[Mailman-Users] Installation Help Needed

[r.barrett at openinfo.demon.co.uk]

bob at bergey.net wrote:
> I've been running mailing lists (currently about 40 of them) for more than
> six years using Macjordomo as the list server, SIMS as the mail server,
> currently running on an old Mac 7600/OS 9.1 on a DSL connection with static
> IP. But for several reasons, I need to make some significant changes as far
> as the list server is concerned, and Mailman seems to have everything I
> need. 
> 
> Except I need some help to get started. I'd prefer running Mailman on my own
> server rather than use another provider. What kind of hardware power do I
> need for Mailman? Some of my lists generate as many as 100 messages a day to
> 600 or more subscribers -- not a huge amount, but not insignificant either.
> On average I deliver somewhere between 75,000 and 150,000 individual
> messages/day. I'm considering one of these three choices for hardware:
> 
>  - I have a beige Mac G3/300 capable of running OSX 10.2.5 that
>    I could dedicate to Mailman -- but I'm wondering if that's
>    powerful enough for my needs?
> 

If you've got the machine available then I would try this approach as a start.

If you are maintaining the quoted level of traffic using a 7600 with presumably not much better than a PPC604E at 180Mhz then a G3/300 should eat the problem assuming you've got a resonable amount of real memory and disk space. Well it would with LinuxPPC, I'm not sure about Mac OS X; my old iBook ran like a dog with early Mac OS X, despite having the maximum RAM supported by the hardware and disk upgraded from 3.2 to 30 Gb, but it soldiers on as personal site web server and gateway running YellowDog Linux.
 
>  - I could buy a new eMac G4/700 for under $1,000 (I'd really like
>    to stay under $1,000 if I have to buy a new machine), also
>    running OSX 10.2.5.
>

For a server I wouldn't go this route even though I have been a Mac user since orginal Mac Plus days and still quite like using them - for the right task that is.
 
>  - I could buy a PC running Linux (?) -- which I know nothing
>    about, but I guess it's not impossible to learn <G>. I've got a
>    spare monitor I could use, and I assume I could buy a machine
>    for under $1,000?
> 

A comodity PC is, IMHO, likely to give you the best bang for your buck. a 1Ghz or better CPU 256Mb main memory and 60 Gb disk is going to cost you say $600 or less - in the UK I wouldn't be paying any more than 400 pounds sterling in the present market. For this sort of server work you probably do not want to pay premium pricing for 2Ghz+ CPUs and I suspect you do not need to venture into expensive SCSI disk drives either; plain commodity IDE will server. You do not need fancy sound, multimedia and graphics cards, although I would get a combo DVD reader/CD-writer or better. Also you can just buy the hardware, without paying the Gates Tax for a Windows OS, just to chuck those installation CDs in a drawer.

A decent Linux distribution will give you all the Open Software you want and if you are really tight for cash, and given you have a DSL line, you can download. That's OK for upgrades but I would spring for the DVD/CD distribution media for a reputable Linux distribution to get started. 

Installing modern Linux distributions is much easier than of yore and I personally find that, once over the initial learning curve (with the help of a book on Linux Admin for Beginners in my case), doing systems admin is more straightforward with Linux than I suspect it is with Mac OS X; some tasks are not that simple and trying to wrap a GUI around them tends, for me, to cause more problems than the GUI solves. I find the installing software on Mac OS X is a pain and because I've ultimately got no idea what is being put where by the damned installer; yes, I guess I am too lazy to learn the minutiae of Mac OS X which is after all just UNIX with a GUI slathered on top. By comparison, installing from RPMs with Linux is easy and a simple command will tell me exactly what files the RPM installed as part of any given package.

> Which would you recommend? (I'm a long-time Mac user -- since 1985 -- and am
> very comfortable working in the Macintosh environment, so I'd prefer running
> Mailman on a Mac if that's not too unreasonable or disadvantageous. But I'm
> open to other options.)
> 
> Also, I've downloaded the Mailman software, read through most of the install
> documentation and the online FAQ, and although I know enough to set up and
> run Macjordomo, SIMS, and do things like design and maintain my own Web
> sites, the Install file of Mailman is very intimidating to me and I'm over
> my head, I'm afraid ... so I'm wondering if it's possible to hire someone to
> install Mailman for me, and assuming it is, what would be a reasonable cost
> to expect to pay for installation? Once Mailman is installed and running, I
> expect to be able to create, configure and manage my lists without much (if
> any) further help. 
> 

If you take a Linux distribution like say Suse 8.2 Professional(http://www.suse.com) it comes with Mailman 2.1.1 (the latest stable release), and a choice of MTAs (Sendmail and Postfix) ready built for binary installation when you install the OS to start with or at some time later. The same is true with RedHat (http://www.redhat.com, Debian (http://www.debian.com) and others, but I'm less familiar with those; a quick look at web sites showed Debian offering rather ancient MM 2.0.11 or 2.0.13 packages and Redhat 9 with the superceded MM 2.1

> Oh, one other possible option ... I lease space on several UNIX servers for
> Web sites with a few dozen different domains -- would running Mailman on one
> of those be a possibility? I have shell access but can't do things like
> restart the server on my own (I don't have physical access to those
> servers).
> 

The problem you are likely to have with this is that you will probably need root access to fully install Mailman. You would probably also need to set things up so that the mail aliases associated with your lists are recognised by the MTA on the server and, again, this usually means having root access at some point.

Best of luck with whichever solution you chose.

> Thanks for any help you can offer.
> 
> Bob
> 
> P.S. Thanks to Kathleen Weber, if she's still on the list, for her post in
> the archives on installing Mailman on a Mac running OSX -- very encouraging
> (if also a little intimidating) <G>.
> -- 
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