From phildurning at yahoo.com  Wed Jun  1 00:03:15 2005
From: phildurning at yahoo.com (phil durning)
Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 15:03:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] is it possible to have the admin get approval email
	whenever new email to list is sent or whenever a new user
	subscribes?
Message-ID: <20050531220315.18678.qmail@web60525.mail.yahoo.com>

is it possible to have the admin get approval email whenever new email to list is sent or whenever
a new user subscribes?


		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/


From lars at aknet.is  Wed Jun  1 00:13:02 2005
From: lars at aknet.is (Lars H. Andersen)
Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 23:13:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I am new to this mailing list
Message-ID: <20050531231304.96F6D7AC54@mail.internet.is>


Although I have been administering a mailman mailing list for many years, I
am new to this list. And there is a specific reason why I am here.

Until now we haven't used the archive option but there is a desire on the
list that we start doing so.

How do people approach the archive?

N?n?ska ehf
Lars H. Andersen
Vesturg?tu 24B
IS-300  Akranesi
s?mi/tel. +354 431 4539
www.aknet.is/~lars




From bob at teammoto.com.au  Wed Jun  1 01:52:33 2005
From: bob at teammoto.com.au (Bob Donovan - TeamMoto)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 09:52:33 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I need to pay for some changes
In-Reply-To: <20050531231304.96F6D7AC54@mail.internet.is>
Message-ID: <20050531235234.4B2411E4003@bag.python.org>

Hi, 

I'm new to this list, so if this question is inappropriate, please forgive
me.

I have just installed mailman and set up my list. Its working great.

I do need someone with a bit more time and technical nous than me to make a
few changes to the code to change what happens when a member tries to
subscribe.

Does anyone know a programmer in Brisbane Australia who is available for a
few hours work?

If anyone wants to contact me directly, my email is bob at teammoto.com.au

Once again, sorry if this is off-topic.

cheers
 
Bob
 
 
 
Bob Donovan
Financial Controller
TeamMoto Motorcycles
07 3380 2204




From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  1 01:53:57 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 16:53:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] change email_host in all lists
In-Reply-To: <429C5DA2.8040400@rz.uni-hildesheim.de>
Message-ID: <PC174020050531165357012529ca0e36@msapiro>

Meike Reichle wrote:
>
>we just changed our email domain so I now have to change the email_host
>entry in all our mailing lists. I adjusted the DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST in
>mm_cfg.py. But I also have to change that value in all existing lists. I
>know this can be done using the web interface but we have quite a lot of
>lists, so I would very much prefer to do this on commandline. I checked
>and found out that can be done using config_list and a file containing
>just this one setting. So I created a file containing the line
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'my new domain' however when doing config_list -i
>this_file -c I got the error "attribute "DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST" ignored".
>
>Does this attribut have a different name within the already created
>lists or is this just because I used the -c flag? I also tried
>email_host but with the same effect ("attribute "email_host" ignored").

As Jim Tittsler already pointed out, yes - the list attribute is
host_name.

But what you really want is bin/fix_url.py which is a withlist script
designed to fix lists after changes to DEFAULT_URL_HOST and
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST. Just run bin/fix_url.py stand alone for
instructions.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  1 02:43:15 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 17:43:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] is it possible to have the admin get approval
	emailwhenever new email to list is sent or whenever a new
	usersubscribes?
In-Reply-To: <20050531220315.18678.qmail@web60525.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020050531174315045383f8d7b4@msapiro>

phil durning wrote:

>is it possible to have the admin get approval email whenever new email to list is sent or whenever
>a new user subscribes?

For approval of all e-mail, go to Privacy options...->Sender filters
and set default_member_moderation to Yes and member_moderation_action
to Hold. Then go to Membership Management...->Membership List and set
everyone's moderation bit On.

For subscription approval, go to Privacy options...->Subscription rules
and set subscribe_policy to either Require approval or Confirm and
approve.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sean at sweetbourbon.com  Wed Jun  1 14:17:17 2005
From: sean at sweetbourbon.com (Sean)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:17:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] digest threshold problem
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005052717462909219604af36@msapiro>
References: <PC17402005052717462909219604af36@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0506010815070.76418@seyyav.pair.com>

Thanks Mark.  Of course the incident has not repeated itself so it looks
like it was probably human error that caused the digest to be sent.

Sean

On Fri, 27 May 2005, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Sean wrote:
>
> >Can anyone point me to the code that checks the digest size for
> >the daily senddigests cron job?   Much appreciated.
>
> The daily senddigests cron job does not do any checking of digest size.
> The Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py handler is responsible for queueing
> the digest to be sent when it adds a post that puts the digest mailbox
> over the threshhold size.
>
> The periodic job (cron/senddigests) attempts to send a digest only for
> lists for which the digest_send_periodic attribute is true. The code is
>
>     for listname in listnames:
>         mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0)
>         if mlist.digest_send_periodic:
>             mlist.Lock()
>             try:
>                 mlist.send_digest_now()
>                 mlist.Save()
>             finally:
>                 mlist.Unlock()
>
> It's hard to see how that could possibly send a digest for a list for
> which digest_send_periodic is not true.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
>


From jean-philippe.giola at st.com  Wed Jun  1 15:16:17 2005
From: jean-philippe.giola at st.com (Jean-Philippe GIOLA)
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:16:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + database
Message-ID: <429DB521.7000409@st.com>

Hi all!

Is there an option in mailman in order to fill in a database with mail 
when they are sent ?
Or I have to write a php script witch will parse a mbox file for fill in 
my database...!

reguards

-- 
Cordialement,
Jean-Philippe Giola - 6577




From ricardo at americasnet.com  Wed Jun  1 15:44:14 2005
From: ricardo at americasnet.com (Ricardo Kleemann)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 06:44:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (re-post)  smtp failures, please help
Message-ID: <024b01c566af$ffc70470$8732170a@LA.FRD.DIRECTV.COM>

Hi...

I posted this yesterday but I have received no replies... can someone help
me out?

Thanks
Ricardo



> Hi,
>
> I'm getting errors in the smtp-failure log when a message is attempted to
be
> delivered to the list owner.
>
> This is the error I see:
>
> SMTP session failure: 517, Syntax error. msgid: <...>
>
> What exactly is this? How can I determine what the session error was?
>
> This happens every time I send a message to the list, the message then I
> guess is being forwarded to the -owner address (which is my own) but then
it
> fails with that error.
>
> Any help is appreciated.
>
> Thanks
> Ricardo
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ricardo%40americasnet.com
>
> Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>



From sythos at sythos.net  Wed Jun  1 15:50:27 2005
From: sythos at sythos.net (Sythos)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 15:50:27 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (re-post)  smtp failures, please help
In-Reply-To: <024b01c566af$ffc70470$8732170a@LA.FRD.DIRECTV.COM>
References: <024b01c566af$ffc70470$8732170a@LA.FRD.DIRECTV.COM>
Message-ID: <20050601135027.GA3214@sythos.net>

On Wed, Jun 01, 2005 at 06:44:14AM -0700, Ricardo Kleemann wrote:
> I posted this yesterday but I have received no replies... can someone help
> me out?

You must supply more info...
OS? Mailman version? Distro? Python version? MTA (name and version)?

Regards

-- 

Sythos - http://www.sythos.net
  ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
  /\                        - against M$ attachments


From ricardo at americasnet.com  Wed Jun  1 16:43:02 2005
From: ricardo at americasnet.com (Ricardo Kleemann)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 07:43:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (re-post)  smtp failures, please help
References: <024b01c566af$ffc70470$8732170a@LA.FRD.DIRECTV.COM>
	<20050601135027.GA3214@sythos.net>
Message-ID: <02b501c566b8$368e05a0$8732170a@LA.FRD.DIRECTV.COM>

Thank you.

I'm running on linux (on this server, an older SuSE version). Mailman 2.1.4,
Python 2.3, the mta is courier.

I've been using mailman for quite some time and it has always seemed to work
without problems.

But I'm having trouble with messages being sent to the list owner
(administrator) for a moderated list. The error I see in the log is

SMTP session failure: 517, Syntax error. msgid: <...>

So for example I have a list called "ricardo1", and it is configured as
moderated. When I send an email to the list, it is forwarded on to the list
administrator.

In mailman's logs, I see:

---- smtp log ------
Jun 01 07:02:56 2005 (22702)
<mailman.484.1117634575.22700.ricardo1 at lists.americasnet.com> smtp for 1
recips, completed in 0.154 seconds
Jun 01 07:03:15 2005 (22702)
<mailman.484.1117634575.22700.ricardo1 at lists.americasnet.com> smtp for 2
recips, completed in 16.207 seconds

---- smtp-failure log ----
Jun 01 07:03:06 2005 (22702) SMTP session failure: 517, Syntax error.,
msgid: <mailman.484.1117634575.22700.ricardo1 at lists.americasnet.com>
Jun 01 07:03:15 2005 (22702) SMTP session failure: 517, Syntax error.,
msgid: <mailman.484.1117634575.22700.ricardo1 at lists.americasnet.com>

I also tested this by sending a message directly to the list owner
(ricardo1-owner at lists.americasnet.com)

and I get the exact same error...

The list is configured with the owner/administrator as my own email,
ricardo at americasnet.com

Is there a way I can manually run the mailman program with debug to try and
see what's going on in the smtp session ?

Thanks
Ricardo

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sythos" <sythos at sythos.net>
To: "Ricardo Kleemann" <ricardo at americasnet.com>
Cc: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 6:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] (re-post) smtp failures, please help


> On Wed, Jun 01, 2005 at 06:44:14AM -0700, Ricardo Kleemann wrote:
> > I posted this yesterday but I have received no replies... can someone
help
> > me out?
>
> You must supply more info...
> OS? Mailman version? Distro? Python version? MTA (name and version)?
>
> Regards
>
> -- 
>
> Sythos - http://www.sythos.net
>   ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
>   /\                        - against M$ attachments
>



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  1 17:03:07 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:03:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (re-post)  smtp failures, please help
In-Reply-To: <02b501c566b8$368e05a0$8732170a@LA.FRD.DIRECTV.COM>
Message-ID: <PC17402005060108030701094869a814@msapiro>

Ricardo Kleemann wrote:
>
>I've been using mailman for quite some time and it has always seemed to work
>without problems.
>
>But I'm having trouble with messages being sent to the list owner
>(administrator) for a moderated list. The error I see in the log is
>
>SMTP session failure: 517, Syntax error. msgid: <...>
>
>So for example I have a list called "ricardo1", and it is configured as
>moderated. When I send an email to the list, it is forwarded on to the list
>administrator.
>
>In mailman's logs, I see:
>
>---- smtp log ------
>Jun 01 07:02:56 2005 (22702)
><mailman.484.1117634575.22700.ricardo1 at lists.americasnet.com> smtp for 1
>recips, completed in 0.154 seconds
>Jun 01 07:03:15 2005 (22702)
><mailman.484.1117634575.22700.ricardo1 at lists.americasnet.com> smtp for 2
>recips, completed in 16.207 seconds
>
>---- smtp-failure log ----
>Jun 01 07:03:06 2005 (22702) SMTP session failure: 517, Syntax error.,
>msgid: <mailman.484.1117634575.22700.ricardo1 at lists.americasnet.com>
>Jun 01 07:03:15 2005 (22702) SMTP session failure: 517, Syntax error.,
>msgid: <mailman.484.1117634575.22700.ricardo1 at lists.americasnet.com>
>
>I also tested this by sending a message directly to the list owner
>(ricardo1-owner at lists.americasnet.com)
>
>and I get the exact same error...


Is it only the one list, or is it all moderated lists?

If only the one, I suspect some issue with the
ricardo1-owner at lists.americasnet.com alias in courier?

What happens to -owner mail for other, non-moderated lists?



>The list is configured with the owner/administrator as my own email,
>ricardo at americasnet.com
>
>Is there a way I can manually run the mailman program with debug to try and
>see what's going on in the smtp session ?

See http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-May/044742.html
for a way to replicate Mailman's sending of mail. Try using

rcpts = ['ricardo1-owner at lists.americasnet.com']

in the script in that post, but I doubt you'll get much more
information than you already get.

You might be able to use some sort of packet sniffer to see the actual
SMTP interaction between Mailman and courier. If it comes to that.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ricardo at americasnet.com  Wed Jun  1 17:23:08 2005
From: ricardo at americasnet.com (Ricardo Kleemann)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:23:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (re-post)  smtp failures, please help
References: <PC17402005060108030701094869a814@msapiro>
Message-ID: <02f101c566bd$d1064bb0$8732170a@LA.FRD.DIRECTV.COM>

Thanks for the pointers, Mark.

>
> Is it only the one list, or is it all moderated lists?

Well I reconfigured the list so that members are not moderated, just to
test... no difference.

Now I'm actually just simply sending email directly to the -owner address,
and I continue to get this syntax error.

>
> If only the one, I suspect some issue with the
> ricardo1-owner at lists.americasnet.com alias in courier?

Well, the fact that the mailman log is reporting an error is in itself an
indication that the alias is piping the message to mailman. This is what the
alias is doing:
"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner ricardo1"

so mailman processes the message, and then reports the syntax error.

>
> What happens to -owner mail for other, non-moderated lists?

I just tried sending to another list "test", to test-owner... and to my
surprise, it fails with the same error! :-/   This means to me that all my
lists are failing for the -owner address.

> >Is there a way I can manually run the mailman program with debug to try
and
> >see what's going on in the smtp session ?
>
> See http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-May/044742.html
> for a way to replicate Mailman's sending of mail. Try using
>
> rcpts = ['ricardo1-owner at lists.americasnet.com']
>
> in the script in that post, but I doubt you'll get much more
> information than you already get.

Thanks... but does mailman really insert the -owner address in that
transaction, or does it already lookup who the owner is for the list and
insert that address?

Anyone else have any ideas?

Ricardo



From paul.lewis at st-annes.ox.ac.uk  Wed Jun  1 18:42:33 2005
From: paul.lewis at st-annes.ox.ac.uk (Paul Lewis)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 17:42:33 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Clear Archives
Message-ID: <20050601164211.9CE7F1E4006@bag.python.org>

Hi,

I user mailman to run a couple of mailing lists for my student union, and as
it's coming to the end of the year, wanted to clear the archives to start
afresh next year. 

Can anyone tell me how I can go about doing this?

Cheers,

Paul

---
Paul Lewis (paul.lewis at st-annes.ox.ac.uk)
JCR Computing Rep
St Anne's College 
http://www.stannesjcr.org








From davidg at goraich.co.uk  Wed Jun  1 19:26:45 2005
From: davidg at goraich.co.uk (david gordon)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:26:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + database
In-Reply-To: <429DB521.7000409@st.com>
References: <429DB521.7000409@st.com>
Message-ID: <20050601182645.1949@smtp.goraich.co.uk>

Jean-Philippe GIOLA wrote on Wed 01 Jun 2005 at 15:16 +0200

>Is there an option in mailman in order to fill in a database with mail 
>when they are sent ?

I wonder if something like Phorum <http://phorum.org/> Mail2Forum <http:/
/mail2forum.com/> or FUDforum <http://fudforum.org/> could be a solution
for you?

-- 
david.gordon




From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  2 05:28:35 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:28:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subject:  Clear Archives
In-Reply-To: <20050601164211.9CE7F1E4006@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506012028350562f9d0ff55@msapiro>

Paul Lewis wrote:

>I user mailman to run a couple of mailing lists for my student union, and as
>it's coming to the end of the year, wanted to clear the archives to start
>afresh next year. 
>
>Can anyone tell me how I can go about doing this?


cat /dev/null > archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox
bin/arch --wipe listname

You might want to back up the listname.mbox file first.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ricardo at americasnet.com  Thu Jun  2 05:29:38 2005
From: ricardo at americasnet.com (Ricardo Kleemann)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:29:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (re-post)  smtp failures, please help
References: <PC17402005060120161001876b60e945@msapiro>
Message-ID: <003f01c56723$4f346fc0$6400a8c0@laptop>

Awesome, this below is exactly what I was looking for; I'll add that code to 
try and get more debug from the smtp transaction.

Thanks
Ricardo

>
> If you look in Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py within the definition of
> bulkdeliver() you'll see
>
>    except smtplib.SMTPResponseException, e:
>        syslog('smtp-failure', 'SMTP session failure: %s, %s, msgid:
> %s',
>               e.smtp_code, e.smtp_error, msgid)
>
>
> You could add following that something like
>
>        syslog('smtp-failure', 'Args\n envsender->%s
>               \n recips->%s\n msgtext->%s', envsender, recips, msgtext)
>
>
> to try to see what is actually being given to the sendmail method that
> fails.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 




From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  2 05:49:27 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 20:49:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (re-post)  smtp failures, please help
In-Reply-To: <003f01c56723$4f346fc0$6400a8c0@laptop>
Message-ID: <PC174020050601204927045361e19d40@msapiro>

Ricardo Kleemann wrote:

>Awesome, this below is exactly what I was looking for; I'll add that code to 
>try and get more debug from the smtp transaction.

<snip>
>>
>> You could add following that something like
>>
>>        syslog('smtp-failure', 'Args\n envsender->%s
>>               \n recips->%s\n msgtext->%s', envsender, recips, msgtext)
>>
>>
>> to try to see what is actually being given to the sendmail method that
>> fails.

Ooops... can't break a single quoted string across lines. Make that

        syslog('smtp-failure', 'Args\n envsender->%s\n recips->%s\n
msgtext->%s',
                envsender, recips, msgtext)

(and watch out for the wrapped line, and be sure the syslog is intented
to the same level as the preceding one.)

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jean-philippe.giola at st.com  Thu Jun  2 09:20:10 2005
From: jean-philippe.giola at st.com (Jean-Philippe GIOLA)
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:20:10 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + database
In-Reply-To: <20050601182645.1949@smtp.goraich.co.uk>
References: <429DB521.7000409@st.com> <20050601182645.1949@smtp.goraich.co.uk>
Message-ID: <429EB32A.1020203@st.com>


>I wonder if something like Phorum <http://phorum.org/> Mail2Forum <http:/
>/mail2forum.com/> or FUDforum <http://fudforum.org/> could be a solution
>for you?
>
>  
>
yes it could be a solution bur it's not exactly what I want.

Thanks


-- 
Cordialement,
Jean-Philippe Giola - 6577




From jean-philippe.giola at st.com  Thu Jun  2 10:57:23 2005
From: jean-philippe.giola at st.com (Jean-Philippe GIOLA)
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 10:57:23 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pfp mail function
Message-ID: <429EC9F3.5000204@st.com>

HI all!

Has someone already use the mail fucntion of PHP in order to send a mail 
to a mailling-list ?
I'm trying to do that but my company has done some restrictions for the 
mail server in using this function and so I fill in the From field from 
my php script, but there is always a fixed adress like noreply... at ....

-- 
Cordialement,
Jean-Philippe Giola - 6577




From ricardo at americasnet.com  Thu Jun  2 16:07:12 2005
From: ricardo at americasnet.com (Ricardo Kleemann)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:07:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (re-post)  smtp failures, please help
References: <PC174020050601204927045361e19d40@msapiro>
Message-ID: <005901c5677c$5f91bf40$8732170a@LA.FRD.DIRECTV.COM>

Thanks Mark.

This helped me to figure it out...! The envelope sender is set to
mailman-bounces at localhost, and it seems courier doesn't like that. I
verified that by telnetting into my mail server and got the same 517 syntax
error when I sent:

mail from: mailman-bounces at localhost

Is mailman-bounces one of the required aliases? How can I configure mailman
such that it uses a proper email address rather than providing
mailman-bounces at localhost ?

Ricardo
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
To: "Ricardo Kleemann" <ricardo at americasnet.com>
Cc: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] (re-post) smtp failures, please help


> Ricardo Kleemann wrote:
>
> >Awesome, this below is exactly what I was looking for; I'll add that code
to
> >try and get more debug from the smtp transaction.
>
> <snip>
> >>
> >> You could add following that something like
> >>
> >>        syslog('smtp-failure', 'Args\n envsender->%s
> >>               \n recips->%s\n msgtext->%s', envsender, recips, msgtext)
> >>
> >>
> >> to try to see what is actually being given to the sendmail method that
> >> fails.
>
> Ooops... can't break a single quoted string across lines. Make that
>
>         syslog('smtp-failure', 'Args\n envsender->%s\n recips->%s\n
> msgtext->%s',
>                 envsender, recips, msgtext)
>
> (and watch out for the wrapped line, and be sure the syslog is intented
> to the same level as the preceding one.)
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  2 16:16:45 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:16:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + database
In-Reply-To: <429EB32A.1020203@st.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020050602071645026589b84256@msapiro>

Jean-Philippe GIOLA wrote:

>
>>I wonder if something like Phorum <http://phorum.org/> Mail2Forum <http:/
>>/mail2forum.com/> or FUDforum <http://fudforum.org/> could be a solution
>>for you?
>>
>>  
>>
>yes it could be a solution bur it's not exactly what I want.


See FAQ article 4.4
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Also see the comments in Defaults.py about PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER and
PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  2 16:29:52 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:29:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (re-post)  smtp failures, please help
In-Reply-To: <005901c5677c$5f91bf40$8732170a@LA.FRD.DIRECTV.COM>
Message-ID: <PC17402005060207295208439d3979bf@msapiro>

Ricardo Kleemann wrote:
>
>This helped me to figure it out...! The envelope sender is set to
>mailman-bounces at localhost, and it seems courier doesn't like that. I
>verified that by telnetting into my mail server and got the same 517 syntax
>error when I sent:
>
>mail from: mailman-bounces at localhost
>
>Is mailman-bounces one of the required aliases? How can I configure mailman
>such that it uses a proper email address rather than providing
>mailman-bounces at localhost ?

I'm guessing the specific error is the localhost part, not the -bounces
part since virtually all mail from mailman has an envelope sender of
some listname-bounces at some.domain. In this case the listname is
'mailman', i.e. the site list.

Go to the admin pages (General Options) for the mailman list and you'll
probably see host_name is localhost. Change it there and I think
you'll be OK.

You could also run 

bin/withlist -l -r fixurl mailman

Assuming your Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py values for DEFAULT_URL_HOST and
mm_cfg.DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST are 'good'.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ricardo at americasnet.com  Thu Jun  2 16:47:24 2005
From: ricardo at americasnet.com (Ricardo Kleemann)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:47:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (re-post)  smtp failures, please help
References: <PC17402005060207295208439d3979bf@msapiro>
Message-ID: <006f01c56781$fd5a8fe0$8732170a@LA.FRD.DIRECTV.COM>

Hi Mark,

One thing that confuses me, is that I sent email to
ricardo1-owner at lists.americasnet.com but as you see the smtp transaction
used mailman-bounces (so it didn't use the listname, 'ricardo1')

> I'm guessing the specific error is the localhost part, not the -bounces
> part since virtually all mail from mailman has an envelope sender of
> some listname-bounces at some.domain. In this case the listname is
> 'mailman', i.e. the site list.
>

> Go to the admin pages (General Options) for the mailman list and you'll
> probably see host_name is localhost. Change it there and I think
> you'll be OK.

But unfortunately that's not the case... The config for the list has
'lists.americasnet.com' for the hostname

>
> You could also run
>
> bin/withlist -l -r fixurl mailman
>
> Assuming your Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py values for DEFAULT_URL_HOST and
> mm_cfg.DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST are 'good'.

What should DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST be? I have it as localhost because I thought
this is the host mailman uses to _connect_ to the email server, therefore
it's set to localhost.

Ricardo



From jean-philippe.giola at st.com  Thu Jun  2 16:50:57 2005
From: jean-philippe.giola at st.com (Jean-Philippe GIOLA)
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 16:50:57 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + database
In-Reply-To: <PC174020050602071645026589b84256@msapiro>
References: <PC174020050602071645026589b84256@msapiro>
Message-ID: <429F1CD1.1090903@st.com>

See FAQ article 4.4

>>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>>    
>>
>
>Also see the comments in Defaults.py about PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER and
>PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER.
>
>  
>
So, if I understand, I have to write a script that will store the mail 
in a database ?
and then I will have to modify mm_cfg.py in order to have :

PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = './mail2DataBase'  

Is that correct ?



From ricardo at americasnet.com  Thu Jun  2 16:53:18 2005
From: ricardo at americasnet.com (Ricardo Kleemann)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:53:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (re-post)  smtp failures, please help
References: <PC17402005060207295208439d3979bf@msapiro>
Message-ID: <008101c56782$d0624e00$8732170a@LA.FRD.DIRECTV.COM>

Thanks again Mark,

You've helped me solve it! :-)

Indeed, it was the localhost in Defaults.py that was causing the problem. I
changed it to 'lists.americasnet.com' and now messages to -owner work...

Ricardo

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
To: "Ricardo Kleemann" <ricardo at americasnet.com>
Cc: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 7:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] (re-post) smtp failures, please help


> Ricardo Kleemann wrote:
> >
> >This helped me to figure it out...! The envelope sender is set to
> >mailman-bounces at localhost, and it seems courier doesn't like that. I
> >verified that by telnetting into my mail server and got the same 517
syntax
> >error when I sent:
> >
> >mail from: mailman-bounces at localhost
> >
> >Is mailman-bounces one of the required aliases? How can I configure
mailman
> >such that it uses a proper email address rather than providing
> >mailman-bounces at localhost ?
>
> I'm guessing the specific error is the localhost part, not the -bounces
> part since virtually all mail from mailman has an envelope sender of
> some listname-bounces at some.domain. In this case the listname is
> 'mailman', i.e. the site list.
>
> Go to the admin pages (General Options) for the mailman list and you'll
> probably see host_name is localhost. Change it there and I think
> you'll be OK.
>
> You could also run
>
> bin/withlist -l -r fixurl mailman
>
> Assuming your Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py values for DEFAULT_URL_HOST and
> mm_cfg.DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST are 'good'.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>



From mavery at mail.otherwhen.com  Thu Jun  2 17:09:57 2005
From: mavery at mail.otherwhen.com (Mike Avery)
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:09:57 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Member list oddity
In-Reply-To: <20050531231304.96F6D7AC54@mail.internet.is>
References: <20050531231304.96F6D7AC54@mail.internet.is>
Message-ID: <429F2145.2030807@mail.otherwhen.com>

On some lists when I check the member page, the membership is shown on a 
single page.  On other lists, the membership is broken out alphabetically.

However, this doesn't seem to be related to list size.  One list with 
over 100 members is shown on a single page while another list with about 
50 members is broken out alphabetically.

Is there some option I just haven't noticed that controlls this?  Could 
it be based on which version of Mailman was used to create the list?

I'd love to be able to toggle this behavior, but just haven't figured 
out how yet.

Thanks,
Mike



From walswort at nceas.ucsb.edu  Thu Jun  2 17:51:16 2005
From: walswort at nceas.ucsb.edu (Colby Walsworth)
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 08:51:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam checks before membership checks
Message-ID: <429F2AF4.7060007@nceas.ucsb.edu>

I emailed this same question before and got the suggestion to upgrade to 
2.1.6rc4. I have upgraded and it still seems to do the same thing.
Emails that get marked by spamassassin are making through the filters 
and are getting moderated as non-member posts.

So all our emails go throug spamassasin and get tagged with a certain 
line if they are spam. I have this filter on all our lists:

header_filter_rules = [('X-NCEAS-Mercury-MailScanner-SpamCheck: spam', 
3, 0)]

This is a header line that is in an email that made it through:
X-NCEAS-Mercury-MailScanner-SpamCheck: spam, SBL+XBL,
    SpamAssassin (score=1.897, required 3, HTML_40_50 0.09,
    HTML_MESSAGE 0.00, MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART 0.11, MSGID_FROM_MTA_ID 1.70)

Am I doing something wrong on the filtering? Why does it seem to 
moderate as non member before it does the header_filter_rule ?
Any suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks,
Colby

-- 

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Colby Walsworth
System Administrator
National Center for Ecological Analysis and Synthesis
735 State St., Suite 300
Santa Barbara, CA  93101-5504
phone: (805) 892-2507,  fax: (805) 892-2510
email:walswort at nceas.ucsb.edu  http://www.nceas.ucsb.edu/~walswort
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

            Dream as if you'll live forever.
             Live as if you'll die today.
                  --James Dean



From jnichols at stimson.org  Thu Jun  2 20:56:36 2005
From: jnichols at stimson.org (Joshua Nichols)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:56:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] short question,
	probably an FAQ that I've overlooked.
Message-ID: <16D67259DC0F45459B7EDB049B1E3E06B10CE6@exchange.stimson.org>

When I send a message to a Mailman list with 100 members, does Mailman
inject one message with 100 addresses BCC'd, or 100 messages with one
address BCC'd?


Thanks,

--joshua.


--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Joshua Nichols                                    jnichols at stimson.org
Director of Information Systems                 http://www.stimson.org
The Henry L. Stimson Center - 11 Dupont Circle, Washington, D.C. 20036 


From ricardo at americasnet.com  Thu Jun  2 21:25:42 2005
From: ricardo at americasnet.com (Ricardo Kleemann)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:25:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how can moderators automatically subscribe users?
Message-ID: <00e501c567a8$de285900$8732170a@LA.FRD.DIRECTV.COM>

Hi,

I know that via the web interface this is quite easy. However, I have a need
to be able to subscribe users via email commands, without the user being
subscribed getting a confirmation email. In other words, someone asks to be
inserted into the list, and then an email is sent with the subscribe command
in it.

Is this possible?

Ricardo



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Jun  2 21:27:51 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:27:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] short question,
 probably an FAQ that I've overlooked.
In-Reply-To: <16D67259DC0F45459B7EDB049B1E3E06B10CE6@exchange.stimson.org>
References: <16D67259DC0F45459B7EDB049B1E3E06B10CE6@exchange.stimson.org>
Message-ID: <p06200701bec50db8e8ad@[192.168.1.101]>

At 2:56 PM -0400 2005-06-02, Joshua Nichols wrote:

>  When I send a message to a Mailman list with 100 members, does Mailman
>  inject one message with 100 addresses BCC'd, or 100 messages with one
>  address BCC'd?

	Proper mailing list management systems don't use 
blind-carbon-copies.  The equivalent that they do use is to list 
multiple envelope recipients, whose addresses are not necessarily 
referred to on the "To:" or "Cc:" headers.

	However, it depends on how the mailing list software is 
configured.  If personalization is enabled, then it will send out 
individual messages to each and every subscriber.  If personalization 
is not enabled, it will send the messages out in small batches, as 
controlled by your site-wide configuration.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From jnichols at stimson.org  Thu Jun  2 21:42:32 2005
From: jnichols at stimson.org (Joshua Nichols)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:42:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] short question,
	probably an FAQ that I've overlooked.
Message-ID: <16D67259DC0F45459B7EDB049B1E3E06B10CEA@exchange.stimson.org>

Brad Knowles wrote:
>>  When I send a message to a Mailman list with 100 members, does
>>  Mailman inject one message with 100 addresses BCC'd, or 100
>>  messages with one address BCC'd?
> 
> 	Proper mailing list management systems don't use
> blind-carbon-copies.  The equivalent that they do use is to list
> multiple envelope recipients, whose addresses are not necessarily
> referred to on the "To:" or "Cc:" headers.

I didn't realize Mailman integrated with the MTA enough to do it that
way.  Thanks.


> 	However, it depends on how the mailing list software is
> configured.  If personalization is enabled, then it will send out
> individual messages to each and every subscriber.  If personalization
> is not enabled, it will send the messages out in small batches, as
> controlled by your site-wide configuration.

Does this mean that I configure how many recipients in each injection?
For example, I could set it to a high enough number that only a single
message was injected, or break up a distribution list into 10ish emails,
or whatever?


Thanks for your response,

--joshua.




From lungren at westernenergy.org  Fri Jun  3 01:12:15 2005
From: lungren at westernenergy.org (Bonnie Lungren at WEI)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:12:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Template Editing
Message-ID: <604225A07D85A548AD9DF91D96D37D1C50DFC8@energy.power.local>

I have not been able to find a way to get to the templates to edit them,
particularly the first subscription confirmation notice. It includes our
IP address in the first paragraph and I want to change that to our
company name.

 

We are at http://mail.weilists.org <http://mail.weilists.org/>  etc etc

 

Please be specific on how to get to the templates. I am a newbee, and a
generic answer will not help at all. 

 

Thank you for your help.

 

Bonnie Lungren

 



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  3 02:35:14 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:35:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Member list oddity
In-Reply-To: <429F2145.2030807@mail.otherwhen.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506021735140437d864e1a3@msapiro>

Mike Avery wrote:

>On some lists when I check the member page, the membership is shown on a 
>single page.  On other lists, the membership is broken out alphabetically.
>
>However, this doesn't seem to be related to list size.  One list with 
>over 100 members is shown on a single page while another list with about 
>50 members is broken out alphabetically.


It is controlled by size, but it's a per list attribute.


>Is there some option I just haven't noticed that controlls this?  Could 
>it be based on which version of Mailman was used to create the list?
>
>I'd love to be able to toggle this behavior, but just haven't figured 
>out how yet.

The paginating of the member list is controlled by the list attribute
admin_member_chunksize which is set at list creation time from the
Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py variable DEFAULT_ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE (default
value = 30).

The problem is admin_member_chunksize is not available in the list
admin GUI or in config_list so once a list is created, you have no
easy, visible way to change it. See
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1072002&group_id=103&atid=100103

In your case, it appears that DEFAULT_ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE has been
changed so older, pre-change lists have one value for
admin_member_chunksize and newer lists have another. You can use
bin/withlist to change it for an existing list. For example - set
admin_member_chunksize = 100 for the mailman list

$ bin/withlist -l mailman
Loading list mailman (locked)
The variable `m' is the mailman MailList instance
>>> m.admin_member_chunksize = 100
>>> m.Save()
>>>
Unlocking (but not saving) list: mailman
Finalizing
$

The '>>>' are Python prompts - the 'empty response is a control-D

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Fri Jun  3 02:50:06 2005
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 19:50:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] short question,
 probably an FAQ that I've overlooked.
In-Reply-To: <p06200701bec50db8e8ad@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <BEC5136E.ABDB%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 6/2/05 2:27 PM, Brad Knowles at brad at stop.mail-abuse.org wrote:

> Proper mailing list management systems don't use
> blind-carbon-copies.  The equivalent that they do use is to list
> multiple envelope recipients, whose addresses are not necessarily
> referred to on the "To:" or "Cc:" headers.

Brad, I realize this is getting a little off of Mailman but how is that
different from what a BCC does? A BCC "header" is local to the originating
MUA - it doesn't appear in the transmitted message but the BCC recipients do
become envelope recipients. So from the view of the MTA, isn't what you say
Mailman does exactly the same as what the MUA does with a BCC?

-- Larry Stone
   lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
   http://www.stonejongleux.com/




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Jun  3 02:21:28 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:21:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] short question,
 probably an FAQ that I've overlooked.
In-Reply-To: <16D67259DC0F45459B7EDB049B1E3E06B10CEA@exchange.stimson.org>
References: <16D67259DC0F45459B7EDB049B1E3E06B10CEA@exchange.stimson.org>
Message-ID: <p06200703bec552900b3e@[192.168.1.101]>

At 3:42 PM -0400 2005-06-02, Joshua Nichols wrote:

>  Does this mean that I configure how many recipients in each injection?

	For each and every injection separately?  No.

>  For example, I could set it to a high enough number that only a single
>  message was injected, or break up a distribution list into 10ish emails,
>  or whatever?

	You've got two controls.  One specifies the maximum number of 
recipients that will be included in any one batch (which is a 
site-wide setting in mm_cfg.py), and the other is "list 
personalization" which would cause each and every recipient to get a 
unique copy of the message sent to them.

	But those are the only two knobs you've got that you can tweak.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Jun  3 02:57:23 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:57:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] short question,
 probably an FAQ that I've overlooked.
In-Reply-To: <BEC5136E.ABDB%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
References: <BEC5136E.ABDB%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <p06200705bec55a62e06b@[192.168.1.101]>

At 7:50 PM -0500 2005-06-02, Larry Stone wrote:

>  Brad, I realize this is getting a little off of Mailman but how is that
>  different from what a BCC does? A BCC "header" is local to the originating
>  MUA - it doesn't appear in the transmitted message but the BCC recipients do
>  become envelope recipients. So from the view of the MTA, isn't what you say
>  Mailman does exactly the same as what the MUA does with a BCC?

	Well, "Bcc:" is a header.  Mailman never uses a "Bcc:" header. 
In terms of the implementation, by listing multiple envelope 
recipients, there is no practical difference.


	The technical difference is that a "Bcc:" header is something 
that would typically be added by an MUA, but an MUA wouldn't know 
enough about the SMTP protocol in order to be able to provide 
multiple envelope recipients directly.  In this case, it's up to the 
MTA to take the "Bcc:" header and interpret those contents 
appropriately.

	However, Mailman does know enough about the SMTP protocol that it 
can by-pass the use of a "Bcc:" header, and go straight to listing 
multiple envelope recipients.


	The difference is akin to putting a stamp on an envelope and 
putting that in the mailbox yourself, or going down to the post 
office with a letter in-hand and paying to have the person at the 
window put the stamp onto the letter and put the envelope into the 
bag.

	Do you understand how to put a stamp onto an envelope and where 
the stamp goes, how many stamps of what kind to use for what type of 
mail you're sending and how much it weighs, and do you have a ready 
supply of the appropriate stamps at your disposal?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From jwblist at olympus.net  Fri Jun  3 03:07:41 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 18:07:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] short question,
 probably an FAQ that I've overlooked.
In-Reply-To: <BEC5136E.ABDB%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <BEC4FB6D.5A5D%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 6/2/05 5:50 PM, "Larry Stone" <lstone19 at stonejongleux.com> wrote:

> On 6/2/05 2:27 PM, Brad Knowles at brad at stop.mail-abuse.org wrote:
> 
>> Proper mailing list management systems don't use
>> blind-carbon-copies.  The equivalent that they do use is to list
>> multiple envelope recipients, whose addresses are not necessarily
>> referred to on the "To:" or "Cc:" headers.
> 
> Brad, I realize this is getting a little off of Mailman but how is that
> different from what a BCC does? A BCC "header" is local to the originating
> MUA - it doesn't appear in the transmitted message but the BCC recipients do
> become envelope recipients. So from the view of the MTA, isn't what you say
> Mailman does exactly the same as what the MUA does with a BCC?

Not really.  Some MUAs preserve the full Bcc header for anyone in that
header, but removed it for the To: and Cc: recipients.  Others set up a Bcc:
header with just the individual recipient's address (clearly these talk to
the MTA separately for each Bcc: recipient).  And most remove it.  All these
behaviors are sanctioned by the RFCs (clearly a compromise in the RFC
development process).

Also, there are more knobs--outside Mailman--that can be messed with.  I
don't know how in Postfix; I never will know how in sendmail (I'm 66--I
won't live long enough to learn sendmail).  In Exim, it's a matter of
settings in a transport, with routers feeding appropriate domains to the
transport.  So you could arrange to send large batches most places, batches
of one to AOL, and batches of 5 to xyz.example.com, for example.

Also, I don't believe that the original posting's 5xx response meant that
the receiving site thought that your machine is an open relay--it guessed it
might be because of too many invalid recipient addresses in one connection,
which is typical of spamming through open relays (and spamming generally).

  --John




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  3 03:18:29 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 18:18:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Template Editing
In-Reply-To: <604225A07D85A548AD9DF91D96D37D1C50DFC8@energy.power.local>
Message-ID: <PC17402005060218182903439e5c4dd4@msapiro>

Bonnie Lungren at WEI wrote:

>I have not been able to find a way to get to the templates to edit them,
>particularly the first subscription confirmation notice. It includes our
>IP address in the first paragraph and I want to change that to our
>company name.


The template you describe is (english version) at
templates/en/verify.txt. Other languages are at
templates/<lang>/verify.txt.

Instruction on where to put edited templates are in the FAQ - article
4.48.

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py


>Please be specific on how to get to the templates. I am a newbee, and a
>generic answer will not help at all. 

In order to access and edit the templates you need shell (or possibly
FTP) access with sufficient permission (usually the mailman userid or
root) to the machine that runs mailman.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Fri Jun  3 03:22:47 2005
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 20:22:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] short question,
 probably an FAQ that I've overlooked.
In-Reply-To: <p06200705bec55a62e06b@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <BEC51B17.ABE8%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 6/2/05 7:57 PM, Brad Knowles at brad at stop.mail-abuse.org wrote:

> At 7:50 PM -0500 2005-06-02, Larry Stone wrote:
> 
>>  Brad, I realize this is getting a little off of Mailman but how is that
>>  different from what a BCC does? A BCC "header" is local to the originating
>>  MUA - it doesn't appear in the transmitted message but the BCC recipients do
>>  become envelope recipients. So from the view of the MTA, isn't what you say
>>  Mailman does exactly the same as what the MUA does with a BCC?
> 
> Well, "Bcc:" is a header.  Mailman never uses a "Bcc:" header.
> In terms of the implementation, by listing multiple envelope
> recipients, there is no practical difference.

> The technical difference is that a "Bcc:" header is something
> that would typically be added by an MUA, but an MUA wouldn't know
> enough about the SMTP protocol in order to be able to provide
> multiple envelope recipients directly.  In this case, it's up to the
> MTA to take the "Bcc:" header and interpret those contents
> appropriately.

Wow. I thought I knew how an MUA and an MTA interfaced. But what you're
saying is that an MUA can send the MTA a BCC header (which, of course, is in
the DATA section of the SMTP exchange) and rely on the MTA to strip out the
BCC and add the additional envelope recipients.
 
> However, Mailman does know enough about the SMTP protocol that it
> can by-pass the use of a "Bcc:" header, and go straight to listing
> multiple envelope recipients.

Considering that every MUA I use can communicate with the MTA via the SMTP
port, I assumed (assumed - that's dangerous) that it was sending normal SMTP
commands - i.e. a MAIL FROM command, one or more RCPT TO commands, and a
DATA command followed by the message. And I assumed (there's that word
again) that the MTA did nothing with the To and Cc headers other than to
pass them on unchanged. So is there something different going on between an
MUA and an MTA? Or if not, why would an MUA not know enough about SMTP to
send multiple envelope recipients.

-- Larry Stone
   lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
   http://www.stonejongleux.com/




From jwblist at olympus.net  Fri Jun  3 03:29:27 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 18:29:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] short question,
 probably an FAQ that I've overlooked.
In-Reply-To: <BEC4FB6D.5A5D%jwblist@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <BEC50087.5A66%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 6/2/05 6:07 PM, "John W. Baxter" <jwblist at olympus.net> wrote:

> Not really.  Some MUAs preserve the full Bcc header for anyone in that
> header, but removed it for the To: and Cc: recipients.  Others set up a Bcc:
> header with just the individual recipient's address (clearly these talk to
> the MTA separately for each Bcc: recipient).  And most remove it.  All these
> behaviors are sanctioned by the RFCs (clearly a compromise in the RFC
> development process).

What I didn't say and should have is that the MTA used for submission may
also play a role in this process.

There's a lively discussion in the exim-users list archives (sorry, no URL
handy).  That discussion included a rehash of the issue on the appropriate
IETF list (requested by Exim's developer, Philip Hazel--also the father of
the PCRE code).  The essential result was that MTAs when not acting in
submission form as "part" of the MUA should leave any Bcc: headers alone.

  --John




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Jun  3 03:52:23 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:52:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] short question,
 probably an FAQ that I've overlooked.
In-Reply-To: <BEC51B17.ABE8%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
References: <BEC51B17.ABE8%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>
Message-ID: <p06200707bec5675beac7@[192.168.1.101]>

At 8:22 PM -0500 2005-06-02, Larry Stone wrote:

>  Wow. I thought I knew how an MUA and an MTA interfaced. But what you're
>  saying is that an MUA can send the MTA a BCC header (which, of course, is in
>  the DATA section of the SMTP exchange) and rely on the MTA to strip out the
>  BCC and add the additional envelope recipients.

	Correct.  It all depends on the MUA and the MTA.

>  Considering that every MUA I use can communicate with the MTA via the SMTP
>  port, I assumed (assumed - that's dangerous) that it was sending normal SMTP
>  commands - i.e. a MAIL FROM command, one or more RCPT TO commands, and a
>  DATA command followed by the message.

	Many MUAs actually hand the message off to the MTA via the 
command-line.  They call /usr/bin/sendmail (or somesuch), and trust 
that it will do the correct things with the message.

	There's also the Submission port (587), and MTAs can be 
configured to act differently depending on whether they think that 
the incoming message is an initial submission from an MUA or if they 
think that the message coming in is being relayed to them by another 
MTA.

>                                         And I assumed (there's that word
>  again) that the MTA did nothing with the To and Cc headers other than to
>  pass them on unchanged. So is there something different going on between an
>  MUA and an MTA?

	MTAs can change the "To:" and "Cc:" headers, too.  It depends on 
whether or not the MTA in question considers itself to be the final 
destination for one or more of the recipients, or if it should be 
handing the message off to one or more other machines.

	You can get lots of variability in the interface between MUAs and 
MTAs, too.

>                   Or if not, why would an MUA not know enough about SMTP to
>  send multiple envelope recipients.

	Depends on the MUA and how much intelligence was encoded in the program.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Jun  3 03:53:32 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:53:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] short question,
 probably an FAQ that I've overlooked.
In-Reply-To: <BEC50087.5A66%jwblist@olympus.net>
References: <BEC50087.5A66%jwblist@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <p06200708bec568752cd6@[192.168.1.101]>

At 6:29 PM -0700 2005-06-02, John W. Baxter wrote:

>                   The essential result was that MTAs when not acting in
>  submission form as "part" of the MUA should leave any Bcc: headers alone.

	Key word: should.

	Unfortunately, not all MTAs obey this rule.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  3 05:39:13 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:39:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how can moderators automatically subscribe
	users?
In-Reply-To: <00e501c567a8$de285900$8732170a@LA.FRD.DIRECTV.COM>
Message-ID: <PC17402005060220391309536cdff806@msapiro>

Ricardo Kleemann wrote:
>
>I know that via the web interface this is quite easy. However, I have a need
>to be able to subscribe users via email commands, without the user being
>subscribed getting a confirmation email. In other words, someone asks to be
>inserted into the list, and then an email is sent with the subscribe command
>in it.
>
>Is this possible?

I think that as long as subscribe_policy includes confirm, the
subscribee will always receive a confirm e-mail from a subscribe (or
join) e-mail command.

This is at least in part because it's so easy to send a subscribe
command for someone else. I've looked at the code, and I don't see
that Approved: headers are handled in e-mail command processing. It's
generally assumed that the list admin will use the web interface.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lists at lastonepicked.com  Fri Jun  3 06:23:24 2005
From: lists at lastonepicked.com (Hunter Hillegas)
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 21:23:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What Happened To The Message?
Message-ID: <BEC5294C.7C2D8%lists@lastonepicked.com>

Hello.

I am running 2.1.5 on RHEL3 w/ Postfix.

I posted to one of my lists. This list contains 265,000 members. It is an
announce only list.

I can see the mail server got the post:

Jun  2 22:43:55 myhost postfix/local[31186]: D6C0D250778:
to=<mylist at mail.myhost.com>, orig_to=<mylist at mail.myhost.com>, relay=local,
delay=1, status=sent ("|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mylist")

So, I go to look at Mailman's 'post' file and the last entry is from a few
days back. Nothing related to this post at all.

Also, nothing ever hit the archives.

Is there something in between postfix getting/delivering the message and
Mailman posting it? Could it still be churning on something? I don't see
Python using hardly any CPU.

How can I determine what happened?

Thanks,
Hunter




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  3 06:37:35 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:37:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam checks before membership checks
In-Reply-To: <429F2AF4.7060007@nceas.ucsb.edu>
Message-ID: <PC174020050602213735050032c4f1b7@msapiro>

Colby Walsworth wrote:
>
>So all our emails go throug spamassasin and get tagged with a certain 
>line if they are spam. I have this filter on all our lists:
>
>header_filter_rules = [('X-NCEAS-Mercury-MailScanner-SpamCheck: spam', 
>3, 0)]
>
>This is a header line that is in an email that made it through:
>X-NCEAS-Mercury-MailScanner-SpamCheck: spam, SBL+XBL,
>    SpamAssassin (score=1.897, required 3, HTML_40_50 0.09,
>    HTML_MESSAGE 0.00, MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART 0.11, MSGID_FROM_MTA_ID 1.70)
>
>Am I doing something wrong on the filtering? Why does it seem to 
>moderate as non member before it does the header_filter_rule ?
>Any suggestions are appreciated.

It should work. I don't know why it doesn't assuming the
X-NCEAS-Mercury-MailScanner-SpamCheck: header gets added before the
message gets delivered to Mailman.

Have you made any changes to GLOBAL_PIPELINE in mm_cfg.py or added a
pipeline attribute to the lists. If not,
Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py is the first thing invoked to process
the message and if there is a match on header_filter_rules with an
action of DISCARD (= 3), the message is discarded. You might try

X-NCEAS-Mercury-MailScanner-SpamCheck:[ \t]*spam

as the pattern in header_filter_rules instead of

X-NCEAS-Mercury-MailScanner-SpamCheck: spam

but that probably won't help.

You might consider adding

from Mailman.Logging.Syslog import syslog

to the beginning of SpamDetect.py and then add some logging, e.g. change


    for patterns, action, empty in mlist.header_filter_rules:
        if action == mm_cfg.DEFER:
            continue
        for pattern in patterns.splitlines():
            if pattern.startswith('#'):
                continue
            if re.search(pattern, headers, re.IGNORECASE):
                if action == mm_cfg.DISCARD:


to

    for patterns, action, empty in mlist.header_filter_rules:
        if action == mm_cfg.DEFER:
            continue
        for pattern in patterns.splitlines():
            if pattern.startswith('#'):
                continue
            syslog('debug', 'pattern->%s\nheaders->%s', pattern,
                   headers)
            if re.search(pattern, headers, re.IGNORECASE):
                if action == mm_cfg.DISCARD:

Which will write the pattern and headers to a 'debug' log file in
Mailman's log directory.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  3 06:46:20 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:46:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What Happened To The Message?
In-Reply-To: <BEC5294C.7C2D8%lists@lastonepicked.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506022146200328e8909f5c@msapiro>

Hunter Hillegas wrote:
>
>I posted to one of my lists. This list contains 265,000 members. It is an
>announce only list.
>
>I can see the mail server got the post:
>
>Jun  2 22:43:55 myhost postfix/local[31186]: D6C0D250778:
>to=<mylist at mail.myhost.com>, orig_to=<mylist at mail.myhost.com>, relay=local,
>delay=1, status=sent ("|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mylist")
>
>So, I go to look at Mailman's 'post' file and the last entry is from a few
>days back. Nothing related to this post at all.
>
>Also, nothing ever hit the archives.
>
>Is there something in between postfix getting/delivering the message and
>Mailman posting it?

Pretty much everything. The 'post' log isn't written until SMTPDirect
delivers the outgoing message(s) to the outgoing MTA.

>Could it still be churning on something? I don't see
>Python using hardly any CPU.

Are all the qrunners running?

>How can I determine what happened?

Look in the 'error' log, look in the 'locks' log, look in the qrunner
log, look in the qfiles/shunt directory. Look in the other qfiles/*
directories. See FAQ article 3.14

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lists at lastonepicked.com  Fri Jun  3 06:57:03 2005
From: lists at lastonepicked.com (Hunter Hillegas)
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 21:57:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What Happened To The Message?
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200506022146200328e8909f5c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BEC5312F.7C2F7%lists@lastonepicked.com>

Mark,

Thanks for the response.

Yes, the qrunners are running. The qrunner log shows its startup a few days
ago, that is it.

The error log shows no entries from today.

The locks log is empty as well.

The qfiles/shunt directory contains a few items but they all belong to
another list (and they are all about 6 months old).

The other qfile directories are empty.

I am reading through that FAQ entry again. A bit more background... This
list was setup about a month ago. I've sent to it successfully twice, as
recently as last week. We haven't upgraded MM or changed the list setup.

I can understand it taking a long time to process since the list is so large
but I guess I would expect to see a log entry, a lock, a qfile... Something
to indicate that the message didn't disappear into the ether.

Thanks,
Hunter

> From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
> Organization: Not Very Much
> Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:46:20 -0700
> To: Hunter Hillegas <lists at lastonepicked.com>, Mailman
> <mailman-users at python.org>
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] What Happened To The Message?
> 
> Hunter Hillegas wrote:
>> 
>> I posted to one of my lists. This list contains 265,000 members. It is an
>> announce only list.
>> 
>> I can see the mail server got the post:
>> 
>> Jun  2 22:43:55 myhost postfix/local[31186]: D6C0D250778:
>> to=<mylist at mail.myhost.com>, orig_to=<mylist at mail.myhost.com>, relay=local,
>> delay=1, status=sent ("|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post mylist")
>> 
>> So, I go to look at Mailman's 'post' file and the last entry is from a few
>> days back. Nothing related to this post at all.
>> 
>> Also, nothing ever hit the archives.
>> 
>> Is there something in between postfix getting/delivering the message and
>> Mailman posting it?
> 
> Pretty much everything. The 'post' log isn't written until SMTPDirect
> delivers the outgoing message(s) to the outgoing MTA.
> 
>> Could it still be churning on something? I don't see
>> Python using hardly any CPU.
> 
> Are all the qrunners running?
> 
>> How can I determine what happened?
> 
> Look in the 'error' log, look in the 'locks' log, look in the qrunner
> log, look in the qfiles/shunt directory. Look in the other qfiles/*
> directories. See FAQ article 3.14
> 
>> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Jun  3 07:30:11 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 00:30:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What Happened To The Message?
In-Reply-To: <BEC5294C.7C2D8%lists@lastonepicked.com>
References: <BEC5294C.7C2D8%lists@lastonepicked.com>
Message-ID: <p0620070abec59a33d589@[192.168.1.101]>

At 9:23 PM -0700 2005-06-02, Hunter Hillegas wrote:

>  So, I go to look at Mailman's 'post' file and the last entry is from a few
>  days back. Nothing related to this post at all.
>
>  Also, nothing ever hit the archives.

	Which archives did you check?  Did you check the raw source 
listname.mbox file, or the "cooked" archives after processing?

	I ask because we had some problems recently on the mailing lists 
for python.org where some lists got "hung" on a given message which 
had been written to the raw listname.mbox file, but had not yet been 
through the rest of the process.  They had been shunted, and the 
queue runners kept running, but once those messages got into the 
queue for that list, nothing else for that list would go through.

	Barry was able to find the problem and fix it, and I'm pretty 
sure that his changes were incorporated into the 2.1.6 version that 
was officially released recently.

>  Is there something in between postfix getting/delivering the message and
>  Mailman posting it? Could it still be churning on something? I don't see
>  Python using hardly any CPU.
>
>  How can I determine what happened?

	Check the other logs, and the shunt queue directory.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From macbantam at ntlworld.com  Fri Jun  3 12:31:47 2005
From: macbantam at ntlworld.com (PeteBell)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 11:31:47 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug report
Message-ID: <3DFB9711-7678-4159-8A75-9F61146CF26F@ntlworld.com>

Hi.

I have just gone live with my email list, and this is the first time  
anyone has reported a problem to me, so here it is for your comments.  
(First let me remind you that I do *not* have access to the Mailman  
installation, and I do *NOT* speak Python - apart from the "Monty"  
version!)....


> I tried to subscribe using the 3-c.coop address, but it wouldn't  
> let me say I didn't want to receive the emails, so I clicked  
> cancel. Then I got this:
>
> "Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5p1
>
> We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
> If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a  
> copy of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description  
> of what happened. Thanks!
> Traceback:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/scripts/driver", line  
> 87, in run_main
>     main()
>   File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/confirm.py",  
> line 114, in main
>     subscription_cancel(mlist, doc, cookie)
>   File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/confirm.py",  
> line 312, in subscription_cancel
>     userdesc = mlist.pend_confirm(cookie)[1]
>   File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py",  
> line 141, in pend_confirm
>     assert self.Locked()
> AssertionError"
>
>
> Python information:
>
> Variable    Value
> sys.version    2.2.2 (#1, Feb 24 2003, 19:13:11) [GCC 3.2.2  
> 20030222 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.2-4)]
> sys.executable    /usr/bin/python2
> sys.prefix    /usr
> sys.exec_prefix    /usr
> sys.path    /usr
> sys.platform    linux2
>
> Environment variables:
>
> Variable    Value
> PATH_INFO     /mactalk_mactalk.org.uk
> HTTP_ACCEPT     text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/ 
> html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5
> CONTENT_TYPE     application/x-www-form-urlencoded
> HTTP_REFERER     http://mail.mactalk.org.uk/mailman/confirm/ 
> mactalk_mactalk.org.uk/569f32ae2206d89dc8eae730945a5241f2134ad6
> SERVER_SOFTWARE     Apache
> PYTHONPATH     /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman
> SCRIPT_FILENAME     /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/cgi-bin/confirm
> SERVER_ADMIN     webmaster at securesitex.com
> SCRIPT_NAME     /mailman/confirm
> REQUEST_METHOD     POST
> HTTP_HOST     mail.mactalk.org.uk
> HTTP_KEEP_ALIVE     300
> SERVER_PROTOCOL     HTTP/1.1
> QUERY_STRING
> REQUEST_URI     /mailman/confirm/mactalk_mactalk.org.uk
> CONTENT_LENGTH     128
> HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET     ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7
> HTTP_USER_AGENT     Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O;  
> en-US; rv:1.7.7) Gecko/20050414 Firefox/1.0.3
> HTTP_CONNECTION     keep-alive
> SERVER_NAME     www.securesitex.com
> REMOTE_PORT     50650
> REMOTE_ADDR     213.55.30.31
> HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE     en-us,en;q=0.5
> PATH_TRANSLATED     /home/securesi/public_html/mactalk_mactalk.org.uk
> SERVER_PORT     80
> GATEWAY_INTERFACE     CGI/1.1
> HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING     gzip,deflate
> SERVER_ADDR     69.56.243.90
> DOCUMENT_ROOT     /home/securesi/public_html
>


What's all that about then?!
TIA
Pete


From jwblist at olympus.net  Fri Jun  3 14:18:22 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 05:18:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how can moderators automatically subscribe
 users?
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005060220391309536cdff806@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BEC5989E.5A89%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 6/2/05 8:39 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Ricardo Kleemann wrote:
>> 
>> I know that via the web interface this is quite easy. However, I have a need
>> to be able to subscribe users via email commands, without the user being
>> subscribed getting a confirmation email. In other words, someone asks to be
>> inserted into the list, and then an email is sent with the subscribe command
>> in it.
>> 
>> Is this possible?
> 
> I think that as long as subscribe_policy includes confirm, the
> subscribee will always receive a confirm e-mail from a subscribe (or
> join) e-mail command.
> 
> This is at least in part because it's so easy to send a subscribe
> command for someone else. I've looked at the code, and I don't see
> that Approved: headers are handled in e-mail command processing. It's
> generally assumed that the list admin will use the web interface.

As an RFE, allowing Approved: headers in this context would be a good thing
to ask for.

Adjusting the Python code to do so and offering a patch against Mailman
2.1.6 would also be feasible, if it matches Ricardo's talents or those of
someone he enlists.

It may also be that Mailman in the 2.x form isn't the right tool to use for
solving Ricardo's problem.

Mailman was built to be web-interface driven in part because lots of
MajorDomo, LISTSERV, and others were tired of having to do things by email
command (including me).  And tired of waiting for the ever-receding
MajorDomo 2.  The email commands which are there are there basically so that
list users could keep doing things the familiar way when their list was
moved to Mailman.  [I wasn't around during Mailman's early days--we first
installed 2.0.6--I'm reading between the lines in writing this paragraph.]

  --John
  




From jwblist at olympus.net  Fri Jun  3 14:25:22 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 05:25:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how can moderators automatically subscribe
 users?
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005060220391309536cdff806@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BEC59A42.5A8B%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 6/2/05 8:39 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Ricardo Kleemann wrote:
>> 
>> I know that via the web interface this is quite easy. However, I have a need
>> to be able to subscribe users via email commands, without the user being
>> subscribed getting a confirmation email. In other words, someone asks to be
>> inserted into the list, and then an email is sent with the subscribe command
>> in it.
>> 
>> Is this possible?
> 
> I think that as long as subscribe_policy includes confirm, the
> subscribee will always receive a confirm e-mail from a subscribe (or
> join) e-mail command.

Hmmm...another thought.

A possibility would be to write a program (in whatever language is
convenient and safe) which receives the email commands at some address not
related to mailman, validates them for authenticity by whatever means (I'd
be tempted to use PGP or GPG signatures here, and a sufficiently paranoid*
person would add encryption), and then drives the Mailman command line tool
which can add addresses without confirmation.

There remains nothing in as-shipped Mailman through 2.1.6 which will do what
Ricardo wants.

  --John
   * It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you.




From gh at faktor-e.de  Fri Jun  3 16:26:12 2005
From: gh at faktor-e.de (Garvin Hicking)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 15:26:12 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing "From"-Header in mailman created posts
Message-ID: <42A06884.9030603@faktor-e.de>

Hi!

I want to use Mailman in a "posting-only" setup with a few hundred 
users. Setup so far with mailman 2.1.6 on a Debian-Exim System  went 
smooth so far.

What I want now is that only one single user is allowed to post to the 
list, all other users may only read what's posted. I can achieve this 
via setting all but one member to "moderated". This one member can then 
post to the list, and the list would use his email adress as the 
mailinglist adress.

The problem with this is that every user can now send mails to the list 
by just faking the "From" Adress with that one posting user.

The only way to bypass this seems to either:

1.) Enable global moderation. That is a bit cumbersome since I have to 
visit the admin panel each time I post a message. But then I can control 
that no other user abuses the mail adress to post.

2.) "Obfuscate" the posting user mail adress, so that users only see 
"mailman at host" instead of "userXYZ at host". Since nobody sees/knows this 
mail adress, this is fairly safe. However the drawback is that all mails 
are now sent with the mail adress of the list: "mailman at host".

Now I want to use method 2) but I also want that the From: Field looks like:

From: "My personal newsletter" <mailman at host>

The problem is I cannot get a way to pass this "My personal newsletter" 
string into the headers. There seems to be no configuration directive 
for this field, and it is always autogenerated via "From: 
listname at hostname".

Which core Python file would I need to hack to inject this descriptive 
string? Or is there some other way to set an explicit "From" adress, so 
that I can enter '"My Personal Newsletter" <mailman at host>' somewher in 
the interface?

Many thanks in advance,
Garvin.

-- 
Garvin Hicking
Web-Entwickler
Faktor E Multimedia GmbH | www.faktor-e.de


From mcn4 at leicester.ac.uk  Fri Jun  3 15:50:21 2005
From: mcn4 at leicester.ac.uk (Matthew Newton)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 14:50:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Backing up list settings
Message-ID: <20050603135021.GI23884@ultra.le.ac.uk>

Hi,

In my system scripts, before I remove a list, I would like to backup the
list including all settings and the mail archives.

The machine is backed up every night, so this is "just in-case".

Would the following be the right sort of thing? (To restore I guess I
would create a list with the same name, stop Mailman, and then untar.)

---8<---
#! /bin/sh

LIST=$1

BACKUP="/var/lib/mailman/lists/$LIST"
BACKUP="$BACKUP /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/$LIST"
BACKUP="$BACKUP /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/$LIST.mbox"
if [ -e "/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/$LIST" ]; then
  BACKUP="$BACKUP /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/$LIST"
fi

tar zcvf - $BACKUP
---8<---

Usage something like:

  ./backup-script listname > list-backup.tar.gz

Thanks

Matthew


-- 
Matthew Newton <mcn4 at le.ac.uk>

UNIX and e-mail Systems Administrator, Network Support Section,
Computer Centre, University of Leicester,
Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom


From ricardo at americasnet.com  Fri Jun  3 15:47:08 2005
From: ricardo at americasnet.com (Ricardo Kleemann)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 06:47:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how can moderators automatically subscribe
	users?
References: <BEC59A42.5A8B%jwblist@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <015901c56842$bcbf21a0$8732170a@LA.FRD.DIRECTV.COM>

Thank you for your comments, John.

As a matter of fact that's what I ended up doing. I created a separate alias
(like list-command), which pipes the message through another program, and
the program then parses the message for commands (currently only
subscribe/unsubscribe), and then runs the mailman command line programs to
perform the action. The commands have to be preceded by an approval
password. This is very similar to the way majordomo works. But I'd rather
use mailman.

The reason I need to focus on email commands, is because I have a couple of
lists that are managed by a person who is blind, and uses email as the main
tool for management. He is still very capable of using the web, but it's
much easier and not so cluttered. It's amazing what some voice tools out
there enable visually impaired people to do.

Ricardo

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John W. Baxter" <jwblist at olympus.net>
To: "Mailman Users" <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 5:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] how can moderators automatically subscribe
users?


> On 6/2/05 8:39 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> > Ricardo Kleemann wrote:
> >>
> >> I know that via the web interface this is quite easy. However, I have a
need
> >> to be able to subscribe users via email commands, without the user
being
> >> subscribed getting a confirmation email. In other words, someone asks
to be
> >> inserted into the list, and then an email is sent with the subscribe
command
> >> in it.
> >>
> >> Is this possible?
> >
> > I think that as long as subscribe_policy includes confirm, the
> > subscribee will always receive a confirm e-mail from a subscribe (or
> > join) e-mail command.
>
> Hmmm...another thought.
>
> A possibility would be to write a program (in whatever language is
> convenient and safe) which receives the email commands at some address not
> related to mailman, validates them for authenticity by whatever means (I'd
> be tempted to use PGP or GPG signatures here, and a sufficiently paranoid*
> person would add encryption), and then drives the Mailman command line
tool
> which can add addresses without confirmation.
>
> There remains nothing in as-shipped Mailman through 2.1.6 which will do
what
> Ricardo wants.
>
>   --John
>    * It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ricardo%40americasnet.com
>
> Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  3 16:47:48 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:47:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What Happened To The Message?
In-Reply-To: <BEC5312F.7C2F7%lists@lastonepicked.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020050603074748026549c50839@msapiro>

Hunter Hillegas wrote:
>
>I can understand it taking a long time to process since the list is so large
>but I guess I would expect to see a log entry, a lock, a qfile... Something
>to indicate that the message didn't disappear into the ether.

That's correct. If the message were still in process, there would be at
least one qfiles/ entry for it.

If you haven't, you might check the 'vette' log.

Otherwise, is it possible that the post contained a

X-BeenThere: <list address>

header. If the post was a reply or otherwise created from a prior post,
it might have contained this. Most MUAs will remove it from a reply,
but depending on how the message was created, it may have contained
this header which would cause Mailman to ignore the post.

Otherwise, I'm out of ideas.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  3 17:08:45 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:08:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug report
In-Reply-To: <3DFB9711-7678-4159-8A75-9F61146CF26F@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506030808450515c350ad10@msapiro>

PeteBell wrote:
>
>I have just gone live with my email list, and this is the first time  
>anyone has reported a problem to me, so here it is for your comments.  
>(First let me remind you that I do *not* have access to the Mailman  
>installation, and I do *NOT* speak Python - apart from the "Monty"  
>version!)....
>
>
>> I tried to subscribe using the 3-c.coop address, but it wouldn't  
>> let me say I didn't want to receive the emails, so I clicked  
>> cancel. Then I got this:
>>
>> "Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5p1
>>
>> We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>>
>> If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a  
>> copy of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description  
>> of what happened. Thanks!
>> Traceback:
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/scripts/driver", line  
>> 87, in run_main
>>     main()
>>   File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/confirm.py",  
>> line 114, in main
>>     subscription_cancel(mlist, doc, cookie)
>>   File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/confirm.py",  
>> line 312, in subscription_cancel
>>     userdesc = mlist.pend_confirm(cookie)[1]
>>   File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py",  
>> line 141, in pend_confirm
>>     assert self.Locked()
>> AssertionError"

First, see FAQ article 6.11

Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

That said, this is not a cPanel problem per se. It has been fixed in
Mailman 2.1.6.

As far as your user's not wanting to subscribe if she/he can't supress
e-mail, the user needs to subscribe first and then disable mail
delivery on his/her options page. See
http://www.list.org/mailman-member/node20.html (or the whole manual at
http://www.list.org/mailman-member/mailman-member.html)

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lists at lastonepicked.com  Fri Jun  3 17:16:07 2005
From: lists at lastonepicked.com (Hunter Hillegas)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 08:16:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What Happened To The Message?
In-Reply-To: <PC174020050603074748026549c50839@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BEC5C247.7C40A%lists@lastonepicked.com>

Mark,

It showed up in the 'vette' log about 30 minutes later...

Strange, I've been sending to this list for awhile and it was discarded as
coming from a non-member.

I'm not sure what the hell changed here.


> From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
> Organization: Not Very Much
> Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 07:47:48 -0700
> To: Hunter Hillegas <lists at lastonepicked.com>, Mailman
> <mailman-users at python.org>
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] What Happened To The Message?
> 
> Hunter Hillegas wrote:
>> 
>> I can understand it taking a long time to process since the list is so large
>> but I guess I would expect to see a log entry, a lock, a qfile... Something
>> to indicate that the message didn't disappear into the ether.
> 
> That's correct. If the message were still in process, there would be at
> least one qfiles/ entry for it.
> 
> If you haven't, you might check the 'vette' log.
> 
> Otherwise, is it possible that the post contained a
> 
> X-BeenThere: <list address>
> 
> header. If the post was a reply or otherwise created from a prior post,
> it might have contained this. Most MUAs will remove it from a reply,
> but depending on how the message was created, it may have contained
> this header which would cause Mailman to ignore the post.
> 
> Otherwise, I'm out of ideas.
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  3 17:33:40 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 08:33:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Backing up list settings
In-Reply-To: <20050603135021.GI23884@ultra.le.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506030833400421c350acad@msapiro>

Matthew Newton wrote:
>
>In my system scripts, before I remove a list, I would like to backup the
>list including all settings and the mail archives.
>
>The machine is backed up every night, so this is "just in-case".
>
>Would the following be the right sort of thing? (To restore I guess I
>would create a list with the same name, stop Mailman, and then untar.)
>
>---8<---
>#! /bin/sh
>
>LIST=$1
>
>BACKUP="/var/lib/mailman/lists/$LIST"
>BACKUP="$BACKUP /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/$LIST"
>BACKUP="$BACKUP /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/$LIST.mbox"
>if [ -e "/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/$LIST" ]; then
>  BACKUP="$BACKUP /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/$LIST"
>fi
>
>tar zcvf - $BACKUP
>---8<---
>
>Usage something like:
>
>  ./backup-script listname > list-backup.tar.gz

Yes, This would back up everything you would need to restore the list
and its archives. It ignores the problem of partially processed
messages still in a queue, but this is not usually of much concern,
especially if you're shutting down the list.

One thing to add - to restore, you don't need to first create the list.
Just stop Mailman, untar and start Mailman. If you are really careful,
you could also shut down web access during the restore. This and the
stop/start are not mandatory, but temporary errors could occur if
messages or web activity came against the restored list when it was in
a partly restored state.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mcn4 at leicester.ac.uk  Fri Jun  3 17:49:12 2005
From: mcn4 at leicester.ac.uk (Matthew Newton)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 16:49:12 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Backing up list settings
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200506030833400421c350acad@msapiro>
References: <20050603135021.GI23884@ultra.le.ac.uk>
	<PC1740200506030833400421c350acad@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20050603154912.GK23884@ultra.le.ac.uk>

On Fri, Jun 03, 2005 at 08:33:40AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Matthew Newton wrote:
> >In my system scripts, before I remove a list, I would like to backup the
> >list including all settings and the mail archives.
> 
> Yes, This would back up everything you would need to restore the list
> and its archives. It ignores the problem of partially processed
> messages still in a queue, but this is not usually of much concern,
> especially if you're shutting down the list.

Great, thanks. You're right: I don't care about partially processed
messages, just subscriber (and their settings), the main list settings
and the archives.

Thanks!

-- 
Matthew Newton <mcn4 at le.ac.uk>

UNIX and e-mail Systems Administrator, Network Support Section,
Computer Centre, University of Leicester,
Leicester LE1 7RH, United Kingdom


From haack at nclack.k12.or.us  Fri Jun  3 18:07:41 2005
From: haack at nclack.k12.or.us (Robert Haack)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:07:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages not delivered
Message-ID: <42A0804D.6070707@nclack.k12.or.us>

I've been doing some testing and here is what I've found in addition to

what's below:

I sent a message to 6 lists titled test, testtwo, test3, test_4, test_5, 
and test_6.  On a consistent basis it appears that only 4 of these lists 
get the message.  If I look at my postfix log I see that the message was 
processed successfully yet when I look in the mailman/qfiles/in 
directory I only see the message come through to 4 of the 6 lists (I 
know this partly because the message get stuck in the que).  It's not 
the same 4 lists each time that the message comes through to either and 
there are no messages in any of the other directories under qfiles/.  I 
see nothing in the Mailman log files that indicates any error.  It's 
almost like postfix hands the message off to Mailman and then things go 
haywire.

Any ideas appreciated.

Thank You

Robert Haack
Programmer Analyst
North Clackamas School District #12
haack at nclack.k12.or.us



Robert Haack wrote:

>I'm still having issues when people post to multiple lists.  The message 
>will go to some of the lists but not all of the lists.  It not the same 
>list that this happens to all the time so I know it's not a particular 
>list.  For example I could send a message to list1, list2, list3, and 
>list4.  It might go to list1, list2, and list4, but not to list3 or it 
>might go to list1, list2, list3 but not list 4.  When I look in the 
>mailman post log I see that it sent it to those lists even though the 
>email lists all of the lists on it.  I've looked at the qrunner log and 
>the only thing in it for the last email that this happened to is the 
>following:
>
>May 31 11:52:52 2005 (6715) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 13022, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) 
>[restarting]
>May 31 11:52:53 2005 (19872) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
>
>The rest of the logs show nothing went wrong.
>
>At first I thought it was my stopping and restarting Mailman every that 
>might be causing the problem but that has proved false with the latest 
>email because I stopped that job.  The only other thing I notice is that 
>the lock files seem to hang around.  Here is a current list of my lock 
>files:
>
>Mailman Lock Directories
>-rw-rw-r--  2 mailman mailman 64 May 31  2005 /var/mailman/locks/middle_sch_prin.lock
>-rw-rw-r--  2 mailman mailman 64 May 31  2005 /var/mailman/locks/middle_sch_prin.lock.nclack.k12.or.us.19872.4
>-rw-rw-r--  2 mailman mailman 63 May 31  2005 /var/mailman/locks/middle_sch_sec.lock
>-rw-rw-r--  2 mailman mailman 63 May 31  2005 /var/mailman/locks/middle_sch_sec.lock.nclack.k12.or.us.15122.0
>-rw-rw-r--  2 mailman mailman 55 May 31  2005 /var/mailman/locks/nclack.lock
>-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman 55 May 31  2005 /var/mailman/locks/nclack.lock.nclack.k12.or.us.11183.2
>-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman 55 May 31  2005 /var/mailman/locks/nclack.lock.nclack.k12.or.us.15122.1
>-rw-rw-r--  2 mailman mailman 55 May 31  2005 /var/mailman/locks/nclack.lock.nclack.k12.or.us.19872.3
>-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman 55 May 31  2005 /var/mailman/locks/nclack.lock.nclack.k12.or.us.19872.5
>-rw-rw-r--  2 mailman mailman 60 May 31  2005 /var/mailman/locks/sr_high_sec.lock
>-rw-rw-r--  2 mailman mailman 60 May 31  2005 /var/mailman/locks/sr_high_sec.lock.nclack.k12.or.us.11183.1
>
>These are not overly busy lists so I know the server isn't having bottle 
>neck problems.
>
>Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
>
>TIA
>
>  
>


-- 
Robert Haack
Programmer Analyst
North Clackamas School District #12
haack at nclack.k12.or.us



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  3 18:08:08 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:08:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing "From"-Header in mailman created posts
In-Reply-To: <42A06884.9030603@faktor-e.de>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506030908080078be9c81b6@msapiro>

Garvin Hicking wrote:
>
>I want to use Mailman in a "posting-only" setup with a few hundred 
>users. Setup so far with mailman 2.1.6 on a Debian-Exim System  went 
>smooth so far.
>
>What I want now is that only one single user is allowed to post to the 
>list, all other users may only read what's posted. I can achieve this 
>via setting all but one member to "moderated". This one member can then 
>post to the list, and the list would use his email adress as the 
>mailinglist adress.
>
>The problem with this is that every user can now send mails to the list 
>by just faking the "From" Adress with that one posting user.


Set everyone moderated and use an Approved: header to post. See the FAQ
- article 3.11
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py


>The only way to bypass this seems to either:
>
>1.) Enable global moderation. That is a bit cumbersome since I have to 
>visit the admin panel each time I post a message. But then I can control 
>that no other user abuses the mail adress to post.

Post with an Approved: header - see above.

>2.) "Obfuscate" the posting user mail adress, so that users only see 
>"mailman at host" instead of "userXYZ at host". Since nobody sees/knows this 
>mail adress, this is fairly safe. However the drawback is that all mails 
>are now sent with the mail adress of the list: "mailman at host".
>
>Now I want to use method 2) but I also want that the From: Field looks like:
>
>From: "My personal newsletter" <mailman at host>
>
>The problem is I cannot get a way to pass this "My personal newsletter" 
>string into the headers. There seems to be no configuration directive 
>for this field, and it is always autogenerated via "From: 
>listname at hostname".
>
>Which core Python file would I need to hack to inject this descriptive 
>string? Or is there some other way to set an explicit "From" adress, so 
>that I can enter '"My Personal Newsletter" <mailman at host>' somewher in 
>the interface?

In Mailman 2.1.6, you should be able to just set anonymous_list to Yes
and list_description to My personal newsletter (in 2.1.6, the From:
for an anonymous list is "list_description <listname at hostname>").

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun  3 18:32:26 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:32:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages not delivered
In-Reply-To: <42A0804D.6070707@nclack.k12.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC174020050603093226037544133851@msapiro>

Robert Haack wrote:

>I've been doing some testing and here is what I've found in addition to
>
>what's below:
>
>I sent a message to 6 lists titled test, testtwo, test3, test_4, test_5, 
>and test_6.  On a consistent basis it appears that only 4 of these lists 
>get the message.  If I look at my postfix log I see that the message was 
>processed successfully yet when I look in the mailman/qfiles/in 
>directory I only see the message come through to 4 of the 6 lists (I 
>know this partly because the message get stuck in the que).  It's not 
>the same 4 lists each time that the message comes through to either and 
>there are no messages in any of the other directories under qfiles/.  I 
>see nothing in the Mailman log files that indicates any error.  It's 
>almost like postfix hands the message off to Mailman and then things go 
>haywire.

Does the postfix log show that the message was piped to the wrapper for
all 6 lists (i.e. six deliveries)?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From haack at nclack.k12.or.us  Fri Jun  3 19:03:03 2005
From: haack at nclack.k12.or.us (Robert Haack)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 10:03:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages not delivered
In-Reply-To: <PC174020050603093226037544133851@msapiro>
References: <PC174020050603093226037544133851@msapiro>
Message-ID: <42A08D47.7090707@nclack.k12.or.us>


>Robert Haack wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I've been doing some testing and here is what I've found in addition to
>>
>>what's below:
>>
>>I sent a message to 6 lists titled test, testtwo, test3, test_4, test_5, 
>>and test_6.  On a consistent basis it appears that only 4 of these lists 
>>get the message.  If I look at my postfix log I see that the message was 
>>processed successfully yet when I look in the mailman/qfiles/in 
>>directory I only see the message come through to 4 of the 6 lists (I 
>>know this partly because the message get stuck in the que).  It's not 
>>the same 4 lists each time that the message comes through to either and 
>>there are no messages in any of the other directories under qfiles/.  I 
>>see nothing in the Mailman log files that indicates any error.  It's 
>>almost like postfix hands the message off to Mailman and then things go 
>>haywire.
>>    
>>
>
>Does the postfix log show that the message was piped to the wrapper for
>all 6 lists (i.e. six deliveries)?
>
Mark,

I believe it does.  I've included the partial log for each of the 6 
lists I mentioned.  I didn't know if it would help any but I figured it 
was worth a shot.   The interesting thing I noticed was that testtwo, 
test3, and test_6 all show 2 bounces in the log file as well yet for 
both tests I ran today I actually got both messages from these 3 lists.  
I got one message for the list test_5 and it had one bounce.  I got 0 
bounces for list test and test_4.  I got one message to the test list 
and got none for list test_4. 

Jun  3 08:27:52 nclack postfix/local[23906]: 35B0C46A02: 
to=<test at nclack.k12.or.
us>, relay=local, delay=0, status=sent ("|/var/mailman/mail/mailman post 
test")
Jun  3 08:52:28 nclack postfix/local[27457]: DE71346A09: 
to=<test at nclack.k12.or.
us>, relay=local, delay=1, status=sent ("|/var/mailman/mail/mailman post 
test")

Jun  3 08:27:52 nclack postfix/local[23471]: 35B0C46A02: 
to=<testtwo at nclack.k12.
or.us>, relay=local, delay=0, status=sent ("|/var/mailman/mail/mailman 
post test
two")
Jun  3 08:42:28 nclack postfix/qmgr[1959]: A297846A02: 
from=<testtwo-bounces at ncl
ack.k12.or.us>, size=1707, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Jun  3 08:52:28 nclack postfix/local[27498]: DE71346A09: 
to=<testtwo at nclack.k12.
or.us>, relay=local, delay=1, status=sent ("|/var/mailman/mail/mailman 
post test
two")
Jun  3 08:52:31 nclack postfix/qmgr[1959]: 14DCF46A09: 
from=<testtwo-bounces at ncl
ack.k12.or.us>, size=1691, nrcpt=1 (queue active)

un  3 08:27:52 nclack postfix/local[23856]: 35B0C46A02: 
to=<test3 at nclack.k12.or
.us>, relay=local, delay=0, status=sent ("|/var/mailman/mail/mailman 
post test3"
)
Jun  3 08:27:54 nclack postfix/qmgr[1959]: 0FBA746A02: 
from=<test3-bounces at nclac
k.k12.or.us>, size=1735, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Jun  3 08:52:28 nclack postfix/local[27449]: DE71346A09: 
to=<test3 at nclack.k12.or
.us>, relay=local, delay=1, status=sent ("|/var/mailman/mail/mailman 
post test3"
)
Jun  3 08:55:00 nclack postfix/qmgr[1959]: 5DC8B46A08: 
from=<test3-bounces at nclac
k.k12.or.us>, size=1719, nrcpt=1 (queue active)

Jun  3 08:27:52 nclack postfix/local[24626]: 35B0C46A02: 
to=<test_4 at nclack.k12.o
r.us>, relay=local, delay=0, status=sent ("|/var/mailman/mail/mailman 
post test_
4")
Jun  3 08:52:28 nclack postfix/local[27456]: DE71346A09: 
to=<test_4 at nclack.k12.o
r.us>, relay=local, delay=1, status=sent ("|/var/mailman/mail/mailman 
post test_
4")

Jun  3 08:27:52 nclack postfix/local[24619]: 35B0C46A02: 
to=<test_5 at nclack.k12.o
r.us>, relay=local, delay=0, status=sent ("|/var/mailman/mail/mailman 
post test_
5")
Jun  3 08:52:28 nclack postfix/local[27443]: DE71346A09: 
to=<test_5 at nclack.k12.o
r.us>, relay=local, delay=1, status=sent ("|/var/mailman/mail/mailman 
post test_
5")
Jun  3 08:54:40 nclack postfix/qmgr[1959]: E864846A08: 
from=<test_5-bounces at ncla
ck.k12.or.us>, size=1736, nrcpt=1 (queue active)

Jun  3 08:27:52 nclack postfix/local[23882]: 35B0C46A02: 
to=<test_6 at nclack.k12.o
r.us>, relay=local, delay=0, status=sent ("|/var/mailman/mail/mailman 
post test_
6")
Jun  3 08:42:28 nclack postfix/qmgr[1959]: B0B2246A07: 
from=<test_6-bounces at ncla
ck.k12.or.us>, size=1752, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Jun  3 08:52:28 nclack postfix/local[27520]: DE71346A09: 
to=<test_6 at nclack.k12.o
r.us>, relay=local, delay=1, status=sent ("|/var/mailman/mail/mailman 
post test_
6")
Jun  3 08:54:40 nclack postfix/qmgr[1959]: 8F5E7469F4: 
from=<test_6-bounces at ncla
ck.k12.or.us>, size=1736, nrcpt=1 (queue active)

Thanks

Robert Haack


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Jun  3 20:26:05 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:26:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how can moderators automatically subscribe
 users?
In-Reply-To: <BEC5989E.5A89%jwblist@olympus.net>
References: <BEC5989E.5A89%jwblist@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <p0620070bbec650e9a803@[192.168.1.101]>

At 5:18 AM -0700 2005-06-03, John W. Baxter wrote:

>  As an RFE, allowing Approved: headers in this context would be a good thing
>  to ask for.

	Please feel free to file RFEs on the Mailman RFE page on 
SourceForge at 
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=350103>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From macbantam at ntlworld.com  Sat Jun  4 13:51:25 2005
From: macbantam at ntlworld.com (PeteBell)
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 12:51:25 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What is the problem when...
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200506030808450515c350ad10@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200506030808450515c350ad10@msapiro>
Message-ID: <85C46C33-ECE1-4AD1-84FE-FD9121BD0B3D@ntlworld.com>

Hi

What exactly are the possible problems when a batch of around 5 or 6  
list emails don't get sent out, but they DO appear in the archives?

And is there any reason why emails to a mailman list from Gmail  
accounts should not get sent out?

Cheers
Pete Bell, UK


From jwblist at olympus.net  Sat Jun  4 16:21:37 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 07:21:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What is the problem when...
In-Reply-To: <85C46C33-ECE1-4AD1-84FE-FD9121BD0B3D@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <BEC70701.5B18%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 6/4/05 4:51 AM, "PeteBell" <macbantam at ntlworld.com> wrote:

> And is there any reason why emails to a mailman list from Gmail
> accounts should not get sent out?

Well, Gmail inserts the very very long--and with few whitespace
interludes--domain keys header.  When I read one of those headers in Eudora
(Macintosh, of course), Eudora breaks it on screen in such a way that it
*appears* to break the header sequence.

That isn't so, as I found by widening the Eudora window across a screen and
a half...the header really is just one long line of--to be kind--stuff.

Mailman (probably the Python Email module) may be having trouble with that.

If the domain keys header is the problem, and it relates to the email
module, poor Barry...he just tuned that up.

  --John




From phil at swowd.com  Sat Jun  4 16:42:21 2005
From: phil at swowd.com (Phil)
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 10:42:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] OK, hopefully an easy question
Message-ID: <20050604144221.8E2791E400B@bag.python.org>

I have a mail list that keeps stopping messages because the poster has "too
many recipients"  The posts are fine with me, how do I allow them to pass
without me approving them?



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun  4 16:43:23 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 07:43:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What is the problem when...
In-Reply-To: <85C46C33-ECE1-4AD1-84FE-FD9121BD0B3D@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506040743230218b72e46f1@msapiro>

PeteBell wrote:
>
>What exactly are the possible problems when a batch of around 5 or 6  
>list emails don't get sent out, but they DO appear in the archives?

Hard to say. If a post gets to the archives, it should also have gotten
to the digest if any, and very little happens after that. Look in the
outgoing queue (qfiles/out/) and the shunt queue (qfiles/shunt/). Also
look in Mailman's 'error' and 'smtp-failure' logs.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun  4 17:45:40 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 08:45:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] OK, hopefully an easy question
In-Reply-To: <20050604144221.8E2791E400B@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506040845400390b72e47ae@msapiro>

Phil wrote:

>I have a mail list that keeps stopping messages because the poster has "too
>many recipients"  The posts are fine with me, how do I allow them to pass
>without me approving them?

The best way is to convince the poster to respect the privacy of
her/his other recipients and address them in a Bcc and thus not
broadcast their addresses to your list.

If that is not a solution for you, go to Privacy options...->Recipient
filters and set max_num_recipients to zero (meaning unlimited). 

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From watson.allen at gmail.com  Sat Jun  4 22:49:28 2005
From: watson.allen at gmail.com (Allen Watson)
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 13:49:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Listing bouncing addresses
In-Reply-To: <49fe91eca2d85afbf27ef150eae1f59f@onjapan.net>
References: <200504221444.50823.mmm@nv.jakaranda.co.za>
	<49fe91eca2d85afbf27ef150eae1f59f@onjapan.net>
Message-ID: <c4feebf50506041349377f5333@mail.gmail.com>

Is there no way way to do this either via the web interface or by
e-mail to the "request" address? I do not host the lists I administer,
and I need to get a listing of NOMAIL subscribers for several lists.
Perhaps some form of the "who" command?

On 4/24/05, Jim Tittsler <jwt at onjapan.net> wrote:
> On Apr 22, 2005, at 21:44, Nico wrote:
> 
> > How do I get a list of all the subscribers with a bounce score > 0
> > (and not
> > de-activated)?
> 
> You can use bin/withlist to review getBouncingMembers().  If you want
> details about last bounce, how many bounce notifications, you can use
> getBounceInfo(member):
> 
> $ bin/withlist mylist
>  >>> from Mailman.MemberAdaptor import ENABLED
>  >>> for member in m.getBouncingMembers():
> ...     if m.getDeliveryStatus(member) == ENABLED:
> ...         print member
> ...         print m.getBounceInfo(member)
> ...


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun  4 23:25:33 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 14:25:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Listing bouncing addresses
In-Reply-To: <c4feebf50506041349377f5333@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005060414253308754b96eccc@msapiro>

Allen Watson wrote:

>Is there no way way to do this either via the web interface or by
>e-mail to the "request" address? I do not host the lists I administer,
>and I need to get a listing of NOMAIL subscribers for several lists.
>Perhaps some form of the "who" command?

The closest thing you can do directly is get the list roster page
either from the listinfo page or directly at
http://www.example.com/mailman/roster/<listname>. This roster has
delivery-disabled members shown in parenthesis, but not the reason.

You can also script the web interface. See
http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#throughtheweb for an
example of a script to get the member list from the web. This could
probably be modified to show only those members with delivery disabled
for bouncing.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun  5 00:40:06 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 15:40:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Listing bouncing addresses
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005060414253308754b96eccc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC174020050604154006075046de39b4@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>You can also script the web interface. See
>http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#throughtheweb for an
>example of a script to get the member list from the web. This could
>probably be modified to show only those members with delivery disabled
>for bouncing.

A patch to add a {-n|--nomail} option to Jim's script is appended to
this mail. The option will list all members with delivery disabled for
any reason and doesn't report the reason. Maybe someone else wants to
try that. The patch works for the one list I tried it on.

Watch for 'folded lines'. There are a couple in the context, but I
think none in the added/changed code.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


--- mailman-subscribers.py      2005-03-05 18:00:12.406250000 -0800
+++ mailman-subscribers-nm.py   2005-06-04 15:20:23.531250000 -0700
@@ -11,6 +11,7 @@
 #                     of ClientCookie is detected
 # 2005-02-16 jwt    use Python 2.4's cookielib if it is available
 # 2005-02-27 jwt    only visit the roster page for letters that exist
+# 2005-06-04 mas    add --nomail option

 """List the email addresses subscribed to a mailing list, fetched from
web.

@@ -25,6 +26,10 @@
    -f
        Include the full names in the output.

+   --nomail
+   -n
+       List only no-mail members
+
    --verbose
    -v
        Include extra progress output.
@@ -94,6 +99,7 @@
     sys.exit(code)

 subscribers = {}
+nomails = {}
 maxchunk = 0
 letters = ['a']
 processed_letters = []
@@ -113,6 +119,15 @@
                     subname = v
             if s and not subscribers.has_key(subemail):
                 subscribers[subemail] = subname
+            t = False
+            for a,v in attrs:
+                if a == 'name' and v.endswith('_nomail'):
+                    nmemail = v[:-7]
+                    t = True
+                elif a == 'value':
+                    subnomail = v
+            if t and not nomails.has_key(nmemail):
+                nomails[nmemail] = subnomail
         if tag == 'a':
             for a,v in attrs:
                 if a == 'href' and v.find('/mailman/admin/'):
@@ -130,13 +145,14 @@
 def main():
     global maxchunk, letters
     try:
-        opts, args = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], "ho:fv",
-                ["help", "output=", "fullnames", "verbose"])
+        opts, args = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], "ho:fnv",
+                ["help", "output=", "fullnames", "nomail", "verbose"])
     except:
         usage(2)

     fp = sys.stdout
     fullnames = False
+    nomail = False
     verbose = False
     for o,a in opts:
         if o in ("-v", "--verbose"):
@@ -147,6 +163,8 @@
             fp = open(a, "wt")
         if o in ("-f", "--fullnames"):
             fullnames = True
+        if o in ("-n", "--nomail"):
+            nomail = True
     if len(args) != 3:
         usage(2)
     member_url = 'http://%s/mailman/admin/%s/members' % (args[0],
args[1])
@@ -183,6 +201,8 @@

     # print the subscribers list
     for (email, name) in subscriberlist:
+        if nomail and nomails[email] == "off":
+            continue
         if not fullnames or name == "":
             print >>fp, email
         else:



From dhwang at m-powered.com  Sun Jun  5 02:46:23 2005
From: dhwang at m-powered.com (David Hwang)
Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 20:46:23 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailmain Error - senddigests
Message-ID: <42A24B5F.3010909@m-powered.com>

Can someone direct me to where I should be looking for the cause of this 
error message?

Thanks,
David


Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 94, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 82, in main
    mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 128, in __init__
    self.Load()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 594, in Load
    dict, e = self.__load(file)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 560, in __load
    fp = open(dbfile)
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 
'/home/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck'
Job /usr/bin/python -S /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests terminated 
(exit status: 1) (mailing output)



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun  5 03:35:07 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 18:35:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailmain Error - senddigests
In-Reply-To: <42A24B5F.3010909@m-powered.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506041835070953ecd5d760@msapiro>

David Hwang wrote:

>Can someone direct me to where I should be looking for the cause of this 
>error message?
>
>Thanks,
>David
>
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 94, in ?
>    main()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 82, in main
>    mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 128, in __init__
>    self.Load()
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 594, in Load
>    dict, e = self.__load(file)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 560, in __load
>    fp = open(dbfile)
>IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 
>'/home/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck'
>Job /usr/bin/python -S /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests terminated 
>(exit status: 1) (mailing output)

The cron job senddigests does not have permission to access the
'mailman' (site list) configuration.

If this in a new installation, run 'bin/check_perms -f' as root (in the
/home/mailman/ directory) to fix permissions and/or make sure the
crontab is being run as the mailman user.

If this is an existing, working installation, check the
permissions/owner/group on /home/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dhwang at m-powered.com  Sun Jun  5 03:42:46 2005
From: dhwang at m-powered.com (David Hwang)
Date: Sat, 04 Jun 2005 21:42:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailmain Error - senddigests
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200506041835070953ecd5d760@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200506041835070953ecd5d760@msapiro>
Message-ID: <42A25896.5060804@m-powered.com>

Well, this has been running for awhile but I never bothered with the log 
files until now.  I just run a couple of small lists for our cub scout 
pack.  I don't even know if anyone uses digests.  It works fine for all 
the people, to the best of my knowledge.  But I'd like to get this error 
message from popping up everyday.

There is no bin directory under /home/mailman.

permissions on /home/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck are:

-rw-rw----   1   mailman   mailman

Does that give any clues?

Thanks,
David


Mark Sapiro wrote:

>The cron job senddigests does not have permission to access the
>'mailman' (site list) configuration.
>
>If this in a new installation, run 'bin/check_perms -f' as root (in the
>/home/mailman/ directory) to fix permissions and/or make sure the
>crontab is being run as the mailman user.
>
>If this is an existing, working installation, check the
>permissions/owner/group on /home/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>  
>


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun  5 04:05:47 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 19:05:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailmain Error - senddigests
In-Reply-To: <42A25896.5060804@m-powered.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506041905470281ecd5d4e8@msapiro>

David Hwang wrote:

>Well, this has been running for awhile but I never bothered with the log 
>files until now.  I just run a couple of small lists for our cub scout 
>pack.  I don't even know if anyone uses digests.  It works fine for all 
>the people, to the best of my knowledge.  But I'd like to get this error 
>message from popping up everyday.
>
>There is no bin directory under /home/mailman.

Maybe it's in /var/mailman. It could be anywhere depending on how
Mailman was installed. Try running

find / -name mailman

as root to locate the directory where the installed mailman software is.

>permissions on /home/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck are:
>
>-rw-rw----   1   mailman   mailman
>
>Does that give any clues?

Does the mailman crontab that runs the Mailman cron jobs run them as
user 'mailman'?

What are the permissions on the /home/mailman/lists/mailman/ directory
(presumably /home/mailman/lists/ is OK or lists wouldn't work)? They
are usually

drwxrwsr-x   2 root    mailman

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dhwang at m-powered.com  Sun Jun  5 12:45:41 2005
From: dhwang at m-powered.com (David Hwang)
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 06:45:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailmain Error - senddigests
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200506041905470281ecd5d4e8@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200506041905470281ecd5d4e8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <42A2D7D5.3010209@m-powered.com>



Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Maybe it's in /var/mailman. It could be anywhere depending on how
>Mailman was installed. Try running
>
>find / -name mailman
>
>as root to locate the directory where the installed mailman software is.
>
>  
>
I found the bin directory in /usr/lib/mailman:

root at m5 /usr/lib/mailman/bin# ./check_perms -f
No problems found

I remember doing this when I finished the installation as well.

>>permissions on /home/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck are:
>>
>>-rw-rw----   1   mailman   mailman
>>
>>Does that give any clues?
>>    
>>
>
>Does the mailman crontab that runs the Mailman cron jobs run them as
>user 'mailman'?
>  
>

Ah, ha.  This looks like the problem.  I've found the cron entries under 
/var/spool/fcron:

root at m5 /var/spool/fcron# ls -l
total 16
-rw-------    1 root     root          691 Jun  5 05:49 m5guru
-rw-r-----    1 fcron    fcron        1251 Oct 22  2004 m5guru.orig
-rw-------    1 root     root          507 Jun  5 05:49 root
-rw-------    1 root     fcron         420 Mar 23  2004 root.orig


It looks like they are being run under m5guru.orig:

root at m5 /var/spool/fcron# cat m5guru.orig
# At 8AM every day, mail reminders to admins as to pending requests.
# They are less likely to ignore these reminders if they're mailed
# early in the morning, but of course, this is local time... ;)
0 8 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs
#
# At 9AM, send notifications to disabled members that are due to be
# reminded to re-enable their accounts.
0 9 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /usr/lib/mailman/cron/disabled
#
# Noon, mail digests for lists that do periodic as well as threshhold 
delivery.
0 12 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests
#
# 5 AM on the first of each month, mail out password reminders.
0 5 1 * * /usr/bin/python -S /usr/lib/mailman/cron/mailpasswds
#
# Every 5 mins, try to gate news to mail.  You can comment this one out
# if you don't want to allow gating, or don't have any going on right now,
# or want to exclusively use a callback strategy instead of polling.
#0,5,10,15,20,25,30,35,40,45,50,55 * * * * /usr/bin/python -S 
/usr/lib/mailman/cron/gate_news
#
# At 3:27am every night, regenerate the gzip'd archive file.  Only
# turn this on if the internal archiver is used and
# GZIP_ARCHIVE_TXT_FILES is false in mm_cfg.py
27 3 * * * /usr/bin/python -S /usr/lib/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip


So it looks like I've just got to transfer these jobs to run under 
userid=mailman.

Now I've just got to figure out how to do that with 'fcron'


>What are the permissions on the /home/mailman/lists/mailman/ directory
>(presumably /home/mailman/lists/ is OK or lists wouldn't work)? They
>are usually
>
>drwxrwsr-x   2 root    mailman
>
>  
>

The permissions are a little bit different.  Should this make a difference?:

drwxrwsr-x    2 mailman  mailman      4096 Nov  4  2004 mailman/

>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>  
>


Thanks for all of your help.

David Hwang


From macbantam at ntlworld.com  Sun Jun  5 16:13:06 2005
From: macbantam at ntlworld.com (PeteBell)
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:13:06 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Missing digests
Message-ID: <0AEE7AFB-49A7-4D97-8D5F-9BDBC296EF74@ntlworld.com>

Why should some digests miss out?

I have members asking where particular digests missed out, and when I  
look, there seems to be no reason why they weren't sent (ie, there  
WERE messages available to the digest, but it just didn't go. As a  
result, my digest members miss 12-20 messages every now and then.

Cheers
Pete Bell, UK  (no access to the Mailman installation)


From dhwang at m-powered.com  Sun Jun  5 16:15:22 2005
From: dhwang at m-powered.com (David Hwang)
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 10:15:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailmain Error
In-Reply-To: <42A2D7D5.3010209@m-powered.com>
References: <PC1740200506041905470281ecd5d4e8@msapiro>
	<42A2D7D5.3010209@m-powered.com>
Message-ID: <42A308FA.9060004@m-powered.com>

Well, I got the cron file to start reading correctly, but now I get a 
different error:

08:00:00 Could not chdir to HOME dir "/var/mailman": No such file or directory
Job /usr/bin/python -S /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs terminated (exit status: 1) (mailing output)


There is indeed no /var/mailman directory.  I think it is looking for /home/mailman.

I couldn't find HOME defined anywhere like Defaults.py or mm_cfg.py.

Is there somewhere else I should be looking to change this variable?  Or can I override whatever the default is in mm_cfg.py?

Thanks,
David



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun  5 17:14:57 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 08:14:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailmain Error
In-Reply-To: <42A308FA.9060004@m-powered.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005060508145708281cbb9495@msapiro>

David Hwang wrote:

>Well, I got the cron file to start reading correctly, but now I get a 
>different error:
>
>08:00:00 Could not chdir to HOME dir "/var/mailman": No such file or directory
>Job /usr/bin/python -S /usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs terminated (exit status: 1) (mailing output)
>

This may still be an issue with the cron since before, it was able to
find the lists/ directory and in particular
/home/mailman/lists/mailman/config.pck


>
>There is indeed no /var/mailman directory.  I think it is looking for /home/mailman.
>
>I couldn't find HOME defined anywhere like Defaults.py or mm_cfg.py.
>
>Is there somewhere else I should be looking to change this variable?  Or can I override whatever the default is in mm_cfg.py?
>


Check the home directory for the mailman user in the /etc/passwd file.
I think the error must be something like that. The Defaults.py
variables are PREFIX, EXEC_PREFIX and VAR_PREFIX, but they are set by
configure and have to be OK if lists are generally working.  

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun  5 17:23:58 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 08:23:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Missing digests
In-Reply-To: <0AEE7AFB-49A7-4D97-8D5F-9BDBC296EF74@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005060508235804371cbb930f@msapiro>

PeteBell wrote:

>Why should some digests miss out?
>
>I have members asking where particular digests missed out, and when I  
>look, there seems to be no reason why they weren't sent (ie, there  
>WERE messages available to the digest, but it just didn't go. As a  
>result, my digest members miss 12-20 messages every now and then.

Are they missing or not produced? I.e.,

Did all or only some digest members not receive them?

Is there a gap in numbering? I.e., are Vol x, Issue y and Vol x, Issue
y+2 received, but not Issue y+1, or is it that Vol x, Issue y+1 just
doesn't come until a day or two later?


>Cheers
>Pete Bell, UK  (no access to the Mailman installation)

Without access to logs, it will be hard to know what's happening.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From carfield at carfield.com.hk  Sun Jun  5 20:08:42 2005
From: carfield at carfield.com.hk (Carfield Yim)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 02:08:42 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration from Linux to MacOSX
Message-ID: <d7vesi$7ui$1@sea.gmane.org>

I need to do the migration from Linux to MacOSX, can anyone point me to
some document of how to do this?



From heather at madrone.com  Sun Jun  5 22:41:23 2005
From: heather at madrone.com (Heather Madrone)
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 13:41:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration from Linux to MacOSX
In-Reply-To: <d7vesi$7ui$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <d7vesi$7ui$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <p06210289bec90f94bc37@[192.168.123.100]>

At 2:08 AM +0800 6/6/05, Carfield Yim wrote:
>I need to do the migration from Linux to MacOSX, can anyone point me to
>some document of how to do this?

I'm running Mailman on OSX 10.2.8.  The setup was straightforward
Installation varies depending on which version of OSX you're running,
and your preferred MTA.  For some reason, a lot of versions of OSX
come with sendmail preinstalled while others have postfix or nothing.

The Mailman documentation at <http://www.list.org/docs.html> is
excellent and comprehensive.  Use the FAQ Wizard to find
specific information on moving lists.  The information on OSX
is somewhat scanty, but the general information is very good.

Mac users are also good at putting step-by-step how-to information up
on the web (indeed, one might say that Apple relies on its users for
good documentation).  A Google query for the specific task you're
trying to do will probably help more than me sharing the documentation
I used to get Mailman and exim set up on jaguar.

A lot of things on the Mac are non-Unix-standard because the Mac
has a schizophrenic operating system.  Part of it is pure BSD Unix,
but the rest of it is pure Mac native.  Many things, like starting systems
services, setting up networking, creating a caching name server, and
other things that you might expect to be vanilla Unix, have at least
a couple of strange twists on the Mac.

Apache set-up on the Mac is easier than on any other Unix system
I've tried. 

-- 
Heather Madrone  (heather at madrone.com)  http://www.madrone.com

Whenever a question asks "Either / or?"
The answer is usually "Both...and more." 



From mengland at mengland.net  Mon Jun  6 02:31:17 2005
From: mengland at mengland.net (Matt England)
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 19:31:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Outbound smtp email problems (qmail problems)
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20050516185255.04a305c8@127.0.0.1>
References: <6.1.2.0.2.20050515224711.068b2e20@127.0.0.1>
	<PC1740200505160745040093be2175e1@msapiro>
	<6.1.2.0.2.20050516185255.04a305c8@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20050605192841.084576b8@127.0.0.1>

For those who may have been tracking this saga:

My Mailman-SMTP problems stemmed from my non-root system accounts having no 
ability to resolve localhost to my machines IP address...because there was 
no non-root read permission set for /etc/hosts.  (My 'telnet localhost 25' 
tests were all previously run from the root account, and as soon as I 
finally ran it from a non-root account, then the problem root cause finally 
reared its simple, little, ugly head.)

Yes, this is a terribly disgusting thing to learn that I spent so much 
blood, sweat, and tears on such a silly system flaw.

-Matt


At 5/16/2005 06:57 PM, Matt England wrote:
>At 5/16/2005 09:45 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>Matt England wrote:
>>
>> >It seems there's some problem with my SMTP server...I'm just trying to
>> >figure out what it is or how I can reproduce it other then keeping to point
>> >Mailman or phpBB forums at it (both fail for SMTP localhost connections).
>>
>>The symptoms you have described do not really arise at the level of
>>Mailman code, even in SMTPDirect.py. If this is not strictly a qmail
>>issue, the problems probably occur in the interface between the Python
>>library and qmail, not in Mailman. Did you update or change Python
>>coincident with the start of these troubles?
>
>Not that I'm aware of.
>
>Note that phpBB is experiencing similar problems, and it is php based and 
>not python based.
>
>This further points the finger at qmail...or at least both php-to-qmail 
>and python-to-qmail.
>
>Care to offer any suggestions about how I can isolate these php-to-qmail 
>and python-to-qmail problems...with like test scripts?  How do I write it, 
>and/or do simple, stand-alone scripts already exist?  Can someone write me one?
>
>I realize I'm asking a lot from a Mailman group to help solve an apparent 
>qmail problem...and for what it's worth, I just lobbed as massive email 
>over to the official qmail discussion list (qmail at list.cr.yp.to), too (I 
>had previously been posting to forum.qmailrocks.org).
>
>I'm also in discussion with Brad K. about a switch to postfix.
>
>(Note that another post shows how a 'telnet lists.biz2tek.com 25' outbound 
>email works ok.)
>
>>In another post, you mentioned using Sendmail.py. I hope you have read
>>and carefully considered all the comments in that module.
>
>Yes, I did.  Sendmail.py is only a temporary solution, possibly only for 
>debugging purposes so that I could prove that Mailman (and outbound email 
>in general) was working.
>
>-Matt



From prosmart at jamesons.com.au  Mon Jun  6 02:38:10 2005
From: prosmart at jamesons.com.au (Nigel Allen)
Date: 06 Jun 2005 10:38:10 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Missing pending requests
Message-ID: <1118018289.4823.1767.camel@sydsrv04>

Hi all

Ever since we had a screwed up mailman list and corrected it, we have
been getting the message below.


> The xxx at foo.bar mailing list has 2 request(s) waiting
> for your consideration at:
> 
>         http://www.foo.bar/mailman/admindb/mailman
>         
> Please attend to this at your earliest convenience.  This notice of
> pending requests, if any, will be sent out daily.
> 

We've deleted the xxx mailing list and recreated it but still get the
same message every morning.

Can anyone enlighten me as to what triggers this please? I just want to
get rid of them. They were an "accidental" subscribe

TIA

Nigel.


-- 
Nigel Allen, Snr Consultant, ProSmart Consulting Australia
48 Tiarri Avenue, Terrey Hills, NSW 2084, Australia
Tel: +61 2 9450 2690  Fax: +61 2 9450 2691 Mob: +61 4 1494 5269
http://www.prosmart.com.au



From prosmart at jamesons.com.au  Mon Jun  6 02:44:09 2005
From: prosmart at jamesons.com.au (Nigel Allen)
Date: 06 Jun 2005 10:44:09 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Missing pending requests
In-Reply-To: <1118018289.4823.1767.camel@sydsrv04>
References: <1118018289.4823.1767.camel@sydsrv04>
Message-ID: <1118018647.4823.1776.camel@sydsrv04>


Sorry - should have added:

Follow the link in the notification email but get a:


> Mailman Administrative Database
> There are no pending requests.


N/


On Mon, 2005-06-06 at 10:38, Nigel Allen wrote:
> Hi all
> 
> Ever since we had a screwed up mailman list and corrected it, we have
> been getting the message below.
> 
> 
> > The xxx at foo.bar mailing list has 2 request(s) waiting
> > for your consideration at:
> > 
> >         http://www.foo.bar/mailman/admindb/mailman
> >         
> > Please attend to this at your earliest convenience.  This notice of
> > pending requests, if any, will be sent out daily.
> > 
> 
> We've deleted the xxx mailing list and recreated it but still get the
> same message every morning.
> 
> Can anyone enlighten me as to what triggers this please? I just want to
> get rid of them. They were an "accidental" subscribe
> 
> TIA
> 
> Nigel.
-- 
Nigel Allen, Snr Consultant, ProSmart Consulting Australia
48 Tiarri Avenue, Terrey Hills, NSW 2084, Australia
Tel: +61 2 9450 2690  Fax: +61 2 9450 2691 Mob: +61 4 1494 5269
http://www.prosmart.com.au



From mengland at mengland.net  Mon Jun  6 02:49:54 2005
From: mengland at mengland.net (Matt England)
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 19:49:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A plug for Mailman-phpBB-Mail2Forum.com-qmail
	integration
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20050605193130.0847f4b8@127.0.0.1>

Hello Mailman admins,

I recently configured an email and web server serving phpBB and Mailman to 
"bridge" email lists to phpBB forums.  This includes managing attachments 
between the forums and email lists.

This works so well that I thought I would share.

It's really really really really really cool.  Did I mention it was really 
cool?

It makes every email-list archive mechanism look foolish, imho, and it has 
the added benefit of taking all the phpBB posts and sending them to the 
email list as well.  Among other things, this allows an existing 
phpBB-based community (and all of its discussion content) to transparently 
integration with a Mailman-based community...all while both sides not 
knowing that the other side was plugged in (other then seeing new 
discussion content/posts/emails from new users from "the other side")!  No 
more segregation between forum-based and email-based communities talking 
about the same thing (or at least, the technical obstacles seem to now have 
been greatly lowered).

One can also import existing Mailman archives to a phpBB forum via Mail2Forum.

I realize there are references to Mail2Forum.com already in the GNU Mailman 
FAQ, but I thought it worth mentioning here again, given that I just got my 
"virtual domain" server running all this stuff, seemingly quite 
well.  (However...it's a private server, behind an SSL "firewall", so I'm 
not inclined to open things up to a public demo/usage...yet.)

I have a placeholder info doc here:

http://www.mail2forum.com/wiki/index.php?page=Mail2Forum-phpBB-qmail-GNUMailman-Apache%20integration

One can also find lots more info here:

http://www.mail2forum.com/
http://www.mail2forum.com/forums/

A side note:

if you want to manage virtual domains on your server, then qmail's 
functionality far surpasses postfix's implementation.  qmail's vpopmail is 
soooooo easy to manage (once you get the thing setup, of course), AND it 
has the .qmail files for STDIN content forwarding needed for the above 
stuff (unless you want to hack it with cron jobs), while postfix virtual 
domains setup takes much configuration with maps and even then can not 
support .forward/.qmail based stuff.  I have both installed on my server 
and have tested them, and qmail is the clear winner.

Granted, the qmail architecture seems to be growing older and more 
antiquated every day, but until Postfix can get it's 
virtual-domain-management house in order, there's really no choice for me.

-Matt



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  6 03:18:28 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 18:18:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Missing pending requests
In-Reply-To: <1118018647.4823.1776.camel@sydsrv04>
Message-ID: <PC174020050605181828028104387af5@msapiro>

Nigel Allen wrote:
>
>Sorry - should have added:
>
>Follow the link in the notification email but get a:
>
>
>> Mailman Administrative Database
>> There are no pending requests.
>
>
>N/
>
>
>On Mon, 2005-06-06 at 10:38, Nigel Allen wrote:
>> Hi all
>> 
>> Ever since we had a screwed up mailman list and corrected it, we have
>> been getting the message below.
>> 
>> 
>> > The xxx at foo.bar mailing list has 2 request(s) waiting
>> > for your consideration at:
>> > 
>> >         http://www.foo.bar/mailman/admindb/mailman
>> >         
>> > Please attend to this at your earliest convenience.  This notice of
>> > pending requests, if any, will be sent out daily.
>> > 
>> 
>> We've deleted the xxx mailing list and recreated it but still get the
>> same message every morning.
>> 
>> Can anyone enlighten me as to what triggers this please? I just want to
>> get rid of them. They were an "accidental" subscribe
>> 

Both cron/checkdbs which sends the daily reminder and Cgi/admindb.py
which produces the

>> Mailman Administrative Database
>> There are no pending requests.

message use the exact same method mlist.NumPendingRequests() to
determine how many requests there are. I don't see how they can
produce different results unless they are somehow importing different
versions of ListAdmin.py where the NumPendingRequests() method is
defined.

There was a change from 2.1.4 to 2.1.5. The earlier versions keep the
requests in a marshal lists/<listname>/request.db, and 2.1.5 and up
keep them in a pickle lists/<listname>/request.pck.

Do you possibly have an older Mailman version in a different location
and referenced by the cron jobs?

One thing you can do is go to the lists/<listname>/ directory and
remove request\.* and then go to the admindb page for the list which
will create a new request.pck (assuming 2.1.5+) just by virtue of your
visiting the page. This may help.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jwblist at olympus.net  Mon Jun  6 03:34:31 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 18:34:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration from Linux to MacOSX
In-Reply-To: <p06210289bec90f94bc37@[192.168.123.100]>
Message-ID: <BEC8F637.5B79%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 6/5/05 1:41 PM, "Heather Madrone" <heather at madrone.com> wrote:

> I'm running Mailman on OSX 10.2.8.  The setup was straightforward
> Installation varies depending on which version of OSX you're running,
> and your preferred MTA.  For some reason, a lot of versions of OSX
> come with sendmail preinstalled while others have postfix or nothing.

sendmail was in the earlier versions of Mac OS X.  Postfix--instead--showed
up in either Jaguar or Panther (I ignored it in Jaguar).  A positive change,
IMHO.  I haven't gone beyond the setup produced for me by the third party
"Postfix Enabler".

  --John




From prosmart at jamesons.com.au  Mon Jun  6 03:40:30 2005
From: prosmart at jamesons.com.au (Nigel Allen)
Date: 06 Jun 2005 11:40:30 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Missing pending requests
In-Reply-To: <PC174020050605181828028104387af5@msapiro>
References: <PC174020050605181828028104387af5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1118022029.4823.1783.camel@sydsrv04>


Thanks for the advice.

Check and definitely do not have an old version of Mailman and only one
version of ListAdmin.py.

Blew away the request.pck, reloaded admin page and then reran checkdbs -
all clear now.

Possible explanation: I previously had some host names and aliases
misconfigured and suspect that that might have the problem. When I fixed
that I still had the mailman list pointing to the wrong host.

Thanks for the quick response.

Antipodean Rgds

Nigel.



On Mon, 2005-06-06 at 11:18, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Nigel Allen wrote:
> >
> >Sorry - should have added:
> >
> >Follow the link in the notification email but get a:
> >
> >
> >> Mailman Administrative Database
> >> There are no pending requests.
> >
> >
> >N/
> >
> >
> >On Mon, 2005-06-06 at 10:38, Nigel Allen wrote:
> >> Hi all
> >> 
> >> Ever since we had a screwed up mailman list and corrected it, we have
> >> been getting the message below.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> > The xxx at foo.bar mailing list has 2 request(s) waiting
> >> > for your consideration at:
> >> > 
> >> >         http://www.foo.bar/mailman/admindb/mailman
> >> >         
> >> > Please attend to this at your earliest convenience.  This notice of
> >> > pending requests, if any, will be sent out daily.
> >> > 
> >> 
> >> We've deleted the xxx mailing list and recreated it but still get the
> >> same message every morning.
> >> 
> >> Can anyone enlighten me as to what triggers this please? I just want to
> >> get rid of them. They were an "accidental" subscribe
> >> 
> 
> Both cron/checkdbs which sends the daily reminder and Cgi/admindb.py
> which produces the
> 
> >> Mailman Administrative Database
> >> There are no pending requests.
> 
> message use the exact same method mlist.NumPendingRequests() to
> determine how many requests there are. I don't see how they can
> produce different results unless they are somehow importing different
> versions of ListAdmin.py where the NumPendingRequests() method is
> defined.
> 
> There was a change from 2.1.4 to 2.1.5. The earlier versions keep the
> requests in a marshal lists/<listname>/request.db, and 2.1.5 and up
> keep them in a pickle lists/<listname>/request.pck.
> 
> Do you possibly have an older Mailman version in a different location
> and referenced by the cron jobs?
> 
> One thing you can do is go to the lists/<listname>/ directory and
> remove request\.* and then go to the admindb page for the list which
> will create a new request.pck (assuming 2.1.5+) just by virtue of your
> visiting the page. This may help.
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
-- 
Nigel Allen, Snr Consultant, ProSmart Consulting Australia
48 Tiarri Avenue, Terrey Hills, NSW 2084, Australia
Tel: +61 2 9450 2690  Fax: +61 2 9450 2691 Mob: +61 4 1494 5269
http://www.prosmart.com.au



From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Mon Jun  6 04:31:59 2005
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 21:31:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration from Linux to MacOSX
In-Reply-To: <p06210289bec90f94bc37@[192.168.123.100]>
Message-ID: <BEC91FCF.AD5E%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 6/5/05 3:41 PM, Heather Madrone at heather at madrone.com wrote:

> I'm running Mailman on OSX 10.2.8.  The setup was straightforward
> Installation varies depending on which version of OSX you're running,
> and your preferred MTA.  For some reason, a lot of versions of OSX
> come with sendmail preinstalled while others have postfix or nothing.

MacOSX through Jaguar (10.2.x) came with sendmail. Panther (10.3.x) and
later comes with Postfix.

Lots of stuff available if you search on setting up mailman on Jaguar or
Panther. I also have it running on Tiger on my test system. That was an
upgrade from Panther and involved minimal work to get it working again
(primarily in the Apache configuration). I hope to get it documented soon.

-- Larry Stone
   lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
   http://www.stonejongleux.com/




From lists at lastonepicked.com  Mon Jun  6 04:47:36 2005
From: lists at lastonepicked.com (Hunter Hillegas)
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 19:47:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Members Getting Multiple Copies?
Message-ID: <BEC90758.7CBE3%lists@lastonepicked.com>

I have an announce only list on MM2.1.5 running on RHEL3.

I have had several members complain that they are getting multiple copies of
each message from the list.

I checked to make sure that these folks were not subscribed more than once.

Any ideas what could cause this?

Thanks,
Hunter




From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  6 05:36:12 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:36:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Members Getting Multiple Copies?
In-Reply-To: <BEC90758.7CBE3%lists@lastonepicked.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506052036120906516a9956@msapiro>

Hunter Hillegas wrote:

>I have an announce only list on MM2.1.5 running on RHEL3.
>
>I have had several members complain that they are getting multiple copies of
>each message from the list.
>
>I checked to make sure that these folks were not subscribed more than once.
>
>Any ideas what could cause this?

This is unlikely to be a mailman problem, but assuming that only some
and not all members are getting duplicates, the duplicates could be
generated by Mailman or the outbound MTA or anywhere from there to the
user. You can narrow it down somewhat by comparing Received: headers
between the two duplicates. If you determine that two copies were sent
from your outbound MTA, it could be there or in Mailman.

You then need to look at logs. Mailman's 'smtp' and perhaps
'smtp-failure' logs can incriminate or rule out Mailman or the
Mailman/MTA interface. Beyond that you have to look at MTA logs.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jean-philippe.giola at st.com  Mon Jun  6 09:22:41 2005
From: jean-philippe.giola at st.com (Jean-Philippe GIOLA)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 09:22:41 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PRIVATE AND PUBLIC EXTERNAL ARCHIVER
Message-ID: <42A3F9C1.20404@st.com>

HI all

When you use the private or public external archiver, are mails arrives 
one to one ?
and what their form when they arrive ?

reguards

-- 
Jean-Philippe Giola - 6577




From jean-philippe.giola at st.com  Mon Jun  6 14:08:13 2005
From: jean-philippe.giola at st.com (Jean-Philippe GIOLA)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 14:08:13 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mbox + references field
Message-ID: <42A43CAD.9040204@st.com>

HI all

In the mailman mbox archives, there is sometimes a "References" field 
for mails.
Why does this field not present for all mails ???
when I say "present", I mean "present" for all answer to mails.
I understand very weel that the first mail of a new thread can't have a 
reference field.

reguards

-- 
Cordialement,
Jean-Philippe Giola - 6577




From mailbag at anothernet.com  Mon Jun  6 16:01:50 2005
From: mailbag at anothernet.com (Mailbag)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 10:01:50 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-subscribed distribution list?
Message-ID: <LNBBINKPFIPECAIJEJLNGECIEAAA.mailbag@anothernet.com>

I'm a brand new user of Mailman currently scoping out its capabilities.  I
apologize if this question is out of line for this forum.  I've searched the
FAQ and the web in general but haven't found my answer.

We need a mailing list that is just a distribution list.  Here's the deal:
We have a neighborhood committee that's composed of several individuals.  We
would like to have a single address that any resident can send e-mail to.
That single address would then turn into the several addresses belonging to
the committee members.  The distribution list cannot require the sender of
the message to subscribe.  It needs to be an open list.

So, I have two questions:

1.  Is this possible with Mailman?

2.  If yes, can you please point me in the general direction (docs, etc), so
I can find out the full answer myself?

Thanks in advance!

Adolfo




From greg at anastasia.ru  Mon Jun  6 16:39:15 2005
From: greg at anastasia.ru (Grigory Fateyev)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 18:39:15 +0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + postfix with mysql
Message-ID: <20050606183915.0415bcea@home.greg.com.ru>

Hello!

I have good working mailsystem: postfix with mysql. Now I need mailman
install.

#### main.cf
alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
virtual_alias_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman,       
mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf

-rw-r-----  1 root list 12288 Jun  6 17:18
/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db

-rw-r--r--  1 list list 12288 Jun  6 17:18
/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman.db

#### aliases and virtual-mailman
# STANZA START: selsovet
# CREATED: Mon Jun  6 17:18:48 2005
selsovet:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post selsovet"
selsovet-admin:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin selsovet"
selsovet-bounces:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces selsovet"
selsovet-confirm:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm selsovet"
selsovet-join:        "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join selsovet"
selsovet-leave:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave selsovet"
selsovet-owner:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner selsovet"
selsovet-request:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request selsovet"
selsovet-subscribe:   "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe
selsovet" selsovet-unsubscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman
unsubscribe selsovet" # STANZA END: selsovet

but at that time I have:
Jun  6 17:25:46 megre postfix/smtpd[14520]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from
unknown[62.33.35.93]: 550 <selsovet at anastasia.ru>: Recipient address
rejected: User unknown in virtual mailbox table;
from=<greg at anastasia.ru> to=<selsovet at anastasia.ru> proto=ESMTP
helo=<mydomain.ru>

Why can not correct install mailman?

-- 
????? ??????????!
greg_[at]_anastasia_[dot]_ru ????????.
http://counter.li.org/ registered Linux user #389407


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  6 17:08:56 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 08:08:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mbox + references field
In-Reply-To: <42A43CAD.9040204@st.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506060808560640dd361238@msapiro>

Jean-Philippe GIOLA wrote:
>
>In the mailman mbox archives, there is sometimes a "References" field 
>for mails.
>Why does this field not present for all mails ???
>when I say "present", I mean "present" for all answer to mails.
>I understand very weel that the first mail of a new thread can't have a 
>reference field.

References: and In-Reply-To: headers are optional and are added to a
reply by the sender's MUA. Any particular MUA will add one, the other,
both or neither, although RFC 2822 says

   Though optional, every message SHOULD have a "Message-ID:" field.
   Furthermore, reply messages SHOULD have "In-Reply-To:" and
   "References:" fields as appropriate, as described below.

(section 3.6.4).

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  6 17:19:51 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 08:19:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-subscribed distribution list?
In-Reply-To: <LNBBINKPFIPECAIJEJLNGECIEAAA.mailbag@anothernet.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506060819510625dd361224@msapiro>

Mailbag (Adolpho) wrote:
>
>We need a mailing list that is just a distribution list.  Here's the deal:
>We have a neighborhood committee that's composed of several individuals.  We
>would like to have a single address that any resident can send e-mail to.
>That single address would then turn into the several addresses belonging to
>the committee members.  The distribution list cannot require the sender of
>the message to subscribe.  It needs to be an open list.
>
>So, I have two questions:
>
>1.  Is this possible with Mailman?

Yes, The committe members subscribe to the list, subscription can be
open or closed as you prefer. Set generic_nonmember_action to accept
and anyone can post.

>2.  If yes, can you please point me in the general direction (docs, etc), so
>I can find out the full answer myself?

See http://www.list.org/admins.html (mirrored at
http://mailman.sourceforge.net/admins.html and
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/admins.html)

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From billl at inetmsg.com  Mon Jun  6 18:58:41 2005
From: billl at inetmsg.com (Bill Landry)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 09:58:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] First-time poster...
Message-ID: <026901c56ab8$fe359ba0$43c6e2a5@blxp>

Hello list members!

I have setup a list server running on Fedora Core 2, with Postfix 2.2.3, 
Mailman 2.1.5, and Python 2.3.4.  I think I followed the Mailman setup and 
configuration guidelines correctly, but am having a problem that I cannot 
find resolution to via google nor by a search of the Mailman list archives.

When sending a message to a test list, the message sits in the queue and 
Postfix reports in the maillog:

Jun  6 09:04:55 lists postfix/qmgr[19892]: E16EA6FE2C: 
from=<test-bounces at lists.siemensmedical.com>, size=1215, nrcpt=1 (queue 
active)
Jun  6 09:04:55 lists postfix/local[19915]: warning: cannot find alias 
database owner for hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases(0,34100)

The permissions on the aliases* files are:

ls -l /usr/local/mailman/data/alias*
-rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman 107000 Jun  6 08:59 aliases
-rw-r-----  1 mailman mailman 167936 Jun  6 08:59 aliases.db

If anyone has any suggestions on how I might resolve this, I would greatly 
appreciate the feedback.

Regards,

Bill 



From carfield at carfield.com.hk  Mon Jun  6 19:06:04 2005
From: carfield at carfield.com.hk (Carfield Yim)
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 01:06:04 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration from Linux to MacOSX
In-Reply-To: <p06210289bec90f94bc37@[192.168.123.100]>
References: <d7vesi$7ui$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<p06210289bec90f94bc37@[192.168.123.100]>
Message-ID: <d81vit$1vb$1@sea.gmane.org>


>I'm running Mailman on OSX 10.2.8.  The setup was straightforward
>Installation varies depending on which version of OSX you're running,
>and your preferred MTA.  For some reason, a lot of versions of OSX
>come with sendmail preinstalled while others have postfix or nothing.
>
>The Mailman documentation at <http://www.list.org/docs.html> is
>excellent and comprehensive.  Use the FAQ Wizard to find
>specific information on moving lists.  The information on OSX
>is somewhat scanty, but the general information is very good.
>
>Mac users are also good at putting step-by-step how-to information up
>on the web (indeed, one might say that Apple relies on its users for
>good documentation).  A Google query for the specific task you're
>trying to do will probably help more than me sharing the documentation
>I used to get Mailman and exim set up on jaguar.
>
>A lot of things on the Mac are non-Unix-standard because the Mac
>has a schizophrenic operating system.  Part of it is pure BSD Unix,
>but the rest of it is pure Mac native.  Many things, like starting systems
>services, setting up networking, creating a caching name server, and
>other things that you might expect to be vanilla Unix, have at least
>a couple of strange twists on the Mac.
>
>Apache set-up on the Mac is easier than on any other Unix system
>I've tried. 
>
>  
>
Thx for the information, however I get problem from the starting...
where can I download the binary of mailman? I just have a mac mini which
don't come with make and gcc. Besides, as I don't have other software
need to compile, I would like prevent this process, do you know anywhere
can download the binary?



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  6 19:16:49 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 10:16:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] First-time poster...
In-Reply-To: <026901c56ab8$fe359ba0$43c6e2a5@blxp>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506061016490781719eb5fe@msapiro>

Bill Landry wrote:
>
>I have setup a list server running on Fedora Core 2, with Postfix 2.2.3, 
>Mailman 2.1.5, and Python 2.3.4.  I think I followed the Mailman setup and 
>configuration guidelines correctly, but am having a problem that I cannot 
>find resolution to via google nor by a search of the Mailman list archives.
>
>When sending a message to a test list, the message sits in the queue and 

Postfix queue?


>Postfix reports in the maillog:
>
>Jun  6 09:04:55 lists postfix/qmgr[19892]: E16EA6FE2C: 
>from=<test-bounces at lists.siemensmedical.com>, size=1215, nrcpt=1 (queue 
>active)


This looks like mailman has received the post and is trying to notify
the owner/moderator (or maybe deliver the post if there is only one
recipient). Listname-bounces is the usual envelope sender for messages
from Mailman.

>Jun  6 09:04:55 lists postfix/local[19915]: warning: cannot find alias 
>database owner for hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases(0,34100)


I don't know postfix and am not sure what this means.


>The permissions on the aliases* files are:
>
>ls -l /usr/local/mailman/data/alias*
>-rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman 107000 Jun  6 08:59 aliases
>-rw-r-----  1 mailman mailman 167936 Jun  6 08:59 aliases.db


aliases.db should be group writable and I think is normally owned by
root which may relate to the above log message.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From acravens at uen.org  Mon Jun  6 19:19:24 2005
From: acravens at uen.org (Andy Cravens)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 11:19:24 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Running mailman on dedicated server
Message-ID: <42A4859C.9060101@uen.org>

I'm looking for information on pros, cons and setup steps for taking 
mailman off the mail server and setting it up on a dedicated mailman 
list server.  I looked through the entire FAQ and didn't see any info on 
this.  I've seen this information before but can't find it now. 

--
Andy


From gus at clacso.edu.ar  Mon Jun  6 19:42:13 2005
From: gus at clacso.edu.ar (gus)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 14:42:13 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] limit to space
Message-ID: <42A48AF5.2030005@clacso.edu.ar>

Hello
I have a problem.

1_ How can put limit of message to one list created in mailman?


2_One user , always send mail with attachemt...
Today after 2 months these user can 't send the attachmen, with the 
message...

Could anyone help me..
thanks
gus



From billl at inetmsg.com  Mon Jun  6 19:57:07 2005
From: billl at inetmsg.com (Bill Landry)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 10:57:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] First-time poster...
References: <PC1740200506061016490781719eb5fe@msapiro>
Message-ID: <02af01c56ac1$27d77070$43c6e2a5@blxp>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>


> >I have setup a list server running on Fedora Core 2, with Postfix 2.2.3,
> >Mailman 2.1.5, and Python 2.3.4.  I think I followed the Mailman setup 
> >and
> >configuration guidelines correctly, but am having a problem that I cannot
> >find resolution to via google nor by a search of the Mailman list 
> >archives.
> >
> >When sending a message to a test list, the message sits in the queue and
>
> Postfix queue?

Yes.

> >Postfix reports in the maillog:
> >
> >Jun  6 09:04:55 lists postfix/qmgr[19892]: E16EA6FE2C:
> >from=<test-bounces at lists.siemensmedical.com>, size=1215, nrcpt=1 (queue
> >active)
>
> This looks like mailman has received the post and is trying to notify
> the owner/moderator (or maybe deliver the post if there is only one
> recipient). Listname-bounces is the usual envelope sender for messages
> from Mailman.
>
> >Jun  6 09:04:55 lists postfix/local[19915]: warning: cannot find alias
> >database owner for hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases(0,34100)
>
> I don't know postfix and am not sure what this means.
>
> >The permissions on the aliases* files are:
> >
> >ls -l /usr/local/mailman/data/alias*
> >-rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman 107000 Jun  6 08:59 aliases
> >-rw-r-----  1 mailman mailman 167936 Jun  6 08:59 aliases.db
>
> aliases.db should be group writable and I think is normally owned by
> root which may relate to the above log message.

I change the aliases.db to be group writeable, and even tried setting the 
ownership to root:mailman, but "bin/check_perms" did not like that and set 
the permission back to mailman:mailman.  The aliase* files now look like 
(with no bin/check_perms issues reported):

-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman 107000 Jun  6 08:59 aliases
-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman 167936 Jun  6 08:59 aliases.db

but I am still seeing the same problem reported in the maillog:

Jun  6 10:52:07 lists postfix/local[20108]: warning: cannot find alias 
database owner for hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases(0,34100)

Any other thoughts, ideas, suggestions...?

Thanks,

Bill 



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  6 20:02:33 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:02:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] limit to space
In-Reply-To: <42A48AF5.2030005@clacso.edu.ar>
Message-ID: <PC174020050606110233057802b1e163@msapiro>

gus wrote:
>
>1_ How can put limit of message to one list created in mailman?

You can limit the size of a single post with max_message_size.

If you are asking about a limit to the total number of posts to a list
or the number of posts by a single user or any other "number of posts"
kind of limit, I don't think you can do it without significantly
hacking the code.

>2_One user , always send mail with attachemt...
>Today after 2 months these user can 't send the attachmen, with the 
>message...

Did filter_content suddenly get turned on?

What happens? Is the post rejected or is it processed without the
attachment. If the post is sent to the list, does it have a

X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 

header?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From stolarz at gmail.com  Mon Jun  6 20:17:31 2005
From: stolarz at gmail.com (Andrew stolarz)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:17:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Search Mailman Archives
Message-ID: <2d105ddc05060611174a03891a@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Everyone,
 I just loaded the mailman software on my server and everything works great!
 one thing, the archives that get loaded on the website, is there a nice 
search feature "plug-in" that can be used to spice things up?
 I dont want to use any 3rd party hosting services and have messages stored 
elseware.
 thanks
 Andrew


From trevor.cullingsworth at pleasant.net  Mon Jun  6 20:44:13 2005
From: trevor.cullingsworth at pleasant.net (Trevor Cullingsworth)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 11:44:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Listing subscribers without admin password?
Message-ID: <42A4997D.9050807@pleasant.net>

Hi,

I was wondering if there was a way through the web browser interface to 
list subscribers of a mailing list without inputting the admin password. 

We have users who at times need to see who is on a list.  However, I do 
not want to give them the admin password because they could go in and 
change settings, add/remove users, etc.  I can run the list_members 
command from the command line but rather than write a PHP script to 
utilize this command I was wondering if there was a nother way already 
in place.

Thank you.

Trevor Cullingsworth


From dhwang at m-powered.com  Mon Jun  6 20:46:28 2005
From: dhwang at m-powered.com (David Hwang)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:46:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailmain Error
References: <PC17402005060508145708281cbb9495@msapiro>
Message-ID: <006101c56ac8$0da4e140$7d7410ac@SANESTH3>

Working these bugs through their logical conclusion....

I got the home directory problem fixed, but now I'm getting these errors. 
Any hints?

Job /usr/bin/python -S /usr/lib/mailman/cron/disabled terminated (exit 
status: 1) (mailing output)

Job /usr/bin/python -S /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests terminated (exit 
status: 1) (mailing output)

Thanks,
David


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
To: <dhwang at m-powered.com>
Cc: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailmain Error



>
> Check the home directory for the mailman user in the /etc/passwd file.
> I think the error must be something like that. The Defaults.py
> variables are PREFIX, EXEC_PREFIX and VAR_PREFIX, but they are set by
> configure and have to be OK if lists are generally working.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> 




From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  6 20:46:20 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:46:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] First-time poster...
In-Reply-To: <02af01c56ac1$27d77070$43c6e2a5@blxp>
Message-ID: <PC17402005060611462008120d7594a0@msapiro>

Bill Landry wrote:
>
>I change the aliases.db to be group writeable, and even tried setting the 
>ownership to root:mailman, but "bin/check_perms" did not like that and set 
>the permission back to mailman:mailman.  The aliase* files now look like 
>(with no bin/check_perms issues reported):
>
>-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman 107000 Jun  6 08:59 aliases
>-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman 167936 Jun  6 08:59 aliases.db
>
>but I am still seeing the same problem reported in the maillog:
>
>Jun  6 10:52:07 lists postfix/local[20108]: warning: cannot find alias 
>database owner for hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases(0,34100)



What happens if you leave the ownership as root:mailman in spite of
check_perms?

Have you followed the Postfix setup instructions at for example
http://mailman.sourceforge.net/mailman-install/node12.html (mirrors at
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node12.html and
http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html

In any case, this appears to be a postfix configuration issue. A google
search for "cannot find alias database owner" turns up two links to a
postfix module alias.c, the relevant piece of which is:

    /*
     * DELIVERY RIGHTS
     * 
     * What rights to use for |command and /file/name deliveries? The
     * command and file code will use default rights when the alias
     * database is owned by root, otherwise it will use the rights of
     * the alias database owner.
     */
    if ((alias_uid = dict_owner(*cpp)) == 0) {
	alias_pwd = 0;
	RESET_USER_ATTR(usr_attr, state.level);
    } else {
	if ((alias_pwd = mypwuid(alias_uid)) == 0) {
	    msg_warn("cannot find alias database owner for %s", *cpp);
	    *statusp = defer_append(BOUNCE_FLAG_KEEP,
				    BOUNCE_ATTR(state.msg_attr),
				"cannot find alias database owner");
	    return (YES);
	}
	SET_USER_ATTR(usr_attr, alias_pwd, state.level);
    }





--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  6 20:49:38 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:49:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Search Mailman Archives
In-Reply-To: <2d105ddc05060611174a03891a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506061149380562c3414218@msapiro>

Andrew stolarz wrote:

> I just loaded the mailman software on my server and everything works great!
> one thing, the archives that get loaded on the website, is there a nice 
>search feature "plug-in" that can be used to spice things up?


See FAQ article 1.11
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  6 20:52:41 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:52:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Listing subscribers without admin password?
In-Reply-To: <42A4997D.9050807@pleasant.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506061152410562d785c49b@msapiro>

Trevor Cullingsworth wrote:
>
>I was wondering if there was a way through the web browser interface to 
>list subscribers of a mailing list without inputting the admin password. 


Go to Privacy options...->Subscription rules and set private_roster
(Who can view subscription list?) to List Members.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  6 20:55:16 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:55:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailmain Error
In-Reply-To: <006101c56ac8$0da4e140$7d7410ac@SANESTH3>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506061155160250d785c34a@msapiro>

David Hwang wrote:

>Working these bugs through their logical conclusion....
>
>I got the home directory problem fixed, but now I'm getting these errors. 
>Any hints?
>
>Job /usr/bin/python -S /usr/lib/mailman/cron/disabled terminated (exit 
>status: 1) (mailing output)
>
>Job /usr/bin/python -S /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests terminated (exit 
>status: 1) (mailing output)

Is there anything in Mailman's error log about these?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From duncan.salada at titan.com  Mon Jun  6 21:26:43 2005
From: duncan.salada at titan.com (Salada, Duncan S.)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:26:43 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught runner exception
Message-ID: <EE89EEE5DD89304988B882BD9BD7EF572DFA76@trs-land-exch1.trs.ad.local>

I have a problem with one of my lists.  I have 4 lists, and 3 seem to be working fine.  The fourth one worked fine for the first couple of weeks, but then started having problems.  No changes were made to the configuration during that time.  The problem is this: mail will not go out to any of the users.

This list was configured to have only one recipient and allow anyone to post to it (sort of a spam catcher).  I've checked everything in the most applicable FAQ (http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp).  In the error log, I keep getting "Uncaught runner exception: len() of unsized object" (the full log entry with Traceback is at the bottom of the email).

I am running Mailman 2.1.4 installed from source on Solaris 6 with sendmail.

Any help, information, suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

==== ERROR LOG =====
Jun 06 15:10:09 2005 (27089) Uncaught runner exception: len() of unsized object
Jun 06 15:10:09 2005 (27089) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 110, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 160, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 91, in process
    send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132, in send_digests
    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 306, in send_i18n_digests
    msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 262, in process
    size = len(payload)
TypeError: len() of unsized object

Jun 06 15:10:09 2005 (27089) SHUNTING: 1118084879.080544+37fc5a2467c00ef900e9933a77c481ec4aa67de3
==== END ERROR LOG =====

Duncan



From billl at inetmsg.com  Mon Jun  6 21:31:37 2005
From: billl at inetmsg.com (Bill Landry)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:31:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] First-time poster...
References: <PC17402005060611462008120d7594a0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <03de01c56ace$5b672220$43c6e2a5@blxp>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>

> What happens if you leave the ownership as root:mailman in spite of
> check_perms?

Then I get the following in the maillog:

Jun  6 12:22:45 lists postfix/local[20474]: 711426FE2C: 
to=<curtistest at lists.siemensmedical.com>, relay=local, delay=1, 
status=bounced (Command died with status 1: "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman 
post curtistest")

and I get back an undeliverable message.

> Have you followed the Postfix setup instructions at for example
> http://mailman.sourceforge.net/mailman-install/node12.html (mirrors at
> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node12.html and
> http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html

Yes.

> In any case, this appears to be a postfix configuration issue. A google
> search for "cannot find alias database owner" turns up two links to a
> postfix module alias.c, the relevant piece of which is:
>
>     /*
>      * DELIVERY RIGHTS

Not sure what to do with this code snippet.  If you have any further advice 
based on the "Command died with status 1" I receive when setting the 
aliases.db perms to root:mailman, please let me know.  Otherwise, I will 
post this to the Postfix list to see what they have to say.

Thanks for your comments and suggestions!

Bill 



From jdennis at redhat.com  Mon Jun  6 21:46:56 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 15:46:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] First-time poster...
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005060611462008120d7594a0@msapiro>
References: <PC17402005060611462008120d7594a0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1118087216.18036.30.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Mon, 2005-06-06 at 11:46 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Bill Landry wrote:
> >
> >Jun  6 10:52:07 lists postfix/local[20108]: warning: cannot find alias 
> >database owner for hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases(0,34100)

> In any case, this appears to be a postfix configuration issue. A google
> search for "cannot find alias database owner" turns up two links to a
> postfix module alias.c, the relevant piece of which is:

I don't think this is a postfix configuration issue, but rather a
problem with user lookup's. What the code in question is doing is
getting the user id (uid) of the owner of of the alias file and then
mapping it to an account. For some reason that's failing. On the machine
that postfix is running on you should verify the mailman account exists.
(what does the command "id mailman" return?). Are you running postfix
and mailman on the same machine. Do you have any of the files on an NFS
mount? It seems very odd that ls -l prints out mailman as the owner but
postfix can't perform the same lookup. Are you running a NSCD (Name
Service Cache Daemon)? If so, maybe the cache isn't refreshed. Have you
tried restarting postfix? Is mailman in /etc/shadow on the machine
postfix is running on?
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  6 21:48:26 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:48:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] First-time poster...
In-Reply-To: <03de01c56ace$5b672220$43c6e2a5@blxp>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506061248260390225880a0@msapiro>

Bill Landry wrote:

>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
>
>> What happens if you leave the ownership as root:mailman in spite of
>> check_perms?
>
>Then I get the following in the maillog:
>
>Jun  6 12:22:45 lists postfix/local[20474]: 711426FE2C: 
>to=<curtistest at lists.siemensmedical.com>, relay=local, delay=1, 
>status=bounced (Command died with status 1: "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman 
>post curtistest")
>
>and I get back an undeliverable message.

And did that say anything about a group mismatch error? Or is there
anything in Mailman's 'error' log?

If you're getting group mismatch errors, see FAQ article 6.16

Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py



>> Have you followed the Postfix setup instructions at for example
>> http://mailman.sourceforge.net/mailman-install/node12.html (mirrors at
>> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node12.html and
>> http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node12.html
>
>Yes.
>
>> In any case, this appears to be a postfix configuration issue. A google
>> search for "cannot find alias database owner" turns up two links to a
>> postfix module alias.c, the relevant piece of which is:
>>
>>     /*
>>      * DELIVERY RIGHTS
>
>Not sure what to do with this code snippet.


Nor I. I only mentioned it because the comment seems to indicate that
if the aliases.db (and aliases) is owned by mailman, postfix has to be
told something about what "rights" to give mailman.


>If you have any further advice 
>based on the "Command died with status 1" I receive when setting the 
>aliases.db perms to root:mailman, please let me know.  Otherwise, I will 
>post this to the Postfix list to see what they have to say.


As above, I think setting the owner of the aliases to root allowed
postfix to pipe the message to the mailman wrapper which then died.
What usually causes this is the "group mismatch error".

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From billl at inetmsg.com  Mon Jun  6 22:00:35 2005
From: billl at inetmsg.com (Bill Landry)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:00:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] First-time poster...
References: <PC17402005060611462008120d7594a0@msapiro>
	<1118087216.18036.30.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <048101c56ad2$677e1600$43c6e2a5@blxp>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Dennis" <jdennis at redhat.com>

> On Mon, 2005-06-06 at 11:46 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Bill Landry wrote:
>> >
>> >Jun  6 10:52:07 lists postfix/local[20108]: warning: cannot find alias 
>> >database owner for hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases(0,34100)
> 
>> In any case, this appears to be a postfix configuration issue. A google
>> search for "cannot find alias database owner" turns up two links to a
>> postfix module alias.c, the relevant piece of which is:
> 
> I don't think this is a postfix configuration issue, but rather a
> problem with user lookup's. What the code in question is doing is
> getting the user id (uid) of the owner of of the alias file and then
> mapping it to an account. For some reason that's failing. On the machine
> that postfix is running on you should verify the mailman account exists.
> (what does the command "id mailman" return?).

id mailman
uid=41(mailman) gid=41(mailman) groups=41(mailman)

> Are you running postfix
> and mailman on the same machine.

Yes.

> Do you have any of the files on an NFS mount?

No.

 > It seems very odd that ls -l prints out mailman as the owner but
> postfix can't perform the same lookup. Are you running a NSCD (Name
> Service Cache Daemon)?

No.

> If so, maybe the cache isn't refreshed. Have you
> tried restarting postfix?

Yes, many times.

> Is mailman in /etc/shadow on the machine
> postfix is running on?

grep mailman /etc/shadow
mailman:!!:12327::::::

Bill


From jdennis at redhat.com  Mon Jun  6 22:01:51 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 16:01:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] First-time poster...
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200506061248260390225880a0@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200506061248260390225880a0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1118088111.18036.40.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Mon, 2005-06-06 at 12:48 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> And did that say anything about a group mismatch error? Or is there
> anything in Mailman's 'error' log?
> 
> If you're getting group mismatch errors, see FAQ article 6.16

FWIW, I don't think this problem will manifest itself as a mailman group
mismatch error, but I could be wrong.

Thinking about this a bit more I suspect Bill may have modified the
user/group on the alias file and/or modified the mailman account
information while postfix was running, but did not restart postfix. I
haven't looked at the postfix code but I wouldn't be surprised if
postfix when it starts gets file information on all its input files
referenced in main.cf and stores that information. If that information
was altered while postfix was running it would likely get confused
because it may be using id's that no longer exist.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun  6 22:20:53 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:20:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught runner exception
In-Reply-To: <EE89EEE5DD89304988B882BD9BD7EF572DFA76@trs-land-exch1.trs.ad.local>
Message-ID: <PC174020050606132053085957a9e690@msapiro>

Salada, Duncan S.wrote:

>I have a problem with one of my lists.  I have 4 lists, and 3 seem to be working fine.  The fourth one worked fine for the first couple of weeks, but then started having problems.  No changes were made to the configuration during that time.  The problem is this: mail will not go out to any of the users.
>
>This list was configured to have only one recipient and allow anyone to post to it (sort of a spam catcher).  I've checked everything in the most applicable FAQ (http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp).  In the error log, I keep getting "Uncaught runner exception: len() of unsized object" (the full log entry with Traceback is at the bottom of the email).
>
>I am running Mailman 2.1.4 installed from source on Solaris 6 with sendmail.
>
>Any help, information, suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>
>==== ERROR LOG =====
>Jun 06 15:10:09 2005 (27089) Uncaught runner exception: len() of unsized object
>Jun 06 15:10:09 2005 (27089) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 110, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 160, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in _dispose
>    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in _dopipeline
>    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 91, in process
>    send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132, in send_digests
>    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 306, in send_i18n_digests
>    msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
>  File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 262, in process
>    size = len(payload)
>TypeError: len() of unsized object
>
>Jun 06 15:10:09 2005 (27089) SHUNTING: 1118084879.080544+37fc5a2467c00ef900e9933a77c481ec4aa67de3
>==== END ERROR LOG =====


The error is because of a badly formed mime multipart message. The
Mailman 2.1.6 version of Scrubber.py contains the following insert
before the '    size = len(payload)'.


      # XXX Under email 2.5, it is possible that payload will be None.
      # This can happen when you have a Content-Type: multipart/* with
      # only one part and that part has two blank lines between the
      # first boundary and the end boundary.  In email 3.0 you end up
      # with a string in the payload.  I think in this case it's safe to
      # ignore the part.
      if payload is None:
          continue
      size = len(payload)

The reference to email 2.5 is the Python library email module.

These errors put the message in the shunt queue (qfiles/shunt/).
Presumably the message or some residue of it is still elsewhere,
probably in lists/<listname>/digest.mbox, causing this error to occur
for each new message.

You could install the above code in Scrubber.py. If so, be careful -
the above isn't indented the right amount and indentation counts.

Otherwise, you could try to identify the bad message in the shunt queue
and delete it and also edit digests.mbox to remove it from there too.
Then you can probably run bin/unshunt and be OK, or if you just want
to get things started again without worrying about lost messages, you
can just remove the digests.mbox and delete the messages from the
shunt queue.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From billl at inetmsg.com  Tue Jun  7 00:07:42 2005
From: billl at inetmsg.com (Bill Landry)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:07:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] First-time poster...
References: <PC1740200506061248260390225880a0@msapiro>
	<1118088111.18036.40.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <064101c56ae4$299426b0$43c6e2a5@blxp>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Dennis" <jdennis at redhat.com>

> On Mon, 2005-06-06 at 12:48 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> And did that say anything about a group mismatch error? Or is there
>> anything in Mailman's 'error' log?
>>
>> If you're getting group mismatch errors, see FAQ article 6.16
>
> FWIW, I don't think this problem will manifest itself as a mailman group
> mismatch error, but I could be wrong.
>
> Thinking about this a bit more I suspect Bill may have modified the
> user/group on the alias file and/or modified the mailman account
> information while postfix was running, but did not restart postfix. I
> haven't looked at the postfix code but I wouldn't be surprised if
> postfix when it starts gets file information on all its input files
> referenced in main.cf and stores that information. If that information
> was altered while postfix was running it would likely get confused
> because it may be using id's that no longer exist.

John, I've tried to make sure that I either reload or restart Postfix and 
Mailman after each config or file permissions change.  Thanks for the help 
guys, it is very much appreciated.  I've posted the issue to the Postfix 
list, so if I can find a resolution there, I will post it back here.  If you 
can think of anything else I should look at, please let me know.

Thanks again!

Bill 



From jdennis at redhat.com  Tue Jun  7 00:15:27 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 18:15:27 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] First-time poster...
In-Reply-To: <048101c56ad2$677e1600$43c6e2a5@blxp>
References: <PC17402005060611462008120d7594a0@msapiro>
	<1118087216.18036.30.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
	<048101c56ad2$677e1600$43c6e2a5@blxp>
Message-ID: <1118096127.18648.39.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Mon, 2005-06-06 at 13:00 -0700, Bill Landry wrote:

O.K. the other things I suggested you check all seem fine.

> > Is mailman in /etc/shadow on the machine
> > postfix is running on?
> 
> grep mailman /etc/shadow
> mailman:!!:12327::::::

Actually /etc/passwd maybe more relevant in this instance. If postfix
does not have permission to read /etc/passwd it's look up is going to
fail (a non-readable /etc/group may also provoke this). Recall that
postfix typically does not run as root for very good reasons. What
postfix runs as is configurable. You want to make sure whatever user
postfix is running as has permission to read these /etc files. Also
typically /etc/passwd and /etc/group are readable by everybody. The only
other thing I can think of for you to check is to assure /etc/passwd
and /etc/group are readable by the postfix process.

Short of that the only other things I can think of would be to strace
(assuming you're on a system with strace, e.g. Linux) the postfix
process and seeing where the failure occurs and/or to look at the
postfix code that performs the lookup and see exactly what c lib
functions it's calling and what triggers it to return a failure.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From billl at inetmsg.com  Tue Jun  7 01:10:32 2005
From: billl at inetmsg.com (Bill Landry)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:10:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] First-time poster...
References: <PC17402005060611462008120d7594a0@msapiro>
	<1118087216.18036.30.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
	<048101c56ad2$677e1600$43c6e2a5@blxp>
	<1118096127.18648.39.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <083101c56aec$f701e5d0$43c6e2a5@blxp>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Dennis" <jdennis at redhat.com>

> On Mon, 2005-06-06 at 13:00 -0700, Bill Landry wrote:
>
> O.K. the other things I suggested you check all seem fine.
>
>> > Is mailman in /etc/shadow on the machine
>> > postfix is running on?
>>
>> grep mailman /etc/shadow
>> mailman:!!:12327::::::
>
> Actually /etc/passwd maybe more relevant in this instance. If postfix
> does not have permission to read /etc/passwd it's look up is going to
> fail (a non-readable /etc/group may also provoke this). Recall that
> postfix typically does not run as root for very good reasons. What
> postfix runs as is configurable. You want to make sure whatever user
> postfix is running as has permission to read these /etc files. Also
> typically /etc/passwd and /etc/group are readable by everybody. The only
> other thing I can think of for you to check is to assure /etc/passwd
> and /etc/group are readable by the postfix process.
>
> Short of that the only other things I can think of would be to strace
> (assuming you're on a system with strace, e.g. Linux) the postfix
> process and seeing where the failure occurs and/or to look at the
> postfix code that performs the lookup and see exactly what c lib
> functions it's calling and what triggers it to return a failure.

This appears to be the standard across all of my RedHat 9/Postfix and Fedora 
Core3/Postfix servers:

ls -l /etc/passwd
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 2172 Jun  6 09:16 /etc/passwd
ls -l /etc/group
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 974 Jun  6 13:34 /etc/group

My other Postfix servers are function properly, and they all run as 
"mail_owner = postfix", including this particular Mailman server, so I am 
still a bit baffled by this one.

Bill 



From david at midrange.com  Tue Jun  7 02:07:02 2005
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 19:07:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customizing Rejection notice with 2.1.6?
Message-ID: <d82o88$f1t$1@sea.gmane.org>

I just upgraded to 2.1.6 and tried to customize the non-member rejection
notice by editing the 'nonmember_rejection_notice' value.

However, when a non-member posts and I reject it, the old "Non-members
are not allowed to post messages to this list." message is being sent.

Is there something I missed?

Thanks!

david



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun  7 02:57:56 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 17:57:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customizing Rejection notice with 2.1.6?
In-Reply-To: <d82o88$f1t$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506061757560140c3414084@msapiro>

David Gibbs wrote:

>I just upgraded to 2.1.6 and tried to customize the non-member rejection
>notice by editing the 'nonmember_rejection_notice' value.
>
>However, when a non-member posts and I reject it, the old "Non-members
>are not allowed to post messages to this list." message is being sent.

The message only applies to posts automatically rejected for
reject_these_nonmembers match and generic_nonmember_action reject.

Posts rejected through the admindb interface still get the reject
message primed with the generic 'Non-members are not allowed to post
messages to this list.' message. You can change this through the
admindb interface when you reject the message, but it requires you to
type or paste the reject message each time.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From david at midrange.com  Tue Jun  7 03:38:17 2005
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 20:38:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customizing Rejection notice with 2.1.6?
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200506061757560140c3414084@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200506061757560140c3414084@msapiro>
Message-ID: <42A4FA89.8060706@midrange.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> The message only applies to posts automatically rejected for
> reject_these_nonmembers match and generic_nonmember_action reject.

Darn it ... I misunderstood that.

Back to 2.1.5 I guess.

david


From jwt at onjapan.net  Tue Jun  7 09:13:13 2005
From: jwt at onjapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:13:13 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailmain Error
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200506061155160250d785c34a@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200506061155160250d785c34a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <289C904D-1E6C-4723-ACBB-DC129E2A1756@onjapan.net>

On Jun 7, 2005, at 03:55, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>> Job /usr/bin/python -S /usr/lib/mailman/cron/disabled terminated  
>> (exit
>> status: 1) (mailing output)
>>
>> Job /usr/bin/python -S /usr/lib/mailman/cron/senddigests  
>> terminated (exit
>> status: 1) (mailing output)
>>
>
> Is there anything in Mailman's error log about these?

And what was in the output that was mailed to the mailman user (the  
owner of the crontab, or the person you direct cron output to with  
the MAILTO directive)?

(I suspect you still have permissions problems.)


-- 
Jim Tittsler     http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship  http://Starship.Python.net/crew/jwt/
Mailman IRC      irc://irc.freenode.net/#mailman




From jwt at onjapan.net  Tue Jun  7 09:40:45 2005
From: jwt at onjapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:40:45 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customizing Rejection notice with 2.1.6?
In-Reply-To: <42A4FA89.8060706@midrange.com>
References: <PC1740200506061757560140c3414084@msapiro>
	<42A4FA89.8060706@midrange.com>
Message-ID: <2EB20939-8387-40FC-A3B3-8941AC63B97C@onjapan.net>

On Jun 7, 2005, at 10:38, David Gibbs wrote:

> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> The message only applies to posts automatically rejected for
>> reject_these_nonmembers match and generic_nonmember_action reject.
>>
>
> Darn it ... I misunderstood that.

You could customize the default message in Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py  
(and, if you want it to remain translatable, any of the language .po  
files you need) (for Mailman 2.1.5 or 2.1.6).

A Javascript bookmarklet used on the web moderation page might be  
another possibility.

-- 
Jim Tittsler     http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship  http://Starship.Python.net/crew/jwt/
Mailman IRC      irc://irc.freenode.net/#mailman




From billl at inetmsg.com  Tue Jun  7 11:42:25 2005
From: billl at inetmsg.com (Bill Landry)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 02:42:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] First-time poster...
References: <PC17402005060611462008120d7594a0@msapiro>
	<1118087216.18036.30.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
	<048101c56ad2$677e1600$43c6e2a5@blxp>
	<1118096127.18648.39.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <09a201c56b45$363a8f10$43c6e2a5@blxp>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Dennis" <jdennis at redhat.com>

> Short of that the only other things I can think of would be to strace
> (assuming you're on a system with strace, e.g. Linux) the postfix
> process and seeing where the failure occurs and/or to look at the
> postfix code that performs the lookup and see exactly what c lib
> functions it's calling and what triggers it to return a failure.

Doh, ended up being a chroot issue in master.cf.  Thanks John, Mark, and Dan 
for the responses, and my apologies to the list for the noise...

Bill 



From greg at anastasia.ru  Tue Jun  7 14:26:55 2005
From: greg at anastasia.ru (Grigory Fateyev)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:26:55 +0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + postfix with mysql
In-Reply-To: <20050606183915.0415bcea@home.greg.com.ru>
References: <20050606183915.0415bcea@home.greg.com.ru>
Message-ID: <20050607162655.6aee37c3@home.greg.com.ru>

Hello Grigory Fateyev!
On Mon, 6 Jun 2005 18:39:15 +0400 you wrote:

> Hello!
> 
> I have good working mailsystem: postfix with mysql. Now I need mailman
> install.
> 
> #### main.cf
> alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
> virtual_alias_maps = hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman,      
> 
> mysql:/etc/postfix/mysql_virtual_alias_maps.cf
> 
> -rw-r-----  1 root list 12288 Jun  6 17:18
> /var/lib/mailman/data/aliases.db
> 
> -rw-r--r--  1 list list 12288 Jun  6 17:18
> /var/lib/mailman/data/virtual-mailman.db
> 
> #### aliases and virtual-mailman
> # STANZA START: selsovet
> # CREATED: Mon Jun  6 17:18:48 2005
> selsovet:             "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post selsovet"
> selsovet-admin:       "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin selsovet"
> selsovet-bounces:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces
> selsovet" selsovet-confirm:     "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman
> confirm selsovet" selsovet-join:       
> "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join selsovet" selsovet-leave:      
> "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave selsovet" selsovet-owner:      
> "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner selsovet" selsovet-request:    
> "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request selsovet" selsovet-subscribe: 
>  "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe
> selsovet" selsovet-unsubscribe: "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman
> unsubscribe selsovet" # STANZA END: selsovet
> 
> but at that time I have:
> Jun  6 17:25:46 megre postfix/smtpd[14520]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from
> unknown[62.33.35.93]: 550 <selsovet at anastasia.ru>: Recipient address
> rejected: User unknown in virtual mailbox table;
> from=<greg at anastasia.ru> to=<selsovet at anastasia.ru> proto=ESMTP
> helo=<mydomain.ru>
> 
> Why can not correct install mailman?
> 
Smb can help me?

-- 
????? ??????????!
greg_[at]_anastasia_[dot]_ru ????????.
http://counter.li.org/ registered Linux user #389407


From jdennis at redhat.com  Tue Jun  7 16:47:54 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 10:47:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] chroot jails (Was: First-time poster...)
In-Reply-To: <09a201c56b45$363a8f10$43c6e2a5@blxp>
References: <PC17402005060611462008120d7594a0@msapiro>
	<1118087216.18036.30.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
	<048101c56ad2$677e1600$43c6e2a5@blxp>
	<1118096127.18648.39.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
	<09a201c56b45$363a8f10$43c6e2a5@blxp>
Message-ID: <1118155675.2716.47.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Tue, 2005-06-07 at 02:42 -0700, Bill Landry wrote:

> Doh, ended up being a chroot issue in master.cf.  Thanks John, Mark, and Dan 
> for the responses, and my apologies to the list for the noise...

Glad you got it fixed.

I'd like to take this opportunity to make a few comments about chroot
jails, this is not directed at you or your choice to use them but rather
as a general comment of interest to the wider community.

For what its worth I see this as a prime example of why I no longer
recommend people run postfix (and other services) in a chroot jail. We
stopped shipping postfix chrooted several years ago after observing the
inordinate amount of problems it created for a marginal security win.
Postfix is now often configured to interact with a host of other
software components (SASL, TLS, SQL databases, LDAP directories, mailing
list managers, spam filters, challenage/response authentcation methods,
etc.) and as such its tenticles reach deep and wide. Trying to keep all
these diverese elements in sync in a jail is a headache and a source of
numerous problems often ascribed as bugs but which aren't. Even Wietse
Venema the author of postfix no longer recommends the use of chroot
jails although this was a design center of the original postfix security
model. Chroot jails can be broken out of. Even without chroot jails
postfix maintains a fairly robust security profile because of its
design.

Finally, with the advent of SELinux (yes, postfix, mailman, and apache
are under the control of SELinux on Red Hat systems) the value of a jail
is greatly diminished in favor of the vastly more robust security model
inherent in SELinux. In fact it might be a reasonable statement that
SELinux is itself a system wide jail enforced at the kernel level for
every process and every object (e.g. files, sockets, devices, etc.). It
is a Mandatory Access Control (MAC) sytem which means it cannot be
defeated and offers great granularity (and unforuntely its own set of
new headaces as the wrinkles in the security policy are ironed out ;-)

-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From chris at schoeppi.net  Tue Jun  7 20:00:15 2005
From: chris at schoeppi.net (Christian Schoepplein)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:00:15 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + groupware software
Message-ID: <20050607180015.GA5496@athlon.schoeppi.net>

Hello,

I wonder if there is a groupware software available, that has mailman 
integrated somehow.

-- 
Gruss / Regards,
Christian Schoepplein <chris at schoeppi.net>

Linux for the blind: http://www.blinux.suse.de
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From billl at inetmsg.com  Tue Jun  7 22:02:10 2005
From: billl at inetmsg.com (Bill Landry)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 13:02:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permitted IP Address?
Message-ID: <0cac01c56b9b$ca16c540$43c6e2a5@blxp>

We have a script that will send out automated service notification messages 
to different lists.  Is there a way to configure Mailman to allow posts to 
any lists from a specific IP address, that of the script server?

Bill 



From haack at nclack.k12.or.us  Tue Jun  7 22:24:16 2005
From: haack at nclack.k12.or.us (Robert Haack)
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 13:24:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages not delivered *RESOLVED*
In-Reply-To: <42A08D47.7090707@nclack.k12.or.us>
References: <PC174020050603093226037544133851@msapiro>
	<42A08D47.7090707@nclack.k12.or.us>
Message-ID: <42A60270.50801@nclack.k12.or.us>

I just thought that I would report on what I've found.

I setup another copy of Mailman on a different server and created all of 
the exact same test lists I had on my live server.  However on this 
server I did not install Jim Tittsler's patch to allow another list to 
post to a list.  I just copied the users who could post to the list into 
the "Addresses that should be accepted".  I created a quick and dirty 
program to send emails to all of the lists as different user names.  
After running 30 tests I had no problems with any messages getting 
lost.  So today I changed all of my test lists on my live server so that 
they no longer use a list name to verify who can post to the list.  I 
just took their names and pasted them in.  I ran another 30 tests and 
again had no problem.  So to me it seems to be this patch that caused my 
problems and the patch works great if a user only posts to a single 
list, but if they post to multiple lists then that's when the problem 
arose for me.

So now I have another question.  Is there some way that I can 
automatically add a name to the "List of non-member addresses whose 
postings should be automatically accepted?"  For us this list changes on 
a regular basis and I'd hate to have to go through our 20+ lists and 
update them all manually?

TIA

Robert Haack
Programmer Analyst
North Clackamas School District #12
haack at nclack.k12.or.us



Robert Haack wrote:

>>Robert Haack wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>>>I've been doing some testing and here is what I've found in addition to
>>>
>>>what's below:
>>>
>>>I sent a message to 6 lists titled test, testtwo, test3, test_4, test_5, 
>>>and test_6.  On a consistent basis it appears that only 4 of these lists 
>>>get the message.  If I look at my postfix log I see that the message was 
>>>processed successfully yet when I look in the mailman/qfiles/in 
>>>directory I only see the message come through to 4 of the 6 lists (I 
>>>know this partly because the message get stuck in the que).  It's not 
>>>the same 4 lists each time that the message comes through to either and 
>>>there are no messages in any of the other directories under qfiles/.  I 
>>>see nothing in the Mailman log files that indicates any error.  It's 
>>>almost like postfix hands the message off to Mailman and then things go 
>>>haywire.
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>Does the postfix log show that the message was piped to the wrapper for
>>all 6 lists (i.e. six deliveries)?
>>
>>    
>>
>Mark,
>
>I believe it does.  I've included the partial log for each of the 6 
>lists I mentioned.  I didn't know if it would help any but I figured it 
>was worth a shot.   The interesting thing I noticed was that testtwo, 
>test3, and test_6 all show 2 bounces in the log file as well yet for 
>both tests I ran today I actually got both messages from these 3 lists.  
>I got one message for the list test_5 and it had one bounce.  I got 0 
>bounces for list test and test_4.  I got one message to the test list 
>and got none for list test_4. 
>
>Jun  3 08:27:52 nclack postfix/local[23906]: 35B0C46A02: 
>to=<test at nclack.k12.or.
>us>, relay=local, delay=0, status=sent ("|/var/mailman/mail/mailman post 
>test")
>Jun  3 08:52:28 nclack postfix/local[27457]: DE71346A09: 
>to=<test at nclack.k12.or.
>us>, relay=local, delay=1, status=sent ("|/var/mailman/mail/mailman post 
>test")
>
>Jun  3 08:27:52 nclack postfix/local[23471]: 35B0C46A02: 
>to=<testtwo at nclack.k12.
>or.us>, relay=local, delay=0, status=sent ("|/var/mailman/mail/mailman 
>post test
>two")
>Jun  3 08:42:28 nclack postfix/qmgr[1959]: A297846A02: 
>from=<testtwo-bounces at ncl
>ack.k12.or.us>, size=1707, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>Jun  3 08:52:28 nclack postfix/local[27498]: DE71346A09: 
>to=<testtwo at nclack.k12.
>or.us>, relay=local, delay=1, status=sent ("|/var/mailman/mail/mailman 
>post test
>two")
>Jun  3 08:52:31 nclack postfix/qmgr[1959]: 14DCF46A09: 
>from=<testtwo-bounces at ncl
>ack.k12.or.us>, size=1691, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>
>un  3 08:27:52 nclack postfix/local[23856]: 35B0C46A02: 
>to=<test3 at nclack.k12.or
>.us>, relay=local, delay=0, status=sent ("|/var/mailman/mail/mailman 
>post test3"
>)
>Jun  3 08:27:54 nclack postfix/qmgr[1959]: 0FBA746A02: 
>from=<test3-bounces at nclac
>k.k12.or.us>, size=1735, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>Jun  3 08:52:28 nclack postfix/local[27449]: DE71346A09: 
>to=<test3 at nclack.k12.or
>.us>, relay=local, delay=1, status=sent ("|/var/mailman/mail/mailman 
>post test3"
>)
>Jun  3 08:55:00 nclack postfix/qmgr[1959]: 5DC8B46A08: 
>from=<test3-bounces at nclac
>k.k12.or.us>, size=1719, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>
>Jun  3 08:27:52 nclack postfix/local[24626]: 35B0C46A02: 
>to=<test_4 at nclack.k12.o
>r.us>, relay=local, delay=0, status=sent ("|/var/mailman/mail/mailman 
>post test_
>4")
>Jun  3 08:52:28 nclack postfix/local[27456]: DE71346A09: 
>to=<test_4 at nclack.k12.o
>r.us>, relay=local, delay=1, status=sent ("|/var/mailman/mail/mailman 
>post test_
>4")
>
>Jun  3 08:27:52 nclack postfix/local[24619]: 35B0C46A02: 
>to=<test_5 at nclack.k12.o
>r.us>, relay=local, delay=0, status=sent ("|/var/mailman/mail/mailman 
>post test_
>5")
>Jun  3 08:52:28 nclack postfix/local[27443]: DE71346A09: 
>to=<test_5 at nclack.k12.o
>r.us>, relay=local, delay=1, status=sent ("|/var/mailman/mail/mailman 
>post test_
>5")
>Jun  3 08:54:40 nclack postfix/qmgr[1959]: E864846A08: 
>from=<test_5-bounces at ncla
>ck.k12.or.us>, size=1736, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>
>Jun  3 08:27:52 nclack postfix/local[23882]: 35B0C46A02: 
>to=<test_6 at nclack.k12.o
>r.us>, relay=local, delay=0, status=sent ("|/var/mailman/mail/mailman 
>post test_
>6")
>Jun  3 08:42:28 nclack postfix/qmgr[1959]: B0B2246A07: 
>from=<test_6-bounces at ncla
>ck.k12.or.us>, size=1752, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>Jun  3 08:52:28 nclack postfix/local[27520]: DE71346A09: 
>to=<test_6 at nclack.k12.o
>r.us>, relay=local, delay=1, status=sent ("|/var/mailman/mail/mailman 
>post test_
>6")
>Jun  3 08:54:40 nclack postfix/qmgr[1959]: 8F5E7469F4: 
>from=<test_6-bounces at ncla
>ck.k12.or.us>, size=1736, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>
>Thanks
>
>Robert Haack
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/haack%40nclack.k12.or.us
>
>Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>
>
>  
>


From lists at lastonepicked.com  Tue Jun  7 23:11:26 2005
From: lists at lastonepicked.com (Hunter Hillegas)
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 14:11:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Forwarding a Moderated Message/Content Type
Message-ID: <BECB5B8E.7D416%lists@lastonepicked.com>

I want to ask something before I send out a message to a huge list.

The message is an HTML message. I setup the list and subscribed three
people, then sent the message as a test. It came through perfectly.

I have now subscribed all my users and am ready to send the message to the
list. Right now it is in the moderated queue.

>From that Web page, I used the option:
" Forward messages (individually) to:"

The message I received from this forward DID NOT look correct.

The content types of the two messages are different:

Correct HTML: Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
Incorrect (Forward): Content-Type: message/rfc822

Looking at the headers for the forwarded message, it looks like it wraps the
original content in a plain text message... If that is true, when I approve
the message it should go through with the correct Content-Type, yes?

Before I send out this massive mailing, I'd like to make sure I am doing
this correctly.

Thanks,
Hunter




From rgrempel at gmail.com  Wed Jun  8 00:35:38 2005
From: rgrempel at gmail.com (Ryan Rempel)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:35:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages silently dropped after being approved
Message-ID: <fb5ec423050607153523b9d073@mail.gmail.com>

I am having a problem with messages sometimes being silently dropped
after being approved.

I successfully get the message telling me that there is a message
waiting for approval. I then use the web interface to approve it. The
approval is noted in the "vette" log. The message is copied to the
appropriate archive. However, it does not appear in the "post" log,
nor in the "smtp" log (and, of course, the message is not sent --
nothing appears in the log of my mail server). There is nothing in the
"error" log.

If I restart mailman, and then send a message again, the process works
as expected (i.e. I can approve it and it actually goes out). As a
workaround, I tried a cron job that would stop and start mailman every
hour, but that doesn't appear to help. (I guess it only helps if I
restart mailman after the problem has occured).

I'm running Mailman 2.1.5 on FreeBSD 5.4.

I am using a modified version of the LDAP member adaptor for the lists
in question. For that reason, I am fully prepared to believe that it
is something in the LDAP member adaptor (or my modifications) that is
causing the problem. But as there is no error message in the log, I'm
a little at a loss to figure out what is going on.

If anyone has seen something like this and can offer suggestions for
tracking it down, I would be most grateful.

Perhaps my best bet would be to set up a test list (with just myself
as a member, so as not to annoy the list with test messages) and try
to reproduce the problem. I could then put some logging statements in
the Mailman code to see if I can narrow down where the problem occurs.


From jwt at OnJapan.net  Wed Jun  8 01:46:30 2005
From: jwt at OnJapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 08:46:30 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permitted IP Address?
In-Reply-To: <0cac01c56b9b$ca16c540$43c6e2a5@blxp>
References: <0cac01c56b9b$ca16c540$43c6e2a5@blxp>
Message-ID: <20050607234629.GA24996@server.onjapan.net>

On Tue, Jun 07, 2005 at 01:02:10PM -0700, Bill Landry wrote:
> We have a script that will send out automated service notification messages 
> to different lists.  Is there a way to configure Mailman to allow posts to 
> any lists from a specific IP address, that of the script server?

If you taught your script the password for each of the lists,
it could add an Approved: header to the messages it crafts.

A cleaner way would be to add a stage early in the pipeline of
handler modules that identified messages from the script (by IP
address in a received header, or a special header that would be
hard to forge) and set 'approved' and 'adminapproved' for the
message.  (See Mailman/Handlers/Approve.py and SpamDetect.py
for starting places.)


-- 
Jim Tittsler     http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship  http://Starship.Python.net/crew/jwt/
Mailman IRC      irc://irc.freenode.net/#mailman


From billl at inetmsg.com  Wed Jun  8 02:09:49 2005
From: billl at inetmsg.com (Bill Landry)
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:09:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permitted IP Address?
References: <0cac01c56b9b$ca16c540$43c6e2a5@blxp>
	<20050607234629.GA24996@server.onjapan.net>
Message-ID: <100a01c56bbe$6307a1d0$43c6e2a5@blxp>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Tittsler" <jwt at OnJapan.net>

> On Tue, Jun 07, 2005 at 01:02:10PM -0700, Bill Landry wrote:
>> We have a script that will send out automated service notification 
>> messages
>> to different lists.  Is there a way to configure Mailman to allow posts 
>> to
>> any lists from a specific IP address, that of the script server?
>
> If you taught your script the password for each of the lists,
> it could add an Approved: header to the messages it crafts.
>
> A cleaner way would be to add a stage early in the pipeline of
> handler modules that identified messages from the script (by IP
> address in a received header, or a special header that would be
> hard to forge) and set 'approved' and 'adminapproved' for the
> message.  (See Mailman/Handlers/Approve.py and SpamDetect.py
> for starting places.)

Thanks Jim, I will look into that.  For now, I simply added the sending 
scripts e-mail address to all of the lists and set the flags to "nomail" and 
"hide".

Bill 



From jwblist at olympus.net  Wed Jun  8 02:38:49 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 17:38:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Migration from Linux to MacOSX
In-Reply-To: <d81vit$1vb$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <BECB8C29.5C98%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 6/6/05 10:06 AM, "Carfield Yim" <carfield at carfield.com.hk> wrote:

> Thx for the information, however I get problem from the starting...
> where can I download the binary of mailman? I just have a mac mini which
> don't come with make and gcc. Besides, as I don't have other software
> need to compile, I would like prevent this process, do you know anywhere
> can download the binary?

The Mini's DVD "Mac OS X Install Disk 1" includes at the top level a folder
Xcode Tools"  make, gcc etc are in there, but you'll need to run the
installer inside the folder and install most of XCode (I think there may be
a few things you can leave out...I don't, so I'm not sure).

  --John




From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  8 18:52:10 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 09:52:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listinclusion patch (was: Messages not
	delivered *RESOLVED*)
In-Reply-To: <42A60270.50801@nclack.k12.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506080952100937be749cd3@msapiro>

Robert Haack wrote:
>
>I setup another copy of Mailman on a different server and created all of 
>the exact same test lists I had on my live server.  However on this 
>server I did not install Jim Tittsler's patch to allow another list to 
>post to a list.  I just copied the users who could post to the list into 
>the "Addresses that should be accepted".  I created a quick and dirty 
>program to send emails to all of the lists as different user names.  
>After running 30 tests I had no problems with any messages getting 
>lost.  So today I changed all of my test lists on my live server so that 
>they no longer use a list name to verify who can post to the list.  I 
>just took their names and pasted them in.  I ran another 30 tests and 
>again had no problem.  So to me it seems to be this patch that caused my 
>problems and the patch works great if a user only posts to a single 
>list, but if they post to multiple lists then that's when the problem 
>arose for me.

I think I see the problem with the listinclusion patch. It locks the
@list list and doesn't unlock it. I don't see a need to lock the list,
so I suggest changing the following piece of the patch

+        elif are.startswith('@'):
+	    try:
+	        mother = MailList(are[1:])
+	        if mother.members.has_key(sender):
+	            return 1
+            except Errors.MMUnknownListError:
+                syslog('error', 'filter references non-existent list
%s',
+                        are[1:])

to

+        elif are.startswith('@'):
+	    try:
+	        mother = MailList(are[1:], lock=0)
+	        if mother.members.has_key(sender):
+	            return 1
+            except Errors.MMUnknownListError:
+                syslog('error', 'filter references non-existent list
%s',
+                        are[1:])



>So now I have another question.  Is there some way that I can 
>automatically add a name to the "List of non-member addresses whose 
>postings should be automatically accepted?"  For us this list changes on 
>a regular basis and I'd hate to have to go through our 20+ lists and 
>update them all manually?

You could create a shell script that would use bin/list_members to
build a file of addresses for the accept_these_nonmembers list, even
sorting and dropping dups from it, then use awk or sed or ? to turn it
into input for bin/config_list and run config_list.

You might want to make the above change to the patch and try it on your
test system first.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  8 20:00:16 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 11:00:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages silently dropped after being approved
In-Reply-To: <fb5ec423050607153523b9d073@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506081100160062e448158e@msapiro>

Ryan Rempel wrote:

>I am having a problem with messages sometimes being silently dropped
>after being approved.

I don't know if this is happening in your case, but one way this can
happen is if content filtering discards the message after it is
approved. Content filtering is not normally applied until after
moderation and other holds are checked, so an approved post can still
have all its content removed by content filtering and then be handled
according to filter_action.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  8 20:17:10 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 11:17:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Forwarding a Moderated Message/Content Type
In-Reply-To: <BECB5B8E.7D416%lists@lastonepicked.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005060811171004843665b00e@msapiro>

Hunter Hillegas wrote:

>I want to ask something before I send out a message to a huge list.
>
>The message is an HTML message. I setup the list and subscribed three
>people, then sent the message as a test. It came through perfectly.
>
>I have now subscribed all my users and am ready to send the message to the
>list. Right now it is in the moderated queue.
>
>>From that Web page, I used the option:
>" Forward messages (individually) to:"
>
>The message I received from this forward DID NOT look correct.
>
>The content types of the two messages are different:
>
>Correct HTML: Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>Incorrect (Forward): Content-Type: message/rfc822


When you forward a message from the admindb interface, it is "forwarded
as an attachment". Thus the entire message, including all its headers,
mime structure, etc., becomes the message/rfc822 contents of the
delivered "forwarded" message.

If you look at the contents of the message/rfc822 part, it should be
your original message with Content-Type" multipart/alternative and all
the original subparts, and it is this message that will be delivered
to the list upon approval.


>Looking at the headers for the forwarded message, it looks like it wraps the
>original content in a plain text message...

Actually, a message/rfc822, not text/plain, message

>If that is true, when I approve
>the message it should go through with the correct Content-Type, yes?


Yes, it will.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sysmda at zim.gsu.edu  Wed Jun  8 21:08:16 2005
From: sysmda at zim.gsu.edu (Mike Alberghini)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 15:08:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding abandoned lists and most recent activity
Message-ID: <20050608150816.A7726@zim.gsu.edu>

I'm the admin of a Mailman system with several hundred lists.  I'm trying to 
write some scripts that will scan the mailman directory tree and find lists 
that are abandoned, never used, etc.  

The main thing I'm trying to figure out is how to know when the last post to
a list was.  We have lists that archive (easy) lists that don't archive and 
lists that used to archive but no longer do.

Is there a flag or a file with a last-modified date that will tell me when the
last post to a list was?  I'm looking for actual posts, not messages that were
sent and rejected, deferred or held.

I'm trying to find the following kinds of lists:

1.  Lists that have been posted to in the past six months
2.  Lists that have not been posted to in the past six months
3.  Lists that have never been posted to.

I'm having trouble figuring out the difference between a list that has had no 
activity and one that does not archive.  Any suggestions would be greatly 
appreciated.

-- 
Michael Alberghini
Software Systems Engineer
Georgia State University
mike at gsu.edu


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Wed Jun  8 21:16:55 2005
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 21:16:55 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding abandoned lists and most recent activity
In-Reply-To: <20050608150816.A7726@zim.gsu.edu>
References: <20050608150816.A7726@zim.gsu.edu>
Message-ID: <20050608191655.GI15511@charite.de>

* Mike Alberghini <sysmda at zim.gsu.edu>:

> I'm the admin of a Mailman system with several hundred lists.  I'm
> trying to write some scripts that will scan the mailman directory tree
> and find lists that are abandoned, never used, etc.  

For these unused lists it's probably the easiest to scan the mail.log.

> The main thing I'm trying to figure out is how to know when the last post to
> a list was.

mail.log

> We have lists that archive (easy) lists that don't archive and lists
> that used to archive but no longer do.

Mailman logs that kind of stuff in the mailman "post" or "smtp" log.

> Is there a flag or a file with a last-modified date that will tell me when the
> last post to a list was?  I'm looking for actual posts, not messages that were
> sent and rejected, deferred or held.

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                 send no mail to spamtrap at charite.de


From duncan.salada at titan.com  Wed Jun  8 21:17:21 2005
From: duncan.salada at titan.com (Salada, Duncan S.)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 15:17:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught runner exception
Message-ID: <EE89EEE5DD89304988B882BD9BD7EF572DFA79@trs-land-exch1.trs.ad.local>

Thanks for the code snippet.  It worked very well.  I also appreciate the warning about the indentation.  I work mostly in Perl, so I don't generally have to worry about indentation.

I have a follow-up question.  Is there a source for information about the contents of the qfiles and logs directories?  Part of my time in dealing with this problem was spent trying to figure out how to follow the path of a message through mailman's different logs and qfile directories.

Duncan

-----------------------------------------------
Duncan Salada
Titan Corporation
301-925-3222 x375


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
> Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 4:21 PM
> To: Salada, Duncan S.; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught runner exception
> 
> 
> Salada, Duncan S.wrote:
> 
> >I have a problem with one of my lists.  I have 4 lists, and 
> 3 seem to be working fine.  The fourth one worked fine for 
> the first couple of weeks, but then started having problems.  
> No changes were made to the configuration during that time.  
> The problem is this: mail will not go out to any of the users.
> >
> >This list was configured to have only one recipient and 
> allow anyone to post to it (sort of a spam catcher).  I've 
> checked everything in the most applicable FAQ 
> (http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.
> 014.htp).  In the error log, I keep getting "Uncaught runner 
> exception: len() of unsized object" (the full log entry with 
> Traceback is at the bottom of the email).
> >
> >I am running Mailman 2.1.4 installed from source on Solaris 
> 6 with sendmail.
> >
> >Any help, information, suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> >==== ERROR LOG =====
> >Jun 06 15:10:09 2005 (27089) Uncaught runner exception: 
> len() of unsized object
> >Jun 06 15:10:09 2005 (27089) Traceback (most recent call last):
> >  File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", 
> line 110, in _oneloop
> >    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
> >  File "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", 
> line 160, in _onefile
> >    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> >  File 
> "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", 
> line 130, in _dispose
> >    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
> >  File 
> "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", 
> line 153, in _dopipeline
> >    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> >  File 
> "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 
> 91, in process
> >    send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
> >  File 
> "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 
> 132, in send_digests
> >    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
> >  File 
> "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 
> 306, in send_i18n_digests
> >    msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
> >  File 
> "/usr/local/mailman-2.1.4/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 
> 262, in process
> >    size = len(payload)
> >TypeError: len() of unsized object
> >
> >Jun 06 15:10:09 2005 (27089) SHUNTING: 
> 1118084879.080544+37fc5a2467c00ef900e9933a77c481ec4aa67de3
> >==== END ERROR LOG =====
> 
> 
> The error is because of a badly formed mime multipart message. The
> Mailman 2.1.6 version of Scrubber.py contains the following insert
> before the '    size = len(payload)'.
> 
> 
>       # XXX Under email 2.5, it is possible that payload will be None.
>       # This can happen when you have a Content-Type: multipart/* with
>       # only one part and that part has two blank lines between the
>       # first boundary and the end boundary.  In email 3.0 you end up
>       # with a string in the payload.  I think in this case 
> it's safe to
>       # ignore the part.
>       if payload is None:
>           continue
>       size = len(payload)
> 
> The reference to email 2.5 is the Python library email module.
> 
> These errors put the message in the shunt queue (qfiles/shunt/).
> Presumably the message or some residue of it is still elsewhere,
> probably in lists/<listname>/digest.mbox, causing this error to occur
> for each new message.
> 
> You could install the above code in Scrubber.py. If so, be careful -
> the above isn't indented the right amount and indentation counts.
> 
> Otherwise, you could try to identify the bad message in the 
> shunt queue
> and delete it and also edit digests.mbox to remove it from there too.
> Then you can probably run bin/unshunt and be OK, or if you just want
> to get things started again without worrying about lost messages, you
> can just remove the digests.mbox and delete the messages from the
> shunt queue.
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 


From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Wed Jun  8 21:26:56 2005
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 15:26:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce-events pck files...
Message-ID: <42A74680.8080505@wingfoot.org>

I run Mailman 2.1.5 on FreeBSD 4.11-RELEASE, with Apache 2.0.54, and 
Postfix 2.2.3

I was just looking in my mailman/data directory and noticed that I have 
155 of these bounce-events-#####.pck files taking up about 24 meg of 
space there.

They date back as far as January 18th of this year. Are these garbage 
files? Unprocessed bounce messages? What does one do with these--I 
didn't see anything on the FAQ or FAQ-wizard...

Thanks in advance!
Best,
--Glenn

-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary 
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." 
          ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  8 21:49:10 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 12:49:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding abandoned lists and most recent activity
In-Reply-To: <20050608150816.A7726@zim.gsu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402005060812491006256cd20e9b@msapiro>

Mike Alberghini wrote:
>
>The main thing I'm trying to figure out is how to know when the last post to
>a list was.

Lists have an attribute last_post_time which is equal to zero if the
list has never been posted to. Otherwise it is result of the Python
library time.time() function at the time of the last post. See
http://docs.python.org/lib/module-time.html#l2h-1944

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dblack at ualberta.ca  Wed Jun  8 21:57:25 2005
From: dblack at ualberta.ca (Dennis Black)
Date: Wed,  8 Jun 2005 13:57:25 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Finding abandoned lists and most recent activity
In-Reply-To: <20050608150816.A7726@zim.gsu.edu>
References: <20050608150816.A7726@zim.gsu.edu>
Message-ID: <1118260645.42a74da558acf@webapps.srv.ualberta.ca>

Quoting Mike Alberghini <sysmda at zim.gsu.edu>:

> I'm the admin of a Mailman system with several hundred lists.  I'm trying to
> write some scripts that will scan the mailman directory tree and find lists
> that are abandoned, never used, etc.
>

The following is what I use to find 'potentially' dead lists.

Mailman modifies the /list/config.pck every night processing digests, so
finding an access or modified time on those was not an option.

I used the theory that if an owner hasn't accessed their admin page in a
year, it either means their list is _very_ stable, or the list is dead.
There may also be lists that are only used once a year.

I determine the last time a list's admin page was accessed by
using a webpage counter by Muhammad A Muquit, muquit at muquit.com from

http://www.muquit.com/muquit/software/Count/Count.html

The counter is hidden on the list admin page, but I have the access time
recorded in /usr/local/etc/Counter/data in the form listname.dat:

16 Jun  6 08:00 list1.dat
16 May 28 22:39 list2.dat
16 Jun  2 12:27 list3.dat

In a year's time, I'll run a script like

#!/bin/sh
# Find lists that haven't been modified in the last year and mail report.
cd /usr/local/etc/Counter/data
find . -name '*.dat' -ctime +365 -print > /tmp/oldys
if [ -s /tmp/oldys ]; then
   cat /tmp/oldys | mailx -s "Mailman unused list check" somebody
fi
rm /tmp/oldys
exit

At that point, I can email the owners and ask if they still want the list.
Or change the script above to email each owner in a 'for..do' loop.



Dennis Black
Internet Applications
Computing and Network Services
Ph:(780)492-9329 Fx:(780)492-1729
news stats http://news.srv.ualberta.ca
mailman stats http://www.mailman.srv.ualberta.ca/graph/mailgraph


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  8 22:19:19 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:19:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce-events pck files...
In-Reply-To: <42A74680.8080505@wingfoot.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506081319190437511dcd08@msapiro>

Glenn Sieb wrote:
>
>I was just looking in my mailman/data directory and noticed that I have 
>155 of these bounce-events-#####.pck files taking up about 24 meg of 
>space there.
>
>They date back as far as January 18th of this year. Are these garbage 
>files? Unprocessed bounce messages? What does one do with these--I 
>didn't see anything on the FAQ or FAQ-wizard...

Yes, they are mostly if not all garbage and yes, they contain
unprocessed bounce messages.

The ##### in bounce-events-#####.pck is the pid of the bounce runner
that wrote the file. Here are comments from BounceRunner.py describing
the file:

# Registering a bounce means acquiring the list lock, and it would be
# too expensive to do this for each message.  Instead, each bounce
# runner maintains an event log which is essentially a file with
# multiple pickles.  Each bounce we receive gets appended to this file
# as a 4-tuple record: (listname, addr, today, msg)
#
# today is itself a 3-tuple of (year, month, day)
#
# Every once in a while (see _doperiodic()), the bounce runner cracks
# open the file, reads all the records and registers all the bounces.
# Then it truncates the file and continues on.  We don't need to lock
# the bounce event file because bounce qrunners are single threaded
# and each creates a uniquely named file to contain the events.

If the pid is not that of a running bounce runner, the file is dead and
can be deleted. Presumably, these dead files can come about if the
bounce runner dies or mailman is stopped or restarted when a non-empty
file exists.

The contents of these files can be examined with bin/dumpdb.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Wed Jun  8 22:35:12 2005
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 16:35:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce-events pck files...
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200506081319190437511dcd08@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200506081319190437511dcd08@msapiro>
Message-ID: <42A75680.4030900@wingfoot.org>

Mark Sapiro said the following on 6/8/2005 4:19 PM:

>Yes, they are mostly if not all garbage and yes, they contain
>unprocessed bounce messages.
>  
>
Ah-hah! Thank you, Mark! I think I can code up a script to safely clean
these out. :)

Thanks again!

Best,
--Glenn

-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
           ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun  8 22:40:21 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:40:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Uncaught runner exception
In-Reply-To: <EE89EEE5DD89304988B882BD9BD7EF572DFA79@trs-land-exch1.trs.ad.local>
Message-ID: <PC17402005060813402102187280d74f@msapiro>

Salada, Duncan S.wrote:
>
>I have a follow-up question.  Is there a source for information about the contents of the qfiles and logs directories?  Part of my time in dealing with this problem was spent trying to figure out how to follow the path of a message through mailman's different logs and qfile directories.
>

A high level overview is in comments in
Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py. This does not cover the detail of the
post from receipt to delivery. Basically, this consists of the
IncomingRunner passing the message through the pipeline of
Mailman/Handlers/* modules defined by GLOBAL_PIPELINE in
Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py.

The qfiles/* directories are the queues for the various runners. the
files therein each contain a message and various processing
information about the message. The contents is best viewed with
bin/show_qfiles although if there is a problem with the queue entry
that causes a processing error, bin/show_qfiles will probably get the
same error. In this case, bin/dumpdb might be helpful.

As far as I know, there is no documentation of log entries other thatn
looking at the code that writes them.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Smeg at ostat.com  Thu Jun  9 01:22:26 2005
From: Smeg at ostat.com (smeg)
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 09:22:26 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Send Mail delay
Message-ID: <42A77DB2.4010809@ostat.com>

    I have recently set up mailman (2.1.5p2) and am very impressed with it.
    I have a question though, is it possible to have it delay the 
sending of the messages?
    If  send to many emails in period x through my mail server it locks 
me out for about 1 hour. If i could specify a time delay between each 
message, this would fix the problem.
    What i find is my mail server will only allow about 100 emails 
/hour. My list has about 80 people on it, so if 2 messages are sent in 
in one hour i have a problem.

    Thanks for any help u can give on this issue.

Cheers Chris


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  9 01:59:38 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 16:59:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Send Mail delay
In-Reply-To: <42A77DB2.4010809@ostat.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005060816593803903665afcc@msapiro>

smeg <Smeg at ostat.com> (Chris) wrote:

>    I have recently set up mailman (2.1.5p2) and am very impressed with it.
>    I have a question though, is it possible to have it delay the 
>sending of the messages?
>    If  send to many emails in period x through my mail server it locks 
>me out for about 1 hour. If i could specify a time delay between each 
>message, this would fix the problem.
>    What i find is my mail server will only allow about 100 emails 
>/hour. My list has about 80 people on it, so if 2 messages are sent in 
>in one hour i have a problem.

You can't do this directly in mailman. There are some discussions of
these kinds of issues in the archives for the mailman-users list, but
I can't find any right now.

Even if you could do as you suggest, I don't think it would be a good
idea. Suppose your list started getting more than 24 posts per day.
You'd never work through the backlog.

Here's a thought. Set your list so only digest subscribers are allowed
(nondigestable = No on Non-digest options), make sure
digest_send_periodic is Yes and set all your current subscribers to
digest. Then set the crontab for the senddigests job to run it every
hour.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  9 02:07:41 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 17:07:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Send Mail delay
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005060816593803903665afcc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC17402005060817074103753665afc0@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>You can't do this directly in mailman. There are some discussions of
>these kinds of issues in the archives for the mailman-users list, but
>I can't find any right now.

Shame on me. There's a FAQ on this at
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.051.htp.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From acklein at siteplan.com  Thu Jun  9 16:19:43 2005
From: acklein at siteplan.com (Andrew Klein)
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 10:19:43 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator Notifications Being Discarded
Message-ID: <42A84FFF.9060901@siteplan.com>

I have a list where moderator notifications appear to be discarded.  I 
have confirmed admin_immed_notify is turned on.  I have tried it with 
different moderator addresses.  I believe the 'vette' log is telling me 
that the message is being discarded.  I have debugged the source code in 
Queue/IncomingRunner.py and can kind of see what is going on.  The 
DiscardMessage exception is getting thrown somewhere but I cannot figure 
out why or where.  Anyone have a clue on this or how to debug it?  I am 
happy to mess with the source code to narrow it down.



From julien at francoz.net  Thu Jun  9 16:39:27 2005
From: julien at francoz.net (Julien Francoz CoCoZ)
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 16:39:27 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subject_prefix is missing
Message-ID: <42A8549F.1010901@francoz.net>

I have a list with subject_prefix=[dept-linux/pedago] , but since a few 
hours, this prefix is not added to the subject of mails of this list.
Is there an options to allow/deny the subject_prefix ?

Note: This prefix is added to all mails in the mailing-list archive, 
even for mail which are delivered without subject_prefix.

Thanks

--
Julien Francoz CoCoZ


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  9 16:42:28 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 07:42:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator Notifications Being Discarded
In-Reply-To: <42A84FFF.9060901@siteplan.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020050609074228018747b27317@msapiro>

Andrew Klein wrote:

>I have a list where moderator notifications appear to be discarded.  I 
>have confirmed admin_immed_notify is turned on.  I have tried it with 
>different moderator addresses.  I believe the 'vette' log is telling me 
>that the message is being discarded.  I have debugged the source code in 
>Queue/IncomingRunner.py and can kind of see what is going on.  The 
>DiscardMessage exception is getting thrown somewhere but I cannot figure 
>out why or where.  Anyone have a clue on this or how to debug it?  I am 
>happy to mess with the source code to narrow it down.

Try sending an e-mail to listname-owner at ... and see what happens to
that.

Owner notification is a two step process. The notice is created for
listname-owner and placed in the virgin queue where it is picked up
and sent to listname-owner and treated as any other message sent to
the listname-owner address.

Sending your own mail to listname-owner will at least tell you whether
the mail is lost in the first or second step. If everything is normal,
there are two entries in the 'smtp' log for the notice - one (with one
recipient) when it is sent to listname-owner and one with n recipients
when it is sent to the n owners/moderators.

If mail to listname-owner doesn't work, check the alias.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun  9 16:44:37 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 07:44:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subject_prefix is missing
In-Reply-To: <42A8549F.1010901@francoz.net>
Message-ID: <PC174020050609074437096847b2762d@msapiro>

Julien Francoz CoCoZ wrote:

>I have a list with subject_prefix=[dept-linux/pedago] , but since a few 
>hours, this prefix is not added to the subject of mails of this list.
>Is there an options to allow/deny the subject_prefix ?
>
>Note: This prefix is added to all mails in the mailing-list archive, 
>even for mail which are delivered without subject_prefix.

Are you sure you're not seeing messages delivered by direct To: or Cc:
outside of Mailman?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From acklein at siteplan.com  Thu Jun  9 17:11:09 2005
From: acklein at siteplan.com (Andrew Klein)
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 11:11:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator Notifications Being Discarded
In-Reply-To: <PC174020050609074228018747b27317@msapiro>
References: <PC174020050609074228018747b27317@msapiro>
Message-ID: <42A85C0D.8060605@siteplan.com>

Mark,

Thanks.  By sending to "listname-owner at ..." I found the problem was a 
messed up aliases file.  Instead of sending to the owner, it was trying 
to post.

Andy

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Andrew Klein wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I have a list where moderator notifications appear to be discarded.  I 
>>have confirmed admin_immed_notify is turned on.  I have tried it with 
>>different moderator addresses.  I believe the 'vette' log is telling me 
>>that the message is being discarded.  I have debugged the source code in 
>>Queue/IncomingRunner.py and can kind of see what is going on.  The 
>>DiscardMessage exception is getting thrown somewhere but I cannot figure 
>>out why or where.  Anyone have a clue on this or how to debug it?  I am 
>>happy to mess with the source code to narrow it down.
>>    
>>
>
>Try sending an e-mail to listname-owner at ... and see what happens to
>that.
>
>Owner notification is a two step process. The notice is created for
>listname-owner and placed in the virgin queue where it is picked up
>and sent to listname-owner and treated as any other message sent to
>the listname-owner address.
>
>Sending your own mail to listname-owner will at least tell you whether
>the mail is lost in the first or second step. If everything is normal,
>there are two entries in the 'smtp' log for the notice - one (with one
>recipient) when it is sent to listname-owner and one with n recipients
>when it is sent to the n owners/moderators.
>
>If mail to listname-owner doesn't work, check the alias.
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>  
>



From julien at francoz.net  Thu Jun  9 17:17:21 2005
From: julien at francoz.net (Julien Francoz CoCoZ)
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 17:17:21 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subject_prefix is missing
In-Reply-To: <PC174020050609074437096847b2762d@msapiro>
References: <PC174020050609074437096847b2762d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <42A85D81.9030406@francoz.net>

 > Are you sure you're not seeing messages delivered by direct To: or Cc:
 > outside of Mailman?

I'm seeing the message coming from mailman:

From: sender address
Reply-To: mailing list address
To: mailing list address
...
and the footer:
Equipe-pedagogique-linux mailing list
Equipe-pedagogique-linux at minux.esi-supinfo.com
http://minux.esi-supinfo.com/mailman/listinfo/equipe-pedagogique-linux


--
Julien Francoz CoCoZ


From julien at francoz.net  Thu Jun  9 19:25:40 2005
From: julien at francoz.net (Julien Francoz CoCoZ)
Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2005 19:25:40 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails are not deliver for one mailing-list
Message-ID: <42A87B94.4090702@francoz.net>

I have another problem on one mailing-list. It was working fine, but 
since 2 days, all mails to list departement-linux at minux.esi-supinfo.com 
are not deliver. All others mailing lists are working fine.

Here are the logs of mailman for this list

post:Jun 09 12:07:49 2005 (23711) post to departement-linux from 
julien.francoz at supinfo.com, size=6134, 
message-id=<42A81532.6060503 at supinfo.com>, success

smtp:Jun 09 12:07:49 2005 (23711) <42A81532.6060503 at supinfo.com> smtp 
for 40 recips, completed in 2.202 seconds

There is no error in postfix logs.

Have you got an idea ?

(it's the mailman package on MacosX server)


--
Julien Francoz CoCoZ


From daevid at daevid.com  Thu Jun  9 20:53:46 2005
From: daevid at daevid.com (Daevid Vincent)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 11:53:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto discard non-members messages
Message-ID: <20050609185420.7F4331E4004@bag.python.org>

I'm starting to see a lot of spam sent to my two lists. Both are members
only. 

I'd like mailman to automatically discard any messages sent to the list from
non-members. However, I would like to accept (and send to me/admin) any
subscribe request messages (otherwise, how would I get new members ;-)

Can someone tell me how to do this?



From dojai at ufv.br  Thu Jun  9 21:51:19 2005
From: dojai at ufv.br (Eduardo Jaime Quiros Batres)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:51:19 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] who approved a message
Message-ID: <200506091651.20307.dojai@ufv.br>

Good afternoon,

 How can I discover wich adminstrator/moderator approved a message?
-- 
Eduardo Jaime Quir?s Batres - dojai at ufv.br
 


From chad at shire.net  Thu Jun  9 22:33:14 2005
From: chad at shire.net (Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 14:33:14 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] after check_perms -f -- cgis no longer work
Message-ID: <E3D9C93B-E289-49A6-BE7D-8004BE5258A9@shire.net>

Hi

On a gentoo linux box with a from source made 2.1.5 (not from  
emerge), mailman was happily running, except some archives were not  
being updated.  I ran a bin/check_perms -f and now the cgis (listinfo  
or any of them) are no longer working and the apache error log shows  
the (infamous) "Premature end of script headers: /web/xxxx.com/ 
mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo" error.

Neither mailman or apache have been updated recently and before the  
check_perms it was working fine.  If I go in as mailman and run the  
cgi listinfo at the command line, for example, it dumps the right html.

I went back and looked at the config in the mailman source and it has  
good cgi_gid set for example.

I am stumped. I have messed around with the permissions and ownership  
of the cgi and run check_perms -f a few times (says no problems) but  
the cgis won't run.

Any hints or pointers would be appreciated.

Thanks
Chad

---
Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC
Your Web App and Email hosting provider
chad at shire.net




From chad at shire.net  Thu Jun  9 23:07:07 2005
From: chad at shire.net (Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 15:07:07 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [SOLVED] Re: after check_perms -f -- cgis no longer
	work
In-Reply-To: <E3D9C93B-E289-49A6-BE7D-8004BE5258A9@shire.net>
References: <E3D9C93B-E289-49A6-BE7D-8004BE5258A9@shire.net>
Message-ID: <200262FB-C4DE-425C-BC24-0DAC635862C3@shire.net>


On Jun 9, 2005, at 2:33 PM, Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC wrote:

> Hi
>
> On a gentoo linux box with a from source made 2.1.5 (not from  
> emerge), mailman was happily running, except some archives were not  
> being updated.  I ran a bin/check_perms -f and now the cgis  
> (listinfo or any of them) are no longer working and the apache  
> error log shows the (infamous) "Premature end of script headers: / 
> web/xxxx.com/mailman/cgi-bin/listinfo" error.
>
> Neither mailman or apache have been updated recently and before the  
> check_perms it was working fine.  If I go in as mailman and run the  
> cgi listinfo at the command line, for example, it dumps the right  
> html.
>
> I went back and looked at the config in the mailman source and it  
> has good cgi_gid set for example.
>
> I am stumped. I have messed around with the permissions and  
> ownership of the cgi and run check_perms -f a few times (says no  
> problems) but the cgis won't run.

I found the suexec.log in the apache log dir (had not noticed it  
before :-(  )

In it was

[2005-06-09 14:55:29]: info: (target/actual) uid: (mailman/mailman)  
gid: (mailman/mailman) cmd: listinfo
[2005-06-09 14:55:29]: error: directory is writable by others: (/ 
local/web/object.com/mailman/cgi-bin)


If I take the group write off the mailman cgi directory it works now...

maybe check_perms should check for that as it is probably a common  
case, especially in virtual hosts situations

Thanks
Chad


>
> Any hints or pointers would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks
> Chad
>
> ---
> Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC
> Your Web App and Email hosting provider
> chad at shire.net
>
>
>

---
Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC
Your Web App and Email hosting provider
chad at shire.net




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 10 01:46:12 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:46:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] who approved a message
In-Reply-To: <200506091651.20307.dojai@ufv.br>
Message-ID: <PC17402005060916461209843c801d04@msapiro>

Eduardo Jaime Quiros Batres wrote:
>
> How can I discover wich adminstrator/moderator approved a message?

Ask them :-)

There's no way to find this out from Mailman.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 10 02:19:04 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:19:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto discard non-members messages
In-Reply-To: <20050609185420.7F4331E4004@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506091719040687ecf32993@msapiro>

Daevid Vincent wrote:

>I'm starting to see a lot of spam sent to my two lists. Both are members
>only. 
>
>I'd like mailman to automatically discard any messages sent to the list from
>non-members. However, I would like to accept (and send to me/admin) any
>subscribe request messages (otherwise, how would I get new members ;-)

What do you consider a subscribe request? If you mean a message sent to
the list posting address (listname at example.com) with a subject or
message body saying "please subscribe me" or something like that, then
you can't do what you want because these messages will be discarded
like any other non-member post.

If you consider a subscribe request to be a message sent to the
listname-subscribe at example.com or listname-join at example.com address or
to the listname-request at example.com address with subject or body
"subscribe", then this is easy. You can set subscribe_policy to
require your approval or not. You can set admin_notify_mchanges to Yes
so you get notified of subscribes and unsubscribes. You can set
generic_nonmember_action to Discard so non-member posts will be
discarded.

So, if you're not concerned about subscribe requests sent to the list
posting address, you can discard all non-member posts. If you want to
see a potential subscribe request that's sent to the list posting
address, then you have to Hold non-member posts.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 10 02:47:39 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:47:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails are not deliver for one mailing-list
In-Reply-To: <42A87B94.4090702@francoz.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506091747390265742dd790@msapiro>

Julien Francoz CoCoZ wrote:

>I have another problem on one mailing-list. It was working fine, but 
>since 2 days, all mails to list departement-linux at minux.esi-supinfo.com 
>are not deliver. All others mailing lists are working fine.
>
>Here are the logs of mailman for this list
>
>post:Jun 09 12:07:49 2005 (23711) post to departement-linux from 
>julien.francoz at supinfo.com, size=6134, 
>message-id=<42A81532.6060503 at supinfo.com>, success
>
>smtp:Jun 09 12:07:49 2005 (23711) <42A81532.6060503 at supinfo.com> smtp 
>for 40 recips, completed in 2.202 seconds
>
>There is no error in postfix logs.

The smtp log entry says the message was delivered to postfix on behalf
of 40 recipients. Is there an smtp-failure log? If not or if so but
there's no entry for this message, then the delivery to postfix was
successful. Is there anything in the bounce log? Maybe it's still
queued in postfix.

>(it's the mailman package on MacosX server)

See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 10 03:06:56 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 18:06:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subject_prefix is missing
In-Reply-To: <42A85D81.9030406@francoz.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402005060918065609687641f220@msapiro>

Julien Francoz CoCoZ wrote:

> > Are you sure you're not seeing messages delivered by direct To: or Cc:
> > outside of Mailman?
>
>I'm seeing the message coming from mailman:


Then I have no idea how this can happen. In standard Mailman, the
subject_prefix is added in the CookHeaders.py handler before the
message is sent to the digest, archive and list. If the prefix is in
the archived message, I can't see how it could not be in the message
to the list.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sonne at sunduin.net  Fri Jun 10 10:17:02 2005
From: sonne at sunduin.net (Meike Aulbach)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:17:02 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SMTPDirect issues (Name or service not known)
Message-ID: <20050610081700.GA7343@mail.sunduin.de>

Hello all,

I'm currently in the process of setting up a mailinglist with mailman.
The installation process worked fine, mails are correctly delivered
to mailman by exim:

    mainlog.1:2005-06-09 22:00:38 1DgTCg-0000LI-Im ** xx-ml at zzzzz.net
    F=<sender at xyz.net> R=mailman_router T=mailman_transport: Child process
    of mailman_transport transport returned 2 from command:
    /var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman

In fact mailman fails to deliver mails to any recipient. The
smtp-failure log says for each subscriber:

    Jun 09 22:00:35 2005 (32666) delivery to xxx at zzzz.net failed with
    code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')

As I googled a lot yesterday, I know that this is an issue on the name
resolving level. It appears when doing a telnet connect to an unknown
hostname.  But I fail to reproduce this error when connecting manually
to the configured hostname or localhost with telnet or even python and
smtplib.

I have added the following lines from Default.py to mm_cfg.py:

DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
SMTPPORT = 0

Now these are the default values, but I tried a lot of other values
on them, e.g. 'mx-name', 'mx-IP', '127.0.0.1' for SMTPHOST, 25 for
SMTPPORT). After every change to the values in mm_cfg.py I did a
restart of mailman. (/etc/init.d/mailman restart on Debian, or is
there anything else that needs to be restarted?)

localhost, mx-name etc. are in fact resolvable. Their IP-addresses
are in /etc/hosts, /etc/host.conf is set to order hosts,bind.

I connected to python manually like suggested in the thread on this
list only recently ([Mailman-Users] Mailman just doesn"t send the
messages... :-():

zzzzz:~# python
Python 2.3.5 (#2, Feb  9 2005, 00:38:15) 
[GCC 3.3.5 (Debian 1:3.3.5-8)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import smtplib
>>> SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
>>> SMTPPORT = 0
>>> x = smtplib.SMTP()
>>> x.connect(SMTPHOST,SMTPPORT)
(220, 'mx.zzzzz.net ESMTP Exim 4.50 Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:58:50 +0200')
>>> x.quit()
>>> 
zzzzzz:~# 

So the default values (localhost,0) _should_ work for me, but apparently
they don't. I tried the manual python connect with mx-name and additionally
sent out an e-mail with the smtplib-module, and I simply cannot
reproduce the "Name or service not known" error at any step of the mail
sending process. The hostname of the machine (/etc/hostname) is also
in /etc/hosts and can be resolved (checked with telnet hostname 25).

I went so far and edited SMTPDirect.py just to find out whether the
values of SMTPHOST and SMTPPORT maybe are not reached through to the
module from mm_cfg.py:

        #self.__conn.connect(mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
	self.__conn.connect('localhost', 0)

But mails are still not delivered. I really know nothing about python,
so maybe this is due because SMTPDirect.py is compiled to SMTPDirect.pyo
and SMTPDirect.pyc, so my changes to SMTPDirect.py are never regarded
by the program? I don't really want to make changes to the SMTPDirect-
module, so maybe anyone here can point out to me where and how I could
go on with debugging this issue? :)

I'd be very glad to hear from you!

Best wishes,
Meike

-- 
Meike Aulbach <sonne at sunduin.net>


From mrei0999 at uni-hildesheim.de  Fri Jun 10 11:06:07 2005
From: mrei0999 at uni-hildesheim.de (Meike Reichle)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:06:07 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages without Date:
Message-ID: <42A957FF.5060004@uni-hildesheim.de>

Hi all

maybe you can help me with a small problem: When creating a new mailing
list using the web interface I receive two emails, the confirmation
email and another one telling me which aliases I have to create. The
latter however comes without a Date: line in the header. I am not sure
whether this is a mailman issue or rather a flaw in my system/MTA
configuration.
It's more an inconvenience than an actual problem but I'd like to fix it
anyway. So, if anyone can provide a hint ...

Regards
Meike

-- 
Meike Reichle - University of Hildesheim

mail:	mrei0999 at uni-hildesheim.de
www:	www.uni-hildesheim.de/~mrei0999



From stephen at xemacs.org  Fri Jun 10 11:45:13 2005
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:45:13 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto discard non-members messages
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200506091719040687ecf32993@msapiro> (Mark Sapiro's
	message of "Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:19:04 -0700")
References: <PC1740200506091719040687ecf32993@msapiro>
Message-ID: <87wtp2wno6.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Mark" == Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> writes:

    Mark> What do you consider a subscribe request? If you mean a
    Mark> message sent to the list posting address
    Mark> (listname at example.com) with a subject or message body saying
    Mark> "please subscribe me" or something like that, then you can't
    Mark> do what you want because these messages will be discarded
    Mark> like any other non-member post.

This is probably true, but it doesn't need to be.  Normally the lists
filter administrivia.  So if you put the administrivia filter HOLD
before the non-member filter DISCARD, Daevid should win here, too.

I'll check this and if necessary submit a wishlist RFE, maybe even a
patch, since it seems logical and harmless.  It will be some time
(weeks, maybe), so anyone can feel free to beat me to the punch.  :-)

-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From julien at francoz.net  Fri Jun 10 11:50:04 2005
From: julien at francoz.net (Julien Francoz CoCoZ)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:50:04 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails are not deliver for one mailing-list
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200506091747390265742dd790@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200506091747390265742dd790@msapiro>
Message-ID: <42A9624C.1030800@francoz.net>

I've found the solution :

The destination SMTP drops mails when there are too much mails in one 
connection (>20).

I have change an option in Postfix, it's good now.

Thanks


Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Julien Francoz CoCoZ wrote:
> 
> 
>>I have another problem on one mailing-list. It was working fine, but 
>>since 2 days, all mails to list departement-linux at minux.esi-supinfo.com 
>>are not deliver. All others mailing lists are working fine.
>>
>>Here are the logs of mailman for this list
>>
>>post:Jun 09 12:07:49 2005 (23711) post to departement-linux from 
>>julien.francoz at supinfo.com, size=6134, 
>>message-id=<42A81532.6060503 at supinfo.com>, success
>>
>>smtp:Jun 09 12:07:49 2005 (23711) <42A81532.6060503 at supinfo.com> smtp 
>>for 40 recips, completed in 2.202 seconds
>>
>>There is no error in postfix logs.
> 
> 
> The smtp log entry says the message was delivered to postfix on behalf
> of 40 recipients. Is there an smtp-failure log? If not or if so but
> there's no entry for this message, then the delivery to postfix was
> successful. Is there anything in the bounce log? Maybe it's still
> queued in postfix.
> 
> 
>>(it's the mailman package on MacosX server)
> 
> 
> See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 10 17:59:24 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:59:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Auto discard non-members messages
In-Reply-To: <87wtp2wno6.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506100859240390760da25e@msapiro>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>>>>>> "Mark" == Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> writes:
>
>    Mark> What do you consider a subscribe request? If you mean a
>    Mark> message sent to the list posting address
>    Mark> (listname at example.com) with a subject or message body saying
>    Mark> "please subscribe me" or something like that, then you can't
>    Mark> do what you want because these messages will be discarded
>    Mark> like any other non-member post.
>
>This is probably true, but it doesn't need to be.  Normally the lists
>filter administrivia.  So if you put the administrivia filter HOLD
>before the non-member filter DISCARD, Daevid should win here, too.

All that needs to be done to do administrivia filtering before
non-member reject/discard is to rearrange the GLOBAL_PIPELINE (in
mm_cfg.py) to put 'hold' before 'moderate', or create a 'pipeline'
attribute for the list which is like GLOBAL_PIPELINE but with 'hold'
before 'moderate'. However, this will have other effects which may or
may not be undesirable. Thus, a patch to just move the administrivia
test might be preferable.

The real problem, and the reason I didn't mention administrivia in my
original reply, is I don't think the administrivia filter as it
currently exists is going to be very effective for arbitrary "I want
to subscribe" requests sent to the list posting address. It only
catches things that look like syntactically correct commands.=, i.e.,
lines that look like

keyword arg list

where 'keyword' is a command and 'arg list' is an appropriaite length
for the command. Thus it will catch a message with subject or a body
line

subscribe me

but it won't catch

please subscribe me

or even

subscribe me to this list

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 10 18:36:46 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:36:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SMTPDirect issues (Name or service not known)
In-Reply-To: <20050610081700.GA7343@mail.sunduin.de>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506100936460234e1a4fe98@msapiro>

Meike Aulbach wrote:
>
>Now these are the default values, but I tried a lot of other values
>on them, e.g. 'mx-name', 'mx-IP', '127.0.0.1' for SMTPHOST, 25 for
>SMTPPORT). After every change to the values in mm_cfg.py I did a
>restart of mailman. (/etc/init.d/mailman restart on Debian, or is
>there anything else that needs to be restarted?)


No, that's all that needs to be done after mm_cfg.py changes.


>localhost, mx-name etc. are in fact resolvable. Their IP-addresses
>are in /etc/hosts, /etc/host.conf is set to order hosts,bind.


See the post at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-June/045071.html
The similar issue there was due to /etc/hosts not being readable by
other than root.


>I connected to python manually like suggested in the thread on this
>list only recently ([Mailman-Users] Mailman just doesn"t send the
>messages... :-():
>
>zzzzz:~# python
>Python 2.3.5 (#2, Feb  9 2005, 00:38:15) 
>[GCC 3.3.5 (Debian 1:3.3.5-8)] on linux2
>Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import smtplib
>>>> SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
>>>> SMTPPORT = 0
>>>> x = smtplib.SMTP()
>>>> x.connect(SMTPHOST,SMTPPORT)
>(220, 'mx.zzzzz.net ESMTP Exim 4.50 Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:58:50 +0200')
>>>> x.quit()
>>>> 
>zzzzzz:~# 
>
>So the default values (localhost,0) _should_ work for me, but apparently
>they don't. I tried the manual python connect with mx-name and additionally
>sent out an e-mail with the smtplib-module, and I simply cannot
>reproduce the "Name or service not known" error at any step of the mail
>sending process. The hostname of the machine (/etc/hostname) is also
>in /etc/hosts and can be resolved (checked with telnet hostname 25).


Did you try doing these things as the 'mailman' user?


>I went so far and edited SMTPDirect.py just to find out whether the
>values of SMTPHOST and SMTPPORT maybe are not reached through to the
>module from mm_cfg.py:
>
>        #self.__conn.connect(mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
>	self.__conn.connect('localhost', 0)
>
>But mails are still not delivered. I really know nothing about python,
>so maybe this is due because SMTPDirect.py is compiled to SMTPDirect.pyo
>and SMTPDirect.pyc, so my changes to SMTPDirect.py are never regarded
>by the program?


If you change a *.py module, the next time it is used, Python will see
that it is more recent than the corresponding *.py[co] and recompile.

You probably do need to restart Mailman in case old copies are cached
in the qrunners.


>I don't really want to make changes to the SMTPDirect-
>module, so maybe anyone here can point out to me where and how I could
>go on with debugging this issue? :)


You shouldn't need to edit SMTPDirect.py to debug this. The Python code
snippet above and the more elaborate one in the post at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-May/044742.html do
exactly what SMTPDirect.py does. If they don't fail it's because you
aren't running them in the same way as the mailman OutgoingRunner is
run, i.e. same python, same user, ...

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sonne at sunduin.net  Fri Jun 10 19:26:12 2005
From: sonne at sunduin.net (Meike Aulbach)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 19:26:12 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SMTPDirect issues (Name or service not known)
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200506100936460234e1a4fe98@msapiro>
References: <20050610081700.GA7343@mail.sunduin.de>
	<PC1740200506100936460234e1a4fe98@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20050610172610.GA13992@mail.sunduin.de>

Hello!

Thanks for the reply :)

On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 09:36:46AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> See the post at
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-June/045071.html
> The similar issue there was due to /etc/hosts not being readable by
> other than root.

Should be ok, readable by everyone:

zzzz:~# ls -l /etc/hosts
-rw-r--r--  1 root root 438 Jun  9 22:28 /etc/hosts
zzzz:~# 

> Did you try doing these things as the 'mailman' user?

The mailman scripts run as 'list' user:

zzzz:~# ps uax | grep mailman
list     15160  0.0  0.5  7796 5468 ?        Ss   19:09   0:00
/usr/bin/python /usr/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl -s start
list     15161  0.1  0.5  7600 5300 ?        S    19:09   0:00
/usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
list     15162  0.1  0.5  7520 5320 ?        S    19:09   0:00
/usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1
-s
list     15163  0.0  0.5  7628 5312 ?        S    19:09   0:00
/usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1
-s
list     15164  0.1  0.5  7516 5300 ?        S    19:09   0:00
/usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1
-s
list     15165  0.1  0.5  7608 5336 ?        S    19:09   0:00
/usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
list     15166  0.1  0.5  7904 5604 ?        S    19:09   0:00
/usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1
-s
list     15167  0.0  0.5  7516 5296 ?        S    19:09   0:00
/usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1
-s
list     15168  0.1  0.5  7508 5292 ?        S    19:09   0:00
/usr/bin/python /var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
root     15246  0.0  0.0  1556  524 pts/0    R+   19:13   0:00 grep
mailman
zzzz:~# 

> If you change a *.py module, the next time it is used, Python will see
> that it is more recent than the corresponding *.py[co] and recompile.
> 
> You probably do need to restart Mailman in case old copies are cached
> in the qrunners.

So mailman is probably really connecting to 'localhost' and 0 as I
hardcoded that in SMTPDirect.py (see my last mail).

> You shouldn't need to edit SMTPDirect.py to debug this. The Python code
> snippet above and the more elaborate one in the post at
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-May/044742.html do
> exactly what SMTPDirect.py does. If they don't fail it's because you
> aren't running them in the same way as the mailman OutgoingRunner is
> run, i.e. same python, same user, ...

I have only python 2.3 installed on the system (debian package). The
mailman OutgoingRunner runs as user 'list' according to the process
list.

When I do a manual connect as user 'list' it still works. I went through 
the complete procedure:

zzzz:~# su - list
No directory, logging in with HOME=/
list at zzzz:/$ python
Python 2.3.5 (#2, Feb  9 2005, 00:38:15) 
[GCC 3.3.5 (Debian 1:3.3.5-8)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import smtplib
>>> SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
>>> SMTPPORT = 0
>>> msg = """Subject: Test
... Message-ID: 12345 at zzzz.net
... From: sonne at zzzz.net
... To: sonne at zzzz.net 
... 
... The body
... """
>>> rcpts = ['sonne at xyz.net','mae at xyz.de']
>>> env = 'list-bounce at zzzz.net'
>>> x = smtplib.SMTP()
>>> x.connect(SMTPHOST,SMTPPORT)
(220, 'mx.zzzz.net ESMTP Exim 4.50 Fri, 10 Jun 2005 19:21:13 +0200')
>>> x.sendmail(env,rcpts,msg)
{}
>>> x.quit()
>>> 
list at zzzz:/$ 

So it unfortunately doesn't fail. Never imagined that I ever might be
wishing something finally fails ;)

With best wishes,
Meike

-- 
Meike Aulbach <sonne at sunduin.net>


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 10 19:47:37 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:47:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] messages without Date:
In-Reply-To: <42A957FF.5060004@uni-hildesheim.de>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506101047370906cddb8a8f@msapiro>

Meike Reichle wrote:
>
>maybe you can help me with a small problem: When creating a new mailing
>list using the web interface I receive two emails, the confirmation
>email and another one telling me which aliases I have to create. The
>latter however comes without a Date: line in the header. I am not sure
>whether this is a mailman issue or rather a flaw in my system/MTA
>configuration.
>It's more an inconvenience than an actual problem but I'd like to fix it
>anyway. So, if anyone can provide a hint ...

This is both a Mailman and an MTA problem. The MTA side is somewhat
controversial, but under some circumstances, when the MTA receives a
message without a Date:, it should add it. In your case it doesn't and
this is arguably correct - some at least say that the MTA should only
add Date:, Message-Id: and such headers when acting as an MUA.

On the Mailman side, Mailman should add these headers, but doesn't in
the case of the alias notification.

If you look at Mailman/Cgi/create.py, you'll see that it creates and
sends the "confirmation" e-mail as follows:

        msg = Message.UserNotification(
            owner, siteowner,
            _('Your new mailing list: %(listname)s'),
            text, mlist.preferred_language)
        msg.send(mlist)

It is the send() method that adds the Date: and Message-Id: headers.

The create module also (actually just before sending the confirmation)
calles the MTA specific module defined by the Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py
variable MTA which in your case is 'Manual'. This module,
Mailman/MTA/Manual.py, creates the "aliases" message as above but
enqueues it directly rather than using the send() method to send it.

I think the simplest (but maybe not the best) way to fix this in
Mailman is to add

    if not msg.has_key('date'):
        msg['Date'] = email.Utils.formatdate(localtime=1)

following

    msg = Message.UserNotification(
        siteowner, siteowner,
        _('Mailing list creation request for list %(listname)s'),
        sfp.getvalue(), mm_cfg.DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE)

in the creation part of Manual.py and similarly in the deletion part.
Note that this also requires

import email.Utils

to be added.


--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dennis.putnam at aimaudit.com  Fri Jun 10 19:55:48 2005
From: dennis.putnam at aimaudit.com (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:55:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Public Mailing list
Message-ID: <7bf69eacb2b2c4d0b60956016ba32117@aimaudit.com>

I cannot see how to create a public mailing list. I want to create a 
list that allows anyone to post a message (non-subscribers) but 
distribute the message  to list members. Can someone point me in the 
right direction? TIA.

Dennis Putnam
Sr. IT Systems Administrator
AIM Systems, Inc.
11675 Rainwater Dr., Suite 200
Alpharetta, GA  30004
Phone: 678-240-4112
Main Phone: 678-297-0700
FAX: 678-297-2666 or 770-576-1000
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments is 
strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, 
dissemination, distribution, or duplication of any part of this e-mail 
or any attachment is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all copies, 
including the attachments.



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 10 20:09:11 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:09:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Public Mailing list
In-Reply-To: <7bf69eacb2b2c4d0b60956016ba32117@aimaudit.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020050610110911034371f35ac2@msapiro>

Dennis Putnam wrote:

>I cannot see how to create a public mailing list. I want to create a 
>list that allows anyone to post a message (non-subscribers) but 
>distribute the message  to list members. Can someone point me in the 
>right direction? TIA.

Privacy options...->Sender filters->generic_nonmember_action = Accept
 
--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 10 20:35:39 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:35:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SMTPDirect issues (Name or service not known)
In-Reply-To: <20050610172610.GA13992@mail.sunduin.de>
Message-ID: <PC174020050610113539073471f35c65@msapiro>

Meike Aulbach wrote:
>
>So mailman is probably really connecting to 'localhost' and 0 as I
>hardcoded that in SMTPDirect.py (see my last mail).


Yes.


>When I do a manual connect as user 'list' it still works. I went through 
>the complete procedure:
>
>zzzz:~# su - list
>No directory, logging in with HOME=/
>list at zzzz:/$ python
>Python 2.3.5 (#2, Feb  9 2005, 00:38:15) 
>[GCC 3.3.5 (Debian 1:3.3.5-8)] on linux2
>Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>>> import smtplib
>>>> SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
>>>> SMTPPORT = 0
>>>> msg = """Subject: Test
>... Message-ID: 12345 at zzzz.net
>... From: sonne at zzzz.net
>... To: sonne at zzzz.net 
>... 
>... The body
>... """
>>>> rcpts = ['sonne at xyz.net','mae at xyz.de']
>>>> env = 'list-bounce at zzzz.net'
>>>> x = smtplib.SMTP()
>>>> x.connect(SMTPHOST,SMTPPORT)
>(220, 'mx.zzzz.net ESMTP Exim 4.50 Fri, 10 Jun 2005 19:21:13 +0200')
>>>> x.sendmail(env,rcpts,msg)
>{}
>>>> x.quit()
>>>> 
>list at zzzz:/$ 
>
>So it unfortunately doesn't fail. Never imagined that I ever might be
>wishing something finally fails ;)

Well, I'm out of ideas at this point. It looks like you may have to
modify SMTPDirect.py and add some debugging. You could try sprinkling
calls of the form

    syslog('smtp-failure', 'some format string %s and %s', var1, var2)

in various places to try to get more information. For example, change

    def __connect(self):
        self.__conn = smtplib.SMTP()
        self.__conn.connect(mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
        self.__numsessions = mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION

to

    def __connect(self):
        self.__conn = smtplib.SMTP()
        syslog('smtp-failure', 'host = %s, port = %s',
               mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
        x = self.__conn.connect(mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
        syslog('smtp-failure', 'connect returns: %s', x)
        self.__numsessions = mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION


--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mdunston at music.vt.edu  Sat Jun 11 08:14:02 2005
From: mdunston at music.vt.edu (michael dunston)
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 02:14:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] htdig integration or other searchable archive
	methods for v2.1.6?
Message-ID: <r02010500-1041-01BC5D3CDA4011D9859000112475E44C@[10.0.1.2]>

Is there any way to get (internally) searchable archives within the recent 2.1.6 release? (the most recent mailman/htdig integration patch #444884 is listed for 2.1.5)

<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=444884&group_id=103&atid=300103>

Thanks in advance for any suggestions. 


From sonne at sunduin.net  Sat Jun 11 14:06:47 2005
From: sonne at sunduin.net (Meike Aulbach)
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 14:06:47 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SMTPDirect issues (Name or service not known)
In-Reply-To: <PC174020050610113539073471f35c65@msapiro>
References: <20050610172610.GA13992@mail.sunduin.de>
	<PC174020050610113539073471f35c65@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20050611120646.GA25128@mail.sunduin.de>

Hello,

I'm starting to believe something is very broken in my system.

On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 11:35:39AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>     def __connect(self):
>         self.__conn = smtplib.SMTP()
>         syslog('smtp-failure', 'host = %s, port = %s',
>                mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
>         x = self.__conn.connect(mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
>         syslog('smtp-failure', 'connect returns: %s', x)
>         self.__numsessions = mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION

I put this code in SMTPDirect.py, and now I get _no_ more messages at
all to the smtp-failure logfile. Mails are not delivered though (I
get the exim-error mails from Mailer Daemon).
I commented out the syslog lines in SMTPDirect.py and still get no
more messages to the smtp-failure logfile. Only the qrunner logfile
shows activity. It seems to me that my changes to the python
code somehow are not regarded even though I do a mailman-restart
every time I change something. I also restarted syslog.

Any hints left...? :)

Best wishes,
Meike

-- 
Meike Aulbach <sonne at sunduin.net>


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun 11 16:20:11 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 07:20:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SMTPDirect issues (Name or service not known)
In-Reply-To: <20050611120646.GA25128@mail.sunduin.de>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506110720110515bfb4776e@msapiro>

Meike Aulbach wrote:
>
>On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 11:35:39AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>     def __connect(self):
>>         self.__conn = smtplib.SMTP()
>>         syslog('smtp-failure', 'host = %s, port = %s',
>>                mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
>>         x = self.__conn.connect(mm_cfg.SMTPHOST, mm_cfg.SMTPPORT)
>>         syslog('smtp-failure', 'connect returns: %s', x)
>>         self.__numsessions = mm_cfg.SMTP_MAX_SESSIONS_PER_CONNECTION
>
>I put this code in SMTPDirect.py, and now I get _no_ more messages at
>all to the smtp-failure logfile.


Are you still getting the smtp-failure message you originally reported,
namely one like

    Jun 09 22:00:35 2005 (32666) delivery to xxx at zzzz.net failed with
    code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')

If so, all this means is that the error occurs in

         self.__conn = smtplib.SMTP()

before any of the added logging.

>Mails are not delivered though (I
>get the exim-error mails from Mailer Daemon).


I don't think you mentioned this before. Has something changed? Are you
now getting mail to exim and rejected by exim? What does the reject
from exim say?


>I commented out the syslog lines in SMTPDirect.py and still get no
>more messages to the smtp-failure logfile. Only the qrunner logfile
>shows activity. It seems to me that my changes to the python
>code somehow are not regarded even though I do a mailman-restart
>every time I change something.

Do you get anything in Mailman's 'smtp' log?

Does the time stamp change on SMTPDirect.pyc and SMTPDirect.pyo if any?
If not, try just removing them.

>I also restarted syslog.


The 'syslog' calls in SMTPDirect.py call Mailman's own syslog, not the
system one (yet).

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From cjf at cacr.caltech.edu  Sat Jun 11 20:22:44 2005
From: cjf at cacr.caltech.edu (Cassie Ferguson)
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 11:22:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing mailing list name
Message-ID: <10718E67-24BA-4394-B56F-55D1F43EE7D8@cacr.caltech.edu>

Is there a way to change the name of a mailing list using the  
administrator's web interface? If not, is there a relatively simple  
way to do it by logging into my machine?

I'd rather not have to bother with resubscribing people, plus it  
would be nice to move  the archive from the old list into the newly  
named one.

Thanks,

Cassie


From sonne at sunduin.net  Sat Jun 11 20:49:55 2005
From: sonne at sunduin.net (Meike Aulbach)
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 20:49:55 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SMTPDirect issues (Name or service not known)
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200506110720110515bfb4776e@msapiro>
References: <20050611120646.GA25128@mail.sunduin.de>
	<PC1740200506110720110515bfb4776e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20050611184953.GA3029@mail.sunduin.de>

Hello!

On Sat, Jun 11, 2005 at 07:20:11AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Are you still getting the smtp-failure message you originally reported,
> namely one like
> 
>     Jun 09 22:00:35 2005 (32666) delivery to xxx at zzzz.net failed with
>     code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')

No, the error logfiles are completely empty. The only file that still
contains fresh log-messages is qrunner (restart messages).

zzzz:/var/log/mailman# ls -l
[...]
-rw-rw-r--  1 list     list     0 Jun 11 06:25 smtp
-rw-rw-r--  1 list     list     0 Jun 11 06:25 smtp-failure
-rw-rw-r--  1 list     list     0 Jun 10 06:25 smtp-failure.1
-rw-r--r--  1 list     list   880 Jun 11 06:25 smtp-failure.2.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 list     list     0 Jun 10 06:25 smtp.1
-rw-r--r--  1 list     list   599 Jun 11 06:25 smtp.2.gz
[...]
zzzz:/var/log/mailman#

> I don't think you mentioned this before. Has something changed? Are you
> now getting mail to exim and rejected by exim? What does the reject
> from exim say?

The original mail, sent to the mailinglist, bounces. Exim gives 
the mail to mailman, mailman returns an error, so exim returns the
mail to the sender with the message:

  mailinglist at zzzz.net
      local delivery failed

This has been the case all the time, as I understand it mailman fails
because it cannot send the mails to the users of the mailinglist and
returns this to exim.

I also did not get mails from Mailman when I created the mailinglist.

> Does the time stamp change on SMTPDirect.pyc and SMTPDirect.pyo if any?
> If not, try just removing them.

Interesting. These two files were last changed in March 2005!
Here is what I did:

zzzz:/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers# ls -l SMTPDirect.py*
-rw-r--r--  1 root list 16416 Jun 11 13:50 SMTPDirect.py
-rw-r--r--  1 root root  9967 Mar 29 00:55 SMTPDirect.pyc
-rw-r--r--  1 root root  9967 Mar 29 00:55 SMTPDirect.pyo
zzzz:/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers# mv SMTPDirect.py[co] /tmp
zzzz:/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers# /etc/init.d/mailman restart
Restarting mailman queue runner: mailmanShutting down Mailman's master
qrunner
Starting Mailman's master qrunner.
zzzz:/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers# ls -l SMTPDirect.py*
-rw-r--r--  1 root list 16416 Jun 11 13:50 SMTPDirect.py
zzzz:/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers# echo foo | mail
mailinglist at zzzz.net
zzzz:/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers# ls -l SMTPDirect.py*
-rw-r--r--  1 root list 16416 Jun 11 13:50 SMTPDirect.py
zzzz:/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers# ls -l
/var/log/mailman/smtp-failure
-rw-rw-r--  1 list list 0 Jun 11 06:25 /var/log/mailman/smtp-failure
zzzz:/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers# 

The mail to the mailinglist bounces, from /var/log/exim4/mainlog:

005-06-11 20:35:29 1DhApN-0000pz-Nf ** mailinglist at zzzz.net
F=<root at zzzz.net> R=mailman_router T=mailman_transport: Child process
of mailman_transport transport returned 2 from command:
/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman
2005-06-11 20:35:29 cwd=/var/spool/exim4 7 args: /usr/sbin/exim4 -t -oem
-oi -f <> -E1DhApN-0000pz-Nf
2005-06-11 20:35:29 1DhApN-0000q5-Od <= <> R=1DhApN-0000pz-Nf
U=Debian-exim P=local S=1073 T="Mail delivery failed: returning message
to sender" from <> for root at zzzz.net
2005-06-11 20:35:29 1DhApN-0000pz-Nf Completed

What about the .py[co] files? Why aren't they re-created? Is something
wrong with the ownership of the files? I did a "chmod list.list *" in
/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers (and restarted mailman) and it still
fails..

With best wishes,
Meike

-- 
Meike Aulbach <sonne at sunduin.net>


From hmag at ozemail.com.au  Sun Jun 12 00:39:44 2005
From: hmag at ozemail.com.au (Terry Allen)
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 08:39:44 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Insert character to footer
Message-ID: <p06210203bed11818980e@[203.53.37.182]>

Hi all,
	I'm not really having any problems as such with Mailman 
currently, but I do have a minor question that some searching has not 
revealed an easy answer to.
	I wish to insert an ampersand (&) into the footer, but when I 
use plain &, it generates &amp; into the footer. Should I enclose it 
in some way?
	Also, I am running 2.1.5 with the security update. Could 
someone please outline the easiest way to update to 2.1.6?
	I am currently running Mac OSX 10.4.1 if that's of any 
consequence. Many thanks.
-- 

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___________________________________________________________________
hEARd

Postal Address:
	hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd,	Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia
Internet -
	WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com
EMAIL: hmag at ozemail.com.au
Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400
Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400
-----------------------------------------------
Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994
-----------------------------------------------


From john at wa9als.com  Sun Jun 12 01:12:28 2005
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 18:12:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Insert character to footer
References: <p06210203bed11818980e@[203.53.37.182]>
Message-ID: <00d401c56edb$1b832580$0100a8c0@wa9als>

> I wish to insert an ampersand (&) into the footer, but when I
> use plain &, it generates &amp; into the footer. Should I enclose it
> in some way?

1.  Create a plain text file in /bin named "footer".  Make your footer there 
like this:

msg_footer="""______________________________________________________________________
Insert the text you want here & make it real nice.
%(real_name)s mailing list
%real_name)s@%(host_name)s
%web_page_url)slistinfo%cgiext)s/%_internal_name)s
"""

2.  Then run /bin/config_list -i foot listname

That should do it.  But if you change the footer via the web interface, you 
will screw it up.  Change the /bin/footer file instead.

This technique will allow you to use double quotes and other problematic 
characters.  - John




From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun 12 06:39:50 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 21:39:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SMTPDirect issues (Name or service not known)
In-Reply-To: <20050611184953.GA3029@mail.sunduin.de>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506112139500796e20f1e8e@msapiro>

Meike Aulbach wrote:
>
>On Sat, Jun 11, 2005 at 07:20:11AM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Are you still getting the smtp-failure message you originally reported,
>> namely one like
>> 
>>     Jun 09 22:00:35 2005 (32666) delivery to xxx at zzzz.net failed with
>>     code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')
>
>No, the error logfiles are completely empty. The only file that still
>contains fresh log-messages is qrunner (restart messages).
>
>zzzz:/var/log/mailman# ls -l
>[...]
>-rw-rw-r--  1 list     list     0 Jun 11 06:25 smtp
>-rw-rw-r--  1 list     list     0 Jun 11 06:25 smtp-failure
>-rw-rw-r--  1 list     list     0 Jun 10 06:25 smtp-failure.1
>-rw-r--r--  1 list     list   880 Jun 11 06:25 smtp-failure.2.gz
>-rw-rw-r--  1 list     list     0 Jun 10 06:25 smtp.1
>-rw-r--r--  1 list     list   599 Jun 11 06:25 smtp.2.gz
>[...]
>zzzz:/var/log/mailman#
>
>> I don't think you mentioned this before. Has something changed? Are you
>> now getting mail to exim and rejected by exim? What does the reject
>> from exim say?
>
>The original mail, sent to the mailinglist, bounces. Exim gives 
>the mail to mailman, mailman returns an error, so exim returns the
>mail to the sender with the message:
>
>  mailinglist at zzzz.net
>      local delivery failed
>
>This has been the case all the time, as I understand it mailman fails
>because it cannot send the mails to the users of the mailinglist and
>returns this to exim.


Your understanding is incorrect. The only mystery here is why you ever
had a message in smtp-failure. The original post is not getting to
Mailman at all. If the only problem were in SMTP delivery, the poster
would not get a bounce. There would be the smtp-failure or the bounces
would go to listname-bounces.


>I also did not get mails from Mailman when I created the mailinglist.


There can be lots of reasons for this. This may have been the source of
the smtp-failure log entry.


>> Does the time stamp change on SMTPDirect.pyc and SMTPDirect.pyo if any?
>> If not, try just removing them.
>
>Interesting. These two files were last changed in March 2005!
>Here is what I did:
>
>zzzz:/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers# ls -l SMTPDirect.py*
>-rw-r--r--  1 root list 16416 Jun 11 13:50 SMTPDirect.py
>-rw-r--r--  1 root root  9967 Mar 29 00:55 SMTPDirect.pyc
>-rw-r--r--  1 root root  9967 Mar 29 00:55 SMTPDirect.pyo
>zzzz:/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers# mv SMTPDirect.py[co] /tmp
>zzzz:/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers# /etc/init.d/mailman restart
>Restarting mailman queue runner: mailmanShutting down Mailman's master
>qrunner
>Starting Mailman's master qrunner.
>zzzz:/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers# ls -l SMTPDirect.py*
>-rw-r--r--  1 root list 16416 Jun 11 13:50 SMTPDirect.py
>zzzz:/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers# echo foo | mail
>mailinglist at zzzz.net
>zzzz:/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers# ls -l SMTPDirect.py*
>-rw-r--r--  1 root list 16416 Jun 11 13:50 SMTPDirect.py
>zzzz:/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers# ls -l
>/var/log/mailman/smtp-failure
>-rw-rw-r--  1 list list 0 Jun 11 06:25 /var/log/mailman/smtp-failure
>zzzz:/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers# 
>
>The mail to the mailinglist bounces, from /var/log/exim4/mainlog:
>
>005-06-11 20:35:29 1DhApN-0000pz-Nf ** mailinglist at zzzz.net
>F=<root at zzzz.net> R=mailman_router T=mailman_transport: Child process
>of mailman_transport transport returned 2 from command:
>/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman
>2005-06-11 20:35:29 cwd=/var/spool/exim4 7 args: /usr/sbin/exim4 -t -oem
>-oi -f <> -E1DhApN-0000pz-Nf
>2005-06-11 20:35:29 1DhApN-0000q5-Od <= <> R=1DhApN-0000pz-Nf
>U=Debian-exim P=local S=1073 T="Mail delivery failed: returning message
>to sender" from <> for root at zzzz.net
>2005-06-11 20:35:29 1DhApN-0000pz-Nf Completed


I didn't notice the '2' return code in your original post. I believed
you when you said "mails are correctly delivered to mailman by exim:".
The return code of '2' is a group mismatch error. Does exim give more
information in the returned 'delivery failure' notice? See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp

Usually, the 'delivery failure' notice will say what group the wrapper
expected to be run as and what group it was run as. The expected group
is normally set by configure via the --with-mail-gid option - see
http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node7.html


>What about the .py[co] files? Why aren't they re-created? Is something
>wrong with the ownership of the files? I did a "chmod list.list *" in
>/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers (and restarted mailman) and it still
>fails..

I don't understand why SMTPDirect.pyc is not recreated. It should be
created when OutgoingRunner.py is initialized. It does

        modname = 'Mailman.Handlers.' + mm_cfg.DELIVERY_MODULE
        mod = __import__(modname)

as part of its initialization. Assuming mm_cfg.DELIVERY_MODULE is
'SMTPDirect', this will import it which should cause Python to
recompile it. However, the reason you aren't getting any log messages
is that there isn't any outgoing message, so the process in
SMTPDirect.py is never done.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun 12 07:21:09 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2005 22:21:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing mailing list name
In-Reply-To: <10718E67-24BA-4394-B56F-55D1F43EE7D8@cacr.caltech.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402005061122210903435514b4c0@msapiro>

Cassie Ferguson wrote:

>Is there a way to change the name of a mailing list using the  
>administrator's web interface?

No

>If not, is there a relatively simple  
>way to do it by logging into my machine?

It can be done, but it's not that simple.

You have to rename the lists/listname/ directory. You have to change
the lists real_name and _internal_name attributes. You have to change
the MTA aliases for the list if your MTA uses them.

You have to rename archives/private/listname/,
archives/private/listname.mbox/ and
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox.

If the list has public archives you have to change the name and target
of the archives/public/listname symlink.

There will be some links in the archive to the old listinfo page. To
fix these, you can use "bin/arch --wipe newlistname" to recreate the
list's archive.

I *think* that would do it, but all the usual disclaimers apply.

It might be easier to just use bin/config_list to dump the
configuration to a file and bin/listmembers to list the digest and
non-digest members, and create a new list, configure it with
bin/config_list and mass subscribe the regular and digest members, but
this will not preserve all member options and doesn't address the
archive.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From carbonnb at sympatico.ca  Sun Jun 12 15:36:57 2005
From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell)
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 09:36:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] XHTML Compliant Web UI - 2.1.6 Patch
Message-ID: <BAYC1-PASMTP03C3CC2E05E741638586C4AEF10@cez.ice>

I have just uploaded an updated patch that will make the web UI for 
MM 2.1.6 XHTML 1.0 strict compliant. This patch allows for some CSS 
formatting as well.

I have tried to make all the pages compliant, but I may have missed
some combinations of pages and options, so if you find some that
aren't compliant, please let me know which page isn't compliant and
under which circumstances it's not.

It it patch 1160353 in the Sourceforge Mailman patch repository.
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1160353&group
_id=103&atid=300103

If anyone has any feedback on it, I'd love to hear it,since this is 
my first attempt at creating a patch.

-- 
Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca
The man who claims to be the boss in his own home will lie about 
other things as well.




From sonne at sunduin.net  Sun Jun 12 17:01:53 2005
From: sonne at sunduin.net (sonne at sunduin.net)
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 17:01:53 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SMTPDirect issues (Name or service not known)
 (SOLVED)
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200506112139500796e20f1e8e@msapiro>
References: <20050611184953.GA3029@mail.sunduin.de>
	<PC1740200506112139500796e20f1e8e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1515.212.95.106.154.1118588513.squirrel@secure.sunduin.net>

Hello!

> I didn't notice the '2' return code in your original post. I believed
> you when you said "mails are correctly delivered to mailman by exim:".
> The return code of '2' is a group mismatch error. Does exim give more
> information in the returned 'delivery failure' notice? See
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp

That was it. I set MAILMAN_USER and MAILMAN_GROUP in exim and now
everything works.. Thank you very much! Sorry about the misleading
information I gave. The "name or service not known" messages still were
weird. They didn't occur for the initialization mails only, but also for
every mail I tried to send to the mailinglist.. (until yesterday), thats
why I thought the mail to the mailinglist has reached mailman and mailman
fails in distributing them to the mailinglist-subscribers..

But thanks again for the assistance! :)

Best wishes,
Meike

-- 
Meike Aulbach <sonne at sunduin.net>



From jwblist at olympus.net  Sun Jun 12 21:59:48 2005
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 12:59:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SMTPDirect issues (Name or service not known)
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200506112139500796e20f1e8e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BED1E244.6010%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 6/11/05 9:39 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> I don't understand why SMTPDirect.pyc is not recreated. It should be
> created when OutgoingRunner.py is initialized. It does

The typical--of Python generally--reason is that the process which does the
import doesn't have permissions (on the directory) to create or replace the
.pyc file.

  --John




From hmag at ozemail.com.au  Mon Jun 13 00:03:00 2005
From: hmag at ozemail.com.au (Terry Allen)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:03:00 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Insert character to footer
Message-ID: <p06210204bed25fcf43de@[203.53.37.182]>

>>  I wish to insert an ampersand (&) into the footer, but >>when I
>>  use plain &, it generates &amp; into the footer. Should I >>enclose it
>>  in some way?

>1.  Create a plain text file in /bin named "footer".  Make >your footer there
>like this:

>msg_footer="""______________________________________________________________________
>Insert the text you want here & make it real nice.
>%(real_name)s mailing list
>%real_name)s@%(host_name)s
>%web_page_url)slistinfo%cgiext)s/%_internal_name)s
>"""

>2.  Then run /bin/config_list -i foot listname

>That should do it.  But if you change the footer via the >web interface, you
>will screw it up.  Change the /bin/footer file instead.

>This technique will allow you to use double quotes and >other problematic
>characters.  - John

Hi again,
	Thanks for the feedback. I did change the footer using the 
web interface, but it didn't screw up anything except add the &amp; 
into the footer.
	Out of interest, if I use the method you describe above, does 
it alter any other lists, or only the one you apply to the list you 
issue the command on?
	I guess the other minor question I have is - what if I then 
wish to apply other footers to other lists?
	Should your command actually read:

/bin/config_list -i footer listname

instead of :

/bin/config_list -i foot listname

	I'm only guessing that the command needs the name of the file 
- in which case I'd name the file 'listname_footer' or something 
similar. Thanks again for your help.
-- 

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___________________________________________________________________
hEARd

Postal Address:
	hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd,	Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia
Internet -
	WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com
EMAIL: hmag at ozemail.com.au
Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400
Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400
-----------------------------------------------
Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994
-----------------------------------------------


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 13 00:40:15 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 15:40:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Insert character to footer
In-Reply-To: <p06210204bed25fcf43de@[203.53.37.182]>
Message-ID: <PC17402005061215401509681fb3e817@msapiro>

Terry Allen wrote in reply to John Flemming:

>>>  I wish to insert an ampersand (&) into the footer, but >>when I
>>>  use plain &, it generates &amp; into the footer. Should I >>enclose it
>>>  in some way?
>
>>1.  Create a plain text file in /bin named "footer".  Make >your footer there
>>like this:
>
>>msg_footer="""______________________________________________________________________
>>Insert the text you want here & make it real nice.
>>%(real_name)s mailing list
>>%real_name)s@%(host_name)s
>>%web_page_url)slistinfo%cgiext)s/%_internal_name)s
>>"""
>
>>2.  Then run /bin/config_list -i foot listname
>
>>That should do it.  But if you change the footer via the >web interface, you
>>will screw it up.  Change the /bin/footer file instead.
>
>>This technique will allow you to use double quotes and >other problematic
>>characters.  - John
>
>Hi again,
>	Thanks for the feedback. I did change the footer using the 
>web interface, but it didn't screw up anything except add the &amp; 
>into the footer.


By "screw it up" John only meant that any specials in the footer such
as &, <, > and " would be changed back to the escaped versions &amp;,
&lt;, &gt; and &quot;.

This escaping of these special characters is done to prevent Cross Site
Scripting (XSS) attacks against your web site and applies to almost
every text item entered via the admin interface.


>	Out of interest, if I use the method you describe above, does 
>it alter any other lists, or only the one you apply to the list you 
>issue the command on?


Only the one. See "bin/config_list --help"


>	I guess the other minor question I have is - what if I then 
>wish to apply other footers to other lists?

If it's the same footer, just give the bin/config_list once for each
listname. If the footers are different, you need to make a different
file to be used as input to bin/config_list.

Once the list has been updated by bin/config_list, you don't need to
keep the input file any more, but it might be convenient to do so in
case the footer gets munged via the web interface and you need to fix
it.


>	Should your command actually read:
>
>/bin/config_list -i footer listname
>
>instead of :
>
>/bin/config_list -i foot listname
>
>	I'm only guessing that the command needs the name of the file 
>- in which case I'd name the file 'listname_footer' or something 
>similar. Thanks again for your help.


You are correct here. The name in the command should be the name of the
file which can be any name you want.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mengland at mengland.net  Mon Jun 13 05:41:06 2005
From: mengland at mengland.net (Matt England)
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 22:41:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Plans to support 2 lists w/ same name in diff
	domains?
In-Reply-To: <PC174020050515174446025072bb30e8@msapiro>
References: <cbd337c05051109326c57c2cb@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC174020050515174446025072bb30e8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20050612223300.04c13ff8@127.0.0.1>

Hello,

When will Mailman natively (ie, without patches) support 2 lists with the 
same name in different domains?

I am presuming that the virtualhosts feature does not support this today; 
if it does, can someone please reply to this thread to let me (us) know?

Until then, it looks like the best answer is to run separate mailman 
installs for every independent, virtualhost domain.  Is this a fair analysis?

I'm currently running 2.1.6rc4.

-Matt


At 5/15/2005 07:44 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>If you want two have two distinct lists with the same name in different
>domains see
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.047.htp
>but be aware that the patches mentioned there don't work well -
>running multiple Mailman copies works better.
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 13 06:10:56 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 21:10:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Plans to support 2 lists w/ same name in
	diffdomains?
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20050612223300.04c13ff8@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <PC174020050612211056084339a8b783@msapiro>

Matt England wrote:
>
>When will Mailman natively (ie, without patches) support 2 lists with the 
>same name in different domains?

It's on the ToDo list (http://www.list.org/todo.html), but unless
someone comes up with a really good implementation in the mean time,
it probably won't happen before Mailman 3.

>I am presuming that the virtualhosts feature does not support this today; 
>if it does, can someone please reply to this thread to let me (us) know?


You are correct. As shipped, there is only one global name space for
list names regardless of virtual host. The virtual hosts capability
supports things like only showing the lists for a given host on that
host's listinfo page and allowing editing of the various templates on
a 'per virtual host' basis, but the list names still have to be unique
sitewide.


>Until then, it looks like the best answer is to run separate mailman 
>installs for every independent, virtualhost domain.  Is this a fair analysis?


If it is important to allow the same list name in two domains, then
yes, I think it is a fair analysis. The various patches for working
around this limitation actually implement an 'invisible' list name
which has the virtual host name appended to the list name. This should
be a viable solution, but the number of complaints from people who've
tried the patches leads me to think that the patches are not complete
enough for general use.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mengland at mengland.net  Mon Jun 13 06:25:39 2005
From: mengland at mengland.net (Matt England)
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 23:25:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Plans to support 2 lists w/ same name in
 diffdomains?
In-Reply-To: <PC174020050612211056084339a8b783@msapiro>
References: <6.1.2.0.2.20050612223300.04c13ff8@127.0.0.1>
	<PC174020050612211056084339a8b783@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20050612232249.04d81910@127.0.0.1>


Ok.  Thanks for the quick response.

Can anyone provide recommendations for configuring the 'mailman' email 
list...that spans the virtual domains?  Should one alias the virtual domain 
'mailman' list somehow to the "global" mailman list?

-Matt


At 6/12/2005 11:10 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>Matt England wrote:
> >
> >When will Mailman natively (ie, without patches) support 2 lists with the
> >same name in different domains?
>
>It's on the ToDo list (http://www.list.org/todo.html), but unless
>someone comes up with a really good implementation in the mean time,
>it probably won't happen before Mailman 3.
>
> >I am presuming that the virtualhosts feature does not support this today;
> >if it does, can someone please reply to this thread to let me (us) know?
>
>
>You are correct. As shipped, there is only one global name space for
>list names regardless of virtual host. The virtual hosts capability
>supports things like only showing the lists for a given host on that
>host's listinfo page and allowing editing of the various templates on
>a 'per virtual host' basis, but the list names still have to be unique
>sitewide.
>
>
> >Until then, it looks like the best answer is to run separate mailman
> >installs for every independent, virtualhost domain.  Is this a fair 
> analysis?
>
>
>If it is important to allow the same list name in two domains, then
>yes, I think it is a fair analysis. The various patches for working
>around this limitation actually implement an 'invisible' list name
>which has the virtual host name appended to the list name. This should
>be a viable solution, but the number of complaints from people who've
>tried the patches leads me to think that the patches are not complete
>enough for general use.
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe: 
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mengland%40mengland.net
>
>Security Policy: 
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 13 07:19:25 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2005 22:19:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Plans to support 2 lists w/ same name
	indiffdomains?
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20050612232249.04d81910@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506122219250187528a66b4@msapiro>

Matt England wrote:
>
>Can anyone provide recommendations for configuring the 'mailman' email 
>list...that spans the virtual domains?  Should one alias the virtual domain 
>'mailman' list somehow to the "global" mailman list?

I assume here you're talking about a single, global Mailman serving all
virtual hosts.

You have to have a site 'mailman' list, and it is just one list for the
whole site. The list is normally in the
DEFAULT_URL_HOST/DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST domain with aliases in that
domain. However, on the overview listinfo page and admin page for
other domains, there is a reference to the mailman at that.virtual.domain
list. For this reason, I think it is best if each domain has aliases
for at least the posting address for the site list, and the mailman
administrator for each domain should be subscribed to the site list.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From cycling at axelrod.plus.com  Mon Jun 13 11:10:02 2005
From: cycling at axelrod.plus.com (Andy Heath)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 10:10:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.1.5 fedora core 3 prevent mailbody problem
Message-ID: <42AD4D6A.2060501@axelrod.plus.com>

Using 2.1.5 on fedora cors 3.  Run an old
mailman for years but just setting this
one up afresh.

Two probs - some regexes and preventing
spams going to moderators while holding
them back:

1. regex matching with some regex'es
causes mailman to loop trying to send
mail to the list-owner and failing.

e.g.
this seems ok

subject:.*spam

but this one causes looping

subject:.*[SPAM].*

Since I give control of these regex'es to
my other admins this is a problem.
Sounds like a python problem - is there
some way I can fix it, such as using some
specific python version and doing so without a
complete rebuild (I find fedora hard work
building for, its approaches are so
different)?

2. Privacy/Spam filters.

The snag I have is this ...
If I hold spam back the mail that goes to
admins/moderators to request their action
contains a copy of the spam email.
With one address I use for moderation I never
see this mail as its filtered out at the
gate without my control and at another it
naturally gets classified as spam itself
and so goes in the spam box (this is
a mozilla client - I can mark these
as non-spam but doing so is not really
desirable because of their content
  - doing so may encourage missed positives).

So there is needed an option to NOT send
a copy of the body of the mail, just a
call to action instead I think.
Of course I could discard spam but this
is a new installation and I want to see
some reliability in classification first
(the other parts are all new too).

andy


From mengland at mengland.net  Mon Jun 13 15:01:06 2005
From: mengland at mengland.net (Matt England)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:01:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Update qmail-to-mailman.py for virtual domain
	support?
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20050613080007.04f25380@127.0.0.1>


 From 
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1219686&group_id=103&atid=100103 
:

I find that if I want to support qmail-to-mailman.py for
multiple virtual domains I must add a:

local = re.sub("^lists.newdomain.tld-","",local)

line for every virtual domain.

Could qmail-to-mailman.py be changed to support all
virtual domains with the same general code without
manual changes?

-Matt



From mengland at mengland.net  Mon Jun 13 15:08:23 2005
From: mengland at mengland.net (Matt England)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:08:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Plans to support 2 lists w/ same name
 indiffdomains?
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200506122219250187528a66b4@msapiro>
References: <6.1.2.0.2.20050612232249.04d81910@127.0.0.1>
	<PC1740200506122219250187528a66b4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20050613080206.04d526d0@127.0.0.1>

At 6/13/2005 12:19 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>Matt England wrote:
> >
> >Can anyone provide recommendations for configuring the 'mailman' email
> >list...that spans the virtual domains?  Should one alias the virtual domain
> >'mailman' list somehow to the "global" mailman list?
>
>I assume here you're talking about a single, global Mailman serving all
>virtual hosts.

Yes.

>You have to have a site 'mailman' list, and it is just one list for the
>whole site. The list is normally in the
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST/DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST domain with aliases in that
>domain. However, on the overview listinfo page and admin page for
>other domains, there is a reference to the mailman at that.virtual.domain
>list. For this reason, I think it is best if each domain has aliases
>for at least the posting address for the site list, and the mailman
>administrator for each domain should be subscribed to the site list.

I think I get the high-level concept here, but I'm fuzzy on some things, 
including how to implement this.

Is this how one can/should it?  In this context:

         Default URL and email host domain = lists.default.tld
         Virtual URL and email host domain = lists.virtual.tld
         Setup mailman at lists.default.tld as usual

...how would I route and web-interface mailman at lists.virtual.tld to 
mailman at lists.default.tld (assuming this what I should do)?  I'm not yet 
sure exactly how to email alias/route this (although I suspect I can 
probably do this via my qmail or postfix setup), but I really have little 
idea about how to make the user/admin web interface correlate these 2 things.

I will also have multiple virtual domains (call them lists.virtual2.tld, etc).

Sorry if this is an ignorant question.  Could someone possibly step me 
through the details of this configuration?

I'm hoping to do this for my "hacky" way to support virtual domains right 
now in lieu of building a mailman install for every domain (and dealing 
with the shared mailing list namespace across all domains).

-Matt



From mengland at mengland.net  Mon Jun 13 16:15:21 2005
From: mengland at mengland.net (Matt England)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:15:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Domains: Mailman 3 timeline? Cpanel changes?
In-Reply-To: <PC174020050612211056084339a8b783@msapiro>
References: <6.1.2.0.2.20050612223300.04c13ff8@127.0.0.1>
	<PC174020050612211056084339a8b783@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20050613090805.04e0fa78@127.0.0.1>



At 6/12/2005 11:10 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>[...] it [full Virtual Domain support] probably won't happen before Mailman 3.

I know open-source projects usually do no react well to this question, but 
I'll try anyway:

Is there a rough timeline for Mailman 3?  eg, which "order of magnitude" 
shall one use: months or years?  Another way to put it: is the Mailman 3 
design architecture outlined? done? documented?  still a twinkle in it's 
daddy's eye?

Alternatively, has anyone been asking the Cpanel people about what changes 
they made to Mailman to support full Virtual Domains (ie, email lists with 
same name on 2 diff domains via the same Mailman install binary)?  Could 
these sorts of changes possibly make it into a pre-3 release?

For what it's worth:  Mailman is the only remaining application on my web 
server system(s) that does not easily allow me to support a true 
virtual-domain server (because of the list namespace sharing/pollution 
across domains).  Namely, Apache and qmail support this stuff well (as well 
the necessary web apps sitting on Apache).  Mailman is the only one left in 
my collection of tools that I'm trying to "virtualize."

-Matt


At 6/12/2005 11:10 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>Matt England wrote:
> >
> >When will Mailman natively (ie, without patches) support 2 lists with the
> >same name in different domains?
>
>It's on the ToDo list (http://www.list.org/todo.html), but unless
>someone comes up with a really good implementation in the mean time,
>it probably won't happen before Mailman 3.
>
> >I am presuming that the virtualhosts feature does not support this today;
> >if it does, can someone please reply to this thread to let me (us) know?
>
>
>You are correct. As shipped, there is only one global name space for
>list names regardless of virtual host. The virtual hosts capability
>supports things like only showing the lists for a given host on that
>host's listinfo page and allowing editing of the various templates on
>a 'per virtual host' basis, but the list names still have to be unique
>sitewide.
>
>
> >Until then, it looks like the best answer is to run separate mailman
> >installs for every independent, virtualhost domain.  Is this a fair 
> analysis?
>
>
>If it is important to allow the same list name in two domains, then
>yes, I think it is a fair analysis. The various patches for working
>around this limitation actually implement an 'invisible' list name
>which has the virtual host name appended to the list name. This should
>be a viable solution, but the number of complaints from people who've
>tried the patches leads me to think that the patches are not complete
>enough for general use.
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe: 
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mengland%40mengland.net
>
>Security Policy: 
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 13 16:35:03 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 07:35:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Plans to support 2 lists w/ same
	nameindiffdomains?
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20050613080206.04d526d0@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506130735030484cf58c467@msapiro>

Matt England wrote:
>
>I think I get the high-level concept here, but I'm fuzzy on some things, 
>including how to implement this.
>
>Is this how one can/should it?  In this context:
>
>         Default URL and email host domain = lists.default.tld
>         Virtual URL and email host domain = lists.virtual.tld
>         Setup mailman at lists.default.tld as usual

Yes. This is what you do. You could just stop here, but there is a
small problem. Assume for discussion that the web hosts for these
domains are www.default.tld and www.virtual.tld, etc. The problem is
that the page at http:/www.virtual.tld/mailman/listinfo will say

If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact
mailman at lists.virtual.tld.

and likewise the page at http:/www.virtual.tld/mailman/admin will say

(Send questions and comments to mailman at lists.virtual.tld.)

Now your choices are:

1) Ignore this (not a good idea if mail to those addresses doesn't work)

2) Change get_site_email in Mailman/Utils.py to always use
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST

3) Make the above address(es) work.

>...how would I route and web-interface mailman at lists.virtual.tld to 
>mailman at lists.default.tld (assuming this what I should do)?  I'm not yet 
>sure exactly how to email alias/route this (although I suspect I can 
>probably do this via my qmail or postfix setup), but I really have little 
>idea about how to make the user/admin web interface correlate these 2 things.

This question relates to choice 3. I don't know the answer in your
specific case. It may be that you don't have to do anything. If your
mail aliases are global so that for example, an alias like

mailman:   "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"

(or whatever your equivalent is) applies to all mail to
mailman at lists.*.tld regardless of what * is, then you are done. OTOH
if aliases are per virtual domain, then you need an alias like the
above (and maybe the other mailman-* ones too) for each domain.

The 'pipe' part of the alias is the same in all cases except for the
'post' part which differs for the mailman-* addresses. What you have
to ensure is that all mail for the 'mailman' address regardless of
domain gets piped to '/var/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman' (or
whatever the correct path is) and similarly for the other mailman-*
addresses.

I note from another post that you are using qmail-to-mailman.py. I
don't know what that does, but you'll have to translate the above into
that environment.


>I will also have multiple virtual domains (call them lists.virtual2.tld, etc).

This shouldn't be a problem.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 13 16:47:22 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 07:47:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Domains: Mailman 3 timeline? Cpanel
	changes?
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20050613090805.04e0fa78@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <PC17402005061307472205155611c779@msapiro>

Matt England wrote:
>
>Alternatively, has anyone been asking the Cpanel people about what changes 
>they made to Mailman to support full Virtual Domains (ie, email lists with 
>same name on 2 diff domains via the same Mailman install binary)?  Could 
>these sorts of changes possibly make it into a pre-3 release?

See the whole thread that starts at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-January/041742.html

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mengland at mengland.net  Mon Jun 13 16:55:32 2005
From: mengland at mengland.net (Matt England)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:55:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual Domains: Mailman 3 timeline? Cpanel
 changes?
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005061307472205155611c779@msapiro>
References: <6.1.2.0.2.20050613090805.04e0fa78@127.0.0.1>
	<PC17402005061307472205155611c779@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20050613095315.04ea3f28@127.0.0.1>


>See the whole thread that starts at
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-January/041742.html

Good info, thanks.

In addition:  might there be means to contribute money to this 
effort?  (I'm thinking around $100 for now.)

I'm also interested to know how popular such a virtual-domain feature 
addition (to support separate list namespaces for each domain) might be.  I 
encourage anyone following along to chime in on this email thread with 
their "vote" for this feature.

-Matt  



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 13 16:59:16 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 07:59:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.1.5 fedora core 3 prevent mailbody problem
In-Reply-To: <42AD4D6A.2060501@axelrod.plus.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005061307591606095c392cb1@msapiro>

Andy Heath wrote:
>
>1. regex matching with some regex'es
>causes mailman to loop trying to send
>mail to the list-owner and failing.
>
>e.g.
>this seems ok
>
>subject:.*spam
>
>but this one causes looping
>
>subject:.*[SPAM].*

The upper/lower case is immaterial as thes matches ale all
'ignorecase', but you don't want the above regexp in any case since
[SPAM] is a character set so the regexp matches anything with an 's',
'p', 'a' or 'm' in the subject.

I don't know what would cause the looping, but you want at least

subject:.*\[spam\].*

as the regexp.

What are the reasons (error log, smtp-failure log ?) for the failure in
the notification 'loop'?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From cycling at axelrod.plus.com  Mon Jun 13 17:43:20 2005
From: cycling at axelrod.plus.com (Andy Heath)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 16:43:20 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.1.5 fedora core 3 prevent mailbody problem
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005061307591606095c392cb1@msapiro>
References: <PC17402005061307591606095c392cb1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <42ADA998.2060001@axelrod.plus.com>


>>subject:.*[SPAM].*
> 
> 
> The upper/lower case is immaterial as thes matches ale all
> 'ignorecase', but you don't want the above regexp in any case since
> [SPAM] is a character set so the regexp matches anything with an 's',
> 'p', 'a' or 'm' in the subject.
> 
> I don't know what would cause the looping, but you want at least
> 
> subject:.*\[spam\].*

silly me, I should (and do) know that.  But still it shouldn't loop
as you say (its a legal RE without the escaping).

> 
> as the regexp.
> 
> What are the reasons (error log, smtp-failure log ?) for the failure in
> the notification 'loop'?

they don't show as fails at all.  What appears to happen is
mailman keeps trying to send the mail and succeeding
but it keeps doing it again and again.  Meanwhile no
mail leaves, it just sits in the spool dir.
The data directory fills up with .pck files and directories in
the spool dir fill up with mail files.  I was testing with
only one member, one administrator and one or two mails
so the looping was obvious.  Some boundary condition is
failing in the code.

I decided I would inform the other admins about
this flakeyness and work around it but would it be useful
if I set up the situation again and
posted the log file contents ? Having been happy with
mailman for years this one surprised me (you come
to depend on its reliability).

The other problem concerns me more because I can't find
a good way around it that triggers action from moderators.

bogey


> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 
> 


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 13 18:45:34 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:45:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.1.5 fedora core 3 prevent mailbody problem
In-Reply-To: <42ADA998.2060001@axelrod.plus.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506130945340500ef19b1d6@msapiro>

Andy Heath wrote:
>
>they don't show as fails at all.  What appears to happen is
>mailman keeps trying to send the mail and succeeding
>but it keeps doing it again and again.  Meanwhile no
>mail leaves, it just sits in the spool dir.

What spool directory? The MTA's?


>The data directory fills up with .pck files and directories in
>the spool dir fill up with mail files.  I was testing with
>only one member, one administrator and one or two mails
>so the looping was obvious.  Some boundary condition is
>failing in the code.


What is happening is the message is detected as spam and a notise is
sent to the listname-owner address with subject "%(listname)s post
from %(sender)s requires approval" with the appropriate substitutions
for %(listname)s and %(sender)s.

Since this subject matches .*[spam].*, the message to the owner is
identified as spam and the whole thing goes again.

The solution is to not use regexps which will match the subject of the
owner notification or, since this is not completely under your
control, remove 'SpamDetect' from OWNER_PIPELINE, i.e. put

# This is the pipeline which messages sent to the -owner address go
through
OWNER_PIPELINE = [
#   'SpamDetect',
    'Replybot',
    'OwnerRecips',
    'ToOutgoing',
    ]

im mm_cfg.py.


As far as not including the message body in the notice because of its
getting caught in external to Mailman spam filters is concerned, short
of hacking the code or not sending the immediate notifications,
there's not much you can do. You can submit an RFE at
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=350103

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From rgrempel at gmail.com  Mon Jun 13 19:35:26 2005
From: rgrempel at gmail.com (Ryan Rempel)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:35:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages silently dropped after being approved
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200506081100160062e448158e@msapiro>
References: <fb5ec423050607153523b9d073@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1740200506081100160062e448158e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <fb5ec4230506131035232a049@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/8/05, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Ryan Rempel wrote:
> 
>> I am having a problem with messages sometimes being silently dropped
>> after being approved.
> 
> I don't know if this is happening in your case, but one way this can
> happen is if content filtering discards the message after it is
> approved. Content filtering is not normally applied until after
> moderation and other holds are checked, so an approved post can still
> have all its content removed by content filtering and then be handled
> according to filter_action.

It turned out that it was entirely my fault -- I had made some
modifications to LDAPMemberships.py, and hadn't thought things through
quite well enough -- there were some circumstances in which it would
report that the mailing list had no members, in which case (of course)
no one would get the mail! What confused me a little was that the
problem didn't affect the web interface, so the member list always
seemed correct.

So, it was a purely local phenomenon :-)


From cycling at axelrod.plus.com  Mon Jun 13 19:37:15 2005
From: cycling at axelrod.plus.com (Andy Heath)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 18:37:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.1.5 fedora core 3 prevent mailbody problem
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200506130945340500ef19b1d6@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200506130945340500ef19b1d6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <42ADC44B.4070400@axelrod.plus.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Andy Heath wrote:
> 
>>they don't show as fails at all.  What appears to happen is
>>mailman keeps trying to send the mail and succeeding
>>but it keeps doing it again and again.  Meanwhile no
>>mail leaves, it just sits in the spool dir.
> 
> 
> What spool directory? The MTA's?

No.  Fedora has its own ideas about where the components
of mailman should live and its broken up all over and the
code a tiny bit modified to facilitate that - some
in /usr/lib, some in /var/lib, some in /var/spool, some
in /etc.  Its a pain to work with.

In /var/spool there is a mailman directory with these sub directories.
I presumed they were normally in the /home/mailman

archive  bounces  commands  in  news  out  retry  shunt  virgin

They are not the usual sendmail queues, its before that
stage.

> 
>>The data directory fills up with .pck files and directories in
>>the spool dir fill up with mail files.  I was testing with
>>only one member, one administrator and one or two mails
>>so the looping was obvious.  Some boundary condition is
>>failing in the code.
> 
> 
> 
> What is happening is the message is detected as spam and a notise is
> sent to the listname-owner address with subject "%(listname)s post
> from %(sender)s requires approval" with the appropriate substitutions
> for %(listname)s and %(sender)s.
> 
> Since this subject matches .*[spam].*, the message to the owner is
> identified as spam and the whole thing goes again.

Not sure I understand you.  It doesn't get as far as the usual
sendmail queues.  How does the subject get parsed twice ?

> 
> The solution is to not use regexps which will match the subject of the
> owner notification or, since this is not completely under your
> control, remove 'SpamDetect' from OWNER_PIPELINE, i.e. put
> 
> # This is the pipeline which messages sent to the -owner address go
> through
> OWNER_PIPELINE = [
> #   'SpamDetect',
>     'Replybot',
>     'OwnerRecips',
>     'ToOutgoing',
>     ]
> 
> im mm_cfg.py.
> 
> 
> As far as not including the message body in the notice because of its
> getting caught in external to Mailman spam filters is concerned, short
> of hacking the code or not sending the immediate notifications,
> there's not much you can do. You can submit an RFE at
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=350103

Thanks I will.  The madness is that having recieved spam
the last sensible thing to do is post it out again :-).

Cheers

andy
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 
> 


-- 
andy
___________________
Andy Heath
a.k.heath at shu.ac.uk


From middlelord at hotmail.com  Mon Jun 13 19:44:05 2005
From: middlelord at hotmail.com (SAA)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:44:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] admin links giving localhost.localdomain so links
	not working
Message-ID: <BAY101-DAV6B42AD1114D3740084A7ED7F00@phx.gbl>

 

 

admin links giving localhost.localdomain so links not working. everything
else works except for this. Normal emails to lists and list owners are fine
but when it goes to the mailman owner of the whole server it shows this link
in the bottom. Here is a example

As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the following
mailing list posting:

 

    List:    Mailman at listserver.mdpls.net

    From:    alvarinos at mdpls.org

    Subject: ff

    Reason:  Post by non-member to a members-only list

 

At your convenience, visit:

 

    http://localhost.localdomain/mailman/admindb/mailman

        

to approve or deny the request.

 

Thank you please help me :-)

 

 

 

--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.9 - Release Date: 6/11/2005
  



From cycling at axelrod.plus.com  Mon Jun 13 19:54:42 2005
From: cycling at axelrod.plus.com (Andy Heath)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 18:54:42 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.1.5 fedora core 3 prevent mailbody problem
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200506130945340500ef19b1d6@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200506130945340500ef19b1d6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <42ADC862.3030400@axelrod.plus.com>

Mark,

>> Since this subject matches .*[spam].*, the message to the owner is
>> identified as spam and the whole thing goes again.

 > Not sure I understand you.  It doesn't get as far as the usual
 > sendmail queues.  How does the subject get parsed twice ?

> 
> The solution is to not use regexps which will match the subject of the
> owner notification or, since this is not completely under your
> control, remove 'SpamDetect' from OWNER_PIPELINE, i.e. put
> 
> # This is the pipeline which messages sent to the -owner address go
> through
> OWNER_PIPELINE = [
> #   'SpamDetect',
>     'Replybot',
>     'OwnerRecips',
>     'ToOutgoing',
>     ]
> 
> im mm_cfg.py.

so how does "subject:.*[SPAM}.*" (admitredly meaning s or p etc) trigger 
the behaviour but "subject.*spam" not trigger it ?

Also - where is this code normally ? I presume SpamDetect just
calls the rules defined in the spam section, nothing
cleverer.  And if I do decide to separate owners and
moderators I may need to do the same trick for moderators -
where is that code ? (sorry but with directories all over
the place its horrible finding and grepping.) - presume
there's a MODERATOR_PIPELINE or similar.

andy


From tracey at fairhousing.com  Mon Jun 13 20:17:22 2005
From: tracey at fairhousing.com (Tracey McCartney)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:17:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] External membership sources
Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20050613131311.0257bdc8@mail.fairhousing.com>

The Mailman home page thanks control.com for their sponsorship of, among 
other things, "external membership sources" in the new version of Mailman.

Is this "external membership sources" feature documented somewhere yet, and 
can it be implemented by list administrators, or is it available only to 
the folks who have access to the server Mailman's running on?  Our Mailman 
lists run in a shared hosting environment.  I'd love to be able to run 
Mailman from a MySql database so that I don't have to keep up with 
subscribers in two different places.

Thanks,

Tracey





From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 13 21:37:36 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:37:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.1.5 fedora core 3 prevent mailbody problem
In-Reply-To: <42ADC44B.4070400@axelrod.plus.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020050613123736067169dbfbc3@Notebook>

Andy Heath wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Andy Heath wrote:
>> 
>>>they don't show as fails at all.  What appears to happen is
>>>mailman keeps trying to send the mail and succeeding
>>>but it keeps doing it again and again.  Meanwhile no
>>>mail leaves, it just sits in the spool dir.
>> 
>> 
>> What spool directory? The MTA's?
>
>No.  Fedora has its own ideas about where the components
>of mailman should live and its broken up all over and the
>code a tiny bit modified to facilitate that - some
>in /usr/lib, some in /var/lib, some in /var/spool, some
>in /etc.  Its a pain to work with.
>
>In /var/spool there is a mailman directory with these sub directories.
>I presumed they were normally in the /home/mailman
>
>archive  bounces  commands  in  news  out  retry  shunt  virgin
>
>They are not the usual sendmail queues, its before that
>stage.

Right. I understand that Red Hat is trying to be more standards
compliant in where they put things; thus the separation of things into
/var/lib/, /usr/lib/, /usr/spool/, but I would expect those mailman
queue directories to be in /var/spool/mailman/qfiles/ and I would tend
to refer to the directory as qfiles, not spool; thus, my confusion.


>> 
>>>The data directory fills up with .pck files and directories in
>>>the spool dir fill up with mail files.  I was testing with
>>>only one member, one administrator and one or two mails
>>>so the looping was obvious.  Some boundary condition is
>>>failing in the code.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> What is happening is the message is detected as spam and a notise is
>> sent to the listname-owner address with subject "%(listname)s post
>> from %(sender)s requires approval" with the appropriate substitutions
>> for %(listname)s and %(sender)s.
>> 
>> Since this subject matches .*[spam].*, the message to the owner is
>> identified as spam and the whole thing goes again.
>
>Not sure I understand you.  It doesn't get as far as the usual
>sendmail queues.  How does the subject get parsed twice ?


If I am correct here, what is happening is the 'approval' notice is
placed in the virgin queue with a destination of listname-owner at ... It
is then actually sent out and delivered right back to Mailman as a
message for "owner listname". This is how owner notification works in
general. In your case, when it comes back in to the owner address it
is processed through the pipeline of handlers defined in
OWNER_PIPELINE which normally contains SpamDetect as the first
handler. Thus, because of the overly generous regexp, the notice is
held as spam and the process repeats.

If you look in Mailman's 'smtp' log or the sendmail logs, I think
you'll see that there is an outgoing message per loop.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 13 22:07:18 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:07:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.1.5 fedora core 3 prevent mailbody problem
In-Reply-To: <42ADC862.3030400@axelrod.plus.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020050613130718025069dbfa0c@Notebook>

Andy Heath wrote:
>
>so how does "subject:.*[SPAM}.*" (admitredly meaning s or p etc) trigger 
>the behaviour but "subject.*spam" not trigger it ?

Because on the second and subsequent passes through it is looking at
the subject of the notice to the owner which contains 's', 'p', 'a'
and 'm' but not 'spam'. I.e. it is looking at

Subject: %(listname)s post from %(sender)s requires approval

with the appropriate substitutions for %(listname)s and %(sender)s.


>Also - where is this code normally ? I presume SpamDetect just
>calls the rules defined in the spam section, nothing
>cleverer.

The handler Mailman/Handlers/SpamDetect.py just implements
header_filter_rules and if there is a match and the action is Hold, it
calls the hold_for_approval() method in Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py to
actually hold the message and send the notice.


>And if I do decide to separate owners and
>moderators I may need to do the same trick for moderators -
>where is that code ? (sorry but with directories all over
>the place its horrible finding and grepping.) - presume
>there's a MODERATOR_PIPELINE or similar.


No. There's little if any difference between an owner and a moderator
except for which password(s) they know. There is no MODERATOR_PIPELINE
because there is no listname-moderator address. There is an ability
internally in mailman to send to owners, not including moderators, but
I think this is used only by bounce processing.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 13 22:20:19 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:20:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] admin links giving localhost.localdomain so
	linksnot working
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-DAV6B42AD1114D3740084A7ED7F00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC17402005061313201900934505f370@Notebook>

SAA wrote:
>
>admin links giving localhost.localdomain so links not working. everything
>else works except for this. Normal emails to lists and list owners are fine
>but when it goes to the mailman owner of the whole server it shows this link
>in the bottom. Here is a example
>
>As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the following
>mailing list posting:
>
> 
>
>    List:    Mailman at listserver.mdpls.net
>
>    From:    alvarinos at mdpls.org
>
>    Subject: ff
>
>    Reason:  Post by non-member to a members-only list
>
> 
>
>At your convenience, visit:
>
> 
>
>    http://localhost.localdomain/mailman/admindb/mailman
>
>        
>
>to approve or deny the request.

The attribute web_page_url for the 'mailman list' is wrong because when
the list was created DEFAULT_URL_HOST was wrong. Assuming
DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and aany add_virtualhost() lines
in mm_cfg.py are now OK, fix this by running the following command
from the mailman install directory:

bin/withlist -l -r fix_url mailman

If you want to know what this does, run

bin/fix_url.py

to see the documentation.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 13 22:43:58 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 13:43:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] External membership sources
In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20050613131311.0257bdc8@mail.fairhousing.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005061313435801874505f3f5@Notebook>

Tracey McCartney wrote:

>The Mailman home page thanks control.com for their sponsorship of, among 
>other things, "external membership sources" in the new version of Mailman.
>
>Is this "external membership sources" feature documented somewhere yet, and 
>can it be implemented by list administrators, or is it available only to 
>the folks who have access to the server Mailman's running on?  Our Mailman 
>lists run in a shared hosting environment.  I'd love to be able to run 
>Mailman from a MySql database so that I don't have to keep up with 
>subscribers in two different places.

I think that's a reference to the ability to use the extend.py
mechanism to specify a custom member adaptor for a list. go to
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=300103 and search
for Summary keyword: adaptor.

This feature definitely requires the assistance of "the folks who have
access to the server Mailman's running on", but it can be implemented
for a single list or group of lists. The LDAP adaptor that you'll find
with the above search does/describes this better than the MySql
adaptor.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jun 13 21:08:02 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:08:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] External membership sources
In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.2.20050613131311.0257bdc8@mail.fairhousing.com>
References: <6.1.0.6.2.20050613131311.0257bdc8@mail.fairhousing.com>
Message-ID: <p06200702bed389ac228b@[192.168.1.101]>

At 1:17 PM -0500 2005-06-13, Tracey McCartney wrote:

>  Is this "external membership sources" feature documented somewhere yet, and
>  can it be implemented by list administrators, or is it available only to
>  the folks who have access to the server Mailman's running on?

	There's the LDAP member adapter, and there may also be other 
member adapters as well.  However, to make use of them will require 
full administrative access to the server where Mailman is installed.

>                                                                Our Mailman
>  lists run in a shared hosting environment.  I'd love to be able to run
>  Mailman from a MySql database so that I don't have to keep up with
>  subscribers in two different places.

	Talk to your hosting provider.  They may be able to help you.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From jwt at onjapan.net  Tue Jun 14 08:35:57 2005
From: jwt at onjapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:35:57 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listinclusion patch (was: Messages not
	delivered *RESOLVED*)
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200506080952100937be749cd3@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200506080952100937be749cd3@msapiro>
Message-ID: <26F16E41-3838-4BBB-A12E-6D09475FA6F6@onjapan.net>

On Jun 9, 2005, at 01:52, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> I think I see the problem with the listinclusion patch. It locks the
> @list list and doesn't unlock it. I don't see a need to lock the list,

Thanks Mark!  I've made that change as well as finally patching the  
help for accept_these_nonmembers.  The revised version of the patch  
is in the SourceForge patch tracker:
  <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php? 
func=detail&aid=1220144&group_id=103&atid=300103>


-- 
Jim Tittsler     http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship  http://Starship.Python.net/crew/jwt/
Mailman IRC      irc://irc.freenode.net/#mailman




From jean-philippe.giola at st.com  Tue Jun 14 09:43:05 2005
From: jean-philippe.giola at st.com (Jean-Philippe GIOLA)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 09:43:05 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PRIVATE/PUBLIC EXTERNAL ARCHIVER
Message-ID: <42AE8A89.5090108@st.com>

Hi all!

I want to use an another archiver for mailman like monharc or pipermail 
(or one that i 'm developping) and i want to know if , when a mail is 
sent to a list, the external archiver will treat all the mbox file of 
the list or only the mail that was just sent ?

best reguards.

-- 
Jean-Philippe Giola - 6577




From cycling at axelrod.plus.com  Tue Jun 14 10:50:18 2005
From: cycling at axelrod.plus.com (Andy Heath)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 09:50:18 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.1.5 fedora core 3 prevent mailbody problem
In-Reply-To: <PC174020050613130718025069dbfa0c@Notebook>
References: <PC174020050613130718025069dbfa0c@Notebook>
Message-ID: <42AE9A4A.4060504@axelrod.plus.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Andy Heath wrote:
> 
>>so how does "subject:.*[SPAM}.*" (admitredly meaning s or p etc) trigger 
>>the behaviour but "subject.*spam" not trigger it ?
> 
> 
> Because on the second and subsequent passes through it is looking at
> the subject of the notice to the owner which contains 's', 'p', 'a'
> and 'm' but not 'spam'. I.e. it is looking at
> 
> Subject: %(listname)s post from %(sender)s requires approval
> 
> with the appropriate substitutions for %(listname)s and %(sender)s.

ok I got it now.  And in fact redefining OWNER_PIPELINE would
not be the best approach - knowing that the RE is applied
to both messages and getting it right is the way to go.
( so I want subject.*\[SPAM\].* ).

I did log a feature request for the other issue.

Thanks for all your help Mark.

If someone could do an ls -R or ls -lR (if there are links)
of a 2.1.5 mailman directory  and post it it would help figure
out where fedora puts all the pieces (I'll build a list of
links from it so it looks like a normal mailman directory and
I can work with it more easily).

OFF-TOPIC below:

Standards compliance (fedora) is one thing (I work in standards)
but when everyone already has a fine standard (put it in the
mailman user directory) and the community has no plans
to change that then i find it very silly to just throw
that away (when people in a community don't have a standard
practice and need pulling together then imposing one is good
but the mailman community already have a very good de facto
standard that its barmy to change without getting the
community on board).  I'd prefer to stick with normal
mailman practice.   In fact I considered not using
the fedora package and building mailman by hand as I used
to do.

I approve of standards for where to put things but communities
have to be brought along, standards can't be dictated.

Next machine I build won't be fedora - not knowing
where things are feels like working with MS.

andy


From jordi.tomas at urv.net  Tue Jun 14 14:37:38 2005
From: jordi.tomas at urv.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22SER=2ERI-TIC_-_Jordi_Tom=E0s_Boqu=E9=22?=)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:37:38 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug on Version 2.1.5
Message-ID: <42AECF92.7060105@urv.net>

Hi,

today we found this Bug. Version of Mailman is 2.1.5. Maybe new version
solve problem ?

thanks.

-----
Jun 14 11:38:54 2005 admin(1293):
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(1293): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.5 -----]
admin(1293): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(1293): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(1293):   File "/opt/URVmailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
admin(1293):     main()
admin(1293):   File "/opt/URVmailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 234,
in main
admin(1293):     num += show_helds_overview(mlist, form)
admin(1293):   File "/opt/URVmailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 499,
in show_helds_overview
admin(1293):     KKKesender = _(esender)
admin(1293):   File "/opt/URVmailman/Mailman/i18n.py", line 89, in _
admin(1293):     return tns % dict
admin(1293): TypeError: int argument required
admin(1293): [----- Python Information -----]



-- 
--------------------------------------
Jordi Tom?s Boqu?
Recursos Inform?tics i TIC
Universitat Rovira i Virgili
C/ de l'Escorxador s/n 
43003 Tarragona - Catalunya - Spain
A/e: jordi.tomas at urv.net	
Telf: +34 (9) 77 55 8652
Fax: +34 (9) 77 55 82 57
--------------------------------------



From jdennis at redhat.com  Tue Jun 14 16:31:22 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:31:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.1.5 fedora core 3 prevent mailbody problem
In-Reply-To: <42AE9A4A.4060504@axelrod.plus.com>
References: <PC174020050613130718025069dbfa0c@Notebook>
	<42AE9A4A.4060504@axelrod.plus.com>
Message-ID: <1118759483.10013.32.camel@chickadee.boston.redhat.com>

On Tue, 2005-06-14 at 09:50 +0100, Andy Heath wrote:
> If someone could do an ls -R or ls -lR (if there are links)
> of a 2.1.5 mailman directory  and post it it would help figure
> out where fedora puts all the pieces (I'll build a list of
> links from it so it looks like a normal mailman directory and
> I can work with it more easily).

There are two much easier ways to get this information:

1) read the documentation (/usr/share/doc/mailman-*/INSTALL.REDHAT)

2) rpm -ql mailman (-ql prints a package file list)

> OFF-TOPIC below:
> 
> Standards compliance (fedora) is one thing (I work in standards)
> but when everyone already has a fine standard (put it in the
> mailman user directory) and the community has no plans
> to change that then i find it very silly to just throw
> that away

The directory change was dictated by the need to integrate with the
SELinux security policy. This is a positive technology advancement.

Adhering to the FHS (Filesystem Hierarchy Standard) is a stated goal and
appreciated by many.

Most people prefer distributions that integrate packages into a coherent
system that follow established rules.

Individual package defaults are not a standard.

-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From cycling at axelrod.plus.com  Tue Jun 14 17:08:19 2005
From: cycling at axelrod.plus.com (Andy Heath)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:08:19 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.1.5 fedora core 3 prevent mailbody problem
In-Reply-To: <1118759483.10013.32.camel@chickadee.boston.redhat.com>
References: <PC174020050613130718025069dbfa0c@Notebook>	
	<42AE9A4A.4060504@axelrod.plus.com>
	<1118759483.10013.32.camel@chickadee.boston.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <42AEF2E3.7070803@axelrod.plus.com>


>>OFF-TOPIC below:
>>
>>Standards compliance (fedora) is one thing (I work in standards)
>>but when everyone already has a fine standard (put it in the
>>mailman user directory) and the community has no plans
>>to change that then i find it very silly to just throw
>>that away
> 
> 
> The directory change was dictated by the need to integrate with the
> SELinux security policy. This is a positive technology advancement.
> 
> Adhering to the FHS (Filesystem Hierarchy Standard) is a stated goal and
> appreciated by many.
> 
> Most people prefer distributions that integrate packages into a coherent
> system that follow established rules.
> 
> Individual package defaults are not a standard.

I note your email address John (redhat.com) and
observe your defensiveness on this.

I differ on this (and I do work in the standards world).

YMMV - there is no right answer and I qualified all the
things above as opinions and tried not to make
personally projective statements of opinion such
as "Most people prefer ...".  I completely appreciate the
reasons for the FHS but not the way it is applied
to mailman in the community.  One reason for example is that it
means I have to learn TWO standards - the mailman
way and the Fedora way and constantly be mentally
mapping between them - otherwise if I want the latest
update I am dependent on redhat to have packaged it
(which is as bad as Ms.)  The *sensible* way to
implement standards with a community is to get
them on board not redesign their work.

If the mailman developer community adopts the FHS for
mailman then that's a different story entirely and
I would follow without complaint.

These are my views, not those of any company
and I'm not claiming any blanket truths except
that standards are only as useful as their
adoption by communities.

The ls -lR of /home/mailman would still be
useful

andy


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 14 17:10:55 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 08:10:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PRIVATE/PUBLIC EXTERNAL ARCHIVER
In-Reply-To: <42AE8A89.5090108@st.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020050614081055062561e19e08@msapiro>

Jean-Philippe GIOLA wrote:
>
>I want to use an another archiver for mailman like monharc or pipermail 
>(or one that i 'm developping) and i want to know if , when a mail is 
>sent to a list, the external archiver will treat all the mbox file of 
>the list or only the mail that was just sent ?

As it says in the description in Defaults.py, the command string is
invoked via os.popen(). This creates a pipe to the standard input of
the command. The current message (only) is then written to the pipe.

At this point, the message has already been written to the
listname.mbox/listname.mbox file, so if your external archiver wants
to read that file, it can, but it doesn't have to to get the current
message which is piped to its standard input.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 14 18:52:11 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 09:52:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug on Version 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <42AECF92.7060105@urv.net>
Message-ID: <PC174020050614095211015626277f87@msapiro>

SER.RI-TIC - Jordi Tom?s Boqu? wrote:
>
>today we found this Bug. Version of Mailman is 2.1.5. Maybe new version
>solve problem ?
>
>thanks.
>
>-----
>Jun 14 11:38:54 2005 admin(1293):
>@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>admin(1293): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.5 -----]
>admin(1293): [----- Traceback ------]
>admin(1293): Traceback (most recent call last):
>admin(1293):   File "/opt/URVmailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
>admin(1293):     main()
>admin(1293):   File "/opt/URVmailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 234,
>in main
>admin(1293):     num += show_helds_overview(mlist, form)
>admin(1293):   File "/opt/URVmailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 499,
>in show_helds_overview
>admin(1293):     KKKesender = _(esender)
>admin(1293):   File "/opt/URVmailman/Mailman/i18n.py", line 89, in _
>admin(1293):     return tns % dict
>admin(1293): TypeError: int argument required
>admin(1293): [----- Python Information -----]

This trace is not from Mailman 2.1.5 as distrubuted. It looks like at
least admindb.py has been patched (possibly by 'KKK'). The line

     KKKesender = _(esender)

is not in the distributed source.

It looks like the specific problem in this case may occur because the
sender address of the held message has a % character in it.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 14 21:08:27 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:08:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Red Hat FHS packaging (was: 2.1.5 fedora core 3
	prevent mailbody problem)
In-Reply-To: <42AEF2E3.7070803@axelrod.plus.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506141208270578d484f43d@msapiro>

Andy Heath wrote:
>
>If the mailman developer community adopts the FHS for
>mailman then that's a different story entirely and
>I would follow without complaint.

In fairness to John Dennis, he did raise these issues for discussion
last year on the Mailman-Developers list. See threads at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2004-September/017270.html
and
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2004-October/017343.html

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From cycling at axelrod.plus.com  Tue Jun 14 22:38:58 2005
From: cycling at axelrod.plus.com (Andy Heath)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:38:58 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Red Hat FHS packaging
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200506141208270578d484f43d@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200506141208270578d484f43d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <42AF4062.2020405@axelrod.plus.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Andy Heath wrote:
> 
>>If the mailman developer community adopts the FHS for
>>mailman then that's a different story entirely and
>>I would follow without complaint.
> 
> 
> In fairness to John Dennis, he did raise these issues for discussion
> last year on the Mailman-Developers list. See threads at
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2004-September/017270.html
> and
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2004-October/017343.html

Thanks for pointing me at these posts Mark.

I read all the content of those 2 posts by
John and understand the arguments.

I'm still of the view that unless the community
runs with it then its not such a good step though
I appreciate John's view is different.

The issue it raises is maintenance.  If FC does
it differently then it means users are
dependent on FC providing updated packages
or working hard to manually do that mapping
with updated code.
Effectively it becomes an FC package not
a general one but the developers are not
part of FC.  It also introduces another
step at which bugs can occur.

Is there guidance in the standard mailman distributions
on how to build for FC starting with a tar.gz ?

There needs to be some easy path between the two methods
in my view.

andy


From jdennis at redhat.com  Tue Jun 14 23:00:39 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:00:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Red Hat FHS packaging
In-Reply-To: <42AF4062.2020405@axelrod.plus.com>
References: <PC1740200506141208270578d484f43d@msapiro>
	<42AF4062.2020405@axelrod.plus.com>
Message-ID: <1118782839.10013.74.camel@chickadee.boston.redhat.com>

On Tue, 2005-06-14 at 21:38 +0100, Andy Heath wrote:
> Is there guidance in the standard mailman distributions
> on how to build for FC starting with a tar.gz ?

To the best of my knowledge the install document provided in the tar
ball applies equally well to Fedora thus it is not necessary to have
special Fedora instructions.

-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Jun 14 22:05:04 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:05:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.1.5 fedora core 3 prevent mailbody problem
In-Reply-To: <42AEF2E3.7070803@axelrod.plus.com>
References: <PC174020050613130718025069dbfa0c@Notebook>	
	<42AE9A4A.4060504@axelrod.plus.com>
	<1118759483.10013.32.camel@chickadee.boston.redhat.com>
	<42AEF2E3.7070803@axelrod.plus.com>
Message-ID: <p0620071abed4e7bd2f1c@[192.168.1.101]>

At 4:08 PM +0100 2005-06-14, Andy Heath wrote:

>  If the mailman developer community adopts the FHS for
>  mailman then that's a different story entirely and
>  I would follow without complaint.

	SELinux and the FHS are both specific to a particular OS -- 
Linux.  We have to support dozens of different OSes.  It would be 
just as silly to apply a standard appropriate for Linux to an 
operating system like Xenix, as it would be to do the reverse.

	We have no choice but to create our own standards that are 
applicable across all the platforms we support.  Of course, we will 
do what we can to make these standards something that can be changed 
at installation time, if someone needs to follow a different set of 
standards for their particular site/platform.


	Of course, if someone else is going to take those features and 
create their own standards, or follow alternative standards, and then 
produce binary installations which will be provided to their 
customers, then they are also responsible for supporting those 
modified versions of the package for their customers.

	RedHat is doing a good job in this area.  Others cannot say the same.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Jun 15 00:24:35 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:24:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Red Hat FHS packaging
In-Reply-To: <42AF4062.2020405@axelrod.plus.com>
References: <PC1740200506141208270578d484f43d@msapiro>
	<42AF4062.2020405@axelrod.plus.com>
Message-ID: <p06200726bed508b4e8f5@[192.168.1.101]>

At 9:38 PM +0100 2005-06-14, Andy Heath wrote:

>  The issue it raises is maintenance.  If FC does
>  it differently then it means users are
>  dependent on FC providing updated packages
>  or working hard to manually do that mapping
>  with updated code.
>  Effectively it becomes an FC package not
>  a general one but the developers are not
>  part of FC.

	Correct.  They have produced their binary package version, and 
they need to keep up-to-date with that.  My experience is that 
they've done a pretty good job in that department.

	Of course, any support issues that come up that are specific to 
their binary package version is something that they will need to 
support.  Again, RedHat seems to have done a pretty good job in that 
respect -- witness John's presence on the mailman-users mailing list, 
and his frequent posts.


	At this point, I'm much more unhappy with the kind of crap we've 
seen from CPanel and Apple.

>  Is there guidance in the standard mailman distributions
>  on how to build for FC starting with a tar.gz ?

	According to their particular filesystem structure?  No.  That is 
something that RedHat would need to produce -- and support.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From kris at linuxcertified.com  Wed Jun 15 01:25:12 2005
From: kris at linuxcertified.com (Kris Vassallo)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:25:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No admin/moderator emails being sent
Message-ID: <1118791511.19610.37.camel@localhost.localdomain>

I am experiencing a problem where the moderators and/or the list admins
are not getting notifications regarding things like mail being held and
I am wondering what I am doing wrong.  

If I send mail to the list as a non list member, the mail gets held, I
(the non list member) get a response via email saying that my message is
being held for moderation. I can login as a list admin or moderator and
look at the pending requests and I see all of the messages awaiting
approval, but the list admins / moderators never get email about it!

I tried setting both the list admin as well as the moderators and
setting a moderator password, no one got notified. I removed the
moderators, leaving only an admin, still nothing. admin_immed_notify is
set to yes and I have also tweaked the file that sends out reminders at
8 am to send out reminders every 5 minutes and then restarted the
mailman service. I see nothing that seems to be showing a problem in the
mailman logs and in the vette log I can see things such as 
"Jun 14 15:43:40 2005 (21062) Announce post from xxxxxxxx at yahoo.com
held, message-id=<20050614224339.72272.qmail at web5
0803.mail.yahoo.com>: Post by non-member to a members-only list"

Does anyone know what could be going on here? 

Thanks much for any help, 
Kris 



From kris at linuxcertified.com  Wed Jun 15 01:31:32 2005
From: kris at linuxcertified.com (Kris Vassallo)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:31:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No admin/moderator emails being sent
In-Reply-To: <1118791511.19610.37.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1118791511.19610.37.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1118791892.19610.42.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Just an update, I sent mail to announce-owner at xxx.com and I have
successfully received the message, so from my understanding, the alias
is not messed up. 
-Kris 

On Tue, 2005-06-14 at 16:25, Kris Vassallo wrote:

> I am experiencing a problem where the moderators and/or the list admins
> are not getting notifications regarding things like mail being held and
> I am wondering what I am doing wrong.  
> 
> If I send mail to the list as a non list member, the mail gets held, I
> (the non list member) get a response via email saying that my message is
> being held for moderation. I can login as a list admin or moderator and
> look at the pending requests and I see all of the messages awaiting
> approval, but the list admins / moderators never get email about it!
> 
> I tried setting both the list admin as well as the moderators and
> setting a moderator password, no one got notified. I removed the
> moderators, leaving only an admin, still nothing. admin_immed_notify is
> set to yes and I have also tweaked the file that sends out reminders at
> 8 am to send out reminders every 5 minutes and then restarted the
> mailman service. I see nothing that seems to be showing a problem in the
> mailman logs and in the vette log I can see things such as 
> "Jun 14 15:43:40 2005 (21062) Announce post from xxxxxxxx at yahoo.com
> held, message-id=<20050614224339.72272.qmail at web5
> 0803.mail.yahoo.com>: Post by non-member to a members-only list"
> 
> Does anyone know what could be going on here? 
> 
> Thanks much for any help, 
> Kris 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/kris%40linuxcertified.com
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.027.htp


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 15 01:39:40 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:39:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No admin/moderator emails being sent
In-Reply-To: <1118791511.19610.37.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506141639400968f2819bd0@msapiro>

Kris Vassallo wrote:

>I am experiencing a problem where the moderators and/or the list admins
>are not getting notifications regarding things like mail being held and
>I am wondering what I am doing wrong.  
>
<snip>
>admin_immed_notify is
>set to yes and I have also tweaked the file that sends out reminders at
>8 am to send out reminders every 5 minutes and then restarted the
>mailman service.

The cron checkdbs job is not involved in sending the admin_immed_notify
messages, although it should send a "xx approvals waiting" type of
message each time it is run (if xx is not zero).


>I see nothing that seems to be showing a problem in the
>mailman logs and in the vette log I can see things such as 
>"Jun 14 15:43:40 2005 (21062) Announce post from xxxxxxxx at yahoo.com
>held, message-id=<20050614224339.72272.qmail at web5
>0803.mail.yahoo.com>: Post by non-member to a members-only list"
>
>Does anyone know what could be going on here? 


All these notices are sent first to the listname-owner address and then
when received by mailman at that address, they are resent to the
actual  owners and moderators. Something is going wrong with this
process. Most likely, the alias for the listname-owner address has
something wrong with it.

Try sending a message directly to the listname-owner address and see
what happens to it. Look in Mailman's bounce log and smtp-failure log
(if any) and/or the MTA logs.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 15 01:46:04 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:46:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No admin/moderator emails being sent
In-Reply-To: <1118791892.19610.42.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <PC17402005061416460403435b0bc07b@msapiro>

Kris Vassallo wrote:

>Just an update, I sent mail to announce-owner at xxx.com and I have
>successfully received the message, so from my understanding, the alias
>is not messed up. 

I replied before I saw this. OK, the announce-owner at xxx.com address
works at least for external mail. You didn't say, but I guess from
absence of complaint that non-held messages and approved messages
actually get sent to the list.

Is VirginRunner running? (try 'ps -fwu mailman' or whatever your
mailman user is). Check Mailman's qrunner log.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kris at linuxcertified.com  Wed Jun 15 02:23:01 2005
From: kris at linuxcertified.com (Kris Vassallo)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:23:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No admin/moderator emails being sent
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005061416460403435b0bc07b@msapiro>
References: <PC17402005061416460403435b0bc07b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1118794980.19610.57.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Tue, 2005-06-14 at 16:46, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> >Just an update, I sent mail to announce-owner at xxx.com and I have
> >successfully received the message, so from my understanding, the alias
> >is not messed up. 
> 
> I replied before I saw this. OK, the announce-owner at xxx.com address
> works at least for external mail. You didn't say, but I guess from
> absence of complaint that non-held messages and approved messages
> actually get sent to the list.

Approved messages hit the list with no problem. Also things such as
notifications that people subscribed to the list and list creations
generate emails to the owner just fine. 

> 
> Is VirginRunner running? (try 'ps -fwu mailman' or whatever your
> mailman user is). Check Mailman's qrunner log.

Yup sure is. 

#ps -fwu mailman
--snip--

mailman  21068 21058  0 15:05 ?        00:00:00 /usr/bin/python
/var/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s

--snip--

As for the log, the last thing I see in there is 
Jun 14 15:05:01 2005 (21068) VirginRunner qrunner started.
So I watched the log and then sent a message, nothing shows up in the
log, I don't know if something is supposed to or not. 

Thanks, 
Kris


> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 15 03:04:06 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:04:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No admin/moderator emails being sent
In-Reply-To: <1118794980.19610.57.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <PC17402005061418040602965b0bc04e@msapiro>

Kris Vassallo wrote:
>
>Approved messages hit the list with no problem. Also things such as
>notifications that people subscribed to the list and list creations
>generate emails to the owner just fine. 

Actually, hold and 'moderator requests' notices are created via a
different method than the subscribe/unsubscribe and list creation
notices.

The former (the ones you don't get) are sent to the listname-owner
address and the others are sent directly to the list of owners (and
moderators in the case of sub/unsub).

Since you have verified that the listname-owner address actually works,
It seems there may be a problem with the way the listname-owner
address is obtained for the notification.

Do you have access to bin/withlist? If so, do

bin/withlist listname

Then at the >>> prompt type

m.GetOwnerEmail()

and see what is returned (enter control-D at the second >>> prompt to
terminate withlist).


<snip>
>As for the log, the last thing I see in there is 
>Jun 14 15:05:01 2005 (21068) VirginRunner qrunner started.
>So I watched the log and then sent a message, nothing shows up in the
>log, I don't know if something is supposed to or not. 

It's good you didn't see anything. You were just looking to see a
message about it exiting if there was one. Normally, things just run
and there are no log entries except when a specific mailmanctl action
(stop, start, restart) is done.

Anyway, I think we've ruled out a qrunner problem.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 15 04:56:14 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:56:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No admin/moderator emails being sent
In-Reply-To: <1118802470.19610.87.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506141956140421623037b3@msapiro>

Kris Vassallo wrote:
>
>On Tue, 2005-06-14 at 18:04, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Since you have verified that the listname-owner address actually works,
>> It seems there may be a problem with the way the listname-owner
>> address is obtained for the notification.
>> Do you have access to bin/withlist? If so, do
>> 
>
>I have root access to the box so I can do whatever :)
>
>> bin/withlist listname
>> 
>> Then at the >>> prompt type
>> 
>> m.GetOwnerEmail()
>> 
>> and see what is returned (enter control-D at the second >>> prompt to
>> terminate withlist).
>
>>>> m.GetOwnerEmail()
>'announce-owner at xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com'
>
>Sounds like what you are telling me is that I should be getting the
>email according to the output of the above command. Hmph....  

Yeah, that's what I say - Hmph.... 

So admin_immed_notify is yes, and the poster gets the reply that the
message is held for moderation, but there is no e-mail to the
owner(s), yet mail addressed directly to
announce-owner at xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com gets delivered to the list owner(s).

If it were working, you would see three entries in Mailman's smtp log
similar to the following:

Jun 14 10:32:59 2005 (13248)
<mailman.292.1118770378.13246.announce at xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com> smtp for 1
recips, completed in 0.027 seconds
Jun 14 10:32:59 2005 (13248)
<mailman.293.1118770378.13246.announce at xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com> smtp for 1
recips, completed in 0.030 seconds
Jun 14 10:33:27 2005 (13248)
<mailman.293.1118770378.13246.announce at xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com> smtp for 1
recips, completed in 0.029 seconds

The time stamps and (pid) will be different and the digits in the
<message-id>s will be different, and the number of recips for the
third entry would be the number of owners and moderators which may be
more than 1, but here's the crucial thing. The first entry with 292 in
the message-id is the notice back to the poster. The second entry with
293 in the message-id is the notice to
announce-owner at xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com, and the third entry with the same
message-id as the second is the re-delivery of the owner notice to the
actual owners/moderators.

Do you see all 3? If not, what? Also is there anything in the
smtp-failure log with the same time/message-id?

Finally, does the same MTA handle mail outgoing from mailman and mail
incoming to mailman. If not, what happens when the outgoing MTA gets
the message for announce-owner at xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.com?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From diana.huang at majitek.com  Wed Jun 15 05:46:31 2005
From: diana.huang at majitek.com (Diana Huang)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:46:31 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] aliases assistant
Message-ID: <00bc01c5715c$d19e0050$c000a8c0@Diana>

Hi All,

I am a novince to Mailman. I followed the steps to install Mailman 2.1.5 in RH Linux 9. It works pretty well except I have to add a bunch of aliases for a list to /etc/aliases. I tried David Champion's mm-handler method to save my manual work, but I got unknown user when I try to send a email. 

I use sendmail. 

My configuration:

1. copy mm-handler to /etc/mail
2. set $MMWRAPPER=/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman
    set $MMLISTDIR=/usr/local/mailman/lists
3. make some changes in sendmail.mc
  a..     change define(`ALIAS_FILE', `/etc/aliases,/etc/lists') to define(`ALIAS_FILE', `/etc/aliases,/etc/lists')
  b..     add Mmailman,  P=/etc/mail/mm-handler, F=rDFMhlqSu, U=mailman:mailman,
          S=EnvFromL, R=EnvToL/HdrToL,
          A=mm-handler $h $u

4. make some changes in virtusertable

@testbed.majitek.com      mailman at mit.majitek.com

mailman at testbed.majitek.com           mailman-owner at mit.majitek.com
mailman-owner at testbed.majitek.com     mailman-owner at mit.majitek.com

MAILER-DAEMON at testbed.majitek.com     mailman-owner at mit.majitek.com
postmaster at testbed.majitek.com        mailman-owner at mit.majitek.com
webmaster at testbed.majitek.com         mailman-owner at mit.majitek.com
abuse at testbed.majitek.com             sun-admin at mit.majitek.com
root at testbed.majitek.com              sun-admin at mit.majitek.com
5. make some changes in mailertable
testbed.majitek.com         mailman:testbed.majitek.com
6. make all these map by running make then restarting sendmail services
7. modify mm_cfg.py
        DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST='mit.majitek.com'
        add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST,DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
        MTA=None


Am I in the right track? really need help!!

Thanks, Diana



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 15 06:10:23 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:10:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] aliases assistant
In-Reply-To: <00bc01c5715c$d19e0050$c000a8c0@Diana>
Message-ID: <PC174020050614211023086939a8b77c@msapiro>

Diana Huang wrote:
>
>I am a novince to Mailman. I followed the steps to install Mailman 2.1.5 in RH Linux 9. It works pretty well except I have to add a bunch of aliases for a list to /etc/aliases. I tried David Champion's mm-handler method to save my manual work, but I got unknown user when I try to send a email. 
>
>I use sendmail. 

I can't help you with configuring mm-handler, but see
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.049.htp
for an alternate way of doing this that might be easier for you.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From diana.huang at majitek.com  Wed Jun 15 07:06:32 2005
From: diana.huang at majitek.com (Diana Huang)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:06:32 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] aliases assistant
References: <PC174020050614211023086939a8b77c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <011d01c57167$ff6d98f0$c000a8c0@Diana>

Hi Mark,

Thx for your email. Actually I tried that method, but I got some errors


/usr/bin/sudo: /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases: command not found
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/genaliases", line 116, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/genaliases", line 106, in main
    MTA.create(mlist, nolock=True, quiet=quiet)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 232, in create
    _update_maps()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 53, in _update_maps
    raise RuntimeError, msg % (acmd, status, errstr)
RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/bin/sudo /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases 
/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases (status: 1, Operation not permitted)

Any comments?

Thanks, Diana



From cycling at axelrod.plus.com  Wed Jun 15 09:05:41 2005
From: cycling at axelrod.plus.com (Andy Heath)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:05:41 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Red Hat FHS packaging
In-Reply-To: <p06200726bed508b4e8f5@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <PC1740200506141208270578d484f43d@msapiro>
	<42AF4062.2020405@axelrod.plus.com>
	<p06200726bed508b4e8f5@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <42AFD345.1080101@axelrod.plus.com>

I acknowledge Redhat do a good job with FHS and
do interface with the community.

>>  Is there guidance in the standard mailman distributions
>>  on how to build for FC starting with a tar.gz ?
> 
> 
>     According to their particular filesystem structure?  No.  That is 
> something that RedHat would need to produce -- and support.
> 

This was my point - I think if you are going to take a package
off on a branch for some specific use that would be a good
thing to do.
I don't want to knock Redhat at all - the policy is
still worlds better than well-known vendors and it
does all work well.
I'm just lamenting my own decision to run with FC3 because
one effect is a partial isolation (or extra work) and
I'm pretty well locked in now.  If john's point that
standard build's work without problem on FC (albeit
without keeping to the FHS) then it won't in general be
an issue except that that fact is not easily apparent.
Having grown up with slackware over a few years I
personally find RH has a slight flavour of OS'es
pedalled by those well-known vendors (*only* slight).

Yes, I suffer from that point that John made that
users tend to get upset when things are not
where they expect them to be.  Even more so
when its hard work finding them.

A plea  to Redhat - if you are going to purloin
mailman and do it with FHS then a file that
accompanies the mailman distribution that explains
how to do a manual build that conforms to the way
RH does it would be very useful - a "how to manually
build for FC? (which ends up with files in the same
places as FC has them).  Since you need to
be following the development and dealing with
that issue anyway I can't see that it is any
extra work to write up the method and keep that
up to date and contributed to the mm distribution.
As its not extra cost the only reason I can see
that RH would NOT do that is to lock persons in
to RH.

andy


From luconsta at pcnet.ro  Wed Jun 15 09:23:36 2005
From: luconsta at pcnet.ro (Lucian Constantin)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:23:36 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Read-Only list but no one can post without approval
	(even non moderated users)
Message-ID: <20050615072238.296667926D@ns.angst.ro>

Dear Members,
 
    I have to set a read-only/announcement list for which I follow the steps
described in the FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp>
&file=faq03.011.htp but even with the "mod" unchecked for the user that is
allowed to post to list, mailman request approval.
    I even reboot the server but with no luck - the only user that have the
rights to post to tha list is not mod[erated] but still has no rights to
post without approval.
    What am I missing?...
    All the settings were done with the web interface, and once it worked,
but only once...
 
Sincerely,
Lucian Constantin


From jean-philippe.giola at st.com  Wed Jun 15 09:34:12 2005
From: jean-philippe.giola at st.com (Jean-Philippe GIOLA)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:34:12 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PRIVATE/PUBLIC EXTERNAL ARCHIVER
In-Reply-To: <PC174020050614081055062561e19e08@msapiro>
References: <PC174020050614081055062561e19e08@msapiro>
Message-ID: <42AFD9F4.9020301@st.com>

So, if I change PRIVATE/PUBLIC EXTERNAL ARCHIVER as : 
*PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '/path/to/my_archiver %(listname)s"
*only the current message wil be theat by my archiver (it's what I 
want...!) ?
Does I understand ?

reguards.
*
*
Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Jean-Philippe GIOLA wrote:
>  
>
>>I want to use an another archiver for mailman like monharc or pipermail 
>>(or one that i 'm developping) and i want to know if , when a mail is 
>>sent to a list, the external archiver will treat all the mbox file of 
>>the list or only the mail that was just sent ?
>>    
>>
>
>As it says in the description in Defaults.py, the command string is
>invoked via os.popen(). This creates a pipe to the standard input of
>the command. The current message (only) is then written to the pipe.
>
>At this point, the message has already been written to the
>listname.mbox/listname.mbox file, so if your external archiver wants
>to read that file, it can, but it doesn't have to to get the current
>message which is piped to its standard input.
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
>  
>


-- 
Cordialement,
Jean-Philippe Giola - 6577




From sythos at sythos.net  Wed Jun 15 09:55:35 2005
From: sythos at sythos.net (Sythos)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:55:35 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] aliases assistant
In-Reply-To: <011d01c57167$ff6d98f0$c000a8c0@Diana>
References: <PC174020050614211023086939a8b77c@msapiro>
	<011d01c57167$ff6d98f0$c000a8c0@Diana>
Message-ID: <20050615075535.GA31704@sythos.net>

On Wed, Jun 15, 2005 at 03:06:32PM +1000, Diana Huang wrote:
> Thx for your email. Actually I tried that method, but I got some errors
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 53, in _update_maps
>     raise RuntimeError, msg % (acmd, status, errstr)

if you use postfix look at mailman FAQ, there is a guide step-by-step to
configure it. I use postfix, and now I have (with a line changed in
mm.cfg and one in main.cf) a totally automated aliases

-- 

Sythos - http://www.sythos.net
  ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
  /\                        - against M$ attachments


From cycling at axelrod.plus.com  Wed Jun 15 10:31:43 2005
From: cycling at axelrod.plus.com (Andy Heath)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 09:31:43 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] external archivers
In-Reply-To: <20050615075535.GA31704@sythos.net>
References: <PC174020050614211023086939a8b77c@msapiro>	<011d01c57167$ff6d98f0$c000a8c0@Diana>
	<20050615075535.GA31704@sythos.net>
Message-ID: <42AFE76F.7090703@axelrod.plus.com>

In 2.0.6 though there was a place to plug in
archivers in mm_config.py it didn't work and
I had to hack the code which left me in a
development island unable to follow upgrades.

What's the position in 2.1.5 ?

I see the posts from another person on this and
that there is a place to pipe posts to another
archiver.  What about

a) plugging in a link in the places where mm says "click here
to go to archives" ?

b) authentication ?

It would be nice if the same locations could be used
and mm also authenticated (assuming the other archive
is a replacement not a supplementary).

Is there a way to do this ?

andy




From stephen at xemacs.org  Wed Jun 15 11:04:40 2005
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:04:40 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Red Hat FHS packaging
In-Reply-To: <42AFD345.1080101@axelrod.plus.com> (Andy Heath's message of
	"Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:05:41 +0100")
References: <PC1740200506141208270578d484f43d@msapiro>
	<42AF4062.2020405@axelrod.plus.com>
	<p06200726bed508b4e8f5@[192.168.1.101]>
	<42AFD345.1080101@axelrod.plus.com>
Message-ID: <873brkt2hj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Andy" == Andy Heath <cycling at axelrod.plus.com> writes:

    Andy> A plea to Redhat - if you are going to purloin mailman and
    Andy> do it with FHS then a file that accompanies the mailman
    Andy> distribution that explains how to do a manual build that
    Andy> conforms to the way RH does it would be very useful

This service is provided by the RPM spec file distributed in the
"source RPM" (there's a parallel srpm for every binary rpm).

Sure, you need to learn to read the spec language, but I wouldn't
hesitate.  (YMMV, but note: I'm a Debian user, I don't know how to
read it myself.  I am sure it would be worth it if I found myself in
your shoes.)

-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From cycling at axelrod.plus.com  Wed Jun 15 11:25:25 2005
From: cycling at axelrod.plus.com (Andy Heath)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:25:25 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Red Hat FHS packaging
In-Reply-To: <873brkt2hj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <PC1740200506141208270578d484f43d@msapiro>	<42AF4062.2020405@axelrod.plus.com>	<p06200726bed508b4e8f5@[192.168.1.101]>	<42AFD345.1080101@axelrod.plus.com>
	<873brkt2hj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <42AFF405.7050807@axelrod.plus.com>

Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>>>>>>"Andy" == Andy Heath <cycling at axelrod.plus.com> writes:
> 
> 
>     Andy> A plea to Redhat - if you are going to purloin mailman and
>     Andy> do it with FHS then a file that accompanies the mailman
>     Andy> distribution that explains how to do a manual build that
>     Andy> conforms to the way RH does it would be very useful
> 
> This service is provided by the RPM spec file distributed in the
> "source RPM" (there's a parallel srpm for every binary rpm).
> 
> Sure, you need to learn to read the spec language, but I wouldn't
> hesitate.  (YMMV, but note: I'm a Debian user, I don't know how to
> read it myself.  I am sure it would be worth it if I found myself in
> your shoes.)
> 
Its customary when you interact with a community to learn
their language not expect them to learn yours.
What you suggest doesn't satisfy the requirement
I stated.

andy


From luconsta at pcnet.ro  Wed Jun 15 16:14:06 2005
From: luconsta at pcnet.ro (Lucian Constantin)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:14:06 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Read-Only list but no one can post without
	approval(even non moderated users)
In-Reply-To: <20050615072238.296667926D@ns.angst.ro>
Message-ID: <20050615141307.8F5D5792E9@ns.angst.ro>

Ok... don't bother anymore... I created another list and now it seems to
work... strange I put the same settings but now it works.

Best regards,
Lucian 

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+luconsta=pcnet.ro at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+luconsta=pcnet.ro at python.org] On Behalf Of
Lucian Constantin
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 10:24 AM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Read-Only list but no one can post without
approval(even non moderated users)

Dear Members,
 
    I have to set a read-only/announcement list for which I follow the steps
described in the FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp>
&file=faq03.011.htp but even with the "mod" unchecked for the user that is
allowed to post to list, mailman request approval.
    I even reboot the server but with no luck - the only user that have the
rights to post to tha list is not mod[erated] but still has no rights to
post without approval.
    What am I missing?...
    All the settings were done with the web interface, and once it worked,
but only once...
 
Sincerely,
Lucian Constantin
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/luconsta%40pcnet.ro

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp




From jdennis at redhat.com  Wed Jun 15 16:21:38 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:21:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] aliases assistant
In-Reply-To: <011d01c57167$ff6d98f0$c000a8c0@Diana>
References: <PC174020050614211023086939a8b77c@msapiro>
	<011d01c57167$ff6d98f0$c000a8c0@Diana>
Message-ID: <1118845299.10013.92.camel@chickadee.boston.redhat.com>

On Wed, 2005-06-15 at 15:06 +1000, Diana Huang wrote:
> Hi Mark,
> 
> Thx for your email. Actually I tried that method, but I got some errors
> 
> 
> /usr/bin/sudo: /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases: command not found
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/genaliases", line 116, in ?
>     main()
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/genaliases", line 106, in main
>     MTA.create(mlist, nolock=True, quiet=quiet)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 232, in create
>     _update_maps()
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 53, in _update_maps
>     raise RuntimeError, msg % (acmd, status, errstr)
> RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/bin/sudo /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases 
> /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases (status: 1, Operation not permitted)
> 
> Any comments?

I suspect /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases is either not executable or
not executable by the user/group the command is running under (what
user/group that is depends on how you did your installation)

What does 

ls -l /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases

say? 
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 15 16:46:43 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 07:46:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PRIVATE/PUBLIC EXTERNAL ARCHIVER
In-Reply-To: <42AFD9F4.9020301@st.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005061507464300151595977a@msapiro>

Jean-Philippe GIOLA wrote:

>So, if I change PRIVATE/PUBLIC EXTERNAL ARCHIVER as : 
>*PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '/path/to/my_archiver %(listname)s"
>*only the current message wil be theat by my archiver (it's what I 
>want...!) ?
>Does I understand ?

Yes, the current message and only the current message will piped to the
standard input of /path/to/my_archiver.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jdennis at redhat.com  Wed Jun 15 16:57:05 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:57:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Red Hat FHS packaging
In-Reply-To: <42AFD345.1080101@axelrod.plus.com>
References: <PC1740200506141208270578d484f43d@msapiro>
	<42AF4062.2020405@axelrod.plus.com>
	<p06200726bed508b4e8f5@[192.168.1.101]>
	<42AFD345.1080101@axelrod.plus.com>
Message-ID: <1118847426.10013.120.camel@chickadee.boston.redhat.com>

On Wed, 2005-06-15 at 08:05 +0100, Andy Heath wrote:
> A plea  to Redhat - if you are going to purloin
> mailman and do it with FHS then a file that
> accompanies the mailman distribution that explains
> how to do a manual build that conforms to the way
> RH does it would be very useful - a "how to manually
> build for FC? (which ends up with files in the same
> places as FC has them).

There is indeed a file that recreates the build, it's the src rpm and
it's readily available. The src rpm contains the virgin tarball, all the
current patches, and the mailman.spec spec file that controls the build.

Users familiar with distributions utilizing rpm as the packaging tool
(of which Red Hat / Fedora is only just one example) routinely download
src rpms, tweak them for their own use and rebuild. This is standard
practice.

> Since you need to
> be following the development and dealing with
> that issue anyway I can't see that it is any
> extra work to write up the method and keep that
> up to date and contributed to the mm distribution.

It's not appropriate for the mailman project to maintain rpms, this is
the domain of distributions which repackage "upstream". This has been
the working model of open source development almost since its inception.

> As its not extra cost the only reason I can see
> that RH would NOT do that is to lock persons in
> to RH.

Everything you have asked for is available, free, and transparent. I
suspect your conclusions are driven by a lack of familiarity with how to
find what you are looking for rather than anything devious. To suggest
disingenuous lock in by Red Hat is utter nonsense.

-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 15 17:01:43 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:01:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Read-Only list but no one can post
	withoutapproval(even non moderated users)
In-Reply-To: <20050615141307.8F5D5792E9@ns.angst.ro>
Message-ID: <PC17402005061508014301872507fcc6@msapiro>

Lucian Constantin wrote:
> 
>    I have to set a read-only/announcement list for which I follow the steps
>described in the FAQ: 
><http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.011.htp>
>but even with the "mod" unchecked for the user that is
>allowed to post to list, mailman request approval.
>    I even reboot the server but with no luck - the only user that have the
>rights to post to tha list is not mod[erated] but still has no rights to
>post without approval.

and

>Ok... don't bother anymore... I created another list and now it seems to
>work... strange I put the same settings but now it works.

Possibly emergency moderation got turned on for the first list.

In any case, it is more secure to moderate everyone and post using an
Approved: header as mentioned in the above FAQ and in more detail in
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.034.htp

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 15 17:13:04 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:13:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] aliases assistant
In-Reply-To: <1118845299.10013.92.camel@chickadee.boston.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506150813040828235e0520@msapiro>

John Dennis wrote:

>On Wed, 2005-06-15 at 15:06 +1000, Diana Huang wrote:
>> Hi Mark,
>> 
>> Thx for your email. Actually I tried that method, but I got some errors
>> 
>> 
>> /usr/bin/sudo: /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases: command not found
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/genaliases", line 116, in ?
>>     main()
>>   File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/genaliases", line 106, in main
>>     MTA.create(mlist, nolock=True, quiet=quiet)
>>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 232, in create
>>     _update_maps()
>>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 53, in _update_maps
>>     raise RuntimeError, msg % (acmd, status, errstr)
>> RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/bin/sudo /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases 
>> /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases (status: 1, Operation not permitted)
>> 
>> Any comments?
>
>I suspect /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases is either not executable or
>not executable by the user/group the command is running under (what
>user/group that is depends on how you did your installation)


This is somewhat puzzling.

>> /usr/bin/sudo: /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases: command not found

seems to indicate that there is a problem with
/usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases as John suggests, but

>> RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/bin/sudo /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases 
>> /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases (status: 1, Operation not permitted)

seems to say that the commands in /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases, the
first of which is presumably

/bin/cp /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases /etc/mailman.aliases

are being executed and it is this first command which fails, but since
this is executed via sudo as root, why would it be 'not permitted'?

I don't know the answer.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jdennis at redhat.com  Wed Jun 15 17:33:36 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:33:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] aliases assistant
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200506150813040828235e0520@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200506150813040828235e0520@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1118849616.10013.133.camel@chickadee.boston.redhat.com>

On Wed, 2005-06-15 at 08:13 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >> RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/bin/sudo /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases 
> >> /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases (status: 1, Operation not permitted)
> 
> seems to say that the commands in /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases, the
> first of which is presumably
> 
> /bin/cp /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases /etc/mailman.aliases
> 
> are being executed and it is this first command which fails, but since
> this is executed via sudo as root, why would it be 'not permitted'?

I agree with Mark, it could permission problems either with the script
or with the commands the script executes.

I sometimes get fooled by the misconception "root can do anything" too,
but in fact it can't, permissions are still checked. The most common
example of this is a file whose permissions are granted only to a
non-root owner. Root is denied in this case. However root can su to that
owner and then perform the operation.

Also, the complete absence of execute permission is not something root
can compensate for.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From sean at sweetbourbon.com  Wed Jun 15 18:32:53 2005
From: sean at sweetbourbon.com (Sean)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:32:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] privacy alert
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1494.1118639973.10511.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.1494.1118639973.10511.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0506151228160.39946@seyyav.pair.com>


I was unable to find a template for the privacy alerts that Mailman sends
out when an attempt is made to subscribe an address that is already
subscribe to the list.  Where is text that Mailman uses to generate these
messages?

I would like to edit the text to include the IP address that made the
subscribe attempt like it is include in the verify.txt.

Thanks,
Sean


From cycling at axelrod.plus.com  Wed Jun 15 19:20:00 2005
From: cycling at axelrod.plus.com (Andy Heath)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:20:00 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Red Hat FHS packaging
In-Reply-To: <1118847426.10013.120.camel@chickadee.boston.redhat.com>
References: <PC1740200506141208270578d484f43d@msapiro>	
	<42AF4062.2020405@axelrod.plus.com>
	<p06200726bed508b4e8f5@[192.168.1.101]>	
	<42AFD345.1080101@axelrod.plus.com>
	<1118847426.10013.120.camel@chickadee.boston.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <42B06340.3020400@axelrod.plus.com>

John Dennis wrote:

> On Wed, 2005-06-15 at 08:05 +0100, Andy Heath wrote:
> 
>>A plea  to Redhat - if you are going to purloin
>>mailman and do it with FHS then a file that
>>accompanies the mailman distribution that explains
>>how to do a manual build that conforms to the way
>>RH does it would be very useful - a "how to manually
>>build for FC? (which ends up with files in the same
>>places as FC has them).
> 
> 
> There is indeed a file that recreates the build, it's the src rpm and
> it's readily available. The src rpm contains the virgin tarball, all the
> current patches, and the mailman.spec spec file that controls the build.
> 
> Users familiar with distributions utilizing rpm as the packaging tool
> (of which Red Hat / Fedora is only just one example) routinely download
> src rpms, tweak them for their own use and rebuild. This is standard
> practice.
> 
> 
>>Since you need to
>>be following the development and dealing with
>>that issue anyway I can't see that it is any
>>extra work to write up the method and keep that
>>up to date and contributed to the mm distribution.
> 
> 
> It's not appropriate for the mailman project to maintain rpms, this is
> the domain of distributions which repackage "upstream". This has been
> the working model of open source development almost since its inception.
> 
> 
>>As its not extra cost the only reason I can see
>>that RH would NOT do that is to lock persons in
>>to RH.
> 
> 
> Everything you have asked for is available, free, and transparent. I
> suspect your conclusions are driven by a lack of familiarity with how to
> find what you are looking for rather than anything devious. To suggest
> disingenuous lock in by Red Hat is utter nonsense.
> 
Sorry John and I don't mean to be rude
but I think this is salespersons bs.
It comes across to me as "our product does everything,
you want so you don't need anything else".

Many open source software products provide small text
installation documentation files that explain what
is needed for particular platforms - for example
the XFree86 distributions used to (dunno if they
still do).  The answer "come look over here at
our product" doesn't cut it with me.  There is
mutual co-operation
and there is "come look over here and you won't
need anything else".  You seem to be displaying
the second.

I differ from your view.

No offence intended.

andy


From srb at umich.edu  Wed Jun 15 19:46:05 2005
From: srb at umich.edu (Steve Burling)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:46:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Red Hat FHS packaging
In-Reply-To: <42B06340.3020400@axelrod.plus.com>
References: <PC1740200506141208270578d484f43d@msapiro>
	<42AF4062.2020405@axelrod.plus.com>	<p06200726bed508b4e8f5@[192.168.1.101]>
	<42AFD345.1080101@axelrod.plus.com>
	<1118847426.10013.120.camel@chickadee.boston.redhat.com>
	<42B06340.3020400@axelrod.plus.com>
Message-ID: <EE5B3EAA0D58A8D5FB366F5E@srb.local>

--On June 15, 2005 6:20:00 PM +0100 Andy Heath <cycling at axelrod.plus.com> 
wrote:

> I differ from your view.

I think you've made your position clear.  John's made his position clear. 
How about if the two of you take the rest of this discussion offline?


-- 
Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910


From msmith at uss-starlord.org  Wed Jun 15 20:33:16 2005
From: msmith at uss-starlord.org (Michael D. Smith)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:33:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with a new install...
Message-ID: <6.2.3.0.2.20050615143313.02530340@defiant.uss-starlord.org>

I'm installing Mailman 2.1.6 on a RHEL 4.0 server...

I was having trouble with the smrsh, but worked that out...

Now however, when I post to a test list I get the following...

>   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/home/mailman/scripts/post", line 69, in ?
>     main()
>   File "/home/mailman/scripts/post", line 64, in main
>     tolist=1, _plaintext=1)
>   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 126, in enqueue
>     fp = open(tmpfile, 'w')
>IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 
>'/home/mailman/qfiles/in/1118859566.129771+f526306b132c44862f163e9fbf3e65bea7258162.pck.tmp'
>554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1

Any ideas?

Thanks for your time.

Regards,
Mike

msmith at uss-starlord.org  




From jdennis at redhat.com  Wed Jun 15 21:05:15 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:05:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with a new install...
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.0.2.20050615143313.02530340@defiant.uss-starlord.org>
References: <6.2.3.0.2.20050615143313.02530340@defiant.uss-starlord.org>
Message-ID: <1118862315.10013.181.camel@chickadee.boston.redhat.com>

On Wed, 2005-06-15 at 14:33 -0400, Michael D. Smith wrote:
> I'm installing Mailman 2.1.6 on a RHEL 4.0 server...
> 
> I was having trouble with the smrsh, but worked that out...
> 
> Now however, when I post to a test list I get the following...
> 
> >   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> >Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "/home/mailman/scripts/post", line 69, in ?
> >     main()
> >   File "/home/mailman/scripts/post", line 64, in main
> >     tolist=1, _plaintext=1)
> >   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 126, in enqueue
> >     fp = open(tmpfile, 'w')
> >IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 
> >'/home/mailman/qfiles/in/1118859566.129771+f526306b132c44862f163e9fbf3e65bea7258162.pck.tmp'
> >554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 1
> 
> Any ideas?

The qfile cannot be opened for writing. This is either a permission
problem or SELinux is denying access. You need to:

1) Verify the user/group the MTA is executing the post command under,
then look at the permissions on the directory and file.

2) Examine /var/log/messages and/or /var/log/audit for "avc" messages,
these log SELinux denials.

3) Try turning SELinux off (/usr/sbin/setenforce Permissive)

4) Contact me off list for a trial 2.1.6 rpm (I've created the rpm but
have not tested it yet, you could be the guinna pig :-)

BTW, the RHEL 4 mailman rpm already has the security patches that
prompted the 2.1.6 release, but 2.1.6 has some other new stuff as well.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From msmith at uss-starlord.org  Wed Jun 15 21:12:36 2005
From: msmith at uss-starlord.org (Michael D. Smith)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:12:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with a new install...
In-Reply-To: <1118862315.10013.181.camel@chickadee.boston.redhat.com>
References: <6.2.3.0.2.20050615143313.02530340@defiant.uss-starlord.org>
	<1118862315.10013.181.camel@chickadee.boston.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.0.2.20050615150939.024f9b58@defiant.uss-starlord.org>

At 15:05 6/15/2005, John Dennis wrote:
>The qfile cannot be opened for writing. This is either a permission
>problem or SELinux is denying access. You need to:
>
>1) Verify the user/group the MTA is executing the post command under,
>then look at the permissions on the directory and file.

I'll have to try that.

>2) Examine /var/log/messages and/or /var/log/audit for "avc" messages,
>these log SELinux denials.
>3) Try turning SELinux off (/usr/sbin/setenforce Permissive)

I turned off SELinux.  :)

>4) Contact me off list for a trial 2.1.6 rpm (I've created the rpm but
>have not tested it yet, you could be the guinna pig :-)

I don't like being a test animal, but thanks for the offer! :)

After this is fixed, I still have to work on that pesky issue with 
getting the webpages to work....

That's what I get from going from RH8 to RHEL 4 :)

Regards,
Mike

msmith at uss-starlord.org 




From lee at starshapedmedia.com  Wed Jun 15 22:31:41 2005
From: lee at starshapedmedia.com (Starshaped Media)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 20:31:41 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customize the design
Message-ID: <000a01c3337d$294f5760$6601a8c0@LAPTOP>

I have Mailman up and running on my shared hosting account, in fact my host already had it installed.

Anyway, I have managed to change the design (via the admin panel) for the info and subscription pages but there are still a few pages that I have no idea where or how to edit.

My host doesn't offer support for Mailman, they did mention that I might be because I do not have 'shell-access' to Mailman, is this the case?

Thanks
Lee

From spork at bway.net  Wed Jun 15 22:53:10 2005
From: spork at bway.net (Charles Sprickman)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:53:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Red Hat FHS packaging
In-Reply-To: <EE5B3EAA0D58A8D5FB366F5E@srb.local>
References: <PC1740200506141208270578d484f43d@msapiro>
	<42AF4062.2020405@axelrod.plus.com>
	<p06200726bed508b4e8f5@[192.168.1.101]>
	<42AFD345.1080101@axelrod.plus.com>
	<1118847426.10013.120.camel@chickadee.boston.redhat.com>
	<42B06340.3020400@axelrod.plus.com>
	<EE5B3EAA0D58A8D5FB366F5E@srb.local>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.61.0506151652330.8775@gee5.nat.fasttrackmonkey.com>

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005, Steve Burling wrote:

> --On June 15, 2005 6:20:00 PM +0100 Andy Heath <cycling at axelrod.plus.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I differ from your view.
>
> I think you've made your position clear.  John's made his position clear.
> How about if the two of you take the rest of this discussion offline?

Best idea yet.  This is a Linux/RedHat issue of little interest to those 
not running RedHat.

C

>
> -- 
> Steve Burling                                    <mailto:srb at umich.edu>
> University of Michigan, ICPSR                    Voice: +1 734 615.3779
> 330 Packard Street                               FAX:   +1 734 647.8700
> Ann Arbor, MI 48104-2910
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/spork%40bway.net
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>


From tderouin at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 23:17:53 2005
From: tderouin at gmail.com (Travis Derouin)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:17:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailertable ignored by sendmail
Message-ID: <631bbe19050615141758aa8ae2@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm attempting to install Mailman on a Redhat linux box and integrate it 
with Sendmail. 

When I set Mailman to be the local service (just by switching Mlocal and 
Mmailman in sendmail.cf <http://sendmail.cf>), it works fine and dandy, but 
I can't seem to get sendmail to process any rules in mailertable even when I 
try simple examples posted on the net. mailertable.db is being generated 
each time mailertable is edited and sendmail is restarted. I've been through 
mm-handler.readme a few times (it needs some editing, btw) and nothing seems 
to account for this. 

My mailertable looks like:

lists.mydomain.com <http://lists.mydomain.com>
mailman:lists.mydomain.com<http://lists.mydomain.com>

All mail that I send to list at lists.mydomain.com simply goes right on through 
to my usual mail server and bounces back, even when I'm talking to my 
localhost sendmail. 

A side note: The provided mailman.mc <http://mailman.mc> file generates a 
.cf file that's unusable by sendmail, it seems that when sendmail is 
restarted there are a bunch of syntax errors:

line 7: fileclass: cannot open 'ATURE(local_procmail)': No such file or 
directory
554 5.0.0 /etc/mail/sendmail.cf: line 8: MAILER(local): A= argument required

... etc etc etc

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.
Travis


From waterstc+ at pitt.edu  Thu Jun 16 00:11:16 2005
From: waterstc+ at pitt.edu (Thomas Waters)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:11:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to migrate an entire Mailman site from one
	server to another?
Message-ID: <42E8E538-C374-4E42-8C94-2424BAF789B9@pitt.edu>

I looked through the FAQ but didn't find what I was looking for.

I'm setting up a new OS X Tiger 10.4 Server to replace our current  
10.3 Server, and looking for the easiest way to move all the email  
lists.  We have about 25 lists.  I can let go of the archives- that  
isn't a big deal.  I can export each list's member, add each list  
manually to the new server and then import- but was hoping there was  
an easier way.  Suggestions?

Thanks,


--
Thomas Waters
Director of Information and Communication Services
University of Pittsburgh School of Pharmacy
412-383-7471
waterstc at pitt.edu
http://www.pharmacy.pitt.edu



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 16 01:07:40 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:07:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Customize the design
In-Reply-To: <000a01c3337d$294f5760$6601a8c0@LAPTOP>
Message-ID: <PC17402005061516074000310b7a4427@msapiro>

Starshaped Media wrote:

>I have Mailman up and running on my shared hosting account, in fact my host already had it installed.
>
>Anyway, I have managed to change the design (via the admin panel) for the info and subscription pages but there are still a few pages that I have no idea where or how to edit.
>
>My host doesn't offer support for Mailman, they did mention that I might be because I do not have 'shell-access' to Mailman, is this the case?
>

There are a few templates that can be edited via the "Edit the public
HTML pages" link in the admin interface. This editing makes a list
specific, edited version of the template. Most of the templates are
not editable via this web interface and some pages are not built from
templates at all.

To edit the templates that aren't editable through the web generally
does require shell access that your hosting provider is not likely to
give you for a shared installation.

See the FAQ article at
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp
for general information about where edited templates need to go to
affect a particular list, a particular domain or the whole site.

To see what templates there are and what they look like, go to
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/mailman/mailman/templates/en/
(or possibly another 'language' directory) and scroll to the bottom
and select the branch corresponding to your Mailman version.

If you retrieve and edit the templates of interest, you may be able to
convince your host provider to install them for you as described in
the above FAQ reference.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 16 01:30:56 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:30:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] privacy alert
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0506151228160.39946@seyyav.pair.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005061516305604842d240f9c@msapiro>

Sean wrote:
>
>I was unable to find a template for the privacy alerts that Mailman sends
>out when an attempt is made to subscribe an address that is already
>subscribe to the list.

That's because it's not a template.

>Where is text that Mailman uses to generate these
>messages?


It is coded directly in Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py


>I would like to edit the text to include the IP address that made the
>subscribe attempt like it is include in the verify.txt.


You can edit the text in the above module. I think you can use
%(remote)s in this text to get the IP address.

If you are concerned about languages other than English, you also have
to edit the corresponding messages/<language>/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
and then regenerate the corresponding mailman.mo file using
bin/msgfmt.py.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 16 01:50:18 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:50:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to migrate an entire Mailman site from
	oneserver to another?
In-Reply-To: <42E8E538-C374-4E42-8C94-2424BAF789B9@pitt.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402005061516501804846825c0b6@msapiro>

Thomas Waters wrote:

>I looked through the FAQ but didn't find what I was looking for.


FAQ article 3.4 is supposed to cover this, but it may be out of date.


>I'm setting up a new OS X Tiger 10.4 Server to replace our current  
>10.3 Server, and looking for the easiest way to move all the email  
>lists.  We have about 25 lists.  I can let go of the archives- that  
>isn't a big deal.  I can export each list's member, add each list  
>manually to the new server and then import- but was hoping there was  
>an easier way.  Suggestions?

The zeroth step is to ensure Mailman is installed and working on the
new server.

Then the first step is simply to move the contents of the lists/ and
archives/ directories to the new server. Likewise the aliases for the
MTA.

If the domains of the new server will be the same as the old server,
you're done.

If the domains have changed, you need to be sure that DEFAULT_URL_HOST
and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and any add_virtualhost() are all correct in
mm_cfg.py. Then run fix_url to fix the lists and

bin/arch --wipe listname

for each list with archives to rebuild the archives from the
listname.mbox/listname.mbox file so that links in the archives have
the correct url host.

Run

bin/fix_url.py

and

bin/arch --help

for more info.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 16 02:28:29 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:28:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] external archivers
In-Reply-To: <42AFE76F.7090703@axelrod.plus.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005061517282900316f93fa5c@msapiro>

Andy Heath wrote:

>In 2.0.6 though there was a place to plug in
>archivers in mm_config.py it didn't work and
>I had to hack the code which left me in a
>development island unable to follow upgrades.
>
>What's the position in 2.1.5 ?
>
>I see the posts from another person on this and
>that there is a place to pipe posts to another
>archiver.  What about
>
>a) plugging in a link in the places where mm says "click here
>to go to archives" ?

There is a Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py variable which defaults to

PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'http://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'

You can change this for public archives.

For private archives, see below.

>b) authentication ?
>
>It would be nice if the same locations could be used
>and mm also authenticated (assuming the other archive
>is a replacement not a supplementary).
>
>Is there a way to do this ?

For private archives, URLs look like
http://<host>/mailman/private/<list>/...  These urls are handled by a
CGI script Mailman/Cgi/private.py that does both the authentication
and the actual access. You could modify this script to keep the
authentication and just access your own archive. The security for
private archives is enforced by their not being world readable or
accessable to the web server directly. The web server accesses
private.py through the cgi-bin/private wrapper which is setgid to the
mailman group which does have access to the archives.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From SubZero at subzero5.yi.org  Thu Jun 16 02:45:02 2005
From: SubZero at subzero5.yi.org (Sub Zero)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 03:45:02 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I remove the Sender option?
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAnIzqCXzsZ0ufGptm0/OQ28KAAAAQAAAA32M8rjkgPUmoxo5b6UDHwwEAAAAA@subzero5.yi.org>

Hello,

I have removed the "Sender" header from one of my lists and now I want to
remove it from all my other lists too.  I don't know how I did that :( but I
want to do the same for my other lists.  Can anyone point me to a right
direction please?

Have a nice day.
--
SubZero



From diana.huang at majitek.com  Thu Jun 16 02:48:38 2005
From: diana.huang at majitek.com (Diana Huang)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 10:48:38 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] aliases assistant
References: <PC1740200506150813040828235e0520@msapiro>
	<1118849616.10013.133.camel@chickadee.boston.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <006a01c5720d$22edfa90$c000a8c0@Diana>

Thanks all, you guys really give me some hints on my problem. Let me show 
you permission of the script and the commands the script executes.


> I agree with Mark, it could permission problems either with the script
> or with the commands the script executes.
>
> I sometimes get fooled by the misconception "root can do anything" too,
> but in fact it can't, permissions are still checked. The most common
> example of this is a file whose permissions are granted only to a
> non-root owner. Root is denied in this case. However root can su to that
> owner and then perform the operation.
>
> Also, the complete absence of execute permission is not something root
> can compensate for.

-rw-r--r--    1 root     root           81 Jun  7 12:41 
/usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases

-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root        47988 Oct 30  2003 /bin/cp

-rw-rw----    1 mailman  mailman      1110 Jun 15 15:11 
/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases

-rw-r--r--    1 root     root          685 Jun  7 13:42 /etc/mailman.aliases

lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root           32 Apr  7  2003 
/usr/bin/newaliases -> /etc/alternatives/mta-newaliases

I create a mailman user, which is in the mailman group. The mailman group 
only has a mailman user.

I suppose the problems are caused by:

1. user mailman has no  execute permission to run 
/usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases (causes "command not found")
2. user root has no read permission to see /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases 
(causes "status: 1, Operation not permitted")

Am I right?

Cheers, Diana 



From skoon40 at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 16 04:17:08 2005
From: skoon40 at hotmail.com (adel ali)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 05:17:08 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hi
Message-ID: <BAY9-F18C29892F4E1FC70D981C4BDF50@phx.gbl>



_________________________________________________________________
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From lee at starshapedmedia.com  Thu Jun 16 09:22:48 2005
From: lee at starshapedmedia.com (Starshaped Media)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 08:22:48 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installation
Message-ID: <50503db5c2b543adedf5c1d35a5c97f2@starshapedmedia.com>

Does anyone know if there is a service whereby somebody can install 
Mailman for me, obviously I don't mind paying for this, just need to 
find it.

Thanks.



From rfried at shemesh.co.il  Thu Jun 16 12:16:46 2005
From: rfried at shemesh.co.il (rfried)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 12:16:46 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how can I forward messages without having it appear
	as an attachment?
Message-ID: <000601c5725c$857a4e30$6401a8c0@FRIED>

Hi,

I moderate a list and want to forward a message from within 'pending
requests'
to another address that is another email list that we run.

I have found out that the posting text went out as an attachment, with
the
body of the actual email text-less. Also the From: did not state the
original sender of the posting but as 'mylistname-bounces'.

So does anyone know if it's possible with a posting forwarded from
one list to another to have it

a) sent not as an attachment but with the text in the body of the email

and

b) contain a From: header with the sender's address and not a '-bounces'
one

??

Thanks for any advice or fixes.

Riki

P.S. A similar question to this one was posted in the archives and I
never saw an answer. Is there one?





From jean-philippe.giola at st.com  Thu Jun 16 11:49:57 2005
From: jean-philippe.giola at st.com (Jean-Philippe GIOLA)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:49:57 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pipermail+archives
Message-ID: <42B14B45.3080803@st.com>

Hi all

On what is pipermail based on to make the coherence with the 
representation of the archives ?
i-e in order to know witch mail is a answer to another mail for the html 
representation for having a "three" representation.

reguards

-- 
Cordialement,
Jean-Philippe Giola - 6577




From SubZero at subzero5.yi.org  Thu Jun 16 12:33:14 2005
From: SubZero at subzero5.yi.org (Sub Zero)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 13:33:14 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Viewing 5xx errorred recipient emails
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAnIzqCXzsZ0ufGptm0/OQ28KAAAAQAAAA6Zg/DdmODUWfeXfnUZORmwEAAAAA@subzero5.yi.org>

Hi,

Can I see a list of all 5xx recipients in python?

Thanks and have a nice day.
--
SubZero



From eppinette at ulm.edu  Thu Jun 16 14:46:54 2005
From: eppinette at ulm.edu (Chance Eppinette)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 07:46:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Large list problem
Message-ID: <20050616124051.4CC1312733@smtp.ulm.edu>

Hello,

I am running Mailman 2.1.5 on a Solaris 2.8 SUN 280R (fully loaded).

I have a number of lists but 1 in particular is giving me problems.  The
list currently has about 14000 members of which about 1100 are disabled due
to bounces.
The problem seems to arise when a message is sent to the list (around every
2-3 weeks).

The CPU time for a python process jumps up to around 50% for an indetermined
amount of time (> 24 hours).
While the system is "working" on this list message, GUI access to the list
is nearly impossible (can't login); while other lists seem to function OK.
Up to this point I have had to stop/kill all Mailman processes and then
restart Mailman several times to bring things back to normal with the List
service.
The intended message being sent to the list does arrive in users mailboxes
(which are worldwide).

I believe the culprit to be a combination of managing the number of bounces
due to the size of the list membership.

Also, we prefer that once a member has been disabled for 3 bounces, that it
also be unsubscribed from the list.  This does seem to occur, but it seems
to take forever to occur.  Like I said there are about 1100 addresses
disabled right now.  However, they have yet to be removed.  It is like the
system is waiting on something else to occur, but I don't know what.

Are there any recommendations....

Many thanks,

Chance Eppinette
Technology Support Manager
ULM Computing Center
eppinette at ulm.edut 
318-342-5021 (phone)
318-342-5018 (fax)


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 16 16:18:32 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 07:18:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] aliases assistant
In-Reply-To: <006a01c5720d$22edfa90$c000a8c0@Diana>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506160718320953b27d7379@msapiro>

Diana Huang wrote:

>Thanks all, you guys really give me some hints on my problem. Let me show 
>you permission of the script and the commands the script executes.
>
<snip>
>
>-rw-r--r--    1 root     root           81 Jun  7 12:41 
>/usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases
>
>-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root        47988 Oct 30  2003 /bin/cp
>
>-rw-rw----    1 mailman  mailman      1110 Jun 15 15:11 
>/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
>
>-rw-r--r--    1 root     root          685 Jun  7 13:42 /etc/mailman.aliases
>
>lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root           32 Apr  7  2003 
>/usr/bin/newaliases -> /etc/alternatives/mta-newaliases
>
>I create a mailman user, which is in the mailman group. The mailman group 
>only has a mailman user.
>
>I suppose the problems are caused by:
>
>1. user mailman has no  execute permission to run 
>/usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases (causes "command not found")

Actually, no one has permission to execute this file. It's root that
needs permission because it's run by sudo as root.

chmod +x /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases

or 

chmod 755 /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases


>2. user root has no read permission to see /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases 
>(causes "status: 1, Operation not permitted")

That's correct.

chmod o+r /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases

or

chmod 664 /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases


--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Jost.Krieger+mailman at rub.de  Thu Jun 16 16:23:54 2005
From: Jost.Krieger+mailman at rub.de (Jost Krieger)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 16:23:54 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply-To revisited
Message-ID: <20050616142354.GZ12232@ruhr-uni-bochum.de>

No, I don't want to convert you to my opinion of Reply-To handling :-)

I think Mailmans attitude is correct, everyone should be able to implement his
own idea ...

Only I found it not flexible enough.

Our Problem: We have an announcement list for campus network admnistrators and
an associated discussion list (for *interested* network administrators).
Usually, answers are directed to the discussion list and everyone is happy.

But sometimes, there are announcements like "We need 20 people who also buy
this to get a good price. If you would like to buy, answer me."

The answers obviously shouldn't go to the list. Network adminstrators aren't
any better at hand editing To: fields than anybody else. If you opt for not
stripping the original Reply-To: header, you will get the answers to the sender
*and* the list, also not what you want.

My idea would be to restructure the options in the following way:

DEFAULT_REPLY_GOES_TO_LIST:
# 0 - Reply-To: no address
# 1 - Reply-To: back to the list
# 2 - Reply-To: to an explicit value (reply_to_address)
# 3 - Reply-To: to sender of mail

DEFAULT_FIRST_STRIP_REPLY_TO
# 0 - merge
# 1 - override
# 2 - respect

For our case, I'd use values of "0" and "2".

I hope the meaning of "respect", "override" and "merge" is clear ...

Any ideas?

Jost
-- 
| Jost.Krieger+sig at ruhr-uni-bochum.de  Please help stamp out spam! |
| Postmaster, JAPH, resident answer machine    at RUB Comp. Center |
| Sincere words are not sweet, sweet words are not sincere.        |
|                                          Lao Tse, Tao Te King 81 |
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From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 16 16:48:40 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 07:48:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how can I forward messages without having it
	appearas an attachment?
In-Reply-To: <000601c5725c$857a4e30$6401a8c0@FRIED>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506160748400312d7b28200@msapiro>

rfried wrote:
>
>I moderate a list and want to forward a message from within 'pending
>requests'
>to another address that is another email list that we run.
>
>I have found out that the posting text went out as an attachment, with
>the
>body of the actual email text-less. Also the From: did not state the
>original sender of the posting but as 'mylistname-bounces'.
>
>So does anyone know if it's possible with a posting forwarded from
>one list to another to have it
>
>a) sent not as an attachment but with the text in the body of the email
>
>and
>
>b) contain a From: header with the sender's address and not a '-bounces'
>one

You can't do this directly from the admindb (pending requests) page.

How easy it is to do depends on the capabilities of your MUA (e-mail
client). First, you need a copy of the original message (only) which
can be extracted from the immediate notification to the moderator
(you) if you get immediate notifications, or extracted from the
message as forwarded to you (instead of the other list) from the
admindb interface, or if you are going to approve the message for the
original list, it can be the post you receive from the original list
after approval.

Then you need to 'redirect', 'resend' or 'bounce' that message to the
target list, and in this process or by pre-editing change the To:
address from the old list to the new so the message doesn't get held
for implicit destination, and maybe strip any subject prefix from the
subject.

Some MUAs make this very easy and some make it impossible. At worst,
you can edit the message with a text editor and send it to the new
list with the sendmail command or equivalent if you have access to
that.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 16 16:55:45 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 07:55:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pipermail+archives
In-Reply-To: <42B14B45.3080803@st.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506160755450187d7b28188@msapiro>

Jean-Philippe GIOLA wrote:
>
>On what is pipermail based on to make the coherence with the 
>representation of the archives ?
>i-e in order to know witch mail is a answer to another mail for the html 
>representation for having a "three" representation.

It uses the References: and/or the In-Reply-To: header

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 16 17:00:45 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 08:00:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Viewing 5xx errorred recipient emails
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAnIzqCXzsZ0ufGptm0/OQ28KAAAAQAAAA6Zg/DdmODUWfeXfnUZORmwEAAAAA@subzero5.yi.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506160800450000d7b280cd@msapiro>

Sub Zero wrote:
>
>Can I see a list of all 5xx recipients in python?

Once the bounce has been registered by bounce processing, the original
bounce message is discarded. The only ones you see are the one that
causes the initial disable and unrecognized ones assuming those
notifications are turned on.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 16 17:08:19 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 08:08:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Large list problem
In-Reply-To: <20050616124051.4CC1312733@smtp.ulm.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506160808190890d7b2842d@msapiro>

Chance Eppinette wrote:
>
>I am running Mailman 2.1.5 on a Solaris 2.8 SUN 280R (fully loaded).
>
>I have a number of lists but 1 in particular is giving me problems.  The
>list currently has about 14000 members of which about 1100 are disabled due
>to bounces.
>The problem seems to arise when a message is sent to the list (around every
>2-3 weeks).
>
>The CPU time for a python process jumps up to around 50% for an indetermined
>amount of time (> 24 hours).


Which python process (i.e. presumably one of the qrunners, but which
one)


>While the system is "working" on this list message, GUI access to the list
>is nearly impossible (can't login); while other lists seem to function OK.


The list is probably locked.


>Up to this point I have had to stop/kill all Mailman processes and then
>restart Mailman several times to bring things back to normal with the List
>service.
>The intended message being sent to the list does arrive in users mailboxes
>(which are worldwide).
>
>I believe the culprit to be a combination of managing the number of bounces
>due to the size of the list membership.


This doesn't seem likely.


>Also, we prefer that once a member has been disabled for 3 bounces, that it
>also be unsubscribed from the list.  This does seem to occur, but it seems
>to take forever to occur.  Like I said there are about 1100 addresses
>disabled right now.  However, they have yet to be removed.  It is like the
>system is waiting on something else to occur, but I don't know what.


It's waiting n weeks for the n weekly warning messages to be sent where
n is the bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings setting. It seems you want
this to be 0.

You might be interested in seeing what's in Mailman's bounce log.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 16 17:24:37 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 08:24:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Reply-To revisited
In-Reply-To: <20050616142354.GZ12232@ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506160824370296a3c8e26d@msapiro>

Jost Krieger wrote:
>
>My idea would be to restructure the options in the following way:
>
>DEFAULT_REPLY_GOES_TO_LIST:
># 0 - Reply-To: no address
># 1 - Reply-To: back to the list
># 2 - Reply-To: to an explicit value (reply_to_address)
># 3 - Reply-To: to sender of mail
>
>DEFAULT_FIRST_STRIP_REPLY_TO
># 0 - merge
># 1 - override
># 2 - respect
>
>For our case, I'd use values of "0" and "2".

Would you really? How would that be different from the current
reply_goes_to_list = Poster and first_strip_reply_to = No

I think I can understand your idea if you would use values of 1 and 2,
but it wouldn't work because of all the MUAs that unconditionally put
Reply-To: in the message when it's not different from From:

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 17 02:42:24 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:42:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I remove the Sender option?
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAnIzqCXzsZ0ufGptm0/OQ28KAAAAQAAAA32M8rjkgPUmoxo5b6UDHwwEAAAAA@subzero5.yi.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506161742240343339aaf8f@msapiro>

Sub Zero wrote:
>
>I have removed the "Sender" header from one of my lists and now I want to
>remove it from all my other lists too.  I don't know how I did that :( but I
>want to do the same for my other lists.  Can anyone point me to a right
>direction please?


I don't know. I only see two places in the code where the Sender:
header is manipulated. It is removed for anonymous lists (General
Options->anonymous_list = Yes), but it looks like SMTPDirect removes
it from all outgoing messages and puts in a "Sender:" with the
envelope sender (usually listname-bounces) address.

If this doesn't help, you could use bin/config_list to dump the
configuraton from the one list and from one of the others and then
diff the two to see what's different.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From diana.huang at majitek.com  Fri Jun 17 03:10:03 2005
From: diana.huang at majitek.com (Diana Huang)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:10:03 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] aliases assistant
References: <PC1740200506160718320953b27d7379@msapiro>
Message-ID: <007001c572d9$4acbff40$c000a8c0@Diana>

Hi Mark,

Pretty thanks. I followed your steps to change the perssion. 
/usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist works pretty well. After I create a list by 
using bin/newlist, /etc/mailman.aliases has aliases for that list. However, 
when I create a list in the web (http://mydomain.com/mailman/create), I got 
some errors (See the following).  And /etc/mailman.aliases doesn't have 
aliases for the list I created, but /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases file 
does have aliases for that list

My web server runs as 'www', so my /etc/sudoers file is like this

www All= NOPASSWD: /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases
mailman ALL=NOPASSWD: /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases

Is it still file permission problem? (looks like...but I did change the 
permission )

Thanks, Diana

 Traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
    main()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 55, in main
    process_request(doc, cgidata)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/create.py", line 226, in 
process_request
    sys.modules[modname].create(mlist, cgi=1)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 232, in create
    _update_maps()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 53, in _update_maps
    raise RuntimeError, msg % (acmd, status, errstr)
RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/bin/sudo /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases 
/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases (status: 1, Operation not permitted Python 
information:Variable Value sys.version 2.2.2 (#1, Feb 24 2003, 19:13:11) 
[GCC 3.2.2 20030222 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.2-4)]  sys.executable /usr/bin/python 
sys.prefix /usr  sys.exec_prefix /usr  sys.path /usr  sys.platform 
inux2  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Environment 
variables:Variable Value HTTP_ACCEPT 
text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5 
CONTENT_TYPE  application/x-www-form-urlencoded  HTTP_REFERER 
http://testbed.majitek.com/mailman/create  SERVER_SOFTWARE  Apache/1.3.19 
(Unix)  PYTHONPATH  /usr/local/mailman  SCRIPT_FILENAME 
/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/create  SERVER_ADMIN  root at testbed.magicrock.net 
SCRIPT_NAME  /mailman/create  SERVER_SIGNATURE  Apache/1.3.19 Server at 
testbed.majitek.com Port 80 REQUEST_METHOD  POST  HTTP_HOST 
testbed.majitek.com  HTTP_KEEP_ALIVE  300  SERVER_PROTOCOL  HTTP/1.1 
QUERY_STRING   REQUEST_URI  /mailman/create  CONTENT_LENGTH  132 
HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET  ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7  HTTP_USER_AGENT 
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.8) Gecko/20050511 
Firefox/1.0.4  HTTP_CONNECTION  keep-alive  SERVER_NAME  testbed.majitek.com 
REMOTE_PORT  1145  REMOTE_ADDR  192.168.0.192  HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE 
en-us,en;q=0.5  SERVER_PORT  80  GATEWAY_INTERFACE  CGI/1.1 
HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING  gzip,deflate  SERVER_ADDR  192.168.0.104 
DOCUMENT_ROOT  /usr/local/apache/share/htdocs 



From diana.huang at majitek.com  Fri Jun 17 03:33:05 2005
From: diana.huang at majitek.com (Diana Huang)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:33:05 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] aliases assistant
Message-ID: <008b01c572dc$82a2b500$c000a8c0@Diana>

Hi Mark,
>
> Pretty thanks. I followed your steps to change the perssion. 
> /usr/local/mailman/bin/newlist works pretty well. After I create a list by 
> using bin/newlist, /etc/mailman.aliases has aliases for that list. 
> However, when I create a list in the web 
> (http://mydomain.com/mailman/create), I got some errors (See the 
> following).  And /etc/mailman.aliases doesn't have aliases for the list I 
> created, but /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases file does have aliases for 
> that list
>
> My web server runs as 'www', so my /etc/sudoers file is like this
>
> www All= NOPASSWD: /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases
> mailman ALL=NOPASSWD: /usr/local/sbin/mailman.aliases

I fixed it. I checked httpd.conf and found my web server runs 'magicrock'. 
Doh..

Thanks, Diana 



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Jun 17 03:48:51 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 20:48:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Red Hat FHS packaging
In-Reply-To: <42B06340.3020400@axelrod.plus.com>
References: <PC1740200506141208270578d484f43d@msapiro>	
	<42AF4062.2020405@axelrod.plus.com>
	<p06200726bed508b4e8f5@[192.168.1.101]>	
	<42AFD345.1080101@axelrod.plus.com>
	<1118847426.10013.120.camel@chickadee.boston.redhat.com>
	<42B06340.3020400@axelrod.plus.com>
Message-ID: <p0620072ebed7db83526a@[192.168.1.101]>

At 6:20 PM +0100 2005-06-15, Andy Heath wrote:

>  Many open source software products provide small text
>  installation documentation files that explain what
>  is needed for particular platforms - for example
>  the XFree86 distributions used to (dunno if they
>  still do).  The answer "come look over here at
>  our product" doesn't cut it with me.  There is
>  mutual co-operation
>  and there is "come look over here and you won't
>  need anything else".  You seem to be displaying
>  the second.

	The Mailman project cannot maintain binary packages for every 
platform we support.  We provide the source code, and if others want 
to produce binary packages from that, that's up to them.  RedHat is 
doing exactly the same sort of thing that other vendors do in this 
respect.

	If vendors decide they want to create a binary package, they need 
to keep and maintain their own documentation on how to update the 
binary packages.  In this respect, RedHat does a much better job than 
some other vendors.


	If you're going to be running RedHat on your machines, then you 
need to know how RedHat handles their binary packages.  Your failure 
to fully understand this process is not the fault of RedHat, nor is 
it the fault of the Mailman project.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Jun 17 03:57:29 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 20:57:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Large list problem
In-Reply-To: <20050616124051.4CC1312733@smtp.ulm.edu>
References: <20050616124051.4CC1312733@smtp.ulm.edu>
Message-ID: <p0620072fbed7ddf8e5e2@[192.168.1.101]>

At 7:46 AM -0500 2005-06-16, Chance Eppinette wrote:

>  I believe the culprit to be a combination of managing the number of bounces
>  due to the size of the list membership.

	Check the FAQ at <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> and 
search for things like "performance" and "large".  I suspect you may 
be running into Python locking issues, but you may also be having 
some filesystem or disk subsystem problems.  A lot of discussion has 
occurred on the list regarding "large" mailing lists (e.g., those 
with 100k subscribers or more), and we've tried to encode this 
information in the FAQ, with links to good threads in the archives, 
etc....

	Before going too much further, I'd recommend checking the FAQ, 
searching the archives, etc....

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Jun 17 03:43:20 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 20:43:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Red Hat FHS packaging
In-Reply-To: <42AFF405.7050807@axelrod.plus.com>
References: <PC1740200506141208270578d484f43d@msapiro>
	<42AF4062.2020405@axelrod.plus.com>
	<p06200726bed508b4e8f5@[192.168.1.101]>
	<42AFD345.1080101@axelrod.plus.com>
	<873brkt2hj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<42AFF405.7050807@axelrod.plus.com>
Message-ID: <p0620072dbed7da8416a9@[192.168.1.101]>

At 10:25 AM +0100 2005-06-15, Andy Heath wrote:

>  Its customary when you interact with a community to learn
>  their language not expect them to learn yours.
>  What you suggest doesn't satisfy the requirement
>  I stated.

	If you're a RedHat user, then talking about SRPMs is precisely 
the right sort of thing for RedHat to do.  From what I can gather, 
you chose the OS first, then the application.  That would imply that 
you want to run RedHat in general, and that other applications could 
equally meet your needs.

	This doesn't do much for non-RedHat users, but then if you're 
going to be running RedHat, you need to learn how RedHat works.


	If you had chosen the application first and then come asked us, 
we could have given you some feedback on what OSes are well-known to 
work with Mailman, including the ones previously and currently in use 
at python.org, etc....

	You might still have chosen RedHat after that discussion, but you 
would hopefully have understood the problem a bit better, and had a 
better idea of where you need to go looking.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From jean-philippe.giola at st.com  Fri Jun 17 09:39:44 2005
From: jean-philippe.giola at st.com (Jean-Philippe GIOLA)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:39:44 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pipermail+archives
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200506160755450187d7b28188@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200506160755450187d7b28188@msapiro>
Message-ID: <42B27E40.9090808@st.com>

OK

I have seen in the list I use that these 2 headers are not all the times 
existing, even if the mail that has been sent is an answer.
Perhaps it depends of the MUA.

thanks

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Jean-Philippe GIOLA wrote:
>  
>
>>On what is pipermail based on to make the coherence with the 
>>representation of the archives ?
>>i-e in order to know witch mail is a answer to another mail for the html 
>>representation for having a "three" representation.
>>    
>>
>
>It uses the References: and/or the In-Reply-To: header
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
>  
>


-- 
Cordialement,
Jean-Philippe Giola - 6577




From cycling at axelrod.plus.com  Fri Jun 17 12:20:46 2005
From: cycling at axelrod.plus.com (Andy Heath)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:20:46 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Red Hat FHS packaging STOP
In-Reply-To: <p0620072dbed7da8416a9@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <PC1740200506141208270578d484f43d@msapiro>
	<42AF4062.2020405@axelrod.plus.com>
	<p06200726bed508b4e8f5@[192.168.1.101]>
	<42AFD345.1080101@axelrod.plus.com>
	<873brkt2hj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
	<42AFF405.7050807@axelrod.plus.com>
	<p0620072dbed7da8416a9@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <42B2A3FE.1070203@axelrod.plus.com>

Other users have requested this conversation stop
or move offline.  Some persons did mail
me offline in the same vein and I responded
essentially to say I could see no point
in continuing "I'm right, you are wrong"
games.

Please stop this conversation.  That I differ from
the perspective below is not a reason to try
and harrass by continuing a pointless conversation.

Stop.  Enough is enough.

andy

> At 10:25 AM +0100 2005-06-15, Andy Heath wrote:
> 
>>  Its customary when you interact with a community to learn
>>  their language not expect them to learn yours.
>>  What you suggest doesn't satisfy the requirement
>>  I stated.
> 
> 
>     If you're a RedHat user, then talking about SRPMs is precisely the 
> right sort of thing for RedHat to do.  From what I can gather, you chose 
> the OS first, then the application.  That would imply that you want to 
> run RedHat in general, and that other applications could equally meet 
> your needs.
> 
>     This doesn't do much for non-RedHat users, but then if you're going 
> to be running RedHat, you need to learn how RedHat works.
> 
> 
>     If you had chosen the application first and then come asked us, we 
> could have given you some feedback on what OSes are well-known to work 
> with Mailman, including the ones previously and currently in use at 
> python.org, etc....
> 
>     You might still have chosen RedHat after that discussion, but you 
> would hopefully have understood the problem a bit better, and had a 
> better idea of where you need to go looking.
> 


-- 
andy
___________________
Andy Heath
a.k.heath at shu.ac.uk


From mrei0999 at uni-hildesheim.de  Fri Jun 17 12:54:00 2005
From: mrei0999 at uni-hildesheim.de (Meike Reichle)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:54:00 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] whitelisting mailman adresses
Message-ID: <42B2ABC8.8010002@uni-hildesheim.de>

Hi all,

I have a few problems whitelisting mailman addresses that have to 
contain wildcards (like -bounces+<something>) in my exim system. This 
got me wondering, at what point these are adresses actually needed? I 
always thought they'd be used for confirmation when subscribing but 
those come from -request and have the confirmation code in the subject.

So, in what cases are these kinds of sender addresses used?

Regards,
Meike

-- 
Meike Reichle - University of Hildesheim

mail:	mrei0999 at uni-hildesheim.de
www:	www.uni-hildesheim.de/~mrei0999


From sythos at sythos.net  Fri Jun 17 13:37:04 2005
From: sythos at sythos.net (Sythos)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:37:04 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unofficial patch for pipermail
Message-ID: <20050617113704.GA2873@sythos.net>

Hi all
somebody cant ell me if there is (google&sf say not) a patch to let
pipermail send (via sendmail or mailx) a reply to a post on a private
archive? I'm not a coder so I don't know if it is possible, but the data
"user" (comprensive off email) is already present... so I think it isn't
too much difficult (for a coder:) )

Regards	
	Sythos

-- 

Sythos - http://www.sythos.net
  ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
  /\                        - against M$ attachments


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 17 15:30:46 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 06:30:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pipermail+archives
In-Reply-To: <42B27E40.9090808@st.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506170630460484f4fe4c72@msapiro>

Jean-Philippe GIOLA wrote:
>
>I have seen in the list I use that these 2 headers are not all the times 
>existing, even if the mail that has been sent is an answer.
>Perhaps it depends of the MUA.

Yes, it depends on the MUA. The standard says these headers SHOULD be
included, not that they MUST be, so it is not wrong to omit them and
not all MUAs include them.

You will see in the pipermail archives of this list for example that
meaasges which contain neither of these headers are not threaded to
prior messages with the same subject even though the content shows
they are clearly replies.

You will also see totally separate threads merged into one in the
archive because someone begins a new thread by 'replying' to a prior
message.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Jun 17 15:54:56 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 06:54:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] whitelisting mailman adresses
In-Reply-To: <42B2ABC8.8010002@uni-hildesheim.de>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506170654560187f13645b3@msapiro>

Meike Reichle wrote:
>
>I have a few problems whitelisting mailman addresses that have to 
>contain wildcards (like -bounces+<something>) in my exim system. This 
>got me wondering, at what point these are adresses actually needed? I 
>always thought they'd be used for confirmation when subscribing but 
>those come from -request and have the confirmation code in the subject.
>
>So, in what cases are these kinds of sender addresses used?

See the discussion of the VERP_* variables in Defaults.py

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From johanfo at ohman.no  Fri Jun 17 17:19:43 2005
From: johanfo at ohman.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Johan_Fredrik_=D8hman?=)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 17:19:43 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virtual file confusion
Message-ID: <20050617151918.B478FBDC45@smtp.metroic.no>

Can somebody explain to me in other words what the problem with:

FROM DOCUMENTATION:
If in your virtual-dom1 file, you've got the following lines:

    dom1.ain  IGNORE
    @dom1.ain @mail.dom1.ain

   this tells Postfix to deliver anything addressed to dom1.ain to the
   same mailbox at mail.dom1.com, its default destination.

   In this case you would not include dom1.ain in
   POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS because otherwise Mailman will write
   entries for mailing lists in the dom1.ain domain as

    mylist at dom1.ain         mylist
    mylist-request at dom1.ain mylist-request
    # and so on...

   The more specific entries trump your more general entries, thus
   breaking the delivery of any dom1.ain mailing list.


Because, I don't see the problem. Because in both cases all mail will be
delivered locally.  Either through @mail.dom1.ain (default) or mylist-* if
it "hits" a more specific name in the virtual file.

--
JFO



From morphine at digitalmente.net  Fri Jun 17 17:45:12 2005
From: morphine at digitalmente.net (Bruno Ferreira)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:45:12 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple subscription requests and reminders
Message-ID: <42B2F008.40407@digitalmente.net>

    Hi!

    I have a mailman 2.1.5 installation on a FC1 Plesk-administrated 
server. The problem I'm having is that subscription confirmation e-mails 
arrive in duplicate or quadruplicate (!!!!). Plus, subscription 
reminders come in even larger quantities. The "subscribe" log shows 
apparently independent subscription requests, so I'm kinda stumped on 
what's causing this. The MTA is qmail and seems to be working fine for 
several domains hosted on this machine. Has anyone had this problem, and 
what can/should I look for as far as troubleshooting goes?

    -- Bruno Ferreira
---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]



From middlelord at hotmail.com  Fri Jun 17 17:38:49 2005
From: middlelord at hotmail.com (SAA)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:38:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] customizing the main listinfo page
Message-ID: <BAY101-DAV7681D1E93A9D1C51198ACD7F40@phx.gbl>

Hello, I was wondering how can I customize the header for the main

 

http://listserver.mdpls.net/mailman/listinfo   so that I can put my company
name and logo? I was able to customize some other pages like the info for
the list page. Thank a mill for all your help

 

 

Scott A.

www.mdpls.org <http://www.mdpls.org/> 

 

 

 



From lists05 at equinephotoart.com  Fri Jun 17 17:56:45 2005
From: lists05 at equinephotoart.com (JC Dill)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:56:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pipermail+archives
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200506170630460484f4fe4c72@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200506170630460484f4fe4c72@msapiro>
Message-ID: <42B2F2BD.3070207@equinephotoart.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Jean-Philippe GIOLA wrote:
> 
>>I have seen in the list I use that these 2 headers are not all the times 
>>existing, even if the mail that has been sent is an answer.
>>Perhaps it depends of the MUA.
> 
> Yes, it depends on the MUA. The standard says these headers SHOULD be
> included, not that they MUST be, so it is not wrong to omit them and
> not all MUAs include them.

This will also happen most of the time when the reply user is on digest, 
because the digest has no reference header to the single article they 
are replying to.  The exception may be if they are getting the digest 
type that their email client can explode back into individual articles - 
and if Mailman includes the reference header with the individual 
articles.  Since I don't "do" digests, I don't know what the details are 
with this type of digest and if threading works in this case or not. 
Someone who knows more about this type of digest may be able to give 
input on if it retains the references header for each post.

jc


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Jun 17 20:28:00 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:28:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] unofficial patch for pipermail
In-Reply-To: <20050617113704.GA2873@sythos.net>
References: <20050617113704.GA2873@sythos.net>
Message-ID: <p06200742bed8c6595cdf@[192.168.1.101]>

At 1:37 PM +0200 2005-06-17, Sythos wrote:

>  somebody cant ell me if there is (google&sf say not) a patch to let
>  pipermail send (via sendmail or mailx) a reply to a post on a private
>  archive?

	Pipermail is an archiver.  It doesn't send mail.  It archives 
mail that is sent to it.

	If you're wanting a full-blown webmail/forum system integrated 
into Mailman, then see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.026.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Jun 17 20:31:37 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:31:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple subscription requests and reminders
In-Reply-To: <42B2F008.40407@digitalmente.net>
References: <42B2F008.40407@digitalmente.net>
Message-ID: <p06200743bed8c6fd833d@[192.168.1.101]>

At 4:45 PM +0100 2005-06-17, Bruno Ferreira wrote:

>      I have a mailman 2.1.5 installation on a FC1 Plesk-administrated
>  server.

	Please note the Mailman FAQ Wizard entry at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.015.htp>.

>          The problem I'm having is that subscription confirmation e-mails
>  arrive in duplicate or quadruplicate (!!!!). Plus, subscription
>  reminders come in even larger quantities. The "subscribe" log shows
>  apparently independent subscription requests, so I'm kinda stumped on
>  what's causing this.

	What exactly is in your MTA logs?  What is in your Mailman logs? 
Can you show us some examples of duplicate messages, with all the 
headers intact?

>                       The MTA is qmail and seems to be working fine for
>  several domains hosted on this machine. Has anyone had this problem, and
>  what can/should I look for as far as troubleshooting goes?

	For qmail-related items, you'd need to use mailing lists, FAQs, 
etc... related to that MTA.  The issue right now is that we need to 
help you figure out where the problem lies.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From c123456789 at gmail.com  Fri Jun 17 21:03:24 2005
From: c123456789 at gmail.com (Jean Touma)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 22:03:24 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] assistance
Message-ID: <018501c5736f$3fae7890$5b505a64@windows489dfc5>

Dear Sir,

I am running Mailman 2.1.5p1 on my site and it is working fine but I need to send the messages to a personalized email address and not a bulk email address which is the listname at thehostingerver of my list my list name is: emaillist my hosting server is mydomain.com so all my messages go to emaillist at mydomain.com I don't want that I want all emails go to user1 at domain1 user2 at domain2 etc... I know how to personalize a header and a footer but how can I personalize the email address?
Thank you in advance for your help and support

regards


From robshep at informatics.bangor.ac.uk  Sun Jun 19 17:39:01 2005
From: robshep at informatics.bangor.ac.uk (Rob Shepherd)
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 16:39:01 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Old config data
Message-ID: <42B59195.5030001@informatics.bangor.ac.uk>

Dear Mailman'ers

Is there any way I can extract the config variables

--with-mail-gid and
--with-cgi-gid

from my setup. anything, nums or strings...

I lost my old building script for 2.1.5

2.1.5 worked pretty much fine, and i didn't have to rebuild it to get the 
mail/web gids right so this time round I just picked the options I thought I 
picked last time.

postfix runs as 'postfix'
apache2 runs as 'apache2' so this time I ran

./configure --with-cgi-gid=apache2

but I get
command failed: /usr/.../postalias /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases (status: 1, 
Not owner)

After trying to add my first virtual list and getting..... my data dir 
subsequently like this........neither db file were (re)generated

mailman at skyflash:~/data >ls -la
total 94
drwxrwsr-x   2 mailman  mailman      512 Jun 19 15:54 .
drwxrwsr-x  20 mailman  mailman      512 Jun 19 15:03 ..
-rw-r-----   1 mailman  mailman       41 Jun 19 15:39 adm.pw
-rw-rw----   1 mailman  mailman     2039 Jun 19 15:54 aliases
-rw-r-----   1 mailman  mailman    24576 Jun 19 15:24 aliases.db
-rw-r--r--   1 mailman  mailman       10 Jun 19 15:12 last_mailman_version
-rw-rw----   1 mailman  mailman        5 Jun 19 15:29 master-qrunner.pid
-rw-r--r--   1 mailman  mailman    14110 Jun 19 15:03 sitelist.cfg
-rw-rw----   1 apache2  mailman     1275 Jun 19 15:54 virtual-mailman


Any insight to the above appreciated

Regarding the item in the FAQ about adding apache to the postfix group, I 
disregarded this because it all worked in 2.1.5 without this addition...

ps. uname -a
SunOS skyflash 5.9 Generic_117171-15 sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-5_10

Rob

-- 
/**
  *	Rob Shepherd,
  *	University Of Wales, Bangor,
  */

From robshep at informatics.bangor.ac.uk  Sun Jun 19 18:19:02 2005
From: robshep at informatics.bangor.ac.uk (Rob Shepherd)
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 17:19:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Old config data
In-Reply-To: <E9275310-241B-4BA9-B56F-42F20BC95817@memphis.edu>
References: <42B59195.5030001@informatics.bangor.ac.uk>
	<E9275310-241B-4BA9-B56F-42F20BC95817@memphis.edu>
Message-ID: <42B59AF6.5020503@informatics.bangor.ac.uk>

Dan Phillips wrote:
 > Do you mean by this that you don't have the source directory from  which
 > it was built?

Cheers, yes source gone, only an old /usr/local/mailman (2.1.5) off tape to compare

 > As for the error, know that aliases.db does need  to be group
 > writable, which your is not.

I guess some bit of my setup is bust as postalias is supposed to make those 
files, and my old setup which worked looked like

drwxrwsr-x   2 9026     2005         439 Apr 13 18:14 .
drwxrwsr-x  20 root     2005         853 Apr 13 16:37 ..
-rw-r-----   1 9026     2005          41 Apr 12 23:09 adm.pw
-rw-rw----   1 9026     2005        1973 Apr 13 18:14 aliases
-rw-r-----   1 9026     2005       24576 Apr 13 18:14 aliases.db
-rw-r--r--   1 9026     2005          10 Apr 12 21:28 last_mailman_version
-rw-rw----   1 9026     2005           6 Apr 12 22:48 master-qrunner.pid
-rw-r--r--   1 9026     2005       14110 Apr 12 21:21 sitelist.cfg
-rw-rw----   1 9026     2005        1209 Apr 13 18:14 virtual-mailman
-rw-r--r--   1 9026     2005       24576 Apr 13 18:14 virtual-mailman.db

mailman:mailman BTW

I actually found cgi-gid by tracing the build process and then observing the 
output of `strings create`

apache2 shows up in my old version and I also see no trace of postfix, (or in 
any other bins in bin)

so my config process is same as 2.1.5 but something is not quite right still...

Cheers

Rob



-- 
/**
  *	Rob Shepherd,
  *	University Of Wales, Bangor,
  *	School of Informatics,
  *	Dean Street,
  *	Bangor,
  *	Gwynedd, UK     /\  /\
  *	LL57 1UT       /  \/  \ /\
  *	--------------/---/    \--\----
  *	
  *	robshep at informatics.bangor.ac.uk
  *
  *	+44 (0) 1248 38 27
  */

From ashley at pcraft.com  Sun Jun 19 18:35:53 2005
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 10:35:53 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Install errors
Message-ID: <42B59EE9.6090506@pcraft.com>


I'm installing mailman 2.1.6 on a fresh system running FC4 (fresh being 
that it was just installed.) Configure and make went without a problem, 
but when I went to install it, my screen got filled with many many lines 
of this:

src/_japanese_codecs.c: In function ???encode_euc_jp???:
src/_japanese_codecs.c:147: warning: pointer targets in assignment 
differ in signedness
src/_japanese_codecs.c: In function ???encode_shift_jis???:
src/_japanese_codecs.c:381: warning: pointer targets in assignment 
differ in signedness
src/_japanese_codecs.c: In function ???encode_ms932???:
....

In file included from src/_koco.c:49:
src/_koco_ksc5601.h:1493: warning: pointer targets in initialization 
differ in signedness
src/_koco_ksc5601.h:1493: warning: pointer targets in initialization 
differ in signedness
src/_koco_ksc5601.h:1493: warning: pointer targets in initialization 
differ in signedness
src/_koco_ksc5601.h:1493: warning: pointer targets in initialization 
differ in signedness
src/_koco_ksc5601.h:1494: warning: pointer targets in initialization 
differ in signedness
....

In file included from src/_koco.c:50:
src/_koco_uhc.h:1613: warning: pointer targets in initialization differ 
in signedness
src/_koco_uhc.h:1613: warning: pointer targets in initialization differ 
in signedness
src/_koco_uhc.h:1613: warning: pointer targets in initialization differ 
in signedness
src/_koco_uhc.h:1613: warning: pointer targets in initialization differ 
in signedness
src/_koco_uhc.h:1614: warning: pointer targets in initialization differ 
in signedness


It is a very very long list of lines like that. Someone care to explain? 
Is it just because of the Japanese characters?

-- 
H | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere.
  +--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  IT Director / SysAdmin / WebSmith             .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Imaging                       .     3550 Arapahoe Ave. #6
  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A. 





From robshep at informatics.bangor.ac.uk  Sun Jun 19 22:54:31 2005
From: robshep at informatics.bangor.ac.uk (Rob Shepherd)
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 21:54:31 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Still installation woes
Message-ID: <42B5DB87.7070605@informatics.bangor.ac.uk>

I can't believe this is giving me so much trouble.

mailman 2.1.6, solaris9 UltraSPARC 64bit

Some basic questions

I am running postfix as group "postfix" although mailman

*without* --with-mail-gid=postfix (imlies --with-mail-gid=mailman right?)

Mail comes through fine... is this OK?

I am running apache 2.0.52 as group  "apache2" and mailman

*with* --with-cgi-gid=apache2

Although if I want the web interface to work I must.....

su - mailman
cd /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin
chmod g+s *

I can't decide whether these files should have been like this already??
check_perms found no errors!! but everything I've read suggest that these are 
wrapped by the code which does the bale out if the calling gid is not correct

from a fresh install I have no binary that is setgid mailman
only directories

Is the installation broken? what other files need to be setgid?

/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman is *not* setgid but postfix can pipe to that OK,

Also, should I end up with "any" files being owned by apache2?  after using the 
web interface to add a list I found that aliases, aliases.db and 
virtual-mailman.db were still the original ownership but virtual-mailman had 
been claimed ownership by apache2.... is this right,

If anyone can provide a....

`ls -laR`

of /usr/local/mailman from as clean an installation as possible

to robshep atttt informatics d0t bangor.ac.uk , it would be most appreciated.

Cheers

Rob
-- 
/**
  *	Rob Shepherd,
  *	University Of Wales, Bangor,
  *	School of Informatics,
  *	Dean Street,
  *	Bangor,
  *	Gwynedd, UK     /\  /\
  *	LL57 1UT       /  \/  \ /\
  *	--------------/---/    \--\----
  *	
  *	robshep at informatics.bangor.ac.uk
  *
  *	+44 (0) 1248 38 27
  */

From gawie at gam.co.za  Mon Jun 20 10:43:48 2005
From: gawie at gam.co.za (GamCo - Gawie Marais)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:43:48 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exim + Mailman + Secondary MX
Message-ID: <20050620084349.0A0231E4014@bag.python.org>

Hi,

We have a server doing Secondary MX for a stack of domains as well as relay
for a stack of ip addresses.

We installed and configured Mailman as per the installation instructions and
all works great but we get a Relay Access Denied error when we try and send
mail to recipients on domains not listed in the domainlist relay_to_domains
entry in Exim.

We use the following entries on Exim to allow the sending of mail to the
domains we do secondary MX hosting for as well as the hosts we allow
relaying from through our server :-


domainlist relay_to_domains = /usr/local/etc/exim/relay_domains
hostlist relay_from_hosts = /usr/local/etc/exim/host_relay


If we take out the entries on the domainlist relay_to_domains ,, then
everything works great except that anyone can then relay to any domain
making the server a potential open relay.

Has anyone got some idea to run this configuration correctly ??







Regards

Gawie J Marais
 




From jean-philippe.giola at st.com  Mon Jun 20 14:52:04 2005
From: jean-philippe.giola at st.com (Jean-Philippe GIOLA)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:52:04 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] why txt files ??
Message-ID: <42B6BBF4.60107@st.com>

Hi all!

I want to know why mailman developpers have choosen to store mails in 
txt files and not in a database like a forum ??

reguards

-- 
Jean-Philippe Giola - 6577




From jdennis at redhat.com  Mon Jun 20 17:26:48 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:26:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Old config data
In-Reply-To: <42B59195.5030001@informatics.bangor.ac.uk>
References: <42B59195.5030001@informatics.bangor.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1119281208.6022.31.camel@chickadee.boston.redhat.com>

On Sun, 2005-06-19 at 16:39 +0100, Rob Shepherd wrote:
> Dear Mailman'ers
> 
> Is there any way I can extract the config variables
> 
> --with-mail-gid and
> --with-cgi-gid
> 
> from my setup. anything, nums or strings...

You can run strings on the wrapper programs, mail/mailman and anything
in cgi-bin.

> I lost my old building script for 2.1.5
> 
> 2.1.5 worked pretty much fine, and i didn't have to rebuild it to get the 
> mail/web gids right so this time round I just picked the options I thought I 
> picked last time.
> 
> postfix runs as 'postfix'
> apache2 runs as 'apache2' so this time I ran
> 
> ./configure --with-cgi-gid=apache2
> 
> but I get
> command failed: /usr/.../postalias /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases (status: 1, 
> Not owner)
> 
> After trying to add my first virtual list and getting..... my data dir 
> subsequently like this........neither db file were (re)generated

I suspect what is biting you is that postfix has a feature whereby
postalias runs as the user owning the alias file, this is independent of
--with-mail-gid and --with-cgi-gid.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From ehowman at verizon.net  Mon Jun 20 17:42:26 2005
From: ehowman at verizon.net (Eric Howell)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:42:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restrict Posting to individual users
Message-ID: <BEDC5C22.5EF8%ehowman@verizon.net>

I have several lists available on a Mac OS X Server (Mailman 2.1.4) I can?t
figure out how to set the software (using the GUI) to ensure that only a
single user is permitted to post a message for delivery. There are several
hundred members on the list, but I want every message to be held for
approval. I think I?ve set it as such, but messages from members still get
delivered. Thanks.


From jdennis at redhat.com  Mon Jun 20 17:43:06 2005
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:43:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Still installation woes
In-Reply-To: <42B5DB87.7070605@informatics.bangor.ac.uk>
References: <42B5DB87.7070605@informatics.bangor.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <1119282186.6022.46.camel@chickadee.boston.redhat.com>

On Sun, 2005-06-19 at 21:54 +0100, Rob Shepherd wrote:
> I can't believe this is giving me so much trouble.
> 
> mailman 2.1.6, solaris9 UltraSPARC 64bit
> 
> Some basic questions
> 
> I am running postfix as group "postfix" although mailman
> 
> *without* --with-mail-gid=postfix (imlies --with-mail-gid=mailman right?)
> 
> Mail comes through fine... is this OK?
> 
> I am running apache 2.0.52 as group  "apache2" and mailman
> 
> *with* --with-cgi-gid=apache2
> 
> Although if I want the web interface to work I must.....
> 
> su - mailman
> cd /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin
> chmod g+s *
> 
> I can't decide whether these files should have been like this already??
> check_perms found no errors!! but everything I've read suggest that these are 
> wrapped by the code which does the bale out if the calling gid is not correct

You are correct, the files in mailman/cgi-bin and mailman/mail must be
group owned by mailman and be setgid.

The Makefiles generated by ./configure should have done this when you
performed a "make install".

Take a look at mailman/cgi-bin/Makefile and see what it's doing to set
group ownership and the "sticky bit" (e.g. setgid). Last time I looked
at that code I seem to recall wondering if the embedded commands might
not be fully portable, something I fixed in patch. If memory serves me
correctly the Makefiles were incorrectly relying on the inheritence of
the setgid bit of the parent directory (in other words any file
installed into a directory that is setgid takes on the setgid property).
This is true of many UNIX style systems, but NOT Solaris. I also seem to
recall that the Makefile only sets setgid on the directory which is
consistent with your observation. Once again this is not portable to
Solaris. I thought I submitted a patch for this to Source Forge a year
or two ago but I confess my memory is fuzzy.

You could also trying running "make install" in either the mail or
cgi-bin directories and observing what it does or if any errors or
warning occur.

> from a fresh install I have no binary that is setgid mailman
> only directories
> 
> Is the installation broken? what other files need to be setgid?

The minimum is cgi-bin/* and mail/mailman.

> 
> /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman is *not* setgid but postfix can pipe to that OK,
> 
> Also, should I end up with "any" files being owned by apache2?  after using the 
> web interface to add a list I found that aliases, aliases.db and 
> virtual-mailman.db were still the original ownership but virtual-mailman had 
> been claimed ownership by apache2.... is this right,

Sounds dubious to me, but I'd have to go back and look at the code that
generates/modifies this file.


-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From eppinette at ulm.edu  Mon Jun 20 18:14:09 2005
From: eppinette at ulm.edu (Chance Eppinette)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:14:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] QRUNNER processes running high on CPU rates
Message-ID: <20050620160803.06EF012708@smtp.ulm.edu>

Hello,

I am still having problems with a list which has about 13,000 subscribers.
The system seems to be overwhelmed by bounce processing.  I am running
Mailman 2.1.5 on a Solaris 2.8 SunFire -280R.
The CPU rate is hovering around 45% for the qrunner bounce process.
The list has purged out about 1100 disabled subscribers over this weekend,
but for some reason is still churning away about nothing - it seems.

I have tried to stop and restart the Mailman services but that takes extra
steps as well...
"S98mailman stop" doesn't kill all Mailman processes.  I have to kill them
manually and this is after waiting up to 10 minutes or so for S98mailman.

Also, while the qrunner process is running high CPU rates, we can't login to
this specific list via the web interface.
Is it possible I have a corrupted Mailman installation or something?


Chance Eppinette
Technology Support Manager
ULM Computing Center
eppinette at ulm.edu
318-342-5021 (phone)
318-342-5018 (fax)


From cpz at tuunq.com  Mon Jun 20 18:23:34 2005
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 09:23:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] QRUNNER processes running high on CPU rates
In-Reply-To: <20050620160803.06EF012708@smtp.ulm.edu> from Chance Eppinette at
	"Jun 20, 2005 11:14:09 am"
Message-ID: <20050620162334.C2E487AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Chance Eppinette wrote:

> The CPU rate is hovering around 45% for the qrunner bounce process.
> The list has purged out about 1100 disabled subscribers over this weekend,
> but for some reason is still churning away about nothing - it seems.

Clearing the member list won't affect what's already queued up for delivery.
You either have to live with it for a few days or manually clear the queue.
(IIRC, this is as simple as deleting the files in the queue directory. See the FAQ.)

z!


From BPantejo at citco.com  Mon Jun 20 18:23:29 2005
From: BPantejo at citco.com (Pantejo, Barbara                FTL)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:23:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users]  Cleanup From: and CC:
Message-ID: <69654C1963C8F64FA560BCC6ECD12B3A0373C6C7@FTL1MSEX01.citco.com>

I just set up a new mailing list and sent a test email (see below). I was
wondering how to change From: information...I would like the entry in the
CC: field (testlist at listhost.test.com) placed in the From: field and have
CC: field empty. How do I configure this?

From: testlist-bounces+bpantejo=test.com at listhost.test.com
[mailto:testlist-bounces+bpantejo=test.com at listhost.test.com] On Behalf Of
testlist at listhost.test.com
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 11:55 AM
To: bpantejo at test.com
Cc: testlist at listhost.test.com
Subject: Test # 3

Thanks you for your help, 
Barbara 



From robshep at informatics.bangor.ac.uk  Mon Jun 20 18:30:21 2005
From: robshep at informatics.bangor.ac.uk (Rob Shepherd)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:30:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Still installation woes
In-Reply-To: <1119282186.6022.46.camel@chickadee.boston.redhat.com>
References: <42B5DB87.7070605@informatics.bangor.ac.uk>
	<1119282186.6022.46.camel@chickadee.boston.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <42B6EF1D.3050304@informatics.bangor.ac.uk>

John Dennis wrote:
> On Sun, 2005-06-19 at 21:54 +0100, Rob Shepherd wrote:
> 
>>I can't believe this is giving me so much trouble.

fixed and working now.... Although I can't work out what I actually did 
different.... just plodding through the install script once more...

/usr/local/mailman is now owned root:mailman instead of mailman:mailman but I 
can't see that making a difference if the perms are coreect.


thanks to those that lended a helping hand.....

One further thing though,

I ran genalias and then added the hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases to postfix,

the next stage informed me to add hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/mailman-virtual 
in the case where I am running virtual domain lists. which I am....with the 
domains in postfix already running and configured

but this db did not yet exist so postfix/smtpd flipped out....

After the sucessful installation with proper perms on the right files I then 
tried to add a virtual list via web, however the perms had come up wrong on

/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases.db as -rw-r--r-- mailman:mailman so apache 
flipped out too.... as it couldn't write the db with group mailman...

to work round this I....

bin/rmlist mylist
touch data/aliases data/aliases.db data/virtual-mailman data/virtual-mailman.db
chmod 660 data/aliases*
chmod 660 data/virtual-mailman*

Then postfix and apache2 were happy.

So can genaliases or the install script not make an empty virtual-mailman file 
and assoc' db in addition to the standard aliases files....

I suspect it boils down to umask for the associated users, but it will always be 
mailman doing the genaliases to begin with. It's not much wasted space for 
people not using virtual stuff and it makes the initialisation happier for those 
that do...

shall I submit an RFE or bug for this....

Cheers

Rob

-- 
/**
  *	Rob Shepherd,
  *	University Of Wales, Bangor,
  *	+44 (0) 1248 38 27
  */

From ashley at pcraft.com  Mon Jun 20 18:29:44 2005
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:29:44 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sendmail smrsh + multiple mailman
Message-ID: <42B6EEF8.1000200@pcraft.com>


    I have a bit of an odd one here.  I have multiple mailman 
installations on one machine (for reasons we won't detail here) as follows:

    ~mailman/<host1_list>/<mailman install for one specific hostname>
    ~mailman/<host2_list>/<mailman install for another specific hostname>
    etc.

    When e-mail for test at host1_list arrives, it goes into the 
appropriate folder and does what Mailman does best.  The same for 
test at host_2, etc., etc.  (this setup allows me to have the same list 
name across multiple domains, behaving as individual lists)

    The problem I'm running into now is sendmail's smrsh.  I can copy 
the wrapper from one of those hosts into sendmail smrsh's folder, 
however it will only work for that one host installation.  It won't work 
for the next.  And since all the wrappers are called 'mailman', 
obviously I can't copy all of them in the same (smrsh) folder.

    So, my question, or questions:
       a) Is there an easy solution to this where smrsh will work?
       b) If not, can the 'mailman' wrapper be renamed?
          (this of course means aliases also get adjusted accordingly)

-- 
H | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere.
  +--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  IT Director / SysAdmin / WebSmith             .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Imaging                       .     3550 Arapahoe Ave. #6
  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A. 





From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jun 20 20:12:00 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 13:12:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restrict Posting to individual users
In-Reply-To: <BEDC5C22.5EF8%ehowman@verizon.net>
References: <BEDC5C22.5EF8%ehowman@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <p0620075ebedcb6e1bdd8@[192.168.1.101]>

At 11:42 AM -0400 2005-06-20, Eric Howell wrote:

>  I have several lists available on a Mac OS X Server (Mailman 2.1.4) I can't
>  figure out how to set the software (using the GUI) to ensure that only a
>  single user is permitted to post a message for delivery.

	So, you haven't gone to the FAQ Wizard page at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> and you haven't read FAQ 
3.11?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jun 20 20:06:08 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 13:06:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exim + Mailman + Secondary MX
In-Reply-To: <20050620084349.0A0231E4014@bag.python.org>
References: <20050620084349.0A0231E4014@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <p0620075cbedcb5ee84e2@[192.168.1.101]>

At 10:43 AM +0200 2005-06-20, GamCo - Gawie Marais wrote:

>  If we take out the entries on the domainlist relay_to_domains ,, then
>  everything works great except that anyone can then relay to any domain
>  making the server a potential open relay.
>
>  Has anyone got some idea to run this configuration correctly ??

	This sounds like an Exim problem, and you would need to use their 
mailing lists, newsgroups, FAQs, etc... to help you resolve this 
issue.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From johanfo at ohman.no  Tue Jun 21 09:01:35 2005
From: johanfo at ohman.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Johan_Fredrik_=D8hman?=)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:01:35 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message substitution
Message-ID: <20050621070106.1BA80B67BA@smtp.metroic.no>

Is it possible to inclue %(user_optionsurl)s in the body of a message, and
make Mailman dynamically replace it?  I know it is possible with header and
footer.

 

--
JFO

 <mailto:johanfo at ohman>  

 



From sean at sweetbourbon.com  Tue Jun 21 14:08:37 2005
From: sean at sweetbourbon.com (Sean)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 08:08:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] privacy alert
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005061516305604842d240f9c@msapiro>
References: <PC17402005061516305604842d240f9c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0506210804460.18053@seyyav.pair.com>

Thanks Mark.

In general, I think this would be useful information to include in the
source to help system administrators block offending IP addresses from the
servers.  Any thoughts about this, pro or con, before I file an RFE?

Sean


On Wed, 15 Jun 2005, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Sean wrote:
> >
> >I was unable to find a template for the privacy alerts that Mailman sends
> >out when an attempt is made to subscribe an address that is already
> >subscribe to the list.
>
> That's because it's not a template.
>
> >Where is text that Mailman uses to generate these
> >messages?
>
>
> It is coded directly in Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py
>
>
> >I would like to edit the text to include the IP address that made the
> >subscribe attempt like it is include in the verify.txt.
>
>
> You can edit the text in the above module. I think you can use
> %(remote)s in this text to get the IP address.
>
> If you are concerned about languages other than English, you also have
> to edit the corresponding messages/<language>/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po
> and then regenerate the corresponding mailman.mo file using
> bin/msgfmt.py.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
>


From c123456789 at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 14:49:02 2005
From: c123456789 at gmail.com (Jean Touma)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:49:02 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] personolized email address
Message-ID: <006b01c5765f$9d5485a0$5b505a64@windows489dfc5>

Hello all,

Actually i do know how to personolize the header and the footer of the messages through none digest option but i didn't find how to personolize the email address sent to, most of the email filters are rejecting the messages or transferring them to the junk and bulk email folders and the only way to get rid of that is to presonolise the email address in stead of sending all emails to list at mydomain.com it should be going to subsrciberemail at hisdomain.com, subsrciberemail1 at hisdomain.com, subsrciberemail2 at hisdomain.com, subsrciberemail3 at hisdomain.com etc... i am using mailman 2.1.5 thank you in advance

From c123456789 at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 14:52:48 2005
From: c123456789 at gmail.com (Jean Touma)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:52:48 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] character errors
Message-ID: <00a901c57660$24de8cf0$5b505a64@windows489dfc5>

hello all,

i am using the english language and all messages go using plain text using english font as well and some email addesses bounced and the bounced message says "The user does not accept email in non-Western (non-Latin) character sets."
any help? thx 
PS I am using mailman 2.1.5


From macbantam at ntlworld.com  Tue Jun 21 15:37:21 2005
From: macbantam at ntlworld.com (PeteBell)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:37:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bouncing
Message-ID: <9DEB82D0-AAB1-4E0C-A84D-7DD23EADF1EC@ntlworld.com>

Hi.

I am running a Mailman email list, but do NOT have access to the  
installation of Mailman, as it is shared server-wide where I am hosted.

I know all about the system of "bounce scores" and deletion from the  
list for perpetual bouncers, but what I need to know is...

Every so often I get a message, as list admin, that soemone has been  
"removed" from the list (NOT "unsubscribed", but "removed").

1. Does this mean they have been deleted because of persistent bounces?

2. Is there a way to get a report sent to me by the Mailman software  
each day listing everyone who is currently bouncing?
(I do *NOT* want to trawl the logs to try to decipher a load of  
gobbledygook which seems completely unintelligible to me - I want an  
email listing the bouncers in plain English (US English acceptable!)).

3. Is there also a way to make it so that the "mailmain- 
bounces at xxx.com" address ONLY sends messages that are to do with  
bounces? It's not very helpful when all sorts of other admin stuff  
come from an address called "mailman-BOUNCES"!

Cheers
Pete bell, UK


From dennis.putnam at aimaudit.com  Tue Jun 21 16:07:48 2005
From: dennis.putnam at aimaudit.com (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:07:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Black hole
Message-ID: <4ff9de79466426eb27c02d56014cb17c@aimaudit.com>

I am having trouble with my distribution lists (well, only one is 
currently under test). I can see from the mail.log file that an 
incoming message was processed and sent to 'mailman'. However, no one 
on the list received anything and I cannot see anything in the log 
where it was distributed. The message seems to have gone into a black 
hole without a trace.

The logs have not been updated in a couple of weeks. Did I 
inadvertently turn off logging somewhere? How do I figure out what is 
wrong?

Dennis Putnam
Sr. IT Systems Administrator
AIM Systems, Inc.
11675 Rainwater Dr., Suite 200
Alpharetta, GA  30004
Phone: 678-240-4112
Main Phone: 678-297-0700
FAX: 678-297-2666 or 770-576-1000
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments is 
strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, 
dissemination, distribution, or duplication of any part of this e-mail 
or any attachment is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all copies, 
including the attachments.



From pkey at sgul.ac.uk  Tue Jun 21 16:24:46 2005
From: pkey at sgul.ac.uk (Paul Key)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:24:46 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disappearing email
Message-ID: <42B8232E.7000406@sgul.ac.uk>

Mailman 2.1.3
Sun Sparc Solaris 9

I have a one-way announcements list with about 2300 subscribers and a 
post to this list has completely disappeared.

The reply-to address of the sent email is changed to the email address 
of the person who has asked for the email to be sent out and this causes 
the mail to need approval even though the account used to send the email 
has been added to "List of non-member addresses whose postings should be 
automatically accepted.".  This is intermittent too - sometimes the 
email will go through without approval with a changed reply-to address - 
sometimes not.

However this email asked for approval - here are the entries from vette:

Jun 21 10:27:13 2005 (2762) Sgul-students post from lj005748 at sgul.ac.uk 
held, message-id=<42B7DE91.7060502 at sgul.ac.uk>: Post to moderated list
Jun 21 10:29:09 2005 (2902) held message approved, message-id: 
<42B7DE91.7060502 at sgul.ac.uk>
Jun 21 10:55:22 2005 (3013) Sgul-students post from lj005748 at sgul.ac.uk 
held, message-id=<42B7E52A.7000904 at sgul.ac.uk>: Post to moderated list
Jun 21 10:57:04 2005 (3077) sgul-students: Discarded posting:
    From: messages at sgul.ac.uk
    Subject: Extension of Awards Deadline
    Reason: No reason given

The first time it was sent it was approved but nobody received it and it 
didn't show in the POST log so it was sent again.  Again it was approved 
but then discarded - why?  The email appears in the list archive but 
using exim and eximon it was never sent out (doesn't show on the queue) 
but has disappeared without trace.

Does anyone know how I can find out what has happened to it?  or how to 
get the mail sent?

Thanks

Paul






-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.



From ashley at pcraft.com  Tue Jun 21 17:25:16 2005
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:25:16 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Black hole
In-Reply-To: <4ff9de79466426eb27c02d56014cb17c@aimaudit.com>
References: <4ff9de79466426eb27c02d56014cb17c@aimaudit.com>
Message-ID: <42B8315C.4050908@pcraft.com>

Dennis Putnam wrote:

>I am having trouble with my distribution lists (well, only one is 
>currently under test). I can see from the mail.log file that an 
>incoming message was processed and sent to 'mailman'. However, no one 
>on the list received anything and I cannot see anything in the log 
>where it was distributed. The message seems to have gone into a black 
>hole without a trace.
>  
>
    Is the mailman process running?  Is the crontab running?

-- 
H | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere.
  +--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  IT Director / SysAdmin / WebSmith             .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Imaging                       .     3550 Arapahoe Ave. #6
  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A. 





From rgrempel at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 17:42:28 2005
From: rgrempel at gmail.com (Ryan Rempel)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:42:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disappearing email
In-Reply-To: <42B8232E.7000406@sgul.ac.uk>
References: <42B8232E.7000406@sgul.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <fb5ec42305062108423e6e508e@mail.gmail.com>

On 6/21/05, Paul Key <pkey at sgul.ac.uk> wrote:

> I have a one-way announcements list with about 2300 subscribers and a
> post to this list has completely disappeared.
> 
> The reply-to address of the sent email is changed to the email address
> of the person who has asked for the email to be sent out and this causes
> the mail to need approval even though the account used to send the email
> has been added to "List of non-member addresses whose postings should be
> automatically accepted.".  This is intermittent too - sometimes the
> email will go through without approval with a changed reply-to address -
> sometimes not.
> 
> However this email asked for approval - here are the entries from vette:
> 
> Jun 21 10:27:13 2005 (2762) Sgul-students post from lj005748 at sgul.ac.uk
> held, message-id=<42B7DE91.7060502 at sgul.ac.uk>: Post to moderated list
> Jun 21 10:29:09 2005 (2902) held message approved, message-id:
> <42B7DE91.7060502 at sgul.ac.uk>
> Jun 21 10:55:22 2005 (3013) Sgul-students post from lj005748 at sgul.ac.uk
> held, message-id=<42B7E52A.7000904 at sgul.ac.uk>: Post to moderated list
> Jun 21 10:57:04 2005 (3077) sgul-students: Discarded posting:
>     From: messages at sgul.ac.uk
>     Subject: Extension of Awards Deadline
>     Reason: No reason given
> 
> The first time it was sent it was approved but nobody received it and it
> didn't show in the POST log so it was sent again.  Again it was approved
> but then discarded - why?  The email appears in the list archive but
> using exim and eximon it was never sent out (doesn't show on the queue)
> but has disappeared without trace.
> 
> Does anyone know how I can find out what has happened to it?  or how to
> get the mail sent?

I had a similar problem recently which turned out to be a problem with
some changes I had made to the LDAP member adaptor (which I was using
for the list). The bug in my changes was such that there were some
circumstances in which the list thought it had no members -- if this
happened when the message was being processed, then Mailman would (of
course) send it to no one. However, the message did get included in
the list archive.

So that is one kind of possibility, though of course there are many
other reasons why this might happen.


From waterstc+ at pitt.edu  Tue Jun 21 18:47:05 2005
From: waterstc+ at pitt.edu (Thomas Waters)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:47:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need assistance trouble shooting problem after
 moving Mailman from one box to another
Message-ID: <A900CBB5-2609-4646-9AB8-CF380AF0F3C5@pitt.edu>

I posted last week before moving our distribution lists from a  
Panther Server (Mailman 2.1.3) to Tiger Server (Mailman 2.1.5).   
Instructioins, esp those from Mark Sapiro were very helpful.  I was  
able to move the lists, and the archives.  Everything in the OS X  
Server Admin UI looks fine and the Mailman Web UI  looks fine.  I can  
add members, delete members.  But none of the transfered lists appear  
to work- mail sent to any of them seems lost.

I can add a new list, add members, and that list works fine, so  
Mailman is functioning.

On the transfered lists- I did these steps:
Stop mailman on old server
Stop mailman on new server
copy lists and archives

edit mm_cfg.py to show correct host name

ran fix_url.py  although told me to run as bin/withlist -l -r fix_url  
listname

This appeared to all run successfully.

What to do next?

Thx,




NOTE: new email address
--
Thomas Waters
Director of Information and Communication Services
University of Pittsburgh School of Pharmacy
412-383-7471
waterstc at pitt.edu
http://www.pharmacy.pitt.edu



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Jun 21 19:47:59 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:47:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bouncing
In-Reply-To: <9DEB82D0-AAB1-4E0C-A84D-7DD23EADF1EC@ntlworld.com>
References: <9DEB82D0-AAB1-4E0C-A84D-7DD23EADF1EC@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <p06200703bede024030e3@[192.168.1.101]>

At 2:37 PM +0100 2005-06-21, PeteBell wrote:

>  2. Is there a way to get a report sent to me by the Mailman software
>  each day listing everyone who is currently bouncing?

	At a list admin level?  No.

	Site administrators could install log processing software and 
have a summary sent to them on a daily basis.  But there is nothing 
you can do at the list admin level.  See also 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.030.htp>.

>  (I do *NOT* want to trawl the logs to try to decipher a load of
>  gobbledygook which seems completely unintelligible to me - I want an
>  email listing the bouncers in plain English (US English acceptable!)).

	Doesn't exist.  Sorry!

>  3. Is there also a way to make it so that the "mailmain-
>  bounces at xxx.com" address ONLY sends messages that are to do with
>  bounces? It's not very helpful when all sorts of other admin stuff
>  come from an address called "mailman-BOUNCES"!

	That address is used to send stuff, so that if/when those 
messages result in bounces, those bounces will be sent back to the 
appropriate address to process the bounces.

	The address used doesn't tell you anything whatsoever about the 
nature of the messages you're being sent.  It's not like all bounces 
are sent from the -bounces address, all warnings are sent from the 
-warnings address, or anything like that.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Jun 21 19:38:41 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:38:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] personolized email address
In-Reply-To: <006b01c5765f$9d5485a0$5b505a64@windows489dfc5>
References: <006b01c5765f$9d5485a0$5b505a64@windows489dfc5>
Message-ID: <p06200701bede00aed26c@[192.168.1.101]>

At 3:49 PM +0300 2005-06-21, Jean Touma wrote:

>  Actually i do know how to personolize the header and the footer of the
>  messages through none digest option but i didn't find how to personolize
>  the email address sent to, most of the email filters are rejecting the
>  messages or transferring them to the junk and bulk email folders

	Go to the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> and search for 
"personalize".  You can also search the archives of the mailman-users 
mailing list (see the instructions at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.018.htp>).

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Jun 21 19:43:05 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:43:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] character errors
In-Reply-To: <00a901c57660$24de8cf0$5b505a64@windows489dfc5>
References: <00a901c57660$24de8cf0$5b505a64@windows489dfc5>
Message-ID: <p06200702bede0132f171@[192.168.1.101]>

At 3:52 PM +0300 2005-06-21, Jean Touma wrote:

>  i am using the english language and all messages go using plain text
>  using english font as well and some email addesses bounced and the
>  bounced message says "The user does not accept email in non-Western
>  (non-Latin) character sets."

	Some Windows programs will do bizarre things with character sets 
on occasion, or there may be other strange things going on with the 
character sets.  You won't be able to tell without looking at the 
messages with a file editor that can handle binary data.

	However, the bounce message is not anything you can fix.  That's 
a problem for the remote end.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From waterstc+ at pitt.edu  Tue Jun 21 20:45:16 2005
From: waterstc+ at pitt.edu (Thomas Waters)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:45:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need assistance trouble shooting problem after
 moving Mailman from one box to another
In-Reply-To: <42B8580E.3080709@equinephotoart.com>
References: <A900CBB5-2609-4646-9AB8-CF380AF0F3C5@pitt.edu>
	<42B8580E.3080709@equinephotoart.com>
Message-ID: <5289EDE7-0164-4425-B526-21125D6CDC1F@pitt.edu>


On Jun 21, 2005, at 2:10 PM, JC Dill wrote:

> What about alises?

There are no aliases
>
>
>> edit mm_cfg.py to show correct host name
>> ran fix_url.py  although told me to run as bin/withlist -l -r  
>> fix_url  listname
>>
>> This appeared to all run successfully.
>> What to do next?
>>
>
> Look at the list archives.
>
> If the message makes it to the archive, then mailman is getting the  
> message, so the problem would be with mailman sending the message  
> back out.

They do not get to the archives.  I think maybe I have a permissions  
problem with the transferred files.  I;'m looking at that first.


>   Check to make sure the new mailman server has permission to send  
> thru your mail server etc.
>
> If the message doesn't get to the archives then the problem is with  
> the message getting to mailman, or with mailman processing the  
> message on the incoming side, e.g. broken alises not delivering the  
> mail to mailman or mailman treating the message as spam and  
> discarding it.
>
> Also look at the mailman logs and the mail server logs.
>
>



From lists05 at equinephotoart.com  Tue Jun 21 21:15:08 2005
From: lists05 at equinephotoart.com (JC Dill)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:15:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need assistance trouble shooting problem after
 moving Mailman from one box to another
In-Reply-To: <5289EDE7-0164-4425-B526-21125D6CDC1F@pitt.edu>
References: <A900CBB5-2609-4646-9AB8-CF380AF0F3C5@pitt.edu>
	<42B8580E.3080709@equinephotoart.com>
	<5289EDE7-0164-4425-B526-21125D6CDC1F@pitt.edu>
Message-ID: <42B8673C.2090008@equinephotoart.com>

Thomas Waters wrote:
> 
> On Jun 21, 2005, at 2:10 PM, JC Dill wrote:
> 
>> What about alises?
> 
> There are no aliases

<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=aliases&querytype=simple&casefold=yes&req=search>

See FAQ entries 1.7 and 3.14.

jc


From kalin at el.net  Tue Jun 21 22:59:37 2005
From: kalin at el.net (kalin mintchev)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:59:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Privacy options
Message-ID: <62596.68.165.89.73.1119387577.squirrel@68.165.89.73>



hi all...

i just upgraded to 2.1.5...

in the 2.0....  version i had before in the Privacy options there was a
setting for every single message to be approved - doesn't matter if the
member was new or not. now i can't find this...  i see that there is a way
to turn that behavior for posts per member but that means that i'd have to
do it one by one?!? can i do that for all the members at once in 2.1.5?
looked at the bin but nothing looked like it...

thanks...




From cpz at tuunq.com  Tue Jun 21 23:06:37 2005
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:06:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Privacy options
In-Reply-To: <62596.68.165.89.73.1119387577.squirrel@68.165.89.73> from kalin
	mintchev at "Jun 21, 2005 04:59:37 pm"
Message-ID: <20050621210637.C95637AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, kalin mintchev wrote:

> in the 2.0....  version i had before in the Privacy options there was a
> setting for every single message to be approved - doesn't matter if the
> member was new or not. now i can't find this...  i see that there is a way
> to turn that behavior for posts per member but that means that i'd have to
> do it one by one?!? can i do that for all the members at once in 2.1.5?
> looked at the bin but nothing looked like it...

See FAQ 3.11, set everyone moderationed.

z!


From john at wa9als.com  Tue Jun 21 23:10:55 2005
From: john at wa9als.com (John Fleming)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:10:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Privacy options
In-Reply-To: <62596.68.165.89.73.1119387577.squirrel@68.165.89.73>
References: <62596.68.165.89.73.1119387577.squirrel@68.165.89.73>
Message-ID: <200506211610.55892.john@wa9als.com>

On Tuesday 21 June 2005 03:59 pm, kalin mintchev wrote:
> hi all...
>
> i just upgraded to 2.1.5...
>
> in the 2.0....  version i had before in the Privacy options there was
> a setting for every single message to be approved - doesn't matter if
> the member was new or not. now i can't find this...  i see that there
> is a way to turn that behavior for posts per member but that means
> that i'd have to do it one by one?!? can i do that for all the
> members at once in 2.1.5? looked at the bin but nothing looked like
> it...
>
> thanks...

Look at the membership list - There is an option to set everyone's 
moderation bit, including those not visible.  - John


From jardar at nvg.ntnu.no  Tue Jun 21 23:21:13 2005
From: jardar at nvg.ntnu.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jardar_Eggesb=F8_Abrahamsen?=)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:21:13 +0200 (MET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sender restrictions
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0506212310230.3831@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no>

I want to deny a certain local user (testbrukar) the ability to send 
e-mail to destinations outside the local domain. I have tried this: 
http://www.postfix.org/RESTRICTION_CLASS_README.html

The result here is exactly the same as when I tried to deny the user _all_ 
sending abilities (using check_sender_access only, without any 
smtpd_restriction_classes): If I telnet to port 25, access is denied to 
the sender. But if the user uses pine, the e-mail is accepted

Examples from the configuration where the user "testbrukar" is allowed to 
send e-mail to his own domain but not to other domains:

With pine:

Jun 21 22:34:59 ludde postfix/smtpd[15600]: connect from localhost[127.0.0.1]
Jun 21 22:34:59 ludde postfix/smtpd[15600]: 3BE72FA10: 
client=localhost[127.0.0.1]
Jun 21 22:34:59 ludde postfix/cleanup[15597]: 3BE72FA10: 
message-id=<Pine.LNX.4.62.0506212234440.15567 at ludde.domain.tld>
Jun 21 22:34:59 ludde postfix/qmgr[15594]: 3BE72FA10: 
from=<testbrukar at domain.tld>, size=1099, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Jun 21 22:34:59 ludde postfix/smtpd[15600]: disconnect from 
localhost[127.0.0.1]Jun 21 22:34:59 ludde amavis[15549]: (15549-01) Passed 
CLEAN, <testbrukar at domain.tld> -> <jardar at otherdomain.tld>, Message-ID: 
<Pine.LNX.4.62.0506212234440.15567 at ludde.domain.tld>, Hits: -1.25, 2162 ms

With telnet localhost 25:

Jun 21 22:35:55 ludde postfix/smtpd[15614]: connect from 
localhost[127.0.0.1]
Jun 21 22:36:16 ludde postfix/smtpd[15614]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from 
localhost[127.0.0.1]: 554 <testbrukar at domain.tld>: Sender address 
rejected: Access denied; from=<testbrukar at domain.tld> 
to=<jardar at otherdomain.tld> proto=SMTP helo=<localhost>

postconf -n:

alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases,   hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
command_directory = /usr/sbin/
config_directory = /etc/postfix
content_filter = smtp-amavis:[127.0.0.1]:10024
daemon_directory = /usr/libexec/postfix
debug_peer_level = 2
disable_vrfy_command = yes
html_directory = /usr/doc/postfix-2.2.3/html
mail_owner = postfix
mailq_path = /usr/bin/mailq
manpage_directory = /usr/man
mime_header_checks = regexp:/etc/postfix/mime_header_checks.regexp
mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost, $mydomain,        www.$mydomain, 127.0.0.1
mydomain = domain.tld
myhostname = ludde.domain.tld
mynetworks_style = host
myorigin = $mydomain
newaliases_path = /usr/bin/newaliases
queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix
readme_directory = /usr/doc/postfix-2.2.3/README_FILES
recipient_delimiter = +
relayhost = 
sample_directory = /etc/postfix
sendmail_path = /usr/sbin/sendmail
setgid_group = postdrop
smtpd_client_restrictions = permit_mynetworks,        reject_unauth_pipelining,        check_sender_access hash:/etc/postfix/sender_ikkje_rbl,        reject_rbl_client cbl.abuseat.org,        reject_rbl_client opm.blitzed.org,        reject_rbl_client list.dsbl.org,        reject_rbl_client combined.njabl.org,        reject_rbl_client sbl.spamhaus.org,        reject_rbl_client rbl-plus.mail-abuse.org,        reject_rbl_client relays.ordb.org,        check_client_access hash:/etc/postfix/client_access        permit
smtpd_error_sleep_time = 10
smtpd_helo_required = yes
smtpd_helo_restrictions = permit_mynetworks,        reject_unauth_pipelining,        check_helo_access hash:/etc/postfix/helo_checks,        permit
smtpd_recipient_restrictions = check_sender_access hash:/etc/postfix/restricted_senders   permit_mynetworks,   reject_unauth_destination,   reject_non_fqdn_recipient,   check_recipient_access hash:/etc/postfix/recipient_access   check_policy_service inet:127.0.0.1:10023   permit
smtpd_restriction_classes = local_only
smtpd_sender_restrictions = reject_unknown_sender_domain,         reject_non_fqdn_sender,         permit
smtpd_soft_error_limit = 1
transport_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/transport
unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550


From jardar at nvg.ntnu.no  Tue Jun 21 23:22:35 2005
From: jardar at nvg.ntnu.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jardar_Eggesb=F8_Abrahamsen?=)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 23:22:35 +0200 (MET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sender restrictions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0506212310230.3831@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0506212310230.3831@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0506212322050.3831@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no>

Oops, sorry! This was intended for postfix-users, not mailman-users!

Jardar


From kalin at el.net  Tue Jun 21 23:31:07 2005
From: kalin at el.net (kalin mintchev)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:31:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Privacy options
In-Reply-To: <20050621210637.C95637AE@mail.tuunq.com>
References: <62596.68.165.89.73.1119387577.squirrel@68.165.89.73> from kalin
	mintchev at "Jun 21, 2005 04:59:37 pm"
	<20050621210637.C95637AE@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <62656.68.165.89.73.1119389467.squirrel@68.165.89.73>


right...  sorry...  thanks...


> In a flurry of recycled electrons, kalin mintchev wrote:
>
>> in the 2.0....  version i had before in the Privacy options there was a
>> setting for every single message to be approved - doesn't matter if the
>> member was new or not. now i can't find this...  i see that there is a
>> way
>> to turn that behavior for posts per member but that means that i'd have
>> to
>> do it one by one?!? can i do that for all the members at once in 2.1.5?
>> looked at the bin but nothing looked like it...
>
> See FAQ 3.11, set everyone moderationed.
>
> z!
>


-- 
--
"In a world without walls or fences, who needs Windows and Gates?"



From nospam001-lists at jankoh.dyndns.org  Wed Jun 22 01:41:05 2005
From: nospam001-lists at jankoh.dyndns.org (Jan Kohnert)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 01:41:05 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix, Amavis and mailhost
Message-ID: <200506220141.09039.nospam001-lists@jankoh.dyndns.org>

Hello,

I'm using Mailman and Postfix with Amavis and it works quite good.

But I have one performance problem:
If a message arrives at my server, it is checked by amavis. If the recipient 
is the list, it it passed to mailman, which the message puts back to postfix 
and then it is checked twice by amavis...

So my question:

Is it possible to tell mailman to deliver to the postfix instance, which 
delivers finally? Something like adding the port of my final delivery 
instance to the mailhost variable (mail.relay.tld:Port instead of 
mail.relay.tld)?

TIA

Best regards Jan

-- 
OpenPGP Public-Key Fingerprint:
0E9B 4052 C661 5018 93C3 4E46 651A 7A28 4028 FF7A
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From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Jun 22 02:06:45 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 19:06:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix, Amavis and mailhost
In-Reply-To: <200506220141.09039.nospam001-lists@jankoh.dyndns.org>
References: <200506220141.09039.nospam001-lists@jankoh.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <p06200709bede5b5a12ec@[192.168.1.101]>

At 1:41 AM +0200 2005-06-22, Jan Kohnert wrote:

>  Is it possible to tell mailman to deliver to the postfix instance, which
>  delivers finally? Something like adding the port of my final delivery
>  instance to the mailhost variable (mail.relay.tld:Port instead of
>  mail.relay.tld)?

	The way this is typically done is by configuring the "external" 
postfix instance (the one that runs everything through AMaViS) to 
listen to the external IP addresses, and to have the "internal" 
postfix instance (the one that handles final delivery once the 
message has been scanned) on the "internal" IP addresses.  Note that 
the IP address 127.0.0.1 is usually the "internal" IP address that is 
used, if all three processes are done on the same machine.

	This way, internally generated mail should be able to go out 
without needing to be scanned, while mail coming in will be scanned 
on inbound only.  All that would change would be the IP address to 
which the particular postfix instance is listening, and not the port.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From morphine at digitalmente.net  Wed Jun 22 03:15:02 2005
From: morphine at digitalmente.net (Bruno Ferreira)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 02:15:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple subscription requests and reminders
In-Reply-To: <p06200743bed8c6fd833d@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <42B2F008.40407@digitalmente.net>
	<p06200743bed8c6fd833d@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <42B8BB96.9040506@digitalmente.net>

Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 4:45 PM +0100 2005-06-17, Bruno Ferreira wrote:
>
>>      I have a mailman 2.1.5 installation on a FC1 Plesk-administrated
>>  server.
>
>     Please note the Mailman FAQ Wizard entry at 
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.015.htp>.

    I've read that FAQ entry but unfortunately it doesn't really address 
this problem. The Mailman version installed is nearly the most (stable) 
recent one, so the older-version-installed problems don't apply.

>>          The problem I'm having is that subscription confirmation 
>> e-mails arrive in duplicate or quadruplicate (!!!!). Plus, 
>> subscription  reminders come in even larger quantities. The 
>> "subscribe" log shows  apparently independent subscription requests, 
>> so I'm kinda stumped on what's causing this.
>
>     What exactly is in your MTA logs?  What is in your Mailman logs? 
> Can you show us some examples of duplicate messages, with all the 
> headers intact?


    Mailman subscribe log (machine/email addresses changes to protect 
the customer :):
    ----

    Jun 22 01:33:29 2005 (3305) mailinglist: pending 
destination at server.com  destination at server.com
    Jun 22 01:33:29 2005 (3305) mailinglist: pending 
destination at server.com  destination at server.com
    Jun 22 01:33:29 2005 (3305) mailinglist: pending 
destination at server.com  destination at server.com
    Jun 22 01:33:29 2005 (3305) mailinglist: pending 
destination at server.com  destination at server.com


    Mailman smtp log:
    --------

    Jun 22 01:33:29 2005 (3308) 
<mailman.0.1119400409.3305.mailing_list at webserver.com> smtp for 1 
recips, completed in 0.277 seconds
    Jun 22 01:33:29 2005 (3308) 
<mailman.1.1119400409.3305.mailing_list at webserver.com> smtp for 1 
recips, completed in 0.085 seconds
    Jun 22 01:33:29 2005 (3308) 
<mailman.2.1119400409.3305.mailing_list at webserver.com> smtp for 1 
recips, completed in 0.074 seconds
    Jun 22 01:33:29 2005 (3308) 
<mailman.3.1119400409.3305.mailing_list at webserver.com> smtp for 1 
recips, completed in 0.092 seconds


    SMTP server log (from xinetd) shows 4 independent SMTP spawned 
processes:
    --------

    Jun 22 01:33:29 server xinetd[18538]: START: smtp pid=3370 
from=127.0.0.1
    Jun 22 01:33:29 server xinetd[18538]: START: smtp pid=3373 
from=127.0.0.1
    Jun 22 01:33:29 server xinetd[18538]: START: smtp pid=3377 
from=127.0.0.1
    Jun 22 01:33:29 server xinetd[18538]: START: smtp pid=3381 
from=127.0.0.1


    Message headers:
    --------------------

    All headers match among messages except sender/receiver MTA PID 
(obviously), the subject (there are 4 separate confirmation requests 
with individual hashes), and the message ID. *However*, the message ID 
only changes the first digit among all 4 messsages, i.e.:

    <mailman.0.1119400409.3305.mailingmoderna at modernaeditorial.com>
    <mailman.1.1119400409.3305.mailingmoderna at modernaeditorial.com>
    <mailman.2.1119400409.3305.mailingmoderna at modernaeditorial.com>
    <mailman.3.1119400409.3305.mailingmoderna at modernaeditorial.com>

    The destination address, before you ask, is not a list administrator 
(I double-checked that). I didn't copy all the message headers for the 
sake of readability, since they're all the same.

>> The MTA is qmail and seems to be working fine for several domains 
>> hosted on this machine. Has anyone had this problem, and what 
>> can/should I look for as far as troubleshooting goes?
>
>     For qmail-related items, you'd need to use mailing lists, FAQs, 
> etc... related to that MTA.  The issue right now is that we need to 
> help you figure out where the problem lies.    


    I only mentioned that so that anyone who read this wouldn't think 
that an MTA wasn't even properly configured :)


    -- Bruno Ferreira
---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Jun 22 03:44:43 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 20:44:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple subscription requests and reminders
In-Reply-To: <42B8BB96.9040506@digitalmente.net>
References: <42B2F008.40407@digitalmente.net>
	<p06200743bed8c6fd833d@[192.168.1.101]>
	<42B8BB96.9040506@digitalmente.net>
Message-ID: <p0620070cbede71b24fba@[192.168.1.101]>

At 2:15 AM +0100 2005-06-22, Bruno Ferreira wrote:

>>      Please note the Mailman FAQ Wizard entry at
>>  <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.015.htp>.
>
>      I've read that FAQ entry but unfortunately it doesn't really address
>  this problem. The Mailman version installed is nearly the most (stable)
>  recent one, so the older-version-installed problems don't apply.

	In particular, I was primarily referring to the first and third 
paragraphs at that URL:

		    Some people use Mailman through Plesk, and they come to the
		Mailman mailing lists for help when they have trouble. There's
		usually little we can do to help with these specific problems,
		and you should contact your hosting provider or Plesk for
		assistance. You can also obtain assistance through the Plesk
		Forums at <http://forum.sw-soft.com/>, using the search
		keyword "mailman". However, since none of the Mailman
		developers use Plesk, we are not likely to be able to help.

	And:

		This is similar to the problem with Mailman and cPanel, see
		<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.

	Then there is the fourth paragraph:

		If you're having problems with messages not getting out to
		your members, you may not have direct access to the level of
		information needed to debug the problem, but you should at
		least check out the standard debugging entry in FAQ 3.14 at
		<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>.



	Looking at the other information you've provided, I don't see 
anything that is helpful in terms of trying to debug your problem. 
At least from the perspective of Mailman, it seems to have done its 
job in all the appropriate places and handed the messages over to the 
MTA.

	From that point, it's up to the MTA, and that's something we 
can't help you with.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From morphine at digitalmente.net  Wed Jun 22 05:04:35 2005
From: morphine at digitalmente.net (Bruno Ferreira)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 04:04:35 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple subscription requests and reminders
In-Reply-To: <p0620070cbede71b24fba@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <42B2F008.40407@digitalmente.net>
	<p06200743bed8c6fd833d@[192.168.1.101]>
	<42B8BB96.9040506@digitalmente.net>
	<p0620070cbede71b24fba@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <42B8D543.10601@digitalmente.net>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>     Looking at the other information you've provided, I don't see 
> anything that is helpful in terms of trying to debug your problem. At 
> least from the perspective of Mailman, it seems to have done its job 
> in all the appropriate places and handed the messages over to the MTA.
>
>     From that point, it's up to the MTA, and that's something we can't 
> help you with.

    I believe you may have misread my post (or part of it). The problem 
is not that e-mails don't get send, it's that a subscription requests 
(especially reminders) go out in multiple copies to the recipient. In 
the example given, a single subscription request ended up being 
quadruplicated by Mailman (for no apparent reason). All of the logs 
files I've pasted point to this. The hashes in the messages are all 
different, which seems to indicate Mailman somehow processing the same 
subscription request 4 times. In particular, subscription reminders 
usually come out in quantities of 16. Mailman seems to be working fine 
otherwise.

    The problem wasn't the users not getting their mail, it was about 
them getting too much of it. I've looked in the Plesk forums anyway, and 
no-one seemed to have this problem. I've looked at the troubleshooting 
FAQ as well, and reviewed the following:

    * Mailmanctrl is running
    * Aliases are OK
    * smrsh is not used
    * Messages are going out well (too well), so the interfaces are fine
    * Only one lock file is present, for the current daemon PID
    * Logs: already checked those (and posted the relevant ones), it
      seems everything is ok too
    * Queues are empty, as they should be
    * SMTPHOST is fine as outbund messages work ok


    -- Bruno Ferreira
   


From sythos at sythos.net  Wed Jun 22 09:50:31 2005
From: sythos at sythos.net (Sythos)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:50:31 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix, Amavis and mailhost
In-Reply-To: <200506220141.09039.nospam001-lists@jankoh.dyndns.org>
References: <200506220141.09039.nospam001-lists@jankoh.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20050622075031.GA1128@sythos.net>

On Wed, Jun 22, 2005 at 01:41:05AM +0200, Jan Kohnert wrote:
> But I have one performance problem:
> If a message arrives at my server, it is checked by amavis. If the recipient 
> is the list, it it passed to mailman, which the message puts back to postfix 
> and then it is checked twice by amavis...
> So my question:
> Is it possible to tell mailman to deliver to the postfix instance, which 
> delivers finally? Something like adding the port of my final delivery 
> instance to the mailhost variable (mail.relay.tld:Port instead of 
> mail.relay.tld)?

create in main.cf another SMTP service (on port 20025 for example) with
param "content_filter=", so, tell mailman to use as mailserver
"localhost:20025".
Now, if all work correctly (detail on manpage and doc) when email arrive
smtp:25 pass it to postfix+amavis, mailman (already received&checked
email) send to smtp:20025 (postix w/o amavis).

Another way is use "transport", all *@yourdomain.tld go to
amavis_listening_port, all other to postfix smtp:25 (w/o content_filter,
amavis send back postfix email as soon as it check content)

-- 

Sythos - http://www.sythos.net
  ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
  /\                        - against M$ attachments


From pkey at sgul.ac.uk  Wed Jun 22 10:33:42 2005
From: pkey at sgul.ac.uk (Paul Key)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:33:42 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to get mailman to ignore the reply-to address?
Message-ID: <42B92266.30303@sgul.ac.uk>

Mailman 2.1.3
Sun Sparc Solaris 9

I have a one-way announcements list with subscribers having their 
moderation bit set.

The reply-to address of the sent email is changed to the email address 
of the person who has asked for the email to be sent out.

Now if this person who the reply-to address is changed to happens to be 
a subscriber to the list then I, the sender (added to "List of 
non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically accepted.") 
get an email from mailman telling me that "Sorry - you are cannot post 
to this list." Yet if the reply-to address is changed to be a 
non-subscriber unconnected with the list my email gets posted without a 
problem - why is the reply-to address behaving in this way and why can't 
I change it to what I want? 

Can I get mailman to simply ignore the reply-to address like listproc?

Thanks

Paul

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.



From jean-philippe.giola at st.com  Wed Jun 22 10:38:52 2005
From: jean-philippe.giola at st.com (Jean-Philippe GIOLA)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:38:52 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] txt files and database
Message-ID: <42B9239C.6080001@st.com>

Hi all!
nobody has answered me so I ask my question an another time...!
I want to know why the mailman's developpers have choosen to store mail 
for the archives in txt files and not in a database like forums

thanks for your answers!

reguards

-- 
Jean-Philippe Giola - 6577




From sythos at sythos.net  Wed Jun 22 10:53:03 2005
From: sythos at sythos.net (Sythos)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:53:03 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to get mailman to ignore the reply-to
	address?
In-Reply-To: <42B92266.30303@sgul.ac.uk>
References: <42B92266.30303@sgul.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20050622085303.GA2880@sythos.net>

On Wed, Jun 22, 2005 at 09:33:42AM +0100, Paul Key wrote:
> I have a one-way announcements list with subscribers having their 
> moderation bit set.
> The reply-to address of the sent email is changed to the email address 
> of the person who has asked for the email to be sent out.

in admin general web page there are some option to set: force Reply-to
overwrite, reply-to substitution

this should work

-- 

Sythos - http://www.sythos.net
  ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
  /\                        - against M$ attachments


From sythos at sythos.net  Wed Jun 22 10:55:41 2005
From: sythos at sythos.net (Sythos)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:55:41 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] txt files and database
In-Reply-To: <42B9239C.6080001@st.com>
References: <42B9239C.6080001@st.com>
Message-ID: <20050622085541.GB2880@sythos.net>

On Wed, Jun 22, 2005 at 10:38:52AM +0200, Jean-Philippe GIOLA wrote:
> nobody has answered me so I ask my question an another time...!
> I want to know why the mailman's developpers have choosen to store mail 
> for the archives in txt files and not in a database like forums
> thanks for your answers!

I'm not a mm coder, but I think the reason is: txt file is easier. No
additional DB manager, no platform dependencies.
:)


Regards

-- 

Sythos - http://www.sythos.net
  ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
  /\                        - against M$ attachments


From pkey at sgul.ac.uk  Wed Jun 22 11:02:35 2005
From: pkey at sgul.ac.uk (Paul Key)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:02:35 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to get mailman to ignore the reply-to
	address?
In-Reply-To: <20050622085303.GA2880@sythos.net>
References: <42B92266.30303@sgul.ac.uk> <20050622085303.GA2880@sythos.net>
Message-ID: <42B9292B.2030904@sgul.ac.uk>

Thanks but these options don't do what I want i.e. simply get mailman to 
ignore the reply-to address not try and validate the reply-to address.

Sythos wrote:

>On Wed, Jun 22, 2005 at 09:33:42AM +0100, Paul Key wrote:
>  
>
>>I have a one-way announcements list with subscribers having their 
>>moderation bit set.
>>The reply-to address of the sent email is changed to the email address 
>>of the person who has asked for the email to be sent out.
>>    
>>
>
>in admin general web page there are some option to set: force Reply-to
>overwrite, reply-to substitution
>
>this should work
>
>  
>

-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.



From macbantam at ntlworld.com  Wed Jun 22 11:45:07 2005
From: macbantam at ntlworld.com (PeteBell)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:45:07 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Member cannot post
Message-ID: <BCF45870-0BE6-47FE-95F1-EF682F1BBBA6@ntlworld.com>

I have a member whose emails to my list address are being returned to  
him with the following message...

> Remote host said: 550 Administrative prohibition

I have NOT blocked his address and there doesn't seem to be anything  
wrong, or wrongly setup, with his subscription.

What possible reasons could there be for this, where do I look for  
any clues (I do NOT have access to the installation), and how is it  
rectified?

Cheers
Pete Bell, UK


From mail at christiananton.de  Wed Jun 22 12:46:58 2005
From: mail at christiananton.de (Christian Anton)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:46:58 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domain lists
Message-ID: <200506221246.58546.mail@christiananton.de>

Hi list,

i am running mailman 2.1.5 with the mailman-virtual patch for some virtual 
domains.
Because of the usage of suexec on my Webserver i have every vhost running its 
CGI's with another UID on the system. For being able to access the 
mailman-binaries i have to create a new vhost that ist only for this, for 
example "lists.domain.tld", configuring in this vhost that cgi's are executed 
with the UID 'mailman'.

Now i want to create a mailinglist list at mglug.de, but the URL host for seeing 
the webpages of the list must be lists at mglug.de.

I have read the documentation and i think that add_virtualhost(<URL_HOST>, 
<MAIL_HOST>) has to be what i want, so that when i create a list with the 
command:

bin/newlist list at mglug.de

mailman understands that the webpages for this list are on 
http://lists.mglug.de.

I tried this out with my configuration i added to this mail, but 
add_virtualhost seems to not have any effect. Can you tell me pls what i am 
doing wrong?


Thanks in advance

Christian


my mm_cfg.py:

[...]

###############################################
# Here's where we get the distributed defaults.

from Defaults import *

##################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.

DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
SMTPHOST = 'localhost'
SMTPPORT = 10025
SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 1000
MTA = 'Postfix'

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'gentix.de'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.gentix.de'

VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
add_virtualhost('lists.citservice.de', 'lists.citservice.de')
add_virtualhost('lists.mglug.de', 'mglug.de')

DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'de'
IMAGE_LOGOS = '/mailmanicons/'



From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Wed Jun 22 14:28:19 2005
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 07:28:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Member cannot post
In-Reply-To: <BCF45870-0BE6-47FE-95F1-EF682F1BBBA6@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <BEDEC393.B505%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 6/22/05 4:45 AM, PeteBell at macbantam at ntlworld.com wrote:

> I have a member whose emails to my list address are being returned to
> him with the following message...
> 
>> Remote host said: 550 Administrative prohibition
> 
> I have NOT blocked his address and there doesn't seem to be anything
> wrong, or wrongly setup, with his subscription.
> 
> What possible reasons could there be for this, where do I look for
> any clues (I do NOT have access to the installation), and how is it
> rectified?

The 550 response is coming from an MTA so this is an MTA problem, not a
Mailman issue. Sounds like your provider has him blocked for some reason.

-- Larry Stone
   lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
   http://www.stonejongleux.com/




From hillson at iastate.edu  Wed Jun 22 16:04:24 2005
From: hillson at iastate.edu (Thomas Hillson)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:04:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange change to email lists
Message-ID: <p06210201bedf1e024068@[129.186.242.1]>

I just moved my server to a new box with RedHat Enterprise and I have 
a strange change in all my lists now. Rather than coming from the 
list-name they are all coming from the list-name-bounces. What would 
make that happen, I tried taking the alias list-name-bounces out of 
my my alias list. Mailman still is sending email as 
list-name-bounces. Where do I find the parameter to change this back 
to being sent from list-name?

thanks,

-- 
--Tom
/----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Tom Hillson            Agriculture Computer Services Manager
|(515) 294-1543      College of Agriculture
|                                  Iowa State University
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|"The only thing I have too much of is too little time"


From Mlinval at css.edu  Wed Jun 22 17:19:40 2005
From: Mlinval at css.edu (Michael Linval)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:19:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two questions about Mailman
Message-ID: <s2b93b47.080@css.edu>

Testing out Mailman to replace our old Majordomo lists.

1. When sending out digests it places all the messages into attachments
instead of in the body of the message.  Is this my email system or is it
Mailman?  I am running on Redhat Enterprise 3 system.

2.  I dont want passwords for each subscriber.  In fact I dont want the
subscribers to even know about the web interface.  How do I subscribe
people without the use of passwords?


Thanks


From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Wed Jun 22 17:21:00 2005
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:21:00 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two questions about Mailman
In-Reply-To: <s2b93b47.080@css.edu>
References: <s2b93b47.080@css.edu>
Message-ID: <20050622152100.GM979@charite.de>

* Michael Linval <Mlinval at css.edu>:
> Testing out Mailman to replace our old Majordomo lists.
> 
> 1. When sending out digests it places all the messages into attachments
> instead of in the body of the message.  Is this my email system or is it
> Mailman?  I am running on Redhat Enterprise 3 system.

Mailman. This is standards-compliant. A proper MUA can pick out
seperate messages from this structure very easily.
 
-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                 send no mail to spamtrap at charite.de


From sythos at sythos.net  Wed Jun 22 17:30:43 2005
From: sythos at sythos.net (Sythos)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:30:43 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Two questions about Mailman
In-Reply-To: <s2b93b47.080@css.edu>
References: <s2b93b47.080@css.edu>
Message-ID: <20050622153043.GA11680@sythos.net>

On Wed, Jun 22, 2005 at 10:19:40AM -0500, Michael Linval wrote:
> 1. When sending out digests it places all the messages into attachments
> instead of in the body of the message.  Is this my email system or is it
> Mailman?  I am running on Redhat Enterprise 3 system.

Probably you set MIME digest, try TEXT, in MIME each email is a separate
MIME part inside digest, in TEXT all email are continuos inside digest.

> 2.  I dont want passwords for each subscriber.  In fact I dont want the
> subscribers to even know about the web interface.  How do I subscribe
> people without the use of passwords?

If you subscribe manually each subscriber via webpanel with "don't send
welcome" and in general options page "don't send monthly password
reminder" a user don't need password.

regards

-- 

Sythos - http://www.sythos.net
  ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
  /\                        - against M$ attachments


From phoffman at proper.com  Wed Jun 22 17:36:21 2005
From: phoffman at proper.com (Paul Hoffman)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:36:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting a single list of all members?
Message-ID: <p06230905bedf358657de@[10.20.30.249]>

Greetings. I didn't see this in the FAQ, although I'm surprised it 
isn't more frequently asked. Under 2.1.5, is there a way to see the 
whole list of users at once, instead of by first letter of their 
name? If not, is there a way of telling the admin interface to gang 
more letters together in the display?


From billl at inetmsg.com  Wed Jun 22 17:47:01 2005
From: billl at inetmsg.com (Bill Landry)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:47:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] txt files and database
References: <42B9239C.6080001@st.com>
Message-ID: <0bff01c57741$cf6acdf0$43c6e2a5@blxp>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jean-Philippe GIOLA" <jean-philippe.giola at st.com>

> Hi all!
> nobody has answered me so I ask my question an another time...!
> I want to know why the mailman's developpers have choosen to store mail
> for the archives in txt files and not in a database like forums

See http://www.list.org/todo.html under the "Portability & architecture" 
section.

Bill 



From nospam2 at mcswartz.org  Wed Jun 22 18:04:53 2005
From: nospam2 at mcswartz.org (John Swartzentruber)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:04:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting a single list of all members?
In-Reply-To: <p06230905bedf358657de@[10.20.30.249]>
References: <p06230905bedf358657de@[10.20.30.249]>
Message-ID: <d9c1re$nge$1@sea.gmane.org>

On 6/22/2005 11:36 AM Paul Hoffman wrote:
> Greetings. I didn't see this in the FAQ, although I'm surprised it 
> isn't more frequently asked. Under 2.1.5, is there a way to see the 
> whole list of users at once, instead of by first letter of their 
> name? If not, is there a way of telling the admin interface to gang 
> more letters together in the display?

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.030.htp

Although it isn't exactly what you asked, it is a way to accomplish the 
first part of what you want.



From phoffman at proper.com  Wed Jun 22 19:00:52 2005
From: phoffman at proper.com (Paul Hoffman)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:00:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting a single list of all members?
In-Reply-To: <d9c1re$nge$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <p06230905bedf358657de@[10.20.30.249]> <d9c1re$nge$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <p0623090dbedf49a10e33@[10.20.30.249]>

At 12:04 PM -0400 6/22/05, John Swartzentruber wrote:
>On 6/22/2005 11:36 AM Paul Hoffman wrote:
>>  Greetings. I didn't see this in the FAQ, although I'm surprised it
>>  isn't more frequently asked. Under 2.1.5, is there a way to see the
>>  whole list of users at once, instead of by first letter of their
>>  name? If not, is there a way of telling the admin interface to gang
>>  more letters together in the display?
>
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.030.htp
>
>Although it isn't exactly what you asked, it is a way to accomplish the
>first part of what you want.

Thanks! That's exactly what I was looking for. I expected it in 
section 3 of the FAQ, but now see why it is in section 4.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Jun 22 20:39:26 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:39:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange change to email lists
In-Reply-To: <p06210201bedf1e024068@[129.186.242.1]>
References: <p06210201bedf1e024068@[129.186.242.1]>
Message-ID: <p06200712bedf601f317e@[192.168.1.101]>

At 9:04 AM -0500 2005-06-22, Thomas Hillson wrote:

>  I just moved my server to a new box with RedHat Enterprise and I have
>  a strange change in all my lists now. Rather than coming from the
>  list-name they are all coming from the list-name-bounces.

	That's the way that Mailman 2.1.* works.

>                                                             What would
>  make that happen, I tried taking the alias list-name-bounces out of
>  my my alias list.

	Don't do that.  You will break Mailman.

>                    Mailman still is sending email as
>  list-name-bounces. Where do I find the parameter to change this back
>  to being sent from list-name?

	You don't.  This is the way that Mailman 2.1.* works.  See also 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq02.003.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From waterstc+ at pitt.edu  Wed Jun 22 23:43:43 2005
From: waterstc+ at pitt.edu (Thomas Waters)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:43:43 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need assistance trouble shooting problem after
 moving Mailman from one box to another
In-Reply-To: <42B8580E.3080709@equinephotoart.com>
References: <A900CBB5-2609-4646-9AB8-CF380AF0F3C5@pitt.edu>
	<42B8580E.3080709@equinephotoart.com>
Message-ID: <EAAAA0A4-366D-4C46-966D-2322989B665E@pitt.edu>

Thanks to everyone who has emailed me with assistance so far.  I have  
some follow up questions:

Following FAQ 3.1.4, I ran check perms.  I see a print out of perms.   
does this command just tell you what they should be; does it fix them?

As per Aliases, the FAQ  is confusing to me, but may be the cause of  
my problems.  I do not understand how to tell if postfix is  
recognizing the ~mailman/data/aliases file.

How do I rebuild the aliases.db file?

Thanks,

On Jun 21, 2005, at 2:10 PM, JC Dill wrote:

> Thomas Waters wrote:
>
>> I posted last week before moving our distribution lists from a   
>> Panther Server (Mailman 2.1.3) to Tiger Server (Mailman 2.1.5).    
>> Instructioins, esp those from Mark Sapiro were very helpful.  I  
>> was  able to move the lists, and the archives.  Everything in the  
>> OS X  Server Admin UI looks fine and the Mailman Web UI  looks  
>> fine.  I can  add members, delete members.  But none of the  
>> transfered lists appear  to work- mail sent to any of them seems  
>> lost.
>> I can add a new list, add members, and that list works fine, so   
>> Mailman is functioning.
>> On the transfered lists- I did these steps:
>> Stop mailman on old server
>> Stop mailman on new server
>> copy lists and archives
>>
>
> What about alises?
>
>
>> edit mm_cfg.py to show correct host name
>> ran fix_url.py  although told me to run as bin/withlist -l -r  
>> fix_url  listname
>>
>> This appeared to all run successfully.
>> What to do next?
>>
>
> Look at the list archives.
>
> If the message makes it to the archive, then mailman is getting the  
> message, so the problem would be with mailman sending the message  
> back out.  Check to make sure the new mailman server has permission  
> to send thru your mail server etc.
>
> If the message doesn't get to the archives then the problem is with  
> the message getting to mailman, or with mailman processing the  
> message on the incoming side, e.g. broken alises not delivering the  
> mail to mailman or mailman treating the message as spam and  
> discarding it.
>
> Also look at the mailman logs and the mail server logs.
>
>



From billl at inetmsg.com  Thu Jun 23 00:03:28 2005
From: billl at inetmsg.com (Bill Landry)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:03:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need assistance trouble shooting problem after
	moving Mailman from one box to another moving Mailman from
	one box to another
References: <A900CBB5-2609-4646-9AB8-CF380AF0F3C5@pitt.edu><42B8580E.3080709@equinephotoart.com>
	<EAAAA0A4-366D-4C46-966D-2322989B665E@pitt.edu>
Message-ID: <048d01c57776$389c70b0$43c6e2a5@blxp>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Thomas Waters" <waterstc+ at pitt.edu>

> Thanks to everyone who has emailed me with assistance so far.  I have
> some follow up questions:
>
> Following FAQ 3.1.4, I ran check perms.  I see a print out of perms.
> does this command just tell you what they should be; does it fix them?
>
> As per Aliases, the FAQ  is confusing to me, but may be the cause of
> my problems.  I do not understand how to tell if postfix is
> recognizing the ~mailman/data/aliases file.

You should have an entry in your Postfix main.cf like (pointing to your 
correct aliases paths):

alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/aliases, hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases

As long as the permission are set correctly on your Mailman aliases file, 
things should be fine.  You can check the permissions on your Mailman files 
by running:

bin/check_perms

This will report any incorrect file/group permissions, or, to correct any 
file/group permissions issues, run as root:

check_perms -f

> How do I rebuild the aliases.db file?

bin/genaliases

Bill 



From billl at inetmsg.com  Thu Jun 23 00:50:49 2005
From: billl at inetmsg.com (Bill Landry)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 15:50:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need assistance trouble shooting problem after
	moving Mailman from one box to another moving Mailman from
	one box to another
References: <A900CBB5-2609-4646-9AB8-CF380AF0F3C5@pitt.edu>
	<42B8580E.3080709@equinephotoart.com>
	<EAAAA0A4-366D-4C46-966D-2322989B665E@pitt.edu>
	<048d01c57776$389c70b0$43c6e2a5@blxp>
	<53FCE9D1-0530-4C18-A316-06069229918A@pitt.edu>
Message-ID: <054001c5777c$d5b9a290$43c6e2a5@blxp>

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Thomas Waters 
  To: Bill Landry 
  Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 3:26 PM
  Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Need assistance trouble shooting problem after moving Mailman from one box to another moving Mailman from one box to another




  On Jun 22, 2005, at 6:03 PM, Bill Landry wrote:


    You should have an entry in your Postfix main.cf like (pointing to your correct aliases paths):


    alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/aliases, hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases


  This may be a part of the problem.  I looked at the file and neither of these exist.  But the lines allso have # so I thought those were comments...


    This will report any incorrect file/group permissions, or, to correct any file/group permissions issues, run as root:


    check_perms -f


  This seemed to work I believe. a number of lines said fixed.


      How do I rebuild the aliases.db file?




    bin/genaliases
  Here is what I get here:


  rxweb:~ tcwaters$ sudo /usr/share/mailman/bin/genaliases
  postalias: fatal: open /private/var/mailman/data/aliases.db: Permission denied
  Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/genaliases", line 116, in ?
      main()
    File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/genaliases", line 106, in main
      MTA.create(mlist, nolock=True, quiet=quiet)
    File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 232, in create
      _update_maps()
    File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 53, in _update_maps
      raise RuntimeError, msg % (acmd, status, errstr)
  RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias /private/var/mailman/data/aliases (status: 1, Operation not permitted)

Hmmm, where exactly do your Mailmail aliases files live?  There appears to be some be some conflict in the paths shown above.  Try executing the genaliases command from the mailman top-level directory as:

    sudo bin/genaliases

and see if that works for you.  Also, please keep posts and replies on the list, helps to build the archive for future reference.

Thanks,

Bill

From dsaklad at zurich.csail.mit.edu  Thu Jun 23 05:08:32 2005
From: dsaklad at zurich.csail.mit.edu (Don Saklad)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 23:08:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to set up a simultaneous unmoderated and
	moderated forum.
Message-ID: <E1DlI4u-0007lT-00@nestle.csail.mit.edu>

How do you set up a forum so that a version is available that is
unmoderated along with a version that is moderated, the choice
up to subscribers?...

Subscribers could alternate back and forth between the unmoderated and
moderated versions of the forum depending on the threads that are of
interest.


From seebs at plethora.net  Thu Jun 23 05:25:11 2005
From: seebs at plethora.net (Peter Seebach)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 22:25:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Welcome to the "Mailman-Users" mailing list
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 23 Jun 2005 05:17:29 +0200."
	<mailman.1896.1119496649.10510.mailman-users@python.org> 
Message-ID: <200506230325.j5N3PBa4004921@guild.plethora.net>

In message <mailman.1896.1119496649.10510.mailman-users at python.org>, mailman-us
ers-request at python.org writes:
>Welcome to the Mailman-Users at python.org mailing list! Don't forget to
>check out the Mailman FAQ at:

Howdy, all!

I have a mysterious mailman migration muddle.

Platform:  NetBSD 2.0.2, with Mailman 2.1.6.
Lists:  Several lists imported from an old Linux box.

Symptoms:  Lists are Not Seen.  Messages sent to mailman aliases (e.g.,
list-subscribe@) are delivered, according to sendmail.  Nothing Happens.  No
log messages anywhere I can find.  No errors.  No bounce.

Admin.cgi doesn't see the lists.

I verify that, yes, I have a list named "mailman".  "newlist mailman" says it 
already exists.

In desperation, I delete that list and rerun newlist mailman.  Now that one
list shows up.  No others do.

Here's the neat part.  I run dbdump on the config.pck files from the old and
new copies of that directory.

*** /tmp/t      Wed Jun 22 22:11:01 2005
--- /tmp/u      Wed Jun 22 22:11:19 2005
***************
*** 2,15 ****
  <----- start object 1 ----->
  {   'accept_these_nonmembers': [],
      'acceptable_aliases': '\n',
!     'admin_immed_notify': True,
      'admin_member_chunksize': 30,
!     'admin_notify_mchanges': False,
      'admin_responses': {},
!     'administrivia': True,
!     'advertised': True,
!     'anonymous_list': False,
!     'archive': True,
      'archive_private': 0,
      'archive_volume_frequency': 1,
      'autorespond_admin': 0,
--- 2,15 ----
  <----- start object 1 ----->
  {   'accept_these_nonmembers': [],
      'acceptable_aliases': '\n',
!     'admin_immed_notify': 1,
      'admin_member_chunksize': 30,
!     'admin_notify_mchanges': 0,
      'admin_responses': {},
!     'administrivia': 1,
!     'advertised': 1,
!     'anonymous_list': 0,
!     'archive': 1,
[...]

See anything suspicious here?

I am wondering whether the "True" vs. "1" distinction could be what is causing
this to fail.

If it is... How do I fix it?  I do not want to delete the lists and start
over, because they have people on them.

I regret to admit that I have at most twenty milliclues about Python in
general, and mailman in particular.  (That said, I am already starting to
think that, if I can figure out how mailman works, I may want to start
migrating things to it from majordomo, because it's prettier.)

-s


From msmith at uss-starlord.org  Thu Jun 23 05:28:01 2005
From: msmith at uss-starlord.org (Michael D. Smith)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 23:28:01 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A question about moving to a new server...
Message-ID: <6.2.3.0.2.20050622231605.0249d7c0@defiant.uss-starlord.org>

I currently run Mailman 2.1.6 on a RH 8.0 server.

I've recently set up a new RHEL 4.0 server and wish to migrate my 
lists from the old server to the new one.

What would be the best way to accomplish same?

The install directory is the same on both machines, if that helps.

Thanks!


Regards,
Mike

msmith at uss-starlord.org 




From jean-philippe.giola at st.com  Thu Jun 23 09:21:02 2005
From: jean-philippe.giola at st.com (Jean-Philippe GIOLA)
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 09:21:02 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] txt files and database
In-Reply-To: <0bff01c57741$cf6acdf0$43c6e2a5@blxp>
References: <42B9239C.6080001@st.com> <0bff01c57741$cf6acdf0$43c6e2a5@blxp>
Message-ID: <42BA62DE.5020106@st.com>

Bill Landry wrote:

> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean-Philippe GIOLA" 
> <jean-philippe.giola at st.com>
>
>> Hi all!
>> nobody has answered me so I ask my question an another time...!
>> I want to know why the mailman's developpers have choosen to store mail
>> for the archives in txt files and not in a database like forums
>
>
> See http://www.list.org/todo.html under the "Portability & 
> architecture" section.

This does not answer my question!!! not at all!
well, it doesn't matter...

>
> Bill
>


-- 
Cordialement,
Jean-Philippe Giola - 6577




From jean-philippe.giola at st.com  Thu Jun 23 10:24:51 2005
From: jean-philippe.giola at st.com (Jean-Philippe GIOLA)
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:24:51 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER
Message-ID: <42BA71D3.8020807@st.com>

Hi all!

I try to use the option PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER but it doesn't work.

I have add this line in mm_cfg.py : PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = 'cat > 
/home/users/jean-philippe_giola/mailman-archive'
so I want to store a mail that is sent in a the 
"/home/users/jean-philippe_giola/mailman-archive" temporary file.
But when I send a mail to a list, it is not written in thi temporary file.

Does someone has an idea of the problem ?
May I have some other option to change ?
is it useful to recompile the mm_cfg.py file or it is done alone ?

reguards

-- 
Cordialement,
Jean-Philippe Giola - 6577




From waterstc+ at pitt.edu  Thu Jun 23 13:58:41 2005
From: waterstc+ at pitt.edu (Thomas Waters)
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 07:58:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need assistance trouble shooting problem after
 moving Mailman from one box to another moving Mailman from one box to
 another
In-Reply-To: <054001c5777c$d5b9a290$43c6e2a5@blxp>
References: <A900CBB5-2609-4646-9AB8-CF380AF0F3C5@pitt.edu>
	<42B8580E.3080709@equinephotoart.com>
	<EAAAA0A4-366D-4C46-966D-2322989B665E@pitt.edu>
	<048d01c57776$389c70b0$43c6e2a5@blxp>
	<53FCE9D1-0530-4C18-A316-06069229918A@pitt.edu>
	<054001c5777c$d5b9a290$43c6e2a5@blxp>
Message-ID: <69EADE9F-807D-4EC2-B6B6-FD332FB5173F@pitt.edu>

OK.  I believe the problem(s) are several, but the biggest one deals  
with postfix and the aliases.

As per check perms.  I ran as check_perms -f and there were a lot of  
lines all ending in (fixing)  but this was at the end of that:

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/check_perms", line 367, in ?
     checkdata()
   File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/check_perms", line 321, in checkdata
     mode = statmode(path)
   File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/check_perms", line 81, in statmode
     return os.stat(path)[ST_MODE]
OSError: [Errno 20] Not a directory: '/private/var/mailman/ 
lists/.DS_Store/config.pck'

As far as rebuilding the aliases table:

rxweb:~ tcwaters$ sudo /usr/share/mailman/bin/genaliases
postalias: fatal: open /private/var/mailman/data/aliases.db:  
Permission denied
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/genaliases", line 116, in ?
     main()
   File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/genaliases", line 106, in main
     MTA.create(mlist, nolock=True, quiet=quiet)
   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 232, in create
     _update_maps()
   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 53, in  
_update_maps
     raise RuntimeError, msg % (acmd, status, errstr)
RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias /private/var/ 
mailman/data/aliases (status: 1, Operation not permitted)

As per the postfix main.cf, here is what is there under aliases:

#alias_maps = dbm:/etc/aliases
#alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases
#alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, nis:mail.aliases
#alias_maps = netinfo:/aliases


doesn't look like there is any reference to mailman, correct?

Now, the web UI for mailman works.  I can add members to lists,  
delete members, etc.  The archives show up fine.  The issue is  
surrounding postfix and mailman talking to each other.


Messages being sent to the server get this returned after a while:
Your message has been enqueued and undeliverable for 1 day
to the following recipients:

   Recipient address: tcwaters at pharmacy.pitt.edu
   Reason: unable to deliver this message after 1 day

Delivery attempt history for your mail:

Wed, 22 Jun 2005 23:32:29 -0400 (EDT)
TCP active open: Failed connect()    Error: connection refused

Please note.  tcwaters at pharmacy.pitt.edu is not a mailman list, just  
an email acct.  so maybe the problem is with postfix and not with  
Mailman.  Or in my attempts to fix the mailman problem, I created  
other problems.


Thx,


On Jun 22, 2005, at 6:50 PM, Bill Landry wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Thomas Waters
> To: Bill Landry
> Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 3:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Need assistance trouble shooting  
> problem after moving Mailman from one box to another moving Mailman  
> from one box to another
>
>
> On Jun 22, 2005, at 6:03 PM, Bill Landry wrote:
>
>> You should have an entry in your Postfix main.cf like (pointing to  
>> your correct aliases paths):
>>
>> alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/aliases, hash:/usr/local/mailman/ 
>> data/aliases
>
> This may be a part of the problem.  I looked at the file and  
> neither of these exist.  But the lines allso have # so I thought  
> those were comments...
>
>> This will report any incorrect file/group permissions, or, to  
>> correct any file/group permissions issues, run as root:
>>
>> check_perms -f
>
> This seemed to work I believe. a number of lines said fixed.
>
>>> How do I rebuild the aliases.db file?
>>>
>>
>> bin/genaliases
> Here is what I get here:
>
> rxweb:~ tcwaters$ sudo /usr/share/mailman/bin/genaliases
> postalias: fatal: open /private/var/mailman/data/aliases.db:  
> Permission denied
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/genaliases", line 116, in ?
>     main()
>   File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/genaliases", line 106, in main
>     MTA.create(mlist, nolock=True, quiet=quiet)
>   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 232, in  
> create
>     _update_maps()
>   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 53, in  
> _update_maps
>     raise RuntimeError, msg % (acmd, status, errstr)
> RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias /private/var/ 
> mailman/data/aliases (status: 1, Operation not permitted)
>
> Hmmm, where exactly do your Mailmail aliases files live?  There  
> appears to be some be some conflict in the paths shown above.  Try  
> executing the genaliases command from the mailman top-level  
> directory as:
>
>     sudo bin/genaliases
>
> and see if that works for you.  Also, please keep posts and replies  
> on the list, helps to build the archive for future reference.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bill
>



From dina8 at cox.net  Thu Jun 23 16:06:48 2005
From: dina8 at cox.net (Dina Hornreich)
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 10:06:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no mail
Message-ID: <003d01c577fc$cc1a8080$98c60944@Dina>

Hi there:

I manage a list called typical girls at http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/typicalgirls .

It seems that after I update my e-mail address, i haven't been receiving posts despite NOT having selected "no mail." Also, the info page has half an e-mail address where it says to post to.

Can anyone help me?

-Dina

dina8 at cox.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~dinahornreich

From cpz at tuunq.com  Thu Jun 23 17:46:35 2005
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 08:46:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] txt files and database
In-Reply-To: <42BA62DE.5020106@st.com> from Jean-Philippe GIOLA at "Jun 23,
	2005 09:21:02 am"
Message-ID: <20050623154635.086BB7AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Jean-Philippe GIOLA wrote:
> Bill Landry wrote:

> > <jean-philippe.giola at st.com>

> >> nobody has answered me so I ask my question an another time...!

I'd have thought that the answer fairly was obvious...

> >> I want to know why the mailman's developpers have choosen to store mail
> >> for the archives in txt files and not in a database like forums

> > See http://www.list.org/todo.html under the "Portability & 
> > architecture" section.

> This does not answer my question!!! not at all! well, it doesn't matter...

No, it really doesn't. Without getting in the minds of the developers:
* virtually every OS is packaged with facilities for reading/writing text files
* text files are dead easy to fix
* text files are fast for most operations, esp sequential reads and appends
* if you don't need to modify/remove rows of a table, a database becomes
  extra overhead
* just about all system managers/admins understand text files
* you can embed documentation in the text files
* text files are easy to program
* most, if not all, enterprise-quality MTAs configure from text files

I'm sure there are more reasons, but I guess that might not answer the
question, either.  One could certainly ask, "Why should the mail archives
be in a database?" I won't though.

I will note that mailman keeps parts of it's configs in python pck files, 
which are not text at all.

z!



From dennis.putnam at aimaudit.com  Thu Jun 23 17:46:45 2005
From: dennis.putnam at aimaudit.com (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:46:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message unparsable
Message-ID: <b5451c66b590b8069acfd1f5e4a349cd@aimaudit.com>

I am having a problem with some message not being distributed. When I 
look at the error file I can see this:

Jun 23 11:34:34 2005 (3512) message is unparsable: 
1119540873.457257+d314fcd9d886c11a670875a479fab98a5fdbde1e
Jun 23 11:34:34 2005 (3512) lost data files for filebase: 
1119540873.457257+d314fcd9d886c11a670875a479fab98a5fdbde1e

I don't know where the message went so I can look at it but the copy 
the poster sent direct to me looks fine. How do I figure out what is 
wrong with either the message or Mailman? TIA.

Dennis Putnam
Sr. IT Systems Administrator
AIM Systems, Inc.
11675 Rainwater Dr., Suite 200
Alpharetta, GA  30004
Phone: 678-240-4112
Main Phone: 678-297-0700
FAX: 678-297-2666 or 770-576-1000
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments is 
strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, 
dissemination, distribution, or duplication of any part of this e-mail 
or any attachment is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all copies, 
including the attachments.



From Mlinval at css.edu  Thu Jun 23 19:40:19 2005
From: Mlinval at css.edu (Michael Linval)
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 12:40:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML woes
Message-ID: <s2baadbb.092@css.edu>

I have read all the past posts I can find.  All I want to do is allow
html messages.  Is there any documentation other than the posts that
talk about this?
 
 


From heather at madrone.com  Thu Jun 23 20:16:14 2005
From: heather at madrone.com (Heather Madrone)
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:16:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] txt files and database
In-Reply-To: <20050623154635.086BB7AE@mail.tuunq.com>
References: <20050623154635.086BB7AE@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <p06210236bee0ac4ba866@[192.168.123.100]>

At 8:46 AM -0700 6/23/05, Carl Zwanzig wrote:
>No, it really doesn't. Without getting in the minds of the developers:
>* virtually every OS is packaged with facilities for reading/writing text files
>* text files are dead easy to fix
>* text files are fast for most operations, esp sequential reads and appends
>* if you don't need to modify/remove rows of a table, a database becomes
>  extra overhead
>* just about all system managers/admins understand text files
>* you can embed documentation in the text files
>* text files are easy to program
>* most, if not all, enterprise-quality MTAs configure from text files
>
>I'm sure there are more reasons, but I guess that might not answer the
>question, either.

They're in Unix mailbox format, which has been a standard on many
systems (Eudora still uses it on my Mac) since the 1970s.  You need a
really good reason to go from a standard format to a non-standard format.

-- 
Heather Madrone  (heather at madrone.com)  http://www.madrone.com

Whenever a question asks "Either / or?"
The answer is usually "Both...and more." 



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Jun 23 19:50:33 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 12:50:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML woes
In-Reply-To: <s2baadbb.092@css.edu>
References: <s2baadbb.092@css.edu>
Message-ID: <p06200728bee0a67eb05c@[192.168.1.101]>

At 12:40 PM -0500 2005-06-23, Michael Linval wrote:

>  I have read all the past posts I can find.  All I want to do is allow
>  html messages.

	Then post messages in HTML, and don't filter them out.

>                  Is there any documentation other than the posts that
>  talk about this?

	Did you search the FAQ Wizard or the archives of the mailing list?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From dojai at ufv.br  Fri Jun 24 01:07:56 2005
From: dojai at ufv.br (Eduardo Jaime Quiros Batres)
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 20:07:56 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with permissions?
Message-ID: <200506232007.57056.dojai@ufv.br>

I have mailman 2.1.4 on a mandrake 10.0 and have upgraded msec to version 
msec-0.44.2-1mdk but I still get a bug error when I try to confirm a 
subscription to a list.

I runned check_permissions -f and it didn't work, I gave a chwon apache.mail 
on all the /var/log/mailman subdirectory and it still didn't work and I also 
gave a chown 664 on /var/mailman/log and the error is:


Jun 23 19:57:00 2005 admin(3952): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(3952): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.4 -----]
admin(3952): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(3952): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(3952):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in run_main
admin(3952):     main()
admin(3952):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/confirm.py", line 110, in 
main
admin(3952):     subscription_confirm(mlist, doc, cookie, cgidata)
admin(3952):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/confirm.py", line 333, in 
subscription_confirm
admin(3952):     op, addr, pw, digest, lang = mlist.ProcessConfirmation(
admin(3952):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 1120, in 
ProcessConfirmation
admin(3952):     self.HoldSubscription(addr, fullname, password, digest, lang)
admin(3952):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 391, in 
HoldSubscription
admin(3952):     assert not self.__db.has_key(id)
admin(3952): AssertionError
admin(3952): [----- Python Information -----]
admin(3952): sys.version     =   2.3.3 (#2, Feb  9 2005, 13:57:58)
[GCC 3.3.2 (Mandrakelinux 10.0 3.3.2-9mdk)]
admin(3952): sys.executable  =   /usr/bin/python
admin(3952): sys.prefix      =   /usr
admin(3952): sys.exec_prefix =   /usr
admin(3952): sys.path        =   /usr
admin(3952): sys.platform    =   linux2
admin(3952): [----- Environment Variables -----]
admin(3952):    HTTP_REFERER: 
http://www.listas.ufv.br/mailman/confirm/asav/4fdab990332551dc8a6efa940996de2f20c6b46a
admin(3952):    SERVER_SOFTWARE: Apache-AdvancedExtranetServer/2.0.48 
(Mandrake Linux/6.8.100mdk) mod_perl/1.99_11 Perl/v5.
8.3 mod_ssl/2.0.48 OpenSSL/0.9.7c PHP/4.3.4
admin(3952):    SCRIPT_NAME: /mailman/confirm
admin(3952):    SERVER_SIGNATURE: 
<address>Apache-AdvancedExtranetServer/2.0.48 (Mandrake Linux/6.8.100mdk) 
mod_perl/1.99_1
1 Perl/v5.8.3 mod_ssl/2.0.48 OpenSSL/0.9.7c PHP/4.3.4 Server at 
aton.cpd.ufv.br Port 80</address>
admin(3952):
admin(3952):    REQUEST_METHOD: POST
admin(3952):    PATH_INFO: /asav
admin(3952):    SERVER_PROTOCOL: HTTP/1.1
admin(3952):    QUERY_STRING:
admin(3952):    CONTENT_LENGTH: 116
admin(3952):    HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET: iso-8859-1, utf-8;q=0.5, *;q=0.5
admin(3952):    HTTP_USER_AGENT: Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Konqueror/3.2; 
Linux) KHTML/3.2.3 (like Gecko)
admin(3952):    HTTP_CONNECTION: Keep-Alive
admin(3952):    SERVER_NAME: aton.cpd.ufv.br
admin(3952):    REMOTE_ADDR: 200.131.231.97
admin(3952):    PATH_TRANSLATED: /var/www/html/asav
admin(3952):    SERVER_PORT: 80
admin(3952):    SERVER_ADDR: 200.131.233.133
admin(3952):    DOCUMENT_ROOT: /var/www/html
admin(3952):    HTTP_PRAGMA: no-cache
admin(3952):    PYTHONPATH: /usr/lib/mailman
admin(3952):    SCRIPT_FILENAME: /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/confirm
admin(3952):    SERVER_ADMIN: root at localhost
admin(3952):    HTTP_HOST: www.listas.ufv.br
admin(3952):    HTTP_CACHE_CONTROL: no-cache
admin(3952):    REQUEST_URI: /mailman/confirm/asav
admin(3952):    HTTP_ACCEPT: text/html, image/jpeg, image/png, text/*, 
image/*, */*
admin(3952):    GATEWAY_INTERFACE: CGI/1.1
admin(3952):    REMOTE_PORT: 33031
admin(3952):    HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE: pt, en
admin(3952):    CONTENT_TYPE: application/x-www-form-urlencoded
admin(3952):    HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING: x-gzip, x-deflate, gzip, deflate


-- 
Eduardo Jaime Quir?s Batres - dojai at ufv.br
 


From bwise at bwise.net.au  Fri Jun 24 10:08:28 2005
From: bwise at bwise.net.au (Benjamin Wise)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:08:28 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't Send mail to the list
Message-ID: <9EBB36E0C1B50D41A922B6280D2AEF029279A6@smtp-syd.sharmannetworks.com>

I am bit of newbie to mailman but here is the situation

 

On Freebsd 4.11stable I'm running a jail called testjail.[domainname].com.

 

Inside the jail I have used the ports to install mailman, webmin and
sendmail

 

The problem is every time I send an email to the list.
list at testjail.[domainname].com <mailto:list at testjail.%5bdomainname%5d.com> 

 

I receive the following error message




<list at testjail.[domainname].com>:

[IP address] does not like recipient.

Remote host said: 550 5.1.1 <list at testjail.[domainname].com>... User unknown
Giving up on [IP Adress].

 

Mail to users of the system work fine but for some reason I can't send to
the list.

 

Would appreciate any help

 

Cheers

 

Ben



From dennis.putnam at aimaudit.com  Fri Jun 24 13:32:29 2005
From: dennis.putnam at aimaudit.com (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 07:32:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message Unparsable
Message-ID: <ef8b98f8a89b680b484339b8f9a5b249@aimaudit.com>

After some research I have concluded that the errors I am getting from  
Mailman are because of a malformed MIME content. Since I am creating  
the message myself with a php page I am not surprised (my first time).   
Since this probably is a MIME issue I know this is not the correct  
forum. However, I am posting the suspect raw data here in the hopes  
someone is familiar enough with MIME to spot the problem. At the very  
least perhaps someone can point me to a good MIME forum. TIA.

Here is the MIME format message body for the problem message (I omitted  
the routing headers):

MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundry="!!!---===123_4567_890===---!!!"
Message-Id: <20050623155729.64EDAAC70E at aimwebserver.aimaudit.com>



--!!!---===123_4567_890===---!!!
Content-Type: text/html; x-unix-mode=0644; name="application.html"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: attachment; name="application.html"

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01  
Transitional//EN"><html><head><title>Application for  
Employment</title><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;  
charset=iso-8859-1"></head><body><br><br>
<html><head><style  
type="text/css"><!--body,p,div,span,td,input,textarea {	font-family:  
"Times New Roman", Times, serif;	font-size: 10pt;}h4  
{	page-break-before: always;}--></style></head><body  
onLoad="window.resizeTo(770,920)"><h2 align="right">test, test  
test</h2>
.
etc, etc, etc
.
</body></html>
--!!!---===123_4567_890===---!!!
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
content-type: application/msword; name="IT Labels.doc"

0M8R4KGxGuEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPgADAP7/ 
CQAGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAKwAAAAAAAAAA
EAAALQAAAAEAAAD+////AAAAACoAAAD//////////////////////////////////////// 
/////
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 
/////
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 
/////
.
etc, etc, etc
.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 
AAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAA

--!!!---===123_4567_890===---!!!--

End of MIME formatted message body

Dennis Putnam
Sr. IT Systems Administrator
AIM Systems, Inc.
11675 Rainwater Dr., Suite 200
Alpharetta, GA  30004
Phone: 678-240-4112
Main Phone: 678-297-0700
FAX: 678-297-2666 or 770-576-1000
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments is  
strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use,  
dissemination, distribution, or duplication of any part of this e-mail  
or any attachment is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient,  
please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all copies,  
including the attachments.



From jean-philippe.giola at st.com  Fri Jun 24 13:57:37 2005
From: jean-philippe.giola at st.com (Jean-Philippe GIOLA)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 13:57:37 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman configuration
Message-ID: <42BBF531.5020709@st.com>

Hi all
I'm configuring mailman and I have this error :
"Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be 
executed as group "mail", but the system's mail server executed the mail 
script as group "nobody"

Does someone have un idea ?

reguards

-- 
Cordialement,
Jean-Philippe Giola - 6577




From lists05 at equinephotoart.com  Fri Jun 24 17:25:13 2005
From: lists05 at equinephotoart.com (JC Dill)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 08:25:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman configuration
In-Reply-To: <42BBF531.5020709@st.com>
References: <42BBF531.5020709@st.com>
Message-ID: <42BC25D9.5040509@equinephotoart.com>

Jean-Philippe GIOLA wrote:
> Hi all
> I'm configuring mailman and I have this error :
> "Group mismatch error.  Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be 
> executed as group "mail", but the system's mail server executed the mail 
> script as group "nobody"
> 
> Does someone have un idea ?

In the footer of every post you receive from the mailman list is a link 
to the mailman FAQ:

 >Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Search on:  Group mismatch error

<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=Group+mismatch+error&querytype=simple&casefold=yes&req=search>

and you will find 2 FAQ entries that explain what you need to fix.

jc



From rdembski at sbcglobal.net  Fri Jun 24 07:14:02 2005
From: rdembski at sbcglobal.net (rdembski at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:14:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe not functioning
Message-ID: <20050624051402.50371.qmail@web80107.mail.yahoo.com>

External subscribing is not working thru either the
web interface or the list-subscribe at hostname.org
method.  There is no confirmation message being
sent...  I can subscribe locally thru email, can
manually add addresses thru the admin interface, and
can even send/receive list mail from any
already-subscribed address with no problem.

I've looked thru the FAQ, the FAQ wizard, searched
this lists' archives the best I can, and still cannot
find anything similar enough to suggest a problem/fix.

I'm using Mailman 2.1.6rc4, Exim 3 on Debian GNU/Linux
3.

Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 
Thanks.


From lists05 at equinephotoart.com  Fri Jun 24 21:18:18 2005
From: lists05 at equinephotoart.com (JC Dill)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 12:18:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Head's UP - we changed administrivia settings for
 the mailman-users and -dev lists
Message-ID: <42BC5C7A.5020101@equinephotoart.com>

Because the mailman-users and mailman-developers lists frequently 
discuss administrivia matters and because most users on these lists know 
how to properly email the list server for administrivia tasks, most 
administrivia filter matches to these lists are false positives.

We have just changed the list config to no longer try to filter out 
administrivia requests.  When you send email to unsubscribe or otherwise 
change your list settings be *extra* careful to send your request to the 
server address and not the list submission address, lest your mistake go 
out to the whole list.  (You probably won't like the flames this is 
likely to produce.)

jc - volunteer assistant list admin for -users and -dev




From dojai at ufv.br  Fri Jun 24 21:50:26 2005
From: dojai at ufv.br (Eduardo Jaime Quiros Batres)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:50:26 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with permissions?
Message-ID: <200506241650.26731.dojai@ufv.br>

I reported a problem with mailman 2.1.4 and mandrake 10.0 that after I applied 
the correction on msec it still didn't work.
Well I removed the lists created recently and created again and all went well.

thanks to all.

------------------ original report follows ----------------

I have mailman 2.1.4 on a mandrake 10.0 and have upgraded msec to version 
msec-0.44.2-1mdk but I still get a bug error when I try to confirm a 
subscription to a list.

I runned check_permissions -f and it didn't work, I gave a chwon apache.mail 
on all the /var/log/mailman subdirectory and it still didn't work and I also 
gave a chown 664 on /var/mailman/log and the error is:

 ... (....) ...

-- 
Eduardo Jaime Quir?s Batres - dojai at ufv.br
 


From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Fri Jun 24 22:57:08 2005
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 05:57:08 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message Unparsable
In-Reply-To: <ef8b98f8a89b680b484339b8f9a5b249@aimaudit.com>
References: <ef8b98f8a89b680b484339b8f9a5b249@aimaudit.com>
Message-ID: <42BC73A4.9040401@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi,

Dennis Putnam wrote:

> After some research I have concluded that the errors I am getting from  
> Mailman are because of a malformed MIME content. Since I am creating  
> the message myself with a php page I am not surprised (my first time).   
> Since this probably is a MIME issue I know this is not the correct  
> forum. However, I am posting the suspect raw data here in the hopes  
> someone is familiar enough with MIME to spot the problem. At the very  
> least perhaps someone can point me to a good MIME forum. TIA.
> 
> Here is the MIME format message body for the problem message (I omitted  
> the routing headers):
> 
> MIME-version: 1.0
> Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundry="!!!---===123_4567_890===---!!!"
                                  ^^^^^^^
This should be 'boundary' not -dry.

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/



From mailman at epic.org  Sat Jun 25 00:12:02 2005
From: mailman at epic.org (postal worker)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:12:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Qrunner unsticking
In-Reply-To: <42BC5C7A.5020101@equinephotoart.com>
References: <42BC5C7A.5020101@equinephotoart.com>
Message-ID: <p0621020dbee2346b6107@[192.168.1.71]>

So I have a qrunner lock issue.

I followed: 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=edit&file=faq04.019.htp

and got to the strace step:

	mailman:/var/log/mailman# strace -f -p 18805
	read(6,

But where do I find the offending message that's causing 18805 to stall?



From watson.allen at gmail.com  Sat Jun 25 01:20:50 2005
From: watson.allen at gmail.com (Allen Watson)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:20:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Odd notification problem
Message-ID: <c4feebf505062416203f62141@mail.gmail.com>

I have a list set up with two addresses as Administrator, and with the
option checked to notify the administrator of subscriptions and
unsubscribe requests. (No approval needed for either.) This was
working fine until recently, when I changed some options on this and a
number of lists to have just a single admin. The second party
requested that he be added back, which I did. And I probably changed
something else because this is the weird result:

I am receiving unsubscribe notices, but NOT subscribe notices. How
that is possible, since there is only a single checkbox to control it,
I do not know.

The other guy is receiving subscribe notices, and I do not know yet if
he is getting the unsubscribe notices.

Our names are specified in the same box in the General Options page.
How can we be receiving different things?

The only thing I can think of is that I am also given as Moderator,
and he is not.

Any ideas? 

This is very important to me, because when someone subscribes and I am
notified, my mail client is set up to respond with certain replies,
including sending a PDF attachment to the new subscriber. Currently
that isn't happening because I am not getting the notices.


From watson.allen at gmail.com  Sat Jun 25 01:41:11 2005
From: watson.allen at gmail.com (Allen Watson)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:41:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Odd notification problem
In-Reply-To: <c4feebf505062416203f62141@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c4feebf505062416203f62141@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c4feebf50506241641656dcca3@mail.gmail.com>

As often happens, posting here led to solving the problem for myself.
Turns out I had a mail rule that was supposed to be catching and
replying to the notices; it was failing. A subsequent rule was
deleting *-bounce notification messages (under the assumption that all
the ones I wanted to do something about had already been handled).

Nothing wrong with Mailman.

On 6/24/05, Allen Watson <watson.allen at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have a list set up with two addresses as Administrator, and with the
> option checked to notify the administrator of subscriptions and
> unsubscribe requests. (No approval needed for either.) This was
> working fine until recently, when I changed some options on this and a
> number of lists to have just a single admin. The second party
> requested that he be added back, which I did. And I probably changed
> something else because this is the weird result:
> 
> I am receiving unsubscribe notices, but NOT subscribe notices. How
> that is possible, since there is only a single checkbox to control it,
> I do not know.
> 
> The other guy is receiving subscribe notices, and I do not know yet if
> he is getting the unsubscribe notices.
> 
> Our names are specified in the same box in the General Options page.
> How can we be receiving different things?
> 
> The only thing I can think of is that I am also given as Moderator,
> and he is not.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> This is very important to me, because when someone subscribes and I am
> notified, my mail client is set up to respond with certain replies,
> including sending a PDF attachment to the new subscriber. Currently
> that isn't happening because I am not getting the notices.
>


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun 25 20:43:34 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 11:43:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pipermail+archives
In-Reply-To: <42B2F2BD.3070207@equinephotoart.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506251143340720fbc6dbb2@msapiro>

JC Dill wrote:

>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> Jean-Philippe GIOLA wrote:
>> 
>>>I have seen in the list I use that these 2 headers are not all the times 
>>>existing, even if the mail that has been sent is an answer.
>>>Perhaps it depends of the MUA.
>> 
>> Yes, it depends on the MUA. The standard says these headers SHOULD be
>> included, not that they MUST be, so it is not wrong to omit them and
>> not all MUAs include them.
>
>This will also happen most of the time when the reply user is on digest, 
>because the digest has no reference header to the single article they 
>are replying to.  The exception may be if they are getting the digest 
>type that their email client can explode back into individual articles - 
>and if Mailman includes the reference header with the individual 
>articles.  Since I don't "do" digests, I don't know what the details are 
>with this type of digest and if threading works in this case or not. 
>Someone who knows more about this type of digest may be able to give 
>input on if it retains the references header for each post.

Yes. MIME format digests retain Message-ID:, References: and
In-Reply-To: headers from the individual messages so if the user's MUA
shows the individual message parts as separate messages that can be
separately replied to, and if the MUA properly creates References:
and/or In-Reply-To: headers in the reply, then threading will be
maintained.

Plain text format digests retain the Message-ID: header, but not any
References: or In-Reply-To: headers from the original post. In this
case, a sufficiently aware MUA that can explode the digest could still
create an In-Reply-To: header in a reply that would allow proper
threading, but few if any popular MUAs can do this.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Jun 25 20:57:21 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 11:57:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] assistance
In-Reply-To: <018501c5736f$3fae7890$5b505a64@windows489dfc5>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506251157210970fbc6dc9f@msapiro>

Jean Touma wrote:
>
>I am running Mailman 2.1.5p1 on my site and it is working fine but I need to send the messages to a personalized email address and not a bulk email address which is the listname at thehostingerver of my list my list name is: emaillist my hosting server is mydomain.com so all my messages go to emaillist at mydomain.com I don't want that I want all emails go to user1 at domain1 user2 at domain2 etc... I know how to personalize a header and a footer but how can I personalize the email address?

If you have sufficient access to the Mailman installation, put

OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes

in mm_cfg.py and restart Mailman. If you're already personalizing
headers and/or footers, then this is already enabled.

To personalize the e-mail address, go to the list's Non-digest options
page and set 'personalize' to 'Full Personalization'.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mail at storydynamics.com  Sun Jun 26 00:49:26 2005
From: mail at storydynamics.com (Doug Lipman)
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 17:49:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman was working, then stopped
Message-ID: <p06210221bee38590ac23@[10.0.1.3]>

Hi, my Mailman lists (Mailman 2.1.5 on Red Hat) were working fine for 
over a year. Then, about a month ago, they stopped working. (My last 
administrator email came May 30.) I don't know why. When I send 
messages to a list, no messages are sent out. I'm also not receiving 
any administrative messages.

I do know that I had neglected the "Moderator Requests" for quite a 
while. One list had 88 spam messages awaiting me. Now, however, when 
I go to the Adminstration Page, there are "no pending requests."

I have run /usr/local/mailman/bin/check_perms and get "No problems 
found". Then cron daemon appears to be running (although I don't know 
what the "May30" here means and if it's a clue to why the lists 
stopped sending on May 30):

>[root at server mailman]#      ps -aux |grep cron |grep -v grep
>root      2554  0.0  0.0  1440  132 ?        S    May30   0:05 crond

The aliases all appear to still be intact. The administrative pages 
appear to work and give the correct list of members as well as 
archived messages.

Does anyone have any thoughts on what might have gone wrong?

Thanks!
Doug Lipman
-- 

***********************************************************************
Doug Lipman, P.O. Box 521165, Tulsa, OK 74152 
Phone: (918) 712-7336. Fax: (206) 202-7719. Toll-free: (888) 446-4738
Story Dynamics?: workshops, performances, coaching

Web page: http://www.storydynamics.com
         Free monthly email newsletter, "eTips from the Storytelling Coach."
         "A wonderful, chock full of provocative ideas, storytelling 
newsletter. I like it a lot!" - Loretta Greene (Tempe, AZ)

Upcoming workshops: http://www.storydynamics.com/upcoming
The Soul of Hope: http://www.SoulOfHope.net
The Hasidic Stories Home Page: http://www.HasidicStories.com

***********************************************************************


From ler at lerctr.org  Sun Jun 26 01:37:44 2005
From: ler at lerctr.org (Larry Rosenman)
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2005 19:37:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman was working, then stopped
In-Reply-To: <p06210221bee38590ac23@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <E1DmKEP-00027j-VZ@lerami.lerctr.org>

What about your Queue Runners?

 ps auxx|grep -i QR 

If they aren't running, that's your problem.


-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 972-414-9812                 E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
US Mail: 3535 Gaspar Drive, Dallas, TX 75220-3611 US




From Poster at aurora.cotse.net  Sun Jun 26 08:10:59 2005
From: Poster at aurora.cotse.net (Poster)
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 02:10:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SuSe 9.3 / Mailman / Python 2.4-14: cannot read
 wrapper configuration file
Message-ID: <MTExOTc2NjI1OS5hdXJvcmE.1119766259@dissimulo.com>


Greetings everyone. I'm using SuSe 9.3 with the suppled Mailman and
Python and I'm running smack dab into the dreaded "Cannot read wrapper
configuration file" error. This is obtained when I try to send mail to
aliases for a list, or when I try to execute any of Mailman's CGI
programs through the web interface.

I've checked the gid files and both are set to group 67 -- the mailman
group. The gid files are owned by mailman/mailman, as is everything in
the mailman cgi-bin directory (which I've moved under the apache
cgi-bin just for convienience). Apache's configuration files give all
users the ability to see and execute the cgi-bin scripts in /cgi-bin
and in /cgi-bin/mailman.

The log files are no help and there's not much info on this on the
Net, or even in the archives. (All the mail error logs tell me is that
it died on signal 8 because it was unable to read wrapper
configuration file.)

Any ideas?

Thanks,
~Poster



From mail at storydynamics.com  Sun Jun 26 15:12:05 2005
From: mail at storydynamics.com (Doug Lipman)
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 08:12:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman was working, then stopped
Message-ID: <p06210225bee45a1d734a@[10.0.1.3]>

Problem solved! Thanks for the phone call, Larry. You were terrific. 
Knowledgeable and generous.

For anyone else with this same problem, the solution was to restart 
the qrunners and make sure they were set to start on reboot.

On my Redhat system, this meant:

>bin/mailmanctl start

after which ps auxxw|grep -i QR gave an eight-line return.

To set the Queue Runners to start on reboot:

>chkconfig --level 23 --add mailman

That was all!

Doug

>What about your Queue Runners?
>
>  ps auxx|grep -i QR
>
>If they aren't running, that's your problem.
>
>
>--
>Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
>Phone: +1 972-414-9812                 E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
>US Mail: 3535 Gaspar Drive, Dallas, TX 75220-3611 US


-- 

***********************************************************************
Doug Lipman, P.O. Box 521165, Tulsa, OK 74152 
Phone: (918) 712-7336. Fax: (206) 202-7719. Toll-free: (888) 446-4738
Story Dynamics?: workshops, performances, coaching

Web page: http://www.storydynamics.com
         Free monthly email newsletter, "eTips from the Storytelling Coach."
         "A wonderful, chock full of provocative ideas, storytelling 
newsletter. I like it a lot!" - Loretta Greene (Tempe, AZ)

Upcoming workshops: http://www.storydynamics.com/upcoming
The Soul of Hope: http://www.SoulOfHope.net
The Hasidic Stories Home Page: http://www.HasidicStories.com

***********************************************************************


From dina8 at cox.net  Sun Jun 26 15:38:52 2005
From: dina8 at cox.net (Dina Hornreich)
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 09:38:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman was working, then stopped
Message-ID: <002101c57a54$643391f0$98c60944@Dina>

This is my problem-- but I don't understand the solution!
Can someone translate this solution for me?

"What about your Queue Runners?
ps auxx|grep -i QR 
If they aren't running, that's your problem."

Thanks....

Dina Hornreich
http://home.earthlink.net/~dinahornreich

From Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de  Sun Jun 26 15:42:27 2005
From: Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de (Ralf Hildebrandt)
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 15:42:27 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman was working, then stopped
In-Reply-To: <002101c57a54$643391f0$98c60944@Dina>
References: <002101c57a54$643391f0$98c60944@Dina>
Message-ID: <20050626134227.GA21204@charite.de>

* Dina Hornreich <dina8 at cox.net>:
> This is my problem-- but I don't understand the solution!
> Can someone translate this solution for me?
> 
> "What about your Queue Runners?
> ps auxx|grep -i QR 
> If they aren't running, that's your problem."

Into what? If you run a *nix server, you should know what this is about.
So, is the queue runner running (the above command will tell you)
If it isn't it needs to be started as documented.

-- 
Ralf Hildebrandt (i.A. des IT-Zentrums)         Ralf.Hildebrandt at charite.de
Charite - Universit?tsmedizin Berlin            Tel.  +49 (0)30-450 570-155
Gemeinsame Einrichtung von FU- und HU-Berlin    Fax.  +49 (0)30-450 570-962
IT-Zentrum Standort CBF                 send no mail to spamtrap at charite.de


From ler at lerctr.org  Sun Jun 26 15:44:18 2005
From: ler at lerctr.org (Larry Rosenman)
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 09:44:18 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman was working, then stopped
In-Reply-To: <002101c57a54$643391f0$98c60944@Dina>
Message-ID: <E1DmXRi-0004r4-7X@lerami.lerctr.org>

Dina Hornreich wrote:
> This is my problem-- but I don't understand the solution!
> Can someone translate this solution for me?
> 
> "What about your Queue Runners?
> ps auxx|grep -i QR
> If they aren't running, that's your problem."
> 
> Thanks....
That is a ps command (process status (with a bug, see below), and a grep
command looking for the 
Mailman qrunner processes.

Issue the following command on your system (assumes Linux or a BSD based
system):

 ps auxxw|grep  -i qr 

This will look through the processes running on your system and if it
doesn't show 8 lines 
Then your queue runners aren't running. 

If they aren't running, issue as root:

/path/to/mailman/home/bin/mailmanctl start

And arrange for that command to be issued at system boot.

LER


-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 972-414-9812                 E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
US Mail: 3535 Gaspar Drive, Dallas, TX 75220-3611 US



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun 26 17:10:43 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 08:10:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] customizing the main listinfo page
In-Reply-To: <BAY101-DAV7681D1E93A9D1C51198ACD7F40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506260810430453d4c25330@msapiro>

SAA wrote:

>Hello, I was wondering how can I customize the header for the main
>
> 
>
>http://listserver.mdpls.net/mailman/listinfo   so that I can put my company
>name and logo? I was able to customize some other pages like the info for
>the list page. Thank a mill for all your help

Unlike some other pages (including listinfo for a specific list) which
are built from editable templates, the main listinfo page is built on
the fly by Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py which must be hacked to change the
page.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun 26 17:59:50 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 08:59:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cleanup From: and CC:
In-Reply-To: <69654C1963C8F64FA560BCC6ECD12B3A0373C6C7@FTL1MSEX01.citco.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506260859500156236761ce@msapiro>

Pantejo, Barbara wrote:

>I just set up a new mailing list and sent a test email (see below). I was
>wondering how to change From: information...I would like the entry in the
>CC: field (testlist at listhost.test.com) placed in the From: field and have
>CC: field empty. How do I configure this?

Do not set the list for Full Personalization.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun 26 18:09:44 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 09:09:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message substitution
In-Reply-To: <20050621070106.1BA80B67BA@smtp.metroic.no>
Message-ID: <PC174020050626090944035944ca6db3@msapiro>

Johan Fredrik ?hman wrote:

>Is it possible to inclue %(user_optionsurl)s in the body of a message, and
>make Mailman dynamically replace it?  I know it is possible with header and
>footer.

Making substitutions in the message body would require serious code
hacking. You would not only have to do the substitution, but also
account for the fact that a message body (such as this one) could
contain arbitrary things that look like substitutions but aren't
supposed to be substituted.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Jun 26 18:59:47 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 09:59:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bouncing
In-Reply-To: <9DEB82D0-AAB1-4E0C-A84D-7DD23EADF1EC@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506260959470218860865a9@msapiro>

PeteBell wrote:
>
>Every so often I get a message, as list admin, that soemone has been  
>"removed" from the list (NOT "unsubscribed", but "removed").
>
>1. Does this mean they have been deleted because of persistent bounces?

This message comes from the adminunsubscribeack.txt template. This
template is used by the ApprovedDeleteMember() method to notify the
administrator when admin_notify_mchanges is true.
ApprovedDeleteMember() is used by bounce processing, but it is also
used directly or indirectly for most (all?) unsubscribes for any
reason.

So the real question is do you ever get a notice that says
"unsubscribed" rather than "removed".

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 27 04:01:32 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 19:01:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple subscription requests and reminders
In-Reply-To: <42B8BB96.9040506@digitalmente.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402005062619013207656d9bb5bd@msapiro>

Bruno Ferreira wrote:
>
>>>          The problem I'm having is that subscription confirmation 
>>> e-mails arrive in duplicate or quadruplicate (!!!!). Plus, 
>>> subscription  reminders come in even larger quantities. The 
>>> "subscribe" log shows  apparently independent subscription requests, 
>>> so I'm kinda stumped on what's causing this.
>>
>>     What exactly is in your MTA logs?  What is in your Mailman logs? 
>> Can you show us some examples of duplicate messages, with all the 
>> headers intact?
>
>
>    Mailman subscribe log (machine/email addresses changes to protect 
>the customer :):
>    ----
>
>    Jun 22 01:33:29 2005 (3305) mailinglist: pending 
>destination at server.com  destination at server.com
>    Jun 22 01:33:29 2005 (3305) mailinglist: pending 
>destination at server.com  destination at server.com
>    Jun 22 01:33:29 2005 (3305) mailinglist: pending 
>destination at server.com  destination at server.com
>    Jun 22 01:33:29 2005 (3305) mailinglist: pending 
>destination at server.com  destination at server.com

This indicates that Mailman processed the subscribe request 4 times.
Everything else you provided is consistent with this and thus adds
nothing more.

The question is why is Mailman processing the request 4 times. Is it a
bug in mailman or does mailman actually receive 4 requests?

Does the request arrive via the web interface (subscribe form on the
listinfo page) or via e-mail. If from the web, what do the web servers
logs say about how many 'post' transactions were processed? If via
mail, what do the incoming MTA logs say about how many messages were
piped to the wrapper?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Jun 27 04:36:39 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 19:36:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to get mailman to ignore the reply-to
	address?
In-Reply-To: <42B92266.30303@sgul.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <PC17402005062619363901716d9bb372@msapiro>

Paul Key wrote:
>
>I have a one-way announcements list with subscribers having their 
>moderation bit set.
>
>The reply-to address of the sent email is changed to the email address 
>of the person who has asked for the email to be sent out.
>
>Now if this person who the reply-to address is changed to happens to be 
>a subscriber to the list then I, the sender (added to "List of 
>non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically accepted.") 
>get an email from mailman telling me that "Sorry - you are cannot post 
>to this list." Yet if the reply-to address is changed to be a 
>non-subscriber unconnected with the list my email gets posted without a 
>problem - why is the reply-to address behaving in this way and why can't 
>I change it to what I want? 

Do you have "USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = Yes" in mm_cfg.py?

Does your posting MUA (e-mail client) set the envelope sender of
outgoing messages to the Reply-To: address if any?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pokras at ntronline.org  Mon Jun 27 06:06:21 2005
From: pokras at ntronline.org (Stan Pokras)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 00:06:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] seeking automatic discard of non-member posts
Message-ID: <p05100303bee529343e98@[192.168.0.3]>

Hi,

My service provider offers Mailman version 2.0.11

I have our lists set for member only posts and all posts must be 
approved because some of our members have had virus or spam-base 
messages posted to the list without their knowledge.

I want all other posts to be discarded without my having to click on 
the discard choice. I don't even want to know about non-member posts 
since people finding out about our lists will be advised to email me. 
So, they won't be writing to the list to gain admission.

How can we set Mailman to automatically discard non-member posts?

And, how can we clear out the 300 or more postings which are waiting 
to be deleted in one of these lists. It's now totally useless until 
these messages are cleared out.

Thank you for your reply. My service provider doesn't know how to 
help me with this.

Stan


From mailman at epic.org  Mon Jun 27 06:40:50 2005
From: mailman at epic.org (Postal Worker)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 00:40:50 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] seeking automatic discard of non-member  posts
In-Reply-To: <p05100303bee529343e98@[192.168.0.3]>
References: <p05100303bee529343e98@[192.168.0.3]>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.0.2.20050627003343.02b71970@mail.epic.org>


>I want all other posts to be discarded without my having to click on
>the discard choice. I don't even want to know about non-member posts
>since people finding out about our lists will be advised to email me.
>So, they won't be writing to the list to gain admission.
>
>How can we set Mailman to automatically discard non-member posts?

See below


>And, how can we clear out the 300 or more postings which are waiting
>to be deleted in one of these lists. It's now totally useless until
>these messages are cleared out.


The held posts are in
         /var/lib/mailman/data/heldmsg*

I have a script I run:


         #!/bin/bash
         #
         # script to purge queue
         rm -v /var/lib/mailman/data/heldmsg*
         echo Done


that zaps all of them. You could run it from cron.

When you go to the pending admin actions, you'll get a bunch of 
"message lost" indications but other than that, no problems. Just hit 
go and the remains are flushed.





From bobo at meticulous.com  Mon Jun 27 08:09:29 2005
From: bobo at meticulous.com (John Athayde)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 02:09:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restoring lists?
Message-ID: <C478A573-75E1-4FE1-8BB5-8B99F2B698F8@meticulous.com>

I had to archive an old mailman install and reformat a box, and I'm  
now wondering how to restore the old lists. I've not been able to  
locate anything so far via google.

It's FreeBSD 5.4-Release with Mailman 2.15.

I had seen the "move_list" command in the documentation, but it isn't  
in the  bin folder (and did not show up with a system wide locate  
search)

Thanks in advance.
--

John Athayde
bobo at meticulous.com

Meticulous | www.meticulous.com (work)
Rotoscope | www.rotoscope.com (sound)
Boboroshi & Kynz | www.boboroshiandkynz.com (sound)
Personal Weblog | www.boboroshi.com (play)

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
          - Benjamin Franklin



From christophe at meessen.net  Mon Jun 27 09:10:14 2005
From: christophe at meessen.net (Christophe Meessen)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:10:14 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reject explanation send to owners ?
Message-ID: <42BFA656.9070800@meessen.net>

Hello,

we have a list currently managed by two moderators. We use moderation 
and some time we reject mails and provide a specific explanation.
The ennoying feature in our current configuration is that the other 
moderator does not know the explanation given unless the moderator send 
by hand an explicit message to the other moderator to explain what he did.

There is an option to send mail to owner, but this function won't send 
the explanation sent back to the original sender. Is it possible that 
the reject message is sent also to the owners so that they can see the 
explanation given ?


From humann at tcs.inf.tu-dresden.de  Mon Jun 27 10:06:01 2005
From: humann at tcs.inf.tu-dresden.de (Petra Humann)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:06:01 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Return Path
Message-ID: <42BFB369.3030105@tcs.inf.tu-dresden.de>

Hello,

I'm running mailman 2.1.5 with Sun Messaging Server.

I noticed, that every mail has two "Return-Path" headers:
> Return-path: <mylist-bounces at mylist.host.domain.de>
> Return-path: <original-sender at some.domain.com>

Running mailman version 2.1.1 with sendmail only one
Return-Path header exists.
> Return-path: <mylist-bounces at mylist.host.domain.de>

Are two Return-Path headers okay?

Some mails fail,the notifications to the postmaster include the
reason, e.g.:

> Sat, 25 Jun 2005 21:25:08 +0200 (MEST)
> Error reading SMTP packet; response to RCPT TO command expected

I assume, that the two Return-Path headers are the reason.
How do I correct this?

Thank you very much.
P.


From dennis.putnam at aimaudit.com  Mon Jun 27 14:24:55 2005
From: dennis.putnam at aimaudit.com (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 08:24:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message Unparsable
Message-ID: <64d073669b01e371d3f2f9b154ca0e41@aimaudit.com>

This problem seems to be a little more serious then I thought. It 
appears that no HTML attachments are getting through mailman. In 
addition to the unparsable error I am also getting a "non-text 
attachment was scrubbed" error and one message went into a black hole 
(no message distributed and nothing in any Mailman logs). There is only 
a message in the SMTP log showing the message was passed to the Mailman 
command string.

I desperately need some help resolving this problem. Is there some 
filtering going on here that hoses HTML attachments that needs to be 
turned off. How can I debug this when there is nothing in the logs? Is 
there a verbose mode switch I can turn on? TIA.

Dennis Putnam
Sr. IT Systems Administrator
AIM Systems, Inc.
11675 Rainwater Dr., Suite 200
Alpharetta, GA  30004
Phone: 678-240-4112
Main Phone: 678-297-0700
FAX: 678-297-2666 or 770-576-1000
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments is 
strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, 
dissemination, distribution, or duplication of any part of this e-mail 
or any attachment is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all copies, 
including the attachments.



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jun 27 14:42:51 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 07:42:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message Unparsable
In-Reply-To: <64d073669b01e371d3f2f9b154ca0e41@aimaudit.com>
References: <64d073669b01e371d3f2f9b154ca0e41@aimaudit.com>
Message-ID: <p06200726bee5a43a2a2a@[192.168.1.101]>

At 8:24 AM -0400 2005-06-27, Dennis Putnam wrote:

>               How can I debug this when there is nothing in the logs?

	Good question.

>                                                                       Is
>  there a verbose mode switch I can turn on? TIA.

	Nope, no verbose mode.  One of the problems I've had with Mailman 
for some time has been the sometimes limited amount of information 
that it puts into the logs, and the lack of any kind of ability to 
increase the logging level.

	You may be forced to use command-line tools to try to identify 
problematical messages that are sitting in the "shunt" queue (if 
any), or going into the Python source code and adding some more of 
your own logging.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From dennis.putnam at aimaudit.com  Mon Jun 27 15:01:29 2005
From: dennis.putnam at aimaudit.com (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:01:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message Unparsable
In-Reply-To: <p06200726bee5a43a2a2a@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <64d073669b01e371d3f2f9b154ca0e41@aimaudit.com>
	<p06200726bee5a43a2a2a@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <8efab2e61ecbb83d3bb16f1b198aa7c5@aimaudit.com>

Hm.. "Shunt" queue? Maybe that would at least let me know what Mailman 
is looking that it can't parse, just in case something unexpected is 
being inserted along the way. Where is that directory? I see nothing in 
the /var/mailman path that looks like a "shunt" queue.

I'm not a Python programmer so I am not about to touch that. Thanks for 
the reply.

On Jun 27, 2005, at 8:42 AM, Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 8:24 AM -0400 2005-06-27, Dennis Putnam wrote:
>
>>               How can I debug this when there is nothing in the logs?
>
> 	Good question.
>
>>                                                                       
>> Is
>>  there a verbose mode switch I can turn on? TIA.
>
> 	Nope, no verbose mode.  One of the problems I've had with Mailman for 
> some time has been the sometimes limited amount of information that it 
> puts into the logs, and the lack of any kind of ability to increase 
> the logging level.
>
> 	You may be forced to use command-line tools to try to identify 
> problematical messages that are sitting in the "shunt" queue (if any), 
> or going into the Python source code and adding some more of your own 
> logging.
>

Dennis Putnam
Sr. IT Systems Administrator
AIM Systems, Inc.
11675 Rainwater Dr., Suite 200
Alpharetta, GA  30004
Phone: 678-240-4112
Main Phone: 678-297-0700
FAX: 678-297-2666 or 770-576-1000
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments is 
strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, 
dissemination, distribution, or duplication of any part of this e-mail 
or any attachment is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all copies, 
including the attachments.



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Jun 27 15:07:19 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 08:07:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message Unparsable
In-Reply-To: <8efab2e61ecbb83d3bb16f1b198aa7c5@aimaudit.com>
References: <64d073669b01e371d3f2f9b154ca0e41@aimaudit.com>
	<p06200726bee5a43a2a2a@[192.168.1.101]>
	<8efab2e61ecbb83d3bb16f1b198aa7c5@aimaudit.com>
Message-ID: <p06200729bee5aa0685c2@[192.168.1.101]>

At 9:01 AM -0400 2005-06-27, Dennis Putnam wrote:

>  Hm.. "Shunt" queue? Maybe that would at least let me know what Mailman
>  is looking that it can't parse, just in case something unexpected is
>  being inserted along the way. Where is that directory? I see nothing in
>  the /var/mailman path that looks like a "shunt" queue.

	Normally, it would be located under 
/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/shunt, but it appears that the version of 
Mailman you're using on your platform has put that directory 
structure somewhere else.

>  I'm not a Python programmer so I am not about to touch that. Thanks for
>  the reply.

	I'm not a Python programmer, either.  However, it should be 
simple enough to find some of the existing examples of logging and to 
copy-n-paste those lines to other code elsewhere in the system, 
making appropriate changes for the message you want logged, and 
making sure to get the indentation correct for the new location of 
the code.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From dennis.putnam at aimaudit.com  Mon Jun 27 15:59:19 2005
From: dennis.putnam at aimaudit.com (Dennis Putnam)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:59:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message Unparsable
In-Reply-To: <p06200729bee5aa0685c2@[192.168.1.101]>
References: <64d073669b01e371d3f2f9b154ca0e41@aimaudit.com>
	<p06200726bee5a43a2a2a@[192.168.1.101]>
	<8efab2e61ecbb83d3bb16f1b198aa7c5@aimaudit.com>
	<p06200729bee5aa0685c2@[192.168.1.101]>
Message-ID: <6ecdff9986b2f36b3789118f84a4c183@aimaudit.com>

Thanks. It is in /var/mailman/qfiles but the shunt directory is empty. 
Rats!

On Jun 27, 2005, at 9:07 AM, Brad Knowles wrote:

>
> 	Normally, it would be located under /usr/local/mailman/qfiles/shunt, 
> but it appears that the version of Mailman you're using on your 
> platform has put that directory structure somewhere else.
>   SNIP

Dennis Putnam
Sr. IT Systems Administrator
AIM Systems, Inc.
11675 Rainwater Dr., Suite 200
Alpharetta, GA  30004
Phone: 678-240-4112
Main Phone: 678-297-0700
FAX: 678-297-2666 or 770-576-1000
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments is 
strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, 
dissemination, distribution, or duplication of any part of this e-mail 
or any attachment is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete all copies, 
including the attachments.


From waterstc+ at pitt.edu  Mon Jun 27 16:21:19 2005
From: waterstc+ at pitt.edu (Thomas Waters)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:21:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need more guidance in getting Mailman lists running
 on OS X Tiger Server
Message-ID: <A3C87AA9-C546-4FB8-BA93-9118E4936F2A@pitt.edu>

I tried to move our mailman lists from the older Panther Server to a  
new install of tiger server, and I'm still not there.

Postfix is working.  Mailman is working.  What isn't correct is the  
Web UI for Mailman.

The lists use the addresses somelist at pharmacy.pitt.edu, but the web  
site has a URL of www/pharmacy.pitt.edu/mailman/somelist

In the mm_cfg.py file, email host is set to pharmacy.pitt.edu and URL  
host set to www.pharmacy.pitt.edu.  Is this the correct settings?

If I go to the Maillist admin web page, and try to create a new list,  
I get error- unknown virtual host www.pharmacy.pitt.edu.

I can create a list in the OS X Server Admin however.   I believe the  
only pice that is "broken" is create a new list via the web UI.


NOTE: new email address
--
Thomas Waters
Director of Information and Communication Services
University of Pittsburgh School of Pharmacy
412-383-7471
waterstc at pitt.edu
http://www.pharmacy.pitt.edu



From regoli at gmail.com  Tue Jun 28 00:28:22 2005
From: regoli at gmail.com (Michael Regoli)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:28:22 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help getting SuSE 9.3+Mailman 2.1.5+Apache2 working
Message-ID: <3b876d0905062715284d57edbd@mail.gmail.com>

Hello! I'm trying to get mailman and Apache2 working nicely from the
stock SuSE distro. (YOU, Yast Online Update is current on the machine,
so if there's new stuff for either mailman or Apache2, I've got it.
mailman is version [2.1.5] and Apache2 is version [2.0.53].)

Has anyone got the two working together? If so, could you shed some
light on your Apache2 configuration? I've followed all of the
instructions at
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node10.html, but
cannot get Apache2 to "see" the mailman stuff in
/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin (I'm getting 403: "client denied by server
configuration: /var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin" when I visit
"http://servername/mailman/admin" for instance.)

Web server is running fine.  The machine has a few other virtual hosts
on it, so I've put the mailman configuration into the default virtual
hosts setup in /etc/apache2/default-server.conf:

<VirtualHost xxx.xx.xx.x>
 ServerName www.servername.here:80
 DocumentRoot "/srv/www/htdocs"
 ServerAdmin root at servername.org
 TransferLog /var/log/apache2/access_log
 ErrorLog /var/log/apache2/error_log
 ScriptAlias /mailman/ /var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
 <Directory "/usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/">
   AllowOverride None
   Options +ExecCGI +Includes
   Order allow,deny
   Allow from all
< /Directory>
</VirtualHost>     

I've even tried duplicating the <Directory ...> section above in the
main "default-server.conf" file to allow CGI from within the
mailman/cgi-bin directory.  No luck.

I think I'm putting the mailman configuration in the wrong place, as
apache is clearly not letting me run anything from the mailman/cgi-bin
directory.

Thanks for any advice!  --mike


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 28 01:35:42 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:35:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need more guidance in getting Mailman lists
	runningon OS X Tiger Server
In-Reply-To: <A3C87AA9-C546-4FB8-BA93-9118E4936F2A@pitt.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402005062716354208438d2079d5@msapiro>

Thomas Waters wrote:

>I tried to move our mailman lists from the older Panther Server to a  
>new install of tiger server, and I'm still not there.
>
>Postfix is working.  Mailman is working.  What isn't correct is the  
>Web UI for Mailman.
>
>The lists use the addresses somelist at pharmacy.pitt.edu, but the web  
>site has a URL of www/pharmacy.pitt.edu/mailman/somelist


I assume you mean www.pharmacy.pitt.edu/mailman/somelist


>In the mm_cfg.py file, email host is set to pharmacy.pitt.edu and URL  
>host set to www.pharmacy.pitt.edu.  Is this the correct settings?
>
>If I go to the Maillist admin web page, and try to create a new list,  
>I get error- unknown virtual host www.pharmacy.pitt.edu.
>
>I can create a list in the OS X Server Admin however.   I believe the  
>only pice that is "broken" is create a new list via the web UI.

It seems you haven't put

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

in mm_cfg.py following the definitions of DEFAULT_URL_HOST and
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST.

in mm_cfg.py you should have:

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'pharmacy.pitt.edu'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.pharmacy.pitt.edu'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

The VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear() isn't absolutely necessary, but it removes
the presumably erroneous entry added in Defaults.py.

See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp

You should not have any entries in mm_cfg.py for
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN
DEFAULT_HOST_NAME
DEFAULT_URL

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 28 01:51:43 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:51:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restoring lists?
In-Reply-To: <C478A573-75E1-4FE1-8BB5-8B99F2B698F8@meticulous.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020050627165143070342ec27aa@msapiro>

John Athayde wrote:

>I had to archive an old mailman install and reformat a box, and I'm  
>now wondering how to restore the old lists. I've not been able to  
>locate anything so far via google.

See http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-June/045255.html

The context is different, but it should help.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From phildurning at yahoo.com  Tue Jun 28 01:54:45 2005
From: phildurning at yahoo.com (phil durning)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:54:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] plugins
Message-ID: <20050627235445.42991.qmail@web60511.mail.yahoo.com>

Are there any mailman ?plug-ins? for:

To allow the mailman database to hold other information (like the addresses, phone numbers,
billing codes, etc.) 

To send faxes via Mailman
?
?


		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail 
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: 
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html 



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 28 02:56:59 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:56:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domain lists
In-Reply-To: <200506221246.58546.mail@christiananton.de>
Message-ID: <PC174020050627175659076542ec27f8@msapiro>

Christian Anton wrote:
>
>i am running mailman 2.1.5 with the mailman-virtual patch for some virtual 
>domains.
>Because of the usage of suexec on my Webserver i have every vhost running its 
>CGI's with another UID on the system. For being able to access the 
>mailman-binaries i have to create a new vhost that ist only for this, for 
>example "lists.domain.tld", configuring in this vhost that cgi's are executed 
>with the UID 'mailman'.
>
>Now i want to create a mailinglist list at mglug.de, but the URL host for seeing 
>the webpages of the list must be lists at mglug.de.


Do you mean lists.mglug.de?


>I have read the documentation and i think that add_virtualhost(<URL_HOST>, 
><MAIL_HOST>) has to be what i want, so that when i create a list with the 
>command:
>
>bin/newlist list at mglug.de


If you carefully read 'bin/newlist --help' you will see the command you
want is

bin/newlist list at lists.mglug.de

i.e., listname at url_host, not listname at email_host

I know this is confusing and it has been addressed in 2.1.6 by adding
new options so you could do

bin/newlist list --urlhost=lists.mglug.de

but this won't work in 2.1.5.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 28 03:15:52 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:15:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Welcome to the "Mailman-Users" mailing list
In-Reply-To: <200506230325.j5N3PBa4004921@guild.plethora.net>
Message-ID: <PC174020050627181552073442ec27d2@msapiro>

Peter Seebach wrote:

>In message <mailman.1896.1119496649.10510.mailman-users at python.org>, mailman-us
>ers-request at python.org writes:
>>Welcome to the Mailman-Users at python.org mailing list! Don't forget to
>>check out the Mailman FAQ at:


And if you had, you might have come across
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp
which would have helped with your problem.

You need to run fix_url against your old lists as explained in the
'Existing versus new lists' section of the above FAQ article.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Jun 28 03:19:32 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 20:19:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] plugins
In-Reply-To: <20050627235445.42991.qmail@web60511.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20050627235445.42991.qmail@web60511.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06200735bee653eb57e6@[192.168.1.101]>

At 4:54 PM -0700 2005-06-27, phil durning wrote:

>  Are there any mailman ?plug-ins? for:

	Mailman does not have any "plug-ins".

>  To allow the mailman database to hold other information (like the
>  addresses, phone numbers, billing codes, etc.)
>
>  To send faxes via Mailman

	No.  Among others, see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.026.htp>, 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.030.htp>, 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.018.htp>, 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.037.htp>, 
and 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.040.htp>.

	In the future, I would encourage you to follow the instructions 
at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.022.htp> 
before posting questions to this list.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 28 03:29:29 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:29:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A question about moving to a new server...
In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.0.2.20050622231605.0249d7c0@defiant.uss-starlord.org>
Message-ID: <PC174020050627182929043700261052@msapiro>

Michael D. Smith wrote:

>I currently run Mailman 2.1.6 on a RH 8.0 server.
>
>I've recently set up a new RHEL 4.0 server and wish to migrate my 
>lists from the old server to the new one.

See http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-June/045255.html

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 28 03:36:42 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:36:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER
In-Reply-To: <42BA71D3.8020807@st.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020050627183642051528f7572d@msapiro>

Jean-Philippe GIOLA wrote:
>
>I try to use the option PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER but it doesn't work.
>
>I have add this line in mm_cfg.py : PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = 'cat > 
>/home/users/jean-philippe_giola/mailman-archive'
>so I want to store a mail that is sent in a the 
>"/home/users/jean-philippe_giola/mailman-archive" temporary file.
>But when I send a mail to a list, it is not written in thi temporary file.

Does the list have public archives? If not, use
PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER.

>Does someone has an idea of the problem ?
>May I have some other option to change ?
>is it useful to recompile the mm_cfg.py file or it is done alone ?

You need to do

bin/mailmanctl restart

after making mm_cfg.py changes. Recompilation will occur automatically.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 28 03:51:42 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:51:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] no mail
In-Reply-To: <003d01c577fc$cc1a8080$98c60944@Dina>
Message-ID: <PC174020050627185142070351c89e69@msapiro>

Dina Hornreich wrote:
>
>I manage a list called typical girls at http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/typicalgirls .
>
>It seems that after I update my e-mail address, i haven't been receiving posts despite NOT having selected "no mail."

Did you receive and respond to an e-mail address change confirmation
mail at the new address?

>Also, the info page has half an e-mail address where it says to post to.

The domain of the posting address comes from host_name near the bottom
of the General Options section of the admin interface.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 28 04:14:57 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:14:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems with permissions?
In-Reply-To: <200506232007.57056.dojai@ufv.br>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506271914570546f50db7db@msapiro>

Eduardo Jaime Quiros Batres wrote:

>I have mailman 2.1.4 on a mandrake 10.0 and have upgraded msec to version =
>
>msec-0.44.2-1mdk but I still get a bug error when I try to confirm a =
>
>subscription to a list.
>
>I runned check_permissions -f and it didn't work, I gave a chwon apache.mai=
>l =
>
>on all the /var/log/mailman subdirectory and it still didn't work and I als=
>o =
>
>gave a chown 664 on /var/mailman/log and the error is:
>
>
>Jun 23 19:57:00 2005 admin(3952): @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@=
>@@@
>admin(3952): [----- Mailman Version: 2.1.4 -----]
>admin(3952): [----- Traceback ------]
>admin(3952): Traceback (most recent call last):
>admin(3952):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 101, in run_main
>admin(3952):     main()
>admin(3952):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/confirm.py", line 110, in =
>
>main
>admin(3952):     subscription_confirm(mlist, doc, cookie, cgidata)
>admin(3952):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/confirm.py", line 333, in =
>
>subscription_confirm
>admin(3952):     op, addr, pw, digest, lang =3D mlist.ProcessConfirmation(
>admin(3952):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 1120, in =
>
>ProcessConfirmation
>admin(3952):     self.HoldSubscription(addr, fullname, password, digest, la=
>ng)
>admin(3952):   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 391, in =
>
>HoldSubscription
>admin(3952):     assert not self.__db.has_key(id)
>admin(3952): AssertionError

This is not a permissions problem. It is a bug in Mailman 2.1.4 which
was fixed in 2.1.5.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 28 04:29:08 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:29:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message Unparsable
In-Reply-To: <6ecdff9986b2f36b3789118f84a4c183@aimaudit.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005062719290807811ddeff15@msapiro>

Dennis Putnam wrote:

>Thanks. It is in /var/mailman/qfiles but the shunt directory is empty. 
>Rats!

Not surprising since normally there is a message in the 'error' log
when a message is shunted.

On the original question, have you looked at your list's Content
filtering Section? I suggest that initially, filter_content should be
'No', and if 'Yes', filter action should be 'Reject' or 'Forward', not
'Discard' or 'Preserve'.

Also regarding scrubbed attachments, normally attachments are only
scrubbed from archives and digests, and when scrubbed, they are stored
and replaced by a web link to the stored attachment. Is this what
happened in your case?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 28 04:47:56 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:47:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe not functioning
In-Reply-To: <20050624051402.50371.qmail@web80107.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506271947560187ef466f13@msapiro>

rdembski at sbcglobal.net wrote:

>External subscribing is not working thru either the
>web interface or the list-subscribe at hostname.org
>method.  There is no confirmation message being
>sent...  I can subscribe locally thru email, can
>manually add addresses thru the admin interface, and
>can even send/receive list mail from any
>already-subscribed address with no problem.


Can an external user post successfully?

If an internal user can successfully subscribe by e-mail, but an
external user can't, I think it must be an Exim configuration issue.

Can internal users subscribe via the web and external users not? I
can't offhand understand what might cause this.


>I've looked thru the FAQ, the FAQ wizard, searched
>this lists' archives the best I can, and still cannot
>find anything similar enough to suggest a problem/fix.
>
>I'm using Mailman 2.1.6rc4, Exim 3 on Debian GNU/Linux
>3.

Have you looked at
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.019.htp

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 28 05:03:54 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 20:03:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reject explanation send to owners ?
In-Reply-To: <42BFA656.9070800@meessen.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506272003540296ef466f7e@msapiro>

Christophe Meessen wrote:
>
>we have a list currently managed by two moderators. We use moderation 
>and some time we reject mails and provide a specific explanation.
>The ennoying feature in our current configuration is that the other 
>moderator does not know the explanation given unless the moderator send 
>by hand an explicit message to the other moderator to explain what he did.
>
>There is an option to send mail to owner, but this function won't send 
>the explanation sent back to the original sender. Is it possible that 
>the reject message is sent also to the owners so that they can see the 
>explanation given ?

There is currently no option to copy the reject notice to the (other)
owners/moderators, but it would be useful in cases such as yours. This
is already an RFE, see
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1012925&group_id=103&atid=350103

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 28 05:54:45 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 20:54:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Return Path
In-Reply-To: <42BFB369.3030105@tcs.inf.tu-dresden.de>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506272054450062ef466e8b@msapiro>

Petra Humann wrote:
>
>I'm running mailman 2.1.5 with Sun Messaging Server.
>
>I noticed, that every mail has two "Return-Path" headers:
>> Return-path: <mylist-bounces at mylist.host.domain.de>
>> Return-path: <original-sender at some.domain.com>
>
>Running mailman version 2.1.1 with sendmail only one
>Return-Path header exists.
>> Return-path: <mylist-bounces at mylist.host.domain.de>
>
>Are two Return-Path headers okay?


Not really, but they shouldn't cause the following problem.

Section 4.4 of RFC 2821 - SMTP which can be found at
http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2821.html is the standard which covers the
use of Return-Path: headers.

When mail is delivered from the SMTP environment to an 'outside'
destination, the delivering server MUST add a Return-Path: header
containing the envelope sender information. The MTA that finally
delivers to Mailman inserts the

Return-path: <original-sender at some.domain.com>

header, and the MTA that finally delivers the post from Mailman to the
recipient inserts the

Return-path: <mylist-bounces at mylist.host.domain.de>

header.

The issue is the removal of the first Return-Path: header in the
process of delivery from Mailman to recipient. The standard says that
the MTA making final delivery MAY (not MUST) remove Return-Path:
headers before adding its own. It also says that gateways from
elsewhere to SMTP SHOULD delete any Return-Path: header from the
message which seems to say that Mailman should do this before sending
the message, but it doesn't. It could easily be done in the
bulkdeliver() method in Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py, but comments
there seem to indicate that Mailman relies the outgoing and/or final
delivery MTA to do it.

Thus we have the situation where your messages wind up with two
Return-Path headers in your particular configuration although some
recipients may see only one if the MTA doing final delivery to them
removes the first.


>Some mails fail,the notifications to the postmaster include the
>reason, e.g.:
>
>> Sat, 25 Jun 2005 21:25:08 +0200 (MEST)
>> Error reading SMTP packet; response to RCPT TO command expected
>
>I assume, that the two Return-Path headers are the reason.
>How do I correct this?

I don't think this is the reason, but I may be wrong. Do the failures
occur consistently for the same subset of recipients? If so, it might
be the extra Return-Path, but it doesn't seem to me that this would
result in the specific reported error.

If you want to delete the first Return-Path in Mailman to test this,
you could edit the Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py module. In this
module you will see

def bulkdeliver(mlist, msg, msgdata, envsender, failures, conn):

followed by several lines of comments followed by

    del msg['sender']
    del msg['errors-to']
    msg['Sender'] = envsender
    msg['Errors-To'] = envsender

Change these by adding one line as follows:

    del msg['sender']
    del msg['errors-to']
    del msg['return-path']
    msg['Sender'] = envsender
    msg['Errors-To'] = envsender

Be sure the added line is indented exactly the same as the others and
with spaces, not tab.

After editing, restart mailman to pick up the change.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 28 06:00:54 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 21:00:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] privacy alert
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0506210804460.18053@seyyav.pair.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506272100540343ef466fad@msapiro>

Sean wrote:
>
>In general, I think this would be useful information to include in the
>source to help system administrators block offending IP addresses from the
>servers.  Any thoughts about this, pro or con, before I file an RFE?

I agree it would be useful.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 28 06:11:44 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 21:11:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't Send mail to the list
In-Reply-To: <9EBB36E0C1B50D41A922B6280D2AEF029279A6@smtp-syd.sharmannetworks.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506272111440843ef467197@msapiro>

Benjamin Wise wrote:
>
>The problem is every time I send an email to the list.
>list at testjail.[domainname].com <mailto:list at testjail.%5bdomainname%5d.com> 
>
> 
>
>I receive the following error message
>
>
>
>
><list at testjail.[domainname].com>:
>
>[IP address] does not like recipient.
>
>Remote host said: 550 5.1.1 <list at testjail.[domainname].com>... User unknown
>Giving up on [IP Adress].


Have you configured sendmail aliases to pipe list mail to the mailman
wrapper?

See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 28 06:19:44 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 21:19:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SuSe 9.3 / Mailman / Python 2.4-14: cannot
	readwrapper configuration file
In-Reply-To: <MTExOTc2NjI1OS5hdXJvcmE.1119766259@dissimulo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506272119440656ef4670dc@msapiro>

Poster wrote:
>
>Greetings everyone. I'm using SuSe 9.3 with the suppled Mailman and
>Python and I'm running smack dab into the dreaded "Cannot read wrapper
>configuration file" error. This is obtained when I try to send mail to
>aliases for a list, or when I try to execute any of Mailman's CGI
>programs through the web interface.

This appears to be a SuSe specific way of configuring group
authorization for the wrappers. I suggest you explore this on a SuSe
list/forum/etc. where you are likely to encounter people who know more
about this.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From rdembski at sbcglobal.net  Tue Jun 28 07:59:24 2005
From: rdembski at sbcglobal.net (rdembski at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 22:59:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe not functioning
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200506271947560187ef466f13@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20050628055924.13568.qmail@web80101.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> rdembski at sbcglobal.net wrote:
> 
> >External subscribing is not working thru either the
> >web interface or the list-subscribe at hostname.org
> >method.  There is no confirmation message being
> >sent...  I can subscribe locally thru email, can
> >manually add addresses thru the admin interface,
> and
> >can even send/receive list mail from any
> >already-subscribed address with no problem.
> 
> 
> Can an external user post successfully?

-- Yes, anyone already subscribed to the list can
post.  I've had to add all outside addresses manually
through the administration pages.
 
> If an internal user can successfully subscribe by
> e-mail, but an
> external user can't, I think it must be an Exim
> configuration issue.

-- When testing it out, I don't receive an
"undeliverable"-type reply, so the message is being
delivered.  There's just no confirmation response at
all...  I'm looking into upgrading Exim to 4 with SSL.
 Perhaps that may make a difference, as it appears 3.x
is not very well supported...?
 
> Can internal users subscribe via the web and
> external users not? I
> can't offhand understand what might cause this.

-- Web subscribing does not work at all.  No
confirmation email is delivered, nor is an
administrative accept request issued when I tried that
route.

> >I've looked thru the FAQ, the FAQ wizard, searched
> >this lists' archives the best I can, and still
> cannot
> >find anything similar enough to suggest a
> problem/fix.
> >
> >I'm using Mailman 2.1.6rc4, Exim 3 on Debian
> GNU/Linux
> >3.
> 
> Have you looked at
>
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.019.htp
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is
> for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use
> your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 



From Poster at aurora.cotse.net  Tue Jun 28 10:53:57 2005
From: Poster at aurora.cotse.net (Poster)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 04:53:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help getting SuSE 9.3+Mailman 2.1.5+Apache2
 working
In-Reply-To: <3b876d0905062715284d57edbd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <3b876d0905062715284d57edbd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MTExOTk0ODgzNy5hdXJvcmE.1119948837@dissimulo.com>


Michael Regoli said:
> Hello! I'm trying to get mailman and Apache2 working nicely from the
> stock SuSE distro. (YOU, Yast Online Update is current on the machine,
> so if there's new stuff for either mailman or Apache2, I've got it.
> mailman is version [2.1.5] and Apache2 is version [2.0.53].)

I had a similar problem -- I think. I have Suse 9.3, stock Mailman and
stock Apache2, all updated with YOU. In my case, it was first the
inability for Mailman to run as the right GID, then it was the
inability to read the wrapper config files (which incidentally, don't
exist). Scouring the internet led me to clues that the error really
meant that the GID was still wrong. Nothing I did worked. I changed
the UID GID files that Mailman uses. I tweaked the mailman.conf files
in /etc/apache2. I inspected mail.err logs in /var/log. I changed
perms, owner, group, and access bits on everything that seemed
related. Still nothing.

Finally, out of sheer desperation, I reinstalled the stock Suse
Mailman RPM running as the mailman user. Then I checked (and fixed)
permissions issues using the scripts in /usr/lib/mailman/bin. With the
mailman cgi files moved to /cgi-bin/mailman and aliased in apache's
default-server.conf file (and given their own separate <Directory>
section with CGI script running turned on), everything worked!

I'm convinced that a reinstall is necessary to fix some permissions
SOMEWHERE. I spent way too much time trying to debug it, but with
mailman's lame, unhelpful error messages, there's just not much I
could do.

I don't use virtual servers yet, but I expect I will soon. And BTW,
the error message you're currently seeing is an Apache error message.

HTH,
Poster

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+        www.intaligo.com/mt         +
+  Professional Editing/Web Design   +
+        www.intaligo.com/mt         +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


From pkey at sgul.ac.uk  Tue Jun 28 14:48:47 2005
From: pkey at sgul.ac.uk (Paul Key)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:48:47 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Improving SMTP performance?
Message-ID: <42C1472F.605@sgul.ac.uk>

Mailman 2.1.3
Solaris 9
Exim 4.43

I have a list with 2300 subscribers and have set SMTP_MAX_RECEIPTS = 0 
to submit all the entire recipient list in one transaction to Exim.

Looking in the Mailman SMTP log file I see the following line:

smtp for 2300 recips, completed in 1921.891 seconds.

This seems a long time to me ?  Is it?  Does anyone know how I can speed 
this up?

Thanks

Paul



-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Jun 28 15:39:19 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 08:39:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Improving SMTP performance?
In-Reply-To: <42C1472F.605@sgul.ac.uk>
References: <42C1472F.605@sgul.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <p0620073bbee7036d7a60@[192.168.1.101]>

At 1:48 PM +0100 2005-06-28, Paul Key wrote:

>  smtp for 2300 recips, completed in 1921.891 seconds.
>
>  This seems a long time to me ?  Is it?  Does anyone know how I can speed
>  this up?

	Did you search the Mailman FAQ Wizard for "performance"?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From dpifer at odu.edu  Tue Jun 28 17:24:53 2005
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:24:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.6b4 issues
Message-ID: <1119972293.2589.146.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

Hello,

      I am new to the list so if I miss something or is improper
protocol, please let me know.

      Recently, we upgraded our mailman software from 2.0.13 to 2.1.6b4
and moved from a Solaris to Linux platform (RedHat AS 3 Update) on a
different machine. The Apache Web server we are running is 2.0.52. We
are successfully sending mail through the list server and the web server
is generally working, except for a couple of issues. The first issue is
that the software is sending unsubscription notices to user's e-mail
addresses, even though the "Send unsubscription acknowledgement to the
user" is set to No, under "Membership Management", "Mass Removal".
Secondly, when I try to change one of the configuration settings on a
list as the mailman administrator for any of the radio buttons under
"Mass Subscription" or "Mass Removal" and click on submit, the settings
revert back to the default setting.

     We were planning on installing the stable release of 2.1.6 but it
did not appear that this version addressed any of the problems that we
are having.

     Has anybody seen these problems? What can I check for? Is there any
other information you need from me to get an answer for these issues?

     Regards,

Darren Pifer
Old Dominion University
UNIX systems admin



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Jun 28 18:05:49 2005
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:05:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.6b4 issues
In-Reply-To: <1119972293.2589.146.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
References: <1119972293.2589.146.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <p0620073dbee725867867@[192.168.1.101]>

At 11:24 AM -0400 2005-06-28, Darren G Pifer wrote:

>  Secondly, when I try to change one of the configuration settings on a
>  list as the mailman administrator for any of the radio buttons under
>  "Mass Subscription" or "Mass Removal" and click on submit, the settings
>  revert back to the default setting.

	Hmm.  Did you look in the Mailman FAQ Wizard?  In particular, the 
entry at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp> 
sounds like it might be useful.

>       We were planning on installing the stable release of 2.1.6 but it
>  did not appear that this version addressed any of the problems that we
>  are having.

	There were other important fixes in the 2.1.6-release version. 
You should install it to get those, if nothing else.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 28 18:49:12 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 09:49:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.6b4 issues
In-Reply-To: <1119972293.2589.146.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506280949120406d929b1e2@msapiro>

Darren G Pifer wrote:
>
>The first issue is
>that the software is sending unsubscription notices to user's e-mail
>addresses, even though the "Send unsubscription acknowledgement to the
>user" is set to No, under "Membership Management", "Mass Removal".


This setting only affects that particular mass removal. In general,
this is controlled by 'send_goodbye_msg' on the general options page.

If the issue is that notices are sent for a particular mass removal
even though send acknowledgement is set to No for that removal, this
may be a case of 'post' data being lost as Brad suggested in another
reply, but that usually results in nothing working at all.


>Secondly, when I try to change one of the configuration settings on a
>list as the mailman administrator for any of the radio buttons under
>"Mass Subscription" or "Mass Removal" and click on submit, the settings
>revert back to the default setting.

Any settings you make to the radio buttons on the mass subscribe/remove
pages affect that particular action only. Defaults for these buttons
are as follows:

Mass Subscribe
   Subscribe/Invite = Subscribe (can't change default w/o hacking code)
   Send Welcome = send_welcome_msg setting from general options
   Notify list owner = admin_notify_mchanges from general options

Mass Remove
   Send Ack to user = No (can't change default w/o hacking code)
   Notify list owner = admin_notify_mchanges from general options

Arguably, the default for

Mass Remove
   Send Ack to user

should be send_goodbye_msg from general options, but it has been 'No'
at least since 2.1.4.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From morphine at digitalmente.net  Tue Jun 28 19:25:22 2005
From: morphine at digitalmente.net (Bruno Ferreira)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 18:25:22 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple subscription requests and reminders
In-Reply-To: <PC17402005062619013207656d9bb5bd@msapiro>
References: <PC17402005062619013207656d9bb5bd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <42C18802.70000@digitalmente.net>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>The question is why is Mailman processing the request 4 times. Is it a
>bug in mailman or does mailman actually receive 4 requests?
>
>Does the request arrive via the web interface (subscribe form on the
>listinfo page) or via e-mail. If from the web, what do the web servers
>logs say about how many 'post' transactions were processed? If via
>mail, what do the incoming MTA logs say about how many messages were
>piped to the wrapper?
>  
>

    After a bit more investigation at the MTA side, I managed to find 
out that Mailman processes the subscribe requests alone twice. 
Subscribing through the web interface makes Mailman process the request 
once.  However, sending a mail without proper commands to 
mailinglist-request at domain throws ONE error e-mail back, as it should 
be. So there's this situation:

    - Subscription through web interface: OK
    - Subscription through e-mail: 2 subscriptions processed
    - Other mail to mailinglist-request at domain: OK

    Where do you suggest I start looking now?

    -- Bruno Ferreira
---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]



From dpifer at odu.edu  Tue Jun 28 19:25:00 2005
From: dpifer at odu.edu (Darren G Pifer)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:25:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.6b4 issues
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200506280949120406d929b1e2@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200506280949120406d929b1e2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1119979500.2589.157.camel@becks.occs.odu.edu>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20050628/3937385c/attachment.pot 

From ronny at seffner.de  Tue Jun 28 20:00:20 2005
From: ronny at seffner.de (ronny at seffner.de)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 20:00:20 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] wrong server at all the links
Message-ID: <20050628180039.76FFD66441@pyma.its-seffner.de>

Hi,

A customer upgraded from debian WOODY to SARGE and finishes in mailman
problems. There is a list "mitarbeiter". We can connect the options by using
"http://local_server_one/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/mitarbeiter" but every link
we see shows to "http://local_server_two/...", we dont want to know why this
change happens, we only want to solve the problem.

I can't find "local_server_two" at mailman directories in /etc, /usr and
/var please help.




Mit freundlichen Gr??en / With kind regards

      Ronny Seffner



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 28 20:33:32 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:33:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe not functioning
In-Reply-To: <20050628055924.13568.qmail@web80101.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402005062811333207037f8b6dbf@msapiro>

rdembski at sbcglobal.net wrote:

>--- Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
>> Can an external user post successfully?
>
>-- Yes, anyone already subscribed to the list can
>post.  I've had to add all outside addresses manually
>through the administration pages.
> 
>> If an internal user can successfully subscribe by
>> e-mail, but an
>> external user can't, I think it must be an Exim
>> configuration issue.
>
>-- When testing it out, I don't receive an
>"undeliverable"-type reply, so the message is being
>delivered.  There's just no confirmation response at
>all...  I'm looking into upgrading Exim to 4 with SSL.
> Perhaps that may make a difference, as it appears 3.x
>is not very well supported...?


So posting works which indicates Exim properly delivers posts to the
wrapper. I don't know Exim, but it seems this should mean Exim will
also handle '-subscribe', etc. e-mail at least if configured in accord
with http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman.html, but note that the two
documents there cover Mailman 2.0/Exim 3 and Mailman 2.1/Exim 4. For
Mailman 2.1/Exim 3, you may need to interpolate between the two.

Upgrading to Exim 4 is probably a good idea.

In any case, check Exim logs to see that the request is properly piped
to the Mailman wrapper.

 
>> Can internal users subscribe via the web and
>> external users not? I
>> can't offhand understand what might cause this.
>
>-- Web subscribing does not work at all.  No
>confirmation email is delivered, nor is an
>administrative accept request issued when I tried that
>route.

Does the rest of the web interface work? Did you edit the listinfo.html
template? If so, you should be aware that the <MM-Subscribe-Form-Start>
tag in the template comes 'too early' making it really easy to break
the subscribe form when editing.

Also, look at the source html of the actual listinfo page to make sure
the ACTION= URL in the FORM tag looks correct. If not, there may be
issues with Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py things such as DEFAULT_URL_HOST,
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST and add_virtualhost() and/or the list attributes
host_name and web_page_url. See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp
for more info.

You might also look at
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.033.htp
and try this minimal subscribe form to see if it works.


For both issues, check Mailman's logs for anything relevant.
Particularly the 'subscribe', 'error', 'smtp' and if any the
'smtp-failure' logs.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 28 20:36:45 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:36:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] wrong server at all the links
In-Reply-To: <20050628180039.76FFD66441@pyma.its-seffner.de>
Message-ID: <PC17402005062811364506257f8b6d7e@msapiro>

ronny at seffner.de wrote:
>
>A customer upgraded from debian WOODY to SARGE and finishes in mailman
>problems. There is a list "mitarbeiter". We can connect the options by using
>"http://local_server_one/cgi-bin/mailman/admin/mitarbeiter" but every link
>we see shows to "http://local_server_two/...", we dont want to know why this
>change happens, we only want to solve the problem.

You need to run bin/fix_url.py - run it directly for instructions.

Also see
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 28 20:46:20 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:46:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple subscription requests and reminders
In-Reply-To: <42C18802.70000@digitalmente.net>
Message-ID: <PC17402005062811462009687f8b6ebc@msapiro>

Bruno Ferreira wrote:
>
>    After a bit more investigation at the MTA side, I managed to find 
>out that Mailman processes the subscribe requests alone twice. 
>Subscribing through the web interface makes Mailman process the request 
>once.  However, sending a mail without proper commands to 
>mailinglist-request at domain throws ONE error e-mail back, as it should 
>be. So there's this situation:
>
>    - Subscription through web interface: OK
>    - Subscription through e-mail: 2 subscriptions processed
>    - Other mail to mailinglist-request at domain: OK
>
>    Where do you suggest I start looking now?

Look at the actual subscription request e-mail (Bcc: yourself to get a
copy). Look for anything strange like two From: headers or e-mail
address appearing twice in From: header.

Check MTA log to make sure request is only piped once to the wrapper,
although it seems that you've probably already done this or at least
empirically verified it (- Other mail to mailinglist-request at domain:
OK)

Are you mailing mailinglist-request at domain with 'subscribe' both in the
subject and in the body of the e-mail?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From seebs at plethora.net  Tue Jun 28 20:51:04 2005
From: seebs at plethora.net (Peter Seebach)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:51:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Welcome to the "Mailman-Users" mailing list
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:15:52 PDT."
	<PC174020050627181552073442ec27d2@msapiro> 
Message-ID: <200506281851.j5SIp45W027745@guild.plethora.net>

In message <PC174020050627181552073442ec27d2 at msapiro>, Mark Sapiro writes:
>Peter Seebach wrote:
>
>>In message <mailman.1896.1119496649.10510.mailman-users at python.org>, mailman-us
>>ers-request at python.org writes:
>>>Welcome to the Mailman-Users at python.org mailing list! Don't forget to
>>>check out the Mailman FAQ at:
>
>
>And if you had, you might have come across
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp
>which would have helped with your problem.
>
>You need to run fix_url against your old lists as explained in the
>'Existing versus new lists' section of the above FAQ article.

Thanks!  I actually did search the FAQ, but I apparently used the wrong search
keywords.  That looks helpful.  I was looking for explanations of the behavior; I
had no idea that the URLs were encoded in the list, or mattered, so I had no
idea I needed to read the stuff about changing the URL.  I assumed that since the
Mailman list was showing up, the URL was set correctly...

-s


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 28 20:58:13 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:58:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Welcome to the "Mailman-Users" mailing list
In-Reply-To: <200506281851.j5SIp45W027745@guild.plethora.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506281158130765eaa63bca@msapiro>

Peter Seebach wrote:
>
>Thanks!  I actually did search the FAQ, but I apparently used the wrong search
>keywords.  That looks helpful.  I was looking for explanations of the behavior; I
>had no idea that the URLs were encoded in the list, or mattered, so I had no
>idea I needed to read the stuff about changing the URL.  I assumed that since the
>Mailman list was showing up, the URL was set correctly...

If you could let us know what searches you tried that didn't return the
article or how we could better describe what the article addresses, we
can try to update the FAQ to do better next time.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From seebs at plethora.net  Tue Jun 28 21:07:13 2005
From: seebs at plethora.net (Peter Seebach)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:07:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Welcome to the "Mailman-Users" mailing list
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:58:13 PDT."
	<PC1740200506281158130765eaa63bca@msapiro> 
Message-ID: <200506281907.j5SJ7Dn1001586@guild.plethora.net>

In message <PC1740200506281158130765eaa63bca at msapiro>, Mark Sapiro writes:
>If you could let us know what searches you tried that didn't return the
>article or how we could better describe what the article addresses, we
>can try to update the FAQ to do better next time.

Good point!

The issue here is that the FAQ describes what to do, and even mentions "old
lists", but doesn't mention the symptoms.  As a person whose mailman
installation is failing, the only thing I have access to is symptoms.  It
would be good to have cross-references to this in the troubleshooting stuff;
for instance, in the same place where you talk about database conversion
(which I found) or the importance of creating an umbrella list (which I
found).

I had no information that would have led me to suspect that "URLs" were part
of my problem.  I didn't know that a list had a URL encoded in it or anything
like that.  What I knew was that I had lists which looked correct, but which
didn't show up on the admin.cgi page.  And, also, where test messages to those
lists produced no response at all, not even a mention in the log file.

Those are the kinds of symptoms I was looking at, and I knew enough to look
around at the symptoms, but that FAQ entry, while describing what one needs
to do, doesn't mention any symptoms... So there's no likelihood of a match.

I would think the right sort of thing would be a checklist of "things that
can make a list not work", and have "wrong URL encoded in list (common when
migrating lists)" on it.  :)

-s


From mail at christiananton.de  Tue Jun 28 19:30:50 2005
From: mail at christiananton.de (Christian Anton)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:30:50 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domain lists
In-Reply-To: <PC174020050627175659076542ec27f8@msapiro>
References: <PC174020050627175659076542ec27f8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200506281930.50727.mail@christiananton.de>

Am Dienstag 28 Juni 2005 02:56 schrieb Mark Sapiro:
> Christian Anton wrote:
> >i am running mailman 2.1.5 with the mailman-virtual patch for some virtual
> >domains.
> >Because of the usage of suexec on my Webserver i have every vhost running
> > its CGI's with another UID on the system. For being able to access the
> > mailman-binaries i have to create a new vhost that ist only for this, for
> > example "lists.domain.tld", configuring in this vhost that cgi's are
> > executed with the UID 'mailman'.
> >
> >Now i want to create a mailinglist list at mglug.de, but the URL host for
> > seeing the webpages of the list must be lists at mglug.de.
>
> Do you mean lists.mglug.de?
yes, i meant!
>
> >I have read the documentation and i think that add_virtualhost(<URL_HOST>,
> ><MAIL_HOST>) has to be what i want, so that when i create a list with the
> >command:
> >
> >bin/newlist list at mglug.de
>
> If you carefully read 'bin/newlist --help' you will see the command you
> want is
>
> bin/newlist list at lists.mglug.de
>
> i.e., listname at url_host, not listname at email_host
>
> I know this is confusing and it has been addressed in 2.1.6 by adding
> new options so you could do
>
> bin/newlist list --urlhost=lists.mglug.de
>
> but this won't work in 2.1.5.
>
Reading manuals is a fine thing... 

It runs, thank you very much!



Christian


From forrie at forrie.com  Tue Jun 28 23:19:04 2005
From: forrie at forrie.com (Forrest Aldrich)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:19:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to specify alternate port in ./configure
	--mailhost= ?
Message-ID: <42C1BEC8.3080409@forrie.com>

We're running a special MTA on a different port, and I would like to
point the mailman instance to that.   Is it possible to specify this in
the ./configure options or does it need to be input into mm_cfg.py
somewhere?


Thanks.



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Jun 28 23:37:28 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:37:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to specify alternate port in
	./configure--mailhost= ?
In-Reply-To: <42C1BEC8.3080409@forrie.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506281437280171873a0c67@msapiro>

Forrest Aldrich wrote:

>We're running a special MTA on a different port, and I would like to
>point the mailman instance to that.   Is it possible to specify this in
>the ./configure options or does it need to be input into mm_cfg.py
>somewhere?

It isn't a ./configure option. It is an mm_cfg.py option. See SMTPHOST
and SMTPPORT in Defaults.py for info.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From forrie at forrie.com  Wed Jun 29 01:48:45 2005
From: forrie at forrie.com (Forrest Aldrich)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 19:48:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to specify alternate port in
 ./configure--mailhost= ?
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200506281437280171873a0c67@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200506281437280171873a0c67@msapiro>
Message-ID: <42C1E1DD.6080108@forrie.com>

I was referring to the ./configure option:

--with-mailhost      specify the hostname part for outgoing email

Though I put your suggested fixes in there and that seems to work, too.

What is this configure option - or is it just a switch that can be
overidden in mm_cfg.py.


Thanks.


Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Forrest Aldrich wrote:
>
>  
>
>>We're running a special MTA on a different port, and I would like to
>>point the mailman instance to that.   Is it possible to specify this in
>>the ./configure options or does it need to be input into mm_cfg.py
>>somewhere?
>>    
>>
>
>It isn't a ./configure option. It is an mm_cfg.py option. See SMTPHOST
>and SMTPPORT in Defaults.py for info.
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>  
>


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Jun 29 02:13:55 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:13:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to specify alternate port
	in./configure--mailhost= ?
In-Reply-To: <42C1E1DD.6080108@forrie.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506281713550531873a0dea@msapiro>

Forrest Aldrich wrote:

>I was referring to the ./configure option:
>
>--with-mailhost      specify the hostname part for outgoing email


This option sets the value in Defaults.py for DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST which
in turn sets the domain part of e-mail addresses that appear in
outgoing mail and on web pages. E.g. the envelope sender is set to
<listname>-bounces@<this_value>.

It has nothing to do with the host for the outgoing SMTP server.

>
>Though I put your suggested fixes in there and that seems to work, too.
>
>What is this configure option - or is it just a switch that can be
>overidden in mm_cfg.py.

See above.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From gstarnes at is-net.com  Wed Jun 29 18:57:40 2005
From: gstarnes at is-net.com (Gerry Starnes)
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:57:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing attachments, keeping html
Message-ID: <42C2D304.7000902@is-net.com>

I am interested in disallowing attachments (documents, images), but want 
to enable use of html formatting such as bold and color. The FAQ 
addresses html attachments only that I have seen. I have tried a variety 
of settings, but haven't hit the right combination. I'd appreciate any help.

Gerry


From mrm at medicine.wisc.edu  Wed Jun 29 19:08:08 2005
From: mrm at medicine.wisc.edu (Michael Masse)
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:08:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stripping attachments but have them available for
	download?
Message-ID: <s2c28f38.037@gwmail.medicine.wisc.edu>

Is there any sort of filter that can have mailman strip attachments, make them available for http download, and put a little blurb in the email stating the URL?  I'm trying to prevent the same document from being stored in 5000 mailboxes as well as being virus and spam checked 5000 times everytime an announcement is made.   The senders refuse to learn how to do this manually.

Mike




From forrie at forrie.com  Wed Jun 29 20:53:25 2005
From: forrie at forrie.com (Forrest Aldrich)
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:53:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] NNTP gatewaying
Message-ID: <42C2EE25.3020006@forrie.com>

I just set up Mailman 2.1.5 with the intention of utilizing the
NNTP/Mailman gatewaying process.

>From what I see, it doesn't use any authentication.   The server we're
using on the other side is Typhoon, and I've asked if it can just permit
the IP; however, I'd just prefer to have authentication going on like
everyone else.

Did I miss something?


Thanks.



From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Wed Jun 29 22:23:18 2005
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 05:23:18 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stripping attachments but have them available
 for	download?
In-Reply-To: <s2c28f38.037@gwmail.medicine.wisc.edu>
References: <s2c28f38.037@gwmail.medicine.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <42C30336.7050208@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi,

What is your version of mailman?  In mailman-2.1.6, there is a parameter 
to achieve this in the nondigest section of admin interface as 
`scrub_nondigest'.  Set this `Yes'.

Cheers,

Michael Masse wrote:
> Is there any sort of filter that can have mailman strip attachments, make them available for http download, and put a little blurb in the email stating the URL?  I'm trying to prevent the same document from being stored in 5000 mailboxes as well as being virus and spam checked 5000 times everytime an announcement is made.   The senders refuse to learn how to do this manually.
> 
> Mike
> 

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 30 02:15:35 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:15:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] removing attachments, keeping html
In-Reply-To: <42C2D304.7000902@is-net.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020050629171535078139462870@msapiro>

Gerry Starnes wrote:

>I am interested in disallowing attachments (documents, images), but want 
>to enable use of html formatting such as bold and color. The FAQ 
>addresses html attachments only that I have seen. I have tried a variety 
>of settings, but haven't hit the right combination. I'd appreciate any help.

There is a basic design decision in content filtering that makes this
difficult. Namely, after filtering, only the first remaining sub-part
from a multipart/alternative part is retained.

What this means in practice is if you want to allow both text/plain
parts and text/html parts, the only way to get html to the list is to
insure that the MUA (e-mail client) that creates the post creates an
html only message, not a multipart/alternative message with both
text/plain and text/html sub-parts.

If you want Mailman content filtering to pass the html part from a
multipart/alternative post, the only way to do this is to disallow
text/plain and require everyone to post html, or to turn off content
filtering and allow everything.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Thu Jun 30 06:11:50 2005
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 00:11:50 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error on email confirmations on 2.1.5
Message-ID: <42C37106.8030204@wingfoot.org>

Jun 29 23:28:45 caduceus postfix/pipe[36446]: 9FC4F1F4409: 
to=<listname-confirm+blahblahblah at lists.wingfoot.org>, relay=mailman, 
delay=0, status=bounced (Command died with status 1: 
"/usr/local/mailman/postfix-to-mailman-2.1.py". Command output:   File 
"/usr/local/mailman/scripts/confirm", line 64     
sys.exit(MailExits.mailexits.EX_NOUSER.)
             ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax )

(The SyntaxError is pointing at the exit in "sys.exit(MailExits..)" 
error...)

I'm running Mailman 2.1.5 on FreeBSD 4.11-RELEASE, with Python 2.4.1. 
The list in question does actually exist. I sent the user an invite to 
join. In the meantime I told her to just go ahead and confirm via the 
web-link.

Thanks in advance..

Best,
--Glenn

-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary 
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." 
          ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 30 07:29:49 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 22:29:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error on email confirmations on 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <42C37106.8030204@wingfoot.org>
Message-ID: <PC174020050629222949081238ac939d@msapiro>

Glenn Sieb wrote:

>Jun 29 23:28:45 caduceus postfix/pipe[36446]: 9FC4F1F4409: 
>to=<listname-confirm+blahblahblah at lists.wingfoot.org>, relay=mailman, 
>delay=0, status=bounced (Command died with status 1: 
>"/usr/local/mailman/postfix-to-mailman-2.1.py". Command output:   File 
>"/usr/local/mailman/scripts/confirm", line 64     
>sys.exit(MailExits.mailexits.EX_NOUSER.)
>             ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax )
>
>(The SyntaxError is pointing at the exit in "sys.exit(MailExits..)" 
>error...)
>
>I'm running Mailman 2.1.5 on FreeBSD 4.11-RELEASE, with Python 2.4.1. 

Something's strange here. The 2.1.5 distribution scripts/confirm only
has 62 lines and there are only 2 sys.exit() calls and they are both
"sys.exit(1)".

In fact, "grep -ir mailexits *" doesn't find anything anywhere in the
Mailman 2.1.5 distribution.

If this Mailman is somebody's package, I think you need to contact the
packager.

That said, I think the actual syntax error is the final period in
'MailExits.mailexits.EX_NOUSER.'.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Thu Jun 30 07:39:08 2005
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 01:39:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error on email confirmations on 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <PC174020050629222949081238ac939d@msapiro>
References: <PC174020050629222949081238ac939d@msapiro>
Message-ID: <42C3857C.9040206@wingfoot.org>

Mark Sapiro said the following on 6/30/2005 1:29 AM:

>Something's strange here. The 2.1.5 distribution scripts/confirm only
>has 62 lines and there are only 2 sys.exit() calls and they are both
>"sys.exit(1)".
>
>In fact, "grep -ir mailexits *" doesn't find anything anywhere in the
>Mailman 2.1.5 distribution.
>
>If this Mailman is somebody's package, I think you need to contact the
>packager.
>  
>
Nope. I install from source, with the htdig/archiver patches. My confirm 
script is 89 lines long (with comments).

>That said, I think the actual syntax error is the final period in
>'MailExits.mailexits.EX_NOUSER.'.
>  
>
Thanks--removing that period just after "NOUSER" fixes the problem. :)

Below is the confirm script, for perusal.

Thanks!
Best,
--Glenn

$ cat /usr/local/mailman/scripts/confirm
# -*- python -*-
#
# Copyright (C) 2002 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
# modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
# as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
# of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
#
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
# GNU General Public License for more details.
#
# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
# along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
# Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA.

"""Simple confirm via VERP-ish sender.

Called by the wrapper, stdin is the mail message, and argv[1] is the name
of the target mailing list.

Errors are redirected to logs/errors.
"""

# Set the default exit status to be used  with the following
# variable. This is the value which will be used in the event of
# our not even being able to import modules and do things in a
# controlled way.
# The installed default is 75 = MailExits.mailexits.EX_TEMPFAIL
# This should tell Sendmail to keep keep the mail locally and
# try again. This should give us time to try and fix the gross
# installation problem without losing or rejecting all the mail
# which is arriving.
DEFAULT_EXIT_STATUS = 75
# If we cannot import sys then we aren't going to control what
# sendmail does with the mail
import sys
try:
    import paths
    from Mailman import MailExits
    from Mailman import mm_cfg
    DEFAULT_EXIT_STATUS = mm_cfg.DEFAULT_MAILER_EXIT_STATUS
    from Mailman.Logging.Utils import LogStdErr
    LogStdErr('error', 'confirm', tee_to_real_stderr=0)
    import traceback

    try:
        from Mailman import Utils
        from Mailman.i18n import _
        from Mailman.Queue.sbcache import get_switchboard


        def main():
            try:
                listname = sys.argv[1]
            except IndexError:
                print >> sys.stderr, _('got no listname.')
                sys.exit(MailExits.mailexits.EX_TEMPFAIL)
            # Make sure the list exists
            if not Utils.list_exists(listname):
                print >> sys.stderr, _('list not found: %(listname)s')
                sys.exit(MailExits.mailexits.EX_NOUSER)
            # Immediately queue the message for the bounce/cmd qrunner 
to process.
            # The advantage to this approach is that messages should 
never get lost --
            # some MTAs have a hard limit to the time a filter prog can 
run.  Postfix
            # is a good example; if the limit is hit, the proc is 
SIGKILL'd giving us
            # no chance to save the message.
            cmdq = get_switchboard(mm_cfg.CMDQUEUE_DIR)
            cmdq.enqueue(sys.stdin.read(), listname=listname, toconfirm=1,
                         _plaintext=1)


        if __name__ == '__main__':
            main()

    except SystemExit:
        raise
    except StandardError:
        sys.stderr.write("unexpected error handling: %s" % str(sys.argv))
        traceback.print_exc(None, sys.stderr)
        sys.exit(DEFAULT_EXIT_STATUS)
except SystemExit:
    # we do not want to catch SystemExits
    raise
except StandardError:
    # But for all others take the default exit status
    sys.exit(DEFAULT_EXIT_STATUS)

-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary 
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." 
          ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759



From toutoune60 at hotmail.com  Thu Jun 30 14:00:10 2005
From: toutoune60 at hotmail.com (M@tthias)
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:00:10 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] =?iso-8859-1?q?Cr=E9ation_premi=E8re_liste?=
Message-ID: <BAY103-DAV11F3DA3F3E4B1F2C9471BCC2E30@phx.gbl>

Salut ;)
Mon h?b?rgeur sur mon serveur ? d?j? pr?configur? Mailman. Seulement quand
j'arrive ? l'url : http://mon_serveur/mailman/admin/, je n'ai qu'une
possibilit?, celle de "create a new mailing list", ce qui me va tout ? fait!

Seulement ? la cr?ation, j'ai le message "Error: You are not authorized to
create new mailing lists". 
Ca me parait logique puisque cette une url en libre acc?s... mais que
dois-je faire pour pouvoir cr?er ma premi?re liste?! 
Merci ? tous!


From michel.remacle at nrb.be  Thu Jun 30 14:54:57 2005
From: michel.remacle at nrb.be (Michel Remacle)
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:54:57 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Could I synchronise while it's sending?
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1120135738.17475.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <0IIW00HGFEJGFK@mail.nrb.be>

Hello,

(I'm new to this and I speak french so...)

I would like to know if it's possible to:

1- add 70.000 people to a list (ok)
2- send a message to all of them (ok, takes about 8 hours on my server)
3- synchronise before the 8 hours have passed ??

E.G.: Knowing that it takes +/- 8 hours to send the 70.000 messages, can I
synchronise my list before the end of the 8 hours?

Thanks for reading,
Michel



From mreck at netdiscounter.de  Thu Jun 30 15:59:16 2005
From: mreck at netdiscounter.de (Michael Reck [Netdiscounter GmbH])
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:59:16 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Virtual Domains - Multiple Installs
Message-ID: <KLEGJJOLGEECFMCPHMMNIEECDEAA.mreck@netdiscounter.de>

Hi List,

is there be any how-to for a multiple installs mm server.
I need listnames which are same for multiple domains.
I decided to give every costumer a lists.domain.tld entry with MX
Record. The first Installation runs like hell but the following
with another Hostname fails.
The Incoming Mails gets always delivered to root at fqhostname.
The Servername is equivalent to the first list hostname (
lists.netdiscounter.de).
I think this is the reason why the first list works.
I use Postfix as the MTA.
The mm installation is done with different prefixes, different usernames,
different listurls and with different mailhost.

Any ideas or links ?

Greets
Michael



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 30 16:41:12 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 07:41:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error on email confirmations on 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <42C3857C.9040206@wingfoot.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200506300741120468c1b317e0@msapiro>

Glenn Sieb wrote:

>Nope. I install from source, with the htdig/archiver patches. My confirm 
>script is 89 lines long (with comments).

The fact remains that your confirm script is not the one from the 2.1.5
source distribution. The diff is as follows and it is not from either
htdig-2.1.5-0.1.patch or indexing-2.1.5-0.1.patch.

--- mailman-2.1.5/scripts/confirm       2002-03-13 22:04:08.000000000
-0800
+++ confirm     2005-06-30 07:28:04.875000000 -0700
@@ -24,29 +24,44 @@
 Errors are redirected to logs/errors.
 """

+# Set the default exit status to be used  with the following
+# variable. This is the value which will be used in the event of
+# our not even being able to import modules and do things in a
+# controlled way.
+# The installed default is 75 = MailExits.mailexits.EX_TEMPFAIL
+# This should tell Sendmail to keep keep the mail locally and
+# try again. This should give us time to try and fix the gross
+# installation problem without losing or rejecting all the mail
+# which is arriving.
+DEFAULT_EXIT_STATUS = 75
+# If we cannot import sys then we aren't going to control what
+# sendmail does with the mail
 import sys
+try:
+    import paths
+    from Mailman import MailExits
+    from Mailman import mm_cfg
+    DEFAULT_EXIT_STATUS = mm_cfg.DEFAULT_MAILER_EXIT_STATUS
+    from Mailman.Logging.Utils import LogStdErr
+    LogStdErr('error', 'confirm', tee_to_real_stderr=0)
+    import traceback

-import paths
-from Mailman import mm_cfg
-from Mailman import Utils
-from Mailman.i18n import _
-from Mailman.Queue.sbcache import get_switchboard
-from Mailman.Logging.Utils import LogStdErr
-
-LogStdErr('error', 'confirm')
-
+    try:
+        from Mailman import Utils
+        from Mailman.i18n import _
+        from Mailman.Queue.sbcache import get_switchboard

 ?
-def main():
+        def main():
     try:
         listname = sys.argv[1]
     except IndexError:
-        print >> sys.stderr, _('confirm script got no listname.')
-        sys.exit(1)
+                print >> sys.stderr, _('got no listname.')
+                sys.exit(MailExits.mailexits.EX_TEMPFAIL)
     # Make sure the list exists
     if not Utils.list_exists(listname):
-        print >> sys.stderr, _('confirm script, list not found:
%(listname)s')
-        sys.exit(1)
+                print >> sys.stderr, _('list not found: %(listname)s')
+                sys.exit(MailExits.mailexits.EX_NOUSER)
     # Immediately queue the message for the bounce/cmd qrunner to
process.
     # The advantage to this approach is that messages should never get
lost --
     # some MTAs have a hard limit to the time a filter prog can run. 
Postfix
@@ -57,6 +72,18 @@
                  _plaintext=1)


-?
-if __name__ == '__main__':
+        if __name__ == '__main__':
     main()
+
+    except SystemExit:
+        raise
+    except StandardError:
+        sys.stderr.write("unexpected error handling: %s" %
str(sys.argv))
+        traceback.print_exc(None, sys.stderr)
+        sys.exit(DEFAULT_EXIT_STATUS)
+except SystemExit:
+    # we do not want to catch SystemExits
+    raise
+except StandardError:
+    # But for all others take the default exit status
+    sys.exit(DEFAULT_EXIT_STATUS)

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mike at gibbs-family.org  Thu Jun 30 16:49:02 2005
From: mike at gibbs-family.org (Michael GIbbs)
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 10:49:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix and mailman issues
Message-ID: <42C4065E.9000607@gibbs-family.org>

Greetings,

    I have been trying to integrate Mailman 2.1.6 with Postfix  2.2.4 
with no luck.  I have followed the instructions on the Mailman
website for Postfix, and I have installed Postfix-style Virtual 
Domains.  The lists domain name used is different then the mail servers
actual domain.

    When I send mail to <username>@virtual-domain.com, it gets sent to 
the right mail address (which is NOT located locally).  If,
however, a mail is sent for an alias under mailman 
<list>@virtual-domain.com, I get the following:

Jun 30 02:11:05 mail postfix/smtp[27605]: E7118340227: 
to=<|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post gamer at domain.com>, o
rig_to=<gamer at virtual-domain.com>, relay=mail.domain.com[ipaddress 
removed], delay=1, status=bounced (host
mail.domain.com[ipaddress removed] said: 550 5.7.1 
<"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post gamer"@domain.com>... Cannot 
mail dire
ctly to programs (in reply to RCPT TO command))

Here is my Postfix main.cf:

#
# Postfix Basic Configuration Settings
#
myhostname = mail.domain.com
mydomain = domain.com
myorigin = $mydomain
mydestination = $myhostname localhost.$mydomain localhost
mynetworks = <ipaddress removed>/29
relay_domains = /etc/postfix/relay_domains
readme_directory = no
sample_directory = /etc/postfix
sendmail_path = /usr/sbin/sendmail
html_directory = no
setgid_group = postdrop
command_directory = /usr/sbin
manpage_directory = /usr/local/man
daemon_directory = /usr/libexec/postfix
newaliases_path = /usr/bin/newaliases
mailq_path = /usr/bin/mailq
queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix
mail_owner = postfix
unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550
local_recipient_maps = $virtual_alias_maps $alias_maps unix:passwd.byname

smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_sasl_authenticated 
permit_mynetworks check_relay_domains
smtpd_sender_restrictions =  permit_sasl_authenticated permit_mynetworks 
reject_sender_login_mismatch

#  Map config Settings
alias_database = hash:/etc/postfix/aliases, 
hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/aliases, hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases

#virtual map config
virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual, 
hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman

# sasl config
broken_sasl_auth_clients = yes
smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
smtpd_sasl_security_options = noanonymous

# tls config
smtp_use_tls = yes
smtpd_use_tls = yes
smtp_tls_note_starttls_offer = yes
smtpd_tls_key_file = /etc/postfix/ssl/post.pem
smtpd_tls_cert_file = /etc/postfix/ssl/post.pem
smtpd_tls_CAfile = /etc/postfix/ssl/post.pem
smtpd_tls_loglevel = 3
smtpd_tls_received_header = yes
smtpd_tls_session_cache_timeout = 3600s
tls_random_source = dev:/dev/urandom


Here is my Mailman mm_cfg.py:
MTA='postfix'
POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['virtual-domain.com']



Mike Gibbs



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Jun 30 17:03:46 2005
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 08:03:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Could I synchronise while it's sending?
In-Reply-To: <0IIW00HGFEJGFK@mail.nrb.be>
Message-ID: <PC174020050630080346092123689aa7@msapiro>

Michel Remacle wrote:
>
>I would like to know if it's possible to:
>
>1- add 70.000 people to a list (ok)
>2- send a message to all of them (ok, takes about 8 hours on my server)
>3- synchronise before the 8 hours have passed ??
>
>E.G.: Knowing that it takes +/- 8 hours to send the 70.000 messages, can I
>synchronise my list before the end of the 8 hours?

Yes. At the beginning of the 8 hours when Mailman first begins to send,
it has already built a list of the recipients of the message.
Subsequent changes to the list's membership do not affect this.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Poster at aurora.cotse.net  Thu Jun 30 22:06:33 2005
From: Poster at aurora.cotse.net (Poster)
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:06:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] NNTP gatewaying
In-Reply-To: <42C2EE25.3020006@forrie.com>
References: <42C2EE25.3020006@forrie.com>
Message-ID: <MTEyMDE2MTk5My5hdXJvcmE.1120161993@dissimulo.com>


Forrest Aldrich said:
> I just set up Mailman 2.1.5 with the intention of utilizing the
> NNTP/Mailman gatewaying process.
>
>>From what I see, it doesn't use any authentication.   The server
>> we're
> using on the other side is Typhoon, and I've asked if it can just
> permit
> the IP; however, I'd just prefer to have authentication going on like
> everyone else.
>
> Did I miss something?

Good question. I've looked through the web interface and didn't see
anything about authorization. I also can't get the NNTP gatewaying to
work at all. I'm not sure if there's something I'm doing wrong or my
choice of public access servers is just trash.

~P



From ifetch at du.edu  Thu Jun 30 22:20:32 2005
From: ifetch at du.edu (Ivan Fetch)
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:20:32 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] postfix and mailman issues
In-Reply-To: <42C4065E.9000607@gibbs-family.org>
References: <42C4065E.9000607@gibbs-family.org>
Message-ID: <20050630111116.M23311@tnetnzry.hgf.qh.rqh>

Hi Michael,

    It sounds like you may be putting your Mailman aliases (pipes to the 
mailman binary) in your /etc/postfix/virtual file.  Mailman's Postfix 
virtual domain integration populates a Mailman specific virtual, and 
aliases file, located in /usr/local/mailman/data.

    If you haven't done this already, you might want to run 
/usr/local/mailman/bin/genaliases
    to create the Mailman virtual-mailman and aliases files that Postfix 
will use (you already have correct lines for this in the Postfix main.cf 
file).

    When running genaliases do you get any errors about running postalias 
or postmap?  You may need to set the variables POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD and 
POSTFIX_MAP_CMD in the Mailman mm_cfg.py file, so mailman knows where the 
postalias and postmap commands reside.



    In terms of the error you refer to in your message below, I don't 
believe that you can have pipes to commands in your Postfix 
/etc/postfix/virtual domain map.  Instead you need to have (this is what 
mailman does  - see above):

    Your Postfix virtual file might contain:
ListName at VirtualDomain.com ListName
ListName-admin at VirtualDomain.com ListName-admin
ListName-bounces at VirtualDomain.com ListName-bounces
ListName-confirm at VirtualDomain.com ListName-confirm
ListName-join at VirtualDomain.com ListName-join
ListName-leave at VirtualDomain.com ListName-leave
ListName-owner at VirtualDomain.com ListName-owner
ListName-request at VirtualDomain.com ListName-request
ListName-subscribe at VirtualDomain.com ListName-subscribe
ListName-unsubscribe at VirtualDomain.com ListName-unsubscribe


    Your Postfix aliases file might then contain:
## ListName mailing list
ListName: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post ListName"
ListName-admin: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin ListName"
ListName-bounces: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces ListName"
ListName-confirm: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm ListName"
ListName-join: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join ListName"
ListName-leave: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave ListName"
ListName-owner: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner ListName"
ListName-request: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request ListName"
ListName-subscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe ListName"
ListName-unsubscribe: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe ListName"



    Let me know if I am not making sense, or if you still have problems, 
I'm happy to try to help.

Thanks,
Ivan Fetch.

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005, Michael GIbbs wrote:

> Greetings,
>
>    I have been trying to integrate Mailman 2.1.6 with Postfix  2.2.4
> with no luck.  I have followed the instructions on the Mailman
> website for Postfix, and I have installed Postfix-style Virtual
> Domains.  The lists domain name used is different then the mail servers
> actual domain.
>
>    When I send mail to <username>@virtual-domain.com, it gets sent to
> the right mail address (which is NOT located locally).  If,
> however, a mail is sent for an alias under mailman
> <list>@virtual-domain.com, I get the following:
>
> Jun 30 02:11:05 mail postfix/smtp[27605]: E7118340227:
> to=<|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post gamer at domain.com>, o
> rig_to=<gamer at virtual-domain.com>, relay=mail.domain.com[ipaddress
> removed], delay=1, status=bounced (host
> mail.domain.com[ipaddress removed] said: 550 5.7.1
> <"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post gamer"@domain.com>... Cannot
> mail dire
> ctly to programs (in reply to RCPT TO command))
>
> Here is my Postfix main.cf:
>
> #
> # Postfix Basic Configuration Settings
> #
> myhostname = mail.domain.com
> mydomain = domain.com
> myorigin = $mydomain
> mydestination = $myhostname localhost.$mydomain localhost
> mynetworks = <ipaddress removed>/29
> relay_domains = /etc/postfix/relay_domains
> readme_directory = no
> sample_directory = /etc/postfix
> sendmail_path = /usr/sbin/sendmail
> html_directory = no
> setgid_group = postdrop
> command_directory = /usr/sbin
> manpage_directory = /usr/local/man
> daemon_directory = /usr/libexec/postfix
> newaliases_path = /usr/bin/newaliases
> mailq_path = /usr/bin/mailq
> queue_directory = /var/spool/postfix
> mail_owner = postfix
> unknown_local_recipient_reject_code = 550
> local_recipient_maps = $virtual_alias_maps $alias_maps unix:passwd.byname
>
> smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_sasl_authenticated
> permit_mynetworks check_relay_domains
> smtpd_sender_restrictions =  permit_sasl_authenticated permit_mynetworks
> reject_sender_login_mismatch
>
> #  Map config Settings
> alias_database = hash:/etc/postfix/aliases,
> hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
> alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/aliases, hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases
>
> #virtual map config
> virtual_alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/virtual,
> hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/virtual-mailman
>
> # sasl config
> broken_sasl_auth_clients = yes
> smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes
> smtpd_sasl_security_options = noanonymous
>
> # tls config
> smtp_use_tls = yes
> smtpd_use_tls = yes
> smtp_tls_note_starttls_offer = yes
> smtpd_tls_key_file = /etc/postfix/ssl/post.pem
> smtpd_tls_cert_file = /etc/postfix/ssl/post.pem
> smtpd_tls_CAfile = /etc/postfix/ssl/post.pem
> smtpd_tls_loglevel = 3
> smtpd_tls_received_header = yes
> smtpd_tls_session_cache_timeout = 3600s
> tls_random_source = dev:/dev/urandom
>
>
> Here is my Mailman mm_cfg.py:
> MTA='postfix'
> POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = ['virtual-domain.com']
>
>
>
> Mike Gibbs
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ifetch%40du.edu
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>
>