears to be filtered by recipients at verizon. 
Specifically, they can post but never receive and are ultimately 
unsubscribed due to bounces.  mailman logs look otherwise normal.
The theory is that the line:

Sender:LISTNAME-bounces at ourdomain.com

triggers filtering by verizon which sounds bogus to me. More likely, it's
the users MUA as defined in
   http://www.washington.edu/computing/mailman/faqs/mailman.header.html

Haven't had a chance yet to talk to one of these people and get more
details and try to talk directly to port 25 and add that line. If
that is the case, I'm tempted to modify the bounces alias for that 
list altho that seems a harsh way to fix things.

Has anyone else had a similar problem? Is the above header configurable?
Can it be turned off somehow?

Thanks



  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-  generated by /dev/dave -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  David Stern                                    University of Maryland
            Institute for Advanced Computer Studies


From sythos at sythos.net  Mon Mar  7 14:36:09 2005
From: sythos at sythos.net (Sythos)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 14:36:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sender bounce line?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0503070758380.29763@reticle.umiacs.umd.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0503070758380.29763@reticle.umiacs.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <20050307133609.GA9418@sythos.net>

On Mon, Mar 07, 2005 at 08:18:09AM -0500, dave at umiacs.umd.edu wrote:
> Has anyone else had a similar problem? Is the above header configurable?
> Can it be turned off somehow?

Do you have a VERP capable MTA? Every email have a different SENDER...

Regards
	Sythos

-- 

Sythos - http://www.sythos.net
  ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
  /\                        - against M$ attachments
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From Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu  Mon Mar  7 17:59:17 2005
From: Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu (Young, Darren)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 10:59:17 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Safe Archive Clean
Message-ID: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E0541FE@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>

Is it safe to simply do something such as this in the archive directory:
 
find /home/mailman/archives/private -ctime +30 -exec rm -fr {} \;
 
 

	-----Original Message----- 
	From: Tokio Kikuchi [mailto:tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp] 
	Sent: Sun 3/6/2005 1:08 AM 
	To: Young, Darren 
	Cc: mailman-users at python.org 
	Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Safe Archive Clean
	
	

	Hi,
	
	Young, Darren wrote:
	
	> Now, what I'm finding is that if a list has content filtering disabled,
	> or set to allow other MIME types through (such as HTML) and if a member
	> is of type digest and they have the plain option enabled for digests,
	> they receive a message in their digest with a URL of where they can see
	> a copy of the original message. The URL included has a pipermail address
	> in it. On the server, the file was placed in that directory however I
	> have pipermail disabled (since we don't support archives). Any way to
	> disable this part or do I just need to wipe those archived files?
	
	Currently, the plain text digest saves attachments in the pipermail area
	on the hypothis that the archive is available. Or, the digest members
	have no means to get the attachments other than to decode MIME manually.
	You should wipe the archive periodically if you don't want those to be
	kept in the archive area. You may also have to tell the list owners (and
	users) your policy and not to use plain text digests but use mime digests.
	
	You will have to hack the code if you want to do this silently.
	
	--
	Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
	http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/
	
	


From Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu  Mon Mar  7 18:01:18 2005
From: Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu (Young, Darren)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 11:01:18 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman/data directory
Message-ID: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E0541FF@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>

Wow, discard is slow. Locking of the list seems to take quite a bit of time (i/o perhaps) so I am only able to discard around 15 messages a minute. System is heavily loaded as is though. Any way to speed that process up?

	-----Original Message----- 
	From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
	Sent: Sat 3/5/2005 4:47 PM 
	To: Young, Darren; mailman-users at python.org 
	Cc: 
	Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman/data directory
	
	

	Young, Darren wrote:
	
	>What are the heldmsg files in the Mailman data directory? They all seem
	>to be held messages for lists, yes?
	
	Yes
	
	>On that note, the file in the lists/<listname> directory, called
	>request.pck, is that a pointer to all of those files specific to that
	>list?
	
	Yes, but it contains other requests too such as unconfirmed
	subscriptions, unconfirmed address changes, etc.
	
	>Reason I ask, the data directory on our server has 147,000 files in it
	>(and it's getting rather large). List admins/moderators have this
	>tendency of not tending to pending requests so it seems that what all
	>those are. If so, what's the process to manually purge those?
	
	bin/discard
	
	It is not clear from "bin/discard --help" but the file arguments are
	the files data/heldmsg-*
	
	--
	Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
	San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
	
	


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar  7 19:06:36 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 10:06:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman/data directory
In-Reply-To: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E0541FF@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17412005030710063603058f9466b5@msapiro>

Young, Darren wrote:

>Wow, discard is slow. Locking of the list seems to take quite a bit of time (i/o perhaps) so I am only able to discard around 15 messages a minute. System is heavily loaded as is though. Any way to speed that process up?
>

How are you running bin/discard? are you running in a shell script one
file at a time or giving it a list of files? You may not be able to do
"bin/discard data/heldmsg*" with IIRC 147,000 files, but you should
give discard as big a chunk as you can.

Locking, saving and unlocking a list is slow for a large list, but
discard only does that once per list, even if given many files for
that list.

OTOH, it may be slow because of a large number of request.pck entries.
If this is the case, it should get faster as entries are deleted.

Also, once the 147K files are gone, it would be a good idea to compact
the data/ directory by copying its remaining contents to a new
directory with the same permissions, deleting data/ and renaming the
new directory to data/ (safest to stop Mailman while doing this). It
may even help speed things up to discard a chunk, compact the data/
directory, discard another chunk, etc.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar  7 19:17:29 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 10:17:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sender bounce line?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0503070758380.29763@reticle.umiacs.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1741200503071017290274be25656f@msapiro>

dave at umiacs.umd.edu wrote:

>We have a list that appears to be filtered by recipients at verizon. 
>Specifically, they can post but never receive and are ultimately 
>unsubscribed due to bounces.  mailman logs look otherwise normal.
>The theory is that the line:
>
>Sender:LISTNAME-bounces at ourdomain.com
>
>triggers filtering by verizon which sounds bogus to me. More likely, it's
>the users MUA as defined in
>   http://www.washington.edu/computing/mailman/faqs/mailman.header.html

I don't think it's the MUA. MUA filters don't usually result in bounces.

The users could try "whitelisting" LISTNAME-bounces at ourdomain.com if
verizon offers such an option. If it is the MUA, adding the address to
the MUA's address book may help.

Can the users receive other (non-list) mail from ourdomain.com?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jwblist at olympus.net  Mon Mar  7 19:41:25 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 10:41:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Safe Archive Clean
In-Reply-To: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E0541FE@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <BE51E055.2ED1%jwblist@olympus.net>

Yes unless find finds "too many" files that match, in which case it's more
like
find /home/mailman/archives/private -ctime +30 | xargs rm -rf

xargs will batch the calls to rm with reasonable numbers of files (man xargs
for controlling batch size and other goodies)  And it will do other fun
things.  (I'm trusting your -ctime +30 predicate to find.)

If you can use exec ls {}
you can probably exec the rm.  (I always test my find blah | xargs with
something benign like ls before punging ahead.)

The xargs thing is faster for any non-small file count even if the exec
method works, and it's friendlier to the machine.

  --John


On 3/7/2005 8:59, "Young, Darren" <Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu> wrote:

> Is it safe to simply do something such as this in the archive directory:
>  
> find /home/mailman/archives/private -ctime +30 -exec rm -fr {} \;
>  
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tokio Kikuchi [mailto:tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp]
> Sent: Sun 3/6/2005 1:08 AM
> To: Young, Darren
> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Safe Archive Clean
> 
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Young, Darren wrote:
> 
>> Now, what I'm finding is that if a list has content filtering disabled,
>> or set to allow other MIME types through (such as HTML) and if a member
>> is of type digest and they have the plain option enabled for digests,
>> they receive a message in their digest with a URL of where they can see
>> a copy of the original message. The URL included has a pipermail address
>> in it. On the server, the file was placed in that directory however I
>> have pipermail disabled (since we don't support archives). Any way to
>> disable this part or do I just need to wipe those archived files?
> 
> Currently, the plain text digest saves attachments in the pipermail area
> on the hypothis that the archive is available. Or, the digest members
> have no means to get the attachments other than to decode MIME manually.
> You should wipe the archive periodically if you don't want those to be
> kept in the archive area. You may also have to tell the list owners (and
> users) your policy and not to use plain text digests but use mime digests.
> 
> You will have to hack the code if you want to do this silently.
> 
> --
> Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
> http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jwblist%40olympus.net
> 
> Security Policy: 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From dave at umiacs.umd.edu  Mon Mar  7 19:41:33 2005
From: dave at umiacs.umd.edu (dave at umiacs.umd.edu)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 13:41:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sender bounce line?
In-Reply-To: <PC1741200503071017290274be25656f@msapiro>
References: <PC1741200503071017290274be25656f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0503071338010.1147@reticle.umiacs.umd.edu>

On Mon, 7 Mar 2005, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> dave at umiacs.umd.edu wrote:
>
>> We have a list that appears to be filtered by recipients at verizon.
>> Specifically, they can post but never receive and are ultimately
>> unsubscribed due to bounces.  mailman logs look otherwise normal.
>> The theory is that the line:
>>
>> Sender:LISTNAME-bounces at ourdomain.com
>>
>> triggers filtering by verizon which sounds bogus to me. More likely, it's
>> the users MUA as defined in
>>   http://www.washington.edu/computing/mailman/faqs/mailman.header.html
>
> I don't think it's the MUA. MUA filters don't usually result in bounces.

Probably correct as this is happening exclusive and to all verizon people
on a bunch of our lists


> The users could try "whitelisting" LISTNAME-bounces at ourdomain.com if
> verizon offers such an option. If it is the MUA, adding the address to
> the MUA's address book may help.
>
> Can the users receive other (non-list) mail from ourdomain.com?

Yes, indicating some MM header is the problem but I have no other 
info and I can't get anything useful out of telnetting to port 25
and writing raw smtp commands so I'm gonna punt. It's gotta be the
remote end of which I have no control so I sent the problem description
to postmaster at sucky.verizon.net as well as the DNS email for verizon's SOA.



  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-  generated by /dev/dave -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  David Stern                                    University of Maryland
            Institute for Advanced Computer Studies


From ler at lerctr.org  Mon Mar  7 20:11:32 2005
From: ler at lerctr.org (Larry Rosenman)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 13:11:32 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sender bounce line?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0503071338010.1147@reticle.umiacs.umd.edu>
References: <PC1741200503071017290274be25656f@msapiro>
	<Pine.GSO.4.61.0503071338010.1147@reticle.umiacs.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <200503071311.32872.ler@lerctr.org>

On Monday 07 March 2005 12:41 pm, dave at umiacs.umd.edu wrote:

>
> Yes, indicating some MM header is the problem but I have no other
> info and I can't get anything useful out of telnetting to port 25
> and writing raw smtp commands so I'm gonna punt. It's gotta be the
> remote end of which I have no control so I sent the problem description
> to postmaster at sucky.verizon.net as well as the DNS email for verizon's SOA.

Verizon has a known busted callout mechanism.

I had to:
1) turn off SMTP sync for them
2) turn down the IDENT (port 113) timeout from 30secs.

see the threads on:
exim-users
spam-l

and my blog:
http://blog.lerctr.org/

LER


-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 214-351-4152                 E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
US Mail: 3535 Gaspar Drive, Dallas, TX 75220-3611


From dave at boost-consulting.com  Tue Mar  8 03:47:41 2005
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 21:47:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Inconsistent post approval options
References: <PC174120050304081736043752bb14d9@msapiro>
	<PC174120050304083614053121176141@msapiro>
Message-ID: <ur7iqrgz6.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> writes:

> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>>However, both list membership and moderation are handled in the
>>Moderate handler which normally comes before Hold in the pipeline, so
>>presumably, the poster of this message is a list member and is not
>>moderated if this list uses the default pipline.
>
> Except, as Brad correctly notes, this post looks like it came from a
> non-member because the "Add to filters" and Ban options are shown as
> opposed to the notation that the poster is a list member. Maybe the
> list does use a non-default pipeline 

I seriously doubt that.  DongInn, you didn't do anything funky with
the Mailman filter pipeline, did you?

> or maybe I'm missing something in the sequence of how these are
> handled.

I think we still have a mystery here, then.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Mar  8 09:03:29 2005
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 17:03:29 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unknown encoding error
In-Reply-To: <PC17412005030409255506099642f638@msapiro> (Mark Sapiro's
	message of "Fri, 4 Mar 2005 09:25:55 -0800")
References: <PC17412005030409255506099642f638@msapiro>
Message-ID: <87u0nmef8u.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Mark" == Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> writes:

    Mark> Someone has posted a message to the list with the Subject:
    Mark> encoded in the gb2312 (Chinese) character set. It appears
    Mark> your Python doesn't support this character set, but it also
    Mark> looks like the code in CookHeaders.py protects against
    Mark> LookupError, so I'm not sure what's going on in detail.

In vanilla 2.1.5 there are a couple of paths to that error, I forget
the details, but the test in CookHeaders.py definitely didn't protect
all of them.  I posted a bug report to the tracker about one I found
months ago.

I'm fairly sure that Kikuchi-san fixed this later as part of some
other changes, so you could upgrade, or look for my bug report if I'm
wrong about the fix.


-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From waynec at spinnaker.com  Tue Mar  8 13:20:09 2005
From: waynec at spinnaker.com (Wayne Chapeskie)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 04:20:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Use of 'mailman' site list
Message-ID: <20050308122009.GA34689@spinnaker.com>

I have been converting some lists from majordomo to Mailman, and have
run into a bit of a question regarding the use of the "mailman" site
list.  Does anything ever send to this list, or is it expected that
any human will ever send to this list?

The INSTALL file in the mailman documentation tells you to make sure
you (the site administrator) are subscribed to the list.  It also recommends
configuring the "mailman" site list with the template in
data/sitelist.cfg.  This template sets the generic_nonmember_action to
"reject".  Therefore, if any non-member tries to post to the list,
they get the usual reject message, and there is no pending message for
the list owner to look at.  However, the default web page generated
for both http://dom.ain/mailman/admin and
http://dom.ain/mailman/listinfo contains the advice:

    If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact
    mailman at dom.ain

Which is not possible for the user to do, given the recommended
configuration of the site list.  Which corresponds with the way the
list is intended to be used, the sitelist.cfg configuration, or the
web page message?

Thanks,

-- 
Wayne Chapeskie


From darges at hrz.uni-siegen.de  Tue Mar  8 15:35:59 2005
From: darges at hrz.uni-siegen.de (Markus Darges)
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 15:35:59 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] false link to archives on listinfo/listname
Message-ID: <422DB84F.4010207@hrz.uni-siegen.de>

I changed DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and DEFAULT_URL_HOST in mm_cfg.py. After 
that I used /bin/withlist -l -r fix_url listname -u newhostname to fix 
the links which works fine for the subscriber link on the 
listinfo/listname page but not for the link to the archives there. How 
can I fix it?
I use the rpm of mailman 2.1.5 on a fedora3 system.


From david at midrange.com  Tue Mar  8 16:27:22 2005
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 09:27:22 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-members allowed to post!
In-Reply-To: <PC17412005030414114003123598cbe0@Notebook>
References: <PC17412005030414114003123598cbe0@Notebook>
Message-ID: <422DC45A.2090602@midrange.com>

I did a bit more digging ... it seems that mail coming in from the GMane
system is not being parsed correctly by Mailman.

As a somewhat knee-jerk reaction, I turned on the moderation flag for
all subscribers to stop the unauthorized posting.

A few minutes ago I got a moderation notification that indicated that a
message was being posted from 'rpg400 at m.gmane.org'.

> As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the
> following mailing list posting:
>
>     List:    RPG400-L at midrange.com
>     From:    rpg400 at m.gmane.org
>     Subject: Re: Making Triggers Resilient
>     Reason:  Post to moderated list



The message, however, had not been submitted BY rpg400 at m.gmane.org, it
was submitted from a normal subscriber.

Here's the headers from the message (somewhat scrubbed to protect
privacy)...

> To: rpg400-l at midrange.com
> From: "Buck Calabro" <buck.calabro at xxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Making Triggers Resilient
> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 14:43:43 -0500
> Lines: 16
> Message-ID: <d054ob$ehk$1 at sea.gmane.org>
> X-Complaints-To: usenet at sea.gmane.org
> X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 209-23-60-152.tvc-ip.com
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4922.1500
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4925.2800
> Sender: news <news at sea.gmane.org>
> X-Gmane-MailScanner: Found to be clean
> X-Gmane-MailScanner: Found to be clean
> X-MailScanner-From: rpg400 at m.gmane.org
> X-MailScanner-To: rpg400-l at midrange.com


The only place that rpg400 at m.gmane.org shows up is in the
'X-MailScanner-From:' header.

It appears that Mailman is picking up the 'From:' information from the
wrong header.

Is this a problem with Gmane or Mailman?

david

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> David Gibbs wrote:
> 
>>I have a serious problem here that I can't seem to figure out.  I've 
>>been running Mailman for a very long time and have never seen this 
>>behavior before.
>>
>>A person is posting messages via GMane, but they are not subscribed to 
>>the list.  However, their messages are being allowed to post!
>>
>>I have my list configured with ...
>>
>>generic_nonmember_action = hold
>>accept_these_nonmembers = <empty>
>>default_member_moderation = yes
>>member_moderation_action = hold
>>
>>As you can see from this post log entry, the posting was accepted ...
>>
>>Mar 02 09:26:10 2005 (28195) post to rpg400-l from pearlsoft at xxxxxxxxx, 
>>size=2570, message-id=<d04kvp$kot$1 at sea.gmane.org>, success
>>
>>But 'pearlsoft at xxxxxxxxx' is not subscribed to any of my lists.
> 
> 
> The address in the post log entry (pearlsoft at xxxxxxxxx in this case) is
> not necessarily the address which was validated for the list. There
> are various possibilities, but for example, the address in the post
> log entry could be the From: header address while the address that was
> accepted as a member could be the envelope sender (or unixfrom)
> address.
> 
> You may be able to get the incoming envelope sender from your MTA logs.
> 
> Also, if the list password has been compromised, the post could have
> contained an Approved: header/line.
> 
> Both the original envelope sender and any Approved: header/line are
> gone from the post as received from the list making it difficult to
> diagnose this.
> 
> Still, looking at the post as received from the list might reveal a
> Sender: or Resent-From: or other header that might have a member's
> address.
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From ACrosman at afsc.org  Tue Mar  8 18:11:43 2005
From: ACrosman at afsc.org (Aaron Crosman)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 12:11:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spanish version option page
Message-ID: <B91F108ADD81414AB2C9CB7449D3CEC7A6C43A@DELTA.AFSC.local>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
> Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 1:49 PM
> To: Aaron Crosman; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Spanish version option page
> 
> Aaron Crosman wrote:
> 
> >I'm running Mailman 2.1.4 on SuSE 9.1, using the SuSE 
> package.  I have one user using the Spanish language version 
> of Mailman.  Almost everything is setup, however today we 
> noticed that the user options page of the Spanish language 
> version is not working properly at all (everything is fine if 
> you look at the English lists).
> >
> 
> The first thing to check is the Spanish language template for 
> the page.
> The base template is templates/es/options.html, but there 
> could also be a site edited template at 
> templates/site/es/options.html or a domain specific edited 
> template at templates/<host-name>/es/options.html or a list 
> specific edited template at lists/<list-name>/es/options.html.
> 
> Note that the base template should never be edited. Edited 
> templates should be in one or more of the other 3 places. See 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


While this was wonderfully helpful information for other projects that I'm working on, it didn't resolve the issue with the user options page for the Spanish version.  Yesterday I downloaded the options.html from the CVS tree and replaced the copy that was there, and restarted mailman, but that didn't help.  They are seeing a mix of Python/HTML code in the page.  Could there be something wrong in the data for the list that could cause this?  I ran check_perms and check_db and neither found anything.  Or is there some parsing code that applies only to non-English pages that might be corrupt? The following is an excerpt of the source code seen by the browser:

Est? suscrito a la lista con la direcci?n <em>{'WidgetArray': <class Mailman.htmlformat.WidgetArray at 0x405be5fc>, 'Errors': <module 'Mailman.Errors' from '/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Errors.pyc'>, 'PasswordBox': <class Mailman.htmlformat.PasswordBox at 0x405be44c>, 'DELIVERED_BY': 'mailman.jpg', 'DefinitionList': <class Mailman.htmlformat.DefinitionList at 0x405be6ec>, 'Strikeout': <class Mailman.htmlformat.Strikeout at 0x405be35c>, 'options_page': <function options_page at 0x405eba74>, 'message': '', 'Document': <class Mailman.htmlformat.Document at 0x405be11c>, 'QuotedContainer': <class Mailman.htmlformat.QuotedContainer at 0x405be1ac>, 'replacements': {'<mm-dont-ack-posts-button>': '<input type=radio name="ackposts" value="0" CHECKED>', '<mm-reminder>': '', '<mm-list-langs>': '\n<Select name="language">\n <option value="es" Selected> Espa\xf1ol (Espa\xf1a) </option>\n <option value="en"> Ingl\xe9s (EEUU) </option>\n</Select>', '<mm-list-description>': 'CFOmaquiladoras Lo nuevo', '<mm-results>': '<strong><font size="+1"></font></strong>', 

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Aaron


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar  8 18:31:11 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 09:31:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] false link to archives on listinfo/listname
In-Reply-To: <422DB84F.4010207@hrz.uni-siegen.de>
Message-ID: <PC174220050308093111068781888b3a@msapiro>

Markus Darges wrote:

>I changed DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and DEFAULT_URL_HOST in mm_cfg.py. After 
>that I used /bin/withlist -l -r fix_url listname -u newhostname to fix 
>the links which works fine for the subscriber link on the 
>listinfo/listname page but not for the link to the archives there. How 
>can I fix it?
>I use the rpm of mailman 2.1.5 on a fedora3 system.


I assume this is a public archive, since a private archive would not
depend on anything beyond what you've done.

Check to see if you've made any changes (in mm_cfg.py) to

PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'http://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'

The 'hostname' in this URL comes from looking up the list's host_name
attribute in an inverted VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary. The host_name
attribute should be correct after 'fix_url', but if your VIRTUAL_HOSTS
dictionary is messed up or has the same 'email host' value for
multiple 'url host' keys, this could be a problem.

Following your redefinition of DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and DEFAULT_URL_HOST
in mm_cfg.py, you should have

VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

followed by add_virtualhost() lines for other virtual hosts if any.

See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mcn4 at leicester.ac.uk  Tue Mar  8 18:55:00 2005
From: mcn4 at leicester.ac.uk (Matthew Newton)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 17:55:00 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Official" way of altering the available admin
	options
Message-ID: <20050308175500.GA28404@ultra.le.ac.uk>

Hi

[Mailman 2.1.5, Debian sarge, exim 4, Apache 2]

I'm developing a new Mailman service here, and want to be able to change
the available list of things that a mail owner/admin can change for
their list. Some things I can configure from mm_cfg.py, but not
everything.

For instance, I do not want the list owner to be changed: this request
has to come to the Computer Centre in other ways. There does not seem to
be a way of restricting this by default.

The only way I have currently found is to modify Mailman/Gui/General.py
and comment out the admin section of the list that is returned. This
does exactly what I want, but of course involves changing "program"
files rather than "config" files.

If there is no standard way of doing this, I will probably look at
writing a patch where there is a list, say mm_cfg.RESTRICT_CHANGES, that
contains all configuration sections that should not be shown.  Is this
a good idea?


I would also like to hook into the subscription code to, do at least two
things: automatically change all addresses with
s/@le\.ac\.uk$/@leicester.ac.uk/ and to block subscription requests that
match /@lists\.le(icester)?\.ac\.uk/ (I do not want to allow umbrella
lists). Is there a standard way, or hook into the code, for doing this
(on a site-wide basis, not per list)?

Thanks for any help you can give!

-- 
Matthew Newton <mcn4 at le.ac.uk>

UNIX and e-mail Systems Administrator, Network Support Section,
Computer Centre, University of Leicester,
Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom


From ACrosman at afsc.org  Tue Mar  8 20:02:09 2005
From: ACrosman at afsc.org (Aaron Crosman)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 14:02:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spanish version option page -- More information
Message-ID: <B91F108ADD81414AB2C9CB7449D3CEC7A6C4AA@DELTA.AFSC.local>

I setup a second list with Spanish as it's language option, and I tried
opening the users options page there.  That page is fine.  So this seems
to be an issue with the way that the particular list in question is
setup.

Does anyone have any suggestions about where in a list's configuration
damage might have been done that destroys the user options page?  Or
what to reset that might clear this up?  There are no list specific
templates, just a replacement welcome message.

Thanks
Aaron


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar  8 20:04:53 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 11:04:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spanish version option page
In-Reply-To: <B91F108ADD81414AB2C9CB7449D3CEC7A6C43A@DELTA.AFSC.local>
Message-ID: <PC17422005030811045304378e36e94a@msapiro>

Aaron Crosman wrote:

>> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
>> 
<snip>
>> 
>> The first thing to check is the Spanish language template for 
>> the page.
>> The base template is templates/es/options.html, but there 
>> could also be a site edited template at 
>> templates/site/es/options.html or a domain specific edited 
>> template at templates/<host-name>/es/options.html or a list 
>> specific edited template at lists/<list-name>/es/options.html.
>> 
<snip>
>
>
>While this was wonderfully helpful information for other projects that I'm working on, it didn't resolve the issue with the user options page for the Spanish version.  Yesterday I downloaded the options.html from the CVS tree and replaced the copy that was there, and restarted mailman, but that didn't help.  They are seeing a mix of Python/HTML code in the page.  Could there be something wrong in the data for the list that could cause this?  I ran check_perms and check_db and neither found anything.  Or is there some parsing code that applies only to non-English pages that might be corrupt? The following is an excerpt of the source code seen by the browser:
>
>Est? suscrito a la lista con la direcci?n <em>{'WidgetArray': <class Mailman.htmlformat.WidgetArray at 0x405be5fc>, 'Errors': <module 'Mailman.Errors' from '/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Errors.pyc'>, 'PasswordBox': <class Mailman.htmlformat.PasswordBox at 0x405be44c>, 'DELIVERED_BY': 'mailman.jpg', 'DefinitionList': <class Mailman.htmlformat.DefinitionList at 0x405be6ec>, 'Strikeout': <class Mailman.htmlformat.Strikeout at 0x405be35c>, 'options_page': <function options_page at 0x405eba74>, 'message': '', 'Document': <class Mailman.htmlformat.Document at 0x405be11c>, 'QuotedContainer': <class Mailman.htmlformat.QuotedContainer at 0x405be1ac>, 'replacements': {'<mm-dont-ack-posts-button>': '<input type=radio name="ackposts" value="0" CHECKED>', '<mm-reminder>': '', '<mm-list-langs>': '\n<Select name="language">\n <option value="es" Selected> Espa\xf1ol (Espa\xf1a) </option>\n <option value="en"> Ingl\xe9s (EEUU) </option>\n</Select>', '<mm-list-description>': 'CFOmaquiladoras Lo !
nuevo', '<mm-results>': '<strong><font size="+1"></font></strong>', 
>

I still think it's a template problem. When I search the templates
directory in either 2.1.4 or 2.1.5 for various fragments of the above
text, I get results similar to the following:

[msapiro at msapiro ...mailman-2.1.4/templates]$ grep -r scrito\ a\ la *
es/options.html:        est&aacute; subscrito a la lista de
distribuci&oacute;n,

es/userpass.txt:recuerde la clave con la que est? subscrito a la lista
de distri
buci?n
es/userpass.txt:La direcci?n con la que est? subscrito a la lista es:
[msapiro at msapiro ...mailman-2.1.4/templates]$

grep -r suscrito *

finds nothing in the templates/ directory for 2.1.4, 2.1.5 or 2.1.6b4.

In other words, I can't find anything that correlates with the text in
the above excerpt in any templates.

Are you certain that none of the files

lists/<list-name>/es/options.html or
templates/<host-name>/es/options.html or
templates/site/es/options.html

exists. If any one or more of these exists, it will take precedence (in
the above order) over the templates/es/options.html template.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar  8 20:14:21 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 11:14:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spanish version option page -- More information
In-Reply-To: <B91F108ADD81414AB2C9CB7449D3CEC7A6C4AA@DELTA.AFSC.local>
Message-ID: <PC17422005030811142105930b931086@msapiro>

Aaron Crosman wrote:

>I setup a second list with Spanish as it's language option, and I tried
>opening the users options page there.  That page is fine.  So this seems
>to be an issue with the way that the particular list in question is
>setup.
>
>Does anyone have any suggestions about where in a list's configuration
>damage might have been done that destroys the user options page?  Or
>what to reset that might clear this up?  There are no list specific
>templates, just a replacement welcome message.

Did you access the second list's options with exactly the same
'hostname' (as in http://hostname/...) as the first list? If not, it
still might be a host specific template.

If you're convinced it is not the template, then I don't know what it
might be as I said in my previous post, the fragments that you posted
(outside of what appears to be a dump of a Python dictionary) don't
correlate with any template.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ACrosman at afsc.org  Tue Mar  8 20:32:36 2005
From: ACrosman at afsc.org (Aaron Crosman)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 14:32:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spanish version option page -- More information
Message-ID: <B91F108ADD81414AB2C9CB7449D3CEC7A6C4CB@DELTA.AFSC.local>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 2:14 PM
> To: Aaron Crosman; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Spanish version option page -- 
> More information
> 
<snip>
> Did you access the second list's options with exactly the 
> same 'hostname' (as in http://hostname/...) as the first 
> list? If not, it still might be a host specific template.
> 
> If you're convinced it is not the template, then I don't know 
> what it might be as I said in my previous post, the fragments 
> that you posted (outside of what appears to be a dump of a 
> Python dictionary) don't correlate with any template.
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

I'm quite sure it's not a template.  I have checked, double check, and
now triple checked.  I'm really sure.  None of those other directories
exist except lists/<list name>/es/ and that just contains a
"subscriback.txt" for the replacement welcome message.

Could a corruption of the config.pck cause a problem like this?
Alternatively, is it possible that the template cache is being stored on
disk, and not properly getting flushed when mailman is restarted?

Finally are there suggestions on how to rebuild this list caring over
only the few configuration options I care about (subscriber settings
mostly).

Aaron


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar  8 21:06:11 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 12:06:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spanish version option page -- More information
In-Reply-To: <B91F108ADD81414AB2C9CB7449D3CEC7A6C4CB@DELTA.AFSC.local>
Message-ID: <PC1742200503081206110203aea25896@msapiro>

Aaron Crosman wrote:
>
>I'm quite sure it's not a template.  I have checked, double check, and
>now triple checked.  I'm really sure.  None of those other directories
>exist except lists/<list name>/es/ and that just contains a
>"subscriback.txt" for the replacement welcome message.

You are correct. I think I've discovered the problem.

The 2.1.4 version of messages/es/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po contains:

#: Mailman/Cgi/options.py:767
msgid ""
"\n"
"You are subscribed to this list with the case-preserved address\n"
"<em>%(cpuser)s</em>."
msgstr ""
"\n"
"Est? suscrito a la lista con la direcci?n <em>%s</em> respetando
may?sculas "
"y min?sculas."


This is wrong. It was fixed in 2.1.5. The last 2 lines should be

"Est? suscrito a la lista con la direcci?n <em>%(cpuser)s</em>
respetando "
"may?sculas y min?sculas."

The crucial difference is %(cpuser)s, not %s

After fixing the file, you need to update the .mo file with

bin/msgfmt.py messages/es/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po

BTW, I think you'll find that your test list has the same problem if
you visit the options page as a subscriber.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ACrosman at afsc.org  Tue Mar  8 21:24:02 2005
From: ACrosman at afsc.org (Aaron Crosman)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 15:24:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spanish version option page -- More information
	-- Solved
Message-ID: <B91F108ADD81414AB2C9CB7449D3CEC7A6C51A@DELTA.AFSC.local>

That was it!  Thanks for sticking with me.

Aaron

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 3:06 PM
> To: Aaron Crosman; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Spanish version option page -- 
> More information
> 
> Aaron Crosman wrote:
> >
> >I'm quite sure it's not a template.  I have checked, double 
> check, and 
> >now triple checked.  I'm really sure.  None of those other 
> directories 
> >exist except lists/<list name>/es/ and that just contains a 
> >"subscriback.txt" for the replacement welcome message.
> 
> You are correct. I think I've discovered the problem.
> 
> The 2.1.4 version of messages/es/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po contains:
> 
> #: Mailman/Cgi/options.py:767
> msgid ""
> "\n"
> "You are subscribed to this list with the case-preserved address\n"
> "<em>%(cpuser)s</em>."
> msgstr ""
> "\n"
> "Est? suscrito a la lista con la direcci?n <em>%s</em> 
> respetando may?sculas "
> "y min?sculas."
> 
> 
> This is wrong. It was fixed in 2.1.5. The last 2 lines should be
> 
> "Est? suscrito a la lista con la direcci?n 
> <em>%(cpuser)s</em> respetando "
> "may?sculas y min?sculas."
> 
> The crucial difference is %(cpuser)s, not %s
> 
> After fixing the file, you need to update the .mo file with
> 
> bin/msgfmt.py messages/es/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
> 
> BTW, I think you'll find that your test list has the same 
> problem if you visit the options page as a subscriber.
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 


From ler at lerctr.org  Tue Mar  8 21:30:33 2005
From: ler at lerctr.org (Larry Rosenman)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 14:30:33 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emergency Moderation: No notify to moderator?
Message-ID: <200503081430.33265.ler@lerctr.org>

I'm installing Mailman for a client, and they are testing it (this is a good 
thing), and they ask:

(8) Put list on emergency moderation and tried to post from subscribed address 
(do NOT get any notification to moderator that a message is pending.  Seems 
like that isn't right). 

Is this a bug or a feature?

LER

-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 214-351-4152                 E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
US Mail: 3535 Gaspar Drive, Dallas, TX 75220-3611


From ler at lerctr.org  Tue Mar  8 21:35:04 2005
From: ler at lerctr.org (Larry Rosenman)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 14:35:04 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emergency Moderation: No notify to moderator?
In-Reply-To: <200503081430.33265.ler@lerctr.org>
References: <200503081430.33265.ler@lerctr.org>
Message-ID: <200503081435.04334.ler@lerctr.org>

On Tuesday 08 March 2005 02:30 pm, Larry Rosenman wrote:
> I'm installing Mailman for a client, and they are testing it (this is a
> good thing), and they ask:
>
> (8) Put list on emergency moderation and tried to post from subscribed
> address (do NOT get any notification to moderator that a message is
> pending.  Seems like that isn't right).
>
> Is this a bug or a feature?
>
> LER
Oh, 2.1.5 from FreeBSD ports on FreeBSD5.3.

(not that it should matter :) ) 

LER

-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 214-351-4152                 E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
US Mail: 3535 Gaspar Drive, Dallas, TX 75220-3611


From chris.a.adams at state.or.us  Tue Mar  8 22:01:16 2005
From: chris.a.adams at state.or.us (Christopher Adams)
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 13:01:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Postfix queue (mailq) question
Message-ID: <422E129C.6030801@state.or.us>

This may be a question for the Postfix-Users list, but I know some of 
you are using Postfix as your MTA.

My questions is about some of the entries in the queue, when I run 
mailq. What is the part: 
libs-or-bounces+c620c0ce6987c4a2e5753ed1de6684d079cce346 at mailmanhost.com

Many of the bounces just list libs-or-bounces at mailmanhost.com



E57294E4EE    10440 Sat Mar  5 09:00:15 
libs-or-bounces+c620c0ce6987c4a2e5753ed1de6684d079cce346 at mailmanhost.com
                   (connect to nl.cc.org[199.101.15.45]: Connection refused)
                                          lsmith at nl.cc.org
-- 



Christopher Adams







From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar  8 22:08:59 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 13:08:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emergency Moderation: No notify to moderator?
In-Reply-To: <200503081430.33265.ler@lerctr.org>
Message-ID: <PC17422005030813085903436bdc4312@msapiro>

Larry Rosenman wrote:

>I'm installing Mailman for a client, and they are testing it (this is a good 
>thing), and they ask:
>
>(8) Put list on emergency moderation and tried to post from subscribed address 
>(do NOT get any notification to moderator that a message is pending.  Seems 
>like that isn't right). 
>
>Is this a bug or a feature?

It's a feature. The docstring from Emergency.py says

"""Put an emergency hold on all messages otherwise approved.

No notices are sent to either the sender or the list owner for emergency
holds.  I think they'd be too obnoxious.
"""

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar  8 22:27:01 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 13:27:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Postfix queue (mailq) question
In-Reply-To: <422E129C.6030801@state.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC1742200503081327010687b75e5a30@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:
>
>My questions is about some of the entries in the queue, when I run 
>mailq. What is the part: 
>libs-or-bounces+c620c0ce6987c4a2e5753ed1de6684d079cce346 at mailmanhost.com
>
>Many of the bounces just list libs-or-bounces at mailmanhost.com
>
>
>
>E57294E4EE    10440 Sat Mar  5 09:00:15 
>libs-or-bounces+c620c0ce6987c4a2e5753ed1de6684d079cce346 at mailmanhost.com
>                   (connect to nl.cc.org[199.101.15.45]: Connection refused)
>                                          lsmith at nl.cc.org

It is a probe message sent from bounce processing prior to disabling
the subscription. The c620c0ce6987c4a2e5753ed1de6684d079cce346 part is
a token used to uniquely identify the recipient in the event the probe
bounces.

The following is from the 2.1.5 NEWS file.

    - The bounce processor has been redesigned so that now when an
address's
      bounce score reaches the threshold, that address will be sent a
probe
      message.  Only if the probe bounces will the address be disabled.
 The
      score is reset to zero when the probe is sent.  Also, bounce
events are
      now kept in an event file instead of in memory.  This should help
      contain the bloat of the BounceRunner.

      New supporting variables in Defaults.py: VERP_PROBE_FORMAT,
      VERP_PROBE_REGEXP

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From forrie at forrie.com  Tue Mar  8 23:36:12 2005
From: forrie at forrie.com (Forrest Aldrich)
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 17:36:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman High Availability Configuration and
	Scalability
Message-ID: <422E28DC.8080001@forrie.com>

I'm doing some research on deploying Mailman in a high availability 
configuration, covering scalability configuration, hardware/software 
enhancement, etc.

Does Mailman provide an API that may enable hooks into/from other 
applications.

I did some cursory searching on the net and didn't really find any 
substantial information.

I'd like to get some ideas/feedback from those on this list that have 
deployed Mailman (current version assumed) and about your setup, 
experiences, suggestions, etc.


Thanks in advance.



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar  8 23:55:09 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 14:55:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman High Availability Configuration
	andScalability
In-Reply-To: <422E28DC.8080001@forrie.com>
Message-ID: <PC174220050308145509004631493737@msapiro>

Forrest Aldrich wrote:
>
>Does Mailman provide an API that may enable hooks into/from other 
>applications.

You might be interested in
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2005-January/017722.html

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jonathan at nacnud.com  Wed Mar  9 00:08:56 2005
From: jonathan at nacnud.com (Jonathan Duncan)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 16:08:56 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] All lists work except one
Message-ID: <20050308155852.W28582@hercules.jkdwebmagic.com>

I have a server with three mailing lists on it.  Two of them send messages 
just fine.  The two lists that send fine have less than ten users each.

The third list is the newest and it does not deliver any messages that are 
sent to it.  This list has 400+ users.  If I add or remove users from this 
list, I, as list admin, get informational messages about such actions. 
However, when I or the other moderator try sending messages to this list, 
they just disappear.  Meaning, they do not go into the moderated requests 
queue, they do not bounce back to the sender, they do not get sent to 
anyone, they are not stuck in the "qfiles" directory.  From what I have 
been able to find, they are silently sent to nowhere at all, aka 
/dev/null.

Umm.. help?  Following is some information about a message that I sent 
through the list.  This information is from two log files on the server as 
indicated.

(Yes, I looked in the FAQ and searched briefly in the archives for this 
list.)

-----------------------------
-----------------------------
/var/log/maillog
----------------

-Mar  8 15:21:12 mail sm-mta[68348]: j28MLBAH068348: 
from=<sender at domain.com>, size=2711, class=0, nrcpts=1, 
msgid=<20050308151539.W28582 at hostname.origination.com>, proto=ESMTP, 
daemon=MTA-v4, relay=hostname.origination.com [111.111.111.111]

-Mar  8 15:21:13 mail sm-mta[68377]: j28MLBAH068348: 
to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post listname", 
ctladdr=<listname at domain.com> (26/0), delay=00:00:02, xdelay=00:00:01, 
mailer=prog, pri=32982, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent

-Mar  8 15:21:21 mail sm-mta[68471]: j28MLLSb068471: 
from=<listname-bounces at mangosteenalliance.com>, size=4003, class=-60, 
nrcpts=1, msgid=<mailman.1.1110320476.82610.listname at domain.com>, 
proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]

-Mar  8 15:21:22 mail sm-mta[68473]: j28MLLSb068471: 
to=<sender at domain.com>, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=local, 
pri=142225, relay=local, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent

-----------------------------
-----------------------------
~mailman/logs/smtp
------------------

Mar 08 15:21:21 2005 (82619) 
<mailman.1.1110320476.82610.listname at domain.com> smtp for 1 recips, 
completed in 0.453 seconds
-----------------------------
-----------------------------


Thank you,
Jonathan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar  9 00:22:07 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 15:22:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-members allowed to post!
In-Reply-To: <422DC45A.2090602@midrange.com>
Message-ID: <PC1742200503081522070718352621d5@msapiro>

David Gibbs wrote:

>I did a bit more digging ... it seems that mail coming in from the GMane
>system is not being parsed correctly by Mailman.

Maybe, but maybe not.

>As a somewhat knee-jerk reaction, I turned on the moderation flag for
>all subscribers to stop the unauthorized posting.
>
>A few minutes ago I got a moderation notification that indicated that a
>message was being posted from 'rpg400 at m.gmane.org'.
>
>> As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the
>> following mailing list posting:
>>
>>     List:    RPG400-L at midrange.com
>>     From:    rpg400 at m.gmane.org
>>     Subject: Re: Making Triggers Resilient
>>     Reason:  Post to moderated list
>
>
>
>The message, however, had not been submitted BY rpg400 at m.gmane.org, it
>was submitted from a normal subscriber.
>
>Here's the headers from the message (somewhat scrubbed to protect
>privacy)...
>
>> To: rpg400-l at midrange.com
>> From: "Buck Calabro" <buck.calabro at xxxxxx>
>> Subject: Re: Making Triggers Resilient
>> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 14:43:43 -0500
>> Lines: 16
>> Message-ID: <d054ob$ehk$1 at sea.gmane.org>
>> X-Complaints-To: usenet at sea.gmane.org
>> X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 209-23-60-152.tvc-ip.com
>> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4922.1500
>> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4925.2800
>> Sender: news <news at sea.gmane.org>
>> X-Gmane-MailScanner: Found to be clean
>> X-Gmane-MailScanner: Found to be clean
>> X-MailScanner-From: rpg400 at m.gmane.org
>> X-MailScanner-To: rpg400-l at midrange.com
>
>
>The only place that rpg400 at m.gmane.org shows up is in the
>'X-MailScanner-From:' header.
>
>It appears that Mailman is picking up the 'From:' information from the
>wrong header.


How about the envelope sender? You can't tell from those headers what
that was, but I'm guessing that it too is rpg400 at m.gmane.org

>Is this a problem with Gmane or Mailman?

I'd say it's probably Gmane doing this. I guess the first question is
"is rpg400 at m.gmane.org a list member and if so, why?"

You might also check for USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER settings in mm_cfg.py. The
default in Defaults.py should be "USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = No". Also in
Defaults.py, you should have "SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', None,
'reply-to', 'sender')".

If you remove any "USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = Yes" from mm_cfg.py and put

SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', 'reply-to', 'sender')

into mm_cfg.py, then envelope sender won't be used at all. That might
help.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jonathan at nacnud.com  Wed Mar  9 00:27:43 2005
From: jonathan at nacnud.com (Jonathan Duncan)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 16:27:43 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] All lists work except one
In-Reply-To: <20050308155852.W28582@hercules.jkdwebmagic.com>
References: <20050308155852.W28582@hercules.jkdwebmagic.com>
Message-ID: <20050308162256.Q47571@hercules.jkdwebmagic.com>

I think I found the problem, or at least a solution, but it does not make 
sense that it would have been a problem.

I went into "Privacy options..." under "Sender filters" and added the 
e-mail address that I was sending from to the "List of non-member 
addresses whose postings should be automatically accepted." field.  I 
resent the message and this time it was delivered to the list.

The confusing part is, if not having that address in the Sender filters 
was the problem, why did not the message get bounced or moderated or 
something instead of just disappearing.  On that same page the "Action to 
take for postings from non-members for which no explicit action is 
defined." is set to "Reject".  Ah, but the "Should messages from 
non-members, which are automatically discarded, be forwarded to the list 
moderator?" is set to "No".  Although that should not make a difference, 
right?

Thanks,
Jonathan


On Tue, 8 Mar 2005, Jonathan Duncan wrote:

> I have a server with three mailing lists on it.  Two of them send messages 
> just fine.  The two lists that send fine have less than ten users each.
>
> The third list is the newest and it does not deliver any messages that are 
> sent to it.  This list has 400+ users.  If I add or remove users from this 
> list, I, as list admin, get informational messages about such actions. 
> However, when I or the other moderator try sending messages to this list, 
> they just disappear.  Meaning, they do not go into the moderated requests 
> queue, they do not bounce back to the sender, they do not get sent to anyone, 
> they are not stuck in the "qfiles" directory.  From what I have been able to 
> find, they are silently sent to nowhere at all, aka /dev/null.
>
> Umm.. help?  Following is some information about a message that I sent 
> through the list.  This information is from two log files on the server as 
> indicated.
>
> (Yes, I looked in the FAQ and searched briefly in the archives for this 
> list.)
>
> -----------------------------
> -----------------------------
> /var/log/maillog
> ----------------
>
> -Mar  8 15:21:12 mail sm-mta[68348]: j28MLBAH068348: 
> from=<sender at domain.com>, size=2711, class=0, nrcpts=1, 
> msgid=<20050308151539.W28582 at hostname.origination.com>, proto=ESMTP, 
> daemon=MTA-v4, relay=hostname.origination.com [111.111.111.111]
>
> -Mar  8 15:21:13 mail sm-mta[68377]: j28MLBAH068348: 
> to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post listname", 
> ctladdr=<listname at domain.com> (26/0), delay=00:00:02, xdelay=00:00:01, 
> mailer=prog, pri=32982, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
>
> -Mar  8 15:21:21 mail sm-mta[68471]: j28MLLSb068471: 
> from=<listname-bounces at mangosteenalliance.com>, size=4003, class=-60, 
> nrcpts=1, msgid=<mailman.1.1110320476.82610.listname at domain.com>, 
> proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
>
> -Mar  8 15:21:22 mail sm-mta[68473]: j28MLLSb068471: to=<sender at domain.com>, 
> delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=local, pri=142225, relay=local, 
> dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
>
> -----------------------------
> -----------------------------
> ~mailman/logs/smtp
> ------------------
>
> Mar 08 15:21:21 2005 (82619) <mailman.1.1110320476.82610.listname at domain.com> 
> smtp for 1 recips, completed in 0.453 seconds
> -----------------------------
> -----------------------------
>
>
> Thank you,
> Jonathan
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jonathan%40nacnud.com
>
> Security Policy: 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


From jonathan at nacnud.com  Wed Mar  9 00:41:43 2005
From: jonathan at nacnud.com (Jonathan Duncan)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 16:41:43 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] All lists work except one
In-Reply-To: <20050308162256.Q47571@hercules.jkdwebmagic.com>
References: <20050308155852.W28582@hercules.jkdwebmagic.com>
	<20050308162256.Q47571@hercules.jkdwebmagic.com>
Message-ID: <20050308163935.E47571@hercules.jkdwebmagic.com>

Ok, now I feel silly.  I found the mailbox that the bounce messages were 
going to.  They were being sent back to the mailbox whose address I had 
been using to send from.

Thank anyway.

Jonathan



On Tue, 8 Mar 2005, Jonathan Duncan wrote:

> I think I found the problem, or at least a solution, but it does not make 
> sense that it would have been a problem.
>
> I went into "Privacy options..." under "Sender filters" and added the e-mail 
> address that I was sending from to the "List of non-member addresses whose 
> postings should be automatically accepted." field.  I resent the message and 
> this time it was delivered to the list.
>
> The confusing part is, if not having that address in the Sender filters was 
> the problem, why did not the message get bounced or moderated or something 
> instead of just disappearing.  On that same page the "Action to take for 
> postings from non-members for which no explicit action is defined." is set to 
> "Reject".  Ah, but the "Should messages from non-members, which are 
> automatically discarded, be forwarded to the list moderator?" is set to "No". 
> Although that should not make a difference, right?
>
> Thanks,
> Jonathan
>
>
> On Tue, 8 Mar 2005, Jonathan Duncan wrote:
>
>> I have a server with three mailing lists on it.  Two of them send messages 
>> just fine.  The two lists that send fine have less than ten users each.
>> 
>> The third list is the newest and it does not deliver any messages that are 
>> sent to it.  This list has 400+ users.  If I add or remove users from this 
>> list, I, as list admin, get informational messages about such actions. 
>> However, when I or the other moderator try sending messages to this list, 
>> they just disappear.  Meaning, they do not go into the moderated requests 
>> queue, they do not bounce back to the sender, they do not get sent to 
>> anyone, they are not stuck in the "qfiles" directory.  From what I have 
>> been able to find, they are silently sent to nowhere at all, aka /dev/null.
>> 
>> Umm.. help?  Following is some information about a message that I sent 
>> through the list.  This information is from two log files on the server as 
>> indicated.
>> 
>> (Yes, I looked in the FAQ and searched briefly in the archives for this 
>> list.)
>> 
>> -----------------------------
>> -----------------------------
>> /var/log/maillog
>> ----------------
>> 
>> -Mar  8 15:21:12 mail sm-mta[68348]: j28MLBAH068348: 
>> from=<sender at domain.com>, size=2711, class=0, nrcpts=1, 
>> msgid=<20050308151539.W28582 at hostname.origination.com>, proto=ESMTP, 
>> daemon=MTA-v4, relay=hostname.origination.com [111.111.111.111]
>> 
>> -Mar  8 15:21:13 mail sm-mta[68377]: j28MLBAH068348: 
>> to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post listname", 
>> ctladdr=<listname at domain.com> (26/0), delay=00:00:02, xdelay=00:00:01, 
>> mailer=prog, pri=32982, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
>> 
>> -Mar  8 15:21:21 mail sm-mta[68471]: j28MLLSb068471: 
>> from=<listname-bounces at mangosteenalliance.com>, size=4003, class=-60, 
>> nrcpts=1, msgid=<mailman.1.1110320476.82610.listname at domain.com>, 
>> proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA-v4, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]
>> 
>> -Mar  8 15:21:22 mail sm-mta[68473]: j28MLLSb068471: 
>> to=<sender at domain.com>, delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=local, 
>> pri=142225, relay=local, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
>> 
>> -----------------------------
>> -----------------------------
>> ~mailman/logs/smtp
>> ------------------
>> 
>> Mar 08 15:21:21 2005 (82619) 
>> <mailman.1.1110320476.82610.listname at domain.com> smtp for 1 recips, 
>> completed in 0.453 seconds
>> -----------------------------
>> -----------------------------
>> 
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> Jonathan
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list
>> Mailman-Users at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>> Searchable Archives: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe: 
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jonathan%40nacnud.com
>> 
>> Security Policy: 
>> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jonathan%40nacnud.com
>
> Security Policy: 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


From jwblist at olympus.net  Wed Mar  9 00:48:32 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 15:48:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Emergency Moderation: No notify to moderator?
In-Reply-To: <PC17422005030813085903436bdc4312@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BE5379D0.2F9F%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 3/8/2005 13:08, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Larry Rosenman wrote:
> 
>> I'm installing Mailman for a client, and they are testing it (this is a good
>> thing), and they ask:
>> 
>> (8) Put list on emergency moderation and tried to post from subscribed
>> address 
>> (do NOT get any notification to moderator that a message is pending.  Seems
>> like that isn't right).
>> 
>> Is this a bug or a feature?
> 
> It's a feature. The docstring from Emergency.py says
> 
> """Put an emergency hold on all messages otherwise approved.
> 
> No notices are sent to either the sender or the list owner for emergency
> holds.  I think they'd be too obnoxious.
> """

It's intentional.  Whether it's a design error or a feature seems to be open
to debate.  At least, the feature triggers repeated questions here.

It might be fun to consider an algorithm for deciding whether or not to send
alerts to moderators something like
    if no messages are awaiting moderator action before this one is added,
Notify
   else if emergency moderation is in effect, don't notify
   else [I'm not sure whether notify or or don't notify is right here]

  --John



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar  9 01:26:36 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 16:26:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-members allowed to post!
In-Reply-To: <PC1742200503081522070718352621d5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC174220050308162636037517297a9b@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>I'd say it's probably Gmane doing this. I guess the first question is
>"is rpg400 at m.gmane.org a list member and if so, why?"

I just happened to notice a link to http://gmane.org/ in the headers of
another post and followed it.

It seems that one of Gmane's purposes is to allow non members to post
to lists via Gmane. Check it out.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Mar  9 01:21:27 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 01:21:27 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Use of 'mailman' site list
In-Reply-To: <20050308122009.GA34689@spinnaker.com>
References: <20050308122009.GA34689@spinnaker.com>
Message-ID: <p06200786be53f1e67a1c@[10.0.1.3]>

At 4:20 AM -0800 2005-03-08, Wayne Chapeskie wrote:

>  I have been converting some lists from majordomo to Mailman, and have
>  run into a bit of a question regarding the use of the "mailman" site
>  list.  Does anything ever send to this list, or is it expected that
>  any human will ever send to this list?

	See 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.025.htp> 
and 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.057.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Mar  9 01:29:39 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 01:29:39 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Postfix queue (mailq)
 question
In-Reply-To: <422E129C.6030801@state.or.us>
References: <422E129C.6030801@state.or.us>
Message-ID: <p06200788be53f3b1e5de@[10.0.1.3]>

At 1:01 PM -0800 2005-03-08, Christopher Adams wrote:

>  My questions is about some of the entries in the queue, when I run mailq.
>  What is the part:
>  libs-or-bounces+c620c0ce6987c4a2e5753ed1de6684d079cce346 at mailmanhost.com

	That is a VERPed envelope sender address.

	See 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.002.htp> 
and 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.012.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Mar  9 01:27:26 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 01:27:26 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Official" way of altering the
	available admin 	options
In-Reply-To: <20050308175500.GA28404@ultra.le.ac.uk>
References: <20050308175500.GA28404@ultra.le.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <p06200787be53f2baabc7@[10.0.1.3]>

At 5:55 PM +0000 2005-03-08, Matthew Newton wrote:

>  If there is no standard way of doing this, I will probably look at
>  writing a patch where there is a list, say mm_cfg.RESTRICT_CHANGES, that
>  contains all configuration sections that should not be shown.  Is this
>  a good idea?

	That sounds like a reasonable solution.

>  I would also like to hook into the subscription code to, do at least two
>  things: automatically change all addresses with
>  s/@le\.ac\.uk$/@leicester.ac.uk/ and to block subscription requests that
>  match /@lists\.le(icester)?\.ac\.uk/ (I do not want to allow umbrella
>  lists). Is there a standard way, or hook into the code, for doing this
>  (on a site-wide basis, not per list)?

	I'm not aware of a standard way to do this sort of stuff.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From david at midrange.com  Wed Mar  9 03:45:46 2005
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 20:45:46 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-members allowed to post!
In-Reply-To: <PC1742200503081522070718352621d5@msapiro>
References: <PC1742200503081522070718352621d5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <422E635A.6060207@midrange.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>The only place that rpg400 at m.gmane.org shows up is in the
>>'X-MailScanner-From:' header.
>>It appears that Mailman is picking up the 'From:' information from the
>>wrong header.
> How about the envelope sender? You can't tell from those headers what
> that was, but I'm guessing that it too is rpg400 at m.gmane.org

Sorry if this is a dumb question ... but what header indicates the 
"envelope sender"?

As far as I could tell from the headers I saw, the *ONLY* place that 
rpg400 at m.gmane.org showed up was in the X-MailScanner-From header.

> I'd say it's probably Gmane doing this. I guess the first question is
> "is rpg400 at m.gmane.org a list member and if so, why?"

Yes, rpg400 at m.gmane.org is a list member ... because that's how gmane 
receives list messages to process them into it's news server.

> You might also check for USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER settings in mm_cfg.py. The
> default in Defaults.py should be "USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = No". Also in
> Defaults.py, you should have "SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', None,
> 'reply-to', 'sender')".

I actually changed that in my mm_cfg.py file after this problem started 
in hopes that it would help.  The original value was No, I changed it to 
Yes.

Now the messages are held because 'news at sea.gmane.org' is not a member 
of the list.

david


From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Wed Mar  9 05:27:19 2005
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 22:27:19 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-members allowed to post!
In-Reply-To: <422E635A.6060207@midrange.com>
Message-ID: <BE53D747.8619%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 3/8/05 8:45 PM, David Gibbs at david at midrange.com wrote:

> Sorry if this is a dumb question ... but what header indicates the
> "envelope sender"?

None. The "envelope sender" is the return address (MAIL FROM: command) in
the dialogue between the upstream mail server and your mail server. Then,
think of your mail server as being a very efficient clerk. It receives the
mail, opens the envelope, puts what's in the envelope in your inbox, and
throws away the envelope. Unfortunately by doing so, the envelope is no
longer available to see. Just as the From: header in a message can be easily
forged, so can the Envelope Sender.

Some (but not all) mail servers will added a pseudo-header before the real
header that shows the envelope sender or an additional header with it. I run
Postfix and I see it adds both the pseudo-header first (a From line with no
colon after From) plus a Return-Path: header which also has the envelope
sender in it. Looking at my mailman archives, the pseudo-From is there but
not the Return-Path: header.

-- Larry Stone
   larry at stonejongleux.com
   http://www.stonejongleux.com/
   




From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar  9 07:32:49 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 22:32:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-members allowed to post!
In-Reply-To: <422E635A.6060207@midrange.com>
Message-ID: <PC1742200503082232490953e810bfea@msapiro>

David Gibbs wrote:
>
>Yes, rpg400 at m.gmane.org is a list member ... because that's how gmane 
>receives list messages to process them into it's news server.

And as I gather from their web site, it's also how Gmane allows non
list member Gmane users to post back to the list through Gmane. Posts
that come through Gmane to your list apparently are sent from Gmane
with the SMTP command "MAIL FROM rpg400 at m.gmane.org" which makes that
address the envelope sender and therefore, allows anyone to post to
your list via Gmane according to their rules, not yours. This appears
to be the price you pay for "archiving" your list with Gmane.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From darges at hrz.uni-siegen.de  Wed Mar  9 10:13:43 2005
From: darges at hrz.uni-siegen.de (Markus Darges)
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 10:13:43 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] false link to archives on listinfo/listname
In-Reply-To: <PC174220050308093111068781888b3a@msapiro>
References: <PC174220050308093111068781888b3a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <422EBE47.1090401@hrz.uni-siegen.de>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Markus Darges wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I changed DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and DEFAULT_URL_HOST in mm_cfg.py. After 
>>that I used /bin/withlist -l -r fix_url listname -u newhostname to fix 
>>the links which works fine for the subscriber link on the 
>>listinfo/listname page but not for the link to the archives there. How 
>>can I fix it?
>>I use the rpm of mailman 2.1.5 on a fedora3 system.
>>    
>>
>
>
>I assume this is a public archive, since a private archive would not
>depend on anything beyond what you've done.
>
>Check to see if you've made any changes (in mm_cfg.py) to
>
>PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'http://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'
>
>The 'hostname' in this URL comes from looking up the list's host_name
>attribute in an inverted VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary. The host_name
>attribute should be correct after 'fix_url', but if your VIRTUAL_HOSTS
>dictionary is messed up or has the same 'email host' value for
>multiple 'url host' keys, this could be a problem.
>
>Following your redefinition of DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and DEFAULT_URL_HOST
>in mm_cfg.py, you should have
>
>VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>
>followed by add_virtualhost() lines for other virtual hosts if any.
>
>See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
>  
>
Thanks that works and yes its a public list. But the link/ more 
information about this list /(on 
'http://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s') still points on the old 
servers name. Any idea?


From information.service at stpauls.it  Mon Mar  7 21:55:57 2005
From: information.service at stpauls.it (Information Service)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 21:55:57 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] trying mailing for the first time
Message-ID: <007001c52358$127ad060$398c10ac@InformazioneSSP>

I am a new admin user of mailin and all the mails on my list 10 are keyed in by me.  I want to just test if it works.  I did all the settings and sent a message but it did not work.  What settings do I need to do just to send a simple email to the lists?  

Please help as I am getting desperate.
Thank you.

Norman
information.service at stpauls.it

From agerson at mac.com  Tue Mar  8 04:17:57 2005
From: agerson at mac.com (Adam)
Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 22:17:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Searchable
Message-ID: <7af451c853cbf35a1db3119f6ffbfeab@mac.com>

Is there any way to make a mailman list archive keyword searchable 
across all dates?

Adam



From henri.brouchoud at cirad.fr  Tue Mar  8 16:47:26 2005
From: henri.brouchoud at cirad.fr (Henri Brouchoud)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 19:47:26 +0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Misinterpretation of Re : prefix
Message-ID: <001f01c523f6$20abbca0$4b7133c1@brouchoud9915>

Hi, 

I have installed mailman 2.1.6b4 and have a problem with email
subscription. After sending a subscribe request to mylist-request, I try
to send the confirm email just by replying to the confirmation notice.
As mentionned in the email additionnal "Re: " prefix should be accepted.


Except for Outlook which set this subject prefix to "Re : " (note that
in this case the prefix contains two tokens). Outlook express and
Netscape put the rigt prefix "Re: ". After some tests, it seems that any
one-token prefix is accepted ("XXXXX" for instance). 
And this is my problem. I would like to modify the code to accept at
least both patterns ("Re : " and "Re: "), but I don't know where the
decoding of the subject is done. I guess it is a regexp ? 

As the suscribers of my list are attended to be very non software people
at all, I want absolutely to facilitate the subscription process and
that it works with any well known email software very easily. 

Could someone help me to fix that problem ? 

Thanks in advance 

Henri 




From jocke at nomell.se  Tue Mar  8 18:32:24 2005
From: jocke at nomell.se (Joakim Nomell)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 18:32:24 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator flag on a specific user
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503081830480.10905@jajja.nomell.se>

Hi. I set the moderation flag on one of my users. The other users on the 
list are not moderated. But when the moderated user tries to send an email 
to the list, he gets the error message "Your message was rejected". No 
approval request is sent to the listowners/moderators. What's wrong?

-- 
___________________________________________________________________
Joakim Nomell     Phn: +46 70 771 31 00      MSN : joakim at nomell.nu
Unix engineer     Fax: +46 70 711 31 00      Web : http://nomell.se
-------------------------------------------------------------------

* When seeking love gives nothing, have found love gives all *


From toby at enhanced-designs.com  Tue Mar  8 19:41:27 2005
From: toby at enhanced-designs.com (Tobias C. Brown)
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 13:41:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customizing archive
Message-ID: <422DAB87.32237.AA0CA7@localhost>

Hi, 

Is it possible to cusomize the Mailman archive html?

Thanks,
Tobias Brown.


From reptileman at surgenetirc.org  Wed Mar  9 01:49:37 2005
From: reptileman at surgenetirc.org (Daniel Gutierrez)
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 18:49:37 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Localhost Issue
Message-ID: <001301c52441$df2c3e20$41920b43@kixsandrept>

Is my mailing list supposed to have the address mailman-owner at localhost? Please let me know. My Web Site provider couldn't seem to help me, I wasn't very pleased with that.

Daniel


From kyle at engsoc.carleton.ca  Wed Mar  9 10:03:06 2005
From: kyle at engsoc.carleton.ca (Kyle McMartin)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 04:03:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weird Issues using Mailman
Message-ID: <20050309090306.GI15184@roadwarrior.mcmartin.ca>

Hi all,

I'm administrating a few lists with large numbers of subscribers (>700),
and for some reason, have been seeing weird behaviour from mailman.

We're using Debian testing, Mailman 2.1.5, and Postfix 2.1.5.

When attempting to send a message to one of these lists, I get crap
in the smtp-failure logs:

Mar 09 03:48:22 2005 (32326) delivery to <xxx>@engsoc.org failed with code -1: Server not connected

The message seems to get through to about 20 of the recipients, before
it barfs like this.

Searching around for this message, I found the suggestion of using 
MTA='Postfix' and explicitly setting the mail server address in 
/etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py. Unfortunately, this does not seem to help and
the messages persist.

I've tried explicitly setting SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION on a hunch
but unfortunately that did not help either. :(

This is getting to be exceedingly irritating, so any help you can 
give is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
	Kyle M.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Mar  9 11:28:09 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 11:28:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] trying mailing for the first time
In-Reply-To: <007001c52358$127ad060$398c10ac@InformazioneSSP>
References: <007001c52358$127ad060$398c10ac@InformazioneSSP>
Message-ID: <p06200790be547feec431@[10.0.1.3]>

At 9:55 PM +0100 2005-03-07, Information Service wrote:

>  I am a new admin user of mailin and all the mails on my list 10 are
>  keyed in by me.  I want to just test if it works.  I did all the
>  settings and sent a message but it did not work.  What settings do
>  I need to do just to send a simple email to the lists?

	Unfortunately, you haven't given us any useful information here. 
You haven't told us what kind of error messages you're seeing, you 
haven't shown us the relevant log entries, etc....

	See 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.022.htp> 
and 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.023.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From petite.abeille at gmail.com  Wed Mar  9 11:29:24 2005
From: petite.abeille at gmail.com (PA)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 11:29:24 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Searchable
In-Reply-To: <7af451c853cbf35a1db3119f6ffbfeab@mac.com>
References: <7af451c853cbf35a1db3119f6ffbfeab@mac.com>
Message-ID: <f319e89221779c04a6145dfced9b024a@gmail.com>


On Mar 08, 2005, at 04:17, Adam wrote:

> Is there any way to make a mailman list archive keyword searchable 
> across all dates?

<shamelessplug>

As far as search goes, perhaps you might be interested by ZO?:

http://zoe.nu/

"Googling Your Email"
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2002/10/07/udell.html

Mandatory screenshots:

http://zoe.nu/itstories/story.php?data=stories&num=23&sec=2

</shamelessplug>

Cheers

--
PA, Onnay Equitursay
http://alt.textdrive.com/



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Mar  9 11:30:11 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 11:30:11 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Searchable
In-Reply-To: <7af451c853cbf35a1db3119f6ffbfeab@mac.com>
References: <7af451c853cbf35a1db3119f6ffbfeab@mac.com>
Message-ID: <p06200791be548099ec56@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:17 PM -0500 2005-03-07, Adam wrote:

>  Is there any way to make a mailman list archive keyword searchable
>  across all dates?

	Go to the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> and search for 
"searchable".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Mar  9 11:38:00 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 11:38:00 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Localhost Issue
In-Reply-To: <001301c52441$df2c3e20$41920b43@kixsandrept>
References: <001301c52441$df2c3e20$41920b43@kixsandrept>
Message-ID: <p06200793be5482304b94@[10.0.1.3]>

At 6:49 PM -0600 2005-03-08, Daniel Gutierrez wrote:

>  Is my mailing list supposed to have the address mailman-owner at localhost?

	Yes.  See 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.025.htp> 
and 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.057.htp>

>  Please let me know. My Web Site provider couldn't seem to help me, I
>  wasn't very pleased with that.

	Any time you have questions regarding the services they provide, 
you should always talk to your provider as the first step.  However, 
if you want to consider switching providers, see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.017.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Mar  9 11:33:09 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 11:33:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator flag on a specific user
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503081830480.10905@jajja.nomell.se>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503081830480.10905@jajja.nomell.se>
Message-ID: <p06200792be5480cdf889@[10.0.1.3]>

At 6:32 PM +0100 2005-03-08, Joakim Nomell wrote:

>  Hi. I set the moderation flag on one of my users. The other users on
>  the list are not moderated. But when the moderated user tries to send
>  an email to the list, he gets the error message "Your message was
>  rejected". No approval request is sent to the listowners/moderators.
>  What's wrong?

	It sounds to me like you've configured the list to reject 
postings from users who are designated as "moderated".


	In the web administration interface for your list, go to "Privacy 
options...", then "Sender filters".  Look at the second item on the 
list, which has the description "Action to take when a moderated 
member posts to the  list. (Details for member_moderation_action)".

	I'd be willing to bet that you've set the list to "Reject" 
instead of "Hold".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From dontodd at columbus.rr.com  Wed Mar  9 15:03:00 2005
From: dontodd at columbus.rr.com (Todd Slater)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 09:03:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customizing archive
In-Reply-To: <422DAB87.32237.AA0CA7@localhost>
References: <422DAB87.32237.AA0CA7@localhost>
Message-ID: <20050309140300.GA24072@localhost.columbus.rr.com>

On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 01:41:27PM -0500, Tobias C. Brown wrote:
> Hi, 
> 
> Is it possible to cusomize the Mailman archive html?

Yes. The question comes up frequently and the answers can be found by
searching the archives or checking out the FAQ.

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

Todd


From dave at boost-consulting.com  Wed Mar  9 15:16:55 2005
From: dave at boost-consulting.com (David Abrahams)
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 09:16:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Inconsistent post approval options
References: <PC174120050304081736043752bb14d9@msapiro>
	<PC174120050304083614053121176141@msapiro>
	<ur7iqrgz6.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <uu0nkewfc.fsf@boost-consulting.com>

David Abrahams <dave at boost-consulting.com> writes:

> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> writes:
>
>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>>
>>>However, both list membership and moderation are handled in the
>>>Moderate handler which normally comes before Hold in the pipeline, so
>>>presumably, the poster of this message is a list member and is not
>>>moderated if this list uses the default pipline.
>>
>> Except, as Brad correctly notes, this post looks like it came from a
>> non-member because the "Add to filters" and Ban options are shown as
>> opposed to the notation that the poster is a list member. Maybe the
>> list does use a non-default pipeline 
>
> I seriously doubt that.  DongInn, you didn't do anything funky with
> the Mailman filter pipeline, did you?

He has confirmed that it's the standard pipeline.

>> or maybe I'm missing something in the sequence of how these are
>> handled.
>
> I think we still have a mystery here, then.

Ditto.

-- 
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com



From jeremi at mividdesigns.com  Wed Mar  9 16:05:49 2005
From: jeremi at mividdesigns.com (Jeremi Bergman)
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 10:05:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderate Posts are not listed
In-Reply-To: <4222282B.7010500@mividdesigns.com>
References: <PC17412005022708445404535b23a3fb@msapiro>
	<4222282B.7010500@mividdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <422F10CD.9000302@mividdesigns.com>

OK, this didn't work.  I tried replacing the the request.pck with one 
that didn't have any mod requests.
I verified the requests are actually coming from the right server.

Any other thoughts?  Thanks!

Jeremi Bergman wrote:

> Thanks.
>
> I replaced it with another lists that was blank.  We'll see how that 
> works.
>
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Jeremi Bergman wrote:
>>
>>  
>>
>>> Every day I get an email that states I need to moderate two posts:
>>>
>>> Pending posts:
>>> From: identdep_op42 at wellsfargo.com on Sun Oct 17 13:02:17 2004
>>> Subject: Wells Fargo billing department: important information [Sun, 
>>> 17 Oct 2004 12:56:23 -0700]
>>> Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list
>>>
>>> From: identdep_op42 at wellsfargo.com on Sun Oct 17 14:38:49 2004
>>> Subject: Wells Fargo billing department: important information [Sun, 
>>> 17 Oct 2004 12:56:23 -0700]
>>> Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only list
>>>
>>> But when I view the Admin Requests, I dont see these two.
>>>
>>> Any thoughts?
>>>   
>>
>>
>> Assuming that requests are otherwise working, my guess is the
>> lists/<listname>/request.pck file is somehow corrupted. You could try
>> looking at it with bin/dumpdb. If there appear to be no requests you
>> want to keep such as pending subscriptions, you could just replace it
>> with an "empty" one from another list.
>>
>> You could also try posting a message that you know will be held, say
>> one with implicit destination if you hold those, and see if the hold
>> process works normally for that one, and if maybe it "straightens out"
>> the problem.
>>
>> -- 
>> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>>
>>  
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jeremi%40mividdesigns.com 
>
>
> Security Policy: 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp




From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar  9 16:29:18 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 07:29:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] false link to archives on listinfo/listname
In-Reply-To: <422EBE47.1090401@hrz.uni-siegen.de>
Message-ID: <PC1742200503090729180531d1048ec5@msapiro>

Markus Darges wrote:

>Thanks that works and yes its a public list. But the link/ more 
>information about this list /(on 
>'http://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s') still points on the old 
>servers name. Any idea?


This link is built into the archive when it is created. Newly created
monthly index pages will have the correct link. You have to rebuild
the archive (see bin/arch --help) to fix the existing pages (or edit
them manually).

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar  9 16:33:07 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 07:33:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customizing archive
In-Reply-To: <422DAB87.32237.AA0CA7@localhost>
Message-ID: <PC1742200503090733070250d1048da1@msapiro>

Tobias C. Brown wrote:
>
>Is it possible to cusomize the Mailman archive html?

See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp
and the various ar*.html templates.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jwblist at olympus.net  Wed Mar  9 17:04:10 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 08:04:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-members allowed to post!
In-Reply-To: <BE53D747.8619%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <BE545E7A.2FE1%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 3/8/2005 20:27, "Larry Stone" <lstone19 at stonejongleux.com> wrote:

> On 3/8/05 8:45 PM, David Gibbs at david at midrange.com wrote:
> 
>> Sorry if this is a dumb question ... but what header indicates the
>> "envelope sender"?
> 
> None. The "envelope sender" is the return address (MAIL FROM: command) in
> the dialogue between the upstream mail server and your mail server. Then,
> think of your mail server as being a very efficient clerk. It receives the
> mail, opens the envelope, puts what's in the envelope in your inbox, and
> throws away the envelope. Unfortunately by doing so, the envelope is no
> longer available to see. Just as the From: header in a message can be easily
> forged, so can the Envelope Sender.
> 
> Some (but not all) mail servers will added a pseudo-header before the real
> header that shows the envelope sender or an additional header with it. I run
> Postfix and I see it adds both the pseudo-header first (a From line with no
> colon after From) plus a Return-Path: header which also has the envelope
> sender in it. Looking at my mailman archives, the pseudo-From is there but
> not the Return-Path: header.

The "pseudo-From" is part of the mbox file format in which the raw messages
are accumulated for the archive.  The blank line in front of one of them
plus the From (no colon) line itself mark the start of a new message (so
does beginning of file being a From (no colon) line).  [That mechanism is
rather fragile...and is the reason you sometimes see message lines start
with ">From" rather than "From" in your mail stream...some overly protective
programs don't like any "F" at the start of a line.]

Whether the MTA adds a Return-Path: (or other) header is configurable in
most MTAs...I don't know how to set up Postfix to add it to messages sent to
the Mailman input CGI.

One could configure most MTAs to reject mail from Gmane addressed to the
list posting addresses (I also don't know how to do that with Postfix).
That might violate one's agreement with Gmane (I've never seen the
agreement).

  --John (who doesn't manage any Postfix servers, only Exim)



From etaylor at amnh.org  Wed Mar  9 17:13:36 2005
From: etaylor at amnh.org (Ezra Taylor)
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 11:13:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman complaining about script	permissions
	after  running normally for a period...
In-Reply-To: <p0620074abe4e232402a1@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <422842A5.3090002@stthomaschurch.org.uk>
	<p0620074abe4e232402a1@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <422F20B0.3050108@amnh.org>

Something is changing the ownership of your files.  The previous 
responder is right,  a cron or logrotate is doing this.

Ezra

Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 11:12 AM +0000 2005-03-04, it support wrote:
>
>>  I've tracked down the problem to the ownership of the files are 
>> changing.
>>  No longer are they being owned by mailman, but by root. I can fix the
>>  problem by resetting the ownership of the files to mailman and
>>  re-running check_perms -f to fix any stray permissions, but its
>>  frustrating for the list users who have to wait for this to be done.
>
>
>     There's nothing within Mailman that would cause this kind of 
> behaviour.
>
>>  I've checked the cron scripts on the machine and can't see anything 
>> that
>>  would affect the files in that part of the file system.
>
>
>     I don't know anything about your OS.  I'd recommend you use the 
> mailing lists, newsgroups, FAQs, etc... that are appropriate to what 
> you're running.
>
>     I can tell you that the problem may be a logfile rotation script, 
> or some other sort of cron job, or maybe it's being run indirectly -- 
> some other cron job runs some other command which results in the kind 
> of behaviour you're seeing.
>
>>  Has anyone else seen this problem and do they know the cause of it?
>
>
>     You could search the archives of the mailman-users mailing list, 
> such as described at 
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.018.htp>. 
> I've heard of these kinds of problems before, but I don't know if they 
> occurred on the same platform that you're running.
>


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar  9 17:29:14 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 08:29:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-members allowed to post!
In-Reply-To: <BE545E7A.2FE1%jwblist@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <PC174220050309082914057821709ed0@msapiro>

John W. Baxter wrote:
>
>Whether the MTA adds a Return-Path: (or other) header is configurable in
>most MTAs...I don't know how to set up Postfix to add it to messages sent to
>the Mailman input CGI.

It doesn't seem that it should be "configurable". Quoting from RFC
2821, sec 4.4

 When the delivery SMTP server makes the "final delivery" of a message,
 it inserts a return-path line at the beginning of the mail data. This
 use of return-path is required; mail systems MUST support it. The
 return-path line preserves the information in the <reverse- path> from
 the MAIL command. Here, final delivery means the message has left the
 SMTP environment. Normally, this would mean it had been delivered to
 the destination user or an associated mail drop, but in some cases it
 may be further processed and transmitted by another mail system.


--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From david at midrange.com  Wed Mar  9 19:06:47 2005
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 12:06:47 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Non-members allowed to post!
In-Reply-To: <BE53D747.8619%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
References: <422E635A.6060207@midrange.com>
	<BE53D747.8619%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <d0ndv7$ul$1@sea.gmane.org>

Larry Stone wrote:
>>Sorry if this is a dumb question ... but what header indicates the
>>"envelope sender"?
> None. The "envelope sender" is the return address (MAIL FROM: command) in
> the dialogue between the upstream mail server and your mail server. 

Ok, so then there is no way for Mailman to know the envelope sender,
right?  Mailman can only look at the mail that is piped into it from the
MTA (sendmail in my case), so if the information isn't available on the
headers, Mailman can't be aware of it.

Are we really talking about the 'sender' mail header?

david

-- 
David Gibbs
david at midrange.com

Receipt of this message does not grant you permission to send me
Unsolicited Commercial Email



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Mar  9 19:27:45 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 19:27:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-members allowed to post!
In-Reply-To: <BE545E7A.2FE1%jwblist@olympus.net>
References: <BE545E7A.2FE1%jwblist@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <p06200795be54f06820f2@[10.0.1.3]>

At 8:04 AM -0800 2005-03-09, John W. Baxter wrote:

>  One could configure most MTAs to reject mail from Gmane addressed to the
>  list posting addresses (I also don't know how to do that with Postfix).

	That's easy.  See <http://www.postfix.org/SMTPD_ACCESS_README.html#global>.

>  That might violate one's agreement with Gmane (I've never seen the
>  agreement).

	Does any Mailman administrator have any agreement with Gmane, or 
is it just the users.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Mar  9 19:33:55 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 19:33:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Non-members allowed to post!
In-Reply-To: <d0ndv7$ul$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <422E635A.6060207@midrange.com>
	<BE53D747.8619%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
	<d0ndv7$ul$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <p06200797be54f1bd70ff@[10.0.1.3]>

At 12:06 PM -0600 2005-03-09, David Gibbs wrote:

>  Ok, so then there is no way for Mailman to know the envelope sender,
>  right?  Mailman can only look at the mail that is piped into it from the
>  MTA (sendmail in my case), so if the information isn't available on the
>  headers, Mailman can't be aware of it.

	It depends on how your MTA provides that information to the Local 
Delivery Agent.  That information may or may not be made available in 
a header that is created by the local MTA, in which case Mailman 
could look at that.  But without support from your local MTA, there 
is no other way that Mailman could know that information.

>  Are we really talking about the 'sender' mail header?

	Some MTAs may encode that information in the "Sender:" header, yes.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From jwblist at olympus.net  Wed Mar  9 19:57:30 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 10:57:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-members allowed to post!
In-Reply-To: <PC174220050309082914057821709ed0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BE54871A.306B%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 3/9/2005 8:29, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> John W. Baxter wrote:
>> 
>> Whether the MTA adds a Return-Path: (or other) header is configurable in
>> most MTAs...I don't know how to set up Postfix to add it to messages sent to
>> the Mailman input CGI.
> 
> It doesn't seem that it should be "configurable". Quoting from RFC
> 2821, sec 4.4

My error...my mind slipped over to another header.  Thank you for the
correction.

  --John



From jwblist at olympus.net  Wed Mar  9 20:01:44 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 11:01:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-members allowed to post!
In-Reply-To: <p06200795be54f06820f2@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <BE548818.306D%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 3/9/2005 10:27, "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote:

>>  That might violate one's agreement with Gmane (I've never seen the
>>  agreement).
> 
> Does any Mailman administrator have any agreement with Gmane, or
> is it just the users.

If one has to take action to get a list into Gmane, then that individual
presumably is agreeing to something.  If the administrator running the MTA
then frustrates that agreement, I wonder what the outcome is.

  --John



From david at midrange.com  Wed Mar  9 20:03:10 2005
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 13:03:10 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Non-members allowed to post!
In-Reply-To: <p06200797be54f1bd70ff@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <422E635A.6060207@midrange.com>
	<BE53D747.8619%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
	<d0ndv7$ul$1@sea.gmane.org> <p06200797be54f1bd70ff@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <422F486E.30801@midrange.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>>  Are we really talking about the 'sender' mail header?
>     Some MTAs may encode that information in the "Sender:" header, yes.

At this point I'm 99% sure that Mailman is misinterpreting the
'X-MailScanner-From' header, because that's the only place that the
'rpg400 at m.gmane.org' address is showing up.

Here's a copy of the full headers (personal email address obfuscated)
for a message that came from gmane.  "buck.calabro at dom.ain" is indeed a
subscriber to the list in question.

----------

Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2])
	by mail.midrange.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j29H988r031251
	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
	for <rpg400-l at midrange.com>; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 11:09:15 -0600
Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43)
	id 1D94du-0006l2-Pj
	for rpg400-l at midrange.com; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 18:06:42 +0100
Received: from 209-23-60-152.tvc-ip.com ([209.23.60.152])
	by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian))
	id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00
	for <rpg400-l at midrange.com>; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 18:06:42 +0100
Received: from buck.calabro by 209-23-60-152.tvc-ip.com with local
(Gmexim 0.1
	(Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00
	for <rpg400-l at midrange.com>; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 18:06:42 +0100
X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/
To: rpg400-l at midrange.com
From: "Buck Calabro" <buck.calabro at dom.ain>
Subject: Re: Making sense of 4-byte binary fields
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 12:04:06 -0500
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <d0na9m$m7s$1 at sea.gmane.org>
References:
<OF69C872C6.80D4A2B2-ON80256FBF.005A5236-80256FBF.005BB28B at ricoh-uk.com>
Reply-To: "Buck Calabro" <kc2hiz.you.know.what.goes at dom.ain>
X-Complaints-To: usenet at sea.gmane.org
X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 209-23-60-152.tvc-ip.com
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4922.1500
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4925.2800
Sender: news <news at sea.gmane.org>
X-Gmane-MailScanner: Found to be clean
X-Gmane-MailScanner: Found to be clean
X-MailScanner-From: rpg400 at m.gmane.org
X-MailScanner-To: rpg400-l at midrange.com
X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/758/Wed Mar 9 06:03:56 2005 on
linux.midrange.com
X-Virus-Status: Clean
X-Greylist: Default is to whitelist mail, not delayed by
milter-greylist-1.7.2
	(mail.midrange.com [69.3.23.26]);
	Wed, 09 Mar 2005 11:09:15 -0600 (CST)
----------

david


From david at midrange.com  Wed Mar  9 20:04:40 2005
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 13:04:40 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Non-members allowed to post!
In-Reply-To: <p06200795be54f06820f2@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <BE545E7A.2FE1%jwblist@olympus.net>
	<p06200795be54f06820f2@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <422F48C8.5010906@midrange.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>     Does any Mailman administrator have any agreement with Gmane, or is
> it just the users.

I'm pretty sure it's the users.

david

-- 
David Gibbs
david at midrange.com

Receipt of this message does not grant you permission to send me
Unsolicited Commercial Email


From jonj at atwk.com  Wed Mar  9 20:07:32 2005
From: jonj at atwk.com (Jon Jacobsen)
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 12:07:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with cron jobs
Message-ID: <422F4974.701@atwk.com>

Hi,

I installed a Redhat rpm mailman-2.1.5-23 on a Redhat enterprise server. 
The mailman appears to be working, but I'm having problems with cron. 
When the job run root posts to the 'mailman' list I created the following:

/bin/sh: line 1: mailman: command not found

I have no errors with 'check_perms' and /etc/cron.d/mailman looks fine. 
I can run:

#su - mailman -c "/var/mailman/cron/gate_news"

without errors.

Any Ideas?

Jon


From david at midrange.com  Wed Mar  9 20:04:40 2005
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 13:04:40 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Non-members allowed to post!
In-Reply-To: <p06200795be54f06820f2@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <BE545E7A.2FE1%jwblist@olympus.net>
	<p06200795be54f06820f2@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <422F48C8.5010906@midrange.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>     Does any Mailman administrator have any agreement with Gmane, or is
> it just the users.

I'm pretty sure it's the users.

david

-- 
David Gibbs
david at midrange.com

Receipt of this message does not grant you permission to send me
Unsolicited Commercial Email



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Mar  9 21:52:33 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 21:52:33 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with cron jobs
In-Reply-To: <422F4974.701@atwk.com>
References: <422F4974.701@atwk.com>
Message-ID: <p06200798be55126b19a7@[10.0.1.3]>

At 12:07 PM -0700 2005-03-09, Jon Jacobsen wrote:

>  I installed a Redhat rpm mailman-2.1.5-23 on a Redhat enterprise server.
>  The mailman appears to be working, but I'm having problems with cron. When
>  the job run root posts to the 'mailman' list I created the following:
>
>  /bin/sh: line 1: mailman: command not found

	Have you looked at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.025.htp> 
and 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.057.htp>?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From forrie at forrie.com  Wed Mar  9 22:12:52 2005
From: forrie at forrie.com (Forrest Aldrich)
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 16:12:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman High Availability Configuration
	andScalability
In-Reply-To: <PC174220050308145509004631493737@msapiro>
References: <PC174220050308145509004631493737@msapiro>
Message-ID: <422F66D4.9090100@forrie.com>

Thanks to the people who responded privately.

To clarify:  by "High Availability" I mean a redundant configuration -- 
are there any documents on how to do this with Mailman.   Can it 
interface with LDAP, etc. etc.   War stories (good and bad) welcomed :-)

Thanks in advance...



Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Forrest Aldrich wrote:
>  
>
>>Does Mailman provide an API that may enable hooks into/from other 
>>applications.
>>    
>>
>
>You might be interested in
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2005-January/017722.html
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>  
>


From jonj at atwk.com  Wed Mar  9 22:40:55 2005
From: jonj at atwk.com (Jon Jacobsen)
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 14:40:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with cron jobs
In-Reply-To: <p06200798be55126b19a7@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <422F4974.701@atwk.com> <p06200798be55126b19a7@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <422F6D67.60007@atwk.com>

Yes. I believe the 'mailman' list it setup correctly. I am trying to 
figure out why I am getting a bash error when then python script runs. I 
even put  .bashrc in mailman's home directory.  I run:

su mailman -c "/usr/bin/python -S -v /var/mailman/cron/disabled"

and don't see any errors in the dump to standard IO. 
/var/log/mailman/error does not show errors either

Thanks

Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 12:07 PM -0700 2005-03-09, Jon Jacobsen wrote:
> 
>>  I installed a Redhat rpm mailman-2.1.5-23 on a Redhat enterprise server.
>>  The mailman appears to be working, but I'm having problems with cron. 
>> When
>>  the job run root posts to the 'mailman' list I created the following:
>>
>>  /bin/sh: line 1: mailman: command not found
> 
> 
>     Have you looked at 
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.025.htp> 
> and <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.057.htp>?
> 


From jdennis at redhat.com  Wed Mar  9 22:45:14 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 16:45:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with cron jobs
In-Reply-To: <422F4974.701@atwk.com>
References: <422F4974.701@atwk.com>
Message-ID: <1110404714.24394.41.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Wed, 2005-03-09 at 12:07 -0700, Jon Jacobsen wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I installed a Redhat rpm mailman-2.1.5-23 on a Redhat enterprise server. 
> The mailman appears to be working, but I'm having problems with cron. 
> When the job run root posts to the 'mailman' list I created the following:
> 
> /bin/sh: line 1: mailman: command not found
> 
> I have no errors with 'check_perms' and /etc/cron.d/mailman looks fine. 
> I can run:
> 
> #su - mailman -c "/var/mailman/cron/gate_news"
> 
> without errors.
> 
> Any Ideas?

There is a difference between the format of cron jobs created with
crontab vs. what is the system cron files located in /etc/cron.d. That
difference is the insertion of the username (uid) that the cron job is
to be run as. The username is inserted after the 5 time fields and
before the command. Look at the file /etc/cron.d/mailman, you'll see
lines that look something like this:

0 5 1 * * mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds

Note that the 6th field is the username "mailman" which is the user the
command is supposed run with the privileges of. ONLY files
in /etc/cron.d have this extra field. If you installed the cron jobs
using the command "crontab" using a file that has this format (recall
that crontab files DO NOT have the username in them, its specified as an
argument to crontab (e.g. -u) then cron will be confused into thinking
the command is "mailman" because the 6th entry in a crontab file is the
command (its the 7th entry in a system cron file).

This is the most likely cause of the symptom you report. The rpm is
supposed to correctly handle the cron installation and is aware of the
difference between "system cron files" and files passed to crontab (of
course there might be an rpm bug, especially if you didn't manually try
to modify what the rpm installation did).

I just spoke with the cron maintainer here who said there were some
versions of cron in RHEL3 (which is the distribution your mailman rpm
came from) that had some bugs. You could try updating your version of
cron and see if that helps, but it really sounds to me like a mismatch
of the cron formats.

-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From jonj at atwk.com  Wed Mar  9 22:59:03 2005
From: jonj at atwk.com (Jon Jacobsen)
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 14:59:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with cron jobs
In-Reply-To: <1110404714.24394.41.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
References: <422F4974.701@atwk.com>
	<1110404714.24394.41.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <422F71A7.2080401@atwk.com>

It seems that /var/mailman/cron/crontab.in gets copied to 
/etc/cron.d/mailman when mailman is started. These files are the same 
and I have not modified them. It does appear that the Redhat cron is 
having a problem executing the script as mailman user.

John Dennis wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-03-09 at 12:07 -0700, Jon Jacobsen wrote:
> 
>>Hi,
>>
>>I installed a Redhat rpm mailman-2.1.5-23 on a Redhat enterprise server. 
>>The mailman appears to be working, but I'm having problems with cron. 
>>When the job run root posts to the 'mailman' list I created the following:
>>
>>/bin/sh: line 1: mailman: command not found
>>
>>I have no errors with 'check_perms' and /etc/cron.d/mailman looks fine. 
>>I can run:
>>
>>#su - mailman -c "/var/mailman/cron/gate_news"
>>
>>without errors.
>>
>>Any Ideas?
> 
> 
> There is a difference between the format of cron jobs created with
> crontab vs. what is the system cron files located in /etc/cron.d. That
> difference is the insertion of the username (uid) that the cron job is
> to be run as. The username is inserted after the 5 time fields and
> before the command. Look at the file /etc/cron.d/mailman, you'll see
> lines that look something like this:
> 
> 0 5 1 * * mailman /usr/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds
> 
> Note that the 6th field is the username "mailman" which is the user the
> command is supposed run with the privileges of. ONLY files
> in /etc/cron.d have this extra field. If you installed the cron jobs
> using the command "crontab" using a file that has this format (recall
> that crontab files DO NOT have the username in them, its specified as an
> argument to crontab (e.g. -u) then cron will be confused into thinking
> the command is "mailman" because the 6th entry in a crontab file is the
> command (its the 7th entry in a system cron file).
> 
> This is the most likely cause of the symptom you report. The rpm is
> supposed to correctly handle the cron installation and is aware of the
> difference between "system cron files" and files passed to crontab (of
> course there might be an rpm bug, especially if you didn't manually try
> to modify what the rpm installation did).
> 
> I just spoke with the cron maintainer here who said there were some
> versions of cron in RHEL3 (which is the distribution your mailman rpm
> came from) that had some bugs. You could try updating your version of
> cron and see if that helps, but it really sounds to me like a mismatch
> of the cron formats.
> 


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Mar  9 23:49:05 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 23:49:05 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with cron jobs
In-Reply-To: <422F6D67.60007@atwk.com>
References: <422F4974.701@atwk.com>
	<p06200798be55126b19a7@[10.0.1.3]> <422F6D67.60007@atwk.com>
Message-ID: <p0620079bbe552d676cd2@[10.0.1.3]>

At 2:40 PM -0700 2005-03-09, Jon Jacobsen wrote:

>  Yes. I believe the 'mailman' list it setup correctly. I am trying to
>  figure out why I am getting a bash error when then python script runs.
>  I even put  .bashrc in mailman's home directory.

	Weird.  There shouldn't be any invocation of bash, at least not 
by Mailman or Python when trying to send e-mail to a list.

	Are you sure that you've got a Python executable where the 
Mailman scripts are expecting it?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Mar  9 23:46:46 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 23:46:46 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman High Availability
	Configuration 	andScalability
In-Reply-To: <422F66D4.9090100@forrie.com>
References: <PC174220050308145509004631493737@msapiro>
	<422F66D4.9090100@forrie.com>
Message-ID: <p0620079abe552d1f5c0e@[10.0.1.3]>

At 4:12 PM -0500 2005-03-09, Forrest Aldrich wrote:

>  To clarify:  by "High Availability" I mean a redundant configuration --
>  are there any documents on how to do this with Mailman.

	I'm not aware of anything.

>                                                           Can it interface
>  with LDAP, etc. etc.   War stories (good and bad) welcomed :-)


	There are member adapters, but to get the full story I think you 
need to spend some time searching the archives.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From daniel_bulli at wgbh.org  Thu Mar 10 00:09:54 2005
From: daniel_bulli at wgbh.org (Daniel Bulli)
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 18:09:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber's Choice - html or plain text?
Message-ID: <1045752945daniel_bulli@wgbh.org>

I would like to set up an announce list using Mailman, but would like the users to have the option to receive html or plain text emails.     I have only seen such an option on digest mode.

Does anyone know if this is possible?

Thanks,
Daniel




From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Thu Mar 10 03:50:58 2005
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2005 21:50:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] XHTML Compliant Web UI 2.1.6b4 Patch
Message-ID: <422F6FC2.27187.B0E8AD@localhost>

I have just uploaded a patch that will make the web UI for MM 2.1.6b4 
XHTML 1 strict compliant.

Well, the start of a patch. Currently only the listinfo pages are 
xhtml 1 compliant and some minor CSS formating ability.

As time goes by, I'm going to update the patch to include more of the 
UI pages.

Since this is my first atempt at something like this I thought I'd 
post it incrementally in case anyone finds something terrible wrong 
with what I'm doing :)

It it patch 1160353 in the Sourceforge Mailman patch repository.
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1160353&group
_id=103&atid=300103

If anyone has any feedback on it, I'd love to hear it.

-- 
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
"When they put 'unknown' at the end of a quote, that means they 
probably don't know how to spell 'anonymous'." 
~Author Unknown 




From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar 10 05:34:00 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 20:34:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Non-members allowed to post!
In-Reply-To: <422F486E.30801@midrange.com>
Message-ID: <PC1742200503092034000703ff74e7df@msapiro>

David Gibbs wrote:
>
>At this point I'm 99% sure that Mailman is misinterpreting the
>'X-MailScanner-From' header, because that's the only place that the
>'rpg400 at m.gmane.org' address is showing up.

In
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-March/043346.html
I said:

<quote>
If you remove any "USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = Yes" from mm_cfg.py and put

SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', 'reply-to', 'sender')

into mm_cfg.py, then envelope sender won't be used at all. That might
help.
</quote>

and in
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-March/043354.html
you replied

<quote>
I actually changed that in my mm_cfg.py file after this problem started 
in hopes that it would help.  The original value was No, I changed it
to 
Yes.

Now the messages are held because 'news at sea.gmane.org' is not a
member 
of the list.
</quote>

I thought that meant that when you followed my suggestion (which
removes envelope sender from consideration), that posts weren't
accepted. Doesn't that prove that it is envelope sender and not
misinterpretation of X-MailScanner-From: that allows the post through?

When the message is piped to Mailman, There should be a Return-Path:
header as the very first header which contains the envelope sender.

If you give me permission, I'll post a very simple message to your list
with envelope sender rpg400 at m.gmane.org and no header containing that
address (except maybe an X-Authentication-Warning), and we'll see what
happens.

BTW, does your list have local archives? If so, the archive .mbox file
has "unix from" lines at the beginning of each message (lines of the
form "From user at example.com date/time". It also has in my case at
least, a Return-Path: header in each message. These contain the
envelope sender.

>Here's a copy of the full headers (personal email address obfuscated)
>for a message that came from gmane.  "buck.calabro at dom.ain" is indeed a
>subscriber to the list in question.
>
>----------
>
>Received: from ciao.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2])
>	by mail.midrange.com (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id j29H988r031251
>	(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO)
>	for <rpg400-l at midrange.com>; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 11:09:15 -0600
>Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43)
>	id 1D94du-0006l2-Pj
>	for rpg400-l at midrange.com; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 18:06:42 +0100
>Received: from 209-23-60-152.tvc-ip.com ([209.23.60.152])
>	by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian))
>	id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00
>	for <rpg400-l at midrange.com>; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 18:06:42 +0100
>Received: from buck.calabro by 209-23-60-152.tvc-ip.com with local
>(Gmexim 0.1
>	(Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00
>	for <rpg400-l at midrange.com>; Wed, 09 Mar 2005 18:06:42 +0100
>X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/
>To: rpg400-l at midrange.com
>From: "Buck Calabro" <buck.calabro at dom.ain>
>Subject: Re: Making sense of 4-byte binary fields
>Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 12:04:06 -0500
>Lines: 17
>Message-ID: <d0na9m$m7s$1 at sea.gmane.org>
>References:
><OF69C872C6.80D4A2B2-ON80256FBF.005A5236-80256FBF.005BB28B at ricoh-uk.com>
>Reply-To: "Buck Calabro" <kc2hiz.you.know.what.goes at dom.ain>
>X-Complaints-To: usenet at sea.gmane.org
>X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 209-23-60-152.tvc-ip.com
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4922.1500
>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4925.2800
>Sender: news <news at sea.gmane.org>
>X-Gmane-MailScanner: Found to be clean
>X-Gmane-MailScanner: Found to be clean
>X-MailScanner-From: rpg400 at m.gmane.org
>X-MailScanner-To: rpg400-l at midrange.com
>X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.83/758/Wed Mar 9 06:03:56 2005 on
>linux.midrange.com
>X-Virus-Status: Clean
>X-Greylist: Default is to whitelist mail, not delayed by
>milter-greylist-1.7.2
>	(mail.midrange.com [69.3.23.26]);
>	Wed, 09 Mar 2005 11:09:15 -0600 (CST)
>----------

And where did the above copy of the message come from?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar 10 05:48:59 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 20:48:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber's Choice - html or plain text?
In-Reply-To: <1045752945daniel_bulli@wgbh.org>
Message-ID: <PC1742200503092048590031b54093da@msapiro>

Daniel Bulli wrote:

>I would like to set up an announce list using Mailman, but would like the users to have the option to receive html or plain text emails.     I have only seen such an option on digest mode.
>
>Does anyone know if this is possible?

The option for digests is MIME vs. plain text, not HTML vs. plain text.
It controls whether the digest is sent with each post as a separate
message/rfc822 part vs. all messages in a flat text digest.

There is no user option for message or digest mode which allows
selection of HTML vs. plain text.

However, since you are talking about an announce list, and you have
control over what's posted, you could turn off (or not turn on)
content filtering for the list and then what you post will go to the
list as is, at least to non-digest subscribers, and you probably don't
have digest subscribers anyway.

Then you can post multipart/alternative with plain text and HTML parts
to the list and the users can select via their MUAs which part to view.

This may or may not be a satisfactory solution for you, but I think
it's the best you can do with current Mailman.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From it-support at stthomaschurch.org.uk  Thu Mar 10 09:27:56 2005
From: it-support at stthomaschurch.org.uk (it support (Jason))
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 08:27:56 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman complaining about script	permissions
	after  running normally for a period...
In-Reply-To: <422F20B0.3050108@amnh.org>
References: <422842A5.3090002@stthomaschurch.org.uk>
	<p0620074abe4e232402a1@[10.0.1.3]> <422F20B0.3050108@amnh.org>
Message-ID: <4230050C.7010000@stthomaschurch.org.uk>

Cheers,

I've eventually tracked it down to a sophos installation script. sophos, 
was being installed in the wrong place and that was affecting the file 
ownerships

Jaso

Ezra Taylor wrote:

> Something is changing the ownership of your files.  The previous 
> responder is right,  a cron or logrotate is doing this.
>
> Ezra
>
> Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>> At 11:12 AM +0000 2005-03-04, it support wrote:
>>
>>>  I've tracked down the problem to the ownership of the files are 
>>> changing.
>>>  No longer are they being owned by mailman, but by root. I can fix the
>>>  problem by resetting the ownership of the files to mailman and
>>>  re-running check_perms -f to fix any stray permissions, but its
>>>  frustrating for the list users who have to wait for this to be done.
>>
>>
>>
>>     There's nothing within Mailman that would cause this kind of 
>> behaviour.
>>
>>>  I've checked the cron scripts on the machine and can't see anything 
>>> that
>>>  would affect the files in that part of the file system.
>>
>>
>>
>>     I don't know anything about your OS.  I'd recommend you use the 
>> mailing lists, newsgroups, FAQs, etc... that are appropriate to what 
>> you're running.
>>
>>     I can tell you that the problem may be a logfile rotation script, 
>> or some other sort of cron job, or maybe it's being run indirectly -- 
>> some other cron job runs some other command which results in the kind 
>> of behaviour you're seeing.
>>
>>>  Has anyone else seen this problem and do they know the cause of it?
>>
>>
>>
>>     You could search the archives of the mailman-users mailing list, 
>> such as described at 
>> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.018.htp>. 
>> I've heard of these kinds of problems before, but I don't know if 
>> they occurred on the same platform that you're running.
>>
>


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content and is believed to be clean.



From sythos at sythos.net  Thu Mar 10 12:02:36 2005
From: sythos at sythos.net (Sythos)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 12:02:36 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding custom header widely
Message-ID: <20050310110236.GB20534@sythos.net>

hi all,
there is a way to add:
List-Archive: <http://www.mydomain.tld/cgi-bin/mailman/private/namelist>
List-Admin: <mailto:listadmin at domain.tld>

to ALL list (both new and already created)?

Regards,
	Sythos

PS: why the two header above aren't already/default inserted in mailman
header?

-- 

Sythos - http://www.sythos.net
  ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
  /\                        - against M$ attachments


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Mar 10 16:44:08 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 16:44:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding custom header widely
In-Reply-To: <20050310110236.GB20534@sythos.net>
References: <20050310110236.GB20534@sythos.net>
Message-ID: <p062007a5be561b2525a9@[10.0.1.3]>

At 12:02 PM +0100 2005-03-10, Sythos wrote:

>  hi all,
>  there is a way to add:
>  List-Archive: <http://www.mydomain.tld/cgi-bin/mailman/private/namelist>
>  List-Admin: <mailto:listadmin at domain.tld>
>
>  to ALL list (both new and already created)?

	IIRC, the "List-" headers are hard-coded, so if you edit the 
source code to include the additional "List-" headers that you want, 
that should work.

>  PS: why the two header above aren't already/default inserted in mailman
>  header?

	Not all lists have archives.  I imagine that one is added 
conditionally.  I'm not sure about the other one.


	If you look at the headers that are added on the mailman-users 
list (I got these from your own message, as it was posted to the 
list), you will find:

List-Id: Mailman mailing list management users <mailman-users.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>,
	<mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users>
List-Post: <mailto:mailman-users at python.org>
List-Help: <mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>,
	<mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=subscribe>

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From forrie at forrie.com  Thu Mar 10 17:33:10 2005
From: forrie at forrie.com (Forrest Aldrich)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 11:33:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding custom header widely
In-Reply-To: <p062007a5be561b2525a9@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <20050310110236.GB20534@sythos.net>
	<p062007a5be561b2525a9@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <423076C6.7080402@forrie.com>

Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 12:02 PM +0100 2005-03-10, Sythos wrote:
>
>>  hi all,
>>  there is a way to add:
>>  List-Archive: 
>> <http://www.mydomain.tld/cgi-bin/mailman/private/namelist>
>>  List-Admin: <mailto:listadmin at domain.tld>
>>
>>  to ALL list (both new and already created)?
>
>
>     IIRC, the "List-" headers are hard-coded, so if you edit the 
> source code to include the additional "List-" headers that you want, 
> that should work.
>
[ ... ]

On a related note, it was asked of me a while ago to "customize" the 
reponse messges that people get when subscribing to lists, or even to 
disable the confirmation messages (at the time, the angle was they were 
superfluous - which I don't agree with).

I found the code sections that contained the templates for the responses 
- might be a nice future "wish list" item to have those customizable via 
some template.


Thanks.



From dana at rasmussen.us  Thu Mar 10 21:27:19 2005
From: dana at rasmussen.us (Dana Rasmussen)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 12:27:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribeack.txt ?
Message-ID: <4230ADA7.2040603@rasmussen.us>

Hello,

I would like to modify the standard welcome message new subscribers will 
receive.

I understand that additions to the welcome message can be made through 
the admin pages.

I searched the FAQs and found that the file templates/subscribeack.txt 
can be modified as well.

Can I have a different version of subscribeack.txt for each list on my 
mailman server?

I am unsure of the pathname location for my modified vesion of 
sbscribeack.txt.  The FAQs say to "create a directory 
lists/<yourlist>/en (assumming English :) and copy 
templates/subscribeack.txt to this directory."

What is the fully qualified pathname for my modified version of 
subscribeack.txt?  One of my lists name is "scayso".

Would it be /mailman/lists/scayso/en/subscribeack.txt?

For additional lists would the pathname be /mailman/lists/<list 
name>/en/subscribeack.txt?

Thank you,

Dana


From ACrosman at afsc.org  Thu Mar 10 21:48:38 2005
From: ACrosman at afsc.org (Aaron Crosman)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 15:48:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribeack.txt ?
Message-ID: <B91F108ADD81414AB2C9CB7449D3CEC7A6CE42@DELTA.AFSC.local>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+acrosman=afsc.org at python.org 
> [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+acrosman=afsc.org at python.org] 
> On Behalf Of Dana Rasmussen
> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 3:27 PM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribeack.txt ?
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I would like to modify the standard welcome message new 
> subscribers will receive.
> 
> I understand that additions to the welcome message can be 
> made through the admin pages.
> 
> I searched the FAQs and found that the file 
> templates/subscribeack.txt can be modified as well.
> 
> Can I have a different version of subscribeack.txt for each 
> list on my mailman server?
> 
> I am unsure of the pathname location for my modified vesion 
> of sbscribeack.txt.  The FAQs say to "create a directory 
> lists/<yourlist>/en (assumming English :) and copy 
> templates/subscribeack.txt to this directory."
> 
> What is the fully qualified pathname for my modified version 
> of subscribeack.txt?  One of my lists name is "scayso".
> 
> Would it be /mailman/lists/scayso/en/subscribeack.txt?
> 
> For additional lists would the pathname be /mailman/lists/<list 
> name>/en/subscribeack.txt?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Dana

The location of your lists directory varies depending on your setup.

For instance my SuSE 9.1 installation (from SuSE RPM's) places the lists
directory at:
/var/lib/mailman/lists/

Other have lists in:
/var/mailman/lists/

I believe it's common to find lists in /usr/local/mailman/lists/ and
many other locations (it seems most distros seem to feel the need to use
a different location just to be different).

If you don't know where your lists live, you should be able to find them
using the find.  There are several ways to do that I would choose:
find -type d / | grep <list name> 2> /dev/null

There are probably more elegant ways to find the path, but this should
get you the information you need.  If you only have FTP access you'll
need a more elegant solution since running find wont be an option.

Aaron


From nospam2 at mcswartz.org  Thu Mar 10 22:22:51 2005
From: nospam2 at mcswartz.org (John Swartzentruber)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 16:22:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Uncaught bounce notification" question/problem
Message-ID: <4230BAAB.4080705@mcswartz.org>

When one user on one of my lists replies to list messages, they get sent 
to the bounce address and show up as uncaught bounces. I understand why 
this is happening, so that itself isn't my question. In the latest 
instance, this user also CC'ed the correct list address. It looks like 
the message was sent to:

To: A individual address
To: The "list-bounces" address
CC: The correct list address

My question is why the message never showed up for moderation (the list 
is moderated)? All that showed up was the "uncaught bounce" message. It 
seems that the actual message should also have come through. Is 
duplicates processing preventing that? In this case, I would prefer that 
the real message be processed and the bounce message be discarded 
instead of the other way around. If this isn't the case, what could have 
caused the message not to come through?



Here are the headers (with stuff crossed out or changed):

Received: from gatekeeper-sef.rcbhsc.wvu.edu (gatekeeper.rcbhsc.wvu.edu 
[xxx.xxx.216.2])
        by xx.xxx.xxx.net (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id
        j29IZVUc013396; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 13:35:33 -0500
Received: from nt-exchange1.xxxh.xxxhs.com by gatekeeper-sef.rcbhsc.xxx.edu
        via smtpd (for dslxxx-xxx-039.phl1.dsl.xxx.net [xxx.xxx.233.39])
        with ESMTP; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 13:35:32 -0500
Received: (private information removed)
Message-ID: 
<6DA651399AB6474DB8C407434D4241A8191AF4 at nt-exchange1.xxxh.xxxhs.com>
From: "Jones, Sally" <jonesl at rcbhsc.xxx.edu>
To: "'Richard J Smith '" <rmsmith at juno.com>,
        "'boguslist-bounces+jonesl=rcbhsc.xxx.edu at bogusdomain.org '"
        <boguslist-bounces+jonesl=rcbhsc.xxx.edu at bogusdomain.org>,
        "'fred.miller at earthlink.net '" <lin.miller at earthlink.net>
Cc: "'boguslist at bogusdomain.org '" <boguslist at bogusdomain.org>
Subject: RE: [BogusList] Subject
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 13:35:27 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
List-Help: <mailto:boguslist-request at bogusdomain.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://www.bogusdomain.org/mailman/listinfo/boguslist>,
        <mailto:boguslist-request at bogusdomain.org?subject=subscribe>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.bogusdomain.org/mailman/listinfo/boguslist>,
        <mailto:boguslist-request at bogusdomain.org?subject=unsubscribe>
X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-3, 6-7, 20-21, 30-31, 34-35, 43-45, 48, 55-56, 58, 
63-64,
        68-69, 76-77, 79
X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on 
localhost
X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on 
localhost
X-Virus-Status: Clean
X-BeenThere: boguslist at bogusdomain.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information
X-MailScanner: Found to be clean
X-MailScanner-From: boguslist-bounces+jonesl=rcbhsc.xxx.edu at bogusdomain.org
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="ISO-8859-1"




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Mar 10 23:12:56 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 23:12:56 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribeack.txt ?
In-Reply-To: <4230ADA7.2040603@rasmussen.us>
References: <4230ADA7.2040603@rasmussen.us>
Message-ID: <p062007acbe5676377e19@[10.0.1.3]>

At 12:27 PM -0800 2005-03-10, Dana Rasmussen wrote:

>  I understand that additions to the welcome message can be made through
>  the admin pages.

	Some changes, yes.

>  I searched the FAQs and found that the file templates/subscribeack.txt
>  can be modified as well.

	True.

>  Can I have a different version of subscribeack.txt for each list on
>  my mailman server?

	Yes.  In fact, you can have a different one for each language 
supported by each mailing list.

>  I am unsure of the pathname location for my modified vesion of
>  sbscribeack.txt.  The FAQs say to "create a directory
>  lists/<yourlist>/en (assumming English :) and copy
>  templates/subscribeack.txt to this directory."

	That's correct.

>  What is the fully qualified pathname for my modified version
>  of subscribeack.txt?  One of my lists name is "scayso".

	It all depends on where your machine puts the Mailman stuff.  By 
default, that's normally put into /usr/local/mailman, but that 
default may not be applicable to your installation.

>  Would it be /mailman/lists/scayso/en/subscribeack.txt?

	It could be.  Does your machine put all the Mailman stuff under 
/mailman?  If so, then you're probably correct.

>  For additional lists would the pathname be
>  /mailman/lists/<list name>/en/subscribeack.txt?

	Assuming the answer to the previous question is "Yes", then you 
have also figured out the answer to this question.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Mar 10 23:09:44 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 23:09:44 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding custom header widely
In-Reply-To: <423076C6.7080402@forrie.com>
References: <20050310110236.GB20534@sythos.net>
	<p062007a5be561b2525a9@[10.0.1.3]> <423076C6.7080402@forrie.com>
Message-ID: <p062007abbe5674b42327@[10.0.1.3]>

At 11:33 AM -0500 2005-03-10, Forrest Aldrich wrote:

>  On a related note, it was asked of me a while ago to "customize" the
>  reponse messges that people get when subscribing to lists, or even to
>  disable the confirmation messages (at the time, the angle was they
>  were superfluous - which I don't agree with).

	Which messages are you talking about?

>  I found the code sections that contained the templates for the
>  responses - might be a nice future "wish list" item to have those
>  customizable via some template.

	Some of these messages are editable via the web interface, some 
others are configurable via templates.

	There are also some that are hard-coded.  I addressed one of 
those in my proposed patch at 
<https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1107169&group_id=103&atid=300103>, 
but Tokio found a different way to resolve the problem, and his 
solution gives us another web-editable field.

	If you've got any others, please post the patches (if you can), 
or at least post adequate identifying information to the Mailman RFE 
page on SourceForge.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 11 02:23:03 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 17:23:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Uncaught bounce notification" question/problem
In-Reply-To: <4230BAAB.4080705@mcswartz.org>
Message-ID: <PC17422005031017230307185831a3f1@msapiro>

John Swartzentruber wrote:

>When one user on one of my lists replies to list messages, they get sent 
>to the bounce address and show up as uncaught bounces. I understand why 
>this is happening, so that itself isn't my question. In the latest 
>instance, this user also CC'ed the correct list address. It looks like 
>the message was sent to:
>
>To: A individual address
>To: The "list-bounces" address
>CC: The correct list address
>
>My question is why the message never showed up for moderation (the list 
>is moderated)? All that showed up was the "uncaught bounce" message. It 
>seems that the actual message should also have come through. Is 
>duplicates processing preventing that? In this case, I would prefer that 
>the real message be processed and the bounce message be discarded 
>instead of the other way around. If this isn't the case, what could have 
>caused the message not to come through?

The header - X-BeenThere: boguslist at bogusdomain.org

I'm guessing that these headers came from the "unrecognized bounce"
e-mail that you received. If that is the case, the "reply" contains
way too many headers from the original message that should not be
included in a reply. Rather than a "reply", it looks like a redirect
or resend.

But then, if these are headers from the bounce, I don't know why it
would be unrecognized as the reply address
<boguslist-bounces+jonesl=rcbhsc.xxx.edu at bogusdomain.org> appears to
be a VERP like address that should always be recognizable regardless
of message content.

>
>Here are the headers (with stuff crossed out or changed):
>
>Received: from gatekeeper-sef.rcbhsc.wvu.edu (gatekeeper.rcbhsc.wvu.edu 
>[xxx.xxx.216.2])
>        by xx.xxx.xxx.net (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id
>        j29IZVUc013396; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 13:35:33 -0500
>Received: from nt-exchange1.xxxh.xxxhs.com by gatekeeper-sef.rcbhsc.xxx.edu
>        via smtpd (for dslxxx-xxx-039.phl1.dsl.xxx.net [xxx.xxx.233.39])
>        with ESMTP; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 13:35:32 -0500
>Received: (private information removed)
>Message-ID: 
><6DA651399AB6474DB8C407434D4241A8191AF4 at nt-exchange1.xxxh.xxxhs.com>
>From: "Jones, Sally" <jonesl at rcbhsc.xxx.edu>
>To: "'Richard J Smith '" <rmsmith at juno.com>,
>        "'boguslist-bounces+jonesl=rcbhsc.xxx.edu at bogusdomain.org '"
>        <boguslist-bounces+jonesl=rcbhsc.xxx.edu at bogusdomain.org>,
>        "'fred.miller at earthlink.net '" <lin.miller at earthlink.net>
>Cc: "'boguslist at bogusdomain.org '" <boguslist at bogusdomain.org>
>Subject: RE: [BogusList] Subject
>Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 13:35:27 -0500
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
>List-Help: <mailto:boguslist-request at bogusdomain.org?subject=help>
>List-Subscribe: <http://www.bogusdomain.org/mailman/listinfo/boguslist>,
>        <mailto:boguslist-request at bogusdomain.org?subject=subscribe>
>List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.bogusdomain.org/mailman/listinfo/boguslist>,
>        <mailto:boguslist-request at bogusdomain.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33
>X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-3, 6-7, 20-21, 30-31, 34-35, 43-45, 48, 55-56, 58, 
>63-64,
>        68-69, 76-77, 79
>X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on 
>localhost
>X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on 
>localhost
>X-Virus-Status: Clean
>X-BeenThere: boguslist at bogusdomain.org
>X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
>X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information
>X-MailScanner: Found to be clean
>X-MailScanner-From: boguslist-bounces+jonesl=rcbhsc.xxx.edu at bogusdomain.org
>Content-Type: text/plain;
>        charset="ISO-8859-1"

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From nospam2 at mcswartz.org  Fri Mar 11 02:33:51 2005
From: nospam2 at mcswartz.org (John Swartzentruber)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 20:33:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: "Uncaught bounce notification" question/problem
In-Reply-To: <PC17422005031017230307185831a3f1@msapiro>
References: <4230BAAB.4080705@mcswartz.org>
	<PC17422005031017230307185831a3f1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4230F57F.9090002@mcswartz.org>

On 3/10/2005 8:23 PM Mark Sapiro wrote:
> John Swartzentruber wrote:
> 
> 
>>When one user on one of my lists replies to list messages, they get sent 
>>to the bounce address and show up as uncaught bounces. I understand why 
>>this is happening, so that itself isn't my question. In the latest 
>>instance, this user also CC'ed the correct list address. It looks like 
>>the message was sent to:
>>
>>To: A individual address
>>To: The "list-bounces" address
>>CC: The correct list address
>>
>>My question is why the message never showed up for moderation (the list 
>>is moderated)? All that showed up was the "uncaught bounce" message. It 
>>seems that the actual message should also have come through. Is 
>>duplicates processing preventing that? In this case, I would prefer that 
>>the real message be processed and the bounce message be discarded 
>>instead of the other way around. If this isn't the case, what could have 
>>caused the message not to come through?
> 
> 
> The header - X-BeenThere: boguslist at bogusdomain.org
> 
> I'm guessing that these headers came from the "unrecognized bounce"
> e-mail that you received. If that is the case, the "reply" contains
> way too many headers from the original message that should not be
> included in a reply. Rather than a "reply", it looks like a redirect
> or resend.

She *claims* she just did a "Reply All". She's using Outlook so anything 
is possible. The headers are definitely very weird. You'll also notice 
that there are Juno specific headers and she isn't using Juno. Those 
were from the message that she is replying too.

Thanks for reminding me about the X-BeenThere. I guess that clears up 
the Mailman mystery. The Outlook mystery is outside of the scope of this 
list.




> But then, if these are headers from the bounce, I don't know why it
> would be unrecognized as the reply address
> <boguslist-bounces+jonesl=rcbhsc.xxx.edu at bogusdomain.org> appears to
> be a VERP like address that should always be recognizable regardless
> of message content.
> 
> 
>>Here are the headers (with stuff crossed out or changed):
>>
>>Received: from gatekeeper-sef.rcbhsc.wvu.edu (gatekeeper.rcbhsc.wvu.edu 
>>[xxx.xxx.216.2])
>>       by xx.xxx.xxx.net (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id
>>       j29IZVUc013396; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 13:35:33 -0500
>>Received: from nt-exchange1.xxxh.xxxhs.com by gatekeeper-sef.rcbhsc.xxx.edu
>>       via smtpd (for dslxxx-xxx-039.phl1.dsl.xxx.net [xxx.xxx.233.39])
>>       with ESMTP; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 13:35:32 -0500
>>Received: (private information removed)
>>Message-ID: 
>><6DA651399AB6474DB8C407434D4241A8191AF4 at nt-exchange1.xxxh.xxxhs.com>
>>From: "Jones, Sally" <jonesl at rcbhsc.xxx.edu>
>>To: "'Richard J Smith '" <rmsmith at juno.com>,
>>       "'boguslist-bounces+jonesl=rcbhsc.xxx.edu at bogusdomain.org '"
>>       <boguslist-bounces+jonesl=rcbhsc.xxx.edu at bogusdomain.org>,
>>       "'fred.miller at earthlink.net '" <lin.miller at earthlink.net>
>>Cc: "'boguslist at bogusdomain.org '" <boguslist at bogusdomain.org>
>>Subject: RE: [BogusList] Subject
>>Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 13:35:27 -0500
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)
>>List-Help: <mailto:boguslist-request at bogusdomain.org?subject=help>
>>List-Subscribe: <http://www.bogusdomain.org/mailman/listinfo/boguslist>,
>>       <mailto:boguslist-request at bogusdomain.org?subject=subscribe>
>>List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.bogusdomain.org/mailman/listinfo/boguslist>,
>>       <mailto:boguslist-request at bogusdomain.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>>X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33
>>X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-3, 6-7, 20-21, 30-31, 34-35, 43-45, 48, 55-56, 58, 
>>63-64,
>>       68-69, 76-77, 79
>>X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on 
>>localhost
>>X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV version 0.83, clamav-milter version 0.83 on 
>>localhost
>>X-Virus-Status: Clean
>>X-BeenThere: boguslist at bogusdomain.org
>>X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
>>X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information
>>X-MailScanner: Found to be clean
>>X-MailScanner-From: boguslist-bounces+jonesl=rcbhsc.xxx.edu at bogusdomain.org
>>Content-Type: text/plain;
>>       charset="ISO-8859-1"
> 
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 



From lists at datatravels.com  Fri Mar 11 05:51:34 2005
From: lists at datatravels.com (lists at datatravels.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 20:51:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender filters discard messages but can't forward
	to the list owner?
Message-ID: <ee713bc1318d43bc31c400d46dfc6f94@datatravels.com>

MailMan Users list.

Here is what seems to be to be a limitation of MailMain, I am writing 
to this list to confirm the limitation as I understand it.

I want to have a moderated announce-only list where list members cannot 
post to the list. I have done this by making all of my users moderated. 
In Privacy options > Sender Filters, I can set members' messages to be 
Accepted, Held, Rejected, or Discarded.

What I want are the messages to be Discarded, but ALSO forwarded to the 
mailing list owner. It seems that this is impossible with MailMan, 
please confirm if this is your understanding as well.

I was trying to configure it this way because I wanted users to be able 
to hit 'Reply' and send an unsubscribe request and have their message 
be intercepted by the MailMan software (it says it can "intercept 
message that look like admin requests"), perform the necessary 
unsubscribe, OR if the message does not appear to be an admin request, 
forward it to the list owner.

If I set the Reply-To of the to be the list owner always (or an 
explicit address in General Options), then when a user hits 'reply' and 
types a command it goes to that list owner's email address, by passing 
the list altogether.

Please let me know if there is any way I can do what I am trying to do 
with Mail Man.  What I am concluding from this experience is the 
MailMan is basically programmed only to let you unsubscribe in two 
ways:

1) using the unsubscribe email address provided in the List Headers
2) using the URL provided in the user's General List Info page

It is not programmed to intercept messages and check them to see if 
they are requests and forward them if they are not. Is that conclusion 
correct?

Thanks for your help.

Jason FB



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 11 07:27:58 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 22:27:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender filters discard messages but can't
	forwardto the list owner?
In-Reply-To: <ee713bc1318d43bc31c400d46dfc6f94@datatravels.com>
Message-ID: <PC1742200503102227580406bfb81770@msapiro>

lists at datatravels.com wrote:
>
>Here is what seems to be to be a limitation of MailMain, I am writing 
>to this list to confirm the limitation as I understand it.
>
>I want to have a moderated announce-only list where list members cannot 
>post to the list. I have done this by making all of my users moderated. 
>In Privacy options > Sender Filters, I can set members' messages to be 
>Accepted, Held, Rejected, or Discarded.

Well, you can't actually set member_moderation_action to Accept because
it is logically inconsistent with moderation in the first place, but
other than that, you are correct.

>What I want are the messages to be Discarded, but ALSO forwarded to the 
>mailing list owner. It seems that this is impossible with MailMan, 
>please confirm if this is your understanding as well.

Yes, that is correct.

>I was trying to configure it this way because I wanted users to be able 
>to hit 'Reply' and send an unsubscribe request and have their message 
>be intercepted by the MailMan software (it says it can "intercept 
>message that look like admin requests"), perform the necessary 
>unsubscribe, OR if the message does not appear to be an admin request, 
>forward it to the list owner.

Administrivia doesn't work this way anyway, The description is

  Administrivia tests will check postings to see whether it's really
  meant as an administrative request (like subscribe, unsubscribe, etc),
  and will add it to the the administrative requests queue, notifying
  the administrator of the new request, in the process.

This could be more clear, but what happens is the same thing as "Hold".
I.e. if administrivia is yes, a post that appears to be an
administrative request is held for administrator action. It is not
automatically acted on.

>If I set the Reply-To of the to be the list owner always (or an 
>explicit address in General Options), then when a user hits 'reply' and 
>types a command it goes to that list owner's email address, by passing 
>the list altogether.
>
>Please let me know if there is any way I can do what I am trying to do 
>with Mail Man.  What I am concluding from this experience is the 
>MailMan is basically programmed only to let you unsubscribe in two 
>ways:
>
>1) using the unsubscribe email address provided in the List Headers
>2) using the URL provided in the user's General List Info page
>
>It is not programmed to intercept messages and check them to see if 
>they are requests and forward them if they are not. Is that conclusion 
>correct?

More or less. If you haven't seen
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp
check it out. It has some ideas for dealing with unsubscribes on an
announce-only list, but without hacking code, you can't have a message
to the list be discarded except if it looks like an unsub request and
have it automatically result in an unsub in that case.

You could come close to what you want by setting administrivia to Yes
and setting member_moderation_action to Discard and setting a pipeline
attribute for the list which is the same as the default
GLOBAL_PIPELINE except put 'Hold' before 'Moderate'. Since Hold
processes administrivia, this should result in an administrivia
message being held and if it's not administrivia, it will pass on to
moderate and be discarded. An administrator would still have to
manually unsubscribe the user, but it seems close.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From a.riegebauer at nacs.at  Thu Mar 10 11:39:09 2005
From: a.riegebauer at nacs.at (Andreas Riegebauer)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 11:39:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem
Message-ID: <423023CD.4000107@nacs.at>

Hello!

I hope you can help me. I have a problem with mailman. I don't know why
but all mails go to /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/shunt an no mail is received
by any mail list.

Regards
Andreas Riegebauer


From roach at corpse.net  Fri Mar 11 01:23:14 2005
From: roach at corpse.net (roach)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 16:23:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [continued] No address associated with nodename
Message-ID: <4e910912bc79b7ce743fa404009a996d@corpse.net>

Did this issue ever get solved? I'm getting and identical error, but 
just using the standard OS X Server setup. It was working fine for a 
bit, but now has stopped.



From joakim at nomell.se  Fri Mar 11 09:08:27 2005
From: joakim at nomell.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Joakim_N=F6mell?=)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 09:08:27 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Searchable
In-Reply-To: <p06200791be548099ec56@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <7af451c853cbf35a1db3119f6ffbfeab@mac.com>
	<p06200791be548099ec56@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503110903230.16005@jajja.nomell.se>

On Wed, 9 Mar 2005, Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 10:17 PM -0500 2005-03-07, Adam wrote:
>
>>  Is there any way to make a mailman list archive keyword searchable
>>  across all dates?
>
> 	Go to the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> and search for "searchable".

Hi. I read the FAQ at 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.011.htp and 
downloaded the patch for my 2.1.5 at
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=444884&group_id=103&atid=300103
But when trying to apply the patch I get the following (Redhat 9):
[root at jajja mailman-2.1.5]# patch -p1 <../htdig-2.1.5-0.1.patch
<??H];P           ?kB? 
3f?w{k??????/h<???
!96??L??G???Gs??????^y&?t8?????7H??????i;8s[`??3SK?nc?'???n??$^s
|:??j?????b?v3??vZu?d?^??q!@3k?mG?e?C0GE??@@j?W7???D?u](
2??5???????o???????v?XIp<??  +       ?
??k??    j?*?m>@3?l?K0*s?,SW2
L?!\?p?%f???u)J???ZrF???l??????mO|?????????jn?k??K?=po%????d??(h??+??mO??\??:??p?
        O:]f2R?+??????A?~4]S? ;???s)?Y+??v+??"[?? 
?T???????j????-?^D??S    ?
<?b??;/???z??!?          ?w?v?<?=m1~ 
B?}??
--------------------------??o
File to patch:
So, something is wrong =)

-- 
___________________________________________________________________
Joakim N?mell     Tel  : 070 771 31 00      MSN  : joakim at nomell.nu
Unix engineer     Fax  : 070 711 31 00      Web  : http://nomell.se
-------------------------------------------------------------------

* When seeking love gives nothing, have found love gives all *


From St.Waidele at LinuxBasics.org  Fri Mar 11 09:49:19 2005
From: St.Waidele at LinuxBasics.org (Stefan Waidele jun.)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 09:49:19 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] name 'nan' is not defined
Message-ID: <d0rlq1$g0t$1@sea.gmane.org>

Hi,

we are running some small lists using Mailman 2.15, with the fix 
described in http://www.list.org/security.html

It has been quite a while since we applied that fix, and things 
continued to run smoothly.

Everything was fine, until two days ago, delivery stopped. Completely.
We did not change anything in the list-setup. The mail-accounts are 
reachable. The outgoing server is working as allways. A mail that is 
send to the lists pops up in 'mailq' for a moment and dissappears again 
(-> is delivered to MM).

Where else could I look?

The following lines are logged in .../logs/error for each mail:
---8<-----------------------------------------
Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942): Traceback (most recent call last):
Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942):   File "/home/mailman/bin/qrunner", 
line 270, in ?
Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942):      main()
Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942):   File "/home/mailman/bin/qrunner", 
line 230, in main
Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942):      qrunner.run()
Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942):   File 
"/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 65, in run
Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942):   File 
"/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 93, in _oneloop
Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942):      msg, msgdata = 
self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942):   File 
"/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 156, in dequeue
Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942):      data = self._ext_read(dbfile)
Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942):   File 
"/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 276, in _ext_read
Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942):      dict[attr] = eval(sval, 
{'__builtins__': {}})
Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942):   File "<string>", line 0, in ?
Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942): NameError :  name 'nan' is not defined
---8<-----------------------------------------

Has anybody an idea what we might try?

Thank you very much,

Stefan


-- 
"Whenever we desire, [we] as a standalone company, could raise
the price of the  patent-protected portion of our software and
immediately have enormous cash-flow."
     http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20050223205453141



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Mar 11 13:14:46 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 13:14:46 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] name 'nan' is not defined
In-Reply-To: <d0rlq1$g0t$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <d0rlq1$g0t$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <p06200700be573bd366ba@[10.0.1.3]>

At 9:49 AM +0100 2005-03-11, Stefan Waidele jun. wrote:

>  Everything was fine, until two days ago, delivery stopped. Completely.
>  We did not change anything in the list-setup. The mail-accounts are
>  reachable. The outgoing server is working as allways. A mail that is
>  send to the lists pops up in 'mailq' for a moment and dissappears again
>  (-> is delivered to MM).

	What version of Python are you running?  Note that Mailman 2.1.5 
requires Python version 2.3 or greater (see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq05.008.htp>).

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From theall at tifaware.com  Fri Mar 11 14:31:14 2005
From: theall at tifaware.com (George Theall)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 08:31:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Searchable
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503110903230.16005@jajja.nomell.se>
References: <7af451c853cbf35a1db3119f6ffbfeab@mac.com>
	<p06200791be548099ec56@[10.0.1.3]>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0503110903230.16005@jajja.nomell.se>
Message-ID: <20050311133114.GA2874@tifaware.com>

On Fri, Mar 11, 2005 at 09:08:27AM +0100, Joakim N?mell wrote:

> But when trying to apply the patch I get the following (Redhat 9):
> [root at jajja mailman-2.1.5]# patch -p1 <../htdig-2.1.5-0.1.patch
> <??H];P           ?kB? 

That doesn't look like a patch file, at least not an uncompressed one.
What does "file ../htdig-2.1.5-0.1.patch" report? 

George
-- 
theall at tifaware.com
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From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Mar 11 14:52:02 2005
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 22:52:02 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [continued] No address associated with nodename
In-Reply-To: <4e910912bc79b7ce743fa404009a996d@corpse.net> (roach@corpse.net's
	message of "Thu, 10 Mar 2005 16:23:14 -0800")
References: <4e910912bc79b7ce743fa404009a996d@corpse.net>
Message-ID: <878y4ul27x.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "roach" == roach  <roach at corpse.net> writes:

    roach> Did this issue ever get solved? I'm getting and identical
    roach> error, but just using the standard OS X Server setup. It
    roach> was working fine for a bit, but now has stopped.

I don't know about Server, but on ordinary Mac OS X I see that error
fairly frequently.  As far as I can tell my university's network just
takes an awful long time to get the domain lookups back, and Mac OS X
times out.  Try again, and I almost always get immediate satisfaction.

Of course that's not satisfactory for a daemon process.

-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From ftnx at ksbase.com  Fri Mar 11 14:57:01 2005
From: ftnx at ksbase.com (Not Here)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 08:57:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Searchable
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503110903230.16005@jajja.nomell.se>
Message-ID: <1110531539@ksbase>


Friday March 11 2005 09:08, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Joakim_N=F6mell?= wrote to 
All:

 im> mailman-2.1.5]# patch -p1 <../htdig-2.1.5-0.1.patch <^1?H];P

Wrong syntax. You need a space after "<".

 KS

   KARICO Business Services
   Toronto, ON Canada
   http://www.karico.ca


... My Data is Delightful.  (When Present)



From jwblist at olympus.net  Fri Mar 11 17:20:39 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 08:20:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender filters discard messages but can't
	forwardto the list owner?
In-Reply-To: <PC1742200503102227580406bfb81770@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BE570557.3142%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 3/10/2005 22:27, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> lists at datatravels.com wrote:
>> 
>> Here is what seems to be to be a limitation of MailMain, I am writing
>> to this list to confirm the limitation as I understand it.
>> 
>> I want to have a moderated announce-only list where list members cannot
>> post to the list. I have done this by making all of my users moderated.
>> In Privacy options > Sender Filters, I can set members' messages to be
>> Accepted, Held, Rejected, or Discarded.
> 
> Well, you can't actually set member_moderation_action to Accept because
> it is logically inconsistent with moderation in the first place, but
> other than that, you are correct.
> 
>> What I want are the messages to be Discarded, but ALSO forwarded to the
>> mailing list owner. It seems that this is impossible with MailMan,
>> please confirm if this is your understanding as well.
> 
> Yes, that is correct.
> 
> ...[good material omitted]

And if you have control of the MTA configuration, you can tell the MTA to
send copies of messages to this particular list to the desired
administrator.  The administrator could if desired then run a filter in
his/her mail flow which tries to show him/her only things that look like
"unsubscribe" requests if addressed to the list.  I say try because some
such requests will be worded more interestingly than "unsubscribe".

How to do that depends on the MTA and on how it's configured to deal with
Mailman lists.

  --John



From St.Waidele at LinuxBasics.org  Fri Mar 11 17:43:44 2005
From: St.Waidele at LinuxBasics.org (Stefan Waidele jun.)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 17:43:44 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: name 'nan' is not defined
In-Reply-To: <p06200700be573bd366ba@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <d0rlq1$g0t$1@sea.gmane.org> <p06200700be573bd366ba@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <d0shjd$89e$1@sea.gmane.org>

Brad Knowles schrieb:
> [...]
>     What version of Python are you running?  Note that Mailman 2.1.5 
> requires Python version 2.3 or greater 

Python 2.3+
I did not have any problems before.

It ran. It ran. It stopped.
There is diskspace, load average is somewhere at 0.1, everything runs 
fine (postfix, cyrus-imap, apache, zope, mysql... no problems - no changes)

...
Stefan


-- 
"Whenever we desire, [we] as a standalone company, could raise
the price of the  patent-protected portion of our software and
immediately have enormous cash-flow."
     http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20050223205453141



From tak at thorie.com  Fri Mar 11 18:38:21 2005
From: tak at thorie.com (Timothy Horie)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 09:38:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up mailman website
Message-ID: <4231D78D.8010201@thorie.com>

Hello

I installed Mailman and I tried to follow step 4 Final system set-up, 
but I don't understand what I am supposed to do. There are the things I did:

1) I added ScriptAlias /mailman/ /home/tak/mailman/cgi-bin/ to 
/etc/apache/httpd.conf
2) I copied /home/tak/mailman/icons/*.{jpg,png} to /var/www/icons
3) I added IMAGE_LOGOS='/images/' to /home/tak/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
4) I added Alias /pipermail/ /home/tak/mailman/archives/public/ to 
/etc/apache/httpd.conf
5) I added <Directory 
"/home/tak/mailman/archives/public/">AddDefaultCharset Off </Directory> 
to /etc/httpd.conf
6) I ran apachectl restart
7) I tried to go to http://www.thorie.com/mailman but I got a 404 error
8) I tried to go to http://www.thorie.com/Mailman but I got a 404 error

Anyone have any idea what I am doing wrong? Why doesn't the 
documentation (INSTALL file) not talk about how I'm supposed to access 
the website after following all of these steps?

Thanks!
Tim



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 11 18:56:47 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 09:56:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] name 'nan' is not defined
In-Reply-To: <d0rlq1$g0t$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <PC17422005031109564707965fe9f16b@msapiro>

Stefan Waidele wrote:
>
>we are running some small lists using Mailman 2.15, with the fix 
>described in http://www.list.org/security.html
>
>It has been quite a while since we applied that fix, and things 
>continued to run smoothly.
>
>Everything was fine, until two days ago, delivery stopped. Completely.
>We did not change anything in the list-setup. The mail-accounts are 
>reachable. The outgoing server is working as allways. A mail that is 
>send to the lists pops up in 'mailq' for a moment and dissappears again 
>(-> is delivered to MM).
>
>Where else could I look?
>
>The following lines are logged in .../logs/error for each mail:
>---8<-----------------------------------------
>Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942): Traceback (most recent call last):
>Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942):   File "/home/mailman/bin/qrunner", 
>line 270, in ?
>Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942):      main()
>Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942):   File "/home/mailman/bin/qrunner", 
>line 230, in main
>Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942):      qrunner.run()
>Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942):   File 
>"/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 65, in run
>Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
>Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942):   File 
>"/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 93, in _oneloop
>Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942):      msg, msgdata = 
>self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942):   File 
>"/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 156, in dequeue
>Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942):      data = self._ext_read(dbfile)
>Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942):   File 
>"/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 276, in _ext_read
>Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942):      dict[attr] = eval(sval, 
>{'__builtins__': {}})
>Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942):   File "<string>", line 0, in ?
>Mar 11 08:31:37 2005 qrunner(942): NameError :  name 'nan' is not defined
>---8<-----------------------------------------
>

The references to /home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py in the
above trace do not correlate at all to the 2.1.5 version of this
module.

Also, the references to /home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py are off
by 5 or 6 lines vs. the 2.1.5 module

Could a wrong version have been somehow restored?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tak at thorie.com  Fri Mar 11 19:07:10 2005
From: tak at thorie.com (Timothy Horie)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 10:07:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up mailman website
In-Reply-To: <4231D78D.8010201@thorie.com>
References: <4231D78D.8010201@thorie.com>
Message-ID: <4231DE4E.7080803@thorie.com>

I tried http://www.thorie.com/mailman/
(with the extra slash at the end)
And instead of a 404 error, I got a 403 forbidden error.

The permissions on my /home/tak/mailman/cgi-bin are:
drwxrwsr-x   2 tak mailman 4096 Mar 11 08:32 cgi-bin

Do I need to change that to www-data that apache runs as?
I didn't specify a --with-cgi-gid=??? when I did a ./configure
Should I set this to something in particular?




From Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu  Fri Mar 11 19:40:41 2005
From: Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu (Young, Darren)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 12:40:41 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Queue directory questions
Message-ID: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E2BEDC0@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>

Few questions for any experts on the qfiles directories..

Is there a detailed description anywhere on the qfiles sub-direcotries?
If not...

- What are the files in the qfiles/virgin directory?

- Why would files as .pck.tmp be "stuck" in the out directory? Same for
the in directory.

- What conditions would cause a message to be placed in the "shunt"
directory?


-------------------------------------------------------------
| Darren Young              | http://www.chicagogsb.edu     |
| Senior UNIX Administrator | darren.young at chicagogsb.edu   |
| University of Chicago GSB | darren.young at gsb.uchicago.edu |
-------------------------------------------------------------


From tak at thorie.com  Fri Mar 11 19:53:38 2005
From: tak at thorie.com (Timothy Horie)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 10:53:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up mailman website
In-Reply-To: <4231DE4E.7080803@thorie.com>
References: <4231D78D.8010201@thorie.com> <4231DE4E.7080803@thorie.com>
Message-ID: <4231E932.9080903@thorie.com>

I tried http://www.thorie.com/mailman/admin
And got a 404 error
I think that for some reason, apache or the cgi user id isn't able to 
access /home/tak/mailman/cgi-bin
Do I need to change the permissions for /home/tak or /home/mailman?
I vaguely remember a problem I had before where apache wouldn't let me 
have aliases to any location outside of /var/www because of security 
reasons. I don't really remember what that was about.

Any of you guys use Apache know?

Timothy Horie wrote:

> I tried http://www.thorie.com/mailman/
> (with the extra slash at the end)
> And instead of a 404 error, I got a 403 forbidden error.
>
> The permissions on my /home/tak/mailman/cgi-bin are:
> drwxrwsr-x   2 tak mailman 4096 Mar 11 08:32 cgi-bin
>
> Do I need to change that to www-data that apache runs as?
> I didn't specify a --with-cgi-gid=??? when I did a ./configure
> Should I set this to something in particular?
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/tak%40thorie.com
>
> Security Policy: 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 11 19:54:41 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 10:54:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up mailman website
In-Reply-To: <4231DE4E.7080803@thorie.com>
Message-ID: <PC1742200503111054410781c33f6256@msapiro>

Timothy Horie wrote:

>I tried http://www.thorie.com/mailman/
>(with the extra slash at the end)
>And instead of a 404 error, I got a 403 forbidden error.
>
>The permissions on my /home/tak/mailman/cgi-bin are:
>drwxrwsr-x   2 tak mailman 4096 Mar 11 08:32 cgi-bin
>
>Do I need to change that to www-data that apache runs as?

No.

>I didn't specify a --with-cgi-gid=??? when I did a ./configure
>Should I set this to something in particular?

You shouldn't have to. The default accepted groups are 'www',
'www-data' and 'nobody'.

You probably need

RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$ http://www.thorie.com/mailman/listinfo

in your Apache config.

Can you go to http://www.thorie.com/mailman/listinfo,
http://www.thorie.com/mailman/admin, etc. If so, the above
RedirectMatch should fix things.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 11 20:01:38 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 11:01:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up mailman website
In-Reply-To: <4231E932.9080903@thorie.com>
Message-ID: <PC1742200503111101380125c33f5fc3@msapiro>

Timothy Horie wrote:

>I tried http://www.thorie.com/mailman/admin
>And got a 404 error
>I think that for some reason, apache or the cgi user id isn't able to 
>access /home/tak/mailman/cgi-bin
>Do I need to change the permissions for /home/tak or /home/mailman?

/home/mailman? do you mean /home/tak/mailman?

bin/check_perms should tell you if you have permission issues. The only
other thing is the whether the group that Apache runs as is the one
expected by the wrappers. Per your previous post, this seemed OK.

What does the Apache log say about these errors?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 11 20:07:22 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 11:07:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Localhost Issue
In-Reply-To: <001301c52441$df2c3e20$41920b43@kixsandrept>
Message-ID: <PC1742200503111107220546790b0fb8@msapiro>

Daniel Gutierrez wrote:

>Is my mailing list supposed to have the address mailman-owner at localhost? Please let me know. My Web Site provider couldn't seem to help me, I wasn't very pleased with that.
>

I'm not sure what you're asking?

A <listname>-owner address is the address to reach the owner of a list,
not the posting address.

Clearly an @localhost address will not work for anyone mailing from
another machine.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tak at thorie.com  Fri Mar 11 20:17:30 2005
From: tak at thorie.com (Timothy Horie)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 11:17:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting up mailman website
In-Reply-To: <PC1742200503111101380125c33f5fc3@msapiro>
References: <PC1742200503111101380125c33f5fc3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4231EECA.8020000@thorie.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>What does the Apache log say about these errors?
>
>  
>
I see the bug. Forgot a trailing slash after cgi-bin. It works now. Thanks!



From golson at eicc.edu  Fri Mar 11 20:20:35 2005
From: golson at eicc.edu (Olson, Gary)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 13:20:35 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Another mailman install question
Message-ID: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB8703F3E607@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>

I get the following error after installing when running bin/check_perms:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "bin/check_perms", line 46, in ?
    from Mailman import mm_cfg
ImportError: cannot import name mm_cfg

In looking for the mm_cfg file, I can only find in path/mailman/Mailman
the files mm_cfg.py.dist and mm_cfg.py.dist.in -- there isn't an mm_cfg
or an mm_cfg.py file.  Do I need to install this differently?  How can I
get around this?

I am running this on:

Redhat Linux 3.0ES
Apache version 2.0.46
Mailman 2.1.5
Postfix  2.0.16

Another question....would it be easier to set up and still secure if I
used Sendmail or is Postfix a better choice?

Speak slowly....I'm a newbie.

Thanks.   Gary
 

_______________________________________ 

Gary E. Olson 
Instructional Technologist and Adjunct Instructor 
Eastern Iowa Community College District 

email: golson at eicc.edu


 


From aaron at mutualaid.org  Fri Mar 11 20:29:53 2005
From: aaron at mutualaid.org (aaron)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 11:29:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Missing config.db and config.db.last files
Message-ID: <20050311192957.1C6161E400C@bag.python.org>

Hello.

Somehow, many of our few hundred Mailman lists are missing their config.db
and config.db.last files.

Email traffic still seems to be working on the lists (as there is no content
in the archives), but both the /mailman/admin and /mailman/listinfo URLs are
producing the error show below. I searched the archives for this list to
find something relevant, but was unsuccessful.

The error output below shows our environment specs. We have applied the
Mailman 2.1.5 security patch.

We're completely confused - help!?

Thanks,

Aaron

Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of
this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what
happened. Thanks!
Traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
    main()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 67, in main
    admin_overview()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 234, in
admin_overview
    mlist = MailList.MailList(name, lock=0)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 128, in __init__
    self.Load()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 608, in Load
    raise Errors.MMCorruptListDatabaseError, e
MMCorruptListDatabaseError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/usr/local/mailman/lists/listname/config.db.last'



Python information:

Variable	Value
sys.version	2.4 (#2, Dec 28 2004, 01:42:41) [GCC 2.95.4 20020320
[FreeBSD]]
sys.executable	/usr/local/bin/python
sys.prefix	/usr/local
sys.exec_prefix	/usr/local
sys.path	/usr/local
sys.platform	freebsd4

Environment variables:

Variable	Value
SERVER_SOFTWARE 	Apache/1.3.33 (Unix) PHP/4.3.10 mod_ssl/2.8.22
OpenSSL/0.9.7c-p1
SCRIPT_NAME 	/mailman/admin
SERVER_SIGNATURE 	
Apache/1.3.33 Server at hostname.org Port 80
REQUEST_METHOD 	GET
HTTP_KEEP_ALIVE 	300
SERVER_PROTOCOL 	HTTP/1.1
QUERY_STRING 	
HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET 	ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7
HTTP_USER_AGENT 	Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
rv:1.7.5) Gecko/20041107 Firefox/1.0
HTTP_CONNECTION 	keep-alive
SERVER_NAME 	hostname.org
REMOTE_ADDR 	x.x.x.x
PATH_TRANSLATED 	/usr/local/www/data/
SERVER_PORT 	80
SERVER_ADDR 	x.x.x.x
DOCUMENT_ROOT 	/usr/local/www/data
PYTHONPATH 	/usr/local/mailman
SCRIPT_FILENAME 	/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/admin
SERVER_ADMIN 	webmaster at hostname.org
HTTP_HOST 	hostname.org
REQUEST_URI 	/mailman/admin/
HTTP_ACCEPT
text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=
0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5
GATEWAY_INTERFACE 	CGI/1.1
REMOTE_PORT 	1520
HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE 	en-us,en;q=0.5
HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING 	gzip,deflate
UNIQUE_ID 	QjHtr0AbHE8AAAHIET0
PATH_INFO 	/




From jdennis at redhat.com  Fri Mar 11 20:36:50 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:36:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Another mailman install question
In-Reply-To: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB8703F3E607@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
References: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB8703F3E607@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
Message-ID: <1110569810.27285.58.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Fri, 2005-03-11 at 13:20 -0600, Olson, Gary wrote:
> In looking for the mm_cfg file, I can only find in path/mailman/Mailman
> the files mm_cfg.py.dist and mm_cfg.py.dist.in -- there isn't an mm_cfg
> or an mm_cfg.py file.  Do I need to install this differently?  How can I
> get around this?

Sounds to me like you never ran configure. The three basic steps are:

./configure
make
make install

-OR- since you're on RHEL3 you could just install the mailman rpm and
save yourself from learning the details of how to correctly build and
install mailman :-) If you do install the rpm don't forget to read the
file /usr/share/doc/mailman-*/INSTALL.REDHAT for important final
installation and configuration tips.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 11 20:48:33 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 11:48:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Missing config.db and config.db.last files
In-Reply-To: <20050311192957.1C6161E400C@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC174220050311114833068771409f50@msapiro>

aaron wrote:

>Hello.
>
>Somehow, many of our few hundred Mailman lists are missing their config.db
>and config.db.last files.


In general, this should not be a problem. As of Mailman 2.1.x, the
config.db files were replaced by config.pck files. As long as you have
config.pck files, you don't need and shouldn't have config.db files.


>Email traffic still seems to be working on the lists (as there is no content
>in the archives), but both the /mailman/admin and /mailman/listinfo URLs are
>producing the error show below. I searched the archives for this list to
>find something relevant, but was unsuccessful.
>
>The error output below shows our environment specs. We have applied the
>Mailman 2.1.5 security patch.
>
>We're completely confused - help!?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Aaron
>
>Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5
>
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
>If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of
>this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what
>happened. Thanks!
>Traceback:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
>    main()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 67, in main
>    admin_overview()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py", line 234, in
>admin_overview
>    mlist = MailList.MailList(name, lock=0)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 128, in __init__
>    self.Load()
>  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 608, in Load
>    raise Errors.MMCorruptListDatabaseError, e
>MMCorruptListDatabaseError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
>'/usr/local/mailman/lists/listname/config.db.last'
>

We are attempting to instantiate the list and we try to load the
config.pck file for the list. If it is corrupt or non existent, we try
config.pck.last and then config.db and config.db.last. If none can be
loaded, we issue the error which names the last name we tried.

The problem is that the config.pck and config.pck.last files for this
list are corrupt. The naming of config.db.last is a red herring.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From charles at engnishimura.com  Fri Mar 11 20:51:44 2005
From: charles at engnishimura.com (J Charles Ferrari)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 11:51:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not processing subscription confirmations
Message-ID: <e9f92d301fc6ba6af6bb5a4ed4bbd45f@engnishimura.com>

I'm running Mailman 2.1.2 as installed on the Macintosh Server 10.3.

It is not processing the subscription confirmations. It will send out 
the email requesting confirmation, but does not process the reply. I 
have checked permissions and have verified that they are all set to 
mailman.

Any suggestions?

J Charles Ferrari, Esq.
Eng & Nishimura
1055 West 7th Street, Suite 1780
Los Angeles, CA 90017
(213) 622-2255
Fax (213) 622-5703


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 11 21:00:31 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 12:00:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Inconsistent post approval options
In-Reply-To: <uu0nkewfc.fsf@boost-consulting.com>
Message-ID: <PC1742200503111200310015dcd7f96e@msapiro>

David Abrahams wrote:

>David Abrahams <dave at boost-consulting.com> writes:
>
>> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> writes:
>>
>>> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>>>
>>>>However, both list membership and moderation are handled in the
>>>>Moderate handler which normally comes before Hold in the pipeline, so
>>>>presumably, the poster of this message is a list member and is not
>>>>moderated if this list uses the default pipline.
>>>
>>> Except, as Brad correctly notes, this post looks like it came from a
>>> non-member because the "Add to filters" and Ban options are shown as
>>> opposed to the notation that the poster is a list member. Maybe the
>>> list does use a non-default pipeline 
>>
>> I seriously doubt that.  DongInn, you didn't do anything funky with
>> the Mailman filter pipeline, did you?
>
>He has confirmed that it's the standard pipeline.
>
>>> or maybe I'm missing something in the sequence of how these are
>>> handled.
>>
>> I think we still have a mystery here, then.
>
>Ditto.

Do we? The screen at http://www.luannocracy.com/mailman.html says the
message was held because "Reason: Message body is too big: 94200 bytes
with a limit of 75 KB". Was the message in fact too big? If so, it was
held for a valid reason.

The only issue is whether it should have been held for "moderated
member" instead. If in fact, it was posted by a moderated member, it
should be held for that reason because that test precedes the too big
test.

Likewise if it was posted by a non-member.

But if it was posted by a unmoderated member, it would be held for "too
big" as it was. The fact that the page at the above link seems to
indicate the post is from a non-member is not relevant because it
determines membership status at the time the admindb page was visited,
not at the time of the post. If the poster unsubscribed or changed
e-mail address after posting, the admindb page may not be correct
about membership status.

You could check your mailman subscribe log to determine if the poster
was a member at the time of the post, but this won't give moderation
status. Also it won't show if the member changed his/her e-mail
address.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tak at thorie.com  Fri Mar 11 21:20:35 2005
From: tak at thorie.com (Timothy Horie)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 12:20:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recovering list member e-mails
Message-ID: <4231FD93.2070900@thorie.com>

Hello

Im reinstalling mailman after a hard disk drive crash. I recovered as 
much of the data as I could from the old mailman and I have it on my new 
system as /home/tak/mailman-old

Where can I find the list of e-mails that used to be on my lists? I want 
to mass subscribe them all to start the list again. I looked around and 
saw some .pck files, but nothing that was readable.

Thanks!



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 11 21:22:40 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 12:22:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderate Posts are not listed
In-Reply-To: <422F10CD.9000302@mividdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <PC1742200503111222400812d54a5fd4@msapiro>

Jeremi Bergman wrote:

>OK, this didn't work.  I tried replacing the the request.pck with one 
>that didn't have any mod requests.
>I verified the requests are actually coming from the right server.
>


The cron/checkdbs script obtains the count of pending requests in the
message '%(count)d %(realname)s moderator request(s) waiting' directly
from the NumRequestsPending() method. This value is the number of
entries in the request.pck file minus one for the version pseudo-entry.

Try

 bin/dumpdb lists/<listname>/request.pck

Perhaps the request.pck file was not really "empty".

As far as I can see, this count comes out of the entries in the
request.pck and nowhere else.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 11 21:25:49 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 12:25:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recovering list member e-mails
In-Reply-To: <4231FD93.2070900@thorie.com>
Message-ID: <PC17422005031112254903430682fda8@msapiro>

Timothy Horie wrote:
>
>Im reinstalling mailman after a hard disk drive crash. I recovered as 
>much of the data as I could from the old mailman and I have it on my new 
>system as /home/tak/mailman-old
>
>Where can I find the list of e-mails that used to be on my lists? I want 
>to mass subscribe them all to start the list again. I looked around and 
>saw some .pck files, but nothing that was readable.

The list's config.pck has the list settings, members, member options,
etc. If you have a valid config.pck, just put it in the new
lists/<listname>/ directory and you should be all set.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Mar 11 20:16:14 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 20:16:14 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [continued] No address associated
 with nodename
In-Reply-To: <878y4ul27x.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <4e910912bc79b7ce743fa404009a996d@corpse.net>
	<878y4ul27x.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06200704be579dd85fe0@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:52 PM +0900 2005-03-11, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>  I don't know about Server, but on ordinary Mac OS X I see that error
>  fairly frequently.  As far as I can tell my university's network just
>  takes an awful long time to get the domain lookups back, and Mac OS X
>  times out.  Try again, and I almost always get immediate satisfaction.

	Now that you mention it, I'm reminded that there's a bug in the 
MacOS X resolver.  They set the retry and timeout values way, way too 
low, which causes a lot of errors of this sort.  I don't know exactly 
what they screwed-up in lookupd, but this is a known major bug, and 
I'm afraid that there's not really anything that any normal user can 
do to fix it.

	You can run a local caching nameserver on the machine, and this 
can help.  But only Apple can truly fix lookupd.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 11 21:57:30 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 12:57:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding custom header widely
In-Reply-To: <20050310110236.GB20534@sythos.net>
Message-ID: <PC17422005031112573005784efc6800@msapiro>

Sythos wrote:

>hi all,
>there is a way to add:
>List-Archive: <http://www.mydomain.tld/cgi-bin/mailman/private/namelist>

It's already there if include_rfc2369_headers is Yes and the list has
archives.

>List-Admin: <mailto:listadmin at domain.tld>

RFC 2369 defines this one as List-Owner:. Mailman doesn't include it,
but it would be a very simple hack to CookHeaders.py to add it. I
would suggest, it should look like

List-Owner: >mailto:[listname]-owner at example.com>

>
>PS: why the two header above aren't already/default inserted in mailman
>header?

List-Archive: is inserted. List-Owner: is optional in the RFC and
someone decided not to include it.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 11 22:07:57 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 13:07:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem
In-Reply-To: <423023CD.4000107@nacs.at>
Message-ID: <PC174220050311130757095358f74db2@msapiro>

Andreas Riegebauer wrote:
>
>I hope you can help me. I have a problem with mailman. I don't know why
>but all mails go to /var/lib/mailman/qfiles/shunt an no mail is received
>by any mail list.


See the FAQ
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Article 3.14

Also look in the Mailman 'error' and maybe 'smtp-failure' logs for more
info on the error that's causing messages to be shunted.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Mar 11 22:09:23 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 22:09:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not processing subscription
 confirmations
In-Reply-To: <e9f92d301fc6ba6af6bb5a4ed4bbd45f@engnishimura.com>
References: <e9f92d301fc6ba6af6bb5a4ed4bbd45f@engnishimura.com>
Message-ID: <p0620070abe57b906bec3@[10.0.1.3]>

At 11:51 AM -0800 2005-03-11, J Charles Ferrari wrote:

>  I'm running Mailman 2.1.2 as installed on the Macintosh Server 10.3.

	We'll try to answer what questions we can, but please see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp>.

>  It is not processing the subscription confirmations. It will send out
>  the email requesting confirmation, but does not process the reply. I
>  have checked permissions and have verified that they are all set to
>  mailman.

	You could be having the classic "redirect" problem.  See 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp>.


-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 11 22:28:28 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 13:28:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Queue directory questions
In-Reply-To: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E2BEDC0@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17422005031113282809844efc6994@msapiro>

Young, Darren wrote:

>Few questions for any experts on the qfiles directories..
>
>Is there a detailed description anywhere on the qfiles sub-direcotries?
>If not...


There is some overview im Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py, but probably
much less than you're looking for.

>- What are the files in the qfiles/virgin directory?

These are Mailman generated messages as opposed to list posts. Things
like password reminders, moderation notices and so forth.

>- Why would files as .pck.tmp be "stuck" in the out directory? Same for
>the in directory.

The enqueue() method (see Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py) first creates
the queue file with a .tmp extension and then after writing the
message object and metadata renames it to remove the extension.
There's very little that can go wrong except for a failure in the
rename itself, so I'd guess that's what's happening.

>- What conditions would cause a message to be placed in the "shunt"
>directory?

Pretty much any error in handling the message. The Mailman error log
should say why.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From St.Waidele at LinuxBasics.org  Fri Mar 11 22:56:56 2005
From: St.Waidele at LinuxBasics.org (Stefan Waidele jun.)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 22:56:56 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: name 'nan' is not defined
In-Reply-To: <PC17422005031109564707965fe9f16b@msapiro>
References: <d0rlq1$g0t$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<PC17422005031109564707965fe9f16b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <d0t3ui$b2u$1@sea.gmane.org>

Mark Sapiro schrieb:
> [...]
> The references to /home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py in the
> above trace do not correlate at all to the 2.1.5 version of this
> module.
> 
> Also, the references to /home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py are off
> by 5 or 6 lines vs. the 2.1.5 module
> 
> Could a wrong version have been somehow restored?

No. I did not change anything between working to not-working. So we are 
still in the dark about the reasons.

But I took your observation as a reason to make sure I have 2.1.5 and 
did a new, clean install.

Works.

Thanks for the effort, all of you.

Yours,

Stefan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 11 23:12:57 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:12:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Misinterpretation of Re : prefix
In-Reply-To: <001f01c523f6$20abbca0$4b7133c1@brouchoud9915>
Message-ID: <PC174220050311141257073454ed1b57@msapiro>

Henri Brouchoud wrote:
>
>Except for Outlook which set this subject prefix to "Re : " (note that
>in this case the prefix contains two tokens). Outlook express and
>Netscape put the rigt prefix "Re: ". After some tests, it seems that any
>one-token prefix is accepted ("XXXXX" for instance). 
>And this is my problem. I would like to modify the code to accept at
>least both patterns ("Re : " and "Re: "), but I don't know where the
>decoding of the subject is done. I guess it is a regexp ? 

As you correctly note, the contents of the Subject: is split into
tokens. If the first token is not a command, the next is tried, but
that's as far as it goes.

The code is in Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py around line 134

            if not self.subjcmdretried and args:
                self.subjcmdretried += 1
                cmd = args.pop(0)
                return self.do_command(cmd, args)

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 11 23:16:26 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:16:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not processing subscription confirmations
In-Reply-To: <e9f92d301fc6ba6af6bb5a4ed4bbd45f@engnishimura.com>
Message-ID: <PC174220050311141626076554ed1b57@msapiro>

J Charles Ferrari wrote:

>I'm running Mailman 2.1.2 as installed on the Macintosh Server 10.3.
>
>It is not processing the subscription confirmations. It will send out 
>the email requesting confirmation, but does not process the reply. I 
>have checked permissions and have verified that they are all set to 
>mailman.

Could this be the problem discussed in
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-March/043360.html

If not, does this happen only for e-mail confirmation or does web
confirmation fail too?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 11 23:54:32 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:54:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Weird Issues using Mailman
In-Reply-To: <20050309090306.GI15184@roadwarrior.mcmartin.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1742200503111454320578c5620c22@msapiro>

Kyle McMartin wrote:
>
>I'm administrating a few lists with large numbers of subscribers (>700),

This is not a particularly large number for Mailman.

>and for some reason, have been seeing weird behaviour from mailman.
>
>We're using Debian testing, Mailman 2.1.5, and Postfix 2.1.5.
>
>When attempting to send a message to one of these lists, I get crap
>in the smtp-failure logs:
>
>Mar 09 03:48:22 2005 (32326) delivery to <xxx>@engsoc.org failed with code -1: Server not connected
>
>The message seems to get through to about 20 of the recipients, before
>it barfs like this.
>
>Searching around for this message, I found the suggestion of using 
>MTA='Postfix'

This only affects how aliases are handled for newly created and deleted
lists.

>and explicitly setting the mail server address in 
>/etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py.

This probably only affects whether it works at all for even one
messaage.


>Unfortunately, this does not seem to help and
>the messages persist.
>
>I've tried explicitly setting SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION on a hunch
>but unfortunately that did not help either. :(

It appears that the MTA (your Postfix) is disconnecting you after a
certain number of recipients or transactions or ?

Did you try setting SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION to 1? Did you try
setting SMTP_MAX_RCPTS to some small number?

Have you tried searching the FAQ for 'performance', 'tuning' or
'postfix'?

Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu  Sat Mar 12 00:00:01 2005
From: Darren.Young at ChicagoGSB.edu (Young, Darren)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 17:00:01 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Queue directory questions
Message-ID: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E2BEDC8@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>


> >- Why would files as .pck.tmp be "stuck" in the out 
> directory? Same for 
> >the in directory.
> 
> The enqueue() method (see Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py) first 
> creates the queue file with a .tmp extension and then after 
> writing the message object and metadata renames it to remove 
> the extension.
> There's very little that can go wrong except for a failure in 
> the rename itself, so I'd guess that's what's happening.

Any thoughts on what could be wrong with these? That partition is at 8%,
there are no physical errors reported on the system (at least in syslog)
and I don't see any _obvious_ errors regarding those files in the
Mailman logs. Permission issue perhaps?

The files that are currently in the out queue directory are:

total 136
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2537 Mar  8 19:21
1096625929.267138+30e68745d3df9b175dfbb65404187ddb547a54b4.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2545 Mar  8 19:21
1099307300.893445+40330f934f279aef5a832fd22aff2e2bb411549c.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2533 Mar  8 19:21
1099307464.4255259+63af44aa5f94ebb8e2a00a28ac7529b2cba33581.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2526 Mar  8 19:21
1099308059.071142+bab6a54d9f29fcee67738daa3f007d0c5e1dbb98.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2515 Mar  8 19:21
1099308640.1269419+3013cfa92d41d15310a34845bd7d8ef44308e25b.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman         0 Mar  8 19:21
1099309696.4074111+1dca3ab24da37dc6b6fc65810b63b716f8d45f03.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2526 Mar  8 19:21
1099309947.4948189+e0a13d405da4fe536b0ac734e1a5db050435e666.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2534 Mar  8 19:21
1099309977.105334+b7366057233e0cd4a11e4576244ab037675cb068.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2545 Mar  8 19:21
1101899527.397939+75dfae8bb0115ea490a27a5fe95872480f148b0c.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2533 Mar  8 19:21
1101899739.0381019+127ea95b710012f7bcc36ee3c24e279c6f776cd9.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2526 Mar  8 19:21
1101900358.729337+d370647c334b3b208e21574a06e6d394e0bb9926.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2515 Mar  8 19:21
1101900891.83463+82bb553cf478e35b94657c95df4b416a419db0ec.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2541 Mar  8 19:21
1101901981.7783821+799aec573554891426b618103db78e592d2d198b.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2534 Mar  8 19:21
1101902280.3718829+7c142ed6467b2863c2fbe71755f7deb30ac98983.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2544 Mar  8 19:21
1104577627.147306+d4b069ae8638d32c8999ef58f057e18310df713f.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2532 Mar  8 19:21
1104577890.9627421+76a1dabe86c1be253f681fbc3f4ba5049f6cbdcf.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2525 Mar  8 19:21
1104578515.296947+da9ff984c92ee0f922a4fafb079336edb3f55b06.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2514 Mar  8 19:21
1104579094.104274+edac0221e5139a765108523eca308d437a4d00e3.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2540 Mar  8 19:21
1104580125.003799+55a3a3bc7dd8a59ecad2e77f241c506653009844.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2525 Mar  8 19:21
1104580352.434473+ef6fe5277e27593227f0819c147e8ba76e464cf6.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2533 Mar  8 19:21
1104580372.3478241+247579955094debabf1d4551f107e55153698cbd.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2544 Mar  8 19:21
1107256013.381074+39547954ff43c79a99c6bde173ac6c81ef5704fa.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2544 Mar  8 19:21
1107256122.6485529+72a8fd5b34e85089850550298d8500a54feebca0.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2532 Mar  8 19:21
1107256289.64538+0eb31050a3c0b79f9d908d04d1a91dba0f9049e7.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2525 Mar  8 19:21
1107256839.8323891+694245322f35bbd3d22052c5786edcdfa2d5d175.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2514 Mar  8 19:21
1107257330.4040599+b349fd8d8e2104cdca5cdbe8697c6160db4f84ab.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2540 Mar  8 19:21
1107258469.6605899+b47f37b934e0ddd4f88eff9505c56eb2e4b31344.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2525 Mar  8 19:21
1107258694.6667271+cc244e743ce31f42e90633b17e7a6e79f17cdf67.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2589 Mar  8 19:21
1109675070.257293+360d4150e0501950a85edafeec3430918736ffac.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2589 Mar  8 19:21
1109675190.760036+f51dd4fc0fb4d22725c6c162b46556ccb5621894.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2577 Mar  8 19:21
1109675396.4116931+e49d0942dd7977cfa20a4cc8cc9d373e06ebb6de.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2570 Mar  8 19:21
1109677332.671283+0c2f9f0b43ab0807cf4da00d43da3523f3954aed.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2585 Mar  8 19:21
1109677692.4047019+f851f978c0298f617ca8802d877645afaaa9a47f.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2570 Mar  8 19:21
1109677901.141655+a3cab2e1562b3246cf4b71029f53941d6536c1da.pck.tmp
-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2578 Mar  8 19:21
1109677923.1224999+39b5b179051c8b99da74cf62e0fbf683929a9331.pck.tmp

A dumpdb of the first 5 show this error in them (I've seen messages
referring to this error in the archives):

[root at gsblms out]# for i in `ls | head -5`; do

> dumpdb -p $i
> done
[----- start pickle file -----]
<----- start object 1 ----->
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/bin/dumpdb", line 156, in ?
    msg = main()
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/bin/dumpdb", line 146, in main
    pp.pprint(obj)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/pprint.py", line 110, in pprint
    self.__stream.write(self.pformat(object) + "\n")
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/pprint.py", line 114, in pformat
    self.__format(object, sio, 0, 0, {}, 0)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/pprint.py", line 136, in __format
    rep = self.__repr(object, context, level - 1)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/pprint.py", line 200, in __repr
    self.__depth, level)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/pprint.py", line 287, in _safe_repr
    rep = `object`
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/Mailman/Message.py", line 50, in __repr__
    return self.__str__()
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 116, in
__str__
    return self.as_string(unixfrom=True)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 130, in
as_string
    g.flatten(self, unixfrom=unixfrom)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in
flatten
    self._write(msg)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in
_write
    self._dispatch(msg)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in
_dispatch
    meth(msg)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 202, in
_handle_text
    self._fp.write(payload)
UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
[----- start pickle file -----]
<----- start object 1 ----->
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/bin/dumpdb", line 156, in ?
    msg = main()
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/bin/dumpdb", line 146, in main
    pp.pprint(obj)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/pprint.py", line 110, in pprint
    self.__stream.write(self.pformat(object) + "\n")
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/pprint.py", line 114, in pformat
    self.__format(object, sio, 0, 0, {}, 0)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/pprint.py", line 136, in __format
    rep = self.__repr(object, context, level - 1)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/pprint.py", line 200, in __repr
    self.__depth, level)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/pprint.py", line 287, in _safe_repr
    rep = `object`
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/Mailman/Message.py", line 50, in __repr__
    return self.__str__()
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 116, in
__str__
    return self.as_string(unixfrom=True)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 130, in
as_string
    g.flatten(self, unixfrom=unixfrom)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in
flatten
    self._write(msg)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in
_write
    self._dispatch(msg)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in
_dispatch
    meth(msg)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 202, in
_handle_text
    self._fp.write(payload)
UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
[----- start pickle file -----]
<----- start object 1 ----->
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/bin/dumpdb", line 156, in ?
    msg = main()
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/bin/dumpdb", line 146, in main
    pp.pprint(obj)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/pprint.py", line 110, in pprint
    self.__stream.write(self.pformat(object) + "\n")
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/pprint.py", line 114, in pformat
    self.__format(object, sio, 0, 0, {}, 0)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/pprint.py", line 136, in __format
    rep = self.__repr(object, context, level - 1)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/pprint.py", line 200, in __repr
    self.__depth, level)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/pprint.py", line 287, in _safe_repr
    rep = `object`
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/Mailman/Message.py", line 50, in __repr__
    return self.__str__()
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 116, in
__str__
    return self.as_string(unixfrom=True)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 130, in
as_string
    g.flatten(self, unixfrom=unixfrom)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in
flatten
    self._write(msg)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in
_write
    self._dispatch(msg)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in
_dispatch
    meth(msg)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 202, in
_handle_text
    self._fp.write(payload)
UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
[----- start pickle file -----]
<----- start object 1 ----->
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/bin/dumpdb", line 156, in ?
    msg = main()
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/bin/dumpdb", line 146, in main
    pp.pprint(obj)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/pprint.py", line 110, in pprint
    self.__stream.write(self.pformat(object) + "\n")
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/pprint.py", line 114, in pformat
    self.__format(object, sio, 0, 0, {}, 0)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/pprint.py", line 136, in __format
    rep = self.__repr(object, context, level - 1)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/pprint.py", line 200, in __repr
    self.__depth, level)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/pprint.py", line 287, in _safe_repr
    rep = `object`
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/Mailman/Message.py", line 50, in __repr__
    return self.__str__()
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 116, in
__str__
    return self.as_string(unixfrom=True)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 130, in
as_string
    g.flatten(self, unixfrom=unixfrom)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in
flatten
    self._write(msg)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in
_write
    self._dispatch(msg)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in
_dispatch
    meth(msg)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 202, in
_handle_text
    self._fp.write(payload)
UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)
[----- start pickle file -----]
<----- start object 1 ----->
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/bin/dumpdb", line 156, in ?
    msg = main()
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/bin/dumpdb", line 146, in main
    pp.pprint(obj)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/pprint.py", line 110, in pprint
    self.__stream.write(self.pformat(object) + "\n")
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/pprint.py", line 114, in pformat
    self.__format(object, sio, 0, 0, {}, 0)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/pprint.py", line 136, in __format
    rep = self.__repr(object, context, level - 1)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/pprint.py", line 200, in __repr
    self.__depth, level)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.2/pprint.py", line 287, in _safe_repr
    rep = `object`
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/Mailman/Message.py", line 50, in __repr__
    return self.__str__()
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 116, in
__str__
    return self.as_string(unixfrom=True)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 130, in
as_string
    g.flatten(self, unixfrom=unixfrom)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 102, in
flatten
    self._write(msg)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 130, in
_write
    self._dispatch(msg)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 156, in
_dispatch
    meth(msg)
  File "/home/mailman-2.1/pythonlib/email/Generator.py", line 202, in
_handle_text
    self._fp.write(payload)
UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar 12 00:12:57 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:12:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Queue directory questions
In-Reply-To: <490F3E9EEF01B04598860AAB71777B4E2BEDC8@GSBEX.gsb.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1742200503111512570812c5620d25@msapiro>

Young, Darren wrote:
>
>Any thoughts on what could be wrong with these? That partition is at 8%,
>there are no physical errors reported on the system (at least in syslog)
>and I don't see any _obvious_ errors regarding those files in the
>Mailman logs. Permission issue perhaps?
>
>The files that are currently in the out queue directory are:
>
>total 136
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2537 Mar  8 19:21
>1096625929.267138+30e68745d3df9b175dfbb65404187ddb547a54b4.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2545 Mar  8 19:21
>1099307300.893445+40330f934f279aef5a832fd22aff2e2bb411549c.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2533 Mar  8 19:21
>1099307464.4255259+63af44aa5f94ebb8e2a00a28ac7529b2cba33581.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2526 Mar  8 19:21
>1099308059.071142+bab6a54d9f29fcee67738daa3f007d0c5e1dbb98.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2515 Mar  8 19:21
>1099308640.1269419+3013cfa92d41d15310a34845bd7d8ef44308e25b.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman         0 Mar  8 19:21
>1099309696.4074111+1dca3ab24da37dc6b6fc65810b63b716f8d45f03.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2526 Mar  8 19:21
>1099309947.4948189+e0a13d405da4fe536b0ac734e1a5db050435e666.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2534 Mar  8 19:21
>1099309977.105334+b7366057233e0cd4a11e4576244ab037675cb068.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2545 Mar  8 19:21
>1101899527.397939+75dfae8bb0115ea490a27a5fe95872480f148b0c.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2533 Mar  8 19:21
>1101899739.0381019+127ea95b710012f7bcc36ee3c24e279c6f776cd9.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2526 Mar  8 19:21
>1101900358.729337+d370647c334b3b208e21574a06e6d394e0bb9926.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2515 Mar  8 19:21
>1101900891.83463+82bb553cf478e35b94657c95df4b416a419db0ec.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2541 Mar  8 19:21
>1101901981.7783821+799aec573554891426b618103db78e592d2d198b.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2534 Mar  8 19:21
>1101902280.3718829+7c142ed6467b2863c2fbe71755f7deb30ac98983.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2544 Mar  8 19:21
>1104577627.147306+d4b069ae8638d32c8999ef58f057e18310df713f.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2532 Mar  8 19:21
>1104577890.9627421+76a1dabe86c1be253f681fbc3f4ba5049f6cbdcf.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2525 Mar  8 19:21
>1104578515.296947+da9ff984c92ee0f922a4fafb079336edb3f55b06.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2514 Mar  8 19:21
>1104579094.104274+edac0221e5139a765108523eca308d437a4d00e3.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2540 Mar  8 19:21
>1104580125.003799+55a3a3bc7dd8a59ecad2e77f241c506653009844.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2525 Mar  8 19:21
>1104580352.434473+ef6fe5277e27593227f0819c147e8ba76e464cf6.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2533 Mar  8 19:21
>1104580372.3478241+247579955094debabf1d4551f107e55153698cbd.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2544 Mar  8 19:21
>1107256013.381074+39547954ff43c79a99c6bde173ac6c81ef5704fa.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2544 Mar  8 19:21
>1107256122.6485529+72a8fd5b34e85089850550298d8500a54feebca0.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2532 Mar  8 19:21
>1107256289.64538+0eb31050a3c0b79f9d908d04d1a91dba0f9049e7.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2525 Mar  8 19:21
>1107256839.8323891+694245322f35bbd3d22052c5786edcdfa2d5d175.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2514 Mar  8 19:21
>1107257330.4040599+b349fd8d8e2104cdca5cdbe8697c6160db4f84ab.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2540 Mar  8 19:21
>1107258469.6605899+b47f37b934e0ddd4f88eff9505c56eb2e4b31344.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2525 Mar  8 19:21
>1107258694.6667271+cc244e743ce31f42e90633b17e7a6e79f17cdf67.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2589 Mar  8 19:21
>1109675070.257293+360d4150e0501950a85edafeec3430918736ffac.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2589 Mar  8 19:21
>1109675190.760036+f51dd4fc0fb4d22725c6c162b46556ccb5621894.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2577 Mar  8 19:21
>1109675396.4116931+e49d0942dd7977cfa20a4cc8cc9d373e06ebb6de.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2570 Mar  8 19:21
>1109677332.671283+0c2f9f0b43ab0807cf4da00d43da3523f3954aed.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2585 Mar  8 19:21
>1109677692.4047019+f851f978c0298f617ca8802d877645afaaa9a47f.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2570 Mar  8 19:21
>1109677901.141655+a3cab2e1562b3246cf4b71029f53941d6536c1da.pck.tmp
>-rw-rw----    1 root     mailman      2578 Mar  8 19:21
>1109677923.1224999+39b5b179051c8b99da74cf62e0fbf683929a9331.pck.tmp
>
>A dumpdb of the first 5 show this error in them (I've seen messages
>referring to this error in the archives):
>
>[root at gsblms out]# for i in `ls | head -5`; do
>
>> dumpdb -p $i
>> done
>[----- start pickle file -----]
><----- start object 1 ----->
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/home/mailman-2.1/bin/dumpdb", line 156, in ?
>    msg = main()
<snip>


Those tracebacks are not "in" the files they come from dumpdb when it
encounters the error while attempting to dump the file. I.e. dumpdb
prints

[----- start pickle file -----]
<----- start object 1 ----->

and then hits the exception.

You could try looking at the files with cat. That may tell you
something.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jbeall at heraldic.us  Sat Mar 12 04:44:04 2005
From: jbeall at heraldic.us (Joshua Beall)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 22:44:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting the subscriber list
Message-ID: <d0togt$qvc$1@sea.gmane.org>

Hi All,

I have a very simple question that I'm sure is covered somewhere in the 
docs, but I have yet to find it.  What I want to do is grab the subscribers 
for one of our mailman lists - either through the web interface, or using 
email commands.  The list is hosted on a shared server, and I don't have 
access to the command line scripts, so I need to do it one of those two ways 
(unless I am mistaken about something?).

The reason being that we are moving from one shared server to another, and 
we want to grab all the subscribers from the list hosted on the old server, 
and mass subscribe them to the list hosted on the new server.

Any help?  I know this must be doable since there is even an option to 
control who is able to see the subscriber list.  But I can't figure out how 
exactly to actually *see* the list in an format that will allow me to grab 
all the addesses (not just starting with a particular letter).

Sincerely,
  -Josh 





From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar 12 05:41:06 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 20:41:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting the subscriber list
In-Reply-To: <d0togt$qvc$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <PC1742200503112041060437e2610abb@msapiro>

Joshua Beall wrote:
>
>I have a very simple question that I'm sure is covered somewhere in the 
>docs, but I have yet to find it.  What I want to do is grab the subscribers 
>for one of our mailman lists - either through the web interface, or using 
>email commands.  The list is hosted on a shared server, and I don't have 
>access to the command line scripts, so I need to do it one of those two ways 
>(unless I am mistaken about something?).

Send a blank e-mail with subject "help" (without the quotes) to your
listname-request at ... address to get the form of the "who" command.

Or visit the roster from the listinfo page or directly at something
like http://www.example.com/mailman/roster/<listname>

Both these methods will *not* show members who've opted to be excluded
from these lists.

To get all the members in one list without command line access, you
have to script the web interface. See
http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#throughtheweb for an
example script.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jbeall at heraldic.us  Sat Mar 12 06:02:49 2005
From: jbeall at heraldic.us (Joshua Beall)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 00:02:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Getting the subscriber list
References: <d0togt$qvc$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<PC1742200503112041060437e2610abb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <d0tt4i$3tk$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote in message 
news:PC1742200503112041060437e2610abb at msapiro...
> Send a blank e-mail with subject "help" (without the quotes) to your
> listname-request at ... address to get the form of the "who" command.

who is exactly the command I needed.   Thanks! 





From carfield at carfield.com.hk  Sat Mar 12 08:27:26 2005
From: carfield at carfield.com.hk (Carfield Yim)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 15:27:26 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible to use mailman without apache?
Message-ID: <d0u5jm$i4g$1@sea.gmane.org>

Actually I just want to approve a pending mail, can I do it with command
line?



From lists at viplist.us  Sat Mar 12 10:33:33 2005
From: lists at viplist.us (Lloyd F. Tennison)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 01:33:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] External Archivers - Anyone Have Working Setup
Message-ID: <423246ED.2345.2BCF753@localhost>

Does anyone have any experience with any of the external archivers?  I 
have looked at the scattered information posted and found most of it is over 
four years old or that the links are invalid.  (All references to kanga.nu in the 
FAQ's are no invalid.  The instructions for MHonArc are four years old.) 
Since files and features mentioned in the old posting no longer exist in both 
programs - I am lost.  I would like it to both archive and use it to send the 
digests.  Most of the emails on my lists are html, and since pipermail will 
not handle html at all, the digests come with nothing in them.

I have also tried ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER = 2 (or 3) and all it does is 
delete all html:

i.e.:

(Non-html text here - then at the bottom of the message)

-------------- next part --------------
Skipped content of type text/html

is what is supposed to be escaped.  

If someone has an example setup, would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks.

Lloyd F. Tennison
lloyd_tennison at whoever.com

No trees were harmed in the transmission of this message.
However, a rather large number of electrons were temporarily
inconvenienced.



From john at wa9als.com  Sat Mar 12 14:00:55 2005
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 08:00:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting the subscriber list
References: <PC1742200503112041060437e2610abb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <004501c52703$86fe3900$0100a8c0@wa9als>

> Or visit the roster from the listinfo page or directly at something
> like http://www.example.com/mailman/roster/<listname>

I'm not familiar with /roster/listname.  Why I try that, I get
Error
Directors roster authentication failed.


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.1 - Release Date: 3/9/2005



From dphillips at freightmgmt.com  Fri Mar 11 19:39:03 2005
From: dphillips at freightmgmt.com (Dwayne Phillips)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 10:39:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Question
Message-ID: <20050311184508.389A61E4005@bag.python.org>

Is there anyway to schedule digest emails?

I could use a timer to send emails once a week at a particular time.

Thanks

:::::..::::::...:::::::....::::::::::.....:::::::::........
Dwayne Phillips 
Technologies Director
Freight Management Inc
2900 East La Palma Ave
Anaheim, CA 92806
714.632.1440 ext. 106
714.224.7906 Direct
714.224.7956 Fax
:::::..::::::...:::::::....::::::::::.....:::::::::........






From jbh77 at narasopa.com  Fri Mar 11 16:29:07 2005
From: jbh77 at narasopa.com (Justin B Handley)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 10:29:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I need mailman help
Message-ID: <20050311152912.3B3391E4005@bag.python.org>

Hi There,

 

I am wondering if you know anyone who can provide support / consulting on
mailman.  Specifically, I am having an issue where I am getting two of every
email sent to a list, and another user is getting two of every email sent by
one person.

 

Where can I find help on this?

 

Justin

 



From jocke at nomell.se  Fri Mar 11 15:04:45 2005
From: jocke at nomell.se (Joakim Nomell)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:04:45 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Searchable
In-Reply-To: <20050311133114.GA2874@tifaware.com>
References: <7af451c853cbf35a1db3119f6ffbfeab@mac.com>
	<p06200791be548099ec56@[10.0.1.3]>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0503110903230.16005@jajja.nomell.se>
	<20050311133114.GA2874@tifaware.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503111503330.16696@jajja.nomell.se>

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005, George Theall wrote:

>> But when trying to apply the patch I get the following (Redhat 9):
>> [root at jajja mailman-2.1.5]# patch -p1 <../htdig-2.1.5-0.1.patch
>> <??H];P           ?kB?
>
> That doesn't look like a patch file, at least not an uncompressed one.
> What does "file ../htdig-2.1.5-0.1.patch" report?

It says:
[root at jajja src]# file ./htdig-2.1.5-0.1.patch
./htdig-2.1.5-0.1.patch: gzip compressed data, was "htdig-2.1.5-0.1.patch", from Unix

But I gunzipped the gz-file that I downloaded..

-- 
___________________________________________________________________
Joakim Nomell     Phn: +46 70 771 31 00      MSN : joakim at nomell.nu
Unix engineer     Fax: +46 70 711 31 00      Web : http://nomell.se
-------------------------------------------------------------------

* When seeking love gives nothing, have found love gives all *


From jocke at nomell.se  Fri Mar 11 15:06:19 2005
From: jocke at nomell.se (Joakim Nomell)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:06:19 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Searchable
In-Reply-To: <1110531539@ksbase>
References: <1110531539@ksbase>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503111504570.16696@jajja.nomell.se>

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005, Not Here wrote:

> im> mailman-2.1.5]# patch -p1 <../htdig-2.1.5-0.1.patch <^1?H];P
>
> Wrong syntax. You need a space after "<".

Same result with
[root at jajja mailman-2.1.5]# patch -p1 < ../htdig-2.1.5-0.1.patch

-- 
___________________________________________________________________
Joakim Nomell     Phn: +46 70 771 31 00      MSN : joakim at nomell.nu
Unix engineer     Fax: +46 70 711 31 00      Web : http://nomell.se
-------------------------------------------------------------------

* When seeking love gives nothing, have found love gives all *


From jocke at nomell.se  Sat Mar 12 10:40:27 2005
From: jocke at nomell.se (Joakim Nomell)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 10:40:27 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTDIG problems
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503121033570.17513@jajja.nomell.se>

Hi all. Now I have applied the patch for mailman 1.0.5 and htdig is 
activated. My mm_cfg.py now includes:
USE_HTDIG = 1
HTDIG_FILES_URL = '/htdig'
HTDIG_HTSEARCH_PATH = '/usr/bin/htsearch'
HTDIG_RUNDIG_PATH = '/usr/bin/rundig'
And any list which not yet has htdig activated gets an listname.conf 
created when the first message comes to the list after I applied the 
patch.

My cron event also runs every night and creates the db's in 
/prod/mailman/archive/private/listname/htdig/ and I also get a search box 
on every privat archive. But when filling in the search field and press 
search, I only get an empty screen as result. Whats wrong? Hope you can 
help =)

-- 
___________________________________________________________________
Joakim Nomell     Phn: +46 70 771 31 00      MSN : joakim at nomell.nu
Unix engineer     Fax: +46 70 711 31 00      Web : http://nomell.se
-------------------------------------------------------------------

* When seeking love gives nothing, have found love gives all *


From roach at corpse.net  Fri Mar 11 17:29:01 2005
From: roach at corpse.net (roach)
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 08:29:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [continued] No address associated with nodename
In-Reply-To: <878y4ul27x.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <4e910912bc79b7ce743fa404009a996d@corpse.net>
	<878y4ul27x.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <24773a94367fb9b41edbebc87d38b837@corpse.net>

I'm seeing for every delivery attempt. Nothing is getting through at 
all. I've tried running DNS locally too. Now I'm in the process of 
trying to "re-install" Mailman as it came from the OS X Server discs. 
Also posted this issue on the Apple boards. Very strange.

On Mar 11, 2005, at 5:52 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>>>>>> "roach" == roach  <roach at corpse.net> writes:
>
>     roach> Did this issue ever get solved? I'm getting and identical
>     roach> error, but just using the standard OS X Server setup. It
>     roach> was working fine for a bit, but now has stopped.
>
> I don't know about Server, but on ordinary Mac OS X I see that error
> fairly frequently.  As far as I can tell my university's network just
> takes an awful long time to get the domain lookups back, and Mac OS X
> times out.  Try again, and I almost always get immediate satisfaction.
>
> Of course that's not satisfactory for a daemon process.
>
> -- 
> Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     
> http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
> University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 
> 305-8573 JAPAN
>                Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
>               ask what your business can "do for" free software.
>



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Mar 12 14:15:09 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:15:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] External Archivers - Anyone Have
 Working Setup
In-Reply-To: <423246ED.2345.2BCF753@localhost>
References: <423246ED.2345.2BCF753@localhost>
Message-ID: <p06200712be589ad1aa96@[10.0.1.3]>

At 1:33 AM -0800 2005-03-12, Lloyd F. Tennison wrote:

>            Most of the emails on my lists are html, and since pipermail
>  will not handle html at all, the digests come with nothing in them.

	Incorrect.  Pipermail handles HTML fine.  It doesn't handle MIME very well.

	You may think that MIME == HTML, but that is not a valid 
assumption.  There are lots of things you can do with MIME that are 
totally unrelated to HTML, it just happens that one of the most 
common uses of MIME is as a transmission method for HTML.

	Of course, none of this solves your problem with pipermail.  I 
just wanted to clear up a common misconception.


	I can say that, since I've joined the project less than a year 
ago, I've heard from a number of people who use mhonarc or namazu as 
alternative archivers, and so far as I've been able to determine, 
they've all been using pretty much the same set of instructions as 
you have looked at.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Mar 12 14:16:21 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:16:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible to use mailman without
 apache?
In-Reply-To: <d0u5jm$i4g$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <d0u5jm$i4g$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <p06200713be589beded1b@[10.0.1.3]>

At 3:27 PM +0800 2005-03-12, Carfield Yim wrote:

>  Actually I just want to approve a pending mail, can I do it with command
>  line?

	Yes.  The administrators of very large scale Mailman mailing 
lists are effectively required to do everything via the command line, 
because the web interface becomes virtually useless for them.

	However, I do not know the exact sequence of commands that would 
be required.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From theall at tifaware.com  Sat Mar 12 15:45:00 2005
From: theall at tifaware.com (George Theall)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 09:45:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTDIG problems
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503121033570.17513@jajja.nomell.se>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503121033570.17513@jajja.nomell.se>
Message-ID: <20050312144457.GA10813@tifaware.com>

On Sat, Mar 12, 2005 at 10:40:27AM +0100, Joakim Nomell wrote:

> Hi all. Now I have applied the patch for mailman 1.0.5 and htdig is 
> activated. 

Are you sure about that version number???

Also, this means we've solved the gzip problem, right? 

> on every privat archive. But when filling in the search field and press 
> search, I only get an empty screen as result. 

Do the webserver logs show anything about the problem?

You can test whether htsearch itself is working by running from a
commandline the following:

  /usr/bin/htsearch -c $prefix/archives/htdig/<listname>.conf

Give it something to search for and answer "short" for the format value. 

George
-- 
theall at tifaware.com
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From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar 12 16:15:55 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 07:15:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible to use mailman without apache?
In-Reply-To: <d0u5jm$i4g$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <PC1742200503120715550000ff74e557@msapiro>

Carfield Yim wrote:

>Actually I just want to approve a pending mail, can I do it with command
>line?

I'm not sure about command line, but you can do it by e-mail. If
admin_immed_notify is set to Yes, the notification message that is
sent contains a message/rfc822 part similar to the following:

--------------------------------------------------
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: confirm 750c69674069227167abb400c93d75b58234d6f1
Sender: <listname>-request at example.com
From: <listname>-request at example.com

If you reply to this message, keeping the Subject: header intact,
Mailman will discard the held message.  Do this if the message is
spam.  If you reply to this message and include an Approved: header
with the list password in it, the message will be approved for posting
to the list.  The Approved: header can also appear in the first line
of the body of the reply.
---------------------------------------------------

Thus, you can actually send any message to the <listname>-request
address with the confirm <token> command in the subject with an

Approved: <password>

header or first body line to approve the message or without Approved:
to discard it.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar 12 16:22:10 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 07:22:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting the subscriber list
In-Reply-To: <004501c52703$86fe3900$0100a8c0@wa9als>
Message-ID: <PC1742200503120722100859ff74e885@msapiro>

John Fleming wrote:

>> Or visit the roster from the listinfo page or directly at something
>> like http://www.example.com/mailman/roster/<listname>
>
>I'm not familiar with /roster/listname.  Why I try that, I get
>Error
>Directors roster authentication failed.

Your list roster is restricted to either list members or to list
administrators. You have to have already logged in as an authorized
viewer to view the roster in this way. If you're not, it doesn't
attempt to validate you by asking for user/password, it just gives the
above message.

If you aren't already logged in, it's probably easiest to go to the
listinfo page and get the roster from there.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar 12 16:37:25 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 07:37:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Question
In-Reply-To: <20050311184508.389A61E4005@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC1742200503120737250093ba636436@msapiro>

Dwayne Phillips wrote:

>Is there anyway to schedule digest emails?
>
>I could use a timer to send emails once a week at a particular time.

You can adjust the crontab entry to run senddigests on whatever
schedule you want (default is daily at noon).

Digests will still be sent when the accumulated size reaches
digest_size_threshhold.

If you're asking regarding an individual list rather than the site, you
would have to set digest_send_periodic to No and then send digests
through some other process. You can't use cron/senddigests directly
because it only sends digests for lists that have digest_send_periodic
set to Yes even if the list is named on the command line, but you
could look at the code to see how a digest is sent and make a simple
script to do the same thing or use bin/withlist.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From john at wa9als.com  Sat Mar 12 18:09:56 2005
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 12:09:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting the subscriber list
References: <PC1742200503120722100859ff74e885@msapiro>
Message-ID: <001701c52726$52bd37e0$0100a8c0@wa9als>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
To: "John Fleming" <john at wa9als.com>; <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Getting the subscriber list


> John Fleming wrote:
>
>>> Or visit the roster from the listinfo page or directly at something
>>> like http://www.example.com/mailman/roster/<listname>
>>
>>I'm not familiar with /roster/listname.  Why I try that, I get
>>Error
>>Directors roster authentication failed.
>
> Your list roster is restricted to either list members or to list
> administrators. You have to have already logged in as an authorized
> viewer to view the roster in this way. If you're not, it doesn't
> attempt to validate you by asking for user/password, it just gives the
> above message.

I don't want to beat this to death as there are other ways.  However, I have 
logged in as the site admin (and list admin) and then tried the 
/roster/listname URL to no avail - still says not authenticated.  I do get 
the subscribers OK with who or from the listinfo page.  I won't bother the 
list with any more traffic on this, but if you have anything else to add, 
please..
Thanks!



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.1 - Release Date: 3/9/2005



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Mar 13 05:21:39 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 20:21:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting the subscriber list
In-Reply-To: <001701c52726$52bd37e0$0100a8c0@wa9als>
Message-ID: <PC1742200503122021390171d9ce7552@msapiro>

John Fleming wrote:
>
>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> John Fleming wrote:
>>
>>>> Or visit the roster from the listinfo page or directly at something
>>>> like http://www.example.com/mailman/roster/<listname>
>>>
>>>I'm not familiar with /roster/listname.  Why I try that, I get
>>>Error
>>>Directors roster authentication failed.
>>
>> Your list roster is restricted to either list members or to list
>> administrators. You have to have already logged in as an authorized
>> viewer to view the roster in this way. If you're not, it doesn't
>> attempt to validate you by asking for user/password, it just gives the
>> above message.
>
>I don't want to beat this to death as there are other ways.  However, I have 
>logged in as the site admin (and list admin) and then tried the 
>/roster/listname URL to no avail - still says not authenticated.  I do get 
>the subscribers OK with who or from the listinfo page.

When you go to the roster from the listinfo/<listname> page, it goes to
the roster/<listname> URL. If you then go somewhere else and then back
to that URL, I'd expect it to work. Also, if I go to a list admin
page, logging in along the way, and then just change "admin" in the
address bar to "roster" and go there, it works all the time.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Mar 13 05:46:18 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 20:46:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I need mailman help
In-Reply-To: <20050311152912.3B3391E4005@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC17422005031220461805009faee8e6@msapiro>

Justin B Handley wrote:
>
>I am wondering if you know anyone who can provide support / consulting on
>mailman.  Specifically, I am having an issue where I am getting two of every
>email sent to a list, and another user is getting two of every email sent by
>one person.
>
> 
>
>Where can I find help on this?

Comparing the chain of Received: headers in the two received copies of
a message will give good clues as to where the duplication is
occurring.

Note that if as a user you don't have your "Avoid duplicate copies of
messages?" option set to yes, you will often receive duplicates of
replies in a thread to which you have posted, one from the replier and
one from the list.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Mar 13 05:53:23 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 20:53:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Searchable
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503111503330.16696@jajja.nomell.se>
Message-ID: <PC1742200503122053230203557a9622@msapiro>

Joakim Nomell wrote:

>On Fri, 11 Mar 2005, George Theall wrote:
>
>>> But when trying to apply the patch I get the following (Redhat 9):
>>> [root at jajja mailman-2.1.5]# patch -p1 <../htdig-2.1.5-0.1.patch
>>> <??H];P           ?kB?
>>
>> That doesn't look like a patch file, at least not an uncompressed one.
>> What does "file ../htdig-2.1.5-0.1.patch" report?
>
>It says:
>[root at jajja src]# file ./htdig-2.1.5-0.1.patch
>./htdig-2.1.5-0.1.patch: gzip compressed data, was "htdig-2.1.5-0.1.patch", from Unix
>
>But I gunzipped the gz-file that I downloaded..

But file says what's in the file ../htdig-2.1.5-0.1.patch is gzip
compressed data from "htdig-2.1.5-0.1.patch".

Either something went wrong with the gunzip or the original file was
gzipped twice.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From john at wa9als.com  Sun Mar 13 14:14:36 2005
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 08:14:36 -0500
Subject: SOLVED but strange? Re: [Mailman-Users] Getting the subscriber list
References: <PC1742200503122021390171d9ce7552@msapiro>
Message-ID: <002f01c527ce$9b16dc00$0100a8c0@wa9als>


> When you go to the roster from the listinfo/<listname> page, it goes to
> the roster/<listname> URL. If you then go somewhere else and then back
> to that URL, I'd expect it to work. Also, if I go to a list admin
> page, logging in along the way, and then just change "admin" in the
> address bar to "roster" and go there, it works all the time.

If I go to a list admin page and login, and then simply replace admin with 
roster, it DOESN'T work.  But if I first visit one of the admin pagesafter 
logging in, and then replace admin with roster, it works.

Thanks!



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.2 - Release Date: 3/11/2005



From ndl at ravenbrook.com  Sun Mar 13 12:40:06 2005
From: ndl at ravenbrook.com (Nick Levine)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 11:40:06 GMT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] investigating attack-like "mail failures"
Message-ID: <200503131140.j2DBe6cY031487@gadwall.ravenbrook.com>

Hi.

I've noticed a number of attack-like "mail failures". The rate at
which we see them comes and goes at different times of the day; when
they're active they pass through at the rate of 1 or 2 per minute.

Here's an example, for the list alu-board-only at alu.org (we've seen
this for other alu.org lists too).

    /var/log/maillog:
    Mar 13 02:56:28 bibop postfix/smtpd[17886]: connect from localhost[127.0.0.1]
    Mar 13 02:56:28 bibop postfix/smtpd[17886]: 12C1C12CCEB: client=localhost[127.0.0.1]
    Mar 13 02:56:28 bibop postfix/smtpd[17886]: 12C1C12CCEB: reject: RCPT from localhost[127.0.0.1]: 450 <beverley at alu.org>: User unknown in local recipient table; from=<alu-board-only-bounces at alu.org> to=<beverley at alu.org> proto=ESMTP helo=<bibop.alu.org>
    Mar 13 02:56:29 bibop postfix/smtpd[17886]: disconnect from localhost[127.0.0.1]

    /usr/local/mailman/smtp-failure:
    Mar 13 02:56:29 2005 (2547) All recipients refused: {'beverley at alu.org': (450, '<beverley at alu.org>: User unknown in local recipient table')}, msgid: <mailman.6.1110619218.2549.alu-board-only at alu.org>
    Mar 13 02:56:29 2005 (2547) delivery to beverley at alu.org failed with code 450: <beverley at alu.org>: User unknown in local recipient table

    /usr/local/mailman/smtp:
    Mar 13 02:56:29 2005 (2547) <mailman.6.1110619218.2549.alu-board-only at alu.org> smtp for 1 recips, completed in 1.027 seconds

    /usr/local/mailman/post:
    Mar 13 02:56:29 2005 (2547) post to alu-board-only from alu-board-only-bounces at alu.org, size=1066, message-id=<mailman.6.1110619218.2549.alu-board-only at alu.org>, 1 failures

What I'd like to know is where (and from apparantly who) this message
originated, but I can't figure out from these logs what's going on.

It looks like an attempt from the Outgoing qrunner to send mail to
alu-board-only (hence the alu-board-only-bounces return address), with
beverley at alu.org as one of the addressees, which doesn't make sense.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

- nick


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Mar 13 15:40:17 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 15:40:17 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] investigating attack-like "mail
 failures"
In-Reply-To: <200503131140.j2DBe6cY031487@gadwall.ravenbrook.com>
References: <200503131140.j2DBe6cY031487@gadwall.ravenbrook.com>
Message-ID: <p0620072abe5a00a8897e@[10.0.1.3]>

At 11:40 AM +0000 2005-03-13, Nick Levine wrote:

>      /var/log/maillog:
>      Mar 13 02:56:28 bibop postfix/smtpd[17886]: connect from 
>localhost[127.0.0.1]
>      Mar 13 02:56:28 bibop postfix/smtpd[17886]: 12C1C12CCEB: 
>client=localhost[127.0.0.1]
>      Mar 13 02:56:28 bibop postfix/smtpd[17886]: 12C1C12CCEB: 
>reject: RCPT from localhost[127.0.0.1]: 450 <beverley at alu.org>: User 
>unknown in local recipient table; 
>from=<alu-board-only-bounces at alu.org> to=<beverley at alu.org> 
>proto=ESMTP helo=<bibop.alu.org>
>      Mar 13 02:56:29 bibop postfix/smtpd[17886]: disconnect from 
>localhost[127.0.0.1]
>
>      /usr/local/mailman/smtp-failure:
>      Mar 13 02:56:29 2005 (2547) All recipients refused: 
>{'beverley at alu.org': (450, '<beverley at alu.org>: User unknown in 
>local recipient table')}, msgid: 
><mailman.6.1110619218.2549.alu-board-only at alu.org>
>      Mar 13 02:56:29 2005 (2547) delivery to beverley at alu.org failed 
>with code 450: <beverley at alu.org>: User unknown in local recipient 
>table
>
>      /usr/local/mailman/smtp:
>      Mar 13 02:56:29 2005 (2547) 
><mailman.6.1110619218.2549.alu-board-only at alu.org> smtp for 1 
>recips, completed in 1.027 seconds
>
>      /usr/local/mailman/post:
>      Mar 13 02:56:29 2005 (2547) post to alu-board-only from 
>alu-board-only-bounces at alu.org, size=1066, 
>message-id=<mailman.6.1110619218.2549.alu-board-only at alu.org>, 1 
>failures
>
>  What I'd like to know is where (and from apparantly who) this message
>  originated, but I can't figure out from these logs what's going on.

	It looks to me like someone sent an e-mail message from 
beverley at alu.org to alu-board-only at alu.org, but there was an error 
(maybe this list is set up to reject messages from non-subscribers?), 
so Mailman tried to send an error back to beverley at alu.org.  What 
you're seeing here is the bounce of that error message.

	If you really want to understand what happened, you have to go 
back an additional step -- you've got to find where someone claimed 
to be beverley at alu.org and sent the message to alu-board-only at alu.org.

>  It looks like an attempt from the Outgoing qrunner to send mail to
>  alu-board-only (hence the alu-board-only-bounces return address), with
>  beverley at alu.org as one of the addressees, which doesn't make sense.

	Actually, it's the other way around.  See above.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Mar 13 17:06:28 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 08:06:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] investigating attack-like "mailfailures"
In-Reply-To: <p0620072abe5a00a8897e@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <PC1743200503130806280140b5735d28@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 11:40 AM +0000 2005-03-13, Nick Levine wrote:
>
>>      /var/log/maillog:
>>      Mar 13 02:56:28 bibop postfix/smtpd[17886]: connect from 
>>localhost[127.0.0.1]
>>      Mar 13 02:56:28 bibop postfix/smtpd[17886]: 12C1C12CCEB: 
>>client=localhost[127.0.0.1]
>>      Mar 13 02:56:28 bibop postfix/smtpd[17886]: 12C1C12CCEB: 
>>reject: RCPT from localhost[127.0.0.1]: 450 <beverley at alu.org>: User 
>>unknown in local recipient table; 
>>from=<alu-board-only-bounces at alu.org> to=<beverley at alu.org> 
>>proto=ESMTP helo=<bibop.alu.org>
>>      Mar 13 02:56:29 bibop postfix/smtpd[17886]: disconnect from 
>>localhost[127.0.0.1]
>>
>>      /usr/local/mailman/smtp-failure:
>>      Mar 13 02:56:29 2005 (2547) All recipients refused: 
>>{'beverley at alu.org': (450, '<beverley at alu.org>: User unknown in 
>>local recipient table')}, msgid: 
>><mailman.6.1110619218.2549.alu-board-only at alu.org>
>>      Mar 13 02:56:29 2005 (2547) delivery to beverley at alu.org failed 
>>with code 450: <beverley at alu.org>: User unknown in local recipient 
>>table
>>
>>      /usr/local/mailman/smtp:
>>      Mar 13 02:56:29 2005 (2547) 
>><mailman.6.1110619218.2549.alu-board-only at alu.org> smtp for 1 
>>recips, completed in 1.027 seconds
>>
>>      /usr/local/mailman/post:
>>      Mar 13 02:56:29 2005 (2547) post to alu-board-only from 
>>alu-board-only-bounces at alu.org, size=1066, 
>>message-id=<mailman.6.1110619218.2549.alu-board-only at alu.org>, 1 
>>failures
>>
>>  What I'd like to know is where (and from apparantly who) this message
>>  originated, but I can't figure out from these logs what's going on.
>
>	It looks to me like someone sent an e-mail message from 
>beverley at alu.org to alu-board-only at alu.org, but there was an error 
>(maybe this list is set up to reject messages from non-subscribers?), 
>so Mailman tried to send an error back to beverley at alu.org.  What 
>you're seeing here is the bounce of that error message.
>

I agree with Brad that this is most likely, and if it is the case that
non-member posts are rejected, you could temporarily change that to
"hold" and then you can see the headers of the held message which will
give more info.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Mar 13 19:00:24 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:00:24 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] investigating attack-like
 "mailfailures"
In-Reply-To: <200503131717.j2DHHvvr031814@gadwall.ravenbrook.com>
References: <PC1743200503130806280140b5735d28@msapiro>
	<200503131717.j2DHHvvr031814@gadwall.ravenbrook.com>
Message-ID: <p0620072fbe5a2f9889c4@[10.0.1.3]>

At 5:17 PM +0000 2005-03-13, Nick Levine wrote:

>  Because the sender was spoofed as coming from alu.org, the "you are on
>  hold" message went to bibop's mail server, which happens to return the
>  code 450 (= temporary failure?) for unknown users.

	That's a little unusual, but does happen sometimes.

>                                                     It looks like
>  mailman keeps trying to resend a 450 bounce, every 15(?) minutes.

	It's not Mailman trying to resend the message.  It's your MTA, to 
which Mailman handed over the message.

>  Bounces from other mail servers tend to carry the 550 code (=
>  permanent failure?) and mailman gives up.

	Again, it's not Mailman giving up.  It's your MTA.

>  Uhm, will it keep on doing this forever? It's tried sending to
>  beverley over 130 times since yesterday morning.

	Your MTA will continue to try to re-send that message for the 
period of time that it is configured to do so.  With the information 
you have available to you, you should be able to figure out which of 
the messages in the mail queue of your MTA is the one you want to 
delete, and then you can use the tools appropriate to your MTA to 
delete it.


	However, the MTA-specific aspects of this process are something 
you should pursue on a mailing list or newsgroup that is appropriate 
to your MTA (e.g., postfix-users), and not here.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From kburrell3 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 14 02:51:17 2005
From: kburrell3 at gmail.com (Knowles Burrell)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 20:51:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail doesnt deleiver
Message-ID: <e7db58dd050313175123aeeaf8@mail.gmail.com>

I recently got a 1and1 server which came with mailman mailing list
software. I can set up mailing lists just fine, I receive the
confirmation emails and everything. I can ever get notices about my
user name and passwords. However if I try to send an email to the list
it just goes to lala land. There is no bounced email returned to me
and it never shows up to any of the other members or the archives. I
am not sure where to start or what information may be needed in order
to get this corrected so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
kb3


From mike.edwards at edwardsbrewing.com  Mon Mar 14 03:21:59 2005
From: mike.edwards at edwardsbrewing.com (Mike Edwards)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 20:21:59 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] noobie question
Message-ID: <4234F547.3040403@edwardsbrewing.com>

I'm having trouble getting mailman and postfix to work together--despite 
reading all the FAQs and other docs I can find.  I have successfully set 
up a virtual postfix domain, but can't get mailman to answer mail 
properly (it sends out fine).  Do I need to set up virtual_mailboxes for 
every mailman list?  I wouldn't think so since the mailman aliases file 
should handle that by passing mail thru to commands in 
mailman/data/aliases.  The virtual domain in question on this box is 
only used for mailman anyway, so it should be straightforward, right?

Thanks in advance,
Mike

-- 
Mike Edwards, Brewmaster
Edwards Brewing Company
www.edwardsbrewing.com


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 14 03:40:37 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 18:40:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail doesnt deleiver
In-Reply-To: <e7db58dd050313175123aeeaf8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17432005031318403707032135aa64@msapiro>

Knowles Burrell wrote:

>I recently got a 1and1 server which came with mailman mailing list
>software. I can set up mailing lists just fine, I receive the
>confirmation emails and everything. I can ever get notices about my
>user name and passwords. However if I try to send an email to the list
>it just goes to lala land. There is no bounced email returned to me
>and it never shows up to any of the other members or the archives. I
>am not sure where to start or what information may be needed in order
>to get this corrected so any help would be appreciated.

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Article 3.14

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lists at user-land.org  Mon Mar 14 04:38:34 2005
From: lists at user-land.org (Philippe Landau)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 04:38:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how-to configure approval of non-member posts
	message
Message-ID: <4235073A.7090803@user-land.org>

hello, thank you for mailman, great software :-)

i see there are efforts underway to allow automatic
rejection of non-member postings.

i would like to configure the automatic message
sent in response to non-member posts,
where i would like to include a link to the subscription page.
in fact i think the default text could be changed in this way.

i'm sorry if this was discussed before, i didn't find it in
the archives.

kind regards     philippe



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 14 05:19:32 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 20:19:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how-to configure approval of non-member
	postsmessage
In-Reply-To: <4235073A.7090803@user-land.org>
Message-ID: <PC1743200503132019320000be9e9100@msapiro>

Philippe Landau wrote:
>
>i see there are efforts underway to allow automatic
>rejection of non-member postings.


More than efforts - that's the way current versions work. You specify
whether a non-member post should be Accepted, Held, Rejected or
Discarded.

>i would like to configure the automatic message
>sent in response to non-member posts,
>where i would like to include a link to the subscription page.
>in fact i think the default text could be changed in this way.

Currently, the only way to do this is to Hold non-member posts. If the
post is discarded, no message is sent. If the post is rejected, the
reject message is hard coded (but possibly translated) in
Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py.

If the non-member post is held, the message sent to the user is derived
from the postheld.txt template. See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp
for information on creating list specific, domain specific or sitewide
edited templates.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jocke at nomell.se  Sun Mar 13 17:55:16 2005
From: jocke at nomell.se (Joakim Nomell)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 17:55:16 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTDIG problems
In-Reply-To: <20050312144457.GA10813@tifaware.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503121033570.17513@jajja.nomell.se>
	<20050312144457.GA10813@tifaware.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503131749550.7643@jajja.nomell.se>

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005, George Theall wrote:

>> Hi all. Now I have applied the patch for mailman 1.0.5 and htdig is
>> activated.
>
> Are you sure about that version number???

Sorry, 2.1.5 :$

> Also, this means we've solved the gzip problem, right?

Yes. it was named .gz when I downloaded it. After gunzip it was named 
htdig-2.1.5-0.1.patch but file still said that it was a compressed archive 
so I renamed it to gz again and ran gunzip. After that it worked.

>> on every privat archive. But when filling in the search field and press
>> search, I only get an empty screen as result.
>
> Do the webserver logs show anything about the problem?
>
> You can test whether htsearch itself is working by running from a
> commandline the following:
>
>  /usr/bin/htsearch -c $prefix/archives/htdig/<listname>.conf
>
> Give it something to search for and answer "short" for the format value.

Nothing in the webserverlog but the comandline test gave no output at all:

[root at jajja mailman-2.1.5]# /usr/bin/htsearch -c 
/prod/mailman/archives/private/si
s/htdig/sis.conf
Enter value for words: ledarhund
Enter value for format: short
Content-type: text/html

[root at jajja mailman-2.1.5]#

The htdig cron event has scanned the archive and all files are there:
[root at jajja htdig]# ls -l
total 122064
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman   5554176 Mar 13 13:46 db.docdb
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman   1351680 Mar 13 13:46 db.docs.index
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman  84451328 Mar 13 13:46 db.excerpts
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman  35179520 Mar 13 13:49 db.words.db
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman     16384 Mar 13 13:46 
db.words.db_weakcmpr
-rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman         0 Mar 13 13:49 rundig_last_run
-rw-rw-rw-    1 mailman  mailman      3805 Mar 12 11:14 sis.conf

-- 
___________________________________________________________________
Joakim Nomell     Phn: +46 70 771 31 00      MSN : joakim at nomell.nu
Unix engineer     Fax: +46 70 711 31 00      Web : http://nomell.se
-------------------------------------------------------------------

* When seeking love gives nothing, have found love gives all *


From ndl at ravenbrook.com  Sun Mar 13 18:17:57 2005
From: ndl at ravenbrook.com (Nick Levine)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 17:17:57 GMT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] investigating attack-like "mailfailures"
In-Reply-To: <PC1743200503130806280140b5735d28@msapiro> (message from Mark
	Sapiro on Sun, 13 Mar 2005 08:06:28 -0800)
References: <PC1743200503130806280140b5735d28@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200503131717.j2DHHvvr031814@gadwall.ravenbrook.com>

Mark / Brad,

Many thanks for your mails.

I have tracked down (most of) what's going on.

    vette:48:Mar 12 01:20:18 2005 (2549) alu-board-only post from
    beverley at alu.org held,
    message-id=<27673729.1097937559808.JavaMail.root at dezilu.com> : Post by
    non-member to a members-only list

Because the sender was spoofed as coming from alu.org, the "you are on
hold" message went to bibop's mail server, which happens to return the
code 450 (= temporary failure?) for unknown users. It looks like
mailman keeps trying to resend a 450 bounce, every 15(?) minutes.

Bounces from other mail servers tend to carry the 550 code (=
permanent failure?) and mailman gives up.

Uhm, will it keep on doing this forever? It's tried sending to
beverley over 130 times since yesterday morning. 

Regards,

- nick


From ndl at ravenbrook.com  Sun Mar 13 19:03:53 2005
From: ndl at ravenbrook.com (Nick Levine)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 18:03:53 GMT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] investigating attack-like
 "mailfailures"
In-Reply-To: <p0620072fbe5a2f9889c4@[10.0.1.3]> (message from Brad Knowles on
	Sun, 13 Mar 2005 19:00:24 +0100)
References: <PC1743200503130806280140b5735d28@msapiro>
	<200503131717.j2DHHvvr031814@gadwall.ravenbrook.com>
	<p0620072fbe5a2f9889c4@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <200503131803.j2DI3rkw031859@gadwall.ravenbrook.com>

Brad,

	It's not Mailman trying to resend the message.  It's your MTA,
to which Mailman handed over the message.

Aha.

	   However, the MTA-specific aspects of this process are
   something you should pursue on a mailing list or newsgroup that is
   appropriate to your MTA (e.g., postfix-users), and not here.

Of course. Thanks again.

- nick


From CKaliniak at aol.com  Sun Mar 13 20:28:34 2005
From: CKaliniak at aol.com (CKaliniak at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 14:28:34 EST
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help!
Message-ID: <1e6.373b0d06.2f65ee62@aol.com>

I am administrator of four lists and can't seem to find any options  that 
will forward bounces to me...I want to know which email addresses are bad,  
rejected, etc., so that I can research them and make the appropriate  
changes/updates to my list...can you tell me where in the setup menu I need to  go to make 
that change?
 
thank you!


From tyoggev at 013.net  Sun Mar 13 21:54:32 2005
From: tyoggev at 013.net (Tamara Yoggev)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 12:54:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installing..PLEASE help
Message-ID: <001601c5280e$dbb25d80$3a884055@aish8yaygqb4pb>

Hi there,

I've just installed mailman on a Linux server, and I'm having a few problems, 
some which may be related. Well here goes:

1. I'm using sendmail as my mailing system. I went through the tutorial , and tried to
create the sendmail.cf file from the sample file in ../mailman../contrib. I only changed
a few lines related to my host etc. bit when I ran the m4 and then restarted sendmail
I got a lot of errors, Here is a snip:
(and BTW, all the files that are referred as 'No such file or directory' DO exist in /etc/mail where all  my sendmail configuration is done )
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[root at localhost mail]# make start
service sendmail start
Starting sendmail: 451 4.0.0 /etc/mail/sendmail.cf: line 7: fileclass: cannot open 'ATURE(local_procmail)': No such file or directory
554 5.0.0 /etc/mail/sendmail.cf: line 8: MAILER(local): A= argument required
451 4.0.0 /etc/mail/sendmail.cf: line 19: fileclass: cannot open 'ATURE(mailertable,': No such file or directory
451 4.0.0 /etc/mail/sendmail.cf: line 21: fileclass: cannot open 'ATURE(virtusertable,': No such file or directory
554 5.0.0 /etc/mail/sendmail.cf: line 23: invalid argument to V line: "IRTUSER_DOMAIN(aishl"
451 4.0.0 /etc/mail/sendmail.cf: line 28: fileclass: cannot open 'ATURE(limited_masquerade)': No such file or directory
554 5.0.0 /etc/mail/sendmail.cf: line 29: MASQUERADE_AS(aishlist.com): A= argument required
451 4.0.0 /etc/mail/sendmail.cf: line 32: fileclass: cannot open 'ATURE(access_db)': No such file or directory
451 4.0.0 /etc/mail/sendmail.cf: line 35: fileclass: cannot open 'ATURE(blacklist_recipients)': No such file or directory
554 5.0.0 /etc/mail/sendmail.cf: line 38: MAILER(smtp): A= argument required
554 5.0.0 /etc/mail/sendmail.cf: line 39: MAILER(procmail): A= argument required
554 5.0.0 /etc/mail/sendmail.cf: line 42: MAILER_DEFINITIONS: A= argument required
554 5.0.0 No local mailer defined
554 5.0.0 QueueDirectory (Q) option must be set
                                                           [FAILED]
Starting sm-client:                                        [  OK  ]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2. I've successfully created a few lists via the command line, but when I try to create a list on the web, I get this message:
   Error: you are not authorized to create new mailing lists.
   I'm using my site password (which I know I created), which is the same as list administrator password for the bottom field, and
  yes, I've recreated the password and tries creating the list several times. I know I have'nt misspelled anything.

3. When I try to view the list properties on the web, for instance: If I created a list called 'test', and I go to www.dom.ain\mailman\admin\testI get a message: No such list: test. (and it does exist when I run the list_lists command, it's there!)

I'd really appreciate if there is anyone out there who could help me.

well, waiting...
Tamara



From carfield at gmail.com  Mon Mar 14 04:22:33 2005
From: carfield at gmail.com (Carfield Yim)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:22:33 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible to use mailman without apache?
In-Reply-To: <PC1742200503120715550000ff74e557@msapiro>
References: <d0u5jm$i4g$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<PC1742200503120715550000ff74e557@msapiro>
Message-ID: <b4503c1705031319227cb0cb4f@mail.gmail.com>

Thx, it work!

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 07:15:55 -0800, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Carfield Yim wrote:
> 
> >Actually I just want to approve a pending mail, can I do it with command
> >line?
> 
> I'm not sure about command line, but you can do it by e-mail. If
> admin_immed_notify is set to Yes, the notification message that is
> sent contains a message/rfc822 part similar to the following:
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Subject: confirm 750c69674069227167abb400c93d75b58234d6f1
> Sender: <listname>-request at example.com
> From: <listname>-request at example.com
> 
> If you reply to this message, keeping the Subject: header intact,
> Mailman will discard the held message.  Do this if the message is
> spam.  If you reply to this message and include an Approved: header
> with the list password in it, the message will be approved for posting
> to the list.  The Approved: header can also appear in the first line
> of the body of the reply.
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Thus, you can actually send any message to the <listname>-request
> address with the confirm <token> command in the subject with an
> 
> Approved: <password>
> 
> header or first body line to approve the message or without Approved:
> to discard it.
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>


From carfield at gmail.com  Sun Mar 13 14:49:22 2005
From: carfield at gmail.com (Carfield Yim)
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 21:49:22 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is it possible to use mailman without apache?
In-Reply-To: <p06200713be589beded1b@10.0.1.3>
References: <d0u5jm$i4g$1@sea.gmane.org> <p06200713be589beded1b@10.0.1.3>
Message-ID: <b4503c1705031305492fcc58e@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:16:21 +0100, Brad Knowles
<brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote:
> At 3:27 PM +0800 2005-03-12, Carfield Yim wrote:
> 
> >  Actually I just want to approve a pending mail, can I do it with command
> >  line?
> 
>         Yes.  The administrators of very large scale Mailman mailing
> lists are effectively required to do everything via the command line,
> because the web interface becomes virtually useless for them.
> 
>         However, I do not know the exact sequence of commands that would
> be required.
> 
So... could anyone help me?


From puntomaupunto at tin.it  Mon Mar 14 11:43:38 2005
From: puntomaupunto at tin.it (maurizio codogno)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:43:38 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] munging email address in archives
Message-ID: <4200093000055417@ims4a.cp.tin.it>

I was told by a subscriber of a list I manage that there are some 
worms/viruses which are able to parse addresses in the form 
"user at domain dot domain", like those used in the archives by mailman.
Do you know if there is some provision in Mailman 2.2 to let the list
admin choose a munging expression for addresses? I do not know Python
at all, but I hope it would not be so difficult, especially if there 
is already a function which performs the munging!

TIA, .mau.



From david.wills at naughtyvend.com  Mon Mar 14 11:52:02 2005
From: david.wills at naughtyvend.com (David Wills)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:52:02 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email Features in Mailman
Message-ID: <20050314105204.DE8B11E4002@bag.python.org>

Hi, could I ask for a wee bit support please.?

 

Have read the FAQ's etc and understand how to add a user by emailing
LISTNAME_join at DOMAIN which in our case is franchisees_join at naughtyvend.com
however the sender is not added to the list. We do have a catch all which I
switched off but that didn't help.

 

Any suggestions appreciated and thank you!

 

Dave.

 

 

Disclaimer of Content and Validity

Mr David T Wills
Managing Director & Co-Founder
Naughty Vend (UK) Ltd.
Office Suite 610
456-458 The Strand
London, WC2R 0DZ

This email is intended solely for the addressee, is strictly confidential
and may also be legally privileged. If you are not the addressee please do
not read, print, re-transmit, store or act in reliance on it or any
attachments. Instead, please email it back to the sender and then
immediately and permanently delete it.

Naughty Vend (UK) Ltd., Company Number SC270576

This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the
presence of computer viruses but does not guarantee that it will be virus
free. 

 



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Mar 14 12:05:37 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 12:05:37 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] noobie question
In-Reply-To: <4234F547.3040403@edwardsbrewing.com>
References: <4234F547.3040403@edwardsbrewing.com>
Message-ID: <p06200733be5b200be548@[10.0.1.3]>

At 8:21 PM -0600 2005-03-13, Mike Edwards wrote:

>  I'm having trouble getting mailman and postfix to work together--
>  despite reading all the FAQs and other docs I can find.  I have
>  successfully set up a virtual postfix domain, but can't get mailman to
>  answer mail properly (it sends out fine).

	You're not giving us a whole lot to work with here.  If you want 
us to be able to help you, we're going to need more information.

	Please see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp> 
and 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.023.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From theall at tifaware.com  Mon Mar 14 13:06:02 2005
From: theall at tifaware.com (George Theall)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 07:06:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTDIG problems
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503131749550.7643@jajja.nomell.se>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503121033570.17513@jajja.nomell.se>
	<20050312144457.GA10813@tifaware.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0503131749550.7643@jajja.nomell.se>
Message-ID: <20050314120602.GA32662@tifaware.com>

On Sun, Mar 13, 2005 at 05:55:16PM +0100, Joakim Nomell wrote:

> > /usr/bin/htsearch -c $prefix/archives/htdig/<listname>.conf
> >
> >Give it something to search for and answer "short" for the format value.
> 
> Nothing in the webserverlog but the comandline test gave no output at all:

This suggests a problem with htdig / htsearch rather than Mailman.

> [root at jajja mailman-2.1.5]# /usr/bin/htsearch -c 
> /prod/mailman/archives/private/si
> s/htdig/sis.conf

You could try adding "-v -v" before the "-c" to increase the verbosity
level. 

> [root at jajja htdig]# ls -l
...
> -rw-rw-r--    1 mailman  mailman     16384 Mar 13 13:46 
> db.words.db_weakcmpr

Some versions of htdig have a bug that requires this file be writeable
by the user running htsearch.  Try making it world writeable and rerun
the htsearch commandline.  If it works, you could change the permissions
back and change ownership to be that of the web server uid.  If not, ask
on htdig-general (http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=4593). 


George
-- 
theall at tifaware.com
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From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Mar 14 13:01:10 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:01:10 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] munging email address in archives
In-Reply-To: <4200093000055417@ims4a.cp.tin.it>
References: <4200093000055417@ims4a.cp.tin.it>
Message-ID: <p06200735be5b250910b8@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:43 AM +0000 2005-03-14, maurizio codogno wrote:

>  I was told by a subscriber of a list I manage that there are some
>  worms/viruses which are able to parse addresses in the form
>  "user at domain dot domain", like those used in the archives by mailman.

	I would not be surprised.  This issue has been previously 
reported.  See 
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1059637&group_id=103&atid=100103>, 
among others.

>  Do you know if there is some provision in Mailman 2.2 to let the list
>  admin choose a munging expression for addresses?

	Mailman 2.2 does not exist, at least not yet.

>                                                   I do not know Python
>  at all, but I hope it would not be so difficult, especially if there
>  is already a function which performs the munging!

	I think this has been discussed on the list fairly extensively. 
Check the archives to see if anyone else has provided a recommended 
patch for this issue.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Mar 14 13:06:55 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:06:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installing..PLEASE help
In-Reply-To: <001601c5280e$dbb25d80$3a884055@aish8yaygqb4pb>
References: <001601c5280e$dbb25d80$3a884055@aish8yaygqb4pb>
Message-ID: <p06200736be5b2d9c131a@[10.0.1.3]>

At 12:54 PM -0800 2005-03-13, Tamara Yoggev wrote:

>  Starting sendmail: 451 4.0.0 /etc/mail/sendmail.cf: line 7: fileclass:
>  cannot open 'ATURE(local_procmail)': No such file or directory

	This is supposed to be "FEATURE(local_procmail)".  Somehow, the 
leading "FE" appears to have been left off, and this has almost 
certainly caused everything else to be thrown out of what.  If you 
correct the use of "ATURE" with "FEATURE" and re-try, you'll have a 
better chance of getting that to work.

	Of course, these changes need to be made in a file like 
/etc/mail/sendmail.mc, and then you use m4 to "compile" that into the 
corresponding /etc/mail/sendmail.cf.  If you did this directly in 
/etc/mail/sendmail.cf, then that would be your other problem.

>  2. I've successfully created a few lists via the command line, but when I
>  try to create a list on the web, I get this message:
>     Error: you are not authorized to create new mailing lists.
>     I'm using my site password (which I know I created), which is the same
>  as list administrator password for the bottom field, and
>    yes, I've recreated the password and tries creating the list several
>  times. I know I have'nt misspelled anything.

	Not sure what to tell you.  This error should only be issued when 
you're using an incorrect site password, as generated by mmsitepass.

	What's showing up in your logs?

>  3. When I try to view the list properties on the web, for instance: If
>  I created a list called 'test', and I go to www.dom.ain\mailman\admin\testI
>  get a message: No such list: test. (and it does exist when I run the
>  list_lists command, it's there!)

	You need to use forward slashes, not backslashes.  You also need 
to avoid the use of the vertical pipe character.

	However, until you can get problems #1 and #2 corrected, I 
wouldn't be surprised that you'd have additional problems like this. 
Go back and get #1 and #2 fixed, and that may very well fix #3 as 
well.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Mar 14 13:09:23 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:09:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help!
In-Reply-To: <1e6.373b0d06.2f65ee62@aol.com>
References: <1e6.373b0d06.2f65ee62@aol.com>
Message-ID: <p06200737be5b2f0968af@[10.0.1.3]>

At 2:28 PM -0500 2005-03-13, CKaliniak at aol.com wrote:

>  I am administrator of four lists and can't seem to find any options  that
>  will forward bounces to me...I want to know which email addresses are bad,
>  rejected, etc., so that I can research them and make the appropriate
>  changes/updates to my list...can you tell me where in the setup menu I
>  need to  go to make that change?

	Whenever an address is unsubscribed from the list due to 
excessive bounces, you should get a notice which includes all the 
relevant information.  You won't otherwise get any notices, as 
Mailman handles this stuff internally.

	If you want to be notified of any problems whatsoever, so far as 
I know the only solution is to set your unsubscribe threshold to a 
single bounce.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Mar 14 13:13:06 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:13:06 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email Features in Mailman
In-Reply-To: <20050314105204.DE8B11E4002@bag.python.org>
References: <20050314105204.DE8B11E4002@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <p06200738be5b2faa8e83@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:52 AM +0000 2005-03-14, David Wills wrote:

>  Have read the FAQ's etc and understand how to add a user by emailing
>  LISTNAME_join at DOMAIN

	This syntax does not work with Mailman.  Instead, send an e-mail 
message to "listname-request" with a subject line of "subscribe".

	Or use "listname-join", as opposed to "listname_join".

>                       which in our case is franchisees_join at naughtyvend.com
>  however the sender is not added to the list. We do have a catch all which I
>  switched off but that didn't help.

	In particular, note the use of the "dash" character instead of 
the "underbar".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From john at wa9als.com  Mon Mar 14 14:22:51 2005
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 08:22:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Too many recip" moderation?
Message-ID: <005a01c52898$ec7f8f90$6b386940@john44h9g41>

Can I turn this off?


From jwt at onjapan.net  Mon Mar 14 14:37:47 2005
From: jwt at onjapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 22:37:47 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Too many recip" moderation?
In-Reply-To: <005a01c52898$ec7f8f90$6b386940@john44h9g41>
References: <005a01c52898$ec7f8f90$6b386940@john44h9g41>
Message-ID: <6b32cd691b96950a8bfc0328df7a91c6@onjapan.net>

On Mar 14, 2005, at 22:22, John Fleming wrote:

> Can I turn this off?

Yes.  Set max_num_recipients to 0 on the Privacy... Recipients 
filters... page.

(User education may be better.  :-)
-- 
Jim Tittsler             http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship          http://Starship.Python.net/
Ringo MUG Tokyo          http://www.ringo.net/rss.html



From john at wa9als.com  Mon Mar 14 15:23:55 2005
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:23:55 -0500
Subject: SOLVED - Re: [Mailman-Users] "Too many recip" moderation?
References: <005a01c52898$ec7f8f90$6b386940@john44h9g41>
	<6b32cd691b96950a8bfc0328df7a91c6@onjapan.net>
Message-ID: <002101c528a1$746ccbe0$6b386940@john44h9g41>

> > Can I turn this off?
> 
> Yes.  Set max_num_recipients to 0 on the Privacy... Recipients 
> filters... page.

Thanks - I looked, but missed this.  Agreed on User Education.  - John


From jmhayes at speakeasy.net  Mon Mar 14 17:54:21 2005
From: jmhayes at speakeasy.net (Jordan Hayes)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 08:54:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Latency in 2.1.5
Message-ID: <011001c528b6$7893acb0$1048a8c0@PAD2>

I run a list with ~200 recipients that sees about 80-100 posts per day.
It's running 2.1.5 on Solaris 8 (pretty well patched) on a SunBlade 100
with plenty of memory and disk.  On a pretty regular basis, I see
messages take a long time to make it through the Mailman queue.  Today's
example was for 50 minutes.  I think.  It's hard to tell.  But here's
some sendmail logs:

Here's where it came in:

Mar 14 06:58:05 REMOVED sm-mta[22367]:
  [ID 801593 mail.info] j2EEvxPo022367:
  from=<REMOVED>, size=2487, class=0, nrcpts=1,
  msgid=<Pine.NEB.4.61.0503140943000.28291 at REMOVED>,
  proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=REMOVED [REMOVED]

and here's the first batch it sent out:

Mar 14 07:48:30 REMOVED sm-mta[26377]:
  [ID 801593 mail.info] j2EFmTgK026377:
  from=REMOVED-bounces at REMOVED, size=3530, class=-30, nrcpts=24,
  msgid=<Pine.NEB.4.61.0503140943000.28291 at REMOVED>,
  proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=localhost [127.0.0.1]

I looked at the logs and found this: the previous post finished at
07:48:29, suspiciously 1 second before the first batch of the next
message was sent.  This post finished at 08:08:09 ... 20 minutes later?
Could it really be taking 20 minutes to post?  The entry in the smtp log
says this:

Mar 14 08:08:09 2005 (25898) <Pine.NEB.4.61.0503140943000.28291 at REMOVED>
   smtp for 209 recips, completed in 1180.264 seconds

So, uh, yes I guess it did take that long.

I use weekly archives, and this week's archive directory only has about
a dozen messages in it.  The HTML archive was generated at 07:50:19 ...

So I guess there are two variables at work here that determine latency:
how long it takes to do one message, and how many messages are ahead of
you.

Any ideas why this is taking so long or where else I could look to check
into it?

Thanks,

/jordan



From mail at christiananton.de  Mon Mar 14 17:54:34 2005
From: mail at christiananton.de (Christian Anton)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 17:54:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] true virtual hosting with mailman-2.1.5
Message-ID: <4235C1CA.7000304@christiananton.de>

Hi everybody!

I'm wanting to use mailman on a postfix-powered machine with virtual 
domains. As i found out that "out-of-the-box" mailman does not support 
this fine (one only namespace for mailing list names etc) i found this 
patch in the FAQ of mailman:
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=943827&group_id=103&atid=300103

The problem i have with it is that it seems to be for an older version 
of mailman. It says something of version 2.1.1. I'm using 2.1.5 so it 
will not apply. I tried to patch the file manually reading the patch and 
making the changes in the source file, everything installes fine but 
when i try to access mailman's "listinfo" cgi with a browser, i get this:

Mar 14 17:45:11 2005 admin(4153): 
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(4153): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.5 -----]
admin(4153): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(4153): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(4153):   File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 94, in run_main
admin(4153):     pkg = __import__('Mailman.Cgi', globals(), locals(), 
[scriptname])
admin(4153):   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 27, in ?
admin(4153):     from Mailman import MailList
admin(4153): IndentationError: unindent does not match any outer 
indentation level (MailList.py, line 449)
admin(4153): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(4153): sys.version     =   2.3.4 (#1, Mar  3 2005, 21:56:32)
[GCC 3.3.5  (Gentoo Linux 3.3.5-r1, ssp-3.3.2-3, pie-8.7.7.1)]
admin(4153): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python
admin(4153): sys.prefix      =   /usr
admin(4153): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr
admin(4153): sys.path        =   /usr
admin(4153): sys.platform    =   linux2
admin(4153): [----- Environment Variables -----]
admin(4153):    SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache
admin(4153):    SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/listinfo
admin(4153):    SERVER_SIGNATURE: <address>Apache Server at 
lists.citservice.de Port 80</address>
admin(4153):
admin(4153):    REQUEST_METHOD: GET
admin(4153):    HTTP_KEEP_ALIVE: 300
admin(4153):    SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1
admin(4153):    QUERY_STRING:
admin(4153):    HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7
admin(4153):    HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; 
en-US; rv:1.7.6) Gecko/20050301 Firefox/1.0.1
admin(4153):    HTTP_CONNECTION: keep-alive
admin(4153):    SERVER_NAME: lists.citservice.de
admin(4153):    REMOTE_ADDR: 213.54.138.86
admin(4153):    SERVER_PORT: 80
admin(4153):    SERVER_ADDR: 80.190.241.119
admin(4153):    DOCUMENT_ROOT: /home/mailman
admin(4153):    PYTHONPATH: /home/mailman
admin(4153):    SCRIPT_FILENAME: /home/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo
admin(4153):    SERVER_ADMIN: webmaster at citservice.de
admin(4153):    HTTP_HOST: lists.citservice.de
admin(4153):    HTTP_CACHE_CONTROL: max-age=0
admin(4153):    REQUEST_URI: /mailman/listinfo
admin(4153):    HTTP_ACCEPT: 
text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5
admin(4153):    GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
admin(4153):    REMOTE_PORT: 55268
admin(4153):    HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: de-de,en-us;q=0.7,en;q=0.3
admin(4153):    HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: gzip,deflate


Is there a working and maybe something tested patch for version 2.1.5 
already? Or another fine solution to make real virtual hosting?

Thank you all in advance!

Christian Anton


From rufranco at utep.edu  Mon Mar 14 18:26:39 2005
From: rufranco at utep.edu (Franco, Ruben)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:26:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin pw: change_pw Vs. web interface
Message-ID: <ABEE86028827FF4FB7FF10890F537FB78844B5@itdsrvmail00.utep.edu>

     I have noticed that when changing the password for a list
administrator using "change_pw", that mailman automatically e-mails a
notification to the list owner of the change.  When changing the list
administrator password via the Web Interface, there is no e-mail
notification.  Is there a way to automatically have an e-mail
notification sent to the list owner when resetting the administrator
password done via the Web Interface?


Ruben

 



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 14 18:36:02 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:36:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] true virtual hosting with mailman-2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <4235C1CA.7000304@christiananton.de>
Message-ID: <PC1744200503140936020581d7d70fc7@msapiro>

Christian Anton wrote:
>
>I'm wanting to use mailman on a postfix-powered machine with virtual 
>domains. As i found out that "out-of-the-box" mailman does not support 
>this fine (one only namespace for mailing list names etc) i found this 
>patch in the FAQ of mailman:
>http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=943827&group_id=103&atid=300103
>
>The problem i have with it is that it seems to be for an older version 
>of mailman. It says something of version 2.1.1. I'm using 2.1.5 so it 
>will not apply. I tried to patch the file manually reading the patch and 
>making the changes in the source file, everything installes fine but 
>when i try to access mailman's "listinfo" cgi with a browser, i get this:
>
>Mar 14 17:45:11 2005 admin(4153): 
>@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>admin(4153): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.5 -----]
>admin(4153): [----- Traceback ------]
>admin(4153): Traceback (most recent call last):
>admin(4153):   File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 94, in run_main
>admin(4153):     pkg = __import__('Mailman.Cgi', globals(), locals(), 
>[scriptname])
>admin(4153):   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py", line 27, in ?
>admin(4153):     from Mailman import MailList
>admin(4153): IndentationError: unindent does not match any outer 
>indentation level (MailList.py, line 449)
<snip>

Indentation is critical in Python. You have not properly matched
indentation between the patch and the base in MailList.py. It is
safest to indent with spaces only. Mixing spaces and tabs in one file
causes problems.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 14 18:50:22 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:50:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin pw: change_pw Vs. web interface
In-Reply-To: <ABEE86028827FF4FB7FF10890F537FB78844B5@itdsrvmail00.utep.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1744200503140950220988f2c4fef2@msapiro>

Franco, Ruben wrote:

>     I have noticed that when changing the password for a list
>administrator using "change_pw", that mailman automatically e-mails a
>notification to the list owner of the change.  When changing the list
>administrator password via the Web Interface, there is no e-mail
>notification.  Is there a way to automatically have an e-mail
>notification sent to the list owner when resetting the administrator
>password done via the Web Interface?

Not without changing the code in Mailman/Cgi/admin.py.

The change_pw script was developed primarily to address the change in
stored password format in Mailman 2.1 that required resetting all list
passwords and notifying list owners. Presumably, that's why it has
this feature and the web interface doesn't.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From forrie at forrie.com  Mon Mar 14 19:09:02 2005
From: forrie at forrie.com (Forrest Aldrich)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:09:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman for High Volume Subscription
	Mailings... and High Availability
Message-ID: <4235D33E.8030500@forrie.com>

The organization I work for has a membership (list) base of in excess of 
90,000 users.   In the past, we've outsourced our mailings (not spam! 
but legitimate newsletter mailings that our users sign up for) to 
external companies that have sophisticated bounce handling, etc. etc.

I have been asked if we could bring this task in-house.

I wonder what resources (and perhaps fine-tuning) would be required to 
get Mailman to accomodate these sorts of large tasks.

Earlier, I posted a question about High Availability and received only 
one response (thank you, though).  There has to be a way to scale 
Mailman into a large infrastructure (?).   Given that Mailman is, in of 
itself, an API, there must be some way to hook into the MTA (Postfix, in 
our case).

I'd appreciate information from someone who has implemented something 
this significant.

The outsourced company we used in the past had sophisticated queue 
monitoring tools (php-based) as well as queue management (Postfix used 
as the MTA).

Thanks in advance....




From anne at isoc.org  Mon Mar 14 19:16:44 2005
From: anne at isoc.org (Anne Shroeder - Internet Society)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:16:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cc messages to mailman lists
In-Reply-To: <PC1744200503140936020581d7d70fc7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <HGEKLFPEOHKAOBIMHGHPEEKGKAAA.anne@isoc.org>

My boss just asked me why messages sent via cc to a list end up in the
pending queue.  My assumption is that it is to prevent spam, but is
there any way to turn this feature off?  (Note:  I do not think it is a
good idea to turn it off, but am being *requested* to do it<G>).

Anne



From forrie at forrie.com  Mon Mar 14 21:36:55 2005
From: forrie at forrie.com (Forrest Aldrich)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 15:36:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Database....
In-Reply-To: <4235D33E.8030500@forrie.com>
References: <4235D33E.8030500@forrie.com>
Message-ID: <4235F5E7.9040303@forrie.com>

It seems that many of the scalability issues could be addressed by 
changing the backend database that Mailman uses... to SQL.

If we had the ability to store content in a backend SQL database - we 
could further scale this using standard mechanisms.

Thoughts?




From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 14 21:39:35 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 12:39:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cc messages to mailman lists
In-Reply-To: <HGEKLFPEOHKAOBIMHGHPEEKGKAAA.anne@isoc.org>
Message-ID: <PC174420050314123935038770055b66@msapiro>

Anne Shroeder - Internet Society wrote:

>My boss just asked me why messages sent via cc to a list end up in the
>pending queue.  My assumption is that it is to prevent spam, but is
>there any way to turn this feature off?  (Note:  I do not think it is a
>good idea to turn it off, but am being *requested* to do it<G>).

Do you really mean via Cc:, or do you mean via Bcc:? Messages sent to a
list via Bcc: are generally held (depending on settings) for "implicit
destination". There should be no difference between a post with the
list address in Cc: vs. To: "everything else being equal".

Every message that is held has a reason associated with it which is
reported in the admindb interface and in the notice to the list owner.
What is the reason in these cases?

If the messages are being held for implicit destination, see the admin
pages Privacy options...->Recipient
filters->require_explicit_destination. Also look at max_num_recipients
on the same page in case the real reason is "too many recipients".

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jdennis at redhat.com  Mon Mar 14 21:42:01 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 15:42:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Database....
In-Reply-To: <4235F5E7.9040303@forrie.com>
References: <4235D33E.8030500@forrie.com>  <4235F5E7.9040303@forrie.com>
Message-ID: <1110832921.27285.103.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Mon, 2005-03-14 at 15:36 -0500, Forrest Aldrich wrote:
> It seems that many of the scalability issues could be addressed by 
> changing the backend database that Mailman uses... to SQL.
> 
> If we had the ability to store content in a backend SQL database - we 
> could further scale this using standard mechanisms.
> 
> Thoughts?

I believe this is on the to-do list for Mailman Version 3.0 (a.k.a MM3)
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 14 21:57:08 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 12:57:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Database....
In-Reply-To: <1110832921.27285.103.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <PC1744200503141257080405db9cb81d@msapiro>

John Dennis wrote:

>On Mon, 2005-03-14 at 15:36 -0500, Forrest Aldrich wrote:
>> It seems that many of the scalability issues could be addressed by 
>> changing the backend database that Mailman uses... to SQL.
>> 
>> If we had the ability to store content in a backend SQL database - we 
>> could further scale this using standard mechanisms.
>> 
>> Thoughts?
>
>I believe this is on the to-do list for Mailman Version 3.0 (a.k.a MM3)

It is. See http://www.list.org/todo.html

In the mean time there is a MySQL MemberAdaptor for Mailman 2.1 at
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=839386&group_id=103&atid=300103

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From rufranco at utep.edu  Mon Mar 14 22:21:43 2005
From: rufranco at utep.edu (Franco, Ruben)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:21:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving archives between lists
Message-ID: <ABEE86028827FF4FB7FF10890F537FB78844EF@itdsrvmail00.utep.edu>

            One of our list owners wishes to change the name of his
list.  I could not find a rename utility so we are going to try creating
a new list and then moving members and the post archives to a newly
created list.  I was able to export and then import he users but Have
run into problems copying over the archives.

 

            Tried copying the contents of the
./archives/private/<old_list> into the ./archives/private/<new_list>.
While the archives are viewable, some links in the archive pages are
hard coded to the <old_list>.  Is there any kind of migration utility
that could more cleanly move the archives over or something to fix the
links to point to the <new_list>?

 

Ruben

 

 



From rufranco at utep.edu  Mon Mar 14 22:35:17 2005
From: rufranco at utep.edu (Franco, Ruben)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:35:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving archives between lists
Message-ID: <ABEE86028827FF4FB7FF10890F537FB78844F5@itdsrvmail00.utep.edu>

That did the trick.

Thanks.

Ruben

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Phillips [mailto:dhphllps at memphis.edu] 
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 2:33 PM
To: Franco, Ruben
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] moving archives between lists


On Mar 14, 2005, at 3:21 PM, Franco, Ruben wrote:
> Is there any kind of migration utility
> that could more cleanly move the archives over or something to fix the
> links to point to the <new_list>?

No. Copy the old list's mbox file from 
$PREFIX/archives/private/oldlistname.mbox/oldlistname.mbox into 
$PREFIX/archives/private/newlistname.mbox/newlistname.mbox and run 
bin/arch --wipe.

Dan



================================
Dan Phillips
Professor of Horn, University of Memphis
webmaster: http://music.memphis.edu



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 14 22:37:33 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:37:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moving archives between lists
In-Reply-To: <ABEE86028827FF4FB7FF10890F537FB78844EF@itdsrvmail00.utep.edu>
Message-ID: <PC174420050314133733018509cb277a@msapiro>

Franco, Ruben wrote:

>            One of our list owners wishes to change the name of his
>list.  I could not find a rename utility so we are going to try creating
>a new list and then moving members and the post archives to a newly
>created list.  I was able to export and then import he users but Have
>run into problems copying over the archives.
>
>
>            Tried copying the contents of the
>./archives/private/<old_list> into the ./archives/private/<new_list>.
>While the archives are viewable, some links in the archive pages are
>hard coded to the <old_list>.  Is there any kind of migration utility
>that could more cleanly move the archives over or something to fix the
>links to point to the <new_list>?

Copy the ./archives/private/<old_list>.mbox/<old_list>.mbox file to
./archives/private/<new_list>.mbox/<new_list>.mbox and then run

bin/arch --wipe new-list

to (re-)build the archives.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Mar 14 23:09:36 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 23:09:36 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Latency in 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <011001c528b6$7893acb0$1048a8c0@PAD2>
References: <011001c528b6$7893acb0$1048a8c0@PAD2>
Message-ID: <p06200743be5bbc037374@[10.0.1.3]>

At 8:54 AM -0800 2005-03-14, Jordan Hayes wrote:

>  Any ideas why this is taking so long or where else I could look to check
>  into it?

	I suggest going to the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> and searching for 
"performance".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Mar 14 23:22:50 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 23:22:50 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman for High Volume
	Subscription 	Mailings... and High Availability
In-Reply-To: <4235D33E.8030500@forrie.com>
References: <4235D33E.8030500@forrie.com>
Message-ID: <p06200744be5bbcdea6f5@[10.0.1.3]>

At 1:09 PM -0500 2005-03-14, Forrest Aldrich wrote:

>  I wonder what resources (and perhaps fine-tuning) would be required to
>  get Mailman to accomodate these sorts of large tasks.

	See <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.015.htp>.

	Also search for "performance" within the FAQ Wizard.

>  Earlier, I posted a question about High Availability and received only
>  one response (thank you, though).  There has to be a way to scale Mailman
>  into a large infrastructure (?).   Given that Mailman is, in of itself,
>  an API, there must be some way to hook into the MTA (Postfix, in our case).

	In terms of doing high-availability, I think most people have 
been splitting the front-end web service from the back-end list 
processing, as well as splitting the MTA services onto separate 
machines.

	If you need the back-end Mailman-only stuff to also be highly 
available, you should be able to mostly do that with NFS, but this 
may run into some problems, and will certainly cost you in terms of 
performance.

>  I'd appreciate information from someone who has implemented something
>  this significant.

	Most of the information about large-scale mailing lists is 
already found in the FAQ entry mentioned above, or in the archives. 
There's a lot less information in the FAQ Wizard or in the archives 
with regards to high-availability configurations.

	I don't think anyone anywhere has publicly talked about doing 
both high-volume and high-availability, at least not with Mailman.

>  The outsourced company we used in the past had sophisticated queue
>  monitoring tools (php-based) as well as queue management (Postfix
>  used as the MTA).

	Postfix can be a really good MTA for mailing lists, at least for 
handling outbound e-mail.

	If you get into lots of message scanning and having to pass 
through multiple scanning systems (e.g., multiple anti-spam and 
anti-virus scanning systems), then I think sendmail would scale 
better (due to the milter interface), but sendmail would also take 
more work to configure, and more care and feeding to keep going once 
it's configured.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From lists at lastonepicked.com  Tue Mar 15 00:38:43 2005
From: lists at lastonepicked.com (Hunter Hillegas)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 15:38:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cancel Rest of Traffic?
Message-ID: <BE5B6083.6997F%lists@lastonepicked.com>

Hi.

We sent out a large mailing and mailman 2.1.5/postfix processed it quite
well.

Right now we're seeing bounces come back and the system trying to redeliver
queued messages, etc...

This was a one shot deal and the bounces really aren't that important to
record.

Is there a way that we can send them to /dev/null and empty the postfix
queue?

Hunter




From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 15 01:06:14 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:06:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cancel Rest of Traffic?
In-Reply-To: <BE5B6083.6997F%lists@lastonepicked.com>
Message-ID: <PC17442005031416061401572ed8500b@msapiro>

Hunter Hillegas wrote:
>
>We sent out a large mailing and mailman 2.1.5/postfix processed it quite
>well.
>
>Right now we're seeing bounces come back and the system trying to redeliver
>queued messages, etc...
>
>This was a one shot deal and the bounces really aren't that important to
>record.
>
>Is there a way that we can send them to /dev/null and empty the postfix
>queue?

It seems this is a Postfix issue, not a Mailman issue, at least as far
as the messages still queued for delivery is concerned.

If you don't want to process any future returned bounces, you could
probably just change the <listname>-aliases address to pipe the
message to the bit bucket.

As far as emptying the Postfix queue goes, this would be better persued
using lists or other resources dedicated to Postfix rather than
Mailman.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 15 01:38:06 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:38:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cancel Rest of Traffic?
In-Reply-To: <PC17442005031416061401572ed8500b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC1744200503141638060188a1dde842@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>If you don't want to process any future returned bounces, you could
>probably just change the <listname>-aliases address to pipe the
>message to the bit bucket.


Sorry, the above should say "... change the <listname>-bounces address
alias ..."

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jessica at jessicamartin.org  Tue Mar 15 06:03:55 2005
From: jessica at jessicamartin.org (Jessica Martin)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 21:03:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuring the UI of Mailmain interface
Message-ID: <49951.64.81.242.20.1110863035.squirrel@www.jessicamartin.org>

Greetings Mailman community,

I have successfully installed and am using Mailman, and now I would like
to just clean it up.

For example, there are several confirmation pages. I would like to
customize the font info using a stylesheet. Is this possible?

I would also like to customize the text on these confirm/authorization
pages as well, what the text says on these pages to make it more
personalized. Possible?

Also, with the language feature when people subscribe, the languages are
rendering in the title ONLY of my confirm pages, but not in the text
itself (Because I made customized text perhaps?) Does the language feature
only work with the default text remains intact?

Lastly, I want to link the images of Mailman, Python, and that Moose image
(what page does it represent?) anyway I want to link these images to the
appropriate home pages. Possible? How?

Thanks in advance for your help,
Jessica



From forrie at forrie.com  Tue Mar 15 06:05:15 2005
From: forrie at forrie.com (Forrest Aldrich)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 00:05:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman for High Volume Subscription
	Mailings... and High Availability
In-Reply-To: <p06200744be5bbcdea6f5@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <4235D33E.8030500@forrie.com> <p06200744be5bbcdea6f5@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <42366D0B.50709@forrie.com>



Brad Knowles wrote:

> [ ... ]

>     In terms of doing high-availability, I think most people have been 
> splitting the front-end web service from the back-end list processing, 
> as well as splitting the MTA services onto separate machines.
>
>     If you need the back-end Mailman-only stuff to also be highly 
> available, you should be able to mostly do that with NFS, but this may 
> run into some problems, and will certainly cost you in terms of 
> performance.
> [ ... ]

>     I don't think anyone anywhere has publicly talked about doing both 
> high-volume and high-availability, at least not with Mailman.


I gather this, from all the searching I've done.    I've not really 
found any useful information about scaling and 
high-availabilty/redundancy in the FAQ or anywhere else.

The HA solution will very likely be solved with a stable 
database/backend hook where we can store/retrieve Mailman's information 
-- standard scalablity on that side will be relatively straightforward.

I've not looked into the MyslqMembership hack yet.   Has anyone used this?


Thanks,
Forrest



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 15 06:36:17 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 21:36:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuring the UI of Mailmain interface
In-Reply-To: <49951.64.81.242.20.1110863035.squirrel@www.jessicamartin.org>
Message-ID: <PC17442005031421361703601f30f579@msapiro>

Jessica Martin wrote:
>
>I have successfully installed and am using Mailman, and now I would like
>to just clean it up.
>
>For example, there are several confirmation pages. I would like to
>customize the font info using a stylesheet. Is this possible?
>
>I would also like to customize the text on these confirm/authorization
>pages as well, what the text says on these pages to make it more
>personalized. Possible?

Some but not all e-mail text and web HTML is in template files in
templates/<language>/. That which is derived from templates is easily
customizable. The rest requires source code modification and possibly
modification of i18n translated messages to do any customization.

Information on customizing templates is in the FAQ at
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp

>Also, with the language feature when people subscribe, the languages are
>rendering in the title ONLY of my confirm pages, but not in the text
>itself (Because I made customized text perhaps?) Does the language feature
>only work with the default text remains intact?

If you made customized text by changing text inside _() in source code,
you also have to change the appropriate
messages/<language>/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po file and then rebuild the
corresponding mailman.mo file with bin/msgfmt.py

>Lastly, I want to link the images of Mailman, Python, and that Moose image
>(what page does it represent?) anyway I want to link these images to the
>appropriate home pages. Possible? How?

It's a gnu, not a moose.

>From the INSTALL document (or from
http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node10.html)

    - Copy the Mailman, Python, and GNU logos to a location accessible
      to your web server.  E.g. with Apache, you've usually got an
      `icons' directory that you can drop the images into.  For
      example:

        % cp $prefix/icons/*.{jpg,png} /path/to/apache/icons

      You then want to add a line to your $prefix/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
      file which sets the base URL for the logos.  For example:

      IMAGE_LOGOS = '/images/'

      The default value for IMAGE_LOGOS is '/icons/'.  Read the
      comment in Defaults.py.in for details.


--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lists at user-land.org  Tue Mar 15 06:51:43 2005
From: lists at user-land.org (Philippe Landau)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 06:51:43 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman for High Volume
	Subscription	Mailings... and High Availability
In-Reply-To: <42366D0B.50709@forrie.com>
References: <4235D33E.8030500@forrie.com> <p06200744be5bbcdea6f5@[10.0.1.3]>
	<42366D0B.50709@forrie.com>
Message-ID: <423677EF.1090207@user-land.org>

Forrest Aldrich wrote:
>>     I don't think anyone anywhere has publicly talked about doing both 
>> high-volume and high-availability, at least not with Mailman.
pair.com has investigated this and put considerable
resources into these questions.
their newsgroups are semipublic,
but i am sure if you ask Kevin Martin
he can point you in the right direction.
excellent people there.

kind regards     philippe

--

> I gather this, from all the searching I've done.    I've not really 
> found any useful information about scaling and 
> high-availabilty/redundancy in the FAQ or anywhere else.
> 
> The HA solution will very likely be solved with a stable 
> database/backend hook where we can store/retrieve Mailman's information 
> -- standard scalablity on that side will be relatively straightforward.
> 
> I've not looked into the MyslqMembership hack yet.   Has anyone used this?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> Forrest



From jwblist at olympus.net  Tue Mar 15 06:57:41 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 21:57:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help!
In-Reply-To: <p06200737be5b2f0968af@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <BE5BB955.3388%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 3/14/2005 4:09, "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote:

> At 2:28 PM -0500 2005-03-13, CKaliniak at aol.com wrote:
> 
>>  I am administrator of four lists and can't seem to find any options  that
>>  will forward bounces to me...I want to know which email addresses are bad,
>>  rejected, etc., so that I can research them and make the appropriate
>>  changes/updates to my list...can you tell me where in the setup menu I
>>  need to  go to make that change?
> 
> Whenever an address is unsubscribed from the list due to
> excessive bounces, you should get a notice which includes all the
> relevant information.  You won't otherwise get any notices, as
> Mailman handles this stuff internally.
> 
> If you want to be notified of any problems whatsoever, so far as
> I know the only solution is to set your unsubscribe threshold to a
> single bounce.

Given control of the MTA configuration (as opposed to that being a provider
function) it should be easy with any MTA one is likely to be using to
configure so that a copy of a message to listname-bounces at ... ls sent to
anyone you want to annoy (preferably oneself).

If in a jurisdiction where making copies of in-transit mail is generally
illegal, one would want to find out whether it is illegal in the context of
creating a copy of a message which is bound for an agent (Mailman) that one
controls...that removes the third-party aspect and might or might not avert
the prison sentence.  (Seriously, it *can* be a touchy issue.)

  ---john



From ciradhb.forward at laposte.net  Tue Mar 15 07:55:06 2005
From: ciradhb.forward at laposte.net (HB)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:55:06 +0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Misinterpretation of Re : prefix
In-Reply-To: <PC174220050311141257073454ed1b57@msapiro>
Message-ID: <003e01c5292b$ef94dc10$4b7133c1@brouchoud9915>

> >
> >Except for Outlook which set this subject prefix to "Re : "
> (note that
> >in this case the prefix contains two tokens). Outlook express and
> >Netscape put the rigt prefix "Re: ". After some tests, it seems that
> >any one-token prefix is accepted ("XXXXX" for instance). And
> this is my
> >problem. I would like to modify the code to accept at least both
> >patterns ("Re : " and "Re: "), but I don't know where the
> decoding of
> >the subject is done. I guess it is a regexp ?
>
> As you correctly note, the contents of the Subject: is split
> into tokens. If the first token is not a command, the next is
> tried, but that's as far as it goes.
>
> The code is in Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py around line 134
>
>             if not self.subjcmdretried and args:
>                 self.subjcmdretried += 1
>                 cmd = args.pop(0)
>                 return self.do_command(cmd, args)
>

I have replaced the test with :
		if self.subjcmdretried<2 and args:

to make it try twice.
Now email subscription works with Outlook as well. Another solutions
would be to remove any ':' occurrence in the cmd param.

Shouldn't this patch be included in mailman source ?

Thanks a lot for your help.

H






From hpuiu at xentra.ro  Tue Mar 15 10:26:01 2005
From: hpuiu at xentra.ro (Puiu @ Xentra)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:26:01 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News-to-mail gateway
Message-ID: <003201c52941$040840f0$6228f754@hrenciucs>

Hi,

I have been posting this message to sf.net first, they said it
should be reported as a bug on Mailman's sf.net project. Done that
but they said it should be posted on the mailing list, so here I am :)

I have installed a news server, but one of the developers
works in a company with very strict internet policy (only 
emails, no HTTP or NNTP or anything else ), so I have
set up a mailing list for each news group and configured
them to synchronise with the news groups through mail-
to-news gateway settings in GNU mailman. The problem 
is I don't know how often the mail-to-news and news-to-
mail sync occurs. I have sent a message to one of the 
news group a hour ago and it didn't showed up on mailing 
list yet. Can this time be adjusted ? Because if
the sync time is too big the discussions would not be 
possible.

It passed 4 days from then and now I know for sure 
that messages from the news groups are not getting to the mailing list.
I have selected both mail-to-news and news-to-mail
all messages posted to the list appears on the news groups,
but nothing posted on the news-groups shows up in the mailing lists.
I am using GNU Mailman from sf.net site.

Hope I'll find a solution soon.

Regards,
Puiu Hrenciuc.

From jocke at nomell.se  Mon Mar 14 14:04:31 2005
From: jocke at nomell.se (Joakim Nomell)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:04:31 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTDIG problems
In-Reply-To: <20050314120602.GA32662@tifaware.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503121033570.17513@jajja.nomell.se>
	<20050312144457.GA10813@tifaware.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0503131749550.7643@jajja.nomell.se>
	<20050314120602.GA32662@tifaware.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503141400310.11478@jajja.nomell.se>

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005, George Theall wrote:

>>> /usr/bin/htsearch -c $prefix/archives/htdig/<listname>.conf
>>>
>>> Give it something to search for and answer "short" for the format value.
>>
>> Nothing in the webserverlog but the comandline test gave no output at all:
>
> This suggests a problem with htdig / htsearch rather than Mailman.

True, the problem seems to be that it complains about:

displayParsedFile: Can't open /var/www/html/htdig/nomatch.html

And the same thing with header.html when it gets positive hits. Don't know 
where to set that htsearch should look for these files on other locations. 
For now, i made a symlink to /usr/share/htdig where it can find all images 
and html-files related to htdig/htsearch. Now it works just fine. But if 
you have a hint where to set this so I can get rid of symlinks, it would 
be perfect =)? I bet that I forgot how I solved it the next time I need to 
reinstall the box =) Its easier to have backups of conf-files.

Thanks a lot for your help =)

-- 
___________________________________________________________________
Joakim Nomell     Phn: +46 70 771 31 00      MSN : joakim at nomell.nu
Unix engineer     Fax: +46 70 711 31 00      Web : http://nomell.se
-------------------------------------------------------------------

* When seeking love gives nothing, have found love gives all *


From lundeens at lundeens.com  Mon Mar 14 18:53:03 2005
From: lundeens at lundeens.com (Bill Lundeen)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:53:03 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] back up list
Message-ID: <002c01c528be$af8cba60$bb00a8c0@DELL>

Hi

 

I'm running a weekly newsletter using Mailman to facilitate this. I
currently have my site/list hosted through SausageHosting, but I'm loosing
confidence in them - there is NO reply to any attempt to contact them. My
concern is that I can back-up my list. Can you please help me with this?

 

Thanks,

 

Bill Lundeen

Lundeen's Tackle Castle

38752 Twilight Road

Onamia, MN 56359

320-532-3416

lundeens at lundeens.com

www.lundeens.com 

 



From tyoggev at 013.net  Mon Mar 14 20:50:14 2005
From: tyoggev at 013.net (Tamara Yoggev)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 11:50:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installing..PLEASE help
References: <001601c5280e$dbb25d80$3a884055@aish8yaygqb4pb>
	<p06200736be5b2d9c131a@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <005d01c528cf$0aa9f920$f0874155@aish8yaygqb4pb>

Thanks for your reply,

Your right I should deal with problem number 1 first, which is creating the 
sendmail.cf file. I'm trying to create this file by using the instructions 
in the mm-handler-README from the /mailman../contrib folder. Here are the 
instructions,  and what I've
done with them:


--
1. Copy mailman.mc, and make any changes you need at your site. You
    DEFINITELY need some changes. There are hostnames in there that you
    need to adjust, and chances are that you'll need to change some other
    parameters (like the host OS), too. [1]
--

I copied the mailman.mc file to /etc/mail
I changed the OS (linux-gnu), and the paths to
procmail. The mail definitions look like this:

MAILER_DEFINITIONS
####################################
###   New Mailer specifications  ###
####################################

## Special flags! See
##      http://www.sendmail.org/~ca/email/doc8.10/op-sh-5.html#sh-5.4
## Note especially the absence of the "m" and "n" flags. THIS IS
## IMPORTANT: mm-handler assumes this behavior to avoid having to know
## too much about address parsing and other RFC-2822 mail details.


Mmailman, P=/etc/mail/mm-handler, F=rDFMhlqSu, U=aishlist:root,

S=EnvFromL, R=EnvToL/HdrToL,

A=mm-handler $h $u

 aishlist is the group sendmail uses.

--
2. Install mm-handler. Because my server's sendmail-related files live
    in /etc/mail, I keep mm-handler there, too. YMMV.
--

I copied mm-handler to the same dir all my other mail
files are located: /etc/mail.

--
3. Edit mm-handler, and make any changes you need at your site. You
    probably want to change $MMWRAPPER and $MMLISTDIR at line 14, and you
    *might* want to take a look at the helpful boilerplate text beginning
    at line 64. (This text is sent whenever someone tries to send mail to
    a nonexistent list address on your mail domain.)
--

I changed the following:

 The $MMWRAPPER path is where my mailman files are located  which is
$MMWRAPPER = /home/aishlist/mailman/mail/mailman"; and the
next line to $MMLISTDIR = /home/aishlist/mailman/lists";

That's about all the changed I made to that file.
--
4. You should set up a virtusertable. (See mailman.mc for an
    explanation.) There's an example of a good, minimal virtusertable
    in this distribution. The virtusertable begins as a text file named
    "virtusertable", stored in the same directory as all the other
    Sendmail files, but it's converted to a map file for Sendmail's use.
    Install the virtusertable, and (re)make the map file. [2]
--

The virtusertable has only one entry for my mailman domain, which is:
@aishlist.com                          mailman-owner at aishlist.com
(My site is www.aishlist.com), (Remake the map file? when I run m4 doesn't 
it do that?)

--
5. You absolutely must have a mailertable, or all of this goes nowhere.
    Like virtusertable, the mailertable is a map that begins as text and
    gets converted. It's named "mailertable", and it's probably pretty
    simple. Mine looks like this:

         listtest.uchicago.edu   mailman:listtest.uchicago.edu

    This says: assign all incoming mail (that was not intercepted by the
    virtusertable) and that is in the listtest.uchicago.edu domain to the
    "mailman" mailer, and tell the "mailman" mailer that the hostname
    we're using is "listtest.uchicago.edu". You can support multiple
    virtual hosts using mm-handler just by placing corresponding lines in
    mailertable.

    Be sure to make this map, too!
--
My mailertable file is very simple:

aishlist.com           mailman:aishlist.com

As the directions say, I want mailman to handle ALL requests made to
aishlist.com.

And yes, I 'made' the files to convert mc to cf, etc..

--
6. The mailer definition (see the end of mailman.mc, or your own .mc
    file) for mm-handler sets the user/group that mm-handler will run
    under. (I use mailman:other.) Be sure that mm-handler is executable
    by this user or group. You almost certainly need the user to be the
    same as the Mailman user, and this user is almost always called
    "mailman", so you probably shouldn't change the defaults.
--

Did this as you can see from my config file above. It's
aishlist:root.

--
7. Generate your new sendmail.cf file. See the sendmail documentation if
    you're not familiar with this procedure. [1]
--

ran m4, which redid my sendmail.cf
--
8. Stop sendmail on your list server, if you haven't already. Install
    the new sendmail.cf file wherever your sendmail.cf file belongs.
    (This depends on how sendmail was compiled, but most systems support
    using /etc/sendmail.cf.)
--

I stopped sendmail as I always do by giving the command "make stop", in
which it replies:

Then restarted(make start).this is what I get again: (for some reason it 
outputs 'ATURE instead of FEATURE when really
what's written in the mailman.mc file is FEATURE)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[root at localhost mail]# make start
service sendmail start
Starting sendmail: 451 4.0.0 /etc/mail/sendmail.cf: line 7: fil
en 'ATURE(local_procmail)': No such file or directory
554 5.0.0 /etc/mail/sendmail.cf: line 8: MAILER(local): A= argu
451 4.0.0 /etc/mail/sendmail.cf: line 19: fileclass: cannot ope
ble,': No such file or directory
451 4.0.0 /etc/mail/sendmail.cf: line 21: fileclass: cannot ope
table,': No such file or directory
554 5.0.0 /etc/mail/sendmail.cf: line 23: invalid argument to V
OMAIN(aishl"
451 4.0.0 /etc/mail/sendmail.cf: line 28: fileclass: cannot ope
masquerade)': No such file or directory
554 5.0.0 /etc/mail/sendmail.cf: line 29: MASQUERADE_AS(aishlis
nt required
451 4.0.0 /etc/mail/sendmail.cf: line 32: fileclass: cannot ope
b)': No such file or directory
451 4.0.0 /etc/mail/sendmail.cf: line 35: fileclass: cannot ope
t_recipients)': No such file or directory
554 5.0.0 /etc/mail/sendmail.cf: line 38: MAILER(smtp): A= argu
554 5.0.0 /etc/mail/sendmail.cf: line 39: MAILER(procmail): A=
554 5.0.0 /etc/mail/sendmail.cf: line 42: MAILER_DEFINITIONS: A
ed
554 5.0.0 No local mailer defined
554 5.0.0 QueueDirectory (Q) option must be set
                                                           [FAI
Starting sm-client:                                        [  O
[root at localhost mail]#
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All files are already at /etc/mail so there is no need to 'install new
sendmail.cf file'.


Appriciate any further help...

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
To: "Tamara Yoggev" <tyoggev at 013.net>
Cc: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 4:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] installing..PLEASE help


> At 12:54 PM -0800 2005-03-13, Tamara Yoggev wrote:
>
>>  Starting sendmail: 451 4.0.0 /etc/mail/sendmail.cf: line 7: fileclass:
>>  cannot open 'ATURE(local_procmail)': No such file or directory
>
> This is supposed to be "FEATURE(local_procmail)".  Somehow, the leading 
> "FE" appears to have been left off, and this has almost certainly caused 
> everything else to be thrown out of what.  If you correct the use of 
> "ATURE" with "FEATURE" and re-try, you'll have a better chance of getting 
> that to work.
>
> Of course, these changes need to be made in a file like 
> /etc/mail/sendmail.mc, and then you use m4 to "compile" that into the 
> corresponding /etc/mail/sendmail.cf.  If you did this directly in 
> /etc/mail/sendmail.cf, then that would be your other problem.
>
>>  2. I've successfully created a few lists via the command line, but when 
>> I
>>  try to create a list on the web, I get this message:
>>     Error: you are not authorized to create new mailing lists.
>>     I'm using my site password (which I know I created), which is the 
>> same
>>  as list administrator password for the bottom field, and
>>    yes, I've recreated the password and tries creating the list several
>>  times. I know I have'nt misspelled anything.
>
> Not sure what to tell you.  This error should only be issued when you're 
> using an incorrect site password, as generated by mmsitepass.
>
> What's showing up in your logs?
>
>>  3. When I try to view the list properties on the web, for instance: If
>>  I created a list called 'test', and I go to 
>> www.dom.ain\mailman\admin\testI
>>  get a message: No such list: test. (and it does exist when I run the
>>  list_lists command, it's there!)
>
> You need to use forward slashes, not backslashes.  You also need to avoid 
> the use of the vertical pipe character.
>
> However, until you can get problems #1 and #2 corrected, I wouldn't be 
> surprised that you'd have additional problems like this. Go back and get 
> #1 and #2 fixed, and that may very well fix #3 as well.
>
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
>
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
>
>     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
>
>   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
> 




From CoryMCB at aol.com  Tue Mar 15 02:58:57 2005
From: CoryMCB at aol.com (CoryMCB at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 20:58:57 EST
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing list function is not working - all of a
	sudden
Message-ID: <f6.4c55a9c8.2f679b61@aol.com>

I'm really hoping that someone can address an issue I'm having with my 
mailing list.  Sometime after 3/9, e-mails sent to my mailing list are no longer 
being received.  They're stuck in cyberspace.  The list log has no record of 
e-mail sent to it after 3/9.  I know of at least 3 e-mail that were sent out to it 
after 3/9. I've sent 2 e-mails to mailman at skydivelspc.com - and haven't 
received any response.  We're using Mailman ver 2.1.5 in accordance with CPanel.

I haven't changed any settings.  It just stopped working.  I even set up a 
new mailing list, as a test, and it didn't work either.

Our business has several time-sensitive e-mails that are sent out.  We need 
this fixed asap, please.

mailing list: members at skydivelspc.com  test mailing list: 
everyone at skydivelspc.com

Thanks,
-Cory McBeth
LSPC


From rvandergrift at HostMySite.com  Tue Mar 15 06:20:13 2005
From: rvandergrift at HostMySite.com (Ross Vandegrift)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 00:20:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posts being dropped for no clear reason
Message-ID: <CDDA4FF457547646B4BD55C50675506C01846635@exchange2k3.HostMySite.com>

Hello everyone,

On our list server, one can find messages from the administrator in the
exim log:

whitman:/var/log/exim4# grep 1DB3Xc-0005bz-1W mainlog
2005-03-14 23:20:25 1DB3Xc-0005bz-1W <= smoak at capcsac.org
H=adsl-67-122-237-50.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net (capcsac.org)
[67.122.237.50] P=esmtp S=70083
id=326EA2B87756DF4C86D87B8820D3E5DF3948BB at sbserver.CAPCSAC.local
2005-03-14 23:20:26 1DB3Xc-0005bz-1W => pca-ca
<pca-ca at lists1.safesecureweb.com> R=mailman_router T=mailman_transport
2005-03-14 23:20:26 1DB3Xc-0005bz-1W Completed

And then mailman dumps it:
whitman:/var/log/mailman# grep 326EA2B87756DF4C86D87B8820D3E5DF3948BB *
vette:Mar 14 23:20:27 2005 (9981) Message discarded, msgid:
<326EA2B87756DF4C86D87B8820D3E5DF3948BB at sbserver.CAPCSAC.local>


vette is the only log that has any refence to these message IDs.
Content filtering is disabled for this list.  Why is this message being
discarded?  (In actuality, it's any post from this email address)

Also, what exactly is the vette logfile storing?  I don't understand
what this logfile represents - everything else has a pretty clear name.
Thanks for any help!

Ross



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Mar 15 10:11:53 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:11:53 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman for High Volume
	Subscription 	Mailings... and High Availability
In-Reply-To: <42366D0B.50709@forrie.com>
References: <4235D33E.8030500@forrie.com>
	<p06200744be5bbcdea6f5@[10.0.1.3]> <42366D0B.50709@forrie.com>
Message-ID: <p0620074dbe5c5689ab1e@[10.0.1.3]>

At 12:05 AM -0500 2005-03-15, Forrest Aldrich wrote:

>  I gather this, from all the searching I've done.    I've not really found
>  any useful information about scaling and high-availabilty/redundancy in
>  the FAQ or anywhere else.

	There is some scalability information in the FAQ.  Go to the FAQ 
Wizard and search for "performance".  If you want more details, 
you'll need to go to the archives of the mailing list where people 
talked about things that have been summarized in the FAQ.

	There's also been some information that's been shared privately 
-- if you find the people that have talked publicly about how they 
have gone about handling scalability or HA issues, they may be 
willing/able to share additional details with you that they have not 
made public.

>  The HA solution will very likely be solved with a stable database/backend
>  hook where we can store/retrieve Mailman's information -- standard
>  scalablity on that side will be relatively straightforward.

	There is a MySQL MemberAdapter.

>  I've not looked into the MyslqMembership hack yet.   Has anyone used this?

	I know they have, because it wouldn't exist otherwise.  However, 
I'll let the appropriate speak up for themselves.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Mar 15 10:54:03 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:54:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] back up list
In-Reply-To: <002c01c528be$af8cba60$bb00a8c0@DELL>
References: <002c01c528be$af8cba60$bb00a8c0@DELL>
Message-ID: <p0620074fbe5c5cca2244@[10.0.1.3]>

At 11:53 AM -0600 2005-03-14, Bill Lundeen wrote:

>  I'm running a weekly newsletter using Mailman to facilitate this. I
>  currently have my site/list hosted through SausageHosting, but I'm loosing
>  confidence in them - there is NO reply to any attempt to contact them. My
>  concern is that I can back-up my list. Can you please help me with this?

	With access to the command-line tools, this isn't too hard. 
However, assuming that you only have access to the web administration 
interface, this is much more difficult.  About your best bet will be 
some of the sample tools available that script the web interface.  To 
do these things See
<http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#throughtheweb>.

	See also the brand-new Mailman FAQ Wizard entry at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.053.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Mar 15 10:53:33 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:53:33 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing list function is not working
	- all of a 	sudden
In-Reply-To: <f6.4c55a9c8.2f679b61@aol.com>
References: <f6.4c55a9c8.2f679b61@aol.com>
Message-ID: <p06200750be5c5d9b536d@[10.0.1.3]>

At 8:58 PM -0500 2005-03-14, CoryMCB at aol.com wrote:

>                          We're using Mailman ver 2.1.5 in accordance
>  with CPanel.

	We may be limited in terms of the amount of support we can 
provided.  Please see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.

>  I haven't changed any settings.  It just stopped working.  I even set up a
>  new mailing list, as a test, and it didn't work either.

	Normally, we would direct you to see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>. 
However, you probably don't have command-line access to the server 
where your lists are hosted, and therefore you won't be able to look 
at any of these log files.  Unfortunately, while it is possible to 
script the web interface (see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.053.htp>), 
this doesn't help you with access to the log files.

>  Our business has several time-sensitive e-mails that are sent out.  We need
>  this fixed asap, please.

	In this case, you're pretty much completely dependant on your 
hosting company.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Mar 15 11:22:21 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:22:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Posts being dropped for no clear
 reason
In-Reply-To: <CDDA4FF457547646B4BD55C50675506C01846635@exchange2k3.HostMySite.c
	om>
References: <CDDA4FF457547646B4BD55C50675506C01846635@exchange2k3.HostMySite.c
	om>
Message-ID: <p06200751be5c61b14868@[10.0.1.3]>

At 12:20 AM -0500 2005-03-15, Ross Vandegrift wrote:

>  vette is the only log that has any refence to these message IDs.
>  Content filtering is disabled for this list.  Why is this message being
>  discarded?  (In actuality, it's any post from this email address)

	It could be that you've got spam filters defined which result in 
the discarding of these messages.  Or, you've got the list set to 
auto-discard any posting from anyone who is not a subscriber.  Or, 
the address in question could be on the "black list" of addresses 
which should be auto-discarded.

	There are a whole variety of reasons why this might happen. 
Without more details from you, it's hard to say exactly why you're 
seeing this behaviour.  As a wild guess, try going to your "Privacy 
options..." page and look at the "Sender filters" sub-page from 
there.  See if the address in question is in one of the fields 
defined.

>  Also, what exactly is the vette logfile storing?  I don't understand
>  what this logfile represents - everything else has a pretty clear name.

	It's basically all the stuff that's considered questionable in 
any way, and is either being held for further inspection by a list 
moderator, discarded due to unacceptable content, etc....  See 
meaning #2 at <http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=vetter>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Mar 15 11:24:33 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:24:33 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News-to-mail gateway
In-Reply-To: <003201c52941$040840f0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
References: <003201c52941$040840f0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
Message-ID: <p06200752be5c67f1bfa9@[10.0.1.3]>

At 11:26 AM +0200 2005-03-15, Puiu @ Xentra wrote:

>                                           The problem
>  is I don't know how often the mail-to-news and news-to-
>  mail sync occurs.

	That depends on how often you run the NewsRunner job out of cron. 
By default, that's typically every five minutes.

>                     I have sent a message to one of the
>  news group a hour ago and it didn't showed up on mailing
>  list yet.

	You may not be running the NewsRunner job, or your problem may be 
something else.  Look at your log files.

>  It passed 4 days from then and now I know for sure
>  that messages from the news groups are not getting to the mailing list.
>  I have selected both mail-to-news and news-to-mail
>  all messages posted to the list appears on the news groups,
>  but nothing posted on the news-groups shows up in the mailing lists.

	You've got to run the NewsRunner job out of cron.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From hpuiu at xentra.ro  Tue Mar 15 13:06:04 2005
From: hpuiu at xentra.ro (Puiu @ Xentra)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 14:06:04 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News-to-mail gateway
References: <003201c52941$040840f0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p06200752be5c67f1bfa9@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <005001c52957$5d7d6640$6228f754@hrenciucs>

Well since the Mailman is installed by SF.NET I don't see how can 
I see the logs, if I write them, they are sending me here :)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
To: "Puiu @ Xentra" <hpuiu at xentra.ro>
Cc: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] News-to-mail gateway


> At 11:26 AM +0200 2005-03-15, Puiu @ Xentra wrote:
> 
>>                                           The problem
>>  is I don't know how often the mail-to-news and news-to-
>>  mail sync occurs.
> 
> That depends on how often you run the NewsRunner job out of cron. 
> By default, that's typically every five minutes.
> 
>>                     I have sent a message to one of the
>>  news group a hour ago and it didn't showed up on mailing
>>  list yet.
> 
> You may not be running the NewsRunner job, or your problem may be 
> something else.  Look at your log files.
> 
>>  It passed 4 days from then and now I know for sure
>>  that messages from the news groups are not getting to the mailing list.
>>  I have selected both mail-to-news and news-to-mail
>>  all messages posted to the list appears on the news groups,
>>  but nothing posted on the news-groups shows up in the mailing lists.
> 
> You've got to run the NewsRunner job out of cron.
> 
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
> 
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
> 
>     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
> 
>   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From genevieve.buri at ec.gc.ca  Tue Mar 15 14:22:52 2005
From: genevieve.buri at ec.gc.ca (Genevieve Buri)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 13:22:52 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Undeliverable emails!
Message-ID: <4236E1AC.3090309@ec.gc.ca>

Hi everyone,

I'm currently trying to set up Mailman and I can't post to my lists.
That's what I'm getting :

There was a SMTP communication problem with the recipient's email
server.  Please contact your system administrator.
    < hostname #5.5.0 X-Unix; 69>

mailmanctl is started, I have the aliases in /etc/aliases, I did 
newaliases, I receive the confirmation when I subscribe to a list, it's 
just the posting...

I've been working on this for days, I'm kind of tired.
Thank you for your help

Genevieve Buri




From Jon.Meinecke at tekelec.com  Tue Mar 15 14:35:51 2005
From: Jon.Meinecke at tekelec.com (Meinecke, Jon)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 07:35:51 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Digest attachment double wrap
Message-ID: <4997228A4C2412468310359F8F3378D3F8DA25@DCEVS1.tekelec.com>

A mailman mailing list I subscribe to is sometimes
formatting MIME digests in such a way that Outlook
and Outlook Express think the attachments are double
wrapped.  I haven't seen this in the mailman
installation and lists I maintain and I'm not sure
why the problem only occurs on some messages.
 
The symptom from Outlook and OE is that attachments
are sometimes renamed and rewrapped as filenames
with the form ATTxxxx.eml.  This seems to be
correlated with the "boundary" parameter when it
is set similar to the following:

> MIME-version: 1.0
> Content-type: multipart/digest;
boundary="Boundary_(ID_b0cd6G2DxiroQFQetLK7uw)"

Attachments are not renamed when boundary is set to
something like:

> Content-Type: multipart/digest;
boundary="===============078110487869679446=="
> MIME-Version: 1.0

This seems to be a deficiency in the MS MIME
decoding engine, but is there a work-around for
mailman to avoid this problem?

Thanks,

Jon Meinecke



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Mar 15 14:58:41 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 14:58:41 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News-to-mail gateway
In-Reply-To: <005001c52957$5d7d6640$6228f754@hrenciucs>
References: <003201c52941$040840f0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p06200752be5c67f1bfa9@[10.0.1.3]>
	<005001c52957$5d7d6640$6228f754@hrenciucs>
Message-ID: <p06200754be5c9a4a8c62@[10.0.1.3]>

At 2:06 PM +0200 2005-03-15, Puiu @ Xentra wrote:

>  Well since the Mailman is installed by SF.NET I don't see how can I
>  see the logs, if I write them, they are sending me here :)

	Uh, no.  I sincerely doubt that SourceForge is running your copy 
of Mailman.  You may have downloaded the software from SourceForge, 
but you're almost certainly running it on a server somewhere else.

	Wherever that server is, that's where the logs are.  And that's 
where you need to be running NewsRunner out of cron.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Mar 15 15:01:58 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 15:01:58 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Undeliverable emails!
In-Reply-To: <4236E1AC.3090309@ec.gc.ca>
References: <4236E1AC.3090309@ec.gc.ca>
Message-ID: <p06200756be5c9afab59e@[10.0.1.3]>

At 1:22 PM +0000 2005-03-15, Genevieve Buri wrote:

>  I'm currently trying to set up Mailman and I can't post to my lists.

	Did you see the Mailman FAQ Wizard entry at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>?

>  That's what I'm getting :
>
>  There was a SMTP communication problem with the recipient's email
>  server.  Please contact your system administrator.
>     < hostname #5.5.0 X-Unix; 69>
>
>  mailmanctl is started, I have the aliases in /etc/aliases, I did
>  newaliases, I receive the confirmation when I subscribe to a list,
>  it's just the posting...

	There's not a whole lot of information to go on here.  Without 
additional information, we're unlikely to be able to help you. 
Please see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.023.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From theall at tifaware.com  Tue Mar 15 15:45:16 2005
From: theall at tifaware.com (George Theall)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:45:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTDIG problems
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503141400310.11478@jajja.nomell.se>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503121033570.17513@jajja.nomell.se>
	<20050312144457.GA10813@tifaware.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0503131749550.7643@jajja.nomell.se>
	<20050314120602.GA32662@tifaware.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0503141400310.11478@jajja.nomell.se>
Message-ID: <20050315144516.GA22130@tifaware.com>

On Mon, Mar 14, 2005 at 02:04:31PM +0100, Joakim Nomell wrote:

> >This suggests a problem with htdig / htsearch rather than Mailman.
> 
> True, the problem seems to be that it complains about:
> 
> displayParsedFile: Can't open /var/www/html/htdig/nomatch.html
...
> And the same thing with header.html when it gets positive hits. 

Look at <http://www.htdig.org/attrs.html#common_dir>, a compile-time
setting for htdig. 


George
-- 
theall at tifaware.com
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From sythos at sythos.net  Tue Mar 15 15:50:02 2005
From: sythos at sythos.net (Sythos)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 15:50:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News-to-mail gateway
In-Reply-To: <005001c52957$5d7d6640$6228f754@hrenciucs>
References: <003201c52941$040840f0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p06200752be5c67f1bfa9@[10.0.1.3]>
	<005001c52957$5d7d6640$6228f754@hrenciucs>
Message-ID: <20050315145002.GA3300@sythos.net>

On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 02:06:04PM +0200, Puiu @ Xentra wrote:
> Well since the Mailman is installed by SF.NET I don't see how can 
> I see the logs, if I write them, they are sending me here :)

But *where* have you installed mailman?
Do you have downloaded mailman from sf.net and installed it on your
server?

Regards
	Sythos

-- 

Sythos - http://www.sythos.net
  ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
  /\                        - against M$ attachments


From genevieve.buri at ec.gc.ca  Tue Mar 15 16:21:06 2005
From: genevieve.buri at ec.gc.ca (Genevieve Buri)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 15:21:06 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Undeliverable emails!
In-Reply-To: <p06200756be5c9afab59e@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <4236E1AC.3090309@ec.gc.ca> <p06200756be5c9afab59e@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <4236FD62.7070903@ec.gc.ca>

Hi Brad,

Thanks for you answer...

We have a Linux box with red hat on it. We use Sendmail usually, but if 
I understand it right, we could just use SMTP ? I would like that!
I have installed Mailman from the source.
Mailman is version 2.1.5.

I read the FAQ, but it's still not working.
I think it has something to do with my sendmail/smtp because I'm a 
little bit confused on what to use here! ;)

Here is the error I get from /var/log/maillog :

Mar 15 15:20:04 levoy mimedefang.pl[16563]: INFO  
HELO:atlas.cmc.ec.gc.ca IP:142.135.4.21 SENDER:<genevieve.buri at ec.gc.ca> 
HOST:atlas.cmc.ec.gc.ca
Mar 15 15:20:04 levoy sendmail[17095]: j2FFK4gO017095: 
from=<genevieve.buri at ec.gc.ca>, size=507, class=0, nrcpts=1, 
msgid=<4236FD23.3090202 at ec.gc.ca>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, 
relay=atlas.cmc.ec.gc.ca [142.135.4.21]
Mar 15 15:20:04 levoy mimedefang.pl[16563]: 
MDLOG,j2FFK4gO017095,mail_in,,,<genevieve.buri at ec.gc.ca>,<testing at levoy.cmc.ec.gc.ca>,test 
gen
Mar 15 15:20:04 levoy smrsh: uid 47: attempt to use "mailman post 
testing" (stat failed)
Mar 15 15:20:04 levoy sendmail[17097]: j2FFK4gO017095: 
to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post testing", 
ctladdr=<testing at levoy.cmc.ec.gc.ca> (47/0), delay=00:00:00, 
xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=30861, dsn=5.0.0, stat=Service unavailable
Mar 15 15:20:04 levoy sendmail[17097]: j2FFK4gO017095: j2FFK4gO017097: 
DSN: Service unavailable
Mar 15 15:20:04 levoy sendmail[17097]: j2FFK4gO017097: 
to=<genevieve.buri at ec.gc.ca>, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, 
mailer=relay, pri=31885, relay=eccmcbh.cmc.ec.gc.ca. [142.135.6.130], 
dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent ( <200503151520.j2FFK4gO017097 at levoy.cmc.ec.gc.ca> 
Queued mail for delivery)


Can you help me please?

Thank you
Genevieve




Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 1:22 PM +0000 2005-03-15, Genevieve Buri wrote:
>
>>  I'm currently trying to set up Mailman and I can't post to my lists.
>
>
>     Did you see the Mailman FAQ Wizard entry at 
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>?
>
>>  That's what I'm getting :
>>
>>  There was a SMTP communication problem with the recipient's email
>>  server.  Please contact your system administrator.
>>     < hostname #5.5.0 X-Unix; 69>
>>
>>  mailmanctl is started, I have the aliases in /etc/aliases, I did
>>  newaliases, I receive the confirmation when I subscribe to a list,
>>  it's just the posting...
>
>
>     There's not a whole lot of information to go on here.  Without 
> additional information, we're unlikely to be able to help you. Please 
> see 
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.023.htp>.
>



From mloftis at wgops.com  Tue Mar 15 16:29:11 2005
From: mloftis at wgops.com (Michael Loftis)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 08:29:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Processor total tailspin?
Message-ID: <558ABE437D6C313ED84755A6@[10.1.2.230]>

We've now had several instances where for no reason the BounceProcsssor 
runner gets totally stuck, uses all the RAM on the machine (1Gig...+1Gig 
swap) and gets the machine to a state that makes it completely worthless. 
Usually our monitoring pages us soon enough but today apparently verizon 
paging wasn't working because we got nothing until it was basically way too 
late.

We're running Mailman 2.1.5 from backports.org on debian woody (Python 2.2 
.. exact version I'll have to look up later when i get the box rebooted).

The only way to shut it down is to kill -9 the bounce processor after kill 
-9ing the controller.  Because even after a stop is isued and it shuts down 
all the other processes it'll restart the bounce processor after you kill 
-9 it and it goes right into a tailspin again until all mailman processes 
are gone.

Any hints would be great, because this is getting to be a big problem here.

--
Undocumented Features quote of the moment...
"It's not the one bullet with your name on it that you
have to worry about; it's the twenty thousand-odd rounds
labeled `occupant.'"
   --Murphy's Laws of Combat



From hpuiu at xentra.ro  Tue Mar 15 16:40:43 2005
From: hpuiu at xentra.ro (Puiu @ Xentra)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 17:40:43 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News-to-mail gateway
References: <003201c52941$040840f0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p06200752be5c67f1bfa9@[10.0.1.3]>
	<005001c52957$5d7d6640$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<20050315145002.GA3300@sythos.net>
Message-ID: <000a01c52975$5d03f4e0$6228f754@hrenciucs>

I have a opensource project hosted on sf.net
In project admin you can add mailing lists.
SF.net is using Mailman.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sythos" <sythos at sythos.net>
To: "Puiu @ Xentra" <hpuiu at xentra.ro>
Cc: "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>; <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] News-to-mail gateway


> On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 02:06:04PM +0200, Puiu @ Xentra wrote:
>> Well since the Mailman is installed by SF.NET I don't see how can 
>> I see the logs, if I write them, they are sending me here :)
> 
> But *where* have you installed mailman?
> Do you have downloaded mailman from sf.net and installed it on your
> server?
> 
> Regards
> Sythos
> 
> -- 
> 
> Sythos - http://www.sythos.net
>  ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
>  /\                        - against M$ attachments


From sythos at sythos.net  Tue Mar 15 16:44:31 2005
From: sythos at sythos.net (Sythos)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 16:44:31 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News-to-mail gateway
In-Reply-To: <000a01c52975$5d03f4e0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
References: <003201c52941$040840f0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p06200752be5c67f1bfa9@[10.0.1.3]>
	<005001c52957$5d7d6640$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<20050315145002.GA3300@sythos.net>
	<000a01c52975$5d03f4e0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
Message-ID: <20050315154431.GA4788@sythos.net>

On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 05:40:43PM +0200, Puiu @ Xentra wrote:
> I have a opensource project hosted on sf.net
> In project admin you can add mailing lists.
> SF.net is using Mailman.

NNTP ip and port is supplied from SF? (I haven't any prj on SF so I
don't know)
Are you sure if newsgroup exist and written correctly in MM conf page?
Tell about kind forwarding_option do you set in nntp<->mm conf page?

Regards
	Sythos

-- 

Sythos - http://www.sythos.net
  ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
  /\                        - against M$ attachments


From hpuiu at xentra.ro  Tue Mar 15 17:07:04 2005
From: hpuiu at xentra.ro (Puiu @ Xentra)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:07:04 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News-to-mail gateway
References: <003201c52941$040840f0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p06200752be5c67f1bfa9@[10.0.1.3]>
	<005001c52957$5d7d6640$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<20050315145002.GA3300@sythos.net>
	<000a01c52975$5d03f4e0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<20050315154431.GA4788@sythos.net>
Message-ID: <000401c52979$0824fab0$6228f754@hrenciucs>

Well, I think since mail-to-news works ok ( but not news-to-mail ) the 
server is ok.
The news server is not on sf.net, but on my own server.
Anyway, here are the settings from "Mail-News and News-Mail gateways 
Section"
within GNU Mailman :

The Internet address of the machine your News server is running on: 
news.xentra.ro
The name of the Usenet group to gateway to and/or from. 
xentra.general
Should new posts to the mailing list be sent to the newsgroup? 
YES
Should new posts to the newsgroup be sent to the mailing list? 
YES



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sythos" <sythos at sythos.net>
To: "Puiu @ Xentra" <hpuiu at xentra.ro>
Cc: "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>; <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] News-to-mail gateway


> On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 05:40:43PM +0200, Puiu @ Xentra wrote:
>> I have a opensource project hosted on sf.net
>> In project admin you can add mailing lists.
>> SF.net is using Mailman.
>
> NNTP ip and port is supplied from SF? (I haven't any prj on SF so I
> don't know)
> Are you sure if newsgroup exist and written correctly in MM conf page?
> Tell about kind forwarding_option do you set in nntp<->mm conf page?
>
> Regards
> Sythos
>
> -- 
>
> Sythos - http://www.sythos.net
>  ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
>  /\                        - against M$ attachments 



From sythos at sythos.net  Tue Mar 15 17:09:14 2005
From: sythos at sythos.net (Sythos)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 17:09:14 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News-to-mail gateway
In-Reply-To: <000401c52979$0824fab0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
References: <003201c52941$040840f0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p06200752be5c67f1bfa9@[10.0.1.3]>
	<005001c52957$5d7d6640$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<20050315145002.GA3300@sythos.net>
	<000a01c52975$5d03f4e0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<20050315154431.GA4788@sythos.net>
	<000401c52979$0824fab0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
Message-ID: <20050315160914.GA6006@sythos.net>

On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 06:07:04PM +0200, Puiu @ Xentra wrote:
> Well, I think since mail-to-news works ok ( but not news-to-mail ) the 
> server is ok.

uhm... mailinglist are moderated/only_subscriber?



> The news server is not on sf.net, but on my own server.
> Anyway, here are the settings from "Mail-News and News-Mail gateways 
> Section"
> within GNU Mailman :
> The Internet address of the machine your News server is running on: 
> news.xentra.ro
> The name of the Usenet group to gateway to and/or from. 
> xentra.general
> Should new posts to the mailing list be sent to the newsgroup? 
> YES
> Should new posts to the newsgroup be sent to the mailing list? 
> YES

check moderation options


-- 

Sythos - http://www.sythos.net
  ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
  /\                        - against M$ attachments


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Mar 15 17:06:12 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 17:06:12 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Undeliverable emails!
In-Reply-To: <4236FD62.7070903@ec.gc.ca>
References: <4236E1AC.3090309@ec.gc.ca>
	<p06200756be5c9afab59e@[10.0.1.3]> <4236FD62.7070903@ec.gc.ca>
Message-ID: <p06200758be5cb78b67b4@[10.0.1.3]>

At 3:21 PM +0000 2005-03-15, Genevieve Buri wrote:

>  We have a Linux box with red hat on it. We use Sendmail usually, but if
>  I understand it right, we could just use SMTP ? I would like that!

	Sendmail is one program that implements the SMTP protocol.  You 
could choose another program, but you would need to have something 
like sendmail in order for this to function correctly.

>  Mar 15 15:20:04 levoy smrsh: uid 47: attempt to use "mailman post testing"
>  (stat failed)

	Here's your problem.

>  Mar 15 15:20:04 levoy sendmail[17097]: j2FFK4gO017095:
>  to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post testing",
>  ctladdr=<testing at levoy.cmc.ec.gc.ca> (47/0), delay=00:00:00,
>  xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=30861, dsn=5.0.0, stat=Service unavailable

	The sendmail restricted shell (smrsh) apparently is not 
configured to allow you to send mail to the "mailman" program.  You 
need to correct this.

	However, the details of how to do this are beyond the scope of 
this mailing list.  Please see the FAQ and other documentation at 
www.sendmail.org, the documentation provided by your OS vendor 
regarding the configuration of sendmail, etc....

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Mar 15 17:08:02 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 17:08:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce Processor total tailspin?
In-Reply-To: <558ABE437D6C313ED84755A6@[10.1.2.230]>
References: <558ABE437D6C313ED84755A6@[10.1.2.230]>
Message-ID: <p06200759be5cb88ea470@[10.0.1.3]>

At 8:29 AM -0700 2005-03-15, Michael Loftis wrote:

>  We're running Mailman 2.1.5 from backports.org on debian woody (Python 2.2
>  .. exact version I'll have to look up later when i get the box rebooted).

	I can't speak for anything else, but Python 2.3 is required for 
proper use with Mailman 2.1.5.  See 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq05.008.htp>.

>  Any hints would be great, because this is getting to be a big problem here.

	As for the rest, I'm not sure what's going on.  Perhaps once 
you've replaced the version of Python on your system, the other 
errors will be cleared up, or it will become more obvious what the 
real problem is.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Mar 15 17:09:02 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 17:09:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News-to-mail gateway
In-Reply-To: <000a01c52975$5d03f4e0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
References: <003201c52941$040840f0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p06200752be5c67f1bfa9@[10.0.1.3]>
	<005001c52957$5d7d6640$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<20050315145002.GA3300@sythos.net>
	<000a01c52975$5d03f4e0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
Message-ID: <p0620075abe5cb8e9b9d5@[10.0.1.3]>

At 5:40 PM +0200 2005-03-15, Puiu @ Xentra wrote:

>  I have a opensource project hosted on sf.net
>  In project admin you can add mailing lists.
>  SF.net is using Mailman.

	Then you need to talk to the SourceForge Site Administrators. 
They run their machines, and we run ours.  Although they may be using 
our software, that is the extent of our knowledge of what they're 
doing or how.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From hpuiu at xentra.ro  Tue Mar 15 17:18:23 2005
From: hpuiu at xentra.ro (Puiu @ Xentra)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:18:23 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News-to-mail gateway
References: <003201c52941$040840f0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p06200752be5c67f1bfa9@[10.0.1.3]>
	<005001c52957$5d7d6640$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<20050315145002.GA3300@sythos.net>
	<000a01c52975$5d03f4e0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p0620075abe5cb8e9b9d5@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <001301c5297a$9cf5a3a0$6228f754@hrenciucs>

I have talked to the sf.net admins, but they sent me here :)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
To: "Puiu @ Xentra" <hpuiu at xentra.ro>
Cc: "Sythos" <sythos at sythos.net>; "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>; 
<mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] News-to-mail gateway


> At 5:40 PM +0200 2005-03-15, Puiu @ Xentra wrote:
>
>>  I have a opensource project hosted on sf.net
>>  In project admin you can add mailing lists.
>>  SF.net is using Mailman.
>
> Then you need to talk to the SourceForge Site Administrators. They run 
> their machines, and we run ours.  Although they may be using our software, 
> that is the extent of our knowledge of what they're doing or how.
>
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
>
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
>
>     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
>
>   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info. 



From hpuiu at xentra.ro  Tue Mar 15 17:21:27 2005
From: hpuiu at xentra.ro (Puiu @ Xentra)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:21:27 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News-to-mail gateway
References: <003201c52941$040840f0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p06200752be5c67f1bfa9@[10.0.1.3]>
	<005001c52957$5d7d6640$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<20050315145002.GA3300@sythos.net>
	<000a01c52975$5d03f4e0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<20050315154431.GA4788@sythos.net>
	<000401c52979$0824fab0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<20050315160914.GA6006@sythos.net>
Message-ID: <001801c5297b$0b121da0$6228f754@hrenciucs>

Other settings from GNU Mailman :

Restrict posting privilege to list members?            NO

What other settings may be of interest ?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sythos" <sythos at sythos.net>
To: "Puiu @ Xentra" <hpuiu at xentra.ro>
Cc: "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>; <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] News-to-mail gateway


> On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 06:07:04PM +0200, Puiu @ Xentra wrote:
>> Well, I think since mail-to-news works ok ( but not news-to-mail ) the 
>> server is ok.
> 
> uhm... mailinglist are moderated/only_subscriber?
> 
> 
> 
>> The news server is not on sf.net, but on my own server.
>> Anyway, here are the settings from "Mail-News and News-Mail gateways 
>> Section"
>> within GNU Mailman :
>> The Internet address of the machine your News server is running on: 
>> news.xentra.ro
>> The name of the Usenet group to gateway to and/or from. 
>> xentra.general
>> Should new posts to the mailing list be sent to the newsgroup? 
>> YES
>> Should new posts to the newsgroup be sent to the mailing list? 
>> YES
> 
> check moderation options
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Sythos - http://www.sythos.net
>  ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
>  /\                        - against M$ attachments


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 15 17:36:06 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 08:36:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Misinterpretation of Re : prefix
In-Reply-To: <003e01c5292b$ef94dc10$4b7133c1@brouchoud9915>
Message-ID: <PC174420050315083606062504d47097@msapiro>

HB wrote:
>
>I have replaced the test with :
>		if self.subjcmdretried<2 and args:
>
>to make it try twice.
>Now email subscription works with Outlook as well. Another solutions
>would be to remove any ':' occurrence in the cmd param.
>
>Shouldn't this patch be included in mailman source ?

A patch can be submitted at
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=300103

If you submit a patch, also send a note referencing it to
mailman-developers at python.org

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From zmoelnig at iem.at  Tue Mar 15 17:45:29 2005
From: zmoelnig at iem.at (IOhannes m zmoelnig)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 17:45:29 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] feature request: archives in YYYY-MM format
Message-ID: <42371129.2060605@iem.at>

hi.

is this the correct place to ask "feature requests" (i didn't dare to go 
directly to mailman-dev)

my problem is: monthly Mailman archives are ina format like "2003-February"
since my lists are rather international (and because of migration 
issues) my archives are (or: should be) in the format "2003-02"

i have submitted a patch against 2.1.5 (i am using debian-packages, so i 
didn't bothered to have the most recent version) at the sourceforge 
RFE-tracker at 
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1163610&group_id=103&atid=350103

do the developers of Mailman read these feature-requests on a regular 
  basis ?

i am very interested in getting my patch into the release (using a 
package-manager i have to be very careful to not "update" my patched 
version with a newer (and bug-fixed, btw) package.)


thanks for hints
mfg.asd.r
IOhannes


From genevieve.buri at ec.gc.ca  Tue Mar 15 18:01:12 2005
From: genevieve.buri at ec.gc.ca (Genevieve Buri)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 17:01:12 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Undeliverable emails!
In-Reply-To: <p06200758be5cb78b67b4@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <4236E1AC.3090309@ec.gc.ca> <p06200756be5c9afab59e@[10.0.1.3]>
	<4236FD62.7070903@ec.gc.ca> <p06200758be5cb78b67b4@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <423714D8.7060002@ec.gc.ca>

Hi I solved the smrsh problem...thank you very much.

BUT, now I seem to have a group problem...

Mar 15 16:38:11 levoy mimedefang.pl[17219]: INFO  
HELO:atlas.cmc.ec.gc.ca IP:142.135.4.21 SENDER:<genevieve.buri at ec.gc.ca> 
HOST:atlas.cmc.ec.gc.ca
Mar 15 16:38:11 levoy sendmail[17480]: j2FGcBuJ017480: 
from=<genevieve.buri at ec.gc.ca>, size=506, class=0, nrcpts=1, 
msgid=<42370F73.4080409 at ec.gc.ca>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, 
relay=atlas.cmc.ec.gc.ca [142.135.4.21]
Mar 15 16:38:11 levoy mimedefang.pl[17219]: 
MDLOG,j2FGcBuJ017480,mail_in,,,<genevieve.buri at ec.gc.ca>,<testing at levoy.cmc.ec.gc.ca>,fffffff
Mar 15 16:38:12 levoy Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.  
Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group 
"mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as 
group "mailnull".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as 
group "mailman", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option 
`--with-mail-gid=mailnull'.
Mar 15 16:38:12 levoy sendmail[17482]: j2FGcBuJ017480: 
to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post testing", 
ctladdr=<testing at levoy.cmc.ec.gc.ca> (47/0), delay=00:00:01, 
xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=30860, dsn=5.3.0, stat=unknown mailer 
error 2
Mar 15 16:38:12 levoy sendmail[17482]: j2FGcBuJ017480: j2FGcCuJ017482: 
DSN: unknown mailer error 2
Mar 15 16:38:12 levoy sendmail[17482]: j2FGcCuJ017482: 
to=<genevieve.buri at ec.gc.ca>, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, 
mailer=relay, pri=31884, relay=eccmcbh.cmc.ec.gc.ca. [142.135.6.130], 
dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent ( <200503151638.j2FGcCuJ017482 at levoy.cmc.ec.gc.ca> 
Queued mail for delivery)

What is that mailnull group ? I don't know where it comes from..

Genevieve

Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 3:21 PM +0000 2005-03-15, Genevieve Buri wrote:
>
>>  We have a Linux box with red hat on it. We use Sendmail usually, but if
>>  I understand it right, we could just use SMTP ? I would like that!
>
>
>     Sendmail is one program that implements the SMTP protocol.  You 
> could choose another program, but you would need to have something 
> like sendmail in order for this to function correctly.
>
>>  Mar 15 15:20:04 levoy smrsh: uid 47: attempt to use "mailman post 
>> testing"
>>  (stat failed)
>
>
>     Here's your problem.
>
>>  Mar 15 15:20:04 levoy sendmail[17097]: j2FFK4gO017095:
>>  to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post testing",
>>  ctladdr=<testing at levoy.cmc.ec.gc.ca> (47/0), delay=00:00:00,
>>  xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=30861, dsn=5.0.0, stat=Service 
>> unavailable
>
>
>     The sendmail restricted shell (smrsh) apparently is not configured 
> to allow you to send mail to the "mailman" program.  You need to 
> correct this.
>
>     However, the details of how to do this are beyond the scope of 
> this mailing list.  Please see the FAQ and other documentation at 
> www.sendmail.org, the documentation provided by your OS vendor 
> regarding the configuration of sendmail, etc....
>



From mail at christiananton.de  Tue Mar 15 18:04:21 2005
From: mail at christiananton.de (Christian Anton)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:04:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] true virtual hosting with mailman-2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <4235C1CA.7000304@christiananton.de>
References: <4235C1CA.7000304@christiananton.de>
Message-ID: <42371595.4070608@christiananton.de>

Thank you for your respond Mark, i'm attaching your Mail here 'cause you 
sent it to me personally.

I will try to take more care about the indentation when patchin the 
sourcecode again and tell you if it worked or not.

greets

Christian


Mark Sapiro wrote:



Indentation is critical in Python. You have not properly matched
indentation between the patch and the base in MailList.py. It is
safest to indent with spaces only. Mixing spaces and tabs in one file
causes problems.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan






From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 15 18:09:21 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 09:09:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Undeliverable emails!
In-Reply-To: <423714D8.7060002@ec.gc.ca>
Message-ID: <PC174420050315090921017128b42c80@msapiro>

Genevieve Buri wrote:
>
>BUT, now I seem to have a group problem...
>
<snip>
>Mar 15 16:38:12 levoy Mailman mail-wrapper: Group mismatch error.  
>Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be executed as group 
>"mailman", but the system's mail server executed the mail script as 
>group "mailnull".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as 
>group "mailman", or re-run configure,  providing the command line option 
>`--with-mail-gid=mailnull'.
<snip>
>
>What is that mailnull group ? I don't know where it comes from..

It is the group that sendmail is running as when it tries to deliver to
Mailman. It's configured in sendmail.

See the documentation of the --with-mail-gid option for configure in
the INSTALL document or at
http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node7.html

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mcn4 at leicester.ac.uk  Tue Mar 15 18:58:57 2005
From: mcn4 at leicester.ac.uk (Matthew Newton)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 17:58:57 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Official" way of altering the available admin
	options
In-Reply-To: <20050308175500.GA28404@ultra.le.ac.uk>
References: <20050308175500.GA28404@ultra.le.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20050315175857.GF26811@ultra.le.ac.uk>

Hi

Regarding the message I sent the other day...

On Tue, Mar 08, 2005 at 05:55:00PM +0000, Matthew Newton wrote:
> I'm developing a new Mailman service here, and want to be able to change
> the available list of things that a mail owner/admin can change for
> their list. Some things I can configure from mm_cfg.py, but not
> everything.
> 
<snip>
>
> If there is no standard way of doing this, I will probably look at
> writing a patch where there is a list, say mm_cfg.RESTRICT_CHANGES, that
> contains all configuration sections that should not be shown.  Is this
> a good idea?

Please find attached site_hide_list_options.patch that adds a new option
SITE_HIDE_LIST_OPTIONS. Any options given in this list will not be
displayed on the admin pages. Example:

SITE_HIDE_LIST_OPTIONS = ['owner',
                          'umbrella_list',
                          'umbrella_member_suffix']

> I would also like to hook into the subscription code to, do at least two
> things: automatically change all addresses with
> s/@le\.ac\.uk$/@leicester.ac.uk/ and to block subscription requests that
> match /@lists\.le(icester)?\.ac\.uk/ (I do not want to allow umbrella
> lists). Is there a standard way, or hook into the code, for doing this
> (on a site-wide basis, not per list)?

Secondly, the attached patch, transform_address_hook.patch, adds a new
hook into the add member routines to allow the address to be changed.
The function is given the supplied address, and should return the new
address, or raise an error. An example for my site, where all addresses
in the domain "le.ac.uk" should be changed to "leicester.ac.uk" is:

def transform_email_address(email):
    (local, domain) = email.split("@", 2)
    if domain == "le.ac.uk":
        domain = "leicester.ac.uk"
    return "@".join([local, domain])

Hope these are useful.

Thanks!

Matthew

(Please let me know if I should subscribe to the development list, and
send these patches there!)


-- 
Matthew Newton <mcn4 at le.ac.uk>

UNIX and e-mail Systems Administrator, Network Support Section,
Computer Centre, University of Leicester,
Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom
-------------- next part --------------
Index: trunk/Mailman/Defaults.py.in
===================================================================
--- trunk/Mailman/Defaults.py.in	(revision 16)
+++ trunk/Mailman/Defaults.py.in	(working copy)
@@ -109,6 +109,10 @@
 # name of the temporary file that the program should operate on.
 HTML_TO_PLAIN_TEXT_COMMAND = '/usr/bin/lynx -dump %(filename)s'
 
+# Site-wide prohibition from changing certain list options. Adding
+# an option to this list (for example, "owner") will stop the
+# option from being seen in the list admin pages.
+SITE_HIDE_LIST_OPTIONS = []
 
 
 #####
Index: trunk/Mailman/MailList.py
===================================================================
--- trunk/Mailman/MailList.py	(revision 16)
+++ trunk/Mailman/MailList.py	(working copy)
@@ -426,6 +426,18 @@
             if hasattr(gui, 'GetConfigInfo'):
                 value = gui.GetConfigInfo(self, category, subcat)
                 if value:
+                    title = None
+                    for item in value[1:]:
+                        if not isinstance(item, TupleType):
+                            if title is not None:
+                                value.remove(title)
+                            title = item
+                        if not isinstance(item, TupleType) or len(item) < 5:
+                            continue
+                        if item[0] in mm_cfg.SITE_HIDE_LIST_OPTIONS:
+                            value.remove(item)
+                        else:
+                            title = None
                     return value
 
 
-------------- next part --------------
Index: trunk/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py
===================================================================
--- trunk/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py	(revision 17)
+++ trunk/Mailman/Cgi/admin.py	(working copy)
@@ -1320,12 +1320,13 @@
         # to render the status page.
         for entry in entries:
             fullname, address = parseaddr(entry)
-            # Canonicalize the full name
-            fullname = Utils.canonstr(fullname, mlist.preferred_language)
-            userdesc = UserDesc(address, fullname,
-                                Utils.MakeRandomPassword(),
-                                digest, mlist.preferred_language)
             try:
+                address = mm_cfg.transform_email_address(address)
+                # Canonicalize the full name
+                fullname = Utils.canonstr(fullname, mlist.preferred_language)
+                userdesc = UserDesc(address, fullname,
+                                    Utils.MakeRandomPassword(),
+                                    digest, mlist.preferred_language)
                 if subscribe_or_invite:
                     if mlist.isMember(address):
                         raise Errors.MMAlreadyAMember
Index: trunk/Mailman/Defaults.py.in
===================================================================
--- trunk/Mailman/Defaults.py.in	(revision 17)
+++ trunk/Mailman/Defaults.py.in	(working copy)
@@ -114,6 +114,21 @@
 # option from being seen in the list admin pages.
 SITE_HIDE_LIST_OPTIONS = []
 
+# Helper function to transform e-mail addresses. Use, for example,
+# when the list is run on a large site such as a university, and
+# two domain names are in use, but people may not realise to
+# subscribe with their proper address.
+#
+# example:
+# transform_email_address('original at secondary.domain.name')
+# ==> original at primary.domain.name
+#
+# default is to return the same address.
+
+def transform_email_address(address):
+    return address
+
+
 
 #####
 # Virtual domains
Index: trunk/Mailman/MailList.py
===================================================================
--- trunk/Mailman/MailList.py	(revision 17)
+++ trunk/Mailman/MailList.py	(working copy)
@@ -931,6 +931,7 @@
             admin_notif = self.admin_notify_mchanges
         # Suck values out of userdesc, and apply defaults.
         email = Utils.LCDomain(userdesc.address)
+        email = mm_cfg.transform_email_address(email)
         name = getattr(userdesc, 'fullname', '')
         lang = getattr(userdesc, 'language', self.preferred_language)
         digest = getattr(userdesc, 'digest', None)

From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Mar 15 18:44:56 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:44:56 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News-to-mail gateway
In-Reply-To: <001301c5297a$9cf5a3a0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
References: <003201c52941$040840f0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p06200752be5c67f1bfa9@[10.0.1.3]>
	<005001c52957$5d7d6640$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<20050315145002.GA3300@sythos.net>
	<000a01c52975$5d03f4e0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p0620075abe5cb8e9b9d5@[10.0.1.3]>
	<001301c5297a$9cf5a3a0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
Message-ID: <p0620075cbe5ccd0d7238@[10.0.1.3]>

At 6:18 PM +0200 2005-03-15, Puiu @ Xentra wrote:

>  I have talked to the sf.net admins, but they sent me here :)

	You're talking about your bug report at 
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1161557&group_id=103&atid=100103>? 
You were confused.  You were on the page at SourceForge for the 
Mailman project, not on the page for the SourceForge Mailman mailing 
list software.

	I was the one who told you that this matter needed to be brought 
to this mailing list.

	The problem is that I didn't know you weren't hosting your own 
list, and therefore you do not have access to the log files you need. 
Only the SourceForge Site Administrators are likely to have access to 
those files.  So, you need to go back to the SourceForge Site 
Administrators and talk to them.


	Wherever you go on the SourceForge site, if it says "Project: 
Mailman" at the top, then you're in the part of the site that is used 
to provide facilities for programming languages like Python, the 
Mailman project, etc....  In particular, you are not on the pages 
that they use for their own internal support of the products that 
they use to *provide* that support, including their own 
Mailman-hosted mailing lists, etc....

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Mar 15 18:50:07 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:50:07 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] feature request: archives in YYYY-MM
 format
In-Reply-To: <42371129.2060605@iem.at>
References: <42371129.2060605@iem.at>
Message-ID: <p0620075dbe5ccfa80eb0@[10.0.1.3]>

At 5:45 PM +0100 2005-03-15, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:

>  is this the correct place to ask "feature requests" (i didn't dare to
>  go directly to mailman-dev)

	If you have a feature request, that should be filed on the 
Mailman RFE page at 
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=350103>.

>  i have submitted a patch against 2.1.5 (i am using debian-packages, so
>  i didn't bothered to have the most recent version) at the sourceforge
>  RFE-tracker at 
>http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1163610&group_id=103&atid=350103

	Patches should actually be submitted via the patch tracker at 
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=300103>.

>  do the developers of Mailman read these feature-requests on a regular basis ?

	Semi-regular, yes.

>  i am very interested in getting my patch into the release (using a
>  package-manager i have to be very careful to not "update" my patched
>  version with a newer (and bug-fixed, btw) package.)

	I can pretty much guarantee that this won't make it into the 
upcoming 2.1.6 release.  That was under development for a while, but 
with the recent security issues all further enhancement work for that 
version has been stopped, and the focus has been on getting the 
release cut as quickly as possible.

	Right now, I imagine that the hold up is translation -- Mailman 
supports a very wide variety of languages out-of-the-box, and it may 
take a while to get all the changes translated into all the supported 
languages.


	If Tokio likes your patch, there's a good chance it may be 
incorporated into a near-future version, otherwise he may have to 
develop his own code based on your idea, etc....


	Generally speaking, if all you've got is an RFE, you should post 
it on the page mentioned above, and one of the core developers will 
get to it sooner or later.

	However, if you've got a patch, you can upload that and file an 
RFE, and then talking about it on mailman-developers is likely to get 
much quicker action.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Mar 15 19:10:43 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 19:10:43 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Official" way of altering the
	available admin 	options
In-Reply-To: <20050315175857.GF26811@ultra.le.ac.uk>
References: <20050308175500.GA28404@ultra.le.ac.uk>
	<20050315175857.GF26811@ultra.le.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <p06200761be5cd5385c2d@[10.0.1.3]>

At 5:58 PM +0000 2005-03-15, Matthew Newton wrote:

>  (Please let me know if I should subscribe to the development list, and
>  send these patches there!)

	Yeah, this stuff is really more suitable for discussion on the 
development list.  You're more likely to run into more people who can 
talk to you intelligently about what works and what doesn't, why, 
programming style, etc....

	Some of the developers are also over here on mailman-users, but 
the traffic on this list is much higher and many of them don't have 
the time to try to keep up with both lists.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From genevieve.buri at ec.gc.ca  Tue Mar 15 19:22:57 2005
From: genevieve.buri at ec.gc.ca (Genevieve Buri)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:22:57 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Undeliverable emails!
In-Reply-To: <PC174420050315090921017128b42c80@msapiro>
References: <PC174420050315090921017128b42c80@msapiro>
Message-ID: <42372801.3000902@ec.gc.ca>

I reconfigured mailman with --with-mail-gid=mailman.
But it didn't do nothing, same mistake...was it mailnull ?
Because in sendmail.cf, I see :

**this is in comment**
default UID (can be username or userid:groupid)
ODefaultUser=mailnull

I'm so confused, but I feel like I'm really close to the end!!! :)

Thanks again
Genevieve


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 15 19:31:28 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:31:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Undeliverable emails!
In-Reply-To: <42372801.3000902@ec.gc.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1744200503151031280609ee5aa0bd@msapiro>

Genevieve Buri wrote:

>I reconfigured mailman with --with-mail-gid=mailman.
>But it didn't do nothing, same mistake...was it mailnull ?
>Because in sendmail.cf, I see :
>
>**this is in comment**
>default UID (can be username or userid:groupid)
>ODefaultUser=mailnull
>

If you're going to fix this by rerunning configure, you need
--with-mail-gid=mailnull to match the sendmail default.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 15 19:43:16 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:43:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Official" way of altering the available
	adminoptions
In-Reply-To: <20050315175857.GF26811@ultra.le.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <PC174420050315104316090626085f1a@msapiro>

Matthew Newton wrote:
>
>(Please let me know if I should subscribe to the development list, and
>send these patches there!)

The patches should be posted at
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=300103 and
referenced in a post to mailman-developers at python.org.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From genevieve.buri at ec.gc.ca  Tue Mar 15 19:46:53 2005
From: genevieve.buri at ec.gc.ca (Genevieve Buri)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:46:53 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Undeliverable emails!
In-Reply-To: <PC1744200503151031280609ee5aa0bd@msapiro>
References: <PC1744200503151031280609ee5aa0bd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <42372D9D.90002@ec.gc.ca>

Thank you for all your help, it worked :)



From hpuiu at xentra.ro  Tue Mar 15 20:09:54 2005
From: hpuiu at xentra.ro (Puiu @ Xentra)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 21:09:54 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News-to-mail gateway
References: <003201c52941$040840f0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p06200752be5c67f1bfa9@[10.0.1.3]>
	<005001c52957$5d7d6640$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<20050315145002.GA3300@sythos.net>
	<000a01c52975$5d03f4e0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p0620075abe5cb8e9b9d5@[10.0.1.3]>
	<001301c5297a$9cf5a3a0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p0620075cbe5ccd0d7238@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <004801c52992$96974ff0$6228f754@hrenciucs>

Trust me I have tried on sourceforge.net page BEFORE trying at Mailman 
project page, BEFORE trying mailing list :)
Take a look here at sf.net response on 11 March 2005
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1161269&group_id=1&atid=200001
They said it is Off topic, because is not their problem !!
Anyway, I have posted another support request, maybe
this time I am lucky :)

Thanks for replies.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
To: "Puiu @ Xentra" <hpuiu at xentra.ro>
Cc: "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>; "Sythos" <sythos at sythos.net>; 
<mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] News-to-mail gateway


> At 6:18 PM +0200 2005-03-15, Puiu @ Xentra wrote:
>
>>  I have talked to the sf.net admins, but they sent me here :)
>
> You're talking about your bug report at 
> <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1161557&group_id=103&atid=100103>? 
> You were confused.  You were on the page at SourceForge for the Mailman 
> project, not on the page for the SourceForge Mailman mailing list 
> software.
>
> I was the one who told you that this matter needed to be brought to this 
> mailing list.
>
> The problem is that I didn't know you weren't hosting your own list, and 
> therefore you do not have access to the log files you need. Only the 
> SourceForge Site Administrators are likely to have access to those files. 
> So, you need to go back to the SourceForge Site Administrators and talk to 
> them.
>
>
> Wherever you go on the SourceForge site, if it says "Project: Mailman" at 
> the top, then you're in the part of the site that is used to provide 
> facilities for programming languages like Python, the Mailman project, 
> etc....  In particular, you are not on the pages that they use for their 
> own internal support of the products that they use to *provide* that 
> support, including their own Mailman-hosted mailing lists, etc....
>
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
>
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
>
>     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
>
>   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info. 



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Mar 15 20:25:47 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 20:25:47 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News-to-mail gateway
In-Reply-To: <004801c52992$96974ff0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
References: <003201c52941$040840f0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p06200752be5c67f1bfa9@[10.0.1.3]>
	<005001c52957$5d7d6640$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<20050315145002.GA3300@sythos.net>
	<000a01c52975$5d03f4e0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p0620075abe5cb8e9b9d5@[10.0.1.3]>
	<001301c5297a$9cf5a3a0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p0620075cbe5ccd0d7238@[10.0.1.3]>
	<004801c52992$96974ff0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
Message-ID: <p06200762be5ce6fe86d6@[10.0.1.3]>

At 9:09 PM +0200 2005-03-15, Puiu @ Xentra wrote:

>  Trust me I have tried on sourceforge.net page BEFORE trying at Mailman
>  project page, BEFORE trying mailing list :)

	Ahh.  Sorry, I didn't realize.

>  Take a look here at sf.net response on 11 March 2005
> 
>http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1161269&group_id=1&atid=200001
>  They said it is Off topic, because is not their problem !!
>  Anyway, I have posted another support request, maybe
>  this time I am lucky :)

	I have posted a comment on this tracker.  If they have any 
questions, you can direct them to me and I will help get this issue 
straightened out.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From hpuiu at xentra.ro  Tue Mar 15 20:31:51 2005
From: hpuiu at xentra.ro (Puiu @ Xentra)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 21:31:51 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News-to-mail gateway
References: <003201c52941$040840f0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p06200752be5c67f1bfa9@[10.0.1.3]>
	<005001c52957$5d7d6640$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<20050315145002.GA3300@sythos.net>
	<000a01c52975$5d03f4e0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p0620075abe5cb8e9b9d5@[10.0.1.3]>
	<001301c5297a$9cf5a3a0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p0620075cbe5ccd0d7238@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <005a01c52995$a4151c40$6228f754@hrenciucs>

Thanks for supporting me on sourceforge.net, unfortunately
you have posted to a support request already closed so I don't think
anyone will look into it. The new support request on sf.net is :
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1163676&group_id=1&atid=200001
Maybe if you put your message there I have a chance :)

Thanks a lot,
Puiu Hrenciuc.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
To: "Puiu @ Xentra" <hpuiu at xentra.ro>
Cc: "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>; "Sythos" <sythos at sythos.net>; 
<mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] News-to-mail gateway


> At 6:18 PM +0200 2005-03-15, Puiu @ Xentra wrote:
>
>>  I have talked to the sf.net admins, but they sent me here :)
>
> You're talking about your bug report at 
> <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1161557&group_id=103&atid=100103>? 
> You were confused.  You were on the page at SourceForge for the Mailman 
> project, not on the page for the SourceForge Mailman mailing list 
> software.
>
> I was the one who told you that this matter needed to be brought to this 
> mailing list.
>
> The problem is that I didn't know you weren't hosting your own list, and 
> therefore you do not have access to the log files you need. Only the 
> SourceForge Site Administrators are likely to have access to those files. 
> So, you need to go back to the SourceForge Site Administrators and talk to 
> them.
>
>
> Wherever you go on the SourceForge site, if it says "Project: Mailman" at 
> the top, then you're in the part of the site that is used to provide 
> facilities for programming languages like Python, the Mailman project, 
> etc....  In particular, you are not on the pages that they use for their 
> own internal support of the products that they use to *provide* that 
> support, including their own Mailman-hosted mailing lists, etc....
>
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
>
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
>
>     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
>
>   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info. 



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Mar 15 20:40:26 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 20:40:26 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News-to-mail gateway
In-Reply-To: <005a01c52995$a4151c40$6228f754@hrenciucs>
References: <003201c52941$040840f0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p06200752be5c67f1bfa9@[10.0.1.3]>
	<005001c52957$5d7d6640$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<20050315145002.GA3300@sythos.net>
	<000a01c52975$5d03f4e0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p0620075abe5cb8e9b9d5@[10.0.1.3]>
	<001301c5297a$9cf5a3a0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p0620075cbe5ccd0d7238@[10.0.1.3]>
	<005a01c52995$a4151c40$6228f754@hrenciucs>
Message-ID: <p06200765be5cea945dd5@[10.0.1.3]>

At 9:31 PM +0200 2005-03-15, Puiu @ Xentra wrote:

>  Thanks for supporting me on sourceforge.net, unfortunately
>  you have posted to a support request already closed so I don't think
>  anyone will look into it.

	Oops, sorry about that.

>                             The new support request on sf.net is :
> 
>http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1163676&group_id=1&atid=200001
>  Maybe if you put your message there I have a chance :)

	Done.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 15 20:44:44 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:44:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] feature request: archives in YYYY-MM format
In-Reply-To: <42371129.2060605@iem.at>
Message-ID: <PC17442005031511444407817d3d8c39@msapiro>

IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
>
>thanks for hints

Brad already gave a detailed reply regarding posting of patches to
sourceforge.net.

I have a couple of remarks about the patch itself.

First, the diff is backwards. It shows deletions from the new version
to make the original instead of additions to the original to make the
new. This makes it difficult to apply the patch.

Also, a generally useful patch needs some explanation of what Monthly00
means. A little extra detail in Mailman/Gui/Archive.py describing this
option would go a long way.

Finally, i18n needs to be considered for both 'Monthly00' and any
additional descriptive detail.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 15 21:44:25 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 12:44:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Question
In-Reply-To: <200503151843.j2FIhhs17534@mail.value.net>
Message-ID: <PC17442005031512442504689563d7ed@msapiro>

Dwayne Phillips wrote:
>
>I have one problem, this resides on a shared machine. Any way to script it
>for a particular client?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
>Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 7:37 AM
>To: dphillips at freightmgmt.com; mailman-users at python.org
>Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Question
>
>Dwayne Phillips wrote:
>
>>Is there anyway to schedule digest emails?
>>
>>I could use a timer to send emails once a week at a particular time.

<previous response snipped>

Assuming you have access to the command line, you can do the following.

1) set digest_send_periodic the specific list's Digest options page to
No

2) make a new script by modifying cron/senddigests as follows:

--- senddigests 2005-02-06 14:27:23.968750000 -0800
+++ new_senddigests     2005-03-15 12:41:54.765625000 -0800
@@ -28,6 +28,8 @@
     --listname=listname
         Send the digest for the given list only, otherwise the digests
for all
         lists are sent out.
+        If this option is specified the list's digest_send_periodic
flag is
+        ignored.
 """

 import sys
@@ -69,6 +71,7 @@
         usage(1)

     listnames = []
+    unconditional = 0
     for opt, arg in opts:
         if opt in ('-h', '--help'):
             usage(0)
@@ -77,10 +80,12 @@

     if not listnames:
         listnames = Utils.list_names()
+    else:
+        unconditional = 1

     for listname in listnames:
         mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0)
-        if mlist.digest_send_periodic:
+        if mlist.digest_send_periodic or unconditional:
             mlist.Lock()
             try:
                 mlist.send_digest_now()

3) Set up a cron or whatever to run the command

/usr/bin/python -S $prefix/cron/new_senddigests --listname=<listname>

where /usr/bin/python may need to be adjusted, $prefix is the path to
your mailman installation and <listname> is the name of the list, on
the desired schedule.

4) You may want to set digest_size_threshhold for the list to a very
large number if you don't want any digest sends triggered by size.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hpuiu at xentra.ro  Tue Mar 15 23:50:49 2005
From: hpuiu at xentra.ro (Puiu @ Xentra)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 00:50:49 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News-to-mail gateway
References: <003201c52941$040840f0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p06200752be5c67f1bfa9@[10.0.1.3]>
	<005001c52957$5d7d6640$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<20050315145002.GA3300@sythos.net>
	<000a01c52975$5d03f4e0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p0620075abe5cb8e9b9d5@[10.0.1.3]>
	<001301c5297a$9cf5a3a0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p0620075cbe5ccd0d7238@[10.0.1.3]>
	<005a01c52995$a4151c40$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p06200765be5cea945dd5@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <001001c529b1$701e47b0$6228f754@hrenciucs>

Thanks a lot for your help, I'd be more than happy if commercial software
would have such a good support service. I'll do my best to offer support
for my project, at least as good as you are offering to Mailman users.
Anyway, after hours of work and research, guys from sf.net ( which otherwise 
is
a very good thing ) discovered the problem and the solution: "this feature
is unsupported on sf.net" :)
I'll take another approach to this problem, I'll install Mailman and INN on
a freebsd, so I'll have control with both Mailman and INN.
BTW, offtopic, what news server would you reccomend, that works
best with Mailman ?

Thanks and congratultaions for you dedication in supporting others,
Puiu Hrenciuc.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
To: "Puiu @ Xentra" <hpuiu at xentra.ro>
Cc: "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>; <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] News-to-mail gateway


> At 9:31 PM +0200 2005-03-15, Puiu @ Xentra wrote:
>
>>  Thanks for supporting me on sourceforge.net, unfortunately
>>  you have posted to a support request already closed so I don't think
>>  anyone will look into it.
>
> Oops, sorry about that.
>
>>                             The new support request on sf.net is :
>> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1163676&group_id=1&atid=200001
>>  Maybe if you put your message there I have a chance :)
>
> Done.
>
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
>
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
>
>     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
>
>   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info. 



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Mar 16 00:38:55 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 00:38:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News-to-mail gateway
In-Reply-To: <001001c529b1$701e47b0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
References: <003201c52941$040840f0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p06200752be5c67f1bfa9@[10.0.1.3]>
	<005001c52957$5d7d6640$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<20050315145002.GA3300@sythos.net>
	<000a01c52975$5d03f4e0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p0620075abe5cb8e9b9d5@[10.0.1.3]>
	<001301c5297a$9cf5a3a0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p0620075cbe5ccd0d7238@[10.0.1.3]>
	<005a01c52995$a4151c40$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p06200765be5cea945dd5@[10.0.1.3]>
	<001001c529b1$701e47b0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
Message-ID: <p06200766be5d21a946fc@[10.0.1.3]>

At 12:50 AM +0200 2005-03-16, Puiu @ Xentra wrote:

>  Thanks a lot for your help, I'd be more than happy if commercial software
>  would have such a good support service. I'll do my best to offer support
>  for my project, at least as good as you are offering to Mailman users.
>  Anyway, after hours of work and research, guys from sf.net ( which
>  otherwise is a very good thing ) discovered the problem and the solution:
>  "this feature is unsupported on sf.net" :)

	I saw that.  Sad, but true.

>  I'll take another approach to this problem, I'll install Mailman and INN on
>  a freebsd, so I'll have control with both Mailman and INN.

	That should work fine.  Another alternative would be to switch 
hosting providers, and use one that does support the mail-to-news 
gateway.  If you're interested in considering that alternative, see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.017.htp>.

>  BTW, offtopic, what news server would you reccomend, that works
>  best with Mailman ?

	INN should work fine.  For running small USENET news servers, INN 
is one of the best solutions I know of.  If you want a big and 
highly-scalable server, I'd recommend looking at Diablo.  But either 
should work fine.

>  Thanks and congratultaions for you dedication in supporting others,

	I'm sorry we weren't able to help you get a better solution.  ;(

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From Bruce.Baumgart at inl.gov  Tue Mar 15 16:25:08 2005
From: Bruce.Baumgart at inl.gov (Bruce A Baumgart)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 08:25:08 -0700
Subject: Fw: [Mailman-Users] Configuring the UI of Mailmain interface
Message-ID: <OFE46D7554.C8119E56-ON87256FC5.0053A138-87256FC5.0054B2DE@inel.gov>

Mark Shapiro wrote:

> Jessica Martin wrote:
> >

<Massive snippage>

>
> >Lastly, I want to link the images of Mailman, Python, and that Moose
image
> >(what page does it represent?) anyway I want to link these images to the
> >appropriate home pages. Possible? How?
>
>       The default value for IMAGE_LOGOS is '/icons/'.  Read the
>       comment in Defaults.py.in for details.
>

I think she wants (and so do I) to link the gnu icon to www.gnu.org, etc.
Is there any
way for that, short of modifying code?


From oliver at proctors.org  Tue Mar 15 16:37:25 2005
From: oliver at proctors.org (Oliver Dow)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:37:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: OSX mailman problem
In-Reply-To: <54f0795f88b76df171df593176b729f8@www2.proctors.org>
Message-ID: <BE5C6B65.1264A%oliver@proctors.org>

I love your mailing list which I configured through Mac OS X sever GUI.

It worked for a couple of days then it stopped working.

In the terminal (which I am not terribly profficient at) I  ran -
/usr/share/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s restart

and got the following:

www2:/Users/mailserver root# /usr/share/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s
restart
Restarting Mailman's master qrunner
PID unreadable in: /private/var/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid
[Errno 2] No such file or directory:
'/private/var/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid'
Is qrunner even running?
www2:/Users/mailserver root#

Also in the OSX mailing list logs I got this:

Mar 15 10:20:59 2005 mailmanctl(1178): PID unreadable in:
/private/var/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid
Mar 15 10:20:59 2005 mailmanctl(1178): [Errno 2] No such file or
directory: '/private/var/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid'
Mar 15 10:20:59 2005 mailmanctl(1178): Is qrunner even running?
Mar 15 10:31:46 2005 mailmanctl(1403): The master qrunner lock could
not be acquired.  It appears as though there is
a stale master qrunner lock.  Try re-running mailmanctl with the -s
flag.
Mar 15 10:31:46 2005 mailmanctl(1403):

I have restarted the server and service. I have recreated the original
mailman from scratch again - still no joy.

Please could you advise?

Thank you - Oliver Dow





From dphillips at freightmgmt.com  Tue Mar 15 19:29:39 2005
From: dphillips at freightmgmt.com (Dwayne Phillips)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:29:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Question
In-Reply-To: <PC1742200503120737250093ba636436@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20050315183553.A93911E4004@bag.python.org>

Mark

I have one problem, this resides on a shared machine. Any way to script it
for a particular client?

Thanks

:::::..::::::...:::::::....::::::::::.....:::::::::........
Reply from
Dwayne Phillips
Freight Management Inc
714.224.7906 
714.224.7956 Fax
:::::..::::::...:::::::....::::::::::.....:::::::::........



-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 7:37 AM
To: dphillips at freightmgmt.com; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Question

Dwayne Phillips wrote:

>Is there anyway to schedule digest emails?
>
>I could use a timer to send emails once a week at a particular time.

You can adjust the crontab entry to run senddigests on whatever
schedule you want (default is daily at noon).

Digests will still be sent when the accumulated size reaches
digest_size_threshhold.

If you're asking regarding an individual list rather than the site, you
would have to set digest_send_periodic to No and then send digests
through some other process. You can't use cron/senddigests directly
because it only sends digests for lists that have digest_send_periodic
set to Yes even if the list is named on the command line, but you
could look at the code to see how a digest is sent and make a simple
script to do the same thing or use bin/withlist.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.4 - Release Date: 3/7/2005
 



From jocke at nomell.se  Tue Mar 15 20:15:48 2005
From: jocke at nomell.se (Joakim Nomell)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 20:15:48 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTDIG problems
In-Reply-To: <20050315144516.GA22130@tifaware.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503121033570.17513@jajja.nomell.se>
	<20050312144457.GA10813@tifaware.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0503131749550.7643@jajja.nomell.se>
	<20050314120602.GA32662@tifaware.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.62.0503141400310.11478@jajja.nomell.se>
	<20050315144516.GA22130@tifaware.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503152013510.29601@jajja.nomell.se>

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005, George Theall wrote:

>>> This suggests a problem with htdig / htsearch rather than Mailman.
>>
>> True, the problem seems to be that it complains about:
>>
>> displayParsedFile: Can't open /var/www/html/htdig/nomatch.html
> ...
>> And the same thing with header.html when it gets positive hits.
>
> Look at <http://www.htdig.org/attrs.html#common_dir>, a compile-time
> setting for htdig.

OK great. Do you also know where the template is located, which Mailman 
(?) uses for the htsearch form in the index.html-file for each list? After 
applying the htdig patch to mailman, the form is inserted into the 
index.html file as soon as the first text arrives after the patch was 
applied. I want it to be in swedish of caurse. As is now, I need to 
translate the form on each list =)

Thanks.

-- 
___________________________________________________________________
Joakim Nomell     Phn: +46 70 771 31 00      MSN : joakim at nomell.nu
Unix engineer     Fax: +46 70 711 31 00      Web : http://nomell.se
-------------------------------------------------------------------

* When seeking love gives nothing, have found love gives all *


From andrey at icesi.edu.co  Tue Mar 15 20:47:25 2005
From: andrey at icesi.edu.co (Carlos Andrey)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 14:47:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe users without confirmation
Message-ID: <200503151951.j2FJp9ZL024688@mozart.icesi.edu.co>

Hi,

 

it would please to know me if some way exists to be able to subscribe some
user with no need to give confirmation him to mailman, something similar
since she takes control of unsubscribe, that single with him password can be
with no need unsubscribe to give him password. All this is with the mail
command.

 

Thanks 

 



From jwilliams10 at twmi.rr.com  Wed Mar 16 05:14:06 2005
From: jwilliams10 at twmi.rr.com (Jamin Williams)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 23:14:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I am stuck in Sunday.
Message-ID: <000601c529de$988308d0$36508545@jamin0>

I need some help with mailman.  It refuses to deliver any messages to the mailing lists I create.  Where can I get some help with this?  Is there a check list of things to look for or something?

Thanks,
Jamin

From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Mar 16 10:06:00 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:06:00 +0100
Subject: Fw: [Mailman-Users] Configuring the UI of Mailmain
 interface
In-Reply-To: <OFE46D7554.C8119E56-ON87256FC5.0053A138-87256FC5.0054B2DE@inel.go
	v>
References: <OFE46D7554.C8119E56-ON87256FC5.0053A138-87256FC5.0054B2DE@inel.go
	v>
Message-ID: <p0620076ebe5da74c993c@[10.0.1.3]>

At 8:25 AM -0700 2005-03-15, Bruce A Baumgart wrote:

>  I think she wants (and so do I) to link the gnu icon to www.gnu.org, etc.
>  Is there any way for that, short of modifying code?

	Try reading the INSTALL document.  It says:

     - Copy the Mailman, Python, and GNU logos to a location accessible
       to your web server.  E.g. with Apache, you've usually got an
       `icons' directory that you can drop the images into.  For
       example:

         % cp $prefix/icons/*.{jpg,png} /path/to/apache/icons

       You then want to add a line to your $prefix/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
       file which sets the base URL for the logos.  For example:

       IMAGE_LOGOS = '/images/'

       The default value for IMAGE_LOGOS is '/icons/'.  Read the
       comment in Defaults.py.in for details.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Mar 16 10:10:08 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:10:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: OSX mailman problem
In-Reply-To: <BE5C6B65.1264A%oliver@proctors.org>
References: <BE5C6B65.1264A%oliver@proctors.org>
Message-ID: <p0620076fbe5da79dac2f@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:37 AM -0500 2005-03-15, Oliver Dow wrote:

>  I love your mailing list which I configured through Mac OS X sever GUI.

	Ahh.  Please note that Apple has made a number of modifications 
to that version of Mailman, and they have not shared with us their 
changes.  Our ability to support that version of Mailman is greatly 
reduced.  Please see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp>.

>  PID unreadable in: /private/var/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid
>  [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
>  '/private/var/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid'
>  Is qrunner even running?

	Are you sure the directory path /private/var/mailman/data 
actually exists, and that it has the correct ownership and 
permissions, so that Mailman can write to it?  Perhaps you have 
another process somewhere on the system that is accidentally deleting 
some part of this directory hierarchy?

>  Mar 15 10:20:59 2005 mailmanctl(1178): PID unreadable in:
>  /private/var/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid
>  Mar 15 10:20:59 2005 mailmanctl(1178): [Errno 2] No such file or
>  directory: '/private/var/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid'
>  Mar 15 10:20:59 2005 mailmanctl(1178): Is qrunner even running?

	Right, it sent to the log the same information it gave you on the 
command-line.

>  I have restarted the server and service. I have recreated the original
>  mailman from scratch again - still no joy.

	Short of having you check the path ownership and permissions, and 
look for rogue processes on your system that may be deleting some 
part of the path or changing the ownership or permissions to 
something else, I don't know that we'll be able to provide much help.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Mar 16 10:13:23 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:13:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Question
In-Reply-To: <20050315183553.A93911E4004@bag.python.org>
References: <20050315183553.A93911E4004@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <p06200770be5da8a2e98b@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:29 AM -0800 2005-03-15, Dwayne Phillips wrote:

>  I have one problem, this resides on a shared machine. Any way to script it
>  for a particular client?

	As Mark said:

>>  If you're asking regarding an individual list rather than the site, you
>>  would have to set digest_send_periodic to No and then send digests
>>  through some other process. You can't use cron/senddigests directly
>>  because it only sends digests for lists that have digest_send_periodic
>>  set to Yes even if the list is named on the command line, but you
>>  could look at the code to see how a digest is sent and make a simple
>>  script to do the same thing or use bin/withlist.

	In this case, it sounds to me like you're going to need to get 
help from the people who run the shared machine, because there's 
going to have to be some custom Python code that is written and 
executed through a cron job of some sort.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From iane at sussex.ac.uk  Wed Mar 16 10:52:23 2005
From: iane at sussex.ac.uk (Ian Eiloart)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:52:23 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: OSX mailman problem
In-Reply-To: <p0620076fbe5da79dac2f@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <BE5C6B65.1264A%oliver@proctors.org>
	<p0620076fbe5da79dac2f@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <C5A00B49D63DCCB211675B7C@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>



--On March 16, 2005 10:10:08 +0100 Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> 
wrote:

> 	Ahh.  Please note that Apple has made a number of modifications to that
> version of Mailman, and they have not shared with us their changes.  Our
> ability to support that version of Mailman is greatly reduced.  Please
> see
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp>.
>

Really? That would contravene the GNU license, surely? The FAQ says that 
they distribute a binary of the compiled parts, but not the source. They've 
added at least one script "apple_config_list", but that _is_ source code, 
so it _is_ shared.

The FAQ also says they've created a GUI interface to help edit the config 
file. It doesn't say they've modified Mailman at all.


-- 
Ian Eiloart
Servers Team
Sussex University ITS



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Mar 16 10:57:08 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:57:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: OSX mailman problem
In-Reply-To: <C5A00B49D63DCCB211675B7C@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>
References: <BE5C6B65.1264A%oliver@proctors.org>
	<p0620076fbe5da79dac2f@[10.0.1.3]>
	<C5A00B49D63DCCB211675B7C@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <p06200772be5db31c5e16@[10.0.1.3]>

At 9:52 AM +0000 2005-03-16, Ian Eiloart wrote:

>  Really? That would contravene the GNU license, surely? The FAQ says that
>  they distribute a binary of the compiled parts, but not the source.

	My understanding is that they have made changes to the code.

>  They've added at least one script "apple_config_list", but that _is_
>  source code, so it _is_ shared.

	Where is it shared?  I haven't seen it.

>  The FAQ also says they've created a GUI interface to help edit the
>  config file. It doesn't say they've modified Mailman at all.

	Well, I wrote most of the original FAQ entry, but it's been a 
while so I'll have to go back and check what it says now.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From iane at sussex.ac.uk  Wed Mar 16 11:13:06 2005
From: iane at sussex.ac.uk (Ian Eiloart)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:13:06 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: OSX mailman problem
In-Reply-To: <p06200772be5db31c5e16@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <BE5C6B65.1264A%oliver@proctors.org>
	<p0620076fbe5da79dac2f@[10.0.1.3]>
	<C5A00B49D63DCCB211675B7C@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>
	<p06200772be5db31c5e16@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <43F07A51D34B51B3B7F1B752@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>



--On March 16, 2005 10:57:08 +0100 Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> 
wrote:

> At 9:52 AM +0000 2005-03-16, Ian Eiloart wrote:
>
>>  Really? That would contravene the GNU license, surely? The FAQ says that
>>  they distribute a binary of the compiled parts, but not the source.
>
> 	My understanding is that they have made changes to the code.
>
>>  They've added at least one script "apple_config_list", but that _is_
>>  source code, so it _is_ shared.
>
> 	Where is it shared?  I haven't seen it.

Well, the GNU license says that they have to share the source with the 
people that they distribute it to. If it's binary code, that means you have 
to distribute the source. If it's python scripts, then the executable code 
_is_ the source. I do see additions to the scripts, and the GUI is also an 
addition.  I don't see modifications, though.

One thing I can't tell is what version they've distributed. Is there a way 
to query the Mailman version from the command line?

Anyway, it would have been good for Apple to submit their changes to 
Mailman. I'm just trying to figure out whether they've contravened the GNU 
license. If they've changed the source for the compiled parts, then they 
may well have.


>>  The FAQ also says they've created a GUI interface to help edit the
>>  config file. It doesn't say they've modified Mailman at all.
>
> 	Well, I wrote most of the original FAQ entry, but it's been a while so
> I'll have to go back and check what it says now.



-- 
Ian Eiloart
Servers Team
Sussex University ITS



From nstazew1 at swarthmore.edu  Wed Mar 16 14:56:30 2005
From: nstazew1 at swarthmore.edu (Nathan K. Stazewski)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:56:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] convert text/html problem...
Message-ID: <20050316135631.075A9EF8C5@cork.its.swarthmore.edu>

First off.thank you.  Someone always replies to these questions (knock on
wood).so thanks.

 

I am running mailman 2.1.4 on OS X.  We were running into a problem that
sometimes the footer was being seen as an attachment instead of as an actual
footer.  I read these lists and found a nice work around was to convert
text/html e-mails to plain text.  I did this and now the footer is always
visible.

 

Recently a user e-mailed me to let me know that none of his e-mails are
getting through to the listserv (prior to my changes his e-mails got
through, he is a member of the list, and it wasn't getting held for
approval.it was being directly discarded).  After a while we realized his
e-mails were being discarded because of the Content filtering.  Now I set it
to forward me the e-mails instead of discarding.  My Content filtering
options are as follows.

 

-----------------------

Should Mailman filter the content of list traffic. Yes

Remove message attachments that have a. (left blank)

Remove message attachments that don't have a.  (currently it is (on separate
lines) multipart, text, message. I have had this on the default, tried
adding "text/html", etc.)

 

Should Mailman convert. Yes

Action to take. Forward

-----------------------

 

After playing with the "Remove message attachments that don't." section I
got his e-mails to come through, but now the main body is blank.  If he CCs
me, I can see the text in the CC, but the version coming through mailman is
blank except the footer.  If he sends a plaintext e-mail it comes through
fine, but shouldn't mailman be converting his html e-mails into plaintext?
Any ideas why it's not converting the html properly?  I feel like somehow
the content filtering is taking out the text/html and then trying to
convert.but it doesn't look like it should be.

 

_______________________

Nate

 



From jwt at onjapan.net  Wed Mar 16 15:14:45 2005
From: jwt at onjapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 23:14:45 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuring the UI of Mailmain interface
In-Reply-To: <OFE46D7554.C8119E56-ON87256FC5.0053A138-87256FC5.0054B2DE@inel.gov>
References: <OFE46D7554.C8119E56-ON87256FC5.0053A138-87256FC5.0054B2DE@inel.gov>
Message-ID: <168208d201795a546e4bd07785ec3558@onjapan.net>

On Mar 16, 2005, at 00:25, Bruce A Baumgart wrote:

> I think she wants (and so do I) to link the gnu icon to www.gnu.org,  
> etc.
> Is there any
> way for that, short of modifying code?

No, I believe you must modify the code (Mailman/htmlformat.py) to make  
them into live links (the way it makes the text versions live if you  
set IMAGE_LOGOS = 0).  You're right it would be more consistent if they  
were live in both the image and text versions.

I've put a small patch showing one way to do this in the patch tracker.  
  (It applies to both 2.1.5 and 2.1.6b4.)
    
<https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php? 
func=detail&aid=1164498&group_id=103&atid=300103>

-- 
Jim Tittsler             http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship          http://Starship.Python.net/
Ringo MUG Tokyo          http://www.ringo.net/rss.html



From md69 at md69.co.uk  Wed Mar 16 15:42:29 2005
From: md69 at md69.co.uk (Martin Dennett)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:42:29 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Topics
Message-ID: <423845D5.9010408@md69.co.uk>

Hi All

I'm new to this, so go easy on me!

I've searched the archives and not found what I'm looking for, so maybe 
somebody out there can explain it in terms so that I can understand ;-)

Having just moved a list over from Yahoo, I'd like to be able to still 
reach users who are set to No Email. Yahoo provided the facility for 
"Special Notices", and looking through the various options available, it 
would seem that the Topics category is what I need. However, no matter 
what I put in the "Regexp" field, I don't receive a mail with a set word 
in the subject line. My question is simple - how should the Regexp field 
be filled? I have put (on various permutations) Subject: ORG in there to 
no avail. I even added the list tag in there - still no joy.

It's driving me mad, but I'm sure that somebody out there knows the answer!

Regards

MD


From chris.a.adams at state.or.us  Wed Mar 16 17:28:06 2005
From: chris.a.adams at state.or.us (Christopher Adams)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:28:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Topics
In-Reply-To: <423845D5.9010408@md69.co.uk>
References: <423845D5.9010408@md69.co.uk>
Message-ID: <42385E96.5090906@state.or.us>

Martin,

Your REGEXP can be really simple. In the Topics section of the Admin 
page, enter some keywords for your REGEXP, , like ORG. Then, when you 
want to send a message only to those that are subscribed to the 'ORG' 
topic, include as the first line of your message, either:

Subject: ORG

OR


Keywords: ORG

Remember that a subscriber needs to be subscribed to the Topic in order 
to receive these messages. Any subscriber that is not subscribed to any 
topic will receive ALL messages.



Martin Dennett wrote:
> Hi All
> 
> I'm new to this, so go easy on me!
> 
> I've searched the archives and not found what I'm looking for, so maybe 
> somebody out there can explain it in terms so that I can understand ;-)
> 
> Having just moved a list over from Yahoo, I'd like to be able to still 
> reach users who are set to No Email. Yahoo provided the facility for 
> "Special Notices", and looking through the various options available, it 
> would seem that the Topics category is what I need. However, no matter 
> what I put in the "Regexp" field, I don't receive a mail with a set word 
> in the subject line. My question is simple - how should the Regexp field 
> be filled? I have put (on various permutations) Subject: ORG in there to 
> no avail. I even added the list tag in there - still no joy.
> 
> It's driving me mad, but I'm sure that somebody out there knows the answer!
> 
> Regards
> 
> MD
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/chris.a.adams%40state.or.us 
> 
> 
> Security Policy: 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

-- 
Christopher Adams
Library Systems Analyst
Oregon State Library
503-378-4243 258
chris.a.adams at state.or.us



From msoulier at gmail.com  Wed Mar 16 20:16:46 2005
From: msoulier at gmail.com (Michael Soulier)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:16:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing virtual hosts
Message-ID: <fb6605670503161116411c85a1@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
If I create a list under foo.host.com, and then rename the box to
bar.host.com, the list is no longer visible in the web ui when
addressed at the new hostname.

How do I move a list between virtual hosts?

Thanks,
Mike

-- 
Michael P. Soulier <msoulier at gmail.com>
http://www.digitaltorque.ca
http://opag.ca      python -c 'import this'
Jabber: msoulier at digitaltorque.ca


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Mar 16 20:30:28 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 20:30:28 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: OSX mailman problem
In-Reply-To: <43F07A51D34B51B3B7F1B752@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>
References: <BE5C6B65.1264A%oliver@proctors.org>
	<p0620076fbe5da79dac2f@[10.0.1.3]>
	<C5A00B49D63DCCB211675B7C@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>
	<p06200772be5db31c5e16@[10.0.1.3]>
	<43F07A51D34B51B3B7F1B752@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <p06200773be5e38febf23@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:13 AM +0000 2005-03-16, Ian Eiloart wrote:

>  Well, the GNU license says that they have to share the source with the
>  people that they distribute it to. If it's binary code, that means you
>  have to distribute the source. If it's python scripts, then the
>  executable code _is_ the source. I do see additions to the scripts, and
>  the GUI is also an addition.  I don't see modifications, though.

	If they've made changes to the Python code, then they're covered. 
Other than the scripts and the Python code, I don't think that there 
are any "binaries" that we ship.

>  One thing I can't tell is what version they've distributed.

	Reliable sources have informed me that it is 2.1.2.

>                                                               Is there a
>  way to query the Mailman version from the command line?

	Good question.  I don't know.

>  Anyway, it would have been good for Apple to submit their changes to
>  Mailman.

	That's certainly what we would have preferred.  I've tried 
contacting the appropriate people at Apple, and they have never 
responded.

	The word that I have from other people at Apple that I have 
talked to is that the group responsible for doing OSX Server 
development doesn't care about any support issues, and they are just 
as unresponsive to internal Apple people as they are to outsiders. 
And even less responsive to Apple customers.  ;(

>            I'm just trying to figure out whether they've contravened
>  the GNU license. If they've changed the source for the compiled parts,
>  then they may well have.

	Do we ship any compiled parts?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From dhphllps at memphis.edu  Wed Mar 16 20:59:41 2005
From: dhphllps at memphis.edu (Dan Phillips)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 13:59:41 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: OSX mailman problem
In-Reply-To: <p06200773be5e38febf23@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <BE5C6B65.1264A%oliver@proctors.org>
	<p0620076fbe5da79dac2f@[10.0.1.3]>
	<C5A00B49D63DCCB211675B7C@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>
	<p06200772be5db31c5e16@[10.0.1.3]>
	<43F07A51D34B51B3B7F1B752@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>
	<p06200773be5e38febf23@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <fa67f6f1f7154d7a515efbfff6b6d803@memphis.edu>

On Mar 16, 2005, at 1:30 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 10:13 AM +0000 2005-03-16, Ian Eiloart wrote:
>>  Is there a way to query the Mailman version from the command line?
>
> 	Good question.  I don't know.
>
>

bin/version :-)

Dan

================================
Dan Phillips
Professor of Horn, University of Memphis
webmaster: http://music.memphis.edu



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 16 21:01:07 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:01:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTDIG problems
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503152013510.29601@jajja.nomell.se>
Message-ID: <PC17442005031612010700155ffb2136@msapiro>

Joakim Nomell wrote:
>
>OK great. Do you also know where the template is located, which Mailman 
>(?) uses for the htsearch form in the index.html-file for each list? After 
>applying the htdig patch to mailman, the form is inserted into the 
>index.html file as soon as the first text arrives after the patch was 
>applied. I want it to be in swedish of caurse. As is now, I need to 
>translate the form on each list =)

>From the "Changes" section of the INSTALL.htdig-mm and
INSTALL.htdig-mm.html files installed by the patch --

+    Note: the templates in $build/templates/<lang>/for the following 
+    languages are NOT modified by this patch or by its precursor
indexing 
+    patch: ca, eu, sr, sv
+    
+    The following files in a language's default template directory
should be 
+    modified per the changes made to the en language templates after 
+    installation of this patch if that other language is used ;'
+                    
+        templates/<lang>/archidxfoot.html
+        templates/<lang>/archidxhead.html
+        templates/<lang>/archtoc.html
+        templates/<lang>/archtocentry.html
+        templates/<lang>/archtocnombox.html
+        templates/<lang>/article.html

I.e. you have to modify the Swedish (sv) templates listed above.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 16 21:05:29 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:05:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: OSX mailman problem
In-Reply-To: <p06200773be5e38febf23@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <PC1744200503161205290359cb927f64@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>	Do we ship any compiled parts?

We ship C language source for the wrappers in cgi-bin/ and mail/

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 16 21:14:11 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:14:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe users without confirmation
In-Reply-To: <200503151951.j2FJp9ZL024688@mozart.icesi.edu.co>
Message-ID: <PC1744200503161214110281815e2d64@msapiro>

Carlos Andrey wrote:
>
>it would please to know me if some way exists to be able to subscribe some
>user with no need to give confirmation him to mailman, something similar
>since she takes control of unsubscribe, that single with him password can be
>with no need unsubscribe to give him password. All this is with the mail
>command.

Set

ALLOW_OPEN_SUBSCRIBE = Yes

in mm_cfg.py. Then lists will have the option of allowing subscription
without confirmation, but this also allows 'spoofed' subscribes which
can have all sorts of nasty consequences.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 16 21:16:15 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:16:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I am stuck in Sunday.
In-Reply-To: <000601c529de$988308d0$36508545@jamin0>
Message-ID: <PC1744200503161216150593ecf58b60@msapiro>

Jamin Williams wrote:

>I need some help with mailman.  It refuses to deliver any messages to the mailing lists I create.  Where can I get some help with this?  Is there a check list of things to look for or something?
>


>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Article 3.14

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mail at christiananton.de  Wed Mar 16 21:40:21 2005
From: mail at christiananton.de (Christian Anton)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:40:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] true virtual hosting with mailman-2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <42371595.4070608@christiananton.de>
References: <4235C1CA.7000304@christiananton.de>
	<42371595.4070608@christiananton.de>
Message-ID: <423899B5.5090903@christiananton.de>


>
> Indentation is critical in Python. You have not properly matched
> indentation between the patch and the base in MailList.py. It is
> safest to indent with spaces only. Mixing spaces and tabs in one file
> causes problems.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
Hi again,

i got it installing finally, applying the patch line after line manually 
in editor. It installes everything fine, but now when i want to create a 
list "mailman" i get the following error:

ipx10995 mailman # ./bin/newlist
Name der Mailingliste: mailman
e-Mailadresse des Listenverwalters: mail at christiananton.de
Erstmaliges Passwort f?r die Liste mailman:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./bin/newlist", line 219, in ?
    main()
  File "./bin/newlist", line 160, in main
    mlist.Create(listname, owner_mail, pw)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 455, in Create
    postingaddr = '%s@%s' % (firstname, domain)
UnboundLocalError: local variable 'firstname' referenced before assignment

Over the UI i can't create a List either. I have the following in my 
mm_cfg.py:

##################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.

DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
SMTPPORT = 10025
SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 1000
MTA = 'Postfix'

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'gentix.de'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.gentix.de'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'

DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'de'
IMAGE_LOGOS = '/mailmanicons/'

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.citservice.de']

I configured a virtual host http://lists.citservice.de and i can access 
the cgi's of mailman under the URL http://lists.citservice.de/mailman/. 
When I access http://lists.citservice.de/mailman/create and want to 
create a new list 'testlist' i get an error:  Error: Unknown virtual 
host: lists.citservice.de. What am i doing wrong?


Greets

Christian
*////*


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 16 21:43:10 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:43:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] convert text/html problem...
In-Reply-To: <20050316135631.075A9EF8C5@cork.its.swarthmore.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1744200503161243100218a1df61c4@msapiro>

Nathan K. Stazewski wrote:
>
>I am running mailman 2.1.4 on OS X.  We were running into a problem that
>sometimes the footer was being seen as an attachment instead of as an actual
>footer.  I read these lists and found a nice work around was to convert
>text/html e-mails to plain text.  I did this and now the footer is always
>visible.
<snip> 
>
>After playing with the "Remove message attachments that don't." section I
>got his e-mails to come through, but now the main body is blank.  If he CCs
>me, I can see the text in the CC, but the version coming through mailman is
>blank except the footer.  If he sends a plaintext e-mail it comes through
>fine, but shouldn't mailman be converting his html e-mails into plaintext?
>Any ideas why it's not converting the html properly?  I feel like somehow
>the content filtering is taking out the text/html and then trying to
>convert.but it doesn't look like it should be.

Check your Mailman error logs for errors involving the conversion.

The default setting (don't know if this applies to OSX) for the
conversion command is:

HTML_TO_PLAIN_TEXT_COMMAND = '/usr/bin/lynx -dump %(filename)s'

Whatever this command writes to stdout is what you get. This command
probably isn't working in your environment. If that's the case, you'll
have to find something that does.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 16 21:51:17 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:51:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing virtual hosts
In-Reply-To: <fb6605670503161116411c85a1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17442005031612511707964898cb4d@msapiro>

Michael Soulier wrote:

>If I create a list under foo.host.com, and then rename the box to
>bar.host.com, the list is no longer visible in the web ui when
>addressed at the new hostname.
>
>How do I move a list between virtual hosts?


>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Article 4.29

Pay particular attention to the part about fix_url in "Existing versus
new lists".

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dhphllps at memphis.edu  Wed Mar 16 21:52:13 2005
From: dhphllps at memphis.edu (Dan Phillips)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:52:13 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] convert text/html problem...
In-Reply-To: <PC1744200503161243100218a1df61c4@msapiro>
References: <PC1744200503161243100218a1df61c4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <395f9f9d64df300b7c470eb0bdb59db1@memphis.edu>

On Mar 16, 2005, at 2:43 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> The default setting (don't know if this applies to OSX) for the
> conversion command is:
>
> HTML_TO_PLAIN_TEXT_COMMAND = '/usr/bin/lynx -dump %(filename)s'
>
> Whatever this command writes to stdout is what you get. This command
> probably isn't working in your environment. If that's the case, you'll
> have to find something that does.
>

My entry (OS X Server 10.2.8, MM 2.1.5 installed from source) is:

HTML_TO_PLAIN_TEXT_COMMAND = 'LYNX_TEMP_SPACE=/tmp /usr/local/bin/lynx 
-force_html -dump %(filename)s'

I changed it to that based on a thread on this list a couple years ago. 
I honestly don't remember know what the issue was at the time, but I 
may have had to install lynx from source. OS X 10.3 client doesn't have 
lynx installed, but I don't know about Server 10.3.

Dan



From ssingh at amnh.org  Wed Mar 16 22:12:54 2005
From: ssingh at amnh.org (Sajesh Singh)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 16:12:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing default text in rejection notice
Message-ID: <4238A156.2040203@amnh.org>

I am trying to modify the text that gets sent along with a rejection 
notice. Currently if no text is entered into the text area that has been 
designated for the rejection reason the default text ""Your message was 
deemed inappropriate by the moderator." is sent along with the rejection 
notice.

How can I change the default text ?

Mailman 2.1
Debian 3.0r2

Thank you,

Regards,

Sajesh Singh


From golson at eicc.edu  Wed Mar 16 22:48:58 2005
From: golson at eicc.edu (Olson, Gary)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 15:48:58 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting Mailman to work
Message-ID: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB8703F3E61E@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>

Please see tickets # 182498; 182558; 182775; 182793; 182925; 182931;
182998; 183073; 183090.

I can't send mail to or receive it from my Mailman lists that I have
created.

Here's the details:

I have installed Mailman 2.1.5 via RPM using Postfix as the MTA.  

-- I have modified the mm-cfg.py file  to use Postfix as the MTA
-- I've restarted Apache
-- run qrunner
-- set my aliases for two lists ("mailman" and "test")
-- set the values for DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and DEFAULT_URL_HOST in 
mm_cfg.py file (set to "test.ateec-list.org")
-- started the mailman service
-- otherwise followed the directions at
/usr/share/doc/mailman-2.1.5/INSTALL.REDHAT

I can access via my browser Mailman at all of the following:

http://test.ateec-lists.org/mailman/admin/test
http://64.40.100.147/mailman/admin/test

http://test.ateec-lists.org/mailman/admin/
http://64.40.100.147/mailman/admin/

http://test.ateec-lists.org/mailman/admin/mailman/
http://64.40.100.147/mailman/admin/mailman/


and I have been able to subscribe to the "test" list.  However I cannot
send or receive mail from the "Mailman" or "test" listserv.  When I
check the log  what I see is a lot of "connection refused (port 25)" or
"status=deferred (connect to 64.40.100.147[64.40.100.147]: Connection
refused)".

Messages sent from within the administrative area for the "test" list to
remind myself of the password have simply been queued and contain the
error message stating:

<golson at eicc.edu>: host barracuda.eicc.edu[205.221.78.150] said: 550
    <test-bounces at 64.40.100.147>: Sender address rejected: Domain not
found (in
    reply to RCPT TO command)

However I can send messages to golson at eicc.edu as member postfix when I
change the "from" heading to test.ateec-lists.org within postfix itself.

Is this perhaps that I have the permissions for Mailman set wrong?   Any
help anyone can provide will be appreciated.   Thanks!

Gary
 


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 16 22:54:38 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 13:54:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] convert text/html problem...
In-Reply-To: <395f9f9d64df300b7c470eb0bdb59db1@memphis.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17442005031613543808124865b3f2@msapiro>

Dan Phillips wrote:
>
>HTML_TO_PLAIN_TEXT_COMMAND = 'LYNX_TEMP_SPACE=/tmp /usr/local/bin/lynx 
>-force_html -dump %(filename)s'
>
>I changed it to that based on a thread on this list a couple years ago. 
>I honestly don't remember know what the issue was at the time, but I 
>may have had to install lynx from source. OS X 10.3 client doesn't have 
>lynx installed, but I don't know about Server 10.3.

The thread can be found at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2003-January/025369.html
and
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2003-January/025381.html

I believe the original issue that required the use of
LYNX_TEMP_SPACE=/tmp was a Red Hat specific change to lynx. Also, the
-force_html option also should be unnecessary as the 'filename'
created by Mailman has a .html extension, but neither of these can
hurt.

There is another issue if the HTML passed to lynx is base64 or
quoted-printable encoded. See thread at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-July/038022.html

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 16 23:03:13 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:03:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing default text in rejection notice
In-Reply-To: <4238A156.2040203@amnh.org>
Message-ID: <PC1744200503161403130093fe315f6a@msapiro>

Sajesh Singh wrote:

>I am trying to modify the text that gets sent along with a rejection 
>notice. Currently if no text is entered into the text area that has been 
>designated for the rejection reason the default text ""Your message was 
>deemed inappropriate by the moderator." is sent along with the rejection 
>notice.
>
>How can I change the default text ?

The default message is hard coded in Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py - you'd
have to change it there.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From haack at nclack.k12.or.us  Wed Mar 16 23:17:31 2005
From: haack at nclack.k12.or.us (Robert Haack)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:17:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delayed Message sending
Message-ID: <4238B07B.1000408@nclack.k12.or.us>

I have a user that sent a message to a list and the message did not go 
through right away.  I decided to look at the log files and I found the 
message below:

post:Mar 16 13:21:44 2005 (4221) post to all_sub from 
someuser at nclack.k12.or.us,
size=4209, message-id=<p05210603be5e3b95a6a8@[10.10.1.3]>, 26 failures

Can anybody tell me what the problem could be and any ideas on how to 
resolve this problem?

I'm running Fedora Core 2, with Postfix.  I do have Yum doing updates on 
a daily basis so everything should be the latest version.

Thank You

-- 
Robert Haack
Programmer Analyst
North Clackamas School District #12
haack at nclack.k12.or.us



From ftnx at ksbase.com  Thu Mar 17 01:34:51 2005
From: ftnx at ksbase.com (Not Here)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 19:34:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual domain not displayed in footer
Message-ID: <1111002107@ksbase>

I managed to change the list URL in mm_cfg.py, so it applies to ALL 
lists on the server. How do I get it to display the actual virtual 
domain the list is supposed to use?

Below is what I have now. I want to display 'www.damnspam.ca' in the 
footer on the resp list. The list name and email address come out 
correctly.

=== Cut ===
##################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'karico.ca'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.karico.ca'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
=== Cut ===


Kari Suomela

   KARICO Business Services
   Toronto, ON Canada
   http://www.karico.ca - http://www.damnspam.ca

... Don't believe everything you hear or anything you say.



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar 17 02:35:24 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 17:35:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual domain not displayed in footer
In-Reply-To: <1111002107@ksbase>
Message-ID: <PC17442005031617352403901ca60c7e@msapiro>

ftnx at ksbase.com wrote:

>I managed to change the list URL in mm_cfg.py, so it applies to ALL 
>lists on the server. How do I get it to display the actual virtual 
>domain the list is supposed to use?
>
>Below is what I have now. I want to display 'www.damnspam.ca' in the 
>footer on the resp list. The list name and email address come out 
>correctly.
>
>=== Cut ===
>##################################################
># Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'karico.ca'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.karico.ca'
>DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>=== Cut ===

It is not clear to me from the above exactly what you're trying to
accomplish. My guess is you have some lists you want to be in the
www.karico.ca domain and some in the www.damnspam.ca domain. The
e-mail domain for the www.karico.ca lists is karico.ca, and (here I'm
really guessing) the e-mail domain for the www.damnspam.ca lists is
damnspam.ca.

Assuming that's what you want, you should have the following in
mm_cfg.py. Note you don't need

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'

because you aren't changing it.

=== Cut ===
##################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'karico.ca'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.karico.ca'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
add_virtualhost('www.damnspam.ca', 'damnspam.ca')
=== Cut ===

The VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear() is to remove the entry that was set in
Defaults.py, in case it wouldn't be replaced (same url host key) by
the two above.

Then (after doing 'bin/mailmanctl restart') to pick up these changes,
for each list in the www.karico.ca domain do

bin/withlist -l -r fix_url listname

and for each list in the www.damnspam.ca domain do

bin/withlist -l -r fix_url listname --urlhost=www.damnspam.ca

See FAQ article 4.29 for more info.

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

As I said, I may not understand what you're trying to do, so this may
not be the solution.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jwt at onjapan.net  Thu Mar 17 03:35:49 2005
From: jwt at onjapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 11:35:49 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Topics
In-Reply-To: <423845D5.9010408@md69.co.uk>
References: <423845D5.9010408@md69.co.uk>
Message-ID: <8572fff7db991c559c73d545c7580d47@onjapan.net>

On Mar 16, 2005, at 23:42, Martin Dennett wrote:

> Having just moved a list over from Yahoo, I'd like to be able to still 
> reach users who are set to No Email. Yahoo provided the facility for 
> "Special Notices", and looking through the various options available, 
> it would seem that the Topics category is what I need.

Note that if someone is set to 'no mail', they will not get any list 
messages... not even those mentioning a topic they have "subscribed" 
to... so I am not sure it is useful in attaining your goal.

-- 
Jim Tittsler             http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship          http://Starship.Python.net/
Ringo MUG Tokyo          http://www.ringo.net/rss.html



From ftnx at ksbase.com  Thu Mar 17 03:31:56 2005
From: ftnx at ksbase.com (Not Here)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:31:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual domain not displayed in footer
In-Reply-To: <PC17442005031617352403901ca60c7e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1111008833@ksbase>


Wednesday March 16 2005 17:35, Mark Sapiro wrote to Kari Suomela:


 MS> It is not clear to me from the above exactly what you're trying to
 MS> accomplish. My guess is you have some lists you want to be in the
 MS> www.karico.ca domain and some in the www.damnspam.ca domain. The

You read my mind. :)

Thx,


Kari Suomela

   KARICO Business Services
   Toronto, ON Canada
   http://www.karico.ca - http://www.damnspam.ca



From joerg.wolf at reuterianer.de  Wed Mar 16 12:08:17 2005
From: joerg.wolf at reuterianer.de (Joerg Wolf)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:08:17 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] questionnaire before subscribing?
Message-ID: <20050316110734.495A51E4004@bag.python.org>

Hi, 

Is it possible to set up a mandatory questionnaire for everyone who wishes
to subscribe?

I am asking, because I want some information from those who subscribe, like
nationality, academic fields, university etc.

I have looked in the documentation, but haven't found anything on this
matter.

I'd appreciate any help. If such a questionnaire is not possible with
Mailman, could you recommend any other software which allows such a feature?

Thanks, 

Joerg





++++++++++++++++++++++
Joerg Wolf
Tietzenweg 132
12203 Berlin






From tyoggev at 013.net  Wed Mar 16 12:45:26 2005
From: tyoggev at 013.net (Tamara Yoggev)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 03:45:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sendmail and mailman problem
Message-ID: <004501c52a1d$a59523c0$098c4155@aish8yaygqb4pb>

Hi everyone,

whew! installing, and I'm at my wit's end...
I've created a new list via the command line, that worked, but I'm not getting the confirmation email.
This is what I get in my var/logs/mailog:

-----------
rewrite: excessive recursion (max 50), ruleset canonify
---------

Okay, I guess I 've got a bit of a mix-up with my aliases and settings.

so here is what I've got I'd appreciate if someone out there could help me sort this out.

1. my site is: www.aishlist.com

2. my mailertable is very simple:
aishlist.com    mailman:aishlist.com

3. my virtusertable is also very simple:
@aishlist.com  mailman-owner at aish.com

4. Here's a snip from my aliases file which may be relevant:

#mailman aliases
mailman:    postmaster
mailman-owner:    mailman

5. my local-host-names is this: (I'm not sure I need it)
xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx  #IP address 

aishlist.com

6. and in my mailman.mc file, I've defined:


VIRTUSER_DOMAIN(`aishlist.com')

MASQUERADE_AS(`aishlist.com')dnl

MASQUERADE_DOMAIN(aishlist.com)dnl


did I leave anything out?
ideas anyone?

Thanks,
Tamara


From Bruce.Baumgart at inl.gov  Wed Mar 16 15:37:45 2005
From: Bruce.Baumgart at inl.gov (Bruce A Baumgart)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 07:37:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configuring the UI of Mailmain interface
In-Reply-To: <168208d201795a546e4bd07785ec3558@onjapan.net>
Message-ID: <OF22D04272.5D82AC57-ON87256FC6.004EF312-87256FC6.00505C59@inel.gov>


Jim Tittsler <jwt at onjapan.net> wrote on 03/16/2005 07:14:45 AM:

<SNIPAGE THROUGHOUT>

> On Mar 16, 2005, at 00:25, Bruce A Baumgart wrote:
>
> > I think she wants (and so do I) to link the gnu icon to www.gnu.org,
> > etc.


>   You're right it would be more consistent if they
> were live in both the image and text versions.
>

Thanks, just what I need.  In fact, on python.org, they say of their logo "
The logo should be linked to the Python web site".

--
Bruce Baumgart
Bruce.Baumgart at inel.gov
208-526-9318

From chris at systemlabs.co.uk  Wed Mar 16 16:33:53 2005
From: chris at systemlabs.co.uk (Chris Matthews)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 15:33:53 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems integrating with Apache
Message-ID: <200503161533.53850.chris@systemlabs.co.uk>

Hi all.  Hope this is not too dumb a question.  I have installed mailman on my 
Debian server.  Using Postfix and Apache.

I created the site-wide mailing list using my user (catman) as the list 
administrator ID

I even got the mail saying that the list had been created.  The link to manage 
the lists though, gives me error 404

I *do* have the following line in httpd.conf and APache has been restarted 
several times since.
ScriptAlias  /mailman/       /usr/local/mailan/cgi-bin/

Obviously I have mis-configured something, can someone give me a clue as to 
what idiocy I have perpetrated?

fwiw the link I was mailed is:
http://1st4u.net/mailman/admin/mailman

TIA
-- 
Chris Matthews
Systemlabs Ltd
01279 865585
07855 823629


From jean at scmbb.ulb.ac.be  Wed Mar 16 21:56:07 2005
From: jean at scmbb.ulb.ac.be (Richelle Jean)
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:56:07 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] loss of messages with  text attachment
Message-ID: <b2166cadfbefab0b4b077b3acbf4d1fe@scmbb.ulb.ac.be>

Dear all,

The messages sent to our local mailman lists never arrive to the list 
members if they have any kind of attachment even text/plain.  But the 
messages with text/plain attachments appear in the archive. The other 
messages appear in the archive only after using unshunt.

The configuration of Content filtering is to enable filtering and 
remove message attachments that does not match multipart/mixed, 
text/plain .
Is there any other settings elsewhere that interfere with handling 
message having attachments ?

Thank you any help or hint,

Jean

--
Jean Richelle <jean at amaze.ulb.ac.be>
The aMAZE Project                                         Tel: +32 (0)2 
650 3587
SCMBB - ULB, Campus Plaine (BC, C6.114)                   FAX: +32 (0)2 
650 5425
bd du Triomphe - CP263, B-1050 Bruxelles, Belgium



From jocke at nomell.se  Thu Mar 17 09:23:19 2005
From: jocke at nomell.se (Joakim Nomell)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 09:23:19 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Replying from the web interface
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503170921350.1846@jajja.nomell.se>

Hi all. I have a few moderated users on one of my lists. Sometimes when 
discarding a message I want to type in a reason why. I guess the mail has 
list-owner at domain as sender. Is it posible to set the sender on bcc so we 
get a copy of the reply to the listowners so all of us can see what has 
happend?

Thanks in advance.

-- 
___________________________________________________________________
Joakim Nomell     Phn: +46 70 771 31 00      MSN : joakim at nomell.nu
Unix engineer     Fax: +46 70 711 31 00      Web : http://nomell.se
-------------------------------------------------------------------

* When seeking love gives nothing, have found love gives all *


From iane at sussex.ac.uk  Thu Mar 17 14:09:23 2005
From: iane at sussex.ac.uk (Ian Eiloart)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 13:09:23 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: OSX mailman problem
In-Reply-To: <fa67f6f1f7154d7a515efbfff6b6d803@memphis.edu>
References: <BE5C6B65.1264A%oliver@proctors.org>
	<p0620076fbe5da79dac2f@[10.0.1.3]>
	<C5A00B49D63DCCB211675B7C@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>
	<p06200772be5db31c5e16@[10.0.1.3]>
	<43F07A51D34B51B3B7F1B752@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>
	<p06200773be5e38febf23@[10.0.1.3]>
	<fa67f6f1f7154d7a515efbfff6b6d803@memphis.edu>
Message-ID: <2147483647.1111064963@[192.168.1.13]>



--On Wednesday, March 16, 2005 1:59 pm -0600 Dan Phillips 
<dhphllps at memphis.edu> wrote:

> On Mar 16, 2005, at 1:30 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:
>> At 10:13 AM +0000 2005-03-16, Ian Eiloart wrote:
>>>  Is there a way to query the Mailman version from the command line?
>>
>> 	Good question.  I don't know.
>>
>>
>
> bin/version :-)
>
> Dan
>

doh!

So, yes 2.1.2 is the current version on MacOSX 10.3:

[chip:/usr/share/mailman] iane% bin/version
Using Mailman version: 2.1.2


-- 
Ian Eiloart
Servers Team
Sussex University ITS



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Mar 17 14:38:18 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:38:18 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] questionnaire before subscribing?
In-Reply-To: <20050316110734.495A51E4004@bag.python.org>
References: <20050316110734.495A51E4004@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <p0620078abe5f38729eb6@[10.0.1.3]>

At 12:08 PM +0100 2005-03-16, Joerg Wolf wrote:

>  Is it possible to set up a mandatory questionnaire for everyone who wishes
>  to subscribe?

	I'm not aware of anything.  It's a feature I'd like to see, too.

>  I'd appreciate any help. If such a questionnaire is not possible with
>  Mailman, could you recommend any other software which allows such a feature?

	I'm not personally familiar with anything.  If you find 
something, please let us know -- we might be able to borrow some 
feature concepts from them.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar 17 15:52:54 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 06:52:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems integrating with Apache
In-Reply-To: <200503161533.53850.chris@systemlabs.co.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1744200503170652540453797bd79b@msapiro>

Chris Matthews wrote:
>
>I even got the mail saying that the list had been created.  The link to manage 
>the lists though, gives me error 404

It works for me

>fwiw the link I was mailed is:
>http://1st4u.net/mailman/admin/mailman

The above takes me to the list admin authorization (enter password)
page as it should. All of the following give the expected results.

http://1st4u.net/mailman/listinfo/mailman
http://1st4u.net/mailman/admin
http://1st4u.net/mailman/listinfo

http://1st4u.net/mailman/ gives me a forbidden error. If you want you
can make this go to the listinfo overview with

RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$ http://1st4u.net/mailman/listinfo

in your Apache configuration.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar 17 16:02:08 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 07:02:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] loss of messages with  text attachment
In-Reply-To: <b2166cadfbefab0b4b077b3acbf4d1fe@scmbb.ulb.ac.be>
Message-ID: <PC174420050317070208020304086913@msapiro>

Richelle Jean wrote:
>
>The messages sent to our local mailman lists never arrive to the list 
>members if they have any kind of attachment even text/plain.  But the 
>messages with text/plain attachments appear in the archive. The other 
>messages appear in the archive only after using unshunt.

There should be messages in Mailman's 'error' log relating to the
shunted messages.

>The configuration of Content filtering is to enable filtering and 
>remove message attachments that does not match multipart/mixed, 
>text/plain .
>Is there any other settings elsewhere that interfere with handling 
>message having attachments ?

See
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-January/042239.html
and the references therein regarding content filtering.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ssingh at amnh.org  Thu Mar 17 17:49:59 2005
From: ssingh at amnh.org (Sajesh Singh)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 11:49:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing default text in rejection notice
In-Reply-To: <PC1744200503161403130093fe315f6a@msapiro>
References: <PC1744200503161403130093fe315f6a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4239B537.1010503@amnh.org>


Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Sajesh Singh wrote:
> 
> 
>>I am trying to modify the text that gets sent along with a rejection 
>>notice. Currently if no text is entered into the text area that has been 
>>designated for the rejection reason the default text ""Your message was 
>>deemed inappropriate by the moderator." is sent along with the rejection 
>>notice.
>>
>>How can I change the default text ?
> 
> 
> The default message is hard coded in Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py - you'd
> have to change it there.
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 

Strangest thing. I left mailman alone last night and when I can in this 
morning and ran another test without making any other configuration 
changes it worked. Could it be that one of the nightly cron jobs is 
running a command that I need to run after making changes to the .py files ?

Regardss,

Sajesh


From mcmorran at mdibl.org  Thu Mar 17 19:43:59 2005
From: mcmorran at mdibl.org (Roy McMorran)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 13:43:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachment Handling
Message-ID: <4239CFEF.8030502@mdibl.org>

Just built and now testing Mailman 2.1.5.  It appears that Mailman 
removes attachments from digests, and puts a link to the archived 
attachment in its place with the notation  "A non-text attachment was 
scrubbed...".  But can I get the same behavior for non-digested messages?

Thanks,

-- 
Roy McMorran
Systems Administrator
MDI Biological Laboratory
Salisbury Cove, ME




From eppinette at ulm.edu  Thu Mar 17 19:51:38 2005
From: eppinette at ulm.edu (Chance Eppinette)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 12:51:38 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe errors
Message-ID: <20050317184548.616DA126B2@smtp.ulm.edu>

Hello,
I am using Mailman v. 2.1.5 on Solaris for about 1 month now.
I have a list that we populate via a mass subscription file.
However, there are 4 addresses that I can't remove now:

:nsmith at mail.tec.la.us
email:sbsit at bayou.com
missy.adams at g77j@statefarm.com
showt:brwnsuga at aol.com

As you can see they all have invalid characters or syntax, specifically the
colon.
I can't get these to remove from the list either through the GUI nor from
the command line.

Any suggestions.

Chance Eppinette
Technology Support Manager
ULM Computing Center
eppinette at ulm.edu
318-342-5021 (phone)
318-342-5018 (fax)


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 18 04:04:07 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 19:04:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unsubscribe errors
In-Reply-To: <20050317184548.616DA126B2@smtp.ulm.edu>
Message-ID: <PC174420050317190407087534bced72@msapiro>

Chance Eppinette wrote:
>
>I am using Mailman v. 2.1.5 on Solaris for about 1 month now.
>I have a list that we populate via a mass subscription file.
>However, there are 4 addresses that I can't remove now:
>
>:nsmith at mail.tec.la.us
>email:sbsit at bayou.com
>missy.adams at g77j@statefarm.com
>showt:brwnsuga at aol.com
>
>As you can see they all have invalid characters or syntax, specifically the
>colon.
>I can't get these to remove from the list either through the GUI nor from
>the command line.


Have you tried the method described in the FAQ at
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.013.htp

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 18 05:36:56 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 20:36:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Attachment Handling
In-Reply-To: <4239CFEF.8030502@mdibl.org>
Message-ID: <PC1744200503172036560640938e4718@msapiro>

Roy McMorran wrote

>Just built and now testing Mailman 2.1.5.  It appears that Mailman 
>removes attachments from digests, and puts a link to the archived 
>attachment in its place with the notation  "A non-text attachment was 
>scrubbed...".  But can I get the same behavior for non-digested messages?

This is done for plain text digests because the MIME structure required
for attachments to a specific message can't be included in a plain
text digest in any way that works.

It is not done for individual messages or MIME format digests, because
in these cases the MIME structure of the message can be preserved and
attachments will come through as attachments.

There is no way to invoke Scrubber for MIME digests or individual
messages without altering code. If you wanted to do this, you could
look at how Mailman.Handlers.Scrubber.process() is invoked in
Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py and invoke it perhaps in
Mailman/Handlers/MimeDel.py or some other handler for individual
messages.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 18 05:56:45 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 20:56:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing default text in rejection notice
In-Reply-To: <4239B537.1010503@amnh.org>
Message-ID: <PC1744200503172056450093ca9c140a@msapiro>

Sajesh Singh wrote:
>
>Strangest thing. I left mailman alone last night and when I can in this 
>morning and ran another test without making any other configuration 
>changes it worked. Could it be that one of the nightly cron jobs is 
>running a command that I need to run after making changes to the .py files ?


Not exactly. When the qrunners are started by the master mailmanctl
process, they import (and cache) all the mailman modules they use.
Thus, whenever you make changes to any *.py modules, you need to do

bin/mailmanctl restart

to make sure that the changed modules will get recompiled and reloaded
into all processes. If the changed module had not been recompiled, it
is quite likely that a cron job referenced it and forced the
recompile, but I'm not sure whether this in itself would have caused
it to be reloaded into the cache of the qrunner processes or if some
other event triggered it.

The answer is as I said above. Any time you change any *.py files, do

bin/mailmanctl restart

when you're done.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 18 06:36:29 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 21:36:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Replying from the web interface
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0503170921350.1846@jajja.nomell.se>
Message-ID: <PC1744200503172136290109f937f50a@msapiro>

Joakim Nomell wrote:

>Hi all. I have a few moderated users on one of my lists. Sometimes when 
>discarding a message I want to type in a reason why. I guess the mail has 
>list-owner at domain as sender. Is it posible to set the sender on bcc so we 
>get a copy of the reply to the listowners so all of us can see what has 
>happend?

Actually, the reject message is sent from the <listname>-bounces at ...
address, but that's not really relevant to your issue.

As I understand it, you want the reject notice to Bcc: the
<listname>-owner at ... address so all the owners can see the reject
message. It is not possible to do this without modifying code.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 18 06:55:15 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 21:55:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] true virtual hosting with mailman-2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <423899B5.5090903@christiananton.de>
Message-ID: <PC17442005031721551505628f443ae1@msapiro>

Christian Anton wrote:
>
>i got it installing finally, applying the patch line after line manually 
>in editor. It installes everything fine, but now when i want to create a 
>list "mailman" i get the following error:
>
>ipx10995 mailman # ./bin/newlist
>Name der Mailingliste: mailman
>e-Mailadresse des Listenverwalters: mail at christiananton.de
>Erstmaliges Passwort f?r die Liste mailman:
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "./bin/newlist", line 219, in ?
>    main()
>  File "./bin/newlist", line 160, in main
>    mlist.Create(listname, owner_mail, pw)
>  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 455, in Create
>    postingaddr = '%s@%s' % (firstname, domain)
>UnboundLocalError: local variable 'firstname' referenced before assignment

The error occurs in a patched line indicating a problem with the patch.
The submitter of the patch has made some recent changes (yesterday). I
suggest you go back to
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=943827&group_id=103&atid=300103
and follow the link in the recent comment to the latest 2.1.4 patch
and use that as a starting point.

>Over the UI i can't create a List either. I have the following in my 
>mm_cfg.py:
>
>##################################################
># Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
>
>DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
>SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
>SMTPPORT = 10025
>SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 1000
>MTA = 'Postfix'
>
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'gentix.de'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.gentix.de'
>DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
>
>DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'de'
>IMAGE_LOGOS = '/mailmanicons/'
>
>POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.citservice.de']
>
>I configured a virtual host http://lists.citservice.de and i can access 
>the cgi's of mailman under the URL http://lists.citservice.de/mailman/. 
>When I access http://lists.citservice.de/mailman/create and want to 
>create a new list 'testlist' i get an error:  Error: Unknown virtual 
>host: lists.citservice.de. What am i doing wrong?

DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'

is not needed in mm_cfg.py because it doesn't change the default from
Defaults.py. However, you need all of the following in mm_cfg.py after
the DEFAULT_URL_HOST line.

VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
add_virtualhost('lists.citservice.de', 'citservice.de')

assuming that citservice.de is the correct e-mail host to go with
lists.citservice.de. Also, the POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS should be
['citservice.de'] unless the e-mail host really is
'lists.citservice.de' in which case the second add_virtualhost()
should be

add_virtualhost('lists.citservice.de', 'lists.citservice.de')

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jean at scmbb.ulb.ac.be  Fri Mar 18 08:51:06 2005
From: jean at scmbb.ulb.ac.be (Richelle Jean)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:51:06 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] loss of messages with  text attachment
In-Reply-To: <PC174420050317070208020304086913@msapiro>
References: <PC174420050317070208020304086913@msapiro>
Message-ID: <e6a7e811758b7ae09f7022fe70255944@scmbb.ulb.ac.be>

Thank you for your help !

Le 17 mars 05, ? 16:02, Mark Sapiro a ?crit :

> Richelle Jean wrote:
>>
>> The messages sent to our local mailman lists never arrive to the list
>> members if they have any kind of attachment even text/plain.  But the
>> messages with text/plain attachments appear in the archive. The other
>> messages appear in the archive only after using unshunt.
>
> There should be messages in Mailman's 'error' log relating to the
> shunted messages.

Unfortunately there is nothing in the error log concerning the messages 
that are not transmitted to the list members but appear in the 
archives.

>
>> The configuration of Content filtering is to enable filtering and
>> remove message attachments that does not match multipart/mixed,
>> text/plain .
>> Is there any other settings elsewhere that interfere with handling
>> message having attachments ?
>
> See
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-January/042239.html
> and the references therein regarding content filtering.

 From the references you are giving, I conclude that it is only in the 
"Content filtering" section that there are settings for how attachments 
are handled.

--
Jean Richelle <jean at amaze.ulb.ac.be>
The aMAZE Project                                         Tel: +32 (0)2 
650 3587
SCMBB - ULB, Campus Plaine (BC, C6.114)                   FAX: +32 (0)2 
650 5425
bd du Triomphe - CP263, B-1050 Bruxelles, Belgium



From hpuiu at xentra.ro  Fri Mar 18 12:10:31 2005
From: hpuiu at xentra.ro (Puiu @ Xentra)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:10:31 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News-to-mail gateway
References: <003201c52941$040840f0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p06200752be5c67f1bfa9@[10.0.1.3]>
	<005001c52957$5d7d6640$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<20050315145002.GA3300@sythos.net>
	<000a01c52975$5d03f4e0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p0620075abe5cb8e9b9d5@[10.0.1.3]>
	<001301c5297a$9cf5a3a0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p0620075cbe5ccd0d7238@[10.0.1.3]>
	<005a01c52995$a4151c40$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p06200765be5cea945dd5@[10.0.1.3]>
	<001001c529b1$701e47b0$6228f754@hrenciucs>
	<p06200766be5d21a946fc@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <00cb01c52bab$1ba705e0$6228f754@hrenciucs>

Just wanted to thank again to Brad for his support.
I have finished installing Mailman and INN and everything works like a charm 
now.
Great work guys.

Regards,
Puiu Hrenciuc.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
To: "Puiu @ Xentra" <hpuiu at xentra.ro>
Cc: "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>; <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 1:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] News-to-mail gateway


> At 12:50 AM +0200 2005-03-16, Puiu @ Xentra wrote:
>
>>  Thanks a lot for your help, I'd be more than happy if commercial 
>> software
>>  would have such a good support service. I'll do my best to offer support
>>  for my project, at least as good as you are offering to Mailman users.
>>  Anyway, after hours of work and research, guys from sf.net ( which
>>  otherwise is a very good thing ) discovered the problem and the 
>> solution:
>>  "this feature is unsupported on sf.net" :)
>
> I saw that.  Sad, but true.
>
>>  I'll take another approach to this problem, I'll install Mailman and INN 
>> on
>>  a freebsd, so I'll have control with both Mailman and INN.
>
> That should work fine.  Another alternative would be to switch hosting 
> providers, and use one that does support the mail-to-news gateway.  If 
> you're interested in considering that alternative, see 
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.017.htp>.
>
>>  BTW, offtopic, what news server would you reccomend, that works
>>  best with Mailman ?
>
> INN should work fine.  For running small USENET news servers, INN is one 
> of the best solutions I know of.  If you want a big and highly-scalable 
> server, I'd recommend looking at Diablo.  But either should work fine.
>
>>  Thanks and congratultaions for you dedication in supporting others,
>
> I'm sorry we weren't able to help you get a better solution.  ;(
>
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
>
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
>
>     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
>
>   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info. 



From mail at christiananton.de  Fri Mar 18 15:40:27 2005
From: mail at christiananton.de (Christian Anton)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 15:40:27 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] true virtual hosting with mailman-2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <PC17442005031721551505628f443ae1@msapiro>
References: <PC17442005031721551505628f443ae1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <423AE85B.6040609@christiananton.de>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>>Over the UI i can't create a List either. I have the following in my 
>>mm_cfg.py:
>>
>>##################################################
>># Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
>>
>>DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
>>SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
>>SMTPPORT = 10025
>>SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 1000
>>MTA = 'Postfix'
>>
>>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'gentix.de'
>>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.gentix.de'
>>DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
>>
>>DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'de'
>>IMAGE_LOGOS = '/mailmanicons/'
>>
>>POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.citservice.de']
>>
>>I configured a virtual host http://lists.citservice.de and i can access 
>>the cgi's of mailman under the URL http://lists.citservice.de/mailman/. 
>>When I access http://lists.citservice.de/mailman/create and want to 
>>create a new list 'testlist' i get an error:  Error: Unknown virtual 
>>host: lists.citservice.de. What am i doing wrong?
>>    
>>
>
>DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
>
>is not needed in mm_cfg.py because it doesn't change the default from
>Defaults.py. However, you need all of the following in mm_cfg.py after
>the DEFAULT_URL_HOST line.
>
>VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
>add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>add_virtualhost('lists.citservice.de', 'citservice.de')
>
>assuming that citservice.de is the correct e-mail host to go with
>lists.citservice.de. Also, the POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS should be
>['citservice.de'] unless the e-mail host really is
>'lists.citservice.de' in which case the second add_virtualhost()
>should be
>
>add_virtualhost('lists.citservice.de', 'lists.citservice.de')
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
>  
>
I updated my config as follows:

DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
SMTPPORT = 10025
SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 1000
MTA = 'Postfix'

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'gentix.de'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.gentix.de'

VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
add_virtualhost('lists.citservice.de', 'lists.citservice.de')

DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'de'
IMAGE_LOGOS = '/mailmanicons/'

POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['lists.citservice.de']

I really want to use 'lists.citservice.de' as email host. Adding a new 
list with the shell command
'newlist liste2 at lists.citservice.de' creates a new list, very fine. I 
get the message from mailman that my new list is created. But the 
automatically created virtual_mailman file is wrong format:

liste2-lists.citservice.de at lists.citservice.de              
liste2-lists.citservice.de
liste2-lists.citservice.de-admin at lists.citservice.de        
liste2-lists.citservice.de-admin
liste2-lists.citservice.de-bounces at lists.citservice.de      
liste2-lists.citservice.de-bounces
liste2-lists.citservice.de-confirm at lists.citservice.de      
liste2-lists.citservice.de-confirm
liste2-lists.citservice.de-join at lists.citservice.de         
liste2-lists.citservice.de-join
liste2-lists.citservice.de-leave at lists.citservice.de        
liste2-lists.citservice.de-leave
liste2-lists.citservice.de-owner at lists.citservice.de        
liste2-lists.citservice.de-owner
liste2-lists.citservice.de-request at lists.citservice.de      
liste2-lists.citservice.de-request
liste2-lists.citservice.de-subscribe at lists.citservice.de    
liste2-lists.citservice.de-subscribe
liste2-lists.citservice.de-unsubscribe at lists.citservice.de  
liste2-lists.citservice.de-unsubscribe

when it would have to be
liste2 at lists.citservice.de  liste2-lists.citservice.de
liste2-admin at lists.citservice.de  liste2-lists.citservice.de-admin

Can you tell me what i didn't understand?

Thank you very much


Christian


From mail at christiananton.de  Fri Mar 18 15:42:12 2005
From: mail at christiananton.de (Christian Anton)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 15:42:12 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] true virtual hosting with mailman-2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <PC17442005031721551505628f443ae1@msapiro>
References: <PC17442005031721551505628f443ae1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <423AE8C4.2010504@christiananton.de>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Christian Anton wrote:
>  
>
>>i got it installing finally, applying the patch line after line manually 
>>in editor. It installes everything fine, but now when i want to create a 
>>list "mailman" i get the following error:
>>
>>ipx10995 mailman # ./bin/newlist
>>Name der Mailingliste: mailman
>>e-Mailadresse des Listenverwalters: mail at christiananton.de
>>Erstmaliges Passwort f?r die Liste mailman:
>>Traceback (most recent call last):
>> File "./bin/newlist", line 219, in ?
>>   main()
>> File "./bin/newlist", line 160, in main
>>   mlist.Create(listname, owner_mail, pw)
>> File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 455, in Create
>>   postingaddr = '%s@%s' % (firstname, domain)
>>UnboundLocalError: local variable 'firstname' referenced before assignment
>>    
>>
>
>The error occurs in a patched line indicating a problem with the patch.
>The submitter of the patch has made some recent changes (yesterday). I
>suggest you go back to
>http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=943827&group_id=103&atid=300103
>and follow the link in the recent comment to the latest 2.1.4 patch
>and use that as a starting point.
>
>  
>
this part is working fine now. I got the new patch, the patch's author 
sent it to me.

Thank you!

Christian


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 18 17:13:18 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 08:13:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] true virtual hosting with mailman-2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <423AE85B.6040609@christiananton.de>
Message-ID: <PC174420050318081318039003626fb8@msapiro>

Christian Anton wrote:
>
>Adding a new 
>list with the shell command
>'newlist liste2 at lists.citservice.de' creates a new list, very fine. I 
>get the message from mailman that my new list is created. But the 
>automatically created virtual_mailman file is wrong format:
>
>liste2-lists.citservice.de at lists.citservice.de              
>liste2-lists.citservice.de
>liste2-lists.citservice.de-admin at lists.citservice.de        
>liste2-lists.citservice.de-admin
>liste2-lists.citservice.de-bounces at lists.citservice.de      
>liste2-lists.citservice.de-bounces
>liste2-lists.citservice.de-confirm at lists.citservice.de      
>liste2-lists.citservice.de-confirm
>liste2-lists.citservice.de-join at lists.citservice.de         
>liste2-lists.citservice.de-join
>liste2-lists.citservice.de-leave at lists.citservice.de        
>liste2-lists.citservice.de-leave
>liste2-lists.citservice.de-owner at lists.citservice.de        
>liste2-lists.citservice.de-owner
>liste2-lists.citservice.de-request at lists.citservice.de      
>liste2-lists.citservice.de-request
>liste2-lists.citservice.de-subscribe at lists.citservice.de    
>liste2-lists.citservice.de-subscribe
>liste2-lists.citservice.de-unsubscribe at lists.citservice.de  
>liste2-lists.citservice.de-unsubscribe
>
>when it would have to be
>liste2 at lists.citservice.de  liste2-lists.citservice.de
>liste2-admin at lists.citservice.de  liste2-lists.citservice.de-admin
>
>Can you tell me what i didn't understand?

Standard unpatched Mailman supports virtual hosts but with the
restriction that two lists on two different hosts cannot have the same
name.

The patch you installed attempts to overcome this restriction by
appending the domain name to the list name in order to create a unique
name for all lists.

It does look like there is an issue with the generated aliases created
when this patch is used. This issue would have to be discussed with
the originator of the patch.

Note that if you are willing to accept the "unique naming" restriction,
you can use Mailman in a virtual hosting environment without patching.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 18 18:23:45 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 09:23:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting Mailman to work
In-Reply-To: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB8703F3E61E@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
Message-ID: <PC17442005031809234506566ed3ad3d@msapiro>

Olson, Gary wrote:

<snip>
>
>Messages sent from within the administrative area for the "test" list to
>remind myself of the password have simply been queued and contain the
>error message stating:
>
><golson at eicc.edu>: host barracuda.eicc.edu[205.221.78.150] said: 550
>    <test-bounces at 64.40.100.147>: Sender address rejected: Domain not
>found (in
>    reply to RCPT TO command)
>
>However I can send messages to golson at eicc.edu as member postfix when I
>change the "from" heading to test.ateec-lists.org within postfix itself.
>
>Is this perhaps that I have the permissions for Mailman set wrong?   Any
>help anyone can provide will be appreciated.   Thanks!

It looks to me like a Postfix configuration problem, i.e. Mailman is
sending the mail as it should and Postfix is not accepting it because
it doesn't like the sender <test-bounces at 64.40.100.147>.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 18 18:29:13 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 09:29:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delayed Message sending
In-Reply-To: <4238B07B.1000408@nclack.k12.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC1744200503180929130109b5408bba@msapiro>

Robert Haack wrote:

>I have a user that sent a message to a list and the message did not go 
>through right away.  I decided to look at the log files and I found the 
>message below:
>
>post:Mar 16 13:21:44 2005 (4221) post to all_sub from 
>someuser at nclack.k12.or.us,
>size=4209, message-id=<p05210603be5e3b95a6a8@[10.10.1.3]>, 26 failures
>
>Can anybody tell me what the problem could be and any ideas on how to 
>resolve this problem?

Mailman is telling you that it's attempt to deliver the post via SMTP
to your outgoing MTA failed for 26 of the messages recipients which
may be all or only part.

You may find more in the 'smtp-failure' log at the same time. Also look
in the MTA logs.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From golson at eicc.edu  Fri Mar 18 18:41:54 2005
From: golson at eicc.edu (Olson, Gary)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:41:54 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting Mailman to work
Message-ID: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB8703F3E63B@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>

 Yes, it was a Postfix config problem.  I needed to change the
mynetworks (needed both localhost and the ip of server), myorigin,
mydestination, mydomain, and myhostname variables in the main.cf file
for Postfix.  Part of the problem was also with the DNS MX for the
server.  Changing these variables was not mentioned in the
Readme.Postfix file that is included with a Mailman install.  I don't
know if this problem was unique to my situation or if this is a common
problem.  

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 11:24 AM
To: Olson, Gary; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Getting Mailman to work

Olson, Gary wrote:

<snip>
>
>Messages sent from within the administrative area for the "test" list 
>to remind myself of the password have simply been queued and contain 
>the error message stating:
>
><golson at eicc.edu>: host barracuda.eicc.edu[205.221.78.150] said: 550
>    <test-bounces at 64.40.100.147>: Sender address rejected: Domain not 
>found (in
>    reply to RCPT TO command)
>
>However I can send messages to golson at eicc.edu as member postfix when I

>change the "from" heading to test.ateec-lists.org within postfix
itself.
>
>Is this perhaps that I have the permissions for Mailman set wrong?
Any
>help anyone can provide will be appreciated.   Thanks!

It looks to me like a Postfix configuration problem, i.e. Mailman is
sending the mail as it should and Postfix is not accepting it because it
doesn't like the sender <test-bounces at 64.40.100.147>.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Mar 18 18:56:32 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 09:56:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] loss of messages with  text attachment
In-Reply-To: <e6a7e811758b7ae09f7022fe70255944@scmbb.ulb.ac.be>
Message-ID: <PC174420050318095632065619ee1a50@msapiro>

Richelle Jean wrote:
>
> From the references you are giving, I conclude that it is only in the 
>"Content filtering" section that there are settings for how attachments 
>are handled.

Basically, yes.

There are mm_cfg.py settings for ARCHIVE_SCRUBBER and
ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER which allow an alternative "scrubber" for the
archives and control how HTML parts are handled in the archives, but
the only settings that affect how attachments are handled in messages
delivered to the list are the content filtering setting.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From heather at madrone.com  Fri Mar 18 23:27:36 2005
From: heather at madrone.com (Heather Madrone)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 14:27:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce runner day of year out of range error
Message-ID: <p06210208be6102b83497@[192.168.123.100]>

Hello.

I'm running Mailman 2.1.5 on Mac OSX 10.2.8 using Python 2.4 and exim
4.42.  I have the bounce threshold set to 3.0, but Mailman only rarely manages
to disable accounts that have been bouncing solidly for weeks.

Before I set up Mailman on my own server, I was running it through an ISP.
During the several years I ran Mailman on that site, I only had a handful of
bouncers disabled.  I thought that was suspicious at the time, but it wasn't my
server, and so I couldn't get in under the hood.

I've been watching the exim traffic.  About 20 addresses have been failing
solidly for the past 3 weeks, but Mailman has only disabled 8 of them.  Every
few days, I get the following message:

	Traceback (most recent call last):
	  File "/Applications/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
	    main()
 	 File "/Applications/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
 	   qrunner.run()
	  File "/Applications/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 87, in run
 	   self._cleanup()
 	 File "/Applications/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 220, in _cleanup
	    BounceMixin._cleanup(self)
	  File "/Applications/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 132, in _cleanup
 	   self._register_bounces()
	  File "/Applications/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 120, in _register_bounces
	    mlist.registerBounce(addr, msg, day=day)
	  File "/Applications/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py", line 131, in registerBounce
	    time.strftime('%d-%b-%Y', day + (0,)*6))
	ValueError: day of year out of range

Auditing the bounce log, I can see that this error causes the bounce score of bouncers
to be reset.

Has anyone seen anything like this?  I've checked the FAQ and the sourceforge bug
page, and even gone Googling looking for this problem.  So far, I've turned up nothing.

-- 
Thank you,

Heather Madrone <heather at madrone.com>
http://www.madrone.com


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar 19 00:43:18 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 15:43:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce runner day of year out of range error
In-Reply-To: <p06210208be6102b83497@[192.168.123.100]>
Message-ID: <PC174420050318154318060929171673@msapiro>

Heather Madrone wrote:
>
>I'm running Mailman 2.1.5 on Mac OSX 10.2.8 using Python 2.4 and exim
>4.42.  I have the bounce threshold set to 3.0, but Mailman only rarely manages
>to disable accounts that have been bouncing solidly for weeks.
>
<snip>
>
>I've been watching the exim traffic.  About 20 addresses have been failing
>solidly for the past 3 weeks, but Mailman has only disabled 8 of them.  Every
>few days, I get the following message:
>
>	Traceback (most recent call last):
>	  File "/Applications/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
>	    main()
> 	 File "/Applications/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
> 	   qrunner.run()
>	  File "/Applications/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 87, in run
> 	   self._cleanup()
> 	 File "/Applications/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 220, in _cleanup
>	    BounceMixin._cleanup(self)
>	  File "/Applications/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 132, in _cleanup
> 	   self._register_bounces()
>	  File "/Applications/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 120, in _register_bounces
>	    mlist.registerBounce(addr, msg, day=day)
>	  File "/Applications/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py", line 131, in registerBounce
>	    time.strftime('%d-%b-%Y', day + (0,)*6))
>	ValueError: day of year out of range

I don't know what causes this error beyond the immediately obvious
ValueError, but I have an idea about bouncing users not being disabled.

Bounce processing was changed in 2.1.5. From the NEWS file -

    - The bounce processor has been redesigned so that now when an
      address's bounce score reaches the threshold, that address will be
      sent a probe message.  Only if the probe bounces will the address
      be disabled.  The score is reset to zero when the probe is sent.
      Also, bounce events are now kept in an event file instead of in
      memory.  This should help contain the bloat of the BounceRunner.

      New supporting variables in Defaults.py: VERP_PROBE_FORMAT,
      VERP_PROBE_REGEXP

Check the 'bounce' log. The sending of a probe is logged. The question
is are probes being sent for all 20 or so addresses? If so, the
underlying problem may be that the VERP like probe address is not
being properly preserved and returned to the bounce processor when the
probe bounces.

If it turns out that this is the problem, I'm not sure what you can do
in 2.1.5, but 2.1.6 (in late beta) makes bounce probes optional and
off by default.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jwt at onjapan.net  Sat Mar 19 05:26:43 2005
From: jwt at onjapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 13:26:43 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce runner day of year out of range error
In-Reply-To: <p06210208be6102b83497@[192.168.123.100]>
References: <p06210208be6102b83497@[192.168.123.100]>
Message-ID: <2e9f295e3ea506610d6c11fd42e3e0cc@onjapan.net>

On Mar 19, 2005, at 07:27, Heather Madrone wrote:

> I'm running Mailman 2.1.5 on Mac OSX 10.2.8 using Python 2.4 and exim
> [...]
> 	  File "/Applications/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py", line 131, in 
> registerBounce
> 	    time.strftime('%d-%b-%Y', day + (0,)*6))
> 	ValueError: day of year out of range

This error occurs because Python 2.4's strftime() checks its arguments 
more strictly than earlier versions.

Three options are:
   1) switch to the 2.1.6beta versions, where this has already been fixed
   2) change line 131 of Bouncer.py to be:
                    time.strftime('%d-%b-%Y', day + (0,0,0,0,1,0)))
   3) use Python 2.3

-- 
Jim Tittsler             http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship          http://Starship.Python.net/
Ringo MUG Tokyo          http://www.ringo.net/rss.html



From michaelanderson at okcu.edu  Sat Mar 19 19:17:31 2005
From: michaelanderson at okcu.edu (Michael Anderson)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 12:17:31 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Major admin problems
Message-ID: <BE61C8DB.17C0F%michaelanderson@okcu.edu>

Hi all,

I am new to this list. I have been using Mailman 2.0.13 for over a year to
deliver a mailing list to about 1200 subscribers.

Something has gone wrong and I don't know enough about Linux to fix it, so I
am hoping someone would be willing to give me a hand.

Here are the symptoms..

1. Regular mail is not being delivered.

2. Digests are being delivered.

3. Any message sent to the list address doesn't seem to bounce, but it
doesn't go out to regular subscribers.... Digest users do get the messages.

4. The archives have disappeared. There are no files in the archive
directories, but it takes time to get a ls -al from that directory.

The systems admin who is NOT a unix expert thinks the drive is seriously
corrupted. So, I need to pull off the subscriber list and rebuild the drive.
It is configured with Linux SuSe which has a nice webmin browser interface
that I have been able to use to administrate certain things. This has been
helpful for me since I don't know much unix.

Can anyone help me? I am in the process of moving everyone over to digest
mode so that I can send them all a message explaining the problem.. Is there
a way to do that easily? Right now I am going through all the screens in the
Membership Management area clicking digest on every name. Its taking
forever.. Is there an easier, more global way?

Thanks in advance for all the help.

Michael Anderson
http://tpin.okcu.org - Trumpet Players' International Network.



From madduck at madduck.net  Sat Mar 19 22:48:35 2005
From: madduck at madduck.net (martin f krafft)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 22:48:35 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] content filtering not working as expected
Message-ID: <20050319214835.GA1630@localhost.localdomain>

I have a 2.1.5 installation, and one list is using the following
content_filter options:

  filter_content = True
  filter_mime_types = ''

  pass_mime_types = """multipart
  text
  application/pgp-signature
  application/pdf"""

  convert_html_to_plaintext = True
  filter_action = 1                 # reject

We just received a message with a application/octet_stream
attachment. My interpretation of the settings are that the message
should have been rejected. However, the message merely got
filtered, the attachment was stripped, and the message passed
through without an attachment.

Is this a bug or expected behaviour?

-- 
martin;              (greetings from the heart of the sun.)
  \____ echo mailto: !#^."<*>"|tr "<*> mailto:" net at madduck
 
invalid/expired pgp subkeys? use subkeys.pgp.net as keyserver!
spamtraps: madduck.bogus at madduck.net
 
"sometimes the urge to do bad
 is nearly overpowering"
                                                          -- ben horne
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From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar 19 23:01:48 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 14:01:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] content filtering not working as expected
In-Reply-To: <20050319214835.GA1630@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <PC17442005031914014807658650f7cd@msapiro>

martin f krafft wrote:
>
>I have a 2.1.5 installation, and one list is using the following
>content_filter options:
>
>  filter_content = True
>  filter_mime_types = ''
>
>  pass_mime_types = """multipart
>  text
>  application/pgp-signature
>  application/pdf"""
>
>  convert_html_to_plaintext = True
>  filter_action = 1                 # reject
>
>We just received a message with a application/octet_stream
>attachment. My interpretation of the settings are that the message
>should have been rejected. However, the message merely got
>filtered, the attachment was stripped, and the message passed
>through without an attachment.
>
>Is this a bug or expected behaviour?

This is expected. filter_action is only taken when nothing remains
after filtering. The following text is on the Details for
filter_action page.

  One of these actions is take when the message matches one of the
  content filtering rules, meaning, the top-level content type matches
  one of the filter_mime_types, or the top-level content type does not
  match one of the pass_mime_types, or if after filtering the subparts
  of the message, the message ends up empty.

  Note this action is not taken if after filtering the message still
  contains content. In that case the message is always forwarded on to
  the list membership.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From madduck at madduck.net  Sun Mar 20 01:31:18 2005
From: madduck at madduck.net (martin f krafft)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 01:31:18 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] content filtering not working as expected
In-Reply-To: <PC17442005031914014807658650f7cd@msapiro>
References: <20050319214835.GA1630@localhost.localdomain>
	<PC17442005031914014807658650f7cd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20050320003118.GA5829@localhost.localdomain>

also sprach Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> [2005.03.19.2301 +0100]:
>   Note this action is not taken if after filtering the message still
>   contains content. In that case the message is always forwarded on to
>   the list membership.

Sorry for not seeing this. Now I wonder if it's possible to somehow
make Mailman reject posts with unwanted attachment types... is it?
If so, how?

-- 
martin;              (greetings from the heart of the sun.)
  \____ echo mailto: !#^."<*>"|tr "<*> mailto:" net at madduck
 
invalid/expired pgp subkeys? use subkeys.pgp.net as keyserver!
spamtraps: madduck.bogus at madduck.net
 
the heineken uncertainty principle:
  you can never be sure how many
  beers you had last night.
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From jelly+mailman-users-via-gmane at srk.fer.hr  Sun Mar 20 01:16:04 2005
From: jelly+mailman-users-via-gmane at srk.fer.hr (Zoran Dzelajlija)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 01:16:04 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Getting Mailman to work
References: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB8703F3E61E@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
	<PC17442005031809234506566ed3ad3d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20050320001604.2738.2.NOFFLE@islands.iskon.hr>

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> It looks to me like a Postfix configuration problem, i.e. Mailman is
> sending the mail as it should and Postfix is not accepting it because
> it doesn't like the sender <test-bounces at 64.40.100.147>.

Shouldn't that be <test-bounces@[64.40.100.147]> (as per rfc2821, 4.1.3)?

Zoran



From jwblist at olympus.net  Sun Mar 20 01:51:45 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 16:51:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Getting Mailman to work
In-Reply-To: <20050320001604.2738.2.NOFFLE@islands.iskon.hr>
Message-ID: <BE620921.362A%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 3/19/2005 16:16, "Zoran Dzelajlija"
<jelly+mailman-users-via-gmane at srk.fer.hr> wrote:

> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>> It looks to me like a Postfix configuration problem, i.e. Mailman is
>> sending the mail as it should and Postfix is not accepting it because
>> it doesn't like the sender <test-bounces at 64.40.100.147>.
> 
> Shouldn't that be <test-bounces@[64.40.100.147]> (as per rfc2821, 4.1.3)?
> 
Indeed.  Thanks to 3Com and friends, 64.40.10.147, which was once
syntactically invalid, is now simply a syntactically correct FQDN which
doesn't have a host to be the name of (there is no 147 top level domain).

To be a IP literal, the IP indeed needs to be inside a bracket pair (as it
long has...well before 3Com caused domain names to be much harder to
recognize than they should be).

Postfix is configured "correctly" by some definition of correct.  The
sending entity needs to get it right.

If mailman is generating the <test-bounces at 64.40.100.147>, Mailman is
incorrect.

  --John



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Mar 20 02:11:02 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 17:11:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] content filtering not working as expected
In-Reply-To: <20050320003118.GA5829@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <PC174420050319171102004658d4e3f0@msapiro>

martin f krafft wrote:
>
>Sorry for not seeing this. Now I wonder if it's possible to somehow
>make Mailman reject posts with unwanted attachment types... is it?
>If so, how?

Beginning in 2.1.6, Privacy options...->Spam
filters->header_filter_rules will match sub-part headers allowing you
to match things like content-type of subparts, attachment file name
extensions, etc. and specify Hold, Reject, Discard or Accept for
messages that match.

See
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-February/042372.html
although note that that post has a link to 2.1.6b2 and the current is
2.1.6b4 on sourceforge.net.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jwt at onjapan.net  Sun Mar 20 03:26:10 2005
From: jwt at onjapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 11:26:10 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Major admin problems
In-Reply-To: <BE61C8DB.17C0F%michaelanderson@okcu.edu>
References: <BE61C8DB.17C0F%michaelanderson@okcu.edu>
Message-ID: <5b0b72247064810db47964408827697f@onjapan.net>

On Mar 20, 2005, at 03:17, Michael Anderson wrote:
> 1. Regular mail is not being delivered.

Are you sure the qrunner is being invoked by cron every minute?
Are there no clues in the logs/* files?  Or in your mail server's logs?
Are the messages still in the qfiles/ directory?

> The systems admin who is NOT a unix expert thinks the drive is 
> seriously
> corrupted. So, I need to pull off the subscriber list and rebuild the 
> drive.

If you save the contents of the ~mailman/lists directory you will be 
able to recreate your lists using them.  (You will also want to backup 
your ~mailman/archives directories (if you find out why the files have 
gone missing) and things like any customizations you've made in 
mm_cfg.py.)

> Can anyone help me? I am in the process of moving everyone over to 
> digest
> mode so that I can send them all a message explaining the problem.. Is 
> there
> a way to do that easily? Right now I am going through all the screens 
> in the
> Membership Management area clicking digest on every name. Its taking
> forever.. Is there an easier, more global way?

If you have shell access, you can use ~mailman/bin/withlist to set 
everyone to digest mode:
1.  Create ~mailman/bin/alldigest.py containing:
### alldigest.py
def alldigest(m):
     for member in m.GetMembers():
         print member
         m.SetUserDigest(member, 1)
     m.Save()
### alldigest.py
2. Run it with the 'withlist' framework on your list
./withlist -l -r alldigest yourlistname

If you don't have shell access, you can write a script that acts like a 
(fast) web browser.  Some Mailman 2.1.x-oriented examples are at 
http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#throughtheweb

It would be better to solve the real problem.  And/or upgrade to 2.1.x. 
  But if you do choose to proceed with the "set everyone to digest mode" 
method, backup the list first so that when the problem is eventually 
solved, you will have a record of who really wanted digest mode.

-- 
Jim Tittsler             http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship          http://Starship.Python.net/
Ringo MUG Tokyo          http://www.ringo.net/rss.html



From madduck at madduck.net  Sun Mar 20 22:25:24 2005
From: madduck at madduck.net (martin f krafft)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 22:25:24 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] content filtering not working as expected
In-Reply-To: <PC174420050319171102004658d4e3f0@msapiro>
References: <20050320003118.GA5829@localhost.localdomain>
	<PC174420050319171102004658d4e3f0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20050320212524.GA19826@cirrus.madduck.net>

also sprach Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> [2005.03.20.0211 +0100]:
> Beginning in 2.1.6, Privacy options...->Spam
> filters->header_filter_rules will match sub-part headers allowing
> you to match things like content-type of subparts, attachment file
> name extensions, etc. and specify Hold, Reject, Discard or Accept
> for messages that match.

Nice. I will have to wait until 2.1.6 is in Debian though, which
will be shortly after it's released... :/

-- 
martin;              (greetings from the heart of the sun.)
  \____ echo mailto: !#^."<*>"|tr "<*> mailto:" net at madduck
 
invalid/expired pgp subkeys? use subkeys.pgp.net as keyserver!
spamtraps: madduck.bogus at madduck.net
 
it is ok to let your mind go blank,
but please turn off the sound.
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From paul at thcwd.com  Mon Mar 21 00:33:19 2005
From: paul at thcwd.com (Paul H Byerly)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 17:33:19 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SMTP_MAX_RCPTS setting for gmail and others
Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20050320172324.05e0aeb0@216.127.68.24>

         I've recently turned off personalisation on a couple of large 
lists because it was running server load up too much when I sent thousands 
of individual, html e-mails.  Now I am getting "failed with code 452: 4.5.3 
Too many recipients" from gmail, hotmail, aol, yahoo and others.

         I realise the solution is to drop the value of 
SMTP_MAX_RCPTS.  I'm playing with various settings, but I wonder if anyone 
knows a value that seems to get past all the big systems?

<>< Paul



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 21 01:08:50 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 16:08:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SMTP_MAX_RCPTS setting for gmail and others
In-Reply-To: <6.2.0.14.0.20050320172324.05e0aeb0@216.127.68.24>
Message-ID: <PC1744200503201608500546b4e072d4@msapiro>

Paul H Byerly wrote:

>         I've recently turned off personalisation on a couple of large 
>lists because it was running server load up too much when I sent thousands 
>of individual, html e-mails.  Now I am getting "failed with code 452: 4.5.3 
>Too many recipients" from gmail, hotmail, aol, yahoo and others.
>
>         I realise the solution is to drop the value of 
>SMTP_MAX_RCPTS.  I'm playing with various settings, but I wonder if anyone 
>knows a value that seems to get past all the big systems?

There are discussions of this in the list archives. An old post at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2001-April/010917.html
says the magic number for AOL at that time appeared to be about 17.

However, see articles 4.11 and 4.12 in the FAQ
(http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py) which say the optimal value
for SMTP_MAX_RCPTS is in the range 2 - 5 from a performance standpoint.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Mon Mar 21 01:29:41 2005
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 19:29:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Major admin problems
In-Reply-To: <BE61C8DB.17C0F%michaelanderson@okcu.edu>
Message-ID: <423DCF25.22540.8364CD@localhost>

On 19 Mar 2005 at 12:17, Michael Anderson wrote:

> The systems admin who is NOT a unix expert thinks the drive is
> seriously corrupted. So, I need to pull off the subscriber list and
> rebuild the drive. It is configured with Linux SuSe which has a nice
> webmin browser interface that I have been able to use to administrate
> certain things. This has been helpful for me since I don't know much
> unix. 

If you used the Mailman webmin module, check your aliases file.

For some reason the Mailman module that I have used in the past have 
toasted my Sendmail aliases file.

-- 
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
The early worm gets eaten by the bird, so sleep late. 




From jmills at ici.org  Mon Mar 21 00:28:10 2005
From: jmills at ici.org (Juliann Mills)
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 18:28:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sending html emails using mailman
Message-ID: <67ca01cefe1855617c7c7a68ad7f808b@ici.org>

I am a new systems administrator, (mailman was configured by the old  
sysadmin).  One of the list administrators want to send html emails..  
she says now that she is unable to do so now.  Here is what our config  
file looks like now.  What changes do I have to make to allow her to  
send html emails?

Thanks for your help!

Juliann Mills
Investment Company Institute
Systems Administrator


************************************************************************ 
********************
root at edge4:/www/appl/mailman-2.1.2/Mailman> more mm_cfg.py
# -*- python -*-

# Copyright (C) 1998,1999,2000,2001,2002 by the Free Software  
Foundation, Inc.
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
# modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
# as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
# of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
#
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
# GNU General Public License for more details.
#
# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
# along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
# Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307,  
USA.

"""This module contains your site-specific settings.

 From a brand new distribution it should be copied to mm_cfg.py.  If you
already have an mm_cfg.py, be careful to add in only the new settings  
you
want.  Mailman's installation procedure will never overwrite your  
mm_cfg.py
file.

The complete set of distributed defaults, with documentation, are in  
the file
Defaults.py.  In mm_cfg.py, override only those you want to change,  
after the

   from Defaults import *

line (see below).

Note that these are just default settings; many can be overridden via  
the
administrator and user interfaces on a per-list or per-user basis.

"""

###############################################
# Here's where we get the distributed defaults.

from Defaults import *

##################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.ici.org'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.ici.org'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
# get rid of the images
IMAGE_LOGOS = 0
# the big chunks are causing slowdowns because of bad domain names
# so let's lower this from 500 to 1 for max performance
SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 1
# we don't send mails very often, so bounce data needs to last longer.
DEFAULT_BOUNCE_INFO_STALE_AFTER = days(90)
# too many notices won't help with this crowd
DEFAULT_BOUNCE_YOU_ARE_DISABLED_WARNINGS = 0

janetsHeader="""
<STYLE type=text/css>
A:link {
         COLOR: #006699; TEXT-DECORATION: none
}
A:active {
         COLOR: #0000cc; TEXT-DECORATION: underline
}
A:visited {
         COLOR: #006666; TEXT-DECORATION: none
}
A:hover {
         COLOR: #000099; TEXT-DECORATION: underline
}
P {
         FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif
}
H2 {
         FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none;  
COLOR: #006699
; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;  
TEXT-DECORATION
: none
}
TD {
         FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif
}
H1 {
         FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: #000000;  
FONT-FAMILY: Verda
na, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; TEXT-DECORATION: none
}
.head2 {
         FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none;  
COLOR: #006699
; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;  
TEXT-DECORATION
: none
}
-->
</style>

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="724" align=center  
bgColor=#ffffff bord
er=0>
   <TR>
     <TD bgColor=#FFFFFF colSpan=2>
       <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="724">
         <tr>
           <td><img name="n04_email_1"  
src="http://www.ici.org/images/04_email_1.
gif" width="237" height="120" border="0" alt=""></td>
           <td><img name="n04_email_2"  
src="http://www.ici.org/images/04_email_2.
gif" width="487" height="120" border="0" alt=""></td>
         </tr>
       </table></TD>
   </TR>
   <TR>
     <TD bgColor=#FFFFFF colSpan=2>
</TD>
   </TR>
   <TR>
     <TD vAlign=top align=left colSpan=2><img height=20
       src="http://www.ici.org/images/l2_blank.jpg" width=700 ?></TD>
   </TR>
   <TR>
     <TD valign="top">
"""

janetsFooter="""
</td></tr>
</table>
"""



From zhaoh at cnic.cn  Mon Mar 21 10:17:08 2005
From: zhaoh at cnic.cn (Tom)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 17:17:08 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I guess something wrong with Mailman intergrating
	Sendmail
Message-ID: <006101c52df6$c19688c0$9202e29f@cniculgpbq5czh>

Hi all,

Enviorment:
My box's OS is Red Hat Enterprise Linux 3.
The mailman version is 2.1.5.
The python version is 2.2.3-5.
The Sendmail version is 8.12.10-1.

I install mailman according to Installlation Manual Release 2.1 by Barry Warsaw as follows.

1. Add the group and user
% groupadd mailman
% useradd -g mailman mailman -c GNU Mailman

2. Create the installation directory
% cd /usr/local
% mkdir mailman
% chgrp mailman mailman
$ chown mailman mailman
% chmod a+rx,g+ws mailman

3. Build and install Mailman
% su - mailman
% cd /usr/local/src/mailman-<version>
% ./configure --prefix=/usr/local/mailman --with-cgi-gid=apache
% make
% make install

4. Check your installation
% cd /usr/local/mailman/bin
% ./bin/check_perms -f
The output tell us 'No problems found'.

5. Set up your web server
Add the folowing lines to the httpd.conf and then restart the httpd server.
#mailman: by kevin
ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/"
#mailman: by kevin 2005.3.17

Alias   /pipermail/ "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/"
<Directory "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/">
        AddDefaultCharset Off
</Directory>

6. Set up your mail server(I guess maybe something wrong in this step for I am quite new to sendmail and I don't the detailed configure and the exact operation.)
6.1 Sendmail ``smrsh'' compatibility
% cd /etc/smrsh/
% ln -s /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman mailman
6.2 Integrating Sendmail and Mailman by David Champion's mm-handler.readme.

6.2.1 Copy mailman.mc, and make any changes you need at your site. 
% cd /usr/local/src/mailman-2.1.5/contrib/
% cp mailman.mc /etc/mail/mailman.mc
In file /etc/mail/mailman.mc,I changed the OS and the paths to procmail as follows:
define(`PROCMAIL_MAILER_PATH', `/usr/bin/procmail')
FEATURE(`local_procmail')
OSTYPE(linux)dnl
DOMAIN(generic)dnl

6.2.2 Install mm-handler.
% cp /usr/local/src/mailman-2.1.5/contrib//mm-hander /etc/mail/mm-handler

6.2.3 Edit mm-handler, and make any changes you need at your site.
In file /etc/mail/mm-handler, I changed the following two lines.
$MMWRAPPER = "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman";
$MMLISTDIR = "/usr/local/mailman/lists";

6.2.4 You should set up a virtusertable. Be sure to make this map, too!
In file /etc/mail/virtusertable,there is only one entry for my mailman domain, which is:
@app.sdg.ac.cn                  mailman-owner at app.sdg.ac.cn
I made the map even though I don't if this is correct or suitable for such situation.
% makemap hash /etc/mail/virtusertable </etc/mail/virtusertable

6.2.5 You absolutely must have a mailertable.
In file /etc/mail/mailertable, there is only one entry for my mailman domain, which is:
app.sdg.ac.cn           mailman:app.sdg.ac.cn
I also made the map(I appreciate if someone correct me.).
% makemap hash /etc/mail/mailertable </etc/mail/mailertable

6.2.6 The mailer definition
I made no change. And here is the end part of file /etc/mail/mailman.mc
## Special flags! See
##      http://www.sendmail.org/~ca/email/doc8.10/op-sh-5.html#sh-5.4
## Note especially the absence of the "m" and "n" flags. THIS IS
## IMPORTANT: mm-handler assumes this behavior to avoid having to know
## too much about address parsing and other RFC-2822 mail details.

Mmailman,       P=/etc/mail/mm-handler, F=rDFMhlqSu, U=mailman:other,
                S=EnvFromL, R=EnvToL/HdrToL,
                A=mm-handler $h $u

6.2.7 Generate your new sendmail.cf file (The most probably wrong doing, I think, because the newly created sendmail.cf is smaller than original one.)
$ cd /etc/mail/
% m4 /usr/share/sendmail-cf/m4/cf.m4 ./sendmail.mc > ./sendmail.cf

6.2.8 Stop and restart sendmail on your list server.
$ /etc/init.d/sendmail stop
$ /etc/init.d/sendmail start

It's over for seting up mail server.


7. Set up cron
% su -
% cd /usr/local/mailman/cron
% crontab -u mailman ./crontab.in

8. Start the Mailman qrunner
% /usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start
% cp /usr/local/mailman/scripts/mailman /etc/init.d/mailman
% chkconfig --add mailman


I succeed in create new list but the letter sent by the mail account in this new list cannot be delivered to others.
And following is the /var/log/maillog message. It seems the sendmai doesn't work at all.

Mar 21 08:58:40 app sendmail[26260]: j2L0weGU026260: SYSERR(root): rewrite: excessive recursion (max 50), ruleset canonify
Mar 21 08:58:40 app sendmail[26259]: j2L0weXQ026259: to=qinxin at cnic.cn, ctladdr=apache (48/48), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=32348, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=5.0.0, stat=Service unavailable
Mar 21 08:58:40 app sendmail[26259]: j2L0weXQ026259: j2L0weXR026259: DSN: Service unavailable
Mar 21 08:58:40 app sendmail[26260]: j2L0weGV026260: SYSERR(root): rewrite: excessive recursion (max 50), ruleset canonify
Mar 21 08:58:40 app sendmail[26259]: j2L0weXR026259: to=apache, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=33372, relay=[127.0.0.1], dsn=5.0.0, stat=Service unavailable
Mar 21 08:58:40 app sendmail[26260]: j2L0weGV026260: from=<>, size=3372, class=0, nrcpts=0, bodytype=8BITMIME, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]
Mar 21 08:58:40 app sendmail[26259]: j2L0weXR026259: j2L0weXS026259: return to sender: Service unavailable
Mar 21 08:58:40 app sendmail[26260]: j2L0weGX026260: SYSERR(root): rewrite: excessive recursion (max 50), ruleset canonify
Mar 21 08:58:40 app sendmail[26259]: j2L0weXS026259: to=postmaster, delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=relay, pri=34396, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=5.0.0, stat=Service unavailable
Mar 21 08:58:40 app sendmail[26260]: j2L0weGX026260: from=<>, size=4396, class=0, nrcpts=0, bodytype=8BITMIME, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]
Mar 21 08:58:40 app sendmail[26259]: j2L0weXR026259: Losing ./qfj2L0weXR026259: savemail panic
Mar 21 08:58:40 app sendmail[26259]: j2L0weXR026259: SYSERR(apache): savemail: cannot save rejected email anywhere


Thanks in advance.

Cheers.
ZhaoHua



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Mar 21 10:44:32 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 10:44:32 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sending html emails using mailman
In-Reply-To: <67ca01cefe1855617c7c7a68ad7f808b@ici.org>
References: <67ca01cefe1855617c7c7a68ad7f808b@ici.org>
Message-ID: <p0620070bbe6446df2dd5@[10.0.1.3]>

At 6:28 PM -0500 2005-03-20, Juliann Mills wrote:

>  I am a new systems administrator, (mailman was configured by the
>  old sysadmin).  One of the list administrators want to send html emails.
>  she says now that she is unable to do so now.  Here is what our config
>  file looks like now.  What changes do I have to make to allow her to
>  send html emails?

	The configuration you have shown us has nothing to do with the 
sending of HTML e-mail.

	Try going to the web admin interface for the list, then go to the 
"Content filtering" page.  Look at the first radio button, and see if 
it is set to "Yes" or "No".  If it is set to "Yes", look at the two 
fields below.  Normally, the upper field is empty (labeled 
"filter_mime_types"), and the lower field has a few entries.

	If that's true for you, then make sure that the lower field 
contains at least the following lines:

		multipart/mixed
		multipart/alternative
		text/plain
		application/pgp-signature
		multipart/signed
		text/html

	Also look at the radio button below the second field (labeled 
convert_html_to_plaintext), and make sure that it is set to "No".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Mar 21 10:47:07 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 10:47:07 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I guess something wrong with Mailman
	intergrating 	Sendmail
In-Reply-To: <006101c52df6$c19688c0$9202e29f@cniculgpbq5czh>
References: <006101c52df6$c19688c0$9202e29f@cniculgpbq5czh>
Message-ID: <p0620070cbe6448117565@[10.0.1.3]>

At 5:17 PM +0800 2005-03-21, Tom wrote:

>  The mailman version is 2.1.5.
>  The python version is 2.2.3-5.

	This may not solve your problem, but note that Mailman 2.1.5 
requires Python version 2.3 or greater.  See 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq05.008.htp>.


	As for the rest, you've definitely got something wrong, but I do 
not yet have a clue what it might be.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From sythos at sythos.net  Mon Mar 21 15:32:05 2005
From: sythos at sythos.net (Sythos)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 15:32:05 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] retrieve old post via email command
Message-ID: <20050321143205.GA11830@sythos.net>

Hi all,

there is a way (patch, option, other) to let a user subscribed to a
mailinglist to retrieve old (archived) post using an email command?

I cannot find anything in FAQ, userguide, adminguide or mailinglsit
archive...

Regards
	Sythos

-- 

Sythos - http://www.sythos.net
  ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
  /\                        - against M$ attachments


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 21 18:07:40 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 09:07:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] retrieve old post via email command
In-Reply-To: <20050321143205.GA11830@sythos.net>
Message-ID: <PC17442005032109074006809a8c67f0@msapiro>

Sythos wrote:
>
>there is a way (patch, option, other) to let a user subscribed to a
>mailinglist to retrieve old (archived) post using an email command?

There is no e-mail command to do this, nor AFAIK is there any patch
available to implement one.

The full list of available e-mail commands is obtained by sending mail
with subject=help to the <listname>-request at example.com address.

>I cannot find anything in FAQ, userguide, adminguide or mailinglsit
>archive...

You could also search patches and requests for enhancements (RFE) at
http://sourceforge.net/projects/mailman and the ToDo list at
http://www.list.org/todo.html

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From adrian at whatifnet.com  Mon Mar 21 18:27:26 2005
From: adrian at whatifnet.com (Adrian Wells)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 12:27:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Additional Customization of Message Templates?
Message-ID: <fc.001d021100632ead001d021100632ead.63317d@whatifnet.com>

Hello all,

I am working with Mailman 2.1.5 on OS X 10.2.8 with Python 2.2 (I realize
that this version of Python is not supported with Mailman 2.1.5 but I did
not discover this until recently so some changes already to allow things
to work fairly well until I can update Python).  

I have two questions concerning customizing message templates that I have
not yet found answers for in the FAQ or mail archives (if I missed
something please let me know and in that case I apologize for posting this
message):

1)  How does one access list specific variables such as 'description' and
'info' in templates such as verify.txt and subscribeack.txt?
It sounds like this is possible by modifying MailList.py.  In fact there
appears to be a previous thread on this subject
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg29827.html>.  
Does the information in this apply to this question?

2)  How does one customize the From and Subject fields in the Welcome or
Goodbye messages sent out from a list?
It would be great if the value used in the From field was taken from the
"Explicit Reply-To: header" specified under General Options on Mailman's
default administrative web interface. 

Thank you,
-Adrian



From ifetch at du.edu  Mon Mar 21 19:01:21 2005
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 11:01:21 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman maintenance from the shell and "mailman"
	group
Message-ID: <20050321105649.Y14123@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>

Hello,

    We'd like to have multiple people manage our mailman installation via 
shell access, and are looking at adding their Unix accounts to the mailman 
group.  This seems to work, but I wanted to verify that this doesn't cause 
any problems down the road.

    We could have folks login as the mailman 
account, but it'd be nicer if they could use their own accounts.


Thank you,
Ivan Fetch.


From jdennis at redhat.com  Mon Mar 21 21:34:36 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 15:34:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman maintenance from the shell and
	"mailman" group
In-Reply-To: <20050321105649.Y14123@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
References: <20050321105649.Y14123@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
Message-ID: <1111437276.25568.13.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Mon, 2005-03-21 at 11:01 -0700, Ivan Fetch wrote:
> Hello,
> 
>     We'd like to have multiple people manage our mailman installation via 
> shell access, and are looking at adding their Unix accounts to the mailman 
> group.  This seems to work, but I wanted to verify that this doesn't cause 
> any problems down the road.
> 
>     We could have folks login as the mailman 
> account, but it'd be nicer if they could use their own accounts.

Yes, and no. It depends on what they're doing, but in general I would
suspect this will work fine as long as they stick to using the command
line interface (CLI), e.g. whats in the bin directory. Here is the
issue:

All of mailman's security is group based. As long as the user is just
running commands and is in the group mailman you should be fine.

However, if they edit or create files on their own they will end up
having themselves as the owner, and their primary group, which will not
be mailman. *SOME* of these files have the potential to exhibit
permission problems. So as long as they stick to the CLI and are not
editing python files you should be fine, if they are creating/modifying
files by using a text editor, you could end up with bad permissions.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From ifetch at du.edu  Mon Mar 21 22:42:22 2005
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 14:42:22 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman maintenance from the shell and "mailman"
	group
In-Reply-To: <1111437276.25568.13.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
References: <20050321105649.Y14123@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
	<1111437276.25568.13.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <20050321144045.I14123@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>

Hi John,
    Thanks for the reply - this confirms what I figured was the case (but 
you never know right?).

    We plan to just have these users running the Mailman binaries and some 
other useful scripts we wrote which wrap around / combine functionality 
in the mailman binaries for common tasks.


Thanks - Ivan.

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, John Dennis wrote:

> On Mon, 2005-03-21 at 11:01 -0700, Ivan Fetch wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>>     We'd like to have multiple people manage our mailman installation via
>> shell access, and are looking at adding their Unix accounts to the mailman
>> group.  This seems to work, but I wanted to verify that this doesn't cause
>> any problems down the road.
>>
>>     We could have folks login as the mailman
>> account, but it'd be nicer if they could use their own accounts.
>
> Yes, and no. It depends on what they're doing, but in general I would
> suspect this will work fine as long as they stick to using the command
> line interface (CLI), e.g. whats in the bin directory. Here is the
> issue:
>
> All of mailman's security is group based. As long as the user is just
> running commands and is in the group mailman you should be fine.
>
> However, if they edit or create files on their own they will end up
> having themselves as the owner, and their primary group, which will not
> be mailman. *SOME* of these files have the potential to exhibit
> permission problems. So as long as they stick to the CLI and are not
> editing python files you should be fine, if they are creating/modifying
> files by using a text editor, you could end up with bad permissions.
> -- 
> John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>
>
>


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 21 23:36:46 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 14:36:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Additional Customization of Message Templates?
In-Reply-To: <fc.001d021100632ead001d021100632ead.63317d@whatifnet.com>
Message-ID: <PC1744200503211436460789b348eae3@msapiro>

Adrian Wells wrote:
>
>I have two questions concerning customizing message templates that I have
>not yet found answers for in the FAQ or mail archives (if I missed
>something please let me know and in that case I apologize for posting this
>message):
>
>1)  How does one access list specific variables such as 'description' and
>'info' in templates such as verify.txt and subscribeack.txt?
>It sounds like this is possible by modifying MailList.py.  In fact there
>appears to be a previous thread on this subject
><http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg29827.html>.  
>Does the information in this apply to this question?

Yes, it does, but MailList.py is not always the module that needs to be
modified. The second post in the previous thread mentions using grep
to find the module(s) that reference the template. In the case of
subscribeack.txt, that module is Deliverer.py

>2)  How does one customize the From and Subject fields in the Welcome or
>Goodbye messages sent out from a list?
>It would be great if the value used in the From field was taken from the
>"Explicit Reply-To: header" specified under General Options on Mailman's
>default administrative web interface. 

These two messages at least are generated in Deliverer.py by calling
Message.UserNotification(). The arguments of this call specify To,
From, Subject, message and language.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From adrian at whatifnet.com  Tue Mar 22 03:48:02 2005
From: adrian at whatifnet.com (Adrian Wells)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 21:48:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Additional Customization of Message Templates?
In-Reply-To: <PC1744200503211436460789b348eae3@msapiro>
References: <PC1744200503211436460789b348eae3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <fc.001d021100633a56001d021100632ead.633a63@whatifnet.com>

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> on Monday, March 21, 2005 at 5:36 PM +0000
wrote:
>>1)  How does one access list specific variables such as 'description' and
>>'info' in templates such as verify.txt and subscribeack.txt?
>>It sounds like this is possible by modifying MailList.py.  In fact there
>>appears to be a previous thread on this subject
>><http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg29827.html>.  
>>Does the information in this apply to this question?
>
>Yes, it does, but MailList.py is not always the module that needs to be
>modified. The second post in the previous thread mentions using grep
>to find the module(s) that reference the template. In the case of
>subscribeack.txt, that module is Deliverer.py
>
>>2)  How does one customize the From and Subject fields in the Welcome or
>>Goodbye messages sent out from a list?
>>It would be great if the value used in the From field was taken from the
>>"Explicit Reply-To: header" specified under General Options on Mailman's
>>default administrative web interface. 
>
>These two messages at least are generated in Deliverer.py by calling
>Message.UserNotification(). The arguments of this call specify To,
>From, Subject, message and language.


Thank you for your quick and informative reply.  I found the answer to my
first question shortly before receiving your reply and after I performed a
bit more grep'ing (and careful reading of the results).  To give proper
credit, there is another post in the archives which also helped to answer
the first question:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg30735.html>.



From summerisleprod at mac.com  Tue Mar 22 01:33:38 2005
From: summerisleprod at mac.com (MK)
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 16:33:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Including the "to" name?
Message-ID: <c816bf28946f93a4d20896a10303b831@mac.com>

This one is so simple I feel like I'm dense not figuring it out.  But 
on our list, we want each recipient to get the email, appearing as if 
it is going to their email address, not just [list-name]@[host] ... not 
sure what I'm doing wrong but the "from" is correct while the "to" 
shows the list name, not the individual recipient.

Thanks!



From rabbie at commoncents.net.au  Mon Mar 21 22:50:32 2005
From: rabbie at commoncents.net.au (Rabbie Zalaf)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 08:50:32 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman admin page is blank.
Message-ID: <64049.203.134.1.70.1111441832.squirrel@mail.commoncents.net.au>

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone could help me figure out this problem.

When I go to my web admin page for mailman, the page is just blank and
nothing apepars in my log files.
site is:

http://www.commoncents.net.au/cgi-bin/admin/test/

Any help is appreciated.

Regards,

Rabbie Zalaf
PC / Network Consultant
Common Cents Solutions
www.commoncents.net.au

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
VERSION: 3.1
GIT d++ s:>s-:- a23 C++++ L U+++
P+ L+++>$L+++++ E--- W+++ w-- M--
t+++ G++
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----




From marco.ng at hk.greenpeace.org  Tue Mar 22 04:50:53 2005
From: marco.ng at hk.greenpeace.org (Marco Ng)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 11:50:53 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question on Mailman
Message-ID: <6.2.1.2.1.20050322114815.028a1b68@localhost>

Dear Sir/Madam,

I want to ask whether Fedora Core 3 can install Mailman??
And what is the system requirements for FC 3???

Besides, I want to know the performance of Mailman (e.g. number of emails 
can be sent within an hour...)

Regards,
Marco
Marco 22, 2005



From hmag at ozemail.com.au  Tue Mar 22 10:09:56 2005
From: hmag at ozemail.com.au (Terry Allen)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 20:09:56 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Security update for 2.1.5
Message-ID: <p06210202be6590f48894@[203.53.37.182]>

Hi again,
	I tried applying the security patch for 2.1.5 which is listed 
on the website - but got a number of errors - can anyone outline the 
procedure for implementing the patch please, whether it's by running 
the patch or replacing lines of code within certain files - any 
assistance would be appreciated.
	For information, the system I am trying to update is OSX 
10.3.8 with Mailman 2.1.5 & the developers tools installed. Many 
thanks.
-- 

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___________________________________________________________________
hEARd

Postal Address:
	hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd,	Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia
Internet -
	WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com
EMAIL: hmag at ozemail.com.au
Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400
Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400
-----------------------------------------------
Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994
-----------------------------------------------


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Mar 22 10:14:43 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 10:14:43 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Including the "to" name?
In-Reply-To: <c816bf28946f93a4d20896a10303b831@mac.com>
References: <c816bf28946f93a4d20896a10303b831@mac.com>
Message-ID: <p0620072cbe659261e0ca@[10.0.1.3]>

At 4:33 PM -0800 2005-03-21, MK wrote:

>  This one is so simple I feel like I'm dense not figuring it out.  But
>  on our list, we want each recipient to get the email, appearing as if
>  it is going to their email address, not just [list-name]@[host] ...
>  not sure what I'm doing wrong but the "from" is correct while the "to"
>  shows the list name, not the individual recipient.

	You need to enable "full personalization".  Go to the Mailman FAQ 
Wizard and search for "personalization".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Mar 22 10:25:10 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 10:25:10 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Security update for 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <p06210202be6590f48894@[203.53.37.182]>
References: <p06210202be6590f48894@[203.53.37.182]>
Message-ID: <p0620072ebe65940542ff@[10.0.1.3]>

At 8:09 PM +1100 2005-03-22, Terry Allen wrote:

>  	I tried applying the security patch for 2.1.5 which is listed on the
>  website - but got a number of errors - can anyone outline the procedure
>  for implementing the patch please, whether it's by running the patch
>  or replacing lines of code within certain files - any assistance would
>  be appreciated.

	You need to use the program "patch" to apply the patch as 
provided.  Note that Python is sensitive to indentation and the use 
of tab characters versus spaces, so you can't just cut-n-paste what 
you see.  You either need to make sure that the indentation perfectly 
matches what is present in the files being modified, or you need to 
use the program "patch" to do that for you.

	If you have stored the security patch in a file called 
"patchfile", and you have placed that file in the appropriate 
directory, it should be as simple as this:

		# patch < patchfile

	And the program should be able to figure out the rest by reading 
the patchfile and applying that to the code in the appropriate places.

>  	For information, the system I am trying to update is OSX 10.3.8 with
>  Mailman 2.1.5 & the developers tools installed. Many thanks.

	At the command-line prompt, do "man patch" to see how this program works.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Mar 22 10:20:58 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 10:20:58 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question on Mailman
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.1.20050322114815.028a1b68@localhost>
References: <6.2.1.2.1.20050322114815.028a1b68@localhost>
Message-ID: <p0620072dbe659288e9c0@[10.0.1.3]>

At 11:50 AM +0800 2005-03-22, Marco Ng wrote:

>  I want to ask whether Fedora Core 3 can install Mailman??

	Yes.  However, I strongly encourage you to read all the entries 
in the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> and all the Mailman 
documentation linked under <http://www.list.org/docs.html> before 
proceeding.

>  And what is the system requirements for FC 3???

	See FAQ 1.24.

>  Besides, I want to know the performance of Mailman (e.g. number of
>  emails can be sent within an hour...)

	See FAQ 1.15, and also search the FAQ Wizard for "performance".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From jdennis at redhat.com  Tue Mar 22 15:25:51 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 09:25:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question on Mailman
In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.1.20050322114815.028a1b68@localhost>
References: <6.2.1.2.1.20050322114815.028a1b68@localhost>
Message-ID: <1111501551.4174.2.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Tue, 2005-03-22 at 11:50 +0800, Marco Ng wrote:
> Dear Sir/Madam,
> 
> I want to ask whether Fedora Core 3 can install Mailman??
> And what is the system requirements for FC 3???

Yes, FC3 has the latest mailman along with the latest security fixes. Do
make sure to read /usr/share/doc/mailman-*/INSTALL.REDHAT after you
install the rpm. Many people are running the RH rpms's on Fedora.

BTW, the bugs referenced in the FAQ were fixed a long time ago.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Mar 22 16:45:48 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:45:48 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question on Mailman
In-Reply-To: <1111501551.4174.2.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <6.2.1.2.1.20050322114815.028a1b68@localhost>
	<1111501551.4174.2.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <p06200734be65edf05642@[10.0.1.3]>

At 9:25 AM -0500 2005-03-22, John Dennis wrote:

>  BTW, the bugs referenced in the FAQ were fixed a long time ago.

	Well, they were certainly relevant at the time.  If you'd like to 
do some editing in the FAQ and clarify the position of more recent 
versions against the historical versions mentioned, we would welcome 
those changes.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 22 18:02:21 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 09:02:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman admin page is blank.
In-Reply-To: <64049.203.134.1.70.1111441832.squirrel@mail.commoncents.net.au>
Message-ID: <PC17442005032209022100937a009bf2@msapiro>

Rabbie Zalaf wrote:
>
>When I go to my web admin page for mailman, the page is just blank and
>nothing apepars in my log files.
>site is:
>
>http://www.commoncents.net.au/cgi-bin/admin/test/

If I go there I get a "Not Found" error, not a blank page.

See http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node10.html for information on
setting up your web server.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tholmes at mcaschool.net  Tue Mar 22 19:06:35 2005
From: tholmes at mcaschool.net (Tim Holmes)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:06:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages not getting through
Message-ID: <BFE3AAE369B17F46A301FEBED9FD14640E8A9C@srvexch02.mcaschool.net>

Good Afternoon folks

I have just set up a mailman server, and have run into a bit of a config
issue I think.

The list is called MCAINFO, and I am the owner of the list and the
administrator for the mailman box.  My owner address is tholmes at ....

I want to configure the list so that the moderators can post but no one
else -- its an information list, not a discussion list.

I have joined the list using a different address (my home addy)
w8tah at ....

When I try to post from w8tah - nothing happens -- which is as it should
be

When I try to post from tholmes (the moderator) -- nothing happens --
which is most defiantly not as it should be

Also no messages show up in the archive

I'm kinda new to this, and Im sure I have missed something some place,
but I cant find it, and im not seeing it in the manuals anywhere (that's
not saying its not there)

TIM


Tim Holmes
 
IT Manager / Webmaster
Medina Christian Academy
A Higher Standard...
 
Jeremiah 33:3
Jeremiah 29:11
Esther 4:14




From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 22 19:16:21 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 10:16:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages not getting through
In-Reply-To: <BFE3AAE369B17F46A301FEBED9FD14640E8A9C@srvexch02.mcaschool.net>
Message-ID: <PC17442005032210162109848f1ae06d@msapiro>

Tim Holmes wrote:
>
>I want to configure the list so that the moderators can post but no one
>else -- its an information list, not a discussion list.


See the FAQ wizard at
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
and search for one-way.


>When I try to post from tholmes (the moderator) -- nothing happens --
>which is most defiantly not as it should be
>
>Also no messages show up in the archive

Search the FAQ wizard for troubleshooting.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From olivetti at itc.it  Tue Mar 22 19:45:49 2005
From: olivetti at itc.it (Emanuele Olivetti)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 19:45:49 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachment only in web archives
Message-ID: <20050322184549.GA31400@eloy.itc.it>

Hi,
Is it possible to avoid sending attachments to all list subscribers
and have those attachments only in web archives? It would be nice if
only the url of the attachment in in web archive would be sent to
subscribers instead of the whole attachments (or nothing).

Is it possible to configure like this?

Thanks in advance,

Emanuele


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 22 20:22:49 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 11:22:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] attachment only in web archives
In-Reply-To: <20050322184549.GA31400@eloy.itc.it>
Message-ID: <PC1744200503221122490687fab23c20@msapiro>

Emanuele Olivetti wrote:
>
>Is it possible to avoid sending attachments to all list subscribers
>and have those attachments only in web archives? It would be nice if
>only the url of the attachment in in web archive would be sent to
>subscribers instead of the whole attachments (or nothing).
>
>Is it possible to configure like this?

This feature is included in Mailman 2.1.6 - currently in late beta.

There is also a patch at
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=904850&group_id=103&atid=300103
for prior versions.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From rabbie at commoncents.net.au  Tue Mar 22 21:04:39 2005
From: rabbie at commoncents.net.au (Rabbie Zalaf)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 07:04:39 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman admin page is blank.
In-Reply-To: <aef4be3d85e5e9779a04c20e4f1e1007@onjapan.net>
References: <64049.203.134.1.70.1111441832.squirrel@mail.commoncents.net.au>
	<aef4be3d85e5e9779a04c20e4f1e1007@onjapan.net>
Message-ID: <12009.203.134.1.70.1111521879.squirrel@mail.commoncents.net.au>

Actually,

I meant:

http://www.commoncents.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/test/

and I added

ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/mailman /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/

And

<Directory /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman>
        Options ExecCGI
</Directory>

And its still blank.

and
Jim Tittsler said:
> On Mar 22, 2005, at 06:50, Rabbie Zalaf wrote:
>
>> When I go to my web admin page for mailman, the page is just blank and
>> nothing apepars in my log files.
>> site is:
>>
>> http://www.commoncents.net.au/cgi-bin/admin/test/
>
> Don't you mean http://www.commoncents.net.au/mailman/admin/test/  ?
>
> Actually, neither works for me.  Double check your Apache configuration
>  (especially the ScriptAlias line).
>
>
> --
> Jim Tittsler             http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
> Python Starship          http://Starship.Python.net/
> Ringo MUG Tokyo          http://www.ringo.net/rss.html


Rabbie Zalaf
PC / Network Consultant
Common Cents Solutions
www.commoncents.net.au

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
VERSION: 3.1
GIT d++ s:>s-:- a23 C++++ L U+++
P+ L+++>$L+++++ E--- W+++ w-- M--
t+++ G++
-----END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----




From hmag at ozemail.com.au  Tue Mar 22 21:37:47 2005
From: hmag at ozemail.com.au (Terry Allen)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 07:37:47 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Security update for 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <p0620072ebe65940542ff@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <p06210202be6590f48894@[203.53.37.182]>
	<p0620072ebe65940542ff@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <p06210201be662fba0ee0@[203.53.37.182]>

>At 8:09 PM +1100 2005-03-22, Terry Allen wrote:
>
>>  	I tried applying the security patch for 2.1.5 which is listed on the
>>  website - but got a number of errors - can anyone outline the procedure
>>  for implementing the patch please, whether it's by running the patch
>>  or replacing lines of code within certain files - any assistance would
>>  be appreciated.
>
>	You need to use the program "patch" to apply the patch as 
>provided.  Note that Python is sensitive to indentation and the use 
>of tab characters versus spaces, so you can't just cut-n-paste what 
>you see.  You either need to make sure that the indentation 
>perfectly matches what is present in the files being modified, or 
>you need to use the program "patch" to do that for you.
>
>	If you have stored the security patch in a file called 
>"patchfile", and you have placed that file in the appropriate 
>directory, it should be as simple as this:
>
>		# patch < patchfile
>
>	And the program should be able to figure out the rest by 
>reading the patchfile and applying that to the code in the 
>appropriate places.
>
>>  	For information, the system I am trying to update is OSX 10.3.8 with
>>  Mailman 2.1.5 & the developers tools installed. Many thanks.
>
>	At the command-line prompt, do "man patch" to see how this 
>program works.
Hi again,
	Thanks Brad - I should have outlined that I had already tried 
running patch on that .txt file - here's the problem I am getting:

[server:mailman/mailman/cgi] root# patch < CAN-2005-0202.txt
patching file private.py
Reversed (or previously applied) patch detected!  Assume -R? [n] n
Apply anyway? [n] y
Hunk #1 FAILED at 1.
1 out of 2 hunks FAILED -- saving rejects to file private.py.rej
[server:mailman/mailman/cgi] root#

	The output into the .rej file has only the comments at the 
start of private.py - I ran the patch 3 times but on the second time 
I answered Y on the reverse apply question, then the 3rd time, it ran 
without error. does this indicate to you that I have already applied 
the patch successfully?
-- 

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___________________________________________________________________
hEARd

Postal Address:
	hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd,	Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia
Internet -
	WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com
EMAIL: hmag at ozemail.com.au
Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400
Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400
-----------------------------------------------
Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994
-----------------------------------------------


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 22 22:01:26 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:01:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman admin page is blank.
In-Reply-To: <12009.203.134.1.70.1111521879.squirrel@mail.commoncents.net.au>
Message-ID: <PC17442005032213012609534a30ab93@msapiro>

Rabbie Zalaf wrote:
>
>I meant:
>
>http://www.commoncents.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/test/
>
>and I added
>
>ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/mailman /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/

The more normal thing would be

ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/

for the Apache config and

http://www.commoncents.net.au/mailman/admin/test/

for the URL, but what you have should work.

I tried all of

http://www.commoncents.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/test
http://www.commoncents.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/admin
http://www.commoncents.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/test
http://www.commoncents.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo

The second and fourth look 'normal' except that the admin page lists
'test' as a public list and the listinfo page says there are no public
lists.

As you note, the admin/test page is empty. The listinfo/test URL
produces a

Bug in Mailman version 2.0.11

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

page. I'm guessing you have group/permission problems. There should be
errors in your Mailman 'error' log now.

BTW, if as it seems this is a new installation, why are you installing
2.0.11 instead of 2.1.5 or 2.1.6 beta?


--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 22 22:17:27 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:17:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Security update for 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <p06210201be662fba0ee0@[203.53.37.182]>
Message-ID: <PC1744200503221317270453af0c2a40@msapiro>

Terry Allen wrote:

>I should have outlined that I had already tried 
>running patch on that .txt file - here's the problem I am getting:
>
>[server:mailman/mailman/cgi] root# patch < CAN-2005-0202.txt
>patching file private.py
>Reversed (or previously applied) patch detected!  Assume -R? [n] n
>Apply anyway? [n] y
>Hunk #1 FAILED at 1.
>1 out of 2 hunks FAILED -- saving rejects to file private.py.rej
>[server:mailman/mailman/cgi] root#
>
>	The output into the .rej file has only the comments at the 
>start of private.py - I ran the patch 3 times but on the second time 
>I answered Y on the reverse apply question, then the 3rd time, it ran 
>without error. does this indicate to you that I have already applied 
>the patch successfully?

It looks like the first time, patch failed to apply the first hunk (the
Copyright notice) because it had already been applied. The second
time, answering Y to the 'reverse' question effectively removed the
patch, and the third try successfully reapplied the patch.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Mar 22 22:28:45 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 22:28:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Security update for 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <p06210201be662fba0ee0@[203.53.37.182]>
References: <p06210202be6590f48894@[203.53.37.182]>
	<p0620072ebe65940542ff@[10.0.1.3]>
	<p06210201be662fba0ee0@[203.53.37.182]>
Message-ID: <p06200738be663d8bfeca@[10.0.1.3]>

At 7:37 AM +1100 2005-03-23, Terry Allen wrote:

>  	The output into the .rej file has only the comments at the start
>  of private.py - I ran the patch 3 times but on the second time I
>  answered Y on the reverse apply question, then the 3rd time, it
>  ran without error. does this indicate to you that I have already
>  applied the patch successfully?

	Hmm.  Not sure.  Have you compared the file being patched against 
what it used to be, and what was in the patch?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From jdennis at redhat.com  Tue Mar 22 22:56:08 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:56:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Security update for 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <p06200738be663d8bfeca@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <p06210202be6590f48894@[203.53.37.182]>
	<p0620072ebe65940542ff@[10.0.1.3]>
	<p06210201be662fba0ee0@[203.53.37.182]>
	<p06200738be663d8bfeca@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <1111528569.3154.36.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Tue, 2005-03-22 at 22:28 +0100, Brad Knowles wrote:
> At 7:37 AM +1100 2005-03-23, Terry Allen wrote:
> 
> >  	The output into the .rej file has only the comments at the start
> >  of private.py - I ran the patch 3 times but on the second time I
> >  answered Y on the reverse apply question, then the 3rd time, it
> >  ran without error. does this indicate to you that I have already
> >  applied the patch successfully?
> 
> 	Hmm.  Not sure.  Have you compared the file being patched against 
> what it used to be, and what was in the patch?

Here's a hint. The change is only a couple of lines, if you're having
trouble applying the patch open up a text editor and manually
cut-n-paste the changes. Or download the 2.1.6 beta and copy private.py
from it into your installation.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Mar 22 22:53:10 2005
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:53:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing an address with a tab in it.
Message-ID: <97d51107e5a423bb965c49714eebfc12@plaidworks.com>

Somehow (I don't know), one of my lists has ended up with a user 
subscribed as "<tab>fred at fred.com". because of taht, all the normal 
unsub stuff works, and I can't ofr the life of me remember the magic 
incantation to get mailman to let me unsubscribe an address with a 
funky character in it. Any hints, folks?



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 23 00:51:34 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 15:51:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing an address with a tab in it.
In-Reply-To: <97d51107e5a423bb965c49714eebfc12@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <PC17442005032215513405461341b124@msapiro>

Chuq Von Rospach wrote:

>Somehow (I don't know), one of my lists has ended up with a user 
>subscribed as "<tab>fred at fred.com". because of taht, all the normal 
>unsub stuff works, and I can't ofr the life of me remember the magic 
>incantation to get mailman to let me unsubscribe an address with a 
>funky character in it. Any hints, folks?


>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Article 3.13


--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jwt at OnJapan.net  Wed Mar 23 01:58:59 2005
From: jwt at OnJapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 09:58:59 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman admin page is blank.
In-Reply-To: <PC17442005032213012609534a30ab93@msapiro>
References: <12009.203.134.1.70.1111521879.squirrel@mail.commoncents.net.au>
	<PC17442005032213012609534a30ab93@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20050323005858.GB7569@server.onjapan.net>

On Tue, Mar 22, 2005 at 01:01:26PM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Rabbie Zalaf wrote:
> >
> >I meant:
> >
> >http://www.commoncents.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/test/
> >
> >and I added
> >
> >ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/mailman /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/
> 
> The more normal thing would be
> 
> ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/
> 
> for the Apache config and
> 
> http://www.commoncents.net.au/mailman/admin/test/
> 
> for the URL, but what you have should work.

And note that if you do want the cgi-bin to be part of your URL
for some reason, make sure it is included in DEFAULT_URL in
your mm_cfg.py (which will be reflected in the web_page_url
value for each list).

> BTW, if as it seems this is a new installation, why are you installing
> 2.0.11 instead of 2.1.5 or 2.1.6 beta?

I have to reiterate Mark's question... Are you *sure* you want
to install a 3+ year old version?  2.1.5 contains numerous
improvements.  (And the 2.1.6beta contains fixes for some of
the known problems in 2.1.5.)

-- 
Jim Tittsler             http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship          http://Starship.Python.net/
Ringo MUG Tokyo          http://www.ringo.net/rss.html



From rabsmobile at commoncents.net.au  Wed Mar 23 03:47:53 2005
From: rabsmobile at commoncents.net.au (Rabbie Zalaf)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:47:53 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman admin page is blank.
In-Reply-To: <20050323005858.GB7569@server.onjapan.net>
Message-ID: <422C99260049E6D3@smtp01.syd.iprimus.net.au> (added by
	postmaster@iprimus.com.au)

Thanks Jim & Mark, 

I know it sounds like im some sicko with a Mailman 2.0 fetish..

Its just that I installed mailman using woody's apt-get install mailman. 

Im just gonna scrap it and install the source from the python site.

Thanks for all your help guy's.

Rabbie.

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+rabsmobile=commoncents.net.au at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+rabsmobile=commoncents.net.au at python.org] On
Behalf Of Jim Tittsler
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 11:59 AM
To: rabbie at commoncents.net.au
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman admin page is blank.

On Tue, Mar 22, 2005 at 01:01:26PM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Rabbie Zalaf wrote:
> >
> >I meant:
> >
> >http://www.commoncents.net.au/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/test/
> >
> >and I added
> >
> >ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/mailman /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/
> 
> The more normal thing would be
> 
> ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/cgi-bin/mailman/
> 
> for the Apache config and
> 
> http://www.commoncents.net.au/mailman/admin/test/
> 
> for the URL, but what you have should work.

And note that if you do want the cgi-bin to be part of your URL
for some reason, make sure it is included in DEFAULT_URL in
your mm_cfg.py (which will be reflected in the web_page_url
value for each list).

> BTW, if as it seems this is a new installation, why are you installing
> 2.0.11 instead of 2.1.5 or 2.1.6 beta?

I have to reiterate Mark's question... Are you *sure* you want
to install a 3+ year old version?  2.1.5 contains numerous
improvements.  (And the 2.1.6beta contains fixes for some of
the known problems in 2.1.5.)

-- 
Jim Tittsler             http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship          http://Starship.Python.net/
Ringo MUG Tokyo          http://www.ringo.net/rss.html

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/rabsmobile%40commoncent
s.net.au

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp




From jwblist at olympus.net  Wed Mar 23 04:17:23 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 19:17:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman admin page is blank.
In-Reply-To: <422C99260049E6D3@smtp01.syd.iprimus.net.au> (added by
	postmaster@iprimus.com.au>
Message-ID: <BE661FC3.3766%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 3/22/2005 18:47, "Rabbie Zalaf" <rabsmobile at commoncents.net.au> wrote:

> Thanks Jim & Mark,
> 
> I know it sounds like im some sicko with a Mailman 2.0 fetish..
> 
> Its just that I installed mailman using woody's apt-get install mailman.
> 
> Im just gonna scrap it and install the source from the python site.
> 
> Thanks for all your help guy's.
> 
> Rabbie.
>

Although I haven't tried, you can probably find backports of something in
the 2.1 series for your installation.

However, anything much later and you'll also need to find a backport of a
modern Python version.

  --John



From GHerrera at clayton.com  Tue Mar 22 17:38:08 2005
From: GHerrera at clayton.com (Gildemar Herrera)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 11:38:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman
Message-ID: <2F03932DDFBC1B4299CBCEBFE563E94E57409B@CGI-EXCH03.cgi.clayton.com>

I setup the mailman on my website www.robertoiarussi.com
<http://www.robertoiarussi.com/> , under mailing list.  I can't use it.
Can you help me?  Please look at the website.  I've tried everything and
I can't get people to sign on.  The archive list is not being created.
It says that you have joined but nothing happens on my end.

 

Thank you.

 

Gilda Herrera

Programmer/Analyst

CLAYTON

T: 203.926.5769

F: 203.926.4298

gherrera at clayton.com

http://www.clayton.com

 

 

 

 



From golfcourse at turkeymtngc.com  Tue Mar 22 20:51:39 2005
From: golfcourse at turkeymtngc.com (Terry Smith)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:51:39 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] AOL Issues
Message-ID: <001e01c52f18$924a7180$6500a8c0@home1>

Hello,
           I read a article you posted on a website about aol and bouncing email due 554 error....could you tell me if you have heard any information on this or what causes the problem

please email me at the following address

amok at datakeep.net 

From rangerpress at curriculumconnection.net  Tue Mar 22 18:46:45 2005
From: rangerpress at curriculumconnection.net (Stephen Beck)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 09:46:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] donload clients to csv or exel
Message-ID: <20050322211348.C01941E4002@bag.python.org>

How do I download my client list to a csv or exel file for backup?

 

Stephen Beck

...who has just come out with a new DVD series titled, "How to Start Your
Own Business...For Families and Teens!"

See it here:

http://www.familyebiz.com/dvdsalesletter.htm

You can be an affiliate for this DVD series here:

http://www.familyebiz.com/affiliates.htm

Also, sign up for our FREE Family Entrepreneur Newsletter here:

http://www.1shoppingcart.com/app/contact.asp?id=63966

See our websites at:

http://www.curriculumconnection.net/

http://www.familyebiz.com <http://www.familyebiz.com/> 

 

-------------- next part --------------
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.0 - Release Date: 3/21/2005

From vijay at calsoftinc.com  Wed Mar 23 06:49:57 2005
From: vijay at calsoftinc.com (Vijay Kumar)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 11:19:57 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Vijay - Mailman bug report
Message-ID: <20050323055308.0B0E41E4003@bag.python.org>

Hi,

 

Have installed and configured Mailman 2.1.5 on RH 9.0 system 

I tired to create the first mailing list and encountered with a bug.
Attached is the screen shot. 

 

Please let me know how I could move ahead ? 

I am sorry if  have posted this in the wrong mailing list. 

 

Regards,

Vijay Kumar


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Mar 23 09:07:52 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 09:07:52 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] donload clients to csv or exel
In-Reply-To: <20050322211348.C01941E4002@bag.python.org>
References: <20050322211348.C01941E4002@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <p06200743be66d3c233e3@[10.0.1.3]>

At 9:46 AM -0800 2005-03-22, Stephen Beck wrote:

>  How do I download my client list to a csv or exel file for backup?

	You can use the "list_members" command (see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.009.htp>) 
to give you a listing of all subscribers, but this is not in CSV or 
Excel format.  You'd need to convert the output to something suitable.

>  Stephen Beck
>
>  ...who has just come out with a new DVD series titled, "How to Start Your
>  Own Business...For Families and Teens!"
>
>  See it here:
>
>  http://www.familyebiz.com/dvdsalesletter.htm
>
>  You can be an affiliate for this DVD series here:
>
>  http://www.familyebiz.com/affiliates.htm
>
>  Also, sign up for our FREE Family Entrepreneur Newsletter here:
>
>  http://www.1shoppingcart.com/app/contact.asp?id=63966
>
>  See our websites at:
>
>  http://www.curriculumconnection.net/
>
>  http://www.familyebiz.com <http://www.familyebiz.com/>
>
>
>
>
>  Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg=cert; charset=us-ascii
>  Content-Disposition: inline
>  Content-Description: "AVG certification"
>
>  No virus found in this outgoing message.
>  Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>  Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.0 - Release Date: 3/21/2005

	Can you trim your signature please?  A one-line question and then 
thirty-three lines of signature is kind of excessive.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Mar 23 09:10:25 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 09:10:25 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Vijay - Mailman bug report
In-Reply-To: <20050323055308.0B0E41E4003@bag.python.org>
References: <20050323055308.0B0E41E4003@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <p06200744be66d4be6ed0@[10.0.1.3]>

At 11:19 AM +0530 2005-03-23, Vijay Kumar wrote:

>  Have installed and configured Mailman 2.1.5 on RH 9.0 system
>
>  I tired to create the first mailing list and encountered with a bug.
>  Attached is the screen shot.

	The screen shot was stripped by the list.  Could you describe the 
problem, or include the text of the error message?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From barnad at rmki.kfki.hu  Wed Mar 23 12:30:11 2005
From: barnad at rmki.kfki.hu (Daniel Barna)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:30:11 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] private archives authentication
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0503231227400.30453@rfo8.rmki.kfki.hu>

Hello
I tried to set up mailing lists using mailman on SuSE-9.2 (my own mailman
installation, not the SuSE package)
 Everything works fine, but I can not access the private archives of the
lists using the url http://some.host.com/mailman/private/listname
when I enter a valid e-mail address and password for the given list, the
same login page is returned.
Does anyone have an idea why?
thanks
Daniel


From vijay at calsoftinc.com  Wed Mar 23 12:28:10 2005
From: vijay at calsoftinc.com (Vijay Kumar)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:58:10 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Vijay - Mailman bug 2.1.5  
Message-ID: <20050323113119.B8B461E4005@bag.python.org>

Hi, 

Have installed and configured Mailman 2.1.5 on RH 9.0 system
I tired to create the first mailing list and encountered with a bug.

Below is the text version of the bug. 

Can someone tell me , how to move ahead now ? 

Do I need to reinstall and older version and re-configure everything from
scratch ? 

Regards
Vijay Kumar. 

Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5

We're sorry, we hit a bug!
If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of
this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what
happened. Thanks! 

Traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
    main()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 55, in main
    process_request(doc, cgidata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 226, in
process_request
    sys.modules[modname].create(mlist, cgi=1)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 232, in create
    _update_maps()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 53, in _update_maps
    raise RuntimeError, msg % (acmd, status, errstr)
RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias
/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases (status: 1, Operation not permitted)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-

Python information:
Variable Value
sys.version 2.2.2 (#1, Feb 24 2003, 19:13:11) [GCC 3.2.2 20030222 (Red Hat
Linux 3.2.2-4)] sys.executable /usr/bin/python sys.prefix /usr
sys.exec_prefix /usr sys.path /usr sys.platform linux2
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Environment variables:
Variable Value
CONTENT_LENGTH  146
HTTP_PRAGMA  no-cache
CONTENT_TYPE  application/x-www-form-urlencoded HTTP_COOKIE
mailman+admin=28020000006925f13f42732800000038386132346235323364326636656330
326533653139343939393534343335333432303734653262
SCRIPT_FILENAME  /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/create PYTHONPATH
/usr/local/mailman SERVER_SOFTWARE  Apache/2.0.40 (Red Hat Linux)
SERVER_ADMIN  root at localhost SCRIPT_NAME  /mailman/create SERVER_SIGNATURE
Apache/2.0.40 Server at newganesh.intranet.calsoftinc.com Port 80
REQUEST_METHOD  POST HTTP_HOST  newganesh.intranet.calsoftinc.com
SERVER_PROTOCOL  HTTP/1.0  
QUERY_STRING   
REQUEST_URI  /mailman/create
HTTP_ACCEPT  image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, image/pjpeg,
application/x-shockwave-flash, application/vnd.ms-excel,
application/vnd.ms-powerpoint, application/msword, */* HTTP_USER_AGENT
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.0; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)
HTTP_CONNECTION  Keep-Alive HTTP_REFERER
http://newganesh.intranet.calsoftinc.com/mailman/create
SERVER_NAME  newganesh.intranet.calsoftinc.com REMOTE_ADDR  172.16.0.137
REMOTE_PORT  2274 HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE  en-us UNIQUE_ID
dEtz7awQAMwAABnFAlIAAAAE SERVER_PORT  80 GATEWAY_INTERFACE  CGI/1.1
SERVER_ADDR  172.16.0.204 DOCUMENT_ROOT  /var/www/html  



From jdennis at redhat.com  Wed Mar 23 15:29:06 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 09:29:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Vijay - Mailman bug 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <20050323113119.B8B461E4005@bag.python.org>
References: <20050323113119.B8B461E4005@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <1111588146.3267.5.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Wed, 2005-03-23 at 16:58 +0530, Vijay Kumar wrote:
> RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias
> /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases (status: 1, Operation not permitted)

This is not a bug in mailman. Mailman has been asked to run a separate
program when you add a new list, postfix's postalias command. It is
postalias that is failing. I suspect its failing because postalias does
not have the correct permissions when it runs to modifiy the postfix
alias database. Did you read the instructions for how to set this up in
README.POSTFIX? Is the alias database you're pointing to owner and group
"mailman"?
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From kev at bolton-sfc.ac.uk  Wed Mar 23 15:36:50 2005
From: kev at bolton-sfc.ac.uk (Kevin Ratcliffe)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:36:50 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 'Group mismatch error' problem
Message-ID: <42417F02.90707@bolton-sfc.ac.uk>

Hi

Can anybody help me please.  I've installed Mailman as per the install 
instructions.  I am using exim as my MTA.
I configured mailman with './configure --with-mail-gid=mail 
--with-cgi-gid=apache'
I installed exim with the user and group 'mail'.
I followed the instructions to configure exim for mailman.
My MTA seems to be working fine.
But I cant seem to get any mailing lists to work.
I can sbuscribe to groups but never get an email reply.

when I do a '$MM_PREFIX/mail/mailman post', I get:

Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
wrapper script to be executed as group "mail", but
the system's mail server executed the mail script as
group "root".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the
script as group "mail", or re-run configure,
providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=root'.

when I check Mailmans smtp-failure log, I get:

Mar 23 14:27:36 2005 (1390) Low level smtp error: (111, 'Connection 
refused'), msgid: <mailman.0.1111586446.1267.mailman at magic.bolton-sfc.ac.uk>
Mar 23 14:27:36 2005 (1390) delivery to kev at bolton-sfc.ac.uk failed with 
code -1: (111, 'Connection refused')

I am assuming that exim cannot do the delivery because it cannot run the 
'$MM_PREFIX/mail/mailman post' script.

Can someone please give me a clue where I am going wrong.

Kev


From heather at madrone.com  Wed Mar 23 16:22:29 2005
From: heather at madrone.com (Heather Madrone)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 07:22:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] AOL Issues
In-Reply-To: <001e01c52f18$924a7180$6500a8c0@home1>
References: <001e01c52f18$924a7180$6500a8c0@home1>
Message-ID: <p0621020dbe6736f1469a@[192.168.123.100]>

At 1:51 PM -0600 3/22/05, Terry Smith wrote:
>           I read a article you posted on a website about aol and 
>bouncing email due 554 error....could you tell me if you have heard 
>any information on this or what causes the problem

Hoo boy, would I like a good answer to this question!  I hear that the
button to report mail as spam is right next to the delete key and that
AOL encourages people to report unwanted email as spam.  So, when
a person gets tired of receiving mail from a mailing list, they can just
report it as spam and it goes away.

This has been happening on and off for some time.  There's no good
way to tell which address is reporting the list as spam (AOL certainly
won't tell you), so it cannot be easily removed.

I've finally gotten to the point that I have sent private mail to all AOL
subscribers letting them know that AOL is refusing delivery of their
list mail, suggesting that they complain to AOL, and recommending
that they get a free hotmail, yahoo, or gmail account for their list mail.

I'm thinking of updating all my list information pages to let AOL users
know that their ISP refuses delivery of many list postings and that they
should consider a different service provider.

Anyway, it's not a Mailman problem; it's an AOL problem.

-- 
Heather Madrone  (heather at madrone.com)  http://www.madrone.com

A rolling stone gathers no mass.


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 23 18:43:59 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 09:43:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman
In-Reply-To: <2F03932DDFBC1B4299CBCEBFE563E94E57409B@CGI-EXCH03.cgi.clayton.com>
Message-ID: <PC1744200503230943590890bf50b475@msapiro>

Gildemar Herrera wrote:

>I setup the mailman on my website www.robertoiarussi.com
><http://www.robertoiarussi.com/> , under mailing list.  I can't use it.
>Can you help me?  Please look at the website.  I've tried everything and
>I can't get people to sign on.  The archive list is not being created.
>It says that you have joined but nothing happens on my end.

I looked at the source HTML of your "subscribe form" at
http://www.robertoiarussi.com/mailing%20list.htm, and I see no
<form></form> tags

See
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Article 4.33

It looks from some of your HTML that you may have read this FAQ and
mis-interpreted "The only required parts of this form are the email
text box and the submit button - edit or remove the others as you
like." This means you can edit or remove things within the form, but
you can't remove the <FORM Method=POST
ACTION="<SERVER>/mailman/subscribe/<LISTNAME>"> and </FORM> tags.

 
--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 23 18:58:25 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 09:58:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives missing on newly-created list
In-Reply-To: <v03130301be6749a26225@[192.168.123.10]>
Message-ID: <PC1744200503230958250156ad6b8e35@msapiro>

Charlie Summers wrote:
>
>   Can anyone point me to a "flowchart" of message flow though Mailman?

You could look at Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py, but thus doesn't
really show what I think you want - the part I think you're looking
for is compressed into

  joerandom ---> mylist ---> list members

Look in Defaults.py at the definition of GLOBAL_PIPELINE which defines
the flow through the various Mailman/Handlers/ modules.


>I'm particularly interested in when the ~/archives/private/<list>.mbox/<list>.mbox file is created, and when posts are written to it. Is it normal for a newly-created list _not_ to have that file created?

Yes, IIRC the directory is created with the list, but the file is not
created until it is needed.


>Is it normal for this file _not_ to exist even after a successful posting to the list? Is it normal for the post text to _only_ appear (based on grep -R) within the directury structure at ~/lists/<list>/digest.mbox and nowhere else?

Depending on list archiving and global archiving, maybe. Is archiving
turned on for the list? Is ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX set to 1 or 2? Default is 2
- see definitions in Defaults.py

If these things are all set for archiving to occur and the <list>.mbox
to be written, it's probably a group/permissions issue.

Have you looked at Mailman's 'error' log?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Mar 23 17:28:33 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 17:28:33 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] private archives authentication
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0503231227400.30453@rfo8.rmki.kfki.hu>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0503231227400.30453@rfo8.rmki.kfki.hu>
Message-ID: <p06200746be67499bd2e3@[10.0.1.3]>

At 12:30 PM +0100 2005-03-23, Daniel Barna wrote:

>   Everything works fine, but I can not access the private archives of the
>  lists using the url http://some.host.com/mailman/private/listname
>  when I enter a valid e-mail address and password for the given list, the
>  same login page is returned.

	This could be the "redirect" problem.  See 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Mar 23 17:27:34 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 17:27:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] AOL Issues
In-Reply-To: <p0621020dbe6736f1469a@[192.168.123.100]>
References: <001e01c52f18$924a7180$6500a8c0@home1>
	<p0621020dbe6736f1469a@[192.168.123.100]>
Message-ID: <p06200745be674949bf9b@[10.0.1.3]>

At 7:22 AM -0800 2005-03-23, Heather Madrone wrote:

>>            I read a article you posted on a website about aol and
>>bouncing email due 554 error....could you tell me if you have heard
>>any information on this or what causes the problem
>
>  Hoo boy, would I like a good answer to this question!  I hear that the
>  button to report mail as spam is right next to the delete key and that
>  AOL encourages people to report unwanted email as spam.  So, when
>  a person gets tired of receiving mail from a mailing list, they can just
>  report it as spam and it goes away.

	Speaking as the former Sr. Internet Administrator for AOL, I 
don't think that there will ever be a good answer to this question. 
See 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.042.htp> 
for some more info.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 23 19:17:28 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 10:17:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 'Group mismatch error' problem
In-Reply-To: <42417F02.90707@bolton-sfc.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1744200503231017280703849a49db@msapiro>

Kevin Ratcliffe wrote:
>
>Can anybody help me please.  I've installed Mailman as per the install 
>instructions.  I am using exim as my MTA.
>I configured mailman with './configure --with-mail-gid=mail 
>--with-cgi-gid=apache'
>I installed exim with the user and group 'mail'.
>I followed the instructions to configure exim for mailman.
>My MTA seems to be working fine.
>But I cant seem to get any mailing lists to work.
>I can sbuscribe to groups but never get an email reply.
>
>when I do a '$MM_PREFIX/mail/mailman post', I get:
>
>Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
>wrapper script to be executed as group "mail", but
>the system's mail server executed the mail script as
>group "root".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the
>script as group "mail", or re-run configure,
>providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=root'.


This happens when you run the command as user/group root. What happens
when Exim runs it? If exim (or you) runs it as group 'mail', it should
be fine.

>
>when I check Mailmans smtp-failure log, I get:
>
>Mar 23 14:27:36 2005 (1390) Low level smtp error: (111, 'Connection 
>refused'), msgid: <mailman.0.1111586446.1267.mailman at magic.bolton-sfc.ac.uk>
>Mar 23 14:27:36 2005 (1390) delivery to kev at bolton-sfc.ac.uk failed with 
>code -1: (111, 'Connection refused')
>
>I am assuming that exim cannot do the delivery because it cannot run the 
>'$MM_PREFIX/mail/mailman post' script.

No, that is probably not the reason since the '$MM_PREFIX/mail/mailman
post' script is run for an incoming post and the smtp-failure message
above is related to an attempt by Mailman to send some message
(generated by mailman judging from the msgid) to you. Mailman is
unable to connect to the outgoing MTA via SMTP. If you haven't changed
SMTPHOST and SMTPPORT from their defaults in Defaults.py, this means
Mailman can't connect to 'localhost' port 25. This is probably an Exim
or system configuration issue, not a Mailman problem per se.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ifetch at du.edu  Wed Mar 23 19:34:31 2005
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 11:34:31 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Accepting "implicit destination" messages based on
	other headers?
Message-ID: <20050323112722.L14123@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>

Hello,

    I'm wondering whether it is currently possible, or whether there is 
something on the drawing board, to allow accepting of messages normally 
held for "implicit destination" based on other headers than To or CC?   We 
would like to accept certain messages based on another header, without 
opening things up to much by putting something overly general in 
acceptable_aliases.


Thank you,
Ivan Fetch.


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 23 19:56:11 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 10:56:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives missing on newly-created list
In-Reply-To: <v03130305be67621f2663@[192.168.123.10]>
Message-ID: <PC17442005032310561108758ac8a996@msapiro>

Charlie Summers wrote:
>
>   Can I assume I have enough of a situation that I should start from the
>beginning and detail the issue? (It almost _has_ to be my fault somewhere,
>but I've replicated this same thing with _four_ clean installs, two from the
>RPM and two from the downloaded source following the "GNU Mailman -
>Installation Manual" item by item. Everything else, web, mail, seems just
>fine; only the archives are consistantly AWOL.)

I think I have the answer. I tried to look up your original post in the
Mailman-users archive to see if you'd mentioned your platform because
I was thinking of an SeLinux issue. Guess what? Neither of your posts
in this thread are in the archive. The second post which I received by
direct Cc: contains an

X-No-Archive: yes

header. I'm sure if you post to your list without that header, your
post will be archived.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 23 20:49:41 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 11:49:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Accepting "implicit destination" messages based
	onother headers?
In-Reply-To: <20050323112722.L14123@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
Message-ID: <PC1744200503231149410625e761b27a@msapiro>

Ivan Fetch wrote:
>
>    I'm wondering whether it is currently possible, or whether there is 
>something on the drawing board, to allow accepting of messages normally 
>held for "implicit destination" based on other headers than To or CC?   We 
>would like to accept certain messages based on another header, without 
>opening things up to much by putting something overly general in 
>acceptable_aliases.

An

Approved: <list_password>

header will work. Beyond that, I'm not aware of anything available or
"on the drawing board". You can check http://www.list.org/todo.html
and http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=350103

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ddewey at cyberthugs.com  Wed Mar 23 20:59:00 2005
From: ddewey at cyberthugs.com (Dave Dewey)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:59:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] AOL Issues
In-Reply-To: <p0621020dbe6736f1469a@[192.168.123.100]>
References: <001e01c52f18$924a7180$6500a8c0@home1>
	<p0621020dbe6736f1469a@[192.168.123.100]>
Message-ID: <20050323195900.GA8343@meatwad.cyberthugs.com>

Quoting Heather Madrone (heather at madrone.com):


> This has been happening on and off for some time.  There's no good
> way to tell which address is reporting the list as spam (AOL certainly
> won't tell you), so it cannot be easily removed.

Actually there is.  If you use VERP and setup a feedback loop through AOL,
the complainer's email address is included in the complaint sent back to you
through the loop.

dave


From md69 at md69.co.uk  Wed Mar 23 21:18:47 2005
From: md69 at md69.co.uk (Martin Dennett)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 20:18:47 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] AOL Issues
In-Reply-To: <20050323195900.GA8343@meatwad.cyberthugs.com>
References: <001e01c52f18$924a7180$6500a8c0@home1>	<p0621020dbe6736f1469a@[192.168.123.100]>
	<20050323195900.GA8343@meatwad.cyberthugs.com>
Message-ID: <4241CF27.2090509@md69.co.uk>



Dave Dewey wrote:

>Quoting Heather Madrone (heather at madrone.com):
>
>
>  
>
>>This has been happening on and off for some time.  There's no good
>>way to tell which address is reporting the list as spam (AOL certainly
>>won't tell you), so it cannot be easily removed.
>>    
>>
>
>Actually there is.  If you use VERP and setup a feedback loop through AOL,
>the complainer's email address is included in the complaint sent back to you
>through the loop.
>
Having had a similar problem over the last 48 hours or so, it appears 
that the IP address of my mailing list doesn't have a Reverse DNS, as 
opposed to my web site which does. I just have to contact my mail 
provider to get the issue sorted and AOL will add that IP to their White 
List, and hopefully the issue will be solved.

Quite why it's taken AOL over a month with a steady flow of traffic to 
realise this is another issue....

MD


From Matthew.Marshall at noaa.gov  Wed Mar 23 21:50:16 2005
From: Matthew.Marshall at noaa.gov (Matthew A. Marshall)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:50:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail -r?
Message-ID: <4241D688.6020903@noaa.gov>

Hello. I've just converted from mailman 2.0.x to mailman 2.1.x.  After 
sending the confirmation back to the list-request email address, I 
receive this error:

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail: invalid option -- r
Usage: mail [-iInv] [-s subject] [-c cc-addr] [-b bcc-addr] to-addr ...
            [- sendmail-options ...]
       mail [-iInNv] -f [name]
       mail [-iInNv] [-u user]
554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1




Also, if I attempt to run the mailman command from the command-line I 
receive this:

Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be
executed as one of the following groups:
[mail, postfix, mailman, nobody],
but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group: "root".
Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as one of these groups:
[mail, postfix, mailman, nobody],
or re-run configure providing the command line option:
'--with-mail-gid=root'.

The mailman command is chgrp'd to mailman with the group sticky bit enabled.


Has anyone else experienced this same problem?

Thanks,
--Matt


From charlie at lofcom.com  Wed Mar 23 21:57:26 2005
From: charlie at lofcom.com (Charlie Summers)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:57:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives missing on newly-created list
In-Reply-To: <PC17442005032310561108758ac8a996@msapiro>
References: <v03130305be67621f2663@[192.168.123.10]>
Message-ID: <v03130307be6787ba00e5@[192.168.123.10]>

At 1:56 PM -0500 3/23/05, Mark Sapiro is rumored to have typed:

> I think I have the answer.

   Bloody heck if you don't. I had forgotten all about adding that silly
header field a while back testing something _else._

   Aside from being embarassed, I _greatly_ appreciate the gentle help!

         Charlie




From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 23 22:04:40 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:04:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail -r?
In-Reply-To: <4241D688.6020903@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1744200503231304400515e72a5eab@msapiro>

Matthew A. Marshall wrote:

>Hello. I've just converted from mailman 2.0.x to mailman 2.1.x.  After 
>sending the confirmation back to the list-request email address, I 
>receive this error:
>
>   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>mail: invalid option -- r
>Usage: mail [-iInv] [-s subject] [-c cc-addr] [-b bcc-addr] to-addr ...
>            [- sendmail-options ...]
>       mail [-iInNv] -f [name]
>       mail [-iInNv] [-u user]
>554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1

What do your aliases look like for the list-request and other
addresses? Did you change them for 2.1.x?

They should be something like:

list: "|/path_to/mailman/mail/mailman post list"
list-request: "|/path_to/mailman/mail/mailman request list"
etc.

Or if you're using Exim, see http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html

>Also, if I attempt to run the mailman command from the command-line I 
>receive this:
>
>Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be
>executed as one of the following groups:
>[mail, postfix, mailman, nobody],
>but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group: "root".
>Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as one of these groups:
>[mail, postfix, mailman, nobody],
>or re-run configure providing the command line option:
>'--with-mail-gid=root'.


This is the expected response if you don't run the command as the same
group as your incoming MTA does.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jdennis at redhat.com  Wed Mar 23 22:40:35 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:40:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail -r?
In-Reply-To: <4241D688.6020903@noaa.gov>
References: <4241D688.6020903@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <1111614035.28329.8.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Wed, 2005-03-23 at 15:50 -0500, Matthew A. Marshall wrote:
> Hello. I've just converted from mailman 2.0.x to mailman 2.1.x.  After 
> sending the confirmation back to the list-request email address, I 
> receive this error:
> 
>    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> mail: invalid option -- r
> Usage: mail [-iInv] [-s subject] [-c cc-addr] [-b bcc-addr] to-addr ...
>             [- sendmail-options ...]
>        mail [-iInNv] -f [name]
>        mail [-iInNv] [-u user]
> 554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1

Who is giving you this error? When you reply in your MUA?

> Also, if I attempt to run the mailman command from the command-line I 
> receive this:
> 
> Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be
> executed as one of the following groups:
> [mail, postfix, mailman, nobody],
> but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group: "root".
> Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as one of these groups:
> [mail, postfix, mailman, nobody],
> or re-run configure providing the command line option:
> '--with-mail-gid=root'.
> 
> The mailman command is chgrp'd to mailman with the group sticky bit enabled.

Thats because "mailman" is a wrapper script meant to be executed by your
MTA, its not a command line program (e.g. what's in the mailman bin
directory). Mailman is guarding against anybody else executing what is
supposed to be a private command only to executed by an MTA. The list
presented to you in the error is a common list of of uid's that have the
permission to execute the command. You will need to either logon as one
of them or su to one of them.

P.S. I assume the only reason you're attempting to execute the mailman
command, is for testing purposes, one would never normally do this.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From jdennis at redhat.com  Wed Mar 23 22:44:24 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:44:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail -r?
In-Reply-To: <4241D688.6020903@noaa.gov>
References: <4241D688.6020903@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <1111614264.28329.11.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Wed, 2005-03-23 at 15:50 -0500, Matthew A. Marshall wrote:
> Hello. I've just converted from mailman 2.0.x to mailman 2.1.x.

Also, it just occurred to me, the aliases changed between 2.0 and 2.1,
do you still have the old aliases in your alias file?
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From golson at eicc.edu  Wed Mar 23 22:52:19 2005
From: golson at eicc.edu (Olson, Gary)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:52:19 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "User unknown in local recipient table" Error
Message-ID: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB8703F3E664@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>

I've got two lists up and running after a new install of Mailman 2.1.5
(RH E 3, Apache 2.0.46, Postfix 2.0.16) but when I went to create a
third list today everything went fine until I sent an email to test the
new list.   The message came right back with a "User unknown in local
recipient table" error.  I did a search of the
documentation/troubleshooting and this list's archives and tried
changing the  local_recipient_maps in main.cf for Postfix.  When I did
that I get a database loop for admin error for the new list that again
bounces the message back to me.  The other two lists run just fine with
the Postfix variable local_recipient_maps commented out.

The Postfix aliases are the same for all three lists except for the list
name, of course.

By the way, this third list created today was created with Mailman Admin
while the others I did from the command line.

Any ideas on why this is happening or where I might look to see what is
causing this?

Gary
Eastern Iowa Community College


   


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 23 23:11:36 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:11:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "User unknown in local recipient table" Error
In-Reply-To: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB8703F3E664@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
Message-ID: <PC1744200503231411360531620b55f7@msapiro>

Olson, Gary wrote:
>
>The Postfix aliases are the same for all three lists except for the list
>name, of course.
>
>By the way, this third list created today was created with Mailman Admin
>while the others I did from the command line.
>
>Any ideas on why this is happening or where I might look to see what is
>causing this?

Perhaps there is a permissions issue that prevented the postalias
command from updating the aliases.db file with the third list's
aliases when run from the web interface.

You could try running postalias manually and see if that fixes the
problem.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From golson at eicc.edu  Wed Mar 23 23:35:22 2005
From: golson at eicc.edu (Olson, Gary)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:35:22 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "User unknown in local recipient table" Error
Message-ID: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB8703F3E669@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>

 In rereading
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.009.htp
<Thanks Dan!>, I checked that data/aliases and data/aliases.db were both
group writable.  Oddly aliases.db was not but the aliases was.   When I
changed that to make it group writable all three lists now work.  Odd
that two lists worked with that setting and the one didn't.  Another
strange aspect is that there were no errors logged for this.  The latter
warrants further investigation.

Thanks for the help.

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 4:12 PM
To: Olson, Gary; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] "User unknown in local recipient table"
Error

Olson, Gary wrote:
>
>The Postfix aliases are the same for all three lists except for the 
>list name, of course.
>
>By the way, this third list created today was created with Mailman 
>Admin while the others I did from the command line.
>
>Any ideas on why this is happening or where I might look to see what is

>causing this?

Perhaps there is a permissions issue that prevented the postalias
command from updating the aliases.db file with the third list's aliases
when run from the web interface.

You could try running postalias manually and see if that fixes the
problem.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ashley at pcraft.com  Thu Mar 24 00:25:53 2005
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:25:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SUEXEC question
Message-ID: <4241FB01.2010307@pcraft.com>


    Mailman likes to have the scripts in /cgi-bin/ to be run with 
set-gid, however SUEXEC won't allow it.  So, a) can mailman work in a 
SUEXEC environment if I turn OFF the set-gid bit?, or b) what other 
caveats do I have to look out for with mailman running in a SUEXEC 
environment?

    I looked in the FAQ for 'suexec' but that search turned up empty, so 
I'm not sure if I'm not searching for the right term, or whether no one 
has tried it yet.  There is also no mention of suexec anywhere in the 
source files or documentation.

-- 
W | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere.
  +--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  IT Director / SysAdmin / Websmith             .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.            .     3550 Arapahoe Ave. #6
  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A.





From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar 24 00:41:04 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:41:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "User unknown in local recipient table" Error
In-Reply-To: <208D21E3AC92D449A31336961A46FB8703F3E669@eiccd-exch1.eiccd.net>
Message-ID: <PC1744200503231541040734f3b9e802@msapiro>

Olson, Gary wrote:

> In rereading
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.009.htp
><Thanks Dan!>, I checked that data/aliases and data/aliases.db were both
>group writable.  Oddly aliases.db was not but the aliases was.   When I
>changed that to make it group writable all three lists now work.  Odd
>that two lists worked with that setting and the one didn't.


Not really so odd. If you ran bin/newlist as a user who had permission
to write aliases.db (root?), everything could have succeeded even
though newalias might fail when run from the web script.


>Another
>strange aspect is that there were no errors logged for this.  The latter
>warrants further investigation.


True. When Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py runs POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD, it checks the
status (returned by os.system()) and logs any error in the 'error'
log. It's strange that nothing was logged here.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Thu Mar 24 01:16:25 2005
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 18:16:25 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] AOL Issues
In-Reply-To: <20050323195900.GA8343@meatwad.cyberthugs.com>
Message-ID: <BE6762F9.8C92%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 3/23/05 1:59 PM, Dave Dewey at ddewey at cyberthugs.com wrote:

> Quoting Heather Madrone (heather at madrone.com):
> 
> 
>> This has been happening on and off for some time.  There's no good
>> way to tell which address is reporting the list as spam (AOL certainly
>> won't tell you), so it cannot be easily removed.
> 
> Actually there is.  If you use VERP and setup a feedback loop through AOL,
> the complainer's email address is included in the complaint sent back to you
> through the loop.

That's what I do. Prior to turning on VERP for every message (originally I
had it set to VERP every tenth message), I had a couple reported as SPAM but
without VERP, the feedback loop is not much help.

So now everything is VERP'd plus there's a message at the bottom that says
"Attention AOL users: You have voluntarily subscribed to this list. If you
report this message as spam, you will be unsubscribed and banned from this
server." While it hasn't happened since, if one does get reported as spam, I
do mean it about banning them from the server. Right into my Postfix
sender_checks they will go.

-- Larry Stone
   larry at stonejongleux.com
   http://www.stonejongleux.com/
   




From Staven.Bruce at valleyair.org  Thu Mar 24 02:22:05 2005
From: Staven.Bruce at valleyair.org (Staven Bruce)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 17:22:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting Header For Postings
Message-ID: <0DFFBE2E899E804E9A5710F7071224381E850D@sjvapcd-mail>

We are using Mailman 2.1.5 and I was going through the FAQ's trying to
figure our the most secure way to set up an announce only list. I saw under
FAQ 3.11, the suggestion to moderate all users, and for the approved posters
to do the following:

	 "...A more secure alternative is for your approved posters to add
an Approved header to their postings as a  header, or as the first line of
the post)." 

My question is where and how do I "add an Approved header" ? I've been
through the Mailman interface, but I am a little confused on how to do this.
Any info you could pass along would be appreciated. 

Thanks,

Staven



From jwblist at olympus.net  Thu Mar 24 02:23:03 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 17:23:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives missing on newly-created list
In-Reply-To: <v03130301be6749a26225@[192.168.123.10]>
Message-ID: <BE675677.38C9%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 3/23/2005 8:44, "Charlie Summers" <charlie at lofcom.com> wrote:

>    Before I get to the meat of my situation, I need to verify that I do indeed
> have a problem; since I have not been able to find _any_ reference to anything
> similar through searching this list's archives, the web, et al, I'm not
> convinced this isn't either "installer-error" or even just a mistaken
> impression on how things are supposed to work.

Short of VERP, I've been considering configuring Exim on the mailing list
servers to send AOL messages one per connection, and through another of our
servers rather than directly.  That way the second of our servers will log
the "for blah at aol.com" phrase, and we'll have a chance.  I haven't done the
deed yet, so I don't yet know how (and moving to a newer Exim and Mailman
takes precedence when I have the time).

(It would be nice to be able to configure Mailman to VERP on a per receiving
mail domain basis.  But that's not in there.)

  --John





From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar 24 02:31:17 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 17:31:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting Header For Postings
In-Reply-To: <0DFFBE2E899E804E9A5710F7071224381E850D@sjvapcd-mail>
Message-ID: <PC1744200503231731170671e4e68310@msapiro>

Staven Bruce wrote:
>
>My question is where and how do I "add an Approved header" ? I've been
>through the Mailman interface, but I am a little confused on how to do this.
>Any info you could pass along would be appreciated. 

If your MUA supports it, you can include the

Approved: <list_password>

line anywhere in the actual headers of the message you send to the
list. If it isn't easy to do that, just make it the first line of the
message body and follow it with a blank line as sometimes the line
following gets stripped along with the Approved: line.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ashley at pcraft.com  Thu Mar 24 03:42:59 2005
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 19:42:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unknown mailer problems
Message-ID: <42422933.1050102@pcraft.com>


    So right now I'm faced with the following error:

----- Transcript of session follows -----
/usr/bin/python: can't open file '/home/mailman/lists/scripts/post'
554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 2

    However, here's my problem: that file does exist, in that path, so 
why would python complain that it can't open it?

-- 
H | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere.
  +--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  IT Director / SysAdmin / WebSmith             .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Imaging                       .     3550 Arapahoe Ave. #6
  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A. 





From ashley at pcraft.com  Thu Mar 24 03:50:58 2005
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 19:50:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unknown mailer problems
In-Reply-To: <42422933.1050102@pcraft.com>
References: <42422933.1050102@pcraft.com>
Message-ID: <42422B12.5010600@pcraft.com>

Ashley M. Kirchner wrote:

>
>    So right now I'm faced with the following error:
>
> ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> /usr/bin/python: can't open file '/home/mailman/lists/scripts/post'
> 554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 2
>
>    However, here's my problem: that file does exist, in that path, so 
> why would python complain that it can't open it?
>
    I forgot to add: the permissions are correct, but for the mail-gid 
as well as cgi-gid.  That I checked over and over, and they're correct.  
So what else could be causing the problem?

-- 
H | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere.
  +--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  IT Director / SysAdmin / WebSmith             .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Imaging                       .     3550 Arapahoe Ave. #6
  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A. 





From kingspread2005 at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 24 04:00:21 2005
From: kingspread2005 at hotmail.com (=?gb2312?B?zfUgsqk=?=)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:00:21 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Could not get immediately message
Message-ID: <BAY23-F28C741CAC0F66ABD5DF7D8D2400@phx.gbl>


   Hello:

     i am using Mailman-2.16beta on my RedHat linux box,it works.But here 
is the problem i got now: the Digest works fine,the members can get daily 
digest without any problem,while if member sent a individual message to the 
list,after it was approved,members who register as "non-digest" should get 
it,right? but actually not.... Please tell me where the problem is or how 
can i solve it,is there anything should be set in configuration field ? 
(non-digestable function already ON,i am 100% sure).
     BTW,before i used version 2.15,the digest and non-digest both work,but 
the problem is the delievery of all messages randomly delayed 
sometimes,then i upgraded to 2.16beta,the delay problem seems solved,but 
this new one came....  
     This is urgent for me to solve it,appreciate if anyone can help,Thanks 
a lot

_________________________________________________________________
???????????????????????????? MSN Messenger:  http://messenger.msn.com/cn  



From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Thu Mar 24 04:47:25 2005
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:47:25 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.6 beta 5 released
Message-ID: <4242384D.8040609@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi,

Sorry for the delay of 2.1.6 but a serious bug was found in the previous
beta releases. I put a final beta release before jumping up to the
release candidate. The bug is related to 'Privacy -> SPAM filter ->
header_filter_rules'. So, I want all of you, who have had brave souls to
upgrade 2.1.6 beta and who use this feature, to upgrade again to 2.1.6
beta 5.

The tarball is placed at

    http://mm.tkikuchi.net/mailman-2.1.6b5.tgz

# Sorry but it looks like I have not access to the file releases on SF.

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/




From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar 24 05:54:30 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 20:54:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unknown mailer problems
In-Reply-To: <42422B12.5010600@pcraft.com>
Message-ID: <PC1744200503232054300687752bcd0d@msapiro>

Ashley M. Kirchner wrote:

>Ashley M. Kirchner wrote:
>
>>
>>    So right now I'm faced with the following error:
>>
>> ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>> /usr/bin/python: can't open file '/home/mailman/lists/scripts/post'
>> 554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 2
>>
>>    However, here's my problem: that file does exist, in that path, so 
>> why would python complain that it can't open it?
>>
>    I forgot to add: the permissions are correct, but for the mail-gid 
>as well as cgi-gid.  That I checked over and over, and they're correct.  
>So what else could be causing the problem?


It's hard to know what the problem might be because you seem to be
presenting a moving target and not telling us much about what you're
doing. Your initial post was about suEXEC and removing the setgid bit
from the various wrappers in the cgi-bin/ directory.

Now this, which has to do with posting and is strange in a couple of
respects. First of all, the scripts/post script is not normally found
in the lists/ directory. Assuming that the installation directory
(sometimes called $prefix) is /home/mailman/, the path to the post
script would normally be /home/mailman/scripts/post. If this file is
really /home/mailman/lists/scripts/post, it would indicate that
configure was run with an unusual --prefix= option.

Also, the python command to run the post script was invoked by the
(maybe?) /home/mailman/mail/mailman wrapper which was in turn invoked
by the incoming MTA. The wrapper should be setgid so it can set the
executing group to 'mailman' (or whatever your mailman group is). This
should not be affected by suEXEC one way or the other because the web
server isn't involved.

So, are you trying to remove setgid from everything and somehow give
permissions to the mail-gid and the cgi-gid? I don't really know about
running Mailman under suEXEC, but I would suggest that the only thing
that would change from a standard install would be something like the
following (assuming your mailman group is 'mailman'):

-Files should be group writable and group 'mailman'
-Only the wrappers in cgi-bin/ should be not setgid and this only
because suEXEC requires it.
-Web server executes cgi-bin/ wrappers as user/group 'mailman' via
suEXEC (which I think would require configure be run
--with-cgi-gid='mailman')

Note that the above contradicts the following from the INSTALL document:

    - You want to be very sure that the user id under which your CGI
      scripts run is *not* in the `mailman' group you created above,
      otherwise private archives will be accessible to anyone.

I think what this really means is it isn't possible to set Mailman up
properly to run with suEXEC.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ashley at pcraft.com  Thu Mar 24 06:12:16 2005
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:12:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unknown mailer problems
In-Reply-To: <PC1744200503232054300687752bcd0d@msapiro>
References: <PC1744200503232054300687752bcd0d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <42424C30.30102@pcraft.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>It's hard to know what the problem might be because you seem to be
>presenting a moving target and not telling us much about what you're
>doing. Your initial post was about suEXEC and removing the setgid bit
>from the various wrappers in the cgi-bin/ directory.
>
    Yes it was, and after removing the set-gid bits from everything 
within the /cgi-bin/, I kept on trucking because it seemed to run just 
fine.  I say "seemed" because I haven't done a whole lot of testing just 
yet.  When I was ready to do that, I ran into the unknown mailer 
problem...  Which by the way has now been solved as well.  Keep reading 
please...

>First of all, the scripts/post script is not normally found
>in the lists/ directory.
>
    This is correct, however I run mailman across several domains, on 
the same server, and its built-in virtual domain capabilities simply 
don't allow me to do what I want to do (or what my clients want.)  So, I 
install mailman under one user, but in separate folders (for separate 
domains) /lists/ being one of them (this by the way was brought up 
several times in the past.)  So yes, your assumption is correct, I do 
configure mailman with --prefix=/home/mailman/<domain>/

>So, are you trying to remove setgid from everything and somehow give
>permissions to the mail-gid and the cgi-gid? I don't really know about
>running Mailman under suEXEC.....
>
    Neither do I, however with our recent web server upgrades and 
batting down the hatches, I'm forces to find a way to install Mailman 
under suexec.  So this was my project of the day.

>I think what this really means is it isn't possible to set Mailman up
>properly to run with suEXEC.
>
    Maybe so, however I'm still testing it out.  Yes, I have removed the 
set-gid bit from anything within the /cgi-bin/ folder since that's what 
suexec requires.  As for the other error (unknown mailer error), python 
won't read/execute programs in a folder that's g-x which /home/mailman/ 
was.  Once that restriction was removed, it happily worked.

    Now I need to continue testing, sending myself mail, subscribing, 
etc., etc.  So far, it's working.

-- 
H | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere.
  +--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  IT Director / SysAdmin / WebSmith             .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Imaging                       .     3550 Arapahoe Ave. #6
  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A. 





From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar 24 06:35:46 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:35:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unknown mailer problems
In-Reply-To: <42424C30.30102@pcraft.com>
Message-ID: <PC174420050323213546082819c1b20a@msapiro>

Ashley M. Kirchner wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>>I think what this really means is it isn't possible to set Mailman up
>>properly to run with suEXEC.
>>
>    Maybe so, however I'm still testing it out.  Yes, I have removed the 
>set-gid bit from anything within the /cgi-bin/ folder since that's what 
>suexec requires.  As for the other error (unknown mailer error), python 
>won't read/execute programs in a folder that's g-x which /home/mailman/ 
>was.  Once that restriction was removed, it happily worked.
>
>    Now I need to continue testing, sending myself mail, subscribing, 
>etc., etc.  So far, it's working.

I'm not saying it won't work. I think it probably will. The one issue I
think you may have is if you have private archives, they may turn out
to be accessible to anyone because your web server now runs as group
mailman which is documented as wrong for this reason.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ashley at pcraft.com  Thu Mar 24 07:24:36 2005
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 23:24:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unknown mailer problems
In-Reply-To: <PC174420050323213546082819c1b20a@msapiro>
References: <PC174420050323213546082819c1b20a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <42425D24.5080007@pcraft.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>I'm not saying it won't work. I think it probably will. The one issue I
>think you may have is if you have private archives, they may turn out
>to be accessible to anyone because your web server now runs as group
>mailman which is documented as wrong for this reason.
>  
>
    Hrm, yes, that would be a problem (I just tested it and it's indeed 
visible to everyone, despite the URL difference.)  I'd hate to have to 
come up with a login procedure outside of mailman simply because it 
won't play well with suexec.  Yes I realize it's mentioned very 
specifically that mailman needs for the exec not to be run as the 
mailman user, however that will go against suexec's security feature.  
So I guess my question now is, what can be done to make this work?  Or 
maybe a better question would be, when will mailman reach a point where 
it will and can run within a suexec environment?  I like my security and 
I like using mailman.

-- 
H | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere.
  +--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  IT Director / SysAdmin / WebSmith             .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Imaging                       .     3550 Arapahoe Ave. #6
  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A. 





From rabsmobile at commoncents.net.au  Thu Mar 24 09:21:30 2005
From: rabsmobile at commoncents.net.au (Rabbie Zalaf)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 19:21:30 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nothing gets posted to mailman
In-Reply-To: <42425D24.5080007@pcraft.com>
Message-ID: <422DEADE004DBD75@smtp02.syd.iprimus.net.au> (added by
	postmaster@iprimus.com.au)

Hi All,

I send an email to mailman but nothing comes back out...

All I see is this:

Mar 24 19:09:28 mail sm-mta[29701]: j2O89MY5029700:
to="|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post jokes",
ctladdr=<jokes at commoncents.net.au> (8/0), delay=00:00:03, xdelay=00:00:02,
mailer=prog, pri=43924, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent

And that's it.. I have put mailman in /etc/mail/smrsh and I have the jokes
aliases in my aliases file...

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Rabbie.





From ksunshine at gnl.com  Wed Mar 23 22:41:45 2005
From: ksunshine at gnl.com (Kenneth Sunshine)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:41:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems getting installing
Message-ID: <CBEC28EDA404D3118319009027401AE503EB5D7D@gsosrv05.gnl.com>

I ham having problems getting mailman too work with sendmail.  When I go to
my web server and try to create a list I get an error. Am not sure what this
means.  I am not  sure what this means. Have been trying to get postfix
running but can't get it to send or receive mail. Any help would be much
appreciated.
 
Ken Sunshine
Galey & Lord
Phone: 336.665.3063
 


From jwt at onjapan.net  Thu Mar 24 10:31:39 2005
From: jwt at onjapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 18:31:39 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nothing gets posted to mailman
In-Reply-To: <422DEADE004DBD75@smtp02.syd.iprimus.net.au> (added by
	postmaster@iprimus.com.au)
References: <422DEADE004DBD75@smtp02.syd.iprimus.net.au> (added by
	postmaster@iprimus.com.au)
Message-ID: <3213dc9ae01bcae3399c6e015744e716@onjapan.net>

On Mar 24, 2005, at 17:21, Rabbie Zalaf wrote:

> And that's it.. I have put mailman in /etc/mail/smrsh and I have the 
> jokes
> aliases in my aliases file...
>
> Any help would be appreciated.

Did you remember to start Mailman?  (mailmanctl start)
Are the messages collecting in qfiles/** ?
What is in the Mailman logs?

<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>


-- 
Jim Tittsler             http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship          http://Starship.Python.net/
Ringo MUG Tokyo          http://www.ringo.net/rss.html



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Mar 24 10:24:17 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:24:17 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting Header For Postings
In-Reply-To: <0DFFBE2E899E804E9A5710F7071224381E850D@sjvapcd-mail>
References: <0DFFBE2E899E804E9A5710F7071224381E850D@sjvapcd-mail>
Message-ID: <p0620074cbe68370a793b@[10.0.1.3]>

At 5:22 PM -0800 2005-03-23, Staven Bruce wrote:

>  We are using Mailman 2.1.5 and I was going through the FAQ's trying to
>  figure our the most secure way to set up an announce only list. I saw under
>  FAQ 3.11, the suggestion to moderate all users, and for the approved posters
>  to do the following:
>
>  	 "...A more secure alternative is for your approved posters to add
>  an Approved header to their postings as a  header, or as the first line of
>  the post)."
>
>  My question is where and how do I "add an Approved header" ?

	If you have a copy of the message sent to you as moderator, and 
your MUA allows it, in the group of headers at the top of the 
message, you add something like the following:

		Approved: list-moderator-password-here

	Alternatively, you can add that as the first line of the content 
of the post, either from your MUA or from the copy of the message you 
see within web interface.

>                                                               I've been
>  through the Mailman interface, but I am a little confused on how to do this.

	There's not a separate part of the admin interface for this.  You 
add it directly to the copy of the message you have available to you 
via your MUA or the web interface.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From rabsmobile at commoncents.net.au  Thu Mar 24 10:59:26 2005
From: rabsmobile at commoncents.net.au (Rabbie Zalaf)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:59:26 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Nothing gets posted to mailman
In-Reply-To: <3213dc9ae01bcae3399c6e015744e716@onjapan.net>
Message-ID: <422C99260052B618@smtp01.syd.iprimus.net.au> (added by
	postmaster@iprimus.com.au)

Nope, 

Thanks it worked :)



-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Tittsler [mailto:jwt at onjapan.net] 
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 8:32 PM
To: Rabbie Zalaf
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Nothing gets posted to mailman

On Mar 24, 2005, at 17:21, Rabbie Zalaf wrote:

> And that's it.. I have put mailman in /etc/mail/smrsh and I have the 
> jokes
> aliases in my aliases file...
>
> Any help would be appreciated.

Did you remember to start Mailman?  (mailmanctl start)
Are the messages collecting in qfiles/** ?
What is in the Mailman logs?

<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>


-- 
Jim Tittsler             http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship          http://Starship.Python.net/
Ringo MUG Tokyo          http://www.ringo.net/rss.html





From kev at bolton-sfc.ac.uk  Thu Mar 24 14:12:35 2005
From: kev at bolton-sfc.ac.uk (Kevin Ratcliffe)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:12:35 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 'Group mismatch error' problem
In-Reply-To: <PC1744200503231017280703849a49db@msapiro>
References: <PC1744200503231017280703849a49db@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4242BCC3.4000205@bolton-sfc.ac.uk>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Kevin Ratcliffe wrote:
>  
>
>>Can anybody help me please.  I've installed Mailman as per the install 
>>instructions.  I am using exim as my MTA.
>>I configured mailman with './configure --with-mail-gid=mail 
>>--with-cgi-gid=apache'
>>I installed exim with the user and group 'mail'.
>>I followed the instructions to configure exim for mailman.
>>My MTA seems to be working fine.
>>But I cant seem to get any mailing lists to work.
>>I can sbuscribe to groups but never get an email reply.
>>
>>when I do a '$MM_PREFIX/mail/mailman post', I get:
>>
>>Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail
>>wrapper script to be executed as group "mail", but
>>the system's mail server executed the mail script as
>>group "root".  Try tweaking the mail server to run the
>>script as group "mail", or re-run configure,
>>providing the command line option `--with-mail-gid=root'.
>>    
>>
>
>
>This happens when you run the command as user/group root. What happens
>when Exim runs it? If exim (or you) runs it as group 'mail', it should
>be fine.
>
>  
>
>>when I check Mailmans smtp-failure log, I get:
>>
>>Mar 23 14:27:36 2005 (1390) Low level smtp error: (111, 'Connection 
>>refused'), msgid: <mailman.0.1111586446.1267.mailman at magic.bolton-sfc.ac.uk>
>>Mar 23 14:27:36 2005 (1390) delivery to kev at bolton-sfc.ac.uk failed with 
>>code -1: (111, 'Connection refused')
>>
>>I am assuming that exim cannot do the delivery because it cannot run the 
>>'$MM_PREFIX/mail/mailman post' script.
>>    
>>
>
>No, that is probably not the reason since the '$MM_PREFIX/mail/mailman
>post' script is run for an incoming post and the smtp-failure message
>above is related to an attempt by Mailman to send some message
>(generated by mailman judging from the msgid) to you. Mailman is
>unable to connect to the outgoing MTA via SMTP. If you haven't changed
>SMTPHOST and SMTPPORT from their defaults in Defaults.py, this means
>Mailman can't connect to 'localhost' port 25. This is probably an Exim
>or system configuration issue, not a Mailman problem per se.
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
Thanks for your help Mark.

You were right about the 'connection refused' error.  I couldn't telnet 
to my localhost on port 25 as we have a mail virus scanner on that port, 
which I'd forgotten about, which needed a bit of messing around with.   
Now I get replies from mailman.

Alas, I still cannot post to the list I'd created.  I think I' getting 
there though.  I try to use mailing lists and usenet as a last resort 
and try to figure these things out for myself.  I prefer being pointed 
in the right direction.

Thanks again

Kev



From trichard at techovations.com  Thu Mar 24 15:45:44 2005
From: trichard at techovations.com (Troy Richard)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 08:45:44 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] old domain showing up
Message-ID: <59024.199.38.51.133.1111675544.squirrel@mail.atomicxterra.com>

I changed the domain on my mail list.  When I log into the admin site all
the links still show the old domain.  Anybody know what i need to do to
change this.

Thanks
Troy





From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar 24 17:17:48 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 08:17:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] old domain showing up
In-Reply-To: <59024.199.38.51.133.1111675544.squirrel@mail.atomicxterra.com>
Message-ID: <PC17442005032408174800781d6137be@msapiro>

Troy Richard wrote:

>I changed the domain on my mail list.  When I log into the admin site all
>the links still show the old domain.  Anybody know what i need to do to
>change this.

fix_url.py

See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar 24 17:23:31 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 08:23:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems getting installing
In-Reply-To: <CBEC28EDA404D3118319009027401AE503EB5D7D@gsosrv05.gnl.com>
Message-ID: <PC17442005032408233106255764f730@msapiro>

Kenneth Sunshine wrote:

>I ham having problems getting mailman too work with sendmail.  When I go to
>my web server and try to create a list I get an error. Am not sure what this
>means.  I am not  sure what this means. Have been trying to get postfix
>running but can't get it to send or receive mail. Any help would be much
>appreciated.

You're not giving us any information here. If you "attached" an error
report, it got stripped - repost with it pasted as text in the body of
your message.  Also see
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.022.htp
and
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.023.htp

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ifetch at du.edu  Thu Mar 24 19:43:33 2005
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:43:33 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What am I missing: HTML messages are being stripped?
Message-ID: <20050324113943.U52006@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>

Hello,

    Probably a temporary brain moment here, but our lists are stripping 
HTML messages, although the settings are as follows for content filtering:

filter_content is yes, filter_mime_types and pass_mime_types are both 
empty, and convert_html_to_plaintext is set to no.

    If I turn off content filtering for the list, HTML messages arrive ok, 
however it seems as though we should be able to have content filtering 
turned on yet HTML messages passing through unharmed with the settings 
indicated above - what am I missing?

Thanks,
Ivan Fetch.



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Mar 24 19:56:39 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 19:56:39 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What am I missing: HTML messages are
	being stripped?
In-Reply-To: <20050324113943.U52006@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
References: <20050324113943.U52006@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
Message-ID: <p06200705be68bc939c7b@[10.0.1.3]>

At 11:43 AM -0700 2005-03-24, Ivan Fetch wrote:

>     If I turn off content filtering for the list, HTML messages arrive ok,
>  however it seems as though we should be able to have content filtering
>  turned on yet HTML messages passing through unharmed with the settings
>  indicated above - what am I missing?

	With content filtering turned on but nothing defined, Mailman 
will strip everything but the first MIME bodypart type, which may or 
may not be HTML.  If you want to pass HTML messages, you will need to 
define to define some MIME bodypart types that you want to pass -- 
such as "text/html".

	Note that this is in *addition* to un-checking the box that says 
"strip HTML".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar 24 20:04:05 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:04:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What am I missing: HTML messages are being
	stripped?
In-Reply-To: <20050324113943.U52006@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>
Message-ID: <PC1744200503241104050046dba056f3@msapiro>

Ivan Fetch wrote:
>
>    If I turn off content filtering for the list, HTML messages arrive ok, 
>however it seems as though we should be able to have content filtering 
>turned on yet HTML messages passing through unharmed with the settings 
>indicated above - what am I missing?

The HTML parts that are being removed are one subpart of a
multipart/alternative part. When content filtering is enabled, it
always selects only the first remaining part (after any filtering)
from a multipart/alternative group for delivery to the list.

The fourth paragraph of the description on the Content Filtering page
says:

 After this initial filtering, any multipart  attachments that are empty
 are removed. If the outer message is left empty after this filtering,
 then the whole message is discarded. Then, each multipart/alternative
 section will be replaced by just the first alternative that is non-
 empty after filtering.

The last sentence describes this behavior.

This has been discussed many times on this list. See
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-March/043172.html
for a recent thread or go to
http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amail.python.org+inurl%3Amailman-users+multipart%2Falternative

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ifetch at du.edu  Thu Mar 24 20:38:04 2005
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 12:38:04 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What am I missing: HTML messages are being
	stripped?
In-Reply-To: <PC1744200503241104050046dba056f3@msapiro>
References: <PC1744200503241104050046dba056f3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20050324123408.Q52006@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>

Hello,

    Thank you Brad and Mark for your replies.

    The multipart/alternative and Mailman picking the "first alternative" 
was what I was overlooking.

    Apologies for not doing more searching before posting - trying to do 
too many things at once. :)


- Ivan.



On Thu, 24 Mar 2005, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Ivan Fetch wrote:
>>
>>    If I turn off content filtering for the list, HTML messages arrive ok,
>> however it seems as though we should be able to have content filtering
>> turned on yet HTML messages passing through unharmed with the settings
>> indicated above - what am I missing?
>
> The HTML parts that are being removed are one subpart of a
> multipart/alternative part. When content filtering is enabled, it
> always selects only the first remaining part (after any filtering)
> from a multipart/alternative group for delivery to the list.
>
> The fourth paragraph of the description on the Content Filtering page
> says:
>
> After this initial filtering, any multipart  attachments that are empty
> are removed. If the outer message is left empty after this filtering,
> then the whole message is discarded. Then, each multipart/alternative
> section will be replaced by just the first alternative that is non-
> empty after filtering.
>
> The last sentence describes this behavior.
>
> This has been discussed many times on this list. See
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-March/043172.html
> for a recent thread or go to
> http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amail.python.org+inurl%3Amailman-users+multipart%2Falternative
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From ashley at pcraft.com  Thu Mar 24 21:20:21 2005
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:20:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unknown mailer problems
In-Reply-To: <42425D24.5080007@pcraft.com>
References: <PC174420050323213546082819c1b20a@msapiro>
	<42425D24.5080007@pcraft.com>
Message-ID: <42432105.1070801@pcraft.com>

Ashley M. Kirchner wrote:

>    Hrm, yes, that would be a problem (I just tested it and it's indeed 
> visible to everyone, despite the URL difference.)

    Errr, I was wrong.  It helps if I wasn't the one logged in, making 
administrative changes, and also checking on the archives at the same 
time.  Once I used a different browser, it worked just fine (non-members 
and not-logged-in members can't get to the private archives.)  So, that 
means that so far, mailman is working quite nicely within a suexec 
environment, with the set-gid bit removed from all the scripts that 
reside in /cgi-bin/.  Disclaimer: I'm still not 100% sure whether 
removing the set-gid bits will have any adverse complications later.  
I'm still in the early stages of testing.  So please don't quote me on 
it working fine under this environment.

-- 
W | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere.
  +--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  IT Director / SysAdmin / Websmith             .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.            .     3550 Arapahoe Ave. #6
  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A.





From drjones at xmission.com  Thu Mar 24 21:45:39 2005
From: drjones at xmission.com (Dr. Scott S. Jones)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:45:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rules du jour
In-Reply-To: <20050323195900.GA8343@meatwad.cyberthugs.com>
References: <001e01c52f18$924a7180$6500a8c0@home1>	<p0621020dbe6736f1469a@[192.168.123.100]>
	<20050323195900.GA8343@meatwad.cyberthugs.com>
Message-ID: <424326F3.9060600@xmission.com>

Dear list:

When I set up Mailman 2.1.5 on my Debian 3.0 system, I also set up 
spamassassin, which included setting up RulesDuJour to be used to update 
Spamassassin, if I understand it correctly.

I frequently get the following error messages, and am not sure how to 
resolve them:


/etc/spamassassin/rules_du_jour: line 126: [: perl: integer expression 
expected
cp: cannot create regular file 
`/etc/spamassassin/RulesDuJour/99_FVGT_Tripwire.cf.2': Permission
+denied
touch: cannot touch 
`/etc/spamassassin/RulesDuJour/99_FVGT_Tripwire.cf.2': Permission denied
mv: cannot move `/etc/spamassassin/RulesDuJour/99_FVGT_Tripwire.cf.2' to
+`/etc/spamassassin/tripwire.cf': Permission denied
cat: /etc/spamassassin/tripwire.cf: No such file or directory
cp: cannot create regular file 
`/etc/spamassassin/RulesDuJour/evilnumbers.cf.2': Permission
+denied


Thanks for any help,

Scott


From john at wa9als.com  Thu Mar 24 22:04:49 2005
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:04:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rules du jour
References: <001e01c52f18$924a7180$6500a8c0@home1>	<p0621020dbe6736f1469a@[192.168.123.100]><20050323195900.GA8343@meatwad.cyberthugs.com>
	<424326F3.9060600@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <003801c530b5$1da62a10$e15a0180@majorhospital.org>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dr. Scott S. Jones" <drjones at xmission.com>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 3:45 PM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rules du jour


> Dear list:
>
> When I set up Mailman 2.1.5 on my Debian 3.0 system, I also set up 
> spamassassin, which included setting up RulesDuJour to be used to update 
> Spamassassin, if I understand it correctly.
>
> I frequently get the following error messages, and am not sure how to 
> resolve them:
>
>
> /etc/spamassassin/rules_du_jour: line 126: [: perl: integer expression 
> expected
> cp: cannot create regular file 
> `/etc/spamassassin/RulesDuJour/99_FVGT_Tripwire.cf.2': Permission
> +denied
> touch: cannot touch `/etc/spamassassin/RulesDuJour/99_FVGT_Tripwire.cf.2': 
> Permission denied
> mv: cannot move `/etc/spamassassin/RulesDuJour/99_FVGT_Tripwire.cf.2' to
> +`/etc/spamassassin/tripwire.cf': Permission denied
> cat: /etc/spamassassin/tripwire.cf: No such file or directory
> cp: cannot create regular file 
> `/etc/spamassassin/RulesDuJour/evilnumbers.cf.2': Permission
> +denied

Scott, this is ALL about SpamAssassin and NOTHING about Mailman.  You will 
get much help from the SA list.  It looks like you've got some file 
permission and/or pathway problems, but there's nothing to indicate a 
Mailman problem.  (Maybe you accidentally posted to the wrong list?)  - John




From trichard at atomicxterra.com  Thu Mar 24 15:41:45 2005
From: trichard at atomicxterra.com (Troy Richard)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 08:41:45 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] old domain showing up
Message-ID: <52288.199.38.51.133.1111675305.squirrel@mail.atomicxterra.com>

I changed the domain on my mail list.  When I log into the admin site all
the links still show the old domain.  Anybody know what i need to do to
change this.

Thanks
Troy



From peter at mccarroll.org  Thu Mar 24 18:25:53 2005
From: peter at mccarroll.org (Peter McCarroll)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:25:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator ability to manager users
Message-ID: <1555.207.23.252.92.1111685153.squirrel@www.canzusenterprises.com>

I have a number of Mailman lists on my server.  I want to retain control
of the list configuration settings centrally (and not give out the
administrator password to others), but allow each list "owner" to moderate
and manage the subscriptions.  Mailman does not seem to allow for the
moderator to manage subscriptions, or for the subscription manager to not
be allowed to change the list configuration.  Any suggestions on how this
can be achieved?



From millerj at truman.edu  Fri Mar 25 16:16:09 2005
From: millerj at truman.edu (Jason Miller)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:16:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman difficulties: OS X, create list bug
Message-ID: <d02ea081e3e07e683c977b829a789ff8@truman.edu>

Dear Mailman users,

I've been trying to get mailman 2.1.5 to work on my OS X (10.3.8, not 
server) machine for some time.  I have root access.  My postfix mail 
agent is working correctly (I can send email from my box and receive 
mail).  I've used Larry Stone's archive posting to guide my 
installation of mailman.   If anyone can tell me what I can do to get 
mailman up and running on my machine, I'd be most grateful.

I seem to be able to create new lists, but whenever I do, I get an 
error that looks like this:

> We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
> If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy 
> of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what 
> happened. Thanks!
> Traceback:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/Applications/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
>     main()
>   File "/Applications/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 55, in main
>     process_request(doc, cgidata)
>   File "/Applications/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 226, in 
> process_request
>     sys.modules[modname].create(mlist, cgi=1)
>   File "/Applications/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 232, in 
> create
>     _update_maps()
>   File "/Applications/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 53, in 
> _update_maps
>     raise RuntimeError, msg % (acmd, status, errstr)
> RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias 
> /Applications/mailman/data/aliases (status: 1, Operation not 
> permitted)

I've checked the permissions on /Applications/mailman/data/aliases, and 
look for yourself (though I've deleted many bounce events that are in 
this directory):

> drwxrwsr-x  18 root     mailman    612 25 Mar 08:42 .
> drwxrwsrwx  23 mailman  mailman    782 25 Mar 08:38 ..
> -rw-r-----   1 mailman  mailman     41 21 Mar 11:15 adm.pw
> -rw-rw----   1 mailman  mailman   6668 25 Mar 09:03 aliases
> -rw-r-----   1 mailman  mailman  16384 25 Mar 08:47 aliases.db
> -rw-r--r--   1 mailman  mailman     10 14 Nov 15:42 
> last_mailman_version
> -rw-rw----   1 mailman  mailman      4 24 Mar 14:50 master-qrunner.pid
> -rw-r--r--   1 mailman  mailman  14110 25 Mar 08:42 sitelist.cfg

I've run the check_perms -f command several times.  I've run Disk 
Utility and repaired permissions once.  I've rerun check_perms -f a few 
more times.

Here's an excerpt from my system log.  The last two entries correspond 
to my  trying to send email to a list on my machine from my machine.

> Mar 25 09:06:52 pyrite postfix/smtpd[8549]: fatal: accept connection: 
> Socket operation on non-socket
> Mar 25 09:07:36 pyrite sudo:  millerj : TTY=ttyp1 ; 
> PWD=/Applications/mailman ; USER=root ; COMMAND=bin/check_perms -f
> Mar 25 09:07:40 pyrite sudo:  millerj : TTY=ttyp1 ; 
> PWD=/Applications/mailman ; USER=root ; COMMAND=bin/check_perms -f
> Mar 25 09:09:41 pyrite postfix/smtpd[8557]: fatal: accept connection: 
> Socket operation on non-socket
> Mar 25 09:09:52 pyrite postfix/smtpd[8561]: fatal: accept connection: 
> Socket operation on non-socket
> Mar 25 09:10:00 pyrite CRON[8567]: (root) CMD (/usr/libexec/atrun)
> Mar 25 09:10:00 pyrite CRON[8566]: (mailman) CMD (/usr/bin/python -S 
> /Applications/mailman/cron/gate_news)
> Mar 25 09:10:00 pyrite CRON[8565]: (root) CMD (/usr/bin/python -S 
> /Applications/mailman/cron/gate_news)
> Mar 25 09:10:03 pyrite postfix/smtpd[8568]: fatal: accept connection: 
> Socket operation on non-socket
> Mar 25 09:10:26 pyrite postfix/smtpd[8569]: fatal: accept connection: 
> Socket operation on non-socket

Thanks in advance for any thoughts you can share or any pointers to 
good references on this problem.

================================================================
Jason E. Miller, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Mathematics
Truman State University
Kirksville, MO
http://pyrite.truman.edu/~millerj/
660.785.7430



From millerj at truman.edu  Fri Mar 25 16:33:07 2005
From: millerj at truman.edu (Jason Miller)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:33:07 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman difficulties: OS X, create list bug
In-Reply-To: <6e7550f3360579f16cb3602ceae8de59@memphis.edu>
References: <d02ea081e3e07e683c977b829a789ff8@truman.edu>
	<6e7550f3360579f16cb3602ceae8de59@memphis.edu>
Message-ID: <88de426b018408e619aea45b42700c0b@truman.edu>

Dan,
Thanks!  That seems to have taken care of the "bug" problem.

Jason

On Mar 25, 2005, at 9:25 AM, Dan Phillips wrote:

>
> On Mar 25, 2005, at 9:16 AM, Jason Miller wrote:
>
>>> -rw-r-----   1 mailman  mailman  16384 25 Mar 08:47 aliases.db
>
> alaises.db must be group writable. See 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.009.htp 
> and chmod it to 660.
>
> Dan
>
>
>

================================================================
Jason E. Miller, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Mathematics
Truman State University
Kirksville, MO
http://pyrite.truman.edu/~millerj/
660.785.7430



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Mar 25 19:19:16 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 19:19:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator ability to manager users
In-Reply-To: <1555.207.23.252.92.1111685153.squirrel@www.canzusenterprises.com>
References: <1555.207.23.252.92.1111685153.squirrel@www.canzusenterprises.com>
Message-ID: <p0620070fbe6a0654e640@[10.0.1.3]>

At 9:25 AM -0800 2005-03-24, Peter McCarroll wrote:

>  I have a number of Mailman lists on my server.  I want to retain control
>  of the list configuration settings centrally (and not give out the
>  administrator password to others), but allow each list "owner" to moderate
>  and manage the subscriptions.

	Mailman doesn't work that way.  Moderators can approve, reject, 
or discard postings that have been held for them to look at, but 
that's about it.  If you want to do anything more, you need to be an 
Administrator.

	Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any alternatives to give you more 
fine-grained control over who can do what.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From rosander at owbn.org  Fri Mar 25 19:35:29 2005
From: rosander at owbn.org (Ross Anderson)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 12:35:29 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] temporary delivery error
In-Reply-To: <52288.199.38.51.133.1111675305.squirrel@mail.atomicxterra.com>
References: <52288.199.38.51.133.1111675305.squirrel@mail.atomicxterra.com>
Message-ID: <424459F1.1080605@owbn.org>

    I've been struggling with a delivery error on mailman that I could 
use some help with. I'm using postfix w/ amavis-new and cyrus for local 
users. The trouble I'm having is when a local users have exceeded thier 
quota, the messages sent by mailman gets stuck in a  temporary delivery 
error. Does anyone have suggestions as to what I need to focus on? I've 
read cyrus, postfix, and mailman lists and haven't had much luck 
locating this error. Any suggestions appreciated. Conf files avail on 
request.


Ross



From jwblist at olympus.net  Fri Mar 25 20:00:12 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 11:00:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] temporary delivery error
In-Reply-To: <424459F1.1080605@owbn.org>
Message-ID: <BE699FBC.39CA%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 3/25/2005 10:35, "Ross Anderson" <rosander at owbn.org> wrote:

>     I've been struggling with a delivery error on mailman that I could
> use some help with. I'm using postfix w/ amavis-new and cyrus for local
> users. The trouble I'm having is when a local users have exceeded thier
> quota, the messages sent by mailman gets stuck in a  temporary delivery
> error. Does anyone have suggestions as to what I need to focus on? I've
> read cyrus, postfix, and mailman lists and haven't had much luck
> locating this error. Any suggestions appreciated. Conf files avail on
> request.
>
Well, you're seeing basically reasonable behavior.  A site which imposes
quotas can either reject temporarily when a user is over quote, or reject
permanently the first time the message is offered.

The former assumes that users are reasonable, and will clear out their quota
problem fairly soon.  The latter assumes that users are ignoring their mail.

If you want to change the behavior, the Postfix configuration (about which I
know nothing) would be the place to look.  Interestingly, the O'Reilly book
"Postfix, The Definitive Guide" (my copy was printed in Dec 2003...first
edition) does not mention "quota" in its index.

  --John



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Mar 25 20:42:55 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 20:42:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] temporary delivery error
In-Reply-To: <BE699FBC.39CA%jwblist@olympus.net>
References: <BE699FBC.39CA%jwblist@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <p06200713be6a197f6465@[10.0.1.3]>

At 11:00 AM -0800 2005-03-25, John W. Baxter wrote:

>                                             Interestingly, the O'Reilly book
>  "Postfix, The Definitive Guide" (my copy was printed in Dec 2003...first
>  edition) does not mention "quota" in its index.

	That's because quotas like this don't actually have anything to 
do with postfix.  Any mailbox quotas that are applied come from the 
Local Delivery Agent, or the operating system and filtered up through 
through the LDA.

	From the LDA, these errors are filtered up through to postfix, 
which then issues either a permanent or a temporary error code to the 
sending machine, depending on how you have configured it to react to 
that kind of error from the LDA.


	So, when trying to debug problems like this, start with postfix, 
and follow through from there to the LDA.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From rosander at owbn.org  Fri Mar 25 20:46:32 2005
From: rosander at owbn.org (Ross Anderson)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:46:32 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] temporary delivery error
In-Reply-To: <BE699FBC.39CA%jwblist@olympus.net>
References: <BE699FBC.39CA%jwblist@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <42446A98.80608@owbn.org>

John W. Baxter wrote:

>On 3/25/2005 10:35, "Ross Anderson" <rosander at owbn.org> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>    I've been struggling with a delivery error on mailman that I could
>>use some help with. I'm using postfix w/ amavis-new and cyrus for local
>>users. The trouble I'm having is when a local users have exceeded thier
>>quota, the messages sent by mailman gets stuck in a  temporary delivery
>>error. Does anyone have suggestions as to what I need to focus on? I've
>>read cyrus, postfix, and mailman lists and haven't had much luck
>>locating this error. Any suggestions appreciated. Conf files avail on
>>request.
>>
>>    
>>
>Well, you're seeing basically reasonable behavior.  A site which imposes
>quotas can either reject temporarily when a user is over quote, or reject
>permanently the first time the message is offered.
>
>The former assumes that users are reasonable, and will clear out their quota
>problem fairly soon.  The latter assumes that users are ignoring their mail.
>
>If you want to change the behavior, the Postfix configuration (about which I
>know nothing) would be the place to look.  Interestingly, the O'Reilly book
>"Postfix, The Definitive Guide" (my copy was printed in Dec 2003...first
>edition) does not mention "quota" in its index.
>
>  --John
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/rosander%40owbn.org
>
>Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>
>  
>
Well the confusion I seem to be having here is cyrus-mailman related 
since it is the program handling local quota's. Cyrus bounces mail when 
single mail is recieved from local or outside mail accounts.  This odd 
behaviour only occurs with mailman which is why I'm a bit puzzled. I'd 
like to get the message bouncing back to mailman right away like it does 
with users that are not locally hosted.



From heather at madrone.com  Fri Mar 25 20:55:46 2005
From: heather at madrone.com (Heather Madrone)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 11:55:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTAs
In-Reply-To: <424459F1.1080605@owbn.org>
References: <52288.199.38.51.133.1111675305.squirrel@mail.atomicxterra.com>
	<424459F1.1080605@owbn.org>
Message-ID: <p0621023ebe6a15817020@[192.168.123.100]>

I've been using Mailman with exim on Mac OSX.  I started with
sendmail (because it comes with OSX and I'm somewhat familiar
with it), but soon got tired of having to wrestle it into submission
all the time and switched to exim.  I've been very pleased with exim's
performance and integration with Mailman.

The OSX setup, however, is only a stopgap while I get my permanent
server set up.  I've been looking for an open source operating system
that will run well on our Ultra 5 (sparc).  We were going with Debian,
which then announced that it's dropping sparc support, so we've switched
to OpenBSD.

The time has come to start seriously thinking about the MTA.  OpenBSD
comes with sendmail, but I'm not going down that road again.  I've heard
good things about postfix, but I've never used it.  It seems somewhat more
complex to set up than exim, and its integration with Mailman does not
seem to be as seamless.

My previous service provider used postfix, and we had recurrent problems
with Mailman's queues getting silently hung up.  A friend of mine who
runs a Mailman/postfix site also has the same problem.  I wrote a perl
script to check for this problem and restart Mailman's qrunner if necessary,
and my Mailman/exim installation hasn't had this problem once.  Is this
problem related to postfix or have I just been lucky?

Things I like about exim:

	* Exim's ability to directly poke the Mailman installation and
	determine legitimate delivery addresses.
	* Exim's ability to handle VERP processing through the MTA
	rather than having Mailman have to do it.
	* Exim's fine degree of control of transient and permanent
	delivery errors (by host, by address, by error type).
	* Exim's informative logs.
	* Ease of configuration and administration.
	* Reliability.

I don't have a huge Mailman installation.  There's one main list with 300
subscribers that gets 50-200 messages a day.  There are two digest-only
lists with 100 and 500 subscribers that get 2-10 messages daily.  There
are a handful of other lists that get a few posts a month.  Everything's in
the same domain.

What are some reasons that I would consider postfix instead of exim?

-- 
Heather Madrone  (heather at madrone.com)  http://www.madrone.com

A rolling stone gathers no mass.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Mar 25 21:32:24 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 21:32:24 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] temporary delivery error
In-Reply-To: <42446A98.80608@owbn.org>
References: <BE699FBC.39CA%jwblist@olympus.net>
 <42446A98.80608@owbn.org>
Message-ID: <p06200715be6a25692f30@[10.0.1.3]>

At 1:46 PM -0600 2005-03-25, Ross Anderson wrote:

>  Well the confusion I seem to be having here is cyrus-mailman related
>  since it is the program handling local quota's. Cyrus bounces mail when
>  single mail is recieved from local or outside mail accounts.

	What LDA do you have configured for use with Cyrus?

>                                                                This
>  odd behaviour only occurs with mailman which is why I'm a bit puzzled.
>  I'd like to get the message bouncing back to mailman right away like
>  it does with users that are not locally hosted.

	I think that this is a difference in the way that the LDA is 
called, or perhaps using different Cyrus-compatible LDAs.  At the 
very least, you need a lot more information about how your MTA is 
configured to talk to your LDA, and how your LDA is configured to 
handle certain situations.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Mar 25 22:08:23 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 22:08:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTAs
In-Reply-To: <p0621023ebe6a15817020@[192.168.123.100]>
References: <52288.199.38.51.133.1111675305.squirrel@mail.atomicxterra.com>
	<424459F1.1080605@owbn.org>
	<p0621023ebe6a15817020@[192.168.123.100]>
Message-ID: <p06200716be6a25f24f35@[10.0.1.3]>

At 11:55 AM -0800 2005-03-25, Heather Madrone wrote:

>  The OSX setup, however, is only a stopgap while I get my permanent
>  server set up.  I've been looking for an open source operating system
>  that will run well on our Ultra 5 (sparc).  We were going with Debian,
>  which then announced that it's dropping sparc support, so we've switched
>  to OpenBSD.

	In terms of providing good support for UltraSPARC, Solaris is 
going to be best, and I believe that Solaris 10 is freely available 
from Sun.  But that's not what I would consider an "open source" 
operating system.

	In terms of Open Source operating systems for UltraSPARC, NetBSD 
is probably going to be the best, with OpenBSD close behind (they 
split off from NetBSD not too long ago), and FreeBSD catching up very 
quickly.  There may be some Linux distributions which also support 
UltraSPARC, and they might have been decent in the past, but I think 
they're tending to drop it in the same way that Debian has done.

>  The time has come to start seriously thinking about the MTA.  OpenBSD
>  comes with sendmail, but I'm not going down that road again.  I've heard
>  good things about postfix, but I've never used it.  It seems somewhat more
>  complex to set up than exim, and its integration with Mailman does not
>  seem to be as seamless.

	Postfix is a good MTA for use with mailing lists.  It does a lot 
of things out-of-the-box that you want in this kind of environment, 
and which take more work to do if you want to use sendmail instead. 
I have run large sites with both sendmail and postfix, and depending 
on what you're trying to do and how much care & feeding you're 
willing/able to give it, either sendmail or postfix should be 
perfectly suitable.

	I know a lot less about Exim, but it does seem to be reasonably 
capable, and I have spoken to the author of Exim a fair amount.  Phil 
Hazel is a good guy.  Based more on that than anything else, I 
consider Exim to be the only other MTA that I can recommend that 
people use.


	In terms of integration with Mailman, I think postfix is about as 
good as anything else I've seen, and the hacks to improve the 
integration with sendmail basically amount to lying to Mailman and 
instead telling it that it's using postfix.

>  My previous service provider used postfix, and we had recurrent problems
>  with Mailman's queues getting silently hung up.  A friend of mine who
>  runs a Mailman/postfix site also has the same problem.

	Hung up?  In what way?

>                                                          I wrote a perl
>  script to check for this problem and restart Mailman's qrunner if necessary,
>  and my Mailman/exim installation hasn't had this problem once.  Is this
>  problem related to postfix or have I just been lucky?

	I've never heard of a problem like this being able to be 
attributed to postfix and not be generally applicable to other MTAs 
as well.

>  	* Exim's ability to directly poke the Mailman installation and
>  	determine legitimate delivery addresses.

	If you use the postfix integration scripts, then the aliases are 
automatically generated when you create and delete mailing lists, and 
this shouldn't be a problem.

>  	* Exim's ability to handle VERP processing through the MTA
>  	rather than having Mailman have to do it.

	Postfix has support for XVERP, and there have been patches posted 
which allow Mailman to take advantage of that.  I don't personally 
like that option, as I don't think it really saves you anything, and 
it certainly takes a lot of the control away from Mailman that I 
would normally want to maintain.  But if you want this, you can do it 
with postfix.

>  	* Exim's fine degree of control of transient and permanent
>  	delivery errors (by host, by address, by error type).

	I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about.  Can you be 
more specific?  I know that postfix gives you a lot of control in 
these areas, but without knowing more about how Exim does them, it's 
hard to compare.

>  	* Exim's informative logs.

	I've seen Exim's logs.  I was never able to make much of any 
sense out of them.  I've also seen postfix's logs, and they seem to 
me to be the model of readability and understandability.

	Is there something in specific you don't like?

>  	* Ease of configuration and administration.

	Postfix is the only MTA on the planet that can have a truly 
useful two-line configuration file.  Moreover, it has the most 
intelligible configuration file that I have ever seen.  Better still, 
it comes up "default secure", unlike every other MTA I've ever seen.

	I've seen Exim configuration files, and it's hard to tell what 
goes where, what is a router versus all the other ways that certain 
things could be handled, etc....


	When looking at Exim and Mailman, there is a distinct issue that 
has to be kept in mind.  The instructions for integrating Mailman 
2.0.x are oriented exclusively towards Exim 3.x, and the instructions 
for integrating Mailman 2.1.x are oriented exclusively towards Exim 
4.x.  If you've got Exim 3.x and you want to use Mailman 2.1.x, 
you're screwed.

	Been there, done that.  Not knowing Exim very well, I had to be 
the one to try to patch together something that would 
kinda-semi-sorta work with Mailman 2.1.x and Exim 3.x.  Not fun.  I 
might wish this kind of experience on my worst enemies, but not 
anyone else.


	This is at least one area where postfix does not share the same 
kind of problem -- the instructions and scripts provided with Mailman 
2.0.x and 2.1.x work with pretty much any version of postfix that has 
shipped within the last few years.

>  	* Reliability.

	All I can say is that the largest Mailman installations in the 
world (that I know of) exclusively use postfix.  You'd have to ask 
them why they went this route, but my personal belief is that postfix 
is more powerful, flexible, and scalable than Exim, or most anything 
else available.

>  What are some reasons that I would consider postfix instead of exim?

	Well, for a small site, it mostly comes down to personal 
preference.  Regardless of whether I think that postfix is 
head-and-shoulders above Exim or not, if you're familiar with Exim 
and you feel comfortable administering it, then you should seriously 
consider continuing to go that route.  Of course, your hosting 
provider might also fit into this picture -- if they're not familiar 
with Exim, then if you have any problems you may not be able to rely 
on their help.

	We use postfix on python.org for mailman-users and the other 
mailing lists we host, the freebsd.org folks use it for their mail 
servers, and lists.apple.com use it for theirs.  However, just 
because we use postfix does not necessarily mean that you have to.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From jwblist at olympus.net  Fri Mar 25 22:48:21 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:48:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTAs
In-Reply-To: <p06200716be6a25f24f35@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <BE69C725.39F1%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 3/25/2005 13:08, "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote:

> If you've got Exim 3.x and you want to use Mailman 2.1.x,
> you're screwed.

Debian woody notwithstanding, no one should be installing and running Exim 3
these days.  There is essentially no one readily available (eg, on the
exim-users mailing list) who remembers much about it.

(After 10 years of reading Exim logs, and a few minutes reading Postfix
logs, I would reverse Brad's characterization (I don't know how configurable
Postfix's logging is...Exim can add or drop many aspects of the log
entries).  Actually, the Postfix logs look quite reasonable.)

  --John



From heather at madrone.com  Fri Mar 25 23:25:46 2005
From: heather at madrone.com (Heather Madrone)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:25:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTAs
In-Reply-To: <p06200716be6a25f24f35@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <52288.199.38.51.133.1111675305.squirrel@mail.atomicxterra.com>
	<424459F1.1080605@owbn.org> <p0621023ebe6a15817020@[192.168.123.100]>
	<p06200716be6a25f24f35@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <p06210241be6a31f31ae5@[192.168.123.100]>

Thanks for your detailed answer, Brad.  I appreciate your
opinion on this subject.  If Postfix will do a better job than
exim, I don't mind switching at all.

At 10:08 PM +0100 3/25/05, Brad Knowles wrote:
>	In terms of providing good support for UltraSPARC, Solaris is
>going to be best, and I believe that Solaris 10 is freely available
>from Sun.  But that's not what I would consider an "open source"
>operating system.

That's our fallback plan.

>	In terms of Open Source operating systems for UltraSPARC,
>NetBSD is probably going to be the best, with OpenBSD close behind
>(they split off from NetBSD not too long ago), and FreeBSD catching
>up very quickly.  There may be some Linux distributions which also
>support UltraSPARC, and they might have been decent in the past, but
>I think they're tending to drop it in the same way that Debian has
>done.

FreeBSD works great if you don't need a keyboard, a mouse, or a monitor.
Not an insurmountable problem for a server, but the FreeBSD hardware
support of the sparcs is a lot spottier than NetBSD or OpenBSD.  The
guy who started OpenBSD was responsible for the sparc ports for
NetBSD.

>> My previous service provider used postfix, and we had recurrent problems
>> with Mailman's queues getting silently hung up.  A friend of mine who
>> runs a Mailman/postfix site also has the same problem.
>
>	Hung up?  In what way?

All mailing lists on the server silently stop sending posts.  No errors in the
logs, no console messages, no nothing.  Qrunners still appear to be
functioning normally.  A mail loopback test diagnoses the problem and
restarting Mailman clears it.

As I said, I haven't been able to see this problem since I started running
my own server.  It was happening at least once a week before that.

>> 	* Exim's ability to handle VERP processing through the MTA
>> 	rather than having Mailman have to do it.
>
>	Postfix has support for XVERP, and there have been patches
>posted which allow Mailman to take advantage of that.  I don't
>personally like that option, as I don't think it really saves you
>anything, and it certainly takes a lot of the control away from
>Mailman that I would normally want to maintain.  But if you want
>this, you can do it with postfix.

With exim, trying to do VERP processing on the digest runs caused Mailman
to flood exim, even when I turned the number of sessions and connections
way down.  It also brought my poor Mac, which was not meant to be a server,
to its knees.  I'm hoping that the sparc will be able to handle peak loads more
gracefully than a Powerbook.

One of the reasons that I'm considering Postfix is that I wonder whether
it might be more efficient than exim.  I have a hunch that exim might do
more work than it needs to to get the job done.

>> 	* Exim's fine degree of control of transient and permanent
>> 	delivery errors (by host, by address, by error type).
>
>	I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about.  Can you
>be more specific?  I know that postfix gives you a lot of control in
>these areas, but without knowing more about how Exim does them, it's
>hard to compare.

It's described in excruciating detail in section 32 of the exim specification.

	http://www.exim.org/exim-html-4.50/doc/html/spec.html

Basically, you can have a set of retry rules that go like this:

	host (or regexp)	error (or regexp)	retry strategy

	the.host.name  rcpt_452   F,1h,10m
	*                      quota	F,4d,6h
	*                      *		F,2h,20m; G,16h,1h,1.5; F,4d,6h

The first rule tells exim to retry rcpt_452 errors for host the.host.name every
ten minutes for an hour and then fail.  The second tells exim to retry all quota
overruns every six hours for four days.  The third rule says that all other errors
should be retried every 20 minutes for two hours, then at increasingly longer intervals
for the next 14 hours, then every six hours until 4 days have elapsed.

Okay, so it's not simple.  Easy enough to figure out, though, and it does give
you the ability to tune exim to deal with the kinds of errors that you run into.
It pains me to see endless retries of errors that aren't going to go away in minutes.

>> 	* Ease of configuration and administration.
>
>	Postfix is the only MTA on the planet that can have a truly
>useful two-line configuration file.  Moreover, it has the most
>intelligible configuration file that I have ever seen.  Better
>still, it comes up "default secure", unlike every other MTA I've
>ever seen.
>
>	I've seen Exim configuration files, and it's hard to tell
>what goes where, what is a router versus all the other ways that
>certain things could be handled, etc....

As I said, I've never tried Postfix, so my only point of comparison is
sendmail.  I am fairly confident that any MTA would look simple and
friendly next to sendmail.

>	When looking at Exim and Mailman, there is a distinct issue
>that has to be kept in mind.  The instructions for integrating
>Mailman 2.0.x are oriented exclusively towards Exim 3.x, and the
>instructions for integrating Mailman 2.1.x are oriented exclusively
>towards Exim 4.x.  If you've got Exim 3.x and you want to use
>Mailman 2.1.x, you're screwed.

Fortunately, the documentation makes that abundantly clear. 

>> 	* Reliability.
>
>	All I can say is that the largest Mailman installations in
>the world (that I know of) exclusively use postfix.  You'd have to
>ask them why they went this route, but my personal belief is that
>postfix is more powerful, flexible, and scalable than Exim, or most
>anything else available.

How would you rate Postfix's efficiency?  Is it fast?  Does it limit
network traffic to the necessary and keep its disk reads and writes
down to a dull roar?

Bandwidth is a consideration, since this will all be flowing on a fairly
slow DSL line (speed in this case limited by geography).

>> What are some reasons that I would consider postfix instead of exim?
>
>	Well, for a small site, it mostly comes down to personal
>preference.  Regardless of whether I think that postfix is
>head-and-shoulders above Exim or not, if you're familiar with Exim
>and you feel comfortable administering it, then you should seriously
>consider continuing to go that route.  Of course, your hosting
>provider might also fit into this picture -- if they're not familiar
>with Exim, then if you have any problems you may not be able to rely
>on their help.

My ISP is just doing bandwidth and DNS entries, so they don't enter
into the picture at all.  At this point, I'm my own service provider.

>	We use postfix on python.org for mailman-users and the other
>mailing lists we host, the freebsd.org folks use it for their mail
>servers, and lists.apple.com use it for theirs.  However, just
>because we use postfix does not necessarily mean that you have to.

Do you know why the choice was made to use Postfix on any of those
sites?  

-- 
Heather Madrone  (heather at madrone.com)  http://www.madrone.com

A rolling stone gathers no mass.


From jwblist at olympus.net  Fri Mar 25 23:34:38 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 14:34:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTAs
In-Reply-To: <p06210241be6a31f31ae5@[192.168.123.100]>
Message-ID: <BE69D1FE.39F6%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 3/25/2005 14:25, "Heather Madrone" <heather at madrone.com> wrote:

> As I said, I've never tried Postfix, so my only point of comparison is
> sendmail.  I am fairly confident that any MTA would look simple and
> friendly next to sendmail.

You probably shouldn't say "any" in that context.  Exchange lurks out there.
(Not part of your universe, or ours, but it is out there.)

  --John



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Mar 25 23:14:15 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 23:14:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTAs
In-Reply-To: <BE69C725.39F1%jwblist@olympus.net>
References: <BE69C725.39F1%jwblist@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <p0620071cbe6a3c9c9f0c@[10.0.1.3]>

At 1:48 PM -0800 2005-03-25, John W. Baxter wrote:

>  Debian woody notwithstanding, no one should be installing and running Exim 3
>  these days.  There is essentially no one readily available (eg, on the
>  exim-users mailing list) who remembers much about it.

	Think someone who already has Exim 3 on their legacy machine, and 
wants to upgrade Mailman but not anything else.  You'd be surprised 
how many people out there are in this position.

>  (After 10 years of reading Exim logs, and a few minutes reading Postfix
>  logs, I would reverse Brad's characterization (I don't know how configurable
>  Postfix's logging is...Exim can add or drop many aspects of the log
>  entries).  Actually, the Postfix logs look quite reasonable.)

	Indeed, that's one of the aspects I find most confusing about 
Exim's log information.  Trying to help out this one site, I ended up 
having to turn on all possible logging in order to get some clue as 
to what was going on, because it was totally unclear as to which 
particular little fiddly bit I needed to tweak in order to see the 
information I needed.

	Log configuration is an area where I consider Exim to be the 
weakest.  Conversely, this is an area where I think postfix shines.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From jwblist at olympus.net  Sat Mar 26 01:02:26 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 16:02:26 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTAs
In-Reply-To: <p0620071cbe6a3c9c9f0c@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <BE69E692.39FC%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 3/25/2005 14:14, "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote:

>>  Debian woody notwithstanding, no one should be installing and running Exim 3
>>  these days.  There is essentially no one readily available (eg, on the
>>  exim-users mailing list) who remembers much about it.
> 
> Think someone who already has Exim 3 on their legacy machine, and
> wants to upgrade Mailman but not anything else.  You'd be surprised
> how many people out there are in this position.

Very likely, they can't, taking that problem statement literally.  Because
very likely, they have an ancient Python as well, and Mailman won't run with
it.

And I have no way to help them.  I could probably manage to configure the
old Exim to work with the new Mailman, but I have no interest in doing so.

On the other hand, the Python adjustment (if one is careful on an ancient
RedHat installation, where much breaks if one removes Python 1.5.2, or
points the name python at anything newer) is easier than the Exim upgrade,
since there is a large canyon between Exim 3 and Exim 4.

It may very well be best to try switching such a setup to Postfix (where I
also can't help), if one has a Postfix guru available.  That should be about
the same magnitude of change as Exim 3 to Exim 4.

  --John



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Mar 26 01:37:34 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 01:37:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTAs
In-Reply-To: <p06210241be6a31f31ae5@[192.168.123.100]>
References: <52288.199.38.51.133.1111675305.squirrel@mail.atomicxterra.com>
	<424459F1.1080605@owbn.org>
	<p0621023ebe6a15817020@[192.168.123.100]>
	<p06200716be6a25f24f35@[10.0.1.3]>
	<p06210241be6a31f31ae5@[192.168.123.100]>
Message-ID: <p0620071ebe6a541a20ae@[10.0.1.3]>

At 2:25 PM -0800 2005-03-25, Heather Madrone wrote:

>  FreeBSD works great if you don't need a keyboard, a mouse, or a monitor.

	They are oriented towards the serial console at the moment, but 
I'm sure that the rest will come along.  I've got four UltraSPARC 10 
clones that I plan on using under FreeBSD (perhaps turning them into 
a small package build cluster), and I'll make myself a guinea pig.

>  Not an insurmountable problem for a server, but the FreeBSD hardware
>  support of the sparcs is a lot spottier than NetBSD or OpenBSD.

	It's not as good for FreeBSD as it should be, no.

>  All mailing lists on the server silently stop sending posts.  No 
>errors in the
>  logs, no console messages, no nothing.  Qrunners still appear to be
>  functioning normally.  A mail loopback test diagnoses the problem and
>  restarting Mailman clears it.

	Huh.  Weird.  I've never heard of anything like that.

>  With exim, trying to do VERP processing on the digest runs caused Mailman
>  to flood exim, even when I turned the number of sessions and connections
>  way down.  It also brought my poor Mac, which was not meant to be a server,
>  to its knees.  I'm hoping that the sparc will be able to handle peak
>  loads more gracefully than a Powerbook.

	Depends on the powerbook, the UltraSPARC configuration, etc....


	Generally speaking, for things like this, assuming you have 
enough RAM and network I/O capacity, the principal limiting factor 
becomes synchronous meta-data I/O.  Every time you create a file, 
delete a file, move a file from one directory to another, or rename a 
file, you're doing synchronous meta-data I/O.  This means that the 
entire directory has to be locked while the operation is taking place.

	Now, locking the entire directory, doing the operationg, and 
unlocking the entire directory, is something that usually happens 
pretty quickly.  However, try doing that thousands of times per 
second, and you run into very serious bottleneck issues.

	Of course, one thing an MTA does more than anything else is 
create lots and lots of little files, which don't live for very long.


	In this situation, *BSD with softupdates will be your best bet on 
the filesystem side.  The cool thing about softupdates is that it 
re-orders the disk I/O operations in a safe manner, and if the file 
is created and goes away quickly enough, then the I/O is never pushed 
to disk at all.

	All the *BSD implementations should be capable of enabling softupdates.

	If you do end up having to go with Solaris, make sure that you 
enable filesystem logging.  It's not as good as softupdates (although 
Sun did buy the rights to softupdates from Kirk, and is incorporating 
them into a future version of Solaris), but filesystem logging is 
better than nothing.

	Note that Apple doesn't have anything like softupdates for MacOS 
X, although more recent versions have introduced a type of journaling 
for the filesystem.  Unfortunately, in this case it actually slows 
things down a bit, but it does improve robustness in a crash, so 
overall it's still a win.

>  One of the reasons that I'm considering Postfix is that I wonder whether
>  it might be more efficient than exim.  I have a hunch that exim might do
>  more work than it needs to to get the job done.

	In all my testing, when it comes to the basic operations of a 
mail server, postfix has been the most efficient MTA that I've ever 
found.  I've tried very, very hard to push sendmail to be faster and 
more efficient, and I still believe that can be done, although I 
haven't managed it -- and I consider myself to be a specialist in 
this area.

	I haven't been able to do much testing with Exim towards this 
end.  However, Phil Hazel has said some very complimentary things 
about postfix in this regard, and I have a very hard time believing 
that Exim can compete.

>  Okay, so it's not simple.  Easy enough to figure out, though, and it
>  does give you the ability to tune exim to deal with the kinds of errors
>  that you run into.  It pains me to see endless retries of errors that
>  aren't going to go away in minutes.

	Postfix tries to be smarter about these sorts of things without 
requiring any kind of complex configuration.  It uses a bounded 
exponential backoff scheme, the same type of scheme that has been 
proven over time throughout TCP/IP, Ethernet, and other network 
protocols.

	Postfix does include some pretty advanced tools for diagnosing 
queueing problems (see <http://www.postfix.org/QSHAPE_README.html>), 
and once you've identified any particular problem domains you can 
then create separate queues dedicated to them so that everything else 
is unaffected.  There's also some pretty extensive performance tuning 
tips at <http://www.postfix.org/TUNING_README.html>.

>  How would you rate Postfix's efficiency?  Is it fast?  Does it limit
>  network traffic to the necessary and keep its disk reads and writes
>  down to a dull roar?

	Postfix is the fastest MTA I've ever tested.  It's smart about 
trying parallelism to remote sites, and using backing off when it 
detects that the remote site can't handle the load.  If you like, 
you're able to configure higher amounts of parallelism for given 
remote sites.

	Pretty much everything in postfix is table driven, and those 
tables can be in most any form of database you like -- Berkeley DB, 
*dbm, MySQL, LDAP, plain text files, or whatever.  In some areas, it 
uses regular expressions, and you typically have options of 
Unix-style regular expressions or Perl-compatible REs, etc....

>  Bandwidth is a consideration, since this will all be flowing on a fairly
>  slow DSL line (speed in this case limited by geography).

	Personally, I can't think of an MTA that would be better suited 
for this environment, but then I have been involved in postfix since 
'97, back before it was officially announced and it was still called 
VMailer.  I'm a bit biased.  ;)

>  Do you know why the choice was made to use Postfix on any of those
>  sites?

	I can't speak for lists.apple.com or freebsd.org, but on 
python.org it was a combination of the people who were going to be 
managing the system feeling more comfortable with postfix than 
anything else, plus our view that postfix would probably outperform 
anything else we could throw at it.

	The previous mail server for python.org used Exim, and it was not 
well-maintained.  Only one person really understood much of anything 
about it, and he wasn't around very much.  The machine itself was 
also pretty old and slow, and not well-maintained.  The new machine 
is much faster and better maintained, but I don't know how we would 
have done if we would have used Exim on the same box.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Mar 26 02:12:09 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 02:12:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTAs
In-Reply-To: <BE69E692.39FC%jwblist@olympus.net>
References: <BE69E692.39FC%jwblist@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <p0620071fbe6a66696b43@[10.0.1.3]>

At 4:02 PM -0800 2005-03-25, John W. Baxter wrote:

>  And I have no way to help them.  I could probably manage to configure the
>  old Exim to work with the new Mailman, but I have no interest in doing so.

	Therein lies a big part of the problem.  If you're not willing to 
help, and the rest of the Exim community feels the same way, then the 
people who are in this situation are doomed unless they switch to 
other software.

>  On the other hand, the Python adjustment (if one is careful on an ancient
>  RedHat installation, where much breaks if one removes Python 1.5.2, or
>  points the name python at anything newer) is easier than the Exim upgrade,
>  since there is a large canyon between Exim 3 and Exim 4.

	This whole Exim 3/Exim 4 thing is not a problem with postfix. 
Don't get me wrong, postfix isn't perfect.  But what flaws it has 
tend to be less visible than this, and the issue of upgrading from 
one version to another usually has more to do with whether or not a 
binary package with the new version has yet been prepared, or whether 
they're willing to take the risk of going straight to the original 
source.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From rosander at owbn.org  Sat Mar 26 02:44:18 2005
From: rosander at owbn.org (Ross Anderson)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 19:44:18 -0600
Subject: FW: [Mailman-Users] temporary delivery error
Message-ID: <83BE23B75CE13C438D99EF7B4E9D41B8018688C6@act1.guthrietheater.org>



-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad at stop.mail-abuse.org] 
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 2:32 PM
To: ross at dsotm.net
Cc: John W. Baxter; Mailman Users; Ross Anderson
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] temporary delivery error

At 1:46 PM -0600 2005-03-25, Ross Anderson wrote:

>  Well the confusion I seem to be having here is cyrus-mailman related

> since it is the program handling local quota's. Cyrus bounces mail 
> when  single mail is recieved from local or outside mail accounts.

	What LDA do you have configured for use with Cyrus?


I'm confused here with what you are referring to when you say local
delivery agent. Postfix is the MTP that delivers to cryus-imap via its
own lmtp "local" agent. I have attached the postfix .cf files below. 


>                                                                This  
> odd behaviour only occurs with mailman which is why I'm a bit puzzled.

> I'd like to get the message bouncing back to mailman right away like  
> it does with users that are not locally hosted.

	I think that this is a difference in the way that the LDA is 
called, or perhaps using different Cyrus-compatible LDAs.  At the 
very least, you need a lot more information about how your MTA is 
configured to talk to your LDA, and how your LDA is configured to 
handle certain situations.





-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.



alias_database = hash:/etc/mail/aliases
alias_maps = hash:/etc/mail/aliases, 
        hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
biff = no
command_directory = /usr/sbin
config_directory = /etc/postfix
content_filter = smtp-amavis:[127.0.0.1]:10024
daemon_directory = /usr/lib/postfix
debug_peer_level = 2
default_destination_concurrency_limit = 20
default_privs = mailman
local_destination_concurrency_limit = 2
local_recipient_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual.cf, 
        proxy:hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman, 
        $alias_maps
mailbox_transport = cyrus
mailq_path = /usr/bin/mailq
manpage_directory = /usr/share/man
maximal_backoff_time = 9000s
minimal_backoff_time = 4000s
mydestination = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual.cf, $mydomain
myhostname = mail.owbn.org mynetworks_style = host myorigin = $mydomain
newaliases_path = /usr/bin/newaliases owner_request_special = no
proxy_read_maps = proxy:hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
queue_run_delay = 2000s
readme_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.0.16-r1/readme
recipient_delimiter = +
sample_directory = /usr/share/doc/postfix-2.0.16-r1/sample
sender_canonical_maps = mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-canonical.cf
sendmail_path = /usr/sbin/sendmail
setgid_group = postdrop
smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_mynetworks,
        check_client_access hash:/etc/mail/popip,
        reject_unauth_destination,
        reject_rhsbl_client blackhole.securitysage.com,
        reject_rhsbl_sender blackhole.securitysage.com soft_bounce = no
unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550
unknown_virtual_alias_reject_code = 550 virtual_alias_domains =
/etc/postfix/virtual_domains virtual_alias_maps =
mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql-virtual.cf, 
        proxy:hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
relay_destination_concurrency_limit = 50
relay_destination_recipient_limit = 100



###Master.cf
#
========================================================================
==
# service type  private unpriv  chroot  wakeup  maxproc command + args
#               (yes)   (yes)   (yes)   (never) (100)
#
========================================================================
==
smtp      inet  n       -       n       -       -       smtpd
        -o cleanup_service_name=pre-cleanup
#smtps    inet  n       -       n       -       -       smtpd
#  -o smtpd_tls_wrappermode=yes -o smtpd_sasl_auth_enable=yes
#submission     inet    n       -       n       -       -       smtpd
#  -o smtpd_enforce_tls=yes -o smtpd_sasl_auth_enable=yes
#628      inet  n       -       n       -       -       qmqpd
pickup    fifo  n       -       n       60      1       pickup
        -o cleanup_service_name=pre-cleanup
pre-cleanup  unix n     -       n       -       0       cleanup
    -o virtual_alias_maps=
    -o canonical_maps=
    -o sender_canonical_maps=
    -o recipient_canonical_maps=
    -o masquerade_domains=
qmgr      fifo  n       -       n       300     1       qmgr
#qmgr     fifo  n       -       n       300     1       nqmgr
#tlsmgr   fifo  -       -       n       300     1       tlsmgr
rewrite   unix  -       -       n       -       -       trivial-rewrite
bounce    unix  -       -       n       -       0       bounce
defer     unix  -       -       n       -       0       bounce
flush     unix  n       -       n       1000?   0       flush
proxymap  unix  -       -       n       -       -       proxymap
smtp      unix  -       -       n       -       -       smtp
relay     unix  -       -       n       -       -       smtp
#       -o smtp_helo_timeout=5 -o smtp_connect_timeout=5
cleanup unix    n       -       n       -       0       cleanup
    -o mime_header_checks=
    -o nested_header_checks=
    -o body_checks=
    -o header_checks=
showq     unix  n       -       n       -       -       showq
error     unix  -       -       n       -       -       error
local     unix  -       n       n       -       -       local
virtual   unix  -       n       n       -       -       virtual
lmtp      unix  -       -       n       -       -       lmtp

###for amavisd below DONT TOUCH

127.0.0.1:10025 inet n  -       n     -       -  smtpd
    -o content_filter=
    -o local_recipient_maps=
    -o smtpd_helo_restrictions=
    -o smtpd_client_restrictions=
    -o smtpd_sender_restrictions=
    -o smtpd_recipient_restrictions=permit_mynetworks,reject
    -o relay_recipient_maps=
    -o smtpd_restriction_classes=
    -o mynetworks=127.0.0.0/8
    -o strict_rfc821_envelopes=yes
    -o smtpd_error_sleep_time=0
    -o smtpd_soft_error_limit=1001
    -o smtpd_hard_error_limit=1000
#smtp-amavis unix - - y - 2 smtp -o smtp_send_xforward_command=yes -o
smtp_data_done_timeout=1200 -o disable_dns_lookups=yes smtp-amavis unix
- - y - 5 lmtp -o lmtp_data_done_timeout=1200 -o
lmtp_send_xforward_command=yes

maildrop  unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
  flags=DRhu user=vmail argv=/usr/local/bin/maildrop -d ${recipient}
old-cyrus unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
  flags=R user=cyrus argv=/usr/lib/cyrus/deliver -e -m ${extension}
${user}
cyrus     unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
  user=cyrus argv=/usr/lib/cyrus/deliver -e -r ${sender} -m ${extension}
${user}
uucp      unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
  flags=Fqhu user=uucp argv=uux -r -n -z -a$sender - $nexthop!rmail
($recipient)
ifmail    unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
  flags=F user=ftn argv=/usr/lib/ifmail/ifmail -r $nexthop ($recipient)
bsmtp     unix  -       n       n       -       -       pipe
  flags=Fq. user=foo argv=/usr/local/sbin/bsmtp -f $sender $nexthop
$recipient




From jwt at onjapan.net  Sat Mar 26 03:08:06 2005
From: jwt at onjapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 11:08:06 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTAs
In-Reply-To: <p0620071fbe6a66696b43@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <BE69E692.39FC%jwblist@olympus.net>
	<p0620071fbe6a66696b43@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <0815e83878388c0573e5fa303aa271a3@onjapan.net>

On Mar 26, 2005, at 10:12, Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 4:02 PM -0800 2005-03-25, John W. Baxter wrote:
>
>>  And I have no way to help them.  I could probably manage to 
>> configure the
>>  old Exim to work with the new Mailman, but I have no interest in 
>> doing so.
>
> 	Therein lies a big part of the problem.  If you're not willing to 
> help, and the rest of the Exim community feels the same way, then the 
> people who are in this situation are doomed unless they switch to 
> other software.

I've not had any problem using Exim 3 with Mailman 2.1.  If there are 
some specific problems you are having, I'm willing to try to help.  
(But Exim 4's flexibility makes it a worthwhile upgrade. :-)

python.net uses Exim.
-- 
Jim Tittsler     http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship  http://Starship.Python.net/
Mailman IRC      irc://irc.freenode.net/#mailman



From jwblist at olympus.net  Sat Mar 26 03:21:13 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 18:21:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTAs
In-Reply-To: <p0620071ebe6a541a20ae@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <BE6A0719.3A0D%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 3/25/2005 16:37, "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote:

> In this situation, *BSD with softupdates will be your best bet on
> the filesystem side.  The cool thing about softupdates is that it
> re-orders the disk I/O operations in a safe manner, and if the file
> is created and goes away quickly enough, then the I/O is never pushed
> to disk at all.
> 
> All the *BSD implementations should be capable of enabling softupdates.

That's all very well, but the reason that all those little files are created
and destroyed is that it isn't safe to hold the data in RAM, and once an MTA
has accepted a message, a mere power outage isn't supposed to cause it to
drop the message on the floor.  (There are even words in the mail RFCs about
it.)

Unless softupdates "sees" power outages and hustles the data onto disk
(which is probably feasible) it would not be considered MTA-suitable (and
Exim does what it can to prevent it, using whatever force to disk calls are
available to it).

  --John



From jwblist at olympus.net  Sat Mar 26 03:31:58 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 18:31:58 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTAs
In-Reply-To: <p0620071fbe6a66696b43@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <BE6A099E.3A0F%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 3/25/2005 17:12, "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote:

> This whole Exim 3/Exim 4 thing is not a problem with postfix.
> Don't get me wrong, postfix isn't perfect.  But what flaws it has
> tend to be less visible than this, and the issue of upgrading from
> one version to another usually has more to do with whether or not a
> binary package with the new version has yet been prepared, or whether
> they're willing to take the risk of going straight to the original
> source.

Philip is very conscious of backwards compatibility, and very consciously
broke it in the Exim 3 to Exim 4 transition, because the old configuration
system and the old way of managing messages had been outgrown by reality.

There are several configuration defaults which are suboptimal in today's
world, but are not being changed because they would break backwards
compatibility.

Most Exim version upgrades are a matter of making the change, then deciding
what new features to use and adding them to the config (and perhaps removing
workarounds for feature lacks and bugs which have been fixed).

But at any rate, Exim 3 to ?? Is a very good opportunity to consider Postfix
rather than Exim 4 as the ??.  Mailman 2.x to 3.0 will likely present a
similar opportunity to look around at what else there is.  (The seemingly
never-ending lack of Majordomo 2 was what moved us to Mailman from
Majordomo.)

  --John



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Mar 26 03:58:29 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 03:58:29 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTAs
In-Reply-To: <BE6A0719.3A0D%jwblist@olympus.net>
References: <BE6A0719.3A0D%jwblist@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <p06200722be6a7e901473@[10.0.1.3]>

At 6:21 PM -0800 2005-03-25, John W. Baxter wrote:

>  Unless softupdates "sees" power outages and hustles the data onto disk
>  (which is probably feasible) it would not be considered MTA-suitable (and
>  Exim does what it can to prevent it, using whatever force to disk calls are
>  available to it).

	The problem is that with modern disks not flushing cache data 
even when they're told to do so, it's virtually impossible to 
guarantee that the data is written before you've lost power.  You're 
completely at the mercy of the hardware, and modern caches these days 
are easily large enough to hold a large number of small files.


	The typical Linux method of using async mounts fairly frequently 
results in filesystem corruption which needs to be corrected with 
fsck, and that can take a long time with a large filesystem.  Yes, 
journaling can ameliorate that problem to a degree, but you still 
need to turn off the async mount if you want as much as they can give 
you in terms of "full protection".

	Softupdates makes sure that the filesystem on disk is always in a 
consistent state, and while a few files/messages may be lost in a 
power outage, the filesystem itself is okay and shouldn't ever need 
to fsck.  Given the modern world we live in and the realities we have 
to deal with, I think that's a pretty good trade-off.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Mar 26 04:05:20 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 04:05:20 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTAs
In-Reply-To: <BE6A099E.3A0F%jwblist@olympus.net>
References: <BE6A099E.3A0F%jwblist@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <p06200723be6a809d8f91@[10.0.1.3]>

At 6:31 PM -0800 2005-03-25, John W. Baxter wrote:

>  But at any rate, Exim 3 to ?? Is a very good opportunity to consider Postfix
>  rather than Exim 4 as the ??.  Mailman 2.x to 3.0 will likely present a
>  similar opportunity to look around at what else there is.

	I suspect that Mailman 2.x to 3.x will not be that rough.  Yes, 
the architectural changes internally are quite massive, but I see no 
reason that a "make upgrade" process shouldn't be able to read the 
old pickle format data and rewrite that into whatever the new format 
is.  I don't think that Mailman is as complex a program as either 
postfix or Exim, and I don't think the changes are going to be that 
painful.

	Of course, I wasn't around for the 2.0.x to 2.1.x conversion, so 
I can't speak for how this has worked in the past.

>                                                             (The seemingly
>  never-ending lack of Majordomo 2 was what moved us to Mailman from
>  Majordomo.)

	What drove me to Mailman was not the lack of Majordomo2 per se, 
but was that there were so many additional things I had to add to the 
system to get it working the way I wanted, and adding Majorcool plus 
MHonArc to our existing Majordomo installation was likely to be about 
as painful as switching everything over to Mailman instead.

	Mailman is certainly not perfect, but I think it's a lot more 
scalable and certainly more easily managed than Majordomo, and that's 
good enough for me.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From hmag at ozemail.com.au  Sat Mar 26 04:32:09 2005
From: hmag at ozemail.com.au (Terry Allen)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 14:32:09 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTAs
In-Reply-To: <p06200723be6a809d8f91@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <BE6A099E.3A0F%jwblist@olympus.net>
	<p06200723be6a809d8f91@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <p06210204be6a86c59af2@[203.53.37.182]>

>	I suspect that Mailman 2.x to 3.x will not be that rough.  Yes, the

Hi again,
	Just out of interest, on Postfix, there is a simple option to 
upgrade a running system like so (as most here will know):

make
stop postfix
make upgrade
start postfix

	I have never had to upgrade Mailman, as I started out using 
it on 2.1.5 - is the upgrade procedure for Mailman anything like 
Postfix? It's been foolproof thus far for me, so I'm hoping it works 
as well on Mailman when the time comes.
-- 

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___________________________________________________________________
hEARd

Postal Address:
	hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd,	Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia
Internet -
	WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com
EMAIL: hmag at ozemail.com.au
Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400
Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400
-----------------------------------------------
Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994
-----------------------------------------------


From lynn at siprelle.com  Sat Mar 26 04:58:52 2005
From: lynn at siprelle.com (Lynn Siprelle)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 19:58:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help! mailman not working with virtual servers 
Message-ID: <c337eab1e0adea902f37fc712a44559d@siprelle.com>

I am trying to move my heretofore working mailman installation from one 
server (FreeBSD/Sendmail) to another (RedHat/Exim). I can access my 
lists at my main url, but I get "Page not found" on the domains I host. 
The error  log says "premature end of script headers". None  of the 
lists have colliding names. Mailman is critical to my clients. I have 
been through the faq, the archives and the documentation. I've tried 
everything I could find that seemed applicable. help! Moving servers is 
bad enough without this crap!

Lynn

------
Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky
http://www.siprelle.com * http://www.thenewhomemaker.com
http://www.democracyfororegon.com * http://www.knitting911.net



From hmag at ozemail.com.au  Sat Mar 26 05:04:41 2005
From: hmag at ozemail.com.au (Terry Allen)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 15:04:41 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help! mailman not working with virtual servers
In-Reply-To: <c337eab1e0adea902f37fc712a44559d@siprelle.com>
References: <c337eab1e0adea902f37fc712a44559d@siprelle.com>
Message-ID: <p06210205be6a8f479950@[203.53.37.182]>

>I am trying to move my heretofore working mailman installation from 
>one server (FreeBSD/Sendmail) to another (RedHat/Exim). I can access 
>my lists at my main url, but I get "Page not found" on the domains I 
>host. The error  log says "premature end of script headers". None 
>of the lists have colliding names. Mailman is critical to my 
>clients. I have been through the faq, the archives and the 
>documentation. I've tried everything I could find that seemed 
>applicable. help! Moving servers is bad enough without this crap!
>
>Lynn
Hi again,
	If the error is 'premature end of script headers', I would 
hazard a guess that the CGI is not being interpreted by the server 
correctly for Mailman, or it is being interpreted as a binary file 
rather than a text file for execution.
	I'd have a look at the mailman installation on the new server 
for cgi execution firstly
-- 

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___________________________________________________________________
hEARd

Postal Address:
	hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd,	Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia
Internet -
	WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com
EMAIL: hmag at ozemail.com.au
Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400
Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400
-----------------------------------------------
Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994
-----------------------------------------------


From lynn at siprelle.com  Sat Mar 26 05:11:51 2005
From: lynn at siprelle.com (Lynn Siprelle)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 20:11:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help! mailman not working with virtual servers
In-Reply-To: <p06210205be6a8f479950@[203.53.37.182]>
References: <c337eab1e0adea902f37fc712a44559d@siprelle.com>
	<p06210205be6a8f479950@[203.53.37.182]>
Message-ID: <8d5586946fd4db0070fe1f35cd253a3b@siprelle.com>


On Mar 25, 2005, at 8:04 PM, Terry Allen wrote:

>> I am trying to move my heretofore working mailman installation from 
>> one server (FreeBSD/Sendmail) to another (RedHat/Exim). I can access 
>> my lists at my main url, but I get "Page not found" on the domains I 
>> host. The error  log says "premature end of script headers". None of 
>> the lists have colliding names. Mailman is critical to my clients. I 
>> have been through the faq, the archives and the documentation. I've 
>> tried everything I could find that seemed applicable. help! Moving 
>> servers is bad enough without this crap!
>>
>> Lynn
> Hi again,
> 	If the error is 'premature end of script headers', I would hazard a 
> guess that the CGI is not being interpreted by the server correctly 
> for Mailman, or it is being interpreted as a binary file rather than a 
> text file for execution.
> 	I'd have a look at the mailman installation on the new server for cgi 
> execution firstly

But why would it work on the main url but not the virtual ones? Here's 
what I mean.

This works:
http://lsiprelle.simpli.biz/mailman/listinfo

This doesn't:
http://www.democracyfororegon.com/mailman/listinfo

Same server, same mailman installation. The first one runs fine, the 
second one throws premature end of script headers.

Lynn

------
Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky
http://www.siprelle.com * http://www.thenewhomemaker.com
http://www.democracyfororegon.com * http://www.knitting911.net



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar 26 05:29:41 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 20:29:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help! mailman not working with virtual servers
In-Reply-To: <8d5586946fd4db0070fe1f35cd253a3b@siprelle.com>
Message-ID: <PC17452005032520294100000a4c3ea9@msapiro>

Lynn Siprelle wrote:
>
>But why would it work on the main url but not the virtual ones? Here's 
>what I mean.
>
>This works:
>http://lsiprelle.simpli.biz/mailman/listinfo
>
>This doesn't:
>http://www.democracyfororegon.com/mailman/listinfo
>
>Same server, same mailman installation. The first one runs fine, the 
>second one throws premature end of script headers.


What is your web server? What's in the VirtualHost (or whatever)
section of the web server config for the www.democracyfororegon.com
domain?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jwblist at olympus.net  Sat Mar 26 06:35:42 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 21:35:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTAs
In-Reply-To: <p06200723be6a809d8f91@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <BE6A34AE.3A2A%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 3/25/2005 19:05, "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote:

> At 6:31 PM -0800 2005-03-25, John W. Baxter wrote:
> 
>>  But at any rate, Exim 3 to ?? Is a very good opportunity to consider Postfix
>>  rather than Exim 4 as the ??.  Mailman 2.x to 3.0 will likely present a
>>  similar opportunity to look around at what else there is.
> 
> I suspect that Mailman 2.x to 3.x will not be that rough.  Yes,
> the architectural changes internally are quite massive, but I see no
> reason that a "make upgrade" process shouldn't be able to read the
> old pickle format data and rewrite that into whatever the new format
> is.  I don't think that Mailman is as complex a program as either
> postfix or Exim, and I don't think the changes are going to be that
> painful.
> 
> Of course, I wasn't around for the 2.0.x to 2.1.x conversion, so
> I can't speak for how this has worked in the past.
> 
>>                                                             (The seemingly
>>  never-ending lack of Majordomo 2 was what moved us to Mailman from
>>  Majordomo.)
> 
> What drove me to Mailman was not the lack of Majordomo2 per se,
> but was that there were so many additional things I had to add to the
> system to get it working the way I wanted, and adding Majorcool plus
> MHonArc to our existing Majordomo installation was likely to be about
> as painful as switching everything over to Mailman instead.
> 
> Mailman is certainly not perfect, but I think it's a lot more
> scalable and certainly more easily managed than Majordomo, and that's
> good enough for me.



From jwblist at olympus.net  Sat Mar 26 07:03:31 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 22:03:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MTAs
In-Reply-To: <p06210204be6a86c59af2@[203.53.37.182]>
Message-ID: <BE6A3B33.3A30%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 3/25/2005 19:32, "Terry Allen" <hmag at ozemail.com.au> wrote:

>> I suspect that Mailman 2.x to 3.x will not be that rough.  Yes, the
> 
> Hi again,
> Just out of interest, on Postfix, there is a simple option to
> upgrade a running system like so (as most here will know):
> 
> make
> stop postfix
> make upgrade
> start postfix
> 
> I have never had to upgrade Mailman, as I started out using
> it on 2.1.5 - is the upgrade procedure for Mailman anything like
> Postfix? It's been foolproof thus far for me, so I'm hoping it works
> as well on Mailman when the time comes.

Well, it's basically that.  (The 2.0x to 2.1x jump for us involved a change
of servers, and server locations, and a huge jump in Linux version, so we
couldn't do the straighforward install the new over the old and turn it on.)

Unless one uses RedHat's RPMs...which will soon move things Mailman around
considerably.  

That's probably a good thing...having configuration mixed with code mixed
with data is not really a good idea.  RedHat's new arrangement looks a lot
better to me--I might well copy it even if I don't use the RPMs.  And even
with all the changes, the process will essentially involve copying the stuff
in $prefix/lists and $prefix/archives (and maybe something else) to the
right new places.

Having configuration *be* code, while a nice use of Python's capabilities,
also presents problems to those who believe that code and configuration
should be disjoint...RedHat has managed it without bending *too* much.

  --John



From lynn at siprelle.com  Sat Mar 26 08:39:27 2005
From: lynn at siprelle.com (Lynn Siprelle)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 23:39:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help! mailman not working with virtual servers
In-Reply-To: <PC17452005032520294100000a4c3ea9@msapiro>
References: <PC17452005032520294100000a4c3ea9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <176164b9c2a3e33b63938b77e281a015@siprelle.com>

>> This works:
>> http://lsiprelle.simpli.biz/mailman/listinfo
>>
>> This doesn't:
>> http://www.democracyfororegon.com/mailman/listinfo
>>
>> Same server, same mailman installation. The first one runs fine, the
>> second one throws premature end of script headers.
>
>
> What is your web server? What's in the VirtualHost (or whatever)
> section of the web server config for the www.democracyfororegon.com
> domain?

Apache 1.3.33

<VirtualHost 208.185.251.142:80>
ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/

	ServerName www.democracyfororegon.com
	ServerAlias www.democracyfororegon.com democracyfororegon.com
	ServerAdmin webmaster at democracyfororegon.com
	DocumentRoot /home/admin/domains/democracyfororegon.com/public_html
	ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/ 
/home/admin/domains/democracyfororegon.com/public_html/cgi-bin/

	UseCanonicalName OFF

	User admin
	Group admin
	CustomLog /var/log/httpd/domains/democracyfororegon.com.bytes bytes
	CustomLog /var/log/httpd/domains/democracyfororegon.com.log combined
	ErrorLog /var/log/httpd/domains/democracyfororegon.com.error.log

	<Directory /home/admin/domains/democracyfororegon.com/public_html>
		Options +Includes -Indexes
		php_admin_flag engine ON
		php_admin_flag safe_mode OFF
		php_admin_value sendmail_path '/usr/sbin/sendmail -t -i -f 
admin at democracyfororegon.com'
	</Directory>



	#php_admin_value open_basedir 
/home/admin/:/tmp/:/var/www/:/usr/local/lib/php/:/etc/virtual/

</VirtualHost>

Thanks.

Lynn

------
Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky
http://www.siprelle.com * http://www.thenewhomemaker.com
http://www.democracyfororegon.com * http://www.knitting911.net



From lynn at siprelle.com  Sat Mar 26 08:57:56 2005
From: lynn at siprelle.com (Lynn Siprelle)
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 23:57:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help! mailman not working with virtual servers
In-Reply-To: <176164b9c2a3e33b63938b77e281a015@siprelle.com>
References: <PC17452005032520294100000a4c3ea9@msapiro>
	<176164b9c2a3e33b63938b77e281a015@siprelle.com>
Message-ID: <8e503109976b19ae408b17a6eaa25f89@siprelle.com>

I should also have added that I'm using the current beta.

>> What is your web server? What's in the VirtualHost (or whatever)
>> section of the web server config for the www.democracyfororegon.com
>> domain?
>
> Apache 1.3.33
>
> <VirtualHost 208.185.251.142:80>
> ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
>
> 	ServerName www.democracyfororegon.com
> 	ServerAlias www.democracyfororegon.com democracyfororegon.com
> 	ServerAdmin webmaster at democracyfororegon.com
> 	DocumentRoot /home/admin/domains/democracyfororegon.com/public_html
> 	ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/  
> /home/admin/domains/democracyfororegon.com/public_html/cgi-bin/
>
> 	UseCanonicalName OFF
>
> 	User admin
> 	Group admin
> 	CustomLog /var/log/httpd/domains/democracyfororegon.com.bytes bytes
> 	CustomLog /var/log/httpd/domains/democracyfororegon.com.log combined
> 	ErrorLog /var/log/httpd/domains/democracyfororegon.com.error.log
>
> 	<Directory /home/admin/domains/democracyfororegon.com/public_html>
> 		Options +Includes -Indexes
> 		php_admin_flag engine ON
> 		php_admin_flag safe_mode OFF
> 		php_admin_value sendmail_path '/usr/sbin/sendmail -t -i -f  
> admin at democracyfororegon.com'
> 	</Directory>
>
>
>
> 	#php_admin_value open_basedir  
> /home/admin/:/tmp/:/var/www/:/usr/local/lib/php/:/etc/virtual/
>
> </VirtualHost>
>
> Thanks.
>
> Lynn
>
> ------
> Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky
> http://www.siprelle.com * http://www.thenewhomemaker.com
> http://www.democracyfororegon.com * http://www.knitting911.net
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:  
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:  
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ 
> lynn%40siprelle.com
>
> Security Policy:  
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp; 
> file=faq01.027.htp
>
>
------
Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky
http://www.siprelle.com * http://www.thenewhomemaker.com
http://www.democracyfororegon.com * http://www.knitting911.net



From dtownhome at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 26 09:26:17 2005
From: dtownhome at earthlink.net (Don)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 05 03:26:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Moderator ability to manager users
Message-ID: <E1DF6cK-00057d-00@pop-a065c05.pas.sa.earthlink.net>

>From: Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
>Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Moderator ability to manager users
>To: "Peter McCarroll" <peter at mccarroll.org>
>Cc: mailman-users at python.org
>Message-ID: <p0620070fbe6a0654e640@[10.0.1.3]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
>At 9:25 AM -0800 2005-03-24, Peter McCarroll wrote:
>
>>  I have a number of Mailman lists on my server.  I want to retain control
>>  of the list configuration settings centrally (and not give out the
>>  administrator password to others), but allow each list "owner" to moderate
>>  and manage the subscriptions.
>
>	Mailman doesn't work that way.  Moderators can approve, reject, 
>or discard postings that have been held for them to look at, but 
>that's about it.  If you want to do anything more, you need to be an 
>Administrator.
>
>	Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any alternatives to give you more 
>fine-grained control over who can do what.

Actually I was going to ask about the same thing.  Would be great if
there were a way to give 'line item control' to list owners based on
their 'track record' of credibility (brains?) over time.  Some guys
probably just won't have a clue why they shouldn't change certain
things. MM is very well set up but there is so much stuff to learn
that just the volume made the learning curve daunting at first.
Limited access that 'grows' would keep that more sane for some
newbie list owners as well as the poor slob who has to fix the
stuff they mess up.

/noisemaking

Don


From jwt at onjapan.net  Sat Mar 26 12:07:46 2005
From: jwt at onjapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 20:07:46 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help! mailman not working with virtual servers
In-Reply-To: <176164b9c2a3e33b63938b77e281a015@siprelle.com>
References: <PC17452005032520294100000a4c3ea9@msapiro>
	<176164b9c2a3e33b63938b77e281a015@siprelle.com>
Message-ID: <e608421df0337e6db366ca2c3d7c6554@onjapan.net>

On Mar 26, 2005, at 16:39, Lynn Siprelle wrote:

>>> This works:
>>> http://lsiprelle.simpli.biz/mailman/listinfo
>>>
>>> This doesn't:
>>> http://www.democracyfororegon.com/mailman/listinfo
>>>
>>> Same server, same mailman installation. The first one runs fine, the
>>> second one throws premature end of script headers.
>>
>>
>> What is your web server? What's in the VirtualHost (or whatever)
>> section of the web server config for the www.democracyfororegon.com
>> domain?

It looks like the second is a Drupal site, but the first isn't.  Do you 
have an overly aggressive Apache rewrite rule/RewriteBase in the 
.htaccess file for its installation that is affecting Mailman?  (If you 
rename .htaccess, does Mailman web access start working?)

-- 
Jim Tittsler     http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship  http://Starship.Python.net/crew/jwt/
Mailman IRC      irc://irc.freenode.net/#mailman



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Mar 26 11:59:32 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 11:59:32 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Moderator ability to manager users
In-Reply-To: <E1DF6cK-00057d-00@pop-a065c05.pas.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1DF6cK-00057d-00@pop-a065c05.pas.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <p06200724be6af0cfdb45@[10.0.1.3]>

At 3:26 AM -0500 2005-03-26, Don wrote:

>>	Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any alternatives to give you more
>>fine-grained control over who can do what.
>
>  Actually I was going to ask about the same thing.  Would be great if
>  there were a way to give 'line item control' to list owners based on
>  their 'track record' of credibility (brains?) over time.

	If this is important to you, then I would encourage you to go to 
the Mailman RFE page at SourceForge and file your request there.  The 
Mailman developers are not likely to create new options such as this 
unless there is demonstrated demand, and the RFE page is the best way 
to track that.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From dman at dman13.dyndns.org  Sat Mar 26 14:53:48 2005
From: dman at dman13.dyndns.org (Derrick Hudson)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 08:53:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: MTAs
In-Reply-To: <p0621023ebe6a15817020@[192.168.123.100]>
References: <52288.199.38.51.133.1111675305.squirrel@mail.atomicxterra.com>
	<424459F1.1080605@owbn.org>
	<p0621023ebe6a15817020@[192.168.123.100]>
Message-ID: <20050326135348.GA7273@dman13.dyndns.org>

On Fri, Mar 25, 2005 at 11:55:46AM -0800, Heather Madrone wrote:
[...]

| We were going with Debian,
| which then announced that it's dropping sparc support,

Hold up.  Debian hasn't announced any such thing.  Don't pay attention
to the rumors.  Some of the project's leadership *proposed* (notice
that it's just a proposal) and different way of supporting 11+
architectures and making releases manageable.

Even if the proposal is accepted, it doesn't say anything about
*dropping* any architectures.  Rather, it proposes that the less
popular arches be managed independent from the most popular ones.
Sparc would still be supported, as long as anyone cares to use it.

| so we've switched
| to OpenBSD.
| 
| The time has come to start seriously thinking about the MTA.

I recommend either postfix or exim.  I use postfix now, and it is
rather easy to setup, has good performance, and can be instructed not
to trash the machine its on while under heavy load.

| OpenBSD comes with sendmail, but I'm not going down that road again.
| I've heard good things about postfix, but I've never used it.

| It seems somewhat more complex to set up than exim,

postfix is simpler because all of the logic is built-in, you merely
fill in some tables.  I had quite a bit of experience with exim before
I started using postfix.  postfix has better rate- and resource-
limiting controls.

| and its integration with Mailman does not
| seem to be as seamless.

Its integration is nearly perfect -- see README.POSTFIX.  All you
really have to do is put an entry in $alias_maps (and one in
$virtual_alias_maps if mailman will serve virtual domains) and you're
set.

There is one hitch, depending on your setup, which is discussed here:

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2005-March/017979.html

Grr.  pipermail needs much better MIME support =p.  You'll have to
read the message from me from the mbox archives instead:
    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2005-March.txt
but it won't matter to you unless the domain you specify in $mydomain
is in $virtual_mailbox_domains.


I'll comment on a few items from other posts in this, since I happen to
have a bit of knowledge in this area:


Brad wrote:
> I've seen Exim's logs.  I was never able to make much of any sense
> out of them.  I've also seen postfix's logs, and they seem to me to
> be the model of readability and understandability.

As a former expert on exim, exim's logs are extremely informative, but
they're also quite terse.  You have to know how exim organizes things
before they'll make any sense, and then you have to know what the
single-character codes mean before you know what data you are seeing.
postfix logs everything very well.  Each step of the process is
logged, and isn't anywhere near as terse as exim's logs.  Both provide
adequate information to identify and correct any situations that will
arise.

Heather wrote:
>       * Ease of configuration and administration.

Brad wrote:
> Postfix is the only MTA on the planet that can have a truly useful
> two-line configuration file.  Moreover, it has the most intelligible
> configuration file that I have ever seen.  Better still, it comes up
> "default secure", unlike every other MTA I've ever seen.
>
> I've seen Exim configuration files, and it's hard to tell what goes
> where, what is a router versus all the other ways that certain
> things could be handled, etc...

exim is only semi-easy to configure and administer.  postfix is
easier.  exim's model requires you, the administrator, to put together
all the pieces needed for mail handling (access control, routing,
transports) and then it requires you to put the logic in place so that
the right components interact the way you want them to.  The biggest
drawback is the verbosity in the configuration file.  The second
biggest drawback is the trickiness in correctly setting all the
conditions to handle very unusual and strange situations.

I would say that exim is actually more flexible than postfix, since
the admin controls so much of the logic.  However, postfix is simpler
because Wietse already put all the logic in the code and the only
responsibility of the admin is to fill in the tables correctly.


Brad wrote:
> When looking at Exim and Mailman, there is a distinct issue that has
> to be kept in mind.  The instructions for integrating Mailman 2.0.x
> are oriented exclusively towards Exim 3.x, and the instructions for
> integrating Mailman 2.1.x are oriented exclusively towards Exim 4.x.
> If you've got Exim 3.x and you want to use Mailman 2.1.x, you're
> screwed.

John wrote:
> no one should be installing and running Exim 3 these days.

I agree -- exim 3 is extremely old, no longer maintained, and exim 4
greatly simplified the configuration.  I think it has been three or
four years, now, since exim 3 passed the torch on to exim 4, and I
can't think of any -good- reason to use it other than perhaps "if it
ain't broke, don't fix it" (but that includes not upgrading or
installing a new mailman on the exim3 server).


Heather wrote:
> With exim, trying to do VERP processing on the digest runs caused
> Mailman to flood exim, even when I turned the number of sessions and
> connections way down.  It also brought my poor Mac, which was not
> meant to be a server, to its knees.  I'm hoping that the sparc will
> be able to handle peak loads more gracefully than a Powerbook.

Have I got a story for you!  I'll try to keep it succint.  Basically I
moved from NY to IL for a co-op job a few years ago.  While I was
moving, my computer was offline and so I couldn't receive any mail.
Due to circumstances, I couldn't get a public IP for a total of about
4 days.  As an interim solution, I tried setting the router at my
parents' house as my backup MX.  That router is a 25MHz 486 that had
8MB RAM at the time.  The problem came when mail servers around the
world (ie lists.debian.org and others) noticed an accessible MX for my
domain.  The ensuing load literally killed the machine.  exim forked
too many processes causing extreme thrashing and the linux kernel's
OOM killer killed everything including init.  I couldn't do anything
until I went back to NY and even then only a hard reboot was possible
(no init -> no ctl-alt-del).

Fast-forward a couple years to another time I moved, and didn't have
any network for a week or two.  I again made that router my backup MX.
This time it was running postfix, and I told postfix to accept at most
2 simultaneous smtp connections.  During that time the machine had no
problems, and I was even able to read my mail remotely while I was at
a conference (albeit slowly).

The difference is this:  exim is wholly decentralized, and so it
didn't even know it was trashing the machine.  It does have a
load-based limiter, however the problem on that router wasn't load
(cpu), it was memory.  postfix has a central "master" process that
oversees all the other processes.  With this mechanism it is capable
of limiting each component, such as incoming connections or the
various deliveries.  For example, I now limit both the junk-scanning
and local deliveries to 2 (each) simultaneous processes.  This
prevents bogging down the CPU when the network is restored after being
down for a time (eg a few hours or a day).  I just let the messages
sit on the queue a bit longer, which isn't a problem since the machine
remains usable (it's my desktop/workstation too).


Heather wrote:
> How would you rate Postfix's efficiency?  Is it fast?

Rather outdated now, but here is an empirical comparison:

    http://www.dt.e-technik.uni-dortmund.de/~ma/postfix/vsqmail.html
    http://www.dt.e-technik.uni-dortmund.de/~ma/postfix/bench2.html

> Does it limit network traffic to the necessary and keep its disk
> reads and writes down to a dull roar?

See the above narrative on how a woefully underpowered machine fared
when bombarded with mail running exim vs. postfix.  (actually, that
was precisely the reason I started using postfix -- because it was
better suited on that machine _as a server_; then I learned how much
easier it is to use and have stuck with it)

My preference of MTAs is postfix, but exim is a good second choice,
IMO.  Also, both Phil and Wietse (the authors) are quite respectable
-- they help users while providing quality software and addressing
real concerns.

HTH,
-D

-- 
"...the word HACK is used as a verb to indicate a massive amount
of nerd-like effort."  -Harley Hahn, A Student's Guide to Unix
 
www: http://dman13.dyndns.org/~dman/            jabber: dman at dman13.dyndns.org
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From dman at dman13.dyndns.org  Sat Mar 26 14:56:48 2005
From: dman at dman13.dyndns.org (Derrick Hudson)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 08:56:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: MTAs
In-Reply-To: <BE6A099E.3A0F%jwblist@olympus.net>
References: <p0620071fbe6a66696b43@[10.0.1.3]>
	<BE6A099E.3A0F%jwblist@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <20050326135648.GB7273@dman13.dyndns.org>

On Fri, Mar 25, 2005 at 06:31:58PM -0800, John W. Baxter wrote:
| On 3/25/2005 17:12, "Brad Knowles" <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote:
| 
| > This whole Exim 3/Exim 4 thing is not a problem with postfix.
| > Don't get me wrong, postfix isn't perfect.  But what flaws it has
| > tend to be less visible than this, and the issue of upgrading from
| > one version to another usually has more to do with whether or not a
| > binary package with the new version has yet been prepared, or whether
| > they're willing to take the risk of going straight to the original
| > source.
| 
| Philip is very conscious of backwards compatibility, and very consciously
| broke it in the Exim 3 to Exim 4 transition, because the old configuration
| system and the old way of managing messages had been outgrown by reality.

Indeed.  Don't think of exim3->exim4 as a version upgrade, but rather
replacing a worn-out tool with a fresh one.  Kind of like the zope2 ->
zope3 change, if you're familiar with the zope world.  Or, perhaps,
compare it to Win3.1->Win95 or Win9x->NT/2k/XP.  Same basic
concepts, but new implementation and configuration.

-D

-- 
A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in.
  --Kim Alm, a.s.r
 
www: http://dman13.dyndns.org/~dman/            jabber: dman at dman13.dyndns.org
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From jwblist at olympus.net  Sat Mar 26 16:10:06 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 07:10:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: MTAs
In-Reply-To: <20050326135348.GA7273@dman13.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <BE6ABB4E.3A4D%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 3/26/2005 5:53, "Derrick Hudson" <dman at dman13.dyndns.org> wrote:

> Fast-forward a couple years to another time I moved, and didn't have
> any network for a week or two.  I again made that router my backup MX.
> This time it was running postfix, and I told postfix to accept at most
> 2 simultaneous smtp connections.  During that time the machine had no
> problems, and I was even able to read my mail remotely while I was at
> a conference (albeit slowly).

You could have told Exim to do that (Exim 2 or 3 or 4...I don't remember
Exim 1 well enough to say...we didn't use it long).  I don't think it can
limit the number of things injected via command line calls to
"sendmail"...but that wasn't the problem (Mailman can make it the problem).

Thank you very much for jumping in.  It was very useful to hear from someone
with solid knowledge of both Postfix and Exim.

  --John



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar 26 16:54:49 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 07:54:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Moderator ability to manager users
In-Reply-To: <p06200724be6af0cfdb45@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <PC174520050326075449062555f11c22@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 3:26 AM -0500 2005-03-26, Don wrote:
>
>>>	Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any alternatives to give you more
>>>fine-grained control over who can do what.
>>
>>  Actually I was going to ask about the same thing.  Would be great if
>>  there were a way to give 'line item control' to list owners based on
>>  their 'track record' of credibility (brains?) over time.
>
>	If this is important to you, then I would encourage you to go to 
>the Mailman RFE page at SourceForge and file your request there.  The 
>Mailman developers are not likely to create new options such as this 
>unless there is demonstrated demand, and the RFE page is the best way 
>to track that.

There is a patch at
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1164457&group_id=103&atid=300103
that allows "line item" selection of which options are available on a
site wide basis. I haven't really looked at this, but it might not be
difficult to modify it for "per-list" rather than "site wide".

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lynn at siprelle.com  Sat Mar 26 18:16:00 2005
From: lynn at siprelle.com (Lynn Siprelle)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 09:16:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help! mailman not working with virtual servers
In-Reply-To: <e608421df0337e6db366ca2c3d7c6554@onjapan.net>
References: <PC17452005032520294100000a4c3ea9@msapiro>
	<176164b9c2a3e33b63938b77e281a015@siprelle.com>
	<e608421df0337e6db366ca2c3d7c6554@onjapan.net>
Message-ID: <6348185fab744f5345c44455239cdff4@siprelle.com>

> It looks like the second is a Drupal site, but the first isn't.  Do 
> you have an overly aggressive Apache rewrite rule/RewriteBase in the 
> .htaccess file for its installation that is affecting Mailman?  (If 
> you rename .htaccess, does Mailman web access start working?)

I don't doubt you, and I will try it, but why would it work on one 
machine and not another, both using Apache?

Lynn

------
Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky
http://www.siprelle.com * http://www.thenewhomemaker.com
http://www.democracyfororegon.com * http://www.knitting911.net



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Mar 26 18:49:24 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 09:49:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help! mailman not working with virtual servers
In-Reply-To: <8e503109976b19ae408b17a6eaa25f89@siprelle.com>
Message-ID: <PC17452005032609492400939423fa35@msapiro>

Lynn Siprelle wrote:

>I should also have added that I'm using the current beta.

Actually, the current is 2.1.6b5 at
http://mm.tkikuchi.net/mailman-2.1.6b5.tgz

>>> What is your web server? What's in the VirtualHost (or whatever)
>>> section of the web server config for the www.democracyfororegon.com
>>> domain?
>>
>> Apache 1.3.33
>>
>> <VirtualHost 208.185.251.142:80>
>> ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
>>
<snip>
>>
>> 	User admin
>> 	Group admin

Is this the group expected by the wrapper?


<snip>
>>
>> </VirtualHost>

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lynn at siprelle.com  Sat Mar 26 19:19:17 2005
From: lynn at siprelle.com (Lynn Siprelle)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 10:19:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help! mailman not working with virtual servers
In-Reply-To: <PC17452005032609492400939423fa35@msapiro>
References: <PC17452005032609492400939423fa35@msapiro>
Message-ID: <e6693dfd24c8316fc72c49716832f7b2@siprelle.com>

>> I should also have added that I'm using the current beta.
>
> Actually, the current is 2.1.6b5 at
> http://mm.tkikuchi.net/mailman-2.1.6b5.tgz

Ah, ok.

>>> 	User admin
>>> 	Group admin
>
> Is this the group expected by the wrapper?

To my knowledge. I'll see.

L

------
Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky
http://www.siprelle.com * http://www.thenewhomemaker.com
http://www.democracyfororegon.com * http://www.knitting911.net



From lynn at siprelle.com  Sat Mar 26 19:21:50 2005
From: lynn at siprelle.com (Lynn Siprelle)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 10:21:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help! mailman not working with virtual servers
In-Reply-To: <PC17452005032609492400939423fa35@msapiro>
References: <PC17452005032609492400939423fa35@msapiro>
Message-ID: <013c3a0b0148eafbb11fd0952465df76@siprelle.com>

>>> 	User admin
>>> 	Group admin
>
> Is this the group expected by the wrapper?

This may be it, because turning off my htaccess file didn't do the 
trick.

Lynn

------
Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky
http://www.siprelle.com * http://www.thenewhomemaker.com
http://www.democracyfororegon.com * http://www.knitting911.net



From lynn at siprelle.com  Sat Mar 26 20:11:46 2005
From: lynn at siprelle.com (Lynn Siprelle)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 11:11:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help! mailman not working with virtual servers
In-Reply-To: <013c3a0b0148eafbb11fd0952465df76@siprelle.com>
References: <PC17452005032609492400939423fa35@msapiro>
	<013c3a0b0148eafbb11fd0952465df76@siprelle.com>
Message-ID: <4591f5f4f448b3ff2588ffdc88d3c8c1@siprelle.com>

Despair! I can't get it to work. I recompiled making sure that this was  
the group expected by the wrapper and still no dice.

On Mar 26, 2005, at 10:21 AM, Lynn Siprelle wrote:

>>>> 	User admin
>>>> 	Group admin
>>
>> Is this the group expected by the wrapper?
>
> This may be it, because turning off my htaccess file didn't do the  
> trick.
>
> Lynn
>
> ------
> Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky
> http://www.siprelle.com * http://www.thenewhomemaker.com
> http://www.democracyfororegon.com * http://www.knitting911.net
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:  
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:  
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ 
> lynn%40siprelle.com
>
> Security Policy:  
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp; 
> file=faq01.027.htp
>
>
------
Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky
http://www.siprelle.com * http://www.thenewhomemaker.com
http://www.democracyfororegon.com * http://www.knitting911.net



From avn at arunas.org  Sat Mar 26 20:59:23 2005
From: avn at arunas.org (Aras)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 21:59:23 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM within virtual hosting environment
Message-ID: <1916252341.20050326215923@artefacted.com>

 Hello,

 I know this kind of questions were posted here quite often (yes, I've
done my homework <grin>). I have searched FAQ and archives, however,
haven't found anything similar to my problem. The closest was FAQ
answer: 4.47. Virtual domain hosting with Mailman? - not for me,
however...      :(

 I started a mailing list within virtual VPS environment with several
domains hosted. Now, a strange thing is happening. Mailing list
headers are showing something like the following:

quote
=====

List-Unsubscribe:
<http://lists.DOMAIN-1.com/mailman/listinfo/list-name>,
        <mailto:list-name-request at DOMAIN-1.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.DOMAIN-2.COM/pipermail/list-name>
List-Post: <mailto:list-name at DOMAIN-1.com>

unquote
=======

 Please note TWO domain names involved here. Why is that and how this
could be avoided i.e. - how to change DOMAIN-2 to DOMAIN-1 in the
headers?

 Thank you!

 Aras.



From heather at madrone.com  Sat Mar 26 21:18:55 2005
From: heather at madrone.com (Heather Madrone)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 12:18:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: MTAs
In-Reply-To: <20050326135348.GA7273@dman13.dyndns.org>
References: <52288.199.38.51.133.1111675305.squirrel@mail.atomicxterra.com>
	<424459F1.1080605@owbn.org>	<p0621023ebe6a15817020@[192.168.123.100]>
	<20050326135348.GA7273@dman13.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <p06210249be6b517c7f0d@[192.168.123.100]>

Thank you so much, Derrick.  This is exactly the sort of information
I was looking for.  Of particular interest was the discussion of exim's
and postfix's configuration, the performance benchmarks, and your
story of running the two MTAs through an underpowered router.

At 8:53 AM -0500 3/26/05, Derrick Hudson wrote:
>On Fri, Mar 25, 2005 at 11:55:46AM -0800, Heather Madrone wrote:
>[...]
>
>| We were going with Debian,
>| which then announced that it's dropping sparc support,
>
>Hold up.  Debian hasn't announced any such thing.  Don't pay attention
>to the rumors.  Some of the project's leadership *proposed* (notice
>that it's just a proposal) and different way of supporting 11+
>architectures and making releases manageable.

You're right.  I was trying to gloss over the details of a long search for
an adequate OS.  Suffice to say that the linuces have been dropping sparc
support left and right, and it looked like Debian might follow suit. 

>exim is only semi-easy to configure and administer.  postfix is
>easier.  exim's model requires you, the administrator, to put together
>all the pieces needed for mail handling (access control, routing,
>transports) and then it requires you to put the logic in place so that
>the right components interact the way you want them to.  The biggest
>drawback is the verbosity in the configuration file.  The second
>biggest drawback is the trickiness in correctly setting all the
>conditions to handle very unusual and strange situations.

Yes, this is true.  It took me a few weeks to fine-tune exim so that it
correctly handled all the usual occurrences in my mail world.

It's pretty easy to configure if you can read and think, however, something
that has not always been true in the Unix world.  I had it up and running
and working with Mailman in a few hours, and was marveling at how
smoothly it all went.

>I would say that exim is actually more flexible than postfix, since
>the admin controls so much of the logic.  However, postfix is simpler
>because Wietse already put all the logic in the code and the only
>responsibility of the admin is to fill in the tables correctly.

Are there any configuration options in exim that you miss (or missed)
in Postfix?  I like the ability to control retries, because I don't want more
network traffic than I need to keep my lists running smoothly.  Have you
ever wished for more control in that area, or does Postfix handle it all
so intelligently that you're glad to have it use its brain instead of yours?

>I agree -- exim 3 is extremely old, no longer maintained, and exim 4
>greatly simplified the configuration.  I think it has been three or
>four years, now, since exim 3 passed the torch on to exim 4, and I
>can't think of any -good- reason to use it other than perhaps "if it
>ain't broke, don't fix it" (but that includes not upgrading or
>installing a new mailman on the exim3 server).

One of my concerns with Debian is that Python programs tend to be
closely coupled with Python versions.  I was concerned that I might
be in a position where I'd be stuck in a version of Debian that wouldn't
work with a new version of Python (and hence Mailman).

>Heather wrote:
>> With exim, trying to do VERP processing on the digest runs caused
>> Mailman to flood exim, even when I turned the number of sessions and
>> connections way down.  It also brought my poor Mac, which was not
>> meant to be a server, to its knees.  I'm hoping that the sparc will
>> be able to handle peak loads more gracefully than a Powerbook.

(To be fair to the Powerbook, I was also asking it to be a laptop at the
time.  It could not handle heavy-duty web browsing at the same time
it was handling peak Mailman loads.  Moving VERP from Mailman
to exim and setting up a caching name server solved the problem.)

-- 
Heather Madrone  (heather at madrone.com)  http://www.madrone.com

A rolling stone gathers no mass.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Mar 26 21:25:27 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 21:25:27 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: MTAs
In-Reply-To: <p06210249be6b517c7f0d@[192.168.123.100]>
References: <52288.199.38.51.133.1111675305.squirrel@mail.atomicxterra.com>
	<424459F1.1080605@owbn.org>
	<p0621023ebe6a15817020@[192.168.123.100]>
	<20050326135348.GA7273@dman13.dyndns.org>
	<p06210249be6b517c7f0d@[192.168.123.100]>
Message-ID: <p0620072ebe6b7562ee17@[10.0.1.3]>

At 12:18 PM -0800 2005-03-26, Heather Madrone wrote:

>  One of my concerns with Debian is that Python programs tend to be
>  closely coupled with Python versions.  I was concerned that I might
>  be in a position where I'd be stuck in a version of Debian that wouldn't
>  work with a new version of Python (and hence Mailman).

	If you need to keep an old version of Python on the system, you 
can always install a newer version somewhere else, and configure 
Mailman to use that instead of the normal one.  That shouldn't be too 
much work.

>  (To be fair to the Powerbook, I was also asking it to be a laptop at the
>  time.  It could not handle heavy-duty web browsing at the same time
>  it was handling peak Mailman loads.  Moving VERP from Mailman
>  to exim and setting up a caching name server solved the problem.)

/me wonders how much of the performance difference was due to letting 
Exim handle the VERP as opposed to setting up a caching nameserver.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From heather at madrone.com  Sat Mar 26 22:15:01 2005
From: heather at madrone.com (Heather Madrone)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:15:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: MTAs
In-Reply-To: <p0620072ebe6b7562ee17@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <52288.199.38.51.133.1111675305.squirrel@mail.atomicxterra.com>
	<424459F1.1080605@owbn.org> <p0621023ebe6a15817020@[192.168.123.100]>
	<20050326135348.GA7273@dman13.dyndns.org>
	<p06210249be6b517c7f0d@[192.168.123.100]>
	<p0620072ebe6b7562ee17@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <p0621024fbe6b7a6d1794@[192.168.123.100]>

...dropping the OS issue, which is not on-topic for this list.

At 9:25 PM +0100 3/26/05, Brad Knowles wrote:
>> (To be fair to the Powerbook, I was also asking it to be a laptop at the
>> time.  It could not handle heavy-duty web browsing at the same time
>> it was handling peak Mailman loads.  Moving VERP from Mailman
>> to exim and setting up a caching name server solved the problem.)
>
>/me wonders how much of the performance difference was due to
>letting Exim handle the VERP as opposed to setting up a caching
>nameserver.

You're right that that caching nameserver made the biggest difference
in terms of increasing network throughput (and decreasing timeouts).
That was probably 2/3 of the performance right there, and it came off
all delivery times, whether the system was busy or not.

In terms of getting the mail into the users' mailboxes, having exim do
the VERP processing decreased the elapsed time for digest deliveries
from a mean of 60 minutes to a mean of 15 minutes.  Mailman had
to make many more connections to exim, and exim was unable to
batch deliveries to the same host as efficiently as it can do when it does
its own VERP processing.  Turnaround on normal list deliveries was
improved also, but not as dramatically.

Exim could certainly be smarter about batching deliveries to the same
host.  It only seems to try for messages that come in on the same queue
run, so it was better to have Mailman send all its digest runs in one
lump sum (more or less) and then have exim churn through them than
to have Mailman dole them out and exim handle them inefficiently.

When I was having Mailman do its own VERP, I'd see exim do VERP
checks repeatedly on the same address.  When exim is doing the VERP,
it still does some of this, but much less.

-- 
Heather Madrone  (heather at madrone.com)  http://www.madrone.com

A rolling stone gathers no mass.


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Mar 27 00:41:48 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 15:41:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM within virtual hosting environment
In-Reply-To: <1916252341.20050326215923@artefacted.com>
Message-ID: <PC1745200503261541480046fbb6869e@msapiro>

Aras wrote:
>
> I know this kind of questions were posted here quite often (yes, I've
>done my homework <grin>). I have searched FAQ and archives, however,
>haven't found anything similar to my problem. The closest was FAQ
>answer: 4.47. Virtual domain hosting with Mailman? - not for me,
>however...      :(


Actually, I think FAQ 4.29 may be the most relevant.


> I started a mailing list within virtual VPS environment with several
>domains hosted. Now, a strange thing is happening. Mailing list
>headers are showing something like the following:
>
>quote
>=====
>
>List-Unsubscribe:
><http://lists.DOMAIN-1.com/mailman/listinfo/list-name>,
>        <mailto:list-name-request at DOMAIN-1.com?subject=unsubscribe>
>List-Archive: <http://lists.DOMAIN-2.COM/pipermail/list-name>
>List-Post: <mailto:list-name at DOMAIN-1.com>
>
>unquote
>=======
>
> Please note TWO domain names involved here. Why is that and how this
>could be avoided i.e. - how to change DOMAIN-2 to DOMAIN-1 in the
>headers?

The first step is to make sure your VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary is
correct. It is built with add_virtualhost() calls in mm_cfg.py

The basic stuff that's needed in mm_cfg.py is if there are no changes
to DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST (i.e. the definitions in
Defaults.py are correct), then what you need in mm_cfg.py is

add_virtualhost(URL_FQDN, EMAIL_FQDN)

for each domain other than the defaults. If DEFAULT_URL_HOST and/or
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST are reassigned in mm_cfg.py then following those
assignments you need

VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

and

add_virtualhost(URL_FQDN, EMAIL_FQDN)

for each domain other than the defaults.

Other considerations are DEFAULT_URL_HOST and the various URL_FDQN must
all be distinct. if not, earlier add_virtualhost() entries will be
replaced by the last one with the same URL_FQDN key. Also, the
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and the various EMAIL_FQDN should all be distinct
as well because there are several places where the dictionary gets
inverted and the EMAIL_FQDN is used to look up the URL_FQDN.

Given all that, the domain in the

List-Archive: <http://lists.DOMAIN-2.COM/pipermail/list-name>

header is looked up in the inverted dictionary using the list's
host_name attribute which in turn is the domain in the

List-Post: <mailto:list-name at DOMAIN-1.com>

Therefore, you must have either a VIRTUAL_HOSTS entry of the form

add_virtualhost('lists.DOMAIN-2.COM', 'DOMAIN-1.com')

or no VIRTUAL_HOSTS entry at all with EMAIL_FQDN = 'DOMAIN-1.com', and
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.DOMAIN-2.COM'.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Mar 27 08:03:31 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 22:03:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help! mailman not working with virtual servers
In-Reply-To: <4591f5f4f448b3ff2588ffdc88d3c8c1@siprelle.com>
Message-ID: <PC1745200503262203310171241c2cca@msapiro>

Lynn Siprelle wrote:

>Despair! I can't get it to work. I recompiled making sure that this was  
>the group expected by the wrapper and still no dice.

I'm out of ideas and down to grasping at straws. I noticed in your post
of the VirtualHost section of your Apache config, the first
ScriptAlias was not indented like the rest of the section.


<VirtualHost 208.185.251.142:80>
ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/

	ServerName www.democracyfororegon.com
	ServerAlias www.democracyfororegon.com democracyfororegon.com


I know it's not Python so indentation shouldn't matter ;-), but I
wonder if the "ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/" is
really on a separate line from "<VirtualHost 208.185.251.142:80>" or
if there's really just a bunch of white space there that makes it
"fold" onto the next line when displayed.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From robert at cataloniahosting.com  Sun Mar 27 10:25:36 2005
From: robert at cataloniahosting.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Robert_Garrig=F3s?=)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 10:25:36 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] po editors for mac
Message-ID: <42466E00.4010608@cataloniahosting.com>

Does any one know of any .po editor for macosx already compilated? I 
don't know of any and am not used to compilate for macosx.

Thanks

-- 
Robert Garrigos
Mon Classic Musical sl.
Assessorament i execucio de projectes d'internet
www.monclassic.com
www.cataloniahosting.com
685 972 934



From jwt at OnJapan.net  Sun Mar 27 13:41:23 2005
From: jwt at OnJapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 20:41:23 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help! mailman not working with virtual servers
In-Reply-To: <6348185fab744f5345c44455239cdff4@siprelle.com>
References: <PC17452005032520294100000a4c3ea9@msapiro>
	<176164b9c2a3e33b63938b77e281a015@siprelle.com>
	<e608421df0337e6db366ca2c3d7c6554@onjapan.net>
	<6348185fab744f5345c44455239cdff4@siprelle.com>
Message-ID: <20050327114123.GB6505@server.onjapan.net>

On Sat, Mar 26, 2005 at 09:16:00AM -0800, Lynn Siprelle wrote:
> I don't doubt you, and I will try it, but why would it work on one 
> machine and not another, both using Apache?

Do *any* CGI scripts work on the second machine?  (Is mod_cgi
being loaded/enabled?)

No clues at all in the Apache error logs?

-- 
Jim Tittsler     http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship  http://Starship.Python.net/crew/jwt/
Mailman IRC      irc://irc.freenode.net/#mailman


From lauren at vortex.com  Sun Mar 27 20:39:24 2005
From: lauren at vortex.com (Lauren Weinstein)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 10:39:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] member names vs. us-ascii/iso-8859-1
Message-ID: <200503271839.j2RIdNBe027060@chrome.vortex.com>

Greetings.  I was recently stung by the situation where somebody
apparently subscribed to my us-ascii configured system with an
extended Latin-1 char in their "real name" (probably via e-mail,
though I'm not certain).  This resulted in mail distributions failing
and being shunted upon hitting that name due to an "out of range"
error. 

I cured this quickly by switching the mailman definition
over to iso-8859-1 to get the mail out, but this has side-effects
I'd prefer not to have continue (including ordinary ascii Subject
lines being iso-encoded unnecessarily).

Is there a simple change I can make to simply prevent the member
name(s) in question from shunting the entire distribution?
I've been looking over the code but I don't know it well enough
to be sure that I won't cause unintended side-effects.  

Thanks much.

--Lauren--



From jrc at rodricon.com  Mon Mar 28 16:36:17 2005
From: jrc at rodricon.com (J.R. Constance)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 07:36:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderated group.
Message-ID: <p06210201be6d0802722c@[192.168.0.2]>

Is there any way to set up a list so that every message to the list, 
whether from members or non-members, has to be approved by the 
moderator prior to being sent out to the list? I thought I had this 
working with my list but right now when someone sends a message to 
the list it just seems to disappear. The admins get no notice that 
there is a message waiting for approval, and nothing shows up in the 
queue to be approved.

J.R.


From jfl1 at duke.edu  Sun Mar 27 22:15:14 2005
From: jfl1 at duke.edu (jfl1 at duke.edu)
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 15:15:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] not receiving messages to lists
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0503271446590.16347@hudson5.acpub.duke.edu>

Hello,

I'm no expert at Mailman, which obviously explains my current stuggles
and need for assistance.

I'm running the following...
Mailman 2.1.5
Sendmail 8.12.8-9
Apache 2.0.40
Red Hat Linux 3.2.2-5

These were installed via rpm.

I've checked through the Mailman FAQ on the Mailman site and also looked
through the Mailman FAQ on the python.org site and haven't found anything
to get me any further in solving the problems I'm encountering.

At the moment I am able to create lists and messages from the list are
successfully sent out to list-owner or list members.  What I am unable to
do is send messages from a remote account to the list.  I send messages to
the list and after some time receive bounces to my remote account
indicating that the connection was refused by the address I was attempting
to send to.

A few other items...
I've checked the MTA logs at /var/log/maillog and am not receiving any
information in this file indicating that the messages sent from a remote
host ever interacted with my local box running Mailman.

Any assistance is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Jason



From paris at pariswells.com  Mon Mar 28 05:38:06 2005
From: paris at pariswells.com (Paris Wells)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 04:38:06 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem With hotmail!
Message-ID: <001d01c53347$8f67b440$0300a8c0@parisdesktop>

Hi , im trying to set up a list at the moment and i have some problems!

1) Any email i send using the mailing list goes straight into the junk mail folder of hotmail , however fine with spam assasin using my domain email

2) It leaves a signature on every email it sends and cant find in the options out how to remove this

Eg this :
_______________________________________________
Members mailing list
Members at domain.com
http://domain.com/mailman/listinfo/members_domain.com

3) In outlook express it makes it look like the email has an attachment when it doesnt

Thanks For Your help

Paris Wells

From tyoggev at 013.net  Mon Mar 28 10:35:25 2005
From: tyoggev at 013.net (Tamara Yoggev)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 10:35:25 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wierd Problem creating list
Message-ID: <015501c53371$16ffc8b0$310aa8c0@aish2.local>

Hi all,

I've just installed mailman on a Linux machine with postfix. I'm having the following problems, which may be related, I just can't figure out.

1) I went through all the install steps, created a site mailing list (mailman), and a few other mailing lists (tamara, tests, whatever).
I DO get the notification email from mailman-owner, the lists DO appear in the /usr/local/mailman/lists folder but when I go to the link:
  http://www.aishlist.com/mailman/admin/tamara I get "No such list tamara"

2) when I try to create a list via the web interface, I get 
Error: You are not authorized to create new mailing lists
, I AM using the list creator password which I created. (besides that I can create a list via the command line 
as I've stated above)

Does anyone have any idea what could be wrong?

Thanks a lot,
Tamara


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Mar 28 17:53:30 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 16:53:30 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] not receiving messages to lists
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0503271446590.16347@hudson5.acpub.duke.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0503271446590.16347@hudson5.acpub.duke.edu>
Message-ID: <p06200746be6dd81fc756@[10.0.1.3]>

At 3:15 PM -0500 2005-03-27, jfl1 at duke.edu wrote:

>  At the moment I am able to create lists and messages from the list are
>  successfully sent out to list-owner or list members.  What I am unable to
>  do is send messages from a remote account to the list.  I send messages to
>  the list and after some time receive bounces to my remote account
>  indicating that the connection was refused by the address I was attempting
>  to send to.

	Sounds to me like your mail server is not accepting incoming 
connections, or there might be a firewall blocking incoming 
connections.

>  A few other items...
>  I've checked the MTA logs at /var/log/maillog and am not receiving any
>  information in this file indicating that the messages sent from a remote
>  host ever interacted with my local box running Mailman.

	Yup.  It's either not listening (or at least not listening to the 
right address), or it's being blocked somewhere.

	However, debugging this part of the problem is going to be 
specific to your OS (and how it handles host-level firewalling), your 
network connection device (are you behind some sort of NAT/router 
which is effectively firewalling incoming connections), your MTA 
(maybe it's not configured to listen to the right address or 
addresses), and your service provider (maybe they block all incoming 
port 25 connections).

	There's nothing Mailman-specific here.  We're not really likely 
to be able to provide you much more help.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Mar 28 18:01:58 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 17:01:58 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem With hotmail!
In-Reply-To: <001d01c53347$8f67b440$0300a8c0@parisdesktop>
References: <001d01c53347$8f67b440$0300a8c0@parisdesktop>
Message-ID: <p06200747be6dd91400b2@[10.0.1.3]>

At 4:38 AM +0100 2005-03-28, Paris Wells wrote:

>  1) Any email i send using the mailing list goes straight into the junk
>  mail folder of hotmail , however fine with spam assasin using my domain
>  email

	See 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.042.htp>. 
This applies to hotmail, yahoo, gmail, and all the other large 
providers, and not just AOL.

>  2) It leaves a signature on every email it sends and cant find in the
>  options out how to remove this

	See <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp>.

>  3) In outlook express it makes it look like the email has an attachment
>  when it doesnt

	See above.


	In general, any time you are having problems with Mailman, it's a 
good idea to go to the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> and search for key words 
relating to your problems.  You can also see the entire index of all 
FAQ entries at <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=index>, 
and I would encourage you to read through each and every one of these 
items.

	Even if you don't remember every aspect of every FAQ entry, 
hopefully some things will stick in the back of your mind and if you 
have a problem in the future, you'll have a better chance of 
remembering where in the FAQ this question was answered.

	You should also search the archives of the mailman-users mailing 
list, according to the instructions at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.018.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Mar 28 18:04:46 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 17:04:46 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderated group.
In-Reply-To: <p06210201be6d0802722c@[192.168.0.2]>
References: <p06210201be6d0802722c@[192.168.0.2]>
Message-ID: <p06200749be6ddb4b859e@[10.0.1.3]>

At 7:36 AM -0700 2005-03-28, J.R. Constance wrote:

>  Is there any way to set up a list so that every message to the list,
>  whether from members or non-members, has to be approved by the moderator
>  prior to being sent out to the list?

	Turn on default moderation when creating the list.  You may also 
need to go through and set everyone's moderate bit, if they're 
already subscribed to the list.

	If this isn't working for you, take a look at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Mar 28 18:03:08 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 17:03:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wierd Problem creating list
In-Reply-To: <015501c53371$16ffc8b0$310aa8c0@aish2.local>
References: <015501c53371$16ffc8b0$310aa8c0@aish2.local>
Message-ID: <p06200748be6ddb0e775c@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:35 AM +0200 2005-03-28, Tamara Yoggev wrote:

>  I DO get the notification email from mailman-owner, the lists DO appear
>  in the /usr/local/mailman/lists folder but when I go to the link:
>  http://www.aishlist.com/mailman/admin/tamara I get "No such list tamara"

	Hmm.  I wonder if maybe this is the "redirect" problem.  See 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From Matthew.Marshall at noaa.gov  Mon Mar 28 18:02:32 2005
From: Matthew.Marshall at noaa.gov (Matthew A. Marshall)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:02:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to subscribe.
Message-ID: <42482A98.30800@noaa.gov>

Hello, I'm running mailman v2.1.5.  When I attempt to subscribe to a 
list via the web gui.  I receive the email I need to confirm.  I reply 
to the email.  The email is received by my mailman server.  I see it in 
the maillog.   However, after that nothing happens.  I am not added to 
the list nor a message stating that I have sucessfully subscribed.  Has 
anyone else had this problem?

Thanks,
--Matt


From stolarski at hood.edu  Mon Mar 28 18:26:10 2005
From: stolarski at hood.edu (Steven Stolarski)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:26:10 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outgoing SMTP connection
Message-ID: <auto-000006222916@hermes.hood.edu>

Hello All,

  I have inherited a mail system that has a mailman 2.1.5 server using
'SMTPDirect' as the Delivery Module to our primary mail server.  I'm
interested in limiting the rate at which this system sends mail (due to
limited configuration options on the incoming mail server).  From what I can
tell there use to be a very specific option to do just this, limit outgoing
smtp connections but that seems to have been removed by 2.1.5.  Is there
anyway to accomplish this in my version?  Thanks in advance for any help.

 

Green McNewbie     



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Mar 28 19:31:59 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 18:31:59 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to subscribe.
In-Reply-To: <42482A98.30800@noaa.gov>
References: <42482A98.30800@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <p0620074bbe6deff55d7e@[10.0.1.3]>

At 11:02 AM -0500 2005-03-28, Matthew A. Marshall wrote:

>  Hello, I'm running mailman v2.1.5.  When I attempt to subscribe to a
>  list via the web gui.  I receive the email I need to confirm.  I reply
>  to the email.  The email is received by my mailman server.  I see it
>  in the maillog.   However, after that nothing happens.  I am not added
>  to the list nor a message stating that I have sucessfully subscribed.
>  Has anyone else had this problem?

	This could be the "redirect" problem.  See 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Mar 28 19:37:11 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 18:37:11 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outgoing SMTP connection
In-Reply-To: <auto-000006222916@hermes.hood.edu>
References: <auto-000006222916@hermes.hood.edu>
Message-ID: <p0620074dbe6df1079d9d@[10.0.1.3]>

At 11:26 AM -0500 2005-03-28, Steven Stolarski wrote:

>    I have inherited a mail system that has a mailman 2.1.5 server using
>  'SMTPDirect' as the Delivery Module to our primary mail server.  I'm
>  interested in limiting the rate at which this system sends mail (due to
>  limited configuration options on the incoming mail server).

	If you want to do this, you need to make this change to your MTA. 
See 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.051.htp>.

>                                                               From what I can
>  tell there use to be a very specific option to do just this, limit outgoing
>  smtp connections but that seems to have been removed by 2.1.5.

	Mailman has never had this option.

>                                                                  Is there
>  anyway to accomplish this in my version?

	Not within Mailman, no.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 28 18:51:12 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 08:51:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderated group.
In-Reply-To: <p06210201be6d0802722c@[192.168.0.2]>
Message-ID: <PC17452005032808511200198470d23f@msapiro>

J.R. Constance wrote:

>I thought I had this 
>working with my list but right now when someone sends a message to 
>the list it just seems to disappear. The admins get no notice that 
>there is a message waiting for approval, and nothing shows up in the 
>queue to be approved.


It seems you may have set member_moderation_action to Discard instead
of Hold.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jrc at rodricon.com  Mon Mar 28 18:55:17 2005
From: jrc at rodricon.com (J.R. Constance)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 08:55:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderated group.
In-Reply-To: 6667
Message-ID: <20050328165517.56524.qmail@web14123.mail.yahoo.com>

I'll check those settings. Thanks.

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:J.R. Constance wrote:

>I thought I had this 
>working with my list but right now when someone sends a message to 
>the list it just seems to disappear. The admins get no notice that 
>there is a message waiting for approval, and nothing shows up in the 
>queue to be approved.


It seems you may have set member_moderation_action to Discard instead
of Hold.

--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan







From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 28 19:32:42 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 09:32:42 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wierd Problem creating list
In-Reply-To: <015501c53371$16ffc8b0$310aa8c0@aish2.local>
Message-ID: <PC17452005032809324208321802374a@msapiro>

Tamara Yoggev wrote:
>
>1) I went through all the install steps, created a site mailing list (mailman), and a few other mailing lists (tamara, tests, whatever).
>I DO get the notification email from mailman-owner, the lists DO appear in the /usr/local/mailman/lists folder but when I go to the link:
>  http://www.aishlist.com/mailman/admin/tamara I get "No such list tamara"


You now have at least two error tracebacks in your mailman 'error' log
as a result of my attempts to go to
http://www.aishlist.com/mailman/admin/tamara and
http://www.aishlist.com/mailman/admin/

What do they say?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 28 19:47:53 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 09:47:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to subscribe.
In-Reply-To: <42482A98.30800@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1745200503280947530910229019a3@msapiro>

Matthew A. Marshall wrote:

>Hello, I'm running mailman v2.1.5.  When I attempt to subscribe to a 
>list via the web gui.  I receive the email I need to confirm.  I reply 
>to the email.  The email is received by my mailman server.  I see it in 
>the maillog.   However, after that nothing happens.  I am not added to 
>the list nor a message stating that I have sucessfully subscribed.  Has 
>anyone else had this problem?

The e-mail has a subject of the form

Subject: confirm bfb17fa8cb865644b1d4239335148977d3bc6267

The reply needs to go to the <listname>-request address and it needs to
preserve the subject or possibly make a subject of the form

Subject: Re: confirm bfb17fa8cb865644b1d4239335148977d3bc6267

There is an issue with certain MUAs (MS Outlook) that will make the
subject of the reply

Subject: Re : confirm bfb17fa8cb865644b1d4239335148977d3bc6267

This will not work. I.e. 'confirm' needs to be either the first or the
second "token" following Subject:

See the thread at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-March/043360.html

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Matthew.Marshall at noaa.gov  Mon Mar 28 20:01:15 2005
From: Matthew.Marshall at noaa.gov (Matthew A. Marshall)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 13:01:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to subscribe.
In-Reply-To: <p0620074bbe6deff55d7e@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <42482A98.30800@noaa.gov> <p0620074bbe6deff55d7e@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <4248466B.4060207@noaa.gov>

Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 11:02 AM -0500 2005-03-28, Matthew A. Marshall wrote:
>
>>  Hello, I'm running mailman v2.1.5.  When I attempt to subscribe to a
>>  list via the web gui.  I receive the email I need to confirm.  I reply
>>  to the email.  The email is received by my mailman server.  I see it
>>  in the maillog.   However, after that nothing happens.  I am not added
>>  to the list nor a message stating that I have sucessfully subscribed.
>>  Has anyone else had this problem?
>
>
>     This could be the "redirect" problem.  See 
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp>.
>
A few other things I should mention, I have no problems with posting a 
message to a list.  The problem only seems to be with new requests.  
Also, the list's email address is listname at noaa.gov instead of 
listname at listserver.noaa.gov. 

Thanks!
--Matt


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 28 20:28:31 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 10:28:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wierd Problem creating list
In-Reply-To: <003b01c533c1$44d917f0$5bbd4155@aish8yaygqb4pb>
Message-ID: <PC17452005032810283103479ffe1e9a@msapiro>

Tamara Yoggev wrote:
>
>But now I'm having an even stranger problem!
>
>when I go to http://www.aishlist.com/mailman/create I get the following:
>
>Bug in Mailman version 2.1.6b4

Just guessing without the logs, maybe the wrappers aren't being
executed by the expected group. Did you use the --with-cgi-gid= option
when you ran configure? is this group the one that Apache uses to run
your cgi scripts?

<snip>
>and BTW, my /usr/local/mailman/logs/error file is empty!

Are there any non-empty logs in that directory?

Check Defaults.py and mm_cfg.py for assignment to LOG_DIR to see if it
might be in other than the default location.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 28 21:22:16 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:22:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wierd Problem creating list
In-Reply-To: <004301c533c7$9bebd680$5bbd4155@aish8yaygqb4pb>
Message-ID: <PC174520050328112216009721c93251@msapiro>

Tamara Yoggev wrote:

>According to what I found in httpd.conf
>User apache
>
>Group apache
>
>I used:
>--with-cgi-gid=apache (Is there any way I could double check this? I ran the 
>configure a while ago, but I'm sure thats what I did)

It's probably OK. I forgot you started by asking about web create not
working. If you can get the web create page (or any of the web pages),
then the wrappers should be OK.

But I'm confused. You were able to get the create page before you
changed ScriptAlias, etc so you were getting to wrappers somewhere?


><snip>
>> Are there any non-empty logs in that directory?
>
>yes, smtp seems fine. and LOG_DIR  is pointing to the right place:
>VAR_PREFIX = '/usr/local/mailman'
>
>LOG_DIR = os.path.join(VAR_PREFIX, 'logs')

Is the error log group writable?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ByrneJB at Harte-Lyne.ca  Mon Mar 28 21:25:34 2005
From: ByrneJB at Harte-Lyne.ca (James B. Byrne)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 14:25:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Transfering mailman lists between servers
Message-ID: <424813DE.30887.6725648E@localhost>

I have read and attempted to follow the instructions given in the 
FAQ but I am unable to successfully transfer mailman lists between 
two machines.

The source host is running mailman-2.1.5-8, the target host is 
running mailman-2.1.5-33.rhel4.  I first created the lists on the 
target host in order that any logical or hard links would be set up 
for the archives. I next shutdown and cleared out the mail services 
on the source host.  I then tarred the source hosts's 
mailman/archives/private and mailman/lists and transferred these to 
the target host and restored them into the appropriate directories. 
 
Now when I access the web admin screen on the target host I am told 
that there are no lists configured at all.  But, if I try and add 
one of the lists that I transferred then I am told that it already 
exists.  What piece of configuration data am I missing and how do I 
provide it?

Regards,
Jim


--   
     *** e-mail is not a secure channel ***
mailto:byrnejb.<token>@harte-lyne.ca
James B. Byrne                Harte & Lyne Limited
vox: +1 905 561 1241          9 Brockley Drive
fax: +1 905 561 0757          Hamilton, Ontario
<token> = hal                 Canada L8E 3C3



From stephanie.elsy at gmail.com  Mon Mar 28 21:27:58 2005
From: stephanie.elsy at gmail.com (Stephanie)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 13:27:58 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Exim problem with very slow outgoing mail
	on one list
Message-ID: <6a6160e70503281127779dff0f@mail.gmail.com>

I'm hoping someone has some ideas for fixing a problem with very
slowwwww outgoing mail delivery for one particular list I host.  I'm
running Mailman 2.1.5 and Exim 4.40.  I host a couple dozen Mailman
lists on my Linux server, most are less than 300 members except for
one list with about 1,100 members, about 850 set to individual emails
and 250 on digest.

I've hosted this list (call it ABC list) for almost two years now and
up until about a month ago, outgoing mail for ABC list (and all other
outgoing mail, list) got processed very quickly, getting delivered to
the recipient's server at a rate of about 1,000-1,200 per hour.  The
ABC list will get posts in several messages, usually two to four per
topic and once a month, there's a posting that's 12 to 14 messages.

About a month ago, at a time where there were NO updates to anything
on my server, hadn't been any for about two weeks prior, suddenly
outgoing mail on the ABC list *only* slowed down to a quarter of the
usual speed, processing about 300 messages per hour, even if there
were no other messages in the Exim queue.  The messages get processed
by Mailman to Exim at the usual speed, takes about ten minutes for
Exim to accept 850 messages and queue them and start delivering them
but instead of being sent out 1,000-1,200 per hour, suddenly they
stick in Exim, even ones for delivery to local email addresses,
delivering only about 300 per hour.

All other lists and private mail process at the normal faster levels. 
If there's outgoing messages from other Mailman lists, those messages
will get processed and sent out while the messages for ABC list
languish in the Exim queue.  (Note: most all of the lists I host, and
especially the busier ones, including ABC list, are set in Mailman to
VERP all messages, it's been set like that for over a year.)  Forcing
additional Exim queue runners doesn't do anything but increase the
load on my server as it tries to process even more very slow messages.

About two weeks ago, one of my users created a new list (call it XYZ
list) and directly added about 950 users in one go (she was creating a
backup list for Yahoogroup) and she neglected to turn off the notices
to the listowner of new members and she didn't turn off the welcome
message either so approximately 1,900 messages got sent out
immediately.  At the same time, there were about 10,000 messages in
the Exim queue for ABC list (the 12 part monthly posting), processing
at their very slow pace.  The individual welcome messages and new
members for XYZ list notices flew right on past, the 950+ welcome
messages and the new member notices went thru the Exim queue in about
20 minutes with just a handful left waiting on problems at the
recipient's server.

At first glance I would think this is strictly an Exim problem but
since it's affecting a single Mailman list, I keep coming back to
something going wrong between the two.  I have checked Exim logs and
Mailman logs, can't see anything out of place.  I've gone thru the
Mailman FAQ and also the Exim/Mailman HowTo and tweaked things but
still no difference, every other list flies on by while the ABC list
plods along slowly.

This problem applies to all the outgoing messages on the ABC list,
doesn't matter what receiving ISP, they all get treated just a slowly.
 I've checked that in the logs and watched it in the queue, even
messages destined for other users I host will sit and wait.  I've
watched the individual delivery attempts, when I force delivery of one
of the ABC list messages, it'll take at least 30 seconds before Exim
even attempts to lookup the recipient's ISP but once it gets to that
point, it flies right on thru, speedy as usual.  It's that 30-45
second delay as it's pulling up the message (or whatever) that I can't
determine the cause.  If it was all mail or even all Mailman mail, I'd
know it was some problem with Exim or dns (which I checked and changed
anyway, didn't make any difference) but it's just this one list, no
other lists and other non-list mail is not affected at all.

The only thing I can think of that I haven't tried yet is exporting
all the list settings and member list (there's no archives thankfully)
and deleting the list and re-creating it but I have no idea if that
would help...any suggestions, hints, tips, wild ideas, anything at
all, is very welcome.

-- 
hth,
Stephanie

Links blog: http://alice.ttlg.net/links/
Glenfinnan Web Hosting: http://www.glenfinnan.net/

The machine does not isolate man from the great problems of nature but
plunges him more deeply into them.
-- Antoine De Saint-Exupery [Wind, Sand, Stars]


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 28 21:38:11 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:38:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Transfering mailman lists between servers
In-Reply-To: <424813DE.30887.6725648E@localhost>
Message-ID: <PC1745200503281138110660521fb07f@msapiro>

James B. Byrne wrote:
> 
>Now when I access the web admin screen on the target host I am told 
>that there are no lists configured at all.  But, if I try and add 
>one of the lists that I transferred then I am told that it already 
>exists.  What piece of configuration data am I missing and how do I 
>provide it?

Are the domains different. Were the list visible when you first created
them? See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp.
You probably need to run fix_url.py. You may also need to rebuild the
archives with bin/arch if the "more info" links need to be fixed.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 28 21:50:34 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:50:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wierd Problem creating list
In-Reply-To: <005401c533cc$f4643500$5bbd4155@aish8yaygqb4pb>
Message-ID: <PC1745200503281150340847a8530891@msapiro>

Tamara Yoggev wrote:

>That's right, only after I fixed (in mailman.conf, which is included in 
>httpd.conf) the following :
>This is what I originally had with my previous problem "no such list etc."
>
>ScriptAlias /mailman/ /var/mailman/cgi-bin/
>
>Alias /pipermail/ /var/mailman/archives/public/
>
><Directory /var/mailman/archives>
>
>Options +FollowSymlinks
>
></Directory>


There must be a set of wrappers in /var/mailman/cgi-bin/ These are
probably correct.

Where is the archives/public directory. Is there one in /var/mailman?


>I changed this to (mailman is installed in: /usr/local/mailman):
>
>
>
>ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/


Does this directory even exist. Is there a set of wrappers it it?


>Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/
>
><Directory /usr/local/mailman/archives>


Also does this directory exist?


>Options +FollowSymlinks
>
></Directory>
>
>After I made this change, which seemed to be reasonable to me, maybe I'm 
>wrong did I see the-
>
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!

Actually, there must be wrappers in /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/ too or
you wouldn't see the "we hit a bug" message.

It seems you may have run ./configure and make install more than once
with different --with-var-prefix values and without running make clean
in between.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Matthew.Marshall at noaa.gov  Mon Mar 28 22:11:05 2005
From: Matthew.Marshall at noaa.gov (Matthew A. Marshall)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 15:11:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to subscribe.
In-Reply-To: <PC1745200503280947530910229019a3@msapiro>
References: <PC1745200503280947530910229019a3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <424864D9.3060607@noaa.gov>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Matthew A. Marshall wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Hello, I'm running mailman v2.1.5.  When I attempt to subscribe to a 
>>list via the web gui.  I receive the email I need to confirm.  I reply 
>>to the email.  The email is received by my mailman server.  I see it in 
>>the maillog.   However, after that nothing happens.  I am not added to 
>>the list nor a message stating that I have sucessfully subscribed.  Has 
>>anyone else had this problem?
>>    
>>
>
>The e-mail has a subject of the form
>
>Subject: confirm bfb17fa8cb865644b1d4239335148977d3bc6267
>
>The reply needs to go to the <listname>-request address and it needs to
>preserve the subject or possibly make a subject of the form
>
>Subject: Re: confirm bfb17fa8cb865644b1d4239335148977d3bc6267
>
>There is an issue with certain MUAs (MS Outlook) that will make the
>subject of the reply
>
>Subject: Re : confirm bfb17fa8cb865644b1d4239335148977d3bc6267
>
>This will not work. I.e. 'confirm' needs to be either the first or the
>second "token" following Subject:
>
>See the thread at
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-March/043360.html
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/matthew.marshall%40noaa.gov
>
>Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>
>  
>
I double checked the message subject.  It's shouldn't be the cause.  I 
ran into this same problem with mailman 2.0.x. 


This is what I see.  We have a mail router which accepts incoming email 
for anyone at noaa.gov.  This includes mailing lists.  The 
listname-request at noaa.gov gets forwarded to 
listname-request at listserver.noaa.gov.   I see the message come in and 
get sent to mailman.  Nothing after that.  If I send the confirmation to 
listname-request at listserver.noaa.gov instead of 
listname-request at noaa.gov I see the message come in, get sent to mailman 
and then the welcome message sent back out.  This makes absolutly no 
sense as to why it works one way, but not the other.

--Matt


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 28 22:18:43 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:18:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wierd Problem creating list
In-Reply-To: <006a01c533d1$0736a3d0$5bbd4155@aish8yaygqb4pb>
Message-ID: <PC1745200503281218430910c9b613f9@msapiro>

Tamara Yoggev wrote:

>All of these folders exist:
>
>/var/mailman/archives/public/
>/var/mailman/cgi-bin/
>/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
>/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/
>
>> It seems you may have run ./configure and make install more than once
>> with different --with-var-prefix values and without running make clean
>> in between.
>
> Yes, I did do that, I would have thought that I ran make clean in between, 
>but there is a definite
>chance I missed it, and just ran make by mistake (Since I ran configure 
>several times until I felt I got it right)
>
>Do you suggest I run configure again and recompile?

That would be the safest. Now, make clean will only remove the last
installation (which is probably the good one).

If I were you, I would save my mm_cfg.py changes if any and remove
/var/mailman/ and /usr/local/mailman/ and the 2.1.6b4 source and
download beta 5 from http://mm.tkikuchi.net/mailman-2.1.6b5.tgz and
rerun configure and make install.

That way, you'll know exactly what you've got.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 28 22:27:21 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:27:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to subscribe.
In-Reply-To: <424864D9.3060607@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1745200503281227210457630a323e@msapiro>

Matthew A. Marshall wrote:
>
>This is what I see.  We have a mail router which accepts incoming email 
>for anyone at noaa.gov.  This includes mailing lists.  The 
>listname-request at noaa.gov gets forwarded to 
>listname-request at listserver.noaa.gov.   I see the message come in and 
>get sent to mailman.  Nothing after that.  If I send the confirmation to 
>listname-request at listserver.noaa.gov instead of 
>listname-request at noaa.gov I see the message come in, get sent to mailman 
>and then the welcome message sent back out.  This makes absolutly no 
>sense as to why it works one way, but not the other.

It makes no sense to me either, but it seems that somehow the process
of forwarding from listname-request at noaa.gov to
listname-request at listserver.noaa.gov is changing something in the
message other than just adding another Received: header. Does it
rewrite the envelope sender? I don't even know if this would matter -
just grasping at straws - but something must be going on in that
process.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Mar 28 22:40:02 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:40:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Exim problem with very slow outgoing
	mailon one list
In-Reply-To: <6a6160e70503281127779dff0f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17452005032812400201442c8ce4d2@msapiro>

Stephanie wrote:
>
>At first glance I would think this is strictly an Exim problem but
>since it's affecting a single Mailman list, I keep coming back to
>something going wrong between the two.

I agree this certainly seems to be a strictly Exim problem. See
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-January/041815.html

This addresses delays within Mailman, but the underlying problem might
apply to Exim queues as well as Mailman queues. I have no idea really,
but it might be worth a look.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From md69 at md69.co.uk  Mon Mar 28 23:08:12 2005
From: md69 at md69.co.uk (Martin Dennett)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 22:08:12 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Membership lists
Message-ID: <4248723C.8040109@md69.co.uk>

I'm familiar with the "who <password>" facility to retrieve the 
membership listing, but is there a way I can receive this info with the 
individual settings for each subscriber? I'm particularly interested in 
members who have their mail delivery disabled, as I want to change them 
all to subscribe to the topic that I've set up specificially to be able 
to contact them all.

Is there a way to force everybody to subscribe to a topic when they 
first join the list, as this could save a lot of time in the future?

Regards

Martin Dennett


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Mar 29 00:21:54 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 23:21:54 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Membership lists
In-Reply-To: <4248723C.8040109@md69.co.uk>
References: <4248723C.8040109@md69.co.uk>
Message-ID: <p06200757be6e33883415@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:08 PM +0100 2005-03-28, Martin Dennett wrote:

>  I'm familiar with the "who <password>" facility to retrieve the
>  membership listing, but is there a way I can receive this info with
>  the individual settings for each subscriber?

	Sorry, this is not possible with the current version of Mailman. 
If you want this sort of thing, you either need to have 
administrative access to the command-line of the Mailman server, or 
you may be able to script the web interface.  Please search the 
archives for more info.

>  Is there a way to force everybody to subscribe to a topic when they
>  first join the list, as this could save a lot of time in the future?

	Sorry again.  I don't even know if you can script this one.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From ByrneJB at Harte-Lyne.ca  Tue Mar 29 00:00:09 2005
From: ByrneJB at Harte-Lyne.ca (James B. Byrne)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 17:00:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Transfering mailman lists between servers
In-Reply-To: <PC1745200503281138110660521fb07f@msapiro>
References: <424813DE.30887.6725648E@localhost>
Message-ID: <42483819.20932.67B2EC80@localhost>

On 28 Mar 2005 at 11:38, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Are the domains different. Were the list visible when you first
> created them? See
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.
> htp . You probably need to run fix_url.py. You may also need to
> rebuild the archives with bin/arch if the "more info" links need
> to be fixed. 

Here is the scenario.  These lists are presently hosted on a server 
that is to be decommissioned.  At that time the host name of that 
server will be transferred to the target machine as a CNAME.  I 
wish to confirm that the lists are reachable from the network on 
the new host before cutting over.  I infer from the instructions 
given above that in order to test this I will have to run:

bin/withlist -l -r fix_url <listname> -u <newhostname.domain.tld>

for each list, test, and when the host name change occurs then redo 
it on the same host with the old name again:

bin/withlist -l -r fix_url <listname> -u <oldhostname.domain.tld>

In a similar fashion the archives need to be reconstructed using 
bin/arch.

Does this describe the situation?

Regards,
Jim

--   
     *** e-mail is not a secure channel ***
mailto:byrnejb.<token>@harte-lyne.ca
James B. Byrne                Harte & Lyne Limited
vox: +1 905 561 1241          9 Brockley Drive
fax: +1 905 561 0757          Hamilton, Ontario
<token> = hal                 Canada L8E 3C3



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 29 00:54:41 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 14:54:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Transfering mailman lists between servers
In-Reply-To: <42483819.20932.67B2EC80@localhost>
Message-ID: <PC174520050328145441083290b99fa9@msapiro>

James B. Byrne wrote:

>On 28 Mar 2005 at 11:38, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Are the domains different. Were the list visible when you first
>> created them? See
>> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.
>> htp . You probably need to run fix_url.py. You may also need to
>> rebuild the archives with bin/arch if the "more info" links need
>> to be fixed. 
>
>Here is the scenario.  These lists are presently hosted on a server 
>that is to be decommissioned.  At that time the host name of that 
>server will be transferred to the target machine as a CNAME.  I 
>wish to confirm that the lists are reachable from the network on 
>the new host before cutting over.  I infer from the instructions 
>given above that in order to test this I will have to run:
>
>bin/withlist -l -r fix_url <listname> -u <newhostname.domain.tld>
>
>for each list, test, and when the host name change occurs then redo 
>it on the same host with the old name again:
>
>bin/withlist -l -r fix_url <listname> -u <oldhostname.domain.tld>
>
>In a similar fashion the archives need to be reconstructed using 
>bin/arch.
>
>Does this describe the situation?


Depending on just how much testing you want to do, you could skip all
of the above. You won't see any lists on the
http://newhostname.domain.tld/mailman/listinfo/ or the
http://newhostname.domain.tld/mailman/admin pages, but you should
still see and be able to administer the lists by going to
http://newhostname.domain.tld/mailman/listinfo/<listname> and
http://newhostname.domain.tld/mailman/admin/<listname> pages and
visiting their archives.

Also, if you set VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = Off in mm_cfg.py, you should
also see all the public lists on the first two pages. This should be
enough to let you know things are working without actually going
through all the fix_url and bin/arch stuff.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lynn at siprelle.com  Tue Mar 29 03:11:05 2005
From: lynn at siprelle.com (Lynn Siprelle)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 17:11:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help! mailman not working with virtual servers
In-Reply-To: <20050327114123.GB6505@server.onjapan.net>
References: <PC17452005032520294100000a4c3ea9@msapiro>
	<176164b9c2a3e33b63938b77e281a015@siprelle.com>
	<e608421df0337e6db366ca2c3d7c6554@onjapan.net>
	<6348185fab744f5345c44455239cdff4@siprelle.com>
	<20050327114123.GB6505@server.onjapan.net>
Message-ID: <15d60201cf8e31568b69a16ebfb592bb@siprelle.com>


On Mar 27, 2005, at 3:41 AM, Jim Tittsler wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 26, 2005 at 09:16:00AM -0800, Lynn Siprelle wrote:
>> I don't doubt you, and I will try it, but why would it work on one
>> machine and not another, both using Apache?
>
> Do *any* CGI scripts work on the second machine?  (Is mod_cgi
> being loaded/enabled?)

Yes and yes; other cgi scripts work fine. Mailman works fine, just not 
on the virtual servers.

> No clues at all in the Apache error logs?

Just the ever-charming and informative "premature end of script 
headers."

Lynn S.

------
Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky
http://www.siprelle.com * http://www.thenewhomemaker.com
http://www.democracyfororegon.com * http://www.knitting911.net



From lynn at siprelle.com  Tue Mar 29 03:22:48 2005
From: lynn at siprelle.com (Lynn Siprelle)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 17:22:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help! mailman not working with virtual servers
In-Reply-To: <PC1745200503262203310171241c2cca@msapiro>
References: <PC1745200503262203310171241c2cca@msapiro>
Message-ID: <5cfe8bb9e01bc806471f6cb3e6d4ac3e@siprelle.com>


> I'm out of ideas and down to grasping at straws.

Yeah, you and me both. :(

> I noticed in your post
> of the VirtualHost section of your Apache config, the first
> ScriptAlias was not indented like the rest of the section.

This is an artifact of the DirectAdmin system that my host uses. After 
much digging I found the workaround to avoid this portion of the 
DirectAdmin software, and I will look at this.

Thanks.
Lynn

------
Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky
http://www.siprelle.com * http://www.thenewhomemaker.com
http://www.democracyfororegon.com * http://www.knitting911.net



From ByrneJB at Harte-Lyne.ca  Tue Mar 29 06:00:13 2005
From: ByrneJB at Harte-Lyne.ca (James B. Byrne )
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 23:00:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Transfering mailman lists between servers
In-Reply-To: <PC174520050328145441083290b99fa9@msapiro>
References: <42483819.20932.67B2EC80@localhost>
Message-ID: <BAYC1-PASMTP02796E68D8ECD1B6D4A7DADB450@cez.ice>

Your suggested approach worked and, as far as I can tell, I 
simply need to change the DNS records to complete the swap. At the 
worst I will simply have to switch back to the original server and 
rethink things.

Thank you.

-- 

***     e-mail is NOT a secure channel     ***
James B. Byrne                mailto:ByrneJB.<token>@Harte-Lyne.ca
Harte & Lyne Limited          http://www.harte-lyne.ca
9 Brockley Drive              vox: +1 905 561 1241
Hamilton, Ontario             fax: +1 905 561 0757
Canada  L8E 3CE               delivery <token> = hal


From jwblist at olympus.net  Tue Mar 29 17:44:01 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 07:44:01 -0800
Subject: [exim] Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Exim problem with very
	slow outgoing mailon one list
In-Reply-To: <PC17452005032812400201442c8ce4d2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BE6EB7C1.3B1C%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 3/28/2005 12:40, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Stephanie wrote:
>> 
>> At first glance I would think this is strictly an Exim problem but
>> since it's affecting a single Mailman list, I keep coming back to
>> something going wrong between the two.
> 
> I agree this certainly seems to be a strictly Exim problem. See
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-January/041815.html
> 
> This addresses delays within Mailman, but the underlying problem might
> apply to Exim queues as well as Mailman queues. I have no idea really,
> but it might be worth a look.

The environment was earlier in the thread said to be unchanged.  I would ask
Stephanie whether that environment extends to the local caching name server
still working?  Changes to firewalling (specifically whether Ident has been
foolishly dropped (instead of rejected) in a router or firewall, if Exim is
set up to use it)?

   --John



From darkman at clicqx.com  Tue Mar 29 18:11:41 2005
From: darkman at clicqx.com (Darkman)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 08:11:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] filtering mp3's
Message-ID: <004701c53479$ff981010$0200a8c0@box>

I added audio to my filter_mime_types, but does that filter mp3s? or no, if 
not what would I use to add to my filter_mime_types, thansk in advance.



From ByrneJB at Harte-Lyne.ca  Tue Mar 29 18:55:48 2005
From: ByrneJB at Harte-Lyne.ca (James B. Byrne)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 11:55:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Transfering mailman lists between servers
In-Reply-To: <PC174520050328145441083290b99fa9@msapiro>
References: <42483819.20932.67B2EC80@localhost>
Message-ID: <42494244.30779.6BC2AA0E@localhost>

In the continuing saga of transferring mailman hosts (and moving 
from mailman mailman-2.1.5-8 to mailman-2.1.5-33) I performed the 
cut-over this morning using the following steps:

1.	Shutdown SMTP service on the old mailman host (service sendmail 
stop)

2.	Clear mqueue of all outstanding mailman deliveries (sendmail -
qRmailman)

3.	Clear data of all outstanding mailman administrative requests 
(as a practical matter there were none).

4.	Shutdown Mailman service on the old mailman host (service 
mailman stop)

5.	# cd /var/lib/mailman

6.	# tar -xvf mailmanArchives.tar /var/lib/mailman/archives

7.	# tar -xvf mailmanLists.tar /var/lib/mailman/lists

8.	# gzip -S .gz mailman*tar

9.	Down and remove mailman IP alias address on old host. (webmin 
Networking module - use ifconfig and edit etc/sysconfig entries if 
done manually)

10.	Log on to new mailman host.

11.	Stop mailman service (service mailman stop).

11.	# cd /var/lib/mailman

12.	# sftp <oldhost>; sftp> get /var/lib/mailman/mailman*.tar.gz; 
sftp> quit

14.	tar -xvzf mailman*.tar.gz

15.	/usr/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms -f -v

16.	Add mailman IP alias address to new host NIC (webmin as above)

17.	Start mailman service on new host (service mailman start)

18.	Make sure that /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf is configured to 
listen on the new IP address.

19.	Restart httpd service on new host (service httpd restart)

20.	Browse to mailman.domain.tld/mailman - mailman Greeting page 
displays! All the public lists are listed! All the list subscriber 
pages are reachable by hyperlink!  Subscriber requests work! All 
list administrative pages are reachable by hyperlink!  
Administrative requests work! 


!!!Archives unreachable??????

The Link to a transferred list's archives gives the following 
error:

Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /pipermail/transferlist/ on 
this server.

Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to 
use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
Apache/2.0.52 (CentOS) Server at mailman.domain.tld Port 80


/var/log/httpd/error_log:

[Tue Mar 29 11:37:55 2005] [error] [client 216.185.xxx.xxx] 
Symbolic link not allowed: 
/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/transferlist

However, a list that was created on the new machine links to its 
own archives without problems.


This is the mailman.conf file contents:

/etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf

#
#  httpd configuration settings for use with mailman.
#

ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
<Directory /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/>
    AllowOverride None
    Options ExecCGI
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>


Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
<Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/public>
    Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks
    AllowOverride None
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>

# Uncomment the following line, replacing www.example.com with your 
server's
# name, to redirect queries to /mailman to the listinfo page 
(recommended).

RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$ 
http://mailman.domain.tld/mailman/listinfo


Now, the interesting thing is that the locally created lists have 
archive hyperlinks of the form mailman.domain.tld while the 
transferred lists have archive hyperlinks of the form 
<realhostname>.domain.tld.  I am not sure how this can be but it is 
the case none the less.  So, do I run bin/fix_url.py or add an 
additional redirect directive to conf.d/mailman.conf or do 
something else?


Any and all assistance greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Jim

--   
     *** e-mail is not a secure channel ***
mailto:byrnejb.<token>@harte-lyne.ca
James B. Byrne                Harte & Lyne Limited
vox: +1 905 561 1241          9 Brockley Drive
fax: +1 905 561 0757          Hamilton, Ontario
<token> = hal                 Canada L8E 3C3



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 29 19:09:27 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 09:09:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] filtering mp3's
In-Reply-To: <004701c53479$ff981010$0200a8c0@box>
Message-ID: <PC174520050329090927026533a37424@msapiro>

Darkman wrote:

>I added audio to my filter_mime_types, but does that filter mp3s? or no, if 
>not what would I use to add to my filter_mime_types, thansk in advance.

This will disallow all audio types including audio/mpeg and audio/MPA
which are the types that _should_ be used for mp3 content, but there's
no way to guarantee that someone (or some MUA) wouldn't send an mp3
file as application/octet-stream or application/x-anything or some
other type.

In the latest 2.1.6 beta, there is the ability to filter messages based
on extension or other pattern match of the 'filename' of the
attachment. E.g., placing the following regex in header_filter_rules

 content-.*name.*\.mp3

will filter messages with file attachments with '.mp3' in the name.
Note that this is *message* filtering based on the attachment, not
filtering of the attachment from the message.

The latest beta can be downloaded from   
http://mm.tkikuchi.net/mailman-2.1.6b5.tgz

The latest on sourceforge is still 2.1.6b4 which has a bug in this
feature.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 29 19:49:15 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 09:49:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Transfering mailman lists between servers
In-Reply-To: <42494244.30779.6BC2AA0E@localhost>
Message-ID: <PC1745200503290949150875e7e3ef3a@msapiro>

James B. Byrne wrote"
>
>!!!Archives unreachable??????
>
>The Link to a transferred list's archives gives the following 
>error:
>
>Forbidden
>
>You don't have permission to access /pipermail/transferlist/ on 
>this server.
>
>Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to 
>use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
>Apache/2.0.52 (CentOS) Server at mailman.domain.tld Port 80
>
>
>/var/log/httpd/error_log:
>
>[Tue Mar 29 11:37:55 2005] [error] [client 216.185.xxx.xxx] 
>Symbolic link not allowed: 
>/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/transferlist
>
>However, a list that was created on the new machine links to its 
>own archives without problems.
>
>
>This is the mailman.conf file contents:
>
>/etc/httpd/conf.d/mailman.conf
>
>#
>#  httpd configuration settings for use with mailman.
>#
>
>ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
><Directory /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/>
>    AllowOverride None
>    Options ExecCGI
>    Order allow,deny
>    Allow from all
></Directory>
>
>
>Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
><Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/public>
>    Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks
>    AllowOverride None
>    Order allow,deny
>    Allow from all
></Directory>

You have Options FollowSymLinks so that should be OK, but it apparently
doesn't get applied when the host is <realhostname>.domain.tld.



>Now, the interesting thing is that the locally created lists have 
>archive hyperlinks of the form mailman.domain.tld while the 
>transferred lists have archive hyperlinks of the form 
><realhostname>.domain.tld.  I am not sure how this can be but it is 
>the case none the less.  So, do I run bin/fix_url.py or add an 
>additional redirect directive to conf.d/mailman.conf or do 
>something else?


What happens if you go to
http://mailman.domain.tld/pipermail/transferlist/

Do the directives in mailman.conf only apply to the mailman.domain.tld
host?

Where are these hyperlinks of the form
http://<realhostname>.domain.tld/pipermail/... Are they everywhere in
the archive or just on the listinfo page? Have you changed
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL in mm_cfg.py?

If the various links to the listinfo and admin pages have the right
domain, you probably don't need to run fix_url.py.

If the 'bad' links are everywhere in the archive, then they were that
way on the old machine. If you want to 'fix' them, you need to run

 bin/arch --wipe

for each list, but it might be better to figure out what's needed in
the Apache config to make things work as they are.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Matthew.Marshall at noaa.gov  Tue Mar 29 20:02:39 2005
From: Matthew.Marshall at noaa.gov (Matthew A. Marshall)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 13:02:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to subscribe.
In-Reply-To: <PC1745200503281227210457630a323e@msapiro>
References: <PC1745200503281227210457630a323e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4249983F.1090806@noaa.gov>

I see the qrunner has the option of running in verbose mode.  However, I 
do not see how to enable this option with the mailmanctl script.  I 
would rather not go in and edit the qrunner script.  Is there something 
obvious I'm missing?


Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Matthew A. Marshall wrote:
>  
>
>>This is what I see.  We have a mail router which accepts incoming email 
>>for anyone at noaa.gov.  This includes mailing lists.  The 
>>listname-request at noaa.gov gets forwarded to 
>>listname-request at listserver.noaa.gov.   I see the message come in and 
>>get sent to mailman.  Nothing after that.  If I send the confirmation to 
>>listname-request at listserver.noaa.gov instead of 
>>listname-request at noaa.gov I see the message come in, get sent to mailman 
>>and then the welcome message sent back out.  This makes absolutly no 
>>sense as to why it works one way, but not the other.
>>    
>>
>
>It makes no sense to me either, but it seems that somehow the process
>of forwarding from listname-request at noaa.gov to
>listname-request at listserver.noaa.gov is changing something in the
>message other than just adding another Received: header. Does it
>rewrite the envelope sender? I don't even know if this would matter -
>just grasping at straws - but something must be going on in that
>process.
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/matthew.marshall%40noaa.gov
>
>Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>
>  
>



From motowrench at gmail.com  Tue Mar 29 20:12:49 2005
From: motowrench at gmail.com (moto wrench)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 10:12:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Handling multiple subscriptions with one
	confirmation
Message-ID: <7fad6c77050329101241cbb8cf@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I'm hosting several related list using MM 2.15 on Freebsd. I would
like to  enable members to subscribe to several list with only one
confirmation.

Currently, I use a html form to collect user registration and
subscription information and then send an email with a reply-to header
to each list-request address.

I'm unfamiliar to mailman but scanning the archives leads me to
believe this might be possible. My idea is to create a new
subscription address and use the mailman libraries to generate
confirmation codes and then subscribe each confirmed email to the
owners selected list.

Can anyone with MM experience offer some insights on how this should be done?

TIA,

J


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 29 20:39:37 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 10:39:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to subscribe.
In-Reply-To: <4249983F.1090806@noaa.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1745200503291039370250f4c64bff@msapiro>

Matthew A. Marshall wrote:

>I see the qrunner has the option of running in verbose mode.  However, I 
>do not see how to enable this option with the mailmanctl script.  I 
>would rather not go in and edit the qrunner script.  Is there something 
>obvious I'm missing?

You can run bin/qrunner manually, but --verbose won't help you. All it
does is:

if verbose:
    syslog('qrunner', 'Now doing a %s qrunner iteration',
           qrunner.__class__.__bases__[0].__name__)

at the end of each loop.


--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ByrneJB at Harte-Lyne.ca  Tue Mar 29 22:18:05 2005
From: ByrneJB at Harte-Lyne.ca (James B. Byrne)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 15:18:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Transfering mailman lists between servers
In-Reply-To: <PC1745200503290949150875e7e3ef3a@msapiro>
References: <42494244.30779.6BC2AA0E@localhost>
Message-ID: <424971AD.9730.6C7BDD1F@localhost>

On 29 Mar 2005 at 9:49, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> 
> What happens if you go to
> http://mailman.domain.tld/pipermail/transferlist/
> 

Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /pipermail/transferlist/ on 
this server.

Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to 
use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

> Do the directives in mailman.conf only apply to the
> mailman.domain.tld host?
> 

To my knowledge, no.  As far as I can tell the mailman.conf 
directives are applied across every IP address on the server.  
There are no other redirects specified elsewhere that deal with 
\mailman or \pipermail and I lack sufficient experience with http 
directives to know whether or not this situation can be resolved by 
adding a second Redirectmatch for the fqdn host or if that would 
just override the one for the mailman aliased hostname.

> Where are these hyperlinks of the form
> http://<realhostname>.domain.tld/pipermail/... Are they
> everywhere in the archive or just on the listinfo page? 

All the archives, both the testlist and the others, have embedded 
http links of the form:

testlist/2004-July/index.html:       <li><b><a 
href="http://mailman.domain.tld/mailman/listinfo/testlist">More 
info on this list...

and

/thread.html:      <li><b><a 
href="http://mailman.domain.tld/mailman/listinfo/reallist">


> Have you changed PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL in mm_cfg.py? 

No.

Thanks,
Jim

--   
     *** e-mail is not a secure channel ***
mailto:byrnejb.<token>@harte-lyne.ca
James B. Byrne                Harte & Lyne Limited
vox: +1 905 561 1241          9 Brockley Drive
fax: +1 905 561 0757          Hamilton, Ontario
<token> = hal                 Canada L8E 3C3



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Mar 29 23:50:33 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 13:50:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Transfering mailman lists between servers
In-Reply-To: <424971AD.9730.6C7BDD1F@localhost>
Message-ID: <PC174520050329135033096852d81369@msapiro>

James B. Byrne wrote:

>On 29 Mar 2005 at 9:49, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> 
>> What happens if you go to
>> http://mailman.domain.tld/pipermail/transferlist/
>> 
>
>Forbidden
>
>You don't have permission to access /pipermail/transferlist/ on 
>this server.
>
>Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to 
>use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.


OK, now I'm really confused. I thought you said when you went to
http://<realhostname>.domain.tld/pipermail/transferlist/ you got the
above error, and if you went to
http://mailman.domain.tld/pipermail/<some_new_list> you got to the
archive.

Are you saying that that is correct, but going to an 'old list' archive
using either host name gives the 403? If that is the case, it must be
a permission issue. Check the group and permissions in the
archives/private/ directory for both old and new lists. If all that
looks OK, it might be a SeLinux issue. Search the archives with
http://www.google.com/search?&q=site%3Amail.python.org+inurl%3Amailman-users+selinux
for more on this.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ByrneJB at Harte-Lyne.ca  Wed Mar 30 00:13:19 2005
From: ByrneJB at Harte-Lyne.ca (James B. Byrne)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:13:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Transfering mailman lists between servers
Message-ID: <42498CAF.6595.6CE55C50@localhost>

Ok.  I fixed the errors.  The 403 Forbidden was caused by restoring 
logical links dependent upon a different directory layout than that 
used by CentOS4 (RHEL4), "/var/mailman/archives/public" vice 
"/var/lib/mailman/archives/public."

The logical links that got tarred from the old host pointed to 
"<listname> -> /var/mailman/archives/private/<listname>", which is 
a directory structure that does not exist on the new server, hence 
the error.  Repairing the logical links to "<listname> -> 
/var/lib/mailman/archives/private/<listname>" fixed that problem.

The problem with mapping the fqdn host to the mailman alias I 
accomplished by adding the following to the mailman.conf file.

# Stolen shamelessly from
# http://httpd.apache.org/docs/misc/rewriteguide.html
# [NC] No Case matching in regexp

RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST}   !^inet07\.(.*)\.otherdomain\.tld [NC]
RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST}   !^$
RewriteRule ^/(.*)         http://mailman.domain.tld/$1

# Uncomment the following line, replacing www.example.com with your 
# server's name, to redirect queries to /mailman to the listinfo 
# page (recommended).
# [L,R] Last directive to match, Return without condition code.
# [R=###] is available as an alternative (### = condition code).

RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$ 
http://mailman.halisp.net/mailman/listinfo [L,R]

Thanks for the help.

Regards,
Jim


--   
     *** e-mail is not a secure channel ***
mailto:byrnejb.<token>@harte-lyne.ca
James B. Byrne                Harte & Lyne Limited
vox: +1 905 561 1241          9 Brockley Drive
fax: +1 905 561 0757          Hamilton, Ontario
<token> = hal                 Canada L8E 3C3



From jdennis at redhat.com  Wed Mar 30 00:37:38 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:37:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Transfering mailman lists between servers
In-Reply-To: <42498CAF.6595.6CE55C50@localhost>
References: <42498CAF.6595.6CE55C50@localhost>
Message-ID: <1112135858.13001.15.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Tue, 2005-03-29 at 17:13 -0500, James B. Byrne wrote:
> Ok.  I fixed the errors.  The 403 Forbidden was caused by restoring 
> logical links dependent upon a different directory layout than that 
> used by CentOS4 (RHEL4), "/var/mailman/archives/public" vice 
> "/var/lib/mailman/archives/public."

The version of mailman in rawhide and the version set to appear in FC4
has a migration script that moves directories and files from the old
layout to the new FHS layout. It is located in /usr/share/doc/mailman-
*/contrib and documentation on the directory structure and change can be
found in /usr/share/doc/mailman-*/INSTALL.REDHAT.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From albert2005ardo at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 30 01:06:13 2005
From: albert2005ardo at yahoo.com (albert ardo)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 15:06:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] work at home
Message-ID: <20050329230613.93989.qmail@web61110.mail.yahoo.com>


WORK AT HOME! BE YOUR OWN BOSS!!

Are you ready for something different and very PROFITABLE? Have you had enough of the daily grind? Are you tired of watching others profit from YOUR efforts? Would you like to work at home to allow more time for your family, friends, or hobbies? Have you given up on all those dubious offers that promise everything, but leave you with nothing? ME TOO!



That's why I became an E-MAIL PROCESSOR. I run the whole business on-line, which means I have extremely low overhead costs and I can do all my work from the privacy and comfort of my own home, around my own schedule. You can earn $500-$1,000 a week part-time or $2,000-$6,000+ full-time or more! Full on-line training is provided! 

All you need is a computer with Internet access, some spare time, and a desire to make a positive change in your life!

 :http://www.freemoneywebsite.com/user_websites/index.php?folder=187801

with the subject line: SHOW ME

 



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From tyoggev at 013.net  Mon Mar 28 20:09:21 2005
From: tyoggev at 013.net (Tamara Yoggev)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 10:09:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wierd Problem creating list
References: <PC17452005032809324208321802374a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <003b01c533c1$44d917f0$5bbd4155@aish8yaygqb4pb>

Thanks for the reply,

I figured that one out, my : scriptalias /pipermail/... and alias 
/mailman/... values in my mailman.conf file, which is included in apaches 
httpd.conf file weren't what they were supposed to be,
they were pointing to var/mailman/cgi-bin ..or something like that (Is that 
a default value?) instead of
usr/local/mailman...

But now I'm having an even stranger problem!

when I go to http://www.aishlist.com/mailman/create I get the following:

Bug in Mailman version 2.1.6b4

We're sorry, we hit a bug!
Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of 
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but 
the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.

I tried to find the solution on the web, but couldn't find anything that 
really helped me. I found some answers regarding postfix
permissions. well, here are the permissions on my .../mailman/data folder:

[root at aishlist data]# ls -l
total 56
-rw-r-----  1 root     mailman    41 Mar 28 01:28 adm.pw
-rw-rw----  1 mailman  mailman  8772 Mar 28 02:06 aliases
-rw-rw----  1 mailman  mailman 12288 Mar 28 02:06 aliases.db
-rw-r-----  1 root     mailman    41 Mar 28 01:28 creator.pw
-rw-r--r--  1 aishlist mailman    10 Mar 22 12:33 last_mailman_version
-rw-rw----  1 mailman  mailman     6 Mar 28 03:19 master-qrunner.pid
-rw-r--r--  1 mailman  mailman 14110 Mar 22 12:32 sitelist.cfg

in main.cf for postfix configuration I've got:
alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/aliases, hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases

and BTW, my /usr/local/mailman/logs/error file is empty!

Any ideas?

Thanks, I really appreciate your help
Tamara
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
To: "Tamara Yoggev" <tyoggev at 013.net>; <Mailman-Users at python.org>
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Wierd Problem creating list


> Tamara Yoggev wrote:
>>
>>1) I went through all the install steps, created a site mailing list 
>>(mailman), and a few other mailing lists (tamara, tests, whatever).
>>I DO get the notification email from mailman-owner, the lists DO appear in 
>>the /usr/local/mailman/lists folder but when I go to the link:
>>  http://www.aishlist.com/mailman/admin/tamara I get "No such list tamara"
>
>
> You now have at least two error tracebacks in your mailman 'error' log
> as a result of my attempts to go to
> http://www.aishlist.com/mailman/admin/tamara and
> http://www.aishlist.com/mailman/admin/
>
> What do they say?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> 




From tyoggev at 013.net  Mon Mar 28 20:54:45 2005
From: tyoggev at 013.net (Tamara Yoggev)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 10:54:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wierd Problem creating list
References: <PC17452005032810283103479ffe1e9a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <004301c533c7$9bebd680$5bbd4155@aish8yaygqb4pb>

According to what I found in httpd.conf
User apache

Group apache

I used:
--with-cgi-gid=apache (Is there any way I could double check this? I ran the 
configure a while ago, but I'm sure thats what I did)

<snip>
> Are there any non-empty logs in that directory?

yes, smtp seems fine. and LOG_DIR  is pointing to the right place:
VAR_PREFIX = '/usr/local/mailman'

LOG_DIR = os.path.join(VAR_PREFIX, 'logs')

PLEASE tell me you've got more ideas.

Thanks,

Tamara



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
To: "Tamara Yoggev" <tyoggev at 013.net>; <Mailman-Users at python.org>
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Wierd Problem creating list


> Tamara Yoggev wrote:
>>
>>But now I'm having an even stranger problem!
>>
>>when I go to http://www.aishlist.com/mailman/create I get the following:
>>
>>Bug in Mailman version 2.1.6b4
>
> Just guessing without the logs, maybe the wrappers aren't being
> executed by the expected group. Did you use the --with-cgi-gid= option
> when you ran configure? is this group the one that Apache uses to run
> your cgi scripts?
>
> <snip>
>>and BTW, my /usr/local/mailman/logs/error file is empty!
>
> Are there any non-empty logs in that directory?
>
> Check Defaults.py and mm_cfg.py for assignment to LOG_DIR to see if it
> might be in other than the default location.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> 




From tyoggev at 013.net  Mon Mar 28 21:33:01 2005
From: tyoggev at 013.net (Tamara Yoggev)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 11:33:01 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wierd Problem creating list
References: <PC174520050328112216009721c93251@msapiro>
Message-ID: <005401c533cc$f4643500$5bbd4155@aish8yaygqb4pb>

That's right, only after I fixed (in mailman.conf, which is included in 
httpd.conf) the following :
This is what I originally had with my previous problem "no such list etc."

ScriptAlias /mailman/ /var/mailman/cgi-bin/

Alias /pipermail/ /var/mailman/archives/public/

<Directory /var/mailman/archives>

Options +FollowSymlinks

</Directory>



I changed this to (mailman is installed in: /usr/local/mailman):



ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/

Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/

<Directory /usr/local/mailman/archives>

Options +FollowSymlinks

</Directory>

After I made this change, which seemed to be reasonable to me, maybe I'm 
wrong did I see the-

We're sorry, we hit a bug!
Tamara
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
To: "Tamara Yoggev" <tyoggev at 013.net>; <Mailman-Users at python.org>
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Wierd Problem creating list


> Tamara Yoggev wrote:
>
>>According to what I found in httpd.conf
>>User apache
>>
>>Group apache
>>
>>I used:
>>--with-cgi-gid=apache (Is there any way I could double check this? I ran 
>>the
>>configure a while ago, but I'm sure thats what I did)
>
> It's probably OK. I forgot you started by asking about web create not
> working. If you can get the web create page (or any of the web pages),
> then the wrappers should be OK.
>
> But I'm confused. You were able to get the create page before you
> changed ScriptAlias, etc so you were getting to wrappers somewhere?
>
>
>><snip>
>>> Are there any non-empty logs in that directory?
>>
>>yes, smtp seems fine. and LOG_DIR  is pointing to the right place:
>>VAR_PREFIX = '/usr/local/mailman'
>>
>>LOG_DIR = os.path.join(VAR_PREFIX, 'logs')
>
> Is the error log group writable?
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> 




From tyoggev at 013.net  Mon Mar 28 22:02:10 2005
From: tyoggev at 013.net (Tamara Yoggev)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:02:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wierd Problem creating list
References: <PC1745200503281150340847a8530891@msapiro>
Message-ID: <006a01c533d1$0736a3d0$5bbd4155@aish8yaygqb4pb>

All of these folders exist:

/var/mailman/archives/public/
/var/mailman/cgi-bin/
/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/

> It seems you may have run ./configure and make install more than once
> with different --with-var-prefix values and without running make clean
> in between.

 Yes, I did do that, I would have thought that I ran make clean in between, 
but there is a definite
chance I missed it, and just ran make by mistake (Since I ran configure 
several times until I felt I got it right)

Do you suggest I run configure again and recompile?

Tamara



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
To: "Tamara Yoggev" <tyoggev at 013.net>; <Mailman-Users at python.org>
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Wierd Problem creating list


> Tamara Yoggev wrote:
>
>>That's right, only after I fixed (in mailman.conf, which is included in
>>httpd.conf) the following :
>>This is what I originally had with my previous problem "no such list etc."
>>
>>ScriptAlias /mailman/ /var/mailman/cgi-bin/
>>
>>Alias /pipermail/ /var/mailman/archives/public/
>>
>><Directory /var/mailman/archives>
>>
>>Options +FollowSymlinks
>>
>></Directory>
>
>
> There must be a set of wrappers in /var/mailman/cgi-bin/ These are
> probably correct.
>
> Where is the archives/public directory. Is there one in /var/mailman?
>
>
>>I changed this to (mailman is installed in: /usr/local/mailman):
>>
>>
>>
>>ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
>
>
> Does this directory even exist. Is there a set of wrappers it it?
>
>
>>Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/
>>
>><Directory /usr/local/mailman/archives>
>
>
> Also does this directory exist?
>
>
>>Options +FollowSymlinks
>>
>></Directory>
>>
>>After I made this change, which seemed to be reasonable to me, maybe I'm
>>wrong did I see the-
>>
>>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
> Actually, there must be wrappers in /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/ too or
> you wouldn't see the "we hit a bug" message.
>
> It seems you may have run ./configure and make install more than once
> with different --with-var-prefix values and without running make clean
> in between.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> 




From tyoggev at 013.net  Mon Mar 28 22:21:32 2005
From: tyoggev at 013.net (Tamara Yoggev)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:21:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wierd Problem creating list
References: <PC1745200503281218430910c9b613f9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <007501c533d3$bb8ec860$5bbd4155@aish8yaygqb4pb>

Okay, I'll do that, I'll let you know what happens.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
To: "Tamara Yoggev" <tyoggev at 013.net>; <Mailman-Users at python.org>
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Wierd Problem creating list


> Tamara Yoggev wrote:
>
>>All of these folders exist:
>>
>>/var/mailman/archives/public/
>>/var/mailman/cgi-bin/
>>/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
>>/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/
>>
>>> It seems you may have run ./configure and make install more than once
>>> with different --with-var-prefix values and without running make clean
>>> in between.
>>
>> Yes, I did do that, I would have thought that I ran make clean in 
>> between,
>>but there is a definite
>>chance I missed it, and just ran make by mistake (Since I ran configure
>>several times until I felt I got it right)
>>
>>Do you suggest I run configure again and recompile?
>
> That would be the safest. Now, make clean will only remove the last
> installation (which is probably the good one).
>
> If I were you, I would save my mm_cfg.py changes if any and remove
> /var/mailman/ and /usr/local/mailman/ and the 2.1.6b4 source and
> download beta 5 from http://mm.tkikuchi.net/mailman-2.1.6b5.tgz and
> rerun configure and make install.
>
> That way, you'll know exactly what you've got.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> 




From jxstan at jxstanley.com  Tue Mar 29 07:44:16 2005
From: jxstan at jxstanley.com (Jennifer Stanley)
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 21:44:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] digest options
Message-ID: <968FC746-A015-11D9-B30B-00039381A01E@jxstanley.com>

hi.

i manage several discussion lists hosted by Dreamhost. for subscribers 
who prefer digests, there are, it appears, few options for controlling 
or customizing digest delivery. i had a request that digests be sent 
weekly, but it appears that the frequency is dictated only by the size 
of the volume. is there any way to (a) make digest delivery calendar 
based rather than folder-size based? (e.g., sent weekly, daily, or 
whatever, vs. after the folder reaches 30k or 250k or whatever) and/or 
(b) is there any way to allow the subscriber to set these options for 
themselves?

thanks,
jennifer

ps. Dreamhost tech support couldn't help me and recommended that i 
contact you.



From tyoggev at 013.net  Tue Mar 29 15:53:57 2005
From: tyoggev at 013.net (Tamara Yoggev)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 05:53:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wierd Problem creating list
References: <PC1745200503281218430910c9b613f9@msapiro>
	<007501c533d3$bb8ec860$5bbd4155@aish8yaygqb4pb>
Message-ID: <000701c53466$c0dbdc70$48874055@aish8yaygqb4pb>

Thanks Mark,
It works great!

Tamara
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tamara Yoggev" <tyoggev at 013.net>
To: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>; "Tamara Yoggev" <tyoggev at 013.net>; 
<Mailman-Users at python.org>
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Wierd Problem creating list


> Okay, I'll do that, I'll let you know what happens.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
> To: "Tamara Yoggev" <tyoggev at 013.net>; <Mailman-Users at python.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 12:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Wierd Problem creating list
>
>
>> Tamara Yoggev wrote:
>>
>>>All of these folders exist:
>>>
>>>/var/mailman/archives/public/
>>>/var/mailman/cgi-bin/
>>>/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
>>>/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/
>>>
>>>> It seems you may have run ./configure and make install more than once
>>>> with different --with-var-prefix values and without running make clean
>>>> in between.
>>>
>>> Yes, I did do that, I would have thought that I ran make clean in 
>>> between,
>>>but there is a definite
>>>chance I missed it, and just ran make by mistake (Since I ran configure
>>>several times until I felt I got it right)
>>>
>>>Do you suggest I run configure again and recompile?
>>
>> That would be the safest. Now, make clean will only remove the last
>> installation (which is probably the good one).
>>
>> If I were you, I would save my mm_cfg.py changes if any and remove
>> /var/mailman/ and /usr/local/mailman/ and the 2.1.6b4 source and
>> download beta 5 from http://mm.tkikuchi.net/mailman-2.1.6b5.tgz and
>> rerun configure and make install.
>>
>> That way, you'll know exactly what you've got.
>>
>> --
>> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>>
>>
>
>
> 




From darkman at clicqx.com  Tue Mar 29 18:08:03 2005
From: darkman at clicqx.com (Darkman)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 08:08:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] filtering mp3's
Message-ID: <003901c53479$7e0aa080$0200a8c0@box>

I added audio to my filter_mime_types, but does this also filter mp3's? I 
don't think mp3 isa mime type is it?
thanks.



From samantha at congressionaldigest.com  Tue Mar 29 21:03:44 2005
From: samantha at congressionaldigest.com (Samantha)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:03:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help with mailman on bluehost.com
Message-ID: <20050329190149.FUWB4212.imta06a2.registeredsite.com@DELL2400SW>

Our webhosting software, www.bluehost.com <http://www.bluehost.com/>  offers
us mailman.  I want to create multiple mailing lists as a way to send out a
daily e-newsletter publication to some different subscriber lists.

 

However, I am finding it very confusing to use.  Do you have a support
Telephone # that I can call to walk me through it?

 

Please let me know at your earliest convenience.

 

Thanks,

 

Samantha Wiratunga

Managing Editor

Abe's Daily Grant Report

301-634-3155

samantha at congressionaldigest.com

 

 



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 30 04:19:32 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 18:19:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] digest options
In-Reply-To: <968FC746-A015-11D9-B30B-00039381A01E@jxstanley.com>
Message-ID: <PC17452005032918193200150174202f@msapiro>

Jennifer Stanley wrote:
>
>i manage several discussion lists hosted by Dreamhost. for subscribers 
>who prefer digests, there are, it appears, few options for controlling 
>or customizing digest delivery. i had a request that digests be sent 
>weekly, but it appears that the frequency is dictated only by the size 
>of the volume. is there any way to (a) make digest delivery calendar 
>based rather than folder-size based? (e.g., sent weekly, daily, or 
>whatever, vs. after the folder reaches 30k or 250k or whatever) and/or

On the list's admin->Digest options page, set digest_send_periodic to
Yes. This will send a digest at intervals determined by the crontab
entry for 'senddigests'. The default is daily at noon (host time).

You can also cause a digest to be sent 'now' by setting
_send_digest_now to Yes and clicking "Submit Your Changes". Note: 
setting this value performs an immediate action but does not modify
permanent state.

>(b) is there any way to allow the subscriber to set these options for 
>themselves?

No

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 30 04:34:35 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 18:34:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help with mailman on bluehost.com
In-Reply-To: <20050329190149.FUWB4212.imta06a2.registeredsite.com@DELL2400SW>
Message-ID: <PC174520050329183435017175f5b66e@msapiro>

Samantha wrote:

>Our webhosting software, www.bluehost.com <http://www.bluehost.com/>  offers
>us mailman.  I want to create multiple mailing lists as a way to send out a
>daily e-newsletter publication to some different subscriber lists.
>
> 
>
>However, I am finding it very confusing to use.  Do you have a support
>Telephone # that I can call to walk me through it?

The mailman-users at python.org list has no such phone support. This is
something your hosting provider should provide for you. Whether or not
they do, you should see the documentation at
http://www.list.org/docs.html and the FAQ wizard at
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
In particular, article 3.11 in the FAQ discusses one-way or
Announcement lists.

If after consulting your provider and the above documentation you still
have specific questions, ask them here.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Mar 30 03:36:26 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 03:36:26 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Handling multiple subscriptions with
	one 	confirmation
In-Reply-To: <7fad6c77050329101241cbb8cf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7fad6c77050329101241cbb8cf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06200702be6fb2b5db13@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:12 AM -0800 2005-03-29, moto wrench wrote:

>  I'm hosting several related list using MM 2.15 on Freebsd. I would
>  like to  enable members to subscribe to several list with only one
>  confirmation.

	Unless you're manipulating things behind-the-scenes, I don't 
think there's a way to do this with the current version of Mailman.

	Once you are subscribed with a given address, there is a way to 
do certain things to all lists for which that address is subscribed 
(e.g., change your address on all affected lists, set yourself to be 
NOMAIL, etc...), but this only works once you're subscribed.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From hmag at ozemail.com.au  Wed Mar 30 06:24:58 2005
From: hmag at ozemail.com.au (Terry Allen)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 14:24:58 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help with mailman on bluehost.com
In-Reply-To: <20050329190149.FUWB4212.imta06a2.registeredsite.com@DELL2400SW>
References: <20050329190149.FUWB4212.imta06a2.registeredsite.com@DELL2400SW>
Message-ID: <p06210200be6fd9ce3e4e@[203.53.37.182]>

>Our webhosting software, www.bluehost.com <http://www.bluehost.com/>  offers
>us mailman.  I want to create multiple mailing lists as a way to send out a
>daily e-newsletter publication to some different subscriber lists.
>
>However, I am finding it very confusing to use.  Do you have a support
>Telephone # that I can call to walk me through it?
>
>Please let me know at your earliest convenience.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Samantha Wiratunga

Hi again,
	I guess, probably the first thing is - can you explain what 
problems you are having in being confused.
	I personally find the Mailman web interface very intuitive. 
Surely bluehost.com are not providinh a command line interface are 
they? If you are using the web interface, then it's a matter of going 
to http://yourdomain.com/mailman/create & create your list using the 
options. Hope this helps.
-- 

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___________________________________________________________________
hEARd

Postal Address:
	hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd,	Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia
Internet -
	WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com
EMAIL: hmag at ozemail.com.au
Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400
Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400
-----------------------------------------------
Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994
-----------------------------------------------


From stephanie.elsy at gmail.com  Wed Mar 30 06:51:08 2005
From: stephanie.elsy at gmail.com (Stephanie)
Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 22:51:08 -0600
Subject: [exim] Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Exim problem with very slow
	outgoing mail on one list
In-Reply-To: <BE6EB7C1.3B1C%jwblist@olympus.net>
References: <PC17452005032812400201442c8ce4d2@msapiro>
	<BE6EB7C1.3B1C%jwblist@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <6a6160e705032920515282c1cd@mail.gmail.com>

John W. Baxter wrote:
> On 3/28/2005 12:40, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> 
> The environment was earlier in the thread said to be unchanged.  I would ask
> Stephanie whether that environment extends to the local caching name server
> still working?  Changes to firewalling (specifically whether Ident has been
> foolishly dropped (instead of rejected) in a router or firewall, if Exim is
> set up to use it)?

The firewall I use is APF and other than adding some ROKSO spammer IP
addresses and the Spamhaus DROP list to it about once a week, there
hadn't been any changes to it.  I'm not using ident in Exim either. 
Nothing else on the server had changed or been updated except for my
normal maintenance of spam filters for Exim.  Mailman hadn't had any
changes at all for months, I installed the security patch from
February 10th a few days later and that's it.  I use cPanel/WHM for
managing my hosting customers but that hadn't had any updates in a
week, ten days before the mail delivery slowdown started.

As for DNS, Bind seems to be running fine - nameserver issues was the
first thing I thought of and after doing some checking, my server was
using external name servers hosted by my server host.  I changed that
to use my local nameserver but there was no change to the mail
delivery performance for that list.

I did uncover one bit of info today, this list is on a domain that
only hosts one other list (and practically nothing else, one tiny
website with very little activity and both lists do not keep Mailman
archives) and that other list is also having the same slow mail
delivery.  It hadn't had any posts in about a month and a message was
posted today, processed by Mailman and sent to Exim at 16:38 pm EST
today and it took 50 minutes for the message to go out from Exim to
the 226 members on individual mail delivery.  That pretty much the
same delivery stats as on the other larger list.

So now I suspect it's related to that domain.  I'm going to do some
digging in its hosting account settings, see if something got set
oddly for it.  It's one of my domains and for my own, I usually give
them all options and features with very few restrictions but I may
have mucked up something without realizing it.

Jeremy wrote:
> What's your system activity like during this 30 second pause?  If it's
> stuck in kernel or doing lots of disk I/O then I'd suspect the
> filesystem directory structure.....  Can you shut down for long enough
> to copy the exim spool to a new tree and then rename it back into place?

I thought about the spool directory - Exim was set to
"split_spool_directory = yes", had been ever since the server was set
up in fall of 2003.  I changed it to "no", that made things worse (far
too many files in one folder, so I changed it back to "yes".  I'll try
your suggestion this weekend when traffic is lower, thanks much!

-- 
hth,
Stephanie

Links blog: http://alice.ttlg.net/links/
Glenfinnan Web Hosting: http://www.glenfinnan.net/

The machine does not isolate man from the great problems of nature but
plunges him more deeply into them.
-- Antoine De Saint-Exupery [Wind, Sand, Stars]


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Mar 30 16:23:47 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:23:47 +0200
Subject: [exim] Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Exim problem with
	very slow 	outgoing mail on one list
In-Reply-To: <6a6160e705032920515282c1cd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <PC17452005032812400201442c8ce4d2@msapiro>
	<BE6EB7C1.3B1C%jwblist@olympus.net>
	<6a6160e705032920515282c1cd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06200711be7066bf0d83@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:51 PM -0600 2005-03-29, Stephanie wrote:

>  So now I suspect it's related to that domain.  I'm going to do some
>  digging in its hosting account settings, see if something got set
>  oddly for it.

	You may have reverse DNS problems for that IP address, or lame 
delegation problems for the domain, or any number of other 
DNS-related issues.  There are lots of ways to cause things to slow 
down if your DNS is messed up.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From jrc at rodricon.com  Wed Mar 30 16:40:50 2005
From: jrc at rodricon.com (J.R. Constance)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 07:40:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderated group.
In-Reply-To: <PC17452005032808511200198470d23f@msapiro>
References: <PC17452005032808511200198470d23f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06210201be7069a1ec21@[192.168.0.2]>

I checked this and the member_moderation_action is set to Hold. All 
new subscribers are automatically set to be moderated. When I send a 
test message to the list absolutely nothing happens. Nothing shows up 
in the moderator's queue to be approved, no notifications go out that 
a post is awaiting approval. Nothing.

The really odd thing is that when I first set this list up it was 
working fine. Subscribers would post to the list, a notification 
would be sent to the admin that there was a post to be approved, etc. 
At some point a month or so ago, it just quit working. I have checked 
and rechecked the settings, but can't find anything.

J.R.

At 8:51 -0800 3/28/05, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>J.R. Constance wrote:
>
>>I thought I had this
>>working with my list but right now when someone sends a message to
>>the list it just seems to disappear. The admins get no notice that
>>there is a message waiting for approval, and nothing shows up in the
>>queue to be approved.
>
>
>It seems you may have set member_moderation_action to Discard instead
>of Hold.
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From stephanie.elsy at gmail.com  Wed Mar 30 17:45:01 2005
From: stephanie.elsy at gmail.com (Stephanie)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 09:45:01 -0600
Subject: [exim] Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Exim problem with very slow
	outgoing mail on one list
In-Reply-To: <p06200711be7066bf0d83@10.0.1.3>
References: <PC17452005032812400201442c8ce4d2@msapiro>
	<BE6EB7C1.3B1C%jwblist@olympus.net>
	<6a6160e705032920515282c1cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06200711be7066bf0d83@10.0.1.3>
Message-ID: <6a6160e70503300745b648ef6@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:23:47 +0200, Brad Knowles
<brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote:
> At 10:51 PM -0600 2005-03-29, Stephanie wrote:
> 
> >  So now I suspect it's related to that domain.  I'm going to do some
> >  digging in its hosting account settings, see if something got set
> >  oddly for it.
> 
>         You may have reverse DNS problems for that IP address, or lame
> delegation problems for the domain, or any number of other
> DNS-related issues.  There are lots of ways to cause things to slow
> down if your DNS is messed up.

Which would affect ALL mail going out from my server, not just one
list, right?  DNS issues was my first thought when this initially
cropped up but mail from other lists I host and all private mail
continues to fly right on thru at about triple the speed of this one
list's outgoing mail.

And I do have proper rDNS set up, that was something I got done as
soon as the server was set up almost two years ago and nothing has
changed there.

-- 
hth,
Stephanie

Links blog: http://alice.ttlg.net/links/
Glenfinnan Web Hosting: http://www.glenfinnan.net/

The machine does not isolate man from the great problems of nature but
plunges him more deeply into them.
-- Antoine De Saint-Exupery [Wind, Sand, Stars]


From stephanie.elsy at gmail.com  Wed Mar 30 17:50:36 2005
From: stephanie.elsy at gmail.com (Stephanie)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 09:50:36 -0600
Subject: [exim] Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Exim problem with very slow
	outgoing mail on one list
In-Reply-To: <1112170123.9817.3.camel@angua.localnet>
References: <PC17452005032812400201442c8ce4d2@msapiro>
	<BE6EB7C1.3B1C%jwblist@olympus.net>
	<6a6160e705032920515282c1cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<1112170123.9817.3.camel@angua.localnet>
Message-ID: <6a6160e705033007505c36c4da@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 09:08:43 +0100, Nigel Metheringham
<Nigel.Metheringham at dev.intechnology.co.uk> wrote:
> On Tue, 2005-03-29 at 22:51 -0600, Stephanie wrote:
> > The firewall I use is APF and other than adding some ROKSO spammer IP
> > addresses and the Spamhaus DROP list to it about once a week, there
> > hadn't been any changes to it.  I'm not using ident in Exim either.
> 
> If other sites are using ident, and your firewall drops ident packets,
> then you would get a 30 second delay on many outgoing connection
> attempts.

Which would affect all other outgoing mail on my server, right?  The
firewall isn't dropping ident tho and all other list mail and private
mail goes right out at about triple the speed of this one list's
outgoing mail.  The list in question has members from all the major
ISPs, AOL, Earthlink, Comcast, Roadrunner, Verizon and several dozen
small domains as well.  All the mail from that list has the same slow
delivery time, I've watched the queues carefully to see if it's one or
two or even three particular ISPs but it's not, it's all across the
board.

> In that case I would be looking very carefully at DNS - if your
> externally visible DNS for that domain is odd you may find that many
> systems you are sending mail to have a long delay on basic verification
> - which will slow down your outgoing speed.

Yes, that's my thought now too since it's affecting both lists hosted
on the same domain and nothing else.  I'm going to look at that
domain's DNS tonight (have to go to $DayJob now) and see if there's
anything wrong there that may be causing this.

-- 
hth,
Stephanie

Links blog: http://alice.ttlg.net/links/
Glenfinnan Web Hosting: http://www.glenfinnan.net/

The machine does not isolate man from the great problems of nature but
plunges him more deeply into them.
-- Antoine De Saint-Exupery [Wind, Sand, Stars]


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 30 18:03:23 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 08:03:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderated group.
In-Reply-To: <p06210201be7069a1ec21@[192.168.0.2]>
Message-ID: <PC174520050330080323076598bec074@msapiro>

J.R. Constance wrote:
>
>The really odd thing is that when I first set this list up it was 
>working fine. Subscribers would post to the list, a notification 
>would be sent to the admin that there was a post to be approved, etc. 
>At some point a month or so ago, it just quit working. I have checked 
>and rechecked the settings, but can't find anything.

Check article 3.14 in the FAQ
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Do you have other lists that are working. If not, your qrunners may
have stopped.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jrc at rodricon.com  Wed Mar 30 18:24:15 2005
From: jrc at rodricon.com (J.R. Constance)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 08:24:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderated group.
In-Reply-To: 6667
Message-ID: <20050330162415.85206.qmail@web14122.mail.yahoo.com>

Yes, I have several other lists on this server that are working, but they are not moderated lists. Emails sent to those lists automatically are sent out to all subscribers. This is the only moderated list where emails sent to the list have to be reviewed and approved before going out to the list members.

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:J.R. Constance wrote:
>
>The really odd thing is that when I first set this list up it was 
>working fine. Subscribers would post to the list, a notification 
>would be sent to the admin that there was a post to be approved, etc. 
>At some point a month or so ago, it just quit working. I have checked 
>and rechecked the settings, but can't find anything.

Check article 3.14 in the FAQ
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Do you have other lists that are working. If not, your qrunners may
have stopped.

--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan







From msapiro at value.net  Wed Mar 30 18:36:03 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 08:36:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderated group.
In-Reply-To: <20050330162415.85206.qmail@web14122.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17452005033008360309375eee0ecc@msapiro>

J.R. Constance wrote:

>Yes, I have several other lists on this server that are working, but they are not moderated lists. Emails sent to those lists automatically are sent out to all subscribers. This is the only moderated list where emails sent to the list have to be reviewed and approved before going out to the list members.
>

You may have already done some or all of this, but I would:

Check the admindb page to make sure there are no messages there and
it's not just that the moderator notices that are lost.

Check the MTA aliases and MTA logs to be sure the messages are actually
delivered to mailman.

Check all the Mailman logs

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jdennis at redhat.com  Wed Mar 30 19:08:40 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:08:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] digest options
In-Reply-To: <968FC746-A015-11D9-B30B-00039381A01E@jxstanley.com>
References: <968FC746-A015-11D9-B30B-00039381A01E@jxstanley.com>
Message-ID: <1112202520.28536.7.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Mon, 2005-03-28 at 21:44 -0800, Jennifer Stanley wrote:
> hi.
> 
> i manage several discussion lists hosted by Dreamhost. for subscribers 
> who prefer digests, there are, it appears, few options for controlling 
> or customizing digest delivery. i had a request that digests be sent 
> weekly, but it appears that the frequency is dictated only by the size 
> of the volume. is there any way to (a) make digest delivery calendar 
> based rather than folder-size based? (e.g., sent weekly, daily, or 
> whatever, vs. after the folder reaches 30k or 250k or whatever) and/or 
> (b) is there any way to allow the subscriber to set these options for 
> themselves?

You can set it to daily delivery if its size threshold has not been
reached. Its the 5th option on the digest page labeled "Should a digest
be dispatched daily when the size threshold isn't reached?". 

Unfortunately you cannot select the granularity of the of the interval.
If you had command line access there are other options, but hosting
companies for obvious reasons do not permit this.

The digest delivery "event" is a property of the list, not a subscriber
preference, although I can see the value in that, its not currently
supported.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Mar 30 19:22:56 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 19:22:56 +0200
Subject: [exim] Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Exim problem with
	very slow 	outgoing mail on one list
In-Reply-To: <6a6160e705033007505c36c4da@mail.gmail.com>
References: <PC17452005032812400201442c8ce4d2@msapiro>
	<BE6EB7C1.3B1C%jwblist@olympus.net>
	<6a6160e705032920515282c1cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<1112170123.9817.3.camel@angua.localnet>
	<6a6160e705033007505c36c4da@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06200712be709089d8fc@[10.0.1.3]>

At 9:50 AM -0600 2005-03-30, Stephanie wrote:

>>  If other sites are using ident, and your firewall drops ident packets,
>>  then you would get a 30 second delay on many outgoing connection
>>  attempts.
>
>  Which would affect all other outgoing mail on my server, right?

	If the problem was reverse DNS or ident, or somesuch, then it 
should affect everything on the same server.  Unless you're serving 
that data inside of different virtual servers, different instances of 
the same software (or different software), etc....

>>  In that case I would be looking very carefully at DNS - if your
>>  externally visible DNS for that domain is odd you may find that many
>>  systems you are sending mail to have a long delay on basic verification
>>  - which will slow down your outgoing speed.
>
>  Yes, that's my thought now too since it's affecting both lists hosted
>  on the same domain and nothing else.  I'm going to look at that
>  domain's DNS tonight (have to go to $DayJob now) and see if there's
>  anything wrong there that may be causing this.

	It's starting to look more like a DNS problem that is specific to 
that domain, but not necessarily across the entire machine.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From heather at madrone.com  Wed Mar 30 19:45:51 2005
From: heather at madrone.com (Heather Madrone)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 09:45:51 -0800
Subject: [exim] Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Exim problem with very
	slow 	outgoing mail on one list
In-Reply-To: <6a6160e70503300745b648ef6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <PC17452005032812400201442c8ce4d2@msapiro>
	<BE6EB7C1.3B1C%jwblist@olympus.net>
	<6a6160e705032920515282c1cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06200711be7066bf0d83@10.0.1.3>
	<6a6160e70503300745b648ef6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06210223be709459e77b@[192.168.123.100]>

At 9:45 AM -0600 3/30/05, Stephanie wrote:
>And I do have proper rDNS set up, that was something I got done as
>soon as the server was set up almost two years ago and nothing has
>changed there.

I'd check it though, because it's possible that someone else broke it
for you.  Reverse DNS lookups to my server were failing last week
because someone else had an error and so the lookup was ambiguous.

If you go to <www.dnsstuff.com> or a similar site, you can see what
the world sees.

If you're having reverse DNS problems, you should also have a lot of
refused deliveries for those lists, and it doesn't sound like you do.

-- 
Heather Madrone  (heather at madrone.com)  http://www.madrone.com

A rolling stone gathers no mass.


From jrc at rodricon.com  Wed Mar 30 20:39:33 2005
From: jrc at rodricon.com (J.R. Constance)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 10:39:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderated group.
In-Reply-To: 6667
Message-ID: <20050330183934.93698.qmail@web14125.mail.yahoo.com>

Mark,
 
Hmmm. I'm using an installation of Mailman on hosted space at Jumpdomain.com.  I did check the admin interface and there are no pending requests for moderators, and nothing in the archives.
 
To be honest, I'm not sure I have access to those other files to review. My access through jumpdomain is restricted to files I can see via their control panel. FTP access gets me into the public_html directory, and I don't have telnet access.

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
J.R. Constance wrote:

>Yes, I have several other lists on this server that are working, but they are not moderated lists. Emails sent to those lists automatically are sent out to all subscribers. This is the only moderated list where emails sent to the list have to be reviewed and approved before going out to the list members.
>

You may have already done some or all of this, but I would:

Check the admindb page to make sure there are no messages there and
it's not just that the moderator notices that are lost.

Check the MTA aliases and MTA logs to be sure the messages are actually
delivered to mailman.

Check all the Mailman logs

--
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan






From motowrench at gmail.com  Wed Mar 30 22:34:12 2005
From: motowrench at gmail.com (moto wrench)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 12:34:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Handling multiple subscriptions with one
	confirmation
In-Reply-To: <p06200702be6fb2b5db13@10.0.1.3>
References: <7fad6c77050329101241cbb8cf@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06200702be6fb2b5db13@10.0.1.3>
Message-ID: <7fad6c7705033012343633bc24@mail.gmail.com>

> >  I'm hosting several related list using MM 2.15 on Freebsd. I would
> >  like to  enable members to subscribe to several list with only one
> >  confirmation.
> 
>         Unless you're manipulating things behind-the-scenes, I don't
> think there's a way to do this with the current version of Mailman.
> 
>         Once you are subscribed with a given address, there is a way to
> do certain things to all lists for which that address is subscribed
> (e.g., change your address on all affected lists, set yourself to be
> NOMAIL, etc...), but this only works once you're subscribed.

I realize this would take some work but I think it might be doable
using code from MM. Here is my idea, please let me know what you
think,

Create:
1) pop email account to recieve mulit-sub confirmations and bounces.
2) python script to generate and send the confirmation email
3) python script to check the multi-sub email account and process the
confirmations.

The python scirpts would import as much relevant code from MM. I'm not
familiar with the confirmation process but I'm guessing when a
confirmation is sent it is recored someplace?


From joe at wacondatrader.com  Wed Mar 30 22:39:12 2005
From: joe at wacondatrader.com (Joe Sporleder)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 14:39:12 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing Auto-responder subject
Message-ID: <7ab78794ed0efa30f46ee6fec7dac8af@wacondatrader.com>

I am using Mailman 2.1.2 that came with my MacOS X 10.3 Server. When 
using the auto-responder, it has this format in the subject field

"Auto-response for your message to the "listname" mailing list".

Is there an easy way to change what the Auto-response does to the 
subject? I would like it to make the subject header be:
RE: sender's subject.


Thanks.

Joe



From listen at jan-kellermann.de  Wed Mar 30 23:38:49 2005
From: listen at jan-kellermann.de (Jan Kellermann)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 23:38:49 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] prob: Downgrade detected,
	from version 0x20200a0 to version 0x20106b5
Message-ID: <009b01c53570$e0972be0$4301a8c0@marx>

Hi!

Certainly you may help:
we installed 2.2 some month ago and want now update to the current
1.6-version.
the 2.2-version came from the cvs-rep on sf.net

while installing we got the message
--------------
Downgrade detected, from version 0x20200a0 to version 0x20106b5
This is probably not safe.
Exiting.
--------------

Thank for help
Jan



From stephanie.elsy at gmail.com  Thu Mar 31 01:00:01 2005
From: stephanie.elsy at gmail.com (Stephanie)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 17:00:01 -0600
Subject: [exim] Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Exim problem with very slow
	outgoing mail on one list
In-Reply-To: <p06210223be709459e77b@192.168.123.100>
References: <PC17452005032812400201442c8ce4d2@msapiro>
	<BE6EB7C1.3B1C%jwblist@olympus.net>
	<6a6160e705032920515282c1cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06200711be7066bf0d83@10.0.1.3>
	<6a6160e70503300745b648ef6@mail.gmail.com>
	<p06210223be709459e77b@192.168.123.100>
Message-ID: <6a6160e705033015003cb27ded@mail.gmail.com>

Heather Madrone wrote:
> 
> If you go to <www.dnsstuff.com> or a similar site, you can see what
> the world sees.

Aha! I had to run out of the house this morning so I didn't even think
of trying DNSstuff!  Thanks for the reminder and since it shows "No
PTR records exist for brillig.net" for PTR lookup, obviously there is
something wrong there.  I'll fix that this as soon as I get home!

> If you're having reverse DNS problems, you should also have a lot of
> refused deliveries for those lists, and it doesn't sound like you do.

They probably got recorded as bounces - and it may be part of the
reason there's been some problem with deliveries to the 4 or 5 Verizon
members (which I had written off as Verizon's bugginess).

-- 
hth,
Stephanie

Links blog: http://alice.ttlg.net/links/
Glenfinnan Web Hosting: http://www.glenfinnan.net/

The machine does not isolate man from the great problems of nature but
plunges him more deeply into them.
-- Antoine De Saint-Exupery [Wind, Sand, Stars]


From rejean at interfree.ca  Thu Mar 31 02:14:03 2005
From: rejean at interfree.ca (Rejean Proulx)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 19:14:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permissions On Mailman
In-Reply-To: <1467656887.20050330185314@interfree.ca>
References: <E1DGmrl-0000d8-00@interfree.ca>
	<1467656887.20050330185314@interfree.ca>
Message-ID: <199782139.20050330191403@interfree.ca>

I've managed to mess up the permissions on mailman as a result of a
typo.  who should own /var/log/mailman?  I am getting the error below.
 If it isn't permissions on logs, I'd appreciate help in determining
 what I need to fix.  I am running Mailman on Debian.  I must admit, I
 feel rather foolish.

st recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 554, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 366, in main
    check_for_site_list()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 276, in check_for_site_list
    sitelist = MailList(sitelistname, lock=0)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 128, in __init__
    self.Load()
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 593, in Load
    dict, e = self.__load(file)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 559, in __load
    fp = open(dbfile)
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck'
invoke-rc.d: initscript mailman, action "start" failed.

interfree:/#


__________ NOD32 1.1041 (20050330) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.nod32.com


===8<===========End of original message text===========


-- 
Best regards,
 Rejean                            mailto:rejean at interfree.ca


_______________________________________________
Speakup mailing list
Speakup at braille.uwo.ca
http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup

__________ NOD32 1.1041 (20050330) Information __________

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.nod32.com


===8<===========End of original message text===========


-- 
Best regards,
 Rejean                            mailto:rejean at interfree.ca



From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Thu Mar 31 02:16:55 2005
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 09:16:55 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] prob: Downgrade detected, from version 0x20200a0
	to version 0x20106b5
In-Reply-To: <009b01c53570$e0972be0$4301a8c0@marx>
References: <009b01c53570$e0972be0$4301a8c0@marx>
Message-ID: <424B4177.5090604@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Jan Kellermann wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> Certainly you may help:
> we installed 2.2 some month ago and want now update to the current
> 1.6-version.
> the 2.2-version came from the cvs-rep on sf.net
> 
> while installing we got the message
> --------------
> Downgrade detected, from version 0x20200a0 to version 0x20106b5
> This is probably not safe.
> Exiting.
> --------------

Try find Version.py in your <prefix>/Mailman directory and edit like:

VERSION = "2.2a0" -> "2.1.4"
MINOR_REV = 2     -> 1
MICRO_REV = 0     -> 4
REL_LEVEL = ALPHA -> FINAL

Then install 2.1.6b5 from http://mm.tkikuchi.net/mailman-2.1.6b5.tgz

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar 31 03:57:37 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 17:57:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing Auto-responder subject
In-Reply-To: <7ab78794ed0efa30f46ee6fec7dac8af@wacondatrader.com>
Message-ID: <PC1745200503301757370625ac50e336@msapiro>

Joe Sporleder wrote:

>I am using Mailman 2.1.2 that came with my MacOS X 10.3 Server. When 
>using the auto-responder, it has this format in the subject field
>
>"Auto-response for your message to the "listname" mailing list".
>
>Is there an easy way to change what the Auto-response does to the 
>subject? I would like it to make the subject header be:
>RE: sender's subject.

I don't know. The level of difficulty depends on your facility with
Python and your access to the Mailman source. You'd have to change the
code in Mailman/Handlers/Replybot.py.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar 31 04:18:33 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 18:18:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permissions On Mailman
In-Reply-To: <199782139.20050330191403@interfree.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1745200503301818330031e339cdc0@msapiro>

Rejean Proulx wrote:

>I've managed to mess up the permissions on mailman as a result of a
>typo.  who should own /var/log/mailman?  I am getting the error below.
> If it isn't permissions on logs, I'd appreciate help in determining
> what I need to fix.  I am running Mailman on Debian.  I must admit, I
> feel rather foolish.

In most cases Mailman's directories should be drwxrwsr-x and be group
'mailman'. I'm not sure if the owner is important, but it's often root.

Your trace shows:

>IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck'

mailmanctl is trying to read the configuration for the 'mailman' site
list and is unable to do so. This is where the permission issue is.

Have you tried running

bin/check_perms

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar 31 04:39:24 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 18:39:24 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderated group.
In-Reply-To: <20050330183934.93698.qmail@web14125.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1745200503301839240875027ca163@msapiro>

J.R. Constance wrote:
> 
>Hmmm. I'm using an installation of Mailman on hosted space at Jumpdomain.com.  I did check the admin interface and there are no pending requests for moderators, and nothing in the archives.
> 

I think you need to get help from Jumpdomain.com. It really looks like
there is a problem somewhere involving more than just your list
settings (although you could set up a small, moderated test list and
see if that works - even if it does though, it doesn't help solve your
problem).

You need to be sure posts to the list are getting to Mailman. Do the
other addresses work? If you e-mail directly to the listname-bounces
address, do you get an unrecognized bounce. If you e-mail
listname-owner do the owners/moderators get the message. If you e-mail
listname-request, do you get a response from mailman? If these things
don't work, then maybe the MTA aliases for this list are messed up. If
they do, it still doesn't rule this out for the posting address, but
it means it's less likely to be an MTA problem.

Beyond that, you need to be able to see the mailman logs or at least
get the provider to look at them for you. Otherwise, you'll never
figure out what's going on.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From xavi.herrero at upf.edu  Thu Mar 31 11:10:25 2005
From: xavi.herrero at upf.edu (Xavih)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:10:25 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non moderated lists
Message-ID: <00d601c535d1$79dd2420$362191c1@upf.es>

Good morning!

It's only few time we have mailman list in use, so I'm new in mailman administration, and I have a request from users I don't know how to solve.

As you say in the advise of "Mailman-Users -- Mailman mailing list management users":
Please note that posts from non-subscribers will require a human moderator to examine them to determine that they are on-topic and appropriate for the list, and this may cause the message to be delayed by hours or perhaps longer, depending on how busy the moderators are.

There is any way to create non moderated list (or open list)?
I would like to have a list where anyone can post mails whithout pass though the filter of the moderator, it is possible?
Thanks in advance,

Xavih

From Nigel.Metheringham at dev.intechnology.co.uk  Wed Mar 30 10:08:43 2005
From: Nigel.Metheringham at dev.intechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 09:08:43 +0100
Subject: [exim] Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Exim problem with very slow
	outgoing mail on one list
In-Reply-To: <6a6160e705032920515282c1cd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <PC17452005032812400201442c8ce4d2@msapiro>
	<BE6EB7C1.3B1C%jwblist@olympus.net>
	<6a6160e705032920515282c1cd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1112170123.9817.3.camel@angua.localnet>

On Tue, 2005-03-29 at 22:51 -0600, Stephanie wrote:
> The firewall I use is APF and other than adding some ROKSO spammer IP
> addresses and the Spamhaus DROP list to it about once a week, there
> hadn't been any changes to it.  I'm not using ident in Exim either.

If other sites are using ident, and your firewall drops ident packets,
then you would get a 30 second delay on many outgoing connection
attempts.

> I did uncover one bit of info today, this list is on a domain that
> only hosts one other list (and practically nothing else, one tiny
> website with very little activity and both lists do not keep Mailman
> archives) and that other list is also having the same slow mail
> delivery.  It hadn't had any posts in about a month and a message was
> posted today, processed by Mailman and sent to Exim at 16:38 pm EST
> today and it took 50 minutes for the message to go out from Exim to
> the 226 members on individual mail delivery.  That pretty much the
> same delivery stats as on the other larger list.

In that case I would be looking very carefully at DNS - if your
externally visible DNS for that domain is odd you may find that many
systems you are sending mail to have a long delay on basic verification
- which will slow down your outgoing speed.

Look at your log entries and work out where the delay is - if there is a
huge delay between reception and first delivery then the problem is
likely somewhere in your routing.  If the delay is instead spread out
between deliveries then there is something, most likely DNS related,
thats slowing down the other systems taking mail from you.

	Nigel.

-- 
[ Nigel Metheringham           Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ]
[ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ]




From ph10 at cus.cam.ac.uk  Wed Mar 30 17:59:15 2005
From: ph10 at cus.cam.ac.uk (Philip Hazel)
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 16:59:15 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [exim] Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman/Exim problem with very slow
	outgoing mail on one list
In-Reply-To: <6a6160e705033007505c36c4da@mail.gmail.com>
References: <PC17452005032812400201442c8ce4d2@msapiro>
	<BE6EB7C1.3B1C%jwblist@olympus.net>
	<6a6160e705032920515282c1cd@mail.gmail.com>
	<1112170123.9817.3.camel@angua.localnet>
	<6a6160e705033007505c36c4da@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SOC.4.61.0503301658360.23882@draco.cus.cam.ac.uk>

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Stephanie wrote:

> > If other sites are using ident, and your firewall drops ident packets,
> > then you would get a 30 second delay on many outgoing connection
> > attempts.
> 
> Which would affect all other outgoing mail on my server, right?  

No, only outgoing mail to sites that use ident.

-- 
Philip Hazel            University of Cambridge Computing Service,
ph10 at cus.cam.ac.uk      Cambridge, England. Phone: +44 1223 334714.
Get the Exim 4 book:    http://www.uit.co.uk/exim-book


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Mar 31 14:48:52 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:48:52 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non moderated lists
In-Reply-To: <00d601c535d1$79dd2420$362191c1@upf.es>
References: <00d601c535d1$79dd2420$362191c1@upf.es>
Message-ID: <p06200720be71a1e2ea30@[10.0.1.3]>

At 11:10 AM +0200 2005-03-31, Xavih wrote:

>  There is any way to create non moderated list (or open list)?

	Sure.  Create a list, and don't turn on the "moderate by default" 
options, or anything else that would cause your users to be moderated.

	Take a look at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp> 
and see the sorts of things that you want to *avoid* doing.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Mar 31 17:44:03 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 07:44:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non moderated lists
In-Reply-To: <00d601c535d1$79dd2420$362191c1@upf.es>
Message-ID: <PC1745200503310744030937aa2aec0c@msapiro>

Xavih wrote:
>
>There is any way to create non moderated list (or open list)?
>I would like to have a list where anyone can post mails whithout pass though the filter of the moderator, it is possible?


On the list's admin->Privacy options...->Sender filters page set
generic_nonmember_action to Accept.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ICHRONSTUDIO at aol.com  Thu Mar 31 20:43:58 2005
From: ICHRONSTUDIO at aol.com (ICHRONSTUDIO at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 13:43:58 EST
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A funny thing happened while using mail man.
Message-ID: <19c.305cfee7.2f7d9eee@aol.com>

I incorrectly set up my newsletter.  Instead of being announce only it  
allowed 400 people to reply to all.  shortly there after people emails were  filled 
with hundred of "please stop sending me email".  If no one had  replied 
there'd be no mess, but that's the funny part.   The not funny  part is I might get 
fired over this. its has been three day and the emails wont  stop.  We 
removed the database, we stopped using mail man, and we prayed a  little that it 
would fade.  However it hasn't yet.
 
I now know how to set it up as announce only.  I even know how to put  my 
database on with out sending out a thank you for subscribing mail.  How  do I 
stop the continuing replies?
 
Sorry to bother you about this, it was my own ignorance that put me here,  
but I was hoping that you might be able to suggest sometihng to get me  out.
                                                            Jo  Vasquez
                                                           
empireeventscenter.com